IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 300 - "IoT of Back!" (Celebrating 6 years of IoT Coffee Talk!!)

Dang it. 200. Yes. Dang it. 200. Yes. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Happy 300. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> My hat. Look at all these bold guys >> My hat. Look at all these bold guys >> My hat. Look at all these bold guys here. here. here. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> All the famous people here. >> All the famous people here. >> All the famous people here. >> I know. >> I know. >> I know. >> Yes. Wow. 300. It's like that movie, >> Yes. Wow. 300. It's like that movie, >> Yes. Wow. 300. It's like that movie, right? You know. right? You know. right? You know. >> Tonight we'll dine in the shade. >> Tonight we'll dine in the shade. >> Tonight we'll dine in the shade. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Where the hell did you come from, man? >> Where the hell did you come from, man? >> Where the hell did you come from, man? >> Woohoo. Welcome. >> Woohoo. Welcome. >> Woohoo. Welcome. Hey, so welcome everyone to the 300th Hey, so welcome everyone to the 300th Hey, so welcome everyone to the 300th episode of IoT Coffee Talk episode of IoT Coffee Talk episode of IoT Coffee Talk and incredibly and incredibly and incredibly for all 300 episodes we have kept the for all 300 episodes we have kept the for all 300 episodes we have kept the production to a Wayne's World level. production to a Wayne's World level. production to a Wayne's World level. Right, Rob? Right, Rob? Right, Rob? >> It is a Wayne's World level. >> It is a Wayne's World level. >> It is a Wayne's World level. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. With a sports center. >> Yes. With a sports center. >> Yes. With a sports center. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. vibe on tech and IoT vibe on tech and IoT vibe on tech and IoT >> and all things. Yeah, >> and all things. Yeah, >> and all things. Yeah, >> right. You know, it's like game day for >> right. You know, it's like game day for >> right. You know, it's like game day for >> Oh my gosh, look at this.

>> Oh my gosh, look at this. >> Oh my gosh, look at this. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Look at this. Like the freaking Brady >> Look at this. Like the freaking Brady >> Look at this. Like the freaking Brady Bunch. It's crazy. Bunch. It's crazy. Bunch. It's crazy. >> Look at this lineup. It's like straight >> Look at this lineup. It's like straight >> Look at this lineup. It's like straight out of prison. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All look a little bit more like 80s >> All look a little bit more like 80s >> All look a little bit more like 80s Seattle. like Rob does. I mean, I'm I'm Seattle. like Rob does. I mean, I'm I'm Seattle. like Rob does. I mean, I'm I'm I'm feeling a lack of nana in my life I'm feeling a lack of nana in my life I'm feeling a lack of nana in my life right now. right now. right now. >> Oh jeez. >> Oh jeez. >> Oh jeez. >> I don't know if I can handle this. This >> I don't know if I can handle this. This >> I don't know if I can handle this. This is going to be crazy. So, yeah, remember is going to be crazy. So, yeah, remember is going to be crazy. So, yeah, remember everyone, uh we're just here to have everyone, uh we're just here to have everyone, uh we're just here to have fun. So, if you take us seriously, you fun. So, if you take us seriously, you fun. So, if you take us seriously, you have a real big problem. have a real big problem. have a real big problem. >> Yes, >> Yes, >> Yes, >> really big problem. And so, we highly >> really big problem. And so, we highly >> really big problem. And so, we highly recommend that you don't take us recommend that you don't take us recommend that you don't take us seriously. And if you do, check out seriously. And if you do, check out seriously. And if you do, check out insurance insurance insurance >> and it's all your fault. And If you >> and it's all your fault. And If you >> and it's all your fault. And If you don't know how to have fun, well, this don't know how to have fun, well, this don't know how to have fun, well, this is the wrong show for you. is the wrong show for you. is the wrong show for you. >> This is all about fun. >> This is all about fun. >> This is all about fun. >> Can't help you with that. >> Can't help you with that. >> Can't help you with that. >> This is all about fun with the smartest >> This is all about fun with the smartest >> This is all about fun with the smartest people on the planet. We are going to people on the planet. We are going to people on the planet. We are going to drop some gems drop some gems drop some gems >> of tech knowledge. Lots of stuff is >> of tech knowledge. Lots of stuff is >> of tech knowledge. Lots of stuff is going on out there.

going on out there. going on out there. >> Yeah, something something. Yes, >> Yeah, something something. Yes, >> Yeah, something something. Yes, >> something is going on. >> something is going on. >> something is going on. >> Opinions. Opinions for sure. >> Opinions. Opinions for sure. >> Opinions. Opinions for sure. >> Opinions. Strong opinions. >> Opinions. Strong opinions. >> Opinions. Strong opinions. >> Strong opin. But that's what people >> Strong opin. But that's what people >> Strong opin. But that's what people want, you know. None of this milktoast want, you know. None of this milktoast want, you know. None of this milktoast wishy-washy, wishy-washy, wishy-washy, you know, I'm just going to regurgitate you know, I'm just going to regurgitate you know, I'm just going to regurgitate this survey for unqualified people that this survey for unqualified people that this survey for unqualified people that I truth. I truth. I truth. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Truth. >> Truth. >> Truth. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, at the same time, take us seriously, >> So, at the same time, take us seriously, >> So, at the same time, take us seriously, but don't take us seriously. Don't make but don't take us seriously. Don't make but don't take us seriously. Don't make stock picks based on anything you say, stock picks based on anything you say, stock picks based on anything you say, you know, you know, you know, >> like the one gonna get right now. >> like the one gonna get right now. >> like the one gonna get right now. >> No, I'm not going to do there. Yeah. >> No, I'm not going to do there. Yeah. >> No, I'm not going to do there. Yeah. Right now, you should be running for the Right now, you should be running for the Right now, you should be running for the hills. hills. hills. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's getting ugly out there. >> Yeah. It's getting ugly out there. >> Yeah. It's getting ugly out there. really ugly. It's so good to see. It is. really ugly. It's so good to see. It is. really ugly. It's so good to see. It is. It is. You know, people It is. You know, people It is. You know, people >> people are afraid of AI now. All of a >> people are afraid of AI now. All of a >> people are afraid of AI now. All of a sudden, they're reading that viral post. sudden, they're reading that viral post. sudden, they're reading that viral post. >> They're uh all that stuff's going around >> They're uh all that stuff's going around >> They're uh all that stuff's going around and and and >> puke if we talk about that. >> puke if we talk about that. >> puke if we talk about that. >> And there's all that talk about AI >> And there's all that talk about AI >> And there's all that talk about AI wiping out all the software companies, wiping out all the software companies, wiping out all the software companies, you know, as soon as, you know, Claude you know, as soon as, you know, Claude you know, as soon as, you know, Claude added in some add-on plugin that wiped added in some add-on plugin that wiped added in some add-on plugin that wiped out like three or four different major out like three or four different major out like three or four different major companies.

companies. companies. >> Wipe out the bad coders. >> Wipe out the bad coders. >> Wipe out the bad coders. >> There you go. It's gonna wipe out the >> There you go. It's gonna wipe out the >> There you go. It's gonna wipe out the bad coders. So, there was that. Uh, if bad coders. So, there was that. Uh, if bad coders. So, there was that. Uh, if you've been watching the stock market you've been watching the stock market you've been watching the stock market like I do, uh, everything's collapsing. like I do, uh, everything's collapsing. like I do, uh, everything's collapsing. But also, there was a new thing, CBRE. But also, there was a new thing, CBRE. But also, there was a new thing, CBRE. Not that you know that, you know, Not that you know that, you know, Not that you know that, you know, there's real estate investment trust there's real estate investment trust there's real estate investment trust companies. companies. companies. >> They started to collapse yesterday >> They started to collapse yesterday >> They started to collapse yesterday because, wait for it, well, because, wait for it, well, because, wait for it, well, >> data center, >> data center, >> data center, >> commercial, well, it's weird. Commercial >> commercial, well, it's weird. Commercial >> commercial, well, it's weird. Commercial real estate has already been suffering real estate has already been suffering real estate has already been suffering because of people working from home, because of people working from home, because of people working from home, right? And so, they're not downtown in right? And so, they're not downtown in right? And so, they're not downtown in skyscrapers anymore. And so, so vacancy skyscrapers anymore. And so, so vacancy skyscrapers anymore. And so, so vacancy rates are over 20%. But then all of a rates are over 20%. But then all of a rates are over 20%. But then all of a sudden people are like started putting sudden people are like started putting sudden people are like started putting dots together and saying, "Well, wait a dots together and saying, "Well, wait a dots together and saying, "Well, wait a second. If AI is going to wipe out all second. If AI is going to wipe out all second. If AI is going to wipe out all the white collar professional workers the white collar professional workers the white collar professional workers that normally work in a skyscraper, then that normally work in a skyscraper, then that normally work in a skyscraper, then they're going to become even more empty. they're going to become even more empty. they're going to become even more empty. And so all the downtowns of every city And so all the downtowns of every city And so all the downtowns of every city in the world are going to be shell empty in the world are going to be shell empty in the world are going to be shell empty shells." And so all those real estate shells." And so all those real estate shells." And so all those real estate companies just started collapsing in companies just started collapsing in companies just started collapsing in commercial real estate. So there's lots commercial real estate. So there's lots commercial real estate. So there's lots of love, a lot of positivity. M of love, a lot of positivity. M of love, a lot of positivity. M >> but you know what Rob they uh but >> but you know what Rob they uh but >> but you know what Rob they uh but there's going to be a lot of folks that there's going to be a lot of folks that there's going to be a lot of folks that are going to fight that battle right you are going to fight that battle right you are going to fight that battle right you have a lot of powerful influential have a lot of powerful influential have a lot of powerful influential people people people >> coming from the you know data center AI >> coming from the you know data center AI >> coming from the you know data center AI side which is new money and then you side which is new money and then you side which is new money and then you have the old money of physical buildings have the old money of physical buildings have the old money of physical buildings right and the all the real estate right and the all the real estate right and the all the real estate inverse investment trust folks that we inverse investment trust folks that we inverse investment trust folks that we know about and they're not going to go know about and they're not going to go know about and they're not going to go down without a Uh we all have our

down without a Uh we all have our down without a Uh we all have our opinion regarding, you know, whether the opinion regarding, you know, whether the opinion regarding, you know, whether the return to the office is something to return to the office is something to return to the office is something to really bond and create company culture really bond and create company culture really bond and create company culture or just because dude, I got a lease. or just because dude, I got a lease. or just because dude, I got a lease. It's really expensive. I need butts and It's really expensive. I need butts and It's really expensive. I need butts and seats and it's not going to go down seats and it's not going to go down seats and it's not going to go down easy. I um while I'm not in Portland, easy. I um while I'm not in Portland, easy. I um while I'm not in Portland, Oregon anymore, I I you know, I still Oregon anymore, I I you know, I still Oregon anymore, I I you know, I still follow my local news follow my local news follow my local news >> and you know the value of real estate in >> and you know the value of real estate in >> and you know the value of real estate in Portland, I mean it's nowhere like it Portland, I mean it's nowhere like it Portland, I mean it's nowhere like it was uh let's just go precoid. Um so it's was uh let's just go precoid. Um so it's was uh let's just go precoid. Um so it's and it's like what else? So you know and it's like what else? So you know and it's like what else? So you know we've had um co okay people work from we've had um co okay people work from we've had um co okay people work from home then we have all sorts of protest home then we have all sorts of protest home then we have all sorts of protest real and some imaginary. There's there's real and some imaginary. There's there's real and some imaginary. There's there's some of that. Uh, now we have this no some of that. Uh, now we have this no some of that. Uh, now we have this no one's going to the office. We just want one's going to the office. We just want one's going to the office. We just want to build data centers. And you can have to build data centers. And you can have to build data centers. And you can have really good deals on commercial real really good deals on commercial real really good deals on commercial real estate in Portland, Oregon today. Don't estate in Portland, Oregon today. Don't estate in Portland, Oregon today. Don't make any financial moves make any financial moves make any financial moves >> cuz what's going to happen? The >> cuz what's going to happen? The >> cuz what's going to happen? The buildings don't go away. They're still buildings don't go away. They're still buildings don't go away. They're still there. Even if they get emptied out and there. Even if they get emptied out and there. Even if they get emptied out and even if the value of them goes to $1, even if the value of them goes to $1, even if the value of them goes to $1, someone will sweep in in future years someone will sweep in in future years someone will sweep in in future years and pick up all that stuff.

and pick up all that stuff. and pick up all that stuff. >> Indoor pickle ball courts. into the >> Indoor pickle ball courts. into the >> Indoor pickle ball courts. into the pickle ball ports. Yeah. pickle ball ports. Yeah. pickle ball ports. Yeah. >> No, actually also jokes remember jokes >> No, actually also jokes remember jokes >> No, actually also jokes remember jokes aside u these these buildings all over aside u these these buildings all over aside u these these buildings all over our beautiful cities have a a a tax our beautiful cities have a a a tax our beautiful cities have a a a tax burden to the localities the burden to the localities the burden to the localities the municipalities. So we actually do want municipalities. So we actually do want municipalities. So we actually do want these buildings to thrive so that they these buildings to thrive so that they these buildings to thrive so that they can pay their fair share and we can you can pay their fair share and we can you can pay their fair share and we can you know cover potholes and deliver you know know cover potholes and deliver you know know cover potholes and deliver you know simple services. So, let's let's it's simple services. So, let's let's it's simple services. So, let's let's it's got to come from somewhere. got to come from somewhere. got to come from somewhere. >> But David, what did you think about my >> But David, what did you think about my >> But David, what did you think about my idea? Remember, I wanted to build like idea? Remember, I wanted to build like idea? Remember, I wanted to build like the the V1, the MVP of the Matrix, like the the V1, the MVP of the Matrix, like the the V1, the MVP of the Matrix, like the primitive version of the Matrix the primitive version of the Matrix the primitive version of the Matrix >> because with all these people being >> because with all these people being >> because with all these people being displaced because AI, I know you all are displaced because AI, I know you all are displaced because AI, I know you all are thinking, what are we going to do with thinking, what are we going to do with thinking, what are we going to do with all the bodies? all the bodies? all the bodies? >> What are we going to do with all these >> What are we going to do with all these >> What are we going to do with all these what are we going to do with all these what are we going to do with all these what are we going to do with all these extra people? extra people? extra people? >> They're going to you're going to convert >> They're going to you're going to convert >> They're going to you're going to convert all these facilities into gyms, and all these facilities into gyms, and all these facilities into gyms, and we're going to have uh we're going to have uh we're going to have uh >> No, no. We're going to pause. >> No, no. We're going to pause. >> No, no. We're going to pause. >> Is it But is it really a gym, Leonard?

>> Is it But is it really a gym, Leonard? >> Is it But is it really a gym, Leonard? Is it really a gym? Where's the energy Is it really a gym? Where's the energy Is it really a gym? Where's the energy from that treadmill going? Is it from that treadmill going? Is it from that treadmill going? Is it >> going straight to the data center? >> going straight to the data center? >> going straight to the data center? >> Has the AI already built it? Are we in >> Has the AI already built it? Are we in >> Has the AI already built it? Are we in it now? it now? it now? >> If you want to earn your day's worth of >> If you want to earn your day's worth of >> If you want to earn your day's worth of credits to get fed, you will keep credits to get fed, you will keep credits to get fed, you will keep pedaling inside your pod, you know, and pedaling inside your pod, you know, and pedaling inside your pod, you know, and um and you know, that's how it's going um and you know, that's how it's going um and you know, that's how it's going to work. So, I think all that extra to work. So, I think all that extra to work. So, I think all that extra space, we're just going to fill and pull space, we're just going to fill and pull space, we're just going to fill and pull a pods and it's going to be the MVP of a pods and it's going to be the MVP of a pods and it's going to be the MVP of the matrix. So, I'm really super excited the matrix. So, I'm really super excited the matrix. So, I'm really super excited about all this, guys. about all this, guys. about all this, guys. >> Anthony, what's going on with you, man? >> Anthony, what's going on with you, man? >> Anthony, what's going on with you, man? It's been forever. It's been forever. It's been forever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, I It's been a while >> Yeah. You know, I It's been a while >> Yeah. You know, I It's been a while since I got a haircut, but uh I think since I got a haircut, but uh I think since I got a haircut, but uh I think the last time I saw you guys, it was the last time I saw you guys, it was the last time I saw you guys, it was >> uh probably at least over a year ago, >> uh probably at least over a year ago, >> uh probably at least over a year ago, but um it's been great hearing but um it's been great hearing but um it's been great hearing conversations. You know, we all panicked conversations. You know, we all panicked conversations. You know, we all panicked about the Y2K uh bug uh and we thought about the Y2K uh bug uh and we thought about the Y2K uh bug uh and we thought life might end. Uh, so seeing that we life might end. Uh, so seeing that we life might end. Uh, so seeing that we made it through the metaverse and made it through the metaverse and made it through the metaverse and through uh, Clubhouse and some other through uh, Clubhouse and some other through uh, Clubhouse and some other fads that have come and gone, uh, it's fads that have come and gone, uh, it's fads that have come and gone, uh, it's great to see people who really are great to see people who really are great to see people who really are grounded grounded grounded >> in business and technology. Uh, we can >> in business and technology. Uh, we can >> in business and technology. Uh, we can make it through just about anything. So, make it through just about anything. So, make it through just about anything. So, I'm not worried about the AI.

I'm not worried about the AI. I'm not worried about the AI. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now, I do think AI is going to be here >> Now, I do think AI is going to be here >> Now, I do think AI is going to be here much longer than some of the other feds. much longer than some of the other feds. much longer than some of the other feds. Um but there is just a lot of AI chaos Um but there is just a lot of AI chaos Um but there is just a lot of AI chaos and delusion and um and delusion and um and delusion and um un uncertainty going on right now and un uncertainty going on right now and un uncertainty going on right now and it'll settle down like AI is really in it'll settle down like AI is really in it'll settle down like AI is really in the elementary phase of learning. It's the elementary phase of learning. It's the elementary phase of learning. It's very rudimentary right now and there's a very rudimentary right now and there's a very rudimentary right now and there's a lot learning of hey it's not like buying lot learning of hey it's not like buying lot learning of hey it's not like buying paper towels off the shelf. uh AI all paper towels off the shelf. uh AI all paper towels off the shelf. uh AI all different um and everybody's wondering different um and everybody's wondering different um and everybody's wondering where is my information going where is where is my information going where is where is my information going where is it being stored who's seeing it what it being stored who's seeing it what it being stored who's seeing it what security risk and vulnerabilities um am security risk and vulnerabilities um am security risk and vulnerabilities um am I being exposed to so I being exposed to so I being exposed to so >> of unknowns >> of unknowns >> of unknowns >> I disagree I think our age group is >> I disagree I think our age group is >> I disagree I think our age group is asking those questions anyone younger is asking those questions anyone younger is asking those questions anyone younger is just straight up accept I'll take the just straight up accept I'll take the just straight up accept I'll take the paper towel one ply three ply I don't paper towel one ply three ply I don't paper towel one ply three ply I don't care take what's on the shelf. No care take what's on the shelf. No care take what's on the shelf. No problem.

problem. problem. >> And you're right, they are >> And you're right, they are >> And you're right, they are >> they're collecting a lot more than we >> they're collecting a lot more than we >> they're collecting a lot more than we had ever anticipate. Like what's this had ever anticipate. Like what's this had ever anticipate. Like what's this with the the lady the ABC anchor or with the the lady the ABC anchor or with the the lady the ABC anchor or whatever got his her mother got whatever got his her mother got whatever got his her mother got kidnapped or something. kidnapped or something. kidnapped or something. >> Go three. >> Go three. >> Go three. >> Yeah. And then they I think they >> Yeah. And then they I think they >> Yeah. And then they I think they identified the the um perpetrator with identified the the um perpetrator with identified the the um perpetrator with you know through Google archives or you know through Google archives or you know through Google archives or something. I don't know. Debbie, you something. I don't know. Debbie, you something. I don't know. Debbie, you probably know the story a hell of a lot probably know the story a hell of a lot probably know the story a hell of a lot better. better. better. >> Camera, >> Camera, >> Camera, >> but people were shocked that that >> but people were shocked that that >> but people were shocked that that footage was even there. footage was even there. footage was even there. >> I was shocked, >> I was shocked, >> I was shocked, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> What sort of consent was provided >> What sort of consent was provided >> What sort of consent was provided >> and and you know, oh um I had some some >> and and you know, oh um I had some some >> and and you know, oh um I had some some executive state to me that um the executive state to me that um the executive state to me that um the privacy rights in the US are the privacy rights in the US are the privacy rights in the US are the benchmark of the world. benchmark of the world. benchmark of the world. >> I don't know when when >> I don't know when when >> I don't know when when >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. >> Oh no, no, no. I I mean there are people >> Oh no, no, no. I I mean there are people >> Oh no, no, no. I I mean there are people who believe that. There are people who who believe that. There are people who who believe that. There are people who believe that. Debbie, believe that. Debbie, believe that. Debbie, >> that's a cue for you to let the secret.

>> that's a cue for you to let the secret. >> that's a cue for you to let the secret. >> No, man. No, man. No. >> No, man. No, man. No. >> No, man. No, man. No. >> We've lost Leonard. We've lost him on >> We've lost Leonard. We've lost him on >> We've lost Leonard. We've lost him on episode 300. The man lost his damn mind. episode 300. The man lost his damn mind. episode 300. The man lost his damn mind. >> He did. He did. Yeah. >> He did. He did. Yeah. >> He did. He did. Yeah. >> No, no, no. You can't be the forerunner >> No, no, no. You can't be the forerunner >> No, no, no. You can't be the forerunner if you haven't actually done any if you haven't actually done any if you haven't actually done any regulation. So, regulation. So, regulation. So, >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> So, yeah. No, no. It's very very very >> So, yeah. No, no. It's very very very >> So, yeah. No, no. It's very very very scarce up in here. Uh mostly the states scarce up in here. Uh mostly the states scarce up in here. Uh mostly the states and it's kind of a patchwork. Um but and it's kind of a patchwork. Um but and it's kind of a patchwork. Um but really Europe is leading on regulation really Europe is leading on regulation really Europe is leading on regulation sides. But you know that issue brought sides. But you know that issue brought sides. But you know that issue brought up you know it is a big issue to think up you know it is a big issue to think up you know it is a big issue to think about. So and this is something I tell about. So and this is something I tell about. So and this is something I tell people all the time. Okay. So the issue people all the time. Okay. So the issue people all the time. Okay. So the issue is that apparently uh this woman she had is that apparently uh this woman she had is that apparently uh this woman she had a Ring doorbell camera and the C she had a Ring doorbell camera and the C she had a Ring doorbell camera and the C she had not subscribed to the feature where it not subscribed to the feature where it not subscribed to the feature where it saved the video but somehow uh Google saved the video but somehow uh Google saved the video but somehow uh Google was able to I guess because she's the was able to I guess because she's the was able to I guess because she's the mother of a famous person was able to mother of a famous person was able to mother of a famous person was able to get this video that that wasn't supposed get this video that that wasn't supposed get this video that that wasn't supposed to be saved basically. And so people are to be saved basically. And so people are to be saved basically. And so people are like well how did that happen? like how like well how did that happen? like how like well how did that happen? like how did this video that you know you didn't did this video that you know you didn't did this video that you know you didn't subscribe to the service and then they subscribe to the service and then they subscribe to the service and then they had it and so a couple things I tell had it and so a couple things I tell had it and so a couple things I tell people like data data systems are made people like data data systems are made people like data data systems are made to to retain data is is is made to to to retain data is is is made to to to retain data is is is made to remember things not to forget it so the remember things not to forget it so the remember things not to forget it so the forgetting happens later so I guess the forgetting happens later so I guess the forgetting happens later so I guess the the thing hadn't forgotten it yet um but the thing hadn't forgotten it yet um but the thing hadn't forgotten it yet um but you know it's it remains to be seen you know it's it remains to be seen you know it's it remains to be seen whether that's something that would have

whether that's something that would have whether that's something that would have happened you know if if that company happened you know if if that company happened you know if if that company would have done that if it was not for a would have done that if it was not for a would have done that if it was not for a famous person. I don't famous person. I don't famous person. I don't >> I was really surprised. I thought that >> I was really surprised. I thought that >> I was really surprised. I thought that if you weren't paying for a if you weren't paying for a if you weren't paying for a subscription, the camera would never subscription, the camera would never subscription, the camera would never stream the video to the cloud in the stream the video to the cloud in the stream the video to the cloud in the first place. first place. first place. >> No, >> No, >> No, >> but apparently it was streaming the >> but apparently it was streaming the >> but apparently it was streaming the whole time even though she wasn't paying whole time even though she wasn't paying whole time even though she wasn't paying for a subscription. for a subscription. for a subscription. >> Yeah, maybe maybe you just can't access >> Yeah, maybe maybe you just can't access >> Yeah, maybe maybe you just can't access it, but it's obviously doing it, right? it, but it's obviously doing it, right? it, but it's obviously doing it, right? You know, which is which is where Pete, You know, which is which is where Pete, You know, which is which is where Pete, you need to come in on on edge AI, you need to come in on on edge AI, you need to come in on on edge AI, right? this is this is the whole this is right? this is this is the whole this is right? this is this is the whole this is the whole thing that's going to try and the whole thing that's going to try and the whole thing that's going to try and fix this problem, right? fix this problem, right? fix this problem, right? >> Well, I mean, it's useless to use as >> Well, I mean, it's useless to use as >> Well, I mean, it's useless to use as training data and I think that the training data and I think that the training data and I think that the question of whether or not the US is the question of whether or not the US is the question of whether or not the US is the benchmark depends on who you're talking benchmark depends on who you're talking benchmark depends on who you're talking to because I think if you're talking to to because I think if you're talking to to because I think if you're talking to people trying to train models, the US is people trying to train models, the US is people trying to train models, the US is the benchmark because you can access the benchmark because you can access the benchmark because you can access such a vast sway of information to train such a vast sway of information to train such a vast sway of information to train models on. Whereas in Europe, GDPR, models on. Whereas in Europe, GDPR, models on. Whereas in Europe, GDPR, etc., there's a lot more. Obviously, etc., there's a lot more. Obviously, etc., there's a lot more. Obviously, there's not one Debbie, you know far there's not one Debbie, you know far there's not one Debbie, you know far more about this than I do. I mean more about this than I do. I mean more about this than I do. I mean there's so much more lockdown and more there's so much more lockdown and more there's so much more lockdown and more control for the individual around how control for the individual around how control for the individual around how their data is used. It's you know if their data is used. It's you know if their data is used. It's you know if you're trying to train a model you're trying to train a model you're trying to train a model particularly model that does facial particularly model that does facial particularly model that does facial recognition or you know attitude recognition or you know attitude recognition or you know attitude assessment or sentiment analy you need assessment or sentiment analy you need assessment or sentiment analy you need you need the data and you come to the US you need the data and you come to the US you need the data and you come to the US to get it. Yeah, I mean it depends on to get it. Yeah, I mean it depends on to get it. Yeah, I mean it depends on what kind of data, right? Everyone, you what kind of data, right? Everyone, you what kind of data, right? Everyone, you know, that's the problem. People know, that's the problem. People know, that's the problem. People generalize AI or people generalize data.

generalize AI or people generalize data. generalize AI or people generalize data. >> Uh they ignore >> Uh they ignore >> Uh they ignore >> the issue the issue there is that >> the issue the issue there is that >> the issue the issue there is that there's no data model in the neural there's no data model in the neural there's no data model in the neural network and that makes it that makes it network and that makes it that makes it network and that makes it that makes it very uh unclear what is what because you very uh unclear what is what because you very uh unclear what is what because you cannot point at the data in a neural cannot point at the data in a neural cannot point at the data in a neural network. So this is one examples that I network. So this is one examples that I network. So this is one examples that I I asked the Google VO theo3 really cool I asked the Google VO theo3 really cool I asked the Google VO theo3 really cool videos to do uh like um like something videos to do uh like um like something videos to do uh like um like something with me and Yan and then it basically with me and Yan and then it basically with me and Yan and then it basically said no we cannot do that because we said no we cannot do that because we said no we cannot do that because we probably and it's probably it won't work probably and it's probably it won't work probably and it's probably it won't work for you as well you know you're with for you as well you know you're with for you as well you know you're with your face too you've been a few times on your face too you've been a few times on your face too you've been a few times on YouTube and then it says no I cannot do YouTube and then it says no I cannot do YouTube and then it says no I cannot do that this is they they marked us already that this is they they marked us already that this is they they marked us already as public figures but then the question as public figures but then the question as public figures but then the question is you already implemented at something is you already implemented at something is you already implemented at something to recognize my face as a public figure to recognize my face as a public figure to recognize my face as a public figure figure without my consent. figure without my consent. figure without my consent. >> So kind of >> So kind of >> So kind of >> we're already past the point >> we're already past the point >> we're already past the point >> where kind of this is really a mind >> where kind of this is really a mind >> where kind of this is really a mind because because because >> I kind of you're already you're already >> I kind of you're already you're already >> I kind of you're already you're already and u um I mean this is I had the same and u um I mean this is I had the same and u um I mean this is I had the same thing in Dubai at the airport. We just thing in Dubai at the airport. We just thing in Dubai at the airport. We just scanned your scan your face then we use scanned your scan your face then we use scanned your scan your face then we use it for biometric use. No no you you it for biometric use. No no you you it for biometric use. No no you you already scanned my face. this is a already scanned my face. this is a already scanned my face. this is a vanity check like so but yeah vanity check like so but yeah vanity check like so but yeah >> it's a consent it's I think I think >> it's a consent it's I think I think >> it's a consent it's I think I think you're right it's a consent problem you're right it's a consent problem you're right it's a consent problem right so the fact that it was doing it right so the fact that it was doing it right so the fact that it was doing it without the consent is the main issue without the consent is the main issue without the consent is the main issue you know regardless of training the you know regardless of training the you know regardless of training the models obviously that's important but if models obviously that's important but if models obviously that's important but if you don't have explicit consent then you don't have explicit consent then you don't have explicit consent then there's a grave issue there right there's a grave issue there right there's a grave issue there right >> you cannot consent in a neural network

>> you cannot consent in a neural network >> you cannot consent in a neural network because the neural network doesn't because the neural network doesn't because the neural network doesn't >> the thing doesn't >> the thing doesn't >> the thing doesn't >> you you can't >> you you can't >> you you can't >> it doesn't know you cannot point to like >> it doesn't know you cannot point to like >> it doesn't know you cannot point to like here's a here's Here's a a database with here's a here's Here's a a database with here's a here's Here's a a database with a table uh of a user and that's just a table uh of a user and that's just a table uh of a user and that's just that's the the crazy thing. Yeah. that's the the crazy thing. Yeah. that's the the crazy thing. Yeah. >> So, you're bringing up something I >> So, you're bringing up something I >> So, you're bringing up something I brought up two and a half years ago. brought up two and a half years ago. brought up two and a half years ago. >> Oh, of course. Yeah. You already brought >> Oh, of course. Yeah. You already brought >> Oh, of course. Yeah. You already brought it up. Yeah. it up. Yeah. it up. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Dude, I'm Dude, I I'm way >> Oh, yeah. Dude, I'm Dude, I I'm way >> Oh, yeah. Dude, I'm Dude, I I'm way ahead of the curve, dude. ahead of the curve, dude. ahead of the curve, dude. >> No, no, no, no. You're You're bringing >> No, no, no, no. You're You're bringing >> No, no, no, no. You're You're bringing up something really important because um up something really important because um up something really important because um you know what? vector databases um these you know what? vector databases um these you know what? vector databases um these uh models uh you cannot security trim uh models uh you cannot security trim uh models uh you cannot security trim them. This is the biggest issue and this them. This is the biggest issue and this them. This is the biggest issue and this is why you didn't see rag take off like is why you didn't see rag take off like is why you didn't see rag take off like everyone was saying that it could and everyone was saying that it could and everyone was saying that it could and something I observed long time ago something I observed long time ago something I observed long time ago talking to developers and AI uh talking to developers and AI uh talking to developers and AI uh researchers as well as you know folks researchers as well as you know folks researchers as well as you know folks that are trying to build enterprise that are trying to build enterprise that are trying to build enterprise applications for this stuff. folks from applications for this stuff. folks from applications for this stuff. folks from Microsoft actually um and Apple and they Microsoft actually um and Apple and they Microsoft actually um and Apple and they were saying this stuff is not going to were saying this stuff is not going to were saying this stuff is not going to fly. So now you see all these jokers on fly. So now you see all these jokers on fly. So now you see all these jokers on CNBC u talking about how Apple's behind CNBC u talking about how Apple's behind CNBC u talking about how Apple's behind and they're disappointed by uh Apple's and they're disappointed by uh Apple's and they're disappointed by uh Apple's you know uh backtracking on their you know uh backtracking on their you know uh backtracking on their commitments to Siri. They know they do commitments to Siri. They know they do commitments to Siri. They know they do know how hard this is and how impossible know how hard this is and how impossible know how hard this is and how impossible it is to make some of these it is to make some of these it is to make some of these architectures secure.

architectures secure. architectures secure. So, um, people are learning slowly. So, um, people are learning slowly. So, um, people are learning slowly. Um, and yes, I did write about this two Um, and yes, I did write about this two Um, and yes, I did write about this two and a half years ago. and a half years ago. and a half years ago. >> Okay, Apple fan. I have the receipts. >> Okay, Apple fan. I have the receipts. >> Okay, Apple fan. I have the receipts. >> Hey, everybody's having a challenge, you >> Hey, everybody's having a challenge, you >> Hey, everybody's having a challenge, you know, whether it's Lenovo, it's Samsung, know, whether it's Lenovo, it's Samsung, know, whether it's Lenovo, it's Samsung, they're all having, dude, look at the they're all having, dude, look at the they're all having, dude, look at the goofy architectures they're coming out goofy architectures they're coming out goofy architectures they're coming out for, you know, personal edge AI. This is for, you know, personal edge AI. This is for, you know, personal edge AI. This is this is this is this this example right this is this is this this example right this is this is this this example right where where they turn on AI on Microsoft where where they turn on AI on Microsoft where where they turn on AI on Microsoft on your Microsoft stack and the first on your Microsoft stack and the first on your Microsoft stack and the first thing that employers employees do is thing that employers employees do is thing that employers employees do is they ask the AI what their colleagues they ask the AI what their colleagues they ask the AI what their colleagues salary is and directly gives them an salary is and directly gives them an salary is and directly gives them an answer like this is exactly what you're answer like this is exactly what you're answer like this is exactly what you're saying it's like like you can't you saying it's like like you can't you saying it's like like you can't you cannot like I think what what's the the cannot like I think what what's the the cannot like I think what what's the the data that's even more unstructured than data that's even more unstructured than data that's even more unstructured than neural networks are sharepoints neural networks are sharepoints neural networks are sharepoints Microsoft sharepoints and and but that Microsoft sharepoints and and but that Microsoft sharepoints and and but that also gives a lot of uh governance also gives a lot of uh governance also gives a lot of uh governance transitions. Yeah. transitions. Yeah. transitions. Yeah. >> And then imagine them hallucinating on >> And then imagine them hallucinating on >> And then imagine them hallucinating on you and then misrepresenting you. I you and then misrepresenting you. I you and then misrepresenting you. I mean, this is Debbie, we talked about mean, this is Debbie, we talked about mean, this is Debbie, we talked about this a lot.

this a lot. this a lot. >> Five years ago, probably. >> Five years ago, probably. >> Five years ago, probably. >> Eight years ago. >> Eight years ago. >> Eight years ago. >> Eight years ago. >> Eight years ago. >> Eight years ago. >> No, we um No, the the metaverse episode >> No, we um No, the the metaverse episode >> No, we um No, the the metaverse episode that we did. that we did. that we did. >> Yeah. Just listen back on that, >> Yeah. Just listen back on that, >> Yeah. Just listen back on that, right, Mark? right, Mark? right, Mark? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That that's an uncanny episode, right? >> That that's an uncanny episode, right? >> That that's an uncanny episode, right? We talk about models don't forget. We talk about models don't forget. We talk about models don't forget. >> That's right. And they don't forget. >> That's right. And they don't forget. >> That's right. And they don't forget. >> They don't forget. >> They don't forget. >> They don't forget. >> 200 episodes ago. Yeah. >> 200 episodes ago. Yeah. >> 200 episodes ago. Yeah. >> Yeah. Something like that. When we were >> Yeah. Something like that. When we were >> Yeah. Something like that. When we were children doing this show. Yeah. Hey, by children doing this show. Yeah. Hey, by children doing this show. Yeah. Hey, by the way, the way, the way, >> don't forget uh it's Big Brother, the >> don't forget uh it's Big Brother, the >> don't forget uh it's Big Brother, the industrial metaverse. industrial metaverse. industrial metaverse. >> Industrial Metaverse. >> Industrial Metaverse. >> Industrial Metaverse. >> Industrial. >> Industrial. >> Industrial. >> That means that there's like an MEES, >> That means that there's like an MEES, >> That means that there's like an MEES, you know, or SCADA or something like you know, or SCADA or something like you know, or SCADA or something like that. Is that what that means? that. Is that what that means? that. Is that what that means? So, also speaking of industrial stuff, So, also speaking of industrial stuff, So, also speaking of industrial stuff, we need to say a big congratulations to we need to say a big congratulations to we need to say a big congratulations to Alistister on his new gig with Alistister on his new gig with Alistister on his new gig with >> Momenta. >> Momenta. >> Momenta. >> Momenta. >> Momenta. >> Momenta. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Thank you. I became a VC event. Finally, >> Thank you. I became a VC event. Finally, >> Thank you. I became a VC event. Finally, it happened. it happened. it happened. >> It finally happened. >> It finally happened. >> It finally happened. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I know they they most of you I think >> I know they they most of you I think >> I know they they most of you I think know Ken. Um I I know Ken. I was the know Ken. Um I I know Ken. I was the know Ken. Um I I know Ken. I was the original I was the I guess the first LP original I was the I guess the first LP original I was the I guess the first LP in their first industrial fund. um they in their first industrial fund. um they in their first industrial fund. um they did a great job uh for scene seeding did a great job uh for scene seeding did a great job uh for scene seeding doing lots of seed investments in the doing lots of seed investments in the doing lots of seed investments in the Lurawan ecosystem as the link of those Lurawan ecosystem as the link of those Lurawan ecosystem as the link of those um and and and you know we will work um and and and you know we will work um and and and you know we will work with a lot of VCs I'm not going to say with a lot of VCs I'm not going to say with a lot of VCs I'm not going to say anything bad about VCs but there are anything bad about VCs but there are anything bad about VCs but there are some VCs that are on the side of some VCs that are on the side of some VCs that are on the side of industry and and kind of driving from industry and and kind of driving from industry and and kind of driving from that position of understanding what the

that position of understanding what the that position of understanding what the hell the end customer is trying to do hell the end customer is trying to do hell the end customer is trying to do and there are some VCs who live in and there are some VCs who live in and there are some VCs who live in spreadsheets and they're looking for you spreadsheets and they're looking for you spreadsheets and they're looking for you know threeear turnaround in a return and know threeear turnaround in a return and know threeear turnaround in a return and you know It's it's relatively easy to um you know It's it's relatively easy to um you know It's it's relatively easy to um raise funding these days. I say raise funding these days. I say raise funding these days. I say relatively easy having been through the relatively easy having been through the relatively easy having been through the pain of the in the last year. Um there's pain of the in the last year. Um there's pain of the in the last year. Um there's money out there. Um I think increasingly money out there. Um I think increasingly money out there. Um I think increasingly for startups, it's very important who for startups, it's very important who for startups, it's very important who that to choose who they take the money that to choose who they take the money that to choose who they take the money from and and what comes with the money. from and and what comes with the money. from and and what comes with the money. Um and that can be both a positive, you Um and that can be both a positive, you Um and that can be both a positive, you know, they give me contacts, they give know, they give me contacts, they give know, they give me contacts, they give me they give me direct, they help me out me they give me direct, they help me out me they give me direct, they help me out with blah blah blah, and it can be with blah blah blah, and it can be with blah blah blah, and it can be negative. You know, they're breathing negative. You know, they're breathing negative. You know, they're breathing down my neck all the time. um and and down my neck all the time. um and and down my neck all the time. um and and forcing me to make short-term decisions forcing me to make short-term decisions forcing me to make short-term decisions that are not in the interest of the that are not in the interest of the that are not in the interest of the business. And Ken is obviously in that business. And Ken is obviously in that business. And Ken is obviously in that in that first category. So, what I'll be in that first category. So, what I'll be in that first category. So, what I'll be doing, I'm I'm not going to be doing doing, I'm I'm not going to be doing doing, I'm I'm not going to be doing lots of VC investing stuff. Mostly I'm lots of VC investing stuff. Mostly I'm lots of VC investing stuff. Mostly I'm working with um the some companies in working with um the some companies in working with um the some companies in the portfolio. Actually, the majority of the portfolio. Actually, the majority of the portfolio. Actually, the majority of the ones I'm working with at the moment, the ones I'm working with at the moment, the ones I'm working with at the moment, we invested in through the SEC fund to we invested in through the SEC fund to we invested in through the SEC fund to help them figure out, you know, the it's help them figure out, you know, the it's help them figure out, you know, the it's the age old problem. you know, they the age old problem. you know, they the age old problem. you know, they figured out a technical solution to a figured out a technical solution to a figured out a technical solution to a tricky problem, but how do I get to tricky problem, but how do I get to tricky problem, but how do I get to market and how do I, you know, how do I market and how do I, you know, how do I market and how do I, you know, how do I end up with users using this, you know, end up with users using this, you know, end up with users using this, you know, this this innovation? Um, and and you this this innovation? Um, and and you this this innovation? Um, and and you know, I mean, that that turns out to be know, I mean, that that turns out to be know, I mean, that that turns out to be the hardest thing always. Um, and I the hardest thing always. Um, and I the hardest thing always. Um, and I think it's going to become increasingly think it's going to become increasingly think it's going to become increasingly the only hard thing when when, you know, the only hard thing when when, you know, the only hard thing when when, you know, all the tools that we see AI um uh all the tools that we see AI um uh all the tools that we see AI um uh creating in the code development space creating in the code development space creating in the code development space start to make the process of figuring start to make the process of figuring start to make the process of figuring out a technical solution to a hard out a technical solution to a hard out a technical solution to a hard problem a lot easier. Um, I think the problem a lot easier. Um, I think the problem a lot easier. Um, I think the the problem that will remain is great.

the problem that will remain is great. the problem that will remain is great. How do I cut through all the noise and How do I cut through all the noise and How do I cut through all the noise and get people to buy? So, but thank you. get people to buy? So, but thank you. get people to buy? So, but thank you. I'm I'm really excited. I like Ken a I'm I'm really excited. I like Ken a I'm I'm really excited. I like Ken a lot. I've known him for years and years. lot. I've known him for years and years. lot. I've known him for years and years. That's That's That's >> great. >> great. >> great. >> Congratulations, dude. That's awesome. >> Congratulations, dude. That's awesome. >> Congratulations, dude. That's awesome. >> You know, you have a big competitor, >> You know, you have a big competitor, >> You know, you have a big competitor, >> right? Momenta. It's called IoT Coffee >> right? Momenta. It's called IoT Coffee >> right? Momenta. It's called IoT Coffee Talk, bro. Talk, bro. Talk, bro. >> Oh, yeah. Nobody saw that coming. Wow. >> Oh, yeah. Nobody saw that coming. Wow. >> Oh, yeah. Nobody saw that coming. Wow. >> Because we have the best fund in IoT. We >> Because we have the best fund in IoT. We >> Because we have the best fund in IoT. We have 33% annualized returns. We have have 33% annualized returns. We have have 33% annualized returns. We have made thousands of investments in all the made thousands of investments in all the made thousands of investments in all the hot startups and it's thanks to our hot startups and it's thanks to our hot startups and it's thanks to our advisory and strategery magic delivery advisory and strategery magic delivery advisory and strategery magic delivery that we are winning. So you and Ken that we are winning. So you and Ken that we are winning. So you and Ken watch out. watch out. watch out. If I if I come up with a competitor idea If I if I come up with a competitor idea If I if I come up with a competitor idea to Thomas Donkeyy's launch this week of to Thomas Donkeyy's launch this week of to Thomas Donkeyy's launch this week of Entire and I know I know Thomas Donkey Entire and I know I know Thomas Donkey Entire and I know I know Thomas Donkey from the days of Hockey when when I from the days of Hockey when when I from the days of Hockey when when I worked with Sam Genenheimer to bring worked with Sam Genenheimer to bring worked with Sam Genenheimer to bring them into Microsoft. When I come up with them into Microsoft. When I come up with them into Microsoft. When I come up with a with a proposal for a competitor, you a with a proposal for a competitor, you a with a proposal for a competitor, you you guys are all going to cut me a $60 you guys are all going to cut me a $60 you guys are all going to cut me a $60 million check on a $300 million million check on a $300 million million check on a $300 million valuation in the seed round.

>> You know, excellent. >> You know, excellent. >> So, who should I send my address to? >> So, who should I send my address to? >> So, who should I send my address to? >> Yeah. As most people here know, we we >> Yeah. As most people here know, we we >> Yeah. As most people here know, we we have returned literally tens of dollars have returned literally tens of dollars have returned literally tens of dollars to ours. to ours. to ours. >> Our LPs are so happy with us to coffee >> Our LPs are so happy with us to coffee >> Our LPs are so happy with us to coffee talk. Um, you know, it's interesting you talk. Um, you know, it's interesting you talk. Um, you know, it's interesting you kind of said tools. So, as a lot of you kind of said tools. So, as a lot of you kind of said tools. So, as a lot of you know, I'm good friends my coding partner know, I'm good friends my coding partner know, I'm good friends my coding partner Claude and been building a lot of crazy Claude and been building a lot of crazy Claude and been building a lot of crazy stuff, but I really had to try out the stuff, but I really had to try out the stuff, but I really had to try out the new GPT 5.3 codecs because I was hearing new GPT 5.3 codecs because I was hearing new GPT 5.3 codecs because I was hearing a lot of positive stuff with it a lot of positive stuff with it a lot of positive stuff with it >> and I have to say I'm super impressed. >> and I have to say I'm super impressed. >> and I have to say I'm super impressed. Um, I was like, you know, I came up with Um, I was like, you know, I came up with Um, I was like, you know, I came up with this crazy idea to create an enterprise this crazy idea to create an enterprise this crazy idea to create an enterprise brain that has all the knowledge since brain that has all the knowledge since brain that has all the knowledge since the beginning of the company and knows the beginning of the company and knows the beginning of the company and knows everything. You know, you could ask it everything. You know, you could ask it everything. You know, you could ask it any question. Anyway, super any question. Anyway, super any question. Anyway, super intelligence. I want to build it. I, you intelligence. I want to build it. I, you intelligence. I want to build it. I, you know, instead of just being an analyst know, instead of just being an analyst know, instead of just being an analyst and saying, here's my new futurecape and saying, here's my new futurecape and saying, here's my new futurecape thing about this things coming, I'm thing about this things coming, I'm thing about this things coming, I'm like, I'm going to build the thing. So, like, I'm going to build the thing. So, like, I'm going to build the thing. So, I started building it using this GPT53 I started building it using this GPT53 I started building it using this GPT53 codeex. And so far, I'm super impressed. codeex. And so far, I'm super impressed. codeex. And so far, I'm super impressed. I mean, it's I mean, it's I mean, it's >> wow, cranking out architecture diagrams, >> wow, cranking out architecture diagrams, >> wow, cranking out architecture diagrams, you know, it's like, okay, this thing is you know, it's like, okay, this thing is you know, it's like, okay, this thing is built here. It's going to be this built here. It's going to be this built here. It's going to be this platform. Uh, the bottom layer is going platform. Uh, the bottom layer is going platform. Uh, the bottom layer is going to be this data layer. every kind of to be this data layer. every kind of to be this data layer. every kind of data from any type, any document, any data from any type, any document, any data from any type, any document, any anything, any database table, you name anything, any database table, you name anything, any database table, you name it. IoT, real world, video. Uh, it. IoT, real world, video. Uh, it. IoT, real world, video. Uh, >> by the way, Rob, I think corporate super >> by the way, Rob, I think corporate super >> by the way, Rob, I think corporate super intelligence is an oxymoron. So, intelligence is an oxymoron. So, intelligence is an oxymoron. So, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you got the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you got the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you got the AI later layer, you know, so make it AI later layer, you know, so make it AI later layer, you know, so make it making it simple to download pre-trained

making it simple to download pre-trained making it simple to download pre-trained open source LLMs, SLMs, that kind of open source LLMs, SLMs, that kind of open source LLMs, SLMs, that kind of thing. And that layer there thing. And that layer there thing. And that layer there >> on that PC back there. >> on that PC back there. >> on that PC back there. >> It does. It does. Yeah, that's a >> It does. It does. Yeah, that's a >> It does. It does. Yeah, that's a 5150 back there. Yeah, absolutely. 5150 back there. Yeah, absolutely. 5150 back there. Yeah, absolutely. That's as good as And it still boots up That's as good as And it still boots up That's as good as And it still boots up DOSs. It runs like a champ actually. DOSs. It runs like a champ actually. DOSs. It runs like a champ actually. Yeah, they don't make them like it used Yeah, they don't make them like it used Yeah, they don't make them like it used to. to. to. >> Is this Rob? Is this Rob Tiffany or is >> Is this Rob? Is this Rob Tiffany or is >> Is this Rob? Is this Rob Tiffany or is the big Labowski? the big Labowski? the big Labowski? >> It's the big Labowski. It's the big >> It's the big Labowski. It's the big >> It's the big Labowski. It's the big Labowski. You're right. You're right. Labowski. You're right. You're right. Labowski. You're right. You're right. >> The white Russian on the corner. >> The white Russian on the corner. >> The white Russian on the corner. >> Yeah, I was going to say that glass of >> Yeah, I was going to say that glass of >> Yeah, I was going to say that glass of milk he's drinking. milk he's drinking. milk he's drinking. >> Yes, that's it. >> Yes, that's it. >> Yes, that's it. >> Anyway, I'm really impressed back there. >> Anyway, I'm really impressed back there. >> Anyway, I'm really impressed back there. >> I agree with you on 5.3. I mean I I mean >> I agree with you on 5.3. I mean I I mean >> I agree with you on 5.3. I mean I I mean you you more than know more than anyone you you more than know more than anyone you you more than know more than anyone else. I'm a don't give me any task that else. I'm a don't give me any task that else. I'm a don't give me any task that involves writing code cuz I'm utterly involves writing code cuz I'm utterly involves writing code cuz I'm utterly at it. Um I use Claude code to at it. Um I use Claude code to at it. Um I use Claude code to write an application actually a series write an application actually a series write an application actually a series of applications that takes a 2D of applications that takes a 2D of applications that takes a 2D handdrawn sketch of a product and turns handdrawn sketch of a product and turns handdrawn sketch of a product and turns it into a 3DM and an STL file. Um and I it into a 3DM and an STL file. Um and I it into a 3DM and an STL file. Um and I did that with claw code and it worked. did that with claw code and it worked. did that with claw code and it worked. Okay. I'm now going through the process Okay. I'm now going through the process Okay. I'm now going through the process of redoing that with with 5.3 and it's of redoing that with with 5.3 and it's of redoing that with with 5.3 and it's the the the number of steps that you the the the number of steps that you the the the number of steps that you have to go through is massively have to go through is massively have to go through is massively concatenated. It gives you um I would concatenated. It gives you um I would concatenated. It gives you um I would say quai user feedback on what the say quai user feedback on what the say quai user feedback on what the experience is like using the app. I mean experience is like using the app. I mean experience is like using the app. I mean it it's and I I started that yesterday it it's and I I started that yesterday it it's and I I started that yesterday and it's like holy crap. It's it's quite and it's like holy crap. It's it's quite and it's like holy crap. It's it's quite it's quite something. And I think the it's quite something. And I think the it's quite something. And I think the thing in the developments like you know thing in the developments like you know thing in the developments like you know entire I don't know how many of you saw entire I don't know how many of you saw entire I don't know how many of you saw that announcement I think that is one of

that announcement I think that is one of that announcement I think that is one of the early the early the early and you know it's going to be a team and you know it's going to be a team and you know it's going to be a team that comes from Microsoft DevD you know that comes from Microsoft DevD you know that comes from Microsoft DevD you know that's where Thomas comes from and that's where Thomas comes from and that's where Thomas comes from and GitHub where he was CEO um that type of GitHub where he was CEO um that type of GitHub where he was CEO um that type of tool that is designed to help developers tool that is designed to help developers tool that is designed to help developers use AI in a um enterprisegrade way to be use AI in a um enterprisegrade way to be use AI in a um enterprisegrade way to be able to track the prompts and able to track the prompts and able to track the prompts and assumptions and the process through assumptions and the process through assumptions and the process through which the AI generated the code. I think which the AI generated the code. I think which the AI generated the code. I think that is the first of what will be a that is the first of what will be a that is the first of what will be a series of tools because the development series of tools because the development series of tools because the development paradigm in with AI is utterly paradigm in with AI is utterly paradigm in with AI is utterly different. I mean a developer is no different. I mean a developer is no different. I mean a developer is no longer, you know, going through writing longer, you know, going through writing longer, you know, going through writing 500 lines of code and then going back 500 lines of code and then going back 500 lines of code and then going back through and debugging and all of that through and debugging and all of that through and debugging and all of that stuff's gone. I mean that's just gone. stuff's gone. I mean that's just gone. stuff's gone. I mean that's just gone. you know, you're you're much more you know, you're you're much more you know, you're you're much more sitting in a cockpit, you know, defining sitting in a cockpit, you know, defining sitting in a cockpit, you know, defining what you want the outcome to be, you what you want the outcome to be, you what you want the outcome to be, you know, looking at suggestions for know, looking at suggestions for know, looking at suggestions for structure and flow and selecting which structure and flow and selecting which structure and flow and selecting which one. I mean, that's just a different one. I mean, that's just a different one. I mean, that's just a different mindset and I think a different tool mindset and I think a different tool mindset and I think a different tool kit. kit. kit. >> Yeah, it's a different flow. But hey, I >> Yeah, it's a different flow. But hey, I >> Yeah, it's a different flow. But hey, I got a I got a jam and I wanted to give a got a I got a jam and I wanted to give a got a I got a jam and I wanted to give a shout out to all you guys. Love you shout out to all you guys. Love you shout out to all you guys. Love you guys. I I can't believe we've been doing guys. I I can't believe we've been doing guys. I I can't believe we've been doing this for six years. And uh something um this for six years. And uh something um this for six years. And uh something um I want to say to our audience um you I want to say to our audience um you I want to say to our audience um you know Rob loves to make fun about how know Rob loves to make fun about how know Rob loves to make fun about how precient we are and how how much precient we are and how how much precient we are and how how much foresight we have. We do and that proof foresight we have. We do and that proof foresight we have. We do and that proof is six years of IoT coffee talk. Just is six years of IoT coffee talk. Just is six years of IoT coffee talk. Just listen back on episodes. And as as much listen back on episodes. And as as much listen back on episodes. And as as much as Rob makes fun of that, it's faking as Rob makes fun of that, it's faking as Rob makes fun of that, it's faking true. Listen. And we have 300 episodes

true. Listen. And we have 300 episodes true. Listen. And we have 300 episodes that you can reflect back on because that you can reflect back on because that you can reflect back on because part of knowing tech is knowing the part of knowing tech is knowing the part of knowing tech is knowing the genealogy and the the paths to how we genealogy and the the paths to how we genealogy and the the paths to how we got to where we are today. And uh got to where we are today. And uh got to where we are today. And uh there's too many people who don't know there's too many people who don't know there's too many people who don't know and have the wrong perspective. That's and have the wrong perspective. That's and have the wrong perspective. That's why we're suffering all this AI nonsense why we're suffering all this AI nonsense why we're suffering all this AI nonsense narratives today that are forcing narratives today that are forcing narratives today that are forcing commercial properties uh to drop their commercial properties uh to drop their commercial properties uh to drop their rents and reduce um the amount of taxes rents and reduce um the amount of taxes rents and reduce um the amount of taxes that cities can u collect and we need that cities can u collect and we need that cities can u collect and we need those right. You got to pay for all this those right. You got to pay for all this those right. You got to pay for all this good stuff somehow. But anyways, love good stuff somehow. But anyways, love good stuff somehow. But anyways, love you guys and um have fun. you guys and um have fun. you guys and um have fun. >> All right. All right. Go do your much >> All right. All right. Go do your much >> All right. All right. Go do your much more important thing. Yes. Go ahead. Go more important thing. Yes. Go ahead. Go more important thing. Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead. Just go. Yeah. Take care. ahead. Just go. Yeah. Take care. ahead. Just go. Yeah. Take care. >> See you guys at in Barcelona. Everybody >> See you guys at in Barcelona. Everybody >> See you guys at in Barcelona. Everybody there. Will you be there, Lester? there. Will you be there, Lester? there. Will you be there, Lester? >> No, I'm not not this year. Sadly, I'll >> No, I'm not not this year. Sadly, I'll >> No, I'm not not this year. Sadly, I'll be in Barcelona later in the year. I'll be in Barcelona later in the year. I'll be in Barcelona later in the year. I'll let you know when I'm in Europe next. let you know when I'm in Europe next. let you know when I'm in Europe next. But no, But no, But no, >> Nermberg. See you in Nerburg. >> Nermberg. See you in Nerburg. >> Nermberg. See you in Nerburg. >> Nmber. >> Nmber. >> Nmber. >> Yeah, absolutely.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You know, take care. >> You know, take care. >> You know, take care. >> Take care. Good seeing you, man. Yeah. >> Take care. Good seeing you, man. Yeah. >> Take care. Good seeing you, man. Yeah. So, so Alistister, you get to work with So, so Alistister, you get to work with So, so Alistister, you get to work with my buddy Hans. my buddy Hans. my buddy Hans. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually have >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually have >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually have a call with him last morning. a call with him last morning. a call with him last morning. >> Yeah, I love that guy. He's he was uh he >> Yeah, I love that guy. He's he was uh he >> Yeah, I love that guy. He's he was uh he was on advisory board for a startup I was on advisory board for a startup I was on advisory board for a startup I did a long long time ago. He's a great did a long long time ago. He's a great did a long long time ago. He's a great guy. Yeah. And so uh guy. Yeah. And so uh guy. Yeah. And so uh >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> I guess you guys are doing >> I guess you guys are doing >> I guess you guys are doing >> chairing he's chairing a panel at our >> chairing he's chairing a panel at our >> chairing he's chairing a panel at our San Diego event at the end of March. San Diego event at the end of March. San Diego event at the end of March. >> Oh, that's great. >> Oh, that's great. >> Oh, that's great. >> Startup AJI startup panel with Hans as >> Startup AJI startup panel with Hans as >> Startup AJI startup panel with Hans as moderator was his purpose. moderator was his purpose. moderator was his purpose. >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> you know, Mabin >> you know, Mabin >> you know, Mabin is on the team as well. I know him. you is on the team as well. I know him. you is on the team as well. I know him. you know, it's it's kind of Bill Pew and I, know, it's it's kind of Bill Pew and I, know, it's it's kind of Bill Pew and I, you know, Mike Dbeck, Dbeck. Um, you you know, Mike Dbeck, Dbeck. Um, you you know, Mike Dbeck, Dbeck. Um, you know, it's a it's a it's a kind of good know, it's a it's a it's a kind of good know, it's a it's a it's a kind of good it's a good group of folks. Um, it's a good group of folks. Um, it's a good group of folks. Um, >> that's awesome. >> that's awesome. >> that's awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, um, speaking of Edge AI >> You know, um, speaking of Edge AI >> You know, um, speaking of Edge AI conference coming up in Siago, conference coming up in Siago, conference coming up in Siago, >> Siago, >> Siago, >> Siago, >> I did watch that great video that you >> I did watch that great video that you >> I did watch that great video that you created.

created. created. >> Why didn't you use AI to generate it? I >> Why didn't you use AI to generate it? I >> Why didn't you use AI to generate it? I was disappointed. was disappointed. was disappointed. Good question. Good question. Good question. >> First of all, I thought that I thought >> First of all, I thought that I thought >> First of all, I thought that I thought if you're I had empathy for a Ron if you're I had empathy for a Ron if you're I had empathy for a Ron Burgundy impersonator. I thought, what a Burgundy impersonator. I thought, what a Burgundy impersonator. I thought, what a great way to make a living. So, I wonder great way to make a living. So, I wonder great way to make a living. So, I wonder >> does he actually make a living being a >> does he actually make a living being a >> does he actually make a living being a Ron Burgundy impersonator? Ron Burgundy impersonator? Ron Burgundy impersonator? >> Apparently, he does. So, uh, >> Apparently, he does. So, uh, >> Apparently, he does. So, uh, >> was that from Cameo or >> was that from Cameo or >> was that from Cameo or >> and I said, "Hey, can you do this >> and I said, "Hey, can you do this >> and I said, "Hey, can you do this thing?" Actually, I used I used Clawude thing?" Actually, I used I used Clawude thing?" Actually, I used I used Clawude to generate the script because I what I to generate the script because I what I to generate the script because I what I did was I took our event information. I did was I took our event information. I did was I took our event information. I said, "Rewrite this in the style of Ron said, "Rewrite this in the style of Ron said, "Rewrite this in the style of Ron Burgundy from Anchor Man." And it Burgundy from Anchor Man." And it Burgundy from Anchor Man." And it actually did a pretty good job. Pretty actually did a pretty good job. Pretty actually did a pretty good job. Pretty good job. Um, and then we kind of good job. Um, and then we kind of good job. Um, and then we kind of iterated a little bit. Yeah. So, I iterated a little bit. Yeah. So, I iterated a little bit. Yeah. So, I thought it was it was uh, you know, it thought it was it was uh, you know, it thought it was it was uh, you know, it was a lot of fun to do it. And, uh, was a lot of fun to do it. And, uh, was a lot of fun to do it. And, uh, >> he offered to come to the event, by the >> he offered to come to the event, by the >> he offered to come to the event, by the way, in in character. way, in in character. way, in in character. >> Yes. Uh that would have been cool. >> Yes. Uh that would have been cool. >> Yes. Uh that would have been cool. >> Might be a little over the top, but uh >> Might be a little over the top, but uh >> Might be a little over the top, but uh it's it's it's >> actually turned out he was booked for >> actually turned out he was booked for >> actually turned out he was booked for another tech conference at the same another tech conference at the same another tech conference at the same time, which is kind of time, which is kind of time, which is kind of >> apparently that's a thing. But uh yes, >> apparently that's a thing. But uh yes, >> apparently that's a thing. But uh yes, Santiago March Santiago March Santiago March >> San Diego. He's really in demand.

>> San Diego. He's really in demand. >> San Diego. He's really in demand. >> Yes, I love that stuff. Got to pull out >> Yes, I love that stuff. Got to pull out >> Yes, I love that stuff. Got to pull out the flute out of his sleeve, you know. the flute out of his sleeve, you know. the flute out of his sleeve, you know. >> That's right. The flute. Yeah, I should >> That's right. The flute. Yeah, I should >> That's right. The flute. Yeah, I should have I should have told him. have I should have told him. have I should have told him. >> I know. I know what style I'm going to >> I know. I know what style I'm going to >> I know. I know what style I'm going to do for my next presentation. I'm going do for my next presentation. I'm going do for my next presentation. I'm going to put it through Claude and say, to put it through Claude and say, to put it through Claude and say, "Right, rewrite this in the style of Ron "Right, rewrite this in the style of Ron "Right, rewrite this in the style of Ron Burgundy." And Burgundy." And Burgundy." And >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> that gets people going. I love that. So, >> that gets people going. I love that. So, >> that gets people going. I love that. So, Mr. Dr. Digital Twin, Bill Pew, how you Mr. Dr. Digital Twin, Bill Pew, how you Mr. Dr. Digital Twin, Bill Pew, how you doing, man? doing, man? doing, man? >> I'm all good, man. Look, let me, you >> I'm all good, man. Look, let me, you >> I'm all good, man. Look, let me, you know, I I hear you guys talking about, know, I I hear you guys talking about, know, I I hear you guys talking about, you know, the coding and whatnot. You you know, the coding and whatnot. You you know, the coding and whatnot. You know how I feel about that Um, uh, know how I feel about that Um, uh, know how I feel about that Um, uh, literally this week, I fired someone for literally this week, I fired someone for literally this week, I fired someone for vibe coding and putting that into vibe coding and putting that into vibe coding and putting that into one of my twins. one of my twins. one of my twins. >> Yeah. Never. Never. I never. I mean, I'm >> Yeah. Never. Never. I never. I mean, I'm >> Yeah. Never. Never. I never. I mean, I'm Look, quick scenario. We're doing it for Look, quick scenario. We're doing it for Look, quick scenario. We're doing it for traffic. I'm looking at the I'm looking traffic. I'm looking at the I'm looking traffic. I'm looking at the I'm looking at the code and I'm like, at the code and I'm like, at the code and I'm like, this is why it's not working. He said, this is why it's not working. He said, this is why it's not working. He said, what? I said, there's altitude. what? I said, there's altitude. what? I said, there's altitude. You put the schema through Claude and You put the schema through Claude and You put the schema through Claude and asked it to give you the output and asked it to give you the output and asked it to give you the output and there's altitude. This is traffic, not there's altitude. This is traffic, not there's altitude. This is traffic, not air traffic, air traffic, air traffic, >> right? H you you don't know today it's >> right? H you you don't know today it's >> right? H you you don't know today it's not not not >> could be a flying car.

>> could be a flying car. >> could be a flying car. >> I'm sorry. He he was writing he was >> I'm sorry. He he was writing he was >> I'm sorry. He he was writing he was writing that for 15 years from now. My writing that for 15 years from now. My writing that for 15 years from now. My bad. You know what? I should give him bad. You know what? I should give him bad. You know what? I should give him his job back. his job back. his job back. But But But >> I do I do think that's the problem, >> I do I do think that's the problem, >> I do I do think that's the problem, Bill. I mean that and that's why you Bill. I mean that and that's why you Bill. I mean that and that's why you things like entire are starting to things like entire are starting to things like entire are starting to appear because yeah you've got a piece appear because yeah you've got a piece appear because yeah you've got a piece of code that was generated by an AI. of code that was generated by an AI. of code that was generated by an AI. What the is in it? I mean you've What the is in it? I mean you've What the is in it? I mean you've got no idea. It could be it could have a got no idea. It could be it could have a got no idea. It could be it could have a nice back door to whoever the hell you nice back door to whoever the hell you nice back door to whoever the hell you know. So I I you can't that's the know. So I I you can't that's the know. So I I you can't that's the limitation I think that is and that's limitation I think that is and that's limitation I think that is and that's why you know little little startup gets why you know little little startup gets why you know little little startup gets a 300 million valuation you know at seed a 300 million valuation you know at seed a 300 million valuation you know at seed stage because I think a lot of stage because I think a lot of stage because I think a lot of enterprises are looking at the potential enterprises are looking at the potential enterprises are looking at the potential of AI code generation and and realizing of AI code generation and and realizing of AI code generation and and realizing at the same time that they can't use it. at the same time that they can't use it. at the same time that they can't use it. I mean, how how do you defend liability I mean, how how do you defend liability I mean, how how do you defend liability if you've got a a code base that that if you've got a a code base that that if you've got a a code base that that that you know created an issue crashed a that you know created an issue crashed a that you know created an issue crashed a car or you know if you have a if you car or you know if you have a if you car or you know if you have a if you have a code base that AI was generated have a code base that AI was generated have a code base that AI was generated how do you ensure your li your company how do you ensure your li your company how do you ensure your li your company against that liability who's going to against that liability who's going to against that liability who's going to take that contract who's going to take that contract who's going to take that contract who's going to because you have no literal no literal because you have no literal no literal because you have no literal no literal way of of of providing any shortity or way of of of providing any shortity or way of of of providing any shortity or guarantee that the code is functional guarantee that the code is functional guarantee that the code is functional and fit for purpose and fit for purpose and fit for purpose >> 100% >> 100% >> 100% >> and the company has to be responsible >> and the company has to be responsible >> and the company has to be responsible right you can't blame the AI All right.

right you can't blame the AI All right. right you can't blame the AI All right. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Not only that, I I mean, I'm thinking I >> Not only that, I I mean, I'm thinking I >> Not only that, I I mean, I'm thinking I just played out the scenario. I'm like, just played out the scenario. I'm like, just played out the scenario. I'm like, we put this into production. There's an we put this into production. There's an we put this into production. There's an accident that happens and it says accident that happens and it says accident that happens and it says because the vehicle was this high. because the vehicle was this high. because the vehicle was this high. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And and it's like, well, wait a minute. >> And and it's like, well, wait a minute. >> And and it's like, well, wait a minute. Where'd that come from? Where'd that come from? Where'd that come from? >> And it all the way back to us. >> And it all the way back to us. >> And it all the way back to us. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> I mean, that whole thing of corporate >> I mean, that whole thing of corporate >> I mean, that whole thing of corporate respons the old argument is always like, respons the old argument is always like, respons the old argument is always like, well, if a Tesla crashes into someone, well, if a Tesla crashes into someone, well, if a Tesla crashes into someone, whose fault is it? Is it the software whose fault is it? Is it the software whose fault is it? Is it the software developers? Is it the car? Because if developers? Is it the car? Because if developers? Is it the car? Because if it's not the software developers because it's not the software developers because it's not the software developers because the software developer used an AI tool the software developer used an AI tool the software developer used an AI tool to generate the code, then whose fault to generate the code, then whose fault to generate the code, then whose fault is it? If it's the cars, then that means is it? If it's the cars, then that means is it? If it's the cars, then that means that you are imbuing the car with legal that you are imbuing the car with legal that you are imbuing the car with legal personhood for for some for a car for a personhood for for some for a car for a personhood for for some for a car for a vehicle to be legally liable for vehicle to be legally liable for vehicle to be legally liable for something. It is de facto a a a per something. It is de facto a a a per something. It is de facto a a a per persona in in in legal terms. And and persona in in in legal terms. And and persona in in in legal terms. And and therefore, does it have rights? You therefore, does it have rights? You therefore, does it have rights? You know, does it have if it if it's if it know, does it have if it if it's if it know, does it have if it if it's if it has personhood? We haven't has personhood? We haven't has personhood? We haven't differentiated the concept of personhood differentiated the concept of personhood differentiated the concept of personhood between people who are humans and and between people who are humans and and between people who are humans and and things that are not humans. So all the things that are not humans. So all the things that are not humans. So all the rules apply if you're a if you're a rules apply if you're a if you're a rules apply if you're a if you're a legal person, you know, legal person, you know, legal person, you know, >> when you sign those contracts, I can >> when you sign those contracts, I can >> when you sign those contracts, I can guarantee you that that company name is guarantee you that that company name is guarantee you that that company name is liable.

liable. liable. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> That's true. >> But humans humans make errors, right? >> But humans humans make errors, right? >> But humans humans make errors, right? >> Yeah. Humans make errors as well, right? >> Yeah. Humans make errors as well, right? >> Yeah. Humans make errors as well, right? So there's bunch of code that's been So there's bunch of code that's been So there's bunch of code that's been shipped on things that are supposed to shipped on things that are supposed to shipped on things that are supposed to be autonomous that you know don't behave be autonomous that you know don't behave be autonomous that you know don't behave um deterministically and and and you um deterministically and and and you um deterministically and and and you know get into a wall whatever and and know get into a wall whatever and and know get into a wall whatever and and you you enhance things along the way. you you enhance things along the way. you you enhance things along the way. There's like some super interesting work There's like some super interesting work There's like some super interesting work happening in gentic AI where you have happening in gentic AI where you have happening in gentic AI where you have hybrid architecture where you would hybrid architecture where you would hybrid architecture where you would actually fall back to a deterministic actually fall back to a deterministic actually fall back to a deterministic piece of code to act with the tools that piece of code to act with the tools that piece of code to act with the tools that interact with the hardware. Uh and and interact with the hardware. Uh and and interact with the hardware. Uh and and you have like this kind of a Oh, Rick is you have like this kind of a Oh, Rick is you have like this kind of a Oh, Rick is riding. riding. riding. >> You're on, bro. Good timing. Good >> You're on, bro. Good timing. Good >> You're on, bro. Good timing. Good timing. No. So, so human humans make timing. No. So, so human humans make timing. No. So, so human humans make errors. Now, now if you if you imagine errors. Now, now if you if you imagine errors. Now, now if you if you imagine well the actual state is is of AI is well the actual state is is of AI is well the actual state is is of AI is such that you can't trust today the such that you can't trust today the such that you can't trust today the piece of code that AI has been spitting piece of code that AI has been spitting piece of code that AI has been spitting out. But once you put on processes like out. But once you put on processes like out. But once you put on processes like we have when we have human coders where we have when we have human coders where we have when we have human coders where you have testing where you have reviews you have testing where you have reviews you have testing where you have reviews where you have all of that now you where you have all of that now you where you have all of that now you transfer that into an agentic AI world transfer that into an agentic AI world transfer that into an agentic AI world where you have an an agent that is where you have an an agent that is where you have an an agent that is specialized in testing another agent's specialized in testing another agent's specialized in testing another agent's code before before pushing that PR out.

code before before pushing that PR out. code before before pushing that PR out. Um I mean that that's going to happen Um I mean that that's going to happen Um I mean that that's going to happen that's happening. That's how these uh that's happening. That's how these uh that's happening. That's how these uh you know tools are becoming better and you know tools are becoming better and you know tools are becoming better and better. At some point we will have AI better. At some point we will have AI better. At some point we will have AI generating code as good as what humans generating code as good as what humans generating code as good as what humans would have been able to. We will I mean would have been able to. We will I mean would have been able to. We will I mean at some point uh maybe not today but it at some point uh maybe not today but it at some point uh maybe not today but it will happen. Um the the the the analogy will happen. Um the the the the analogy will happen. Um the the the the analogy I like to use to to reassure some I like to use to to reassure some I like to use to to reassure some developers out there is like hey did you developers out there is like hey did you developers out there is like hey did you notice that in airplanes you still have notice that in airplanes you still have notice that in airplanes you still have a pilot a pilot a pilot >> but 95% of the flight is automated. The >> but 95% of the flight is automated. The >> but 95% of the flight is automated. The 5% left is the pilot wants to have fun 5% left is the pilot wants to have fun 5% left is the pilot wants to have fun or there is some situation that all the or there is some situation that all the or there is some situation that all the auto automatic things are not have never auto automatic things are not have never auto automatic things are not have never encountered before and because it's all encountered before and because it's all encountered before and because it's all deterministic they cannot adapt to it. deterministic they cannot adapt to it. deterministic they cannot adapt to it. So you have to have a human in in the So you have to have a human in in the So you have to have a human in in the loop here and and so I mean pilots still loop here and and so I mean pilots still loop here and and so I mean pilots still need it but you need one pilot for a big need it but you need one pilot for a big need it but you need one pilot for a big ass airplane. uh you don't need to have ass airplane. uh you don't need to have ass airplane. uh you don't need to have like 10 of them and redundancy or whatn like 10 of them and redundancy or whatn like 10 of them and redundancy or whatn not and uh you know for coding that's not and uh you know for coding that's not and uh you know for coding that's going to be the same at some point as going to be the same at some point as going to be the same at some point as well.

well. well. >> Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I >> Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I >> Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with it will be it could don't disagree with it will be it could don't disagree with it will be it could be. But what I'm saying is that for be. But what I'm saying is that for be. But what I'm saying is that for critical infrastructure today, you've critical infrastructure today, you've critical infrastructure today, you've got to be kidding me that you're got to be kidding me that you're got to be kidding me that you're gonna release any bit of code that is gonna release any bit of code that is gonna release any bit of code that is going to this is a vision zero scenar going to this is a vision zero scenar going to this is a vision zero scenar scenario where a vehicle you're trying scenario where a vehicle you're trying scenario where a vehicle you're trying to reduce the number of fatalities at an to reduce the number of fatalities at an to reduce the number of fatalities at an intersection and the the the agent that intersection and the the the agent that intersection and the the the agent that caught the code uh mishap is me. I'm the caught the code uh mishap is me. I'm the caught the code uh mishap is me. I'm the agent. agent. agent. >> I mean, I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not for >> I mean, I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not for >> I mean, I'm sorry. I'm not I'm not for this. You You're working. You're working this. You You're working. You're working this. You You're working. You're working for a you're working for a company. We for a you're working for a company. We for a you're working for a company. We are contracted to do these things before are contracted to do these things before are contracted to do these things before we release it to production. I'm telling we release it to production. I'm telling we release it to production. I'm telling you that here's the schema that's to be you that here's the schema that's to be you that here's the schema that's to be used and you need to generate these used and you need to generate these used and you need to generate these outputs. You don't generate those outputs. You don't generate those outputs. You don't generate those outputs, get the out of my outputs, get the out of my outputs, get the out of my business, business, business, >> right? Cuz the companies are no matter >> right? Cuz the companies are no matter >> right? Cuz the companies are no matter how you, how you, how you, you know, doll it up, okay, you're the you know, doll it up, okay, you're the you know, doll it up, okay, you're the company is responsible for what goes in company is responsible for what goes in company is responsible for what goes in and what comes out, okay? So it doesn't and what comes out, okay? So it doesn't and what comes out, okay? So it doesn't even whatever happens in the middle even whatever happens in the middle even whatever happens in the middle that's what we're talking about. But that's what we're talking about. But that's what we're talking about. But your response just like you said, you your response just like you said, you your response just like you said, you know, they weren't if if there was a know, they weren't if if there was a know, they weren't if if there was a problem with the code, they weren't problem with the code, they weren't problem with the code, they weren't going to go back and talk to that coder.

going to go back and talk to that coder. going to go back and talk to that coder. They're going to go talk to Bill. They're going to go talk to Bill. They're going to go talk to Bill. They're going to talk to his company, They're going to talk to his company, They're going to talk to his company, right? right? right? >> That's the issue. That's the problem. >> That's the issue. That's the problem. >> That's the issue. That's the problem. >> And see, I have a vacation spot in the >> And see, I have a vacation spot in the >> And see, I have a vacation spot in the Dominican Republic that I'm trying to Dominican Republic that I'm trying to Dominican Republic that I'm trying to visit. I'm not trying to be in debt visit. I'm not trying to be in debt visit. I'm not trying to be in debt paying somebody for the rest of my life paying somebody for the rest of my life paying somebody for the rest of my life because this coder had a decided to use because this coder had a decided to use because this coder had a decided to use claude instead of do the damn job. claude instead of do the damn job. claude instead of do the damn job. >> I I think Olivier's uh comment about >> I I think Olivier's uh comment about >> I I think Olivier's uh comment about testing too. Actually, to me that's the testing too. Actually, to me that's the testing too. Actually, to me that's the Achilles heel. And I'll tell you why is Achilles heel. And I'll tell you why is Achilles heel. And I'll tell you why is even we've had automated testing for a even we've had automated testing for a even we've had automated testing for a while, right? A lot of us have been while, right? A lot of us have been while, right? A lot of us have been doing that. A lot of companies have been doing that. A lot of companies have been doing that. A lot of companies have been doing that. The problem is what's the doing that. The problem is what's the doing that. The problem is what's the measure of the correct result? Like if measure of the correct result? Like if measure of the correct result? Like if you can't define what the actual success you can't define what the actual success you can't define what the actual success or failure for that test is, which is or failure for that test is, which is or failure for that test is, which is one thing for very deterministic stuff, one thing for very deterministic stuff, one thing for very deterministic stuff, 2 plus 2 is four. When you start to get 2 plus 2 is four. When you start to get 2 plus 2 is four. When you start to get into these kind of vague fuzzy control into these kind of vague fuzzy control into these kind of vague fuzzy control scenarios like you, you know, again, a scenarios like you, you know, again, a scenarios like you, you know, again, a card in there, what's the measure of card in there, what's the measure of card in there, what's the measure of goodness? Then minimizing the number of goodness? Then minimizing the number of goodness? Then minimizing the number of people you kill. I I don't know. I don't people you kill. I I don't know. I don't people you kill. I I don't know. I don't that's that's that's >> that's what it is.

>> that's what it is. >> that's what it is. >> That is that is it right there. what >> That is that is it right there. what >> That is that is it right there. what you're saying is it and and like I said you're saying is it and and like I said you're saying is it and and like I said if we we have those measures the code if we we have those measures the code if we we have those measures the code kept failing and he was like no it's kept failing and he was like no it's kept failing and he was like no it's good it's a bug over here and I'm like good it's a bug over here and I'm like good it's a bug over here and I'm like no you got to be kidding me give me your no you got to be kidding me give me your no you got to be kidding me give me your code code code >> y and in that case you're right Bill >> y and in that case you're right Bill >> y and in that case you're right Bill that's a human error like the guy who that's a human error like the guy who that's a human error like the guy who was supposed to monitor what that AI was supposed to monitor what that AI was supposed to monitor what that AI agent was doing didn't do his job so you agent was doing didn't do his job so you agent was doing didn't do his job so you fired him like good on you that's a fired him like good on you that's a fired him like good on you that's a right move because that was a human right move because that was a human right move because that was a human error error error >> right yeah >> right yeah >> right yeah >> and yes and because I work for one of >> and yes and because I work for one of >> and yes and because I work for one of those weird analyst firms that makes those weird analyst firms that makes those weird analyst firms that makes crazy predictions. Here is an apppropo crazy predictions. Here is an apppropo crazy predictions. Here is an apppropo prediction from IDC. Up to 20% of these prediction from IDC. Up to 20% of these prediction from IDC. Up to 20% of these organizations will projected to face organizations will projected to face organizations will projected to face lawsuits, regulatory fines, and CIO lawsuits, regulatory fines, and CIO lawsuits, regulatory fines, and CIO dismissals by 2030 due to inadequate dismissals by 2030 due to inadequate dismissals by 2030 due to inadequate controls over autonomous AI agents. controls over autonomous AI agents. controls over autonomous AI agents. You're going to get fired. You're going You're going to get fired. You're going You're going to get fired. You're going to get sued. to get sued. to get sued. >> And you won't be able to be in the >> And you won't be able to be in the >> And you won't be able to be in the Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic. Dominican Republic. >> Yeah, you can you can see that being the >> Yeah, you can you can see that being the >> Yeah, you can you can see that being the case, right? Because ultimately people case, right? Because ultimately people case, right? Because ultimately people are lazy and they'll let the AI just are lazy and they'll let the AI just are lazy and they'll let the AI just spit out the code. Won't bother checking spit out the code. Won't bother checking spit out the code. Won't bother checking it. Olivia, your point about the AI say it. Olivia, your point about the AI say it. Olivia, your point about the AI say >> suddenly relevant.

>> suddenly relevant. >> suddenly relevant. >> Good enough. And it's the Greek >> Good enough. And it's the Greek >> Good enough. And it's the Greek philosopher mediocrities. philosopher mediocrities. philosopher mediocrities. >> There we go. >> Hang on. >> Hang on. >> Sorry to interrupt, Tom. >> Sorry to interrupt, Tom. >> Sorry to interrupt, Tom. >> Yeah. No, no, no. All good. I mean, >> Yeah. No, no, no. All good. I mean, >> Yeah. No, no, no. All good. I mean, perfect timing. anything that requires perfect timing. anything that requires perfect timing. anything that requires accuracy to you know we're talking life accuracy to you know we're talking life accuracy to you know we're talking life life death liberty stuff like that I life death liberty stuff like that I life death liberty stuff like that I mean you just you have to and I don't mean you just you have to and I don't mean you just you have to and I don't like the term human in the loop I like like the term human in the loop I like like the term human in the loop I like to say human in the lead in this type of to say human in the lead in this type of to say human in the lead in this type of situation I think a human should be situation I think a human should be situation I think a human should be leading in that situation so yeah leading in that situation so yeah leading in that situation so yeah >> I mean what does everybody think do you >> I mean what does everybody think do you >> I mean what does everybody think do you there is one I mean not not wishing to there is one I mean not not wishing to there is one I mean not not wishing to return to the depths of depression that return to the depths of depression that return to the depths of depression that I we were in a couple of weeks ago. Um, I we were in a couple of weeks ago. Um, I we were in a couple of weeks ago. Um, does the developer then become the does the developer then become the does the developer then become the equivalent of the dead man switched on a equivalent of the dead man switched on a equivalent of the dead man switched on a subway train? The the fact that there's subway train? The the fact that there's subway train? The the fact that there's a human there, you know, with a finger a human there, you know, with a finger a human there, you know, with a finger on the button and if they die, you know, on the button and if they die, you know, on the button and if they die, you know, the train stops. I mean, is that is that the train stops. I mean, is that is that the train stops. I mean, is that is that what developers destiny is? You know, if what developers destiny is? You know, if what developers destiny is? You know, if there is such a thing as a developer, there is such a thing as a developer, there is such a thing as a developer, you know, in in in 10 years time, are we you know, in in in 10 years time, are we you know, in in in 10 years time, are we just the dead man switch?

just the dead man switch? just the dead man switch? >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. or the or the or the >> yeah pro probably >> yeah pro probably >> yeah pro probably >> I no I actually I don't believe so >> I no I actually I don't believe so >> I no I actually I don't believe so because the dead man switch is going to because the dead man switch is going to because the dead man switch is going to be some piece of deterministic real-time be some piece of deterministic real-time be some piece of deterministic real-time code code code >> that that has been proven to be 100% >> that that has been proven to be 100% >> that that has been proven to be 100% reliable there that exists right we know reliable there that exists right we know reliable there that exists right we know that we all know that that we all know that that we all know that >> and so that's going to be where these >> and so that's going to be where these >> and so that's going to be where these hybrid architecture will be super hybrid architecture will be super hybrid architecture will be super interesting where the the AI agent that interesting where the the AI agent that interesting where the the AI agent that is on a probabilistic you know path will is on a probabilistic you know path will is on a probabilistic you know path will hand off to the deterministic piece of hand off to the deterministic piece of hand off to the deterministic piece of code that will with very simple rules as code that will with very simple rules as code that will with very simple rules as you were saying Rick kill no kill well you were saying Rick kill no kill well you were saying Rick kill no kill well it's no kill 100% of the time it's going it's no kill 100% of the time it's going it's no kill 100% of the time it's going to be a no kill there's no conditions to be a no kill there's no conditions to be a no kill there's no conditions it's not the three laws you know uh of it's not the three laws you know uh of it's not the three laws you know uh of asimov where the robot will ask should I asimov where the robot will ask should I asimov where the robot will ask should I preserve myself and then kill that human preserve myself and then kill that human preserve myself and then kill that human because it contradicts that no it's because it contradicts that no it's because it contradicts that no it's going to be deterministic don't do that going to be deterministic don't do that going to be deterministic don't do that don't and the rules will have to be don't and the rules will have to be don't and the rules will have to be clear and you will have to have this clear and you will have to have this clear and you will have to have this piece of code that is deterministic at piece of code that is deterministic at piece of code that is deterministic at the at at the far And it doesn't need to the at at the far And it doesn't need to the at at the far And it doesn't need to be human. It's it needs to be to be, you be human. It's it needs to be to be, you be human. It's it needs to be to be, you know, deterministic. That's the thing know, deterministic. That's the thing know, deterministic. That's the thing though.

though. though. >> Well, that was the classic. I think MIT >> Well, that was the classic. I think MIT >> Well, that was the classic. I think MIT actually did a study on that like uh actually did a study on that like uh actually did a study on that like uh polling people if you were the polling people if you were the polling people if you were the algorithm. And unfortunately, no kill is algorithm. And unfortunately, no kill is algorithm. And unfortunately, no kill is not an option in some cases, right? not an option in some cases, right? not an option in some cases, right? You're going to encounter a situation You're going to encounter a situation You're going to encounter a situation where it's do you kill the school kids, where it's do you kill the school kids, where it's do you kill the school kids, they're standing next to the bus or do they're standing next to the bus or do they're standing next to the bus or do you kill the driver? And we all know you kill the driver? And we all know you kill the driver? And we all know what the real answer is going to be, what the real answer is going to be, what the real answer is going to be, which is they're going to switch to which is they're going to switch to which is they're going to switch to manual control and push, you know, push manual control and push, you know, push manual control and push, you know, push liability back to the to the person liability back to the to the person liability back to the to the person operating. But what if there's no one in operating. But what if there's no one in operating. But what if there's no one in the vehicle? What if it's a operator um the vehicle? What if it's a operator um the vehicle? What if it's a operator um 6,000 mi away and there's latency to act 6,000 mi away and there's latency to act 6,000 mi away and there's latency to act and all that? Ultimately, a lot of this and all that? Ultimately, a lot of this and all that? Ultimately, a lot of this stuff is going to be determined when the stuff is going to be determined when the stuff is going to be determined when the lawyers get involved, when we start lawyers get involved, when we start lawyers get involved, when we start seeing, you know, litigation. seeing, you know, litigation. seeing, you know, litigation. Unfortunately, you know, that's going to Unfortunately, you know, that's going to Unfortunately, you know, that's going to put the bounds on what we're allowed to put the bounds on what we're allowed to put the bounds on what we're allowed to do. do. do. >> Yeah. And I think >> Yeah. And I think >> Yeah. And I think >> and I want to be over there in the DR >> and I want to be over there in the DR >> and I want to be over there in the DR saying, "Hey, we didn't have to deal saying, "Hey, we didn't have to deal saying, "Hey, we didn't have to deal with that. We sold for whatever millions with that. We sold for whatever millions with that. We sold for whatever millions of dollars we did." of dollars we did." of dollars we did." >> Well, I mean, the thing the problem with >> Well, I mean, the thing the problem with >> Well, I mean, the thing the problem with the speed, I mean, speed is speed is a the speed, I mean, speed is speed is a the speed, I mean, speed is speed is a great thing. It's not not always a great thing. It's not not always a great thing. It's not not always a problem. But if you look at what's how problem. But if you look at what's how problem. But if you look at what's how quickly things are moving in AI, I mean, quickly things are moving in AI, I mean, quickly things are moving in AI, I mean, never mind regulation. Regulation so far never mind regulation. Regulation so far never mind regulation. Regulation so far in the rearview mirror, it's not even in the rearview mirror, it's not even in the rearview mirror, it's not even happening. But but the legal framework happening. But but the legal framework happening. But but the legal framework surrounding things, you know, because surrounding things, you know, because surrounding things, you know, because the question, Rick, is what does it take the question, Rick, is what does it take the question, Rick, is what does it take for your general counsel to sign off on for your general counsel to sign off on for your general counsel to sign off on that piece of deterministic code, that piece of deterministic code, that piece of deterministic code, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> Know what what what ch and it's that's a >> Know what what what ch and it's that's a >> Know what what what ch and it's that's a change in in in the the the law. I mean change in in in the the the law. I mean change in in in the the the law. I mean that and and with a with regulators that and and with a with regulators that and and with a with regulators around the world at sea, you know, at around the world at sea, you know, at around the world at sea, you know, at unable to really understand what's unable to really understand what's unable to really understand what's happening, how the hell are they going happening, how the hell are they going happening, how the hell are they going to write laws that are in any way fit to write laws that are in any way fit to write laws that are in any way fit for purpose to allow that general for purpose to allow that general for purpose to allow that general counsel to sign off on the, you know, counsel to sign off on the, you know, counsel to sign off on the, you know, it's so you're right. I think it's the it's so you're right. I think it's the it's so you're right. I think it's the the limitation on what we can do is not the limitation on what we can do is not the limitation on what we can do is not technology. It it's it's it's legal technology. It it's it's it's legal technology. It it's it's it's legal process and it's it's it's humanship. process and it's it's it's humanship. process and it's it's it's humanship. It's not It's not It's not >> an insurer, right? How can insurer, >> an insurer, right? How can insurer, >> an insurer, right? How can insurer, right? an insurance policy in this kind right? an insurance policy in this kind right? an insurance policy in this kind of framework. It's difficult. I mean, of framework. It's difficult. I mean, of framework. It's difficult. I mean, we'll figure it out. It's just it's all we'll figure it out. It's just it's all we'll figure it out. It's just it's all kind of moving parts now. kind of moving parts now. kind of moving parts now. >> Yeah, that's true. Well, hey, Mark, >> Yeah, that's true. Well, hey, Mark, >> Yeah, that's true. Well, hey, Mark, what's going on in Barcelona, dude? what's going on in Barcelona, dude? what's going on in Barcelona, dude? >> Yeah, getting ready for Mobile Congress. >> Yeah, getting ready for Mobile Congress. >> Yeah, getting ready for Mobile Congress. And it's raining a lot here, so And it's raining a lot here, so And it's raining a lot here, so >> Oh, is it warm? >> Oh, is it warm? >> Oh, is it warm? >> No, I think it's good. >> No, I think it's good. >> No, I think it's good. >> It's raining. No. Well, it's okay. Yeah, >> It's raining. No. Well, it's okay. Yeah, >> It's raining. No. Well, it's okay. Yeah, it's better than I guess uh US winter. it's better than I guess uh US winter. it's better than I guess uh US winter. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> but uh no it's uh yeah as well testing a >> but uh no it's uh yeah as well testing a >> but uh no it's uh yeah as well testing a lot of cloud code and all of these these lot of cloud code and all of these these lot of cloud code and all of these these days and it's interesting to see um days and it's interesting to see um days and it's interesting to see um where everything it's going.

where everything it's going. where everything it's going. >> So you're teaching the world you're >> So you're teaching the world you're >> So you're teaching the world you're teaching the world about Arduino and teaching the world about Arduino and teaching the world about Arduino and Qualcomm and all that fun stuff. Qualcomm and all that fun stuff. Qualcomm and all that fun stuff. >> How's how's going how's the Qualcomm >> How's how's going how's the Qualcomm >> How's how's going how's the Qualcomm kind of integration going? kind of integration going? kind of integration going? >> The Qualcomm integration with what with >> The Qualcomm integration with what with >> The Qualcomm integration with what with Edge Impulse? Edge Impulse? Edge Impulse? >> Yeah. Yeah. ed plus Arduino. >> Yeah. Yeah. ed plus Arduino. >> Yeah. Yeah. ed plus Arduino. >> It's going well. Yeah, it's a there is a >> It's going well. Yeah, it's a there is a >> It's going well. Yeah, it's a there is a Arduino as well in the equation and Arduino as well in the equation and Arduino as well in the equation and yeah, it's going well. Um, now Arduino yeah, it's going well. Um, now Arduino yeah, it's going well. Um, now Arduino Applap, it's getting better and better. Applap, it's getting better and better. Applap, it's getting better and better. So, yeah, it's um it's it's going to be So, yeah, it's um it's it's going to be So, yeah, it's um it's it's going to be interesting in some weeks. Yeah. interesting in some weeks. Yeah. interesting in some weeks. Yeah. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> A lot of interesting things are coming. >> A lot of interesting things are coming. >> A lot of interesting things are coming. >> That's good. That's good. >> That's good. That's good. >> That's good. That's good. >> You know, I was saying that it would be >> You know, I was saying that it would be >> You know, I was saying that it would be interesting. I I I kind of think it interesting. I I I kind of think it interesting. I I I kind of think it would have been cool for Particle to be would have been cool for Particle to be would have been cool for Particle to be part of that because of the EI. I think part of that because of the EI. I think part of that because of the EI. I think the EI and Qualcomm integration in that the EI and Qualcomm integration in that the EI and Qualcomm integration in that stack was so tight, but stack was so tight, but stack was so tight, but ancient history. Actually, they were ancient history. Actually, they were ancient history. Actually, they were just too, right? just too, right? just too, right? >> They got acquired by Digi. Um, you know, >> They got acquired by Digi. Um, you know, >> They got acquired by Digi. Um, you know, Zach had been I think out Zach had been I think out Zach had been I think out >> I mean, he's >> I mean, he's >> I mean, he's been out fundraising quite a lot over been out fundraising quite a lot over been out fundraising quite a lot over the last couple of years. And I think the last couple of years. And I think the last couple of years. And I think the it's a pretty sensible tie up, I the it's a pretty sensible tie up, I the it's a pretty sensible tie up, I think, with Digi. certainly helps Digi, think, with Digi. certainly helps Digi, think, with Digi. certainly helps Digi, you know, expand their, you know, expand you know, expand their, you know, expand you know, expand their, you know, expand their their their um portfolio their their their um portfolio their their their um portfolio capabilities quite quickly. Um, but capabilities quite quickly. Um, but capabilities quite quickly. Um, but yeah, they they because obviously I, you yeah, they they because obviously I, you yeah, they they because obviously I, you know, I was at Blues and Blues and know, I was at Blues and Blues and know, I was at Blues and Blues and Particle kind of, you know, um, very Particle kind of, you know, um, very Particle kind of, you know, um, very similar, I would say, though both would similar, I would say, though both would similar, I would say, though both would say they were very different. Um, but say they were very different. Um, but say they were very different. Um, but very similar concept. Um, and it's a very similar concept. Um, and it's a very similar concept. Um, and it's a tricky space to be an independent in.

tricky space to be an independent in. tricky space to be an independent in. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> For sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. Yeah. And and I think it's >> Absolutely. Yeah. And and I think it's >> Absolutely. Yeah. And and I think it's it's a it's a complete different target it's a it's a complete different target it's a it's a complete different target audience. particle and Arduino. So audience. particle and Arduino. So audience. particle and Arduino. So nothing nothing nothing >> yeah it's a so nothing related I guess >> yeah it's a so nothing related I guess >> yeah it's a so nothing related I guess it's uh even the technologies can be it's uh even the technologies can be it's uh even the technologies can be similar um no it's it's a complete similar um no it's it's a complete similar um no it's it's a complete target audience so target audience so target audience so >> I think the acquisition by Qualcomm of >> I think the acquisition by Qualcomm of >> I think the acquisition by Qualcomm of Arduino it's it's because of the target Arduino it's it's because of the target Arduino it's it's because of the target audience of Arduino basically audience of Arduino basically audience of Arduino basically >> do you think that qual I mean Arduino >> do you think that qual I mean Arduino >> do you think that qual I mean Arduino pro has always been a thing very close pro has always been a thing very close pro has always been a thing very close to my heart because I think you know the to my heart because I think you know the to my heart because I think you know the the promise of being able to take you the promise of being able to take you the promise of being able to take you know an Arduino development experience know an Arduino development experience know an Arduino development experience and extend it to an you know enterprise and extend it to an you know enterprise and extend it to an you know enterprise audience was like, well, yeah, that audience was like, well, yeah, that audience was like, well, yeah, that would be great. Um, you know, do you would be great. Um, you know, do you would be great. Um, you know, do you think that that it that with Qualcomm's think that that it that with Qualcomm's think that that it that with Qualcomm's ownership, my hope would be that that's ownership, my hope would be that that's ownership, my hope would be that that's going to get a get a real boost going to get a get a real boost going to get a get a real boost >> the pro line you mean? >> the pro line you mean? >> the pro line you mean? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, that's a double. that's a double. that's a double. >> I don't know to be to be honest with >> I don't know to be to be honest with >> I don't know to be to be honest with you, I don't know, but I am surprised you, I don't know, but I am surprised you, I don't know, but I am surprised how big is the business coming from the how big is the business coming from the how big is the business coming from the Proline. To be honest with you, I didn't Proline. To be honest with you, I didn't Proline. To be honest with you, I didn't expect those figures.

expect those figures. expect those figures. >> Uh, but I don't know. >> Uh, but I don't know. >> Uh, but I don't know. I think Qualcomm was more interested by I think Qualcomm was more interested by I think Qualcomm was more interested by the community than the Proline. the community than the Proline. the community than the Proline. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So I think yeah everyone can agree right >> So I think yeah everyone can agree right >> So I think yeah everyone can agree right if you want to test a Qualcomm chip you if you want to test a Qualcomm chip you if you want to test a Qualcomm chip you need to s multiple NDAs and maybe the need to s multiple NDAs and maybe the need to s multiple NDAs and maybe the minimum amount of chips that you need to minimum amount of chips that you need to minimum amount of chips that you need to purchase is what 2,000 10,000 100,000 purchase is what 2,000 10,000 100,000 purchase is what 2,000 10,000 100,000 >> uh to test it. >> uh to test it. >> uh to test it. >> Uh so I think this is an approach just >> Uh so I think this is an approach just >> Uh so I think this is an approach just to say okay you want to test it sure go to say okay you want to test it sure go to say okay you want to test it sure go to the Arduino store you have it here. to the Arduino store you have it here. to the Arduino store you have it here. If you want then a professional if you If you want then a professional if you If you want then a professional if you want to get out of the depth kit wall want to get out of the depth kit wall want to get out of the depth kit wall then we have these this and that and then we have these this and that and then we have these this and that and then yeah let's sign NDAs and and so on then yeah let's sign NDAs and and so on then yeah let's sign NDAs and and so on and so on. and so on. and so on. >> I think it's a it's a really interesting >> I think it's a it's a really interesting >> I think it's a it's a really interesting sorry go ahead sorry go ahead sorry go ahead >> say Alistair my experience was kind of >> say Alistair my experience was kind of >> say Alistair my experience was kind of um maybe it was maybe it was not enough um maybe it was maybe it was not enough um maybe it was maybe it was not enough data points but I I agree with the data points but I I agree with the data points but I I agree with the opportunity there. I don't I don't know opportunity there. I don't I don't know opportunity there. I don't I don't know that the pro level was brought to the that the pro level was brought to the that the pro level was brought to the software right the development software software right the development software software right the development software and I think that's an opportunity moving and I think that's an opportunity moving and I think that's an opportunity moving forward right more disciplined more forward right more disciplined more forward right more disciplined more vetted more curated um vetted more curated um vetted more curated um >> there was a bunch of issues beh >> there was a bunch of issues beh >> there was a bunch of issues beh but but yeah it was it was um I I I've but but yeah it was it was um I I I've but but yeah it was it was um I I I've had many a conversation with Fabio about had many a conversation with Fabio about had many a conversation with Fabio about and Marella about how how you know it's and Marella about how how you know it's and Marella about how how you know it's it's different DNA and so getting a it's different DNA and so getting a it's different DNA and so getting a development team to build something that development team to build something that development team to build something that that is outside of the bounds of the that is outside of the bounds of the that is outside of the bounds of the very community focused kind of DNA of very community focused kind of DNA of very community focused kind of DNA of Arduino I think was really tough. I Arduino I think was really tough. I Arduino I think was really tough. I mean, I think I I did some work back in

mean, I think I I did some work back in mean, I think I I did some work back in the the days when they raised money from the the days when they raised money from the the days when they raised money from um Anzu and and co to to kind of build um Anzu and and co to to kind of build um Anzu and and co to to kind of build outro and at the time I was like, you outro and at the time I was like, you outro and at the time I was like, you know, well, of course you should invest know, well, of course you should invest know, well, of course you should invest in it's Arduino. Well, why the in it's Arduino. Well, why the in it's Arduino. Well, why the community? I mean, it's Arduino. I mean, community? I mean, it's Arduino. I mean, community? I mean, it's Arduino. I mean, like what there's nothing there's like what there's nothing there's like what there's nothing there's nothing like it. There's nothing like it nothing like it. There's nothing like it nothing like it. There's nothing like it in terms of an ecosystem of developers. in terms of an ecosystem of developers. in terms of an ecosystem of developers. And yes, I I get it, Mark. I mean I that And yes, I I get it, Mark. I mean I that And yes, I I get it, Mark. I mean I that that was obviously the first and most that was obviously the first and most that was obviously the first and most important reason why Qualcomm looked at important reason why Qualcomm looked at important reason why Qualcomm looked at Arduino and went you know that that that Arduino and went you know that that that Arduino and went you know that that that this makes sense for us. this makes sense for us. this makes sense for us. >> But but in the other hand if you see the >> But but in the other hand if you see the >> But but in the other hand if you see the the last Linux uh pro devices I haven't the last Linux uh pro devices I haven't the last Linux uh pro devices I haven't test them but actually what I learned test them but actually what I learned test them but actually what I learned when I was at Balina because they were when I was at Balina because they were when I was at Balina because they were using a Balena competitor they were using a Balena competitor they were using a Balena competitor they were using Foundaries and and you saw that using Foundaries and and you saw that using Foundaries and and you saw that they were doing the the they were doing they were doing the the they were doing they were doing the the they were doing it everything well. So they were doing it everything well. So they were doing it everything well. So they were doing secure boot full disc encryption uh secure boot full disc encryption uh secure boot full disc encryption uh docker containers on Linux. Um so I mean docker containers on Linux. Um so I mean docker containers on Linux. Um so I mean it was not that bad then then maybe the it was not that bad then then maybe the it was not that bad then then maybe the process can be improved etc. But it's process can be improved etc. But it's process can be improved etc. But it's >> the cloud the cloud experience the >> the cloud the cloud experience the >> the cloud the cloud experience the procloud experience wasn't particularly procloud experience wasn't particularly procloud experience wasn't particularly differentiated from the from the core differentiated from the from the core differentiated from the from the core experience. And you know there's experience. And you know there's experience. And you know there's arguments to say that it shouldn't be arguments to say that it shouldn't be arguments to say that it shouldn't be that you should kind of have the same that you should kind of have the same that you should kind of have the same you know you should be able to pick from you know you should be able to pick from you know you should be able to pick from a you know from a library of a you know from a library of a you know from a library of capabilities as a developer and some capabilities as a developer and some capabilities as a developer and some might be more pro and some might be more might be more pro and some might be more might be more pro and some might be more so so I mean I think there was always a so so I mean I think there was always a so so I mean I think there was always a bit of a a contention about is this a bit of a a contention about is this a bit of a a contention about is this a separate thing or is this just is this separate thing or is this just is this separate thing or is this just is this an evolution and an addition or is this an evolution and an addition or is this an evolution and an addition or is this like a separate thing and you know we like a separate thing and you know we like a separate thing and you know we did a lot of work with Arduino around did a lot of work with Arduino around did a lot of work with Arduino around the opta um the opt low price PLC which

the opta um the opt low price PLC which the opta um the opt low price PLC which I thought was a really really innovative I thought was a really really innovative I thought was a really really innovative product I mean to to be able to connect product I mean to to be able to connect product I mean to to be able to connect a device with a PLC C, you know, for a device with a PLC C, you know, for a device with a PLC C, you know, for for, you know, what was it? €250 as for, you know, what was it? €250 as for, you know, what was it? €250 as opposed to 55 €5,000 for an Alan Bradley opposed to 55 €5,000 for an Alan Bradley opposed to 55 €5,000 for an Alan Bradley PLC. Like, genius. Um, PLC. Like, genius. Um, PLC. Like, genius. Um, >> there's one there's one big thing too >> there's one there's one big thing too >> there's one there's one big thing too that people seem to be discarding a bit that people seem to be discarding a bit that people seem to be discarding a bit too much is perception and and um the too much is perception and and um the too much is perception and and um the perception of Arduino being for makers perception of Arduino being for makers perception of Arduino being for makers >> to me is what hurts the Proline. Proline >> to me is what hurts the Proline. Proline >> to me is what hurts the Proline. Proline great hardware, software can be great hardware, software can be great hardware, software can be improved. Anyways, when you do something improved. Anyways, when you do something improved. Anyways, when you do something as a prototype with Arduino, you you as a prototype with Arduino, you you as a prototype with Arduino, you you just throw away the code after to do an just throw away the code after to do an just throw away the code after to do an actual product and rebuild everything actual product and rebuild everything actual product and rebuild everything from scratch cuz you don't want the from scratch cuz you don't want the from scratch cuz you don't want the wiring stack. You don't want all that. wiring stack. You don't want all that. wiring stack. You don't want all that. It's too heavy. But but at the end of It's too heavy. But but at the end of It's too heavy. But but at the end of the day, the perception is something the day, the perception is something the day, the perception is something that, you know, I was talking to Fabio that, you know, I was talking to Fabio that, you know, I was talking to Fabio as well a couple years ago and um and I as well a couple years ago and um and I as well a couple years ago and um and I was telling him, you know, Proline, was telling him, you know, Proline, was telling him, you know, Proline, great, but you called it Arduino Pro great, but you called it Arduino Pro great, but you called it Arduino Pro versus something else. And and so just versus something else. And and so just versus something else. And and so just that from the perception perspective is that from the perception perspective is that from the perception perspective is a problem. Maybe not in the long run a problem. Maybe not in the long run a problem. Maybe not in the long run because in the long run you can do the because in the long run you can do the because in the long run you can do the right acquisitions, mergers or or also right acquisitions, mergers or or also right acquisitions, mergers or or also change the perception you know in time change the perception you know in time change the perception you know in time but it's going to take time and it's not but it's going to take time and it's not but it's going to take time and it's not going to be overnight. the the going to be overnight. the the going to be overnight. the the acquisition by Qualcomm could be what acquisition by Qualcomm could be what acquisition by Qualcomm could be what can trigger that whatever if Qualcomm can trigger that whatever if Qualcomm can trigger that whatever if Qualcomm heavily invests in in in advertising the heavily invests in in in advertising the heavily invests in in in advertising the fact that hey it's production ready type fact that hey it's production ready type fact that hey it's production ready type of that you have in the Arduino Pro of that you have in the Arduino Pro of that you have in the Arduino Pro line coming from a Qualcomm not coming

line coming from a Qualcomm not coming line coming from a Qualcomm not coming from the Arduino community. Arduino from the Arduino community. Arduino from the Arduino community. Arduino community is a community and they might community is a community and they might community is a community and they might be convinced that it's the best on be convinced that it's the best on be convinced that it's the best on earth. Um, but all the makers are taking earth. Um, but all the makers are taking earth. Um, but all the makers are taking shortcuts in their code to make it work shortcuts in their code to make it work shortcuts in their code to make it work and and you don't put that in and and you don't put that in and and you don't put that in production. And so the quality of of the production. And so the quality of of the production. And so the quality of of the hardware and the pro line is in my hardware and the pro line is in my hardware and the pro line is in my opinion um you know affected by the fact opinion um you know affected by the fact opinion um you know affected by the fact that the good enough perspective of that the good enough perspective of that the good enough perspective of Arduino for community and for makers Arduino for community and for makers Arduino for community and for makers projects is not going to cut it in in projects is not going to cut it in in projects is not going to cut it in in production in business and um that's production in business and um that's production in business and um that's going to be a big work to be done going to be a big work to be done going to be a big work to be done between a Qualcomm and Arduino and Edge between a Qualcomm and Arduino and Edge between a Qualcomm and Arduino and Edge Impulse a Foundry all of that together Impulse a Foundry all of that together Impulse a Foundry all of that together to change that perception that Arduino to change that perception that Arduino to change that perception that Arduino is for makers. is for makers. is for makers. >> Well it depends on what you're trying to >> Well it depends on what you're trying to >> Well it depends on what you're trying to do. I mean if you if you view Arduino do. I mean if you if you view Arduino do. I mean if you if you view Arduino like as a this is a tool that teaches like as a this is a tool that teaches like as a this is a tool that teaches people how to work in the embedded space people how to work in the embedded space people how to work in the embedded space and how to build connected devices and how to build connected devices and how to build connected devices that's one thing but if you look at that's one thing but if you look at that's one thing but if you look at Arduino Pro and I would put Blues in Arduino Pro and I would put Blues in Arduino Pro and I would put Blues in this category and particle in this this category and particle in this this category and particle in this category you know this isn't a gentle category you know this isn't a gentle category you know this isn't a gentle on-ramp into a production scale on-ramp into a production scale on-ramp into a production scale deployment you know the the challenge is deployment you know the the challenge is deployment you know the the challenge is always and I've seen this many a time always and I've seen this many a time always and I've seen this many a time you get to you know when you what you you get to you know when you what you you get to you know when you what you get get to x000 units right you get to get get to x000 units right you get to get get to x000 units right you get to 5,000 units and the customer says huh 5,000 units and the customer says huh 5,000 units and the customer says huh Well, I can use this module essentially.

Well, I can use this module essentially. Well, I can use this module essentially. That's what they will. Oh, I can use That's what they will. Oh, I can use That's what they will. Oh, I can use this module or I can go strip 50% out this module or I can go strip 50% out this module or I can go strip 50% out the bomb cost by redesigning it, you the bomb cost by redesigning it, you the bomb cost by redesigning it, you know, designing it from scratch and know, designing it from scratch and know, designing it from scratch and building my own thing. And back to the building my own thing. And back to the building my own thing. And back to the liability question. If I if I built it, liability question. If I if I built it, liability question. If I if I built it, you know, from scratch, then I know what you know, from scratch, then I know what you know, from scratch, then I know what the code I know that there I know what's the code I know that there I know what's the code I know that there I know what's in the boot loader. I know what's in I in the boot loader. I know what's in I in the boot loader. I know what's in I know everything. know everything. know everything. >> That doesn't work anymore. I think >> That doesn't work anymore. I think >> That doesn't work anymore. I think >> and I don't know if you're talking about >> and I don't know if you're talking about >> and I don't know if you're talking about Raspberry Pi or Arduino now. Raspberry Pi or Arduino now. Raspberry Pi or Arduino now. >> Well, it's the same. I mean, but if if >> Well, it's the same. I mean, but if if >> Well, it's the same. I mean, but if if your goal is to teach more people in the your goal is to teach more people in the your goal is to teach more people in the space, that's one thing. If your goal is space, that's one thing. If your goal is space, that's one thing. If your goal is to try and on-ramp people to a to try and on-ramp people to a to try and on-ramp people to a production scale where they use your production scale where they use your production scale where they use your module in, you know, 100 million units module in, you know, 100 million units module in, you know, 100 million units deployed, that's a different thing. And deployed, that's a different thing. And deployed, that's a different thing. And >> at the end of the day though, I mean, >> at the end of the day though, I mean, >> at the end of the day though, I mean, you know, this is anyone who's in you know, this is anyone who's in you know, this is anyone who's in business to make money is in business business to make money is in business business to make money is in business scale. So sending out little kits to scale. So sending out little kits to scale. So sending out little kits to make potato clocks in high schools is make potato clocks in high schools is make potato clocks in high schools is not a scale business. You know, like you not a scale business. You know, like you not a scale business. You know, like you gota gota gota >> go commercial and go big and it has to >> go commercial and go big and it has to >> go commercial and go big and it has to be a platform people can count on. So, be a platform people can count on. So, be a platform people can count on. So, and you're right, once you get to big and you're right, once you get to big and you're right, once you get to big scale, like if you're Chevron and you're scale, like if you're Chevron and you're scale, like if you're Chevron and you're putting out 100,000 of these things at putting out 100,000 of these things at putting out 100,000 of these things at every oil well, you're already every oil well, you're already every oil well, you're already redesigning that to reduce the bomb by redesigning that to reduce the bomb by redesigning that to reduce the bomb by like 50%. So, like 50%. So, like 50%. So, >> it'll be interesting to see how it plays >> it'll be interesting to see how it plays >> it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

out. out. >> I told you, you know, was again, it's >> I told you, you know, was again, it's >> I told you, you know, was again, it's not a lot of data points, but my not a lot of data points, but my not a lot of data points, but my experience, I had the same enthusiasm experience, I had the same enthusiasm experience, I had the same enthusiasm about the opta, for example, about the opta, for example, about the opta, for example, >> and this is maybe emblematic of >> and this is maybe emblematic of >> and this is maybe emblematic of community- based approaches versus community- based approaches versus community- based approaches versus greedy capitalistbased approaches. But greedy capitalistbased approaches. But greedy capitalistbased approaches. But in the community world and I see this in the community world and I see this in the community world and I see this with node node red I see this with uh with node node red I see this with uh with node node red I see this with uh the Arduino community you have so many the Arduino community you have so many the Arduino community you have so many dependencies on critical modules for the dependencies on critical modules for the dependencies on critical modules for the the Wi-Fi the TLS module the that are the Wi-Fi the TLS module the that are the Wi-Fi the TLS module the that are written by who anybody right as opposed written by who anybody right as opposed written by who anybody right as opposed to the vendor of that stack so they're to the vendor of that stack so they're to the vendor of that stack so they're not vetted they're not curated you're not vetted they're not curated you're not vetted they're not curated you're not guaranteed to be secure and my my not guaranteed to be secure and my my not guaranteed to be secure and my my advice to them was take ownership of advice to them was take ownership of advice to them was take ownership of some of that core software right and some of that core software right and some of that core software right and make sure it's fully vetted fully make sure it's fully vetted fully make sure it's fully vetted fully reliable fully bomb proof. Um, that's reliable fully bomb proof. Um, that's reliable fully bomb proof. Um, that's what you're going to need, I think, if what you're going to need, I think, if what you're going to need, I think, if you want to step up into the into the you want to step up into the into the you want to step up into the into the pro ranks. pro ranks. pro ranks. >> Yeah, makes sense. >> Yeah, makes sense. >> Yeah, makes sense. >> Well, and this is related with a CRA, >> Well, and this is related with a CRA, >> Well, and this is related with a CRA, right? That it's uh that's it's going to right? That it's uh that's it's going to right? That it's uh that's it's going to appear in in less than one year here in appear in in less than one year here in appear in in less than one year here in Europe, right? You will need to Europe, right? You will need to Europe, right? You will need to >> to have all the security assessments in >> to have all the security assessments in >> to have all the security assessments in place, get the software bill of place, get the software bill of place, get the software bill of materials public on on somewhere on your materials public on on somewhere on your materials public on on somewhere on your website and explain, yeah, what versions website and explain, yeah, what versions website and explain, yeah, what versions you use, etc. So yeah, you you need to you use, etc. So yeah, you you need to you use, etc. So yeah, you you need to take ownership of your software as well, take ownership of your software as well, take ownership of your software as well, not just the hardware. Where is not just the hardware. Where is not just the hardware. Where is >> That's a good point. I did love that >> That's a good point. I did love that >> That's a good point. I did love that Digi was brought up in this conversation Digi was brought up in this conversation Digi was brought up in this conversation because it takes me back all the way because it takes me back all the way because it takes me back all the way back through the mists of time to the back through the mists of time to the back through the mists of time to the dawn of the internet of things. And so dawn of the internet of things. And so dawn of the internet of things. And so imagine there you are in Belleview,

imagine there you are in Belleview, imagine there you are in Belleview, Washington trying to connect lots of Washington trying to connect lots of Washington trying to connect lots of vending machines and you've got vending machines and you've got vending machines and you've got different teams. You have the embedded different teams. You have the embedded different teams. You have the embedded team, you know, burning EPROMs to put team, you know, burning EPROMs to put team, you know, burning EPROMs to put inside the vending machines with cabling inside the vending machines with cabling inside the vending machines with cabling to know when you got a Snickers or a to know when you got a Snickers or a to know when you got a Snickers or a Coke or put a quarter in. And you got Coke or put a quarter in. And you got Coke or put a quarter in. And you got the PC team, which is substituting for the PC team, which is substituting for the PC team, which is substituting for the cloud team. It's like a Windows PC, the cloud team. It's like a Windows PC, the cloud team. It's like a Windows PC, basically, Windows 3.1 with the basically, Windows 3.1 with the basically, Windows 3.1 with the software. And then you got the wireless software. And then you got the wireless software. And then you got the wireless team. We had, you know, we had RF team. We had, you know, we had RF team. We had, you know, we had RF engineers and we're having to build our engineers and we're having to build our engineers and we're having to build our own wireless modems, right? Uh cuz there own wireless modems, right? Uh cuz there own wireless modems, right? Uh cuz there wasn't a real world yet. Digi boards wasn't a real world yet. Digi boards wasn't a real world yet. Digi boards came into play and they were important came into play and they were important came into play and they were important part of the beginnings of IoT. And why part of the beginnings of IoT. And why part of the beginnings of IoT. And why is that? Because back in the day, does is that? Because back in the day, does is that? Because back in the day, does anybody remember things like interrupts anybody remember things like interrupts anybody remember things like interrupts or IRQs, DMA, all that stuff? Remember or IRQs, DMA, all that stuff? Remember or IRQs, DMA, all that stuff? Remember auto exec BAT and all that crap you had auto exec BAT and all that crap you had auto exec BAT and all that crap you had to do? All right. So, before the magic to do? All right. So, before the magic to do? All right. So, before the magic of of of Windows 95 Windows 95 Windows 95 >> um, we we had to we had to do a lot of >> um, we we had to we had to do a lot of >> um, we we had to we had to do a lot of hard stuff. And so a Windows 3.1 running hard stuff. And so a Windows 3.1 running hard stuff. And so a Windows 3.1 running on DOS PC could not have lots of on DOS PC could not have lots of on DOS PC could not have lots of compports because that's how we compports because that's how we compports because that's how we communicated back then was with the communicated back then was with the communicated back then was with the little RS232 compports. So Digi Board little RS232 compports. So Digi Board little RS232 compports. So Digi Board came to the rescue because we would go came to the rescue because we would go came to the rescue because we would go into a city. I remember going into into a city. I remember going into into a city. I remember going into Baltimore and so this notion of Baltimore and so this notion of Baltimore and so this notion of coverage, whatever that means with coverage, whatever that means with coverage, whatever that means with cellular didn't exist yet. So imagine cellular didn't exist yet. So imagine cellular didn't exist yet. So imagine Baltimore and it's like a pie and we Baltimore and it's like a pie and we Baltimore and it's like a pie and we wrote different wireless modems to cover wrote different wireless modems to cover wrote different wireless modems to cover different pieces of the pie to create

different pieces of the pie to create different pieces of the pie to create coverage around the city and we needed coverage around the city and we needed coverage around the city and we needed more compports to do that cuz they were more compports to do that cuz they were more compports to do that cuz they were hanging off this Windows 3.1 PC. Our hanging off this Windows 3.1 PC. Our hanging off this Windows 3.1 PC. Our application was buil written in Visual application was buil written in Visual application was buil written in Visual Basic 3 and it looked like a vending Basic 3 and it looked like a vending Basic 3 and it looked like a vending machine and all that. machine and all that. machine and all that. >> And so Digi was critical to us >> And so Digi was critical to us >> And so Digi was critical to us overcoming a lot of challenges to create overcoming a lot of challenges to create overcoming a lot of challenges to create that coverage all over the place. And so that coverage all over the place. And so that coverage all over the place. And so we had all these modems hanging off of we had all these modems hanging off of we had all these modems hanging off of these comp ports. And so much love to these comp ports. And so much love to these comp ports. And so much love to Digi. There you go. There's your history Digi. There you go. There's your history Digi. There you go. There's your history lesson from your uncle Billy Mac. lesson from your uncle Billy Mac. lesson from your uncle Billy Mac. >> We used in factories it was the other >> We used in factories it was the other >> We used in factories it was the other way around. those eight ports to talk to way around. those eight ports to talk to way around. those eight ports to talk to all your PLC's and all the all your PLC's and all the all your PLC's and all the >> Couldn't have done it otherwise. >> Couldn't have done it otherwise. >> Couldn't have done it otherwise. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. That was good >> Absolutely. Absolutely. That was good >> Absolutely. Absolutely. That was good stuff. Oh my gosh. Wow. All right. Well, stuff. Oh my gosh. Wow. All right. Well, stuff. Oh my gosh. Wow. All right. Well, Bill's got to leave. I think Bill's got to leave. I think Bill's got to leave. I think >> he has to leave as well, guys. >> he has to leave as well, guys. >> he has to leave as well, guys. >> I think we're at closing time. It's that >> I think we're at closing time. It's that >> I think we're at closing time. It's that time. So, thanks everybody for joining time. So, thanks everybody for joining time. So, thanks everybody for joining on this celebratory 300th episode of IoT on this celebratory 300th episode of IoT on this celebratory 300th episode of IoT Coffee Talk. Um, great to see Rick back. Coffee Talk. Um, great to see Rick back. Coffee Talk. Um, great to see Rick back. It's been a while. Good to see you, It's been a while. Good to see you, It's been a while. Good to see you, buddy. Um, great conversation as always buddy. Um, great conversation as always buddy. Um, great conversation as always and remember this whole thing supports and remember this whole thing supports and remember this whole thing supports elevate communities. Uh, and so send elevate communities. Uh, and so send elevate communities. Uh, and so send your love to that and we will see you your love to that and we will see you your love to that and we will see you next week when we're going to talk about next week when we're going to talk about next week when we're going to talk about all the most important things in tech all the most important things in tech all the most important things in tech and sending all that money to all our and sending all that money to all our and sending all that money to all our LPs because this is where the real VC LPs because this is where the real VC LPs because this is where the real VC action happens right here on IoT Coffee action happens right here on IoT Coffee action happens right here on IoT Coffee Talk. Adios.

Talk. Adios. Talk. Adios. Bye. Bye. Bye. >> Bye-bye.