IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 203 - What is Ancient is New (The Tech Lifecycle)

[Applause] [Applause] there you go nice woo there you go nice woo there you go nice woo nice wish you were here yeah what was nice wish you were here yeah what was nice wish you were here yeah what was that wish you were here no I was just that wish you were here no I was just that wish you were here no I was just just fing around okay er's got his just fing around okay er's got his just fing around okay er's got his Eric's got his tea on yeah I know I was Eric's got his tea on yeah I know I was Eric's got his tea on yeah I know I was waiting at the very end I thought you waiting at the very end I thought you waiting at the very end I thought you were going to stop and go no that's what you do Rob you're the go no that's what you do Rob you're the singer yeah so if if I can convince him singer yeah so if if I can convince him singer yeah so if if I can convince him my son's at University of Illinois my son's at University of Illinois my son's at University of Illinois studying music and of course I'm his dad studying music and of course I'm his dad studying music and of course I'm his dad I'm think he's a fantastic guitarist but I'm think he's a fantastic guitarist but I'm think he's a fantastic guitarist but he's he's played Summerfest he's played he's he's played Summerfest he's played he's he's played Summerfest he's played Spain and Portugal that guitar is his Spain and Portugal that guitar is his Spain and Portugal that guitar is his he's been trying to get me to learn I am he's been trying to get me to learn I am he's been trying to get me to learn I am not good at all but someday Maybe I can not good at all but someday Maybe I can not good at all but someday Maybe I can convince him to come on and do a riff oh convince him to come on and do a riff oh convince him to come on and do a riff oh that would be like that would be so that would be like that would be so that would be like that would be so awesome because I've seen some of his awesome because I've seen some of his awesome because I've seen some of his videos on Instagram that you posted and videos on Instagram that you posted and videos on Instagram that you posted and I'm like he's really really good not not I'm like he's really really good not not I'm like he's really really good not not just good he's just good he's just good he's fantastic I was you laugh at this I've fantastic I was you laugh at this I've fantastic I was you laugh at this I've been telling him his whole life to get been telling him his whole life to get been telling him his whole life to get to get a degree in science specifically to get a degree in science specifically to get a degree in science specifically computer science and so he applied to computer science and so he applied to computer science and so he applied to Purdue and all these schools and got Purdue and all these schools and got Purdue and all these schools and got into many of them and then he secretly into many of them and then he secretly into many of them and then he secretly applied for music at Illinois and I said applied for music at Illinois and I said applied for music at Illinois and I said oh my God go do that go do that instead that's awesome wow yeah so much instead that's awesome wow yeah so much yeah you know I I feel like I hammered yeah you know I I feel like I hammered yeah you know I I feel like I hammered my kids all through High School write my kids all through High School write my kids all through High School write code go be a developer you know um and I

code go be a developer you know um and I code go be a developer you know um and I failed miserably me too now and now they failed miserably me too now and now they failed miserably me too now and now they make but they make fun of me they'll make but they make fun of me they'll make but they make fun of me they'll come up like Hey Dad I heard our plan B come up like Hey Dad I heard our plan B come up like Hey Dad I heard our plan B should be to be a should be to be a should be to be a coder yeah but I I took I took a coder yeah but I I took I took a coder yeah but I I took I took a different approach I I gave up when she different approach I I gave up when she different approach I I gave up when she was 12 and actually like six months ago was 12 and actually like six months ago was 12 and actually like six months ago she came back I have a boring job I'm she came back I have a boring job I'm she came back I have a boring job I'm GNA stop and learn programming so I GNA stop and learn programming so I GNA stop and learn programming so I don't know if it's gonna hold don't know if it's gonna hold don't know if it's gonna hold wrong he's learning Pon now she's doing wrong he's learning Pon now she's doing wrong he's learning Pon now she's doing this program on online so I don't know this program on online so I don't know this program on online so I don't know my son just followed in his dad's my son just followed in his dad's my son just followed in his dad's footsteps he just completed his private footsteps he just completed his private footsteps he just completed his private private pilot private pilot private pilot license helicopter and now he's going to license helicopter and now he's going to license helicopter and now he's going to start working on his commercial but he's start working on his commercial but he's start working on his commercial but he's going to get a degree too so he just going to get a degree too so he just going to get a degree too so he just he's throwing around he's throwing around he's throwing around aerospace engineering he's throwing aerospace engineering he's throwing aerospace engineering he's throwing around aggro business he's all over the around aggro business he's all over the around aggro business he's all over the place so I'm like I don't really care place so I'm like I don't really care place so I'm like I don't really care like just go do what you want do what like just go do what you want do what like just go do what you want do what you you you love well my daughter just dropped a her love well my daughter just dropped a her love well my daughter just dropped a her band just dropped a new song on Spotify band just dropped a new song on Spotify band just dropped a new song on Spotify today so if you go check it out you'll today so if you go check it out you'll today so if you go check it out you'll have to share the link with us in the have to share the link with us in the have to share the link with us in the chat I'll will share the link it's the chat I'll will share the link it's the chat I'll will share the link it's the band's called birdhouse but turns out band's called birdhouse but turns out band's called birdhouse but turns out there's a lot of bands called birdh there's a lot of bands called birdh there's a lot of bands called birdh house house house who knew but I'll share the link yeah who knew but I'll share the link yeah who knew but I'll share the link yeah it's a nice it's a good one my son did it's a nice it's a good one my son did it's a nice it's a good one my son did the same in his band's called Mannequin the same in his band's called Mannequin the same in his band's called Mannequin and there's a lot of mannequins as well and there's a lot of mannequins as well and there's a lot of mannequins as well so what are you gonna do hard to find I so what are you gonna do hard to find I so what are you gonna do hard to find I think we should talk about NC State think we should talk about NC State think we should talk about NC State actually what is going on with that yes

actually what is going on with that yes actually what is going on with that yes yes I have Liv in my best life man it is yes I have Liv in my best life man it is yes I have Liv in my best life man it is my it is a moment of I was I was very my it is a moment of I was I was very my it is a moment of I was I was very young last time this happened and now young last time this happened and now young last time this happened and now it's finally happened 40 years later so it's finally happened 40 years later so it's finally happened 40 years later so I got go this weekend in Texas it was I got go this weekend in Texas it was I got go this weekend in Texas it was awesome man that's kind of what's in my awesome man that's kind of what's in my awesome man that's kind of what's in my head too when I think of NC State is head too when I think of NC State is head too when I think of NC State is when they beat Houston yeah um and and when they beat Houston yeah um and and when they beat Houston yeah um and and he's running around trying to hug he's running around trying to hug he's running around trying to hug somebody remember that yeah I hugged a somebody remember that yeah I hugged a somebody remember that yeah I hugged a lot of strangers in Dallas last lot of strangers in Dallas last lot of strangers in Dallas last weekend you know but if you think about weekend you know but if you think about weekend you know but if you think about that game it was the most unlikely win that game it was the most unlikely win that game it was the most unlikely win and it shows the power of coaching and it shows the power of coaching and it shows the power of coaching because NC State was playing arguably an because NC State was playing arguably an because NC State was playing arguably an NBA team with aim aajan and Clyde NBA team with aim aajan and Clyde NBA team with aim aajan and Clyde Drexler running gun fast and everything Drexler running gun fast and everything Drexler running gun fast and everything yeah but it was coaching and forcing yeah but it was coaching and forcing yeah but it was coaching and forcing them to slow down and just screwed up them to slow down and just screwed up them to slow down and just screwed up their game and screwed up everything their game and screwed up everything their game and screwed up everything because you know they on some level it's because you know they on some level it's because you know they on some level it's like yeah they should have beat you by like yeah they should have beat you by like yeah they should have beat you by 30 points but you got they out you got 30 points but you got they out you got 30 points but you got they out you got you out coached them you know and a lot you out coached them you know and a lot you out coached them you know and a lot of people don't get that the power of of people don't get that the power of of people don't get that the power of real coaching and strategy and stuff real coaching and strategy and stuff real coaching and strategy and stuff like that you know when you think you like that you know when you think you like that you know when you think you have overwhelming Talent on the other have overwhelming Talent on the other have overwhelming Talent on the other team you know it's never a lost team you know it's never a lost team you know it's never a lost cause no sometimes change the rules y cause no sometimes change the rules y cause no sometimes change the rules y yeah sometimes you have to change the yeah sometimes you have to change the yeah sometimes you have to change the rules yeah absolutely and then look at rules yeah absolutely and then look at rules yeah absolutely and then look at look at what Jim valano became after look at what Jim valano became after look at what Jim valano became after that what an inspirational person that what an inspirational person that what an inspirational person absolutely hugely inspirational person absolutely hugely inspirational person absolutely hugely inspirational person oh my God yeah Jimmy B Man Jimmy I was oh my God yeah Jimmy B Man Jimmy I was oh my God yeah Jimmy B Man Jimmy I was blessed to see him speak at NC State

blessed to see him speak at NC State blessed to see him speak at NC State back in I think it was 91 it was his back in I think it was 91 it was his back in I think it was 91 it was his first trip back one of my buddies I first trip back one of my buddies I first trip back one of my buddies I started IBM with was there in 83 he started IBM with was there in 83 he started IBM with was there in 83 he invited me to the game and Bano gave invited me to the game and Bano gave invited me to the game and Bano gave this speech and it was insane and I was this speech and it was insane and I was this speech and it was insane and I was fortunate to have been fortunate to have been fortunate to have been there I if if if you guys beat us I'm there I if if if you guys beat us I'm there I if if if you guys beat us I'm not gonna be horribly crushed I will not gonna be horribly crushed I will not gonna be horribly crushed I will be I'll be pretty crushed but at least be I'll be pretty crushed but at least be I'll be pretty crushed but at least uh at least one of the good guys it's uh at least one of the good guys it's uh at least one of the good guys it's been a little while for both of us yeah been a little while for both of us yeah been a little while for both of us yeah yeah of course I watched Houston lose to yeah of course I watched Houston lose to yeah of course I watched Houston lose to Duke and it was a really a talent thing Duke and it was a really a talent thing Duke and it was a really a talent thing their star player they're U their star player they're U their star player they're U Michael Jordan was not in the game you Michael Jordan was not in the game you Michael Jordan was not in the game you know and so that's tough that was Rob know and so that's tough that was Rob know and so that's tough that was Rob did you watch the the Aggie game where did you watch the the Aggie game where did you watch the the Aggie game where it went into overtime yeah that was it went into overtime yeah that was it went into overtime yeah that was crazy that was that was a n biter I was crazy that was that was a n biter I was crazy that was that was a n biter I was like I was like yeah my anxiety after like I was like yeah my anxiety after like I was like yeah my anxiety after that game I could not go to sleep I was that game I could not go to sleep I was that game I could not go to sleep I was just like I'm not gonna sleep just like I'm not gonna sleep just like I'm not gonna sleep tonight it's bad but yeah without tonight it's bad but yeah without tonight it's bad but yeah without without shed Houston was a good team but without shed Houston was a good team but without shed Houston was a good team but they weren't a great team anymore you they weren't a great team anymore you they weren't a great team anymore you know and it's it's like if we went back know and it's it's like if we went back know and it's it's like if we went back in time thinking like North Carolina if in time thinking like North Carolina if in time thinking like North Carolina if all of a sudden they didn't have Michael all of a sudden they didn't have Michael all of a sudden they didn't have Michael Jordan on the team when they were Jordan on the team when they were Jordan on the team when they were winning you know how would that have winning you know how would that have winning you know how would that have changed things for them going in Final changed things for them going in Final changed things for them going in Final Four you know so obviously don't listen Four you know so obviously don't listen Four you know so obviously don't listen to me because I just made a case for to me because I just made a case for to me because I just made a case for coaching over talent and then I just coaching over talent and then I just coaching over talent and then I just made a case of of talent over you can't made a case of of talent over you can't made a case of of talent over you can't be wrong you can't be wrong it's good be wrong you can't be wrong it's good be wrong you can't be wrong it's good well well well done you know now sometimes the talent's

done you know now sometimes the talent's done you know now sometimes the talent's so overwhelming it do matter like if you so overwhelming it do matter like if you so overwhelming it do matter like if you have MJ or somebody oh man sometimes sometimes the talent is oh man sometimes sometimes the talent is just in another country and you pay them just in another country and you pay them just in another country and you pay them really low wages to make things happen really low wages to make things happen really low wages to make things happen oh boy yeah wom Yama at the Spurs he's oh boy yeah wom Yama at the Spurs he's oh boy yeah wom Yama at the Spurs he's uh we've been having a rough go at it uh we've been having a rough go at it uh we've been having a rough go at it for a while so he's we're finally for a while so he's we're finally for a while so he's we're finally starting to win some yeah so sad there starting to win some yeah so sad there starting to win some yeah so sad there you go you know that guy's that guy's you go you know that guy's that guy's you go you know that guy's that guy's wingspan is like from a Triple wingspan is like from a Triple wingspan is like from a Triple 7 he like does this he just puts his 7 he like does this he just puts his 7 he like does this he just puts his hand up and blocks and I'm just like hand up and blocks and I'm just like hand up and blocks and I'm just like he's not even jumping he's just like bam he's not even jumping he's just like bam he's not even jumping he's just like bam yeah you know I always feel bad for the yeah you know I always feel bad for the yeah you know I always feel bad for the San Antonio Spurs they're the most San Antonio Spurs they're the most San Antonio Spurs they're the most underrated successful NBA team in underrated successful NBA team in underrated successful NBA team in history coach pop is if you asked up if history coach pop is if you asked up if history coach pop is if you asked up if you ask the average person about the you ask the average person about the you ask the average person about the success story of San Antonio or how many success story of San Antonio or how many success story of San Antonio or how many wins they have they're like San An who wins they have they're like San An who wins they have they're like San An who they've never been what are you talking they've never been what are you talking they've never been what are you talking about those Tim Duncan years they were about those Tim Duncan years they were about those Tim Duncan years they were pretty pretty pretty awesome awesome awesome how many did they win Stephanie have how many did they win Stephanie have how many did they win Stephanie have they won four three championships I they won four three championships I they won four three championships I think I think they have four or five think I think they have four or five think I think they have four or five rings yeah but it's like nobody knows it rings yeah but it's like nobody knows it rings yeah but it's like nobody knows it yeah because they weren't the Bulls or yeah because they weren't the Bulls or yeah because they weren't the Bulls or whatever you know what I mean they they whatever you know what I mean they they whatever you know what I mean they they won a championship the night my husband won a championship the night my husband won a championship the night my husband asked me to marry him so we're like in asked me to marry him so we're like in asked me to marry him so we're like in San Antonio we walk out into this San Antonio we walk out into this San Antonio we walk out into this beautiful hotel porch and then he gets beautiful hotel porch and then he gets beautiful hotel porch and then he gets on his knee and then we go back in and

on his knee and then we go back in and on his knee and then we go back in and finish the game everyone was cheering finish the game everyone was cheering finish the game everyone was cheering for you it was all yeah that's perfect for you it was all yeah that's perfect for you it was all yeah that's perfect way to get way to get way to get engaged it was way too much fun so he's engaged it was way too much fun so he's engaged it was way too much fun so he's thinking wow I scor this is my kind of thinking wow I scor this is my kind of thinking wow I scor this is my kind of girl he likes sports sports sports fans girl he likes sports sports sports fans girl he likes sports sports sports fans and you get all of Stephany that's a and you get all of Stephany that's a and you get all of Stephany that's a pretty good package if you ask pretty good package if you ask pretty good package if you ask me right that's pretty cool all right me right that's pretty cool all right me right that's pretty cool all right somebody please say something about somebody please say something about somebody please say something about technology oh technology what happened technology oh technology what happened technology oh technology what happened well we had to suffer through all this well we had to suffer through all this well we had to suffer through all this April Fool's baloney me I was saying April Fool's baloney me I was saying April Fool's baloney me I was saying like in this age of disinformation April like in this age of disinformation April like in this age of disinformation April fools is not as much fun anymore because fools is not as much fun anymore because fools is not as much fun anymore because Pete I got to the point on April 1 I was Pete I got to the point on April 1 I was Pete I got to the point on April 1 I was like I don't know if I want to read like I don't know if I want to read like I don't know if I want to read anything because I'm like I don't know anything because I'm like I don't know anything because I'm like I don't know what's real out there feels like every what's real out there feels like every what's real out there feels like every day is April right that's a great Point day is April right that's a great Point day is April right that's a great Point yeah it's funny I read one and started yeah it's funny I read one and started yeah it's funny I read one and started buying into it I'm like oh what day is buying into it I'm like oh what day is buying into it I'm like oh what day is this I'm like oh my gosh I forget which this I'm like oh my gosh I forget which this I'm like oh my gosh I forget which one it was but they had this commercial one it was but they had this commercial one it was but they had this commercial with the scientist I think you guys with the scientist I think you guys with the scientist I think you guys comment on the edge scientist guy Miss comment on the edge scientist guy Miss comment on the edge scientist guy Miss oh it's good uh it's company called oh it's good uh it's company called oh it's good uh it's company called starts with a T is Twin starts with a T is Twin starts with a T is Twin thread is the new version it was tulip thread is the new version it was tulip thread is the new version it was tulip tulip with the encabulator tulip yeah tulip with the encabulator tulip yeah tulip with the encabulator tulip yeah yeah they did a fantastic video and I yeah they did a fantastic video and I yeah they did a fantastic video and I watched it and I was about to make a watched it and I was about to make a watched it and I was about to make a serious comment I go wait a minute I go serious comment I go wait a minute I go serious comment I go wait a minute I go yeah the scary part is that could have yeah the scary part is that could have yeah the scary part is that could have been I think I made a comment I said been I think I made a comment I said been I think I made a comment I said that could have been a real video from that could have been a real video from that could have been a real video from corporate names

corporate names corporate names redacted I think I I think we should redacted I think I I think we should redacted I think I I think we should post it with that once we post the post it with that once we post the post it with that once we post the episode cuz I here's here's a a Rob episode cuz I here's here's a a Rob episode cuz I here's here's a a Rob Tiffany prediction if you listen to the Tiffany prediction if you listen to the Tiffany prediction if you listen to the language used in the video and the words language used in the video and the words language used in the video and the words and the Order of the words how they're and the Order of the words how they're and the Order of the words how they're utilized against you know from utilized against you know from utilized against you know from technology to outcomes I bet you that technology to outcomes I bet you that technology to outcomes I bet you that they are on a corporate pitch deck last they are on a corporate pitch deck last they are on a corporate pitch deck last week week week already I'm sure there's probably uh already I'm sure there's probably uh already I'm sure there's probably uh chat GPT generated there was another chat GPT generated there was another chat GPT generated there was another there a story about Nvidia buying the there a story about Nvidia buying the there a story about Nvidia buying the Xbox brand that I know got a lot of Xbox brand that I know got a lot of Xbox brand that I know got a lot of traction uh yeah I'll put the link I traction uh yeah I'll put the link I traction uh yeah I'll put the link I found the post from to it's good always found the post from to it's good always found the post from to it's good always has enough truth to it to be like maybe you know when um it's like a lot maybe you know when um it's like a lot of words were said but it was but of words were said but it was but of words were said but it was but nothing was said it's like okay words nothing was said it's like okay words nothing was said it's like okay words but like what does what does it yeah I but like what does what does it yeah I but like what does what does it yeah I think we've all been there think we've all been there think we've all been there yeah yeah yeah a lot of like you tune out of that a lot of like you tune out of that a lot of like you tune out of that conference call for like a half hour and conference call for like a half hour and conference call for like a half hour and then you tune in you realize you didn't then you tune in you realize you didn't then you tune in you realize you didn't miss anything we're still here was there miss anything we're still here was there miss anything we're still here was there just like a whole meme about that during just like a whole meme about that during just like a whole meme about that during Co where you just kind of checked out Co where you just kind of checked out Co where you just kind of checked out and at the very end you go thanks and at the very end you go thanks and at the very end you go thanks everyone all right you know that's right everyone all right you know that's right everyone all right you know that's right thanks take care thanks great love you thanks take care thanks great love you thanks take care thanks great love you miss you what else oh I'll I'll do a miss you what else oh I'll I'll do a miss you what else oh I'll I'll do a little Spiel Rob and I have been on a little Spiel Rob and I have been on a little Spiel Rob and I have been on a little journey here with our Windows little journey here with our Windows little journey here with our Windows Phone WTF series we're building uh this Phone WTF series we're building uh this Phone WTF series we're building uh this nine episode thing we had an interview nine episode thing we had an interview nine episode thing we had an interview with Joe B fiori last Friday

with Joe B fiori last Friday with Joe B fiori last Friday Friday uh that's going to be episode six Friday uh that's going to be episode six Friday uh that's going to be episode six I think and uh boy it was really good I think and uh boy it was really good I think and uh boy it was really good and we've been publishing little and we've been publishing little and we've been publishing little Snippets in our group uh Windows Phone Snippets in our group uh Windows Phone Snippets in our group uh Windows Phone WTF group on LinkedIn if people want to WTF group on LinkedIn if people want to WTF group on LinkedIn if people want to join that I was wondering what that was join that I was wondering what that was join that I was wondering what that was when I saw that this morning I was like when I saw that this morning I was like when I saw that this morning I was like okay I need to figure out what this is okay I need to figure out what this is okay I need to figure out what this is and what's going on here yeah so we've and what's going on here yeah so we've and what's going on here yeah so we've been interviewing uh you know Peter kuk been interviewing uh you know Peter kuk been interviewing uh you know Peter kuk Todd Warren Laura Butler Joel fiori Todd Warren Laura Butler Joel fiori Todd Warren Laura Butler Joel fiori we've got a few other special guests we've got a few other special guests we've got a few other special guests coming but it's gonna be a nine-part coming but it's gonna be a nine-part coming but it's gonna be a nine-part series on the Arc of Microsoft's mobile series on the Arc of Microsoft's mobile series on the Arc of Microsoft's mobile platform over about 20 year period uh platform over about 20 year period uh platform over about 20 year period uh which is cool and we talked to Joe on which is cool and we talked to Joe on which is cool and we talked to Joe on Friday he was very generous with his Friday he was very generous with his Friday he was very generous with his time and really got to some core issues time and really got to some core issues time and really got to some core issues you know core questions about tough you know core questions about tough you know core questions about tough decisions that were made and oh yeah decisions that were made and oh yeah decisions that were made and oh yeah cool and and people out in the world may cool and and people out in the world may cool and and people out in the world may not know some of those other guys but not know some of those other guys but not know some of those other guys but they may know about Joe because he was they may know about Joe because he was they may know about Joe because he was certainly out front holding that Windows certainly out front holding that Windows certainly out front holding that Windows phone and launching it and he had the phone and launching it and he had the phone and launching it and he had the hair you know yeah it still has the same hair you know yeah it still has the same hair you know yeah it still has the same haircut still has the same cool hair you haircut still has the same cool hair you haircut still has the same cool hair you got to wear black kind of stuff you be got to wear black kind of stuff you be got to wear black kind of stuff you be produ guy the turtle exactly he sounded produ guy the turtle exactly he sounded produ guy the turtle exactly he sounded good and the picture was good and you good and the picture was good and you good and the picture was good and you know absolutely so but uh so that was know absolutely so but uh so that was know absolutely so but uh so that was fun so that's G to come out we're g to fun so that's G to come out we're g to fun so that's G to come out we're g to try to get the First episodes out in try to get the First episodes out in try to get the First episodes out in April by the end of April episode was April by the end of April episode was April by the end of April episode was you know Pete Pete's really holding back you know Pete Pete's really holding back you know Pete Pete's really holding back and being shy about what we really are and being shy about what we really are and being shy about what we really are we are really documentarians is that a we are really documentarians is that a we are really documentarians is that a word this is we've created a documentary word this is we've created a documentary word this is we've created a documentary I mean it's a documentary yes a nine I mean it's a documentary yes a nine I mean it's a documentary yes a nine episode documentary like you may have episode documentary like you may have episode documentary like you may have seen on Netflix perhaps or something I

seen on Netflix perhaps or something I seen on Netflix perhaps or something I don't don't don't know ready to know ready to know ready to go Bob's ready for his Netflix deal down the road on os2 and windows deal down the road on os2 and windows and you can crush me and you can crush me and you can crush me Rob because I fought that fight as a Rob because I fought that fight as a Rob because I fought that fight as a young person and I was so passionately young person and I was so passionately young person and I was so passionately on the side I write there with you man I on the side I write there with you man I on the side I write there with you man I was Mr ow to I felt like I had no was Mr ow to I felt like I had no was Mr ow to I felt like I had no friends in the world y yeah you know I'm friends in the world y yeah you know I'm friends in the world y yeah you know I'm going to Egghead software where's the going to Egghead software where's the going to Egghead software where's the os2 os2 os2 section and the battle was over before section and the battle was over before section and the battle was over before it began let's be honest but I do it began let's be honest but I do it began let's be honest but I do remember there was a moment in time I remember there was a moment in time I remember there was a moment in time I was joking there when Egghead actually was joking there when Egghead actually was joking there when Egghead actually did have a small section and you could did have a small section and you could did have a small section and you could buy you know I think what there was buy you know I think what there was buy you know I think what there was Lotus 123 for os2 there was Amy Pro does Lotus 123 for os2 there was Amy Pro does Lotus 123 for os2 there was Amy Pro does anybody remember Ami Pro versus word anybody remember Ami Pro versus word anybody remember Ami Pro versus word versus Word Perfect there was word there versus Word Perfect there was word there versus Word Perfect there was word there was word perfect for us sure I met a guy was word perfect for us sure I met a guy was word perfect for us sure I met a guy that worked for Word Perfect the other that worked for Word Perfect the other that worked for Word Perfect the other week in San Francisco oh my gosh wow now week in San Francisco oh my gosh wow now week in San Francisco oh my gosh wow now Smith Point Capital yeah really super Smith Point Capital yeah really super Smith Point Capital yeah really super nice guy arguably arguably the best nice guy arguably arguably the best nice guy arguably arguably the best client for Compu serve was this product client for Compu serve was this product client for Compu serve was this product for us too called Golden Compass and so for us too called Golden Compass and so for us too called Golden Compass and so can you imagine the early 90s and all of can you imagine the early 90s and all of can you imagine the early 90s and all of a sudden here's this 32-bit a sudden here's this 32-bit a sudden here's this 32-bit multi-threaded client for compy serve multi-threaded client for compy serve multi-threaded client for compy serve that used multiple threads to go to that used multiple threads to go to that used multiple threads to go to different parts of compy serve in a way different parts of compy serve in a way different parts of compy serve in a way that nothing else could it was pretty that nothing else could it was pretty that nothing else could it was pretty pretty pretty pretty so a lot of that was showing off the so a lot of that was showing off the so a lot of that was showing off the power of os2 but why did they lose let's

power of os2 but why did they lose let's power of os2 but why did they lose let's give it the Big M marketing marketing give it the Big M marketing marketing give it the Big M marketing marketing and and third party and embracing third and and third party and embracing third and and third party and embracing third party developers like that was the thing party developers like that was the thing party developers like that was the thing I I was doing all those Demos in Chicago I I was doing all those Demos in Chicago I I was doing all those Demos in Chicago back in the day right client server back in the day right client server back in the day right client server objectoriented dut guy and and showing objectoriented dut guy and and showing objectoriented dut guy and and showing off the multitasking of os2 and this is off the multitasking of os2 and this is off the multitasking of os2 and this is great but all that ran on it was IBM great but all that ran on it was IBM great but all that ran on it was IBM software right like you've got to open software right like you've got to open software right like you've got to open this up just like Sega lost to Nintendo this up just like Sega lost to Nintendo this up just like Sega lost to Nintendo back in the day because Nintendo opened back in the day because Nintendo opened back in the day because Nintendo opened up it's the same yes well this is a up it's the same yes well this is a up it's the same yes well this is a theme we had with Joe B on Windows phone theme we had with Joe B on Windows phone theme we had with Joe B on Windows phone right was how do you once you had iPhone right was how do you once you had iPhone right was how do you once you had iPhone and Android who wants to write their app and Android who wants to write their app and Android who wants to write their app a third time you know for a third a third time you know for a third a third time you know for a third platform and it was like such a huge it platform and it was like such a huge it platform and it was like such a huge it was a big ask and uh that was really was a big ask and uh that was really was a big ask and uh that was really what ultimately you know it you know what ultimately you know it you know what ultimately you know it you know kind of killed the platform you know I kind of killed the platform you know I kind of killed the platform you know I think it was Magna box when they came think it was Magna box when they came think it was Magna box when they came out with their um first VCR they would out with their um first VCR they would out with their um first VCR they would only sell it to you if you bought their only sell it to you if you bought their only sell it to you if you bought their TV so if you had any other yeah so it's TV so if you had any other yeah so it's TV so if you had any other yeah so it's like did not work out for like did not work out for like did not work out for them by the way let's bring that back to them by the way let's bring that back to them by the way let's bring that back to iot and Edge that's got to happen too iot and Edge that's got to happen too iot and Edge that's got to happen too right because these Edge folks that are right because these Edge folks that are right because these Edge folks that are closed they're going to have to open up closed they're going to have to open up closed they're going to have to open up right or they're going to lose that's I right or they're going to lose that's I right or they're going to lose that's I have strong opinions here but like if have strong opinions here but like if have strong opinions here but like if you get a proprietary Edge that only you get a proprietary Edge that only you get a proprietary Edge that only works with your stuff good luck in in works with your stuff good luck in in works with your stuff good luck in in the next few years true I think I think the next few years true I think I think the next few years true I think I think from time to time we should remind the from time to time we should remind the from time to time we should remind the young people that enjoy technology and young people that enjoy technology and young people that enjoy technology and things like overthe a updates and you things like overthe a updates and you things like overthe a updates and you take it for granted you take it for

take it for granted you take it for take it for granted you take it for granted that you can just oh look it's a granted that you can just oh look it's a granted that you can just oh look it's a patch click o I have the latest and patch click o I have the latest and patch click o I have the latest and greatest because back in the day you had greatest because back in the day you had greatest because back in the day you had to get on that dial phone and you had to to get on that dial phone and you had to to get on that dial phone and you had to ask one of these or a code or Worse the ask one of these or a code or Worse the ask one of these or a code or Worse the set of discat like os2 had 28 I remember set of discat like os2 had 28 I remember set of discat like os2 had 28 I remember I go on and on reinstalling Eric do you I go on and on reinstalling Eric do you I go on and on reinstalling Eric do you remember the concept the phenomen on remember the concept the phenomen on remember the concept the phenomen on when you're having to reinstall those when you're having to reinstall those when you're having to reinstall those two getting disc elbow oh two getting disc elbow oh two getting disc elbow oh yeah you had to stack them and getting yeah you had to stack them and getting yeah you had to stack them and getting them in the right sequence oh my gosh them in the right sequence oh my gosh them in the right sequence oh my gosh yes so this is the archaeology episode yes so this is the archaeology episode yes so this is the archaeology episode we are about we are historians here an we are about we are historians here an we are about we are historians here an archaeologist you talk about open stuff archaeologist you talk about open stuff archaeologist you talk about open stuff the if because I know I still have a the if because I know I still have a the if because I know I still have a stack of os2 magazine you know and I stack of os2 magazine you know and I stack of os2 magazine you know and I also remember the one where you had also remember the one where you had also remember the one where you had Patrick Stewart the Borg is here and Patrick Stewart the Borg is here and Patrick Stewart the Borg is here and everything those two could run windows everything those two could run windows everything those two could run windows and Doss and but I I also remember one and Doss and but I I also remember one and Doss and but I I also remember one of the editors I think his last name was of the editors I think his last name was of the editors I think his last name was black he talked he was bashing IBM black he talked he was bashing IBM black he talked he was bashing IBM because they were also charging a lot of because they were also charging a lot of because they were also charging a lot of money for the SDK and tools to build money for the SDK and tools to build money for the SDK and tools to build apps for os2 and I just remember I just apps for os2 and I just remember I just apps for os2 and I just remember I just remember a commentary it's like you remember a commentary it's like you remember a commentary it's like you should be handing that out to every should be handing that out to every should be handing that out to every developer you can find Microsoft did developer you can find Microsoft did developer you can find Microsoft did yeah yeah yeah I was screaming at folks yeah yeah yeah I was screaming at folks yeah yeah yeah I was screaming at folks in boa Ron but no one's listening to a in boa Ron but no one's listening to a in boa Ron but no one's listening to a 24y old screaming yeah 24y old screaming yeah 24y old screaming yeah well sometimes companies get they get well sometimes companies get they get well sometimes companies get they get short-sided with the business model they short-sided with the business model they short-sided with the business model they don't they don't really clearly Define don't they don't really clearly Define don't they don't really clearly Define what winning looks like and they get

what winning looks like and they get what winning looks like and they get wrapped up in their own kind of p&l and wrapped up in their own kind of p&l and wrapped up in their own kind of p&l and processes and you know one of the cool processes and you know one of the cool processes and you know one of the cool things about doing this Windows phone or things about doing this Windows phone or things about doing this Windows phone or Microsoft platform thing is having these Microsoft platform thing is having these Microsoft platform thing is having these discussions with folks from things that discussions with folks from things that discussions with folks from things that happened 20 or 30 years ago like we're happened 20 or 30 years ago like we're happened 20 or 30 years ago like we're talking about same stuff happens today talking about same stuff happens today talking about same stuff happens today people are still they struggle with how people are still they struggle with how people are still they struggle with how to be open how to make things work how to be open how to make things work how to be open how to make things work how to get the ecosystem engaged how to to get the ecosystem engaged how to to get the ecosystem engaged how to figure out the right pricing model for figure out the right pricing model for figure out the right pricing model for your stuff your stuff your stuff um and so some of these lessons are just um and so some of these lessons are just um and so some of these lessons are just Evergreens you know for people that are Evergreens you know for people that are Evergreens you know for people that are building products and building building products and building building products and building businesses true I don't want to ruin businesses true I don't want to ruin businesses true I don't want to ruin your punch but like isn't a lot of the your punch but like isn't a lot of the your punch but like isn't a lot of the success of Windows phone actually in success of Windows phone actually in success of Windows phone actually in Android now or I mean yes I don't know Android now or I mean yes I don't know Android now or I mean yes I don't know if that's if you think about well if that's if you think about well if that's if you think about well Android adopted the Windows mobile way Android adopted the Windows mobile way Android adopted the Windows mobile way of doing approach approach kind of open of doing approach approach kind of open of doing approach approach kind of open let you do whatever the hell you wanted let you do whatever the hell you wanted let you do whatever the hell you wanted to oh oh and also their operating system to oh oh and also their operating system to oh oh and also their operating system was free so there was no licensing cost was free so there was no licensing cost was free so there was no licensing cost to be paid by the OEM um a lot of people to be paid by the OEM um a lot of people to be paid by the OEM um a lot of people pointed out to us rightly so in that pointed out to us rightly so in that pointed out to us rightly so in that Windows mobile time frame we were Windows mobile time frame we were Windows mobile time frame we were building devices for the mobile building devices for the mobile building devices for the mobile operators and we we gave a this great operators and we we gave a this great operators and we we gave a this great toolkit this thing called Windows CE toolkit this thing called Windows CE toolkit this thing called Windows CE that was broken into about 256 different that was broken into about 256 different that was broken into about 256 different pieces and you could assemble whatever pieces and you could assemble whatever pieces and you could assemble whatever you wanted which was great and which is you wanted which was great and which is you wanted which was great and which is why you had a lot of variety and stuff why you had a lot of variety and stuff why you had a lot of variety and stuff like that um but you know and then like that um but you know and then like that um but you know and then variety yeah and then Joe fiori talks variety yeah and then Joe fiori talks variety yeah and then Joe fiori talks about you know closing that down and about you know closing that down and about you know closing that down and trying to be more iPhone like the trying to be more iPhone like the trying to be more iPhone like the chassis yeah which was very restrictive

chassis yeah which was very restrictive chassis yeah which was very restrictive that a crazy story of getting the end that a crazy story of getting the end that a crazy story of getting the end user in a way wrong because the the user in a way wrong because the the user in a way wrong because the the Telco was the end buyer right therefore Telco was the end buyer right therefore Telco was the end buyer right therefore the Telco was telling the OEM this is the Telco was telling the OEM this is the Telco was telling the OEM this is what the customers want and since when what the customers want and since when what the customers want and since when does a Telco know what the customer does a Telco know what the customer does a Telco know what the customer wants I mean what a what a what a wants I mean what a what a what a wants I mean what a what a what a show but that was the way the phone show but that was the way the phone show but that was the way the phone business worked for decades right yeah I business worked for decades right yeah I business worked for decades right yeah I mean that's just the way it worked and mean that's just the way it worked and mean that's just the way it worked and then that that that whole disruption had then that that that whole disruption had then that that that whole disruption had happened in the early happened in the early happened in the early 2000s I think required everyone to sort 2000s I think required everyone to sort 2000s I think required everyone to sort of reboot and um yeah there was like a of reboot and um yeah there was like a of reboot and um yeah there was like a span of time you think of a a great span of time you think of a a great span of time you think of a a great company like HTC which was kind of our company like HTC which was kind of our company like HTC which was kind of our partner in crime for a long time but partner in crime for a long time but partner in crime for a long time but most but for the longest time they lived most but for the longest time they lived most but for the longest time they lived in the shadows all they were an odm and in the shadows all they were an odm and in the shadows all they were an odm and they basically you bought a phone that they basically you bought a phone that they basically you bought a phone that said this is the said this is the said this is the blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah 2475 all these were HTC devices but they 2475 all these were HTC devices but they 2475 all these were HTC devices but they were branded by the mobile operator and were branded by the mobile operator and were branded by the mobile operator and yeah there was so much control by the yeah there was so much control by the yeah there was so much control by the operator yeah yeah it it was their phone operator yeah yeah it it was their phone operator yeah yeah it it was their phone and their experience and all that kind and their experience and all that kind and their experience and all that kind of stuff well because back in the early of stuff well because back in the early of stuff well because back in the early days I mean you know you the things that days I mean you know you the things that days I mean you know you the things that connected to that Network needed to be connected to that Network needed to be connected to that Network needed to be very tightly controlled because the very tightly controlled because the very tightly controlled because the systems were pretty brittle back then systems were pretty brittle back then systems were pretty brittle back then and you couldn't just connect anything and you couldn't just connect anything and you couldn't just connect anything you wanted to that Network and so you you wanted to that Network and so you you wanted to that Network and so you know for a technical necessity there was know for a technical necessity there was know for a technical necessity there was a lot of requirements around what got a lot of requirements around what got a lot of requirements around what got connected that extended into cell phones connected that extended into cell phones connected that extended into cell phones and then ult it became kind of and then ult it became kind of and then ult it became kind of irrelevant but you know that that's why

irrelevant but you know that that's why irrelevant but you know that that's why there was that sort of thing you know there was that sort of thing you know there was that sort of thing you know back remember back in the day when you back remember back in the day when you back remember back in the day when you had a landline you got your phone from had a landline you got your phone from had a landline you got your phone from Bell Telephone right and that was you Bell Telephone right and that was you Bell Telephone right and that was you didn't go and buy any telephone you didn't go and buy any telephone you didn't go and buy any telephone you wanted I mean that would me no make no wanted I mean that would me no make no wanted I mean that would me no make no sense right so um it's funny how things sense right so um it's funny how things sense right so um it's funny how things kind of just kind of kept going extended kind of just kind of kept going extended kind of just kind of kept going extended until someone decided to disrupt the until someone decided to disrupt the until someone decided to disrupt the whole thing which is what we could talk whole thing which is what we could talk whole thing which is what we could talk about with cars or what we could talk about with cars or what we could talk about with cars or what we could talk about with any of these industries where about with any of these industries where about with any of these industries where they just get disrupted from a business they just get disrupted from a business they just get disrupted from a business model perspective or from a technology model perspective or from a technology model perspective or from a technology perspective what's also nuts is that you perspective what's also nuts is that you perspective what's also nuts is that you know from from a if you're developing an know from from a if you're developing an know from from a if you're developing an application with the network in mind as application with the network in mind as application with the network in mind as a developer you you have to adapt to a developer you you have to adapt to a developer you you have to adapt to this like one network which means your this like one network which means your this like one network which means your your your address of a market is is now your your address of a market is is now your your address of a market is is now much smaller because what happens when much smaller because what happens when much smaller because what happens when that Network switches to a Roaming that Network switches to a Roaming that Network switches to a Roaming Network a Wi-Fi Network a local plan Network a Wi-Fi Network a local plan Network a Wi-Fi Network a local plan Network a private something Network now Network a private something Network now Network a private something Network now you're you know your app scheme is is you're you know your app scheme is is you're you know your app scheme is is out is out of the window that's that's out is out of the window that's that's out is out of the window that's that's really tough to do so developers kind of really tough to do so developers kind of really tough to do so developers kind of said screw the network folks who who said screw the network folks who who said screw the network folks who who cares I'm going to do it this way and 20 cares I'm going to do it this way and 20 cares I'm going to do it this way and 20 years later I mean the way you know I years later I mean the way you know I years later I mean the way you know I mean I'm not an Apple fan boy I I mean I'm not an Apple fan boy I I mean I'm not an Apple fan boy I I couldn't even put it against an Android couldn't even put it against an Android couldn't even put it against an Android but I'm just going to get apple because but I'm just going to get apple because but I'm just going to get apple because all my stuff works all my stuff works all my stuff works and and as an ex carrier guy I'm one of and and as an ex carrier guy I'm one of and and as an ex carrier guy I'm one of them like I sto thinking about the them like I sto thinking about the them like I sto thinking about the network as much and that do breing my network as much and that do breing my network as much and that do breing my heart just so you know but it's not how

heart just so you know but it's not how heart just so you know but it's not how it is I sold it as hey if you buy my it is I sold it as hey if you buy my it is I sold it as hey if you buy my carrier you get your calls will connect carrier you get your calls will connect carrier you get your calls will connect in more places than the other guy and in more places than the other guy and in more places than the other guy and that was a that was a that was a fact now now the the the the buyer is at fact now now the the the the buyer is at fact now now the the the the buyer is at this you know this and what I use for it this you know this and what I use for it this you know this and what I use for it and as service is just a service it's uh and as service is just a service it's uh and as service is just a service it's uh it's it's it's it's crazy how how much it's it's it's it's crazy how how much it's it's it's it's crazy how how much it's changed in you know 15 David didn't it's changed in you know 15 David didn't it's changed in you know 15 David didn't your company tell Steve Jobs to go to your company tell Steve Jobs to go to your company tell Steve Jobs to go to hell old company in moreful language and hell old company in moreful language and hell old company in moreful language and then so he had to go to this decrepit then so he had to go to this decrepit then so he had to go to this decrepit company that's struggling to make it company that's struggling to make it company that's struggling to make it AT&T and they went for it because AT&T and they went for it because AT&T and they went for it because Verizon was too powerful at the time Verizon was too powerful at the time Verizon was too powerful at the time Verizon said we are so much bigger than Verizon said we are so much bigger than Verizon said we are so much bigger than 18 were the best network and so they're 18 were the best network and so they're 18 were the best network and so they're like take it or leave it yeah absolutely like take it or leave it yeah absolutely like take it or leave it yeah absolutely well and if if it wasn't for if it well and if if it wasn't for if it well and if if it wasn't for if it wasn't an exclusivity with AT&T there wasn't an exclusivity with AT&T there wasn't an exclusivity with AT&T there probably never would be an Android probably never would be an Android probably never would be an Android platform because Android was enabled platform because Android was enabled platform because Android was enabled because Verizon had to compete against because Verizon had to compete against because Verizon had to compete against apple and they had had nothing to work apple and they had had nothing to work apple and they had had nothing to work with except Android so they had to go with except Android so they had to go with except Android so they had to go all in on Android and really turn that all in on Android and really turn that all in on Android and really turn that into a legit platform so you know in in into a legit platform so you know in in into a legit platform so you know in in some Multiverse somewhere happening you some Multiverse somewhere happening you some Multiverse somewhere happening you know there is no Android in between the know there is no Android in between the know there is no Android in between the Android jump we had Blackberry couldn't Android jump we had Blackberry couldn't Android jump we had Blackberry couldn't deliver a touchcreen that's true I mean deliver a touchcreen that's true I mean deliver a touchcreen that's true I mean like so that that was that was in like so that that was that was in like so that that was that was in between and talk about another company between and talk about another company between and talk about another company that is like we know best you don't need that is like we know best you don't need that is like we know best you don't need a touchcreen okay we'll give you the

a touchcreen okay we'll give you the a touchcreen okay we'll give you the touchcreen it's not going to work touchcreen it's not going to work touchcreen it's not going to work properly you're holding it wrong you're properly you're holding it wrong you're properly you're holding it wrong you're holding it wrong have you seen that that holding it wrong have you seen that that holding it wrong have you seen that that that Blackberry movie it's Fant yes I that Blackberry movie it's Fant yes I that Blackberry movie it's Fant yes I loved it I loved it I love that movie loved it I loved it I love that movie loved it I loved it I love that movie that was really good I was great to see that was really good I was great to see that was really good I was great to see those guys in a garage doing the real those guys in a garage doing the real those guys in a garage doing the real thing I've got seven of them in my thing I've got seven of them in my thing I've got seven of them in my drawer still because I don't I love it drawer still because I don't I love it drawer still because I don't I love it how's that is that a little better and how's that is that a little better and how's that is that a little better and and and P with with the uh with the and and P with with the uh with the and and P with with the uh with the Android uh thing coming in you know Android uh thing coming in you know Android uh thing coming in you know that's also when we started getting uh I that's also when we started getting uh I that's also when we started getting uh I mean we call it bloat wear now yes yes mean we call it bloat wear now yes yes mean we call it bloat wear now yes yes crapware bloat wear whatever yeah it was crapware bloat wear whatever yeah it was crapware bloat wear whatever yeah it was that was also like the you know the that was also like the you know the that was also like the you know the beginning of it of you know you get beginning of it of you know you get beginning of it of you know you get these you know free free things and I'm these you know free free things and I'm these you know free free things and I'm like well I I don't want it yeah like like well I I don't want it yeah like like well I I don't want it yeah like and that and we face that in the PC and that and we face that in the PC and that and we face that in the PC World I remember buying like a Sony VIO World I remember buying like a Sony VIO World I remember buying like a Sony VIO laptop years ago Packard Bell you know laptop years ago Packard Bell you know laptop years ago Packard Bell you know you get a Packard Bell machine with like you get a Packard Bell machine with like you get a Packard Bell machine with like 93 icons on the desktop 93 icons on the desktop 93 icons on the desktop all all all crap printing program what does this crap printing program what does this crap printing program what does this printing program printing program printing program do well it's still mcafe virus and all do well it's still mcafe virus and all do well it's still mcafe virus and all antivirus they should have called it antivirus they should have called it antivirus they should have called it mcafe virus not MFE I just felt Bill mcafe virus not MFE I just felt Bill mcafe virus not MFE I just felt Bill Bill huitt shaking his grap and going Bill huitt shaking his grap and going Bill huitt shaking his grap and going like take the like take the like take the but you know that's what happens when but you know that's what happens when but you know that's what happens when the margins go to zero you know and PC the margins go to zero you know and PC the margins go to zero you know and PC makers have to monetize somehow and they makers have to monetize somehow and they makers have to monetize somehow and they tried so to show you I think the U that tried so to show you I think the U that tried so to show you I think the U that was I think for um because this is the

was I think for um because this is the was I think for um because this is the AR archaeology AR archaeology AR archaeology umey episode I think it was it was super umey episode I think it was it was super umey episode I think it was it was super cool how the you know how the PCS got cool how the you know how the PCS got cool how the you know how the PCS got you know uh democratized because outside you know uh democratized because outside you know uh democratized because outside of IBM you know I think it was um yeah of IBM you know I think it was um yeah of IBM you know I think it was um yeah it was HP right one of the early it was HP right one of the early it was HP right one of the early Builders comp comp comp but then they Builders comp comp comp but then they Builders comp comp comp but then they realized is like hold on we're not realized is like hold on we're not realized is like hold on we're not oeming this stuff we're just putting it oeming this stuff we're just putting it oeming this stuff we're just putting it together so does that mean that anyone together so does that mean that anyone together so does that mean that anyone else can just go get the parts and put else can just go get the parts and put else can just go get the parts and put it together yeah and look at all the it together yeah and look at all the it together yeah and look at all the stuff I think that was really really stuff I think that was really really stuff I think that was really really really good um I mean Sun systems really good um I mean Sun systems really good um I mean Sun systems eventually came out of that you know eventually came out of that you know eventually came out of that you know Paradigm too and you know that worked Paradigm too and you know that worked Paradigm too and you know that worked out so I don't know I I wish there was out so I don't know I I wish there was out so I don't know I I wish there was more of a you know parts are available more of a you know parts are available more of a you know parts are available that was a good example of taking a that was a good example of taking a that was a good example of taking a closed architecture and you know turning closed architecture and you know turning closed architecture and you know turning it into a a full-fledged open ecosystem it into a a full-fledged open ecosystem it into a a full-fledged open ecosystem where quote unquote anyone could build where quote unquote anyone could build where quote unquote anyone could build and ship a PC I actually worked at a and ship a PC I actually worked at a and ship a PC I actually worked at a company called bit bucket computers out company called bit bucket computers out company called bit bucket computers out of college and we built our own PC our of college and we built our own PC our of college and we built our own PC our own branded PCS in West Newton own branded PCS in West Newton own branded PCS in West Newton Massachusetts based on parts and we sold Massachusetts based on parts and we sold Massachusetts based on parts and we sold it into the corporate environment there it into the corporate environment there it into the corporate environment there we sold the Aron and a bunch of other we sold the Aron and a bunch of other we sold the Aron and a bunch of other folks and we were selling you know a th folks and we were selling you know a th folks and we were selling you know a th unit orders 2,000 unit orders and we unit orders 2,000 unit orders and we unit orders 2,000 unit orders and we sold them to the public you it was our sold them to the public you it was our sold them to the public you it was our own branded PCS we bought our cases own branded PCS we bought our cases own branded PCS we bought our cases somewhere we bought our power supplies somewhere we bought our power supplies somewhere we bought our power supplies and anyone could build a PC even and anyone could build a PC even and anyone could build a PC even us early 80s the z80 you could build us early 80s the z80 you could build us early 80s the z80 you could build your own computer right I think Radio

your own computer right I think Radio your own computer right I think Radio Shack Radio Shack kind of helped a lot Shack Radio Shack kind of helped a lot Shack Radio Shack kind of helped a lot of that with their Tandy stuff true yeah of that with their Tandy stuff true yeah of that with their Tandy stuff true yeah they went in with the the uh TI S80 they went in with the the uh TI S80 they went in with the the uh TI S80 model ones model threes you model ones model threes you model ones model threes you know IB know IB know IB PC Wang PC Wang PC Wang I worked on a wang terminal my first I worked on a wang terminal my first I worked on a wang terminal my first computer I touched was play Space war on computer I touched was play Space war on computer I touched was play Space war on a wang main frame somewhere wow I love a wang main frame somewhere wow I love a wang main frame somewhere wow I love that we are going way back in history that we are going way back in history that we are going way back in history folks this just to remind if you're just folks this just to remind if you're just folks this just to remind if you're just joining us this is the archaeology joining us this is the archaeology joining us this is the archaeology episode this is where Eric is going to episode this is where Eric is going to episode this is where Eric is going to talk to you about when IBM tried to get talk to you about when IBM tried to get talk to you about when IBM tried to get the horses back in the the horses back in the the horses back in the bar and I'm actually 146 I just take bar and I'm actually 146 I just take bar and I'm actually 146 I just take good care of yeah and so you might good care of yeah and so you might good care of yeah and so you might remember children when there was the remember children when there was the remember children when there was the Isis standard and then IBM was Lo Isis standard and then IBM was Lo Isis standard and then IBM was Lo control to the clones and so they control to the clones and so they control to the clones and so they created this thing called micr Channel created this thing called micr Channel created this thing called micr Channel and and and they and they launched the PS2 computer they and they launched the PS2 computer they and they launched the PS2 computer the PS2 Mouse and the os2 operating the PS2 Mouse and the os2 operating the PS2 Mouse and the os2 operating system back in the 80s to try to system back in the 80s to try to system back in the 80s to try to reclose the ecosystem that they had lost reclose the ecosystem that they had lost reclose the ecosystem that they had lost you know and uh yeah and what was you know and uh yeah and what was you know and uh yeah and what was interesting is they thought they could interesting is they thought they could interesting is they thought they could pull it off but uh right once the pull it off but uh right once the pull it off but uh right once the ecosystem opens ecosystem opens ecosystem opens up put back in there Rod Canyon at comp up put back in there Rod Canyon at comp up put back in there Rod Canyon at comp had so much power by then and he was had so much power by then and he was had so much power by then and he was buddies with our old boss Bill Gates and buddies with our old boss Bill Gates and buddies with our old boss Bill Gates and then he and Gates and Andy Grove were then he and Gates and Andy Grove were then he and Gates and Andy Grove were having private meetings every month and having private meetings every month and having private meetings every month and so when I when Intel decided to not give so when I when Intel decided to not give so when I when Intel decided to not give IBM an exclusive or first ride refusal

IBM an exclusive or first ride refusal IBM an exclusive or first ride refusal to the 386 chip that's when things to the 386 chip that's when things to the 386 chip that's when things started to unravel for IBM yeah it's started to unravel for IBM yeah it's started to unravel for IBM yeah it's like how did compact get a 386 before we like how did compact get a 386 before we like how did compact get a 386 before we did this is crazy um and then and then did this is crazy um and then and then did this is crazy um and then and then they're getting love yeah it was really they're getting love yeah it was really they're getting love yeah it was really interesting and so you know I I remember interesting and so you know I I remember interesting and so you know I I remember micr channel was going to change the micr channel was going to change the micr channel was going to change the game and then Rod Canyon got HP and all game and then Rod Canyon got HP and all game and then Rod Canyon got HP and all the other clone players together and the other clone players together and the other clone players together and created something called eisa which was created something called eisa which was created something called eisa which was 100% compatible while being faster the 100% compatible while being faster the 100% compatible while being faster the other funny thing is while the folks at other funny thing is while the folks at other funny thing is while the folks at compact were worried about microchannel compact were worried about microchannel compact were worried about microchannel it turns out IBM's own software was not it turns out IBM's own software was not it turns out IBM's own software was not working on IBM's Hardware running micr working on IBM's Hardware running micr working on IBM's Hardware running micr Channel which was kind of Channel which was kind of Channel which was kind of humorous it's like how did that happen humorous it's like how did that happen humorous it's like how did that happen actually there's actually a good movie actually there's actually a good movie actually there's actually a good movie on Netflix as well on this subject on Netflix as well on this subject on Netflix as well on this subject called I think seeon cboy something like called I think seeon cboy something like called I think seeon cboy something like that yes you should watch story of it's that yes you should watch story of it's that yes you should watch story of it's it's a really good one same as um as the it's a really good one same as um as the it's a really good one same as um as the one that Eric mentioned on on BlackBerry one that Eric mentioned on on BlackBerry one that Eric mentioned on on BlackBerry it's great yeah definitely watch silicon it's great yeah definitely watch silicon it's great yeah definitely watch silicon Cowboys I've seen it on Apple TV and so Cowboys I've seen it on Apple TV and so Cowboys I've seen it on Apple TV and so yeah because you got three guys from yeah because you got three guys from yeah because you got three guys from Texas Texas Texas Instruments not like you know jobs in Instruments not like you know jobs in Instruments not like you know jobs in wnc remember wnc getting permission from wnc remember wnc getting permission from wnc remember wnc getting permission from HP to build the apple one remember like HP to build the apple one remember like HP to build the apple one remember like I get to sign off my bosses remember I get to sign off my bosses remember I get to sign off my bosses remember remember your a boss Mr Gates getting a remember your a boss Mr Gates getting a remember your a boss Mr Gates getting a konel from IBM right maybe konel from IBM right maybe konel from IBM right maybe maybe because well because I was friends maybe because well because I was friends maybe because well because I was friends with four of the guys on the os2 team in with four of the guys on the os2 team in with four of the guys on the os2 team in Baton they ended up being on the net

