Tony Morgan on Helping Churches Get Unstuck

I've been directly involved in the I've been directly involved in the launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site launch of over a dozen multi-site campuses through the churches I've led campuses through the churches I've led campuses through the churches I've led and half of them have been in movie and half of them have been in movie and half of them have been in movie theaters I'm convinced that every church theaters I'm convinced that every church theaters I'm convinced that every church leader should consider using a theater leader should consider using a theater leader should consider using a theater for your next campus or church plant for your next campus or church plant for your next campus or church plant they're flexible culturally relevant they're flexible culturally relevant they're flexible culturally relevant locations typically in the center of the locations typically in the center of the locations typically in the center of the community that you're trying to reach community that you're trying to reach community that you're trying to reach Regal is the only theatre company with a Regal is the only theatre company with a Regal is the only theatre company with a dedicated team of full-time consultants dedicated team of full-time consultants dedicated team of full-time consultants ready to help your church launch and ready to help your church launch and ready to help your church launch and succeed in a movie theater check out succeed in a movie theater check out succeed in a movie theater check out Regal theater church.com Regal theater church.com Regal theater church.com for more information on locations your for more information on locations your for more information on locations your church could use church could use church could use welcome to the unsummon airy podcast are welcome to the unsummon airy podcast are welcome to the unsummon airy podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast everybody welcome to the on seminary everybody welcome to the on seminary everybody welcome to the on seminary podcast so glad that you've decided to podcast so glad that you've decided to podcast so glad that you've decided to spend some time with us today to pop us spend some time with us today to pop us spend some time with us today to pop us in your earbuds and listen in I've been in your earbuds and listen in I've been in your earbuds and listen in I've been looking forward to this interview for a looking forward to this interview for a looking forward to this interview for a while today it's our honor to have Tony while today it's our honor to have Tony while today it's our honor to have Tony Morgan on the show Tony has been a part Morgan on the show Tony has been a part Morgan on the show Tony has been a part of the senior leadership team of a bunch of the senior leadership team of a bunch of the senior leadership team of a bunch of great churches Granger NewSpring of great churches Granger NewSpring of great churches Granger NewSpring Westridge but he's currently the the Westridge but he's currently the the Westridge but he's currently the the lead strategist and the founder of the lead strategist and the founder of the lead strategist and the founder of the unstuck group if you don't know who Tony unstuck group if you don't know who Tony unstuck group if you don't know who Tony is you've probably been living under a is you've probably been living under a is you've probably been living under a rock so I'm so glad to have him with us rock so I'm so glad to have him with us rock so I'm so glad to have him with us really it's our honor to have you on the really it's our honor to have you on the really it's our honor to have you on the show today Tony thanks for being here show today Tony thanks for being here show today Tony thanks for being here now it's going to be with us and looking now it's going to be with us and looking now it's going to be with us and looking forward to today's conversation oh forward to today's conversation oh forward to today's conversation oh thanks man now obviously in your kind of

thanks man now obviously in your kind of thanks man now obviously in your kind of vantage point as someone who runs really vantage point as someone who runs really vantage point as someone who runs really a premier church consulting organization a premier church consulting organization a premier church consulting organization I know you probably don't love that word I know you probably don't love that word I know you probably don't love that word church consultant but you know as if church consultant but you know as if church consultant but you know as if organizational runs that what when you organizational runs that what when you organizational runs that what when you look to the kind of church around you look to the kind of church around you look to the kind of church around you you know you've got this great named you know you've got this great named you know you've got this great named unstuck why did you call your group the unstuck why did you call your group the unstuck why did you call your group the unstuck group yeah unstuck group yeah unstuck group yeah well it's interesting I for coming out well it's interesting I for coming out well it's interesting I for coming out of the great experiences I had like you of the great experiences I had like you of the great experiences I had like you said with a few different great churches said with a few different great churches said with a few different great churches I just assumed boy if I if I can offer I just assumed boy if I if I can offer I just assumed boy if I if I can offer to help churches have stronger healthier to help churches have stronger healthier to help churches have stronger healthier weekend services and volunteer teams and weekend services and volunteer teams and weekend services and volunteer teams and small-group menace small-group menace small-group menace trees and all the things that churches trees and all the things that churches trees and all the things that churches do I would just have all kinds of do I would just have all kinds of do I would just have all kinds of churches looking for help and you know I churches looking for help and you know I churches looking for help and you know I stay busy in the first couple years that stay busy in the first couple years that stay busy in the first couple years that I'm doing what I'm doing now but things I'm doing what I'm doing now but things I'm doing what I'm doing now but things didn't really take off until I kind of didn't really take off until I kind of didn't really take off until I kind of took a bit of my own medicine and by took a bit of my own medicine and by took a bit of my own medicine and by that what I mean is this all the time that what I mean is this all the time that what I mean is this all the time I'm encouraging teaching pastors senior I'm encouraging teaching pastors senior I'm encouraging teaching pastors senior pastors you have truth to offer people pastors you have truth to offer people pastors you have truth to offer people but sometimes before people are willing but sometimes before people are willing but sometimes before people are willing to hear the truth you have to kind of to hear the truth you have to kind of to hear the truth you have to kind of meet them where they are and you have to meet them where they are and you have to meet them where they are and you have to speak to the challenges the issues that speak to the challenges the issues that speak to the challenges the issues that they're facing in their lives before you they're facing in their lives before you they're facing in their lives before you can offer the next steps in our case can offer the next steps in our case can offer the next steps in our case biblical truths as teaching pastors well biblical truths as teaching pastors well biblical truths as teaching pastors well I finally realized I was trying to offer I finally realized I was trying to offer I finally realized I was trying to offer this is what I do to help

this is what I do to help this is what I do to help churches without really paying attention churches without really paying attention churches without really paying attention to what are the challenges the to what are the challenges the to what are the challenges the opportunities that churches are facing opportunities that churches are facing opportunities that churches are facing and so I just started to listen a little and so I just started to listen a little and so I just started to listen a little bit more closely to when when a church bit more closely to when when a church bit more closely to when when a church contacted me when a pastor contacting contacted me when a pastor contacting contacted me when a pastor contacting contacted me what were they saying and contacted me what were they saying and contacted me what were they saying and the phrase I heard over and over and the phrase I heard over and over and the phrase I heard over and over and over again is were stuck and we're not over again is were stuck and we're not over again is were stuck and we're not sure where we're supposed to go next and sure where we're supposed to go next and sure where we're supposed to go next and so really though I started the unstuck so really though I started the unstuck so really though I started the unstuck group a little over eight years ago this group a little over eight years ago this group a little over eight years ago this it kind of has evolved to the place now it kind of has evolved to the place now it kind of has evolved to the place now really where it comes down the bottom really where it comes down the bottom really where it comes down the bottom line we're trying to help churches get line we're trying to help churches get line we're trying to help churches get unstuck unstuck unstuck now when you you know with all the now when you you know with all the now when you you know with all the different churches you work with is different churches you work with is different churches you work with is there kind of common places where there kind of common places where there kind of common places where churches get stuck in their growth other churches get stuck in their growth other churches get stuck in their growth other common spots along journey that you find common spots along journey that you find common spots along journey that you find yourself you know talking to them again yourself you know talking to them again yourself you know talking to them again yeah and actually that's part of the yeah and actually that's part of the yeah and actually that's part of the genesis of the unstuck Church book rich genesis of the unstuck Church book rich genesis of the unstuck Church book rich is there you know I met in the map and is there you know I met in the map and is there you know I met in the map and the book I map out these seven different the book I map out these seven different the book I map out these seven different seasons of a church but commonly there seasons of a church but commonly there seasons of a church but commonly there are two places where churches get stuck are two places where churches get stuck are two places where churches get stuck one is as they're seeing increases as one is as they're seeing increases as one is as they're seeing increases as they're seeing growth and they're moving they're seeing growth and they're moving they're seeing growth and they're moving towards sustained health there's this towards sustained health there's this towards sustained health there's this place where the church has gone through place where the church has gone through place where the church has gone through its launch phase it's gone through this its launch phase it's gone through this its launch phase it's gone through this season of momentum season of momentum season of momentum growth and they get stuck at this place growth and they get stuck at this place growth and they get stuck at this place where the church has kind of outgrown where the church has kind of outgrown where the church has kind of outgrown itself in that it's gone from being just

itself in that it's gone from being just itself in that it's gone from being just a personality to more there are more a personality to more there are more a personality to more there are more people gathering and it starts to take people gathering and it starts to take people gathering and it starts to take strategies and systems be structure strategies and systems be structure strategies and systems be structure really before the church can move really before the church can move really before the church can move forward and so that's one place that we forward and so that's one place that we forward and so that's one place that we see the church getting stuck the second see the church getting stuck the second see the church getting stuck the second place is it's kind of the church moves place is it's kind of the church moves place is it's kind of the church moves from experiencing sustained health to from experiencing sustained health to from experiencing sustained health to this place where now unfortunately over this place where now unfortunately over this place where now unfortunately over time they become a little bit more time they become a little bit more time they become a little bit more inward focused that they tend to inward focused that they tend to inward focused that they tend to gravitate more towards what they've gravitate more towards what they've gravitate more towards what they've always done and it moot that church always done and it moot that church always done and it moot that church begins to move into this maintenance begins to move into this maintenance begins to move into this maintenance season and what the challenge there is season and what the challenge there is season and what the challenge there is many times they don't even know they're many times they don't even know they're many times they don't even know they're in that season they still think that in that season they still think that in that season they still think that they're experiencing strong health and they're experiencing strong health and they're experiencing strong health and growth and and what's crazy is this growth and and what's crazy is this growth and and what's crazy is this maintenance season the church maintenance season the church maintenance season the church financially can be the healthiest the financially can be the healthiest the financially can be the healthiest the church has ever been and so that tends church has ever been and so that tends church has ever been and so that tends to cover some of the underlying to cover some of the underlying to cover some of the underlying challenges that the church is facing and challenges that the church is facing and challenges that the church is facing and like I say many times they don't even like I say many times they don't even like I say many times they don't even know that they're encountering those know that they're encountering those know that they're encountering those challenges oh it's so true I actually challenges oh it's so true I actually challenges oh it's so true I actually I've said I've come in another company I've said I've come in another company I've said I've come in another company in other context that the most dangerous in other context that the most dangerous in other context that the most dangerous Church out there is one that's indica Church out there is one that's indica Church out there is one that's indica where the its impact is in decline so where the its impact is in decline so where the its impact is in decline so it's maybe you know decreased attendance it's maybe you know decreased attendance it's maybe you know decreased attendance decreased you know volunteerism decreased you know volunteerism decreased you know volunteerism decreased but actually the money is on decreased but actually the money is on decreased but actually the money is on the increase thereafter I'm you know the increase thereafter I'm you know the increase thereafter I'm you know they're actually seeing more money come they're actually seeing more money come they're actually seeing more money come in every year and and that happens you

in every year and and that happens you in every year and and that happens you run into those churches and the problem run into those churches and the problem run into those churches and the problem with those is they can become a zombie with those is they can become a zombie with those is they can become a zombie you know they could become a you know you know they could become a you know you know they could become a you know it's this walking dead kind of thing it's this walking dead kind of thing it's this walking dead kind of thing what let's talk about that church maybe what let's talk about that church maybe what let's talk about that church maybe for a little bit that you know the term for a little bit that you know the term for a little bit that you know the term that's that's that's maybe stuck um you that's that's that's maybe stuck um you that's that's that's maybe stuck um you know it's not they're not closing their know it's not they're not closing their know it's not they're not closing their doors they're not thinking hey we've got doors they're not thinking hey we've got doors they're not thinking hey we've got to you know pack things up but they're to you know pack things up but they're to you know pack things up but they're they're just kind of plateaued and maybe they're just kind of plateaued and maybe they're just kind of plateaued and maybe in just a slight decline what are some in just a slight decline what are some in just a slight decline what are some of the things that maybe the unstuck of the things that maybe the unstuck of the things that maybe the unstuck book could point towards helping them book could point towards helping them book could point towards helping them think about some next steps yeah well I think about some next steps yeah well I think about some next steps yeah well I mentioned one of them already I mean one mentioned one of them already I mean one mentioned one of them already I mean one of the key of the key of the key things these churches and they don't things these churches and they don't things these churches and they don't intentionally do this but over time they intentionally do this but over time they intentionally do this but over time they just tend to get more inward focused and just tend to get more inward focused and just tend to get more inward focused and so the I think just going back to who is so the I think just going back to who is so the I think just going back to who is it it it that God called us to reach and just that God called us to reach and just that God called us to reach and just getting a lot of clarity around that getting a lot of clarity around that getting a lot of clarity around that again and of course you know my hope again and of course you know my hope again and of course you know my hope would be they the church would identify would be they the church would identify would be they the church would identify it somebody outside the church and it somebody outside the church and it somebody outside the church and hopefully somebody outside the faith and hopefully somebody outside the faith and hopefully somebody outside the faith and if once they get clarity about who that if once they get clarity about who that if once they get clarity about who that person is then begin to look at how do person is then begin to look at how do person is then begin to look at how do we how do we intentionally create we how do we intentionally create we how do we intentionally create services create ministry environments services create ministry environments services create ministry environments create ministry strategies that help us create ministry strategies that help us create ministry strategies that help us not only reach that person but help that not only reach that person but help that not only reach that person but help that person begin to take steps toward Christ person begin to take steps toward Christ person begin to take steps toward Christ and so I think it does begin with kind and so I think it does begin with kind and so I think it does begin with kind of getting an outward focus but I'll of getting an outward focus but I'll of getting an outward focus but I'll tell you the other common issue with tell you the other common issue with tell you the other common issue with churches that get to this place is churches that get to this place is churches that get to this place is complexity hmm they just over over the complexity hmm they just over over the complexity hmm they just over over the years they continue to add on more and

years they continue to add on more and years they continue to add on more and more and more good ministry and the fact more and more good ministry and the fact more and more good ministry and the fact is each one of those ministries probably is each one of those ministries probably is each one of those ministries probably at least in a season we're reaching at least in a season we're reaching at least in a season we're reaching people helping people take steps in people helping people take steps in people helping people take steps in their faith but when you continue to add their faith but when you continue to add their faith but when you continue to add on and add on and add on without ever on and add on and add on without ever on and add on and add on without ever taking anything away and then without taking anything away and then without taking anything away and then without ever considering is what we're doing is ever considering is what we're doing is ever considering is what we're doing is how we're investing our limited how we're investing our limited how we're investing our limited resources or limited time our limited resources or limited time our limited resources or limited time our limited leadership is it continuing to have real leadership is it continuing to have real leadership is it continuing to have real impact as far as the number of people impact as far as the number of people impact as far as the number of people we're reaching and the steps that we're we're reaching and the steps that we're we're reaching and the steps that we're encouraging people to take and their encouraging people to take and their encouraging people to take and their faith journey when you don't assess and faith journey when you don't assess and faith journey when you don't assess and then prune then over time you're going then prune then over time you're going then prune then over time you're going to end up with a lot of things that to end up with a lot of things that to end up with a lot of things that you're trying to do probably not doing you're trying to do probably not doing you're trying to do probably not doing any of them very well and it just any of them very well and it just any of them very well and it just creates complexity which becomes a drain creates complexity which becomes a drain creates complexity which becomes a drain on the church and ultimately makes the on the church and ultimately makes the on the church and ultimately makes the church a little bit less effective I church a little bit less effective I church a little bit less effective I think in reaching people outside the think in reaching people outside the think in reaching people outside the faith and outside the church so those faith and outside the church so those faith and outside the church so those are kind of two of the big things we hit are kind of two of the big things we hit are kind of two of the big things we hit in the book when it comes to churches in the book when it comes to churches in the book when it comes to churches that have found themselves and that that have found themselves and that that have found themselves and that means means means season risk alright I'm going to push season risk alright I'm going to push season risk alright I'm going to push you a little bit on the first one I know you a little bit on the first one I know you a little bit on the first one I know that you know it's a lot of church that you know it's a lot of church that you know it's a lot of church leaders say listen of course I'm outward leaders say listen of course I'm outward leaders say listen of course I'm outward focused the reason why I got into focused the reason why I got into focused the reason why I got into ministry was to reach people far from ministry was to reach people far from ministry was to reach people far from Christ this is this is why I've given my Christ this is this is why I've given my Christ this is this is why I've given my life to this whole thing this is why I'm life to this whole thing this is why I'm life to this whole thing this is why I'm not a car sales and this is what I've not a car sales and this is what I've not a car sales and this is what I've what I've done what are some of the kind

what I've done what are some of the kind what I've done what are some of the kind of telltale signs from your perspective of telltale signs from your perspective of telltale signs from your perspective of a church that may think their outward of a church that may think their outward of a church that may think their outward focus but they're really not as that's focus but they're really not as that's focus but they're really not as that's one part one and then part two what one part one and then part two what one part one and then part two what would you say are a few maybe first would you say are a few maybe first would you say are a few maybe first steps you would suggest to a church to steps you would suggest to a church to steps you would suggest to a church to kind of start taking that step are there kind of start taking that step are there kind of start taking that step are there you know are there things that even with you know are there things that even with you know are there things that even with their leaders you could say hey well you their leaders you could say hey well you their leaders you could say hey well you know maybe we should try this or try know maybe we should try this or try know maybe we should try this or try that yeah I think it's pretty easy to that yeah I think it's pretty easy to that yeah I think it's pretty easy to tell because you can look at three big tell because you can look at three big tell because you can look at three big investments that churches make investments that churches make investments that churches make investment in their time in their space investment in their time in their space investment in their time in their space and in just financially the investment and in just financially the investment and in just financially the investment they're making and you just each of they're making and you just each of they're making and you just each of those assess let's just look at the those assess let's just look at the those assess let's just look at the percentage of time that we're giving to percentage of time that we're giving to percentage of time that we're giving to helping people that are currently helping people that are currently helping people that are currently connected to the church take their next connected to the church take their next connected to the church take their next steps toward Christ and then let's look steps toward Christ and then let's look steps toward Christ and then let's look at the percentage of time that we're at the percentage of time that we're at the percentage of time that we're investing to reach people outside the investing to reach people outside the investing to reach people outside the church and outside the faith and one church and outside the faith and one church and outside the faith and one simple exercise I'll have churches do simple exercise I'll have churches do simple exercise I'll have churches do Rich's list out everything that they do Rich's list out everything that they do Rich's list out everything that they do as a church every service every ministry as a church every service every ministry as a church every service every ministry every event they offer and then I'll every event they offer and then I'll every event they offer and then I'll invite the leadership just to put a invite the leadership just to put a invite the leadership just to put a check in that in one of two columns is check in that in one of two columns is check in that in one of two columns is this ministry event or service primarily this ministry event or service primarily this ministry event or service primarily for the person who's already in our for the person who's already in our for the person who's already in our church or is this intended to reach church or is this intended to reach church or is this intended to reach people outside the faith and outside the people outside the faith and outside the people outside the faith and outside the church and as you can imagine in most

