IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 232 - Consumer IoT Privacy

[Music] [Music] he there you there you go I was just looking at that song I classic yeah I couldn't figure out classic yeah I couldn't figure out anything else to play you know you anything else to play you know you anything else to play you know you know know know almost I never heard Leonard play guitar almost I never heard Leonard play guitar almost I never heard Leonard play guitar so that was so that was so that was cool it I'm a man of many talents I see cool it I'm a man of many talents I see cool it I'm a man of many talents I see you got the keyboard back there a you got the keyboard back there a you got the keyboard back there a renaissance renaissance renaissance man man man ridiculous Oh no you're ridiculous ridiculous Oh no you're ridiculous ridiculous Oh no you're ridiculous you're you're you and uh bill you guys you're you're you and uh bill you guys you're you're you and uh bill you guys are like i e freaking all over the place are like i e freaking all over the place are like i e freaking all over the place you guys are amazing but hey everyone you guys are amazing but hey everyone you guys are amazing but hey everyone iot Coffee Talk listeners welcome iot Coffee Talk listeners welcome iot Coffee Talk listeners welcome welcome and viewers and welcome and viewers and welcome and viewers and remember to take us remember to take us remember to take us seriously at your own risk we're just seriously at your own risk we're just seriously at your own risk we're just here to have fun share knowledge have here to have fun share knowledge have here to have fun share knowledge have honest Frank conversations about honest Frank conversations about honest Frank conversations about tech and everything that surrounds Tech tech and everything that surrounds Tech tech and everything that surrounds Tech and then occasionally we try to do this

and then occasionally we try to do this and then occasionally we try to do this iot stuff that no one seems to care iot stuff that no one seems to care iot stuff that no one seems to care about anymore but you know what I think about anymore but you know what I think about anymore but you know what I think there's some growing interest right uh there's some growing interest right uh there's some growing interest right uh yeah I like I like that yeah that that yeah I like I like that yeah that that yeah I like I like that yeah that that look thanks Pete yeah well you know you're making it Pete yeah well you know you're making it happen again with all the tiny ml stuff happen again with all the tiny ml stuff happen again with all the tiny ml stuff and then you know um you know yeah yeah and then you know um you know yeah yeah and then you know um you know yeah yeah all the edge stuff it's it's making all the edge stuff it's it's making all the edge stuff it's it's making hopefully it'll make iot sexy again but hopefully it'll make iot sexy again but hopefully it'll make iot sexy again but hey and we have the data diva hey and we have the data diva hey and we have the data diva Debbie Reynolds in the house be here oh Debbie Reynolds in the house be here oh Debbie Reynolds in the house be here oh my go you know what you're a rock star my go you know what you're a rock star my go you know what you're a rock star you're the rock a thank you thank you oh you're the rock a thank you thank you oh you're the rock a thank you thank you oh my gosh mightest touch good my gosh mightest touch good my gosh mightest touch good morning oh my go we have representation morning oh my go we have representation morning oh my go we have representation we have we have we have diversity yes awesome that every day diversity yes awesome that every day diversity yes awesome that every day yeah no this is great we have our ladies yeah no this is great we have our ladies yeah no this is great we have our ladies representing this is just freaking representing this is just freaking representing this is just freaking fantabulous love it fantabulous love it fantabulous love it so um what's going on so um what's going on so um what's going on everyone everyone everyone Fray what's happening I was at the risk Fray what's happening I was at the risk Fray what's happening I was at the risk five uh risk five Summit this week uh five uh risk five Summit this week uh five uh risk five Summit this week uh that was interesting especially in the that was interesting especially in the that was interesting especially in the context of the arm Qualcomm little spat context of the arm Qualcomm little spat context of the arm Qualcomm little spat that they're having yeah around that they're having yeah around that they're having yeah around architecture so everyone at the risk 5 architecture so everyone at the risk 5 architecture so everyone at the risk 5 Summit was kind of had a little bit of a Summit was kind of had a little bit of a Summit was kind of had a little bit of a spring in their step uh about oh really spring in their step uh about oh really spring in their step uh about oh really the future of risk 5 and servers and the future of risk 5 and servers and the future of risk 5 and servers and mpus and MCU and all that good stuff so

mpus and MCU and all that good stuff so mpus and MCU and all that good stuff so it was It was kind of fun to be there I it was It was kind of fun to be there I it was It was kind of fun to be there I was on a panel with Nvidia actually and was on a panel with Nvidia actually and was on a panel with Nvidia actually and Qualcomm and um oh Pete Warden uh from Qualcomm and um oh Pete Warden uh from Qualcomm and um oh Pete Warden uh from useful sensors and we uh we talked about useful sensors and we uh we talked about useful sensors and we uh we talked about Ai and security and stuff it was cool Ai and security and stuff it was cool Ai and security and stuff it was cool was fun oh yeah risk five you know was fun oh yeah risk five you know was fun oh yeah risk five you know pretty cool pretty yeah I missed out pretty cool pretty yeah I missed out pretty cool pretty yeah I missed out this this this year it's insane it's this whole quarter year it's insane it's this whole quarter year it's insane it's this whole quarter is just Madness oh yeah the events are is just Madness oh yeah the events are is just Madness oh yeah the events are like totally piled on top of each other like totally piled on top of each other like totally piled on top of each other I was actually presenting at Spectra I was actually presenting at Spectra I was actually presenting at Spectra particles conference at the same time I particles conference at the same time I particles conference at the same time I was on stage at the panel um recorded so was on stage at the panel um recorded so was on stage at the panel um recorded so it's like yeah you kind of you have to it's like yeah you kind of you have to it's like yeah you kind of you have to sort of multi- multitask yourself but uh sort of multi- multitask yourself but uh sort of multi- multitask yourself but uh but no I thought the risk five stuff but no I thought the risk five stuff but no I thought the risk five stuff just architectur we have a bunch of just architectur we have a bunch of just architectur we have a bunch of Partners in our in the tiny Mel Partners in our in the tiny Mel Partners in our in the tiny Mel Foundation using risk five for like Foundation using risk five for like Foundation using risk five for like ultra low power yeah audio Ai and stuff ultra low power yeah audio Ai and stuff ultra low power yeah audio Ai and stuff is really amazing what you can do there is really amazing what you can do there is really amazing what you can do there and so I'm really um optimistic about and so I'm really um optimistic about and so I'm really um optimistic about that becoming a big part of people's that becoming a big part of people's that becoming a big part of people's portfolio so it could um you know um I I portfolio so it could um you know um I I portfolio so it could um you know um I I I think that the whole Qualcomm arm I think that the whole Qualcomm arm I think that the whole Qualcomm arm thing is going to just either settle or thing is going to just either settle or thing is going to just either settle or yeah they'll settle it's just a little yeah they'll settle it's just a little yeah they'll settle it's just a little drama you know little wait till the snap drama you know little wait till the snap drama you know little wait till the snap dragon Summit and then throw down some dragon Summit and then throw down some dragon Summit and then throw down some shade and stuff yeah yeah they're just shade and stuff yeah yeah they're just shade and stuff yeah yeah they're just negotiating for price it's all it's that negotiating for price it's all it's that negotiating for price it's all it's that the whole new via acquisition so for the whole new via acquisition so for the whole new via acquisition so for folks don't know they they Qualcomm folks don't know they they Qualcomm folks don't know they they Qualcomm acquired newva new was an arm LIC e they acquired newva new was an arm LIC e they acquired newva new was an arm LIC e they had a certain price up here Qualcomm has

had a certain price up here Qualcomm has had a certain price up here Qualcomm has here and then they basically welcom said here and then they basically welcom said here and then they basically welcom said well now that we've acquired nuvia we well now that we've acquired nuvia we well now that we've acquired nuvia we want to pay down here our existing price want to pay down here our existing price want to pay down here our existing price and arm's like no you need to pay up and arm's like no you need to pay up and arm's like no you need to pay up here and then so gonna happen we'll meet here and then so gonna happen we'll meet here and then so gonna happen we'll meet somewhere around here yeah I mean the somewhere around here yeah I mean the somewhere around here yeah I mean the real challenge was nuo was originally real challenge was nuo was originally real challenge was nuo was originally geared toward making arm cores for geared toward making arm cores for geared toward making arm cores for Server market and then you know of Server market and then you know of Server market and then you know of course much lower volume higher price course much lower volume higher price course much lower volume higher price you know uh and and so ideally a higher you know uh and and so ideally a higher you know uh and and so ideally a higher negotiated uh royalty right but um negotiated uh royalty right but um negotiated uh royalty right but um because licensing is not the thing it's because licensing is not the thing it's because licensing is not the thing it's really about the royalty right and you really about the royalty right and you really about the royalty right and you know it's weird people still don't know it's weird people still don't know it's weird people still don't really understand arm and arm's business really understand arm and arm's business really understand arm and arm's business and when they hear risk five they're and when they hear risk five they're and when they hear risk five they're even more confused because they think even more confused because they think even more confused because they think these These are chip companies you know these These are chip companies you know these These are chip companies you know uh and they're not uh and they're not uh and they're not um and so specs specs and software um and so specs specs and software um and so specs specs and software basically yeah well it's like IP right basically yeah well it's like IP right basically yeah well it's like IP right basically um you know I mean more the basically um you know I mean more the basically um you know I mean more the way that I kind of looked at it is that way that I kind of looked at it is that way that I kind of looked at it is that it's it's more business model right um it's it's more business model right um it's it's more business model right um and and the business model broke down by and and the business model broke down by and and the business model broke down by way of way of way of acquisition so which acquisition so which acquisition so which one bought one bought one bought nuvia it it gave them it gave them the nuvia it it gave them it gave them the nuvia it it gave them it gave them the ability to actually circumvent the ability to actually circumvent the ability to actually circumvent the business process or the business model business process or the business model business process or the business model that arm that arm that arm had royalty licensing royalty model is

had royalty licensing royalty model is had royalty licensing royalty model is just a different tier different category just a different tier different category just a different tier different category of of Chip you know it wasn't just the of of Chip you know it wasn't just the of of Chip you know it wasn't just the architecture no no it wasn't because architecture no no it wasn't because architecture no no it wasn't because what um what nuvia had was was called what um what nuvia had was was called what um what nuvia had was was called the architecture license right which is the architecture license right which is the architecture license right which is different from a technology license different from a technology license different from a technology license which is you're actually licensing which is you're actually licensing which is you're actually licensing arms uh core IP and what you're doing arms uh core IP and what you're doing arms uh core IP and what you're doing with um the architectural license is you with um the architectural license is you with um the architectural license is you have licens to use the uh the Baseline have licens to use the uh the Baseline have licens to use the uh the Baseline Issa and extend it and customize it and Issa and extend it and customize it and Issa and extend it and customize it and just use bits and pieces whichever you just use bits and pieces whichever you just use bits and pieces whichever you want so you know the chip design is want so you know the chip design is want so you know the chip design is going to look entirely different so like going to look entirely different so like going to look entirely different so like the new Orion okay speaking of the new Orion okay speaking of the new Orion okay speaking of Snapdragon Summit they announced Orion Snapdragon Summit they announced Orion Snapdragon Summit they announced Orion you know Gen 2 Orion um CPU core that you know Gen 2 Orion um CPU core that you know Gen 2 Orion um CPU core that thing looks way you know way different thing looks way you know way different thing looks way you know way different than what arm is designing so it it it's than what arm is designing so it it it's than what arm is designing so it it it's foundationally arm IP based but it it's foundationally arm IP based but it it's foundationally arm IP based but it it's been modified significantly the market been modified significantly the market been modified significantly the market microarchitecture is very different and microarchitecture is very different and microarchitecture is very different and so um that's why you're seeing that kind so um that's why you're seeing that kind so um that's why you're seeing that kind of of of performance uh with the Orion chips performance uh with the Orion chips performance uh with the Orion chips versus like everything else I mean it's versus like everything else I mean it's versus like everything else I mean it's coming up to par with coming up to par with coming up to par with Apple's architectural Apple's architectural Apple's architectural designed You Know M Series right and a designed You Know M Series right and a designed You Know M Series right and a series and everything else and series and everything else and series and everything else and so um yeah it's a little it's different

