Scott Kramer on Leading Through Profound Crisis in Your Church

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unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy everybody welcome to the unsummon airy podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here and I'm just so honored that you took and I'm just so honored that you took and I'm just so honored that you took some time out to be with us today we've some time out to be with us today we've some time out to be with us today we've got a great interview I've actually got a great interview I've actually got a great interview I've actually really been looking forward to this really been looking forward to this really been looking forward to this interview for quite a while we've got interview for quite a while we've got interview for quite a while we've got Scott Kramer from GT Church this is a Scott Kramer from GT Church this is a Scott Kramer from GT Church this is a fantastic Church you should be following fantastic Church you should be following fantastic Church you should be following it's in Pennsylvania two locations it's in Pennsylvania two locations it's in Pennsylvania two locations currently in West Lawn and Kutztown I've currently in West Lawn and Kutztown I've currently in West Lawn and Kutztown I've actually had an opportunity to be at actually had an opportunity to be at actually had an opportunity to be at both these these locations is this both these these locations is this both these these locations is this really a fantastic Church Scott is the really a fantastic Church Scott is the really a fantastic Church Scott is the executive pastor at GT Church and executive pastor at GT Church and executive pastor at GT Church and oversees life groups and spiritual oversees life groups and spiritual oversees life groups and spiritual coaching and and the school of ministry coaching and and the school of ministry coaching and and the school of ministry a really fantastic so Scott welcome to a really fantastic so Scott welcome to a really fantastic so Scott welcome to the show all right thank you rich glad the show all right thank you rich glad the show all right thank you rich glad to be here what does that tell us a bit

to be here what does that tell us a bit to be here what does that tell us a bit about the church if people were to show about the church if people were to show about the church if people were to show up this weekend up this weekend up this weekend what would they expect give us a kind of what would they expect give us a kind of what would they expect give us a kind of a flavor for the church yeah we are we a flavor for the church yeah we are we a flavor for the church yeah we are we are glad tidings Assembly of God Church are glad tidings Assembly of God Church are glad tidings Assembly of God Church known as GT Church in our community we known as GT Church in our community we known as GT Church in our community we are actually a 91 year old church but a are actually a 91 year old church but a are actually a 91 year old church but a very I think you'd come here and have a very I think you'd come here and have a very I think you'd come here and have a very contemporary feel I think if you very contemporary feel I think if you very contemporary feel I think if you think of like a you know kind of a think of like a you know kind of a think of like a you know kind of a hybrid of elevation or Hillsong worship hybrid of elevation or Hillsong worship hybrid of elevation or Hillsong worship a kind of style and our aim with our a kind of style and our aim with our a kind of style and our aim with our message is always to make it relevant message is always to make it relevant message is always to make it relevant you know we've heard people say you know you know we've heard people say you know you know we've heard people say you know if I can't use it on Monday we won't say if I can't use it on Monday we won't say if I can't use it on Monday we won't say it on Sunday we really aim for about a it on Sunday we really aim for about a it on Sunday we really aim for about a I'm a 40-minute message that's very I'm a 40-minute message that's very I'm a 40-minute message that's very relevant and deals with real life issues relevant and deals with real life issues relevant and deals with real life issues we have a teaching team approach our we have a teaching team approach our we have a teaching team approach our lead lead lead pastor Brian Cook is our lead pastor and pastor Brian Cook is our lead pastor and pastor Brian Cook is our lead pastor and he speaks about probably 25 to 30 times he speaks about probably 25 to 30 times he speaks about probably 25 to 30 times a year I have the honor of being part of a year I have the honor of being part of a year I have the honor of being part of the teaching team and as well as several the teaching team and as well as several the teaching team and as well as several others so it's it's a it's a church of others so it's it's a it's a church of others so it's it's a it's a church of about 3,000 on the weekend we get to about 3,000 on the weekend we get to about 3,000 on the weekend we get to Sunday morning services at our main Sunday morning services at our main Sunday morning services at our main campus at West Lawn and then our cut campus at West Lawn and then our cut campus at West Lawn and then our cut sound camp is about 20 minutes away has sound camp is about 20 minutes away has sound camp is about 20 minutes away has a Sunday morning service at 10:00 a.m.

a Sunday morning service at 10:00 a.m. a Sunday morning service at 10:00 a.m. as well fantastic yeah this is a great as well fantastic yeah this is a great as well fantastic yeah this is a great church and if you ever are in that part church and if you ever are in that part church and if you ever are in that part of the world make sure you get a chance of the world make sure you get a chance of the world make sure you get a chance to to visit now a couple of years ago to to visit now a couple of years ago to to visit now a couple of years ago something pretty profound happen at your something pretty profound happen at your something pretty profound happen at your church that we want to kind of lean into church that we want to kind of lean into church that we want to kind of lean into and get your perspective on why don't and get your perspective on why don't and get your perspective on why don't you tell us a little bit of that story you tell us a little bit of that story you tell us a little bit of that story yeah I'll start by telling the story yeah I'll start by telling the story yeah I'll start by telling the story where I was you know it's kind of like where I was you know it's kind of like where I was you know it's kind of like one for for our church rich this moment one for for our church rich this moment one for for our church rich this moment was kind of like in a very small sense was kind of like in a very small sense was kind of like in a very small sense of 9/11 where do you know where you were of 9/11 where do you know where you were of 9/11 where do you know where you were when you hurry news in that regard when you hurry news in that regard when you hurry news in that regard obviously I was at a pizza shop Sunday obviously I was at a pizza shop Sunday obviously I was at a pizza shop Sunday afternoon after my my sons had a afternoon after my my sons had a afternoon after my my sons had a baseball tournament in a nearby town and baseball tournament in a nearby town and baseball tournament in a nearby town and my phone rang from our facility director my phone rang from our facility director my phone rang from our facility director and he is also the brother-in-law of our and he is also the brother-in-law of our and he is also the brother-in-law of our lead pastor and John called me and as lead pastor and John called me and as lead pastor and John called me and as soon as I picked up the phone I was like soon as I picked up the phone I was like soon as I picked up the phone I was like hey John what's up he's like Scott he's hey John what's up he's like Scott he's hey John what's up he's like Scott he's like something awful has happened Bryan like something awful has happened Bryan like something awful has happened Bryan and Lynn were in a motorcycle accident and Lynn were in a motorcycle accident and Lynn were in a motorcycle accident and I'm like okay my so my face sinks my and I'm like okay my so my face sinks my and I'm like okay my so my face sinks my heart sinks and we're celebrating a heart sinks and we're celebrating a heart sinks and we're celebrating a trophy right we're with a whole bunch of trophy right we're with a whole bunch of trophy right we're with a whole bunch of families at this pizza shop and my heart families at this pizza shop and my heart families at this pizza shop and my heart is in my foot right now and I'm like is in my foot right now and I'm like is in my foot right now and I'm like John what happened he's like well they John what happened he's like well they John what happened he's like well they got hit head-on oh my goodness um we got hit head-on oh my goodness um we got hit head-on oh my goodness um we don't know many details he said we just don't know many details he said we just don't know many details he said we just know that they got hit head-on they've know that they got hit head-on they've know that they got hit head-on they've been I rush to the hospital he said and been I rush to the hospital he said and been I rush to the hospital he said and we think we already lost Landon mmm at we think we already lost Landon mmm at we think we already lost Landon mmm at which point of course I'm like ready to which point of course I'm like ready to which point of course I'm like ready to weep and cry and my wife sitting across weep and cry and my wife sitting across weep and cry and my wife sitting across the table having pizza is looking at me the table having pizza is looking at me the table having pizza is looking at me and she sees my face turning white she

and she sees my face turning white she and she sees my face turning white she sees the expression and when he said sees the expression and when he said sees the expression and when he said Scott we think we already lost Lynn I Scott we think we already lost Lynn I Scott we think we already lost Lynn I mean I just like you lose it you know mean I just like you lose it you know mean I just like you lose it you know it's just one of those moments you're it's just one of those moments you're it's just one of those moments you're like this is this happening like ricer like this is this happening like ricer like this is this happening like ricer real very surreal this can't be real and real very surreal this can't be real and real very surreal this can't be real and so I just I said John where are they I'm so I just I said John where are they I'm so I just I said John where are they I'm leaving right now so I we grab the kids leaving right now so I we grab the kids leaving right now so I we grab the kids we got three kids two boys and a little we got three kids two boys and a little we got three kids two boys and a little girl girl girl and I say Kate we got to go right away and I say Kate we got to go right away and I say Kate we got to go right away it's urgent and I just you know told the it's urgent and I just you know told the it's urgent and I just you know told the whole all the families at the pizza shop whole all the families at the pizza shop whole all the families at the pizza shop listen our pastor was in a horrible listen our pastor was in a horrible listen our pastor was in a horrible accident we got to go right away so I accident we got to go right away so I accident we got to go right away so I run to my parents house dropped the kids run to my parents house dropped the kids run to my parents house dropped the kids off we go to the hospital and and of off we go to the hospital and and of off we go to the hospital and and of course you know encountered by several course you know encountered by several course you know encountered by several others who were there already to only others who were there already to only others who were there already to only discover the worst imaginable thing that discover the worst imaginable thing that discover the worst imaginable thing that Lynne had passed instantly on the Lynne had passed instantly on the Lynne had passed instantly on the motorcycle but it turns out was they motorcycle but it turns out was they motorcycle but it turns out was they were driving home from a ride they often were driving home from a ride they often were driving home from a ride they often would go out on a Sunday afternoon ride would go out on a Sunday afternoon ride would go out on a Sunday afternoon ride they just it was their favorite hobby they just it was their favorite hobby they just it was their favorite hobby Brian Lynne would ride motorcycle all Brian Lynne would ride motorcycle all Brian Lynne would ride motorcycle all the time for 20 years and it would just the time for 20 years and it would just the time for 20 years and it would just that was their thing and so they're that was their thing and so they're that was their thing and so they're coming home from the I think the pretzel coming home from the I think the pretzel coming home from the I think the pretzel hot in Lancaster and going around a very hot in Lancaster and going around a very hot in Lancaster and going around a very sharp bend a mile from their house sharp bend a mile from their house sharp bend a mile from their house mm-hmm a guy who had way too much to mm-hmm a guy who had way too much to mm-hmm a guy who had way too much to drink crossed the center line and hit drink crossed the center line and hit drink crossed the center line and hit him head-on and Lynne on the impact her him head-on and Lynne on the impact her him head-on and Lynne on the impact her hurt her neck snapped and lost her life hurt her neck snapped and lost her life hurt her neck snapped and lost her life immediately Brian on the other hand was immediately Brian on the other hand was immediately Brian on the other hand was pinned under the SUV for hours hmm pinned under the SUV for hours hmm pinned under the SUV for hours hmm lost an enormous amount of blood he lost lost an enormous amount of blood he lost lost an enormous amount of blood he lost his left leg on the scene he's an his left leg on the scene he's an

his left leg on the scene he's an amputee now from above the knee so the amputee now from above the knee so the amputee now from above the knee so the the bottom half of his leg more than the bottom half of his leg more than the bottom half of his leg more than half of his leg was was lost on the half of his leg was was lost on the half of his leg was was lost on the scene that's where the that's where the scene that's where the that's where the scene that's where the that's where the impact was on the left side impact was on the left side impact was on the left side he laid under the SUV for hours you know he laid under the SUV for hours you know he laid under the SUV for hours you know lost enormous amount of blood I think lost enormous amount of blood I think lost enormous amount of blood I think after it was all said and done many after it was all said and done many after it was all said and done many surgeries 21 surgeries 36 units of blood surgeries 21 surgeries 36 units of blood surgeries 21 surgeries 36 units of blood I mean it was worse for a terrific I mean it was worse for a terrific I mean it was worse for a terrific eczema rific we and the most horrifying eczema rific we and the most horrifying eczema rific we and the most horrifying part was we didn't know if Brian was part was we didn't know if Brian was part was we didn't know if Brian was gonna live right for the first probably gonna live right for the first probably gonna live right for the first probably almost week his his life was very in the almost week his his life was very in the almost week his his life was very in the balance as well he did multiple internal balance as well he did multiple internal balance as well he did multiple internal injuries the loss of blood was so severe injuries the loss of blood was so severe injuries the loss of blood was so severe he had some head trauma he had some head trauma he had some head trauma both had helmets on but it was you know both had helmets on but it was you know both had helmets on but it was you know his lungs just it was a horrible his lungs just it was a horrible his lungs just it was a horrible horrible season in our church life and horrible season in our church life and horrible season in our church life and you so you can imagine that the you so you can imagine that the you so you can imagine that the communication firestorm and social media communication firestorm and social media communication firestorm and social media all that the media everything just right all that the media everything just right all that the media everything just right in high gear right high gear yeah I'd in high gear right high gear yeah I'd in high gear right high gear yeah I'd love to you know obviously we're gonna love to you know obviously we're gonna love to you know obviously we're gonna try to pick this apart I want to do this try to pick this apart I want to do this try to pick this apart I want to do this delicately because you know Brian delicately because you know Brian delicately because you know Brian obviously Sudhir is a loved leader you obviously Sudhir is a loved leader you obviously Sudhir is a loved leader you know he had been the lead pastor at that know he had been the lead pastor at that know he had been the lead pastor at that point 25 years 27 years that's right point 25 years 27 years that's right point 25 years 27 years that's right yeah yeah he's done give some context yeah yeah he's done give some context yeah yeah he's done give some context had been at the trip really had been had been at the trip really had been had been at the trip really had been there through this growth right that the there through this growth right that the there through this growth right that the church Church of 3000 really was was a church Church of 3000 really was was a church Church of 3000 really was was a significance of that puzzle significance of that puzzle significance of that puzzle that's correct rich in fact I grew up in that's correct rich in fact I grew up in that's correct rich in fact I grew up in the church nice so Brian was my pastor the church nice so Brian was my pastor the church nice so Brian was my pastor when I when I was in tenth grade Brian when I when I was in tenth grade Brian when I when I was in tenth grade Brian got hired as an associate pastor in 1988

got hired as an associate pastor in 1988 got hired as an associate pastor in 1988 and then in 1990 or 91 I believe he was and then in 1990 or 91 I believe he was and then in 1990 or 91 I believe he was voted as a lead pastor so he's been the voted as a lead pastor so he's been the voted as a lead pastor so he's been the lead pastor for 26 years or so and a lot lead pastor for 26 years or so and a lot lead pastor for 26 years or so and a lot of the growth has been under his of the growth has been under his of the growth has been under his leadership he's a dynamic speaker leadership he's a dynamic speaker leadership he's a dynamic speaker communicator preacher and leader and so communicator preacher and leader and so communicator preacher and leader and so a lot of the growth that our church has a lot of the growth that our church has a lot of the growth that our church has experienced probably when I was a kid experienced probably when I was a kid experienced probably when I was a kid the church was two to three hundred the church was two to three hundred the church was two to three hundred people right and so in the last under people right and so in the last under people right and so in the last under his leadership two to three thousand you his leadership two to three thousand you his leadership two to three thousand you know it's just been a great growth but know it's just been a great growth but know it's just been a great growth but yeah and he just so you understand yeah and he just so you understand yeah and he just so you understand Richie he speaks about this very Richie he speaks about this very Richie he speaks about this very comfortably and then obviously it's comfortably and then obviously it's comfortably and then obviously it's traumatic it's horribly he lost his wife traumatic it's horribly he lost his wife traumatic it's horribly he lost his wife he lost his left leg but he he does he lost his left leg but he he does he lost his left leg but he he does speak on it he gets invited to share his speak on it he gets invited to share his speak on it he gets invited to share his story at churches he this just this year story at churches he this just this year story at churches he this just this year in August he got to share his story with in August he got to share his story with in August he got to share his story with the entire Assemblies of God General the entire Assemblies of God General the entire Assemblies of God General Council so he was it was just you know Council so he was it was just you know Council so he was it was just you know to encourage people through these kinds to encourage people through these kinds to encourage people through these kinds of tragedies it was an awesome of tragedies it was an awesome of tragedies it was an awesome opportunity for him so yeah and they you opportunity for him so yeah and they you opportunity for him so yeah and they you know to kind of jump ahead that the know to kind of jump ahead that the know to kind of jump ahead that the punchline is he ended up and again I'm punchline is he ended up and again I'm punchline is he ended up and again I'm compressing years in a long term it was compressing years in a long term it was compressing years in a long term it was like two months in the hospital a lot of like two months in the hospital a lot of like two months in the hospital a lot of work and that's 51 days in the hospital work and that's 51 days in the hospital work and that's 51 days in the hospital yeah that's amazing I you know I yeah that's amazing I you know I yeah that's amazing I you know I actually ended up at GT I think he had actually ended up at GT I think he had actually ended up at GT I think he had been back for maybe a month a month or been back for maybe a month a month or been back for maybe a month a month or six weeks and got a chance to see you six weeks and got a chance to see you six weeks and got a chance to see you know Brian preach and you know that was know Brian preach and you know that was know Brian preach and you know that was that was amazing and and so what I what that was amazing and and so what I what that was amazing and and so what I what I want to do is is and again I don't I want to do is is and again I don't I want to do is is and again I don't want to be blight of the situation but want to be blight of the situation but want to be blight of the situation but there are often times in church there are often times in church there are often times in church leadership circles you know you'll hear leadership circles you know you'll hear leadership circles you know you'll hear the shorthand of like well what happens