church and as you can imagine in most church and as you can imagine in most cases where their time is really going cases where their time is really going cases where their time is really going is toward the person that's already is toward the person that's already is toward the person that's already convinced that Jesus is Christ they're convinced that Jesus is Christ they're convinced that Jesus is Christ they're already convinced that he's their Lord already convinced that he's their Lord already convinced that he's their Lord and Savior it's for the person that's and Savior it's for the person that's and Savior it's for the person that's inside the church already and so I think inside the church already and so I think inside the church already and so I think yeah I don't know that it should be a 50 yeah I don't know that it should be a 50 yeah I don't know that it should be a 50 split that I don't agree that are all it split that I don't agree that are all it split that I don't agree that are all it all should go towards the person outside all should go towards the person outside all should go towards the person outside the church but there the church but there the church but there to be a better balance in our ministries to be a better balance in our ministries to be a better balance in our ministries toward reaching the person outside the toward reaching the person outside the toward reaching the person outside the faith and helping people who are already faith and helping people who are already faith and helping people who are already connected to the church take their next connected to the church take their next connected to the church take their next steps toward Christ there needs to be a steps toward Christ there needs to be a steps toward Christ there needs to be a healthier balance there because over healthier balance there because over healthier balance there because over time our natural I just heard Andy time our natural I just heard Andy time our natural I just heard Andy Stanley talk about it this week he said Stanley talk about it this week he said Stanley talk about it this week he said the natural gravitational pull is for the natural gravitational pull is for the natural gravitational pull is for the church to give focus to the person the church to give focus to the person the church to give focus to the person who's already connected to the ministry who's already connected to the ministry who's already connected to the ministry so true so true what about on the so true so true what about on the so true so true what about on the complexity side are there may be complexity side are there may be complexity side are there may be low-hanging fruit complexity that you low-hanging fruit complexity that you low-hanging fruit complexity that you know church leaders that are listening know church leaders that are listening know church leaders that are listening in today you're like ik is a I think we in today you're like ik is a I think we in today you're like ik is a I think we all have those things in our church that all have those things in our church that all have those things in our church that if we're completely honest with like if we're completely honest with like if we're completely honest with like gosh I'm not sure how we're going to get gosh I'm not sure how we're going to get gosh I'm not sure how we're going to get out of that it's going to take some time out of that it's going to take some time out of that it's going to take some time but there's probably things that are but there's probably things that are but there's probably things that are just low-hanging that we could just like just low-hanging that we could just like just low-hanging that we could just like hey we could cut these three things and hey we could cut these three things and hey we could cut these three things and it would make no difference are there it would make no difference are there it would make no difference are there things you see from your kind of things you see from your kind of things you see from your kind of outsider perspective that you'd be like outsider perspective that you'd be like outsider perspective that you'd be like hey you should just get rid of that so hey you should just get rid of that so hey you should just get rid of that so it's tough to do this without a white it's tough to do this without a white it's tough to do this without a white board so maybe you can include this board so maybe you can include this board so maybe you can include this graphic on your show notes but through graphic on your show notes but through graphic on your show notes but through the through the Patterson process that the through the Patterson process that the through the Patterson process that we use we create this it's it's kind of we use we create this it's it's kind of we use we create this it's it's kind of a this for box matrix and it's

a this for box matrix and it's a this for box matrix and it's considering two factors on the top of considering two factors on the top of considering two factors on the top of the chart is the opportunity for life the chart is the opportunity for life the chart is the opportunity for life change that exists with everything that change that exists with everything that change that exists with everything that we do and on the left side of the chart we do and on the left side of the chart we do and on the left side of the chart it's the investment it's the risk that's it's the investment it's the risk that's it's the investment it's the risk that's included and in that risk it's risk included and in that risk it's risk included and in that risk it's risk financially space time leadership financially space time leadership financially space time leadership communications just losing focus there's communications just losing focus there's communications just losing focus there's a risk associated with that and again we a risk associated with that and again we a risk associated with that and again we asked purchas to plot in this chart in asked purchas to plot in this chart in asked purchas to plot in this chart in these four boxes where are you is it these four boxes where are you is it these four boxes where are you is it high opportunity for life change in a high opportunity for life change in a high opportunity for life change in a high risk it's a high opportunity for high risk it's a high opportunity for high risk it's a high opportunity for life change but lower risk associated life change but lower risk associated life change but lower risk associated with it the key though for this with it the key though for this with it the key though for this conversation on complexity is to look at conversation on complexity is to look at conversation on complexity is to look at the things that end up on the left side the things that end up on the left side the things that end up on the left side of this chart that are going to offer of this chart that are going to offer of this chart that are going to offer lower opportunity for life change it lower opportunity for life change it lower opportunity for life change it doesn't mean that there's no life change doesn't mean that there's no life change doesn't mean that there's no life change happening it just means when it comes to happening it just means when it comes to happening it just means when it comes to new people receiving Christ and then new people receiving Christ and then new people receiving Christ and then people taking steps toward faith it's people taking steps toward faith it's people taking steps toward faith it's just not happening as often just not happening as often just not happening as often and in some of those instances there's a and in some of those instances there's a and in some of those instances there's a high investment that's taking pull off high investment that's taking pull off high investment that's taking pull off this ministry that's not producing much this ministry that's not producing much this ministry that's not producing much life change and we call that foolish life change and we call that foolish life change and we call that foolish yeah the thing is when it when it lands yeah the thing is when it when it lands yeah the thing is when it when it lands their churches tend to push the stop their churches tend to push the stop their churches tend to push the stop button pretty quickly right because button pretty quickly right because button pretty quickly right because they're not seeing a lot of life change they're not seeing a lot of life change they're not seeing a lot of life change but they're investing a lot of resources but they're investing a lot of resources but they're investing a lot of resources to pull it off and so they'll stop doing to pull it off and so they'll stop doing to pull it off and so they'll stop doing it the dangerous place to be in this

it the dangerous place to be in this it the dangerous place to be in this exercise is in the lower-left box this exercise is in the lower-left box this exercise is in the lower-left box this is the place where there's little life is the place where there's little life is the place where there's little life change happening but it doesn't require change happening but it doesn't require change happening but it doesn't require a big investment there's not a lot of a big investment there's not a lot of a big investment there's not a lot of risk and so for churches that get risk and so for churches that get risk and so for churches that get complex particularly on the right side complex particularly on the right side complex particularly on the right side of this lifecycle where they started to of this lifecycle where they started to of this lifecycle where they started to experience some decline in their impact experience some decline in their impact experience some decline in their impact they end up with quite a few things in they end up with quite a few things in they end up with quite a few things in this lower left quadrant and in the this lower left quadrant and in the this lower left quadrant and in the Patterson process they call the security Patterson process they call the security Patterson process they call the security I take a little bit more I'd call it I take a little bit more I'd call it I take a little bit more I'd call it it's a little bit more bluntly I call it's a little bit more bluntly I call it's a little bit more bluntly I call these the sacred cow analysis and I've these the sacred cow analysis and I've these the sacred cow analysis and I've actually been in India and the cows are actually been in India and the cows are actually been in India and the cows are sacred they're right but here it's more sacred they're right but here it's more sacred they're right but here it's more figurative but here if we end up with figurative but here if we end up with figurative but here if we end up with too many sacred cows it can create a too many sacred cows it can create a too many sacred cows it can create a real drain on resources and pull away real drain on resources and pull away real drain on resources and pull away from the things that as churches we from the things that as churches we from the things that as churches we could be doing to reach more people for could be doing to reach more people for could be doing to reach more people for Jesus and so with sacred cows you have Jesus and so with sacred cows you have Jesus and so with sacred cows you have two choices you can either kill the cow two choices you can either kill the cow two choices you can either kill the cow or you can starve the cow now rich just or you can starve the cow now rich just or you can starve the cow now rich just so you know I love cows again we're not so you know I love cows again we're not so you know I love cows again we're not talking about literal values or sacred talking about literal values or sacred talking about literal values or sacred cave your emails don't email Tony don't cave your emails don't email Tony don't cave your emails don't email Tony don't write that's right write that's right write that's right so we either need to stop these so we either need to stop these so we either need to stop these ministries or we need to starve these ministries or we need to starve these ministries or we need to starve these ministries in other words we don't give ministries in other words we don't give ministries in other words we don't give them more platform time we don't give them more platform time we don't give them more platform time we don't give them financial resources we don't give

them financial resources we don't give them financial resources we don't give them staff leadership focus eventually them staff leadership focus eventually them staff leadership focus eventually these these ministries is tough but they these these ministries is tough but they these these ministries is tough but they need to fade away so that we can need to fade away so that we can need to fade away so that we can we every Church has limited resources we every Church has limited resources we every Church has limited resources and because of that we have to store and because of that we have to store and because of that we have to store those limited resources well and the those limited resources well and the those limited resources well and the objective then is we need to over time objective then is we need to over time objective then is we need to over time stop doing some things that aren't stop doing some things that aren't stop doing some things that aren't producing much fruit we need to prune producing much fruit we need to prune producing much fruit we need to prune which is a biblical principle by the way which is a biblical principle by the way which is a biblical principle by the way so that we can experience more fruit in so that we can experience more fruit in so that we can experience more fruit in the things that really have the the things that really have the the things that really have the potential to produce life change so potential to produce life change so potential to produce life change so that's that's kind of my quick take rich that's that's kind of my quick take rich that's that's kind of my quick take rich and hopefully that graphic on your show and hopefully that graphic on your show and hopefully that graphic on your show notes will help ya will get that in notes will help ya will get that in notes will help ya will get that in there for sure now it true that you've there for sure now it true that you've there for sure now it true that you've got an online assessment tool that got an online assessment tool that got an online assessment tool that you've put together for the book because you've put together for the book because you've put together for the book because I thought of what I was thinking is I I thought of what I was thinking is I I thought of what I was thinking is I think there's folks that are listening think there's folks that are listening think there's folks that are listening in that are like oh man first of all I in that are like oh man first of all I in that are like oh man first of all I want to get the book but there where am want to get the book but there where am want to get the book but there where am I on this whole you know try out that I on this whole you know try out that I on this whole you know try out that you're talking about you tell us about you're talking about you tell us about you're talking about you tell us about that that that yeah so there to help like I said this yeah so there to help like I said this yeah so there to help like I said this lifecycle the church that we cover in lifecycle the church that we cover in lifecycle the church that we cover in the book hits seven different phases and the book hits seven different phases and the book hits seven different phases and we want to make it easy as possible for we want to make it easy as possible for we want to make it easy as possible for churches to identify what season are we churches to identify what season are we churches to identify what season are we in as a church and so the assessment the in as a church and so the assessment the in as a church and so the assessment the unstuck church assessment it's on the unstuck church assessment it's on the unstuck church assessment it's on the website it's free we'll share the link website it's free we'll share the link website it's free we'll share the link with you so that you can your listeners with you so that you can your listeners with you so that you can your listeners can go through the assessment and here's can go through the assessment and here's can go through the assessment and here's the great thing about that assessment the great thing about that assessment the great thing about that assessment you can just do it on your own if you're you can just do it on your own if you're you can just do it on your own if you're a pastor or a leader at the church or

a pastor or a leader at the church or a pastor or a leader at the church or better yet you can invite your team to better yet you can invite your team to better yet you can invite your team to do it and it's free for everybody so do it and it's free for everybody so do it and it's free for everybody so your whole team can do this for free and your whole team can do this for free and your whole team can do this for free and actually you're going to get better actually you're going to get better actually you're going to get better results with more perspective you results with more perspective you results with more perspective you include in this assessment but here's a include in this assessment but here's a include in this assessment but here's a good thing you'll you'll take the good thing you'll you'll take the good thing you'll you'll take the assessment you'll identify where on the assessment you'll identify where on the assessment you'll identify where on the lifecycle your churches and then we'll lifecycle your churches and then we'll lifecycle your churches and then we'll give you a few steps that you can take give you a few steps that you can take give you a few steps that you can take coming out of that assessment online but coming out of that assessment online but coming out of that assessment online but it'll give a lot more weight than to it'll give a lot more weight than to it'll give a lot more weight than to what you're reading in the book because what you're reading in the book because what you're reading in the book because as a team you'll be able to take a look as a team you'll be able to take a look as a team you'll be able to take a look at the next steps that we offer with at the next steps that we offer with at the next steps that we offer with with each of these seven seasons of the with each of these seven seasons of the with each of these seven seasons of the church and hopefully we'll give you a church and hopefully we'll give you a church and hopefully we'll give you a lot of focus about what you can be doing lot of focus about what you can be doing lot of focus about what you can be doing next as a ministry to help you move next as a ministry to help you move next as a ministry to help you move towards sustained health very cool well towards sustained health very cool well towards sustained health very cool well why don't you tell us about the book why don't you tell us about the book why don't you tell us about the book give us a you know why did you write it give us a you know why did you write it give us a you know why did you write it obviously you've given us a good obviously you've given us a good obviously you've given us a good good overview but this you know in some good overview but this you know in some good overview but this you know in some ways it got to be honest I feel like ways it got to be honest I feel like ways it got to be honest I feel like you're giving away your whole business you're giving away your whole business you're giving away your whole business here you're like you're talking about here you're like you're talking about here you're like you're talking about the whole thing the whole thing the whole thing you know give us a sense you know why you know give us a sense you know why you know give us a sense you know why did you why did you write it and and did you why did you write it and and did you why did you write it and and what do you hope that people get out of what do you hope that people get out of what do you hope that people get out of it obviously it's what we've been it obviously it's what we've been it obviously it's what we've been talking about but give us a little more talking about but give us a little more talking about but give us a little more detail detail detail yeah well the why is this it's because yeah well the why is this it's because yeah well the why is this it's because it really is because Jesus changed my it really is because Jesus changed my it really is because Jesus changed my life rich and so I know what my life was life rich and so I know what my life was life rich and so I know what my life was like before Christ I was a sinner like before Christ I was a sinner like before Christ I was a sinner without forgiveness I didn't have without forgiveness I didn't have without forgiveness I didn't have purpose for my life I didn't have hope purpose for my life I didn't have hope purpose for my life I didn't have hope for my future I I did I mean my parents

for my future I I did I mean my parents for my future I I did I mean my parents loved me I love my parents but there was loved me I love my parents but there was loved me I love my parents but there was a sense that I was not good enough for a sense that I was not good enough for a sense that I was not good enough for God and Jesus Jesus paid the price for God and Jesus Jesus paid the price for God and Jesus Jesus paid the price for me and so I know for me what he did for me and so I know for me what he did for me and so I know for me what he did for me and ultimately I believe it's the me and ultimately I believe it's the me and ultimately I believe it's the local church that's his plan for helping local church that's his plan for helping local church that's his plan for helping other people like me experience a other people like me experience a other people like me experience a relationship with Christ take steps in relationship with Christ take steps in relationship with Christ take steps in their faith their faith their faith I'm forgiveness find hope find purpose I'm forgiveness find hope find purpose I'm forgiveness find hope find purpose for their lives I believe it's the local for their lives I believe it's the local for their lives I believe it's the local church that's God's design sorting church that's God's design sorting church that's God's design sorting mission get carried out and so that mission get carried out and so that mission get carried out and so that that's really why I wrote the book that's really why I wrote the book that's really why I wrote the book because I I want churches I want and I because I I want churches I want and I because I I want churches I want and I don't deny this don't deny this don't deny this I want churches help to be healthy and I I want churches help to be healthy and I I want churches help to be healthy and I find healthy churches to grow because I find healthy churches to grow because I find healthy churches to grow because I figure as as healthy churches get figure as as healthy churches get figure as as healthy churches get healthy and as churches grow more people healthy and as churches grow more people healthy and as churches grow more people get to experience the relationship with get to experience the relationship with get to experience the relationship with Jesus that I experienced and so you're Jesus that I experienced and so you're Jesus that I experienced and so you're right I'm kind of giving it all away but right I'm kind of giving it all away but right I'm kind of giving it all away but I figure if I do that more churches will I figure if I do that more churches will I figure if I do that more churches will take advantage of it more churches take advantage of it more churches take advantage of it more churches they'll get helping also ultimately more they'll get helping also ultimately more they'll get helping also ultimately more people will have what I have which I people will have what I have which I people will have what I have which I just that's I've given my life to that just that's I've given my life to that just that's I've given my life to that rich they're fantastic well you know I rich they're fantastic well you know I rich they're fantastic well you know I often don't have a lot of authors on and often don't have a lot of authors on and often don't have a lot of authors on and but I would highly recommend that folks but I would highly recommend that folks but I would highly recommend that folks pick this book up the un-- pick this book up the un-- pick this book up the un-- just called the unstuck Church you can just called the unstuck Church you can just called the unstuck Church you can get it at assuming Amazon you know get it at assuming Amazon you know get it at assuming Amazon you know everywhere find books are sold we'll everywhere find books are sold we'll everywhere find books are sold we'll have links in the show notes about it or

have links in the show notes about it or have links in the show notes about it or you can follow you know you can pick it you can follow you know you can pick it you can follow you know you can pick it up from Tony's you know on Tony's up from Tony's you know on Tony's up from Tony's you know on Tony's profiles and all that but I really would profiles and all that but I really would profiles and all that but I really would encourage you to pick it up it's one of encourage you to pick it up it's one of encourage you to pick it up it's one of these books you know I would grab a copy these books you know I would grab a copy these books you know I would grab a copy of it read it through this summer with of it read it through this summer with of it read it through this summer with your team would be a great kind of your team would be a great kind of your team would be a great kind of summer you know book to read through and summer you know book to read through and summer you know book to read through and really really think about the fall take really really think about the fall take really really think about the fall take a maybe we need to be thinking a maybe we need to be thinking a maybe we need to be thinking differently about church even as we differently about church even as we differently about church even as we relaunch because there is that kind of relaunch because there is that kind of relaunch because there is that kind of natural shift here that happens in in natural shift here that happens in in natural shift here that happens in in church life is there anything else you church life is there anything else you church life is there anything else you want to say before we kind of change want to say before we kind of change want to say before we kind of change gears here Tony yeah now the only the gears here Tony yeah now the only the gears here Tony yeah now the only the only thing I would say is I'm I've been only thing I would say is I'm I've been only thing I would say is I'm I've been praying for myself for this and I'm praying for myself for this and I'm praying for myself for this and I'm praying as churches engaged this book praying as churches engaged this book praying as churches engaged this book that God will interrupt them because I that God will interrupt them because I that God will interrupt them because I think as as Christ followers and the think as as Christ followers and the think as as Christ followers and the church I think we need to be interrupted church I think we need to be interrupted church I think we need to be interrupted and when we do that I think it's going and when we do that I think it's going and when we do that I think it's going to cause us to pause and just kind of to cause us to pause and just kind of to cause us to pause and just kind of assess where are we where does God want assess where are we where does God want assess where are we where does God want us to go in the future and then us to go in the future and then us to go in the future and then hopefully we'll create an intentional hopefully we'll create an intentional hopefully we'll create an intentional plan of next steps to get to the place plan of next steps to get to the place plan of next steps to get to the place in our own spiritual journey but also as in our own spiritual journey but also as in our own spiritual journey but also as churches we're really living out God's churches we're really living out God's churches we're really living out God's design for our ministry so that's what design for our ministry so that's what design for our ministry so that's what I'm praying for is that we'll all I'm praying for is that we'll all I'm praying for is that we'll all experience an interruption experience an interruption experience an interruption this is the unsee Maneri podcast stuff this is the unsee Maneri podcast stuff this is the unsee Maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well you wish they taught in seminary well you wish they taught in seminary well we're going to jump into the lightning we're going to jump into the lightning we're going to jump into the lightning round that part of the episode where we round that part of the episode where we round that part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody ask similar questions of everybody ask similar questions of everybody that's on the on the show super excited that's on the on the show super excited that's on the on the show super excited to have Tony Morgan with us today he's a to have Tony Morgan with us today he's a to have Tony Morgan with us today he's a really a thought leader someone you're really a thought leader someone you're really a thought leader someone you're going to want to follow if you're not going to want to follow if you're not going to want to follow if you're not already and just have been excited to be

already and just have been excited to be already and just have been excited to be talking about his his book today well talking about his his book today well talking about his his book today well why don't we jump in what is an online why don't we jump in what is an online why don't we jump in what is an online resource that you're using these days resource that you're using these days resource that you're using these days Tony that's helping you in what you do Tony that's helping you in what you do Tony that's helping you in what you do yeah it probably won't surprise you I am yeah it probably won't surprise you I am yeah it probably won't surprise you I am so I'm such a guy focused on action yes so I'm such a guy focused on action yes so I'm such a guy focused on action yes that the the thing that I can highlight that the the thing that I can highlight that the the thing that I can highlight here the solution is asana Asin a which here the solution is asana Asin a which here the solution is asana Asin a which our team our team is remote completely our team our team is remote completely our team our team is remote completely remote there are 20 of us working all remote there are 20 of us working all remote there are 20 of us working all across the world really and it's the across the world really and it's the across the world really and it's the tool that keeps all of us focused on the tool that keeps all of us focused on the tool that keeps all of us focused on the projects and tasks that we're working on projects and tasks that we're working on projects and tasks that we're working on and really helps with collaboration so and really helps with collaboration so and really helps with collaboration so asana nice very good what's a book asana nice very good what's a book asana nice very good what's a book you've read in the last six months to a you've read in the last six months to a you've read in the last six months to a year that's shaping your thing gear year that's shaping your thing gear year that's shaping your thing gear ministry which is dangerous for someone ministry which is dangerous for someone ministry which is dangerous for someone who who who just finished a book because I know you just finished a book because I know you just finished a book because I know you mostly trying to dig through and get mostly trying to dig through and get mostly trying to dig through and get your own thing done but what something your own thing done but what something your own thing done but what something you've been obviously know so a couple you've been obviously know so a couple you've been obviously know so a couple of things here are four disciplines of of things here are four disciplines of of things here are four disciplines of execution to continue with the theme of execution to continue with the theme of execution to continue with the theme of let's not just have a vision let's let's not just have a vision let's let's not just have a vision let's actually get the vision accomplished so actually get the vision accomplished so actually get the vision accomplished so that's been a game changer for me but that's been a game changer for me but that's been a game changer for me but then I also like reading presidential then I also like reading presidential then I also like reading presidential biographies and I just I just finished biographies and I just I just finished biographies and I just I just finished Andrew Jackson's biography and it would Andrew Jackson's biography and it would Andrew Jackson's biography and it would of considering the current times that of considering the current times that of considering the current times that were in it probably helped you to go were in it probably helped you to go were in it probably helped you to go back and read Andrew Jackson nice and a back and read Andrew Jackson nice and a back and read Andrew Jackson nice and a non political statement just as an non political statement just as an non political statement just as an interesting righteous interesting read interesting righteous interesting read interesting righteous interesting read yes now this question I was actually I yes now this question I was actually I yes now this question I was actually I was thinking when you earlier today I was thinking when you earlier today I was thinking when you earlier today I was like well I'm interested to hear

was like well I'm interested to hear was like well I'm interested to hear what Tony's saying about another what Tony's saying about another what Tony's saying about another ministry that inspires you you get a ministry that inspires you you get a ministry that inspires you you get a chance to see a lot of churches who's chance to see a lot of churches who's chance to see a lot of churches who's inspiring you these days yeah so because inspiring you these days yeah so because inspiring you these days yeah so because of that and it's been it's been a lot of of that and it's been it's been a lot of of that and it's been it's been a lot of in fact a couple months ago we in fact a couple months ago we in fact a couple months ago we celebrated being in our 200th church so celebrated being in our 200th church so celebrated being in our 200th church so on the ground with over 200 churches now on the ground with over 200 churches now on the ground with over 200 churches now and one of the churches that we got to and one of the churches that we got to and one of the churches that we got to connect with and last year was Rock connect with and last year was Rock connect with and last year was Rock Point Church in Leander Texas just Point Church in Leander Texas just Point Church in Leander Texas just outside of Austin and it's just a outside of Austin and it's just a outside of Austin and it's just a fabulous ministry they just went fabulous ministry they just went fabulous ministry they just went multi-site earlier this year they've multi-site earlier this year they've multi-site earlier this year they've made some significant changes in the made some significant changes in the made some significant changes in the last last 12 months about how they're last last 12 months about how they're last last 12 months about how they're doing student ministry and it's got doing student ministry and it's got doing student ministry and it's got there's just a lot of fruit that's there's just a lot of fruit that's there's just a lot of fruit that's coming out of their church and so I just coming out of their church and so I just coming out of their church and so I just just swarm their website and try to just swarm their website and try to just swarm their website and try to learn everything you can from them Rock learn everything you can from them Rock learn everything you can from them Rock Point Church and Leander Texas very cool Point Church and Leander Texas very cool Point Church and Leander Texas very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any if you could get 15 minutes with any if you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would that be with at leader alive who would that be with at leader alive who would that be with at life that's easy life that's easy life that's easy Elon Musk oh nice gosh I I'm not I don't Elon Musk oh nice gosh I I'm not I don't Elon Musk oh nice gosh I I'm not I don't think I'm a futurist but I'm definitely think I'm a futurist but I'm definitely think I'm a futurist but I'm definitely got some of that entrepreneurial thing got some of that entrepreneurial thing got some of that entrepreneurial thing into me I love creativity and innovation into me I love creativity and innovation into me I love creativity and innovation I don't think there's anybody pushing I don't think there's anybody pushing I don't think there's anybody pushing innovation as much as he is right now innovation as much as he is right now innovation as much as he is right now and I'm just curious to see how he does and I'm just curious to see how he does and I'm just curious to see how he does that absolutely it's amazing all right that absolutely it's amazing all right that absolutely it's amazing all right well I'm sure you know trying to serve well I'm sure you know trying to serve well I'm sure you know trying to serve two hundred churches trying to write two hundred churches trying to write two hundred churches trying to write books it seems like you're always coming books it seems like you're always coming books it seems like you're always coming up with something new it takes a lot of up with something new it takes a lot of up with something new it takes a lot of pressure in life what do you do when you pressure in life what do you do when you pressure in life what do you do when you just want to kind of kick back relax just want to kind of kick back relax just want to kind of kick back relax have some fun have some fun have some fun well mainly I want to hang out with my well mainly I want to hang out with my well mainly I want to hang out with my wife al Moines but when she's tired with

wife al Moines but when she's tired with wife al Moines but when she's tired with me I pee a no really yeah me I pee a no really yeah me I pee a no really yeah just for myself though I but that was my just for myself though I but that was my just for myself though I but that was my best ride buddy yeah it's a total Morgan best ride buddy yeah it's a total Morgan best ride buddy yeah it's a total Morgan album coming out and here just a just a album coming out and here just a just a album coming out and here just a just a couple weeks ago I got to go to the couple weeks ago I got to go to the couple weeks ago I got to go to the Billy Joel concert for the first time Billy Joel concert for the first time Billy Joel concert for the first time and that's he's my hero so when I want and that's he's my hero so when I want and that's he's my hero so when I want to relax I'll turn on a digital album to relax I'll turn on a digital album to relax I'll turn on a digital album and play along with them very cool well and play along with them very cool well and play along with them very cool well I appreciate you on the show today Tony I appreciate you on the show today Tony I appreciate you on the show today Tony if people want to get in touch with the if people want to get in touch with the if people want to get in touch with the unstuck group or with the book and all unstuck group or with the book and all unstuck group or with the book and all that what's the best way for them to do that what's the best way for them to do that what's the best way for them to do that we make it pretty easy it's simple that we make it pretty easy it's simple that we make it pretty easy it's simple it's the unstuck group calm and you can it's the unstuck group calm and you can it's the unstuck group calm and you can figure out all the details from there figure out all the details from there figure out all the details from there great thanks so much Tony appreciate be great thanks so much Tony appreciate be great thanks so much Tony appreciate be on the show today thanks Rick thank you on the show today thanks Rick thank you on the show today thanks Rick thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung re for tuning in to this week's unsung re for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you connect check out on seminary inbox you can sign up at unsummon airy calm and can sign up at unsummon airy calm and can sign up at unsummon airy calm and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode a out the show notes for this episode a out the show notes for this episode a ton seminary comm it includes links to ton seminary comm it includes links to ton seminary comm it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on again for tuning in to this week's on similary podcast join us next week when similary podcast join us next week when similary podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary