IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 263 - "Compound Hallucinations (When you take the blue pill)"

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. [Music] There you go. Awesome. Oh, that was There you go. Awesome. Oh, that was pretty good, man. That was awesome. pretty good, man. That was awesome. pretty good, man. That was awesome. Core. Little core. Little core. Core. Little core. Little core. Core. Little core. Little core. Everybody knows core clap core. Is that Everybody knows core clap core. Is that Everybody knows core clap core. Is that right? right? right? Oh, cool. Awesome. Awesome. Woohoo. Hey, Oh, cool. Awesome. Awesome. Woohoo. Hey, Oh, cool. Awesome. Awesome. Woohoo. Hey, welcome everyone to IoT Coffee Talk. welcome everyone to IoT Coffee Talk. welcome everyone to IoT Coffee Talk. Yes. Yes. Yes. Remember to take Rob seriously at your Remember to take Rob seriously at your Remember to take Rob seriously at your own risk and everyone else. We're just own risk and everyone else. We're just own risk and everyone else. We're just here to have fun. Yeah. Um Yeah. here to have fun. Yeah. Um Yeah. here to have fun. Yeah. Um Yeah. Remember to donate to I um remember to Remember to donate to I um remember to Remember to donate to I um remember to donate to Elevate our kids at donate to Elevate our kids at donate to Elevate our kids at www.elevate our kids.org.

Yeah. to help bridge the digital divide Yeah. to help bridge the digital divide for kids K through 12 and underserved for kids K through 12 and underserved for kids K through 12 and underserved and unserved and unserved and unserved community. So yeah. Yeah. Welcome, community. So yeah. Yeah. Welcome, community. So yeah. Yeah. Welcome, welcome, welcome. And look, driving welcome, welcome. And look, driving welcome, welcome. And look, driving while streaming. We Leonard is driving while streaming. We Leonard is driving while streaming. We Leonard is driving while streaming. Yeah. This week I'm while streaming. Yeah. This week I'm while streaming. Yeah. This week I'm driving. Look at Look at Dad in the car driving. Look at Look at Dad in the car driving. Look at Look at Dad in the car with the car seat. Car seats. I know. with the car seat. Car seats. I know. with the car seat. Car seats. I know. It's horrible. Wow. You know, you're so It's horrible. Wow. You know, you're so It's horrible. Wow. You know, you're so relatable. You're just like an average relatable. You're just like an average relatable. You're just like an average all American guy, you know, with the all American guy, you know, with the all American guy, you know, with the family, you know. family, you know. family, you know. Yeah. You got that, but you also have Yeah. You got that, but you also have Yeah. You got that, but you also have that stressed look on your face. The that stressed look on your face. The that stressed look on your face. The funny thing is Leonard doesn't even have funny thing is Leonard doesn't even have funny thing is Leonard doesn't even have kids, but he has those car seats back kids, but he has those car seats back kids, but he has those car seats back there. That's Yeah. Just so that I could there. That's Yeah. Just so that I could there. That's Yeah. Just so that I could get in HOV lane. That's right. Get some get in HOV lane. That's right. Get some get in HOV lane. That's right. Get some sympathy for the cops when you pull them sympathy for the cops when you pull them sympathy for the cops when you pull them over. That's right. Going to my kids over. That's right. Going to my kids over. That's right. Going to my kids soccer practice. Come on. I love it. I soccer practice. Come on. I love it. I soccer practice. Come on. I love it. I love it. Oh my god. What's going on? love it. Oh my god. What's going on? love it. Oh my god. What's going on? What's going on, Debbie? What's going on, Debbie? What's going on, Debbie? Hey guys, just happy to be here.

Hey guys, just happy to be here. Hey guys, just happy to be here. Try to keep things together here as the Try to keep things together here as the Try to keep things together here as the the world is kind of wacky as you can the world is kind of wacky as you can the world is kind of wacky as you can see. see. see. That's a This just in. The world is That's a This just in. The world is That's a This just in. The world is wacky. That's right. Wacky. Wacky. wacky. That's right. Wacky. Wacky. wacky. That's right. Wacky. Wacky. Crazy. Wacky. Wacky. Well, actually, I Crazy. Wacky. Wacky. Well, actually, I Crazy. Wacky. Wacky. Well, actually, I had a I don't know if you guys recaped had a I don't know if you guys recaped had a I don't know if you guys recaped this last time, but Leonard and I had a this last time, but Leonard and I had a this last time, but Leonard and I had a had a fun time in Taiwan last week. had a fun time in Taiwan last week. had a fun time in Taiwan last week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't tie fun and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't tie fun and Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't tie fun and some uh all that good stuff. So, that's some uh all that good stuff. So, that's some uh all that good stuff. So, that's awesome. How was it for you, Pete? Was awesome. How was it for you, Pete? Was awesome. How was it for you, Pete? Was that a good event? Yeah, it was a great that a good event? Yeah, it was a great that a good event? Yeah, it was a great event. We had a bunch of partners at a event. We had a bunch of partners at a event. We had a bunch of partners at a partner pavilion and uh met with a bunch partner pavilion and uh met with a bunch partner pavilion and uh met with a bunch of new partners. Actually, I went down of new partners. Actually, I went down of new partners. Actually, I went down to Cinchu. This was the most interesting to Cinchu. This was the most interesting to Cinchu. This was the most interesting part. Went down to Cinchu at the end of part. Went down to Cinchu at the end of part. Went down to Cinchu at the end of the week, Leonard, after we met. Had a the week, Leonard, after we met. Had a the week, Leonard, after we met. Had a friend of mine take me down to Cinchu friend of mine take me down to Cinchu friend of mine take me down to Cinchu where as TSMC headquarters, MediaTek where as TSMC headquarters, MediaTek where as TSMC headquarters, MediaTek headquarters. Met with MediaTek. saw the headquarters. Met with MediaTek. saw the headquarters. Met with MediaTek. saw the TSMC fabs, you know, with the cooling TSMC fabs, you know, with the cooling TSMC fabs, you know, with the cooling towers and all that. Uh, it was really towers and all that. Uh, it was really towers and all that. Uh, it was really cool. And then we went out to dinner to cool. And then we went out to dinner to cool. And then we went out to dinner to his local place and it was a it was a his local place and it was a it was a his local place and it was a it was a lamb and noodle restaurant and basically lamb and noodle restaurant and basically lamb and noodle restaurant and basically you could get either lamb and noodles or you could get either lamb and noodles or you could get either lamb and noodles or noodles and lamb. One of the two. Lot of noodles and lamb. One of the two. Lot of noodles and lamb. One of the two. Lot of options. Yeah. Lot of options. Um, so I options. Yeah. Lot of options. Um, so I options. Yeah. Lot of options. Um, so I had the noodles and lamb. And uh, but it had the noodles and lamb. And uh, but it had the noodles and lamb. And uh, but it was good. Uh, it was it was a lot of was good. Uh, it was it was a lot of was good. Uh, it was it was a lot of fun. And uh, that was Friday night and fun. And uh, that was Friday night and fun. And uh, that was Friday night and then I flew back on Saturday. But um, then I flew back on Saturday. But um, then I flew back on Saturday. But um, but yeah, it was a it was a busy week. I but yeah, it was a it was a busy week. I but yeah, it was a it was a busy week. I mean, Leonard probably you saw his super mean, Leonard probably you saw his super mean, Leonard probably you saw his super cool highquality production video on cool highquality production video on cool highquality production video on LinkedIn about Computex. Um, but I LinkedIn about Computex. Um, but I LinkedIn about Computex. Um, but I thought it was the it was the AI thought it was the it was the AI thought it was the it was the AI hardware supply chain show. Uh, where

hardware supply chain show. Uh, where hardware supply chain show. Uh, where everyone was trying to provide the everyone was trying to provide the everyone was trying to provide the cables, the handles, the racks, the cables, the handles, the racks, the cables, the handles, the racks, the cooling systems, the, you know, whatever cooling systems, the, you know, whatever cooling systems, the, you know, whatever you needed to build your data center for you needed to build your data center for you needed to build your data center for AI. Yeah, that seemed to be kind of the AI. Yeah, that seemed to be kind of the AI. Yeah, that seemed to be kind of the the zeitgeist. And there's there's edge the zeitgeist. And there's there's edge the zeitgeist. And there's there's edge AI stuff in there. and then kind of PC AI stuff in there. and then kind of PC AI stuff in there. and then kind of PC stuff, but you know, it's interesting stuff, but you know, it's interesting stuff, but you know, it's interesting how it used to be such a PC show and now how it used to be such a PC show and now how it used to be such a PC show and now it's really flipped to, you know, data it's really flipped to, you know, data it's really flipped to, you know, data center AI hardware stuff. I and the the center AI hardware stuff. I and the the center AI hardware stuff. I and the the cooling stuff was was was really cooling stuff was was was really cooling stuff was was was really interesting. Lots of fans and tubes and interesting. Lots of fans and tubes and interesting. Lots of fans and tubes and uh fans, oil immersion. Everyone had uh fans, oil immersion. Everyone had uh fans, oil immersion. Everyone had fans and there and the fans had to be fans and there and the fans had to be fans and there and the fans had to be neon colored, by the way. You couldn't neon colored, by the way. You couldn't neon colored, by the way. You couldn't just have fans. They had to have just have fans. They had to have just have fans. They had to have different LED lights that changed color different LED lights that changed color different LED lights that changed color as the things were spinning. So, it was as the things were spinning. So, it was as the things were spinning. So, it was like uh every other booth was like neon like uh every other booth was like neon like uh every other booth was like neon fans. Neon fans, baby. That's awesome. fans. Neon fans, baby. That's awesome. fans. Neon fans, baby. That's awesome. Yeah. Back when it was a PC show. I Yeah. Back when it was a PC show. I Yeah. Back when it was a PC show. I still have some memory um the early days still have some memory um the early days still have some memory um the early days of building Windows 8 and Steve Sonoski of building Windows 8 and Steve Sonoski of building Windows 8 and Steve Sonoski showing at that event showing off kind showing at that event showing off kind showing at that event showing off kind of the almost like an empty shell of the almost like an empty shell of the almost like an empty shell primitive beta of Windows 8 running on primitive beta of Windows 8 running on primitive beta of Windows 8 running on ARM because that was remember that the ARM because that was remember that the ARM because that was remember that the Windows on ARM. Yeah, that was a big Windows on ARM. Yeah, that was a big Windows on ARM. Yeah, that was a big deal. That was a big deal. Yeah. Back deal. That was a big deal. Yeah. Back deal. That was a big deal. Yeah. Back when people were still excited about when people were still excited about when people were still excited about Windows 8 coming out before they Windows 8 coming out before they Windows 8 coming out before they weren't. Then they quickly became not weren't. Then they quickly became not weren't. Then they quickly became not excited. Yes. It's like excited. Yes. It's like excited. Yes. It's like Yeah. Right after that, I think. Yeah. I

Yeah. Right after that, I think. Yeah. I Yeah. Right after that, I think. Yeah. I know that. And well, it's still a big, know that. And well, it's still a big, know that. And well, it's still a big, you know, um the big keynotes. I mean, you know, um the big keynotes. I mean, you know, um the big keynotes. I mean, Leonard, you were there for the keynotes Leonard, you were there for the keynotes Leonard, you were there for the keynotes with the um, you know, yeah, I'm still with the um, you know, yeah, I'm still with the um, you know, yeah, I'm still Jensen and Rick Sai from MediaTek and Jensen and Rick Sai from MediaTek and Jensen and Rick Sai from MediaTek and um, so it's still big big thing with uh, um, so it's still big big thing with uh, um, so it's still big big thing with uh, you know, Intel and stuff like that. So, you know, Intel and stuff like that. So, you know, Intel and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's it's a it fel felt a little yeah, it's it's a it fel felt a little yeah, it's it's a it fel felt a little more CES like CES Taiwan. Okay. I ended more CES like CES Taiwan. Okay. I ended more CES like CES Taiwan. Okay. I ended up Leonard, I ended up going to that up Leonard, I ended up going to that up Leonard, I ended up going to that electronics mall that I always go to. electronics mall that I always go to. electronics mall that I always go to. Oh, cool. How was that? Youought one of Oh, cool. How was that? Youought one of Oh, cool. How was that? Youought one of these guys. I got one of these guys. these guys. I got one of these guys. these guys. I got one of these guys. Oh, no way. Oh, awesome. Saved about 200 Oh, no way. Oh, awesome. Saved about 200 Oh, no way. Oh, awesome. Saved about 200 bucks off Amazon, by the way. You are bucks off Amazon, by the way. You are bucks off Amazon, by the way. You are you serious? Yeah. Serious. you serious? Yeah. Serious. you serious? Yeah. Serious. Non-tariff. Non-tariff. Non-tariff. Non-tariff. Non-tariff. Non-tariff. Are Are you sure? It might You might get Are Are you sure? It might You might get Are Are you sure? It might You might get a bill. That's true. a bill. That's true. a bill. That's true. Donald J. Donald J. Donald J. But no, it was I need you to send me But no, it was I need you to send me But no, it was I need you to send me Venmo me some money for that. That's Venmo me some money for that. That's Venmo me some money for that. That's right.

right. right. You know, I love I need you to eat that You know, I love I need you to eat that You know, I love I need you to eat that tariff. You need to eat the tariff. Eat tariff. You need to eat the tariff. Eat tariff. You need to eat the tariff. Eat the tariff. Be a good American and eat the tariff. Be a good American and eat the tariff. Be a good American and eat the tariff. the tariff. the tariff. You know, Rob, I love your um Trump You know, Rob, I love your um Trump You know, Rob, I love your um Trump impression. It sounds just like you. impression. It sounds just like you. impression. It sounds just like you. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But you have the hand Yeah. Yeah. Right. But you have the hand Yeah. Yeah. Right. But you have the hand gestures down, man. Yeah. You got it. gestures down, man. Yeah. You got it. gestures down, man. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Yeah. That's how we can tell that Yeah. Yeah. That's how we can tell that Yeah. Yeah. That's how we can tell that you're doing it. The essence is coming you're doing it. The essence is coming you're doing it. The essence is coming through. through. through. There's a guy there's a guy on Tik Tok There's a guy there's a guy on Tik Tok There's a guy there's a guy on Tik Tok and Instagram something Austin Russo I and Instagram something Austin Russo I and Instagram something Austin Russo I don't know and apparently he was a don't know and apparently he was a don't know and apparently he was a software engineer and then he started software engineer and then he started software engineer and then he started doing comedy stuff and he does good doing comedy stuff and he does good doing comedy stuff and he does good Trump impersonations and basically the Trump impersonations and basically the Trump impersonations and basically the takeaway is he said he's making more takeaway is he said he's making more takeaway is he said he's making more money doing this comedy thing than he money doing this comedy thing than he money doing this comedy thing than he was doing software engineering was doing software engineering was doing software engineering especially because he's probably got especially because he's probably got especially because he's probably got laid off or whatever right interesting laid off or whatever right interesting laid off or whatever right interesting there's also a gentleman in in China, there's also a gentleman in in China, there's also a gentleman in in China, uh, who does a Trump impression. China.

uh, who does a Trump impression. China. uh, who does a Trump impression. China. Yeah. And he's, you know, much better. Yeah. And he's, you know, much better. Yeah. And he's, you know, much better. It's really amazing. He kind of goes, he It's really amazing. He kind of goes, he It's really amazing. He kind of goes, he goes from his native Chinese language goes from his native Chinese language goes from his native Chinese language into this Trump impression. into this Trump impression. into this Trump impression. Oh, I've seen that guy. Just blows Oh, I've seen that guy. Just blows Oh, I've seen that guy. Just blows everyone's mind. Like, why? Oh my god, everyone's mind. Like, why? Oh my god, everyone's mind. Like, why? Oh my god, that's awesome. So talented. That's that's awesome. So talented. That's that's awesome. So talented. That's impressive. He's incredible. He's impressive. He's incredible. He's impressive. He's incredible. He's incredible. And he's a big guy, too. incredible. And he's a big guy, too. incredible. And he's a big guy, too. He's a big He's got big stature. And He's a big He's got big stature. And He's a big He's got big stature. And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he kind of looks like um little Kim, But he kind of looks like um little Kim, But he kind of looks like um little Kim, you know. Not the rapper, but the you know. Not the rapper, but the you know. Not the rapper, but the dictator. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of dictator. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of dictator. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of weird. But people don't do Kim Jong- weird. But people don't do Kim Jong- weird. But people don't do Kim Jong- impressions, you know. Rocket Man. Yeah. impressions, you know. Rocket Man. Yeah. impressions, you know. Rocket Man. Yeah. Rocket. Rocket Man. Rocket. Rocket Man. Rocket. Rocket Man. Anyhoo, but uh yeah, Taiwan was fun. As Anyhoo, but uh yeah, Taiwan was fun. As Anyhoo, but uh yeah, Taiwan was fun. As a recap, that was good. So, uh you a recap, that was good. So, uh you a recap, that was good. So, uh you mentioned Jensen. He kind of came when mentioned Jensen. He kind of came when mentioned Jensen. He kind of came when he just did their earnings, he kind of he just did their earnings, he kind of he just did their earnings, he kind of came out pretty firm about the hey, came out pretty firm about the hey, came out pretty firm about the hey, China's gonna go whether we're on board China's gonna go whether we're on board China's gonna go whether we're on board or not. And he he was a little more or not. And he he was a little more or not. And he he was a little more openly blasting Yeah. what's happening.

openly blasting Yeah. what's happening. openly blasting Yeah. what's happening. You know, that's not a lie. That's the You know, that's not a lie. That's the You know, that's not a lie. That's the truth. He goes, "Record earnings, but truth. He goes, "Record earnings, but truth. He goes, "Record earnings, but they would have been even bigger if it they would have been even bigger if it they would have been even bigger if it wasn't for cutting us off from China." wasn't for cutting us off from China." wasn't for cutting us off from China." Well, I mean, you go back 10 years now. Well, I mean, you go back 10 years now. Well, I mean, you go back 10 years now. I mean, you could argue the whole policy I mean, you could argue the whole policy I mean, you could argue the whole policy we've had for a decade of trying to sort we've had for a decade of trying to sort we've had for a decade of trying to sort of restrict technology flow into China of restrict technology flow into China of restrict technology flow into China has really enabled China, you know, to has really enabled China, you know, to has really enabled China, you know, to their credit, to develop a lot of their credit, to develop a lot of their credit, to develop a lot of technology on their own and do a lot of technology on their own and do a lot of technology on their own and do a lot of cool things. And maybe they haven't cool things. And maybe they haven't cool things. And maybe they haven't caught up, but they've made tremendous caught up, but they've made tremendous caught up, but they've made tremendous advancements now and we become advancements now and we become advancements now and we become self-sufficient without US technology. self-sufficient without US technology. self-sufficient without US technology. Yeah. And uh yeah, but people have to Yeah. And uh yeah, but people have to Yeah. And uh yeah, but people have to remember the electronics industry had remember the electronics industry had remember the electronics industry had been outsourced or at least had been been outsourced or at least had been been outsourced or at least had been seated in Asia for decades before. seated in Asia for decades before. seated in Asia for decades before. Totally big ramp, you know. I mean, I Totally big ramp, you know. I mean, I Totally big ramp, you know. I mean, I was listening to John Dailyaly um the was listening to John Dailyaly um the was listening to John Dailyaly um the John Dailyaly show and there was a a John Dailyaly show and there was a a John Dailyaly show and there was a a gentleman I forgot his name is uh he gentleman I forgot his name is uh he gentleman I forgot his name is uh he wrote a book called Apple in China. uh wrote a book called Apple in China. uh wrote a book called Apple in China. uh how that you how that you how that you know can you guys hear me? Yeah, I can know can you guys hear me? Yeah, I can know can you guys hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Yeah. And um if you get the hear you. Yeah. And um if you get the hear you. Yeah. And um if you get the timeline wrong, your point of view ends timeline wrong, your point of view ends timeline wrong, your point of view ends up being wrong. This guy had so many up being wrong. This guy had so many up being wrong. This guy had so many misconceptions and misconceptions and misconceptions and misrepresentations. And it was funny to misrepresentations. And it was funny to misrepresentations. And it was funny to watch John Dailyaly just riff off of watch John Dailyaly just riff off of watch John Dailyaly just riff off of this stuff and like rile his audience up this stuff and like rile his audience up this stuff and like rile his audience up on talking points and perspectives that

on talking points and perspectives that on talking points and perspectives that were actually wrong. You know, it was were actually wrong. You know, it was were actually wrong. You know, it was kind of like funny to watch this. And so kind of like funny to watch this. And so kind of like funny to watch this. And so this this this like so-called like so-called like so-called selfproclaimed talking about Huawei and selfproclaimed talking about Huawei and selfproclaimed talking about Huawei and how you know Apple was responsible for how you know Apple was responsible for how you know Apple was responsible for building um you know the uh you know building um you know the uh you know building um you know the uh you know tech economy for China. That's not tech economy for China. That's not tech economy for China. That's not entirely true. You know he he entirely true. You know he he entirely true. You know he he misrepresented Yeah. misrepresented Yeah. misrepresented Yeah. um Chinese uh smartphone opera, you um Chinese uh smartphone opera, you um Chinese uh smartphone opera, you know, um make phone makers. Yeah. As uh know, um make phone makers. Yeah. As uh know, um make phone makers. Yeah. As uh displacing Nokia. It's like no, that's displacing Nokia. It's like no, that's displacing Nokia. It's like no, that's not how it happened, right? And um and not how it happened, right? And um and not how it happened, right? And um and so we have to remember that this has so we have to remember that this has so we have to remember that this has been going on for a long time. It been going on for a long time. It been going on for a long time. It started off in Hong Kong, Taiwan. Yeah. started off in Hong Kong, Taiwan. Yeah. started off in Hong Kong, Taiwan. Yeah. Right. Well, remember even memory Right. Well, remember even memory Right. Well, remember even memory remember the memory wars in Japan in the remember the memory wars in Japan in the remember the memory wars in Japan in the 80s? I mean, you right. Yeah. Korea, all 80s? I mean, you right. Yeah. Korea, all 80s? I mean, you right. Yeah. Korea, all the packaging happens there. Why?

the packaging happens there. Why? the packaging happens there. Why? Because nobody gave a crap about Because nobody gave a crap about Because nobody gave a crap about packaging. That's where, you know, you packaging. That's where, you know, you packaging. That's where, you know, you you uh have cheap labor, uh cheap you uh have cheap labor, uh cheap you uh have cheap labor, uh cheap manufacturing, and that's where it made manufacturing, and that's where it made manufacturing, and that's where it made sense, right? And so um but you know sense, right? And so um but you know sense, right? And so um but you know that you know speaking of copy text man that you know speaking of copy text man that you know speaking of copy text man I mean Taiwan that event I think is a I mean Taiwan that event I think is a I mean Taiwan that event I think is a bellweather for what's happening right bellweather for what's happening right bellweather for what's happening right with quote unquote AI stuff right with quote unquote AI stuff right with quote unquote AI stuff right whether it's supercomputing all the way whether it's supercomputing all the way whether it's supercomputing all the way down to the embedded stuff um but it down to the embedded stuff um but it down to the embedded stuff um but it also uh gives you a very strong also uh gives you a very strong also uh gives you a very strong impression that everything converges on impression that everything converges on impression that everything converges on Taiwan right and Taiwan Taiwan right and Taiwan Taiwan right and Taiwan historically has had a legacy in all of historically has had a legacy in all of historically has had a legacy in all of this stuff, right? And you know, Fox Con this stuff, right? And you know, Fox Con this stuff, right? And you know, Fox Con set up factories in China, right? And so set up factories in China, right? And so set up factories in China, right? And so these guys uh on the Daily Show and that these guys uh on the Daily Show and that these guys uh on the Daily Show and that guest portrayed it as if left the guest portrayed it as if left the guest portrayed it as if left the impression, okay, that Apple impression, okay, that Apple impression, okay, that Apple manufactures this stuff in China, right?

manufactures this stuff in China, right? manufactures this stuff in China, right? No, they outsource this contract No, they outsource this contract No, they outsource this contract manufacturer, right? Right. Um, Foxcon manufacturer, right? Right. Um, Foxcon manufacturer, right? Right. Um, Foxcon builds a lot of stuff, right? Right. And builds a lot of stuff, right? Right. And builds a lot of stuff, right? Right. And so they didn't they didn't even mention so they didn't they didn't even mention so they didn't they didn't even mention Foxcon once, which I thought was like Foxcon once, which I thought was like Foxcon once, which I thought was like kind of ridiculous. Right. Right. But kind of ridiculous. Right. Right. But kind of ridiculous. Right. Right. But it's so much more complex than um how it's so much more complex than um how it's so much more complex than um how people are now relearning in an people are now relearning in an people are now relearning in an incorrect way historically what incorrect way historically what incorrect way historically what happened. Do you know what I'm saying? happened. Do you know what I'm saying? happened. Do you know what I'm saying? And that I think that's it's actually And that I think that's it's actually And that I think that's it's actually becoming a bigger problem. And think becoming a bigger problem. And think becoming a bigger problem. And think about how that impacts policy, man. about how that impacts policy, man. about how that impacts policy, man. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, you have to Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, you have to Yeah. Yeah. Totally. I mean, you have to go back 50 years to be able to tell the go back 50 years to be able to tell the go back 50 years to be able to tell the story. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's story. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's story. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a book Chip Wars, if people haven't read a book Chip Wars, if people haven't read a book Chip Wars, if people haven't read that book, Chip Wars is a good beach that book, Chip Wars is a good beach that book, Chip Wars is a good beach read this summer, but it goes back I read this summer, but it goes back I read this summer, but it goes back I don't think that's a good book either. I don't think that's a good book either. I don't think that's a good book either. I I've Yeah. I and I've heard, you know, I've Yeah. I and I've heard, you know, I've Yeah. I and I've heard, you know, we just have to be really really we just have to be really really we just have to be really really um objective in how we look at this um objective in how we look at this um objective in how we look at this stuff because as soon as you apply a stuff because as soon as you apply a stuff because as soon as you apply a bias, you're all of a sudden off center bias, you're all of a sudden off center bias, you're all of a sudden off center and then that's how you you uh lose your and then that's how you you uh lose your and then that's how you you uh lose your bearing on what good policy is. Yeah. I bearing on what good policy is. Yeah. I bearing on what good policy is. Yeah. I guess my my take on the book was I guess my my take on the book was I guess my my take on the book was I thought it was pretty factual in terms thought it was pretty factual in terms thought it was pretty factual in terms of you know where we went from Fairchild of you know where we went from Fairchild of you know where we went from Fairchild and Silicon Valley into memory wars with and Silicon Valley into memory wars with and Silicon Valley into memory wars with Japan and Korea who frankly they picked Japan and Korea who frankly they picked Japan and Korea who frankly they picked they figured out how to do better yields

they figured out how to do better yields they figured out how to do better yields than the US and that's where the than the US and that's where the than the US and that's where the manufacturing gravitated toward because manufacturing gravitated toward because manufacturing gravitated toward because they could have higher yields at lower they could have higher yields at lower they could have higher yields at lower prices for a lot of chips and I mean I prices for a lot of chips and I mean I prices for a lot of chips and I mean I just it felt like you know so I just I just it felt like you know so I just I just it felt like you know so I just I don't want to slam the book. I thought don't want to slam the book. I thought don't want to slam the book. I thought the book was pretty good. Yeah, Leonard the book was pretty good. Yeah, Leonard the book was pretty good. Yeah, Leonard slamming the book burner. slamming the book burner. slamming the book burner. Book slammer. Book slammer. Book slammer. Book slammer. Book slammer. Book slammer. You know, my favorite tech book like You know, my favorite tech book like You know, my favorite tech book like that around history from a long, long that around history from a long, long that around history from a long, long time ago did win the Pulitzer Prize is time ago did win the Pulitzer Prize is time ago did win the Pulitzer Prize is the soul of a new machine. Oh yeah. the soul of a new machine. Oh yeah. the soul of a new machine. Oh yeah. which is a classic read if you want to which is a classic read if you want to which is a classic read if you want to go back to the 70s, the time frame of go back to the 70s, the time frame of go back to the 70s, the time frame of mini computers and and deck and data mini computers and and deck and data mini computers and and deck and data general and those guys and following the general and those guys and following the general and those guys and following the team who built something it was called team who built something it was called team who built something it was called the eagle I think that was the name of the eagle I think that was the name of the eagle I think that was the name of the computer and who ever thought that the computer and who ever thought that the computer and who ever thought that step by step building the team and then step by step building the team and then step by step building the team and then team creating a new minicomp computer team creating a new minicomp computer team creating a new minicomp computer kind of the last death throws maybe they kind of the last death throws maybe they kind of the last death throws maybe they didn't know it you never know in the didn't know it you never know in the didn't know it you never know in the moment that you're at the end of the moment that you're at the end of the moment that you're at the end of the line of something that was big cuz minis line of something that was big cuz minis line of something that was big cuz minis were a big deal in the 70s obviously, were a big deal in the 70s obviously, were a big deal in the 70s obviously, right? Great book. Just by the way, I right? Great book. Just by the way, I right? Great book. Just by the way, I was going to And there's another book was going to And there's another book was going to And there's another book you should read. It's called CattyShack.

