x402 isn’t good (yet) — Jan Curn, Apify

>> Hello everyone. >> Hello everyone. Uh last year here at AI Engineer World Uh last year here at AI Engineer World Uh last year here at AI Engineer World Fair, uh David Cramer from Sentry had a Fair, uh David Cramer from Sentry had a Fair, uh David Cramer from Sentry had a mildly provocative talk called MCP isn't mildly provocative talk called MCP isn't mildly provocative talk called MCP isn't good yet. And back then, MCP was the new good yet. And back then, MCP was the new good yet. And back then, MCP was the new kid on the block, right? Uh it was like kid on the block, right? Uh it was like kid on the block, right? Uh it was like a lot of hype around it. People were, a lot of hype around it. People were, a lot of hype around it. People were, you know, were excited about it. But you know, were excited about it. But you know, were excited about it. But also like it wasn't really developed also like it wasn't really developed also like it wasn't really developed back then very much and it was very back then very much and it was very back then very much and it was very clunky. And in this talk, David argued, clunky. And in this talk, David argued, clunky. And in this talk, David argued, "Hey, like this technology is cool, but "Hey, like this technology is cool, but "Hey, like this technology is cool, but it has like a lot of rough edges, right? it has like a lot of rough edges, right? it has like a lot of rough edges, right? So just you know, go play with it, but So just you know, go play with it, but So just you know, go play with it, but you know, have your expectations low, you know, have your expectations low, you know, have your expectations low, right?" right?" right?" By the way, By the way, By the way, they went on and actually built one of they went on and actually built one of they went on and actually built one of the best MCP servers on the market, the best MCP servers on the market, the best MCP servers on the market, right? Like Sentry MCP is is is really right? Like Sentry MCP is is is really right? Like Sentry MCP is is is really like very well-designed server, like like very well-designed server, like like very well-designed server, like nice nice design and so on. nice nice design and so on. nice nice design and so on. And actually over the the last year, uh And actually over the the last year, uh And actually over the the last year, uh MCP became like a standard that's MCP became like a standard that's MCP became like a standard that's actually widely adopted, you know, actually widely adopted, you know, actually widely adopted, you know, across the industry. Like the top AI across the industry. Like the top AI across the industry. Like the top AI engines like Claude and ChatGPT, engines like Claude and ChatGPT, engines like Claude and ChatGPT, actually uh Claude offers MCP actually uh Claude offers MCP actually uh Claude offers MCP connectors, right? So you can plug tools connectors, right? So you can plug tools connectors, right? So you can plug tools into your AI agents. Uh into your AI agents. Uh into your AI agents. Uh uh ChatGPT calls it MC calls it apps, uh ChatGPT calls it MC calls it apps, uh ChatGPT calls it MC calls it apps, but you can also like, you know, but you can also like, you know, but you can also like, you know, directory of different services you can directory of different services you can directory of different services you can plug into your Claude. And it actually plug into your Claude. And it actually plug into your Claude. And it actually became a standard thing for became a standard thing for became a standard thing for agent-to-agent interaction, right? And agent-to-agent interaction, right? And agent-to-agent interaction, right? And uh uh uh uh despite a little little hate also uh despite a little little hate also uh despite a little little hate also about MCP, you know, I have yet to see about MCP, you know, I have yet to see about MCP, you know, I have yet to see CI connectors in any of these agents, CI connectors in any of these agents, CI connectors in any of these agents, right? So MCP won.

right? So MCP won. right? So MCP won. And so, inspired by David's talk, uh And so, inspired by David's talk, uh And so, inspired by David's talk, uh today uh I have a similar talk uh which today uh I have a similar talk uh which today uh I have a similar talk uh which is called X 402 isn't good is called X 402 isn't good is called X 402 isn't good yet. yet. yet. And in that talk, I would like to argue, And in that talk, I would like to argue, And in that talk, I would like to argue, you know, that uh while X 402 is very you know, that uh while X 402 is very you know, that uh while X 402 is very exciting technology, it has also still exciting technology, it has also still exciting technology, it has also still some rough edges, you know. And perhaps some rough edges, you know. And perhaps some rough edges, you know. And perhaps if I do it as well, we'll also build one if I do it as well, we'll also build one if I do it as well, we'll also build one of the best integrations with our X 402 of the best integrations with our X 402 of the best integrations with our X 402 on the market like Sentry did with MCP. on the market like Sentry did with MCP. on the market like Sentry did with MCP. My name is Jan Černý. I'm the founder My name is Jan Černý. I'm the founder My name is Jan Černý. I'm the founder and CEO of Apify. And uh for those who and CEO of Apify. And uh for those who and CEO of Apify. And uh for those who don't know, Apify is the largest don't know, Apify is the largest don't know, Apify is the largest marketplace of tools for AI. marketplace of tools for AI. marketplace of tools for AI. Uh Uh Uh we have about 45,000 of these tools. Uh we have about 45,000 of these tools. Uh we have about 45,000 of these tools. Uh we call them actors. we call them actors. we call them actors. And they are spending use cases like, And they are spending use cases like, And they are spending use cases like, you know, extraction of data from social you know, extraction of data from social you know, extraction of data from social media sites, e-commerce, hospitality, media sites, e-commerce, hospitality, media sites, e-commerce, hospitality, travel, search engines, maps, but over travel, search engines, maps, but over travel, search engines, maps, but over time also like time also like time also like AI agents or agentic use cases, you AI agents or agentic use cases, you AI agents or agentic use cases, you know, different automations and so on, know, different automations and so on, know, different automations and so on, right? right? right? And some of these tools, some of these And some of these tools, some of these And some of these tools, some of these actors are built by our community, some actors are built by our community, some actors are built by our community, some are built by us, and our community is is are built by us, and our community is is are built by us, and our community is is making now more than $1 million per making now more than $1 million per making now more than $1 million per month on on payouts by selling these month on on payouts by selling these month on on payouts by selling these tools, right? So tools, right? So tools, right? So they build the tools, we sell them to to they build the tools, we sell them to to they build the tools, we sell them to to to users, and you know, we pass the to users, and you know, we pass the to users, and you know, we pass the money to them. And so it's a thriving money to them. And so it's a thriving money to them. And so it's a thriving marketplace.

marketplace. marketplace. And I guess by now everybody understands And I guess by now everybody understands And I guess by now everybody understands like why we are so excited about agentic like why we are so excited about agentic like why we are so excited about agentic payments, right? Because we really want payments, right? Because we really want payments, right? Because we really want our tools to be easily accessible to our tools to be easily accessible to our tools to be easily accessible to agents, like wherever they are, with agents, like wherever they are, with agents, like wherever they are, with whatever protocol is out there. whatever protocol is out there. whatever protocol is out there. Uh just 2 days ago we launched uh Uh just 2 days ago we launched uh Uh just 2 days ago we launched uh together with with Coinbase our our XYO together with with Coinbase our our XYO together with with Coinbase our our XYO 2 integration. 2 integration. 2 integration. Uh I would say the the launch went Uh I would say the the launch went Uh I would say the the launch went pretty viral. We got like 1 million pretty viral. We got like 1 million pretty viral. We got like 1 million views. views. views. Uh Uh Uh and and and before before this launch, there were before before this launch, there were before before this launch, there were about like 2,000 tools available on the about like 2,000 tools available on the about like 2,000 tools available on the on the agentic uh on the agentic uh on the agentic uh market uh basically on XYO XYO 2. market uh basically on XYO XYO 2. market uh basically on XYO XYO 2. We brought another 20,000 tools. So We brought another 20,000 tools. So We brought another 20,000 tools. So basically we 10X 10X the size of the of basically we 10X 10X the size of the of basically we 10X 10X the size of the of the agentic market uh on XYO XYO 2. So the agentic market uh on XYO XYO 2. So the agentic market uh on XYO XYO 2. So this is very exciting for us and I I we this is very exciting for us and I I we this is very exciting for us and I I we we believe also for the community. we believe also for the community. we believe also for the community. And actually we're very excited about And actually we're very excited about And actually we're very excited about this topic like long term. So actually this topic like long term. So actually this topic like long term. So actually last year here at AI Engineer World's last year here at AI Engineer World's last year here at AI Engineer World's Fair, I was the only one talking about Fair, I was the only one talking about Fair, I was the only one talking about the agentic commerce and agentic economy the agentic commerce and agentic economy the agentic commerce and agentic economy in general. in general. in general. And really argued that that like in a And really argued that that like in a And really argued that that like in a couple of years, like the most most of couple of years, like the most most of couple of years, like the most most of the economic economic activity in the the economic economic activity in the the economic economic activity in the world will be done autonomously between world will be done autonomously between world will be done autonomously between agents.

agents. agents. And actually it looks like uh And actually it looks like uh And actually it looks like uh uh uh uh really really really uh uh uh it picked up. Uh I think like now it picked up. Uh I think like now it picked up. Uh I think like now everybody understands that agents, in everybody understands that agents, in everybody understands that agents, in order to get work done or like longer order to get work done or like longer order to get work done or like longer jobs without human intervention, they jobs without human intervention, they jobs without human intervention, they will actually need to have budget as will actually need to have budget as will actually need to have budget as well, right? It's It's not like well, right? It's It's not like well, right? It's It's not like you can do a lot of things in this world you can do a lot of things in this world you can do a lot of things in this world without without money. And once agents, without without money. And once agents, without without money. And once agents, you know, can be trusted with money, you know, can be trusted with money, you know, can be trusted with money, they will complete like far longer and, they will complete like far longer and, they will complete like far longer and, you know, more complex tasks than they you know, more complex tasks than they you know, more complex tasks than they can do now. So, obviously, a lot of can do now. So, obviously, a lot of can do now. So, obviously, a lot of people understand this people understand this people understand this across the industry. across the industry. across the industry. So, over the past year or so, we saw a So, over the past year or so, we saw a So, over the past year or so, we saw a lot of new standards or agentic payments lot of new standards or agentic payments lot of new standards or agentic payments protocol coming to the market because, protocol coming to the market because, protocol coming to the market because, obviously, every player in finance or or obviously, every player in finance or or obviously, every player in finance or or payments is very excited about this payments is very excited about this payments is very excited about this opportunity because everybody wants to opportunity because everybody wants to opportunity because everybody wants to get a part of this of this like huge get a part of this of this like huge get a part of this of this like huge future future future agentic economy and agentic economy and agentic economy and and transaction volume. and transaction volume. and transaction volume. So, first was L402. So, first was L402. So, first was L402. It was like in mid 2020. It was like in mid 2020. It was like in mid 2020. But then, MasterCard Agent Pay, we have But then, MasterCard Agent Pay, we have But then, MasterCard Agent Pay, we have X242 like Coinbase in my last year, KY X242 like Coinbase in my last year, KY X242 like Coinbase in my last year, KY Pay from Skyfire with Visa, Pay from Skyfire with Visa, Pay from Skyfire with Visa, API 2 by Google, ACP by OpenAI and API 2 by Google, ACP by OpenAI and API 2 by Google, ACP by OpenAI and Stripe, Tab by Visa, Stripe, Tab by Visa, Stripe, Tab by Visa, UCP by Google and Shopify, ACTP by UCP by Google and Shopify, ACTP by UCP by Google and Shopify, ACTP by Alipay, MPP by Stripe and Tempol, AMP by Alipay, MPP by Stripe and Tempol, AMP by Alipay, MPP by Stripe and Tempol, AMP by Alipay, Apple by UnionPay, APP by OKX, Alipay, Apple by UnionPay, APP by OKX, Alipay, Apple by UnionPay, APP by OKX, and finally, Agent Pay for Machines by and finally, Agent Pay for Machines by and finally, Agent Pay for Machines by MasterCard. You can see this is really MasterCard. You can see this is really MasterCard. You can see this is really becoming a heated battleground becoming a heated battleground becoming a heated battleground and for the future of the agentic and for the future of the agentic and for the future of the agentic commerce.

commerce. commerce. And [snorts] And [snorts] And [snorts] it's really hard to sort of keep track it's really hard to sort of keep track it's really hard to sort of keep track of all the standards of all the standards of all the standards and all the technologies. We're trying and all the technologies. We're trying and all the technologies. We're trying to. to. to. But, I would say for crypto world, But, I would say for crypto world, But, I would say for crypto world, actually, Swix asked all the speakers actually, Swix asked all the speakers actually, Swix asked all the speakers not to use sloppy AI-generated images in not to use sloppy AI-generated images in not to use sloppy AI-generated images in presentations, but I couldn't resist presentations, but I couldn't resist presentations, but I couldn't resist myself here. Um myself here. Um myself here. Um I think for crypto world, like the I think for crypto world, like the I think for crypto world, like the agentic commerce has been like super agentic commerce has been like super agentic commerce has been like super exciting news like because finally, exciting news like because finally, exciting news like because finally, there is like really solid use case for there is like really solid use case for there is like really solid use case for crypto except for like trading trading crypto except for like trading trading crypto except for like trading trading and gambling, buying illegal substances and gambling, buying illegal substances and gambling, buying illegal substances on marketplaces and hiding money away on marketplaces and hiding money away on marketplaces and hiding money away from your spouses, right? So, finally, from your spouses, right? So, finally, from your spouses, right? So, finally, agentic commerce really brings the like agentic commerce really brings the like agentic commerce really brings the like long-sought like use case for crypto long-sought like use case for crypto long-sought like use case for crypto that that I actually think is is pretty that that I actually think is is pretty that that I actually think is is pretty solid. And I'm not like a crypto bro solid. And I'm not like a crypto bro solid. And I'm not like a crypto bro myself. I I'm not holding anything. myself. I I'm not holding anything. myself. I I'm not holding anything. Actually, I was fairly skeptical to Actually, I was fairly skeptical to Actually, I was fairly skeptical to crypto all the time. crypto all the time. crypto all the time. But I feel that crypto is really well But I feel that crypto is really well But I feel that crypto is really well suited for agentic commerce or agentic suited for agentic commerce or agentic suited for agentic commerce or agentic uh payments. Why? Because the uh payments. Why? Because the uh payments. Why? Because the traditional payment methods traditional payment methods traditional payment methods uh designed for people are super uh designed for people are super uh designed for people are super expensive, right? And you know, expensive, right? And you know, expensive, right? And you know, uh like credit cards, PayPal, or you uh like credit cards, PayPal, or you uh like credit cards, PayPal, or you know, ACH and bank debit, they cannot be know, ACH and bank debit, they cannot be know, ACH and bank debit, they cannot be used for microtransactions. They are used for microtransactions. They are used for microtransactions. They are just very ineffective uh as we saw in just very ineffective uh as we saw in just very ineffective uh as we saw in previous presentation as well.

previous presentation as well. previous presentation as well. So, but there's another problem. So, but there's another problem. So, but there's another problem. There are buyer disputes. Like anybody There are buyer disputes. Like anybody There are buyer disputes. Like anybody who's selling things online, who's selling things online, who's selling things online, you know that uh there are some people you know that uh there are some people you know that uh there are some people who sort of like buy certain services who sort of like buy certain services who sort of like buy certain services from your website and then dispute the from your website and then dispute the from your website and then dispute the payment and ask for refund, you know, or payment and ask for refund, you know, or payment and ask for refund, you know, or or dispute it through their bank and you or dispute it through their bank and you or dispute it through their bank and you have to pay for that. Like have to pay for that. Like have to pay for that. Like in like traditional like well, human in like traditional like well, human in like traditional like well, human economy, economy, economy, there are some trust signals you can you there are some trust signals you can you there are some trust signals you can you you can do with the credit credit cards, you can do with the credit credit cards, you can do with the credit credit cards, you know, uh you know, uh you know, uh like Stripe and and others have like Stripe and and others have like Stripe and and others have different services to prevent fraud and different services to prevent fraud and different services to prevent fraud and so on. so on. so on. But in agentic interaction, like you But in agentic interaction, like you But in agentic interaction, like you really have no idea who the agent is. really have no idea who the agent is. really have no idea who the agent is. Like there's no agent identity. I mean, Like there's no agent identity. I mean, Like there's no agent identity. I mean, there are some standards being there are some standards being there are some standards being developed, but it's really not clear uh developed, but it's really not clear uh developed, but it's really not clear uh who are you transacting with. So, you who are you transacting with. So, you who are you transacting with. So, you just can't allow just can't allow just can't allow them to dispute the payments. You really them to dispute the payments. You really them to dispute the payments. You really need it it needs to be a one-way need it it needs to be a one-way need it it needs to be a one-way transaction and it needs to be like safe transaction and it needs to be like safe transaction and it needs to be like safe for you. for you. for you. Right? So, I think uh Right? So, I think uh Right? So, I think uh crypto is is is a super position for crypto is is is a super position for crypto is is is a super position for that. But also, there's important part that. But also, there's important part that. But also, there's important part uh uh uh crypto, if done well, is like truly crypto, if done well, is like truly crypto, if done well, is like truly decentralized blockchain where where no decentralized blockchain where where no decentralized blockchain where where no company has like majority of of, you company has like majority of of, you company has like majority of of, you know, of the of the of the of the vote know, of the of the of the of the vote know, of the of the of the of the vote in the network, in the network, in the network, it can be really decentralized and it it can be really decentralized and it it can be really decentralized and it can be like a public standard, you know, can be like a public standard, you know, can be like a public standard, you know, not owned by a single company who, for not owned by a single company who, for not owned by a single company who, for example, like Visa or MasterCard, sort example, like Visa or MasterCard, sort example, like Visa or MasterCard, sort of would abuse their dominant power, you of would abuse their dominant power, you of would abuse their dominant power, you know, to to extract fees from the from know, to to extract fees from the from know, to to extract fees from the from the from the system.

the from the system. the from the system. So, I am I'm very very bullish on crypto So, I am I'm very very bullish on crypto So, I am I'm very very bullish on crypto in this in this space and uh in this in this space and uh in this in this space and uh there are basically like currently two there are basically like currently two there are basically like currently two largest uh crypto payment uh providers largest uh crypto payment uh providers largest uh crypto payment uh providers for any payments. One is XRO2 from from for any payments. One is XRO2 from from for any payments. One is XRO2 from from Coinbase and second was in this MPP, Coinbase and second was in this MPP, Coinbase and second was in this MPP, machine payments protocol from Stripe. machine payments protocol from Stripe. machine payments protocol from Stripe. Looking at the stats uh just yesterday, Looking at the stats uh just yesterday, Looking at the stats uh just yesterday, uh XRO2 is like 20 times larger in the uh XRO2 is like 20 times larger in the uh XRO2 is like 20 times larger in the number of transactions and the the the number of transactions and the the the number of transactions and the the the the volume. the volume. the volume. Uh so, obviously, we went first with Uh so, obviously, we went first with Uh so, obviously, we went first with implementation of XRO2, but we added in implementation of XRO2, but we added in implementation of XRO2, but we added in MPP in the process as well. And today, MPP in the process as well. And today, MPP in the process as well. And today, I'm going to share like a bit of our I'm going to share like a bit of our I'm going to share like a bit of our experience. This was also presented in experience. This was also presented in experience. This was also presented in the slide before. Uh the slide before. Uh the slide before. Uh XRO2 builds on the XRO2 builds on the XRO2 builds on the uh status code introduced like more like uh status code introduced like more like uh status code introduced like more like almost 30 years ago in the original HTTP almost 30 years ago in the original HTTP almost 30 years ago in the original HTTP specification uh called 402 payment specification uh called 402 payment specification uh called 402 payment required. So, this status code was required. So, this status code was required. So, this status code was waiting for 30 years patiently waiting for 30 years patiently waiting for 30 years patiently for someone to pick it up. And for someone to pick it up. And for someone to pick it up. And obviously, Coinbase took that obviously, Coinbase took that obviously, Coinbase took that opportunity because obviously, it's opportunity because obviously, it's opportunity because obviously, it's great for marketing, you know, we're great for marketing, you know, we're great for marketing, you know, we're finally make uh internet money work. finally make uh internet money work. finally make uh internet money work. It's awesome. It's awesome. It's awesome. So, how it works? I'll just go quickly So, how it works? I'll just go quickly So, how it works? I'll just go quickly because we saw it in the last because we saw it in the last because we saw it in the last presentation as well. So, first, the presentation as well. So, first, the presentation as well. So, first, the client initiates like calls server with client initiates like calls server with client initiates like calls server with some API request. The server responds some API request. The server responds some API request. The server responds and actually, this is important part.

and actually, this is important part. and actually, this is important part. Specification enforces the server to Specification enforces the server to Specification enforces the server to respond 402 payment required. There is respond 402 payment required. There is respond 402 payment required. There is no other way to do that. It it needs to no other way to do that. It it needs to no other way to do that. It it needs to use the 402. use the 402. use the 402. Then, you know, the client creates a Then, you know, the client creates a Then, you know, the client creates a signature uh by basically withdrawing signature uh by basically withdrawing signature uh by basically withdrawing money from the wallet uh or you know, money from the wallet uh or you know, money from the wallet uh or you know, allocating the budget from from from the allocating the budget from from from the allocating the budget from from from the wallet. Sends uh the signature to the to wallet. Sends uh the signature to the to wallet. Sends uh the signature to the to the server. the server. the server. Oh, the server verifies with a Oh, the server verifies with a Oh, the server verifies with a facilitator, which can be like Coinbase, facilitator, which can be like Coinbase, facilitator, which can be like Coinbase, for example, whether the transaction is for example, whether the transaction is for example, whether the transaction is correct. It gets uh confirmation that correct. It gets uh confirmation that correct. It gets uh confirmation that the transaction is is right. the transaction is is right. the transaction is is right. And then, it's supposed to do the work, And then, it's supposed to do the work, And then, it's supposed to do the work, right? But there is a problem there. right? But there is a problem there. right? But there is a problem there. I'll get to that uh in a second. I'll get to that uh in a second. I'll get to that uh in a second. And after the work is done, uh And after the work is done, uh And after the work is done, uh you send a transaction you send a you send a transaction you send a you send a transaction you send a request to the facilitator to settle, request to the facilitator to settle, request to the facilitator to settle, which means like, you know, physically which means like, you know, physically which means like, you know, physically transfer the money to to your own transfer the money to to your own transfer the money to to your own wallet. wallet. wallet. And then facilitator performs operation And then facilitator performs operation And then facilitator performs operation on the blockchain, transaction is on the blockchain, transaction is on the blockchain, transaction is confirmed, everything is settled, all confirmed, everything is settled, all confirmed, everything is settled, all good. But there is a problem here. good. But there is a problem here. good. But there is a problem here. In this moment, like until until the In this moment, like until until the In this moment, like until until the transaction is is actually submitted to transaction is is actually submitted to transaction is is actually submitted to the blockchain, the blockchain, the blockchain, the buyer can use the same wallet and the buyer can use the same wallet and the buyer can use the same wallet and same money to other transaction.

same money to other transaction. same money to other transaction. Basically, there is like nothing Basically, there is like nothing Basically, there is like nothing preventing the the client from double preventing the the client from double preventing the the client from double spending. So, you know, uh spending. So, you know, uh spending. So, you know, uh it can just create like 1,000 signatures it can just create like 1,000 signatures it can just create like 1,000 signatures like that, send it to 1,000 requests, like that, send it to 1,000 requests, like that, send it to 1,000 requests, and then, you know, like um and then, you know, like um and then, you know, like um maybe it will not get the result, but maybe it will not get the result, but maybe it will not get the result, but let's say if it's like a simple API let's say if it's like a simple API let's say if it's like a simple API call, call, call, you know, where there is like a like you know, where there is like a like you know, where there is like a like zero marginal cost for you as a zero marginal cost for you as a zero marginal cost for you as a provider, you can do it. You can do the provider, you can do it. You can do the provider, you can do it. You can do the work, you know, before uh you settle. work, you know, before uh you settle. work, you know, before uh you settle. But imagine there is like some But imagine there is like some But imagine there is like some non-trivial work, or maybe you have to non-trivial work, or maybe you have to non-trivial work, or maybe you have to pay external service, and then you pay external service, and then you pay external service, and then you realize, "Oh, the money is gone, right?" realize, "Oh, the money is gone, right?" realize, "Oh, the money is gone, right?" Uh Uh Uh the the the client skipped out on the the the the client skipped out on the the the the client skipped out on the bill, which is not great. So, bill, which is not great. So, bill, which is not great. So, there is a work around that. You can there is a work around that. You can there is a work around that. You can actually uh just do the work after the actually uh just do the work after the actually uh just do the work after the transaction is settled. You just need to transaction is settled. You just need to transaction is settled. You just need to make sure you actually get the work make sure you actually get the work make sure you actually get the work done, you don't fail, and so on, because done, you don't fail, and so on, because done, you don't fail, and so on, because then the clients would be pretty angry, then the clients would be pretty angry, then the clients would be pretty angry, I guess. I guess. I guess. But there is a work around for this, and But there is a work around for this, and But there is a work around for this, and then you send like 200 OK and payment then you send like 200 OK and payment then you send like 200 OK and payment response, all good. response, all good. response, all good. So, So, So, there is a problem though. Like um there is a problem though. Like um there is a problem though. Like um as I showed before, like uh the standard as I showed before, like uh the standard as I showed before, like uh the standard requires HTTP 402 uh as a first response requires HTTP 402 uh as a first response requires HTTP 402 uh as a first response from the server.

from the server. from the server. But MCP Alt requires HTTP 401. But MCP Alt requires HTTP 401. But MCP Alt requires HTTP 401. So, there are like two conflicts in the So, there are like two conflicts in the So, there are like two conflicts in the standards, and you know, each of them standards, and you know, each of them standards, and you know, each of them are actually enforcing it, and you are actually enforcing it, and you are actually enforcing it, and you cannot like sort of like, you know, cannot like sort of like, you know, cannot like sort of like, you know, return two error codes or two status return two error codes or two status return two error codes or two status codes at the same time. codes at the same time. codes at the same time. So, how do you companies resolve that? So, how do you companies resolve that? So, how do you companies resolve that? Well, quite often they create a Well, quite often they create a Well, quite often they create a dedicated like hostname host uh like dedicated like hostname host uh like dedicated like hostname host uh like let's say x402.alchema.com let's say x402.alchema.com let's say x402.alchema.com to serve just the agentic payments to serve just the agentic payments to serve just the agentic payments gateway. So, they implement basically a gateway. So, they implement basically a gateway. So, they implement basically a new API host just to serve the the HTTP new API host just to serve the the HTTP new API host just to serve the the HTTP payments and then they have like payments and then they have like payments and then they have like Sorry, mcp.alchemy.com Sorry, mcp.alchemy.com Sorry, mcp.alchemy.com and maybe mpp.alchemy.com, right? But it and maybe mpp.alchemy.com, right? But it and maybe mpp.alchemy.com, right? But it sounds like anti-pattern. Why would you sounds like anti-pattern. Why would you sounds like anti-pattern. Why would you have to duplicate like your have to duplicate like your have to duplicate like your API host for different payment API host for different payment API host for different payment providers? It's like providers? It's like providers? It's like imagine like you had to like amazon.com imagine like you had to like amazon.com imagine like you had to like amazon.com for different like credit cards. You had for different like credit cards. You had for different like credit cards. You had like 20 different Amazons. Like it like 20 different Amazons. Like it like 20 different Amazons. Like it doesn't make sense, right? So doesn't make sense, right? So doesn't make sense, right? So So, So, So, I think it is like one of the I think it is like one of the I think it is like one of the weaknesses. It's like I I understand weaknesses. It's like I I understand weaknesses. It's like I I understand like using HTTP 402 is great for like using HTTP 402 is great for like using HTTP 402 is great for marketing, but marketing, but marketing, but I think there should be in protocol some I think there should be in protocol some I think there should be in protocol some way to circumvent that and use use just way to circumvent that and use use just way to circumvent that and use use just purely headers, you know? So for purely headers, you know? So for purely headers, you know? So for example, the payment payment required example, the payment payment required example, the payment payment required header without the the the status code.

header without the the the status code. header without the the the status code. And then And then And then originally when X-Request-ID was originally when X-Request-ID was originally when X-Request-ID was created, it was designed for created, it was designed for created, it was designed for like fixed payments. Uh like fixed payments. Uh like fixed payments. Uh The the first payment scheme they The the first payment scheme they The the first payment scheme they introduced introduced introduced was called exact and it's like for was called exact and it's like for was called exact and it's like for simple API calls. Like there's like a simple API calls. Like there's like a simple API calls. Like there's like a fixed fee per transaction, fixed fee per fixed fee per transaction, fixed fee per fixed fee per transaction, fixed fee per per call, which is great for I don't per call, which is great for I don't per call, which is great for I don't know simple APIs. But unfortunately, know simple APIs. But unfortunately, know simple APIs. But unfortunately, Apify actors are tools on the Apify actors are tools on the Apify actors are tools on the marketplace. They typically perform bad marketplace. They typically perform bad marketplace. They typically perform bad jobs and you know, they can run for, you jobs and you know, they can run for, you jobs and you know, they can run for, you know, a few seconds, but they can also know, a few seconds, but they can also know, a few seconds, but they can also run for a few hours and consume a lot of run for a few hours and consume a lot of run for a few hours and consume a lot of resources on the way. They are like resources on the way. They are like resources on the way. They are like typically like built typically like built typically like built as-you-go kind of like meter billing. as-you-go kind of like meter billing. as-you-go kind of like meter billing. So how to do that? Like how to put this So how to do that? Like how to put this So how to do that? Like how to put this on X-Request-ID 2? So in May 2025, on X-Request-ID 2? So in May 2025, on X-Request-ID 2? So in May 2025, Coinbase introduced Coinbase introduced Coinbase introduced X-Request-ID 2 with exact payment X-Request-ID 2 with exact payment X-Request-ID 2 with exact payment scheme. In December 2025, they announced scheme. In December 2025, they announced scheme. In December 2025, they announced the version two of the protocol, which the version two of the protocol, which the version two of the protocol, which was promising the up to payments payment was promising the up to payments payment was promising the up to payments payment scheme to kind of fix this problem of scheme to kind of fix this problem of scheme to kind of fix this problem of like meter billing. like meter billing. like meter billing. But it it took actually another like But it it took actually another like But it it took actually another like half a year almost half a year almost half a year almost to release the the up to finally. It was to release the the up to finally. It was to release the the up to finally. It was just like two or three months ago. So we just like two or three months ago. So we just like two or three months ago. So we were super excited about that. We were were super excited about that. We were were super excited about that. We were like finally like finally like finally we can make this work for our services.

we can make this work for our services. we can make this work for our services. But then we realized actually the same But then we realized actually the same But then we realized actually the same double spending problem which is on on double spending problem which is on on double spending problem which is on on on exact is also with with up to. I on exact is also with with up to. I on exact is also with with up to. I mean, up to it was just a small sort of mean, up to it was just a small sort of mean, up to it was just a small sort of like improvement to the protocol where like improvement to the protocol where like improvement to the protocol where when you, you know, call the tool, you when you, you know, call the tool, you when you, you know, call the tool, you say, "Oh, my maximum is $5." And then say, "Oh, my maximum is $5." And then say, "Oh, my maximum is $5." And then the the the server can charge anything the the the server can charge anything the the the server can charge anything up to $5. But it doesn't prevent the up to $5. But it doesn't prevent the up to $5. But it doesn't prevent the double-spending problem. So, basically, double-spending problem. So, basically, double-spending problem. So, basically, we are sort of stuck again. So, you we are sort of stuck again. So, you we are sort of stuck again. So, you know, we have to go back to the drawing know, we have to go back to the drawing know, we have to go back to the drawing boards and figure like how to do that. boards and figure like how to do that. boards and figure like how to do that. And so, one way we we did it was we just And so, one way we we did it was we just And so, one way we we did it was we just use exact payment scheme to kind of like use exact payment scheme to kind of like use exact payment scheme to kind of like fixed fixed fixed uh like charge a fixed payment. And then uh like charge a fixed payment. And then uh like charge a fixed payment. And then after the the the the job is done, we we after the the the the job is done, we we after the the the the job is done, we we would like refund the the the wallet would like refund the the the wallet would like refund the the the wallet with the with the leftover money, with the with the leftover money, with the with the leftover money, basically, the money that basically, the money that basically, the money that that wasn't spent. I mean, that worked. that wasn't spent. I mean, that worked. that wasn't spent. I mean, that worked. But uh But uh But uh so, you charge, you do the work, you so, you charge, you do the work, you so, you charge, you do the work, you refund the remainder. But that means refund the remainder. But that means refund the remainder. But that means like there's suddenly like two like there's suddenly like two like there's suddenly like two blockchain transactions. That means like blockchain transactions. That means like blockchain transactions. That means like uh uh uh there's a time, you know, to to settle there's a time, you know, to to settle there's a time, you know, to to settle those transactions. There might be like those transactions. There might be like those transactions. There might be like some fees associated with that and so some fees associated with that and so some fees associated with that and so on.

on. on. And also, the clients will need to trust And also, the clients will need to trust And also, the clients will need to trust the server the server the server to kind of like, "Hey, to kind of like, "Hey, to kind of like, "Hey, I give you the money, but you give it to I give you the money, but you give it to I give you the money, but you give it to me back, right?" But I think that that me back, right?" But I think that that me back, right?" But I think that that that's that's a minor issue. But it just that's that's a minor issue. But it just that's that's a minor issue. But it just feels somehow clunky. Like, why would we feels somehow clunky. Like, why would we feels somehow clunky. Like, why would we need to do these workarounds, you know? need to do these workarounds, you know? need to do these workarounds, you know? This protocol should support these This protocol should support these This protocol should support these things out of the box. things out of the box. things out of the box. So, just 2 months ago, uh So, just 2 months ago, uh So, just 2 months ago, uh Coinbase introduced like new payment Coinbase introduced like new payment Coinbase introduced like new payment scheme uh which is called batch scheme uh which is called batch scheme uh which is called batch settlement, which looks very promising. settlement, which looks very promising. settlement, which looks very promising. We haven't implemented it yet, so we'll We haven't implemented it yet, so we'll We haven't implemented it yet, so we'll report soon on that. But basically, just report soon on that. But basically, just report soon on that. But basically, just quickly, it works like So, first, the quickly, it works like So, first, the quickly, it works like So, first, the clients like deposit some money. So, clients like deposit some money. So, clients like deposit some money. So, basically, basically, basically, it's actually like like real transaction it's actually like like real transaction it's actually like like real transaction on blockchain using some uh Ethereum on blockchain using some uh Ethereum on blockchain using some uh Ethereum virtual machine black magic. Basically, virtual machine black magic. Basically, virtual machine black magic. Basically, uh the money is put in the escrow. uh the money is put in the escrow. uh the money is put in the escrow. And then And then And then the the client gets back a voucher like the the client gets back a voucher like the the client gets back a voucher like from the server. Say, "Hey, here is some from the server. Say, "Hey, here is some from the server. Say, "Hey, here is some cryptographic voucher, and you can use cryptographic voucher, and you can use cryptographic voucher, and you can use it to sign like microtransaction as part it to sign like microtransaction as part it to sign like microtransaction as part of this batch." of this batch." of this batch." And then And then And then like the client sends sends requests, like the client sends sends requests, like the client sends sends requests, for example, like API calls or, you for example, like API calls or, you for example, like API calls or, you know, for like individual tokens, know, for like individual tokens, know, for like individual tokens, whatever, and uh use this like passes whatever, and uh use this like passes whatever, and uh use this like passes this voucher to sign the those like a this voucher to sign the those like a this voucher to sign the those like a micro payments. But this transactions micro payments. But this transactions micro payments. But this transactions are the basically off-chain. They are are the basically off-chain. They are are the basically off-chain. They are just like sort of like cryptographically just like sort of like cryptographically just like sort of like cryptographically guaranteed locally, but you don't need guaranteed locally, but you don't need guaranteed locally, but you don't need to like write this like to the to the to to like write this like to the to the to to like write this like to the to the to the blockchain, which again is the blockchain, which again is the blockchain, which again is inefficient, slow, you know, uh inefficient, slow, you know, uh inefficient, slow, you know, uh expensive. And then at some point, expensive. And then at some point, expensive. And then at some point, you're like, "Hey, I I I accumulated a you're like, "Hey, I I I accumulated a you're like, "Hey, I I I accumulated a lot of these like micro transactions, so lot of these like micro transactions, so lot of these like micro transactions, so I just like settle them in batch." And I just like settle them in batch." And I just like settle them in batch." And then like you basically perform the then like you basically perform the then like you basically perform the transaction on blockchain. And then you transaction on blockchain. And then you transaction on blockchain. And then you can do this a couple of times and can do this a couple of times and can do this a couple of times and eventually refund the rest of the money eventually refund the rest of the money eventually refund the rest of the money like sort of like release the escrow, like sort of like release the escrow, like sort of like release the escrow, right? So actually this looks really

right? So actually this looks really right? So actually this looks really cool, very exciting. We'll cool, very exciting. We'll cool, very exciting. We'll we're currently working on implementing we're currently working on implementing we're currently working on implementing it now, so we'll see. it now, so we'll see. it now, so we'll see. But so how did we resolve like all this But so how did we resolve like all this But so how did we resolve like all this to make it work, right? So we didn't to make it work, right? So we didn't to make it work, right? So we didn't really want to create like new new really want to create like new new really want to create like new new endpoints for different payment endpoints for different payment endpoints for different payment services. services. services. We didn't want to like the like hack the We didn't want to like the like hack the We didn't want to like the like hack the variable usage, you know, to our variable usage, you know, to our variable usage, you know, to our services. And also, we really don't want services. And also, we really don't want services. And also, we really don't want to like to like to like tweak too much our API because we have tweak too much our API because we have tweak too much our API because we have like tens of thousands of customers like tens of thousands of customers like tens of thousands of customers depending on that API. So we just can't depending on that API. So we just can't depending on that API. So we just can't like sort of like, you know, do whatever like sort of like, you know, do whatever like sort of like, you know, do whatever like new like new like new agentic payment standard is out there, agentic payment standard is out there, agentic payment standard is out there, just implement it right away. just implement it right away. just implement it right away. So so kind of to fix these problems, So so kind of to fix these problems, So so kind of to fix these problems, let me introduce you let me introduce you let me introduce you let me introduce our newest service on let me introduce our newest service on let me introduce our newest service on Appify, which is called agi.appify.com. Appify, which is called agi.appify.com. Appify, which is called agi.appify.com. And AGI And AGI And AGI is not is not is not what you mean it is. It's actually it what you mean it is. It's actually it what you mean it is. It's actually it stands for agent general interface. So stands for agent general interface. So stands for agent general interface. So instead of like application programming instead of like application programming instead of like application programming interface, we have agent general interface, we have agent general interface, we have agent general interface that can change anytime but interface that can change anytime but interface that can change anytime but because it's used by agents, so they're because it's used by agents, so they're because it's used by agents, so they're flexible, right? And flexible, right? And flexible, right? And on AGI, it's just a simple website with on AGI, it's just a simple website with on AGI, it's just a simple website with like one markdown document. It's not like one markdown document. It's not like one markdown document. It's not designed for people, so it kind of looks designed for people, so it kind of looks designed for people, so it kind of looks ugly, but it's okay. And there's ugly, but it's okay. And there's ugly, but it's okay. And there's instructions for agents like, "Hey, how instructions for agents like, "Hey, how instructions for agents like, "Hey, how can you actually can you actually can you actually buy things on Appify yourself through buy things on Appify yourself through buy things on Appify yourself through Xapo 2, MPP?" We can iterate quickly on Xapo 2, MPP?" We can iterate quickly on Xapo 2, MPP?" We can iterate quickly on this on this on this website or on this this on this on this website or on this this on this on this website or on this service because, you know, agents can service because, you know, agents can service because, you know, agents can pick up new version. It's not like fixed pick up new version. It's not like fixed pick up new version. It's not like fixed like API like API like API needs to be basically, you know, needs to be basically, you know, needs to be basically, you know, backwards compatible all the time.

backwards compatible all the time. backwards compatible all the time. And the way it works is like the agent And the way it works is like the agent And the way it works is like the agent comes to agent.apify.com comes to agent.apify.com comes to agent.apify.com gets basically can buy a prepaid token. gets basically can buy a prepaid token. gets basically can buy a prepaid token. So basically they say like, "Hey, here's So basically they say like, "Hey, here's So basically they say like, "Hey, here's $5. Give me Give me a Apify token." We $5. Give me Give me a Apify token." We $5. Give me Give me a Apify token." We give them like Apify token back and then give them like Apify token back and then give them like Apify token back and then they can use the Apify token they can use the Apify token they can use the Apify token through our normal API or through MCP to through our normal API or through MCP to through our normal API or through MCP to run our jobs and services, you know, run our jobs and services, you know, run our jobs and services, you know, normally. normally. normally. And it it works pretty well. And it it works pretty well. And it it works pretty well. There is like no skill required. You There is like no skill required. You There is like no skill required. You just like point your agent to just like point your agent to just like point your agent to agent.apify.com. It picks it up. agent.apify.com. It picks it up. agent.apify.com. It picks it up. And I have here like a short demo. And I have here like a short demo. And I have here like a short demo. We're running out of time. So this is We're running out of time. So this is We're running out of time. So this is just like example how it works like. just like example how it works like. just like example how it works like. Actually, the X road ecosystem is like Actually, the X road ecosystem is like Actually, the X road ecosystem is like really early so that even, you know, really early so that even, you know, really early so that even, you know, we have to build our own like local we have to build our own like local we have to build our own like local wallet wallet wallet tool which you can like create like tool which you can like create like tool which you can like create like local like cryptographic key to charge, local like cryptographic key to charge, local like cryptographic key to charge, you know, with money and show QR code. you know, with money and show QR code. you know, with money and show QR code. Like I mean these things are still not Like I mean these things are still not Like I mean these things are still not not not not existing. I mean the not not not existing. I mean the not not not existing. I mean the ecosystem is like super super early. ecosystem is like super super early. ecosystem is like super super early. So So So I have local wallet with $10. Then I I have local wallet with $10. Then I I have local wallet with $10. Then I call like IGI.apify.com call like IGI.apify.com call like IGI.apify.com allocate like token with $1. I get back allocate like token with $1. I get back allocate like token with $1. I get back 402 payment required. So there is like 402 payment required. So there is like 402 payment required. So there is like this like super long like payment this like super long like payment this like super long like payment required signature.

required signature. required signature. I use Apify I use Apify I use Apify I use the I use our MCPC just like MCPC I use the I use our MCPC just like MCPC I use the I use our MCPC just like MCPC client to sign client to sign client to sign the payment and then I can send the the payment and then I can send the the payment and then I can send the Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh oh oh. Oh oh oh. Oh oh oh. This demo didn't work as expected. This demo didn't work as expected. This demo didn't work as expected. Here we go. Well, anyway, I have 1 minute left. Well, anyway, I have 1 minute left. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Demo more come later. Sorry about that. >> Demo more come later. Sorry about that. >> Demo more come later. Sorry about that. So, to conclude my presentation, like So, to conclude my presentation, like So, to conclude my presentation, like really like try it out and like try to really like try it out and like try to really like try it out and like try to build try try to use it like actually I build try try to use it like actually I build try try to use it like actually I try I tried to use it for the first time try I tried to use it for the first time try I tried to use it for the first time like a couple of weeks ago because I like a couple of weeks ago because I like a couple of weeks ago because I always thought that oh my god it's always thought that oh my god it's always thought that oh my god it's somehow complicated, you know, there is somehow complicated, you know, there is somehow complicated, you know, there is a lot of this like weird crypto lingo, a lot of this like weird crypto lingo, a lot of this like weird crypto lingo, you know, like I have I like I don't you know, like I have I like I don't you know, like I have I like I don't know what it what it means. But actually know what it what it means. But actually know what it what it means. But actually it's really really simple to to play it's really really simple to to play it's really really simple to to play with it. You can with it. You can with it. You can you know, get to get up and running in you know, get to get up and running in you know, get to get up and running in like 10 minutes. And uh like 10 minutes. And uh like 10 minutes. And uh it's still super early. Uh it's still super early. Uh it's still super early. Uh I think there's like $1 million I think there's like $1 million I think there's like $1 million transaction volume like per month. Like transaction volume like per month. Like transaction volume like per month. Like this is nothing, right? Like the economy this is nothing, right? Like the economy this is nothing, right? Like the economy is much much bigger. But I think it will is much much bigger. But I think it will is much much bigger. But I think it will sooner ramp up. And I think sooner ramp up. And I think sooner ramp up. And I think once uh really this like era of like uh once uh really this like era of like uh once uh really this like era of like uh token subsidies will end, I mean when token subsidies will end, I mean when token subsidies will end, I mean when the when you really will have to pay for the when you really will have to pay for the when you really will have to pay for the tokens, you know, that your agents the tokens, you know, that your agents the tokens, you know, that your agents consume, I think suddenly this decision consume, I think suddenly this decision consume, I think suddenly this decision whether to build or buy will, you know, whether to build or buy will, you know, whether to build or buy will, you know, make more economic sense actually to buy make more economic sense actually to buy make more economic sense actually to buy external, you know, services for a lot external, you know, services for a lot external, you know, services for a lot of things rather than build from of things rather than build from of things rather than build from scratch. And I think at this time really scratch. And I think at this time really scratch. And I think at this time really the agentic payments will explode and uh

the agentic payments will explode and uh the agentic payments will explode and uh very soon uh um very soon uh um very soon uh um uh the agentic commerce might uh uh the agentic commerce might uh uh the agentic commerce might uh overtake the normal commerce. overtake the normal commerce. overtake the normal commerce. Thanks a lot for your attention and Thanks a lot for your attention and Thanks a lot for your attention and please come uh to join us uh please come uh to join us uh please come uh to join us uh in our booth. And actually I have in our booth. And actually I have in our booth. And actually I have another talk coming up in 2 hours uh another talk coming up in 2 hours uh another talk coming up in 2 hours uh about MCP and CLI, so you can check that about MCP and CLI, so you can check that about MCP and CLI, so you can check that one as well in Expo stage two. one as well in Expo stage two. one as well in Expo stage two. Thank you. [applause]