Lee Kricher on Church Revitalization for a New Generation

welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast everybody welcome to the on seminary everybody welcome to the on seminary everybody welcome to the on seminary podcast I know you've got a lot going on podcast I know you've got a lot going on podcast I know you've got a lot going on in your church and there's a lot in your church and there's a lot in your church and there's a lot happening and I just want to say thank happening and I just want to say thank happening and I just want to say thank you so much for putting us in your you so much for putting us in your you so much for putting us in your earbuds from listening in today you're earbuds from listening in today you're earbuds from listening in today you're gonna be rewarded because we've got a gonna be rewarded because we've got a gonna be rewarded because we've got a great guest we've got lee kricher on the great guest we've got lee kricher on the great guest we've got lee kricher on the line super excited to hear a bit of line super excited to hear a bit of line super excited to hear a bit of lee's story he started at amplified lee's story he started at amplified lee's story he started at amplified church which is in the eastern suburbs church which is in the eastern suburbs church which is in the eastern suburbs of Pittsburgh in 2003 and it really was of Pittsburgh in 2003 and it really was of Pittsburgh in 2003 and it really was at a moment a really a dire need really at a moment a really a dire need really at a moment a really a dire need really for revitalization today we're gonna for revitalization today we're gonna for revitalization today we're gonna jump in and hear all about that and that jump in and hear all about that and that jump in and hear all about that and that story and how you can apply those story and how you can apply those story and how you can apply those lessons to your church so Lee welcome to lessons to your church so Lee welcome to lessons to your church so Lee welcome to the show thank you rich my pleasure the show thank you rich my pleasure the show thank you rich my pleasure yeah why don't you tell us a bit of for yeah why don't you tell us a bit of for yeah why don't you tell us a bit of for folks that don't know the kind of folks that don't know the kind of folks that don't know the kind of amplify story why don't you tell us a amplify story why don't you tell us a amplify story why don't you tell us a little bit about amplify give us the little bit about amplify give us the little bit about amplify give us the sense of you know what's happened over sense of you know what's happened over sense of you know what's happened over these last well I guess it's been 13 these last well I guess it's been 13 these last well I guess it's been 13 years or so yeah actually this past years or so yeah actually this past years or so yeah actually this past weekend we just celebrated our 40th weekend we just celebrated our 40th weekend we just celebrated our 40th anniversary as a church amazing started anniversary as a church amazing started anniversary as a church amazing started in the late 70s you know had very in the late 70s you know had very in the late 70s you know had very healthy growth time of growth until healthy growth time of growth until healthy growth time of growth until about 1990 and then there was a period about 1990 and then there was a period about 1990 and then there was a period of decline and so in 2003 I actually was of decline and so in 2003 I actually was of decline and so in 2003 I actually was a pastor there as in my 20s but then in a pastor there as in my 20s but then in a pastor there as in my 20s but then in 2003 I was living in Atlanta not in

2003 I was living in Atlanta not in 2003 I was living in Atlanta not in ministry and had a call that the church ministry and had a call that the church ministry and had a call that the church was in pretty steep decline and so the was in pretty steep decline and so the was in pretty steep decline and so the last 13 years we've really done last 13 years we've really done last 13 years we've really done everything we can to turn the church everything we can to turn the church everything we can to turn the church around and primarily to get reconnected around and primarily to get reconnected around and primarily to get reconnected to the next generation because the to the next generation because the to the next generation because the church was an aging dying Church may be church was an aging dying Church may be church was an aging dying Church may be one of the fastest dying churches in one of the fastest dying churches in one of the fastest dying churches in town if they reach magazine had a you town if they reach magazine had a you town if they reach magazine had a you know fastest dying Church index it would know fastest dying Church index it would know fastest dying Church index it would be on it that's that's amazing well I'm be on it that's that's amazing well I'm be on it that's that's amazing well I'm sure there's a lot of leaders who are sure there's a lot of leaders who are sure there's a lot of leaders who are listening in who you know who really can listening in who you know who really can listening in who you know who really can relate to that they say gosh either the relate to that they say gosh either the relate to that they say gosh either the church we're in or maybe a church I'm church we're in or maybe a church I'm church we're in or maybe a church I'm being called to being called to being called to in need of you know that kind of in need of you know that kind of in need of you know that kind of turnaround what were some of that what turnaround what were some of that what turnaround what were some of that what were some of those signs that things were some of those signs that things were some of those signs that things were in need of a turnaround in 2003 were in need of a turnaround in 2003 were in need of a turnaround in 2003 when you first started there well the when you first started there well the when you first started there well the obvious science that we usually look for obvious science that we usually look for obvious science that we usually look for our attendance and then of course that's our attendance and then of course that's our attendance and then of course that's attendance goes down dramatically so attendance goes down dramatically so attendance goes down dramatically so giving goes down as well and giving goes down as well and giving goes down as well and volunteerism and all the things that you volunteerism and all the things that you volunteerism and all the things that you look for in any church situation when look for in any church situation when look for in any church situation when you look at health but to me the biggest you look at health but to me the biggest you look at health but to me the biggest issue was the average age of the people issue was the average age of the people issue was the average age of the people attending the church and I think that attending the church and I think that attending the church and I think that that is perhaps the biggest warning that is perhaps the biggest warning that is perhaps the biggest warning signal the biggest red flag that we need signal the biggest red flag that we need signal the biggest red flag that we need to look at because we can go for a long to look at because we can go for a long to look at because we can go for a long time with a church that's gradually time with a church that's gradually time with a church that's gradually getting older and older and older but getting older and older and older but getting older and older and older but because attendance isn't so bad and because attendance isn't so bad and because attendance isn't so bad and giving something so bad we ignore that

giving something so bad we ignore that giving something so bad we ignore that sign which is a sign that your church is sign which is a sign that your church is sign which is a sign that your church is really heading for big big problems and really heading for big big problems and really heading for big big problems and the average age of our church at the the average age of our church at the the average age of our church at the time was well over 50 and when you time was well over 50 and when you time was well over 50 and when you compare to the community we were called compare to the community we were called compare to the community we were called to serve which was an average age of to serve which was an average age of to serve which was an average age of about 35 we were we were not reaching about 35 we were we were not reaching about 35 we were we were not reaching our community for Christ we were just our community for Christ we were just our community for Christ we were just reaching older members of our community reaching older members of our community reaching older members of our community interesting now I think that's a really interesting now I think that's a really interesting now I think that's a really good you know thing to highlight to good you know thing to highlight to good you know thing to highlight to folks I think we can you know I've heard folks I think we can you know I've heard folks I think we can you know I've heard other church leaders say that there's a other church leaders say that there's a other church leaders say that there's a danger when you start noticing every danger when you start noticing every danger when you start noticing every year you're the average age of your year you're the average age of your year you're the average age of your church is just getting one year older church is just getting one year older church is just getting one year older what that's saying is you're not you what that's saying is you're not you what that's saying is you're not you know we're not infusing the next know we're not infusing the next know we're not infusing the next generation we're not reaching that you generation we're not reaching that you generation we're not reaching that you know that next generation you know in know that next generation you know in know that next generation you know in what were those those early steps kind what were those those early steps kind what were those those early steps kind of walk us through some of those things of walk us through some of those things of walk us through some of those things you did when you first arrived as you you did when you first arrived as you you did when you first arrived as you started to say hey you know we need to started to say hey you know we need to started to say hey you know we need to turn this thing around we need to maybe turn this thing around we need to maybe turn this thing around we need to maybe start trying to age down the church start trying to age down the church start trying to age down the church reach that next generation well I think reach that next generation well I think reach that next generation well I think the biggest thing was a change in the biggest thing was a change in the biggest thing was a change in mindset and you know the Apostle Paul mindset and you know the Apostle Paul mindset and you know the Apostle Paul writes about having our minds renewed writes about having our minds renewed writes about having our minds renewed and we needed to organizationally okay and we needed to organizationally okay and we needed to organizationally okay and especially as it related to the next and especially as it related to the next and especially as it related to the next generation because our mindset was generation because our mindset was generation because our mindset was pretty much if it was good enough for me pretty much if it was good enough for me pretty much if it was good enough for me it should be good enough for our kids it should be good enough for our kids it should be good enough for our kids and so we it wasn't our beliefs or our and so we it wasn't our beliefs or our and so we it wasn't our beliefs or our values that were values that were values that were a problem but our approach to church was a problem but our approach to church was a problem but our approach to church was stuck in the 80s right and we pretty stuck in the 80s right and we pretty stuck in the 80s right and we pretty much were wringing our hands and saying

much were wringing our hands and saying much were wringing our hands and saying why aren't these young people coming why aren't these young people coming why aren't these young people coming right and we had to have a change of right and we had to have a change of right and we had to have a change of mindset that went from that statement if mindset that went from that statement if mindset that went from that statement if it's good enough for me it's good enough it's good enough for me it's good enough it's good enough for me it's good enough for my kids to a question what will it for my kids to a question what will it for my kids to a question what will it take to reach the next generation and so take to reach the next generation and so take to reach the next generation and so that that change of mindset was the that that change of mindset was the that that change of mindset was the foundation for every other change that foundation for every other change that foundation for every other change that we did and and I think if there was one we did and and I think if there was one we did and and I think if there was one thing I was blessed with was the thing I was blessed with was the thing I was blessed with was the opportunity to work with a couple opportunity to work with a couple opportunity to work with a couple companies when I was not in ministry companies when I was not in ministry companies when I was not in ministry that were some of the world leaders in that were some of the world leaders in that were some of the world leaders in the topic of leading change or change the topic of leading change or change the topic of leading change or change leadership and primarily in corporate leadership and primarily in corporate leadership and primarily in corporate settings but I understood a lot of settings but I understood a lot of settings but I understood a lot of things around change leadership that things around change leadership that things around change leadership that we're very helpful when it came to we're very helpful when it came to we're very helpful when it came to bringing change to our church one of bringing change to our church one of bringing change to our church one of those was that we had to change our those was that we had to change our those was that we had to change our mindset now would you say was the style mindset now would you say was the style mindset now would you say was the style of the church to say the Sunday morning of the church to say the Sunday morning of the church to say the Sunday morning experiences what would have it been experiences what would have it been experiences what would have it been contemporary by 80 standards was that contemporary by 80 standards was that contemporary by 80 standards was that kind of like the kind of approach had kind of like the kind of approach had kind of like the kind of approach had kind of stalled out there and didn't kind of stalled out there and didn't kind of stalled out there and didn't continue is that is so then obviously continue is that is so then obviously continue is that is so then obviously that then impacted people use people that then impacted people use people that then impacted people use people sang like hey well this was good enough sang like hey well this was good enough sang like hey well this was good enough for us in 1983 why is it not reaching for us in 1983 why is it not reaching for us in 1983 why is it not reaching kids today you know 20 years later what kids today you know 20 years later what kids today you know 20 years later what happened it would have been you know in happened it would have been you know in happened it would have been you know in back then probably the primary musical back then probably the primary musical back then probably the primary musical style was integrity Hosanna music yeah style was integrity Hosanna music yeah style was integrity Hosanna music yeah it had that sound and that feel of you it had that sound and that feel of you it had that sound and that feel of you know old choruses and you know and you know old choruses and you know and you know old choruses and you know and you say well old it's not like you know a

say well old it's not like you know a say well old it's not like you know a thousand years old but nevertheless it's thousand years old but nevertheless it's thousand years old but nevertheless it's a very very different feel along with a a very very different feel along with a a very very different feel along with a lot of things that had just changed in lot of things that had just changed in lot of things that had just changed in society it was a very formal setting society it was a very formal setting society it was a very formal setting where people were required to dress a where people were required to dress a where people were required to dress a certain way when they came you know at certain way when they came you know at certain way when they came you know at least in an unwritten rule right so least in an unwritten rule right so least in an unwritten rule right so there were a lot of things that just there were a lot of things that just there were a lot of things that just were not relevant to the people we were were not relevant to the people we were were not relevant to the people we were trying to reach that had nothing to do trying to reach that had nothing to do trying to reach that had nothing to do with our beliefs right now how did you with our beliefs right now how did you with our beliefs right now how did you help people adopt a new mindset then so help people adopt a new mindset then so help people adopt a new mindset then so in that context it's one thing to say in that context it's one thing to say in that context it's one thing to say hey we need to adopt that was that hey we need to adopt that was that hey we need to adopt that was that through preaching was that through preaching was that through preaching was that through you know story how did you do through you know story how did you do through you know story how did you do that well it was a main theme the first that well it was a main theme the first that well it was a main theme the first few months of my return to being the few months of my return to being the few months of my return to being the pastor there and so I talked a lot about pastor there and so I talked a lot about pastor there and so I talked a lot about it and preached about the fact that you it and preached about the fact that you it and preached about the fact that you can't just let the next generation go can't just let the next generation go can't just let the next generation go and that we really have an ultimate and that we really have an ultimate and that we really have an ultimate responsibility not just for how we live responsibility not just for how we live responsibility not just for how we live our lives but the legacy that we leave our lives but the legacy that we leave our lives but the legacy that we leave for others and so that was a regular for others and so that was a regular for others and so that was a regular part of the weekend messages but I also part of the weekend messages but I also part of the weekend messages but I also took the leadership team of the church took the leadership team of the church took the leadership team of the church with we actually went to North Point with we actually went to North Point with we actually went to North Point Community Church in Atlanta and I said Community Church in Atlanta and I said Community Church in Atlanta and I said we have to get outside of the walls of we have to get outside of the walls of we have to get outside of the walls of our church and see a multi-generational our church and see a multi-generational our church and see a multi-generational Church that's changing a city in the Church that's changing a city in the Church that's changing a city in the borough and I think it really expanded borough and I think it really expanded borough and I think it really expanded their horizons and they said you know their horizons and they said you know their horizons and they said you know not that we could ever copy that Church not that we could ever copy that Church not that we could ever copy that Church but still there is so much that can but still there is so much that can but still there is so much that can happen between who we are and who we

happen between who we are and who we happen between who we are and who we could be as a church they start to talk could be as a church they start to talk could be as a church they start to talk to others in the church and there are to others in the church and there are to others in the church and there are only 150 people are said there was so only 150 people are said there was so only 150 people are said there was so there didn't need to be a lot of there didn't need to be a lot of there didn't need to be a lot of conversations right but we had small conversations right but we had small conversations right but we had small groups that were based you know on groups that were based you know on groups that were based you know on change and looking ahead and our purpose change and looking ahead and our purpose change and looking ahead and our purpose as a church and so I I say within a as a church and so I I say within a as a church and so I I say within a matter of a few months we still didn't matter of a few months we still didn't matter of a few months we still didn't have any young people coming or very have any young people coming or very have any young people coming or very many people started to say we cannot many people started to say we cannot many people started to say we cannot stay the same the status quo is stay the same the status quo is stay the same the status quo is unacceptable unacceptable unacceptable that's huge so then what did you do next that's huge so then what did you do next that's huge so then what did you do next so you you know you people are saying so you you know you people are saying so you you know you people are saying okay we're thinking we need to be okay we're thinking we need to be okay we're thinking we need to be thinking differently we've changed our thinking differently we've changed our thinking differently we've changed our mindset what next steps did you take to mindset what next steps did you take to mindset what next steps did you take to try to actually then say okay now if try to actually then say okay now if try to actually then say okay now if we're gonna move from well we'd be okay we're gonna move from well we'd be okay we're gonna move from well we'd be okay if there were some younger people to if there were some younger people to if there were some younger people to actually seeing folks connecting well we actually seeing folks connecting well we actually seeing folks connecting well we have so few people that we and with so have so few people that we and with so have so few people that we and with so many programs yep many programs yep many programs yep in ministries and services yeah we had in ministries and services yeah we had in ministries and services yeah we had to focus on a smaller number of things to focus on a smaller number of things to focus on a smaller number of things that I would say we call it we that I would say we call it we that I would say we call it we identified our essentials and for us it identified our essentials and for us it identified our essentials and for us it was our weekend service our small groups was our weekend service our small groups was our weekend service our small groups and children and youth ministry and we and children and youth ministry and we and children and youth ministry and we said basically we will stop everything said basically we will stop everything said basically we will stop everything else and focus completely on those else and focus completely on those else and focus completely on those things and as much as possible put a things and as much as possible put a things and as much as possible put a hundred percent of our time energy hundred percent of our time energy hundred percent of our time energy resources into those three things resources into those three things resources into those three things because we felt those three things because we felt those three things because we felt those three things would get us further towards our vision would get us further towards our vision would get us further towards our vision which was to lead as many people as which was to lead as many people as which was to lead as many people as possible into a growing relationship possible into a growing relationship possible into a growing relationship with Jesus Christ that those three with Jesus Christ that those three with Jesus Christ that those three things would get us there while many things would get us there while many things would get us there while many many many other good things right we

many many other good things right we many many other good things right we just didn't have the luxury of just didn't have the luxury of just didn't have the luxury of continuing there's an interesting continuing there's an interesting continuing there's an interesting paradox that I think a lot of churches paradox that I think a lot of churches paradox that I think a lot of churches find themselves in you know I've had the find themselves in you know I've had the find themselves in you know I've had the honor the privilege of leading in you honor the privilege of leading in you honor the privilege of leading in you know mostly larger churches which we we know mostly larger churches which we we know mostly larger churches which we we don't really do a lot like we do don't really do a lot like we do don't really do a lot like we do weekend's groups teams maybe some weekend's groups teams maybe some weekend's groups teams maybe some community engagement stuff but all the community engagement stuff but all the community engagement stuff but all the time you know I'll interact with time you know I'll interact with time you know I'll interact with churches of a few hundred people and churches of a few hundred people and churches of a few hundred people and they'll rattle off fifteen different they'll rattle off fifteen different they'll rattle off fifteen different ministries that they do and I and I get ministries that they do and I and I get ministries that they do and I and I get tired just thinking about what I'm like tired just thinking about what I'm like tired just thinking about what I'm like how is it you're doing all those things how is it you're doing all those things how is it you're doing all those things have you noticed that as you've started have you noticed that as you've started have you noticed that as you've started to interact with other churches that to interact with other churches that to interact with other churches that there seems to be you know churches that there seems to be you know churches that there seems to be you know churches that are able to reach the next generation are able to reach the next generation are able to reach the next generation have narrowed the focused or have kind have narrowed the focused or have kind have narrowed the focused or have kind of you know really focused on their of you know really focused on their of you know really focused on their essentials is that is that a pretty essentials is that is that a pretty essentials is that is that a pretty common trend you're seeing it seems to common trend you're seeing it seems to common trend you're seeing it seems to be and a very a book that was very be and a very a book that was very be and a very a book that was very profound and helpful early in their profound and helpful early in their profound and helpful early in their stage was Tom Rainer's book simple stage was Tom Rainer's book simple stage was Tom Rainer's book simple church nurture which basically said you church nurture which basically said you church nurture which basically said you know studies have shown that perhaps the know studies have shown that perhaps the know studies have shown that perhaps the highest impact churches tend to have a highest impact churches tend to have a highest impact churches tend to have a smaller number of things that they try smaller number of things that they try smaller number of things that they try to focus on right and that kind of focus to focus on right and that kind of focus to focus on right and that kind of focus has shifted to a lot of things even like has shifted to a lot of things even like has shifted to a lot of things even like our missions program instead of having our missions program instead of having our missions program instead of having 50 missionaries around the world that we 50 missionaries around the world that we 50 missionaries around the world that we put a few dollars in each month you know put a few dollars in each month you know put a few dollars in each month you know we've picked like compassion we've picked like compassion we've picked like compassion international and we sponsor hundreds of international and we sponsor hundreds of international and we sponsor hundreds of children in one particular community children in one particular community children in one particular community very cool we travel there and that's and very cool we travel there and that's and very cool we travel there and that's and so focus has changed the way that kind so focus has changed the way that kind so focus has changed the way that kind of focus has changed everything we do of focus has changed everything we do of focus has changed everything we do very cool so now what maybe tell me it very cool so now what maybe tell me it very cool so now what maybe tell me it give us a story a thing started to

give us a story a thing started to give us a story a thing started to change started to shift change started to shift change started to shift so I there was I was there like all of a so I there was I was there like all of a so I there was I was there like all of a sudden there was like a 28 year old with sudden there was like a 28 year old with sudden there was like a 28 year old with some funky hair that showed up one some funky hair that showed up one some funky hair that showed up one Sunday and then everyone's like oh my Sunday and then everyone's like oh my Sunday and then everyone's like oh my goodness it's working but so what what goodness it's working but so what what goodness it's working but so what what happened as things started to turn happened as things started to turn happened as things started to turn around well I think as we started to around well I think as we started to around well I think as we started to make some changes like for instance our make some changes like for instance our make some changes like for instance our facilities yep we had a large facility facilities yep we had a large facility facilities yep we had a large facility 50,000 square feet oh wow imagine under 50,000 square feet oh wow imagine under 50,000 square feet oh wow imagine under 50 it's amazing oh my goodness yeah just 50 it's amazing oh my goodness yeah just 50 it's amazing oh my goodness yeah just we would lower about we would lower about we would lower about you know we're on an interest-only plan you know we're on an interest-only plan you know we're on an interest-only plan with the bank we were one foot in the with the bank we were one foot in the with the bank we were one foot in the grave yeah of 50,000 square feet not one grave yeah of 50,000 square feet not one grave yeah of 50,000 square feet not one square inch was dedicated to children square inch was dedicated to children square inch was dedicated to children and youth what it was all adult and youth what it was all adult and youth what it was all adult multi-purpose space that's unbelievable multi-purpose space that's unbelievable multi-purpose space that's unbelievable and the attitude was you know the kids and the attitude was you know the kids and the attitude was you know the kids can use this when we're not using it it can use this when we're not using it it can use this when we're not using it it just better look the same as when oh my just better look the same as when oh my just better look the same as when oh my goodness when they got there oh my goodness when they got there oh my goodness when they got there oh my goodness and so we took our Chapel which goodness and so we took our Chapel which goodness and so we took our Chapel which was a major part of our building you and was a major part of our building you and was a major part of our building you and did in to it a children's theater oh my did in to it a children's theater oh my did in to it a children's theater oh my god look more like a Nickelodeon or a god look more like a Nickelodeon or a god look more like a Nickelodeon or a Disney set and and it was such a huge Disney set and and it was such a huge Disney set and and it was such a huge change and people were saying you know change and people were saying you know change and people were saying you know one person left the church saying why do one person left the church saying why do one person left the church saying why do we need a specialized area in our church we need a specialized area in our church we need a specialized area in our church for children and youth we have no for children and youth we have no for children and youth we have no children in you oh my goodness and that children in you oh my goodness and that children in you oh my goodness and that was the point yes exactly was the point yes exactly was the point yes exactly we moved several ministries to other we moved several ministries to other we moved several ministries to other churches including a food bank and a churches including a food bank and a churches including a food bank and a drug rehab program and some other things

drug rehab program and some other things drug rehab program and some other things to make room for our children took a to make room for our children took a to make room for our children took a criticism is you would imagine I can criticism is you would imagine I can criticism is you would imagine I can imagine Wow but but then all of a sudden imagine Wow but but then all of a sudden imagine Wow but but then all of a sudden people's people who were going to our people's people who were going to our people's people who were going to our church started to say to family members church started to say to family members church started to say to family members you know how you would never come to our you know how you would never come to our you know how you would never come to our church why don't you come in just one church why don't you come in just one church why don't you come in just one time and bring the kids and so people time and bring the kids and so people time and bring the kids and so people started to invite people again to our started to invite people again to our started to invite people again to our church and a little bit of the you know church and a little bit of the you know church and a little bit of the you know the buzz just starts just to spread the buzz just starts just to spread the buzz just starts just to spread something different is happening over something different is happening over something different is happening over there and yeah they're they really care there and yeah they're they really care there and yeah they're they really care about kids right and we never had that about kids right and we never had that about kids right and we never had that reputation no that's amazing you know I reputation no that's amazing you know I reputation no that's amazing you know I want to underline that for leaders who want to underline that for leaders who want to underline that for leaders who are listening in today you can take are listening in today you can take are listening in today you can take churches from a wide variety of you know churches from a wide variety of you know churches from a wide variety of you know theological convictions from you know theological convictions from you know theological convictions from you know wide variety of backgrounds and kind of wide variety of backgrounds and kind of wide variety of backgrounds and kind of things that they you know emphasize but things that they you know emphasize but things that they you know emphasize but the churches that are making a the churches that are making a the churches that are making a difference are investing in their difference are investing in their difference are investing in their children's ministry particularly and children's ministry particularly and children's ministry particularly and their student ministry as well that is their student ministry as well that is their student ministry as well that is critical to reaching the next generation critical to reaching the next generation critical to reaching the next generation and and you may be today that may be a and and you may be today that may be a and and you may be today that may be a great practical next step is to say hey great practical next step is to say hey great practical next step is to say hey how are we going to do that what do we how are we going to do that what do we how are we going to do that what do we need need need in in that particular area how did you in in that particular area how did you in in that particular area how did you whether those like even just that one whether those like even just that one whether those like even just that one change of like okay we're gonna take a change of like okay we're gonna take a change of like okay we're gonna take a chapel and we're gonna turn it into a chapel and we're gonna turn it into a chapel and we're gonna turn it into a Nickelodeon theater did everyone just be Nickelodeon theater did everyone just be Nickelodeon theater did everyone just be like I'll least that's greatly you just like I'll least that's greatly you just like I'll least that's greatly you just go ahead and do that that's fine what go ahead and do that that's fine what go ahead and do that that's fine what was that like you know as a leader was that like you know as a leader was that like you know as a leader weathering that sort of change well it

weathering that sort of change well it weathering that sort of change well it was challenging because some new people was challenging because some new people was challenging because some new people started to come yep but probably of our started to come yep but probably of our started to come yep but probably of our first two years and I see two years as first two years and I see two years as first two years and I see two years as being a time frame in which we if we're being a time frame in which we if we're being a time frame in which we if we're going to make a turnaround in the church going to make a turnaround in the church going to make a turnaround in the church due to your time frame I mean don't make due to your time frame I mean don't make due to your time frame I mean don't make it a ten year time frame fifteen year it a ten year time frame fifteen year it a ten year time frame fifteen year right and so during that two year time right and so during that two year time right and so during that two year time frame in which we implemented a lot of frame in which we implemented a lot of frame in which we implemented a lot of change about a third of the people who change about a third of the people who change about a third of the people who had been attending the church found had been attending the church found had been attending the church found other churches that were more like the other churches that were more like the other churches that were more like the church that we had been so that was church that we had been so that was church that we had been so that was difficult uh and you know not everybody difficult uh and you know not everybody difficult uh and you know not everybody embraced it one person left who was very embraced it one person left who was very embraced it one person left who was very supportive of she said I love the idea supportive of she said I love the idea supportive of she said I love the idea of reaching children youth but not to of reaching children youth but not to of reaching children youth but not to change like this right they do become I change like this right they do become I change like this right they do become I just don't want to do anything different just don't want to do anything different just don't want to do anything different and so these weren't evil change and so these weren't evil change and so these weren't evil change resistors they were just people who were resistors they were just people who were resistors they were just people who were holding on to things that I had taught holding on to things that I had taught holding on to things that I had taught them to love and just weren't all that them to love and just weren't all that them to love and just weren't all that open and especially when we started you open and especially when we started you open and especially when we started you know I met a pastor as a young guy who know I met a pastor as a young guy who know I met a pastor as a young guy who he had a storefront Church and in this he had a storefront Church and in this he had a storefront Church and in this storefront Church he had about 20 people storefront Church he had about 20 people storefront Church he had about 20 people or so and he was telling me a story that or so and he was telling me a story that or so and he was telling me a story that made me realize he never was going to made me realize he never was going to made me realize he never was going to grow further he used to bring his dog to grow further he used to bring his dog to grow further he used to bring his dog to church and the dog sat in front of the church and the dog sat in front of the church and the dog sat in front of the pulpit and during the message would howl pulpit and during the message would howl pulpit and during the message would howl which he would say bark and howl and he which he would say bark and howl and he which he would say bark and howl and he would say you know the Holy Spirit must would say you know the Holy Spirit must would say you know the Holy Spirit must be moving and the people who were there be moving and the people who were there be moving and the people who were there they they were kind of used to it but a they they were kind of used to it but a they they were kind of used to it but a visitor came to them after a service and visitor came to them after a service and visitor came to them after a service and said I really liked what you had to say said I really liked what you had to say said I really liked what you had to say but the dog was a distraction right and

but the dog was a distraction right and but the dog was a distraction right and he said he told me quite proudly he said he said he told me quite proudly he said he said he told me quite proudly he said I said to her you know what I love my I said to her you know what I love my I said to her you know what I love my dog and if it's between you or the dog dog and if it's between you or the dog dog and if it's between you or the dog the dog stays oh my goodness and to me the dog stays oh my goodness and to me the dog stays oh my goodness and to me know that is such an extreme thing but know that is such an extreme thing but know that is such an extreme thing but our churches are filled with barking our churches are filled with barking our churches are filled with barking dogs week was filled with barking dogs dogs week was filled with barking dogs dogs week was filled with barking dogs so we're you know PA parent young so we're you know PA parent young so we're you know PA parent young parents are bringing their kids to our parents are bringing their kids to our parents are bringing their kids to our church but if they find that there were church but if they find that there were church but if they find that there were several things about our church many several things about our church many several things about our church many things that had become pet peeves that things that had become pet peeves that things that had become pet peeves that became a part of what we thought who we became a part of what we thought who we became a part of what we thought who we were but they weren't who we were they were but they weren't who we were they were but they weren't who we were they were they were actually things that were were they were actually things that were were they were actually things that were distracting people from seeing who we distracting people from seeing who we distracting people from seeing who we were and so I think when we started to were and so I think when we started to were and so I think when we started to eliminate our barking dogs that's when eliminate our barking dogs that's when eliminate our barking dogs that's when that that's what cost us the most that that's what cost us the most that that's what cost us the most resistance to change because dogs are resistance to change because dogs are resistance to change because dogs are beloved pets right beloved pets right beloved pets right sacred dogs as opposed to sacred cows sacred dogs as opposed to sacred cows sacred dogs as opposed to sacred cows exactly no it's so true and I think exactly no it's so true and I think exactly no it's so true and I think there is a gift that new people coming there is a gift that new people coming there is a gift that new people coming to our all of our churches give us which to our all of our churches give us which to our all of our churches give us which is fresh eyes and to see things is fresh eyes and to see things is fresh eyes and to see things differently and we have to have humility differently and we have to have humility differently and we have to have humility all As Leaders we have to have humility all As Leaders we have to have humility all As Leaders we have to have humility to listen to listen to what people are to listen to listen to what people are to listen to listen to what people are saying and probably be more importantly saying and probably be more importantly saying and probably be more importantly to listen to what they're not saying and to listen to what they're not saying and to listen to what they're not saying and and lean in and understand well well and lean in and understand well well and lean in and understand well well let's kind of zoom forward where is let's kind of zoom forward where is let's kind of zoom forward where is amplify today what does it look like if amplify today what does it look like if amplify today what does it look like if we were to arrive this weekend how have we were to arrive this weekend how have we were to arrive this weekend how have things changed since you know since

things changed since you know since things changed since you know since these changes have have gone through these changes have have gone through these changes have have gone through well our attendance is between a little well our attendance is between a little well our attendance is between a little more than 16-hundred there are three more than 16-hundred there are three more than 16-hundred there are three cameras that yeah but I think what's cameras that yeah but I think what's cameras that yeah but I think what's most exciting is we're a most exciting is we're a most exciting is we're a multi-generational church again average multi-generational church again average multi-generational church again average age is just about 35 which is the age is just about 35 which is the age is just about 35 which is the average age of Ark in the community average age of Ark in the community average age of Ark in the community we're serving but you go in and you see we're serving but you go in and you see we're serving but you go in and you see every generation well represented which every generation well represented which every generation well represented which is how I think Paul assumed churches is how I think Paul assumed churches is how I think Paul assumed churches would be when it talked about older men would be when it talked about older men would be when it talked about older men and younger men and older women and and younger men and older women and and younger men and older women and younger women and so in that way we're younger women and so in that way we're younger women and so in that way we're not the biggest Church in town and not the biggest Church in town and not the biggest Church in town and probably don't even qualify as a mega probably don't even qualify as a mega probably don't even qualify as a mega church but we're healthy again mm-hmm church but we're healthy again mm-hmm church but we're healthy again mm-hmm that's very cool now when you look to that's very cool now when you look to that's very cool now when you look to the future are there parts of what the future are there parts of what the future are there parts of what you're doing where you feel like we're you're doing where you feel like we're you're doing where you feel like we're still in need of some change we still still in need of some change we still still in need of some change we still need to kind of push forward and and and need to kind of push forward and and and need to kind of push forward and and and to continue to reach the people in our to continue to reach the people in our to continue to reach the people in our community and what would those things be community and what would those things be community and what would those things be well actually you know we're this year well actually you know we're this year well actually you know we're this year our core word that we felt that God was our core word that we felt that God was our core word that we felt that God was been you know leading us to focus on been you know leading us to focus on been you know leading us to focus on community and we have felt that if we're community and we have felt that if we're community and we have felt that if we're going to keep connecting more and more going to keep connecting more and more going to keep connecting more and more and that's the key you can have church and that's the key you can have church and that's the key you can have church revitalization which is about how do we revitalization which is about how do we revitalization which is about how do we add to our attendance you know but to me add to our attendance you know but to me add to our attendance you know but to me true Church revitalization is how do we true Church revitalization is how do we true Church revitalization is how do we put things into place that makes sure put things into place that makes sure put things into place that makes sure that we don't could just get connected that we don't could just get connected that we don't could just get connected but we stay connected to the next but we stay connected to the next but we stay connected to the next generation yep generation yep generation yep and even in these 15 years it seems that and even in these 15 years it seems that and even in these 15 years it seems that the need for community is escalating yes

the need for community is escalating yes the need for community is escalating yes at all ages but particularly in this you at all ages but particularly in this you at all ages but particularly in this you know 20-something 30-something age group know 20-something 30-something age group know 20-something 30-something age group and I know you're a lot closer to that and I know you're a lot closer to that and I know you're a lot closer to that than I am we're talking about how you than I am we're talking about how you than I am we're talking about how you know we've got great music we've got I I know we've got great music we've got I I know we've got great music we've got I I trust our great messages - great it's a trust our great messages - great it's a trust our great messages - great it's a good but those who have become a good but those who have become a good but those who have become a commodity online so how do we create commodity online so how do we create commodity online so how do we create compelling experiences that people say I compelling experiences that people say I compelling experiences that people say I got to be there and so that's been a big got to be there and so that's been a big got to be there and so that's been a big focus for us this year and it's led us focus for us this year and it's led us focus for us this year and it's led us to changing a number of things to try to changing a number of things to try to changing a number of things to try and do that you know one of the things I and do that you know one of the things I and do that you know one of the things I want to encourage leaders to do is to want to encourage leaders to do is to want to encourage leaders to do is to route is to surround themselves with route is to surround themselves with route is to surround themselves with trusted leaders in their 20s who will trusted leaders in their 20s who will trusted leaders in their 20s who will keep you sharp you know I was in a keep you sharp you know I was in a keep you sharp you know I was in a conversation earlier this year with a conversation earlier this year with a conversation earlier this year with a dear friend trusted leader who you know dear friend trusted leader who you know dear friend trusted leader who you know was speaking with I would say like I've was speaking with I would say like I've was speaking with I would say like I've always prided our church on being like always prided our church on being like always prided our church on being like hey we're pretty contemporary we're hey we're pretty contemporary we're hey we're pretty contemporary we're pretty modern but this this guy you know pretty modern but this this guy you know pretty modern but this this guy you know mid-20s was like yeah not really like mid-20s was like yeah not really like mid-20s was like yeah not really like it's a bunch of guys in their forties it's a bunch of guys in their forties it's a bunch of guys in their forties and you know that kids starting to feel and you know that kids starting to feel and you know that kids starting to feel kind of old that's starting to feel you kind of old that's starting to feel you kind of old that's starting to feel you know and one of the things so we were know and one of the things so we were know and one of the things so we were talking about stylistic issues but then talking about stylistic issues but then talking about stylistic issues but then also some of the authenticity and also some of the authenticity and also some of the authenticity and community issues that you see you speak community issues that you see you speak community issues that you see you speak to you know it was saying hey you know I to you know it was saying hey you know I to you know it was saying hey you know I like yeah I know love you you know love like yeah I know love you you know love like yeah I know love you you know love what you're saying but you know are we what you're saying but you know are we what you're saying but you know are we really being authentic as a community really being authentic as a community really being authentic as a community are we or are we just putting on a good

are we or are we just putting on a good are we or are we just putting on a good show and how are we you know pushing show and how are we you know pushing show and how are we you know pushing that night it was one of those you know that night it was one of those you know that night it was one of those you know you receive it's it's like that you know you receive it's it's like that you know you receive it's it's like that you know that great proverb that you know the that great proverb that you know the that great proverb that you know the that a brother that comes close can you that a brother that comes close can you that a brother that comes close can you can jab you and you're like oh I take can jab you and you're like oh I take can jab you and you're like oh I take that from you I take that as opposed to that from you I take that as opposed to that from you I take that as opposed to you know kind words from an enemy you you know kind words from an enemy you you know kind words from an enemy you know for sure so so I would encourage know for sure so so I would encourage know for sure so so I would encourage you that you know we're not the I the you that you know we're not the I the you that you know we're not the I the the goal of staying connected to the the goal of staying connected to the the goal of staying connected to the next generation is ever evolving it's a next generation is ever evolving it's a next generation is ever evolving it's a constant thing and how do we keep constant thing and how do we keep constant thing and how do we keep staying on top of that no you actually staying on top of that no you actually staying on top of that no you actually wrote a book that kind of tells a bit of wrote a book that kind of tells a bit of wrote a book that kind of tells a bit of this story and also really is a really a this story and also really is a really a this story and also really is a really a practical help for churches why don't practical help for churches why don't practical help for churches why don't you tell us about that and why did you you tell us about that and why did you you tell us about that and why did you write that book well we had cemani write that book well we had cemani write that book well we had cemani pastors and people knew about our church pastors and people knew about our church pastors and people knew about our church and they knew that we were on our last and they knew that we were on our last and they knew that we were on our last legs right then all of a sudden they legs right then all of a sudden they legs right then all of a sudden they hear that we're growing again and that hear that we're growing again and that hear that we're growing again and that went from an old church to a young went from an old church to a young went from an old church to a young church or at least a multi-generational church or at least a multi-generational church or at least a multi-generational Church again so I was getting a lot of Church again so I was getting a lot of Church again so I was getting a lot of field trips from pastors coming visit field trips from pastors coming visit field trips from pastors coming visit with their leaders and saying what did with their leaders and saying what did with their leaders and saying what did you do so I took those questions and you do so I took those questions and you do so I took those questions and built this book for a new generation built this book for a new generation built this book for a new generation that just came out last month with that just came out last month with that just came out last month with HarperCollins and it talked about what HarperCollins and it talked about what HarperCollins and it talked about what are the five core strategies for are the five core strategies for are the five core strategies for leadership or at least maybe you've been leadership or at least maybe you've been leadership or at least maybe you've been think of it as categories in which think of it as categories in which think of it as categories in which you've got to deuce take some action and you've got to deuce take some action and you've got to deuce take some action and I wrote all the actions we took not to I wrote all the actions we took not to I wrote all the actions we took not to be prescriptive but to be provocative be prescriptive but to be provocative be prescriptive but to be provocative but these are proven categories that if

but these are proven categories that if but these are proven categories that if you're going to lead change and pastors you're going to lead change and pastors you're going to lead change and pastors can no longer think of change leadership can no longer think of change leadership can no longer think of change leadership as a nice option it's got to be one of as a nice option it's got to be one of as a nice option it's got to be one of their core skills that they develop their core skills that they develop their core skills that they develop whether they like to think of themselves whether they like to think of themselves whether they like to think of themselves in that way or not but the world around in that way or not but the world around in that way or not but the world around us is changing too dramatically for us us is changing too dramatically for us us is changing too dramatically for us to not learn how to lead our to not learn how to lead our to not learn how to lead our congregations and change and so this congregations and change and so this congregations and change and so this just gives the five categories that we just gives the five categories that we just gives the five categories that we use there are the five strategies to use there are the five strategies to use there are the five strategies to frame our changes and a lot of people frame our changes and a lot of people frame our changes and a lot of people have found it helpful because it is have found it helpful because it is have found it helpful because it is meant to be very practical meant to be very practical meant to be very practical yeah I'd strongly recommend you pick it yeah I'd strongly recommend you pick it yeah I'd strongly recommend you pick it up we'll put a link to it in the show up we'll put a link to it in the show up we'll put a link to it in the show notes so people can can check that out notes so people can can check that out notes so people can can check that out you know if you've been around on you know if you've been around on you know if you've been around on seminary very long we talked about this seminary very long we talked about this seminary very long we talked about this number 94% of churches are our losing number 94% of churches are our losing number 94% of churches are our losing ground against the growth of the ground against the growth of the ground against the growth of the communities that they're in so a lot of communities that they're in so a lot of communities that they're in so a lot of times you'll hear it's like 80% of times you'll hear it's like 80% of times you'll hear it's like 80% of churches are plateaued or decline churches are plateaued or decline churches are plateaued or decline it's actually worse than that because it's actually worse than that because it's actually worse than that because there are a segment of churches that are there are a segment of churches that are there are a segment of churches that are growing but they're not growing as growing but they're not growing as growing but they're not growing as quickly as there as the communities quickly as there as the communities quickly as there as the communities they're in which means 94 percent of they're in which means 94 percent of they're in which means 94 percent of churches are losing ground against the churches are losing ground against the churches are losing ground against the you know communities they serve and so you know communities they serve and so you know communities they serve and so we need to be I love that word all we need to be I love that word all we need to be I love that word all pastors need to be you know in change pastors need to be you know in change pastors need to be you know in change agents need to be a part of you know agents need to be a part of you know agents need to be a part of you know change leadership for sure so I'd change leadership for sure so I'd change leadership for sure so I'd strongly recommend you pick up Lee's strongly recommend you pick up Lee's strongly recommend you pick up Lee's book for sure anything else you want to book for sure anything else you want to book for sure anything else you want to share Lee before we move on with the share Lee before we move on with the share Lee before we move on with the rest of the episode on for a new rest of the episode on for a new rest of the episode on for a new generation comm there are a few tools generation comm there are a few tools generation comm there are a few tools that may be helpful for people but I that may be helpful for people but I that may be helpful for people but I think the the primary thing is accepting think the the primary thing is accepting think the the primary thing is accepting the status quo is the biggest danger

the status quo is the biggest danger the status quo is the biggest danger imaginable to your church in this imaginable to your church in this imaginable to your church in this rapidly changing world and so rapidly changing world and so rapidly changing world and so considering changing the way you do considering changing the way you do considering changing the way you do things in the future it's a church that things in the future it's a church that things in the future it's a church that doesn't dishonor your past that just doesn't dishonor your past that just doesn't dishonor your past that just guarantees that you'll have a future guarantees that you'll have a future guarantees that you'll have a future this is the unsummon airy podcast stuff this is the unsummon airy podcast stuff this is the unsummon airy podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary all you wish they taught in seminary all you wish they taught in seminary all right well we're gonna jump into the right well we're gonna jump into the right well we're gonna jump into the lightning round that part of the episode lightning round that part of the episode lightning round that part of the episode where you ask similar questions of where you ask similar questions of where you ask similar questions of everybody that's on the show honored to everybody that's on the show honored to everybody that's on the show honored to have leaked right you're with us today have leaked right you're with us today have leaked right you're with us today from amplified Church in Pittsburgh from amplified Church in Pittsburgh from amplified Church in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania you really should check out Pennsylvania you really should check out Pennsylvania you really should check out Lee and and amplify leave what's an Lee and and amplify leave what's an Lee and and amplify leave what's an online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these online resource that you're using these days that's helping you in your ministry days that's helping you in your ministry days that's helping you in your ministry well it's funny I think the one and well it's funny I think the one and well it's funny I think the one and since I was a young pastor before this since I was a young pastor before this since I was a young pastor before this even existed yeah Bible game Bible even existed yeah Bible game Bible even existed yeah Bible game Bible Gateway is where I spend nice yes and so Gateway is where I spend nice yes and so Gateway is where I spend nice yes and so much of my week in studying and much of my week in studying and much of my week in studying and preparing and I just love it and I know preparing and I just love it and I know preparing and I just love it and I know that seems very simplistic oh it's great that seems very simplistic oh it's great that seems very simplistic oh it's great it's something that's powerful it's something that's powerful it's something that's powerful I love the leadership network so leading I love the leadership network so leading I love the leadership network so leading that you know is is great and GLS we that you know is is great and GLS we that you know is is great and GLS we sponsored the Global Leadership Summit sponsored the Global Leadership Summit sponsored the Global Leadership Summit with Bill Hybels and they've got an app with Bill Hybels and they've got an app with Bill Hybels and they've got an app called GLS next which has so so many called GLS next which has so so many called GLS next which has so so many great little tidbits of leadership great little tidbits of leadership great little tidbits of leadership wisdom and knowledge on it yep so that's wisdom and knowledge on it yep so that's wisdom and knowledge on it yep so that's just some things very cool that's great just some things very cool that's great just some things very cool that's great what's a book you've read in the last I what's a book you've read in the last I what's a book you've read in the last I don't know maybe six months to a year don't know maybe six months to a year don't know maybe six months to a year that's shaping your thinking in your that's shaping your thinking in your that's shaping your thinking in your ministry actually I think Kerry newhoff ministry actually I think Kerry newhoff ministry actually I think Kerry newhoff has a book called lasting impact yep and has a book called lasting impact yep and has a book called lasting impact yep and so our entire senior staff is reading it so our entire senior staff is reading it so our entire senior staff is reading it yep and we're going through this art

yep and we're going through this art yep and we're going through this art devotional the devotional the devotional the over this summer and fall and so we just over this summer and fall and so we just over this summer and fall and so we just went through one of the chapters went through one of the chapters went through one of the chapters yesterday and I think he's a tremendous yesterday and I think he's a tremendous yesterday and I think he's a tremendous thought leader when it comes to how do thought leader when it comes to how do thought leader when it comes to how do we get and stay connected to the next we get and stay connected to the next we get and stay connected to the next generation and its really provoking us generation and its really provoking us generation and its really provoking us to not just say wow we made some great to not just say wow we made some great to not just say wow we made some great changes 10 years ago but how do we need changes 10 years ago but how do we need changes 10 years ago but how do we need to keep changing and growing absolutely to keep changing and growing absolutely to keep changing and growing absolutely I love it's a great book gets on my I love it's a great book gets on my I love it's a great book gets on my must-read list for folks definitely a must-read list for folks definitely a must-read list for folks definitely a great book and also love that it really great book and also love that it really great book and also love that it really is designed to help you have is designed to help you have is designed to help you have conversations as a team conversations as a team conversations as a team exactly really it's just seven exactly really it's just seven exactly really it's just seven conversations that you should be conversations that you should be conversations that you should be wrestling through and although Kari wrestling through and although Kari wrestling through and although Kari gives you some thoughts it really leaves gives you some thoughts it really leaves gives you some thoughts it really leaves it to you to wrestle through hey what it to you to wrestle through hey what it to you to wrestle through hey what does that mean for you it's a it's a does that mean for you it's a it's a does that mean for you it's a it's a great resource for sure what do by the great resource for sure what do by the great resource for sure what do by the way that goes with that Oh unless you're way that goes with that Oh unless you're way that goes with that Oh unless you're doing the angle II hear him talk about doing the angle II hear him talk about doing the angle II hear him talk about the chapter before we discuss it so good the chapter before we discuss it so good the chapter before we discuss it so good good what's another ministry you're good what's another ministry you're good what's another ministry you're looking to that inspires you these days looking to that inspires you these days looking to that inspires you these days I think because my wife and I were I think because my wife and I were I think because my wife and I were members of North Point Community Church members of North Point Community Church members of North Point Community Church yep and so I just heard a podcast yep and so I just heard a podcast yep and so I just heard a podcast yesterday by Andy Stanley I think it was yesterday by Andy Stanley I think it was yesterday by Andy Stanley I think it was called called called leadership challenge or challenging leadership challenge or challenging leadership challenge or challenging leadership so powerful so amazing I leadership so powerful so amazing I leadership so powerful so amazing I forwarded on to all of our team and I forwarded on to all of our team and I forwarded on to all of our team and I just find him to be one of the great just find him to be one of the great just find him to be one of the great change leaders in the in in the world change leaders in the in in the world change leaders in the in in the world today and absolutely today and absolutely today and absolutely Andy's he's like the Pope basically he's Andy's he's like the Pope basically he's Andy's he's like the Pope basically he's been he would be up there as you know been he would be up there as you know been he would be up there as you know he's just a great they do such a great

he's just a great they do such a great he's just a great they do such a great you know such a great job across the you know such a great job across the you know such a great job across the board if you get 15 minutes with any board if you get 15 minutes with any board if you get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would that be with and leader alive who would that be with and leader alive who would that be with and why well I mean Andy would be a good yes why well I mean Andy would be a good yes why well I mean Andy would be a good yes late for that yes Ryan Hillsong has had late for that yes Ryan Hillsong has had late for that yes Ryan Hillsong has had a I mean Brian Houston from Hillsong has a I mean Brian Houston from Hillsong has a I mean Brian Houston from Hillsong has had a big influence on our church yep had a big influence on our church yep had a big influence on our church yep and I don't know Bill Hybels and I don't know Bill Hybels and I don't know Bill Hybels I think you know I think perhaps it I think you know I think perhaps it I think you know I think perhaps it would be Bill Hybels just because he's would be Bill Hybels just because he's would be Bill Hybels just because he's been for so long so consistent and it been for so long so consistent and it been for so long so consistent and it keeps reinventing himself and his keeps reinventing himself and his keeps reinventing himself and his organization and I think he also organization and I think he also organization and I think he also understands the power of leadership understands the power of leadership understands the power of leadership effectiveness and He pours himself into effectiveness and He pours himself into effectiveness and He pours himself into helping others become better leaders I helping others become better leaders I helping others become better leaders I just I just think he's got such just I just think he's got such just I just think he's got such tremendous tremendous tremendous in fact in the world absolutely for sure in fact in the world absolutely for sure in fact in the world absolutely for sure yeah well I'm sure you know leading at yeah well I'm sure you know leading at yeah well I'm sure you know leading at the church a growing church that's you the church a growing church that's you the church a growing church that's you know making changes takes a lot of know making changes takes a lot of know making changes takes a lot of effort and energy but then you know when effort and energy but then you know when effort and energy but then you know when you just want to you know kick back you just want to you know kick back you just want to you know kick back relax you know what do you do for fun relax you know what do you do for fun relax you know what do you do for fun how do you how do you relax ly why live how do you how do you relax ly why live how do you how do you relax ly why live in Pittsburgh so Pittsburgh is a sports in Pittsburgh so Pittsburgh is a sports in Pittsburgh so Pittsburgh is a sports town yes Emily so we've got season town yes Emily so we've got season town yes Emily so we've got season tickets for the Pirates oh nice tickets for the Pirates oh nice tickets for the Pirates oh nice partial season ticket so we're down to partial season ticket so we're down to partial season ticket so we're down to pirates a lot yeah get to a lot of pirates a lot yeah get to a lot of pirates a lot yeah get to a lot of Penguins games when I can yes Steelers Penguins games when I can yes Steelers Penguins games when I can yes Steelers games are little crazy I think sports is games are little crazy I think sports is games are little crazy I think sports is a big thing and my wife and I do a fair a big thing and my wife and I do a fair a big thing and my wife and I do a fair amount of travel at this season in our amount of travel at this season in our amount of travel at this season in our life and wonderful well Lee I really

life and wonderful well Lee I really life and wonderful well Lee I really appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today appreciate you being on the show today if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you if people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that or with the church how can they do that or with the church how can they do that well I think for new generation comm is well I think for new generation comm is well I think for new generation comm is a good way and they can even email me a good way and they can even email me a good way and they can even email me directly from there if they want to directly from there if they want to directly from there if they want to check out the church just amplified check out the church just amplified check out the church just amplified Church comm and both of those are ways Church comm and both of those are ways Church comm and both of those are ways to get a little more information and get to get a little more information and get to get a little more information and get in touch nice in touch nice in touch nice Lee I really appreciate that thank you Lee I really appreciate that thank you Lee I really appreciate that thank you so much for being on the episode today so much for being on the episode today so much for being on the episode today thank you so much rich thank you so much rich thank you so much rich god bless thank you for tuning in to god bless thank you for tuning in to god bless thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be this week's unsung re podcast don't be this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie shy we'd love to connect check out uncie shy we'd love to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful re calm and we'll send you helpful re calm and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus training resources every week plus training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't email rich at unsummon Ericom don't email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset Maneri calm it this episode at unset Maneri calm it this episode at unset Maneri calm it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a episode drop by iTunes and leave a episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary wish they taught in seminary wish they taught in seminary [Music]