How To Build Better Lists With Buyer Personas | Hunter.io

Hi to everyone that is joining us from Hi to everyone that is joining us from around the world. I'm James the head of around the world. I'm James the head of around the world. I'm James the head of marketing here at Hunter. marketing here at Hunter. marketing here at Hunter. I'm just going to let everyone join us I'm just going to let everyone join us I'm just going to let everyone join us over the next 60 seconds. over the next 60 seconds. over the next 60 seconds. While we wait for that, if you can just While we wait for that, if you can just While we wait for that, if you can just let us know in the chat in the bottom let us know in the chat in the bottom let us know in the chat in the bottom right where you are joining us from right where you are joining us from right where you are joining us from today and today and today and I will go first. I'm joining us from I will go first. I'm joining us from I will go first. I'm joining us from Ashburn, Virginia in the United States Ashburn, Virginia in the United States Ashburn, Virginia in the United States by way of England as you can tell by the by way of England as you can tell by the by way of England as you can tell by the accent. accent. accent. >> [laughter] >> Hey everyone, I'm Rui. I'm joining in >> Hey everyone, I'm Rui. I'm joining in from from from unusually cloudy Porto in Portugal. >> Hey everyone, I'm Oliver joining from >> Hey everyone, I'm Oliver joining from Cleveland, Ohio and James, if you didn't Cleveland, Ohio and James, if you didn't Cleveland, Ohio and James, if you didn't say it, I definitely just thought that say it, I definitely just thought that say it, I definitely just thought that was a Virginia accent. was a Virginia accent. was a Virginia accent. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It is everyone. >> It is everyone. >> It is everyone. >> I am of course Matt, CEO of Hunter. >> I am of course Matt, CEO of Hunter. >> I am of course Matt, CEO of Hunter. Happy to be here and Happy to be here and >> [clears throat] >> Oliver, I appreciate your lighting >> Oliver, I appreciate your lighting >> Oliver, I appreciate your lighting because this is the most tan I think because this is the most tan I think because this is the most tan I think I've ever looked compared to someone. So I've ever looked compared to someone. So I've ever looked compared to someone. So I appreciate it. This is great. Usually I appreciate it. This is great. Usually I appreciate it. This is great. Usually I have to like hold my own against Rui I have to like hold my own against Rui I have to like hold my own against Rui which doesn't work cuz he has He lives which doesn't work cuz he has He lives which doesn't work cuz he has He lives somewhere where they're allowed to have somewhere where they're allowed to have somewhere where they're allowed to have sun. Rui, almost what, year round is it?

sun. Rui, almost what, year round is it? sun. Rui, almost what, year round is it? >> Yeah. I know it's it's mind-blowing for >> Yeah. I know it's it's mind-blowing for >> Yeah. I know it's it's mind-blowing for you but yeah. you but yeah. you but yeah. >> Foreign concept, 100% yeah. >> Foreign concept, 100% yeah. >> Foreign concept, 100% yeah. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, don't have much in Cleveland, Ohio this don't have much in Cleveland, Ohio this don't have much in Cleveland, Ohio this time of year so might have to dim the time of year so might have to dim the time of year so might have to dim the lights a little bit catch up. [laughter] Well, Well, everybody's pouring in. Good to see everybody's pouring in. Good to see everybody's pouring in. Good to see everybody representing. everybody representing. everybody representing. Speaking, San Diego is representing Speaking, San Diego is representing Speaking, San Diego is representing today. We've got lots of folks from the today. We've got lots of folks from the today. We've got lots of folks from the from the best area for Comic-Cons that from the best area for Comic-Cons that from the best area for Comic-Cons that I've ever experienced. Well done. I've ever experienced. Well done. I've ever experienced. Well done. Sweden, nice. >> All right. So, um >> All right. So, um just a little housekeeping uh before I I just a little housekeeping uh before I I just a little housekeeping uh before I I disappear and hand over to Matt. Uh so, disappear and hand over to Matt. Uh so, disappear and hand over to Matt. Uh so, I'll be your moderator for today's I'll be your moderator for today's I'll be your moderator for today's session. Uh we have a whole lot of great session. Uh we have a whole lot of great session. Uh we have a whole lot of great content to get through, but I know that content to get through, but I know that content to get through, but I know that the the most valuable part of today is the the most valuable part of today is the the most valuable part of today is actually going to be towards the end, actually going to be towards the end, actually going to be towards the end, which is our Q&A. If you have any which is our Q&A. If you have any which is our Q&A. If you have any questions as we go along, uh you have questions as we go along, uh you have questions as we go along, uh you have two options in the bottom right of your two options in the bottom right of your two options in the bottom right of your browser right now. There's a chat uh browser right now. There's a chat uh browser right now. There's a chat uh option and there's a questions option.

option and there's a questions option. option and there's a questions option. Either one is actually okay. Just ask Either one is actually okay. Just ask Either one is actually okay. Just ask your questions as we go along in in your questions as we go along in in your questions as we go along in in those areas. Uh and then Matt, Rui, and those areas. Uh and then Matt, Rui, and those areas. Uh and then Matt, Rui, and Oliver will answer um towards the end of Oliver will answer um towards the end of Oliver will answer um towards the end of today's session. So, without further today's session. So, without further today's session. So, without further ado, Matt, over to you. ado, Matt, over to you. ado, Matt, over to you. >> Let's take it away. Um >> Let's take it away. Um >> Let's take it away. Um well, I guess the well, I guess the well, I guess the cat's out of the bag on our our hosts. cat's out of the bag on our our hosts. cat's out of the bag on our our hosts. So, we'll start with this. Um So, we'll start with this. Um So, we'll start with this. Um if you're not aware, uh Hunter does if you're not aware, uh Hunter does if you're not aware, uh Hunter does research research research every year, but we're accelerating that every year, but we're accelerating that every year, but we're accelerating that where we look at all of the emails we where we look at all of the emails we where we look at all of the emails we send uh where people have said it's okay send uh where people have said it's okay send uh where people have said it's okay to use that data across all of our to use that data across all of our to use that data across all of our users, and we compile all of the users, and we compile all of the users, and we compile all of the information about what's working, what's information about what's working, what's information about what's working, what's not working uh into something that not working uh into something that not working uh into something that hopefully is is usable by you, the hopefully is is usable by you, the hopefully is is usable by you, the reader. And uh we incorporate many of reader. And uh we incorporate many of reader. And uh we incorporate many of those statistics into our product those statistics into our product those statistics into our product decisions, marketing, content, and into decisions, marketing, content, and into decisions, marketing, content, and into things like today's webinar. So, things like today's webinar. So, things like today's webinar. So, uh if you haven't had a chance, uh I uh if you haven't had a chance, uh I uh if you haven't had a chance, uh I don't think you can probably click that don't think you can probably click that don't think you can probably click that link that James is usually really good link that James is usually really good link that James is usually really good about sharing it. Uh you should about sharing it. Uh you should about sharing it. Uh you should definitely download the report and take definitely download the report and take definitely download the report and take a look. Um a look. Um a look. Um pretty pleased to say there's almost pretty pleased to say there's almost pretty pleased to say there's almost always something in there always something in there always something in there uh that shocks me a little bit or uh uh that shocks me a little bit or uh uh that shocks me a little bit or uh corrects my thinking about a particular corrects my thinking about a particular corrects my thinking about a particular approach to this. So, approach to this. So, approach to this. So, uh definitely recommend it. Uh take a uh definitely recommend it. Uh take a uh definitely recommend it. Uh take a look at that link. Um look at that link. Um look at that link. Um and as mentioned, here are the three of and as mentioned, here are the three of and as mentioned, here are the three of us who are going to uh hopefully uh us who are going to uh hopefully uh us who are going to uh hopefully uh expand your horizons and your minds with expand your horizons and your minds with expand your horizons and your minds with amazing content uh that's going to help

amazing content uh that's going to help amazing content uh that's going to help you grow your business. you grow your business. you grow your business. Uh so, Oliver, Ruey, thanks for joining Uh so, Oliver, Ruey, thanks for joining Uh so, Oliver, Ruey, thanks for joining us today. Glad to have you. us today. Glad to have you. us today. Glad to have you. Ruey, great picture, by the way. I don't Ruey, great picture, by the way. I don't Ruey, great picture, by the way. I don't know if you've gotten enough compliments know if you've gotten enough compliments know if you've gotten enough compliments about that today, so just about that today, so just about that today, so just >> Um I think first since the last 30 >> Um I think first since the last 30 >> Um I think first since the last 30 minutes. minutes. minutes. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Uh it can't be the worst kind of >> Uh it can't be the worst kind of >> Uh it can't be the worst kind of feedback you get, right? Um feedback you get, right? Um feedback you get, right? Um all right, here's the agenda. So, we'll all right, here's the agenda. So, we'll all right, here's the agenda. So, we'll cover a little bit about the reason why cover a little bit about the reason why cover a little bit about the reason why we're here, what what's the topic of we're here, what what's the topic of we're here, what what's the topic of conversation, why are we doing this. conversation, why are we doing this. conversation, why are we doing this. Um we'll get into Um we'll get into Um we'll get into within an organization, what's the right within an organization, what's the right within an organization, what's the right way to navigate way to navigate way to navigate getting to the people who are going to getting to the people who are going to getting to the people who are going to ultimately influence or make the ultimately influence or make the ultimately influence or make the decision. It's not always one person, decision. It's not always one person, decision. It's not always one person, which is I think a little bit of a which is I think a little bit of a which is I think a little bit of a spoiler. spoiler. spoiler. Um we're also going to talk about Um we're also going to talk about Um we're also going to talk about building personas. building personas. building personas. And then lastly, kind of a one-page And then lastly, kind of a one-page And then lastly, kind of a one-page plan. How do you implement? How do you plan. How do you implement? How do you plan. How do you implement? How do you use all of this? And then of course, if use all of this? And then of course, if use all of this? And then of course, if we miss anything, there's plenty of time we miss anything, there's plenty of time we miss anything, there's plenty of time for Q&A. Uh assuming we get through all for Q&A. Uh assuming we get through all for Q&A. Uh assuming we get through all the slides in time. So, let's uh let's the slides in time. So, let's uh let's the slides in time. So, let's uh let's keep moving. Um okay. Uh I think over keep moving. Um okay. Uh I think over keep moving. Um okay. Uh I think over the last handful of years, you're all the last handful of years, you're all the last handful of years, you're all probably very aware that there has been probably very aware that there has been probably very aware that there has been a a a focus on scalability focus on scalability focus on scalability uh and on sort of repeating common uh and on sort of repeating common uh and on sort of repeating common playbooks in terms of your outreach. And playbooks in terms of your outreach. And playbooks in terms of your outreach. And that scalability has usually manifested that scalability has usually manifested that scalability has usually manifested in ways that you would see people in ways that you would see people in ways that you would see people talking about how to make your list size talking about how to make your list size talking about how to make your list size as big as it can be, how to automate as big as it can be, how to automate as big as it can be, how to automate sending your emails to really large sending your emails to really large sending your emails to really large lists. And um one of the key areas of lists. And um one of the key areas of lists. And um one of the key areas of focus of our research was to try to focus of our research was to try to focus of our research was to try to figure out how do we help you do the

figure out how do we help you do the figure out how do we help you do the best uh you can within that. And what best uh you can within that. And what best uh you can within that. And what we've learned we've learned we've learned uh which honestly wasn't a terrible uh which honestly wasn't a terrible uh which honestly wasn't a terrible surprise, but at least now we have the surprise, but at least now we have the surprise, but at least now we have the data to back it up uh is that data to back it up uh is that data to back it up uh is that one-size-fits-all approaches for one-size-fits-all approaches for one-size-fits-all approaches for outreach are just not going to work outreach are just not going to work outreach are just not going to work anymore. Um not only does it not seem anymore. Um not only does it not seem anymore. Um not only does it not seem like it should work, but we actually now like it should work, but we actually now like it should work, but we actually now can see from a data perspective exactly can see from a data perspective exactly can see from a data perspective exactly where those drop-off points occur. where those drop-off points occur. where those drop-off points occur. And so And so And so what we've also heard from as part of what we've also heard from as part of what we've also heard from as part of our research is we don't just look at our research is we don't just look at our research is we don't just look at outbound data, we also survey outbound data, we also survey outbound data, we also survey decision-makers in a variety of decision-makers in a variety of decision-makers in a variety of industries. industries. industries. And um And um And um look, what they say is pretty consistent look, what they say is pretty consistent look, what they say is pretty consistent across the board. Um two-thirds of them across the board. Um two-thirds of them across the board. Um two-thirds of them will tell you that the outreach they will tell you that the outreach they will tell you that the outreach they receive feels very pushy, feels very receive feels very pushy, feels very receive feels very pushy, feels very sales-oriented and is kind of you know, sales-oriented and is kind of you know, sales-oriented and is kind of you know, frankly a little off-putting as an entry frankly a little off-putting as an entry frankly a little off-putting as an entry into a discussion. into a discussion. into a discussion. Um a similar number, slightly less, also Um a similar number, slightly less, also Um a similar number, slightly less, also highlight irrelevance as a reason why highlight irrelevance as a reason why highlight irrelevance as a reason why things don't really resonate, which things don't really resonate, which things don't really resonate, which makes perfect sense, right? Um makes perfect sense, right? Um makes perfect sense, right? Um if you're not being focused and targeted if you're not being focused and targeted if you're not being focused and targeted with your messaging, if you're not with your messaging, if you're not with your messaging, if you're not really trying to craft and really trying to craft and really trying to craft and not only a relevant but a meaningful not only a relevant but a meaningful not only a relevant but a meaningful message to your audience, it's going to message to your audience, it's going to message to your audience, it's going to fail. And really what this message says fail. And really what this message says fail. And really what this message says is don't do that. And don't think that is don't do that. And don't think that is don't do that. And don't think that just jumping right into a sales process just jumping right into a sales process just jumping right into a sales process is going to get you where you want to is going to get you where you want to is going to get you where you want to be.

be. be. So, So, So, what I'm not going to do is uh what I'm not going to do is uh what I'm not going to do is uh tell you that you should just email the tell you that you should just email the tell you that you should just email the CEO and then that's the secret. Um CEO and then that's the secret. Um CEO and then that's the secret. Um what it does mean is that you just to go what it does mean is that you just to go what it does mean is that you just to go back here, sorry, is that you should back here, sorry, is that you should back here, sorry, is that you should email more than one contact at a email more than one contact at a email more than one contact at a company. company. company. Um look, back in the day there was Um look, back in the day there was Um look, back in the day there was something called ABM that was popular as something called ABM that was popular as something called ABM that was popular as a term for a while. Conceptually what a term for a while. Conceptually what a term for a while. Conceptually what ABM did was allow you to target multiple ABM did was allow you to target multiple ABM did was allow you to target multiple people within a company. And it was all people within a company. And it was all people within a company. And it was all about kind of optimizing your approach about kind of optimizing your approach about kind of optimizing your approach for a for a go-to-market outreach that for a for a go-to-market outreach that for a for a go-to-market outreach that was based on touching multiple folks in was based on touching multiple folks in was based on touching multiple folks in an organization. This is absolutely an organization. This is absolutely an organization. This is absolutely still important to do. still important to do. still important to do. Um and in fact, the data suggests, you Um and in fact, the data suggests, you Um and in fact, the data suggests, you know, it continues to be more important know, it continues to be more important know, it continues to be more important than ever. than ever. than ever. One contact One contact One contact per company per company per company per sequence though is really going to per sequence though is really going to per sequence though is really going to be the key recipe that you'll hear us be the key recipe that you'll hear us be the key recipe that you'll hear us talk about today. It's not about just talk about today. It's not about just talk about today. It's not about just reaching one person, but going back to reaching one person, but going back to reaching one person, but going back to that relevance point, it is about making that relevance point, it is about making that relevance point, it is about making sure that the email that you send to sure that the email that you send to sure that the email that you send to each person in the organization each person in the organization each person in the organization respects what they're doing, their role respects what they're doing, their role respects what they're doing, their role in the sales decision-making process, in the sales decision-making process, in the sales decision-making process, their role in their buying process, and their role in their buying process, and their role in their buying process, and ideally that your message is thoughtful ideally that your message is thoughtful ideally that your message is thoughtful about who they are in reference to the about who they are in reference to the about who they are in reference to the services that you provide.

services that you provide. services that you provide. When you do that, you're going to get When you do that, you're going to get When you do that, you're going to get almost double, uh, you know, the number almost double, uh, you know, the number almost double, uh, you know, the number of open, uh, reply rate. And so, I think of open, uh, reply rate. And so, I think of open, uh, reply rate. And so, I think this is really important. Sorry, this is this is really important. Sorry, this is this is really important. Sorry, this is reply rate, not open rate. reply rate, not open rate. reply rate, not open rate. So, don't send the same email to So, don't send the same email to So, don't send the same email to multiple people in one company. Can't multiple people in one company. Can't multiple people in one company. Can't emphasize this enough. emphasize this enough. emphasize this enough. Um, Um, Um, look, doing what I just said, if you're look, doing what I just said, if you're look, doing what I just said, if you're sending the exact same message to sending the exact same message to sending the exact same message to multiple people within the company, multiple people within the company, multiple people within the company, here's the risk that creates for you. here's the risk that creates for you. here's the risk that creates for you. So, ignoring the data for a second, what So, ignoring the data for a second, what So, ignoring the data for a second, what it's doing is creating proof inside the it's doing is creating proof inside the it's doing is creating proof inside the organization that you're trying to reach organization that you're trying to reach organization that you're trying to reach out to that your messaging is not out to that your messaging is not out to that your messaging is not personal. personal. personal. That right there should be a reason That right there should be a reason That right there should be a reason enough not to do it. But, what often enough not to do it. But, what often enough not to do it. But, what often happens is you'll see something like happens is you'll see something like happens is you'll see something like this. this. this. They will simply take the exact same They will simply take the exact same They will simply take the exact same message and change the first name. Call message and change the first name. Call message and change the first name. Call it personalized. it personalized. it personalized. That's not going to get you there. That's not going to get you there. That's not going to get you there. Um, they're going to maybe reference Um, they're going to maybe reference Um, they're going to maybe reference using the same general email, uh, that using the same general email, uh, that using the same general email, uh, that you're a part of a certain LinkedIn you're a part of a certain LinkedIn you're a part of a certain LinkedIn group or that they're going to reference group or that they're going to reference group or that they're going to reference your LinkedIn post. But again, when this your LinkedIn post. But again, when this your LinkedIn post. But again, when this when two or three or four different when two or three or four different when two or three or four different people in the same organization get that people in the same organization get that people in the same organization get that message, that's message, that's message, that's obviously going to, uh, be a red flag.

obviously going to, uh, be a red flag. obviously going to, uh, be a red flag. Um, I also want to point out that spam Um, I also want to point out that spam Um, I also want to point out that spam filters are looking for this kind of filters are looking for this kind of filters are looking for this kind of thing, too. So, it's not just about the thing, too. So, it's not just about the thing, too. So, it's not just about the recipient filtering out your content, recipient filtering out your content, recipient filtering out your content, it's also about making sure that spam it's also about making sure that spam it's also about making sure that spam filters don't see you sending, you know, filters don't see you sending, you know, filters don't see you sending, you know, five, six, seven versions of the same five, six, seven versions of the same five, six, seven versions of the same email to different people in the email to different people in the email to different people in the company. company. company. You've got to do more than that. You've got to do more than that. You've got to do more than that. Um Um Um Look, ultimately Look, ultimately Look, ultimately all of this is about finding ways to all of this is about finding ways to all of this is about finding ways to generate more leads from email. That's generate more leads from email. That's generate more leads from email. That's really the purpose of all of our advice really the purpose of all of our advice really the purpose of all of our advice is to try to help you find all the is to try to help you find all the is to try to help you find all the edges, the nooks and crannies, the edges, the nooks and crannies, the edges, the nooks and crannies, the opportunities kind of to tweak and opportunities kind of to tweak and opportunities kind of to tweak and improve your messaging or your outreach. improve your messaging or your outreach. improve your messaging or your outreach. This is no different. Um This is no different. Um This is no different. Um Your lead, the people you you're trying Your lead, the people you you're trying Your lead, the people you you're trying to reach out to, they to reach out to, they to reach out to, they Look, we're all in the business of Look, we're all in the business of Look, we're all in the business of finding opportunities to solve problems finding opportunities to solve problems finding opportunities to solve problems for our companies, right? Regardless of for our companies, right? Regardless of for our companies, right? Regardless of what position you're in, that is sort of what position you're in, that is sort of what position you're in, that is sort of what we're here for. And a really key what we're here for. And a really key what we're here for. And a really key way of discovering new services is way of discovering new services is way of discovering new services is people reaching out to you. It's not a people reaching out to you. It's not a people reaching out to you. It's not a bad thing. It's just that too often bad thing. It's just that too often bad thing. It's just that too often people do it poorly. That's what I'm people do it poorly. That's what I'm people do it poorly. That's what I'm trying to get everybody who's here not trying to get everybody who's here not trying to get everybody who's here not to do. Um because the people that you're to do. Um because the people that you're to do. Um because the people that you're emailing do need the information. You emailing do need the information. You emailing do need the information. You know, they want you to send them an know, they want you to send them an know, they want you to send them an email that's relevant. You They want you email that's relevant. You They want you email that's relevant. You They want you to highlight a new opportunity where to highlight a new opportunity where to highlight a new opportunity where they can potentially bring more value they can potentially bring more value they can potentially bring more value into their organization.

into their organization. into their organization. This is actually a quote we got from a This is actually a quote we got from a This is actually a quote we got from a marketing director. marketing director. marketing director. Uh people ought to look more at who Uh people ought to look more at who Uh people ought to look more at who they're sending emails to rather than they're sending emails to rather than they're sending emails to rather than the scaling. the scaling. the scaling. Um because the scaling is what costs Um because the scaling is what costs Um because the scaling is what costs relevance. relevance. relevance. This is a very common refrain, frankly, This is a very common refrain, frankly, This is a very common refrain, frankly, when we look at the research. when we look at the research. when we look at the research. So, So, So, yes, you need to think about scale, but yes, you need to think about scale, but yes, you need to think about scale, but you need to rethink how you're thinking you need to rethink how you're thinking you need to rethink how you're thinking about scaling outreach to make sure that about scaling outreach to make sure that about scaling outreach to make sure that you're optimizing at all times for you're optimizing at all times for you're optimizing at all times for relevance. relevance. relevance. And today we're going to talk a lot And today we're going to talk a lot And today we're going to talk a lot about how do you reach different folks, about how do you reach different folks, about how do you reach different folks, but you don't want to lose this initial but you don't want to lose this initial but you don't want to lose this initial principle because this is really the key principle because this is really the key principle because this is really the key difference maker in making sure difference maker in making sure difference maker in making sure everything you send is going to be more everything you send is going to be more everything you send is going to be more successful. successful. successful. Um Now, something you've heard us talk Um Now, something you've heard us talk Um Now, something you've heard us talk about, I want to actually show you the about, I want to actually show you the about, I want to actually show you the data directly and visually. data directly and visually. data directly and visually. Um Um Um Our research shows that the reply rate Our research shows that the reply rate Our research shows that the reply rate improves improves improves when your list size is smaller. and you when your list size is smaller. and you when your list size is smaller. and you can see right here 50 and below is the can see right here 50 and below is the can see right here 50 and below is the sweet spot. And so really 21 to 50 is sweet spot. And so really 21 to 50 is sweet spot. And so really 21 to 50 is the right is the right range. So, what the right is the right range. So, what the right is the right range. So, what does this mean? You're like, "Matt, I'm does this mean? You're like, "Matt, I'm does this mean? You're like, "Matt, I'm trying to scale my business, trying to scale my business, trying to scale my business, not shrink my outreach." I agree, not shrink my outreach." I agree, not shrink my outreach." I agree, but there's obviously ways that you can but there's obviously ways that you can but there's obviously ways that you can break segments down, that you can do break segments down, that you can do break segments down, that you can do sub-segmentation, all of which is sub-segmentation, all of which is sub-segmentation, all of which is designed to try to get you to a small designed to try to get you to a small designed to try to get you to a small targeted list. What 50 means here is not targeted list. What 50 means here is not targeted list. What 50 means here is not literally 50 people. What it means is literally 50 people. What it means is literally 50 people. What it means is 50 is about the number that most people 50 is about the number that most people 50 is about the number that most people can build into a segment that's small can build into a segment that's small can build into a segment that's small enough to make sure that everybody enough to make sure that everybody enough to make sure that everybody you're reaching out to

you're reaching out to you're reaching out to makes sense message-wise, right? So, if makes sense message-wise, right? So, if makes sense message-wise, right? So, if I'm sending an email to somebody who's I'm sending an email to somebody who's I'm sending an email to somebody who's in product and somebody who's in sales, in product and somebody who's in sales, in product and somebody who's in sales, you can imagine the way that I would you can imagine the way that I would you can imagine the way that I would communicate with each of them is going communicate with each of them is going communicate with each of them is going to be very different. to be very different. to be very different. That's really what this number That's really what this number That's really what this number represents. It represents that at 50, represents. It represents that at 50, represents. It represents that at 50, you've built a small enough audience you've built a small enough audience you've built a small enough audience that the message is probably going to be that the message is probably going to be that the message is probably going to be able to tail to be tailored and relevant able to tail to be tailored and relevant able to tail to be tailored and relevant to every one of them. It's not that you to every one of them. It's not that you to every one of them. It's not that you need to do it one-off, but it means that need to do it one-off, but it means that need to do it one-off, but it means that if you can shrink that list size down to if you can shrink that list size down to if you can shrink that list size down to people with a specific area of interest, people with a specific area of interest, people with a specific area of interest, specific role in an organization, specific role in an organization, specific role in an organization, specific region in the country, specific region in the country, specific region in the country, all of the differences that play into all of the differences that play into all of the differences that play into that are going to help you make sure that are going to help you make sure that are going to help you make sure your messaging is tailored to be more your messaging is tailored to be more your messaging is tailored to be more relevant. The small list size makes that relevant. The small list size makes that relevant. The small list size makes that job easier. That's really what the 50 is job easier. That's really what the 50 is job easier. That's really what the 50 is about. That's really the behind the about. That's really the behind the about. That's really the behind the data. Um and that's why you see past 50, data. Um and that's why you see past 50, data. Um and that's why you see past 50, the number starts to decline pretty the number starts to decline pretty the number starts to decline pretty rapidly. Once you get to 500 and above, rapidly. Once you get to 500 and above, rapidly. Once you get to 500 and above, you know, you know, you know, your numbers are not going to to look your numbers are not going to to look your numbers are not going to to look very good. very good. very good. So, this is ultimately what this is So, this is ultimately what this is So, this is ultimately what this is saying. saying. saying. Yes, I agree, smaller doesn't scale. It Yes, I agree, smaller doesn't scale. It Yes, I agree, smaller doesn't scale. It is true that 50 is not a full-size list, is true that 50 is not a full-size list, is true that 50 is not a full-size list, but what 50 is is a segment that you can but what 50 is is a segment that you can but what 50 is is a segment that you can speak directly to. And that's really the speak directly to. And that's really the speak directly to. And that's really the piece that we're trying to make clear.

piece that we're trying to make clear. piece that we're trying to make clear. You want to scale relevance, and the way You want to scale relevance, and the way You want to scale relevance, and the way to scale relevance, not just your list, to scale relevance, not just your list, to scale relevance, not just your list, but your actual relevance is knowing but your actual relevance is knowing but your actual relevance is knowing who's going to influence the success. who's going to influence the success. who's going to influence the success. Not always just the decision-maker. Not always just the decision-maker. Not always just the decision-maker. Makes sense to reach out to other people Makes sense to reach out to other people Makes sense to reach out to other people in the organization because one of the in the organization because one of the in the organization because one of the benefits of that is let's say three or benefits of that is let's say three or benefits of that is let's say three or four people in the decision-making four people in the decision-making four people in the decision-making committee, assuming it's a large company committee, assuming it's a large company committee, assuming it's a large company and they have a decision-making and they have a decision-making and they have a decision-making committee. Um those people in that room committee. Um those people in that room committee. Um those people in that room are all going to have heard of you, are are all going to have heard of you, are are all going to have heard of you, are all going to have seen what kind of all going to have seen what kind of all going to have seen what kind of solutions you offer. So by the time the solutions you offer. So by the time the solutions you offer. So by the time the decision-maker or the champion brings decision-maker or the champion brings decision-maker or the champion brings this thing into the discussion, it's not this thing into the discussion, it's not this thing into the discussion, it's not going to be like a brand new brand name going to be like a brand new brand name going to be like a brand new brand name that they're just now hearing for the that they're just now hearing for the that they're just now hearing for the first time. So knowing who influences first time. So knowing who influences first time. So knowing who influences the success is really important. the success is really important. the success is really important. Understanding what they care about. Um Understanding what they care about. Um Understanding what they care about. Um making sure the messages are built for making sure the messages are built for making sure the messages are built for what they care about and who they are what they care about and who they are what they care about and who they are within the decision-making process. within the decision-making process. within the decision-making process. And then again, all of this is going to And then again, all of this is going to And then again, all of this is going to help you to make sure that you can help you to make sure that you can help you to make sure that you can contact multiple people inside a contact multiple people inside a contact multiple people inside a company, all of which is going to help company, all of which is going to help company, all of which is going to help improve your success.

improve your success. improve your success. Today is about sharing how My point was Today is about sharing how My point was Today is about sharing how My point was just to make sure you understand why we just to make sure you understand why we just to make sure you understand why we think this is important in the first think this is important in the first think this is important in the first place and what the data says. place and what the data says. place and what the data says. And so with that, let's uh And so with that, let's uh And so with that, let's uh let's turn it over. let's turn it over. let's turn it over. Oliver? Oliver? Oliver? >> Sweet. Now, thank you, Matt. I think >> Sweet. Now, thank you, Matt. I think >> Sweet. Now, thank you, Matt. I think that was some really important insights that was some really important insights that was some really important insights there and definitely sets the foundation there and definitely sets the foundation there and definitely sets the foundation for what Rui and I are going to dive for what Rui and I are going to dive for what Rui and I are going to dive into. But now, we really want to look into. But now, we really want to look into. But now, we really want to look into how buying decisions are actually into how buying decisions are actually into how buying decisions are actually made and then how that impacts your made and then how that impacts your made and then how that impacts your outbound email sequences. outbound email sequences. outbound email sequences. So most cold emails, they don't fail So most cold emails, they don't fail So most cold emails, they don't fail because the copy's bad or the message because the copy's bad or the message because the copy's bad or the message isn't right. A lot of the time it's just isn't right. A lot of the time it's just isn't right. A lot of the time it's just because you're sending it to the wrong because you're sending it to the wrong because you're sending it to the wrong person. person. person. So when we're looking at So when we're looking at So when we're looking at our outbound, our cold email setups, our outbound, our cold email setups, our outbound, our cold email setups, before you even write a single word, we before you even write a single word, we before you even write a single word, we need to understand one, who we're need to understand one, who we're need to understand one, who we're actually writing to, but then long-term, actually writing to, but then long-term, actually writing to, but then long-term, we obviously want to turn our cold we obviously want to turn our cold we obviously want to turn our cold emails into sales, what that emails into sales, what that emails into sales, what that decision-making process looks like on decision-making process looks like on decision-making process looks like on the back end. the back end. the back end. Now, more often than not, there's four Now, more often than not, there's four Now, more often than not, there's four buckets of people we'll be reaching out buckets of people we'll be reaching out buckets of people we'll be reaching out to and who's involved in a buying to and who's involved in a buying to and who's involved in a buying decision. There's the pain feeler, and decision. There's the pain feeler, and decision. There's the pain feeler, and this is usually who we're able to find this is usually who we're able to find this is usually who we're able to find first. And they're also the ones who are first. And they're also the ones who are first. And they're also the ones who are going to understand our email going to understand our email going to understand our email immediately.

immediately. immediately. But, more often than not, they might not But, more often than not, they might not But, more often than not, they might not be the one that can actually pull the be the one that can actually pull the be the one that can actually pull the trigger on solving the issue. trigger on solving the issue. trigger on solving the issue. So, they're they're good to have in the So, they're they're good to have in the So, they're they're good to have in the the batch, but they're not always going the batch, but they're not always going the batch, but they're not always going to be the one that can pull the trigger, to be the one that can pull the trigger, to be the one that can pull the trigger, like I said. Now, two is the budget like I said. Now, two is the budget like I said. Now, two is the budget holder. This person doesn't necessarily holder. This person doesn't necessarily holder. This person doesn't necessarily care about features of what we're care about features of what we're care about features of what we're offering. They don't care about how they offering. They don't care about how they offering. They don't care about how they get from A to Z. They just care about get from A to Z. They just care about get from A to Z. They just care about what they get on the outcome, what what they get on the outcome, what what they get on the outcome, what problem is being solved. So, before you problem is being solved. So, before you problem is being solved. So, before you write to them, you really need to be write to them, you really need to be write to them, you really need to be able to answer what question, and that's able to answer what question, and that's able to answer what question, and that's what is the cost of not solving this. what is the cost of not solving this. what is the cost of not solving this. And for the budget holders, if that's And for the budget holders, if that's And for the budget holders, if that's who we're reaching out to, that's the who we're reaching out to, that's the who we're reaching out to, that's the frame that's going to get responses. So, frame that's going to get responses. So, frame that's going to get responses. So, you don't want to write here's what we you don't want to write here's what we you don't want to write here's what we do emails. You really want to write do emails. You really want to write do emails. You really want to write here's what it's costing you by not here's what it's costing you by not here's what it's costing you by not solving this problem. solving this problem. solving this problem. Then three, the blocker. Another very Then three, the blocker. Another very Then three, the blocker. Another very important person, but a lot of the time important person, but a lot of the time important person, but a lot of the time you might not know this person exists you might not know this person exists you might not know this person exists until you're further into the sales until you're further into the sales until you're further into the sales cycle. cycle. cycle. However, if you go through this process However, if you go through this process However, if you go through this process enough times or you have historical enough times or you have historical enough times or you have historical data, data, data, you can you can you can we'll call it pre-handle any objections we'll call it pre-handle any objections we'll call it pre-handle any objections this person might throw out. So, this person might throw out. So, this person might throw out. So, if the deal's at risk of stalling, this if the deal's at risk of stalling, this if the deal's at risk of stalling, this could be your legal, your IT, a could be your legal, your IT, a could be your legal, your IT, a skeptical finance person.

skeptical finance person. skeptical finance person. The lesson here is don't write as if The lesson here is don't write as if The lesson here is don't write as if this person kind of makes the decisions. this person kind of makes the decisions. this person kind of makes the decisions. If you can identify the blockers up If you can identify the blockers up If you can identify the blockers up front, front, front, that's when you've got the best chance that's when you've got the best chance that's when you've got the best chance to, again, pre-handle it as you're to, again, pre-handle it as you're to, again, pre-handle it as you're reaching out to everybody in the reaching out to everybody in the reaching out to everybody in the organization. organization. organization. Cuz then you can, again, pre-frame the Cuz then you can, again, pre-frame the Cuz then you can, again, pre-frame the objections, beat them to the point where objections, beat them to the point where objections, beat them to the point where the blocker could step in and stall the the blocker could step in and stall the the blocker could step in and stall the deal. deal. deal. Now, the champion, this is my personal Now, the champion, this is my personal Now, the champion, this is my personal favorite. This is someone inside the favorite. This is someone inside the favorite. This is someone inside the company who benefits from your solution company who benefits from your solution company who benefits from your solution working. So, think of this like an working. So, think of this like an working. So, think of this like an internal sales rep. internal sales rep. internal sales rep. What is kind of the most important part What is kind of the most important part What is kind of the most important part of the buying cycle is one getting your of the buying cycle is one getting your of the buying cycle is one getting your foot in the door, but two somebody to foot in the door, but two somebody to foot in the door, but two somebody to vouch for you. And that's what the vouch for you. And that's what the vouch for you. And that's what the champion is going to do. champion is going to do. champion is going to do. And a good email sequence here, it And a good email sequence here, it And a good email sequence here, it really should just kind of include really should just kind of include really should just kind of include outreach designed to create a champion. outreach designed to create a champion. outreach designed to create a champion. Not necessarily go for the direct sale. Not necessarily go for the direct sale. Not necessarily go for the direct sale. Because if we can get the champion on Because if we can get the champion on Because if we can get the champion on our side, we've got somebody internally our side, we've got somebody internally our side, we've got somebody internally vouching for us, vouching for us, vouching for us, we can help them we can help them we can help them vouch again for the the solution and vouch again for the the solution and vouch again for the the solution and help us find a decision maker, whether help us find a decision maker, whether help us find a decision maker, whether it's them or not. So, everybody kind of it's them or not. So, everybody kind of it's them or not. So, everybody kind of has their own role within the team. Now has their own role within the team. Now has their own role within the team. Now you've got to write specific messages to you've got to write specific messages to you've got to write specific messages to each one of these people to make sure each one of these people to make sure each one of these people to make sure your deal keeps moving forward.

And so, when you can contact two to And so, when you can contact two to three of these people in one company, three of these people in one company, three of these people in one company, you're going to improve your reply rates you're going to improve your reply rates you're going to improve your reply rates by 46%. Now again, to what Matt was by 46%. Now again, to what Matt was by 46%. Now again, to what Matt was saying earlier, you don't necessarily saying earlier, you don't necessarily saying earlier, you don't necessarily want to put all of your eggs in one want to put all of your eggs in one want to put all of your eggs in one basket, just hope that message finds the basket, just hope that message finds the basket, just hope that message finds the right person at the right time. You can right person at the right time. You can right person at the right time. You can write personalized messages to your four write personalized messages to your four write personalized messages to your four buckets, so your pain feeler, your buckets, so your pain feeler, your buckets, so your pain feeler, your budget holder, your blocker, and your budget holder, your blocker, and your budget holder, your blocker, and your champion. champion. champion. It really just increases your chances of It really just increases your chances of It really just increases your chances of getting noticed, getting responded to, getting noticed, getting responded to, getting noticed, getting responded to, getting your foot in the door for that getting your foot in the door for that getting your foot in the door for that next conversation. next conversation. next conversation. >> Hey Oliver, can I jump in? Can you go >> Hey Oliver, can I jump in? Can you go >> Hey Oliver, can I jump in? Can you go back to that one slide? I just want to back to that one slide? I just want to back to that one slide? I just want to point out, you know, uh point out, you know, uh point out, you know, uh the depending on the size of the the depending on the size of the the depending on the size of the organization, uh organization, uh organization, uh the smaller the organization, the more the smaller the organization, the more the smaller the organization, the more likely are that some of these people are likely are that some of these people are likely are that some of these people are the same person. So, the idea of the the same person. So, the idea of the the same person. So, the idea of the pain feeler and the champion in a small pain feeler and the champion in a small pain feeler and the champion in a small business is often the same person business is often the same person business is often the same person because the person who feels the pain is because the person who feels the pain is because the person who feels the pain is empowered to fix it. So, they become the empowered to fix it. So, they become the empowered to fix it. So, they become the champion. In a bigger organization, the champion. In a bigger organization, the champion. In a bigger organization, the people feeling the pain are not people feeling the pain are not people feeling the pain are not empowered to fix it. They're just empowered to fix it. They're just empowered to fix it. They're just empowered to deal with it and get paid empowered to deal with it and get paid empowered to deal with it and get paid for it. So, the champion is usually for it. So, the champion is usually for it. So, the champion is usually somebody higher up. So, you can think somebody higher up. So, you can think somebody higher up. So, you can think about this is like a compression effect.

about this is like a compression effect. about this is like a compression effect. You The smaller the organization that You The smaller the organization that You The smaller the organization that you're reaching into, the more likely you're reaching into, the more likely you're reaching into, the more likely they touch more than one of these they touch more than one of these they touch more than one of these personas. personas. personas. But, you still want to think about each But, you still want to think about each But, you still want to think about each one of these when you're building your one of these when you're building your one of these when you're building your content because even if it is the same content because even if it is the same content because even if it is the same person, person, person, maybe you want to make the first one maybe you want to make the first one maybe you want to make the first one about the pain and the second one about about the pain and the second one about about the pain and the second one about being the champion, right? So, you can being the champion, right? So, you can being the champion, right? So, you can kind of think about how that would weave kind of think about how that would weave kind of think about how that would weave into your into your into your weave into your content. weave into your content. weave into your content. >> Yeah, 100% No, great point. And we do >> Yeah, 100% No, great point. And we do >> Yeah, 100% No, great point. And we do kind of go into that here. So, I think kind of go into that here. So, I think kind of go into that here. So, I think you're we're we're in a very good spot. you're we're we're in a very good spot. you're we're we're in a very good spot. So, there's two ways we want to look So, there's two ways we want to look So, there's two ways we want to look about this, right? So, we've got two about this, right? So, we've got two about this, right? So, we've got two examples here. We've got a 30-person examples here. We've got a 30-person examples here. We've got a 30-person SaaS or tech startup and a 250-person SaaS or tech startup and a 250-person SaaS or tech startup and a 250-person manufacturing firm. manufacturing firm. manufacturing firm. So, like Matt said, So, like Matt said, So, like Matt said, in a smaller business like a 30-person in a smaller business like a 30-person in a smaller business like a 30-person tech startup, tech startup, tech startup, one CEO, one founder, one COO might wear one CEO, one founder, one COO might wear one CEO, one founder, one COO might wear multiple different hats. So, they could multiple different hats. So, they could multiple different hats. So, they could be the pain, budget, blocker, and be the pain, budget, blocker, and be the pain, budget, blocker, and champion all at the same time. champion all at the same time. champion all at the same time. But, that does not mean we need to hit But, that does not mean we need to hit But, that does not mean we need to hit every single one of those points in a every single one of those points in a every single one of those points in a single email. We want to build sequences single email. We want to build sequences single email. We want to build sequences around each of those roles of this one around each of those roles of this one around each of those roles of this one person.

person. person. So, the founder CEO, they might care So, the founder CEO, they might care So, the founder CEO, they might care about revenue, cost, time, and thriving about revenue, cost, time, and thriving about revenue, cost, time, and thriving in their market. in their market. in their market. There's different ways you can tie your There's different ways you can tie your There's different ways you can tie your sequences around that, and we'll go into sequences around that, and we'll go into sequences around that, and we'll go into that in just a second. that in just a second. that in just a second. But, on the flip side of that, if you But, on the flip side of that, if you But, on the flip side of that, if you jump up to a 250-person manufacturing jump up to a 250-person manufacturing jump up to a 250-person manufacturing firm, firm, firm, each individual person's going to have each individual person's going to have each individual person's going to have dedicated functions, responsibilities, dedicated functions, responsibilities, dedicated functions, responsibilities, and then they're going to be able to and then they're going to be able to and then they're going to be able to coordinate those decisions together. So, coordinate those decisions together. So, coordinate those decisions together. So, the pain feeler could be a head of a the pain feeler could be a head of a the pain feeler could be a head of a certain department, the budget owner certain department, the budget owner certain department, the budget owner might be the COO. Again, like we might be the COO. Again, like we might be the COO. Again, like we mentioned earlier, blocker might be HR, mentioned earlier, blocker might be HR, mentioned earlier, blocker might be HR, IT, legal. IT, legal. IT, legal. Then, the champion might be the person Then, the champion might be the person Then, the champion might be the person who actually feels that pain every who actually feels that pain every who actually feels that pain every single day. So, smaller companies, yes, single day. So, smaller companies, yes, single day. So, smaller companies, yes, multiple multiple people are going to multiple multiple people are going to multiple multiple people are going to wear multiple hats. You can tailor wear multiple hats. You can tailor wear multiple hats. You can tailor messaging around that. messaging around that. messaging around that. At a larger firm, you can tailor your At a larger firm, you can tailor your At a larger firm, you can tailor your messaging to individual people that are messaging to individual people that are messaging to individual people that are going to resonate with what we're going to resonate with what we're going to resonate with what we're offering. And so, again, here's how this looks at And so, again, here's how this looks at different size companies receiving the different size companies receiving the different size companies receiving the same offer.

same offer. same offer. So, we will start off with a smaller So, we will start off with a smaller So, we will start off with a smaller company, give you examples there, but company, give you examples there, but company, give you examples there, but when you're targeting a smaller company, when you're targeting a smaller company, when you're targeting a smaller company, you may just have to email one contact, you may just have to email one contact, you may just have to email one contact, but again, you don't want to put all of but again, you don't want to put all of but again, you don't want to put all of these in one message. You want to use these in one message. You want to use these in one message. You want to use different angles until you can draw a different angles until you can draw a different angles until you can draw a reply. reply. reply. So, we're looking at a founder of a So, we're looking at a founder of a So, we're looking at a founder of a 30-person SaaS company, email one might 30-person SaaS company, email one might 30-person SaaS company, email one might be treating them as a pain feeler. So, be treating them as a pain feeler. So, be treating them as a pain feeler. So, they care about winning hours back lost they care about winning hours back lost they care about winning hours back lost to repeatable repeating operational to repeatable repeating operational to repeatable repeating operational problems. Or, in this case, might ignore problems. Or, in this case, might ignore problems. Or, in this case, might ignore what ads, meetings, docs, processes for what ads, meetings, docs, processes for what ads, meetings, docs, processes for its own sake. So, you write an email to its own sake. So, you write an email to its own sake. So, you write an email to that persona. Yes, it's going to one that persona. Yes, it's going to one that persona. Yes, it's going to one person, but they might have different person, but they might have different person, but they might have different characteristics during different characteristics during different characteristics during different seasons, even. seasons, even. seasons, even. So, email one can be a pain feeler So, email one can be a pain feeler So, email one can be a pain feeler email. email. email. Now, email two, going to the same person Now, email two, going to the same person Now, email two, going to the same person again, this is where you can treat them again, this is where you can treat them again, this is where you can treat them like a budget holder. So, they care like a budget holder. So, they care like a budget holder. So, they care about extending their runway and making about extending their runway and making about extending their runway and making every dollar work harder, every dollar work harder, every dollar work harder, but in this case, but in this case, but in this case, if we can't show how fast or show a if we can't show how fast or show a if we can't show how fast or show a measurable payback, they might ignore measurable payback, they might ignore measurable payback, they might ignore the message.

the message. the message. And then moving on to the third, again, And then moving on to the third, again, And then moving on to the third, again, the same person, now we're taking a the same person, now we're taking a the same person, now we're taking a third angle. Let's treat them like a third angle. Let's treat them like a third angle. Let's treat them like a champion. So, what they care about with champion. So, what they care about with champion. So, what they care about with this angle is compounding gains quarter this angle is compounding gains quarter this angle is compounding gains quarter over quarter and winning the category, over quarter and winning the category, over quarter and winning the category, but they're going to ignore messages but they're going to ignore messages but they're going to ignore messages that don't move the needle on growth. that don't move the needle on growth. that don't move the needle on growth. So, it's all going to one person. Each So, it's all going to one person. Each So, it's all going to one person. Each email has its own job, and that's to email has its own job, and that's to email has its own job, and that's to treat them like a pain feeler, a budget treat them like a pain feeler, a budget treat them like a pain feeler, a budget holder, and a champion. Now, we're holder, and a champion. Now, we're holder, and a champion. Now, we're reaching out to a founder, it's unlikely reaching out to a founder, it's unlikely reaching out to a founder, it's unlikely that they're the blocker in this case. that they're the blocker in this case. that they're the blocker in this case. So, that's why we focus on on three So, that's why we focus on on three So, that's why we focus on on three buckets. But, if we're focusing on a buckets. But, if we're focusing on a buckets. But, if we're focusing on a CTO, they could be a blocker in this CTO, they could be a blocker in this CTO, they could be a blocker in this case, but they could also fill the other case, but they could also fill the other case, but they could also fill the other three buckets. three buckets. three buckets. So, really think about who you're So, really think about who you're So, really think about who you're messaging, which of the four buckets messaging, which of the four buckets messaging, which of the four buckets applies to them, and then in a sequence, applies to them, and then in a sequence, applies to them, and then in a sequence, write specific messages to hit on each write specific messages to hit on each write specific messages to hit on each one of those buckets. And then when we're moving upstream, so And then when we're moving upstream, so a 250-person manufacturing firm, for a 250-person manufacturing firm, for a 250-person manufacturing firm, for example, we want to use this same logic, example, we want to use this same logic, example, we want to use this same logic, but rather than but rather than but rather than sending the three buckets to the same sending the three buckets to the same sending the three buckets to the same person in the same sequence, we split person in the same sequence, we split person in the same sequence, we split that across different personas.

that across different personas. that across different personas. So, now we've picked out two to three So, now we've picked out two to three So, now we've picked out two to three different people. So, the different people. So, the different people. So, the pain feeler in this case at a 250-person pain feeler in this case at a 250-person pain feeler in this case at a 250-person manufacturing firm manufacturing firm manufacturing firm might be the head of a department. So, might be the head of a department. So, might be the head of a department. So, they care about standardizing processes, they care about standardizing processes, they care about standardizing processes, being filed and driven down on wastage, being filed and driven down on wastage, being filed and driven down on wastage, and they might ignore anything that and they might ignore anything that and they might ignore anything that sounds like more slides, no value. So, sounds like more slides, no value. So, sounds like more slides, no value. So, that's going to one person. Now, we that's going to one person. Now, we that's going to one person. Now, we switch over to a second person switch over to a second person switch over to a second person who's going to be in a different bucket, who's going to be in a different bucket, who's going to be in a different bucket, and that's going to be the bucket holder and that's going to be the bucket holder and that's going to be the bucket holder budget holder bucket. budget holder bucket. budget holder bucket. And that could be your COO. So, they And that could be your COO. So, they And that could be your COO. So, they really care about kind of connecting really care about kind of connecting really care about kind of connecting processes, improving company strategy, processes, improving company strategy, processes, improving company strategy, and reducing costs. and reducing costs. and reducing costs. That might not be the case for a head of That might not be the case for a head of That might not be the case for a head of a certain department. So, we want to a certain department. So, we want to a certain department. So, we want to treat the budget holder in this case treat the budget holder in this case treat the budget holder in this case based on their roles and based on their roles and based on their roles and responsibilities, what sort of decisions responsibilities, what sort of decisions responsibilities, what sort of decisions they're going to be able to make within they're going to be able to make within they're going to be able to make within the company. the company. the company. Now, switching over to the blocker, that Now, switching over to the blocker, that Now, switching over to the blocker, that could be the head of HR. Everybody loves could be the head of HR. Everybody loves could be the head of HR. Everybody loves talking to HR in their day-to-day. So, talking to HR in their day-to-day. So, talking to HR in their day-to-day. So, you can kind of treat them like a you can kind of treat them like a you can kind of treat them like a blocker in the email sequence as well. blocker in the email sequence as well. blocker in the email sequence as well. But, there are things they do care But, there are things they do care But, there are things they do care about, and that could be learning and about, and that could be learning and about, and that could be learning and development, personal development within development, personal development within development, personal development within the business, improving the business, improving the business, improving turnover, improving churn, anything like turnover, improving churn, anything like turnover, improving churn, anything like that where they can operate in that that where they can operate in that that where they can operate in that sense.

sense. sense. So, now, in the previous example at the So, now, in the previous example at the So, now, in the previous example at the smaller company, we've got one person smaller company, we've got one person smaller company, we've got one person one person, three buckets. As you move one person, three buckets. As you move one person, three buckets. As you move upstream, upstream, upstream, now we've got three people for three now we've got three people for three now we've got three people for three buckets, and we want to send buckets, and we want to send buckets, and we want to send personalized message to each of these personalized message to each of these personalized message to each of these people. As Matt said, you want to keep people. As Matt said, you want to keep people. As Matt said, you want to keep your list size under 50. your list size under 50. your list size under 50. Let's not put all of these three people Let's not put all of these three people Let's not put all of these three people in the same campaign with the same in the same campaign with the same in the same campaign with the same message and just hope something lands. message and just hope something lands. message and just hope something lands. No, put put a little bit of extra effort No, put put a little bit of extra effort No, put put a little bit of extra effort in. That's going to increase your reply in. That's going to increase your reply in. That's going to increase your reply rate. It's going to more than double it rate. It's going to more than double it rate. It's going to more than double it if you can write a specific message to if you can write a specific message to if you can write a specific message to the specific person based around their the specific person based around their the specific person based around their ability to make decisions in the buying ability to make decisions in the buying ability to make decisions in the buying process. And then again, just to double down on And then again, just to double down on it, smaller sequence of less than 100 it, smaller sequence of less than 100 it, smaller sequence of less than 100 recipients. We can even tighten it up to recipients. We can even tighten it up to recipients. We can even tighten it up to less than 50 recipients. It's going to less than 50 recipients. It's going to less than 50 recipients. It's going to really increase your really increase your really increase your your reply rates. We see it under 100 your reply rates. We see it under 100 your reply rates. We see it under 100 recipients generates 158% more replies recipients generates 158% more replies recipients generates 158% more replies than sequences with 500 plus. than sequences with 500 plus. than sequences with 500 plus. Cuz if you're going above 500, we can Cuz if you're going above 500, we can Cuz if you're going above 500, we can realistically make an educated guess realistically make an educated guess realistically make an educated guess there's a lot of people there's a lot of people there's a lot of people receiving the same message over and over receiving the same message over and over receiving the same message over and over again even if it doesn't apply to them.

again even if it doesn't apply to them. again even if it doesn't apply to them. But we can make it super targeted, super But we can make it super targeted, super But we can make it super targeted, super personalized even at bit of scale personalized even at bit of scale personalized even at bit of scale where we're only going to see positive where we're only going to see positive where we're only going to see positive things happen. >> Thanks, Oliver. So, before I actually >> Thanks, Oliver. So, before I actually jump in, um I want to say something jump in, um I want to say something jump in, um I want to say something which is which is which is people that are usually watch this, they people that are usually watch this, they people that are usually watch this, they get all excited about doing get all excited about doing get all excited about doing personalization. So, they sit down and personalization. So, they sit down and personalization. So, they sit down and they just freeze because they try to they just freeze because they try to they just freeze because they try to build very complex very complex build very complex very complex build very complex very complex processes to actually define this processes to actually define this processes to actually define this personas. personas. personas. Uh what I what I give you in the next Uh what I what I give you in the next Uh what I what I give you in the next few minutes is basically a way that few minutes is basically a way that few minutes is basically a way that takes 10 minutes per segment, uh not a takes 10 minutes per segment, uh not a takes 10 minutes per segment, uh not a week. Simple four steps, uh all things week. Simple four steps, uh all things week. Simple four steps, uh all things that you can do right now and act upon. that you can do right now and act upon. that you can do right now and act upon. Um the first step uh is just three Um the first step uh is just three Um the first step uh is just three things. You need to write down three things. You need to write down three things. You need to write down three things. You don't need a 30 uh size things. You don't need a 30 uh size things. You don't need a 30 uh size persona template. You just need three. persona template. You just need three. persona template. You just need three. And that that is uh And that that is uh And that that is uh first, first, first, who who are these persons? And that who who are these persons? And that who who are these persons? And that means what's their title, what's their means what's their title, what's their means what's their title, what's their seniority, uh what's their team? So, seniority, uh what's their team? So, seniority, uh what's their team? So, that should be easy.

that should be easy. that should be easy. Number two, what do they care about? So, Number two, what do they care about? So, Number two, what do they care about? So, not what you're not what you're not what you're pitching to them, actually what is the pitching to them, actually what is the pitching to them, actually what is the outcome uh that they are measured on, outcome uh that they are measured on, outcome uh that they are measured on, where you can actually help them. where you can actually help them. where you can actually help them. How can you influence their um quarterly How can you influence their um quarterly How can you influence their um quarterly review, for example? review, for example? review, for example? And number three is usually the one that And number three is usually the one that And number three is usually the one that most people ignore, uh which is the most people ignore, uh which is the most people ignore, uh which is the reason why this person will likely reason why this person will likely reason why this person will likely ignore your email. ignore your email. ignore your email. So, for example, let's take the Oliver's So, for example, let's take the Oliver's So, for example, let's take the Oliver's uh CEO example of the in the 20 uh 250 uh CEO example of the in the 20 uh 250 uh CEO example of the in the 20 uh 250 person manufacturing firm. person manufacturing firm. person manufacturing firm. So, she's looking for uh cost reduction So, she's looking for uh cost reduction So, she's looking for uh cost reduction and process compliance. and process compliance. and process compliance. So, if you just send an email to this So, if you just send an email to this So, if you just send an email to this person saying person saying person saying uh let's have a quick chat about lean uh let's have a quick chat about lean uh let's have a quick chat about lean methodology, bang, delete. People don't methodology, bang, delete. People don't methodology, bang, delete. People don't care. care. care. Uh or if you say something like um Uh or if you say something like um Uh or if you say something like um I'd love to share a 30-minute overview I'd love to share a 30-minute overview I'd love to share a 30-minute overview of what what we do, again, people don't of what what we do, again, people don't of what what we do, again, people don't care. You actually need to talk about care. You actually need to talk about care. You actually need to talk about what show empathy. What is the pain that what show empathy. What is the pain that what show empathy. What is the pain that this person is feeling and how can you this person is feeling and how can you this person is feeling and how can you help that person? So, it's super help that person? So, it's super help that person? So, it's super important that you actually identify important that you actually identify important that you actually identify the reasons why these people might the reasons why these people might the reasons why these people might ignore you and be uh use that in your um ignore you and be uh use that in your um ignore you and be uh use that in your um sequences.

sequences. sequences. So, So, So, the second step uh is basically to put the second step uh is basically to put the second step uh is basically to put the contrast on the table. So, what what the contrast on the table. So, what what the contrast on the table. So, what what do I mean by that? I'm not looking do I mean by that? I'm not looking do I mean by that? I'm not looking I'm not saying that you need to be I'm not saying that you need to be I'm not saying that you need to be organized. Actually, the goal here is to organized. Actually, the goal here is to organized. Actually, the goal here is to stop from cheating. So, when you write stop from cheating. So, when you write stop from cheating. So, when you write personas on separate pieces uh of personas on separate pieces uh of personas on separate pieces uh of document, document, document, it will look like uh you are it will look like uh you are it will look like uh you are personalizing, but in the end uh personalizing, but in the end uh personalizing, but in the end uh things will end up very similar. So, things will end up very similar. So, things will end up very similar. So, when you put everything together, uh the when you put everything together, uh the when you put everything together, uh the bluff will basically come out. bluff will basically come out. bluff will basically come out. So, look at these roles, right? So, look at these roles, right? So, look at these roles, right? Here it becomes super clear what is the Here it becomes super clear what is the Here it becomes super clear what is the difference between talking to a founder, difference between talking to a founder, difference between talking to a founder, a CEO, or to a sales manager. a CEO, or to a sales manager. a CEO, or to a sales manager. So, the CEO, uh So, the CEO, uh So, the CEO, uh he cares about pipeline and survival. he cares about pipeline and survival. he cares about pipeline and survival. So, when he receives an email at 9:00 So, when he receives an email at 9:00 So, when he receives an email at 9:00 p.m. on a Tuesday, p.m. on a Tuesday, p.m. on a Tuesday, um they ask one simple question. um they ask one simple question. um they ask one simple question. How can this make me uh make more money? How can this make me uh make more money? How can this make me uh make more money? If the answer is not visible right in If the answer is not visible right in If the answer is not visible right in the first two uh lines, your email will the first two uh lines, your email will the first two uh lines, your email will be deleted or ignored.

be deleted or ignored. be deleted or ignored. In contrast, the sales manager is a In contrast, the sales manager is a In contrast, the sales manager is a different person living a totally different person living a totally different person living a totally different week. Um different week. Um different week. Um they are not concerned about survival. they are not concerned about survival. they are not concerned about survival. So, their concern is about the team is So, their concern is about the team is So, their concern is about the team is missing the quota, the VP is pressuring missing the quota, the VP is pressuring missing the quota, the VP is pressuring asking why. asking why. asking why. So, the the way they read your email is So, the the way they read your email is So, the the way they read your email is basically, will this help my team uh basically, will this help my team uh basically, will this help my team uh without me having to defend a new tool without me having to defend a new tool without me having to defend a new tool to the IT department? to the IT department? to the IT department? And if the answer is no, And if the answer is no, And if the answer is no, then your email is ignored. then your email is ignored. then your email is ignored. And again, you're selling the same And again, you're selling the same And again, you're selling the same product or service, uh the same value, product or service, uh the same value, product or service, uh the same value, but these two different people see uh but these two different people see uh but these two different people see uh your product or and your solution your product or and your solution your product or and your solution completely different. And you have to completely different. And you have to completely different. And you have to convey that. You have to show that convey that. You have to show that convey that. You have to show that empathy to your recipient in order to empathy to your recipient in order to empathy to your recipient in order to make it super relevant. make it super relevant. make it super relevant. Um Um Um then how does this translate in actual then how does this translate in actual then how does this translate in actual copy, for example? So, for the founder, copy, for example? So, for the founder, copy, for example? So, for the founder, uh you would send a message that is uh you would send a message that is uh you would send a message that is super effective in showing how it will super effective in showing how it will super effective in showing how it will impact what he cares about.

impact what he cares about. impact what he cares about. In this case, In this case, In this case, you're sending him uh an actual number, you're sending him uh an actual number, you're sending him uh an actual number, and a plausible number. You're saying and a plausible number. You're saying and a plausible number. You're saying 300 decision-makers. You're not saying 300 decision-makers. You're not saying 300 decision-makers. You're not saying unlimited, you're not saying 10x, you're unlimited, you're not saying 10x, you're unlimited, you're not saying 10x, you're just providing an objective number, just providing an objective number, just providing an objective number, which is easy to trust. which is easy to trust. which is easy to trust. Uh and then you also show the Uh and then you also show the Uh and then you also show the trade-offs. So, trade-offs. So, trade-offs. So, one of the reasons a CEO might ignore one of the reasons a CEO might ignore one of the reasons a CEO might ignore your email is because you're just asking your email is because you're just asking your email is because you're just asking to put a lot of effort in something he to put a lot of effort in something he to put a lot of effort in something he doesn't know. And here you're just doesn't know. And here you're just doesn't know. And here you're just saying, "This just takes 2 hours a day, saying, "This just takes 2 hours a day, saying, "This just takes 2 hours a day, and that's it." and that's it." and that's it." For the sales manager, again, same For the sales manager, again, same For the sales manager, again, same product, same value, you write something product, same value, you write something product, same value, you write something totally different, which is tailored to totally different, which is tailored to totally different, which is tailored to their pain. Again, empathy. their pain. Again, empathy. their pain. Again, empathy. Uh, and you'll say something like, "Your Uh, and you'll say something like, "Your Uh, and you'll say something like, "Your Your reps are spending more time Your reps are spending more time Your reps are spending more time building lists and actually sending building lists and actually sending building lists and actually sending emails." emails." emails." Here's how, uh, you can actually fix Here's how, uh, you can actually fix Here's how, uh, you can actually fix that without adding new tools. So, that without adding new tools. So, that without adding new tools. So, you're already speaking directly to the you're already speaking directly to the you're already speaking directly to the pain pain of the sales manager, the pain pain of the sales manager, the pain pain of the sales manager, the results and the outcome of their team, results and the outcome of their team, results and the outcome of their team, and you're already, uh, mentioning also and you're already, uh, mentioning also and you're already, uh, mentioning also possible objection, which is if your possible objection, which is if your possible objection, which is if your tool is very complex to integrate, you tool is very complex to integrate, you tool is very complex to integrate, you will feel that you will have a lot of will feel that you will have a lot of will feel that you will have a lot of work to actually make it happen, and you work to actually make it happen, and you work to actually make it happen, and you will ignore your your email. So, right will ignore your your email. So, right will ignore your your email. So, right up front you're saying, "A, this is up front you're saying, "A, this is up front you're saying, "A, this is easy."

And And why is this empathy important? Like, we why is this empathy important? Like, we why is this empathy important? Like, we have a lot of data, and if you read the have a lot of data, and if you read the have a lot of data, and if you read the the cold, uh, email report that, uh, the cold, uh, email report that, uh, the cold, uh, email report that, uh, James shares on the chat, uh, you'll see James shares on the chat, uh, you'll see James shares on the chat, uh, you'll see more data on that, but I just wanted to more data on that, but I just wanted to more data on that, but I just wanted to highlight this very specific case. highlight this very specific case. highlight this very specific case. Um, Um, Um, it's about it's about it's about if you personalize an email, your reply if you personalize an email, your reply if you personalize an email, your reply rates are 56% higher than rates are 56% higher than rates are 56% higher than non-personalized emails. But, I want to non-personalized emails. But, I want to non-personalized emails. But, I want to be precise here about, um, be precise here about, um, be precise here about, um, what personalization means or using a what personalization means or using a what personalization means or using a custom attribute means. So, it's not custom attribute means. So, it's not custom attribute means. So, it's not about, "Hey, Sarah, I hope you are about, "Hey, Sarah, I hope you are about, "Hey, Sarah, I hope you are well." That's not a personalized email. well." That's not a personalized email. well." That's not a personalized email. That's just That's just That's just state of the art, uh, cold outreach. state of the art, uh, cold outreach. state of the art, uh, cold outreach. What I mean personalize is actually What I mean personalize is actually What I mean personalize is actually you've defined your persona, and you're you've defined your persona, and you're you've defined your persona, and you're sending a message that is showing sending a message that is showing sending a message that is showing empathy to that persona, that person's empathy to that persona, that person's empathy to that persona, that person's specific pain, and specific goals, and specific pain, and specific goals, and specific pain, and specific goals, and specific objections. So, that's what specific objections. So, that's what specific objections. So, that's what personalization means. It goes beyond personalization means. It goes beyond personalization means. It goes beyond just using first name, last name, and just using first name, last name, and just using first name, last name, and company. It goes actually into company. It goes actually into company. It goes actually into making sure your sequence talks directly making sure your sequence talks directly making sure your sequence talks directly to the to the audience.

to the to the audience. to the to the audience. And so, And so, And so, the third step after after you do this, the third step after after you do this, the third step after after you do this, now you have uh created your personas, now you have uh created your personas, now you have uh created your personas, you have identified how to speak you have identified how to speak you have identified how to speak differently uh to them. But then, the differently uh to them. But then, the differently uh to them. But then, the next question is you have 500 targets. next question is you have 500 targets. next question is you have 500 targets. Surely Surely Surely Of course, you want to send emails to Of course, you want to send emails to Of course, you want to send emails to all of them immediately. But actually, all of them immediately. But actually, all of them immediately. But actually, you need to prioritize, and you want to you need to prioritize, and you want to you need to prioritize, and you want to do that in order to again stay relevant. do that in order to again stay relevant. do that in order to again stay relevant. So, So, So, we The way I like to do this is we The way I like to do this is we The way I like to do this is basically to to look at this basically to to look at this basically to to look at this prioritization matrix. So, uh one axis prioritization matrix. So, uh one axis prioritization matrix. So, uh one axis is the ability to buy. So, do Does the is the ability to buy. So, do Does the is the ability to buy. So, do Does the recipient has or not the budget and the recipient has or not the budget and the recipient has or not the budget and the authority to buy your solution? And the authority to buy your solution? And the authority to buy your solution? And the other hand is Does the recipient has the other hand is Does the recipient has the other hand is Does the recipient has the pain or feels the pain about uh that pain or feels the pain about uh that pain or feels the pain about uh that your solution might uh be able to your solution might uh be able to your solution might uh be able to alleviate? alleviate? alleviate? So, the easy pick here is that uh is the So, the easy pick here is that uh is the So, the easy pick here is that uh is the top right. So, if top right. So, if top right. So, if an individual has the the willingness, an individual has the the willingness, an individual has the the willingness, so he feels the pain, and has the so he feels the pain, and has the so he feels the pain, and has the ability, so he has the budget, those are ability, so he has the budget, those are ability, so he has the budget, those are the the top priorities uh for you to the the top priorities uh for you to the the top priorities uh for you to reach out to. Engage them now, not in a reach out to. Engage them now, not in a reach out to. Engage them now, not in a week, not in a month. Those are the ones week, not in a month. Those are the ones week, not in a month. Those are the ones you want to target immediately.

you want to target immediately. you want to target immediately. On the top left, you have the the the On the top left, you have the the the On the top left, you have the the the persons that have a budget, um persons that have a budget, um persons that have a budget, um but they don't see the pain yet. It but they don't see the pain yet. It but they don't see the pain yet. It doesn't mean it's a no, it's basically a doesn't mean it's a no, it's basically a doesn't mean it's a no, it's basically a not yet. If they don't have the pain, not yet. If they don't have the pain, not yet. If they don't have the pain, just don't engage them with with them just don't engage them with with them just don't engage them with with them immediately, immediately, immediately, but keep them aware about what's but keep them aware about what's but keep them aware about what's happening. happening. happening. On the bottom right uh is the uh the On the bottom right uh is the uh the On the bottom right uh is the uh the persons that have persons that have persons that have the pain, so they have the willingness the pain, so they have the willingness the pain, so they have the willingness to buy your solution, but they have low to buy your solution, but they have low to buy your solution, but they have low ability. So, either they don't have the ability. So, either they don't have the ability. So, either they don't have the budget or they don't have the authority budget or they don't have the authority budget or they don't have the authority to do that. So, those are the type of to do that. So, those are the type of to do that. So, those are the type of persons that you shouldn't not drop, you persons that you shouldn't not drop, you persons that you shouldn't not drop, you should nurture them. You should push should nurture them. You should push should nurture them. You should push them educational content, ideas, promote them educational content, ideas, promote them educational content, ideas, promote your product, but without being too your product, but without being too your product, but without being too pushy to actually or too salesy. You pushy to actually or too salesy. You pushy to actually or too salesy. You should help them becoming your champion. should help them becoming your champion. should help them becoming your champion. So, you should nurture these people so So, you should nurture these people so So, you should nurture these people so that they can promote your solution that they can promote your solution that they can promote your solution within the the organization and um help within the the organization and um help within the the organization and um help you uh again fighting the blockers, you uh again fighting the blockers, you uh again fighting the blockers, getting to the decision-makers and all getting to the decision-makers and all getting to the decision-makers and all of that.

of that. of that. On the bottom left, no pain, no budget On the bottom left, no pain, no budget On the bottom left, no pain, no budget line. This is uh there is a line. This is uh there is a line. This is uh there is a potential that you keep these people on potential that you keep these people on potential that you keep these people on the list, but in the end um you should the list, but in the end um you should the list, but in the end um you should not reach out to these people because not reach out to these people because not reach out to these people because they will not uh engage with you. they will not uh engage with you. they will not uh engage with you. Um so, Um so, Um so, once you do this, once you do this, once you do this, how do you actually find the high how do you actually find the high how do you actually find the high ability ones? ability ones? ability ones? Uh you Uh you Uh you First of all, you don't want to target First of all, you don't want to target First of all, you don't want to target just the people that use your tool. just the people that use your tool. just the people that use your tool. For example, the marketing analyst is For example, the marketing analyst is For example, the marketing analyst is not the budget owner. The product not the budget owner. The product not the budget owner. The product management is also not the budget owner. management is also not the budget owner. management is also not the budget owner. So, ideally uh inside uh Hunter's So, ideally uh inside uh Hunter's So, ideally uh inside uh Hunter's Discover feature, my recommendation is Discover feature, my recommendation is Discover feature, my recommendation is that when you're trying to look for the that when you're trying to look for the that when you're trying to look for the right contacts and the contacts that right contacts and the contacts that right contacts and the contacts that have the ability uh to buy your have the ability uh to buy your have the ability uh to buy your solution, I would go with the solution, I would go with the solution, I would go with the decision-maker filter so that you can decision-maker filter so that you can decision-maker filter so that you can jump uh straight into whether it owns jump uh straight into whether it owns jump uh straight into whether it owns the outcome. the outcome. the outcome. Number two, Number two, Number two, if you're targeting a larger company, um if you're targeting a larger company, um if you're targeting a larger company, um you just you shouldn't avoid going just you just you shouldn't avoid going just you just you shouldn't avoid going just to the decision-makers. You should also to the decision-makers. You should also to the decision-makers. You should also try in parallel a bottom a bottom-up try in parallel a bottom a bottom-up try in parallel a bottom a bottom-up approach. So, email the doers, email the approach. So, email the doers, email the approach. So, email the doers, email the people that actually have the pain, but people that actually have the pain, but people that actually have the pain, but they don't have the authority.

they don't have the authority. they don't have the authority. Um and so, Um and so, Um and so, when a senior individual contributor when a senior individual contributor when a senior individual contributor brings to their manager solution, brings to their manager solution, brings to their manager solution, the way the manager, so the the way the manager, so the the way the manager, so the decision-maker, actually looks at that decision-maker, actually looks at that decision-maker, actually looks at that solution is completely different. So, if solution is completely different. So, if solution is completely different. So, if you promote it to the um the ones that you promote it to the um the ones that you promote it to the um the ones that have the pain but might not have the have the pain but might not have the have the pain but might not have the budget, it might help you actually budget, it might help you actually budget, it might help you actually promote. So, you should take bottom-up promote. So, you should take bottom-up promote. So, you should take bottom-up influence the the champions and top-down influence the the champions and top-down influence the the champions and top-down also reach out to the decision-makers so also reach out to the decision-makers so also reach out to the decision-makers so that this combination makes uh a very that this combination makes uh a very that this combination makes uh a very positive impact on your recipients. positive impact on your recipients. positive impact on your recipients. So, next step is So, next step is So, next step is how do you do the willingness, right? how do you do the willingness, right? how do you do the willingness, right? How do identify the willingness uh of How do identify the willingness uh of How do identify the willingness uh of the people? the people? the people? Um Um Um The question is what you're trying to The question is what you're trying to The question is what you're trying to convey here is what are the people that convey here is what are the people that convey here is what are the people that need it right now. need it right now. need it right now. Usually, uh Usually, uh Usually, uh there are a few signals that you should there are a few signals that you should there are a few signals that you should use. The The strongest one, in my use. The The strongest one, in my use. The The strongest one, in my opinion, is the hiring signal. So, if a opinion, is the hiring signal. So, if a opinion, is the hiring signal. So, if a company is posting uh a role that your company is posting uh a role that your company is posting uh a role that your product uh actually solves or helps, product uh actually solves or helps, product uh actually solves or helps, this is a clear sign that they have a this is a clear sign that they have a this is a clear sign that they have a problem that area or that they they are problem that area or that they they are problem that area or that they they are trying to optimize uh something that trying to optimize uh something that trying to optimize uh something that area. So, that's a sign you should area. So, that's a sign you should area. So, that's a sign you should engage with them right now. There is an engage with them right now. There is an engage with them right now. There is an opportunity there.

opportunity there. opportunity there. Um another signal I I usually use is the Um another signal I I usually use is the Um another signal I I usually use is the funding one. funding one. funding one. Usually, when a company receives Usually, when a company receives Usually, when a company receives funding, uh it means they have a budget, funding, uh it means they have a budget, funding, uh it means they have a budget, so they have the ability to buy, so they have the ability to buy, so they have the ability to buy, uh but they also have a deadline to uh but they also have a deadline to uh but they also have a deadline to execute that by budget and they have to execute that by budget and they have to execute that by budget and they have to show results. So, again, that's an show results. So, again, that's an show results. So, again, that's an opportunity for you to engage. opportunity for you to engage. opportunity for you to engage. Other um Other um Other um signals or filters you can use to signals or filters you can use to signals or filters you can use to identify the target personas is uh identify the target personas is uh identify the target personas is uh focusing on the tech stack, so trying to focusing on the tech stack, so trying to focusing on the tech stack, so trying to see if people are using your see if people are using your see if people are using your competitors, uh or again, competitors, uh or again, competitors, uh or again, if you can do this at uh on your own for if you can do this at uh on your own for if you can do this at uh on your own for the specific decision-makers you want to the specific decision-makers you want to the specific decision-makers you want to target, you should look at social media, target, you should look at social media, target, you should look at social media, try to identify people if those people try to identify people if those people try to identify people if those people are talking about your uh the pain you are talking about your uh the pain you are talking about your uh the pain you solve, and use that as a leverage in solve, and use that as a leverage in solve, and use that as a leverage in your sequence to to get engagement. your sequence to to get engagement. your sequence to to get engagement. So, So, So, the next step is to basically go into the next step is to basically go into the next step is to basically go into Hunter and find them there. Hunter and find them there. Hunter and find them there. Um Um Um six steps. You go to discover, six steps. You go to discover, six steps. You go to discover, uh you define your target company and uh you define your target company and uh you define your target company and now you can use the our new AI system in now you can use the our new AI system in now you can use the our new AI system in discover, which basically can define discover, which basically can define discover, which basically can define your targets in plain language.

your targets in plain language. your targets in plain language. Um the AI system will basically give you Um the AI system will basically give you Um the AI system will basically give you the results. They will suggest the results. They will suggest the results. They will suggest refinements so that you will get more refinements so that you will get more refinements so that you will get more tailored tailored tailored uh companies for the value proposition uh companies for the value proposition uh companies for the value proposition that you're trying to pitch. that you're trying to pitch. that you're trying to pitch. Number two, after you identify the Number two, after you identify the Number two, after you identify the companies that you want to target, uh companies that you want to target, uh companies that you want to target, uh you basically go and jump into finding you basically go and jump into finding you basically go and jump into finding people within those companies. people within those companies. people within those companies. And then my recommendation is that um And then my recommendation is that um And then my recommendation is that um you use um you use um you use um mainly job titles, but also you focus on mainly job titles, but also you focus on mainly job titles, but also you focus on uh contacts for which you have an email uh contacts for which you have an email uh contacts for which you have an email that is uh verified or is at least an that is uh verified or is at least an that is uh verified or is at least an accept all. So, you should avoid accept all. So, you should avoid accept all. So, you should avoid unverified uh contacts. unverified uh contacts. unverified uh contacts. Number three, as Number three, as Number three, as uh Matt already mentioned, um uh Matt already mentioned, um uh Matt already mentioned, um you should have one lead list per role. you should have one lead list per role. you should have one lead list per role. So, you should not mix product managers So, you should not mix product managers So, you should not mix product managers with CTOs or head of marketing. So, you with CTOs or head of marketing. So, you with CTOs or head of marketing. So, you should make sure that each list is again should make sure that each list is again should make sure that each list is again tailored specific for the persona that tailored specific for the persona that tailored specific for the persona that you're trying to reach. you're trying to reach. you're trying to reach. Um Um Um and then and then and then three or four emails per list, make that three or four emails per list, make that three or four emails per list, make that those emails super relevant as uh Oliver those emails super relevant as uh Oliver those emails super relevant as uh Oliver already mentioned.

already mentioned. already mentioned. If you believe that those uh recipients If you believe that those uh recipients If you believe that those uh recipients are persons that may have multiple hats, are persons that may have multiple hats, are persons that may have multiple hats, make sure that your sequence talks about make sure that your sequence talks about make sure that your sequence talks about the different uh champion, the blocker, the different uh champion, the blocker, the different uh champion, the blocker, um um um and the decision maker within that. and the decision maker within that. and the decision maker within that. And And And to remember just to recall the number to remember just to recall the number to remember just to recall the number that Oliver shared before like that Oliver shared before like that Oliver shared before like sequences under 100 recipients get 158% sequences under 100 recipients get 158% sequences under 100 recipients get 158% more replies than uh those sequences more replies than uh those sequences more replies than uh those sequences that have more than 500 recipients. that have more than 500 recipients. that have more than 500 recipients. So, if you do this process right, So, if you do this process right, So, if you do this process right, and I and I and I uh believe me, this is not as complex as uh believe me, this is not as complex as uh believe me, this is not as complex as it seems, it seems, it seems, uh you will get much better results in uh you will get much better results in uh you will get much better results in your sequences. So, this is the whole your sequences. So, this is the whole your sequences. So, this is the whole framework. Uh three things per persona framework. Uh three things per persona framework. Uh three things per persona you need to do. Uh add table to make you need to do. Uh add table to make you need to do. Uh add table to make sure that you see the contracts and you sure that you see the contracts and you sure that you see the contracts and you see the differences between your see the differences between your see the differences between your different personas. And then prioritize different personas. And then prioritize different personas. And then prioritize basically the people that have the basically the people that have the basically the people that have the ability to buy and the pain right now uh ability to buy and the pain right now uh ability to buy and the pain right now uh that you can help them solve. And you that you can help them solve. And you that you can help them solve. And you can do that all of that within Hunter. can do that all of that within Hunter. can do that all of that within Hunter. Matt, floor is yours.

>> Thanks, Ruby. >> Thanks, Ruby. Well, Well, Well, what's next? How do we put this into what's next? How do we put this into what's next? How do we put this into practice? That's the real question. Um practice? That's the real question. Um practice? That's the real question. Um we we always want to try to make this as we we always want to try to make this as we we always want to try to make this as consumable as possible. So, hopefully consumable as possible. So, hopefully consumable as possible. So, hopefully we've we've accomplished that today and we've we've accomplished that today and we've we've accomplished that today and um um um anything you felt was reiterated was due anything you felt was reiterated was due anything you felt was reiterated was due to importance. So, here is a one-page to importance. So, here is a one-page to importance. So, here is a one-page plan plan plan um that you can use to kind of guide um that you can use to kind of guide um that you can use to kind of guide your thinking about this process. Um your thinking about this process. Um your thinking about this process. Um I think 60 seconds is probably fair. I I think 60 seconds is probably fair. I I think 60 seconds is probably fair. I think I probably think I probably think I probably look at this a little bit longer than look at this a little bit longer than look at this a little bit longer than that, James, but 60 seconds is about that, James, but 60 seconds is about that, James, but 60 seconds is about right. Um this is kind of how you can right. Um this is kind of how you can right. Um this is kind of how you can think about a single target segment. think about a single target segment. think about a single target segment. Um Um Um the first thing is your company type the first thing is your company type the first thing is your company type and the person in that organization that and the person in that organization that and the person in that organization that feels pain. feels pain. feels pain. Um Um Um what do they care about? What's their what do they care about? What's their what do they care about? What's their job title? You know, what do you think job title? You know, what do you think job title? You know, what do you think somebody feeling that pain is going to somebody feeling that pain is going to somebody feeling that pain is going to respond to in the fewest number of respond to in the fewest number of respond to in the fewest number of words, right? Um so, the person who words, right? Um so, the person who words, right? Um so, the person who feels the pain, that's a great place to feels the pain, that's a great place to feels the pain, that's a great place to start. Hey, you know, I mean, by the start. Hey, you know, I mean, by the start. Hey, you know, I mean, by the way, if you've ever received an email way, if you've ever received an email way, if you've ever received an email like that, nothing gets straight to your like that, nothing gets straight to your like that, nothing gets straight to your eyeballs into your brain faster than eyeballs into your brain faster than eyeballs into your brain faster than someone emailing you about the very someone emailing you about the very someone emailing you about the very specific pain you feel every day or that specific pain you feel every day or that specific pain you feel every day or that you feel once a week or that you're in you feel once a week or that you're in you feel once a week or that you're in the middle of feeling. So, I can the middle of feeling. So, I can the middle of feeling. So, I can definitely highlight how valuable that definitely highlight how valuable that definitely highlight how valuable that piece is.

piece is. piece is. Um, there's the decision-maker. Again, Um, there's the decision-maker. Again, Um, there's the decision-maker. Again, same concept. Title, what do they care same concept. Title, what do they care same concept. Title, what do they care about? What's like the fewest number of about? What's like the fewest number of about? What's like the fewest number of words where you could potentially speak words where you could potentially speak words where you could potentially speak to to to their role in this their role in this their role in this in this process or their role related to in this process or their role related to in this process or their role related to that pain point. Um, the blocker. that pain point. Um, the blocker. that pain point. Um, the blocker. Um, that is really kind of as as we Um, that is really kind of as as we Um, that is really kind of as as we talked about earlier, you're almost kind talked about earlier, you're almost kind talked about earlier, you're almost kind of trying to circumvent of trying to circumvent of trying to circumvent uh, somebody closing the door on you uh, somebody closing the door on you uh, somebody closing the door on you later. And so, what you're really trying later. And so, what you're really trying later. And so, what you're really trying to do is provide evidence, provide value to do is provide evidence, provide value to do is provide evidence, provide value that when somebody else later in the that when somebody else later in the that when somebody else later in the organization brings up your company's organization brings up your company's organization brings up your company's name and solution, this person has name and solution, this person has name and solution, this person has already gotten some data points already gotten some data points already gotten some data points presented to them that kind of helps presented to them that kind of helps presented to them that kind of helps take away their potential rejection or take away their potential rejection or take away their potential rejection or their potential blocker. their potential blocker. their potential blocker. And then, once you have all of this And then, once you have all of this And then, once you have all of this together, together, together, start with what's the first step. So, start with what's the first step. So, start with what's the first step. So, who do I email first? What's the right who do I email first? What's the right who do I email first? What's the right way to send that message? How do I make way to send that message? How do I make way to send that message? How do I make sure that it's tailored to one of these sure that it's tailored to one of these sure that it's tailored to one of these specific key points?

specific key points? specific key points? Um, Um, Um, it is 60 seconds, but sometimes just it is 60 seconds, but sometimes just it is 60 seconds, but sometimes just clarifying who these people are, writing clarifying who these people are, writing clarifying who these people are, writing them down, and trying to summarize in as them down, and trying to summarize in as them down, and trying to summarize in as few words as possible the one-line few words as possible the one-line few words as possible the one-line message that's going to get their message that's going to get their message that's going to get their attention. Um, just going through that attention. Um, just going through that attention. Um, just going through that exercise can be really, really exercise can be really, really exercise can be really, really illuminating about how to write the rest illuminating about how to write the rest illuminating about how to write the rest of the content for this email, for this of the content for this email, for this of the content for this email, for this audience. And once you've kind of nailed audience. And once you've kind of nailed audience. And once you've kind of nailed it down for one person in the in in that it down for one person in the in in that it down for one person in the in in that org or one person who represents that org or one person who represents that org or one person who represents that persona, persona, persona, building a list of 50 or 100 and building a list of 50 or 100 and building a list of 50 or 100 and breaking that down into small chunks breaking that down into small chunks breaking that down into small chunks should be fairly easy after that. So, should be fairly easy after that. So, should be fairly easy after that. So, um, this is a great way to start to um, this is a great way to start to um, this is a great way to start to think about the buying persona in your think about the buying persona in your think about the buying persona in your content, how to structure that. Um, content, how to structure that. Um, content, how to structure that. Um, we also we also we also in a sort of macro sense is also in a sort of macro sense is also in a sort of macro sense is also thinking about like how do you think thinking about like how do you think thinking about like how do you think about reaching out to them multiple about reaching out to them multiple about reaching out to them multiple times throughout the year. times throughout the year. times throughout the year. Um look, the reality is and I've said Um look, the reality is and I've said Um look, the reality is and I've said this before, so if you've heard it, I this before, so if you've heard it, I this before, so if you've heard it, I apologize, but it's really important to apologize, but it's really important to apologize, but it's really important to remember and that is that you will remember and that is that you will remember and that is that you will almost never almost never almost never intentionally get timing right.

intentionally get timing right. intentionally get timing right. You can't figure out there's not enough You can't figure out there's not enough You can't figure out there's not enough signal in the universe to let you know signal in the universe to let you know signal in the universe to let you know proactively or preemptively when to proactively or preemptively when to proactively or preemptively when to reach out to somebody based on their reach out to somebody based on their reach out to somebody based on their pain. You can get close. pain. You can get close. pain. You can get close. You can get directionally good, but You can get directionally good, but You can get directionally good, but you're never going to nail it. When you you're never going to nail it. When you you're never going to nail it. When you nail it, it's luck. Let me be clear. And nail it, it's luck. Let me be clear. And nail it, it's luck. Let me be clear. And so what you want to be thinking about is so what you want to be thinking about is so what you want to be thinking about is the first time I do this, it may not the first time I do this, it may not the first time I do this, it may not work. work. work. How many at bats can I take? How many How many at bats can I take? How many How many at bats can I take? How many times can I reach out to this person in times can I reach out to this person in times can I reach out to this person in the course of the next 12 months to try the course of the next 12 months to try the course of the next 12 months to try to make sure I'm going to hit that to make sure I'm going to hit that to make sure I'm going to hit that timing when it does occur. Um and so timing when it does occur. Um and so timing when it does occur. Um and so what we're putting together, this is what we're putting together, this is what we're putting together, this is coming soon. coming soon. coming soon. It's what we're what we're calling an It's what we're what we're calling an It's what we're what we're calling an outreach planner. Uh we're trying to be outreach planner. Uh we're trying to be outreach planner. Uh we're trying to be very literal. Uh but what it's supposed very literal. Uh but what it's supposed very literal. Uh but what it's supposed to do is give you sort of a 12-month to do is give you sort of a 12-month to do is give you sort of a 12-month guide or 12-month look at how should you guide or 12-month look at how should you guide or 12-month look at how should you think about ongoing research. Um think about ongoing research. Um think about ongoing research. Um the goal is to give you two to three the goal is to give you two to three the goal is to give you two to three campaign ideas that you can run every campaign ideas that you can run every campaign ideas that you can run every month mapped out to B2B buying cycles. month mapped out to B2B buying cycles. month mapped out to B2B buying cycles. Keep in mind, these are going to be sort Keep in mind, these are going to be sort Keep in mind, these are going to be sort of generic generic buying cycles, but of generic generic buying cycles, but of generic generic buying cycles, but you should tune that to your own you should tune that to your own you should tune that to your own industry. It should be a good guide to industry. It should be a good guide to industry. It should be a good guide to kind of give you a starting point. Um kind of give you a starting point. Um kind of give you a starting point. Um it's going to have tips, it's going to have tips, it's going to have tips, uh best practices, uh a lot of the uh best practices, uh a lot of the uh best practices, uh a lot of the research we're going to kind of package research we're going to kind of package research we're going to kind of package in in ways that can be very well used in in ways that can be very well used in in ways that can be very well used here. Um and then also, sorry, I skipped here. Um and then also, sorry, I skipped here. Um and then also, sorry, I skipped this, but four campaign types that we this, but four campaign types that we this, but four campaign types that we can run throughout the year. Um can run throughout the year. Um can run throughout the year. Um look, this is actually something that look, this is actually something that look, this is actually something that every industry should probably think every industry should probably think every industry should probably think about. You probably know some of the ebb about. You probably know some of the ebb about. You probably know some of the ebb and flow of your customer organizations

and flow of your customer organizations and flow of your customer organizations or your target prospect organizations. or your target prospect organizations. or your target prospect organizations. You know kind of peaks and valleys, you You know kind of peaks and valleys, you You know kind of peaks and valleys, you know, and if it's a heavily publicly know, and if it's a heavily publicly know, and if it's a heavily publicly traded, traded, traded, you know, ecosystem, then you're you know, ecosystem, then you're you know, ecosystem, then you're probably talking about quarters, probably talking about quarters, probably talking about quarters, you're talking about, you know, you're talking about, you know, you're talking about, you know, quarterly reports. They're trying to quarterly reports. They're trying to quarterly reports. They're trying to figure out how to get more revenue in by figure out how to get more revenue in by figure out how to get more revenue in by a certain timeline. So, you can start to a certain timeline. So, you can start to a certain timeline. So, you can start to kind of use the outreach planner that we kind of use the outreach planner that we kind of use the outreach planner that we provide soon to provide soon to provide soon to kind of apply to your own industry and kind of apply to your own industry and kind of apply to your own industry and figure out how do you try to not figure out how do you try to not figure out how do you try to not necessarily nail timing? You're not necessarily nail timing? You're not necessarily nail timing? You're not trying to guess it when they have the trying to guess it when they have the trying to guess it when they have the pain. You're trying to figure out how do pain. You're trying to figure out how do pain. You're trying to figure out how do you make sure that you put the right you make sure that you put the right you make sure that you put the right message in front of the right people, so message in front of the right people, so message in front of the right people, so that when the timing is right, that when the timing is right, that when the timing is right, it's there. They remember you. it's there. They remember you. it's there. They remember you. They will go back into that email. They They will go back into that email. They They will go back into that email. They will use their AI tool and say, "Hey, will use their AI tool and say, "Hey, will use their AI tool and say, "Hey, look through my email and find that look through my email and find that look through my email and find that message that that person sent me." Or message that that person sent me." Or message that that person sent me." Or it's fresh the next time you send the it's fresh the next time you send the it's fresh the next time you send the email, you get right to them. And so, email, you get right to them. And so, email, you get right to them. And so, like, like, like, this is not a one-and-done thing. this is not a one-and-done thing. this is not a one-and-done thing. It's you should never look at it as It's you should never look at it as It's you should never look at it as one-and-done. If you're on this call and one-and-done. If you're on this call and one-and-done. If you're on this call and even in the past you've tried this and even in the past you've tried this and even in the past you've tried this and it didn't work very well for you, it didn't work very well for you, it didn't work very well for you, don't think that that is indicative of don't think that that is indicative of don't think that that is indicative of future success.

future success. future success. There are ways to make this work for There are ways to make this work for There are ways to make this work for you, and I think a lot of the stuff you, and I think a lot of the stuff you, and I think a lot of the stuff we've talked about today is going to we've talked about today is going to we've talked about today is going to help. There's more to it. Outreach help. There's more to it. Outreach help. There's more to it. Outreach planner's coming. Look at the research planner's coming. Look at the research planner's coming. Look at the research if you haven't already. There's a bunch if you haven't already. There's a bunch if you haven't already. There's a bunch of good insights in there that are going of good insights in there that are going of good insights in there that are going to help make all of this more effective to help make all of this more effective to help make all of this more effective for you. for you. for you. I also want to point out there was a I also want to point out there was a I also want to point out there was a question from Ryan Rogers in the chat. question from Ryan Rogers in the chat. question from Ryan Rogers in the chat. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Ryan. I did overemphasize sending to 50 I did overemphasize sending to 50 I did overemphasize sending to 50 people. I didn't mean that that should people. I didn't mean that that should people. I didn't mean that that should be the sum total of your outreach be the sum total of your outreach be the sum total of your outreach process. I simply meant that like process. I simply meant that like process. I simply meant that like getting the individual list size within getting the individual list size within getting the individual list size within your overall list audience down to 50 is your overall list audience down to 50 is your overall list audience down to 50 is going to help make the targeting more going to help make the targeting more going to help make the targeting more more on point, but you should absolutely more on point, but you should absolutely more on point, but you should absolutely be trying to build the biggest, largest be trying to build the biggest, largest be trying to build the biggest, largest audience that you possibly can. That's audience that you possibly can. That's audience that you possibly can. That's really important. You should scale up really important. You should scale up really important. You should scale up your messaging. But by starting with your messaging. But by starting with your messaging. But by starting with smaller chunks, you're going to get the smaller chunks, you're going to get the smaller chunks, you're going to get the messaging more crisp before you reach messaging more crisp before you reach messaging more crisp before you reach out to the whole audience. You're going out to the whole audience. You're going out to the whole audience. You're going to nail down these personas. You're to nail down these personas. You're to nail down these personas. You're going to segment them into ways that's going to segment them into ways that's going to segment them into ways that's going to make the messaging more going to make the messaging more going to make the messaging more relevant. And so before you scale, relevant. And so before you scale, relevant. And so before you scale, before you focus on scale, using some of before you focus on scale, using some of before you focus on scale, using some of the techniques we've talked about today the techniques we've talked about today the techniques we've talked about today is just going to help make sure the is just going to help make sure the is just going to help make sure the maximum effect effectiveness is reached maximum effect effectiveness is reached maximum effect effectiveness is reached and that you get a better yield out of and that you get a better yield out of and that you get a better yield out of your outreach. To a certain extent, it your outreach. To a certain extent, it your outreach. To a certain extent, it is a numbers game. So what we're trying is a numbers game. So what we're trying is a numbers game. So what we're trying to help you do is optimize for the best to help you do is optimize for the best to help you do is optimize for the best results from that numbers game. And a results from that numbers game. And a results from that numbers game. And a list size of of 50, list size of of 50, list size of of 50, if it's a list of let's say 500,000, if it's a list of let's say 500,000, if it's a list of let's say 500,000, uh yes, absolutely reach all 500,000, uh yes, absolutely reach all 500,000, uh yes, absolutely reach all 500,000, but don't do it all at once. Break them but don't do it all at once. Break them but don't do it all at once. Break them down into smaller chunks like we've down into smaller chunks like we've down into smaller chunks like we've talked about today.

talked about today. talked about today. >> And to And to add on top of that, not >> And to And to add on top of that, not >> And to And to add on top of that, not only to smaller chunks, actually break only to smaller chunks, actually break only to smaller chunks, actually break them down to uh different personas. So them down to uh different personas. So them down to uh different personas. So actually the the the number 50 is a actually the the the number 50 is a actually the the the number 50 is a proxy of relevancy. So the larger the proxy of relevancy. So the larger the proxy of relevancy. So the larger the list, the harder it becomes for you to list, the harder it becomes for you to list, the harder it becomes for you to become relevant for everyone on that become relevant for everyone on that become relevant for everyone on that list. So list. So list. So once you start segmenting this list, you once you start segmenting this list, you once you start segmenting this list, you will be able to identify the smaller will be able to identify the smaller will be able to identify the smaller subsets where you can write something subsets where you can write something subsets where you can write something that is very crisp, very specific, very that is very crisp, very specific, very that is very crisp, very specific, very empathetic to that person. empathetic to that person. empathetic to that person. And as a result, And as a result, And as a result, uh instead of having one campaign for uh instead of having one campaign for uh instead of having one campaign for 500 people, you have 10 campaigns, each 500 people, you have 10 campaigns, each 500 people, you have 10 campaigns, each for 50 people, which are much more for 50 people, which are much more for 50 people, which are much more relevant and will yield much better relevant and will yield much better relevant and will yield much better results in the end. results in the end. results in the end. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. Now, been trying to keep up with Now, been trying to keep up with Now, been trying to keep up with questions as we go. Uh so has James. Um questions as we go. Uh so has James. Um questions as we go. Uh so has James. Um but this is the Q&A. So like the floor but this is the Q&A. So like the floor but this is the Q&A. So like the floor is yours. Please ask uh any questions is yours. Please ask uh any questions is yours. Please ask uh any questions either in chat or in the question either in chat or in the question either in chat or in the question section. If there's anything that we section. If there's anything that we section. If there's anything that we talked about today that you'd like more talked about today that you'd like more talked about today that you'd like more information on, information on, information on, um um um or just anything in general that you or just anything in general that you or just anything in general that you think can help your outreach, please think can help your outreach, please think can help your outreach, please don't hesitate to to ask. Uh don't hesitate to to ask. Uh don't hesitate to to ask. Uh we're all happy to dive in and share our we're all happy to dive in and share our we're all happy to dive in and share our expertise or knowledge or expertise or knowledge or expertise or knowledge or uh help troubleshoot with you.

uh help troubleshoot with you. uh help troubleshoot with you. Doesn't have to be Hunter specific, by Doesn't have to be Hunter specific, by Doesn't have to be Hunter specific, by the way. See George is typing. See George is typing. Got We've got typing happening. Some Got We've got typing happening. Some Got We've got typing happening. Some Some questions are coming. Some questions are coming. Some questions are coming. James, James, James, you mentioned Oh, sorry. James, real you mentioned Oh, sorry. James, real you mentioned Oh, sorry. James, real quick, you mentioned next month quick, you mentioned next month quick, you mentioned next month on the planner? on the planner? on the planner? >> Yes. So, everyone can expect a a release >> Yes. So, everyone can expect a a release >> Yes. So, everyone can expect a a release next month of of the planner. There'll next month of of the planner. There'll next month of of the planner. There'll be an accompanying be an accompanying be an accompanying webinar that we run to sort of release webinar that we run to sort of release webinar that we run to sort of release it. And it's it's going to help put a it. And it's it's going to help put a it. And it's it's going to help put a lot of what's been lot of what's been lot of what's been spoken about today and in previous spoken about today and in previous spoken about today and in previous webinars over the last four or five webinars over the last four or five webinars over the last four or five months really into into practice and months really into into practice and months really into into practice and give you, you know, guidance on what to give you, you know, guidance on what to give you, you know, guidance on what to be doing every month. It's I'm very be doing every month. It's I'm very be doing every month. It's I'm very excited and so is the team to be able to excited and so is the team to be able to excited and so is the team to be able to share that with everyone share that with everyone share that with everyone on the call today. on the call today. on the call today. >> Thanks, James. Let's see. Okay, we have Kristen Let's see. Okay, we have Kristen who asked, "Would love to hear your who asked, "Would love to hear your who asked, "Would love to hear your ideas on existing clients?" So, not cold ideas on existing clients?" So, not cold ideas on existing clients?" So, not cold outreach, but gaining more repeat outreach, but gaining more repeat outreach, but gaining more repeat business. Um business. Um business. Um it seems like it would be a different it seems like it would be a different it seems like it would be a different outreach. Yes, absolutely it would be.

outreach. Yes, absolutely it would be. outreach. Yes, absolutely it would be. Um Um Um I would say the majority of your cold I would say the majority of your cold I would say the majority of your cold messaging is done when it's a new messaging is done when it's a new messaging is done when it's a new opportunity. And so, a lot of what we opportunity. And so, a lot of what we opportunity. And so, a lot of what we talk about is based on that, but the talk about is based on that, but the talk about is based on that, but the principles are transferable. Um because principles are transferable. Um because principles are transferable. Um because often times, especially in really large often times, especially in really large often times, especially in really large organizations, you know, another organizations, you know, another organizations, you know, another department may have zero insight into department may have zero insight into department may have zero insight into what you're doing within the company what you're doing within the company what you're doing within the company already. Um the good news is if you're already. Um the good news is if you're already. Um the good news is if you're doing doing doing existing client outreach, you're trying existing client outreach, you're trying existing client outreach, you're trying to do like a land and expand strategy, to do like a land and expand strategy, to do like a land and expand strategy, the great news is you already have sort the great news is you already have sort the great news is you already have sort of a key data point within the of a key data point within the of a key data point within the organization, right? You can leverage organization, right? You can leverage organization, right? You can leverage social proof that's maybe more valuable social proof that's maybe more valuable social proof that's maybe more valuable to them. Or, honestly, when I've done to them. Or, honestly, when I've done to them. Or, honestly, when I've done it, one of my favorite is uh especially it, one of my favorite is uh especially it, one of my favorite is uh especially in big organizations, I'm already an in big organizations, I'm already an in big organizations, I'm already an approved vendor. approved vendor. approved vendor. So, hey, I'm on your approved vendor So, hey, I'm on your approved vendor So, hey, I'm on your approved vendor list. I'm working with such and such list. I'm working with such and such list. I'm working with such and such department, but I thought that this department, but I thought that this department, but I thought that this might be relevant to you, is a heck of a might be relevant to you, is a heck of a might be relevant to you, is a heck of a warm intro, right? And so I think warm intro, right? And so I think warm intro, right? And so I think there's a number of ways that you can uh there's a number of ways that you can uh there's a number of ways that you can uh that you can go in that direction, that you can go in that direction, that you can go in that direction, Kristen, that will help you reach out to Kristen, that will help you reach out to Kristen, that will help you reach out to existing clients. Um the thing that you existing clients. Um the thing that you existing clients. Um the thing that you probably don't want to do is make it probably don't want to do is make it probably don't want to do is make it seem like it's completely cold, right?

seem like it's completely cold, right? seem like it's completely cold, right? We you know, that can sometimes also We you know, that can sometimes also We you know, that can sometimes also backfire if as they go to start to go backfire if as they go to start to go backfire if as they go to start to go through their process, they start to through their process, they start to through their process, they start to submit forms to procurement, and they submit forms to procurement, and they submit forms to procurement, and they get told that this person's already a get told that this person's already a get told that this person's already a vendor, makes you look bad, makes them vendor, makes you look bad, makes them vendor, makes you look bad, makes them look bad, and so you know, you look bad, and so you know, you look bad, and so you know, you definitely it doesn't always make them definitely it doesn't always make them definitely it doesn't always make them look bad, but it definitely will make look bad, but it definitely will make look bad, but it definitely will make you look bad, so avoid it. Um but I you look bad, so avoid it. Um but I you look bad, so avoid it. Um but I think that that's think that that's think that that's uh it's a really good way to do it, um uh it's a really good way to do it, um uh it's a really good way to do it, um and it gives you a much warmer intro. and it gives you a much warmer intro. and it gives you a much warmer intro. Oliver, did you have anything to add? I Oliver, did you have anything to add? I Oliver, did you have anything to add? I noticed you were nodding along there. noticed you were nodding along there. noticed you were nodding along there. >> Yeah, no. I I think of course it depends >> Yeah, no. I I think of course it depends >> Yeah, no. I I think of course it depends on the context of the situation, but I on the context of the situation, but I on the context of the situation, but I do think you can take a very similar do think you can take a very similar do think you can take a very similar mindset into that situation as you would mindset into that situation as you would mindset into that situation as you would with cold outbound. So, think about who with cold outbound. So, think about who with cold outbound. So, think about who your champion is, think about who your your champion is, think about who your your champion is, think about who your your initial kind of pain level is, who your initial kind of pain level is, who your initial kind of pain level is, who the budget holder is, who the blocker the budget holder is, who the blocker the budget holder is, who the blocker might be. I So, while it's not cold might be. I So, while it's not cold might be. I So, while it's not cold outbound, the messaging's going to be a outbound, the messaging's going to be a outbound, the messaging's going to be a little bit different, I still think you little bit different, I still think you little bit different, I still think you take the same principles we discussed take the same principles we discussed take the same principles we discussed today, take it into that situation as today, take it into that situation as today, take it into that situation as you try to expand that relationship. Yeah, Matt's uh brought up a very Yeah, Matt's uh brought up a very interesting point. Um interesting point. Um interesting point. Um you can't go too deep when it comes to you can't go too deep when it comes to you can't go too deep when it comes to creating profiles on your various creating profiles on your various creating profiles on your various personas.

personas. personas. And one of those that you can do is And one of those that you can do is And one of those that you can do is called a DISC profile. There's also called a DISC profile. There's also called a DISC profile. There's also things like Myers-Briggs. Some of these things like Myers-Briggs. Some of these things like Myers-Briggs. Some of these are more or less um are more or less um are more or less um specific to the to the specific specific to the to the specific specific to the to the specific individual. So, you have to account for individual. So, you have to account for individual. So, you have to account for that. You have to kind of generalize a that. You have to kind of generalize a that. You have to kind of generalize a bit as as Matt's pointed out that he bit as as Matt's pointed out that he bit as as Matt's pointed out that he did. But there are a bunch of these did. But there are a bunch of these did. But there are a bunch of these profiling tools out there, and they can profiling tools out there, and they can profiling tools out there, and they can absolutely help make sure that you absolutely help make sure that you absolutely help make sure that you understand their sensitivities, pain understand their sensitivities, pain understand their sensitivities, pain points, ways to appeal to them in an points, ways to appeal to them in an points, ways to appeal to them in an organization. organization. organization. Um Um Um I will never sneer at anything that you I will never sneer at anything that you I will never sneer at anything that you can do that's going to help give you a can do that's going to help give you a can do that's going to help give you a more more more unique or detailed look at your persona unique or detailed look at your persona unique or detailed look at your persona in an organization. Anything that you in an organization. Anything that you in an organization. Anything that you can do like that is going to help. The can do like that is going to help. The can do like that is going to help. The better you know the person, the better better you know the person, the better better you know the person, the better you know the role, the better you know you know the role, the better you know you know the role, the better you know the the type of person, essentially the the the type of person, essentially the the the type of person, essentially the better data you have around your better data you have around your better data you have around your personas themselves, the better you can personas themselves, the better you can personas themselves, the better you can do at something like this, but uh do at something like this, but uh do at something like this, but uh highly recommend it. I don't think I've highly recommend it. I don't think I've highly recommend it. I don't think I've actually used Disc for this actually used Disc for this actually used Disc for this specifically, Matt, but uh specifically, Matt, but uh specifically, Matt, but uh I've used Disc for a bunch of other I've used Disc for a bunch of other I've used Disc for a bunch of other things, and I think it would work really things, and I think it would work really things, and I think it would work really well with that.

I think we have a couple more, James. Is I think we have a couple more, James. Is that right? Oh, a product question. Here we go, Oh, a product question. Here we go, really? really? really? >> Uh I'm just wondering if I'm pronouncing >> Uh I'm just wondering if I'm pronouncing >> Uh I'm just wondering if I'm pronouncing Discover right or not. I'm not sure I follow the question. I'm not sure I follow the question. Maybe maybe it's referring to the Maybe maybe it's referring to the Maybe maybe it's referring to the ability to add specific attributes to ability to add specific attributes to ability to add specific attributes to Discover. So, yeah, not in Discover, but Discover. So, yeah, not in Discover, but Discover. So, yeah, not in Discover, but in Hunter, if you save companies, then in Hunter, if you save companies, then in Hunter, if you save companies, then you can create you can create you can create your own attributes that will allow you your own attributes that will allow you your own attributes that will allow you to even be more detailed. Uh so, if to even be more detailed. Uh so, if to even be more detailed. Uh so, if there is something specific in your there is something specific in your there is something specific in your industry that you really want to have as industry that you really want to have as industry that you really want to have as an attribute, then you can definitely an attribute, then you can definitely an attribute, then you can definitely use that to basically research within use that to basically research within use that to basically research within your uh companies for targets and to your uh companies for targets and to your uh companies for targets and to force segmentation as well. force segmentation as well. force segmentation as well. >> George, if you're still on, if you don't >> George, if you're still on, if you don't >> George, if you're still on, if you don't mind um maybe adding a little bit of mind um maybe adding a little bit of mind um maybe adding a little bit of clarification on that question, I want clarification on that question, I want clarification on that question, I want to make sure we give you a to make sure we give you a to make sure we give you a the the exact answer to the question the the exact answer to the question the the exact answer to the question you're looking for. you're looking for. you're looking for. While George is doing that, James, do we While George is doing that, James, do we While George is doing that, James, do we have another question?

Ooh, this is a good one. How many emails Ooh, this is a good one. How many emails to send before judging your copy? Um to send before judging your copy? Um to send before judging your copy? Um broad sequence. broad sequence. broad sequence. I don't exactly know who we should be I don't exactly know who we should be I don't exactly know who we should be targeting yet, so you're kind of doing targeting yet, so you're kind of doing targeting yet, so you're kind of doing some experimentation early to try to get some experimentation early to try to get some experimentation early to try to get a sense for that. a sense for that. a sense for that. Um Yeah, how soon is too soon? Um I Yeah, how soon is too soon? Um I generally don't So, a couple variables. generally don't So, a couple variables. generally don't So, a couple variables. This is a broad sequence. This is a broad sequence. This is a broad sequence. From the way you've written this, it From the way you've written this, it From the way you've written this, it makes it sound like you might be makes it sound like you might be makes it sound like you might be addressing multiple personas potentially addressing multiple personas potentially addressing multiple personas potentially within the same audience. within the same audience. within the same audience. Um I'm going to make that assumption, so Um I'm going to make that assumption, so Um I'm going to make that assumption, so if that's not correct, please clarify. if that's not correct, please clarify. if that's not correct, please clarify. Um Um Um Generally, you want to get to 500 Generally, you want to get to 500 Generally, you want to get to 500 roughly uh roughly uh roughly uh people who have similar personas. people who have similar personas. people who have similar personas. That's going to be the best number to That's going to be the best number to That's going to be the best number to kind of the the kind of the smallest kind of the the kind of the smallest kind of the the kind of the smallest number is the best way to put it. That's number is the best way to put it. That's number is the best way to put it. That's going to likely be the smallest number going to likely be the smallest number going to likely be the smallest number that starts to give you some statistical that starts to give you some statistical that starts to give you some statistical significance around the response to the significance around the response to the significance around the response to the messaging. It also depends on how much messaging. It also depends on how much messaging. It also depends on how much you vary the messaging. Um but if you you vary the messaging. Um but if you you vary the messaging. Um but if you use reasonably similar messaging across use reasonably similar messaging across use reasonably similar messaging across 500 or so people, 500 or so people, 500 or so people, um that gives you a pretty decent sense um that gives you a pretty decent sense um that gives you a pretty decent sense for what should be working and what's for what should be working and what's for what should be working and what's not. If it's not at all, and if you're not. If it's not at all, and if you're not. If it's not at all, and if you're talking about 300 to 50 350 to 500 talking about 300 to 50 350 to 500 talking about 300 to 50 350 to 500 emails but one reply, emails but one reply, emails but one reply, there's you know, I'd want to look at there's you know, I'd want to look at there's you know, I'd want to look at things like open rates and things, but things like open rates and things, but things like open rates and things, but you probably are missing the mark you probably are missing the mark you probably are missing the mark somewhere in there, and there's more to somewhere in there, and there's more to somewhere in there, and there's more to do.

do. do. Um Um Um Oliver, what's a what what are some Oliver, what's a what what are some Oliver, what's a what what are some techniques that you've used when you've techniques that you've used when you've techniques that you've used when you've sent, you know, say under 500 but enough sent, you know, say under 500 but enough sent, you know, say under 500 but enough that it's above 250 and you're starting that it's above 250 and you're starting that it's above 250 and you're starting to get a sense of maybe there's to get a sense of maybe there's to get a sense of maybe there's something that's a disconnect between something that's a disconnect between something that's a disconnect between the messaging and the audience here. the messaging and the audience here. the messaging and the audience here. >> Yeah, I think it's a really good >> Yeah, I think it's a really good >> Yeah, I think it's a really good question, and again to further your question, and again to further your question, and again to further your point, I think it kind of comes down to point, I think it kind of comes down to point, I think it kind of comes down to how many people we're outreaching to how many people we're outreaching to how many people we're outreaching to begin with to give a specific number on begin with to give a specific number on begin with to give a specific number on it, but let's say we I know you said it, but let's say we I know you said it, but let's say we I know you said 500, we typically look at it around 250 500, we typically look at it around 250 500, we typically look at it around 250 emails. emails. emails. Um not necessarily to see if it's Um not necessarily to see if it's Um not necessarily to see if it's working or if it's not working, but if working or if it's not working, but if working or if it's not working, but if we have three variants going out at we have three variants going out at we have three variants going out at once, and variant A is at 250 cents, once, and variant A is at 250 cents, once, and variant A is at 250 cents, variant B is at 250 cents, variant C is variant B is at 250 cents, variant C is variant B is at 250 cents, variant C is at 250 cents. Usually, you can start to at 250 cents. Usually, you can start to at 250 cents. Usually, you can start to see some differences in reply rates, but see some differences in reply rates, but see some differences in reply rates, but also positive reply rates between the also positive reply rates between the also positive reply rates between the different variants. So, different variants. So, different variants. So, it's hard to say without the the full it's hard to say without the the full it's hard to say without the the full breadth of the situation, but I'd say breadth of the situation, but I'd say breadth of the situation, but I'd say around 250, if you're not starting to around 250, if you're not starting to around 250, if you're not starting to get some opportunities, get some opportunities, get some opportunities, then you might have to tweak the then you might have to tweak the then you might have to tweak the subject, subject, subject, tweak the copy, tweak the call to tweak the copy, tweak the call to tweak the copy, tweak the call to action. Um that's why it's good to send action. Um that's why it's good to send action. Um that's why it's good to send a couple variants of the same message to a couple variants of the same message to a couple variants of the same message to a similar persona with those adjustments a similar persona with those adjustments a similar persona with those adjustments made, so you can kind of evaluate the made, so you can kind of evaluate the made, so you can kind of evaluate the whole campaign, rather than it's not whole campaign, rather than it's not whole campaign, rather than it's not necessarily necessarily necessarily does this work? Does this not work? It's does this work? Does this not work? It's does this work? Does this not work? It's a a a which of these which of these which of these variables is working the best?

Um Um James, James, James, George had a follow-up, and I wanted to George had a follow-up, and I wanted to George had a follow-up, and I wanted to touch on that, so I want to make sure touch on that, so I want to make sure touch on that, so I want to make sure you can put the question up there. Uh you can put the question up there. Uh you can put the question up there. Uh George's clarification on his earlier George's clarification on his earlier George's clarification on his earlier question was uh today he was targeting question was uh today he was targeting question was uh today he was targeting um doing some client outreach, found um doing some client outreach, found um doing some client outreach, found that some specific client details that that some specific client details that that some specific client details that he was looking for weren't available on he was looking for weren't available on he was looking for weren't available on Hunter. Hunter. Hunter. Did some more digging and some Did some more digging and some Did some more digging and some sleuthing, some internet sleuthing, was sleuthing, some internet sleuthing, was sleuthing, some internet sleuthing, was able to find some of the information. able to find some of the information. able to find some of the information. Um and so, Um and so, Um and so, let's see. And I was thinking about how let's see. And I was thinking about how let's see. And I was thinking about how to add discovery, which I did on my own. to add discovery, which I did on my own. to add discovery, which I did on my own. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you can always add Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you can always add Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you can always add information that you find on your own to information that you find on your own to information that you find on your own to leads manually. Um in a way, leads Oh, leads manually. Um in a way, leads Oh, leads manually. Um in a way, leads Oh, I'm going to be careful here. I'm going to be careful here. I'm going to be careful here. You can almost think about leads like a You can almost think about leads like a You can almost think about leads like a lightweight contact database or CRM. I lightweight contact database or CRM. I lightweight contact database or CRM. I want to be careful with the CRM term. It want to be careful with the CRM term. It want to be careful with the CRM term. It doesn't have sales automation or doesn't have sales automation or doesn't have sales automation or workflow processes in there. But if workflow processes in there. But if workflow processes in there. But if you're just trying to capture people who you're just trying to capture people who you're just trying to capture people who you found, and you want to add them into you found, and you want to add them into you found, and you want to add them into your cold outreach, you can do that very your cold outreach, you can do that very your cold outreach, you can do that very easily easily easily uh using uh just manually adding them to uh using uh just manually adding them to uh using uh just manually adding them to leads.

leads. leads. We also have a browser extension, and We also have a browser extension, and We also have a browser extension, and sometimes George, if you go to the sometimes George, if you go to the sometimes George, if you go to the company's website, the browser extension company's website, the browser extension company's website, the browser extension is going to find something is going to find something is going to find something that maybe you didn't see using that maybe you didn't see using that maybe you didn't see using Discover. Discover. Discover. There's a variety of ways to do this, There's a variety of ways to do this, There's a variety of ways to do this, but the extension is really powerful. I but the extension is really powerful. I but the extension is really powerful. I would encourage you to install it and would encourage you to install it and would encourage you to install it and try it. try it. try it. If you've put in the domain which is If you've put in the domain which is If you've put in the domain which is what Discover what the what Discover what the what Discover what the extension uses, and the domain does not extension uses, and the domain does not extension uses, and the domain does not present the results. Typically, what present the results. Typically, what present the results. Typically, what that means is that there's not a lot of that means is that there's not a lot of that means is that there's not a lot of publicly available information for that publicly available information for that publicly available information for that individual or for that company. Or it individual or for that company. Or it individual or for that company. Or it means that we've not actually had that means that we've not actually had that means that we've not actually had that domain requested before, and so we domain requested before, and so we domain requested before, and so we haven't actually scraped recently on haven't actually scraped recently on haven't actually scraped recently on that domain. It's usually one of those that domain. It's usually one of those that domain. It's usually one of those two reasons. Every once in a while there two reasons. Every once in a while there two reasons. Every once in a while there is another edge case. is another edge case. is another edge case. The good news is once you actually The good news is once you actually The good news is once you actually search for that domain, it actually search for that domain, it actually search for that domain, it actually sends a request into our system to go sends a request into our system to go sends a request into our system to go back and re-index that firm and see what back and re-index that firm and see what back and re-index that firm and see what new information we can find. So that's new information we can find. So that's new information we can find. So that's one thing that will happen is just by one thing that will happen is just by one thing that will happen is just by searching something and not getting searching something and not getting searching something and not getting results, it's automatically going to results, it's automatically going to results, it's automatically going to tell our system that there's something tell our system that there's something tell our system that there's something there to look at, which is good.

there to look at, which is good. there to look at, which is good. You should get notified if we find You should get notified if we find You should get notified if we find something. something. something. I think it comes, you know, usually I think it comes, you know, usually I think it comes, you know, usually within small number of days where it within small number of days where it within small number of days where it will tell you that we found some will tell you that we found some will tell you that we found some profiles. Um profiles. Um profiles. Um Alternatively, you can use our email Alternatively, you can use our email Alternatively, you can use our email finder. So if let's say you do find finder. So if let's say you do find finder. So if let's say you do find somebody out there on the web, and you somebody out there on the web, and you somebody out there on the web, and you want to come in instead of using domain want to come in instead of using domain want to come in instead of using domain search, you can just go directly to our search, you can just go directly to our search, you can just go directly to our finder tab in our UI, put the person's finder tab in our UI, put the person's finder tab in our UI, put the person's name and domain in there, do an email name and domain in there, do an email name and domain in there, do an email finder search, and it will still find finder search, and it will still find finder search, and it will still find the email even if they did not publicly the email even if they did not publicly the email even if they did not publicly show up in some of the results on domain show up in some of the results on domain show up in some of the results on domain search. It's too long of an explanation search. It's too long of an explanation search. It's too long of an explanation to get into here. I'm happy to take that to get into here. I'm happy to take that to get into here. I'm happy to take that offline, George. But even if something offline, George. But even if something offline, George. But even if something doesn't show up in Discover, you can doesn't show up in Discover, you can doesn't show up in Discover, you can generally still find a valid email for generally still find a valid email for generally still find a valid email for that person by using email finder. So I that person by using email finder. So I that person by using email finder. So I would try those two things, and if would try those two things, and if would try those two things, and if you're struggling you're struggling you're struggling reach out directly. reach out directly. reach out directly. We're fairly easy to find. I have it on We're fairly easy to find. I have it on We're fairly easy to find. I have it on good authority there's a great product good authority there's a great product good authority there's a great product for finding our email addresses. for finding our email addresses. for finding our email addresses. You can reach out to me or Rui directly You can reach out to me or Rui directly You can reach out to me or Rui directly and we're happy to look into that more and we're happy to look into that more and we're happy to look into that more specifically. Some industries are just specifically. Some industries are just specifically. Some industries are just tricky, too. So, give us a heads-up.

tricky, too. So, give us a heads-up. tricky, too. So, give us a heads-up. Thanks for the question and the Thanks for the question and the Thanks for the question and the follow-up. Ah, Hannah. Thank you. I was just about Ah, Hannah. Thank you. I was just about to get to this one. to get to this one. to get to this one. You've noticed a discrepancy between You've noticed a discrepancy between You've noticed a discrepancy between Hunter's verification status and actual Hunter's verification status and actual Hunter's verification status and actual delivery results. Seeing marked as 100% delivery results. Seeing marked as 100% delivery results. Seeing marked as 100% valid and then there was a little hard valid and then there was a little hard valid and then there was a little hard bounce. Interesting. bounce. Interesting. bounce. Interesting. Um, and what steps can we take to improve? and what steps can we take to improve? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we do Um, so we do Um, so we do a couple points. a couple points. a couple points. When you When you When you do an email finder do an email finder do an email finder search or if you pull in somebody from search or if you pull in somebody from search or if you pull in somebody from Discover, uh, these are generally done Discover, uh, these are generally done Discover, uh, these are generally done at different times. So, email finder is at different times. So, email finder is at different times. So, email finder is like a real-time like a real-time like a real-time um, search and a real-time verification. um, search and a real-time verification. um, search and a real-time verification. So, if you're doing a verification in So, if you're doing a verification in So, if you're doing a verification in any way in our system directly before any way in our system directly before any way in our system directly before you do a send, um, that is going to give you do a send, um, that is going to give you do a send, um, that is going to give you the most up-to-date status. And it you the most up-to-date status. And it you the most up-to-date status. And it is true that these days is true that these days is true that these days the speed at which email addresses are the speed at which email addresses are the speed at which email addresses are becoming invalid is accelerating. You becoming invalid is accelerating. You becoming invalid is accelerating. You know, it used to be if you know, it used to be if you know, it used to be if you did a verification on your data set once did a verification on your data set once did a verification on your data set once a year, you were probably okay.

a year, you were probably okay. a year, you were probably okay. A couple of years ago, it was down to A couple of years ago, it was down to A couple of years ago, it was down to like once a quarter. Now we're seeing like once a quarter. Now we're seeing like once a quarter. Now we're seeing that that number is like sub-60 days. that that number is like sub-60 days. that that number is like sub-60 days. Um, and so we're we have increased the Um, and so we're we have increased the Um, and so we're we have increased the refresh rate on the verification data in refresh rate on the verification data in refresh rate on the verification data in our system, but it's also just possible our system, but it's also just possible our system, but it's also just possible you found somebody in that window. you found somebody in that window. you found somebody in that window. If it's not happening if it's happening If it's not happening if it's happening If it's not happening if it's happening more than maybe once per campaign, more than maybe once per campaign, more than maybe once per campaign, um, I would want to flag that so we um, I would want to flag that so we um, I would want to flag that so we could take a look at that. That's pretty could take a look at that. That's pretty could take a look at that. That's pretty uncommon um, and pretty rare uncommon um, and pretty rare uncommon um, and pretty rare statistically. But, it depends on when statistically. But, it depends on when statistically. But, it depends on when you put the data in and when you you put the data in and when you you put the data in and when you verified it and the amount of time verified it and the amount of time verified it and the amount of time between that event and the actual between that event and the actual between that event and the actual sending of the email. Rui, did you have sending of the email. Rui, did you have sending of the email. Rui, did you have something you wanted to add? something you wanted to add? something you wanted to add? >> Yeah, on top of that, it might also be >> Yeah, on top of that, it might also be >> Yeah, on top of that, it might also be the case that your domain is gray-listed the case that your domain is gray-listed the case that your domain is gray-listed or something like that. So, some email or something like that. So, some email or something like that. So, some email servers will will block that domain. servers will will block that domain. servers will will block that domain. Uh for that, you can use the email Uh for that, you can use the email Uh for that, you can use the email health center at within Hunter, which health center at within Hunter, which health center at within Hunter, which will basically flag if you're being will basically flag if you're being will basically flag if you're being gray-listed, which will generate those gray-listed, which will generate those gray-listed, which will generate those hard bounces, for example. hard bounces, for example. hard bounces, for example. >> That's important to know because if we >> That's important to know because if we >> That's important to know because if we when we send the request for when we send the request for when we send the request for verification, we get a hard confirmation verification, we get a hard confirmation verification, we get a hard confirmation back from the email server. So, back from the email server. So, back from the email server. So, if it's been let's say if you did the if it's been let's say if you did the if it's been let's say if you did the verification right before you sent the verification right before you sent the verification right before you sent the campaign and you still have that campaign and you still have that campaign and you still have that problem, it's very likely what what Rui problem, it's very likely what what Rui problem, it's very likely what what Rui is talking about. Um definitely check is talking about. Um definitely check is talking about. Um definitely check the email the email the email uh the email account center uh the email account center uh the email account center uh in the UI cuz that should add some uh uh in the UI cuz that should add some uh uh in the UI cuz that should add some uh some clarity, as he said. Thanks, guys.

some clarity, as he said. Thanks, guys. some clarity, as he said. Thanks, guys. Uh Uh Uh and then Chris is just pitching our AB and then Chris is just pitching our AB and then Chris is just pitching our AB testing. Thanks, Chris. Appreciate that. testing. Thanks, Chris. Appreciate that. testing. Thanks, Chris. Appreciate that. Uh let's see. Um Uh let's see. Um Uh let's see. Um What percentage of emails typically Oh, What percentage of emails typically Oh, What percentage of emails typically Oh, do we have like do we have like do we have like statistics for this, James? >> Yes, we do in the in the report. Um it >> Yes, we do in the in the report. Um it is around 3 or 4%. >> Got it. >> Got it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um and in terms of replacements for bad Um and in terms of replacements for bad Um and in terms of replacements for bad contacts, uh contacts, uh contacts, uh we need to know more specifically what we need to know more specifically what we need to know more specifically what you're looking for if this is a you're looking for if this is a you're looking for if this is a follow-on to your question, Hannah. Um follow-on to your question, Hannah. Um follow-on to your question, Hannah. Um I I'd want to look at the details, but I I'd want to look at the details, but I I'd want to look at the details, but uh yeah, generally, you know, if a email uh yeah, generally, you know, if a email uh yeah, generally, you know, if a email proved not to be valid and not to be proved not to be valid and not to be proved not to be valid and not to be correct after you do a search, uh we'd correct after you do a search, uh we'd correct after you do a search, uh we'd want to know and uh happy to to refund want to know and uh happy to to refund want to know and uh happy to to refund that credit. Oh, look at that. Oh, look at that. And with that, we're uh we're at time. And with that, we're uh we're at time. And with that, we're uh we're at time. Uh thank you everybody for staying on. Uh thank you everybody for staying on. Uh thank you everybody for staying on. Thanks for the questions. If we missed Thanks for the questions. If we missed Thanks for the questions. If we missed anything, we'll definitely follow up. Um anything, we'll definitely follow up. Um anything, we'll definitely follow up. Um yeah.

yeah. yeah. Rui, Oliver, thank you so much. It was Rui, Oliver, thank you so much. It was Rui, Oliver, thank you so much. It was great to have you guys on and great to have you guys on and great to have you guys on and >> Thank you everyone. >> Thank you everyone. >> Thank you everyone. >> Fun topic. >> Fun topic. >> Fun topic. >> Thank you. >> Cheers everybody. >> Cheers everybody. >> Bye-bye.