so um yeah it's a little it's different so um yeah it's a little it's different it's not necessarily a business model it's not necessarily a business model it's not necessarily a business model thing um it's definitely a a has a lot thing um it's definitely a a has a lot thing um it's definitely a a has a lot to do with um the uh Ren the the the to do with um the uh Ren the the the to do with um the uh Ren the the the question of license question of license question of license transferability right post acquisition transferability right post acquisition transferability right post acquisition acquisition yeah yeah when you acquire a acquisition yeah yeah when you acquire a acquisition yeah yeah when you acquire a company you know and there's also a company you know and there's also a company you know and there's also a little bit of like I still kind of feel little bit of like I still kind of feel little bit of like I still kind of feel like there's something in the business like there's something in the business like there's something in the business model part of it because that's the that model part of it because that's the that model part of it because that's the that business model is I mean Qualcomm does a business model is I mean Qualcomm does a business model is I mean Qualcomm does a very similar type thing right I mean very similar type thing right I mean very similar type thing right I mean quick tail quick tail quick tail licenses uh that and then they make licenses uh that and then they make licenses uh that and then they make modifications I mean I have seen this modifications I mean I have seen this modifications I mean I have seen this firsthand where gaps that that Qualcomm firsthand where gaps that that Qualcomm firsthand where gaps that that Qualcomm had quick tail fixes and then as the had quick tail fixes and then as the had quick tail fixes and then as the gaps are filled by Qualcomm quick tail gaps are filled by Qualcomm quick tail gaps are filled by Qualcomm quick tail removes the so there's something in removes the so there's something in removes the so there's something in there and maybe it's in the language there and maybe it's in the language there and maybe it's in the language change of control oh yeah yeah no but change of control oh yeah yeah no but change of control oh yeah yeah no but you're right afterwards there's there you're right afterwards there's there you're right afterwards there's there were a lot of murmurings about how arms were a lot of murmurings about how arms were a lot of murmurings about how arms going to change its licensing and going to change its licensing and going to change its licensing and Licensing model right so yeah um and Licensing model right so yeah um and Licensing model right so yeah um and that's what you might might have might that's what you might might have might that's what you might might have might be reacting to because there's a lot of be reacting to because there's a lot of be reacting to because there's a lot of history in this stuff um when you read history in this stuff um when you read history in this stuff um when you read some of the the current media coverage some of the the current media coverage some of the the current media coverage of it there's huge gaps and just of it there's huge gaps and just of it there's huge gaps and just misrepresentations it's it's it's misrepresentations it's it's it's misrepresentations it's it's it's laughable um you know and people forget laughable um you know and people forget laughable um you know and people forget right and this thing has been dragging right and this thing has been dragging right and this thing has been dragging on for a really long time and and on for a really long time and and on for a really long time and and people's memories are short especially

people's memories are short especially people's memories are short especially um um um journalists and and a lot of analysts journalists and and a lot of analysts journalists and and a lot of analysts but before we move on dude Steve welcome but before we move on dude Steve welcome but before we move on dude Steve welcome back man you're alive how are back man you're alive how are back man you're alive how are you um just yeah hanging in there I mean you um just yeah hanging in there I mean you um just yeah hanging in there I mean it's it was it's been a long couple it's it was it's been a long couple it's it was it's been a long couple weeks that's for sure oh man it's good weeks that's for sure oh man it's good weeks that's for sure oh man it's good to to to see I've never experienced tornado or see I've never experienced tornado or see I've never experienced tornado or tornado damage like this but I mean I tornado damage like this but I mean I tornado damage like this but I mean I just this is a whole new thing for a guy just this is a whole new thing for a guy just this is a whole new thing for a guy from Jersey right so we don't get those from Jersey right so we don't get those from Jersey right so we don't get those kind of things so the damage is just uh kind of things so the damage is just uh kind of things so the damage is just uh overwhelming the tree lost of the house overwhelming the tree lost of the house overwhelming the tree lost of the house lost we got a final tally we have 451 lost we got a final tally we have 451 lost we got a final tally we have 451 homes that are destroyed in Bureau Beach homes that are destroyed in Bureau Beach homes that are destroyed in Bureau Beach just in our Beach Community oh no way just in our Beach Community oh no way just in our Beach Community oh no way yeah so it's it's I mean I'm surprised yeah so it's it's I mean I'm surprised yeah so it's it's I mean I'm surprised my internet's up how's that it's like a my internet's up how's that it's like a my internet's up how's that it's like a day-to-day thing it's just um it's just day-to-day thing it's just um it's just day-to-day thing it's just um it's just been overwhelming so the Steve are they been overwhelming so the Steve are they been overwhelming so the Steve are they re rebuilding or you know what I don't I re rebuilding or you know what I don't I re rebuilding or you know what I don't I don't think the funding and stuff has don't think the funding and stuff has don't think the funding and stuff has been put together yet to figure out how been put together yet to figure out how been put together yet to figure out how that's going to happen I mean FEMA's that's going to happen I mean FEMA's that's going to happen I mean FEMA's been here the whole time but it's been been here the whole time but it's been been here the whole time but it's been like now we got to go to the money phase like now we got to go to the money phase like now we got to go to the money phase right first phase was giving people right first phase was giving people right first phase was giving people places to shower and eat and live and places to shower and eat and live and places to shower and eat and live and Tents and blue tarps and then and now we Tents and blue tarps and then and now we Tents and blue tarps and then and now we got to go figure out okay who's paying got to go figure out okay who's paying got to go figure out okay who's paying for all this stuff because we have for all this stuff because we have for all this stuff because we have enough problems with hurricane insurance enough problems with hurricane insurance enough problems with hurricane insurance and everything else and that was that and everything else and that was that and everything else and that was that was a bad day I mean tornadoes came in was a bad day I mean tornadoes came in was a bad day I mean tornadoes came in from 3: to 5:30 in the afternoon 10

from 3: to 5:30 in the afternoon 10 from 3: to 5:30 in the afternoon 10 inches of rain in two hours and then at inches of rain in two hours and then at inches of rain in two hours and then at 11 o'clock that night the hurricane came 11 o'clock that night the hurricane came 11 o'clock that night the hurricane came through at 80 M hour winds so between through at 80 M hour winds so between through at 80 M hour winds so between then and 5 o'clock six o'clock in the then and 5 o'clock six o'clock in the then and 5 o'clock six o'clock in the morning we got that so it was you don't morning we got that so it was you don't morning we got that so it was you don't know who's paying for what right is it know who's paying for what right is it know who's paying for what right is it weather wind hurricane damage water you weather wind hurricane damage water you weather wind hurricane damage water you know blah blah blah so it was it's been know blah blah blah so it was it's been know blah blah blah so it was it's been uh it's been interesting to live here on uh it's been interesting to live here on uh it's been interesting to live here on the beach it's never going to be the the beach it's never going to be the the beach it's never going to be the same it will never look the same so oh same it will never look the same so oh same it will never look the same so oh man czy but you know then I leave and I man czy but you know then I leave and I man czy but you know then I leave and I go to Utah and win the world senior go to Utah and win the world senior go to Utah and win the world senior championships championships championships last congratulations culations last congratulations culations last congratulations culations wow you go from the low to a high to the wow you go from the low to a high to the wow you go from the low to a high to the low to a high it's like well welcome to low to a high it's like well welcome to low to a high it's like well welcome to life so yeah something about October life so yeah something about October life so yeah something about October this year has been a bit chaotic for a this year has been a bit chaotic for a this year has been a bit chaotic for a lot of people a lot of families a lot of lot of people a lot of families a lot of lot of people a lot of families a lot of business people yeah yeah I'm hoping to business people yeah yeah I'm hoping to business people yeah yeah I'm hoping to put it behind me yeah well hey we're put it behind me yeah well hey we're put it behind me yeah well hey we're glad you're safe um looks like your glad you're safe um looks like your glad you're safe um looks like your living your your office is intact and living your your office is intact and living your your office is intact and yeah everything's intact I mean outside yeah everything's intact I mean outside yeah everything's intact I mean outside looks yeah last time I I talked to looks yeah last time I I talked to looks yeah last time I I talked to you you were talk talking about how you you were talk talking about how you you were talk talking about how you're waiting for um people to board up you're waiting for um people to board up you're waiting for um people to board up your windows and stuff like that so and your windows and stuff like that so and your windows and stuff like that so and we did we had that that was done for we did we had that that was done for we did we had that that was done for several days until I couldn't stand several days until I couldn't stand several days until I couldn't stand living inside a cocoon living inside a cocoon living inside a cocoon oh well hey it's good good to have you oh well hey it's good good to have you oh well hey it's good good to have you back and so hey um you know what de back and so hey um you know what de back and so hey um you know what de Debbie has some news to share all right

Debbie has some news to share all right Debbie has some news to share all right on a very very important topic related on a very very important topic related on a very very important topic related to something she holds very dear to her to something she holds very dear to her to something she holds very dear to her heart right so hey you want you want to heart right so hey you want you want to heart right so hey you want you want to you want to break the news that's an you want to break the news that's an you want to break the news that's an interesting setup wow interesting setup wow interesting setup wow sure sure so um I was one of 16 sure sure so um I was one of 16 sure sure so um I was one of 16 Americans chosen to be on a Advisory Americans chosen to be on a Advisory Americans chosen to be on a Advisory Board uh commenced by the US Department Board uh commenced by the US Department Board uh commenced by the US Department of Commerce and it was called The of Commerce and it was called The of Commerce and it was called The Internet of Things Advisory Board uh we Internet of Things Advisory Board uh we Internet of Things Advisory Board uh we conven for two years we meet two days a conven for two years we meet two days a conven for two years we meet two days a month for two month for two month for two years uh everything that we did had to years uh everything that we did had to years uh everything that we did had to be on the record we had a Federal be on the record we had a Federal be on the record we had a Federal Officer you know that uh there's a law a Officer you know that uh there's a law a Officer you know that uh there's a law a fa of law around advisory boards and the fa of law around advisory boards and the fa of law around advisory boards and the things you have to do to do this process things you have to do to do this process things you have to do to do this process and so there were 16 people from all and so there were 16 people from all and so there were 16 people from all different um you know sectors and different um you know sectors and different um you know sectors and different interests you know from people different interests you know from people different interests you know from people doing uh iot and doing uh iot and doing uh iot and agriculture uh supply chain uh consumer agriculture uh supply chain uh consumer agriculture uh supply chain uh consumer electronics actually one of the people electronics actually one of the people electronics actually one of the people on the board was is one of the big guys on the board was is one of the big guys on the board was is one of the big guys at the C CES uh show uh he was very at the C CES uh show uh he was very at the C CES uh show uh he was very interesting character interesting character interesting character uh and uh uh and uh uh and uh Shapiro no Shapiro no Shapiro no no Shapiro come on he to that level I'm no Shapiro come on he to that level I'm no Shapiro come on he to that level I'm like thank you what are you talking like thank you what are you talking like thank you what are you talking about Debbie no no no oh god I've known about Debbie no no no oh god I've known about Debbie no no no oh god I've known him for two years I forget his name

him for two years I forget his name him for two years I forget his name always Mike Mike Bergman always Mike Mike Bergman always Mike Mike Bergman he's this all on the this all public he's this all on the this all public he's this all on the this all public information I'm not there no inside information I'm not there no inside information I'm not there no inside baseball thing but um our our final baseball thing but um our our final baseball thing but um our our final report went out um uh last this week um report went out um uh last this week um report went out um uh last this week um October 22nd and so the report was October 22nd and so the report was October 22nd and so the report was released to the federal working group so released to the federal working group so released to the federal working group so we were outside you know outside working we were outside you know outside working we were outside you know outside working group giving a report to the federal group giving a report to the federal group giving a report to the federal government and then our report also government and then our report also government and then our report also would go to Congress and so there were a would go to Congress and so there were a would go to Congress and so there were a hundred over a 100 recommendations in hundred over a 100 recommendations in hundred over a 100 recommendations in the report um I had I was uh because the the report um I had I was uh because the the report um I had I was uh because the work was so large we had subgroups that work was so large we had subgroups that work was so large we had subgroups that working on certain things so I was the working on certain things so I was the working on certain things so I was the head of the privacy subgroup and as we head of the privacy subgroup and as we head of the privacy subgroup and as we were working we realized wow privacy were working we realized wow privacy were working we realized wow privacy touches like touches like touches like everything so so a lot of our everything so so a lot of our everything so so a lot of our recommendations that we made were pretty recommendations that we made were pretty recommendations that we made were pretty Broad and sweeping uh but we did kind of Broad and sweeping uh but we did kind of Broad and sweeping uh but we did kind of get in the Weeds on some things get in the Weeds on some things get in the Weeds on some things especially cars so uh so yeah report especially cars so uh so yeah report especially cars so uh so yeah report came out um some of the the big issues came out um some of the the big issues came out um some of the the big issues or the items that we were able to get or the items that we were able to get or the items that we were able to get into report and some of this involves into report and some of this involves into report and some of this involves Leonard as well um we advocated for a Leonard as well um we advocated for a Leonard as well um we advocated for a universal opt out uh with iot universal opt out uh with iot universal opt out uh with iot devices um we want want there to be devices um we want want there to be devices um we want want there to be plain language uh in privacy notices and plain language uh in privacy notices and plain language uh in privacy notices and privacy policies um we recommended that

