IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 309 - "GenAI's NFT Moment" (Have we reached peak AI silliness?)

>> Oh, yeah. Nice. Epic. >> Oh, yeah. Nice. Epic. >> Wow. That is epic. >> Wow. That is epic. >> Wow. That is epic. That is such a great song. Yes. Great That is such a great song. Yes. Great That is such a great song. Yes. Great song, man. song, man. song, man. Two weeks in a row. I know. I was really Two weeks in a row. I know. I was really Two weeks in a row. I know. I was really feeling the karaoke coming on, but then feeling the karaoke coming on, but then feeling the karaoke coming on, but then I just held back. Just held back. The I just held back. Just held back. The I just held back. Just held back. The urge. urge. urge. I did have the urge, you know. I love I did have the urge, you know. I love I did have the urge, you know. I love the rain, you know. Yes. the rain, you know. Yes. the rain, you know. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Wow, that's a good stuff. Yeah. That was Wow, that's a good stuff. Yeah. That was Wow, that's a good stuff. Yeah. That was a great album. 1985. a great album. 1985. a great album. 1985. Wow, is the Cult still together? Are Wow, is the Cult still together? Are Wow, is the Cult still together? Are they still touring? I wonder. Uh, I they still touring? I wonder. Uh, I they still touring? I wonder. Uh, I heard that it broke apart. They were heard that it broke apart. They were heard that it broke apart. They were going to go on tour. going to go on tour. going to go on tour. Yeah. That would have been That would Yeah. That would have been That would Yeah. That would have been That would have been awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. have been awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. have been awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What's his name? Ian What's his name? Ian What's his name? Ian asked Ian Astbury. Astbury. Astbury. asked Ian Astbury. Astbury. Astbury. asked Ian Astbury. Astbury. Astbury. Astbury. Yeah. Yeah. That guy. What a Astbury. Yeah. Yeah. That guy. What a Astbury. Yeah. Yeah. That guy. What a bloke. I also him at Milton Keynes Bowl bloke. I also him at Milton Keynes Bowl bloke. I also him at Milton Keynes Bowl and they played live, but it was a and they played live, but it was a and they played live, but it was a teenager and he was hit by a 2-liter teenager and he was hit by a 2-liter teenager and he was hit by a 2-liter bottle of a questionable liquid that was bottle of a questionable liquid that was bottle of a questionable liquid that was thrown from the crowd and just Oh my god.

Oh my god. The perils of live performance, right? The perils of live performance, right? The perils of live performance, right? Oh my god. They They didn't have the Oh my god. They They didn't have the Oh my god. They They didn't have the chicken wire up to protect them. chicken wire up to protect them. chicken wire up to protect them. >> [laughter] >> Too funny. >> Too funny. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> What you got to have sometimes, right? >> What you got to have sometimes, right? >> What you got to have sometimes, right? You know, especially if you're playing You know, especially if you're playing You know, especially if you're playing country and western. Well, they went to country and western. Well, they went to country and western. Well, they went to have the chicken wire. That's a very have the chicken wire. That's a very have the chicken wire. That's a very exciting exciting exciting night. night. night. Yeah. You know, they were they were like Yeah. You know, they were they were like Yeah. You know, they were they were like the neo To me, they were like the neo the neo To me, they were like the neo the neo To me, they were like the neo AC/DC, you know? They had the great AC/DC, you know? They had the great AC/DC, you know? They had the great guitar riffs, right? guitar riffs, right? guitar riffs, right? And uh just unique, awesome vocals. And uh just unique, awesome vocals. And uh just unique, awesome vocals. Yeah, and then Sisters of Mercy was kind Yeah, and then Sisters of Mercy was kind Yeah, and then Sisters of Mercy was kind of the darker version of the Cult and of the darker version of the Cult and of the darker version of the Cult and then Billy Idol was the light Billy Idol then Billy Idol was the light Billy Idol then Billy Idol was the light Billy Idol was the light was the light was the light Cult was was regular and Cult was was regular and Cult was was regular and the Sisters of Mercy was like heavy the Sisters of Mercy was like heavy the Sisters of Mercy was like heavy cream. Wow. I saw that Billy Idol is cream. Wow. I saw that Billy Idol is cream. Wow. I saw that Billy Idol is going into the Rock and Roll Hall of going into the Rock and Roll Hall of going into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Fame. Fame. That's right. Great. Oh, he should have That's right. Great. Oh, he should have That's right. Great. Oh, he should have been He should have been in there a long been He should have been in there a long been He should have been in there a long time ago.

time ago. time ago. >> ago. I know. I listened to an interview >> ago. I know. I listened to an interview >> ago. I know. I listened to an interview with him on I think it was on NPR with him on I think it was on NPR with him on I think it was on NPR recently, you know, talking about recently, you know, talking about recently, you know, talking about essentially his his profound surprise essentially his his profound surprise essentially his his profound surprise that he's still alive after that he's still alive after that he's still alive after I bet. I bet. I bet. I bet. I bet. I bet. And then like at some point his dad And then like at some point his dad And then like at some point his dad moved to the US to basically stop him moved to the US to basically stop him moved to the US to basically stop him going completely off the rails and yeah, going completely off the rails and yeah, going completely off the rails and yeah, it was really interesting it was really interesting it was really interesting really interesting interview. He was on really interesting interview. He was on really interesting interview. He was on American Idol recently this past American Idol recently this past American Idol recently this past Oh, wow. Like he's saying What was that Oh, wow. Like he's saying What was that Oh, wow. Like he's saying What was that What was the song? More, more, more or What was the song? More, more, more or What was the song? More, more, more or whatever that song is? whatever that song is? whatever that song is? Rebel Rebel Yell. Rebel Yell, yeah. He Rebel Rebel Yell. Rebel Yell, yeah. He Rebel Rebel Yell. Rebel Yell, yeah. He sang it actually. He came out and did a sang it actually. He came out and did a sang it actually. He came out and did a little surprise thing and yeah, he little surprise thing and yeah, he little surprise thing and yeah, he crushed it. Steve Stevens was there. crushed it. Steve Stevens was there. crushed it. Steve Stevens was there. Steve Stevens. Hey, little sister Steve Stevens. Hey, little sister Steve Stevens. Hey, little sister shotgun. Yeah. You know. That whiplash smile, right? He's spent a That whiplash smile, right? He's spent a decade going decade going decade going >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> But what What is the greatest thing that >> But what What is the greatest thing that >> But what What is the greatest thing that Billy Idol gave to all of us? He gave us Billy Idol gave to all of us? He gave us Billy Idol gave to all of us? He gave us Generation X. Mhm. So, thank you. Thank Generation X. Mhm. So, thank you. Thank Generation X. Mhm. So, thank you. Thank you for naming our generation. I thought you for naming our generation. I thought you for naming our generation. I thought it [clears throat] was STD of some kind.

it [clears throat] was STD of some kind. it [clears throat] was STD of some kind. I don't know. Oh, ouch. Well, I admit I don't know. Oh, ouch. Well, I admit I don't know. Oh, ouch. Well, I admit some of the people in Generation X may some of the people in Generation X may some of the people in Generation X may all have also gotten that. You were places at the stage than I was You were places at the stage than I was then. then. then. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good good times. No, I you know, Yeah. Good good times. No, I you know, Yeah. Good good times. No, I you know, what was that? I was at a NAMM show. When was it? When was it? 19 19 19 Uh Uh Uh 1992? 1992? 1992? No. 1988. No. 1988. No. 1988. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. NAMM show. Yeah, I went to a party and NAMM show. Yeah, I went to a party and NAMM show. Yeah, I went to a party and met met met Um met I don't know how I ended up Um met I don't know how I ended up Um met I don't know how I ended up there. there. there. Uh But you have no memory of that. I met Uh But you have no memory of that. I met Uh But you have no memory of that. I met met met Billy Idol. met met Billy Idol. met met Billy Idol. Uh back then. Yeah. When he was young Uh back then. Yeah. When he was young Uh back then. Yeah. When he was young and yeah, it it was like crazy. It was and yeah, it it was like crazy. It was and yeah, it it was like crazy. It was disgusting actually. The disgusting actually. The disgusting actually. The These people partied super hard and it's These people partied super hard and it's These people partied super hard and it's like Holy crap. like Holy crap. like Holy crap. What's that? What's that? What's that? I don't want to sit there. [laughter] I saw Yeah.

I saw Yeah. People went pretty nuts back then. It People went pretty nuts back then. It People went pretty nuts back then. It was like was like was like crazy. crazy. crazy. I saw him at a concert. It was like an I saw him at a concert. It was like an I saw him at a concert. It was like an outdoor thing [clears throat] in the outdoor thing [clears throat] in the outdoor thing [clears throat] in the late '80s. late '80s. late '80s. And maybe it's the Is it the precursor And maybe it's the Is it the precursor And maybe it's the Is it the precursor to the mosh pit that we got with the to the mosh pit that we got with the to the mosh pit that we got with the grunge guys? Cuz everybody was slam grunge guys? Cuz everybody was slam grunge guys? Cuz everybody was slam dancing. dancing. dancing. And I was just getting beat to hell. You And I was just getting beat to hell. You And I was just getting beat to hell. You know, you're up near the stage and know, you're up near the stage and know, you're up near the stage and people are wearing like these studded people are wearing like these studded people are wearing like these studded bracelets and bracelets and bracelets and You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? >> That I did not get. Yeah. Dog collars >> That I did not get. Yeah. Dog collars >> That I did not get. Yeah. Dog collars and people are all wired up. and people are all wired up. and people are all wired up. And man, they're just like throwing And man, they're just like throwing And man, they're just like throwing people and just slamming and yeah, it people and just slamming and yeah, it people and just slamming and yeah, it was pretty brutal. was pretty brutal. was pretty brutal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I'm so glad I did that. >> So, I'm so glad I did that. >> So, I'm so glad I did that. Not. Not. Not. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Love Billy. >> Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Love Billy. >> Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Love Billy. Uh yeah. So, everyone remember um take Uh yeah. So, everyone remember um take Uh yeah. So, everyone remember um take us seriously us seriously us seriously at your own risk. And I want to remind at your own risk. And I want to remind at your own risk. And I want to remind everyone, if you don't know already, everyone, if you don't know already, everyone, if you don't know already, uplink matters.

uplink matters. uplink matters. Um and so, fiber to the home is awesome Um and so, fiber to the home is awesome Um and so, fiber to the home is awesome and I don't have that. and I don't have that. and I don't have that. Mhm. So, I have really really jittery Mhm. So, I have really really jittery Mhm. So, I have really really jittery recording recording recording uh on my end. So, uh on my end. So, uh on my end. So, uh that is the reason why uplink is uh that is the reason why uplink is uh that is the reason why uplink is important. Uplink is important. important. Uplink is important. important. Uplink is important. >> Yes. Yes. We have other people on our >> Yes. Yes. We have other people on our >> Yes. Yes. We have other people on our group and our team who I know they have group and our team who I know they have group and our team who I know they have fiber to the home and you would never fiber to the home and you would never fiber to the home and you would never believe it, you know? believe it, you know? believe it, you know? I'm not going to say any names, but I'm not going to say any names, but I'm not going to say any names, but sometimes [laughter] his connection is sometimes [laughter] his connection is sometimes [laughter] his connection is questionable even though he's got fiber questionable even though he's got fiber questionable even though he's got fiber to the home. So. to the home. So. to the home. So. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. You Okay. I don't know. I don't know. You Okay. I don't know. I don't know. You never know if the fiber to your home never know if the fiber to your home never know if the fiber to your home leads to a 288 modem somewhere. leads to a 288 modem somewhere. leads to a 288 modem somewhere. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, you know that picture they You know, you know that picture they You know, you know that picture they always show you that diagram of this always show you that diagram of this always show you that diagram of this castle of this castle of this castle of this blocks or whatever like the whole blocks or whatever like the whole blocks or whatever like the whole internet or all this deal held up by a internet or all this deal held up by a internet or all this deal held up by a little tiny piece, you know? Yeah. You little tiny piece, you know? Yeah. You little tiny piece, you know? Yeah. You see that all the time. They just put see that all the time. They just put see that all the time. They just put different names on it, but you know, different names on it, but you know, different names on it, but you know, that's that's pretty much That's pretty that's that's pretty much That's pretty that's that's pretty much That's pretty much every architecture I've seen is much every architecture I've seen is much every architecture I've seen is It's magnificent except for this one It's magnificent except for this one It's magnificent except for this one little thing.

little thing. little thing. Oh my god. It's holding everything Oh my god. It's holding everything Oh my god. It's holding everything together. Yeah. So, what's up, guys? together. Yeah. So, what's up, guys? together. Yeah. So, what's up, guys? >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> What's up? >> What's up? >> What's up? E London. London London. London 2026. E London. London London. London 2026. E London. London London. London 2026. We went live with our webpage couple We went live with our webpage couple We went live with our webpage couple weeks ago. Yeah. Events are weeks ago. Yeah. Events are weeks ago. Yeah. Events are registrations are coming in. registrations are coming in. registrations are coming in. I actually got in touch contact. We have I actually got in touch contact. We have I actually got in touch contact. We have a cool One of the cool panels we have is a cool One of the cool panels we have is a cool One of the cool panels we have is around the EUAI Act. around the EUAI Act. around the EUAI Act. Oh. Yeah, yeah. So, I've got a EU policy Oh. Yeah, yeah. So, I've got a EU policy Oh. Yeah, yeah. So, I've got a EU policy person coming in to talk about that and person coming in to talk about that and person coming in to talk about that and Yeah, EU policy person coming in to talk Yeah, EU policy person coming in to talk Yeah, EU policy person coming in to talk about that and so, I'm excited about about that and so, I'm excited about about that and so, I'm excited about this stuff. So, that's going to be good. this stuff. So, that's going to be good. this stuff. So, that's going to be good. We've got a crazy cool mixer going on We've got a crazy cool mixer going on We've got a crazy cool mixer going on the June 8th in London. And Playing in the June 8th in London. And Playing in the June 8th in London. And Playing in London, baby. That's right. L O N D O N. London, baby. That's right. L O N D O N. London, baby. That's right. L O N D O N. Uh yeah, so London You know how to do Uh yeah, so London You know how to do Uh yeah, so London You know how to do the Austin Powers accents in the course the Austin Powers accents in the course the Austin Powers accents in the course of Austin Powers. of Austin Powers. of Austin Powers. I was wondering if I should hire like an I was wondering if I should hire like an I was wondering if I should hire like an Austin Powers impersonator. Austin Powers impersonator. Austin Powers impersonator. >> Yes. You got to get one. You Show up at >> Yes. You got to get one. You Show up at >> Yes. You got to get one. You Show up at the show with a band.

I love it. It's a continuum. Yes. London I love it. It's a continuum. Yes. London 2026. Wow, that is a big deal. You know, 2026. Wow, that is a big deal. You know, 2026. Wow, that is a big deal. You know, it's it's it's It was kind of when you said we just It was kind of when you said we just It was kind of when you said we just went live with the webpage, I was went live with the webpage, I was went live with the webpage, I was imagining it was 1995 imagining it was 1995 imagining it was 1995 and that would have been a big deal. We and that would have been a big deal. We and that would have been a big deal. We just went live with a webpage. That's just went live with a webpage. That's just went live with a webpage. That's [laughter] right. On the internet. ON [laughter] right. On the internet. ON [laughter] right. On the internet. ON THE INTERNET. THE INTERNET. THE INTERNET. OH MY GOD. YOU CAN ORDER pizza Domino's OH MY GOD. YOU CAN ORDER pizza Domino's OH MY GOD. YOU CAN ORDER pizza Domino's pizza on the pizza on the pizza on the Oh. And we paid some agency 100,000 Oh. And we paid some agency 100,000 Oh. And we paid some agency 100,000 bucks to build the Yeah, Yeah, my intern just built an entire my intern just built an entire my intern just built an entire multi-layer website in the last 10 multi-layer website in the last 10 multi-layer website in the last 10 minutes using, you know, insert your the minutes using, you know, insert your the minutes using, you know, insert your the name of your app which is just name of your app which is just name of your app which is just you know Oh my gosh. Times have changed. you know Oh my gosh. Times have changed. you know Oh my gosh. Times have changed. Yes. London's going to be And there's Yes. London's going to be And there's Yes. London's going to be And there's also the show called Hardware Pioneers also the show called Hardware Pioneers also the show called Hardware Pioneers Max that week as well. Max that week as well. Max that week as well. So, we're Monday, Tuesday there, So, we're Monday, Tuesday there, So, we're Monday, Tuesday there, Wednesday, Thursday, but apparently it's Wednesday, Thursday, but apparently it's Wednesday, Thursday, but apparently it's like the largest tech show in the UK. like the largest tech show in the UK. like the largest tech show in the UK. So. Oh, wow. That sounds like a big So. Oh, wow. That sounds like a big So. Oh, wow. That sounds like a big deal. That's cool. It's grown over the deal. That's cool. It's grown over the deal. That's cool. It's grown over the past few years and past few years and past few years and so, So it's going to be a lot of fun and so, So it's going to be a lot of fun and so, So it's going to be a lot of fun and we're going to host a big party there.

we're going to host a big party there. we're going to host a big party there. Where are you Where are you Where are you Where is it? You cuz there it is. That Where is it? You cuz there it is. That Where is it? You cuz there it is. That one's at the We're at the Pullman. So one's at the We're at the Pullman. So one's at the We're at the Pullman. So we're a conference. So you know, we're we're a conference. So you know, we're we're a conference. So you know, we're like 4 or 500 people, but the Hardware like 4 or 500 people, but the Hardware like 4 or 500 people, but the Hardware Pioneers Max is huge. It's thousand many Pioneers Max is huge. It's thousand many Pioneers Max is huge. It's thousand many thousands and it's it's it's at some thousands and it's it's it's at some thousands and it's it's it's at some Business Business Innovation Center. Business Business Innovation Center. Business Business Innovation Center. Yeah, something like that. I have to Yeah, something like that. I have to Yeah, something like that. I have to look it up on the on their website, but look it up on the on their website, but look it up on the on their website, but Um but yeah, that's all week. Um but yeah, that's all week. Um but yeah, that's all week. They have a website, too. Oh. Oh, wow. They have a website, too. Oh. Oh, wow. They have a website, too. Oh. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's two websites out there. Yeah, there's two websites out there. Yeah, there's two websites out there. Amazing. Oh my god. Amazing. Oh my god. Amazing. Oh my god. >> the whole week's going to be It's going >> the whole week's going to be It's going >> the whole week's going to be It's going to be a lot of fun. So to be a lot of fun. So to be a lot of fun. So Wow. They probably had to work with Tim Wow. They probably had to work with Tim Wow. They probably had to work with Tim Berners-Lee directly Holy cow. Get that Berners-Lee directly Holy cow. Get that Berners-Lee directly Holy cow. Get that going. Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. The going. Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. The going. Yeah. Yeah, I believe it. The whole FTP was all messed up. Yeah. whole FTP was all messed up. Yeah. whole FTP was all messed up. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Those were the days. Yeah, absolutely. Those were the days. Yeah, absolutely. Those were the days. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. You know, here's the blast from the past You know, here's the blast from the past You know, here's the blast from the past and this wasn't that long ago. Well, and this wasn't that long ago. Well, and this wasn't that long ago. Well, maybe it was. maybe it was. maybe it was. So So So Microsoft has always had this MVP Microsoft has always had this MVP Microsoft has always had this MVP program for people who don't work for program for people who don't work for program for people who don't work for Microsoft, but they do lots of nice Microsoft, but they do lots of nice Microsoft, but they do lots of nice things.

things. things. >> Professional. >> Professional. >> Professional. >> Yeah. Exactly. But to let you But yeah, >> Yeah. Exactly. But to let you But yeah, >> Yeah. Exactly. But to let you But yeah, but and so but and so but and so to become an MVP, you're like an to become an MVP, you're like an to become an MVP, you're like an evangelist, maybe wrote a book, you're evangelist, maybe wrote a book, you're evangelist, maybe wrote a book, you're speaking at conferences or working group speaking at conferences or working group speaking at conferences or working group little groups. Anyway, but back in the little groups. Anyway, but back in the little groups. Anyway, but back in the early '80s early '80s early '80s No. No. Back in the early 2000s, No. No. Back in the early 2000s, No. No. Back in the early 2000s, actually, when the Pocket PC and Windows actually, when the Pocket PC and Windows actually, when the Pocket PC and Windows Mobile was coming alive and the whole Mobile was coming alive and the whole Mobile was coming alive and the whole mobile revolution was starting to happen mobile revolution was starting to happen mobile revolution was starting to happen for Microsoft for Microsoft for Microsoft and to become an MVP, it was all based and to become an MVP, it was all based and to become an MVP, it was all based on newsgroups. on newsgroups. on newsgroups. NNTP. Mhm. This was still a thing in the NNTP. Mhm. This was still a thing in the NNTP. Mhm. This was still a thing in the early 2000s. So early 2000s. So early 2000s. So there were all these newsgroups for there were all these newsgroups for there were all these newsgroups for Windows Mobile, Compact Framework, SQL Windows Mobile, Compact Framework, SQL Windows Mobile, Compact Framework, SQL CE, all these different things CE, all these different things CE, all these different things and your ability to become a Most and your ability to become a Most and your ability to become a Most Valuable Professional was your answering Valuable Professional was your answering Valuable Professional was your answering questions for people on newsgroups and questions for people on newsgroups and questions for people on newsgroups and we had dedicated newsreaders. we had dedicated newsreaders. we had dedicated newsreaders. Some browsers like Netscape included Some browsers like Netscape included Some browsers like Netscape included newsreaders built into the browser. This newsreaders built into the browser. This newsreaders built into the browser. This is I'm taking a lot of people back in is I'm taking a lot of people back in is I'm taking a lot of people back in time here and I know a lot of a lot of time here and I know a lot of a lot of time here and I know a lot of a lot of you young'uns out there like I don't you young'uns out there like I don't you young'uns out there like I don't know what you're saying. What is a know what you're saying. What is a know what you're saying. What is a newsreader? Newsgroups? NNTP? You know, newsreader? Newsgroups? NNTP? You know, newsreader? Newsgroups? NNTP? You know, we're not talking Gopher here. We're we're not talking Gopher here. We're we're not talking Gopher here. We're talking something you know [laughter] talking something you know [laughter] talking something you know [laughter] We're talking something serious. But it We're talking something serious. But it We're talking something serious. But it was in this century people are still was in this century people are still was in this century people are still using NNTP to become an MVP. So anyway, using NNTP to become an MVP. So anyway, using NNTP to become an MVP. So anyway, there you go. There's your little there you go. There's your little there you go. There's your little internet trivia.

internet trivia. internet trivia. That was kind of random. Yeah. Yeah, That was kind of random. Yeah. Yeah, That was kind of random. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty random. That's it. Sorry that was pretty random. That's it. Sorry that was pretty random. That's it. Sorry about that. That must have Did that about that. That must have Did that about that. That must have Did that hurt? Did that hurt? Yeah, it did. No, hurt? Did that hurt? Yeah, it did. No, hurt? Did that hurt? Yeah, it did. No, it was They didn't It was historical. I it was They didn't It was historical. I it was They didn't It was historical. I don't know how educational it was, but don't know how educational it was, but don't know how educational it was, but it was Good context. Good context. it was Good context. Good context. it was Good context. Good context. Context. Just [snorts] so you know, you Context. Just [snorts] so you know, you Context. Just [snorts] so you know, you know I assume they still have that MVP know I assume they still have that MVP know I assume they still have that MVP thing. I don't know. They still have it. thing. I don't know. They still have it. thing. I don't know. They still have it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they did. They still have it and Yeah, they did. They still have it and Yeah, they did. They still have it and they have the cuz I remember seeing a they have the cuz I remember seeing a they have the cuz I remember seeing a bunch of old friends flying to Seattle bunch of old friends flying to Seattle bunch of old friends flying to Seattle for the MVP Summit a few weeks ago. for the MVP Summit a few weeks ago. for the MVP Summit a few weeks ago. Maybe. So I think it's still a thing, I Maybe. So I think it's still a thing, I Maybe. So I think it's still a thing, I guess. Yeah, I remember going to those. guess. Yeah, I remember going to those. guess. Yeah, I remember going to those. There were like thousands of people. I There were like thousands of people. I There were like thousands of people. I don't remember seeing don't remember seeing don't remember seeing incredible It's incredible It's incredible It's I forget which which of the conference I forget which which of the conference I forget which which of the conference units it was in on on campus. It might units it was in on on campus. It might units it was in on on campus. It might be It wasn't in the EBC. It was too It be It wasn't in the EBC. It was too It be It wasn't in the EBC. It was too It was too big for that. The one times they was too big for that. The one times they was too big for that. The one times they were doing it at the convention center were doing it at the convention center were doing it at the convention center downtown. downtown. downtown. And then they would And then they would And then they would And then they would shuttle different And then they would shuttle different And then they would shuttle different you know, you're MVP for particular you know, you're MVP for particular you know, you're MVP for particular product and they would shuttle you to product and they would shuttle you to product and they would shuttle you to maybe the maybe the maybe the offices the buildings for that offices the buildings for that offices the buildings for that particular product group to to get your particular product group to to get your particular product group to to get your briefing to get your NDA briefing so briefing to get your NDA briefing so briefing to get your NDA briefing so that you knew you were special. And that you knew you were special. And that you knew you were special. And you're going to hear what the you know, you're going to hear what the you know, you're going to hear what the you know, and you were going to give that crucial and you were going to give that crucial and you were going to give that crucial feedback to the product managers that feedback to the product managers that feedback to the product managers that was actually going to guide the road was actually going to guide the road was actually going to guide the road map.

map. map. Not. Anyway, but you thought they was. Not. Anyway, but you thought they was. Not. Anyway, but you thought they was. So there you go. So there you go. So there you go. It's It's It's Microsoft about like developer Microsoft about like developer Microsoft about like developer community. I mean it was a bit community. I mean it was a bit community. I mean it was a bit It's It's It's There were There were a couple of There were There were a couple of There were There were a couple of factors I think that kind of brought it factors I think that kind of brought it factors I think that kind of brought it into existence. Not least that you could into existence. Not least that you could into existence. Not least that you could make money by being you know, an make money by being you know, an make money by being you know, an ecosystem partner of Microsoft back in ecosystem partner of Microsoft back in ecosystem partner of Microsoft back in the day before cloud. There was actually the day before cloud. There was actually the day before cloud. There was actually a whole structure that meant you could a whole structure that meant you could a whole structure that meant you could actually make a living. actually make a living. actually make a living. But the kind of exclusivity access, you But the kind of exclusivity access, you But the kind of exclusivity access, you know, that that as a model for how to know, that that as a model for how to know, that that as a model for how to build a developer ecosystem was build a developer ecosystem was build a developer ecosystem was extraordinarily successful. But they extraordinarily successful. But they extraordinarily successful. But they once they stripped away, you know, what once they stripped away, you know, what once they stripped away, you know, what we messed with people's economics by we messed with people's economics by we messed with people's economics by basically trying to take all the money basically trying to take all the money basically trying to take all the money for themselves in the cloud, I think it for themselves in the cloud, I think it for themselves in the cloud, I think it kind of fell apart a little bit. kind of fell apart a little bit. kind of fell apart a little bit. >> Mhm. Well, and also the the decline of the Well, and also the the decline of the Win32 ecosystem really was like Win32 ecosystem really was like Win32 ecosystem really was like why am I why am I why am I attached to this? Yeah, they did. They did. But there's Yeah, they did. They did. But there's less of a community. less of a community. less of a community. It's hard to get a Microsoft specific It's hard to get a Microsoft specific It's hard to get a Microsoft specific community. You know, like as a community community. You know, like as a community community. You know, like as a community person, I can tell you like we have an person, I can tell you like we have an person, I can tell you like we have an Edge AI developer community out there Edge AI developer community out there Edge AI developer community out there that transcends all these platforms.

that transcends all these platforms. that transcends all these platforms. But But But there are still you know, each company there are still you know, each company there are still you know, each company wants to have their own community. Yeah. wants to have their own community. Yeah. wants to have their own community. Yeah. There's a Qualcomm community. There's an There's a Qualcomm community. There's an There's a Qualcomm community. There's an Intel community. Like everybody still Intel community. Like everybody still Intel community. Like everybody still wants their own thing even though a wants their own thing even though a wants their own thing even though a typical developer now is going They're typical developer now is going They're typical developer now is going They're going all over the place. They're at going all over the place. They're at going all over the place. They're at Infineon and NXP and they're doing this Infineon and NXP and they're doing this Infineon and NXP and they're doing this these tools or whatever. So these tools or whatever. So these tools or whatever. So the age of the kind of product specific the age of the kind of product specific the age of the kind of product specific community is a little bit I mean, maybe community is a little bit I mean, maybe community is a little bit I mean, maybe Nvidia CUDA is the last bastion of that. Nvidia CUDA is the last bastion of that. Nvidia CUDA is the last bastion of that. Um but I think Um but I think Um but I think >> still it's still being in frog. That's >> still it's still being in frog. That's >> still it's still being in frog. That's probably probably probably I think it is very clearly understood I think it is very clearly understood I think it is very clearly understood hopefully that IoT industrial IoT hopefully that IoT industrial IoT hopefully that IoT industrial IoT whatever you want to call it is a is a whatever you want to call it is a is a whatever you want to call it is a is a is by definition a jigsaw of is by definition a jigsaw of is by definition a jigsaw of pieces and yet you know, I think pieces and yet you know, I think pieces and yet you know, I think companies understand that and know companies understand that and know companies understand that and know therefore that a you know, homogeneous therefore that a you know, homogeneous therefore that a you know, homogeneous developer ecosystem that spans multiple developer ecosystem that spans multiple developer ecosystem that spans multiple platforms is what is needed. And yet at platforms is what is needed. And yet at platforms is what is needed. And yet at the same time I resist their nature, you the same time I resist their nature, you the same time I resist their nature, you know, it's kind of I I won't name names, know, it's kind of I I won't name names, know, it's kind of I I won't name names, but we had so we had a live stream the but we had so we had a live stream the but we had so we had a live stream the other day if you want to go look at it other day if you want to go look at it other day if you want to go look at it and it was from a company and they're a and it was from a company and they're a and it was from a company and they're a great company and so we they had these great company and so we they had these great company and so we they had these cool tools and they and they their chip cool tools and they and they their chip cool tools and they and they their chip was based on the Ethos U55, I think.

was based on the Ethos U55, I think. was based on the Ethos U55, I think. And I was like, oh, that's cool. I said, And I was like, oh, that's cool. I said, And I was like, oh, that's cool. I said, so can I use this tool for other so can I use this tool for other so can I use this tool for other platforms that use the U55 cuz this is a platforms that use the U55 cuz this is a platforms that use the U55 cuz this is a pretty cool compiler. He's like, no, it pretty cool compiler. He's like, no, it pretty cool compiler. He's like, no, it only works with our chip. And I was only works with our chip. And I was only works with our chip. And I was like, oh. Yeah. Okay. like, oh. Yeah. Okay. like, oh. Yeah. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> Guess that's the end of that >> Guess that's the end of that >> Guess that's the end of that conversation. Excellent. conversation. Excellent. conversation. Excellent. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So I think it's like it's hard because >> So I think it's like it's hard because >> So I think it's like it's hard because there's a gravitational pull from a there's a gravitational pull from a there's a gravitational pull from a business perspective to sort of own the business perspective to sort of own the business perspective to sort of own the developer, but these days the developers developer, but these days the developers developer, but these days the developers need to be need to be need to be you know, going all over the place and you know, going all over the place and you know, going all over the place and using all the tools Yeah, that. That using all the tools Yeah, that. That using all the tools Yeah, that. That that's that's a big one. that's that's a big one. that's that's a big one. >> there's a there's a stunning lack of >> there's a there's a stunning lack of >> there's a there's a stunning lack of awareness sometimes. You think about the awareness sometimes. You think about the awareness sometimes. You think about the companies that are at the root of the companies that are at the root of the companies that are at the root of the forefront of driving all of this. There forefront of driving all of this. There forefront of driving all of this. There is a stunning lack of interpretation of is a stunning lack of interpretation of is a stunning lack of interpretation of what is happening, you know, at the coal what is happening, you know, at the coal what is happening, you know, at the coal face into the broader implication. face into the broader implication. face into the broader implication. You look at HIOT. We've spent the last You look at HIOT. We've spent the last You look at HIOT. We've spent the last 20 years, you know, securing devices at 20 years, you know, securing devices at 20 years, you know, securing devices at the edge. That's been the you know, how the edge. That's been the you know, how the edge. That's been the you know, how do you manage the fleet? How do you do you manage the fleet? How do you do you manage the fleet? How do you deploy it? How do you ensure that deploy it? How do you ensure that deploy it? How do you ensure that nothing bad is happening? And we are now nothing bad is happening? And we are now nothing bad is happening? And we are now busily deploying autonomous agents busily deploying autonomous agents busily deploying autonomous agents across all of them, you know, without across all of them, you know, without across all of them, you know, without actually thinking about the consequences actually thinking about the consequences actually thinking about the consequences of that, you know, you now of that, you know, you now of that, you know, you now And I think the panic you saw with And I think the panic you saw with And I think the panic you saw with Mythos and you know, how do you mean you Mythos and you know, how do you mean you Mythos and you know, how do you mean you can you can build an AI agent that can can you can build an AI agent that can can you can build an AI agent that can systematically find and string together systematically find and string together systematically find and string together flaws in the system that hasn't you flaws in the system that hasn't you flaws in the system that hasn't you know, has never been under that level of know, has never been under that level of know, has never been under that level of onslaught in the park. Really? You know, onslaught in the park. Really? You know, onslaught in the park. Really? You know, it's like, yeah, now we're deploying all it's like, yeah, now we're deploying all it's like, yeah, now we're deploying all of these agents on these edge devices.

of these agents on these edge devices. of these agents on these edge devices. What do you think of that? What do you think of that? What do you think of that? What do you think of that? What do you think of that? What do you think of that? Yeah. It's some kind of sci-fi movie Yeah. It's some kind of sci-fi movie Yeah. It's some kind of sci-fi movie gone wrong. That's what it's going to gone wrong. That's what it's going to gone wrong. That's what it's going to be. Which is like really funny because be. Which is like really funny because be. Which is like really funny because I mean, you can see all this stuff I mean, you can see all this stuff I mean, you can see all this stuff coming, you know? Um coming, you know? Um coming, you know? Um and it's and it's and it's this whole drive to innovate for safety this whole drive to innovate for safety this whole drive to innovate for safety gets [snorts] us into these dilemmas and gets [snorts] us into these dilemmas and gets [snorts] us into these dilemmas and you know, the real power I mean, we've you know, the real power I mean, we've you know, the real power I mean, we've said it so many times on the show. The said it so many times on the show. The said it so many times on the show. The real power of AI is real power of AI is real power of AI is a force multiplying a force multiplying a force multiplying the threat actors and exposing the threat actors and exposing the threat actors and exposing vulnerabilities. I mean, you know, this vulnerabilities. I mean, you know, this vulnerabilities. I mean, you know, this whole Mythos thing is hilarious. You whole Mythos thing is hilarious. You whole Mythos thing is hilarious. You know, oh my god. know, oh my god. know, oh my god. You know, Anthropic created the Doomsday You know, Anthropic created the Doomsday You know, Anthropic created the Doomsday whatever whatever whatever you know, model. You know, you know, model. You know, you know, model. You know, the threat is the threat is the threat is is already there. It's out there right is already there. It's out there right is already there. It's out there right now. You don't need Mythos now. You don't need Mythos now. You don't need Mythos for [ __ ] to go sideways. It's already for [ __ ] to go sideways. It's already for [ __ ] to go sideways. It's already going sideways.

going sideways. going sideways. You know, and You know, and You know, and you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, somebody cited the Economist article somebody cited the Economist article somebody cited the Economist article that came out talking about how you that came out talking about how you that came out talking about how you know, know, know, AI security issue is now becoming a AI security issue is now becoming a AI security issue is now becoming a problem. Like, well, yeah, you're problem. Like, well, yeah, you're problem. Like, well, yeah, you're your report is quite late. your report is quite late. your report is quite late. You know, You know, You know, you should you should you should have reported on this 3 years ago, you have reported on this 3 years ago, you have reported on this 3 years ago, you know? There's people who've been saying know? There's people who've been saying know? There's people who've been saying this and this that this is this will this and this that this is this will this and this that this is this will happen happen happen for a long time. You've been talking to for a long time. You've been talking to for a long time. You've been talking to the wrong people. Yeah. And that's the the wrong people. Yeah. And that's the the wrong people. Yeah. And that's the problem. problem. problem. Is something an unintended consequence Is something an unintended consequence Is something an unintended consequence if it was a predictable outcome of a if it was a predictable outcome of a if it was a predictable outcome of a situation? Can you actually legitimately situation? Can you actually legitimately situation? Can you actually legitimately say, well, yeah, I didn't mean this say, well, yeah, I didn't mean this say, well, yeah, I didn't mean this happened when when you look at the the happened when when you look at the the happened when when you look at the the probability that that outcome happening probability that that outcome happening probability that that outcome happening in a given set of circumstances, it's in a given set of circumstances, it's in a given set of circumstances, it's almost guaranteed. Oh, yeah, yeah. And almost guaranteed. Oh, yeah, yeah. And almost guaranteed. Oh, yeah, yeah. And unintended consequence. It's it's it's unintended consequence. It's it's it's unintended consequence. It's it's it's And it's a technical technically sound And it's a technical technically sound And it's a technical technically sound argument argument argument and and and you you you it's there.

it's there. it's there. All this other crap is hard to prove All this other crap is hard to prove All this other crap is hard to prove that AI is valuable and transformative that AI is valuable and transformative that AI is valuable and transformative at a ridiculous level. at a ridiculous level. at a ridiculous level. You know, like you have all these jokers You know, like you have all these jokers You know, like you have all these jokers out there like out there like out there like you know, they're sharing this um you know, they're sharing this um you know, they're sharing this um meme where they show how meme where they show how meme where they show how um the AI um the AI um the AI guys are guys are guys are taking taking taking trillions of dollars of value trillions of dollars of value trillions of dollars of value and in the AI opportunity and the telcos and in the AI opportunity and the telcos and in the AI opportunity and the telcos are getting like almost nothing, right? are getting like almost nothing, right? are getting like almost nothing, right? That's like That's like That's like the Telco economy versus the the Telco economy versus the the Telco economy versus the the AI economy, right? AI economy is the AI economy, right? AI economy is the AI economy, right? AI economy is whatever a trillion bucks. Excuse me, whatever a trillion bucks. Excuse me, whatever a trillion bucks. Excuse me, did you say the Telco economy? did you say the Telco economy? did you say the Telco economy? Or whatever. Telco Or whatever. Telco Or whatever. Telco Which is which is How do you got How do Which is which is How do you got How do Which is which is How do you got How do you got How do you got How do you got you got How do you got How do you got you got How do you got How do you got sorrow and sympathy for the poor Telcos? sorrow and sympathy for the poor Telcos? sorrow and sympathy for the poor Telcos? Because they have categorically screwed Because they have categorically screwed Because they have categorically screwed it up through every major technology it up through every major technology it up through every major technology iteration. And yet they still managed to iteration. And yet they still managed to iteration. And yet they still managed to make billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah. make billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah. make billions of dollars. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, you know, Cuz everyone still No, I mean, you know, Cuz everyone still No, I mean, you know, Cuz everyone still needs to make phone calls, but that's needs to make phone calls, but that's needs to make phone calls, but that's it.

it. it. That's that. But it's the same economic That's that. But it's the same economic That's that. But it's the same economic model as it was 30 years ago. Right. model as it was 30 years ago. Right. model as it was 30 years ago. Right. I I think they get Yeah, they they get a I I think they get Yeah, they they get a I I think they get Yeah, they they get a bad rap, for sure. bad rap, for sure. bad rap, for sure. But, you know, the thing is is But, you know, the thing is is But, you know, the thing is is uh Deservedly so. uh Deservedly so. uh Deservedly so. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but uh uh uh Yeah, yeah, they're they're actually Yeah, yeah, they're they're actually Yeah, yeah, they're they're actually pretty pretty pretty not very good at not very good at not very good at >> the words. You're going [laughter] to >> the words. You're going [laughter] to >> the words. You're going [laughter] to say the say the say the You're You're going to say the word You're You're going to say the word You're You're going to say the word losers. Uh losers. Uh losers. Uh >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> They had the means of production under >> They had the means of production under >> They had the means of production under 100% control of the the digital economy 100% control of the the digital economy 100% control of the the digital economy or you know, have whatever term you or you know, have whatever term you or you know, have whatever term you choose. They had they owned the pipe. choose. They had they owned the pipe. choose. They had they owned the pipe. You know, and and yet still somehow I You know, and and yet still somehow I You know, and and yet still somehow I mean, I was in Telco at the time when mean, I was in Telco at the time when mean, I was in Telco at the time when the iPhone came out and it was it was the iPhone came out and it was it was the iPhone came out and it was it was like a dreadful realization that with like a dreadful realization that with like a dreadful realization that with the advent of the iPhone, all of the the advent of the iPhone, all of the the advent of the iPhone, all of the worst nightmares of Telcos had come worst nightmares of Telcos had come worst nightmares of Telcos had come real. Everything was over the top and real. Everything was over the top and real. Everything was over the top and the whole claim that we had laid to you the whole claim that we had laid to you the whole claim that we had laid to you know, the data you know, the customers know, the data you know, the customers know, the data you know, the customers the customers were going to consume and the customers were going to consume and the customers were going to consume and the share of wallet we were going to get the share of wallet we were going to get the share of wallet we were going to get that all of that had had had gone away.

that all of that had had had gone away. that all of that had had had gone away. And yet yet again with IoT, they did And yet yet again with IoT, they did And yet yet again with IoT, they did exactly the same thing. Yeah. In the In exactly the same thing. Yeah. In the In exactly the same thing. Yeah. In the In the In an effort to control, it was goes the In an effort to control, it was goes the In an effort to control, it was goes back to what you were saying, Pete. Open back to what you were saying, Pete. Open back to what you were saying, Pete. Open ecosystems, everything's got to work ecosystems, everything's got to work ecosystems, everything's got to work with everything else. The Telcos in an with everything else. The Telcos in an with everything else. The Telcos in an effort to control and constrain to to effort to control and constrain to to effort to control and constrain to to you know, keep hold of their their their you know, keep hold of their their their you know, keep hold of their their their birthright as they saw it, you know, birthright as they saw it, you know, birthright as they saw it, you know, they missed it. You know, the world the they missed it. You know, the world the they missed it. You know, the world the world water found a way. It worked world water found a way. It worked world water found a way. It worked around the Telcos and and around the Telcos and and around the Telcos and and and here we are, you know, that's that's and here we are, you know, that's that's and here we are, you know, that's that's right. That's the pilot owners. right. That's the pilot owners. right. That's the pilot owners. Jeff Goldblum was like right. But again, Jeff Goldblum was like right. But again, Jeff Goldblum was like right. But again, it's found a way. Nature finds a way. it's found a way. Nature finds a way. it's found a way. Nature finds a way. Nature finds a way. Michael Crichton. Nature finds a way. Michael Crichton. Nature finds a way. Michael Crichton. They just went right around them. They just went right around them. They just went right around them. And remember before that, the Telcos And remember before that, the Telcos And remember before that, the Telcos said, we are the cloud. said, we are the cloud. said, we are the cloud. Of course, that's our birthright to be Of course, that's our birthright to be Of course, that's our birthright to be the cloud cuz all the pipes go to us. the cloud cuz all the pipes go to us. the cloud cuz all the pipes go to us. They found a way to screw that one up, They found a way to screw that one up, They found a way to screw that one up, too, didn't they? They said, look at the too, didn't they? They said, look at the too, didn't they? They said, look at the PowerPoint diagram. The cloud, that's PowerPoint diagram. The cloud, that's PowerPoint diagram. The cloud, that's us. We're the head. That's us. That's us. We're the head. That's us. That's us. We're the head. That's us. That's us. Why why don't you understand that? us. Why why don't you understand that? us. Why why don't you understand that? Why is no Did you see all those cables Why is no Did you see all those cables Why is no Did you see all those cables going everywhere and they all lead to going everywhere and they all lead to going everywhere and they all lead to us? We are the cloud. Who are these guys us? We are the cloud. Who are these guys us? We are the cloud. Who are these guys from Seattle? Stop that.

from Seattle? Stop that. from Seattle? Stop that. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, but but they are they are the >> Yeah, but but they are they are the majority of IT spend. They get lion's majority of IT spend. They get lion's majority of IT spend. They get lion's share. So, they are the trillion dollar share. So, they are the trillion dollar share. So, they are the trillion dollar market, whereas AI the AI economy in market, whereas AI the AI economy in market, whereas AI the AI economy in reality, if you were to reality, if you were to reality, if you were to to um categorically be accurate is it's to um categorically be accurate is it's to um categorically be accurate is it's tiny, right? I mean, it and It's People tiny, right? I mean, it and It's People tiny, right? I mean, it and It's People are really talking about is generative are really talking about is generative are really talking about is generative AI and that then that's you know, AI and that then that's you know, AI and that then that's you know, Anthropic and um Anthropic and um Anthropic and um OpenAI and it's like cumulatively, all OpenAI and it's like cumulatively, all OpenAI and it's like cumulatively, all these guys are maybe about at best like these guys are maybe about at best like these guys are maybe about at best like 80, 90 billion. 80, 90 billion. 80, 90 billion. Versus a trillion. Versus a trillion. Versus a trillion. I don't I you know, It's Silicon. I don't I you know, It's Silicon. I don't I you know, It's Silicon. Okay, so you're double counting, too. Okay, so you're double counting, too. Okay, so you're double counting, too. You're double Talking about who's got You're double Talking about who's got You're double Talking about who's got the money. the money. the money. All right, so is it All right, so is it All right, so is it as my friend Steve Jenness would remind as my friend Steve Jenness would remind as my friend Steve Jenness would remind me, he's like, is it 1850 again? Is this me, he's like, is it 1850 again? Is this me, he's like, is it 1850 again? Is this a gold rush? Or is it a gold rush around a gold rush? Or is it a gold rush around a gold rush? Or is it a gold rush around AI? And who's making the picks and AI? And who's making the picks and AI? And who's making the picks and shovels who in the end are going to be shovels who in the end are going to be shovels who in the end are going to be the only ones who made money while all the only ones who made money while all the only ones who made money while all the other people are rushing for gold?

the other people are rushing for gold? the other people are rushing for gold? But you see what's happening with the But you see what's happening with the But you see what's happening with the semiconductor stocks? No, Jensen. They semiconductor stocks? No, Jensen. They semiconductor stocks? No, Jensen. They make the picks and shovels. They make make the picks and shovels. They make make the picks and shovels. They make the picks and shovels, right? Right. You the picks and shovels, right? Right. You the picks and shovels, right? Right. You know, Jensen makes Levi's. know, Jensen makes Levi's. know, Jensen makes Levi's. Right? All these other players who does Right? All these other players who does Right? All these other players who does Levi's? Levi's? Levi's? All these other players who are going All these other players who are going All these other players who are going after the gold, this AI gold, this after the gold, this AI gold, this after the gold, this AI gold, this software, this thing, you know, software, this thing, you know, software, this thing, you know, it's not going to work out for all of it's not going to work out for all of it's not going to work out for all of them. But along the way, a bunch of them. But along the way, a bunch of them. But along the way, a bunch of people got paid along the way, even people got paid along the way, even people got paid along the way, even though even though we may see, you know, though even though we may see, you know, though even though we may see, you know, massive bankruptcies in the future for massive bankruptcies in the future for massive bankruptcies in the future for other players who are you know, panning other players who are you know, panning other players who are you know, panning for gold. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah, I mean, for gold. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah, I mean, for gold. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, you mentioned earlier the web you know, you mentioned earlier the web you know, you mentioned earlier the web web you know, the web development guys, web you know, the web development guys, web you know, the web development guys, you know, you have a website and you you know, you have a website and you you know, you have a website and you paid 100 paid 100 paid 100 100,000 dollars for it. That was like 100,000 dollars for it. That was like 100,000 dollars for it. That was like what? Sapient? There was companies like what? Sapient? There was companies like what? Sapient? There was companies like Sapient and Sapient and Sapient and Razorfish and you know, those guys made Razorfish and you know, those guys made Razorfish and you know, those guys made some good money for a little while and some good money for a little while and some good money for a little while and then they became completely irrelevant, then they became completely irrelevant, then they became completely irrelevant, you know, they got folded into marketing you know, they got folded into marketing you know, they got folded into marketing design and now they're part of you know, design and now they're part of you know, design and now they're part of you know, marketing properties. And you know, they marketing properties. And you know, they marketing properties. And you know, they get double counted, right? Into get double counted, right? Into get double counted, right? Into you know, whoever thought that you know, you know, whoever thought that you know, you know, whoever thought that you know, be this whole web design and web be this whole web design and web be this whole web design and web development market is going to be sort development market is going to be sort development market is going to be sort of like what everyone's imagining with of like what everyone's imagining with of like what everyone's imagining with AI stuff.

AI stuff. AI stuff. It ends up becoming just a you know, It ends up becoming just a you know, It ends up becoming just a you know, a light a light a light augmenting augmenting augmenting layer of stuff in the economy. It's not layer of stuff in the economy. It's not layer of stuff in the economy. It's not the economy. It doesn't create trillions the economy. It doesn't create trillions the economy. It doesn't create trillions of dollars of of dollars of of dollars of benefit and benefit and benefit and you know, you know, you know, GDP expansion globally. It doesn't do GDP expansion globally. It doesn't do GDP expansion globally. It doesn't do any of that [ __ ] right? It actually any of that [ __ ] right? It actually any of that [ __ ] right? It actually just becomes marketing. just becomes marketing. just becomes marketing. You know, So, is just all the all the You know, So, is just all the all the You know, So, is just all the all the capex infrastructure is the Are those capex infrastructure is the Are those capex infrastructure is the Are those the picks and shovels? The data centers, the picks and shovels? The data centers, the picks and shovels? The data centers, the the the Well, obviously we always talked about Well, obviously we always talked about Well, obviously we always talked about during the dot-com thing, all the all during the dot-com thing, all the all during the dot-com thing, all the all the fiber, right? the fiber, right? the fiber, right? We laid a lot of fiber and we thought, We laid a lot of fiber and we thought, We laid a lot of fiber and we thought, oh crap, that was a waste of time. We oh crap, that was a waste of time. We oh crap, that was a waste of time. We ended up using the fiber later. ended up using the fiber later. ended up using the fiber later. Uh and just not in that moment. Um but Uh and just not in that moment. Um but Uh and just not in that moment. Um but yeah, maybe The problem is is the the yeah, maybe The problem is is the the yeah, maybe The problem is is the the economics. So, yeah, I think state economics. So, yeah, I think state economics. So, yeah, I think state anything in the data center, whether anything in the data center, whether anything in the data center, whether it's active copper cable, GPU, rack it's active copper cable, GPU, rack it's active copper cable, GPU, rack cooling, you know, anything that there's cooling, you know, anything that there's cooling, you know, anything that there's a massive demand and a shortfall there. a massive demand and a shortfall there. a massive demand and a shortfall there. I mean, you can't buy memory at the I mean, you can't buy memory at the I mean, you can't buy memory at the moment for any money. Well, that's true.

moment for any money. Well, that's true. moment for any money. Well, that's true. They're making There's a lot of money to They're making There's a lot of money to They're making There's a lot of money to be made there, but the be made there, but the be made there, but the economics will go there. I was talking economics will go there. I was talking economics will go there. I was talking to someone this week who said that they to someone this week who said that they to someone this week who said that they but their token budget, so they're used but their token budget, so they're used but their token budget, so they're used they're using AI code gen extensively in they're using AI code gen extensively in they're using AI code gen extensively in their company. So, I you know, the their company. So, I you know, the their company. So, I you know, the amount of money that I'm spending on amount of money that I'm spending on amount of money that I'm spending on tokens at the moment is the equivalent tokens at the moment is the equivalent tokens at the moment is the equivalent of three or four full-time high quality of three or four full-time high quality of three or four full-time high quality engineers. And you know, I don't get the engineers. And you know, I don't get the engineers. And you know, I don't get the context of the conversation was around context of the conversation was around context of the conversation was around AI governance and it's like, well, but I AI governance and it's like, well, but I AI governance and it's like, well, but I would know that if I was employing those would know that if I was employing those would know that if I was employing those engineers, the likelihood of some engineers, the likelihood of some engineers, the likelihood of some significant vulnerability being significant vulnerability being significant vulnerability being introduced or at least one that I introduced or at least one that I introduced or at least one that I couldn't explain is relatively low. couldn't explain is relatively low. couldn't explain is relatively low. Whereas with the money I'm spending Whereas with the money I'm spending Whereas with the money I'm spending Yeah, I'm moving at a proper 10 times Yeah, I'm moving at a proper 10 times Yeah, I'm moving at a proper 10 times the speed because my AI can do what that the speed because my AI can do what that the speed because my AI can do what that team of four would do in a month in a team of four would do in a month in a team of four would do in a month in a day. day. day. But you know, that that the cost But you know, that that the cost But you know, that that the cost equivalent coupled with the incremental equivalent coupled with the incremental equivalent coupled with the incremental risk is like, you know, I don't know risk is like, you know, I don't know risk is like, you know, I don't know what's going to I don't know what's what's going to I don't know what's what's going to I don't know what's going to happen next. going to happen next. going to happen next. Yeah, you either you either um you know, Yeah, you either you either um you know, Yeah, you either you either um you know, you either uh pass on that risk by not you either uh pass on that risk by not you either uh pass on that risk by not addressing it in by compromising addressing it in by compromising addressing it in by compromising quality, right? You just let [ __ ] uh you quality, right? You just let [ __ ] uh you quality, right? You just let [ __ ] uh you know, you go MVP, right? Whatever.

know, you go MVP, right? Whatever. know, you go MVP, right? Whatever. You just throw [ __ ] up against the wall You just throw [ __ ] up against the wall You just throw [ __ ] up against the wall and see whether or not you you know, and see whether or not you you know, and see whether or not you you know, don't get sued. don't get sued. don't get sued. Uh or uh be asked for a refund. Uh or uh be asked for a refund. Uh or uh be asked for a refund. Uh or you know, um Yeah, I and so it what you what you're Yeah, I and so it what you what you're starting to realize even with the starting to realize even with the starting to realize even with the agentic stuff agentic stuff is all agentic stuff agentic stuff is all agentic stuff agentic stuff is all becoming program You know, I was at becoming program You know, I was at becoming program You know, I was at Cadence. There's this one slide that um Cadence. There's this one slide that um Cadence. There's this one slide that um Paul Cunningham who is leading the whole Paul Cunningham who is leading the whole Paul Cunningham who is leading the whole agentic thing at um agentic thing at um agentic thing at um he's a CTO. He's leading the whole he's a CTO. He's leading the whole he's a CTO. He's leading the whole agentic push at Cadence. He has one agentic push at Cadence. He has one agentic push at Cadence. He has one slide in the bottom says, slide in the bottom says, slide in the bottom says, uh agents will require millions of lines uh agents will require millions of lines uh agents will require millions of lines of code. And it is these guys spent the whole And it is these guys spent the whole time when they're talking about agents, time when they're talking about agents, time when they're talking about agents, they well, you know, they well, you know, they well, you know, uh when you code the agent, I'm like, uh when you code the agent, I'm like, uh when you code the agent, I'm like, wait a minute. wait a minute. wait a minute. Code the agent? Code the agent? Code the agent? Why do you guys keep saying that? Why do you guys keep saying that? Why do you guys keep saying that? And of course, I I knew the answer, but And of course, I I knew the answer, but And of course, I I knew the answer, but they go, well, you know, this is all they go, well, you know, this is all they go, well, you know, this is all like harness and scaffolding and stuff like harness and scaffolding and stuff like harness and scaffolding and stuff like that. And you know, this is all like that. And you know, this is all like that. And you know, this is all like code.

And so, And so, the these things are just becoming the these things are just becoming the these things are just becoming uh you know, spot automations where uh you know, spot automations where uh you know, spot automations where you're going to now you're going to now you're going to now typically at a task level, right? So, typically at a task level, right? So, typically at a task level, right? So, when you look at chip design and when you look at chip design and when you look at chip design and verification, these things can be very verification, these things can be very verification, these things can be very very useful when you're looking at very useful when you're looking at very useful when you're looking at particular task or step in verification particular task or step in verification particular task or step in verification and you can force multiply and so you and you can force multiply and so you and you can force multiply and so you you know, that particular task so you you know, that particular task so you you know, that particular task so you can deal with can deal with can deal with exponentially growing complexity, right? exponentially growing complexity, right? exponentially growing complexity, right? So, if you look at advanced packaging, So, if you look at advanced packaging, So, if you look at advanced packaging, you look at chip design, you know, as you look at chip design, you know, as you look at chip design, you know, as things are going to let's say gate all things are going to let's say gate all things are going to let's say gate all around. I don't know if you guys have around. I don't know if you guys have around. I don't know if you guys have seen seen seen a a tran a a a tran a a a tran a you know, gate all around transistor. you know, gate all around transistor. you know, gate all around transistor. It It's freaking ridiculous. And the It It's freaking ridiculous. And the It It's freaking ridiculous. And the number of steps number of steps number of steps additional steps is you're going from additional steps is you're going from additional steps is you're going from like 1,000 to 3,000, like 1,000 to 3,000, like 1,000 to 3,000, right? In manufacturing these right? In manufacturing these right? In manufacturing these these chips based on these chips based on these chips based on you know, gate all around. you know, gate all around. you know, gate all around. This is not going to reduce the number This is not going to reduce the number This is not going to reduce the number of people people you need. It increases of people people you need. It increases of people people you need. It increases the risk because of the complexity and the risk because of the complexity and the risk because of the complexity and you need these tools to even be able to you need these tools to even be able to you need these tools to even be able to approach approach approach this level of complexity and on the this level of complexity and on the this level of complexity and on the other end, deal with that risk and pass other end, deal with that risk and pass other end, deal with that risk and pass it on to your customers as [ __ ] it on to your customers as [ __ ] it on to your customers as [ __ ] products.

products. products. You know? And this one of the things You know? And this one of the things You know? And this one of the things that I noticed as completely missing in that I noticed as completely missing in that I noticed as completely missing in almost every talk track is [ __ ] almost every talk track is [ __ ] almost every talk track is [ __ ] quality. Who gives a [ __ ] about quality quality. Who gives a [ __ ] about quality quality. Who gives a [ __ ] about quality anymore? No one does. anymore? No one does. anymore? No one does. No one ever talks about we have No one ever talks about we have No one ever talks about we have excellence in excellence and quality. excellence in excellence and quality. excellence in excellence and quality. Everyone just talks about hey, let's Everyone just talks about hey, let's Everyone just talks about hey, let's just push [ __ ] out the door as quickly just push [ __ ] out the door as quickly just push [ __ ] out the door as quickly as possible. That's as possible. That's as possible. That's >> Well, dear, I mean I think Leonard >> Well, dear, I mean I think Leonard >> Well, dear, I mean I think Leonard you're hitting on something interesting you're hitting on something interesting you're hitting on something interesting that there is like in order to keep up that there is like in order to keep up that there is like in order to keep up with the increasing complexity, with the increasing complexity, with the increasing complexity, you know, this is where AI and agentic you know, this is where AI and agentic you know, this is where AI and agentic AI is going to help people keep pace. So AI is going to help people keep pace. So AI is going to help people keep pace. So there I think there's a framework I there I think there's a framework I there I think there's a framework I think there's a little bit of a myth. I think there's a little bit of a myth. I think there's a little bit of a myth. I mean, I think if you look at the mean, I think if you look at the mean, I think if you look at the the data on GDP growth rate versus labor the data on GDP growth rate versus labor the data on GDP growth rate versus labor market growth rate, right? GDP growth market growth rate, right? GDP growth market growth rate, right? GDP growth rate far outpaces the labor. So there's rate far outpaces the labor. So there's rate far outpaces the labor. So there's this increasing gap between this increasing gap between this increasing gap between Yeah, output and and labor available. Yeah, output and and labor available. Yeah, output and and labor available. And it's going to get worse and worse. And it's going to get worse and worse. And it's going to get worse and worse. Actually, we talked about this in San Actually, we talked about this in San Actually, we talked about this in San Diego, too, which is why physical AI is Diego, too, which is why physical AI is Diego, too, which is why physical AI is going to be important as well because we going to be important as well because we going to be important as well because we don't have enough people to keep up with don't have enough people to keep up with don't have enough people to keep up with the pace and the complexity. There the pace and the complexity. There the pace and the complexity. There aren't enough So aren't enough So aren't enough So even though there is a little bit of a even though there is a little bit of a even though there is a little bit of a doom thing about people losing their doom thing about people losing their doom thing about people losing their jobs. Actually, we don't have enough jobs. Actually, we don't have enough jobs. Actually, we don't have enough people to do the jobs to keep up. Yes.

people to do the jobs to keep up. Yes. people to do the jobs to keep up. Yes. 15 years. And so that's why that's where 15 years. And so that's why that's where 15 years. And so that's why that's where AI is going to need to come in. You're AI is going to need to come in. You're AI is going to need to come in. You're right, it has to be done at the right right, it has to be done at the right right, it has to be done at the right quality level. So it's not like we're quality level. So it's not like we're quality level. So it's not like we're going to fire everyone and just use AI. going to fire everyone and just use AI. going to fire everyone and just use AI. It's more like we need AI just to keep It's more like we need AI just to keep It's more like we need AI just to keep up with the growth rate. And in fact, up with the growth rate. And in fact, up with the growth rate. And in fact, especially in the physical jobs, especially in the physical jobs, especially in the physical jobs, there is a significant tens of millions there is a significant tens of millions there is a significant tens of millions maybe hundreds of millions of missed maybe hundreds of millions of missed maybe hundreds of millions of missed workers over the next 15 years workers over the next 15 years workers over the next 15 years worldwide, right? I mean, some regions worldwide, right? I mean, some regions worldwide, right? I mean, some regions have it a lot worse than the US. So have it a lot worse than the US. So have it a lot worse than the US. So that's where we think about AI sort of that's where we think about AI sort of that's where we think about AI sort of filling that labor gap over time. But filling that labor gap over time. But filling that labor gap over time. But the problem is deployment though. You the problem is deployment though. You the problem is deployment though. You know, in a lot of the things around know, in a lot of the things around know, in a lot of the things around governance and everything else that governance and everything else that governance and everything else that needs to be placed there. So I would needs to be placed there. So I would needs to be placed there. So I would spend a lot of time at the moment spend a lot of time at the moment spend a lot of time at the moment talking to startups in this space and talking to startups in this space and talking to startups in this space and you know, when we're doing diligence you know, when we're doing diligence you know, when we're doing diligence their customers, you know, the value of their customers, you know, the value of their customers, you know, the value of AI isn't the model. I mean, if if your AI isn't the model. I mean, if if your AI isn't the model. I mean, if if your AI doesn't control anything, it's it's AI doesn't control anything, it's it's AI doesn't control anything, it's it's basically just analytics with with basically just analytics with with basically just analytics with with better marketing. I mean, the value the better marketing. I mean, the value the better marketing. I mean, the value the value of an AI model in an industrial value of an AI model in an industrial value of an AI model in an industrial context is what changes in the physical context is what changes in the physical context is what changes in the physical world. And so I think I what I see at world. And so I think I what I see at world. And so I think I what I see at the moment is that is an an increasing the moment is that is an an increasing the moment is that is an an increasing gulf between the perceived value of AI, gulf between the perceived value of AI, gulf between the perceived value of AI, which is the promise and the potential, which is the promise and the potential, which is the promise and the potential, and the actual value of AI, which is and the actual value of AI, which is and the actual value of AI, which is well, people aren't really deploying well, people aren't really deploying well, people aren't really deploying this into mission-critical systems this into mission-critical systems this into mission-critical systems because there are just some fundamental because there are just some fundamental because there are just some fundamental hygiene factors that haven't been hygiene factors that haven't been hygiene factors that haven't been addressed. Loving it into the real world addressed. Loving it into the real world addressed. Loving it into the real world as quickly as you can. Now, you know, as quickly as you can. Now, you know, as quickly as you can. Now, you know, horrible things have happened in the horrible things have happened in the horrible things have happened in the consumer space with connected devices consumer space with connected devices consumer space with connected devices for sure. But for sure. But for sure. But someone hacking the Echo in my kids' someone hacking the Echo in my kids' someone hacking the Echo in my kids' bedroom is an order of magnitude

bedroom is an order of magnitude bedroom is an order of magnitude difference from someone hacking the difference from someone hacking the difference from someone hacking the controls infrastructure within an controls infrastructure within an controls infrastructure within an electricity electricity grid. You know, electricity electricity grid. You know, electricity electricity grid. You know, yes, there are consequences to the yes, there are consequences to the yes, there are consequences to the first, but the latter is, you know, first, but the latter is, you know, first, but the latter is, you know, there are existential risks. And because there are existential risks. And because there are existential risks. And because people are not True. addressing those people are not True. addressing those people are not True. addressing those issues, the gap of deployment is these issues, the gap of deployment is these issues, the gap of deployment is these things are not getting deployed and things are not getting deployed and things are not getting deployed and therefore the value is not being therefore the value is not being therefore the value is not being realized in the real world. And I think realized in the real world. And I think realized in the real world. And I think Yes. if anything's going to come Yes. if anything's going to come Yes. if anything's going to come crashing down, the GPU manufacturers and crashing down, the GPU manufacturers and crashing down, the GPU manufacturers and the silicon guys are going to be fine. the silicon guys are going to be fine. the silicon guys are going to be fine. The economic model that Anthropic and The economic model that Anthropic and The economic model that Anthropic and others are facing of cost is one thing, others are facing of cost is one thing, others are facing of cost is one thing, but the myth starts falling apart when but the myth starts falling apart when but the myth starts falling apart when that value isn't delivered because Yeah. that value isn't delivered because Yeah. that value isn't delivered because Yeah. because we didn't do the basic things because we didn't do the basic things because we didn't do the basic things that we we've known that we needed to that we we've known that we needed to that we we've known that we needed to >> Well, there is that AI fatigue going on >> Well, there is that AI fatigue going on >> Well, there is that AI fatigue going on where where where people are seeing AI attached to things people are seeing AI attached to things people are seeing AI attached to things that shouldn't be. Who's that that shoe that shouldn't be. Who's that that shoe that shouldn't be. Who's that that shoe company, right? company, right? company, right? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Allbirds. Allbirds. >> Allbirds. Allbirds. >> Allbirds. Allbirds. I actually have some Allbirds. I just I actually have some Allbirds. I just I actually have some Allbirds. I just bought a few I just bought a pair a few bought a few I just bought a pair a few bought a few I just bought a pair a few months ago. I feel like I bought the months ago. I feel like I bought the months ago. I feel like I bought the last pair. last pair. last pair. >> Yeah, you did. You did. >> Yeah, you did. You did. >> Yeah, you did. You did. >> Oh my god. No wonder they were on sale.

>> Oh my god. No wonder they were on sale. >> Oh my god. No wonder they were on sale. I was like, why is there no one in the I was like, why is there no one in the I was like, why is there no one in the store? You know. Yeah. But you know, the store? You know. Yeah. But you know, the store? You know. Yeah. But you know, the event horizon I think when it come when event horizon I think when it come when event horizon I think when it come when Allbirds turns into an AI infrastructure Allbirds turns into an AI infrastructure Allbirds turns into an AI infrastructure business, I was like They had they had a business, I was like They had they had a business, I was like They had they had a shop at University Village that was shop at University Village that was shop at University Village that was quite empty, but Yes, that's right. quite empty, but Yes, that's right. quite empty, but Yes, that's right. [laughter] That's where I bought mine a [laughter] That's where I bought mine a [laughter] That's where I bought mine a few years few years few years ago. Yeah. I was the only ago. Yeah. I was the only ago. Yeah. I was the only I was the only customer there and and um I was the only customer there and and um I was the only customer there and and um I guess I bought You know, when you're I guess I bought You know, when you're I guess I bought You know, when you're when you're assembling your venture when you're assembling your venture when you're assembling your venture capitalist uniform that goes along with capitalist uniform that goes along with capitalist uniform that goes along with your Patagonia vest, you got to have your Patagonia vest, you got to have your Patagonia vest, you got to have your Allbirds. You got to have it. Yeah, your Allbirds. You got to have it. Yeah, your Allbirds. You got to have it. Yeah, the the the puffy vest, the Allbirds. I mean, you puffy vest, the Allbirds. I mean, you puffy vest, the Allbirds. I mean, you know. know. know. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, I mean, but >> Yeah, I mean, but >> Yeah, I mean, but >> What's going on, Bill? What's up, Bill? >> What's going on, Bill? What's up, Bill? >> What's going on, Bill? What's up, Bill? Hey guys, what's up, Bill? Hanging. I'm Hey guys, what's up, Bill? Hanging. I'm Hey guys, what's up, Bill? Hanging. I'm just I'm just listening to you guys talk just I'm just listening to you guys talk just I'm just listening to you guys talk about the the the bro code outfit. about the the the bro code outfit. about the the the bro code outfit. Bill's got Bill's got an interesting Bill's got Bill's got an interesting Bill's got Bill's got an interesting T-shirt on that I can just barely see T-shirt on that I can just barely see T-shirt on that I can just barely see the top of. the top of. the top of. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, look at that. Holy mackerel, that looks look at that. Holy mackerel, that looks look at that. Holy mackerel, that looks like like like >> Hey man, last last week was FAFO >> Hey man, last last week was FAFO >> Hey man, last last week was FAFO episode. Did you see it? The epidemic? episode. Did you see it? The epidemic? episode. Did you see it? The epidemic? Absolutely. Yeah. Debbie Debbie was Absolutely. Yeah. Debbie Debbie was Absolutely. Yeah. Debbie Debbie was Debbie was awesome.

Debbie was awesome. Debbie was awesome. I mean, look, we this is F and F O I mean, look, we this is F and F O I mean, look, we this is F and F O Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. >> Yeah, it's that. The culmination of all >> Yeah, it's that. The culmination of all >> Yeah, it's that. The culmination of all this week's [ __ ] just come home this week's [ __ ] just come home this week's [ __ ] just come home [laughter] to rest. [laughter] to rest. [laughter] to rest. Come home to rest on Friday where Come home to rest on Friday where Come home to rest on Friday where we rip it up and and redisseminate we rip it up and and redisseminate we rip it up and and redisseminate what's useful. Yeah. There you go. what's useful. Yeah. There you go. what's useful. Yeah. There you go. Uh Isn't it interesting how people are Uh Isn't it interesting how people are Uh Isn't it interesting how people are just suckers? I mean, Allbirds just just suckers? I mean, Allbirds just just suckers? I mean, Allbirds just announces we're now an AI company and announces we're now an AI company and announces we're now an AI company and their stock goes up eight or 900 points. their stock goes up eight or 900 points. their stock goes up eight or 900 points. And then they then they decide, oh wait And then they then they decide, oh wait And then they then they decide, oh wait a minute, no, we're not. Keep that a minute, no, we're not. Keep that a minute, no, we're not. Keep that money. Let's go. money. Let's go. money. Let's go. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, and then people find out that it's >> Yeah, and then people find out that it's >> Yeah, and then people find out that it's all BS and then it drops 800 points the all BS and then it drops 800 points the all BS and then it drops 800 points the next day, you I mean, this is like where next day, you I mean, this is like where next day, you I mean, this is like where we were with NFTs, right? It's the same we were with NFTs, right? It's the same we were with NFTs, right? It's the same state of state of state of >> It's a JPEG. [laughter] >> It's a JPEG. [laughter] >> It's a JPEG. [laughter] silliness. Yeah, I know. And I'm going silliness. Yeah, I know. And I'm going silliness. Yeah, I know. And I'm going to pay a million dollars for it. But I to pay a million dollars for it. But I to pay a million dollars for it. But I own this JPEG and it's on the it's on own this JPEG and it's on the it's on own this JPEG and it's on the it's on the the the blockchain so it's legit.

blockchain so it's legit. blockchain so it's legit. It's Picasso on a JPEG. It's Picasso on a JPEG. It's Picasso on a JPEG. >> this is what people need to do. If you >> this is what people need to do. If you >> this is what people need to do. If you were bought into that stuff, you need to were bought into that stuff, you need to were bought into that stuff, you need to go back and watch the videos of, you go back and watch the videos of, you go back and watch the videos of, you know, watch Bloomberg, CNBC, and how know, watch Bloomberg, CNBC, and how know, watch Bloomberg, CNBC, and how many many many serious conversations people were having serious conversations people were having serious conversations people were having about absolute about absolute about absolute [ __ ] They should have been smart [ __ ] They should have been smart [ __ ] They should have been smart enough to figure it out and not take enough to figure it out and not take enough to figure it out and not take this stuff seriously. And this just goes this stuff seriously. And this just goes this stuff seriously. And this just goes to show how stupid people can be. And to show how stupid people can be. And to show how stupid people can be. And you know, you know, you know, as as blockchain as as blockchain as as blockchain As Kathy always says, people are stupid. As Kathy always says, people are stupid. As Kathy always says, people are stupid. Yeah, they are. You're freaking Yeah, they are. You're freaking Yeah, they are. You're freaking >> Turns out it's true. Yeah. And including >> Turns out it's true. Yeah. And including >> Turns out it's true. Yeah. And including all the smart analysts on CNBC, right? all the smart analysts on CNBC, right? all the smart analysts on CNBC, right? Yeah. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I mean, >> I mean, >> I mean, yeah, they should go and watch yeah, they should go and watch yeah, they should go and watch themselves and remind I mean, you know, themselves and remind I mean, you know, themselves and remind I mean, you know, let's let's face it. The There has to be let's let's face it. The There has to be let's let's face it. The There has to be some force that pushes society to some force that pushes society to some force that pushes society to continue to to improve. And part of that continue to to improve. And part of that continue to to improve. And part of that should be being a little bit ashamed for should be being a little bit ashamed for should be being a little bit ashamed for being stupid, right? There's nothing being stupid, right? There's nothing being stupid, right? There's nothing wrong with being ignorant, right? You wrong with being ignorant, right? You wrong with being ignorant, right? You can always learn. It's just don't be can always learn. It's just don't be can always learn. It's just don't be stupid. Stupid is not a virtue.

stupid. Stupid is not a virtue. stupid. Stupid is not a virtue. Ignorance is a neutral thing. You can Ignorance is a neutral thing. You can Ignorance is a neutral thing. You can solve that. solve that. solve that. >> you're Now you're demanding that if they >> you're Now you're demanding that if they >> you're Now you're demanding that if they know better, they should do better. know better, they should do better. know better, they should do better. Mhm. I mean, that's a tall order. Sounds Mhm. I mean, that's a tall order. Sounds Mhm. I mean, that's a tall order. Sounds like another T-shirt. like another T-shirt. like another T-shirt. You [laughter] You [laughter] You [laughter] can call me cynical, but I do I agree can call me cynical, but I do I agree can call me cynical, but I do I agree the herd the herd the vast majority of the herd the herd the vast majority of the herd the herd the vast majority of human beings are really dumb. But the human beings are really dumb. But the human beings are really dumb. But the herd of the herd follow, you know, the herd of the herd follow, you know, the herd of the herd follow, you know, the analysts that you mentioned. analysts that you mentioned. analysts that you mentioned. The market exists on volatility. The market exists on volatility. The market exists on volatility. And so if there's nothing driving And so if there's nothing driving And so if there's nothing driving volatility, then there's no up and down, volatility, then there's no up and down, volatility, then there's no up and down, there's no upside to trade, there's no there's no upside to trade, there's no there's no upside to trade, there's no downside to trade. So the market has an downside to trade. So the market has an downside to trade. So the market has an invested interest in seeking out drivers invested interest in seeking out drivers invested interest in seeking out drivers of volatility and talking them up, of volatility and talking them up, of volatility and talking them up, maximizing the impact, and then maximizing the impact, and then maximizing the impact, and then following them on the way down again. following them on the way down again. following them on the way down again. And every single technology trend that And every single technology trend that And every single technology trend that you could possibly point to follows you could possibly point to follows you could possibly point to follows exactly that. There are lots of people exactly that. There are lots of people exactly that. There are lots of people in the analyst community who know that, in the analyst community who know that, in the analyst community who know that, you know, and in the and in the industry you know, and in the and in the industry you know, and in the and in the industry and stuff like that, who know that and stuff like that, who know that and stuff like that, who know that ultimately a lot of house cards is going ultimately a lot of house cards is going ultimately a lot of house cards is going to fall down.

to fall down. to fall down. But it serves a very specific set of But it serves a very specific set of But it serves a very specific set of purposes, raising money and and purposes, raising money and and purposes, raising money and and making money to talk things up knowing making money to talk things up knowing making money to talk things up knowing that they're going to come crashing that they're going to come crashing that they're going to come crashing down. Now, I did that. When they come down. Now, I did that. When they come down. Now, I did that. When they come crashing down, hopefully you've got crashing down, hopefully you've got crashing down, hopefully you've got another ace in the back pocket that another ace in the back pocket that another ace in the back pocket that actually is going to, you know, solve actually is going to, you know, solve actually is going to, you know, solve some of the problem. Yeah, but that some of the problem. Yeah, but that some of the problem. Yeah, but that Yeah, and it causes bubbles and we have Yeah, and it causes bubbles and we have Yeah, and it causes bubbles and we have to remember bubbles are basically a to remember bubbles are basically a to remember bubbles are basically a misallocation of capital due to mis and misallocation of capital due to mis and misallocation of capital due to mis and and the reason Okay, so going back to and the reason Okay, so going back to and the reason Okay, so going back to this whole lack of discourse around this whole lack of discourse around this whole lack of discourse around quality and excellence, right? Integrity quality and excellence, right? Integrity quality and excellence, right? Integrity is another thing that we're losing is another thing that we're losing is another thing that we're losing completely. And there's a whole there's completely. And there's a whole there's completely. And there's a whole there's a whole mechanism that's been developed a whole mechanism that's been developed a whole mechanism that's been developed over the year years, right? Whether it's over the year years, right? Whether it's over the year years, right? Whether it's like, you know, creating the proper like, you know, creating the proper like, you know, creating the proper governance for operating markets or uh governance for operating markets or uh governance for operating markets or uh supporting markets, those those have supporting markets, those those have supporting markets, those those have been withered away with deregulation, been withered away with deregulation, been withered away with deregulation, right? Glass-Steagall is the number one right? Glass-Steagall is the number one right? Glass-Steagall is the number one victim, right? We don't have victim, right? We don't have victim, right? We don't have Glass-Steagall anymore. So now, you Glass-Steagall anymore. So now, you Glass-Steagall anymore. So now, you know, investment banks can now commingle know, investment banks can now commingle know, investment banks can now commingle with commercial banks and now there's with commercial banks and now there's with commercial banks and now there's this potential to create all these super this potential to create all these super this potential to create all these super toxic assets on top of you know, a toxic assets on top of you know, a toxic assets on top of you know, a depositors' depositors' depositors' money.

money. money. Not investors' money, depositors', Not investors' money, depositors', Not investors' money, depositors', people who are saving in the banking people who are saving in the banking people who are saving in the banking system. Now that firewall's gone. system. Now that firewall's gone. system. Now that firewall's gone. You can commingle this stuff. You can commingle this stuff. You can commingle this stuff. The potential for the entire financial The potential for the entire financial The potential for the entire financial system to collapse if there's a system to collapse if there's a system to collapse if there's a we have these continued bubbles we have these continued bubbles we have these continued bubbles is tremendous and the victims become is tremendous and the victims become is tremendous and the victims become depositors as well. Before they were depositors as well. Before they were depositors as well. Before they were kind of insulated, right? Because you kind of insulated, right? Because you kind of insulated, right? Because you had this firewall. It's gone. had this firewall. It's gone. had this firewall. It's gone. But the system But the system But the system The integrity part is important as well The integrity part is important as well The integrity part is important as well and we're losing it and the the what's and we're losing it and the the what's and we're losing it and the the what's now dominating is this meme [ __ ] now dominating is this meme [ __ ] now dominating is this meme [ __ ] Do you know what I'm saying? And this is Do you know what I'm saying? And this is Do you know what I'm saying? And this is this is straight-up gambling. It's just this is straight-up gambling. It's just this is straight-up gambling. It's just like how can I create like the snazziest like how can I create like the snazziest like how can I create like the snazziest little little little meme video or image that can trigger meme video or image that can trigger meme video or image that can trigger some kind of viral some kind of viral some kind of viral reaction that induces volatility. Like reaction that induces volatility. Like reaction that induces volatility. Like GameStop. Buy GameStop now. GO GO GO GO GameStop. Buy GameStop now. GO GO GO GO GameStop. Buy GameStop now. GO GO GO GO GO.

GO. GO. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> LIKE THAT. LIKE THAT BIT. You you've got >> LIKE THAT. LIKE THAT BIT. You you've got >> LIKE THAT. LIKE THAT BIT. You you've got a point you've got a point there, right? a point you've got a point there, right? a point you've got a point there, right? So again, this week's musings, if you So again, this week's musings, if you So again, this week's musings, if you look on TikTok today, look on TikTok today, look on TikTok today, you will find any number of you will find any number of you will find any number of content creators talking about the fake content creators talking about the fake content creators talking about the fake phone calls that they've received. Yeah. phone calls that they've received. Yeah. phone calls that they've received. Yeah. The you know, especially I mean it's The you know, especially I mean it's The you know, especially I mean it's it's predominantly iPhone users because it's predominantly iPhone users because it's predominantly iPhone users because FaceTime is the thing. And they're FaceTime is the thing. And they're FaceTime is the thing. And they're saying that a woman says that her saying that a woman says that her saying that a woman says that her daughter called her and said, "Hey Mom, daughter called her and said, "Hey Mom, daughter called her and said, "Hey Mom, can you open the door?" And she's like, can you open the door?" And she's like, can you open the door?" And she's like, you know, "What are you doing? You know, you know, "What are you doing? You know, you know, "What are you doing? You know, why why can't you open the door?" And why why can't you open the door?" And why why can't you open the door?" And she was like, "I left my keys or lost my she was like, "I left my keys or lost my she was like, "I left my keys or lost my keys." And then she's looking at this keys." And then she's looking at this keys." And then she's looking at this call on FaceTime and it's her daughter, call on FaceTime and it's her daughter, call on FaceTime and it's her daughter, but her daughter's at school. but her daughter's at school. but her daughter's at school. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, and there's and this is this is Okay, and there's and this is this is Okay, and there's and this is this is just proliferating. I've watched the just proliferating. I've watched the just proliferating. I've watched the wrap-up of all of these wrap-up of all of these wrap-up of all of these content creators reposting posting content creators reposting posting content creators reposting posting reposting posting this same thing but in reposting posting this same thing but in reposting posting this same thing but in different areas. A father is talking to different areas. A father is talking to different areas. A father is talking to his daughter, a mother is talking to her his daughter, a mother is talking to her his daughter, a mother is talking to her son. And and I'm like, okay, so what is son. And and I'm like, okay, so what is son. And and I'm like, okay, so what is the foundation of all of this? Mhm. And the foundation of all of this? Mhm. And the foundation of all of this? Mhm. And it is, oh, you guys need to be careful it is, oh, you guys need to be careful it is, oh, you guys need to be careful because these calls that are being because these calls that are being because these calls that are being generated are you know, but where is the generated are you know, but where is the generated are you know, but where is the root? Who is getting down to the root of root? Who is getting down to the root of root? Who is getting down to the root of this? Who is actually making sure that this? Who is actually making sure that this? Who is actually making sure that the applications that are being misused the applications that are being misused the applications that are being misused and hijacked I mean, where where where and hijacked I mean, where where where and hijacked I mean, where where where are the guardrails? But the but the

are the guardrails? But the but the are the guardrails? But the but the economic the economic model if you look economic the economic model if you look economic the economic model if you look at what Facebook is an example, so yeah, at what Facebook is an example, so yeah, at what Facebook is an example, so yeah, did Facebook know that its platform was did Facebook know that its platform was did Facebook know that its platform was being you know, it was harmful to to being you know, it was harmful to to being you know, it was harmful to to users? Yeah. I mean, but that's users? Yeah. I mean, but that's users? Yeah. I mean, but that's yeah, absolutely. But yeah, absolutely. But yeah, absolutely. But the collateral damage in the greater the collateral damage in the greater the collateral damage in the greater cause of of serving adverts to people to cause of of serving adverts to people to cause of of serving adverts to people to make cash. And and you know, when you make cash. And and you know, when you make cash. And and you know, when you have you don't have you don't have any have you don't have you don't have any have you don't have you don't have any guardrails. You're right, Bill. You guardrails. You're right, Bill. You guardrails. You're right, Bill. You don't have any guardrails to balance don't have any guardrails to balance don't have any guardrails to balance that that that singular intent to that that that singular intent to that that that singular intent to maximize, you know, revenue and maximize maximize, you know, revenue and maximize maximize, you know, revenue and maximize profit to balance that out with, you profit to balance that out with, you profit to balance that out with, you know, the I mean, this is why regulators know, the I mean, this is why regulators know, the I mean, this is why regulators exist. They place societal concerns on exist. They place societal concerns on exist. They place societal concerns on top of the naked bare drive to generate top of the naked bare drive to generate top of the naked bare drive to generate profit. Well, see But but this but this profit. Well, see But but this but this profit. Well, see But but this but this falls right into that bucket of tech has falls right into that bucket of tech has falls right into that bucket of tech has outpaced policy every single step of the outpaced policy every single step of the outpaced policy every single step of the way. Yeah. Yeah, but I think there's way. Yeah. Yeah, but I think there's way. Yeah. Yeah, but I think there's going to be this natural going to be this natural going to be this natural um um um appetite that develops for appetite that develops for appetite that develops for trust trust platforms and trust trust trust platforms and trust trust trust platforms and trust you know, something you know, you know, something you know, you know, something you know, something that will foster trust, right?

something that will foster trust, right? something that will foster trust, right? Because there's so many things that are Because there's so many things that are Because there's so many things that are attacking it um that are off attacking it um that are off attacking it um that are off you know, like um you know, like um you know, like um just creating so much noise. It's really just creating so much noise. It's really just creating so much noise. It's really difficult to tell what's true, what's difficult to tell what's true, what's difficult to tell what's true, what's not. Then you have all the threat not. Then you have all the threat not. Then you have all the threat actors. Now like hacks and deepfakes actors. Now like hacks and deepfakes actors. Now like hacks and deepfakes have been democratized have been democratized have been democratized um to a level that is really going to be um to a level that is really going to be um to a level that is really going to be become catastrophic at at some point become catastrophic at at some point become catastrophic at at some point very quickly. So going back to telcos, very quickly. So going back to telcos, very quickly. So going back to telcos, telcos you know, um will have great telcos you know, um will have great telcos you know, um will have great opportunity to provide that layer of opportunity to provide that layer of opportunity to provide that layer of trust because what are they they own the trust because what are they they own the trust because what are they they own the pipe. So how do they institute and pipe. So how do they institute and pipe. So how do they institute and implement um these trust services like a implement um these trust services like a implement um these trust services like a trust layer that allows trust layer that allows trust layer that allows you know, um you know, um you know, um you know, these communications to be you know, these communications to be you know, these communications to be trusted and you know, end to end. You trusted and you know, end to end. You trusted and you know, end to end. You know what I'm saying? The problem is know what I'm saying? The problem is know what I'm saying? The problem is that I mean, I know I saw a couple that I mean, I know I saw a couple that I mean, I know I saw a couple teenage kids, right? So you can have teenage kids, right? So you can have teenage kids, right? So you can have the the telcos number one people don't the the telcos number one people don't the the telcos number one people don't trust telcos, which is just a trust telcos, which is just a trust telcos, which is just a fundamental systemic Well, that's their fundamental systemic Well, that's their fundamental systemic Well, that's their fault. Yeah, that is their fault. But fault. Yeah, that is their fault. But fault. Yeah, that is their fault. But when it comes to actually constrain when it comes to actually constrain when it comes to actually constrain constraining what your child is looking constraining what your child is looking constraining what your child is looking at or or I mean, more protecting them at or or I mean, more protecting them at or or I mean, more protecting them that they don't get stuff served up to that they don't get stuff served up to that they don't get stuff served up to them. You have multiple layers. You have them. You have multiple layers. You have them. You have multiple layers. You have what, you know, Verizon or whomsoever what, you know, Verizon or whomsoever what, you know, Verizon or whomsoever provides in terms of protection. You provides in terms of protection. You provides in terms of protection. You have the protection layers on your local have the protection layers on your local have the protection layers on your local the Wi-Fi systems that you can control.

the Wi-Fi systems that you can control. the Wi-Fi systems that you can control. You have applications that you can load You have applications that you can load You have applications that you can load on an iPhone or an Android that will on an iPhone or an Android that will on an iPhone or an Android that will block certain types of content. You have block certain types of content. You have block certain types of content. You have you have all of these different layers you have all of these different layers you have all of these different layers and yet most and yet most and yet most 15-year-olds are technically savvy 15-year-olds are technically savvy 15-year-olds are technically savvy enough at this point to bypass them with enough at this point to bypass them with enough at this point to bypass them with a simple application of VPN. And most of a simple application of VPN. And most of a simple application of VPN. And most of the policemen, you know, the parents the policemen, you know, the parents the policemen, you know, the parents have have have literally, you know, no have have have literally, you know, no have have have literally, you know, no idea what's going on. I think the only idea what's going on. I think the only idea what's going on. I think the only saving grace is this and I was dreaming saving grace is this and I was dreaming saving grace is this and I was dreaming about this the other week, I think. It's about this the other week, I think. It's about this the other week, I think. It's this this this rejection of AI and the this this this rejection of AI and the this this this rejection of AI and the desire for authenticity and the desire desire for authenticity and the desire desire for authenticity and the desire for real things that is, I think, for real things that is, I think, for real things that is, I think, prevalent in the under-18 kind of prevalent in the under-18 kind of prevalent in the under-18 kind of generation, whatever they are, generation, whatever they are, generation, whatever they are, generation Alpha D or whoever, I lose generation Alpha D or whoever, I lose generation Alpha D or whoever, I lose track. But but their their their track. But but their their their track. But but their their their response to the system which is response to the system which is response to the system which is incapable of filtering out that which is incapable of filtering out that which is incapable of filtering out that which is not real is to reject it in wholesale. not real is to reject it in wholesale. not real is to reject it in wholesale. Yeah. Yeah. And and I don't know what Yeah. Yeah. And and I don't know what Yeah. Yeah. And and I don't know what the implication of that will will be. the implication of that will will be. the implication of that will will be. I'll start acting now. I'll start acting now. I'll start acting now. It's all right. Yeah. Mad Max. It's all right. Yeah. Mad Max. It's all right. Yeah. Mad Max. >> [laughter] >> Battle a battle start acting. No, you >> Battle a battle start acting. No, you know, he's talking about being becoming know, he's talking about being becoming know, he's talking about being becoming AI AI AI AI Amish, right?

AI Amish, right? AI Amish, right? You [clears throat] know, just rejecting You [clears throat] know, just rejecting You [clears throat] know, just rejecting Well, there will be I think there will Well, there will be I think there will Well, there will be I think there will people will ascribe more value to more people will ascribe more value to more people will ascribe more value to more analog things over time because it will analog things over time because it will analog things over time because it will be more rare and more difficult to be more rare and more difficult to be more rare and more difficult to obtain. You kind of see that today obtain. You kind of see that today obtain. You kind of see that today already. already. already. Um but Yeah. you know, that's that's Um but Yeah. you know, that's that's Um but Yeah. you know, that's that's that's the way it's going to be. People, that's the way it's going to be. People, that's the way it's going to be. People, you know, someday when it's all you know, someday when it's all you know, someday when it's all autonomous EVs, then you know, driving autonomous EVs, then you know, driving autonomous EVs, then you know, driving your own car will be like riding a horse your own car will be like riding a horse your own car will be like riding a horse today, you know, it's like, oh, I have today, you know, it's like, oh, I have today, you know, it's like, oh, I have this thing and I ride it around this this thing and I ride it around this this thing and I ride it around this little track and it's kind of a quirky little track and it's kind of a quirky little track and it's kind of a quirky interesting little niche and that'll be interesting little niche and that'll be interesting little niche and that'll be driving cars, you know, 50 years from 20 driving cars, you know, 50 years from 20 driving cars, you know, 50 years from 20 years. years. years. Yeah. Well, that's a that's another Yeah. Well, that's a that's another Yeah. Well, that's a that's another that's another sore spot I have because that's another sore spot I have because that's another sore spot I have because just like I don't believe that we went just like I don't believe that we went just like I don't believe that we went to the moon, I also don't believe that to the moon, I also don't believe that to the moon, I also don't believe that these damn autonomous vehicles are these damn autonomous vehicles are these damn autonomous vehicles are autonomous. There is somebody sitting autonomous. There is somebody sitting autonomous. There is somebody sitting back there with a [ __ ] joystick back there with a [ __ ] joystick back there with a [ __ ] joystick that's driving these things. And people that's driving these things. And people that's driving these things. And people are sitting here talking about, "I just are sitting here talking about, "I just are sitting here talking about, "I just got into a Waymo and there's no driver." got into a Waymo and there's no driver." got into a Waymo and there's no driver." Well, your driver is sitting behind a Well, your driver is sitting behind a Well, your driver is sitting behind a goddamn firewall that's driving you goddamn firewall that's driving you goddamn firewall that's driving you around and around and around and he loses connection and then you have an he loses connection and then you have an he loses connection and then you have an accident. Yeah, you know, you have a accident. Yeah, you know, you have a accident. Yeah, you know, you have a point. And you know, it's point. And you know, it's point. And you know, it's so I was at Cadence Live and they had a so I was at Cadence Live and they had a so I was at Cadence Live and they had a panel on physical AI and there's this um panel on physical AI and there's this um panel on physical AI and there's this um one of the panelists was talking about one of the panelists was talking about one of the panelists was talking about where where they are in the state of where where they are in the state of where where they are in the state of autonomous humanoid robots and you know, autonomous humanoid robots and you know, autonomous humanoid robots and you know, dexterity functions, right? You know dexterity functions, right? You know dexterity functions, right? You know where they are right now? They're trying where they are right now? They're trying where they are right now? They're trying to figure out how to get robots to fold

to figure out how to get robots to fold to figure out how to get robots to fold clothing. I mean, that simple to us clothing. I mean, that simple to us clothing. I mean, that simple to us which is absolutely a simple task which is absolutely a simple task which is absolutely a simple task >> Fold your own clothes. >> Fold your own clothes. >> Fold your own clothes. >> is incredibly hard. [laughter] >> is incredibly hard. [laughter] >> is incredibly hard. [laughter] I'm going to go put in a load of laundry I'm going to go put in a load of laundry I'm going to go put in a load of laundry right now, actually. right now, actually. right now, actually. >> Yeah, you should tell I mean, you should >> Yeah, you should tell I mean, you should >> Yeah, you should tell I mean, you should talk about talk to my 15-year-old about talk about talk to my 15-year-old about talk about talk to my 15-year-old about how easy folding laundry is cuz he seems how easy folding laundry is cuz he seems how easy folding laundry is cuz he seems continually incapable of taking it continually incapable of taking it continually incapable of taking it Impossible. I'm kidding. Do it. Impossible. I'm kidding. Do it. Impossible. I'm kidding. Do it. I did say to him the other day, you I did say to him the other day, you I did say to him the other day, you know, "I know you don't like AI things, know, "I know you don't like AI things, know, "I know you don't like AI things, but what about a robot that that folded but what about a robot that that folded but what about a robot that that folded your laundry for you?" He was like, your laundry for you?" He was like, your laundry for you?" He was like, >> [laughter] >> Hey, Bill. Get off my back, Dad. I don't >> Hey, Bill. Get off my back, Dad. I don't like you. Did those Artemis guys go like you. Did those Artemis guys go like you. Did those Artemis guys go around the moon? I don't think that around the moon? I don't think that around the moon? I don't think that happened. happened. happened. Did that happen? Did that happen? Did that happen? That didn't happen either. Everybody That didn't happen either. Everybody That didn't happen either. Everybody knows that. It was filmed in a knows that. It was filmed in a knows that. It was filmed in a warehouse. Don't they Bill? It was a warehouse. Don't they Bill? It was a warehouse. Don't they Bill? It was a warehouse in Burbank. That's where they warehouse in Burbank. That's where they warehouse in Burbank. That's where they were filming. were filming. were filming. cardboard box pretending to be in space. cardboard box pretending to be in space. cardboard box pretending to be in space. Cuz yeah, Cuz yeah, Cuz yeah, obviously it's a box. obviously it's a box. obviously it's a box. Tim Cook made a lot of hay out of all Tim Cook made a lot of hay out of all Tim Cook made a lot of hay out of all the astronauts having iPhone 17 Pro the astronauts having iPhone 17 Pro the astronauts having iPhone 17 Pro Maxes Maxes Maxes >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> taking pictures of the moon as they were >> taking pictures of the moon as they were >> taking pictures of the moon as they were flying around. I'm like, flying around. I'm like, flying around. I'm like, "Brought to you by Apple."

"Brought to you by Apple." "Brought to you by Apple." I mean, [laughter] you know, we can't I mean, [laughter] you know, we can't I mean, [laughter] you know, we can't fabricate any of that [ __ ] right? Not fabricate any of that [ __ ] right? Not fabricate any of that [ __ ] right? Not at all. at all. at all. I mean, look look, this is the this is I mean, look look, this is the this is I mean, look look, this is the this is the beauty of of of that, right? And I the beauty of of of that, right? And I the beauty of of of that, right? And I just think that a lot of people, if they just think that a lot of people, if they just think that a lot of people, if they actually don't believe or they do actually don't believe or they do actually don't believe or they do believe, depending on which side of the believe, depending on which side of the believe, depending on which side of the fence everyone else is on, fence everyone else is on, fence everyone else is on, the likelihood that they're willing to the likelihood that they're willing to the likelihood that they're willing to express that statement is slim because express that statement is slim because express that statement is slim because they don't want to deal with the they don't want to deal with the they don't want to deal with the backlash. But me, backlash. But me, backlash. But me, >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> bring it on, BABY. >> bring it on, BABY. >> bring it on, BABY. LET'S GO. LET'S GO. LET'S GO. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> HE'S LIKE, "I DON'T care if it torpedoes >> HE'S LIKE, "I DON'T care if it torpedoes >> HE'S LIKE, "I DON'T care if it torpedoes my entire business. It's okay." You are my entire business. It's okay." You are my entire business. It's okay." You are the you are the new Ned Ludd, Bill. You the you are the new Ned Ludd, Bill. You the you are the new Ned Ludd, Bill. You are the new Ned Ludd. Smash the machine. are the new Ned Ludd. Smash the machine. are the new Ned Ludd. Smash the machine. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Smash the machine. Yeah. No, but you >> Smash the machine. Yeah. No, but you >> Smash the machine. Yeah. No, but you know, going back to the the robot thing, know, going back to the the robot thing, know, going back to the the robot thing, your your comment, Bill. Yeah, you know, your your comment, Bill. Yeah, you know, your your comment, Bill. Yeah, you know, I was at GTC and you know, all these I was at GTC and you know, all these I was at GTC and you know, all these freaking kung fu robots, they're remote freaking kung fu robots, they're remote freaking kung fu robots, they're remote controlled. And you know, actually doing controlled. And you know, actually doing controlled. And you know, actually doing kung fu is easier may you know, teaching kung fu is easier may you know, teaching kung fu is easier may you know, teaching or programming actually a robot to do or programming actually a robot to do or programming actually a robot to do kung fu moves. That's like just video kung fu moves. That's like just video kung fu moves. That's like just video game [ __ ] you know, it's like Tekken, game [ __ ] you know, it's like Tekken, game [ __ ] you know, it's like Tekken, Of course. Folding autonomously folding Of course. Folding autonomously folding Of course. Folding autonomously folding clothing, totally different level. But I clothing, totally different level. But I clothing, totally different level. But I don't think the average observer don't think the average observer don't think the average observer understands the distinction. They will understands the distinction. They will understands the distinction. They will think, "Hey, we're at eight, you know, think, "Hey, we're at eight, you know, think, "Hey, we're at eight, you know, whatever whatever whatever autonomous robots because these things autonomous robots because these things autonomous robots because these things do kung fu."

do kung fu." do kung fu." They don't realize folding fold you They don't realize folding fold you They don't realize folding fold you know, the less sexy and impressive know, the less sexy and impressive know, the less sexy and impressive task of folding clothing is actually the task of folding clothing is actually the task of folding clothing is actually the tougher thing and is more indicative of tougher thing and is more indicative of tougher thing and is more indicative of where we actually are with where we actually are with where we actually are with physical AI which is boils down to physical AI which is boils down to physical AI which is boils down to robotics. robotics. robotics. It's a good some of these It's a good some of these It's a good some of these I was going to say some of these I was going to say some of these I was going to say some of these dexterity challenges which sounds kind dexterity challenges which sounds kind dexterity challenges which sounds kind of ridiculous, but they're actually of ridiculous, but they're actually of ridiculous, but they're actually really important because dexterity is really important because dexterity is really important because dexterity is also about picking strawberries and also about picking strawberries and also about picking strawberries and apples without bruises and you know, you apples without bruises and you know, you apples without bruises and you know, you can't harvest food at a high yield can't harvest food at a high yield can't harvest food at a high yield without dexterity of physical AI. without dexterity of physical AI. without dexterity of physical AI. The the the argument I think this part The the the argument I think this part The the the argument I think this part of the argument about neuromorphic of the argument about neuromorphic of the argument about neuromorphic computing models versus you know, computing models versus you know, computing models versus you know, generative generative generative the world the folding laundry is a the world the folding laundry is a the world the folding laundry is a perfect example of something that is perfect example of something that is perfect example of something that is inherently unpredictable. And you could inherently unpredictable. And you could inherently unpredictable. And you could argue that the generative LM you know, argue that the generative LM you know, argue that the generative LM you know, those those approaches to AI are really those those approaches to AI are really those those approaches to AI are really about building a much much better memory about building a much much better memory about building a much much better memory of what happened before and applying of what happened before and applying of what happened before and applying that pattern to the future world which that pattern to the future world which that pattern to the future world which is great if you're on a production line is great if you're on a production line is great if you're on a production line where every single part is the same size where every single part is the same size where every single part is the same size and every everything is predictable.

and every everything is predictable. and every everything is predictable. When any as soon as there is an element When any as soon as there is an element When any as soon as there is an element of unpredictability introduced then you of unpredictability introduced then you of unpredictability introduced then you create a problem whereby I'm I'm trying create a problem whereby I'm I'm trying create a problem whereby I'm I'm trying to anticipate the right outcome to to anticipate the right outcome to to anticipate the right outcome to the right answer to a problem that is the right answer to a problem that is the right answer to a problem that is unusual and does not correspond to Yeah, unusual and does not correspond to Yeah, unusual and does not correspond to Yeah, it's not uh it's not uh it's not uh That's That's That's a it's a it's a trade balancing of risk. a it's a it's a trade balancing of risk. a it's a it's a trade balancing of risk. It's a trade off and that's not what It's a trade off and that's not what It's a trade off and that's not what most most AI today is designed to do. most most AI today is designed to do. most most AI today is designed to do. Neuromorphic models where you know, it's Neuromorphic models where you know, it's Neuromorphic models where you know, it's like okay, we took a cloud first like okay, we took a cloud first like okay, we took a cloud first approach to AI in the first place. We approach to AI in the first place. We approach to AI in the first place. We assumed there was unlimited resources. assumed there was unlimited resources. assumed there was unlimited resources. We can we can we can index the entire We can we can we can index the entire We can we can we can index the entire internet and use all of that information internet and use all of that information internet and use all of that information to to recognize patterns on a grand to to recognize patterns on a grand to to recognize patterns on a grand scale. That model doesn't apply to AGI scale. That model doesn't apply to AGI scale. That model doesn't apply to AGI where there isn't unlimited resource where there isn't unlimited resource where there isn't unlimited resource where there is unpredictability where where there is unpredictability where where there is unpredictability where you [clears throat] have to factor in you [clears throat] have to factor in you [clears throat] have to factor in risks that are new each time risks that are new each time risks that are new each time and in the world of physical AI that's and in the world of physical AI that's and in the world of physical AI that's why I think you know Yeah, and and let why I think you know Yeah, and and let why I think you know Yeah, and and let me let me throw something else in there me let me throw something else in there me let me throw something else in there that that makes things even more that that makes things even more that that makes things even more complicated is the whole tactile thing.

complicated is the whole tactile thing. complicated is the whole tactile thing. You know, not You know, not You know, not you know, the world is not entirely you know, the world is not entirely you know, the world is not entirely solid, right? How there's textures, solid, right? How there's textures, solid, right? How there's textures, there's different there's different there's different you know, I mean certain things are soft you know, I mean certain things are soft you know, I mean certain things are soft and squishy and other things are not, and squishy and other things are not, and squishy and other things are not, but um the physics are so complicated but um the physics are so complicated but um the physics are so complicated uh uh uh this this tactile element of perception this this tactile element of perception this this tactile element of perception is like is like is like that's tough. Really really hard. that's tough. Really really hard. that's tough. Really really hard. And you need like and so it just And you need like and so it just And you need like and so it just I keep trying to PICK UP WATER. I keep trying to PICK UP WATER. I keep trying to PICK UP WATER. >> [laughter] >> IT LOOKS SOLID, RIGHT? IT LOOKS SOLID. >> IT LOOKS SOLID, RIGHT? IT LOOKS SOLID. YEAH. YEAH. Sometimes it is. Science Friday, people. Science Friday, people. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Well, there is there's not been I mean >> Well, there is there's not been I mean >> Well, there is there's not been I mean having spent you know, having spent you know, having spent you know, much of the the last year running a much of the the last year running a much of the the last year running a company that is focused on tactile company that is focused on tactile company that is focused on tactile haptic technology that that that haptic technology that that that haptic technology that that that replicates the ability to feel and sense replicates the ability to feel and sense replicates the ability to feel and sense and so forth. There aren't very many and so forth. There aren't very many and so forth. There aren't very many folks focused on that space of how do folks focused on that space of how do folks focused on that space of how do you create authentic touch? Either you create authentic touch? Either you create authentic touch? Either >> Well, yeah. I was going to say yeah.

>> Well, yeah. I was going to say yeah. >> Well, yeah. I was going to say yeah. How does the robot know how hard the How does the robot know how hard the How does the robot know how hard the blueberry needs to be can be squeezed blueberry needs to be can be squeezed blueberry needs to be can be squeezed before it before it before it >> Yes. Yes. They're trying to use vision. >> Yes. Yes. They're trying to use vision. >> Yes. Yes. They're trying to use vision. Yeah. They're trying to do that and you Yeah. They're trying to do that and you Yeah. They're trying to do that and you can't do that. And can't do that. And can't do that. And you know, the interesting thing is the you know, the interesting thing is the you know, the interesting thing is the technology is in the music industry. technology is in the music industry. technology is in the music industry. They've been using it for years. It's They've been using it for years. It's They've been using it for years. It's not haptic. It's actually not haptic. It's actually not haptic. It's actually sensory you know, like for instruments. sensory you know, like for instruments. sensory you know, like for instruments. You have different levels of velocity You have different levels of velocity You have different levels of velocity and sense and sense and sense >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you reverse that >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you reverse that >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you reverse that that becomes that becomes that becomes and I wrote about this and I wrote about this and I wrote about this 6 years ago. 6 years ago. 6 years ago. Well, that makes ultra sonic. Well, that makes ultra sonic. Well, that makes ultra sonic. Yeah, and I I highlighted this as being Yeah, and I I highlighted this as being Yeah, and I I highlighted this as being one of the important technologies one of the important technologies one of the important technologies because no one gives a [ __ ] about because no one gives a [ __ ] about because no one gives a [ __ ] about instruments. They think that the music instruments. They think that the music instruments. They think that the music industry doesn't do anything innovative. industry doesn't do anything innovative. industry doesn't do anything innovative. These [ __ ] do like super innovative These [ __ ] do like super innovative These [ __ ] do like super innovative stuff. stuff. stuff. And of course nobody you know, they get And of course nobody you know, they get And of course nobody you know, they get no attention for being you know, no attention for being you know, no attention for being you know, technology leaders, but some of these technology leaders, but some of these technology leaders, but some of these these guys in the music industry the these guys in the music industry the these guys in the music industry the level of innovation is crazy and the level of innovation is crazy and the level of innovation is crazy and the kind of technologies that they're using kind of technologies that they're using kind of technologies that they're using for instruments for instruments for instruments is is is it's leading edge, right? And but it's leading edge, right? And but it's leading edge, right? And but all this being said it gives you all this being said it gives you all this being said it gives you a really good idea of how a really good idea of how a really good idea of how early we are with all this stuff.

early we are with all this stuff. early we are with all this stuff. Despite all the demos and you know, like Despite all the demos and you know, like Despite all the demos and you know, like what is that Olaf tipping over and at what is that Olaf tipping over and at what is that Olaf tipping over and at Disney Disney Disney >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Did you see the latest what's the half >> Did you see the latest what's the half >> Did you see the latest what's the half marathon they're running in China? marathon they're running in China? marathon they're running in China? There's a lot of interesting uh There's a lot of interesting uh There's a lot of interesting uh What happened? Did it fall into What happened? Did it fall into What happened? Did it fall into >> Robots running. Ro- robots running is >> Robots running. Ro- robots running is >> Robots running. Ro- robots running is you know, good fodder for you know, good fodder for you know, good fodder for blooper reels and stuff cuz it's blooper reels and stuff cuz it's blooper reels and stuff cuz it's Westworld. Westworld. Westworld. Westworld, yeah. Westworld, yeah. Westworld, yeah. I mean but but you know, I mean I have I mean but but you know, I mean I have I mean but but you know, I mean I have to say Alister makes an awesome point. to say Alister makes an awesome point. to say Alister makes an awesome point. You're you're doing something. You're You're you're doing something. You're You're you're doing something. You're you're actually solving a problem. you're actually solving a problem. you're actually solving a problem. It's not I mean but the majority of the It's not I mean but the majority of the It's not I mean but the majority of the people are going to look at it and be people are going to look at it and be people are going to look at it and be like, "That's not sexy. Who gives a like, "That's not sexy. Who gives a like, "That's not sexy. Who gives a fuck?" You're solving a problem that fuck?" You're solving a problem that fuck?" You're solving a problem that needs to be solved. needs to be solved. needs to be solved. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that is And that is And that is and you're and you're doing it with all and you're and you're doing it with all and you're and you're doing it with all of the all of the new tech that they're of the all of the new tech that they're of the all of the new tech that they're interested in. Yeah, [ __ ] the ugly baby. interested in. Yeah, [ __ ] the ugly baby. interested in. Yeah, [ __ ] the ugly baby. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Where there where there is muck Yeah. Where there where there is muck Yeah. Where there where there is muck where there is muck less brass which is where there is muck less brass which is where there is muck less brass which is the the the you know, where there's shitty boring you know, where there's shitty boring you know, where there's shitty boring stuff to do. Those are the things where stuff to do. Those are the things where stuff to do. Those are the things where technology excels and all of the things technology excels and all of the things technology excels and all of the things that AI is being used for. You were that AI is being used for. You were that AI is being used for. You were talking about AI replacing people in all talking about AI replacing people in all talking about AI replacing people in all of these higher functioning roles. It's of these higher functioning roles. It's of these higher functioning roles. It's not really the point. What what the AI not really the point. What what the AI not really the point. What what the AI can do really really well is boring can do really really well is boring can do really really well is boring repetitive [ __ ] that requires a high repetitive [ __ ] that requires a high repetitive [ __ ] that requires a high degree of attention to detail, but not a degree of attention to detail, but not a degree of attention to detail, but not a great deal of intelligence to determine great deal of intelligence to determine great deal of intelligence to determine what's going on. Like writing test what's going on. Like writing test what's going on. Like writing test scripts. Like you know, going through scripts. Like you know, going through scripts. Like you know, going through and and and evaluating code and and and and evaluating code and and and and evaluating code and identifying issues that you can then go identifying issues that you can then go identifying issues that you can then go and look at. Like it's the it's the like

and look at. Like it's the it's the like and look at. Like it's the it's the like the professions like the legal the professions like the legal the professions like the legal profession where you know, profession where you know, profession where you know, a good friend of mine's a lawyer so I a good friend of mine's a lawyer so I a good friend of mine's a lawyer so I shouldn't say this, but most 5% of what shouldn't say this, but most 5% of what shouldn't say this, but most 5% of what lawyers do is is boring crap. It's like lawyers do is is boring crap. It's like lawyers do is is boring crap. It's like waiting through a whole bunch of data waiting through a whole bunch of data waiting through a whole bunch of data and and and try you can do that with an and and and try you can do that with an and and and try you can do that with an AI. That's right and they charge you 400 AI. That's right and they charge you 400 AI. That's right and they charge you 400 bucks an hour for that. You can't handle bucks an hour for that. You can't handle bucks an hour for that. You can't handle the truth. We we build we build all of the truth. We we build we build all of the truth. We we build we build all of our legal documents our legal documents our legal documents using Claude at first. I turned around using Claude at first. I turned around using Claude at first. I turned around and gave them to my lawyer. and gave them to my lawyer. and gave them to my lawyer. And he reviewed all of them and I asked And he reviewed all of them and I asked And he reviewed all of them and I asked him, "If I had to ask you to do this for him, "If I had to ask you to do this for him, "If I had to ask you to do this for me?" He said, "Oh, easy. 30, 40,000 me?" He said, "Oh, easy. 30, 40,000 me?" He said, "Oh, easy. 30, 40,000 dollars." And and he was done in 4 hours reviewing And and he was done in 4 hours reviewing everything. everything. everything. I asked him. I said, "Did you use AI to I asked him. I said, "Did you use AI to I asked him. I said, "Did you use AI to review this?" review this?" review this?" >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I'm just I just want to know how we're >> I'm just I just want to know how we're >> I'm just I just want to know how we're working here. working here. working here. You know, but You know, but You know, but Yeah, you something called Claude.

Yeah, you something called Claude. Yeah, you something called Claude. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I was >> I was >> I was right the first time. Yeah. Yeah, I did right the first time. Yeah. Yeah, I did right the first time. Yeah. Yeah, I did I I I say the same thing. We save 20, 30,000 say the same thing. We save 20, 30,000 say the same thing. We save 20, 30,000 dollars a month by using AI and I always dollars a month by using AI and I always dollars a month by using AI and I always felt slightly guilty turning to our felt slightly guilty turning to our felt slightly guilty turning to our lawyer and saying, "Can you just review lawyer and saying, "Can you just review lawyer and saying, "Can you just review this?" You know, it was almost like this?" You know, it was almost like this?" You know, it was almost like crestfallen like, "All right then." crestfallen like, "All right then." crestfallen like, "All right then." I don't get to do the fun part anymore I don't get to do the fun part anymore I don't get to do the fun part anymore writing it and writing it and writing it and and charging you 20 hours this contract. and charging you 20 hours this contract. and charging you 20 hours this contract. You know, I'm only doing the hard but I You know, I'm only doing the hard but I You know, I'm only doing the hard but I my guilt is swayed by by the saving that my guilt is swayed by by the saving that my guilt is swayed by by the saving that we were generating good sales as well. we were generating good sales as well. we were generating good sales as well. Yeah, no. I mean look, I get it. I mean Yeah, no. I mean look, I get it. I mean Yeah, no. I mean look, I get it. I mean it's just it's just the same way that we it's just it's just the same way that we it's just it's just the same way that we had to adapt, they have to adapt. had to adapt, they have to adapt. had to adapt, they have to adapt. Yeah, I mean you know, here's the thing. Yeah, I mean you know, here's the thing. Yeah, I mean you know, here's the thing. There's always a what do you call it? Um There's always a what do you call it? Um There's always a what do you call it? Um underserved or unserved problem, you underserved or unserved problem, you underserved or unserved problem, you know, that we talk about all the time. know, that we talk about all the time. know, that we talk about all the time. And yeah, And yeah, And yeah, interesting thing about chip design and interesting thing about chip design and interesting thing about chip design and I'm going back to circling back to I'm going back to circling back to I'm going back to circling back to Cadence here and this whole topic of Cadence here and this whole topic of Cadence here and this whole topic of quality. quality. quality. One of the biggest problems they have in One of the biggest problems they have in One of the biggest problems they have in chip design right now is what they call chip design right now is what they call chip design right now is what they call they don't call it this, but I call it they don't call it this, but I call it they don't call it this, but I call it this. It's the verification deficit. You this. It's the verification deficit. You this. It's the verification deficit. You have complex designs that are very have complex designs that are very have complex designs that are very difficult to verify. So what they do is difficult to verify. So what they do is difficult to verify. So what they do is they do a half-ass job of verifying the they do a half-ass job of verifying the they do a half-ass job of verifying the design. Then they tape out and it gets design. Then they tape out and it gets design. Then they tape out and it gets [ __ ] up and then they lose [ __ ] ton of [ __ ] up and then they lose [ __ ] ton of [ __ ] up and then they lose [ __ ] ton of money. That risk curve is just going money. That risk curve is just going money. That risk curve is just going exponential now. And so one of the exponential now. And so one of the exponential now. And so one of the biggest challenge they have is

biggest challenge they have is biggest challenge they have is being able to verify being able to verify being able to verify to ensure quality on the other end. So to ensure quality on the other end. So to ensure quality on the other end. So you're not doing hundreds of millions of you're not doing hundreds of millions of you're not doing hundreds of millions of dollars investment in a chip you know, dollars investment in a chip you know, dollars investment in a chip you know, chip design getting a tape out and it's chip design getting a tape out and it's chip design getting a tape out and it's all [ __ ] up. all [ __ ] up. all [ __ ] up. Um Um Um so AI will have the ability to support so AI will have the ability to support so AI will have the ability to support the scaling and force multiplication on the scaling and force multiplication on the scaling and force multiplication on both ends. It's both ends. It's both ends. It's generating a bunch of generating a bunch of generating a bunch of you know, let's call it chip design you know, let's call it chip design you know, let's call it chip design slop, but it has to be verified. And slop, but it has to be verified. And slop, but it has to be verified. And then there's the whole development life then there's the whole development life then there's the whole development life cycle or design life cycle that needs to cycle or design life cycle that needs to cycle or design life cycle that needs to be adjusted to get people in there be adjusted to get people in there be adjusted to get people in there actually doing thorough checkpoint actually doing thorough checkpoint actually doing thorough checkpoint design checkpoints, right? And so the design checkpoints, right? And so the design checkpoints, right? And so the you know, just like with software you know, just like with software you know, just like with software development, just because you have code development, just because you have code development, just because you have code generated to complete doesn't mean that generated to complete doesn't mean that generated to complete doesn't mean that you have like the entire SDLC you have like the entire SDLC you have like the entire SDLC handled by an agent or even a series of handled by an agent or even a series of handled by an agent or even a series of agents. You still need to inject people agents. You still need to inject people agents. You still need to inject people in the middle to to make sure that the in the middle to to make sure that the in the middle to to make sure that the quality is there.

quality is there. quality is there. >> It's dealing with the unpredictability. >> It's dealing with the unpredictability. >> It's dealing with the unpredictability. >> And you're Yeah, and you're hearing less >> And you're Yeah, and you're hearing less >> And you're Yeah, and you're hearing less and less about, "Hey, we're getting rid and less about, "Hey, we're getting rid and less about, "Hey, we're getting rid of people." You're hearing more about of people." You're hearing more about of people." You're hearing more about actually what I think Keeping up. Yeah, actually what I think Keeping up. Yeah, actually what I think Keeping up. Yeah, Pete, you were talking about it's like Pete, you were talking about it's like Pete, you were talking about it's like people aren't The need for people isn't people aren't The need for people isn't people aren't The need for people isn't disappearing. You actually don't have disappearing. You actually don't have disappearing. You actually don't have enough people. No. And And one of the enough people. No. And And one of the enough people. No. And And one of the things that Jensen said on stage, I things that Jensen said on stage, I things that Jensen said on stage, I fully agree with and I'm glad he said fully agree with and I'm glad he said fully agree with and I'm glad he said it. We need more software developers, it. We need more software developers, it. We need more software developers, not fewer. not fewer. not fewer. And so for the And for the people who And so for the And for the people who And so for the And for the people who are telling their kids, "Don't pursue a are telling their kids, "Don't pursue a are telling their kids, "Don't pursue a CS degree or don't become a programmer." CS degree or don't become a programmer." CS degree or don't become a programmer." You you're giving your kids the wrong You you're giving your kids the wrong You you're giving your kids the wrong You're definitely giving them the wrong You're definitely giving them the wrong You're definitely giving them the wrong message. They're looking for more chip message. They're looking for more chip message. They're looking for more chip designers. They're not looking for chip designers. They're not looking for chip designers. They're not looking for chip designers. designers. designers. Huh? The bottom rungs of the ladder have Huh? The bottom rungs of the ladder have Huh? The bottom rungs of the ladder have been cut off. I mean, we don't So, take been cut off. I mean, we don't So, take been cut off. I mean, we don't So, take chip design. So, I've spent too long chip design. So, I've spent too long chip design. So, I've spent too long thinking about that. So, yeah, you can thinking about that. So, yeah, you can thinking about that. So, yeah, you can go through an incredibly sophisticated go through an incredibly sophisticated go through an incredibly sophisticated simulation of what the chip's going to simulation of what the chip's going to simulation of what the chip's going to do. You can go to FPGA and you can run do. You can go to FPGA and you can run do. You can go to FPGA and you can run it it it and then you tape out and then you and and then you tape out and then you and and then you tape out and then you and you still have to go that back in and you still have to go that back in and you still have to go that back in and then verify and it takes a couple of then verify and it takes a couple of then verify and it takes a couple of tape outs before you're only going to tape outs before you're only going to tape outs before you're only going to get to a point where you've got a get to a point where you've got a get to a point where you've got a functional chip. And most of that functional chip. And most of that functional chip. And most of that verification is about dealing with the verification is about dealing with the verification is about dealing with the unpredictable. It's it's about, you unpredictable. It's it's about, you unpredictable. It's it's about, you know, understanding the impact of know, understanding the impact of know, understanding the impact of moisture and oxidation and Yeah, yeah.

moisture and oxidation and Yeah, yeah. moisture and oxidation and Yeah, yeah. random things could impact this chip in random things could impact this chip in random things could impact this chip in the course in the course of its life. the course in the course of its life. the course in the course of its life. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, those those those Identifying those issues and figuring Identifying those issues and figuring Identifying those issues and figuring out how to rectify them is a highly out how to rectify them is a highly out how to rectify them is a highly skilled task. The problem is that if you skilled task. The problem is that if you skilled task. The problem is that if you don't have the bottom rungs of the don't have the bottom rungs of the don't have the bottom rungs of the ladder where people coming out with ladder where people coming out with ladder where people coming out with fresh computer science or electrical fresh computer science or electrical fresh computer science or electrical engineering degrees get to do the grunt engineering degrees get to do the grunt engineering degrees get to do the grunt work for a few years and learn the work for a few years and learn the work for a few years and learn the basic, basic, basic, how do you end up with people who've got how do you end up with people who've got how do you end up with people who've got that skill set necessary? that skill set necessary? that skill set necessary? >> Yeah, but but that's a that's a >> Yeah, but but that's a that's a >> Yeah, but but that's a that's a that is a decision that is being driven that is a decision that is being driven that is a decision that is being driven by misinformation. by misinformation. by misinformation. Mhm. Right? Yeah, I agree. Mhm. Right? Yeah, I agree. Mhm. Right? Yeah, I agree. Misinformation. And this is why hype and Misinformation. And this is why hype and Misinformation. And this is why hype and nonsense are so horrible for nonsense are so horrible for nonsense are so horrible for organizations because you end up making organizations because you end up making organizations because you end up making the wrong decision. You don't invest in the wrong decision. You don't invest in the wrong decision. You don't invest in the the entry-level folks who you should the the entry-level folks who you should the the entry-level folks who you should be bringing to the organization cuz you be bringing to the organization cuz you be bringing to the organization cuz you should be hydrating your human human should be hydrating your human human should be hydrating your human human resources you and and talent and resources you and and talent and resources you and and talent and experience base. experience base. experience base. Experience base. I think that's Experience base. I think that's Experience base. I think that's important. If you don't I mean, if you important. If you don't I mean, if you important. If you don't I mean, if you don't do that, yes, your organization don't do that, yes, your organization don't do that, yes, your organization deserves to disappear from the face of deserves to disappear from the face of deserves to disappear from the face of the earth.

the earth. the earth. Fine. Somebody else is going to take Fine. Somebody else is going to take Fine. Somebody else is going to take over and hopefully it's one of the over and hopefully it's one of the over and hopefully it's one of the people that you didn't hire that takes people that you didn't hire that takes people that you didn't hire that takes your company out. your company out. your company out. And yeah. Well, how many years has it And yeah. Well, how many years has it And yeah. Well, how many years has it been? How many years have we been been? How many years have we been been? How many years have we been talking about this shortage of C C++ talking about this shortage of C C++ talking about this shortage of C C++ embedded development capabilities, embedded development capabilities, embedded development capabilities, particularly given AI right now? We've particularly given AI right now? We've particularly given AI right now? We've been I've been talking about it 20 been I've been talking about it 20 been I've been talking about it 20 freaking years. Nothing's changed freaking years. Nothing's changed freaking years. Nothing's changed fundamentally. There isn't There isn't, fundamentally. There isn't There isn't, fundamentally. There isn't There isn't, you know, companies that should you you know, companies that should you you know, companies that should you know, know, know, With the exception of some of the larger With the exception of some of the larger With the exception of some of the larger chip companies, perhaps, but the chip companies, perhaps, but the chip companies, perhaps, but the companies that that are going to be most companies that that are going to be most companies that that are going to be most impacted by that shortage should be, you impacted by that shortage should be, you impacted by that shortage should be, you know, paying it forward. They should be know, paying it forward. They should be know, paying it forward. They should be investing in this level education. They investing in this level education. They investing in this level education. They should be And yet they they're not. And should be And yet they they're not. And should be And yet they they're not. And And it is kind of like this this this And it is kind of like this this this And it is kind of like this this this kind of vain hope, I think, that AI will kind of vain hope, I think, that AI will kind of vain hope, I think, that AI will will ride over the hill on its white will ride over the hill on its white will ride over the hill on its white horse and solve the problem. horse and solve the problem. horse and solve the problem. But the reality is for all the reasons But the reality is for all the reasons But the reality is for all the reasons that we just cited, that that that we just cited, that that that we just cited, that that AI's not going to this not going to have AI's not going to this not going to have AI's not going to this not going to have the requisite skill sets to deal with the requisite skill sets to deal with the requisite skill sets to deal with highly unpredictable situations and highly unpredictable situations and highly unpredictable situations and figuring out complex solutions. It's figuring out complex solutions. It's figuring out complex solutions. It's just not designed just not designed just not designed So, So, So, who's going to say this? Absolutely. And who's going to say this? Absolutely. And who's going to say this? Absolutely. And who's going to code your agent?

who's going to code your agent? who's going to code your agent? Who's going to code your agent? Who's going to code your agent? Who's going to code your agent? Of course. Wait wait wait, are you are Of course. Wait wait wait, are you are Of course. Wait wait wait, are you are you saying again that if you know you saying again that if you know you saying again that if you know better, you should do better? better, you should do better? better, you should do better? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> WHAT? WHAT? LET'S JUST GO BACK TO THAT. >> WHAT? WHAT? LET'S JUST GO BACK TO THAT. >> WHAT? WHAT? LET'S JUST GO BACK TO THAT. That's That's That's Maybe maybe that will be the line that Maybe maybe that will be the line that Maybe maybe that will be the line that underpins the downfall of civilization. underpins the downfall of civilization. underpins the downfall of civilization. Humanity reached the point where it no Humanity reached the point where it no Humanity reached the point where it no longer gave the longer gave the longer gave the it no longer knew better and did better. it no longer knew better and did better. it no longer knew better and did better. They They They should watch They They They should watch They They They should watch Yeah, they should watch Rob's videos on Yeah, they should watch Rob's videos on Yeah, they should watch Rob's videos on using tech for the what do you call it? using tech for the what do you call it? using tech for the what do you call it? The UN What do you call it? The UN What do you call it? The UN What do you call it? Sustainability Goals. That's Sustainability Goals. That's Sustainability Goals. That's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Nobody cares. >> Nobody cares. >> Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. I know. [laughter] I know. [laughter] I know. [laughter] You did all that stuff and nobody all of You did all that stuff and nobody all of You did all that stuff and nobody all of a sudden like I spent all that time a sudden like I spent all that time a sudden like I spent all that time making all that stuff, building up making all that stuff, building up making all that stuff, building up building all this tech to save the building all this tech to save the building all this tech to save the planet and it turns out nobody gave a planet and it turns out nobody gave a planet and it turns out nobody gave a [ __ ] So, wow, what a bummer. Oh, well. [ __ ] So, wow, what a bummer. Oh, well. [ __ ] So, wow, what a bummer. Oh, well. All right. And on that note, we'll try All right. And on that note, we'll try All right. And on that note, we'll try again. again. again. On that note, maybe it's time to wrap it On that note, maybe it's time to wrap it On that note, maybe it's time to wrap it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you want to up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you want to up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you want to take us out? take us out? take us out? Feeling positive here.

Feeling positive here. Feeling positive here. >> been nearly cynical enough this week. We >> been nearly cynical enough this week. We >> been nearly cynical enough this week. We need to They need to be more need to They need to be more need to They need to be more Dutch and misery. Yes, more misery, more Dutch and misery. Yes, more misery, more Dutch and misery. Yes, more misery, more uh cynicism. No, there's nothing cynical uh cynicism. No, there's nothing cynical uh cynicism. No, there's nothing cynical about it. Come on, we're telling people about it. Come on, we're telling people about it. Come on, we're telling people to hire more people. Hire more to hire more people. Hire more to hire more people. Hire more entry-level people. entry-level people. entry-level people. >> people. Hire more people. Get more >> people. Hire more people. Get more >> people. Hire more people. Get more cameras on those guys going around the cameras on those guys going around the cameras on those guys going around the moon. moon. moon. Or did they? Or did they? Or did they? Did they? [laughter] How do you trust How do you trust them unless you were there? them unless you were there? them unless you were there? There you go. find me on FaceTime from There you go. find me on FaceTime from There you go. find me on FaceTime from from Artemis to say hi and I mean, you from Artemis to say hi and I mean, you from Artemis to say hi and I mean, you know, he looked like he was there. He know, he looked like he was there. He know, he looked like he was there. He pointed his iPhone down there. pointed his iPhone down there. pointed his iPhone down there. He only He only asked me to give him my He only He only asked me to give him my He only He only asked me to give him my banking details so that, you know, I I banking details so that, you know, I I banking details so that, you know, I I could make a contribution to the next could make a contribution to the next could make a contribution to the next mission. Was that the wrong thing? mission. Was that the wrong thing? mission. Was that the wrong thing? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I mean, come on, Alister, if you know >> I mean, come on, Alister, if you know >> I mean, come on, Alister, if you know better, you should do better. Yeah. Yes. better, you should do better. Yeah. Yes. better, you should do better. Yeah. Yes. And therefore, if you know better, you And therefore, if you know better, you And therefore, if you know better, you should do better by supporting should do better by supporting should do better by supporting IoT Coffee Talk with our charity called IoT Coffee Talk with our charity called IoT Coffee Talk with our charity called Elevate Communities. It's really Elevate Communities. It's really Elevate Communities. It's really underway. Really underway now. It's underway. Really underway now. It's underway. Really underway now. It's really a segue. Almost there. Almost really a segue. Almost there. Almost really a segue. Almost there. Almost there. It's I feel it. I've seen some there. It's I feel it. I've seen some there. It's I feel it. I've seen some emails that tells me that we're there.

emails that tells me that we're there. emails that tells me that we're there. And so that's a good thing. And so that's a good thing. And so that's a good thing. Back to non-cynical positive stuff. Back to non-cynical positive stuff. Back to non-cynical positive stuff. Yeah, maybe you guys didn't care about Yeah, maybe you guys didn't care about Yeah, maybe you guys didn't care about me saving the planet with technology. me saving the planet with technology. me saving the planet with technology. So, we'll come up with something new to So, we'll come up with something new to So, we'll come up with something new to save and maybe you'll care. I don't save and maybe you'll care. I don't save and maybe you'll care. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe you just want know. I don't know. Maybe you just want know. I don't know. Maybe you just want stock picks. I don't know. Maybe, you stock picks. I don't know. Maybe, you stock picks. I don't know. Maybe, you know, I I predicted that Commerce One know, I I predicted that Commerce One know, I I predicted that Commerce One was going to go to 2,000 back in '99 and was going to go to 2,000 back in '99 and was going to go to 2,000 back in '99 and then I and CNBC and I predicted that then I and CNBC and I predicted that then I and CNBC and I predicted that NFTs were going to be the biggest thing NFTs were going to be the biggest thing NFTs were going to be the biggest thing ever. Who should you believe? I saw Tim ever. Who should you believe? I saw Tim ever. Who should you believe? I saw Tim Cook in the module of the Artemis Cook in the module of the Artemis Cook in the module of the Artemis spaceship handing out the iPhones for spaceship handing out the iPhones for spaceship handing out the iPhones for fake pictures, you know, on the movie fake pictures, you know, on the movie fake pictures, you know, on the movie set out the windows. You know, set out the windows. You know, set out the windows. You know, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] it was amazing. Thanks so much for it was amazing. Thanks so much for it was amazing. Thanks so much for hanging out with us. hanging out with us. hanging out with us. >> He came through the window and handed >> He came through the window and handed >> He came through the window and handed him an iPhone. What Oh my god. him an iPhone. What Oh my god. him an iPhone. What Oh my god. >> [laughter] >> He handed through the window. He gave >> He handed through the window. He gave you the wrong your phone. Wait, you the wrong your phone. Wait, you the wrong your phone. Wait, no. They didn't They didn't pay you for no. They didn't They didn't pay you for no. They didn't They didn't pay you for You got to pay You got to pay You got to pay They didn't pan out a little bit and see They didn't pan out a little bit and see They didn't pan out a little bit and see that you that you that you didn't pull the deal to [laughter] roll didn't pull the deal to [laughter] roll didn't pull the deal to [laughter] roll up up up and roll down the window and roll down the window and roll down the window on the on the on the ON HIS MODULE.

ON HIS MODULE. ON HIS MODULE. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> WHAT COULD GO WRONG? OH MY GOSH, YES. >> WHAT COULD GO WRONG? OH MY GOSH, YES. >> WHAT COULD GO WRONG? OH MY GOSH, YES. SO, you know, but part of it was real. SO, you know, but part of it was real. SO, you know, but part of it was real. You know, we did launch the big rocket. You know, we did launch the big rocket. You know, we did launch the big rocket. A lot of people saw that and that went A lot of people saw that and that went A lot of people saw that and that went up in the air. Lots of people saw that. up in the air. Lots of people saw that. up in the air. Lots of people saw that. So, Yep. you know, but after some point, So, Yep. you know, but after some point, So, Yep. you know, but after some point, I guess you can't see it anymore, right? I guess you can't see it anymore, right? I guess you can't see it anymore, right? Well, the thing is either way the thing Well, the thing is either way the thing Well, the thing is either way the thing is they all had sun-tanned elbows from is they all had sun-tanned elbows from is they all had sun-tanned elbows from driving along in the Artemis with their driving along in the Artemis with their driving along in the Artemis with their elbows hanging out the window. elbows hanging out the window. elbows hanging out the window. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, therefore, therefore, therefore, Therefore, Bill's right. Just stick with Therefore, Bill's right. Just stick with Therefore, Bill's right. Just stick with what Bill's saying, okay? I'm just what Bill's saying, okay? I'm just what Bill's saying, okay? I'm just saying, you know, He's just saying, you saying, you know, He's just saying, you saying, you know, He's just saying, you know, Bill's making millions on know, Bill's making millions on know, Bill's making millions on t-shirts. t-shirts. t-shirts. >> asking questions. He's just asking >> asking questions. He's just asking >> asking questions. He's just asking questions. questions. questions. >> [laughter] >> I'm just I'm just I'm just trying to be >> I'm just I'm just I'm just trying to be here so I don't get fined. here so I don't get fined. here so I don't get fined. Thank you, Marshaun. Thank you for that. Thank you, Marshaun. Thank you for that. Thank you, Marshaun. Thank you for that. All right, we'll see you guys next week. All right, we'll see you guys next week. All right, we'll see you guys next week. Have a great week. Have a great week. Have a great week. Adios. Adios. Adios. >> [music]