Baton they ended up being on the net Baton they ended up being on the net compact framework team strangely enough compact framework team strangely enough compact framework team strangely enough years later and so you had Microsoft and years later and so you had Microsoft and years later and so you had Microsoft and IBM R there together building this thing IBM R there together building this thing IBM R there together building this thing os2 is a great system just you know I as os2 is a great system just you know I as os2 is a great system just you know I as as you're going down memory lane like I as you're going down memory lane like I as you're going down memory lane like I think all uh 70% of the big names we've think all uh 70% of the big names we've think all uh 70% of the big names we've said today are somehow tied to Stanford said today are somehow tied to Stanford said today are somehow tied to Stanford you know Stanford got you know a big IBM you know Stanford got you know a big IBM you know Stanford got you know a big IBM machine you know you know in the mid 60s machine you know you know in the mid 60s machine you know you know in the mid 60s and that you know opened up a lot of uh and that you know opened up a lot of uh and that you know opened up a lot of uh tinkering you know bill huitt was in the tinkering you know bill huitt was in the tinkering you know bill huitt was in the neighborhood pord was in the neighborhood pord was in the neighborhood pord was in the neighborhood and and this is before the neighborhood and and this is before the neighborhood and and this is before the young people the the the the gates and young people the the the the gates and young people the the the the gates and the jobs uh this is all like straight up the jobs uh this is all like straight up the jobs uh this is all like straight up coming out of Stanford yeah right that coming out of Stanford yeah right that coming out of Stanford yeah right that whole Mainframe history isn't I have a whole Mainframe history isn't I have a whole Mainframe history isn't I have a book on it and I I love all that stuff book on it and I I love all that stuff book on it and I I love all that stuff and boy did I not realize when I joined and boy did I not realize when I joined and boy did I not realize when I joined IBM at ' 88 it was the beginning of the IBM at ' 88 it was the beginning of the IBM at ' 88 it was the beginning of the end I mean look at where they um so end I mean look at where they um so end I mean look at where they um so there's another person that people don't there's another person that people don't there's another person that people don't talk to I don't Ross perau longtime IBM talk to I don't Ross perau longtime IBM talk to I don't Ross perau longtime IBM and he talked to Watson and said I and he talked to Watson and said I and he talked to Watson and said I really believe software is going to be really believe software is going to be really believe software is going to be more important than Hardware in the more important than Hardware in the more important than Hardware in the future and they're like you're crazy and future and they're like you're crazy and future and they're like you're crazy and he's like no I think this is what we he's like no I think this is what we he's like no I think this is what we should do and so Ross Pro leaves should do and so Ross Pro leaves should do and so Ross Pro leaves and builds EDS and I remember working and builds EDS and I remember working and builds EDS and I remember working for a chemical company and the first for a chemical company and the first for a chemical company and the first time I was like on a terminal you know time I was like on a terminal you know time I was like on a terminal you know doing my job and it turns out it was on doing my job and it turns out it was on doing my job and it turns out it was on a longdistance lease line to an EDS main a longdistance lease line to an EDS main a longdistance lease line to an EDS main frame like in Dallas or Plano and I'm in frame like in Dallas or Plano and I'm in frame like in Dallas or Plano and I'm in Houston and it was Ross Peru's stuff and

Houston and it was Ross Peru's stuff and Houston and it was Ross Peru's stuff and he just put that into action and he he just put that into action and he he just put that into action and he became a billionaire he saw something became a billionaire he saw something became a billionaire he saw something that Watson didn't see you know yeah it that Watson didn't see you know yeah it that Watson didn't see you know yeah it was interesting back then we had the you was interesting back then we had the you was interesting back then we had the you know the Mainframe business was the well know the Mainframe business was the well know the Mainframe business was the well that was the Computing business it that was the Computing business it that was the Computing business it shifted into desktop distributed PCS and shifted into desktop distributed PCS and shifted into desktop distributed PCS and now it shifted back to Blackwells you now it shifted back to Blackwells you now it shifted back to Blackwells you know running in air conditioned rooms know running in air conditioned rooms know running in air conditioned rooms which is you know kind of what main which is you know kind of what main which is you know kind of what main frames used to be and so how didm not frames used to be and so how didm not frames used to be and so how didm not capture this Cloud market right sacred capture this Cloud market right sacred capture this Cloud market right sacred cows right you're not going to go mess cows right you're not going to go mess cows right you're not going to go mess that Revenue stream up like I'm making that Revenue stream up like I'm making that Revenue stream up like I'm making too much money on CICS and db2 and the too much money on CICS and db2 and the too much money on CICS and db2 and the main frame should be the cloud main frame should be the cloud main frame should be the cloud yes s folks that yes s folks that yes s folks that should were they were already on should were they were already on should were they were already on services at that time when the cloud services at that time when the cloud services at that time when the cloud started to emerge so they were already started to emerge so they were already started to emerge so they were already of the software Loop gersner came in and of the software Loop gersner came in and of the software Loop gersner came in and gave some I thought he did a fantastic gave some I thought he did a fantastic gave some I thought he did a fantastic job breathing new life into things like job breathing new life into things like job breathing new life into things like web sphere and they bought rational web sphere and they bought rational web sphere and they bought rational before that but you know before that but you know before that but you know rational you I learned quickly that rational you I learned quickly that rational you I learned quickly that runtimes make money and tools do not runtimes make money and tools do not runtimes make money and tools do not right I think you might be on to right I think you might be on to right I think you might be on to something there you know G turned the something there you know G turned the something there you know G turned the gersner turned the company around a lot gersner turned the company around a lot gersner turned the company around a lot of people don't realize IBM in the early of people don't realize IBM in the early of people don't realize IBM in the early 90s had the largest collapse and layoff 90s had the largest collapse and layoff 90s had the largest collapse and layoff in the history of America oh yeah I was in the history of America oh yeah I was in the history of America oh yeah I was there like was it 250 employees 250,000 there like was it 250 employees 250,000 there like was it 250 employees 250,000 they had never done a layoff before in they had never done a layoff before in they had never done a layoff before in the 93 I believe it was and I watched the 93 I believe it was and I watched the 93 I believe it was and I watched person to my left gone person to my person to my left gone person to my person to my left gone person to my right and somehow I survived that but

right and somehow I survived that but right and somehow I survived that but then gner breathed new life into it and then gner breathed new life into it and then gner breathed new life into it and then they G I had a a guy on my board then they G I had a a guy on my board then they G I had a a guy on my board who worked for Lou he he ran to a who worked for Lou he he ran to a who worked for Lou he he ran to a wonderful man named Yan lindelow a wonderful man named Yan lindelow a wonderful man named Yan lindelow a Swedish gentleman and he took me aside Swedish gentleman and he took me aside Swedish gentleman and he took me aside he said look I time my retirement the he said look I time my retirement the he said look I time my retirement the same day of lose because we knew that same day of lose because we knew that same day of lose because we knew that the Old Guard was coming back in and the Old Guard was coming back in and the Old Guard was coming back in and going to turn this into a services and going to turn this into a services and going to turn this into a services and marketing organization sorry IBM I loved marketing organization sorry IBM I loved marketing organization sorry IBM I loved my career there but so interestingly IBM my career there but so interestingly IBM my career there but so interestingly IBM though is is still a very big Powerhouse though is is still a very big Powerhouse though is is still a very big Powerhouse in the finops you know for high in the finops you know for high in the finops you know for high performance Financial transactions they performance Financial transactions they performance Financial transactions they still building their own still building their own still building their own siliconing and they're doing a lot of siliconing and they're doing a lot of siliconing and they're doing a lot of great stuff in AI acceleration as well great stuff in AI acceleration as well great stuff in AI acceleration as well so they're going to keep innovating they so they're going to keep innovating they so they're going to keep innovating they have this locked in you know big part of have this locked in you know big part of have this locked in you know big part of the economy that's still running IBM on the economy that's still running IBM on the economy that's still running IBM on Prem is it is it real AI or is it a Prem is it is it real AI or is it a Prem is it is it real AI or is it a Mechanical Turk please Spill the Beans Mechanical Turk please Spill the Beans Mechanical Turk please Spill the Beans it's all these people in boar rone like it's all these people in boar rone like it's all these people in boar rone like typing very quickly we all know what typing very quickly we all know what typing very quickly we all know what wats you define real AI first what is wats you define real AI first what is wats you define real AI first what is well Rob they're still using the Watson well Rob they're still using the Watson well Rob they're still using the Watson branding it went from Watson iot branding it went from Watson iot branding it went from Watson iot marketing you know Banner to now ai you marketing you know Banner to now ai you marketing you know Banner to now ai you can't tell a Watson apart from a Watson can't tell a Watson apart from a Watson can't tell a Watson apart from a Watson there's I mean all branding it Trove me there's I mean all branding it Trove me there's I mean all branding it Trove me not yeah that's a whole other cautionary not yeah that's a whole other cautionary not yeah that's a whole other cautionary tale IB really took the lead on AI very tale IB really took the lead on AI very tale IB really took the lead on AI very early and uh they did kind of SE that I early and uh they did kind of SE that I early and uh they did kind of SE that I had friends that worked on Watson MD had friends that worked on Watson MD had friends that worked on Watson MD Anderson that came from proficient my Anderson that came from proficient my Anderson that came from proficient my old company and they would tell me kind old company and they would tell me kind old company and they would tell me kind of the truth underneath it and the truth of the truth underneath it and the truth of the truth underneath it and the truth was not not very good was it and they

was not not very good was it and they was not not very good was it and they had I remember early IBM had an early had I remember early IBM had an early had I remember early IBM had an early iot thing called Blue Mix oh yeah well iot thing called Blue Mix oh yeah well iot thing called Blue Mix oh yeah well that that that was PR BL miix were the jokes that Aaron was PR BL miix were the jokes that Aaron was PR BL miix were the jokes that Aaron and I used when we started building our and I used when we started building our and I used when we started building our stuff because I said I'd call it uh blue stuff because I said I'd call it uh blue stuff because I said I'd call it uh blue blue dicks and premix because it didn't blue dicks and premix because it didn't blue dicks and premix because it didn't matter they both didn't work and I'm matter they both didn't work and I'm matter they both didn't work and I'm like this is the wrong way to do it like this is the wrong way to do it like this is the wrong way to do it folks and then uh you know that's kind folks and then uh you know that's kind folks and then uh you know that's kind of what inspired us to be honest so of what inspired us to be honest so of what inspired us to be honest so thank you IBM thank you ge now let's thank you IBM thank you ge now let's thank you IBM thank you ge now let's throw some node red at our customer VAP throw some node red at our customer VAP throw some node red at our customer VAP node red yeah everyone differentiated node red yeah everyone differentiated node red yeah everyone differentiated product node red on top of something product node red on top of something product node red on top of something there there there exactly for all of our uh loyal um exactly for all of our uh loyal um exactly for all of our uh loyal um Watchers which are up to let me check Watchers which are up to let me check Watchers which are up to let me check three billion today uh when you heard three billion today uh when you heard three billion today uh when you heard blue mix if you saw uh Mr Bill Pew there blue mix if you saw uh Mr Bill Pew there blue mix if you saw uh Mr Bill Pew there on the bottom left like twitch he did on the bottom left like twitch he did on the bottom left like twitch he did that because IBM was pitching this that because IBM was pitching this that because IBM was pitching this magical energy consumption portfolio for magical energy consumption portfolio for magical energy consumption portfolio for the utilities and my man knows what's up the utilities and my man knows what's up the utilities and my man knows what's up so that's why he so that's why he so that's why he laughed hilarious hilarious it is laugh laughed hilarious hilarious it is laugh laughed hilarious hilarious it is laugh I mean call it what it what it is a I mean call it what it what it is a I mean call it what it what it is a rebranding on top of a rebranding on top rebranding on top of a rebranding on top rebranding on top of a rebranding on top of a rebranding right blue mix IBM of a rebranding right blue mix IBM of a rebranding right blue mix IBM garage right that's it y don't call it a garage right that's it y don't call it a garage right that's it y don't call it a comeback yeah was it ever comeback yeah was it ever comeback yeah was it ever in no we used to be told all the time in no we used to be told all the time in no we used to be told all the time you can't compete with predicts or blue you can't compete with predicts or blue you can't compete with predicts or blue mix and I said boy if that's the compe

mix and I said boy if that's the compe mix and I said boy if that's the compe technology wise no way am I worried technology wise no way am I worried technology wise no way am I worried can't compete with something that do can't compete with something that do can't compete with something that do exist oop exist oop exist oop sorry it's so true sorry it's so true sorry it's so true mect predict mect predict mect predict existed they had they had existed they had they had existed they had they had 7,984 Engineers working on it they did 7,984 Engineers working on it they did 7,984 Engineers working on it they did have a post press database they did have have a post press database they did have have a post press database they did have a p&l and it was primarily L yeah yes a p&l and it was primarily L yeah yes a p&l and it was primarily L yeah yes yeah yeah 7,000 plus developers yeah yeah yeah 7,000 plus developers yeah yeah yeah 7,000 plus developers yeah after I was I forgot on who podcast but after I was I forgot on who podcast but after I was I forgot on who podcast but one thing that uh and it made sense then one thing that uh and it made sense then one thing that uh and it made sense then there were a there were a there were a few I'm going to say I'm going to say few I'm going to say I'm going to say few I'm going to say I'm going to say real with air quotes so just bear with real with air quotes so just bear with real with air quotes so just bear with me here but there were a few customer me here but there were a few customer me here but there were a few customer stories where the customer agreed to use stories where the customer agreed to use stories where the customer agreed to use their name where it was incredibly their name where it was incredibly their name where it was incredibly positive to the predict story like like positive to the predict story like like positive to the predict story like like they saw benefits you know and and I they saw benefits you know and and I they saw benefits you know and and I remember years later finding out that remember years later finding out that remember years later finding out that all of these success stories which again all of these success stories which again all of these success stories which again were real had a ton of engineering were real had a ton of engineering were real had a ton of engineering support on the background which which is support on the background which which is support on the background which which is like great was it predict or was it the like great was it predict or was it the like great was it predict or was it the the people support you know it's kind the people support you know it's kind the people support you know it's kind like hey how many project managers do like hey how many project managers do like hey how many project managers do you had you know how you know so right you had you know how you know so right you had you know how you know so right the last decade of iot folks right the last decade of iot folks right the last decade of iot folks right that's what it's been Services Services that's what it's been Services Services that's what it's been Services Services Services well I can give you more colors Services well I can give you more colors Services well I can give you more colors I was at that time I mean you and I

I was at that time I mean you and I I was at that time I mean you and I think the the failure story has several think the the failure story has several think the the failure story has several Dimension to me the first one is to your Dimension to me the first one is to your Dimension to me the first one is to your point is uh is um David that initially point is uh is um David that initially point is uh is um David that initially predic was position as a toolbox for G predic was position as a toolbox for G predic was position as a toolbox for G that's how they did it and then there that's how they did it and then there that's how they did it and then there was a kind of a decision I think made by was a kind of a decision I think made by was a kind of a decision I think made by him at say well we can make a market of him at say well we can make a market of him at say well we can make a market of that can make a platform but then what that can make a platform but then what that can make a platform but then what really happened is that there was a lack really happened is that there was a lack really happened is that there was a lack of discipline at G itself and the of discipline at G itself and the of discipline at G itself and the different businesses said screw that I'm different businesses said screw that I'm different businesses said screw that I'm not going to use this platform if the not going to use this platform if the not going to use this platform if the different G businesses had gone on the different G businesses had gone on the different G businesses had gone on the platform start as a toolbox and use it platform start as a toolbox and use it platform start as a toolbox and use it and stick to the discipline the story be and stick to the discipline the story be and stick to the discipline the story be very very different because I would use very very different because I would use very very different because I would use case but there was big battle because case but there was big battle because case but there was big battle because Aviation said no this is crap I'm doing Aviation said no this is crap I'm doing Aviation said no this is crap I'm doing my own and power saying yeah I might do my own and power saying yeah I might do my own and power saying yeah I might do it but you have to change it for me and it but you have to change it for me and it but you have to change it for me and then there was a smart City guys for then there was a smart City guys for then there was a smart City guys for which no business model or will use it which no business model or will use it which no business model or will use it so he ended up being a fiasco from this so he ended up being a fiasco from this so he ended up being a fiasco from this standpoint because G had the opportunity standpoint because G had the opportunity standpoint because G had the opportunity to leverage his businesses to build a to leverage his businesses to build a to leverage his businesses to build a practical platform but actually try to practical platform but actually try to practical platform but actually try to go it outside and we've repeated that go it outside and we've repeated that go it outside and we've repeated that same process with the clouds for the same process with the clouds for the same process with the clouds for the last decade right we're all going to last decade right we're all going to last decade right we're all going to build our platform on the same Lego build our platform on the same Lego build our platform on the same Lego bricks and we're all going to call it a bricks and we're all going to call it a bricks and we're all going to call it a product when it's really framework for product when it's really framework for product when it's really framework for service Weare right that that is what service Weare right that that is what service Weare right that that is what has to change at this point I mean but has to change at this point I mean but has to change at this point I mean but is it is it even a framework for service is it is it even a framework for service is it is it even a framework for service layer I mean to me everything that I've layer I mean to me everything that I've layer I mean to me everything that I've seen in that space what turns out to be seen in that space what turns out to be seen in that space what turns out to be um a you know a UI or any of these other um a you know a UI or any of these other um a you know a UI or any of these other tools are typically engineering tool

tools are typically engineering tool tools are typically engineering tool tools that somebody said well we'll use tools that somebody said well we'll use tools that somebody said well we'll use that and we'll just go to market with it that and we'll just go to market with it that and we'll just go to market with it you got it that's exactly what it's been you got it that's exactly what it's been you got it that's exactly what it's been yeah but the other the other problem I yeah but the other the other problem I yeah but the other the other problem I think we talked about that ER on this think we talked about that ER on this think we talked about that ER on this show is that the the problem of show is that the the problem of show is that the the problem of industrial use cases is that there are industrial use cases is that there are industrial use cases is that there are fundamentally system integration fundamentally system integration fundamentally system integration projects so the incentive to standardize projects so the incentive to standardize projects so the incentive to standardize as you said and open to the others is as you said and open to the others is as you said and open to the others is very low because I'm intellectual very low because I'm intellectual very low because I'm intellectual property yeah there a very to me that's property yeah there a very to me that's property yeah there a very to me that's been the big big big problem of this been the big big big problem of this been the big big big problem of this industry so you have to look at IND industry so you have to look at IND industry so you have to look at IND where there is a real change well I mean where there is a real change well I mean where there is a real change well I mean there's a totally new use case and and there's a totally new use case and and there's a totally new use case and and the industry can be but all the other the industry can be but all the other the industry can be but all the other Industries where it's optimization oil Industries where it's optimization oil Industries where it's optimization oil and gas you know kind of stuff it's all and gas you know kind of stuff it's all and gas you know kind of stuff it's all about optimizing so I'm optimizing and about optimizing so I'm optimizing and about optimizing so I'm optimizing and what incentive do I have to open my what incentive do I have to open my what incentive do I have to open my optimization so I can make the root for optimization so I can make the root for optimization so I can make the root for the room for competitors and I think the room for competitors and I think the room for competitors and I think that's the real problem it's system that's the real problem it's system that's the real problem it's system integration and those Engineers seem to integration and those Engineers seem to integration and those Engineers seem to be closed because it protects the inal be closed because it protects the inal be closed because it protects the inal property y it's that but we're also property y it's that but we're also property y it's that but we're also building it such a low level we've got building it such a low level we've got building it such a low level we've got to raise raise it up you have to have the experts up you have to have the experts verticalized these things right oil and verticalized these things right oil and verticalized these things right oil and gas Transportation build you know talk gas Transportation build you know talk gas Transportation build you know talk about a space that's right for about a space that's right for about a space that's right for disruption let's talk about building disruption let's talk about building disruption let's talk about building management systems for for a second they management systems for for a second they management systems for for a second they they're don't talk about they're don't talk about they're don't talk about BMS it's scary so again uh you know BMS it's scary so again uh you know BMS it's scary so again uh you know we're having some success there and I'm we're having some success there and I'm we're having some success there and I'm surprised like how do you win against surprised like how do you win against surprised like how do you win against these monsters Honeywell and Schneider these monsters Honeywell and Schneider these monsters Honeywell and Schneider Electric and others well because these

Electric and others well because these Electric and others well because these systems are too closed you have to have systems are too closed you have to have systems are too closed you have to have open API and at least then then work open API and at least then then work open API and at least then then work with people who understand their with people who understand their with people who understand their buildings understand their buildings understand their buildings understand their infrastructure and give them enough infrastructure and give them enough infrastructure and give them enough freedom to morph that thing into what freedom to morph that thing into what freedom to morph that thing into what they want as opposed to the they want as opposed to the they want as opposed to the structure a choke hold on that space structure a choke hold on that space structure a choke hold on that space right now I mean I'm seeing I'm seeing right now I mean I'm seeing I'm seeing right now I mean I'm seeing I'm seeing the choke hoold loosen I can't talk the choke hoold loosen I can't talk the choke hoold loosen I can't talk about exact specifics but I've got a about exact specifics but I've got a about exact specifics but I've got a couple uh victories against the the couple uh victories against the the couple uh victories against the the choke holders well that's good choke holders well that's good choke holders well that's good we need more of that but you know I want we need more of that but you know I want we need more of that but you know I want to go back to the the standard Demetri to go back to the the standard Demetri to go back to the the standard Demetri you mentioned the standards and and you mentioned the standards and and you mentioned the standards and and everything like that the weakness all everything like that the weakness all everything like that the weakness all right so I'm Pro standard 100% yes yes right so I'm Pro standard 100% yes yes right so I'm Pro standard 100% yes yes yes at the end of the day is how did you yes at the end of the day is how did you yes at the end of the day is how did you implement that standard yeah so let me implement that standard yeah so let me implement that standard yeah so let me rephrase what I was saying by that I rephrase what I was saying by that I rephrase what I was saying by that I think I was more along the line of what think I was more along the line of what think I was more along the line of what Eric was saying is that the the the the Eric was saying is that the the the the Eric was saying is that the the the the the the I think the the keys and and I the the I think the the keys and and I the the I think the the keys and and I said that on the show earlier is said that on the show earlier is said that on the show earlier is abstraction the problem is abstraction abstraction the problem is abstraction abstraction the problem is abstraction can only come from the business user or can only come from the business user or can only come from the business user or the user the business level because to the user the business level because to the user the business level because to quote your example Eric of what IBM did quote your example Eric of what IBM did quote your example Eric of what IBM did with rational rational was a way to with rational rational was a way to with rational rational was a way to model your software and I was in the model your software and I was in the model your software and I was in the data modeling industry as well it data modeling industry as well it data modeling industry as well it actually failed with Engineers because actually failed with Engineers because actually failed with Engineers because they don't they're not interesting they they don't they're not interesting they they don't they're not interesting they want to go down the level the best use want to go down the level the best use want to go down the level the best use case for rational was I have a code I case for rational was I have a code I case for rational was I have a code I want to scan the code and generate the want to scan the code and generate the want to scan the code and generate the model was not doing the model and model was not doing the model and model was not doing the model and generate the code the other way around generate the code the other way around generate the code the other way around so the engineer level even if you and to so the engineer level even if you and to so the engineer level even if you and to your point I think Bill the the the your point I think Bill the the the your point I think Bill the the the engineer level if you force them into

engineer level if you force them into engineer level if you force them into standards you don't achieve anything standards you don't achieve anything standards you don't achieve anything because they don't really care and they because they don't really care and they because they don't really care and they see it as a threat but if you abstract see it as a threat but if you abstract see it as a threat but if you abstract so that the end user or the consumer so that the end user or the consumer so that the end user or the consumer level can then start I mean zapier and level can then start I mean zapier and level can then start I mean zapier and air table okay zaap here and air table air table okay zaap here and air table air table okay zaap here and air table are successful because the guys are say are successful because the guys are say are successful because the guys are say hey I have those two processes I want to hey I have those two processes I want to hey I have those two processes I want to connect them and I want to do a little connect them and I want to do a little connect them and I want to do a little bit database so I can manipulate the bit database so I can manipulate the bit database so I can manipulate the data and I do and I create value and the data and I do and I create value and the data and I do and I create value and the engineers going to tell you oh no it's engineers going to tell you oh no it's engineers going to tell you oh no it's not this it's not that it's not cql it's not this it's not that it's not cql it's not this it's not that it's not cql it's not blah BL blah blah so this element I not blah BL blah blah so this element I not blah BL blah blah so this element I don't disagree with you but how many don't disagree with you but how many don't disagree with you but how many people in the space truly understand people in the space truly understand people in the space truly understand abstraction people agree I agree but you abstraction people agree I agree but you abstraction people agree I agree but you know I mean but so so I mean we're we're know I mean but so so I mean we're we're know I mean but so so I mean we're we're asking them to do something that they're asking them to do something that they're asking them to do something that they're not accustomed to doing well it's not accustomed to doing well it's not accustomed to doing well it's secondarily I think and I mean working secondarily I think and I mean working secondarily I think and I mean working with so many different companies and and with so many different companies and and with so many different companies and and watching these things and listening to watching these things and listening to watching these things and listening to what they're doing I'm hearing the what they're doing I'm hearing the what they're doing I'm hearing the engineers based on user stories and engineers based on user stories and engineers based on user stories and requirements ask what's the business requirements ask what's the business requirements ask what's the business case for this case for this case for this I'm sorry Mr engineer get over there and I'm sorry Mr engineer get over there and I'm sorry Mr engineer get over there and sit to the side let the product manager sit to the side let the product manager sit to the side let the product manager actually write a set of user stories use actually write a set of user stories use actually write a set of user stories use cases and standards that need to be cases and standards that need to be cases and standards that need to be aligned to and you just deliver to that aligned to and you just deliver to that aligned to and you just deliver to that I'm not going to tell you how to design I'm not going to tell you how to design I'm not going to tell you how to design don't talk to me about the business case don't talk to me about the business case don't talk to me about the business case I guess at Demetri's point though aren't I guess at Demetri's point though aren't I guess at Demetri's point though aren't standards like guess these different standards like guess these different standards like guess these different verticals mature in their deployments verticals mature in their deployments verticals mature in their deployments the the the standards are driven more by the the the standards are driven more by the the the standards are driven more by the commercial customers that are the commercial customers that are the commercial customers that are requiring faster deployment that are Roi requiring faster deployment that are Roi requiring faster deployment that are Roi you know more less lock in right so so

you know more less lock in right so so you know more less lock in right so so it's in the oil and gas industry Chevron it's in the oil and gas industry Chevron it's in the oil and gas industry Chevron is really driving this the the is really driving this the the is really driving this the the requirement for standards and people requirement for standards and people requirement for standards and people like that were the buyers right it's not like that were the buyers right it's not like that were the buyers right it's not the implementers of the tech it's the the implementers of the tech it's the the implementers of the tech it's the it's the customers that have to pay and it's the customers that have to pay and it's the customers that have to pay and don't want to get locked into the honey don't want to get locked into the honey don't want to get locked into the honey Wells or whoever right yeah I Wells or whoever right yeah I Wells or whoever right yeah I think the challeng the real think the challeng the real think the challeng the real implementation is still expensive as implementation is still expensive as implementation is still expensive as long as we keep on having to pay 300K long as we keep on having to pay 300K long as we keep on having to pay 300K per year developers to to deliver the per year developers to to deliver the per year developers to to deliver the code they're going to have the power so code they're going to have the power so code they're going to have the power so maybe AI will be able to help them you maybe AI will be able to help them you maybe AI will be able to help them you know if AI can actually pilot I think know if AI can actually pilot I think know if AI can actually pilot I think it's called well no M AI but AI with the it's called well no M AI but AI with the it's called well no M AI but AI with the software the AI writing software the AI writing software the AI writing code I want to say I want to say two code I want to say I want to say two code I want to say I want to say two things about building management since things about building management since things about building management since you guys brought it up and I'm you guys brought it up and I'm you guys brought it up and I'm tangentially in that world as well um I tangentially in that world as well um I tangentially in that world as well um I did get to play around with Niagara did get to play around with Niagara did get to play around with Niagara which is probably one of the most full which is probably one of the most full which is probably one of the most full featured building management systems featured building management systems featured building management systems I've ever seen in my life I can't I've ever seen in my life I can't I've ever seen in my life I can't believe all the stuff I was seeing on believe all the stuff I was seeing on believe all the stuff I was seeing on the screen I guess they got acquired by the screen I guess they got acquired by the screen I guess they got acquired by seans um and that's an interesting world seans um and that's an interesting world seans um and that's an interesting world when you go into these Class A when you go into these Class A when you go into these Class A skyscrapers yeah they usually have all skyscrapers yeah they usually have all skyscrapers yeah they usually have all the good stuff already y now are they the good stuff already y now are they the good stuff already y now are they doing it right or whatever and this is doing it right or whatever and this is doing it right or whatever and this is like this goes back to like when I talk like this goes back to like when I talk like this goes back to like when I talk about iot companies you know startups about iot companies you know startups about iot companies you know startups don't go to Exxon and shell and thinking don't go to Exxon and shell and thinking don't go to Exxon and shell and thinking that you're going to sell your thing go that you're going to sell your thing go that you're going to sell your thing go to tier 2 oil and gas go to class B to tier 2 oil and gas go to class B to tier 2 oil and gas go to class B buildings go to tier 2 manufacturers buildings go to tier 2 manufacturers buildings go to tier 2 manufacturers because the guys with the big buck because the guys with the big buck because the guys with the big buck already have the best pet you got you already have the best pet you got you already have the best pet you got you got to work with the schlums and the got to work with the schlums and the got to work with the schlums and the baker Hues yes you abber they're the

baker Hues yes you abber they're the baker Hues yes you abber they're the experts when it comes to when it comes experts when it comes to when it comes experts when it comes to when it comes to the building management stuff too is to the building management stuff too is to the building management stuff too is they have relationships like with the they have relationships like with the they have relationships like with the elevator with the HVAC crew which the elevator with the HVAC crew which the elevator with the HVAC crew which the parking garages with the surveillance parking garages with the surveillance parking garages with the surveillance and security so they're there it's and security so they're there it's and security so they're there it's really peac Mill but the property really peac Mill but the property really peac Mill but the property managers will work with you know all of managers will work with you know all of managers will work with you know all of those vendors this building management those vendors this building management those vendors this building management company here they're from the UK I just company here they're from the UK I just company here they're from the UK I just read an article about them infogrid just read an article about them infogrid just read an article about them infogrid just saw it Newsfeed yesterday they raised saw it Newsfeed yesterday they raised saw it Newsfeed yesterday they raised $90 million last year in equity going $90 million last year in equity going $90 million last year in equity going after the same Market that I think a few after the same Market that I think a few after the same Market that I think a few of us are talking about here uh smart of us are talking about here uh smart of us are talking about here uh smart buildings what what smart read what's buildings what what smart read what's buildings what what smart read what's what are they doing different do they what are they doing different do they what are they doing different do they have a can their dashboard go into dark have a can their dashboard go into dark have a can their dashboard go into dark mode I don't know yeah they're democratizing this whole movement with democratizing this whole movement with intelligent infrastructure is real but intelligent infrastructure is real but intelligent infrastructure is real but boy is it messy um and and you know boy is it messy um and and you know boy is it messy um and and you know luckily and a part of some big luckily and a part of some big luckily and a part of some big Consortium groups that are going in Consortium groups that are going in Consortium groups that are going in actually into foreign countries right actually into foreign countries right actually into foreign countries right now um as part of the infrastructure and now um as part of the infrastructure and now um as part of the infrastructure and if that has success I think uh I think if that has success I think uh I think if that has success I think uh I think there could be some game-changing there could be some game-changing there could be some game-changing moments here right if you just provide moments here right if you just provide moments here right if you just provide the glue for people that are doing waste the glue for people that are doing waste the glue for people that are doing waste management and 3D printed housing and management and 3D printed housing and management and 3D printed housing and and agriculture it's it's fascinating and agriculture it's it's fascinating and agriculture it's it's fascinating what's going on there um well and in the what's going on there um well and in the what's going on there um well and in the building management space the property building management space the property building management space the property owners are kind of you know they're a owners are kind of you know they're a owners are kind of you know they're a lot has changed because of covid and and lot has changed because of covid and and lot has changed because of covid and and their number one prior prity is how do their number one prior prity is how do their number one prior prity is how do we get people back in the office how do we get people back in the office how do we get people back in the office how do we recover from the Lost lease space we recover from the Lost lease space we recover from the Lost lease space arrangements and contracts that we lost arrangements and contracts that we lost arrangements and contracts that we lost and so it there's a lot of really

and so it there's a lot of really and so it there's a lot of really creative so as technologists out there creative so as technologists out there creative so as technologists out there as vendors in this space you have to as vendors in this space you have to as vendors in this space you have to take it back to that level as opposed to take it back to that level as opposed to take it back to that level as opposed to oh I'm going to make this building smart oh I'm going to make this building smart oh I'm going to make this building smart well they're not thinking about that well they're not thinking about that well they're not thinking about that they're looking at we have 90% you know they're looking at we have 90% you know they're looking at we have 90% you know we went from 90% capacity to now 20% we went from 90% capacity to now 20% we went from 90% capacity to now 20% what are we Chicago's got 8 million what are we Chicago's got 8 million what are we Chicago's got 8 million square feet of available space right qu square feet of available space right qu square feet of available space right qu looking and it's the by far the highest looking and it's the by far the highest looking and it's the by far the highest in the history of the city right so in the history of the city right so in the history of the city right so they're like how do I not investing yeah they're like how do I not investing yeah they're like how do I not investing yeah how do I make this building in a put how do I make this building in a put how do I make this building in a put this building in a position where it's this building in a position where it's this building in a position where it's competitive where people are going to competitive where people are going to competitive where people are going to want to lease for me and not next door want to lease for me and not next door want to lease for me and not next door and they're doing that with common areas and they're doing that with common areas and they're doing that with common areas that have great TVs all this nice stuff that have great TVs all this nice stuff that have great TVs all this nice stuff they're not going to do it with you know they're not going to do it with you know they're not going to do it with you know the smart building stuff I'm with you I the smart building stuff I'm with you I the smart building stuff I'm with you I was it the Microsoft campus by the way was it the Microsoft campus by the way was it the Microsoft campus by the way last week the new Microsoft campus they last week the new Microsoft campus they last week the new Microsoft campus they built out there's plenty of parking built out there's plenty of parking built out there's plenty of parking there just in case anyone there just in case anyone there just in case anyone I'll tell you what I am seeing now in I'll tell you what I am seeing now in I'll tell you what I am seeing now in the building space I can't name names the building space I can't name names the building space I can't name names but it's all about Energy Efficiency but it's all about Energy Efficiency but it's all about Energy Efficiency they're wanting to basically um they they're wanting to basically um they they're wanting to basically um they want to make their commitments on carbon want to make their commitments on carbon want to make their commitments on carbon footprint and they want to be able to footprint and they want to be able to footprint and they want to be able to measure those savings and and it's been measure those savings and and it's been measure those savings and and it's been tricky because they got to stream data tricky because they got to stream data tricky because they got to stream data from all types of equipment and they and from all types of equipment and they and from all types of equipment and they and they don't just want to stay within the they don't just want to stay within the they don't just want to stay within the building they want the software to be building they want the software to be building they want the software to be able to say hey you know what I want to able to say hey you know what I want to able to say hey you know what I want to actually have my fleet involved in this actually have my fleet involved in this actually have my fleet involved in this as well but I want the same software and as well but I want the same software and as well but I want the same software and that's the flexibility thing that we're that's the flexibility thing that we're that's the flexibility thing that we're seeing some success with it's like okay seeing some success with it's like okay seeing some success with it's like okay these other things are building only and these other things are building only and these other things are building only and they're not going to get into my fleet

they're not going to get into my fleet they're not going to get into my fleet business but what if I had software that business but what if I had software that business but what if I had software that could monitor a truck as well as it could monitor a truck as well as it could monitor a truck as well as it could monitor a a radic Gateway that could monitor a a radic Gateway that could monitor a a radic Gateway that that that that's that's a the building that that that's that's a the building that that that's that's a the building but are they working are they working but are they working are they working but are they working are they working the utility the utility the utility because that's the key right there yeah because that's the key right there yeah because that's the key right there yeah because my dad's in commercial air because my dad's in commercial air because my dad's in commercial air conditioning and what been seeing for conditioning and what been seeing for conditioning and what been seeing for the last four or five years and this was the last four or five years and this was the last four or five years and this was happening during covid was the HVAC happening during covid was the HVAC happening during covid was the HVAC companies are working with the energy companies are working with the energy companies are working with the energy companies there's some collaboration companies there's some collaboration companies there's some collaboration going on because it's right now all going on because it's right now all going on because it's right now all about sustainability and trying to about sustainability and trying to about sustainability and trying to really be more economical inside the really be more economical inside the really be more economical inside the building with air with lighting energy building with air with lighting energy building with air with lighting energy usage they're trading they're trading usage they're trading they're trading usage they're trading they're trading that energy on the back end that's part that energy on the back end that's part that energy on the back end that's part of the changing business models it's of the changing business models it's of the changing business models it's happening and you nailed it Stephanie happening and you nailed it Stephanie happening and you nailed it Stephanie I'm seeing it in the HVAC space all over I'm seeing it in the HVAC space all over I'm seeing it in the HVAC space all over the and there's like they essentially the and there's like they essentially the and there's like they essentially have lost they have launched Consulting have lost they have launched Consulting have lost they have launched Consulting type services within these HVAC type services within these HVAC type services within these HVAC companies within the energy companies to companies within the energy companies to companies within the energy companies to go into large buildings small buildings go into large buildings small buildings go into large buildings small buildings and even all the way down to the home and even all the way down to the home and even all the way down to the home level and do an assessment essentially level and do an assessment essentially level and do an assessment essentially this like they just need someone to tell this like they just need someone to tell this like they just need someone to tell them what what can we change what can we them what what can we change what can we them what what can we change what can we and this Co iot because what they need and this Co iot because what they need and this Co iot because what they need to do is get to these variable speed to do is get to these variable speed to do is get to these variable speed motors things that they can control motors things that they can control motors things that they can control remotely it's fascinating because remotely it's fascinating because remotely it's fascinating because they're like we we've already squee we they're like we we've already squee we they're like we we've already squee we so much you know with the efficiency of so much you know with the efficiency of so much you know with the efficiency of the device but we need to get more by the device but we need to get more by the device but we need to get more by now utilizing iot so they're Brank the now utilizing iot so they're Brank the now utilizing iot so they're Brank the temp up to 75 you

temp up to 75 you temp up to 75 you know but I mean but that's what that's know but I mean but that's what that's know but I mean but that's what that's what they've always wanted right I mean what they've always wanted right I mean what they've always wanted right I mean they've had these programs in place for they've had these programs in place for they've had these programs in place for the longest right where they want to the longest right where they want to the longest right where they want to they want to do demand side management they want to do demand side management they want to do demand side management well from the Utility side as a service well from the Utility side as a service well from the Utility side as a service and they you know they it's an optin now and they you know they it's an optin now and they you know they it's an optin now I see it on the commercial side as I see it on the commercial side as I see it on the commercial side as something that's beneficial from the something that's beneficial from the something that's beneficial from the consumer side they say hey we want to consumer side they say hey we want to consumer side they say hey we want to control your pool pump oh by the way you control your pool pump oh by the way you control your pool pump oh by the way you live in Texas damn it's 98° let me turn live in Texas damn it's 98° let me turn live in Texas damn it's 98° let me turn your your thermostat to to 80 and you your your thermostat to to 80 and you your your thermostat to to 80 and you just sit there and stew a little bit and just sit there and stew a little bit and just sit there and stew a little bit and then you know we'll kind of give you a then you know we'll kind of give you a then you know we'll kind of give you a little bit of relief right around 9900 little bit of relief right around 9900 little bit of relief right around 9900 PM when it's still 98 Degrees um I mean PM when it's still 98 Degrees um I mean PM when it's still 98 Degrees um I mean I see it on the commercial side as being I see it on the commercial side as being I see it on the commercial side as being useful I don't see it on the consumer useful I don't see it on the consumer useful I don't see it on the consumer side because people will opt in and then side because people will opt in and then side because people will opt in and then they'll they override they're like no they'll they override they're like no they'll they override they're like no forget that damn it's too hot up in here forget that damn it's too hot up in here forget that damn it's too hot up in here and I'm sitting here sweating just and I'm sitting here sweating just and I'm sitting here sweating just thinking but if you can apply hard Ai thinking but if you can apply hard Ai thinking but if you can apply hard Ai and do that in the right time period and do that in the right time period and do that in the right time period right and you know based on location right and you know based on location right and you know based on location based on weather based on all sorts of based on weather based on all sorts of based on weather based on all sorts of things I think that's the Innovation things I think that's the Innovation things I think that's the Innovation you'll see but I'm with you Bill I think you'll see but I'm with you Bill I think you'll see but I'm with you Bill I think it's I think there's going to end up it's I think there's going to end up it's I think there's going to end up being two grids there's a GD grid for a being two grids there's a GD grid for a being two grids there's a GD grid for a power grid for consumers where they're power grid for consumers where they're power grid for consumers where they're going to get the short end of the stick going to get the short end of the stick going to get the short end of the stick and they're going to be sweating and and they're going to be sweating and and they're going to be sweating and then there's going to be the commercial then there's going to be the commercial then there's going to be the commercial grid where we're going to run AI data grid where we're going to run AI data grid where we're going to run AI data centers and it's going to be fantastic centers and it's going to be fantastic centers and it's going to be fantastic sounds sounds sounds like Network the consumer grid is going like Network the consumer grid is going like Network the consumer grid is going to be Community energy storage where to be Community energy storage where to be Community energy storage where they're going to be true be self-powered they're going to be true be self-powered they're going to be true be self-powered more self-powered stuff yeah it's going more self-powered stuff yeah it's going more self-powered stuff yeah it's going to Happ there's the Texas grid the

what hey all the all the co-ops in Texas what hey all the all the co-ops in Texas too right I mean there's no there's no too right I mean there's no there's no too right I mean there's no there's no Texas grid there's there's Ott and figure out a way to harvest uh golf and figure out a way to harvest uh golf Hil and turn that into energy no they did you energy no they did you saw too soon spins a turbine too soon saw too soon spins a turbine too soon saw too soon spins a turbine too soon Stephanie's got PTSD over there there is Stephanie's got PTSD over there there is Stephanie's got PTSD over there there is a there is AAS exactly there is a Texas a there is AAS exactly there is a Texas a there is AAS exactly there is a Texas grid from what I learned recently Three grid from what I learned recently Three grid from what I learned recently Three G in the US there's West East G in the US there's West East G in the US there's West East andex that I mean if if you're looking andex that I mean if if you're looking andex that I mean if if you're looking at it as a map there's a grid of the at it as a map there's a grid of the at it as a map there's a grid of the state first Texas but it's separate it's state first Texas but it's separate it's state first Texas but it's separate it's separate from the rest of the country separate from the rest of the country separate from the rest of the country separate yeah no Texas is its own separate yeah no Texas is its own separate yeah no Texas is its own country it's its own y weeded country it's its own y weeded country it's its own y weeded Bill we see the same in Bill we see the same in Bill we see the same in California yeah no C California California yeah no C California California yeah no C California California is is the interesting part is California is is the interesting part is California is is the interesting part is having lived in California and now having lived in California and now having lived in California and now living in Texas I'm living in Texas I'm living in Texas I'm like I didn't defect from anywhere no be like I didn't defect from anywhere no be like I didn't defect from anywhere no be careful though get to get those careful though get to get those careful though get to get those California off your car the same I did California off your car the same I did California off your car the same I did that before we ever even landed you were that before we ever even landed you were that before we ever even landed you were smarter than I was I had a sports car in smarter than I was I had a sports car in smarter than I was I had a sports car in the middle of bunch of trucks and the middle of bunch of trucks and the middle of bunch of trucks and California plates and I realized why do California plates and I realized why do California plates and I realized why do I keep getting run off the road I off my I keep getting run off the road I off my I keep getting run off the road I off my car that's why that's

car that's why that's car that's why that's why California is a cuss word in Texas why California is a cuss word in Texas why California is a cuss word in Texas yeah it is and then I have to tell yeah it is and then I have to tell yeah it is and then I have to tell people I'm actually from Chicago I just people I'm actually from Chicago I just people I'm actually from Chicago I just took a pit stop in San Francisco for a took a pit stop in San Francisco for a took a pit stop in San Francisco for a while right it's word the mwest too yeah while right it's word the mwest too yeah while right it's word the mwest too yeah so here's some ancient Compu history so here's some ancient Compu history so here's some ancient Compu history trivia here the pull it back ancient trivia here the pull it back ancient trivia here the pull it back ancient times so when Steve Jobs got fired from times so when Steve Jobs got fired from times so when Steve Jobs got fired from Apple who was the person who came to his Apple who was the person who came to his Apple who was the person who came to his Aid and said I believe in you and I'm Aid and said I believe in you and I'm Aid and said I believe in you and I'm backing you whatever you do before Steve backing you whatever you do before Steve backing you whatever you do before Steve Jobs thought of anything oh and I've Jobs thought of anything oh and I've Jobs thought of anything oh and I've mentioned his name previously mentioned his name previously mentioned his name previously in nope no it was whatever he helped in nope no it was whatever he helped in nope no it was whatever he helped with next right that's right but prior with next right that's right but prior with next right that's right but prior to next no prior to next prior to next to next no prior to next prior to next to next no prior to next prior to next well but yeah next was as barely a well but yeah next was as barely a well but yeah next was as barely a twinkle it was like I believe in you you twinkle it was like I believe in you you twinkle it was like I believe in you you know have VCS often say we're betting on know have VCS often say we're betting on know have VCS often say we're betting on the team yeah yeah okay it's Ross perau the team yeah yeah okay it's Ross perau the team yeah yeah okay it's Ross perau Ross perau Ross per there's there's a Ross perau Ross per there's there's a Ross perau Ross per there's there's a there's a great photo when Ross per there's a great photo when Ross per there's a great photo when Ross per passed away I remember posting a photo passed away I remember posting a photo passed away I remember posting a photo of Ross Pro with his arm around Steve of Ross Pro with his arm around Steve of Ross Pro with his arm around Steve Jobs he called Steve Jobs like right Jobs he called Steve Jobs like right Jobs he called Steve Jobs like right away he's like I believe in you and I'm away he's like I believe in you and I'm away he's like I believe in you and I'm gonna back you whatever you want to do gonna back you whatever you want to do gonna back you whatever you want to do and so Ross perau is the backer of next and so Ross perau is the backer of next and so Ross perau is the backer of next Rob you're in Dallas did you go to the Rob you're in Dallas did you go to the Rob you're in Dallas did you go to the perau museum while you're there I have perau museum while you're there I have perau museum while you're there I have not no but I'm in Plano right now not not no but I'm in Plano right now not not no but I'm in Plano right now not far from the godp Pod you know far from the godp Pod you know far from the godp Pod you know so you know I get it I get it no it's so you know I get it I get it no it's so you know I get it I get it no it's cool little I love I love the history of cool little I love I love the history of cool little I love I love the history of stuff it's good to watch things like stuff it's good to watch things like stuff it's good to watch things like Silicon Cowboys tryumph for the nerds or Silicon Cowboys tryumph for the nerds or Silicon Cowboys tryumph for the nerds or read accidental Empires to find out how

read accidental Empires to find out how read accidental Empires to find out how we got to where we are revenge on the we got to where we are revenge on the we got to where we are revenge on the Nerds remember that one that Nerds remember that one that Nerds remember that one that was exploding the phone is a good book was exploding the phone is a good book was exploding the phone is a good book as well yeah some people went left as well yeah some people went left as well yeah some people went left instead of right they made this ision instead of right they made this ision instead of right they made this ision instead of that it Chang it the whole instead of that it Chang it the whole instead of that it Chang it the whole history of what we're doing Windows history of what we're doing Windows history of what we're doing Windows Phone WTF you know add that Windows Phone WTF you know add that Windows Phone WTF you know add that Windows Phone WTF you know Eric I am sure that Phone WTF you know Eric I am sure that Phone WTF you know Eric I am sure that there were a bunch of sales guys at IBM there were a bunch of sales guys at IBM there were a bunch of sales guys at IBM in the early days selling os2 that were in the early days selling os2 that were in the early days selling os2 that were probably just selling to insurance probably just selling to insurance probably just selling to insurance companies and Banks and they probably companies and Banks and they probably companies and Banks and they probably said business is great yes I me that's said business is great yes I me that's said business is great yes I me that's what State Farm All State first licenses what State Farm All State first licenses what State Farm All State first licenses I mean and so they're like we're gonna I mean and so they're like we're gonna I mean and so they're like we're gonna kill windows we this is awesome yeah you kill windows we this is awesome yeah you kill windows we this is awesome yeah you know State Farm was a big 2 user huge know State Farm was a big 2 user huge know State Farm was a big 2 user huge first visual age yeah there you go first visual age yeah there you go first visual age yeah there you go visual age which which every just to re visual age which which every just to re visual age which which every just to re hash all of clear blade is written in hash all of clear blade is written in hash all of clear blade is written in visual visual visual age I have articles you can look them up age I have articles you can look them up age I have articles you can look them up back in the 90s yeah draw your arrows back in the 90s yeah draw your arrows back in the 90s yeah draw your arrows baby yeah when I was in high school do baby yeah when I was in high school do baby yeah when I was in high school do you have to do a disclaimer when you're you have to do a disclaimer when you're you have to do a disclaimer when you're selling your product there Eric that's selling your product there Eric that's selling your product there Eric that's like it runs only on os2 no no my like it runs only on os2 no no my like it runs only on os2 no no my disclaimer is I have not touched a disclaimer is I have not touched a disclaimer is I have not touched a single the line of code I handed that to single the line of code I handed that to single the line of code I handed that to Aon sbren team and I just helped with Aon sbren team and I just helped with Aon sbren team and I just helped with vision I stayed out of the coding age it vision I stayed out of the coding age it vision I stayed out of the coding age it runs I also had this questions actually runs I also had this questions actually runs I also had this questions actually I I also had this question like did you I I also had this question like did you I I also had this question like did you code these and no no smart enough to say you know no you

no smart enough to say you know no you know we we'll keep you out of this now know we we'll keep you out of this now know we we'll keep you out of this now I'm like okay that's I'm like okay that's I'm like okay that's awesome wow the edge so you talked early awesome wow the edge so you talked early awesome wow the edge so you talked early at the call about opening up the edge at the call about opening up the edge at the call about opening up the edge people do what does that mean people do what does that mean people do what does that mean EDI I'm curious what it means your EDI I'm curious what it means your EDI I'm curious what it means your perspective youve got to have software perspective youve got to have software perspective youve got to have software that's just sits above the operating that's just sits above the operating that's just sits above the operating system layer that is open API and that system layer that is open API and that system layer that is open API and that basically is identical to what runs in basically is identical to what runs in basically is identical to what runs in the cloud and then you you accept all the cloud and then you you accept all the cloud and then you you accept all Hardware that runs in our case Linux Hardware that runs in our case Linux Hardware that runs in our case Linux right we still you want to move down right we still you want to move down right we still you want to move down even further to Tiny ML and our toss and even further to Tiny ML and our toss and even further to Tiny ML and our toss and there's some things that that we part there's some things that that we part there's some things that that we part but you also have to play nice with but you also have to play nice with but you also have to play nice with others that means when you're open that others that means when you're open that others that means when you're open that means your stuff can run next to someone means your stuff can run next to someone means your stuff can run next to someone else stuff that they have and you make else stuff that they have and you make else stuff that they have and you make that interoperable you don't try to own that interoperable you don't try to own that interoperable you don't try to own the edge and you know the hardware the edge and you know the hardware the edge and you know the hardware companies some of them are pretty closed companies some of them are pretty closed companies some of them are pretty closed I don't want to name names to get in I don't want to name names to get in I don't want to name names to get in trouble but I see it in rail all the trouble but I see it in rail all the trouble but I see it in rail all the time right and it's really instead of an time right and it's really instead of an time right and it's really instead of an open Edge it's a what I consult consider open Edge it's a what I consult consider open Edge it's a what I consult consider purpose-built software to do one thing purpose-built software to do one thing purpose-built software to do one thing what if it's open software to do more what if it's open software to do more what if it's open software to do more than monitor just a Crossing but a than monitor just a Crossing but a than monitor just a Crossing but a switch a locomotive a heater and then switch a locomotive a heater and then switch a locomotive a heater and then apply that across apply that across apply that across industry I think the winners in that industry I think the winners in that industry I think the winners in that space are going to be people that play space are going to be people that play space are going to be people that play nice with others so you're open enough nice with others so you're open enough nice with others so you're open enough to interoperate the Ed I think to that to interoperate the Ed I think to that to interoperate the Ed I think to that end I think you're going to see that end I think you're going to see that end I think you're going to see that you're going to see that in the in the you're going to see that in the in the you're going to see that in the in the City municipal space as a City municipal space as a City municipal space as a requirement because I mean to for me uh requirement because I mean to for me uh requirement because I mean to for me uh it's it's usually rather than me it's it's usually rather than me it's it's usually rather than me approach a company and say hey let's

approach a company and say hey let's approach a company and say hey let's partner together and let me build a partner together and let me build a partner together and let me build a digital twin I want to run a web agent digital twin I want to run a web agent digital twin I want to run a web agent in your device right I want to run that in your device right I want to run that in your device right I want to run that on the edge right and it's more than on the edge right and it's more than on the edge right and it's more than container management this is what people container management this is what people container management this is what people it's not just container management it's not just container management it's not just container management that's a piece of it right but but we that's a piece of it right but but we that's a piece of it right but but we can't be custom building so much you can't be custom building so much you can't be custom building so much you just it'll never get there it'll never just it'll never get there it'll never just it'll never get there it'll never get there you just wna you just want to get there you just wna you just want to get there you just wna you just want to say give me a little bit of space let me say give me a little bit of space let me say give me a little bit of space let me drop this on there and and I'm G to drop this on there and and I'm G to drop this on there and and I'm G to respect the I'm going to respect my area respect the I'm going to respect my area respect the I'm going to respect my area you yeah give me give me 40 megabytes on you yeah give me give me 40 megabytes on you yeah give me give me 40 megabytes on on on Linux and you can use the rest of on on Linux and you can use the rest of on on Linux and you can use the rest of it and and we can put the whole thing on it and and we can put the whole thing on it and and we can put the whole thing on there that's the only thing I'm doing is there that's the only thing I'm doing is there that's the only thing I'm doing is I'm building this distributed Edge CL I'm building this distributed Edge CL I'm building this distributed Edge CL thing but I'm just building the thing but I'm just building the thing but I'm just building the infrastructure you know I'm using aomu infrastructure you know I'm using aomu infrastructure you know I'm using aomu and and open stack and microcloud now and and open stack and microcloud now and and open stack and microcloud now the the thing though that that that does the the thing though that that that does the the thing though that that that does get to me and this will come back to get to me and this will come back to get to me and this will come back to something that I think we talked about a something that I think we talked about a something that I think we talked about a long time ago and that is you're you're long time ago and that is you're you're long time ago and that is you're you're going to see the emergence of s bombs at going to see the emergence of s bombs at going to see the emergence of s bombs at that that that point s bombs software build material point s bombs software build material point s bombs software build material material oh yes yes yes oh definitely material oh yes yes yes oh definitely material oh yes yes yes oh definitely yes I mean I've got customers already yes I mean I've got customers already yes I mean I've got customers already building this into their their their building this into their their their building this into their their their schema which is hey clear blade get your schema which is hey clear blade get your schema which is hey clear blade get your price to where I need it price to where I need it price to where I need it basically which at volume you're like basically which at volume you're like basically which at volume you're like sure right yeah right to be honest Edge sure right yeah right to be honest Edge sure right yeah right to be honest Edge is kind of like sleeves out of my vest is kind of like sleeves out of my vest is kind of like sleeves out of my vest right I'm not running the cloud I'm not right I'm not running the cloud I'm not right I'm not running the cloud I'm not paying for the CPU if I have all this paying for the CPU if I have all this paying for the CPU if I have all this functionality and run a contract that functionality and run a contract that functionality and run a contract that says you're going to do x million

says you're going to do x million says you're going to do x million devices here you go I'll make it fit devices here you go I'll make it fit devices here you go I'll make it fit your bomb absolutely so Stephanie I your bomb absolutely so Stephanie I your bomb absolutely so Stephanie I think we've reach thinking when you think we've reach thinking when you think we've reach thinking when you first said that I wasn't paying first said that I wasn't paying first said that I wasn't paying attention Rob what were you saying no attention Rob what were you saying no attention Rob what were you saying no I'm just saying Stephanie I would love I'm just saying Stephanie I would love I'm just saying Stephanie I would love for you to take us out we've reached the for you to take us out we've reached the for you to take us out we've reached the end of the show yes we have so let's end of the show yes we have so let's end of the show yes we have so let's let's just take well what do we talk let's just take well what do we talk let's just take well what do we talk about today we we talked about artifacts about today we we talked about artifacts about today we we talked about artifacts and Relics and history and art we really and Relics and history and art we really and Relics and history and art we really dug deep we everything old is new again dug deep we everything old is new again dug deep we everything old is new again exactly everything comes full circle in exactly everything comes full circle in exactly everything comes full circle in iot coffee talk so check out all of our iot coffee talk so check out all of our iot coffee talk so check out all of our episodes at iot cof episodes at iot cof episodes at iot cof talk.com follow us like us share us talk.com follow us like us share us talk.com follow us like us share us we're all all over the what do you call we're all all over the what do you call we're all all over the what do you call it Leonard Rob the intb the you guys it Leonard Rob the intb the you guys it Leonard Rob the intb the you guys have some crazy stories also Elevate our have some crazy stories also Elevate our have some crazy stories also Elevate our kids right go ahead and get a hoodie a kids right go ahead and get a hoodie a kids right go ahead and get a hoodie a t-shirt elevat our kids.org you'll find t-shirt elevat our kids.org you'll find t-shirt elevat our kids.org you'll find some links to do that and you'll support some links to do that and you'll support some links to do that and you'll support kids that are we are helping Bridge the kids that are we are helping Bridge the kids that are we are helping Bridge the digital divide thank you so much have a digital divide thank you so much have a digital divide thank you so much have a good week much love hi folks thanks good week much love hi folks thanks good week much love hi folks thanks Stephanie thanks Rob oh love the Stephanie thanks Rob oh love the Stephanie thanks Rob oh love the balloons I love the balloons I love the balloons I love the balloons I just need 99 left