IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 289 - "The Shoe of Unreasonable Expectations"

Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I love it. I love it. >> I love it. I love it. >> I love it. I love it. >> Wow. Welcome. >> Wow. Welcome. >> Wow. Welcome. >> We were floating there. It was smooth, >> We were floating there. It was smooth, >> We were floating there. It was smooth, you know. you know. you know. >> Yeah. The ultimate >> Yeah. The ultimate >> Yeah. The ultimate yacht rock station. But yeah, yacht rock station. But yeah, yacht rock station. But yeah, >> iootg coffee talk.com. >> iootg coffee talk.com. >> iootg coffee talk.com. >> I don't know if a lot of people didn't >> I don't know if a lot of people didn't >> I don't know if a lot of people didn't realize that that's what this really is realize that that's what this really is realize that that's what this really is is a yacht rock station, you know. Uh is a yacht rock station, you know. Uh is a yacht rock station, you know. Uh >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Screw that Van Halen >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Screw that Van Halen >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Screw that Van Halen band, right? band, right? band, right? >> Exactly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. >> Exactly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. >> Exactly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. >> Well, you know, we were just talking >> Well, you know, we were just talking >> Well, you know, we were just talking about how one of the greatest yacht rock about how one of the greatest yacht rock about how one of the greatest yacht rock bands bands bands >> in the world were a bunch of studio >> in the world were a bunch of studio >> in the world were a bunch of studio musicians, right? musicians, right? musicians, right? >> Right. Right. They were just good. And >> Right. Right. They were just good. And >> Right. Right. They were just good. And you're right. You talked earlier, some you're right. You talked earlier, some you're right. You talked earlier, some of these guys were kind of this jazz of these guys were kind of this jazz of these guys were kind of this jazz musicians and you saw this fusion of musicians and you saw this fusion of musicians and you saw this fusion of jazz rock. Well, it's kind of like uh jazz rock. Well, it's kind of like uh jazz rock. Well, it's kind of like uh like Steely Dan was hard to define what like Steely Dan was hard to define what like Steely Dan was hard to define what kind of music they were cuz a lot of kind of music they were cuz a lot of kind of music they were cuz a lot of their stuff was kind of a lot of jazzy, their stuff was kind of a lot of jazzy, their stuff was kind of a lot of jazzy, you know. you know. you know. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> actually, yeah, you're right. >> actually, yeah, you're right. >> actually, yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, when you think about it. And and >> Yeah, when you think about it. And and >> Yeah, when you think about it. And and those two guys always I heard they hired those two guys always I heard they hired those two guys always I heard they hired they had guys for every couple and I they had guys for every couple and I they had guys for every couple and I heard they were just brutal. uh and just heard they were just brutal. uh and just heard they were just brutal. uh and just again again, you know, until they just again again, you know, until they just again again, you know, until they just got this perfect thing. But yeah, you got this perfect thing. But yeah, you got this perfect thing. But yeah, you listen to an album like Asia, you know, listen to an album like Asia, you know, listen to an album like Asia, you know, from Steely Dan and it's like, is this from Steely Dan and it's like, is this from Steely Dan and it's like, is this rock? Is this jazz? Is this some kind of rock? Is this jazz? Is this some kind of rock? Is this jazz? Is this some kind of fusion?

fusion? fusion? >> It's the kind of music though that you >> It's the kind of music though that you >> It's the kind of music though that you want to listen to like when we're late want to listen to like when we're late want to listen to like when we're late night at a bar on the top of a building night at a bar on the top of a building night at a bar on the top of a building in Vegas in Vegas in Vegas >> and, you know, just chilling having a >> and, you know, just chilling having a >> and, you know, just chilling having a scotch or whatever and looking out over scotch or whatever and looking out over scotch or whatever and looking out over the city and Yeah. you want a little bit the city and Yeah. you want a little bit the city and Yeah. you want a little bit of yacht rock going there. of yacht rock going there. of yacht rock going there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Or if you're actually on a >> Yeah. Yeah. Or if you're actually on a >> Yeah. Yeah. Or if you're actually on a yacht or you're out there on the ocean yacht or you're out there on the ocean yacht or you're out there on the ocean like you've been. like you've been. like you've been. >> Yeah. Yeah. On a cruise. >> Yeah. Yeah. On a cruise. >> Yeah. Yeah. On a cruise. >> On a cruise, you know. >> On a cruise, you know. >> On a cruise, you know. >> Yeah. And you know what? If um so yeah, >> Yeah. And you know what? If um so yeah, >> Yeah. And you know what? If um so yeah, this is this is a little bit of this is this is a little bit of this is this is a little bit of um a makeup. No, it's not really makeup. um a makeup. No, it's not really makeup. um a makeup. No, it's not really makeup. We're We're still We're We're still We're We're still >> We're still recording. Yeah, we're doing >> We're still recording. Yeah, we're doing >> We're still recording. Yeah, we're doing it. it. it. >> Um but yeah, it's a little bit off an >> Um but yeah, it's a little bit off an >> Um but yeah, it's a little bit off an offtempo episode, right? It's sort of offtempo episode, right? It's sort of offtempo episode, right? It's sort of fitting in between two quarter notes. fitting in between two quarter notes. fitting in between two quarter notes. >> Uh, but we're recording on a Saturday, >> Uh, but we're recording on a Saturday, >> Uh, but we're recording on a Saturday, which is unusual, but we figured, hey, which is unusual, but we figured, hey, which is unusual, but we figured, hey, we got to get this thing out out there. we got to get this thing out out there. we got to get this thing out out there. If we recorded yesterday, If we recorded yesterday, If we recorded yesterday, >> uh, yes, I would have been on a cruise >> uh, yes, I would have been on a cruise >> uh, yes, I would have been on a cruise and I was going to sing the love boat.

and I was going to sing the love boat. and I was going to sing the love boat. >> Oh, yes. Yes. We're going to see you on >> Oh, yes. Yes. We're going to see you on >> Oh, yes. Yes. We're going to see you on the Leo deck for cocktails at 6 PM the Leo deck for cocktails at 6 PM the Leo deck for cocktails at 6 PM and maybe if you're lucky, Captain and maybe if you're lucky, Captain and maybe if you're lucky, Captain Stewing will join you. Stewing will join you. Stewing will join you. >> Yeah. And Isaac will serve you some >> Yeah. And Isaac will serve you some >> Yeah. And Isaac will serve you some drinks. drinks. drinks. >> Isaac, remember Isaac? >> Isaac, remember Isaac? >> Isaac, remember Isaac? I loved Isaac, man. He's the best. I loved Isaac, man. He's the best. I loved Isaac, man. He's the best. >> Yeah, they had great shows back then, >> Yeah, they had great shows back then, >> Yeah, they had great shows back then, man. I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you, >> that was a good old days, man. Yeah. >> that was a good old days, man. Yeah. >> that was a good old days, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And um the the doctor with the, you >> And um the the doctor with the, you >> And um the the doctor with the, you know, libido on overdrive. That guy. know, libido on overdrive. That guy. know, libido on overdrive. That guy. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Forgot what his name was. He was Doc. >> Forgot what his name was. He was Doc. >> Forgot what his name was. He was Doc. What? They just called him. What? They just called him. What? They just called him. >> Did they just call him Doc? >> Did they just call him Doc? >> Did they just call him Doc? >> Maybe they just called him Doc. That's >> Maybe they just called him Doc. That's >> Maybe they just called him Doc. That's probably the easiest thing to do, you probably the easiest thing to do, you probably the easiest thing to do, you know? Oh my gosh. know? Oh my gosh. know? Oh my gosh. >> People a lot of young people today don't >> People a lot of young people today don't >> People a lot of young people today don't know about all those sitcoms from back know about all those sitcoms from back know about all those sitcoms from back then that we had. And a lot of them were then that we had. And a lot of them were then that we had. And a lot of them were made by like the same people like Aaron made by like the same people like Aaron made by like the same people like Aaron Spelling and a bunch of other people Spelling and a bunch of other people Spelling and a bunch of other people >> and that just like yeah I got like five >> and that just like yeah I got like five >> and that just like yeah I got like five or six shows going at the same time you or six shows going at the same time you or six shows going at the same time you know they're all kind of the same just know they're all kind of the same just know they're all kind of the same just you know I got Ricardo Multivine over you know I got Ricardo Multivine over you know I got Ricardo Multivine over here on Fantasy Island.

here on Fantasy Island. here on Fantasy Island. Well, you know, um I think they were Well, you know, um I think they were Well, you know, um I think they were recirculating actors through all those recirculating actors through all those recirculating actors through all those shows, right? Like Loveboat had like shows, right? Like Loveboat had like shows, right? Like Loveboat had like every celebrity at the time, uh every celebrity at the time, uh every celebrity at the time, uh >> you know, kind of cruising through that >> you know, kind of cruising through that >> you know, kind of cruising through that thing. Uh and so it was kind of fun in thing. Uh and so it was kind of fun in thing. Uh and so it was kind of fun in that way. that way. that way. >> And if you think about when you >> And if you think about when you >> And if you think about when you spitballing like we're sitting there in spitballing like we're sitting there in spitballing like we're sitting there in a boardroom, you know, in Hollywood and a boardroom, you know, in Hollywood and a boardroom, you know, in Hollywood and we're like, "All right, what do you got we're like, "All right, what do you got we're like, "All right, what do you got guys? Give me what you got." Okay, guys? Give me what you got." Okay, guys? Give me what you got." Okay, here's the deal. Because these shows, a here's the deal. Because these shows, a here's the deal. Because these shows, a lot of them are 30 minutes, some are an lot of them are 30 minutes, some are an lot of them are 30 minutes, some are an hour, you know, but you know, even if hour, you know, but you know, even if hour, you know, but you know, even if it's an hour, there's what, only like 38 it's an hour, there's what, only like 38 it's an hour, there's what, only like 38 minutes or whatever of content. And so minutes or whatever of content. And so minutes or whatever of content. And so you can imagine the Love Boat. And he you can imagine the Love Boat. And he you can imagine the Love Boat. And he goes, "Here's the deal. Every episode goes, "Here's the deal. Every episode goes, "Here's the deal. Every episode time's going to be eaten up by people time's going to be eaten up by people time's going to be eaten up by people getting on the boat, boats going out, getting on the boat, boats going out, getting on the boat, boats going out, boats coming back. We're going to have boats coming back. We're going to have boats coming back. We're going to have guest stars on every time. And then the guest stars on every time. And then the guest stars on every time. And then the writers are just going to come up with writers are just going to come up with writers are just going to come up with some new ridiculous thing each time. And some new ridiculous thing each time. And some new ridiculous thing each time. And it's going to be on a boat. Oh, and if it's going to be on a boat. Oh, and if it's going to be on a boat. Oh, and if you have an extra Wait, wait. All right, you have an extra Wait, wait. All right, you have an extra Wait, wait. All right, I have this other idea, Fantasy Island.

I have this other idea, Fantasy Island. I have this other idea, Fantasy Island. People are going to fly to an island People are going to fly to an island People are going to fly to an island every week and some kind of and we'll every week and some kind of and we'll every week and some kind of and we'll have guest stars on there and some kind have guest stars on there and some kind have guest stars on there and some kind of crazy thing will happen on the island of crazy thing will happen on the island of crazy thing will happen on the island and the and you know, tattoo will go the and the and you know, tattoo will go the and the and you know, tattoo will go the plane, the plane, you know, and plane, the plane, you know, and plane, the plane, you know, and something will happen and then they'll something will happen and then they'll something will happen and then they'll leave. And so we don't have to overthink leave. And so we don't have to overthink leave. And so we don't have to overthink too much because too much because too much because >> a lot of the formula is built in just >> a lot of the formula is built in just >> a lot of the formula is built in just new people and some new crazy idea. If new people and some new crazy idea. If new people and some new crazy idea. If we have to keep firing these stupid we have to keep firing these stupid we have to keep firing these stupid writers each week, that's what we'll do, writers each week, that's what we'll do, writers each week, that's what we'll do, you know, and if we don't get good you know, and if we don't get good you know, and if we don't get good content. I don't know. content. I don't know. content. I don't know. >> Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think >> Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think >> Yeah. No, I think you're right. I think you're right. That was like the Tik Tok you're right. That was like the Tik Tok you're right. That was like the Tik Tok of the 70s. That's how they did it back of the 70s. That's how they did it back of the 70s. That's how they did it back then, right? then, right? then, right? >> Yes, it is. >> Yes, it is. >> Yes, it is. >> People had People had quite an attention >> People had People had quite an attention >> People had People had quite an attention span and all those shows made a huge span and all those shows made a huge span and all those shows made a huge impression. Yeah, impression. Yeah, impression. Yeah, >> they did. They did. >> they did. They did. >> they did. They did. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Those those actors actresses back then >> Those those actors actresses back then >> Those those actors actresses back then got so big. Remember they had the Battle got so big. Remember they had the Battle got so big. Remember they had the Battle of the Network stars? Oh yeah, love of the Network stars? Oh yeah, love of the Network stars? Oh yeah, love that, man. that, man. that, man. >> Yeah, it's like the Olympics for TV star >> Yeah, it's like the Olympics for TV star >> Yeah, it's like the Olympics for TV star people. I don't know. people. I don't know. people. I don't know. >> Wow. Gosh.

>> Wow. Gosh. >> Wow. Gosh. >> See, this is what we h happens when we >> See, this is what we h happens when we >> See, this is what we h happens when we do an Saturday. do an Saturday. do an Saturday. >> But it is related to IoT somehow. Uh but >> But it is related to IoT somehow. Uh but >> But it is related to IoT somehow. Uh but we're going to keep it vibing. That was we're going to keep it vibing. That was we're going to keep it vibing. That was some nice I love the acoustic guitar. I some nice I love the acoustic guitar. I some nice I love the acoustic guitar. I love I'm a big fan of that Spanish love I'm a big fan of that Spanish love I'm a big fan of that Spanish guitar style. guitar style. guitar style. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Such a good sound. >> Such a good sound. >> Such a good sound. >> Flamco. >> Flamco. >> Flamco. >> Absolutely. You know, I'm waiting to >> Absolutely. You know, I'm waiting to >> Absolutely. You know, I'm waiting to hear little Herp Albert and the Tijana hear little Herp Albert and the Tijana hear little Herp Albert and the Tijana brass show up, you know. brass show up, you know. brass show up, you know. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Well, we had we had mariachi's chasing >> Well, we had we had mariachi's chasing >> Well, we had we had mariachi's chasing us all over the place. We did a whole us all over the place. We did a whole us all over the place. We did a whole Mexican Riviera cruise, right, for a Mexican Riviera cruise, right, for a Mexican Riviera cruise, right, for a week. week. week. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> Nice. >> It was nice. And um uh not, you know, >> It was nice. And um uh not, you know, >> It was nice. And um uh not, you know, unfortunately I didn't get it completely unfortunately I didn't get it completely unfortunately I didn't get it completely unplugged. It was difficult to unplugged. It was difficult to unplugged. It was difficult to >> but >> but >> but >> um >> um >> um >> Did you get to hang out with Sammy >> Did you get to hang out with Sammy >> Did you get to hang out with Sammy Hagar? Hagar? Hagar? >> No, I didn't. We we spent maybe about >> No, I didn't. We we spent maybe about >> No, I didn't. We we spent maybe about three hours on shore um and just hung three hours on shore um and just hung three hours on shore um and just hung out in the the um you know the port out in the the um you know the port out in the the um you know the port there there there >> and really didn't go anywhere. I you >> and really didn't go anywhere. I you >> and really didn't go anywhere. I you know they they arrived at like 6 6:00 know they they arrived at like 6 6:00 know they they arrived at like 6 6:00 a.m. in the morning and um we had to get a.m. in the morning and um we had to get a.m. in the morning and um we had to get back on the ship by 2.

back on the ship by 2. back on the ship by 2. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Didn't give us a lot of time to do much. >> Didn't give us a lot of time to do much. >> Didn't give us a lot of time to do much. So So So >> 6 a.m. at Cabo Wabo. >> 6 a.m. at Cabo Wabo. >> 6 a.m. at Cabo Wabo. >> Yeah, but it it's changed a lot. Um >> Yeah, but it it's changed a lot. Um >> Yeah, but it it's changed a lot. Um >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> it's become super resorty. >> it's become super resorty. >> it's become super resorty. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. All right. >> You know, >> You know, >> You know, >> um but um yeah, a lot of mariachi bands >> um but um yeah, a lot of mariachi bands >> um but um yeah, a lot of mariachi bands uh chasing you around as you're trying uh chasing you around as you're trying uh chasing you around as you're trying to enjoy your margarita. to enjoy your margarita. to enjoy your margarita. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Pretty much all all we did when we went >> Pretty much all all we did when we went >> Pretty much all all we did when we went is put down some good margarita is put down some good margarita is put down some good margarita somewhere. somewhere. somewhere. >> Yes. What it's all about, man. Yeah, >> Yes. What it's all about, man. Yeah, >> Yes. What it's all about, man. Yeah, totally. But, uh, yeah, the insanity totally. But, uh, yeah, the insanity totally. But, uh, yeah, the insanity wasn't stopping, right? I mean, I tried wasn't stopping, right? I mean, I tried wasn't stopping, right? I mean, I tried to unplug and, uh, couldn't really get to unplug and, uh, couldn't really get to unplug and, uh, couldn't really get away from all the crap that was away from all the crap that was away from all the crap that was happening during the week, happening during the week, happening during the week, >> which there's just so many, >> which there's just so many, >> which there's just so many, >> you know, news. >> you know, news. >> you know, news. >> Yeah. News and headlines coming out that >> Yeah. News and headlines coming out that >> Yeah. News and headlines coming out that it was is just right. it was is just right. it was is just right. >> You remember? >> You remember? >> You remember? >> I don't remember. >> I don't remember. >> I don't remember. >> Yeah. So, what was big this week for >> Yeah. So, what was big this week for >> Yeah. So, what was big this week for you?

you? you? >> I I already forgot. I don't know. I've >> I I already forgot. I don't know. I've >> I I already forgot. I don't know. I've been trying to move into a house, you been trying to move into a house, you been trying to move into a house, you know. know. know. >> And you know what's really pathetic is >> And you know what's really pathetic is >> And you know what's really pathetic is we're analysts. We're supposed to know we're analysts. We're supposed to know we're analysts. We're supposed to know everything, you know. everything, you know. everything, you know. >> You know, I did >> You know, I did >> You know, I did >> really pathetic. >> really pathetic. >> really pathetic. >> I think I posted some stuff. Maybe that >> I think I posted some stuff. Maybe that >> I think I posted some stuff. Maybe that could help jog my memory. What did I could help jog my memory. What did I could help jog my memory. What did I post over this week that was super post over this week that was super post over this week that was super relevant? Let's go on to the LinkedIn relevant? Let's go on to the LinkedIn relevant? Let's go on to the LinkedIn machine. Um, machine. Um, machine. Um, yes. Well, you know how like you hold yes. Well, you know how like you hold yes. Well, you know how like you hold hear old people and they're like, "Oh, hear old people and they're like, "Oh, hear old people and they're like, "Oh, let's go on the the internet mission." let's go on the the internet mission." let's go on the the internet mission." >> Well, you know what? It is funny. I >> Well, you know what? It is funny. I >> Well, you know what? It is funny. I think we we both uh intersected on a think we we both uh intersected on a think we we both uh intersected on a post about how devices are um post about how devices are um post about how devices are um diminishing our cognitive abilities like diminishing our cognitive abilities like diminishing our cognitive abilities like smart diminishing your your memory. You smart diminishing your your memory. You smart diminishing your your memory. You know what? know what? know what? >> I think it's >> I think it's >> I think it's >> I think it's very true. I mean, we >> I think it's very true. I mean, we >> I think it's very true. I mean, we brought this up so many times on the brought this up so many times on the brought this up so many times on the show. It's like kind of show. It's like kind of show. It's like kind of >> ridiculous, >> ridiculous, >> ridiculous, >> but um the cognitive offload. Yeah. I >> but um the cognitive offload. Yeah. I >> but um the cognitive offload. Yeah. I mean, it it really is a thing. And it mean, it it really is a thing. And it mean, it it really is a thing. And it was funny to see somebody chime in and was funny to see somebody chime in and was funny to see somebody chime in and say, "Well, you know, it's really about say, "Well, you know, it's really about say, "Well, you know, it's really about ethical XYZ."

ethical XYZ." ethical XYZ." >> I was thinking, look, make excuses. >> I was thinking, look, make excuses. >> I was thinking, look, make excuses. >> You know, these technologies are having >> You know, these technologies are having >> You know, these technologies are having an impact on us. And I will be the first an impact on us. And I will be the first an impact on us. And I will be the first to admit it. I don't remember stuff like to admit it. I don't remember stuff like to admit it. I don't remember stuff like I used to. And you know remember, I used to. And you know remember, I used to. And you know remember, >> you know what was it was crazy? >> you know what was it was crazy? >> you know what was it was crazy? >> I look back at some of the deliverables >> I look back at some of the deliverables >> I look back at some of the deliverables that I used to produce in my early that I used to produce in my early that I used to produce in my early belting days. belting days. belting days. >> Dude, the stuff was insane. And also >> Dude, the stuff was insane. And also >> Dude, the stuff was insane. And also voluminous. It was like tons of stuff. voluminous. It was like tons of stuff. voluminous. It was like tons of stuff. But I used to be able to pump that stuff But I used to be able to pump that stuff But I used to be able to pump that stuff out so fast, you know? out so fast, you know? out so fast, you know? um whether it's a technical spec doc or um whether it's a technical spec doc or um whether it's a technical spec doc or architecture architecture architecture document or whatever any of the hundreds document or whatever any of the hundreds document or whatever any of the hundreds of different types of deliverables I of different types of deliverables I of different types of deliverables I produced I used to I mean today produced I used to I mean today produced I used to I mean today I don't think I could do it quite I don't think I could do it quite I don't think I could do it quite honestly honestly honestly >> tough man things were a lot happening >> tough man things were a lot happening >> tough man things were a lot happening back then in the brain back then in the brain back then in the brain >> what the hell happened >> what the hell happened >> what the hell happened >> maybe several things happened you know I >> maybe several things happened you know I >> maybe several things happened you know I often joke but I'm half serious ious often joke but I'm half serious ious often joke but I'm half serious ious that you know half my brain went to the that you know half my brain went to the that you know half my brain went to the smartphone smartphone smartphone >> like try Do you remember anybody's phone >> like try Do you remember anybody's phone >> like try Do you remember anybody's phone number or address anymore?

number or address anymore? number or address anymore? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. Cuz it's on your phone, >> No. Cuz it's on your phone, >> No. Cuz it's on your phone, >> dude. I'm telling you that you always >> dude. I'm telling you that you always >> dude. I'm telling you that you always memorize you. It's like if you don't use memorize you. It's like if you don't use memorize you. It's like if you don't use it, you lose it, man. it, you lose it, man. it, you lose it, man. >> Yeah. You do. You really do. And I think >> Yeah. You do. You really do. And I think >> Yeah. You do. You really do. And I think you like for instance math. I'm really you like for instance math. I'm really you like for instance math. I'm really I'm really bad at it now. Um I'm really bad at it now. Um I'm really bad at it now. Um I I just have a gut feeling I I just have a gut feeling I I just have a gut feeling >> sure >> sure >> sure >> that 2 plus 2 equals five. >> that 2 plus 2 equals five. >> that 2 plus 2 equals five. >> Well that's cuz the marketers keep >> Well that's cuz the marketers keep >> Well that's cuz the marketers keep saying stuff like that. They keep saying saying stuff like that. They keep saying saying stuff like that. They keep saying 1 plus 1 equals 3. And it's like, okay, And it's like, okay, >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> Here, let me put your your mind on >> Here, let me put your your mind on >> Here, let me put your your mind on nonsense. And then you believe nonsense. And then you believe nonsense. And then you believe >> here's some new a news blurb I saw, you >> here's some new a news blurb I saw, you >> here's some new a news blurb I saw, you know, during the week. All right. You know, during the week. All right. You know, during the week. All right. You remember uh Mera Morati? She was the CTO remember uh Mera Morati? She was the CTO remember uh Mera Morati? She was the CTO at OpenAI. And so, you know, she like a at OpenAI. And so, you know, she like a at OpenAI. And so, you know, she like a lot of people that kind of bailed on lot of people that kind of bailed on lot of people that kind of bailed on OpenAI, you know, um OpenAI, you know, um OpenAI, you know, um >> and you know, her whole deal was and >> and you know, her whole deal was and >> and you know, her whole deal was and we've talked about this, you know, it's we've talked about this, you know, it's we've talked about this, you know, it's the hallucination thing, but what really the hallucination thing, but what really the hallucination thing, but what really got her was I can't get the same answer got her was I can't get the same answer got her was I can't get the same answer from the LLM for the same question. If from the LLM for the same question. If from the LLM for the same question. If 50 different people in different 50 different people in different 50 different people in different locations all ask Open AI's LLM a locations all ask Open AI's LLM a locations all ask Open AI's LLM a question, they might get 50 different question, they might get 50 different question, they might get 50 different answers. And what they should get is the answers. And what they should get is the answers. And what they should get is the same exact correct answer, but they same exact correct answer, but they same exact correct answer, but they don't.

don't. don't. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so she's her startup is all trying >> And so she's her startup is all trying >> And so she's her startup is all trying to find some deterministic something or to find some deterministic something or to find some deterministic something or consistency consistency consistency because how could you trust it if it's because how could you trust it if it's because how could you trust it if it's it's a different answer every time, you it's a different answer every time, you it's a different answer every time, you know? Now, you know, sometimes they know? Now, you know, sometimes they know? Now, you know, sometimes they might be vaguely right or there's just might be vaguely right or there's just might be vaguely right or there's just variations of the right answer. Um, but variations of the right answer. Um, but variations of the right answer. Um, but yeah, I know. So that really bothered yeah, I know. So that really bothered yeah, I know. So that really bothered her greatly and I totally get it. That's her greatly and I totally get it. That's her greatly and I totally get it. That's like if our calculator said 1 plus 1 like if our calculator said 1 plus 1 like if our calculator said 1 plus 1 equ= 3 and then the next time 1 plus 1 equ= 3 and then the next time 1 plus 1 equ= 3 and then the next time 1 plus 1 equ= 7 and then 1 plus 1 = Oh, we're equ= 7 and then 1 plus 1 = Oh, we're equ= 7 and then 1 plus 1 = Oh, we're good. good. good. >> Yeah. And and see that and that's the >> Yeah. And and see that and that's the >> Yeah. And and see that and that's the thing, right? I mean we we have been thing, right? I mean we we have been thing, right? I mean we we have been talking about this problem this talking about this problem this talking about this problem this you know first principle problem from you know first principle problem from you know first principle problem from the very beginning 3 years ago right the very beginning 3 years ago right the very beginning 3 years ago right even before that when everybody was even before that when everybody was even before that when everybody was hyping AI hyping AI hyping AI we we were reminding the industrial we we were reminding the industrial we we were reminding the industrial um sectors that were looking at IoT and um sectors that were looking at IoT and um sectors that were looking at IoT and metaverse and all this other stuff and metaverse and all this other stuff and metaverse and all this other stuff and AI that look injecting AI that look injecting AI that look injecting um probabilistic technologies or um probabilistic technologies or um probabilistic technologies or functions or capabilities functions or capabilities functions or capabilities into your deterministic flow. It it's into your deterministic flow. It it's into your deterministic flow. It it's introducing risk. It's introducing introducing risk. It's introducing introducing risk. It's introducing um errors, right? Um um errors, right? Um um errors, right? Um >> so >> so >> so >> be be very careful or use it in a >> be be very careful or use it in a >> be be very careful or use it in a fitforpurpose way. But the problem I fitforpurpose way. But the problem I fitforpurpose way. But the problem I think now is everybody wants to shoehorn

think now is everybody wants to shoehorn think now is everybody wants to shoehorn AI into AI into AI into this, this, this, you know, shoe of you know, shoe of you know, shoe of expectations, unreasonable expectations, expectations, unreasonable expectations, expectations, unreasonable expectations, and it doesn't fit. and it doesn't fit. and it doesn't fit. >> Wait a second. Did you just invent >> Wait a second. Did you just invent >> Wait a second. Did you just invent something new? something new? something new? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Did you just create the shoe of >> Did you just create the shoe of >> Did you just create the shoe of unreasonable expectations? unreasonable expectations? unreasonable expectations? >> It's awesome. That's gold. I love it. >> Yeah, that's awesome. We got to You got >> Yeah, that's awesome. We got to You got to go with, to go with, to go with, >> you know, expectations. You tried to fit >> you know, expectations. You tried to fit >> you know, expectations. You tried to fit this You tried to shoehorn some this You tried to shoehorn some this You tried to shoehorn some technology into something or it works. technology into something or it works. technology into something or it works. So, like, I don't know. I We built this So, like, I don't know. I We built this So, like, I don't know. I We built this system for air traffic control and it system for air traffic control and it system for air traffic control and it all works pretty, you know, it knows all works pretty, you know, it knows all works pretty, you know, it knows where you are and everything. And we where you are and everything. And we where you are and everything. And we said, "We're going to shoehorn some said, "We're going to shoehorn some said, "We're going to shoehorn some degenerative AI in there." And planes degenerative AI in there." And planes degenerative AI in there." And planes are falling out are falling out are falling out and crashing into each other. and crashing into each other. and crashing into each other. >> Yeah. But we did it, baby. We did it.

>> Yeah. But we did it, baby. We did it. >> Yeah. But we did it, baby. We did it. >> My boss said that I had to shoot some AI >> My boss said that I had to shoot some AI >> My boss said that I had to shoot some AI into the shoe of Eric Patrol and it into the shoe of Eric Patrol and it into the shoe of Eric Patrol and it didn't fit. But we made it fit. didn't fit. But we made it fit. didn't fit. But we made it fit. >> We made it. We just pounded on that >> We made it. We just pounded on that >> We made it. We just pounded on that stuff until it fit, you know. But you stuff until it fit, you know. But you stuff until it fit, you know. But you know that don't you think that's what it know that don't you think that's what it know that don't you think that's what it feels like? And and the reason why and feels like? And and the reason why and feels like? And and the reason why and it's funny because you start but what I it's funny because you start but what I it's funny because you start but what I didn't see over the course of the cruise didn't see over the course of the cruise didn't see over the course of the cruise was were folks talking about how you was were folks talking about how you was were folks talking about how you know they're creating this whole FOMO know they're creating this whole FOMO know they're creating this whole FOMO that you're not adopting AI fast enough. that you're not adopting AI fast enough. that you're not adopting AI fast enough. You know You know You know what the hell is that supposed to mean? what the hell is that supposed to mean? what the hell is that supposed to mean? If it works it works. If it doesn't If it works it works. If it doesn't If it works it works. If it doesn't doesn't who gives a We we've been doesn't who gives a We we've been doesn't who gives a We we've been we have been living without AI perfectly we have been living without AI perfectly we have been living without AI perfectly fine for most of civilization. It's not fine for most of civilization. It's not fine for most of civilization. It's not solving any problems that I'm aware of solving any problems that I'm aware of solving any problems that I'm aware of >> of revolutionary scale. Right. >> of revolutionary scale. Right. >> of revolutionary scale. Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> In fact the the the the frustration of >> In fact the the the the frustration of >> In fact the the the the frustration of the industry is that there is no huge the industry is that there is no huge the industry is that there is no huge benefit on the other side of all this benefit on the other side of all this benefit on the other side of all this investment. But the shoehorn, you know, investment. But the shoehorn, you know, investment. But the shoehorn, you know, the shoe horn the shoe horn the shoe horn of AI into that shoe of unreasonable of AI into that shoe of unreasonable of AI into that shoe of unreasonable expectation.

Um, that because if they need that to Um, that because if they need that to happen in order to somehow ek out a a happen in order to somehow ek out a a happen in order to somehow ek out a a you know an inkling of, you know an inkling of, you know an inkling of, you know, return on all that investment. you know, return on all that investment. you know, return on all that investment. is not happening and that's what's is not happening and that's what's is not happening and that's what's scaring the crap out of everyone, right? scaring the crap out of everyone, right? scaring the crap out of everyone, right? And then obviously, And then obviously, And then obviously, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> it looks like the whole circular thing >> it looks like the whole circular thing >> it looks like the whole circular thing is going crazy. Um, people are getting is going crazy. Um, people are getting is going crazy. Um, people are getting really concerned. They're not buying, really concerned. They're not buying, really concerned. They're not buying, you know, Jensen's story anymore that, you know, Jensen's story anymore that, you know, Jensen's story anymore that, hey, you know, this is all organic. No, hey, you know, this is all organic. No, hey, you know, this is all organic. No, it's not. it's not. it's not. >> Um, and then they >> Um, and then they >> Um, and then they >> I'm paying these people to use my stuff. >> I'm paying these people to use my stuff. >> I'm paying these people to use my stuff. >> Yeah. But the, you know, it boils down >> Yeah. But the, you know, it boils down >> Yeah. But the, you know, it boils down to this, man. If you listen to like CNBC to this, man. If you listen to like CNBC to this, man. If you listen to like CNBC or and some of these guys that get on or and some of these guys that get on or and some of these guys that get on there talking about how um AI, there's there talking about how um AI, there's there talking about how um AI, there's so much demand for AI. What do you mean so much demand for AI. What do you mean so much demand for AI. What do you mean by AI? You mean AI infrastructure? Yeah, by AI? You mean AI infrastructure? Yeah, by AI? You mean AI infrastructure? Yeah, sure. But that's sure. But that's sure. But that's >> being um that demand is in all >> being um that demand is in all >> being um that demand is in all investment. It's not end market AI investment. It's not end market AI investment. It's not end market AI um generated monetized.

um generated monetized. um generated monetized. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Revenue. And there's a huge difference. >> Revenue. And there's a huge difference. >> Revenue. And there's a huge difference. So don't call it AI infrastructure. call So don't call it AI infrastructure. call So don't call it AI infrastructure. call it um you know don't call it AI, call it it um you know don't call it AI, call it it um you know don't call it AI, call it AI infrastructure. AI infrastructure. AI infrastructure. >> It's infrastructure. >> It's infrastructure. >> It's infrastructure. >> It's just like people love to >> It's just like people love to >> It's just like people love to compare.com compare.com compare.com and they talk about all the fiber optic and they talk about all the fiber optic and they talk about all the fiber optic cables that were laid during the late cables that were laid during the late cables that were laid during the late '9s and early and and they're like oh '9s and early and and they're like oh '9s and early and and they're like oh and then it all blew up and Cisco was and then it all blew up and Cisco was and then it all blew up and Cisco was the most valuable company in the world the most valuable company in the world the most valuable company in the world and then it just all crashed and and then it just all crashed and and then it just all crashed and >> people don't remember that. Right. But >> people don't remember that. Right. But >> people don't remember that. Right. But now that being said, and but it's not now that being said, and but it's not now that being said, and but it's not necessarily an analogy, necessarily an analogy, necessarily an analogy, >> we ended up using all that fiber >> we ended up using all that fiber >> we ended up using all that fiber eventually. And so we overbuilt. So the eventually. And so we overbuilt. So the eventually. And so we overbuilt. So the question is, will we if we have a crash, question is, will we if we have a crash, question is, will we if we have a crash, will we end up still using the GPUs or will we end up still using the GPUs or will we end up still using the GPUs or the GPUs have as much utility as fiber the GPUs have as much utility as fiber the GPUs have as much utility as fiber optic cable does? Maybe it doesn't. No, optic cable does? Maybe it doesn't. No, optic cable does? Maybe it doesn't. No, I don't I don't think so because I think I don't I don't think so because I think I don't I don't think so because I think um the fiber optics I don't think they um the fiber optics I don't think they um the fiber optics I don't think they were on a um were on a um were on a um they weren't on this whole one-year they weren't on this whole one-year they weren't on this whole one-year cadence that uh Lisa and Jensen keep cadence that uh Lisa and Jensen keep cadence that uh Lisa and Jensen keep claiming is this pace of innovation that claiming is this pace of innovation that claiming is this pace of innovation that AI infrastructure is on right AI infrastructure is on right AI infrastructure is on right >> now. Um, if you believe it, then all >> now. Um, if you believe it, then all >> now. Um, if you believe it, then all this a lot of stuff is going to be this a lot of stuff is going to be this a lot of stuff is going to be outdated.

outdated. outdated. Um, at best if you know um it will it'll Um, at best if you know um it will it'll Um, at best if you know um it will it'll be sold off and somebody else is going be sold off and somebody else is going be sold off and somebody else is going to buy it at a penny on a dollar. to buy it at a penny on a dollar. to buy it at a penny on a dollar. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And then it'll eventually, you know, >> And then it'll eventually, you know, >> And then it'll eventually, you know, there will be bankruptcy. I mean, you there will be bankruptcy. I mean, you there will be bankruptcy. I mean, you know, it's the whole thing that that's know, it's the whole thing that that's know, it's the whole thing that that's the whole the whole the whole >> um bubble that they're people are >> um bubble that they're people are >> um bubble that they're people are talking about. when that bubble talking about. when that bubble talking about. when that bubble collapses all these all these u all this collapses all these all these u all this collapses all these all these u all this infrastructure will have to be somehow infrastructure will have to be somehow infrastructure will have to be somehow you know it will be liquidated you know it will be liquidated you know it will be liquidated >> some fashion and maybe it'll be given to >> some fashion and maybe it'll be given to >> some fashion and maybe it'll be given to crypto guys I who knows crypto guys I who knows crypto guys I who knows >> um but I don't think >> um but I don't think >> um but I don't think >> I I I don't think that um we're going to >> I I I don't think that um we're going to >> I I I don't think that um we're going to see see see we're going to see a lot of this crazy we're going to see a lot of this crazy we're going to see a lot of this crazy investment in these investment in these investment in these >> Uber scale >> Uber scale >> Uber scale um data centers I think there will be um data centers I think there will be um data centers I think there will be diffusion cuz you know we've talked diffusion cuz you know we've talked diffusion cuz you know we've talked about how yeah you know um there is some about how yeah you know um there is some about how yeah you know um there is some utility in this stuff definitely on the utility in this stuff definitely on the utility in this stuff definitely on the coding side of stuff right and I think coding side of stuff right and I think coding side of stuff right and I think in coding in in uh software in coding in in uh software in coding in in uh software uh let's say modernization there's huge uh let's say modernization there's huge uh let's say modernization there's huge potential for it properly right potential for it properly right potential for it properly right >> right >> right >> right >> um all this vibe coding man got to >> um all this vibe coding man got to >> um all this vibe coding man got to be really careful with it but in the be really careful with it but in the be really careful with it but in the hands of somebody who's hands of somebody who's hands of somebody who's um you know an expert developer or at um you know an expert developer or at um you know an expert developer or at least a knowledgeable and experienced least a knowledgeable and experienced least a knowledgeable and experienced developer. It can be a great

developer. It can be a great developer. It can be a great >> uh you know >> uh you know >> uh you know >> force multiplier, right? >> force multiplier, right? >> force multiplier, right? um froze. um froze. um froze. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> fine on my end, but um >> fine on my end, but um >> fine on my end, but um >> Okay, I just froze because I'm tethered. >> Okay, I just froze because I'm tethered. >> Okay, I just froze because I'm tethered. >> I'm tethering my laptop to my phone, >> I'm tethering my laptop to my phone, >> I'm tethering my laptop to my phone, which is trying to eek out some 5G love which is trying to eek out some 5G love which is trying to eek out some 5G love out of here since I don't have my 2 out of here since I don't have my 2 out of here since I don't have my 2 gigabit fiber optic installed yet. gigabit fiber optic installed yet. gigabit fiber optic installed yet. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> But when I do, it's going to rock. >> But when I do, it's going to rock. >> But when I do, it's going to rock. >> Yeah. It's going to be freaking >> Yeah. It's going to be freaking >> Yeah. It's going to be freaking hellacious. Absolutely. Absolutely. You hellacious. Absolutely. Absolutely. You hellacious. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I So, you got like some of the top know, I So, you got like some of the top know, I So, you got like some of the top AI people like uh what's the guy's name AI people like uh what's the guy's name AI people like uh what's the guy's name who just left MetaN? who just left MetaN? who just left MetaN? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Isn't he and other people kind of coming Isn't he and other people kind of coming Isn't he and other people kind of coming out and saying out and saying out and saying >> this is a dead end. >> this is a dead end. >> this is a dead end. >> LLM LLM is a dead end. it's not the path >> LLM LLM is a dead end. it's not the path >> LLM LLM is a dead end. it's not the path to AGI or anything to AGI or anything to AGI or anything >> and that we're going to keep he says >> and that we're going to keep he says >> and that we're going to keep he says it's not it's only going to scale maybe it's not it's only going to scale maybe it's not it's only going to scale maybe a little bit more and then we're out of a little bit more and then we're out of a little bit more and then we're out of gas, you know, and it's it's not the gas, you know, and it's it's not the gas, you know, and it's it's not the path like we got to rethink.

path like we got to rethink. path like we got to rethink. >> Yeah. um is and and so I see him and >> Yeah. um is and and so I see him and >> Yeah. um is and and so I see him and other people who are in that saying other people who are in that saying other people who are in that saying those things, but then back to our those things, but then back to our those things, but then back to our friends at CNBC and Fox Business and friends at CNBC and Fox Business and friends at CNBC and Fox Business and everybody on Wall Street, they're acting everybody on Wall Street, they're acting everybody on Wall Street, they're acting like everything's perfect and we're like everything's perfect and we're like everything's perfect and we're headed to, you know, super intelligence. headed to, you know, super intelligence. headed to, you know, super intelligence. I'm like, well, who are we supposed to I'm like, well, who are we supposed to I'm like, well, who are we supposed to trust? the people who know the stuff or trust? the people who know the stuff or trust? the people who know the stuff or the people who are trying to get rich the people who are trying to get rich the people who are trying to get rich off of the stuff or, you know, or the off of the stuff or, you know, or the off of the stuff or, you know, or the analysts who are, you know, it's such a analysts who are, you know, it's such a analysts who are, you know, it's such a weird thing doing this show and talking weird thing doing this show and talking weird thing doing this show and talking about the truth about AI when all about the truth about AI when all about the truth about AI when all customers are the ones who are the ones customers are the ones who are the ones customers are the ones who are the ones who are all in with AI, right? You know, >> they're they're but they're also a lot >> they're they're but they're also a lot of them are also asking the question, of them are also asking the question, of them are also asking the question, right? And a lot of them are not you right? And a lot of them are not you right? And a lot of them are not you know not a lot of them are not part you know not a lot of them are not part you know not a lot of them are not part you know huge participants or let's call it know huge participants or let's call it know huge participants or let's call it beneficiaries right because it's not a beneficiaries right because it's not a beneficiaries right because it's not a profitable game for OEMs not like HP or profitable game for OEMs not like HP or profitable game for OEMs not like HP or Dell or any of these guys are finding a Dell or any of these guys are finding a Dell or any of these guys are finding a more profitable business in AI more profitable business in AI more profitable business in AI infrastructure. They're not. In fact, infrastructure. They're not. In fact, infrastructure. They're not. In fact, it's pretty it's pretty it's pretty >> now becoming well known and something >> now becoming well known and something >> now becoming well known and something we've brought up on our show here as we've brought up on our show here as we've brought up on our show here as well in the past um that the business of well in the past um that the business of well in the past um that the business of Neocloud is unprofitable.

Neocloud is unprofitable. Neocloud is unprofitable. It has to prove itself to be viable at It has to prove itself to be viable at It has to prove itself to be viable at some point. It's not. And being an OEM some point. It's not. And being an OEM some point. It's not. And being an OEM is is is >> not fun either. Uh in fact, x86 or >> not fun either. Uh in fact, x86 or >> not fun either. Uh in fact, x86 or traditional data center is way more traditional data center is way more traditional data center is way more profitable. is a better business. profitable. is a better business. profitable. is a better business. >> And um you know, as these guys grow >> And um you know, as these guys grow >> And um you know, as these guys grow their AI infrastructure business, their AI infrastructure business, their AI infrastructure business, they're growing an unprofitable they're growing an unprofitable they're growing an unprofitable >> a less profitable business. So, it's >> a less profitable business. So, it's >> a less profitable business. So, it's diluting their earnings. So, you know, diluting their earnings. So, you know, diluting their earnings. So, you know, we we brought it up before, right? we we brought it up before, right? we we brought it up before, right? There's, There's, There's, >> you know, they're scaling scaling a bad >> you know, they're scaling scaling a bad >> you know, they're scaling scaling a bad business. It's like, how smart is that? business. It's like, how smart is that? business. It's like, how smart is that? And how And how And how >> I know was it was I don't I don't want >> I know was it was I don't I don't want >> I know was it was I don't I don't want to guess. Was it JP Morgan? some I know to guess. Was it JP Morgan? some I know to guess. Was it JP Morgan? some I know some you know investment bank or some you know investment bank or some you know investment bank or whatever folks just came out in the last whatever folks just came out in the last whatever folks just came out in the last by few days saying hey we did the math by few days saying hey we did the math by few days saying hey we did the math >> about the investment and the possible >> about the investment and the possible >> about the investment and the possible return and you're short 205 billion return and you're short 205 billion return and you're short 205 billion um or something like that and it acted um or something like that and it acted um or something like that and it acted like I raised my hand anyway like I raised my hand anyway like I raised my hand anyway and now I'm going to lower my hand by and now I'm going to lower my hand by and now I'm going to lower my hand by clicking this thing okay my hand's clicking this thing okay my hand's clicking this thing okay my hand's lowered yeah but they were just saying lowered yeah but they were just saying lowered yeah but they were just saying oh no you're you're going to miss the oh no you're you're going to miss the oh no you're you're going to miss the mark. You you don't have enough mark. You you don't have enough mark. You you don't have enough investment and you're not getting enough investment and you're not getting enough investment and you're not getting enough return and you're off by $25 billion.

return and you're off by $25 billion. return and you're off by $25 billion. 205 billion and and and other people 205 billion and and and other people 205 billion and and and other people like, "Well, no, you don't understand. like, "Well, no, you don't understand. like, "Well, no, you don't understand. It's there's going to be some new tech It's there's going to be some new tech It's there's going to be some new tech that's going to make it cheaper to do that's going to make it cheaper to do that's going to make it cheaper to do this and more efficient and, you know, this and more efficient and, you know, this and more efficient and, you know, and and so you're wrong." and and so you're wrong." and and so you're wrong." >> No. Yeah. Yeah. Um that was that was >> No. Yeah. Yeah. Um that was that was >> No. Yeah. Yeah. Um that was that was Michael Bur. He's the guy the big short Michael Bur. He's the guy the big short Michael Bur. He's the guy the big short guy, right? guy, right? guy, right? >> Oh, yeah. Big Shark Guy. Then um Nvidia >> Oh, yeah. Big Shark Guy. Then um Nvidia >> Oh, yeah. Big Shark Guy. Then um Nvidia came out with the whole um defense which came out with the whole um defense which came out with the whole um defense which was apparently really unusual. Uh they was apparently really unusual. Uh they was apparently really unusual. Uh they got very defensive about the accusation got very defensive about the accusation got very defensive about the accusation of fraud which he went back and said, of fraud which he went back and said, of fraud which he went back and said, "Hey, look, I accuse you of fraud. I "Hey, look, I accuse you of fraud. I "Hey, look, I accuse you of fraud. I accuse you of you know, I'm saying that accuse you of you know, I'm saying that accuse you of you know, I'm saying that here's all this other funny stuff. Um, here's all this other funny stuff. Um, here's all this other funny stuff. Um, >> and if you think that, you know, I mean, >> and if you think that, you know, I mean, >> and if you think that, you know, I mean, you think that you're doing some you think that you're doing some you think that you're doing some something illegal that you're being something illegal that you're being something illegal that you're being that's being suggested by somebody else, that's being suggested by somebody else, that's being suggested by somebody else, right? right? right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But >> But >> But >> he's just saying that it's just it's not >> he's just saying that it's just it's not >> he's just saying that it's just it's not a healthy dynamic and it's not one that a healthy dynamic and it's not one that a healthy dynamic and it's not one that >> should be rewarded, which is why he's >> should be rewarded, which is why he's >> should be rewarded, which is why he's shorting all these, right? And we're shorting all these, right? And we're shorting all these, right? And we're certainly seeing pump and dump happening certainly seeing pump and dump happening certainly seeing pump and dump happening a lot with these AI announcements where a lot with these AI announcements where a lot with these AI announcements where it's not even a real thing.

it's not even a real thing. it's not even a real thing. >> Like I just said, I'm going to invest 40 >> Like I just said, I'm going to invest 40 >> Like I just said, I'm going to invest 40 billion in you at some point in the billion in you at some point in the billion in you at some point in the future and all of a sudden their stock future and all of a sudden their stock future and all of a sudden their stock market rock, you know, price goes market rock, you know, price goes market rock, you know, price goes through the ceiling. through the ceiling. through the ceiling. >> Um and like we saw with Oracle and of >> Um and like we saw with Oracle and of >> Um and like we saw with Oracle and of course what's happened Oracle's price course what's happened Oracle's price course what's happened Oracle's price has now come down 40%. It's cratered. has now come down 40%. It's cratered. has now come down 40%. It's cratered. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In just the last few weeks. It's below >> In just the last few weeks. It's below >> In just the last few weeks. It's below where um where um where um >> it's below where they made the >> it's below where they made the >> it's below where they made the announcement of the 300 billion announcement of the 300 billion announcement of the 300 billion >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> dollar investment uh by Open AI. >> dollar investment uh by Open AI. >> dollar investment uh by Open AI. >> Open AI. Open AAI who has no money but >> Open AI. Open AAI who has no money but >> Open AI. Open AAI who has no money but losses losses losses >> right >> right >> right >> and but you know they have um they are >> and but you know they have um they are >> and but you know they have um they are able to draw a lot of investment right able to draw a lot of investment right able to draw a lot of investment right um but then the question is is you have um but then the question is is you have um but then the question is is you have you have let's sayus or these these you have let's sayus or these these you have let's sayus or these these statements of quote unquote a deal how statements of quote unquote a deal how statements of quote unquote a deal how much of it is real right but the crazy much of it is real right but the crazy much of it is real right but the crazy thing thing thing >> you know I I wrote a um a piece about >> you know I I wrote a um a piece about >> you know I I wrote a um a piece about RPO actually just before um the Nvidia RPO actually just before um the Nvidia RPO actually just before um the Nvidia your earnings call.

your earnings call. your earnings call. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And um actually it was something I had >> And um actually it was something I had >> And um actually it was something I had in the hopper. I didn't finish it. It's in the hopper. I didn't finish it. It's in the hopper. I didn't finish it. It's something that I wrote like two months something that I wrote like two months something that I wrote like two months ago, but I finally finished the freaking ago, but I finally finished the freaking ago, but I finally finished the freaking thing. Uh basically this whole idea of thing. Uh basically this whole idea of thing. Uh basically this whole idea of RPO or remaining uh performance RPO or remaining uh performance RPO or remaining uh performance obligations, which is basically a obligations, which is basically a obligations, which is basically a pipeline of revenue against existing pipeline of revenue against existing pipeline of revenue against existing contracts, right? contracts, right? contracts, right? >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Um you know, you have companies like >> Um you know, you have companies like >> Um you know, you have companies like Oracle booking the whole freaking thing. Oracle booking the whole freaking thing. Oracle booking the whole freaking thing. I mean, something like you know, 300 I mean, something like you know, 300 I mean, something like you know, 300 billion. I mean, they're putting it into billion. I mean, they're putting it into billion. I mean, they're putting it into their RPO and then then, you know, their RPO and then then, you know, their RPO and then then, you know, then they're coming back and saying, then they're coming back and saying, then they're coming back and saying, "Hey, well," or people are saying, "Hey, well," or people are saying, "Hey, well," or people are saying, "Look, you you don't have that, "Look, you you don't have that, "Look, you you don't have that, >> you know." >> you know." >> you know." >> That's right. It's an unrealized dream. >> That's right. It's an unrealized dream. >> That's right. It's an unrealized dream. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which may never happen. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which may never happen. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which may never happen. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and so I think you know I >> Yeah. And and so I think you know I >> Yeah. And and so I think you know I think people are now going to ask better think people are now going to ask better think people are now going to ask better questions which they should. questions which they should. questions which they should. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You should not be so naive to just >> You should not be so naive to just >> You should not be so naive to just believe all of these freaking press believe all of these freaking press believe all of these freaking press releases because you know what your releases because you know what your releases because you know what your reactions are encouraging reactions are encouraging reactions are encouraging >> these bigger numbers that they float out >> these bigger numbers that they float out >> these bigger numbers that they float out that I mean that I mean that I mean >> everybody gets excited don't make any >> everybody gets excited don't make any >> everybody gets excited don't make any sense. Do you know what?

sense. Do you know what? sense. Do you know what? >> I loaded up on some more so and so stock >> I loaded up on some more so and so stock >> I loaded up on some more so and so stock and yeah, just keep going, baby. I don't and yeah, just keep going, baby. I don't and yeah, just keep going, baby. I don't really care if it's all really care if it's all really care if it's all >> Yeah, exactly. Hey, why don't we why >> Yeah, exactly. Hey, why don't we why >> Yeah, exactly. Hey, why don't we why don't we gamble like 1.4 trillion on don't we gamble like 1.4 trillion on don't we gamble like 1.4 trillion on like something that after 3 years is not like something that after 3 years is not like something that after 3 years is not quite panning out the way that we hoped. quite panning out the way that we hoped. quite panning out the way that we hoped. You know, you started hearing some You know, you started hearing some You know, you started hearing some analysts a few weeks ago starting to analysts a few weeks ago starting to analysts a few weeks ago starting to kind of caution about the Oracle thing kind of caution about the Oracle thing kind of caution about the Oracle thing and when they heard that Oracle was and when they heard that Oracle was and when they heard that Oracle was raising lots of debt financing in order raising lots of debt financing in order raising lots of debt financing in order to build Stargate and some of the other to build Stargate and some of the other to build Stargate and some of the other stuff uh as opposed to Microsoft or stuff uh as opposed to Microsoft or stuff uh as opposed to Microsoft or other or Meta or other companies that other or Meta or other companies that other or Meta or other companies that actually have that kind of cash in the actually have that kind of cash in the actually have that kind of cash in the bank. And it turns out Oracle doesn't bank. And it turns out Oracle doesn't bank. And it turns out Oracle doesn't have that cash in the bank. And so have that cash in the bank. And so have that cash in the bank. And so they're taking on like 300 billion in they're taking on like 300 billion in they're taking on like 300 billion in debt. And then I read today or debt. And then I read today or debt. And then I read today or yesterday, one of the big uh investment yesterday, one of the big uh investment yesterday, one of the big uh investment houses in New York kind of put out a houses in New York kind of put out a houses in New York kind of put out a caution flag uh and a risk thing on caution flag uh and a risk thing on caution flag uh and a risk thing on Oracle. Um because it's like and and Oracle. Um because it's like and and Oracle. Um because it's like and and this is what people were saying just a this is what people were saying just a this is what people were saying just a few weeks ago and I was like, "No, it'll few weeks ago and I was like, "No, it'll few weeks ago and I was like, "No, it'll be fine." You know, Oracle's been be fine." You know, Oracle's been be fine." You know, Oracle's been building out OCI and most of their building out OCI and most of their building out OCI and most of their business is because of the database and business is because of the database and business is because of the database and fusion and all that stuff. But there's fusion and all that stuff. But there's fusion and all that stuff. But there's some people are worried. It's like, wow.

some people are worried. It's like, wow. some people are worried. It's like, wow. But if you do take on 300 billion in But if you do take on 300 billion in But if you do take on 300 billion in debt and all this stuff collapses, debt and all this stuff collapses, debt and all this stuff collapses, someone's going to pick up the phone and someone's going to pick up the phone and someone's going to pick up the phone and call in the loan potentially call in the loan potentially call in the loan potentially >> and then a big short again. >> and then a big short again. >> and then a big short again. >> Well, you know, people are Yeah. When >> Well, you know, people are Yeah. When >> Well, you know, people are Yeah. When you when you finance this stuff on when you when you finance this stuff on when you when you finance this stuff on when you're investing on margin, it's being you're investing on margin, it's being you're investing on margin, it's being financed on margin. This is how like financed on margin. This is how like financed on margin. This is how like financial collapse happened. financial collapse happened. financial collapse happened. And yeah, and it should worry everyone And yeah, and it should worry everyone And yeah, and it should worry everyone because it's one thing for because it's one thing for because it's one thing for >> for the stock to drop or the stocks or >> for the stock to drop or the stocks or >> for the stock to drop or the stocks or the market to drop. It's another for the the market to drop. It's another for the the market to drop. It's another for the financial institutions to collapse. financial institutions to collapse. financial institutions to collapse. That's a totally different thing. That's a totally different thing. That's a totally different thing. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. >> And that's the real stuff that Dan I >> And that's the real stuff that Dan I >> And that's the real stuff that Dan I mean that's like you want to talk about mean that's like you want to talk about mean that's like you want to talk about blast radius that's the stuff that blast radius that's the stuff that blast radius that's the stuff that basically takes down uh you know more basically takes down uh you know more basically takes down uh you know more than the folks that are in ground zero than the folks that are in ground zero than the folks that are in ground zero you know. you know. you know. >> That's right. That's right. And we we >> That's right. That's right. And we we >> That's right. That's right. And we we overused this, you know, like, you know, overused this, you know, like, you know, overused this, you know, like, you know, Warren Buffett never understood what was Warren Buffett never understood what was Warren Buffett never understood what was going on with the dot thing and so he going on with the dot thing and so he going on with the dot thing and so he didn't invest in it. And then you had didn't invest in it. And then you had didn't invest in it. And then you had the chairman of the Fed saying, what is the chairman of the Fed saying, what is the chairman of the Fed saying, what is this, exuberant or whatever, this, exuberant or whatever, this, exuberant or whatever, overexuberant or I forgot. He had this overexuberant or I forgot. He had this overexuberant or I forgot. He had this quote that he kept saying during the com quote that he kept saying during the com quote that he kept saying during the com thing cuz it was just irrational thing cuz it was just irrational thing cuz it was just irrational exuberance or exuberance or exuberance or >> Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And >> Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And >> Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. And it's just like be careful guys. You it's just like be careful guys. You it's just like be careful guys. You know, this whole thing could be nothing.

know, this whole thing could be nothing. know, this whole thing could be nothing. Um, Greenspan. Yeah, Greenspan was Um, Greenspan. Yeah, Greenspan was Um, Greenspan. Yeah, Greenspan was right. right. right. >> Greenspan. Yeah, Greenspan was just >> Greenspan. Yeah, Greenspan was just >> Greenspan. Yeah, Greenspan was just like, "This is crazy, you know, and like, "This is crazy, you know, and like, "This is crazy, you know, and everybody's like, "No, it's the new everybody's like, "No, it's the new everybody's like, "No, it's the new internet economy. Everything we're internet economy. Everything we're internet economy. Everything we're rewriting the book rewriting the book rewriting the book >> right now." >> right now." >> right now." >> Yeah. And and this is where I think it's >> Yeah. And and this is where I think it's >> Yeah. And and this is where I think it's not that we're being lit and trying to not that we're being lit and trying to not that we're being lit and trying to throw, you know, monkey wrenches into throw, you know, monkey wrenches into throw, you know, monkey wrenches into the works. the works. the works. We've seen this stuff before. I mean We've seen this stuff before. I mean We've seen this stuff before. I mean this is you know this new generation this is you know this new generation this is you know this new generation especially new generation who have never especially new generation who have never especially new generation who have never seen a bare market or a a recession or a seen a bare market or a a recession or a seen a bare market or a a recession or a depression. depression. depression. >> You you you do not know you you read any >> You you you do not know you you read any >> You you you do not know you you read any of this crap in in novels and books of this crap in in novels and books of this crap in in novels and books don't compare to actually having been don't compare to actually having been don't compare to actually having been there there there >> you know. >> you know. >> you know. >> Sure. I was there for, you know, I was >> Sure. I was there for, you know, I was >> Sure. I was there for, you know, I was like right in the middle for five years like right in the middle for five years like right in the middle for five years all the way up to the collapse. all the way up to the collapse. all the way up to the collapse. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, I saw all of it. I saw all the >> You know, I saw all of it. I saw all the >> You know, I saw all of it. I saw all the good stuff. All the, you know, freaking good stuff. All the, you know, freaking good stuff. All the, you know, freaking million-dollar freaking holiday parties, million-dollar freaking holiday parties, million-dollar freaking holiday parties, blah, blah, blah. You know, freaking blah, blah, blah. You know, freaking blah, blah, blah. You know, freaking >> it was ridiculous. It It was >> it was ridiculous. It It was >> it was ridiculous. It It was debaucherous. You know what I'm saying?

debaucherous. You know what I'm saying? debaucherous. You know what I'm saying? And you don't get that sense out of And you don't get that sense out of And you don't get that sense out of books. The only only documentary books. The only only documentary books. The only only documentary that gets it right is a freaking comedy that gets it right is a freaking comedy that gets it right is a freaking comedy called Silicon Valley. called Silicon Valley. called Silicon Valley. So, thank you for that. So, thank you for that. So, thank you for that. >> This is Yeah. And it it's it's it's a >> This is Yeah. And it it's it's it's a >> This is Yeah. And it it's it's it's a funny show, but it's more funny for the funny show, but it's more funny for the funny show, but it's more funny for the people who lived before. people who lived before. people who lived before. >> Yes. Because it's all it's all based on >> Yes. Because it's all it's all based on >> Yes. Because it's all it's all based on some of the bizarre truths that actually some of the bizarre truths that actually some of the bizarre truths that actually went down there like stuff like, "Oh, went down there like stuff like, "Oh, went down there like stuff like, "Oh, wo, wait. Make sure you don't turn a wo, wait. Make sure you don't turn a wo, wait. Make sure you don't turn a profit because as soon as you have money profit because as soon as you have money profit because as soon as you have money profit, then they'll value your company profit, then they'll value your company profit, then they'll value your company align with other people." And so, you align with other people." And so, you align with other people." And so, you don't want that. So, make sure that don't want that. So, make sure that don't want that. So, make sure that you're unprofitable. I mean, but that you're unprofitable. I mean, but that you're unprofitable. I mean, but that was a thing during the dot era, was a thing during the dot era, was a thing during the dot era, >> you know, >> you know, >> you know, >> and you had and you had these folks >> and you had and you had these folks >> and you had and you had these folks going around evangelizing how valuation going around evangelizing how valuation going around evangelizing how valuation is dead. There's this thing called is dead. There's this thing called is dead. There's this thing called internet valuation and we need to internet valuation and we need to internet valuation and we need to rethink you know the economy and it's rethink you know the economy and it's rethink you know the economy and it's network this and you know how HPS and network this and you know how HPS and network this and you know how HPS and you know freaking Stanford blah any of you know freaking Stanford blah any of you know freaking Stanford blah any of the number of ac you know the number of ac you know the number of ac you know >> universities coming out with these >> universities coming out with these >> universities coming out with these weirdass theories debunking conventional weirdass theories debunking conventional weirdass theories debunking conventional methods of valuate you know evaluating methods of valuate you know evaluating methods of valuate you know evaluating companies companies companies >> right >> right >> right >> they were wrong.

>> they were wrong. >> they were wrong. >> They were so wrong. >> They were so wrong. >> They were so wrong. >> Yeah. I mean, they were wrong. And they >> Yeah. I mean, they were wrong. And they >> Yeah. I mean, they were wrong. And they will be wrong. And these bozos, the will be wrong. And these bozos, the will be wrong. And these bozos, the bozos that are going around doing the bozos that are going around doing the bozos that are going around doing the same I mean, we've seen this same I mean, we've seen this same I mean, we've seen this before. This is the reason why we're before. This is the reason why we're before. This is the reason why we're calling you bozos. calling you bozos. calling you bozos. >> You are a bozo because you had >> You are a bozo because you had >> You are a bozo because you had >> previous bozos that tried to do the same >> previous bozos that tried to do the same >> previous bozos that tried to do the same thing and they were freaking wrong. thing and they were freaking wrong. thing and they were freaking wrong. >> Yeah. No. Who >> Yeah. No. Who >> Yeah. No. Who >> knows if these are the same bozos from >> knows if these are the same bozos from >> knows if these are the same bozos from the previous bozos that are reenacting the previous bozos that are reenacting the previous bozos that are reenacting like you know Bozo 2.0. like you know Bozo 2.0. like you know Bozo 2.0. >> Bozo 2.0. Yeah. I love that. Bozo 2.0 is >> Bozo 2.0. Yeah. I love that. Bozo 2.0 is >> Bozo 2.0. Yeah. I love that. Bozo 2.0 is the guy with the shoe horn thing trying the guy with the shoe horn thing trying the guy with the shoe horn thing trying to get the stuff into the shoe. to get the stuff into the shoe. to get the stuff into the shoe. Unrealistic. Yeah. Expectations or Unrealistic. Yeah. Expectations or Unrealistic. Yeah. Expectations or whatever. Yeah. whatever. Yeah. whatever. Yeah. >> This is great stuff. Um, you know, other >> This is great stuff. Um, you know, other >> This is great stuff. Um, you know, other interesting news, interesting news, interesting news, >> positive whatever. Well, >> positive whatever. Well, >> positive whatever. Well, >> all related to Google. Google's stock >> all related to Google. Google's stock >> all related to Google. Google's stock prices shot up. Yeah. prices shot up. Yeah. prices shot up. Yeah. >> And it's because of a couple of things. >> And it's because of a couple of things. >> And it's because of a couple of things. Gemini 3 came out. Gemini 3 came out. Gemini 3 came out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And a lot of people are arguing that >> And a lot of people are arguing that >> And a lot of people are arguing that Gemini 3 just leapfrogged Gemini 3 just leapfrogged Gemini 3 just leapfrogged GPT 5.1 and leapfrogged Anthropic that GPT 5.1 and leapfrogged Anthropic that GPT 5.1 and leapfrogged Anthropic that it's and uh and I played with it, it's and uh and I played with it, it's and uh and I played with it, especially the nano banana thing. That's especially the nano banana thing. That's especially the nano banana thing. That's fun. Um and yeah, it's pretty fun. Um and yeah, it's pretty fun. Um and yeah, it's pretty impressive. But also the other thing impressive. But also the other thing impressive. But also the other thing that came out that's maybe probably a that came out that's maybe probably a that came out that's maybe probably a bigger dealish on the infrastructure bigger dealish on the infrastructure bigger dealish on the infrastructure side is the realization that the TPUs side is the realization that the TPUs side is the realization that the TPUs that Google makes are just as good or that Google makes are just as good or that Google makes are just as good or better than the Blackwell GPUs better than the Blackwell GPUs better than the Blackwell GPUs that um Jensen's making, but they're at

that um Jensen's making, but they're at that um Jensen's making, but they're at a fraction of the cost. a fraction of the cost. a fraction of the cost. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and then you find out that all this >> And and then you find out that all this >> And and then you find out that all this time Google's been running all their time Google's been running all their time Google's been running all their stuff on the TPUs that they manufacture. stuff on the TPUs that they manufacture. stuff on the TPUs that they manufacture. And so there was news that uh Daario And so there was news that uh Daario And so there was news that uh Daario over Anthropics like over Anthropics like over Anthropics like >> I'm in and so he's going to start using >> I'm in and so he's going to start using >> I'm in and so he's going to start using their TPUs and so that's kind of changes their TPUs and so that's kind of changes their TPUs and so that's kind of changes the dynamic back to you know the dynamic back to you know the dynamic back to you know >> can Nvidia stay on top forever because >> can Nvidia stay on top forever because >> can Nvidia stay on top forever because you nobody does nobody can you know you you nobody does nobody can you know you you nobody does nobody can you know you have a window of time when you're unique have a window of time when you're unique have a window of time when you're unique and you're special but it doesn't last and you're special but it doesn't last and you're special but it doesn't last forever um forever um forever um >> yeah I mean if Debbie was here she would >> yeah I mean if Debbie was here she would >> yeah I mean if Debbie was here she would have said new for you have said new for you have said new for you this is something If we, you know, this is something If we, you know, this is something If we, you know, you're covering the semiconductor you're covering the semiconductor you're covering the semiconductor industry and the the server market and industry and the the server market and industry and the the server market and all this AI infrastructure, you knew all this AI infrastructure, you knew all this AI infrastructure, you knew that I mean or AI, you knew that Google that I mean or AI, you knew that Google that I mean or AI, you knew that Google has been working on TPUs forever. In has been working on TPUs forever. In has been working on TPUs forever. In fact, Rob, you and I when we were at fact, Rob, you and I when we were at fact, Rob, you and I when we were at >> when we were at our favorite show, IoT >> when we were at our favorite show, IoT >> when we were at our favorite show, IoT Solutions World Congress.

Solutions World Congress. Solutions World Congress. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. 16 17 actually is I think when 16 17 actually is I think when 16 17 actually is I think when >> when Google we cruised by the Google >> when Google we cruised by the Google >> when Google we cruised by the Google booth and we were staring at guess what booth and we were staring at guess what booth and we were staring at guess what the TPU >> got old TPUs you know as Isaac would say >> got old TPUs you know as Isaac would say here's your TPU here's your TPU here's your TPU >> I've got a >> I've got a >> I've got a >> Yeah. And uh >> Yeah. And uh >> Yeah. And uh >> yeah, pretty interesting. >> yeah, pretty interesting. >> yeah, pretty interesting. The the news that they've been doing The the news that they've been doing The the news that they've been doing TPUs all along and now everybody else TPUs all along and now everybody else TPUs all along and now everybody else knows about it and Gemini 3 is based on knows about it and Gemini 3 is based on knows about it and Gemini 3 is based on using their TPUs and all of a sudden using their TPUs and all of a sudden using their TPUs and all of a sudden it's like, oh, there's there's something it's like, oh, there's there's something it's like, oh, there's there's something else out there, you know. else out there, you know. else out there, you know. >> Yeah. And and uh Google is really good >> Yeah. And and uh Google is really good >> Yeah. And and uh Google is really good at data center networking. So is Meta. at data center networking. So is Meta. at data center networking. So is Meta. Um Um Um >> and they have technologies that are >> and they have technologies that are >> and they have technologies that are comparable to MVLink. Um they're not comparable to MVLink. Um they're not comparable to MVLink. Um they're not slouches.

slouches. slouches. >> And so you know when you think about So >> And so you know when you think about So >> And so you know when you think about So the funny thing is you have all these the funny thing is you have all these the funny thing is you have all these guys on CME talk about OH MY GOD IT'S A guys on CME talk about OH MY GOD IT'S A guys on CME talk about OH MY GOD IT'S A CHIP war blah blah blah. It's like no CHIP war blah blah blah. It's like no CHIP war blah blah blah. It's like no not really. The chips if you look at the not really. The chips if you look at the not really. The chips if you look at the chips chips chips they're pretty much about the same. The they're pretty much about the same. The they're pretty much about the same. The chip is not the thing that is really chip is not the thing that is really chip is not the thing that is really dictating performance anymore, right? Um dictating performance anymore, right? Um dictating performance anymore, right? Um it's really the networking. How good is it's really the networking. How good is it's really the networking. How good is your networking interconnect and the your networking interconnect and the your networking interconnect and the efficiency of the entire system, right? efficiency of the entire system, right? efficiency of the entire system, right? And so there are other things that are And so there are other things that are And so there are other things that are factoring into factoring into factoring into the performance, scaling, and efficiency the performance, scaling, and efficiency the performance, scaling, and efficiency of these a large AI um training of these a large AI um training of these a large AI um training clusters. And that's what, clusters. And that's what, clusters. And that's what, you know, and and the the fact that you know, and and the the fact that you know, and and the the fact that >> Google owns the whole freaking stack. I >> Google owns the whole freaking stack. I >> Google owns the whole freaking stack. I mean, even more than and a commercial mean, even more than and a commercial mean, even more than and a commercial stack, right? Not like a freaking AI stack, right? Not like a freaking AI stack, right? Not like a freaking AI infrastructure stack where you're infrastructure stack where you're infrastructure stack where you're missing everything above it. missing everything above it. missing everything above it. >> Google Google has a freaking ad business >> Google Google has a freaking ad business >> Google Google has a freaking ad business and they can subsidize all the stuff.

and they can subsidize all the stuff. and they can subsidize all the stuff. They can make everything They can make everything They can make everything >> purpose-built. They have a, you know, >> purpose-built. They have a, you know, >> purpose-built. They have a, you know, CSP business, right? a cloud service CSP business, right? a cloud service CSP business, right? a cloud service pro, you know, GCP, right? And they can pro, you know, GCP, right? And they can pro, you know, GCP, right? And they can offer all kinds of services that are offer all kinds of services that are offer all kinds of services that are canned, pre pre-made, modularized, and canned, pre pre-made, modularized, and canned, pre pre-made, modularized, and then just expressed as services on top then just expressed as services on top then just expressed as services on top of their enterprise AI stuff. of their enterprise AI stuff. of their enterprise AI stuff. Um, Um, Um, >> absolutely >> absolutely >> absolutely >> Nvidia has that with their AI factory >> Nvidia has that with their AI factory >> Nvidia has that with their AI factory and all that crap, but the thing is they and all that crap, but the thing is they and all that crap, but the thing is they don't have the markets. They they're not don't have the markets. They they're not don't have the markets. They they're not a they're not a freaking a cloud service a they're not a freaking a cloud service a they're not a freaking a cloud service provider. They're they don't provider. They're they don't provider. They're they don't >> talk directly to enterprises. >> talk directly to enterprises. >> talk directly to enterprises. >> Google does. >> Google does. >> Google does. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> I think it's um >> I think it's um >> I think it's um >> I think we >> I think we >> I think we >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> we've certainly said with Nvidia, >> we've certainly said with Nvidia, >> we've certainly said with Nvidia, speaking of what you just said there, I speaking of what you just said there, I speaking of what you just said there, I mean their best play might be and maybe mean their best play might be and maybe mean their best play might be and maybe it is they're doing a little bit their it is they're doing a little bit their it is they're doing a little bit their own cloud and own cloud and own cloud and >> yeah and compete against the other >> yeah and compete against the other >> yeah and compete against the other hyperscalers because at some point, hyperscalers because at some point, hyperscalers because at some point, you're right, they're going to go, you you're right, they're going to go, you you're right, they're going to go, you know what, you're just a part maker. and know what, you're just a part maker. and know what, you're just a part maker. and I need the whole stack or maybe you need I need the whole stack or maybe you need I need the whole stack or maybe you need the whole stack or I don't know. Um the whole stack or I don't know. Um the whole stack or I don't know. Um >> but you know but it's a good point that >> but you know but it's a good point that >> but you know but it's a good point that you're making uh there because they do you're making uh there because they do you're making uh there because they do have DJX cloud.

have DJX cloud. have DJX cloud. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> They had uh what's the name of that >> They had uh what's the name of that >> They had uh what's the name of that thing? Friaking um or you know like thing? Friaking um or you know like thing? Friaking um or you know like global global global aggregator of GPU. I I forgot the name aggregator of GPU. I I forgot the name aggregator of GPU. I I forgot the name of the thing but they have something of the thing but they have something of the thing but they have something that they deployed. Um probably should that they deployed. Um probably should that they deployed. Um probably should follow up on that. I don't know how follow up on that. I don't know how follow up on that. I don't know how successful they've been with that successful they've been with that successful they've been with that >> right. um it probably was it's probably >> right. um it probably was it's probably >> right. um it probably was it's probably not been that successful and um you know not been that successful and um you know not been that successful and um you know because there the Neoclouds because there the Neoclouds because there the Neoclouds um there's just so much concentration. um there's just so much concentration. um there's just so much concentration. Do you know what I'm saying? If you're a Do you know what I'm saying? If you're a Do you know what I'm saying? If you're a Neocloud, you don't have like a Neocloud, you don't have like a Neocloud, you don't have like a gajillion customers and um you probably gajillion customers and um you probably gajillion customers and um you probably don't have a lot of capacity that you don't have a lot of capacity that you don't have a lot of capacity that you need to um um you know find market need to um um you know find market need to um um you know find market for. Do you know what I'm saying? for. Do you know what I'm saying? for. Do you know what I'm saying? >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> no, you're right. >> no, you're right. >> no, you're right. >> So, I don't know. >> So, I don't know. >> So, I don't know. >> It's a weird, >> It's a weird, >> It's a weird, >> you know, we talked about everybody >> you know, we talked about everybody >> you know, we talked about everybody talks about how Apple's missed the boat talks about how Apple's missed the boat talks about how Apple's missed the boat on this stuff and yet they're still on this stuff and yet they're still on this stuff and yet they're still making lots of money by making phones making lots of money by making phones making lots of money by making phones and stuff.

and stuff. and stuff. that track we've talked about where it's that track we've talked about where it's that track we've talked about where it's possible that as we end up going into a possible that as we end up going into a possible that as we end up going into a crash and there's all these AI companies crash and there's all these AI companies crash and there's all these AI companies that have gone out of business, Apple that have gone out of business, Apple that have gone out of business, Apple will sit back and go will sit back and go will sit back and go >> and they will be able to pick up all >> and they will be able to pick up all >> and they will be able to pick up all those businesses for years on the those businesses for years on the those businesses for years on the dollar. dollar. dollar. >> Yeah. you know, because Apple, you know, >> Yeah. you know, because Apple, you know, >> Yeah. you know, because Apple, you know, I know they probably felt bad because I know they probably felt bad because I know they probably felt bad because they've been a lagard in AI, but they've they've been a lagard in AI, but they've they've been a lagard in AI, but they've been making stuff that people actually been making stuff that people actually been making stuff that people actually want this whole time. want this whole time. want this whole time. >> Um, and people have been buying that >> Um, and people have been buying that >> Um, and people have been buying that thing. And so, and it makes them a thing. And so, and it makes them a thing. And so, and it makes them a multi-trillion dollar company. And so, multi-trillion dollar company. And so, multi-trillion dollar company. And so, when all these other guys, cuz they're when all these other guys, cuz they're when all these other guys, cuz they're not all going to make it. And that's not all going to make it. And that's not all going to make it. And that's just life, you know, whether AI is a just life, you know, whether AI is a just life, you know, whether AI is a success or a failure or somewhere in success or a failure or somewhere in success or a failure or somewhere in between, not everybody's going to make between, not everybody's going to make between, not everybody's going to make it. Um, but Apple could certainly, you it. Um, but Apple could certainly, you it. Um, but Apple could certainly, you know, and I think it was telling when know, and I think it was telling when know, and I think it was telling when Apple decided we're going to go with Apple decided we're going to go with Apple decided we're going to go with Google for Siri, um, and pay them a Google for Siri, um, and pay them a Google for Siri, um, and pay them a billion bucks a month or whatever it is, billion bucks a month or whatever it is, billion bucks a month or whatever it is, you know. you know. you know. >> I don't think it's just Siri. I mean, I >> I don't think it's just Siri. I mean, I >> I don't think it's just Siri. I mean, I don't think it's just Google. I think don't think it's just Google. I think don't think it's just Google. I think it's going to be other it's going to be other it's going to be other >> you know that's the thing people tend to >> you know that's the thing people tend to >> you know that's the thing people tend to forget about Apple is there they're forget about Apple is there they're forget about Apple is there they're truly a global company that truly a global company that truly a global company that has you know basically plays in all has you know basically plays in all has you know basically plays in all markets and there are some markets that markets and there are some markets that markets and there are some markets that don't like Google is straight out banned don't like Google is straight out banned don't like Google is straight out banned >> some of the biggest markets actually >> some of the biggest markets actually >> some of the biggest markets actually >> oh >> oh >> oh >> like China >> like China >> like China >> yeah like China so >> yeah like China so >> yeah like China so >> no Google in China

>> no Google in China >> no Google in China >> and then um you know I think the there's >> and then um you know I think the there's >> and then um you know I think the there's grow there's growing you know we have grow there's growing you know we have grow there's growing you know we have the geopol politics going on increased the geopol politics going on increased the geopol politics going on increased concerns about AI being owned by just concerns about AI being owned by just concerns about AI being owned by just like a few massive companies. Um, so like a few massive companies. Um, so like a few massive companies. Um, so Europe, you're probably going to see a Europe, you're probably going to see a Europe, you're probably going to see a bit of schizophrenia, a lot of bit of schizophrenia, a lot of bit of schizophrenia, a lot of regulations. Um, regulations. Um, regulations. Um, >> you know, even above and beyond what we >> you know, even above and beyond what we >> you know, even above and beyond what we already see them in the either having already see them in the either having already see them in the either having instituted or in the process of, you instituted or in the process of, you instituted or in the process of, you know, you know, institutionalizing. know, you know, institutionalizing. know, you know, institutionalizing. But um yeah, I I I I think people didn't But um yeah, I I I I think people didn't But um yeah, I I I I think people didn't understand what winning an AI means for understand what winning an AI means for understand what winning an AI means for Apple because they fundamentally don't Apple because they fundamentally don't Apple because they fundamentally don't understand Apple because most people understand Apple because most people understand Apple because most people still think that they're an iPhone still think that they're an iPhone still think that they're an iPhone company, company, company, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> They don't understand that Apple is so >> They don't understand that Apple is so >> They don't understand that Apple is so much more than that much more than that much more than that >> and they're they're not just about >> and they're they're not just about >> and they're they're not just about producing widgets and things like that.

producing widgets and things like that. producing widgets and things like that. They haven't been for a long time, but They haven't been for a long time, but They haven't been for a long time, but >> um You know, if you're a Wall Street >> um You know, if you're a Wall Street >> um You know, if you're a Wall Street guy, that's all you're going to focus on guy, that's all you're going to focus on guy, that's all you're going to focus on because those are the things that because those are the things that because those are the things that actually how many iPhones do you ship? actually how many iPhones do you ship? actually how many iPhones do you ship? >> Yeah. But then they're also >> Yeah. But then they're also >> Yeah. But then they're also >> the big thing, you know, which is Apple >> the big thing, you know, which is Apple >> the big thing, you know, which is Apple silicon. silicon. silicon. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. I mean, think about >> Yeah. I mean, think about >> Yeah. I mean, think about >> You're right. And so, >> You're right. And so, >> You're right. And so, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> Europe's doing the sovereign thing now. >> Europe's doing the sovereign thing now. >> Europe's doing the sovereign thing now. Every other time I read something about Every other time I read something about Every other time I read something about Europe, it's digital sovereignty. It's Europe, it's digital sovereignty. It's Europe, it's digital sovereignty. It's data sovereignty. We need to have our data sovereignty. We need to have our data sovereignty. We need to have our own clouds. We need disconnect from own clouds. We need disconnect from own clouds. We need disconnect from American hyperscalers. I hear that stuff American hyperscalers. I hear that stuff American hyperscalers. I hear that stuff all the time. all the time. all the time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so you got other local players much >> And so you got other local players much >> And so you got other local players much smaller smaller smaller >> trying to o OVH cloud or was it OV >> trying to o OVH cloud or was it OV >> trying to o OVH cloud or was it OV cloud? Um there's some other players cloud? Um there's some other players cloud? Um there's some other players over there trying to do the thing. And over there trying to do the thing. And over there trying to do the thing. And more power to them. And if you want more power to them. And if you want more power to them. And if you want opportunity folks, why don't you go opportunity folks, why don't you go opportunity folks, why don't you go build a cloud build a cloud build a cloud just for Europeans and make sure it's just for Europeans and make sure it's just for Europeans and make sure it's there and don't have it connected to the there and don't have it connected to the there and don't have it connected to the US. That's an opportunity. US. That's an opportunity. US. That's an opportunity. >> I wonder. So, Apple in China, who do you >> I wonder. So, Apple in China, who do you >> I wonder. So, Apple in China, who do you think they're going to who's going to be think they're going to who's going to be think they're going to who's going to be their AI partner there? Do you think their AI partner there? Do you think their AI partner there? Do you think it'll be Alibaba or or Huawei or it'll be Alibaba or or Huawei or it'll be Alibaba or or Huawei or >> 10?

>> 10? >> 10? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I think I think Ali Cloud might >> I mean, I think I think Ali Cloud might >> I mean, I think I think Ali Cloud might be might have the best AI right now. I be might have the best AI right now. I be might have the best AI right now. I think that they've got Quinn think that they've got Quinn think that they've got Quinn >> that Quinn model is >> that Quinn model is >> that Quinn model is >> ridiculous, right? >> ridiculous, right? >> ridiculous, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. New one. And it's funny >> Yeah. Yeah. New one. And it's funny >> Yeah. Yeah. New one. And it's funny because uh even um and we've mentioned because uh even um and we've mentioned because uh even um and we've mentioned this before this before this before um people don't talk about it much, but um people don't talk about it much, but um people don't talk about it much, but whenever you see a Jensen Hang um slide whenever you see a Jensen Hang um slide whenever you see a Jensen Hang um slide on how fast and how performant the on how fast and how performant the on how fast and how performant the newest newest newest um you know, Blackwell Ultra, you know, um you know, Blackwell Ultra, you know, um you know, Blackwell Ultra, you know, is or whatever, you know, Vera Rubin. is or whatever, you know, Vera Rubin. is or whatever, you know, Vera Rubin. >> Mhm. They always show Deep Seek as the >> Mhm. They always show Deep Seek as the >> Mhm. They always show Deep Seek as the poster child for Kickass. poster child for Kickass. poster child for Kickass. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think that should bother >> And I think that should bother >> And I think that should bother everybody. everybody. everybody. You know, these folks that thought that, You know, these folks that thought that, You know, these folks that thought that, you know, Deep Seek was a nothing you know, Deep Seek was a nothing you know, Deep Seek was a nothing burger. Um, there were a lot of people, burger. Um, there were a lot of people, burger. Um, there were a lot of people, a lot of analysts, a lot of analysts, a lot of analysts, lot of lot of lot of AI infrastructure analysts too who AI infrastructure analysts too who AI infrastructure analysts too who basically dismissed it. You were wrong.

basically dismissed it. You were wrong. basically dismissed it. You were wrong. >> Well, they were, you know, it's like I >> Well, they were, you know, it's like I >> Well, they were, you know, it's like I don't know if it I mean because you're don't know if it I mean because you're don't know if it I mean because you're right. There's the outcome that we got right. There's the outcome that we got right. There's the outcome that we got that basically suppressed all the that basically suppressed all the that basically suppressed all the excitement around Deep Seek and I don't excitement around Deep Seek and I don't excitement around Deep Seek and I don't know you cuz I you know, we all read a know you cuz I you know, we all read a know you cuz I you know, we all read a lot of the same stuff. You know, was lot of the same stuff. You know, was lot of the same stuff. You know, was there a concerted effort by a bunch of there a concerted effort by a bunch of there a concerted effort by a bunch of players in the US and other words to to players in the US and other words to to players in the US and other words to to downplay and to try to make it seem like downplay and to try to make it seem like downplay and to try to make it seem like it was a nothing burger or whatever? In it was a nothing burger or whatever? In it was a nothing burger or whatever? In other words, what I'm getting at was did other words, what I'm getting at was did other words, what I'm getting at was did people honestly think it was nothing people honestly think it was nothing people honestly think it was nothing burger or was there a concerted effort I burger or was there a concerted effort I burger or was there a concerted effort I know this sounds like conspiracy theory know this sounds like conspiracy theory know this sounds like conspiracy theory stuff by a bunch of people to say no cuz stuff by a bunch of people to say no cuz stuff by a bunch of people to say no cuz any when remember when when the what was any when remember when when the what was any when remember when when the what was the version that came out or whatever um the version that came out or whatever um the version that came out or whatever um in the spring it blew everybody away. in the spring it blew everybody away. in the spring it blew everybody away. Yeah. and I downloaded it and ran a Yeah. and I downloaded it and ran a Yeah. and I downloaded it and ran a smaller, you know, parameter one on smaller, you know, parameter one on smaller, you know, parameter one on mytop mytop mytop and talked locally and it's like, yeah, and talked locally and it's like, yeah, and talked locally and it's like, yeah, this is the Yeah. this is the Yeah. this is the Yeah. >> Um, and so how and it should have taken >> Um, and so how and it should have taken >> Um, and so how and it should have taken and it did take over all the news media and it did take over all the news media and it did take over all the news media and suck the oxygen out of the room for and suck the oxygen out of the room for and suck the oxygen out of the room for a little while.

a little while. a little while. >> But then I think a whole lot of people >> But then I think a whole lot of people >> But then I think a whole lot of people who got like freaked out that cuz it it who got like freaked out that cuz it it who got like freaked out that cuz it it threatens all these American companies threatens all these American companies threatens all these American companies businesses, you know, when they say we businesses, you know, when they say we businesses, you know, when they say we didn't use that many GPUs or we didn't didn't use that many GPUs or we didn't didn't use that many GPUs or we didn't and we didn't need this or we don't need and we didn't need this or we don't need and we didn't need this or we don't need that giant infrastructure. that giant infrastructure. that giant infrastructure. >> Yeah. You know, you know who you know >> Yeah. You know, you know who you know >> Yeah. You know, you know who you know who would be happy about that is the who would be happy about that is the who would be happy about that is the CEOs and CFOs of most companies that CEOs and CFOs of most companies that CEOs and CFOs of most companies that says, "I sure would like to get some of says, "I sure would like to get some of says, "I sure would like to get some of that benefit without having to build that benefit without having to build that benefit without having to build billion dollar data centers that I can't billion dollar data centers that I can't billion dollar data centers that I can't afford." afford." afford." >> You know, there go >> You know, there go >> You know, there go >> Deep Deep Seek kind of showed a path to >> Deep Deep Seek kind of showed a path to >> Deep Deep Seek kind of showed a path to a a more economical future a a more economical future a a more economical future for getting that bang for your buck. for getting that bang for your buck. for getting that bang for your buck. Well, and then it flies in the face of Well, and then it flies in the face of Well, and then it flies in the face of um reasoning models requiring x number um reasoning models requiring x number um reasoning models requiring x number of, you know, thousands of tokens. Well, of, you know, thousands of tokens. Well, of, you know, thousands of tokens. Well, it just, you know, divide that by 100. it just, you know, divide that by 100. it just, you know, divide that by 100. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> That's not really great math for um a >> That's not really great math for um a >> That's not really great math for um a lot of the scaling crap that the AI lot of the scaling crap that the AI lot of the scaling crap that the AI infrastructure guys are putting out infrastructure guys are putting out infrastructure guys are putting out there right now to drive perception of there right now to drive perception of there right now to drive perception of demand. More tokens, we need more demand. More tokens, we need more demand. More tokens, we need more tokens. Well, you know, you got like a tokens. Well, you know, you got like a tokens. Well, you know, you got like a sparsee, sparsee, sparsee, highly efficient, highly efficient, highly efficient, um, and basically can pump out, um, it um, and basically can pump out, um, it um, and basically can pump out, um, it can pump out a quality answer with far can pump out a quality answer with far can pump out a quality answer with far less tokens than what you assumed.

less tokens than what you assumed. less tokens than what you assumed. Guess what, right? Guess what, right? Guess what, right? >> And you're only getting better at that. >> And you're only getting better at that. >> And you're only getting better at that. And um and you know there no one's And um and you know there no one's And um and you know there no one's really explained why it is that the really explained why it is that the really explained why it is that the Chinese are able to Chinese are able to Chinese are able to um with you know basically um with you know basically um with you know basically um get that same level quality you know um get that same level quality you know um get that same level quality you know like like like >> what they call whatever state-of-the-art >> what they call whatever state-of-the-art >> what they call whatever state-of-the-art SOTA is the new acronym SOTA performance SOTA is the new acronym SOTA performance SOTA is the new acronym SOTA performance uh with incredible efficiency right and uh with incredible efficiency right and uh with incredible efficiency right and yeah There is a t there was a ton of yeah There is a t there was a ton of yeah There is a t there was a ton of dime playing. First you had what's his dime playing. First you had what's his dime playing. First you had what's his face Sam Alman um flying to um face Sam Alman um flying to um face Sam Alman um flying to um Washington whining that uh Deep Seek has Washington whining that uh Deep Seek has Washington whining that uh Deep Seek has stolen all their IP and then he stolen all their IP and then he stolen all their IP and then he backtracked on. backtracked on. backtracked on. >> I know, >> I know, >> I know, >> you know. And then um Meta at the time, >> you know. And then um Meta at the time, >> you know. And then um Meta at the time, we have to remember this because people we have to remember this because people we have to remember this because people freaking forget freaking forget freaking forget Meta at the time was going to release Meta at the time was going to release Meta at the time was going to release Llama 4.

Llama 4. Llama 4. >> Mhm. didn't and it was a flop. >> Mhm. didn't and it was a flop. >> Mhm. didn't and it was a flop. >> They were also claiming that Deep Sea >> They were also claiming that Deep Sea >> They were also claiming that Deep Sea >> stole everything or whatever. Apparently >> stole everything or whatever. Apparently >> stole everything or whatever. Apparently didn't read the white paper. didn't read the white paper. didn't read the white paper. >> Um, and the rest is history. And then >> Um, and the rest is history. And then >> Um, and the rest is history. And then all of a sudden you get to hot chips. all of a sudden you get to hot chips. all of a sudden you get to hot chips. Everyone's talking about kernel Everyone's talking about kernel Everyone's talking about kernel programming, all kinds of stuff under programming, all kinds of stuff under programming, all kinds of stuff under the hood below CUDA optimizations that the hood below CUDA optimizations that the hood below CUDA optimizations that you do literally uh between the kernel you do literally uh between the kernel you do literally uh between the kernel and the hardware. I mean this is the and the hardware. I mean this is the and the hardware. I mean this is the crazy stuff that having high quality um crazy stuff that having high quality um crazy stuff that having high quality um full stack you know AI engineers can do. full stack you know AI engineers can do. full stack you know AI engineers can do. And actually I I think I I mentioned at And actually I I think I I mentioned at And actually I I think I I mentioned at one point CUDA has made the AI industry one point CUDA has made the AI industry one point CUDA has made the AI industry in the US lazy, in the US lazy, in the US lazy, right? Because right? Because right? Because I think Deep Seek proved that if you I think Deep Seek proved that if you I think Deep Seek proved that if you have to um drive the most efficient have to um drive the most efficient have to um drive the most efficient architecture and models, architecture and models, architecture and models, you you need to go below CUDA. You can't you you need to go below CUDA. You can't you you need to go below CUDA. You can't have lazy general purpose. You have to have lazy general purpose. You have to have lazy general purpose. You have to literally let me take whatever literally let me take whatever literally let me take whatever accelerator I have. Let me understand it accelerator I have. Let me understand it accelerator I have. Let me understand it and let me go and freaking and let me go and freaking and let me go and freaking optimize it for what I I know I need to optimize it for what I I know I need to optimize it for what I I know I need to do.

do. do. >> Right? This is why they came up with um >> Right? This is why they came up with um >> Right? This is why they came up with um you know a whole literally a full stack you know a whole literally a full stack you know a whole literally a full stack of tweaks that nobody thought of because of tweaks that nobody thought of because of tweaks that nobody thought of because everybody was like lazy working with the everybody was like lazy working with the everybody was like lazy working with the Nvidia stuff. Nvidia stuff. Nvidia stuff. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> And then the whole time Jensen's telling >> And then the whole time Jensen's telling >> And then the whole time Jensen's telling everyone buy more. everyone buy more. everyone buy more. >> Buy more and save more. >> Buy more and save more. >> Buy more and save more. >> Exactly. Exactly. It sounds like a >> Exactly. Exactly. It sounds like a >> Exactly. Exactly. It sounds like a commercial. commercial. commercial. >> Buy more and make more. I mean, so if >> Buy more and make more. I mean, so if >> Buy more and make more. I mean, so if you really think about at some point, you really think about at some point, you really think about at some point, >> we're going to come back to this episode >> we're going to come back to this episode >> we're going to come back to this episode and going to be reminding everyone this and going to be reminding everyone this and going to be reminding everyone this is what undermined the US um movement. is what undermined the US um movement. is what undermined the US um movement. We got lazy because of CUDA. We got lazy because of CUDA. We got lazy because of CUDA. >> There you go. Got lazy because of CUDA, >> There you go. Got lazy because of CUDA, >> There you go. Got lazy because of CUDA, >> right? And also >> right? And also >> right? And also >> and and CUDA, you know, CUDA created a >> and and CUDA, you know, CUDA created a >> and and CUDA, you know, CUDA created a moat for those guys for Jensen moat for those guys for Jensen moat for those guys for Jensen >> and a lot of people are like, you know >> and a lot of people are like, you know >> and a lot of people are like, you know what, why can't we have easy to use what, why can't we have easy to use what, why can't we have easy to use open- source, you know, software open- source, you know, software open- source, you know, software libraries to talk to these things, you libraries to talk to these things, you libraries to talk to these things, you know, know, know, >> um cuz I know Lisa Sue wants people to >> um cuz I know Lisa Sue wants people to >> um cuz I know Lisa Sue wants people to use her accelerators and not use CUDA.

use her accelerators and not use CUDA. use her accelerators and not use CUDA. Um, you know, Lip Bhutan, you know, I'm Um, you know, Lip Bhutan, you know, I'm Um, you know, Lip Bhutan, you know, I'm sure he's hoping one day that the Gaudy sure he's hoping one day that the Gaudy sure he's hoping one day that the Gaudy or whatever comes later, uh, can be or whatever comes later, uh, can be or whatever comes later, uh, can be used. I think they have the open veno is used. I think they have the open veno is used. I think they have the open veno is what Intel's always had. what Intel's always had. what Intel's always had. >> Yeah. Open. >> Yeah. Open. >> Yeah. Open. >> Yeah. And, uh, and yeah, that's >> Yeah. And, uh, and yeah, that's >> Yeah. And, uh, and yeah, that's >> API and all that stuff should be, you >> API and all that stuff should be, you >> API and all that stuff should be, you know, I get it. Business is business and know, I get it. Business is business and know, I get it. Business is business and and you know what, I get it. You want to and you know what, I get it. You want to and you know what, I get it. You want to in fact the goal of business as Peter in fact the goal of business as Peter in fact the goal of business as Peter Teal would in 0ero to one the ultimate Teal would in 0ero to one the ultimate Teal would in 0ero to one the ultimate goal is to create a monopoly and to lock goal is to create a monopoly and to lock goal is to create a monopoly and to lock out everybody. Now he and he doesn't out everybody. Now he and he doesn't out everybody. Now he and he doesn't mean that in a bad way but the goal is mean that in a bad way but the goal is mean that in a bad way but the goal is if you're super successful you have just if you're super successful you have just if you're super successful you have just created a whole world for yourself and created a whole world for yourself and created a whole world for yourself and you're the you dominate it and nobody you're the you dominate it and nobody you're the you dominate it and nobody has a chance and it looks like a has a chance and it looks like a has a chance and it looks like a monopoly. Monopolies are not illegal. uh monopoly. Monopolies are not illegal. uh monopoly. Monopolies are not illegal. uh the the you know they can't if you use the the you know they can't if you use the the you know they can't if you use monopoly power badly then yeah you can monopoly power badly then yeah you can monopoly power badly then yeah you can get competitive monopolistic um behavior get competitive monopolistic um behavior get competitive monopolistic um behavior or uncompetitive behavior is or uncompetitive behavior is or uncompetitive behavior is >> and that's a big difference you're >> and that's a big difference you're >> and that's a big difference you're absolutely right um but you know here's absolutely right um but you know here's absolutely right um but you know here's the thing where we need to you know I the thing where we need to you know I the thing where we need to you know I think the audience can can reflect back think the audience can can reflect back think the audience can can reflect back on some of our prior episodes where we on some of our prior episodes where we on some of our prior episodes where we talk about open I think open is good for talk about open I think open is good for talk about open I think open is good for diffusion diffusion diffusion facilitating diffusion, but that's after facilitating diffusion, but that's after facilitating diffusion, but that's after everything has already been kind of everything has already been kind of everything has already been kind of optimized at a very foundational level optimized at a very foundational level optimized at a very foundational level and then you're abstracting up and then and then you're abstracting up and then and then you're abstracting up and then there's like a consumption level right there's like a consumption level right there's like a consumption level right closer to the app stuff where open can

closer to the app stuff where open can closer to the app stuff where open can be definitely beneficial but what Apple be definitely beneficial but what Apple be definitely beneficial but what Apple has proven has proven has proven uh and only Apple at this point you know uh and only Apple at this point you know uh and only Apple at this point you know Nvidia maybe time will tell is they've Nvidia maybe time will tell is they've Nvidia maybe time will tell is they've basically taken that whole stack and basically taken that whole stack and basically taken that whole stack and they've diffused at a massive scale, but they've diffused at a massive scale, but they've diffused at a massive scale, but they've channeled extreme quality and they've channeled extreme quality and they've channeled extreme quality and optimization through that whole stack optimization through that whole stack optimization through that whole stack that you can't get through an open that you can't get through an open that you can't get through an open approach, right? And you still can't get approach, right? And you still can't get approach, right? And you still can't get that through an open approach. And so, that through an open approach. And so, that through an open approach. And so, you know, you know, you know, >> yeah, you know, I did that uh I did that >> yeah, you know, I did that uh I did that >> yeah, you know, I did that uh I did that um um article on uh what is it? AI, um um article on uh what is it? AI, um um article on uh what is it? AI, practical AI for telco with Ericson, practical AI for telco with Ericson, practical AI for telco with Ericson, right? That was my whole point, you right? That was my whole point, you right? That was my whole point, you know, and we had a couple, you know, one know, and we had a couple, you know, one know, and we had a couple, you know, one guy who I know, um, he came in and said, guy who I know, um, he came in and said, guy who I know, um, he came in and said, "Well, you know, how come you're "Well, you know, how come you're "Well, you know, how come you're advocating for, you know, like freaking advocating for, you know, like freaking advocating for, you know, like freaking purpose-built and all that stuff because purpose-built and all that stuff because purpose-built and all that stuff because purpose built is proven it works and purpose built is proven it works and purpose built is proven it works and freaking they have stuff in the field freaking they have stuff in the field freaking they have stuff in the field that works. That's quote unquote, you that works. That's quote unquote, you that works. That's quote unquote, you know, one or two tiers of this AI ran know, one or two tiers of this AI ran know, one or two tiers of this AI ran crap that you guys are talking, which by crap that you guys are talking, which by crap that you guys are talking, which by the way, I think is like kind of a the way, I think is like kind of a the way, I think is like kind of a ridiculous concept. No, it it's it's ridiculous concept. No, it it's it's ridiculous concept. No, it it's it's just kind of goofy. But just kind of goofy. But just kind of goofy. But >> you know what I'm saying?

>> you know what I'm saying? >> you know what I'm saying? >> Remember when Yeah, I do. Remember when >> Remember when Yeah, I do. Remember when >> Remember when Yeah, I do. Remember when I was at Ericson and we were there was I was at Ericson and we were there was I was at Ericson and we were there was the idea of using machine learning um to the idea of using machine learning um to the idea of using machine learning um to to train models in the network to to to train models in the network to to to train models in the network to to deter you know predictive pathways and deter you know predictive pathways and deter you know predictive pathways and more efficiency for how things to go. It more efficiency for how things to go. It more efficiency for how things to go. It had nothing to do with this generative had nothing to do with this generative had nothing to do with this generative AI stuff though. Um, it was super AI stuff though. Um, it was super AI stuff though. Um, it was super purpose-built, super narrowly focused ML purpose-built, super narrowly focused ML purpose-built, super narrowly focused ML models. models. models. >> And I remember us doing a partnership >> And I remember us doing a partnership >> And I remember us doing a partnership with Nvidia to accelerate those ML with Nvidia to accelerate those ML with Nvidia to accelerate those ML models and all that makes sense to me, models and all that makes sense to me, models and all that makes sense to me, you know, it's like I want to make my you know, it's like I want to make my you know, it's like I want to make my network more faster and more efficient, network more faster and more efficient, network more faster and more efficient, lower cost for my customers, you know, lower cost for my customers, you know, lower cost for my customers, you know, all that good stuff. And so, yeah, but all that good stuff. And so, yeah, but all that good stuff. And so, yeah, but some of this is just bonkers. Um, some of this is just bonkers. Um, some of this is just bonkers. Um, >> yeah. Yeah. And um yeah, you know, as >> yeah. Yeah. And um yeah, you know, as >> yeah. Yeah. And um yeah, you know, as you and I have talked about so many you and I have talked about so many you and I have talked about so many times, the economics of the edge is a times, the economics of the edge is a times, the economics of the edge is a It's a It is a It's a It is a It's a It is a You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. >> And so you whatever you whatever you >> And so you whatever you whatever you >> And so you whatever you whatever you assume, assume, assume, um work somewhere else. Don't assume it um work somewhere else. Don't assume it um work somewhere else. Don't assume it works at the edge.

works at the edge. works at the edge. >> Exactly. Boy, I know. We're just making >> Exactly. Boy, I know. We're just making >> Exactly. Boy, I know. We're just making so many people not happy with this. so many people not happy with this. so many people not happy with this. >> Um you know what? I have a great quote >> Um you know what? I have a great quote >> Um you know what? I have a great quote here. One of my buddies, one of my tech here. One of my buddies, one of my tech here. One of my buddies, one of my tech buddies in Seattle, what did he said the buddies in Seattle, what did he said the buddies in Seattle, what did he said the funniest thing? He knows about open funniest thing? He knows about open funniest thing? He knows about open source and this will make every open source and this will make every open source and this will make every open source person hate us instantly or at source person hate us instantly or at source person hate us instantly or at least hate me. Uh, least hate me. Uh, least hate me. Uh, >> dude, >> dude, >> dude, >> they would have hated us a long time >> they would have hated us a long time >> they would have hated us a long time ago. We've been saying stuff for like ago. We've been saying stuff for like ago. We've been saying stuff for like freaking six years. freaking six years. freaking six years. >> That's true. That's true. I mean, you >> That's true. That's true. I mean, you >> That's true. That's true. I mean, you know, know, know, >> I mean, but gosh, let me find it. It's >> I mean, but gosh, let me find it. It's >> I mean, but gosh, let me find it. It's here. I'm looking in my WhatsApp. Yeah. here. I'm looking in my WhatsApp. Yeah. here. I'm looking in my WhatsApp. Yeah. >> app here. It's It was really funny, but >> app here. It's It was really funny, but >> app here. It's It was really funny, but he was basically just blasting open he was basically just blasting open he was basically just blasting open source. He's a business owner and he's source. He's a business owner and he's source. He's a business owner and he's just like, you know, show me how that's just like, you know, show me how that's just like, you know, show me how that's going to be a big money maker ever. going to be a big money maker ever. going to be a big money maker ever. Um I know we've had a lot of startups Um I know we've had a lot of startups Um I know we've had a lot of startups based on open source in the last decade based on open source in the last decade based on open source in the last decade and a half. Um, and a half. Um, and a half. Um, but you know, but you know, but you know, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I've actually heard I've heard pretty >> I've actually heard I've heard pretty >> I've actually heard I've heard pretty I've heard insane stuff about open I've heard insane stuff about open I've heard insane stuff about open source like it's some socialist source like it's some socialist source like it's some socialist conspiracy or something like that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, there there is something to actually there there is something to actually there there is something to actually wanting to compete and not just throwing wanting to compete and not just throwing wanting to compete and not just throwing everything out there in a kumbaya kind everything out there in a kumbaya kind everything out there in a kumbaya kind of way, you know. I mean, of way, you know. I mean, of way, you know. I mean, >> right, right, absolutely. Absolutely. >> right, right, absolutely. Absolutely. >> right, right, absolutely. Absolutely. You're right. Um, You're right. Um, You're right. Um, >> yeah, you know, I think everything has >> yeah, you know, I think everything has >> yeah, you know, I think everything has its place. There's the Kumbaya thing and its place. There's the Kumbaya thing and its place. There's the Kumbaya thing and you know, you know, you know, >> all those Kumbaya open source people who >> all those Kumbaya open source people who >> all those Kumbaya open source people who built all that great technology that built all that great technology that built all that great technology that that AWS used to build their cloud and that AWS used to build their cloud and that AWS used to build their cloud and then they're all sitting there waiting then they're all sitting there waiting then they're all sitting there waiting to get a check that never comes and AWS to get a check that never comes and AWS to get a check that never comes and AWS built the biggest cloud in the world. built the biggest cloud in the world. built the biggest cloud in the world. >> Sorry guys, thanks. Thanks for the space >> Sorry guys, thanks. Thanks for the space >> Sorry guys, thanks. Thanks for the space software. >> Yeah, we're going to build build a >> Yeah, we're going to build build a business around it. We're going to business around it. We're going to business around it. We're going to implement we're going to uh deliver implement we're going to uh deliver implement we're going to uh deliver applications built on this stuff applications built on this stuff applications built on this stuff >> uh as a service and make a crap ton of >> uh as a service and make a crap ton of >> uh as a service and make a crap ton of money. money. money. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> I mean it's like you know it's I mean >> I mean it's like you know it's I mean >> I mean it's like you know it's I mean that's Yeah. that's Yeah. that's Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And everyone complains about them and >> And everyone complains about them and >> And everyone complains about them and >> Yeah. you know, hey, so like, you know, >> Yeah. you know, hey, so like, you know, >> Yeah. you know, hey, so like, you know, if we think, you know, remember all that if we think, you know, remember all that if we think, you know, remember all that talk when uh what's her name, the CFO talk when uh what's her name, the CFO talk when uh what's her name, the CFO for uh OpenAI for uh OpenAI for uh OpenAI >> came out and talked about needing a >> came out and talked about needing a >> came out and talked about needing a backs stop from the government backs stop from the government backs stop from the government >> to like a bailout and she had to walk >> to like a bailout and she had to walk >> to like a bailout and she had to walk that one back. that one back. that one back. >> She's like, "That's not what I meant." >> She's like, "That's not what I meant." >> She's like, "That's not what I meant." Whatever. But a whole lot of people are Whatever. But a whole lot of people are Whatever. But a whole lot of people are like, "What?" like, "What?" like, "What?" >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's all so important >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's all so important >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's all so important that we need to make sure the US that we need to make sure the US that we need to make sure the US government backs us as we do the most government backs us as we do the most government backs us as we do the most ludicrous amount of money spending and ludicrous amount of money spending and ludicrous amount of money spending and stuff to to build all this thing that stuff to to build all this thing that stuff to to build all this thing that you know. you know. you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, it's such a weird deal. Um >> Um, you know, it's such a weird deal. Um >> Um, you know, it's such a weird deal. Um I get like Oracle I get like Oracle I get like Oracle going going going this thing this thing this thing what we're saying is and I'm sure that's what we're saying is and I'm sure that's what we're saying is and I'm sure that's you know what Clay and everybody there you know what Clay and everybody there you know what Clay and everybody there at Oracle is thinking we are at this at Oracle is thinking we are at this at Oracle is thinking we are at this moment in time and we need to seize this moment in time and we need to seize this moment in time and we need to seize this moment there like this transformational moment there like this transformational moment there like this transformational thing and if we sit back and just watch thing and if we sit back and just watch thing and if we sit back and just watch it happen we'll be the losers in the it happen we'll be the losers in the it happen we'll be the losers in the next wave and so we have no choice but next wave and so we have no choice but next wave and so we have no choice but to try to go make sure that we're a to try to go make sure that we're a to try to go make sure that we're a leader or part of this in a giant way leader or part of this in a giant way leader or part of this in a giant way and we have no choice. You know, and we have no choice. You know, and we have no choice. You know, something like that, you know, like that something like that, you know, like that something like that, you know, like that whole we seize this opportunity that's whole we seize this opportunity that's whole we seize this opportunity that's presented to us presented to us presented to us >> which I think is kind of sad because I >> which I think is kind of sad because I >> which I think is kind of sad because I have to be very honest with you and I've

have to be very honest with you and I've have to be very honest with you and I've I we've mentioned this on the show as I we've mentioned this on the show as I we've mentioned this on the show as well. Um, Larry Ellison probably knew well. Um, Larry Ellison probably knew well. Um, Larry Ellison probably knew cloud what a good cloud strate cloud cloud what a good cloud strate cloud cloud what a good cloud strate cloud strategy was even more than strategy was even more than strategy was even more than AWS and these other guys. AWS and these other guys. AWS and these other guys. He he had a great cloud strategy He he had a great cloud strategy He he had a great cloud strategy >> and >> and >> and they also have a great business, right? they also have a great business, right? they also have a great business, right? generating huge amounts of cash flow and generating huge amounts of cash flow and generating huge amounts of cash flow and they're putting all that on the they're putting all that on the they're putting all that on the freaking, you know, table and they're freaking, you know, table and they're freaking, you know, table and they're they're gambling on it, you know, they're gambling on it, you know, they're gambling on it, you know, >> and um I have to be honest. I don't >> and um I have to be honest. I don't >> and um I have to be honest. I don't think it's going to go well, but that's think it's going to go well, but that's think it's going to go well, but that's just just just >> Yeah, we'll find out >> Yeah, we'll find out >> Yeah, we'll find out >> what I'm seeing. I I have to be very >> what I'm seeing. I I have to be very >> what I'm seeing. I I have to be very honest about it. But as an analyst, you honest about it. But as an analyst, you honest about it. But as an analyst, you can't I mean, I if you look at the cards can't I mean, I if you look at the cards can't I mean, I if you look at the cards on the table, it it ain't looking all on the table, it it ain't looking all on the table, it it ain't looking all that great. Uh even though, you know, that great. Uh even though, you know, that great. Uh even though, you know, there is there are narratives out there there is there are narratives out there there is there are narratives out there that want to continue to pump the hype that want to continue to pump the hype that want to continue to pump the hype and excitement, um the math doesn't add and excitement, um the math doesn't add and excitement, um the math doesn't add up. So, up. So, up. So, >> yeah. I mean, did did Masan sell all his >> yeah. I mean, did did Masan sell all his >> yeah. I mean, did did Masan sell all his Nvidia stock to help Nvidia stock to help Nvidia stock to help >> to get cash >> to get cash >> to get cash and open AI and Oracle and all that big and open AI and Oracle and all that big and open AI and Oracle and all that big investment that he committed to?

investment that he committed to? investment that he committed to? >> No comment. No comment. >> No comment. No comment. >> No comment. No comment. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but do you know what >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but do you know what >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but do you know what I'm saying? It's um Oracle, I'm saying? It's um Oracle, I'm saying? It's um Oracle, you know, going back to that comment you you know, going back to that comment you you know, going back to that comment you made before has a freaking great ass made before has a freaking great ass made before has a freaking great ass business. business. business. >> Yeah. what I'm saying. >> Yeah. what I'm saying. >> Yeah. what I'm saying. >> Um, if you took out all of the AI >> Um, if you took out all of the AI >> Um, if you took out all of the AI infrastructure or NeoCloud stuff that infrastructure or NeoCloud stuff that infrastructure or NeoCloud stuff that they're doing, you know, they're doing, you know, they're doing, you know, >> um, >> um, >> um, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> core and and >> core and and >> core and and >> fantastic, >> fantastic, >> fantastic, >> good stuff. They built a great cloud. >> good stuff. They built a great cloud. >> good stuff. They built a great cloud. >> Yeah. And um, we'll see what happens. >> Yeah. And um, we'll see what happens. >> Yeah. And um, we'll see what happens. Yeah, we got a lot of friends over there Yeah, we got a lot of friends over there Yeah, we got a lot of friends over there and I want nothing but good things for and I want nothing but good things for and I want nothing but good things for the folks at Oracle just like looking at the folks at Oracle just like looking at the folks at Oracle just like looking at big mega trends that are happening and big mega trends that are happening and big mega trends that are happening and choices that are people are making and choices that are people are making and choices that are people are making and will it play out well it won't and a will it play out well it won't and a will it play out well it won't and a whole lot of people Oracle is just one whole lot of people Oracle is just one whole lot of people Oracle is just one of many who have said yes this is the of many who have said yes this is the of many who have said yes this is the moment we've got to meet the moment and moment we've got to meet the moment and moment we've got to meet the moment and we're going to do this thing because we're going to do this thing because we're going to do this thing because Amazon's doing it Microsoft's doing it Amazon's doing it Microsoft's doing it Amazon's doing it Microsoft's doing it everybody's doing it everybody has the everybody's doing it everybody has the everybody's doing it everybody has the money to do it and then even those who money to do it and then even those who money to do it and then even those who people don't money like the people the people don't money like the people the people don't money like the people the startups who are doing the neoclouds startups who are doing the neoclouds startups who are doing the neoclouds that just getting VC funding or funding that just getting VC funding or funding that just getting VC funding or funding from wherever, I don't know, to build from wherever, I don't know, to build from wherever, I don't know, to build their their GPU data centers, you know.

their their GPU data centers, you know. their their GPU data centers, you know. Um, and they're and they're and they're Um, and they're and they're and they're Um, and they're and they're and they're Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's a circular Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's a circular Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's a circular economy. Never mind. >> Yeah. I mean, um, in the middle of it, >> Yeah. I mean, um, in the middle of it, it it it really not as much money as everyone really not as much money as everyone really not as much money as everyone thinks it is, right? in terms of thinks it is, right? in terms of thinks it is, right? in terms of >> the investment side definitely but >> the investment side definitely but >> the investment side definitely but where's what's hydrating it? Where's the where's what's hydrating it? Where's the where's what's hydrating it? Where's the organic? Um, organic? Um, organic? Um, >> right cuz like Microsoft throws money at >> right cuz like Microsoft throws money at >> right cuz like Microsoft throws money at an unnamed Neocloud an unnamed Neocloud an unnamed Neocloud um and then Microsoft uses that Neocloud um and then Microsoft uses that Neocloud um and then Microsoft uses that Neocloud as overflow GPU usage for C-pilot as overflow GPU usage for C-pilot as overflow GPU usage for C-pilot because they don't have enough in Azure because they don't have enough in Azure because they don't have enough in Azure potentially, you know, or we're running potentially, you know, or we're running potentially, you know, or we're running into, you know, and so it's like, into, you know, and so it's like, into, you know, and so it's like, >> no, it's it's basically >> no, it's it's basically >> no, it's it's basically >> it's that Spider-Man picture where >> it's that Spider-Man picture where >> it's that Spider-Man picture where they're all three guys Spider-Man they're all three guys Spider-Man they're all three guys Spider-Man pointing at each other. That's how we're pointing at each other. That's how we're pointing at each other. That's how we're going to do that. That's how we're going going to do that. That's how we're going going to do that. That's how we're going to whole thing, this whole circular AI to whole thing, this whole circular AI to whole thing, this whole circular AI economy. I'm paying you, but then you're economy. I'm paying you, but then you're economy. I'm paying you, but then you're going to give me this and then I'm doing going to give me this and then I'm doing going to give me this and then I'm doing this and we're all just trading this and we're all just trading this and we're all just trading trillions amongst each other and it's trillions amongst each other and it's trillions amongst each other and it's just a handful of companies literally just a handful of companies literally just a handful of companies literally procking up the entire economy. There's procking up the entire economy. There's procking up the entire economy. There's a lot of people, financial people are a lot of people, financial people are a lot of people, financial people are like, "The economy has actually been like, "The economy has actually been like, "The economy has actually been crashing for a while, but we're create, crashing for a while, but we're create, crashing for a while, but we're create, we've had this illusion on Wall Street, we've had this illusion on Wall Street, we've had this illusion on Wall Street, um that things are great, but it really um that things are great, but it really um that things are great, but it really has been propped up by just a handful of has been propped up by just a handful of has been propped up by just a handful of companies just sliding trillions around, companies just sliding trillions around, companies just sliding trillions around, but you know, it's wild."

but you know, it's wild." but you know, it's wild." >> Yeah. I mean, you know, think about it. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, think about it. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, think about it. A billion a billion dollars used to be a A billion a billion dollars used to be a A billion a billion dollars used to be a big number. big number. big number. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Now these guys like around 100. I mean, >> Now these guys like around 100. I mean, >> Now these guys like around 100. I mean, you know, it's like, you know, hey, you you know, it's like, you know, hey, you you know, it's like, you know, hey, you know, let's see how they'll respond to a know, let's see how they'll respond to a know, let's see how they'll respond to a trillion. trillion. trillion. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it just that >> Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it just that >> Yeah. Absolutely. You know, it just that reminds me of a scene in Wall Street, reminds me of a scene in Wall Street, reminds me of a scene in Wall Street, which I use lots of Wall Street which I use lots of Wall Street which I use lots of Wall Street references. Remember Gordon Gecko is in references. Remember Gordon Gecko is in references. Remember Gordon Gecko is in his limo with Bud Fox and they're kind his limo with Bud Fox and they're kind his limo with Bud Fox and they're kind of driving down through New York and he of driving down through New York and he of driving down through New York and he goes, "H, you see that little building goes, "H, you see that little building goes, "H, you see that little building over there? That was my first real over there? That was my first real over there? That was my first real estate deal and cost me like $800,000. I estate deal and cost me like $800,000. I estate deal and cost me like $800,000. I thought that was all the money in the thought that was all the money in the thought that was all the money in the world. Now it's just a day's pay. world. Now it's just a day's pay. world. Now it's just a day's pay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's nothing. Just like you said, a >> It's nothing. Just like you said, a >> It's nothing. Just like you said, a billion dollars. It's Trump change now. billion dollars. It's Trump change now. billion dollars. It's Trump change now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, crazy. >> You know, crazy. >> You know, crazy. >> All right, man. >> All right, man. >> All right, man. >> Well, this has been an amazing deep >> Well, this has been an amazing deep >> Well, this has been an amazing deep >> and varied episode of AI coffee talk.

>> and varied episode of AI coffee talk. >> and varied episode of AI coffee talk. Um, I think people have got No, I think Um, I think people have got No, I think Um, I think people have got No, I think we've dropped more knowledge about AI we've dropped more knowledge about AI we've dropped more knowledge about AI and all the players and what's happening and all the players and what's happening and all the players and what's happening than you're going to hear on most of any than you're going to hear on most of any than you're going to hear on most of any of your high-end AI podcasts. of your high-end AI podcasts. of your high-end AI podcasts. >> So, um, it's probably a good thing >> So, um, it's probably a good thing >> So, um, it's probably a good thing people are showing up in the trillions, people are showing up in the trillions, people are showing up in the trillions, you know, that's good. you know, that's good. you know, that's good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's going to be >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's going to be >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's going to be This is going to be like a um time This is going to be like a um time This is going to be like a um time capsule for us. capsule for us. capsule for us. >> It is. It is. >> It is. It is. >> It is. It is. >> It'll be buried. Nobody knows about it. >> It'll be buried. Nobody knows about it. >> It'll be buried. Nobody knows about it. And one of these days aliens will And one of these days aliens will And one of these days aliens will watch it and go, "Oh, hey, watch it and go, "Oh, hey, watch it and go, "Oh, hey, >> exactly." So, are you flying to Vegas >> exactly." So, are you flying to Vegas >> exactly." So, are you flying to Vegas tomorrow? tomorrow? tomorrow? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Me, too. >> All right. Me, too. >> All right. Me, too. >> Yeah. Reinvent next week. >> Yeah. Reinvent next week. >> Yeah. Reinvent next week. >> Reinvent. So, we'll be there. >> Reinvent. So, we'll be there. >> Reinvent. So, we'll be there. >> All in. >> All in. >> All in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> At the win. We're all in with the win, >> At the win. We're all in with the win, >> At the win. We're all in with the win, you know. you know. you know. >> Yes. And my schedule is ridiculously >> Yes. And my schedule is ridiculously >> Yes. And my schedule is ridiculously packed. packed. packed. >> Solid. And I keep having all these other >> Solid. And I keep having all these other >> Solid. And I keep having all these other people from other companies, vendors who people from other companies, vendors who people from other companies, vendors who are also there that are not AWS, but are also there that are not AWS, but are also there that are not AWS, but they want to meet with you. Hey, I heard they want to meet with you. Hey, I heard they want to meet with you. Hey, I heard that you're at reinvent.

that you're at reinvent. that you're at reinvent. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Can you carve out some time for me? I >> Can you carve out some time for me? I >> Can you carve out some time for me? I was like, dude, you should see the was like, dude, you should see the was like, dude, you should see the calendar. You know, there's no way. calendar. You know, there's no way. calendar. You know, there's no way. We're just solid. We're just solid. We're just solid. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just solid. >> Just solid. >> Just solid. >> I think I'm going to be there. I'm going >> I think I'm going to be there. I'm going >> I think I'm going to be there. I'm going to be there an extra day just so that I to be there an extra day just so that I to be there an extra day just so that I can get out on the exhibition floor. can get out on the exhibition floor. can get out on the exhibition floor. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, Um, Um, >> that's one of the problems with events >> that's one of the problems with events >> that's one of the problems with events where GTC is like this where the AR where GTC is like this where the AR where GTC is like this where the AR program sucks all the oxygen out of your program sucks all the oxygen out of your program sucks all the oxygen out of your >> your schedule and you don't get to see >> your schedule and you don't get to see >> your schedule and you don't get to see anything and you know this year at GTC anything and you know this year at GTC anything and you know this year at GTC the most interest you know I I would say the most interest you know I I would say the most interest you know I I would say about 80% of the analyst stuff it was about 80% of the analyst stuff it was about 80% of the analyst stuff it was just stuff that we could have just just just stuff that we could have just just just stuff that we could have just just freaking sent me the press release or freaking sent me the press release or freaking sent me the press release or made the brief whatever. made the brief whatever. made the brief whatever. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I the the two or two um sessions I went >> I the the two or two um sessions I went >> I the the two or two um sessions I went to the first day where I snuck out to the first day where I snuck out to the first day where I snuck out of the program.

of the program. of the program. I got 90% of the insight. I got 90% of the insight. I got 90% of the insight. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Everybody else was just like, "Oh my >> Everybody else was just like, "Oh my >> Everybody else was just like, "Oh my god." All right. Here, let me feed you god." All right. Here, let me feed you god." All right. Here, let me feed you stuff. It's like, "Look, I'm not a stuff. It's like, "Look, I'm not a stuff. It's like, "Look, I'm not a baby." baby." baby." >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> I don't need the party line. I want to >> I don't need the party line. I want to >> I don't need the party line. I want to ask tough questions. ask tough questions. ask tough questions. >> I want to get answers. I don't need you >> I want to get answers. I don't need you >> I want to get answers. I don't need you lecturing me about how I need to think lecturing me about how I need to think lecturing me about how I need to think about stuff. about stuff. about stuff. >> You almost sound like Dr. Evil >> You almost sound like Dr. Evil >> You almost sound like Dr. Evil talking right now. I info, you know. I'm talking right now. I info, you know. I'm talking right now. I info, you know. I'm surrounded by freaking idiots. surrounded by freaking idiots. surrounded by freaking idiots. >> Well, I mean, you know, um, ideally >> Well, I mean, you know, um, ideally >> Well, I mean, you know, um, ideally that's what you do as an analyst, right? that's what you do as an analyst, right? that's what you do as an analyst, right? you're you want to you're you want to you're you want to ask those questions that are, you know, ask those questions that are, you know, ask those questions that are, you know, um um um >> I need sharks with freaking laser beams. >> I need sharks with freaking laser beams. >> I need sharks with freaking laser beams. >> Laser beams. >> So, it'll be fun. I mean, >> So, it'll be fun. I mean, >> we're going to see a lot of people we >> we're going to see a lot of people we >> we're going to see a lot of people we know. It'll be fun. We'll have a good know. It'll be fun. We'll have a good know. It'll be fun. We'll have a good time. You know, when I think of the win time. You know, when I think of the win time. You know, when I think of the win and next door encore, I always think of and next door encore, I always think of and next door encore, I always think of our favorite Sinatra Italian place there our favorite Sinatra Italian place there our favorite Sinatra Italian place there at Encore.

at Encore. at Encore. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, of course, they're only open like a >> Oh, of course, they're only open like a >> Oh, of course, they're only open like a few days and it's probably not while few days and it's probably not while few days and it's probably not while we're there. I don't know. You never we're there. I don't know. You never we're there. I don't know. You never know. know. know. >> Well, anyways, we'll be in uh we'll be >> Well, anyways, we'll be in uh we'll be >> Well, anyways, we'll be in uh we'll be in uh Vegas again in uh Vegas again in uh Vegas again um for CES. So, um for CES. So, um for CES. So, >> it seems like everybody we know is going >> it seems like everybody we know is going >> it seems like everybody we know is going to be at CES. to be at CES. to be at CES. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I think it's going to be a blast. We're >> I think it's going to be a blast. We're >> I think it's going to be a blast. We're have a good time at CES have a good time at CES have a good time at CES >> Industries, right? >> Industries, right? >> Industries, right? >> Yes. Yes. Much love for those guys. >> Yes. Yes. Much love for those guys. >> Yes. Yes. Much love for those guys. Linky. Yeah. I love that. Linky. Yeah. I love that. Linky. Yeah. I love that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We're >> Yeah. We're >> Yeah. We're >> know everybody, dude. Oh, as it turns >> know everybody, dude. Oh, as it turns >> know everybody, dude. Oh, as it turns out. Yeah. Right. Good point. out. Yeah. Right. Good point. out. Yeah. Right. Good point. >> All right, man. You want to wrap it up >> All right, man. You want to wrap it up >> All right, man. You want to wrap it up or or or >> Sure. Sure. Thanks for another >> Sure. Sure. Thanks for another >> Sure. Sure. Thanks for another fabulous episode of AI/IoT fabulous episode of AI/IoT fabulous episode of AI/IoT coffee talk where we just went deep deep coffee talk where we just went deep deep coffee talk where we just went deep deep deep deeper than the all-in guys, deeper deep deeper than the all-in guys, deeper deep deeper than the all-in guys, deeper than the moonshot guys on AI. Even than the moonshot guys on AI. Even than the moonshot guys on AI. Even though neither of us have PhDs from MIT, though neither of us have PhDs from MIT, though neither of us have PhDs from MIT, it turns out we really know the deal in it turns out we really know the deal in it turns out we really know the deal in ways that they don't. So, don't always ways that they don't. So, don't always ways that they don't. So, don't always drink the Kool-Aid like a lot of these drink the Kool-Aid like a lot of these drink the Kool-Aid like a lot of these other people. They might have other other people. They might have other other people. They might have other alternative alternative alternative ulterior motives for their companies and ulterior motives for their companies and ulterior motives for their companies and their stock portfolios and stuff like their stock portfolios and stuff like their stock portfolios and stuff like that. And so, it may not be getting the that. And so, it may not be getting the that. And so, it may not be getting the real deal. And luckily, as it turns out, real deal. And luckily, as it turns out, real deal. And luckily, as it turns out, as Leonard said, we know everybody and as Leonard said, we know everybody and as Leonard said, we know everybody and they all know us and we know what's they all know us and we know what's they all know us and we know what's really going on. We know the scoop. we thing is going to end up with three thing is going to end up with three Spider-Man guys like pointing at each Spider-Man guys like pointing at each Spider-Man guys like pointing at each other going

other going other going who's who's the one that actually has who's who's the one that actually has who's who's the one that actually has cash, right? Yes. Oh my gosh. So, uh Oh my right? Yes. Oh my gosh. So, uh Oh my god. So, yes, I'm broadcasting live from god. So, yes, I'm broadcasting live from god. So, yes, I'm broadcasting live from Houston, Texas. Um you know, and so Houston, Texas. Um you know, and so Houston, Texas. Um you know, and so that's exciting. You know, it's uh it's that's exciting. You know, it's uh it's that's exciting. You know, it's uh it's a little warmer than Seattle and a a little warmer than Seattle and a a little warmer than Seattle and a little sunnier. So, uh, I guess we'll little sunnier. So, uh, I guess we'll little sunnier. So, uh, I guess we'll have to take that. That's a That's a have to take that. That's a That's a have to take that. That's a That's a good thing. good thing. good thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's not a virtual background. >> And that's not a virtual background. >> And that's not a virtual background. That's actually his home. That's like That's actually his home. That's like That's actually his home. That's like one of the many blank one of the many blank one of the many blank >> It's a blank wall. Yes. If it sounds >> It's a blank wall. Yes. If it sounds >> It's a blank wall. Yes. If it sounds echoey in here, it's cuz it's hardwood echoey in here, it's cuz it's hardwood echoey in here, it's cuz it's hardwood floors and I have no furniture or no floors and I have no furniture or no floors and I have no furniture or no room cuz the furniture is not here yet. room cuz the furniture is not here yet. room cuz the furniture is not here yet. So, I'm literally sitting on the floor. So, I'm literally sitting on the floor. So, I'm literally sitting on the floor. Uh, you know, Uh, you know, Uh, you know, who knows? And so the big thing I know who knows? And so the big thing I know who knows? And so the big thing I know you're always wondering from Leonard and you're always wondering from Leonard and you're always wondering from Leonard and I since we kind of know what's going to I since we kind of know what's going to I since we kind of know what's going to happen in the future better is is the happen in the future better is is the happen in the future better is is the future going to be like Logan's Run or future going to be like Logan's Run or future going to be like Logan's Run or is the future going to be like the is the future going to be like the is the future going to be like the Matrix? Well, you'll need to tune in Matrix? Well, you'll need to tune in Matrix? Well, you'll need to tune in next week and as we kind of peel the next week and as we kind of peel the next week and as we kind of peel the onion and give you more of that onion and give you more of that onion and give you more of that information. Which would you prefer, information. Which would you prefer, information. Which would you prefer, Leonard? Do you want would you like the Leonard? Do you want would you like the Leonard? Do you want would you like the Matrix be plugged into the Matrix or the Matrix be plugged into the Matrix or the Matrix be plugged into the Matrix or the Logan's Run thing knowing that you're Logan's Run thing knowing that you're Logan's Run thing knowing that you're probably not going to get renewed at age probably not going to get renewed at age probably not going to get renewed at age 30? You know, 30? You know, 30? You know, >> I think there's a third one. Oh, okay.

>> I think there's a third one. Oh, okay. >> I think there's a third one. Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Idiocracy. >> Yeah. Idiocracy. >> Yeah. Idiocracy. >> Idiocracy. That's true. >> Idiocracy. That's true. >> Idiocracy. That's true. >> I don't know if it's on one end one end >> I don't know if it's on one end one end >> I don't know if it's on one end one end or the other, but idiocracy is or the other, but idiocracy is or the other, but idiocracy is >> it's a valid outcome. And like we've >> it's a valid outcome. And like we've >> it's a valid outcome. And like we've talked about too, if if if if talked about too, if if if if talked about too, if if if if we if the unemployment thing happens and we if the unemployment thing happens and we if the unemployment thing happens and people are laid off because of AI, which people are laid off because of AI, which people are laid off because of AI, which may or may not be a thing, but if it is, may or may not be a thing, but if it is, may or may not be a thing, but if it is, we we'll hit a threshold where enough we we'll hit a threshold where enough we we'll hit a threshold where enough people will be disgruntled and out of people will be disgruntled and out of people will be disgruntled and out of work. Humans behavior changes when work. Humans behavior changes when work. Humans behavior changes when things are really really bad. They don't things are really really bad. They don't things are really really bad. They don't behave like a civilized person anymore behave like a civilized person anymore behave like a civilized person anymore and they'll do things that you will not and they'll do things that you will not and they'll do things that you will not expect. And so there is the possible expect. And so there is the possible expect. And so there is the possible other Mad Max uh outcome where we burn other Mad Max uh outcome where we burn other Mad Max uh outcome where we burn society to the ground, you know. So who society to the ground, you know. So who society to the ground, you know. So who knows? Who knows, you know? knows? Who knows, you know? knows? Who knows, you know? >> Yeah. Or the entire we all go Amish >> Yeah. Or the entire we all go Amish >> Yeah. Or the entire we all go Amish >> or we go Amish. Yeah. Star Galactica >> or we go Amish. Yeah. Star Galactica >> or we go Amish. Yeah. Star Galactica Amish mode. Amish mode. Amish mode. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I like that. I like that. That's true. >> I like that. I like that. That's true. >> I like that. I like that. That's true. That's true. That's true.

That's true. That's true. That's true. That's true. >> We actually make things. >> We actually make things. >> We actually make things. >> We make things. We make things. I really >> We make things. We make things. I really >> We make things. We make things. I really encourage everyone out there to go encourage everyone out there to go encourage everyone out there to go rewatch Logan's rewatch Logan's rewatch Logan's futuristic movie, futuristic movie, futuristic movie, you know, around the same time frame as you know, around the same time frame as you know, around the same time frame as uh Star Wars and Alien. Yeah. uh Star Wars and Alien. Yeah. uh Star Wars and Alien. Yeah. >> Um, interesting possible future cuz I've >> Um, interesting possible future cuz I've >> Um, interesting possible future cuz I've heard some people say that we should heard some people say that we should heard some people say that we should have this AI super intelligence run our have this AI super intelligence run our have this AI super intelligence run our countries and run the world because countries and run the world because countries and run the world because humans don't do a good enough job on humans don't do a good enough job on humans don't do a good enough job on their own and that we're warlike and their own and that we're warlike and their own and that we're warlike and we're we've got all these problems and we're we've got all these problems and we're we've got all these problems and so this benevolent AI should so this benevolent AI should so this benevolent AI should and we subservient or do whatever it and we subservient or do whatever it and we subservient or do whatever it does and it controls everything which is does and it controls everything which is does and it controls everything which is kind of you know we've seen dystopian kind of you know we've seen dystopian kind of you know we've seen dystopian movies where that's been the case. Um, movies where that's been the case. Um, movies where that's been the case. Um, so who knows? Who knows? Maybe. so who knows? Who knows? Maybe. so who knows? Who knows? Maybe. >> All I know. All I know is Rob needs fi >> All I know. All I know is Rob needs fi >> All I know. All I know is Rob needs fi better 5G. better 5G. better 5G. >> Yeah. Yes, I am tethered to my my >> Yeah. Yes, I am tethered to my my >> Yeah. Yes, I am tethered to my my smartphone and it's kind of crappy. I smartphone and it's kind of crappy. I smartphone and it's kind of crappy. I don't have really good signal here. I I don't have really good signal here. I I don't have really good signal here. I I need to go see where the nearest cell need to go see where the nearest cell need to go see where the nearest cell tower is, right? Um, tower is, right? Um, tower is, right? Um, >> and then I need to check on that back >> and then I need to check on that back >> and then I need to check on that back haul network.

haul network. haul network. >> Yes. Yes. Tele, guys. >> Yes. Yes. Tele, guys. >> Yes. Yes. Tele, guys. >> All right, bro. I will see you soon in >> All right, bro. I will see you soon in >> All right, bro. I will see you soon in Las Vegas. Las Vegas. Las Vegas. >> See you. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> See you. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> See you. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> Yeah, happy Thanksgiving. Woohoo. I'm >> Yeah, happy Thanksgiving. Woohoo. I'm >> Yeah, happy Thanksgiving. Woohoo. I'm stuffed.