the shorthand of like well what happens the shorthand of like well what happens if you know the lead guy gets hit by a if you know the lead guy gets hit by a if you know the lead guy gets hit by a truck and and literally that's what truck and and literally that's what truck and and literally that's what happened and yeah and so what I'd love happened and yeah and so what I'd love happened and yeah and so what I'd love to do is in again not trying to be a to do is in again not trying to be a to do is in again not trying to be a delegate to pick that apart first of all delegate to pick that apart first of all delegate to pick that apart first of all you as a leader obviously your your you as a leader obviously your your you as a leader obviously your your I would imagine there's multiple things I would imagine there's multiple things I would imagine there's multiple things happening in your brain at the time happening in your brain at the time happening in your brain at the time there's you know how do we care for there's you know how do we care for there's you know how do we care for Brian as an individual how do you know Brian as an individual how do you know Brian as an individual how do you know his family tragedy that has gone on his family tragedy that has gone on his family tragedy that has gone on there and then obviously then what there and then obviously then what there and then obviously then what impact does this have on the church how impact does this have on the church how impact does this have on the church how do we in those in those early days what do we in those in those early days what do we in those in those early days what were some of the first steps you took to were some of the first steps you took to were some of the first steps you took to try to manage all those you know various try to manage all those you know various try to manage all those you know various pieces of the puzzle yeah rich and again pieces of the puzzle yeah rich and again pieces of the puzzle yeah rich and again if I there's so much to tell run the if I there's so much to tell run the if I there's so much to tell run the story if I if I just give me a nod or story if I if I just give me a nod or story if I if I just give me a nod or something I've anything to move on something I've anything to move on something I've anything to move on there's so much to say but you're there's so much to say but you're there's so much to say but you're absolutely correct there were so many absolutely correct there were so many absolutely correct there were so many plates spinning at the same time in this plates spinning at the same time in this plates spinning at the same time in this kind of tragedy there was caring for kind of tragedy there was caring for kind of tragedy there was caring for Brian and wanting to know that he had Brian and wanting to know that he had Brian and wanting to know that he had people with him that I would be able to people with him that I would be able to people with him that I would be able to go visit with him as often as I possibly go visit with him as often as I possibly go visit with him as often as I possibly could he wasn't just my pastor brian could he wasn't just my pastor brian could he wasn't just my pastor brian hasn't just been my ministry mentor he hasn't just been my ministry mentor he hasn't just been my ministry mentor he was my friend was my friend was my friend was my friend a great friend and so this was my friend a great friend and so this was my friend a great friend and so this it was emotional for me I mean it was it was emotional for me I mean it was it was emotional for me I mean it was emotional for all of us the church emotional for all of us the church emotional for all of us the church everyone so while you are trying to everyone so while you are trying to everyone so while you are trying to manage your own emotions you have to manage your own emotions you have to manage your own emotions you have to also think of all the different moving also think of all the different moving also think of all the different moving parts in the church there's so there's a parts in the church there's so there's a parts in the church there's so there's a care for Brian there's a care for his care for Brian there's a care for his care for Brian there's a care for his his family his three sons are young his family his three sons are young his family his three sons are young adult sons one of them married one of adult sons one of them married one of adult sons one of them married one of them engaged at the time and one heading them engaged at the time and one heading them engaged at the time and one heading off to college at that time and then off to college at that time and then off to college at that time and then there's there's the church you know just

there's there's the church you know just there's there's the church you know just the the care for the congregation all the the care for the congregation all the the care for the congregation all the communication that would have to the communication that would have to the communication that would have to happen everything that we were doing happen everything that we were doing happen everything that we were doing just came to a screeching halt right for just came to a screeching halt right for just came to a screeching halt right for a season where there was some big things a season where there was some big things a season where there was some big things that we had to really sort through with that we had to really sort through with that we had to really sort through with whether or not we were going to still do whether or not we were going to still do whether or not we were going to still do them we had a VBS are one of our biggest them we had a VBS are one of our biggest them we had a VBS are one of our biggest outreaches of the year over a thousand outreaches of the year over a thousand outreaches of the year over a thousand kids come to our church four against kids come to our church four against kids come to our church four against four days of VBS three weeks after this four days of VBS three weeks after this four days of VBS three weeks after this accident oh my goodness accident oh my goodness accident oh my goodness we had to wrestle that to the ground we had to wrestle that to the ground we had to wrestle that to the ground with our Board of Deacons and their with our Board of Deacons and their with our Board of Deacons and their elder board to say do we do this we had elder board to say do we do this we had elder board to say do we do this we had a missions team leaving for Uganda for a missions team leaving for Uganda for a missions team leaving for Uganda for Africa the next week do we go yeah what Africa the next week do we go yeah what Africa the next week do we go yeah what was going on how did you how did you was going on how did you how did you was going on how did you how did you come about making a decision one way or come about making a decision one way or come about making a decision one way or another what was kind of factoring in on another what was kind of factoring in on another what was kind of factoring in on those decisions yes so I'll say this those decisions yes so I'll say this those decisions yes so I'll say this with Brian's style of leadership first with Brian's style of leadership first with Brian's style of leadership first of all we all knew Bryant we know Brian of all we all knew Bryant we know Brian of all we all knew Bryant we know Brian well and we know it's heart and Brian well and we know it's heart and Brian well and we know it's heart and Brian would never have wanted would never have wanted would never have wanted ministry to stop on his accounts right ministry to stop on his accounts right ministry to stop on his accounts right regardless regardless regardless the the tragedy that we that we had said the the tragedy that we that we had said the the tragedy that we that we had said in the beginning days this is in the beginning days this is in the beginning days this is unthinkable it's unimaginable that this unthinkable it's unimaginable that this unthinkable it's unimaginable that this would ever happen right would ever happen right would ever happen right we knew Bryan's heart to such a degree we knew Bryan's heart to such a degree we knew Bryan's heart to such a degree that we knew that he would say listen that we knew that he would say listen that we knew that he would say listen you go the mission of the church doesn't you go the mission of the church doesn't you go the mission of the church doesn't change because of an individual's change because of an individual's change because of an individual's heartache right and so knowing Bryan's heartache right and so knowing Bryan's heartache right and so knowing Bryan's heart for ministry and for the mission heart for ministry and for the mission heart for ministry and for the mission and the cause of Christ we knew in our and the cause of Christ we knew in our and the cause of Christ we knew in our hearts that we could go forward with hearts that we could go forward with hearts that we could go forward with ministry and Brian part of his ministry and Brian part of his ministry and Brian part of his leadership style was very much an leadership style was very much an leadership style was very much an empowering and delegating leadership empowering and delegating leadership empowering and delegating leadership style led by example so much but he

style led by example so much but he style led by example so much but he would all use this phrase already rich would all use this phrase already rich would all use this phrase already rich he would say all the time he would say all the time he would say all the time look gang if I get hit by a truck rich look gang if I get hit by a truck rich look gang if I get hit by a truck rich he would say that all the time too he would say that all the time too he would say that all the time too amazing so as a means of like listen amazing so as a means of like listen amazing so as a means of like listen this show must go on right bigger than this show must go on right bigger than this show must go on right bigger than me it's true you than me it's bigger me it's true you than me it's bigger me it's true you than me it's bigger than me that's right it's bigger than me than me that's right it's bigger than me than me that's right it's bigger than me while I while God has appointed me to while I while God has appointed me to while I while God has appointed me to lead this church listen if I ever get lead this church listen if I ever get lead this church listen if I ever get hit by a truck some day somebody else hit by a truck some day somebody else hit by a truck some day somebody else gonna lead this church and the staff gonna lead this church and the staff gonna lead this church and the staff will lead the church and now we store in will lead the church and now we store in will lead the church and now we store in him a thousand times since then you him a thousand times since then you him a thousand times since then you can't say that anymore I think that that can't say that anymore I think that that can't say that anymore I think that that joke aside you gotta find you axiom we joke aside you gotta find you axiom we joke aside you gotta find you axiom we need an axiom update is what we call it need an axiom update is what we call it need an axiom update is what we call it you got to find a new way to say that you got to find a new way to say that you got to find a new way to say that okay right because you've been hit by okay right because you've been hit by okay right because you've been hit by truck yeah we're done say another but truck yeah we're done say another but truck yeah we're done say another but yeah and communication was a big deal yeah and communication was a big deal yeah and communication was a big deal for us in the beginning and very for us in the beginning and very for us in the beginning and very fortunately we had a very gifted and fortunately we had a very gifted and fortunately we had a very gifted and experienced communication director Karen experienced communication director Karen experienced communication director Karen Trotman who kind of helped us one of her Trotman who kind of helped us one of her Trotman who kind of helped us one of her Forte's was crisis communication okay Forte's was crisis communication okay Forte's was crisis communication okay and so she was really we feel like man and so she was really we feel like man and so she was really we feel like man God had put her there for such a time as God had put her there for such a time as God had put her there for such a time as this and we could um we could just this and we could um we could just this and we could um we could just really learn and think through all the really learn and think through all the really learn and think through all the different messages the church would give different messages the church would give different messages the church would give updates three times a day on Brian's updates three times a day on Brian's updates three times a day on Brian's condition people want to know like the condition people want to know like the condition people want to know like the church thousands of people how's he church thousands of people how's he church thousands of people how's he doing what's new what's next like right doing what's new what's next like right doing what's new what's next like right this constant flow of communication from this constant flow of communication from this constant flow of communication from the church and through social media then the church and through social media then the church and through social media then what we were saying on Sunday the update what we were saying on Sunday the update what we were saying on Sunday the update on Sunday like somebody had to preach I on Sunday like somebody had to preach I on Sunday like somebody had to preach I was you know that the board and the was you know that the board and the was you know that the board and the Deacon board and elder board a structure Deacon board and elder board a structure Deacon board and elder board a structure again that Brian had installed was able again that Brian had installed was able again that Brian had installed was able to name me the interim pastor in there

to name me the interim pastor in there to name me the interim pastor in there in the meantime for a few months while in the meantime for a few months while in the meantime for a few months while Brian was recovering so it was that Brian was recovering so it was that Brian was recovering so it was that again that was another part of the story again that was another part of the story again that was another part of the story where where where with the way that Brian led and having with the way that Brian led and having with the way that Brian led and having the structure that he had already put in the structure that he had already put in the structure that he had already put in place it there was no scramble for power place it there was no scramble for power place it there was no scramble for power there wasn't now the pastoral staff there wasn't now the pastoral staff there wasn't now the pastoral staff sitting there saying who gets to do this sitting there saying who gets to do this sitting there saying who gets to do this who is going to do the interesting yes who is going to do the interesting yes who is going to do the interesting yes it was very clear having appointed me as it was very clear having appointed me as it was very clear having appointed me as the executive pastor probably five or the executive pastor probably five or the executive pastor probably five or six years ago right there was no vying six years ago right there was no vying six years ago right there was no vying for position the staff was amazing but for position the staff was amazing but for position the staff was amazing but we have an incredible team and you know we have an incredible team and you know we have an incredible team and you know with with their incredible service we're with with their incredible service we're with with their incredible service we're able to lead the church and and we've able to lead the church and and we've able to lead the church and and we've said for years now a couple years since said for years now a couple years since said for years now a couple years since the accident the church hardly had a the accident the church hardly had a the accident the church hardly had a speed bump right the ministry obviously speed bump right the ministry obviously speed bump right the ministry obviously this was way more than speed bump in our this was way more than speed bump in our this was way more than speed bump in our lives in Brian's life the life of our lives in Brian's life the life of our lives in Brian's life the life of our congregation our beloved pastor of 28 congregation our beloved pastor of 28 congregation our beloved pastor of 28 years you know but as far as like the years you know but as far as like the years you know but as far as like the ministry and the the mission of the ministry and the the mission of the ministry and the the mission of the church we were able to go on and forward church we were able to go on and forward church we were able to go on and forward yeah and that I'd love to dig into that yeah and that I'd love to dig into that yeah and that I'd love to dig into that a little bit because we're gonna when I a little bit because we're gonna when I a little bit because we're gonna when I heard this story that was it it was it heard this story that was it it was it heard this story that was it it was it was after so I didn't know a couple of was after so I didn't know a couple of was after so I didn't know a couple of your team members it was after the your team members it was after the your team members it was after the accident but it was a few months in and accident but it was a few months in and accident but it was a few months in and I remember thinking I just assumed like I remember thinking I just assumed like I remember thinking I just assumed like so I guess everything came to a so I guess everything came to a so I guess everything came to a screeching halt but actually the you screeching halt but actually the you screeching halt but actually the you know my impression is actually that know my impression is actually that know my impression is actually that things like you say it from from a things like you say it from from a things like you say it from from a mission point of view you know continue mission point of view you know continue mission point of view you know continue to go forward what were some of the to go forward what were some of the to go forward what were some of the things that you did that or that God things that you did that or that God things that you did that or that God used in the midst of this to kind of used in the midst of this to kind of used in the midst of this to kind of help things you know continue on one of

help things you know continue on one of help things you know continue on one of the I think one of the keys in this the I think one of the keys in this the I think one of the keys in this season was our outer board so Brian season was our outer board so Brian season was our outer board so Brian years ago had had implemented what what years ago had had implemented what what years ago had had implemented what what he called the elder board so we have a he called the elder board so we have a he called the elder board so we have a Deacon board we're a congregational form Deacon board we're a congregational form Deacon board we're a congregational form of government in our church and we have of government in our church and we have of government in our church and we have a Board of Deacons who helps to lead a Board of Deacons who helps to lead a Board of Deacons who helps to lead from like a high level administrative from like a high level administrative from like a high level administrative straight of purpose but then he put in straight of purpose but then he put in straight of purpose but then he put in place an elder board where they were place an elder board where they were place an elder board where they were appointed by Brian mainly for supports appointed by Brian mainly for supports appointed by Brian mainly for supports and accountability for the lead pastor and accountability for the lead pastor and accountability for the lead pastor right and that outer board was composed right and that outer board was composed right and that outer board was composed of three resident elders and three of three resident elders and three of three resident elders and three non-resident elders so the three non-resident elders so the three non-resident elders so the three resident elders were on staff yeah I was resident elders were on staff yeah I was resident elders were on staff yeah I was I'm one of them Phil Baker is one of I'm one of them Phil Baker is one of I'm one of them Phil Baker is one of them and Brian's another elder and then them and Brian's another elder and then them and Brian's another elder and then we have Greg Hubbard Tom Rees and Jim we have Greg Hubbard Tom Rees and Jim we have Greg Hubbard Tom Rees and Jim comenzó who are non-resident elders comenzó who are non-resident elders comenzó who are non-resident elders they're connected to our church but they're connected to our church but they're connected to our church but they're not part of our church on a they're not part of our church on a they're not part of our church on a regular basis regular basis regular basis okay and so I mean they're connected okay and so I mean they're connected okay and so I mean they're connected deeply but they were they were a team deeply but they were they were a team deeply but they were they were a team put together by Brian just to bring high put together by Brian just to bring high put together by Brian just to bring high level like vision steering and level like vision steering and level like vision steering and accountability to Brian and so we've had accountability to Brian and so we've had accountability to Brian and so we've had these elders in place for years and when these elders in place for years and when these elders in place for years and when this happened we just felt like you know this happened we just felt like you know this happened we just felt like you know what again for such a time as this this what again for such a time as this this what again for such a time as this this is a time where the elders who play a is a time where the elders who play a is a time where the elders who play a pretty much quiet role mm-hmm behind the pretty much quiet role mm-hmm behind the pretty much quiet role mm-hmm behind the scenes really just there to support the scenes really just there to support the scenes really just there to support the lead pastor we felt like this is a lead pastor we felt like this is a lead pastor we felt like this is a season where they need to come up front season where they need to come up front season where they need to come up front mm-hmm we need to have the outers be mm-hmm we need to have the outers be mm-hmm we need to have the outers be visible in front of the congregation so visible in front of the congregation so visible in front of the congregation so that it it provided security for the that it it provided security for the that it it provided security for the church family to say you know what this church family to say you know what this church family to say you know what this this deal is bigger than any one person

this deal is bigger than any one person this deal is bigger than any one person it's not it's not all my shoulders while it's not it's not all my shoulders while it's not it's not all my shoulders while I was the executive pastor and and given I was the executive pastor and and given I was the executive pastor and and given the opportunity to lead in that scenario the opportunity to lead in that scenario the opportunity to lead in that scenario the future the church laid in the hands the future the church laid in the hands the future the church laid in the hands of very capable elders and a very of very capable elders and a very of very capable elders and a very capable staff it's fascinating capable staff it's fascinating capable staff it's fascinating now I wonder if could you explain a now I wonder if could you explain a now I wonder if could you explain a little bit more detail around the little bit more detail around the little bit more detail around the internal-external elder board because internal-external elder board because internal-external elder board because you know the interesting thing about you know the interesting thing about you know the interesting thing about that this is it is actually like you say that this is it is actually like you say that this is it is actually like you say for a moments like this that that kind for a moments like this that that kind for a moments like this that that kind of structure you know comes about you of structure you know comes about you of structure you know comes about you just you know there are our moments just you know there are our moments just you know there are our moments where you need that you know kind of where you need that you know kind of where you need that you know kind of some extra leadership how does that work some extra leadership how does that work some extra leadership how does that work this kind of give us a little more this kind of give us a little more this kind of give us a little more explanation on that yeah and I think explanation on that yeah and I think explanation on that yeah and I think again that's one of the strengths of again that's one of the strengths of again that's one of the strengths of Brian's leadership that he I think he Brian's leadership that he I think he Brian's leadership that he I think he understood the importance of structure understood the importance of structure understood the importance of structure that's an important word for us and and that's an important word for us and and that's an important word for us and and we didn't realize how vital that would we didn't realize how vital that would we didn't realize how vital that would be so we again we have a Deacon board be so we again we have a Deacon board be so we again we have a Deacon board which has is nominated nominated and which has is nominated nominated and which has is nominated nominated and voted on by the congregation seven voted on by the congregation seven voted on by the congregation seven people who serve for a one-year term but people who serve for a one-year term but people who serve for a one-year term but then there's an elder board that's then there's an elder board that's then there's an elder board that's that's appointed and so I could that's appointed and so I could that's appointed and so I could handpicked by a lead pastor three of handpicked by a lead pastor three of handpicked by a lead pastor three of those outers are internal meaning those outers are internal meaning those outers are internal meaning they're on staff and three of those they're on staff and three of those they're on staff and three of those elders are external meaning they have a elders are external meaning they have a elders are external meaning they have a strong relationship connection right to strong relationship connection right to strong relationship connection right to our church but they're not paid staff our church but they're not paid staff our church but they're not paid staff members Greg Hubbard he's an evangelist members Greg Hubbard he's an evangelist members Greg Hubbard he's an evangelist he speaks at our church six or seven he speaks at our church six or seven he speaks at our church six or seven times a year he's an elder Tom Rees times a year he's an elder Tom Rees times a year he's an elder Tom Rees who's in the Penndel district office was who's in the Penndel district office was who's in the Penndel district office was on staff years ago with GT but isn't a on staff years ago with GT but isn't a on staff years ago with GT but isn't a non resident elder than Jim comenzó a non resident elder than Jim comenzó a non resident elder than Jim comenzó a friend of our church attends friend of our church attends friend of our church attends occasionally is just a tremendous man of occasionally is just a tremendous man of occasionally is just a tremendous man of God he's an external kind of God he's an external kind of God he's an external kind of non-resident elder and then three of us

non-resident elder and then three of us non-resident elder and then three of us internally yeah who internally yeah who internally yeah who on staff and pastors are elders Brian on staff and pastors are elders Brian on staff and pastors are elders Brian myself and then Phil Baker I know that myself and then Phil Baker I know that myself and then Phil Baker I know that for a few flattered listening in that for a few flattered listening in that for a few flattered listening in that may not be familiar with that kind of may not be familiar with that kind of may not be familiar with that kind of structure there is an interesting piece structure there is an interesting piece structure there is an interesting piece of that puzzle that you know you have of that puzzle that you know you have of that puzzle that you know you have obviously internal staff who are at a obviously internal staff who are at a obviously internal staff who are at a senior level and then external staff who senior level and then external staff who senior level and then external staff who are it sounds like are a part of other are it sounds like are a part of other are it sounds like are a part of other ministries or are familiar with the ministries or are familiar with the ministries or are familiar with the ministry context which particularly at ministry context which particularly at ministry context which particularly at the moments like this you know I think the moments like this you know I think the moments like this you know I think it's I think it's important to think it's I think it's important to think it's I think it's important to think through who are the people that will be through who are the people that will be through who are the people that will be steering the ship at that moment and and steering the ship at that moment and and steering the ship at that moment and and you know like typically like in your you know like typically like in your you know like typically like in your structure with you know maybe internal structure with you know maybe internal structure with you know maybe internal deacons who they love the church they're deacons who they love the church they're deacons who they love the church they're a part of the church they're you know a part of the church they're you know a part of the church they're you know they're a part of the ministry but they they're a part of the ministry but they they're a part of the ministry but they you know their date they may be doctor you know their date they may be doctor you know their date they may be doctor lawyer they may be like there and run lawyer they may be like there and run lawyer they may be like there and run their own business whatever to do their own business whatever to do their own business whatever to do whatever and they're in there in their whatever and they're in there in their whatever and they're in there in their normal lives but when it comes to a normal lives but when it comes to a normal lives but when it comes to a moment like this actually having kind of moment like this actually having kind of moment like this actually having kind of senior leaders from other ministries senior leaders from other ministries senior leaders from other ministries they're you know to help can be just a they're you know to help can be just a they're you know to help can be just a tremendous gift obviously it's a gift on tremendous gift obviously it's a gift on tremendous gift obviously it's a gift on day and day out for a lead pastor like day and day out for a lead pastor like day and day out for a lead pastor like Brian to have someone you know a group Brian to have someone you know a group Brian to have someone you know a group like that that he can go to on a regular like that that he can go to on a regular like that that he can go to on a regular basis but then particularly at moments basis but then particularly at moments basis but then particularly at moments like this so after a few months again I like this so after a few months again I like this so after a few months again I do feel bad every time we kind of just do feel bad every time we kind of just do feel bad every time we kind of just move along on Brian's life yeah after a move along on Brian's life yeah after a move along on Brian's life yeah after a few months were in it and when it got to few months were in it and when it got to few months were in it and when it got to take me to the moment where okay it was take me to the moment where okay it was take me to the moment where okay it was clear you know obviously he had severe clear you know obviously he had severe clear you know obviously he had severe injuries he had kind of made some injuries he had kind of made some injuries he had kind of made some progress it looked like okay he's progress it looked like okay he's progress it looked like okay he's definitely coming back I'm sure there definitely coming back I'm sure there definitely coming back I'm sure there was a moment where it was like is he was a moment where it was like is he was a moment where it was like is he coming is he not coming what's that coming is he not coming what's that coming is he not coming what's that gonna look like but we get past that

gonna look like but we get past that gonna look like but we get past that he's definitely coming back what did the he's definitely coming back what did the he's definitely coming back what did the kind of re-entry process look like I'd kind of re-entry process look like I'd kind of re-entry process look like I'd love to kind of process that a little love to kind of process that a little love to kind of process that a little bit bit bit it was so his re-entry to ministry was it was so his re-entry to ministry was it was so his re-entry to ministry was slow and fast at the same time because slow and fast at the same time because slow and fast at the same time because when you consider what he had been when you consider what he had been when you consider what he had been through I mean he had again pinned on through I mean he had again pinned on through I mean he had again pinned on her an SUV lost more than his entire her an SUV lost more than his entire her an SUV lost more than his entire volume of blood you know in an induced volume of blood you know in an induced volume of blood you know in an induced coma for three weeks coma for three weeks coma for three weeks I mean 51 days and ICU it's amazing that I mean 51 days and ICU it's amazing that I mean 51 days and ICU it's amazing that he's even alive right lost his left leg he's even alive right lost his left leg he's even alive right lost his left leg and just incredible so he started to and just incredible so he started to and just incredible so he started to once he left the hospital 51 days in the once he left the hospital 51 days in the once he left the hospital 51 days in the hospital he started to just we would we hospital he started to just we would we hospital he started to just we would we would start to have some meetings at his would start to have some meetings at his would start to have some meetings at his house again just to fellowship with him house again just to fellowship with him house again just to fellowship with him just to see him we were so glad to just just to see him we were so glad to just just to see him we were so glad to just like Brian it's so good to see you you like Brian it's so good to see you you like Brian it's so good to see you you know he'd be like well it's so good to know he'd be like well it's so good to know he'd be like well it's so good to be seen you know and be seen you know and be seen you know and and we just we would just spend time and we just we would just spend time and we just we would just spend time leader we'd have some casual casual leader we'd have some casual casual leader we'd have some casual casual meetings you know the senior leadership meetings you know the senior leadership meetings you know the senior leadership of the church on staff we just go and of the church on staff we just go and of the church on staff we just go and meet with him kind of some updates for meet with him kind of some updates for meet with him kind of some updates for him he knew where we were with what's him he knew where we were with what's him he knew where we were with what's been going on the church and and him to been going on the church and and him to been going on the church and and him to just maybe speak into some things and so just maybe speak into some things and so just maybe speak into some things and so we'd meet at his house and then week we'd meet at his house and then week we'd meet at his house and then week later we'd go over again and just again later we'd go over again and just again later we'd go over again and just again some conversations that were happening some conversations that were happening some conversations that were happening some meetings that we'd have no I'm good some meetings that we'd have no I'm good some meetings that we'd have no I'm good you know many then he made it he's like you know many then he made it he's like you know many then he made it he's like you know we you guys surprised me at the you know we you guys surprised me at the you know we you guys surprised me at the house he did a drop by a visit at the house he did a drop by a visit at the house he did a drop by a visit at the church yeah like oh my word Brian to you church yeah like oh my word Brian to you church yeah like oh my word Brian to you like his first day back just came by the like his first day back just came by the like his first day back just came by the office just surprised us he was down the

office just surprised us he was down the office just surprised us he was down the street for a doctor's visit and just street for a doctor's visit and just street for a doctor's visit and just popped in so it was like that was a popped in so it was like that was a popped in so it was like that was a really exciting ly staff to see our really exciting ly staff to see our really exciting ly staff to see our pastor again like it oh my word Brian's pastor again like it oh my word Brian's pastor again like it oh my word Brian's back and yeah so they Steve of these back and yeah so they Steve of these back and yeah so they Steve of these casual visits and just sporadic but then casual visits and just sporadic but then casual visits and just sporadic but then as he was starting to feel better and as he was starting to feel better and as he was starting to feel better and really starting to feel more himself I really starting to feel more himself I really starting to feel more himself I think that was what took awhile again think that was what took awhile again think that was what took awhile again you can't in in 20 minutes describe 51 you can't in in 20 minutes describe 51 you can't in in 20 minutes describe 51 days in the icing it's as you can days in the icing it's as you can days in the icing it's as you can imagine so but knew as he started to imagine so but knew as he started to imagine so but knew as he started to feel more himself and started to have feel more himself and started to have feel more himself and started to have his mind come clear and his memory and his mind come clear and his memory and his mind come clear and his memory and all that like he started to get more all that like he started to get more all that like he started to get more involved and he'd come in he'd come to involved and he'd come in he'd come to involved and he'd come in he'd come to meetings at the church and do you know a meetings at the church and do you know a meetings at the church and do you know a couple days a week four hours a day just couple days a week four hours a day just couple days a week four hours a day just come and he'd be in meetings we can come and he'd be in meetings we can come and he'd be in meetings we can connect with him and he'd be part of the connect with him and he'd be part of the connect with him and he'd be part of the senior leadership of the the meetings we senior leadership of the the meetings we senior leadership of the the meetings we had to plan ministry and and then we had to plan ministry and and then we had to plan ministry and and then we started to talk about well what would it started to talk about well what would it started to talk about well what would it look like for you to come back and to look like for you to come back and to look like for you to come back and to just speak to the church you know and so just speak to the church you know and so just speak to the church you know and so he planned an incredible first day back he planned an incredible first day back he planned an incredible first day back again he wasn't back in the office again he wasn't back in the office again he wasn't back in the office full-time at that point when he first full-time at that point when he first full-time at that point when he first took sage October 18th in 2050 just for took sage October 18th in 2050 just for took sage October 18th in 2050 just for the church to see him and he did pretty the church to see him and he did pretty the church to see him and he did pretty preach the last message in a series that preach the last message in a series that preach the last message in a series that was called epic mmm series we had was called epic mmm series we had was called epic mmm series we had planned six months before the acts of planned six months before the acts of planned six months before the acts of critic yeah it's crazy the the bottom critic yeah it's crazy the the bottom critic yeah it's crazy the the bottom line for that day which we had written line for that day which we had written line for that day which we had written before the accident was if if God brings before the accident was if if God brings before the accident was if if God brings you to it he will bring you through it you to it he will bring you through it you to it he will bring you through it mmm mmm mmm it written that mess that that bottom it written that mess that that bottom it written that mess that that bottom line to the frame out that series before line to the frame out that series before line to the frame out that series before the accident ever occurred and then as

the accident ever occurred and then as the accident ever occurred and then as time progressed like oh my gosh like time progressed like oh my gosh like time progressed like oh my gosh like Brian could preach that less message and Brian could preach that less message and Brian could preach that less message and God brings do it he will bring you God brings do it he will bring you God brings do it he will bring you through it amazing amazing unbelievable through it amazing amazing unbelievable through it amazing amazing unbelievable so the last the last week of that series so the last the last week of that series so the last the last week of that series epic was incredibly epic for our church epic was incredibly epic for our church epic was incredibly epic for our church it was probably the most amazing moments it was probably the most amazing moments it was probably the most amazing moments in our church life absolutely by far-- in our church life absolutely by far-- in our church life absolutely by far-- attended weekend of service we had that attended weekend of service we had that attended weekend of service we had that we added to Saturday night services for we added to Saturday night services for we added to Saturday night services for that week and and it's Sunday morning that week and and it's Sunday morning that week and and it's Sunday morning and it was I mean was standing room only and it was I mean was standing room only and it was I mean was standing room only was it was unbelievable I cried every was it was unbelievable I cried every was it was unbelievable I cried every service who was just when he just service who was just when he just service who was just when he just wheeled out and you didn't have his wheeled out and you didn't have his wheeled out and you didn't have his prosthetic leg yet he just wheeled out prosthetic leg yet he just wheeled out prosthetic leg yet he just wheeled out in the wheelchair it's like 10 minutes in the wheelchair it's like 10 minutes in the wheelchair it's like 10 minutes of applause standing ovation because our of applause standing ovation because our of applause standing ovation because our church we decided to see our pastor like church we decided to see our pastor like church we decided to see our pastor like on this he's deal he's called to do yeah on this he's deal he's called to do yeah on this he's deal he's called to do yeah it was there's an amazing amazing moment it was there's an amazing amazing moment it was there's an amazing amazing moment so after that again then you're looking so after that again then you're looking so after that again then you're looking at Christmas Eve and he I think he at Christmas Eve and he I think he at Christmas Eve and he I think he preached one more message between preached one more message between preached one more message between October 18th and Christmas Eve and then October 18th and Christmas Eve and then October 18th and Christmas Eve and then it was Eve and he had his prosthetic leg it was Eve and he had his prosthetic leg it was Eve and he had his prosthetic leg on and again there was just so many on and again there was just so many on and again there was just so many amazing moments in that you know that's amazing moments in that you know that's amazing moments in that you know that's amazing and then so then he was back amazing and then so then he was back amazing and then so then he was back kind of at what point did it kind of kind of at what point did it kind of kind of at what point did it kind of transfer back he was you know kind of transfer back he was you know kind of transfer back he was you know kind of back in the not only in the pulpit but back in the not only in the pulpit but back in the not only in the pulpit but then really leading you know was that then really leading you know was that then really leading you know was that later that that spring or was it that later that that spring or was it that later that that spring or was it that wintertime I guess I was that III now wintertime I guess I was that III now wintertime I guess I was that III now that I was either it was late the end of that I was either it was late the end of that I was either it was late the end of the year the beginning of the year was the year the beginning of the year was the year the beginning of the year was either end of 2015 or beginning of 2016 either end of 2015 or beginning of 2016 either end of 2015 or beginning of 2016 when right we kind of just did this it when right we kind of just did this it when right we kind of just did this it was kind of like a rehand off bathroom was kind of like a rehand off bathroom was kind of like a rehand off bathroom I'm really not right it kind of happened I'm really not right it kind of happened I'm really not right it kind of happened we have a um at that point in time we

we have a um at that point in time we we have a um at that point in time we had what we call the ministry leadership had what we call the ministry leadership had what we call the ministry leadership teams about 11 of us who were like the teams about 11 of us who were like the teams about 11 of us who were like the four simple terms of department leaders four simple terms of department leaders four simple terms of department leaders and we were all part of a b-tree and we were all part of a b-tree and we were all part of a b-tree leadership team which I had been leading leadership team which I had been leading leadership team which I had been leading for the last three or four months in for the last three or four months in for the last three or four months in Brian's absence that was part of the Brian's absence that was part of the Brian's absence that was part of the design of role and we were just in a design of role and we were just in a design of role and we were just in a meeting and we were just kind of talking meeting and we were just kind of talking meeting and we were just kind of talking about like again casual conversation about like again casual conversation about like again casual conversation among leaders who were friends just like among leaders who were friends just like among leaders who were friends just like you know one at what point do we you you know one at what point do we you you know one at what point do we you know transfer leadership back to our know transfer leadership back to our know transfer leadership back to our pastor and right we're just talking it's pastor and right we're just talking it's pastor and right we're just talking it's like I'm like Brian whenever you're like I'm like Brian whenever you're like I'm like Brian whenever you're ready ready ready right you're a pastor well he's kind of right you're a pastor well he's kind of right you're a pastor well he's kind of just transpired like I think I'm ready just transpired like I think I'm ready just transpired like I think I'm ready okay okay okay nice that's me I'm here just to serve in nice that's me I'm here just to serve in nice that's me I'm here just to serve in your absence so you were absent I was your absence so you were absent I was your absence so you were absent I was serving but when you're back you're the serving but when you're back you're the serving but when you're back you're the leadership elves they're just it's leadership elves they're just it's leadership elves they're just it's amazing him so much to pull apart here amazing him so much to pull apart here amazing him so much to pull apart here and the thing I love about the story is and the thing I love about the story is and the thing I love about the story is there was again your credit to your there was again your credit to your there was again your credit to your leadership to Brian's leadership of leadership to Brian's leadership of leadership to Brian's leadership of really years of building relational really years of building relational really years of building relational equity with each other with the church equity with each other with the church equity with each other with the church with leaders to you know to bring you to with leaders to you know to bring you to with leaders to you know to bring you to the point where you could weather a the point where you could weather a the point where you could weather a storm like this one last question before storm like this one last question before storm like this one last question before we move on with the rest of you know we move on with the rest of you know we move on with the rest of you know that what there are episode I know that what there are episode I know that what there are episode I know there's a lot we could talk about but there's a lot we could talk about but there's a lot we could talk about but looking back on it is there anything looking back on it is there anything looking back on it is there anything that you'd be like you were you you that you'd be like you were you you that you'd be like you were you you would say maybe maybe we would have done would say maybe maybe we would have done would say maybe maybe we would have done this differently you know there was a this differently you know there was a this differently you know there was a piece of this puzzle that you know maybe piece of this puzzle that you know maybe piece of this puzzle that you know maybe you know having been through this this you know having been through this this you know having been through this this is literally a once-in-a-lifetime kind is literally a once-in-a-lifetime kind is literally a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing no one knows as you go through of thing no one knows as you go through of thing no one knows as you go through it you're like okay we're just relying it you're like okay we're just relying it you're like okay we're just relying on the Lord but now having you know kind on the Lord but now having you know kind on the Lord but now having you know kind of hindsight is there anything that you

of hindsight is there anything that you of hindsight is there anything that you would have done different huh Wow rich would have done different huh Wow rich would have done different huh Wow rich that's a um I'd say um thought-provoking that's a um I'd say um thought-provoking that's a um I'd say um thought-provoking question because as again the beauty of question because as again the beauty of question because as again the beauty of having again an incredible staff a large having again an incredible staff a large having again an incredible staff a large leadership team we had a lot of voices leadership team we had a lot of voices leadership team we had a lot of voices around the table at that season there around the table at that season there around the table at that season there wasn't like me and three others it was wasn't like me and three others it was wasn't like me and three others it was our ministry leadership team our Deacon our ministry leadership team our Deacon our ministry leadership team our Deacon board or outer board you're talking board or outer board you're talking board or outer board you're talking about 20 people right season the leaders about 20 people right season the leaders about 20 people right season the leaders and veteran ministry leaders speaking and veteran ministry leaders speaking and veteran ministry leaders speaking into the big decisions and the timing of into the big decisions and the timing of into the big decisions and the timing of one thing I mean Brian wasn't there for one thing I mean Brian wasn't there for one thing I mean Brian wasn't there for his wife's funeral right one of the his wife's funeral right one of the his wife's funeral right one of the hardest decisions we ever made was we hardest decisions we ever made was we hardest decisions we ever made was we were gonna bury Lynn and Brian was gonna were gonna bury Lynn and Brian was gonna were gonna bury Lynn and Brian was gonna watch it on the video when he was watch it on the video when he was watch it on the video when he was conscious it's bizarre right it's conscious it's bizarre right it's conscious it's bizarre right it's incredible but those kinds of decisions incredible but those kinds of decisions incredible but those kinds of decisions were made by a well seasoned team and were made by a well seasoned team and were made by a well seasoned team and you're I'm sure I could come up with you're I'm sure I could come up with you're I'm sure I could come up with something yeah right but I've never something yeah right but I've never something yeah right but I've never thought of that there's nothing that you thought of that there's nothing that you thought of that there's nothing that you like as we know that's governing through like as we know that's governing through like as we know that's governing through that season I feel like we handled it that season I feel like we handled it that season I feel like we handled it the best we were able to attack I'm sure the best we were able to attack I'm sure the best we were able to attack I'm sure if i sat down with time I could write 10 if i sat down with time I could write 10 if i sat down with time I could write 10 things we would have done differently things we would have done differently things we would have done differently but that's good oh that's good but that's good oh that's good but that's good oh that's good again I think I think the thing I'm again I think I think the thing I'm again I think I think the thing I'm hoping people are picking out is the hoping people are picking out is the hoping people are picking out is the depth of leadership the you know depth of leadership the you know depth of leadership the you know pursuing wisdom you know asking you know pursuing wisdom you know asking you know pursuing wisdom you know asking you know stand close to each other staying stand close to each other staying stand close to each other staying relation relationally connected relation relationally connected relation relationally connected through it you know is is amazing this through it you know is is amazing this through it you know is is amazing this is the uncie Maneri podcast stuff you is the uncie Maneri podcast stuff you is the uncie Maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're wish they taught in seminary well we're wish they taught in seminary well we're gonna jump into the lightning round that gonna jump into the lightning round that gonna jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask similar part of the episode where we ask similar part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody that's on the

questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show this has been great show this has been great show this has been great you know today with Scott Kramer from GT you know today with Scott Kramer from GT you know today with Scott Kramer from GT Church in Pennsylvania Scott what is an Church in Pennsylvania Scott what is an Church in Pennsylvania Scott what is an online resource that you've been using online resource that you've been using online resource that you've been using these days that's been helping you in these days that's been helping you in these days that's been helping you in your ministry yeah I am oh I love to your ministry yeah I am oh I love to your ministry yeah I am oh I love to listen to podcast preaching mm-hmm you listen to podcast preaching mm-hmm you listen to podcast preaching mm-hmm you know one of the things I because I was know one of the things I because I was know one of the things I because I was called in when I was 29 was called a called in when I was 29 was called a called in when I was 29 was called a ministry so I never saw myself as a ministry so I never saw myself as a ministry so I never saw myself as a preacher but I it's a craft I want to preacher but I it's a craft I want to preacher but I it's a craft I want to grow in and a gifting I want to get grow in and a gifting I want to get grow in and a gifting I want to get better that's why I do a lot of better that's why I do a lot of better that's why I do a lot of listening to podcast preaching I listen listening to podcast preaching I listen listening to podcast preaching I listen to Northpoint Elevation Church I listen to Northpoint Elevation Church I listen to Northpoint Elevation Church I listen to run carpenter I listen to TD jakes I to run carpenter I listen to TD jakes I to run carpenter I listen to TD jakes I just I saw a lot of different preachers just I saw a lot of different preachers just I saw a lot of different preachers because I love to just grow in that because I love to just grow in that because I love to just grow in that skill of preaching and teaching so skill of preaching and teaching so skill of preaching and teaching so that's probably the one thing I use most that's probably the one thing I use most that's probably the one thing I use most of all is just I want to get better at of all is just I want to get better at of all is just I want to get better at as a preacher and teacher communicator as a preacher and teacher communicator as a preacher and teacher communicator and I I really when I listen to the and I I really when I listen to the and I I really when I listen to the messages I'm blessed personally but I messages I'm blessed personally but I messages I'm blessed personally but I think I'm looking for ways to grow my think I'm looking for ways to grow my think I'm looking for ways to grow my own communication and really my own communication and really my own communication and really my preaching voice yeah very cool what's a preaching voice yeah very cool what's a preaching voice yeah very cool what's a book you've read in the last I don't book you've read in the last I don't book you've read in the last I don't know maybe six months to a year that's know maybe six months to a year that's know maybe six months to a year that's that shaped your thinking shaped your that shaped your thinking shaped your that shaped your thinking shaped your ministry yeah we've had a lot we one of ministry yeah we've had a lot we one of ministry yeah we've had a lot we one of the practices we do again I think is a the practices we do again I think is a the practices we do again I think is a strong practice for our church staff as strong practice for our church staff as strong practice for our church staff as we read books together yep even at the we read books together yep even at the we read books together yep even at the highest level our board right now is highest level our board right now is highest level our board right now is working through a book called sticky working through a book called sticky working through a book called sticky themes that's great themes that's great themes that's great which is a great book and and so we're which is a great book and and so we're which is a great book and and so we're working through that with the board and working through that with the board and working through that with the board and with our executive leadership people on with our executive leadership people on with our executive leadership people on staff and it just we walk together we staff and it just we walk together we staff and it just we walk together we pick apart the concepts and we talk pick apart the concepts and we talk pick apart the concepts and we talk about how they apply to our lives I'm about how they apply to our lives I'm about how they apply to our lives I'm reading your book right now in reading your book right now in reading your book right now in reasonable churches no good read now I reasonable churches no good read now I reasonable churches no good read now I got a save you 20 bucks give you the got a save you 20 bucks give you the got a save you 20 bucks give you the same was for you guys but yeah myself

same was for you guys but yeah myself same was for you guys but yeah myself and our campus pastor Eric Goldsboro are and our campus pastor Eric Goldsboro are and our campus pastor Eric Goldsboro are we are working our way through that book we are working our way through that book we are working our way through that book right now because we're looking at our right now because we're looking at our right now because we're looking at our our campus which is portable right now our campus which is portable right now our campus which is portable right now we want to see it permanent someday so we want to see it permanent someday so we want to see it permanent someday so we're kind of working through that book we're kind of working through that book we're kind of working through that book right now together just reading again right now together just reading again right now together just reading again there's so much value and when our staff there's so much value and when our staff there's so much value and when our staff is reading something together right you is reading something together right you is reading something together right you know because we're thinking the same way know because we're thinking the same way know because we're thinking the same way we're hearing the same things and then we're hearing the same things and then we're hearing the same things and then we can implement and execute together we can implement and execute together we can implement and execute together cool what's another ministry you're cool what's another ministry you're cool what's another ministry you're looking at that inspires you'd mentioned looking at that inspires you'd mentioned looking at that inspires you'd mentioned elevation there any others out there elevation there any others out there elevation there any others out there that did inspire you yeah I mean again that did inspire you yeah I mean again that did inspire you yeah I mean again I think a lot of the churches in our I think a lot of the churches in our I think a lot of the churches in our country have been learning from country have been learning from country have been learning from elevation and a nice an Lea and elevation and a nice an Lea and elevation and a nice an Lea and catalysts and orange and and all that catalysts and orange and and all that catalysts and orange and and all that but I'm inspired by like I mentioned but I'm inspired by like I mentioned but I'm inspired by like I mentioned earlier not a lot of people I don't earlier not a lot of people I don't earlier not a lot of people I don't think know Ron carpenter and his church think know Ron carpenter and his church think know Ron carpenter and his church but he's a very energetic charismatic but he's a very energetic charismatic but he's a very energetic charismatic preacher and he's got a very preacher and he's got a very preacher and he's got a very multicultural diverse church and that multicultural diverse church and that multicultural diverse church and that inspires me and our I think our church inspires me and our I think our church inspires me and our I think our church has been doing well with that we we want has been doing well with that we we want has been doing well with that we we want Brian again to Brian's leadership he has Brian again to Brian's leadership he has Brian again to Brian's leadership he has said for decades we want our church to said for decades we want our church to said for decades we want our church to look like heaven mm-hmm and heavens look like heaven mm-hmm and heavens look like heaven mm-hmm and heavens gonna be populated with every race and gonna be populated with every race and gonna be populated with every race and tongue and nation and tribe and people tongue and nation and tribe and people tongue and nation and tribe and people group and and we want our church to group and and we want our church to group and and we want our church to reflect what happens in the Lycans know reflect what happens in the Lycans know reflect what happens in the Lycans know I'm inspired when I see churches that I'm inspired when I see churches that I'm inspired when I see churches that are that are not getting it perfect but are that are not getting it perfect but are that are not getting it perfect but getting it right with the racial divide getting it right with the racial divide getting it right with the racial divide that exists across this country and and that exists across this country and and that exists across this country and and seeing lots of languages and nations and seeing lots of languages and nations and seeing lots of languages and nations and skin colors worshiping together so very skin colors worshiping together so very skin colors worshiping together so very cool well I know being the executive cool well I know being the executive cool well I know being the executive pastor the church like yours it takes a pastor the church like yours it takes a pastor the church like yours it takes a lot out but what do you do when you just lot out but what do you do when you just lot out but what do you do when you just want to kick back relax have some fun want to kick back relax have some fun want to kick back relax have some fun yeah so I mentioned earlier I'm married

yeah so I mentioned earlier I'm married yeah so I mentioned earlier I'm married for 17 years of my wife Kate we've got for 17 years of my wife Kate we've got for 17 years of my wife Kate we've got two boys who are 14 and 12 Lucas and two boys who are 14 and 12 Lucas and two boys who are 14 and 12 Lucas and Matthew and our daughter Erin who turned Matthew and our daughter Erin who turned Matthew and our daughter Erin who turned six today today's her birthday six today today's her birthday six today today's her birthday congratulations she's super excited to congratulations she's super excited to congratulations she's super excited to be 6 now and so my family's number one I be 6 now and so my family's number one I be 6 now and so my family's number one I love just being with my family and doing love just being with my family and doing love just being with my family and doing we love road trips we love just day we love road trips we love just day we love road trips we love just day trips and doing stuff so family's number trips and doing stuff so family's number trips and doing stuff so family's number one for me that number two would be golf one for me that number two would be golf one for me that number two would be golf I absolutely love love love to golf so I absolutely love love love to golf so I absolutely love love love to golf so if I get out I'm happy to get out twice if I get out I'm happy to get out twice if I get out I'm happy to get out twice a month and and golf with friends I just a month and and golf with friends I just a month and and golf with friends I just enjoyed so much cool that well Scott I enjoyed so much cool that well Scott I enjoyed so much cool that well Scott I really appreciate you being on the show really appreciate you being on the show really appreciate you being on the show if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you or the church how can they do that or the church how can they do that or the church how can they do that what's the best way for them to do that what's the best way for them to do that what's the best way for them to do that probably our website GTA og or get GTA probably our website GTA og or get GTA probably our website GTA og or get GTA og or yeah perfect yes that's wonderful og or yeah perfect yes that's wonderful og or yeah perfect yes that's wonderful Scott I really appreciate be on the show Scott I really appreciate be on the show Scott I really appreciate be on the show today thank you so much yeah thank you today thank you so much yeah thank you today thank you so much yeah thank you rich for having me thank you for tuning rich for having me thank you for tuning rich for having me thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast in to this week's unsung re podcast in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy don't be shy don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie we'd love to connect check out uncie we'd love to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon airy calm and we'll send you helpful airy calm and we'll send you helpful airy calm and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus training resources every week plus training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsimilar email rich at unsimilar email rich at unsimilar recom don't forget to check out the show recom don't forget to check out the show recom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset Maneri notes for this episode at unset Maneri notes for this episode at unset Maneri calm it includes links to what we talked calm it includes links to what we talked calm it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment about today and more leave a comment about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave today's episode drop by iTunes and leave today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to a review thanks again for tuning in to a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's unsung nari podcast join us this week's unsung nari podcast join us this week's unsung nari podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we

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