Terry Parkman on Moving Vision to Behavior through Systems

today's on seminary podcast episode is today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by church community brought to you by church community brought to you by church community builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help builder I love how these guys help church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples church leaders make and grow disciples by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus by providing software and coaching focus on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness on improving operational effectiveness church community builder provides church community builder provides church community builder provides leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into leaders like me with insights into engagement of our church community engagement of our church community engagement of our church community helping us close the gaps that allow helping us close the gaps that allow helping us close the gaps that allow people to slip away unnoticed visit people to slip away unnoticed visit people to slip away unnoticed visit church community builder calm to learn church community builder calm to learn church community builder calm to learn more welcome to the unseen airy podcast more welcome to the unseen airy podcast more welcome to the unseen airy podcast are you looking for practical ministry are you looking for practical ministry are you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further help to drive your ministry further help to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast okay this week's on seminary podcast okay this week's on seminary podcast okay everybody welcome to the unset Maneri everybody welcome to the unset Maneri everybody welcome to the unset Maneri podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around podcast my name is rich the host around these parts so glad that you've taken these parts so glad that you've taken these parts so glad that you've taken some time to be with us today you know some time to be with us today you know some time to be with us today you know hear it on seminary the reason why we do hear it on seminary the reason why we do hear it on seminary the reason why we do all these resources blog posts or all these resources blog posts or all these resources blog posts or podcasts is that 93% of churches in our podcasts is that 93% of churches in our podcasts is that 93% of churches in our country are losing ground against that country are losing ground against that country are losing ground against that the growth of the communities around the growth of the communities around the growth of the communities around them the reality of it is most churches them the reality of it is most churches them the reality of it is most churches aren't you know aren't really making an aren't you know aren't really making an aren't you know aren't really making an impact in their community well today impact in their community well today impact in their community well today we're going to get a chance to look we're going to get a chance to look we're going to get a chance to look under the hood of a great church under the hood of a great church under the hood of a great church actually we've had a few members of actually we've had a few members of actually we've had a few members of their team on in the past and we're their team on in the past and we're their team on in the past and we're getting to get an opportunity today to getting to get an opportunity today to getting to get an opportunity today to talk to Terry parkman from River Valley talk to Terry parkman from River Valley talk to Terry parkman from River Valley Church this is a fantastic church I Church this is a fantastic church I Church this is a fantastic church I believe they have nine campuses if I'm believe they have nine campuses if I'm believe they have nine campuses if I'm counting right if my math accounts up counting right if my math accounts up counting right if my math accounts up right about 6,500 people in the Twin right about 6,500 people in the Twin right about 6,500 people in the Twin Cities in Minnesota Terry welcome to the Cities in Minnesota Terry welcome to the Cities in Minnesota Terry welcome to the show Terry is the next gen pasture

show Terry is the next gen pasture show Terry is the next gen pasture they're so really oversees a wide swath they're so really oversees a wide swath they're so really oversees a wide swath of ministry why don't we start by you of ministry why don't we start by you of ministry why don't we start by you telling us a little bit refresh us about telling us a little bit refresh us about telling us a little bit refresh us about river valley and then give us a sense of river valley and then give us a sense of river valley and then give us a sense of your ministry there awesome well river your ministry there awesome well river your ministry there awesome well river valley is a multi-site church we do have valley is a multi-site church we do have valley is a multi-site church we do have well we actually have eight domestic well we actually have eight domestic well we actually have eight domestic campuses and to international campuses campuses and to international campuses campuses and to international campuses one in valencia spain won in swaziland one in valencia spain won in swaziland one in valencia spain won in swaziland africa and then we have another eight africa and then we have another eight africa and then we have another eight around minneapolis and the metro area my around minneapolis and the metro area my around minneapolis and the metro area my role is as a next gen pastor and that's role is as a next gen pastor and that's role is as a next gen pastor and that's kind of twofold I'm lead youth pastor kind of twofold I'm lead youth pastor kind of twofold I'm lead youth pastor sum over all the youth groups and sum over all the youth groups and sum over all the youth groups and moreover the youth pastors in developing moreover the youth pastors in developing moreover the youth pastors in developing strategy and systems and I'm also over strategy and systems and I'm also over strategy and systems and I'm also over our school of ministry called River our school of ministry called River our school of ministry called River Valley leadership institute in charge of Valley leadership institute in charge of Valley leadership institute in charge of developing emerging developing emerging developing emerging leaders as well as the leadership leaders as well as the leadership leaders as well as the leadership pipeline in our church very cool well pipeline in our church very cool well pipeline in our church very cool well that's a huge area to oversee obviously that's a huge area to oversee obviously that's a huge area to oversee obviously a lot of moving parts there one of the a lot of moving parts there one of the a lot of moving parts there one of the things that i appreciate but really things that i appreciate but really things that i appreciate but really River Valley is it really does seem to River Valley is it really does seem to River Valley is it really does seem to be a fairly you know vision driven be a fairly you know vision driven be a fairly you know vision driven church there seems to be a clear idea of church there seems to be a clear idea of church there seems to be a clear idea of where God is leading your church there's where God is leading your church there's where God is leading your church there's not a lot of ambiguity on that if if not a lot of ambiguity on that if if not a lot of ambiguity on that if if you're looking for a church to kind of you're looking for a church to kind of you're looking for a church to kind of track with and get a sense of that River track with and get a sense of that River track with and get a sense of that River Valley would be a great church to do Valley would be a great church to do Valley would be a great church to do that but but there's there's another that but but there's there's another that but but there's there's another level to that which is River Valley level to that which is River Valley level to that which is River Valley seems to be able to translate its vision seems to be able to translate its vision seems to be able to translate its vision into reality that seems to be one of into reality that seems to be one of into reality that seems to be one of those churches that's that it's not just those churches that's that it's not just those churches that's that it's not just kind of pie in the sky ideas it's kind of pie in the sky ideas it's kind of pie in the sky ideas it's actually you know making traction on the actually you know making traction on the actually you know making traction on the ground is that your is that your sense ground is that your is that your sense ground is that your is that your sense of it give us a sense of kind of the of it give us a sense of kind of the of it give us a sense of kind of the vision versus execution stuff that's vision versus execution stuff that's vision versus execution stuff that's going on at river valley yeah so pastor going on at river valley yeah so pastor going on at river valley yeah so pastor rob our lead pastor is all vision and rob our lead pastor is all vision and rob our lead pastor is all vision and the wonderful thing about him is so many

the wonderful thing about him is so many the wonderful thing about him is so many times Lee pastors get to get the times Lee pastors get to get the times Lee pastors get to get the stereotype of being visionaries and then stereotype of being visionaries and then stereotype of being visionaries and then making everybody do the grunt work but making everybody do the grunt work but making everybody do the grunt work but the pastor rob is he'll come up with the pastor rob is he'll come up with the pastor rob is he'll come up with this big vision and then he'll say and this big vision and then he'll say and this big vision and then he'll say and this is how I see it done so he's very this is how I see it done so he's very this is how I see it done so he's very much in right brain out left and then much in right brain out left and then much in right brain out left and then he'll systemize it and then he'll say he'll systemize it and then he'll say he'll systemize it and then he'll say this is a pathway to making it this this is a pathway to making it this this is a pathway to making it this creative expression and so because of creative expression and so because of creative expression and so because of that he kind of threw his own personal that he kind of threw his own personal that he kind of threw his own personal leadership style hits the wide gamut of leadership style hits the wide gamut of leadership style hits the wide gamut of everybody else's leadership style so as everybody else's leadership style so as everybody else's leadership style so as we hear it we're asking ourselves where we hear it we're asking ourselves where we hear it we're asking ourselves where do I jump in on it do I do this one so do I jump in on it do I do this one so do I jump in on it do I do this one so if you look at his vision like a train if you look at his vision like a train if you look at his vision like a train it's which boxcar do I belong on mmm do it's which boxcar do I belong on mmm do it's which boxcar do I belong on mmm do it it's already moving forward so that's it it's already moving forward so that's it it's already moving forward so that's that question the question is how do we that question the question is how do we that question the question is how do we do to make our boxcar the best as it do to make our boxcar the best as it do to make our boxcar the best as it goes on that journey and look at it from goes on that journey and look at it from goes on that journey and look at it from that perspective helps us to believe in that perspective helps us to believe in that perspective helps us to believe in the vision right away so many people say the vision right away so many people say the vision right away so many people say how do I get on board to make the vision how do I get on board to make the vision how do I get on board to make the vision happen both assume the vision is already happen both assume the vision is already happen both assume the vision is already happening because if God gave it to us happening because if God gave it to us happening because if God gave it to us is being implemented already then we is being implemented already then we is being implemented already then we just have to operate from the place of just have to operate from the place of just have to operate from the place of how do I make this journey better mmm how do I make this journey better mmm how do I make this journey better mmm now I think so I think so many people now I think so I think so many people now I think so I think so many people they they would like to do that they they they would like to do that they they they would like to do that they feel like I want to plug in on a vision feel like I want to plug in on a vision feel like I want to plug in on a vision but I have a hard time figuring out what but I have a hard time figuring out what but I have a hard time figuring out what their piece of the puzzle is or how you their piece of the puzzle is or how you their piece of the puzzle is or how you know what they can contribute you know know what they can contribute you know know what they can contribute you know what's that been like for you well for what's that been like for you well for what's that been like for you well for me it's I think one of the biggest me it's I think one of the biggest me it's I think one of the biggest things is knowing yourself and knowing things is knowing yourself and knowing things is knowing yourself and knowing your own leadership style and being with your own leadership style and being with your own leadership style and being with owning it you know so many people don't owning it you know so many people don't owning it you know so many people don't want to anchor down especially with this want to anchor down especially with this want to anchor down especially with this millennial postmodern generation red millennial postmodern generation red millennial postmodern generation red even put modern to where they're like even put modern to where they're like even put modern to where they're like I want to be a part of something but I I want to be a part of something but I I want to be a part of something but I don't want to commit to something and it don't want to commit to something and it don't want to commit to something and it Parkins back to our own process to it's Parkins back to our own process to it's Parkins back to our own process to it's like if I say I'm this then I'm also

like if I say I'm this then I'm also like if I say I'm this then I'm also saying I'm not this right and various saying I'm not this right and various saying I'm not this right and various people are doing that but once you're people are doing that but once you're people are doing that but once you're able to learn your own leadership style able to learn your own leadership style able to learn your own leadership style your strengths and your weaknesses and your strengths and your weaknesses and your strengths and your weaknesses and celebrate both of them then you're able celebrate both of them then you're able celebrate both of them then you're able to say well this is my lane and if I to say well this is my lane and if I to say well this is my lane and if I learn how to stand my lane that's where learn how to stand my lane that's where learn how to stand my lane that's where God is going to bless me the most is by God is going to bless me the most is by God is going to bless me the most is by by owning the lane he gave me in essence by owning the lane he gave me in essence by owning the lane he gave me in essence biblically carrying the cross he gave me biblically carrying the cross he gave me biblically carrying the cross he gave me and so it's very important to know and so it's very important to know and so it's very important to know yourself and to know your place in the yourself and to know your place in the yourself and to know your place in the process and secondarily to place your process and secondarily to place your process and secondarily to place your value on the table because place your value on the table because place your value on the table because place your value on the table other people will do value on the table other people will do value on the table other people will do it for you and it might not look so it for you and it might not look so it for you and it might not look so that's why it's idle to know yourself that's why it's idle to know yourself that's why it's idle to know yourself and then right into the entire process and then right into the entire process and then right into the entire process very cool well you mentioned systems a very cool well you mentioned systems a very cool well you mentioned systems a little bit earlier can you help us little bit earlier can you help us little bit earlier can you help us understand kind of what is the place understand kind of what is the place understand kind of what is the place that systems I think sometimes we think that systems I think sometimes we think that systems I think sometimes we think our systems that's boring stuff how does our systems that's boring stuff how does our systems that's boring stuff how does that you know relate to vision how do that you know relate to vision how do that you know relate to vision how do those two fit together yeah it's so those two fit together yeah it's so those two fit together yeah it's so important to understand it's because important to understand it's because important to understand it's because Vista motel vision kills systems with Vista motel vision kills systems with Vista motel vision kills systems with vision brings life and systems scizzin vision brings life and systems scizzin vision brings life and systems scizzin systems aren't a period in and of systems aren't a period in and of systems aren't a period in and of themselves but they're a comma that lead themselves but they're a comma that lead themselves but they're a comma that lead to an outcome if at any time we become to an outcome if at any time we become to an outcome if at any time we become in love and married to the systems we in love and married to the systems we in love and married to the systems we miss it we become fairest seiko we miss it we become fairest seiko we miss it we become fairest seiko we become very la driven and we want to become very la driven and we want to become very la driven and we want to make sure that we are in line with the make sure that we are in line with the make sure that we are in line with the vision the heart of the law you know and vision the heart of the law you know and vision the heart of the law you know and so I I heard a story about vision so I I heard a story about vision so I I heard a story about vision systems one time and I kind of blew up systems one time and I kind of blew up systems one time and I kind of blew up this whole thing that God gave me and this whole thing that God gave me and this whole thing that God gave me and it's it's systems are in essence this it's it's systems are in essence this it's it's systems are in essence this they create behavior and so if I tell my they create behavior and so if I tell my they create behavior and so if I tell my daughter I want her to take out the daughter I want her to take out the daughter I want her to take out the garbage once a week and every time she garbage once a week and every time she garbage once a week and every time she does she gets a twenty-dollar allowance

does she gets a twenty-dollar allowance does she gets a twenty-dollar allowance which is ridiculously generous I think which is ridiculously generous I think which is ridiculously generous I think so and she it's time to take out the so and she it's time to take out the so and she it's time to take out the garbage and I say take out the garbage garbage and I say take out the garbage garbage and I say take out the garbage later dad take out the garbage I'll do later dad take out the garbage I'll do later dad take out the garbage I'll do it when I get around to it and I take it when I get around to it and I take it when I get around to it and I take out the garbage for her and then when out the garbage for her and then when out the garbage for her and then when she asked me for allowance I give her she asked me for allowance I give her she asked me for allowance I give her allowance I don't have a bad kid I have allowance I don't have a bad kid I have allowance I don't have a bad kid I have a bad system cuz I'm just rewarded bad a bad system cuz I'm just rewarded bad a bad system cuz I'm just rewarded bad behavior and so she knows I can get a behavior and so she knows I can get a behavior and so she knows I can get a reward for bad behavior so I don't have reward for bad behavior so I don't have reward for bad behavior so I don't have a bad kid have a bad system but if I say a bad kid have a bad system but if I say a bad kid have a bad system but if I say take out the garbage and she says later take out the garbage and she says later take out the garbage and she says later and then I take it out and she comes in and then I take it out and she comes in and then I take it out and she comes in ask for allowance I say oh this twenty ask for allowance I say oh this twenty ask for allowance I say oh this twenty bucks oh and this is next week's they're bucks oh and this is next week's they're bucks oh and this is next week's they're mine how about you take out the garbage mine how about you take out the garbage mine how about you take out the garbage for two more weeks and then you'll get for two more weeks and then you'll get for two more weeks and then you'll get allowance again I guarantee you she'll allowance again I guarantee you she'll allowance again I guarantee you she'll take out the take out the take out the garbage not because she's a good kid but garbage not because she's a good kid but garbage not because she's a good kid but because I have a good system so and when because I have a good system so and when because I have a good system so and when I heard that illustration it just kind I heard that illustration it just kind I heard that illustration it just kind of blew up on my mind how to usher a of blew up on my mind how to usher a of blew up on my mind how to usher a vision into making it a movement into vision into making it a movement into vision into making it a movement into actual izing it and I see it this way actual izing it and I see it this way actual izing it and I see it this way vision systems behave your culture vision systems behave your culture vision systems behave your culture movement mmm okay vision let him go movement mmm okay vision let him go movement mmm okay vision let him go through like wish your vision systems through like wish your vision systems through like wish your vision systems behavior culture movement kind of in a behavior culture movement kind of in a behavior culture movement kind of in a you know in a spectrum there yes you know in a spectrum there yes you know in a spectrum there yes absolutely in and I've applied this to absolutely in and I've applied this to absolutely in and I've applied this to every area whether there's greeters every area whether there's greeters every area whether there's greeters walking in a door people working your walking in a door people working your walking in a door people working your hospitality people on the stage doing hospitality people on the stage doing hospitality people on the stage doing announcements and flow there's no announcements and flow there's no announcements and flow there's no anointing for announcement so what kind anointing for announcement so what kind anointing for announcement so what kind of behavior who I want to do I want to of behavior who I want to do I want to of behavior who I want to do I want to create what kind of be so I look at the create what kind of be so I look at the create what kind of be so I look at the vision God's given me and I say okay vision God's given me and I say okay vision God's given me and I say okay this is the vision I don't want people this is the vision I don't want people this is the vision I don't want people behaving this way and so what many behaving this way and so what many behaving this way and so what many people do is they just keep yelling the people do is they just keep yelling the people do is they just keep yelling the vision louder louder soldier eventually vision louder louder soldier eventually vision louder louder soldier eventually behave our job isn't to our isn't to behave our job isn't to our isn't to behave our job isn't to our isn't to yell louder is to systemize the vision

yell louder is to systemize the vision yell louder is to systemize the vision so that mean will behave when that way so that mean will behave when that way so that mean will behave when that way if people are behaving according to the if people are behaving according to the if people are behaving according to the vision I don't say i miss god and throw vision I don't say i miss god and throw vision I don't say i miss god and throw away the vision mm-hmm how many pastors away the vision mm-hmm how many pastors away the vision mm-hmm how many pastors are more comfortable saying i miss God are more comfortable saying i miss God are more comfortable saying i miss God rather than systemizing it I what I say rather than systemizing it I what I say rather than systemizing it I what I say is oh the behavior doesn't look like the is oh the behavior doesn't look like the is oh the behavior doesn't look like the vision let me tweak my systems tweek vision let me tweak my systems tweek vision let me tweak my systems tweek tweek tweek tweak their out the behavior tweek tweek tweak their out the behavior tweek tweek tweak their out the behavior looks like the systems mmm add in the looks like the systems mmm add in the looks like the systems mmm add in the next step how do I make this behavior a next step how do I make this behavior a next step how do I make this behavior a culture mm-hmm still value whenever you culture mm-hmm still value whenever you culture mm-hmm still value whenever you speak value into a collective behavior speak value into a collective behavior speak value into a collective behavior that collective behavior becomes a that collective behavior becomes a that collective behavior becomes a culture mmm have a worship culture well culture mmm have a worship culture well culture mmm have a worship culture well because people collectively value because people collectively value because people collectively value behaving that way and because the speak behaving that way and because the speak behaving that way and because the speak value into behavior becomes a culture value into behavior becomes a culture value into behavior becomes a culture now does a culture look like the vision now does a culture look like the vision now does a culture look like the vision no well I look at the behavior then I no well I look at the behavior then I no well I look at the behavior then I don't look at the system at the behavior don't look at the system at the behavior don't look at the system at the behavior no the behavior looks fine so I'm no the behavior looks fine so I'm no the behavior looks fine so I'm speaking the wrong value mmm okay and speaking the wrong value mmm okay and speaking the wrong value mmm okay and how many times do we change the wrong how many times do we change the wrong how many times do we change the wrong thing to try to fix the right thing mmm thing to try to fix the right thing mmm thing to try to fix the right thing mmm it's what does is it holds us it's what does is it holds us it's what does is it holds us accountable and therefore if the culture accountable and therefore if the culture accountable and therefore if the culture then looks like the vision and then God then looks like the vision and then God then looks like the vision and then God blesses it it becomes a movement because blesses it it becomes a movement because blesses it it becomes a movement because you've stoop yes right so God job is the you've stoop yes right so God job is the you've stoop yes right so God job is the vision in the movement right the Wills vision in the movement right the Wills vision in the movement right the Wills job are the behavior in the culture our job are the behavior in the culture our job are the behavior in the culture our top is the system's very cool now can top is the system's very cool now can top is the system's very cool now can you give me some kind of practical you give me some kind of practical you give me some kind of practical examples how you've kind of either had examples how you've kind of either had examples how you've kind of either had to tweak some of the systems or you know to tweak some of the systems or you know to tweak some of the systems or you know is is is you know some gives some practical you know some gives some practical you know some gives some practical examples of how you had to see that you examples of how you had to see that you examples of how you had to see that you know happen at River Valley yeah when know happen at River Valley yeah when know happen at River Valley yeah when number one is a worship culture so number one is a worship culture so number one is a worship culture so sitter we want and this is comes from sitter we want and this is comes from sitter we want and this is comes from previous ministry experience current

previous ministry experience current previous ministry experience current Minister experience but if I want Minister experience but if I want Minister experience but if I want students to come up front said God gives students to come up front said God gives students to come up front said God gives me a vision and say we need students out me a vision and say we need students out me a vision and say we need students out of their comfort zone up front of their comfort zone up front of their comfort zone up front worshiping mmm I see it in my head so I worshiping mmm I see it in my head so I worshiping mmm I see it in my head so I articulate division when I first did articulate division when I first did articulate division when I first did this my first year ministry my first this my first year ministry my first this my first year ministry my first month I said all right everybody make it month I said all right everybody make it month I said all right everybody make it way to the front let's worship here was way to the front let's worship here was way to the front let's worship here was this I've had in place the lights were this I've had in place the lights were this I've had in place the lights were up there was no music there uh them to up there was no music there uh them to up there was no music there uh them to mingle they were had to get up stand up mingle they were had to get up stand up mingle they were had to get up stand up out of their seats climb over one out of their seats climb over one out of their seats climb over one another and slowly mingle to the front another and slowly mingle to the front another and slowly mingle to the front the worship he was coming out of the the worship he was coming out of the the worship he was coming out of the crowd climbing up on stage plugging in crowd climbing up on stage plugging in crowd climbing up on stage plugging in and clanking around and testing and clanking around and testing and clanking around and testing everything out and I would just Yelp everything out and I would just Yelp everything out and I would just Yelp over and over come on up right and I got over and over come on up right and I got over and over come on up right and I got to a place where i said my students to a place where i said my students to a place where i said my students don't love worship right right right I don't love worship right right right I don't love worship right right right I have a good vision it's my students I have a good vision it's my students I have a good vision it's my students I realized it was a systematic thing I realized it was a systematic thing I realized it was a systematic thing I changed it so I said all right I want to changed it so I said all right I want to changed it so I said all right I want to create the atmosphere for the behavior create the atmosphere for the behavior create the atmosphere for the behavior to take place and so I said all right to take place and so I said all right to take place and so I said all right everybody let's stand up find five everybody let's stand up find five everybody let's stand up find five people you never met before telling what people you never met before telling what people you never met before telling what your favorite candy is already going on your favorite candy is already going on your favorite candy is already going on vacation or what you want for christmas vacation or what you want for christmas vacation or what you want for christmas the lights would go down the stage the lights would go down the stage the lights would go down the stage lights would be black music would come lights would be black music would come lights would be black music would come up students would get up and talk to one up students would get up and talk to one up students would get up and talk to one another the worship team would be another the worship team would be another the worship team would be plugging in but nobody sees the worship plugging in but nobody sees the worship plugging in but nobody sees the worship team because they're busy looking at team because they're busy looking at team because they're busy looking at each other right and when first routine each other right and when first routine each other right and when first routine gives me a thumbs up I give the thumbs gives me a thumbs up I give the thumbs gives me a thumbs up I give the thumbs up to the sound booth they lower the up to the sound booth they lower the up to the sound booth they lower the music raise the lights I say all right music raise the lights I say all right music raise the lights I say all right everybody grab your friend bring him up everybody grab your friend bring him up everybody grab your friend bring him up front let's get ready for worship and front let's get ready for worship and front let's get ready for worship and what was is it was a lot easier to move what was is it was a lot easier to move what was is it was a lot easier to move from your location to up front then to from your location to up front then to from your location to up front then to climb over each other go back to your climb over each other go back to your climb over each other go back to your seats right and so people started seats right and so people started seats right and so people started behaving a certain way coming up for behaving a certain way coming up for behaving a certain way coming up for worship well after that win for about worship well after that win for about worship well after that win for about four weeks I began to speak value mmm so four weeks I began to speak value mmm so four weeks I began to speak value mmm so to recently get out of our seats is to recently get out of our seats is to recently get out of our seats is because God isn't up front God and we

because God isn't up front God and we because God isn't up front God and we want to get up front with him and so want to get up front with him and so want to get up front with him and so many times when I'm in my seat I'm many times when I'm in my seat I'm many times when I'm in my seat I'm thinking about something else but when thinking about something else but when thinking about something else but when I'm up front with him it's just me and I'm up front with him it's just me and I'm up front with him it's just me and Jesus mmm pretty soon that became a Jesus mmm pretty soon that became a Jesus mmm pretty soon that became a culture now so many people say well culture now so many people say well culture now so many people say well isn't that manipulation well when I isn't that manipulation well when I isn't that manipulation well when I brought my daughter home from China brought my daughter home from China brought my daughter home from China adopted my daughter hurt her bedroom was adopted my daughter hurt her bedroom was adopted my daughter hurt her bedroom was amazed by his soft light soft music amazed by his soft light soft music amazed by his soft light soft music colorful things stuffed animals did she colorful things stuffed animals did she colorful things stuffed animals did she care well she was a baby but as a parent care well she was a baby but as a parent care well she was a baby but as a parent I wanted to provide an atmosphere of I wanted to provide an atmosphere of I wanted to provide an atmosphere of security is that manipulation or is that security is that manipulation or is that security is that manipulation or is that just good parenting just good parenting just good parenting very good in youth or is that just good very good in youth or is that just good very good in youth or is that just good shepherding right and so that's kind of shepherding right and so that's kind of shepherding right and so that's kind of one of the examples that I've used one of the examples that I've used one of the examples that I've used that's very good i think you know as that's very good i think you know as that's very good i think you know as leaders our job another way just to say leaders our job another way just to say leaders our job another way just to say what you're saying is our job is to what you're saying is our job is to what you're saying is our job is to remove the friction in the direction remove the friction in the direction remove the friction in the direction that we're hoping people will go in so that we're hoping people will go in so that we're hoping people will go in so whatever it is that you're in your case whatever it is that you're in your case whatever it is that you're in your case whatever behavior you want people to to whatever behavior you want people to to whatever behavior you want people to to live out our job is to remove the the live out our job is to remove the the live out our job is to remove the the system should be removing friction in system should be removing friction in system should be removing friction in that direction now the opposite of that that direction now the opposite of that that direction now the opposite of that is true we actually want to put friction is true we actually want to put friction is true we actually want to put friction in in in way of people going in the in in in way of people going in the in in in way of people going in the direction we don't want them to go or direction we don't want them to go or direction we don't want them to go or you know to behave in our weight so you you know to behave in our weight so you you know to behave in our weight so you know the way to set is the main thing know the way to set is the main thing know the way to set is the main thing should be the plane thing so the easiest should be the plane thing so the easiest should be the plane thing so the easiest thing that or the next step you want thing that or the next step you want thing that or the next step you want people to take needs to be obvious needs people to take needs to be obvious needs people to take needs to be obvious needs to be strategic needs to be super clear to be strategic needs to be super clear to be strategic needs to be super clear yeah you know for sure a changing yeah you know for sure a changing yeah you know for sure a changing direction a little bit I saw something direction a little bit I saw something direction a little bit I saw something on your site around a program called on your site around a program called on your site around a program called ignite can you tell me of what is ignite ignite can you tell me of what is ignite ignite can you tell me of what is ignite at at River Valley okay so ignite is our at at River Valley okay so ignite is our at at River Valley okay so ignite is our discipleship process for you okk discipleship process for you okk discipleship process for you okk centralizes are our small group life

centralizes are our small group life centralizes are our small group life group format okay it really came out of group format okay it really came out of group format okay it really came out of what I came out of my dissatisfaction what I came out of my dissatisfaction what I came out of my dissatisfaction for what was being produced in small for what was being produced in small for what was being produced in small groups hmm and not just at River Valley groups hmm and not just at River Valley groups hmm and not just at River Valley is before I gotcha River Valley but I is before I gotcha River Valley but I is before I gotcha River Valley but I realized that students were taking realized that students were taking realized that students were taking ownership for their faith and because of ownership for their faith and because of ownership for their faith and because of that they admit we have the statistic of that they admit we have the statistic of that they admit we have the statistic of 86 whatever percentage falling away from 86 whatever percentage falling away from 86 whatever percentage falling away from faith after high school why because it's faith after high school why because it's faith after high school why because it's their parents faith since their churches their parents faith since their churches their parents faith since their churches faith is there youth groups way and what faith is there youth groups way and what faith is there youth groups way and what I found especially in this generation is I found especially in this generation is I found especially in this generation is we have people more in love with a we have people more in love with a we have people more in love with a Christian culture than we do the Christ Christian culture than we do the Christ Christian culture than we do the Christ of their culture so good leave their of their culture so good leave their of their culture so good leave their atmosphere of their contracts they're atmosphere of their contracts they're atmosphere of their contracts they're also leaving a Christian culture and also leaving a Christian culture and also leaving a Christian culture and going into a place where there probably going into a place where there probably going into a place where there probably isn't isn't one even in some Bible isn't isn't one even in some Bible isn't isn't one even in some Bible colleges let's be honest right and colleges let's be honest right and colleges let's be honest right and subsonic Christian culture they fall subsonic Christian culture they fall subsonic Christian culture they fall away from their faith and so when I want away from their faith and so when I want away from their faith and so when I want because I want to make them more in love because I want to make them more in love because I want to make them more in love with the Christ of their culture so what with the Christ of their culture so what with the Christ of their culture so what it is we brought them together and it's it is we brought them together and it's it is we brought them together and it's a two-hour atmosphere and we call it a two-hour atmosphere and we call it a two-hour atmosphere and we call it discipleship and let's call small groups discipleship and let's call small groups discipleship and let's call small groups what they are by and large your what they are by and large your what they are by and large your relationship mmm okay anybody and say relationship mmm okay anybody and say relationship mmm okay anybody and say what are your small groups and I am what are your small groups and I am what are your small groups and I am what's your splits your discipleship what's your splits your discipleship what's your splits your discipleship plan they'll say small groups right okis plan they'll say small groups right okis plan they'll say small groups right okis leading those small groups are they deep leading those small groups are they deep leading those small groups are they deep enough to lead those small groups are enough to lead those small groups are enough to lead those small groups are they willing to have the hard they willing to have the hard they willing to have the hard conversations and maybe conversations and maybe conversations and maybe disenfranchised some people with the disenfranchised some people with the disenfranchised some people with the word of God in order to bring depth to word of God in order to bring depth to word of God in order to bring depth to it and here's the thing with with a lot it and here's the thing with with a lot it and here's the thing with with a lot of small groups they're moralistic of small groups they're moralistic of small groups they're moralistic therapeutic dias groups I mean is it's therapeutic dias groups I mean is it's therapeutic dias groups I mean is it's very like I want people to feel good very like I want people to feel good very like I want people to feel good about themselves right I wanted to know about themselves right I wanted to know about themselves right I wanted to know that they belong here and I want them to that they belong here and I want them to that they belong here and I want them to come back right what am I removing to come back right what am I removing to come back right what am I removing to make that happen mm-hmm so what I did is

make that happen mm-hmm so what I did is make that happen mm-hmm so what I did is I made ignite because i believe I made ignite because i believe I made ignite because i believe discipleship flows down relationship discipleship flows down relationship discipleship flows down relationship flows out Jesus didn't delegate flows out Jesus didn't delegate flows out Jesus didn't delegate discipleship with his disciples he did discipleship with his disciples he did discipleship with his disciples he did it mm-hmm so we show up is let me just it mm-hmm so we show up is let me just it mm-hmm so we show up is let me just do the format six to eight o'clock show do the format six to eight o'clock show do the format six to eight o'clock show up we give them food six to 615 they up we give them food six to 615 they up we give them food six to 615 they talk and we have great music going on talk and we have great music going on talk and we have great music going on and we have a couch pick kind of created and we have a couch pick kind of created and we have a couch pick kind of created in the center so it's more in the center so it's more in the center so it's more conversational they're not in rows or in conversational they're not in rows or in conversational they're not in rows or in like settings then they grab food and at like settings then they grab food and at like settings then they grab food and at six-fifteen they sit down and we give a six-fifteen they sit down and we give a six-fifteen they sit down and we give a few announcements and then we say what few announcements and then we say what few announcements and then we say what are some questions that you have that are some questions that you have that are some questions that you have that have been lying at you about the Word of have been lying at you about the Word of have been lying at you about the Word of God or what's happening in the world God or what's happening in the world God or what's happening in the world today what do you want to know about today what do you want to know about today what do you want to know about anything and students ask any question anything and students ask any question anything and students ask any question in every question hmm we don't we don't in every question hmm we don't we don't in every question hmm we don't we don't philosophically or even via logically philosophically or even via logically philosophically or even via logically answer the question we biblically answer the question we biblically answer the question we biblically actually they're quite okay yeah and so actually they're quite okay yeah and so actually they're quite okay yeah and so we what we want to do is not give we what we want to do is not give we what we want to do is not give students to answer but your students the students to answer but your students the students to answer but your students the process okay everything in our journey process okay everything in our journey process okay everything in our journey is about process it's not about answers is about process it's not about answers is about process it's not about answers answers have never made us to make the answers have never made us to make the answers have never made us to make the journey better you know unfortunately journey better you know unfortunately journey better you know unfortunately they haven't why did God do this well they haven't why did God do this well they haven't why did God do this well that answer might not sit well with me that answer might not sit well with me that answer might not sit well with me so I have to understand the process so I have to understand the process so I have to understand the process behind it I stay answer behind behind behind it I stay answer behind behind behind it I stay answer behind behind working out your face with fear and working out your face with fear and working out your face with fear and trembling with being ready in season and trembling with being ready in season and trembling with being ready in season and out of season and always have an answer out of season and always have an answer out of season and always have an answer for your faith and so they ask any and for your faith and so they ask any and for your faith and so they ask any and every question and we answered every question and we answered every question and we answered biblically after that we kind of diving biblically after that we kind of diving biblically after that we kind of diving into the topics a Syrian refugee crisis into the topics a Syrian refugee crisis into the topics a Syrian refugee crisis mm-hmm big question that just came up so mm-hmm big question that just came up so mm-hmm big question that just came up so we made a whole ignite about that hmm we made a whole ignite about that hmm we made a whole ignite about that hmm and they asked about that and I said and they asked about that and I said and they asked about that and I said well what about you what do you think well what about you what do you think well what about you what do you think about it and it's very rabbinic in that about it and it's very rabbinic in that about it and it's very rabbinic in that you ask a question of the question until you ask a question of the question until you ask a question of the question until the answers plane okay right lead them

the answers plane okay right lead them the answers plane okay right lead them through a biblical thought process more through a biblical thought process more through a biblical thought process more than you come to a place of an answer than you come to a place of an answer than you come to a place of an answer hmm there'd that Q&A we break down into hmm there'd that Q&A we break down into hmm there'd that Q&A we break down into small groups and we have people leading small groups and we have people leading small groups and we have people leading small groups now the cool thing about small groups now the cool thing about small groups now the cool thing about our peak our leaders leading small group our peak our leaders leading small group our peak our leaders leading small group just watch me answer questions to just watch me answer questions to just watch me answer questions to process rest up they get to do it we process rest up they get to do it we process rest up they get to do it we even now hey what does the Bible say even now hey what does the Bible say even now hey what does the Bible say about the Syrian about refugees to love about the Syrian about refugees to love about the Syrian about refugees to love your neighbor as yourself that when he your neighbor as yourself that when he your neighbor as yourself that when he said that that borders weren't included said that that borders weren't included said that that borders weren't included in that statement in that statement in that statement oh well what if they are terrorists well oh well what if they are terrorists well oh well what if they are terrorists well God says that if we are already dead to God says that if we are already dead to God says that if we are already dead to ourselves and alive in him then ourselves and alive in him then ourselves and alive in him then shouldn't be about our safety it should shouldn't be about our safety it should shouldn't be about our safety it should be about me well so we really create be about me well so we really create be about me well so we really create tensions now because a lot I push up is tensions now because a lot I push up is tensions now because a lot I push up is creating attention and letting you work creating attention and letting you work creating attention and letting you work through that tension as opposed to through that tension as opposed to through that tension as opposed to giving you an answer hmm after small giving you an answer hmm after small giving you an answer hmm after small groups we go into a time of worship groups we go into a time of worship groups we go into a time of worship where we have canned worship stuff where we have canned worship stuff where we have canned worship stuff scrolling on screen prayers from the scrolling on screen prayers from the scrolling on screen prayers from the Word of God and say students God's been Word of God and say students God's been Word of God and say students God's been talking to you about something and am i talking to you about something and am i talking to you about something and am i different for all of you and going and different for all of you and going and different for all of you and going and worship and let Jesus talk to you after worship and let Jesus talk to you after worship and let Jesus talk to you after that we grab more food just to kind of that we grab more food just to kind of that we grab more food just to kind of hit reset and bring them back for a hit reset and bring them back for a hit reset and bring them back for a solid challenge and that challenge would solid challenge and that challenge would solid challenge and that challenge would be who's the refugee in your school mmm be who's the refugee in your school mmm be who's the refugee in your school mmm not just the foreign refugee but the not just the foreign refugee but the not just the foreign refugee but the American refugee the kid that was kicked American refugee the kid that was kicked American refugee the kid that was kicked away from his click right your fault of away from his click right your fault of away from his click right your fault of that person and are you willing to add that person and are you willing to add that person and are you willing to add your reputation to reach that person your reputation to reach that person your reputation to reach that person very cool very cool that's under that very cool very cool that's under that very cool very cool that's under that sounds great and and now do you do those sounds great and and now do you do those sounds great and and now do you do those it sounds fantastic obviously you're it sounds fantastic obviously you're it sounds fantastic obviously you're really pushing towards I love the really pushing towards I love the really pushing towards I love the question driven environment I love like question driven environment I love like question driven environment I love like you know called the rabbinic style of you know called the rabbinic style of you know called the rabbinic style of you know developing students I think you know developing students I think you know developing students I think that's fantastic do you do that at all that's fantastic do you do that at all that's fantastic do you do that at all of your campuses is that a you know do of your campuses is that a you know do of your campuses is that a you know do that a few of them cuz I would imagine that a few of them cuz I would imagine that a few of them cuz I would imagine would be a fairly you know a weighty

would be a fairly you know a weighty would be a fairly you know a weighty challenge for some leaders to lead that challenge for some leaders to lead that challenge for some leaders to lead that kind of environment well and that's the kind of environment well and that's the kind of environment well and that's the thing I've been doing it for about eight thing I've been doing it for about eight thing I've been doing it for about eight years some comfortable I wasn't great years some comfortable I wasn't great years some comfortable I wasn't great when I started let's be honest it's very when I started let's be honest it's very when I started let's be honest it's very hard to think biblically all the time hard to think biblically all the time hard to think biblically all the time yet without letting your emotion get yet without letting your emotion get yet without letting your emotion get into it but it happens at all of our into it but it happens at all of our into it but it happens at all of our campuses and all of our youth pastors do campuses and all of our youth pastors do campuses and all of our youth pastors do that and my goal with my youth pastors that and my goal with my youth pastors that and my goal with my youth pastors and not to give them knowledge for and not to give them knowledge for and not to give them knowledge for competency because if we're going to competency because if we're going to competency because if we're going to impact the world in advance the kingdom impact the world in advance the kingdom impact the world in advance the kingdom we can't advance the kingdom with our we can't advance the kingdom with our we can't advance the kingdom with our knowledge we only advance the kingdom knowledge we only advance the kingdom knowledge we only advance the kingdom with her competency so the journey that with her competency so the journey that with her competency so the journey that these students are going from knowledge these students are going from knowledge these students are going from knowledge to competency to influence mmm okay we to competency to influence mmm okay we to competency to influence mmm okay we don't go knowledge to influence because don't go knowledge to influence because don't go knowledge to influence because if that was the case in all of our if that was the case in all of our if that was the case in all of our Christian debates and Christian blogs Christian debates and Christian blogs Christian debates and Christian blogs would win the world to Jesus Frank can would win the world to Jesus Frank can would win the world to Jesus Frank can we become competent in love when we be we become competent in love when we be we become competent in love when we be competent in truth and we become competent in truth and we become competent in truth and we become competent in the word then that's where competent in the word then that's where competent in the word then that's where we begin to influence people when when we begin to influence people when when we begin to influence people when when you become competent in the law to show you become competent in the law to show you become competent in the law to show the sin and you bring Christ into it the sin and you bring Christ into it the sin and you bring Christ into it then that's where influence takes place then that's where influence takes place then that's where influence takes place and so I took my youth pastors on that and so I took my youth pastors on that and so I took my youth pastors on that same journey they came to watch me I do same journey they came to watch me I do same journey they came to watch me I do ignite for about a month each and they ignite for about a month each and they ignite for about a month each and they started to unfold it in their campus and started to unfold it in their campus and started to unfold it in their campus and I go campus to campus and I just bring I go campus to campus and I just bring I go campus to campus and I just bring little tweaks to the system this is the little tweaks to the system this is the little tweaks to the system this is the uncinate podcast uncinate podcast uncinate podcast if you wish they taught in seminary well if you wish they taught in seminary well if you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning we're going to jump into the lightning we're going to jump into the lightning round that's the part of the episode round that's the part of the episode round that's the part of the episode where we ask similar questions everybody where we ask similar questions everybody where we ask similar questions everybody that's on the show today we're that's on the show today we're that's on the show today we're privileged honored to have cherry privileged honored to have cherry privileged honored to have cherry Parkman with us from River Valley Church Parkman with us from River Valley Church Parkman with us from River Valley Church Terry what is a an online resource Terry what is a an online resource Terry what is a an online resource you're using these days that's that's you're using these days that's that's you're using these days that's that's helping you in your ministry an online helping you in your ministry an online helping you in your ministry an online resource I honestly man it's not as that resource I honestly man it's not as that resource I honestly man it's not as that spiritual I love watching ted ted talk spiritual I love watching ted ted talk spiritual I love watching ted ted talk are my gym and this is why because I

are my gym and this is why because I are my gym and this is why because I recognize I'm not a linear thinker so if recognize I'm not a linear thinker so if recognize I'm not a linear thinker so if i get a thought an idea it'll blow up a i get a thought an idea it'll blow up a i get a thought an idea it'll blow up a bunch of other thoughts that helped me bunch of other thoughts that helped me bunch of other thoughts that helped me to apply a spiritual context to them and to apply a spiritual context to them and to apply a spiritual context to them and so many times I haven't seen around an so many times I haven't seen around an so many times I haven't seen around an obstacle until I listen to another obstacle until I listen to another obstacle until I listen to another perspective and that perspective has perspective and that perspective has perspective and that perspective has helped me to create a system around that helped me to create a system around that helped me to create a system around that so honestly for me being a nonlinear so honestly for me being a nonlinear so honestly for me being a nonlinear thinker I love listening to TED Talks thinker I love listening to TED Talks thinker I love listening to TED Talks and then and then seeing where I can and then and then seeing where I can and then and then seeing where I can attach at into my current situation attach at into my current situation attach at into my current situation there it was probably sacrilegious to there it was probably sacrilegious to there it was probably sacrilegious to say there are no no not at all relevant say there are no no not at all relevant say there are no no not at all relevant podcast but I think everybody says that podcast but I think everybody says that podcast but I think everybody says that for me it's like dots though very cool for me it's like dots though very cool for me it's like dots though very cool very cool what's a book you've read in very cool what's a book you've read in very cool what's a book you've read in the last I don't know six months to a the last I don't know six months to a the last I don't know six months to a year that's had an impact on your year that's had an impact on your year that's had an impact on your thinking I love artist and soul by erwin thinking I love artist and soul by erwin thinking I love artist and soul by erwin mcmanus mm-hmm I love it I love the way mcmanus mm-hmm I love it I love the way mcmanus mm-hmm I love it I love the way he thinks I love the idea of the freeing he thinks I love the idea of the freeing he thinks I love the idea of the freeing of the heart of the freeing of the soul of the heart of the freeing of the soul of the heart of the freeing of the soul that you're created in the image of a that you're created in the image of a that you're created in the image of a creative God and when you create you creative God and when you create you creative God and when you create you give him the highest form of worship and give him the highest form of worship and give him the highest form of worship and I love that it's it's one of the most I love that it's it's one of the most I love that it's it's one of the most important things when we're ministry we important things when we're ministry we important things when we're ministry we become very managerial and and God has become very managerial and and God has become very managerial and and God has created us to be more than managers it's created us to be more than managers it's created us to be more than managers it's so it's so important for me to kind of so it's so important for me to kind of so it's so important for me to kind of realign myself into that mindset very realign myself into that mindset very realign myself into that mindset very cool what sort of the ministry you're cool what sort of the ministry you're cool what sort of the ministry you're looking at these days it's kind of looking at these days it's kind of looking at these days it's kind of inspiring you one of my the ministries inspiring you one of my the ministries inspiring you one of my the ministries that I really love watching is just the that I really love watching is just the that I really love watching is just the way a good friend of mine his name is way a good friend of mine his name is way a good friend of mine his name is John brownies in Kenosha Wisconsin John brownies in Kenosha Wisconsin John brownies in Kenosha Wisconsin journey church and and he's been doing journey church and and he's been doing journey church and and he's been doing youth ministry he's a veteran of the youth ministry he's a veteran of the youth ministry he's a veteran of the game and he's been doing it for a long game and he's been doing it for a long game and he's been doing it for a long time the thing I love about it is his time the thing I love about it is his time the thing I love about it is his relentless desire for a merchant relentless desire for a merchant relentless desire for a merchant generation is not so much in how he does

generation is not so much in how he does generation is not so much in how he does stuff as much as it is the process of stuff as much as it is the process of stuff as much as it is the process of his mind and and the Prophet how he his mind and and the Prophet how he his mind and and the Prophet how he processes his heart and keeps it fresh processes his heart and keeps it fresh processes his heart and keeps it fresh because it's easy to get bored in your because it's easy to get bored in your because it's easy to get bored in your contacts and that's why I think a lot of contacts and that's why I think a lot of contacts and that's why I think a lot of pastors move right before God moves them pastors move right before God moves them pastors move right before God moves them right and so I think John has very well right and so I think John has very well right and so I think John has very well has steward himself very well so I just has steward himself very well so I just has steward himself very well so I just loved watching loved watching loved watching distance is a great guy very cool well distance is a great guy very cool well distance is a great guy very cool well last question I'm sure you've got a lot last question I'm sure you've got a lot last question I'm sure you've got a lot going on you know managing all those going on you know managing all those going on you know managing all those youth pastors trying to keep on top of youth pastors trying to keep on top of youth pastors trying to keep on top of when you just want to kick back and when you just want to kick back and when you just want to kick back and relax and kind of enjoy some stuff in relax and kind of enjoy some stuff in relax and kind of enjoy some stuff in your personal life what is it that you your personal life what is it that you your personal life what is it that you what is it you do for fun well on the what is it you do for fun well on the what is it you do for fun well on the side I'm an MMA coach Wow nice martial side I'm an MMA coach Wow nice martial side I'm an MMA coach Wow nice martial arts my whole life I grew up on Air arts my whole life I grew up on Air arts my whole life I grew up on Air Force Base so my my fix was to take as Force Base so my my fix was to take as Force Base so my my fix was to take as many styles as I could when I was a kid many styles as I could when I was a kid many styles as I could when I was a kid and I kind of translated to MMA and and I kind of translated to MMA and and I kind of translated to MMA and after I got in the ministry I kind of after I got in the ministry I kind of after I got in the ministry I kind of used it as an arm to reach out to a lot used it as an arm to reach out to a lot used it as an arm to reach out to a lot of a generation to her I couldn't be put of a generation to her I couldn't be put of a generation to her I couldn't be put in their context but they're able to in their context but they're able to in their context but they're able to come in mind very cool and and it's a come in mind very cool and and it's a come in mind very cool and and it's a fun thing that and family and Netflix fun thing that and family and Netflix fun thing that and family and Netflix man yeah that's correct I kick it so man yeah that's correct I kick it so man yeah that's correct I kick it so well this has been great Terry I really well this has been great Terry I really well this has been great Terry I really appreciate be on the show today if appreciate be on the show today if appreciate be on the show today if people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or people want to get in touch with you or with the church how can they do that you with the church how can they do that you with the church how can they do that you could check out our website for the could check out our website for the could check out our website for the church you can you can email me Terry church you can you can email me Terry church you can you can email me Terry doc Parkman at River Valley org or hit doc Parkman at River Valley org or hit doc Parkman at River Valley org or hit me up on social media I'm probably more me up on social media I'm probably more me up on social media I'm probably more on that than I am on my email so I would on that than I am on my email so I would on that than I am on my email so I would love to connect with anybody very good love to connect with anybody very good love to connect with anybody very good thanks so much for being on the show thanks so much for being on the show thanks so much for being on the show today all right thank you thank you for today all right thank you thank you for today all right thank you thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncen re inbox you can connect check out uncen re inbox you can connect check out uncen re inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson

sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources every you helpful training resources every you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access week plus you'll gain immediate access week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons to our exclusive members area with tons to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you can use connect with of resources you can use connect with of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through rich on twitter at rich birch or through rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon re calm don't email rich at unsummon re calm don't email rich at unsummon re calm don't forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for forget to check out the show notes for this episode at unset maneri calm it this episode at unset maneri calm it this episode at unset maneri calm it includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about includes links to what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a episode drop by itunes and leave a episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary today's on wish they taught in seminary today's on wish they taught in seminary today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to seminary podcast episode is brought to seminary podcast episode is brought to you by church community builder I love you by church community builder I love you by church community builder I love how these guys help church leaders make how these guys help church leaders make how these guys help church leaders make and grow disciples by providing software and grow disciples by providing software and grow disciples by providing software and coaching focus on improving and coaching focus on improving and coaching focus on improving operational effectiveness church operational effectiveness church operational effectiveness church community builder provides leaders like community builder provides leaders like community builder provides leaders like me with insights into engagement of our me with insights into engagement of our me with insights into engagement of our church community helping us close the church community helping us close the church community helping us close the gaps that allow people to slip away gaps that allow people to slip away gaps that allow people to slip away unnoticed visit church community unnoticed visit church community unnoticed visit church community older calm to learn more welcome to the older calm to learn more welcome to the older calm to learn more welcome to the unsummon airy podcast are you looking unsummon airy podcast are you looking unsummon airy podcast are you looking for practical ministry help to drive her for practical ministry help to drive her for practical ministry help to drive her ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of hey you're not alone join thousands of others have pursued a stuff that we wish others have pursued a stuff that we wish others have pursued a stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast okay everybody on seminary podcast okay everybody on seminary podcast okay everybody welcome to the unset Maneri podcast my welcome to the unset Maneri podcast my welcome to the unset Maneri podcast my name is rich the host around these parts name is rich the host around these parts name is rich the host around these parts so glad that you've taken some time to so glad that you've taken some time to so glad that you've taken some time to be with us today you know hear it on be with us today you know hear it on be with us today you know hear it on seminary the reason why we do all these

seminary the reason why we do all these seminary the reason why we do all these resources blog posts or podcast is that resources blog posts or podcast is that resources blog posts or podcast is that 93% of churches in our country are 93% of churches in our country are 93% of churches in our country are losing ground against that the growth of losing ground against that the growth of losing ground against that the growth of the communities around them the reality the communities around them the reality the communities around them the reality of it is most churches aren't you know of it is most churches aren't you know of it is most churches aren't you know are really making an impact in their are really making an impact in their are really making an impact in their community well today we're going to get community well today we're going to get community well today we're going to get a chance to look under the hood of a a chance to look under the hood of a a chance to look under the hood of a great church actually we've had a few great church actually we've had a few great church actually we've had a few members of their team on in the past and members of their team on in the past and members of their team on in the past and we're getting to get an opportunity we're getting to get an opportunity we're getting to get an opportunity today to talk to Terry parkman from today to talk to Terry parkman from today to talk to Terry parkman from River Valley Church this is a fantastic River Valley Church this is a fantastic River Valley Church this is a fantastic church I believe they have nine campuses church I believe they have nine campuses church I believe they have nine campuses if I'm counting right if my math if I'm counting right if my math if I'm counting right if my math accounts up right about 6,500 people in accounts up right about 6,500 people in accounts up right about 6,500 people in the Twin Cities in Minnesota Terry the Twin Cities in Minnesota Terry the Twin Cities in Minnesota Terry welcome to the show Terry is the next welcome to the show Terry is the next welcome to the show Terry is the next gen pasture they're so really oversees a gen pasture they're so really oversees a gen pasture they're so really oversees a wide swath of ministry why don't we wide swath of ministry why don't we wide swath of ministry why don't we start by you telling us a little bit start by you telling us a little bit start by you telling us a little bit refresh us about river valley and that refresh us about river valley and that refresh us about river valley and that give us a sense of your ministry there give us a sense of your ministry there give us a sense of your ministry there awesome well River Valley is a awesome well River Valley is a awesome well River Valley is a multi-site church we do have well we multi-site church we do have well we multi-site church we do have well we actually have eight domestic campuses actually have eight domestic campuses actually have eight domestic campuses and to international campuses one in and to international campuses one in and to international campuses one in valencia spain won in swaziland africa valencia spain won in swaziland africa valencia spain won in swaziland africa and then we have another eight around and then we have another eight around and then we have another eight around minneapolis and the metro area my role minneapolis and the metro area my role minneapolis and the metro area my role is as a next gen pastor and that's kind is as a next gen pastor and that's kind is as a next gen pastor and that's kind of twofold I'm lead youth pastor sum of twofold I'm lead youth pastor sum of twofold I'm lead youth pastor sum over all the youth groups and moreover over all the youth groups and moreover over all the youth groups and moreover the youth pastors in developing strategy the youth pastors in developing strategy the youth pastors in developing strategy and systems and I'm also over our school and systems and I'm also over our school and systems and I'm also over our school of ministry called River Valley of ministry called River Valley of ministry called River Valley leadership institute in charge of leadership institute in charge of leadership institute in charge of developing emerging leaders as well as developing emerging leaders as well as developing emerging leaders as well as the leadership pipeline in our church the leadership pipeline in our church the leadership pipeline in our church very cool well that's a huge area to very cool well that's a huge area to very cool well that's a huge area to oversee obviously a lot of moving parts oversee obviously a lot of moving parts oversee obviously a lot of moving parts there one of the things that i there one of the things that i there one of the things that i appreciate but really river valley is it appreciate but really river valley is it appreciate but really river valley is it really does seem to be a fairly you know really does seem to be a fairly you know really does seem to be a fairly you know vision driven church there seems to be a

vision driven church there seems to be a vision driven church there seems to be a clear idea of where God is leading your clear idea of where God is leading your clear idea of where God is leading your church there's not a lot of ambiguity on church there's not a lot of ambiguity on church there's not a lot of ambiguity on that if if you're looking for a church that if if you're looking for a church that if if you're looking for a church to kind of track with and get a sense to kind of track with and get a sense to kind of track with and get a sense that that river valley would be a great that that river valley would be a great that that river valley would be a great church to do that church to do that church to do that but there's there's another level to but there's there's another level to but there's there's another level to that which is River Valley seems to be that which is River Valley seems to be that which is River Valley seems to be able to translate its vision into able to translate its vision into able to translate its vision into reality that seems to be one of those reality that seems to be one of those reality that seems to be one of those churches that's that it's not just kind churches that's that it's not just kind churches that's that it's not just kind of pie in the sky ideas it's actually of pie in the sky ideas it's actually of pie in the sky ideas it's actually you know making traction on the ground you know making traction on the ground you know making traction on the ground is that your is that your sense of it is that your is that your sense of it is that your is that your sense of it give us a sense of what kind of the give us a sense of what kind of the give us a sense of what kind of the vision versus execution stuff that's vision versus execution stuff that's vision versus execution stuff that's going on at River Valley yeah so pastor going on at River Valley yeah so pastor going on at River Valley yeah so pastor rob our lead pastor is all vision and rob our lead pastor is all vision and rob our lead pastor is all vision and the wonderful thing about him is so many the wonderful thing about him is so many the wonderful thing about him is so many times lead pastors get the get the times lead pastors get the get the times lead pastors get the get the stereotype of being visionaries and then stereotype of being visionaries and then stereotype of being visionaries and then making everybody do the grunt work but making everybody do the grunt work but making everybody do the grunt work but the pastor rob is he'll come up with the pastor rob is he'll come up with the pastor rob is he'll come up with this big vision and then he'll say and this big vision and then he'll say and this big vision and then he'll say and this is how i see it done so he's very this is how i see it done so he's very this is how i see it done so he's very much in right brain out left and then much in right brain out left and then much in right brain out left and then he'll systemize it and then he'll say he'll systemize it and then he'll say he'll systemize it and then he'll say this is a pathway to making it this this is a pathway to making it this this is a pathway to making it this creative expression and so because of creative expression and so because of creative expression and so because of that he kind of threw his own personal that he kind of threw his own personal that he kind of threw his own personal leadership style hits the wide gamut of leadership style hits the wide gamut of leadership style hits the wide gamut of everybody else's leadership style so as everybody else's leadership style so as everybody else's leadership style so as we hear it we're asking ourselves where we hear it we're asking ourselves where we hear it we're asking ourselves where do i jump in on it oig this one so if do i jump in on it oig this one so if do i jump in on it oig this one so if you look at his vision like a train it's you look at his vision like a train it's you look at his vision like a train it's which boxcar do I belong on mmm do it which boxcar do I belong on mmm do it which boxcar do I belong on mmm do it it's already moving forward so that's it's already moving forward so that's it's already moving forward so that's that option the question is what do we that option the question is what do we that option the question is what do we do to make our boxcar the best as it do to make our boxcar the best as it do to make our boxcar the best as it goes on that journey and look at it from goes on that journey and look at it from goes on that journey and look at it from that perspective helps us to believe in that perspective helps us to believe in that perspective helps us to believe in the vision right away so many people say the vision right away so many people say the vision right away so many people say how do I get on board to make the vision how do I get on board to make the vision how do I get on board to make the vision happen we'll assume the vision is happen we'll assume the vision is happen we'll assume the vision is already happening because if God gave it already happening because if God gave it already happening because if God gave it to us it's being implemented already

to us it's being implemented already to us it's being implemented already then we just have to operate from the then we just have to operate from the then we just have to operate from the place of how do I make this journey place of how do I make this journey place of how do I make this journey better mmm now I think so I think so better mmm now I think so I think so better mmm now I think so I think so many people they they would like to do many people they they would like to do many people they they would like to do that they feel like I want to plug in on that they feel like I want to plug in on that they feel like I want to plug in on a vision but I have a hard time figuring a vision but I have a hard time figuring a vision but I have a hard time figuring out what their piece of the puzzle is or out what their piece of the puzzle is or out what their piece of the puzzle is or how you know what they can contribute how you know what they can contribute how you know what they can contribute you know what's that been like for you you know what's that been like for you you know what's that been like for you well for me it's I think one of the well for me it's I think one of the well for me it's I think one of the biggest things is knowing yourself and biggest things is knowing yourself and biggest things is knowing yourself and knowing your own leadership style and knowing your own leadership style and knowing your own leadership style and being with owning it you know so many being with owning it you know so many being with owning it you know so many people don't want to anchor down people don't want to anchor down people don't want to anchor down especially with this millennial post especially with this millennial post especially with this millennial post modern generation red even put modern to modern generation red even put modern to modern generation red even put modern to where they're like I want to be a part where they're like I want to be a part where they're like I want to be a part of something but I don't want to commit of something but I don't want to commit of something but I don't want to commit to something and it Parkins back to our to something and it Parkins back to our to something and it Parkins back to our own process to it's like if I say I'm own process to it's like if I say I'm own process to it's like if I say I'm this then I'm also saying I'm not this this then I'm also saying I'm not this this then I'm also saying I'm not this right and very that but once you're able right and very that but once you're able right and very that but once you're able to learn our own your own leadership to learn our own your own leadership to learn our own your own leadership style your strengths and your weaknesses style your strengths and your weaknesses style your strengths and your weaknesses and celebrate both of them then you're and celebrate both of them then you're and celebrate both of them then you're able to say well this is my lane and if able to say well this is my lane and if able to say well this is my lane and if I learn how to stand my lane that's I learn how to stand my lane that's I learn how to stand my lane that's where God is going to blow where God is going to blow where God is going to blow me the most is by by owning the land he me the most is by by owning the land he me the most is by by owning the land he gave me in essence biblically carrying gave me in essence biblically carrying gave me in essence biblically carrying the cross he gave me and so it's very the cross he gave me and so it's very the cross he gave me and so it's very important to know yourself and to know important to know yourself and to know important to know yourself and to know your place in the process and your place in the process and your place in the process and secondarily to place your value on the secondarily to place your value on the secondarily to place your value on the table because place your value on the table because place your value on the table because place your value on the table other people will do it for you table other people will do it for you table other people will do it for you and it might not look so that's why it's and it might not look so that's why it's and it might not look so that's why it's idle to know yourself and then right in idle to know yourself and then right in idle to know yourself and then right in step two the entire process very cool step two the entire process very cool step two the entire process very cool well you mentioned systems a little bit well you mentioned systems a little bit well you mentioned systems a little bit earlier can you help us understand kind earlier can you help us understand kind earlier can you help us understand kind of what is the place that systems I of what is the place that systems I of what is the place that systems I think sometimes we think our systems think sometimes we think our systems think sometimes we think our systems that's boring stuff how does that you that's boring stuff how does that you that's boring stuff how does that you know relate to vision how do those two know relate to vision how do those two know relate to vision how do those two fit together yeah it's so important to fit together yeah it's so important to fit together yeah it's so important to understand it's because vista without

understand it's because vista without understand it's because vista without vision kills systems with vision brings vision kills systems with vision brings vision kills systems with vision brings life and systems scizzin systems aren't life and systems scizzin systems aren't life and systems scizzin systems aren't a period in and of themselves but a period in and of themselves but a period in and of themselves but they're a comma that lead to an outcome they're a comma that lead to an outcome they're a comma that lead to an outcome if at any time we've become in love and if at any time we've become in love and if at any time we've become in love and married to the systems we miss it we married to the systems we miss it we married to the systems we miss it we become fairest seiko we become very law become fairest seiko we become very law become fairest seiko we become very law driven and we want to make sure that we driven and we want to make sure that we driven and we want to make sure that we are in line with the vision the heart of are in line with the vision the heart of are in line with the vision the heart of the law you know and so I heard a story the law you know and so I heard a story the law you know and so I heard a story about vision systems one time and I kind about vision systems one time and I kind about vision systems one time and I kind of blew up this whole thing that God of blew up this whole thing that God of blew up this whole thing that God gave me and it's it's systems are in gave me and it's it's systems are in gave me and it's it's systems are in essence this they create behavior and so essence this they create behavior and so essence this they create behavior and so if I tell my daughter I want her to take if I tell my daughter I want her to take if I tell my daughter I want her to take out the garbage once a week and every out the garbage once a week and every out the garbage once a week and every time she does she gets the twenty-dollar time she does she gets the twenty-dollar time she does she gets the twenty-dollar allowance which is ridiculously generous allowance which is ridiculously generous allowance which is ridiculously generous I think so and she it's time to take out I think so and she it's time to take out I think so and she it's time to take out the garbage and I say take out the the garbage and I say take out the the garbage and I say take out the garbage later dad take out the garbage garbage later dad take out the garbage garbage later dad take out the garbage I'll do it when I get around to it and I I'll do it when I get around to it and I I'll do it when I get around to it and I take out the garbage for her and then take out the garbage for her and then take out the garbage for her and then when she asked me for allowance I give when she asked me for allowance I give when she asked me for allowance I give her allowance I don't have a bad kid I her allowance I don't have a bad kid I her allowance I don't have a bad kid I have a bad system cuz I'm just reward have a bad system cuz I'm just reward have a bad system cuz I'm just reward bad behavior and so she knows I can get bad behavior and so she knows I can get bad behavior and so she knows I can get a reward for bad behavior so I don't a reward for bad behavior so I don't a reward for bad behavior so I don't have a bad kid have a bad system but if have a bad kid have a bad system but if have a bad kid have a bad system but if I say take out the garbage and she says I say take out the garbage and she says I say take out the garbage and she says later and then I take it out and she later and then I take it out and she later and then I take it out and she comes and ask for allowance I say oh comes and ask for allowance I say oh comes and ask for allowance I say oh this twenty bucks oh and this is next this twenty bucks oh and this is next this twenty bucks oh and this is next week's they're mine how about you take week's they're mine how about you take week's they're mine how about you take out the garbage for two more weeks and out the garbage for two more weeks and out the garbage for two more weeks and then you'll get allowance again I then you'll get allowance again I then you'll get allowance again I guarantee you she'll take out the guarantee you she'll take out the guarantee you she'll take out the garbage not because she's a good kid but garbage not because she's a good kid but garbage not because she's a good kid but because I have a good system so it's and because I have a good system so it's and because I have a good system so it's and when I heard that illustration it just when I heard that illustration it just when I heard that illustration it just kind of blew up on my mind how to usher kind of blew up on my mind how to usher kind of blew up on my mind how to usher a vision into making it a movement into a vision into making it a movement into a vision into making it a movement into actual izing it and I see it this way actual izing it and I see it this way actual izing it and I see it this way vision systems behave your culture vision systems behave your culture vision systems behave your culture movement mmm okay vision let's um go movement mmm okay vision let's um go movement mmm okay vision let's um go through like wish your vision systems

through like wish your vision systems through like wish your vision systems behavior culture movement kind of in behavior culture movement kind of in behavior culture movement kind of in you know in a spectrum there yes you know in a spectrum there yes you know in a spectrum there yes absolutely in and I've applied this to absolutely in and I've applied this to absolutely in and I've applied this to every area whether there's greeters walk every area whether there's greeters walk every area whether there's greeters walk in the door people work in your in the door people work in your in the door people work in your hospitality people on the stage doing hospitality people on the stage doing hospitality people on the stage doing announcements and flow there's no 119 announcements and flow there's no 119 announcements and flow there's no 119 for announcements so what kind of for announcements so what kind of for announcements so what kind of behavior who I want to do I want to behavior who I want to do I want to behavior who I want to do I want to create what kind of be so I look at the create what kind of be so I look at the create what kind of be so I look at the vision God's given me and I say okay vision God's given me and I say okay vision God's given me and I say okay this is the vision I don't want people this is the vision I don't want people this is the vision I don't want people behaving this way and so what many behaving this way and so what many behaving this way and so what many people do is they just keep yelling the people do is they just keep yelling the people do is they just keep yelling the vision louder louder soldiering vision louder louder soldiering vision louder louder soldiering eventually behave our job isn't to our eventually behave our job isn't to our eventually behave our job isn't to our isn't to yell louder is to systemize the isn't to yell louder is to systemize the isn't to yell louder is to systemize the vision so that mean will behave that way vision so that mean will behave that way vision so that mean will behave that way if people aren't behaving according to if people aren't behaving according to if people aren't behaving according to the vision I don't say i miss god and the vision I don't say i miss god and the vision I don't say i miss god and throw away the vision mm-hmm how many throw away the vision mm-hmm how many throw away the vision mm-hmm how many pastors are more comfortable saying i pastors are more comfortable saying i pastors are more comfortable saying i miss God rather than systemizing it I miss God rather than systemizing it I miss God rather than systemizing it I what I say is oh the the behavior what I say is oh the the behavior what I say is oh the the behavior doesn't look like the vision let me doesn't look like the vision let me doesn't look like the vision let me tweak my systems tweek tweek tweek tweak tweak my systems tweek tweek tweek tweak tweak my systems tweek tweek tweek tweak their out the behavior looks like the their out the behavior looks like the their out the behavior looks like the systems hmmm at in the next step how do systems hmmm at in the next step how do systems hmmm at in the next step how do I make this behavior a culture mm-hmm I make this behavior a culture mm-hmm I make this behavior a culture mm-hmm still value whenever you speak value still value whenever you speak value still value whenever you speak value into a collective behavior that into a collective behavior that into a collective behavior that collective behavior becomes a culture collective behavior becomes a culture collective behavior becomes a culture mmm have a worship culture well because mmm have a worship culture well because mmm have a worship culture well because people collectively value behaving that people collectively value behaving that people collectively value behaving that way mmm and because the speak value into way mmm and because the speak value into way mmm and because the speak value into behavior becomes a culture now does a behavior becomes a culture now does a behavior becomes a culture now does a culture look like division no well I culture look like division no well I culture look like division no well I look at the behavior then I don't look look at the behavior then I don't look look at the behavior then I don't look at the system that the behavior no the at the system that the behavior no the at the system that the behavior no the behavior looks fine so I'm speaking the behavior looks fine so I'm speaking the behavior looks fine so I'm speaking the wrong value mmm okay and how many times wrong value mmm okay and how many times wrong value mmm okay and how many times do we change the wrong thing to try to

do we change the wrong thing to try to do we change the wrong thing to try to fix the right thing it's what does is it fix the right thing it's what does is it fix the right thing it's what does is it holds us accountable and therefore if holds us accountable and therefore if holds us accountable and therefore if the culture then looks like the vision the culture then looks like the vision the culture then looks like the vision and then God blesses it it becomes a and then God blesses it it becomes a and then God blesses it it becomes a movement because you stoop yes right so movement because you stoop yes right so movement because you stoop yes right so God's job is the vision in the movement God's job is the vision in the movement God's job is the vision in the movement right the job are the behavior in the right the job are the behavior in the right the job are the behavior in the culture our top is the system's very culture our top is the system's very culture our top is the system's very cool now can you give me some kind of cool now can you give me some kind of cool now can you give me some kind of practical examples how you've kind of practical examples how you've kind of practical examples how you've kind of either had to tweak some of the systems either had to tweak some of the systems either had to tweak some of the systems or you know is you know some gives some or you know is you know some gives some or you know is you know some gives some practical examples of how you've had to practical examples of how you've had to practical examples of how you've had to see that you know happen at river valley see that you know happen at river valley see that you know happen at river valley yeah when number one is a worship yeah when number one is a worship yeah when number one is a worship culture so sitter we want and this is culture so sitter we want and this is culture so sitter we want and this is comes from previous ministry experience comes from previous ministry experience comes from previous ministry experience current Minister experience but if I current Minister experience but if I current Minister experience but if I want students to come up from say God want students to come up from say God want students to come up from say God gives me a vision and say we need gives me a vision and say we need gives me a vision and say we need students out of their comfort zone up students out of their comfort zone up students out of their comfort zone up front worshiping I see it in my head front worshiping I see it in my head front worshiping I see it in my head so I articulate division when I first so I articulate division when I first so I articulate division when I first did this my first year in ministry my did this my first year in ministry my did this my first year in ministry my first months I said all right everybody first months I said all right everybody first months I said all right everybody make your way to the front let's worship make your way to the front let's worship make your way to the front let's worship here was this I've had in place the here was this I've had in place the here was this I've had in place the lights were up there was no music there lights were up there was no music there lights were up there was no music there uh rhythm to mingle they were had to get uh rhythm to mingle they were had to get uh rhythm to mingle they were had to get up stand up out of their seats climb up stand up out of their seats climb up stand up out of their seats climb over one another and slowly mingle to over one another and slowly mingle to over one another and slowly mingle to the front the worship he was coming out the front the worship he was coming out the front the worship he was coming out of the crowd climbing up on stage of the crowd climbing up on stage of the crowd climbing up on stage plugging in and clanking around and plugging in and clanking around and plugging in and clanking around and testing everything out and I would just testing everything out and I would just testing everything out and I would just Yelp over and over come on off right and Yelp over and over come on off right and Yelp over and over come on off right and I got to a place where i said my I got to a place where i said my I got to a place where i said my students don't love worship right right students don't love worship right right students don't love worship right right right I have a good vision is my right I have a good vision is my right I have a good vision is my students I realized it was a systematic students I realized it was a systematic students I realized it was a systematic thing I changed it so I said all right I thing I changed it so I said all right I thing I changed it so I said all right I want to create the atmosphere for the want to create the atmosphere for the want to create the atmosphere for the behavior to take place and so I said all behavior to take place and so I said all behavior to take place and so I said all right everybody let's stand up find five right everybody let's stand up find five right everybody let's stand up find five people you never met before telling what

people you never met before telling what people you never met before telling what your favorite candy is already going on your favorite candy is already going on your favorite candy is already going on vacation or what you want for christmas vacation or what you want for christmas vacation or what you want for christmas the lights would go down the stage the lights would go down the stage the lights would go down the stage lights would be black music would come lights would be black music would come lights would be black music would come up students would get up and talk to one up students would get up and talk to one up students would get up and talk to one another the worship team would be another the worship team would be another the worship team would be plugging in but nobody sees the worship plugging in but nobody sees the worship plugging in but nobody sees the worship team because they're busy looking at team because they're busy looking at team because they're busy looking at each other right and when 14 gives me a each other right and when 14 gives me a each other right and when 14 gives me a thumbs up I give the thumbs up to the thumbs up I give the thumbs up to the thumbs up I give the thumbs up to the sound booth they lower the music raise sound booth they lower the music raise sound booth they lower the music raise the lights I say all right everybody the lights I say all right everybody the lights I say all right everybody grab your friend bring him up front grab your friend bring him up front grab your friend bring him up front let's get ready for worship and what was let's get ready for worship and what was let's get ready for worship and what was is it was a lot easier to move from your is it was a lot easier to move from your is it was a lot easier to move from your location to up front than to climb over location to up front than to climb over location to up front than to climb over each other go back to your seats right each other go back to your seats right each other go back to your seats right and so people started behaving a certain and so people started behaving a certain and so people started behaving a certain lane coming up for worship well after lane coming up for worship well after lane coming up for worship well after that win for about four weeks I began to that win for about four weeks I began to that win for about four weeks I began to speak value mm so to recently get out of speak value mm so to recently get out of speak value mm so to recently get out of our seats is because God is enough front our seats is because God is enough front our seats is because God is enough front God and we want to get up front with him God and we want to get up front with him God and we want to get up front with him and so many times when I'm in my seat and so many times when I'm in my seat and so many times when I'm in my seat I'm thinking about something else but I'm thinking about something else but I'm thinking about something else but when I'm up front with him it's just me when I'm up front with him it's just me when I'm up front with him it's just me and Jesus mmm pretty soon that became a and Jesus mmm pretty soon that became a and Jesus mmm pretty soon that became a culture now so many people say well culture now so many people say well culture now so many people say well isn't that manipulation well when I isn't that manipulation well when I isn't that manipulation well when I brought my daughter home from China brought my daughter home from China brought my daughter home from China adopted my daughter hurt her bedroom was adopted my daughter hurt her bedroom was adopted my daughter hurt her bedroom was amazed by new soft light soft music amazed by new soft light soft music amazed by new soft light soft music colorful things stuffed animals did she colorful things stuffed animals did she colorful things stuffed animals did she care well she was a baby but as a parent care well she was a baby but as a parent care well she was a baby but as a parent I wanted to provide an atmosphere of I wanted to provide an atmosphere of I wanted to provide an atmosphere of security is that manipulation or is that security is that manipulation or is that security is that manipulation or is that just good parenting mmm very good in just good parenting mmm very good in just good parenting mmm very good in youth or is that just good shepherding youth or is that just good shepherding youth or is that just good shepherding right and so that's kind of one of the right and so that's kind of one of the right and so that's kind of one of the examples that I've used that's very good examples that I've used that's very good examples that I've used that's very good i think you know as leaders our job i think you know as leaders our job i think you know as leaders our job another way just to say what you're another way just to say what you're another way just to say what you're saying is our job is to remove the saying is our job is to remove the saying is our job is to remove the friction in the direction that we're friction in the direction that we're friction in the direction that we're hoping people will go in so whatever it hoping people will go in so whatever it hoping people will go in so whatever it is that you're in your case whatever is that you're in your case whatever is that you're in your case whatever behavior you want people to live behavior you want people to live behavior you want people to live out our job is to remove the the system

out our job is to remove the the system out our job is to remove the the system should be removing friction in that should be removing friction in that should be removing friction in that direction now the the opposite of that direction now the the opposite of that direction now the the opposite of that is true we actually want to put friction is true we actually want to put friction is true we actually want to put friction in in in way of people going in the in in in way of people going in the in in in way of people going in the direction we don't want them to go or direction we don't want them to go or direction we don't want them to go or you know to behave in our weight so you you know to behave in our weight so you you know to behave in our weight so you know the way to set is the main thing know the way to set is the main thing know the way to set is the main thing should be the plane thing so the easiest should be the plane thing so the easiest should be the plane thing so the easiest thing that or the next step you want thing that or the next step you want thing that or the next step you want people to take needs to be obvious needs people to take needs to be obvious needs people to take needs to be obvious needs to be strategic needs to be super clear to be strategic needs to be super clear to be strategic needs to be super clear you know for sure a changing direction a you know for sure a changing direction a you know for sure a changing direction a little bit I saw something on your site little bit I saw something on your site little bit I saw something on your site around a program called ignite can you around a program called ignite can you around a program called ignite can you tell me of what is ignite at at River tell me of what is ignite at at River tell me of what is ignite at at River Valley okay so ignite is our Valley okay so ignite is our Valley okay so ignite is our discipleship process for you okk discipleship process for you okk discipleship process for you okk centralizes are our small group life centralizes are our small group life centralizes are our small group life group format okay it really came out of group format okay it really came out of group format okay it really came out of what I came out of my dissatisfaction what I came out of my dissatisfaction what I came out of my dissatisfaction for what was being produced in small for what was being produced in small for what was being produced in small groups hmm and not just at River Valley groups hmm and not just at River Valley groups hmm and not just at River Valley is before I gotcha River Valley but I is before I gotcha River Valley but I is before I gotcha River Valley but I realized that students from taking realized that students from taking realized that students from taking ownership for their faith and because of ownership for their faith and because of ownership for their faith and because of that we have the statistic of 86 that we have the statistic of 86 that we have the statistic of 86 whatever percentage falling away from whatever percentage falling away from whatever percentage falling away from faith after high school why because it's faith after high school why because it's faith after high school why because it's their parents faith since their churches their parents faith since their churches their parents faith since their churches faith is there youth groups way and what faith is there youth groups way and what faith is there youth groups way and what I found especially in this generation is I found especially in this generation is I found especially in this generation is we have people more in love with a we have people more in love with a we have people more in love with a Christian culture than we do the Christ Christian culture than we do the Christ Christian culture than we do the Christ of their culture so good leave their of their culture so good leave their of their culture so good leave their atmosphere their contracts they're also atmosphere their contracts they're also atmosphere their contracts they're also leaving a Christian culture and going leaving a Christian culture and going leaving a Christian culture and going into a place where there probably isn't into a place where there probably isn't into a place where there probably isn't isn't one even in some Bible colleges isn't one even in some Bible colleges isn't one even in some Bible colleges let's be honest right in subsonic let's be honest right in subsonic let's be honest right in subsonic Christian culture they fall away from Christian culture they fall away from Christian culture they fall away from their faith and so what I want to do is their faith and so what I want to do is their faith and so what I want to do is I want to make them more in love with I want to make them more in love with I want to make them more in love with the Christ of their culture so what it the Christ of their culture so what it the Christ of their culture so what it is we brought them together and it's a is we brought them together and it's a is we brought them together and it's a two hour atmosphere and we call it

two hour atmosphere and we call it two hour atmosphere and we call it discipleship and let's call small groups discipleship and let's call small groups discipleship and let's call small groups what they are by and large a what they are by and large a what they are by and large a relationship mmm ok anybody and say what relationship mmm ok anybody and say what relationship mmm ok anybody and say what are your small groups and I what's your are your small groups and I what's your are your small groups and I what's your splits your discipleship plan they'll splits your discipleship plan they'll splits your discipleship plan they'll say small groups right Oh sleeting those say small groups right Oh sleeting those say small groups right Oh sleeting those small groups are they deep enough to small groups are they deep enough to small groups are they deep enough to lead those small groups are they willing lead those small groups are they willing lead those small groups are they willing to have the hard conversations and maybe to have the hard conversations and maybe to have the hard conversations and maybe disenfranchised some people with the disenfranchised some people with the disenfranchised some people with the word of God in order to bring depth to word of God in order to bring depth to word of God in order to bring depth to it and here's the thing with with a lot it and here's the thing with with a lot it and here's the thing with with a lot of small groups there moralistic of small groups there moralistic of small groups there moralistic therapeutic dias groups I mean is it's therapeutic dias groups I mean is it's therapeutic dias groups I mean is it's very like I want people to feel good very like I want people to feel good very like I want people to feel good about themselves right I want them to about themselves right I want them to about themselves right I want them to know that they belong here and I want know that they belong here and I want know that they belong here and I want them to come back right what am I them to come back right what am I them to come back right what am I removing to make that happen hmm so what removing to make that happen hmm so what removing to make that happen hmm so what I did is I made ignite because I believe I did is I made ignite because I believe I did is I made ignite because I believe discipleship flows down relationship discipleship flows down relationship discipleship flows down relationship flows out Jesus didn't delegate flows out Jesus didn't delegate flows out Jesus didn't delegate discipleship with his disciples he did discipleship with his disciples he did discipleship with his disciples he did it mm-hmm so we show up is let me just it mm-hmm so we show up is let me just it mm-hmm so we show up is let me just give you the format 685 fill up we give give you the format 685 fill up we give give you the format 685 fill up we give them food six to 615 they talk and we them food six to 615 they talk and we them food six to 615 they talk and we have great music going on and we have a have great music going on and we have a have great music going on and we have a couch pick kind of created in the center couch pick kind of created in the center couch pick kind of created in the center so it's more conversational they're not so it's more conversational they're not so it's more conversational they're not in robes or in like room settings then in robes or in like room settings then in robes or in like room settings then they grab food and at six-fifteen they they grab food and at six-fifteen they they grab food and at six-fifteen they sit down and we give a few announcements sit down and we give a few announcements sit down and we give a few announcements and then we say what are some questions and then we say what are some questions and then we say what are some questions that you have that have been gnawing at that you have that have been gnawing at that you have that have been gnawing at you about the Word of God or what's you about the Word of God or what's you about the Word of God or what's happening in the world today what do you happening in the world today what do you happening in the world today what do you want to know about anything and students want to know about anything and students want to know about anything and students ask any question in every question hmm ask any question in every question hmm ask any question in every question hmm we don't we don't philosophically or we don't we don't philosophically or we don't we don't philosophically or even via logically answer the question even via logically answer the question even via logically answer the question we biblically absolutely they're quite we biblically absolutely they're quite we biblically absolutely they're quite okay yeah and so we what we want to do okay yeah and so we what we want to do okay yeah and so we what we want to do is not give students to answer because is not give students to answer because is not give students to answer because students the process okay that's students the process okay that's students the process okay that's everything in our journey is about everything in our journey is about everything in our journey is about process it's not about answers answers process it's not about answers answers process it's not about answers answers have never made us to make the journey have never made us to make the journey have never made us to make the journey better you know unfortunately they

better you know unfortunately they better you know unfortunately they haven't why did God do this well that haven't why did God do this well that haven't why did God do this well that answer might not sit well with me so I answer might not sit well with me so I answer might not sit well with me so I have to understand the process behind it have to understand the process behind it have to understand the process behind it I stay answer behind behind working out I stay answer behind behind working out I stay answer behind behind working out your face with fear and trembling with your face with fear and trembling with your face with fear and trembling with being ready in season and out of season being ready in season and out of season being ready in season and out of season and always I'm going to answer for your and always I'm going to answer for your and always I'm going to answer for your faith and so they ask any and every faith and so they ask any and every faith and so they ask any and every question and we answer it biblically question and we answer it biblically question and we answer it biblically after that we kind of diving into the after that we kind of diving into the after that we kind of diving into the topics a Syrian refugee crisis mm-hmm topics a Syrian refugee crisis mm-hmm topics a Syrian refugee crisis mm-hmm big question that just came up so we big question that just came up so we big question that just came up so we made a whole ignite about that mm-hmm made a whole ignite about that mm-hmm made a whole ignite about that mm-hmm and they asked about that and I said and they asked about that and I said and they asked about that and I said well what about you what do you think well what about you what do you think well what about you what do you think about it and it's very rabbinic in that about it and it's very rabbinic in that about it and it's very rabbinic in that you ask a question of the question until you ask a question of the question until you ask a question of the question until the answers plane okay right let's lead the answers plane okay right let's lead the answers plane okay right let's lead them through a biblical thought process them through a biblical thought process them through a biblical thought process more than you come to a place of an more than you come to a place of an more than you come to a place of an answer hmm there's that Q&A we break answer hmm there's that Q&A we break answer hmm there's that Q&A we break down into small groups and we have down into small groups and we have down into small groups and we have people leading small groups now the cool people leading small groups now the cool people leading small groups now the cool thing about our Pete our leaders leading thing about our Pete our leaders leading thing about our Pete our leaders leading small group just watch me answer small group just watch me answer small group just watch me answer questions to process resin up they get questions to process resin up they get questions to process resin up they get to do it we've been down hey what does to do it we've been down hey what does to do it we've been down hey what does the Bible say about the Syrian about the Bible say about the Syrian about the Bible say about the Syrian about refugees to love your neighbor as refugees to love your neighbor as refugees to love your neighbor as yourself that when he said that that yourself that when he said that that yourself that when he said that that borders weren't included in that borders weren't included in that borders weren't included in that statement hmm oh well what if they are statement hmm oh well what if they are statement hmm oh well what if they are terrorists well God says that if we are terrorists well God says that if we are terrorists well God says that if we are already dead to ourselves and alive in already dead to ourselves and alive in already dead to ourselves and alive in him then shouldn't be about our safety him then shouldn't be about our safety him then shouldn't be about our safety it should be about reading well so we it should be about reading well so we it should be about reading well so we really create tensions now because a lot really create tensions now because a lot really create tensions now because a lot of ship is creating attention and of ship is creating attention and of ship is creating attention and letting you work through that tension as letting you work through that tension as letting you work through that tension as opposed to giving you an answer hmmm opposed to giving you an answer hmmm opposed to giving you an answer hmmm after small groups we go into a time of after small groups we go into a time of after small groups we go into a time of worship where we got canned worship worship where we got canned worship worship where we got canned worship scrolling on screen prayers from the scrolling on screen prayers from the scrolling on screen prayers from the Word of God and say students God's been Word of God and say students God's been Word of God and say students God's been talking to you about something and am i talking to you about something and am i talking to you about something and am i different for all of you and going and different for all of you and going and different for all of you and going and worship and let Jesus talk to you after worship and let Jesus talk to you after worship and let Jesus talk to you after that we grab more food just to kind of that we grab more food just to kind of that we grab more food just to kind of hit reset and i'm bringing back for a

hit reset and i'm bringing back for a hit reset and i'm bringing back for a solid challenge and that challenge would solid challenge and that challenge would solid challenge and that challenge would be who's the refugee in your school mmm be who's the refugee in your school mmm be who's the refugee in your school mmm not just the foreign refugee but the not just the foreign refugee but the not just the foreign refugee but the American refugee the kid that was kicked American refugee the kid that was kicked American refugee the kid that was kicked away from his click right you're all to away from his click right you're all to away from his click right you're all to that person and are you willing to add that person and are you willing to add that person and are you willing to add your reputation to reach that person your reputation to reach that person your reputation to reach that person very cool very cool that's son that very cool very cool that's son that very cool very cool that's son that sounds great and now do you do those it sounds great and now do you do those it sounds great and now do you do those it sounds fantastic obviously you're really sounds fantastic obviously you're really sounds fantastic obviously you're really pushing towards I love the question pushing towards I love the question pushing towards I love the question driven environment I love like you're driven environment I love like you're driven environment I love like you're you know called the rabbinic style of you know called the rabbinic style of you know called the rabbinic style of you know developing students I think you know developing students I think you know developing students I think that's fantastic do you do that at all that's fantastic do you do that at all that's fantastic do you do that at all of your campuses is that you know you do of your campuses is that you know you do of your campuses is that you know you do that a few of them because I would that a few of them because I would that a few of them because I would imagine would be a fairly you know a imagine would be a fairly you know a imagine would be a fairly you know a weighty challenge for some leaders to weighty challenge for some leaders to weighty challenge for some leaders to lead that kind of environment well and lead that kind of environment well and lead that kind of environment well and that's the thing I've been doing it for that's the thing I've been doing it for that's the thing I've been doing it for about eight years some comfortable I about eight years some comfortable I about eight years some comfortable I wasn't great when I started let's be wasn't great when I started let's be wasn't great when I started let's be honest is very hard to think biblically honest is very hard to think biblically honest is very hard to think biblically all the time without letting your all the time without letting your all the time without letting your emotion get into it but it happens at emotion get into it but it happens at emotion get into it but it happens at all of our campuses and all of our youth all of our campuses and all of our youth all of our campuses and all of our youth pastors do that and my goal with my pastors do that and my goal with my pastors do that and my goal with my youth pastors and not to give them youth pastors and not to give them youth pastors and not to give them knowledge but competency because if knowledge but competency because if knowledge but competency because if we're going to impact the world in we're going to impact the world in we're going to impact the world in advance the kingdom we can't advance the advance the kingdom we can't advance the advance the kingdom we can't advance the kingdom with our knowledge we only kingdom with our knowledge we only kingdom with our knowledge we only advance the kingdom with her competency advance the kingdom with her competency advance the kingdom with her competency so the journey that these students are so the journey that these students are so the journey that these students are going from knowledge to competency to going from knowledge to competency to going from knowledge to competency to influence okay we don't go knowledge to influence okay we don't go knowledge to influence okay we don't go knowledge to influence because if that was the case influence because if that was the case influence because if that was the case in all of our Christian debates and in all of our Christian debates and in all of our Christian debates and Christian blogs would win the world to Christian blogs would win the world to Christian blogs would win the world to jesus franco can we become competent in jesus franco can we become competent in jesus franco can we become competent in love when we be competent in truth and love when we be competent in truth and love when we be competent in truth and we become competent in the word then we become competent in the word then we become competent in the word then that's where we begin to influence that's where we begin to influence that's where we begin to influence people when when you become competent in people when when you become competent in people when when you become competent in the law to show the sin and you bring the law to show the sin and you bring the law to show the sin and you bring Christ into it then that's where Christ into it then that's where Christ into it then that's where influence takes place and so I took my influence takes place and so I took my influence takes place and so I took my youth pastors on that same journey they youth pastors on that same journey they youth pastors on that same journey they came to watch me I do ignite for about a

came to watch me I do ignite for about a came to watch me I do ignite for about a month each and they started to unfold it month each and they started to unfold it month each and they started to unfold it in their campus and I go campus to in their campus and I go campus to in their campus and I go campus to campus and I just bring little tweaks to campus and I just bring little tweaks to campus and I just bring little tweaks to the system this is the on seminary the system this is the on seminary the system this is the on seminary podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to jump into seminary well we're going to jump into seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning round that's the part of the lightning round that's the part of the lightning round that's the part of the episode where we ask similar the episode where we ask similar the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show today we're privileged honored to show today we're privileged honored to show today we're privileged honored to have cherry Parkman with us from River have cherry Parkman with us from River have cherry Parkman with us from River Valley Church Terry what is a an online Valley Church Terry what is a an online Valley Church Terry what is a an online resource you're using these days that's resource you're using these days that's resource you're using these days that's that's helping you in your ministry an that's helping you in your ministry an that's helping you in your ministry an online resource I honestly man it's not online resource I honestly man it's not online resource I honestly man it's not as that spiritual I love watching as that spiritual I love watching as that spiritual I love watching Ted ngentot are my jam and this is why Ted ngentot are my jam and this is why Ted ngentot are my jam and this is why because I recognize I'm not a linear because I recognize I'm not a linear because I recognize I'm not a linear thinker so if i get a thought an idea thinker so if i get a thought an idea thinker so if i get a thought an idea it'll blow up a bunch of other thoughts it'll blow up a bunch of other thoughts it'll blow up a bunch of other thoughts that helped me to apply a spiritual that helped me to apply a spiritual that helped me to apply a spiritual context to them and so many times I context to them and so many times I context to them and so many times I haven't seen around an obstacle until I haven't seen around an obstacle until I haven't seen around an obstacle until I listen to another perspective and that listen to another perspective and that listen to another perspective and that perspective has helped me to create a perspective has helped me to create a perspective has helped me to create a system around that so honestly for me system around that so honestly for me system around that so honestly for me being a nonlinear thinker I love being a nonlinear thinker I love being a nonlinear thinker I love listening to TED Talks and then and then listening to TED Talks and then and then listening to TED Talks and then and then seeing where I can attach at into my seeing where I can attach at into my seeing where I can attach at into my current situation is probably current situation is probably current situation is probably sacrilegious to say there are no not at sacrilegious to say there are no not at sacrilegious to say there are no not at all relevant podcast but I think all relevant podcast but I think all relevant podcast but I think everybody says that for me it's like everybody says that for me it's like everybody says that for me it's like dots though very cool very cool what the dots though very cool very cool what the dots though very cool very cool what the book you've read in the last I don't book you've read in the last I don't book you've read in the last I don't know six months to a year that's had an know six months to a year that's had an know six months to a year that's had an impact on your thinking I love artist impact on your thinking I love artist impact on your thinking I love artist and soul by erwin mcmanus mm-hmm I love and soul by erwin mcmanus mm-hmm I love and soul by erwin mcmanus mm-hmm I love it I love the way he thinks I love the it I love the way he thinks I love the it I love the way he thinks I love the idea of the freeing of the heart of the idea of the freeing of the heart of the idea of the freeing of the heart of the freeing of the soul that you're created freeing of the soul that you're created freeing of the soul that you're created in the image of a creative God and when in the image of a creative God and when in the image of a creative God and when you create you give him the highest form you create you give him the highest form you create you give him the highest form of worship and I love that it's one of of worship and I love that it's one of of worship and I love that it's one of the most important things when we're the most important things when we're the most important things when we're ministry we become very managerial and

ministry we become very managerial and ministry we become very managerial and and God has created us to be more than and God has created us to be more than and God has created us to be more than managers so it's so important for me to managers so it's so important for me to managers so it's so important for me to kind of realign myself into that mindset kind of realign myself into that mindset kind of realign myself into that mindset very cool what sort of the ministry very cool what sort of the ministry very cool what sort of the ministry you're looking at these days it's kind you're looking at these days it's kind you're looking at these days it's kind of inspiring you one of my the of inspiring you one of my the of inspiring you one of my the ministries that I really love watching ministries that I really love watching ministries that I really love watching is just the way a good friend of mine is just the way a good friend of mine is just the way a good friend of mine his name is John Brown he's in Kenosha his name is John Brown he's in Kenosha his name is John Brown he's in Kenosha Wisconsin journey church and he's been Wisconsin journey church and he's been Wisconsin journey church and he's been doing youth ministry he's a veteran of doing youth ministry he's a veteran of doing youth ministry he's a veteran of the game and he's been doing it for a the game and he's been doing it for a the game and he's been doing it for a long time the thing I love about it is long time the thing I love about it is long time the thing I love about it is his relentless desire for an emerging his relentless desire for an emerging his relentless desire for an emerging generation is not so much in how he does generation is not so much in how he does generation is not so much in how he does stuff as much as it is the process of stuff as much as it is the process of stuff as much as it is the process of his mind and and the Prophet how he his mind and and the Prophet how he his mind and and the Prophet how he processes his heart and keeps it fresh processes his heart and keeps it fresh processes his heart and keeps it fresh because it's easy to get bored in your because it's easy to get bored in your because it's easy to get bored in your contacts and that's why I think a lot of contacts and that's why I think a lot of contacts and that's why I think a lot of pastors move right before God moves them pastors move right before God moves them pastors move right before God moves them right and so I think John has very well right and so I think John has very well right and so I think John has very well has steward himself very well so I just has steward himself very well so I just has steward himself very well so I just love watching it from a distance is a love watching it from a distance is a love watching it from a distance is a great guy very cool well last question great guy very cool well last question great guy very cool well last question I'm sure you've got a lot going on you I'm sure you've got a lot going on you I'm sure you've got a lot going on you know managing all those youth pastors know managing all those youth pastors know managing all those youth pastors trying to keep on top of when you just trying to keep on top of when you just trying to keep on top of when you just want to kick back and relax kind of want to kick back and relax kind of want to kick back and relax kind of enjoy some stuff in your personal life enjoy some stuff in your personal life enjoy some stuff in your personal life what is it that you what is it you do what is it that you what is it you do what is it that you what is it you do for fun well on the side I'm an MMA for fun well on the side I'm an MMA for fun well on the side I'm an MMA coach oh wow nice martial arts my whole coach oh wow nice martial arts my whole coach oh wow nice martial arts my whole life I grew up on an Air Force Base so life I grew up on an Air Force Base so life I grew up on an Air Force Base so my my my fix was to take as many styles as I fix was to take as many styles as I fix was to take as many styles as I could when I was a kid in a kind of could when I was a kid in a kind of could when I was a kid in a kind of translated to MMA and after I got in the translated to MMA and after I got in the translated to MMA and after I got in the ministry I kind of used it as an arm to ministry I kind of used it as an arm to ministry I kind of used it as an arm to reach out to a lot of a generation to reach out to a lot of a generation to reach out to a lot of a generation to where I couldn't be put in their context where I couldn't be put in their context where I couldn't be put in their context but they're able to come in mind very but they're able to come in mind very but they're able to come in mind very cool and and it's a fun thing that and cool and and it's a fun thing that and cool and and it's a fun thing that and family and Netflix man yeah that's

family and Netflix man yeah that's family and Netflix man yeah that's currently like a kid so well this has currently like a kid so well this has currently like a kid so well this has been great Terry I really appreciate be been great Terry I really appreciate be been great Terry I really appreciate be on the show today if people want to get on the show today if people want to get on the show today if people want to get in touch with you or with the church how in touch with you or with the church how in touch with you or with the church how can they do that you could check out our can they do that you could check out our can they do that you could check out our website for the church you can you can website for the church you can you can website for the church you can you can email me Terry docked Parkman at River email me Terry docked Parkman at River email me Terry docked Parkman at River Valley org or hit me up on social media Valley org or hit me up on social media Valley org or hit me up on social media I'm probably more on that than I am on I'm probably more on that than I am on I'm probably more on that than I am on my email so I would love to connect with my email so I would love to connect with my email so I would love to connect with anybody very good thanks so much for anybody very good thanks so much for anybody very good thanks so much for being on the show today all right thank being on the show today all right thank being on the show today all right thank you thank you for tuning in to this you thank you for tuning in to this you thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy week's unsung re podcast don't be shy week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie we'd love to connect check out uncie we'd love to connect check out uncie maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and Wilson you helpful training re calm and Wilson you helpful training re calm and Wilson you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on Twitter at can use connect with rich on Twitter at can use connect with rich on Twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon ericom don't forget to check unsummon ericom don't forget to check unsummon ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unset maneri com it includes links to unset maneri com it includes links to unset maneri com it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks by itunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on seminary podcast join us next week when seminary podcast join us next week when seminary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary