Phil Taylor on Defining the Executive Pastor Role

I've been directly involved in the I've been directly involved in the launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site campuses who the churches I've LED and campuses who the churches I've LED and campuses who the churches I've LED and half of them have been in movie theaters half of them have been in movie theaters half of them have been in movie theaters I'm convinced that every Church leader I'm convinced that every Church leader I'm convinced that every Church leader should consider using a theater for your should consider using a theater for your should consider using a theater for your next campus or Church Plant they're next campus or Church Plant they're next campus or Church Plant they're flexible culturally relevant locations flexible culturally relevant locations flexible culturally relevant locations typically in the center of the community typically in the center of the community typically in the center of the community that you're trying to reach Regal is the that you're trying to reach Regal is the that you're trying to reach Regal is the only theater company with a dedicated only theater company with a dedicated only theater company with a dedicated team of full-time Consultants ready to team of full-time Consultants ready to team of full-time Consultants ready to help your church launch and succeed in a help your church launch and succeed in a help your church launch and succeed in a movie theater check out Regal Theater movie theater check out Regal Theater movie theater check out Regal Theater church.com for more information on church.com for more information on church.com for more information on locations your church could locations your church could locations your church could use l and welcome to the unseminary use l and welcome to the unseminary use l and welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for practical podcast are you looking for practical podcast are you looking for practical Ministry help to drive your ministry Ministry help to drive your ministry Ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling further faster have a sinking feeling further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't that your ministry training didn't that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey prepare you for the real world hey prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of you're not alone join thousands of you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast well hey everybody unseminary podcast well hey everybody unseminary podcast well hey everybody Welcome to the unseminary podcast my Welcome to the unseminary podcast my Welcome to the unseminary podcast my name is Rich the host here and we're name is Rich the host here and we're name is Rich the host here and we're just so honored that you would take some just so honored that you would take some just so honored that you would take some time out from your week we know that time out from your week we know that time out from your week we know that you've got a lot going on uh at your you've got a lot going on uh at your you've got a lot going on uh at your church as we head into this weekend and church as we head into this weekend and church as we head into this weekend and I'm just honored that you would take I'm just honored that you would take I'm just honored that you would take some time out uh to be with us today uh some time out uh to be with us today uh some time out uh to be with us today uh we're in for a real treat we've got Phil we're in for a real treat we've got Phil we're in for a real treat we've got Phil Taylor with us from Mosaic Church in Taylor with us from Mosaic Church in Taylor with us from Mosaic Church in Central Florida mosaic's a fantastic Central Florida mosaic's a fantastic Central Florida mosaic's a fantastic church if you haven't had a chance to church if you haven't had a chance to church if you haven't had a chance to check them out you should they've been check them out you should they've been check them out you should they've been around since about 2003 they started in around since about 2003 they started in around since about 2003 they started in Easter 2003 another church our church Easter 2003 another church our church Easter 2003 another church our church started on Easter uh so did uh Mosaic started on Easter uh so did uh Mosaic started on Easter uh so did uh Mosaic there are currently three locations in there are currently three locations in there are currently three locations in Central Florida uh Phil welcome to the Central Florida uh Phil welcome to the Central Florida uh Phil welcome to the show thanks great to be here Rich yeah show thanks great to be here Rich yeah show thanks great to be here Rich yeah Phil why don't you tell us a little bit

Phil why don't you tell us a little bit Phil why don't you tell us a little bit about Mosaic give us kind of the sense about Mosaic give us kind of the sense about Mosaic give us kind of the sense of what people you know would expect of what people you know would expect of what people you know would expect from the church and then your role there from the church and then your role there from the church and then your role there yeah sure well we we are you know we are yeah sure well we we are you know we are yeah sure well we we are you know we are in the the backyard of Disney World and in the the backyard of Disney World and in the the backyard of Disney World and so that's kind of the the dominant focus so that's kind of the the dominant focus so that's kind of the the dominant focus of the whole area here uh you've got 55 of the whole area here uh you've got 55 of the whole area here uh you've got 55 million tourists a year coming to the million tourists a year coming to the million tourists a year coming to the Orlando area you've got at Disney world Orlando area you've got at Disney world Orlando area you've got at Disney world alone 74,000 people that work there and alone 74,000 people that work there and alone 74,000 people that work there and so we really um we serve a lot of people so we really um we serve a lot of people so we really um we serve a lot of people that are in the uh entertainment that are in the uh entertainment that are in the uh entertainment industry in the theme Park industry uh industry in the theme Park industry uh industry in the theme Park industry uh in the hospitality industry and that in the hospitality industry and that in the hospitality industry and that really kind of pervades our culture here really kind of pervades our culture here really kind of pervades our culture here uh which makes it kind of an interesting uh which makes it kind of an interesting uh which makes it kind of an interesting place because you've got people moving place because you've got people moving place because you've got people moving here from all over the place no one no here from all over the place no one no here from all over the place no one no one that lives in Orlando is from one that lives in Orlando is from one that lives in Orlando is from Orlando the first question you ask is Orlando the first question you ask is Orlando the first question you ask is where are you from because the where are you from because the where are you from because the assumption is you're not from here yes U assumption is you're not from here yes U assumption is you're not from here yes U which makes it uh kind of an interesting which makes it uh kind of an interesting which makes it uh kind of an interesting place because it's sort of this uh place place because it's sort of this uh place place because it's sort of this uh place where people are picking up from all where people are picking up from all where people are picking up from all over the country or world and and saying over the country or world and and saying over the country or world and and saying I'm going to go move to Orlando so it uh I'm going to go move to Orlando so it uh I'm going to go move to Orlando so it uh kind of has a little bit of a you know a kind of has a little bit of a you know a kind of has a little bit of a you know a modern-day West kind of a feel to it um modern-day West kind of a feel to it um modern-day West kind of a feel to it um which is a lot of fun U Mosaic Church um which is a lot of fun U Mosaic Church um which is a lot of fun U Mosaic Church um uh is in three locations one of our uh is in three locations one of our uh is in three locations one of our locations is actually at Disney World we locations is actually at Disney World we locations is actually at Disney World we have a location uh in Disney property in have a location uh in Disney property in have a location uh in Disney property in What's called the downtown Disney or now What's called the downtown Disney or now What's called the downtown Disney or now uh Disney Springs area and and we have a uh Disney Springs area and and we have a uh Disney Springs area and and we have a campus Pastor there uh and then we have campus Pastor there uh and then we have campus Pastor there uh and then we have two other kind of more Suburban uh two other kind of more Suburban uh two other kind of more Suburban uh campuses and um we're actually getting campuses and um we're actually getting campuses and um we're actually getting ready to bring those two campuses ready to bring those two campuses ready to bring those two campuses together into one new building because together into one new building because together into one new building because the building we found just happens to be the building we found just happens to be the building we found just happens to be in the middle and it's going to give us in the middle and it's going to give us in the middle and it's going to give us a lot of space for growth so uh that'll a lot of space for growth so uh that'll a lot of space for growth so uh that'll happen later on this year when our when happen later on this year when our when happen later on this year when our when our construction is finished but tell

our construction is finished but tell our construction is finished but tell tell us about your role there what is tell us about your role there what is tell us about your role there what is what is your role at uh at mosaic so my what is your role at uh at mosaic so my what is your role at uh at mosaic so my my title is called executive pastor of my title is called executive pastor of my title is called executive pastor of leadership and development and you'll leadership and development and you'll leadership and development and you'll notice it's not leadership development notice it's not leadership development notice it's not leadership development it's leadership and development and it's leadership and development and it's leadership and development and that's important uh because it's you that's important uh because it's you that's important uh because it's you know the focus is certainly about half know the focus is certainly about half know the focus is certainly about half my time is spent on leadership my time is spent on leadership my time is spent on leadership development which is with our staff uh development which is with our staff uh development which is with our staff uh with our elders building our eldership with our elders building our eldership with our elders building our eldership program uh 27 Elders in process right program uh 27 Elders in process right program uh 27 Elders in process right now to become uh Elder pastors Elders now to become uh Elder pastors Elders now to become uh Elder pastors Elders pastors uh and then the other side is pastors uh and then the other side is pastors uh and then the other side is the development side um which is really the development side um which is really the development side um which is really kind of project management so uh if you kind of project management so uh if you kind of project management so uh if you know if we're um relaunching our brand know if we're um relaunching our brand know if we're um relaunching our brand or relaunching a website I'm probably or relaunching a website I'm probably or relaunching a website I'm probably going to drive that team I'm hire the going to drive that team I'm hire the going to drive that team I'm hire the you know the people that we're doing you know the people that we're doing you know the people that we're doing Outsourcing with and and a mix of team Outsourcing with and and a mix of team Outsourcing with and and a mix of team members and outsourced um in our Capital members and outsourced um in our Capital members and outsourced um in our Capital campaign that we did last fall uh kind campaign that we did last fall uh kind campaign that we did last fall uh kind of brought together the team of uh of brought together the team of uh of brought together the team of uh mostly staff and then our um we hired mostly staff and then our um we hired mostly staff and then our um we hired jeras to work with this in that uh in jeras to work with this in that uh in jeras to work with this in that uh in our building project I'm you know our building project I'm you know our building project I'm you know bringing together the key uh bringing together the key uh bringing together the key uh stakeholders from the different stakeholders from the different stakeholders from the different departments to make sure that kids departments to make sure that kids departments to make sure that kids ministry area is being designed well and ministry area is being designed well and ministry area is being designed well and and that they're talking to the uh the and that they're talking to the uh the and that they're talking to the uh the architect about what they need and just architect about what they need and just architect about what they need and just kind of bringing all those pieces kind of bringing all those pieces kind of bringing all those pieces together so kind of large projects so together so kind of large projects so together so kind of large projects so there's you know a portion of my job there's you know a portion of my job there's you know a portion of my job each week is is going to be with people each week is is going to be with people each week is is going to be with people probably half my week is was with people probably half my week is was with people probably half my week is was with people and really the staff members and key and really the staff members and key and really the staff members and key leaders and then the other half is going leaders and then the other half is going leaders and then the other half is going to be spent you know on on you know to be spent you know on on you know to be spent you know on on you know what's the big thing we're working on what's the big thing we're working on what's the big thing we're working on right now and so uh I love that because right now and so uh I love that because right now and so uh I love that because my job constantly changes I get bored

my job constantly changes I get bored my job constantly changes I get bored really easily and so uh it's nice to be really easily and so uh it's nice to be really easily and so uh it's nice to be able to just kind of continually change able to just kind of continually change able to just kind of continually change and and also be the one who decides what and and also be the one who decides what and and also be the one who decides what is the next project that we're going to is the next project that we're going to is the next project that we're going to work on so um you know because I am in work on so um you know because I am in work on so um you know because I am in that second chair role I I get to be the that second chair role I I get to be the that second chair role I I get to be the one who says hey we're going to in order one who says hey we're going to in order one who says hey we're going to in order to bring the vision into reality this is to bring the vision into reality this is to bring the vision into reality this is what we need to focus our time on next what we need to focus our time on next what we need to focus our time on next and that's a lot of fun for me yeah it and that's a lot of fun for me yeah it and that's a lot of fun for me yeah it sounds really like you know you know you sounds really like you know you know you sounds really like you know you know you really live at the intersection of really live at the intersection of really live at the intersection of vision and reality right how do we kind vision and reality right how do we kind vision and reality right how do we kind of convert um ideas and make those into of convert um ideas and make those into of convert um ideas and make those into you know reality I'd like to kind of dig you know reality I'd like to kind of dig you know reality I'd like to kind of dig into that a little bit here a little bit into that a little bit here a little bit into that a little bit here a little bit more about that and then you know more about that and then you know more about that and then you know specifically kind of how you know what specifically kind of how you know what specifically kind of how you know what does that look like for you how is it does that look like for you how is it does that look like for you how is it that you are um you know helping that that you are um you know helping that that you are um you know helping that Vision come to reality in your church Vision come to reality in your church Vision come to reality in your church yeah that that that's really kind of my yeah that that that's really kind of my yeah that that that's really kind of my life calling is bringing Vision into life calling is bringing Vision into life calling is bringing Vision into reality when I was um first out of reality when I was um first out of reality when I was um first out of Seminary like a lot of guys I became a Seminary like a lot of guys I became a Seminary like a lot of guys I became a lead Pastor uh because kind of the lead Pastor uh because kind of the lead Pastor uh because kind of the leadership culture kind of drives people leadership culture kind of drives people leadership culture kind of drives people into the lead pastor role and uh and I into the lead pastor role and uh and I into the lead pastor role and uh and I did that and it was going fine but I I did that and it was going fine but I I did that and it was going fine but I I really realized that um God had gifted really realized that um God had gifted really realized that um God had gifted me more effectively to be a second shair me more effectively to be a second shair me more effectively to be a second shair leader and and it was kind of during leader and and it was kind of during leader and and it was kind of during that space that God really spoke to me that space that God really spoke to me that space that God really spoke to me in a I would say a pretty clear way and in a I would say a pretty clear way and in a I would say a pretty clear way and and said you know the the the job for and said you know the the the job for and said you know the the the job for the rest of your days on this planet is the rest of your days on this planet is the rest of your days on this planet is to come alongside of really highly to come alongside of really highly to come alongside of really highly gifted Communicator Visionaries who have gifted Communicator Visionaries who have gifted Communicator Visionaries who have a potential to to Really create a a potential to to Really create a a potential to to Really create a generational impact but who on their own generational impact but who on their own generational impact but who on their own lack the organizational ability to bring lack the organizational ability to bring lack the organizational ability to bring that Vision into reality and so uh that that Vision into reality and so uh that that Vision into reality and so uh that kind of summary there of of bringing

kind of summary there of of bringing kind of summary there of of bringing Vision into reality coming alongside of Vision into reality coming alongside of Vision into reality coming alongside of those crazy lead Pastor types who have a those crazy lead Pastor types who have a those crazy lead Pastor types who have a million ideas and only six of them are million ideas and only six of them are million ideas and only six of them are actually feasible but you gota you got actually feasible but you gota you got actually feasible but you gota you got to kind of Wade through them and figure to kind of Wade through them and figure to kind of Wade through them and figure out what's going to work and then come out what's going to work and then come out what's going to work and then come alongside of them and say oh great let's alongside of them and say oh great let's alongside of them and say oh great let's let's bring this thing into reality so let's bring this thing into reality so let's bring this thing into reality so you know what that looks like in in our you know what that looks like in in our you know what that looks like in in our church context is that um I'm capturing church context is that um I'm capturing church context is that um I'm capturing the vision of our lead pastor and really the vision of our lead pastor and really the vision of our lead pastor and really internalizing it so that it really internalizing it so that it really internalizing it so that it really becomes my really so that it's it's as becomes my really so that it's it's as becomes my really so that it's it's as clear to me as it is to him and if clear to me as it is to him and if clear to me as it is to him and if someone comes to me and says hey what's someone comes to me and says hey what's someone comes to me and says hey what's the vision of our church I can the vision of our church I can the vision of our church I can articulate it just as well as our lead articulate it just as well as our lead articulate it just as well as our lead Pastor can and maybe even in a different Pastor can and maybe even in a different Pastor can and maybe even in a different way for the people who don't think like way for the people who don't think like way for the people who don't think like a you know kind of in the clouds kind of a you know kind of in the clouds kind of a you know kind of in the clouds kind of guy so um so it's that and then and then guy so um so it's that and then and then guy so um so it's that and then and then saying okay well this is the vision how saying okay well this is the vision how saying okay well this is the vision how are we going to bring that into reality are we going to bring that into reality are we going to bring that into reality so I'll give you an example when I when so I'll give you an example when I when so I'll give you an example when I when I got to our church here a little under I got to our church here a little under I got to our church here a little under three years ago um you know I asked our three years ago um you know I asked our three years ago um you know I asked our lead pastor lots of questions but one of lead pastor lots of questions but one of lead pastor lots of questions but one of the questions I asked was just um hey the questions I asked was just um hey the questions I asked was just um hey what what does uh what are some of the what what does uh what are some of the what what does uh what are some of the biggest pain points in the church right biggest pain points in the church right biggest pain points in the church right now like what are what are the crying now like what are what are the crying now like what are what are the crying needs of the church and he said man if needs of the church and he said man if needs of the church and he said man if we don't get leadership development we don't get leadership development we don't get leadership development right like very soon it's going to SN us right like very soon it's going to SN us right like very soon it's going to SN us um because we've grown too fast and we um because we've grown too fast and we um because we've grown too fast and we don't have the depth of leadership that don't have the depth of leadership that don't have the depth of leadership that we need um and so so I said okay great we need um and so so I said okay great we need um and so so I said okay great and then that's really all he said on and then that's really all he said on and then that's really all he said on that point there was nothing else said that point there was nothing else said that point there was nothing else said on that point and then I went away and I on that point and then I went away and I on that point and then I went away and I built a leadership development strategy built a leadership development strategy built a leadership development strategy for our church um that was focused on for our church um that was focused on for our church um that was focused on both lay leaders and staff leaders uh

both lay leaders and staff leaders uh both lay leaders and staff leaders uh and and came back you know a couple of and and came back you know a couple of and and came back you know a couple of months later and you know walked him months later and you know walked him months later and you know walked him through the plan and said what do you through the plan and said what do you through the plan and said what do you think about this and he you know asked think about this and he you know asked think about this and he you know asked me to tweak this or alter that a little me to tweak this or alter that a little me to tweak this or alter that a little bit but for the most part it was like bit but for the most part it was like bit but for the most part it was like dude run with it go for it you know then dude run with it go for it you know then dude run with it go for it you know then and then I you know over the next couple and then I you know over the next couple and then I you know over the next couple of years began you know putting that of years began you know putting that of years began you know putting that into motion and and it's we've now got a into motion and and it's we've now got a into motion and and it's we've now got a leadership pipeline in place that uh leadership pipeline in place that uh leadership pipeline in place that uh just has a constant stream of leaders is just has a constant stream of leaders is just has a constant stream of leaders is coming online and what it's done is it's coming online and what it's done is it's coming online and what it's done is it's expanded our ability to Shepherd the expanded our ability to Shepherd the expanded our ability to Shepherd the church well and that's really the goal church well and that's really the goal church well and that's really the goal is that um we we we want to be able to is that um we we we want to be able to is that um we we we want to be able to Shepherd the people who come to Mosaic Shepherd the people who come to Mosaic Shepherd the people who come to Mosaic really really well and that requires really really well and that requires really really well and that requires training up a ton of shepherds so training up a ton of shepherds so training up a ton of shepherds so interesting now you know why don't you interesting now you know why don't you interesting now you know why don't you dig in maybe using that as an example dig in maybe using that as an example dig in maybe using that as an example around you know what is it that you're around you know what is it that you're around you know what is it that you're doing to pick apart a giant vision and doing to pick apart a giant vision and doing to pick apart a giant vision and make a really workable and realistic make a really workable and realistic make a really workable and realistic plan you know how are there been kind of plan you know how are there been kind of plan you know how are there been kind of common patterns through that that you've common patterns through that that you've common patterns through that that you've kind of been seen over the you know over kind of been seen over the you know over kind of been seen over the you know over the years as you've you've been able to the years as you've you've been able to the years as you've you've been able to do that at your church cuz I think we do that at your church cuz I think we do that at your church cuz I think we can all identify there's a lot of people can all identify there's a lot of people can all identify there's a lot of people that listen in are executive pastors that listen in are executive pastors that listen in are executive pastors leading from that second chair and we've leading from that second chair and we've leading from that second chair and we've all been in that scenario where you know all been in that scenario where you know all been in that scenario where you know the lead Pastor comes in and says we're the lead Pastor comes in and says we're the lead Pastor comes in and says we're going to do this giant thing and we're going to do this giant thing and we're going to do this giant thing and we're like okay we've got $12 and three people like okay we've got $12 and three people like okay we've got $12 and three people not sure how we're going to do that but not sure how we're going to do that but not sure how we're going to do that but let's figure it out I think you just hit let's figure it out I think you just hit let's figure it out I think you just hit on a really important point there which on a really important point there which on a really important point there which is the lead Pastor walks into a room and is the lead Pastor walks into a room and is the lead Pastor walks into a room and says we're going to do this awesome says we're going to do this awesome says we're going to do this awesome thing and and if if that if that time thing and and if if that if that time thing and and if if that if that time that he says that is the first time that that he says that is the first time that that he says that is the first time that the executive Pastor is hearing about it the executive Pastor is hearing about it the executive Pastor is hearing about it you have a major problem in

you have a major problem in you have a major problem in communication between your lead pastor communication between your lead pastor communication between your lead pastor and your executive Pastor good either and your executive Pastor good either and your executive Pastor good either the lp doesn't trust the XP or the XP is the lp doesn't trust the XP or the XP is the lp doesn't trust the XP or the XP is not gifted well enough for that role or not gifted well enough for that role or not gifted well enough for that role or or inappropriately for that role um so or inappropriately for that role um so or inappropriately for that role um so so my lead pastor and I we meet every so my lead pastor and I we meet every so my lead pastor and I we meet every week for at least an hour U uh one week week for at least an hour U uh one week week for at least an hour U uh one week it'll be with our full executive team it'll be with our full executive team it'll be with our full executive team the next week it'll be just he and I uh the next week it'll be just he and I uh the next week it'll be just he and I uh sometimes it's a two-hour meeting where sometimes it's a two-hour meeting where sometimes it's a two-hour meeting where we can dig into life a little bit more we can dig into life a little bit more we can dig into life a little bit more but but in those times I'm always asking but but in those times I'm always asking but but in those times I'm always asking him hey what is God speaking to you um him hey what is God speaking to you um him hey what is God speaking to you um what are there new visions that you feel what are there new visions that you feel what are there new visions that you feel like God's giving you for the church are like God's giving you for the church are like God's giving you for the church are there things that you're seeing uh and there things that you're seeing uh and there things that you're seeing uh and and then we're talking about that and so and then we're talking about that and so and then we're talking about that and so our lead Pastor um I don't mean this in our lead Pastor um I don't mean this in our lead Pastor um I don't mean this in a pejorative way but he knows better a pejorative way but he knows better a pejorative way but he knows better than to walk into a staff meeting with than to walk into a staff meeting with than to walk into a staff meeting with 30 or 50 people at right and say hey 30 or 50 people at right and say hey 30 or 50 people at right and say hey guys I've got a great new idea right now guys I've got a great new idea right now guys I've got a great new idea right now you guys all go make it happen no no you guys all go make it happen no no you guys all go make it happen no no that that's not the way we do things it that that's not the way we do things it that that's not the way we do things it is the way our church used to do things is the way our church used to do things is the way our church used to do things right it's not the way we do things right it's not the way we do things right it's not the way we do things anymore so now he's going to come to me anymore so now he's going to come to me anymore so now he's going to come to me and say hey I've got this idea I don't and say hey I've got this idea I don't and say hey I've got this idea I don't know what do you think and then I'm know what do you think and then I'm know what do you think and then I'm either going to say yeah we can do that either going to say yeah we can do that either going to say yeah we can do that now or we could it might be better to now or we could it might be better to now or we could it might be better to wait six months or you know what we we wait six months or you know what we we wait six months or you know what we we probably shouldn't do that at all probably shouldn't do that at all probably shouldn't do that at all actually we're just not going to do that actually we're just not going to do that actually we're just not going to do that one and he'll and he's going to submit one and he'll and he's going to submit one and he'll and he's going to submit to me just like I submit to him and to me just like I submit to him and to me just like I submit to him and occasionally he's going to say no man I occasionally he's going to say no man I occasionally he's going to say no man I really want do this right but the really want do this right but the really want do this right but the important point is we're talking ahead important point is we're talking ahead important point is we're talking ahead of time yes yeah so so then when we walk of time yes yeah so so then when we walk of time yes yeah so so then when we walk into a room a director's meeting or an into a room a director's meeting or an into a room a director's meeting or an all staff meeting and say hey here's an

all staff meeting and say hey here's an all staff meeting and say hey here's an idea that we're just starting to poke idea that we're just starting to poke idea that we're just starting to poke around uh into um he and I have already around uh into um he and I have already around uh into um he and I have already put some flesh on those bones right so put some flesh on those bones right so put some flesh on those bones right so we've already kind of I might have we we've already kind of I might have we we've already kind of I might have we might have been talking about it for might have been talking about it for might have been talking about it for three months I might have already put three months I might have already put three months I might have already put together some rough guidelines on how together some rough guidelines on how together some rough guidelines on how we're going to bring that Vision into we're going to bring that Vision into we're going to bring that Vision into reality I might have already brought reality I might have already brought reality I might have already brought that to our executive director of that to our executive director of that to our executive director of operations and said hey what do you operations and said hey what do you operations and said hey what do you think this is going to cost is it going think this is going to cost is it going think this is going to cost is it going to require another staff member is it to require another staff member is it to require another staff member is it going to require a $50,000 allocation in going to require a $50,000 allocation in going to require a $50,000 allocation in our budget is it going to require a our budget is it going to require a our budget is it going to require a million doll allocation in our budet million doll allocation in our budet million doll allocation in our budet what is this going to cost um from a what is this going to cost um from a what is this going to cost um from a payroll standpoint from a volunteer payroll standpoint from a volunteer payroll standpoint from a volunteer standpoint um how is it going to standpoint um how is it going to standpoint um how is it going to distract our distract our distract our team does that mean we do it now does team does that mean we do it now does team does that mean we do it now does that mean we wait until we get through that mean we wait until we get through that mean we wait until we get through this building project you see what I'm this building project you see what I'm this building project you see what I'm saying absolutely so it's really saying absolutely so it's really saying absolutely so it's really important for the the lp and the XP to important for the the lp and the XP to important for the the lp and the XP to be in those conversations be in those conversations be in those conversations super early um and and that way you know super early um and and that way you know super early um and and that way you know you what happens then is that the staff you what happens then is that the staff you what happens then is that the staff and the congregation feel like man not and the congregation feel like man not and the congregation feel like man not only am I excited about what's going to only am I excited about what's going to only am I excited about what's going to happen I also know what I'm supposed to happen I also know what I'm supposed to happen I also know what I'm supposed to do yes right um and in the I think often do yes right um and in the I think often do yes right um and in the I think often times the kind of the crazy LP types um times the kind of the crazy LP types um times the kind of the crazy LP types um get everybody excited because they were get everybody excited because they were get everybody excited because they were excited and then you know three weeks excited and then you know three weeks excited and then you know three weeks later you're like hey what are we doing later you're like hey what are we doing later you're like hey what are we doing about that thing I don't know I told you about that thing I don't know I told you about that thing I don't know I told you about it right I mean I don't know I about it right I mean I don't know I about it right I mean I don't know I guess you guys will figure it out well guess you guys will figure it out well guess you guys will figure it out well we're not not sure who's in charge so we're not not sure who's in charge so we're not not sure who's in charge so yes yeah and that's really the yes yeah and that's really the yes yeah and that's really the importance of the lpxb team uh importance of the lpxb team uh importance of the lpxb team uh especially in larger environments especially in larger environments especially in larger environments absolutely I think you know I've I've absolutely I think you know I've I've absolutely I think you know I've I've heard in the past and I've seen this you

heard in the past and I've seen this you heard in the past and I've seen this you know just as I've interacted with our my know just as I've interacted with our my know just as I've interacted with our my lead Pastor is there is this you know lead Pastor is there is this you know lead Pastor is there is this you know kind of long slow hunch that sometimes kind of long slow hunch that sometimes kind of long slow hunch that sometimes you know it takes a long time for ideas you know it takes a long time for ideas you know it takes a long time for ideas to germinate and then they they there's to germinate and then they they there's to germinate and then they they there's kind of a Tipping Point where they go kind of a Tipping Point where they go kind of a Tipping Point where they go from like oh that's an interesting idea from like oh that's an interesting idea from like oh that's an interesting idea to yes let's do that and you know what I to yes let's do that and you know what I to yes let's do that and you know what I hear you saying and just want to hear you saying and just want to hear you saying and just want to encourage and underline is a part of the encourage and underline is a part of the encourage and underline is a part of the role of the executive pastor and Lead role of the executive pastor and Lead role of the executive pastor and Lead Pastor is to be in dialogue through Pastor is to be in dialogue through Pastor is to be in dialogue through those long slow hunches so when it gets those long slow hunches so when it gets those long slow hunches so when it gets to the like no I think this is where to the like no I think this is where to the like no I think this is where God's leading us to go next that it's God's leading us to go next that it's God's leading us to go next that it's not the first time that we've you know not the first time that we've you know not the first time that we've you know talked about it that you know we've kind talked about it that you know we've kind talked about it that you know we've kind of been able to process those um of been able to process those um of been able to process those um together you know how else have you together you know how else have you together you know how else have you built trust between obviously trust built trust between obviously trust built trust between obviously trust relationship super important between a relationship super important between a relationship super important between a lead pastor and executive Pastor um what lead pastor and executive Pastor um what lead pastor and executive Pastor um what you know what would you say to an you know what would you say to an you know what would you say to an executive Pastor today that's listening executive Pastor today that's listening executive Pastor today that's listening in saying hey you know I need to work in saying hey you know I need to work in saying hey you know I need to work harder on building trust with you know harder on building trust with you know harder on building trust with you know my going both ways with my you know lead my going both ways with my you know lead my going both ways with my you know lead Pastor you know what does that look like Pastor you know what does that look like Pastor you know what does that look like for you yeah well I mean you can turn to for you yeah well I mean you can turn to for you yeah well I mean you can turn to any marriage book and get some good tips any marriage book and get some good tips any marriage book and get some good tips on this right right I mean to be honest on this right right I mean to be honest on this right right I mean to be honest you know if you don't if you're not you know if you don't if you're not you know if you don't if you're not spending enough time with your wife um spending enough time with your wife um spending enough time with your wife um she's going to be more likely to you she's going to be more likely to you she's going to be more likely to you know wonder what's going on right so a know wonder what's going on right so a know wonder what's going on right so a lot of these things are very similar so lot of these things are very similar so lot of these things are very similar so you know if that's why I meet with our you know if that's why I meet with our you know if that's why I meet with our lead Pastor every week so we meet every lead Pastor every week so we meet every lead Pastor every week so we meet every week and I think really time is the key week and I think really time is the key week and I think really time is the key um you know we're meeting together every um you know we're meeting together every um you know we're meeting together every week we're talking about stuff um you week we're talking about stuff um you week we're talking about stuff um you know there not a whole lot of secrets know there not a whole lot of secrets know there not a whole lot of secrets between us you know what I mean we if between us you know what I mean we if between us you know what I mean we if there's something going on in in my with there's something going on in in my with there's something going on in in my with my kids or with my wife like I'm sharing my kids or with my wife like I'm sharing my kids or with my wife like I'm sharing that with him and vice versa um we're that with him and vice versa um we're that with him and vice versa um we're really sharing each other's lives really sharing each other's lives really sharing each other's lives together um we go out on double dates

together um we go out on double dates together um we go out on double dates you know my wife and and his wife you you know my wife and and his wife you you know my wife and and his wife you know the four of us we go out on double know the four of us we go out on double know the four of us we go out on double dates probably three four five times a dates probably three four five times a dates probably three four five times a year um you know we're we're connecting year um you know we're we're connecting year um you know we're we're connecting you know throughout the week um just you know throughout the week um just you know throughout the week um just kind of staying really in in contact all kind of staying really in in contact all kind of staying really in in contact all the time um but then you know uh a great the time um but then you know uh a great the time um but then you know uh a great way to build trust is uh from the L from way to build trust is uh from the L from way to build trust is uh from the L from the XP to the lp a great way to build the XP to the lp a great way to build the XP to the lp a great way to build trust is um to keep a running list of trust is um to keep a running list of trust is um to keep a running list of things that you just need to keep him things that you just need to keep him things that you just need to keep him informed of so uh I'm a big Wonder list informed of so uh I'm a big Wonder list informed of so uh I'm a big Wonder list guy and I keep you know one of the lists guy and I keep you know one of the lists guy and I keep you know one of the lists in my Wonder list app is uh is you know in my Wonder list app is uh is you know in my Wonder list app is uh is you know just has our lead pastors initials on it just has our lead pastors initials on it just has our lead pastors initials on it and anytime there's something that comes and anytime there's something that comes and anytime there's something that comes up and I'm like oh I need to let Renault up and I'm like oh I need to let Renault up and I'm like oh I need to let Renault know about that our lead's name is Reno know about that our lead's name is Reno know about that our lead's name is Reno um I'll just drop that in that list and um I'll just drop that in that list and um I'll just drop that in that list and then in our next meeting I'll just kind then in our next meeting I'll just kind then in our next meeting I'll just kind of check off hey just so you know this of check off hey just so you know this of check off hey just so you know this is going on with this staff member FYI I is going on with this staff member FYI I is going on with this staff member FYI I dealt with this fire that we had to put dealt with this fire that we had to put dealt with this fire that we had to put out over here and you know it's all out over here and you know it's all out over here and you know it's all taken care of but just wanted you to be taken care of but just wanted you to be taken care of but just wanted you to be aware of it or hey the building aware of it or hey the building aware of it or hey the building Project's getting slow down by two weeks Project's getting slow down by two weeks Project's getting slow down by two weeks because of this U just I'm just kind of because of this U just I'm just kind of because of this U just I'm just kind of constantly keeping him in Loop so that constantly keeping him in Loop so that constantly keeping him in Loop so that then when somebody comes to him in the then when somebody comes to him in the then when somebody comes to him in the lobby and asks him a question he's not lobby and asks him a question he's not lobby and asks him a question he's not caught flat-footed right so he feels caught flat-footed right so he feels caught flat-footed right so he feels like I'm really keeping him in the loop like I'm really keeping him in the loop like I'm really keeping him in the loop on things even though for all intensive on things even though for all intensive on things even though for all intensive purposes I'm the one that's running the purposes I'm the one that's running the purposes I'm the one that's running the church you know what I mean preaching church you know what I mean preaching church you know what I mean preaching and casting vision and I'm running the and casting vision and I'm running the and casting vision and I'm running the church but he's always informed um so church but he's always informed um so church but he's always informed um so that's a really big one and then from that's a really big one and then from that's a really big one and then from the other direction from the lp to the the other direction from the lp to the the other direction from the lp to the XP Direction um uh building trust with XP Direction um uh building trust with XP Direction um uh building trust with me because that's just as important for me because that's just as important for me because that's just as important for me um is that again we've got an open

me um is that again we've got an open me um is that again we've got an open dialogue and he's informing me of things dialogue and he's informing me of things dialogue and he's informing me of things but what I found is that because I'm the but what I found is that because I'm the but what I found is that because I'm the more organized guy I have to kind of more organized guy I have to kind of more organized guy I have to kind of pull it out of him I have to kind when I pull it out of him I have to kind when I pull it out of him I have to kind when I sit with him I'll say hey have you had sit with him I'll say hey have you had sit with him I'll say hey have you had any meetings over the last week that I any meetings over the last week that I any meetings over the last week that I need to know about um is there anything need to know about um is there anything need to know about um is there anything thing any conversations that you've had thing any conversations that you've had thing any conversations that you've had with people that would be helpful for me with people that would be helpful for me with people that would be helpful for me to know about and I'll kind of pull that to know about and I'll kind of pull that to know about and I'll kind of pull that out of him and that's super helpful for out of him and that's super helpful for out of him and that's super helpful for kind of just creating trust between us kind of just creating trust between us kind of just creating trust between us and then just making it okay to to kind and then just making it okay to to kind and then just making it okay to to kind of poke into each other a little bit so of poke into each other a little bit so of poke into each other a little bit so I'll give you an example uh a couple of I'll give you an example uh a couple of I'll give you an example uh a couple of weeks ago he our lead Pastor made a weeks ago he our lead Pastor made a weeks ago he our lead Pastor made a decision that I didn't agree with he decision that I didn't agree with he decision that I didn't agree with he made it when I wasn't in the room and it made it when I wasn't in the room and it made it when I wasn't in the room and it affected me and so you know rather than affected me and so you know rather than affected me and so you know rather than getting upset about it and not talking getting upset about it and not talking getting upset about it and not talking about it for two weeks I just gave him a about it for two weeks I just gave him a about it for two weeks I just gave him a call hey man um heard about the decision call hey man um heard about the decision call hey man um heard about the decision you made in the the planning meeting you made in the the planning meeting you made in the the planning meeting earlier today that I at yeah what's up I earlier today that I at yeah what's up I earlier today that I at yeah what's up I said well here's why I think it might be said well here's why I think it might be said well here's why I think it might be a bad idea oh gosh I didn't think about a bad idea oh gosh I didn't think about a bad idea oh gosh I didn't think about that that's okay um well let's go with that that's okay um well let's go with that that's okay um well let's go with your way because I think your way is your way because I think your way is your way because I think your way is probably better okay great you know it probably better okay great you know it probably better okay great you know it was easy quick you know but that builds was easy quick you know but that builds was easy quick you know but that builds trust like we just talk about it we talk trust like we just talk about it we talk trust like we just talk about it we talk about it right exactly yeah don't go about it right exactly yeah don't go about it right exactly yeah don't go underground don't you know don't uh you underground don't you know don't uh you underground don't you know don't uh you know Harbor any of those issues you know know Harbor any of those issues you know know Harbor any of those issues you know short accounts for sure definitely you short accounts for sure definitely you short accounts for sure definitely you know let's change tack a little bit when know let's change tack a little bit when know let's change tack a little bit when we talk about getting the you know big we talk about getting the you know big we talk about getting the you know big part of an executive Pastor role is the part of an executive Pastor role is the part of an executive Pastor role is the team development side of it and you know team development side of it and you know team development side of it and you know obviously you've talked about that obviously you've talked about that obviously you've talked about that that's really a big piece of of what you that's really a big piece of of what you that's really a big piece of of what you do leadership development staff and do leadership development staff and do leadership development staff and otherwise um what when you think about otherwise um what when you think about otherwise um what when you think about getting the right people on the team getting the right people on the team getting the right people on the team getting the right people on you know the getting the right people on you know the getting the right people on you know the the bus and really putting them to work the bus and really putting them to work the bus and really putting them to work to implement uh the vision um you know

to implement uh the vision um you know to implement uh the vision um you know what would you share as kind of some what would you share as kind of some what would you share as kind of some best practices from you know that that best practices from you know that that best practices from you know that that point of view obviously there's a lot point of view obviously there's a lot point of view obviously there's a lot there you know kind of getting the right there you know kind of getting the right there you know kind of getting the right team members and make suring that team members and make suring that team members and make suring that they're you know positioned in the right they're you know positioned in the right they're you know positioned in the right place yeah well I think you know culture place yeah well I think you know culture place yeah well I think you know culture fit is is probably the most important fit is is probably the most important fit is is probably the most important thing thing thing excuse me um culture fit is huge and so excuse me um culture fit is huge and so excuse me um culture fit is huge and so I think that you know the trend in in a I think that you know the trend in in a I think that you know the trend in in a lot of um younger churches uh and newer lot of um younger churches uh and newer lot of um younger churches uh and newer churches is to hire from within uh there churches is to hire from within uh there churches is to hire from within uh there was just a report I think that Warren was just a report I think that Warren was just a report I think that Warren bird did on uh hiring practices and it bird did on uh hiring practices and it bird did on uh hiring practices and it it showed that um you know younger newer it showed that um you know younger newer it showed that um you know younger newer Church plants tended to hire from within Church plants tended to hire from within Church plants tended to hire from within more than than going outside and so we more than than going outside and so we more than than going outside and so we try to have you know most of our people try to have you know most of our people try to have you know most of our people that we're bringing into leadership that we're bringing into leadership that we're bringing into leadership roles staff roles uh be people that were roles staff roles uh be people that were roles staff roles uh be people that were hiring from within the church that may hiring from within the church that may hiring from within the church that may mean that they lack some of the mean that they lack some of the mean that they lack some of the educational credentials that that educational credentials that that educational credentials that that another staff might have uh they might another staff might have uh they might another staff might have uh they might have been have been have been homegrown um you they might have the homegrown um you they might have the homegrown um you they might have the only theological development they might only theological development they might only theological development they might have had happened at your church but you have had happened at your church but you have had happened at your church but you know that the the benefit there is that know that the the benefit there is that know that the the benefit there is that they really get your culture they're they really get your culture they're they really get your culture they're passionate about your church culture uh passionate about your church culture uh passionate about your church culture uh and so they you know they kind of and so they you know they kind of and so they you know they kind of already want to die for your church you already want to die for your church you already want to die for your church you know they already they already are know they already they already are know they already they already are bought in now interestingly I was the bought in now interestingly I was the bought in now interestingly I was the first guy in the church staff that was first guy in the church staff that was first guy in the church staff that was hired from outside like in 13 years and hired from outside like in 13 years and hired from outside like in 13 years and when I came here the staff was already when I came here the staff was already when I came here the staff was already 35 people right and I was literally the 35 people right and I was literally the 35 people right and I was literally the first guy who was brought in from first guy who was brought in from first guy who was brought in from outside the church um and so you know outside the church um and so you know outside the church um and so you know that was kind of a weird thing for the that was kind of a weird thing for the that was kind of a weird thing for the rest of the team yes figure out like rest of the team yes figure out like rest of the team yes figure out like here's this Outsider and he's telling us

here's this Outsider and he's telling us here's this Outsider and he's telling us what to do and um and so we had to kind what to do and um and so we had to kind what to do and um and so we had to kind of navigate that for a while but I I won of navigate that for a while but I I won of navigate that for a while but I I won them over and and showed them that I them over and and showed them that I them over and and showed them that I love the church just as much as they do love the church just as much as they do love the church just as much as they do and and so I think hiring from within is and and so I think hiring from within is and and so I think hiring from within is important when you do hire from with out important when you do hire from with out important when you do hire from with out you've got to make sure that as much as you've got to make sure that as much as you've got to make sure that as much as possible there's Vision alignment possible there's Vision alignment possible there's Vision alignment there's DNA alignment you know there's there's DNA alignment you know there's there's DNA alignment you know there's even some intangible things we just even some intangible things we just even some intangible things we just hired a new worship pastor and um and hired a new worship pastor and um and hired a new worship pastor and um and you know of course we did we didn't have you know of course we did we didn't have you know of course we did we didn't have a guy inside that that we thought was a guy inside that that we thought was a guy inside that that we thought was going to be the right fit and so we did going to be the right fit and so we did going to be the right fit and so we did the national search thing I chose not to the national search thing I chose not to the national search thing I chose not to hire a search firm for this one because hire a search firm for this one because hire a search firm for this one because I felt like I had enough contacts and um I felt like I had enough contacts and um I felt like I had enough contacts and um leveraged a contact uh at Austin Stone leveraged a contact uh at Austin Stone leveraged a contact uh at Austin Stone Church in Texas and uh you know asked Church in Texas and uh you know asked Church in Texas and uh you know asked asked them asked those guys if they had asked them asked those guys if they had asked them asked those guys if they had anybody that we ought to take a look at anybody that we ought to take a look at anybody that we ought to take a look at and um you know we're in the same and um you know we're in the same and um you know we're in the same network of churches Acts 29 Network and network of churches Acts 29 Network and network of churches Acts 29 Network and so uh the the worship Pastor there gave so uh the the worship Pastor there gave so uh the the worship Pastor there gave me a guy he said hey I think I think you me a guy he said hey I think I think you me a guy he said hey I think I think you ought to take a look at this guy and um ought to take a look at this guy and um ought to take a look at this guy and um as we started talking we found out that as we started talking we found out that as we started talking we found out that he actually used to live in the same he actually used to live in the same he actually used to live in the same town as our church oh wow his in-laws town as our church oh wow his in-laws town as our church oh wow his in-laws lived in the next town over oh wow so it lived in the next town over oh wow so it lived in the next town over oh wow so it kind of just created this really natural kind of just created this really natural kind of just created this really natural thing where you know even though he he thing where you know even though he he thing where you know even though he he wasn't you know he hadn't grown up in wasn't you know he hadn't grown up in wasn't you know he hadn't grown up in our church he hadn't been trained up in our church he hadn't been trained up in our church he hadn't been trained up in our church our church our church he had all these natural connections to he had all these natural connections to he had all these natural connections to our area and so we're always trying to our area and so we're always trying to our area and so we're always trying to look for those natural connections I look for those natural connections I look for those natural connections I before moving here from upstate New York before moving here from upstate New York before moving here from upstate New York uh I loved Orlando so I I was passionate uh I loved Orlando so I I was passionate uh I loved Orlando so I I was passionate about the city of Orlando for a decade about the city of Orlando for a decade about the city of Orlando for a decade before moving here so for me coming to before moving here so for me coming to before moving here so for me coming to Orlando is like of course I'd love to

Orlando is like of course I'd love to Orlando is like of course I'd love to come to Orlando right so um so again come to Orlando right so um so again come to Orlando right so um so again you're just looking for things that are you're just looking for things that are you're just looking for things that are going to make it a natural fit because going to make it a natural fit because going to make it a natural fit because hiring and firing is an expensive hiring and firing is an expensive hiring and firing is an expensive proposition absolutely just whether it's proposition absolutely just whether it's proposition absolutely just whether it's you know paying somebody who's not being you know paying somebody who's not being you know paying somebody who's not being effective whether it's going through a effective whether it's going through a effective whether it's going through a hiring a search firm and paying them you hiring a search firm and paying them you hiring a search firm and paying them you know a third of a a salary for the first know a third of a a salary for the first know a third of a a salary for the first year it's an expensive process and so uh year it's an expensive process and so uh year it's an expensive process and so uh the more you can get it right uh it's the more you can get it right uh it's the more you can get it right uh it's going to be cheaper for the church which going to be cheaper for the church which going to be cheaper for the church which makes us better stewards and it's going makes us better stewards and it's going makes us better stewards and it's going to be better for the team because it to be better for the team because it to be better for the team because it creates stability when would you say creates stability when would you say creates stability when would you say again do you have a rule of thumb around again do you have a rule of thumb around again do you have a rule of thumb around hiring internal or external what was it hiring internal or external what was it hiring internal or external what was it about is it just hey there isn't a about is it just hey there isn't a about is it just hey there isn't a candidate internally that that that kind candidate internally that that that kind candidate internally that that that kind of flipped the switch to hire you of flipped the switch to hire you of flipped the switch to hire you externally um you know have you seen externally um you know have you seen externally um you know have you seen anything around culture development on anything around culture development on anything around culture development on hiring internally or externally I think hiring internally or externally I think hiring internally or externally I think you have to play the cards that you're you have to play the cards that you're you have to play the cards that you're dealt and so uh you when you've got a dealt and so uh you when you've got a dealt and so uh you when you've got a role you look around at your internal role you look around at your internal role you look around at your internal team first um uh and you say is there team first um uh and you say is there team first um uh and you say is there somebody who is going to be a you know somebody who is going to be a you know somebody who is going to be a you know an 80% effective fit for this job inside an 80% effective fit for this job inside an 80% effective fit for this job inside the church that they may be already on the church that they may be already on the church that they may be already on your staff and you're going to your staff and you're going to your staff and you're going to transition them they may be a lay person transition them they may be a lay person transition them they may be a lay person um you know I believe you're at Liquid um you know I believe you're at Liquid um you know I believe you're at Liquid Church right y so you guys are a larger Church right y so you guys are a larger Church right y so you guys are a larger Church you probably experience the same Church you probably experience the same Church you probably experience the same thing that we do where uh you know if thing that we do where uh you know if thing that we do where uh you know if you're a larger Church in town um every you're a larger Church in town um every you're a larger Church in town um every Pastor who is kind of burned out like Pastor who is kind of burned out like Pastor who is kind of burned out like ends up at your doorstep um and and you ends up at your doorstep um and and you ends up at your doorstep um and and you know shows up at one of your services know shows up at one of your services know shows up at one of your services and and some of them you end up hiring and and some of them you end up hiring and and some of them you end up hiring right and so sometimes the you know it's right and so sometimes the you know it's right and so sometimes the you know it's kind of a mix of homegrown and you know

kind of a mix of homegrown and you know kind of a mix of homegrown and you know he was a pastor somewhere else and then he was a pastor somewhere else and then he was a pastor somewhere else and then he showed up with us and he was whatever he showed up with us and he was whatever he showed up with us and he was whatever working another job for two years we working another job for two years we working another job for two years we realized we really like this guy and he realized we really like this guy and he realized we really like this guy and he would make a great campus Pastor or would make a great campus Pastor or would make a great campus Pastor or whatever actually a story we did last whatever actually a story we did last whatever actually a story we did last year where we hired a guy who had kind year where we hired a guy who had kind year where we hired a guy who had kind of shown up at our doorstep ended up of shown up at our doorstep ended up of shown up at our doorstep ended up being a great staff member for us so I being a great staff member for us so I being a great staff member for us so I think I think you just have to really think I think you just have to really think I think you just have to really watch it um you you I think you'll feel watch it um you you I think you'll feel watch it um you you I think you'll feel it like if your staff if your staff that it like if your staff if your staff that it like if your staff if your staff that have been around for a while start to have been around for a while start to have been around for a while start to say things like man it just feels like say things like man it just feels like say things like man it just feels like we have a lot of Outsiders here right we have a lot of Outsiders here right we have a lot of Outsiders here right you know it just it feels like I don't you know it just it feels like I don't you know it just it feels like I don't know a lot of these people then you know a lot of these people then you know a lot of these people then you probably push the external too much but probably push the external too much but probably push the external too much but if on the other hand if you're if if if on the other hand if you're if if if on the other hand if you're if if it's starting to feel a little too it's starting to feel a little too it's starting to feel a little too inbred then hey you know maybe we need inbred then hey you know maybe we need inbred then hey you know maybe we need to bring some fresh eyes on this and I to bring some fresh eyes on this and I to bring some fresh eyes on this and I think it's important to have both um I think it's important to have both um I think it's important to have both um I think it's it's helpful to have both of think it's it's helpful to have both of think it's it's helpful to have both of them yeah definitely you know in the them yeah definitely you know in the them yeah definitely you know in the past I've used the rule of thumb that past I've used the rule of thumb that past I've used the rule of thumb that you know hiring internally really does you know hiring internally really does you know hiring internally really does Ensure stability so if you want to you Ensure stability so if you want to you Ensure stability so if you want to you know continue to stabilize a Ministry know continue to stabilize a Ministry know continue to stabilize a Ministry area that really internal you know area that really internal you know area that really internal you know internal hires do that yeah external internal hires do that yeah external internal hires do that yeah external hires are really positive when you want hires are really positive when you want hires are really positive when you want to radically shift a particular area in to radically shift a particular area in to radically shift a particular area in in your ministry and so we did that in in your ministry and so we did that in in your ministry and so we did that in our um children's ministry a number of our um children's ministry a number of our um children's ministry a number of years ago we we really needed to change years ago we we really needed to change years ago we we really needed to change that around and so you know had an that around and so you know had an that around and so you know had an external hire empowered this particular external hire empowered this particular external hire empowered this particular person to say well the reason why we're person to say well the reason why we're person to say well the reason why we're hiring you is to change things so right hiring you is to change things so right hiring you is to change things so right you are a change agent yeah we are you are a change agent yeah we are you are a change agent yeah we are hiring you to change this piece and and hiring you to change this piece and and hiring you to change this piece and and we need you know you to bring that in um we need you know you to bring that in um we need you know you to bring that in um you know for sure well this has been

you know for sure well this has been you know for sure well this has been it's been a great conversation so far it's been a great conversation so far it's been a great conversation so far just kind of as we pivot to you know two just kind of as we pivot to you know two just kind of as we pivot to you know two last questions before we jump into the last questions before we jump into the last questions before we jump into the lightning round you've actually written lightning round you've actually written lightning round you've actually written a book called defining the executive a book called defining the executive a book called defining the executive Pastor role can you tell us a little bit Pastor role can you tell us a little bit Pastor role can you tell us a little bit about that sure sure uh you know when about that sure sure uh you know when about that sure sure uh you know when when God kind of called me out of my when God kind of called me out of my when God kind of called me out of my lead Pastor role into the executive lead Pastor role into the executive lead Pastor role into the executive Pastor role um almost instantly I really Pastor role um almost instantly I really Pastor role um almost instantly I really felt like gosh I want to create more felt like gosh I want to create more felt like gosh I want to create more resources for or as you would say resources for or as you would say resources for or as you would say resources as a Canadian uh for for resources as a Canadian uh for for resources as a Canadian uh for for executive pastors you know so I I executive pastors you know so I I executive pastors you know so I I started digging into this role and I started digging into this role and I started digging into this role and I realized there was like two books for realized there was like two books for realized there was like two books for executive pastors right you you had executive pastors right you you had executive pastors right you you had leading from the second chair which is leading from the second chair which is leading from the second chair which is an awesome book uh there's another one an awesome book uh there's another one an awesome book uh there's another one that I won't mention because it's I that I won't mention because it's I that I won't mention because it's I don't think it's very good um and and I don't think it's very good um and and I don't think it's very good um and and I just kind of found myself at a loss for just kind of found myself at a loss for just kind of found myself at a loss for resources for XP um I found David resources for XP um I found David resources for XP um I found David Fletcher's website pretty quickly ex Fletcher's website pretty quickly ex Fletcher's website pretty quickly ex pastor. org um but but really um kind of pastor. org um but but really um kind of pastor. org um but but really um kind of immediately felt like gosh I think I immediately felt like gosh I think I immediately felt like gosh I think I might have something to contribute here might have something to contribute here might have something to contribute here in like a decade you know when I've got in like a decade you know when I've got in like a decade you know when I've got some experience under my belt and I was some experience under my belt and I was some experience under my belt and I was encouraged early on by an executive encouraged early on by an executive encouraged early on by an executive pastor at another church um he just said pastor at another church um he just said pastor at another church um he just said man I think you're talking about this man I think you're talking about this man I think you're talking about this role a little differently than most guys role a little differently than most guys role a little differently than most guys are and I think maybe you know God's are and I think maybe you know God's are and I think maybe you know God's gifted you to be a somebody who can be gifted you to be a somebody who can be gifted you to be a somebody who can be kind of a more um National voice on this kind of a more um National voice on this kind of a more um National voice on this and and maybe have a little bit of a and and maybe have a little bit of a and and maybe have a little bit of a different role uh in the leadership different role uh in the leadership different role uh in the leadership culture and so I said okay well right culture and so I said okay well right culture and so I said okay well right now I'm I'm young and stupid and and I now I'm I'm young and stupid and and I now I'm I'm young and stupid and and I need to get some experience under my need to get some experience under my need to get some experience under my belt but when I've got some more belt but when I've got some more belt but when I've got some more experience I'll do that and so just experience I'll do that and so just experience I'll do that and so just started taking notes on a lot of things started taking notes on a lot of things started taking notes on a lot of things and um began to develop some some and um began to develop some some and um began to develop some some writings and um so this is the first

writings and um so this is the first writings and um so this is the first book uh in a five-part series actually book uh in a five-part series actually book uh in a five-part series actually so it's it's called The Backstage Pastor so it's it's called The Backstage Pastor so it's it's called The Backstage Pastor series the first one is is really kind series the first one is is really kind series the first one is is really kind of on um kind of razor razor sharp of on um kind of razor razor sharp of on um kind of razor razor sharp focused on uh defining the role it's 100 focused on uh defining the role it's 100 focused on uh defining the role it's 100 pages long so it's a quick read um and pages long so it's a quick read um and pages long so it's a quick read um and it's designed to really feel like we're it's designed to really feel like we're it's designed to really feel like we're just kind of sitting sitting there just kind of sitting sitting there just kind of sitting sitting there having a cup of coffee together um the having a cup of coffee together um the having a cup of coffee together um the next one will be on the lead pastor and next one will be on the lead pastor and next one will be on the lead pastor and executive Pastor relationship so again executive Pastor relationship so again executive Pastor relationship so again it'll just be super focused on that I'm it'll just be super focused on that I'm it'll just be super focused on that I'm about halfway through that book right about halfway through that book right about halfway through that book right now so that should come out later this now so that should come out later this now so that should come out later this year um the next one will be a year um the next one will be a year um the next one will be a self-guided education for executive self-guided education for executive self-guided education for executive pastors really kind of an annotated pastors really kind of an annotated pastors really kind of an annotated bibliography on business books Ministry bibliography on business books Ministry bibliography on business books Ministry books but uh kind of you know if you books but uh kind of you know if you books but uh kind of you know if you find yourself as an XP in whatever find yourself as an XP in whatever find yourself as an XP in whatever Montana small town you know you can pick Montana small town you know you can pick Montana small town you know you can pick up this book and go man I can I can go up this book and go man I can I can go up this book and go man I can I can go through these books over the next three through these books over the next three through these books over the next three years and I'm going to get a pretty good years and I'm going to get a pretty good years and I'm going to get a pretty good education right right right right the education right right right right the education right right right right the next two are going to be um the next two are going to be um the next two are going to be um the executive pastor and his team and then executive pastor and his team and then executive pastor and his team and then the last one or I'm not sure the exact the last one or I'm not sure the exact the last one or I'm not sure the exact order that I'll write them all in but um order that I'll write them all in but um order that I'll write them all in but um the one of them is going to be the the one of them is going to be the the one of them is going to be the executive pastor and his soul and really executive pastor and his soul and really executive pastor and his soul and really kind of dealing with some of the unique kind of dealing with some of the unique kind of dealing with some of the unique um soul issues that are different maybe um soul issues that are different maybe um soul issues that are different maybe for an executive Pastor than they might for an executive Pastor than they might for an executive Pastor than they might be for a lead Pastor we're going to be for a lead Pastor we're going to be for a lead Pastor we're going to struggle with different sin issues I struggle with different sin issues I struggle with different sin issues I think uh we're going to struggle with think uh we're going to struggle with think uh we're going to struggle with different Pride issues we're going to different Pride issues we're going to different Pride issues we're going to struggle with different idols and so struggle with different idols and so struggle with different idols and so that we'll kind of focus in on that uh that we'll kind of focus in on that uh that we'll kind of focus in on that uh I'm not quite sure I'm I'm ready to I'm not quite sure I'm I'm ready to I'm not quite sure I'm I'm ready to write that one yet so time yeah I'm write that one yet so time yeah I'm write that one yet so time yeah I'm excited to kind of poke away at this

excited to kind of poke away at this excited to kind of poke away at this series over the next few years this is series over the next few years this is series over the next few years this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish the unseminary podcast stuff you wish the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary and we're going they taught in seminary and we're going they taught in seminary and we're going to jump into the lightning round just to to jump into the lightning round just to to jump into the lightning round just to kind of wrap up with a few questions kind of wrap up with a few questions kind of wrap up with a few questions here that we ask everybody that's uh on here that we ask everybody that's uh on here that we ask everybody that's uh on the show today super excited to have the show today super excited to have the show today super excited to have Phil Taylor with us from Mosaic Church Phil Taylor with us from Mosaic Church Phil Taylor with us from Mosaic Church uh in in Orlando around in and around uh in in Orlando around in and around uh in in Orlando around in and around Orlando um always nice to talk to Orlando um always nice to talk to Orlando um always nice to talk to somebody from the Sunshine State um you somebody from the Sunshine State um you somebody from the Sunshine State um you know Phil what is an online resource know Phil what is an online resource know Phil what is an online resource you're using these days uh that you're you're using these days uh that you're you're using these days uh that you're finding particularly helpful in your finding particularly helpful in your finding particularly helpful in your ministry sure I mean Evernote tracks ministry sure I mean Evernote tracks ministry sure I mean Evernote tracks everything for me what I really love everything for me what I really love everything for me what I really love about Evernote is that I can create a about Evernote is that I can create a about Evernote is that I can create a link uh to a note and then continue to link uh to a note and then continue to link uh to a note and then continue to update it so I just had an elder meeting update it so I just had an elder meeting update it so I just had an elder meeting last night and uh you know I I sent all last night and uh you know I I sent all last night and uh you know I I sent all of our elders about a week ahead of time of our elders about a week ahead of time of our elders about a week ahead of time the link to to the the agenda notes for the link to to the the agenda notes for the link to to the the agenda notes for that night and then over the course of that night and then over the course of that night and then over the course of the week any file that I wanted to the week any file that I wanted to the week any file that I wanted to include uh a bylaw adjustment or you include uh a bylaw adjustment or you include uh a bylaw adjustment or you know a p&l statement um I just could know a p&l statement um I just could know a p&l statement um I just could continue to drop those into the link and continue to drop those into the link and continue to drop those into the link and my guys knew hey I'll just keep checking my guys knew hey I'll just keep checking my guys knew hey I'll just keep checking this and it's going to keep on getting this and it's going to keep on getting this and it's going to keep on getting updated and then it it lives on and even updated and then it it lives on and even updated and then it it lives on and even you know the next day I can drop in the you know the next day I can drop in the you know the next day I can drop in the the notes from the meeting and so I I I the notes from the meeting and so I I I the notes from the meeting and so I I I find Evernote to be super helpful find Evernote to be super helpful find Evernote to be super helpful for for kind ofing and sheering people for for kind ofing and sheering people for for kind ofing and sheering people so that's great absolutely um what's say so that's great absolutely um what's say so that's great absolutely um what's say a book you've read I don't know in the a book you've read I don't know in the a book you've read I don't know in the last six months to a year that's that's last six months to a year that's that's last six months to a year that's that's had an impact on your thinking orist you had an impact on your thinking orist you had an impact on your thinking orist you know I've had a book on my shelf for know I've had a book on my shelf for know I've had a book on my shelf for probably two years that I just hadn't probably two years that I just hadn't probably two years that I just hadn't gotten around to reading and I just read gotten around to reading and I just read gotten around to reading and I just read it it's called make the noise go away it it's called make the noise go away it it's called make the noise go away and it's by uh I think it's called lar and it's by uh I think it's called lar and it's by uh I think it's called lar I've actually got it on my desk here

I've actually got it on my desk here I've actually got it on my desk here it's um Larry Lynn can't see that but it's um Larry Lynn can't see that but it's um Larry Lynn can't see that but anyway um Larry Lynn it's a business anyway um Larry Lynn it's a business anyway um Larry Lynn it's a business book uh but really it's a it's a story book uh but really it's a it's a story book uh but really it's a it's a story of a it's kind of written in a kind of a of a it's kind of written in a kind of a of a it's kind of written in a kind of a Patrick lenion you know narrative kind Patrick lenion you know narrative kind Patrick lenion you know narrative kind of style Fable kind of style and it's of style Fable kind of style and it's of style Fable kind of style and it's it's really a book about a first chair it's really a book about a first chair it's really a book about a first chair leader and a second chair leader in the leader and a second chair leader in the leader and a second chair leader in the business world trying to figure out how business world trying to figure out how business world trying to figure out how how their relationship works and I found how their relationship works and I found how their relationship works and I found it to be really helpful in the research it to be really helpful in the research it to be really helpful in the research for my second book so it's short it's for my second book so it's short it's for my second book so it's short it's easy um and I'd encourage uh any easy um and I'd encourage uh any easy um and I'd encourage uh any executive Pastor to pick it up and maybe executive Pastor to pick it up and maybe executive Pastor to pick it up and maybe even it with their lead Pastor cool uh even it with their lead Pastor cool uh even it with their lead Pastor cool uh what's another Ministry you're looking what's another Ministry you're looking what's another Ministry you're looking to these days that kind of inspires you to these days that kind of inspires you to these days that kind of inspires you yeah um I just spent some time at a yeah um I just spent some time at a yeah um I just spent some time at a church in Colorado um called um Red church in Colorado um called um Red church in Colorado um called um Red Rocks Church great church and uh I was Rocks Church great church and uh I was Rocks Church great church and uh I was out there um at a Potter's in which is a out there um at a Potter's in which is a out there um at a Potter's in which is a kind of a soul care development place in kind of a soul care development place in kind of a soul care development place in the mountains of Colorado uh and um I the mountains of Colorado uh and um I the mountains of Colorado uh and um I popped into Red Rock's church because my popped into Red Rock's church because my popped into Red Rock's church because my brother-in-law is is pretty involved brother-in-law is is pretty involved brother-in-law is is pretty involved there and it was great to learn from there and it was great to learn from there and it was great to learn from them and kind of see how they they just them and kind of see how they they just them and kind of see how they they just transformed a big box store uh into one transformed a big box store uh into one transformed a big box store uh into one of their campuses similar size to what of their campuses similar size to what of their campuses similar size to what we're doing we're transforming Big Box we're doing we're transforming Big Box we're doing we're transforming Big Box store into our our new largest campus store into our our new largest campus store into our our new largest campus and it was great to kind of see how they and it was great to kind of see how they and it was great to kind of see how they solve different problems but uh they've solve different problems but uh they've solve different problems but uh they've got some great stuff I really like how got some great stuff I really like how got some great stuff I really like how they kind of approach branding and kind they kind of approach branding and kind they kind of approach branding and kind of telling their story I think they tell of telling their story I think they tell of telling their story I think they tell their story really well so yeah they're their story really well so yeah they're their story really well so yeah they're a great place to learn from and then you a great place to learn from and then you a great place to learn from and then you know really for for kind of deeper Soul know really for for kind of deeper Soul know really for for kind of deeper Soul stuff the Potter in that I just stuff the Potter in that I just stuff the Potter in that I just mentioned man I've learned a lot from mentioned man I've learned a lot from mentioned man I've learned a lot from them I think a lot of times uh you know them I think a lot of times uh you know them I think a lot of times uh you know if you think of you know who who is the

if you think of you know who who is the if you think of you know who who is the Forgotten flock in the church it's Forgotten flock in the church it's Forgotten flock in the church it's typically the staff and so you know part typically the staff and so you know part typically the staff and so you know part of my role is to Shepherd the staff and of my role is to Shepherd the staff and of my role is to Shepherd the staff and kind of be their Pastor in a sense but kind of be their Pastor in a sense but kind of be their Pastor in a sense but then then you kind of go great then then then you kind of go great then then then you kind of go great then who's your pastor um and and so you know who's your pastor um and and so you know who's your pastor um and and so you know I think it's it's kind of hard to I think it's it's kind of hard to I think it's it's kind of hard to accomplish that inside of your church accomplish that inside of your church accomplish that inside of your church and so the Potters in is a group that and so the Potters in is a group that and so the Potters in is a group that we've contracted with um to uh really we've contracted with um to uh really we've contracted with um to uh really provide Soul care for our executive provide Soul care for our executive provide Soul care for our executive level uh leadership so our lead Pastor level uh leadership so our lead Pastor level uh leadership so our lead Pastor myself um and probably a couple others myself um and probably a couple others myself um and probably a couple others will pull into that so my wife and I will pull into that so my wife and I will pull into that so my wife and I went and spent a week there and uh had went and spent a week there and uh had went and spent a week there and uh had kind of a soul care intensive with kind of a soul care intensive with kind of a soul care intensive with Stephen and Gwen Steven's written a ton Stephen and Gwen Steven's written a ton Stephen and Gwen Steven's written a ton of books on Soul Care highly encourage of books on Soul Care highly encourage of books on Soul Care highly encourage um pastors to check out his stuff very um pastors to check out his stuff very um pastors to check out his stuff very cool if you could get 15 minutes with cool if you could get 15 minutes with cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive uh who would you want any leader alive uh who would you want any leader alive uh who would you want to get that with and to get that with and to get that with and why uh well since I'm here in the the why uh well since I'm here in the the why uh well since I'm here in the the backyard of Disney I'm gonna go with the backyard of Disney I'm gonna go with the backyard of Disney I'm gonna go with the Disney CEO uh Bob B Iger yeah Bob Iger Disney CEO uh Bob B Iger yeah Bob Iger Disney CEO uh Bob B Iger yeah Bob Iger yeah he's uh you know he's he's he's yeah he's uh you know he's he's he's yeah he's uh you know he's he's he's struggling a bit he only made $45 struggling a bit he only made $45 struggling a bit he only made $45 Million last year um you'll take the Million last year um you'll take the Million last year um you'll take the Tide though Tide though Tide though exactly so he you know he's he's exactly so he you know he's he's exactly so he you know he's he's transformed a lot there he's been on a transformed a lot there he's been on a transformed a lot there he's been on a kind of a buying spree and and bought up kind of a buying spree and and bought up kind of a buying spree and and bought up you know Lucas film and all sorts of you know Lucas film and all sorts of you know Lucas film and all sorts of things but I think you know because we things but I think you know because we things but I think you know because we we um serve so many uh what Disney calls we um serve so many uh what Disney calls we um serve so many uh what Disney calls their cast members it's what they call their cast members it's what they call their cast members it's what they call their employees because we serve so many their employees because we serve so many their employees because we serve so many cast members I'd love to just sit down cast members I'd love to just sit down cast members I'd love to just sit down with him and and and talk about that and with him and and and talk about that and with him and and and talk about that and maybe ask him hey why can't we rent any maybe ask him hey why can't we rent any maybe ask him hey why can't we rent any of your buildings where we're in a

of your buildings where we're in a of your buildings where we're in a holiday in just just out I want to rent holiday in just just out I want to rent holiday in just just out I want to rent one of your buildings for a campus you one of your buildings for a campus you one of your buildings for a campus you know but yeah he's he's a pretty smart know but yeah he's he's a pretty smart know but yeah he's he's a pretty smart guy so yeah that's amazing they're it guy so yeah that's amazing they're it guy so yeah that's amazing they're it really they're obviously an incredible really they're obviously an incredible really they're obviously an incredible uh company to you know keep an keep an uh company to you know keep an keep an uh company to you know keep an keep an eye out on I it'll be intriguing I'm a eye out on I it'll be intriguing I'm a eye out on I it'll be intriguing I'm a big Disney fan and it'll be interesting big Disney fan and it'll be interesting big Disney fan and it'll be interesting to see what'll happen in the transition to see what'll happen in the transition to see what'll happen in the transition as he starts to you know think about as he starts to you know think about as he starts to you know think about retirement and will there be an internal retirement and will there be an internal retirement and will there be an internal battle like there was when they've battle like there was when they've battle like there was when they've already decided a successor oh I didn't already decided a successor oh I didn't already decided a successor oh I didn't know that that's cool they already been know that that's cool they already been know that that's cool they already been named yeah great oh good well that's named yeah great oh good well that's named yeah great oh good well that's that's good it'll be interesting to to that's good it'll be interesting to to that's good it'll be interesting to to watch how they CU he's had an incredible watch how they CU he's had an incredible watch how they CU he's had an incredible run um you know as a leader for sure all run um you know as a leader for sure all run um you know as a leader for sure all right well I'm sure leading uh obviously right well I'm sure leading uh obviously right well I'm sure leading uh obviously takes a a lot at at mosaic when you just takes a a lot at at mosaic when you just takes a a lot at at mosaic when you just want to kick back relax kind of enjoy uh want to kick back relax kind of enjoy uh want to kick back relax kind of enjoy uh life a little bit uh what do you you life a little bit uh what do you you life a little bit uh what do you you know what do you do for fun what do you know what do you do for fun what do you know what do you do for fun what do you do just to kind of relax I love to run do just to kind of relax I love to run do just to kind of relax I love to run uh I love running half marathons and uh I love running half marathons and uh I love running half marathons and marathons um I love to kayak I'm marathons um I love to kayak I'm marathons um I love to kayak I'm actually staring out at Lake Louisa actually staring out at Lake Louisa actually staring out at Lake Louisa right now and um I would love to get out right now and um I would love to get out right now and um I would love to get out there on my kayak right now but uh um there on my kayak right now but uh um there on my kayak right now but uh um and then you know because we are we are and then you know because we are we are and then you know because we are we are uh in kind of the Orlando area my family uh in kind of the Orlando area my family uh in kind of the Orlando area my family loves going to theme parks and uh we get loves going to theme parks and uh we get loves going to theme parks and uh we get the a resident discount and we'll we'll the a resident discount and we'll we'll the a resident discount and we'll we'll head out to Legoland or Disney or head out to Legoland or Disney or head out to Legoland or Disney or Universal we enjoy doing that on the Universal we enjoy doing that on the Universal we enjoy doing that on the weekends so um it's a lot of fun very weekends so um it's a lot of fun very weekends so um it's a lot of fun very cool well I really appreciate you being cool well I really appreciate you being cool well I really appreciate you being on the show today if people want to get on the show today if people want to get on the show today if people want to get in touch with Mosaic or with you how can in touch with Mosaic or with you how can in touch with Mosaic or with you how can they do that yeah they can email me uh they do that yeah they can email me uh they do that yeah they can email me uh Phil T at thisis mosaic.org and that's Phil T at thisis mosaic.org and that's Phil T at thisis mosaic.org and that's our website thisis mosaic.org uh and I'd our website thisis mosaic.org uh and I'd our website thisis mosaic.org uh and I'd be happy to reach out I blog at be happy to reach out I blog at be happy to reach out I blog at Backstage pastors. org that's my website

Backstage pastors. org that's my website Backstage pastors. org that's my website where I post on a lot of just really where I post on a lot of just really where I post on a lot of just really practical stuff um about uh Ministry and practical stuff um about uh Ministry and practical stuff um about uh Ministry and just try to share whatever I'm working just try to share whatever I'm working just try to share whatever I'm working on just try to share it on there so very on just try to share it on there so very on just try to share it on there so very cool thanks so much for being on the cool thanks so much for being on the cool thanks so much for being on the show today Phil good to be here thanks show today Phil good to be here thanks show today Phil good to be here thanks thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary comom and we'll send you helpful comom and we'll send you helpful comom and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus training resources every week plus training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with Rich resources you can use connect with Rich resources you can use connect with Rich on Twitter at Rich Birch or through on Twitter at Rich Birch or through on Twitter at Rich Birch or through email rich unseminary decom don't forget email rich unseminary decom don't forget email rich unseminary decom don't forget to check out the show notes for this to check out the show notes for this to check out the show notes for this episode at unseminary dcom it includes episode at unseminary dcom it includes episode at unseminary dcom it includes links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks drop by iTunes and leave a review Thanks again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un again for tuning in to this week's un Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when Seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in taught in taught in seminary