Gmail AI Update 2026: How Google's Gemini Will Change Email Outreach Forever | Hunter.io

James Milsom: Welcome today's webinar. James Milsom: We're just letting people into the session. James Milsom: So for now, I would love to know where you guys are located right now. James Milsom: If you're in the U.S. are you covered under snow? James Milsom: If you're in Europe, is it sunny there? James Milsom: I'm out here in Virginia in the US and there's a lot of snow, and my dog is rarings. James Milsom: Go out and play in it. Matt Tharp: It's fun. Matt Tharp: You need to get out there and play in it with your dog. Matt Tharp: That's the best thing about snow, Fabio, is how ghastly is it ghastly in terms of snowfall or just coldness? Matt Tharp: Just temperature? Matt Tharp: Which is it? Matt Tharp: Or both. Matt Tharp: Hello, Marianne. James Milsom: How about Yuri? James Milsom: How is. James Milsom: How's the weather in Portugal? Rui Costa: Well, it's extremely windy because we have, like, I don't know, third storm in a row. Rui Costa: So we are getting very strong winds, like, 140 kilometers per hour, which has been fun, if you like to fly around the street.

James Milsom: Yeah, that's. Rui Costa: Yeah, that's a lot. James Milsom: Yeah. Matt Tharp: I imagine Portugal is like warm places in the US that are just unprepared for certain kinds of weather because it just doesn't happen often enough. Matt Tharp: Is that right? Rui Costa: Well, partially, Yeah, a little bit. Matt Tharp: You can tell New Englanders like us are really prepared for big snowfall because, like, you go to the store, and the parts of the store that are really busy are like. Matt Tharp: Like, everybody has the biggest thing of toilet paper in their cart. Rui Costa: So you do. Matt Tharp: Priorities. Matt Tharp: It's like, what are the things that you absolutely don't want to get snowed in without? Matt Tharp: And it's like toilet paper. Matt Tharp: And, you know, Duncan, it's like, let's get some Duncan and store it in the. Matt Tharp: In the refrigerator for a couple days. Matt Tharp: Although looking at the international quality of our. Matt Tharp: Of our audience so far, Dunkin probably isn't resonating with anybody. Matt Tharp: That's James. Matt Tharp: You're a big Duncan guy, aren't you?

James Milsom: I am a big Duncan guy. James Milsom: I mean, everyone who's. James Milsom: Who's attending can probably tell that I'm not from the States. James Milsom: So the chance to get a hand on a. James Milsom: On a good donut is not lost on me. Matt Tharp: That rare part of Virginia with a strong British accent, you're saying you're not from there? James Milsom: Yeah. Matt Tharp: Ever since the colonies, they just decided they're gonna hold tight to that accent no matter what. James Milsom: Yeah. James Milsom: Heading down the hat. Matt Tharp: One wine bottle storm, I've. Matt Tharp: Marianne, everybody I know in this area would tell you there is no such thing as a one wine bottle Storm. Matt Tharp: There's only cases. Matt Tharp: It's all measured in cases. Matt Tharp: All right. James Milsom: All right. James Milsom: Yeah. James Milsom: Yep. Rui Costa: That's. Matt Tharp: Okay. James Milsom: So let's do a little housekeeping before we get started. James Milsom: So I'm James, the head of marketing here at Hunter. James Milsom: Today I'm going to be moderating the session, so I'm going to be responding to your comments, gathering your questions, and kind of handing over to Matt and Rui to talk you through Google's Gemini update.

James Milsom: And really what that's going to mean for you in terms of email outreach. James Milsom: Just some housekeeping items. James Milsom: We do have a questions and a chat functionality down in the bottom right of your screen that you should be able to see. James Milsom: I would ask you to drop your questions into there. James Milsom: We have a good portion of time today dedicated to answering any of your questions about this update or anything else around your email outreach. James Milsom: We plan to go for about 50 minutes, so that will leave us about 10 to the hour. James Milsom: If you have any questions as you go along, please put in the comments section. James Milsom: But for now, I'm just going to share my screen and I'm going to hand over to Matt and Marie to talk you through this exciting update and what it's going to mean for you this year. Matt Tharp: Thank you, James. Matt Tharp: And as always, guys, this is. Matt Tharp: There is a Q and a portion. Matt Tharp: So even if it's not related, even if your questions are not related to the Gemini update, don't hesitate to drop them in questions. Matt Tharp: And we try to do our best to get to all of them in the. Matt Tharp: Not just in the chat, but also in the main questions area. Matt Tharp: Those are easy to find, by the way, so please use that.

Matt Tharp: And we're the hosts. Matt Tharp: There you are, Rui. Matt Tharp: You got to be first. Rui Costa: Hey, everyone, I can go in first. Rui Costa: So I'm Rui, based in Porto, Portugal, and I'm basically managing product and Hunter for the last almost two years now. Rui Costa: It's been fun ride. Matt Tharp: So all the product improvements that you guys have seen, all of the like, massive increases in sort of value and functionality, you have Rui to thank for that. Rui Costa: So. Matt Tharp: And also if you have like, really hard, deep, technical questions, please, he's your guy. Matt Tharp: Just load us up. Rui Costa: I'll make sure to forward them to the right people. Matt Tharp: We can play 10 minutes of stump rui at the end if you want. Rui Costa: That'll be good. Matt Tharp: That'll be good. James Milsom: You wanna. Matt Tharp: Yeah. Matt Tharp: Let's go to the agenda. Matt Tharp: So, as you know, for the kind of core here, there are some things that are changing in Gmail that are gonna affect all of us on both sides of the email sending game. Matt Tharp: And look, there's lots of inbox updates. Matt Tharp: Why does these matter? Matt Tharp: And we're going to talk about why this part is worth emphasizing why these updates are materially important to you, what you can do to adapt.

Matt Tharp: Listen, the great news is all the stuff that we've been learning and sharing with you guys over the last two years as we've done more and more research in the space, are proving to only be more true with AI. Matt Tharp: So that's great. Matt Tharp: It means it's not like we're going to turn you guys on your ears trying to spin you around in a new direction super quickly. Matt Tharp: This is all, I think, going to just reinforce the values that we've seen. Matt Tharp: And then lastly is the Q A is making sure we can address any interesting questions that you guys have about how you can get more out of Hunter, how you can be more successful with outreach, anything in those two categories. Matt Tharp: So let's start with what's actually changing. Matt Tharp: I'm assuming you guys have seen either our blog post or Google's blog post or maybe both. Matt Tharp: So we will summarize the key bullet points here and try to focus on the things that we think are really going to be impactful to you. Matt Tharp: Because like a lot of the stuff that's being announced in Gmail from Gemini is around writing and, you know, trying to actually do better, get better writing assistance in your process.

Matt Tharp: We're not going to focus on that because that ultimately is not going to be as big of an impact to you as the filtering and some of the other things. Matt Tharp: So those are the things. Matt Tharp: Let's, let's talk about what's changing. Matt Tharp: Again, if you haven't seen it yet, I highly encourage it. Matt Tharp: We can put the links here in Slack, but Google announced an update to Gmail in January earlier this year that is about Gemini being in Gmail. Matt Tharp: So that's been the announcement. Matt Tharp: If you haven't experienced it yet, then you're probably like me. Matt Tharp: It is not rolled out to everybody. Matt Tharp: Rui has experienced more of it than I have. Matt Tharp: And so it's important to note that they've announced it, but it has not impacted everybody yet. Matt Tharp: The kinds of things that they're rolling out are things that seem logical for Inbox, right? Matt Tharp: Things like summarization, especially for threads, which by the way is awesome because Google and Gmail need this. Matt Tharp: Threads get messy. Matt Tharp: So being able to summarize long email threads and give you essentially a summary at top so you don't have to Go through the entire thread.

Matt Tharp: That's really great. Matt Tharp: Whether it's one email or 10, there is a power searcher option. Matt Tharp: And maybe a better way to say this is they're basically integrating AI overviews into search in Gmail. Matt Tharp: And so the experience that you have on Google of searching and then seeing the AI overview first, just translate that experience to your inbox for search. Matt Tharp: Not necessarily a good or bad, it's just one of the changes that's coming and I think there's ways to think about how that impacts your outreach campaigns. Matt Tharp: There's the VIP filter. Matt Tharp: Again, I haven't experienced a lot of this yet other than the stuff that happened pre Gemini. Matt Tharp: And I think what we all experienced at that time in the email marketing space was that VIP priority list was really kind of your friends and family and everything else got put into a different tab. Matt Tharp: And so what we can expect is actually a finer grain on that with Gemini because it's going to be able to read emails and interpret better than keywords.

Matt Tharp: But at the same time it's kind of an evolution of the same feature, clutter filter, which I extremely happy about. Matt Tharp: I think every inbox has to have as much clutter filtration as possible. Matt Tharp: I get a lot of cold outreach, as you can imagine, given who I am and the company we are. Matt Tharp: I get, I don't know, about 100, maybe 115 pitches a day, which makes me a great source of what not to send to CEOs by the way. Matt Tharp: So if you're interested, let me know. Matt Tharp: And then Apple integration. Matt Tharp: So because Apple finally decided that it was better not to compete with everybody else at something they were clearly very bad at, they decided they're partnered with Google. Matt Tharp: Good for them. Matt Tharp: But what that also means is that the Apple based email experiences that you might be using, whether that's the Apple Mail product or Gmail on iPhone or iOS devices, it means those things are going to be updated as well. Matt Tharp: And so it's not just going to be the Google Gmail web based app.

Matt Tharp: This is going to impact all Gmail, the majority of Gmail users at some point. Matt Tharp: That's really important to know. Matt Tharp: So thinking about it as an AI gatekeeper is probably a good thing. Matt Tharp: I think it's pretty apropos. Matt Tharp: And also, by the way, if your inbox is anything like mine, it's not the worst thing in the world. Matt Tharp: Like this is not just like, oh no, we're all in trouble. Matt Tharp: Some of this is good. Matt Tharp: And so it's about tools and how do you use tools and how do you get leverage knowing how the tools work? Matt Tharp: So that's a lot about what we're going to talk about. Matt Tharp: Yeah. Matt Tharp: Why does it matter? Matt Tharp: Rui, you want to take over? Rui Costa: Yeah, absolutely. Rui Costa: So I think, as you've described, for me, the way I see this is that we are still to see a lot of this actually being rolled out. Rui Costa: For example, as you mentioned, you have not yet experienced some of the updates I already see on my account summarization piece within the email threads. Rui Costa: But all the changes that they are announcing are basically showing the direction that they want to go with the inbox in general, which seems to be along the lines of, whereas before, your inbox was basically a passive element, just a place where you drop the emails and then you as a human actually have to go through each individual email, each individual thread to understand what's there.

Rui Costa: This indicates these updates from Google will seem to show that the direction we are going is that now instead of having the human actually by default going through each individual emailing thread, you'll actually have an AI assistant that will summarize each thread and potentially with something that they mentioned in the blog post to be called Epic AI Inbox, actually summarizing your inbox and highlighting what's within your inbox, what matters the most, what needs your attention at that specific moment in time, and so on and so forth. Rui Costa: Which basically means that now we are moving from this passive inbox to a more active inbox, which basically means you need. Rui Costa: The inbox will decide for the user, like, what truly matters, what needs attention. Rui Costa: So this changes a little bit the mindset. Rui Costa: Now you are not just optimizing for email opens or email clicks or those fancy subject lines. Rui Costa: You are actually trying to optimize for trust and relevance and value that you deliver in your campaign or email sequences to your target audience.

Rui Costa: Because with that change, you have to think that the inbox is no longer the place where messages just land and sit there. Rui Costa: Essentially, the inbox will become a system that decides what actually deserves or not your intention. Rui Costa: So this basically means that you need to continue to do what we've been recommending the industry to do for a long time, which is make sure that you build short, highly tailored, highly focused lists so that you can make your email sequences super relevant for these users. Rui Costa: Those sequences where you just say on the first email that hey, I would love to have a call with you, and then on the second email you follow up asking for another call, and so on and so forth, they will just be deemed as very little value. Rui Costa: So when you go to this, when the recipient actually sees the summary of that strategy just sees a guy asking for four meetings. Rui Costa: So you need to make sure that your sequence actually builds up value.

Rui Costa: So you send some valuable content in the first message. Rui Costa: You actually send a white paper in the second email that will allow the summarization piece of the inbox to actually highlight this guy's trying to give you value about this and that the summary becomes very rich instead of the summary being this guy's trying to get a meeting with you. Rui Costa: So that will play a big difference in terms of how the user sorry how the recipient will receive your will perceive your email thread. Rui Costa: And again think about the more advanced the search becomes with Gemini or in general with any AI, let's say power email inbox. Rui Costa: The more your email threads are clear in terms of intent are clear in terms of value, the more likely it is that in the future when the user remembers that someone mentioned something that was now became interesting, it will make it much easier for the AI to find it because you are focusing on value and again not just trying to get for a call.

Rui Costa: And all of this actually sums up to and this is I believe the most challenging piece because it's still not rolled out for everyone. Rui Costa: So it's still not 100% clear how it will work. Rui Costa: But this AI inbox, the more value your sequence will have for sure the AI will highlight it more likely compared to very low value sequences. Rui Costa: And the more you bring this value, the more trust the AI will have in your sequence, the likelier it is that it will be raised for the user. Rui Costa: So I think the challenge if this direction that Google is showing does come to place is that not only you have to focus on building email sequences that are rich for the recipients, but actually you have to also focus on your email sequence to be training the AI, the inbox that is now AI power to actually understand what you're trying to accomplish and what's the value you're trying to give to your recipients which then again goes back into make sure your lists are small, make sure your sequences are super tailored for each of the recipients.

Rui Costa: Personalize as much as you can and focus on value and less so just pure pitching and asking for. Rui Costa: Yeah. Rui Costa: So if you go to a simple I already kind of covered this piece but a simple example is compare the case where you have email sequence with four messages. Rui Costa: On the first case you just say a I'm trying to sell this service and that service and I would love to have a call with you second email. Rui Costa: Have you seen my previous email? Rui Costa: I would love to chat. Rui Costa: Third email, you continue that momentum. Rui Costa: The summary of that for an AI assistant will just be this guy's trying to get a call. Rui Costa: If you compare that to a case where in the first email you send an industry report about something that is relevant for that recipient and then the second email you follow with your own white paper and then on the third email you add some additional value and then finally you ask for a meeting.

Rui Costa: Then the summary of that will be much richer than the previous case. Rui Costa: It will show very high level summary of the white paper you mentioned, the report you mentioned. Rui Costa: And then in the end it will say that yes, this sender is interested in having a call with you, but that already comes with a lot of context into why you should have that call with the recipient. Rui Costa: Which is so in a nutshell you should look at your sequence. Rui Costa: This was already the case by the way, but I believe that the AI assistant in the inbox is just make it super obvious, which is you should look at your sequence not as four individual emails, but actually a storyline that you are pitching to your recipients and you have to make sure that entire storyline is consistent, is providing value and is clear to the user. Rui Costa: So basically think of you need to look at your four emails and you need to think about how does this sum up? Rui Costa: What's the summary of these four emails?

Rui Costa: Is this what I'm trying to pitch for my recipients? Rui Costa: Is this how I'm going to engage with them? Rui Costa: And in a nutshell, I feel that this is again nothing new in terms of how you should write your emails, your email sequences, but it just reinforces the fact that personalization is key, sending value is key. Rui Costa: And in a nutshell it might be a heartache, but I think that this direction by Google, I don't think Gemini will kill cold email, but definitely it will help kill lazy cold email. Rui Costa: So those just lazy sequences where you just say I want a meeting, here's the link for you to book a slot with me won't work anymore. Rui Costa: They were not working before, but for sure that now they will become way much harder to get any kind of meaningful results. Matt Tharp: Well, it was like they worked just often enough to convince people they should keep doing it.

Matt Tharp: And I think the good news, honestly we really care for that. Matt Tharp: A we're equipping everybody with tools to create good engagement and B we want tools that filter out any email that's not doing that. Matt Tharp: And so the good news is I don't necessarily see this as like a universally bad thing or it's like, oh, it's just going to get harder to do cold email. Matt Tharp: I think what Rui said is great. Matt Tharp: It's going to be harder to do cold email badly and be successful with it. Matt Tharp: And like, that's not a terrible thing. Matt Tharp: But it does raise the bar for what we need to do to equip you guys and what you'll need to know in order to make sure that you're getting into the inbox. Matt Tharp: And so I think it just means, honestly, it's an opportunity to reset a little bit. Matt Tharp: What strategies work. Matt Tharp: Something that worked two years ago is almost certainly not likely to work anymore for two reasons. Matt Tharp: One, it's been used to death, probably, and B, we're getting a bit of an opportunity to reset.

Matt Tharp: I think, Rui, I thought you said it really well. Matt Tharp: It's almost like you have a brand new personal assistant and they don't really necessarily know how to filter things out through knowledge. Matt Tharp: They're not saying, oh, like I know this person, you don't want to talk to them. Matt Tharp: They're going to say, I think there's something about this email that's worth your attention and that's going to sit on top of your inbox now. Matt Tharp: And so knowing that this person has this digital assistant that's filtering things out based on what I think might sound good, it means there's an opportunity to adapt your strategy. Matt Tharp: And I think that's something we're all going to have to learn together. Matt Tharp: And we're going to focus our research on the data about what's working and what's not. Matt Tharp: So we can inform you guys. Matt Tharp: But like, it's an opportunity to rethink some of this. Matt Tharp: And if you've been focusing on quality over quantity, I think this just is an opportunity to double down on the benefits of that. Matt Tharp: Samantha. Matt Tharp: And then like, this is great. Matt Tharp: James, stay here for a second. Matt Tharp: But Samantha asked a question.

Matt Tharp: She says it sounds like it would be more beneficial to keep all prospecting emails under a single thread rather than composing a new email for each touch. Matt Tharp: Is that correct? Matt Tharp: So, first off, I don't have hard data handy to tell you definitively what the answer to that is. Matt Tharp: I can say that in some cases it's good to do one reply as like a nudge to bounce it back up. Matt Tharp: So it's part of the same thread. Matt Tharp: I think what we're going to need to learn together is does that mean two nudges is good? Matt Tharp: Or after the first Nudge, start a new email thread, basically start a new email. Matt Tharp: I think that's something that we get a little bit of a TBD on now because we don't really know what the AI filter is going to do to this yet. Matt Tharp: We know what its goals are, we know what its intentions are, but until we've all had it for a little while, and you know, it's Google, they're going to keep tweaking it, so we're going to need to figure out how to optimize for that. Matt Tharp: But what I think, Samantha, is that you should have all the data that you need in Hunter to be able to analyze the results and test this for yourself.

Matt Tharp: And I think that's really the encouraging thing for me is that this is an opportunity to go back and re experiment some things and figure out for yourself, for your audience, what's working and what's not. Matt Tharp: And this is a good opportunity to sort of revisit some of those decisions. Matt Tharp: If you're focusing on value, if you're focusing on delivering information that can be useful, if it's memorable. Matt Tharp: You know, one of the other things that I like is, as the slide says, if you're being, if you're proposing that you are answer to a problem, you'll never fully know if they have the problem or not. Matt Tharp: But at least when they do, if you've positioned yourself properly, it'll stick in the back of their head. Matt Tharp: And this is one of my favorite things about cold email. Matt Tharp: I've seen this work on people. Matt Tharp: I know. Matt Tharp: I got somebody emailed me about this like three months ago and I kind of liked what they had to say, but it wasn't a problem I was solving at the time. Matt Tharp: Now I am. Matt Tharp: Where was that thing that told me about this answer to the problem? Matt Tharp: The good news is Gemini in your inbox is going to make search better and it's going to make the answer to the problem easier to find for them.

Matt Tharp: Because what they'll hopefully remember is, oh yeah, I remember they pitched me and they had something about. Matt Tharp: It was financial forecasting software. Matt Tharp: Let me go to AI, you know, let me go to Google and search on this and it's going to pull up in my inbox. Matt Tharp: Hopefully the AI overviews are going to do a better job of surfacing that email. Matt Tharp: So I think that's not a terrible thing. Matt Tharp: We should leverage that. Matt Tharp: Let's, let's find ways with our campaigns to like, actually do that. Matt Tharp: The smaller the audience size is, the better that message is going to be. Matt Tharp: That's just true. Matt Tharp: We've always seen that to be true. Matt Tharp: I don't think that this changes that. Matt Tharp: If anything, it reinforces the value of it. Matt Tharp: Making sure you're speaking to a problem in a way that they understand so that they can evaluate whether or not they have that need or not. Matt Tharp: More critical than ever. Matt Tharp: And making sure you're adding things that could be helpful. Matt Tharp: I would say that we, over the last few years have seen an increasing strictness on the number of links, the amount of HTML in your email, like.

Matt Tharp: Like all of the things that you would need to teach a spam filter to look for because you can't read an email. Matt Tharp: The good news is a lot of that gets pushed off to the side because with Gemini, they can actually read the email. Matt Tharp: They can determine if there's any value there. Matt Tharp: And so they don't have to rely on spam filters that are dumb, that are just saying, well, if there's three or more links in the email, throw it away because it's clearly spam. Matt Tharp: That's all spam filters looking for pattern matches on things that might be Spanish. Matt Tharp: The good news is if something is actually reading that email, you're far more likely if there's content that's valuable to get through. Matt Tharp: And I think that's the area where it's like, okay, let's leverage the strengths of these systems and let's see if we can double down on those. Matt Tharp: Marianne, you said if you were adding things of value, reports, et cetera, I'm assuming they are mostly attachments. Matt Tharp: Don't attachments affect the deliverability of emails as well? Matt Tharp: Is it more likely that emails will get through if the attachment comes as a second email in the sequence? Matt Tharp: Great question. Matt Tharp: Good framing. Matt Tharp: First off, this is all new, so I think this is a little bit tbd and I want to be careful not to make it sound like this is definitive.

Matt Tharp: Yes, historically speaking, attachments would affect deliverability. Matt Tharp: I think we still need to treat that as a rule. Matt Tharp: But experiment to see if AI Overviews or AI Inbox is actually going to change the rules around that, because I think it's very possible that it might also to your question about first emails or second emails in the sequence, one thing I have seen people be successful with is an email that the first email says, I have this attachment, but I don't just want to dump attachments on you. Matt Tharp: Is this of interest and I will be happy to send it. Matt Tharp: That allows you to put the attachment in the second email. Matt Tharp: It also allows you to ask for a soft commitment in the first email, which is more likely to get a reply. Matt Tharp: I think things like that actually could position very well in an AI inbox to be more successful than what we've seen in the recent past. Matt Tharp: So, yes, I don't think so. Matt Tharp: The right answer is we need to find this out, all of us. Matt Tharp: The second is yes, I do think something like that strategy in the meantime would be a better way to bring that attachment in rather than on the first one.

Matt Tharp: James, I don't know. Matt Tharp: Do you. Matt Tharp: In any of the research we've done, have we looked attachments in a first email or second email? Matt Tharp: Is that something that we have data on yet? James Milsom: Well, we may have data coming in the next couple of weeks with the 2026 release of the state of cold email. James Milsom: So everyone be sure to look out for that email from me. James Milsom: We will have something along those lines, but you should always be thinking about asking for permission with these emails that you're sending. James Milsom: So, yes, the second email would be the right time to share that report, but you need to open the door. James Milsom: You need to knock on the door, Sorry. James Milsom: First to say, can I share this research with you before you send it? James Milsom: The simple interaction of your recipient in that first email to reply would send a positive signal to Gemini to say, okay, well, yeah, there's a relationship building with this person. Matt Tharp: And going to the next slide. Matt Tharp: James, thank you. Matt Tharp: I've always joked that this is like the boring part of outreach, the technical setup.

Matt Tharp: Nobody wants to hear about SPF and dkim, like, do it, forget about it. Matt Tharp: But the good news is it's just one more thing that Gemini will look at as evidence of trust. Matt Tharp: And so spam filters, which were kind of like a dumb unit to sort for this, Gemini is going to be a little bit more articulate. Matt Tharp: And so if you've done all the technical setup right, if your email, if you're validating your emails and so you're not just blasting 100 emails at a bunch of random email addresses in somebody's email server. Matt Tharp: If you're avoiding bounces, the good news is all of those things are only going to make you more trustworthy to the AI inbox. Matt Tharp: And as long as there's value and you look trustworthy, they don't really have an obvious reason to like sniff you out and push you off into a separate place. Matt Tharp: So the good news is you can already see how these technologies are in play at Google now. Matt Tharp: You can kind of get a sense for how to use them. Matt Tharp: And I think the technical basis, just basics, just become a requirement at this point, they should have been anyway.

Matt Tharp: But like this becomes even more valuable because it's just another way that Gemini is going to go. Matt Tharp: Let me check that box and say I looked at deliverability things and it looks good. Matt Tharp: So I think this just gets more important because it's almost like a set of checklists. Matt Tharp: It's like a checklist in a hard deterministic system, like a spam filter on an espresso. Matt Tharp: They have to create rules. Matt Tharp: And the rules would say three or more links, discard it, you know, if you can't verify the email, you know the domain, you know, discard it. Matt Tharp: Like there's a bunch of things that they don't try to like actually evaluate because they can't. Matt Tharp: It's a deterministic system. Matt Tharp: It's filters and rules. Matt Tharp: AI isn't, it's probabilistic. Matt Tharp: And so all you have to think about is if I put the right information in this email, what are all of the different things on my checklist that I can do to increase the probability of it getting through AI? Matt Tharp: And so because it's a probabilistic system, that actually means some of the hard and fast rules that we've all lived by.

Matt Tharp: We might want to go back and reevaluate some of those. Matt Tharp: We won't know because this is all still new. Matt Tharp: But like a couple months from now we should have some really concrete data to recommend. Matt Tharp: But get the technical basics right never goes out of style. Matt Tharp: You don't have to think about it a lot though. Matt Tharp: Just do it and then move on. Matt Tharp: James, do you mind moving to the things brew you want to talk about writing like you mean it. Rui Costa: Again, it goes back to what I mentioned before. Rui Costa: Like make sure you're talking about building, you're talking about you're being empathetic with the recipient in the sense that you are not just pitching, you're trying to identify a pain, you're to trying to identify what moves this recipient and from there he'll trust in you to pitch your solution. Rui Costa: So again, nothing new, it's just a reinforcement of that the more intelligent the inbox will become, the more this will be meaningful and the more you will have to make sure you're passing through that filter again.

Rui Costa: It's just going back. Rui Costa: It's not that it's going to kill cold email, it's just going to kill lazy cold email. Rui Costa: So you have to make sure you're not in that direction anymore. Matt Tharp: I. Matt Tharp: Let's see, is there anything automated? Matt Tharp: Yeah, I mean we can move on to the next one. Matt Tharp: I think the first bullet is really the most meaningful on that slide, by the way, which is like you said about empathy. Matt Tharp: If you understand your user or your recipient and the kind of problem they face and you can speak to that's probably 80% of it right there. Matt Tharp: And that's not like you can absolutely automate that. Matt Tharp: Like, I don't know how many of you, by the way, if you have please message in the chat or the questions, but I don't know how many of you have tried the AI writing assistant, whether it's ours or somebody else's. Matt Tharp: But we focus in our AI writing assistant on asking you the questions to feed a prompt that we know are the things that are going to speak to that empathy. Matt Tharp: And so what we've done is we've looked at all the best practices, we've looked at the research, and we've baked into our AI writing assistant the key things that we know you need to be able to answer for the AI to be able to tweak a message out of that looks authentic and genuine and is more likely to get read.

Matt Tharp: I'm not saying this because it's a feature we built. Matt Tharp: I'm saying this because I understand how they write spam filters. Matt Tharp: I think spending a little bit more energy on the creative and using AI writing is actually a much better way to get through the inbox now. Matt Tharp: It's much more important now than it has been even in the past when it was still important. Matt Tharp: The relative importance of it has gone up. Matt Tharp: If AI, because AI is actually looking at your emails almost like a person would reading the email to determine from the context if this is valuable. Matt Tharp: And then there's also all the spam filter rules. Matt Tharp: But I think the purpose of having Gemini inboxes is to try to not have this sort of dull tools be the thing that's determining what you see. Matt Tharp: It's trying to apply something that's more human, like. Matt Tharp: So the same way you would trick humans is the same way you would trick Gemini. Matt Tharp: And I don't mean trick in a negative sense, but like, there's ways that you can rethink some of that. Matt Tharp: But at the end of the day, if what you're saying sounds like it speaks to the customer, talks about a problem they might have, and offers some pathway to a solution, Gemini is going to read that and say, hey, is this a problem you're facing?

Matt Tharp: I don't know actually how Gemini's going to say it, but it might Say this is the summary on that. Matt Tharp: And I think that if you're writing a good, I mean, you know, you get emails from people all the time and you can imagine how AI might summarize that email. Matt Tharp: You can look at that and go, okay, I can tell kind of what a good email looks like from a bad email from that. Matt Tharp: Just while we're on this topic, Rui, do you know, I think this was a question from the chat as well. Matt Tharp: Do you know how Gemini is marking emails right now when it's about importance or not importance? Rui Costa: Oh, thank you. Matt Tharp: Thank you, James. Rui Costa: Yeah, so I read a few reports recently. Rui Costa: It's not clear what's changing there. Rui Costa: Like, okay, before it was a very deterministic rule. Rui Costa: It was basically based on the number of interactions you had with some email address. Rui Costa: But there are people that are reporting to have seen more and more emails going to the non important part of the flow.

Rui Costa: And this is apparently Gemini is doing something there. Rui Costa: So they are using some level. Rui Costa: Exactly how. Rui Costa: I think it's still too soon to tell. Rui Costa: We haven't yet seen answer that I'm convinced of. Rui Costa: With clear evidence that's the case. Rui Costa: I'm guessing they still rely on the older heuristics, but they now put Gemini to get some more logic into. Matt Tharp: Yeah, yeah, I would agree. Matt Tharp: And I think also Google is really good about this aspect of their technology and it's still going to be true with Gemini. Matt Tharp: They tweak it constantly. Matt Tharp: They look at results, they look at the first quarter or the first six months of results and then they make an algorithm change. Matt Tharp: That's how they've done it with Search Forever. Matt Tharp: It's how they've done it with all the Gmail filtering forever. Matt Tharp: There's no reason to suspect that's going to change. Matt Tharp: If anything, there's going to be a renewed emphasis on it because they have new tools to bring. Matt Tharp: So I think in terms of like how it happens right now and how it's going to happen over the next six months, we need to all keep an eye on that and experiment.

Matt Tharp: My guess is that some of the same challenges that have been true recently about more things getting marked as not important is going to continue to be true. Rui Costa: So. Matt Tharp: We'Ll have to see. Matt Tharp: But I feel like, by the way, if that was Justin who said that. Matt Tharp: Thank you, James. Matt Tharp: I don't know how well they ever dialed this in without AI. Matt Tharp: So I also want to be cautious about overly being enthusiastic about the prospects of improvement here because I think we just reached they tapped out on what they could do with prior technology and the guys at Google are going to go back and reassess, but you can change the weighting in an LLM and so there's no reason to suspect that they won't go in and adjust the weights on the algorithm that they have. Matt Tharp: That's. Matt Tharp: That's managing AI inbox. Matt Tharp: So like, I wouldn't honestly, I'll be honest, unless it's the person who works on the Gmail team in Gemini. Matt Tharp: Justin, I would probably be cautious about thinking anybody really knows the answer to that question right now.

Matt Tharp: See, sorry James, I got a little behind on the chats. Matt Tharp: Somebody made a Fabio asked a question. Matt Tharp: Rui, does AI make it even more important to compress email size or compress long form messages to be as short as possible? Rui Costa: Well, I was going to say no, but then it seems that I'm promoting large emails. Rui Costa: I don't. Rui Costa: AI will not change that. Rui Costa: The fact is that you will still need to make sure that your emails are not like very long texts and are to the point and valuable. Rui Costa: But AI will be able to go through that even if the email is longer, shorter than extract the value. Rui Costa: So it's like think of it as you're just throwing in text to this AI assistant that it will filter out whatever you're trying to convey. Rui Costa: The usual mistake we do as humans while either talking to human or in this case an AI filtered in your inbox is that we believe that more words actually convey more knowledge or more value, which is not necessarily the case.

Rui Costa: So we still need to be clear, concise and most of all focus on the value that we are trying to convey to the recipient. Rui Costa: That's all. Rui Costa: So I don't think there is a big change there. Rui Costa: But again, I don't want to make the statement that you should send very large emails. Rui Costa: Not at all. Rui Costa: It's just the recommendation still stands. Matt Tharp: The difference is in a deterministic spam filter, length is something that you can highlight. Matt Tharp: It's something you can put a rule in. Matt Tharp: The number of links is a thing. Matt Tharp: You can put a rule in the number of images. Matt Tharp: All of these are things that you build rules around that are very much black and white. Matt Tharp: And that's why some things that you care about still end up in spam. Matt Tharp: It's because they're not actually looking at all of that, they're just following some rules. Matt Tharp: So the good news is this is right. Matt Tharp: That's kind of the cool part of. Rui Costa: LLMs sentiment analysis which changes the way we look into that. Matt Tharp: Yeah, it changes that. Matt Tharp: Yeah.

Matt Tharp: So this is something that would have had a hard and fast rule up until maybe six months ago. Matt Tharp: And now with this change here in January, as this gets rolled out, I think more and more we're going to be able to reevaluate some of this. Matt Tharp: And I think the comments that Rui and I think James wrote in the blog post are really important to highlight, which is there are things that we know are hard and fast rules, and for now we should still treat those as true. Matt Tharp: We're also analyzing our own data and analyzing performance on these things to try to see if there is a shift. Matt Tharp: It doesn't mean there will be or there absolutely is, but it means there's an opportunity for one. Matt Tharp: Because as you introduce a probabilistic system, it allows you to change the way you do things pretty fundamentally. Matt Tharp: And I think everybody knows in email the problem with spam filters is that it's a dumb tool. Matt Tharp: It, you know, and so many things get trapped by it. Matt Tharp: This is the game. Matt Tharp: So I think that, yes, many of the policies that we've learned over the years are still true.

Matt Tharp: Cold writing shorter emails in our data tends to suggest a better reply rate. Matt Tharp: James, do you remember what the number of words in an email is where we see the tipping point in the data? James Milsom: I. Yeah, it's typically under 100 words. James Milsom: The more concise you can be, the more you can just get across what you're trying to say and as less copy as possible. James Milsom: You know, you got to think about. James Milsom: And really, Matt, you both said this in today's webinar. James Milsom: The more concise you can be and the more upfront you are. James Milsom: You got to remember that this is someone's inbox, that you're reaching. James Milsom: You need to respect that this is someone's inbox. James Milsom: You need to respect the nature of the dynamic of this interaction, which is you are coming to them from the cold to talk to them about something. James Milsom: So you need to be so concise and respectful of their time. Matt Tharp: Absolutely. Matt Tharp: Yasine asked a question here. Matt Tharp: The slide mentions testing HTML versus text.

Matt Tharp: Wouldn't the quality of the email test list impact the decision how many emails you recommend in the testing phase? Matt Tharp: Thank you, James. Matt Tharp: You see, do you mind clarifying the question? Matt Tharp: You say, wouldn't the quality of the email test list impact the decision about HTML versus text? Matt Tharp: I want to make sure I fully understand what you're, what you are asking in terms of how many emails you recommend in a testing phase. Matt Tharp: I think this is kind of standard statistical things. Matt Tharp: Right. Matt Tharp: The, the, if you can get to 500, that's a decent sample. Matt Tharp: If you can get to a thousand, that's a much better sample. Matt Tharp: And if you're trying to figure out if something really moves the needle or not, you know, if you send a list of, if you did to an A B test of two 100 recipient lists, I don't know if that's going to give you enough data. Rui Costa: Right. Matt Tharp: So I think yes, the quality of the list matters a lot, always does.

Matt Tharp: That's the most important initial factor. Matt Tharp: And then how many emails in terms of audience size. Matt Tharp: That really depends on how, on what you're testing. Matt Tharp: But if you don't mind clarifying in chat, I'll take a look at your clarification, make sure I understood the question properly. Matt Tharp: Anything to add to that, Rui? Rui Costa: Just the fact that we will very soon be able to help in those testing exercises. Rui Costa: Not disclosing anything, I don't think it's. Rui Costa: Shush, shush. Matt Tharp: But yeah, we're bringing a lot of functionality here into the email product that Rui is alluding to help you manage and measure more and more of these things. Matt Tharp: So you seen, I think, let me look at the chat here, but we may have lost Yasin. Matt Tharp: Look, I think the quality of the list is always the most important thing because the very first thing that an email server is looking for is whether or not you as a sender have sent it to a bunch of blind email addresses that aren't valid.

Matt Tharp: So the very most important thing is always going to be a verif, you know, is as valid a list as possible. Matt Tharp: And then after that's, you know, that's part of, I think the rules that we're figuring out. Matt Tharp: But in terms of testing, like, I don't know. Matt Tharp: Rui, do you think going down as low as 200 to 250 gives you enough statistical significance to know? Rui Costa: Again, it depends on the audience. Rui Costa: Right. Rui Costa: So if you are the person is very well identified, the recipients are very much similar among themselves, then you can go a little bit below that for sure. Rui Costa: But in general that's hard to achieve. Rui Costa: That's why you should always aim at logging. Matt Tharp: Okay. Matt Tharp: And Angelique asked a question. Matt Tharp: Go ahead. Rui Costa: Yeah, I was looking at. Rui Costa: Exactly. Rui Costa: Angelique. Rui Costa: Okay, question. Rui Costa: Precisely that one. Rui Costa: James. Rui Costa: Thank you. Rui Costa: And so were just debating this before the webinar actually.

Rui Costa: So right now it seems that this is being a stage rollout. Rui Costa: Not everyone is getting the same experience personally. Rui Costa: What I'm seeing in my Google account and devices, for example, on the browser on Gmail, I have a button that just says summarize this. Rui Costa: By the way, I have exactly the same button in Apple's email client, whereas in the. Rui Costa: So I do, as a user, I do need to go there and press that button to get the summary if I do the same thing in the mobile phone. Rui Costa: So I'm android user. Rui Costa: In the email app for Android, I already have the summary right up front without any user intervention. Rui Costa: And I believe. Rui Costa: And again, still too soon to tell what's exactly the direction they are having, but it clearly seems to be the case that they are moving into. Rui Costa: By default, you will have the AI summaries and the AI highlights to your inbox.

Rui Costa: So right now it's a bit tricky to answer specifically because I think they are doing the stage rollout, but that's the direction we are going right now. Matt Tharp: For many users, you have to click into the email and then ask it to summarize. Matt Tharp: So the percentage, you know, the probability that is impacting a lot of your recipients, you'd imagine is probably fairly low. Matt Tharp: I don't think a lot of us are navigating to an email and then asking AI to summarize it. Matt Tharp: That's not a common behavior pattern yet. Matt Tharp: Not if you look at the mass audience. Matt Tharp: Right. Matt Tharp: As the AI summaries get integrated more and more into the. Matt Tharp: Into the view of email, this changes a bit. Matt Tharp: And I think that's the piece that we'll need to see how this shape shakes out through the rollout. Matt Tharp: There's definitely some evidence that Rui has mentioned that he's experienced where you do see the summaries just straight up. Matt Tharp: That would make sense. Matt Tharp: I don't think anybody would look at something that you have to go to an email and then click to get a summary as being the.

Rui Costa: Yeah, exactly. Matt Tharp: As being the expected behavior of that. Rui Costa: Feature from the white perspective. Rui Costa: It doesn't make sense. Matt Tharp: It doesn't make sense. Matt Tharp: Nobody's going to build that. Matt Tharp: So also it's there today. Matt Tharp: Like technically you can do that already. Matt Tharp: You can go in and you can open the little Gmail or Gemini tab and you can do that. Matt Tharp: So, yeah, I think Rui's right. Matt Tharp: Like you can kind of deduce pretty clearly where this is going to go and summaries become more important and so putting value up front only becomes that much more valuable. Matt Tharp: Thanks for the question. Matt Tharp: I'm curious, Chuck. Matt Tharp: Sending cold emails will take significantly more time. Matt Tharp: Can you say why? Matt Tharp: Why you believe that? Matt Tharp: Maybe I'm miss. Matt Tharp: Maybe I missed the point. Matt Tharp: Do you mind either amending or just putting it in? Matt Tharp: Thank you. Matt Tharp: Chuck, I see you're typing in chat. Matt Tharp: Don't be nervous.

Matt Tharp: We're not all just sitting here waiting for you to finish typing, Chuck. Matt Tharp: Okay, great. Matt Tharp: It shouldn't take more time. Matt Tharp: All the automation features that we've built in to try to drive sequence automation on small lit like hopefully what you're taking away from this is not, oh, this is going to become very manual and this is going to become very slow and I'm going to have to do a lot of, you know, one to one eyeballing of things. Matt Tharp: That's not true. Matt Tharp: It does emphasize what you do earlier in the process of automation, like making shorter, smaller lists. Matt Tharp: It's true. Matt Tharp: If you were going to email 10,000 people, it would be easy to dump all of that into one list and just kind of blast it out. Matt Tharp: We know that's become less and less effective over the last two years and that's only going to be less effective after AI gets involved. Matt Tharp: Right. Matt Tharp: But breaking it down into smaller lists is something we've built a ton of capability around to try to make that easier and easier for you. Matt Tharp: Our goal for the functionality and for your user experience is that you're not, you shouldn't feel like, oh, if I'm taking a 10,000 person list and I'm going to have to break that into smaller lists, that the experience is X times whatever the effort was to create the first list, that's not what the experience should be like.

Matt Tharp: It should get easier and more efficient even to break down lists into sub lists. Matt Tharp: It's not an, it's not a multiplication effect on your time, it'll be increase it, but a percentage increase, not a multiplied increase. Matt Tharp: And this is an area where we continue to invest a lot of energy. Matt Tharp: So like Rui and I were joking earlier, there's a lot of functionality coming around this problem that's going to continue to be true all throughout the year. Matt Tharp: So I would say, if anything, Chuck, continue to provide feedback like I hope you are, which is if they, if there's an aspect of the experience that you think could be made easier, please share that with us so that we know where to focus. Matt Tharp: We look at every single part of the application all the time to try to figure out how we can improve the usability of it. Matt Tharp: And so your feedback goes directly into that. Matt Tharp: So please share more if you have ideas about that. Matt Tharp: Yasin also asked a follow up Question. Matt Tharp: Which is a great one. Matt Tharp: When sending cold emails to a large list, do you recommend using AI to generate unique content for each recipient?

Matt Tharp: So just blanketly answering your question, yes. Matt Tharp: I want to be careful about a couple points. Matt Tharp: Sending cold emails to a large list is just inherently more risky than breaking it into smaller lists, whether you use AI or not. Matt Tharp: And let me give you an example. Rui Costa: Why. Matt Tharp: You can actually use kind of human behavior in the way our brains work a little bit. Matt Tharp: Because that is sort of what LLMs were modeled after, although not perfectly. Matt Tharp: If you were going to write emails to people, let's say you're going to write emails or write messages to 100 people, a thousand people, maybe. Matt Tharp: Let's say a thousand people. Matt Tharp: And those thousand people are comprised of different job titles. Matt Tharp: You've got some marketing people in there, you've got some CEOs, maybe you've got some CTOs. Matt Tharp: You can imagine your ability to write that email in a way that's more relevant for one of them than the other is going to be easier if you're just talking to marketers, you're just talking to the CEO crowd, and you're just talking to CTOs. Matt Tharp: And so when you think about sending cold emails to a large list, the first thing you should be asking yourself is, what's the smallest reasonable version of this list that I can make that creates a similarity among the recipients?

Matt Tharp: Because if you want to create copy for an audience, the closer to each other that audience is, the better that copy will come across. Matt Tharp: That's true whether you use AI or not, but that especially becomes more true with AI, because what it means is the pattern is clearer. Matt Tharp: And so it has to. Matt Tharp: It has to conjure or hallucinate less information. Matt Tharp: Because if Rui and I have the same. Matt Tharp: It's less generic. Matt Tharp: Exactly. Matt Tharp: It could be more targeted. Matt Tharp: So the first thing to do when answering your question is like, yes, it is true. Matt Tharp: You can use AI, and it'll make that better. Matt Tharp: The best way is to segment that list down to a place where if you feel like you or somebody else or an AI had that list, they could write a more coherent email around it. Matt Tharp: The more constituents you add to an audience that are diverse, the broader the message has to be, the more generic the message has to be, and the less effective it becomes. Matt Tharp: And so, in a way, this is kind of standard copywriting rules.

Matt Tharp: It's just that you have an AI lever to pull, but it doesn't really change that aspect of it. Matt Tharp: It just means that it's easier to automate. Matt Tharp: And so what we've done in our AI writing that's built directly into our sequences. Matt Tharp: Not a plug, just clarifying that. Matt Tharp: You'll notice that our AI email writing assistant asks a series of questions rather than a prompt. Matt Tharp: And those series of questions are designed to extract the specific thing that AI needs to try to write the best email for that recipient. Matt Tharp: So if you do all of that and you create two separate audiences or three separate audiences for the different constituent groups, it's that much easier to automate and it's going to be that much less broad and generic. Matt Tharp: So I, especially when I'm using AI, I try to take a step back and I say, like, what would a human be able to do more easily? Matt Tharp: Or what could I give it to make it clearer for a person? Matt Tharp: Because if you can't explain it to a person, you're not going to be able to get good outcomes out of an AI. Matt Tharp: So I think, like, hopefully that answers it clearly. Matt Tharp: Yasine, you should still segment your list as small as possible, feed in as many custom variables into your data set as possible through enrichment, and then, yes, you should definitely take advantage of AI writing assistance, whether it's in our product or not.

Matt Tharp: Something I heard directly from the mouth of people on the Gmail team years ago, and it was a deep philosophy. Matt Tharp: So I believe that this will carry over to AI is that one of the things they look for from a sender is the similarity across different emails. Matt Tharp: So Gmail was already looking at the content of the email and was comparing it against other recipients in the business. Matt Tharp: And so whenever they could see that multiple people in an organization got the same kind of email, it was more likely to get flagged for spam. Matt Tharp: AI is actually only going to make that better and easier to do. Matt Tharp: And so I think knowing that's something Gmail has always cared about or the Gmail team has always cared about, I think they're just going to use Gemini to emphasize that in new ways. Matt Tharp: So hopefully that helps you seen. Rui Costa: So, so Nia just mentioned what just questioned what is a small list? Rui Costa: Is that like 20 people? Rui Costa: Is that like 100 people? Rui Costa: And I guess more towards the 20, but again, it depends on the similarity among them.

Rui Costa: Right. Rui Costa: So the. Rui Costa: It's not like an exact number. Rui Costa: Like the rule of thumb is, yes, 20, 25, 30, 40 people. Rui Costa: It's usually a good, very tailored list. Rui Costa: But actually what matters is how close are these people in terms of Persona. Rui Costa: Like, do this. Rui Costa: They have the same job titles, similar locations, similar pains, similar needs. Rui Costa: If that's the case, that's what you should be looking at. Rui Costa: But as a rule of thumb, yes, more towards the place. Matt Tharp: Yeah, that's why I say the smallest reasonable size. Matt Tharp: Because, like, if you have an audience of a million total, right, Your entire global audience is a million people. Matt Tharp: It's very possible that if you find SaaS founders of companies under 50 people who've raised a series A, like, you can set a bunch of criteria and then go back to that list and still find that CEO list is 2,000 people. Matt Tharp: And it's like, okay, if it's 2,000 CEOs of companies under 50 in the US on the west coast, like, you can imagine building that audience in such a way where it's still a reasonably large number, but the similarities of that audience make speaking to them easier.

Matt Tharp: You can be more deliberate and more specific and precise in your language. Matt Tharp: And that's the key. Matt Tharp: Think about the list size in a as an approximation of how crystal clear, how clear and precise you want your language to be. Matt Tharp: That's the. Matt Tharp: Those are the two levers that you're pulling to adjust. Matt Tharp: You're like, okay, well, if I make the list bigger, does that start to make my message more generic? Matt Tharp: That's the question you're asking as you do this. Matt Tharp: And so, like, the reason I bring that up, if you go into manufacturing and you're trying to send emails to Manu, to a manufacturing audience, and you mix it, maybe it's CEOs for manufacturing companies and CEOs of SaaS companies, I imagine you're going to speak to those two groups very differently. Matt Tharp: So if you need to take a list of 10,000 and split it into two 5,000 groups, that's clearly already a better list. Matt Tharp: And then if you take that 5,000 audience of CEOs and ask yourself, can I break the CEOs of tech companies down yet again? Matt Tharp: And you can then do it. Matt Tharp: Make the lists as small as you reasonably can get before you think, okay, this is ridiculous.

Matt Tharp: Like, the point is about messaging. Matt Tharp: It's not about. Matt Tharp: This, unfortunately, is not a science. Matt Tharp: We can't specifically point to something in the data and say all lists should be less than 50 people. Matt Tharp: That's just we. Matt Tharp: It's not that precise. Matt Tharp: What we can say is writing an email to 20 people is easier than writing an email to 50 people writing whether you use AI or not. Matt Tharp: And so don't think about the size precisely. Matt Tharp: Think about the audience similarities and the audience characteristics. Matt Tharp: And have you distilled that down to the most precise group you can? Matt Tharp: That should govern the size of the list more than anything. Matt Tharp: Sorry, I wish I could. Matt Tharp: I could just say 25, that would be great. Rui Costa: Sorry, Rudy, think the other way around. Rui Costa: Right, so it's more about how granular is your definition of the person you're trying to contact? Rui Costa: Does it include job title, location, past experience, current pains like industry and so on and so forth?

Rui Costa: The more attributes, let's say that define your Persona that you're trying to put on that list, the better. Rui Costa: That's for sure. Rui Costa: If that translates into 20 people list, 40 people is 100 people is. Rui Costa: That's secondary. Rui Costa: So you should focus on just making sure that person is super well defined. Rui Costa: And that's why the prospecting piece is the. Rui Costa: Is actually very important for the writing piece because the better you prospect, the better you segment your targets, the easier it will be for you to actually write the message that is meaningful for that specific. Matt Tharp: Thank you, Rui. Matt Tharp: I know it does sound sometimes like I over index on the creative writing part. Matt Tharp: That's. Matt Tharp: I don't know why, but that does sound like that as I describe it. Matt Tharp: But I thought. Matt Tharp: Yeah, Rui, that was a great ad. Matt Tharp: How are we doing, James on questions? James Milsom: We have one more question from Marco which I think is a great way to end today's webinar and I'll pop that up now on the screen.

Matt Tharp: Thank you. Matt Tharp: Can I ask about Ms. Copilot? Matt Tharp: yes. Matt Tharp: Do you think they will catch up for Ms. Email and looked. Rui Costa: Yes, yes. Matt Tharp: Yeah. Matt Tharp: Honestly, at this stage I think we can all pretty definitively say if somebody in the AI space does something, the rest are going to do the same thing. Matt Tharp: Like. Rui Costa: Yeah, change slightly the flavor here and there. Matt Tharp: But yeah, yeah, you can see this pretty clearly play out if you just compare OpenAI and Anthropic. Rui Costa: Right. Matt Tharp: With Claude. Matt Tharp: You see, just like there's some things where they may take harder policy changes or harder policy positions. Matt Tharp: Like I don't know if Anthropic is going to be in a hurry to add ads, but they'll be thinking about it. Matt Tharp: If OpenAI does it, they'll at least be thinking about it really strongly. Rui Costa: At least someone already opened the door for sure. Matt Tharp: Yeah, exactly. Matt Tharp: Exactly. Matt Tharp: Well, thanks. Matt Tharp: The questions were great.

Matt Tharp: Thank you everybody. Matt Tharp: Hope we got to all of them. Matt Tharp: If we missed anything, as you guys know, don't hesitate to email us. Matt Tharp: I'll put Rui's direct email address in the chat so you can make sure you get direct answers to questions. Matt Tharp: Yeah, no problem. Matt Tharp: No joking aside. Matt Tharp: Yeah, thanks for attending Rui. Matt Tharp: Great job. Matt Tharp: Thanks for being here. Matt Tharp: Appreciate it. James Milsom: Thank you, everyone. James Milsom: We'll we'll be in touch soon with next month's webinar. James Milsom: But for now, look out for an email in the next couple of minutes with a replay of today's session. James Milsom: Thanks, Matt. James Milsom: Thanks, Ri. Matt Tharp: Thanks, everybody. Matt Tharp: Good to see your name.