Outfoxed podcast by Hunter.io| Ep 16 Jonathan Del Gatto “How to re-wire your sales approach”

This is Outf Fox, the podcast brought This is Outf Fox, the podcast brought [music] to you by Hunter.io, the trusted [music] to you by Hunter.io, the trusted [music] to you by Hunter.io, the trusted B2B lead generation platform built for B2B lead generation platform built for B2B lead generation platform built for every professional. Get ready for no every professional. Get ready for no every professional. Get ready for no [music] playbooks, no posturing, and no [music] playbooks, no posturing, and no [music] playbooks, no posturing, and no egos. This is the show for the builders egos. This is the show for the builders egos. This is the show for the builders and not the theorists. Let's get into and not the theorists. Let's get into and not the theorists. Let's get into it. it. it. >> All right, welcome to Outf Fox, >> All right, welcome to Outf Fox, >> All right, welcome to Outf Fox, everybody. Glad you're here. Um because everybody. Glad you're here. Um because everybody. Glad you're here. Um because my next guest, I'm really looking my next guest, I'm really looking my next guest, I'm really looking forward to this sharing this forward to this sharing this forward to this sharing this conversation with you and hearing what conversation with you and hearing what conversation with you and hearing what he has to say on a topic that I think is he has to say on a topic that I think is he has to say on a topic that I think is important to all of us. Um with me is important to all of us. Um with me is important to all of us. Um with me is Jonathan Delgato. He's founder of Jonathan Delgato. He's founder of Jonathan Delgato. He's founder of Brighter, a brighter company, which is a Brighter, a brighter company, which is a Brighter, a brighter company, which is a Los Angeles video production studio he Los Angeles video production studio he Los Angeles video production studio he started in 2010. And over a 25 year started in 2010. And over a 25 year started in 2010. And over a 25 year career, he's edited and directed work career, he's edited and directed work career, he's edited and directed work for brands like Into It, Fresh Pet, for brands like Into It, Fresh Pet, for brands like Into It, Fresh Pet, Amazon, Nike, Budweiser, Microsoft, MTV, Amazon, Nike, Budweiser, Microsoft, MTV, Amazon, Nike, Budweiser, Microsoft, MTV, and the Disney Channel. So, he's I'm and the Disney Channel. So, he's I'm and the Disney Channel. So, he's I'm sure hit some of us at some point. Uh, sure hit some of us at some point. Uh, sure hit some of us at some point. Uh, that's going to be great. Um, Jonathan's that's going to be great. Um, Jonathan's that's going to be great. Um, Jonathan's work has won Can's Gold Lion, an Emmy, work has won Can's Gold Lion, an Emmy, work has won Can's Gold Lion, an Emmy, multiple AICP awards, Cleos and Effy's.

multiple AICP awards, Cleos and Effy's. multiple AICP awards, Cleos and Effy's. Um, I don't know what an FE is, so Um, I don't know what an FE is, so Um, I don't know what an FE is, so you're going to have to explain that. you're going to have to explain that. you're going to have to explain that. Uh, alongside the studio though, uh, Uh, alongside the studio though, uh, Uh, alongside the studio though, uh, Jonathan runs Director's Cut, uh, the Jonathan runs Director's Cut, uh, the Jonathan runs Director's Cut, uh, the business of video, which is a coaching business of video, which is a coaching business of video, which is a coaching community where he teaches video community where he teaches video community where he teaches video professionals how to turn that professionals how to turn that professionals how to turn that profession into a real business for profession into a real business for profession into a real business for themselves. So, I think there's a lot to themselves. So, I think there's a lot to themselves. So, I think there's a lot to talk about here, Jonathan. Really talk about here, Jonathan. Really talk about here, Jonathan. Really excited to have you. Thanks so much for excited to have you. Thanks so much for excited to have you. Thanks so much for being on Out Fox. being on Out Fox. being on Out Fox. >> Well, I'm grateful to be here. Thank >> Well, I'm grateful to be here. Thank >> Well, I'm grateful to be here. Thank you, Matt. you, Matt. you, Matt. >> So, I you know, look, we're we're in >> So, I you know, look, we're we're in >> So, I you know, look, we're we're in sales and marketing space. This is what sales and marketing space. This is what sales and marketing space. This is what we live and breathe. But what we don't we live and breathe. But what we don't we live and breathe. But what we don't get to talk about a lot is advertising. get to talk about a lot is advertising. get to talk about a lot is advertising. Um because a lot of what we do is Um because a lot of what we do is Um because a lot of what we do is intended to be as onetoone as possible, intended to be as onetoone as possible, intended to be as onetoone as possible, even at scale. But that is a completely even at scale. But that is a completely even at scale. But that is a completely different opposite end of the spectrum different opposite end of the spectrum different opposite end of the spectrum for for advertising. So talk to me about for for advertising. So talk to me about for for advertising. So talk to me about the through line. What has kept you in the through line. What has kept you in the through line. What has kept you in the advertising space, especially around the advertising space, especially around the advertising space, especially around video for 25 years? How has it kept your video for 25 years? How has it kept your video for 25 years? How has it kept your attention? attention? attention? >> I couldn't tell you. I don't know. >> I couldn't tell you. I don't know. >> I couldn't tell you. I don't know. There's something magic about the short, There's something magic about the short, There's something magic about the short, concise concise concise message that works for me. And I would message that works for me. And I would message that works for me. And I would have never have guessed it. I mean, I have never have guessed it. I mean, I have never have guessed it. I mean, I tried to get out of advertising multiple tried to get out of advertising multiple tried to get out of advertising multiple times through 35 years. I didn't want to times through 35 years. I didn't want to times through 35 years. I didn't want to be in advertising, but I keep coming be in advertising, but I keep coming be in advertising, but I keep coming back to it because I really love it. And back to it because I really love it. And back to it because I really love it. And you know, we tend to love the things you know, we tend to love the things you know, we tend to love the things we're good at. And whether I liked it or we're good at. And whether I liked it or we're good at. And whether I liked it or not, I was pretty good at distilling not, I was pretty good at distilling not, I was pretty good at distilling ideas into very, very, very simple, ideas into very, very, very simple, ideas into very, very, very simple, understandable, relatable, connectable, understandable, relatable, connectable, understandable, relatable, connectable, you know, ads, videos. you know, the way

you know, ads, videos. you know, the way you know, ads, videos. you know, the way you talk about it, uh, you make it sound you talk about it, uh, you make it sound you talk about it, uh, you make it sound more like the poetry of marketing and more like the poetry of marketing and more like the poetry of marketing and sales, uh, which I really like. But, um, sales, uh, which I really like. But, um, sales, uh, which I really like. But, um, so there's something about this short so there's something about this short so there's something about this short form 30 second that connects. And I have form 30 second that connects. And I have form 30 second that connects. And I have to imagine, to imagine, to imagine, and and maybe I'm wrong, so just you can and and maybe I'm wrong, so just you can and and maybe I'm wrong, so just you can challenge me on this, but it feels like challenge me on this, but it feels like challenge me on this, but it feels like video is getting shorter and shorter and video is getting shorter and shorter and video is getting shorter and shorter and shorter. I was reading something the shorter. I was reading something the shorter. I was reading something the other day that proposed that content is other day that proposed that content is other day that proposed that content is like the optimum content right now would like the optimum content right now would like the optimum content right now would be like an 80 to 90 second show. Now be like an 80 to 90 second show. Now be like an 80 to 90 second show. Now this is really really interesting. So this is really really interesting. So this is really really interesting. So given what you've seen in video over the given what you've seen in video over the given what you've seen in video over the last few decades like talk to me about last few decades like talk to me about last few decades like talk to me about your perspective is this am I seeing your perspective is this am I seeing your perspective is this am I seeing this trend correctly? this trend correctly? this trend correctly? >> Well I think you can't be that um >> Well I think you can't be that um >> Well I think you can't be that um specific about it. I mean okay when you specific about it. I mean okay when you specific about it. I mean okay when you get into marketing and this is probably get into marketing and this is probably get into marketing and this is probably something you know more about than me. something you know more about than me. something you know more about than me. You know, when you get into marketing You know, when you get into marketing You know, when you get into marketing and the idea of where in the customer and the idea of where in the customer and the idea of where in the customer journey does a video hit them, what's journey does a video hit them, what's journey does a video hit them, what's the purpose it serves? So, I think when the purpose it serves? So, I think when the purpose it serves? So, I think when you say that, you're probably talking you say that, you're probably talking you say that, you're probably talking about a telephone. You're probably about a telephone. You're probably about a telephone. You're probably talking about social media. You're talking about social media. You're talking about social media. You're probably talking about YouTube, a probably talking about YouTube, a probably talking about YouTube, a delivery system for something of that delivery system for something of that delivery system for something of that length. Maybe not. Maybe you're talking length. Maybe not. Maybe you're talking length. Maybe not. Maybe you're talking about Instagram or Tik Tok or Facebook about Instagram or Tik Tok or Facebook about Instagram or Tik Tok or Facebook or any other of those platforms. But in or any other of those platforms. But in or any other of those platforms. But in terms of length, the thing I love the terms of length, the thing I love the terms of length, the thing I love the most about when social media entered most about when social media entered most about when social media entered what I do was the idea of length went what I do was the idea of length went what I do was the idea of length went away. It didn't matter as much whether away. It didn't matter as much whether away. It didn't matter as much whether something was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 something was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 something was 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, or 90 seconds. What mattered is

seconds, or 90 seconds. What mattered is seconds, or 90 seconds. What mattered is that it did what it was supposed to do. that it did what it was supposed to do. that it did what it was supposed to do. Was it supposed to inform? Cool. 90 Was it supposed to inform? Cool. 90 Was it supposed to inform? Cool. 90 seconds. Good. Is it supposed to just seconds. Good. Is it supposed to just seconds. Good. Is it supposed to just grab attention and get someone to take grab attention and get someone to take grab attention and get someone to take action? Actually, I like 15 seconds a action? Actually, I like 15 seconds a action? Actually, I like 15 seconds a lot for that. So, you know, in terms of lot for that. So, you know, in terms of lot for that. So, you know, in terms of how long something should be, whether it how long something should be, whether it how long something should be, whether it should be long, whether it be short, it should be long, whether it be short, it should be long, whether it be short, it depends what you're doing with it. And, depends what you're doing with it. And, depends what you're doing with it. And, you know, it does have a beginning, you know, it does have a beginning, you know, it does have a beginning, middle, and end. Does it give someone a middle, and end. Does it give someone a middle, and end. Does it give someone a satisfying journey from the minute they satisfying journey from the minute they satisfying journey from the minute they see it to when they're done? see it to when they're done? see it to when they're done? >> And so, in your pers from from this >> And so, in your pers from from this >> And so, in your pers from from this perspective, then you would say that perspective, then you would say that perspective, then you would say that something that might be 90 minutes could something that might be 90 minutes could something that might be 90 minutes could potentially still be just as successful potentially still be just as successful potentially still be just as successful as something that's 9 seconds or 90 as something that's 9 seconds or 90 as something that's 9 seconds or 90 seconds. seconds. seconds. >> Yeah. I've made 90minute ads. I've made >> Yeah. I've made 90minute ads. I've made >> Yeah. I've made 90minute ads. I've made 90-minute ads for for car manufacturers 90-minute ads for for car manufacturers 90-minute ads for for car manufacturers and they were movies. They called them a and they were movies. They called them a and they were movies. They called them a movie and they had big stars in them. movie and they had big stars in them. movie and they had big stars in them. But, you know, everybody making the But, you know, everybody making the But, you know, everybody making the movie had no qualms understanding that movie had no qualms understanding that movie had no qualms understanding that the ad was completely 100% sponsored by the ad was completely 100% sponsored by the ad was completely 100% sponsored by an auto manufacturer and cars were an auto manufacturer and cars were an auto manufacturer and cars were placed throughout the ad as a central placed throughout the ad as a central placed throughout the ad as a central character and all the models of the character and all the models of the character and all the models of the brand were throughout the ad. You know, brand were throughout the ad. You know, brand were throughout the ad. You know, that was an ad. Those are 30 secondond that was an ad. Those are 30 secondond that was an ad. Those are 30 secondond ads starring people like Dennis Hopper.

ads starring people like Dennis Hopper. ads starring people like Dennis Hopper. I feel like you also potentially I feel like you also potentially I feel like you also potentially described the relationship between BMW described the relationship between BMW described the relationship between BMW and uh the Tom Cruz with the Mission and uh the Tom Cruz with the Mission and uh the Tom Cruz with the Mission Impossibles there for a while. It felt Impossibles there for a while. It felt Impossibles there for a while. It felt like that was sort of in that bond like that was sort of in that bond like that was sort of in that bond actually as well. Like it's just this actually as well. Like it's just this actually as well. Like it's just this doesn't feel like a secret pattern doesn't feel like a secret pattern doesn't feel like a secret pattern that's out there. It's actually that's out there. It's actually that's out there. It's actually >> No, no. The car manufacturers and the >> No, no. The car manufacturers and the >> No, no. The car manufacturers and the soap manufacturers and every soap manufacturers and every soap manufacturers and every manufacturer goes back to the very manufacturer goes back to the very manufacturer goes back to the very beginning of advertising and television. beginning of advertising and television. beginning of advertising and television. So, you know, the Bond franchise being So, you know, the Bond franchise being So, you know, the Bond franchise being associated with an automobile goes back associated with an automobile goes back associated with an automobile goes back to the beginning of the front. I think to the beginning of the front. I think to the beginning of the front. I think it goes back to the beginning franchise. it goes back to the beginning franchise. it goes back to the beginning franchise. Someone could correct me. I'd love to Someone could correct me. I'd love to Someone could correct me. I'd love to know, but I quite frankly love the cars know, but I quite frankly love the cars know, but I quite frankly love the cars in all the early Bond movies. They were in all the early Bond movies. They were in all the early Bond movies. They were awesome. awesome. awesome. And remember, we did BMW films with And remember, we did BMW films with And remember, we did BMW films with [clears throat] Fallon about 20 years [clears throat] Fallon about 20 years [clears throat] Fallon about 20 years ago. Some of the most important ago. Some of the most important ago. Some of the most important automobile advertising cooperations that automobile advertising cooperations that automobile advertising cooperations that ever happened. And they were amazing. ever happened. And they were amazing. ever happened. And they were amazing. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. >> So, okay. So my perspective has been >> So, okay. So my perspective has been >> So, okay. So my perspective has been that video is changing, but you're that video is changing, but you're that video is changing, but you're you're sort of telling me that maybe it you're sort of telling me that maybe it you're sort of telling me that maybe it hasn't. But hasn't. But hasn't. But >> no, >> no, >> no, >> it used to be that we'd sit there, >> it used to be that we'd sit there, >> it used to be that we'd sit there, right? We'd watch, you know, 30 minute right? We'd watch, you know, 30 minute right? We'd watch, you know, 30 minute shows or an hourong show. We would watch shows or an hourong show. We would watch shows or an hourong show. We would watch a couple of hours a night and we would a couple of hours a night and we would a couple of hours a night and we would get advertising interspersed in the get advertising interspersed in the get advertising interspersed in the middle of that. But nowadays, I feel middle of that. But nowadays, I feel middle of that. But nowadays, I feel like the the platforms have become ad like the the platforms have become ad like the the platforms have become ad [clears throat] platforms. like [clears throat] platforms. like [clears throat] platforms. like Instagram as you're thumbming through Instagram as you're thumbming through Instagram as you're thumbming through it, I feel like you're seeing more it, I feel like you're seeing more it, I feel like you're seeing more advertising content than you are content advertising content than you are content advertising content than you are content content. Like there's there's this the content. Like there's there's this the content. Like there's there's this the the platform and the ads and the content the platform and the ads and the content the platform and the ads and the content kind of all feel like they're just all

kind of all feel like they're just all kind of all feel like they're just all squished together. Is this squished together. Is this squished together. Is this I guess even if that's true, you don't I guess even if that's true, you don't I guess even if that's true, you don't see that changing the format of video. see that changing the format of video. see that changing the format of video. >> Well, I I I think what you described >> Well, I I I think what you described >> Well, I I I think what you described stinks. I mean, I hate it and it's so stinks. I mean, I hate it and it's so stinks. I mean, I hate it and it's so true. I mean, you know, when the when true. I mean, you know, when the when true. I mean, you know, when the when when the um particularly when Meta when the um particularly when Meta when the um particularly when Meta changed everything from being social changed everything from being social changed everything from being social media to be intent marketing, which it media to be intent marketing, which it media to be intent marketing, which it is now, you know, it really went is now, you know, it really went is now, you know, it really went downhill. I mean, and it is just a big downhill. I mean, and it is just a big downhill. I mean, and it is just a big long ad, but people love it because the long ad, but people love it because the long ad, but people love it because the targeting is so good that, you know, targeting is so good that, you know, targeting is so good that, you know, they're getting things they're actually they're getting things they're actually they're getting things they're actually interested in. So, in a lot of ways, you interested in. So, in a lot of ways, you interested in. So, in a lot of ways, you know, what happened there is truly know, what happened there is truly know, what happened there is truly astonishing. But back to your question, astonishing. But back to your question, astonishing. But back to your question, does or or quandry like has things does or or quandry like has things does or or quandry like has things changed? Yeah. Boy, oh boy, things have changed? Yeah. Boy, oh boy, things have changed? Yeah. Boy, oh boy, things have changed. And the single most important changed. And the single most important changed. And the single most important thing was part of it. It was in your thing was part of it. It was in your thing was part of it. It was in your question, the answer, which is astute. question, the answer, which is astute. question, the answer, which is astute. We're no longer captive. It used to be We're no longer captive. It used to be We're no longer captive. It used to be we were a captive audience. If you we were a captive audience. If you we were a captive audience. If you wanted to watch um the Loveboat, if you wanted to watch um the Loveboat, if you wanted to watch um the Loveboat, if you wanted to watch whatever show you love, wanted to watch whatever show you love, wanted to watch whatever show you love, you know, you tolerated the ads. That's you know, you tolerated the ads. That's you know, you tolerated the ads. That's no longer true. Uh but it's becoming no longer true. Uh but it's becoming no longer true. Uh but it's becoming true again, which is just a nefarious true again, which is just a nefarious true again, which is just a nefarious way advertising is so hungry for our way advertising is so hungry for our way advertising is so hungry for our attention to get there somehow. But um attention to get there somehow. But um attention to get there somehow. But um yeah, that's the biggest difference is yeah, that's the biggest difference is yeah, that's the biggest difference is we're no longer captive. So advertising we're no longer captive. So advertising we're no longer captive. So advertising had to get really good and it did for a had to get really good and it did for a had to get really good and it did for a while. Well, and I feel like that was while. Well, and I feel like that was while. Well, and I feel like that was the whole thing about social media was the whole thing about social media was the whole thing about social media was like, "Oh, and we're going to let you like, "Oh, and we're going to let you like, "Oh, and we're going to let you monetize your your your followers and

monetize your your your followers and monetize your your your followers and your attention." How? By shilling. you your attention." How? By shilling. you your attention." How? By shilling. you can be professional shills and this is can be professional shills and this is can be professional shills and this is going to make social media better for going to make social media better for going to make social media better for everybody. It's like is it everybody. It's like is it everybody. It's like is it >> a lot a lot of people sipped that >> a lot a lot of people sipped that >> a lot a lot of people sipped that Kool-Aid, didn't they? I remember they Kool-Aid, didn't they? I remember they Kool-Aid, didn't they? I remember they did. did. did. >> So many people thought that they were >> So many people thought that they were >> So many people thought that they were going to make a fortune by being an going to make a fortune by being an going to make a fortune by being an influencer and uh getting on social influencer and uh getting on social influencer and uh getting on social media or YouTube and monetizing their media or YouTube and monetizing their media or YouTube and monetizing their content. But the truth of the matter is content. But the truth of the matter is content. But the truth of the matter is is, you know, yeah, that works for some. is, you know, yeah, that works for some. is, you know, yeah, that works for some. I mean, hell, I think Mr. Beast has I mean, hell, I think Mr. Beast has I mean, hell, I think Mr. Beast has proved that to be 100% true. And and he proved that to be 100% true. And and he proved that to be 100% true. And and he makes amazing content. And I love that. makes amazing content. And I love that. makes amazing content. And I love that. I just so love that about what's changed I just so love that about what's changed I just so love that about what's changed and what you're kind of getting into is and what you're kind of getting into is and what you're kind of getting into is how talent and ideas and and inspiration how talent and ideas and and inspiration how talent and ideas and and inspiration comes from anywhere. You know, the the comes from anywhere. You know, the the comes from anywhere. You know, the the ceiling being blown off. It's just ceiling being blown off. It's just ceiling being blown off. It's just fantastic. fantastic. fantastic. >> You know, I was talking to somebody the >> You know, I was talking to somebody the >> You know, I was talking to somebody the other day. I was like, you know, I don't other day. I was like, you know, I don't other day. I was like, you know, I don't know, maybe it's a generational thing. know, maybe it's a generational thing. know, maybe it's a generational thing. Maybe Gen X and, you know, boomers are Maybe Gen X and, you know, boomers are Maybe Gen X and, you know, boomers are are are still uh weary of being sold to are are still uh weary of being sold to are are still uh weary of being sold to and millennials and Gen Z are just like, and millennials and Gen Z are just like, and millennials and Gen Z are just like, "Look, we're all selling to each other "Look, we're all selling to each other "Look, we're all selling to each other all the time. Let's just lean into it.

all the time. Let's just lean into it. all the time. Let's just lean into it. >> I think you got it. I think everyone I >> I think you got it. I think everyone I >> I think you got it. I think everyone I think they're right. They have they have think they're right. They have they have think they're right. They have they have bowed to it. They get it. Okay. Sell to bowed to it. They get it. Okay. Sell to bowed to it. They get it. Okay. Sell to me, but just make it decent. Make me, but just make it decent. Make me, but just make it decent. Make >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> And the brands have taken uh hold of >> And the brands have taken uh hold of >> And the brands have taken uh hold of that. I mean, the brands, the good that. I mean, the brands, the good that. I mean, the brands, the good brands, the big brands, some of the brands, the big brands, some of the brands, the big brands, some of the smaller ones, you know, they feel a smaller ones, you know, they feel a smaller ones, you know, they feel a responsibility to their audience. They responsibility to their audience. They responsibility to their audience. They feel a connection to their audience. And feel a connection to their audience. And feel a connection to their audience. And that matters because when they tend to that matters because when they tend to that matters because when they tend to that they create customers and following that they create customers and following that they create customers and following and and and real connection to their and and and real connection to their and and and real connection to their customers that's a dream. It's you know customers that's a dream. It's you know customers that's a dream. It's you know so the fact that the people you say that so the fact that the people you say that so the fact that the people you say that this generation has leaned into it a this generation has leaned into it a this generation has leaned into it a little bit. They're willing. It's a little bit. They're willing. It's a little bit. They're willing. It's a marketer's you know fantasy. marketer's you know fantasy. marketer's you know fantasy. >> Yeah. I mean I we're in B2B. We work >> Yeah. I mean I we're in B2B. We work >> Yeah. I mean I we're in B2B. We work with primarily B2B companies large with primarily B2B companies large with primarily B2B companies large majority. And so, you know, it's majority. And so, you know, it's majority. And so, you know, it's interesting in a lot of ways video and interesting in a lot of ways video and interesting in a lot of ways video and advertising in the traditional sense advertising in the traditional sense advertising in the traditional sense just it's never been logical for B2B just it's never been logical for B2B just it's never been logical for B2B companies, right? And then influencing companies, right? And then influencing companies, right? And then influencing happens and then it's like B2B I don't happens and then it's like B2B I don't happens and then it's like B2B I don't know maybe maybe there's some some know maybe maybe there's some some know maybe maybe there's some some opportunity here but I don't know like opportunity here but I don't know like opportunity here but I don't know like you've worked with some amazing brands.

you've worked with some amazing brands. you've worked with some amazing brands. I have to imagine they've suffer they've I have to imagine they've suffer they've I have to imagine they've suffer they've struggled a little bit with this the struggled a little bit with this the struggled a little bit with this the same way I have, which is same way I have, which is same way I have, which is what I envision in my head as good video what I envision in my head as good video what I envision in my head as good video content has good production value. You content has good production value. You content has good production value. You can tell it's polished. You can tell the can tell it's polished. You can tell the can tell it's polished. You can tell the people involved are professional. Is not people involved are professional. Is not people involved are professional. Is not anything I would use to describe most anything I would use to describe most anything I would use to describe most B2B content out there today. Um, do you B2B content out there today. Um, do you B2B content out there today. Um, do you think advertising is coming back? like think advertising is coming back? like think advertising is coming back? like is the things like are are platforms is the things like are are platforms is the things like are are platforms that allow you to do programmatic that allow you to do programmatic that allow you to do programmatic marketing with video ads are they going marketing with video ads are they going marketing with video ads are they going to expose B2B to advertising in a way to expose B2B to advertising in a way to expose B2B to advertising in a way that I think it hasn't been for a long that I think it hasn't been for a long that I think it hasn't been for a long time. Do you see that happening? time. Do you see that happening? time. Do you see that happening? >> It's a good question. >> It's a good question. >> It's a good question. You know, B2B is so interesting as just You know, B2B is so interesting as just You know, B2B is so interesting as just a simple topic. We could spend an hour a simple topic. We could spend an hour a simple topic. We could spend an hour on B2B and the idea that programmatic on B2B and the idea that programmatic on B2B and the idea that programmatic television or just programmatic television or just programmatic television or just programmatic whatever, however it's getting dished whatever, however it's getting dished whatever, however it's getting dished out, it will be useful B2B. Yeah, I out, it will be useful B2B. Yeah, I out, it will be useful B2B. Yeah, I think so. And you know, I I don't think think so. And you know, I I don't think think so. And you know, I I don't think for B2B marketing, you know, being for B2B marketing, you know, being for B2B marketing, you know, being polished is a prerequisite. I don't polished is a prerequisite. I don't polished is a prerequisite. I don't think it has to be. But for many brands think it has to be. But for many brands think it has to be. But for many brands it is because that's their brand. Their it is because that's their brand. Their it is because that's their brand. Their brand is a polished brand. They're a brand is a polished brand. They're a brand is a polished brand. They're a high ticket item. B2B typically is high ticket item. B2B typically is high ticket item. B2B typically is something that costs more. So they want something that costs more. So they want something that costs more. So they want to look fancy. But the truth of the to look fancy. But the truth of the to look fancy. But the truth of the matter is is I think so. I mean and and matter is is I think so. I mean and and matter is is I think so. I mean and and then they're bringing the word then they're bringing the word then they're bringing the word advertising into that you know as a advertising into that you know as a advertising into that you know as a function of one tactic of marketing if I function of one tactic of marketing if I function of one tactic of marketing if I guess that's okay way to put that. Um guess that's okay way to put that. Um guess that's okay way to put that. Um yeah I mean once something is on program

yeah I mean once something is on program yeah I mean once something is on program it basically is advertising. I mean that it basically is advertising. I mean that it basically is advertising. I mean that line between advertising and marketing line between advertising and marketing line between advertising and marketing is getting blurred with the kind of is getting blurred with the kind of is getting blurred with the kind of two-way data stream that's happening two-way data stream that's happening two-way data stream that's happening with these new um platforms. with these new um platforms. with these new um platforms. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I've been interested >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I've been interested >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I've been interested in this for a long time. You know there in this for a long time. You know there in this for a long time. You know there was many many years ago I worked to was many many years ago I worked to was many many years ago I worked to build ads for the business that I was in build ads for the business that I was in build ads for the business that I was in which was local and so advertising you which was local and so advertising you which was local and so advertising you know local ads especially made a lot know local ads especially made a lot know local ads especially made a lot more sense and there was good more sense and there was good more sense and there was good infrastructure for that. But, you know, infrastructure for that. But, you know, infrastructure for that. But, you know, Hunter appeals to so many different Hunter appeals to so many different Hunter appeals to so many different industries and so many different industries and so many different industries and so many different professional types and professions professional types and professions professional types and professions >> that I've struggled a little bit with >> that I've struggled a little bit with >> that I've struggled a little bit with like there's an opportunity here for a like there's an opportunity here for a like there's an opportunity here for a broader message. broader message. broader message. >> Video feels like the right format, but >> Video feels like the right format, but >> Video feels like the right format, but it also feels like the whole landscape it also feels like the whole landscape it also feels like the whole landscape has changed so much in the last 20 has changed so much in the last 20 has changed so much in the last 20 years. I'm not I'm not sure it still years. I'm not I'm not sure it still years. I'm not I'm not sure it still makes any sense. I'm not sure it makes any sense. I'm not sure it makes any sense. I'm not sure it actually does, even though it feels more actually does, even though it feels more actually does, even though it feels more approachable because there's platforms approachable because there's platforms approachable because there's platforms like Mountain, right? M mntn. Um, which like Mountain, right? M mntn. Um, which like Mountain, right? M mntn. Um, which make it seem like if I wanted some make it seem like if I wanted some make it seem like if I wanted some Hunter ads on Hulu, I could probably Hunter ads on Hulu, I could probably Hunter ads on Hulu, I could probably accomplish that. Um, do you do you have accomplish that. Um, do you do you have accomplish that. Um, do you do you have much of a sense for how that is opening much of a sense for how that is opening much of a sense for how that is opening things up in in the the opportunity for things up in in the the opportunity for things up in in the the opportunity for companies like B2B or companies in the companies like B2B or companies in the companies like B2B or companies in the B2B space?

B2B space? B2B space? >> Well, my company Brighter primarily the >> Well, my company Brighter primarily the >> Well, my company Brighter primarily the primary product and offer we have is CTV primary product and offer we have is CTV primary product and offer we have is CTV apps. That is really what we do. And I apps. That is really what we do. And I apps. That is really what we do. And I work with um Mountain, I work with Vibe, work with um Mountain, I work with Vibe, work with um Mountain, I work with Vibe, I work with all of the CTV providers uh I work with all of the CTV providers uh I work with all of the CTV providers uh producing content. And do I think that producing content. And do I think that producing content. And do I think that that is a place to go? I do. I really that is a place to go? I do. I really that is a place to go? I do. I really do. Um not just because I do it, but do. Um not just because I do it, but do. Um not just because I do it, but because I've seen how effective it is. I because I've seen how effective it is. I because I've seen how effective it is. I mean, it, you know, I've seen brand mean, it, you know, I've seen brand mean, it, you know, I've seen brand after brand after brand enter into the after brand after brand enter into the after brand after brand enter into the CTV space and just mind-blow the amount CTV space and just mind-blow the amount CTV space and just mind-blow the amount of investment for the return. of investment for the return. of investment for the return. Astonishing. But, you know, it does Astonishing. But, you know, it does Astonishing. But, you know, it does require a little bit of money to get require a little bit of money to get require a little bit of money to get going, going, going, >> right? Yeah. I mean, that even with AI, >> right? Yeah. I mean, that even with AI, >> right? Yeah. I mean, that even with AI, there's still production costs and there's still production costs and there's still production costs and things that you have to think about, I'm things that you have to think about, I'm things that you have to think about, I'm sure. Okay. So, this is So, one of the sure. Okay. So, this is So, one of the sure. Okay. So, this is So, one of the things that seems like it's interesting things that seems like it's interesting things that seems like it's interesting about this is that having advertised about this is that having advertised about this is that having advertised online for a long time, I know how online for a long time, I know how online for a long time, I know how precise we can be, which we couldn't in precise we can be, which we couldn't in precise we can be, which we couldn't in traditional TV based ads, right? It was traditional TV based ads, right? It was traditional TV based ads, right? It was a much much broader categorization. Um, a much much broader categorization. Um, a much much broader categorization. Um, this would theoretically open this back this would theoretically open this back this would theoretically open this back up and kind of create a new potential up and kind of create a new potential up and kind of create a new potential wave if I'm thinking about it right wave if I'm thinking about it right wave if I'm thinking about it right where you could, you know, we talk about where you could, you know, we talk about where you could, you know, we talk about outreach and about how narrowing your outreach and about how narrowing your outreach and about how narrowing your audience to be as focused as possible is audience to be as focused as possible is audience to be as focused as possible is always the secret to better outreach. It always the secret to better outreach. It always the secret to better outreach. It sounds like that could actually be that sounds like that could actually be that sounds like that could actually be that that could start to be applied to video that could start to be applied to video that could start to be applied to video though as well.

though as well. though as well. >> That's right. That's totally right. I >> That's right. That's totally right. I >> That's right. That's totally right. I mean, you know, I am a huge huge mean, you know, I am a huge huge mean, you know, I am a huge huge advocate of narrowing your audience as advocate of narrowing your audience as advocate of narrowing your audience as much as possible. I mean when it comes much as possible. I mean when it comes much as possible. I mean when it comes to marketing I like I am I am I am a to marketing I like I am I am I am a to marketing I like I am I am I am a complete advocate for six times the complete advocate for six times the complete advocate for six times the amount of research and one amount you amount of research and one amount you amount of research and one amount you know one-third the amount of time of know one-third the amount of time of know one-third the amount of time of actual you know sending out things and actual you know sending out things and actual you know sending out things and putting that energy out and all of that putting that energy out and all of that putting that energy out and all of that learning that we did on social media is learning that we did on social media is learning that we did on social media is now coming into TV. Um and and also at now coming into TV. Um and and also at now coming into TV. Um and and also at the same time people are opting out of the same time people are opting out of the same time people are opting out of the paid streaming services so they're the paid streaming services so they're the paid streaming services so they're taking the ads back they're going back taking the ads back they're going back taking the ads back they're going back into free streaming services which is into free streaming services which is into free streaming services which is not surprising. We're going full circle not surprising. We're going full circle not surprising. We're going full circle back to 1955 where people are now back to 1955 where people are now back to 1955 where people are now watching television again and now being watching television again and now being watching television again and now being offered ads. offered ads. offered ads. What happened? We didn't get rid of the What happened? We didn't get rid of the What happened? We didn't get rid of the ads because we ended up being perfectly ads because we ended up being perfectly ads because we ended up being perfectly comfortable with having to sit through comfortable with having to sit through comfortable with having to sit through an ad in order to watch TV for free. And an ad in order to watch TV for free. And an ad in order to watch TV for free. And I think part of the equation is what I think part of the equation is what I think part of the equation is what made people more comfortable, not made people more comfortable, not made people more comfortable, not entirely, but to some extent was that entirely, but to some extent was that entirely, but to some extent was that the ads were better targeted now. As a the ads were better targeted now. As a the ads were better targeted now. As a matter of fact, they were targeted. They matter of fact, they were targeted. They matter of fact, they were targeted. They were not targeted before. Everybody saw were not targeted before. Everybody saw were not targeted before. Everybody saw the same ads and now we all see the same ads and now we all see the same ads and now we all see different ads. I was watching TV with my different ads. I was watching TV with my different ads. I was watching TV with my family the other day. It was wonderfully family the other day. It was wonderfully family the other day. It was wonderfully funny and we got served a golf ad and I funny and we got served a golf ad and I funny and we got served a golf ad and I just looked at my daughter. I went, "I'm just looked at my daughter. I went, "I'm just looked at my daughter. I went, "I'm sorry. It's my fault." [laughter] I You know, I know. I know. It's totally I You know, I know. I know. It's totally my fault. I was shopping.

my fault. I was shopping. my fault. I was shopping. >> Yeah. are so so we're gonna start >> Yeah. are so so we're gonna start >> Yeah. are so so we're gonna start influencing the algorithms around our influencing the algorithms around our influencing the algorithms around our video ads the same way we have all of video ads the same way we have all of video ads the same way we have all of the algorithmic ads that we have in all the algorithmic ads that we have in all the algorithmic ads that we have in all of our other feeds is is of our other feeds is is of our other feeds is is >> you are you already >> you are you already >> you are you already >> ah this is great this is great look I >> ah this is great this is great look I >> ah this is great this is great look I think video is fun and I live in the think video is fun and I live in the think video is fun and I live in the world of email right this is where I get world of email right this is where I get world of email right this is where I get to spend all of my time and creative to spend all of my time and creative to spend all of my time and creative energy is thinking about how do we make energy is thinking about how do we make energy is thinking about how do we make this channel better um but I really like this channel better um but I really like this channel better um but I really like the idea that there's a principle here the idea that there's a principle here the idea that there's a principle here that that that is real in both places that that that is real in both places that that that is real in both places which is getting the message right for which is getting the message right for which is getting the message right for the audience, making sure you get it in the audience, making sure you get it in the audience, making sure you get it in front of them. Um, look, we make sure front of them. Um, look, we make sure front of them. Um, look, we make sure the emails are verified and that they're the emails are verified and that they're the emails are verified and that they're the right people, but a lot of the rest the right people, but a lot of the rest the right people, but a lot of the rest of the work is still on the individual. of the work is still on the individual. of the work is still on the individual. Um, and so there's a lot of overlap. Um, and so there's a lot of overlap. Um, and so there's a lot of overlap. Even though video and email couldn't Even though video and email couldn't Even though video and email couldn't seem farther apart, there's some themes seem farther apart, there's some themes seem farther apart, there's some themes here that are that are very consistent here that are that are very consistent here that are that are very consistent across both. across both. across both. >> Yeah, I don't think they're very far >> Yeah, I don't think they're very far >> Yeah, I don't think they're very far apart at all, actually. I mean for me uh apart at all, actually. I mean for me uh apart at all, actually. I mean for me uh in terms of messaging and being a in terms of messaging and being a in terms of messaging and being a marketer and you know I market my marketer and you know I market my marketer and you know I market my company Brighter to find clients. I also company Brighter to find clients. I also company Brighter to find clients. I also market my coaching um company to find market my coaching um company to find market my coaching um company to find clients and um in doing so I find it clients and um in doing so I find it clients and um in doing so I find it doesn't matter what your touch point is doesn't matter what your touch point is doesn't matter what your touch point is with a potential consumer. If your touch with a potential consumer. If your touch with a potential consumer. If your touch point is video, if your touch point is point is video, if your touch point is point is video, if your touch point is an email, if your touch point is social an email, if your touch point is social an email, if your touch point is social media, it doesn't really matter. The media, it doesn't really matter. The media, it doesn't really matter. The intent is the same. What you're trying intent is the same. What you're trying intent is the same. What you're trying to do is the same. So if you can think to do is the same. So if you can think to do is the same. So if you can think of it all in a co holistic way in what of it all in a co holistic way in what of it all in a co holistic way in what is your purpose in these things are you is your purpose in these things are you is your purpose in these things are you building trust are you raising awareness

building trust are you raising awareness building trust are you raising awareness you know simple marketing principles you know simple marketing principles you know simple marketing principles it's the same and whether your ad takes it's the same and whether your ad takes it's the same and whether your ad takes place over a video that's going to get place over a video that's going to get place over a video that's going to get placed in survivor finale this week or placed in survivor finale this week or placed in survivor finale this week or whether it's going to be an email that's whether it's going to be an email that's whether it's going to be an email that's going to get sent out to to 100 maybe going to get sent out to to 100 maybe going to get sent out to to 100 maybe 100 thousand I don't know people the 100 thousand I don't know people the 100 thousand I don't know people the intent is the same you know the words on intent is the same you know the words on intent is the same you know the words on the screen the ideas you're the screen the ideas you're the screen the ideas you're representing, that's what matters. representing, that's what matters. representing, that's what matters. >> I like that. I I harp on message a lot >> I like that. I I harp on message a lot >> I like that. I I harp on message a lot because in my space, everybody's so because in my space, everybody's so because in my space, everybody's so focused on the tech and the scale. focused on the tech and the scale. focused on the tech and the scale. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they're in such a rush to figure out >> And they're in such a rush to figure out >> And they're in such a rush to figure out how to send 100,000 emails. And I'm how to send 100,000 emails. And I'm how to send 100,000 emails. And I'm like, like, like, >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> I don't think that's actually going to >> I don't think that's actually going to >> I don't think that's actually going to help you accomplish what you need. It's help you accomplish what you need. It's help you accomplish what you need. It's not that you shouldn't send a h 100 not that you shouldn't send a h 100 not that you shouldn't send a h 100 thousand, but just think about how thousand, but just think about how thousand, but just think about how you're sending them and try to make them you're sending them and try to make them you're sending them and try to make them smaller and you know, really try to smaller and you know, really try to smaller and you know, really try to focus in on that, which is uh yeah, I focus in on that, which is uh yeah, I focus in on that, which is uh yeah, I think that's exactly what you're talking think that's exactly what you're talking think that's exactly what you're talking about. Um, about. Um, about. Um, >> so talk about brighter for a minute. Um, >> so talk about brighter for a minute. Um, >> so talk about brighter for a minute. Um, you know, we get introduced because you you know, we get introduced because you you know, we get introduced because you use Hunter. Um, but at the same time, I use Hunter. Um, but at the same time, I use Hunter. Um, but at the same time, I know you're also not a big spray and know you're also not a big spray and know you're also not a big spray and prey me, you know, methodology person.

prey me, you know, methodology person. prey me, you know, methodology person. So talk to me a little bit about not So talk to me a little bit about not So talk to me a little bit about not trying to pull a plug out of you, but trying to pull a plug out of you, but trying to pull a plug out of you, but I'm trying to like piggyback off of how I'm trying to like piggyback off of how I'm trying to like piggyback off of how you use Hunter given your philosophical you use Hunter given your philosophical you use Hunter given your philosophical approach to things. approach to things. approach to things. >> Yeah, it's a great question. I came to >> Yeah, it's a great question. I came to >> Yeah, it's a great question. I came to Hunter very early for you guys. It been Hunter very early for you guys. It been Hunter very early for you guys. It been a while and um you know a lot of the AI a while and um you know a lot of the AI a while and um you know a lot of the AI has come into Hunter and I and you can has come into Hunter and I and you can has come into Hunter and I and you can correct me. I don't know if he would correct me. I don't know if he would correct me. I don't know if he would represent it as AI but you know the represent it as AI but you know the represent it as AI but you know the ability to do actual research and was ability to do actual research and was ability to do actual research and was wonderful as it rolled into the platform wonderful as it rolled into the platform wonderful as it rolled into the platform because I was doing all of that already. because I was doing all of that already. because I was doing all of that already. I mean I have always been a huge I mean I have always been a huge I mean I have always been a huge advocate of research research research advocate of research research research advocate of research research research and my research was spending a lot of and my research was spending a lot of and my research was spending a lot of time on LinkedIn. I'd spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. I'd spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. I'd spend a lot of time on the Facebook ad library for time on the Facebook ad library for time on the Facebook ad library for example. I research who's spending how example. I research who's spending how example. I research who's spending how much, what kind of work they're doing, much, what kind of work they're doing, much, what kind of work they're doing, you know, to really understand a you know, to really understand a you know, to really understand a potential customer well. And, you know, potential customer well. And, you know, potential customer well. And, you know, I always think I always think I always think um if you have something someone needs, um if you have something someone needs, um if you have something someone needs, saying hello to them is a favor to them. saying hello to them is a favor to them. saying hello to them is a favor to them. That and that's my simple approach to That and that's my simple approach to That and that's my simple approach to marketing. I I I know you need this marketing. I I I know you need this marketing. I I I know you need this thing. I I have it. Would would you like thing. I I have it. Would would you like thing. I I have it. Would would you like it? So if you can approach everything it? So if you can approach everything it? So if you can approach everything that way from your emailing um it that way from your emailing um it that way from your emailing um it changes everything a lot. You the spray changes everything a lot. You the spray changes everything a lot. You the spray what did you call it? Spray and pray.

what did you call it? Spray and pray. what did you call it? Spray and pray. >> Spray and prey. Yeah. >> Spray and prey. Yeah. >> Spray and prey. Yeah. >> Yeah. That that becomes silly, you know. >> Yeah. That that becomes silly, you know. >> Yeah. That that becomes silly, you know. Now that's not to say when I first came Now that's not to say when I first came Now that's not to say when I first came to Hunter I wasn't doing more um to Hunter I wasn't doing more um to Hunter I wasn't doing more um traditional newsletter type of traditional newsletter type of traditional newsletter type of marketing. And I did that primarily to marketing. And I did that primarily to marketing. And I did that primarily to what I would call uh I guess I would what I would call uh I guess I would what I would call uh I guess I would call warm clients. I mean people going call warm clients. I mean people going call warm clients. I mean people going many and not just simple updates. I've many and not just simple updates. I've many and not just simple updates. I've always been a huge fan of not doing always been a huge fan of not doing always been a huge fan of not doing fancy emails. I come onto a platform fancy emails. I come onto a platform fancy emails. I come onto a platform like Hunter and the first thing I try to like Hunter and the first thing I try to like Hunter and the first thing I try to figure out is how do I get rid of all figure out is how do I get rid of all figure out is how do I get rid of all these gadgets. I don't want any gadgets. these gadgets. I don't want any gadgets. these gadgets. I don't want any gadgets. I want it to just look like an email I want it to just look like an email I want it to just look like an email because normal people that's how we because normal people that's how we because normal people that's how we talk. talk. talk. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I don't I don't want anyone to think >> And I don't I don't want anyone to think >> And I don't I don't want anyone to think I hired a designer overseas to make a I hired a designer overseas to make a I hired a designer overseas to make a fancy email. No, that's not me. I'm fancy email. No, that's not me. I'm fancy email. No, that's not me. I'm calling you Matt. Hey Matt, what's up? calling you Matt. Hey Matt, what's up? calling you Matt. Hey Matt, what's up? How you doing? That's exactly my How you doing? That's exactly my How you doing? That's exactly my approach. So, I usually spend a lot of approach. So, I usually spend a lot of approach. So, I usually spend a lot of time doing a lot of research and what I time doing a lot of research and what I time doing a lot of research and what I love that's happened on the platform is love that's happened on the platform is love that's happened on the platform is you've helped me. I don't have to do you've helped me. I don't have to do you've helped me. I don't have to do quite as much. I double check quite as much. I double check quite as much. I double check everything. I triple check everything, everything. I triple check everything, everything. I triple check everything, but the fact that I can immediately put but the fact that I can immediately put but the fact that I can immediately put in some parameters and get some ideas is in some parameters and get some ideas is in some parameters and get some ideas is very helpful. So, one of the things that very helpful. So, one of the things that very helpful. So, one of the things that I've been thinking and you brought up I've been thinking and you brought up I've been thinking and you brought up you brought up AI is um technology you brought up AI is um technology you brought up AI is um technology weirdly seems to be getting better at weirdly seems to be getting better at weirdly seems to be getting better at making us impersonal making us impersonal making us impersonal >> um despite its claim otherwise.

>> um despite its claim otherwise. >> um despite its claim otherwise. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] And if you think about a lot of the And if you think about a lot of the And if you think about a lot of the video content and why influencers are video content and why influencers are video content and why influencers are valuable in the first place is because valuable in the first place is because valuable in the first place is because they don't feel like an ad. They don't they don't feel like an ad. They don't they don't feel like an ad. They don't look like an ad, right? They're they're look like an ad, right? They're they're look like an ad, right? They're they're bringing you a message in maybe a more bringing you a message in maybe a more bringing you a message in maybe a more palatable way because it's more palatable way because it's more palatable way because it's more trustworthy if it's not an ad. Like trustworthy if it's not an ad. Like trustworthy if it's not an ad. Like there's a theme there, right? Which is there's a theme there, right? Which is there's a theme there, right? Which is that we've created a new form of that we've created a new form of that we've created a new form of advertising that doesn't feel like advertising that doesn't feel like advertising that doesn't feel like advertising. But I wonder have we advertising. But I wonder have we advertising. But I wonder have we saturated that idea? Like have we gone saturated that idea? Like have we gone saturated that idea? Like have we gone have we have we have we Yeah. Like have we just fully saturated Yeah. Like have we just fully saturated Yeah. Like have we just fully saturated that idea now? that idea now? that idea now? >> I don't know. It's a good question. I >> I don't know. It's a good question. I >> I don't know. It's a good question. I mean I'm tasked with making ads just as mean I'm tasked with making ads just as mean I'm tasked with making ads just as you described all the time. you know, you described all the time. you know, you described all the time. you know, paid paid paid quote unquote creators, influencers, quote unquote creators, influencers, quote unquote creators, influencers, whatever you want to call them, and we whatever you want to call them, and we whatever you want to call them, and we hand them a script. Um, it's how it's hand them a script. Um, it's how it's hand them a script. Um, it's how it's done. Uh, sometimes it's not, but often done. Uh, sometimes it's not, but often done. Uh, sometimes it's not, but often it is. And are we done with that? I it is. And are we done with that? I it is. And are we done with that? I think for that younger generation, they think for that younger generation, they think for that younger generation, they they've gotten pretty wise to it. But they've gotten pretty wise to it. But they've gotten pretty wise to it. But again, you know, it's funny you talked again, you know, it's funny you talked again, you know, it's funny you talked about the technology in the beginning of about the technology in the beginning of about the technology in the beginning of this question, and I love that. Um, you this question, and I love that. Um, you this question, and I love that. Um, you know, it's funny in my coaching know, it's funny in my coaching know, it's funny in my coaching community, I spend a lot of time talking community, I spend a lot of time talking community, I spend a lot of time talking people away from the technology. I tell people away from the technology. I tell people away from the technology. I tell them, please just don't waste your time them, please just don't waste your time them, please just don't waste your time with technology. Don't it's it's a with technology. Don't it's it's a with technology. Don't it's it's a distraction. It's no different than the distraction. It's no different than the distraction. It's no different than the television or social media that the the television or social media that the the television or social media that the the the technology is waste of your time.

the technology is waste of your time. the technology is waste of your time. So, as you talked about younger people So, as you talked about younger people So, as you talked about younger people and the targeting and how good it's and the targeting and how good it's and the targeting and how good it's become and their almost um willingness become and their almost um willingness become and their almost um willingness and openness to have, they don't care. and openness to have, they don't care. and openness to have, they don't care. It's not that we're fooling them. We're It's not that we're fooling them. We're It's not that we're fooling them. We're not fooled. They they just honestly not fooled. They they just honestly not fooled. They they just honestly don't care. And if this influencer or don't care. And if this influencer or don't care. And if this influencer or this celebrity or this pseudo celebrity this celebrity or this pseudo celebrity this celebrity or this pseudo celebrity is endorsing um you know this this soft is endorsing um you know this this soft is endorsing um you know this this soft drink, well, I'm watching this person. I drink, well, I'm watching this person. I drink, well, I'm watching this person. I like I like her. I like watching her. like I like her. I like watching her. like I like her. I like watching her. Whatever she's doing, I want to watch. Whatever she's doing, I want to watch. Whatever she's doing, I want to watch. And that's where it gets interesting. And that's where it gets interesting. And that's where it gets interesting. You know, is does she even care that You know, is does she even care that You know, is does she even care that she's working with so and so brand? she's working with so and so brand? she's working with so and so brand? Well, maybe she just needed something to Well, maybe she just needed something to Well, maybe she just needed something to talk about anyway. talk about anyway. talk about anyway. She, you know, I mean, it's awesome that She, you know, I mean, it's awesome that She, you know, I mean, it's awesome that they're paying her, you know, whatever they're paying her, you know, whatever they're paying her, you know, whatever it is, a couple grand to do this video, it is, a couple grand to do this video, it is, a couple grand to do this video, but you know, it also just fills some but you know, it also just fills some but you know, it also just fills some time that she needed to fill. time that she needed to fill. time that she needed to fill. >> That's so interesting. I feel like if >> That's so interesting. I feel like if >> That's so interesting. I feel like if you were to revisit Mountain and you were to revisit Mountain and you were to revisit Mountain and thinking about it this way, it's like, thinking about it this way, it's like, thinking about it this way, it's like, okay, well, if we're no longer captive okay, well, if we're no longer captive okay, well, if we're no longer captive and our advertising has been repackaged and our advertising has been repackaged and our advertising has been repackaged as social sharing, then I wonder should as social sharing, then I wonder should as social sharing, then I wonder should TV ads kind of do the same where you're TV ads kind of do the same where you're TV ads kind of do the same where you're watching a show, but then the interlude watching a show, but then the interlude watching a show, but then the interlude is a commercial, but it's actually more is a commercial, but it's actually more is a commercial, but it's actually more like a show with your favorite like a show with your favorite like a show with your favorite influencer talking about like it feels influencer talking about like it feels influencer talking about like it feels like there's a twist here that if to go like there's a twist here that if to go like there's a twist here that if to go to your point earlier, You like to go to your point earlier, You like to go to your point earlier, You like to go left when everybody else is going right.

left when everybody else is going right. left when everybody else is going right. I feel like there's a moment coming for I feel like there's a moment coming for I feel like there's a moment coming for video that's going to be exactly that video that's going to be exactly that video that's going to be exactly that where we're somehow going to find that where we're somehow going to find that where we're somehow going to find that all the lines of video have gotten all the lines of video have gotten all the lines of video have gotten crossed in weird ways and now a thing crossed in weird ways and now a thing crossed in weird ways and now a thing that's an ad is almost like a show in that's an ad is almost like a show in that's an ad is almost like a show in the middle of a thing that's a show. the middle of a thing that's a show. the middle of a thing that's a show. Like I don't know, there just feels like Like I don't know, there just feels like Like I don't know, there just feels like there's some interesting twists on the there's some interesting twists on the there's some interesting twists on the horizon when it comes to video. horizon when it comes to video. horizon when it comes to video. >> I love that. I absolutely love that. And >> I love that. I absolutely love that. And >> I love that. I absolutely love that. And there's been many people who have there's been many people who have there's been many people who have bridged that. I mean, I remember decades bridged that. I mean, I remember decades bridged that. I mean, I remember decades ago working on Budweiser ads and um we ago working on Budweiser ads and um we ago working on Budweiser ads and um we would create at my company, you know, we would create at my company, you know, we would create at my company, you know, we would might create five or seven or would might create five or seven or would might create five or seven or eight Budweiser ads that were all going eight Budweiser ads that were all going eight Budweiser ads that were all going to play on the Super Bowl and Auggie to play on the Super Bowl and Auggie to play on the Super Bowl and Auggie Bush that would take the ads and he Bush that would take the ads and he Bush that would take the ads and he would program his show in the Super would program his show in the Super would program his show in the Super Bowl. We're going to play this ad, then Bowl. We're going to play this ad, then Bowl. We're going to play this ad, then we're going to play this ad, then we're we're going to play this ad, then we're we're going to play this ad, then we're going to play. So, that kind of thinking going to play. So, that kind of thinking going to play. So, that kind of thinking of putting a show in the show, uh it of putting a show in the show, uh it of putting a show in the show, uh it goes back and That's a good idea. It's a goes back and That's a good idea. It's a goes back and That's a good idea. It's a wonderful idea. And the line blurring wonderful idea. And the line blurring wonderful idea. And the line blurring between like the TV show and the between like the TV show and the between like the TV show and the advertising. Well, you know, when you advertising. Well, you know, when you advertising. Well, you know, when you also consider the fact that the TV show also consider the fact that the TV show also consider the fact that the TV show was very likely heavily sponsored and was very likely heavily sponsored and was very likely heavily sponsored and has tons of product placement and might has tons of product placement and might has tons of product placement and might even have been motivated by ad dollars.

even have been motivated by ad dollars. even have been motivated by ad dollars. I mean, they're all motivated by ad I mean, they're all motivated by ad I mean, they're all motivated by ad dollars actually, but maybe more so. So, dollars actually, but maybe more so. So, dollars actually, but maybe more so. So, you know, there's always that the line you know, there's always that the line you know, there's always that the line between advertising and entertainment. between advertising and entertainment. between advertising and entertainment. They've always been blurred. I mean, They've always been blurred. I mean, They've always been blurred. I mean, they've been blurred from day one. they've been blurred from day one. they've been blurred from day one. >> It's a good point. Yeah. I'm remembering >> It's a good point. Yeah. I'm remembering >> It's a good point. Yeah. I'm remembering black and white uh shows that where the black and white uh shows that where the black and white uh shows that where the host would talk about the ad in real host would talk about the ad in real host would talk about the ad in real time. [clears throat] Uh yeah, the the time. [clears throat] Uh yeah, the the time. [clears throat] Uh yeah, the the sort of live read of the olden days. sort of live read of the olden days. sort of live read of the olden days. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great. >> Okay, you have a long history of doing >> Okay, you have a long history of doing >> Okay, you have a long history of doing this. I'm sure there's just a reputation this. I'm sure there's just a reputation this. I'm sure there's just a reputation there. But when you think about going there. But when you think about going there. But when you think about going out and finding a new client, out and finding a new client, out and finding a new client, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> a lot of the folks that are on that are >> a lot of the folks that are on that are >> a lot of the folks that are on that are watching or listening to Outfox, this is watching or listening to Outfox, this is watching or listening to Outfox, this is where they're spending a lot of their where they're spending a lot of their where they're spending a lot of their mental energy is like mental energy is like mental energy is like >> how do I connect? So like if you think >> how do I connect? So like if you think >> how do I connect? So like if you think about the things that have worked really about the things that have worked really about the things that have worked really really well for you, do you mind giving really well for you, do you mind giving really well for you, do you mind giving some some advice or some guidance to some some advice or some guidance to some some advice or some guidance to people who are listening to Outfox? people who are listening to Outfox? people who are listening to Outfox? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I think my advice Yeah. I mean, and I think my advice Yeah. I mean, and I think my advice would be very very specific to the would be very very specific to the would be very very specific to the creative industry, particularly more so creative industry, particularly more so creative industry, particularly more so to video people, but advertising people to video people, but advertising people to video people, but advertising people and marketing people, but but definitely and marketing people, but but definitely and marketing people, but but definitely creative people. Um, you just have to creative people. Um, you just have to creative people. Um, you just have to lean into your weird. I mean, the lean into your weird. I mean, the lean into your weird. I mean, the weirder you are, the more you you can weirder you are, the more you you can weirder you are, the more you you can be, the better. Um because there's this be, the better. Um because there's this be, the better. Um because there's this race to sameness that it culturally is race to sameness that it culturally is race to sameness that it culturally is so deep in in us. You know, the idea of so deep in in us. You know, the idea of so deep in in us. You know, the idea of the the tall poppy, don't be a tall the the tall poppy, don't be a tall the the tall poppy, don't be a tall poppy, you'll get your head cut off.

poppy, you'll get your head cut off. poppy, you'll get your head cut off. Well, I I say do the opposite. Um Well, I I say do the opposite. Um Well, I I say do the opposite. Um whatever it is that makes you really whatever it is that makes you really whatever it is that makes you really spicy and interesting and and different, spicy and interesting and and different, spicy and interesting and and different, that's the good stuff. Do that. Do more that's the good stuff. Do that. Do more that's the good stuff. Do that. Do more and more and more of that. and don't be and more and more of that. and don't be and more and more of that. and don't be shy about it and be proud of it. That is shy about it and be proud of it. That is shy about it and be proud of it. That is really the way to stand out to to to do really the way to stand out to to to do really the way to stand out to to to do work that matters. Um because it does it work that matters. Um because it does it work that matters. Um because it does it does matter. You know, your voice is does matter. You know, your voice is does matter. You know, your voice is beautiful. All of our voices are really beautiful. All of our voices are really beautiful. All of our voices are really cool um when they're unleashed. So cool um when they're unleashed. So cool um when they're unleashed. So that's my big advice. But like more that's my big advice. But like more that's my big advice. But like more practically, I think you know, talking practically, I think you know, talking practically, I think you know, talking to you and we're on the Hunter podcast, to you and we're on the Hunter podcast, to you and we're on the Hunter podcast, so it's really more tactical. You know, so it's really more tactical. You know, so it's really more tactical. You know, how do you do that? How do you find how do you do that? How do you find how do you do that? How do you find people? Because that's really where people? Because that's really where people? Because that's really where struggle is, you know, I it's easy to struggle is, you know, I it's easy to struggle is, you know, I it's easy to say, "Yeah, be more you." Sure. Nike say, "Yeah, be more you." Sure. Nike say, "Yeah, be more you." Sure. Nike told us that a long time ago, but but told us that a long time ago, but but told us that a long time ago, but but how do you actually find people? Well, I how do you actually find people? Well, I how do you actually find people? Well, I think it's really think it's really think it's really just don't be shy about talking about just don't be shy about talking about just don't be shy about talking about it. And whether you're talking about it it. And whether you're talking about it it. And whether you're talking about it on social media, whether you're talking on social media, whether you're talking on social media, whether you're talking about it at networking events, whether about it at networking events, whether about it at networking events, whether you're talking about it with emails, it you're talking about it with emails, it you're talking about it with emails, it really doesn't matter. Just enjoy it.

really doesn't matter. Just enjoy it. really doesn't matter. Just enjoy it. lean into it and find your community of lean into it and find your community of lean into it and find your community of other people who are interested in that other people who are interested in that other people who are interested in that too. That's how I did it. I mean, how I too. That's how I did it. I mean, how I too. That's how I did it. I mean, how I got involved in what I do is I love got involved in what I do is I love got involved in what I do is I love music. I started in the music business music. I started in the music business music. I started in the music business in New York City and I wanted to be in New York City and I wanted to be in New York City and I wanted to be around those kind of people. I like around those kind of people. I like around those kind of people. I like music people. So, I hung out where there music people. So, I hung out where there music people. So, I hung out where there was other music people and that led me was other music people and that led me was other music people and that led me to a job at MTV which led me a job in to a job at MTV which led me a job in to a job at MTV which led me a job in advertising which led me right here to advertising which led me right here to advertising which led me right here to talking to you. So that's really is the talking to you. So that's really is the talking to you. So that's really is the path. And again, I'm not like there's path. And again, I'm not like there's path. And again, I'm not like there's not some giant wisdom here, but but the not some giant wisdom here, but but the not some giant wisdom here, but but the truth of the matter is is the wisdom is truth of the matter is is the wisdom is truth of the matter is is the wisdom is don't try to be like everybody else. don't try to be like everybody else. don't try to be like everybody else. >> Yeah. Which sounds sort of like a >> Yeah. Which sounds sort of like a >> Yeah. Which sounds sort of like a platitude, but no, like there Yeah, platitude, but no, like there Yeah, platitude, but no, like there Yeah, there's some reality to that. I I have a there's some reality to that. I I have a there's some reality to that. I I have a recent example. Um recent example. Um recent example. Um uh my oldest son uh who's having a uh my oldest son uh who's having a uh my oldest son uh who's having a phenomenal successful tech career of his phenomenal successful tech career of his phenomenal successful tech career of his own was was recently talking uh to a new own was was recently talking uh to a new own was was recently talking uh to a new company where he's now employed and uh company where he's now employed and uh company where he's now employed and uh apparently he was so different in his apparently he was so different in his apparently he was so different in his response that they basically said every response that they basically said every response that they basically said every other person who interviewed gave us other person who interviewed gave us other person who interviewed gave us almost exactly the same response to each almost exactly the same response to each almost exactly the same response to each other. you were the only one that said other. you were the only one that said other. you were the only one that said what you said. And we thought it was the what you said. And we thought it was the what you said. And we thought it was the right answer. And I was like, yeah. And right answer. And I was like, yeah. And right answer. And I was like, yeah. And like usually in society, you're told, like usually in society, you're told, like usually in society, you're told, "No, no, no. Conform, you know, gra, you "No, no, no. Conform, you know, gra, you "No, no, no. Conform, you know, gra, you know, find your way to the middle." So know, find your way to the middle." So know, find your way to the middle." So that you know, the the tall poppy I

that you know, the the tall poppy I that you know, the the tall poppy I like. Um but yeah, he did exactly the like. Um but yeah, he did exactly the like. Um but yeah, he did exactly the opposite. and not necessarily as a opposite. and not necessarily as a opposite. and not necessarily as a weirdo, although uh I that's a whole weirdo, although uh I that's a whole weirdo, although uh I that's a whole other topic, but um but yeah, but he did other topic, but um but yeah, but he did other topic, but um but yeah, but he did it by just like sticking to his guns it by just like sticking to his guns it by just like sticking to his guns that like no, I think this is right and that like no, I think this is right and that like no, I think this is right and I'm going to continue to say it until I'm going to continue to say it until I'm going to continue to say it until somebody takes me up on it. And somebody somebody takes me up on it. And somebody somebody takes me up on it. And somebody finally did, which I love. finally did, which I love. finally did, which I love. >> Well, his bravery is probably what >> Well, his bravery is probably what >> Well, his bravery is probably what showed out more than anything else. I showed out more than anything else. I showed out more than anything else. I mean, whether they agree, and I find mean, whether they agree, and I find mean, whether they agree, and I find that when I'm talking to people, too. that when I'm talking to people, too. that when I'm talking to people, too. When someone's willing to really like When someone's willing to really like When someone's willing to really like go, "Huh, I don't get something." go, "Huh, I don't get something." go, "Huh, I don't get something." >> I'm immediately leaning in >> I'm immediately leaning in >> I'm immediately leaning in >> because I love that. I love how brave >> because I love that. I love how brave >> because I love that. I love how brave you are. Just that you're willing to say you are. Just that you're willing to say you are. Just that you're willing to say something that wasn't what I expected something that wasn't what I expected something that wasn't what I expected you to say. I think that's fantastic. you to say. I think that's fantastic. you to say. I think that's fantastic. >> Today's episode is brought to you by >> Today's episode is brought to you by >> Today's episode is brought to you by Hunter.io, IO the B2B lead generation Hunter.io, IO the B2B lead generation Hunter.io, IO the B2B lead generation platform made for every professional. platform made for every professional. platform made for every professional. Whether it's prospecting, fundraising, Whether it's prospecting, fundraising, Whether it's prospecting, fundraising, recruiting, link building, or just recruiting, link building, or just recruiting, link building, or just trying to connect with the right people, trying to connect with the right people, trying to connect with the right people, Hunter makes it easy. Hunter makes it easy. Hunter makes it easy. >> Okay. I would guess you don't consider >> Okay. I would guess you don't consider >> Okay. I would guess you don't consider yourself a salesperson. Is that correct?

yourself a salesperson. Is that correct? yourself a salesperson. Is that correct? >> I do >> I do >> I do consider myself a salesperson. I consider myself a salesperson. I consider myself a salesperson. I >> Okay. I think any entrepreneur or >> Okay. I think any entrepreneur or >> Okay. I think any entrepreneur or business owner, you know, you have to business owner, you know, you have to business owner, you know, you have to wear many hats as an entrepreneur, wear many hats as an entrepreneur, wear many hats as an entrepreneur, business owner, but the sales hat, it business owner, but the sales hat, it business owner, but the sales hat, it never really completely goes away. I never really completely goes away. I never really completely goes away. I mean, if you're not, you know, it's very mean, if you're not, you know, it's very mean, if you're not, you know, it's very nice to create great ideas and they're nice to create great ideas and they're nice to create great ideas and they're wonderful and very satisfying and, you wonderful and very satisfying and, you wonderful and very satisfying and, you know, I find it what my fuel is is the know, I find it what my fuel is is the know, I find it what my fuel is is the idea of creating, but if you're not idea of creating, but if you're not idea of creating, but if you're not giving it to anybody else, if it's not giving it to anybody else, if it's not giving it to anybody else, if it's not connecting with a consumer of any kind, connecting with a consumer of any kind, connecting with a consumer of any kind, what's the point? So, there's always a what's the point? So, there's always a what's the point? So, there's always a sales aspect to everything we do. So, sales aspect to everything we do. So, sales aspect to everything we do. So, yeah, I I totally consider myself a yeah, I I totally consider myself a yeah, I I totally consider myself a salesperson. But when you describe salesperson. But when you describe salesperson. But when you describe yourself to people, what what how do you yourself to people, what what how do you yourself to people, what what how do you usually describe yourself? usually describe yourself? usually describe yourself? >> I assume you don't lead with a >> I assume you don't lead with a >> I assume you don't lead with a salesperson. salesperson. salesperson. >> No, no, definitely not. But that's not I >> No, no, definitely not. But that's not I >> No, no, definitely not. But that's not I mean, but again, in saying that mean, but again, in saying that mean, but again, in saying that everybody has not everybody, any everybody has not everybody, any everybody has not everybody, any entrepreneur or business owner, you end entrepreneur or business owner, you end entrepreneur or business owner, you end up having to have a certain amount of up having to have a certain amount of up having to have a certain amount of sales responsibility, but when someone sales responsibility, but when someone sales responsibility, but when someone askked me what do I do, you know, I I askked me what do I do, you know, I I askked me what do I do, you know, I I it's most people who ask me what I do it's most people who ask me what I do it's most people who ask me what I do kind of already know what I do a little kind of already know what I do a little kind of already know what I do a little bit. So I usually am just trying to bit. So I usually am just trying to bit. So I usually am just trying to fine-tune it and I try to define it more fine-tune it and I try to define it more fine-tune it and I try to define it more clearly which would be I create direct clearly which would be I create direct clearly which would be I create direct to consumer advertising for CTV or for to consumer advertising for CTV or for to consumer advertising for CTV or for social. Now that sounds like a lot of social. Now that sounds like a lot of social. Now that sounds like a lot of jargon but the point of the preumble is jargon but the point of the preumble is jargon but the point of the preumble is for people something about video for people something about video for people something about video already. That's what I do. And when I already. That's what I do. And when I already. That's what I do. And when I work with my coaching business people work with my coaching business people work with my coaching business people ask me what I do with that. I typically ask me what I do with that. I typically ask me what I do with that. I typically tell them, well, you know, video

tell them, well, you know, video tell them, well, you know, video professionals are amazing creative professionals are amazing creative professionals are amazing creative people, but they absolutely suck when it people, but they absolutely suck when it people, but they absolutely suck when it comes to talking about what they do or comes to talking about what they do or comes to talking about what they do or sell or or marketing, and I help them sell or or marketing, and I help them sell or or marketing, and I help them fix that. You know, that's how I fix that. You know, that's how I fix that. You know, that's how I describe the things I do. describe the things I do. describe the things I do. >> That's great. Yeah. Why is it creative >> That's great. Yeah. Why is it creative >> That's great. Yeah. Why is it creative people are so bad at this? people are so bad at this? people are so bad at this? >> I I Well, I I I love that question. I >> I I Well, I I I love that question. I >> I I Well, I I I love that question. I think it's because by and large, we hide think it's because by and large, we hide think it's because by and large, we hide in the creative. I think we are actors in the creative. I think we are actors in the creative. I think we are actors in our hearts. We we love the act of in our hearts. We we love the act of in our hearts. We we love the act of creating. We love the act of, you know, creating. We love the act of, you know, creating. We love the act of, you know, turning the lights down low and getting turning the lights down low and getting turning the lights down low and getting in a small space and creating. And in a small space and creating. And in a small space and creating. And that's a bit of a hide, if you will. that's a bit of a hide, if you will. that's a bit of a hide, if you will. It's a bit of a internal uh process. So, It's a bit of a internal uh process. So, It's a bit of a internal uh process. So, we're not great at being out in the we're not great at being out in the we're not great at being out in the world. I mean, you have your actors who world. I mean, you have your actors who world. I mean, you have your actors who are obviously that's a little different. are obviously that's a little different. are obviously that's a little different. But for most of us, like me in in the But for most of us, like me in in the But for most of us, like me in in the video production world, we didn't want video production world, we didn't want video production world, we didn't want to be in front of the camera. We chose to be in front of the camera. We chose to be in front of the camera. We chose to be behind the camera. So, when it's to be behind the camera. So, when it's to be behind the camera. So, when it's time to talk about ourselves, that gets time to talk about ourselves, that gets time to talk about ourselves, that gets very awkward quickly.

very awkward quickly. very awkward quickly. >> It does. I feel like um creative people >> It does. I feel like um creative people >> It does. I feel like um creative people all should be assigned like when you all should be assigned like when you all should be assigned like when you raise your hand and you're like, I'm raise your hand and you're like, I'm raise your hand and you're like, I'm going to pursue a life in the creative going to pursue a life in the creative going to pursue a life in the creative field somewhere. You should just be field somewhere. You should just be field somewhere. You should just be assigned a hype man. who just follows assigned a hype man. who just follows assigned a hype man. who just follows you around for the rest of your life to you around for the rest of your life to you around for the rest of your life to tell people what you've done in a way tell people what you've done in a way tell people what you've done in a way that isn't downplaying it. You know, that isn't downplaying it. You know, that isn't downplaying it. You know, it's not just giving people the facts. it's not just giving people the facts. it's not just giving people the facts. >> That's a big part of what I coach people >> That's a big part of what I coach people >> That's a big part of what I coach people who are entering the video space. That who are entering the video space. That who are entering the video space. That is a huge part of it. And I I wouldn't is a huge part of it. And I I wouldn't is a huge part of it. And I I wouldn't have said hype man if I was going to do have said hype man if I was going to do have said hype man if I was going to do it, but I liked how you said it very it, but I liked how you said it very it, but I liked how you said it very much. But I do like to help people in much. But I do like to help people in much. But I do like to help people in terms of understanding that the world terms of understanding that the world terms of understanding that the world has changed quite a bit and we're all has changed quite a bit and we're all has changed quite a bit and we're all unfortunately a little bit of islands in unfortunately a little bit of islands in unfortunately a little bit of islands in you know little islands have to do a lot you know little islands have to do a lot you know little islands have to do a lot more than we did when we worked for more than we did when we worked for more than we did when we worked for networks and ad agencies and studios. So networks and ad agencies and studios. So networks and ad agencies and studios. So you do have to have that component into you do have to have that component into you do have to have that component into what you do and again getting back to what you do and again getting back to what you do and again getting back to the younger folks they know that you the younger folks they know that you the younger folks they know that you know having come up in the world of know having come up in the world of know having come up in the world of social media and influencers and stuff social media and influencers and stuff social media and influencers and stuff they they get. So, anybody listening at they they get. So, anybody listening at they they get. So, anybody listening at this point who's like, "Okay, background this point who's like, "Okay, background this point who's like, "Okay, background in video, big ads, big brands, shows in video, big ads, big brands, shows in video, big ads, big brands, shows like, you know, channels like MTV, which like, you know, channels like MTV, which like, you know, channels like MTV, which resonates with me, but they would resonates with me, but they would resonates with me, but they would probably think, hey, that, you know, probably think, hey, that, you know, probably think, hey, that, you know, Jonathan is an expert at getting as big Jonathan is an expert at getting as big Jonathan is an expert at getting as big of a reach and is doing as much outreach of a reach and is doing as much outreach of a reach and is doing as much outreach as possible, hitting the largest as possible, hitting the largest as possible, hitting the largest audience possible." So, how many when audience possible." So, how many when audience possible." So, how many when you do an outreach campaign, when you're you do an outreach campaign, when you're you do an outreach campaign, when you're reaching out to try to find new clients, reaching out to try to find new clients, reaching out to try to find new clients, how many people are you generally how many people are you generally how many people are you generally targeting at any one time? At any one targeting at any one time? At any one targeting at any one time? At any one time for brighter I'm typically looking

time for brighter I'm typically looking time for brighter I'm typically looking at a list of probably 10 people that at a list of probably 10 people that at a list of probably 10 people that really matter. Uh I have obviously I really matter. Uh I have obviously I really matter. Uh I have obviously I will have a cold pile of people who I will have a cold pile of people who I will have a cold pile of people who I will send occasional emails to for will send occasional emails to for will send occasional emails to for awareness. I don't really think anything awareness. I don't really think anything awareness. I don't really think anything will come of that other than just I big will come of that other than just I big will come of that other than just I big believer that you need to stay on top of believer that you need to stay on top of believer that you need to stay on top of people's radar and the best way to do people's radar and the best way to do people's radar and the best way to do that is just keep going and keep going that is just keep going and keep going that is just keep going and keep going and we send a little piece of value in and we send a little piece of value in and we send a little piece of value in every email if I can and I do the same every email if I can and I do the same every email if I can and I do the same with social. I post on social media most with social. I post on social media most with social. I post on social media most days. days. days. But in terms of real it's like 10 and But in terms of real it's like 10 and But in terms of real it's like 10 and it's an evolving list. I'm always it's an evolving list. I'm always it's an evolving list. I'm always looking at, you know, who's doing what looking at, you know, who's doing what looking at, you know, who's doing what on, like I said, on Meta. That's where I on, like I said, on Meta. That's where I on, like I said, on Meta. That's where I really look. And I also look at what is really look. And I also look at what is really look. And I also look at what is happening on CTV, uh, on Vibe, on happening on CTV, uh, on Vibe, on happening on CTV, uh, on Vibe, on Mountain, on all of the platforms. And I Mountain, on all of the platforms. And I Mountain, on all of the platforms. And I keep an eye on what's being produced and keep an eye on what's being produced and keep an eye on what's being produced and who's there and who's leaving and who's who's there and who's leaving and who's who's there and who's leaving and who's coming. So, it's pretty small list. I coming. So, it's pretty small list. I coming. So, it's pretty small list. I mean, there's not that many people who mean, there's not that many people who mean, there's not that many people who need exactly what it is. I love doing need exactly what it is. I love doing need exactly what it is. I love doing >> because they're usually bigger brands or >> because they're usually bigger brands or >> because they're usually bigger brands or is there some other criteria?

is there some other criteria? is there some other criteria? >> No, what I do specifically are the >> No, what I do specifically are the >> No, what I do specifically are the transitional brands. They're typically transitional brands. They're typically transitional brands. They're typically brands that are mid to small and are on brands that are mid to small and are on brands that are mid to small and are on their way to hiring a large ad agency, their way to hiring a large ad agency, their way to hiring a large ad agency, but they probably haven't yet or they but they probably haven't yet or they but they probably haven't yet or they just did and they don't completely trust just did and they don't completely trust just did and they don't completely trust them yet. or you know or occasionally them yet. or you know or occasionally them yet. or you know or occasionally it's a brand that's bigger like into it it's a brand that's bigger like into it it's a brand that's bigger like into it who have to create some of their who have to create some of their who have to create some of their marketing internal and they have some of marketing internal and they have some of marketing internal and they have some of their other marketing at a big agency in their other marketing at a big agency in their other marketing at a big agency in New York but by and large I'm looking New York but by and large I'm looking New York but by and large I'm looking for that transitional brand that you for that transitional brand that you for that transitional brand that you know maybe just got some big funding and know maybe just got some big funding and know maybe just got some big funding and they're they're trying to get out bigger they're they're trying to get out bigger they're they're trying to get out bigger and so it's a smaller gang and so it's a smaller gang and so it's a smaller gang >> okay so 10 that's I mean this is >> okay so 10 that's I mean this is >> okay so 10 that's I mean this is obviously the polar opposite end of the obviously the polar opposite end of the obviously the polar opposite end of the broad outreach um Is that because broad outreach um Is that because broad outreach um Is that because the numbers don't work for you? You said the numbers don't work for you? You said the numbers don't work for you? You said it's because there's a small audience, it's because there's a small audience, it's because there's a small audience, but like there's surely more than 10 at but like there's surely more than 10 at but like there's surely more than 10 at any given time that are a fit. Yeah. any given time that are a fit. Yeah. any given time that are a fit. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I only have capacity for 10 >> Yeah. But I only have capacity for 10 >> Yeah. But I only have capacity for 10 because my my feeling about marketing because my my feeling about marketing because my my feeling about marketing and about my company for Brighter in and about my company for Brighter in and about my company for Brighter in particular is I really want to know particular is I really want to know particular is I really want to know them. Like I want to know like that head them. Like I want to know like that head them. Like I want to know like that head of marketing, that founder, that you of marketing, that founder, that you of marketing, that founder, that you know chief creative officer, know chief creative officer, know chief creative officer, what are they up to? What do they care what are they up to? What do they care what are they up to? What do they care about? What are they doing? And I want about? What are they doing? And I want about? What are they doing? And I want to build trust. That's all I think to build trust. That's all I think to build trust. That's all I think about. I want to become aware them about. I want to become aware them about. I want to become aware them become aware of what I do and what my become aware of what I do and what my become aware of what I do and what my company does and build trust with them.

company does and build trust with them. company does and build trust with them. Uh and the only way to do that is to Uh and the only way to do that is to Uh and the only way to do that is to really really really >> dial in and and create conversations and >> dial in and and create conversations and >> dial in and and create conversations and really engage. I mean that that so I really engage. I mean that that so I really engage. I mean that that so I really only have capacity for 10 at any really only have capacity for 10 at any really only have capacity for 10 at any given time and I do spend a lot of time given time and I do spend a lot of time given time and I do spend a lot of time on this. I have to I mean to to keep my on this. I have to I mean to to keep my on this. I have to I mean to to keep my company going it's it's really company going it's it's really company going it's it's really necessary. necessary. necessary. >> Makes sense. >> Makes sense. >> Makes sense. >> So then your outreach is probably very >> So then your outreach is probably very >> So then your outreach is probably very different. You've talked about value and different. You've talked about value and different. You've talked about value and I want to come back to this because I I want to come back to this because I I want to come back to this because I think we have we talk a lot about it. We think we have we talk a lot about it. We think we have we talk a lot about it. We talk to a lot of people that mention talk to a lot of people that mention talk to a lot of people that mention value. What does that what does what value. What does that what does what value. What does that what does what does a piece of value look like for you? does a piece of value look like for you? does a piece of value look like for you? So, like let's say you were going to So, like let's say you were going to So, like let's say you were going to email those 10 folks next week or it's a email those 10 folks next week or it's a email those 10 folks next week or it's a new 10 folks, whatever. Uh new 10 folks, whatever. Uh new 10 folks, whatever. Uh what's what would be a piece of value what's what would be a piece of value what's what would be a piece of value that you would that you would try to that you would that you would try to that you would that you would try to share with somebody? share with somebody? share with somebody? >> You know that story you told about your >> You know that story you told about your >> You know that story you told about your son? son? son? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> that's value. >> that's value. >> that's value. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Being honest, being real. Telling >> Being honest, being real. Telling >> Being honest, being real. Telling someone that they're doing something someone that they're doing something someone that they're doing something wrong, that's value. Telling them that wrong, that's value. Telling them that wrong, that's value. Telling them that they're doing something really right, they're doing something really right, they're doing something really right, that's value, too.

that's value, too. that's value, too. or just offering perspective on how it or just offering perspective on how it or just offering perspective on how it could be done differently. But it's could be done differently. But it's could be done differently. But it's really adding real thinking, you know, really adding real thinking, you know, really adding real thinking, you know, add real thinking to the to the story. add real thinking to the to the story. add real thinking to the to the story. Um, you know, the tactics like the word Um, you know, the tactics like the word Um, you know, the tactics like the word value is so interesting because this value is so interesting because this value is so interesting because this gets into this marketing speak that's so gets into this marketing speak that's so gets into this marketing speak that's so popular right now. And you know, popular right now. And you know, popular right now. And you know, everyone talks about lead magnets and everyone talks about lead magnets and everyone talks about lead magnets and they're going to write a a fake book or they're going to write a a fake book or they're going to write a a fake book or they're going to what create a quiz they're going to what create a quiz they're going to what create a quiz using a quiz app or you know, all these using a quiz app or you know, all these using a quiz app or you know, all these value things which are not really all value things which are not really all value things which are not really all that valuable. Um, it's astonishing to that valuable. Um, it's astonishing to that valuable. Um, it's astonishing to me because the thing that's the most me because the thing that's the most me because the thing that's the most value in the world is time. Your time is value in the world is time. Your time is value in the world is time. Your time is the only thing that really has value. So the only thing that really has value. So the only thing that really has value. So all of those things I just mentioned, all of those things I just mentioned, all of those things I just mentioned, the book, the quiz, the um I don't know, the book, the quiz, the um I don't know, the book, the quiz, the um I don't know, they require your customer's time. Um they require your customer's time. Um they require your customer's time. Um that's a huge ask. Uh that's not value. that's a huge ask. Uh that's not value. that's a huge ask. Uh that's not value. Value is when the time was worth it, Value is when the time was worth it, Value is when the time was worth it, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> right? >> right? >> right? >> No, you have to really have something in >> No, you have to really have something in >> No, you have to really have something in there. Otherwise, you piss them off, there. Otherwise, you piss them off, there. Otherwise, you piss them off, quite frankly.

quite frankly. quite frankly. >> And it's exactly the opposite of what >> And it's exactly the opposite of what >> And it's exactly the opposite of what you want to do. you want to do. you want to do. >> I This is great. I think, you know, I >> I This is great. I think, you know, I >> I This is great. I think, you know, I almost feel like I need to do another almost feel like I need to do another almost feel like I need to do another series of of of these conversations just series of of of these conversations just series of of of these conversations just talking about what value means because talking about what value means because talking about what value means because honestly, I don't think people really honestly, I don't think people really honestly, I don't think people really understand. I think you're right. Like, understand. I think you're right. Like, understand. I think you're right. Like, we've been told by marketing companies we've been told by marketing companies we've been told by marketing companies selling things to us that this is value, selling things to us that this is value, selling things to us that this is value, you know, landing pages, right? Like, you know, landing pages, right? Like, you know, landing pages, right? Like, you know, HubSpot has a feature for you know, HubSpot has a feature for you know, HubSpot has a feature for landing pages. So, they tell you that's landing pages. So, they tell you that's landing pages. So, they tell you that's valuable, but valuable, but valuable, but >> valuable. >> valuable. >> valuable. >> It's totally different. Yeah, I like >> It's totally different. Yeah, I like >> It's totally different. Yeah, I like that. I like that. That's um that. I like that. That's um that. I like that. That's um >> there's very popular podcast about how >> there's very popular podcast about how >> there's very popular podcast about how quiz apps are very very very valuable. quiz apps are very very very valuable. quiz apps are very very very valuable. >> But are they right? Exactly. [laughter] >> Well, this is a great transition into a >> Well, this is a great transition into a segment uh where we actually will share segment uh where we actually will share segment uh where we actually will share emails. emails. emails. >> Oh, great. >> Oh, great. >> Oh, great. >> Um that we've each received and we'll >> Um that we've each received and we'll >> Um that we've each received and we'll kind of just give real feedback and kind kind of just give real feedback and kind kind of just give real feedback and kind of rewrite them live. And so I'd love to of rewrite them live. And so I'd love to of rewrite them live. And so I'd love to do that with you. Um uh James has popped do that with you. Um uh James has popped do that with you. Um uh James has popped up the first one. I'll read these. This up the first one. I'll read these. This up the first one. I'll read these. This is our outreach ASMR segment, I guess.

is our outreach ASMR segment, I guess. is our outreach ASMR segment, I guess. So, let me get my ASMR voice. So, let me get my ASMR voice. So, let me get my ASMR voice. >> Uh, so the subject is quick one about >> Uh, so the subject is quick one about >> Uh, so the subject is quick one about Hunter.io's content. Hunter.io's content. Hunter.io's content. >> Hi, James. I've been looking at how >> Hi, James. I've been looking at how >> Hi, James. I've been looking at how Hunter.io shows up online. Strong Hunter.io shows up online. Strong Hunter.io shows up online. Strong messaging, but I noticed there's limited messaging, but I noticed there's limited messaging, but I noticed there's limited original photovide content featuring original photovide content featuring original photovide content featuring your team. your team. your team. >> Are you currently producing in-house >> Are you currently producing in-house >> Are you currently producing in-house content for LinkedIn campaigns or your content for LinkedIn campaigns or your content for LinkedIn campaigns or your website? I work with London marketing website? I work with London marketing website? I work with London marketing teams to create sharp onbrand visuals teams to create sharp onbrand visuals teams to create sharp onbrand visuals without disrupting the team. Fast without disrupting the team. Fast without disrupting the team. Fast turnaround, on-site setup, fully turnaround, on-site setup, fully turnaround, on-site setup, fully managed, worth a quick chat to explore. managed, worth a quick chat to explore. managed, worth a quick chat to explore. What do you think of this one? What do you think of this one? What do you think of this one? >> Well, the person who wrote it has has >> Well, the person who wrote it has has >> Well, the person who wrote it has has some good ideas. They have some good some good ideas. They have some good some good ideas. They have some good intent, but unfortunately it sounds like intent, but unfortunately it sounds like intent, but unfortunately it sounds like a robot wrote that. So, immediately it a robot wrote that. So, immediately it a robot wrote that. So, immediately it gets thrown away for that. Um, I don't I gets thrown away for that. Um, I don't I gets thrown away for that. Um, I don't I haven't really established any trust. I haven't really established any trust. I haven't really established any trust. I don't know why I would because it looks don't know why I would because it looks don't know why I would because it looks like a robot wrote that. like a robot wrote that. like a robot wrote that. While it says that Hunter shows up While it says that Hunter shows up While it says that Hunter shows up online with strong messaging, well gosh, online with strong messaging, well gosh, online with strong messaging, well gosh, why didn't they cite some actual why didn't they cite some actual why didn't they cite some actual messaging? That wouldn't have been that messaging? That wouldn't have been that messaging? That wouldn't have been that hard.

hard. hard. Why didn't they why didn't they just Why didn't they why didn't they just Why didn't they why didn't they just take a Hunter piece of content and take a Hunter piece of content and take a Hunter piece of content and rework it with an actual example of how rework it with an actual example of how rework it with an actual example of how they would do it and just send a really they would do it and just send a really they would do it and just send a really simple email. Hey, James, I love the ad simple email. Hey, James, I love the ad simple email. Hey, James, I love the ad you did. Here is a way I would have you did. Here is a way I would have you did. Here is a way I would have redone this using some of the redone this using some of the redone this using some of the capabilities we have. Now, that's kind capabilities we have. Now, that's kind capabilities we have. Now, that's kind of sucks. I would fix that, but you of sucks. I would fix that, but you of sucks. I would fix that, but you know, actually do it like show that you know, actually do it like show that you know, actually do it like show that you really did see the content and just go really did see the content and just go really did see the content and just go right ahead. Show them what you would right ahead. Show them what you would right ahead. Show them what you would have done with it. have done with it. have done with it. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> why not? >> why not? >> why not? I would love this for have done even if I would love this for have done even if I would love this for have done even if they got it wrong, which they they got it wrong, which they they got it wrong, which they undoubtedly would have gotten it wrong, undoubtedly would have gotten it wrong, undoubtedly would have gotten it wrong, it wouldn't have been the right brand it wouldn't have been the right brand it wouldn't have been the right brand colors or wouldn't have been the right colors or wouldn't have been the right colors or wouldn't have been the right logos or whatever that but just the fact logos or whatever that but just the fact logos or whatever that but just the fact that they were willing to put skin in that they were willing to put skin in that they were willing to put skin in the game, I would have been like, "Oh, the game, I would have been like, "Oh, the game, I would have been like, "Oh, that's cool. They did that." that's cool. They did that." that's cool. They did that." >> Yeah, it's a good point. I actually even >> Yeah, it's a good point. I actually even >> Yeah, it's a good point. I actually even if we just piggyback on this one for a if we just piggyback on this one for a if we just piggyback on this one for a second. second. second. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How hard would it be to screenshot a web >> How hard would it be to screenshot a web >> How hard would it be to screenshot a web page page page >> and overlay >> and overlay >> and overlay a graphic that illustrates what you're a graphic that illustrates what you're a graphic that illustrates what you're talking about, right? Like I'm pretty talking about, right? Like I'm pretty talking about, right? Like I'm pretty sure you could even automate some of sure you could even automate some of sure you could even automate some of that if that was the direction you that if that was the direction you that if that was the direction you wanted to go. Although that kind of wanted to go. Although that kind of wanted to go. Although that kind of defeats the purpose, but the point is defeats the purpose, but the point is defeats the purpose, but the point is that's something that's real value.

that's something that's real value. that's something that's real value. You're giving them a perspective on You're giving them a perspective on You're giving them a perspective on their website that they might not have their website that they might not have their website that they might not have thought about and you're delivering a thought about and you're delivering a thought about and you're delivering a potential solution to that. So yeah, I potential solution to that. So yeah, I potential solution to that. So yeah, I think think think >> I love your example. Even if they just >> I love your example. Even if they just >> I love your example. Even if they just would have handwritten on top of it, would have handwritten on top of it, would have handwritten on top of it, that would have maybe been better. that would have maybe been better. that would have maybe been better. >> Yeah, here's a box photo here. Yeah, >> Yeah, here's a box photo here. Yeah, >> Yeah, here's a box photo here. Yeah, it's something like that. also trust it's something like that. also trust it's something like that. also trust building. You mentioned that without building. You mentioned that without building. You mentioned that without being prompted. There's no signature. being prompted. There's no signature. being prompted. There's no signature. There's no brand name. There's no There's no brand name. There's no There's no brand name. There's no references to other social proof. references to other social proof. references to other social proof. There's nothing here to create any There's nothing here to create any There's nothing here to create any legitimacy or I don't know trust of any legitimacy or I don't know trust of any legitimacy or I don't know trust of any kind. Do you do you see anything here? kind. Do you do you see anything here? kind. Do you do you see anything here? Like would you have trusted this me Like would you have trusted this me Like would you have trusted this me email? email? email? >> No. And I didn't even notice that I >> No. And I didn't even notice that I >> No. And I didn't even notice that I didn't put it because it's funny you say didn't put it because it's funny you say didn't put it because it's funny you say it because I've become accustomed to it because I've become accustomed to it because I've become accustomed to that now. Uh I think I put two examples that now. Uh I think I put two examples that now. Uh I think I put two examples for us for this talk which we can use or for us for this talk which we can use or for us for this talk which we can use or not use. I don't care. I think both of not use. I don't care. I think both of not use. I don't care. I think both of them lack uh a signature. them lack uh a signature. them lack uh a signature. >> Why? Well, so it turns out the three >> Why? Well, so it turns out the three >> Why? Well, so it turns out the three dots there is the Google Gmail thing dots there is the Google Gmail thing dots there is the Google Gmail thing that hides your signature.

that hides your signature. that hides your signature. >> And so what happens is when you send it, >> And so what happens is when you send it, >> And so what happens is when you send it, it should expose it. But often it gets it should expose it. But often it gets it should expose it. But often it gets collapsed and when you open it, that collapsed and when you open it, that collapsed and when you open it, that collapsing of the signature stays there. collapsing of the signature stays there. collapsing of the signature stays there. And so what ends up happening is this is And so what ends up happening is this is And so what ends up happening is this is exactly what it will look like to your exactly what it will look like to your exactly what it will look like to your recipient. Not all the time recipient. Not all the time recipient. Not all the time >> if you put your signature above and you >> if you put your signature above and you >> if you put your signature above and you don't just have Google stick it in, but don't just have Google stick it in, but don't just have Google stick it in, but it's it's it's >> Yeah. But regardless is they didn't >> Yeah. But regardless is they didn't >> Yeah. But regardless is they didn't think about this. think about this. think about this. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's what I think of that. I don't think that what I think of that. I don't think that what I think of that. I don't think that that email is useful. And the thing that email is useful. And the thing that email is useful. And the thing that's really um sad about that email is that's really um sad about that email is that's really um sad about that email is that um you know if this is a a a video that um you know if this is a a a video that um you know if this is a a a video or a photo creation team in London well or a photo creation team in London well or a photo creation team in London well you know to land an account for you all you know to land an account for you all you know to land an account for you all that would be a good land that would be that would be a good land that would be that would be a good land that would be really good. You'd think this might be really good. You'd think this might be really good. You'd think this might be worth some time. worth some time. worth some time. >> You'd think so. Especially fully managed >> You'd think so. Especially fully managed >> You'd think so. Especially fully managed on-site setup. Honestly to me as a on-site setup. Honestly to me as a on-site setup. Honestly to me as a potential buyer of services like this I potential buyer of services like this I potential buyer of services like this I feel like they really buried the lead. feel like they really buried the lead. feel like they really buried the lead. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. Um, yeah. >> Like, [laughter] like, wait, you do on >> Like, [laughter] like, wait, you do on >> Like, [laughter] like, wait, you do on brand visuals that don't disrupt the brand visuals that don't disrupt the brand visuals that don't disrupt the team with a fast turnaround on-site team with a fast turnaround on-site team with a fast turnaround on-site setup that's fully managed. All right.

setup that's fully managed. All right. setup that's fully managed. All right. Like, okay, you've addressed all of the Like, okay, you've addressed all of the Like, okay, you've addressed all of the potential uh pain points that I would potential uh pain points that I would potential uh pain points that I would have. Tell me more. They just kind of have. Tell me more. They just kind of have. Tell me more. They just kind of hid that like it's throwaway line. Yeah. hid that like it's throwaway line. Yeah. hid that like it's throwaway line. Yeah. Anyway, it's uh those are some good Anyway, it's uh those are some good Anyway, it's uh those are some good comments. Let's take a look at the next comments. Let's take a look at the next comments. Let's take a look at the next one. Thank you for that, John. one. Thank you for that, John. one. Thank you for that, John. >> Yeah. Oh, here are the ones I put in. >> Yeah. Oh, here are the ones I put in. >> Yeah. Oh, here are the ones I put in. This one makes me laugh. I get this like This one makes me laugh. I get this like This one makes me laugh. I get this like six times a day, six times a day, six times a day, >> right? Only six. Uh, open to open to >> right? Only six. Uh, open to open to >> right? Only six. Uh, open to open to qualified meetings. It says, "Hey, qualified meetings. It says, "Hey, qualified meetings. It says, "Hey, Jonathan, if I could deliver 15 plus Jonathan, if I could deliver 15 plus Jonathan, if I could deliver 15 plus qualified meetings for you every month qualified meetings for you every month qualified meetings for you every month on a performance model, would you be on a performance model, would you be on a performance model, would you be open?" open?" open?" >> Best, Jacob. PS, we work with 30 plus >> Best, Jacob. PS, we work with 30 plus >> Best, Jacob. PS, we work with 30 plus marketing agencies booking 15 to 18 marketing agencies booking 15 to 18 marketing agencies booking 15 to 18 meetings a month per uh per month on meetings a month per uh per month on meetings a month per uh per month on average. We already have the correct average. We already have the correct average. We already have the correct infra scripts and leads to copy and infra scripts and leads to copy and infra scripts and leads to copy and paste into your biz. paste into your biz. paste into your biz. >> Why bother? They paid somebody to do >> Why bother? They paid somebody to do >> Why bother? They paid somebody to do that. that. that. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is tough. Well, first >> Yeah. Yeah. This is tough. Well, first >> Yeah. Yeah. This is tough. Well, first off, at least they signed it. That's a off, at least they signed it. That's a off, at least they signed it. That's a good start. good start. good start. >> Well, kind of. They Jacob. Where does >> Well, kind of. They Jacob. Where does >> Well, kind of. They Jacob. Where does Jacob work?

Jacob work? Jacob work? >> We don't know. >> We don't know. >> We don't know. >> At the magical video factory. That's >> At the magical video factory. That's >> At the magical video factory. That's >> That's the magic factory. Oh man, I've >> That's the magic factory. Oh man, I've >> That's the magic factory. Oh man, I've been looking for them. No, but like been looking for them. No, but like been looking for them. No, but like seriously here. So, first off, can we seriously here. So, first off, can we seriously here. So, first off, can we stop pretend not capitalizing things to stop pretend not capitalizing things to stop pretend not capitalizing things to make it look human? Like, can we just go make it look human? Like, can we just go make it look human? Like, can we just go ahead and let the whole world know that ahead and let the whole world know that ahead and let the whole world know that nobody is buying that? Can we stop just nobody is buying that? Can we stop just nobody is buying that? Can we stop just not spelling properly or capitalizing not spelling properly or capitalizing not spelling properly or capitalizing properly or using punctuation properly? properly or using punctuation properly? properly or using punctuation properly? Like, come on. That's that's not an Like, come on. That's that's not an Like, come on. That's that's not an indication of AI people. That's just indication of AI people. That's just indication of AI people. That's just grammar. So, it says open to qualified grammar. So, it says open to qualified grammar. So, it says open to qualified meetings. probably not a great start meetings. probably not a great start meetings. probably not a great start because of what you said, which is that because of what you said, which is that because of what you said, which is that you're going to get a minimum of five to you're going to get a minimum of five to you're going to get a minimum of five to 500 a day of these. Hey, Jonathan, if I 500 a day of these. Hey, Jonathan, if I 500 a day of these. Hey, Jonathan, if I could deliver, would you be open? Look, could deliver, would you be open? Look, could deliver, would you be open? Look, I appreciate that it's succinct. It's to I appreciate that it's succinct. It's to I appreciate that it's succinct. It's to the point. It says the kind of core the point. It says the kind of core the point. It says the kind of core thing right up front. thing right up front. thing right up front. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> Um, I agree they could do a lot of work >> Um, I agree they could do a lot of work >> Um, I agree they could do a lot of work here to build some trust that they here to build some trust that they here to build some trust that they didn't do, like the company name. Uh didn't do, like the company name. Uh didn't do, like the company name. Uh even if you're a solo practitioner, be even if you're a solo practitioner, be even if you're a solo practitioner, be like, "Look, I'm a single consultant. I like, "Look, I'm a single consultant. I like, "Look, I'm a single consultant. I work with clients directly. I don't have work with clients directly. I don't have work with clients directly. I don't have a big team. This is me out there hunting a big team. This is me out there hunting a big team. This is me out there hunting on your behalf." Like, on your behalf." Like, on your behalf." Like, >> give me something.

>> give me something. >> give me something. >> That would have been better. >> That would have been better. >> That would have been better. >> Better, [clears throat] right? >> Better, [clears throat] right? >> Better, [clears throat] right? >> A lot better. >> A lot better. >> A lot better. >> Give me a reason to look at this and >> Give me a reason to look at this and >> Give me a reason to look at this and think it's different from the other think it's different from the other think it's different from the other hundred or so that I've seen, you know, hundred or so that I've seen, you know, hundred or so that I've seen, you know, in any period of time. in any period of time. in any period of time. >> Works with 30 plus marketing agencies. >> Works with 30 plus marketing agencies. >> Works with 30 plus marketing agencies. So, here's the thing. Let me let me get So, here's the thing. Let me let me get So, here's the thing. Let me let me get your perspective on this. It starts off your perspective on this. It starts off your perspective on this. It starts off good good good >> is >> is >> is >> we work with agencies like you booking >> we work with agencies like you booking >> we work with agencies like you booking meetings regularly meetings regularly meetings regularly >> and then it's then to me I think it >> and then it's then to me I think it >> and then it's then to me I think it kills itself because it says we already kills itself because it says we already kills itself because it says we already have the correct infra scripts and leads have the correct infra scripts and leads have the correct infra scripts and leads to copy and paste into your biz now. to copy and paste into your biz now. to copy and paste into your biz now. >> No thanks. >> No thanks. >> No thanks. >> Okay. Right. Like, [laughter] >> Okay. Right. Like, [laughter] >> Okay. Right. Like, [laughter] [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> You're telling me that the value you're >> You're telling me that the value you're >> You're telling me that the value you're going to provide me is that you've going to provide me is that you've going to provide me is that you've already done all the work that you're already done all the work that you're already done all the work that you're just going to copy and paste into my just going to copy and paste into my just going to copy and paste into my business. Like, that's your pitch. business. Like, that's your pitch. business. Like, that's your pitch. >> Yeah, that's their pitch. >> Yeah, that's their pitch. >> Yeah, that's their pitch. >> Would you ever have one of Would you >> Would you ever have one of Would you >> Would you ever have one of Would you ever say that to anybody? ever say that to anybody? ever say that to anybody? >> You know, when I see these emails, I I >> You know, when I see these emails, I I >> You know, when I see these emails, I I so often want to just hit respond and so often want to just hit respond and so often want to just hit respond and just say, "Why?

just say, "Why? just say, "Why? why and I know that it wouldn't help. It why and I know that it wouldn't help. It why and I know that it wouldn't help. It doesn't matter who would bother but you doesn't matter who would bother but you doesn't matter who would bother but you know it's just it's funny that email is know it's just it's funny that email is know it's just it's funny that email is used in this manner and um and it's you used in this manner and um and it's you used in this manner and um and it's you know the the it's the problem for all of know the the it's the problem for all of know the the it's the problem for all of us who like to use email for real um us who like to use email for real um us who like to use email for real um >> right >> right >> right >> you know to cut through this noise and >> you know to cut through this noise and >> you know to cut through this noise and to actually try to connect with people to actually try to connect with people to actually try to connect with people who would benefit from our connection who would benefit from our connection who would benefit from our connection >> right look we are all responsible for >> right look we are all responsible for >> right look we are all responsible for finding good ideas for our businesses finding good ideas for our businesses finding good ideas for our businesses >> that's right we need the information >> that's right we need the information >> that's right we need the information that you might have, but if you're not that you might have, but if you're not that you might have, but if you're not able to articulate it enough in an email able to articulate it enough in an email able to articulate it enough in an email for me to at least know whether it's for me to at least know whether it's for me to at least know whether it's worth my time and what how do I know worth my time and what how do I know worth my time and what how do I know it's a qualified meeting? How do I know it's a qualified meeting? How do I know it's a qualified meeting? How do I know that this is 15 plus? What's qualified? that this is 15 plus? What's qualified? that this is 15 plus? What's qualified? Because you say you copy and paste. How Because you say you copy and paste. How Because you say you copy and paste. How do I know that this is going to have any do I know that this is going to have any do I know that this is going to have any like Yeah, there's just I get the idea. like Yeah, there's just I get the idea. like Yeah, there's just I get the idea. They're trying to make it turnkey, They're trying to make it turnkey, They're trying to make it turnkey, right? I'll give them the benefit of the right? I'll give them the benefit of the right? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that that's what they're trying to doubt that that's what they're trying to doubt that that's what they're trying to communicate is, hey, I'm going to make communicate is, hey, I'm going to make communicate is, hey, I'm going to make this dead simple for you. I'm going to this dead simple for you. I'm going to this dead simple for you. I'm going to bend over backwards so you don't feel bend over backwards so you don't feel bend over backwards so you don't feel like maybe you're not prepared. Don't like maybe you're not prepared. Don't like maybe you're not prepared. Don't worry, we have systems in place to help worry, we have systems in place to help worry, we have systems in place to help draw the right information out. There's draw the right information out. There's draw the right information out. There's so many different ways you could say it so many different ways you could say it so many different ways you could say it that make it at least sound like you're that make it at least sound like you're that make it at least sound like you're making an effort, not the opposite, making an effort, not the opposite, making an effort, not the opposite, right?

right? right? >> That's exactly what I meant in the first >> That's exactly what I meant in the first >> That's exactly what I meant in the first one. one. one. >> The effort matter the effort matters. >> The effort matter the effort matters. >> The effort matter the effort matters. >> The effort matters. Yeah. This is a >> The effort matters. Yeah. This is a >> The effort matters. Yeah. This is a terrible one, James. Maybe we just from terrible one, James. Maybe we just from terrible one, James. Maybe we just from now on we need to just say that you now on we need to just say that you now on we need to just say that you can't use I'm going to give you 15 plus can't use I'm going to give you 15 plus can't use I'm going to give you 15 plus meetings uh as an email for this meetings uh as an email for this meetings uh as an email for this anymore. anymore. anymore. >> Just copy paste this one. >> Just copy paste this one. >> Just copy paste this one. >> Yeah, exactly. All right, so let's read >> Yeah, exactly. All right, so let's read >> Yeah, exactly. All right, so let's read the next email here. The subject line is the next email here. The subject line is the next email here. The subject line is a system to scale ads. a system to scale ads. a system to scale ads. >> Hi Jonathan or hey Jonathan, >> Hi Jonathan or hey Jonathan, >> Hi Jonathan or hey Jonathan, >> not sure if my last email was seen. Just >> not sure if my last email was seen. Just >> not sure if my last email was seen. Just curious, do you have a system that gets curious, do you have a system that gets curious, do you have a system that gets you more brands scaling ads every month you more brands scaling ads every month you more brands scaling ads every month or are you mainly relying on word of or are you mainly relying on word of or are you mainly relying on word of mouth, referrals, and posting on social mouth, referrals, and posting on social mouth, referrals, and posting on social media? It's something we see a lot with media? It's something we see a lot with media? It's something we see a lot with services businesses, service businesses, services businesses, service businesses, services businesses, service businesses, busy months followed by quiet months, busy months followed by quiet months, busy months followed by quiet months, and it's exactly what we help with. and it's exactly what we help with. and it's exactly what we help with. Would this interest you or have we Would this interest you or have we Would this interest you or have we missed the mark, Angela? PS, if you missed the mark, Angela? PS, if you missed the mark, Angela? PS, if you don't want us to contact you, you can don't want us to contact you, you can don't want us to contact you, you can just Okay, wait. Just curious. Do you just Okay, wait. Just curious. Do you just Okay, wait. Just curious. Do you have a system that gets you more brands have a system that gets you more brands have a system that gets you more brands scaling ads every month? Oh, I think scaling ads every month? Oh, I think scaling ads every month? Oh, I think what it's doing is I think this is on what it's doing is I think this is on what it's doing is I think this is on your website where you talk about how your website where you talk about how your website where you talk about how you help brands scale. Yeah. Okay. So, you help brands scale. Yeah. Okay. So, you help brands scale. Yeah. Okay. So, they just they just they just >> This is an AI scrape of our website.

>> This is an AI scrape of our website. >> This is an AI scrape of our website. >> Yes. Okay. Oh, okay. A system to scale >> Yes. Okay. Oh, okay. A system to scale >> Yes. Okay. Oh, okay. A system to scale ads. I feel like every one of these ads. I feel like every one of these ads. I feel like every one of these starts with the same. So, first off, starts with the same. So, first off, starts with the same. So, first off, what did you think of this one? what did you think of this one? what did you think of this one? >> Slightly better. >> Slightly better. >> Slightly better. >> Okay. slightly better. They have some >> Okay. slightly better. They have some >> Okay. slightly better. They have some understanding, even though I don't understanding, even though I don't understanding, even though I don't believe it's a real human, of what we believe it's a real human, of what we believe it's a real human, of what we do. So, that's an advantage. But at the do. So, that's an advantage. But at the do. So, that's an advantage. But at the same time, we're not a service business. same time, we're not a service business. same time, we're not a service business. So, that's very far off. And again, very So, that's very far off. And again, very So, that's very far off. And again, very generic. Very, very generic. I mean, generic. Very, very generic. I mean, generic. Very, very generic. I mean, that seems to be the over that seems to that seems to be the over that seems to that seems to be the over that seems to be the common thread with mostly bad be the common thread with mostly bad be the common thread with mostly bad emails is just being so generic. emails is just being so generic. emails is just being so generic. >> Yeah. I mean, look, that's the thing, >> Yeah. I mean, look, that's the thing, >> Yeah. I mean, look, that's the thing, right? you as you this this to me is a right? you as you this this to me is a right? you as you this this to me is a telltale sign of scale before message. telltale sign of scale before message. telltale sign of scale before message. If the message you read smacks of being If the message you read smacks of being If the message you read smacks of being overly generic, it's because they're overly generic, it's because they're overly generic, it's because they're playing a numbers game and they're just playing a numbers game and they're just playing a numbers game and they're just sending out a jillion of these emails. sending out a jillion of these emails. sending out a jillion of these emails. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so Yeah. And so to your point like >> And so Yeah. And so to your point like >> And so Yeah. And so to your point like the and this, you know, this is what the and this, you know, this is what the and this, you know, this is what there's kind of two things that need to there's kind of two things that need to there's kind of two things that need to make sense. Relevance. So the message make sense. Relevance. So the message make sense. Relevance. So the message they're sending you has to be relevant they're sending you has to be relevant they're sending you has to be relevant to you in some capacity. and then to you in some capacity. and then to you in some capacity. and then personalized. And what personalization personalized. And what personalization personalized. And what personalization means, I think, has just gotten somehow means, I think, has just gotten somehow means, I think, has just gotten somehow lost in the ether, but it's supposed to lost in the ether, but it's supposed to lost in the ether, but it's supposed to mean that you put in something into this mean that you put in something into this mean that you put in something into this message, into the into the copy that is message, into the into the copy that is message, into the into the copy that is going to be specific to this individual, going to be specific to this individual, going to be specific to this individual, right? Um, and right? Um, and right? Um, and yeah, like just stealing some words from yeah, like just stealing some words from yeah, like just stealing some words from somebody's website doesn't do that. Uh,

somebody's website doesn't do that. Uh, somebody's website doesn't do that. Uh, you got to follow that up with something you got to follow that up with something you got to follow that up with something a little bit more. And if you are a little bit more. And if you are a little bit more. And if you are selling services businesses and you are selling services businesses and you are selling services businesses and you are talking about scaling ads, they're talking about scaling ads, they're talking about scaling ads, they're probably worth enough to put that kind probably worth enough to put that kind probably worth enough to put that kind of energy in. I get it if you're talking of energy in. I get it if you're talking of energy in. I get it if you're talking about super high velocity, lowcost small about super high velocity, lowcost small about super high velocity, lowcost small software applications. Like I get it. software applications. Like I get it. software applications. Like I get it. You've got to worry about cost. I'm not You've got to worry about cost. I'm not You've got to worry about cost. I'm not I'm not that's not lost on me. But you I'm not that's not lost on me. But you I'm not that's not lost on me. But you if you sacrifice if you sacrifice if you sacrifice good good good for more, I think you end up losing. for more, I think you end up losing. for more, I think you end up losing. like it just you've you've sacrificed like it just you've you've sacrificed like it just you've you've sacrificed any value for any value for any value for mass. And I think they'll argue all day, mass. And I think they'll argue all day, mass. And I think they'll argue all day, yeah, but if it only converts at half yeah, but if it only converts at half yeah, but if it only converts at half this good and blah blah blah, and it's this good and blah blah blah, and it's this good and blah blah blah, and it's like it's still 15 meetings a month. like it's still 15 meetings a month. like it's still 15 meetings a month. It's like, are they going to be It's like, are they going to be It's like, are they going to be meaningful? Are they going to show up? meaningful? Are they going to show up? meaningful? Are they going to show up? Are they going to be good? Do they Are they going to be good? Do they Are they going to be good? Do they really care? Like, you can't believe if really care? Like, you can't believe if really care? Like, you can't believe if they've responded to that email that they've responded to that email that they've responded to that email that they're actually probably going to be a they're actually probably going to be a they're actually probably going to be a good client. It just doesn't I don't good client. It just doesn't I don't good client. It just doesn't I don't know. It doesn't seem like that's know. It doesn't seem like that's know. It doesn't seem like that's possible to me. possible to me. possible to me. >> Listen, I'm on social media every day. I >> Listen, I'm on social media every day. I >> Listen, I'm on social media every day. I post on social media every day. It's post on social media every day. It's post on social media every day. It's super duper easy to write me an email super duper easy to write me an email super duper easy to write me an email that pertains to that. It's really a low that pertains to that. It's really a low that pertains to that. It's really a low lift. And when you're talking B2B, and lift. And when you're talking B2B, and lift. And when you're talking B2B, and that's what we're talking about here, that's what we're talking about here, that's what we're talking about here, right?

right? right? >> Each transaction each it's it's it's >> Each transaction each it's it's it's >> Each transaction each it's it's it's pretty high value. It's worth it. It's pretty high value. It's worth it. It's pretty high value. It's worth it. It's worth the time if you're going to really worth the time if you're going to really worth the time if you're going to really be interested in working with, you know, be interested in working with, you know, be interested in working with, you know, how many conversions do you need? How how many conversions do you need? How how many conversions do you need? How many sales calls do you really need if many sales calls do you really need if many sales calls do you really need if you can get good ones? If you can get you can get good ones? If you can get you can get good ones? If you can get the right ones and that ain't going to the right ones and that ain't going to the right ones and that ain't going to do it what we're looking at right here. do it what we're looking at right here. do it what we're looking at right here. You know, that's first thing I think You know, that's first thing I think You know, that's first thing I think about is like you have no idea where I about is like you have no idea where I about is like you have no idea where I am in this moment or what I'm working am in this moment or what I'm working am in this moment or what I'm working on. And it would have been really easy on. And it would have been really easy on. And it would have been really easy to find out. to find out. to find out. >> And my last little nitpick on this if >> And my last little nitpick on this if >> And my last little nitpick on this if you can't put what company you work for, you can't put what company you work for, you can't put what company you work for, >> why do I think you know how to deal with >> why do I think you know how to deal with >> why do I think you know how to deal with brands? [laughter] Like, brands? [laughter] Like, brands? [laughter] Like, >> why do I think you're a real human >> why do I think you're a real human >> why do I think you're a real human being? I mean, this person put they put being? I mean, this person put they put being? I mean, this person put they put their last name, which, you know, maybe their last name, which, you know, maybe their last name, which, you know, maybe is a real person, maybe isn't, but is a real person, maybe isn't, but is a real person, maybe isn't, but >> right, >> right, >> right, >> you know, >> you know, >> you know, >> maybe we'll see. So, Jonathan, this is >> maybe we'll see. So, Jonathan, this is >> maybe we'll see. So, Jonathan, this is your uh this is your email, a real cold your uh this is your email, a real cold your uh this is your email, a real cold email that you use. email that you use. email that you use. >> Yeah. Yeah. I wrote this I wrote this to >> Yeah. Yeah. I wrote this I wrote this to >> Yeah. Yeah. I wrote this I wrote this to a larger list for me, probably a list of a larger list for me, probably a list of a larger list for me, probably a list of maybe 300 people. I don't do this maybe 300 people. I don't do this maybe 300 people. I don't do this commonly, but I did this for this commonly, but I did this for this commonly, but I did this for this moment.

moment. moment. >> Okay, let me let me let me read it then >> Okay, let me let me let me read it then >> Okay, let me let me let me read it then with my best ASMR voice. subject. Is with my best ASMR voice. subject. Is with my best ASMR voice. subject. Is there a new way to make ads? That's there a new way to make ads? That's there a new way to make ads? That's provocative. I would have probably done provocative. I would have probably done provocative. I would have probably done a double take on the subject. a double take on the subject. a double take on the subject. >> Hey, James, there is a lot of talk about >> Hey, James, there is a lot of talk about >> Hey, James, there is a lot of talk about new ways to make ads, but every brand we new ways to make ads, but every brand we new ways to make ads, but every brand we work with ends up coming back to the work with ends up coming back to the work with ends up coming back to the same thing. Real connection. A real same thing. Real connection. A real same thing. Real connection. A real person talking in an honest way still person talking in an honest way still person talking in an honest way still outperforms almost everything else. It outperforms almost everything else. It outperforms almost everything else. It is what audiences trust and respond to, is what audiences trust and respond to, is what audiences trust and respond to, and it is what keeps brands from and it is what keeps brands from and it is what keeps brands from drifting into the generic. That's the drifting into the generic. That's the drifting into the generic. That's the approach we take at Brighter. Real approach we take at Brighter. Real approach we take at Brighter. Real cameras, real people, produced quickly cameras, real people, produced quickly cameras, real people, produced quickly and built to perform. and built to perform. and built to perform. Happy to talk. Just reach out. Okay. Happy to talk. Just reach out. Okay. Happy to talk. Just reach out. Okay. >> No last name. >> No last name. >> No last name. >> No last name. >> No last name. >> No last name. >> No signature. >> No signature. >> No signature. >> No company. >> No company. >> No company. >> No company. >> No company. >> No company. >> Although >> Although >> Although >> you if you hit the three dots, you'll >> you if you hit the three dots, you'll >> you if you hit the three dots, you'll get it. get it. get it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, let's let's let >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, let's let's let >> Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, let's let's let me let me give some feedback. So, first, me let me give some feedback. So, first, me let me give some feedback. So, first, um is there a new way to make ads? I um is there a new way to make ads? I um is there a new way to make ads? I like this because if you're in marketing like this because if you're in marketing like this because if you're in marketing or sales at some point you're probably or sales at some point you're probably or sales at some point you're probably asking yourself something like this and asking yourself something like this and asking yourself something like this and if you're on any media format you're if you're on any media format you're if you're on any media format you're asking yourself about ads or video asking yourself about ads or video asking yourself about ads or video today. So that's good. I'm curious there today. So that's good. I'm curious there today. So that's good. I'm curious there it says there's a lot of talk about new it says there's a lot of talk about new it says there's a lot of talk about new ways to make ads. Where do you find that ways to make ads. Where do you find that ways to make ads. Where do you find that kind of talk usually? Is it LinkedIn? Do kind of talk usually? Is it LinkedIn? Do kind of talk usually? Is it LinkedIn? Do you see it on LinkedIn quite a bit? Are you see it on LinkedIn quite a bit? Are you see it on LinkedIn quite a bit? Are there blog posts? Does ad week talk there blog posts? Does ad week talk there blog posts? Does ad week talk about it? Like where do you see that?

about it? Like where do you see that? about it? Like where do you see that? Yeah. Yeah. My my customers are being Yeah. Yeah. My my customers are being Yeah. Yeah. My my customers are being bombarded with um the idea of making ads bombarded with um the idea of making ads bombarded with um the idea of making ads with AI. with AI. with AI. >> Ah, yes. But you don't say AI, I think, >> Ah, yes. But you don't say AI, I think, >> Ah, yes. But you don't say AI, I think, anywhere in here. anywhere in here. anywhere in here. >> Nor would I. Why would I plant that? >> Nor would I. Why would I plant that? >> Nor would I. Why would I plant that? It's like doing a Pepsi ad and putting It's like doing a Pepsi ad and putting It's like doing a Pepsi ad and putting Coke in the language. Coke in the language. Coke in the language. >> Um, a real person talking in an honest >> Um, a real person talking in an honest >> Um, a real person talking in an honest way. So, this is um [clears throat] way. So, this is um [clears throat] way. So, this is um [clears throat] I like this because I feel like it's a I like this because I feel like it's a I like this because I feel like it's a bit what we all suspect anyway, which is bit what we all suspect anyway, which is bit what we all suspect anyway, which is like everybody keeps doing these the like everybody keeps doing these the like everybody keeps doing these the personal conversational personal conversational personal conversational um testimonial style commercials gener um testimonial style commercials gener um testimonial style commercials gener uh ads generally or content generally uh ads generally or content generally uh ads generally or content generally because they seem to outperform. So, because they seem to outperform. So, because they seem to outperform. So, confirming that I actually like that confirming that I actually like that confirming that I actually like that value um that that helps. That's the value um that that helps. That's the value um that that helps. That's the approach we take it brighter. So, your approach we take it brighter. So, your approach we take it brighter. So, your brand is in there. Uh, real cameras, brand is in there. Uh, real cameras, brand is in there. Uh, real cameras, real people produce quickly and built to real people produce quickly and built to real people produce quickly and built to perform. I think the only thing I would perform. I think the only thing I would perform. I think the only thing I would really change here, really change here, really change here, I might have added an exclamation point I might have added an exclamation point I might have added an exclamation point to the subject in addition to the to the subject in addition to the to the subject in addition to the question mark.

question mark. question mark. >> Oh, cool. >> Oh, cool. >> Oh, cool. >> Because I would have wanted it to just >> Because I would have wanted it to just >> Because I would have wanted it to just be slightly more provocative. be slightly more provocative. be slightly more provocative. >> And it's just a subject line, so it can >> And it's just a subject line, so it can >> And it's just a subject line, so it can only do you can only do so many things only do you can only do so many things only do you can only do so many things before it's distracting. And I think before it's distracting. And I think before it's distracting. And I think that changes the tone of the subject that changes the tone of the subject that changes the tone of the subject line just just a touch where it's kind line just just a touch where it's kind line just just a touch where it's kind of both excited, concerned, you know, of both excited, concerned, you know, of both excited, concerned, you know, like it adds a little something to it. like it adds a little something to it. like it adds a little something to it. The other thing is I probably would The other thing is I probably would The other thing is I probably would would love either a request, a call to would love either a request, a call to would love either a request, a call to action, action, action, something where what you're actually something where what you're actually something where what you're actually offering is offering is offering is I'm not asking anything of you, I'm not asking anything of you, I'm not asking anything of you, >> right? But I'd be happy to send you if >> right? But I'd be happy to send you if >> right? But I'd be happy to send you if like if you're worried about this, if like if you're worried about this, if like if you're worried about this, if this is something you're thinking about, this is something you're thinking about, this is something you're thinking about, I I've I've got a video reel you could I I've I've got a video reel you could I I've I've got a video reel you could look at or I have a course. I do a five look at or I have a course. I do a five look at or I have a course. I do a five minute talk from a podcast a while back minute talk from a podcast a while back minute talk from a podcast a while back that might be relevant. It might help that might be relevant. It might help that might be relevant. It might help you with this. Um, and I talk about what you with this. Um, and I talk about what you with this. Um, and I talk about what performs and what doesn't and how to performs and what doesn't and how to performs and what doesn't and how to make that work for your brand, right? make that work for your brand, right? make that work for your brand, right? Like something direct like that where Like something direct like that where Like something direct like that where you're saying, "Here's a piece of value.

you're saying, "Here's a piece of value. you're saying, "Here's a piece of value. I'm happy to offer it." you explain what I'm happy to offer it." you explain what I'm happy to offer it." you explain what the value is so they don't just think the value is so they don't just think the value is so they don't just think it's a it's a it's a >> quiz or some some jank. >> quiz or some some jank. >> quiz or some some jank. >> It could just Yeah. Yeah. Can I send you >> It could just Yeah. Yeah. Can I send you >> It could just Yeah. Yeah. Can I send you an example what I'm talking about? an example what I'm talking about? an example what I'm talking about? >> That's a good opt-in. It keeps you from >> That's a good opt-in. It keeps you from >> That's a good opt-in. It keeps you from putting a link in the email. putting a link in the email. putting a link in the email. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um which is going to help >> Um which is going to help >> Um which is going to help deliverability. I think deliverability. I think deliverability. I think >> this is the thing. I think you're a >> this is the thing. I think you're a >> this is the thing. I think you're a really good example where the brand really good example where the brand really good example where the brand should be more present should be more present should be more present >> and it's like dangerously close to a PS >> and it's like dangerously close to a PS >> and it's like dangerously close to a PS of your background and the brands that of your background and the brands that of your background and the brands that you've worked with. Now, here's why I you've worked with. Now, here's why I you've worked with. Now, here's why I say dangerously close. as a buyer, as a say dangerously close. as a buyer, as a say dangerously close. as a buyer, as a business decision maker around marketing business decision maker around marketing business decision maker around marketing or anything else, the second you slap or anything else, the second you slap or anything else, the second you slap MTV, Nike, and brands like that on MTV, Nike, and brands like that on MTV, Nike, and brands like that on there, I'm immediately going to say, there, I'm immediately going to say, there, I'm immediately going to say, "Oo, too expensive. I'm going to move "Oo, too expensive. I'm going to move "Oo, too expensive. I'm going to move on." on." on." >> I agree. >> I agree. >> I agree. >> And so, the problem with your >> And so, the problem with your >> And so, the problem with your testimonials or your your um the value testimonials or your your um the value testimonials or your your um the value of those logos for you is both kind of of those logos for you is both kind of of those logos for you is both kind of good and bad potentially. So, I don't good and bad potentially. So, I don't good and bad potentially. So, I don't know, that's tricky. But I want to find know, that's tricky. But I want to find know, that's tricky. But I want to find some way to pull some additional some way to pull some additional some way to pull some additional credibility and trust mechanism into credibility and trust mechanism into credibility and trust mechanism into this email. That's the thing I think I this email. That's the thing I think I this email. That's the thing I think I would like to see it in addition to the would like to see it in addition to the would like to see it in addition to the other comments.

other comments. other comments. >> Love that. Love that. And we do do that. >> Love that. Love that. And we do do that. >> Love that. Love that. And we do do that. I have done that in other emails. I do I have done that in other emails. I do I have done that in other emails. I do not site Nike, Budweiser. I I do in it not site Nike, Budweiser. I I do in it not site Nike, Budweiser. I I do in it Joybird and I just make the brands Joybird and I just make the brands Joybird and I just make the brands appropriate. appropriate. appropriate. >> Yeah, that's great. I think that that >> Yeah, that's great. I think that that >> Yeah, that's great. I think that that fixes that. and and and if you really fixes that. and and and if you really fixes that. and and and if you really push it, I think you could try to push it, I think you could try to push it, I think you could try to incorporate some like we help brands incorporate some like we help brands incorporate some like we help brands that are transitioning into doing ads that are transitioning into doing ads that are transitioning into doing ads and and video and maybe just aren't and and video and maybe just aren't and and video and maybe just aren't ready for big agencies. Something to ready for big agencies. Something to ready for big agencies. Something to that effect. Cuz when you said that to that effect. Cuz when you said that to that effect. Cuz when you said that to me on this call or on in this me on this call or on in this me on this call or on in this discussion, I was like, "Ooh, that's discussion, I was like, "Ooh, that's discussion, I was like, "Ooh, that's really good because that really does really good because that really does really good because that really does mean to me that you understand both the mean to me that you understand both the mean to me that you understand both the the sort of high production value world, the sort of high production value world, the sort of high production value world, but you understand that not everybody is but you understand that not everybody is but you understand that not everybody is there yet." I like that. That's um there yet." I like that. That's um there yet." I like that. That's um >> it's a big jump. And that's a big jump. >> it's a big jump. And that's a big jump. >> it's a big jump. And that's a big jump. I bet you you deal with that at Hunt. I bet you you deal with that at Hunt. I bet you you deal with that at Hunt. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like you >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like you >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like you know, and honestly, not just as a know, and honestly, not just as a know, and honestly, not just as a company people come to and are are company people come to and are are company people come to and are are evaluating whether they're ready for evaluating whether they're ready for evaluating whether they're ready for this, but also as a company who's trying this, but also as a company who's trying this, but also as a company who's trying to figure out the best ways to market to figure out the best ways to market to figure out the best ways to market themselves themselves themselves with a broad audience. Um yeah, I'm with a broad audience. Um yeah, I'm with a broad audience. Um yeah, I'm constantly thinking about this. So yeah, constantly thinking about this. So yeah, constantly thinking about this. So yeah, I think like there's a lot of meat here.

I think like there's a lot of meat here. I think like there's a lot of meat here. I would add a couple of other pieces of I would add a couple of other pieces of I would add a couple of other pieces of like really meaty, you know, bits, but like really meaty, you know, bits, but like really meaty, you know, bits, but no, I think otherwise this is this is a no, I think otherwise this is this is a no, I think otherwise this is this is a good cold email. good cold email. good cold email. >> Thank you, Matt. I'm very grateful. >> Thank you, Matt. I'm very grateful. >> Thank you, Matt. I'm very grateful. >> My pleasure. >> My pleasure. >> My pleasure. >> Really appreciate it. >> Really appreciate it. >> Really appreciate it. >> It's not easy doing that stuff. >> It's not easy doing that stuff. >> It's not easy doing that stuff. >> That's why that's why we're talking >> That's why that's why we're talking >> That's why that's why we're talking about it. It's about it. It's about it. It's >> People struggle. >> People struggle. >> People struggle. >> It's hard. I like I So, I've done it >> It's hard. I like I So, I've done it >> It's hard. I like I So, I've done it >> personally. I've done it for a brand. >> personally. I've done it for a brand. >> personally. I've done it for a brand. I've done it to build a business. I've I've done it to build a business. I've I've done it to build a business. I've been a founder. So, like some of my been a founder. So, like some of my been a founder. So, like some of my first customers came from outreach. I first customers came from outreach. I first customers came from outreach. I know the value of it. I know how hard it know the value of it. I know how hard it know the value of it. I know how hard it is. I can't tell you how many times I've is. I can't tell you how many times I've is. I can't tell you how many times I've sat down to write an email and I've just sat down to write an email and I've just sat down to write an email and I've just choked on the first sentence being like, choked on the first sentence being like, choked on the first sentence being like, I hope this finds you well. Right? Like I hope this finds you well. Right? Like I hope this finds you well. Right? Like I've never will write that. I will never I've never will write that. I will never I've never will write that. I will never allow that to be sent on my behalf. But allow that to be sent on my behalf. But allow that to be sent on my behalf. But God help me as soon as I sit down to a God help me as soon as I sit down to a God help me as soon as I sit down to a blank piece of paper. It's like the blank piece of paper. It's like the blank piece of paper. It's like the first thing that goes through my head. first thing that goes through my head. first thing that goes through my head. So, it's uh yeah, it's tricky. It's not So, it's uh yeah, it's tricky. It's not So, it's uh yeah, it's tricky. It's not as easy as we try to make it sound like as easy as we try to make it sound like as easy as we try to make it sound like it. It's not how it. It's not how it. It's not how >> you know. I love that this I I never >> you know. I love that this I I never >> you know. I love that this I I never forget one of my cousins who works in forget one of my cousins who works in forget one of my cousins who works in Wall Street. Wonderful guy. I'm so very Wall Street. Wonderful guy. I'm so very Wall Street. Wonderful guy. I'm so very close to him. We grew up very close. And close to him. We grew up very close. And close to him. We grew up very close. And um he really rose high on on the on the um he really rose high on on the on the um he really rose high on on the on the ladder in Wall Street and done very ladder in Wall Street and done very ladder in Wall Street and done very well. But as he rose, he found himself well. But as he rose, he found himself well. But as he rose, he found himself flying to small towns in the Midwest flying to small towns in the Midwest flying to small towns in the Midwest talking to uh um investing groups, you talking to uh um investing groups, you talking to uh um investing groups, you know, mainly teachers unions and stuff.

know, mainly teachers unions and stuff. know, mainly teachers unions and stuff. And it occurred to me I remember forget And it occurred to me I remember forget And it occurred to me I remember forget talking to him one time when he was in I talking to him one time when he was in I talking to him one time when he was in I don't know Wisconsin or something don't know Wisconsin or something don't know Wisconsin or something talking to some union teachers union and talking to some union teachers union and talking to some union teachers union and I and I was like you know it's funny as I and I was like you know it's funny as I and I was like you know it's funny as you rise and you become a founder or you you rise and you become a founder or you you rise and you become a founder or you become a leader you end up right where become a leader you end up right where become a leader you end up right where you started selling and it brings me to you started selling and it brings me to you started selling and it brings me to what you said about do you consider what you said about do you consider what you said about do you consider yourself a salesperson well the higher yourself a salesperson well the higher yourself a salesperson well the higher you rise typically in the structure of a you rise typically in the structure of a you rise typically in the structure of a business the closer you get back to business the closer you get back to business the closer you get back to that. that. that. >> It is funny isn't it? Yeah. the more >> It is funny isn't it? Yeah. the more >> It is funny isn't it? Yeah. the more responsibility you get that somehow ends responsibility you get that somehow ends responsibility you get that somehow ends up being you're selling kind of all the up being you're selling kind of all the up being you're selling kind of all the time and those skills are important. I time and those skills are important. I time and those skills are important. I felt bad because I was like, "Dude, felt bad because I was like, "Dude, felt bad because I was like, "Dude, you've done well. You should be in the you've done well. You should be in the you've done well. You should be in the South of Fred sunning yourself." But you South of Fred sunning yourself." But you South of Fred sunning yourself." But you are not. are not. are not. >> Everybody thinks I think like once you >> Everybody thinks I think like once you >> Everybody thinks I think like once you get to be the boss of something that you get to be the boss of something that you get to be the boss of something that you no longer have to do some of the hard no longer have to do some of the hard no longer have to do some of the hard work. I'm like, "No, are you kidding? It work. I'm like, "No, are you kidding? It work. I'm like, "No, are you kidding? It actually increases. There is no rich guy actually increases. There is no rich guy actually increases. There is no rich guy golfing until you reach a very different golfing until you reach a very different golfing until you reach a very different level of the stratosphere." level of the stratosphere." level of the stratosphere." >> And typically the person who does that, >> And typically the person who does that, >> And typically the person who does that, they're enjoying it. That's why they're they're enjoying it. That's why they're they're enjoying it. That's why they're there in the first place. I mean, and there in the first place. I mean, and there in the first place. I mean, and it's fun. I love it personally.

it's fun. I love it personally. it's fun. I love it personally. It's the uh sisophysician. What is it? It's the uh sisophysician. What is it? It's the uh sisophysician. What is it? Sisophian challenge. Sifian challenge. I Sisophian challenge. Sifian challenge. I Sisophian challenge. Sifian challenge. I don't It's the challenge that keeps me don't It's the challenge that keeps me don't It's the challenge that keeps me getting up every morning for sure. Um getting up every morning for sure. Um getting up every morning for sure. Um this is great. Jonathan, um what's your this is great. Jonathan, um what's your this is great. Jonathan, um what's your favorite podcast right now? favorite podcast right now? favorite podcast right now? >> I am a music fanatic. So my favorite >> I am a music fanatic. So my favorite >> I am a music fanatic. So my favorite podcast is The History of Rock and Roll podcast is The History of Rock and Roll podcast is The History of Rock and Roll in 500 Souls. Love it. in 500 Souls. Love it. in 500 Souls. Love it. >> That's pretty good. >> That's pretty good. >> That's pretty good. >> That's pretty good. >> That's pretty good. >> That's pretty good. >> And then an old one called R uh uh Oh >> And then an old one called R uh uh Oh >> And then an old one called R uh uh Oh god, Rhinestones. Um, oh, it's a country god, Rhinestones. Um, oh, it's a country god, Rhinestones. Um, oh, it's a country music podcast. It's a cocaine and music podcast. It's a cocaine and music podcast. It's a cocaine and rhinestones. Uh, okay. Wonderful podcast rhinestones. Uh, okay. Wonderful podcast rhinestones. Uh, okay. Wonderful podcast about country music business. But about country music business. But about country music business. But >> there we go. >> there we go. >> there we go. >> Those are my favorites. >> Those are my favorites. >> Those are my favorites. >> I like that you mixed it up too. A non-b >> I like that you mixed it up too. A non-b >> I like that you mixed it up too. A non-b businessiness podcast. That's really businessiness podcast. That's really businessiness podcast. That's really nice. Um, nice. Um, nice. Um, >> I got with my friends podcast. >> I got with my friends podcast. >> I got with my friends podcast. >> Hacks on T. It's a political podcast >> Hacks on T. It's a political podcast >> Hacks on T. It's a political podcast that I absolutely adore. David Axelrod that I absolutely adore. David Axelrod that I absolutely adore. David Axelrod and Mike Murphy. Contrarians. Wonderful and Mike Murphy. Contrarians. Wonderful and Mike Murphy. Contrarians. Wonderful podcast where they disagree with each podcast where they disagree with each podcast where they disagree with each other. I love it. other. I love it. other. I love it. >> I love that. Not enough disagreement for >> I love that. Not enough disagreement for >> I love that. Not enough disagreement for fun these days. Uh it seems that's fun these days. Uh it seems that's fun these days. Uh it seems that's great. Um listen, uh where should people great. Um listen, uh where should people great. Um listen, uh where should people find you? Like you want like you've got find you? Like you want like you've got find you? Like you want like you've got you've got so many projects going on.

you've got so many projects going on. you've got so many projects going on. Tell people where they can find your Tell people where they can find your Tell people where they can find your work. work. work. >> I have two projects as a production >> I have two projects as a production >> I have two projects as a production company uh doing DTOC work. We're at a company uh doing DTOC work. We're at a company uh doing DTOC work. We're at a brighter company.com. And uh for brighter company.com. And uh for brighter company.com. And uh for coaching and to uh work with me coaching and to uh work with me coaching and to uh work with me one-on-one to help develop your creative one-on-one to help develop your creative one-on-one to help develop your creative [music] business, you can find me at [music] business, you can find me at [music] business, you can find me at directorscut.studio. directorscut.studio. directorscut.studio. directors cut.studio. Awesome. Jonathan, directors cut.studio. Awesome. Jonathan, directors cut.studio. Awesome. Jonathan, this is great. Thanks so [music] much this is great. Thanks so [music] much this is great. Thanks so [music] much for being here today. for being here today. for being here today. >> Thank you, Matt. I'm very grateful. This >> Thank you, Matt. I'm very grateful. This >> Thank you, Matt. I'm very grateful. This was a lot of fun. was a lot of fun. was a lot of fun. >> Same. >> Same. >> Same. >> If you like what you heard, [music] >> If you like what you heard, [music] >> If you like what you heard, [music] please like, subscribe, and explore even please like, subscribe, and explore even please like, subscribe, and explore even more of the Outfox community by visiting more of the Outfox community by visiting more of the Outfox community by visiting www.outflogs.hunter.io.