IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 194 - When Old Tech Becomes New (Because it works)

[Music] [Music] yay that was just as I yay that was just as I yay that was just as I expected very rough little wake up rough expected very rough little wake up rough expected very rough little wake up rough D there D there D there well you know what they don't call it well you know what they don't call it well you know what they don't call it Bad karaoke for nothing right there you Bad karaoke for nothing right there you Bad karaoke for nothing right there you go H by the way I have covid so I have go H by the way I have covid so I have go H by the way I have covid so I have an excuse for playing like crap oh an excuse for playing like crap oh an excuse for playing like crap oh really you do yeah I do that's why I was really you do yeah I do that's why I was really you do yeah I do that's why I was wearing a mask so everybody we apologize wearing a mask so everybody we apologize wearing a mask so everybody we apologize we actually did a recording on a regular we actually did a recording on a regular we actually did a recording on a regular time and I forgot to press the record time and I forgot to press the record time and I forgot to press the record button and we had a wonderful button and we had a wonderful button and we had a wonderful episode episode episode and we lost it lost it I thought it was and we lost it lost it I thought it was and we lost it lost it I thought it was amazing actually I thought it was I know amazing actually I thought it was I know amazing actually I thought it was I know and it was great having you back Andrea and it was great having you back Andrea and it was great having you back Andrea by the way welcome back we miss you so by the way welcome back we miss you so by the way welcome back we miss you so much thank you for contributing to our much thank you for contributing to our much thank you for contributing to our inclusiveness because it's been a dude inclusiveness because it's been a dude inclusiveness because it's been a dude Fest for months oh jeez you know we're Fest for months oh jeez you know we're Fest for months oh jeez you know we're just afraid that you know people are just afraid that you know people are just afraid that you know people are going to start to condemn us for not you going to start to condemn us for not you going to start to condemn us for not you know uh being inclusive and is Bing know uh being inclusive and is Bing know uh being inclusive and is Bing diversity which we do right I mean we're diversity which we do right I mean we're diversity which we do right I mean we're open every we we have an open door open every we we have an open door open every we we have an open door policy right oh hey you do oh yeah no policy right oh hey you do oh yeah no policy right oh hey you do oh yeah no absolutely I I spent a lot of time in absolutely I I spent a lot of time in absolutely I I spent a lot of time in Europe last year a lot of time and the Europe last year a lot of time and the Europe last year a lot of time and the time difference in in Romania eight time difference in in Romania eight time difference in in Romania eight hours to Dallas 10 hours to you it it's

hours to Dallas 10 hours to you it it's hours to Dallas 10 hours to you it it's been very difficult you in the past I been very difficult you in the past I been very difficult you in the past I was able to attend some of the sessions was able to attend some of the sessions was able to attend some of the sessions but last year I couldn't yeah it was but last year I couldn't yeah it was but last year I couldn't yeah it was evening time and my mom was in a evening time and my mom was in a evening time and my mom was in a hospital a lot so I had to be at the hospital a lot so I had to be at the hospital a lot so I had to be at the hospital so it was just didn't work out hospital so it was just didn't work out hospital so it was just didn't work out yeah and we missed you we missed you and yeah and we missed you we missed you and yeah and we missed you we missed you and yeah I missed you too like every week I yeah I missed you too like every week I yeah I missed you too like every week I check out what happened I look and see check out what happened I look and see check out what happened I look and see what happened I was like oh my God what what happened I was like oh my God what what happened I was like oh my God what are these what are these Jokers doing um are these what are these Jokers doing um are these what are these Jokers doing um so hey everyone before we start remember so hey everyone before we start remember so hey everyone before we start remember we have a charity is called Elevate our we have a charity is called Elevate our we have a charity is called Elevate our kids at www. elevat our kids.org and the kids at www. elevat our kids.org and the kids at www. elevat our kids.org and the purpose of this charity is to help to purpose of this charity is to help to purpose of this charity is to help to bridge the digital Equity divide for bridge the digital Equity divide for bridge the digital Equity divide for kids K through 12 It's a Wonderful kids K through 12 It's a Wonderful kids K through 12 It's a Wonderful charity we hope that you'll go and visit charity we hope that you'll go and visit charity we hope that you'll go and visit the site again it's the site again it's the site again it's www. um elevator kids.org and you can www. um elevator kids.org and you can www. um elevator kids.org and you can make a donation all right and it really make a donation all right and it really make a donation all right and it really easy those form and everything and if easy those form and everything and if easy those form and everything and if you're not into charity but you're into you're not into charity but you're into you're not into charity but you're into fashion fashion fashion you can order one of these things and you can order one of these things and you can order one of these things and you know what you will be you will be you know what you will be you will be you know what you will be you will be the center of attention at your local the center of attention at your local the center of attention at your local Costco because my entire family has Costco because my entire family has Costco because my entire family has these hoodies right these iot beautiful these hoodies right these iot beautiful these hoodies right these iot beautiful iot Coffee Talk hoodies and we get so iot Coffee Talk hoodies and we get so iot Coffee Talk hoodies and we get so many many many compliments like oh my gosh you guys compliments like oh my gosh you guys compliments like oh my gosh you guys look so cute where do you get that it it