you should read. It's called CattyShack. you should read. It's called CattyShack. I love Catty Shack. I love it. I love Catty Shack. I love it. I love Catty Shack. I love it. Definitive the definitive history. Definitive the definitive history. Definitive the definitive history. Unbiased unbiased history of Catty Unbiased unbiased history of Catty Unbiased unbiased history of Catty Shack. Can you do the the dance like the Shack. Can you do the the dance like the Shack. Can you do the the dance like the little gopher? Um I thought you were little gopher? Um I thought you were little gopher? Um I thought you were going to do that. going to do that. going to do that. You know, it's funny. You know, lots of You know, it's funny. You know, lots of You know, it's funny. You know, lots of lot of people when they you know, lot of people when they you know, lot of people when they you know, obviously we're heavily influenced by obviously we're heavily influenced by obviously we're heavily influenced by yacht rock here, of course, and um you yacht rock here, of course, and um you yacht rock here, of course, and um you know, people a lot of people think of know, people a lot of people think of know, people a lot of people think of Kenny Loggins as being one of the Kenny Loggins as being one of the Kenny Loggins as being one of the primary yacht rock people, but that primary yacht rock people, but that primary yacht rock people, but that said, I'm All Right from said, I'm All Right from said, I'm All Right from CattyShack is is just as well known as CattyShack is is just as well known as CattyShack is is just as well known as any yacht rock song. And obviously, any yacht rock song. And obviously, any yacht rock song. And obviously, Kenny Loggins, it's like, you know, come Kenny Loggins, it's like, you know, come Kenny Loggins, it's like, you know, come on. It's like, no, it's the Gopher. And on. It's like, no, it's the Gopher. And on. It's like, no, it's the Gopher. And of course, his biggest song ever was of course, his biggest song ever was of course, his biggest song ever was from Top Gun, which is obviously not from Top Gun, which is obviously not from Top Gun, which is obviously not Yacht Rock. So, we're kind of Yacht Rock. So, we're kind of Yacht Rock. So, we're kind of blowing things up there. By the way, one blowing things up there. By the way, one blowing things up there. By the way, one more book pitch since we're on the book. more book pitch since we're on the book. more book pitch since we're on the book. There's one called Semi Country. Yeah. There's one called Semi Country. Yeah. There's one called Semi Country. Yeah. Just came out recently and the subtitle Just came out recently and the subtitle Just came out recently and the subtitle is Trump Storm in the Island of No is Trump Storm in the Island of No is Trump Storm in the Island of No Significance. Interesting. It's really a Significance. Interesting. It's really a Significance. Interesting. It's really a history of Taiwan and semiconductors.

history of Taiwan and semiconductors. history of Taiwan and semiconductors. Okay. And uh this guy Cliff How who I Okay. And uh this guy Cliff How who I Okay. And uh this guy Cliff How who I saw speak there's an organization called saw speak there's an organization called saw speak there's an organization called Caspa the Chinese American Semiconductor Caspa the Chinese American Semiconductor Caspa the Chinese American Semiconductor Professional Associate. He spoke there Professional Associate. He spoke there Professional Associate. He spoke there really interesting. So if you guys he really interesting. So if you guys he really interesting. So if you guys he wrote this semi-country if you guys wrote this semi-country if you guys wrote this semi-country if you guys really want to dig into Taiwan history really want to dig into Taiwan history really want to dig into Taiwan history it's a really good book I love it very it's a really good book I love it very it's a really good book I love it very interesting. So yeah lots of good get interesting. So yeah lots of good get interesting. So yeah lots of good get educated that's the get educated have educated that's the get educated have educated that's the get educated have beach reads on get yourself educated. beach reads on get yourself educated. beach reads on get yourself educated. Yeah bring all your chip books to the Yeah bring all your chip books to the Yeah bring all your chip books to the beach. I just saw I just saw like a it was a a I just saw I just saw like a it was a a rerun of Saturday Night Live from like rerun of Saturday Night Live from like rerun of Saturday Night Live from like 2000 when Bush and Gore were running 2000 when Bush and Gore were running 2000 when Bush and Gore were running and it was that they were doing the and it was that they were doing the and it was that they were doing the debate and basically they came up oh and debate and basically they came up oh and debate and basically they came up oh and we're out of time so for you can't do a we're out of time so for you can't do a we're out of time so for you can't do a final whatever talk so for the final final whatever talk so for the final final whatever talk so for the final deal just sum up in one word what your deal just sum up in one word what your deal just sum up in one word what your campaign is and of course you know Will campaign is and of course you know Will campaign is and of course you know Will Ferrell was doing Bush. He's like Ferrell was doing Bush. He's like Ferrell was doing Bush. He's like strateggery and then um and then Al Gore strateggery and then um and then Al Gore strateggery and then um and then Al Gore was like was like was like lockbox. Do you remember the whole lock lockbox. Do you remember the whole lock lockbox. Do you remember the whole lock box thing? Yes, I remember that. Okay.

box thing? Yes, I remember that. Okay. box thing? Yes, I remember that. Okay. Anyway, I just had to throw that in Anyway, I just had to throw that in Anyway, I just had to throw that in there. It's related to Oh, yeah. No, there. It's related to Oh, yeah. No, there. It's related to Oh, yeah. No, strategery is uh one of strategery is uh one of strategery is uh one of you know, you realize Rob, you're giving you know, you realize Rob, you're giving you know, you realize Rob, you're giving a history lesson now. a history lesson now. a history lesson now. lockbox. That's with everyone's 15 lockbox. That's with everyone's 15 lockbox. That's with everyone's 15 second uh you know attention span that second uh you know attention span that second uh you know attention span that that's ancient history. We're gonna take that's ancient history. We're gonna take that's ancient history. We're gonna take social security and we're going to put social security and we're going to put social security and we're going to put it into a lock box. Yeah. Yeah. There it into a lock box. Yeah. Yeah. There it into a lock box. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. There's something new newsworthy you go. There's something new newsworthy you go. There's something new newsworthy in the news I want your thoughts on. in the news I want your thoughts on. in the news I want your thoughts on. Okay. Uh which is I think you've got Okay. Uh which is I think you've got Okay. Uh which is I think you've got guys have heard this. So Johnny Ives is guys have heard this. So Johnny Ives is guys have heard this. So Johnny Ives is uh connecting with open AI and they want uh connecting with open AI and they want uh connecting with open AI and they want to create some type of device apparently to create some type of device apparently to create some type of device apparently maybe some type of necklace I don't know maybe some type of necklace I don't know maybe some type of necklace I don't know uh that they want people to wear and uh that they want people to wear and uh that they want people to wear and give all their information but I want give all their information but I want give all their information but I want your thoughts on that. your thoughts on that. your thoughts on that. Didn't that seem so well produced the Didn't that seem so well produced the Didn't that seem so well produced the video that they made you know where the video that they made you know where the video that they made you know where the two of them are like sitting at a bar. I two of them are like sitting at a bar. I two of them are like sitting at a bar. I mean here are my thoughts. I don't who mean here are my thoughts. I don't who mean here are my thoughts. I don't who knows what they're actually going to knows what they're actually going to knows what they're actually going to make. You're right. I've seen the fake make. You're right. I've seen the fake make. You're right. I've seen the fake the necklace bop around the internet the necklace bop around the internet the necklace bop around the internet thing. Um, you know, if you're really thing. Um, you know, if you're really thing. Um, you know, if you're really jaded, you could go cuz you go, okay, jaded, you could go cuz you go, okay, jaded, you could go cuz you go, okay, whatever. It's $6 something billion whatever. It's $6 something billion whatever. It's $6 something billion dollars to buy basically there's no dollars to buy basically there's no dollars to buy basically there's no product right now is maybe you're buying product right now is maybe you're buying product right now is maybe you're buying people. I guess it's like aqua hire.

people. I guess it's like aqua hire. people. I guess it's like aqua hire. Remember that term from a long time ago. Remember that term from a long time ago. Remember that term from a long time ago. And so it's like you get Johnny and what And so it's like you get Johnny and what And so it's like you get Johnny and what is it 50 people? Uh, and and you start is it 50 people? Uh, and and you start is it 50 people? Uh, and and you start to wonder. It's like and of course now to wonder. It's like and of course now to wonder. It's like and of course now that being said it's all stock, you that being said it's all stock, you that being said it's all stock, you know. Um but it it it just seems weird know. Um but it it it just seems weird know. Um but it it it just seems weird to me. It's a whole lot of money just to me. It's a whole lot of money just to me. It's a whole lot of money just for like 50 people for like 50 people for like 50 people um to build something nebulous. Um I um to build something nebulous. Um I um to build something nebulous. Um I don't know. I think it's totally absurd don't know. I think it's totally absurd don't know. I think it's totally absurd and I think it's like we've reached peak and I think it's like we've reached peak and I think it's like we've reached peak peak uh silliness right now. And I wish peak uh silliness right now. And I wish peak uh silliness right now. And I wish whoever is Johnny IV, whoever negotiated whoever is Johnny IV, whoever negotiated whoever is Johnny IV, whoever negotiated that for Johnny IV, I would like to hire that for Johnny IV, I would like to hire that for Johnny IV, I would like to hire that person. Yes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I that person. Yes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I that person. Yes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I want that out. But it is going to be I want that out. But it is going to be I want that out. But it is going to be I mean, you know, he's got like a a he's mean, you know, he's got like a a he's mean, you know, he's got like a a he's got a garage full of humane pins in in got a garage full of humane pins in in got a garage full of humane pins in in bins, new inbox, you know. Yeah. You bins, new inbox, you know. Yeah. You bins, new inbox, you know. Yeah. You know, people need to remember people know, people need to remember people know, people need to remember people need to remember that. And that that was need to remember that. And that that was need to remember that. And that that was a that was actually a really bad idea. a that was actually a really bad idea. a that was actually a really bad idea. Um really poorly executed bad idea. I Um really poorly executed bad idea. I Um really poorly executed bad idea. I mean, it was a double whammy on that mean, it was a double whammy on that mean, it was a double whammy on that one. I agree. So I mean Yeah. Um and so one. I agree. So I mean Yeah. Um and so one. I agree. So I mean Yeah. Um and so was the rabbit, remember? So, we need to was the rabbit, remember? So, we need to was the rabbit, remember? So, we need to jog everyone's memory how everyone jog everyone's memory how everyone jog everyone's memory how everyone thought the rabbit was going to be thought the rabbit was going to be thought the rabbit was going to be revolutionary because of its price point revolutionary because of its price point revolutionary because of its price point and blah blah blah. An extra device that and blah blah blah. An extra device that and blah blah blah. An extra device that you talked into versus your phone which you talked into versus your phone which you talked into versus your phone which you Yeah.

you Yeah. you Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if uh you know if that's Yeah. I wonder if uh you know if that's Yeah. I wonder if uh you know if that's way of Sam Alman to maybe get some kind way of Sam Alman to maybe get some kind way of Sam Alman to maybe get some kind of kickback or something. I don't know. of kickback or something. I don't know. of kickback or something. I don't know. It it did seem kind of weird to me. Um It it did seem kind of weird to me. Um It it did seem kind of weird to me. Um yeah, maybe he had to spend some money yeah, maybe he had to spend some money yeah, maybe he had to spend some money and he had to show that he was doing and he had to show that he was doing and he had to show that he was doing something and spend some money and so something and spend some money and so something and spend some money and so something. I made the iPhone. I made something. I made the iPhone. I made something. I made the iPhone. I made Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think you know Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think you know Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think you know to the reason why this these discussions to the reason why this these discussions to the reason why this these discussions are very important is people are are very important is people are are very important is people are forgetting about how really important forgetting about how really important forgetting about how really important IoT is in the future in terms of how IoT is in the future in terms of how IoT is in the future in terms of how people want to use it. So, people want to use it. So, people want to use it. So, uh, Altman knows that the companies that uh, Altman knows that the companies that uh, Altman knows that the companies that have most of the power in data have have most of the power in data have have most of the power in data have devices of some sort, right? And so, he devices of some sort, right? And so, he devices of some sort, right? And so, he doesn't he can't make a phone, right? doesn't he can't make a phone, right? doesn't he can't make a phone, right? Doesn't want to go there. Uh, not going Doesn't want to go there. Uh, not going Doesn't want to go there. Uh, not going to go into like uh, you know, virtual to go into like uh, you know, virtual to go into like uh, you know, virtual reality or anything like meta. And you reality or anything like meta. And you reality or anything like meta. And you know, that he has this Worldcoin, you know, that he has this Worldcoin, you know, that he has this Worldcoin, you know, eyeball orb thing going trying to know, eyeball orb thing going trying to know, eyeball orb thing going trying to get that going in different countries.

