Josh Baird on Rebooting Groups to Increase Engagement

today's on seminary podcast episode is today's on seminary podcast episode is brought to you by Regal theater Church brought to you by Regal theater Church brought to you by Regal theater Church the only theatre company providing the only theatre company providing the only theatre company providing full-service consultation for churches full-service consultation for churches full-service consultation for churches wanting to create dynamic worship wanting to create dynamic worship wanting to create dynamic worship services in familiar culturally relevant services in familiar culturally relevant services in familiar culturally relevant venues the local movie theater with lots venues the local movie theater with lots venues the local movie theater with lots of parking spacious lobbies plenty of of parking spacious lobbies plenty of of parking spacious lobbies plenty of bathrooms and a perfect view of the bathrooms and a perfect view of the bathrooms and a perfect view of the screen from a comfortable seat screen from a comfortable seat screen from a comfortable seat regal theatres are ideal for church regal theatres are ideal for church regal theatres are ideal for church plants and multi sites learn more at plants and multi sites learn more at plants and multi sites learn more at Regal theater Church comm or call their Regal theater Church comm or call their Regal theater Church comm or call their incredible team at one eight hundred incredible team at one eight hundred incredible team at one eight hundred seven nine two eight two four four today seven nine two eight two four four today seven nine two eight two four four today welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster to drive our ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast that you this week's on seminary podcast that you this week's on seminary podcast that you decided to tune in today my name is rich decided to tune in today my name is rich decided to tune in today my name is rich i'm the host around these parts i'm so i'm the host around these parts i'm so i'm the host around these parts i'm so glad that you're here today we've got glad that you're here today we've got glad that you're here today we've got pastor josh baird with us from the Life pastor josh baird with us from the Life pastor josh baird with us from the Life Church this is a great church founded in Church this is a great church founded in Church this is a great church founded in 1999 their multi-ethnic 1999 their multi-ethnic 1999 their multi-ethnic multi-generational Church with and multi-generational Church with and multi-generational Church with and multi-site so lots of multis in Virginia multi-site so lots of multis in Virginia multi-site so lots of multis in Virginia in the kind of Greater Washington DC in the kind of Greater Washington DC in the kind of Greater Washington DC area area area Josh's associate pastor and also a Josh's associate pastor and also a Josh's associate pastor and also a campus pastor so Josh welcome to the campus pastor so Josh welcome to the campus pastor so Josh welcome to the show thank you very much it's an honor show thank you very much it's an honor show thank you very much it's an honor to be here yeah I wonder if you could to be here yeah I wonder if you could to be here yeah I wonder if you could start by giving us kind of a sense of start by giving us kind of a sense of start by giving us kind of a sense of the church tell us about your church the church tell us about your church the church tell us about your church give us maybe a little bit of the give us maybe a little bit of the give us maybe a little bit of the history or if people were to show up history or if people were to show up history or if people were to show up this weekend what would they experience

this weekend what would they experience this weekend what would they experience yeah a little bit of history is we've yeah a little bit of history is we've yeah a little bit of history is we've been a we call ourselves a small church been a we call ourselves a small church been a we call ourselves a small church that accidentally got big we've been that accidentally got big we've been that accidentally got big we've been small for many years you know I grew up small for many years you know I grew up small for many years you know I grew up as a pastor's kid in a church of 200 as a pastor's kid in a church of 200 as a pastor's kid in a church of 200 people and we loved it always a lot of people and we loved it always a lot of people and we loved it always a lot of church my dad is the pastor here and church my dad is the pastor here and church my dad is the pastor here and it's just been a fun ride and kind of it's just been a fun ride and kind of it's just been a fun ride and kind of just been doing the same thing for a just been doing the same thing for a just been doing the same thing for a long time and finally around 2010 we got long time and finally around 2010 we got long time and finally around 2010 we got connected to the grow network with connected to the grow network with connected to the grow network with Church of the Highlands and I just Church of the Highlands and I just Church of the Highlands and I just tweaked a few things doing a lot of the tweaked a few things doing a lot of the tweaked a few things doing a lot of the same stuff just staying faithful to same stuff just staying faithful to same stuff just staying faithful to tweak'd a few things and we just tweak'd a few things and we just tweak'd a few things and we just exploded in growth and so the last six exploded in growth and so the last six exploded in growth and so the last six or so years have just been an incredible or so years have just been an incredible or so years have just been an incredible ride of growth and and so yeah when you ride of growth and and so yeah when you ride of growth and and so yeah when you all all all and it's just kind of you know and it's just kind of you know and it's just kind of you know high-energy lots of young people you high-energy lots of young people you high-energy lots of young people you know a high energy environment intense know a high energy environment intense know a high energy environment intense worship about an hour and ten minutes worship about an hour and ten minutes worship about an hour and ten minutes service and just reaching reaching lots service and just reaching reaching lots service and just reaching reaching lots of people getting a lot of people saved of people getting a lot of people saved of people getting a lot of people saved and and so kind of the challenge now is and and so kind of the challenge now is and and so kind of the challenge now is getting all those people connected as if getting all those people connected as if getting all those people connected as if it's a very common challenge but that's it's a very common challenge but that's it's a very common challenge but that's definitely our challenge right now so definitely our challenge right now so definitely our challenge right now so absolutely well you know I I know a lot absolutely well you know I I know a lot absolutely well you know I I know a lot of folks when they look at a high kind of folks when they look at a high kind of folks when they look at a high kind of growth Church like yourself it's easy of growth Church like yourself it's easy of growth Church like yourself it's easy to look at the front door and say like to look at the front door and say like to look at the front door and say like wow you know they're doing a lot of wow you know they're doing a lot of wow you know they're doing a lot of stuff great on the on the front end stuff great on the on the front end stuff great on the on the front end which you know which your church clearly which you know which your church clearly which you know which your church clearly is but the thing I want to talk about is but the thing I want to talk about is but the thing I want to talk about today is how are you getting people today is how are you getting people today is how are you getting people connected what does that actually look connected what does that actually look connected what does that actually look like right you mentioned grow you like right you mentioned grow you like right you mentioned grow you mentioned Church of the highlands but mentioned Church of the highlands but mentioned Church of the highlands but let's stick into that how does someone let's stick into that how does someone let's stick into that how does someone if you know if they were to come to your if you know if they were to come to your if you know if they were to come to your church actually get plugged in what does

church actually get plugged in what does church actually get plugged in what does that look like yeah well there's there's that look like yeah well there's there's that look like yeah well there's there's two ways really and the first way is to two ways really and the first way is to two ways really and the first way is to jump on a team and we call our our event jump on a team and we call our our event jump on a team and we call our our event fusion and we do it once a month you fusion and we do it once a month you fusion and we do it once a month you know a lot of churches do every week and know a lot of churches do every week and know a lot of churches do every week and different types of things we've landed different types of things we've landed different types of things we've landed on once a month and they can come in on once a month and they can come in on once a month and they can come in learn about the church find out about learn about the church find out about learn about the church find out about membership and it's a three hour event membership and it's a three hour event membership and it's a three hour event so it's long that we serve them dinner so it's long that we serve them dinner so it's long that we serve them dinner and and then we train them and they can and and then we train them and they can and and then we train them and they can get on a team right there that night and get on a team right there that night and get on a team right there that night and so that's that's the the kind of the so that's that's the the kind of the so that's that's the the kind of the team and the serving aspect and then team and the serving aspect and then team and the serving aspect and then small groups is the other way is we we small groups is the other way is we we small groups is the other way is we we tell people that that our vision for tell people that that our vision for tell people that that our vision for your life is for you to be connected and your life is for you to be connected and your life is for you to be connected and relationship and for you to be serving relationship and for you to be serving relationship and for you to be serving the church and serving God's kingdom and the church and serving God's kingdom and the church and serving God's kingdom and so those are kind of the main two ways so those are kind of the main two ways so those are kind of the main two ways small groups and and serving on a team small groups and and serving on a team small groups and and serving on a team nice well let's let's maybe dig into the nice well let's let's maybe dig into the nice well let's let's maybe dig into the small group thing one of the things I small group thing one of the things I small group thing one of the things I appreciate about you just we've had a appreciate about you just we've had a appreciate about you just we've had a little bit of interaction via email and little bit of interaction via email and little bit of interaction via email and I just love your authenticity I think a I just love your authenticity I think a I just love your authenticity I think a lot of a lot of churches you know most lot of a lot of churches you know most lot of a lot of churches you know most of the people who are listening in today of the people who are listening in today of the people who are listening in today they would say oh yeah yeah groups they would say oh yeah yeah groups they would say oh yeah yeah groups they're really important that's they're really important that's they're really important that's something we should do but that some of something we should do but that some of something we should do but that some of that can just be a lip service to the that can just be a lip service to the that can just be a lip service to the group's there right they really haven't group's there right they really haven't group's there right they really haven't built structure around us you know why built structure around us you know why built structure around us you know why don't you tell me about that tell me don't you tell me about that tell me don't you tell me about that tell me about what you've done that's maybe a about what you've done that's maybe a about what you've done that's maybe a little different yeah we you know again little different yeah we you know again little different yeah we you know again if I'm just being honest if I'm just being honest if I'm just being honest we all say that small groups are we all say that small groups are we all say that small groups are important because we know in our head important because we know in our head important because we know in our head that they are but if I'm being honest I that they are but if I'm being honest I that they are but if I'm being honest I hate them um and and it seems like we hate them um and and it seems like we hate them um and and it seems like we never have time for them it seems like never have time for them it seems like never have time for them it seems like they're awkward you know I they're awkward you know I they're awkward you know I I can stand on the stage and talk to I can stand on the stage and talk to I can stand on the stage and talk to people but usually as pastors that the people but usually as pastors that the people but usually as pastors that the group of six or eight is kind of awkward group of six or eight is kind of awkward group of six or eight is kind of awkward and so we never really as the leadership

and so we never really as the leadership and so we never really as the leadership would get on board with it we would we would get on board with it we would we would get on board with it we would we would say that it's important we would would say that it's important we would would say that it's important we would do small group semesters we called small do small group semesters we called small do small group semesters we called small groups every single name that you could groups every single name that you could groups every single name that you could call them we tried gimmicks we tried call them we tried gimmicks we tried call them we tried gimmicks we tried bribes we paid people I'm just getting bribes we paid people I'm just getting bribes we paid people I'm just getting rid of a people but we try we tried rid of a people but we try we tried rid of a people but we try we tried everything that we could and you know at everything that we could and you know at everything that we could and you know at the end of the day we realized that we the end of the day we realized that we the end of the day we realized that we really weren't bought in ourselves and really weren't bought in ourselves and really weren't bought in ourselves and and and just being super transparent and and just being super transparent and and just being super transparent hopefully it'll help somebody that's hopefully it'll help somebody that's hopefully it'll help somebody that's tuning in is you know we we would try to tuning in is you know we we would try to tuning in is you know we we would try to fit small groups as leaders sometimes fit small groups as leaders sometimes fit small groups as leaders sometimes into our work week we try to fit into into our work week we try to fit into into our work week we try to fit into our 40 hours and one of the things that our 40 hours and one of the things that our 40 hours and one of the things that my dad as the leader said is it came to my dad as the leader said is it came to my dad as the leader said is it came to the point where he just said we can't the point where he just said we can't the point where he just said we can't ask our people who are working 9:00 to ask our people who are working 9:00 to ask our people who are working 9:00 to 5:00 s and then we want them to get in 5:00 s and then we want them to get in 5:00 s and then we want them to get in small groups but you're fitting your small groups but you're fitting your small groups but you're fitting your small group in your work week as the small group in your work week as the small group in your work week as the leaders he said we can't ask them to do leaders he said we can't ask them to do leaders he said we can't ask them to do something that we're not doing and so we something that we're not doing and so we something that we're not doing and so we just had lots of challenges and we're in just had lots of challenges and we're in just had lots of challenges and we're in the DC metro area and so just like the DC metro area and so just like the DC metro area and so just like everybody's got their excuses why small everybody's got their excuses why small everybody's got their excuses why small groups don't work ours is traffic yeah groups don't work ours is traffic yeah groups don't work ours is traffic yeah you've got commuting an hour each way you've got commuting an hour each way you've got commuting an hour each way and it's crazy and so we had all of our and it's crazy and so we had all of our and it's crazy and so we had all of our excuses but we were we were given it lip excuses but we were we were given it lip excuses but we were we were given it lip service and we were going through the service and we were going through the service and we were going through the motions but um but it all changed about motions but um but it all changed about motions but um but it all changed about a year ago when we really decided to a year ago when we really decided to a year ago when we really decided to make an intentional improvement to it make an intentional improvement to it make an intentional improvement to it and we can talk a little bit about that and we can talk a little bit about that and we can talk a little bit about that yeah the thing I don't want to miss this yeah the thing I don't want to miss this yeah the thing I don't want to miss this piece of the equation though I think the piece of the equation though I think the piece of the equation though I think the thing I appreciate you calling out is I thing I appreciate you calling out is I thing I appreciate you calling out is I think there's a lot of lead pastors a think there's a lot of lead pastors a think there's a lot of lead pastors a lot of executive pastors folks that are lot of executive pastors folks that are lot of executive pastors folks that are leading in a church who are like yeah leading in a church who are like yeah leading in a church who are like yeah yeah groups groups they're really yeah groups groups they're really yeah groups groups they're really important but they really haven't bought important but they really haven't bought important but they really haven't bought in at a core level themselves right all

in at a core level themselves right all in at a core level themselves right all right you know they haven't rearranged right you know they haven't rearranged right you know they haven't rearranged their own lives or or they're doing their own lives or or they're doing their own lives or or they're doing they're kind of faking it like I see a they're kind of faking it like I see a they're kind of faking it like I see a lot of church leaders they'll do like oh lot of church leaders they'll do like oh lot of church leaders they'll do like oh I'm in a small group and what they I'm in a small group and what they I'm in a small group and what they really mean is they get together with really mean is they get together with really mean is they get together with other pastors on a Tuesday night lunch other pastors on a Tuesday night lunch other pastors on a Tuesday night lunch every week that's different than what every week that's different than what every week that's different than what you know what most people are you know what most people are you know what most people are experiencing and so I just want to experiencing and so I just want to experiencing and so I just want to highlight that there really is and and highlight that there really is and and highlight that there really is and and churches that are experiencing great churches that are experiencing great churches that are experiencing great kind of connections or growth happening kind of connections or growth happening kind of connections or growth happening in their groups often will come back to in their groups often will come back to in their groups often will come back to this and they'll say listen it doesn't this and they'll say listen it doesn't this and they'll say listen it doesn't start until the leadership is super start until the leadership is super start until the leadership is super committed so once you're committed I committed so once you're committed I committed so once you're committed I just highlighting that once you just highlighting that once you just highlighting that once you comitia what did you do what were some comitia what did you do what were some comitia what did you do what were some other kind of practical tactics that you other kind of practical tactics that you other kind of practical tactics that you did to try to get people more plugged in did to try to get people more plugged in did to try to get people more plugged in yeah well I kind of broke it down into yeah well I kind of broke it down into yeah well I kind of broke it down into three things to make it simple and and three things to make it simple and and three things to make it simple and and before I give them to you it really is before I give them to you it really is before I give them to you it really is simple and how almost I almost hesitate simple and how almost I almost hesitate simple and how almost I almost hesitate it to even say these because it is it is it to even say these because it is it is it to even say these because it is it is so simple right but but I know that for so simple right but but I know that for so simple right but but I know that for sure if it helps one person then it's sure if it helps one person then it's sure if it helps one person then it's worth it because the simplicity you worth it because the simplicity you worth it because the simplicity you can't get around the simplicity and I can't get around the simplicity and I can't get around the simplicity and I just think about like working out people just think about like working out people just think about like working out people will buy you know every supplement will buy you know every supplement will buy you know every supplement they'll try all the gimmicks but really they'll try all the gimmicks but really they'll try all the gimmicks but really it's kind of other is in calories out it's kind of other is in calories out it's kind of other is in calories out it's the best supplement is just workout it's the best supplement is just workout it's the best supplement is just workout you know what I mean and say yeah same you know what I mean and say yeah same you know what I mean and say yeah same thing with small groups the best way to thing with small groups the best way to thing with small groups the best way to make them work is to actually do them make them work is to actually do them make them work is to actually do them and so yeah the the way that I kind of and so yeah the the way that I kind of and so yeah the the way that I kind of categorized it is first of all top-down categorized it is first of all top-down categorized it is first of all top-down buy-in started with my dad and then with buy-in started with my dad and then with buy-in started with my dad and then with me and the other the other leaders that me and the other the other leaders that me and the other the other leaders that are right around my dad and we just said are right around my dad and we just said are right around my dad and we just said we have to lead small groups and and so we have to lead small groups and and so we have to lead small groups and and so we all started multiple small groups

we all started multiple small groups we all started multiple small groups ourselves and it wasn't just with staff ourselves and it wasn't just with staff ourselves and it wasn't just with staff or with our friends and Pastor Chris or with our friends and Pastor Chris or with our friends and Pastor Chris Hodges from Highlands gave us a great Hodges from Highlands gave us a great Hodges from Highlands gave us a great tip on what to do because as a as a tip on what to do because as a as a tip on what to do because as a as a pastor of the church you know one of the pastor of the church you know one of the pastor of the church you know one of the challenges is they'll say well if I open challenges is they'll say well if I open challenges is they'll say well if I open my group up to the public it'll be huge my group up to the public it'll be huge my group up to the public it'll be huge and everybody will want to join it and and everybody will want to join it and and everybody will want to join it and and so one of the things that we did was and so one of the things that we did was and so one of the things that we did was we said it will pick six of our friends we said it will pick six of our friends we said it will pick six of our friends and we'll have them each bring somebody and we'll have them each bring somebody and we'll have them each bring somebody into the small group so it is a little into the small group so it is a little into the small group so it is a little bit of a controlled environment but yet bit of a controlled environment but yet bit of a controlled environment but yet we had we had people that we didn't know we had we had people that we didn't know we had we had people that we didn't know in the group and it kind of lets us keep in the group and it kind of lets us keep in the group and it kind of lets us keep our ear to the ground and you know see our ear to the ground and you know see our ear to the ground and you know see people and what they're really going people and what they're really going people and what they're really going through it's not some bubble environment through it's not some bubble environment through it's not some bubble environment where we're just with our staff so we where we're just with our staff so we where we're just with our staff so we all started before we even started our all started before we even started our all started before we even started our big small group push that I'll talk big small group push that I'll talk big small group push that I'll talk about our leaders started small groups about our leaders started small groups about our leaders started small groups ourselves multiple small groups not on ourselves multiple small groups not on ourselves multiple small groups not on our 40th not on absolutely our work week our 40th not on absolutely our work week our 40th not on absolutely our work week and you know doing what we're asking and you know doing what we're asking and you know doing what we're asking what we were gonna be asking people to what we were gonna be asking people to what we were gonna be asking people to do tell me about the multiple small do tell me about the multiple small do tell me about the multiple small group thing I haven't heard that before group thing I haven't heard that before group thing I haven't heard that before so you guys actually you committed a sin so you guys actually you committed a sin so you guys actually you committed a sin here I'm gonna start a couple of these here I'm gonna start a couple of these here I'm gonna start a couple of these yes and you know the only reason because yes and you know the only reason because yes and you know the only reason because we wanted to go above and beyond we do we wanted to go above and beyond we do we wanted to go above and beyond we do it every other time we we attend all of it every other time we we attend all of it every other time we we attend all of our services across the weekend you know our services across the weekend you know our services across the weekend you know where we only expect people to work in where we only expect people to work in where we only expect people to work in one and worship and another one but one and worship and another one but one and worship and another one but we're in we're in we're in you know six or seven or whatever it is you know six or seven or whatever it is you know six or seven or whatever it is and so we if whatever energy we put into and so we if whatever energy we put into and so we if whatever energy we put into the weekend we realized we are not the weekend we realized we are not the weekend we realized we are not putting that energy in the small groups putting that energy in the small groups putting that energy in the small groups and if we want to put that same energy and if we want to put that same energy and if we want to put that same energy into leading the way and going above and into leading the way and going above and into leading the way and going above and beyond then we just need to lead a

beyond then we just need to lead a beyond then we just need to lead a couple of them and so that that's kind couple of them and so that that's kind couple of them and so that that's kind of where we landed that so yeah I led of where we landed that so yeah I led of where we landed that so yeah I led three to start out and it was hard you three to start out and it was hard you three to start out and it was hard you know I've got you know I've got a family know I've got you know I've got a family know I've got you know I've got a family and stuff and it was hard but we just at and stuff and it was hard but we just at and stuff and it was hard but we just at the end of the day it's like is this do the end of the day it's like is this do the end of the day it's like is this do we want small groups or not and so yeah we want small groups or not and so yeah we want small groups or not and so yeah that's how we started interesting so now that's how we started interesting so now that's how we started interesting so now what did the kind of the next step look what did the kind of the next step look what did the kind of the next step look so you probably see that's a huge so you probably see that's a huge so you probably see that's a huge commitment that even right there it's commitment that even right there it's commitment that even right there it's gonna multiply get a lot of people into gonna multiply get a lot of people into gonna multiply get a lot of people into groups in a short period time even in a groups in a short period time even in a groups in a short period time even in a large church you know if you take your large church you know if you take your large church you know if you take your staff your kind of core staff and did staff your kind of core staff and did staff your kind of core staff and did two or three groups of a piece that's two or three groups of a piece that's two or three groups of a piece that's good a lot of people plugged in right good a lot of people plugged in right good a lot of people plugged in right yeah and so that's how we started and we yeah and so that's how we started and we yeah and so that's how we started and we got our staff bought in and we taught it got our staff bought in and we taught it got our staff bought in and we taught it and you know we sold the vision of it and you know we sold the vision of it and you know we sold the vision of it and and and talked about everything that and and and talked about everything that and and and talked about everything that we just talked about how we really got we just talked about how we really got we just talked about how we really got to be bought in and then what we did was to be bought in and then what we did was to be bought in and then what we did was we did a church wide campaign which you we did a church wide campaign which you we did a church wide campaign which you know we've all done them we've all tried know we've all done them we've all tried know we've all done them we've all tried them and we had done them in the past them and we had done them in the past them and we had done them in the past but we had never done it with the staff but we had never done it with the staff but we had never done it with the staff buy-in and so first it was top-down buy-in and so first it was top-down buy-in and so first it was top-down buy-in and once we established that and buy-in and once we established that and buy-in and once we established that and got the leaders in love with got the leaders in love with got the leaders in love with relationships and in one quick plug that relationships and in one quick plug that relationships and in one quick plug that it's we're not in love with small groups it's we're not in love with small groups it's we're not in love with small groups were in love with the relationships that were in love with the relationships that were in love with the relationships that this Margaret is very good small groups this Margaret is very good small groups this Margaret is very good small groups of the vehicle just like we're not in of the vehicle just like we're not in of the vehicle just like we're not in love with our run sheets we're in love love with our run sheets we're in love love with our run sheets we're in love with people coming to church engaging with people coming to church engaging with people coming to church engaging with God and getting saved and and so with God and getting saved and and so with God and getting saved and and so we're not in love with smokers but we're we're not in love with smokers but we're we're not in love with smokers but we're in love with the concept of being in in love with the concept of being in in love with the concept of being in real relationship with real people and real relationship with real people and real relationship with real people and once our leaders got in love with that once our leaders got in love with that once our leaders got in love with that we did a church wide campaign where we we did a church wide campaign where we we did a church wide campaign where we cast vision for everybody in the church cast vision for everybody in the church cast vision for everybody in the church to get in a small group and here's what to get in a small group and here's what to get in a small group and here's what we did we made it really simple we we did we made it really simple we we did we made it really simple we wanted to make it as easy as we could wanted to make it as easy as we could wanted to make it as easy as we could for the end user so we did a we did a

for the end user so we did a we did a for the end user so we did a we did a six-week curriculum which usually our six-week curriculum which usually our six-week curriculum which usually our semesters are gonna be 12 weeks long but semesters are gonna be 12 weeks long but semesters are gonna be 12 weeks long but we did a six-week curriculum put the we did a six-week curriculum put the we did a six-week curriculum put the whole church you know on the same whole church you know on the same whole church you know on the same curriculum and we preached on it and so curriculum and we preached on it and so curriculum and we preached on it and so we it almost made people feel like they we it almost made people feel like they we it almost made people feel like they were left out if they weren't on board were left out if they weren't on board were left out if they weren't on board with this and so we we trained we with this and so we we trained we with this and so we we trained we started it out by saying hey if you'd started it out by saying hey if you'd started it out by saying hey if you'd host a group this is so easy you just host a group this is so easy you just host a group this is so easy you just we're gonna give you a video to watch on we're gonna give you a video to watch on we're gonna give you a video to watch on our on our church app and by DVD just our on our church app and by DVD just our on our church app and by DVD just you can watch it anywhere in a coffee you can watch it anywhere in a coffee you can watch it anywhere in a coffee shop all you have to do is show the shop all you have to do is show the shop all you have to do is show the video and lead the discussion questions video and lead the discussion questions video and lead the discussion questions you don't have to pastor people you you don't have to pastor people you you don't have to pastor people you don't have to counsel people you don't don't have to counsel people you don't don't have to counsel people you don't have to have the answers and so we let a have to have the answers and so we let a have to have the answers and so we let a few trainings and we got 250 people to few trainings and we got 250 people to few trainings and we got 250 people to commit to be hosts and so it's just a commit to be hosts and so it's just a commit to be hosts and so it's just a bite-sized thing you know six weeks you bite-sized thing you know six weeks you bite-sized thing you know six weeks you never have to do it again if you don't never have to do it again if you don't never have to do it again if you don't like and and so and then we did a like and and so and then we did a like and and so and then we did a six-week series called 40 days of change six-week series called 40 days of change six-week series called 40 days of change where we we went six weeks everybody where we we went six weeks everybody where we we went six weeks everybody picked an area of their life that they picked an area of their life that they picked an area of their life that they want to change we preached on it we had want to change we preached on it we had want to change we preached on it we had videos in the groups we had discussion videos in the groups we had discussion videos in the groups we had discussion questions it was very bite-size and it questions it was very bite-size and it questions it was very bite-size and it got everybody on board and yeah we had got everybody on board and yeah we had got everybody on board and yeah we had 250 small groups which for us was huge 250 small groups which for us was huge 250 small groups which for us was huge we had only ever had like a hundred and we had only ever had like a hundred and we had only ever had like a hundred and something at our Mac so yeah that was something at our Mac so yeah that was something at our Mac so yeah that was kind of that second that second layer no kind of that second that second layer no kind of that second that second layer no that's good I just to highlight that's good I just to highlight that's good I just to highlight underline something you're saying there underline something you're saying there underline something you're saying there I think I love that you did was you made I think I love that you did was you made I think I love that you did was you made it I think sometimes we ask people to it I think sometimes we ask people to it I think sometimes we ask people to commit to groups and it to them it commit to groups and it to them it commit to groups and it to them it sounds like I'm gonna be in someone's sounds like I'm gonna be in someone's sounds like I'm gonna be in someone's house for the next twenty five years and house for the next twenty five years and house for the next twenty five years and what if I don't like them and they and a what if I don't like them and they and a what if I don't like them and they and a bunch of that is irrational fear but bunch of that is irrational fear but bunch of that is irrational fear but it's in their head it's a real fear it's it's in their head it's a real fear it's it's in their head it's a real fear it's not it's not right up that's what

not it's not right up that's what not it's not right up that's what they're thinking and I love that you they're thinking and I love that you they're thinking and I love that you made it you know you you you made it you made it you know you you you made it you made it you know you you you made it you know short it's it's time-bound it's know short it's it's time-bound it's know short it's it's time-bound it's forty days it's and also using the fire forty days it's and also using the fire forty days it's and also using the fire power of the weekend to really point at power of the weekend to really point at power of the weekend to really point at that and say hey this is so important that and say hey this is so important that and say hey this is so important that's that's great that's a great it's that's that's great that's a great it's that's that's great that's a great it's you know simple tip to pick up the forty you know simple tip to pick up the forty you know simple tip to pick up the forty days was that it was that a campaign days was that it was that a campaign days was that it was that a campaign like something you took off the shelf or like something you took off the shelf or like something you took off the shelf or was that a you know kind of a resource was that a you know kind of a resource was that a you know kind of a resource used for someone else or did you guys used for someone else or did you guys used for someone else or did you guys develop that yourself a little bit of develop that yourself a little bit of develop that yourself a little bit of both we I think we got the idea from both we I think we got the idea from both we I think we got the idea from Rick Warren or somebody the 40 days Rick Warren or somebody the 40 days Rick Warren or somebody the 40 days thing and then and then developed our thing and then and then developed our thing and then and then developed our own we built it around all six weeks own we built it around all six weeks own we built it around all six weeks before the message or testimony you know before the message or testimony you know before the message or testimony you know somebody that had a big change in their somebody that had a big change in their somebody that had a big change in their life and then we'd preach on it and then life and then we'd preach on it and then life and then we'd preach on it and then we'd run out the discussion questions we'd run out the discussion questions we'd run out the discussion questions around that topic and so we did it around that topic and so we did it around that topic and so we did it ourselves but the idea was not original ourselves but the idea was not original ourselves but the idea was not original no no but we did develop our own our own no no but we did develop our own our own no no but we did develop our own our own curriculum good so then what happened on curriculum good so then what happened on curriculum good so then what happened on kind of the the the so you had you know kind of the the the so you had you know kind of the the the so you had you know obviously jumped a bunch of people in obviously jumped a bunch of people in obviously jumped a bunch of people in your group what you know what was kind your group what you know what was kind your group what you know what was kind of that experience like and then how did of that experience like and then how did of that experience like and then how did you follow that up yeah so just backing you follow that up yeah so just backing you follow that up yeah so just backing up a little bit before we move forward up a little bit before we move forward up a little bit before we move forward one of the things we did was we took one of the things we did was we took one of the things we did was we took away all the excuses in our in our away all the excuses in our in our away all the excuses in our in our messages when we would preach we ignore messages when we would preach we ignore messages when we would preach we ignore just authentically everything that just authentically everything that just authentically everything that somebody would be thinking and I think somebody would be thinking and I think somebody would be thinking and I think Furtick Steven Furtick goes it's great Furtick Steven Furtick goes it's great Furtick Steven Furtick goes it's great with their baptisms is you just slowly with their baptisms is you just slowly with their baptisms is you just slowly take away every excuse and so we would take away every excuse and so we would take away every excuse and so we would say if you don't like the group ditch it say if you don't like the group ditch it say if you don't like the group ditch it and find a new and you know try you can and find a new and you know try you can and find a new and you know try you can try six different groups or whatever and try six different groups or whatever and try six different groups or whatever and so we just we would joke about it we so we just we would joke about it we so we just we would joke about it we would bring humor into it to kind of would bring humor into it to kind of would bring humor into it to kind of break down those walls and and make it

break down those walls and and make it break down those walls and and make it really easy for people to join in so really easy for people to join in so really easy for people to join in so that's what we would do and and we had that's what we would do and and we had that's what we would do and and we had people joining even in like the four and people joining even in like the four and people joining even in like the four and the five week mark is obviously true so the five week mark is obviously true so the five week mark is obviously true so don't come to church every Sunday so don't come to church every Sunday so don't come to church every Sunday so they'd come in on week three or four and they'd come in on week three or four and they'd come in on week three or four and they had never heard of it so people they had never heard of it so people they had never heard of it so people were jumping in them we made it really were jumping in them we made it really were jumping in them we made it really again we made it easy we wouldn't want again we made it easy we wouldn't want again we made it easy we wouldn't want our small groups to always be that our small groups to always be that our small groups to always be that shallow so to speak but for the front shallow so to speak but for the front shallow so to speak but for the front door this was very intentional we were door this was very intentional we were door this was very intentional we were relaunching a whole culture you know and relaunching a whole culture you know and relaunching a whole culture you know and so we did we made it easy on purpose we so we did we made it easy on purpose we so we did we made it easy on purpose we were throwing out really really easy were throwing out really really easy were throwing out really really easy simple handles for people to grab one simple handles for people to grab one simple handles for people to grab one too so then then we the way that we too so then then we the way that we too so then then we the way that we transitioned is with those 250 hosts we transitioned is with those 250 hosts we transitioned is with those 250 hosts we were very intentional with them we were were very intentional with them we were were very intentional with them we were upfront again the transparency I think upfront again the transparency I think upfront again the transparency I think is so key because because people latch is so key because because people latch is so key because because people latch on to transparency they see right on to transparency they see right on to transparency they see right through you know the bait-and-switch through you know the bait-and-switch through you know the bait-and-switch thing so we told them we said hey we're thing so we told them we said hey we're thing so we told them we said hey we're not bait-and-switch ting you not bait-and-switch ting you not bait-and-switch ting you we're not tricking you but now that you we're not tricking you but now that you we're not tricking you but now that you have lead and we walked them through it have lead and we walked them through it have lead and we walked them through it and we had planned this out now that you and we had planned this out now that you and we had planned this out now that you have lead what did you like about it have lead what did you like about it have lead what did you like about it would you ever consider leading again would you ever consider leading again would you ever consider leading again and what we found was most people want and what we found was most people want and what we found was most people want to continue leading small groups and so to continue leading small groups and so to continue leading small groups and so then we kind of up trained them on how a then we kind of up trained them on how a then we kind of up trained them on how a normal small group will work and we've normal small group will work and we've normal small group will work and we've got a whole bunch of people on board got a whole bunch of people on board got a whole bunch of people on board we're ready to run a real small group so we're ready to run a real small group so we're ready to run a real small group so to speak in the next semester and so to speak in the next semester and so to speak in the next semester and so that was our intentionality there to that was our intentionality there to that was our intentionality there to make this something that can be make this something that can be make this something that can be sustained okay yeah the question I was sustained okay yeah the question I was sustained okay yeah the question I was gonna ask was what time of year was this gonna ask was what time of year was this gonna ask was what time of year was this at and then how does that how did it at and then how does that how did it at and then how does that how did it kind of hit that fit the normal rhythm kind of hit that fit the normal rhythm kind of hit that fit the normal rhythm of your church because I think sometimes of your church because I think sometimes of your church because I think sometimes getting the timing right is critical on

getting the timing right is critical on getting the timing right is critical on this kind of thing yeah and this was this kind of thing yeah and this was this kind of thing yeah and this was just the fall this was the the simple just the fall this was the the simple just the fall this was the the simple fall semester yeah and and so like I fall semester yeah and and so like I fall semester yeah and and so like I said this this process of getting the said this this process of getting the said this this process of getting the top down by and started like a year ago top down by and started like a year ago top down by and started like a year ago but this semester is just just now but this semester is just just now but this semester is just just now finished we've just now finished this finished we've just now finished this finished we've just now finished this and so it was a fall semester when and so it was a fall semester when and so it was a fall semester when everybody's getting back in school and everybody's getting back in school and everybody's getting back in school and so pretty typical so pretty typical so pretty typical and and so what we do is and this is and and so what we do is and this is and and so what we do is and this is completely Church of the Highlands so if completely Church of the Highlands so if completely Church of the Highlands so if anybody's watching this is completely anybody's watching this is completely anybody's watching this is completely ripped off from them tell them we tell ripped off from them tell them we tell ripped off from them tell them we tell all of our leaders break the rule fools all of our leaders break the rule fools all of our leaders break the rule fools run run a small group under the table run run a small group under the table run run a small group under the table you know we're not in semester but if you know we're not in semester but if you know we're not in semester but if you have chemistry that the last thing you have chemistry that the last thing you have chemistry that the last thing we want to do is break up chemistry we want to do is break up chemistry we want to do is break up chemistry we're not trying to control people's we're not trying to control people's we're not trying to control people's schedule or whatever but we definitely schedule or whatever but we definitely schedule or whatever but we definitely have on-ramps at the beginning of have on-ramps at the beginning of have on-ramps at the beginning of semesters so that people feel like oh I semesters so that people feel like oh I semesters so that people feel like oh I can jump one because this is a new can jump one because this is a new can jump one because this is a new semester and I think you've had pasture semester and I think you've had pasture semester and I think you've had pasture Lane strands on here to talk about that Lane strands on here to talk about that Lane strands on here to talk about that whole free market system and so we have whole free market system and so we have whole free market system and so we have that but we definitely encourage and so that but we definitely encourage and so that but we definitely encourage and so a lot of our 40 days of change small a lot of our 40 days of change small a lot of our 40 days of change small groups are continuing right on through groups are continuing right on through groups are continuing right on through the holidays people are planning the holidays people are planning the holidays people are planning Christmas parties and so that's all Christmas parties and so that's all Christmas parties and so that's all happening I don't even know if I happening I don't even know if I happening I don't even know if I answered your question that's good no I answered your question that's good no I answered your question that's good no I wanted to get a sense of the you know wanted to get a sense of the you know wanted to get a sense of the you know the timing and all that that's that's the timing and all that that's that's the timing and all that that's that's right that's that's really good now so right that's that's really good now so right that's that's really good now so far the kind of so we've talked about far the kind of so we've talked about far the kind of so we've talked about the free market system I'd encourage the free market system I'd encourage the free market system I'd encourage people to go back and listen to lanes people to go back and listen to lanes people to go back and listen to lanes interview is great how important do you interview is great how important do you interview is great how important do you think that is or has been for getting think that is or has been for getting think that is or has been for getting people plugged in you know a much more people plugged in you know a much more people plugged in you know a much more kind of open approach rather than a you kind of open approach rather than a you kind of open approach rather than a you know super defined approach I hope that know super defined approach I hope that know super defined approach I hope that this can really help people because what this can really help people because what this can really help people because what what church of the Hyland's taught us

what church of the Hyland's taught us what church of the Hyland's taught us was so valuable but there's something was so valuable but there's something was so valuable but there's something that didn't work about it and and here's that didn't work about it and and here's that didn't work about it and and here's what it didn't work for us we tried to what it didn't work for us we tried to what it didn't work for us we tried to put it in place a few years ago just put it in place a few years ago just put it in place a few years ago just free market groups and we had our hubs free market groups and we had our hubs free market groups and we had our hubs you know the men's the women's the you know the men's the women's the you know the men's the women's the marriage the students all the hubs in marriage the students all the hubs in marriage the students all the hubs in place but when we when we just put the place but when we when we just put the place but when we when we just put the free-market system out there without free-market system out there without free-market system out there without gaining the momentum that we gained from gaining the momentum that we gained from gaining the momentum that we gained from 40 days of change the problem was we had 40 days of change the problem was we had 40 days of change the problem was we had a lot of random groups so here's what a lot of random groups so here's what a lot of random groups so here's what our here's what our small group rosters our here's what our small group rosters our here's what our small group rosters would look like when we would launch a would look like when we would launch a would look like when we would launch a semester a basketball group on Friday semester a basketball group on Friday semester a basketball group on Friday night a women's you know sewing group on night a women's you know sewing group on night a women's you know sewing group on Thursday morning and they're all very Thursday morning and they're all very Thursday morning and they're all very specific and and and it was hard for specific and and and it was hard for specific and and and it was hard for people the average person who said hey I people the average person who said hey I people the average person who said hey I just got saved I want to learn more just got saved I want to learn more just got saved I want to learn more about the Bible and they've they've got about the Bible and they've they've got about the Bible and they've they've got to either go hiking or ride motorcycles to either go hiking or ride motorcycles to either go hiking or ride motorcycles to get in relationship and so it didn't to get in relationship and so it didn't to get in relationship and so it didn't really take off at first but here's what really take off at first but here's what really take off at first but here's what has really worked is now what's has really worked is now what's has really worked is now what's happening is a lot of our 40 days of happening is a lot of our 40 days of happening is a lot of our 40 days of change groups they're just going to lead change groups they're just going to lead change groups they're just going to lead the typical small group with like a the typical small group with like a the typical small group with like a curriculum or a Bible study but some of curriculum or a Bible study but some of curriculum or a Bible study but some of them have this them have this them have this we're gonna turn this into you know a we're gonna turn this into you know a we're gonna turn this into you know a recreational group or an outdoor group recreational group or an outdoor group recreational group or an outdoor group and what pastor Lane will teach is and and what pastor Lane will teach is and and what pastor Lane will teach is and what he what he taught in his session is what he what he taught in his session is what he what he taught in his session is the Hubbs act as like the the main the Hubbs act as like the the main the Hubbs act as like the the main stores in a mall and then all these stores in a mall and then all these stores in a mall and then all these other recreational groups and all these other recreational groups and all these other recreational groups and all these other groups act as like the kiosks and other groups act as like the kiosks and other groups act as like the kiosks and what we didn't have was we didn't have what we didn't have was we didn't have what we didn't have was we didn't have the hubs we didn't have those there's the hubs we didn't have those there's the hubs we didn't have those there's really strong groups that people could really strong groups that people could really strong groups that people could just join and the other ones were there just join and the other ones were there just join and the other ones were there as kind of add-ons our main groups were

as kind of add-ons our main groups were as kind of add-ons our main groups were all just random and it didn't work and all just random and it didn't work and all just random and it didn't work and so what we've got now is we've got a so what we've got now is we've got a so what we've got now is we've got a strong group of people four men leading strong group of people four men leading strong group of people four men leading men's groups strong group of people men's groups strong group of people men's groups strong group of people eating women's group because we have 250 eating women's group because we have 250 eating women's group because we have 250 to choose from and and then we've got to choose from and and then we've got to choose from and and then we've got everything else added on and so now it's everything else added on and so now it's everything else added on and so now it's clicked for us the free market works clicked for us the free market works clicked for us the free market works because we establish the culture first because we establish the culture first because we establish the culture first yeah that's good that's a good highlight yeah that's good that's a good highlight yeah that's good that's a good highlight I think that's a good nuance on the free I think that's a good nuance on the free I think that's a good nuance on the free market system and I think there can be a market system and I think there can be a market system and I think there can be a criticism of the free-market approaches criticism of the free-market approaches criticism of the free-market approaches there has to be a certain kind of there has to be a certain kind of there has to be a certain kind of critical mass of groups right there has critical mass of groups right there has critical mass of groups right there has to be a number of groups ready to go and to be a number of groups ready to go and to be a number of groups ready to go and so you kind of have to jumpstart it with so you kind of have to jumpstart it with so you kind of have to jumpstart it with something like what you know what you've something like what you know what you've something like what you know what you've done here this has been this has been done here this has been this has been done here this has been this has been great great great anything else you want to share with anything else you want to share with anything else you want to share with folks before we move on to the rest of folks before we move on to the rest of folks before we move on to the rest of our episode you know when we talked our episode you know when we talked our episode you know when we talked about hubs because I know the growing about hubs because I know the growing about hubs because I know the growing network and and that whole small group network and and that whole small group network and and that whole small group system is so popular right now and so system is so popular right now and so system is so popular right now and so for anybody that's listening we really for anybody that's listening we really for anybody that's listening we really made sure that the four hubs that we made sure that the four hubs that we made sure that the four hubs that we kind of considered the the basic ones as kind of considered the the basic ones as kind of considered the the basic ones as the men's the women's the marriage and the men's the women's the marriage and the men's the women's the marriage and the students and that's where we wanted the students and that's where we wanted the students and that's where we wanted to make sure we got our critical mass to make sure we got our critical mass to make sure we got our critical mass and then you know we've got the and then you know we've got the and then you know we've got the financial we've got the the prayer we've financial we've got the the prayer we've financial we've got the the prayer we've got the outreach but those are got the outreach but those are got the outreach but those are definitely like the additions we didn't definitely like the additions we didn't definitely like the additions we didn't get it can be like you can feel like get it can be like you can feel like get it can be like you can feel like you're in quicksand if you try to get you're in quicksand if you try to get you're in quicksand if you try to get eight hubs up and going and so we just eight hubs up and going and so we just eight hubs up and going and so we just we were like let's get strong men's we were like let's get strong men's we were like let's get strong men's groups groups groups let's get strong women's groups strong let's get strong women's groups strong let's get strong women's groups strong marriage groups and the teenager the marriage groups and the teenager the marriage groups and the teenager the student groups let's let's get them student groups let's let's get them student groups let's let's get them going and once we get those the other going and once we get those the other going and once we get those the other ones get at it in and it's easy so it's ones get at it in and it's easy so it's ones get at it in and it's easy so it's kind of like you know taking it by steps kind of like you know taking it by steps kind of like you know taking it by steps top-down buying some type of big front

top-down buying some type of big front top-down buying some type of big front door that's really easy for people that door that's really easy for people that door that's really easy for people that they can get off if they don't like it they can get off if they don't like it they can get off if they don't like it and then establish the free market and then establish the free market and then establish the free market system but starting with those main four system but starting with those main four system but starting with those main four hubs and then having the other four hubs hubs and then having the other four hubs hubs and then having the other four hubs in that and that's what's really quick in that and that's what's really quick in that and that's what's really quick for us finally this is the uncie Maneri for us finally this is the uncie Maneri for us finally this is the uncie Maneri podcast podcast podcast you wish they taught in seminary we're you wish they taught in seminary we're you wish they taught in seminary we're gonna jump into the lightning around gonna jump into the lightning around gonna jump into the lightning around that part of the episode where we ask that part of the episode where we ask that part of the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody that's on similar questions of everybody that's on similar questions of everybody that's on the show super honored to have Josh the show super honored to have Josh the show super honored to have Josh Baird with us today from the Life Church Baird with us today from the Life Church Baird with us today from the Life Church great Church seeing you know some really great Church seeing you know some really great Church seeing you know some really cool stuff going on Josh I'm so glad cool stuff going on Josh I'm so glad cool stuff going on Josh I'm so glad you're on the show today what's an you're on the show today what's an you're on the show today what's an online resource that you've been using online resource that you've been using online resource that you've been using these days that's been helping you we these days that's been helping you we these days that's been helping you we speaking of small groups small groups speaking of small groups small groups speaking of small groups small groups dot Church is kind of an unheard of it's dot Church is kind of an unheard of it's dot Church is kind of an unheard of it's just a brand new site and it's it's a just a brand new site and it's it's a just a brand new site and it's it's a free resource and it's an online small free resource and it's an online small free resource and it's an online small group directory and it's been amazing group directory and it's been amazing group directory and it's been amazing we've used it throughout the 40 days of we've used it throughout the 40 days of we've used it throughout the 40 days of change and it's really easy for people change and it's really easy for people change and it's really easy for people to jump on and I know every a lot of to jump on and I know every a lot of to jump on and I know every a lot of people use fellowship 1 and church people use fellowship 1 and church people use fellowship 1 and church community builder which is what we use community builder which is what we use community builder which is what we use CCB and we've got all of the big CCB and we've got all of the big CCB and we've got all of the big databases but they're usually hard for databases but they're usually hard for databases but they're usually hard for the the end user Church attender who's the the end user Church attender who's the the end user Church attender who's just you know wanting to join a group just you know wanting to join a group just you know wanting to join a group it's it's kind of hard to do the logins it's it's kind of hard to do the logins it's it's kind of hard to do the logins and all that it's a clunky a lot of and all that it's a clunky a lot of and all that it's a clunky a lot of times for them so small groups dot times for them so small groups dot times for them so small groups dot Church very easy a really simple Church very easy a really simple Church very easy a really simple interface to use and it worked really interface to use and it worked really interface to use and it worked really well for us with small groups or that well for us with small groups or that well for us with small groups or that that was a the main one that I wanted to that was a the main one that I wanted to that was a the main one that I wanted to talk about we used Trumpy at Bom Bom talk about we used Trumpy at Bom Bom talk about we used Trumpy at Bom Bom Planning Center all of that but a lot of Planning Center all of that but a lot of Planning Center all of that but a lot of people know about those yeah nice very people know about those yeah nice very people know about those yeah nice very cool that's great small groups are cool that's great small groups are cool that's great small groups are churches to check it out I was I've churches to check it out I was I've churches to check it out I was I've never heard of it before I was just

never heard of it before I was just never heard of it before I was just looking at it looks at right it looks looking at it looks at right it looks looking at it looks at right it looks like a yeah a great tool for sure that's like a yeah a great tool for sure that's like a yeah a great tool for sure that's a book you've read in the last I don't a book you've read in the last I don't a book you've read in the last I don't know maybe six months to a year that's know maybe six months to a year that's know maybe six months to a year that's had an impact on your your leadership had an impact on your your leadership had an impact on your your leadership and your thinking yeah I'm actually just and your thinking yeah I'm actually just and your thinking yeah I'm actually just finishing a book and this is the book finishing a book and this is the book finishing a book and this is the book that I'll shout out because it's that I'll shout out because it's that I'll shout out because it's absolutely life-changing it's rock to me absolutely life-changing it's rock to me absolutely life-changing it's rock to me is leadership and self-deception by the is leadership and self-deception by the is leadership and self-deception by the Harbinger Institute absolutely rocked me Harbinger Institute absolutely rocked me Harbinger Institute absolutely rocked me I don't know if you checked it out yeah I don't know if you checked it out yeah I don't know if you checked it out yeah I mean it sounds kind of scary yeah I mean it sounds kind of scary yeah I mean it sounds kind of scary yeah sounds kind of like a spooky book to sounds kind of like a spooky book to sounds kind of like a spooky book to read but uh but it's it's been an read but uh but it's it's been an read but uh but it's it's been an incredible book not a Christian book but incredible book not a Christian book but incredible book not a Christian book but obviously the Christian principles obviously the Christian principles obviously the Christian principles throughout and that's been a really good throughout and that's been a really good throughout and that's been a really good essentialism I think Greg McKeown talked essentialism I think Greg McKeown talked essentialism I think Greg McKeown talked like Ted those are those are some great like Ted those are those are some great like Ted those are those are some great books but leadership and self-deception books but leadership and self-deception books but leadership and self-deception that's my number one recommendation that's my number one recommendation that's my number one recommendation right now nice very cool what's another right now nice very cool what's another right now nice very cool what's another ministry that you've you know did you ministry that you've you know did you ministry that you've you know did you look at inspire of obviously Church of look at inspire of obviously Church of look at inspire of obviously Church of the Highlands you've you know you talked the Highlands you've you know you talked the Highlands you've you know you talked about are there any others out there about are there any others out there about are there any others out there yeah I think the ones that a lot of yeah I think the ones that a lot of yeah I think the ones that a lot of people look people look people look elevation Church we look at we kind of elevation Church we look at we kind of elevation Church we look at we kind of pull different things from different pull different things from different pull different things from different people just like you just like as a people just like you just like as a people just like you just like as a person you want more than one mentor for person you want more than one mentor for person you want more than one mentor for different reasons yeah so Elevation different reasons yeah so Elevation different reasons yeah so Elevation Church church on the move out in Tulsa Church church on the move out in Tulsa Church church on the move out in Tulsa and you know Life Church like formerly and you know Life Church like formerly and you know Life Church like formerly Life Church TV and we look at those Life Church TV and we look at those Life Church TV and we look at those churches mainly and then a couple churches mainly and then a couple churches mainly and then a couple churches locally we also like to look at churches locally we also like to look at churches locally we also like to look at churches that are smaller than us churches that are smaller than us churches that are smaller than us because that does they're obviously because that does they're obviously because that does they're obviously probably doing things better than us so probably doing things better than us so probably doing things better than us so we have a couple here locally that we we have a couple here locally that we we have a couple here locally that we are in relationship with and we steal are in relationship with and we steal are in relationship with and we steal from and exchange ideas with and stuff from and exchange ideas with and stuff from and exchange ideas with and stuff so yeah that's cool that's very cool if

so yeah that's cool that's very cool if so yeah that's cool that's very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive who would you want to get that yes alive who would you want to get that yes alive who would you want to get that yes and why Craig Rochelle no doubt about and why Craig Rochelle no doubt about and why Craig Rochelle no doubt about how to have a girl show why because he's how to have a girl show why because he's how to have a girl show why because he's Craig Rochelle you know I just listened Craig Rochelle you know I just listened Craig Rochelle you know I just listened to his podcast and he's everything he to his podcast and he's everything he to his podcast and he's everything he says it's just like gold so that I would says it's just like gold so that I would says it's just like gold so that I would love to be with him nice well I'll think love to be with him nice well I'll think love to be with him nice well I'll think I appreciate you be on the show today I I appreciate you be on the show today I I appreciate you be on the show today I know leading in a growing church like know leading in a growing church like know leading in a growing church like yours is it's difficult you've got a lot yours is it's difficult you've got a lot yours is it's difficult you've got a lot going on what do you do for fun when you going on what do you do for fun when you going on what do you do for fun when you just want to you know kind of kick back just want to you know kind of kick back just want to you know kind of kick back and relax yeah my wife and I joked and relax yeah my wife and I joked and relax yeah my wife and I joked because we say our social life has hit because we say our social life has hit because we say our social life has hit an all-time low we have four kids that an all-time low we have four kids that an all-time low we have four kids that are six and under oh my goodness so a are six and under oh my goodness so a are six and under oh my goodness so a great day for us is when we can get them great day for us is when we can get them great day for us is when we can get them all in bed by eight o'clock eight all in bed by eight o'clock eight all in bed by eight o'clock eight o'clock or so and watch a movie now o'clock or so and watch a movie now o'clock or so and watch a movie now watching Netflix that's that's a great watching Netflix that's that's a great watching Netflix that's that's a great night for us babe no you know just we've night for us babe no you know just we've night for us babe no you know just we've got the kids and it's a blast and and got the kids and it's a blast and and got the kids and it's a blast and and hard time to keep up with them I I'm a hard time to keep up with them I I'm a hard time to keep up with them I I'm a former football player so I like sports former football player so I like sports former football player so I like sports I'm competitive I like to golf but I I'm competitive I like to golf but I I'm competitive I like to golf but I usually break all of my clubs all joking usually break all of my clubs all joking usually break all of my clubs all joking aside I've broke a couple golf clubs but aside I've broke a couple golf clubs but aside I've broke a couple golf clubs but yeah I just mainly sports and and dating yeah I just mainly sports and and dating yeah I just mainly sports and and dating my wife nice that's great thank you my wife nice that's great thank you my wife nice that's great thank you thank you so much for being on the show thank you so much for being on the show thank you so much for being on the show today people want to get in touch with today people want to get in touch with today people want to get in touch with you or with the church what's the best you or with the church what's the best you or with the church what's the best way for them to do that our website is way for them to do that our website is way for them to do that our website is really easy it's we love church comm and really easy it's we love church comm and really easy it's we love church comm and so my email is Josh Jos a chat we love so my email is Josh Jos a chat we love so my email is Josh Jos a chat we love Church comm that's the easiest way and Church comm that's the easiest way and Church comm that's the easiest way and yeah really appreciate it thank you so yeah really appreciate it thank you so yeah really appreciate it thank you so much for being on the show today I

much for being on the show today I much for being on the show today I appreciate you having me it was an honor appreciate you having me it was an honor appreciate you having me it was an honor q for tuning in to this week's unsung re q for tuning in to this week's unsung re q for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and can sign up at unsummon re calm and we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at out the show notes for this episode at unset Minari calm it includes links to unset Minari calm it includes links to unset Minari calm it includes links to what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more what we talked about today and more leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from leave a comment we'd love to hear from you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop you did you enjoy today's episode drop by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks by iTunes and leave a review thanks again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's again for tuning in to this week's unsung re podcast join us next week when unsung re podcast join us next week when unsung re podcast join us next week when we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they we'll learn more stuff we wish they taught in seminary taught in seminary taught in seminary [Music]