look so cute where do you get that it it look so cute where do you get that it it is nice I have a blue one in the house is nice I have a blue one in the house is nice I have a blue one in the house that I I for my nephew in Mania yeah and that I I for my nephew in Mania yeah and that I I for my nephew in Mania yeah and I able to get it to him and I debated I able to get it to him and I debated I able to get it to him and I debated whether I should wear it today but just whether I should wear it today but just whether I should wear it today but just blue is not my color so I said no blue I blue is not my color so I said no blue I blue is not my color so I said no blue I don't believe that I just don't believe don't believe that I just don't believe don't believe that I just don't believe that but okay I think blue is your color that but okay I think blue is your color that but okay I think blue is your color you're pretty close to Blue right you're pretty close to Blue right you're pretty close to Blue right now quality or oh it's what this is gray now quality or oh it's what this is gray now quality or oh it's what this is gray it's a gray sweater I don't know the it's a gray sweater I don't know the it's a gray sweater I don't know the video looks I know one of those internet video looks I know one of those internet video looks I know one of those internet memes is it gray or is it blue you know memes is it gray or is it blue you know memes is it gray or is it blue you know yeah I was yeah that's it that's the one yeah I was yeah that's it that's the one yeah I was yeah that's it that's the one yeah yeah but I like um Pete's the red yeah yeah but I like um Pete's the red yeah yeah but I like um Pete's the red one is awesome I got it from my son yeah one is awesome I got it from my son yeah one is awesome I got it from my son yeah I like the red I like the I like the red I like the I like the red I like the red yeah yeah but elevat our kids is not red yeah yeah but elevat our kids is not red yeah yeah but elevat our kids is not only operating in Texas correct no only operating in Texas correct no only operating in Texas correct no no um no when I first met you guys I I no um no when I first met you guys I I no um no when I first met you guys I I thought that because Stephanie is based thought that because Stephanie is based thought that because Stephanie is based in Texas but then I learned that it it's in Texas but then I learned that it it's in Texas but then I learned that it it's does not so yeah yeah yeah so anybody does not so yeah yeah yeah so anybody does not so yeah yeah yeah so anybody who's iot Coffee Talk listener I mean who's iot Coffee Talk listener I mean who's iot Coffee Talk listener I mean please you know uh donate because you please you know uh donate because you please you know uh donate because you know uh just because the pandemic is know uh just because the pandemic is know uh just because the pandemic is over doesn't mean that we've bridged a over doesn't mean that we've bridged a over doesn't mean that we've bridged a digital Equity divide it's still out digital Equity divide it's still out digital Equity divide it's still out there you know well it's more important there you know well it's more important there you know well it's more important than ever that kids have Tech to learn than ever that kids have Tech to learn than ever that kids have Tech to learn unfortunately that's kind of what they unfortunately that's kind of what they unfortunately that's kind of what they have to have so have to have so have to have so unfortunately you unfortunately you unfortunately you know on Tech and education these days know on Tech and education these days know on Tech and education these days it's uh yeah got to so yeah I mean this

it's uh yeah got to so yeah I mean this it's uh yeah got to so yeah I mean this that was our second Lost episode isn't that was our second Lost episode isn't that was our second Lost episode isn't that pathetic you know we had a lost that pathetic you know we had a lost that pathetic you know we had a lost episode before and this this was our episode before and this this was our episode before and this this was our second and you know we're pretty good second and you know we're pretty good second and you know we're pretty good you know this is a episode you know this is a episode you know this is a episode 195 guys gosh awesome yeah and we're 195 guys gosh awesome yeah and we're 195 guys gosh awesome yeah and we're still going strong regardless of whether still going strong regardless of whether still going strong regardless of whether people listen to us or not you know well people listen to us or not you know well people listen to us or not you know well it was never a short of things to talk it was never a short of things to talk it was never a short of things to talk about in the is we we enjoy our scks about in the is we we enjoy our scks about in the is we we enjoy our scks right yeah we have fun and you know did right yeah we have fun and you know did right yeah we have fun and you know did anybody take notes as to what we talked anybody take notes as to what we talked anybody take notes as to what we talked about yesterday so we can repeat it no about yesterday so we can repeat it no about yesterday so we can repeat it no we talked about we talked about we talked about RFID a lot RFID and I context yes RFID a lot RFID and I context yes RFID a lot RFID and I context yes hopefully uh David David Vasquez jumps hopefully uh David David Vasquez jumps hopefully uh David David Vasquez jumps on because he was like I think like this on because he was like I think like this on because he was like I think like this ambient Computing thing I mean hopefully ambient Computing thing I mean hopefully ambient Computing thing I mean hopefully David does join us but like I did spend David does join us but like I did spend David does join us but like I did spend some time with Steve Statler from Will some time with Steve Statler from Will some time with Steve Statler from Will iot on my show and learned a lot about iot on my show and learned a lot about iot on my show and learned a lot about the you know RFID which gets charged the you know RFID which gets charged the you know RFID which gets charged when you scan it versus some of the when you scan it versus some of the when you scan it versus some of the other Tech that's out there that you other Tech that's out there that you other Tech that's out there that you know is charged by like kind of random know is charged by like kind of random know is charged by like kind of random Bluetooth energy which is everywhere now Bluetooth energy which is everywhere now Bluetooth energy which is everywhere now and so we're seeing this stuff evolve to and so we're seeing this stuff evolve to and so we're seeing this stuff evolve to become even more you know sort of uh become even more you know sort of uh become even more you know sort of uh ambient and um you know capable without ambient and um you know capable without ambient and um you know capable without actively having to read the tag so so actively having to read the tag so so actively having to read the tag so so you can actually now start to sort of you can actually now start to sort of you can actually now start to sort of gather data on objects you know um sort gather data on objects you know um sort gather data on objects you know um sort of just ambient right in the where

of just ambient right in the where of just ambient right in the where Warehouse or in the retail store without Warehouse or in the retail store without Warehouse or in the retail store without actually breaking out the scanner uh so actually breaking out the scanner uh so actually breaking out the scanner uh so that's pretty cool and I think uh you that's pretty cool and I think uh you that's pretty cool and I think uh you know obviously it's huge for retail and know obviously it's huge for retail and know obviously it's huge for retail and supply chain and things like that and uh supply chain and things like that and uh supply chain and things like that and uh I think it'll start to become ubiquitous I think it'll start to become ubiquitous I think it'll start to become ubiquitous and uh whether it's shipping labels or and uh whether it's shipping labels or and uh whether it's shipping labels or you know on boxes or built into you know on boxes or built into you know on boxes or built into packaging someone will figure out how to packaging someone will figure out how to packaging someone will figure out how to do it at such a low cost it'll be kind do it at such a low cost it'll be kind do it at such a low cost it'll be kind of a no-brainer of a no-brainer of a no-brainer so some of the shipping labels that so some of the shipping labels that so some of the shipping labels that you're talking about I mean now they you you're talking about I mean now they you you're talking about I mean now they you know not only they have RFID but now know not only they have RFID but now know not only they have RFID but now they have cell on those on some of those they have cell on those on some of those they have cell on those on some of those shipping labels that are yeah a little shipping labels that are yeah a little shipping labels that are yeah a little bit of uh well there's a little bit of a bit of uh well there's a little bit of a bit of uh well there's a little bit of a radio in there and that's the the trick radio in there and that's the the trick radio in there and that's the the trick is like how do you get the data off the is like how do you get the data off the is like how do you get the data off the label to something new working group label to something new working group label to something new working group item in I think release 18 is ambient item in I think release 18 is ambient item in I think release 18 is ambient iot for 5G and like it's funny nobody iot for 5G and like it's funny nobody iot for 5G and like it's funny nobody talks about 5G anymore and it's weird um talks about 5G anymore and it's weird um talks about 5G anymore and it's weird um the technology is stacking up H it's the technology is stacking up H it's the technology is stacking up H it's just people haven't made that transition just people haven't made that transition just people haven't made that transition toward standalone now you know toward standalone now you know toward standalone now you know Standalone networks and cores and and so Standalone networks and cores and and so Standalone networks and cores and and so you know uh once they pull that trigger you know uh once they pull that trigger you know uh once they pull that trigger there's going to be a whole huge set of there's going to be a whole huge set of there's going to be a whole huge set of features that are going to become features that are going to become features that are going to become available you know and that's one of one available you know and that's one of one available you know and that's one of one of them that's sitting in the hopper of them that's sitting in the hopper of them that's sitting in the hopper right now you know yeah uh and um you right now you know yeah uh and um you right now you know yeah uh and um you know it's a lot of possibilities I I know it's a lot of possibilities I I know it's a lot of possibilities I I think you know the tragic thing is that think you know the tragic thing is that think you know the tragic thing is that people have just been so exhausted with people have just been so exhausted with people have just been so exhausted with all these misguided um you know Silly

all these misguided um you know Silly all these misguided um you know Silly Notions about what 5G will Notions about what 5G will Notions about what 5G will do um that now um we could you know be do um that now um we could you know be do um that now um we could you know be over overshooting on the skepticism you over overshooting on the skepticism you over overshooting on the skepticism you know what I'm saying but it'll be a nice know what I'm saying but it'll be a nice know what I'm saying but it'll be a nice surprise right when you know people pull surprise right when you know people pull surprise right when you know people pull the trigger on this thing and then all the trigger on this thing and then all the trigger on this thing and then all they all of a sudden they realize wow they all of a sudden they realize wow they all of a sudden they realize wow there are all these industrial use cases there are all these industrial use cases there are all these industrial use cases that we can uh support but it might that we can uh support but it might that we can uh support but it might maybe not along the lines of what people maybe not along the lines of what people maybe not along the lines of what people um were originally hyping right probably um were originally hyping right probably um were originally hyping right probably a lot less glamorous than the initial a lot less glamorous than the initial a lot less glamorous than the initial really stupid a lot more practical really stupid a lot more practical really stupid a lot more practical highly highly highly valuable but yeah you know speaking of valuable but yeah you know speaking of valuable but yeah you know speaking of surprises the big surprise for me is you surprises the big surprise for me is you surprises the big surprise for me is you know I come from Telecom but I no longer know I come from Telecom but I no longer know I come from Telecom but I no longer work in Telecom and three years ago so work in Telecom and three years ago so work in Telecom and three years ago so between April and the end of the year um between April and the end of the year um between April and the end of the year um my team where I worked we sold um my team where I worked we sold um my team where I worked we sold um Standalone core to two two provider two Standalone core to two two provider two Standalone core to two two provider two large providers in Canada and just now I large providers in Canada and just now I large providers in Canada and just now I saw in the news that were launching it saw in the news that were launching it saw in the news that were launching it so two and a half three years later yeah so two and a half three years later yeah so two and a half three years later yeah takes a long time but so H cycle is takes a long time but so H cycle is takes a long time but so H cycle is always the you know the overestimation always the you know the overestimation always the you know the overestimation in the short run and the underestimation in the short run and the underestimation in the short run and the underestimation in the long run exactly I mean to me in the long run exactly I mean to me in the long run exactly I mean to me that's Clear Proof because when when that's Clear Proof because when when that's Clear Proof because when when when we when we sold it when when I was when we when we sold it when when I was when we when we sold it when when I was there selling it um it was working very there selling it um it was working very there selling it um it was working very well in in my employer's Labs it this we

well in in my employer's Labs it this we well in in my employer's Labs it this we didn't sell uh paperware and slide wear didn't sell uh paperware and slide wear didn't sell uh paperware and slide wear there there there's no doubt but to take there there there's no doubt but to take there there there's no doubt but to take it live it was so much more conversome it live it was so much more conversome it live it was so much more conversome yeah oh yeah because we were talking yeah oh yeah because we were talking yeah oh yeah because we were talking about everything Cloud native right this about everything Cloud native right this about everything Cloud native right this everything was Cloud native everything everything was Cloud native everything everything was Cloud native everything involved you know multiple involved you know multiple involved you know multiple vendors not just like okay deliver vendors not just like okay deliver vendors not just like okay deliver Hardware deliver software done tested Hardware deliver software done tested Hardware deliver software done tested done one interface two interfaces done done one interface two interfaces done done one interface two interfaces done so yeah that's that's proof that stuff so yeah that's that's proof that stuff so yeah that's that's proof that stuff takes time it's commercial they call the takes time it's commercial they call the takes time it's commercial they call the commercialization point of product you commercialization point of product you commercialization point of product you know that last 5% of commercialization know that last 5% of commercialization know that last 5% of commercialization takes like the 95% of the time you know takes like the 95% of the time you know takes like the 95% of the time you know it's like I get it to demo I get it to it's like I get it to demo I get it to it's like I get it to demo I get it to we used to do this in Microsoft all the we used to do this in Microsoft all the we used to do this in Microsoft all the time like private preview public time like private preview public time like private preview public preview GA General generally available preview GA General generally available preview GA General generally available doesn't mean necessarily fully doesn't mean necessarily fully doesn't mean necessarily fully commercialized right it just means it's commercialized right it just means it's commercialized right it just means it's a to be commercialized yeah and both you a to be commercialized yeah and both you a to be commercialized yeah and both you know I worked um I worked for ericon so know I worked um I worked for ericon so know I worked um I worked for ericon so it's U I had a lot of trust in ericon it's U I had a lot of trust in ericon it's U I had a lot of trust in ericon great great vendor I know how they did great great vendor I know how they did great great vendor I know how they did things inside um but also the two things inside um but also the two things inside um but also the two customers are very Nimble very smart customers are very Nimble very smart customers are very Nimble very smart yeah um so if this the the vendor that yeah um so if this the the vendor that yeah um so if this the the vendor that xen is and those customers took a long xen is and those customers took a long xen is and those customers took a long time to get it done you know it takes a time to get it done you know it takes a time to get it done you know it takes a long time to get it done right I do yeah long time to get it done right I do yeah long time to get it done right I do yeah well you know it's crazy um was in wuen well you know it's crazy um was in wuen well you know it's crazy um was in wuen back in 2017 and huawe was already

back in 2017 and huawe was already back in 2017 and huawe was already demoing things like um you know Network demoing things like um you know Network demoing things like um you know Network slicing you know it was like a a test slicing you know it was like a a test slicing you know it was like a a test bed that they were demoing right so uh bed that they were demoing right so uh bed that they were demoing right so uh you know and um and so a lot of the 5G you know and um and so a lot of the 5G you know and um and so a lot of the 5G Technologies were pretty well Advanced Technologies were pretty well Advanced Technologies were pretty well Advanced you know I think people don't recognize you know I think people don't recognize you know I think people don't recognize that the standardization process or that the standardization process or that the standardization process or coming up with the tech specs that 3G P coming up with the tech specs that 3G P coming up with the tech specs that 3G P then uh freezes and then it becomes sort then uh freezes and then it becomes sort then uh freezes and then it becomes sort of the global standard that's what takes of the global standard that's what takes of the global standard that's what takes a while right but the Technologies the a while right but the Technologies the a while right but the Technologies the candidate Technologies are are developed candidate Technologies are are developed candidate Technologies are are developed and a and can be demoed and it it it's and a and can be demoed and it it it's and a and can be demoed and it it it's pretty pretty pretty amazing uh but yeah exactly to the point amazing uh but yeah exactly to the point amazing uh but yeah exactly to the point you're making um you're making um you're making um Andrea so many people Andrea so many people Andrea so many people discount what it takes to implement discount what it takes to implement discount what it takes to implement technology and that's where I think the technology and that's where I think the technology and that's where I think the folks who are the Casual futurists who folks who are the Casual futurists who folks who are the Casual futurists who have no real grounding in have no real grounding in have no real grounding in technology um they just read headlines technology um they just read headlines technology um they just read headlines and press releases and think that they and press releases and think that they and press releases and think that they actually know technology and the actually know technology and the actually know technology and the Dynamics of actually U extracting value Dynamics of actually U extracting value Dynamics of actually U extracting value out of it through implementation they they create a lot of implementation they they create a lot of the damage that we've seen in the last the damage that we've seen in the last the damage that we've seen in the last four years with 5G and it's been I mean four years with 5G and it's been I mean four years with 5G and it's been I mean look at what's happening right now I look at what's happening right now I look at what's happening right now I mean if you want evidence of why hype is

mean if you want evidence of why hype is mean if you want evidence of why hype is bad just look at what's happening right bad just look at what's happening right bad just look at what's happening right now yeah and you know that's what we now yeah and you know that's what we now yeah and you know that's what we always that's why hype doesn't survive always that's why hype doesn't survive always that's why hype doesn't survive on this show you come on the show just on this show you come on the show just on this show you come on the show just be ready to get railed if you come in be ready to get railed if you come in be ready to get railed if you come in here with a BS message it just doesn't here with a BS message it just doesn't here with a BS message it just doesn't survive and and and this is why we we survive and and and this is why we we survive and and and this is why we we end up calling it through these organic end up calling it through these organic end up calling it through these organic debates time and time again whether it's debates time and time again whether it's debates time and time again whether it's crypto or it's uh you know metaverse crypto or it's uh you know metaverse crypto or it's uh you know metaverse industrial metaverse or whatever and now industrial metaverse or whatever and now industrial metaverse or whatever and now generative generative generative AI um industrial wait to see what AI um industrial wait to see what AI um industrial wait to see what happens with generative happens with generative happens with generative AI you're going to be so disappointed AI you're going to be so disappointed AI you're going to be so disappointed it's it's actually quite frightening um it's it's actually quite frightening um it's it's actually quite frightening um you know post the other day in LinkedIn you know post the other day in LinkedIn you know post the other day in LinkedIn about um gen impact of generative and on about um gen impact of generative and on about um gen impact of generative and on productivity productivity productivity and that it's not the what it was and that it's not the what it was and that it's not the what it was expected to be I'm like expected by who expected to be I'm like expected by who expected to be I'm like expected by who haven't even started yet I mean you know haven't even started yet I mean you know haven't even started yet I mean you know results are in generative AI is no good results are in generative AI is no good results are in generative AI is no good it's like what just getting started no it's like what just getting started no it's like what just getting started no what are you what are you talking about what are you what are you talking about what are you what are you talking about man everyone like think we mentioned it man everyone like think we mentioned it man everyone like think we mentioned it a couple of episodes ago everyone's a couple of episodes ago everyone's a couple of episodes ago everyone's going around talking about that BCG uh going around talking about that BCG uh going around talking about that BCG uh report so all these guys who are you report so all these guys who are you report so all these guys who are you know talking selling like prompt know talking selling like prompt know talking selling like prompt engineering courses you know and engineering courses you know and engineering courses you know and AI in your Enterprise which is science AI in your Enterprise which is science AI in your Enterprise which is science engineering Pudo SEO guy you know turned

engineering Pudo SEO guy you know turned engineering Pudo SEO guy you know turned all of a sudden AI expert going around all of a sudden AI expert going around all of a sudden AI expert going around with this deck saying hey look you know with this deck saying hey look you know with this deck saying hey look you know uh at uh at uh at BCG um the quality the quality of their BCG um the quality the quality of their BCG um the quality the quality of their work improved by XYZ but if you actually work improved by XYZ but if you actually work improved by XYZ but if you actually read the study there's there's no read the study there's there's no read the study there's there's no substantiation of that claim in fact substantiation of that claim in fact substantiation of that claim in fact yeah you start to get the hint that this yeah you start to get the hint that this yeah you start to get the hint that this was a very poorly done study yeah and was a very poorly done study yeah and was a very poorly done study yeah and that's what they're that that is what uh that's what they're that that is what uh that's what they're that that is what uh was published a while back before even was published a while back before even was published a while back before even people really knew what the capabilities people really knew what the capabilities people really knew what the capabilities of generative AI applications of generative AI applications of generative AI applications were uh and people were you know there were uh and people were you know there were uh and people were you know there were Enterprises still poing it and not were Enterprises still poing it and not were Enterprises still poing it and not releasing anything into their releasing anything into their releasing anything into their organizations because you know they organizations because you know they organizations because you know they problematic you problematic you problematic you know know know and yeah no I think people are grasping and yeah no I think people are grasping and yeah no I think people are grasping for data points to validate their you for data points to validate their you for data points to validate their you know bias a little bit and um you know know bias a little bit and um you know know bias a little bit and um you know but so you have to Discount you have to but so you have to Discount you have to but so you have to Discount you have to calibrate that and try to cut through calibrate that and try to cut through calibrate that and try to cut through that and try to find what's what's that and try to find what's what's that and try to find what's what's meaningful for for folks I saw babo meaningful for for folks I saw babo meaningful for for folks I saw babo Donald had an interesting um newsletter Donald had an interesting um newsletter Donald had an interesting um newsletter post today on the effective generative post today on the effective generative post today on the effective generative AI on devices which I thought was good I AI on devices which I thought was good I AI on devices which I thought was good I think he took a pretty balanced Approach think he took a pretty balanced Approach think he took a pretty balanced Approach at it like you know what does it really at it like you know what does it really at it like you know what does it really mean for you know you had to roll out mean for you know you had to roll out mean for you know you had to roll out with Samsung and some of the scenarios with Samsung and some of the scenarios with Samsung and some of the scenarios and some of the things like what really and some of the things like what really and some of the things like what really makes sense like for on device AI versus makes sense like for on device AI versus makes sense like for on device AI versus cloud-based Ai and right and I think cloud-based Ai and right and I think cloud-based Ai and right and I think that's going to be a debate that's just

that's going to be a debate that's just that's going to be a debate that's just going to happen and and at the end of going to happen and and at the end of going to happen and and at the end of the day it has to be scenarios that the day it has to be scenarios that the day it has to be scenarios that people want to use over and over again people want to use over and over again people want to use over and over again and not just demo and show once but and not just demo and show once but and not just demo and show once but actually the engagement of these actually the engagement of these actually the engagement of these scenarios and capabilities will be the scenarios and capabilities will be the scenarios and capabilities will be the proof point that people are actually proof point that people are actually proof point that people are actually using them and getting value from them using them and getting value from them using them and getting value from them and it's going to take some time to and it's going to take some time to and it's going to take some time to shake all that out so but let's get shake all that out so but let's get shake all that out so but let's get let's give credit to ourselves we've let's give credit to ourselves we've let's give credit to ourselves we've been talking about that for a year been talking about that for a year been talking about that for a year yes of course we've been completely dead yes of course we've been completely dead yes of course we've been completely dead on not not news for us you know P you on not not news for us you know P you on not not news for us you know P you bring up a great point about putting it bring up a great point about putting it bring up a great point about putting it onto the device you know versus the onto the device you know versus the onto the device you know versus the cloud you know and and there hasn't been cloud you know and and there hasn't been cloud you know and and there hasn't been a lot of um supporting documentation as a lot of um supporting documentation as a lot of um supporting documentation as to exactly what H how that happens and to exactly what H how that happens and to exactly what H how that happens and what it is you know what what it's going what it is you know what what it's going what it is you know what what it's going to entail because right and so it's I to entail because right and so it's I to entail because right and so it's I can I could see it on the device but God can I could see it on the device but God can I could see it on the device but God you know the pressure on not putting you know the pressure on not putting you know the pressure on not putting more stuff on devices sure it's going to more stuff on devices sure it's going to more stuff on devices sure it's going to be a it's a tradeoff of you know and be a it's a tradeoff of you know and be a it's a tradeoff of you know and you've got what the everyone talks about you've got what the everyone talks about you've got what the everyone talks about llms but slms you know small language llms but slms you know small language llms but slms you know small language models right Microsoft fee and uh you models right Microsoft fee and uh you models right Microsoft fee and uh you know Google Gemini versions and uh llama know Google Gemini versions and uh llama know Google Gemini versions and uh llama 2 and stuff so there'll be stuff on 2 and stuff so there'll be stuff on 2 and stuff so there'll be stuff on there the question is really what's the there the question is really what's the there the question is really what's the use case where you need it and there are use case where you need it and there are use case where you need it and there are there are situations especially in there are situations especially in there are situations especially in industrial environments where need industrial environments where need industrial environments where need things that are occasionally connected things that are occasionally connected things that are occasionally connected or air gap and that's totally rational or air gap and that's totally rational or air gap and that's totally rational right you know on your on your PC and right you know on your on your PC and right you know on your on your PC and phone you know I think you can probably phone you know I think you can probably phone you know I think you can probably squint and maybe find some things but squint and maybe find some things but squint and maybe find some things but again we'll time will tell to see what

