Outfoxed podcast by Hunter.io | Ep 15 Amber Gaige "You don't know what you don't know in marketing"

This is Outfoxed, the podcast brought to This is Outfoxed, the podcast brought to you by hunter.io, the trusted B2B lead you by hunter.io, the trusted B2B lead you by hunter.io, the trusted B2B lead generation platform built for every generation platform built for every generation platform built for every professional. professional. professional. No ready-made playbooks, no posturing, No ready-made playbooks, no posturing, No ready-made playbooks, no posturing, and no egos. This is the show for the and no egos. This is the show for the and no egos. This is the show for the builders and not the theorists. Let's builders and not the theorists. Let's builders and not the theorists. Let's get into it. get into it. get into it. >> All right, here we are. Another episode >> All right, here we are. Another episode >> All right, here we are. Another episode where we hope to bring you value and where we hope to bring you value and where we hope to bring you value and [music] [music] [music] new ideas. And with us today is Amber new ideas. And with us today is Amber new ideas. And with us today is Amber Gage from Far Beyond Marketing. Amber, Gage from Far Beyond Marketing. Amber, Gage from Far Beyond Marketing. Amber, welcome. It's great to see you again. welcome. It's great to see you again. welcome. It's great to see you again. >> Hey Matt, it's so fun to be back with >> Hey Matt, it's so fun to be back with >> Hey Matt, it's so fun to be back with you. How you doing today? you. How you doing today? you. How you doing today? >> I love it. Thanks for bringing the >> I love it. Thanks for bringing the >> I love it. Thanks for bringing the energy. Um energy. Um energy. Um well, I obviously have spent lots of well, I obviously have spent lots of well, I obviously have spent lots of time chatting with you and enjoyed every time chatting with you and enjoyed every time chatting with you and enjoyed every minute, but why don't you introduce minute, but why don't you introduce minute, but why don't you introduce yourself to our audience? yourself to our audience? yourself to our audience? >> Sure. So, I'm a 5-ft nothing red-headed >> Sure. So, I'm a 5-ft nothing red-headed >> Sure. So, I'm a 5-ft nothing red-headed Texas girl, Texas girl, Texas girl, um founder of Far Beyond Marketing firm um founder of Far Beyond Marketing firm um founder of Far Beyond Marketing firm out of Dallas, and uh mother of one very out of Dallas, and uh mother of one very out of Dallas, and uh mother of one very rowdy Taekwondo-loving little boy. rowdy Taekwondo-loving little boy. rowdy Taekwondo-loving little boy. Um my team of 14 and I serve Um my team of 14 and I serve Um my team of 14 and I serve entrepreneurs all around the US um by entrepreneurs all around the US um by entrepreneurs all around the US um by not giving them marketing that is crap.

not giving them marketing that is crap. not giving them marketing that is crap. We serve them by making sure that they We serve them by making sure that they We serve them by making sure that they have a strategy, clear messaging, and have a strategy, clear messaging, and have a strategy, clear messaging, and marketing systems that the that grow marketing systems that the that grow marketing systems that the that grow their business while they sleep. their business while they sleep. their business while they sleep. And uh I'm also an international And uh I'm also an international And uh I'm also an international best-selling author of the Far Beyond best-selling author of the Far Beyond best-selling author of the Far Beyond Marketing Guidebook: How to Stop Being Marketing Guidebook: How to Stop Being Marketing Guidebook: How to Stop Being Duped by Bad Marketing. Duped by Bad Marketing. Duped by Bad Marketing. >> I love it. How do you decide I'm not >> I love it. How do you decide I'm not >> I love it. How do you decide I'm not going to give crap marketing to people? going to give crap marketing to people? going to give crap marketing to people? Cuz it just seems Cuz it just seems Cuz it just seems >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Well, I'm a plumber's daughter, so you >> Well, I'm a plumber's daughter, so you >> Well, I'm a plumber's daughter, so you know, crap was a way of No, I'm just know, crap was a way of No, I'm just know, crap was a way of No, I'm just kidding. Um kidding. Um kidding. Um >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I'm a third-generation entrepreneur, >> I'm a third-generation entrepreneur, >> I'm a third-generation entrepreneur, Matt, and I firmly believe that people Matt, and I firmly believe that people Matt, and I firmly believe that people don't know what they don't know when it don't know what they don't know when it don't know what they don't know when it comes to marketing. And marketing is comes to marketing. And marketing is comes to marketing. And marketing is ever-changing. The beauty and the curse ever-changing. The beauty and the curse ever-changing. The beauty and the curse is that it is both creative and is that it is both creative and is that it is both creative and analytical. You have to have um the analytical. You have to have um the analytical. You have to have um the chiaroscuro, as the Italians say, the chiaroscuro, as the Italians say, the chiaroscuro, as the Italians say, the dark and the light. So, when we say dark and the light. So, when we say dark and the light. So, when we say we're not going to give them bad crap we're not going to give them bad crap we're not going to give them bad crap marketing, what we mean is we're going marketing, what we mean is we're going marketing, what we mean is we're going to be collaborative, we're going to be to be collaborative, we're going to be to be collaborative, we're going to be objective, and we're going to be objective, and we're going to be objective, and we're going to be completely transparent so that they know completely transparent so that they know completely transparent so that they know where every dollar goes and exactly what where every dollar goes and exactly what where every dollar goes and exactly what they get out of it so that it moves they get out of it so that it moves they get out of it so that it moves their operational goals forward.

their operational goals forward. their operational goals forward. >> I love it. Comes to warm my heart when I >> I love it. Comes to warm my heart when I >> I love it. Comes to warm my heart when I get a chance to talk to people get a chance to talk to people get a chance to talk to people on this podcast it's there's so much on this podcast it's there's so much on this podcast it's there's so much energy spent on the big hyper-growth energy spent on the big hyper-growth energy spent on the big hyper-growth firms, the you know, the like oh, you firms, the you know, the like oh, you firms, the you know, the like oh, you know, I I was able to lead my startup to know, I I was able to lead my startup to know, I I was able to lead my startup to a $50 million a $50 million a $50 million valuation before exiting and like valuation before exiting and like valuation before exiting and like it's it's it's such like the the topic it's it's it's such like the the topic it's it's it's such like the the topic du jour, but I really love it when you du jour, but I really love it when you du jour, but I really love it when you get to talk to somebody who's like, "No, get to talk to somebody who's like, "No, get to talk to somebody who's like, "No, you know what my goal is? My goal is to you know what my goal is? My goal is to you know what my goal is? My goal is to help small businesses. It's to help help small businesses. It's to help help small businesses. It's to help other entrepreneurs. other entrepreneurs. other entrepreneurs. It's to like cut through some of the It's to like cut through some of the It's to like cut through some of the noise that we know that they deal with. noise that we know that they deal with. noise that we know that they deal with. Um I love that. So, thank you. Uh but Um I love that. So, thank you. Uh but Um I love that. So, thank you. Uh but that's I'm guessing because you started that's I'm guessing because you started that's I'm guessing because you started on the other side of the table. Is that on the other side of the table. Is that on the other side of the table. Is that right? right? right? >> 100%. Started on the back of a backhoe >> 100%. Started on the back of a backhoe >> 100%. Started on the back of a backhoe with my dad being a plumber and us with my dad being a plumber and us with my dad being a plumber and us having our plumbing business in the having our plumbing business in the having our plumbing business in the third bedroom of our little house in the third bedroom of our little house in the third bedroom of our little house in the suburbs of Dallas. And um when the phone suburbs of Dallas. And um when the phone suburbs of Dallas. And um when the phone didn't ring, we didn't eat. didn't ring, we didn't eat. didn't ring, we didn't eat. Um and so, I got to see my parents Um and so, I got to see my parents Um and so, I got to see my parents eventually grow into a multi-million eventually grow into a multi-million eventually grow into a multi-million dollar um business conglomerate, but it dollar um business conglomerate, but it dollar um business conglomerate, but it took 30 years for them to get there.

took 30 years for them to get there. took 30 years for them to get there. And I firmly believe that with the And I firmly believe that with the And I firmly believe that with the advancement of technology and AI and advancement of technology and AI and advancement of technology and AI and just just just personal experience, we can help personal experience, we can help personal experience, we can help entrepreneurs grow their businesses entrepreneurs grow their businesses entrepreneurs grow their businesses faster faster faster and um more effectively, but sometimes and um more effectively, but sometimes and um more effectively, but sometimes you're standing on the shoulders of you're standing on the shoulders of you're standing on the shoulders of giants and you have to learn um the hard giants and you have to learn um the hard giants and you have to learn um the hard way. And when it comes to spending money way. And when it comes to spending money way. And when it comes to spending money on marketing, people usually get acid on marketing, people usually get acid on marketing, people usually get acid reflux. They're you know, oh, you know, reflux. They're you know, oh, you know, reflux. They're you know, oh, you know, I don't I don't really want to do that. I don't I don't really want to do that. I don't I don't really want to do that. Um but that's part of our passion and Um but that's part of our passion and Um but that's part of our passion and our goal is to help them to get what our goal is to help them to get what our goal is to help them to get what they need faster so that then they can they need faster so that then they can they need faster so that then they can turn around and be a blessing to others turn around and be a blessing to others turn around and be a blessing to others cuz when small business succeeds the cuz when small business succeeds the cuz when small business succeeds the American economy succeeds. American economy succeeds. American economy succeeds. >> I mean that's the way it's supposed to >> I mean that's the way it's supposed to >> I mean that's the way it's supposed to be. I feel like uh people have forgotten be. I feel like uh people have forgotten be. I feel like uh people have forgotten that lately, but I agree with that. Um that lately, but I agree with that. Um that lately, but I agree with that. Um did you expect to build your own agency? did you expect to build your own agency? did you expect to build your own agency? Was that Was that something that was Was that Was that something that was Was that Was that something that was kind of always in the cards or did that kind of always in the cards or did that kind of always in the cards or did that come to you later? come to you later? come to you later? >> No, it absolutely came to me later >> No, it absolutely came to me later >> No, it absolutely came to me later through twists and turns of life. Um you through twists and turns of life. Um you through twists and turns of life. Um you know, little people called children come know, little people called children come know, little people called children come into your world and turn your entire into your world and turn your entire into your world and turn your entire world upside down. You go, "Oh, all world upside down. You go, "Oh, all world upside down. You go, "Oh, all right." Uh no, originally I was on the right." Uh no, originally I was on the right." Uh no, originally I was on the path to being an opera singer. Um path to being an opera singer. Um path to being an opera singer. Um graduated from Baylor University despite graduated from Baylor University despite graduated from Baylor University despite my birth order.

my birth order. my birth order. Um and um thought that I would travel Um and um thought that I would travel Um and um thought that I would travel the world and sing opera and loved it the world and sing opera and loved it the world and sing opera and loved it for a very long time. for a very long time. for a very long time. Um you don't make much money as a Um you don't make much money as a Um you don't make much money as a soprano in an overly saturated soprano in an overly saturated soprano in an overly saturated world of the performing arts. Came back, world of the performing arts. Came back, world of the performing arts. Came back, worked in the family business, thought, worked in the family business, thought, worked in the family business, thought, "Cool, I'm going to run the family "Cool, I'm going to run the family "Cool, I'm going to run the family business." business." business." Um alongside of working with my family Um alongside of working with my family Um alongside of working with my family um was challenged to start my first um was challenged to start my first um was challenged to start my first marketing company in 2013, which scaled marketing company in 2013, which scaled marketing company in 2013, which scaled so quickly that private equity picked it so quickly that private equity picked it so quickly that private equity picked it up in 2018. up in 2018. up in 2018. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> And the condition of sale was that I >> And the condition of sale was that I >> And the condition of sale was that I went with it. So then I left family went with it. So then I left family went with it. So then I left family business. So there's another twist and business. So there's another twist and business. So there's another twist and turn. turn. turn. Um loved private equity, thought I'd Um loved private equity, thought I'd Um loved private equity, thought I'd stay in that, then I had a baby and stay in that, then I had a baby and stay in that, then I had a baby and discovered you kind of have to be home discovered you kind of have to be home discovered you kind of have to be home with these little people. They kind of with these little people. They kind of with these little people. They kind of need you. And then I came back to my need you. And then I came back to my need you. And then I came back to my entrepreneurial roots and went, "Oh, entrepreneurial roots and went, "Oh, entrepreneurial roots and went, "Oh, this is my calling. This is my passion. this is my calling. This is my passion. this is my calling. This is my passion. This is my heart. I want to serve fellow This is my heart. I want to serve fellow This is my heart. I want to serve fellow entrepreneurs." And when when Zig Ziglar entrepreneurs." And when when Zig Ziglar entrepreneurs." And when when Zig Ziglar said, "If you help enough people get said, "If you help enough people get said, "If you help enough people get what they want, you'll never have to what they want, you'll never have to what they want, you'll never have to worry about getting what you want." worry about getting what you want." worry about getting what you want." >> That's a great quote. >> That's a great quote. >> That's a great quote. Uh sometimes it's you forget to fall Uh sometimes it's you forget to fall Uh sometimes it's you forget to fall back to the classics. That's a good one.

back to the classics. That's a good one. back to the classics. That's a good one. But so okay, you like many of us have But so okay, you like many of us have But so okay, you like many of us have you've been in a marketing role. you've been in a marketing role. you've been in a marketing role. You've helped You've helped You've helped build organizations. You're now on your build organizations. You're now on your build organizations. You're now on your own. You're doing your You're doing own. You're doing your You're doing own. You're doing your You're doing something that's very much different, something that's very much different, something that's very much different, right? Like helping yourself, helping right? Like helping yourself, helping right? Like helping yourself, helping your own business versus helping others your own business versus helping others your own business versus helping others can be rewarding, it can be maddening. can be rewarding, it can be maddening. can be rewarding, it can be maddening. Um, it can be, you know, you can it can Um, it can be, you know, you can it can Um, it can be, you know, you can it can lead to hair pulling to some extremes lead to hair pulling to some extremes lead to hair pulling to some extremes and others. Uh, like and others. Uh, like and others. Uh, like was there a moment that you remember was there a moment that you remember was there a moment that you remember thinking, thinking, thinking, "Okay, I have like I think I should "Okay, I have like I think I should "Okay, I have like I think I should start an agency." Do you remember the start an agency." Do you remember the start an agency." Do you remember the moment where you the where that like hit moment where you the where that like hit moment where you the where that like hit you and you said, "Okay, this is I think you and you said, "Okay, this is I think you and you said, "Okay, this is I think going to be the next step." going to be the next step." going to be the next step." >> Yeah. Yeah, it was. I was serving as the >> Yeah. Yeah, it was. I was serving as the >> Yeah. Yeah, it was. I was serving as the chief marketing officer and chief chief marketing officer and chief chief marketing officer and chief information officer of a family-owned information officer of a family-owned information officer of a family-owned company company company um in Wisconsin. And they laid me off 2 um in Wisconsin. And they laid me off 2 um in Wisconsin. And they laid me off 2 weeks before Christmas. weeks before Christmas. weeks before Christmas. And they laid me off after me and my And they laid me off after me and my And they laid me off after me and my colleagues had gotten them profitable colleagues had gotten them profitable colleagues had gotten them profitable for the first time in I think close to a for the first time in I think close to a for the first time in I think close to a decade using the marketing systems and decade using the marketing systems and decade using the marketing systems and processes that we had put in place only processes that we had put in place only processes that we had put in place only 18 months earlier. I remember thinking, 18 months earlier. I remember thinking, 18 months earlier. I remember thinking, "You son of a Um, "You son of a Um, "You son of a Um, thanks for the kick in the ass after all thanks for the kick in the ass after all thanks for the kick in the ass after all the hard work. Screw you. I'm going to the hard work. Screw you. I'm going to the hard work. Screw you. I'm going to go do what I did for you for other go do what I did for you for other go do what I did for you for other people and I'm going to get paid myself people and I'm going to get paid myself people and I'm going to get paid myself and not rely on you for a paycheck." So, and not rely on you for a paycheck." So, and not rely on you for a paycheck." So, it might have been a double birdie it might have been a double birdie it might have been a double birdie situation if you know what I mean.

situation if you know what I mean. situation if you know what I mean. >> How long did it take you before >> How long did it take you before >> How long did it take you before you you figured out that was the right you you figured out that was the right you you figured out that was the right choice? choice? choice? >> A week? >> A week? >> A week? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I was I was like there's a lot of uh >> I was I was like there's a lot of uh >> I was I was like there's a lot of uh mental calculus happening [laughter] mental calculus happening [laughter] mental calculus happening [laughter] here. This here. This here. This >> Let me think. A week? A month? When did >> Let me think. A week? A month? When did >> Let me think. A week? A month? When did I first get paid? Uh I don't know. I first get paid? Uh I don't know. I first get paid? Uh I don't know. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> That was it >> That was it >> That was it >> to this day it was the right choice. >> to this day it was the right choice. >> to this day it was the right choice. Matt, daily I wake up and go, "What the Matt, daily I wake up and go, "What the Matt, daily I wake up and go, "What the hell am I doing?" hell am I doing?" hell am I doing?" >> [laughter] >> Now, I doubt that that daily you think, >> Now, I doubt that that daily you think, "What am I doing?" Although you probably "What am I doing?" Although you probably "What am I doing?" Although you probably might ask yourself you need to hire a might ask yourself you need to hire a might ask yourself you need to hire a few more people maybe. Is that uh few more people maybe. Is that uh few more people maybe. Is that uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah, we're we're very blessed. We we've >> Yeah, we're we're very blessed. We we've >> Yeah, we're we're very blessed. We we've got a great team of 14 who um serve our got a great team of 14 who um serve our got a great team of 14 who um serve our clients and we like having a family clients and we like having a family clients and we like having a family atmosphere around here. Um I'm in our atmosphere around here. Um I'm in our atmosphere around here. Um I'm in our executive office in beautiful Adriatica executive office in beautiful Adriatica executive office in beautiful Adriatica and we have clients that we have four and we have clients that we have four and we have clients that we have four desks and an office suite and our desks and an office suite and our desks and an office suite and our clients come and sit next to us right clients come and sit next to us right clients come and sit next to us right next to the desk and we settle at the next to the desk and we settle at the next to the desk and we settle at the side of them and go, "What's up? How can side of them and go, "What's up? How can side of them and go, "What's up? How can we help?" So, we love to keep it we help?" So, we love to keep it we help?" So, we love to keep it face-to-face like that. face-to-face like that. face-to-face like that. >> That's really great. That's you know, it >> That's really great. That's you know, it >> That's really great. That's you know, it feels like increasingly in the last, you feels like increasingly in the last, you feels like increasingly in the last, you know, 20 years as it's become easier and know, 20 years as it's become easier and know, 20 years as it's become easier and easier to easier to easier to to be remote in every capacity.

to be remote in every capacity. to be remote in every capacity. Um, I feel like there's a little bit of Um, I feel like there's a little bit of Um, I feel like there's a little bit of almost um almost um almost um a pull back to some face-to-face a pull back to some face-to-face a pull back to some face-to-face business. Like I you know, I was business. Like I you know, I was business. Like I you know, I was actually it was planning my week and actually it was planning my week and actually it was planning my week and there was a moment where I'm like, "Oh there was a moment where I'm like, "Oh there was a moment where I'm like, "Oh yeah, there's an opportunity to be yeah, there's an opportunity to be yeah, there's an opportunity to be face-to-face." I feel like my my desire face-to-face." I feel like my my desire face-to-face." I feel like my my desire to do those things today is different to do those things today is different to do those things today is different than it was 5 years ago. Are you finding than it was 5 years ago. Are you finding than it was 5 years ago. Are you finding that as well with you and your clients? that as well with you and your clients? that as well with you and your clients? >> Most definitely. I think people are >> Most definitely. I think people are >> Most definitely. I think people are paying a premium for face-to-face paying a premium for face-to-face paying a premium for face-to-face because we lacked it for so long and we because we lacked it for so long and we because we lacked it for so long and we took it for granted. And now when you're took it for granted. And now when you're took it for granted. And now when you're willing to meet with someone and share willing to meet with someone and share willing to meet with someone and share your time in person, it builds rapport your time in person, it builds rapport your time in person, it builds rapport almost immediately. almost immediately. almost immediately. >> They know how much it means now, almost, >> They know how much it means now, almost, >> They know how much it means now, almost, right? Like we took it for granted for right? Like we took it for granted for right? Like we took it for granted for decades. It was just you know, business decades. It was just you know, business decades. It was just you know, business as usual, but now I feel like people as usual, but now I feel like people as usual, but now I feel like people really go, "Yeah, that was You didn't really go, "Yeah, that was You didn't really go, "Yeah, that was You didn't have to come. That was important." Like have to come. That was important." Like have to come. That was important." Like it matters more, right? it matters more, right? it matters more, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, we just did a complete >> Yeah. Yeah, we just did a complete >> Yeah. Yeah, we just did a complete rebrand and website overhaul for area rebrand and website overhaul for area rebrand and website overhaul for area Chamber of Commerce and I was shocked Chamber of Commerce and I was shocked Chamber of Commerce and I was shocked when the president of the chamber said, when the president of the chamber said, when the president of the chamber said, "You're the only marketing firm that "You're the only marketing firm that "You're the only marketing firm that responded and asked for an in-person responded and asked for an in-person responded and asked for an in-person meeting and um met with us to talk about meeting and um met with us to talk about meeting and um met with us to talk about this project." I was shocked.

this project." I was shocked. this project." I was shocked. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Everybody else was just, "Hey, here's >> Everybody else was just, "Hey, here's >> Everybody else was just, "Hey, here's our pitch over Zoom." And our pitch over Zoom." And our pitch over Zoom." And Yeah, interesting. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, interesting. >> Or over email or yeah. Yeah, we were >> Or over email or yeah. Yeah, we were >> Or over email or yeah. Yeah, we were like, "No, come to our office. Speak to like, "No, come to our office. Speak to like, "No, come to our office. Speak to us in person. Get in front of our us in person. Get in front of our us in person. Get in front of our whiteboard." whiteboard." whiteboard." >> Interesting. Is there anything Oh, I >> Interesting. Is there anything Oh, I >> Interesting. Is there anything Oh, I want to pull in this thread. Let's come want to pull in this thread. Let's come want to pull in this thread. Let's come back to it. Um, I'm I'm like really I back to it. Um, I'm I'm like really I back to it. Um, I'm I'm like really I want to tap tap into this whole doing want to tap tap into this whole doing want to tap tap into this whole doing business in person again, but but we'll business in person again, but but we'll business in person again, but but we'll we'll do that towards the end. My I do we'll do that towards the end. My I do we'll do that towards the end. My I do want to take you down a path though. So, want to take you down a path though. So, want to take you down a path though. So, how many clients do you do currently how many clients do you do currently how many clients do you do currently work with? work with? work with? >> I think we're somewhere between 75 and >> I think we're somewhere between 75 and >> I think we're somewhere between 75 and 100. 100. 100. >> Okay. Is there a pattern that has >> Okay. Is there a pattern that has >> Okay. Is there a pattern that has emerged emerged emerged about like one of the first things you about like one of the first things you about like one of the first things you have to do to educate your clients? Like have to do to educate your clients? Like have to do to educate your clients? Like you're coming in, you're saying, "Okay, you're coming in, you're saying, "Okay, you're coming in, you're saying, "Okay, I'm going to help you solve this I'm going to help you solve this I'm going to help you solve this marketing problem. We've got an agency, marketing problem. We've got an agency, marketing problem. We've got an agency, we're trusted, we're face-to-face." we're trusted, we're face-to-face." we're trusted, we're face-to-face." And then And then And then you get back and you're like, "Gosh, it you get back and you're like, "Gosh, it you get back and you're like, "Gosh, it feels like two out of three of these feels like two out of three of these feels like two out of three of these meetings I end up having to tell this meetings I end up having to tell this meetings I end up having to tell this story." Is there something that you find story." Is there something that you find story." Is there something that you find that you lean a little bit more heavily that you lean a little bit more heavily that you lean a little bit more heavily on on on in terms of like educating and just kind in terms of like educating and just kind in terms of like educating and just kind of setting expectations at the of setting expectations at the of setting expectations at the beginning?

beginning? beginning? >> Yeah, two major principles that are also >> Yeah, two major principles that are also >> Yeah, two major principles that are also what my book is based on that. Number what my book is based on that. Number what my book is based on that. Number one is clarity of message. one is clarity of message. one is clarity of message. So frequently, um, our clients do not So frequently, um, our clients do not So frequently, um, our clients do not understand why no one's paying attention understand why no one's paying attention understand why no one's paying attention to what they're saying. to what they're saying. to what they're saying. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And so we take them back to the basics >> And so we take them back to the basics >> And so we take them back to the basics in their website performance. We show in their website performance. We show in their website performance. We show them how clarity of message is impacting them how clarity of message is impacting them how clarity of message is impacting the number of visitors and lack of the number of visitors and lack of the number of visitors and lack of conversions. In their social media, in conversions. In their social media, in conversions. In their social media, in basically every marketing tactic. If you basically every marketing tactic. If you basically every marketing tactic. If you cannot effectively compel someone to do cannot effectively compel someone to do cannot effectively compel someone to do business with you in two seconds or business with you in two seconds or business with you in two seconds or less, you have lost them. less, you have lost them. less, you have lost them. So clarity of message is huge. The other So clarity of message is huge. The other So clarity of message is huge. The other thing that we take them back to is that thing that we take them back to is that thing that we take them back to is that operational goals set the direction and operational goals set the direction and operational goals set the direction and budget for marketing goals, not the budget for marketing goals, not the budget for marketing goals, not the other way around as so many business other way around as so many business other way around as so many business owners have been preconditioned to owners have been preconditioned to owners have been preconditioned to believe because they've been said, "We believe because they've been said, "We believe because they've been said, "We do magic fairy dust and we'll grow your do magic fairy dust and we'll grow your do magic fairy dust and we'll grow your business. So here, just give us a business. So here, just give us a business. So here, just give us a check." And as long as you give us a check." And as long as you give us a check." And as long as you give us a check, your business is going to grow.

check, your business is going to grow. check, your business is going to grow. And then it doesn't work and they get And then it doesn't work and they get And then it doesn't work and they get pissed off. So it's actually the pissed off. So it's actually the pissed off. So it's actually the opposite where we say, "Okay, you need opposite where we say, "Okay, you need opposite where we say, "Okay, you need to start by telling us how you're going to start by telling us how you're going to start by telling us how you're going to measure success." to measure success." to measure success." Because if you don't tell us that in the Because if you don't tell us that in the Because if you don't tell us that in the beginning, this relationship is doomed beginning, this relationship is doomed beginning, this relationship is doomed to fail. to fail. to fail. >> And I'm assuming they typically say, >> And I'm assuming they typically say, >> And I'm assuming they typically say, "Oh, well, it's grow revenues." Right? "Oh, well, it's grow revenues." Right? "Oh, well, it's grow revenues." Right? That's there's like some top-level. How That's there's like some top-level. How That's there's like some top-level. How do you take them? And I don't want you do you take them? And I don't want you do you take them? And I don't want you to like give away your service here, but to like give away your service here, but to like give away your service here, but like what's a What's an example path like what's a What's an example path like what's a What's an example path where you're like, "Okay, yes. You need where you're like, "Okay, yes. You need where you're like, "Okay, yes. You need to simplify. You need to focus. What are to simplify. You need to focus. What are to simplify. You need to focus. What are your goals next year?" your goals next year?" your goals next year?" And then they're going to tell you, "Oh, And then they're going to tell you, "Oh, And then they're going to tell you, "Oh, you know, we've got to increase revenues you know, we've got to increase revenues you know, we've got to increase revenues by X." X. Do you walk them through like by X." X. Do you walk them through like by X." X. Do you walk them through like do they you have them take you through do they you have them take you through do they you have them take you through that process or do you go straight to, that process or do you go straight to, that process or do you go straight to, "Okay, well, based on that, here's what "Okay, well, based on that, here's what "Okay, well, based on that, here's what you're going to have to do from a you're going to have to do from a you're going to have to do from a marketing perspective." How do you marketing perspective." How do you marketing perspective." How do you typically steer those conversations? typically steer those conversations? typically steer those conversations? >> Yeah, it's typically a combination of >> Yeah, it's typically a combination of >> Yeah, it's typically a combination of what you just said, Matt. So, we listen. what you just said, Matt. So, we listen. what you just said, Matt. So, we listen. We ask a lot of questions about the We ask a lot of questions about the We ask a lot of questions about the infrastructure of the business, lack infrastructure of the business, lack infrastructure of the business, lack thereof, etc. And then we come back to thereof, etc. And then we come back to thereof, etc. And then we come back to them with a marketing audit, with a them with a marketing audit, with a them with a marketing audit, with a questionnaire, and we ask them to give questionnaire, and we ask them to give questionnaire, and we ask them to give us access to information that they us access to information that they us access to information that they currently have. And then the currently have. And then the currently have. And then the intersection of those two um buckets intersection of those two um buckets intersection of those two um buckets tell us what's missing and what tactics tell us what's missing and what tactics tell us what's missing and what tactics are going to empower them the most are going to empower them the most are going to empower them the most quickly. And then we devise either they quickly. And then we devise either they quickly. And then we devise either they go into one of our standard packages go into one of our standard packages go into one of our standard packages that is all-encompassing to grow quickly that is all-encompassing to grow quickly that is all-encompassing to grow quickly or we devise an a la carte option and we or we devise an a la carte option and we or we devise an a la carte option and we start setting up systems for them so start setting up systems for them so start setting up systems for them so that again from the beginning there is that again from the beginning there is that again from the beginning there is total transparency and they see the

total transparency and they see the total transparency and they see the intersection of what marketing is doing intersection of what marketing is doing intersection of what marketing is doing in real life. Inbound calls, website in real life. Inbound calls, website in real life. Inbound calls, website visitors, visitors, visitors, ticket averages. We give every client ticket averages. We give every client ticket averages. We give every client who wants it, and why wouldn't you want who wants it, and why wouldn't you want who wants it, and why wouldn't you want it, an executive dashboard of how the it, an executive dashboard of how the it, an executive dashboard of how the marketing is performing. marketing is performing. marketing is performing. From the get-go. From the get-go. From the get-go. >> Do you find that you guys typically >> Do you find that you guys typically >> Do you find that you guys typically partner partner partner as an agency because they don't have a as an agency because they don't have a as an agency because they don't have a marketing team and they need like sort marketing team and they need like sort marketing team and they need like sort of like almost like a fractional support of like almost like a fractional support of like almost like a fractional support system to help them with all their system to help them with all their system to help them with all their marketing needs or is it that you're marketing needs or is it that you're marketing needs or is it that you're typically helping marketing teams figure typically helping marketing teams figure typically helping marketing teams figure out out out how to expand their current footprint? how to expand their current footprint? how to expand their current footprint? Like Like Like Do you find that there's a there's a Do you find that there's a there's a Do you find that there's a there's a common pattern there? common pattern there? common pattern there? >> You know, it's interesting. Yes, Matt. >> You know, it's interesting. Yes, Matt. >> You know, it's interesting. Yes, Matt. We have actually four ideal client We have actually four ideal client We have actually four ideal client profiles, ICPs. And two of the four are profiles, ICPs. And two of the four are profiles, ICPs. And two of the four are what you just described. We serve what you just described. We serve what you just described. We serve marketing managers who are in-house, who marketing managers who are in-house, who marketing managers who are in-house, who need resources, advice, strategy, and need resources, advice, strategy, and need resources, advice, strategy, and platforms. We also serve those who do platforms. We also serve those who do platforms. We also serve those who do not have that and need to completely not have that and need to completely not have that and need to completely outsource because they don't want to add outsource because they don't want to add outsource because they don't want to add to head count. The other one we serve is to head count. The other one we serve is to head count. The other one we serve is who we talked about earlier, the small who we talked about earlier, the small who we talked about earlier, the small business owner who doesn't know where to business owner who doesn't know where to business owner who doesn't know where to begin. We devise an entire begin. We devise an entire begin. We devise an entire entrepreneurial marketing system that we entrepreneurial marketing system that we entrepreneurial marketing system that we literally hand them for one flat price.

literally hand them for one flat price. literally hand them for one flat price. And then we have a marketing course that And then we have a marketing course that And then we have a marketing course that empowers them with resources. And then empowers them with resources. And then empowers them with resources. And then the fourth ICP is the enterprise-level the fourth ICP is the enterprise-level the fourth ICP is the enterprise-level national brand where we partner with national brand where we partner with national brand where we partner with franchisors, mainly through our vendor franchisors, mainly through our vendor franchisors, mainly through our vendor relationships with franchise attorneys relationships with franchise attorneys relationships with franchise attorneys and and and M&A firms to help them standardize and M&A firms to help them standardize and M&A firms to help them standardize and streamline national marketing buys for streamline national marketing buys for streamline national marketing buys for efficiency. efficiency. efficiency. >> Yeah, that's super interesting. I don't >> Yeah, that's super interesting. I don't >> Yeah, that's super interesting. I don't think we talked about the franchises think we talked about the franchises think we talked about the franchises before. That's like that's its own whole before. That's like that's its own whole before. That's like that's its own whole entire thing, right? Like especially entire thing, right? Like especially entire thing, right? Like especially when you when you've got like a national when you when you've got like a national when you when you've got like a national brand, but then the local off like the brand, but then the local off like the brand, but then the local off like the local locations still have to somehow local locations still have to somehow local locations still have to somehow muster up a way to supplement their muster up a way to supplement their muster up a way to supplement their marketing efforts from like, you know, marketing efforts from like, you know, marketing efforts from like, you know, great. So, Chili's runs nationwide ads great. So, Chili's runs nationwide ads great. So, Chili's runs nationwide ads occasionally. It doesn't doesn't help occasionally. It doesn't doesn't help occasionally. It doesn't doesn't help the local Dallas Chili's get more people the local Dallas Chili's get more people the local Dallas Chili's get more people in, right? in, right? in, right? >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> That's a really interesting. Do you >> That's a really interesting. Do you >> That's a really interesting. Do you spend a lot of time with that industry spend a lot of time with that industry spend a lot of time with that industry or is that just like one of the Yeah, or is that just like one of the Yeah, or is that just like one of the Yeah, okay. okay. okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, we do. That's definitely a >> Yeah. Yeah, we do. That's definitely a >> Yeah. Yeah, we do. That's definitely a niche for us cuz I have a very strong niche for us cuz I have a very strong niche for us cuz I have a very strong franchising background. And so, yeah, franchising background. And so, yeah, franchising background. And so, yeah, marketing for franchising is totally marketing for franchising is totally marketing for franchising is totally different as an ICP.

different as an ICP. different as an ICP. >> That's interesting. That's I feel like >> That's interesting. That's I feel like >> That's interesting. That's I feel like that is an industry that has somehow that is an industry that has somehow that is an industry that has somehow created a bubble for itself that like created a bubble for itself that like created a bubble for itself that like they can operate with like almost no they can operate with like almost no they can operate with like almost no public understanding of like how that public understanding of like how that public understanding of like how that business operates. The idea of a business operates. The idea of a business operates. The idea of a franchise model, I think if you grow up franchise model, I think if you grow up franchise model, I think if you grow up around it, you get it. But if you around it, you get it. But if you around it, you get it. But if you haven't been directly exposed, like you haven't been directly exposed, like you haven't been directly exposed, like you just think all Chili's are Chili's, just think all Chili's are Chili's, just think all Chili's are Chili's, right? I'm just picking on Chili's as an right? I'm just picking on Chili's as an right? I'm just picking on Chili's as an example. example. example. Yeah, but like that's that's Yeah, but like that's that's Yeah, but like that's that's that's kind of fascinating. Did you that's kind of fascinating. Did you that's kind of fascinating. Did you Was that a strategic thing or did you Was that a strategic thing or did you Was that a strategic thing or did you get pulled into that? get pulled into that? get pulled into that? >> I definitely got pulled into that >> I definitely got pulled into that >> I definitely got pulled into that because of my background in franchising because of my background in franchising because of my background in franchising because I spent so many years in the because I spent so many years in the because I spent so many years in the family franchise business. family franchise business. family franchise business. I was very blessed to have a connection I was very blessed to have a connection I was very blessed to have a connection of other people in franchising who came of other people in franchising who came of other people in franchising who came to me and said, "Hey, let's work to me and said, "Hey, let's work to me and said, "Hey, let's work together." And then it just kind of went together." And then it just kind of went together." And then it just kind of went on from there. And then I'm a part of on from there. And then I'm a part of on from there. And then I'm a part of some C-level networking groups that some C-level networking groups that some C-level networking groups that serve a lot of franchisors, people who serve a lot of franchisors, people who serve a lot of franchisors, people who are creating their franchises, need help are creating their franchises, need help are creating their franchises, need help with branding, etc. So, it was a with branding, etc. So, it was a with branding, etc. So, it was a combination of of history and combination of of history and combination of of history and experience.

experience. experience. >> What's for people who've never been >> What's for people who've never been >> What's for people who've never been exposed? So, they they vaguely exposed? So, they they vaguely exposed? So, they they vaguely understand there's this idea of a understand there's this idea of a understand there's this idea of a franchise model, but they've never been franchise model, but they've never been franchise model, but they've never been exposed. What are like exposed. What are like exposed. What are like two or three of the biggest differences two or three of the biggest differences two or three of the biggest differences about how that business model typically about how that business model typically about how that business model typically goes to market versus, you know, your goes to market versus, you know, your goes to market versus, you know, your traditional B2B business in any other traditional B2B business in any other traditional B2B business in any other category? category? category? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. Really, it boils down to control. So, as Really, it boils down to control. So, as Really, it boils down to control. So, as a franchisee, you do not control the a franchisee, you do not control the a franchisee, you do not control the brand messaging. You do not control the brand messaging. You do not control the brand messaging. You do not control the marketing dollars. marketing dollars. marketing dollars. So, you usually don't even control your So, you usually don't even control your So, you usually don't even control your own website, and sometimes you don't own website, and sometimes you don't own website, and sometimes you don't control your marketing tactics, either. control your marketing tactics, either. control your marketing tactics, either. So, you [clears throat] are limited in So, you [clears throat] are limited in So, you [clears throat] are limited in terms of what you can do to market your terms of what you can do to market your terms of what you can do to market your own business, and the laws of your own business, and the laws of your own business, and the laws of your franchise agreement are what dictate franchise agreement are what dictate franchise agreement are what dictate the level of flexibility that a the level of flexibility that a the level of flexibility that a franchisee has. franchisee has. franchisee has. But for the most part, it really boils But for the most part, it really boils But for the most part, it really boils down to strategic control on a local down to strategic control on a local down to strategic control on a local level. level. level. >> That makes sense. For those of you >> That makes sense. For those of you >> That makes sense. For those of you listening or watching, depending on when listening or watching, depending on when listening or watching, depending on when this comes out, if you're over the age this comes out, if you're over the age this comes out, if you're over the age of 40, this is how the Quiznos sponge of 40, this is how the Quiznos sponge of 40, this is how the Quiznos sponge monkey ads monkey ads monkey ads and this is how your local franchise got and this is how your local franchise got and this is how your local franchise got stuck with those.

stuck with those. stuck with those. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It's so true. >> It's so true. >> It's so true. >> Is a corporate decision was made that >> Is a corporate decision was made that >> Is a corporate decision was made that you had no control over. Okay, yeah, I you had no control over. Okay, yeah, I you had no control over. Okay, yeah, I think that's a think that's a think that's a So, so you end up with in your seat, So, so you end up with in your seat, So, so you end up with in your seat, Amber, are you working with the local Amber, are you working with the local Amber, are you working with the local locations or you working with corporate locations or you working with corporate locations or you working with corporate typically? Because you said national typically? Because you said national typically? Because you said national rollout, I think when you're describing rollout, I think when you're describing rollout, I think when you're describing it. it. it. >> Mhm. Mhm. You know, uh Matt, we work >> Mhm. Mhm. You know, uh Matt, we work >> Mhm. Mhm. You know, uh Matt, we work with both. We work with both. I've I've with both. We work with both. I've I've with both. We work with both. I've I've spoken with um spoken with um spoken with um just this week I was speaking with a just this week I was speaking with a just this week I was speaking with a local franchisee of a Dallas-based local franchisee of a Dallas-based local franchisee of a Dallas-based franchise and um so we were helping them franchise and um so we were helping them franchise and um so we were helping them with some of their infrastructure and with some of their infrastructure and with some of their infrastructure and then in my networking group I was having then in my networking group I was having then in my networking group I was having a conversation with an attorney vendor a conversation with an attorney vendor a conversation with an attorney vendor partner. He goes, "Oh yeah, I know the partner. He goes, "Oh yeah, I know the partner. He goes, "Oh yeah, I know the franchisor of that group that you're franchisor of that group that you're franchisor of that group that you're talking about. Let's go have a meeting talking about. Let's go have a meeting talking about. Let's go have a meeting with them and talk about how you with them and talk about how you with them and talk about how you actually roll this out to the whole actually roll this out to the whole actually roll this out to the whole group." And then we've had fractional group." And then we've had fractional group." And then we've had fractional agreements with national brands that agreements with national brands that agreements with national brands that that come across us and go, "Hey, our that come across us and go, "Hey, our that come across us and go, "Hey, our operators in 32 markets are struggling. operators in 32 markets are struggling. operators in 32 markets are struggling. Can we run a pilot to see if you can get Can we run a pilot to see if you can get Can we run a pilot to see if you can get down our cost per call?" Sure, we can do down our cost per call?" Sure, we can do down our cost per call?" Sure, we can do that. So, we're we're very blessed to be that. So, we're we're very blessed to be that. So, we're we're very blessed to be able to speak both languages because able to speak both languages because able to speak both languages because we've done both and the game is we've done both and the game is we've done both and the game is different for franchisor versus different for franchisor versus different for franchisor versus franchisee. Two completely different franchisee. Two completely different franchisee. Two completely different goals and they don't have to be at an goals and they don't have to be at an goals and they don't have to be at an impasse. They can work in parallel and impasse. They can work in parallel and impasse. They can work in parallel and they do very well when everyone is they do very well when everyone is they do very well when everyone is speaking the same language.

speaking the same language. speaking the same language. >> Right. Right, which is the tricky part. >> Right. Right, which is the tricky part. >> Right. Right, which is the tricky part. Um but I mean that's like I think every Um but I mean that's like I think every Um but I mean that's like I think every marketing team on Earth has someone in marketing team on Earth has someone in marketing team on Earth has someone in their organ- someone in an organization their organ- someone in an organization their organ- someone in an organization they have to figure out how to they have to figure out how to they have to figure out how to communicate with. That seems like communicate with. That seems like communicate with. That seems like whether it's sales, whether you're whether it's sales, whether you're whether it's sales, whether you're internal or whether you're external and internal or whether you're external and internal or whether you're external and it's uh C-levels that don't understand it's uh C-levels that don't understand it's uh C-levels that don't understand why that's going to take time and cost why that's going to take time and cost why that's going to take time and cost money. Uh money. Uh money. Uh >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Feels like that's the uh that's the >> Feels like that's the uh that's the >> Feels like that's the uh that's the perpetual need for marketing. perpetual need for marketing. perpetual need for marketing. Okay, so practically speaking, so you Okay, so practically speaking, so you Okay, so practically speaking, so you built an agency, you were built an agency, you were built an agency, you were you're blessed enough to get that first you're blessed enough to get that first you're blessed enough to get that first customer you were lucky enough not lucky customer you were lucky enough not lucky customer you were lucky enough not lucky enough but like you know put in an enough but like you know put in an enough but like you know put in an interesting position to be able to interesting position to be able to interesting position to be able to leverage a knowledge of you know some leverage a knowledge of you know some leverage a knowledge of you know some niche industries like niche industries like niche industries like what if you can remember back what if you can remember back what if you can remember back of course you can but like if you're of course you can but like if you're of course you can but like if you're willing to talk about it willing to talk about it willing to talk about it go back to like the first hundred so go back to like the first hundred so go back to like the first hundred so you've got customer one maybe you've got you've got customer one maybe you've got you've got customer one maybe you've got customer two through word of mouth customer two through word of mouth customer two through word of mouth people who know you people who know you people who know you you're trying to go from customers three you're trying to go from customers three you're trying to go from customers three to whatever how do you build that are to whatever how do you build that are to whatever how do you build that are you the sales person do you hire a sales you the sales person do you hire a sales you the sales person do you hire a sales person like like how do you start person like like how do you start person like like how do you start building a business from zero as a as an building a business from zero as a as an building a business from zero as a as an entrepreneur?

entrepreneur? entrepreneur? >> Prayer >> Prayer >> Prayer sleepless nights sleepless nights sleepless nights wine wine wine >> Okay, all three are repeatable. So okay, >> Okay, all three are repeatable. So okay, >> Okay, all three are repeatable. So okay, so so far so good. so so far so good. so so far so good. >> Absolutely. Yeah, I mean like w h i n e >> Absolutely. Yeah, I mean like w h i n e >> Absolutely. Yeah, I mean like w h i n e and the w i n e yeah, absolutely. No, I and the w i n e yeah, absolutely. No, I and the w i n e yeah, absolutely. No, I I you wear all hats when you start your I you wear all hats when you start your I you wear all hats when you start your own business unless you are privileged own business unless you are privileged own business unless you are privileged to have to have to have some onboarding cash and an investor some onboarding cash and an investor some onboarding cash and an investor it's very different right but when you it's very different right but when you it's very different right but when you are bootstrapping a business together are bootstrapping a business together are bootstrapping a business together you wear all the hats. So I'm still on you wear all the hats. So I'm still on you wear all the hats. So I'm still on every sales call. I'm on every sales every sales call. I'm on every sales every sales call. I'm on every sales call because I want my voice and my call because I want my voice and my call because I want my voice and my strategy to touch every single client strategy to touch every single client strategy to touch every single client and I'm a bit of a control freak. But and I'm a bit of a control freak. But and I'm a bit of a control freak. But it was me and it was the and it was my it was me and it was the and it was my it was me and it was the and it was my pastor's wife who came alongside me and pastor's wife who came alongside me and pastor's wife who came alongside me and said I can help you with emails and I said I can help you with emails and I said I can help you with emails and I can help you with some basic you know can help you with some basic you know can help you with some basic you know graphic design fulfillment and hey, I'm graphic design fulfillment and hey, I'm graphic design fulfillment and hey, I'm really good at quickbooks. I can set really good at quickbooks. I can set really good at quickbooks. I can set that up. I mean it was just two girls that up. I mean it was just two girls that up. I mean it was just two girls and a couple of laptops going and a couple of laptops going and a couple of laptops going please hire us for your marketing needs. please hire us for your marketing needs. please hire us for your marketing needs. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> We got scrappy.

>> We got scrappy. >> We got scrappy. >> chugged away at that until what number? >> chugged away at that until what number? >> chugged away at that until what number? >> Um let's see probably probably 10 >> Um let's see probably probably 10 >> Um let's see probably probably 10 probably the first 10 clients is when we probably the first 10 clients is when we probably the first 10 clients is when we went "Oh, went "Oh, went "Oh, we need some systems in place. And we we we need some systems in place. And we we we need some systems in place. And we we probably need some some more help and we probably need some some more help and we probably need some some more help and we need to find some outsourced partners need to find some outsourced partners need to find some outsourced partners who can crank out these websites faster. who can crank out these websites faster. who can crank out these websites faster. And And you know, the game is different And And you know, the game is different And And you know, the game is different from 1 to 10 to 10 to 20 to 20 to 50 to from 1 to 10 to 10 to 20 to 20 to 50 to from 1 to 10 to 10 to 20 to 20 to 50 to 50 to 100. You know, it's just like any 50 to 100. You know, it's just like any 50 to 100. You know, it's just like any other business. The more that you get other business. The more that you get other business. The more that you get more clients, the more efficient you more clients, the more efficient you more clients, the more efficient you really need to become so that you don't really need to become so that you don't really need to become so that you don't lose your shirt and your operating lose your shirt and your operating lose your shirt and your operating profit, right? Um and I think you're profit, right? Um and I think you're profit, right? Um and I think you're constantly reinvesting into your constantly reinvesting into your constantly reinvesting into your business. So, um if I was told from a business. So, um if I was told from a business. So, um if I was told from a very young age, systems run a business. very young age, systems run a business. very young age, systems run a business. People are always expendable, including People are always expendable, including People are always expendable, including the owner. So, if you don't build your the owner. So, if you don't build your the owner. So, if you don't build your business based on systems, business based on systems, business based on systems, then your business is doomed to fail. I then your business is doomed to fail. I then your business is doomed to fail. I have a goal of building a business that have a goal of building a business that have a goal of building a business that will run without me. will run without me. will run without me. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And I think that's the goal of most >> And I think that's the goal of most >> And I think that's the goal of most entrepreneurs. Like, let me go sit on my entrepreneurs. Like, let me go sit on my entrepreneurs. Like, let me go sit on my tie in a hammock and let my business tie in a hammock and let my business tie in a hammock and let my business grow while I'm gone. That's the ultimate grow while I'm gone. That's the ultimate grow while I'm gone. That's the ultimate dream, right? But the reality is, if you dream, right? But the reality is, if you dream, right? But the reality is, if you put all of your eggs in the basket of put all of your eggs in the basket of put all of your eggs in the basket of people, people, people, you're going to be disappointed every you're going to be disappointed every you're going to be disappointed every single time, including in yourself. So, single time, including in yourself. So, single time, including in yourself. So, you have to build incremental systems you have to build incremental systems you have to build incremental systems and documentation into your business.

and documentation into your business. and documentation into your business. >> Today's episode is brought to you by >> Today's episode is brought to you by >> Today's episode is brought to you by hunter.io, the B2B lead generation hunter.io, the B2B lead generation hunter.io, the B2B lead generation platform made for every professional. platform made for every professional. platform made for every professional. Whether it's prospecting, fundraising, Whether it's prospecting, fundraising, Whether it's prospecting, fundraising, recruiting, link building, or just recruiting, link building, or just recruiting, link building, or just trying to connect with the right people, trying to connect with the right people, trying to connect with the right people, Hunter makes it easy. Hunter makes it easy. Hunter makes it easy. >> Even if you are somebody who likes >> Even if you are somebody who likes >> Even if you are somebody who likes process or thinks of themselves as process or thinks of themselves as process or thinks of themselves as process oriented, process oriented, process oriented, that's a tough thing. Like figuring out that's a tough thing. Like figuring out that's a tough thing. Like figuring out And because I think like And because I think like And because I think like the energy that enables somebody to be the energy that enables somebody to be the energy that enables somebody to be an entrepreneur in the first place is an entrepreneur in the first place is an entrepreneur in the first place is generally, you know, you tend to be generally, you know, you tend to be generally, you know, you tend to be higher energy, you tend to be more higher energy, you tend to be more higher energy, you tend to be more either social or you really understand a either social or you really understand a either social or you really understand a specific problem, right? And you see a specific problem, right? And you see a specific problem, right? And you see a unique take on it. unique take on it. unique take on it. But then But then But then going into that and when you go start to going into that and when you go start to going into that and when you go start to actually implement that and try to build actually implement that and try to build actually implement that and try to build that business, who you need to be that business, who you need to be that business, who you need to be changes. changes. changes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And and that constant change >> And and that constant change >> And and that constant change I think is a positive thing with I think is a positive thing with I think is a positive thing with entrepreneurs. It's the kind of thing entrepreneurs. It's the kind of thing entrepreneurs. It's the kind of thing you probably have to have, but it's also you probably have to have, but it's also you probably have to have, but it's also the thing that I think leads a lot of the thing that I think leads a lot of the thing that I think leads a lot of them to not be great at operating.

them to not be great at operating. them to not be great at operating. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And like figuring out, how do you not >> And like figuring out, how do you not >> And like figuring out, how do you not lose your soul while learning how to lose your soul while learning how to lose your soul while learning how to become a better operator? become a better operator? become a better operator? That that I think is a place where a lot That that I think is a place where a lot That that I think is a place where a lot of people kind of fall out of love with of people kind of fall out of love with of people kind of fall out of love with with being an entrepreneur and running with being an entrepreneur and running with being an entrepreneur and running their own business. their own business. their own business. Do you ever have moments like that, or Do you ever have moments like that, or Do you ever have moments like that, or did your did the people around you, did did your did the people around you, did did your did the people around you, did you see them having moments like that? you see them having moments like that? you see them having moments like that? >> Most definitely, Matt. Most definitely. >> Most definitely, Matt. Most definitely. >> Most definitely, Matt. Most definitely. I think you have two classic types of I think you have two classic types of I think you have two classic types of entrepreneurs. You have the rainmakers, entrepreneurs. You have the rainmakers, entrepreneurs. You have the rainmakers, who are those sales-oriented, who are those sales-oriented, who are those sales-oriented, gregarious, outgoing, love their gregarious, outgoing, love their gregarious, outgoing, love their customers, and hold that customer list customers, and hold that customer list customers, and hold that customer list tight to the chest, right? They're going tight to the chest, right? They're going tight to the chest, right? They're going to make it rain, and nobody else can to make it rain, and nobody else can to make it rain, and nobody else can make it rain like they can. So, you make it rain like they can. So, you make it rain like they can. So, you know, give me give me give me, right? know, give me give me give me, right? know, give me give me give me, right? >> And then you have the entrepreneurial >> And then you have the entrepreneurial >> And then you have the entrepreneurial operators who are systems-minded, operators who are systems-minded, operators who are systems-minded, and they go, "Someone else needs to go and they go, "Someone else needs to go and they go, "Someone else needs to go make it rain, because I have a product make it rain, because I have a product make it rain, because I have a product or a service that I am really really or a service that I am really really or a service that I am really really good at, and I'm not going to outsource good at, and I'm not going to outsource good at, and I'm not going to outsource my secret sauce to empower other people my secret sauce to empower other people my secret sauce to empower other people to do it, cuz no one can do it as well to do it, cuz no one can do it as well to do it, cuz no one can do it as well as me." Both are control freaks.

as me." Both are control freaks. as me." Both are control freaks. #all entrepreneurs are control freaks. #all entrepreneurs are control freaks. #all entrepreneurs are control freaks. Own it, love it, get used to it. You Own it, love it, get used to it. You Own it, love it, get used to it. You just are, right? But the entrepreneurs just are, right? But the entrepreneurs just are, right? But the entrepreneurs who are successful who are successful who are successful are the ones that empower are the ones that empower are the ones that empower and delegate. and delegate. and delegate. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> empower other people, and when you hire >> empower other people, and when you hire >> empower other people, and when you hire people who are better than you to people who are better than you to people who are better than you to delegate your lesser strengths, delegate your lesser strengths, delegate your lesser strengths, that's when your business grows. that's when your business grows. that's when your business grows. Because you can't do it all. Because you can't do it all. Because you can't do it all. >> Right. There's confusion sometimes, >> Right. There's confusion sometimes, >> Right. There's confusion sometimes, right? As an entrepreneur, right? As an entrepreneur, right? As an entrepreneur, you feel like this is supposed to be on you feel like this is supposed to be on you feel like this is supposed to be on you, right? Like there's like a little you, right? Like there's like a little you, right? Like there's like a little bit of hero syndrome in it, it seems bit of hero syndrome in it, it seems bit of hero syndrome in it, it seems like sometimes, where you're like, like sometimes, where you're like, like sometimes, where you're like, "Oh, I can't just hire somebody for "Oh, I can't just hire somebody for "Oh, I can't just hire somebody for that." And and I think to me it's always that." And and I think to me it's always that." And and I think to me it's always been about can you figure out as an been about can you figure out as an been about can you figure out as an entrepreneur how to project your vision? entrepreneur how to project your vision? entrepreneur how to project your vision? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> in a way that not only gets people to >> in a way that not only gets people to >> in a way that not only gets people to understand it, but gets them to buy in. understand it, but gets them to buy in. understand it, but gets them to buy in. And that control freak part And that control freak part And that control freak part it's like it's like it's like that need for control, it's because it that need for control, it's because it that need for control, it's because it you know how clear the vision is in your you know how clear the vision is in your you know how clear the vision is in your head. head. head. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> But but the real success or failure >> But but the real success or failure >> But but the real success or failure comes in that communications piece. Can comes in that communications piece. Can comes in that communications piece. Can I Can Can I translate that that vision I Can Can I translate that that vision I Can Can I translate that that vision to others, right?

to others, right? to others, right? >> So true. You have to take your ego out >> So true. You have to take your ego out >> So true. You have to take your ego out of it so much. I believe that the of it so much. I believe that the of it so much. I believe that the entrepreneurs that I admired the most entrepreneurs that I admired the most entrepreneurs that I admired the most are the people that are the greatest are the people that are the greatest are the people that are the greatest servants to their team and to their servants to their team and to their servants to their team and to their company [clears throat] by getting out company [clears throat] by getting out company [clears throat] by getting out of the way and letting other people lead of the way and letting other people lead of the way and letting other people lead and drive and have different ideas than and drive and have different ideas than and drive and have different ideas than them. We are powerful as a team. them. We are powerful as a team. them. We are powerful as a team. >> No, but if you're controlling, if you >> No, but if you're controlling, if you >> No, but if you're controlling, if you have that control freak in you, like have that control freak in you, like have that control freak in you, like that's that's that's that's like the ultimate internal that's like the ultimate internal that's like the ultimate internal struggle, right? Like how do I let go struggle, right? Like how do I let go struggle, right? Like how do I let go and control at the same time? It's like and control at the same time? It's like and control at the same time? It's like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, you surround yourself with >> Yeah. Yeah, you surround yourself with >> Yeah. Yeah, you surround yourself with people that are not afraid to speak people that are not afraid to speak people that are not afraid to speak truth to you. They go, "You need to let truth to you. They go, "You need to let truth to you. They go, "You need to let this go." this go." this go." >> How did you do that? Like did Was Is it >> How did you do that? Like did Was Is it >> How did you do that? Like did Was Is it just that you're blessed with not having just that you're blessed with not having just that you're blessed with not having a lot of ego? Or did Were there Were a lot of ego? Or did Were there Were a lot of ego? Or did Were there Were there things that you learned or there things that you learned or there things that you learned or techniques that you developed to deal techniques that you developed to deal techniques that you developed to deal with that? with that? with that? >> Uh yeah, getting banged up and bruised >> Uh yeah, getting banged up and bruised >> Uh yeah, getting banged up and bruised in life will certainly kill your ego. in life will certainly kill your ego. in life will certainly kill your ego. And that's definitely That's definitely And that's definitely That's definitely And that's definitely That's definitely what happened to me. I think when you what happened to me. I think when you what happened to me. I think when you get knocked down enough, you know, the get knocked down enough, you know, the get knocked down enough, you know, the Holy Spirit goes, "Are you getting Holy Spirit goes, "Are you getting Holy Spirit goes, "Are you getting this?" Yes. Yeah. Mhm. That definitely this?" Yes. Yeah. Mhm. That definitely this?" Yes. Yeah. Mhm. That definitely helps when your ego gets trashed. But I helps when your ego gets trashed. But I helps when your ego gets trashed. But I also made the best investment that I also made the best investment that I also made the best investment that I could have made in myself and my could have made in myself and my could have made in myself and my business and I hired a business coach business and I hired a business coach business and I hired a business coach early.

early. early. Even when I couldn't afford one. Even when I couldn't afford one. Even when I couldn't afford one. First thing I did. First thing I did. First thing I did. >> What Okay, so why why was that such an >> What Okay, so why why was that such an >> What Okay, so why why was that such an important early investment for you at important early investment for you at important early investment for you at the time? Not now that you look back on the time? Not now that you look back on the time? Not now that you look back on it and it was successful, but at the it and it was successful, but at the it and it was successful, but at the time, what made you say, "Okay, I I this time, what made you say, "Okay, I I this time, what made you say, "Okay, I I this is going to be pushing it, but it's the is going to be pushing it, but it's the is going to be pushing it, but it's the right thing to do. right thing to do. right thing to do. >> Because I couldn't break through the >> Because I couldn't break through the >> Because I couldn't break through the brick walls. I didn't have the answers brick walls. I didn't have the answers brick walls. I didn't have the answers to the questions that I needed. I was to the questions that I needed. I was to the questions that I needed. I was consuming data and information and consuming data and information and consuming data and information and reading books and I was hungry to reading books and I was hungry to reading books and I was hungry to succeed, but I knew that I didn't have succeed, but I knew that I didn't have succeed, but I knew that I didn't have all the answers and I knew that there all the answers and I knew that there all the answers and I knew that there were people that did because they were were people that did because they were were people that did because they were already successful doing the things that already successful doing the things that already successful doing the things that I aspired to do. So, even though I I aspired to do. So, even though I I aspired to do. So, even though I couldn't afford a business coach right couldn't afford a business coach right couldn't afford a business coach right out of the gate, I could at least get in out of the gate, I could at least get in out of the gate, I could at least get in a mastermind and listen to other people, a mastermind and listen to other people, a mastermind and listen to other people, right? Cuz that was less expensive. So, right? Cuz that was less expensive. So, right? Cuz that was less expensive. So, first you start with that mastermind or first you start with that mastermind or first you start with that mastermind or that group coaching and you're like, that group coaching and you're like, that group coaching and you're like, okay, all right, I can put this into okay, all right, I can put this into okay, all right, I can put this into practice, right? And you're taking your practice, right? And you're taking your practice, right? And you're taking your notes on your monthly webinars or notes on your monthly webinars or notes on your monthly webinars or whatever. And then you move into having whatever. And then you move into having whatever. And then you move into having your own coach. And And I think again, your own coach. And And I think again, your own coach. And And I think again, as you learn, humble yourself and as you learn, humble yourself and as you learn, humble yourself and implement things that people implement things that people implement things that people that you can't see the forest for the that you can't see the forest for the that you can't see the forest for the trees.

trees. trees. So, that business coach is the one that So, that business coach is the one that So, that business coach is the one that goes, "Have you looked at it from this goes, "Have you looked at it from this goes, "Have you looked at it from this perspective?" perspective?" perspective?" That's how I knew I had to have it That's how I knew I had to have it That's how I knew I had to have it because I was like, because I was like, because I was like, "I'm not making progress. And I'm not "I'm not making progress. And I'm not "I'm not making progress. And I'm not going to make progress until I get going to make progress until I get going to make progress until I get answers to these questions and there's answers to these questions and there's answers to these questions and there's someone out there that's already cracked someone out there that's already cracked someone out there that's already cracked this egg." this egg." this egg." >> That's huge. I mean, that's See, that's >> That's huge. I mean, that's See, that's >> That's huge. I mean, that's See, that's repeatable, right? Saying to yourself, repeatable, right? Saying to yourself, repeatable, right? Saying to yourself, uh I'm not failing because I'm uh I'm not failing because I'm uh I'm not failing because I'm incapable. incapable. incapable. I'm failing because I don't have the I'm failing because I don't have the I'm failing because I don't have the information and there's people who have information and there's people who have information and there's people who have it and I can just find them. The The it and I can just find them. The The it and I can just find them. The The mastermind thing is interesting because mastermind thing is interesting because mastermind thing is interesting because This is Sorry, this is a weird topic for This is Sorry, this is a weird topic for This is Sorry, this is a weird topic for me, too, because I'm constantly both me, too, because I'm constantly both me, too, because I'm constantly both acknowledging that this is a really acknowledging that this is a really acknowledging that this is a really valuable thing and also acknowledging I valuable thing and also acknowledging I valuable thing and also acknowledging I have no idea where to go and find the have no idea where to go and find the have no idea where to go and find the info. But like, everybody benefits from info. But like, everybody benefits from info. But like, everybody benefits from a mentor. It's just It's a business a mentor. It's just It's a business a mentor. It's just It's a business relationship, but it's not a customer relationship, but it's not a customer relationship, but it's not a customer relationship. It's somebody who you can relationship. It's somebody who you can relationship. It's somebody who you can learn But yeah, like finding those learn But yeah, like finding those learn But yeah, like finding those people, everybody benefits, but finding people, everybody benefits, but finding people, everybody benefits, but finding them is hard and the mastermind thing is them is hard and the mastermind thing is them is hard and the mastermind thing is kind of interesting cuz it can give you kind of interesting cuz it can give you kind of interesting cuz it can give you the zero to one feedback that you need. the zero to one feedback that you need. the zero to one feedback that you need. It doesn't have to be one-to-one. How It doesn't have to be one-to-one. How It doesn't have to be one-to-one. How did you find the right the right Did you did you find the right the right Did you did you find the right the right Did you have to try a bunch of them?

have to try a bunch of them? have to try a bunch of them? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I don't I >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I don't I >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. I don't I don't think we ever get anything right don't think we ever get anything right don't think we ever get anything right the first time. I mean, I as my the first time. I mean, I as my the first time. I mean, I as my grandmother from Oklahoma used to say, grandmother from Oklahoma used to say, grandmother from Oklahoma used to say, "Baby girl, a blind squirrel finds a nut "Baby girl, a blind squirrel finds a nut "Baby girl, a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while." So, you know, every once in a while." So, you know, every once in a while." So, you know, um I I was very blessed with a network um I I was very blessed with a network um I I was very blessed with a network um being a StoryBrand Guide, um I had um being a StoryBrand Guide, um I had um being a StoryBrand Guide, um I had access to a community of a few hundred access to a community of a few hundred access to a community of a few hundred people globally that I could ask who people globally that I could ask who people globally that I could ask who were also passionate about marketing. were also passionate about marketing. were also passionate about marketing. So, that was my first one. Um and then So, that was my first one. Um and then So, that was my first one. Um and then you branch out and you find people that you branch out and you find people that you branch out and you find people that have found community in other networking have found community in other networking have found community in other networking groups, maybe a chamber of commerce, groups, maybe a chamber of commerce, groups, maybe a chamber of commerce, maybe a industry-specific networking maybe a industry-specific networking maybe a industry-specific networking group, uh maybe a geocentric net- group, uh maybe a geocentric net- group, uh maybe a geocentric net- networking group, um people that share networking group, um people that share networking group, um people that share common clients with you. Um so, you're common clients with you. Um so, you're common clients with you. Um so, you're going to get different perspectives from going to get different perspectives from going to get different perspectives from different industry leaders that you can different industry leaders that you can different industry leaders that you can put into your own company. put into your own company. put into your own company. >> That's interesting. For those of us >> That's interesting. For those of us >> That's interesting. For those of us who've maybe gone to some of these who've maybe gone to some of these who've maybe gone to some of these networking events and not had a lot of networking events and not had a lot of networking events and not had a lot of success for whatever reason, I I don't success for whatever reason, I I don't success for whatever reason, I I don't want to try to want to try to want to try to pontificate on why people don't get a pontificate on why people don't get a pontificate on why people don't get a lot of value out of networking lot of value out of networking lot of value out of networking functions, but like was there functions, but like was there functions, but like was there is there a technique or a thing that you is there a technique or a thing that you is there a technique or a thing that you learned learned learned that that like helped you get actual that that like helped you get actual that that like helped you get actual value out of networking, like value out of networking, like value out of networking, like face-to-face networking events? Was face-to-face networking events? Was face-to-face networking events? Was there something you learned about that?

there something you learned about that? there something you learned about that? >> Yeah, not all of them are worth their >> Yeah, not all of them are worth their >> Yeah, not all of them are worth their salt. You're exactly right. salt. You're exactly right. salt. You're exactly right. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> of them are just a giant waste of time. >> of them are just a giant waste of time. >> of them are just a giant waste of time. Yeah, some of them are you're just like, Yeah, some of them are you're just like, Yeah, some of them are you're just like, "Why am I here?" Oh my gosh. Um I I "Why am I here?" Oh my gosh. Um I I "Why am I here?" Oh my gosh. Um I I think it's all about finding the right think it's all about finding the right think it's all about finding the right people and finding your niche and people and finding your niche and people and finding your niche and understanding who your ideal client understanding who your ideal client understanding who your ideal client target is. When you know that then it's target is. When you know that then it's target is. When you know that then it's easier to find a networking group that's easier to find a networking group that's easier to find a networking group that's going to help you. Um so, for me, you going to help you. Um so, for me, you going to help you. Um so, for me, you know, it was pouring into women's know, it was pouring into women's know, it was pouring into women's groups. Um groups. Um groups. Um we're very fortunate as female business we're very fortunate as female business we're very fortunate as female business owners in this day and age. I mean, we owners in this day and age. I mean, we owners in this day and age. I mean, we are front and center. We haven't always are front and center. We haven't always are front and center. We haven't always been. Ask my mom what it was like to be been. Ask my mom what it was like to be been. Ask my mom what it was like to be in the oil industry in the '80s, right? in the oil industry in the '80s, right? in the oil industry in the '80s, right? It's very different. Um but there are It's very different. Um but there are It's very different. Um but there are plenty of niche industries now plenty of niche industries now plenty of niche industries now that you can find, but I think you have that you can find, but I think you have that you can find, but I think you have to begin with what do I want to to begin with what do I want to to begin with what do I want to intentionally get out of this networking intentionally get out of this networking intentionally get out of this networking experience. If you go into it with that, experience. If you go into it with that, experience. If you go into it with that, then you automatically get more out of then you automatically get more out of then you automatically get more out of it. It either fulfilled your needs or it it. It either fulfilled your needs or it it. It either fulfilled your needs or it didn't. didn't. didn't. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. Now, if you are more introverted, and Now, if you are more introverted, and Now, if you are more introverted, and there's lots of, you know, we deal with there's lots of, you know, we deal with there's lots of, you know, we deal with all kinds of industries, so all over the all kinds of industries, so all over the all kinds of industries, so all over the map, you know, PR, recruitment, software map, you know, PR, recruitment, software map, you know, PR, recruitment, software is an obvious one, and I often find that is an obvious one, and I often find that is an obvious one, and I often find that founders founders founders tend to fall into one of two categories.

tend to fall into one of two categories. tend to fall into one of two categories. They are either social and a little bit They are either social and a little bit They are either social and a little bit more outgoing and really comfortable more outgoing and really comfortable more outgoing and really comfortable with that, whether they're on the sales with that, whether they're on the sales with that, whether they're on the sales side or not. They're just more side or not. They're just more side or not. They're just more comfortable going out and doing that. comfortable going out and doing that. comfortable going out and doing that. But on the other side of that are those But on the other side of that are those But on the other side of that are those who honestly are probably a little bit who honestly are probably a little bit who honestly are probably a little bit more like me, very introverted, and kind more like me, very introverted, and kind more like me, very introverted, and kind of they go to these things and it's of they go to these things and it's of they go to these things and it's there's there's like, "Okay, how do I there's there's like, "Okay, how do I there's there's like, "Okay, how do I get out of my own shell? How do I Like get out of my own shell? How do I Like get out of my own shell? How do I Like I'm great if you want to have a I'm great if you want to have a I'm great if you want to have a conversation about something meaningful, conversation about something meaningful, conversation about something meaningful, but if you want to have small talk, like but if you want to have small talk, like but if you want to have small talk, like I'm a pretty awkward guy. I'm just not I'm a pretty awkward guy. I'm just not I'm a pretty awkward guy. I'm just not good at that." good at that." good at that." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Uh no, it's really true. I like just >> Uh no, it's really true. I like just >> Uh no, it's really true. I like just follow I follow just enough obscure follow I follow just enough obscure follow I follow just enough obscure sports that I don't know what anybody's sports that I don't know what anybody's sports that I don't know what anybody's talking about in football, so I'm just talking about in football, so I'm just talking about in football, so I'm just like, "Yeah, but I can like, "Yeah, but I can like, "Yeah, but I can chat college basketball if you want." chat college basketball if you want." chat college basketball if you want." Yeah, nobody everybody just stares at Yeah, nobody everybody just stares at Yeah, nobody everybody just stares at me. They're like, me. They're like, me. They're like, >> "Curling? Do you have conversations >> "Curling? Do you have conversations >> "Curling? Do you have conversations about curling?" That is awkward. No, I'm about curling?" That is awkward. No, I'm about curling?" That is awkward. No, I'm just kidding. just kidding. just kidding. >> It would be, but I just know not to >> It would be, but I just know not to >> It would be, but I just know not to bring it up. bring it up. bring it up. >> Oh, okay. Well, sorry. See, epic fail >> Oh, okay. Well, sorry. See, epic fail >> Oh, okay. Well, sorry. See, epic fail right there. I just made it awkward. right there. I just made it awkward. right there. I just made it awkward. >> No, see, it's a great sport though, but >> No, see, it's a great sport though, but >> No, see, it's a great sport though, but it's really weird. Any sport that it's really weird. Any sport that it's really weird. Any sport that includes brooms is is a weird sport. includes brooms is is a weird sport. includes brooms is is a weird sport. >> I agree with that, right? Why would you >> I agree with that, right? Why would you >> I agree with that, right? Why would you do that for sport? [laughter] I just do that for sport? [laughter] I just do that for sport? [laughter] I just don't understand. don't understand. don't understand. >> I mean, you can do that for for you can >> I mean, you can do that for for you can >> I mean, you can do that for for you can get paid to do it probably a lot better get paid to do it probably a lot better get paid to do it probably a lot better than as a sport.

than as a sport. than as a sport. >> Yeah. Brooming? >> Yeah. Brooming? >> Yeah. Brooming? >> Yeah. As a career. >> Yeah. As a career. >> Yeah. As a career. >> Right. It's it's it's a little awkward. >> Right. It's it's it's a little awkward. >> Right. It's it's it's a little awkward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> Not very transportable. >> Not very transportable. >> Not very transportable. >> No. Now, day drinking, that's a sport I >> No. Now, day drinking, that's a sport I >> No. Now, day drinking, that's a sport I can get behind. Anyway. >> Texas. >> Texas. >> [laughter] >> Boy, howdy. >> Boy, howdy. Anyway, what were we saying? Anyway, what were we saying? Anyway, what were we saying? >> So, you know, you brought up ICP. I >> So, you know, you brought up ICP. I >> So, you know, you brought up ICP. I think one of the things that especially think one of the things that especially think one of the things that especially smaller businesses and entrepreneurs smaller businesses and entrepreneurs smaller businesses and entrepreneurs struggle with is they often have a very struggle with is they often have a very struggle with is they often have a very specific idea of who their customer is. specific idea of who their customer is. specific idea of who their customer is. It often looks like them. It often looks like them. It often looks like them. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And beyond that, they really don't know >> And beyond that, they really don't know >> And beyond that, they really don't know what the process is to figure out an what the process is to figure out an what the process is to figure out an ICP. ICP. ICP. Um how like I would love to hear both Um how like I would love to hear both Um how like I would love to hear both like how you learned that originally and like how you learned that originally and like how you learned that originally and then how if there's any tricks that you then how if there's any tricks that you then how if there's any tricks that you tell your clients like hey, this is tell your clients like hey, this is tell your clients like hey, this is where you start when you need to really where you start when you need to really where you start when you need to really figure out who your ICP is. figure out who your ICP is. figure out who your ICP is. >> Yeah. Well, in the beginning you're so >> Yeah. Well, in the beginning you're so >> Yeah. Well, in the beginning you're so hungry for revenue gen that you will hungry for revenue gen that you will hungry for revenue gen that you will take anything everyone and their dog. take anything everyone and their dog. take anything everyone and their dog. You're like, yep. I can do that. Yep, I You're like, yep. I can do that. Yep, I You're like, yep. I can do that. Yep, I will do that too, right? So, you don't will do that too, right? So, you don't will do that too, right? So, you don't really start with the ICP when you're really start with the ICP when you're really start with the ICP when you're doing a bootstrap startup, right? We're doing a bootstrap startup, right? We're doing a bootstrap startup, right? We're just hungry. We Yeah.

just hungry. We Yeah. just hungry. We Yeah. >> Okay. So, if I'm an entrepreneur and I'm >> Okay. So, if I'm an entrepreneur and I'm >> Okay. So, if I'm an entrepreneur and I'm just getting started and I've hung my just getting started and I've hung my just getting started and I've hung my shingle and I'm trying to get the third shingle and I'm trying to get the third shingle and I'm trying to get the third client, I shouldn't be worrying about client, I shouldn't be worrying about client, I shouldn't be worrying about ICP just yet. ICP just yet. ICP just yet. >> No. Get some revenue in the door. Never >> No. Get some revenue in the door. Never >> No. Get some revenue in the door. Never stop selling as as the founder of of stop selling as as the founder of of stop selling as as the founder of of Clinique said. I mean, you never stop Clinique said. I mean, you never stop Clinique said. I mean, you never stop selling, selling, selling, >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> right? Just sell. Just focus on revenue, >> right? Just sell. Just focus on revenue, >> right? Just sell. Just focus on revenue, right? Um but then once you have right? Um but then once you have right? Um but then once you have consistent revenue coming in your door, consistent revenue coming in your door, consistent revenue coming in your door, that's when you need to export that list that's when you need to export that list that's when you need to export that list from QuickBooks from QuickBooks from QuickBooks of your customer list, put it into chat of your customer list, put it into chat of your customer list, put it into chat GPT and say, "Analyze this for GPT and say, "Analyze this for GPT and say, "Analyze this for consistencies. Tell me what common consistencies. Tell me what common consistencies. Tell me what common threads exist in this database." threads exist in this database." threads exist in this database." And in so doing and by following several And in so doing and by following several And in so doing and by following several prompts, you can discover your ideal prompts, you can discover your ideal prompts, you can discover your ideal client profile or ICP. It does not have client profile or ICP. It does not have client profile or ICP. It does not have to be brain surgery. Now, I have been on to be brain surgery. Now, I have been on to be brain surgery. Now, I have been on multi-million dollar projects where we multi-million dollar projects where we multi-million dollar projects where we took over 60 years worth of data and we took over 60 years worth of data and we took over 60 years worth of data and we reverse appended it and heat mapped it reverse appended it and heat mapped it reverse appended it and heat mapped it and found the saturation levels and the and found the saturation levels and the and found the saturation levels and the different income levels and analytically different income levels and analytically different income levels and analytically applied and then cross-referenced the applied and then cross-referenced the applied and then cross-referenced the ideal target client with the ideal ideal target client with the ideal ideal target client with the ideal target product. You can do it on an target product. You can do it on an target product. You can do it on an enterprise level. But for the majority enterprise level. But for the majority enterprise level. But for the majority of your entrepreneurs out there that are of your entrepreneurs out there that are of your entrepreneurs out there that are doing a million dollars or less a year, doing a million dollars or less a year, doing a million dollars or less a year, QuickBooks and ChatGPT give you all the QuickBooks and ChatGPT give you all the QuickBooks and ChatGPT give you all the insights you need to at least start insights you need to at least start insights you need to at least start honing in your marketing messaging to honing in your marketing messaging to honing in your marketing messaging to solving your ICP's problems with your solving your ICP's problems with your solving your ICP's problems with your calls to action and your target

calls to action and your target calls to action and your target offerings. When you do that, then you're offerings. When you do that, then you're offerings. When you do that, then you're going to start to be known for that going to start to be known for that going to start to be known for that niche. Does that make sense? niche. Does that make sense? niche. Does that make sense? >> It does. I would cut to a quick plug to >> It does. I would cut to a quick plug to >> It does. I would cut to a quick plug to tell you that anytime you do have your tell you that anytime you do have your tell you that anytime you do have your ICP list narrowed down, there's a great ICP list narrowed down, there's a great ICP list narrowed down, there's a great place where you can go find their email place where you can go find their email place where you can go find their email addresses. It's called hunter.io. addresses. It's called hunter.io. addresses. It's called hunter.io. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> This is not a live read. I just decided >> This is not a live read. I just decided >> This is not a live read. I just decided that it was contextually relevant in that it was contextually relevant in that it was contextually relevant in this moment. this moment. this moment. >> My favorite platform, by the way, of all >> My favorite platform, by the way, of all >> My favorite platform, by the way, of all time. time. time. >> I would hope so. I would [clears throat] >> I would hope so. I would [clears throat] >> I would hope so. I would [clears throat] hope so. hope so. hope so. >> on. Yeah. >> on. Yeah. >> on. Yeah. >> But yeah, I think No, what you said is >> But yeah, I think No, what you said is >> But yeah, I think No, what you said is great. I I think this is one of the great. I I think this is one of the great. I I think this is one of the things that I hear from entrepreneurs a things that I hear from entrepreneurs a things that I hear from entrepreneurs a lot is like lot is like lot is like I don't know who my ICP is. I'm worried I don't know who my ICP is. I'm worried I don't know who my ICP is. I'm worried about getting started. Or I'm not sure about getting started. Or I'm not sure about getting started. Or I'm not sure like I've had three clients. They're all like I've had three clients. They're all like I've had three clients. They're all very different. I don't know which one very different. I don't know which one very different. I don't know which one is actually the ICP. Like there's is actually the ICP. Like there's is actually the ICP. Like there's sometimes it's not the industry they're sometimes it's not the industry they're sometimes it's not the industry they're in. Sometimes it's the kind of service in. Sometimes it's the kind of service in. Sometimes it's the kind of service provided and the specific challenge they provided and the specific challenge they provided and the specific challenge they have in the organ. I think often that have in the organ. I think often that have in the organ. I think often that gets lost in the ICP cuz everybody gets lost in the ICP cuz everybody gets lost in the ICP cuz everybody thinks, "Oh, it's like it's industry. thinks, "Oh, it's like it's industry. thinks, "Oh, it's like it's industry. It's revenue size." But it's not always It's revenue size." But it's not always It's revenue size." But it's not always that. And I imagine in the early days that. And I imagine in the early days that. And I imagine in the early days before you had that sort of an ICP before you had that sort of an ICP before you had that sort of an ICP defined, it probably was more around a defined, it probably was more around a defined, it probably was more around a problem either inside the org or outside problem either inside the org or outside problem either inside the org or outside of the org. I'm curious, did you find of the org. I'm curious, did you find of the org. I'm curious, did you find that it was more often one versus the that it was more often one versus the that it was more often one versus the other?

other? other? >> Um yeah, usually usually it was an >> Um yeah, usually usually it was an >> Um yeah, usually usually it was an outside the org problem, especially outside the org problem, especially outside the org problem, especially being in marketing, right? So, the being in marketing, right? So, the being in marketing, right? So, the problem was our website isn't working. problem was our website isn't working. problem was our website isn't working. The problem is our phone isn't ringing. The problem is our phone isn't ringing. The problem is our phone isn't ringing. The problem is The problem is The problem is um I don't know I I'm spending $100,000 um I don't know I I'm spending $100,000 um I don't know I I'm spending $100,000 in marketing a year and I don't in marketing a year and I don't in marketing a year and I don't understand why I'm getting a negative um understand why I'm getting a negative um understand why I'm getting a negative um ROI, right? So, I I think as you ROI, right? So, I I think as you ROI, right? So, I I think as you discover who is paying your bills for discover who is paying your bills for discover who is paying your bills for what services, that definitely narrows what services, that definitely narrows what services, that definitely narrows down your ICP. down your ICP. down your ICP. >> Yeah. I'm sure I'm sure you had a client >> Yeah. I'm sure I'm sure you had a client >> Yeah. I'm sure I'm sure you had a client at some point that wasn't a good fit. at some point that wasn't a good fit. at some point that wasn't a good fit. >> Just one? >> Just one? >> Just one? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> There you go. I was going to assume it >> There you go. I was going to assume it >> There you go. I was going to assume it was at least one. Surely it's got to be was at least one. Surely it's got to be was at least one. Surely it's got to be one. There has to be one in there one. There has to be one in there one. There has to be one in there somewhere. I'm sure everybody else is somewhere. I'm sure everybody else is somewhere. I'm sure everybody else is blissfully happy, but like blissfully happy, but like blissfully happy, but like >> Oh, sure. Yeah. We're not perfect. >> Oh, sure. Yeah. We're not perfect. >> Oh, sure. Yeah. We're not perfect. >> when you get that first one where you're >> when you get that first one where you're >> when you get that first one where you're like, "Okay, well, this just didn't work like, "Okay, well, this just didn't work like, "Okay, well, this just didn't work out." out." out." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you guys have like a good retro >> Do you guys have like a good retro >> Do you guys have like a good retro process for like because like I I know process for like because like I I know process for like because like I I know when I've spoken to entrepreneurs that when I've spoken to entrepreneurs that when I've spoken to entrepreneurs that are just like, "Gosh, I assumed are just like, "Gosh, I assumed are just like, "Gosh, I assumed that everything about that business is that everything about that business is that everything about that business is why that interaction between us failed."

why that interaction between us failed." why that interaction between us failed." And so they start almost like over And so they start almost like over And so they start almost like over indexing on an a counter or an anti ICP. indexing on an a counter or an anti ICP. indexing on an a counter or an anti ICP. Like, "Well, that one didn't work. Like, "Well, that one didn't work. Like, "Well, that one didn't work. So, none of them are probably going to So, none of them are probably going to So, none of them are probably going to work." Like, sometimes there can be an work." Like, sometimes there can be an work." Like, sometimes there can be an overreaction. Like, did you ever have overreaction. Like, did you ever have overreaction. Like, did you ever have that situation when somebody failed and that situation when somebody failed and that situation when somebody failed and you were like, you know, there's always you were like, you know, there's always you were like, you know, there's always that is it me moment? Um and how did you that is it me moment? Um and how did you that is it me moment? Um and how did you guys get through that? guys get through that? guys get through that? >> Yeah, I mean, it's an incredibly painful >> Yeah, I mean, it's an incredibly painful >> Yeah, I mean, it's an incredibly painful lesson for you and your team, right? I lesson for you and your team, right? I lesson for you and your team, right? I mean, you have to own your mistakes. And mean, you have to own your mistakes. And mean, you have to own your mistakes. And I'll tell you, we're not perfect. Um we I'll tell you, we're not perfect. Um we I'll tell you, we're not perfect. Um we we tell our clients, "We're not the we tell our clients, "We're not the we tell our clients, "We're not the perfect fit for everyone." We're going perfect fit for everyone." We're going perfect fit for everyone." We're going to tell you what not to do as much as to tell you what not to do as much as to tell you what not to do as much as what we tell you what to do with your what we tell you what to do with your what we tell you what to do with your marketing. And a lot of people don't marketing. And a lot of people don't marketing. And a lot of people don't want to hear that. Um but there are also want to hear that. Um but there are also want to hear that. Um but there are also just operational oversights. You when just operational oversights. You when just operational oversights. You when you miss the mark. you miss the mark. you miss the mark. Um and I think a client relationship in Um and I think a client relationship in Um and I think a client relationship in marketing is a lot like a dance because marketing is a lot like a dance because marketing is a lot like a dance because you can't do We can't do our job until you can't do We can't do our job until you can't do We can't do our job until the other person gets us the information the other person gets us the information the other person gets us the information that we need, right? So, when you're that we need, right? So, when you're that we need, right? So, when you're dancing, dancing, dancing, um the woman never takes her eyes off of um the woman never takes her eyes off of um the woman never takes her eyes off of the man. It's the man's job to do air the man. It's the man's job to do air the man. It's the man's job to do air traffic control and watch the dance traffic control and watch the dance traffic control and watch the dance floor. It's the woman's job to follow floor. It's the woman's job to follow floor. It's the woman's job to follow the non-verbal cues on the dance floor, the non-verbal cues on the dance floor, the non-verbal cues on the dance floor, right? By holding that strong frame, by right? By holding that strong frame, by right? By holding that strong frame, by pushing, by pulling, by tilting, you pushing, by pulling, by tilting, you pushing, by pulling, by tilting, you know, those kind of things. Can you tell know, those kind of things. Can you tell know, those kind of things. Can you tell I did some ballroom dancing for a time I did some ballroom dancing for a time I did some ballroom dancing for a time in my younger years.

in my younger years. in my younger years. >> yeah. Yeah, >> yeah. Yeah, >> yeah. Yeah, long long long >> time ago. Yeah. So, the point being, if >> time ago. Yeah. So, the point being, if >> time ago. Yeah. So, the point being, if you don't have that good client vendor you don't have that good client vendor you don't have that good client vendor communication, communication, communication, if you don't have trust established, if if you don't have trust established, if if you don't have trust established, if you aren't able to move that ball down you aren't able to move that ball down you aren't able to move that ball down the field, since we're talking about the field, since we're talking about the field, since we're talking about sports and it's football season in sports and it's football season in sports and it's football season in Texas, um I had to throw some kind of Texas, um I had to throw some kind of Texas, um I had to throw some kind of colloquialism in there, then you are not colloquialism in there, then you are not colloquialism in there, then you are not going to be successful. And there are going to be successful. And there are going to be successful. And there are some who will not communicate with you some who will not communicate with you some who will not communicate with you and will not give you what you need. And and will not give you what you need. And and will not give you what you need. And they will blame you for that. they will blame you for that. they will blame you for that. And they will say, "You didn't give me And they will say, "You didn't give me And they will say, "You didn't give me this." And it's like, "Well, yeah, but I this." And it's like, "Well, yeah, but I this." And it's like, "Well, yeah, but I have 16 emails where I asked you for have 16 emails where I asked you for have 16 emails where I asked you for it." it." it." You can't win them all. And so, you just You can't win them all. And so, you just You can't win them all. And so, you just have to take that real objective stance have to take that real objective stance have to take that real objective stance and go, "We suck at this. and go, "We suck at this. and go, "We suck at this. This is an area where we have let down This is an area where we have let down This is an area where we have let down five clients in the last month, and we five clients in the last month, and we five clients in the last month, and we can't do this service anymore." can't do this service anymore." can't do this service anymore." Or, you have to look at it and go, "Is Or, you have to look at it and go, "Is Or, you have to look at it and go, "Is there a way that we pivot and ask for there a way that we pivot and ask for there a way that we pivot and ask for information differently information differently information differently and maybe become more successful in this and maybe become more successful in this and maybe become more successful in this area?" You you really have to take the area?" You you really have to take the area?" You you really have to take the emotion out of it. Cry into your coffee, emotion out of it. Cry into your coffee, emotion out of it. Cry into your coffee, then put on your big girl panties and then put on your big girl panties and then put on your big girl panties and move on.

move on. move on. >> It's how I like to start every day. >> It's how I like to start every day. >> It's how I like to start every day. Yeah, it's uh Yeah, it's uh Yeah, it's uh I think it's I think it's important. One I think it's I think it's important. One I think it's I think it's important. One of the things that I remember you of the things that I remember you of the things that I remember you mentioned to me, I think it was on our mentioned to me, I think it was on our mentioned to me, I think it was on our first call, first call, first call, uh uh uh and you mentioned it earlier, you and you mentioned it earlier, you and you mentioned it earlier, you mentioned StoryBrand. Uh do you mind mentioned StoryBrand. Uh do you mind mentioned StoryBrand. Uh do you mind describing what that is and why that was describing what that is and why that was describing what that is and why that was relevant for you and your firm? relevant for you and your firm? relevant for you and your firm? >> Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. So, StoryBrand is >> Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. So, StoryBrand is >> Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. So, StoryBrand is a seven-part framework created by Donald a seven-part framework created by Donald a seven-part framework created by Donald Miller from um he's currently in Miller from um he's currently in Miller from um he's currently in Tennessee, but he's originally a Texas Tennessee, but he's originally a Texas Tennessee, but he's originally a Texas boy. Hey, Don. Um boy. Hey, Don. Um boy. Hey, Don. Um and what he did was he took the and what he did was he took the and what he did was he took the guesswork out of clarifying a company's guesswork out of clarifying a company's guesswork out of clarifying a company's message by applying the proven message by applying the proven message by applying the proven multi-million-dollar framework that all multi-million-dollar framework that all multi-million-dollar framework that all best-selling movies follow. Um Don was a best-selling movies follow. Um Don was a best-selling movies follow. Um Don was a great author before he became a great great author before he became a great great author before he became a great marketer and now a great speaker. But, marketer and now a great speaker. But, marketer and now a great speaker. But, what he found was that story telling is what he found was that story telling is what he found was that story telling is a sense making device. And when you are a sense making device. And when you are a sense making device. And when you are able to bring an audience into a story able to bring an audience into a story able to bring an audience into a story that pulls at the heart, that pulls at the heart, that pulls at the heart, then they pay attention to your brand.

then they pay attention to your brand. then they pay attention to your brand. And by becoming certified as a And by becoming certified as a And by becoming certified as a StoryBrand Guide, that really became the StoryBrand Guide, that really became the StoryBrand Guide, that really became the basis of my marketing firm. basis of my marketing firm. basis of my marketing firm. Um and I didn't initially set out to do Um and I didn't initially set out to do Um and I didn't initially set out to do that. I got certified while working for that. I got certified while working for that. I got certified while working for someone else and then applied it to that someone else and then applied it to that someone else and then applied it to that company, saw the fantastic results, and company, saw the fantastic results, and company, saw the fantastic results, and knew I could make a career out of it. knew I could make a career out of it. knew I could make a career out of it. So, StoryBranding your business allows So, StoryBranding your business allows So, StoryBranding your business allows you to use a seven-part framework to you to use a seven-part framework to you to use a seven-part framework to clarify your message, apply it to all clarify your message, apply it to all clarify your message, apply it to all your different marketing tactics, and your different marketing tactics, and your different marketing tactics, and usually they say that you see about a usually they say that you see about a usually they say that you see about a 10x return once you have followed the 10x return once you have followed the 10x return once you have followed the steps. steps. steps. >> It's super interesting because I'll tell >> It's super interesting because I'll tell >> It's super interesting because I'll tell you that's it's gotten so easy over the you that's it's gotten so easy over the you that's it's gotten so easy over the last 20 years with more and more last 20 years with more and more last 20 years with more and more technology to think about marketing technology to think about marketing technology to think about marketing from a analytical standpoint. To look at from a analytical standpoint. To look at from a analytical standpoint. To look at performance to treat all marketing like performance to treat all marketing like performance to treat all marketing like performance marketing. And to just look performance marketing. And to just look performance marketing. And to just look at the numbers and just at the numbers and just at the numbers and just AB test your way to perfection. And I AB test your way to perfection. And I AB test your way to perfection. And I think yes, it is true. There's lots of think yes, it is true. There's lots of think yes, it is true. There's lots of frameworks that allow you to sort of frameworks that allow you to sort of frameworks that allow you to sort of analyze your way to perfection. But I I analyze your way to perfection. But I I analyze your way to perfection. But I I feel like feel like feel like the piece that's missing the piece that's missing the piece that's missing is the part that is actually the most is the part that is actually the most is the part that is actually the most crucial, which is the fact that people crucial, which is the fact that people crucial, which is the fact that people make decisions. They make buying make decisions. They make buying make decisions. They make buying decisions through emotion.

decisions through emotion. decisions through emotion. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And >> And >> And not being able to capture that. And as not being able to capture that. And as not being able to capture that. And as And look, software companies are And look, software companies are And look, software companies are probably the worst at this. So, that's probably the worst at this. So, that's probably the worst at this. So, that's probably why it's top of mind for me. probably why it's top of mind for me. probably why it's top of mind for me. It's It's so easy get caught up in the It's It's so easy get caught up in the It's It's so easy get caught up in the tech. It's so It's so easy to get caught tech. It's so It's so easy to get caught tech. It's so It's so easy to get caught up in the solution. up in the solution. up in the solution. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That >> That >> That it's so you you lose sight of the fact it's so you you lose sight of the fact it's so you you lose sight of the fact that like the other person has a million that like the other person has a million that like the other person has a million messages they're going to see today. messages they're going to see today. messages they're going to see today. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And they're going to see a million new >> And they're going to see a million new >> And they're going to see a million new ones tomorrow. And like the way you cut ones tomorrow. And like the way you cut ones tomorrow. And like the way you cut through that is through that is through that is it's not just catering to emotions, but it's not just catering to emotions, but it's not just catering to emotions, but it's trying to tell a story. And I think it's trying to tell a story. And I think it's trying to tell a story. And I think that's that's that's the fact that you found that, applied it the fact that you found that, applied it the fact that you found that, applied it in one, but realized how that applies in one, but realized how that applies in one, but realized how that applies almost more broadly. Do you get the almost more broadly. Do you get the almost more broadly. Do you get the sense that that's because most brands sense that that's because most brands sense that that's because most brands struggle skip storytelling? Is it struggle skip storytelling? Is it struggle skip storytelling? Is it because like you get so close to it, it because like you get so close to it, it because like you get so close to it, it becomes really hard to take a step back becomes really hard to take a step back becomes really hard to take a step back and tell the story? and tell the story? and tell the story? >> Yeah, especially the technical aspects >> Yeah, especially the technical aspects >> Yeah, especially the technical aspects that or the technical industries like that or the technical industries like that or the technical industries like what you just said. I mean, we're what you just said. I mean, we're what you just said. I mean, we're working with an energy company out of working with an energy company out of working with an energy company out of California. We've worked with a mineral California. We've worked with a mineral California. We've worked with a mineral company, a mining company, a company, a mining company, a company, a mining company, a manufacturing company. How do you make manufacturing company. How do you make manufacturing company. How do you make that sound sexy and appealing?

that sound sexy and appealing? that sound sexy and appealing? I mean, when you are really into the I mean, when you are really into the I mean, when you are really into the tech, you have to very much dumb it down tech, you have to very much dumb it down tech, you have to very much dumb it down so that people will appreciate so that people will appreciate so that people will appreciate the solutions that you're bringing the solutions that you're bringing the solutions that you're bringing through your tech. And it's very through your tech. And it's very through your tech. And it's very difficult to get away from industry difficult to get away from industry difficult to get away from industry speak and appeal to the problem of that speak and appeal to the problem of that speak and appeal to the problem of that ideal customer, right? But when you do ideal customer, right? But when you do ideal customer, right? But when you do that, people care less about how you do that, people care less about how you do that, people care less about how you do it and lean into more of the fact that it and lean into more of the fact that it and lean into more of the fact that you can do it. So, it's more of leaning you can do it. So, it's more of leaning you can do it. So, it's more of leaning into that aspirational identity into that aspirational identity into that aspirational identity and simplifying how they do business and simplifying how they do business and simplifying how they do business with you, the more technical you are, I with you, the more technical you are, I with you, the more technical you are, I I think. I think. I think. >> You know, it's interesting. If you >> You know, it's interesting. If you >> You know, it's interesting. If you Do you think that generative AI Do you think that generative AI Do you think that generative AI is going to make it more or less is going to make it more or less is going to make it more or less important for like storytelling for your important for like storytelling for your important for like storytelling for your brand? brand? brand? >> I think generative AI is going to help >> I think generative AI is going to help >> I think generative AI is going to help with storytelling because it's going to with storytelling because it's going to with storytelling because it's going to help people to get out of their own way, help people to get out of their own way, help people to get out of their own way, but you are never going to replace the but you are never going to replace the but you are never going to replace the human connection um with technology. human connection um with technology. human connection um with technology. That's why people are going to pay more That's why people are going to pay more That's why people are going to pay more for strategy. They're going to pay more for strategy. They're going to pay more for strategy. They're going to pay more for that what we talked about earlier, for that what we talked about earlier, for that what we talked about earlier, that premium one-on-one connection that premium one-on-one connection that premium one-on-one connection because every single problem has three because every single problem has three because every single problem has three parts, parts, parts, philosophical, philosophical, philosophical, tangible, tangible, tangible, and aspirational.

and aspirational. and aspirational. And you got to touch on all three of And you got to touch on all three of And you got to touch on all three of those problems to get someone those problems to get someone those problems to get someone to identify with you. to identify with you. to identify with you. >> Yeah, that's interesting. I love it, >> Yeah, that's interesting. I love it, >> Yeah, that's interesting. I love it, Amber, it's always fun to talk to you. Amber, it's always fun to talk to you. Amber, it's always fun to talk to you. You remind me of uh things that I need You remind me of uh things that I need You remind me of uh things that I need to make sure I'm thinking about whenever to make sure I'm thinking about whenever to make sure I'm thinking about whenever we chat. Uh I think every time we talk I we chat. Uh I think every time we talk I we chat. Uh I think every time we talk I like go off and I just like stare at our like go off and I just like stare at our like go off and I just like stare at our website for a few minutes. website for a few minutes. website for a few minutes. I I it's so dry, you know? I'm That's I I it's so dry, you know? I'm That's I I it's so dry, you know? I'm That's always my takeaway with our stuff. I'm always my takeaway with our stuff. I'm always my takeaway with our stuff. I'm just I always feel like it's very dry, just I always feel like it's very dry, just I always feel like it's very dry, but uh no, this was really great. Um but uh no, this was really great. Um but uh no, this was really great. Um it's great to see you. And uh for it's great to see you. And uh for it's great to see you. And uh for everybody who's attending, I know we've everybody who's attending, I know we've everybody who's attending, I know we've already dropped some great great plugs, already dropped some great great plugs, already dropped some great great plugs, but uh tell them where they can find but uh tell them where they can find but uh tell them where they can find you. you. you. >> Yeah, find us online. Barbie on >> Yeah, find us online. Barbie on >> Yeah, find us online. Barbie on marketing.com. Find us on Instagram. marketing.com. Find us on Instagram. marketing.com. Find us on Instagram. Find us on Facebook. Find us on YouTube. Find us on Facebook. Find us on YouTube. Find us on Facebook. Find us on YouTube. We're more than happy to help. Um you We're more than happy to help. Um you We're more than happy to help. Um you can download a copy of our book in PDF can download a copy of our book in PDF can download a copy of our book in PDF format. You can get a copy of the format. You can get a copy of the format. You can get a copy of the entrepreneurial toolkit. We're here to entrepreneurial toolkit. We're here to entrepreneurial toolkit. We're here to serve. serve. serve. >> And if they want to go to Dallas, Texas >> And if they want to go to Dallas, Texas >> And if they want to go to Dallas, Texas to see face-to-face, what's the best to see face-to-face, what's the best to see face-to-face, what's the best next step? next step? next step? >> We'll get some great barbecue. So, just, >> We'll get some great barbecue. So, just, >> We'll get some great barbecue. So, just, you know, go to our website, fill out a you know, go to our website, fill out a you know, go to our website, fill out a form, say, "I want to have barbecue with form, say, "I want to have barbecue with form, say, "I want to have barbecue with Amber." And we'll talk. Amber." And we'll talk. Amber." And we'll talk. >> I love it. Well, and then I might have >> I love it. Well, and then I might have >> I love it. Well, and then I might have to take you up on that. I'm I'm a little to take you up on that. I'm I'm a little to take you up on that. I'm I'm a little barbecue poor right now.

barbecue poor right now. barbecue poor right now. >> Oh, let's go. >> Oh, let's go. >> Oh, let's go. >> let's do it. I need some Texas barbecue. >> let's do it. I need some Texas barbecue. >> let's do it. I need some Texas barbecue. Uh all right, Amber, absolutely Uh all right, Amber, absolutely Uh all right, Amber, absolutely wonderful. Thank you for for giving us wonderful. Thank you for for giving us wonderful. Thank you for for giving us uh part of your Monday. Appreciate it. uh part of your Monday. Appreciate it. uh part of your Monday. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me, Matt. Always a >> Thanks for having me, Matt. Always a >> Thanks for having me, Matt. Always a joy. Take care. joy. Take care. joy. Take care. >> See you. >> See you. >> See you. >> If you like what you heard, please like, >> If you like what you heard, please like, >> If you like what you heard, please like, subscribe, and tell even more of the subscribe, and tell even more of the subscribe, and tell even more of the Outbox community by visiting Outbox community by visiting Outbox community by visiting www.outbox.hunter.io.