Dan Zimbardi on Defining and Deploying A Unified Team Culture

I've been directly involved in the I've been directly involved in the launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site campuses through the churches I've led campuses through the churches I've led campuses through the churches I've led and half of them have been in movie and half of them have been in movie and half of them have been in movie theaters I'm convinced that every church theaters I'm convinced that every church theaters I'm convinced that every church leader should consider using a theater leader should consider using a theater leader should consider using a theater for your next campus or church plant for your next campus or church plant for your next campus or church plant they're flexible culturally relevant they're flexible culturally relevant they're flexible culturally relevant locations typically in the center of the locations typically in the center of the locations typically in the center of the community that you're trying to reach community that you're trying to reach community that you're trying to reach Regal is the only theatre company with a Regal is the only theatre company with a Regal is the only theatre company with a dedicated team of full-time consultants dedicated team of full-time consultants dedicated team of full-time consultants ready to help your church launch and ready to help your church launch and ready to help your church launch and succeed in a movie theater check out succeed in a movie theater check out succeed in a movie theater check out Regal theater church.com Regal theater church.com Regal theater church.com for more information on locations your for more information on locations your for more information on locations your church could use welcome to the seminary church could use welcome to the seminary church could use welcome to the seminary podcast are you looking for practical podcast are you looking for practical podcast are you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry ministry help to drive your ministry ministry help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling further faster have a sinking feeling further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't that your ministry training didn't that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey prepare you for the real world hey prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of you're not alone join thousands of you're not alone join thousands of others have pursuit of stuff that we others have pursuit of stuff that we others have pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle wish they had taught in seminary buckle wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this up and let's get started with this up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast everybody week's on seminary podcast everybody week's on seminary podcast everybody welcome to the on seminary podcast my welcome to the on seminary podcast my welcome to the on seminary podcast my name is rich I'm super excited that you name is rich I'm super excited that you name is rich I'm super excited that you decided to listen to us today I know decided to listen to us today I know decided to listen to us today I know you've got a lot going on at your church you've got a lot going on at your church you've got a lot going on at your church and we're honored that you would take and we're honored that you would take and we're honored that you would take some time out to listen in today today some time out to listen in today today some time out to listen in today today we've got Dan as Zimbardo from sandals we've got Dan as Zimbardo from sandals we've got Dan as Zimbardo from sandals Church he's the executive pastor there Church he's the executive pastor there Church he's the executive pastor there sandals is one of these churches that sandals is one of these churches that sandals is one of these churches that you need to be following that's a great you need to be following that's a great you need to be following that's a great church Dan welcome to the show thanks church Dan welcome to the show thanks church Dan welcome to the show thanks for having me rich yeah nice why don't for having me rich yeah nice why don't for having me rich yeah nice why don't you tell us about sandals tell us about you tell us about sandals tell us about you tell us about sandals tell us about the church you know the name may give the church you know the name may give the church you know the name may give away a little bit of your location but away a little bit of your location but away a little bit of your location but why don't you tell us about about your why don't you tell us about about your why don't you tell us about about your church you got it man sandals Church church you got it man sandals Church church you got it man sandals Church started twenty years ago in Riverside

started twenty years ago in Riverside started twenty years ago in Riverside California by Pastor Matt and Tammy California by Pastor Matt and Tammy California by Pastor Matt and Tammy brown and they started the church here brown and they started the church here brown and they started the church here in Southern California and started it in in Southern California and started it in in Southern California and started it in their living room you know that the their living room you know that the their living room you know that the first gathering was with eight people in first gathering was with eight people in first gathering was with eight people in their living room pastor Matt went out their living room pastor Matt went out their living room pastor Matt went out and knocked on I think about 3,000 doors and knocked on I think about 3,000 doors and knocked on I think about 3,000 doors in the neighborhood and you know it's in the neighborhood and you know it's in the neighborhood and you know it's just been incredible to see what God has just been incredible to see what God has just been incredible to see what God has done since then the church moved many done since then the church moved many done since then the church moved many many years moved around from location to many years moved around from location to many years moved around from location to location apartment complexes and you location apartment complexes and you location apartment complexes and you know borrowing space from other churches know borrowing space from other churches know borrowing space from other churches we were at a local university for for 10 we were at a local university for for 10 we were at a local university for for 10 years using the gym years using the gym years using the gym and some of their classroom space and and some of their classroom space and and some of their classroom space and then about six years ago when our lease then about six years ago when our lease then about six years ago when our lease was up at the University we finally was up at the University we finally was up at the University we finally found our permanent home and we moved to found our permanent home and we moved to found our permanent home and we moved to to where we're at today our main campus to where we're at today our main campus to where we're at today our main campus which is called Hunter Park and then which is called Hunter Park and then which is called Hunter Park and then from there six years ago we launched our from there six years ago we launched our from there six years ago we launched our first satellite campus and since then first satellite campus and since then first satellite campus and since then two more campuses so sandals is a church two more campuses so sandals is a church two more campuses so sandals is a church of currently four campuses we're seeing of currently four campuses we're seeing of currently four campuses we're seeing about 80 300 or so people come on about 80 300 or so people come on about 80 300 or so people come on weekends to each of those four campuses weekends to each of those four campuses weekends to each of those four campuses so the church has come a long way by so the church has come a long way by so the church has come a long way by God's grace and a lot of hard work and God's grace and a lot of hard work and God's grace and a lot of hard work and commitment and pastor Matt and Tammy commitment and pastor Matt and Tammy commitment and pastor Matt and Tammy have just done an amazing job to lead have just done an amazing job to lead have just done an amazing job to lead and serve our church very cool well I and serve our church very cool well I and serve our church very cool well I know sustaining and kind of keeping your know sustaining and kind of keeping your know sustaining and kind of keeping your culture aligned through that kind of culture aligned through that kind of culture aligned through that kind of growth even just a few changes that you

growth even just a few changes that you growth even just a few changes that you talked about their facility changes talked about their facility changes talked about their facility changes launching campus is kind of keeping launching campus is kind of keeping launching campus is kind of keeping things aligned obviously is incredibly things aligned obviously is incredibly things aligned obviously is incredibly important how have you done that what important how have you done that what important how have you done that what did that look like to kind of keep your did that look like to kind of keep your did that look like to kind of keep your team pushing in the same direction yeah team pushing in the same direction yeah team pushing in the same direction yeah I heard a couple years ago a great quote I heard a couple years ago a great quote I heard a couple years ago a great quote it's not mine someone said culture eats it's not mine someone said culture eats it's not mine someone said culture eats vision for lunch and I think it's so vision for lunch and I think it's so vision for lunch and I think it's so true you can put your vision statement true you can put your vision statement true you can put your vision statement on the wall you can put it on lots of on the wall you can put it on lots of on the wall you can put it on lots of documents you can talk about it but documents you can talk about it but documents you can talk about it but ultimately it's it's the culture and the ultimately it's it's the culture and the ultimately it's it's the culture and the culture to me is how people respond how culture to me is how people respond how culture to me is how people respond how people react how people treat one people react how people treat one people react how people treat one another do people feel like they can do another do people feel like they can do another do people feel like they can do their best work and and take a shot to their best work and and take a shot to their best work and and take a shot to people feel like they can fail and still people feel like they can fail and still people feel like they can fail and still be recognized and be okay and so culture be recognized and be okay and so culture be recognized and be okay and so culture is really sort of the outward expression is really sort of the outward expression is really sort of the outward expression of what's happening inside the church of what's happening inside the church of what's happening inside the church and the organization and so for us it's and the organization and so for us it's and the organization and so for us it's been a lot the last I'd say two to three been a lot the last I'd say two to three been a lot the last I'd say two to three years is about defining our culture now years is about defining our culture now years is about defining our culture now if you don't define your culture if you don't define your culture if you don't define your culture ultimately it just becomes a byproduct ultimately it just becomes a byproduct ultimately it just becomes a byproduct of maybe a few personalities it may be a of maybe a few personalities it may be a of maybe a few personalities it may be a byproduct of things that have happened byproduct of things that have happened byproduct of things that have happened in the church over the years and so in the church over the years and so in the church over the years and so we've spent the last two or three years we've spent the last two or three years we've spent the last two or three years really really defining our culture really really defining our culture really really defining our culture making sure our values are clear the making sure our values are clear the making sure our values are clear the attributes of our staff that make people attributes of our staff that make people attributes of our staff that make people successful and thrive successful and thrive successful and thrive environment so we've been focusing on environment so we've been focusing on environment so we've been focusing on defining that and now as we head into defining that and now as we head into defining that and now as we head into this next season we're really about this next season we're really about this next season we're really about evangelizing our culture throughout our

evangelizing our culture throughout our evangelizing our culture throughout our organization throughout our staff or organization throughout our staff or organization throughout our staff or licensed ministers and we have a whole licensed ministers and we have a whole licensed ministers and we have a whole team that's driving our culture team that's driving our culture team that's driving our culture initiatives forward to it to evangelize initiatives forward to it to evangelize initiatives forward to it to evangelize our culture and ultimately we want our our culture and ultimately we want our our culture and ultimately we want our culture to be the thing that really culture to be the thing that really culture to be the thing that really draws people to want to come and work at draws people to want to come and work at draws people to want to come and work at Sandals church and really do their Sandals church and really do their Sandals church and really do their life's work and and also allow us to life's work and and also allow us to life's work and and also allow us to retain our our staff as well and so we retain our our staff as well and so we retain our our staff as well and so we really see culture is in some ways as really see culture is in some ways as really see culture is in some ways as being a differentiator for us and when I being a differentiator for us and when I being a differentiator for us and when I say that I mean a differentiator in say that I mean a differentiator in say that I mean a differentiator in terms of where people will work there's terms of where people will work there's terms of where people will work there's lots of great churches in town there's lots of great churches in town there's lots of great churches in town there's lots of great marketplace opportunities lots of great marketplace opportunities lots of great marketplace opportunities there's lots of really incredible there's lots of really incredible there's lots of really incredible institutions and universities around and institutions and universities around and institutions and universities around and so we're trying to draw in really so we're trying to draw in really so we're trying to draw in really talented people people that love the talented people people that love the talented people people that love the Lord people that really are sold on the Lord people that really are sold on the Lord people that really are sold on the vision of being real with ourselves got vision of being real with ourselves got vision of being real with ourselves got another's and and so to do that you know another's and and so to do that you know another's and and so to do that you know there's many things that we have to do there's many things that we have to do there's many things that we have to do to accomplish those kinds of goals to accomplish those kinds of goals to accomplish those kinds of goals evvamean culture is a huge part of that evvamean culture is a huge part of that evvamean culture is a huge part of that and so and one of the things that we do and so and one of the things that we do and so and one of the things that we do just as a side note to understand how just as a side note to understand how just as a side note to understand how are we doing with our culture in terms are we doing with our culture in terms are we doing with our culture in terms of evangelizing that we do an annual of evangelizing that we do an annual of evangelizing that we do an annual staff anonymous survey and we ask your staff anonymous survey and we ask your staff anonymous survey and we ask your staff how are we doing with our values staff how are we doing with our values staff how are we doing with our values and with our culture and and then year and with our culture and and then year and with our culture and and then year over the year we compare the results to over the year we compare the results to over the year we compare the results to determine where are we heading or we determine where are we heading or we determine where are we heading or we heading up yeah and then the things that heading up yeah and then the things that heading up yeah and then the things that are not going so well from a culture are not going so well from a culture are not going so well from a culture perspective we build action plans around perspective we build action plans around perspective we build action plans around that and then drive that for the rest of that and then drive that for the rest of that and then drive that for the rest of that year very cool well you know what's that year very cool well you know what's that year very cool well you know what's let's kind of step back there and pull

let's kind of step back there and pull let's kind of step back there and pull apart a little bit of what you said I'd apart a little bit of what you said I'd apart a little bit of what you said I'd love to know you know give us a sense of love to know you know give us a sense of love to know you know give us a sense of how you went about defining culture I how you went about defining culture I how you went about defining culture I think you know for so many people you think you know for so many people you think you know for so many people you know it's about how do we take things know it's about how do we take things know it's about how do we take things that are implicit and make them explicit that are implicit and make them explicit that are implicit and make them explicit so what did you do how did you kind of so what did you do how did you kind of so what did you do how did you kind of listen and learn you know from your listen and learn you know from your listen and learn you know from your culture to say okay this is actually who culture to say okay this is actually who culture to say okay this is actually who we are this is you know this is they we are this is you know this is they we are this is you know this is they taking this you know big amorphous idea taking this you know big amorphous idea taking this you know big amorphous idea and saying okay here's actually how it and saying okay here's actually how it and saying okay here's actually how it articulated itself what did that process articulated itself what did that process articulated itself what did that process look like yeah I think it's a great look like yeah I think it's a great look like yeah I think it's a great question so twofold one is and and and I question so twofold one is and and and I question so twofold one is and and and I think this first part we sort of think this first part we sort of think this first part we sort of stumbled upon this I started thinking stumbled upon this I started thinking stumbled upon this I started thinking one day you know what are the one day you know what are the one day you know what are the things that pastor Matt and I are things that pastor Matt and I are things that pastor Matt and I are constantly talking about as we're constantly talking about as we're constantly talking about as we're evaluating people whether we're evaluating people whether we're evaluating people whether we're evaluating current staff or thinking evaluating current staff or thinking evaluating current staff or thinking about future hires what are the things about future hires what are the things about future hires what are the things that we talk about over and over and that we talk about over and over and that we talk about over and over and over again that are really important to over again that are really important to over again that are really important to us that we think are also important to us that we think are also important to us that we think are also important to the DNA and ultimately the success of the DNA and ultimately the success of the DNA and ultimately the success of the church and leading people to Christ the church and leading people to Christ the church and leading people to Christ and so I literally just sat there one and so I literally just sat there one and so I literally just sat there one afternoon and started pounding out these afternoon and started pounding out these afternoon and started pounding out these key ideas about the attributes of key ideas about the attributes of key ideas about the attributes of successful people people are thriving successful people people are thriving successful people people are thriving when I say accessible people are when I say accessible people are when I say accessible people are thriving in our environment and so I thriving in our environment and so I thriving in our environment and so I came up with things like a high motoring came up with things like a high motoring came up with things like a high motoring capacity your people that thrive in our capacity your people that thrive in our capacity your people that thrive in our environment they tend to have a high environment they tend to have a high environment they tend to have a high motor incapacity they they know when to motor incapacity they they know when to motor incapacity they they know when to go from second gear to fourth and fifth go from second gear to fourth and fifth go from second gear to fourth and fifth gear on their own yeah I mean they don't gear on their own yeah I mean they don't gear on their own yeah I mean they don't have to be told and and managed in that have to be told and and managed in that have to be told and and managed in that way and so I started defining things way and so I started defining things way and so I started defining things like that start defining agility like like that start defining agility like like that start defining agility like this was a key thing for us as a church

this was a key thing for us as a church this was a key thing for us as a church we're changing we're changing a lot for we're changing we're changing a lot for we're changing we're changing a lot for a couple reasons one our society and a couple reasons one our society and a couple reasons one our society and culture is changing so fast man I mean culture is changing so fast man I mean culture is changing so fast man I mean we're living in a time in a space where we're living in a time in a space where we're living in a time in a space where our society is just changing at an our society is just changing at an our society is just changing at an incredible rate right and at the same incredible rate right and at the same incredible rate right and at the same time pastor Matt and I were change time pastor Matt and I were change time pastor Matt and I were change agents as just the people that we are agents as just the people that we are agents as just the people that we are and so instead of apologizing day in and and so instead of apologizing day in and and so instead of apologizing day in and day out about all the change that's day out about all the change that's day out about all the change that's happening we said no no we're going to happening we said no no we're going to happening we said no no we're going to define that as part of our culture so we define that as part of our culture so we define that as part of our culture so we are and so do we are you know and so if are and so do we are you know and so if are and so do we are you know and so if you're going to if you're going to come you're going to if you're going to come you're going to if you're going to come and join us and join us on this mission and join us and join us on this mission and join us and join us on this mission you need to understand this is what you need to understand this is what you need to understand this is what we're about if you really struggle with we're about if you really struggle with we're about if you really struggle with agility you know maybe this isn't the agility you know maybe this isn't the agility you know maybe this isn't the best the best environment for you and so best the best environment for you and so best the best environment for you and so so we started identifying those types of so we started identifying those types of so we started identifying those types of things that were just common threads in things that were just common threads in things that were just common threads in our conversation you know we talked our conversation you know we talked our conversation you know we talked pastor Matt and I all the time Sunday pastor Matt and I all the time Sunday pastor Matt and I all the time Sunday afternoons or just one-on-one throughout afternoons or just one-on-one throughout afternoons or just one-on-one throughout the week and when I just started the week and when I just started the week and when I just started capturing what are those things that are capturing what are those things that are capturing what are those things that are so important to us so that was step one so important to us so that was step one so important to us so that was step one is identifying what are those attributes is identifying what are those attributes is identifying what are those attributes of staff that thrive here and then to is of staff that thrive here and then to is of staff that thrive here and then to is just really honing in our values what just really honing in our values what just really honing in our values what are our organizational values what are are our organizational values what are are our organizational values what are the things that that are so important to the things that that are so important to the things that that are so important to us and have it been important to the us and have it been important to the us and have it been important to the church all these years and so church all these years and so church all these years and so so we've created this document we call so we've created this document we call so we've created this document we call it our ethos document we've driven it it our ethos document we've driven it it our ethos document we've driven it into our how we review staff we've into our how we review staff we've into our how we review staff we've driven it into the orientation that we driven it into the orientation that we driven it into the orientation that we do with new hires so we're just do with new hires so we're just do with new hires so we're just constantly bringing people back to our constantly bringing people back to our constantly bringing people back to our ethos and then part of that I'd say

ethos and then part of that I'd say ethos and then part of that I'd say finally is just as we make decisions you finally is just as we make decisions you finally is just as we make decisions you know we're also reinforcing our values know we're also reinforcing our values know we're also reinforcing our values and our culture so that's how back to and our culture so that's how back to and our culture so that's how back to your question that's how it started your question that's how it started your question that's how it started mm-hmm you know we sat down and said mm-hmm you know we sat down and said mm-hmm you know we sat down and said what do we talk about over and over and what do we talk about over and over and what do we talk about over and over and over all right just start committing over all right just start committing over all right just start committing that to paper I think that's an easy that to paper I think that's an easy that to paper I think that's an easy exercise for four people to do if exercise for four people to do if exercise for four people to do if they're not sure hey where do I start they're not sure hey where do I start they're not sure hey where do I start with defining my culture what do you with defining my culture what do you with defining my culture what do you talk about over and over and over again talk about over and over and over again talk about over and over and over again that's important to you in your that's important to you in your that's important to you in your leadership very cool well let's talk leadership very cool well let's talk leadership very cool well let's talk about what you know how you then ended about what you know how you then ended about what you know how you then ended up propagating that through your culture up propagating that through your culture up propagating that through your culture what are some you talking about the what are some you talking about the what are some you talking about the ethos document what kind of what are you ethos document what kind of what are you ethos document what kind of what are you doing to kind of from a you know doing to kind of from a you know doing to kind of from a you know leadership development pipeline sort of leadership development pipeline sort of leadership development pipeline sort of point of view to kind of push that out point of view to kind of push that out point of view to kind of push that out and continue to make sure that you're and continue to make sure that you're and continue to make sure that you're focusing your people on that yeah well focusing your people on that yeah well focusing your people on that yeah well I'd say a couple things let me let me I'd say a couple things let me let me I'd say a couple things let me let me start with leadership you know for us start with leadership you know for us start with leadership you know for us you know as a really fast growing church you know as a really fast growing church you know as a really fast growing church we've got a handful of barriers to we've got a handful of barriers to we've got a handful of barriers to dynamic growth I mean one is finances we dynamic growth I mean one is finances we dynamic growth I mean one is finances we have to have a finances in a financial have to have a finances in a financial have to have a finances in a financial model we have to have you know standard model we have to have you know standard model we have to have you know standard consistent processes that drive consistent processes that drive consistent processes that drive excellence but one of the biggest areas excellence but one of the biggest areas excellence but one of the biggest areas and I think this is for most churches and I think this is for most churches and I think this is for most churches are adding lots of campuses that are are adding lots of campuses that are are adding lots of campuses that are growing significantly is having leaders growing significantly is having leaders growing significantly is having leaders in place to step into key roles right in place to step into key roles right in place to step into key roles right you know if you're going to add two you know if you're going to add two you know if you're going to add two three four campuses per year if you're a three four campuses per year if you're a three four campuses per year if you're a larger church you need campus pastors larger church you need campus pastors larger church you need campus pastors right right on your bench you need right right on your bench you need right right on your bench you need worship leaders you need kids ministry worship leaders you need kids ministry worship leaders you need kids ministry folks and and for a church like ours folks and and for a church like ours folks and and for a church like ours where culture and DNA is so important to where culture and DNA is so important to where culture and DNA is so important to us we can't just go hire someone you

us we can't just go hire someone you us we can't just go hire someone you know from down the street or across the know from down the street or across the know from down the street or across the country who may be an amazing leader country who may be an amazing leader country who may be an amazing leader right but they don't understand our right but they don't understand our right but they don't understand our culture and DNA and then put them in a culture and DNA and then put them in a culture and DNA and then put them in a new location to lead it and so for us new location to lead it and so for us new location to lead it and so for us we've created a leadership development we've created a leadership development we've created a leadership development system we call it Rogow leadership system we call it Rogow leadership system we call it Rogow leadership school ROG Oh real with ourselves God school ROG Oh real with ourselves God school ROG Oh real with ourselves God and others and and it's really been an and others and and it's really been an and others and and it's really been an amazing system it's a twelvemonth it's amazing system it's a twelvemonth it's amazing system it's a twelvemonth it's like a real high-end intern program yeah like a real high-end intern program yeah like a real high-end intern program yeah that's really focused on learning by that's really focused on learning by that's really focused on learning by doing learning leader doing learning leader doing learning leader ship by doing every one that comes into ship by doing every one that comes into ship by doing every one that comes into the two Rogo school is given a mentor the two Rogo school is given a mentor the two Rogo school is given a mentor they're assigned a ministry pathway the they're assigned a ministry pathway the they're assigned a ministry pathway the pathway is is where they're heading you pathway is is where they're heading you pathway is is where they're heading you know if we're going to hire them in a know if we're going to hire them in a know if we're going to hire them in a year are they going to be a campus year are they going to be a campus year are they going to be a campus pastor they can be a worship leader pastor they can be a worship leader pastor they can be a worship leader they're going to be a guest services they're going to be a guest services they're going to be a guest services person so they get into that pathway and person so they get into that pathway and person so they get into that pathway and then we start handing them real then we start handing them real then we start handing them real leadership roles projects and leadership roles projects and leadership roles projects and assignments they're not here I like to assignments they're not here I like to assignments they're not here I like to say they're not handing out bulletins at say they're not handing out bulletins at say they're not handing out bulletins at the door right that's not leadership the door right that's not leadership the door right that's not leadership while that's very important it's just while that's very important it's just while that's very important it's just it's not leadership and so we're giving it's not leadership and so we're giving it's not leadership and so we're giving them big things to work on one of our them big things to work on one of our them big things to work on one of our folks last year they led our folks last year they led our folks last year they led our organization through an entire reorg so organization through an entire reorg so organization through an entire reorg so one of the people in our Rogo school Wow one of the people in our Rogo school Wow one of the people in our Rogo school Wow worked side by side with me to reorg worked side by side with me to reorg worked side by side with me to reorg you know about 80 or so staff that was a you know about 80 or so staff that was a you know about 80 or so staff that was a huge project and he learned a lot about huge project and he learned a lot about huge project and he learned a lot about how to manage and drive change you know how to manage and drive change you know how to manage and drive change you know people really care about their titles people really care about their titles people really care about their titles ahead to turn here people care about ahead to turn here people care about ahead to turn here people care about their roles or responsibilities and we their roles or responsibilities and we their roles or responsibilities and we want them to care and so how you drive want them to care and so how you drive want them to care and so how you drive change across that is so key so he got change across that is so key so he got change across that is so key so he got to learn a lot about change management to learn a lot about change management to learn a lot about change management in that situation so all that say we've

in that situation so all that say we've in that situation so all that say we've created you know a really intentional created you know a really intentional created you know a really intentional programming system to identify leaders programming system to identify leaders programming system to identify leaders put them on our bench train them and put them on our bench train them and put them on our bench train them and ultimately release them as we're ready ultimately release them as we're ready ultimately release them as we're ready and we're growing four new campuses or and we're growing four new campuses or and we're growing four new campuses or whatever man we're ready to go and so I whatever man we're ready to go and so I whatever man we're ready to go and so I would say to churches in general that would say to churches in general that would say to churches in general that you need a leadership development system you need a leadership development system you need a leadership development system to train up whether it's pastors or to train up whether it's pastors or to train up whether it's pastors or ministers or other key areas of your ministers or other key areas of your ministers or other key areas of your church you need to do that and then church you need to do that and then church you need to do that and then through that Rogow school by the way I'm through that Rogow school by the way I'm through that Rogow school by the way I'm constantly reinforcing our ethos of our constantly reinforcing our ethos of our constantly reinforcing our ethos of our values what's into us in our culture so values what's into us in our culture so values what's into us in our culture so that they understand that especially if that they understand that especially if that they understand that especially if they're coming from other churches and they're coming from other churches and they're coming from other churches and spending a year with us so so I think spending a year with us so so I think spending a year with us so so I think that that is one and then two we have a that that is one and then two we have a that that is one and then two we have a team that meets it's the cultural team that meets it's the cultural team that meets it's the cultural project team and they are constantly project team and they are constantly project team and they are constantly developing a roadmap for how we're going developing a roadmap for how we're going developing a roadmap for how we're going to evangelize our culture how are we to evangelize our culture how are we to evangelize our culture how are we going to make sure our staff understands going to make sure our staff understands going to make sure our staff understands what our culture is about so one of the what our culture is about so one of the what our culture is about so one of the things are working on is recognition things are working on is recognition things are working on is recognition through our through our annual staff through our through our annual staff through our through our annual staff survey one things our staff said is you survey one things our staff said is you survey one things our staff said is you know I would like to be recognized more know I would like to be recognized more know I would like to be recognized more for for for work that I do and that's hugely work that I do and that's hugely work that I do and that's hugely important for all of us yep and and so important for all of us yep and and so important for all of us yep and and so they're working on a handful of they're working on a handful of they're working on a handful of initiatives to really inject recognition initiatives to really inject recognition initiatives to really inject recognition into our processes into our everyday into our processes into our everyday into our processes into our everyday life around the office and in our work life around the office and in our work life around the office and in our work in our ministry and in a couple months in our ministry and in a couple months in our ministry and in a couple months they'll roll those things out and so so they'll roll those things out and so so they'll roll those things out and so so we have a team that's focused on how do we have a team that's focused on how do we have a team that's focused on how do we drive all the things that are we drive all the things that are we drive all the things that are important to us from a cultural

important to us from a cultural important to us from a cultural perspective into our workflow into our perspective into our workflow into our perspective into our workflow into our day-to-day activities we man we've day-to-day activities we man we've day-to-day activities we man we've changed our performance reviews so changed our performance reviews so changed our performance reviews so that's driven a lot around our culture that's driven a lot around our culture that's driven a lot around our culture our staff meetings we don't disseminate our staff meetings we don't disseminate our staff meetings we don't disseminate information we talk about again things information we talk about again things information we talk about again things are important to us staff meetings like are important to us staff meetings like are important to us staff meetings like culture and that kind of stuff so so culture and that kind of stuff so so culture and that kind of stuff so so those are just at a real high level those are just at a real high level those are just at a real high level there's lots of practical things that there's lots of practical things that there's lots of practical things that we're doing but we have a team that's we're doing but we have a team that's we're doing but we have a team that's focused on driving culture and we've got focused on driving culture and we've got focused on driving culture and we've got a leadership development system as well a leadership development system as well a leadership development system as well it's helping to raise up our next it's helping to raise up our next it's helping to raise up our next generation leaders cool was there a generation leaders cool was there a generation leaders cool was there a portion of your culture like I think portion of your culture like I think portion of your culture like I think some of the when we're defining or when some of the when we're defining or when some of the when we're defining or when we're we're articulating cultures some we're we're articulating cultures some we're we're articulating cultures some of this is around defining what is true of this is around defining what is true of this is around defining what is true already and some of it is aspirational already and some of it is aspirational already and some of it is aspirational or it's it's it's a push towards or it's it's it's a push towards or it's it's it's a push towards aspirational it's like you know we're aspirational it's like you know we're aspirational it's like you know we're kind of heading in that direction but we kind of heading in that direction but we kind of heading in that direction but we want to clarify that the Future want to clarify that the Future want to clarify that the Future organization future Sandals is more like organization future Sandals is more like organization future Sandals is more like this than we are today with the part of this than we are today with the part of this than we are today with the part of this culture defining process that you this culture defining process that you this culture defining process that you said actually you know what it's a said actually you know what it's a said actually you know what it's a little more aspirational as a little little more aspirational as a little little more aspirational as a little more change oriented a little more like more change oriented a little more like more change oriented a little more like when we need to actually push forward in when we need to actually push forward in when we need to actually push forward in a new direction here what and what was a new direction here what and what was a new direction here what and what was that how did how has that gone as you that how did how has that gone as you that how did how has that gone as you tried to articulate that to people yeah tried to articulate that to people yeah tried to articulate that to people yeah I would probably started like a hundred I would probably started like a hundred I would probably started like a hundred thousand foot was that with that thousand foot was that with that thousand foot was that with that question and that is I've said this that question and that is I've said this that question and that is I've said this that were we're trying to create a world were we're trying to create a world were we're trying to create a world class culture yeah you know I was really class culture yeah you know I was really class culture yeah you know I was really fortunate in my corporate life for many fortunate in my corporate life for many fortunate in my corporate life for many years to work with companies like Google years to work with companies like Google years to work with companies like Google and and just incredible industry leaders

and and just incredible industry leaders and and just incredible industry leaders so I got to see how important culture so I got to see how important culture so I got to see how important culture was for them and how much that was a was for them and how much that was a was for them and how much that was a differentiator as they're trying to hire differentiator as they're trying to hire differentiator as they're trying to hire and retain talent that other you know and retain talent that other you know and retain talent that other you know high tech companies or other companies high tech companies or other companies high tech companies or other companies are trying to recruit and so I learned a are trying to recruit and so I learned a are trying to recruit and so I learned a lot about that and so we've said this lot about that and so we've said this lot about that and so we've said this goal of creating this a world-class goal of creating this a world-class goal of creating this a world-class culture in a world-class environment culture in a world-class environment culture in a world-class environment where people want to come and ultimately where people want to come and ultimately where people want to come and ultimately do their life's work and so that was do their life's work and so that was do their life's work and so that was you've probably heard the term B hag you've probably heard the term B hag you've probably heard the term B hag before a big hairy audacious goal set before a big hairy audacious goal set before a big hairy audacious goal set that that's been really our goal and so that that's been really our goal and so that that's been really our goal and so I think that that's the best way to I think that that's the best way to I think that that's the best way to answer the question is we're trying to answer the question is we're trying to answer the question is we're trying to set something that is so far especially set something that is so far especially set something that is so far especially in the church environment you know you in the church environment you know you in the church environment you know you know I don't know that churches think know I don't know that churches think know I don't know that churches think about being the absolute best when it about being the absolute best when it about being the absolute best when it comes to the environment where people comes to the environment where people comes to the environment where people work or thinking about culture and work or thinking about culture and work or thinking about culture and differentiating themselves and so we differentiating themselves and so we differentiating themselves and so we understand we have a huge task in front understand we have a huge task in front understand we have a huge task in front of us and part of that just because of us and part of that just because of us and part of that just because we're under-resourced we're under-resourced we're under-resourced you know we don't we don't have what you know we don't we don't have what you know we don't we don't have what does Apple have in the bank you know two does Apple have in the bank you know two does Apple have in the bank you know two hundred million dollars I don't even hundred million dollars I don't even hundred million dollars I don't even know what the latest count is I you know know what the latest count is I you know know what the latest count is I you know so for them and Google these guys have so for them and Google these guys have so for them and Google these guys have so much there so flush with cash they so much there so flush with cash they so much there so flush with cash they can do so many things to create this can do so many things to create this can do so many things to create this wonderful and amazing culture you know wonderful and amazing culture you know wonderful and amazing culture you know Google they had nap rooms right you Google they had nap rooms right you Google they had nap rooms right you could just go and take a nap you know could just go and take a nap you know could just go and take a nap you know people love working at Google and you people love working at Google and you people love working at Google and you can take a nap and so we we don't can take a nap and so we we don't can take a nap and so we we don't exactly have two hundred billion dollars exactly have two hundred billion dollars exactly have two hundred billion dollars of the fit sandal shirts yeah and so we of the fit sandal shirts yeah and so we of the fit sandal shirts yeah and so we have to be incredibly creative about how have to be incredibly creative about how have to be incredibly creative about how do we create an environment where the do we create an environment where the do we create an environment where the best designers that are out there from

best designers that are out there from best designers that are out there from across the country would say men what's across the country would say men what's across the country would say men what's really amazing about that place is their really amazing about that place is their really amazing about that place is their culture the work that they do the lives culture the work that they do the lives culture the work that they do the lives that are being changed how I can be that are being changed how I can be that are being changed how I can be challenged how can learn these things challenged how can learn these things challenged how can learn these things how I can be treated really well how it how I can be treated really well how it how I can be treated really well how it can be part of a family where I'm deeply can be part of a family where I'm deeply can be part of a family where I'm deeply known I mean all these things helped to known I mean all these things helped to known I mean all these things helped to define our culture and so I think yeah define our culture and so I think yeah define our culture and so I think yeah the best answer that question is we the best answer that question is we the best answer that question is we started with a really sort of audacious started with a really sort of audacious started with a really sort of audacious vision for our environment that we vision for our environment that we vision for our environment that we wanted to create and we're not there we wanted to create and we're not there we wanted to create and we're not there we understand that you know but we're understand that you know but we're understand that you know but we're building towards that we have a lot I building towards that we have a lot I building towards that we have a lot I think the right things in place and think the right things in place and think the right things in place and people envision an even strategy and people envision an even strategy and people envision an even strategy and that's going to get us that's going to that's going to get us that's going to that's going to get us that's going to get us there get us there get us there I just underline something you said that I just underline something you said that I just underline something you said that struck me that you were you know part of struck me that you were you know part of struck me that you were you know part of what you want to do is create a place what you want to do is create a place what you want to do is create a place where people can do their life's work where people can do their life's work where people can do their life's work that's a powerful idea that's a power that's a powerful idea that's a power that's a powerful idea that's a power for cultural driver that at the end of for cultural driver that at the end of for cultural driver that at the end of the day we want to gather people the day we want to gather people the day we want to gather people together to literally you're going to do together to literally you're going to do together to literally you're going to do the best work of your life here that the best work of your life here that the best work of your life here that sounds pretty good and it has amazing sounds pretty good and it has amazing sounds pretty good and it has amazing now it's great I think that you know now it's great I think that you know now it's great I think that you know that's a huge vision of people you know that's a huge vision of people you know that's a huge vision of people you know we talked about liquid church we talked we talked about liquid church we talked we talked about liquid church we talked about we wanted to be or they want to be about we wanted to be or they want to be about we wanted to be or they want to be the you know the best place in New the you know the best place in New the you know the best place in New Jersey for people to work and like Jersey for people to work and like Jersey for people to work and like people look at us like we're crazy right people look at us like we're crazy right people look at us like we're crazy right you're like what are you talking about you're like what are you talking about you're like what are you talking about like come on that's and we weren't there like come on that's and we weren't there like come on that's and we weren't there yet right we're not there yet um but you yet right we're not there yet um but you yet right we're not there yet um but you know if you don't set the goal if you know if you don't set the goal if you know if you don't set the goal if you don't say man we want to keep hacking don't say man we want to keep hacking don't say man we want to keep hacking away at that we want this to be an away at that we want this to be an away at that we want this to be an amazing place for people to work yeah amazing place for people to work yeah amazing place for people to work yeah for sure and you know I can just a for sure and you know I can just a for sure and you know I can just a couple dots what one you have to be couple dots what one you have to be couple dots what one you have to be intentional around around the vision intentional around around the vision intentional around around the vision there's there's just so many vision there's there's just so many vision there's there's just so many vision statements up on a wall and write statements up on a wall and write statements up on a wall and write businesses and churches around around

businesses and churches around around businesses and churches around around the world that that just stick there and the world that that just stick there and the world that that just stick there and there's no intentionality behind it and there's no intentionality behind it and there's no intentionality behind it and so we're really focused on being so we're really focused on being so we're really focused on being intentional around the things that we're intentional around the things that we're intentional around the things that we're doing to really achieve that where doing to really achieve that where doing to really achieve that where people are saying man this is this is people are saying man this is this is people are saying man this is this is the best place and part of that is the best place and part of that is the best place and part of that is asking our staff is this the kind of asking our staff is this the kind of asking our staff is this the kind of place where you can do your life's work place where you can do your life's work place where you can do your life's work in our survey and in the areas where in our survey and in the areas where in our survey and in the areas where they say no we start tackling that we they say no we start tackling that we they say no we start tackling that we start going after that and we were in a start going after that and we were in a start going after that and we were in a meeting yesterday actually reviewing meeting yesterday actually reviewing meeting yesterday actually reviewing last year's survey results and the last year's survey results and the last year's survey results and the analysis of it and starting to build our analysis of it and starting to build our analysis of it and starting to build our action plans for this year one of the action plans for this year one of the action plans for this year one of the things our staff said in this last things our staff said in this last things our staff said in this last survey was they would really love more survey was they would really love more survey was they would really love more investment in their personal development investment in their personal development investment in their personal development and so we're talking about how again how and so we're talking about how again how and so we're talking about how again how do we do that and do it really well do we do that and do it really well do we do that and do it really well with without having 200 billion in the with without having 200 billion in the with without having 200 billion in the bank right right right right right back bank right right right right right back bank right right right right right back to the resource challenge that is there to the resource challenge that is there to the resource challenge that is there and so and out to this to you know part and so and out to this to you know part and so and out to this to you know part of that vision for me is just born out of that vision for me is just born out of that vision for me is just born out of you know I left corporate America to of you know I left corporate America to of you know I left corporate America to come to sandals to come alongside pastor come to sandals to come alongside pastor come to sandals to come alongside pastor Matt Brown because I wanted to do my Matt Brown because I wanted to do my Matt Brown because I wanted to do my life's work you know I was entering in life's work you know I was entering in life's work you know I was entering in that the halftime of the second half of that the halftime of the second half of that the halftime of the second half of my life and career and what really was my life and career and what really was my life and career and what really was important to me is that I could do my important to me is that I could do my important to me is that I could do my life's work you know what God really is life's work you know what God really is life's work you know what God really is designed me for and and so I think out designed me for and and so I think out designed me for and and so I think out of that has come this and I feel like of that has come this and I feel like of that has come this and I feel like I'm doing that I feel like I'm doing I'm doing that I feel like I'm doing I'm doing that I feel like I'm doing what God has designed before I can't what God has designed before I can't what God has designed before I can't wait to get to work every day when I wait to get to work every day when I wait to get to work every day when I when I get out of bed I'm so excited to when I get out of bed I'm so excited to when I get out of bed I'm so excited to get into work and and I want that same get into work and and I want that same get into work and and I want that same feeling for everyone that works at feeling for everyone that works at feeling for everyone that works at sandals and serves at Santos Church mmm sandals and serves at Santos Church mmm sandals and serves at Santos Church mmm very cool and very cool well I know a

very cool and very cool well I know a very cool and very cool well I know a lot of times churches are the only thing lot of times churches are the only thing lot of times churches are the only thing they quantify is the number of people they quantify is the number of people they quantify is the number of people sitting in their services sitting in their services sitting in their services on Sundays and the amount of money that on Sundays and the amount of money that on Sundays and the amount of money that comes in in the offering plate how are comes in in the offering plate how are comes in in the offering plate how are you using metrics and you know you using metrics and you know you using metrics and you know dashboards that sort of thing to try to dashboards that sort of thing to try to dashboards that sort of thing to try to drive a cultural change or to drive drive a cultural change or to drive drive a cultural change or to drive improvement in you know at Sandals what improvement in you know at Sandals what improvement in you know at Sandals what does it look like for you guys yeah well does it look like for you guys yeah well does it look like for you guys yeah well I think I think one again culturally I I think I think one again culturally I I think I think one again culturally I was in our River School home-based was in our River School home-based was in our River School home-based meeting yesterday I was talking to the meeting yesterday I was talking to the meeting yesterday I was talking to the different groups I was meeting with and different groups I was meeting with and different groups I was meeting with and I was talking about measuring work I was talking about measuring work I was talking about measuring work actually and I said at the end of this actually and I said at the end of this actually and I said at the end of this year and asked them to write this down year and asked them to write this down year and asked them to write this down so at the end of this year how will you so at the end of this year how will you so at the end of this year how will you know if you and your team your ministry know if you and your team your ministry know if you and your team your ministry did a great job or not right how will did a great job or not right how will did a great job or not right how will you know that and if your answer is you know that and if your answer is you know that and if your answer is subjective like if you're in youth subjective like if you're in youth subjective like if you're in youth ministry I've had a lot of parents tell ministry I've had a lot of parents tell ministry I've had a lot of parents tell me that their son or daughters being me that their son or daughters being me that their son or daughters being discipled well that's a very subjective discipled well that's a very subjective discipled well that's a very subjective and I would say even an emotional and I would say even an emotional and I would say even an emotional statement and so I'm even in the church statement and so I'm even in the church statement and so I'm even in the church it's not just a market place but even in it's not just a market place but even in it's not just a market place but even in the church you can measure things and the church you can measure things and the church you can measure things and I've come to understand there's sort of I've come to understand there's sort of I've come to understand there's sort of two camps in the church around measuring two camps in the church around measuring two camps in the church around measuring and some that believe in measuring some and some that believe in measuring some and some that believe in measuring some that that don't and and I'm certainly in that that don't and and I'm certainly in that that don't and and I'm certainly in the camp that believes that measuring the camp that believes that measuring the camp that believes that measuring things is important you know Rick Warren things is important you know Rick Warren things is important you know Rick Warren and many others have said that every and many others have said that every and many others have said that every number is a story in a face and a soul number is a story in a face and a soul number is a story in a face and a soul and God cares about every single one of and God cares about every single one of and God cares about every single one of those numbers and so so for us it starts those numbers and so so for us it starts those numbers and so so for us it starts with it's key for our entire staff to be with it's key for our entire staff to be with it's key for our entire staff to be thinking about what to measure and thinking about what to measure and thinking about what to measure and actually start tracking and measuring actually start tracking and measuring actually start tracking and measuring things that are important to them and so things that are important to them and so things that are important to them and so and so we're trying to drive that we are and so we're trying to drive that we are and so we're trying to drive that we are driving that throughout our organization driving that throughout our organization driving that throughout our organization you know we've got top-level scorecards

you know we've got top-level scorecards you know we've got top-level scorecards that go up to our board we have a that go up to our board we have a that go up to our board we have a scorecard for our executive team as well scorecard for our executive team as well scorecard for our executive team as well inside of our departments they've inside of our departments they've inside of our departments they've developed different scorecards and developed different scorecards and developed different scorecards and measures and then part of that and I'll measures and then part of that and I'll measures and then part of that and I'll get into more specifics in a second but get into more specifics in a second but get into more specifics in a second but again again trying to draw a culture again again trying to draw a culture again again trying to draw a culture like metrics isn't something that one like metrics isn't something that one like metrics isn't something that one team does but if metrics and measuring team does but if metrics and measuring team does but if metrics and measuring is part of what we all do as it's is part of what we all do as it's is part of what we all do as it's important you know but then I would say important you know but then I would say important you know but then I would say a part of it is is identifying what you a part of it is is identifying what you a part of it is is identifying what you want to measure number one number two want to measure number one number two want to measure number one number two set setting goals against those three is set setting goals against those three is set setting goals against those three is tracking against those goals and then tracking against those goals and then tracking against those goals and then four is is basically the analysis that four is is basically the analysis that four is is basically the analysis that says what drove those results right you says what drove those results right you says what drove those results right you know whatever you're measuring if if know whatever you're measuring if if know whatever you're measuring if if we're if we're tanking what do we think we're if we're tanking what do we think we're if we're tanking what do we think what do we believe is driving the fact what do we believe is driving the fact what do we believe is driving the fact that we're taking that we're taking that we're taking if we're soaring what do we believe if we're soaring what do we believe if we're soaring what do we believe we're doing to make that measure of we're doing to make that measure of we're doing to make that measure of measurements or and so I think I think measurements or and so I think I think measurements or and so I think I think that's that sort of the broad spectrum that's that sort of the broad spectrum that's that sort of the broad spectrum of how you have to look at measurements of how you have to look at measurements of how you have to look at measurements and metrics and I think the fountain and metrics and I think the fountain and metrics and I think the fountain thing along that line is just making thing along that line is just making thing along that line is just making folks accountable for those things I folks accountable for those things I folks accountable for those things I mean it's really key in our scorecard mean it's really key in our scorecard mean it's really key in our scorecard meeting every month each person campus meeting every month each person campus meeting every month each person campus pastors get up and other directors get pastors get up and other directors get pastors get up and other directors get up and they present the results they up and they present the results they up and they present the results they present the drivers and they talk about present the drivers and they talk about present the drivers and they talk about where we're heading in the next month or where we're heading in the next month or where we're heading in the next month or quarter and man there's a lot of quarter and man there's a lot of quarter and man there's a lot of accountability knowing that they've got accountability knowing that they've got accountability knowing that they've got to get up each month and present that to to get up each month and present that to to get up each month and present that to the team right and our hope is that the team right and our hope is that the team right and our hope is that knowing they have to do that they're knowing they have to do that they're knowing they have to do that they're going to spend their month focusing on going to spend their month focusing on going to spend their month focusing on those those things that we have those those things that we have those those things that we have determined are most are most important

determined are most are most important determined are most are most important so so I think that's sort of the broad so so I think that's sort of the broad so so I think that's sort of the broad answer around measures and metrics and answer around measures and metrics and answer around measures and metrics and you know we're obviously measuring some you know we're obviously measuring some you know we're obviously measuring some of the things that you talked about but of the things that you talked about but of the things that you talked about but from a discipleship perspective we're from a discipleship perspective we're from a discipleship perspective we're measuring people that are in our three measuring people that are in our three measuring people that are in our three environments so one is weekend environments so one is weekend environments so one is weekend attendance - is it is in groups we have attendance - is it is in groups we have attendance - is it is in groups we have a lot of different kinds of groups and a lot of different kinds of groups and a lot of different kinds of groups and then three people have joined teams that then three people have joined teams that then three people have joined teams that are serving those are our three key are serving those are our three key are serving those are our three key discipleship environments so getting discipleship environments so getting discipleship environments so getting people in there how many are we growing people in there how many are we growing people in there how many are we growing are we not growing our next set of are we not growing our next set of are we not growing our next set of measures is going to be around health in measures is going to be around health in measures is going to be around health in those three areas so are people healthy those three areas so are people healthy those three areas so are people healthy in our people growing and we're going to in our people growing and we're going to in our people growing and we're going to probably do that through through surveys probably do that through through surveys probably do that through through surveys you know in asking them if that's you know in asking them if that's you know in asking them if that's happening we've got other measures and happening we've got other measures and happening we've got other measures and metrics where we go out to parents and metrics where we go out to parents and metrics where we go out to parents and we ask them to give us their their we ask them to give us their their we ask them to give us their their feedback we tally their feedback and feedback we tally their feedback and feedback we tally their feedback and determine if if protip rogue ramming is determine if if protip rogue ramming is determine if if protip rogue ramming is hitting the mark or their kids growing hitting the mark or their kids growing hitting the mark or their kids growing in Christ or the growth being real and in Christ or the growth being real and in Christ or the growth being real and so we measure a lot of those kinds of so we measure a lot of those kinds of so we measure a lot of those kinds of things as well for us organizational things as well for us organizational things as well for us organizational health this is one of the things that's health this is one of the things that's health this is one of the things that's near and dear to me near and dear to me near and dear to me we measure organizational health right we measure organizational health right we measure organizational health right and we do that by asking our staff are and we do that by asking our staff are and we do that by asking our staff are are we healthy we have the same I don't are we healthy we have the same I don't are we healthy we have the same I don't know think it's 13 questions we ask know think it's 13 questions we ask know think it's 13 questions we ask every year and then we'll add one or two every year and then we'll add one or two every year and then we'll add one or two or three new ones and then again we or three new ones and then again we or three new ones and then again we compare those year over a year because I compare those year over a year because I compare those year over a year because I don't want to say to our board or to don't want to say to our board or to don't want to say to our board or to other churches that I've talked to that other churches that I've talked to that other churches that I've talked to that we're really healthy and then say that we're really healthy and then say that we're really healthy and then say that you know they say well how do you know you know they say well how do you know you know they say well how do you know that well I talked to staff and I feel that well I talked to staff and I feel that well I talked to staff and I feel like like like yeah what would I say is I'll say yeah what would I say is I'll say yeah what would I say is I'll say something like that and then I'll say

something like that and then I'll say something like that and then I'll say but here are the results here's what our but here are the results here's what our but here are the results here's what our staff is telling us an anonymous survey staff is telling us an anonymous survey staff is telling us an anonymous survey we drill down into the department level we drill down into the department level we drill down into the department level so that's another thing I think is so that's another thing I think is so that's another thing I think is important is drilling down in your data important is drilling down in your data important is drilling down in your data to make sure you understand you know to make sure you understand you know to make sure you understand you know maybe across 80 percent of the maybe across 80 percent of the maybe across 80 percent of the organization's really healthy but this organization's really healthy but this organization's really healthy but this one ministry department is not we need one ministry department is not we need one ministry department is not we need to know that you know and so that we can to know that you know and so that we can to know that you know and so that we can work with that leader and coach them etc work with that leader and coach them etc work with that leader and coach them etc so that's how we think about measures so that's how we think about measures so that's how we think about measures and metrics the clothes anything else and metrics the clothes anything else and metrics the clothes anything else you want to share with us before we move you want to share with us before we move you want to share with us before we move on with the rest of the episode I think on with the rest of the episode I think on with the rest of the episode I think that the something that's been on my that the something that's been on my that the something that's been on my heart and I've talked about a lot and I heart and I've talked about a lot and I heart and I've talked about a lot and I think this for me feels like a good form think this for me feels like a good form think this for me feels like a good form to share is just going back to this idea to share is just going back to this idea to share is just going back to this idea of agility I really believe that you of agility I really believe that you of agility I really believe that you know things are changing so fast you know things are changing so fast you know things are changing so fast you could literally go to start college now could literally go to start college now could literally go to start college now as a freshman in college learn a as a freshman in college learn a as a freshman in college learn a programming language and come out the programming language and come out the programming language and come out the other end in four or five years and that other end in four or five years and that other end in four or five years and that language is either obsolete or not the language is either obsolete or not the language is either obsolete or not the hot programming language I add a true hot programming language I add a true hot programming language I add a true yep we are moving so fast rich I really yep we are moving so fast rich I really yep we are moving so fast rich I really believe that and and I think leaders in believe that and and I think leaders in believe that and and I think leaders in the marketplace and in the church they the marketplace and in the church they the marketplace and in the church they have to grow and agility there's this have to grow and agility there's this have to grow and agility there's this great book that I've been reading they great book that I've been reading they great book that I've been reading they define agility as knowing what to do define agility as knowing what to do define agility as knowing what to do when you don't know what to do knowing when you don't know what to do knowing when you don't know what to do knowing what to do when you don't know what to what to do when you don't know what to what to do when you don't know what to do you know we got a call recently from do you know we got a call recently from do you know we got a call recently from a guy that that loves sandals been a guy that that loves sandals been a guy that that loves sandals been watching online for four years and he watching online for four years and he watching online for four years and he wants to start a sandals church in wants to start a sandals church in wants to start a sandals church in Arkansas you know we're in Southern Arkansas you know we're in Southern Arkansas you know we're in Southern California right and I have no idea if California right and I have no idea if California right and I have no idea if we're going to do this you know we we're going to do this you know we we're going to do this you know we really may not but we'll pray into it really may not but we'll pray into it really may not but we'll pray into it will talk about etc but let's just say

will talk about etc but let's just say will talk about etc but let's just say for a second we decide that's something for a second we decide that's something for a second we decide that's something that we want to do we believe God is that we want to do we believe God is that we want to do we believe God is leading us too we don't know how to do leading us too we don't know how to do leading us too we don't know how to do that you know we've never we've never that you know we've never we've never that you know we've never we've never ran started and ran a church that's ran started and ran a church that's ran started and ran a church that's thousands of miles away we don't know thousands of miles away we don't know thousands of miles away we don't know what to do but but agility says we need what to do but but agility says we need what to do but but agility says we need to know what to do and figure out what to know what to do and figure out what to know what to do and figure out what to do quickly right because at sandals to do quickly right because at sandals to do quickly right because at sandals church just like in culture we're church just like in culture we're church just like in culture we're constantly faced with new things constantly faced with new things constantly faced with new things constantly faced with new things because constantly faced with new things because constantly faced with new things because the church is changing and evolving the church is changing and evolving the church is changing and evolving because society is changing and evolving because society is changing and evolving because society is changing and evolving so what I would say the leaders and so what I would say the leaders and so what I would say the leaders and pastors is growing in agility it should pastors is growing in agility it should pastors is growing in agility it should be a key thing for for all of us be a key thing for for all of us be a key thing for for all of us really God's Word doesn't change God really God's Word doesn't change God really God's Word doesn't change God that word stays the same so it's not that word stays the same so it's not that word stays the same so it's not about that it's about all the things about that it's about all the things about that it's about all the things that are happening around us and inside that are happening around us and inside that are happening around us and inside of our church each generation there's so of our church each generation there's so of our church each generation there's so many people picking on Millennials right many people picking on Millennials right many people picking on Millennials right now which i think is pretty pretty now which i think is pretty pretty now which i think is pretty pretty uncool but but you know in what I was in uncool but but you know in what I was in uncool but but you know in what I was in my 20s and 30s as a gen Xer you know my my 20s and 30s as a gen Xer you know my my 20s and 30s as a gen Xer you know my generation was being picked on yep and generation was being picked on yep and generation was being picked on yep and the reality is each generation presents the reality is each generation presents the reality is each generation presents something new and so I don't want to something new and so I don't want to something new and so I don't want to pick on this current generation I don't pick on this current generation I don't pick on this current generation I don't even like to use the word millennial even like to use the word millennial even like to use the word millennial because I think it's starting to carry because I think it's starting to carry because I think it's starting to carry this bad tone to it right but this this bad tone to it right but this this bad tone to it right but this generation is coming up like I want to generation is coming up like I want to generation is coming up like I want to relate well to them I want to serve them relate well to them I want to serve them relate well to them I want to serve them I want to help them I want to be their I want to help them I want to be their I want to help them I want to be their helper and so I need to be agile myself helper and so I need to be agile myself helper and so I need to be agile myself because they're dealing with things because they're dealing with things because they're dealing with things differently and it's new to me and so I differently and it's new to me and so I differently and it's new to me and so I just think agility and the church should just think agility and the church should just think agility and the church should be something that churches especially be something that churches especially be something that churches especially churches that that want to grow and that churches that that want to grow and that churches that that want to grow and that are growing should be looking to drive are growing should be looking to drive are growing should be looking to drive throughout the organization their church

throughout the organization their church throughout the organization their church this is the unfeminine podcast stuff you this is the unfeminine podcast stuff you this is the unfeminine podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're wish they taught in seminary well we're wish they taught in seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning round going to jump into the lightning round going to jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask that part of the episode where we ask that part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody that's on similar questions of everybody that's on similar questions of everybody that's on the episode super honored to have Dan the episode super honored to have Dan the episode super honored to have Dan with us he's executive pastor at Sandals with us he's executive pastor at Sandals with us he's executive pastor at Sandals church dan what's a book I think I know church dan what's a book I think I know church dan what's a book I think I know where the answer is going on this and where the answer is going on this and where the answer is going on this and you've read in the last six months you've read in the last six months you've read in the last six months that's shaping or thinking or ministry that's shaping or thinking or ministry that's shaping or thinking or ministry that's great yeah definitely becoming an that's great yeah definitely becoming an that's great yeah definitely becoming an agile leader yeah that's the book that I agile leader yeah that's the book that I agile leader yeah that's the book that I was talking about it's a it's a great was talking about it's a it's a great was talking about it's a it's a great book for me because it's a short read book for me because it's a short read book for me because it's a short read rich I have a hard time getting through rich I have a hard time getting through rich I have a hard time getting through a book that's more than the ten pages a book that's more than the ten pages a book that's more than the ten pages and has nine of them with victors so no and has nine of them with victors so no and has nine of them with victors so no it's a great book I'd really recommend it's a great book I'd really recommend it's a great book I'd really recommend it again it's a short read I think you it again it's a short read I think you it again it's a short read I think you can find it out there's an incredible can find it out there's an incredible can find it out there's an incredible Leadership Institute called Korn ferry I Leadership Institute called Korn ferry I Leadership Institute called Korn ferry I believe they're out of the UK they're a believe they're out of the UK they're a believe they're out of the UK they're a secular organization but I highly they secular organization but I highly they secular organization but I highly they have so many incredible incredible have so many incredible incredible have so many incredible incredible resources this particular book is out resources this particular book is out resources this particular book is out there I'm sure you can pick it up on there I'm sure you can pick it up on there I'm sure you can pick it up on Amazon as well but I'd recommend people Amazon as well but I'd recommend people Amazon as well but I'd recommend people go to Korn ferry because they have just go to Korn ferry because they have just go to Korn ferry because they have just amazing amazing leadership resources for amazing amazing leadership resources for amazing amazing leadership resources for leaders in the church nice very cool leaders in the church nice very cool leaders in the church nice very cool what would you think about other you what would you think about other you what would you think about other you know other ministries that you look to know other ministries that you look to know other ministries that you look to to you know be inspired or other to you know be inspired or other to you know be inspired or other organizations you look at who you look organizations you look at who you look organizations you look at who you look to these days to be inspired or you know to these days to be inspired or you know to these days to be inspired or you know to think about the future well I just I to think about the future well I just I to think about the future well I just I love people that are innovating you know love people that are innovating you know love people that are innovating you know I love people that are trying something I love people that are trying something I love people that are trying something new that are new that are new that are a willing to take a shot I'd love to a willing to take a shot I'd love to a willing to take a shot I'd love to encourage our staff and our teams to encourage our staff and our teams to encourage our staff and our teams to take a shot text with the phrase that I take a shot text with the phrase that I take a shot text with the phrase that I use you know think about you know Apple

use you know think about you know Apple use you know think about you know Apple has taken a shot over the years many has taken a shot over the years many has taken a shot over the years many shots that and they've created products shots that and they've created products shots that and they've created products have changed the world obviously Google have changed the world obviously Google have changed the world obviously Google you know uber there's there's so many you know uber there's there's so many you know uber there's there's so many companies out there like that so so for companies out there like that so so for companies out there like that so so for me I'm constantly following them I'm me I'm constantly following them I'm me I'm constantly following them I'm trying to understand how they're trying to understand how they're trying to understand how they're thinking I love to understand how thinking I love to understand how thinking I love to understand how leaders are thinking how are they leaders are thinking how are they leaders are thinking how are they approaching difficult situations how are approaching difficult situations how are approaching difficult situations how are they approaching even just thinking they approaching even just thinking they approaching even just thinking about the future and so I tend to follow about the future and so I tend to follow about the future and so I tend to follow companies like that there's there's tons companies like that there's there's tons companies like that there's there's tons of great ministries around the country I of great ministries around the country I of great ministries around the country I think people know what a lot of those think people know what a lot of those think people know what a lot of those are but but I tend to follow more of are but but I tend to follow more of are but but I tend to follow more of what's happening out on the marketplace what's happening out on the marketplace what's happening out on the marketplace very cool and very cool if you could get very cool and very cool if you could get very cool and very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who 15 minutes with any leader alive who 15 minutes with any leader alive who would you want to get that with my gosh would you want to get that with my gosh would you want to get that with my gosh man I did I don't know I'm going to try man I did I don't know I'm going to try man I did I don't know I'm going to try to give you two here so I think on the to give you two here so I think on the to give you two here so I think on the under creative side in the arts have under creative side in the arts have under creative side in the arts have just as many huge YouTube fans I love just as many huge YouTube fans I love just as many huge YouTube fans I love Bono and really fascinated about his Bono and really fascinated about his Bono and really fascinated about his faith and how you know and I don't fully faith and how you know and I don't fully faith and how you know and I don't fully understand his faith but I would love to understand his faith but I would love to understand his faith but I would love to talk to him about that and how his faith talk to him about that and how his faith talk to him about that and how his faith has played a role in his career and has played a role in his career and has played a role in his career and obviously he's done a lot of great obviously he's done a lot of great obviously he's done a lot of great things around the world as well and things around the world as well and things around the world as well and created some amazing music - there's a created some amazing music - there's a created some amazing music - there's a guy called Johnny odds that works at guy called Johnny odds that works at guy called Johnny odds that works at Apple he's a very senior level guy for a Apple he's a very senior level guy for a Apple he's a very senior level guy for a long time he was their chief designer long time he was their chief designer long time he was their chief designer and I think his Steve Jobs has passed and I think his Steve Jobs has passed and I think his Steve Jobs has passed away I think he's taken even another away I think he's taken even another away I think he's taken even another step up he's a guy would love to meet step up he's a guy would love to meet step up he's a guy would love to meet with and talk to you know you can go out with and talk to you know you can go out with and talk to you know you can go out on youtube and watch videos of him

on youtube and watch videos of him on youtube and watch videos of him talking about designing products you talking about designing products you talking about designing products you know the iPhones back book and he's just know the iPhones back book and he's just know the iPhones back book and he's just poring over every single detail and and poring over every single detail and and poring over every single detail and and I'm just fascinated by that because I'm just fascinated by that because I'm just fascinated by that because Apple cares deeply about excellence it Apple cares deeply about excellence it Apple cares deeply about excellence it happens to be a value of ours at Sandals happens to be a value of ours at Sandals happens to be a value of ours at Sandals Church and so I'm always fascinated Church and so I'm always fascinated Church and so I'm always fascinated about how how you approach and get to to about how how you approach and get to to about how how you approach and get to to excellence and so Johnny I would be a excellence and so Johnny I would be a excellence and so Johnny I would be a guy that I would love to learn from very guy that I would love to learn from very guy that I would love to learn from very cool very cool well I know leading in a cool very cool well I know leading in a cool very cool well I know leading in a ministry like yours growing takes a lot ministry like yours growing takes a lot ministry like yours growing takes a lot out of you it takes a lot of time effort out of you it takes a lot of time effort out of you it takes a lot of time effort energy what do you just do for fun we energy what do you just do for fun we energy what do you just do for fun we just want to kick back relax just want to kick back relax just want to kick back relax enjoy life a little bit me I just I love enjoy life a little bit me I just I love enjoy life a little bit me I just I love hanging out with my wife you know I hanging out with my wife you know I hanging out with my wife you know I really do she she and I get Friday's off really do she she and I get Friday's off really do she she and I get Friday's off together and so our kids are in school together and so our kids are in school together and so our kids are in school I'm off of work and and so we just go I'm off of work and and so we just go I'm off of work and and so we just go and we get we get lost you know hope and we get we get lost you know hope and we get we get lost you know hope just go sooner we haven't been we'll just go sooner we haven't been we'll just go sooner we haven't been we'll walk around we'll shop walk around we'll shop walk around we'll shop we'll eat we might go sit under a tree we'll eat we might go sit under a tree we'll eat we might go sit under a tree and read a book you know for me spending and read a book you know for me spending and read a book you know for me spending you know I spend most of my days are you know I spend most of my days are you know I spend most of my days are just 9:00 to 5:00 and they're just just 9:00 to 5:00 and they're just just 9:00 to 5:00 and they're just locked down mana you know just with locked down mana you know just with locked down mana you know just with meetings and and and and you know meetings and and and and you know meetings and and and and you know talking with our teams and so I love to talking with our teams and so I love to talking with our teams and so I love to just get away disconnects Sabbath on just get away disconnects Sabbath on just get away disconnects Sabbath on Friday and and spend time with the Friday and and spend time with the Friday and and spend time with the person that's really the most important person that's really the most important person that's really the most important person in the world to me which is my person in the world to me which is my person in the world to me which is my wife very cool well I appreciate be on wife very cool well I appreciate be on wife very cool well I appreciate be on the show today if people want to get in the show today if people want to get in the show today if people want to get in touch with you or with the church what's touch with you or with the church what's touch with you or with the church what's the best way for them to do that yeah the best way for them to do that yeah the best way for them to do that yeah shoot me an email I'm Dan Z at Sandals shoot me an email I'm Dan Z at Sandals shoot me an email I'm Dan Z at Sandals Church comdey ANZ at Sandals church.com Church comdey ANZ at Sandals church.com Church comdey ANZ at Sandals church.com I'd love to hear from anyone and you I'd love to hear from anyone and you I'd love to hear from anyone and you know we're the kind of church that we

know we're the kind of church that we know we're the kind of church that we love to help churches if there's love to help churches if there's love to help churches if there's anything that we can do or certainly not anything that we can do or certainly not anything that we can do or certainly not great at everything and I think we're great at everything and I think we're great at everything and I think we're you know God's given us the gifts and you know God's given us the gifts and you know God's given us the gifts and talents and people to do a few things talents and people to do a few things talents and people to do a few things really well if we can share any of our really well if we can share any of our really well if we can share any of our resources tools or thoughts with others resources tools or thoughts with others resources tools or thoughts with others we love to do that because we want to we love to do that because we want to we love to do that because we want to help others who are looking to advance help others who are looking to advance help others who are looking to advance the kingdom so yes shoot me an email the the kingdom so yes shoot me an email the the kingdom so yes shoot me an email the church websites and search comm is where church websites and search comm is where church websites and search comm is where you find us on the web okay appreciate you find us on the web okay appreciate you find us on the web okay appreciate that Dan thanks so much for being on the that Dan thanks so much for being on the that Dan thanks so much for being on the show today show today show today you got it serious thank you for tuning you got it serious thank you for tuning you got it serious thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast in to this week's unsung re podcast in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie Minari inbox you can sign up out uncie Minari inbox you can sign up out uncie Minari inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you at unsummon re calm and we'll send you at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't email rich at unsummon Ericom don't email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for this episode a ton seminary comm it this episode a ton seminary comm it this episode a ton seminary comm it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up to hear from you did you enjoy Jays up so drop by iTunes and leave a review so drop by iTunes and leave a review so drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this thanks again for tuning in to this thanks again for tuning in to this week's on similary podcast week's on similary podcast week's on similary podcast next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary