Strong, Strained or Stuck: How Executive Pastors Can Build Trust in 2026 with Jeremy Peterson

regardless of whether you've worked with regardless of whether you've worked with your lead senior pastor um for the last your lead senior pastor um for the last your lead senior pastor um for the last couple months or the last 10 years. Um couple months or the last 10 years. Um couple months or the last 10 years. Um something that I has really changed my something that I has really changed my something that I has really changed my heart and my perspective and I think has heart and my perspective and I think has heart and my perspective and I think has really helped grow the relationship is really helped grow the relationship is really helped grow the relationship is um is just daily be in prayer for him or um is just daily be in prayer for him or um is just daily be in prayer for him or her. >> Growth pressure, staffing questions, >> Growth pressure, staffing questions, facility decisions, and the emotional facility decisions, and the emotional facility decisions, and the emotional weight of leading teams. That's the weight of leading teams. That's the weight of leading teams. That's the world executive pastors are navigating world executive pastors are navigating world executive pastors are navigating right now. Today on the Unseminary right now. Today on the Unseminary right now. Today on the Unseminary Podcast, we're sitting down with an Podcast, we're sitting down with an Podcast, we're sitting down with an executive pastor from a prevailing executive pastor from a prevailing executive pastor from a prevailing church to unpack what leaders like you church to unpack what leaders like you church to unpack what leaders like you shared in the National Executive Pastor shared in the National Executive Pastor shared in the National Executive Pastor Survey so you can lead forward with Survey so you can lead forward with Survey so you can lead forward with clarity. >> Hey friends, welcome to the Unseminary >> Hey friends, welcome to the Unseminary podcast. We are in the middle of these podcast. We are in the middle of these podcast. We are in the middle of these uh special episodes we've been doing uh special episodes we've been doing uh special episodes we've been doing where we're reflecting back on what you where we're reflecting back on what you where we're reflecting back on what you said in the national executive pastor said in the national executive pastor said in the national executive pastor survey and what we're doing is bringing survey and what we're doing is bringing survey and what we're doing is bringing executive pastors uh from prevailing executive pastors uh from prevailing executive pastors uh from prevailing churches on to really help us wrestle churches on to really help us wrestle churches on to really help us wrestle through some of the things that we saw through some of the things that we saw through some of the things that we saw and ultimately to provide some help for and ultimately to provide some help for and ultimately to provide some help for you as you launch here into 2026. Today you as you launch here into 2026. Today you as you launch here into 2026. Today it's our privilege to have the executive it's our privilege to have the executive it's our privilege to have the executive pastor of all executive pastors, Jeremy pastor of all executive pastors, Jeremy pastor of all executive pastors, Jeremy Peterson with us uh from uh one church.

Peterson with us uh from uh one church. Peterson with us uh from uh one church. It's a fantastic church, a multi-sight It's a fantastic church, a multi-sight It's a fantastic church, a multi-sight church in northeastern uh United States. church in northeastern uh United States. church in northeastern uh United States. They have five, if I'm counting They have five, if I'm counting They have five, if I'm counting correctly, outpost locations in New correctly, outpost locations in New correctly, outpost locations in New Hampshire, plus church online. Uh plus Hampshire, plus church online. Uh plus Hampshire, plus church online. Uh plus Jeremy's involved in a and leading XPS, Jeremy's involved in a and leading XPS, Jeremy's involved in a and leading XPS, a great conference for executive pastors a great conference for executive pastors a great conference for executive pastors and and or and campus pastors, and he and and or and campus pastors, and he and and or and campus pastors, and he does all kinds of amazing stuff. So does all kinds of amazing stuff. So does all kinds of amazing stuff. So Jeremy, welcome to the show. So glad Jeremy, welcome to the show. So glad Jeremy, welcome to the show. So glad you're here. It's quite the you're here. It's quite the you're here. It's quite the introduction. Thanks, Rich, for having introduction. Thanks, Rich, for having introduction. Thanks, Rich, for having me. me. me. >> Yeah, this is the problem. You become a >> Yeah, this is the problem. You become a >> Yeah, this is the problem. You become a you become a more than one time guest you become a more than one time guest you become a more than one time guest and I'm like, what do I say? He's and I'm like, what do I say? He's and I'm like, what do I say? He's amazing. That's what you should say. amazing. That's what you should say. amazing. That's what you should say. Tell us a little bit about One Church. Tell us a little bit about One Church. Tell us a little bit about One Church. Did you get to set the context for Did you get to set the context for Did you get to set the context for people understand a little bit what your people understand a little bit what your people understand a little bit what your background, where you're at? background, where you're at? background, where you're at? >> Yeah. So, I spent the first 17 years of >> Yeah. So, I spent the first 17 years of >> Yeah. So, I spent the first 17 years of ministry in Texas, and I've been here ministry in Texas, and I've been here ministry in Texas, and I've been here for 12 and a half years now, and it's for 12 and a half years now, and it's for 12 and a half years now, and it's it's pretty wild. Um, I said I would it's pretty wild. Um, I said I would it's pretty wild. Um, I said I would never be on the mission field. I grew up never be on the mission field. I grew up never be on the mission field. I grew up as a missionary kid and so uh being here as a missionary kid and so uh being here as a missionary kid and so uh being here I really feel like I am on the mission I really feel like I am on the mission I really feel like I am on the mission field. Um been here 12 and a half years field. Um been here 12 and a half years field. Um been here 12 and a half years and we just celebrated like our 4,000th and we just celebrated like our 4,000th and we just celebrated like our 4,000th person that's been baptized um since person that's been baptized um since person that's been baptized um since I've been here. And so it's just it's I've been here. And so it's just it's I've been here. And so it's just it's just been quite the ride um being a part just been quite the ride um being a part just been quite the ride um being a part of what God's doing and just trying not of what God's doing and just trying not of what God's doing and just trying not to mess it up.

to mess it up. to mess it up. >> Yeah, it's so good. Um well, this thing >> Yeah, it's so good. Um well, this thing >> Yeah, it's so good. Um well, this thing we're looking at today to kind of kick we're looking at today to kind of kick we're looking at today to kind of kick the conversation off, there was a a stat the conversation off, there was a a stat the conversation off, there was a a stat that jumped out to me from our study. that jumped out to me from our study. that jumped out to me from our study. 22.32% 22.32% 22.32% of executive pastors, that's just over of executive pastors, that's just over of executive pastors, that's just over one in five, are either uncertain or one in five, are either uncertain or one in five, are either uncertain or experiencing strain with their lead experiencing strain with their lead experiencing strain with their lead pastor. Uh, now I know that that's a pastor. Uh, now I know that that's a pastor. Uh, now I know that that's a minority number. It's not like twothirds minority number. It's not like twothirds minority number. It's not like twothirds are like struggling with this. It's it's are like struggling with this. It's it's are like struggling with this. It's it's it's just over one in five, but to me, it's just over one in five, but to me, it's just over one in five, but to me, that's still a a hauntingly large number that's still a a hauntingly large number that's still a a hauntingly large number that one in five executive pastors we that one in five executive pastors we that one in five executive pastors we would bump into would say, I'm not sure would bump into would say, I'm not sure would bump into would say, I'm not sure that that relationship is working well. that that relationship is working well. that that relationship is working well. So, I'd love to start the conversation So, I'd love to start the conversation So, I'd love to start the conversation there. Why do you think the lead pastor there. Why do you think the lead pastor there. Why do you think the lead pastor and executive pastor relationship, why and executive pastor relationship, why and executive pastor relationship, why is there kind of tension there? Why is there kind of tension there? Why is there kind of tension there? Why would people be experiencing that? And would people be experiencing that? And would people be experiencing that? And and personally, I think, man, that and personally, I think, man, that and personally, I think, man, that relationship's got to be strong for the relationship's got to be strong for the relationship's got to be strong for the the health of the church, but help us the health of the church, but help us the health of the church, but help us understand maybe set the problem up for understand maybe set the problem up for understand maybe set the problem up for us. What what do you think is going on us. What what do you think is going on us. What what do you think is going on there when that relationship is there when that relationship is there when that relationship is strained? Yeah, it's interesting stat uh strained? Yeah, it's interesting stat uh strained? Yeah, it's interesting stat uh Rich because talking to a lot of Rich because talking to a lot of Rich because talking to a lot of executive pastors around the country executive pastors around the country executive pastors around the country like you do, I feel like that number may like you do, I feel like that number may like you do, I feel like that number may even be um a little bit higher. I think even be um a little bit higher. I think even be um a little bit higher. I think surveys are incredibly helpful, but I surveys are incredibly helpful, but I surveys are incredibly helpful, but I feel like one of the biggest challenges feel like one of the biggest challenges feel like one of the biggest challenges or conversations that I'm having on a or conversations that I'm having on a or conversations that I'm having on a regular basis with other executive regular basis with other executive regular basis with other executive pastors is I'm not sure the lead pastor pastors is I'm not sure the lead pastor pastors is I'm not sure the lead pastor trusts me. Um sometimes it's like I'm trusts me. Um sometimes it's like I'm trusts me. Um sometimes it's like I'm not sure that I trust my lead pastor.

not sure that I trust my lead pastor. not sure that I trust my lead pastor. And so I think there's definitely a And so I think there's definitely a And so I think there's definitely a tension which I think it's there there tension which I think it's there there tension which I think it's there there are two roles that are so incredibly are two roles that are so incredibly are two roles that are so incredibly crucial for the church, right? You have crucial for the church, right? You have crucial for the church, right? You have either the cedar senior or lead pastor either the cedar senior or lead pastor either the cedar senior or lead pastor um who's really the one casting the um who's really the one casting the um who's really the one casting the vision and you've got the executive vision and you've got the executive vision and you've got the executive pastor in that second role or that pastor in that second role or that pastor in that second role or that second chair that's really called to second chair that's really called to second chair that's really called to like help execute on the vision. And like help execute on the vision. And like help execute on the vision. And when there's like trust or mistrust, when there's like trust or mistrust, when there's like trust or mistrust, lack of trust, whatever it may be, um lack of trust, whatever it may be, um lack of trust, whatever it may be, um that can cause a lot of I think tension that can cause a lot of I think tension that can cause a lot of I think tension and frustration um if it's not if it's and frustration um if it's not if it's and frustration um if it's not if it's not addressed in some capacity. not addressed in some capacity. not addressed in some capacity. >> Yeah, it's and I do get these calls as >> Yeah, it's and I do get these calls as >> Yeah, it's and I do get these calls as well. I I sometimes what happens is I'll well. I I sometimes what happens is I'll well. I I sometimes what happens is I'll I'll be talking to an executive pastor, I'll be talking to an executive pastor, I'll be talking to an executive pastor, maybe I'm on site and they'll pull me maybe I'm on site and they'll pull me maybe I'm on site and they'll pull me aside and they'll say, you know, I just aside and they'll say, you know, I just aside and they'll say, you know, I just love my lead pastor. So fantastic. love my lead pastor. So fantastic. love my lead pastor. So fantastic. They're an amazing vision castor. They They're an amazing vision castor. They They're an amazing vision castor. They do such a great job. And then they they do such a great job. And then they they do such a great job. And then they they rattle off all this real positive stuff. rattle off all this real positive stuff. rattle off all this real positive stuff. And then they'll say, "But can you help And then they'll say, "But can you help And then they'll say, "But can you help me get better at this relationship? How me get better at this relationship? How me get better at this relationship? How do I or it'll be a lead pastor will pull do I or it'll be a lead pastor will pull do I or it'll be a lead pastor will pull me aside and say, "Oh, I just I love the me aside and say, "Oh, I just I love the me aside and say, "Oh, I just I love the executive pastor here." And they'll same executive pastor here." And they'll same executive pastor here." And they'll same thing rattle off. That person's so good thing rattle off. That person's so good thing rattle off. That person's so good at getting stuff done and they manage at getting stuff done and they manage at getting stuff done and they manage the team so well and never worry about the team so well and never worry about the team so well and never worry about money stuff and and then there's a butt.

money stuff and and then there's a butt. money stuff and and then there's a butt. But could you help me get better at that But could you help me get better at that But could you help me get better at that relationship? Like I it's like we're relationship? Like I it's like we're relationship? Like I it's like we're struggling around this. What would be struggling around this. What would be struggling around this. What would be some early signs in conversations that some early signs in conversations that some early signs in conversations that you're having that maybe there's the you're having that maybe there's the you're having that maybe there's the trust is starting to erode a bit that trust is starting to erode a bit that trust is starting to erode a bit that it's drifting towards this kind of oo it's drifting towards this kind of oo it's drifting towards this kind of oo this is things are not in a good place. this is things are not in a good place. this is things are not in a good place. What are some of the telltale signs in What are some of the telltale signs in What are some of the telltale signs in those conversations that you see oo we those conversations that you see oo we those conversations that you see oo we maybe have a trust problem here? maybe have a trust problem here? maybe have a trust problem here? >> Yeah trust is really interesting because >> Yeah trust is really interesting because >> Yeah trust is really interesting because I feel like um really time builds trust. I feel like um really time builds trust. I feel like um really time builds trust. I mean, I I feel like I'm I usually kind I mean, I I feel like I'm I usually kind I mean, I I feel like I'm I usually kind of air on the side of like, hey, I'll of air on the side of like, hey, I'll of air on the side of like, hey, I'll trust you um until you until you cause trust you um until you until you cause trust you um until you until you cause reasons to bring like um untrust or reasons to bring like um untrust or reasons to bring like um untrust or whatever that may be or break the trust whatever that may be or break the trust whatever that may be or break the trust because because because >> it takes I feel like time um time is >> it takes I feel like time um time is >> it takes I feel like time um time is what really builds on trust, but it's what really builds on trust, but it's what really builds on trust, but it's something that can be also lost something that can be also lost something that can be also lost overnight. And so, um I think a few overnight. And so, um I think a few overnight. And so, um I think a few things that I've noticed over the years things that I've noticed over the years things that I've noticed over the years um as trust begins to erode, I think um as trust begins to erode, I think um as trust begins to erode, I think there's a few things that I would um there's a few things that I would um there's a few things that I would um that I would hit on. I think um a few of that I would hit on. I think um a few of that I would hit on. I think um a few of them is just is being consistent. So them is just is being consistent. So them is just is being consistent. So like as an executive pastor, are you like as an executive pastor, are you like as an executive pastor, are you like are you reliable? Are you are you like are you reliable? Are you are you like are you reliable? Are you are you dependable? Um are you doing what you dependable? Um are you doing what you dependable? Um are you doing what you say you're going to do? Um are you say you're going to do? Um are you say you're going to do? Um are you coming in with like a calm calm spirit?

coming in with like a calm calm spirit? coming in with like a calm calm spirit? Um sometimes senior pastors or lead Um sometimes senior pastors or lead Um sometimes senior pastors or lead pastors can be all over the place. They pastors can be all over the place. They pastors can be all over the place. They can be upset or frustrated. And if you can be upset or frustrated. And if you can be upset or frustrated. And if you kind of come in as like the as the kind of come in as like the as the kind of come in as like the as the constant like in the midst of a storm constant like in the midst of a storm constant like in the midst of a storm and you can kind of calm that down a and you can kind of calm that down a and you can kind of calm that down a little bit, I think that that's that's little bit, I think that that's that's little bit, I think that that's that's really helpful. Um, I think a big part really helpful. Um, I think a big part really helpful. Um, I think a big part of it is just is being truthful. So like of it is just is being truthful. So like of it is just is being truthful. So like in the consistency, are you being in the consistency, are you being in the consistency, are you being truthful? Because a senior pastor needs truthful? Because a senior pastor needs truthful? Because a senior pastor needs somebody who can speak the truth into somebody who can speak the truth into somebody who can speak the truth into them. Most of most staff, even other um them. Most of most staff, even other um them. Most of most staff, even other um I think a lot of senior pastors, they're I think a lot of senior pastors, they're I think a lot of senior pastors, they're just not very trusting people by nature. just not very trusting people by nature. just not very trusting people by nature. And so I think when you have somebody And so I think when you have somebody And so I think when you have somebody who can speak truth into you, I think it who can speak truth into you, I think it who can speak truth into you, I think it actually starts developing and growing actually starts developing and growing actually starts developing and growing um the trust. I feel like if you're at um the trust. I feel like if you're at um the trust. I feel like if you're at the same time I feel like if you're the same time I feel like if you're the same time I feel like if you're holding back all the truth I feel like holding back all the truth I feel like holding back all the truth I feel like like trust starts eroding over time if like trust starts eroding over time if like trust starts eroding over time if you're holding back some of the truth. you're holding back some of the truth. you're holding back some of the truth. So take something like um weekly So take something like um weekly So take something like um weekly attendance right senior pastors lead attendance right senior pastors lead attendance right senior pastors lead pastors really really care about sen pastors really really care about sen pastors really really care about sen like about attendance but if you are not like about attendance but if you are not like about attendance but if you are not being like fully truthful or transparent being like fully truthful or transparent being like fully truthful or transparent little by little if you start holding little by little if you start holding little by little if you start holding some of the information the information some of the information the information some of the information the information is going to come out in some capacity is going to come out in some capacity is going to come out in some capacity >> and so I think if you start holding on >> and so I think if you start holding on >> and so I think if you start holding on to that that can start breaking or even to that that can start breaking or even to that that can start breaking or even eroding the trust um over time so I eroding the trust um over time so I eroding the trust um over time so I think that consistency is a is a huge think that consistency is a is a huge think that consistency is a is a huge thing I think another part of it is thing I think another part of it is thing I think another part of it is >> Oh go ahead yeah >> Oh go ahead yeah >> Oh go ahead yeah >> no no I was just going to say it's >> no no I was just going to say it's >> no no I was just going to say it's amazing Amazing how what was that poem amazing Amazing how what was that poem amazing Amazing how what was that poem like? Everything I learned about life I like? Everything I learned about life I like? Everything I learned about life I learned in kindergarten. It's amazing learned in kindergarten. It's amazing learned in kindergarten. It's amazing though how much the just the core idea though how much the just the core idea though how much the just the core idea of like do what you say do what you said

of like do what you say do what you said of like do what you say do what you said you were going to do. Like it's but it's you were going to do. Like it's but it's you were going to do. Like it's but it's amazing how for some leaders we they amazing how for some leaders we they amazing how for some leaders we they seem to struggle with that that it's seem to struggle with that that it's seem to struggle with that that it's like you said you were going to do this like you said you were going to do this like you said you were going to do this like why did you not do it? It's like why did you not do it? It's like why did you not do it? It's incredible. What else were you gonna say incredible. What else were you gonna say incredible. What else were you gonna say there? there? there? >> Oh yeah the other thing I was just gonna >> Oh yeah the other thing I was just gonna >> Oh yeah the other thing I was just gonna add is I think clarity is so crucial. Um add is I think clarity is so crucial. Um add is I think clarity is so crucial. Um you've been an executive pastor. I think you've been an executive pastor. I think you've been an executive pastor. I think sometimes we go into this like sometimes we go into this like sometimes we go into this like problem-solving mode and we're problem-solving mode and we're problem-solving mode and we're constantly trying to think of like how constantly trying to think of like how constantly trying to think of like how do we solve this problem? How do we how do we solve this problem? How do we how do we solve this problem? How do we how do we get in front of it? And so a lot do we get in front of it? And so a lot do we get in front of it? And so a lot of times we don't even have clarity of times we don't even have clarity of times we don't even have clarity >> even necessarily around what the senior >> even necessarily around what the senior >> even necessarily around what the senior pastor or lead pastor are trying to pastor or lead pastor are trying to pastor or lead pastor are trying to accomplish. And we've already gone into accomplish. And we've already gone into accomplish. And we've already gone into like fix it mode before even we even like fix it mode before even we even like fix it mode before even we even have a full picture of like what's have a full picture of like what's have a full picture of like what's trying to be accomplished. And if you're trying to be accomplished. And if you're trying to be accomplished. And if you're not constantly like syncing up in some not constantly like syncing up in some not constantly like syncing up in some capacity with a senior pastor, I think capacity with a senior pastor, I think capacity with a senior pastor, I think that that's where some of the trust can that that's where some of the trust can that that's where some of the trust can break over time. So like I have a break over time. So like I have a break over time. So like I have a standing lunch every single Monday standing lunch every single Monday standing lunch every single Monday regardless of what's going on unless regardless of what's going on unless regardless of what's going on unless we're on vacation. Um we get together we're on vacation. Um we get together we're on vacation. Um we get together and we sync up every single Monday to and we sync up every single Monday to and we sync up every single Monday to have a conversation. And I remember have a conversation. And I remember have a conversation. And I remember initially it was like well I don't know initially it was like well I don't know initially it was like well I don't know that I can commit to a you know weekly that I can commit to a you know weekly that I can commit to a you know weekly uh lunchtime and doing this. And so uh lunchtime and doing this. And so uh lunchtime and doing this. And so unless there's some random exception for unless there's some random exception for unless there's some random exception for us, Mondays is really that chance to be us, Mondays is really that chance to be us, Mondays is really that chance to be able to sync up, make sure that we're on able to sync up, make sure that we're on able to sync up, make sure that we're on the same page. Um and and I think really the same page. Um and and I think really the same page. Um and and I think really in that time kind of not only here like in that time kind of not only here like in that time kind of not only here like what's God placed on your heart, but but what's God placed on your heart, but but what's God placed on your heart, but but um building camaraderie. So like and by um building camaraderie. So like and by um building camaraderie. So like and by camaraderie I don't I don't feel like in camaraderie I don't I don't feel like in camaraderie I don't I don't feel like in any sense like you as an executive any sense like you as an executive any sense like you as an executive pastor and lead pastor need to be best pastor and lead pastor need to be best pastor and lead pastor need to be best friends but I feel like having some kind friends but I feel like having some kind friends but I feel like having some kind of common interest where you can you can

of common interest where you can you can of common interest where you can you can spend some time together you can have spend some time together you can have spend some time together you can have conversations that are not just conversations that are not just conversations that are not just workrelated um but a lot of it's also workrelated um but a lot of it's also workrelated um but a lot of it's also about like hey what's going on in your about like hey what's going on in your about like hey what's going on in your life like what's happening not just here life like what's happening not just here life like what's happening not just here at the church but what's happening in at the church but what's happening in at the church but what's happening in your own life what's going on like like your own life what's going on like like your own life what's going on like like being aware of those things I think the being aware of those things I think the being aware of those things I think the more you can have those conversations more you can have those conversations more you can have those conversations it's not just all about work all the it's not just all about work all the it's not just all about work all the time. I think that that helps build time. I think that that helps build time. I think that that helps build trust, builds that relationship um with trust, builds that relationship um with trust, builds that relationship um with your senior lead pastor as well. your senior lead pastor as well. your senior lead pastor as well. >> Yeah. I'd love to come back to that that >> Yeah. I'd love to come back to that that >> Yeah. I'd love to come back to that that kind of friendship co-worker kind of friendship co-worker kind of friendship co-worker relationship thing there, but you said relationship thing there, but you said relationship thing there, but you said something earlier that caught my something earlier that caught my something earlier that caught my attention, this idea of a standing lunch attention, this idea of a standing lunch attention, this idea of a standing lunch on Mondays. Are there any other on Mondays. Are there any other on Mondays. Are there any other >> um in your relationship with Boa? Part >> um in your relationship with Boa? Part >> um in your relationship with Boa? Part of why I was excited to talk to you of why I was excited to talk to you of why I was excited to talk to you about this is as an outsider, I perceive about this is as an outsider, I perceive about this is as an outsider, I perceive you guys are like those guys seem to you guys are like those guys seem to you guys are like those guys seem to like working with each other. They're like working with each other. They're like working with each other. They're like the fact that you've been there for like the fact that you've been there for like the fact that you've been there for 12 years and you continue to be there is 12 years and you continue to be there is 12 years and you continue to be there is a sign of that and vice versa. He a sign of that and vice versa. He a sign of that and vice versa. He continues to love working with you and continues to love working with you and continues to love working with you and it's a prevailing church. You guys are it's a prevailing church. You guys are it's a prevailing church. You guys are taking new ground. Uh Mondays, taking new ground. Uh Mondays, taking new ground. Uh Mondays, lunchtime, that's a core behavior lunchtime, that's a core behavior lunchtime, that's a core behavior practice, intentional practice. Are practice, intentional practice. Are practice, intentional practice. Are there other things that you're doing as there other things that you're doing as there other things that you're doing as you think about engaging with him in a you think about engaging with him in a you think about engaging with him in a way that build trust or build that way that build trust or build that way that build trust or build that relationship?

relationship? relationship? >> That's a great question. So, I think two >> That's a great question. So, I think two >> That's a great question. So, I think two things is I will constantly drop into things is I will constantly drop into things is I will constantly drop into his office and have a five minute his office and have a five minute his office and have a five minute conversation or make a five minute phone conversation or make a five minute phone conversation or make a five minute phone call. I've realized that over the years call. I've realized that over the years call. I've realized that over the years how much time and probably pain I could how much time and probably pain I could how much time and probably pain I could have spared both of us had we just have spared both of us had we just have spared both of us had we just dropped in and had those conversations. dropped in and had those conversations. dropped in and had those conversations. And so kind of a a best practice that we And so kind of a a best practice that we And so kind of a a best practice that we would have now is like, hey, pick up the would have now is like, hey, pick up the would have now is like, hey, pick up the the phone and let's have a five minute the phone and let's have a five minute the phone and let's have a five minute conversation instead of like potentially conversation instead of like potentially conversation instead of like potentially hours on the back end of things that we hours on the back end of things that we hours on the back end of things that we may have to undo or repair. Um just may have to undo or repair. Um just may have to undo or repair. Um just because you know you may have had a because you know you may have had a because you know you may have had a question, doubt, frustration, whatever question, doubt, frustration, whatever question, doubt, frustration, whatever it may have been. like just go ahead and it may have been. like just go ahead and it may have been. like just go ahead and voice those things and let's have those voice those things and let's have those voice those things and let's have those conversations and then let's move on uh conversations and then let's move on uh conversations and then let's move on uh versus like dwelling on it because I versus like dwelling on it because I versus like dwelling on it because I think that's where the enemy does a think that's where the enemy does a think that's where the enemy does a really good job really good job really good job >> getting a foothold and it's like hey if >> getting a foothold and it's like hey if >> getting a foothold and it's like hey if I can just create a little little doubt I can just create a little little doubt I can just create a little little doubt or a little dissension here um then I or a little dissension here um then I or a little dissension here um then I can help break away and erode that can help break away and erode that can help break away and erode that trust. trust. trust. >> Yeah, that's good. Can you give me an >> Yeah, that's good. Can you give me an >> Yeah, that's good. Can you give me an example that's maybe not too close to example that's maybe not too close to example that's maybe not too close to home of what one of those five minute home of what one of those five minute home of what one of those five minute things would be because I think that's a things would be because I think that's a things would be because I think that's a good insight that like hey I should just good insight that like hey I should just good insight that like hey I should just like pick up the phone or drop by and like pick up the phone or drop by and like pick up the phone or drop by and like hey here's something either I heard like hey here's something either I heard like hey here's something either I heard I can I can see that or I've thought of I can I can see that or I've thought of I can I can see that or I've thought of a similar thing around um like I see a similar thing around um like I see a similar thing around um like I see something that's getting going and I'm something that's getting going and I'm something that's getting going and I'm like I could wait to meet with the like I could wait to meet with the like I could wait to meet with the executive team and everybody or like but executive team and everybody or like but executive team and everybody or like but I really should just get my lead I really should just get my lead I really should just get my lead pastor's thoughts on where his head's at pastor's thoughts on where his head's at pastor's thoughts on where his head's at on this issue because if this thing gets on this issue because if this thing gets on this issue because if this thing gets too far down the road you know we could too far down the road you know we could too far down the road you know we could be causing paying. What would be some be causing paying. What would be some be causing paying. What would be some examples of the kind of things that you examples of the kind of things that you examples of the kind of things that you think those kind of fiveminute dropins think those kind of fiveminute dropins think those kind of fiveminute dropins are helpful with?

are helpful with? are helpful with? >> Yeah, I mean something as simple as u we >> Yeah, I mean something as simple as u we >> Yeah, I mean something as simple as u we were we had one of our locations was were we had one of our locations was were we had one of our locations was going from two services to three going from two services to three going from two services to three services. And so I had a conversation uh services. And so I had a conversation uh services. And so I had a conversation uh with the outpost pastor and we started with the outpost pastor and we started with the outpost pastor and we started talking through what those things are talking through what those things are talking through what those things are and we're like, "Yeah, these three times and we're like, "Yeah, these three times and we're like, "Yeah, these three times make sense." And we just kind of ran make sense." And we just kind of ran make sense." And we just kind of ran with it. with it. with it. >> And so in retrospect, you know, we we >> And so in retrospect, you know, we we >> And so in retrospect, you know, we we start going to print. So, we get to the start going to print. So, we get to the start going to print. So, we get to the point where it's like going on the point where it's like going on the point where it's like going on the website, it's going to print. And and he website, it's going to print. And and he website, it's going to print. And and he asked me, he's like, "What are these asked me, he's like, "What are these asked me, he's like, "What are these what are these times? Like, why why did what are these times? Like, why why did what are these times? Like, why why did we land on these times?" And so, it was we land on these times?" And so, it was we land on these times?" And so, it was realizing that sometimes it's those realizing that sometimes it's those realizing that sometimes it's those simple things, but if you can constantly simple things, but if you can constantly simple things, but if you can constantly be dropping in, shoot a text, have a be dropping in, shoot a text, have a be dropping in, shoot a text, have a quick conversation, like the amount of quick conversation, like the amount of quick conversation, like the amount of things that we had to undo to fix things that we had to undo to fix things that we had to undo to fix something like that um something like that um something like that um >> was big. Another thing that that he's >> was big. Another thing that that he's >> was big. Another thing that that he's he's shifted a lot now, but early on it he's shifted a lot now, but early on it he's shifted a lot now, but early on it would not be uncommon for say one of our would not be uncommon for say one of our would not be uncommon for say one of our um student pastors to go up to him and um student pastors to go up to him and um student pastors to go up to him and say like, "Hey, I know you did student say like, "Hey, I know you did student say like, "Hey, I know you did student ministry back in the day. I'm thinking ministry back in the day. I'm thinking ministry back in the day. I'm thinking about doing this." And he would be like, about doing this." And he would be like, about doing this." And he would be like, "That sounds like a great idea. Just go "That sounds like a great idea. Just go "That sounds like a great idea. Just go for it." Not thinking through like all for it." Not thinking through like all for it." Not thinking through like all the details and ramifications of what the details and ramifications of what the details and ramifications of what that looked like. And so, next thing I that looked like. And so, next thing I that looked like. And so, next thing I know, I'm in a meeting with one of our know, I'm in a meeting with one of our know, I'm in a meeting with one of our student pastors and they're like, "Hey, student pastors and they're like, "Hey, student pastors and they're like, "Hey, Bose said that we should do this." And Bose said that we should do this." And Bose said that we should do this." And I'm like, "Hold the phone. Like, no, I'm like, "Hold the phone. Like, no, I'm like, "Hold the phone. Like, no, we're not. We're not doing that." Um we're not. We're not doing that." Um we're not. We're not doing that." Um Yes. And so having those short Yes. And so having those short Yes. And so having those short conversations, really trying to operate conversations, really trying to operate conversations, really trying to operate under the like the no surprise premise, under the like the no surprise premise, under the like the no surprise premise, which is what him and I operate under, which is what him and I operate under, which is what him and I operate under, our elders operate under that as well.

our elders operate under that as well. our elders operate under that as well. So we've we've kind of shared the same So we've we've kind of shared the same So we've we've kind of shared the same thing with our elders is like, hey, if thing with our elders is like, hey, if thing with our elders is like, hey, if you have questions or concerns, pick up you have questions or concerns, pick up you have questions or concerns, pick up the phone, make a call, always choose to the phone, make a call, always choose to the phone, make a call, always choose to believe the best um instead of assuming believe the best um instead of assuming believe the best um instead of assuming the worst. the worst. the worst. >> Yeah, that's good that, you know, >> Yeah, that's good that, you know, >> Yeah, that's good that, you know, speaking with weight. Uh you know, speaking with weight. Uh you know, speaking with weight. Uh you know, that's always a shrewd move by staff to that's always a shrewd move by staff to that's always a shrewd move by staff to like if I can just get the lead person like if I can just get the lead person like if I can just get the lead person to say, "Yeah, yeah, go do that." that to say, "Yeah, yeah, go do that." that to say, "Yeah, yeah, go do that." that that's like a blank check. Well, Bo that's like a blank check. Well, Bo that's like a blank check. Well, Bo said, you know, I can imagine said, you know, I can imagine said, you know, I can imagine >> sign off on it. It's fine. >> sign off on it. It's fine. >> sign off on it. It's fine. >> It's fine. It's totally fine. We're >> It's fine. It's totally fine. We're >> It's fine. It's totally fine. We're buying the corporate jet. It's fine. Um, buying the corporate jet. It's fine. Um, buying the corporate jet. It's fine. Um, let's go back to the best friends versus let's go back to the best friends versus let's go back to the best friends versus co-workers thing. I I co-workers thing. I I co-workers thing. I I >> I see that this is an interesting um >> I see that this is an interesting um >> I see that this is an interesting um relationship. And I've had I've had the relationship. And I've had I've had the relationship. And I've had I've had the privilege of working for three privilege of working for three privilege of working for three incredible lead pastors who um I had incredible lead pastors who um I had incredible lead pastors who um I had really good positive relationships with. really good positive relationships with. really good positive relationships with. And um you know we got a lot of stuff And um you know we got a lot of stuff And um you know we got a lot of stuff done, moved a lot of stuff for the done, moved a lot of stuff for the done, moved a lot of stuff for the kingdom and um we're friendly like we're kingdom and um we're friendly like we're kingdom and um we're friendly like we're we were close but we weren't like dudes. we were close but we weren't like dudes. we were close but we weren't like dudes. We were not like you know going to We were not like you know going to We were not like you know going to whatever dudes do like you know and and whatever dudes do like you know and and whatever dudes do like you know and and so I sometimes had tension around in my so I sometimes had tension around in my so I sometimes had tension around in my own brain around like should I be more own brain around like should I be more own brain around like should I be more friendly with these people? I don't friendly with these people? I don't friendly with these people? I don't know. Help us understand pull that know. Help us understand pull that know. Help us understand pull that apart. How what do you think is healthy?

apart. How what do you think is healthy? apart. How what do you think is healthy? What what what's kind of a minimum What what what's kind of a minimum What what what's kind of a minimum viable relationship? uh you know, how do viable relationship? uh you know, how do viable relationship? uh you know, how do we think through our you know, that that we think through our you know, that that we think through our you know, that that side of this this relationship? side of this this relationship? side of this this relationship? >> Yeah, that's that's a really that's a I >> Yeah, that's that's a really that's a I >> Yeah, that's that's a really that's a I think it's probably different for every think it's probably different for every think it's probably different for every senior um executive pastor relationship, senior um executive pastor relationship, senior um executive pastor relationship, but I feel like there's some who think but I feel like there's some who think but I feel like there's some who think that they need to be best friends. So that they need to be best friends. So that they need to be best friends. So like every vacation we do, like our like every vacation we do, like our like every vacation we do, like our families need to do this together. Um families need to do this together. Um families need to do this together. Um every hobby like we need to be a part of every hobby like we need to be a part of every hobby like we need to be a part of that together. What I'm also realizing that together. What I'm also realizing that together. What I'm also realizing is that there is that there is that there >> there's probably some common interest >> there's probably some common interest >> there's probably some common interest that you share that you share that you share >> and they may not be the same. like your >> and they may not be the same. like your >> and they may not be the same. like your lead pastor may like to golf, you may lead pastor may like to golf, you may lead pastor may like to golf, you may not like to golf. Um I may really like not like to golf. Um I may really like not like to golf. Um I may really like to fish, he does not really care to to fish, he does not really care to to fish, he does not really care to fish, but but there are common interests fish, but but there are common interests fish, but but there are common interests that we've realized over time. Um so a that we've realized over time. Um so a that we've realized over time. Um so a lot of that could be uh sports. So like lot of that could be uh sports. So like lot of that could be uh sports. So like we follow one of the same um college we follow one of the same um college we follow one of the same um college football teams. Um we both enjoy working football teams. Um we both enjoy working football teams. Um we both enjoy working out and so being able to share some of out and so being able to share some of out and so being able to share some of the best practices in those areas. I the best practices in those areas. I the best practices in those areas. I think it is finding like where is there think it is finding like where is there think it is finding like where is there common ground and how can we have a common ground and how can we have a common ground and how can we have a conversation. At the same time, I don't conversation. At the same time, I don't conversation. At the same time, I don't know how healthy it is for you to be know how healthy it is for you to be know how healthy it is for you to be best friends. Um, because there are best friends. Um, because there are best friends. Um, because there are times where that could actually keep you times where that could actually keep you times where that could actually keep you from being fully truthful with them in from being fully truthful with them in from being fully truthful with them in in worries that you may like you may in worries that you may like you may in worries that you may like you may impact your relationship in some impact your relationship in some impact your relationship in some capacity. I think that's a dangerous capacity. I think that's a dangerous capacity. I think that's a dangerous place to be.

place to be. place to be. That's good. How do you think so? We're That's good. How do you think so? We're That's good. How do you think so? We're really talking here about trust and how really talking here about trust and how really talking here about trust and how we're building trust. How are we we're building trust. How are we we're building trust. How are we trustworthy people with our lead pastor trustworthy people with our lead pastor trustworthy people with our lead pastor and are seen by being trustworthy with and are seen by being trustworthy with and are seen by being trustworthy with our lead pastor and then vice versa? How our lead pastor and then vice versa? How our lead pastor and then vice versa? How do we um you know continue to try to you do we um you know continue to try to you do we um you know continue to try to you know choose trust with them and engage know choose trust with them and engage know choose trust with them and engage in a way how do you think this idea of in a way how do you think this idea of in a way how do you think this idea of building trust ends up rippling into building trust ends up rippling into building trust ends up rippling into other relationships as as a as we lead other relationships as as a as we lead other relationships as as a as we lead as an executive pastor? I often think, as an executive pastor? I often think, as an executive pastor? I often think, you know, we we end up in we're in this you know, we we end up in we're in this you know, we we end up in we're in this really interesting kind of um really interesting kind of um really interesting kind of um intersection of vision and execution. intersection of vision and execution. intersection of vision and execution. And so, you know, often times I think And so, you know, often times I think And so, you know, often times I think lead pastors when they're doing their lead pastors when they're doing their lead pastors when they're doing their job right, they are like a large portion job right, they are like a large portion job right, they are like a large portion of what they're doing is thinking about of what they're doing is thinking about of what they're doing is thinking about vision and about the future. And then vision and about the future. And then vision and about the future. And then our job is to figure out, okay, how does our job is to figure out, okay, how does our job is to figure out, okay, how does that actually how do we make that work? that actually how do we make that work? that actually how do we make that work? And so, we got to work with all these And so, we got to work with all these And so, we got to work with all these other relationships. What's the other relationships. What's the other relationships. What's the connection here around trust and connection here around trust and connection here around trust and relationships with our staff, with our relationships with our staff, with our relationships with our staff, with our staff teams, maybe younger staff? What's staff teams, maybe younger staff? What's staff teams, maybe younger staff? What's that look like? that look like? that look like? And I think it goes back to being And I think it goes back to being And I think it goes back to being truthful. Um truthful. Um truthful. Um >> if if I overcommit and underdel that I >> if if I overcommit and underdel that I >> if if I overcommit and underdel that I can only do that a couple of times can only do that a couple of times can only do that a couple of times before like trust will start to erode.

before like trust will start to erode. before like trust will start to erode. And I've seen it times over the years And I've seen it times over the years And I've seen it times over the years where like somebody way overcommits on where like somebody way overcommits on where like somebody way overcommits on this and they're like no problem we can this and they're like no problem we can this and they're like no problem we can do this and you know we're going to have do this and you know we're going to have do this and you know we're going to have 10,000 people show up to it but it's 10,000 people show up to it but it's 10,000 people show up to it but it's going to be amazing. And then you you going to be amazing. And then you you going to be amazing. And then you you hype it up in such a way that then then hype it up in such a way that then then hype it up in such a way that then then the event or the function whatever it is the event or the function whatever it is the event or the function whatever it is happens and then all of a sudden you happens and then all of a sudden you happens and then all of a sudden you like you feel like you way like you feel like you way like you feel like you way underdelivered. You can only do that I underdelivered. You can only do that I underdelivered. You can only do that I think a few times before it starts to think a few times before it starts to think a few times before it starts to become like man I'm not sure like I know become like man I'm not sure like I know become like man I'm not sure like I know I know Jeremy said he was going to do I know Jeremy said he was going to do I know Jeremy said he was going to do this but like he keeps dropping the this but like he keeps dropping the this but like he keeps dropping the ball. He keeps committing at super high ball. He keeps committing at super high ball. He keeps committing at super high level and he's not executing at that level and he's not executing at that level and he's not executing at that level. I think that that starts level. I think that that starts level. I think that that starts impacting things. Um there's a there's a impacting things. Um there's a there's a impacting things. Um there's a there's a great book out there um that Steven great book out there um that Steven great book out there um that Steven Cubby wrote. Um he's probably most uh Cubby wrote. Um he's probably most uh Cubby wrote. Um he's probably most uh probably most well known for the seven probably most well known for the seven probably most well known for the seven habits of highly effective people I habits of highly effective people I habits of highly effective people I think is the name of the book. think is the name of the book. think is the name of the book. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He wrote another book um that's not as >> He wrote another book um that's not as >> He wrote another book um that's not as well known, but the book is called Speed well known, but the book is called Speed well known, but the book is called Speed Up Trust. Up Trust. Up Trust. >> Yeah. And it's a great reminder that >> Yeah. And it's a great reminder that >> Yeah. And it's a great reminder that like the more you work on being synced like the more you work on being synced like the more you work on being synced up together, the more trust begins to up together, the more trust begins to up together, the more trust begins to grow, the faster you can actually move grow, the faster you can actually move grow, the faster you can actually move and operate as an organization and as an and operate as an organization and as an and operate as an organization and as an entity. Um, the more that that is built.

entity. Um, the more that that is built. entity. Um, the more that that is built. And so, um, so if you haven't had a And so, um, so if you haven't had a And so, um, so if you haven't had a chance to read it, fascinating read. Um chance to read it, fascinating read. Um chance to read it, fascinating read. Um it was really helpful for me to it was really helpful for me to it was really helpful for me to understand that like the more truthful I understand that like the more truthful I understand that like the more truthful I am, the more consistent I am, the more am, the more consistent I am, the more am, the more consistent I am, the more clarity I'm providing and actually clarity I'm providing and actually clarity I'm providing and actually executing at that level, then the more executing at that level, then the more executing at that level, then the more trust begins to build and therefore it trust begins to build and therefore it trust begins to build and therefore it allows us to actually move at a pretty allows us to actually move at a pretty allows us to actually move at a pretty rapid pace. Um the more that that that rapid pace. Um the more that that that rapid pace. Um the more that that that foundation um is built and I think it foundation um is built and I think it foundation um is built and I think it impacts the staff as a whole. Um it's impacts the staff as a whole. Um it's impacts the staff as a whole. Um it's it's a little bit like the mom dad it's a little bit like the mom dad it's a little bit like the mom dad relationship like if there's tension or relationship like if there's tension or relationship like if there's tension or if they've like if there's been a fight if they've like if there's been a fight if they've like if there's been a fight or an argument like as as kids like you or an argument like as as kids like you or an argument like as as kids like you can tell like something's like like what can tell like something's like like what can tell like something's like like what what did dad say or you know what why is what did dad say or you know what why is what did dad say or you know what why is mom upset with dad? Um I I think the mom upset with dad? Um I I think the mom upset with dad? Um I I think the staff can sense that like if something staff can sense that like if something staff can sense that like if something is off between the two of you, they can is off between the two of you, they can is off between the two of you, they can start to begin to wonder, doubt. Um they start to begin to wonder, doubt. Um they start to begin to wonder, doubt. Um they can even begin to, you know, put in like can even begin to, you know, put in like can even begin to, you know, put in like suspicious thoughts of like, man, suspicious thoughts of like, man, suspicious thoughts of like, man, something must be off here. Something's something must be off here. Something's something must be off here. Something's out of sync. Um and so I think that that out of sync. Um and so I think that that out of sync. Um and so I think that that that's a big part of it is just is that's a big part of it is just is that's a big part of it is just is taking time working on the relationship taking time working on the relationship taking time working on the relationship and then just watching it kind of like and then just watching it kind of like and then just watching it kind of like grow and blossom um over time. But also grow and blossom um over time. But also grow and blossom um over time. But also I would encourage like if you're a new I would encourage like if you're a new I would encourage like if you're a new executive pastor to the role um just executive pastor to the role um just executive pastor to the role um just realize that like realize that like realize that like >> you can't buy time >> you can't buy time >> you can't buy time and investment over years the things and investment over years the things and investment over years the things that you've learned. You know we talk that you've learned. You know we talk that you've learned. You know we talk often here about like failing fast and often here about like failing fast and often here about like failing fast and cheap um cheap um cheap um >> because we feel like failure is actually

>> because we feel like failure is actually >> because we feel like failure is actually needed to be able to accomplish what needed to be able to accomplish what needed to be able to accomplish what God's calling us to do. But I think if God's calling us to do. But I think if God's calling us to do. But I think if you're not truthful and transparent as you're not truthful and transparent as you're not truthful and transparent as that's happening, um, then then it's not that's happening, um, then then it's not that's happening, um, then then it's not long before it it starts catching up to long before it it starts catching up to long before it it starts catching up to you. you. you. >> That's good. That reminds me, one of the >> That's good. That reminds me, one of the >> That's good. That reminds me, one of the the, you know, axioms I've talked about the, you know, axioms I've talked about the, you know, axioms I've talked about with our teams is, you know, there's with our teams is, you know, there's with our teams is, you know, there's there's no bad information. There's just there's no bad information. There's just there's no bad information. There's just cuz I think sometimes like something cuz I think sometimes like something cuz I think sometimes like something might go wrong. You might have an event, might go wrong. You might have an event, might go wrong. You might have an event, you might be a team member, you, you you might be a team member, you, you you might be a team member, you, you know, you busted something. It could be know, you busted something. It could be know, you busted something. It could be as simple as uh, you know, youth event. as simple as uh, you know, youth event. as simple as uh, you know, youth event. We had literally had this happen. We We had literally had this happen. We We had literally had this happen. We opened a brand new building and the very opened a brand new building and the very opened a brand new building and the very first youth event there was a our we had first youth event there was a our we had first youth event there was a our we had a kid go through the wall and it busted a kid go through the wall and it busted a kid go through the wall and it busted a like it you know busted a wall like a like it you know busted a wall like a like it you know busted a wall like it's brand new building $15 million it's brand new building $15 million it's brand new building $15 million build. Wow, this is amazing. You know, build. Wow, this is amazing. You know, build. Wow, this is amazing. You know, put a hole in the wall. And um you know, put a hole in the wall. And um you know, put a hole in the wall. And um you know, there's no bad information. If what there's no bad information. If what there's no bad information. If what makes that hole in the wall worse is if makes that hole in the wall worse is if makes that hole in the wall worse is if we never hear about it and it gets we never hear about it and it gets we never hear about it and it gets covered up and someone puts a you know, covered up and someone puts a you know, covered up and someone puts a you know, well, we'll just move this, you know, well, we'll just move this, you know, well, we'll just move this, you know, whatever some furniture. Yeah. Put a whatever some furniture. Yeah. Put a whatever some furniture. Yeah. Put a poster in front of it or whatever. And poster in front of it or whatever. And poster in front of it or whatever. And that just gets worse over time. Like, that just gets worse over time. Like, that just gets worse over time. Like, sure, there may be information we don't sure, there may be information we don't sure, there may be information we don't like, uh but there's no bad information.

like, uh but there's no bad information. like, uh but there's no bad information. like we've got to be organizations that like we've got to be organizations that like we've got to be organizations that spread even bad news and you know how we spread even bad news and you know how we spread even bad news and you know how we react. Um that was one of the times react. Um that was one of the times react. Um that was one of the times where I felt like in that case that where I felt like in that case that where I felt like in that case that instance I said was I feel like oh like instance I said was I feel like oh like instance I said was I feel like oh like the Lord was with me because actually I the Lord was with me because actually I the Lord was with me because actually I responded super well. I said to the guy responded super well. I said to the guy responded super well. I said to the guy I'm like this is why we bought this I'm like this is why we bought this I'm like this is why we bought this building. I'm so glad you had all these building. I'm so glad you had all these building. I'm so glad you had all these students here. You know let's get it students here. You know let's get it students here. You know let's get it fixed and and move forward. I did not fixed and and move forward. I did not fixed and and move forward. I did not like paying that bill but you know it is like paying that bill but you know it is like paying that bill but you know it is it is what it is. So, but we can't if we it is what it is. So, but we can't if we it is what it is. So, but we can't if we create organizations that are trying to create organizations that are trying to create organizations that are trying to hide the truth, that are trying to hide hide the truth, that are trying to hide hide the truth, that are trying to hide information that will erode trust long information that will erode trust long information that will erode trust long term and you move way slower to the term and you move way slower to the term and you move way slower to the speed of trust um you know information speed of trust um you know information speed of trust um you know information there. So, pivoting in a in a slightly there. So, pivoting in a in a slightly there. So, pivoting in a in a slightly different direction but related kind of different direction but related kind of different direction but related kind of an adjacent neighborhood of an adjacent neighborhood of an adjacent neighborhood of conversation. Um, what are you learning conversation. Um, what are you learning conversation. Um, what are you learning about developing particularly trust with about developing particularly trust with about developing particularly trust with or building up team members, younger or building up team members, younger or building up team members, younger team members, newer team members at at team members, newer team members at at team members, newer team members at at One Church? How what does that look like One Church? How what does that look like One Church? How what does that look like for you guys? How how are you how does for you guys? How how are you how does for you guys? How how are you how does that fit into this whole idea of, you that fit into this whole idea of, you that fit into this whole idea of, you know, building trust with people? That's know, building trust with people? That's know, building trust with people? That's a great question, Rich, because we a great question, Rich, because we a great question, Rich, because we actually the and we can talk about it if actually the and we can talk about it if actually the and we can talk about it if we have time, but the executive pastor we have time, but the executive pastor we have time, but the executive pastor summit this year specifically is is summit this year specifically is is summit this year specifically is is really about leading up and empowering really about leading up and empowering really about leading up and empowering younger leaders. Um, but can I just do a younger leaders. Um, but can I just do a younger leaders. Um, but can I just do a quick uh jump backwards before um quick uh jump backwards before um quick uh jump backwards before um >> just just maybe this is a bonus thing.

>> just just maybe this is a bonus thing. >> just just maybe this is a bonus thing. uh regardless of whether you've worked uh regardless of whether you've worked uh regardless of whether you've worked with your lead senior pastor um for the with your lead senior pastor um for the with your lead senior pastor um for the last couple months or the last 10 years last couple months or the last 10 years last couple months or the last 10 years um something that I has really changed um something that I has really changed um something that I has really changed my heart and my perspective and I think my heart and my perspective and I think my heart and my perspective and I think has really helped grow the relationship has really helped grow the relationship has really helped grow the relationship is um is just daily be in prayer for him is um is just daily be in prayer for him is um is just daily be in prayer for him or her. M or her. M or her. M >> um I know that sounds very simple. Until >> um I know that sounds very simple. Until >> um I know that sounds very simple. Until about 3 years ago, I would pray for Bo about 3 years ago, I would pray for Bo about 3 years ago, I would pray for Bo on a regular basis, but it was just kind on a regular basis, but it was just kind on a regular basis, but it was just kind of like a when I thought of it or on the of like a when I thought of it or on the of like a when I thought of it or on the way to work or Sunday morning, way to work or Sunday morning, way to work or Sunday morning, >> big thing coming up or >> big thing coming up or >> big thing coming up or >> Yeah, here's a big thing coming up. But >> Yeah, here's a big thing coming up. But >> Yeah, here's a big thing coming up. But but man, the the more uh we really but man, the the more uh we really but man, the the more uh we really challenge all of our staff to do this. challenge all of our staff to do this. challenge all of our staff to do this. But I I know for myself, praying for But I I know for myself, praying for But I I know for myself, praying for him, praying for each of his kids by him, praying for each of his kids by him, praying for each of his kids by name, knowing where they're at in their name, knowing where they're at in their name, knowing where they're at in their life, relationships they're in, praying life, relationships they're in, praying life, relationships they're in, praying for his spouse. Um and I know he's doing for his spouse. Um and I know he's doing for his spouse. Um and I know he's doing the same thing. Like I think that that the same thing. Like I think that that the same thing. Like I think that that God really takes that, honors that, and God really takes that, honors that, and God really takes that, honors that, and he helps kind of build trust through he helps kind of build trust through he helps kind of build trust through that. And so just an encouragement to that. And so just an encouragement to that. And so just an encouragement to some of you if you're like wrestling some of you if you're like wrestling some of you if you're like wrestling with this, if you're doubting, if you with this, if you're doubting, if you with this, if you're doubting, if you feel like the enemy is getting a feel like the enemy is getting a feel like the enemy is getting a foothold is my encouragement is my man, foothold is my encouragement is my man, foothold is my encouragement is my man, just take time every single day uh to just take time every single day uh to just take time every single day uh to pray for your um senior lead pastor and pray for your um senior lead pastor and pray for your um senior lead pastor and then um I think that'll make a huge then um I think that'll make a huge then um I think that'll make a huge difference. So um just wanted to put difference. So um just wanted to put difference. So um just wanted to put that in so I didn't forget about that on that in so I didn't forget about that on that in so I didn't forget about that on the on the back.

the on the back. the on the back. >> Good. It's a great practical tactic for >> Good. It's a great practical tactic for >> Good. It's a great practical tactic for us around particularly, you know, you us around particularly, you know, you us around particularly, you know, you think about the the lead pastor. There think about the the lead pastor. There think about the the lead pastor. There was a a high percentage of these in this was a a high percentage of these in this was a a high percentage of these in this kind of one out of five that were really kind of one out of five that were really kind of one out of five that were really saying so it's 17.89 is the number of saying so it's 17.89 is the number of saying so it's 17.89 is the number of people of executive pastors that said people of executive pastors that said people of executive pastors that said that they feel neutral about their that they feel neutral about their that they feel neutral about their relationship with their lead pastor. And relationship with their lead pastor. And relationship with their lead pastor. And man, we don't want to feel neutral about man, we don't want to feel neutral about man, we don't want to feel neutral about this relationship. Like this can't be this relationship. Like this can't be this relationship. Like this can't be like it's fine. Like that's not good. like it's fine. Like that's not good. like it's fine. Like that's not good. That would be a great takeaway is say, That would be a great takeaway is say, That would be a great takeaway is say, "Hey, what if I was going to spend time "Hey, what if I was going to spend time "Hey, what if I was going to spend time every day praying for my lead pastor, every day praying for my lead pastor, every day praying for my lead pastor, for what's going on in their world, for for what's going on in their world, for for what's going on in their world, for their um, you know, for their spouse, their um, you know, for their spouse, their um, you know, for their spouse, for their kids, all of that." I think for their kids, all of that." I think for their kids, all of that." I think that's a great uh great takeaway. That's that's a great uh great takeaway. That's that's a great uh great takeaway. That's a call back to a previous episode as a call back to a previous episode as a call back to a previous episode as well. I love and I know I've joked with well. I love and I know I've joked with well. I love and I know I've joked with you about this before when we had you you about this before when we had you you about this before when we had you and Bo on talking about multi-sight and Bo on talking about multi-sight and Bo on talking about multi-sight stuff last year and you know I asked stuff last year and you know I asked stuff last year and you know I asked this question around how do you know the this question around how do you know the this question around how do you know the campus versus teams and like the classic campus versus teams and like the classic campus versus teams and like the classic multi-sight tension and um and I've multi-sight tension and um and I've multi-sight tension and um and I've retold this story way too many times and retold this story way too many times and retold this story way too many times and you know I'm like what do you guys do to you know I'm like what do you guys do to you know I'm like what do you guys do to fix this problem and then Bo in his wise fix this problem and then Bo in his wise fix this problem and then Bo in his wise sort of way rolls out the like well you sort of way rolls out the like well you sort of way rolls out the like well you know I pray every day for every staff know I pray every day for every staff know I pray every day for every staff member and their and their family and I member and their and their family and I member and their and their family and I found that that has really helped and I found that that has really helped and I found that that has really helped and I was like literally I was like, "Okay, so was like literally I was like, "Okay, so was like literally I was like, "Okay, so I've been doing this for 20 years asking I've been doing this for 20 years asking I've been doing this for 20 years asking that question. Never never once that question. Never never once that question. Never never once considered that." So, I felt humbled.

considered that." So, I felt humbled. considered that." So, I felt humbled. Uh, but that's a great uh a great, you Uh, but that's a great uh a great, you Uh, but that's a great uh a great, you know, it's not just like um and I know know, it's not just like um and I know know, it's not just like um and I know that's what I love about you guys. It's that's what I love about you guys. It's that's what I love about you guys. It's not like you're not saying that from not like you're not saying that from not like you're not saying that from like, oh, just pray about it. It's like, like, oh, just pray about it. It's like, like, oh, just pray about it. It's like, no, this let's actually add this as a no, this let's actually add this as a no, this let's actually add this as a part of our lives and discipline and see part of our lives and discipline and see part of our lives and discipline and see what the Lord will do. You know, I think what the Lord will do. You know, I think what the Lord will do. You know, I think it's amazing. That's fantastic. it's amazing. That's fantastic. it's amazing. That's fantastic. >> Yeah. And not to recap the whole thing, >> Yeah. And not to recap the whole thing, >> Yeah. And not to recap the whole thing, but man, like our staff as a whole has but man, like our staff as a whole has but man, like our staff as a whole has been doing that the last four and a half been doing that the last four and a half been doing that the last four and a half months, Rich. And even the interaction, months, Rich. And even the interaction, months, Rich. And even the interaction, some of the past frustrations is it's some of the past frustrations is it's some of the past frustrations is it's crazy how much that's minimized, crazy how much that's minimized, crazy how much that's minimized, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And just simply praying for I mean, we >> And just simply praying for I mean, we >> And just simply praying for I mean, we spend all this money to go to spend all this money to go to spend all this money to go to conferences and all this stuff and it's conferences and all this stuff and it's conferences and all this stuff and it's like, hey, how about here's a printed like, hey, how about here's a printed like, hey, how about here's a printed off name of everybody on staff, their off name of everybody on staff, their off name of everybody on staff, their spouse and their kids. Um, hey, just spouse and their kids. Um, hey, just spouse and their kids. Um, hey, just take 20 minutes a day and pray for them. take 20 minutes a day and pray for them. take 20 minutes a day and pray for them. It's like, oh yeah, I can I guess I can It's like, oh yeah, I can I guess I can It's like, oh yeah, I can I guess I can do that as doesn't cost much other than do that as doesn't cost much other than do that as doesn't cost much other than some time. So, but some time. So, but some time. So, but >> well, and you start to see each other as >> well, and you start to see each other as >> well, and you start to see each other as humans, right, at the end of the day. humans, right, at the end of the day. humans, right, at the end of the day. And and you know, you start to be like, And and you know, you start to be like, And and you know, you start to be like, hey, this person's like they're not just hey, this person's like they're not just hey, this person's like they're not just a task that's needs to be done or um you a task that's needs to be done or um you a task that's needs to be done or um you know, they're not just whatever the next know, they're not just whatever the next know, they're not just whatever the next problem is that's going to come up. So, problem is that's going to come up. So, problem is that's going to come up. So, um yeah, that's a great practical um yeah, that's a great practical um yeah, that's a great practical takeaway. Well, let's pivot on that. I I takeaway. Well, let's pivot on that. I I takeaway. Well, let's pivot on that. I I want to make sure because I I know that want to make sure because I I know that want to make sure because I I know that you can help leaders on this as well as you can help leaders on this as well as you can help leaders on this as well as we think about younger leaders. what you we think about younger leaders. what you we think about younger leaders. what you know just ask a super wide open what know just ask a super wide open what know just ask a super wide open what should we be thinking about what are you should we be thinking about what are you should we be thinking about what are you thinking about what are you wrestling thinking about what are you wrestling thinking about what are you wrestling with help us wrestle through that uh you with help us wrestle through that uh you with help us wrestle through that uh you know let's talk about that know let's talk about that know let's talk about that >> yeah something that's really been on my >> yeah something that's really been on my >> yeah something that's really been on my heart the last probably year and a half heart the last probably year and a half heart the last probably year and a half is how do we empower younger leaders and is how do we empower younger leaders and is how do we empower younger leaders and so I'm not sure who sits around like

so I'm not sure who sits around like so I'm not sure who sits around like your you know your decision-making team your you know your decision-making team your you know your decision-making team um but God really put on our heart um but God really put on our heart um but God really put on our heart several years back to start a residency several years back to start a residency several years back to start a residency program and really pour into some of program and really pour into some of program and really pour into some of these these younger leaders because I these these younger leaders because I these these younger leaders because I know people took a risk on people like know people took a risk on people like know people took a risk on people like you and I at some point when we were in you and I at some point when we were in you and I at some point when we were in our 20s and didn't really know what our 20s and didn't really know what our 20s and didn't really know what we're doing and we made some dumb things we're doing and we made some dumb things we're doing and we made some dumb things like I think I made multiple ho holes in like I think I made multiple ho holes in like I think I made multiple ho holes in multiple walls um which the senior multiple walls um which the senior multiple walls um which the senior pastor was like very forgiving at the pastor was like very forgiving at the pastor was like very forgiving at the time about it um but but I just love time about it um but but I just love time about it um but but I just love that we get an opportunity to like that we get an opportunity to like that we get an opportunity to like really pour into invest and actually um really pour into invest and actually um really pour into invest and actually um empower and um and and put some trust empower and um and and put some trust empower and um and and put some trust even behind some of these residents that even behind some of these residents that even behind some of these residents that they're they're going from like, okay, they're they're going from like, okay, they're they're going from like, okay, I've learned these things in school. I I've learned these things in school. I I've learned these things in school. I have this this head knowledge of things, have this this head knowledge of things, have this this head knowledge of things, but from a practical standpoint, what but from a practical standpoint, what but from a practical standpoint, what does that really look like? And so, um, does that really look like? And so, um, does that really look like? And so, um, so knowing that we were going to have so knowing that we were going to have so knowing that we were going to have this conversation, I actually sat down this conversation, I actually sat down this conversation, I actually sat down with one of our, um, first year with one of our, um, first year with one of our, um, first year residents just to kind of hear what residents just to kind of hear what residents just to kind of hear what their experience has been so far because their experience has been so far because their experience has been so far because I wanted to hear like the positives, the I wanted to hear like the positives, the I wanted to hear like the positives, the negatives, and kind of what their negatives, and kind of what their negatives, and kind of what their insight was. But, um, but a few things insight was. But, um, but a few things insight was. But, um, but a few things that he shar shared with me was, um, that he shar shared with me was, um, that he shar shared with me was, um, like I love that you guys allow us to like I love that you guys allow us to like I love that you guys allow us to fail. Mhm.

fail. Mhm. fail. Mhm. >> Like I've been other jobs I've been >> Like I've been other jobs I've been >> Like I've been other jobs I've been other jobs before where it's like if other jobs before where it's like if other jobs before where it's like if something happens to me, if I miss it, something happens to me, if I miss it, something happens to me, if I miss it, then it could be like, hey, you're going then it could be like, hey, you're going then it could be like, hey, you're going to get written up for this. Um, and for to get written up for this. Um, and for to get written up for this. Um, and for us, for us, it's really trying to create us, for us, it's really trying to create us, for us, it's really trying to create that culture of like you are allowed to that culture of like you are allowed to that culture of like you are allowed to fail. You're allowed to try things. We fail. You're allowed to try things. We fail. You're allowed to try things. We talk about failing fast and cheap. Um, talk about failing fast and cheap. Um, talk about failing fast and cheap. Um, we hope it doesn't cost us a lot, but we hope it doesn't cost us a lot, but we hope it doesn't cost us a lot, but but ultimately like that's a safe place but ultimately like that's a safe place but ultimately like that's a safe place in the residency um to to be able to be. in the residency um to to be able to be. in the residency um to to be able to be. Another thing he said was um like I've Another thing he said was um like I've Another thing he said was um like I've been challenged to say yes to been challenged to say yes to been challenged to say yes to opportunities. And I was like well yeah opportunities. And I was like well yeah opportunities. And I was like well yeah tell me a little bit more about that. tell me a little bit more about that. tell me a little bit more about that. And he's like no usually kind of like And he's like no usually kind of like And he's like no usually kind of like you pick and choose you know well yeah I you pick and choose you know well yeah I you pick and choose you know well yeah I want to say yes to this one but I don't want to say yes to this one but I don't want to say yes to this one but I don't want to say yes to this. And want to say yes to this. And want to say yes to this. And >> he's like I'm in my early 20s like why >> he's like I'm in my early 20s like why >> he's like I'm in my early 20s like why would I not say yes to all these would I not say yes to all these would I not say yes to all these different opportunities. Um he's like I different opportunities. Um he's like I different opportunities. Um he's like I really want to be scrappy. And I'm like really want to be scrappy. And I'm like really want to be scrappy. And I'm like well tell me more tell me more about well tell me more tell me more about well tell me more tell me more about that. He's like, "No, I really want to that. He's like, "No, I really want to that. He's like, "No, I really want to be like more of a utility like be like more of a utility like be like more of a utility like multi-tool staffer." And in my mind, I'm multi-tool staffer." And in my mind, I'm multi-tool staffer." And in my mind, I'm like, "Okay, I I appreciate the the like, "Okay, I I appreciate the the like, "Okay, I I appreciate the the hustle and this younger resident because hustle and this younger resident because hustle and this younger resident because he's already talking about like, okay, he's already talking about like, okay, he's already talking about like, okay, how how do we create a staffing position how how do we create a staffing position how how do we create a staffing position for him, but I also think realizing for him, but I also think realizing for him, but I also think realizing that, you know, he said if I get an that, you know, he said if I get an that, you know, he said if I get an opportunity to preach, I'm going to take opportunity to preach, I'm going to take opportunity to preach, I'm going to take the opportunity to preach. If I get the the opportunity to preach. If I get the the opportunity to preach. If I get the opportunity to host, I want to take the opportunity to host, I want to take the opportunity to host, I want to take the opportunity to host. if I don't have opportunity to host. if I don't have opportunity to host. if I don't have anything that weekend, then I'm going to anything that weekend, then I'm going to anything that weekend, then I'm going to see if I can serve with our production see if I can serve with our production see if I can serve with our production team and kind of learn the behind team and kind of learn the behind team and kind of learn the behind thescenes side of things so that I can thescenes side of things so that I can thescenes side of things so that I can help with that anywhere that's needed.

help with that anywhere that's needed. help with that anywhere that's needed. And so, I love this idea that they're And so, I love this idea that they're And so, I love this idea that they're willing to say yes. They're willing to willing to say yes. They're willing to willing to say yes. They're willing to take some risks knowing that the team take some risks knowing that the team take some risks knowing that the team believes in them. And so, for us, and I believes in them. And so, for us, and I believes in them. And so, for us, and I think for me specifically, it's been think for me specifically, it's been think for me specifically, it's been okay, who do I see being a part of our okay, who do I see being a part of our okay, who do I see being a part of our leadership decision-making team in the leadership decision-making team in the leadership decision-making team in the years ahead? And I know for, you know, years ahead? And I know for, you know, years ahead? And I know for, you know, if the average age in the room is like if the average age in the room is like if the average age in the room is like say in their mid4s, like to bring in a a say in their mid4s, like to bring in a a say in their mid4s, like to bring in a a early mid20y old is like, wait a second, early mid20y old is like, wait a second, early mid20y old is like, wait a second, like what is this, you know, what is like what is this, you know, what is like what is this, you know, what is this kid going to say to us? Um, I think this kid going to say to us? Um, I think this kid going to say to us? Um, I think that provides some incredibly fresh that provides some incredibly fresh that provides some incredibly fresh perspective perspective perspective >> on what we're actually doing well, >> on what we're actually doing well, >> on what we're actually doing well, things that we should do differently, things that we should do differently, things that we should do differently, um, and just ways that we can continue um, and just ways that we can continue um, and just ways that we can continue to like really empower them, challenge to like really empower them, challenge to like really empower them, challenge them, um, put them in positions that may them, um, put them in positions that may them, um, put them in positions that may make them feel uncomfortable. Like we make them feel uncomfortable. Like we make them feel uncomfortable. Like we have some that have are like almost have some that have are like almost have some that have are like almost deathly afraid of having, you know, deathly afraid of having, you know, deathly afraid of having, you know, being on stage and talk talking to being on stage and talk talking to being on stage and talk talking to somebody, but like give them an somebody, but like give them an somebody, but like give them an opportunity to to get in there, host. I opportunity to to get in there, host. I opportunity to to get in there, host. I mean, hosting's two, three minutes, but mean, hosting's two, three minutes, but mean, hosting's two, three minutes, but get an opportunity to get on stage, just get an opportunity to get on stage, just get an opportunity to get on stage, just kind of like, you know, put a little kind of like, you know, put a little kind of like, you know, put a little fire under them and and see how they do fire under them and and see how they do fire under them and and see how they do and and just watch them grow. And I'm and and just watch them grow. And I'm and and just watch them grow. And I'm always shocked, and I shouldn't be always shocked, and I shouldn't be always shocked, and I shouldn't be shocked because we've been doing the shocked because we've been doing the shocked because we've been doing the residency for a while, but how many of residency for a while, but how many of residency for a while, but how many of them not only step up into the them not only step up into the them not only step up into the challenge, but then actually go beyond challenge, but then actually go beyond challenge, but then actually go beyond our expectations, our expectations, our expectations, >> right? That's so good. I think this is a >> right? That's so good. I think this is a >> right? That's so good. I think this is a critical import critically important for critical import critically important for critical import critically important for us to lean in on. Um, you know, in the us to lean in on. Um, you know, in the us to lean in on. Um, you know, in the last year, I've been struck. I was uh last year, I've been struck. I was uh last year, I've been struck. I was uh with a lot of different churches and but with a lot of different churches and but with a lot of different churches and but there were two in particular that stood there were two in particular that stood there were two in particular that stood out to me. These are like prevailing

out to me. These are like prevailing out to me. These are like prevailing churches. folks that are listening in, churches. folks that are listening in, churches. folks that are listening in, if you were listening, they're like name if you were listening, they're like name if you were listening, they're like name brand churches. You know these people. brand churches. You know these people. brand churches. You know these people. And the thing that stood out to me was I And the thing that stood out to me was I And the thing that stood out to me was I was having in both of them, I just was having in both of them, I just was having in both of them, I just happened to be having a kind of a happened to be having a kind of a happened to be having a kind of a meeting with leadership meeting with the meeting with leadership meeting with the meeting with leadership meeting with the folks that were actually operational folks that were actually operational folks that were actually operational leaders of a whole bunch of different leaders of a whole bunch of different leaders of a whole bunch of different departments. It was like a kind of a departments. It was like a kind of a departments. It was like a kind of a cross-section of teen leaders. And I was cross-section of teen leaders. And I was cross-section of teen leaders. And I was pleasantly surprised with how young that pleasantly surprised with how young that pleasantly surprised with how young that crowd was. Like I looked around the room crowd was. Like I looked around the room crowd was. Like I looked around the room and I was like, man, these people are and I was like, man, these people are and I was like, man, these people are all in their late 20s, early 30s and all in their late 20s, early 30s and all in their late 20s, early 30s and they're running departments that are they're running departments that are they're running departments that are larger than uh you know the majority of larger than uh you know the majority of larger than uh you know the majority of churches in the country. You know, churches in the country. You know, churches in the country. You know, they've they've got you know 15 staff they've they've got you know 15 staff they've they've got you know 15 staff reporting to them. They've you know reporting to them. They've you know reporting to them. They've you know managing multi-million dollars of managing multi-million dollars of managing multi-million dollars of budgets and and these are prevailing budgets and and these are prevailing budgets and and these are prevailing churches. Now I don't think that that is churches. Now I don't think that that is churches. Now I don't think that that is a coincidence. I think both of those a coincidence. I think both of those a coincidence. I think both of those churches have unlocked something and churches have unlocked something and churches have unlocked something and have realized, wait a second, we have to have realized, wait a second, we have to have realized, wait a second, we have to pass this thing on to the next pass this thing on to the next pass this thing on to the next generation. Um, so when you think about generation. Um, so when you think about generation. Um, so when you think about the residency, kind of talk to us about the residency, kind of talk to us about the residency, kind of talk to us about the residency program. What does that the residency program. What does that the residency program. What does that look like? And how did you get into look like? And how did you get into look like? And how did you get into that? How did that kind of get that ball that? How did that kind of get that ball that? How did that kind of get that ball get rolling? Help us understand. Maybe get rolling? Help us understand. Maybe get rolling? Help us understand. Maybe there's someone who's listening in today there's someone who's listening in today there's someone who's listening in today is thinking, hm, maybe that's something is thinking, hm, maybe that's something is thinking, hm, maybe that's something a step we should take in this coming a step we should take in this coming a step we should take in this coming year.

year. year. >> Yeah. So, it was actually um a retired >> Yeah. So, it was actually um a retired >> Yeah. So, it was actually um a retired baseball player who's actually going to baseball player who's actually going to baseball player who's actually going to be at XPS this year. I'm going to do an be at XPS this year. I'm going to do an be at XPS this year. I'm going to do an interview with him because now that he's interview with him because now that he's interview with him because now that he's retired, he's still coaching. But the retired, he's still coaching. But the retired, he's still coaching. But the like now it's kind of coaching up the like now it's kind of coaching up the like now it's kind of coaching up the double AAA players as they're coming in double AAA players as they're coming in double AAA players as they're coming in um and they're moving up to the major um and they're moving up to the major um and they're moving up to the major leagues. But he really challenged us cuz leagues. But he really challenged us cuz leagues. But he really challenged us cuz we told him the staffing was one of the we told him the staffing was one of the we told him the staffing was one of the biggest challenges, especially in um in biggest challenges, especially in um in biggest challenges, especially in um in the New England area. There's not a lot the New England area. There's not a lot the New England area. There's not a lot of people that feel uh called to be um of people that feel uh called to be um of people that feel uh called to be um up here um this close to Canada, which I up here um this close to Canada, which I up here um this close to Canada, which I know you're in Canada, but they're like know you're in Canada, but they're like know you're in Canada, but they're like maybe if we can be further south, like a maybe if we can be further south, like a maybe if we can be further south, like a little more comfortable. But for us, we little more comfortable. But for us, we little more comfortable. But for us, we realized that staffing was a challenge. realized that staffing was a challenge. realized that staffing was a challenge. And for us, he really challenged us to And for us, he really challenged us to And for us, he really challenged us to to start a residency. And the residency, to start a residency. And the residency, to start a residency. And the residency, it's either a one or two-year residency. it's either a one or two-year residency. it's either a one or two-year residency. Um, and you come on, you come in, you Um, and you come on, you come in, you Um, and you come on, you come in, you have two areas of focus. And so, it have two areas of focus. And so, it have two areas of focus. And so, it could be say worship and production. And could be say worship and production. And could be say worship and production. And you'll spend um six months uh with each you'll spend um six months uh with each you'll spend um six months uh with each of those areas really kind of hands-on. of those areas really kind of hands-on. of those areas really kind of hands-on. And so, if you're showing up here, And so, if you're showing up here, And so, if you're showing up here, you're actually like you will be on you're actually like you will be on you're actually like you will be on stage leading worship. um you will be stage leading worship. um you will be stage leading worship. um you will be helping run production uh whether it's helping run production uh whether it's helping run production uh whether it's for our online service or at one of our for our online service or at one of our for our online service or at one of our outposts. Um but we really try to give outposts. Um but we really try to give outposts. Um but we really try to give as many hands-on opportunities as as many hands-on opportunities as as many hands-on opportunities as possible. Um as somebody who went to possible. Um as somebody who went to possible. Um as somebody who went to seminary, um I think I had one class seminary, um I think I had one class seminary, um I think I had one class called practical ministry and it was called practical ministry and it was called practical ministry and it was like here's one semester on, you know, like here's one semester on, you know, like here's one semester on, you know, how to do weddings, how to do funerals, how to do weddings, how to do funerals, how to do weddings, how to do funerals, but not a whole lot of hands-on but not a whole lot of hands-on but not a whole lot of hands-on experience unless I was volunteering at experience unless I was volunteering at experience unless I was volunteering at a church. So for us, it's really trying a church. So for us, it's really trying a church. So for us, it's really trying to take, hey, here's some things that to take, hey, here's some things that to take, hey, here's some things that I've learned um like from a practical

I've learned um like from a practical I've learned um like from a practical standpoint, but like actually let's standpoint, but like actually let's standpoint, but like actually let's actually see them like um live happening actually see them like um live happening actually see them like um live happening in real time and get an opportunity to in real time and get an opportunity to in real time and get an opportunity to be able to see like, hey, is this be able to see like, hey, is this be able to see like, hey, is this something that God's even really calling something that God's even really calling something that God's even really calling me to? Um and how can I use the gifts me to? Um and how can I use the gifts me to? Um and how can I use the gifts that he's given me to further the that he's given me to further the that he's given me to further the kingdom? kingdom? kingdom? >> Yeah, it's so good. Love that. Well, >> Yeah, it's so good. Love that. Well, >> Yeah, it's so good. Love that. Well, we've kind of referenced XPS, so we've kind of referenced XPS, so we've kind of referenced XPS, so xPSummit.org. xPSummit.org. xPSummit.org. Uh this is a conference that you are the Uh this is a conference that you are the Uh this is a conference that you are the grand content puba for. Uh talk to us grand content puba for. Uh talk to us grand content puba for. Uh talk to us about XPS this year. This is to me is a about XPS this year. This is to me is a about XPS this year. This is to me is a mustattend event. Uh talk to us about it mustattend event. Uh talk to us about it mustattend event. Uh talk to us about it and and where is it? All those kind of and and where is it? All those kind of and and where is it? All those kind of details this year. details this year. details this year. >> Yeah, sure. It's uh it's May 4th um >> Yeah, sure. It's uh it's May 4th um >> Yeah, sure. It's uh it's May 4th um through 6th in the in Dallas Fort Worth through 6th in the in Dallas Fort Worth through 6th in the in Dallas Fort Worth and typically we'll have 150 to 175 and typically we'll have 150 to 175 and typically we'll have 150 to 175 executive pastors from different size of executive pastors from different size of executive pastors from different size of churches around the country. Um, and um, churches around the country. Um, and um, churches around the country. Um, and um, and I appreciate the comment, Rich, but and I appreciate the comment, Rich, but and I appreciate the comment, Rich, but really my goal is to get the people that really my goal is to get the people that really my goal is to get the people that are there with the content, people like are there with the content, people like are there with the content, people like you and other leaders who really want to you and other leaders who really want to you and other leaders who really want to come and pour into other executive come and pour into other executive come and pour into other executive pastors. Um, and so yeah, so if you pastors. Um, and so yeah, so if you pastors. Um, and so yeah, so if you whether you live in the area or you just whether you live in the area or you just whether you live in the area or you just want a um a day to hang out with some want a um a day to hang out with some want a um a day to hang out with some incredible leaders, uh, Rich is going to incredible leaders, uh, Rich is going to incredible leaders, uh, Rich is going to be there. I'll be there. And like I be there. I'll be there. And like I be there. I'll be there. And like I said, you can go to xpsummit.org and you said, you can go to xpsummit.org and you said, you can go to xpsummit.org and you can see um some of the keynote speakers can see um some of the keynote speakers can see um some of the keynote speakers as well as some of the breakout leaders.

as well as some of the breakout leaders. as well as some of the breakout leaders. >> Yeah, it's so good. Well, Jeremy, just >> Yeah, it's so good. Well, Jeremy, just >> Yeah, it's so good. Well, Jeremy, just as we wrap up today's episode, bit of a as we wrap up today's episode, bit of a as we wrap up today's episode, bit of a curveball question here as you think curveball question here as you think curveball question here as you think about 2026 at One Church. What's a about 2026 at One Church. What's a about 2026 at One Church. What's a question or two that's on your mind that question or two that's on your mind that question or two that's on your mind that you're like, hm, here's some stuff that you're like, hm, here's some stuff that you're like, hm, here's some stuff that we're thinking about. Doesn't have to do we're thinking about. Doesn't have to do we're thinking about. Doesn't have to do with anything we're talking about today. with anything we're talking about today. with anything we're talking about today. It could be just anything that you're It could be just anything that you're It could be just anything that you're thinking about this year. You're thinking about this year. You're thinking about this year. You're wrestling through thinking, hm, I wonder wrestling through thinking, hm, I wonder wrestling through thinking, hm, I wonder what that's going to look like in this what that's going to look like in this what that's going to look like in this uh this coming year. uh this coming year. uh this coming year. >> Man, I was not expecting that question. >> Man, I was not expecting that question. >> Man, I was not expecting that question. Um, one thing I've been praying about is Um, one thing I've been praying about is Um, one thing I've been praying about is I think we're going to start seeing a I think we're going to start seeing a I think we're going to start seeing a shift in different parts of the country shift in different parts of the country shift in different parts of the country um where we may have um people that are um where we may have um people that are um where we may have um people that are more of like a like a tent maker um role more of like a like a tent maker um role more of like a like a tent maker um role >> in ministry where um >> in ministry where um >> in ministry where um >> I think there's an incredible >> I think there's an incredible >> I think there's an incredible opportunity to do things in like the opportunity to do things in like the opportunity to do things in like the business sector, but at the same time business sector, but at the same time business sector, but at the same time still work in the church using some of still work in the church using some of still work in the church using some of the gifts that God's empowered you with. the gifts that God's empowered you with. the gifts that God's empowered you with. And so I could see a shift happening uh And so I could see a shift happening uh And so I could see a shift happening uh where we have more of the the tent where we have more of the the tent where we have more of the the tent making. It's crazy to me that it's been making. It's crazy to me that it's been making. It's crazy to me that it's been like less than a hundred years since the like less than a hundred years since the like less than a hundred years since the church has actually had like paid church has actually had like paid church has actually had like paid full-time staff. Um, and not only paid full-time staff. Um, and not only paid full-time staff. Um, and not only paid full-time staff, but multiple staff. And full-time staff, but multiple staff. And full-time staff, but multiple staff. And so, I think um I think we could see a so, I think um I think we could see a so, I think um I think we could see a shift there. Um, I think a lot of it's shift there. Um, I think a lot of it's shift there. Um, I think a lot of it's just going to be trying to be, um, in just going to be trying to be, um, in just going to be trying to be, um, in the words of one of our residents, how the words of one of our residents, how the words of one of our residents, how to be a little more scrappy and really to be a little more scrappy and really to be a little more scrappy and really looking for staff that is not just looking for staff that is not just looking for staff that is not just focused on one specific area, but focused on one specific area, but focused on one specific area, but somebody who is a utility player that's somebody who is a utility player that's somebody who is a utility player that's like, hey, I can help out in these four like, hey, I can help out in these four like, hey, I can help out in these four or five different areas instead of just or five different areas instead of just or five different areas instead of just being like, I have this one skill set being like, I have this one skill set being like, I have this one skill set that I can bring. Um, I think those are that I can bring. Um, I think those are that I can bring. Um, I think those are two things that are going to make a huge

two things that are going to make a huge two things that are going to make a huge impact um, in the church in uh, 2026. impact um, in the church in uh, 2026. impact um, in the church in uh, 2026. >> That's great. Thanks so much, Jeremy. I >> That's great. Thanks so much, Jeremy. I >> That's great. Thanks so much, Jeremy. I appreciate uh you being on today. If appreciate uh you being on today. If appreciate uh you being on today. If people want to track with one church, people want to track with one church, people want to track with one church, where do we want to send them online to where do we want to send them online to where do we want to send them online to track with you guys? track with you guys? track with you guys? >> Uh just go to church. A little bit >> Uh just go to church. A little bit >> Uh just go to church. A little bit different of a website, but yeah, they different of a website, but yeah, they different of a website, but yeah, they can go there and you can find my email can go there and you can find my email can go there and you can find my email address if you want to email me or um if address if you want to email me or um if address if you want to email me or um if we can serve you in any way. I know um we can serve you in any way. I know um we can serve you in any way. I know um for for our elders, for Bo, our senior for for our elders, for Bo, our senior for for our elders, for Bo, our senior pastor, um we love so serving the local pastor, um we love so serving the local pastor, um we love so serving the local church as a whole. And so uh if you're church as a whole. And so uh if you're church as a whole. And so uh if you're in the area or if you want to come and in the area or if you want to come and in the area or if you want to come and hang out with us for a few days, shoot hang out with us for a few days, shoot hang out with us for a few days, shoot me an email and uh we'd love to host you me an email and uh we'd love to host you me an email and uh we'd love to host you guys. guys. guys. >> Great. Thanks so much. Thanks for being >> Great. Thanks so much. Thanks for being >> Great. Thanks so much. Thanks for being here today, sir.