Chris Rivers on Cultivating Your Church’s Culture

welcome to the unseminary podcast are welcome to the unseminary podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's unseminary podcast this week's unseminary podcast this week's unseminary podcast alright well happy thursday everybody alright well happy thursday everybody alright well happy thursday everybody it's rich burch from the unseminary it's rich burch from the unseminary it's rich burch from the unseminary podcast thanks so much for listening in podcast thanks so much for listening in podcast thanks so much for listening in i'm so glad that you've decided to i'm so glad that you've decided to i'm so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us today i know spend some time with us today i know spend some time with us today i know you're a busy church leader and so i you're a busy church leader and so i you're a busy church leader and so i just really value the fact that you take just really value the fact that you take just really value the fact that you take some time to listen in uh today as we some time to listen in uh today as we some time to listen in uh today as we head into the weekend uh today we've got head into the weekend uh today we've got head into the weekend uh today we've got a real treat we've got my friend chris a real treat we've got my friend chris a real treat we've got my friend chris rivers on the line super excited to have rivers on the line super excited to have rivers on the line super excited to have him uh he's with an organization that him uh he's with an organization that him uh he's with an organization that he's just started called culture bus and he's just started called culture bus and he's just started called culture bus and i want to make sure uh that you know i want to make sure uh that you know i want to make sure uh that you know about chris and know about what he's up about chris and know about what he's up about chris and know about what he's up to so chris welcome to the show thanks to so chris welcome to the show thanks to so chris welcome to the show thanks rich super pumped to be here man love rich super pumped to be here man love rich super pumped to be here man love what you're doing and love what's what you're doing and love what's what you're doing and love what's happening at liquid church man come on happening at liquid church man come on happening at liquid church man come on let's do it let's do it let's do it nice well why don't you give us a bit of nice well why don't you give us a bit of nice well why don't you give us a bit of the chris river story try to compress the chris river story try to compress the chris river story try to compress your entire life down into you know a your entire life down into you know a your entire life down into you know a few punchy sentences yes i will do that few punchy sentences yes i will do that few punchy sentences yes i will do that well i first of all really just grateful well i first of all really just grateful well i first of all really just grateful to hang out with you it's always a to hang out with you it's always a to hang out with you it's always a privilege to uh learn from leaders and privilege to uh learn from leaders and privilege to uh learn from leaders and you're doing some great stuff and want you're doing some great stuff and want you're doing some great stuff and want to thank you all right okay yeah yeah to thank you all right okay yeah yeah to thank you all right okay yeah yeah okay okay okay all right so anyways here's the deal all right so anyways here's the deal all right so anyways here's the deal this is my story quick nutshell okay this is my story quick nutshell okay this is my story quick nutshell okay um seven years ago i got into this whole um seven years ago i got into this whole um seven years ago i got into this whole ministry world i was in the banking ministry world i was in the banking ministry world i was in the banking industry industry industry and i had the opportunity to kind of and i had the opportunity to kind of and i had the opportunity to kind of help start a company called secure give help start a company called secure give help start a company called secure give you might have heard of that they do

you might have heard of that they do you might have heard of that they do these donation kiosks pay with your these donation kiosks pay with your these donation kiosks pay with your debit card let's make more money and do debit card let's make more money and do debit card let's make more money and do more ministry right and so that was more ministry right and so that was more ministry right and so that was really in its infancy uh the really in its infancy uh the really in its infancy uh the technology was wow to some people i technology was wow to some people i technology was wow to some people i don't know if i can handle this so six don't know if i can handle this so six don't know if i can handle this so six months into that um move fast forward i months into that um move fast forward i months into that um move fast forward i had the opportunity to work with a had the opportunity to work with a had the opportunity to work with a company called arena which was a church company called arena which was a church company called arena which was a church management software company they helped management software company they helped management software company they helped get church management in the doors at get church management in the doors at get church management in the doors at willow creek in north point and willow creek in north point and willow creek in north point and you know these churches that had you know these churches that had you know these churches that had developers to change code and whatnot so developers to change code and whatnot so developers to change code and whatnot so i was the sales guy i went in showed him i was the sales guy i went in showed him i was the sales guy i went in showed him the product hang out yay jesus let's do the product hang out yay jesus let's do the product hang out yay jesus let's do it and uh through that process i had the it and uh through that process i had the it and uh through that process i had the opportunity to meet the guys at new opportunity to meet the guys at new opportunity to meet the guys at new spring church in anderson south carolina spring church in anderson south carolina spring church in anderson south carolina and the next thing i know they called me and the next thing i know they called me and the next thing i know they called me into coming on staff and into coming on staff and into coming on staff and i'm doing this thing it's funny i came i'm doing this thing it's funny i came i'm doing this thing it's funny i came on staff april 1st 2010. i didn't know on staff april 1st 2010. i didn't know on staff april 1st 2010. i didn't know if it was a joke today if it was a joke today if it was a joke today it was really something quite unique um it was really something quite unique um it was really something quite unique um at the time we were running about 10 000 at the time we were running about 10 000 at the time we were running about 10 000 on a sunday five campuses on a sunday five campuses on a sunday five campuses i mean you're you're seeing some things i mean you're you're seeing some things i mean you're you're seeing some things that are just amazing right and so i that are just amazing right and so i that are just amazing right and so i came on staff um and ready to go suit up came on staff um and ready to go suit up came on staff um and ready to go suit up show up my first day i think i ran nine show up my first day i think i ran nine show up my first day i think i ran nine miles that morning and just super miles that morning and just super miles that morning and just super excited about this call to ministry excited about this call to ministry excited about this call to ministry didn't know what the expectation was but didn't know what the expectation was but didn't know what the expectation was but i was ready to go and for the first year i was ready to go and for the first year i was ready to go and for the first year i worked my tail feathers off changing i worked my tail feathers off changing i worked my tail feathers off changing everything right we were using everything right we were using everything right we were using fellowship one fellowship one fellowship one arena all this stuff changing it um and arena all this stuff changing it um and arena all this stuff changing it um and you know how change is at the church you know how change is at the church you know how change is at the church right

right right and uh so about a year and a half into and uh so about a year and a half into and uh so about a year and a half into this uh change of software we launched this uh change of software we launched this uh change of software we launched it it was a rocky start and i remember it it was a rocky start and i remember it it was a rocky start and i remember shane duffy one of our directional shane duffy one of our directional shane duffy one of our directional leadership team guys brought me in his leadership team guys brought me in his leadership team guys brought me in his office he said hey man i love you chris office he said hey man i love you chris office he said hey man i love you chris but i need you to convert us back to but i need you to convert us back to but i need you to convert us back to fellowship one and this was like i mean fellowship one and this was like i mean fellowship one and this was like i mean the craziest thing in the world i was a the craziest thing in the world i was a the craziest thing in the world i was a laughing stock to the fellowship one laughing stock to the fellowship one laughing stock to the fellowship one guys i mean they had payday with me guys i mean they had payday with me guys i mean they had payday with me right right right right right right and it hurt my heart you know my pride and it hurt my heart you know my pride and it hurt my heart you know my pride was broken and so at the time i was was broken and so at the time i was was broken and so at the time i was working on a team that tony morgan had working on a team that tony morgan had working on a team that tony morgan had started called the central ops it was started called the central ops it was started called the central ops it was kind of like the cirque de soleil of kind of like the cirque de soleil of kind of like the cirque de soleil of ministry and i moved from there to the ministry and i moved from there to the ministry and i moved from there to the i.t i.t i.t team which i referred to uh that room as team which i referred to uh that room as team which i referred to uh that room as the it closet the it closet the it closet growing so rapidly we literally worked growing so rapidly we literally worked growing so rapidly we literally worked out of a closet oh wow and uh i'm i'm out of a closet oh wow and uh i'm i'm out of a closet oh wow and uh i'm i'm really struggling with my calling you really struggling with my calling you really struggling with my calling you know i'm not doing what i would thought know i'm not doing what i would thought know i'm not doing what i would thought i was supposed to be doing everything i was supposed to be doing everything i was supposed to be doing everything that i had worked for had been stripped that i had worked for had been stripped that i had worked for had been stripped and it was in that moment that i almost and it was in that moment that i almost and it was in that moment that i almost quit and really learned the difference quit and really learned the difference quit and really learned the difference between abiding and striving and between abiding and striving and between abiding and striving and ministry and ministry and ministry and you know letting god do his thing you know letting god do his thing you know letting god do his thing through you right and and trusting in through you right and and trusting in through you right and and trusting in that process um and one day one of the that process um and one day one of the that process um and one day one of the guys in it said hey man there's this guy guys in it said hey man there's this guy guys in it said hey man there's this guy coming on staff rich burch go give his coming on staff rich burch go give his coming on staff rich burch go give his laptop you know and i was like uh okay laptop you know and i was like uh okay laptop you know and i was like uh okay sure what do you want me to say to him sure what do you want me to say to him sure what do you want me to say to him don't worry about it just give him his don't worry about it just give him his don't worry about it just give him his laptop and so i thought about all the laptop and so i thought about all the laptop and so i thought about all the things that i wish someone had told me things that i wish someone had told me things that i wish someone had told me when i transitioned into ministry um i when i transitioned into ministry um i when i transitioned into ministry um i had come to a new place there were new

had come to a new place there were new had come to a new place there were new faces there was new i didn't even know faces there was new i didn't even know faces there was new i didn't even know what ministry was about i'm like here i what ministry was about i'm like here i what ministry was about i'm like here i am they just wanted me to come on staff am they just wanted me to come on staff am they just wanted me to come on staff well who am i you know well who am i you know well who am i you know and um and so i remember that 30-minute and um and so i remember that 30-minute and um and so i remember that 30-minute conversation turned into a 90-day staff conversation turned into a 90-day staff conversation turned into a 90-day staff development program that that i kind of development program that that i kind of development program that that i kind of helped put together and launch in 2010. helped put together and launch in 2010. helped put together and launch in 2010. and so around 2010 we had about 138 and so around 2010 we had about 138 and so around 2010 we had about 138 staff staff staff uh we were i mean we were blowing up man uh we were i mean we were blowing up man uh we were i mean we were blowing up man i mean it was just crazy crazy stuff and i mean it was just crazy crazy stuff and i mean it was just crazy crazy stuff and within a year and a half okay we hired within a year and a half okay we hired within a year and a half okay we hired 147 people wow 147 people wow 147 people wow we literally doubled our staff in a year we literally doubled our staff in a year we literally doubled our staff in a year and a half i mean i'm telling you every and a half i mean i'm telling you every and a half i mean i'm telling you every monday there were people coming on staff monday there were people coming on staff monday there were people coming on staff sometimes five one day 15 another day sometimes five one day 15 another day sometimes five one day 15 another day three and i'm like holy cow how do you three and i'm like holy cow how do you three and i'm like holy cow how do you help transition people industry so you help transition people industry so you help transition people industry so you know you start doing something you start know you start doing something you start know you start doing something you start learning after your mistakes right and learning after your mistakes right and learning after your mistakes right and about a year into this i realized that about a year into this i realized that about a year into this i realized that the transition process is one of the the transition process is one of the the transition process is one of the most critical things that we do right most critical things that we do right most critical things that we do right and as ministry leaders the way that we and as ministry leaders the way that we and as ministry leaders the way that we transition people into and into transition people into and into transition people into and into something either makes them or breaks something either makes them or breaks something either makes them or breaks them right and so i really start to them right and so i really start to them right and so i really start to question and really get before the lord question and really get before the lord question and really get before the lord to say what do you want that to look to say what do you want that to look to say what do you want that to look like because culture has so much to do like because culture has so much to do like because culture has so much to do with that right right and so one of the with that right right and so one of the with that right right and so one of the things i learned through that process is things i learned through that process is things i learned through that process is that culture is what your environments that culture is what your environments that culture is what your environments they say you value right so so i'm all they say you value right so so i'm all they say you value right so so i'm all about this culture development thing and

about this culture development thing and about this culture development thing and culture development to me is saturating culture development to me is saturating culture development to me is saturating your environments with your vision and your environments with your vision and your environments with your vision and so it doesn't matter if you're a new so it doesn't matter if you're a new so it doesn't matter if you're a new staff person or you're a new volunteer staff person or you're a new volunteer staff person or you're a new volunteer or you're new on day one or you're new on day one or you're new on day one that environment that you walk into it that environment that you walk into it that environment that you walk into it sets the tone for your transition and so sets the tone for your transition and so sets the tone for your transition and so that's really kind of how culture bus that's really kind of how culture bus that's really kind of how culture bus started and i started getting pastors started and i started getting pastors started and i started getting pastors asking me to help them hey will you help asking me to help them hey will you help asking me to help them hey will you help me build something similar and the next me build something similar and the next me build something similar and the next thing i know i'm just here i am talking thing i know i'm just here i am talking thing i know i'm just here i am talking okay okay okay all right and just for people that were all right and just for people that were all right and just for people that were listening there i didn't i never have listening there i didn't i never have listening there i didn't i never have worked at newspring although that would worked at newspring although that would worked at newspring although that would be a privilege i didn't actually get to be a privilege i didn't actually get to be a privilege i didn't actually get to get the new laptop from you chris get the new laptop from you chris get the new laptop from you chris although that would have been uh that although that would have been uh that although that would have been uh that would have been great would have been great would have been great nice now um you know you and i were nice now um you know you and i were nice now um you know you and i were talking last week um i you know there's talking last week um i you know there's talking last week um i you know there's a lot there's a lot we could talk about a lot there's a lot we could talk about a lot there's a lot we could talk about there's a lot we could jump into a part there's a lot we could jump into a part there's a lot we could jump into a part of what i appreciate you there your of what i appreciate you there your of what i appreciate you there your focus on those transition points i think focus on those transition points i think focus on those transition points i think you're really on to something there i you're really on to something there i you're really on to something there i think particularly at those transition think particularly at those transition think particularly at those transition points like you said from first-time points like you said from first-time points like you said from first-time staff to joining staff to like staff to joining staff to like staff to joining staff to like first-time guests to you know people first-time guests to you know people first-time guests to you know people that are new to the church you know that are new to the church you know that are new to the church you know people that are just volunteering i people that are just volunteering i people that are just volunteering i think that i i think you've hit on think that i i think you've hit on think that i i think you've hit on something super critical there for something super critical there for something super critical there for churches to wrestle through um and so churches to wrestle through um and so churches to wrestle through um and so i'm excited that you're helping out you i'm excited that you're helping out you i'm excited that you're helping out you know out helping churches um on that but know out helping churches um on that but know out helping churches um on that but you said you said something last week you said you said something last week you said you said something last week that really grabbed my attention you that really grabbed my attention you that really grabbed my attention you talked about talked about talked about um you know simon sinek he he wrote a um you know simon sinek he he wrote a um you know simon sinek he he wrote a great book um that really i would great book um that really i would great book um that really i would recommend uh everyone that's listening recommend uh everyone that's listening recommend uh everyone that's listening really should read it's a great book uh really should read it's a great book uh really should read it's a great book uh start with the why uh but you said start with the why uh but you said start with the why uh but you said something about that book uh or about

something about that book uh or about something about that book uh or about him that was like oh that's an him that was like oh that's an him that was like oh that's an interesting thought kind of a leveraging interesting thought kind of a leveraging interesting thought kind of a leveraging off of his idea off of his idea off of his idea particularly for us as we're trying to particularly for us as we're trying to particularly for us as we're trying to build culture and what was that yeah so build culture and what was that yeah so build culture and what was that yeah so that's that's so good so one of the that's that's so good so one of the that's that's so good so one of the things that i realized when people would things that i realized when people would things that i realized when people would come into ministry on day one come into ministry on day one come into ministry on day one most people are more focused on what to most people are more focused on what to most people are more focused on what to do and how they're supposed to do their do and how they're supposed to do their do and how they're supposed to do their job than why they're doing it in the job than why they're doing it in the job than why they're doing it in the first place right and so you know the first place right and so you know the first place right and so you know the fact of the matter is is that we all fact of the matter is is that we all fact of the matter is is that we all want to be part of something greater you want to be part of something greater you want to be part of something greater you know there's something inside of us that know there's something inside of us that know there's something inside of us that longs for purpose and meaning and so as longs for purpose and meaning and so as longs for purpose and meaning and so as a follower of christ we're really called a follower of christ we're really called a follower of christ we're really called to to to to do more to to live within to to to to do more to to live within to to to to do more to to live within the spectrum and it's rey with all these the spectrum and it's rey with all these the spectrum and it's rey with all these passions that we have right so passions that we have right so passions that we have right so so during the season when i was leading so during the season when i was leading so during the season when i was leading staff development i would always share staff development i would always share staff development i would always share this simon sinek's golden circle of this simon sinek's golden circle of this simon sinek's golden circle of decision because he defines right this decision because he defines right this decision because he defines right this the leader's vision as the why the leader's vision as the why the leader's vision as the why emphasizing that people don't buy into emphasizing that people don't buy into emphasizing that people don't buy into what you do or how you do it but why you what you do or how you do it but why you what you do or how you do it but why you do it right so simon makes this point do it right so simon makes this point do it right so simon makes this point that the why must be the central focus that the why must be the central focus that the why must be the central focus that will compel people to be part of that will compel people to be part of that will compel people to be part of what you're doing and not the how and what you're doing and not the how and what you're doing and not the how and the what right so as a leader if you the what right so as a leader if you the what right so as a leader if you want your vision to be the focus you want your vision to be the focus you want your vision to be the focus you need to set up clear expectations for need to set up clear expectations for need to set up clear expectations for your team right so they know what their your team right so they know what their your team right so they know what their target looks like so there's this target looks like so there's this target looks like so there's this constant fight to keep the vision constant fight to keep the vision constant fight to keep the vision central and so one of the things that central and so one of the things that central and so one of the things that stood out to me as i would help people stood out to me as i would help people stood out to me as i would help people transition into ministry is that they transition into ministry is that they transition into ministry is that they were so focused on what was expected of were so focused on what was expected of were so focused on what was expected of them right so on day one they were more them right so on day one they were more them right so on day one they were more interested right in their job and the

interested right in their job and the interested right in their job and the details of their role required of them details of their role required of them details of their role required of them rather than why they were doing it in rather than why they were doing it in rather than why they were doing it in the first place right so to be effective the first place right so to be effective the first place right so to be effective in ministry we have to be willing to in ministry we have to be willing to in ministry we have to be willing to change right and if your team members change right and if your team members change right and if your team members are zeroed in on the how and the what of are zeroed in on the how and the what of are zeroed in on the how and the what of their roles they will struggle to their roles they will struggle to their roles they will struggle to embrace the challenges that inevitably embrace the challenges that inevitably embrace the challenges that inevitably will come right you know so but if the will come right you know so but if the will come right you know so but if the vision is central so your team will vision is central so your team will vision is central so your team will adapt as changes arise because they will adapt as changes arise because they will adapt as changes arise because they will be ready to sacrifice the how and the be ready to sacrifice the how and the be ready to sacrifice the how and the what for the why right which will lead what for the why right which will lead what for the why right which will lead to a vibrant culture so you know think to a vibrant culture so you know think to a vibrant culture so you know think about this a great example of this in about this a great example of this in about this a great example of this in the business world is blockbuster video the business world is blockbuster video the business world is blockbuster video right so you know they were so focused right so you know they were so focused right so you know they were so focused on their movie rental stores that when on their movie rental stores that when on their movie rental stores that when companies like netflix started offering companies like netflix started offering companies like netflix started offering movies online they didn't adapt to a movies online they didn't adapt to a movies online they didn't adapt to a changing consumer and it became more changing consumer and it became more changing consumer and it became more about how they did business and what about how they did business and what about how they did business and what they offered that they lost sight of why they offered that they lost sight of why they offered that they lost sight of why they were doing it in the first place they were doing it in the first place they were doing it in the first place right and as the industry changed they right and as the industry changed they right and as the industry changed they didn't and as a result they're no longer didn't and as a result they're no longer didn't and as a result they're no longer in business today right right right so in business today right right right so in business today right right right so so over time as your team is saturated so over time as your team is saturated so over time as your team is saturated with your vision you know it produces with your vision you know it produces with your vision you know it produces ministry environments that inspire and ministry environments that inspire and ministry environments that inspire and when people encounter this kind of when people encounter this kind of when people encounter this kind of culture not only do they know why it culture not only do they know why it culture not only do they know why it exists but they become wild with how exists but they become wild with how exists but they become wild with how it's presented right so when new people it's presented right so when new people it's presented right so when new people when they set foot in your church or when they set foot in your church or when they set foot in your church or your ministry and they experience the your ministry and they experience the your ministry and they experience the wow they see something bigger than wow they see something bigger than wow they see something bigger than themselves and it leaves them expectant themselves and it leaves them expectant themselves and it leaves them expectant for more right so like wow moments for more right so like wow moments for more right so like wow moments create impact and this is the way jesus

create impact and this is the way jesus create impact and this is the way jesus led he's always leaving people amazed led he's always leaving people amazed led he's always leaving people amazed and filled with all so the goal of that and filled with all so the goal of that and filled with all so the goal of that time the goal of talking about this time the goal of talking about this time the goal of talking about this simon snake you know another great book simon snake you know another great book simon snake you know another great book is the advantage by patrick liscioni is the advantage by patrick liscioni is the advantage by patrick liscioni that's another thing that you know that's another thing that you know that's another thing that you know mystery leaders can check out but that mystery leaders can check out but that mystery leaders can check out but that really challenged me because you know it really challenged me because you know it really challenged me because you know it was all about a shift right so as you was all about a shift right so as you was all about a shift right so as you master your vision and in my role you master your vision and in my role you master your vision and in my role you know it allowed our team's focus to know it allowed our team's focus to know it allowed our team's focus to shift from what was expected of them to shift from what was expected of them to shift from what was expected of them to a place where they can be expected for a place where they can be expected for a place where they can be expected for god to do what only he can do through god to do what only he can do through god to do what only he can do through them right and so where there was once a them right and so where there was once a them right and so where there was once a desire to know what to do there is now a desire to know what to do there is now a desire to know what to do there is now a willingness to do whatever it takes to willingness to do whatever it takes to willingness to do whatever it takes to see the vision alive in the culture see the vision alive in the culture see the vision alive in the culture right right so your why becomes their right right so your why becomes their right right so your why becomes their wild that's kind of what we were talking wild that's kind of what we were talking wild that's kind of what we were talking about the other day about the other day about the other day help help help absolutely you know i'd just love to absolutely you know i'd just love to absolutely you know i'd just love to just uh flesh that out a little bit more just uh flesh that out a little bit more just uh flesh that out a little bit more just today literally about an hour ago i just today literally about an hour ago i just today literally about an hour ago i was was was um i was at one of our campuses working um i was at one of our campuses working um i was at one of our campuses working on some facility stuff there on some facility stuff there on some facility stuff there and i was driving back um to my home and i was driving back um to my home and i was driving back um to my home office and there's a church in this town office and there's a church in this town office and there's a church in this town that that that the building has ended up um it's was the building has ended up um it's was the building has ended up um it's was the church basically died right there is the church basically died right there is the church basically died right there is you know it dwindle dwindle dwindle you know it dwindle dwindle dwindle you know it dwindle dwindle dwindle dwindled in world and the building ended dwindled in world and the building ended dwindled in world and the building ended up becoming now it's owned by the town up becoming now it's owned by the town up becoming now it's owned by the town and it's become like a parks and rec and it's become like a parks and rec and it's become like a parks and rec building and just today i this maybe building and just today i this maybe building and just today i this maybe it's been there for a while but i've it's been there for a while but i've it's been there for a while but i've never noticed it before just today i never noticed it before just today i never noticed it before just today i noticed that they took the cross off the noticed that they took the cross off the noticed that they took the cross off the front of the church and all that's left

front of the church and all that's left front of the church and all that's left is like the outline of the cross like is like the outline of the cross like is like the outline of the cross like you know when you take like a you know you know when you take like a you know you know when you take like a you know like and there was something really sad like and there was something really sad like and there was something really sad about that i was like gosh you know here about that i was like gosh you know here about that i was like gosh you know here is a church that you know they is a church that you know they is a church that you know they sacrificed to make this thing happen and sacrificed to make this thing happen and sacrificed to make this thing happen and you know they lost their their witness you know they lost their their witness you know they lost their their witness in their community and i think this why in their community and i think this why in their community and i think this why how does that connect to what we're how does that connect to what we're how does that connect to what we're talking about today i think uh as church talking about today i think uh as church talking about today i think uh as church leaders if we uh can't stay focused on leaders if we uh can't stay focused on leaders if we uh can't stay focused on the why and then ultimately uh you know the why and then ultimately uh you know the why and then ultimately uh you know get to the wow yeah um you know we'll get to the wow yeah um you know we'll get to the wow yeah um you know we'll we'll end up there right we'll end up we'll end up there right we'll end up we'll end up there right we'll end up there as you know as as church leaders there as you know as as church leaders there as you know as as church leaders so yeah i appreciate that how does a so yeah i appreciate that how does a so yeah i appreciate that how does a church so how do we create those kind of church so how do we create those kind of church so how do we create those kind of wow moments as you talked about that wow moments as you talked about that wow moments as you talked about that reinforce uh the why in our organization reinforce uh the why in our organization reinforce uh the why in our organization yeah i think for me it just gets back to yeah i think for me it just gets back to yeah i think for me it just gets back to listen to jesus and do what he says you listen to jesus and do what he says you listen to jesus and do what he says you know i mean know i mean know i mean i mean i know that that sounds so cliche i mean i know that that sounds so cliche i mean i know that that sounds so cliche jesus is the only answer but i mean when jesus is the only answer but i mean when jesus is the only answer but i mean when you look like for instance in the book you look like for instance in the book you look like for instance in the book of mark the gospel of mark alone there of mark the gospel of mark alone there of mark the gospel of mark alone there are 18 references to the word amazed are 18 references to the word amazed are 18 references to the word amazed okay and every time it was actually okay and every time it was actually okay and every time it was actually right after someone spent time with right after someone spent time with right after someone spent time with jesus right right and so i think that jesus right right and so i think that jesus right right and so i think that even in acts you look at acts 2 you know even in acts you look at acts 2 you know even in acts you look at acts 2 you know and and and and and and the people they gathered together they the people they gathered together they the people they gathered together they were they were equipping each other and were they were equipping each other and were they were equipping each other and it said that they were that they were it said that they were that they were it said that they were that they were amazed like what was happening and you amazed like what was happening and you amazed like what was happening and you go through the book of acts and there's go through the book of acts and there's go through the book of acts and there's so many other references of this word so many other references of this word so many other references of this word amazed and so i think that for us as amazed and so i think that for us as amazed and so i think that for us as ministry leaders when we when we do get ministry leaders when we when we do get ministry leaders when we when we do get back to like okay jesus what do you want back to like okay jesus what do you want back to like okay jesus what do you want me to do it goes back to vision you know me to do it goes back to vision you know me to do it goes back to vision you know vision alone can't get the job done it

vision alone can't get the job done it vision alone can't get the job done it takes a team of people to be you know takes a team of people to be you know takes a team of people to be you know round about this vision to make it a round about this vision to make it a round about this vision to make it a reality and so i think that reality and so i think that reality and so i think that this is what we've done with culture this is what we've done with culture this is what we've done with culture boss right we've created six routes boss right we've created six routes boss right we've created six routes right each route has lessons and test right each route has lessons and test right each route has lessons and test drives that help a leader you know drives that help a leader you know drives that help a leader you know create a vehicle that transfers vision create a vehicle that transfers vision create a vehicle that transfers vision to your team so one of the examples of to your team so one of the examples of to your team so one of the examples of our routes is called building our routes is called building our routes is called building foundations okay and so what i've foundations okay and so what i've foundations okay and so what i've learned about building foundations is learned about building foundations is learned about building foundations is that you need a foundation that stands that you need a foundation that stands that you need a foundation that stands the test of time because if you are the test of time because if you are the test of time because if you are going to grow then there's going to be going to grow then there's going to be going to grow then there's going to be change that happens it inevitably comes change that happens it inevitably comes change that happens it inevitably comes and so like here's a great example think and so like here's a great example think and so like here's a great example think of the game of jenga right i i love this of the game of jenga right i i love this of the game of jenga right i i love this game my kids and i we play it and um i game my kids and i we play it and um i game my kids and i we play it and um i love watching my little kids they try to love watching my little kids they try to love watching my little kids they try to try to pull them out yeah but like think try to pull them out yeah but like think try to pull them out yeah but like think about that as it relates to your staff about that as it relates to your staff about that as it relates to your staff right so like if if you don't have right so like if if you don't have right so like if if you don't have centralized processes and systems then a centralized processes and systems then a centralized processes and systems then a lot of times your ministry is like jenga lot of times your ministry is like jenga lot of times your ministry is like jenga you know people they're like a piece and you know people they're like a piece and you know people they're like a piece and they you pull them out if they move or they you pull them out if they move or they you pull them out if they move or they change roles or they they leave the they change roles or they they leave the they change roles or they they leave the organization for whatever reason and organization for whatever reason and organization for whatever reason and then after as that happens with their then after as that happens with their then after as that happens with their system and their process the foundation system and their process the foundation system and their process the foundation starts to crumble but when you have i starts to crumble but when you have i starts to crumble but when you have i mean mean mean just centralized processes and just centralized processes and just centralized processes and evaluating tools that are centralized evaluating tools that are centralized evaluating tools that are centralized you be able to create a foundation that you be able to create a foundation that you be able to create a foundation that stands to test the time and so like stands to test the time and so like stands to test the time and so like that's one of the routes that we help that's one of the routes that we help that's one of the routes that we help leaders do you know church management leaders do you know church management leaders do you know church management software you know phone systems um email

software you know phone systems um email software you know phone systems um email how what is the best process to follow how what is the best process to follow how what is the best process to follow up with people and standards so i think up with people and standards so i think up with people and standards so i think that it's it's not just listen to jesus that it's it's not just listen to jesus that it's it's not just listen to jesus and do what he says but i think it's and do what he says but i think it's and do what he says but i think it's creating an environment creating an environment creating an environment that where excellence is involved and that where excellence is involved and that where excellence is involved and the other day i was talking to somebody the other day i was talking to somebody the other day i was talking to somebody and they they were we were talking about and they they were we were talking about and they they were we were talking about excellence and it i realized in my heart excellence and it i realized in my heart excellence and it i realized in my heart that i didn't i've never really come up that i didn't i've never really come up that i didn't i've never really come up with a definition of excellence right so with a definition of excellence right so with a definition of excellence right so i came up with this definition i came up with this definition i came up with this definition excellence destroys distractions for the excellence destroys distractions for the excellence destroys distractions for the sake of the vision sake of the vision sake of the vision excellent excellent excellent let me chew on that excellence destroys let me chew on that excellence destroys let me chew on that excellence destroys distraction distraction distraction for the sake of the vision yeah that's for the sake of the vision yeah that's for the sake of the vision yeah that's cool yeah so so this is what i think cool yeah so so this is what i think cool yeah so so this is what i think happens a lot of times we walk into a happens a lot of times we walk into a happens a lot of times we walk into a culture right we walk into a church you culture right we walk into a church you culture right we walk into a church you know if you go to another church right know if you go to another church right know if you go to another church right down the road for the very first time down the road for the very first time down the road for the very first time you just walk into it you are already a you just walk into it you are already a you just walk into it you are already a critical person in your heart because critical person in your heart because critical person in your heart because i'm not saying rich is critical but we i'm not saying rich is critical but we i'm not saying rich is critical but we look for the distractions because that's look for the distractions because that's look for the distractions because that's just what we do and so distractions they just what we do and so distractions they just what we do and so distractions they destroy vision and so excellence is destroy vision and so excellence is destroy vision and so excellence is nothing more than jesus he's the king of nothing more than jesus he's the king of nothing more than jesus he's the king of excellence right he was the king of the excellence right he was the king of the excellence right he was the king of the greatest transition ever right so how do greatest transition ever right so how do greatest transition ever right so how do we take those transitions and make them we take those transitions and make them we take those transitions and make them excellent in everything we do you know excellent in everything we do you know excellent in everything we do you know if somebody walks into our church maybe if somebody walks into our church maybe if somebody walks into our church maybe we don't you know we make that the most we don't you know we make that the most we don't you know we make that the most excellent environment that they ever excellent environment that they ever excellent environment that they ever experience experience experience if you have a one-on-one with your staff if you have a one-on-one with your staff if you have a one-on-one with your staff member you make that environment so member you make that environment so member you make that environment so excellent that they walk away and they excellent that they walk away and they excellent that they walk away and they say my gosh this guy cares for me he

say my gosh this guy cares for me he say my gosh this guy cares for me he values me it's not just what he wants values me it's not just what he wants values me it's not just what he wants you know from me but he wants something you know from me but he wants something you know from me but he wants something for me too and so i think maybe just for me too and so i think maybe just for me too and so i think maybe just even a start is just figure out what even a start is just figure out what even a start is just figure out what excellence looks like and destroy the excellence looks like and destroy the excellence looks like and destroy the distraction right distraction right distraction right absolutely this has been fantastic absolutely this has been fantastic absolutely this has been fantastic there's a lot to chew here um i'm hoping there's a lot to chew here um i'm hoping there's a lot to chew here um i'm hoping what i hope actually is that out of what i hope actually is that out of what i hope actually is that out of today's kind of podcast people want to today's kind of podcast people want to today's kind of podcast people want to reach out to you and connect which will reach out to you and connect which will reach out to you and connect which will get all that contact information here in get all that contact information here in get all that contact information here in a minute a bit but is there anything a minute a bit but is there anything a minute a bit but is there anything else you'd like to you know kind of on else you'd like to you know kind of on else you'd like to you know kind of on this topic um or these topics there's a this topic um or these topics there's a this topic um or these topics there's a lot we've talked about um lot we've talked about um lot we've talked about um uh four people before we jump into the uh four people before we jump into the uh four people before we jump into the lightning round i think for me i'm just lightning round i think for me i'm just lightning round i think for me i'm just super super super excited for what god's doing i mean i excited for what god's doing i mean i excited for what god's doing i mean i could not be more passionate about this could not be more passionate about this could not be more passionate about this i've done a lot of things and so you i've done a lot of things and so you i've done a lot of things and so you know i'm just excited to see what god's know i'm just excited to see what god's know i'm just excited to see what god's got in store i've got my hands open i'm got in store i've got my hands open i'm got in store i've got my hands open i'm ready to give him take whatever he's got ready to give him take whatever he's got ready to give him take whatever he's got and it's gonna be hard it's not an easy and it's gonna be hard it's not an easy and it's gonna be hard it's not an easy road but you know i'm just excited to road but you know i'm just excited to road but you know i'm just excited to see the best days of the church are see the best days of the church are see the best days of the church are ahead of us i mean i mean i believe it ahead of us i mean i mean i believe it ahead of us i mean i mean i believe it i've seen it i've witnessed it and i i've seen it i've witnessed it and i i've seen it i've witnessed it and i believe that if you're a ministry believe that if you're a ministry believe that if you're a ministry that is having a hard time there is hope that is having a hard time there is hope that is having a hard time there is hope for you and so i think that that's for you and so i think that that's for you and so i think that that's probably if i could say anything man probably if i could say anything man probably if i could say anything man just don't give up don't quit you know just don't give up don't quit you know just don't give up don't quit you know that is literally just keep focusing on that is literally just keep focusing on that is literally just keep focusing on jesus and do what he says and the best jesus and do what he says and the best jesus and do what he says and the best is yet to come i mean that's that's it is yet to come i mean that's that's it is yet to come i mean that's that's it this is the unseminary podcast stuff you this is the unseminary podcast stuff you this is the unseminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary all right wish they taught in seminary all right wish they taught in seminary all right well let's uh let's jump into the well let's uh let's jump into the well let's uh let's jump into the lightning round that part of the show lightning round that part of the show lightning round that part of the show where we um you know we asked the same where we um you know we asked the same where we um you know we asked the same questions to people who who are on the questions to people who who are on the questions to people who who are on the show up every week just to kind of wrap show up every week just to kind of wrap show up every week just to kind of wrap up have a fun uh conversation at the end

up have a fun uh conversation at the end up have a fun uh conversation at the end so today we've got chris rivers from so today we've got chris rivers from so today we've got chris rivers from culture bus uh on the show super excited culture bus uh on the show super excited culture bus uh on the show super excited to have chris with us um so chris what's to have chris with us um so chris what's to have chris with us um so chris what's kind of a helpful tech tool or online kind of a helpful tech tool or online kind of a helpful tech tool or online tool that you've been using these days tool that you've been using these days tool that you've been using these days that's been particularly helpful to you that's been particularly helpful to you that's been particularly helpful to you yes well i'm an iphone junkie and nice yes well i'm an iphone junkie and nice yes well i'm an iphone junkie and nice pet toys and dude i've got an app here's pet toys and dude i've got an app here's pet toys and dude i've got an app here's an app right here that i find very an app right here that i find very an app right here that i find very valuable a lot of times i'm talking to valuable a lot of times i'm talking to valuable a lot of times i'm talking to somebody and i'm like trying to oh my somebody and i'm like trying to oh my somebody and i'm like trying to oh my gosh they just said something that hits gosh they just said something that hits gosh they just said something that hits me so there's a squarespace note i don't me so there's a squarespace note i don't me so there's a squarespace note i don't know if you've ever had that app that's know if you've ever had that app that's know if you've ever had that app that's great basically write like you know you great basically write like you know you great basically write like you know you can write things down that uh you know can write things down that uh you know can write things down that uh you know how does your like i wrote this the how does your like i wrote this the how does your like i wrote this the other day how does doubling your size other day how does doubling your size other day how does doubling your size affect your culture okay and then you affect your culture okay and then you affect your culture okay and then you just you just throw this bad boy up and just you just throw this bad boy up and just you just throw this bad boy up and it goes to your evernote or it goes to it goes to your evernote or it goes to it goes to your evernote or it goes to your mac your mac your mac somewhere it's just a quick you know hey somewhere it's just a quick you know hey somewhere it's just a quick you know hey get that note out and let me get on to get that note out and let me get on to get that note out and let me get on to what i was doing so that app has saved what i was doing so that app has saved what i was doing so that app has saved me a lot of time because sometimes i me a lot of time because sometimes i me a lot of time because sometimes i like pull out the note and i'm like like pull out the note and i'm like like pull out the note and i'm like writing the note and then i gotta hit writing the note and then i gotta hit writing the note and then i gotta hit email and put in my email too many steps email and put in my email too many steps email and put in my email too many steps too many steps cool it's a squarespace too many steps cool it's a squarespace too many steps cool it's a squarespace app squarespace no you can find it on app squarespace no you can find it on app squarespace no you can find it on itunes nice very cool all right so what itunes nice very cool all right so what itunes nice very cool all right so what are some other ministries that you're are some other ministries that you're are some other ministries that you're following these day you're like you're following these day you're like you're following these day you're like you're particularly intrigued by what's particularly intrigued by what's particularly intrigued by what's happening in their in their ministry happening in their in their ministry happening in their in their ministry man i mean man i mean man i mean gosh gosh gosh you know carrie newhalf is like kicking you know carrie newhalf is like kicking you know carrie newhalf is like kicking tail and taking names i love that guy tail and taking names i love that guy tail and taking names i love that guy um i'm watching him i'm kind of paying um i'm watching him i'm kind of paying um i'm watching him i'm kind of paying attention to some of the things that attention to some of the things that attention to some of the things that they're doing uh but there's a lot of they're doing uh but there's a lot of they're doing uh but there's a lot of churches that i you know i'm more not churches that i you know i'm more not churches that i you know i'm more not necessarily looking at the church as a necessarily looking at the church as a necessarily looking at the church as a whole but like just ministry leaders

whole but like just ministry leaders whole but like just ministry leaders like dave willis for instance okay this like dave willis for instance okay this like dave willis for instance okay this guy is one of the teaching pastors at guy is one of the teaching pastors at guy is one of the teaching pastors at stephens creek community church in stephens creek community church in stephens creek community church in augusta georgia this guy is like amazing augusta georgia this guy is like amazing augusta georgia this guy is like amazing he says things value bombs that just he says things value bombs that just he says things value bombs that just like like like right right right right it's been such a great right it's been such a great right it's been such a great encouragement so a lot of times i mean encouragement so a lot of times i mean encouragement so a lot of times i mean like i'm direct messaging guys all the like i'm direct messaging guys all the like i'm direct messaging guys all the time just saying dude i love you man time just saying dude i love you man time just saying dude i love you man what in the world is god teaching you what in the world is god teaching you what in the world is god teaching you and i try you know like that's really and i try you know like that's really and i try you know like that's really been more been more been more impact to me but the cove church and impact to me but the cove church and impact to me but the cove church and still north carolina mike and george and still north carolina mike and george and still north carolina mike and george and those guys down there they're doing some those guys down there they're doing some those guys down there they're doing some amazing things they've got this thing amazing things they've got this thing amazing things they've got this thing going on with this banana thing that is going on with this banana thing that is going on with this banana thing that is like it's crazy thing about it but it's like it's crazy thing about it but it's like it's crazy thing about it but it's crazy and in their culture it works yeah crazy and in their culture it works yeah crazy and in their culture it works yeah absolutely and so those are just a absolutely and so those are just a absolutely and so those are just a couple guys couple guys couple guys like stand out to me yeah that's nice uh like stand out to me yeah that's nice uh like stand out to me yeah that's nice uh influential book that you've read say in influential book that you've read say in influential book that you've read say in the last i don't know six months or a the last i don't know six months or a the last i don't know six months or a year you know fairly recent that's had year you know fairly recent that's had year you know fairly recent that's had an impact on your thinking yeah i'm an impact on your thinking yeah i'm an impact on your thinking yeah i'm going to tell you this book right here going to tell you this book right here going to tell you this book right here yes yes yes okay i mean this is just ed i'm mike okay i mean this is just ed i'm mike okay i mean this is just ed i'm mike butcher's name ed capital but i've butcher's name ed capital but i've butcher's name ed capital but i've really been studying a lot about brand really been studying a lot about brand really been studying a lot about brand and just the story you know brand tells and just the story you know brand tells and just the story you know brand tells a story and so how do you really capture a story and so how do you really capture a story and so how do you really capture that in your culture that's something that in your culture that's something that in your culture that's something that's really been like i'm really that's really been like i'm really that's really been like i'm really brewing through a lot of that stuff brewing through a lot of that stuff brewing through a lot of that stuff right now and challenging myself to right now and challenging myself to right now and challenging myself to create amazing uh resources that show create amazing uh resources that show create amazing uh resources that show the brand and not always the word you the brand and not always the word you the brand and not always the word you know it's like getting it twitterable know it's like getting it twitterable know it's like getting it twitterable and memorable and making it right and memorable and making it right and memorable and making it right instead of like what what what do i do instead of like what what what do i do instead of like what what what do i do with brand man that has been something with brand man that has been something with brand man that has been something that book has really opened my eyes to a that book has really opened my eyes to a that book has really opened my eyes to a lot of things very cool creativity inc

lot of things very cool creativity inc lot of things very cool creativity inc that's a great book fantastic all right that's a great book fantastic all right that's a great book fantastic all right just two more uh so uh influential just two more uh so uh influential just two more uh so uh influential leader that you'd love to spend some leader that you'd love to spend some leader that you'd love to spend some time with anybody in the world you could time with anybody in the world you could time with anybody in the world you could pick anybody in the world you get 15 pick anybody in the world you get 15 pick anybody in the world you get 15 minutes with them uh who would you want minutes with them uh who would you want minutes with them uh who would you want to spend that time with and why wow so to spend that time with and why wow so to spend that time with and why wow so shane duffy at new spring church he is shane duffy at new spring church he is shane duffy at new spring church he is one of my all-time favorite people in one of my all-time favorite people in one of my all-time favorite people in the world i mean i don't care if i could the world i mean i don't care if i could the world i mean i don't care if i could go meet with with peter and paul i'd go meet with with peter and paul i'd go meet with with peter and paul i'd want him to be there too the guy's want him to be there too the guy's want him to be there too the guy's wisdom in his sleep man so i love that wisdom in his sleep man so i love that wisdom in his sleep man so i love that guy i mean spend more time with him um i guy i mean spend more time with him um i guy i mean spend more time with him um i would love to go out tomorrow and go would love to go out tomorrow and go would love to go out tomorrow and go hang out with carrie newhalf i just want hang out with carrie newhalf i just want hang out with carrie newhalf i just want to get to know that guy and kind of to get to know that guy and kind of to get to know that guy and kind of learn what he does and do whatever um so learn what he does and do whatever um so learn what he does and do whatever um so those are two guys right there that i those are two guys right there that i those are two guys right there that i just i mean if i could just meet with just i mean if i could just meet with just i mean if i could just meet with anybody right now i feel like i could anybody right now i feel like i could anybody right now i feel like i could just make just i just learned so much just make just i just learned so much just make just i just learned so much from those guys already so let's just from those guys already so let's just from those guys already so let's just keep doing it very cool all right last keep doing it very cool all right last keep doing it very cool all right last question so what do you do for fun when question so what do you do for fun when question so what do you do for fun when you're not helping churches with your you're not helping churches with your you're not helping churches with your six routes and you know talking to six routes and you know talking to six routes and you know talking to everybody all over the world and you everybody all over the world and you everybody all over the world and you know all that so what do you do just for know all that so what do you do just for know all that so what do you do just for fun just to kick back and you know enjoy fun just to kick back and you know enjoy fun just to kick back and you know enjoy life a little bit i love my family i life a little bit i love my family i life a little bit i love my family i mean we're an adventure junkie family i mean we're an adventure junkie family i mean we're an adventure junkie family i mean i'm telling you every other other mean i'm telling you every other other mean i'm telling you every other other weekend i'm in the woods somewhere weekend i'm in the woods somewhere weekend i'm in the woods somewhere you know we're big trail people you may you know we're big trail people you may you know we're big trail people you may see me on instagram you're going to see see me on instagram you're going to see see me on instagram you're going to see some picture of some forest i'm in um some picture of some forest i'm in um some picture of some forest i'm in um but i do run a lot i'm a big runner i but i do run a lot i'm a big runner i but i do run a lot i'm a big runner i probably do like 35 miles a week that probably do like 35 miles a week that probably do like 35 miles a week that keeps me keeps me keeps me grounded you know because i got a lot of grounded you know because i got a lot of grounded you know because i got a lot of energy energy energy but those are just some of my favorites but those are just some of my favorites but those are just some of my favorites man very cool well chris i appreciate

man very cool well chris i appreciate man very cool well chris i appreciate being on the show today if people want being on the show today if people want being on the show today if people want to get in touch with you or with culture to get in touch with you or with culture to get in touch with you or with culture bus how can they do that yeah i mean bus how can they do that yeah i mean bus how can they do that yeah i mean culturebus.cc culturebus.cc culturebus.cc uh that is the best site to find us at uh that is the best site to find us at uh that is the best site to find us at and man we just would love to connect and man we just would love to connect and man we just would love to connect with you hello at culturebus.cc shoot me with you hello at culturebus.cc shoot me with you hello at culturebus.cc shoot me an email i promise you one of our team an email i promise you one of our team an email i promise you one of our team members will be in touch with you within members will be in touch with you within members will be in touch with you within three hours how about that wow that is a three hours how about that wow that is a three hours how about that wow that is a big promise everybody just test them on big promise everybody just test them on big promise everybody just test them on that hello culture results send me an that hello culture results send me an that hello culture results send me an email at one a.m email at one a.m email at one a.m yeah exactly yeah exactly yeah exactly all right well thanks so much chris all right well thanks so much chris all right well thanks so much chris really appreciate that i hope you have a really appreciate that i hope you have a really appreciate that i hope you have a great weekend yeah rich love you man great weekend yeah rich love you man great weekend yeah rich love you man thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd unseminary podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary love to connect check out unseminary inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com inbox you can sign up at unseminary.com and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich on rich birch or through email rich on rich birch or through email rich on seminary.com don't forget to check out seminary.com don't forget to check out seminary.com don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at the show notes for this episode at unseminary.com unseminary.com unseminary.com it includes links to what we talked it includes links to what we talked it includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment about today and more leave a comment about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave today's episode drop by itunes and leave today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to a review thanks again for tuning in to a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary