Heather Larson Offers Insights from Willow Creek’s Succession Process

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alone join world hey you're not alone join world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast well hey this week's unseminary podcast well hey this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody Welcome to the unseminary everybody Welcome to the unseminary everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast thank you so much for listening podcast thank you so much for listening podcast thank you so much for listening in happy Thursday I'm just so honored in happy Thursday I'm just so honored in happy Thursday I'm just so honored that you would put put us in your that you would put put us in your that you would put put us in your earbuds today we know you've got a lot earbuds today we know you've got a lot earbuds today we know you've got a lot going on at your church as especially as going on at your church as especially as going on at your church as especially as we head into this weekend and I'm just we head into this weekend and I'm just we head into this weekend and I'm just honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time honored that you would take some time out today you're going to be rewarded out today you're going to be rewarded out today you're going to be rewarded for listening in because we've got for listening in because we've got for listening in because we've got Heather Larson she's the executive Heather Larson she's the executive Heather Larson she's the executive pastor at Willow Creek Community Church pastor at Willow Creek Community Church pastor at Willow Creek Community Church you no doubt have heard of Willow uh you no doubt have heard of Willow uh you no doubt have heard of Willow uh really a church of incredible influence really a church of incredible influence really a church of incredible influence um not only in the Chicagoland area um not only in the Chicagoland area um not only in the Chicagoland area where their campuses are but really where their campuses are but really where their campuses are but really around the world about you know over around the world about you know over around the world about you know over 20,000 people attend their locations 20,000 people attend their locations 20,000 people attend their locations throughout the Chicago land area um they throughout the Chicago land area um they throughout the Chicago land area um they started 40 years ago at the Willow Creek started 40 years ago at the Willow Creek started 40 years ago at the Willow Creek Theater which is hard to believe when I Theater which is hard to believe when I Theater which is hard to believe when I I saw that like wow it's amazing it's I saw that like wow it's amazing it's I saw that like wow it's amazing it's been that long uh and and Heather is the been that long uh and and Heather is the been that long uh and and Heather is the executive Pastor there Heather welcome executive Pastor there Heather welcome executive Pastor there Heather welcome to the show to the show to the show oh thank you so much Rich I'm excited to

oh thank you so much Rich I'm excited to oh thank you so much Rich I'm excited to be here and looking forward to talking be here and looking forward to talking be here and looking forward to talking with you oh no thank you so much for with you oh no thank you so much for with you oh no thank you so much for folks now there's probably not a lot of folks now there's probably not a lot of folks now there's probably not a lot of those but for folks that don't know of those but for folks that don't know of those but for folks that don't know of Willow kind of give us the willow story Willow kind of give us the willow story Willow kind of give us the willow story and then tell us a little bit of the and then tell us a little bit of the and then tell us a little bit of the Heather Larson Story how does your life Heather Larson Story how does your life Heather Larson Story how does your life intersect with the story of Willow it's intersect with the story of Willow it's intersect with the story of Willow it's great well Willow is H we just great well Willow is H we just great well Willow is H we just celebrated our 40th anniversary uh last celebrated our 40th anniversary uh last celebrated our 40th anniversary uh last fall uh it was started four years ago fall uh it was started four years ago fall uh it was started four years ago out of really a high school youth group out of really a high school youth group out of really a high school youth group um That Grew into uh the Ministry that um That Grew into uh the Ministry that um That Grew into uh the Ministry that it is today so today we have uh eight it is today so today we have uh eight it is today so today we have uh eight campuses total our main South barington campuses total our main South barington campuses total our main South barington Campus we've got a Spanish-speaking Campus we've got a Spanish-speaking Campus we've got a Spanish-speaking campus that meets um on our uh Church uh campus that meets um on our uh Church uh campus that meets um on our uh Church uh as well and then we have six regionals as well and then we have six regionals as well and then we have six regionals around the Chicagoland area so I started around the Chicagoland area so I started around the Chicagoland area so I started on staff here at Willow about uh 18 on staff here at Willow about uh 18 on staff here at Willow about uh 18 years ago and uh came in working with years ago and uh came in working with years ago and uh came in working with our College Ministry and really I was our College Ministry and really I was our College Ministry and really I was right out of college myself I had a job right out of college myself I had a job right out of college myself I had a job with the American Red Cross before that with the American Red Cross before that with the American Red Cross before that but got involved at Willow absolutely but got involved at Willow absolutely but got involved at Willow absolutely loved it and continued to grow in my loved it and continued to grow in my loved it and continued to grow in my role and I've now been in the executive role and I've now been in the executive role and I've now been in the executive Pastor role for about three years Pastor role for about three years Pastor role for about three years fantastic well you know folks uh the fantastic well you know folks uh the fantastic well you know folks uh the church is still led by its founding church is still led by its founding church is still led by its founding Pastor a man by the name of Bill hibl Pastor a man by the name of Bill hibl Pastor a man by the name of Bill hibl obviously you know great leader and obviously you know great leader and obviously you know great leader and you're you know we ended up in an you're you know we ended up in an you're you know we ended up in an interesting conversation a couple months interesting conversation a couple months interesting conversation a couple months ago around you know succession and I ago around you know succession and I ago around you know succession and I really would love to you know hear about really would love to you know hear about really would love to you know hear about that I think there's a lot of churches that I think there's a lot of churches that I think there's a lot of churches um who really look to Willow in a lot of um who really look to Willow in a lot of um who really look to Willow in a lot of ways and I think are looking at whatever ways and I think are looking at whatever ways and I think are looking at whatever happens here in the coming years uh as happens here in the coming years uh as happens here in the coming years uh as really a chance to learn so no pressure really a chance to learn so no pressure really a chance to learn so no pressure don't screw this up um but we' I'd love don't screw this up um but we' I'd love don't screw this up um but we' I'd love to hear uh you know just your part in

to hear uh you know just your part in to hear uh you know just your part in that that puzzle and what is that that that puzzle and what is that that that puzzle and what is that looking like as we're kind of wrestling looking like as we're kind of wrestling looking like as we're kind of wrestling to to the Future here yeah well Bill uh to to the Future here yeah well Bill uh to to the Future here yeah well Bill uh described actually at the Leadership described actually at the Leadership described actually at the Leadership Summit uh a few years ago that we are in Summit uh a few years ago that we are in Summit uh a few years ago that we are in the midst of a multi-year succession the midst of a multi-year succession the midst of a multi-year succession plan that is about looking at how do we plan that is about looking at how do we plan that is about looking at how do we develop the future of Willow and you develop the future of Willow and you develop the future of Willow and you know so it's it's an ongoing know so it's it's an ongoing know so it's it's an ongoing conversation for us it's something we've conversation for us it's something we've conversation for us it's something we've been in the midst of it and a lot of us been in the midst of it and a lot of us been in the midst of it and a lot of us would say it's a very long process uh would say it's a very long process uh would say it's a very long process uh right now as well but I would say we right now as well but I would say we right now as well but I would say we feel a ton of um responsibility a ton of feel a ton of um responsibility a ton of feel a ton of um responsibility a ton of joy and a ton of just realizing the joy and a ton of just realizing the joy and a ton of just realizing the impact of what this could have uh to be impact of what this could have uh to be impact of what this could have uh to be able to really help transition the able to really help transition the able to really help transition the church from a founding Pastor who's been church from a founding Pastor who's been church from a founding Pastor who's been around to really handing off the keys uh around to really handing off the keys uh around to really handing off the keys uh to the Next Generation and it's what to the Next Generation and it's what to the Next Generation and it's what we're working towards it's what we're we're working towards it's what we're we're working towards it's what we're working hard on and only God knows what working hard on and only God knows what working hard on and only God knows what the exact outcome is going to be but we the exact outcome is going to be but we the exact outcome is going to be but we are in the thick of it right now are in the thick of it right now are in the thick of it right now absolutely well maybe we'll talk about absolutely well maybe we'll talk about absolutely well maybe we'll talk about um you know kind of the front end of um you know kind of the front end of um you know kind of the front end of this process so far what are some of the this process so far what are some of the this process so far what are some of the things that you've learned as you've you things that you've learned as you've you things that you've learned as you've you know started to think about the future know started to think about the future know started to think about the future started to think okay you know we are started to think okay you know we are started to think okay you know we are looking to hand the keys off um you know looking to hand the keys off um you know looking to hand the keys off um you know from Bill to kind of the Next Generation from Bill to kind of the Next Generation from Bill to kind of the Next Generation what are some of those early lessons what are some of those early lessons what are some of those early lessons that you're wrestling that you're wrestling that you're wrestling with I so one of the key things that I with I so one of the key things that I with I so one of the key things that I know you and I had talked about in our know you and I had talked about in our know you and I had talked about in our previous conversation is that we know previous conversation is that we know previous conversation is that we know that no one person can replace Bill uh that no one person can replace Bill uh that no one person can replace Bill uh Bill grew this ministry from the ground Bill grew this ministry from the ground Bill grew this ministry from the ground up he has more intricate knowledge of

up he has more intricate knowledge of up he has more intricate knowledge of the history and how things happened and the history and how things happened and the history and how things happened and he can look at something and he can spot he can look at something and he can spot he can look at something and he can spot a problem or an issue right away because a problem or an issue right away because a problem or an issue right away because he's been immersed in it for 40 years he's been immersed in it for 40 years he's been immersed in it for 40 years and we just know there it's not possible and we just know there it's not possible and we just know there it's not possible for one person to come in and fully take for one person to come in and fully take for one person to come in and fully take on the weight and responsibility of on the weight and responsibility of on the weight and responsibility of everything that he's carried so it everything that he's carried so it everything that he's carried so it really has moved us into talking about a really has moved us into talking about a really has moved us into talking about a team model um moving forward of more team model um moving forward of more team model um moving forward of more what would that look like what would what would that look like what would what would that look like what would that look like to split up some of the that look like to split up some of the that look like to split up some of the roles and responsibilities um that bill roles and responsibilities um that bill roles and responsibilities um that bill carries to really be able to see people carries to really be able to see people carries to really be able to see people thrive in the midst of um their thrive in the midst of um their thrive in the midst of um their giftedness and to really have a fully giftedness and to really have a fully giftedness and to really have a fully orbed team um that would help lead orbed team um that would help lead orbed team um that would help lead Willow into the future and you know we Willow into the future and you know we Willow into the future and you know we hav't nothing's finalized we haven't hav't nothing's finalized we haven't hav't nothing's finalized we haven't landed on anything yet um but for us landed on anything yet um but for us landed on anything yet um but for us we're really passionate about figuring we're really passionate about figuring we're really passionate about figuring out can team model of leadership work as out can team model of leadership work as out can team model of leadership work as we uh look towards the future in some we uh look towards the future in some we uh look towards the future in some way now are there other models that way now are there other models that way now are there other models that you're looking at or thinking through so you're looking at or thinking through so you're looking at or thinking through so one of the things I think is interesting one of the things I think is interesting one of the things I think is interesting about our particular um you know about our particular um you know about our particular um you know organizations that we lead is that often organizations that we lead is that often organizations that we lead is that often Founders or the leaders of churches um Founders or the leaders of churches um Founders or the leaders of churches um and this is a crass way to say it so I'm and this is a crass way to say it so I'm and this is a crass way to say it so I'm not saying you've ever said this this is not saying you've ever said this this is not saying you've ever said this this is me the way I've tried to capture it is me the way I've tried to capture it is me the way I've tried to capture it is you know there's a very real sense that you know there's a very real sense that you know there's a very real sense that a founder or whoever the lead Pastor is a founder or whoever the lead Pastor is a founder or whoever the lead Pastor is they not only lead the organization but they not only lead the organization but they not only lead the organization but in a very real sense they're kind of the in a very real sense they're kind of the in a very real sense they're kind of the core product of the organization people core product of the organization people core product of the organization people come because they like to hear they've

come because they like to hear they've come because they like to hear they've been blessed by that person's Ministry been blessed by that person's Ministry been blessed by that person's Ministry unlike in a corporate setting you know unlike in a corporate setting you know unlike in a corporate setting you know if if a a CEO who's maybe been the if if a a CEO who's maybe been the if if a a CEO who's maybe been the founder of the CEO it's grown um you founder of the CEO it's grown um you founder of the CEO it's grown um you know but at the end of the day there are know but at the end of the day there are know but at the end of the day there are very few examples maybe you know Steve very few examples maybe you know Steve very few examples maybe you know Steve Jobs maybe you know a few examples like Jobs maybe you know a few examples like Jobs maybe you know a few examples like that where you know the founder is that where you know the founder is that where you know the founder is really seen as really bolted to what the really seen as really bolted to what the really seen as really bolted to what the organization does organization does organization does but I think that's a unique challenge we but I think that's a unique challenge we but I think that's a unique challenge we have in churches how are you thinking have in churches how are you thinking have in churches how are you thinking about that issue how is that you know about that issue how is that you know about that issue how is that you know kind how are you addressing that there's kind how are you addressing that there's kind how are you addressing that there's kind of the content side of what a lead kind of the content side of what a lead kind of the content side of what a lead pastor does um but then there's also the pastor does um but then there's also the pastor does um but then there's also the leadership side of what a lead pastor leadership side of what a lead pastor leadership side of what a lead pastor does yeah very much so I you know I does yeah very much so I you know I does yeah very much so I you know I think that is part of the reason why think that is part of the reason why think that is part of the reason why this has been such a long process for us this has been such a long process for us this has been such a long process for us is that it's trying to address really is that it's trying to address really is that it's trying to address really what can be handed off and at what point what can be handed off and at what point what can be handed off and at what point does that get handed off I would say one does that get handed off I would say one does that get handed off I would say one of the mistakes that we made early on is of the mistakes that we made early on is of the mistakes that we made early on is that I think Bill had so much energy to that I think Bill had so much energy to that I think Bill had so much energy to figure out what he could hand off and figure out what he could hand off and figure out what he could hand off and how it was going to go that in the very how it was going to go that in the very how it was going to go that in the very beginning of this process I actually beginning of this process I actually beginning of this process I actually think he gave away too much of the think he gave away too much of the think he gave away too much of the teaching and too much of his voice and teaching and too much of his voice and teaching and too much of his voice and we ended up coming back and saying no no we ended up coming back and saying no no we ended up coming back and saying no no no like you're still here like we no like you're still here like we no like you're still here like we actually want you teaching more than actually want you teaching more than actually want you teaching more than what you have been doing I we want to what you have been doing I we want to what you have been doing I we want to leverage your gifts and your influence leverage your gifts and your influence leverage your gifts and your influence as long as you are in the seat that as long as you are in the seat that as long as you are in the seat that you're in so how do you keep leveraging you're in so how do you keep leveraging you're in so how do you keep leveraging the gifts that he brings and build into the gifts that he brings and build into the gifts that he brings and build into and raise up a younger generation um at and raise up a younger generation um at and raise up a younger generation um at the same time which is a very

the same time which is a very the same time which is a very interesting balance in between the two interesting balance in between the two interesting balance in between the two but I would say uh we spend a lot of but I would say uh we spend a lot of but I would say uh we spend a lot of time Bill's very intentional about not time Bill's very intentional about not time Bill's very intentional about not wanting our ministry to be Bild driven wanting our ministry to be Bild driven wanting our ministry to be Bild driven or focused on his personality and you or focused on his personality and you or focused on his personality and you know it's interesting we had someone know it's interesting we had someone know it's interesting we had someone come in just recently from the outside come in just recently from the outside come in just recently from the outside and they said it's one of the things and they said it's one of the things and they said it's one of the things that stood out to them the most about that stood out to them the most about that stood out to them the most about our culture is how much we are values our culture is how much we are values our culture is how much we are values driven and not Bild driven and in fact driven and not Bild driven and in fact driven and not Bild driven and in fact if something is quoted as being Bild if something is quoted as being Bild if something is quoted as being Bild driven bill goes after it no we are a driven bill goes after it no we are a driven bill goes after it no we are a values driven church we cannot be a values driven church we cannot be a values driven church we cannot be a personality driven church and I know personality driven church and I know personality driven church and I know that's intentional for him because he that's intentional for him because he that's intentional for him because he more than anybody wants to see Willow more than anybody wants to see Willow more than anybody wants to see Willow Thrive way into the future Beyond when Thrive way into the future Beyond when Thrive way into the future Beyond when he's leading it and he knows that's a he's leading it and he knows that's a he's leading it and he knows that's a critical part of it's got to be rooted critical part of it's got to be rooted critical part of it's got to be rooted in values in personality I think that's in values in personality I think that's in values in personality I think that's a huge takeaway you know hope people are a huge takeaway you know hope people are a huge takeaway you know hope people are leaning in on that for sure what are you leaning in on that for sure what are you leaning in on that for sure what are you doing from kind of a team development doing from kind of a team development doing from kind of a team development point of view a part of what I hear you point of view a part of what I hear you point of view a part of what I hear you saying is you know I get the impression saying is you know I get the impression saying is you know I get the impression that it's like hey we're all trying to that it's like hey we're all trying to that it's like hey we're all trying to figure out how across the board we we figure out how across the board we we figure out how across the board we we have a kind of a velocity of development have a kind of a velocity of development have a kind of a velocity of development within the organization to try to build within the organization to try to build within the organization to try to build Folks up what is that looking like um Folks up what is that looking like um Folks up what is that looking like um and how ises that relate to what's and how ises that relate to what's and how ises that relate to what's happening on this sucession you know happening on this sucession you know happening on this sucession you know side yeah I would say we while side yeah I would say we while side yeah I would say we while leadership development has been a key leadership development has been a key leadership development has been a key part of Willow um really since the very part of Willow um really since the very part of Willow um really since the very early days we have increased that and uh early days we have increased that and uh early days we have increased that and uh rais the heat on that in recent years at

rais the heat on that in recent years at rais the heat on that in recent years at just to Crazy levels but we would say it just to Crazy levels but we would say it just to Crazy levels but we would say it is the core of what we're doing is is the core of what we're doing is is the core of what we're doing is developing our teams and developing developing our teams and developing developing our teams and developing leaders and at the end of this process leaders and at the end of this process leaders and at the end of this process regardless of what the result is I know regardless of what the result is I know regardless of what the result is I know that every single one of us that are that every single one of us that are that every single one of us that are engaged in this season will be better engaged in this season will be better engaged in this season will be better people better lead ERS and better people better lead ERS and better people better lead ERS and better pastors because of how we've been pastors because of how we've been pastors because of how we've been developed through this time so uh for us developed through this time so uh for us developed through this time so uh for us as a team some of the key things that as a team some of the key things that as a team some of the key things that have been really important is first of have been really important is first of have been really important is first of all to put egos aside we all know that all to put egos aside we all know that all to put egos aside we all know that you know long run what we want is we you know long run what we want is we you know long run what we want is we want Willow to be set up to win and we want Willow to be set up to win and we want Willow to be set up to win and we want each of us to be able to thrive in want each of us to be able to thrive in want each of us to be able to thrive in who God has made us to be whether that's who God has made us to be whether that's who God has made us to be whether that's at Willow or elsewhere so for us as a at Willow or elsewhere so for us as a at Willow or elsewhere so for us as a team to say you know what we're none of team to say you know what we're none of team to say you know what we're none of us are fighting or competing for us are fighting or competing for us are fighting or competing for anything we're going to put egos aside anything we're going to put egos aside anything we're going to put egos aside we want God's best for Willow and we we want God's best for Willow and we we want God's best for Willow and we want God's best for each other and we're want God's best for each other and we're want God's best for each other and we're cheering each other on in that and cheering each other on in that and cheering each other on in that and really that's a key part because if really that's a key part because if really that's a key part because if anyone was positioning or you had Pride anyone was positioning or you had Pride anyone was positioning or you had Pride issues in the way what is already a very issues in the way what is already a very issues in the way what is already a very hard long and complicated process would hard long and complicated process would hard long and complicated process would become impossible if that was the case become impossible if that was the case become impossible if that was the case so we're working really hard on just so we're working really hard on just so we're working really hard on just keeping what is our end goal and uh keeping what is our end goal and uh keeping what is our end goal and uh really when we're ified in that way and really when we're ified in that way and really when we're ified in that way and focused on that it's I mean it makes it focused on that it's I mean it makes it focused on that it's I mean it makes it joyful to then be going through the joyful to then be going through the joyful to then be going through the process together but then the other process together but then the other process together but then the other thing that we're doing is lots of candid thing that we're doing is lots of candid thing that we're doing is lots of candid conversation um Talent observation and

conversation um Talent observation and conversation um Talent observation and development of you know what you're development of you know what you're development of you know what you're great at this and we need you doing more great at this and we need you doing more great at this and we need you doing more of this and you know what you're not so of this and you know what you're not so of this and you know what you're not so great at this like Let It Go we know you great at this like Let It Go we know you great at this like Let It Go we know you want to do this but you're not great at want to do this but you're not great at want to do this but you're not great at it let it go let so and so do instead so it let it go let so and so do instead so it let it go let so and so do instead so it's what's interesting to me even as I it's what's interesting to me even as I it's what's interesting to me even as I was thinking about our conversation here was thinking about our conversation here was thinking about our conversation here today is the process that we're in the today is the process that we're in the today is the process that we're in the midst of like the reality is it's what midst of like the reality is it's what midst of like the reality is it's what we as leaders should be doing all the we as leaders should be doing all the we as leaders should be doing all the time anyway oh that's good that's so time anyway oh that's good that's so time anyway oh that's good that's so true because we have a deadline you know true because we have a deadline you know true because we have a deadline you know looming out there and it's not a hard looming out there and it's not a hard looming out there and it's not a hard deadline but we we're trying to pull off deadline but we we're trying to pull off deadline but we we're trying to pull off succession we're doing this in a way succession we're doing this in a way succession we're doing this in a way more focused way than we would normally more focused way than we would normally more focused way than we would normally do it but honestly I think it's how we do it but honestly I think it's how we do it but honestly I think it's how we should function all the time as Leaders should function all the time as Leaders should function all the time as Leaders developing people around us yeah very developing people around us yeah very developing people around us yeah very cool I you know hopefully what it's cool I you know hopefully what it's cool I you know hopefully what it's doing is actually developing you know an doing is actually developing you know an doing is actually developing you know an even more robust um culture of even more robust um culture of even more robust um culture of leadership development that will go leadership development that will go leadership development that will go beyond and benefit Willow for years to beyond and benefit Willow for years to beyond and benefit Willow for years to come you know regardless of you know come you know regardless of you know come you know regardless of you know this transition will go as it will go this transition will go as it will go this transition will go as it will go and it'll be great and and then beyond and it'll be great and and then beyond and it'll be great and and then beyond that you know that just have all these that you know that just have all these that you know that just have all these new leaders talk to me about you know new leaders talk to me about you know new leaders talk to me about you know the internal versus external hiring the internal versus external hiring the internal versus external hiring acquiring of team members you know there acquiring of team members you know there acquiring of team members you know there are you know there's there's high school are you know there's there's high school are you know there's there's high school football teams and then there's football teams and then there's football teams and then there's professional football teams High School professional football teams High School professional football teams High School football team team look at the crowd football team team look at the crowd football team team look at the crowd they've got and they say how do we they've got and they say how do we they've got and they say how do we develop those people then you've got develop those people then you've got develop those people then you've got professional football teams who are like professional football teams who are like professional football teams who are like we're going to hire the best people do we're going to hire the best people do we're going to hire the best people do whatever it takes to get them here um whatever it takes to get them here um whatever it takes to get them here um you know Willow in a lot of ways H is you know Willow in a lot of ways H is you know Willow in a lot of ways H is one of those Unique Kind of name brand one of those Unique Kind of name brand one of those Unique Kind of name brand churches that could literally uh grasp

churches that could literally uh grasp churches that could literally uh grasp people from anywhere I think there's a people from anywhere I think there's a people from anywhere I think there's a lot of people out there that would be lot of people out there that would be lot of people out there that would be really interested in in working there really interested in in working there really interested in in working there but what I perceive as an outsider is but what I perceive as an outsider is but what I perceive as an outsider is Willow has a a a desire to really Willow has a a a desire to really Willow has a a a desire to really develop leaders from within even your develop leaders from within even your develop leaders from within even your own story um I think is is is amazing own story um I think is is is amazing own story um I think is is is amazing can you walk through that a little bit can you walk through that a little bit can you walk through that a little bit help us understand your thinking on help us understand your thinking on help us understand your thinking on those those those issues so us wanting to do as much as we issues so us wanting to do as much as we issues so us wanting to do as much as we can internal it's it that is based on can internal it's it that is based on can internal it's it that is based on how much we are a values-driven culture how much we are a values-driven culture how much we are a values-driven culture and just the DNA of who we are as a and just the DNA of who we are as a and just the DNA of who we are as a church so the reality is is if you were church so the reality is is if you were church so the reality is is if you were to import some certain leader coming to import some certain leader coming to import some certain leader coming into Willow it would change the DNA and into Willow it would change the DNA and into Willow it would change the DNA and the values and the culture of of Who We the values and the culture of of Who We the values and the culture of of Who We Are Are Are and honestly a lot of us there's a lot and honestly a lot of us there's a lot and honestly a lot of us there's a lot that we can grow in you know every that we can grow in you know every that we can grow in you know every family has their junk their strengths family has their junk their strengths family has their junk their strengths and their weaknesses every church has and their weaknesses every church has and their weaknesses every church has its junk we are not in any way a perfect its junk we are not in any way a perfect its junk we are not in any way a perfect place but we do believe the values of place but we do believe the values of place but we do believe the values of who we are are it's it's who God has who we are are it's it's who God has who we are are it's it's who God has made us to be and we're honestly not made us to be and we're honestly not made us to be and we're honestly not willing to let go of that yet I mean we willing to let go of that yet I mean we willing to let go of that yet I mean we want to see can can the team here can want to see can can the team here can want to see can can the team here can those who love this place so dearly can those who love this place so dearly can those who love this place so dearly can we take it into the future and if at we take it into the future and if at we take it into the future and if at some point we would say you know what some point we would say you know what some point we would say you know what we're going to have to import somebody we're going to have to import somebody we're going to have to import somebody um you know that that that very well may um you know that that that very well may um you know that that that very well may happen down the road but we all want to happen down the road but we all want to happen down the road but we all want to see what can we do to bring our best see what can we do to bring our best see what can we do to bring our best because we so much want to preserve the because we so much want to preserve the because we so much want to preserve the values of um who this church is and

values of um who this church is and values of um who this church is and again it's not that it's perfect it's again it's not that it's perfect it's again it's not that it's perfect it's not that there's right or wrongs but you not that there's right or wrongs but you not that there's right or wrongs but you just with anytime you import a leader just with anytime you import a leader just with anytime you import a leader you you get a full different um set of you you get a full different um set of you you get a full different um set of values than what are currently existing values than what are currently existing values than what are currently existing in an organization fantastic no I think in an organization fantastic no I think in an organization fantastic no I think I think that is an underestimated I think that is an underestimated I think that is an underestimated reality in in most churches that they we reality in in most churches that they we reality in in most churches that they we don't think enough about the values that don't think enough about the values that don't think enough about the values that drive and then and how our people are so drive and then and how our people are so drive and then and how our people are so critical to that culture is so important critical to that culture is so important critical to that culture is so important for us to build as uh as you know for us to build as uh as you know for us to build as uh as you know leaders in our churches now this has leaders in our churches now this has leaders in our churches now this has been a fantastic conversation anything been a fantastic conversation anything been a fantastic conversation anything else you want to share uh before we else you want to share uh before we else you want to share uh before we pivot into the rest of the pivot into the rest of the pivot into the rest of the episode you know I think really for all episode you know I think really for all episode you know I think really for all of us to the reality is is none of us of us to the reality is is none of us of us to the reality is is none of us know with the next three years five know with the next three years five know with the next three years five years how that functions within our years how that functions within our years how that functions within our roles and one of the things all of us roles and one of the things all of us roles and one of the things all of us has had have had to do as a team is has had have had to do as a team is has had have had to do as a team is basically to say you know we don't know basically to say you know we don't know basically to say you know we don't know what the future holds but we are going what the future holds but we are going what the future holds but we are going to give our best today we want to be the to give our best today we want to be the to give our best today we want to be the best leaders that we can be we want to best leaders that we can be we want to best leaders that we can be we want to develop the best culture that we can develop the best culture that we can develop the best culture that we can develop and we want to build a thriving develop and we want to build a thriving develop and we want to build a thriving church and we're going to be open-handed church and we're going to be open-handed church and we're going to be open-handed with leaving the future totally in God's with leaving the future totally in God's with leaving the future totally in God's hands and our circumstances have kind of hands and our circumstances have kind of hands and our circumstances have kind of forced us into that place but I'll tell forced us into that place but I'll tell forced us into that place but I'll tell you rich like what I'm experiencing with you rich like what I'm experiencing with you rich like what I'm experiencing with that sort of Freedom that comes from that sort of Freedom that comes from that sort of Freedom that comes from that like my hope is that I can carry that like my hope is that I can carry that like my hope is that I can carry that with me even Beyond this season that with me even Beyond this season that with me even Beyond this season just because it gives you so much just because it gives you so much just because it gives you so much freedom of I'm going to be fully freedom of I'm going to be fully freedom of I'm going to be fully invested and I'm going to totally invested and I'm going to totally invested and I'm going to totally release the results and I think we like release the results and I think we like release the results and I think we like to think I like to think that I could

to think I like to think that I could to think I like to think that I could function like that day in and day out function like that day in and day out function like that day in and day out but the reality is our circumstances but the reality is our circumstances but the reality is our circumstances push us into that right now and I'm push us into that right now and I'm push us into that right now and I'm hoping I can take just a little piece of hoping I can take just a little piece of hoping I can take just a little piece of that into the future because there's that into the future because there's that into the future because there's just something very sweet about being just something very sweet about being just something very sweet about being able to release the results this is the able to release the results this is the able to release the results this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary nice well we're going taught in seminary nice well we're going taught in seminary nice well we're going to jump into the lightning round that to jump into the lightning round that to jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask similar part of the episode where we ask similar part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everyone that's on the show questions of everyone that's on the show questions of everyone that's on the show super privileged to have Heather Larson super privileged to have Heather Larson super privileged to have Heather Larson with us today from Willow Creek uh it's with us today from Willow Creek uh it's with us today from Willow Creek uh it's been a great conversation uh today well been a great conversation uh today well been a great conversation uh today well you know Heather what's an online you know Heather what's an online you know Heather what's an online resource that you've been using uh resource that you've been using uh resource that you've been using uh that's been helping you in your that's been helping you in your that's been helping you in your ministry okay well the online resource ministry okay well the online resource ministry okay well the online resource that our entire Willow team has been that our entire Willow team has been that our entire Willow team has been using right now is called Global using right now is called Global using right now is called Global Corporate Challenge actually a fitness Corporate Challenge actually a fitness Corporate Challenge actually a fitness health challenge that we are doing and health challenge that we are doing and health challenge that we are doing and uh we kind of threw it out there as an uh we kind of threw it out there as an uh we kind of threw it out there as an encouragement to staff teams we ended up encouragement to staff teams we ended up encouragement to staff teams we ended up with 54 teams of people who are doing with 54 teams of people who are doing with 54 teams of people who are doing this all counting their steps throughout this all counting their steps throughout this all counting their steps throughout the day it helps us to monitor them and the day it helps us to monitor them and the day it helps us to monitor them and I will tell you the level of competition I will tell you the level of competition I will tell you the level of competition and team building going on around our and team building going on around our and team building going on around our church right now the number of meetings church right now the number of meetings church right now the number of meetings that are happening while people are that are happening while people are that are happening while people are walking but again trying to encourage walking but again trying to encourage walking but again trying to encourage people in their own health in uh just people in their own health in uh just people in their own health in uh just their own physical taking care of their own physical taking care of their own physical taking care of themselves as well as the joy that comes themselves as well as the joy that comes themselves as well as the joy that comes out of that so Global Corporate out of that so Global Corporate out of that so Global Corporate Challenge we're big fans right now fun I Challenge we're big fans right now fun I Challenge we're big fans right now fun I can see a lot of walking meetings now a can see a lot of walking meetings now a can see a lot of walking meetings now a lot of like hey let's go for a walk lot of like hey let's go for a walk lot of like hey let's go for a walk exact that's great exactly what's a book exact that's great exactly what's a book exact that's great exactly what's a book you've read in the last I don't know you've read in the last I don't know you've read in the last I don't know maybe six months to a year that's had an maybe six months to a year that's had an maybe six months to a year that's had an impact on your thinking or impact on your thinking or impact on your thinking or Ministry yeah you know uh for me uh Dr

Ministry yeah you know uh for me uh Dr Ministry yeah you know uh for me uh Dr Henry Cloud's book uh the power of the Henry Cloud's book uh the power of the Henry Cloud's book uh the power of the other is an extremely powerful resource other is an extremely powerful resource other is an extremely powerful resource I think you know we are big fans of I think you know we are big fans of I think you know we are big fans of Henry he's had a huge influence on me Henry he's had a huge influence on me Henry he's had a huge influence on me personally and this book especially as personally and this book especially as personally and this book especially as he's talking about how important it is he's talking about how important it is he's talking about how important it is in uh how we engage with other people in uh how we engage with other people in uh how we engage with other people and the influence and impact that they and the influence and impact that they and the influence and impact that they have on us and how we communicate with have on us and how we communicate with have on us and how we communicate with them how we connect with them deeply how them how we connect with them deeply how them how we connect with them deeply how that affects our influence and our trust that affects our influence and our trust that affects our influence and our trust I mean it is a great resource so it's I mean it is a great resource so it's I mean it is a great resource so it's fantastic nice well I look forward to fantastic nice well I look forward to fantastic nice well I look forward to the answer to this next question a lot the answer to this next question a lot the answer to this next question a lot of people look to will Creek as an of people look to will Creek as an of people look to will Creek as an inspiration so who do you look to who inspiration so who do you look to who inspiration so who do you look to who inspires you these days yeah so I inspires you these days yeah so I inspires you these days yeah so I actually three years ago when I stepped actually three years ago when I stepped actually three years ago when I stepped into this role I got invited to be part into this role I got invited to be part into this role I got invited to be part of an executive Pastor Gathering that is of an executive Pastor Gathering that is of an executive Pastor Gathering that is um it's really a relatively very small um it's really a relatively very small um it's really a relatively very small group of executive pastors of group of executive pastors of group of executive pastors of influential churches around the country influential churches around the country influential churches around the country and when I first showed up um at that and when I first showed up um at that and when I first showed up um at that meeting uh you know I was the only meeting uh you know I was the only meeting uh you know I was the only female executive Pastor around the room female executive Pastor around the room female executive Pastor around the room and really those those men who have been and really those those men who have been and really those those men who have been in that role many of them for way longer in that role many of them for way longer in that role many of them for way longer than I have been very pre seasoned uh in than I have been very pre seasoned uh in than I have been very pre seasoned uh in churches that have similar or even more churches that have similar or even more churches that have similar or even more influence in some ways uh than Willow influence in some ways uh than Willow influence in some ways uh than Willow and those men really being totally open and those men really being totally open and those men really being totally open to questions engaging they've been a to questions engaging they've been a to questions engaging they've been a huge support whenever I've got questions huge support whenever I've got questions huge support whenever I've got questions of how something's going uh there are of how something's going uh there are of how something's going uh there are certain people around this country that certain people around this country that certain people around this country that I call first right away and to be able I call first right away and to be able I call first right away and to be able to have kind of a cohort of people that

to have kind of a cohort of people that to have kind of a cohort of people that were learning encouraging each other so were learning encouraging each other so were learning encouraging each other so I I go to that group in those churches I I go to that group in those churches I I go to that group in those churches around the country very cool uh if you around the country very cool uh if you around the country very cool uh if you could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would that be with and why alive who would that be with and why alive who would that be with and why yeah so when the first person that pops yeah so when the first person that pops yeah so when the first person that pops into my head is Angela Merkel I'm just into my head is Angela Merkel I'm just into my head is Angela Merkel I'm just I'm fascinated by um how she's doing in I'm fascinated by um how she's doing in I'm fascinated by um how she's doing in leading Germany and the Dynamics going leading Germany and the Dynamics going leading Germany and the Dynamics going on there especially around the refugee on there especially around the refugee on there especially around the refugee crisis you know she took some very bold crisis you know she took some very bold crisis you know she took some very bold moves and then got a ton of slack on the moves and then got a ton of slack on the moves and then got a ton of slack on the backside of that and I would just love backside of that and I would just love backside of that and I would just love to hear what she's learning and what are to hear what she's learning and what are to hear what she's learning and what are things that she would have done things that she would have done things that she would have done differently how would she have managed differently how would she have managed differently how would she have managed that change process and how she'd like that change process and how she'd like that change process and how she'd like to handle it moving forward I would love to handle it moving forward I would love to handle it moving forward I would love to have that conversation with her nice to have that conversation with her nice to have that conversation with her nice very cool well I'm sure uh being very cool well I'm sure uh being very cool well I'm sure uh being executive Pastor where you are is a lot executive Pastor where you are is a lot executive Pastor where you are is a lot of work what do you do to just kick back of work what do you do to just kick back of work what do you do to just kick back relax you know have some relax you know have some relax you know have some fun yeah I love hanging out with my fun yeah I love hanging out with my fun yeah I love hanging out with my family uh I've got two girls uh they're family uh I've got two girls uh they're family uh I've got two girls uh they're 10 and 12 uh my husband and I we love 10 and 12 uh my husband and I we love 10 and 12 uh my husband and I we love traveling taking our family on new traveling taking our family on new traveling taking our family on new adventures together um and I love adventures together um and I love adventures together um and I love spending tons of time outside you in spending tons of time outside you in spending tons of time outside you in Chicago we only get like you know six Chicago we only get like you know six Chicago we only get like you know six months of a year that it's great to be months of a year that it's great to be months of a year that it's great to be outside we're outside every six days you outside we're outside every six days you outside we're outside every six days you know something like that right something know something like that right something know something like that right something like that's great so but for me like that's great so but for me like that's great so but for me personally I I love getting my hands in personally I I love getting my hands in personally I I love getting my hands in the dirt and gardening I do that for the dirt and gardening I do that for the dirt and gardening I do that for kind of my own replenishment I play the kind of my own replenishment I play the kind of my own replenishment I play the OBO of all things it's helps me just OBO of all things it's helps me just OBO of all things it's helps me just kind of get my um you know my kind of get my um you know my kind of get my um you know my personality I'm just wired to move

personality I'm just wired to move personality I'm just wired to move pretty quickly and things like gardening pretty quickly and things like gardening pretty quickly and things like gardening and yoga and playing the OBO just helped and yoga and playing the OBO just helped and yoga and playing the OBO just helped me still my mind my heart a little bit me still my mind my heart a little bit me still my mind my heart a little bit um and slow down the pace of my life um and slow down the pace of my life um and slow down the pace of my life which is just really good for me very which is just really good for me very which is just really good for me very cool well Heather I really appreciate cool well Heather I really appreciate cool well Heather I really appreciate you being on the show today um if people you being on the show today um if people you being on the show today um if people want to get in touch with you or with want to get in touch with you or with want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that yeah the the church how can they do that yeah the the church how can they do that yeah the best way to do that uh is through social best way to do that uh is through social best way to do that uh is through social media so uh me following me on Twitter media so uh me following me on Twitter media so uh me following me on Twitter um is a great way to do that or just uh um is a great way to do that or just uh um is a great way to do that or just uh emailing uh the general email at the emailing uh the general email at the emailing uh the general email at the church as well perfect well thanks so church as well perfect well thanks so church as well perfect well thanks so much Heather I appreciate you be on the much Heather I appreciate you be on the much Heather I appreciate you be on the show today great thank you so much Rich show today great thank you so much Rich show today great thank you so much Rich have a great day thank you for tuning in have a great day thank you for tuning in have a great day thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't to this week's unseminary podcast don't to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out be shy we'd love to connect check out be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary docomo every week plus you'll gain docomo every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary tcom don't forget to check unseminary tcom don't forget to check unseminary tcom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unseminary what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks by iTunes and leave a review Thanks by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast join us next week unseminary podcast join us next week unseminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in taught in taught in seminary