Julie Liem on Reducing Ministry Silos in Your Volunteer Culture

today's un Seminary resource is brought today's un Seminary resource is brought to you by aware three at aware three to you by aware three at aware three to you by aware three at aware three their goal is to help your church build their goal is to help your church build their goal is to help your church build connections using mobile technology they connections using mobile technology they connections using mobile technology they help you extend Church beyond Sunday help you extend Church beyond Sunday help you extend Church beyond Sunday mornings by putting it in the palm of mornings by putting it in the palm of mornings by putting it in the palm of everyone's hand learn more about how a everyone's hand learn more about how a everyone's hand learn more about how a custom mobile app can help you improve custom mobile app can help you improve custom mobile app can help you improve engagement communication and generosity engagement communication and generosity engagement communication and generosity at at at www. aware3 that's the number three.com www. aware3 that's the number three.com www. aware3 that's the number three.com welcome to the UN AR podcast are you welcome to the UN AR podcast are you welcome to the UN AR podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help to looking for practical Ministry help to looking for practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have drive your ministry further faster have drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry a sinking feeling that your ministry a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's unseminary this week's unseminary this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody Welcome to podcast well hey everybody Welcome to podcast well hey everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the host here I'm just so glad that the host here I'm just so glad that the host here I'm just so glad that you've tuned in today you know I know you've tuned in today you know I know you've tuned in today you know I know there's a lot going on in your church there's a lot going on in your church there's a lot going on in your church this is one of those really busy weeks this is one of those really busy weeks this is one of those really busy weeks and uh I'm just thankful that you've and uh I'm just thankful that you've and uh I'm just thankful that you've taken some time out plug us in your taken some time out plug us in your taken some time out plug us in your earplugs and your earbuds not your earplugs and your earbuds not your earplugs and your earbuds not your earplugs uh and uh you know today's earplugs uh and uh you know today's earplugs uh and uh you know today's conversation is is going to reward you conversation is is going to reward you conversation is is going to reward you for your time today we've got Julie leam for your time today we've got Julie leam for your time today we've got Julie leam with us from Eastside Church a fantastic with us from Eastside Church a fantastic with us from Eastside Church a fantastic Church in Anaheim California uh Julie is Church in Anaheim California uh Julie is Church in Anaheim California uh Julie is the director of volunteers there uh this the director of volunteers there uh this the director of volunteers there uh this church you may be a familiar we've we um church you may be a familiar we've we um church you may be a familiar we've we um have had uh some folks on in the past have had uh some folks on in the past have had uh some folks on in the past from there uh they have two locations from there uh they have two locations from there uh they have two locations one in California uh one in Minnesota I one in California uh one in Minnesota I one in California uh one in Minnesota I think is where the other location is think is where the other location is think is where the other location is Right which is great this is probably Right which is great this is probably Right which is great this is probably summer times a time you want to be in summer times a time you want to be in summer times a time you want to be in Minnesota you don't want to go there in Minnesota you don't want to go there in Minnesota you don't want to go there in the winter time um currently pastored by

the winter time um currently pastored by the winter time um currently pastored by Gan Apple it's a rather large church Gan Apple it's a rather large church Gan Apple it's a rather large church about 5,000 people so Julie welcome to about 5,000 people so Julie welcome to about 5,000 people so Julie welcome to the show today thanks Rich I'm happy to the show today thanks Rich I'm happy to the show today thanks Rich I'm happy to be here yeah why don't you tell us kind be here yeah why don't you tell us kind be here yeah why don't you tell us kind of give us the flavor of east side and of give us the flavor of east side and of give us the flavor of east side and tell us about your role there okay well tell us about your role there okay well tell us about your role there okay well east side has been in existence for east side has been in existence for east side has been in existence for about 50 years I have literally grown up about 50 years I have literally grown up about 50 years I have literally grown up there at that church and was inolved in there at that church and was inolved in there at that church and was inolved in volunteer roles and Leadership for years volunteer roles and Leadership for years volunteer roles and Leadership for years there and I our current senior pastor there and I our current senior pastor there and I our current senior pastor Jee Apple came on staff about seven Jee Apple came on staff about seven Jee Apple came on staff about seven years ago and he and I went way back to years ago and he and I went way back to years ago and he and I went way back to when he interned at East Side um in his when he interned at East Side um in his when he interned at East Side um in his college Years he lived with my family college Years he lived with my family college Years he lived with my family and so it was just a great big and so it was just a great big and so it was just a great big homecoming when he came back which was a homecoming when he came back which was a homecoming when he came back which was a lot of fun and um but I was always in a lot of fun and um but I was always in a lot of fun and um but I was always in a volunteer role and in leadership and in volunteer role and in leadership and in volunteer role and in leadership and in that capacity and when he came on staff that capacity and when he came on staff that capacity and when he came on staff after he'd been there a couple of years after he'd been there a couple of years after he'd been there a couple of years and he really had changed the vision of and he really had changed the vision of and he really had changed the vision of east side and the direction that we were east side and the direction that we were east side and the direction that we were headed he really um centralized our headed he really um centralized our headed he really um centralized our focus and and created our vision focus and and created our vision focus and and created our vision statement our mission statement and so statement our mission statement and so statement our mission statement and so we knew what we were about we weren't we knew what we were about we weren't we knew what we were about we weren't about a hundred things we were now about about a hundred things we were now about about a hundred things we were now about three things to really mobilize us three things to really mobilize us three things to really mobilize us forward and about two years into his um forward and about two years into his um forward and about two years into his um time with us he and the executive team time with us he and the executive team time with us he and the executive team asked me to come on staff and added this asked me to come on staff and added this asked me to come on staff and added this role of V director of volunteers to the role of V director of volunteers to the role of V director of volunteers to the staff okay very cool and um and so that staff okay very cool and um and so that staff okay very cool and um and so that was new to me to become on Church staff was new to me to become on Church staff was new to me to become on Church staff I had always been in a volunteer role so I had always been in a volunteer role so I had always been in a volunteer role so I think that's part of maybe why they

I think that's part of maybe why they I think that's part of maybe why they asked me was because I know the life of asked me was because I know the life of asked me was because I know the life of a volunteer absolutely uh very well so a volunteer absolutely uh very well so a volunteer absolutely uh very well so this is a new role to east side and at this is a new role to east side and at this is a new role to east side and at the time we were very um Silo ministri the time we were very um Silo ministri the time we were very um Silo ministri as far as there was no standardized as far as there was no standardized as far as there was no standardized practice for how different departments practice for how different departments practice for how different departments went about recruiting volunteers went about recruiting volunteers went about recruiting volunteers maintaining volunteers onboarding maintaining volunteers onboarding maintaining volunteers onboarding volunteers celebrating volunteers some volunteers celebrating volunteers some volunteers celebrating volunteers some departments were knocking it out of the departments were knocking it out of the departments were knocking it out of the park some departments were really park some departments were really park some departments were really struggling there was a whole lot of struggling there was a whole lot of struggling there was a whole lot of inconsistencies and they just knew that inconsistencies and they just knew that inconsistencies and they just knew that this for our church to grow that it was this for our church to grow that it was this for our church to grow that it was going to be the DNA of our volunteer going to be the DNA of our volunteer going to be the DNA of our volunteer culture needed to be changed and culture needed to be changed and culture needed to be changed and enhanced and really um solidified into enhanced and really um solidified into enhanced and really um solidified into something really electric across campus something really electric across campus something really electric across campus regardless of what department was regardless of what department was regardless of what department was happening and that we knew that we need happening and that we knew that we need happening and that we knew that we need volunteers to be able to grow and take volunteers to be able to grow and take volunteers to be able to grow and take us into this future to kind of carry out us into this future to kind of carry out us into this future to kind of carry out Jean's vision for the church so that's Jean's vision for the church so that's Jean's vision for the church so that's why they prioritize the role absolutely why they prioritize the role absolutely why they prioritize the role absolutely well you know I think it's natural um it well you know I think it's natural um it well you know I think it's natural um it may not be good well it's probably not may not be good well it's probably not may not be good well it's probably not good this kind of siloing that can good this kind of siloing that can good this kind of siloing that can happen in Ministry by that we mean you happen in Ministry by that we mean you happen in Ministry by that we mean you know kind of each department is doing know kind of each department is doing know kind of each department is doing its own thing and so you've got you know its own thing and so you've got you know its own thing and so you've got you know kids ministry they're pretty convinced kids ministry they're pretty convinced kids ministry they're pretty convinced that the way they're doing it is right that the way they're doing it is right that the way they're doing it is right because they have to run people to you because they have to run people to you because they have to run people to you know you know background checks and then know you know background checks and then know you know background checks and then you know the folks in you know um you you know the folks in you know um you you know the folks in you know um you know groups Ministry they're they're know groups Ministry they're they're know groups Ministry they're they're pretty fired up about the way they pretty fired up about the way they pretty fired up about the way they process volunteers because they want to process volunteers because they want to process volunteers because they want to you know dig deep into people's lives you know dig deep into people's lives you know dig deep into people's lives and you know then the music guys don't and you know then the music guys don't and you know then the music guys don't have any process you know that's just

have any process you know that's just have any process you know that's just the kind of normal that's normal right the kind of normal that's normal right the kind of normal that's normal right and that I only say that because I I can and that I only say that because I I can and that I only say that because I I can totally identify um that is you know I totally identify um that is you know I totally identify um that is you know I think so many churches are in that boat think so many churches are in that boat think so many churches are in that boat so how did you go about trying to tackle so how did you go about trying to tackle so how did you go about trying to tackle that uh that issue well I was very that uh that issue well I was very that uh that issue well I was very blessed with the leadership that brought blessed with the leadership that brought blessed with the leadership that brought me on because again I was the greenest me on because again I was the greenest me on because again I was the greenest person on staff I mean I'd never done person on staff I mean I'd never done person on staff I mean I'd never done this church thing for a living and the this church thing for a living and the this church thing for a living and the executive team brought me on it was executive team brought me on it was executive team brought me on it was their vision and when I speak to their vision and when I speak to their vision and when I speak to different churches or Retreats or different churches or Retreats or different churches or Retreats or anything like that I always talk about anything like that I always talk about anything like that I always talk about if you want to change your your if you want to change your your if you want to change your your volunteer culture it has to start with volunteer culture it has to start with volunteer culture it has to start with changing your staff culture and it has changing your staff culture and it has changing your staff culture and it has to have a lot of vision that's coming to have a lot of vision that's coming to have a lot of vision that's coming down from the top all the way from the down from the top all the way from the down from the top all the way from the executive leadership down that they are executive leadership down that they are executive leadership down that they are bought into this this value of the bought into this this value of the bought into this this value of the church that it cannot function in a church that it cannot function in a church that it cannot function in a healthy way without a healthy Church healthy way without a healthy Church healthy way without a healthy Church volunteer culture and that won't happen volunteer culture and that won't happen volunteer culture and that won't happen on its own right you know it has to some on its own right you know it has to some on its own right you know it has to some structure and organization to it so the structure and organization to it so the structure and organization to it so the executive team worked directly with me executive team worked directly with me executive team worked directly with me um at the very beginning when I was um at the very beginning when I was um at the very beginning when I was first on boarding and then we then first on boarding and then we then first on boarding and then we then worked with their staff so our senior worked with their staff so our senior worked with their staff so our senior Minister was um working with our our Minister was um working with our our Minister was um working with our our staff to just be able to cast this staff to just be able to cast this staff to just be able to cast this Vision that this role was coming on we Vision that this role was coming on we Vision that this role was coming on we were going to create some new standards were going to create some new standards were going to create some new standards because we're going to raise the bar because we're going to raise the bar because we're going to raise the bar about how we took care of volunteers and about how we took care of volunteers and about how we took care of volunteers and that it was going to rock in every that it was going to rock in every that it was going to rock in every Department right and it was going to we Department right and it was going to we Department right and it was going to we were all going to be in unison with this were all going to be in unison with this were all going to be in unison with this thing and we really started working on thing and we really started working on thing and we really started working on changing our staff culture before we changing our staff culture before we changing our staff culture before we tried to influence our volunteer culture

tried to influence our volunteer culture tried to influence our volunteer culture which paved the way then for me to come which paved the way then for me to come which paved the way then for me to come in with some new processes and in with some new processes and in with some new processes and procedures if I came in with new procedures if I came in with new procedures if I came in with new processes and procedures but nobody was processes and procedures but nobody was processes and procedures but nobody was catching the vision right I'm just catching the vision right I'm just catching the vision right I'm just pushing that rock up the hill by myself pushing that rock up the hill by myself pushing that rock up the hill by myself right absolutely so um so that was just right absolutely so um so that was just right absolutely so um so that was just a huge blessing to me that I was on a huge blessing to me that I was on a huge blessing to me that I was on board in that way and um because I work board in that way and um because I work board in that way and um because I work with lots of other very large churches with lots of other very large churches with lots of other very large churches and they don't even have this role so and they don't even have this role so and they don't even have this role so there's still very much Silo ministry there's still very much Silo ministry there's still very much Silo ministry right which ends up being that these right which ends up being that these right which ends up being that these departments are competing with each departments are competing with each departments are competing with each other for volunteers and the volunteers other for volunteers and the volunteers other for volunteers and the volunteers are growing fatigued hearing it you know are growing fatigued hearing it you know are growing fatigued hearing it you know come serve in my department no come come serve in my department no come come serve in my department no come serve in mine you know yes and it just serve in mine you know yes and it just serve in mine you know yes and it just gets exhausting absolutely so well I gets exhausting absolutely so well I gets exhausting absolutely so well I thing I appreciate you know obviously I thing I appreciate you know obviously I thing I appreciate you know obviously I think you're obviously underlining a think you're obviously underlining a think you're obviously underlining a super important point it's got to start super important point it's got to start super important point it's got to start at the top there has to be vision for it at the top there has to be vision for it at the top there has to be vision for it um which is a nice humble way to say um which is a nice humble way to say um which is a nice humble way to say that you know to try to deflect some of that you know to try to deflect some of that you know to try to deflect some of the good things that have happened there the good things that have happened there the good things that have happened there but you might must have done something but you might must have done something but you might must have done something to try to help that alignment it's one to try to help that alignment it's one to try to help that alignment it's one thing to have kind of the big Vision thing to have kind of the big Vision thing to have kind of the big Vision what were you doing to kind of help the what were you doing to kind of help the what were you doing to kind of help the alignment to actually move people alignment to actually move people alignment to actually move people towards that right well one key um thing towards that right well one key um thing towards that right well one key um thing that we did that was decided to create that we did that was decided to create that we did that was decided to create to identify a person in each department to identify a person in each department to identify a person in each department a staff person in each department that a staff person in each department that a staff person in each department that was responsible for the onboarding of was responsible for the onboarding of was responsible for the onboarding of volunteers okay great and and the volunteers okay great and and the volunteers okay great and and the overall health of the volunteer culture overall health of the volunteer culture overall health of the volunteer culture within that department so I created within that department so I created within that department so I created standards and each department I work standards and each department I work standards and each department I work with what we call that we call that role with what we call that we call that role with what we call that we call that role a volunteer champ yep so every a volunteer champ yep so every a volunteer champ yep so every department has a volunteer champ it's a department has a volunteer champ it's a department has a volunteer champ it's a staff person I work with the volunteer

staff person I work with the volunteer staff person I work with the volunteer Champs then to say okay here's how we're Champs then to say okay here's how we're Champs then to say okay here's how we're going to follow up with volunteers going to follow up with volunteers going to follow up with volunteers here's how we're going to track them in here's how we're going to track them in here's how we're going to track them in um in a database system here's what our um in a database system here's what our um in a database system here's what our new standards are for for you new standards are for for you new standards are for for you know solving problems adding new know solving problems adding new know solving problems adding new volunteer roles to different departments volunteer roles to different departments volunteer roles to different departments those kinds of things so I can highlight those kinds of things so I can highlight those kinds of things so I can highlight for you the different the big things for you the different the big things for you the different the big things that we had to get in place but the the that we had to get in place but the the that we had to get in place but the the thing that made it most successful was thing that made it most successful was thing that made it most successful was there was an identified staff person in there was an identified staff person in there was an identified staff person in each department to carry it out and I each department to carry it out and I each department to carry it out and I had alignment with the executive staff had alignment with the executive staff had alignment with the executive staff right get a big stick and and and I had right get a big stick and and and I had right get a big stick and and and I had access to those volunteer Champs so it access to those volunteer Champs so it access to those volunteer Champs so it takes a lot of coordination because takes a lot of coordination because takes a lot of coordination because there's really a dotted line from my there's really a dotted line from my there's really a dotted line from my role to to their their from the role to to their their from the role to to their their from the directors and then my role I have a directors and then my role I have a directors and then my role I have a dotted line to their staff yes so I have dotted line to their staff yes so I have dotted line to their staff yes so I have to work in a lot of coordination with to work in a lot of coordination with to work in a lot of coordination with them so we're not asking too much of them so we're not asking too much of them so we're not asking too much of that staff person at one time yes um but that staff person at one time yes um but that staff person at one time yes um but it's worked beautifully to be able to it's worked beautifully to be able to it's worked beautifully to be able to make sure that the standards are make sure that the standards are make sure that the standards are delivered and I can maintain inspection delivered and I can maintain inspection delivered and I can maintain inspection of those what would you say your kind of of those what would you say your kind of of those what would you say your kind of you know orientation to you know those you know orientation to you know those you know orientation to you know those champions in that those early phases was champions in that those early phases was champions in that those early phases was it more like hey let's collaborate it more like hey let's collaborate it more like hey let's collaborate together to find the best practices together to find the best practices together to find the best practices among our team and then we're going to among our team and then we're going to among our team and then we're going to align those things or was it kind of align those things or was it kind of align those things or was it kind of you've been charged to go and figure out you've been charged to go and figure out you've been charged to go and figure out what the you know the best IDE was and what the you know the best IDE was and what the you know the best IDE was and bring it back how did you kind of bring it back how did you kind of bring it back how did you kind of position yourself great question it was position yourself great question it was position yourself great question it was the ladder it was it was me being the ladder it was it was me being the ladder it was it was me being charged by Gan he resourc me with some

charged by Gan he resourc me with some charged by Gan he resourc me with some other people in these roles at other other people in these roles at other other people in these roles at other churches to network with and um and churches to network with and um and churches to network with and um and bring back some of their best practices bring back some of their best practices bring back some of their best practices but also the executive team remember and but also the executive team remember and but also the executive team remember and I were all working together and coming I were all working together and coming I were all working together and coming up with our own ideas so we we work up with our own ideas so we we work up with our own ideas so we we work together as a team I did some research together as a team I did some research together as a team I did some research with and networking with other churches with and networking with other churches with and networking with other churches and then came back with our best plan and then came back with our best plan and then came back with our best plan and really there were um taking a peek and really there were um taking a peek and really there were um taking a peek at my notes there were three or four at my notes there were three or four at my notes there were three or four things that we did we created a a things that we did we created a a things that we did we created a a centralized system for volunteers one centralized system for volunteers one centralized system for volunteers one place that they went to express their to place that they went to express their to place that they went to express their to sign up to to volunteer yeah tell us sign up to to volunteer yeah tell us sign up to to volunteer yeah tell us about that what what was you know if I'm about that what what was you know if I'm about that what what was you know if I'm at East Side today and I'm like I'm at East Side today and I'm like I'm at East Side today and I'm like I'm sitting in your service maybe I've I've sitting in your service maybe I've I've sitting in your service maybe I've I've gone to first steps with Jean I you know gone to first steps with Jean I you know gone to first steps with Jean I you know I I am kind of interested in the church I I am kind of interested in the church I I am kind of interested in the church what would I how how do I express what would I how how do I express what would I how how do I express interest what does that look like for interest what does that look like for interest what does that look like for sure sure um on a given weekend you can sure sure um on a given weekend you can sure sure um on a given weekend you can just walk up to our information desk and just walk up to our information desk and just walk up to our information desk and they'll take you to our website and sign they'll take you to our website and sign they'll take you to our website and sign you up for whatever Department that you up for whatever Department that you up for whatever Department that you're interested in so our we a website you're interested in so our we a website you're interested in so our we a website is one way to enter the portal you walk is one way to enter the portal you walk is one way to enter the portal you walk up on the weekend to the information up on the weekend to the information up on the weekend to the information they're going to go to our website to they're going to go to our website to they're going to go to our website to enter you into our portal if we ever enter you into our portal if we ever enter you into our portal if we ever have any recruitments that are happening have any recruitments that are happening have any recruitments that are happening on campus all that information goes into on campus all that information goes into on campus all that information goes into the portal so there might be several the portal so there might be several the portal so there might be several different streams but they all go to the different streams but they all go to the different streams but they all go to the same place and so we created one same place and so we created one same place and so we created one centralized way that we we input the centralized way that we we input the centralized way that we we input the information into our system and then it information into our system and then it information into our system and then it got distributed to the right department got distributed to the right department got distributed to the right department so you could come in this front door and so you could come in this front door and so you could come in this front door and say everybody comes in the front door say everybody comes in the front door say everybody comes in the front door and then you tell us what room you want and then you tell us what room you want and then you tell us what room you want to go in okay right you want to go to to go in okay right you want to go to to go in okay right you want to go to creative arts you want to go to creative arts you want to go to creative arts you want to go to Children's you want to go to guest

Children's you want to go to guest Children's you want to go to guest services and then it goes directly there services and then it goes directly there services and then it goes directly there and from there then our Vol those and from there then our Vol those and from there then our Vol those volunteer Champs in those departments volunteer Champs in those departments volunteer Champs in those departments get notified yep and they do that start get notified yep and they do that start get notified yep and they do that start their follow-up and I've already trained their follow-up and I've already trained their follow-up and I've already trained them on what the follow-up standards are them on what the follow-up standards are them on what the follow-up standards are so that's the second thing we had to so that's the second thing we had to so that's the second thing we had to create a way for volunteers to get in create a way for volunteers to get in create a way for volunteers to get in but didn't matter where they came from but didn't matter where they came from but didn't matter where they came from they all came into the same place then they all came into the same place then they all came into the same place then the second was we had to create the second was we had to create the second was we had to create follow-up standards for all the follow-up standards for all the follow-up standards for all the Departments how are we going to follow Departments how are we going to follow Departments how are we going to follow up so um I can drill down into that if up so um I can drill down into that if up so um I can drill down into that if you want but that was just mainly the you want but that was just mainly the you want but that was just mainly the The Next Step was I'm sure every The Next Step was I'm sure every The Next Step was I'm sure every Department follows up with everyone and Department follows up with everyone and Department follows up with everyone and every you know every person gets placed every you know every person gets placed every you know every person gets placed in obviously a little tongue and cheek in obviously a little tongue and cheek in obviously a little tongue and cheek what happens if things you know if a what happens if things you know if a what happens if things you know if a volunteer falls through the cracks or volunteer falls through the cracks or volunteer falls through the cracks or does your how does your system deal with does your how does your system deal with does your how does your system deal with kind of um you know hey this maybe this kind of um you know hey this maybe this kind of um you know hey this maybe this contact is going cold it's been a while contact is going cold it's been a while contact is going cold it's been a while since we've talked to them how are you since we've talked to them how are you since we've talked to them how are you how are you you know tracking those kind how are you you know tracking those kind how are you you know tracking those kind of of of right well I inspect with my team right well I inspect with my team right well I inspect with my team everything that's happening on a weekly everything that's happening on a weekly everything that's happening on a weekly basis so that's a big part of it is so basis so that's a big part of it is so basis so that's a big part of it is so you're gathering with all those you're gathering with all those you're gathering with all those Champions every week or you're looking Champions every week or you're looking Champions every week or you're looking at a report and kind of talk I'm looking at a report and kind of talk I'm looking at a report and kind of talk I'm looking at a report and following up with them at a report and following up with them at a report and following up with them and then we We Gather with the Champions and then we We Gather with the Champions and then we We Gather with the Champions um sometimes monthly and I want to get um sometimes monthly and I want to get um sometimes monthly and I want to get back to that where we're aligning that a back to that where we're aligning that a back to that where we're aligning that a little bit more um and sometimes it was little bit more um and sometimes it was little bit more um and sometimes it was weekly depending on if we had new things weekly depending on if we had new things weekly depending on if we had new things that we were implementing and and we've that we were implementing and and we've that we were implementing and and we've got to train ourselves and get the got to train ourselves and get the got to train ourselves and get the practices going we'd learn from from practices going we'd learn from from practices going we'd learn from from each other so um but weekly we're each other so um but weekly we're each other so um but weekly we're running reports and monthly we're running reports and monthly we're running reports and monthly we're running reports so we're inspecting running reports so we're inspecting running reports so we're inspecting what's happening so we have a really what's happening so we have a really what's happening so we have a really good tracking system that allows us to good tracking system that allows us to good tracking system that allows us to be able to do that and um and so then we

be able to do that and um and so then we be able to do that and um and so then we at any point in time know where every at any point in time know where every at any point in time know where every individual volunteer that's coming into individual volunteer that's coming into individual volunteer that's coming into our system what their status is and so our system what their status is and so our system what their status is and so we've made really clear our standards to we've made really clear our standards to we've made really clear our standards to our volunteer Champs that you know we're our volunteer Champs that you know we're our volunteer Champs that you know we're going to respond within we give them 48 going to respond within we give them 48 going to respond within we give them 48 hours but it's really 24 hours before hours but it's really 24 hours before hours but it's really 24 hours before that first response goes out we make that first response goes out we make that first response goes out we make three attempts to contact a volunteer three attempts to contact a volunteer three attempts to contact a volunteer before we consider them before we consider them before we consider them unresponsive um and we have you know unresponsive um and we have you know unresponsive um and we have you know just different things to do to be able just different things to do to be able just different things to do to be able to track it all so that's the beauty of to track it all so that's the beauty of to track it all so that's the beauty of it is that it's very sustainable but if it is that it's very sustainable but if it is that it's very sustainable but if you don't inspect what you expect forget you don't inspect what you expect forget you don't inspect what you expect forget it preach come on come on um no that's it preach come on come on um no that's it preach come on come on um no that's great I want to underline for our great I want to underline for our great I want to underline for our listeners that listen to what we're listeners that listen to what we're listeners that listen to what we're talking about here managing the data talking about here managing the data talking about here managing the data about your people is the beginning of a about your people is the beginning of a about your people is the beginning of a pastoral care process when your church pastoral care process when your church pastoral care process when your church grows you got to manage that data very grows you got to manage that data very grows you got to manage that data very well and take care of it when someone well and take care of it when someone well and take care of it when someone expresses when someone raises their hand expresses when someone raises their hand expresses when someone raises their hand and says hey I'm interested if we don't and says hey I'm interested if we don't and says hey I'm interested if we don't go out of our way to be proactive to go out of our way to be proactive to go out of our way to be proactive to follow up within 24 to 48 hours to jump follow up within 24 to 48 hours to jump follow up within 24 to 48 hours to jump on that and to say hey I'm going to try on that and to say hey I'm going to try on that and to say hey I'm going to try to keep the you know to close this you to keep the you know to close this you to keep the you know to close this you know issue um that's how people fall know issue um that's how people fall know issue um that's how people fall through cracks that's how you know through cracks that's how you know through cracks that's how you know that's how a big church just feels like that's how a big church just feels like that's how a big church just feels like a big church not a community and so I a big church not a community and so I a big church not a community and so I appreciate that that's cool yeah and appreciate that that's cool yeah and appreciate that that's cool yeah and sometimes people can think those sometimes people can think those sometimes people can think those processes and those details just are processes and those details just are processes and those details just are kind of dry but I our experience has kind of dry but I our experience has kind of dry but I our experience has been quite the opposite is that these been quite the opposite is that these been quite the opposite is that these are all these numbers represent people are all these numbers represent people are all these numbers represent people and they all have a story behind it and and they all have a story behind it and and they all have a story behind it and so our volunteer Champs are just so our volunteer Champs are just so our volunteer Champs are just passionate about what they're doing with passionate about what they're doing with passionate about what they're doing with getting these people connected and if

getting these people connected and if getting these people connected and if there's a glitch in the system they're there's a glitch in the system they're there's a glitch in the system they're reporting it to me before I even notice reporting it to me before I even notice reporting it to me before I even notice it and those kinds of things because it and those kinds of things because it and those kinds of things because they know it matters yeah absolutely they know it matters yeah absolutely they know it matters yeah absolutely what what database system are you using what what database system are you using what what database system are you using at the core you know of your uh Church at the core you know of your uh Church at the core you know of your uh Church community Builder Church community build community Builder Church community build community Builder Church community build CCB yeah that's great they're a they're CCB yeah that's great they're a they're CCB yeah that's great they're a they're a great provider they do a great uh a great provider they do a great uh a great provider they do a great uh great job for sure all right so that's great job for sure all right so that's great job for sure all right so that's kind of on the front endend that gives kind of on the front endend that gives kind of on the front endend that gives me a sense of you know gives us a sense me a sense of you know gives us a sense me a sense of you know gives us a sense of what's going on there what else are of what's going on there what else are of what's going on there what else are you doing to kind of Ensure alignment you doing to kind of Ensure alignment you doing to kind of Ensure alignment across the board you know to make sure across the board you know to make sure across the board you know to make sure that there's kind of common standards in that there's kind of common standards in that there's kind of common standards in the way people the way people the way people serve in the way people serve their serve in the way people serve their serve in the way people serve their roles you know do you have like job roles you know do you have like job roles you know do you have like job descriptions that we absolutely do yeah descriptions that we absolutely do yeah descriptions that we absolutely do yeah we have job descriptions um we take the we have job descriptions um we take the we have job descriptions um we take the time to make sure that they're we're time to make sure that they're we're time to make sure that they're we're evaluating our roles um on a regular evaluating our roles um on a regular evaluating our roles um on a regular basis at least on an annual basis and if basis at least on an annual basis and if basis at least on an annual basis and if anybody in any Department is going to be anybody in any Department is going to be anybody in any Department is going to be adding a volunteer role or feels the adding a volunteer role or feels the adding a volunteer role or feels the need for it they're going to have a need for it they're going to have a need for it they're going to have a conversation with me first because conversation with me first because conversation with me first because there's a whole lot of detailed things there's a whole lot of detailed things there's a whole lot of detailed things in our data process that have to be you in our data process that have to be you in our data process that have to be you know bases that have to be tagged but know bases that have to be tagged but know bases that have to be tagged but mostly we got to make sure that there's mostly we got to make sure that there's mostly we got to make sure that there's a a a qualified leader for any new a a a qualified leader for any new a a a qualified leader for any new volunteer role and that's a big part of volunteer role and that's a big part of volunteer role and that's a big part of what we're looking at is because our what we're looking at is because our what we're looking at is because our model is we want it to be a big church model is we want it to be a big church model is we want it to be a big church to be a small church and that happens to be a small church and that happens to be a small church and that happens with the right siiz volun right siiz with the right siiz volun right siiz with the right siiz volun right siiz teams that are being led by by a teams that are being led by by a teams that are being led by by a volunteer leader and so one volunteer volunteer leader and so one volunteer volunteer leader and so one volunteer leader cannot adequately lead 300 people leader cannot adequately lead 300 people leader cannot adequately lead 300 people and have personal relationships and know and have personal relationships and know and have personal relationships and know where they are spiritually to be able to where they are spiritually to be able to where they are spiritually to be able to encourage them to a spiritual Next Step encourage them to a spiritual Next Step encourage them to a spiritual Next Step so we're constantly watching that to so we're constantly watching that to so we're constantly watching that to make sure we've got qualified leaders

make sure we've got qualified leaders make sure we've got qualified leaders that they they meet our qualifications that they they meet our qualifications that they they meet our qualifications for a leader because we look at them as for a leader because we look at them as for a leader because we look at them as spiritual leaders not just tactical spiritual leaders not just tactical spiritual leaders not just tactical leaders and um and that they're well leaders and um and that they're well leaders and um and that they're well trained and that them we've got trained and that them we've got trained and that them we've got everything in place so that they're everything in place so that they're everything in place so that they're going to have a successful experience going to have a successful experience going to have a successful experience leading their team of volunteers all leading their team of volunteers all leading their team of volunteers all right so I I'm sure through this roll right so I I'm sure through this roll right so I I'm sure through this roll out as you were kind of trying to break out as you were kind of trying to break out as you were kind of trying to break down the silos and get some alignment down the silos and get some alignment down the silos and get some alignment you know there was probably an area that you know there was probably an area that you know there was probably an area that you know took a little longer to kind of you know took a little longer to kind of you know took a little longer to kind of get on board um how did you work with get on board um how did you work with get on board um how did you work with that you don't need to name any names we that you don't need to name any names we that you don't need to name any names we don't need to out anybody but how did don't need to out anybody but how did don't need to out anybody but how did you kind of uh bring that department you kind of uh bring that department you kind of uh bring that department along or bring those leaders along what along or bring those leaders along what along or bring those leaders along what did you learn through that process oh did you learn through that process oh did you learn through that process oh that's a great question um I think it's that's a great question um I think it's that's a great question um I think it's just consistency I kind of like a bad just consistency I kind of like a bad just consistency I kind of like a bad Penny I just keep showing up I you know Penny I just keep showing up I you know Penny I just keep showing up I you know our friend Greg Curtis always says Julie our friend Greg Curtis always says Julie our friend Greg Curtis always says Julie you are water and I am the Grand Canyon you are water and I am the Grand Canyon you are water and I am the Grand Canyon and you are just going to wear me down a and you are just going to wear me down a and you are just going to wear me down a drip at a time like I just kept coming drip at a time like I just kept coming drip at a time like I just kept coming back and trying to build relationship back and trying to build relationship back and trying to build relationship and lean into that I would and keep and lean into that I would and keep and lean into that I would and keep reiterating things a lot of times I felt reiterating things a lot of times I felt reiterating things a lot of times I felt for the the staff people because there for the the staff people because there for the the staff people because there would be some confusion they go okay would be some confusion they go okay would be some confusion they go okay who's my boss right you're not my boss who's my boss right you're not my boss who's my boss right you're not my boss my boss is over here telling me one my boss is over here telling me one my boss is over here telling me one thing and then you're over here giving thing and then you're over here giving thing and then you're over here giving me directives so we'd really I'd really me directives so we'd really I'd really me directives so we'd really I'd really have to work with the their boss and the have to work with the their boss and the have to work with the their boss and the executive director to make sure we had a executive director to make sure we had a executive director to make sure we had a clear picture that we weren't clear picture that we weren't clear picture that we weren't overwhelming the volunteer champ but overwhelming the volunteer champ but overwhelming the volunteer champ but that they were also that their executive that they were also that their executive that they were also that their executive director was also empowering me in a way director was also empowering me in a way director was also empowering me in a way that I couldn't do for myself without that I couldn't do for myself without that I couldn't do for myself without their voice in it to say no we got to

their voice in it to say no we got to their voice in it to say no we got to work together on this whole thing this work together on this whole thing this work together on this whole thing this is part of your job description and is part of your job description and is part of your job description and Julie's just leading that piece of it Julie's just leading that piece of it Julie's just leading that piece of it yep so um yeah that's where I di into my yep so um yeah that's where I di into my yep so um yeah that's where I di into my relational skills yeah and you what relational skills yeah and you what relational skills yeah and you what you're describing there um for folks you're describing there um for folks you're describing there um for folks that may not be familiar is what's that may not be familiar is what's that may not be familiar is what's called a matrix or organization where called a matrix or organization where called a matrix or organization where you've got you know people that they you've got you know people that they you've got you know people that they really end up having kind of two really end up having kind of two really end up having kind of two supervisors you've got your in this supervisors you've got your in this supervisors you've got your in this particular area they had their um their particular area they had their um their particular area they had their um their direct their their solid line as it direct their their solid line as it direct their their solid line as it sometimes you know referred to but then sometimes you know referred to but then sometimes you know referred to but then you know you'll have folks like Julie you know you'll have folks like Julie you know you'll have folks like Julie that are dotted line that are are kind that are dotted line that are are kind that are dotted line that are are kind of subject matter experts who are being of subject matter experts who are being of subject matter experts who are being charged by the organization to make a charged by the organization to make a charged by the organization to make a difference in this area across a wide difference in this area across a wide difference in this area across a wide variety of areas and you know I just variety of areas and you know I just variety of areas and you know I just think it's it's been cool to kind of think it's it's been cool to kind of think it's it's been cool to kind of hear inside of that today is there hear inside of that today is there hear inside of that today is there anything else you want to share before anything else you want to share before anything else you want to share before we move on with the rest of our episode we move on with the rest of our episode we move on with the rest of our episode um probably a couple things that I think um probably a couple things that I think um probably a couple things that I think are really important besides getting are really important besides getting are really important besides getting your you know your processes and your you know your processes and your you know your processes and procedures in line as far as creating a procedures in line as far as creating a procedures in line as far as creating a way that volunteers can sign up and way that volunteers can sign up and way that volunteers can sign up and creating standards for followup and creating standards for followup and creating standards for followup and tracking and evaluating your followup tracking and evaluating your followup tracking and evaluating your followup would be that um how timely you follow would be that um how timely you follow would be that um how timely you follow up on volunteers is the number one up on volunteers is the number one up on volunteers is the number one impactor in growing your volunteer teams impactor in growing your volunteer teams impactor in growing your volunteer teams oh say that again I want people to hear oh say that again I want people to hear oh say that again I want people to hear lean in on this this is important people lean in on this this is important people lean in on this this is important people how how timely you follow up with your how how timely you follow up with your how how timely you follow up with your volunteers is probably the number one volunteers is probably the number one volunteers is probably the number one variable that impacts the your growing variable that impacts the your growing variable that impacts the your growing your volunteer teams so true what H how your volunteer teams so true what H how your volunteer teams so true what H how have you seen that work out in your have you seen that work out in your have you seen that work out in your ministry well it's you know they just ministry well it's you know they just ministry well it's you know they just those leads just grow cold if if those leads just grow cold if if those leads just grow cold if if someone's taken a step to be brave

someone's taken a step to be brave someone's taken a step to be brave enough to step forward and say I'd like enough to step forward and say I'd like enough to step forward and say I'd like to join a team and then nobody responds to join a team and then nobody responds to join a team and then nobody responds to them what are what are you going to to them what are what are you going to to them what are what are you going to feel from that you're going to feel like feel from that you're going to feel like feel from that you're going to feel like I I got I got lost in this big huge I I got I got lost in this big huge I I got I got lost in this big huge church I'm not want they really say one church I'm not want they really say one church I'm not want they really say one thing but they mean another they say thing but they mean another they say thing but they mean another they say they want you on their team but they they want you on their team but they they want you on their team but they really don't want you on their team I really don't want you on their team I really don't want you on their team I don't matter all these kinds of things don't matter all these kinds of things don't matter all these kinds of things now that's where it goes back to the now that's where it goes back to the now that's where it goes back to the vision our executive team knew if we get vision our executive team knew if we get vision our executive team knew if we get a healthy Church culture I mean a a healthy Church culture I mean a a healthy Church culture I mean a healthy volunteer culture going we're healthy volunteer culture going we're healthy volunteer culture going we're going to grow our church it's going to going to grow our church it's going to going to grow our church it's going to go all the way down to the dollars in go all the way down to the dollars in go all the way down to the dollars in the tithing bucket y totally because if the tithing bucket y totally because if the tithing bucket y totally because if they're invested and they're going to they're invested and they're going to they're invested and they're going to stay you're more likely to give to what stay you're more likely to give to what stay you're more likely to give to what you're invested to and it just grows you're invested to and it just grows you're invested to and it just grows exponentially because of that so how exponentially because of that so how exponentially because of that so how quickly you make that first phone call quickly you make that first phone call quickly you make that first phone call is the make or break there absolutely is the make or break there absolutely is the make or break there absolutely we've talked about internally at our we've talked about internally at our we've talked about internally at our church that we picture these kind of um church that we picture these kind of um church that we picture these kind of um opportunities as we've just picked fruit opportunities as we've just picked fruit opportunities as we've just picked fruit off a tree and we' put it in a basket at off a tree and we' put it in a basket at off a tree and we' put it in a basket at the bottom of the tree that fruit if we the bottom of the tree that fruit if we the bottom of the tree that fruit if we leave it at the bottom of the tree it leave it at the bottom of the tree it leave it at the bottom of the tree it will rot it will go you know that's a will rot it will go you know that's a will rot it will go you know that's a lovely word picture yes it tastes very lovely word picture yes it tastes very lovely word picture yes it tastes very good the moment you pick it off the tree good the moment you pick it off the tree good the moment you pick it off the tree and there is a Decay that happens over and there is a Decay that happens over and there is a Decay that happens over time and and you know if if I like what time and and you know if if I like what time and and you know if if I like what you're saying responding in 24 listen if you're saying responding in 24 listen if you're saying responding in 24 listen if you could respond within 12 if you could you could respond within 12 if you could you could respond within 12 if you could respond you know even faster than that respond you know even faster than that respond you know even faster than that that's that's great you know that's that's that's great you know that's that's that's great you know that's that's a great thing to to leave people that's a great thing to to leave people that's a great thing to to leave people with today for sure this is the

with today for sure this is the with today for sure this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary U we're going to jump taught in seminary U we're going to jump taught in seminary U we're going to jump into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask uh similar the episode where we ask uh similar the episode where we ask uh similar questions everybody that's on the show questions everybody that's on the show questions everybody that's on the show super excited uh for Jess Julie lean to super excited uh for Jess Julie lean to super excited uh for Jess Julie lean to be on the the show today we had a great be on the the show today we had a great be on the the show today we had a great conversation all you know today this has conversation all you know today this has conversation all you know today this has been great what's an online resource been great what's an online resource been great what's an online resource that you're using that's helping you that you're using that's helping you that you're using that's helping you these days you oh come on I'm serious these days you oh come on I'm serious these days you oh come on I'm serious now I have to send you $20 now I have to send you $20 now I have to send you $20 gosh uh yeah it's you I fully enjoying gosh uh yeah it's you I fully enjoying gosh uh yeah it's you I fully enjoying your podcast and the different you know your podcast and the different you know your podcast and the different you know Communications that you send out weekly Communications that you send out weekly Communications that you send out weekly and it's been very helpful well we're and it's been very helpful well we're and it's been very helpful well we're going to move on uh what book have you going to move on uh what book have you going to move on uh what book have you read in the last six months that's read in the last six months that's read in the last six months that's shaping your uh thinking or Ministry shaping your uh thinking or Ministry shaping your uh thinking or Ministry um I've read The Power of Habit yes our um I've read The Power of Habit yes our um I've read The Power of Habit yes our our team read that about six months ago our team read that about six months ago our team read that about six months ago which was good and I'm currently reading which was good and I'm currently reading which was good and I'm currently reading deep and wide by Andy Stanley and just deep and wide by Andy Stanley and just deep and wide by Andy Stanley and just loving that I mean you know how you just loving that I mean you know how you just loving that I mean you know how you just there's not any terribly new Concepts there's not any terribly new Concepts there's not any terribly new Concepts that are coming so as far as I'm in the that are coming so as far as I'm in the that are coming so as far as I'm in the book but it just breathes more life into book but it just breathes more life into book but it just breathes more life into what I already know it's inspiring yeah what I already know it's inspiring yeah what I already know it's inspiring yeah definitely those both are are must read definitely those both are are must read definitely those both are are must read books for sure the fir I've said this in books for sure the fir I've said this in books for sure the fir I've said this in other context but the first third of other context but the first third of other context but the first third of deep and wide I think is a must read deep and wide I think is a must read deep and wide I think is a must read it's like you've got to read that and it's like you've got to read that and it's like you've got to read that and then what happens if you and if only if then what happens if you and if only if then what happens if you and if only if you can only read the the first third you can only read the the first third you can only read the the first third that's fine but then what'll happen is that's fine but then what'll happen is that's fine but then what'll happen is you'll end up reading the whole book you'll end up reading the whole book you'll end up reading the whole book because suck in the first third yes love because suck in the first third yes love because suck in the first third yes love I'm loving that that's where I am is is I'm loving that that's where I am is is I'm loving that that's where I am is is about a third of the way through right about a third of the way through right about a third of the way through right now yeah it's so great um if you could

now yeah it's so great um if you could now yeah it's so great um if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive uh get 15 minutes with any leader alive uh get 15 minutes with any leader alive uh who would you want to get that with and who would you want to get that with and who would you want to get that with and why I would love to meet Pope Francis oh why I would love to meet Pope Francis oh why I would love to meet Pope Francis oh nice yeah very nice yeah very nice yeah very cooler yeah because he's just to me just cooler yeah because he's just to me just cooler yeah because he's just to me just Chang in the face of Catholicism I feel Chang in the face of Catholicism I feel Chang in the face of Catholicism I feel like he's just bringing the gospel to like he's just bringing the gospel to like he's just bringing the gospel to life in that and bringing that using his life in that and bringing that using his life in that and bringing that using his platform to the world and just a really platform to the world and just a really platform to the world and just a really powerful way and I would love to hear powerful way and I would love to hear powerful way and I would love to hear he's a very sweet kind man but the he's a very sweet kind man but the he's a very sweet kind man but the things he says are so wise and strategic things he says are so wise and strategic things he says are so wise and strategic I'm I just want to get behind the scenes I'm I just want to get behind the scenes I'm I just want to get behind the scenes and pick his brain yeah absolutely very and pick his brain yeah absolutely very and pick his brain yeah absolutely very cool well I'm sure trying to keep you cool well I'm sure trying to keep you cool well I'm sure trying to keep you know all the volunteer teams heading in know all the volunteer teams heading in know all the volunteer teams heading in the right direction takes a lot of time the right direction takes a lot of time the right direction takes a lot of time effort and energy what do you do just to effort and energy what do you do just to effort and energy what do you do just to have fun you know in your you know kick have fun you know in your you know kick have fun you know in your you know kick back relax a little bit what what do you back relax a little bit what what do you back relax a little bit what what do you do for fun right well I'm an I'm a do for fun right well I'm an I'm a do for fun right well I'm an I'm a extrovert through and through so family extrovert through and through so family extrovert through and through so family and friends are my favorite way to be and friends are my favorite way to be and friends are my favorite way to be hanging out with you know adventuring I hanging out with you know adventuring I hanging out with you know adventuring I love traveling I love adventuring um we love traveling I love adventuring um we love traveling I love adventuring um we love just you know eating around here love just you know eating around here love just you know eating around here Southern California has fabulous food Southern California has fabulous food Southern California has fabulous food the beach is always a big part of things the beach is always a big part of things the beach is always a big part of things um around here because we're close to um around here because we're close to um around here because we're close to the beach so that's a lovely way to the beach so that's a lovely way to the beach so that's a lovely way to relax and get away too cool well Julie I relax and get away too cool well Julie I relax and get away too cool well Julie I really appreciate you being on the show really appreciate you being on the show really appreciate you being on the show today um if people want to get in touch today um if people want to get in touch today um if people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they with you or with the church how can they with you or with the church how can they do that um they can just email me do that um they can just email me do that um they can just email me directly if they want to if they have directly if they want to if they have directly if they want to if they have any questions and um I'm speaking at any questions and um I'm speaking at any questions and um I'm speaking at something coming up soon so if they something coming up soon so if they something coming up soon so if they wanted information about volunteers and wanted information about volunteers and wanted information about volunteers and oh nice a lot more about this in detail oh nice a lot more about this in detail oh nice a lot more about this in detail so if they were interested in something so if they were interested in something so if they were interested in something like that I could get them information like that I could get them information like that I could get them information about that too cool great and then it's

about that too cool great and then it's about that too cool great and then it's eastside.com right it's eastside.com eastside.com right it's eastside.com eastside.com right it's eastside.com uhhuh great great well thanks so much I uhhuh great great well thanks so much I uhhuh great great well thanks so much I appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today you're welcome thanks for having me rich you're welcome thanks for having me rich you're welcome thanks for having me rich thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary dcom inbox you can sign up at unseminary dcom inbox you can sign up at unseminary dcom and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary tocom don't forget to check unseminary tocom don't forget to check unseminary tocom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unseminary tocom it includes links to unseminary tocom it includes links to unseminary tocom it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks by iTunes and leave a review Thanks by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in taught in taught in seminary