privacy policies um we recommended that privacy policies um we recommended that Privacy Information be added to the Privacy Information be added to the Privacy Information be added to the vehicle stickers for new and used cars vehicle stickers for new and used cars vehicle stickers for new and used cars uh and that's actually the the slugfest uh and that's actually the the slugfest uh and that's actually the the slugfest one I'll tell you about that there's one I'll tell you about that there's one I'll tell you about that there's like a backstory to that oh yeah uh like a backstory to that oh yeah uh like a backstory to that oh yeah uh right right so of all the right right so of all the right right so of all the recommendations that were made that was recommendations that were made that was recommendations that were made that was the one that the lobbyist really came in the one that the lobbyist really came in the one that the lobbyist really came in hard to try to oppose but that's you hard to try to oppose but that's you hard to try to oppose but that's you know that was pretty interesting um so know that was pretty interesting um so know that was pretty interesting um so oh and D like data sanitization oh and D like data sanitization oh and D like data sanitization standards when cars are resold making standards when cars are resold making standards when cars are resold making sure that cars the data sanitized so sure that cars the data sanitized so sure that cars the data sanitized so because that's like a huge area of because that's like a huge area of because that's like a huge area of identity um especially someone's car if identity um especially someone's car if identity um especially someone's car if sold or is repossessed um so this it so sold or is repossessed um so this it so sold or is repossessed um so this it so all this is about it's about apps it's all this is about it's about apps it's all this is about it's about apps it's about devices it's about you know who's about devices it's about you know who's about devices it's about you know who's using what um and so yeah so I'm really using what um and so yeah so I'm really using what um and so yeah so I'm really proud of the report uh you know it's proud of the report uh you know it's proud of the report uh you know it's been I say it's like being pregnant for been I say it's like being pregnant for been I say it's like being pregnant for two years basically so it was kind of two years basically so it was kind of two years basically so it was kind of how how was the birst yeah I was very how how was the birst yeah I was very how how was the birst yeah I was very relieved to be done with that but but relieved to be done with that but but relieved to be done with that but but yeah but but the part that actually um yeah but but the part that actually um yeah but but the part that actually um Bill and Leonard helped me a lot so this Bill and Leonard helped me a lot so this Bill and Leonard helped me a lot so this one recommendation that I made um was one recommendation that I made um was one recommendation that I made um was called a Rec I called a little called a Rec I called a little called a Rec I called a little recommendation that could and it almost recommendation that could and it almost recommendation that could and it almost didn't get in a report people didn't didn't get in a report people didn't didn't get in a report people didn't think it was big enough uh which was to think it was big enough uh which was to think it was big enough uh which was to get the Privacy Information on the get the Privacy Information on the get the Privacy Information on the vehicle sticker uh labels and so um the vehicle sticker uh labels and so um the vehicle sticker uh labels and so um the the the recommendation had been proposed the the recommendation had been proposed the the recommendation had been proposed for many months I think it was in the

for many months I think it was in the for many months I think it was in the draft reports for over a year and then draft reports for over a year and then draft reports for over a year and then as we were finalize a report because we as we were finalize a report because we as we were finalize a report because we all there is a consensus thing so all there is a consensus thing so all there is a consensus thing so everyone has to agree or someone everyone has to agree or someone everyone has to agree or someone disagrees you have to discuss and you disagrees you have to discuss and you disagrees you have to discuss and you try to get consensus and stuff like that try to get consensus and stuff like that try to get consensus and stuff like that so we have voted to approve that in the so we have voted to approve that in the so we have voted to approve that in the report and then I we got word through a report and then I we got word through a report and then I we got word through a member that the um Alliance for member that the um Alliance for member that the um Alliance for automobile automobile automobile inovation wanted to kill the the inovation wanted to kill the the inovation wanted to kill the the recommendation about adding Privacy recommendation about adding Privacy recommendation about adding Privacy Information to the vehicle sticker so Information to the vehicle sticker so Information to the vehicle sticker so they sent a letter and they said hey we they sent a letter and they said hey we they sent a letter and they said hey we oppose this because you know that was oppose this because you know that was oppose this because you know that was pretty it's against ination you know it pretty it's against ination you know it pretty it's against ination you know it was just basically same tired things was just basically same tired things was just basically same tired things they shop around state to state when they shop around state to state when they shop around state to state when they try to kill bills around uh car they try to kill bills around uh car they try to kill bills around uh car stuff so anyway they did that they had a stuff so anyway they did that they had a stuff so anyway they did that they had a spokesman come in to speak and then I spokesman come in to speak and then I spokesman come in to speak and then I had to create a report uh about a more had to create a report uh about a more had to create a report uh about a more in- depth report because I had already in- depth report because I had already in- depth report because I had already so whenever you do these recommendations so whenever you do these recommendations so whenever you do these recommendations you have to present to the board like you have to present to the board like you have to present to the board like this is what we want this is why it's this is what we want this is why it's this is what we want this is why it's important and you you know you have important and you you know you have important and you you know you have discussion and stuff like that so I I discussion and stuff like that so I I discussion and stuff like that so I I had already that like a year before but had already that like a year before but had already that like a year before but this time because of this uh opposition this time because of this uh opposition this time because of this uh opposition I had to do it like just you know a big I had to do it like just you know a big I had to do it like just you know a big big way so oh yeah big pimping I had to big way so oh yeah big pimping I had to big way so oh yeah big pimping I had to go there so I so I created this massive go there so I so I created this massive go there so I so I created this massive report I think it was like 100 Pages or report I think it was like 100 Pages or report I think it was like 100 Pages or something it was impressive it was epic

something it was impressive it was epic something it was impressive it was epic all right like college resarch all right like college resarch all right like college resarch paper yeah it was ridiculous well the paper yeah it was ridiculous well the paper yeah it was ridiculous well the good thing is I I each board member I good thing is I I each board member I good thing is I I each board member I gave them my outline of what I want to gave them my outline of what I want to gave them my outline of what I want to talk about and I want to make sure like talk about and I want to make sure like talk about and I want to make sure like okay this is covering this is answer all okay this is covering this is answer all okay this is covering this is answer all your questions so people want us to know your questions so people want us to know your questions so people want us to know how much would it cost to change the how much would it cost to change the how much would it cost to change the vehicle sticker because I was like a vehicle sticker because I was like a vehicle sticker because I was like a thing you know is it is there room on thing you know is it is there room on thing you know is it is there room on the sticker you know so first of all the the sticker you know so first of all the the sticker you know so first of all the last you know so I did all that you know last you know so I did all that you know last you know so I did all that you know so I went back to the the transcripts so I went back to the the transcripts so I went back to the the transcripts from the the Oklahoma senator who's from the the Oklahoma senator who's from the the Oklahoma senator who's who created the vehicle sticker who created the vehicle sticker who created the vehicle sticker had to go back to the history of that had to go back to the history of that had to go back to the history of that from pricing to the cost to uh you know from pricing to the cost to uh you know from pricing to the cost to uh you know what agencies have stuff on the sticker what agencies have stuff on the sticker what agencies have stuff on the sticker you know one one thing that they would you know one one thing that they would you know one one thing that they would say is well the sticker is not big say is well the sticker is not big say is well the sticker is not big enough it's like there's no law saying enough it's like there's no law saying enough it's like there's no law saying it has to be a certain size okay so end it has to be a certain size okay so end it has to be a certain size okay so end the story but they say always it's too the story but they say always it's too the story but they say always it's too expensive you know the last time they expensive you know the last time they expensive you know the last time they did the study the national highway did the study the national highway did the study the national highway safety trans Transportation agency this safety trans Transportation agency this safety trans Transportation agency this is uh I don't know about 10 years ago is uh I don't know about 10 years ago is uh I don't know about 10 years ago they said it cost like 16 cents to add they said it cost like 16 cents to add they said it cost like 16 cents to add something to the sticker so it you know something to the sticker so it you know something to the sticker so it you know it's not very expensive it's not it's not very expensive it's not it's not very expensive it's not expensive it's not hard to do you may expensive it's not hard to do you may expensive it's not hard to do you may not want to do it and people like oh not want to do it and people like oh not want to do it and people like oh well this agency handles the sticker well this agency handles the sticker well this agency handles the sticker it's like no that that no agency has you it's like no that that no agency has you it's like no that that no agency has you know has um you know total control over know has um you know total control over know has um you know total control over the sticker there are certain things the sticker there are certain things the sticker there are certain things that have to be on the sticker so they that have to be on the sticker so they that have to be on the sticker so they they manage what's in their box in the they manage what's in their box in the they manage what's in their box in the sticker but they don't manage like the

sticker but they don't manage like the sticker but they don't manage like the whole sticker right so um because of whole sticker right so um because of whole sticker right so um because of that I asked Leonard and I asked Bill to that I asked Leonard and I asked Bill to that I asked Leonard and I asked Bill to send in letters to in support of the uh send in letters to in support of the uh send in letters to in support of the uh the recommendation and so your letters the recommendation and so your letters the recommendation and so your letters went to the board your letters are part went to the board your letters are part went to the board your letters are part of the federal record of the the of the federal record of the the of the federal record of the the proceeding and I think you're you're um proceeding and I think you're you're um proceeding and I think you're you're um noted report yeah so it's all official noted report yeah so it's all official noted report yeah so it's all official so yeah so yeah so yeah so I mean who knew Debbie that so I mean who knew Debbie that so I mean who knew Debbie that door who knew Debbie that you would need door who knew Debbie that you would need door who knew Debbie that you would need real estate on that sticker like that's real estate on that sticker like that's real estate on that sticker like that's my space that's my my space that's my my space that's my section I had to the these are are the section I had to the these are are the section I had to the these are are the common objections that you get for this common objections that you get for this common objections that you get for this and so I had to like go way deep to like and so I had to like go way deep to like and so I had to like go way deep to like find all this stuff you know so it was find all this stuff you know so it was find all this stuff you know so it was uh it was crazy so after that it was so uh it was crazy so after that it was so uh it was crazy so after that it was so funny so one of the the board members funny so one of the the board members funny so one of the the board members very vocal who's the CES guy he was very vocal who's the CES guy he was very vocal who's the CES guy he was opposed to it and so uh him and then opposed to it and so uh him and then opposed to it and so uh him and then this lobbyist group and so after I this lobbyist group and so after I this lobbyist group and so after I finished my presentation he completely finished my presentation he completely finished my presentation he completely changed his TB so he okay well there I mean if he had came up with well there I mean if he had came up with another hundred pages and been like well another hundred pages and been like well another hundred pages and been like well this is why I don't then this is why I don't then this is why I don't then yeah I'm not about to go and do that yeah I'm not about to go and do that yeah I'm not about to go and do that like white flag I'm like white flag I'm like white flag I'm done yeah so it was a bit of a done yeah so it was a bit of a done yeah so it was a bit of a slugfest uh you know is it's interesting slugfest uh you know is it's interesting slugfest uh you know is it's interesting so the first article that came out about

so the first article that came out about so the first article that came out about the report again like there are over 100 the report again like there are over 100 the report again like there are over 100 recommendations in the report the the recommendations in the report the the recommendations in the report the the article that was written was about that article that was written was about that article that was written was about that sticker wow so it's definitely something sticker wow so it's definitely something sticker wow so it's definitely something that that that people are really that that that people are really that that that people are really interested in actually I think I have a interested in actually I think I have a interested in actually I think I have a u one of my other fellow members on the u one of my other fellow members on the u one of my other fellow members on the board he's actually working with a board he's actually working with a board he's actually working with a Global Group around I and they are very Global Group around I and they are very Global Group around I and they are very interested in that in Europe now so he's interested in that in Europe now so he's interested in that in Europe now so he's speaking at a conference next week wow speaking at a conference next week wow speaking at a conference next week wow about vehicle stickers and privacy about vehicle stickers and privacy about vehicle stickers and privacy interesting wow yeah something for them interesting wow yeah something for them interesting wow yeah something for them versus them always yeah exactly the versus them always yeah exactly the versus them always yeah exactly the other way around but yeah yeah really other way around but yeah yeah really other way around but yeah yeah really quickly you so the opt out when she quickly you so the opt out when she quickly you so the opt out when she mentioned opt out Steve you like kind of mentioned opt out Steve you like kind of mentioned opt out Steve you like kind of made a funny face what the hell was that made a funny face what the hell was that made a funny face what the hell was that about well I'm just trying to think about well I'm just trying to think about well I'm just trying to think about where that takes place right so about where that takes place right so about where that takes place right so does that take place on a device does that take place on a device does that take place on a device management platform is that going to you management platform is that going to you management platform is that going to you know iot core does that get done by the know iot core does that get done by the know iot core does that get done by the Sim guy you know so I'm like going oh my Sim guy you know so I'm like going oh my Sim guy you know so I'm like going oh my I'm just thinking about the Optics and I'm just thinking about the Optics and I'm just thinking about the Optics and the procedures of being able to get that the procedures of being able to get that the procedures of being able to get that done operationally yeah it's definitely done operationally yeah it's definitely done operationally yeah it's definitely going to be a challenge um I know it can going to be a challenge um I know it can going to be a challenge um I know it can be done uh I be done uh I be done uh I think I think the problem that we have think I think the problem that we have think I think the problem that we have is that the work currently is on the is that the work currently is on the is that the work currently is on the consumer right so so we need to switch consumer right so so we need to switch consumer right so so we need to switch that around where the work needs to be

that around where the work needs to be that around where the work needs to be on the the device makers and people who on the the device makers and people who on the the device makers and people who have these services to make it easier have these services to make it easier have these services to make it easier for the person for the person for the person uh to to do those OP Downs I mean yeah uh to to do those OP Downs I mean yeah uh to to do those OP Downs I mean yeah but I mean if you look at the consumer but I mean if you look at the consumer but I mean if you look at the consumer markets and there so you know all the markets and there so you know all the markets and there so you know all the different variety of home automation different variety of home automation different variety of home automation software being used that's third party software being used that's third party software being used that's third party has no relationship to the camera or the has no relationship to the camera or the has no relationship to the camera or the sensor you know I I I agree with the the sensor you know I I I agree with the the sensor you know I I I agree with the the price the policy and what you talked price the policy and what you talked price the policy and what you talked about but I just I'm just looking at it about but I just I'm just looking at it about but I just I'm just looking at it from an execution standpoint I'm like from an execution standpoint I'm like from an execution standpoint I'm like how hell where do you begin because we how hell where do you begin because we how hell where do you begin because we because even on the Enterprise B2B because even on the Enterprise B2B because even on the Enterprise B2B commercial side end of lifing stuff or commercial side end of lifing stuff or commercial side end of lifing stuff or recycling Tac recycling Tac recycling Tac imis I mean that's I mean that's a big imis I mean that's I mean that's a big imis I mean that's I mean that's a big business right now I mean exactly yeah business right now I mean exactly yeah business right now I mean exactly yeah but you know you know here's the thing but you know you know here's the thing but you know you know here's the thing I've been telling uh companies lately I've been telling uh companies lately I've been telling uh companies lately that have been making a stink about you that have been making a stink about you that have been making a stink about you know some of their their groups talk know some of their their groups talk know some of their their groups talk about how security and privacy stifle about how security and privacy stifle about how security and privacy stifle Innovation you actually hear them say Innovation you actually hear them say Innovation you actually hear them say that I said why why that attitude and that I said why why that attitude and that I said why why that attitude and they go what do you mean like how come they go what do you mean like how come they go what do you mean like how come you don't see that those as areas of you don't see that those as areas of you don't see that those as areas of innovation right you can do that it'll innovation right you can do that it'll innovation right you can do that it'll be a differentiator for you you can then be a differentiator for you you can then be a differentiator for you you can then turn that around sell it to your turn that around sell it to your turn that around sell it to your customer as a value proposition why do customer as a value proposition why do customer as a value proposition why do you guys keep thinking about this in you guys keep thinking about this in you guys keep thinking about this in this Twisted way who yeah who so if this Twisted way who yeah who so if this Twisted way who yeah who so if someone came up to you and said someone came up to you and said someone came up to you and said quality gets in the way of innovation quality gets in the way of innovation quality gets in the way of innovation because you're subscribed to this because you're subscribed to this because you're subscribed to this mentality of throwing up against

mentality of throwing up against mentality of throwing up against the wall just to see if it sticks right the wall just to see if it sticks right the wall just to see if it sticks right I mean come I mean come I mean come on trusted thing trusted technology on trusted thing trusted technology on trusted thing trusted technology trusted technology is the new it's like trusted technology is the new it's like trusted technology is the new it's like opportunity the technology we talked opportunity the technology we talked opportunity the technology we talked about in AI all the time how do you get about in AI all the time how do you get about in AI all the time how do you get transparency and auditability on AI and transparency and auditability on AI and transparency and auditability on AI and and same with the stuff that Debbie's and same with the stuff that Debbie's and same with the stuff that Debbie's doing we just need more trusted doing we just need more trusted doing we just need more trusted technology and that means awareness and technology and that means awareness and technology and that means awareness and you know it is an opportunity for those you know it is an opportunity for those you know it is an opportunity for those that lean in it becomes a that lean in it becomes a that lean in it becomes a differentiator I think too it's I was G differentiator I think too it's I was G differentiator I think too it's I was G to say too sorry Bill go ahead no no go to say too sorry Bill go ahead no no go to say too sorry Bill go ahead no no go ahead St I was to say it's it's also one ahead St I was to say it's it's also one ahead St I was to say it's it's also one one thing to be a consumer and purchase one thing to be a consumer and purchase one thing to be a consumer and purchase something and on board it and set it up something and on board it and set it up something and on board it and set it up and have the option it's another thing and have the option it's another thing and have the option it's another thing to purchase something or be around to purchase something or be around to purchase something or be around something and your data is attached to something and your data is attached to something and your data is attached to it there's something that's connected it there's something that's connected it there's something that's connected and the consumer has no idea and the and the consumer has no idea and the and the consumer has no idea and the consumer has no idea that their data is consumer has no idea that their data is consumer has no idea that their data is being leveraged or used for being leveraged or used for being leveraged or used for anything especially those that are anything especially those that are anything especially those that are making money off of it or selling that making money off of it or selling that making money off of it or selling that data that's it's just two different kind data that's it's just two different kind data that's it's just two different kind of scenarios there and I think on the of scenarios there and I think on the of scenarios there and I think on the Enterprise side yeah that's a whole Enterprise side yeah that's a whole Enterprise side yeah that's a whole another ball game and we take take the another ball game and we take take the another ball game and we take take the consumer out of the picture in terms of consumer out of the picture in terms of consumer out of the picture in terms of what what they're opting into what what what they're opting into what what what they're opting into what they're opting out of or are they aware they're opting out of or are they aware they're opting out of or are they aware of it but I mean but it's been pushed of it but I mean but it's been pushed of it but I mean but it's been pushed down to the consumer right I mean right down to the consumer right I mean right down to the consumer right I mean right at the end of for the start technology at the end of for the start technology at the end of for the start technology was changing so fast and in the was changing so fast and in the was changing so fast and in the background the the businesses whether

background the the businesses whether background the the businesses whether they're small medium or large started they're small medium or large started they're small medium or large started saying well the value is not in this saying well the value is not in this saying well the value is not in this device that we're selling the value is device that we're selling the value is device that we're selling the value is actually in the interaction that's actually in the interaction that's actually in the interaction that's happening over there and like just Debby happening over there and like just Debby happening over there and like just Debby like I mentioned yesterday of the opt like I mentioned yesterday of the opt like I mentioned yesterday of the opt out and and all of this kind of came out and and all of this kind of came out and and all of this kind of came about through education and awareness about through education and awareness about through education and awareness when people started ranting and raving when people started ranting and raving when people started ranting and raving about this is what's happening to me and about this is what's happening to me and about this is what's happening to me and then you start feeling it back and then you start feeling it back and then you start feeling it back and looking at it and I made the example looking at it and I made the example looking at it and I made the example yesterday of yesterday of yesterday of Roku so my home is pretty much fully Roku so my home is pretty much fully Roku so my home is pretty much fully automated and then I put I put Roku in automated and then I put I put Roku in automated and then I put I put Roku in to kind of run through all of the TVs to kind of run through all of the TVs to kind of run through all of the TVs that are in the in the house all right that are in the in the house all right that are in the in the house all right there's eight of them same here and when there's eight of them same here and when there's eight of them same here and when you when you sign up for Roku and you go you when you sign up for Roku and you go you when you sign up for Roku and you go through and look at their third party through and look at their third party through and look at their third party data partners that they go hey it's not data partners that they go hey it's not data partners that they go hey it's not us if you really want to opt out you got us if you really want to opt out you got us if you really want to opt out you got to go through them and you start to go through them and you start to go through them and you start clicking through that and clicking and clicking through that and clicking and clicking through that and clicking and clicking clicking and you find out that clicking clicking and you find out that clicking clicking and you find out that oh wait a minute 50% of them you can't oh wait a minute 50% of them you can't oh wait a minute 50% of them you can't opt out of because they make it too opt out of because they make it too opt out of because they make it too difficult so they they go I give up I difficult so they they go I give up I difficult so they they go I give up I want the service my position was well want the service my position was well want the service my position was well actually you know what I don't give up actually you know what I don't give up actually you know what I don't give up kill the Roku stuff I'm bringing in kill the Roku stuff I'm bringing in kill the Roku stuff I'm bringing in Apple Apple Apple TV yeah right so you're talking about TV yeah right so you're talking about TV yeah right so you're talking about consumer fatigue they just end up giving consumer fatigue they just end up giving consumer fatigue they just end up giving it they might go they might start that it they might go they might start that it they might go they might start that process and then they're done yeah process and then they're done yeah process and then they're done yeah Innovation that I was talking about

Innovation that I was talking about Innovation that I was talking about earlier you know like these guys that earlier you know like these guys that earlier you know like these guys that create these websites where it says you create these websites where it says you create these websites where it says you know the the whole um window or the the know the the whole um window or the the know the the whole um window or the the the function that they have to opt out the function that they have to opt out the function that they have to opt out of having your um you know your personal of having your um you know your personal of having your um you know your personal information sold to third parties opting information sold to third parties opting information sold to third parties opting out of that the language is confusing out of that the language is confusing out of that the language is confusing the toggle is confusing you know I I the toggle is confusing you know I I the toggle is confusing you know I I mean but that you know that's so telling mean but that you know that's so telling mean but that you know that's so telling though for that brand and I think that's though for that brand and I think that's though for that brand and I think that's where you call compan compies out like where you call compan compies out like where you call compan compies out like that that try to pull Shenanigans like that that try to pull Shenanigans like that that try to pull Shenanigans like this that they really don't give a crap this that they really don't give a crap this that they really don't give a crap about your privacy they they're putting about your privacy they they're putting about your privacy they they're putting your data before you you know they're your data before you you know they're your data before you you know they're putting their money putting they're putting their money putting they're putting their money putting they're putting their business before you that's putting their business before you that's putting their business before you that's right yeah right and I mean and and so I right yeah right and I mean and and so I right yeah right and I mean and and so I know Pete Pete jumped up and I was gonna know Pete Pete jumped up and I was gonna know Pete Pete jumped up and I was gonna get get into it because he looked at me get get into it because he looked at me get get into it because he looked at me when I said I'm I'm gonna go Apple TV when I said I'm I'm gonna go Apple TV when I said I'm I'm gonna go Apple TV well the reason being is that Apple at well the reason being is that Apple at well the reason being is that Apple at least is upfront totally least is upfront totally least is upfront totally they're upfront and leading in terms of they're upfront and leading in terms of they're upfront and leading in terms of transparency right right going to Dallas transparency right right going to Dallas transparency right right going to Dallas and they had that or actually wasn't and they had that or actually wasn't and they had that or actually wasn't Dallas it was Vegas and that was their Dallas it was Vegas and that was their Dallas it was Vegas and that was their big billboard was privacy first that was big billboard was privacy first that was big billboard was privacy first that was like what three years ago some event like what three years ago some event like what three years ago some event that I was at before no before Co so that I was at before no before Co so that I was at before no before Co so maybe four five years I think you know maybe four five years I think you know maybe four five years I think you know radical transparency can be profitable radical transparency can be profitable radical transparency can be profitable and I think Apple was trying to tell and I think Apple was trying to tell and I think Apple was trying to tell people and so being able to really lean people and so being able to really lean people and so being able to really lean into that as a as a way to innovate

into that as a as a way to innovate into that as a as a way to innovate instead of trying to put all the work on instead of trying to put all the work on instead of trying to put all the work on a consumer who you know we have other a consumer who you know we have other a consumer who you know we have other stuff to do besides looking at Roku yeah stuff to do besides looking at Roku yeah stuff to do besides looking at Roku yeah and laughed out of stuff and then you and laughed out of stuff and then you and laughed out of stuff and then you know if you if you're I tell companies know if you if you're I tell companies know if you if you're I tell companies if you're doing something for the if you're doing something for the if you're doing something for the benefits the person they'll want to give benefits the person they'll want to give benefits the person they'll want to give you data right because it benefits them you data right because it benefits them you data right because it benefits them and so where you where you go off the and so where you where you go off the and so where you where you go off the rails is that you're doing stuff with rails is that you're doing stuff with rails is that you're doing stuff with data that people don't know about and it data that people don't know about and it data that people don't know about and it does not benefit them and you make it does not benefit them and you make it does not benefit them and you make it hard for them to opt out see yeah hard for them to opt out see yeah hard for them to opt out see yeah thing that I sorry Bill go no no go thing that I sorry Bill go no no go thing that I sorry Bill go no no go ahead Steve so Debbie was that Benson ahead Steve so Debbie was that Benson ahead Steve so Debbie was that Benson Chan's committee yeah Chan's committee yeah Chan's committee yeah yeah all right yeah is that public or yeah all right yeah is that public or yeah all right yeah is that public or is it is yeah it's public I actually is it is yeah it's public I actually is it is yeah it's public I actually posted something on LinkedIn today it posted something on LinkedIn today it posted something on LinkedIn today it has the um yesterday it has the report has the um yesterday it has the report has the um yesterday it has the report yeah the report is public the the yeah the report is public the the yeah the report is public the the proceedings were public my Smackdown was proceedings were public my Smackdown was proceedings were public my Smackdown was public I was like I like blacked out I public I was like I like blacked out I public I was like I like blacked out I was so mad I don't mess with I don't mess with Debbie part two yeah it was ridiculous Debbie part two yeah it was ridiculous Debbie part two yeah it was ridiculous so Stephanie that that SOS ID was so Stephanie that that SOS ID was so Stephanie that that SOS ID was presented to the committee a way to be presented to the committee a way to be presented to the committee a way to be able to look at identity security within able to look at identity security within able to look at identity security within iot so we Ben and we present it to them iot so we Ben and we present it to them iot so we Ben and we present it to them too nice the only thing that I will say too nice the only thing that I will say too nice the only thing that I will say and I mean I'm not saying this is for and I mean I'm not saying this is for and I mean I'm not saying this is for everyone but because my home is so

everyone but because my home is so everyone but because my home is so connected and and there's a trust issue connected and and there's a trust issue connected and and there's a trust issue right across the board so I've got I right across the board so I've got I right across the board so I've got I mean and and who you select for your mean and and who you select for your mean and and who you select for your Hardware provider is just as important Hardware provider is just as important Hardware provider is just as important as any other action so if I if I unravel as any other action so if I if I unravel as any other action so if I if I unravel people are like your home is really people are like your home is really people are like your home is really connected like that yeah it is and I've connected like that yeah it is and I've connected like that yeah it is and I've got just as many problems as as the big got just as many problems as as the big got just as many problems as as the big boys do I my my firewalls they're for to boys do I my my firewalls they're for to boys do I my my firewalls they're for to oh but damn foret just got hit recently oh but damn foret just got hit recently oh but damn foret just got hit recently and it's like how do you how do you I and it's like how do you how do you I and it's like how do you how do you I mean how many layers how far back do you mean how many layers how far back do you mean how many layers how far back do you have to go yeah to Institute any level have to go yeah to Institute any level have to go yeah to Institute any level of security where you can go it's 100% of security where you can go it's 100% of security where you can go it's 100% ins inside my network I run a ins inside my network I run a ins inside my network I run a distributed distributed distributed Ledger inside my network no way in the Ledger inside my network no way in the Ledger inside my network no way in the house you're crazy house you're crazy house you're crazy dude you got way too much time on your dude you got way too much time on your dude you got way too much time on your hands well I mean we need to do a hands well I mean we need to do a hands well I mean we need to do a documentary me that that underscores I documentary me that that underscores I documentary me that that underscores I mean PE we as technologist we have mean PE we as technologist we have mean PE we as technologist we have trouble managing this so how can just trouble managing this so how can just trouble managing this so how can just someone's grandma or someone's grandma or someone's grandma or some how can a regular person is not some how can a regular person is not some how can a regular person is not into technology manage this it's like into technology manage this it's like into technology manage this it's like entirely too hard and so you know the entirely too hard and so you know the entirely too hard and so you know the companies they have the money they have companies they have the money they have companies they have the money they have the technology they have the talent you the technology they have the talent you the technology they have the talent you know we put the man we put a man on the know we put the man we put a man on the know we put the man we put a man on the moon over 50 years ago so please don't moon over 50 years ago so please don't moon over 50 years ago so please don't tell me that you you don't know how to tell me that you you don't know how to tell me that you you don't know how to do this like know we have talent we know

do this like know we have talent we know do this like know we have talent we know we can do this I mean that's the thing we can do this I mean that's the thing we can do this I mean that's the thing is is there's a there's a level I mean is is there's a there's a level I mean is is there's a there's a level I mean me saying I put a distributed Ledger in me saying I put a distributed Ledger in me saying I put a distributed Ledger in is my level of paranoia yeah 100% I is my level of paranoia yeah 100% I is my level of paranoia yeah 100% I don't trust yeah you know too much don't trust yeah you know too much don't trust yeah you know too much man you're the worst you're the worst man you're the worst you're the worst man you're the worst you're the worst buyer that we want to sell to buyer that we want to sell to buyer that we want to sell to absolutely not using public Wii let's absolutely not using public Wii let's absolutely not using public Wii let's talk about this the bill is not using talk about this the bill is not using talk about this the bill is not using public Wi-Fi for anything no it's us us public Wi-Fi for anything no it's us us public Wi-Fi for anything no it's us us two cans in a string tied to two cans in a string tied to two cans in a string tied to exactly but it is true I mean and I exactly but it is true I mean and I exactly but it is true I mean and I think like the type of work that Debbie think like the type of work that Debbie think like the type of work that Debbie does um that I actually think a lot of does um that I actually think a lot of does um that I actually think a lot of us do if not all of us is provide that us do if not all of us is provide that us do if not all of us is provide that uh that perspective to improve everyone uh that perspective to improve everyone uh that perspective to improve everyone else's perspective on technology and else's perspective on technology and else's perspective on technology and these things that are so esoteric and these things that are so esoteric and these things that are so esoteric and difficult to grasp and understand I mean difficult to grasp and understand I mean difficult to grasp and understand I mean even the simple um concept of privacy even the simple um concept of privacy even the simple um concept of privacy people don't know what that means it people don't know what that means it people don't know what that means it it's it's it's incredible and um I was explaining this incredible and um I was explaining this incredible and um I was explaining this to a executive I said you know what I to a executive I said you know what I to a executive I said you know what I talked to so many companies and I talked talked to so many companies and I talked talked to so many companies and I talked to their C uh cesos and chief um AI to their C uh cesos and chief um AI to their C uh cesos and chief um AI officers and when we talk about privacy officers and when we talk about privacy officers and when we talk about privacy I I have to really scratch my head I I have to really scratch my head I I have to really scratch my head wondering you know do you guys do you wondering you know do you guys do you wondering you know do you guys do you even know the basics of this stuffff even know the basics of this stuffff even know the basics of this stuffff because you are not talking about

because you are not talking about because you are not talking about privacy you know you're talking about privacy you know you're talking about privacy you know you're talking about data protection but that's not privacy data protection but that's not privacy data protection but that's not privacy that's an element that's an element that's an element enabler but it it it enabler but it it it enabler but it it it transcends just the technology itself transcends just the technology itself transcends just the technology itself it's also a set of policies and beliefs it's also a set of policies and beliefs it's also a set of policies and beliefs and values that and values that and values that informs how you informs how you informs how you Institute technology to Foster your Institute technology to Foster your Institute technology to Foster your commitment to protecting the privacy of commitment to protecting the privacy of commitment to protecting the privacy of your your customers your partners and if your your customers your partners and if your your customers your partners and if you fail in those cap capabil capacities you fail in those cap capabil capacities you fail in those cap capabil capacities it can be catastrophic you know and um it can be catastrophic you know and um it can be catastrophic you know and um that P that perspective I'm telling you that P that perspective I'm telling you that P that perspective I'm telling you guys is generally not there yeah it's guys is generally not there yeah it's guys is generally not there yeah it's scary and Leonard I'm gonna parlay what scary and Leonard I'm gonna parlay what scary and Leonard I'm gonna parlay what you just said from a iot security you just said from a iot security you just said from a iot security standpoint we could talk to we're bleue standpoint we could talk to we're bleue standpoint we could talk to we're bleue in the face about the security aspects in the face about the security aspects in the face about the security aspects and the privacy issues around and the privacy issues around and the privacy issues around iot but I think what unfortunate the iot but I think what unfortunate the iot but I think what unfortunate the change that's going to have to happen is change that's going to have to happen is change that's going to have to happen is going to be caused when criminally going to be caused when criminally going to be caused when criminally criminal charges are brought against criminal charges are brought against criminal charges are brought against cesos for violations and for breakdowns cesos for violations and for breakdowns cesos for violations and for breakdowns of security when these guys are taken of security when these guys are taken of security when these guys are taken out of a place in handcuffs for breaking out of a place in handcuffs for breaking out of a place in handcuffs for breaking security levels I I think then you're security levels I I think then you're security levels I I think then you're going to find but dude dude it it has to going to find but dude dude it it has to going to find but dude dude it it has to do with product I mean one of the things do with product I mean one of the things do with product I mean one of the things that Debbie and I always talk about on that Debbie and I always talk about on that Debbie and I always talk about on the podcast we do together on my my

the podcast we do together on my my the podcast we do together on my my podcast we always talk about it's not a podcast we always talk about it's not a podcast we always talk about it's not a not the cesos responsibility it it is not the cesos responsibility it it is not the cesos responsibility it it is entire yeah you know if you're going to entire yeah you know if you're going to entire yeah you know if you're going to bake privacy in you know privacy bake privacy in you know privacy bake privacy in you know privacy protection into your products that means protection into your products that means protection into your products that means that that's a that's a philosophy at the that that's a that's a philosophy at the that that's a that's a philosophy at the highest level of that organization in highest level of that organization in highest level of that organization in terms of you know what what is important terms of you know what what is important terms of you know what what is important for for us in terms of the way that we for for us in terms of the way that we for for us in terms of the way that we deliver value to our customers through deliver value to our customers through deliver value to our customers through our product and our product and our product and services seeis so they have to worry services seeis so they have to worry services seeis so they have to worry about the enabling part protecting the about the enabling part protecting the about the enabling part protecting the organization and then you know many some organization and then you know many some organization and then you know many some implications that products and services implications that products and services implications that products and services may have um to the the organization its may have um to the the organization its may have um to the the organization its customers Partners right that's a that's customers Partners right that's a that's customers Partners right that's a that's further down in the conversation but if further down in the conversation but if further down in the conversation but if you you know and that's why it always you you know and that's why it always you you know and that's why it always irks me when you have all these other irks me when you have all these other irks me when you have all these other compan talk crap about Apple and what compan talk crap about Apple and what compan talk crap about Apple and what they're doing with ATT and everything they're doing with ATT and everything they're doing with ATT and everything else that they do that they claim else that they do that they claim else that they do that they claim privacy you go and you vet what they do privacy you go and you vet what they do privacy you go and you vet what they do architecturally they they are innovating architecturally they they are innovating architecturally they they are innovating in enabling these higher levels of uh in enabling these higher levels of uh in enabling these higher levels of uh privacy protection and and you know and privacy protection and and you know and privacy protection and and you know and putting that control in the consumer's putting that control in the consumer's putting that control in the consumer's hands empowering them you see it it's hands empowering them you see it it's hands empowering them you see it it's architecturally there it has nothing to architecturally there it has nothing to architecturally there it has nothing to do with the ceso or the security officer do with the ceso or the security officer do with the ceso or the security officer has everything to do with the product has everything to do with the product has everything to do with the product team saying privacy is important and we

