Lane Sebring on Elements of Killer Sermons

L ladies and gentlemen welcome to the L ladies and gentlemen welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for unseminary podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your practical Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody unseminary podcast well hey everybody unseminary podcast well hey everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast my Welcome to the unseminary podcast my Welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the host around these parts name is Rich the host around these parts name is Rich the host around these parts I am so glad that you've decided to I am so glad that you've decided to I am so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us I know that spend some time with us I know that spend some time with us I know that you've got a lot going on uh and honored you've got a lot going on uh and honored you've got a lot going on uh and honored that you would take some time out uh to that you would take some time out uh to that you would take some time out uh to spend with us today I think you're going spend with us today I think you're going spend with us today I think you're going to love today's conversation because to love today's conversation because to love today's conversation because we're talking with the donkey uh laye we're talking with the donkey uh laye we're talking with the donkey uh laye Sebring what welcome to the show Lane Sebring what welcome to the show Lane Sebring what welcome to the show Lane hey it's good to be here Lane's a great hey it's good to be here Lane's a great hey it's good to be here Lane's a great leader um I really hope if you're leader um I really hope if you're leader um I really hope if you're listening in today that you'll get a listening in today that you'll get a listening in today that you'll get a chance to plug in with what he's got chance to plug in with what he's got chance to plug in with what he's got going on he's got a great name for his going on he's got a great name for his going on he's got a great name for his site preaching donkey.com uh really site preaching donkey.com uh really site preaching donkey.com uh really talking to communicators people who are talking to communicators people who are talking to communicators people who are passionate about communicating the passionate about communicating the passionate about communicating the message of Jesus and I think laye he's message of Jesus and I think laye he's message of Jesus and I think laye he's one of these guys you should be one of these guys you should be one of these guys you should be following and paying attention to he's following and paying attention to he's following and paying attention to he's got some great you know practical help got some great you know practical help got some great you know practical help in a lot of ways I feel like um you know in a lot of ways I feel like um you know in a lot of ways I feel like um you know preaching donkey there's a there's a preaching donkey there's a there's a preaching donkey there's a there's a great resonance with some of what we're great resonance with some of what we're great resonance with some of what we're doing at on on Seminary obviously not doing at on on Seminary obviously not doing at on on Seminary obviously not the same but similar just trying to help the same but similar just trying to help the same but similar just trying to help other church leaders out uh so Lane I'm other church leaders out uh so Lane I'm other church leaders out uh so Lane I'm just glad that you're here today why did just glad that you're here today why did just glad that you're here today why did you start uh preaching donkey tell me you start uh preaching donkey tell me you start uh preaching donkey tell me about that yeah uh that's a great about that yeah uh that's a great about that yeah uh that's a great question and thanks for having me on the question and thanks for having me on the question and thanks for having me on the show really love your podcast I love show really love your podcast I love show really love your podcast I love preaching donkey is a fan of all things preaching donkey is a fan of all things preaching donkey is a fan of all things on Seminary we just love you guys so and on Seminary we just love you guys so and on Seminary we just love you guys so and everything you put out is just really everything you put out is just really everything you put out is just really helpful to the church community so so helpful to the church community so so helpful to the church community so so thank you for that thanks for having me thank you for that thanks for having me thank you for that thanks for having me on the show uh preaching donkey started

on the show uh preaching donkey started on the show uh preaching donkey started as this idea when I was in um College my as this idea when I was in um College my as this idea when I was in um College my undergraduate degree I did undergraduate degree I did undergraduate degree I did Communications and and learned kind of Communications and and learned kind of Communications and and learned kind of the basic principles of what it takes to the basic principles of what it takes to the basic principles of what it takes to connect with human beings and then I connect with human beings and then I connect with human beings and then I went to Seminary and I learned how to went to Seminary and I learned how to went to Seminary and I learned how to bore everyone with the Bible um and if bore everyone with the Bible um and if bore everyone with the Bible um and if you're if you're a seminarian I don't you're if you're a seminarian I don't you're if you're a seminarian I don't mean that as an insult I'm just saying mean that as an insult I'm just saying mean that as an insult I'm just saying uh I I just saw coming out a seminary uh I I just saw coming out a seminary uh I I just saw coming out a seminary there was so much emphasis on what what there was so much emphasis on what what there was so much emphasis on what what is important absolutely you know is important absolutely you know is important absolutely you know biblical exegesis and accurately uh biblical exegesis and accurately uh biblical exegesis and accurately uh walking people through a text and having walking people through a text and having walking people through a text and having a basic accurate sermon but I started to a basic accurate sermon but I started to a basic accurate sermon but I started to realize that there wasn't that much of realize that there wasn't that much of realize that there wasn't that much of an emphasis on how to clearly an emphasis on how to clearly an emphasis on how to clearly communicate those ideas and and I just communicate those ideas and and I just communicate those ideas and and I just started to write these ideas down and started to write these ideas down and started to write these ideas down and write these things down that I thought write these things down that I thought write these things down that I thought this might be helpful to look at this this might be helpful to look at this this might be helpful to look at this from a different angle and I'm I'm not from a different angle and I'm I'm not from a different angle and I'm I'm not the first one to ever do this but I just the first one to ever do this but I just the first one to ever do this but I just started blogging and uh just started started blogging and uh just started started blogging and uh just started podcasting and we've got um you know podcasting and we've got um you know podcasting and we've got um you know some people who are connecting with our some people who are connecting with our some people who are connecting with our our material and so kind of started from our material and so kind of started from our material and so kind of started from that idea of most pastors when they that idea of most pastors when they that idea of most pastors when they finish a m message they asked the finish a m message they asked the finish a m message they asked the question did I say all of the words that question did I say all of the words that question did I say all of the words that I needed to say which is not a good I needed to say which is not a good I needed to say which is not a good question to ask the better question to question to ask the better question to question to ask the better question to ask is did they hear what they needed to ask is did they hear what they needed to ask is did they hear what they needed to hear so that they can do something with hear so that they can do something with hear so that they can do something with it and so communication is the primary it and so communication is the primary it and so communication is the primary principle that that kind of fuels principle that that kind of fuels principle that that kind of fuels preaching donkey oh I love it why is it preaching donkey oh I love it why is it preaching donkey oh I love it why is it called preaching donkey okay so in called preaching donkey okay so in called preaching donkey okay so in Numbers 22 there's a story very familiar Numbers 22 there's a story very familiar Numbers 22 there's a story very familiar if you if you know kind of the Old if you if you know kind of the Old if you if you know kind of the Old Testament narratives of a a donkey named Testament narratives of a a donkey named Testament narratives of a a donkey named balum who what who God spoke through balum who what who God spoke through balum who what who God spoke through this Don donkey uh and or I'm sorry this Don donkey uh and or I'm sorry this Don donkey uh and or I'm sorry balum was the man but the his donkey uh

balum was the man but the his donkey uh balum was the man but the his donkey uh spoke to him and God used this donkey to spoke to him and God used this donkey to spoke to him and God used this donkey to communicate a message and so we just say communicate a message and so we just say communicate a message and so we just say preaching donkey if God can speak preaching donkey if God can speak preaching donkey if God can speak through a donkey he can speak through us through a donkey he can speak through us through a donkey he can speak through us and we find a lot of encouragement in and we find a lot of encouragement in and we find a lot of encouragement in that and we don't take ourselves too that and we don't take ourselves too that and we don't take ourselves too seriously because God used a donkey one seriously because God used a donkey one seriously because God used a donkey one time and and he may go back to doing time and and he may go back to doing time and and he may go back to doing that but right now he uses people so that but right now he uses people so that but right now he uses people so when I was a kid uh the balam's donkey when I was a kid uh the balam's donkey when I was a kid uh the balam's donkey story was one of those that you'd look story was one of those that you'd look story was one of those that you'd look up because in the King James it said up because in the King James it said up because in the King James it said balam's ass which was just a great you balam's ass which was just a great you balam's ass which was just a great you know and when you're like a Junior High know and when you're like a Junior High know and when you're like a Junior High kid um that's the kind of stuff that and kid um that's the kind of stuff that and kid um that's the kind of stuff that and Song of Solomon is just great stuff to Song of Solomon is just great stuff to Song of Solomon is just great stuff to look up so oh yeah I used we used to sit look up so oh yeah I used we used to sit look up so oh yeah I used we used to sit in church and just find those verses and in church and just find those verses and in church and just find those verses and give them to each other pass the time give them to each other pass the time give them to each other pass the time yeah that's uh that's fantastic when I yeah that's uh that's fantastic when I yeah that's uh that's fantastic when I was in uh when I was in school preaching was in uh when I was in school preaching was in uh when I was in school preaching class I was in it was like a radical class I was in it was like a radical class I was in it was like a radical idea at the time I don't think it's a idea at the time I don't think it's a idea at the time I don't think it's a radical idea today but at the time our radical idea today but at the time our radical idea today but at the time our preaching Prof um would would roll out preaching Prof um would would roll out preaching Prof um would would roll out um uh David Letterman uh you know video um uh David Letterman uh you know video um uh David Letterman uh you know video VHS tapes that we'd watch and and at the VHS tapes that we'd watch and and at the VHS tapes that we'd watch and and at the time that was such a radical idea like time that was such a radical idea like time that was such a radical idea like oh my goodness we have to look at how oh my goodness we have to look at how oh my goodness we have to look at how people in the culture are are people in the culture are are people in the culture are are communicating um and you know let's kind communicating um and you know let's kind communicating um and you know let's kind of unpack that a little bit what would of unpack that a little bit what would of unpack that a little bit what would you say you know are some of those ways you say you know are some of those ways you say you know are some of those ways that maybe the traditional Seminary that maybe the traditional Seminary that maybe the traditional Seminary approach to you know sermon you know approach to you know sermon you know approach to you know sermon you know preparation and um you know you know preparation and um you know you know preparation and um you know you know presentation maybe isn't covering it presentation maybe isn't covering it presentation maybe isn't covering it isn't doing what it needs to do what are isn't doing what it needs to do what are isn't doing what it needs to do what are some of those things um that you've have some of those things um that you've have some of those things um that you've have in your system or you're encouraging in your system or you're encouraging in your system or you're encouraging your system really for uh communicators your system really for uh communicators your system really for uh communicators well I I think part of it has to do with well I I think part of it has to do with well I I think part of it has to do with the the communicator is always thinking the the communicator is always thinking the the communicator is always thinking about the listener whereas the the

about the listener whereas the the about the listener whereas the the preacher tends to think about the text preacher tends to think about the text preacher tends to think about the text first the text second the text last and first the text second the text last and first the text second the text last and really the text does come first the text really the text does come first the text really the text does come first the text is primary we need to be preaching the is primary we need to be preaching the is primary we need to be preaching the word uh and some people have confused word uh and some people have confused word uh and some people have confused preaching donkey in our message for preaching donkey in our message for preaching donkey in our message for being not not that and we're we're we being not not that and we're we're we being not not that and we're we're we could be uh we are so far away from uh could be uh we are so far away from uh could be uh we are so far away from uh saying that you shouldn't preach the saying that you shouldn't preach the saying that you shouldn't preach the word we're all about preaching the word word we're all about preaching the word word we're all about preaching the word and we actually think preaching the word and we actually think preaching the word and we actually think preaching the word is so important that it needs to get is so important that it needs to get is so important that it needs to get across so commun ation and preparation across so commun ation and preparation across so commun ation and preparation of the sermon begins with the idea of of the sermon begins with the idea of of the sermon begins with the idea of who am I talking to um if I'm speaking who am I talking to um if I'm speaking who am I talking to um if I'm speaking to a a group of people and I know them to a a group of people and I know them to a a group of people and I know them and they know me and I can connect with and they know me and I can connect with and they know me and I can connect with them on this level then I know what them on this level then I know what them on this level then I know what would apply to them I know what would would apply to them I know what would would apply to them I know what would connect with them I know what they care connect with them I know what they care connect with them I know what they care about what they don't care about so about what they don't care about so about what they don't care about so beginning uh to think about the listener beginning uh to think about the listener beginning uh to think about the listener I think also preparation typically uh I think also preparation typically uh I think also preparation typically uh what you what you've found kind of what you what you've found kind of what you what you've found kind of traditionally is the pastor would go traditionally is the pastor would go traditionally is the pastor would go into a room uh like Moses walking up to into a room uh like Moses walking up to into a room uh like Moses walking up to a mountain right would go into a room a mountain right would go into a room a mountain right would go into a room and he would sit in there for 20 hours and he would sit in there for 20 hours and he would sit in there for 20 hours and a lot of pastors would would Pride and a lot of pastors would would Pride and a lot of pastors would would Pride themselves on you know it takes me 30 themselves on you know it takes me 30 themselves on you know it takes me 30 hours a week to prepare I just me in a hours a week to prepare I just me in a hours a week to prepare I just me in a room with my books and my Bible and my room with my books and my Bible and my room with my books and my Bible and my brain and my and my God and then I come brain and my and my God and then I come brain and my and my God and then I come out and I give I say thus sayeth the out and I give I say thus sayeth the out and I give I say thus sayeth the Lord right and um what what happens if Lord right and um what what happens if Lord right and um what what happens if you do that week after week year after you do that week after week year after you do that week after week year after year for decades on in you you really year for decades on in you you really year for decades on in you you really start to draw from a dry well it's just start to draw from a dry well it's just start to draw from a dry well it's just you and your thoughts and sure you're you and your thoughts and sure you're you and your thoughts and sure you're reading things but you are you are reading things but you are you are reading things but you are you are constantly just giving out of the same constantly just giving out of the same constantly just giving out of the same thing and so so we we encourage a a thing and so so we we encourage a a thing and so so we we encourage a a preparation method that's team-driven um preparation method that's team-driven um preparation method that's team-driven um if you think about everything we do in if you think about everything we do in if you think about everything we do in churches especially these days it's all

churches especially these days it's all churches especially these days it's all team driven um if you're not working in team driven um if you're not working in team driven um if you're not working in teams you're not doing what you should teams you're not doing what you should teams you're not doing what you should be doing equipping people and working in be doing equipping people and working in be doing equipping people and working in teams so the preparation process for the teams so the preparation process for the teams so the preparation process for the sermon actually begins with a team of sermon actually begins with a team of sermon actually begins with a team of people that are looking at the same people that are looking at the same people that are looking at the same content the text looking at the message content the text looking at the message content the text looking at the message series if you teach series which series if you teach series which series if you teach series which obviously we recommend that um and then obviously we recommend that um and then obviously we recommend that um and then looking at what is the objective and looking at what is the objective and looking at what is the objective and desired response uh for this sermon and desired response uh for this sermon and desired response uh for this sermon and for the the series as a whole so so what for the the series as a whole so so what for the the series as a whole so so what is an objective how how do we Define is an objective how how do we Define is an objective how how do we Define that objective for a sermon is what do that objective for a sermon is what do that objective for a sermon is what do we want the sermon to do so if I'm we want the sermon to do so if I'm we want the sermon to do so if I'm preaching a message and I don't know preaching a message and I don't know preaching a message and I don't know what what I want my sermon to do then what what I want my sermon to do then what what I want my sermon to do then it's really confusing for me when I go it's really confusing for me when I go it's really confusing for me when I go to prepare so I want to know what the to prepare so I want to know what the to prepare so I want to know what the sermon is supposed to do the desired sermon is supposed to do the desired sermon is supposed to do the desired response is what are people supposed to response is what are people supposed to response is what are people supposed to do with the sermon right um and so I do with the sermon right um and so I do with the sermon right um and so I need to know very clearly what the need to know very clearly what the need to know very clearly what the sermon does and what people do with it sermon does and what people do with it sermon does and what people do with it and so those two things I I feel like and so those two things I I feel like and so those two things I I feel like when you're contrasting it with a more when you're contrasting it with a more when you're contrasting it with a more traditional approach um a lot of times traditional approach um a lot of times traditional approach um a lot of times those the thinking about the end and The those the thinking about the end and The those the thinking about the end and The Listener is really kind of an Listener is really kind of an Listener is really kind of an afterthought and we just say push it to afterthought and we just say push it to afterthought and we just say push it to the the the Forefront very cool you know I one thing Forefront very cool you know I one thing Forefront very cool you know I one thing I've noticed as you know you deal with I've noticed as you know you deal with I've noticed as you know you deal with I've had the privilege over the years of I've had the privilege over the years of I've had the privilege over the years of interacting with some very large interacting with some very large interacting with some very large churches that have had you know great churches that have had you know great churches that have had you know great impact and one of the interesting things impact and one of the interesting things impact and one of the interesting things there is that notion of like the lone there is that notion of like the lone there is that notion of like the lone Pastor that goes up onto the hill um but Pastor that goes up onto the hill um but Pastor that goes up onto the hill um but actually the pattern I've seen pretty actually the pattern I've seen pretty actually the pattern I've seen pretty consistently large kind of name brand consistently large kind of name brand consistently large kind of name brand churches is preaching as a team sport churches is preaching as a team sport churches is preaching as a team sport you know they they have a group of you know they they have a group of you know they they have a group of people around them that are helping with

people around them that are helping with people around them that are helping with the content some of that's staff some of the content some of that's staff some of the content some of that's staff some of that's volunteers but it's not although that's volunteers but it's not although that's volunteers but it's not although at the end of the day they're the one at the end of the day they're the one at the end of the day they're the one that's going to stand up and and that's going to stand up and and that's going to stand up and and actually deliver the message there's actually deliver the message there's actually deliver the message there's typically a group of people around them typically a group of people around them typically a group of people around them on that what are you seeing work let's on that what are you seeing work let's on that what are you seeing work let's say it's you know maybe a smaller Church say it's you know maybe a smaller Church say it's you know maybe a smaller Church a few hundred people how can they kind a few hundred people how can they kind a few hundred people how can they kind of get more people involved in the of get more people involved in the of get more people involved in the preparation process even on the front preparation process even on the front preparation process even on the front end to get people you know plugged in on end to get people you know plugged in on end to get people you know plugged in on the team side that's a great question the team side that's a great question the team side that's a great question yeah because that comes a lot when when yeah because that comes a lot when when yeah because that comes a lot when when we talk about this and write about it we talk about this and write about it we talk about this and write about it people will say sure that's great if people will say sure that's great if people will say sure that's great if you've got a staff of a hundred people you've got a staff of a hundred people you've got a staff of a hundred people you can pull anybody you want what do you can pull anybody you want what do you can pull anybody you want what do you do if you have a church of a 100 you do if you have a church of a 100 you do if you have a church of a 100 people well what I say is uh begin and I people well what I say is uh begin and I people well what I say is uh begin and I outline kind of a method in my in the outline kind of a method in my in the outline kind of a method in my in the book that's going to come out or came book that's going to come out or came book that's going to come out or came out May 3rd uh about how to how to build out May 3rd uh about how to how to build out May 3rd uh about how to how to build a team informally because when we think a team informally because when we think a team informally because when we think about a preaching team it's this big about a preaching team it's this big about a preaching team it's this big heavy okay does that mean we have to heavy okay does that mean we have to heavy okay does that mean we have to meet like our preaching team meets every meet like our preaching team meets every meet like our preaching team meets every Monday we meet at uh 2:00 and and it's a Monday we meet at uh 2:00 and and it's a Monday we meet at uh 2:00 and and it's a it's a set set amount of people not it's a set set amount of people not it's a set set amount of people not every team needs to look like that uh it every team needs to look like that uh it every team needs to look like that uh it could be a it could be an informal um could be a it could be an informal um could be a it could be an informal um group of people that you have reached group of people that you have reached group of people that you have reached out to and invited them into the out to and invited them into the out to and invited them into the Mysterious World of sermon preparation Mysterious World of sermon preparation Mysterious World of sermon preparation where maybe just at some point during where maybe just at some point during where maybe just at some point during the week you bounce your ideas around the week you bounce your ideas around the week you bounce your ideas around with them over coffee or you do it over with them over coffee or you do it over with them over coffee or you do it over email uh I I think most pastors would be email uh I I think most pastors would be email uh I I think most pastors would be surprised to find out how many people in surprised to find out how many people in surprised to find out how many people in their church are actually very intrigued their church are actually very intrigued their church are actually very intrigued by the content that's created and when by the content that's created and when by the content that's created and when when you start to invite people into when you start to invite people into when you start to invite people into that a lot of times what you'll find is that a lot of times what you'll find is that a lot of times what you'll find is people will say yeah I I have ideas and people will say yeah I I have ideas and people will say yeah I I have ideas and and it's important to reach out to the and it's important to reach out to the and it's important to reach out to the right people um and it's important to

right people um and it's important to right people um and it's important to reach out to people that are thoughtful reach out to people that are thoughtful reach out to people that are thoughtful and that have the same vision that you and that have the same vision that you and that have the same vision that you do and support the church but when you do and support the church but when you do and support the church but when you find those people it doesn't always have find those people it doesn't always have find those people it doesn't always have to be a meeting in person once a week to be a meeting in person once a week to be a meeting in person once a week it's good flag yep for sure yeah and it's good flag yep for sure yeah and it's good flag yep for sure yeah and even even you know passing ideas around even even you know passing ideas around even even you know passing ideas around on email or like hey I'm thinking about on email or like hey I'm thinking about on email or like hey I'm thinking about doing a thing in the summer time on the doing a thing in the summer time on the doing a thing in the summer time on the Book of John you know yeah but I'm kind Book of John you know yeah but I'm kind Book of John you know yeah but I'm kind of stuck on it you know this is what I'm of stuck on it you know this is what I'm of stuck on it you know this is what I'm wrestling with what you know what do you wrestling with what you know what do you wrestling with what you know what do you think and um you know finding that group think and um you know finding that group think and um you know finding that group of people whether it's like you say of people whether it's like you say of people whether it's like you say formal or or informal you know on the formal or or informal you know on the formal or or informal you know on the delivery side you know people there was delivery side you know people there was delivery side you know people there was a time when you know compelling a time when you know compelling a time when you know compelling communication was standing behind a very communication was standing behind a very communication was standing behind a very large wood Lecter um and screaming at large wood Lecter um and screaming at large wood Lecter um and screaming at the top of your lung um you know that's the top of your lung um you know that's the top of your lung um you know that's changed what are you seeing on that changed what are you seeing on that changed what are you seeing on that front from a preaching kind of preaching front from a preaching kind of preaching front from a preaching kind of preaching donkey point of view what are you seeing donkey point of view what are you seeing donkey point of view what are you seeing on the delivery point of view that's on the delivery point of view that's on the delivery point of view that's maybe people need be thinking about I I maybe people need be thinking about I I maybe people need be thinking about I I I think uh one the one of the recent I think uh one the one of the recent I think uh one the one of the recent interviews that you did I think back in interviews that you did I think back in interviews that you did I think back in in April where you had a guy talking in April where you had a guy talking in April where you had a guy talking about teams and he was mentioning just about teams and he was mentioning just about teams and he was mentioning just even your volunteer teams they're not even your volunteer teams they're not even your volunteer teams they're not thinking about church until 9:00 a.m thinking about church until 9:00 a.m thinking about church until 9:00 a.m Sunday morning right you're thinking Sunday morning right you're thinking Sunday morning right you're thinking about right you're thinking about it about right you're thinking about it about right you're thinking about it seven days a week they think about it at seven days a week they think about it at seven days a week they think about it at 9:00 a.m and and and they've got to be 9:00 a.m and and and they've got to be 9:00 a.m and and and they've got to be there at 9:15 and they're volunteers there at 9:15 and they're volunteers there at 9:15 and they're volunteers they're the ones who are actually on the they're the ones who are actually on the they're the ones who are actually on the in the trenches doing Ministry so if you in the trenches doing Ministry so if you in the trenches doing Ministry so if you think about the entire congregation on a think about the entire congregation on a think about the entire congregation on a Sunday morning or a Saturday night or Sunday morning or a Saturday night or Sunday morning or a Saturday night or whenever you meet most people are whenever you meet most people are whenever you meet most people are walking in there and they are thinking walking in there and they are thinking walking in there and they are thinking about anything and everything other than about anything and everything other than about anything and everything other than your sermon and where most people most your sermon and where most people most your sermon and where most people most pastors get it wrong is they because pastors get it wrong is they because pastors get it wrong is they because they're so excited we we spend a whole

they're so excited we we spend a whole they're so excited we we spend a whole week or two or three for Andy Stanley week or two or three for Andy Stanley week or two or three for Andy Stanley are three weeks ahead so he's been are three weeks ahead so he's been are three weeks ahead so he's been thinking about his message for three thinking about his message for three thinking about his message for three weeks we spend all this time thinking weeks we spend all this time thinking weeks we spend all this time thinking about this material that's about to just about this material that's about to just about this material that's about to just burst out of us and we have to really burst out of us and we have to really burst out of us and we have to really think are the people there yet and the think are the people there yet and the think are the people there yet and the and the reality is Mo some are most and the reality is Mo some are most and the reality is Mo some are most aren't so it's really your job to create aren't so it's really your job to create aren't so it's really your job to create interest and so with a little bit of interest and so with a little bit of interest and so with a little bit of knowledge of how people re receive knowledge of how people re receive knowledge of how people re receive information and make decisions I think a information and make decisions I think a information and make decisions I think a preacher can really affect the hearts preacher can really affect the hearts preacher can really affect the hearts and minds of The Listener one of the and minds of The Listener one of the and minds of The Listener one of the principles that we outline in the book principles that we outline in the book principles that we outline in the book is getting people to uh care before they is getting people to uh care before they is getting people to uh care before they know getting people to care before they know getting people to care before they know getting people to care before they know uh a lot of pastors come out with know uh a lot of pastors come out with know uh a lot of pastors come out with the knowledge right that's where we get the knowledge right that's where we get the knowledge right that's where we get the old adage three points in a poem the old adage three points in a poem the old adage three points in a poem make the points give a poem and then the make the points give a poem and then the make the points give a poem and then the points are supposed to be the points are supposed to be the points are supposed to be the information that that they oh yes that's information that that they oh yes that's information that that they oh yes that's true and then the poem is supposed to be true and then the poem is supposed to be true and then the poem is supposed to be the thing that really moves their heart the thing that really moves their heart the thing that really moves their heart and then and then you go on from there and then and then you go on from there and then and then you go on from there the problem with that method and that's the problem with that method and that's the problem with that method and that's kind of an old old way of doing it uh kind of an old old way of doing it uh kind of an old old way of doing it uh not wrong or right it's just a just one not wrong or right it's just a just one not wrong or right it's just a just one of the methods but uh Aristotle's uh uh of the methods but uh Aristotle's uh uh of the methods but uh Aristotle's uh uh theory of communication suggests that theory of communication suggests that theory of communication suggests that there are basically three uh ways that there are basically three uh ways that there are basically three uh ways that people connect with a message there people connect with a message there people connect with a message there needs to be ethos pathos and logos so needs to be ethos pathos and logos so needs to be ethos pathos and logos so ethos is The credibility of the speaker ethos is The credibility of the speaker ethos is The credibility of the speaker so they have to trust you they have to so they have to trust you they have to so they have to trust you they have to know that you are a um that you have a know that you are a um that you have a know that you are a um that you have a trustworthy message and then pathos you trustworthy message and then pathos you trustworthy message and then pathos you have to move them on an emotional level have to move them on an emotional level have to move them on an emotional level and then logos or logos it has to make and then logos or logos it has to make and then logos or logos it has to make sense logically and it has to be sense logically and it has to be sense logically and it has to be something that connects with their mind something that connects with their mind something that connects with their mind M so a lot of times pastors have the M so a lot of times pastors have the M so a lot of times pastors have the ethos because they're maybe it's their ethos because they're maybe it's their ethos because they're maybe it's their church and they know them so then it's church and they know them so then it's church and they know them so then it's down to Pathos and um and and logos but

down to Pathos and um and and logos but down to Pathos and um and and logos but a lot of pastors will will hit the logos a lot of pastors will will hit the logos a lot of pastors will will hit the logos really hard here are the points here are really hard here are the points here are really hard here are the points here are the facts here's the propositional the facts here's the propositional the facts here's the propositional truths here's the text the text sticky truths here's the text the text sticky truths here's the text the text sticky statement right and then at the end of statement right and then at the end of statement right and then at the end of it they say okay how can we get people it they say okay how can we get people it they say okay how can we get people to care about this and that's inverted to care about this and that's inverted to care about this and that's inverted um uh Darlene price wrote a great book um uh Darlene price wrote a great book um uh Darlene price wrote a great book called well said and she outlines how called well said and she outlines how called well said and she outlines how basically the way humans make decisions basically the way humans make decisions basically the way humans make decisions and psychology and a lot of research and psychology and a lot of research and psychology and a lot of research backs this up is most people make backs this up is most people make backs this up is most people make decisions on emotions first and then decisions on emotions first and then decisions on emotions first and then they they have the facts to they they they they have the facts to they they they they have the facts to they they they they get the facts later so for they they get the facts later so for they they get the facts later so for example if you go to a car dealership example if you go to a car dealership example if you go to a car dealership the car dealer is not going to walk up the car dealer is not going to walk up the car dealer is not going to walk up to you and say hey the payments on this to you and say hey the payments on this to you and say hey the payments on this are $399 a month over 72 months and you are $399 a month over 72 months and you are $399 a month over 72 months and you can do it because the interest rate is can do it because the interest rate is can do it because the interest rate is really low he's not going to get there really low he's not going to get there really low he's not going to get there what he's gonna do is he's gonna say ah what he's gonna do is he's gonna say ah what he's gonna do is he's gonna say ah you would look great in that car you would look great in that car you would look great in that car wouldn't you right that car would look wouldn't you right that car would look wouldn't you right that car would look great on you you would make the road great on you you would make the road great on you you would make the road shine with that car can you imagine and shine with that car can you imagine and shine with that car can you imagine and then and then once you're emotionally then and then once you're emotionally then and then once you're emotionally connected yeah sure then we're going to connected yeah sure then we're going to connected yeah sure then we're going to sit down and talk about financing but sit down and talk about financing but sit down and talk about financing but right now I need to get you emotionally right now I need to get you emotionally right now I need to get you emotionally emotionally invested in this car so as a emotionally invested in this car so as a emotionally invested in this car so as a as a communicator you have to Andy as a communicator you have to Andy as a communicator you have to Andy Stanley calls it building tension in his Stanley calls it building tension in his Stanley calls it building tension in his kind of gold standard book um kind of gold standard book um kind of gold standard book um communicating for a change he talks communicating for a change he talks communicating for a change he talks about it as building tension you have to about it as building tension you have to about it as building tension you have to get people to care before they're get people to care before they're get people to care before they're interested in knowing what you have to interested in knowing what you have to interested in knowing what you have to say very cool very cool um as we say very cool very cool um as we say very cool very cool um as we continue on um you know the back end continue on um you know the back end continue on um you know the back end after a message happens after a message happens after a message happens um you know what are church leaders um you know what are church leaders um you know what are church leaders doing to ensure that it's actually doing to ensure that it's actually doing to ensure that it's actually making an impact and part of what I love making an impact and part of what I love making an impact and part of what I love that you're pushing us here to Think that you're pushing us here to Think that you're pushing us here to Think Through is you know let's start with is Through is you know let's start with is Through is you know let's start with is it making an impact on our people um

it making an impact on our people um it making an impact on our people um what are church leaders doing or what what are church leaders doing or what what are church leaders doing or what should we be doing you know to to kind should we be doing you know to to kind should we be doing you know to to kind of gain feedback about our messages of gain feedback about our messages of gain feedback about our messages right so like anything else you you just right so like anything else you you just right so like anything else you you just have to get honest and regular and have to get honest and regular and have to get honest and regular and consistent feedback and I think this is consistent feedback and I think this is consistent feedback and I think this is especially different difficult for a lot especially different difficult for a lot especially different difficult for a lot of senior pastors because most people of senior pastors because most people of senior pastors because most people around you work for you and um if you around you work for you and um if you around you work for you and um if you don't really set up a culture where they don't really set up a culture where they don't really set up a culture where they know that you are okay receiving know that you are okay receiving know that you are okay receiving feedback even if it's a critique then feedback even if it's a critique then feedback even if it's a critique then you you're just never going to hear it you you're just never going to hear it you you're just never going to hear it um and and the feedback you get from um and and the feedback you get from um and and the feedback you get from your congregation can be helpful but a your congregation can be helpful but a your congregation can be helpful but a lot of times what we talk about at lot of times what we talk about at lot of times what we talk about at preaching donkey is um positive feedback preaching donkey is um positive feedback preaching donkey is um positive feedback is usually very general hey great sermon is usually very general hey great sermon is usually very general hey great sermon means nothing kind of encouraging but means nothing kind of encouraging but means nothing kind of encouraging but doesn't really help you negative doesn't really help you negative doesn't really help you negative feedback is usually pretty specific your feedback is usually pretty specific your feedback is usually pretty specific your sermon was so awful I wanted to die all sermon was so awful I wanted to die all sermon was so awful I wanted to die all right um and so or what you said here right um and so or what you said here right um and so or what you said here was so bad I I I I CR and I I hated you was so bad I I I I CR and I I hated you was so bad I I I I CR and I I hated you for it and so not helpful either and for it and so not helpful either and for it and so not helpful either and kind of discouraging so there's kind of discouraging so there's kind of discouraging so there's something in the Middle where uh to get something in the Middle where uh to get something in the Middle where uh to get honest and reliable feedback this is honest and reliable feedback this is honest and reliable feedback this is where your preaching team comes comes where your preaching team comes comes where your preaching team comes comes into play um at our preaching team into play um at our preaching team into play um at our preaching team meetings we we do a fair amount of meetings we we do a fair amount of meetings we we do a fair amount of evaluation of the previous week's sermon evaluation of the previous week's sermon evaluation of the previous week's sermon uh we seek feedback in every possible uh we seek feedback in every possible uh we seek feedback in every possible way one of the things I teach pastors to way one of the things I teach pastors to way one of the things I teach pastors to do is if someone comes up to you after a do is if someone comes up to you after a do is if someone comes up to you after a sermon and and it's not going to be sermon and and it's not going to be sermon and and it's not going to be awkward and they say hey your sermon awkward and they say hey your sermon awkward and they say hey your sermon really touched me most pastors say oh really touched me most pastors say oh really touched me most pastors say oh thank you thank it was God it was God thank you thank it was God it was God thank you thank it was God it was God and and then they move on and they never and and then they move on and they never and and then they move on and they never ask why and it's so helpful in that ask why and it's so helpful in that ask why and it's so helpful in that moment where someone has really been moment where someone has really been moment where someone has really been moved by your sermon if it's not going moved by your sermon if it's not going moved by your sermon if it's not going to be uncomfortable just say can you to be uncomfortable just say can you to be uncomfortable just say can you just tell me what about it what was

just tell me what about it what was just tell me what about it what was helpful and a lot of times people will helpful and a lot of times people will helpful and a lot of times people will share well when you said this it it just share well when you said this it it just share well when you said this it it just impacted me in this way and if you get impacted me in this way and if you get impacted me in this way and if you get enough of those conversations you start enough of those conversations you start enough of those conversations you start to realize what works and what doesn't to realize what works and what doesn't to realize what works and what doesn't uh and then the same is true if somebody uh and then the same is true if somebody uh and then the same is true if somebody walks up and says your sermon uh I just walks up and says your sermon uh I just walks up and says your sermon uh I just felt like it was bad or whatever okay felt like it was bad or whatever okay felt like it was bad or whatever okay well help me understand what what made well help me understand what what made well help me understand what what made what what made that negative impact on what what made that negative impact on what what made that negative impact on you and so anyway consistent feedback is you and so anyway consistent feedback is you and so anyway consistent feedback is really helpful no absolutely you know in really helpful no absolutely you know in really helpful no absolutely you know in our in our church we have a thing we our in our church we have a thing we our in our church we have a thing we call Thursday night Gospel Hour it's call Thursday night Gospel Hour it's call Thursday night Gospel Hour it's kind of a tongue and- cheek name because kind of a tongue and- cheek name because kind of a tongue and- cheek name because it's it's uh it's never just an hour uh it's it's uh it's never just an hour uh it's it's uh it's never just an hour uh but what we do is um whoever is but what we do is um whoever is but what we do is um whoever is preaching this weekend and this so this preaching this weekend and this so this preaching this weekend and this so this is led by our lead guy Tim Lucas great is led by our lead guy Tim Lucas great is led by our lead guy Tim Lucas great preacher Great Communicator um every preacher Great Communicator um every preacher Great Communicator um every week he preaches the entire message for week he preaches the entire message for week he preaches the entire message for a small group of us so so there's a kind a small group of us so so there's a kind a small group of us so so there's a kind of a consistent core there's our of a consistent core there's our of a consistent core there's our secondary Communicator there's myself um secondary Communicator there's myself um secondary Communicator there's myself um there's at least one person from our there's at least one person from our there's at least one person from our kind of creative Graphics design you kind of creative Graphics design you kind of creative Graphics design you know department and then it may rotate know department and then it may rotate know department and then it may rotate other people may come through he fullon other people may come through he fullon other people may come through he fullon preaches it so it's not like he preaches preaches it so it's not like he preaches preaches it so it's not like he preaches it as if there's a thousand people in it as if there's a thousand people in it as if there's a thousand people in the room so it's he delivers it as is we the room so it's he delivers it as is we the room so it's he delivers it as is we do a lot of props he he does a lot of do a lot of props he he does a lot of do a lot of props he he does a lot of like you know he's using stuff on stage like you know he's using stuff on stage like you know he's using stuff on stage so part of is he wants to make sure you so part of is he wants to make sure you so part of is he wants to make sure you know that that all works out just even know that that all works out just even know that that all works out just even physically but the amazing thing about physically but the amazing thing about physically but the amazing thing about it and you know he's he's an it and you know he's he's an it and you know he's he's an accomplished Communicator is we then accomplished Communicator is we then accomplished Communicator is we then literally go Page by Page he preaches literally go Page by Page he preaches literally go Page by Page he preaches from a manuscript we literally after it from a manuscript we literally after it from a manuscript we literally after it give kind of overall feedback and then give kind of overall feedback and then give kind of overall feedback and then go Page by page on and some of it's big go Page by page on and some of it's big go Page by page on and some of it's big stuff like this happened a couple weeks stuff like this happened a couple weeks stuff like this happened a couple weeks ago where it was like Tim you're

ago where it was like Tim you're ago where it was like Tim you're preaching two different messages here preaching two different messages here preaching two different messages here you've got this whole thing and that you've got this whole thing and that you've got this whole thing and that whole thing you need to get rid of one whole thing you need to get rid of one whole thing you need to get rid of one of them pick one or the other you don't of them pick one or the other you don't of them pick one or the other you don't need to do both or some of it is need to do both or some of it is need to do both or some of it is literally just like you know when you literally just like you know when you literally just like you know when you said that that makes you sound really said that that makes you sound really said that that makes you sound really old or like you keep you keep using '90s old or like you keep you keep using '90s old or like you keep you keep using '90s TV references no one Seinfeld's been off TV references no one Seinfeld's been off TV references no one Seinfeld's been off the air for 20 years stop talking about the air for 20 years stop talking about the air for 20 years stop talking about Seinfeld um and you know the amazing Seinfeld um and you know the amazing Seinfeld um and you know the amazing thing as a person who gets the privilege thing as a person who gets the privilege thing as a person who gets the privilege of giving that feedback I'm always like of giving that feedback I'm always like of giving that feedback I'm always like man that says a lot that he's open to man that says a lot that he's open to man that says a lot that he's open to that kind of feedback that he's willing that kind of feedback that he's willing that kind of feedback that he's willing to take that but you know what I see it to take that but you know what I see it to take that but you know what I see it it makes him a better communicator and it makes him a better communicator and it makes him a better communicator and as a person who's been on the receiving as a person who's been on the receiving as a person who's been on the receiving end of that when I've preached and had end of that when I've preached and had end of that when I've preached and had that feedback I'm it's invaluable that feedback I'm it's invaluable that feedback I'm it's invaluable because you get inside your message and because you get inside your message and because you get inside your message and you can't get any perspective on it that you can't get any perspective on it that you can't get any perspective on it that is that's one of the coolest ideas i' is that's one of the coolest ideas i' is that's one of the coolest ideas i' I've heard in a long time I love that I I've heard in a long time I love that I I've heard in a long time I love that I think that's fantastic the Thursday think that's fantastic the Thursday think that's fantastic the Thursday night pre- sermon that's that's night pre- sermon that's that's night pre- sermon that's that's brilliant yeah when's your first do you brilliant yeah when's your first do you brilliant yeah when's your first do you go you guys do Saturday night so Sunday go you guys do Saturday night so Sunday go you guys do Saturday night so Sunday morning we don't at this point do any morning we don't at this point do any morning we don't at this point do any don't do any Saturday night um and and don't do any Saturday night um and and don't do any Saturday night um and and he would say you know because I I don't he would say you know because I I don't he would say you know because I I don't know anyone that does it as robust as us know anyone that does it as robust as us know anyone that does it as robust as us um he you know we bump into other church um he you know we bump into other church um he you know we bump into other church leaders where they talk about like after leaders where they talk about like after leaders where they talk about like after their first service they have a group of their first service they have a group of their first service they have a group of people that'll come in the Gren room and people that'll come in the Gren room and people that'll come in the Gren room and talk through it and I'm and you know I'm talk through it and I'm and you know I'm talk through it and I'm and you know I'm always like why wait until then like why always like why wait until then like why always like why wait until then like why wait till you so you've just punished wait till you so you've just punished wait till you so you've just punished your first service why not do it you your first service why not do it you your first service why not do it you know ahead of time of that now I think know ahead of time of that now I think know ahead of time of that now I think again a big part of that that the point again a big part of that that the point again a big part of that that the point you know I was trying to make is to open you know I was trying to make is to open you know I was trying to make is to open up um you know senior leaders and up um you know senior leaders and up um you know senior leaders and communicators be be open to that

communicators be be open to that communicators be be open to that feedback um and open to that feedback um and open to that feedback um and open to that evaluation um you know is is important evaluation um you know is is important evaluation um you know is is important you know as you look you know to the you know as you look you know to the you know as you look you know to the Future in your communication I think in Future in your communication I think in Future in your communication I think in your situation he probably led the way your situation he probably led the way your situation he probably led the way in that and that's important senior in that and that's important senior in that and that's important senior pastors need to really take a step and pastors need to really take a step and pastors need to really take a step and Lead the Way yeah absolutely he the only Lead the Way yeah absolutely he the only Lead the Way yeah absolutely he the only reason why we do it is because he set it reason why we do it is because he set it reason why we do it is because he set it up now now what what has happened the up now now what what has happened the up now now what what has happened the interesting thing has happened is over interesting thing has happened is over interesting thing has happened is over the years because we use that for every the years because we use that for every the years because we use that for every time a campus Pastor speaks if we do time a campus Pastor speaks if we do time a campus Pastor speaks if we do like a if a youth guy gets up and speak like a if a youth guy gets up and speak like a if a youth guy gets up and speak they all go through it there we now have they all go through it there we now have they all go through it there we now have an approach a system of preaching like an approach a system of preaching like an approach a system of preaching like we have benchmarks for what we're trying we have benchmarks for what we're trying we have benchmarks for what we're trying to accomplish through it um and that's to accomplish through it um and that's to accomplish through it um and that's because he's had to articulate it over because he's had to articulate it over because he's had to articulate it over the years but it's now replicatable um the years but it's now replicatable um the years but it's now replicatable um it's now able to kind of say hey this is it's now able to kind of say hey this is it's now able to kind of say hey this is this is when you do a message at at our this is when you do a message at at our this is when you do a message at at our church this is what it's going to look church this is what it's going to look church this is what it's going to look like um I'm talking too much um you know like um I'm talking too much um you know like um I'm talking too much um you know no no that I love that cu the no no that I love that cu the no no that I love that cu the consistency I mean one of the things we consistency I mean one of the things we consistency I mean one of the things we talk about at pre donkey loud is having talk about at pre donkey loud is having talk about at pre donkey loud is having having a schedule um and I know having a schedule um and I know having a schedule um and I know benchmarks for what you want to benchmarks for what you want to benchmarks for what you want to accomplish is a little bit different but accomplish is a little bit different but accomplish is a little bit different but if you know on Monday what has to be if you know on Monday what has to be if you know on Monday what has to be done and on Tuesday what has to be done done and on Tuesday what has to be done done and on Tuesday what has to be done um and the rehearsal so Thursday night um and the rehearsal so Thursday night um and the rehearsal so Thursday night you guys do the rehearsal I rehearse my you guys do the rehearsal I rehearse my you guys do the rehearsal I rehearse my sermons on on Thursday afternoon I do it sermons on on Thursday afternoon I do it sermons on on Thursday afternoon I do it to an empty room and you got my head to an empty room and you got my head to an empty room and you got my head spinning because I really should do it spinning because I really should do it spinning because I really should do it to a full room or to at least five or to a full room or to at least five or to a full room or to at least five or six people but uh one I want to say six people but uh one I want to say six people but uh one I want to say really one thing really quick if we have really one thing really quick if we have really one thing really quick if we have time about rehearsing your your worship time about rehearsing your your worship time about rehearsing your your worship leader okay and your worship team is leader okay and your worship team is leader okay and your worship team is going to rehearse the same song 57 times going to rehearse the same song 57 times going to rehearse the same song 57 times right a song that someone else wrote and right a song that someone else wrote and right a song that someone else wrote and they've done five times already they're they've done five times already they're they've done five times already they're gonna and and they're going to replicate

gonna and and they're going to replicate gonna and and they're going to replicate that process week after week after week that process week after week after week that process week after week after week why when they get up they want to know why when they get up they want to know why when they get up they want to know exactly what to expect they want to be exactly what to expect they want to be exactly what to expect they want to be able to uh deliver that song uh able to uh deliver that song uh able to uh deliver that song uh dynamically and and and impactfully dynamically and and and impactfully dynamically and and and impactfully pastors what'll happen is they'll say pastors what'll happen is they'll say pastors what'll happen is they'll say well I've been preaching for a long time well I've been preaching for a long time well I've been preaching for a long time I know I'm doing and they they write it I know I'm doing and they they write it I know I'm doing and they they write it and they just get up and and they go and and they just get up and and they go and and they just get up and and they go and I want to know exactly what to expect I want to know exactly what to expect I want to know exactly what to expect and I want to hear myself say it because and I want to hear myself say it because and I want to hear myself say it because a lot of times I'll hear I'll go that is a lot of times I'll hear I'll go that is a lot of times I'll hear I'll go that is not what I intended for it to sound like not what I intended for it to sound like not what I intended for it to sound like or transitions a lot of things get lost or transitions a lot of things get lost or transitions a lot of things get lost in transition from A to B there's nonse in transition from A to B there's nonse in transition from A to B there's nonse and you can really you can clean a lot and you can really you can clean a lot and you can really you can clean a lot of that up in rehearsal so I I recommend of that up in rehearsal so I I recommend of that up in rehearsal so I I recommend to everyone even if you can't set up a to everyone even if you can't set up a to everyone even if you can't set up a team like that yet get in an empty room team like that yet get in an empty room team like that yet get in an empty room as awkward as it is take your notes take as awkward as it is take your notes take as awkward as it is take your notes take your PowerPoint whatever you use and your PowerPoint whatever you use and your PowerPoint whatever you use and preach as if there's a people in the preach as if there's a people in the preach as if there's a people in the room absolutely no that's good and I room absolutely no that's good and I room absolutely no that's good and I think you know obviously a few months think you know obviously a few months think you know obviously a few months ago there was that uh you know Gaff that ago there was that uh you know Gaff that ago there was that uh you know Gaff that Andy Stanley had um where he was you Andy Stanley had um where he was you Andy Stanley had um where he was you making fun of small churches and all making fun of small churches and all making fun of small churches and all that which I'm like PS I've haven't said that which I'm like PS I've haven't said that which I'm like PS I've haven't said this on the show I'm like PS people give this on the show I'm like PS people give this on the show I'm like PS people give him a break like come on he's he's a him a break like come on he's he's a him a break like come on he's he's a huge supporter of all kinds of churches huge supporter of all kinds of churches huge supporter of all kinds of churches and and you know has one misstep in a and and you know has one misstep in a and and you know has one misstep in a message and people jump all over him but message and people jump all over him but message and people jump all over him but I but it's interesting the way I chocked I but it's interesting the way I chocked I but it's interesting the way I chocked that up to was there's a guy who you that up to was there's a guy who you that up to was there's a guy who you know he doesn't do the kind of rehearsal know he doesn't do the kind of rehearsal know he doesn't do the kind of rehearsal thing he's speaking from points gets up thing he's speaking from points gets up thing he's speaking from points gets up there and you're mind gets going and there and you're mind gets going and there and you're mind gets going and things come out of your mouth and you things come out of your mouth and you things come out of your mouth and you know when you're Andy Stanley who none know when you're Andy Stanley who none know when you're Andy Stanley who none of us are as as gifted as he is you can of us are as as gifted as he is you can of us are as as gifted as he is you can you can get away with it but none of us you can get away with it but none of us you can get away with it but none of us are that um you know before we kind of are that um you know before we kind of are that um you know before we kind of move on with the rest of the episode move on with the rest of the episode move on with the rest of the episode anything else you want to share well I I anything else you want to share well I I anything else you want to share well I I just want to share with your listeners just want to share with your listeners just want to share with your listeners if I could I've got a book coming that

if I could I've got a book coming that if I could I've got a book coming that came out May 3rd this is called came out May 3rd this is called came out May 3rd this is called preaching killer sermons uh how to preaching killer sermons uh how to preaching killer sermons uh how to create and deliver messages that create and deliver messages that create and deliver messages that Captivate and Inspire and so a lot of Captivate and Inspire and so a lot of Captivate and Inspire and so a lot of the principles that we outlined in the the principles that we outlined in the the principles that we outlined in the show today are laid out in that book uh show today are laid out in that book uh show today are laid out in that book uh you can also find you can also find you can also find preaching donkey on Twitter on Facebook preaching donkey on Twitter on Facebook preaching donkey on Twitter on Facebook preaching donkey and preaching preaching donkey and preaching preaching donkey and preaching donkey.com and I also just want to say donkey.com and I also just want to say donkey.com and I also just want to say um you know one of the things that um you know one of the things that um you know one of the things that happens when you start talking about happens when you start talking about happens when you start talking about preaching is people say uh well do you preaching is people say uh well do you preaching is people say uh well do you know is that the only thing there is do know is that the only thing there is do know is that the only thing there is do you think that's all there is in church you think that's all there is in church you think that's all there is in church and I will just say the I Love Leading I and I will just say the I Love Leading I and I will just say the I Love Leading I love everything about the local church I love everything about the local church I love everything about the local church I love leaders I love pastors and so as love leaders I love pastors and so as love leaders I love pastors and so as there's been this needed emphasis on there's been this needed emphasis on there's been this needed emphasis on leadership and it's everywhere I wanted leadership and it's everywhere I wanted leadership and it's everywhere I wanted to kind of raise the awareness about to kind of raise the awareness about to kind of raise the awareness about preaching and say let's not forget our preaching and say let's not forget our preaching and say let's not forget our our our purpose here to really deliver a our our purpose here to really deliver a our our purpose here to really deliver a message uh the most important message in message uh the most important message in message uh the most important message in the world this is the unseminary podcast the world this is the unseminary podcast the world this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary stuff you wish they taught in seminary stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to jump into the well we're going to jump into the well we're going to jump into the lightning round that part of the episode lightning round that part of the episode lightning round that part of the episode where we ask similar questions everybody where we ask similar questions everybody where we ask similar questions everybody that's on the show super excited to have that's on the show super excited to have that's on the show super excited to have Lane Sebring with us today from Lane Sebring with us today from Lane Sebring with us today from preaching donkey it's been a great preaching donkey it's been a great preaching donkey it's been a great conversation super helpful um Lane conversation super helpful um Lane conversation super helpful um Lane what's an online resource that you're what's an online resource that you're what's an online resource that you're using these days that are helping you using these days that are helping you using these days that are helping you out in your ministry okay so uh Logos out in your ministry okay so uh Logos out in your ministry okay so uh Logos Bible software I'm not sure if that's Bible software I'm not sure if that's Bible software I'm not sure if that's really an online or a local resource but really an online or a local resource but really an online or a local resource but it's it's uh outstanding it's the it's it's it's uh outstanding it's the it's it's it's uh outstanding it's the it's really the best if you don't use it as a really the best if you don't use it as a really the best if you don't use it as a especially as a preacher uh it's especially as a preacher uh it's especially as a preacher uh it's fantastic of course Evernote to store fantastic of course Evernote to store fantastic of course Evernote to store things feedle is a is a way to to get um things feedle is a is a way to to get um things feedle is a is a way to to get um news and I I scan through that every news and I I scan through that every news and I I scan through that every night pocket to store those things of

night pocket to store those things of night pocket to store those things of course my podcast app I'm a huge podcast course my podcast app I'm a huge podcast course my podcast app I'm a huge podcast junkie I listen to podcast all the time junkie I listen to podcast all the time junkie I listen to podcast all the time and recently I actually got an an app and recently I actually got an an app and recently I actually got an an app called overdrive I don't know if many called overdrive I don't know if many called overdrive I don't know if many people have ever heard of this but people have ever heard of this but people have ever heard of this but Overdrive connects with your local Overdrive connects with your local Overdrive connects with your local public library and you can check out public library and you can check out public library and you can check out ebooks and audio books for free and so ebooks and audio books for free and so ebooks and audio books for free and so there's so many books that I want to there's so many books that I want to there's so many books that I want to read that I don't want to buy so exactly read that I don't want to buy so exactly read that I don't want to buy so exactly um and and so that has been I've just um and and so that has been I've just um and and so that has been I've just and I can listen to a book in in two and I can listen to a book in in two and I can listen to a book in in two times the speed uh and so I've just been times the speed uh and so I've just been times the speed uh and so I've just been tearing through classic books and that tearing through classic books and that tearing through classic books and that that's kind of a non Seer but reading is that's kind of a non Seer but reading is that's kind of a non Seer but reading is is a reading is a huge part of my life is a reading is a huge part of my life is a reading is a huge part of my life and I love it so those are kind of some and I love it so those are kind of some and I love it so those are kind of some of the things that I've been using yeah of the things that I've been using yeah of the things that I've been using yeah overdrive is amazing I I'm like we use overdrive is amazing I I'm like we use overdrive is amazing I I'm like we use it and I'm like I'm not sure how this is it and I'm like I'm not sure how this is it and I'm like I'm not sure how this is even possible but I'll take it yeah it even possible but I'll take it yeah it even possible but I'll take it yeah it seems like it shouldn't be allowed it seems like it shouldn't be allowed it seems like it shouldn't be allowed it seems like it should be illegal wa so I seems like it should be illegal wa so I seems like it should be illegal wa so I can just like listen to these I don't can just like listen to these I don't can just like listen to these I don't have to pay for them but great it's have to pay for them but great it's have to pay for them but great it's amazing um what's a book you've read in amazing um what's a book you've read in amazing um what's a book you've read in the last six months speaking of books the last six months speaking of books the last six months speaking of books that's had an influence on your thinking that's had an influence on your thinking that's had an influence on your thinking and Ministry okay so I want to grab it and Ministry okay so I want to grab it and Ministry okay so I want to grab it because I I I bought several of them for because I I I bought several of them for because I I I bought several of them for my team that's great this is this is a my team that's great this is this is a my team that's great this is this is a book called leading change without book called leading change without book called leading change without losing it by uh Carrie newoff he's a losing it by uh Carrie newoff he's a losing it by uh Carrie newoff he's a he's a thought leader in church he's a thought leader in church he's a thought leader in church leadership and really simple book he's leadership and really simple book he's leadership and really simple book he's written a newer one recently uh called written a newer one recently uh called written a newer one recently uh called something I I can't remember what it is something I I can't remember what it is something I I can't remember what it is but but this leading change without but but this leading change without but but this leading change without losing it fantastic really short read losing it fantastic really short read losing it fantastic really short read walks you through a process of how to walks you through a process of how to walks you through a process of how to lead change in your church and and do it lead change in your church and and do it lead change in your church and and do it uh and survive it and and really walk uh and survive it and and really walk uh and survive it and and really walk people through it yeah fantastic car's a people through it yeah fantastic car's a people through it yeah fantastic car's a great leader I deeply respect him he was

great leader I deeply respect him he was great leader I deeply respect him he was on the episode actually way back when on the episode actually way back when on the episode actually way back when that came out and um you know I I said that came out and um you know I I said that came out and um you know I I said to him at the time because he was to him at the time because he was to him at the time because he was writing like some family stuff he's WR writing like some family stuff he's WR writing like some family stuff he's WR another book on family and at that point another book on family and at that point another book on family and at that point I said listen there he was kind of I said listen there he was kind of I said listen there he was kind of pushing that family stuff more I said I pushing that family stuff more I said I pushing that family stuff more I said I think this leading it uh without change think this leading it uh without change think this leading it uh without change without losing it is is much better and without losing it is is much better and without losing it is is much better and he's really kind of shifted his whole he's really kind of shifted his whole he's really kind of shifted his whole brand really in that direction it's a brand really in that direction it's a brand really in that direction it's a great book you can also go back we'll great book you can also go back we'll great book you can also go back we'll put a link in the show notes to the put a link in the show notes to the put a link in the show notes to the interview with Carrie where he talks interview with Carrie where he talks interview with Carrie where he talks about it because it's a it's a great a about it because it's a it's a great a about it because it's a it's a great a great read for sure what's another great read for sure what's another great read for sure what's another Ministry you're looking at that's Ministry you're looking at that's Ministry you're looking at that's inspiring you these days so many so inspiring you these days so many so inspiring you these days so many so sorry I mean to cut you off but so many sorry I mean to cut you off but so many sorry I mean to cut you off but so many churches I love but my my favorite is churches I love but my my favorite is churches I love but my my favorite is Life Church uh the Life Church life. Life Church uh the Life Church life. Life Church uh the Life Church life. Church um out of Oklahoma City Craig Church um out of Oklahoma City Craig Church um out of Oklahoma City Craig Rochelle I have been so inspired I Rochelle I have been so inspired I Rochelle I have been so inspired I actually went to Life Church for about actually went to Life Church for about actually went to Life Church for about five years when I was in high school five years when I was in high school five years when I was in high school from uh High School in part of college from uh High School in part of college from uh High School in part of college from about 2001 to 2006 and back when I from about 2001 to 2006 and back when I from about 2001 to 2006 and back when I started going there they only had like started going there they only had like started going there they only had like 10,000 people in two campuses and by by 10,000 people in two campuses and by by 10,000 people in two campuses and by by the time I left they had like 15 the time I left they had like 15 the time I left they had like 15 campuses and and 20,000 and now they've campuses and and 20,000 and now they've campuses and and 20,000 and now they've got 25 campuses and 100,000 people and got 25 campuses and 100,000 people and got 25 campuses and 100,000 people and they just they do nothing but kill it they just they do nothing but kill it they just they do nothing but kill it consistently they they just murder it consistently they they just murder it consistently they they just murder it and they're so good at it and they're and they're so good at it and they're and they're so good at it and they're humble about it so I I I love I love humble about it so I I I love I love humble about it so I I I love I love everything that comes out of there and everything that comes out of there and everything that comes out of there and um big fan very cool if you could get 15 um big fan very cool if you could get 15 um big fan very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive uh who minutes with any leader alive uh who minutes with any leader alive uh who would you want to get that with and why would you want to get that with and why would you want to get that with and why okay so I feel like this is such a lame okay so I feel like this is such a lame okay so I feel like this is such a lame answer because a lot of your people are answer because a lot of your people are answer because a lot of your people are talking about like they're going to meet talking about like they're going to meet talking about like they're going to meet with you know Vladimir Putin one guy with you know Vladimir Putin one guy with you know Vladimir Putin one guy said you know and all this honestly I said you know and all this honestly I said you know and all this honestly I mean if I had if I had just a little bit

mean if I had if I had just a little bit mean if I had if I had just a little bit of time it would have to be Craig of time it would have to be Craig of time it would have to be Craig Rochelle right um because his leadership Rochelle right um because his leadership Rochelle right um because his leadership podcast all these different things I podcast all these different things I podcast all these different things I would love I just want to get inside his would love I just want to get inside his would love I just want to get inside his head and learn all I can about how he head and learn all I can about how he head and learn all I can about how he leads right that's great good well thank leads right that's great good well thank leads right that's great good well thank you so much for being on the show I was you so much for being on the show I was you so much for being on the show I was super excited to have you here today I'm super excited to have you here today I'm super excited to have you here today I'm sure you know keeping preaching donkey sure you know keeping preaching donkey sure you know keeping preaching donkey going and your day job and all that what going and your day job and all that what going and your day job and all that what do you do uh when you just want to kick do you do uh when you just want to kick do you do uh when you just want to kick back and have some fun uh you know kind back and have some fun uh you know kind back and have some fun uh you know kind of uh you know relax a little bit Yeah of uh you know relax a little bit Yeah of uh you know relax a little bit Yeah so I love hanging out with my wife and so I love hanging out with my wife and so I love hanging out with my wife and my two girls we've got uh my wife Rachel my two girls we've got uh my wife Rachel my two girls we've got uh my wife Rachel we've got two little girls one that's uh we've got two little girls one that's uh we've got two little girls one that's uh about two years old almost two and one about two years old almost two and one about two years old almost two and one that's about two months old and so we're that's about two months old and so we're that's about two months old and so we're rocking the you're standing up today rocking the you're standing up today rocking the you're standing up today that's incredible that's incredible that's incredible yeah standing up and and surviving and yeah standing up and and surviving and yeah standing up and and surviving and um so love that I mean anything honestly um so love that I mean anything honestly um so love that I mean anything honestly anything with them is worth doing uh I anything with them is worth doing uh I anything with them is worth doing uh I actually love to work out in the yard a actually love to work out in the yard a actually love to work out in the yard a lot of a lot of work we do in church lot of a lot of work we do in church lot of a lot of work we do in church never finishes it's never complete I can never finishes it's never complete I can never finishes it's never complete I can go outside and work in the yard and go outside and work in the yard and go outside and work in the yard and there's an end to that and I can look at there's an end to that and I can look at there's an end to that and I can look at say look what I did I accomplished say look what I did I accomplished say look what I did I accomplished something I cut the grass and it's still something I cut the grass and it's still something I cut the grass and it's still cut right exactly it was long and now cut right exactly it was long and now cut right exactly it was long and now it's short I I did something uh I love it's short I I did something uh I love it's short I I did something uh I love to read and right I I've got about uh to read and right I I've got about uh to read and right I I've got about uh five unfinished kind of half-written five unfinished kind of half-written five unfinished kind of half-written books that are sitting around in in in books that are sitting around in in in books that are sitting around in in in some document yes and so just I love to some document yes and so just I love to some document yes and so just I love to to do that I love to travel anywhere to do that I love to travel anywhere to do that I love to travel anywhere warm my wife and I we love the beach we warm my wife and I we love the beach we warm my wife and I we love the beach we love the we love the Caribbean islands love the we love the Caribbean islands love the we love the Caribbean islands so um and then Netflix I mean just we' so um and then Netflix I mean just we' so um and then Netflix I mean just we' love to veg out and watch TV and catch love to veg out and watch TV and catch love to veg out and watch TV and catch up on shows and stuff well I want to up on shows and stuff well I want to up on shows and stuff well I want to encourage everybody to uh make sure they encourage everybody to uh make sure they encourage everybody to uh make sure they they check out preaching donkey make they check out preaching donkey make they check out preaching donkey make sure they uh pick up a copy your book sure they uh pick up a copy your book sure they uh pick up a copy your book it's out now um if people I'm assuming

it's out now um if people I'm assuming it's out now um if people I'm assuming you get that on Amazon we'll have a link you get that on Amazon we'll have a link you get that on Amazon we'll have a link to it on our our show notes where else to it on our our show notes where else to it on our our show notes where else if they want to get in touch with you if they want to get in touch with you if they want to get in touch with you can they do that yeah so the book yeah can they do that yeah so the book yeah can they do that yeah so the book yeah available Amazon Kindle version and and available Amazon Kindle version and and available Amazon Kindle version and and paperback depending on which one you paperback depending on which one you paperback depending on which one you want you can get a hold of of of me uh want you can get a hold of of of me uh want you can get a hold of of of me uh at um Lane preaching donkey.com so if at um Lane preaching donkey.com so if at um Lane preaching donkey.com so if you just email me there you can you can you just email me there you can you can you just email me there you can you can talk to me or um of course at preaching talk to me or um of course at preaching talk to me or um of course at preaching donkey or preaching donkey.com you can donkey or preaching donkey.com you can donkey or preaching donkey.com you can contact us nice thanks so much contact us nice thanks so much contact us nice thanks so much appreciate you be on the show today Lane appreciate you be on the show today Lane appreciate you be on the show today Lane all right thanks so much thank you for all right thanks so much thank you for all right thanks so much thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary tuning in to this week's unseminary tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary dcom and we'll can sign up at unseminary dcom and we'll can sign up at unseminary dcom and we'll send you helpful training resources send you helpful training resources send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary Birch or through email rich unseminary Birch or through email rich unseminary decom don't forget to check out the show decom don't forget to check out the show decom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unseminary notes for this episode at unseminary notes for this episode at unseminary tocom it includes links to what we tocom it includes links to what we tocom it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a talked about today and more leave a talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's un Seminary tuning in to this week's un Seminary tuning in to this week's un Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary