Donnie Griggs on Vibrant Ministry in Small Towns

today's on seminary resources brought to today's on seminary resources brought to you by aware three at aware three their you by aware three at aware three their you by aware three at aware three their goal is to help your church build goal is to help your church build goal is to help your church build connections using mobile technology they connections using mobile technology they connections using mobile technology they help you extend church beyond Sunday help you extend church beyond Sunday help you extend church beyond Sunday mornings by putting it in the palm of mornings by putting it in the palm of mornings by putting it in the palm of everyone's and learn more about how a everyone's and learn more about how a everyone's and learn more about how a custom mobile app can help you improve custom mobile app can help you improve custom mobile app can help you improve engagement communication and generosity engagement communication and generosity engagement communication and generosity at at at WWE we're three that's the number three WWE we're three that's the number three WWE we're three that's the number three calm calm calm welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are welcome to the uncie Maneri podcast are you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help you looking for practical ministry help to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster to drive your ministry further faster have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your have a sinking feeling that your ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for ministry training didn't prepare you for the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join the real world hey you're not alone join thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff thousands of others in pursuit of stuff that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary that we wish they had taught in seminary buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with buckle up and let's get started with this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast this week's on seminary podcast podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here podcast my name is rich the host here and i am honored that you would take and i am honored that you would take and i am honored that you would take some time out to listen this week you're some time out to listen this week you're some time out to listen this week you're gonna love today's conversation we've gonna love today's conversation we've gonna love today's conversation we've got Donnie Griggs from one Harbor Church got Donnie Griggs from one Harbor Church got Donnie Griggs from one Harbor Church in Morehead City this is gonna be a in Morehead City this is gonna be a in Morehead City this is gonna be a great conversation I hope you lean in great conversation I hope you lean in great conversation I hope you lean in and listen because there's going to be and listen because there's going to be and listen because there's going to be some really good stuff some good some really good stuff some good some really good stuff some good takeaways here for a lot of people that takeaways here for a lot of people that takeaways here for a lot of people that are listening in so Donnie welcome to are listening in so Donnie welcome to are listening in so Donnie welcome to the show hey thanks so much for having the show hey thanks so much for having the show hey thanks so much for having me man I wonder if you could tell us a me man I wonder if you could tell us a me man I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about one Harbor Church give little bit about one Harbor Church give little bit about one Harbor Church give us a sense of your ministry sure so we us a sense of your ministry sure so we us a sense of your ministry sure so we planted one Harbor going on eight years planted one Harbor going on eight years planted one Harbor going on eight years ago and in Morehead City which is a tiny ago and in Morehead City which is a tiny ago and in Morehead City which is a tiny town about 9,000 folks on the coast of town about 9,000 folks on the coast of town about 9,000 folks on the coast of North Carolina it's actually where I was North Carolina it's actually where I was North Carolina it's actually where I was born and raised oh yeah and so we born and raised oh yeah and so we born and raised oh yeah and so we planted there and you know God just

planted there and you know God just planted there and you know God just added you know tons and tons of people added you know tons and tons of people added you know tons and tons of people and it grew pretty quick and and then we and it grew pretty quick and and then we and it grew pretty quick and and then we ended up going multi-site about three or ended up going multi-site about three or ended up going multi-site about three or four years ago started with one other four years ago started with one other four years ago started with one other location now we're two other locations location now we're two other locations location now we're two other locations and we're about to start a third you and we're about to start a third you and we're about to start a third you know additional locations so we've kind know additional locations so we've kind know additional locations so we've kind of now just sort of stepped back and of now just sort of stepped back and of now just sort of stepped back and gone man if we want to effectively reach gone man if we want to effectively reach gone man if we want to effectively reach our region we have to keep multiplying our region we have to keep multiplying our region we have to keep multiplying so yeah it's just it's busy it's crazy so yeah it's just it's busy it's crazy so yeah it's just it's busy it's crazy but it's a lot of fun we're good now the but it's a lot of fun we're good now the but it's a lot of fun we're good now the thing I'm interested in the kind of thing I'm interested in the kind of thing I'm interested in the kind of leaning in and hearing you know I think leaning in and hearing you know I think leaning in and hearing you know I think a lot of thinking a lot of kind of a lot of thinking a lot of kind of a lot of thinking a lot of kind of leadership comes out from church leaders leadership comes out from church leaders leadership comes out from church leaders that are in suburban areas or in you that are in suburban areas or in you that are in suburban areas or in you know urban contexts large with you know know urban contexts large with you know know urban contexts large with you know hundreds of thousands of people I love hundreds of thousands of people I love hundreds of thousands of people I love that you know you started with hey you that you know you started with hey you that you know you started with hey you know what Herbert churches nine thousand know what Herbert churches nine thousand know what Herbert churches nine thousand people either Moorhead cities nine people either Moorhead cities nine people either Moorhead cities nine thousand so you said you know yeah thousand so you said you know yeah thousand so you said you know yeah not a huge not a huge community I'd love not a huge not a huge community I'd love not a huge not a huge community I'd love to hear about that let's talk about to hear about that let's talk about to hear about that let's talk about small towns what is it like to reach out small towns what is it like to reach out small towns what is it like to reach out into a small town you've obviously then into a small town you've obviously then into a small town you've obviously then multiplied let's let's dig into that multiplied let's let's dig into that multiplied let's let's dig into that what's been your conviction on that what's been your conviction on that what's been your conviction on that front yeah I think that's a good way to front yeah I think that's a good way to front yeah I think that's a good way to put it I think you have to start with put it I think you have to start with put it I think you have to start with like a theological conviction that you like a theological conviction that you like a theological conviction that you know there's this big God who wants to know there's this big God who wants to know there's this big God who wants to reach the the whole world he wants to do reach the the whole world he wants to do reach the the whole world he wants to do big things and even if that's in a small big things and even if that's in a small big things and even if that's in a small place he wants to do something big I'm place he wants to do something big I'm place he wants to do something big I'm I'm so thankful for the way that the I'm so thankful for the way that the I'm so thankful for the way that the urban you know sinners and you know I've urban you know sinners and you know I've urban you know sinners and you know I've been really been really been really prioritized for gospel ministry and prioritized for gospel ministry and prioritized for gospel ministry and church planting over the last decade or church planting over the last decade or church planting over the last decade or so but I feel like maybe for some folks

so but I feel like maybe for some folks so but I feel like maybe for some folks we over swung that pendulum and we we over swung that pendulum and we we over swung that pendulum and we really lost sight of the fact that you really lost sight of the fact that you really lost sight of the fact that you know everywhere needs the gospel and so know everywhere needs the gospel and so know everywhere needs the gospel and so that includes small towns and so I that includes small towns and so I that includes small towns and so I really you know went into the church really you know went into the church really you know went into the church plant with a very small view of what God plant with a very small view of what God plant with a very small view of what God could do because I thought hey we're in could do because I thought hey we're in could do because I thought hey we're in a town of nine thousand people I mean a town of nine thousand people I mean a town of nine thousand people I mean what could possibly come out of this you what could possibly come out of this you what could possibly come out of this you know and and so uh it was you know know and and so uh it was you know know and and so uh it was you know shamefully it was me you know as well shamefully it was me you know as well shamefully it was me you know as well that was really taken aback along this that was really taken aback along this that was really taken aback along this along this journey just seeing you know along this journey just seeing you know along this journey just seeing you know God consistently bring you know hundreds God consistently bring you know hundreds God consistently bring you know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of folks and and hundreds and hundreds of folks and and hundreds and hundreds of folks and and so along the way we started going and so along the way we started going and so along the way we started going man we we've got to get like a ourselves man we we've got to get like a ourselves man we we've got to get like a ourselves have got to get a theological conviction have got to get a theological conviction have got to get a theological conviction for the fact that God wants to reach for the fact that God wants to reach for the fact that God wants to reach this place that we're in that's why he's this place that we're in that's why he's this place that we're in that's why he's put a church here and and we've got to put a church here and and we've got to put a church here and and we've got to start thinking you know and taking this start thinking you know and taking this start thinking you know and taking this seriously seriously seriously so I think you know for myself and for so I think you know for myself and for so I think you know for myself and for other guys who may find themselves in other guys who may find themselves in other guys who may find themselves in small towns or rural areas I think small towns or rural areas I think small towns or rural areas I think that's a first step is getting a real that's a first step is getting a real that's a first step is getting a real kind of theological conviction for the kind of theological conviction for the kind of theological conviction for the fact that God wants to do something fact that God wants to do something fact that God wants to do something significant where you are he he wants to significant where you are he he wants to significant where you are he he wants to reach lost people you know mm-hmm reach lost people you know mm-hmm reach lost people you know mm-hmm absolutely I you know I think there can absolutely I you know I think there can absolutely I you know I think there can be an allure I think sometimes we you be an allure I think sometimes we you be an allure I think sometimes we you know could be driven by like bigger is know could be driven by like bigger is know could be driven by like bigger is better and we think like well we just better and we think like well we just better and we think like well we just need to go to the biggest market we can need to go to the biggest market we can need to go to the biggest market we can find the most number of people as find the most number of people as find the most number of people as opposed to saying you know there there opposed to saying you know there there opposed to saying you know there there are a lot of people that live in small are a lot of people that live in small are a lot of people that live in small towns and in and they still are looking towns and in and they still are looking towns and in and they still are looking for you know thriving ministries and for you know thriving ministries and for you know thriving ministries and obviously a thriving ministry like one obviously a thriving ministry like one obviously a thriving ministry like one harbour to reach out into that what's harbour to reach out into that what's harbour to reach out into that what's been they you know give us kind of a bit

been they you know give us kind of a bit been they you know give us kind of a bit of that story the arc over those years of that story the arc over those years of that story the arc over those years as you've kind of planted out from like as you've kind of planted out from like as you've kind of planted out from like a size point of view and impact into the a size point of view and impact into the a size point of view and impact into the various campuses that you know what does various campuses that you know what does various campuses that you know what does that look like yeah so just kind of a that look like yeah so just kind of a that look like yeah so just kind of a brief story in line we grew from and brief story in line we grew from and brief story in line we grew from and really started in a living room early really started in a living room early really started in a living room early 2000 yeah early 2009 we moved into a gas 2000 yeah early 2009 we moved into a gas 2000 yeah early 2009 we moved into a gas station which is you know super station which is you know super station which is you know super conventional but most people do I was up conventional but most people do I was up conventional but most people do I was up or a step backwards like that's a or a step backwards like that's a or a step backwards like that's a sidestep yeah I don't know it was it was sidestep yeah I don't know it was it was sidestep yeah I don't know it was it was fun though we moved to a gas station was fun though we moved to a gas station was fun though we moved to a gas station was free so we were there for three or four free so we were there for three or four free so we were there for three or four months and have gone to two services it months and have gone to two services it months and have gone to two services it was it was pretty small so we were you was it was pretty small so we were you was it was pretty small so we were you know within about six months we were at know within about six months we were at know within about six months we were at 180 folks and we had to ask the that was 180 folks and we had to ask the that was 180 folks and we had to ask the that was a fun season we asked the wives to sit a fun season we asked the wives to sit a fun season we asked the wives to sit on their husband's laps cuz we're out of on their husband's laps cuz we're out of on their husband's laps cuz we're out of chairs chairs chairs anyway yeah there's not really a anyway yeah there's not really a anyway yeah there's not really a playbook for that but exactly then we playbook for that but exactly then we playbook for that but exactly then we moved into like an old abandoned moved into like an old abandoned moved into like an old abandoned restaurant and and you know there's not restaurant and and you know there's not restaurant and and you know there's not I think one of the things small town I think one of the things small town I think one of the things small town guys will face is that you know you're guys will face is that you know you're guys will face is that you know you're you don't have like tons and tons of you don't have like tons and tons of you don't have like tons and tons of buildings to pick from so you have to be buildings to pick from so you have to be buildings to pick from so you have to be creative so we were in an old abandoned creative so we were in an old abandoned creative so we were in an old abandoned restaurant and we put our kids in an restaurant and we put our kids in an restaurant and we put our kids in an abandoned hookah bar next door which abandoned hookah bar next door which abandoned hookah bar next door which smelled great yes actually raspberry and smelled great yes actually raspberry and smelled great yes actually raspberry and then and in from there we moved into a then and in from there we moved into a then and in from there we moved into a building over in Moorhead and and grew building over in Moorhead and and grew building over in Moorhead and and grew to three or 400 folks and then from to three or 400 folks and then from to three or 400 folks and then from there started multiplying so we planted there started multiplying so we planted there started multiplying so we planted the first multi-site into Beaufort which the first multi-site into Beaufort which the first multi-site into Beaufort which is the next Island over I was twice is the next Island over I was twice is the next Island over I was twice voted the coolest small town in America voted the coolest small town in America voted the coolest small town in America so it's a good place to start and

so it's a good place to start and so it's a good place to start and once they got to two services after once they got to two services after once they got to two services after about a year so we started working on about a year so we started working on about a year so we started working on the next location which is in a town the next location which is in a town the next location which is in a town called Swansboro about 35 minutes away called Swansboro about 35 minutes away called Swansboro about 35 minutes away and within three weeks there at two and within three weeks there at two and within three weeks there at two services and they're running about 350 services and they're running about 350 services and they're running about 350 on a Sunday Tom's and the town size is on a Sunday Tom's and the town size is on a Sunday Tom's and the town size is you know a couple thousand folks it's a you know a couple thousand folks it's a you know a couple thousand folks it's a pretty significant you know portion of pretty significant you know portion of pretty significant you know portion of people so you know Moorhead now we're people so you know Moorhead now we're people so you know Moorhead now we're running 800 or so on a Sunday but our running 800 or so on a Sunday but our running 800 or so on a Sunday but our town is only 9,000 so um you really feel town is only 9,000 so um you really feel town is only 9,000 so um you really feel like like like you're making a sizable dent and you're making a sizable dent and you're making a sizable dent and community you know you solutely if like community you know you solutely if like community you know you solutely if like when you walk around everywhere you go when you walk around everywhere you go when you walk around everywhere you go you can kind of feel you know the way you can kind of feel you know the way you can kind of feel you know the way that gods using the church in the that gods using the church in the that gods using the church in the community and helping shape culture and community and helping shape culture and community and helping shape culture and and and so anyway I think that's one of and and so anyway I think that's one of and and so anyway I think that's one of the most exciting things about doing the most exciting things about doing the most exciting things about doing ministry in a small town is you really ministry in a small town is you really ministry in a small town is you really can make you can make an impact pretty can make you can make an impact pretty can make you can make an impact pretty quick you know and so ya know give me a quick you know and so ya know give me a quick you know and so ya know give me a sense of how you know obviously each of sense of how you know obviously each of sense of how you know obviously each of those communities have their own culture those communities have their own culture those communities have their own culture you know they have their own or you know they have their own or you know they have their own or something that makes them tick how is it something that makes them tick how is it something that makes them tick how is it that you're you know kind of getting the that you're you know kind of getting the that you're you know kind of getting the pulse of that community to be able to pulse of that community to be able to pulse of that community to be able to you know to reach out into those you you know to reach out into those you you know to reach out into those you know various communities yeah I think know various communities yeah I think know various communities yeah I think that's a good point I think small so that's a good point I think small so that's a good point I think small so small towns you know they're it's a small towns you know they're it's a small towns you know they're it's a smaller contingency of people just by smaller contingency of people just by smaller contingency of people just by default where is like if you do ministry default where is like if you do ministry default where is like if you do ministry in an urban center you know you've got in an urban center you know you've got in an urban center you know you've got this just giant sort of you know variety this just giant sort of you know variety this just giant sort of you know variety of all kinds of subcultures and you can of all kinds of subcultures and you can of all kinds of subcultures and you can you could go in to you know you go into

you could go in to you know you go into you could go in to you know you go into a large city and you could have just a large city and you could have just a large city and you could have just about do ministry you know however you about do ministry you know however you about do ministry you know however you wanted and you wouldn't you know wanted and you wouldn't you know wanted and you wouldn't you know necessarily make the biggest impact but necessarily make the biggest impact but necessarily make the biggest impact but you could attract a small crowd to a you could attract a small crowd to a you could attract a small crowd to a medium-sized crowd because you know medium-sized crowd because you know medium-sized crowd because you know across a big city there's at least a across a big city there's at least a across a big city there's at least a contingency of people who already agree contingency of people who already agree contingency of people who already agree with you I think the challenge would do with you I think the challenge would do with you I think the challenge would do a ministry in a small town is you know a ministry in a small town is you know a ministry in a small town is you know those that get that sort of that window those that get that sort of that window those that get that sort of that window of you know what you're what you're of you know what you're what you're of you know what you're what you're working with is so much smaller you working with is so much smaller you working with is so much smaller you really have to get to know the culture really have to get to know the culture really have to get to know the culture and and find ways to do ministry that and and find ways to do ministry that and and find ways to do ministry that makes sense to you that the sort of the makes sense to you that the sort of the makes sense to you that the sort of the narrow you know narrow you know narrow you know representation and so for us it's really representation and so for us it's really representation and so for us it's really just getting to know local people and just getting to know local people and just getting to know local people and spending lots of time you know figuring spending lots of time you know figuring spending lots of time you know figuring out what makes our town tick what are out what makes our town tick what are out what makes our town tick what are the real felt needs what what are things the real felt needs what what are things the real felt needs what what are things people love and celebrate what are people love and celebrate what are people love and celebrate what are things that they like they mourn and and things that they like they mourn and and things that they like they mourn and and how can we do ministry in a way that how can we do ministry in a way that how can we do ministry in a way that that makes sense to them you know and that makes sense to them you know and that makes sense to them you know and there's unchangeable things like the there's unchangeable things like the there's unchangeable things like the gospel and so on and so on but there's a gospel and so on and so on but there's a gospel and so on and so on but there's a lot of ways that we do ministry that we lot of ways that we do ministry that we lot of ways that we do ministry that we found we can we can change to you know found we can we can change to you know found we can we can change to you know make more sense here and you know even make more sense here and you know even make more sense here and you know even just the way that our buildings look and just the way that our buildings look and just the way that our buildings look and feel I mean they feel very unique to the feel I mean they feel very unique to the feel I mean they feel very unique to the town they're in you know the difference town they're in you know the difference town they're in you know the difference between our Moorhead building and our between our Moorhead building and our between our Moorhead building and our Bofur buildings they're only seven Bofur buildings they're only seven Bofur buildings they're only seven minutes away from each other but that minutes away from each other but that minutes away from each other but that the look and feel of them is drastically the look and feel of them is drastically the look and feel of them is drastically different because the the two towns are different because the the two towns are different because the the two towns are really different you know and so really different you know and so really different you know and so so I think I think it's I don't I don't so I think I think it's I don't I don't so I think I think it's I don't I don't think that a church planter in a large think that a church planter in a large think that a church planter in a large city can afford to just do ministry city can afford to just do ministry city can afford to just do ministry however they want by any means I do however they want by any means I do however they want by any means I do think if you're in a small town your think if you're in a small town your think if you're in a small town your failure rate is gonna go up if that's

failure rate is gonna go up if that's failure rate is gonna go up if that's how you act you know it's gonna be much how you act you know it's gonna be much how you act you know it's gonna be much higher you know mm-hmm yeah because higher you know mm-hmm yeah because higher you know mm-hmm yeah because you've got it is that because you know you've got it is that because you know you've got it is that because you know maybe in a larger context you can narrow maybe in a larger context you can narrow maybe in a larger context you can narrow cast the kind of cultural expression of cast the kind of cultural expression of cast the kind of cultural expression of your your church and you know just be your your church and you know just be your your church and you know just be frankly more people you know so you can frankly more people you know so you can frankly more people you know so you can find them but obviously when you're in a find them but obviously when you're in a find them but obviously when you're in a smaller community the fact like by smaller community the fact like by smaller community the fact like by percentage-wise the fact that there's percentage-wise the fact that there's percentage-wise the fact that there's you know 800 people at your church in a you know 800 people at your church in a you know 800 people at your church in a community of 9,000 well I can't think of community of 9,000 well I can't think of community of 9,000 well I can't think of any church that has that like that's a any church that has that like that's a any church that has that like that's a huge percentage of their you know of huge percentage of their you know of huge percentage of their you know of your community and so you've had to kind your community and so you've had to kind your community and so you've had to kind of say well what's the kind of broadest of say well what's the kind of broadest of say well what's the kind of broadest cultural kind of what is what what cultural kind of what is what what cultural kind of what is what what unifies all of the the people that are unifies all of the the people that are unifies all of the the people that are living here and how do we kind of aim living here and how do we kind of aim living here and how do we kind of aim our programming towards that is that you our programming towards that is that you our programming towards that is that you know kind of what yeah I think yes and know kind of what yeah I think yes and know kind of what yeah I think yes and no I think you've got a do church in a no I think you've got a do church in a no I think you've got a do church in a way that makes sense to like the rich way that makes sense to like the rich way that makes sense to like the rich and the poor yep the various like ethnic and the poor yep the various like ethnic and the poor yep the various like ethnic you know like you've got to try to do you know like you've got to try to do you know like you've got to try to do church in a way that at least makes it church in a way that at least makes it church in a way that at least makes it comfortable for the most amount of comfortable for the most amount of comfortable for the most amount of people possible and so we've kind of had people possible and so we've kind of had people possible and so we've kind of had to sort of walk it a you know a tight to sort of walk it a you know a tight to sort of walk it a you know a tight line there you know even with the line there you know even with the line there you know even with the facility going hey we want you know we facility going hey we want you know we facility going hey we want you know we want we want as many people as possible want we want as many people as possible want we want as many people as possible in our town to come in and feel like in our town to come in and feel like in our town to come in and feel like comfortable it's in to some extent but I comfortable it's in to some extent but I comfortable it's in to some extent but I would say the other side of that is you would say the other side of that is you would say the other side of that is you know I think you've got a you've got to know I think you've got a you've got to know I think you've got a you've got to really target subculture you know really target subculture you know really target subculture you know subculture after subculture sort of one subculture after subculture sort of one subculture after subculture sort of one at a time individually you know like for at a time individually you know like for at a time individually you know like for me I started with the surfing subculture me I started with the surfing subculture me I started with the surfing subculture in our town because you know I grew up in our town because you know I grew up in our town because you know I grew up that's all I was good at I was never that's all I was good at I was never that's all I was good at I was never fitting the ball you know if I've got

fitting the ball you know if I've got fitting the ball you know if I've got two boys if they grew up wanting to play two boys if they grew up wanting to play two boys if they grew up wanting to play football there have to rent a dad yeah football there have to rent a dad yeah football there have to rent a dad yeah I don't know anything about that but but I don't know anything about that but but I don't know anything about that but but I was good at like stuff in the ocean I was good at like stuff in the ocean I was good at like stuff in the ocean and so we planted the church we we went and so we planted the church we we went and so we planted the church we we went after you know the surfing community and after you know the surfing community and after you know the surfing community and just by the grace of God you know those just by the grace of God you know those just by the grace of God you know those folks start getting saved and baptized folks start getting saved and baptized folks start getting saved and baptized and you know coming on the leadership and you know coming on the leadership and you know coming on the leadership and now it feels like we really and now it feels like we really and now it feels like we really penetrated that subculture and then I penetrated that subculture and then I penetrated that subculture and then I begin to work with those guys who I've begin to work with those guys who I've begin to work with those guys who I've met in the water and say hey you know met in the water and say hey you know met in the water and say hey you know what is it you do for a living how can what is it you do for a living how can what is it you do for a living how can you reach the people and so I think I you reach the people and so I think I you reach the people and so I think I think there's there's sort of the broad think there's there's sort of the broad think there's there's sort of the broad strategy of how you do ministry on a strategy of how you do ministry on a strategy of how you do ministry on a Sunday but I think it's also Sunday but I think it's also Sunday but I think it's also understanding that you've got a you've understanding that you've got a you've understanding that you've got a you've got to navigate the nuance of like got to navigate the nuance of like got to navigate the nuance of like different subcultures within even a different subcultures within even a different subcultures within even a small town you know don't reach small town you know don't reach small town you know don't reach everybody absolutely now there everybody absolutely now there everybody absolutely now there definitely is a cultural trend towards definitely is a cultural trend towards definitely is a cultural trend towards you know people are leaving small towns you know people are leaving small towns you know people are leaving small towns and are moving to larger contexts that's and are moving to larger contexts that's and are moving to larger contexts that's just true right like there is you know just true right like there is you know just true right like there is you know that trend continues now there's an that trend continues now there's an that trend continues now there's an interesting thing and you're the expert interesting thing and you're the expert interesting thing and you're the expert I'm not the expert on this but there's I'm not the expert on this but there's I'm not the expert on this but there's an interesting trend where there are an interesting trend where there are an interesting trend where there are people that are choosing to go the other people that are choosing to go the other people that are choosing to go the other way that are saying actually I would way that are saying actually I would way that are saying actually I would prefer to live in a smaller Center for prefer to live in a smaller Center for prefer to live in a smaller Center for whatever reason and in fact I was just whatever reason and in fact I was just whatever reason and in fact I was just speaking with the guy who speaking with the guy who speaking with the guy who probably what two weeks ago who was on probably what two weeks ago who was on probably what two weeks ago who was on one of those like top CEO you know list one of those like top CEO you know list one of those like top CEO you know list he literally could live anywhere in the he literally could live anywhere in the he literally could live anywhere in the world his company is you know they have world his company is you know they have world his company is you know they have locations in 26 countries a pretty big locations in 26 countries a pretty big locations in 26 countries a pretty big big guy but he he basic he lives in a big guy but he he basic he lives in a big guy but he he basic he lives in a small Center on purpose because he's small Center on purpose because he's small Center on purpose because he's like listen I can I can manage my entire like listen I can I can manage my entire like listen I can I can manage my entire company from an internet connection and company from an internet connection and company from an internet connection and yeah I you know I have meetings with

yeah I you know I have meetings with yeah I you know I have meetings with people I'll jump in the car and go and people I'll jump in the car and go and people I'll jump in the car and go and see offices or get on the plane and go see offices or get on the plane and go see offices or get on the plane and go somewhere but I'm choosing to be in a somewhere but I'm choosing to be in a somewhere but I'm choosing to be in a small town what is it about people small town what is it about people small town what is it about people and obviously this is like super and obviously this is like super and obviously this is like super dangerous to ask a question like this dangerous to ask a question like this dangerous to ask a question like this you know what is it that you're seeing you know what is it that you're seeing you know what is it that you're seeing in that trend why are people making that in that trend why are people making that in that trend why are people making that choice and then what is it that how can choice and then what is it that how can choice and then what is it that how can the church kind of meet that culture how the church kind of meet that culture how the church kind of meet that culture how does the church meet you know the group does the church meet you know the group does the church meet you know the group of people who are saying you know what I of people who are saying you know what I of people who are saying you know what I don't want to live in a super-large don't want to live in a super-large don't want to live in a super-large Center I want to choose to live in a Center I want to choose to live in a Center I want to choose to live in a small town small town small town yeah so that's a that's a broad question yeah so that's a that's a broad question yeah so that's a that's a broad question yeah I'll take a swing at it I think I yeah I'll take a swing at it I think I yeah I'll take a swing at it I think I think I think what you brought up is think I think what you brought up is think I think what you brought up is it's probably the biggest changing it's probably the biggest changing it's probably the biggest changing factor is the Internet yeah I think a factor is the Internet yeah I think a factor is the Internet yeah I think a lot of I mean when I grew up in this lot of I mean when I grew up in this lot of I mean when I grew up in this town that I'm in now you know I went to town that I'm in now you know I went to town that I'm in now you know I went to high school I graduated in 99 so you high school I graduated in 99 so you high school I graduated in 99 so you know we still felt like the Internet was know we still felt like the Internet was know we still felt like the Internet was like this thing that may or may not like this thing that may or may not like this thing that may or may not stick around back then you know and I stick around back then you know and I stick around back then you know and I didn't have an email address or anything didn't have an email address or anything didn't have an email address or anything like that and and and people just like that and and and people just like that and and and people just instinctively you left either there's instinctively you left either there's instinctively you left either there's two groups of people you either stayed two groups of people you either stayed two groups of people you either stayed and work for your family's business or and work for your family's business or and work for your family's business or you left and went to college knowing you left and went to college knowing you left and went to college knowing that you're like hopefully never gonna that you're like hopefully never gonna that you're like hopefully never gonna you know come back except for the you know come back except for the you know come back except for the holidays you know because you know the holidays you know because you know the holidays you know because you know the jobs and the but like you know good jobs and the but like you know good jobs and the but like you know good restaurants and just you know good restaurants and just you know good restaurants and just you know good concerts and all this stuff was going to concerts and all this stuff was going to concerts and all this stuff was going to happen in big cities for us like happen in big cities for us like happen in big cities for us like raleigh-durham that sort of area you raleigh-durham that sort of area you raleigh-durham that sort of area you know whereas now with the internet you know whereas now with the internet you know whereas now with the internet you know really we're finding lots and lots know really we're finding lots and lots know really we're finding lots and lots of young professionals or staying here of young professionals or staying here of young professionals or staying here moving back here because of that they moving back here because of that they moving back here because of that they can they can work from anywhere in the can they can work from anywhere in the can they can work from anywhere in the world and and also we're finding a lot

world and and also we're finding a lot world and and also we're finding a lot of folks who you know lived in Raleigh of folks who you know lived in Raleigh of folks who you know lived in Raleigh you know maybe they were an older you know maybe they were an older you know maybe they were an older generation like my parents generation generation like my parents generation generation like my parents generation and they owned homes you know in in and they owned homes you know in in and they owned homes you know in in Raleigh and that's where they live Raleigh and that's where they live Raleigh and that's where they live because of business and they vacationed because of business and they vacationed because of business and they vacationed where I live more and more of these where I live more and more of these where I live more and more of these folks are moving now that they like they folks are moving now that they like they folks are moving now that they like they can work from anywhere and they can live can work from anywhere and they can live can work from anywhere and they can live anywhere and and they can live you know anywhere and and they can live you know anywhere and and they can live you know where they always like the vacation and where they always like the vacation and where they always like the vacation and a lot of these guys are you know getting a lot of these guys are you know getting a lot of these guys are you know getting really excited about their now being a really excited about their now being a really excited about their now being a church here that's you know that they church here that's you know that they church here that's you know that they really enjoy so we're finding more and really enjoy so we're finding more and really enjoy so we're finding more and more of those really high-end more of those really high-end more of those really high-end professional folks moving moving here professional folks moving moving here professional folks moving moving here and living here permanently because you and living here permanently because you and living here permanently because you know they can do everything they need to know they can do everything they need to know they can do everything they need to do you know and so I think I think do you know and so I think I think do you know and so I think I think that's really changed additionally I that's really changed additionally I that's really changed additionally I think sort of the think sort of the think sort of the yeah I don't know if it's like a I mean yeah I don't know if it's like a I mean yeah I don't know if it's like a I mean I don't want to say like the hipster I don't want to say like the hipster I don't want to say like the hipster kind of thing but I mean we that vibe is kind of thing but I mean we that vibe is kind of thing but I mean we that vibe is really alive and well in small towns and really alive and well in small towns and really alive and well in small towns and that's sort of authentic you know local that's sort of authentic you know local that's sort of authentic you know local farmers market folk music lots of farmers market folk music lots of farmers market folk music lots of artisanal things yes that's sort of that artisanal things yes that's sort of that artisanal things yes that's sort of that that like that's becoming vogue yeah and that like that's becoming vogue yeah and that like that's becoming vogue yeah and and really that's I mean that's what and really that's I mean that's what and really that's I mean that's what small towns have always had and there's small towns have always had and there's small towns have always had and there's always been a real genuineness you know always been a real genuineness you know always been a real genuineness you know and I mean still to this day the chain and I mean still to this day the chain and I mean still to this day the chain restaurants really just come and go and restaurants really just come and go and restaurants really just come and go and in our town but people don't go to them in our town but people don't go to them in our town but people don't go to them people don't want now they want to eat people don't want now they want to eat people don't want now they want to eat at the local stuff you know and so now at the local stuff you know and so now at the local stuff you know and so now that that's becoming cool I think it's that that's becoming cool I think it's that that's becoming cool I think it's becoming an attraction alot of small becoming an attraction alot of small becoming an attraction alot of small towns interesting now I changing towns interesting now I changing towns interesting now I changing direction a little bit I mean one of the direction a little bit I mean one of the direction a little bit I mean one of the interesting kind of trends I would interesting kind of trends I would interesting kind of trends I would imagine in a smaller Center is or imagine in a smaller Center is or imagine in a smaller Center is or dynamics maybe in a smaller center is

dynamics maybe in a smaller center is dynamics maybe in a smaller center is hey if if something goes wrong there's hey if if something goes wrong there's hey if if something goes wrong there's kind of the you know the the stereotype kind of the you know the the stereotype kind of the you know the the stereotype of like hey small towns you know news of like hey small towns you know news of like hey small towns you know news travels fast right it's like hey you travels fast right it's like hey you travels fast right it's like hey you know if there's like the town gossip and know if there's like the town gossip and know if there's like the town gossip and all that stuff but then the flip side of all that stuff but then the flip side of all that stuff but then the flip side of that which I would imagine you're that which I would imagine you're that which I would imagine you're leveraging is gosh when when there's leveraging is gosh when when there's leveraging is gosh when when there's like something really positive happening like something really positive happening like something really positive happening at a church people can find out really at a church people can find out really at a church people can find out really quickly and news spreads and kind of quickly and news spreads and kind of quickly and news spreads and kind of word gets around can you kind of give me word gets around can you kind of give me word gets around can you kind of give me a sense of those dynamics that you're a sense of those dynamics that you're a sense of those dynamics that you're experiencing yeah it's absolutely true experiencing yeah it's absolutely true experiencing yeah it's absolutely true you know if so in it's such a I mean you know if so in it's such a I mean you know if so in it's such a I mean it's such a dangerous and and helpful it's such a dangerous and and helpful it's such a dangerous and and helpful thing at the same time I know you know thing at the same time I know you know thing at the same time I know you know there's lots of times you know surfing there's lots of times you know surfing there's lots of times you know surfing for example where you know someone is for example where you know someone is for example where you know someone is just you know consistently you know just you know consistently you know just you know consistently you know really being a jerk in the water and the really being a jerk in the water and the really being a jerk in the water and the natural thing to do would be that kind natural thing to do would be that kind natural thing to do would be that kind of you know mouthed off at them I know of you know mouthed off at them I know of you know mouthed off at them I know if I do that one time my entire town if I do that one time my entire town if I do that one time my entire town will know about it before I get home and will know about it before I get home and will know about it before I get home and you know I'll just have to you know move you know I'll just have to you know move you know I'll just have to you know move and start over somewhere else like and start over somewhere else like and start over somewhere else like there's there's no like I can't even there's there's no like I can't even there's there's no like I can't even write a bad review about a restaurant on write a bad review about a restaurant on write a bad review about a restaurant on TripAdvisor right because because I'm TripAdvisor right because because I'm TripAdvisor right because because I'm sure it would get people would find out sure it would get people would find out sure it would get people would find out it was me you know and so sort of that it was me you know and so sort of that it was me you know and so sort of that that way of like living that you can that way of like living that you can that way of like living that you can sort of get away with that I'm out lived sort of get away with that I'm out lived sort of get away with that I'm out lived in Los Angeles for a while and you can in Los Angeles for a while and you can in Los Angeles for a while and you can kind of get away with you know maybe kind of get away with you know maybe kind of get away with you know maybe treat maybe you shouldn't but you can treat maybe you shouldn't but you can treat maybe you shouldn't but you can get away with treating people a certain get away with treating people a certain get away with treating people a certain way you just can't do that in a small way you just can't do that in a small way you just can't do that in a small town because it'll ruin your reputation town because it'll ruin your reputation town because it'll ruin your reputation overnight but on the flip side like overnight but on the flip side like overnight but on the flip side like you're right if you can if you can you're right if you can if you can you're right if you can if you can leverage that the word of mouth thing is

leverage that the word of mouth thing is leverage that the word of mouth thing is powerful and and you know that has powerful and and you know that has powerful and and you know that has really been the thing you know I liken really been the thing you know I liken really been the thing you know I liken it to it to it to you know the the woman had the wealth you know the the woman had the wealth you know the the woman had the wealth you know where Jesus meets this woman you know where Jesus meets this woman you know where Jesus meets this woman and she goes and she tells us she tells and she goes and she tells us she tells and she goes and she tells us she tells all these people who knew her really all these people who knew her really all these people who knew her really well and they come and we you know we well and they come and we you know we well and they come and we you know we want to come see for ourselves because want to come see for ourselves because want to come see for ourselves because we know you we know who you really are I we know you we know who you really are I we know you we know who you really are I think in a small town everybody knows think in a small town everybody knows think in a small town everybody knows everybody by and large and when you know everybody by and large and when you know everybody by and large and when you know our second week the church met I'll give our second week the church met I'll give our second week the church met I'll give you an example a guy showed up said he you an example a guy showed up said he you an example a guy showed up said he had 10 minutes and he was you know he had 10 minutes and he was you know he had 10 minutes and he was you know he had to leave and I was like well it's had to leave and I was like well it's had to leave and I was like well it's Church it's gonna take longer than that Church it's gonna take longer than that Church it's gonna take longer than that you know and he stayed the whole time you know and he stayed the whole time you know and he stayed the whole time and he kept coming back he kept coming and he kept coming back he kept coming and he kept coming back he kept coming back he can we come back in a few weeks back he can we come back in a few weeks back he can we come back in a few weeks after he came over one time he showed up after he came over one time he showed up after he came over one time he showed up at my house and he said hey he said you at my house and he said hey he said you at my house and he said hey he said you know do you want to know where I had to know do you want to know where I had to know do you want to know where I had to be that day Russ said I had 10 minutes I be that day Russ said I had 10 minutes I be that day Russ said I had 10 minutes I said yeah sure he said well I was on my said yeah sure he said well I was on my said yeah sure he said well I was on my way to kill myself he said I've been in way to kill myself he said I've been in way to kill myself he said I've been in heroin now yeah I said I'd been a heroin heroin now yeah I said I'd been a heroin heroin now yeah I said I'd been a heroin addict and they told me if I got clean addict and they told me if I got clean addict and they told me if I got clean I'd be I'd be happy and I've been clean I'd be I'd be happy and I've been clean I'd be I'd be happy and I've been clean for five years and I'm still miserable for five years and I'm still miserable for five years and I'm still miserable and so he's like I was on my way to kill and so he's like I was on my way to kill and so he's like I was on my way to kill myself and this was the second the myself and this was the second the myself and this was the second the second week we were we were meeting he second week we were we were meeting he second week we were we were meeting he said I was driving now drove past the or said I was driving now drove past the or said I was driving now drove past the or somebody said a church had started I somebody said a church had started I somebody said a church had started I thought I'll pup and I'll give him 10 thought I'll pup and I'll give him 10 thought I'll pup and I'll give him 10 minutes now that guy is married he's minutes now that guy is married he's minutes now that guy is married he's clean he's got a job he's in our in our clean he's got a job he's in our in our clean he's got a job he's in our in our eldership development program I think eldership development program I think eldership development program I think he's going to end up plant a church but he's going to end up plant a church but he's going to end up plant a church but he went and told everybody he knew and he went and told everybody he knew and he went and told everybody he knew and he I mean he drug you know he just he he I mean he drug you know he just he he I mean he drug you know he just he dragged people every single Sunday he'd dragged people every single Sunday he'd dragged people every single Sunday he'd pick up hitchhikers he'd call us you pick up hitchhikers he'd call us you pick up hitchhikers he'd call us you know he called drug addicts he knew and know he called drug addicts he knew and know he called drug addicts he knew and tell him that he had worked for him and tell him that he had worked for him and tell him that he had worked for him and then you know bring him to church and so then you know bring him to church and so then you know bring him to church and so he had to work through them you know the

he had to work through them you know the he had to work through them you know the ethics of that and he just ethics of that and he just ethics of that and he just you know that kind of thing can happen I you know that kind of thing can happen I you know that kind of thing can happen I think in a small town and really working think in a small town and really working think in a small town and really working your benefit you know interesting huh your benefit you know interesting huh your benefit you know interesting huh that's really cool now you've pulled that's really cool now you've pulled that's really cool now you've pulled together a book small town Jesus I'd together a book small town Jesus I'd together a book small town Jesus I'd love to hear about that tell us about love to hear about that tell us about love to hear about that tell us about you know why did you write that book you know why did you write that book you know why did you write that book what motivated you what do you worry what motivated you what do you worry what motivated you what do you worry what are you hoping people will you know what are you hoping people will you know what are you hoping people will you know will benefit from it sure so wrote the will benefit from it sure so wrote the will benefit from it sure so wrote the book really because I couldn't find book really because I couldn't find book really because I couldn't find anything that it was hard to find anything that it was hard to find anything that it was hard to find resources that I think really helped resources that I think really helped resources that I think really helped explain the the rationale the why behind explain the the rationale the why behind explain the the rationale the why behind we should you know why we should do we should you know why we should do we should you know why we should do ministry in small towns and really ministry in small towns and really ministry in small towns and really started to look at how we should do that started to look at how we should do that started to look at how we should do that how we should plant churches how we how we should plant churches how we how we should plant churches how we should revitalize churches in small should revitalize churches in small should revitalize churches in small towns I felt like there were some books towns I felt like there were some books towns I felt like there were some books that had took an ax stabbed at ador for that had took an ax stabbed at ador for that had took an ax stabbed at ador for whatever reason so I wanted to try to do whatever reason so I wanted to try to do whatever reason so I wanted to try to do something that you know helped inspire something that you know helped inspire something that you know helped inspire you know a generation of guys to do to you know a generation of guys to do to you know a generation of guys to do to do ministry in small towns in a way that do ministry in small towns in a way that do ministry in small towns in a way that was really effective so we take the was really effective so we take the was really effective so we take the first half of the book and really first half of the book and really first half of the book and really address the the why so thats theological address the the why so thats theological address the the why so thats theological ey you know looking at you know Jesus ey you know looking at you know Jesus ey you know looking at you know Jesus you know Jesus of Nazareth he's from a you know Jesus of Nazareth he's from a you know Jesus of Nazareth he's from a small town since this disciples small small town since this disciples small small town since this disciples small towns me really looking at the towns me really looking at the towns me really looking at the theological you know emphasis for it theological you know emphasis for it theological you know emphasis for it then really you know there's a real then really you know there's a real then really you know there's a real sociological reason as well I mean I sociological reason as well I mean I sociological reason as well I mean I think a lot of people still have a very think a lot of people still have a very think a lot of people still have a very sort of sort of sort of sort of euphoric kind of stereotypical sort of euphoric kind of stereotypical sort of euphoric kind of stereotypical view of small towns that feels like view of small towns that feels like view of small towns that feels like Mayberry you know like romantic show Mayberry you know like romantic show Mayberry you know like romantic show we're like right like there's no crime we're like right like there's no crime we're like right like there's no crime everyone's doing great fresh pies all

everyone's doing great fresh pies all everyone's doing great fresh pies all the time when really like the modern the time when really like the modern the time when really like the modern small town you know in America at least small town you know in America at least small town you know in America at least is there hubs for you know human is there hubs for you know human is there hubs for you know human trafficking they're you know meth labs I trafficking they're you know meth labs I trafficking they're you know meth labs I mean this this is where a lot of really mean this this is where a lot of really mean this this is where a lot of really bad crime is happening in our country bad crime is happening in our country bad crime is happening in our country and then sort of just kind of just so and then sort of just kind of just so and then sort of just kind of just so spelled out all those rash now so you spelled out all those rash now so you spelled out all those rash now so you know 33 you know 30 3.7 million people know 33 you know 30 3.7 million people know 33 you know 30 3.7 million people you know live in towns under 25,000 you know live in towns under 25,000 you know live in towns under 25,000 people in America how do we reach those people in America how do we reach those people in America how do we reach those guys and so the second half of the book guys and so the second half of the book guys and so the second half of the book then kind of deals with the hal - and so then kind of deals with the hal - and so then kind of deals with the hal - and so that's stuff that we talked about like that's stuff that we talked about like that's stuff that we talked about like being a good local it's you know doing being a good local it's you know doing being a good local it's you know doing ministry in a way that makes sense it's ministry in a way that makes sense it's ministry in a way that makes sense it's you know it's understanding small-town you know it's understanding small-town you know it's understanding small-town mentality zits confronting things like mentality zits confronting things like mentality zits confronting things like racism and these age-old just you know racism and these age-old just you know racism and these age-old just you know really just anti ghusl issues that you really just anti ghusl issues that you really just anti ghusl issues that you know small towns just seem to harbor and know small towns just seem to harbor and know small towns just seem to harbor and then and then at the end even like then and then at the end even like then and then at the end even like talking through you know something talking through you know something talking through you know something that's really helped me is working with that's really helped me is working with that's really helped me is working with churches who orally you know in big churches who orally you know in big churches who orally you know in big cities and learning what we can and cities and learning what we can and cities and learning what we can and reformatting and partner it together and reformatting and partner it together and reformatting and partner it together and and so just how to kind of how to do and so just how to kind of how to do and so just how to kind of how to do that how to learn from you know and and that how to learn from you know and and that how to learn from you know and and partner with churches that are in much partner with churches that are in much partner with churches that are in much larger context and you know how we can larger context and you know how we can larger context and you know how we can serve each other so that's kind of the serve each other so that's kind of the serve each other so that's kind of the emphasis for the book very cool why did emphasis for the book very cool why did emphasis for the book very cool why did encourage people to pick up a copy of encourage people to pick up a copy of encourage people to pick up a copy of that and and I actually just ordered it that and and I actually just ordered it that and and I actually just ordered it this morning when I was doing a little this morning when I was doing a little this morning when I was doing a little research I'm like this looks great so I research I'm like this looks great so I research I'm like this looks great so I look forward to reading through it so look forward to reading through it so look forward to reading through it so you know really appreciate that anything you know really appreciate that anything you know really appreciate that anything else you want to share before we jump on else you want to share before we jump on else you want to share before we jump on to the rest of the episode yeah so I to the rest of the episode yeah so I to the rest of the episode yeah so I mean I'm just I want to say again how mean I'm just I want to say again how mean I'm just I want to say again how thankful I am for this opportunity and thankful I am for this opportunity and thankful I am for this opportunity and we're gonna continue I feel like we're we're gonna continue I feel like we're we're gonna continue I feel like we're the the beginning stages of trying to the the beginning stages of trying to the the beginning stages of trying to help with you know revitalization in

help with you know revitalization in help with you know revitalization in small towns and church planting small small towns and church planting small small towns and church planting small towns so I've got a website small town towns so I've got a website small town towns so I've got a website small town Jesus calm we've got a blog on there and Jesus calm we've got a blog on there and Jesus calm we've got a blog on there and we're just we're gonna really try to we're just we're gonna really try to we're just we're gonna really try to work together and collaborate with other work together and collaborate with other work together and collaborate with other pastors around the country and hopefully pastors around the country and hopefully pastors around the country and hopefully just continue to resource guys so if just continue to resource guys so if just continue to resource guys so if you're interested in that kind of stuff you're interested in that kind of stuff you're interested in that kind of stuff I just say check it out this is the I just say check it out this is the I just say check it out this is the uncie Maneri podcast stuff you wish they uncie Maneri podcast stuff you wish they uncie Maneri podcast stuff you wish they taught in seminary well we're gonna jump taught in seminary well we're gonna jump taught in seminary well we're gonna jump into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of into the lightning round that part of the episode where we ask similar the episode where we ask similar the episode where we ask similar questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the questions of everybody that's on the show super honored to have Donny Griggs show super honored to have Donny Griggs show super honored to have Donny Griggs with us today from one Harbor Church with us today from one Harbor Church with us today from one Harbor Church this has been a great conversation this has been a great conversation this has been a great conversation today Donny what's an online resource today Donny what's an online resource today Donny what's an online resource that you're using these days that's that you're using these days that's that you're using these days that's helping you out man I'm the worst of helping you out man I'm the worst of helping you out man I'm the worst of this stuff I'm ashamed to say it's this stuff I'm ashamed to say it's this stuff I'm ashamed to say it's actually my staff that's trying to get actually my staff that's trying to get actually my staff that's trying to get me to learn Google duck so nice yeah I'm me to learn Google duck so nice yeah I'm me to learn Google duck so nice yeah I'm pretty bad at all this okay well that's pretty bad at all this okay well that's pretty bad at all this okay well that's a good place to start that's good nice a good place to start that's good nice a good place to start that's good nice little collaboration good yeah what's a little collaboration good yeah what's a little collaboration good yeah what's a book you've read in the last I don't book you've read in the last I don't book you've read in the last I don't know maybe six months to a year that's know maybe six months to a year that's know maybe six months to a year that's that's shaping your thinking ministry that's shaping your thinking ministry that's shaping your thinking ministry yeah so the mission of God by yeah so the mission of God by yeah so the mission of God by Christopher right and man so I'm a kind Christopher right and man so I'm a kind Christopher right and man so I'm a kind of emissions junkie I've always just of emissions junkie I've always just of emissions junkie I've always just loved study Missy ology and studying loved study Missy ology and studying loved study Missy ology and studying missionaries and missionaries and missionaries and and this is I'm on this journey to keep and this is I'm on this journey to keep and this is I'm on this journey to keep kind of backing up and and trying to you kind of backing up and and trying to you kind of backing up and and trying to you know see the forest and the trees and I know see the forest and the trees and I know see the forest and the trees and I think what he's done in the book is think what he's done in the book is think what he's done in the book is really helping he's helping to you that really helping he's helping to you that really helping he's helping to you that he's helping us catch a glimpse of this he's helping us catch a glimpse of this he's helping us catch a glimpse of this grand narrative it's God's mission and grand narrative it's God's mission and grand narrative it's God's mission and and how that you know works with this and how that you know works with this and how that you know works with this on-the-ground stuff that we're talking on-the-ground stuff that we're talking on-the-ground stuff that we're talking about like in cities in small towns and about like in cities in small towns and about like in cities in small towns and so anyway it's been really good very

so anyway it's been really good very so anyway it's been really good very cool cool cool what's another ministry that yet you're what's another ministry that yet you're what's another ministry that yet you're looking at that kind of inspires you looking at that kind of inspires you looking at that kind of inspires you these days these days these days yeah so actually it's it's another yeah so actually it's it's another yeah so actually it's it's another church that I mean the first thing that church that I mean the first thing that church that I mean the first thing that comes to mind it's a church called front comes to mind it's a church called front comes to mind it's a church called front line okay that's based in Oklahoma City line okay that's based in Oklahoma City line okay that's based in Oklahoma City and they're multi-site Church and anyway and they're multi-site Church and anyway and they're multi-site Church and anyway they're just doing a phenomenal job of they're just doing a phenomenal job of they're just doing a phenomenal job of engaging culture there's a military engaging culture there's a military engaging culture there's a military phrase you know run to the sound of the phrase you know run to the sound of the phrase you know run to the sound of the guns where you know they instruct these guns where you know they instruct these guns where you know they instruct these soldiers to run to where the conflict is soldiers to run to where the conflict is soldiers to run to where the conflict is not away from it and I think you know as not away from it and I think you know as not away from it and I think you know as a church planter you know it since we're a church planter you know it since we're a church planter you know it since we're it's instinctive for us it feels like to it's instinctive for us it feels like to it's instinctive for us it feels like to run away from conflict kind of put our run away from conflict kind of put our run away from conflict kind of put our heads in the sand I think frontline is heads in the sand I think frontline is heads in the sand I think frontline is just this church that's doing a just this church that's doing a just this church that's doing a phenomenal job of running - running - phenomenal job of running - running - phenomenal job of running - running - the tensions in their city and and the tensions in their city and and the tensions in their city and and applying the gospel well and loving the applying the gospel well and loving the applying the gospel well and loving the city and the fruit has just been city and the fruit has just been city and the fruit has just been phenomenal so we we have just learned a phenomenal so we we have just learned a phenomenal so we we have just learned a ton from them really have very cool if ton from them really have very cool if ton from them really have very cool if you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader you could get 15 minutes with any leader alive today who would you want to get alive today who would you want to get alive today who would you want to get that with and why yeah Tim Keller hands that with and why yeah Tim Keller hands that with and why yeah Tim Keller hands down nice yeah so for me what this guy down nice yeah so for me what this guy down nice yeah so for me what this guy has done to envision a generation of has done to envision a generation of has done to envision a generation of pastors and church planners to engage pastors and church planners to engage pastors and church planners to engage cities is what what I hope to be a part cities is what what I hope to be a part cities is what what I hope to be a part of for small towns and so I would I'd of for small towns and so I would I'd of for small towns and so I would I'd love to just yeah I'd love to spend time love to just yeah I'd love to spend time love to just yeah I'd love to spend time and I'm talking about that that's funny and I'm talking about that that's funny and I'm talking about that that's funny for folks that are listening in for folks that are listening in for folks that are listening in we actually send these questions out we actually send these questions out we actually send these questions out ahead of time so we can go back and ahead of time so we can go back and ahead of time so we can go back and forth so we're all prepped and or but I forth so we're all prepped and or but I forth so we're all prepped and or but I normally don't look at that I'll go read normally don't look at that I'll go read normally don't look at that I'll go read through everything else and as you were through everything else and as you were through everything else and as you were speaking and as I was reading her stuff speaking and as I was reading her stuff speaking and as I was reading her stuff I'm like man this guy's like the Tim I'm like man this guy's like the Tim I'm like man this guy's like the Tim Keller of small town Church guy so when

Keller of small town Church guy so when Keller of small town Church guy so when I read that I was like yeah of course I read that I was like yeah of course I read that I was like yeah of course that's a good you know a logical person that's a good you know a logical person that's a good you know a logical person that you'd want to connect with sure that you'd want to connect with sure that you'd want to connect with sure alright well one last question I know alright well one last question I know alright well one last question I know leading in any location any size town leading in any location any size town leading in any location any size town takes a lot out of you and you need to takes a lot out of you and you need to takes a lot out of you and you need to just you know kick back sometimes and just you know kick back sometimes and just you know kick back sometimes and relax what do you do for fun what do you relax what do you do for fun what do you relax what do you do for fun what do you do to just you know relax a little bit do to just you know relax a little bit do to just you know relax a little bit so it is your thing I know sir that so it is your thing I know sir that so it is your thing I know sir that would that came up for sure yeah you would that came up for sure yeah you would that came up for sure yeah you think in saltwater man I hope my life on think in saltwater man I hope my life on think in saltwater man I hope my life on our honeymoon if I could ask God for our honeymoon if I could ask God for our honeymoon if I could ask God for anything would be gills anything would be gills anything would be gills nice so we have a lot of great nice so we have a lot of great nice so we have a lot of great spearfishing and wreck diving here so spearfishing and wreck diving here so spearfishing and wreck diving here so that's my favorite thing to do but you that's my favorite thing to do but you that's my favorite thing to do but you know when it gets cold we hunt a lot know when it gets cold we hunt a lot know when it gets cold we hunt a lot like to take my boys and do that and the like to take my boys and do that and the like to take my boys and do that and the family we have a boat so we're always on family we have a boat so we're always on family we have a boat so we're always on the boat almost every night we're out the boat almost every night we're out the boat almost every night we're out last night not trying to make anybody last night not trying to make anybody last night not trying to make anybody who doesn't have a boat jealous but yeah who doesn't have a boat jealous but yeah who doesn't have a boat jealous but yeah come visit us we don't need to be come visit us we don't need to be come visit us we don't need to be jealous you could move to a small town jealous you could move to a small town jealous you could move to a small town too with water there you go good that's too with water there you go good that's too with water there you go good that's great well I really appreciate you being great well I really appreciate you being great well I really appreciate you being on the show today Donnie this has been a on the show today Donnie this has been a on the show today Donnie this has been a great conversation thanks so much for great conversation thanks so much for great conversation thanks so much for being here I appreciate you being here being here I appreciate you being here being here I appreciate you being here today thanks a lot man appreciate it today thanks a lot man appreciate it today thanks a lot man appreciate it thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's unsung Neri podcast don't be shy we'd unsung Neri podcast don't be shy we'd unsung Neri podcast don't be shy we'd love to connect check out uncie Maneri love to connect check out uncie Maneri love to connect check out uncie Maneri inbox you can sign up at unsummon airy inbox you can sign up at unsummon airy inbox you can sign up at unsummon airy calm and we'll send you helpful training calm and we'll send you helpful training calm and we'll send you helpful training resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain resources every week plus you'll gain immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive immediate access to our exclusive members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you members area with tons of resources you can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at can use connect with rich on twitter at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at rich birch or through email rich at unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check unsummon Ericom don't forget to check out the show notes for this episode at

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