team saying privacy is important and we team saying privacy is important and we are not only infusing this into the are not only infusing this into the are not only infusing this into the products but if you look at stuff like products but if you look at stuff like products but if you look at stuff like um you know their private Cloud what I um you know their private Cloud what I um you know their private Cloud what I keep forgetting what the hell it's keep forgetting what the hell it's keep forgetting what the hell it's called private called private called private Cloud something or whatever forgot Cloud something or whatever forgot Cloud something or whatever forgot talking about yeah yeah that that you go talking about yeah yeah that that you go talking about yeah yeah that that you go and read the the technical stuff it's and read the the technical stuff it's and read the the technical stuff it's like holy slick I sck yeah it's not like holy slick I sck yeah it's not like holy slick I sck yeah it's not service just that it's not an service just that it's not an service just that it's not an afterthought like with most OEM and it's afterthought like with most OEM and it's afterthought like with most OEM and it's not something we're going to react to not something we're going to react to not something we're going to react to only when the consumer or the the only when the consumer or the the only when the consumer or the the business or the government pushes back business or the government pushes back business or the government pushes back on us but you won't care about it until on us but you won't care about it until on us but you won't care about it until it happens to it happens to it happens to you that's and that's what they expect you that's and that's what they expect you that's and that's what they expect from people that that they're not smart from people that that they're not smart from people that that they're not smart enough now to even make the informed enough now to even make the informed enough now to even make the informed decision to say I want privacy first but decision to say I want privacy first but decision to say I want privacy first but but but so so okay so this is the this but but so so okay so this is the this but but so so okay so this is the this is the thing and this is why I've always is the thing and this is why I've always is the thing and this is why I've always enjoyed my talks with with with Debbie enjoyed my talks with with with Debbie enjoyed my talks with with with Debbie is I'm gonna it I hear the Privacy stuff is I'm gonna it I hear the Privacy stuff is I'm gonna it I hear the Privacy stuff and then I watch what happens and I and then I watch what happens and I and then I watch what happens and I watch the arguments and I'm listening watch the arguments and I'm listening watch the arguments and I'm listening I'm listening and it always comes back I'm listening and it always comes back I'm listening and it always comes back to cyber to cyber to cyber security it it comes back so it for me security it it comes back so it for me security it it comes back so it for me it's it's it's it's it's it's 100% Providence governance and 100% Providence governance and 100% Providence governance and transparency great and the foundation of transparency great and the foundation of transparency great and the foundation of that is how secure are your end points that is how secure are your end points that is how secure are your end points and then up the stat and then up the stat and then up the stat because people are like oh well it's you because people are like oh well it's you because people are like oh well it's you know AES 256 I don't care that's know AES 256 I don't care that's know AES 256 I don't care that's encryption that's not cyber security

encryption that's not cyber security encryption that's not cyber security right oh well you know I've got app right oh well you know I've got app right oh well you know I've got app layer security okay well let's talk layer security okay well let's talk layer security okay well let's talk about layers one through three and you about layers one through three and you about layers one through three and you got TLS 1.3 if you don't you got a got TLS 1.3 if you don't you got a got TLS 1.3 if you don't you got a problem and let's continue to go up that problem and let's continue to go up that problem and let's continue to go up that stack once we have that foundationally stack once we have that foundationally stack once we have that foundationally set your your your privacy should be in set your your your privacy should be in set your your your privacy should be in step with everything that you're doing step with everything that you're doing step with everything that you're doing cyber security wise to understand what cyber security wise to understand what cyber security wise to understand what what access controls do you have to any what access controls do you have to any what access controls do you have to any specific data what data is not specific data what data is not specific data what data is not accessible what data and that's where accessible what data and that's where accessible what data and that's where underlying to all of that for critical underlying to all of that for critical underlying to all of that for critical infrastructure I'm like yeah you know infrastructure I'm like yeah you know infrastructure I'm like yeah you know what this whole DT stuff not talking what this whole DT stuff not talking what this whole DT stuff not talking blockchain talking blockchain is but I'm blockchain talking blockchain is but I'm blockchain talking blockchain is but I'm not talking blockchain distributed not talking blockchain distributed not talking blockchain distributed Ledger technology on that end of it is Ledger technology on that end of it is Ledger technology on that end of it is in my opinion is Paramount a negative in my opinion is Paramount a negative in my opinion is Paramount a negative word d dude bro talking about Edge word d dude bro talking about Edge word d dude bro talking about Edge Automation and all of that how do I Automation and all of that how do I Automation and all of that how do I trust those commands how do I trust that trust those commands how do I trust that trust those commands how do I trust that data hey you what yeah I always say just data hey you what yeah I always say just data hey you what yeah I always say just to make it simple if you can't protect to make it simple if you can't protect to make it simple if you can't protect it don't collect it right so that goes it don't collect it right so that goes it don't collect it right so that goes privacy cyber Bas I'm really scared to privacy cyber Bas I'm really scared to privacy cyber Bas I'm really scared to hear about the conversations between you hear about the conversations between you hear about the conversations between you Bill and Debbie because Bill's like Bill and Debbie because Bill's like Bill and Debbie because Bill's like hangs up the phone he's like what else hangs up the phone he's like what else hangs up the phone he's like what else can I do can I do can I do I what else can I what else can I what else can I yeah but I gotta say something and I yeah but I gotta say something and I yeah but I gotta say something and it's like you're talking smack about it's like you're talking smack about it's like you're talking smack about blockchain dude take it back because blockchain dude take it back because blockchain dude take it back because those crypto guys hijack that you know those crypto guys hijack that you know those crypto guys hijack that you know there's nothing wrong with blockchain

there's nothing wrong with blockchain there's nothing wrong with blockchain those guys hijack that take it back man those guys hijack that take it back man those guys hijack that take it back man it's not that it's not that so I I I I it's not that it's not that so I I I I it's not that it's not that so I I I I look at it okay so this is this is the look at it okay so this is this is the look at it okay so this is this is the thing right we have terms that are that thing right we have terms that are that thing right we have terms that are that are used within the within the space are used within the within the space are used within the within the space right so you you say blockchain all right so you you say blockchain all right so you you say blockchain all right now technically my My head goes to right now technically my My head goes to right now technically my My head goes to okay is it ethereum base is it this and okay is it ethereum base is it this and okay is it ethereum base is it this and that and I'm like forget all of that and I'm like forget all of that and I'm like forget all of that same thing with digital twins you that same thing with digital twins you that same thing with digital twins you now everybody has one and I'm like okay now everybody has one and I'm like okay now everybody has one and I'm like okay so I'm not using those so I'm not using those so I'm not using those terms let's talk a little bit different terms let's talk a little bit different terms let's talk a little bit different right yeah distrib technology as an a right yeah distrib technology as an a right yeah distrib technology as an a mutable way and transparent way to lock mutable way and transparent way to lock mutable way and transparent way to lock down your your data transactions oh yeah down your your data transactions oh yeah down your your data transactions oh yeah don't get me wrong you know like a SE don't get me wrong you know like a SE don't get me wrong you know like a SE now going on almost six years ago that now going on almost six years ago that now going on almost six years ago that piece that that research piece that that research piece that that research thing that I did for um um you know um thing that I did for um um you know um thing that I did for um um you know um ofcom we avoided the term blockchain ofcom we avoided the term blockchain ofcom we avoided the term blockchain blockchain we call it D yeah DT and blockchain we call it D yeah DT and blockchain we call it D yeah DT and nobody was doing that everyone was still nobody was doing that everyone was still nobody was doing that everyone was still calling it blockchain but we calling it blockchain but we calling it blockchain but we intentionally call I you know I intentionally call I you know I intentionally call I you know I intentionally call it um you know intentionally call it um you know intentionally call it um you know distributed Ledger technology because distributed Ledger technology because distributed Ledger technology because the at that time the crypto Community the at that time the crypto Community the at that time the crypto Community was was was hijacking um blockchain that term so hijacking um blockchain that term so hijacking um blockchain that term so yeah no but I I was just suggesting yeah no but I I was just suggesting yeah no but I I was just suggesting maybe it's time to take it back you know maybe it's time to take it back you know maybe it's time to take it back you know what I'm what I'm what I'm saying I'm not I'm not saying I'm not I'm not saying I'm not I'm not gonna kill that gonna kill that gonna kill that Dam distributed Ledger

Dam distributed Ledger Dam distributed Ledger technology Bill a bill is opting out of technology Bill a bill is opting out of technology Bill a bill is opting out of that all that all that all the 100% yeah we we talked about we the 100% yeah we we talked about we the 100% yeah we we talked about we talked about well what's the what's the talked about well what's the what's the talked about well what's the what's the use case what's the what problem are you use case what's the what problem are you use case what's the what problem are you solving and and and and Steph knows this solving and and and and Steph knows this solving and and and and Steph knows this I've been hammering on this one in I've been hammering on this one in I've been hammering on this one in particular everyone's still talking particular everyone's still talking particular everyone's still talking about connected Vehicles VA I VA X all about connected Vehicles VA I VA X all about connected Vehicles VA I VA X all these other things if you don't have a these other things if you don't have a these other things if you don't have a way to understand who did what way to understand who did what way to understand who did what when it's going to be out of control when it's going to be out of control when it's going to be out of control yeah it is going to be out of the yeah it is going to be out of the yeah it is going to be out of the control you will indeed introduce the control you will indeed introduce the control you will indeed introduce the opportunity for man the midal attacks opportunity for man the midal attacks opportunity for man the midal attacks dos attacks all of these uh known dos attacks all of these uh known dos attacks all of these uh known attacks you're attacks you're attacks you're not speaking of that bill I have to get not speaking of that bill I have to get not speaking of that bill I have to get some props actually both of you guys so some props actually both of you guys so some props actually both of you guys so bill um has an iot was an iot innovator bill um has an iot was an iot innovator bill um has an iot was an iot innovator awarde this week for True North and awarde this week for True North and awarde this week for True North and specific to their digital twin digital specific to their digital twin digital specific to their digital twin digital twin Innovation and Steve's clant SOS is twin Innovation and Steve's clant SOS is twin Innovation and Steve's clant SOS is also on that list so y'all need to check also on that list so y'all need to check also on that list so y'all need to check it out um yeah if you haven't seen the it out um yeah if you haven't seen the it out um yeah if you haven't seen the press release yeah there's that that was press release yeah there's that that was press release yeah there's that that was a it's a big part of what I've been a it's a big part of what I've been a it's a big part of what I've been learning from bill is on his digital learning from bill is on his digital learning from bill is on his digital twin Journey It's been a Journey twin Journey It's been a Journey twin Journey It's been a Journey congratulations congratulations congratulations so the true north team is coming through so the true north team is coming through so the true north team is coming through yeah they're silently like breaking the yeah they're silently like breaking the yeah they're silently like breaking the mold here just wait yeah no

mold here just wait yeah no mold here just wait yeah no congratulations congratulations congratulations man yes yeah it's no you know we it was man yes yeah it's no you know we it was man yes yeah it's no you know we it was like 250 almost 250 episodes and we we like 250 almost 250 episodes and we we like 250 almost 250 episodes and we we we beat that digital twin horse death I we beat that digital twin horse death I we beat that digital twin horse death I know many how many up how many episodes know many how many up how many episodes know many how many up how many episodes do we have where we talk about digital do we have where we talk about digital do we have where we talk about digital Twins and blockchain the word Twins and blockchain the word Twins and blockchain the word blockchain we need have a little bit of blockchain we need have a little bit of blockchain we need have a little bit of an AI tool to kind of run the metrics on an AI tool to kind of run the metrics on an AI tool to kind of run the metrics on our podast well you know um it's weird our podast well you know um it's weird our podast well you know um it's weird uh we've had we've invited some you know uh we've had we've invited some you know uh we've had we've invited some you know experts onto the show and some have experts onto the show and some have experts onto the show and some have shown up and others haven't and I think shown up and others haven't and I think shown up and others haven't and I think the ones that don't just don't want to the ones that don't just don't want to the ones that don't just don't want to get into a debate so get into a debate so get into a debate so you you you know episodes we've had very very few know episodes we've had very very few talkers surprisingly few you would think talkers surprisingly few you would think that there would be a lot more people that there would be a lot more people that there would be a lot more people just going oh my God these guys are a just going oh my God these guys are a just going oh my God these guys are a bunch of bunch of bunch of morons we don't have that many um and um morons we don't have that many um and um morons we don't have that many um and um and by the way we do have a lot of and by the way we do have a lot of and by the way we do have a lot of people who watch the show it's I mean I people who watch the show it's I mean I people who watch the show it's I mean I think there's a lot think there's a lot think there's a lot of Silent stalkers who but don't oh my of Silent stalkers who but don't oh my of Silent stalkers who but don't oh my God no when I go to conferences I mean God no when I go to conferences I mean God no when I go to conferences I mean literally entire engineering teams oh literally entire engineering teams oh literally entire engineering teams oh yeah I'm like what the like I wouldn't yeah I'm like what the like I wouldn't yeah I'm like what the like I wouldn't know and then they tell me and I'm like know and then they tell me and I'm like know and then they tell me and I'm like what people have been approaching me what people have been approaching me what people have been approaching me saying I'm a professional podcaster saying I'm a professional podcaster saying I'm a professional podcaster because I'm on the show and this is the

because I'm on the show and this is the because I'm on the show and this is the only thing that I do is this I don't only thing that I do is this I don't only thing that I do is this I don't have my have my have my own it's cracks me up yeah but um yeah own it's cracks me up yeah but um yeah own it's cracks me up yeah but um yeah you know it's just some people just you know it's just some people just you know it's just some people just don't want to get into a debate but that don't want to get into a debate but that don't want to get into a debate but that that I mean we got some solid stuff on that I mean we got some solid stuff on that I mean we got some solid stuff on uh digital twin you know we we uh beat uh digital twin you know we we uh beat uh digital twin you know we we uh beat that thing down and then you know people that thing down and then you know people that thing down and then you know people keep resurrecting it like a keep resurrecting it like a keep resurrecting it like a zombie you know talking about the same zombie you know talking about the same zombie you know talking about the same stuff that we talked about four years stuff that we talked about four years stuff that we talked about four years ago you know the wrong stuff it's like ago you know the wrong stuff it's like ago you know the wrong stuff it's like no no no here listen to this no no no here listen to this no no no here listen to this episode because you dropped you drop old episode because you dropped you drop old episode because you dropped you drop old episodes on there and I literally go episodes on there and I literally go episodes on there and I literally go back and I'm listening to and I'm like back and I'm listening to and I'm like back and I'm listening to and I'm like holy crap you know what I've been doing holy crap you know what I've been doing holy crap you know what I've been doing too is I've been grabbing like uh too is I've been grabbing like uh too is I've been grabbing like uh because Rob's real good at you know because Rob's real good at you know because Rob's real good at you know pushing it out through his own Twitter pushing it out through his own Twitter pushing it out through his own Twitter channel is one will come up and then I channel is one will come up and then I channel is one will come up and then I like like you say I'll read it but I like like you say I'll read it but I like like you say I'll read it but I think what I'm going to do is try to go think what I'm going to do is try to go think what I'm going to do is try to go through and look and find all of those through and look and find all of those through and look and find all of those digital twin ones at least have a label digital twin ones at least have a label digital twin ones at least have a label of digital twin and resurrect it and put of digital twin and resurrect it and put of digital twin and resurrect it and put a post together just like go ahead and a post together just like go ahead and a post together just like go ahead and do your homework your research we what do your homework your research we what do your homework your research we what we've been saying how many years ago is we've been saying how many years ago is we've been saying how many years ago is still resonating today same stuff yeah still resonating today same stuff yeah still resonating today same stuff yeah and a lot of it survived um you know and a lot of it survived um you know and a lot of it survived um you know during because we were we were comment during because we were we were comment during because we were we were comment we were dropping budha during the we were dropping budha during the we were dropping budha during the freaking uh digital twin hype cycle freaking uh digital twin hype cycle freaking uh digital twin hype cycle people now forget about that cuz you had people now forget about that cuz you had people now forget about that cuz you had digital twin then you had the meterse digital twin then you had the meterse digital twin then you had the meterse thing right not ji yeah and then all the thing right not ji yeah and then all the thing right not ji yeah and then all the digital twin people who found oh my God

digital twin people who found oh my God digital twin people who found oh my God there's really no Market because people there's really no Market because people there's really no Market because people don't remember people you know McKenzie don't remember people you know McKenzie don't remember people you know McKenzie and all these other guys were throwing and all these other guys were throwing and all these other guys were throwing up ridiculously huge numbers for up ridiculously huge numbers for up ridiculously huge numbers for billions twin trillions uh you know our billions twin trillions uh you know our billions twin trillions uh you know our economic impact is BR meterse whatever economic impact is BR meterse whatever economic impact is BR meterse whatever 13 14 20 30 whatever number that they 13 14 20 30 whatever number that they 13 14 20 30 whatever number that they made made made up but misrepresenting gez huh up but misrepresenting gez huh up but misrepresenting gez huh misrepresenting and I've said it all misrepresenting and I've said it all misrepresenting and I've said it all along the tool digital twins are a tool along the tool digital twins are a tool along the tool digital twins are a tool so 100% we have changed from digital so 100% we have changed from digital so 100% we have changed from digital twins we're like you know what because twins we're like you know what because twins we're like you know what because now I'm not gonna have this debate over now I'm not gonna have this debate over now I'm not gonna have this debate over yours as a digital twin this is not I'm yours as a digital twin this is not I'm yours as a digital twin this is not I'm like you know what what we create are like you know what what we create are like you know what what we create are operation dashboards because they deliver insights dashboards because they deliver insights in an operational fashion yeah right and in an operational fashion yeah right and in an operational fashion yeah right and Bill um um like the first time I ever Bill um um like the first time I ever Bill um um like the first time I ever read anything in this space was the read anything in this space was the read anything in this space was the dod kind of taking their simulation dod kind of taking their simulation dod kind of taking their simulation story to the next level like because story to the next level like because story to the next level like because they needed to have real time they needed to have real time they needed to have real time intelligence in the intelligence in the intelligence in the field to to figure out what when things field to to figure out what when things field to to figure out what when things are happening out in the field you know are happening out in the field you know are happening out in the field you know how are they going to react what how how are they going to react what how how are they going to react what how they going to automatically respond how they going to automatically respond how they going to automatically respond how are they going to dispatch how they how are they going to dispatch how they how are they going to dispatch how they how are they going to communicate and that's are they going to communicate and that's are they going to communicate and that's when I first started reading on it and when I first started reading on it and when I first started reading on it and then it kind you know broke into the then it kind you know broke into the then it kind you know broke into the Enterprise conversation gu even more the Enterprise conversation gu even more the Enterprise conversation gu even more the commercial side yeah yeah and then commercial side yeah yeah and then commercial side yeah yeah and then there's a whole privacy aspect to all

there's a whole privacy aspect to all there's a whole privacy aspect to all the stuff now as well right yeah no 100% the stuff now as well right yeah no 100% the stuff now as well right yeah no 100% so I think I think one of the First so I think I think one of the First so I think I think one of the First episodes we talked about it I said that episodes we talked about it I said that episodes we talked about it I said that you know we had been building them and you know we had been building them and you know we had been building them and everything and all of a sudden it dawned everything and all of a sudden it dawned everything and all of a sudden it dawned on me first and for foremost wait a on me first and for foremost wait a on me first and for foremost wait a minute that's a Threat Vector right minute that's a Threat Vector right minute that's a Threat Vector right there I secure that thing and then it there I secure that thing and then it there I secure that thing and then it becomes a privacy problem because of the becomes a privacy problem because of the becomes a privacy problem because of the data that we're collecting and where data that we're collecting and where data that we're collecting and where it's it's it's going yeah so I mean there was it was a going yeah so I mean there was it was a going yeah so I mean there was it was a an admission on our side where we said an admission on our side where we said an admission on our side where we said hey wait a minute number one this is not hey wait a minute number one this is not hey wait a minute number one this is not the Panacea it is a tool and we realize the Panacea it is a tool and we realize the Panacea it is a tool and we realize that it is also a threat vector and it that it is also a threat vector and it that it is also a threat vector and it could be a privacy concern so what are could be a privacy concern so what are could be a privacy concern so what are we doing we're ahead of that game we doing we're ahead of that game we doing we're ahead of that game because we have that part covered yeah because we have that part covered yeah because we have that part covered yeah and sell it you know what I'm saying I and sell it you know what I'm saying I and sell it you know what I'm saying I mean that's the thing going back to what mean that's the thing going back to what mean that's the thing going back to what I said earlier privacy security they're I said earlier privacy security they're I said earlier privacy security they're they're not just you know this lower they're not just you know this lower they're not just you know this lower layer that you stick on the side of layer that you stick on the side of layer that you stick on the side of your architectural diagram I mean it your architectural diagram I mean it your architectural diagram I mean it should be a core feature man one of the should be a core feature man one of the should be a core feature man one of the things I love about Lenova so I was at things I love about Lenova so I was at things I love about Lenova so I was at Lenovo Tech world and also the Lenovo Tech world and also the Lenovo Tech world and also the G um and they they put they put Security G um and they they put they put Security G um and they they put they put Security First for their AI you know Services First for their AI you know Services First for their AI you know Services right how many how many companies you right how many how many companies you right how many how many companies you know out there just put security as a know out there just put security as a know out there just put security as a first value proposition for the AI

first value proposition for the AI first value proposition for the AI solution or Services they put out how solution or Services they put out how solution or Services they put out how many I mean honestly and you know it many I mean honestly and you know it many I mean honestly and you know it might sound trivial and maybe they have might sound trivial and maybe they have might sound trivial and maybe they have they might have some they're just only they might have some they're just only they might have some they're just only building the capabilities but I think building the capabilities but I think building the capabilities but I think for me it's all about mindset if you for me it's all about mindset if you for me it's all about mindset if you stick that thing last or don't even put stick that thing last or don't even put stick that thing last or don't even put it on your slide you're not even it on your slide you're not even it on your slide you're not even thinking about it and you don't even thinking about it and you don't even thinking about it and you don't even think your customers think it's think your customers think it's think your customers think it's valuable right yeah and if you don't valuable right yeah and if you don't valuable right yeah and if you don't stick if you don't it's like saying um stick if you don't it's like saying um stick if you don't it's like saying um Quality you don't stick quality on on on Quality you don't stick quality on on on Quality you don't stick quality on on on your um on your deck it's not part of your um on your deck it's not part of your um on your deck it's not part of the principle of your company it's the principle of your company it's the principle of your company it's ridiculous right why would you do that ridiculous right why would you do that ridiculous right why would you do that but then you put technology people and but then you put technology people and but then you put technology people and process or some other you know process or some other you know process or some other you know gratuitous um you know Silly gratuitous um you know Silly gratuitous um you know Silly crap security can you build quality crap security can you build quality crap security can you build quality secure privacy you know things that will secure privacy you know things that will secure privacy you know things that will protect your customers when it gets protect your customers when it gets protect your customers when it gets deployed or when they use deployed or when they use deployed or when they use it freaking sounds really important it freaking sounds really important it freaking sounds really important right now you know what I'm saying why right now you know what I'm saying why right now you know what I'm saying why why do you not Embrace that because that why do you not Embrace that because that why do you not Embrace that because that go to if you go to freaking r r you know go to if you go to freaking r r you know go to if you go to freaking r r you know rsac you know which is the big security rsac you know which is the big security rsac you know which is the big security conference everyone's freaking out you conference everyone's freaking out you conference everyone's freaking out you know talking about they're like you Bill know talking about they're like you Bill know talking about they're like you Bill they know too much they see all the they know too much they see all the they know too much they see all the stuff and then you know last year they stuff and then you know last year they stuff and then you know last year they were all like you know talking oh my God

were all like you know talking oh my God were all like you know talking oh my God gener de a is Gonna Save Us this year gener de a is Gonna Save Us this year gener de a is Gonna Save Us this year they go holy crap I know too much and they go holy crap I know too much and they go holy crap I know too much and I'm afraid of this stuff and we are not I'm afraid of this stuff and we are not I'm afraid of this stuff and we are not going to sticking this in any of our going to sticking this in any of our going to sticking this in any of our customers customers customers environments we got to have the environments we got to have the environments we got to have the conversation about Ai and you got you conversation about Ai and you got you conversation about Ai and you got you have one side where everyone's saying oh have one side where everyone's saying oh have one side where everyone's saying oh we're going to use AI to secure right to we're going to use AI to secure right to we're going to use AI to secure right to identify the threats to identify risk identify the threats to identify risk identify the threats to identify risk and then the other side where the and then the other side where the and then the other side where the hackers are just like they're so excited hackers are just like they're so excited hackers are just like they're so excited they're like we're going to use AI gen they're like we're going to use AI gen they're like we're going to use AI gen gen AI we need to be specific there gen AI we need to be specific there gen AI we need to be specific there there is I mean now see now have vendors there is I mean now see now have vendors there is I mean now see now have vendors out there out there out there who are starting to get pissed off by who are starting to get pissed off by who are starting to get pissed off by this geni appropriation of AI right I this geni appropriation of AI right I this geni appropriation of AI right I get because now there's nothing nothing get because now there's nothing nothing get because now there's nothing nothing to show Roi the big question is where is to show Roi the big question is where is to show Roi the big question is where is the ROI everybody is asking that as the the ROI everybody is asking that as the the ROI everybody is asking that as the worst question to be a asking in a worst question to be a asking in a worst question to be a asking in a Telltale sign of what's Happening where Telltale sign of what's Happening where Telltale sign of what's Happening where is the ROI and then now all these guys is the ROI and then now all these guys is the ROI and then now all these guys who've been working on ML all the good who've been working on ML all the good who've been working on ML all the good stuff that I mean for years they've been stuff that I mean for years they've been stuff that I mean for years they've been make this crap I stuff and they're going make this crap I stuff and they're going make this crap I stuff and they're going to get victimized oh yeah by this gen to get victimized oh yeah by this gen to get victimized oh yeah by this gen nonsense right the same conversation we nonsense right the same conversation we nonsense right the same conversation we just have with blockchain is like just have with blockchain is like just have with blockchain is like there's going to be something that's there's going to be something that's there's going to be something that's gonna grab onto it and just taint the gonna grab onto it and just taint the gonna grab onto it and just taint the entire yeah con and and and take away entire yeah con and and and take away entire yeah con and and and take away all the good things that have been all the good things that have been all the good things that have been happening on the back end that have been happening on the back end that have been happening on the back end that have been happening way before we started calling happening way before we started calling happening way before we started calling it AI it's more you know ml side but

it AI it's more you know ml side but it AI it's more you know ml side but yeah we go again 90% of the time when yeah we go again 90% of the time when yeah we go again 90% of the time when people say AI talk about AI nowadays people say AI talk about AI nowadays people say AI talk about AI nowadays they're really talking about chat GPT they're really talking about chat GPT they're really talking about chat GPT yeah like because that's that's the yeah like because that's that's the yeah like because that's that's the majority like if you did a quick survey majority like if you did a quick survey majority like if you did a quick survey of people that are like using it on the of people that are like using it on the of people that are like using it on the day-to-day side for whatever consumer day-to-day side for whatever consumer day-to-day side for whatever consumer our business they're just going in the our business they're just going in the our business they're just going in the chat GPT they're not maybe Google they chat GPT they're not maybe Google they chat GPT they're not maybe Google they had no idea they were using AI on their had no idea they were using AI on their had no idea they were using AI on their iPhones and Android phones for like the iPhones and Android phones for like the iPhones and Android phones for like the last seven eight years they because it's last seven eight years they because it's last seven eight years they because it's part of the advertising for iPhone right part of the advertising for iPhone right part of the advertising for iPhone right so so so well no they they were talking about well no they they were talking about well no they they were talking about everybody was talking about AI at that everybody was talking about AI at that everybody was talking about AI at that time but nobody cared right it's the time but nobody cared right it's the time but nobody cared right it's the consumer facing apps that start to consumer facing apps that start to consumer facing apps that start to destroy a lot of the quality of the destroy a lot of the quality of the destroy a lot of the quality of the things that are really happening you things that are really happening you things that are really happening you know what that's one episode we should know what that's one episode we should know what that's one episode we should dig into is is the the difference dig into is is the the difference dig into is is the the difference between AI when you have machine learned between AI when you have machine learned between AI when you have machine learned models when you have all of these other models when you have all of these other models when you have all of these other things that are really Sol things that are really Sol things that are really Sol problems just to do a look a one1 right problems just to do a look a one1 right problems just to do a look a one1 right versus generative AI That's creating versus generative AI That's creating versus generative AI That's creating fake pictures and lots of nonsense fake pictures and lots of nonsense fake pictures and lots of nonsense data yeah um yeah it's a great data yeah um yeah it's a great data yeah um yeah it's a great Point um and you know that so I just got Point um and you know that so I just got Point um and you know that so I just got back from 5G America I love that was back from 5G America I love that was back from 5G America I love that was that I that I that I hat yeah you know it's always great yeah

hat yeah you know it's always great yeah hat yeah you know it's always great yeah uh unfortunately I think you know like uh unfortunately I think you know like uh unfortunately I think you know like we didn't see some of the Canadian we didn't see some of the Canadian we didn't see some of the Canadian operators Rogers wasn't there intel was operators Rogers wasn't there intel was operators Rogers wasn't there intel was not there and usually they're a huge not there and usually they're a huge not there and usually they're a huge presence um yeah and um so they were presence um yeah and um so they were presence um yeah and um so they were they were absent very they were absent very they were absent very notably and was there and they're notably and was there and they're notably and was there and they're normally not there oh they had like 11 normally not there oh they had like 11 normally not there oh they had like 11 people they were there Force so but um people they were there Force so but um people they were there Force so but um no there was a lot of great discussion no there was a lot of great discussion no there was a lot of great discussion they you can have the best discussions they you can have the best discussions they you can have the best discussions and um truth finding uh in those and um truth finding uh in those and um truth finding uh in those sessions because you know it's weird you sessions because you know it's weird you sessions because you know it's weird you bring the operators together vendors and bring the operators together vendors and bring the operators together vendors and then analyst and it's a rare opportunity then analyst and it's a rare opportunity then analyst and it's a rare opportunity where the anal get to ask really where the anal get to ask really where the anal get to ask really freaking hard questions and make freaking hard questions and make freaking hard questions and make everyone in the room nervous but they everyone in the room nervous but they everyone in the room nervous but they come the table because they're afraid come the table because they're afraid come the table because they're afraid that one of their competitors is going that one of their competitors is going that one of their competitors is going to talk about the them so they to talk about the them so they to talk about the them so they can't be there to defend themselves you can't be there to defend themselves you can't be there to defend themselves you know it's like it's it's really cool know it's like it's it's really cool know it's like it's it's really cool it's yeah I do I do enjoy the breakout it's yeah I do I do enjoy the breakout it's yeah I do I do enjoy the breakout sessions they have so you can kind of go sessions they have so you can kind of go sessions they have so you can kind of go dive into a small group with maybe like dive into a small group with maybe like dive into a small group with maybe like 18 point room and it just it's real 18 point room and it just it's real 18 point room and it just it's real hard-hitting I think it's just a high hard-hitting I think it's just a high hard-hitting I think it's just a high quality event because of that it's the quality event because of that it's the quality event because of that it's the best I love it and you know Chris Chris best I love it and you know Chris Chris best I love it and you know Chris Chris Pearson wasn't there um he's out for Pearson wasn't there um he's out for Pearson wasn't there um he's out for personal reasons and um you know anyways personal reasons and um you know anyways personal reasons and um you know anyways I hope to see you uh back up you know I hope to see you uh back up you know I hope to see you uh back up you know sin Crest because you freaking Rock sin Crest because you freaking Rock sin Crest because you freaking Rock dude um yeah I think we're up on our

dude um yeah I think we're up on our dude um yeah I think we're up on our time who wants to take us time who wants to take us time who wants to take us out about to pass out de doing with the out about to pass out de doing with the out about to pass out de doing with the onew punch oh yeah you wantan you want onew punch oh yeah you wantan you want onew punch oh yeah you wantan you want to try it or you yeah you just just do to try it or you yeah you just just do to try it or you yeah you just just do it what do I forget what just take us it what do I forget what just take us it what do I forget what just take us out take us out summarize and sign off out take us out summarize and sign off out take us out summarize and sign off oh summarize summarize um well oh God oh summarize summarize um well oh God oh summarize summarize um well oh God what can I say first of all I think I what can I say first of all I think I what can I say first of all I think I love the fact you guys are having love the fact you guys are having love the fact you guys are having conversations about what consumers want conversations about what consumers want conversations about what consumers want right and what companies need to be right and what companies need to be right and what companies need to be thinking about not just you know how thinking about not just you know how thinking about not just you know how hard it is for them to do things but hard it is for them to do things but hard it is for them to do things but doing things that actually help a doing things that actually help a doing things that actually help a consumer because that's who you get data consumer because that's who you get data consumer because that's who you get data from and that's who you get the value from and that's who you get the value from and that's who you get the value from at the end of the day so whether from at the end of the day so whether from at the end of the day so whether that your consumer is a business or a that your consumer is a business or a that your consumer is a business or a person really thinking about them can person really thinking about them can person really thinking about them can really be something that you can really be something that you can really be something that you can leverage and it shouldn't be something leverage and it shouldn't be something leverage and it shouldn't be something that's a pain in the that's a pain in the that's a pain in the ass right love it ass right love it ass right love it yeah and so remember uh to subscribe yeah and so remember uh to subscribe yeah and so remember uh to subscribe to um the to um the to um the I podcast at I podcast at I podcast at www.i cof talk.com and we do this for www.i cof talk.com and we do this for www.i cof talk.com and we do this for the children uh K through 12 in the children uh K through 12 in the children uh K through 12 in underserved and unserved communities underserved and unserved communities underserved and unserved communities they are out there and we also have a they are out there and we also have a they are out there and we also have a lot of communities in Florida in North lot of communities in Florida in North lot of communities in Florida in North Carolina that got hit by tragedy uh Carolina that got hit by tragedy uh Carolina that got hit by tragedy uh weather based tragedy that are now

weather based tragedy that are now weather based tragedy that are now looking for help and so that's what looking for help and so that's what looking for help and so that's what we're all about we tried to help the we're all about we tried to help the we're all about we tried to help the folks in lahina but I I don't know folks in lahina but I I don't know folks in lahina but I I don't know what's happening there but hey looks what's happening there but hey looks what's happening there but hey looks like uh we have a a different um like uh we have a a different um like uh we have a a different um different set of communities that we can different set of communities that we can different set of communities that we can help so help us help them Bridge the help so help us help them Bridge the help so help us help them Bridge the digital Equity divide by donating to uh digital Equity divide by donating to uh digital Equity divide by donating to uh Elevate our kids at Elevate our kids at Elevate our kids at www. Elevate our kids. www. Elevate our kids. www. Elevate our kids. org and share the love let's all support org and share the love let's all support org and share the love let's all support each other support these uh kids in each other support these uh kids in each other support these uh kids in communities that are either suffering or communities that are either suffering or communities that are either suffering or just just not giving a chance so buy a just just not giving a chance so buy a just just not giving a chance so buy a t-shirt bu a sweatshirt yeah yeah we t-shirt bu a sweatshirt yeah yeah we t-shirt bu a sweatshirt yeah yeah we have cool swag so uh yeah check us out have cool swag so uh yeah check us out have cool swag so uh yeah check us out and be part of the and be part of the and be part of the solution and we'll see you next solution and we'll see you next solution and we'll see you next weeke thank you than weeke thank you than weeke thank you than [Music] [Music] [Music] he