get that going in different countries. get that going in different countries. So, I think this is just a way for them So, I think this is just a way for them So, I think this is just a way for them to try to get like a hardware play there to try to get like a hardware play there to try to get like a hardware play there that also ties in their, you know, data that also ties in their, you know, data that also ties in their, you know, data collection aspirations. collection aspirations. collection aspirations. Yeah, maybe. You know what it made me Yeah, maybe. You know what it made me Yeah, maybe. You know what it made me think of when I saw the picture of the think of when I saw the picture of the think of when I saw the picture of the necklace kind of floating around? Did necklace kind of floating around? Did necklace kind of floating around? Did you ever read a book by Here's a beach you ever read a book by Here's a beach you ever read a book by Here's a beach read by Dave Edgars called The Circle. read by Dave Edgars called The Circle. read by Dave Edgars called The Circle. Um, a really bad movie was made based on Um, a really bad movie was made based on Um, a really bad movie was made based on the book. I about that. I didn't. Yeah, the book. I about that. I didn't. Yeah, the book. I about that. I didn't. Yeah, Tom Hanks was in that movie. I just The Tom Hanks was in that movie. I just The Tom Hanks was in that movie. I just The the book is one of the best books I've the book is one of the best books I've the book is one of the best books I've ever read. The movie was kind of like h ever read. The movie was kind of like h ever read. The movie was kind of like h But you're right, it was Tom Hanks. But But you're right, it was Tom Hanks. But But you're right, it was Tom Hanks. But The Circle was all about, you know, it The Circle was all about, you know, it The Circle was all about, you know, it was kind of this high-flying Silicon was kind of this high-flying Silicon was kind of this high-flying Silicon Valley thing, all young people, and Valley thing, all young people, and Valley thing, all young people, and they're kind of living near where they they're kind of living near where they they're kind of living near where they work and in these dormitories, not to be work and in these dormitories, not to be work and in these dormitories, not to be confused with Foxcon with Nets. And but confused with Foxcon with Nets. And but confused with Foxcon with Nets. And but the thing is they all were wearing the thing is they all were wearing the thing is they all were wearing something around their neck that was something around their neck that was something around their neck that was constantly videoing and everything 24/7. constantly videoing and everything 24/7. constantly videoing and everything 24/7. And there was this notion it's And there was this notion it's And there was this notion it's like it's it's a bad thing if you're not like it's it's a bad thing if you're not like it's it's a bad thing if you're not sharing your life with everyone else and sharing your life with everyone else and sharing your life with everyone else and whatever experiences you're having. And whatever experiences you're having. And whatever experiences you're having. And anyway, it obviously it got really anyway, it obviously it got really anyway, it obviously it got really creepy and dystopian and everything like creepy and dystopian and everything like creepy and dystopian and everything like that, but the the book was amazing. But that, but the the book was amazing. But that, but the the book was amazing. But it made me that that that necklace, that it made me that that that necklace, that it made me that that that necklace, that pendant, that whatever made me think of pendant, that whatever made me think of pendant, that whatever made me think of the circle. Yeah. I feel like a lot of the circle. Yeah. I feel like a lot of the circle. Yeah. I feel like a lot of the cautionary tales that we see in some the cautionary tales that we see in some the cautionary tales that we see in some of these sci-fi or like uh you know, of these sci-fi or like uh you know, of these sci-fi or like uh you know, futuristic things, people are trying to

futuristic things, people are trying to futuristic things, people are trying to turn those into cookbooks now, right? turn those into cookbooks now, right? turn those into cookbooks now, right? So, I think we thought that that was a So, I think we thought that that was a So, I think we thought that that was a bad idea, but apparently people bad idea, but apparently people bad idea, but apparently people investors think differently somehow. investors think differently somehow. investors think differently somehow. Debbie, you have nailed it. Every Debbie, you have nailed it. Every Debbie, you have nailed it. Every dystopian thing we've ever thought of, dystopian thing we've ever thought of, dystopian thing we've ever thought of, made movies about, or writing books made movies about, or writing books made movies about, or writing books about, are now recipes and cookbooks for about, are now recipes and cookbooks for about, are now recipes and cookbooks for what investors really want the future to what investors really want the future to what investors really want the future to be. Yeah, that's right. I would say if be. Yeah, that's right. I would say if be. Yeah, that's right. I would say if Sam Alman wants to spend some money, the Sam Alman wants to spend some money, the Sam Alman wants to spend some money, the Edgei Foundation is a great place to Edgei Foundation is a great place to Edgei Foundation is a great place to park some park a billion. Park a park some park a billion. Park a park some park a billion. Park a billion. You know, we'll do some good billion. You know, we'll do some good billion. You know, we'll do some good with it. Just park it. Just park it. with it. Just park it. Just park it. with it. Just park it. Just park it. Yeah. Get a good return on your Yeah. Get a good return on your Yeah. Get a good return on your investment. Exactly. I'm down with that. investment. Exactly. I'm down with that. investment. Exactly. I'm down with that. I'm down with that. Yeah. I think I'm down with that. Yeah. I think I'm down with that. Yeah. I think brought Johnny I to try to design brought Johnny I to try to design brought Johnny I to try to design something that people would want to something that people would want to something that people would want to wear. But yeah, but I don't know. To me, wear. But yeah, but I don't know. To me, wear. But yeah, but I don't know. To me, it's like it's like a AI medic alert it's like it's like a AI medic alert it's like it's like a AI medic alert necklace. No, necklace. No, necklace. No, life alert. Yeah, life alert. Yeah, life alert. Yeah, I've fallen and I can't get up. Oh, I I've fallen and I can't get up. Oh, I I've fallen and I can't get up. Oh, I can't get up. I spent 6.8 billion and I can't get up. I spent 6.8 billion and I can't get up. I spent 6.8 billion and I can't get up. I think that's Yeah, even can't get up. I think that's Yeah, even can't get up. I think that's Yeah, even those folks decided that the necklace those folks decided that the necklace those folks decided that the necklace wasn't cool enough. So, it's like a wasn't cool enough. So, it's like a wasn't cool enough. So, it's like a bracelet now, right? over a big necklace bracelet now, right? over a big necklace bracelet now, right? over a big necklace around their neck. But, you know, going around their neck. But, you know, going around their neck. But, you know, going back to some of the stuff Debbie, you back to some of the stuff Debbie, you back to some of the stuff Debbie, you and I talked about years ago, there's and I talked about years ago, there's and I talked about years ago, there's going to be value in being able to going to be value in being able to going to be value in being able to disconnect and just become invisible, disconnect and just become invisible, disconnect and just become invisible, right? Totally. And to whatever degree a right? Totally. And to whatever degree a right? Totally. And to whatever degree a brand and company is able to provide brand and company is able to provide brand and company is able to provide that what will become a luxury, I think

that what will become a luxury, I think that what will become a luxury, I think is going to is going to is going to be it. it's going be it. it's going be it. it's going to have its own uh day because I mean to have its own uh day because I mean to have its own uh day because I mean honestly the stuff gets tiring. You have honestly the stuff gets tiring. You have honestly the stuff gets tiring. You have to disconnect. You know for me getting to disconnect. You know for me getting to disconnect. You know for me getting off of Facebook and that kind of social off of Facebook and that kind of social off of Facebook and that kind of social media was such a therapeutic relief media was such a therapeutic relief media was such a therapeutic relief because I was wasting so much time on because I was wasting so much time on because I was wasting so much time on that crap. It was unbelievable. Uh and that crap. It was unbelievable. Uh and that crap. It was unbelievable. Uh and as soon as I detached, I got my life as soon as I detached, I got my life as soon as I detached, I got my life back. You know what? I don't want back. You know what? I don't want back. You know what? I don't want anything to do with any of these social anything to do with any of these social anything to do with any of these social program platforms. So that's why I'm not program platforms. So that's why I'm not program platforms. So that's why I'm not even on uh I'm not on Instagram. I'm not even on uh I'm not on Instagram. I'm not even on uh I'm not on Instagram. I'm not on uh I try to avoid WhatsApp or WeChat on uh I try to avoid WhatsApp or WeChat on uh I try to avoid WhatsApp or WeChat or any of these things or freaking Tik or any of these things or freaking Tik or any of these things or freaking Tik Tok. You know what I'm saying? But like Tok. You know what I'm saying? But like Tok. You know what I'm saying? But like the like the White Lotus, you had to put the like the White Lotus, you had to put the like the White Lotus, you had to put your phones in the bag. your phones in the bag. your phones in the bag. What What was that? The the last season What What was that? The the last season What What was that? The the last season of the White Lotus. Of course, that of the White Lotus. Of course, that of the White Lotus. Of course, that didn't help them. I mean, they still got didn't help them. I mean, they still got didn't help them. I mean, they still got in lots of trouble even with their in lots of trouble even with their in lots of trouble even with their phones in the bag. Yeah, they found a phones in the bag. Yeah, they found a phones in the bag. Yeah, they found a way. It's because they became way. It's because they became way. It's because they became dysfunctional. Maybe that's it. Yeah, dysfunctional. Maybe that's it. Yeah, dysfunctional. Maybe that's it. Yeah, they they got all riled up. They were so they they got all riled up. They were so they they got all riled up. They were so Yeah. I mean, the reality became the Yeah. I mean, the reality became the Yeah. I mean, the reality became the fake thing. They're your truth fake thing. They're your truth fake thing. They're your truth eventually becomes the the channel that eventually becomes the the channel that eventually becomes the the channel that you engage quote unquote your perceived you engage quote unquote your perceived you engage quote unquote your perceived reality with. It goes back to like the reality with. It goes back to like the reality with. It goes back to like the freaking Matrix stuff. It's crazy. It

freaking Matrix stuff. It's crazy. It freaking Matrix stuff. It's crazy. It is. is. is. 1.0. It's gonna be the answer. 1.0. It's gonna be the answer. 1.0. It's gonna be the answer. We're gonna have big tin foil hats will We're gonna have big tin foil hats will We're gonna have big tin foil hats will wear. That'll be that'll Johnny Johnny I wear. That'll be that'll Johnny Johnny I wear. That'll be that'll Johnny Johnny I will design this cool tin foil hat that will design this cool tin foil hat that will design this cool tin foil hat that you wear on your Yeah, I think that's you wear on your Yeah, I think that's you wear on your Yeah, I think that's perfect. Blocks all the signals. I think perfect. Blocks all the signals. I think perfect. Blocks all the signals. I think I love the irony of that. So I I I am a I love the irony of that. So I I I am a I love the irony of that. So I I I am a very hat type of person, but I'm not very hat type of person, but I'm not very hat type of person, but I'm not sure I would wear that hat. But yeah, sure I would wear that hat. But yeah, sure I would wear that hat. But yeah, different different designs and stuff. different different designs and stuff. different different designs and stuff. You know what? We should we should start You know what? We should we should start You know what? We should we should start a company called Blue Pill. a company called Blue Pill. a company called Blue Pill. That is not a bad idea. There is already That is not a bad idea. There is already That is not a bad idea. There is already a little actually technically it should a little actually technically it should a little actually technically it should be Red Pill, but be Red Pill, but be Red Pill, but that's right. You get flushed out into that's right. You get flushed out into that's right. You get flushed out into the real world and make it to Zion, the real world and make it to Zion, the real world and make it to Zion, right? You know. Yeah. Exactly. Eat right? You know. Yeah. Exactly. Eat right? You know. Yeah. Exactly. Eat porridge and wear clothes that are dirty porridge and wear clothes that are dirty porridge and wear clothes that are dirty and have holes in it. Yep. and have holes in it. Yep. and have holes in it. Yep. I say I choose the Matrix. I say I choose the Matrix. I say I choose the Matrix. I don't care. I This steak tastes so I don't care. I This steak tastes so I don't care. I This steak tastes so good right now. Just plug me back into good right now. Just plug me back into good right now. Just plug me back into the Matrix.

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean, you know, the the But yeah, I mean, you know, the the But yeah, I mean, you know, the the ironic thing is just surveillance ironic thing is just surveillance ironic thing is just surveillance capitalism capitalism capitalism is, you is, you is, you know, it's it's leading. I mean, know, it's it's leading. I mean, know, it's it's leading. I mean, surveillance capitalism surveillance. surveillance capitalism surveillance. surveillance capitalism surveillance. That mean That mean That mean monetizing surveillance. Yes. monetizing surveillance. Yes. monetizing surveillance. Yes. Monetizing. Monetizing. Monetizing. Is that the new kind of surveillance to Is that the new kind of surveillance to Is that the new kind of surveillance to to come after the Chinese surveillance to come after the Chinese surveillance to come after the Chinese surveillance communism police state? I mean, if you communism police state? I mean, if you communism police state? I mean, if you could uh Yeah, exact. There's a lot of a lot of countries There's a lot of a lot of countries around the world where there's so many around the world where there's so many around the world where there's so many cameras. You wouldn't believe it. So cameras. You wouldn't believe it. So cameras. You wouldn't believe it. So many cameras. Yeah. I mean, I've done many cameras. Yeah. I mean, I've done many cameras. Yeah. I mean, I've done some, you know, consulting for companies some, you know, consulting for companies some, you know, consulting for companies and stuff and they and countries and and stuff and they and countries and and stuff and they and countries and they they're like, "Yeah, we have, I they they're like, "Yeah, we have, I they they're like, "Yeah, we have, I mean, thousands and thousands of cameras mean, thousands and thousands of cameras mean, thousands and thousands of cameras and like, you know, so all this data is and like, you know, so all this data is and like, you know, so all this data is is being collected." And you're right, is being collected." And you're right, is being collected." And you're right, Leonard, it's a surveillance economy, Leonard, it's a surveillance economy, Leonard, it's a surveillance economy, whether you're surveilling people's whether you're surveilling people's whether you're surveilling people's actions on a phone or their physical actions on a phone or their physical actions on a phone or their physical actions in space, their credit card actions in space, their credit card actions in space, their credit card transactions, you know, the idea of transactions, you know, the idea of transactions, you know, the idea of like, how do I take all this data and like, how do I take all this data and like, how do I take all this data and then monetize that surveillance? Um, then monetize that surveillance? Um, then monetize that surveillance? Um, right. and all that trying to pull it right. and all that trying to pull it right. and all that trying to pull it all together, right? Yeah. Yeah. And all together, right? Yeah. Yeah. And all together, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, people are connecting it's, you know, people are connecting it's, you know, people are connecting the dots unfortunately and uh, you know, the dots unfortunately and uh, you know, the dots unfortunately and uh, you know, I talk to folks that are like, well, I I talk to folks that are like, well, I I talk to folks that are like, well, I don't want to do this because I don't don't want to do this because I don't don't want to do this because I don't want people to know what I'm doing, want people to know what I'm doing, want people to know what I'm doing, whatever. I'm like, they already know whatever. I'm like, they already know whatever. I'm like, they already know what you're doing. So, it's like, unless what you're doing. So, it's like, unless what you're doing. So, it's like, unless unless you do what Tom Cruz did in unless you do what Tom Cruz did in unless you do what Tom Cruz did in Minority Report and you replace your

Minority Report and you replace your Minority Report and you replace your eyeballs. eyeballs. eyeballs. That's true. Maybe that's the new Johnny That's true. Maybe that's the new Johnny That's true. Maybe that's the new Johnny I thing. Replacement eyeballs and then I thing. Replacement eyeballs and then I thing. Replacement eyeballs and then and then get a shot where your face kind and then get a shot where your face kind and then get a shot where your face kind of goes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. of goes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. of goes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like the uh what is the uh I Well, it's like the uh what is the uh I Well, it's like the uh what is the uh I did the passport, the the entry when you did the passport, the the entry when you did the passport, the the entry when you come back into the US, they do the come back into the US, they do the come back into the US, they do the facial scan and Yeah. You know, you facial scan and Yeah. You know, you facial scan and Yeah. You know, you either get a green check and they walk either get a green check and they walk either get a green check and they walk you through or you get a blue check. you through or you get a blue check. you through or you get a blue check. They don't give you a red check. That They don't give you a red check. That They don't give you a red check. That would be too harsh. But you get a blue would be too harsh. But you get a blue would be too harsh. But you get a blue check. That means go over to this line check. That means go over to this line check. That means go over to this line here. We want Hey, speaking of which, here. We want Hey, speaking of which, here. We want Hey, speaking of which, Pete, we made it. We made it through. We Pete, we made it. We made it through. We Pete, we made it. We made it through. We did. We made it through back. No one did. We made it through back. No one did. We made it through back. No one checked my phone. No one confiscated my checked my phone. No one confiscated my checked my phone. No one confiscated my my DJI camera. Yeah. Wow. Actually, you my DJI camera. Yeah. Wow. Actually, you my DJI camera. Yeah. Wow. Actually, you know, that was that was like one of the know, that was that was like one of the know, that was that was like one of the big uh topics in Taiwan is a lot of pe big uh topics in Taiwan is a lot of pe big uh topics in Taiwan is a lot of pe people talking about that. Yeah. It's um people talking about that. Yeah. It's um people talking about that. Yeah. It's um you know, well, I had a we had a a you know, well, I had a we had a a you know, well, I had a we had a a partner of ours in our pavilion who is a partner of ours in our pavilion who is a partner of ours in our pavilion who is a recent HBS graduate recent HBS graduate recent HBS graduate uh and it was still on that visa and uh uh and it was still on that visa and uh uh and it was still on that visa and uh and he was like, I think I need to stay and he was like, I think I need to stay and he was like, I think I need to stay here in Taiwan for a while. I don't know here in Taiwan for a while. I don't know here in Taiwan for a while. I don't know if I can come back. Because that was if I can come back. Because that was if I can come back. Because that was right when they were revoking like right when they were revoking like right when they were revoking like international visas for Harvard international visas for Harvard international visas for Harvard students. And so he was like, I think I students. And so he was like, I think I students. And so he was like, I think I need to stay in the hotel for another need to stay in the hotel for another need to stay in the hotel for another week or whatever. But yeah, um but yeah, week or whatever. But yeah, um but yeah, week or whatever. But yeah, um but yeah, it was like it's real. It's real. And it was like it's real. It's real. And it was like it's real. It's real. And and I have a we have this event in and I have a we have this event in and I have a we have this event in Milan, by the way, PSA, July 2nd through Milan, by the way, PSA, July 2nd through Milan, by the way, PSA, July 2nd through the 4th, Edji Foundation event in Milan, the 4th, Edji Foundation event in Milan, the 4th, Edji Foundation event in Milan, Italy. I've had at least one speaker Italy. I've had at least one speaker Italy. I've had at least one speaker say, you know, I've been told not to say, you know, I've been told not to say, you know, I've been told not to leave the country, so I cannot come and leave the country, so I cannot come and leave the country, so I cannot come and speak. Um because I I don't know if I speak. Um because I I don't know if I speak. Um because I I don't know if I can get back into the US if I go to

can get back into the US if I go to can get back into the US if I go to Italy. So um it's real. It's real. It's Italy. So um it's real. It's real. It's Italy. So um it's real. It's real. It's real. And whenever we say something real. And whenever we say something real. And whenever we say something real, my favorite quote always from Bad real, my favorite quote always from Bad real, my favorite quote always from Bad Boys 2. There you go. Boys 2. There you go. Boys 2. There you go. [ __ ] just got real. [ __ ] just got real. [ __ ] just got real. That's that's what it's all about. That That's that's what it's all about. That That's that's what it's all about. That scene that scene Martin Loris and scene that scene Martin Loris and scene that scene Martin Loris and they're kind of doing the pano they're kind of doing the pano they're kind of doing the pano 360 just got I have a question for 360 just got I have a question for 360 just got I have a question for Debbie. Debbie, you know, Debbie. Debbie, you know, Debbie. Debbie, you know, um what what's your feel for the you um what what's your feel for the you um what what's your feel for the you know, the sentiment around privacy and know, the sentiment around privacy and know, the sentiment around privacy and um and I don't know if you want to call um and I don't know if you want to call um and I don't know if you want to call it security, but let's just stick with it security, but let's just stick with it security, but let's just stick with privacy for a moment because a lot of privacy for a moment because a lot of privacy for a moment because a lot of the work that you've been doing is the work that you've been doing is the work that you've been doing is really um helping to set a better really um helping to set a better really um helping to set a better mindset, some standards or and you know mindset, some standards or and you know mindset, some standards or and you know uh frameworks for uh promoting uh uh frameworks for uh promoting uh uh frameworks for uh promoting uh privacy in you know in IoT and other privacy in you know in IoT and other privacy in you know in IoT and other areas. Do you see the sentiment areas. Do you see the sentiment areas. Do you see the sentiment changing? I think so. I mean I think changing? I think so. I mean I think changing? I think so. I mean I think there's been such an aggressive push there's been such an aggressive push there's been such an aggressive push into even more and more surveillance, into even more and more surveillance, into even more and more surveillance, right? That people are like, I don't right? That people are like, I don't right? That people are like, I don't want that. Like so how do I get less of want that. Like so how do I get less of want that. Like so how do I get less of that? How do I give give less? How do I that? How do I give give less? How do I that? How do I give give less? How do I do what I want and not have to do all do what I want and not have to do all do what I want and not have to do all this other crap? like you know like for this other crap? like you know like for this other crap? like you know like for example cars you know that's one of the

example cars you know that's one of the example cars you know that's one of the things I talked a lot about in my IoT things I talked a lot about in my IoT things I talked a lot about in my IoT work with the department of commerce and work with the department of commerce and work with the department of commerce and you know stuff like your you know the you know stuff like your you know the you know stuff like your you know the mirror in your car has a camera in it mirror in your car has a camera in it mirror in your car has a camera in it that because it's connect to the that because it's connect to the that because it's connect to the internet that people can look and see internet that people can look and see internet that people can look and see what you're doing or what's happening what you're doing or what's happening what you're doing or what's happening around your car. Most people don't know around your car. Most people don't know around your car. Most people don't know that and they don't like that once they that and they don't like that once they that and they don't like that once they find out, you know. So, the fact that find out, you know. So, the fact that find out, you know. So, the fact that they're the things that they want to do they're the things that they want to do they're the things that they want to do is being imbued with so much kind of is being imbued with so much kind of is being imbued with so much kind of data collection and surveillance. People data collection and surveillance. People data collection and surveillance. People don't like that, right? And so, the the don't like that, right? And so, the the don't like that, right? And so, the the problem that companies have is that problem that companies have is that problem that companies have is that they're supposed to be transparent about they're supposed to be transparent about they're supposed to be transparent about that and they're not and people get that and they're not and people get that and they're not and people get super pissed off about it. And so, oh my super pissed off about it. And so, oh my super pissed off about it. And so, oh my god. Next thing you know, people will be god. Next thing you know, people will be god. Next thing you know, people will be putting cameras in their cars, right, putting cameras in their cars, right, putting cameras in their cars, right, Leonard? Yeah. Yeah. Here. And I got Leonard? Yeah. Yeah. Here. And I got Leonard? Yeah. Yeah. Here. And I got more staring at me. Debbie, it'll it'll more staring at me. Debbie, it'll it'll more staring at me. Debbie, it'll it'll bug me if I'm not paying attention to my bug me if I'm not paying attention to my bug me if I'm not paying attention to my driving. So, Debbie, are you saying that driving. So, Debbie, are you saying that driving. So, Debbie, are you saying that secretly all or some or many cars on the secretly all or some or many cars on the secretly all or some or many cars on the road today secretly have a camera in the road today secretly have a camera in the road today secretly have a camera in the rearview mirror?

rearview mirror? rearview mirror? Yes. And inside the car also don't know Yes. And inside the car also don't know Yes. And inside the car also don't know about. I'm going to take apart my about. I'm going to take apart my about. I'm going to take apart my rearview mirror now and and find out rearview mirror now and and find out rearview mirror now and and find out from your 73 Gremlin. Is that download from your 73 Gremlin. Is that download from your 73 Gremlin. Is that download if you have if your car has a app, if you have if your car has a app, if you have if your car has a app, download it and see all the stuff that download it and see all the stuff that download it and see all the stuff that you can do. I don't think your 73 you can do. I don't think your 73 you can do. I don't think your 73 Gremlin has that featur. Okay. Thank God Gremlin has that featur. Okay. Thank God Gremlin has that featur. Okay. Thank God for that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right. We for that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right. We for that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right. We say this on the show all the time say this on the show all the time say this on the show all the time because we are kind of a prepper show because we are kind of a prepper show because we are kind of a prepper show for the AI apocalypse. And so we do say for the AI apocalypse. And so we do say for the AI apocalypse. And so we do say make sure you have at least one vehicle make sure you have at least one vehicle make sure you have at least one vehicle in your household from the previous in your household from the previous in your household from the previous century that is fully mechanical. That's century that is fully mechanical. That's century that is fully mechanical. That's right. Completely. It will come in right. Completely. It will come in right. Completely. It will come in handy. handy. handy. I love to see people at those old those I love to see people at those old those I love to see people at those old those classic car shows and just I mean first classic car shows and just I mean first classic car shows and just I mean first of all the cars are really beautiful but of all the cars are really beautiful but of all the cars are really beautiful but I'm thinking wow kind of like off the I'm thinking wow kind of like off the I'm thinking wow kind of like off the grid sort of so it's great analog man grid sort of so it's great analog man grid sort of so it's great analog man it's all analog off the grid car I do it's all analog off the grid car I do it's all analog off the grid car I do have a a related tech topic and one of have a a related tech topic and one of have a a related tech topic and one of the things I saw in Taiwan and actually the things I saw in Taiwan and actually the things I saw in Taiwan and actually I see this from folks in the edge AI I see this from folks in the edge AI I see this from folks in the edge AI community too is there's a lot more community too is there's a lot more community too is there's a lot more surveillance or I would say surveillance surveillance or I would say surveillance surveillance or I would say surveillance but there's a lot more sensing going on but there's a lot more sensing going on but there's a lot more sensing going on without cameras.

without cameras. without cameras. So rather than using a camera and a So rather than using a camera and a So rather than using a camera and a visual sensor, you know, you're using visual sensor, you know, you're using visual sensor, you know, you're using audio, you're using AI against audio audio, you're using AI against audio audio, you're using AI against audio patterns, you're using uh Bluetooth and patterns, you're using uh Bluetooth and patterns, you're using uh Bluetooth and Wi-Fi radio signals to detect occupancy. Wi-Fi radio signals to detect occupancy. Wi-Fi radio signals to detect occupancy. Yeah. Or like the RFID, you know, those, Yeah. Or like the RFID, you know, those, Yeah. Or like the RFID, you know, those, you know, something that's a postage you know, something that's a postage you know, something that's a postage stamp size, if you walk past it with a stamp size, if you walk past it with a stamp size, if you walk past it with a device, it device, it device, it gets right. Exactly. So I think people gets right. Exactly. So I think people gets right. Exactly. So I think people are inventing lots of ways to detect are inventing lots of ways to detect are inventing lots of ways to detect what's happening. We see it in what's happening. We see it in what's happening. We see it in environmental sensing all the time too environmental sensing all the time too environmental sensing all the time too like out outdoor you know detecting like out outdoor you know detecting like out outdoor you know detecting water quality and anti- poaching and you water quality and anti- poaching and you water quality and anti- poaching and you know lots of good use cases agriculture know lots of good use cases agriculture know lots of good use cases agriculture right but you're not using the camera right but you're not using the camera right but you're not using the camera necessarily anymore using other sensors necessarily anymore using other sensors necessarily anymore using other sensors to do anomaly detection pattern you know to do anomaly detection pattern you know to do anomaly detection pattern you know kind of machine learning on the patterns kind of machine learning on the patterns kind of machine learning on the patterns to to do that. So I think we're going to to to do that. So I think we're going to to to do that. So I think we're going to see a lot more oh we lost we lost see a lot more oh we lost we lost see a lot more oh we lost we lost hopefully that was just a hopefully that hopefully that was just a hopefully that hopefully that was just a hopefully that was just a network connection issue was just a network connection issue was just a network connection issue Leonard not a serious road accident. Leonard not a serious road accident. Leonard not a serious road accident. his rearview mirror camera where it's his rearview mirror camera where it's his rearview mirror camera where it's like was shut down by the by ICE. Yeah, like was shut down by the by ICE. Yeah, like was shut down by the by ICE. Yeah, they got shut down, you know. But yeah, they got shut down, you know. But yeah, they got shut down, you know. But yeah, this alternative sensing thing is really this alternative sensing thing is really this alternative sensing thing is really interesting and we're seeing lots of interesting and we're seeing lots of interesting and we're seeing lots of companies. There's a well I mean let her companies. There's a well I mean let her companies. There's a well I mean let her know sensors converge is coming up in know sensors converge is coming up in know sensors converge is coming up in the end of June in the Bay Area and the end of June in the Bay Area and the end of June in the Bay Area and there's going to be lots of folks there there's going to be lots of folks there there's going to be lots of folks there with environmental sensors and audio with environmental sensors and audio with environmental sensors and audio sensing and vibration and other things sensing and vibration and other things sensing and vibration and other things where you can kind of really detect now where you can kind of really detect now where you can kind of really detect now a lot of what's happening out there a lot of what's happening out there a lot of what's happening out there without a camera you know which is without a camera you know which is without a camera you know which is cameras are expensive and Debbie said

cameras are expensive and Debbie said cameras are expensive and Debbie said there's I mean there's privacy issues I there's I mean there's privacy issues I there's I mean there's privacy issues I mean if you want occupancy you don't mean if you want occupancy you don't mean if you want occupancy you don't need a camera you just can you can do it need a camera you just can you can do it need a camera you just can you can do it like different ways like different ways like different ways yeah a lot of companies have been over yeah a lot of companies have been over yeah a lot of companies have been over the years developing a lot of technology the years developing a lot of technology the years developing a lot of technology where they can sense devices and people where they can sense devices and people where they can sense devices and people without a camera because they know that without a camera because they know that without a camera because they know that that has that has that has more for traditional laws that has more more for traditional laws that has more more for traditional laws that has more kind of legal background kind of legal background kind of legal background around and stuff. Yeah, Leonard, we saw around and stuff. Yeah, Leonard, we saw around and stuff. Yeah, Leonard, we saw the Inotera neuromorphic chip with the the Inotera neuromorphic chip with the the Inotera neuromorphic chip with the radar thing. They had some cool stuff in radar thing. They had some cool stuff in radar thing. They had some cool stuff in their cool like 10 year battery life their cool like 10 year battery life their cool like 10 year battery life peel and stick you know occupancy sensor peel and stick you know occupancy sensor peel and stick you know occupancy sensor thing that was you know doing cameras thing that was you know doing cameras thing that was you know doing cameras really cool. So no that's awesome. So really cool. So no that's awesome. So really cool. So no that's awesome. So you will be tracked whether you want it you will be tracked whether you want it you will be tracked whether you want it or not came. So I have a question. We've or not came. So I have a question. We've or not came. So I have a question. We've been talking all this dystopian stuff been talking all this dystopian stuff been talking all this dystopian stuff here. I wonder if we should create our here. I wonder if we should create our here. I wonder if we should create our own dystopian thing here and maybe it'll own dystopian thing here and maybe it'll own dystopian thing here and maybe it'll be picked up by the broader media and be picked up by the broader media and be picked up by the broader media and it'll go viral. You know how there's the it'll go viral. You know how there's the it'll go viral. You know how there's the countdown clock to, you know, the countdown clock to, you know, the countdown clock to, you know, the nuclear countdown clock to whatever nuclear countdown clock to whatever nuclear countdown clock to whatever apocalypse and we're however many apocalypse and we're however many apocalypse and we're however many seconds or minutes away from midnight, seconds or minutes away from midnight, seconds or minutes away from midnight, that kind of thing. You know, they've that kind of thing. You know, they've that kind of thing. You know, they've had that. Anyway, what if we have our had that. Anyway, what if we have our had that. Anyway, what if we have our own countdown clock to the AI own countdown clock to the AI own countdown clock to the AI apocalypse?

apocalypse? apocalypse? [Music] And on our show, we say, "How many And on our show, we say, "How many minutes away are we from midnight of the minutes away are we from midnight of the minutes away are we from midnight of the AI apocalypse?" I think we're past AI apocalypse?" I think we're past AI apocalypse?" I think we're past midnight. We just haven't And I'm gonna midnight. We just haven't And I'm gonna midnight. We just haven't And I'm gonna have to go on mute for a second because have to go on mute for a second because have to go on mute for a second because somebody's coming to my door. I'll be somebody's coming to my door. I'll be somebody's coming to my door. I'll be back. Okay. back. Okay. back. Okay. Well, I think that's concerning. I think Well, I think that's concerning. I think Well, I think that's concerning. I think the concern for me is not, you know, the concern for me is not, you know, the concern for me is not, you know, people are kind of obsessed with the people are kind of obsessed with the people are kind of obsessed with the idea about, you know, AI taking over. idea about, you know, AI taking over. idea about, you know, AI taking over. Um, which, you know, is possible they Um, which, you know, is possible they Um, which, you know, is possible they can do that. But I think the thing that can do that. But I think the thing that can do that. But I think the thing that frightens me more and what we're dealing frightens me more and what we're dealing frightens me more and what we're dealing with now is people thinking the AI can with now is people thinking the AI can with now is people thinking the AI can do more than it can, right? So giving it do more than it can, right? So giving it do more than it can, right? So giving it more authority than it should have that more authority than it should have that more authority than it should have that it to do things that it can't do. So it to do things that it can't do. So it to do things that it can't do. So like companies for example firing people like companies for example firing people like companies for example firing people because they think AI is going to do the because they think AI is going to do the because they think AI is going to do the job and they're figuring out it doesn't job and they're figuring out it doesn't job and they're figuring out it doesn't work that way, right? So you're creating work that way, right? So you're creating work that way, right? So you're creating harm based on this harm based on this harm based on this false notion that AI can do more than it false notion that AI can do more than it false notion that AI can do more than it can do. And to me, I'm more frightened can do. And to me, I'm more frightened can do. And to me, I'm more frightened about what that means right now than, about what that means right now than, about what that means right now than, you know, the the evil robot taking you know, the the evil robot taking you know, the the evil robot taking over, which that can happen too. So over, which that can happen too. So over, which that can happen too. So there's also this uh the this agentic AI there's also this uh the this agentic AI there's also this uh the this agentic AI challenge where I mean Leonard's talked challenge where I mean Leonard's talked challenge where I mean Leonard's talked about this too like we have core AI like about this too like we have core AI like about this too like we have core AI like generative AI you know is is can be generative AI you know is is can be generative AI you know is is can be riddled with errors in terms of what

riddled with errors in terms of what riddled with errors in terms of what it's saying and then if you turn it into it's saying and then if you turn it into it's saying and then if you turn it into a gentic AI where it can actually a gentic AI where it can actually a gentic AI where it can actually activate things and do things. I I saw activate things and do things. I I saw activate things and do things. I I saw someone was talking about we actually someone was talking about we actually someone was talking about we actually just had a generative AI live stream just had a generative AI live stream just had a generative AI live stream this past week like a it's eight hours this past week like a it's eight hours this past week like a it's eight hours of live stream talks about generative AI of live stream talks about generative AI of live stream talks about generative AI and the edge which is really cool. So and the edge which is really cool. So and the edge which is really cool. So YouTube channel, but um someone was YouTube channel, but um someone was YouTube channel, but um someone was talking about using agentic AI with talking about using agentic AI with talking about using agentic AI with airline agents and like you know who airline agents and like you know who airline agents and like you know who book who boards the plane when and book who boards the plane when and book who boards the plane when and there's all these different people there's all these different people there's all these different people communicating and different you know communicating and different you know communicating and different you know then having an AI agent agentic system then having an AI agent agentic system then having an AI agent agentic system take over that and it's sort of like take over that and it's sort of like take over that and it's sort of like that all sounds great assuming that all that all sounds great assuming that all that all sounds great assuming that all the data is accurate and everyone's you the data is accurate and everyone's you the data is accurate and everyone's you know but once you have AI agents sort of know but once you have AI agents sort of know but once you have AI agents sort of taking action on data that's maybe not taking action on data that's maybe not taking action on data that's maybe not accurate then things can go south. Yeah. accurate then things can go south. Yeah. accurate then things can go south. Yeah. And and you know what, like when I was And and you know what, like when I was And and you know what, like when I was at at at RSAC, one of the biggest discussion RSAC, one of the biggest discussion RSAC, one of the biggest discussion topics was not just data posture, but topics was not just data posture, but topics was not just data posture, but just the general how bad data is. And just the general how bad data is. And just the general how bad data is. And you have these guys going around you have these guys going around you have these guys going around shilling AI, making it sound like it's shilling AI, making it sound like it's shilling AI, making it sound like it's some sort of magic.

some sort of magic. some sort of magic. uh uh uh and you know having no idea of what it and you know having no idea of what it and you know having no idea of what it takes to actually get to a level of data takes to actually get to a level of data takes to actually get to a level of data quality and also um data security in quality and also um data security in quality and also um data security in order to uh realize an effective and order to uh realize an effective and order to uh realize an effective and safe AI application. it it you know safe AI application. it it you know safe AI application. it it you know these disconnects are are are the things these disconnects are are are the things these disconnects are are are the things that are more problematic than the the that are more problematic than the the that are more problematic than the the technology itself. The technology is the technology itself. The technology is the technology itself. The technology is the technology. What's more frightening is technology. What's more frightening is technology. What's more frightening is the mislication of technology. It's just the mislication of technology. It's just the mislication of technology. It's just like the nucle nuclear u nuclear energy, like the nucle nuclear u nuclear energy, like the nucle nuclear u nuclear energy, right? uh you can either make a bomb and right? uh you can either make a bomb and right? uh you can either make a bomb and let it off or you can go and try to let it off or you can go and try to let it off or you can go and try to harness it and uh you know provide power harness it and uh you know provide power harness it and uh you know provide power for a you know a city right but it's for a you know a city right but it's for a you know a city right but it's what's abs what's really frightening is what's abs what's really frightening is what's abs what's really frightening is um the the the scale of mislication um the the the scale of mislication um the the the scale of mislication and that's what ultimately is going to and that's what ultimately is going to and that's what ultimately is going to cause the you know sort of this uh cause the you know sort of this uh cause the you know sort of this uh critical mass of catastrophe at some critical mass of catastrophe at some critical mass of catastrophe at some point you know that down to uh you know point you know that down to uh you know point you know that down to uh you know the AI apocalypse, but it's all the AI apocalypse, but it's all the AI apocalypse, but it's all humanmade. It's it's it's people, you humanmade. It's it's it's people, you humanmade. It's it's it's people, you know. I mean, AI it's just going, okay, know. I mean, AI it's just going, okay, know. I mean, AI it's just going, okay, uh I I um uh I I um uh I I um hallucinate. I uh drift, I you know, hallucinate. I uh drift, I you know, hallucinate. I uh drift, I you know, decline over time. I have all these decline over time. I have all these decline over time. I have all these people. Don't blame me. You know what

people. Don't blame me. You know what people. Don't blame me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, we can't blame I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, we can't blame I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, we can't blame AI. We can only blame ourselves. Yeah. AI. We can only blame ourselves. Yeah. AI. We can only blame ourselves. Yeah. So the sooner we can replace humans with So the sooner we can replace humans with So the sooner we can replace humans with AI, the better it sounds like. Well, no. AI, the better it sounds like. Well, no. AI, the better it sounds like. Well, no. Well, you know, I think, you know, don't Well, you know, I think, you know, don't Well, you know, I think, you know, don't give AI any funny ideas, man. Oh, sorry. give AI any funny ideas, man. Oh, sorry. give AI any funny ideas, man. Oh, sorry. Was was the Zoom AI listening? I didn't. Was was the Zoom AI listening? I didn't. Was was the Zoom AI listening? I didn't. Yes. Yes. I think, you know, I know you Yes. Yes. I think, you know, I know you Yes. Yes. I think, you know, I know you guys have heard the statistic where guys have heard the statistic where guys have heard the statistic where people say that companies only use like people say that companies only use like people say that companies only use like a very small really utilize only a very a very small really utilize only a very a very small really utilize only a very small percentage of the data that they small percentage of the data that they small percentage of the data that they have, right? So people use that to say, have, right? So people use that to say, have, right? So people use that to say, "Oh, well, we can have AI and you can "Oh, well, we can have AI and you can "Oh, well, we can have AI and you can use like a higher percentage of your use like a higher percentage of your use like a higher percentage of your data." But what they're not saying and data." But what they're not saying and data." But what they're not saying and what Elon is trying to say is that that what Elon is trying to say is that that what Elon is trying to say is that that stuff is trash. It's trash. Like a lot stuff is trash. It's trash. Like a lot stuff is trash. It's trash. Like a lot of the data that people have is garbage. of the data that people have is garbage. of the data that people have is garbage. So when you throw that into those So when you throw that into those So when you throw that into those systems and you're making decisions on systems and you're making decisions on systems and you're making decisions on trash, all you're going to get is more trash, all you're going to get is more trash, all you're going to get is more garbage. I want I your photo like out on garbage. I want I your photo like out on garbage. I want I your photo like out on the internet Debbie your tagline should the internet Debbie your tagline should the internet Debbie your tagline should be like your data is trash or something be like your data is trash or something be like your data is trash or something like that you know it's like people like that you know it's like people like that you know it's like people forgot when we were just doing plain old forgot when we were just doing plain old forgot when we were just doing plain old machine learning that actually may have machine learning that actually may have machine learning that actually may have value as opposed to this generative value as opposed to this generative value as opposed to this generative thing. What did we always say? Data thing. What did we always say? Data thing. What did we always say? Data engineering is 80% of the job. Good engineering is 80% of the job. Good engineering is 80% of the job. Good clean data missing values all that clean data missing values all that clean data missing values all that stuff. If you don't do that, then don't stuff. If you don't do that, then don't stuff. If you don't do that, then don't expect anything good on the other side.

