IoT Coffee Talk Webcast Episode 313: "AI Adoption" (Whose problem is it?)

[cheering] [cheering] >> Bravo. >> Bravo. >> Bravo. >> Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk, and that was >> Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk, and that was >> Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk, and that was terrible karaoke. terrible karaoke. terrible karaoke. Uh Uh Uh You you might not know the song. It's You you might not know the song. It's You you might not know the song. It's Mean Street. It's Mean Streets by Van Mean Street. It's Mean Streets by Van Mean Street. It's Mean Streets by Van Halen. Halen. Halen. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And uh oh my gosh, if you didn't show >> And uh oh my gosh, if you didn't show >> And uh oh my gosh, if you didn't show up, man, we would have nobody. What's up, man, we would have nobody. What's up, man, we would have nobody. What's up? up? up? >> Yeah, well >> Yeah, well >> Yeah, well Maybe I I don't know if you guys scared Maybe I I don't know if you guys scared Maybe I I don't know if you guys scared everybody, but yeah, I've been I've been everybody, but yeah, I've been I've been everybody, but yeah, I've been I've been a bit of a my I've been a bit of a my a bit of a my I've been a bit of a my a bit of a my I've been a bit of a my year, so year, so year, so uh as I will tell you in the in the prep uh as I will tell you in the in the prep uh as I will tell you in the in the prep call, it was pretty busy all Friday call, it was pretty busy all Friday call, it was pretty busy all Friday morning for a couple of months, but morning for a couple of months, but morning for a couple of months, but >> Yeah, I have a >> Yeah, I have a >> Yeah, I have a >> I've I've marked my calendar as not >> I've I've marked my calendar as not >> I've I've marked my calendar as not locked, non-negotiable. locked, non-negotiable. locked, non-negotiable. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, well, um that's what you have to >> Yeah, well, um that's what you have to >> Yeah, well, um that's what you have to You have to block out the time to jump You have to block out the time to jump You have to block out the time to jump on to IoT coffee talk. on to IoT coffee talk. on to IoT coffee talk. >> Exactly. Exactly. So, what did you guys >> Exactly. Exactly. So, what did you guys >> Exactly. Exactly. So, what did you guys been discussing in the past weeks? I been discussing in the past weeks? I been discussing in the past weeks? I haven't been able to catch up actually. haven't been able to catch up actually. haven't been able to catch up actually. >> You know, what everybody's talking about >> You know, what everybody's talking about >> You know, what everybody's talking about all the time, which is like all the time, which is like all the time, which is like AI AI AI AI Yeah, so but anyways, hey everyone, Yeah, so but anyways, hey everyone, thanks for joining. Remember thanks for joining. Remember thanks for joining. Remember to like, share, and comment.

to like, share, and comment. to like, share, and comment. Um, you know, we're doing this for fun. Um, you know, we're doing this for fun. Um, you know, we're doing this for fun. So, if you take us seriously, you're So, if you take us seriously, you're So, if you take us seriously, you're doing absolutely the wrong thing. Number doing absolutely the wrong thing. Number doing absolutely the wrong thing. Number one rule in this house is have fun, and one rule in this house is have fun, and one rule in this house is have fun, and we're just going to rant and rave. This we're just going to rant and rave. This we're just going to rant and rave. This is how we decompress, right? After a is how we decompress, right? After a is how we decompress, right? After a whole week of AI fatigue, I mean whole week of AI fatigue, I mean whole week of AI fatigue, I mean um um um it's just it's tiring, but this is how it's just it's tiring, but this is how it's just it's tiring, but this is how we vent. And out of this venting, we vent. And out of this venting, we vent. And out of this venting, believe it or not, comes out some very believe it or not, comes out some very believe it or not, comes out some very important important important and and and timely timely timely uh uh uh insights. You won't know that it's insights. You won't know that it's insights. You won't know that it's timely until you watch it timely until you watch it timely until you watch it 6 7 8 months from now. Actually, you 6 7 8 months from now. Actually, you 6 7 8 months from now. Actually, you know, it's funny because you know, this know, it's funny because you know, this know, it's funny because you know, this whole MaulBook thing, you talked about whole MaulBook thing, you talked about whole MaulBook thing, you talked about this this this long time ago. It was like long time ago. It was like long time ago. It was like um almost 7 or 8 months before MaulBook um almost 7 or 8 months before MaulBook um almost 7 or 8 months before MaulBook happened, right? I mean, you you stated happened, right? I mean, you you stated happened, right? I mean, you you stated it as kind of a joke.

it as kind of a joke. it as kind of a joke. Well, a potential Well, a potential Well, a potential ridiculous scenario that ridiculous ridiculous scenario that ridiculous ridiculous scenario that ridiculous people would do. people would do. people would do. And it happened. And it happened. And it happened. Right? Right? Right? It's crazy. So, kudos to you, man. It's crazy. So, kudos to you, man. It's crazy. So, kudos to you, man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's a great example, right? >> That's a great example, right? >> That's a great example, right? >> It's It's a good example, and and don't >> It's It's a good example, and and don't >> It's It's a good example, and and don't don't the audience take it wrong. I don't the audience take it wrong. I don't the audience take it wrong. I think that there's I'm actually running think that there's I'm actually running think that there's I'm actually running one of these things, on, I'm doing the one of these things, on, I'm doing the one of these things, on, I'm doing the proper way in your three different proper way in your three different proper way in your three different isolated boxes. But if you give the keys isolated boxes. But if you give the keys isolated boxes. But if you give the keys to your life to an artificial thing that to your life to an artificial thing that to your life to an artificial thing that can actually use it to get more things can actually use it to get more things can actually use it to get more things out of your life, what do you expect? out of your life, what do you expect? out of your life, what do you expect? >> Right, right. And and that's all we've >> Right, right. And and that's all we've >> Right, right. And and that's all we've been saying. We're not saying that AI is been saying. We're not saying that AI is been saying. We're not saying that AI is worthless or anything like that. The worthless or anything like that. The worthless or anything like that. The key lesson that we're trying to convey key lesson that we're trying to convey key lesson that we're trying to convey here or learnings that we have that here or learnings that we have that here or learnings that we have that we've accumulated that we're trying to we've accumulated that we're trying to we've accumulated that we're trying to share with everyone who gets overly share with everyone who gets overly share with everyone who gets overly excited about all this stuff is this excited about all this stuff is this excited about all this stuff is this stuff is typically really hard. The path stuff is typically really hard. The path stuff is typically really hard. The path to good is very difficult and very to good is very difficult and very to good is very difficult and very expensive and the potential for expensive and the potential for expensive and the potential for exponential damage more than exponential exponential damage more than exponential exponential damage more than exponential benefit is much higher, right? It's an benefit is much higher, right? It's an benefit is much higher, right? It's an asymmetrical thing and we're trying to asymmetrical thing and we're trying to asymmetrical thing and we're trying to help you know, help you know, help you know, technical communities, business technical communities, business technical communities, business communities, end users, even vendors communities, end users, even vendors communities, end users, even vendors understand this because understand this because understand this because >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> if you don't align with reality and you

>> if you don't align with reality and you >> if you don't align with reality and you invest in selling height, I guarantee invest in selling height, I guarantee invest in selling height, I guarantee you will not sell anything. you will not sell anything. you will not sell anything. And we say this because And we say this because And we say this because many of us on IoT Coffee Talk, we have many of us on IoT Coffee Talk, we have many of us on IoT Coffee Talk, we have sales experience. We've had to go out sales experience. We've had to go out sales experience. We've had to go out and we had to sell things. We have and we had to sell things. We have and we had to sell things. We have experience delivering, solutioning, um, experience delivering, solutioning, um, experience delivering, solutioning, um, having to be accountable to customers, having to be accountable to customers, having to be accountable to customers, right? We're we're not just right? We're we're not just right? We're we're not just pontificating based on, you know, pontificating based on, you know, pontificating based on, you know, something we read something we read something we read in business school. This is like field in business school. This is like field in business school. This is like field experience that we've had in the past experience that we've had in the past experience that we've had in the past like in Bill's case. I mean, dude, you like in Bill's case. I mean, dude, you like in Bill's case. I mean, dude, you have to deliver all the time in the gap have to deliver all the time in the gap have to deliver all the time in the gap the gap of the ugly, right? the gap of the ugly, right? the gap of the ugly, right? So, So, So, that's where we're coming from with this that's where we're coming from with this that's where we're coming from with this stuff and people who get that twisted, stuff and people who get that twisted, stuff and people who get that twisted, yeah, you You yeah, you You yeah, you You you're going to get hurt listening to you're going to get hurt listening to you're going to get hurt listening to us. us. us. It's going to be super uncomfortable for It's going to be super uncomfortable for It's going to be super uncomfortable for you. But you know what? At the end of you. But you know what? At the end of you. But you know what? At the end of the day, what's going to be even more the day, what's going to be even more the day, what's going to be even more uncomfortable is when you fail your uncomfortable is when you fail your uncomfortable is when you fail your investors, when you don't make your investors, when you don't make your investors, when you don't make your sales quotas, right? And then you lose sales quotas, right? And then you lose sales quotas, right? And then you lose your credibility because you you're your credibility because you you're your credibility because you you're trying to sell some ridiculous nonsense trying to sell some ridiculous nonsense trying to sell some ridiculous nonsense to a customer who will remember to a customer who will remember to a customer who will remember at some point and that you're at some point and that you're at some point and that you're ridiculous. You don't have discernment.

ridiculous. You don't have discernment. ridiculous. You don't have discernment. You don't know how to see beyond the You don't know how to see beyond the You don't know how to see beyond the hype and what and meet that customer hype and what and meet that customer hype and what and meet that customer where they are. You know, and it's funny where they are. You know, and it's funny where they are. You know, and it's funny because nowadays you hear a lot of because nowadays you hear a lot of because nowadays you hear a lot of companies, "Well, we're going to meet companies, "Well, we're going to meet companies, "Well, we're going to meet the customer where you are." No, you're the customer where you are." No, you're the customer where you are." No, you're not. If you're If you're still trying to not. If you're If you're still trying to not. If you're If you're still trying to sell ridiculous hype-driven nonsense, sell ridiculous hype-driven nonsense, sell ridiculous hype-driven nonsense, you are not meeting the customer where you are not meeting the customer where you are not meeting the customer where they are. Because most customers aren't they are. Because most customers aren't they are. Because most customers aren't even ready for any of that aspirational even ready for any of that aspirational even ready for any of that aspirational stuff. So, anyways. stuff. So, anyways. stuff. So, anyways. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Why you being >> Why you being >> Why you being >> Obviously, I had a really really >> Obviously, I had a really really >> Obviously, I had a really really stressful AI nonsense week. So, yeah. stressful AI nonsense week. So, yeah. stressful AI nonsense week. So, yeah. >> You've been on the range, man. >> You've been on the range, man. >> You've been on the range, man. In the trenches. Agents all around you. In the trenches. Agents all around you. In the trenches. Agents all around you. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Well, you know, I'm I'm trying I'm >> Well, you know, I'm I'm trying I'm >> Well, you know, I'm I'm trying I'm working with a lot of clients to figure working with a lot of clients to figure working with a lot of clients to figure out how to help them, out how to help them, out how to help them, you know, wade through this stuff. you know, wade through this stuff. you know, wade through this stuff. >> What is the biggest >> What is the biggest >> What is the biggest What is the biggest nonsense you heard What is the biggest nonsense you heard What is the biggest nonsense you heard this week? this week? this week? >> I posted about it. AI adoption. Why is >> I posted about it. AI adoption. Why is >> I posted about it. AI adoption. Why is that a problem for anyone?

that a problem for anyone? that a problem for anyone? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Whose problem is that? AI adoption. We >> Whose problem is that? AI adoption. We >> Whose problem is that? AI adoption. We have a have a have a >> What What does it mean, though? >> What What does it mean, though? >> What What does it mean, though? >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> I mean, that's a that's a it's a broad >> I mean, that's a that's a it's a broad >> I mean, that's a that's a it's a broad term, man. I mean, AI adoption. term, man. I mean, AI adoption. term, man. I mean, AI adoption. Okay, so you use chat GPT. Is that Okay, so you use chat GPT. Is that Okay, so you use chat GPT. Is that adopting AI? Um, you know, adopting AI? Um, you know, adopting AI? Um, you know, >> Yeah, it sort of it sort of is. But the >> Yeah, it sort of it sort of is. But the >> Yeah, it sort of it sort of is. But the thing is is that if thing is is that if thing is is that if adopting it for what what purpose? If adopting it for what what purpose? If adopting it for what what purpose? If you're adopting it like what we were we you're adopting it like what we were we you're adopting it like what we were we were talking about for the past few were talking about for the past few were talking about for the past few weeks um weeks um weeks um uh Dmitri is uh if you're using it as a uh Dmitri is uh if you're using it as a uh Dmitri is uh if you're using it as a drug, right? Um then there's nothing drug, right? Um then there's nothing drug, right? Um then there's nothing really great that comes out of it. I really great that comes out of it. I really great that comes out of it. I mean, you know, you falling in love with mean, you know, you falling in love with mean, you know, you falling in love with a AI chatbot. I'm sorry. That a AI chatbot. I'm sorry. That a AI chatbot. I'm sorry. That I mean, how is that healthy? I mean, how is that healthy? I mean, how is that healthy? Seriously, how's that going to help you Seriously, how's that going to help you Seriously, how's that going to help you with your social life? I mean, it's just I don't know. For me, I mean, it's just I don't know. For me, man, it's just man, it's just man, it's just >> Part of it though is >> Part of it though is >> Part of it though is is purpose is purpose is purpose I feel like I feel like part of it is is I feel like I feel like part of it is is I feel like I feel like part of it is is that we're looking at it from a that we're looking at it from a that we're looking at it from a practical perspective in terms of what practical perspective in terms of what practical perspective in terms of what problem are you trying to solve? All problem are you trying to solve? All problem are you trying to solve? All right, that's the first thing. And by right, that's the first thing. And by right, that's the first thing. And by doing so, you take the fun out of it.

doing so, you take the fun out of it. doing so, you take the fun out of it. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I'm I'm positive there are a ton >> I mean, I'm I'm positive there are a ton >> I mean, I'm I'm positive there are a ton of people that that listen to us and, of people that that listen to us and, of people that that listen to us and, you know, and those that are literally you know, and those that are literally you know, and those that are literally just having fun with it. Not thinking just having fun with it. Not thinking just having fun with it. Not thinking about the repercussions, not thinking about the repercussions, not thinking about the repercussions, not thinking about infiltration, not thinking about about infiltration, not thinking about about infiltration, not thinking about any of those types of things, are any of those types of things, are any of those types of things, are literally just having fun and let's see literally just having fun and let's see literally just having fun and let's see what I can create. what I can create. what I can create. >> Yeah, faffing >> Yeah, faffing >> Yeah, faffing yeah. yeah. yeah. >> Havoc. >> Havoc. >> Havoc. [ __ ] around and find out. [ __ ] around and find out. [ __ ] around and find out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But there we go again, we took the fun >> But there we go again, we took the fun >> But there we go again, we took the fun away. And I think that there's I think away. And I think that there's I think away. And I think that there's I think that there's a there's not even a fine that there's a there's not even a fine that there's a there's not even a fine line, there's a literal chasm between line, there's a literal chasm between line, there's a literal chasm between using AI for a for solving whether it be using AI for a for solving whether it be using AI for a for solving whether it be a business problem, a technical problem, a business problem, a technical problem, a business problem, a technical problem, or whatever it is or whatever it is or whatever it is um to the creatives that are like, "What um to the creatives that are like, "What um to the creatives that are like, "What can I do with this that's going to one, can I do with this that's going to one, can I do with this that's going to one, tell you know, allow people to see how tell you know, allow people to see how tell you know, allow people to see how creative I am by leveraging these tools creative I am by leveraging these tools creative I am by leveraging these tools um and and things of that nature." So, um and and things of that nature." So, um and and things of that nature." So, part of it part of me I'm I'm kind of, part of it part of me I'm I'm kind of, part of it part of me I'm I'm kind of, you know, if I step back and I look at you know, if I step back and I look at you know, if I step back and I look at it objectively, then I'll I'll be like, it objectively, then I'll I'll be like, it objectively, then I'll I'll be like, "Yeah, you guys have taken the fun out "Yeah, you guys have taken the fun out "Yeah, you guys have taken the fun out of it, man. This is supposed to be fun, of it, man. This is supposed to be fun, of it, man. This is supposed to be fun, but when you hear the business side of but when you hear the business side of but when you hear the business side of it and you hear what people are talking it and you hear what people are talking it and you hear what people are talking about and what they're saying, about and what they're saying, about and what they're saying, you got to call [ __ ] you got to call [ __ ] you got to call [ __ ] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and you know, and that's the And and and you know, and that's the And and and you know, and that's the thing is thing is thing is we've had to we had to we've had to we've had to we had to we've had to we've had to we had to we've had to deliver, you know, whether it's from the deliver, you know, whether it's from the deliver, you know, whether it's from the sales perspective, whether it's from the sales perspective, whether it's from the sales perspective, whether it's from the solution delivery perspective or product solution delivery perspective or product solution delivery perspective or product development development development standpoint, we've we've had to commit to standpoint, we've we've had to commit to standpoint, we've we've had to commit to being and we've we've been accountable being and we've we've been accountable being and we've we've been accountable for being successful. for being successful. for being successful. Uh you know, uh delivering value to the Uh you know, uh delivering value to the Uh you know, uh delivering value to the customer is how you meant you measure customer is how you meant you measure customer is how you meant you measure success. It's not tokens. How many success. It's not tokens. How many success. It's not tokens. How many tokens are you consuming? That's total tokens are you consuming? That's total tokens are you consuming? That's total nonsense, right? It's a distraction. Um nonsense, right? It's a distraction. Um nonsense, right? It's a distraction. Um and and that's really where I'm coming and and that's really where I'm coming and and that's really where I'm coming from, but you know, uh I mean, we have a from, but you know, uh I mean, we have a from, but you know, uh I mean, we have a lot of people who watch our show, right? lot of people who watch our show, right? lot of people who watch our show, right? reason or the another and I'd rather reason or the another and I'd rather reason or the another and I'd rather have people watching our show because have people watching our show because have people watching our show because they want to figure out where ground they want to figure out where ground they want to figure out where ground truth is rather than get um you know, a truth is rather than get um you know, a truth is rather than get um you know, a diet of exponential nonsense. There's diet of exponential nonsense. There's diet of exponential nonsense. There's plenty of that stuff. I mean, the all plenty of that stuff. I mean, the all plenty of that stuff. I mean, the all the the the you know, um you know, um you know, um and all all these responses that you get and all all these responses that you get and all all these responses that you get from these these chat from these these chat from these these chat that you know, these AI tools is that you know, these AI tools is that you know, these AI tools is nonsense average crap, you know?

nonsense average crap, you know? nonsense average crap, you know? Um I I I saw some folks putting out some Um I I I saw some folks putting out some Um I I I saw some folks putting out some content. Did you see one of my posts content. Did you see one of my posts content. Did you see one of my posts that kind of made fun of all these that kind of made fun of all these that kind of made fun of all these people making people making people making uh these diagrams and [ __ ] You know how uh these diagrams and [ __ ] You know how uh these diagrams and [ __ ] You know how easy that is? It and how thoughtless. easy that is? It and how thoughtless. easy that is? It and how thoughtless. There there's no thinking. And then the There there's no thinking. And then the There there's no thinking. And then the output is like, "Oh my god, this is like output is like, "Oh my god, this is like output is like, "Oh my god, this is like all this marketing material, right?" all this marketing material, right?" all this marketing material, right?" >> Well, I mean, but but okay, so again, to >> Well, I mean, but but okay, so again, to >> Well, I mean, but but okay, so again, to be fair, marketing is a creative be fair, marketing is a creative be fair, marketing is a creative exercise. exercise. exercise. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Technical marketing >> Technical marketing >> Technical marketing combines the two. combines the two. combines the two. And you should get something out of And you should get something out of And you should get something out of that. I've always thought that that. I've always thought that that. I've always thought that um um um what what what are these um what what what are these um what what what are these um infographics and stuff like that? I've infographics and stuff like that? I've infographics and stuff like that? I've always thought they were garbage. always thought they were garbage. always thought they were garbage. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I've always thought that, no matter >> I've always thought that, no matter >> I've always thought that, no matter where it came from. I'm like, that's where it came from. I'm like, that's where it came from. I'm like, that's garbage. You you know, you're you're you garbage. You you know, you're you're you garbage. You you know, you're you're you got all the garbage on one page, and got all the garbage on one page, and got all the garbage on one page, and that's all it is. that's all it is. that's all it is. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> You know, um >> You know, um >> You know, um you know, and when people want to do you know, and when people want to do you know, and when people want to do these taxonomies about, you know, who's these taxonomies about, you know, who's these taxonomies about, you know, who's here and who's there, I'm like, pay here and who's there, I'm like, pay here and who's there, I'm like, pay attention to that if you want. You know, attention to that if you want. You know, attention to that if you want. You know, I'm too busy with my head down trying to I'm too busy with my head down trying to I'm too busy with my head down trying to deliver on these things and trying to deliver on these things and trying to deliver on these things and trying to pick up the next customer.

pick up the next customer. pick up the next customer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean >> I mean >> I mean >> Or you know, or even just figure out who >> Or you know, or even just figure out who >> Or you know, or even just figure out who the the the the the the the best partners are to work with and the best partners are to work with and the best partners are to work with and you know, in your case, like, you know, you know, in your case, like, you know, you know, in your case, like, you know, suppliers, what what what technologies suppliers, what what what technologies suppliers, what what what technologies to actually use. to actually use. to actually use. >> Well, you know, I mean, there there >> Well, you know, I mean, there there >> Well, you know, I mean, there there there is absolutely something to be said there is absolutely something to be said there is absolutely something to be said about that, but that to me is a general about that, but that to me is a general about that, but that to me is a general part of business anyway, because if you part of business anyway, because if you part of business anyway, because if you believe that you and your solution are believe that you and your solution are believe that you and your solution are going to be the one throat to choke and going to be the one throat to choke and going to be the one throat to choke and you're a startup, you're a startup, you're a startup, again, you're living in the valley of again, you're living in the valley of again, you're living in the valley of disillusionment disillusionment disillusionment and not facing reality. and not facing reality. and not facing reality. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> You're not. You're not going to be that >> You're not. You're not going to be that >> You're not. You're not going to be that one throat to choke. one throat to choke. one throat to choke. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> comes from I mean, that you know, it >> comes from I mean, that you know, it >> comes from I mean, that you know, it Google isn't even the one throat to Google isn't even the one throat to Google isn't even the one throat to choke because they have partners. choke because they have partners. choke because they have partners. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, so it I I I think I >> You know, I mean, so it I I I think I >> You know, I mean, so it I I I think I think it's it's I think there's a lot of think it's it's I think there's a lot of think it's it's I think there's a lot of a lot of failures in general business a lot of failures in general business a lot of failures in general business practice across the board, irrespective practice across the board, irrespective practice across the board, irrespective of the tech that you're using.

of the tech that you're using. of the tech that you're using. >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Dmitri? >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Dmitri? >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think, Dmitri? What have you been up to, man? What have you been up to, man? What have you been up to, man? By the way. By the way. By the way. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, well >> Yeah, well >> Yeah, well >> You just might be the most talkative >> You just might be the most talkative >> You just might be the most talkative >> Yeah, it's just the I need to rewarm up >> Yeah, it's just the I need to rewarm up >> Yeah, it's just the I need to rewarm up a little bit, so a little bit, so a little bit, so >> The more you get the more you got to get >> The more you get the more you got to get >> The more you get the more you got to get used to it. used to it. used to it. >> I mean I I well, I think I I told some >> I mean I I well, I think I I told some >> I mean I I well, I think I I told some of you I started a new position at the of you I started a new position at the of you I started a new position at the end of March, so it's the the beginning end of March, so it's the the beginning end of March, so it's the the beginning of the establishing your position and of the establishing your position and of the establishing your position and those kind of things. those kind of things. those kind of things. Uh but yeah, I mean the the the the Uh but yeah, I mean the the the the Uh but yeah, I mean the the the the point being is, you know, point being is, you know, point being is, you know, I think that, you know, companies and I think that, you know, companies and I think that, you know, companies and and this is also another abused term, and this is also another abused term, and this is also another abused term, but we we truly have to to to see the but we we truly have to to to see the but we we truly have to to to see the digital ecosystem nowadays. You're not digital ecosystem nowadays. You're not digital ecosystem nowadays. You're not the one that going to do everything. You the one that going to do everything. You the one that going to do everything. You you play your part in the value chain. you play your part in the value chain. you play your part in the value chain. We're actually learning that at the at We're actually learning that at the at We're actually learning that at the at the global level in all our economies. the global level in all our economies. the global level in all our economies. These are value chains right now and how These are value chains right now and how These are value chains right now and how can you influence the value chain is the can you influence the value chain is the can you influence the value chain is the most important thing. most important thing. most important thing. >> Yeah, that's true. That's That's very >> Yeah, that's true. That's That's very >> Yeah, that's true. That's That's very true. true. true. >> That's the fundamental thing. And >> That's the fundamental thing. And >> That's the fundamental thing. And whether it is using AI automation, all whether it is using AI automation, all whether it is using AI automation, all those kind of things, you know, those kind of things, you know, those kind of things, you know, yeah, it doesn't matter. The the problem yeah, it doesn't matter. The the problem yeah, it doesn't matter. The the problem I believe with AI is that and this is to I believe with AI is that and this is to I believe with AI is that and this is to your or your point, your or your point, your or your point, uh Leonard, is uh uh Leonard, is uh uh Leonard, is uh is uh is the scale because now you can is uh is the scale because now you can is uh is the scale because now you can you can have a much more important, you can have a much more important, you can have a much more important, dramatic, exponential impact.

dramatic, exponential impact. dramatic, exponential impact. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Because of the scale. That's really the >> Because of the scale. That's really the >> Because of the scale. That's really the problem. You know, before the first time problem. You know, before the first time problem. You know, before the first time you get to see It's a stupid analogy. you get to see It's a stupid analogy. you get to see It's a stupid analogy. The first time you get to you get a CRM The first time you get to you get a CRM The first time you get to you get a CRM or you can call more customers and you or you can call more customers and you or you can call more customers and you more on their phone and more on their more on their phone and more on their more on their phone and more on their ass, but you were still limited by ass, but you were still limited by ass, but you were still limited by human. Now you can I basically receive a human. Now you can I basically receive a human. Now you can I basically receive a dozen piece of crap emails. You know, dozen piece of crap emails. You know, dozen piece of crap emails. You know, I'm stopping accepting invites on I'm stopping accepting invites on I'm stopping accepting invites on LinkedIn because you you get It's LinkedIn because you you get It's LinkedIn because you you get It's harassment level now. And it's all AI harassment level now. And it's all AI harassment level now. And it's all AI generated. It's harassment level. generated. It's harassment level. generated. It's harassment level. And actually I've been saying that to And actually I've been saying that to And actually I've been saying that to some of some of you will recognize maybe some of some of you will recognize maybe some of some of you will recognize maybe you Probably not. You're not our you Probably not. You're not our you Probably not. You're not our audience. But I'm saying, "Guys, you audience. But I'm saying, "Guys, you audience. But I'm saying, "Guys, you know, you're second in my connection. know, you're second in my connection. know, you're second in my connection. This is the 10th email this week. Who do This is the 10th email this week. Who do This is the 10th email this week. Who do you think you are?" And I know you're you think you are?" And I know you're you think you are?" And I know you're not a person, you're an AI agent, but not a person, you're an AI agent, but not a person, you're an AI agent, but stop. stop. stop. >> Yeah, I mean, you know, now these people >> Yeah, I mean, you know, now these people >> Yeah, I mean, you know, now these people now I'm getting like even longer now I'm getting like even longer now I'm getting like even longer emails than before. emails than before. emails than before. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Where people were a little bit more to >> Where people were a little bit more to >> Where people were a little bit more to the point. I mean, that was like one of the point. I mean, that was like one of the point. I mean, that was like one of the things that I learned in consulting. the things that I learned in consulting. the things that I learned in consulting. It was a huge coaching point by one of It was a huge coaching point by one of It was a huge coaching point by one of my managers. I I used to write these my managers. I I used to write these my managers. I I used to write these really long-ass emails, and she told me really long-ass emails, and she told me really long-ass emails, and she told me one day one day one day took me in the room and and and told me, took me in the room and and and told me, took me in the room and and and told me, "Look, you know what? Try to be more "Look, you know what? Try to be more "Look, you know what? Try to be more concise because concise because concise because nobody reads the entire email." I'm nobody reads the entire email." I'm nobody reads the entire email." I'm like, "Really?"

like, "Really?" like, "Really?" And she goes, "No. And she goes, "No. And she goes, "No. Um you write too much. Um you write too much. Um you write too much. And just get to the point And just get to the point And just get to the point and since synthesize your thoughts." and since synthesize your thoughts." and since synthesize your thoughts." But now what's happening is you put But now what's happening is you put But now what's happening is you put intent in and this thing freaking goes intent in and this thing freaking goes intent in and this thing freaking goes bonkers and then creates a two-page bonkers and then creates a two-page bonkers and then creates a two-page email that no one reads. email that no one reads. email that no one reads. Um Um Um and you know, I like I was telling you and you know, I like I was telling you and you know, I like I was telling you um I think there's some companies now in um I think there's some companies now in um I think there's some companies now in the AR programs when analysts ask the AR programs when analysts ask the AR programs when analysts ask questions, what they do is they have a a questions, what they do is they have a a questions, what they do is they have a a chatbot chatbot chatbot in the background. Their chatbot in the background. Their chatbot in the background. Their chatbot providing answers, providing answers, providing answers, right? I I think that's what's happening right? I I think that's what's happening right? I I think that's what's happening because a lot of the responses just look because a lot of the responses just look because a lot of the responses just look the same and they're really freaking the same and they're really freaking the same and they're really freaking long. And I'm scratching my head long. And I'm scratching my head long. And I'm scratching my head wondering, "How did you write all this wondering, "How did you write all this wondering, "How did you write all this stuff?" And oh my god, I just asked a stuff?" And oh my god, I just asked a stuff?" And oh my god, I just asked a simple question and you guys are giving simple question and you guys are giving simple question and you guys are giving me me me you know, all kinds of irrelevant crap you know, all kinds of irrelevant crap you know, all kinds of irrelevant crap on top of it, right? So, um there's much on top of it, right? So, um there's much on top of it, right? So, um there's much more noise and that we're increasing the more noise and that we're increasing the more noise and that we're increasing the requirement for filters, right? And requirement for filters, right? And requirement for filters, right? And that's that's nonsense. Do you know what that's that's nonsense. Do you know what that's that's nonsense. Do you know what I'm saying?

I'm saying? I'm saying? >> And I think the the answer to that is >> And I think the the answer to that is >> And I think the the answer to that is that people are going to start putting that people are going to start putting that people are going to start putting other bots to read those bots. other bots to read those bots. other bots to read those bots. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> By the way, on on email, I always been >> By the way, on on email, I always been >> By the way, on on email, I always been applying three good the three golden applying three good the three golden applying three good the three golden rules of email for me. rules of email for me. rules of email for me. The first one is no more than 10 lines The first one is no more than 10 lines The first one is no more than 10 lines in the core. Now, you can have in the core. Now, you can have in the core. Now, you can have references. The second one is spend 25% references. The second one is spend 25% references. The second one is spend 25% of the time crafting the subject line. of the time crafting the subject line. of the time crafting the subject line. This is the most important part. And the This is the most important part. And the This is the most important part. And the third rule is be very cautious on the CC third rule is be very cautious on the CC third rule is be very cautious on the CC and on the BCC. and on the BCC. and on the BCC. >> I would put that number one. >> I would put that number one. >> I would put that number one. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, well, no, it's very well, that's >> Yeah, well, no, it's very well, that's >> Yeah, well, no, it's very well, that's the political aspect. That's why I put the political aspect. That's why I put the political aspect. That's why I put it at the end. But but yeah, but that's it at the end. But but yeah, but that's it at the end. But but yeah, but that's the most important thing to do. But the most important thing to do. But the most important thing to do. But yeah, but yeah, but yeah, but >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> And I usually I've been saying that for >> And I usually I've been saying that for >> And I usually I've been saying that for decades. If you send me an email whose decades. If you send me an email whose decades. If you send me an email whose subject area is urgent, this is the last subject area is urgent, this is the last subject area is urgent, this is the last one I'm reading. one I'm reading. one I'm reading. >> Man. >> Man. >> Man. >> Urgent why? >> Urgent why? >> Urgent why? >> I guess I guess I'm I mean, I don't >> I guess I guess I'm I mean, I don't >> I guess I guess I'm I mean, I don't know. I again, I'm one of those that know. I again, I'm one of those that know. I again, I'm one of those that like I I don't have a whole lot of time like I I don't have a whole lot of time like I I don't have a whole lot of time to be sitting there writing emails and to be sitting there writing emails and to be sitting there writing emails and [ __ ] So, I will [ __ ] So, I will [ __ ] So, I will email will just hit the email will just hit the email will just hit the Here's what I want to talk to you about.

Here's what I want to talk to you about. Here's what I want to talk to you about. Two lines. Two lines. Two lines. Give me a Give me a time a date and time Give me a Give me a time a date and time Give me a Give me a time a date and time to jump on a call. to jump on a call. to jump on a call. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Best VP. Done. I'm out. And and I mean, >> Best VP. Done. I'm out. And and I mean, >> Best VP. Done. I'm out. And and I mean, that's it. You know what I'm talking that's it. You know what I'm talking that's it. You know what I'm talking about. You know the context that I'm about. You know the context that I'm about. You know the context that I'm putting it in. I'm framing it. And you putting it in. I'm framing it. And you putting it in. I'm framing it. And you know that we need to have a know that we need to have a know that we need to have a conversation. So, what else does there conversation. So, what else does there conversation. So, what else does there need to be said? need to be said? need to be said? And if things go have gone wrong like I And if things go have gone wrong like I And if things go have gone wrong like I mean, we deliver and we deliver and we mean, we deliver and we deliver and we mean, we deliver and we deliver and we deliver and deliver and deliver and in certain instances like in you know, in certain instances like in you know, in certain instances like in you know, one one of the programs that were that one one of the programs that were that one one of the programs that were that we're working on right now, we should we're working on right now, we should we're working on right now, we should have started back in February. have started back in February. have started back in February. And And And and so, my guys were sitting there and so, my guys were sitting there and so, my guys were sitting there going, are we still doing this? I'm going, are we still doing this? I'm going, are we still doing this? I'm like, yeah, we got the PO, but like, yeah, we got the PO, but like, yeah, we got the PO, but you know, you know, you know, the way everything is structured, I'm the way everything is structured, I'm the way everything is structured, I'm not invoicing until we start. not invoicing until we start. not invoicing until we start. We told them how long it's going to We told them how long it's going to We told them how long it's going to take. And now because of their lack of take. And now because of their lack of take. And now because of their lack of execution, they're saying, can you execution, they're saying, can you execution, they're saying, can you compress your time? I was like, no.

compress your time? I was like, no. compress your time? I was like, no. No. Any email, lessons learned. This No. Any email, lessons learned. This No. Any email, lessons learned. This date, this time, we're going to talk. date, this time, we're going to talk. date, this time, we're going to talk. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because >> Because >> Because you know, we can't we can't continue to you know, we can't we can't continue to you know, we can't we can't continue to operate this way. So, I mean, there's operate this way. So, I mean, there's operate this way. So, I mean, there's there I think I think email TLDR is a there I think I think email TLDR is a there I think I think email TLDR is a real thing. real thing. real thing. Um so, I'm like, I'd rather get to the Um so, I'm like, I'd rather get to the Um so, I'm like, I'd rather get to the point than have you respond back and go, point than have you respond back and go, point than have you respond back and go, "What are you talking about?" "What are you talking about?" "What are you talking about?" >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Just be >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Just be >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Just be straight up. And you know, the thing is straight up. And you know, the thing is straight up. And you know, the thing is is the the less I mean, I think this is is the the less I mean, I think this is is the the less I mean, I think this is the the the the longer email, the the uh the longer email, the the uh the longer email, the the uh the less trust between parties. the less trust between parties. the less trust between parties. It's sort of like the correlation I see. It's sort of like the correlation I see. It's sort of like the correlation I see. And yeah. And yeah. And yeah. You know what I'm saying? Um You know what I'm saying? Um You know what I'm saying? Um it if I trust a party, it if I trust a party, it if I trust a party, I I I I just I just I just need to be All I need to do is be need to be All I need to do is be need to be All I need to do is be concise. I don't have to do a huge sales concise. I don't have to do a huge sales concise. I don't have to do a huge sales job, you know, adding a bunch of job, you know, adding a bunch of job, you know, adding a bunch of nonsense to sell a point. You know what nonsense to sell a point. You know what nonsense to sell a point. You know what I'm saying? There there's mutual trust, I'm saying? There there's mutual trust, I'm saying? There there's mutual trust, they just they they'll know what you're they just they they'll know what you're they just they they'll know what you're talking about. But the people that are talking about. But the people that are talking about. But the people that are that are trying to build trust that are trying to build trust that are trying to build trust And and this is the irony, they will And and this is the irony, they will And and this is the irony, they will send you a long-ass email and um send you a long-ass email and um send you a long-ass email and um and and and and then the recipient will typically and then the recipient will typically and then the recipient will typically not trust that person for sending that not trust that person for sending that not trust that person for sending that long-ass email. They you they'll just long-ass email. They you they'll just long-ass email. They you they'll just think you're a spammer. You know what

think you're a spammer. You know what think you're a spammer. You know what I'm saying? I'm saying? I'm saying? And so, um yeah, man. I don't know it's And so, um yeah, man. I don't know it's And so, um yeah, man. I don't know it's it it it it's just crazy it's crazy. it's just crazy it's crazy. it's just crazy it's crazy. >> We we we do we we do we do in societies >> We we we do we we do we do in societies >> We we we do we we do we do in societies well. You know, being being a man of few well. You know, being being a man of few well. You know, being being a man of few words is something that everybody has words is something that everybody has words is something that everybody has forgotten. forgotten. forgotten. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> The journey I would it makes sense >> The journey I would it makes sense >> The journey I would it makes sense because again, those things are so easy because again, those things are so easy because again, those things are so easy can so easy spit some stuff can so easy spit some stuff can so easy spit some stuff automatically. You give them a sentence, automatically. You give them a sentence, automatically. You give them a sentence, you get two pages. you get two pages. you get two pages. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then And then And then >> It's it's crazy. >> It's it's crazy. >> It's it's crazy. >> Well, you know, think about it. That >> Well, you know, think about it. That >> Well, you know, think about it. That isn't it crazy? Like you have like the isn't it crazy? Like you have like the isn't it crazy? Like you have like the uh the younger generation that have uh the younger generation that have uh the younger generation that have diminishing attention spans. Why are you diminishing attention spans. Why are you diminishing attention spans. Why are you going to use GenAI to create a longer going to use GenAI to create a longer going to use GenAI to create a longer email than you would be capable of email than you would be capable of email than you would be capable of writing or would even bother writing writing or would even bother writing writing or would even bother writing expecting that expecting that expecting that a younger generation person is actually a younger generation person is actually a younger generation person is actually going to read the freaking thing. going to read the freaking thing. going to read the freaking thing. >> You You Okay, so now it's it's so it's >> You You Okay, so now it's it's so it's >> You You Okay, so now it's it's so it's so [ __ ] ironic that you're saying so [ __ ] ironic that you're saying so [ __ ] ironic that you're saying that. And you recall last week when I that. And you recall last week when I that. And you recall last week when I said, "Hey, come here. Let me tell you said, "Hey, come here. Let me tell you said, "Hey, come here. Let me tell you something.

something. something. Don't [laughter] Don't [laughter] Don't [laughter] [ __ ] do it. I just get this email. [ __ ] do it. I just get this email. [ __ ] do it. I just get this email. Do you see the cups? Do you see the cups? Do you see the cups? >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah, it's your Yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah, it's your Yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah, it's your name, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's name, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's name, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's >> The cup has my name on one and his on >> The cup has my name on one and his on >> The cup has my name on one and his on the other. Oh, and by the way, I found the other. Oh, and by the way, I found the other. Oh, and by the way, I found True North Software Solutions on True North Software Solutions on True North Software Solutions on LinkedIn. I really like your product. LinkedIn. I really like your product. LinkedIn. I really like your product. I'm a marketer and product manager I'm a marketer and product manager I'm a marketer and product manager who has helped third people. Uh I'd love who has helped third people. Uh I'd love who has helped third people. Uh I'd love to learn more about True North Software to learn more about True North Software to learn more about True North Software Solutions. Wait a minute. Solutions. Wait a minute. Solutions. Wait a minute. >> Read the [ __ ] email. >> Read the [ __ ] email. >> Read the [ __ ] email. >> and you understand us, then you know >> and you understand us, then you know >> and you understand us, then you know what the [ __ ] we do. what the [ __ ] we do. what the [ __ ] we do. >> Yeah. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> People, stop doing this [ __ ] >> People, stop doing this [ __ ] >> People, stop doing this [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I know I I You know, you know it's >> But I know I I You know, you know it's >> But I know I I You know, you know it's not going to happen. It's Yeah, it's not going to happen. It's Yeah, it's not going to happen. It's Yeah, it's crazy. By the way, this is crazy. By the way, this is crazy. By the way, this is >> I mean, but how how do you think that >> I mean, but how how do you think that >> I mean, but how how do you think that this is a good idea? I can help you this is a good idea? I can help you this is a good idea? I can help you secure more calls. How? I work with secure more calls. How? I work with secure more calls. How? I work with local city and staff local city and staff local city and staff >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> I work with utilities. Are you going to >> I work with utilities. Are you going to >> I work with utilities. Are you going to go and introduce me to CEOs of these go and introduce me to CEOs of these go and introduce me to CEOs of these utilities and and utilities and and utilities and and and CIOs of these cities? And And I and CIOs of these cities? And And I and CIOs of these cities? And And I mean, how are you going to do that for mean, how are you going to do that for mean, how are you going to do that for me? Because if you can, damn it, let me me? Because if you can, damn it, let me me? Because if you can, damn it, let me let me bring you on. let me bring you on. let me bring you on. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it dissuades >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it dissuades >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it dissuades people from investing in building people from investing in building people from investing in building trusted relationships, right? Um you trusted relationships, right? Um you trusted relationships, right? Um you know, know, know, it's like what you're doing is just it's like what you're doing is just it's like what you're doing is just trying to build trying to build trying to build a pipeline, but when everyone's using a pipeline, but when everyone's using a pipeline, but when everyone's using these tools to create pipeline, it these tools to create pipeline, it these tools to create pipeline, it generates all this junk. generates all this junk. generates all this junk. You You You you know, you know, you know, you're not going to have a huge you're not going to have a huge you're not going to have a huge conversion rate, you know? Cuz the conversion rate, you know? Cuz the conversion rate, you know? Cuz the reason why you're using these tools is reason why you're using these tools is reason why you're using these tools is to improve your conversion rate, right? to improve your conversion rate, right? to improve your conversion rate, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, if everyone else >> Yeah. Well, I mean, if everyone else >> Yeah. Well, I mean, if everyone else starts using it, guess what? starts using it, guess what? starts using it, guess what? >> But you know, I think you >> But you know, I think you >> But you know, I think you >> nothing changes. >> nothing changes. >> nothing changes. >> Can we I mean, but here's the thing. It >> Can we I mean, but here's the thing. It >> Can we I mean, but here's the thing. It this is and I mean, I've done this I've this is and I mean, I've done this I've this is and I mean, I've done this I've gotten calls like this and I'm I'm like, gotten calls like this and I'm I'm like, gotten calls like this and I'm I'm like, where is my [ __ ] information out that where is my [ __ ] information out that where is my [ __ ] information out that people are calling me saying, "Hey, people are calling me saying, "Hey, people are calling me saying, "Hey, uh we'd like to we'd like So So I get uh we'd like to we'd like So So I get uh we'd like to we'd like So So I get one and I sometimes I'll entertain them one and I sometimes I'll entertain them one and I sometimes I'll entertain them just to rip them the [ __ ] up.

just to rip them the [ __ ] up. just to rip them the [ __ ] up. >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'll entertain the call. Hey, this >> Okay. I'll entertain the call. Hey, this >> Okay. I'll entertain the call. Hey, this is Bill. What's up? is Bill. What's up? is Bill. What's up? Hey, you know, I saw that you got this Hey, you know, I saw that you got this Hey, you know, I saw that you got this kind of business blah blah blah blah kind of business blah blah blah blah kind of business blah blah blah blah blah and we were wondering, I mean, what blah and we were wondering, I mean, what blah and we were wondering, I mean, what were you using to track your what are were you using to track your what are were you using to track your what are you using a CRM? Yeah, we're using you using a CRM? Yeah, we're using you using a CRM? Yeah, we're using HubSpot. Oh, really? Well, we got this HubSpot. Oh, really? Well, we got this HubSpot. Oh, really? Well, we got this product that can do this and I'm like, product that can do this and I'm like, product that can do this and I'm like, "Really? We built our own." "Really? We built our own." "Really? We built our own." Well, well, how does it work? I mean, it Well, well, how does it work? I mean, it Well, well, how does it work? I mean, it takes everything from the moment I'm takes everything from the moment I'm takes everything from the moment I'm having a meeting and I and I that having a meeting and I and I that having a meeting and I and I that meeting is recorded and it goes into meeting is recorded and it goes into meeting is recorded and it goes into HubSpot, it lines up everything, it HubSpot, it lines up everything, it HubSpot, it lines up everything, it spits out a time, it ages the the deal, spits out a time, it ages the the deal, spits out a time, it ages the the deal, and then at the time we close the deal, and then at the time we close the deal, and then at the time we close the deal, it tells us how much cost it cost us to it tells us how much cost it cost us to it tells us how much cost it cost us to close that deal and subtracts that from close that deal and subtracts that from close that deal and subtracts that from the total margin till I understand what the total margin till I understand what the total margin till I understand what my net profit is. my net profit is. my net profit is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, you do all that? >> Oh, you do all that? >> Oh, you do all that? >> I think Dude, dude. >> I think Dude, dude. >> I think Dude, dude. >> you're talking to? Do you know who the >> you're talking to? Do you know who the >> you're talking to? Do you know who the to? to? to? >> Yeah. I mean, and think about it, man. >> Yeah. I mean, and think about it, man. >> Yeah. I mean, and think about it, man. Um the conversion rates on um, social Um the conversion rates on um, social Um the conversion rates on um, social marketing spend, right? marketing spend, right? marketing spend, right? Uh, Uh, Uh, it is still very low. I think it's still it is still very low. I think it's still it is still very low. I think it's still in the low single digits. And then so in the low single digits. And then so in the low single digits. And then so when you hear these guys say, "Well, you when you hear these guys say, "Well, you when you hear these guys say, "Well, you know, we used AI to improve the know, we used AI to improve the know, we used AI to improve the conversion rate by 5%." Which it's like, conversion rate by 5%." Which it's like, conversion rate by 5%." Which it's like, okay, prove it.

okay, prove it. okay, prove it. Um, Um, Um, because I don't know if there anybody because I don't know if there anybody because I don't know if there anybody actually audits what these platforms do actually audits what these platforms do actually audits what these platforms do in the back end, right? All I can tell in the back end, right? All I can tell in the back end, right? All I can tell you is you is you is they there is a huge cottage industry, they there is a huge cottage industry, they there is a huge cottage industry, global cottage industry to inflate the global cottage industry to inflate the global cottage industry to inflate the uh, impression numbers. uh, impression numbers. uh, impression numbers. I think it's very easily In fact, I know I think it's very easily In fact, I know I think it's very easily In fact, I know that it's easily provable. that it's easily provable. that it's easily provable. Uh, you have click farms that are Uh, you have click farms that are Uh, you have click farms that are basically creating, you know, they're basically creating, you know, they're basically creating, you know, they're like minting coins. You know what I'm like minting coins. You know what I'm like minting coins. You know what I'm saying? saying? saying? And um, And um, And um, uh, uh, uh, >> We We did bot farms now. >> We We did bot farms now. >> We We did bot farms now. >> Yeah, now we have bot farms that >> Yeah, now we have bot farms that >> Yeah, now we have bot farms that generate like generate like generate like synthetic engagement, fake engagement. synthetic engagement, fake engagement. synthetic engagement, fake engagement. This isn't real stuff. But what are the This isn't real stuff. But what are the This isn't real stuff. But what are the social platforms doing with their ad social platforms doing with their ad social platforms doing with their ad engines, right? And working with engines, right? And working with engines, right? And working with advertisers to make the sure that that advertisers to make the sure that that advertisers to make the sure that that what what the advertiser is paying for what what the advertiser is paying for what what the advertiser is paying for is you know, for legit stuff, right?

is you know, for legit stuff, right? is you know, for legit stuff, right? Real impressions. And then what is an Real impressions. And then what is an Real impressions. And then what is an impression? What is engagement? How do impression? What is engagement? How do impression? What is engagement? How do they they they >> I mean, but that's I mean, those are all >> I mean, but that's I mean, those are all >> I mean, but that's I mean, those are all people are people are are enamored by by people are people are are enamored by by people are people are are enamored by by that, right? You know, clout chasing and that, right? You know, clout chasing and that, right? You know, clout chasing and all of that good stuff, you know? all of that good stuff, you know? all of that good stuff, you know? But here's here's something I just want But here's here's something I just want But here's here's something I just want to throw this out. I mean, you guys tell to throw this out. I mean, you guys tell to throw this out. I mean, you guys tell me what you think because I'm I'm kind me what you think because I'm I'm kind me what you think because I'm I'm kind of looking at this and I'm like, we talk of looking at this and I'm like, we talk of looking at this and I'm like, we talk and and and we kind of we disagree with and and and we kind of we disagree with and and and we kind of we disagree with each other from time to time, you know, each other from time to time, you know, each other from time to time, you know, and but you know, everything is kind of and but you know, everything is kind of and but you know, everything is kind of like you you got your point and you like you you got your point and you like you you got your point and you know, I don't know if it resonated or know, I don't know if it resonated or know, I don't know if it resonated or not, but not, but not, but we should open up the lines to calls. we should open up the lines to calls. we should open up the lines to calls. >> Yeah, we should. We should. But we'll >> Yeah, we should. We should. But we'll >> Yeah, we should. We should. But we'll have to figure that out. But you know, have to figure that out. But you know, have to figure that out. But you know, open invitation to people to come on. open invitation to people to come on. open invitation to people to come on. >> I mean not necessarily join. Somebody >> I mean not necessarily join. Somebody >> I mean not necessarily join. Somebody might just want to call and be like might just want to call and be like might just want to call and be like y'all [ __ ] CLICK. y'all [ __ ] CLICK. y'all [ __ ] CLICK. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> YEAH, YOU TOO, MAN. >> NO, hey look, we're SportsCenter. We're >> NO, hey look, we're SportsCenter. We're not we're not Jerry Springer, man.

not we're not Jerry Springer, man. not we're not Jerry Springer, man. >> Hey, but I mean >> Hey, but I mean >> Hey, but I mean I'm I'm I'm looking at it and I'm like I I like that looking at it and I'm like I I like that looking at it and I'm like I I like that idea because you know, a lot of people idea because you know, a lot of people idea because you know, a lot of people don't want to get up First, they don't don't want to get up First, they don't don't want to get up First, they don't want to jump on and and and and be want to jump on and and and and be want to jump on and and and and be face-to-face with you. face-to-face with you. face-to-face with you. They kind of want to, you know, They kind of want to, you know, They kind of want to, you know, be behind the keyboard and let me just be behind the keyboard and let me just be behind the keyboard and let me just make sure that what I'm saying is going make sure that what I'm saying is going make sure that what I'm saying is going to land. If it does land, I might join to land. If it does land, I might join to land. If it does land, I might join the call. You know, that kind of thing. the call. You know, that kind of thing. the call. You know, that kind of thing. >> Yeah, the the the problem the problem is >> Yeah, the the the problem the problem is >> Yeah, the the the problem the problem is the filtering for that because you know, the filtering for that because you know, the filtering for that because you know, we could do a Twitch style where you we could do a Twitch style where you we could do a Twitch style where you get, you know, the audience ask get, you know, the audience ask get, you know, the audience ask questions, but it's a big it's a big questions, but it's a big it's a big questions, but it's a big it's a big seed on the on the rest, but the problem seed on the on the rest, but the problem seed on the on the rest, but the problem is I've seen with all those Twitch is I've seen with all those Twitch is I've seen with all those Twitch things is things is things is >> Well, you get >> Well, you get >> Well, you get >> There's a noise. There's a noise. But >> There's a noise. There's a noise. But >> There's a noise. There's a noise. But but actually we have we have a more but actually we have we have a more but actually we have we have a more targeted audience, so it might work for targeted audience, so it might work for targeted audience, so it might work for us. Maybe we want to explore that, you us. Maybe we want to explore that, you us. Maybe we want to explore that, you know, we have Hey, open forum, log in know, we have Hey, open forum, log in know, we have Hey, open forum, log in and you know, drop a question and we'll and you know, drop a question and we'll and you know, drop a question and we'll select one or two or three and we'll select one or two or three and we'll select one or two or three and we'll we'll talk about it. And if you have a a we'll talk about it. And if you have a a we'll talk about it. And if you have a a good point, we'll invite you. We say, good point, we'll invite you. We say, good point, we'll invite you. We say, "Hey, "Hey, "Hey, XYZ asking this. You want to jump in and XYZ asking this. You want to jump in and XYZ asking this. You want to jump in and have a chat?" have a chat?" have a chat?" >> I think we're I'd rather have a >> I think we're I'd rather have a >> I think we're I'd rather have a conference, dude. Just like real in real conference, dude. Just like real in real conference, dude. Just like real in real thing.

thing. thing. >> I would I would love to do that, but I I >> I would I would love to do that, but I I >> I would I would love to do that, but I I mean as a stepping stone, that might be mean as a stepping stone, that might be mean as a stepping stone, that might be That's let's do it. That's let's do it. That's let's do it. You know, I mean I feel like I just feel You know, I mean I feel like I just feel You know, I mean I feel like I just feel like I want to I definitely want to hear like I want to I definitely want to hear like I want to I definitely want to hear from from people. I mean, you know, from from people. I mean, you know, from from people. I mean, you know, I I I can I mean, people here I I I can I mean, people here I I I can I mean, people here >> You know what? Think of it this as like >> You know what? Think of it this as like >> You know what? Think of it this as like a reaction video. You know how like you a reaction video. You know how like you a reaction video. You know how like you have these people that react to music have these people that react to music have these people that react to music videos and movies or whatever, you know? videos and movies or whatever, you know? videos and movies or whatever, you know? This is a reaction video. It was So, we This is a reaction video. It was So, we This is a reaction video. It was So, we have a couple of things that happened in have a couple of things that happened in have a couple of things that happened in the week and then we react to it and the week and then we react to it and the week and then we react to it and then get all ridiculous about it and then get all ridiculous about it and then get all ridiculous about it and that's that's that's sort of what it is, you know? sort of what it is, you know? sort of what it is, you know? >> would bet that there are people out >> would bet that there are people out >> would bet that there are people out there. I mean, I've I've gone I've gone there. I mean, I've I've gone I've gone there. I mean, I've I've gone I've gone to speaking engagements and whatnot and to speaking engagements and whatnot and to speaking engagements and whatnot and people be like, "Hey, you know, you're people be like, "Hey, you know, you're people be like, "Hey, you know, you're on IoT Coffee Talk." Yeah, I am. You on IoT Coffee Talk." Yeah, I am. You on IoT Coffee Talk." Yeah, I am. You know, know, know, man, you you you probably have the worst man, you you you probably have the worst man, you you you probably have the worst mouth on there. I think Yeah, I PROBABLY mouth on there. I think Yeah, I PROBABLY mouth on there. I think Yeah, I PROBABLY DO. [laughter] I PROBABLY I PROBABLY >> YEAH, YEAH, kind of. You do.

>> YEAH, YEAH, kind of. You do. >> YEAH, YEAH, kind of. You do. >> And then I'll I'll tell them right then, >> And then I'll I'll tell them right then, >> And then I'll I'll tell them right then, you know, I've done it before. It's you know, I've done it before. It's you know, I've done it before. It's like, it's no disrespect or anything. like, it's no disrespect or anything. like, it's no disrespect or anything. I'm like, "Look, I don't give a [ __ ] I I'm like, "Look, I don't give a [ __ ] I I'm like, "Look, I don't give a [ __ ] I will say what I want to say." will say what I want to say." will say what I want to say." >> Yeah. And And that's it. That's what >> Yeah. And And that's it. That's what >> Yeah. And And that's it. That's what But, you know, that that's the thing. But, you know, that that's the thing. But, you know, that that's the thing. Going back to what I mentioned before, Going back to what I mentioned before, Going back to what I mentioned before, um um um you know, you know, you know, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, people won't be listening to people who people won't be listening to people who people won't be listening to people who just generate hype. Seriously, they lose just generate hype. Seriously, they lose just generate hype. Seriously, they lose credibility over time. credibility over time. credibility over time. Um this whole show is about ground Um this whole show is about ground Um this whole show is about ground truth. We We uh truth. We We uh truth. We We uh debate each other, we react to the debate each other, we react to the debate each other, we react to the nonsense that's out there, and then we nonsense that's out there, and then we nonsense that's out there, and then we try to help our audience try to help our audience try to help our audience uh figure out where they need to uh go uh figure out where they need to uh go uh figure out where they need to uh go to uh to get things that will actually to uh to get things that will actually to uh to get things that will actually work and help them in work and help them in work and help them in um value creation, right? I mean, think um value creation, right? I mean, think um value creation, right? I mean, think about what the IoT stuff. We had the about what the IoT stuff. We had the about what the IoT stuff. We had the same thing about adoption. Well, you same thing about adoption. Well, you same thing about adoption. Well, you know, they're not adopting IoT fast know, they're not adopting IoT fast know, they're not adopting IoT fast enough. I'm like, "Well, what the hell enough. I'm like, "Well, what the hell enough. I'm like, "Well, what the hell do you mean?" And what is that? Well, do you mean?" And what is that? Well, do you mean?" And what is that? Well, you So, you're going to You want to you So, you're going to You want to you So, you're going to You want to drive adoption and to satisfy some drive adoption and to satisfy some drive adoption and to satisfy some ridiculous forecast ridiculous forecast ridiculous forecast for 20 whatever, 2026 or 2025 that is for 20 whatever, 2026 or 2025 that is for 20 whatever, 2026 or 2025 that is supposed to be 1.5 trillion dollars or supposed to be 1.5 trillion dollars or supposed to be 1.5 trillion dollars or some ridiculous number of economic some ridiculous number of economic some ridiculous number of economic benefit?

benefit? benefit? What about What about What about uh well, how you know, what about uh well, how you know, what about uh well, how you know, what about considering considering considering the fact that that number is nonsense, the fact that that number is nonsense, the fact that that number is nonsense, right? And thing you know, again, all right? And thing you know, again, all right? And thing you know, again, all the the the battle scars battle scars battle scars uh the the IoT community suffered. I uh the the IoT community suffered. I uh the the IoT community suffered. I mean, they're still suffering from it. I mean, they're still suffering from it. I mean, they're still suffering from it. I you know, when I talk to people in the you know, when I talk to people in the you know, when I talk to people in the community who watch the show, who know community who watch the show, who know community who watch the show, who know me, me, me, uh uh uh they give me testimonials, man. None of they give me testimonials, man. None of they give me testimonials, man. None of them tell me, "Oh, dude, you know, them tell me, "Oh, dude, you know, them tell me, "Oh, dude, you know, um um um this was like an astronomical this was like an astronomical this was like an astronomical opportunity." They go, "Man, that was opportunity." They go, "Man, that was opportunity." They go, "Man, that was brutal, right?" brutal, right?" brutal, right?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> I This AI stuff is going to be brutal >> I This AI stuff is going to be brutal >> I This AI stuff is going to be brutal because most people out there talking because most people out there talking because most people out there talking about stuff have an effing clue what about stuff have an effing clue what about stuff have an effing clue what they're talking about, you know? And they're talking about, you know? And they're talking about, you know? And that's That's scary, especially with that's That's scary, especially with that's That's scary, especially with >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> this kind of technology >> this kind of technology >> this kind of technology that can have a huge huge impact. It it that can have a huge huge impact. It it that can have a huge huge impact. It it it in it in it in that regard, yes, it is a transformative that regard, yes, it is a transformative that regard, yes, it is a transformative technology, technology, technology, but but but with the degree of misuse and misguided with the degree of misuse and misguided with the degree of misuse and misguided use, use, use, that is what's scary.

that is what's scary. that is what's scary. >> Yeah, that's that's what I was >> Yeah, that's that's what I was >> Yeah, that's that's what I was mentioning earlier because mentioning earlier because mentioning earlier because you know, the the reality is you know, you know, the the reality is you know, you know, the the reality is you know, our society are structured that you our society are structured that you our society are structured that you know, investors are only responsible for know, investors are only responsible for know, investors are only responsible for the money they invest. They're not the money they invest. They're not the money they invest. They're not responsible to responsible to responsible to understand the thing and and and and and understand the thing and and and and and understand the thing and and and and and be cautious about it. Now, in the be cautious about it. Now, in the be cautious about it. Now, in the different ways where did the past different ways where did the past different ways where did the past whether it was the internet bubble or whether it was the internet bubble or whether it was the internet bubble or the the whatever mortgage crisis or the the whatever mortgage crisis or the the whatever mortgage crisis or whatever, you know, the IoT things, whatever, you know, the IoT things, whatever, you know, the IoT things, the technology had some impact, but it the technology had some impact, but it the technology had some impact, but it was not as transformational as this all was not as transformational as this all was not as transformational as this all AI thing is because I keep on saying AI thing is because I keep on saying AI thing is because I keep on saying that over and over again in the show. I that over and over again in the show. I that over and over again in the show. I think what people underestimate is that think what people underestimate is that think what people underestimate is that it is the first time that we have now it is the first time that we have now it is the first time that we have now technology that can use something technology that can use something technology that can use something profoundly human, which is language at a profoundly human, which is language at a profoundly human, which is language at a scale scale scale that is crazy. And this is going to be that is crazy. And this is going to be that is crazy. And this is going to be transformational in society and can be transformational in society and can be transformational in society and can be extremely positive. For example, for extremely positive. For example, for extremely positive. For example, for education or extremely dangerous in many education or extremely dangerous in many education or extremely dangerous in many other ways. other ways. other ways. >> Yeah. And so wait a minute, let me ask >> Yeah. And so wait a minute, let me ask >> Yeah. And so wait a minute, let me ask you a quick question. Was was was the you a quick question. Was was was the you a quick question. Was was was the the this latest hack, right, with the this latest hack, right, with the this latest hack, right, with Canvas? Canvas? Canvas? Was that AI?

Was that AI? Was that AI? >> I don't know, but the thing is right now >> I don't know, but the thing is right now >> I don't know, but the thing is right now you have the the thing that you the you have the the thing that you the you have the the thing that you the problem which is problem which is problem which is the thing is the thing is the thing is I have some experience of hacker I have some experience of hacker I have some experience of hacker communities, you guys know that. What is communities, you guys know that. What is communities, you guys know that. What is interesting is that the in the early interesting is that the in the early interesting is that the in the early days of the hacker community, it was days of the hacker community, it was days of the hacker community, it was actually a very select group of people actually a very select group of people actually a very select group of people and it was knowledge base. and it was knowledge base. and it was knowledge base. So you would go to a BBS about a board So you would go to a BBS about a board So you would go to a BBS about a board service or to a forum and you would not service or to a forum and you would not service or to a forum and you would not ask, "Hey, how do I hack this?" The ask, "Hey, how do I hack this?" The ask, "Hey, how do I hack this?" The first question you would get is, "What first question you would get is, "What first question you would get is, "What do you know?" do you know?" do you know?" And say, "Oh, what have you done?" And And say, "Oh, what have you done?" And And say, "Oh, what have you done?" And if you say, "Oh, nothing." Okay, go find if you say, "Oh, nothing." Okay, go find if you say, "Oh, nothing." Okay, go find something and what you've done something and what you've done something and what you've done something, come back. Okay, so it was something, come back. Okay, so it was something, come back. Okay, so it was the early days. Then came the internet the early days. Then came the internet the early days. Then came the internet and the forums and people started to and the forums and people started to and the forums and people started to share knowledge and then hacking become share knowledge and then hacking become share knowledge and then hacking become hacking as a service so you can actually hacking as a service so you can actually hacking as a service so you can actually buy some hacking tools or something. The buy some hacking tools or something. The buy some hacking tools or something. The problem now with all these LLMs is that problem now with all these LLMs is that problem now with all these LLMs is that the the the the entry level for hackers the the the the entry level for hackers the the the the entry level for hackers is at the same level of the defenders. is at the same level of the defenders. is at the same level of the defenders. >> Very low. >> Very low. >> Very low. >> And that's dramatic. >> And that's dramatic. >> And that's dramatic. >> And then it depends on what you mean by >> And then it depends on what you mean by >> And then it depends on what you mean by AI. AI. AI. Uh it might not have been entirely AI Uh it might not have been entirely AI Uh it might not have been entirely AI cuz you know, things like um Methos cuz you know, things like um Methos cuz you know, things like um Methos what the the reason why it's a powerful what the the reason why it's a powerful what the the reason why it's a powerful tool, it's not exclusive to Methos, is tool, it's not exclusive to Methos, is tool, it's not exclusive to Methos, is its ability to to enable um you know, its ability to to enable um you know, its ability to to enable um you know, discovery.

discovery. discovery. Uh Uh Uh it gives you visibility to stuff that it gives you visibility to stuff that it gives you visibility to stuff that wasn't visible before. wasn't visible before. wasn't visible before. And and that's what hacker And and that's what hacker And and that's what hacker hackers are going to be using, you know. hackers are going to be using, you know. hackers are going to be using, you know. >> Yeah, but the the point is that the >> Yeah, but the the point is that the >> Yeah, but the the point is that the point is point is point is >> Does that mean that it's AI it's AI >> Does that mean that it's AI it's AI >> Does that mean that it's AI it's AI enabled? But then we're going to go to enabled? But then we're going to go to enabled? But then we're going to go to the next level where now these guys are the next level where now these guys are the next level where now these guys are going to be using a gentle they're going to be using a gentle they're going to be using a gentle they're already doing it using a gentle already doing it using a gentle already doing it using a gentle to to to basically basically basically you know up their game in fishing and you know up their game in fishing and you know up their game in fishing and everything else. everything else. everything else. >> And I give you a I give you another >> And I give you a I give you another >> And I give you a I give you another interesting example observation in the interesting example observation in the interesting example observation in the hacker community. Are you guys familiar hacker community. Are you guys familiar hacker community. Are you guys familiar with what is a CTF? with what is a CTF? with what is a CTF? Capture the flag. Capture the flag. Capture the flag. >> These are those These are the These are >> These are those These are the These are >> These are those These are the These are those competitions that you went and I'm those competitions that you went and I'm those competitions that you went and I'm part of. part of. part of. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> The problem now in the community in the >> The problem now in the community in the >> The problem now in the community in the hacker community is that you go to the hacker community is that you go to the hacker community is that you go to the CTF and because usually we go to a CTF CTF and because usually we go to a CTF CTF and because usually we go to a CTF you have the teams and you will see the you have the teams and you will see the you have the teams and you will see the the the points over the time will be a the the points over the time will be a the the points over the time will be a ramp. ramp. ramp. Now you see the top 15 one they all have Now you see the top 15 one they all have Now you see the top 15 one they all have the same number of points. the same number of points. the same number of points. Because they're all using AI and then Because they're all using AI and then Because they're all using AI and then they and they're going to have a So, the they and they're going to have a So, the they and they're going to have a So, the CTF scene is being destroyed by LLMs.

CTF scene is being destroyed by LLMs. CTF scene is being destroyed by LLMs. Totally destroyed. Totally destroyed. Totally destroyed. >> Well, and I mean I mean but there's >> Well, and I mean I mean but there's >> Well, and I mean I mean but there's there's also one point that we that we there's also one point that we that we there's also one point that we that we didn't address and that is didn't address and that is didn't address and that is the majority I would say better than 80% the majority I would say better than 80% the majority I would say better than 80% of the attacks of the attacks of the attacks are no different than they were 10 15 are no different than they were 10 15 are no different than they were 10 15 years ago. years ago. years ago. Right? The foundation of them is still Right? The foundation of them is still Right? The foundation of them is still the same. So, you have social the same. So, you have social the same. So, you have social engineering engineering engineering >> Three things. Yeah, social engineering, >> Three things. Yeah, social engineering, >> Three things. Yeah, social engineering, buffer overflow, privilege escalation. buffer overflow, privilege escalation. buffer overflow, privilege escalation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Three things that's That's hacking. >> Three things that's That's hacking. >> Three things that's That's hacking. >> Period. >> Period. >> Period. >> You know, I mean but that's that's the >> You know, I mean but that's that's the >> You know, I mean but that's that's the you know, you know, you know, I mean those things now you can just I mean those things now you can just I mean those things now you can just kind of do it faster. kind of do it faster. kind of do it faster. >> Yeah, and anybody can do it. >> Yeah, and anybody can do it. >> Yeah, and anybody can do it. And anybody can do it. That's the And anybody can do it. That's the And anybody can do it. That's the problem. The bar is low. The bar is just problem. The bar is low. The bar is just problem. The bar is low. The bar is just the cost. And actually that is in the the cost. And actually that is in the the cost. And actually that is in the CTF communities now it's how much money CTF communities now it's how much money CTF communities now it's how much money do you have to spend on token? We're do you have to spend on token? We're do you have to spend on token? We're back to your question earlier on back to your question earlier on back to your question earlier on is how much money you can The one who is how much money you can The one who is how much money you can The one who has the most money in tokens will win. has the most money in tokens will win. has the most money in tokens will win. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, tokenomics is a business. tokenomics is a business. tokenomics is a business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but you know the funny thing is Yeah, but you know the funny thing is Yeah, but you know the funny thing is that you you've you've created that you you've you've created that you you've you've created >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> It it's a complete waste if you think >> It it's a complete waste if you think >> It it's a complete waste if you think about it about it about it because um have to spend tokens to because um have to spend tokens to because um have to spend tokens to defend yourself.

defend yourself. defend yourself. And then And then And then at the same time the attackers are using at the same time the attackers are using at the same time the attackers are using tokens to take you out. And so tokens to take you out. And so tokens to take you out. And so >> Yeah, this is Same with >> Yeah, this is Same with >> Yeah, this is Same with >> Yeah, what what what >> Yeah, what what what >> Yeah, what what what >> Same with military, my friend. >> Same with military, my friend. >> Same with military, my friend. >> Yeah, it it literally is a war going on. >> Yeah, it it literally is a war going on. >> Yeah, it it literally is a war going on. Um and the sad thing is Um and the sad thing is Um and the sad thing is the cyber criminal economy will grow the cyber criminal economy will grow the cyber criminal economy will grow faster than the regular economy. faster than the regular economy. faster than the regular economy. >> And the cyber >> And the cyber >> And the cyber criminal economy doesn't produce criminal economy doesn't produce criminal economy doesn't produce anything. It just steals. anything. It just steals. anything. It just steals. >> Well, and and it's actually it's it's >> Well, and and it's actually it's it's >> Well, and and it's actually it's it's actually actually actually what I'm saying is that it's a different what I'm saying is that it's a different what I'm saying is that it's a different than that. It's not the cyber criminal. than that. It's not the cyber criminal. than that. It's not the cyber criminal. It's the criminal who now have access to It's the criminal who now have access to It's the criminal who now have access to cyber because it's cyber because it's cyber because it's >> Oh, yeah, yeah. I I know because now >> Oh, yeah, yeah. I I know because now >> Oh, yeah, yeah. I I know because now they can buy bit. they can buy bit. they can buy bit. >> Yeah, so they >> Yeah, so they >> Yeah, so they they don't need they don't need they don't need >> They can buy criminality. >> They can buy criminality. >> They can buy criminality. >> Yeah, so No, but it's true. That's the >> Yeah, so No, but it's true. That's the >> Yeah, so No, but it's true. That's the problem. Again, that's the idea. The the problem. Again, that's the idea. The the problem. Again, that's the idea. The the barrier to entry to hacking has been barrier to entry to hacking has been barrier to entry to hacking has been lower and lower and lower. lower and lower and lower. lower and lower and lower. So anybody can do it. Now it's a tool So anybody can do it. Now it's a tool So anybody can do it. Now it's a tool for criminals. for criminals. for criminals. You'll be so You had like half of the You'll be so You had like half of the You'll be so You had like half of the hackers were just doing it for the fun hackers were just doing it for the fun hackers were just doing it for the fun and the other for the money. And in the and the other for the money. And in the and the other for the money. And in the beginning it was actually the opposite. beginning it was actually the opposite. beginning it was actually the opposite. It was one person doing it doing it for It was one person doing it doing it for It was one person doing it doing it for the money. 99% of us were doing it for the money. 99% of us were doing it for the money. 99% of us were doing it for the fun. Now it's probably the opposite.

the fun. Now it's probably the opposite. the fun. Now it's probably the opposite. 99% is just pure robbery. It's just, you 99% is just pure robbery. It's just, you 99% is just pure robbery. It's just, you know, professional criminals now can use know, professional criminals now can use know, professional criminals now can use an MLM instead of a gun. an MLM instead of a gun. an MLM instead of a gun. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I stay in my basement with a >> And I stay in my basement with a >> And I stay in my basement with a computer and maybe I have these kids computer and maybe I have these kids computer and maybe I have these kids that know a little bit more than me, but that know a little bit more than me, but that know a little bit more than me, but hey, I have access to it. Before I had hey, I have access to it. Before I had hey, I have access to it. Before I had to learn. to learn. to learn. >> And and >> And and >> And and >> But the other end of it is >> But the other end of it is >> But the other end of it is when people and this I've never when people and this I've never when people and this I've never understood this, you know, oh, our understood this, you know, oh, our understood this, you know, oh, our security is X Y Z. Our security we are security is X Y Z. Our security we are security is X Y Z. Our security we are so secure. And it's like you are just so secure. And it's like you are just so secure. And it's like you are just dishing out an invitation. dishing out an invitation. dishing out an invitation. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Come and prove me wrong because I just >> Come and prove me wrong because I just >> Come and prove me wrong because I just told you that we use layers of security told you that we use layers of security told you that we use layers of security across these areas. It's like, oh, across these areas. It's like, oh, across these areas. It's like, oh, really? A layered attack. All right, really? A layered attack. All right, really? A layered attack. All right, here you come. >> Thanks for laying out the blueprint. >> Thanks for laying out the blueprint. For how we pick you out. For how we pick you out. For how we pick you out. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> But see, that's the thing. It eventually >> But see, that's the thing. It eventually >> But see, that's the thing. It eventually you know, security through obscurity. you know, security through obscurity. you know, security through obscurity. How can you hide?

How can you hide? How can you hide? Uh because these things will be scanning Uh because these things will be scanning Uh because these things will be scanning and and can microtarget things, right? and and can microtarget things, right? and and can microtarget things, right? And And And you know, so everything that's happening you know, so everything that's happening you know, so everything that's happening in in in advertising, right? advertising, right? advertising, right? It is being flipped and used in It is being flipped and used in It is being flipped and used in cybersecurity cyber cybersecurity cyber cybersecurity cyber criminality, criminality, criminality, you know? Those you know? Those you know? Those They're literally the same They're literally the same They're literally the same tool sets and espionage, right? So tool sets and espionage, right? So tool sets and espionage, right? So >> Now on the defense side of the defense >> Now on the defense side of the defense >> Now on the defense side of the defense side, they're they're actually already side, they're they're actually already side, they're they're actually already our research and I I had conversation our research and I I had conversation our research and I I had conversation with few friends recently. You can with few friends recently. You can with few friends recently. You can actually one of the good thing is actually one of the good thing is actually one of the good thing is because of the ability to generate code because of the ability to generate code because of the ability to generate code so fast, you can actually go back to so fast, you can actually go back to so fast, you can actually go back to pretty much imagine like generating a pretty much imagine like generating a pretty much imagine like generating a very specific new very specific new very specific new encrypted algorithm just for you. encrypted algorithm just for you. encrypted algorithm just for you. Before that, you couldn't do that. You Before that, you couldn't do that. You Before that, you couldn't do that. You have to rely on standards and standards have to rely on standards and standards have to rely on standards and standards would be beat up and people would find would be beat up and people would find would be beat up and people would find your vulnerability. your vulnerability. your vulnerability. But it's easier to generate your But it's easier to generate your But it's easier to generate your It's easier to generate on a regular It's easier to generate on a regular It's easier to generate on a regular basis your own obscurity and defense.

basis your own obscurity and defense. basis your own obscurity and defense. >> Yeah, yeah, but this is the thing that I >> Yeah, yeah, but this is the thing that I >> Yeah, yeah, but this is the thing that I think is really I don't know. I get think is really I don't know. I get think is really I don't know. I get frustrated hearing people just talk frustrated hearing people just talk frustrated hearing people just talk about code. Well, you can code this and about code. Well, you can code this and about code. Well, you can code this and code that. No, at the end of the day, code that. No, at the end of the day, code that. No, at the end of the day, you need to build an application that you need to build an application that you need to build an application that works. works. works. >> Yeah, but >> Yeah, but >> Yeah, but >> Just because you generate code doesn't >> Just because you generate code doesn't >> Just because you generate code doesn't mean that that equates to mean that that equates to mean that that equates to custom application or custom application or custom application or or a or a or a bespoke capability. And that that's Now bespoke capability. And that that's Now bespoke capability. And that that's Now and you know, I'm not and you know, I'm not and you know, I'm not I'm just reacting I'm just reacting I'm just reacting to stuff that I've heard all week cuz to stuff that I've heard all week cuz to stuff that I've heard all week cuz you know, a lot of these guys are you know, a lot of these guys are you know, a lot of these guys are pumping out code generator agentic code pumping out code generator agentic code pumping out code generator agentic code generation tools, or SDLC automation generation tools, or SDLC automation generation tools, or SDLC automation tools. tools. tools. And but the thing is is And but the thing is is And but the thing is is there's always a person in the middle. there's always a person in the middle. there's always a person in the middle. You need to know what the hell you're You need to know what the hell you're You need to know what the hell you're doing. Yet, you have all these people doing. Yet, you have all these people doing. Yet, you have all these people conflating vibe coding with AI or conflating vibe coding with AI or conflating vibe coding with AI or agentic enabled SDLC or software agentic enabled SDLC or software agentic enabled SDLC or software development. development. development. They're They're They're they're two different discussions, they're two different discussions, they're two different discussions, right?

right? right? And and a vibe coding is just only one And and a vibe coding is just only one And and a vibe coding is just only one thing thing thing that might be for one step or one phase that might be for one step or one phase that might be for one step or one phase of your SDLC. of your SDLC. of your SDLC. And laypeople, people who don't code, And laypeople, people who don't code, And laypeople, people who don't code, who are not who are not who are not um you know, software engineers don't um you know, software engineers don't um you know, software engineers don't know this stuff, right? >> Yeah, I mean it's the same it's the same >> Yeah, I mean it's the same it's the same same we had before the beginning of the same we had before the beginning of the same we had before the beginning of the show. They're not only talking about, show. They're not only talking about, show. They're not only talking about, you know, you know, you know, prompt crafting. You just think that two prompt crafting. You just think that two prompt crafting. You just think that two lines going to get you great code. No. lines going to get you great code. No. lines going to get you great code. No. No, but not but what what I was No, but not but what what I was No, but not but what what I was mentioning is that if you have if you mentioning is that if you have if you mentioning is that if you have if you spend the right amount of energy and spend the right amount of energy and spend the right amount of energy and focus in actually specifying in natural focus in actually specifying in natural focus in actually specifying in natural language something very sound, then the language something very sound, then the language something very sound, then the code generation automation can be code generation automation can be code generation automation can be achieved much easier than before. That's achieved much easier than before. That's achieved much easier than before. That's the point. But yeah, it is not again as the point. But yeah, it is not again as the point. But yeah, it is not again as I said to all people, oh, I said to all people, oh, I said to all people, oh, I look at the result of a work. What I I look at the result of a work. What I I look at the result of a work. What I ask them is what was the length of your ask them is what was the length of your ask them is what was the length of your prompt? prompt? prompt? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if the prompt was two sentences, I >> And if the prompt was two sentences, I >> And if the prompt was two sentences, I know it's [ __ ] work.

know it's [ __ ] work. know it's [ __ ] work. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I mean >> I mean >> I mean >> Yeah, and then they say you >> Yeah, and then they say you >> Yeah, and then they say you >> It it's it's wild. It's wild to me. Like >> It it's it's wild. It's wild to me. Like >> It it's it's wild. It's wild to me. Like like I said, there there's two there's like I said, there there's two there's like I said, there there's two there's there's, you know, the whole vibe coding there's, you know, the whole vibe coding there's, you know, the whole vibe coding thing, my team, fine. If you want to do thing, my team, fine. If you want to do thing, my team, fine. If you want to do that on the side, I don't care. If I that on the side, I don't care. If I that on the side, I don't care. If I ever see you commit that code, ever see you commit that code, ever see you commit that code, >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh-huh. >> we got a problem. >> we got a problem. >> we got a problem. Um flat out. I'm I'm just There there is Um flat out. I'm I'm just There there is Um flat out. I'm I'm just There there is not a there is not there is not just a not a there is not there is not just a not a there is not there is not just a human in the loop. There's a human in human in the loop. There's a human in human in the loop. There's a human in the lead. There is a human intervention. the lead. There is a human intervention. the lead. There is a human intervention. There's a human at the end, we still QA There's a human at the end, we still QA There's a human at the end, we still QA our [ __ ] our [ __ ] our [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Sure, yeah. Of course. >> Sure, yeah. Of course. >> Sure, yeah. Of course. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we've had co- code And you know, we've had co- code And you know, we've had co- code generation generation generation >> Claude writes better code than any you >> Claude writes better code than any you >> Claude writes better code than any you know what you know what? Ooh, there's so know what you know what? Ooh, there's so know what you know what? Ooh, there's so many things I want to say about that many things I want to say about that many things I want to say about that [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] I mean I mean I mean um um um >> It does the average. It does like I >> It does the average. It does like I >> It does the average. It does like I mean, but the thing is mean, but the thing is mean, but the thing is um um um you know, it it the you have to remember you know, it it the you have to remember you know, it it the you have to remember it's not the AI, it's actual the the it's not the AI, it's actual the the it's not the AI, it's actual the the harness, right? The the harness that harness, right? The the harness that harness, right? The the harness that actually guides a series of ma- you actually guides a series of ma- you actually guides a series of ma- you know, like chronicle agents know, like chronicle agents know, like chronicle agents uh call it disaggregated intelligence to uh call it disaggregated intelligence to uh call it disaggregated intelligence to um um um that work together in chain to to come that work together in chain to to come that work together in chain to to come up with the outcome.

up with the outcome. up with the outcome. But yeah, you're right. I You know, the But yeah, you're right. I You know, the But yeah, you're right. I You know, the thing is thing is thing is the there the there the there we're our we're already seeing this. So, we're our we're already seeing this. So, we're our we're already seeing this. So, if people are saying, "Well, you're full if people are saying, "Well, you're full if people are saying, "Well, you're full of shit." My experience is that no, of shit." My experience is that no, of shit." My experience is that no, this is what's happening this is what's happening this is what's happening uh to uh to uh to uh what we're see- or this is what we're uh what we're see- or this is what we're uh what we're see- or this is what we're seeing with some of the big guys that seeing with some of the big guys that seeing with some of the big guys that have been talking agentic for more than have been talking agentic for more than have been talking agentic for more than a year. a year. a year. Pumping out a bunch of frameworks and Pumping out a bunch of frameworks and Pumping out a bunch of frameworks and tools and finding out you still need to tools and finding out you still need to tools and finding out you still need to have the person in the middle. have the person in the middle. have the person in the middle. When When When >> No go. >> No go. >> No go. >> 3 years ago, they said the [ __ ] is >> 3 years ago, they said the [ __ ] is >> 3 years ago, they said the [ __ ] is magic. magic. magic. You know? You know? You know? >> Babe, go >> Babe, go >> Babe, go >> all in. Guess what? Now they're like >> all in. Guess what? Now they're like >> all in. Guess what? Now they're like stepping back and say, "Well, you have stepping back and say, "Well, you have stepping back and say, "Well, you have to use all this code now to make sure to use all this code now to make sure to use all this code now to make sure that that that your AI and your agents don't go bonkers your AI and your agents don't go bonkers your AI and your agents don't go bonkers on you." on you." on you." >> Well, I mean, look >> Well, I mean, look >> Well, I mean, look >> The same people 3 years ago who went >> The same people 3 years ago who went >> The same people 3 years ago who went overboard. I you know, in my mind, they overboard. I you know, in my mind, they overboard. I you know, in my mind, they don't have credibility because you effed don't have credibility because you effed don't have credibility because you effed it and effed it, and you should have it and effed it, and you should have it and effed it, and you should have known better from the get-go. known better from the get-go. known better from the get-go. >> Well, that's the whole thing, right? You >> Well, that's the whole thing, right? You >> Well, that's the whole thing, right? You know, uh you know, it it's know, uh you know, it it's know, uh you know, it it's >> It has no credibility, man. No >> It has no credibility, man. No >> It has no credibility, man. No credibility.

credibility. credibility. >> begets more ignorance. I mean, it's it's >> begets more ignorance. I mean, it's it's >> begets more ignorance. I mean, it's it's going to happen. It's there are there going to happen. It's there are there going to happen. It's there are there are I had a are I had a are I had a lengthy debate with someone from another lengthy debate with someone from another lengthy debate with someone from another company that was looking at the twins company that was looking at the twins company that was looking at the twins that we build and they said, "Oh, we do that we build and they said, "Oh, we do that we build and they said, "Oh, we do that." I was like, "No, you don't." that." I was like, "No, you don't." that." I was like, "No, you don't." I mean, I'm sorry, you don't. Because, I mean, I'm sorry, you don't. Because, I mean, I'm sorry, you don't. Because, "Oh, well, you know, "Oh, well, you know, "Oh, well, you know, can you ask your twin questions?" I was can you ask your twin questions?" I was can you ask your twin questions?" I was like, "You don't talk to a production like, "You don't talk to a production like, "You don't talk to a production twin that's on the operational side twin that's on the operational side twin that's on the operational side working on critical infrastructure. It's working on critical infrastructure. It's working on critical infrastructure. It's busy doing that." busy doing that." busy doing that." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> "Well, you should be able to." No. >> "Well, you should be able to." No. >> "Well, you should be able to." No. "Well, if you just sent the question and "Well, if you just sent the question and "Well, if you just sent the question and the data sits in the graph database over the data sits in the graph database over the data sits in the graph database over here, then you can query that." I said, here, then you can query that." I said, here, then you can query that." I said, "Cuz so, what you want to do is create a "Cuz so, what you want to do is create a "Cuz so, what you want to do is create a twin of the twin and unidirectionally twin of the twin and unidirectionally twin of the twin and unidirectionally feed that insight data over there to feed that insight data over there to feed that insight data over there to that one." Sure, you can do that. You're that one." Sure, you can do that. You're that one." Sure, you can do that. You're not talking to the production twin, you not talking to the production twin, you not talking to the production twin, you [ __ ] idiot. I hate that [ __ ] Well, well, well, hang I hate that [ __ ] Well, well, well, hang on a second. You I mean, I work for the on a second. You I mean, I work for the on a second. You I mean, I work for the union of digital twins. They need breaks union of digital twins. They need breaks union of digital twins. They need breaks when you can talk to them. So, you need when you can talk to them. So, you need when you can talk to them. So, you need to put them off the production line.

to put them off the production line. to put them off the production line. >> [laughter] >> I mean, it's it's more than it's more >> I mean, it's it's more than it's more than slavery. We have digital twins now. than slavery. We have digital twins now. than slavery. We have digital twins now. >> Yeah, you know what? These things These >> Yeah, you know what? These things These >> Yeah, you know what? These things These things get fed by data. So, you don't things get fed by data. So, you don't things get fed by data. So, you don't need a break nor do you need a rest. need a break nor do you need a rest. need a break nor do you need a rest. >> way, I was thinking on the funny we are >> way, I was thinking on the funny we are >> way, I was thinking on the funny we are on the funny on the funny sloppy slope on the funny on the funny sloppy slope on the funny on the funny sloppy slope now. now. now. Your your question about your falling in Your your question about your falling in Your your question about your falling in love with a a digital twin or an AI love with a a digital twin or an AI love with a a digital twin or an AI agent, then maybe there's a new work agent, then maybe there's a new work agent, then maybe there's a new work there's a new job which is there's a new job which is there's a new job which is divorce attorney to divorce with your AI divorce attorney to divorce with your AI divorce attorney to divorce with your AI agent. agent. agent. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> AI talk to the AI drug rehab. >> AI talk to the AI drug rehab. >> AI talk to the AI drug rehab. >> Yes, but yes, but it's much more >> Yes, but yes, but it's much more >> Yes, but yes, but it's much more sellable. It's called sellable. It's called sellable. It's called AI lawyer AI marriage law. AI lawyer AI marriage law. AI lawyer AI marriage law. >> I mean, if you if you do that, then >> I mean, if you if you do that, then >> I mean, if you if you do that, then somebody's going to be talking about somebody's going to be talking about somebody's going to be talking about custody, custody of the data, custody of custody, custody of the data, custody of custody, custody of the data, custody of the agent. the agent. the agent. >> You know, you imagine how many tokens >> You know, you imagine how many tokens >> You know, you imagine how many tokens per hour can charge for that. per hour can charge for that. per hour can charge for that. >> Oh, yeah?

>> Oh, yeah? >> Oh, yeah? >> Yeah, you know, you know, um I think if >> Yeah, you know, you know, um I think if >> Yeah, you know, you know, um I think if you really think about it, the people you really think about it, the people you really think about it, the people who are going to I I who are going to I I who are going to I I you know, they they um what are you have you know, they they um what are you have you know, they they um what are you have all these people that say, "Well, you all these people that say, "Well, you all these people that say, "Well, you know, um know, um know, um AI won't replace you. Uh the person who AI won't replace you. Uh the person who AI won't replace you. Uh the person who knows how to use AI will replace you." I knows how to use AI will replace you." I knows how to use AI will replace you." I don't necessarily think that's true. don't necessarily think that's true. don't necessarily think that's true. Actually, the person who knows how to Actually, the person who knows how to Actually, the person who knows how to who's a master experience and um who's a master experience and um who's a master experience and um actually can operate actually can operate actually can operate um and deliver um and deliver um and deliver value without AI is going to continue to value without AI is going to continue to value without AI is going to continue to out perform. out perform. out perform. >> Yeah, I I would actually rephrase that >> Yeah, I I would actually rephrase that >> Yeah, I I would actually rephrase that in a different way. I would say the in a different way. I would say the in a different way. I would say the person who knows when not to use AI will person who knows when not to use AI will person who knows when not to use AI will replace you. replace you. replace you. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. Actually, that's that's actually that's Actually, that's that's actually that's Actually, that's that's actually that's also a very interesting point because also a very interesting point because also a very interesting point because you know, I coined this concept called you know, I coined this concept called you know, I coined this concept called zero trust execution and I've had a few zero trust execution and I've had a few zero trust execution and I've had a few people say, "Well, how's you know, people say, "Well, how's you know, people say, "Well, how's you know, that's just a zero trust uh that's just a zero trust uh that's just a zero trust uh you know, security." you know, security." you know, security." I would I told them, "No, it's not."

I would I told them, "No, it's not." I would I told them, "No, it's not." Because usually what you know, when you Because usually what you know, when you Because usually what you know, when you look at agents and what the now people look at agents and what the now people look at agents and what the now people are trying to do with open claw with are trying to do with open claw with are trying to do with open claw with Nemo claw and you know, you have like Nemo claw and you know, you have like Nemo claw and you know, you have like they introduced what's that open they introduced what's that open they introduced what's that open open scripture something like that. open scripture something like that. open scripture something like that. Yeah. All these all these isolation Yeah. All these all these isolation Yeah. All these all these isolation mechanisms, sandboxing, blah blah blah, mechanisms, sandboxing, blah blah blah, mechanisms, sandboxing, blah blah blah, you know, zero access upon instan- you know, zero access upon instan- you know, zero access upon instan- instantiation. instantiation. instantiation. All this is is completely op- opposite All this is is completely op- opposite All this is is completely op- opposite thinking. Um and it it's all about not thinking. Um and it it's all about not thinking. Um and it it's all about not not um not um not um you you know, uh you you know, uh you you know, uh not trusting something that you're not trusting something that you're not trusting something that you're actually uh actually uh actually uh you know is there, right? you know is there, right? you know is there, right? And um And um And um that's the approach that you you know, that's the approach that you you know, that's the approach that you you know, you need to take you need to take you need to take even as a a user of AI. even as a a user of AI. even as a a user of AI. Be aware of its limitations. Otherwise, Be aware of its limitations. Otherwise, Be aware of its limitations. Otherwise, you're going to really screw yourself, you're going to really screw yourself, you're going to really screw yourself, right? right? right? >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> But then, you know, don't be a Luddite. >> But then, you know, don't be a Luddite. >> But then, you know, don't be a Luddite. Just know what it's good for and what Just know what it's good for and what Just know what it's good for and what safe use is and then uh adopt it in a safe use is and then uh adopt it in a safe use is and then uh adopt it in a way that delivers value. But these way that delivers value. But these way that delivers value. But these people that went all in, I'm telling people that went all in, I'm telling people that went all in, I'm telling you, man, you, man, you, man, all of them had to backtrack, dude.

all of them had to backtrack, dude. all of them had to backtrack, dude. Because in the beginning, it was all Because in the beginning, it was all Because in the beginning, it was all about we have to remember this. These about we have to remember this. These about we have to remember this. These guys were telling you to train your own guys were telling you to train your own guys were telling you to train your own foundation models. foundation models. foundation models. Is that happening? No. Is that happening? No. Is that happening? No. No one's freaking doing that. No one's freaking doing that. No one's freaking doing that. You know? You know? You know? And no one's doing that. And that was And no one's doing that. And that was And no one's doing that. And that was only like 2 years ago. only like 2 years ago. only like 2 years ago. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Where are we now? Finding out, oh jeez, >> Where are we now? Finding out, oh jeez, >> Where are we now? Finding out, oh jeez, wow, um it's not secure. How do we do wow, um it's not secure. How do we do wow, um it's not secure. How do we do this in a safe way? And then this in a safe way? And then this in a safe way? And then it's just been a it's been a a circus it's just been a it's been a a circus it's just been a it's been a a circus act, act, act, quite frankly. And that's why we're at quite frankly. And that's why we're at quite frankly. And that's why we're at at this adoption discussion now. at this adoption discussion now. at this adoption discussion now. How do we drive you know, people aren't How do we drive you know, people aren't How do we drive you know, people aren't driving adoption fast, you know, driving adoption fast, you know, driving adoption fast, you know, adopting AI fast enough? Who gives a adopting AI fast enough? Who gives a adopting AI fast enough? Who gives a [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] If it's valuable, it'll get used. It'll If it's valuable, it'll get used. It'll If it's valuable, it'll get used. It'll be adopted. be adopted. be adopted. >> I mean, you know who gives a [ __ ] It's >> I mean, you know who gives a [ __ ] It's >> I mean, you know who gives a [ __ ] It's the it's the billion of dollars of the it's the billion of dollars of the it's the billion of dollars of investment that investment that investment that >> two-stepping y'all. You know, you should >> two-stepping y'all. You know, you should >> two-stepping y'all. You know, you should have thought of this before you took have thought of this before you took have thought of this before you took your FOMO gamble. That's the thing.

your FOMO gamble. That's the thing. your FOMO gamble. That's the thing. They took a gamble and it looks like They took a gamble and it looks like They took a gamble and it looks like they're losing cuz if they're losing cuz if they're losing cuz if AI adoption is a problem, that's their AI adoption is a problem, that's their AI adoption is a problem, that's their problem. problem. problem. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Not a not a not a business's problem, >> Not a not a not a business's problem, >> Not a not a not a business's problem, not a CEO's problem, even though CEOs not a CEO's problem, even though CEOs not a CEO's problem, even though CEOs are making it their problem. It's not are making it their problem. It's not are making it their problem. It's not the board's problem, even though they're the board's problem, even though they're the board's problem, even though they're making it their problem. making it their problem. making it their problem. You don't need to you don't need to You don't need to you don't need to You don't need to you don't need to adopt AI for the sake of adopt AI for the sake of adopt AI for the sake of >> adopting AI. >> adopting AI. >> adopting AI. >> satisfying any >> satisfying any >> satisfying any a vendor or anyone else's a vendor or anyone else's a vendor or anyone else's or an investor's or an investor's or an investor's um um um AI agenda, right? It's like that was AI agenda, right? It's like that was AI agenda, right? It's like that was their gamble. You don't need to gamble their gamble. You don't need to gamble their gamble. You don't need to gamble on it. on it. on it. So, that's So, that's So, that's >> Yeah, well, I'm not sure the balls in >> Yeah, well, I'm not sure the balls in >> Yeah, well, I'm not sure the balls in the investor thing that way, but yes, it the investor thing that way, but yes, it the investor thing that way, but yes, it should should should >> No, they don't. They don't. They >> No, they don't. They don't. They >> No, they don't. They don't. They >> That's why we we and actually to some >> That's why we we and actually to some >> That's why we we and actually to some extent in tech we've we've lived in this extent in tech we've we've lived in this extent in tech we've we've lived in this in this kind of even though there were in this kind of even though there were in this kind of even though there were some bubbles that burst, but in general some bubbles that burst, but in general some bubbles that burst, but in general if you look at the long term the return if you look at the long term the return if you look at the long term the return on investment in tech in the past you on investment in tech in the past you on investment in tech in the past you know 50 years have been generally very know 50 years have been generally very know 50 years have been generally very positive.

positive. positive. >> know, think about that for for a moment >> know, think about that for for a moment >> know, think about that for for a moment though. Why is it Why is it pro though. Why is it Why is it pro though. Why is it Why is it pro positive and what is tech anyways? positive and what is tech anyways? positive and what is tech anyways? What is it? What is it? What is it? >> Well, I mean everything related to >> Well, I mean everything related to >> Well, I mean everything related to digital, but I think that now we're digital, but I think that now we're digital, but I think that now we're reaching a point that the scale again reaching a point that the scale again reaching a point that the scale again because the scale of what it can do and because the scale of what it can do and because the scale of what it can do and impact is kind of also the scale of our impact is kind of also the scale of our impact is kind of also the scale of our the amount of money we need to because the amount of money we need to because the amount of money we need to because it's a very inefficient way to produce it's a very inefficient way to produce it's a very inefficient way to produce intelligence. intelligence. intelligence. The amount of electricity it consume, The amount of electricity it consume, The amount of electricity it consume, the amount of CPU, the amount of chips the amount of CPU, the amount of chips the amount of CPU, the amount of chips you need is gigantic. So, it you need is gigantic. So, it you need is gigantic. So, it I mean even the building of the internet I mean even the building of the internet I mean even the building of the internet I haven't done the math. You probably I haven't done the math. You probably I haven't done the math. You probably know that much better than I, but you know that much better than I, but you know that much better than I, but you look at the how what was the cost of look at the how what was the cost of look at the how what was the cost of building the internet infrastructure? building the internet infrastructure? building the internet infrastructure? We've probably passed that with all We've probably passed that with all We've probably passed that with all these AI crap today. these AI crap today. these AI crap today. >> Yeah. Well, >> Yeah. Well, >> Yeah. Well, um um um apparently what uh AI all this apparently what uh AI all this apparently what uh AI all this infrastructure is good at at the end of infrastructure is good at at the end of infrastructure is good at at the end of the day is generating code, which is the day is generating code, which is the day is generating code, which is then software running on CPUs. then software running on CPUs. then software running on CPUs. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You see my post? I actually have a next >> You see my post? I actually have a next >> You see my post? I actually have a next curve graphic for that. But, no, at the curve graphic for that. But, no, at the curve graphic for that. But, no, at the end of the day the tech end of the day the tech end of the day the tech is about tools.

is about tools. is about tools. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Business tools. >> Business tools. >> Business tools. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It doesn't actually create real economic >> It doesn't actually create real economic >> It doesn't actually create real economic value cuz remember back in the day where value cuz remember back in the day where value cuz remember back in the day where they were arguing about well, software they were arguing about well, software they were arguing about well, software Software industry, they don't really Software industry, they don't really Software industry, they don't really they create they don't really create a they create they don't really create a they create they don't really create a product, right? product, right? product, right? So, you might deem software product, So, you might deem software product, So, you might deem software product, right? right? right? But, in terms of driving gross national But, in terms of driving gross national But, in terms of driving gross national uh product, right? uh product, right? uh product, right? Creating, you know, like stuff that Creating, you know, like stuff that Creating, you know, like stuff that people buy that are essential. people buy that are essential. people buy that are essential. Doesn't do that. Um Doesn't do that. Um Doesn't do that. Um >> Well, >> Well, >> Well, >> business processes improve >> business processes improve >> business processes improve um um um it it you know, it can be the basis for it it you know, it can be the basis for it it you know, it can be the basis for um services, um services, um services, but it it and it can improve business but it it and it can improve business but it it and it can improve business operations and all the things that it's operations and all the things that it's operations and all the things that it's used for, used for, used for, but but but it's a tool. it's a tool. it's a tool. >> Yeah, but you know, the thing the thing >> Yeah, but you know, the thing the thing >> Yeah, but you know, the thing the thing is is is >> technology tool. >> technology tool. >> technology tool. >> Yeah, but the thing is, and we might >> Yeah, but the thing is, and we might >> Yeah, but the thing is, and we might have to close soon, but maybe that's a a have to close soon, but maybe that's a a have to close soon, but maybe that's a a closing thought is closing thought is closing thought is >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> [snorts] >> because we have this kind of at least at >> because we have this kind of at least at >> because we have this kind of at least at the moment the illusion and maybe over the moment the illusion and maybe over the moment the illusion and maybe over time reality of time reality of time reality of thinking entities which are digital, you thinking entities which are digital, you thinking entities which are digital, you can probably derive money out of that can probably derive money out of that can probably derive money out of that directly because you can talk to your I directly because you can talk to your I directly because you can talk to your I mean, the same way that you know, you mean, the same way that you know, you mean, the same way that you know, you talk to your AI lover, this AI lover talk to your AI lover, this AI lover talk to your AI lover, this AI lover might ask you for money and you might might ask you for money and you might might ask you for money and you might want to give him gifts. So, want to give him gifts. So, want to give him gifts. So, >> Yeah. Well, that's already happening.

>> Yeah. Well, that's already happening. >> Yeah. Well, that's already happening. >> No, but I mean, it's not easy to imagine >> No, but I mean, it's not easy to imagine >> No, but I mean, it's not easy to imagine that and I'm sure that's my biggest fear that and I'm sure that's my biggest fear that and I'm sure that's my biggest fear again because those things being again because those things being again because those things being language-based, I can see a future where language-based, I can see a future where language-based, I can see a future where you have these very small companies that you have these very small companies that you have these very small companies that they create of digital agents that they create of digital agents that they create of digital agents that become friends with people and start become friends with people and start become friends with people and start extracting money out of them or or extracting money out of them or or extracting money out of them or or influencing them to buy some goods where influencing them to buy some goods where influencing them to buy some goods where they make a profit. I've told you they make a profit. I've told you they make a profit. I've told you already on the show, this is the future already on the show, this is the future already on the show, this is the future of advertising for me. I think of advertising for me. I think of advertising for me. I think advertising is going to totally advertising is going to totally advertising is going to totally disappear disappear disappear and there's going to be entities that and there's going to be entities that and there's going to be entities that talk to you and persuade you to buy talk to you and persuade you to buy talk to you and persuade you to buy stuff. stuff. stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The billboard will go away. They will be >> The billboard will go away. They will be >> The billboard will go away. They will be replaced by somebody popping up in your replaced by somebody popping up in your replaced by somebody popping up in your corner and say, "Hey, how are you today, corner and say, "Hey, how are you today, corner and say, "Hey, how are you today, lovely? lovely? lovely? Hey, I got these new things yesterday. Hey, I got these new things yesterday. Hey, I got these new things yesterday. You should buy one, too. No, but You should buy one, too. No, but You should buy one, too. No, but >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Anyway. >> Anyway. >> Anyway. >> No, yeah. I It's It's um >> No, yeah. I It's It's um >> No, yeah. I It's It's um What I What I kind of No, Proxy. There's What I What I kind of No, Proxy. There's What I What I kind of No, Proxy. There's a company a company a company called Proxy that I called Proxy that I called Proxy that I I uh wrote about I uh wrote about I uh wrote about Jeez, almost 7 years ago. Jeez, almost 7 years ago. Jeez, almost 7 years ago. Um Um Um and yes, hyper hyper-personalization.

and yes, hyper hyper-personalization. and yes, hyper hyper-personalization. They basically um They basically um They basically um mapping your your psyche. mapping your your psyche. mapping your your psyche. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Um yeah, it it's And you know, Metaverse >> Um yeah, it it's And you know, Metaverse >> Um yeah, it it's And you know, Metaverse was sort of a a staging ground for like was sort of a a staging ground for like was sort of a a staging ground for like what we're what we're what we're >> I mean, >> I mean, >> I mean, Cambridge Cambridge Analytica did was Cambridge Cambridge Analytica did was Cambridge Cambridge Analytica did was doing those kind of things as well in doing those kind of things as well in doing those kind of things as well in terms of influencing behavior. That's terms of influencing behavior. That's terms of influencing behavior. That's the same logic. And again, now we have the same logic. And again, now we have the same logic. And again, now we have the scale because of the compute power the scale because of the compute power the scale because of the compute power we have, so. we have, so. we have, so. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Anyway. >> Anyway. >> Anyway. >> Yeah. All right, so hey, thanks everyone >> Yeah. All right, so hey, thanks everyone >> Yeah. All right, so hey, thanks everyone for listening. Yeah, thanks for for listening. Yeah, thanks for for listening. Yeah, thanks for listening to our weekend um or end of listening to our weekend um or end of listening to our weekend um or end of the week rants. Um the week rants. Um the week rants. Um remember, we're all about community, so remember, we're all about community, so remember, we're all about community, so check out Elevator Our Communities at check out Elevator Our Communities at check out Elevator Our Communities at www.elevatorourcommunities.org and also follow IoT Coffee Talk at and also follow IoT Coffee Talk at www.iotcoffeetalk.com. We are not quite yet the Jerry Springer We are not quite yet the Jerry Springer of tech, of tech, of tech, but what we are definitely a unfiltered but what we are definitely a unfiltered but what we are definitely a unfiltered uh as honest as possible form for having uh as honest as possible form for having uh as honest as possible form for having discussions and debates on um you know, discussions and debates on um you know, discussions and debates on um you know, wide range of tech-related topics. But wide range of tech-related topics. But wide range of tech-related topics. But most importantly for us, it's a most importantly for us, it's a most importantly for us, it's a opportunity to decompress. Yeah, it's a opportunity to decompress. Yeah, it's a opportunity to decompress. Yeah, it's a tough week, but thank you so much and tough week, but thank you so much and tough week, but thank you so much and we'll see you next week.

we'll see you next week. we'll see you next week. >> All right.