expect anything good on the other side. expect anything good on the other side. Why are we magically thinking with Why are we magically thinking with Why are we magically thinking with generative AI that it can it's just a generative AI that it can it's just a generative AI that it can it's just a free-for-all and it's it'll discern the free-for-all and it's it'll discern the free-for-all and it's it'll discern the good and bad data. Right. Right. Yeah. good and bad data. Right. Right. Yeah. good and bad data. Right. Right. Yeah. All that being said, okay, generative All that being said, okay, generative All that being said, okay, generative AI as a novel form of um AI can be AI as a novel form of um AI can be AI as a novel form of um AI can be helpful in cleaning up some of the data, helpful in cleaning up some of the data, helpful in cleaning up some of the data, right? But it still needs eyes and ears right? But it still needs eyes and ears right? But it still needs eyes and ears to review to review to review um and orchestrate that whole process um and orchestrate that whole process um and orchestrate that whole process and and this is where people are just and and this is where people are just and and this is where people are just simply losing it, right? So yeah, it has simply losing it, right? So yeah, it has simply losing it, right? So yeah, it has utility unfortunately. Yeah, AI boom utility unfortunately. Yeah, AI boom utility unfortunately. Yeah, AI boom there is no real AI boom. You can't there is no real AI boom. You can't there is no real AI boom. You can't quantify it. I mean Sam uh Google having quantify it. I mean Sam uh Google having quantify it. I mean Sam uh Google having to pay Samsung and Apple for placement to pay Samsung and Apple for placement to pay Samsung and Apple for placement for Gemini on iOS and um you know what for Gemini on iOS and um you know what for Gemini on iOS and um you know what do you call it? Uh one uh one UI that's do you call it? Uh one uh one UI that's do you call it? Uh one uh one UI that's not moni that's a flip that that's not moni that's a flip that that's not moni that's a flip that that's reverse right you're subsidizing AI. So reverse right you're subsidizing AI. So reverse right you're subsidizing AI. So I mean I wrote a piece on that AI is I mean I wrote a piece on that AI is I mean I wrote a piece on that AI is subsidized that that that doesn't mean subsidized that that that doesn't mean subsidized that that that doesn't mean there's a revolution. What it means is there's a revolution. What it means is there's a revolution. What it means is that we have a that we have a that we have a supercomputing supercomputing supercomputing revolution and it just happens that revolution and it just happens that revolution and it just happens that there are these dubious AI um you know there are these dubious AI um you know there are these dubious AI um you know uh projects and workloads that uh uh projects and workloads that uh uh projects and workloads that uh haven't found uh you know figured out

haven't found uh you know figured out haven't found uh you know figured out how to be monetized that are um creating how to be monetized that are um creating how to be monetized that are um creating this perception of AI demand. That's this perception of AI demand. That's this perception of AI demand. That's that's not true, right? Demand means that's not true, right? Demand means that's not true, right? Demand means that someone is willing to pay for it. that someone is willing to pay for it. that someone is willing to pay for it. You know what I'm saying? And and that You know what I'm saying? And and that You know what I'm saying? And and that they get and that they they're going to they get and that they they're going to they get and that they they're going to get some type of value out of it. Yeah. get some type of value out of it. Yeah. get some type of value out of it. Yeah. Not that it's subsidized, right? I mean, Not that it's subsidized, right? I mean, Not that it's subsidized, right? I mean, anybody is going to have, you know, you anybody is going to have, you know, you anybody is going to have, you know, you give something for free, take it, you give something for free, take it, you give something for free, take it, you know, but obviously they're going to know, but obviously they're going to know, but obviously they're going to they're going to be they're going to be they're going to be they're going to be they're going to be they're going to be uh monetizing using an ad ad bottle, uh monetizing using an ad ad bottle, uh monetizing using an ad ad bottle, right? They're going to go back premium right? They're going to go back premium right? They're going to go back premium model which is you know we know is uh model which is you know we know is uh model which is you know we know is uh going to continue to perpetuate and going to continue to perpetuate and going to continue to perpetuate and deepen this whole uh surveillance uh uh deepen this whole uh surveillance uh uh deepen this whole uh surveillance uh uh economy that we're we're starting to economy that we're we're starting to economy that we're we're starting to model for ourselves AI you know let me model for ourselves AI you know let me model for ourselves AI you know let me uh uh this issue of data sets I'll plug uh uh this issue of data sets I'll plug uh uh this issue of data sets I'll plug a um a little startup that I heard of a um a little startup that I heard of a um a little startup that I heard of recently that actually joined our AJ recently that actually joined our AJ recently that actually joined our AJ Foundation community called B Simple Be Foundation community called B Simple Be Foundation community called B Simple Be simple uh ex Microsoft X Meta um Y Jang simple uh ex Microsoft X Meta um Y Jang simple uh ex Microsoft X Meta um Y Jang she started this company and they use she started this company and they use she started this company and they use generative AI to clean data sets and get generative AI to clean data sets and get generative AI to clean data sets and get data sets into that's a good use I was data sets into that's a good use I was data sets into that's a good use I was like pretty cool pretty cool so yes like like pretty cool pretty cool so yes like like pretty cool pretty cool so yes like you're right Leonard like like the you're right Leonard like like the you're right Leonard like like the application of this stuff to create application of this stuff to create application of this stuff to create cleaner data better data sets um so yeah cleaner data better data sets um so yeah cleaner data better data sets um so yeah they're preede by the way be simple so they're preede by the way be simple so they're preede by the way be simple so there's any VCs listening yeah but you there's any VCs listening yeah but you there's any VCs listening yeah but you have to be very careful a buddy of mine have to be very careful a buddy of mine have to be very careful a buddy of mine he um used chat GPT chat GPT to um you

he um used chat GPT chat GPT to um you he um used chat GPT chat GPT to um you know pump out a a really complex model know pump out a a really complex model know pump out a a really complex model in Excel for a project that he was in Excel for a project that he was in Excel for a project that he was working on and you know he pings me and working on and you know he pings me and working on and you know he pings me and says oh my god this thing saved me two says oh my god this thing saved me two says oh my god this thing saved me two to three hours you know I might have to to three hours you know I might have to to three hours you know I might have to change my mind about chat GPT right then change my mind about chat GPT right then change my mind about chat GPT right then he started looking at the calculations he started looking at the calculations he started looking at the calculations and realized a few of them were wrong and realized a few of them were wrong and realized a few of them were wrong then he realized there was a lot wrong then he realized there was a lot wrong then he realized there was a lot wrong so later on the week he pings me back so later on the week he pings me back so later on the week he pings me back and he goes, "Dude, this thing is crap. and he goes, "Dude, this thing is crap. and he goes, "Dude, this thing is crap. I just had to spend 13 hours going I just had to spend 13 hours going I just had to spend 13 hours going through an entire cycle of figuring out through an entire cycle of figuring out through an entire cycle of figuring out what chat GPT screwed up and uh having what chat GPT screwed up and uh having what chat GPT screwed up and uh having to realize I have to re redo all this to realize I have to re redo all this to realize I have to re redo all this work." So, I actually wasted 12 to 14 work." So, I actually wasted 12 to 14 work." So, I actually wasted 12 to 14 hours. So, you know, and I was, you hours. So, you know, and I was, you hours. So, you know, and I was, you know, when he told me, "Wow, this thing know, when he told me, "Wow, this thing know, when he told me, "Wow, this thing is like really cool." I was like is like really cool." I was like is like really cool." I was like questioning my doubts about Jack EBT but questioning my doubts about Jack EBT but questioning my doubts about Jack EBT but only you know to have my sus suspicion only you know to have my sus suspicion only you know to have my sus suspicion sustained when he came back and said sustained when he came back and said sustained when he came back and said dude I just wasted 12 to 14 hours and I dude I just wasted 12 to 14 hours and I dude I just wasted 12 to 14 hours and I but he had to redo everything. Did you but he had to redo everything. Did you but he had to redo everything. Did you tell him that he was holding it wrong?

tell him that he was holding it wrong? tell him that he was holding it wrong? That's usually That's usually That's usually but no you know what I'm saying is even but no you know what I'm saying is even but no you know what I'm saying is even in those exercises you need to test you in those exercises you need to test you in those exercises you need to test you need to do all these fundamental things need to do all these fundamental things need to do all these fundamental things that have always been that have always been that have always been yeah and so it doesn't replace the yeah and so it doesn't replace the yeah and so it doesn't replace the process it can be used as a tool for ver process it can be used as a tool for ver process it can be used as a tool for ver you know specific things that you can you know specific things that you can you know specific things that you can prove uh as a practitioner that it works prove uh as a practitioner that it works prove uh as a practitioner that it works in a reliable way it will jack in a reliable way it will jack in a reliable way it will jack everything up right but isn't that the everything up right but isn't that the everything up right but isn't that the concept behind mixture of experts concept behind mixture of experts concept behind mixture of experts is that you've got now AI models sort of is that you've got now AI models sort of is that you've got now AI models sort of validating and checking. So the validating and checking. So the validating and checking. So the reasoning now in some of the newer reasoning now in some of the newer reasoning now in some of the newer models will hopefully reduce the models will hopefully reduce the models will hopefully reduce the percentage of error through a mixture. I percentage of error through a mixture. I percentage of error through a mixture. I would never I would never ask it to do would never I would never ask it to do would never I would never ask it to do anything that I didn't know how to anything that I didn't know how to anything that I didn't know how to do because I wouldn't because then it do because I wouldn't because then it do because I wouldn't because then it gives you the perception that is right. gives you the perception that is right. gives you the perception that is right. Right. What if you asked three different Right. What if you asked three different Right. What if you asked three different you asked you know Claude and chat GPT you asked you know Claude and chat GPT you asked you know Claude and chat GPT and you know Llama all three of the same and you know Llama all three of the same and you know Llama all three of the same question and then you and then you kind question and then you and then you kind question and then you and then you kind of saw the answers and then you came up of saw the answers and then you came up of saw the answers and then you came up with an answer out of those three. It's with an answer out of those three. It's with an answer out of those three. It's kind of what is is like kind of so you kind of what is is like kind of so you kind of what is is like kind of so you know I mean it it assume it that also know I mean it it assume it that also know I mean it it assume it that also assumes that it knows what the right assumes that it knows what the right assumes that it knows what the right answer is which I don't think yeah I answer is which I don't think yeah I answer is which I don't think yeah I mean it could be 0 for three well yeah mean it could be 0 for three well yeah mean it could be 0 for three well yeah well I mean Rob and I talked about last well I mean Rob and I talked about last well I mean Rob and I talked about last week uh mixture expert is basically uh week uh mixture expert is basically uh week uh mixture expert is basically uh just a collection of experts for just a collection of experts for just a collection of experts for instance deepseek has over 200 experts instance deepseek has over 200 experts instance deepseek has over 200 experts right smaller models that uh are uh

right smaller models that uh are uh right smaller models that uh are uh fine-tuned for a specific domain Right. fine-tuned for a specific domain Right. fine-tuned for a specific domain Right. And then you have an And then you have an And then you have an orchestrator model that basically uh you orchestrator model that basically uh you orchestrator model that basically uh you know it takes the initial requests know it takes the initial requests know it takes the initial requests coming in or prompts and then it it coming in or prompts and then it it coming in or prompts and then it it figures out which experts do I need to figures out which experts do I need to figures out which experts do I need to go to and then and then you know all go to and then and then you know all go to and then and then you know all that gets uh you know parsed out into a that gets uh you know parsed out into a that gets uh you know parsed out into a quote unquote better uh response right quote unquote better uh response right quote unquote better uh response right for that prompt. It's still oneshot but for that prompt. It's still oneshot but for that prompt. It's still oneshot but then now you have reasoning models where then now you have reasoning models where then now you have reasoning models where you it's recursive right so you've you it's recursive right so you've you it's recursive right so you've probably heard of all this talk about KV probably heard of all this talk about KV probably heard of all this talk about KV cache and stuff like that maybe maybe cache and stuff like that maybe maybe cache and stuff like that maybe maybe not um this is all about having uh not um this is all about having uh not um this is all about having uh automating the prompting process so you automating the prompting process so you automating the prompting process so you know this long thinking concept it's know this long thinking concept it's know this long thinking concept it's really automating multi-shot versus really automating multi-shot versus really automating multi-shot versus singleshot right and the hope there is singleshot right and the hope there is singleshot right and the hope there is that these uh models can you know that these uh models can you know that these uh models can you know through sort of an agentic mechanism through sort of an agentic mechanism through sort of an agentic mechanism uh simulate thinking, long thinking, uh simulate thinking, long thinking, uh simulate thinking, long thinking, right? But all you're really doing is right? But all you're really doing is right? But all you're really doing is you're taking one prompt results feeding you're taking one prompt results feeding you're taking one prompt results feeding that into another prompt and then uh so that into another prompt and then uh so that into another prompt and then uh so if you have like hallucinations, you're if you have like hallucinations, you're if you have like hallucinations, you're just compounding them. Do you know what just compounding them. Do you know what just compounding them. Do you know what I'm saying? And so there is no proof I'm saying? And so there is no proof I'm saying? And so there is no proof that these things are actually better.

that these things are actually better. that these things are actually better. They can think, they functionally can do They can think, they functionally can do They can think, they functionally can do certain things that a single shot a certain things that a single shot a certain things that a single shot a prompt can't do. But in effect, what prompt can't do. But in effect, what prompt can't do. But in effect, what you're doing is you are um you're ch you you're doing is you are um you're ch you you're doing is you are um you're ch you know this whole idea of chain of know this whole idea of chain of know this whole idea of chain of thought, you're chaining prompts and thought, you're chaining prompts and thought, you're chaining prompts and responses together, right? responses together, right? responses together, right? Yeah. And that still doesn't mean that Yeah. And that still doesn't mean that Yeah. And that still doesn't mean that the the source data that they got that the the source data that they got that the the source data that they got that they used was true or right. Right. they used was true or right. Right. they used was true or right. Right. Yeah. That's a totally different Yeah. That's a totally different Yeah. That's a totally different problem. That's at at bottom level. problem. That's at at bottom level. problem. That's at at bottom level. That's totally foundational. So, you're That's totally foundational. So, you're That's totally foundational. So, you're absolutely right. That's why it's still, absolutely right. That's why it's still, absolutely right. That's why it's still, you know, they say, "Hey, you know, who you know, they say, "Hey, you know, who you know, they say, "Hey, you know, who gives a, you know, who gives a crap gives a, you know, who gives a crap gives a, you know, who gives a crap about foundational model training or about foundational model training or about foundational model training or pre-training?" Oh, that still matters a pre-training?" Oh, that still matters a pre-training?" Oh, that still matters a lot because whoever has the best lot because whoever has the best lot because whoever has the best foundation models, right? They're going foundation models, right? They're going foundation models, right? They're going to win because they're going to have to win because they're going to have to win because they're going to have less crappy reasoning models, right? less crappy reasoning models, right? less crappy reasoning models, right? and has a hu multiplicative effect in and has a hu multiplicative effect in and has a hu multiplicative effect in terms of quality and efficacy and uh terms of quality and efficacy and uh terms of quality and efficacy and uh efficiency there. I mean there's like a efficiency there. I mean there's like a efficiency there. I mean there's like a whole field of implications that whole field of implications that whole field of implications that actually largely are not talked about actually largely are not talked about actually largely are not talked about and not known because it's just so new.

and not known because it's just so new. and not known because it's just so new. You know, you know what? I think I have You know, you know what? I think I have You know, you know what? I think I have to bring back bring us back to the to bring back bring us back to the to bring back bring us back to the matrix again. And I think what's missing matrix again. And I think what's missing matrix again. And I think what's missing here is what we had in in yesterday here is what we had in in yesterday here is what we had in in yesterday year, you know, back in olden times, year, you know, back in olden times, year, you know, back in olden times, which is a librarian, which is a librarian, which is a librarian, someone who curates information. And so someone who curates information. And so someone who curates information. And so that's what I think we're missing that's what I think we're missing that's what I think we're missing because not everything, every bit of because not everything, every bit of because not everything, every bit of information is not true or right or information is not true or right or information is not true or right or appropriate, right? And so you really appropriate, right? And so you really appropriate, right? And so you really needed someone at that curation layer to needed someone at that curation layer to needed someone at that curation layer to help guide. And so that's what I feel help guide. And so that's what I feel help guide. And so that's what I feel like we're missing in the AI age. And so like we're missing in the AI age. And so like we're missing in the AI age. And so it made me think of the architect it made me think of the architect it made me think of the architect actually in the actually in the actually in the the like a librarian basically. the like a librarian basically. the like a librarian basically. The first version of the matrix was The first version of the matrix was The first version of the matrix was sublime. sublime. sublime. It was a tremendous failure. It was too It was a tremendous failure. It was too It was a tremendous failure. It was too perfect. Humans wouldn't accept the perfect. Humans wouldn't accept the perfect. Humans wouldn't accept the program. program. program. They need suffering to make it. Yes. They need suffering to make it. Yes. They need suffering to make it. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You know, I like the I Yes. Yes. Yeah. You know, I like the I Yes. Yes. Yeah. You know, I like the I love Can you imagine a dystopian movie love Can you imagine a dystopian movie love Can you imagine a dystopian movie called The Librarian?

called The Librarian? called The Librarian? I'm down with it. I'm down with it. Oh I'm down with it. I'm down with it. Oh I'm down with it. I'm down with it. Oh my god. Like this whole thing happens, my god. Like this whole thing happens, my god. Like this whole thing happens, the AI apocalypse happens, and then the AI apocalypse happens, and then the AI apocalypse happens, and then after and the librarian was like the key after and the librarian was like the key after and the librarian was like the key person through the whole deal. And person through the whole deal. And person through the whole deal. And that's kind of like, you know, like in that's kind of like, you know, like in that's kind of like, you know, like in uh Bladeunner uh Bladeunner uh Bladeunner 2049, you know, cuz they had an EMP that 2049, you know, cuz they had an EMP that 2049, you know, cuz they had an EMP that wiped out all the data, but remember wiped out all the data, but remember wiped out all the data, but remember there was a library with actually hard there was a library with actually hard there was a library with actually hard copies. That was the only knowledge that copies. That was the only knowledge that copies. That was the only knowledge that survived. So when we guys are all survived. So when we guys are all survived. So when we guys are all excited about digital transformation, excited about digital transformation, excited about digital transformation, be careful. You might want some stuff on be careful. You might want some stuff on be careful. You might want some stuff on paper somewhere. That's right. Yeah. paper somewhere. That's right. Yeah. paper somewhere. That's right. Yeah. Like Mission Impossible. Um the whatever Like Mission Impossible. Um the whatever Like Mission Impossible. Um the whatever reckoning, right? Yeah. Remember that reckoning, right? Yeah. Remember that reckoning, right? Yeah. Remember that mass scramble to basically print out all mass scramble to basically print out all mass scramble to basically print out all the data? Print print, the data? Print print, the data? Print print, put it in iron mouth. Yeah. No, that's that could come. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's that could come. Yeah. Wow. You know, Leonard, I hope the name Wow. You know, Leonard, I hope the name Wow. You know, Leonard, I hope the name of the paper that you wrote was called of the paper that you wrote was called of the paper that you wrote was called like AI dot dot dot the subsidized like AI dot dot dot the subsidized like AI dot dot dot the subsidized pseudo revolution or whatever, you know, pseudo revolution or whatever, you know, pseudo revolution or whatever, you know, artificial revolution. That's You know artificial revolution. That's You know artificial revolution. That's You know what? I should have conferred with you what? I should have conferred with you what? I should have conferred with you beforehand. No, I called it the um the beforehand. No, I called it the um the beforehand. No, I called it the um the uh um subsidized state of generative AI uh um subsidized state of generative AI uh um subsidized state of generative AI monetization is what I called it. Yeah, monetization is what I called it. Yeah, monetization is what I called it. Yeah, you need to work on your link bait and you need to work on your link bait and you need to work on your link bait and you know Yeah, I do.

you know Yeah, I do. you know Yeah, I do. I got to use you, man. You got to I got I got to use you, man. You got to I got I got to use you, man. You got to I got to consult you. That's awesome. I'm sure to consult you. That's awesome. I'm sure to consult you. That's awesome. I'm sure there's some some Matrix sayings or there's some some Matrix sayings or there's some some Matrix sayings or quotes in there you can throw in there quotes in there you can throw in there quotes in there you can throw in there that would be very appropriate. Yeah. that would be very appropriate. Yeah. that would be very appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I try to be a little Yeah. You know, I try to be a little Yeah. You know, I try to be a little semi-professional. Um, Rob, that's why. semi-professional. Um, Rob, that's why. semi-professional. Um, Rob, that's why. Borderline. Yeah. You know, but you're Borderline. Yeah. You know, but you're Borderline. Yeah. You know, but you're right. You that we have to resort to right. You that we have to resort to right. You that we have to resort to those those measures these days just those those measures these days just those those measures these days just because clickbait is now uh clickbait because clickbait is now uh clickbait because clickbait is now uh clickbait titles are are are becoming a necessity, titles are are are becoming a necessity, titles are are are becoming a necessity, right? Because they're just it's just right? Because they're just it's just right? Because they're just it's just standard fair these days, right? Right. standard fair these days, right? Right. standard fair these days, right? Right. uh just have an outrageous title for uh just have an outrageous title for uh just have an outrageous title for your article and then your article will your article and then your article will your article and then your article will have nothing to do with what whatever it have nothing to do with what whatever it have nothing to do with what whatever it is that your title suggests. So yeah, is that your title suggests. So yeah, is that your title suggests. So yeah, trick them into reading it. Trick them. trick them into reading it. Trick them. trick them into reading it. Trick them. You have to trick them into reading it. You have to trick them into reading it. You have to trick them into reading it. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Interesting. You know, um I've been seeing some new You know, um I've been seeing some new You know, um I've been seeing some new new and improved I don't know if it's new and improved I don't know if it's new and improved I don't know if it's improved or not. you know, Mark Andre improved or not. you know, Mark Andre improved or not. you know, Mark Andre videos of, you know, I've heard I've videos of, you know, I've heard I've videos of, you know, I've heard I've seen stuff where he's like, "Make all seen stuff where he's like, "Make all seen stuff where he's like, "Make all the money you can in the next 5 years the money you can in the next 5 years the money you can in the next 5 years and then it's all over." Um, related to and then it's all over." Um, related to and then it's all over." Um, related to AI. And then I saw another one just AI. And then I saw another one just AI. And then I saw another one just recently where he was like saying the recently where he was like saying the recently where he was like saying the price of everything's going to go to price of everything's going to go to price of everything's going to go to zero or a penny or whatever. Like zero or a penny or whatever. Like zero or a penny or whatever. Like everything in the economy, everything's everything in the economy, everything's everything in the economy, everything's gonna be so easy and cheap and free. So gonna be so easy and cheap and free. So gonna be so easy and cheap and free. So says so says the billionaire from says so says the billionaire from says so says the billionaire from Silicon Valley. Exactly. Exactly. He Silicon Valley. Exactly. Exactly. He Silicon Valley. Exactly. Exactly. He doesn't even know how much eggs cost, doesn't even know how much eggs cost, doesn't even know how much eggs cost, you know. Yes. Yes. It's going to zero.

you know. Yes. Yes. It's going to zero. you know. Yes. Yes. It's going to zero. Isn't it zero already? I'm not sure. How Isn't it zero already? I'm not sure. How Isn't it zero already? I'm not sure. How much is milk? How much can a banana be? much is milk? How much can a banana be? much is milk? How much can a banana be? $9. Yeah, right. No. I That was like one $9. Yeah, right. No. I That was like one $9. Yeah, right. No. I That was like one of the dumbest I I actually um responded of the dumbest I I actually um responded of the dumbest I I actually um responded to somebody who posted that and said, to somebody who posted that and said, to somebody who posted that and said, um, has this guy ever actually worked in um, has this guy ever actually worked in um, has this guy ever actually worked in any industry other than building a a web any industry other than building a a web any industry other than building a a web browser? browser? browser? you know, and what what other uh other you know, and what what other uh other you know, and what what other uh other than his VC, what are other claims to than his VC, what are other claims to than his VC, what are other claims to fame that he has that fame that he has that fame that he has that let's get to a product or something? let's get to a product or something? let's get to a product or something? Hopefully hopefully you learn from all Hopefully hopefully you learn from all Hopefully hopefully you learn from all your portfolio companies over the years, your portfolio companies over the years, your portfolio companies over the years, but you never know. You never know. You but you never know. You never know. You but you never know. You never know. You know, fa failing up is a thing. It is. know, fa failing up is a thing. It is. know, fa failing up is a thing. It is. Failing up is a thing. That's true. Failing up is a thing. That's true. Failing up is a thing. That's true. That's true. I should have learned That's true. I should have learned That's true. I should have learned better at that. better at that. better at that. All right. Who wants to take us out? Let's see here. I'll I'll give it a go.

Let's see here. I'll I'll give it a go. So, we've had a we've had another So, we've had a we've had another So, we've had a we've had another wonderful hour of talk and we've gotten wonderful hour of talk and we've gotten wonderful hour of talk and we've gotten a little bit of a scenic drive of San a little bit of a scenic drive of San a little bit of a scenic drive of San Diego through Leonard's back window. Uh, Diego through Leonard's back window. Uh, Diego through Leonard's back window. Uh, which is fantastic. But, uh, blur it all which is fantastic. But, uh, blur it all which is fantastic. But, uh, blur it all out. There you go. With Debbie and Rob out. There you go. With Debbie and Rob out. There you go. With Debbie and Rob and, uh, and Leonard and myself. But you and, uh, and Leonard and myself. But you and, uh, and Leonard and myself. But you really this is about uh taking it back really this is about uh taking it back really this is about uh taking it back to elevate our kids. Making sure that to elevate our kids. Making sure that to elevate our kids. Making sure that you donate so that more and more people you donate so that more and more people you donate so that more and more people can get uh and kids can get connected can get uh and kids can get connected can get uh and kids can get connected and get educated because without and get educated because without and get educated because without education as you can see from this education as you can see from this education as you can see from this conversation, you know, we're just we're conversation, you know, we're just we're conversation, you know, we're just we're just making [ __ ] up. So you got you got just making [ __ ] up. So you got you got just making [ __ ] up. So you got you got to get educated. to get educated. to get educated. Elevate our kids. So buy some gear, Elevate our kids. So buy some gear, Elevate our kids. So buy some gear, throw in 50 bucks, you know, it's not a throw in 50 bucks, you know, it's not a throw in 50 bucks, you know, it's not a big deal. So that's the big thing. Um, big deal. So that's the big thing. Um, big deal. So that's the big thing. Um, and uh, other than that, you know, I and uh, other than that, you know, I and uh, other than that, you know, I hope that everyone enjoys whatever the hope that everyone enjoys whatever the hope that everyone enjoys whatever the good weather is coming your way, good weather is coming your way, good weather is coming your way, depending on where you live. And uh, depending on where you live. And uh, depending on where you live. And uh, tune in next time. Same bat time, same tune in next time. Same bat time, same tune in next time. Same bat time, same bat channel. And, uh, and we'll see you bat channel. And, uh, and we'll see you bat channel. And, uh, and we'll see you then. All right. All right. We'll see then. All right. All right. We'll see then. All right. All right. We'll see you on the other side. See you in the you on the other side. See you in the you on the other side. See you in the matrix.

matrix. matrix. Matrix. Matrix. Matrix. [Music]