again we'll time will tell to see what again we'll time will tell to see what scenarios really stick um yeah but scenarios really stick um yeah but scenarios really stick um yeah but here's the problem people keep thinking here's the problem people keep thinking here's the problem people keep thinking in terms of llms and slms but actually in terms of llms and slms but actually in terms of llms and slms but actually there's some smart people uh few of them there's some smart people uh few of them there's some smart people uh few of them that I spoke to at uh sensor converge that I spoke to at uh sensor converge that I spoke to at uh sensor converge last year who are who are just looking last year who are who are just looking last year who are who are just looking at at at Transformers right mhm you know what you Transformers right mhm you know what you Transformers right mhm you know what you that's the foundational technology that's the foundational technology that's the foundational technology that's that big aha that happened and that's that big aha that happened and that's that big aha that happened and then above that they created an then above that they created an then above that they created an application that is basically you know a application that is basically you know a application that is basically you know a large language model right it's and you large language model right it's and you large language model right it's and you know you see all these variations but know you see all these variations but know you see all these variations but the foundational technology is the the foundational technology is the the foundational technology is the Transformer right uh and um and this is Transformer right uh and um and this is Transformer right uh and um and this is why it's so important to know the why it's so important to know the why it's so important to know the difference between technology and difference between technology and difference between technology and application which people screw up all application which people screw up all application which people screw up all the time and get the time and get the time and get confused there are there are these confused there are there are these confused there are there are these really brilliant Engineers okay that really brilliant Engineers okay that really brilliant Engineers okay that don't embibe the hype looking at okay don't embibe the hype looking at okay don't embibe the hype looking at okay how does this fundamentally change how how does this fundamentally change how how does this fundamentally change how we can do um you enhance our ml we can do um you enhance our ml we can do um you enhance our ml capabilities for enhancing sensors some capabilities for enhancing sensors some capabilities for enhancing sensors some very very narrow things but leveraging very very narrow things but leveraging very very narrow things but leveraging that to be able to process uh you know that to be able to process uh you know that to be able to process uh you know build models that are more capable build models that are more capable build models that are more capable they're not and based on my they're not and based on my they're not and based on my conversations that I had with these conversations that I had with these conversations that I had with these Engineers is it's not an order of Engineers is it's not an order of Engineers is it's not an order of magnitude Improvement it it it provides

magnitude Improvement it it it provides magnitude Improvement it it it provides a let's say a step change but also a let's say a step change but also a let's say a step change but also additional complexity that has to be additional complexity that has to be additional complexity that has to be managed because um you know it's just managed because um you know it's just managed because um you know it's just not reliable and so as if you go and you not reliable and so as if you go and you not reliable and so as if you go and you talk to the guys who are building smart talk to the guys who are building smart talk to the guys who are building smart sensors they will tell you um most of sensors they will tell you um most of sensors they will tell you um most of the customers go for the St the the customers go for the St the the customers go for the St the relatively stupid stuff right this what relatively stupid stuff right this what relatively stupid stuff right this what we used to call algorithms they don't go we used to call algorithms they don't go we used to call algorithms they don't go for these more for these more for these more Dynamic Solutions well because they're Dynamic Solutions well because they're Dynamic Solutions well because they're just not just not just not reliable it's Overkill reliable it's Overkill reliable it's Overkill no it's not it's never Overkill if it's no it's not it's never Overkill if it's no it's not it's never Overkill if it's reliable if they can get nine you know reliable if they can get nine you know reliable if they can get nine you know 69 right 69 right 69 right reliability like they don't want to get reliability like they don't want to get reliability like they don't want to get a a bunch of false positives that a a bunch of false positives that a a bunch of false positives that there's something wrong and like nine there's something wrong and like nine there's something wrong and like nine times out of 10 or whatever the number times out of 10 or whatever the number times out of 10 or whatever the number it turns out it's not so I think the it turns out it's not so I think the it turns out it's not so I think the reliability VAR models you know what I'm reliability VAR models you know what I'm reliability VAR models you know what I'm saying crazy stuff you know right it saying crazy stuff you know right it saying crazy stuff you know right it just doesn't work because it introduces just doesn't work because it introduces just doesn't work because it introduces so many um errors into the function that so many um errors into the function that so many um errors into the function that is better to have something that's very is better to have something that's very is better to have something that's very narrowly trained and just work with true narrowly trained and just work with true narrowly trained and just work with true basic I think narrowly trained and also basic I think narrowly trained and also basic I think narrowly trained and also I think you know there's like the I think you know there's like the I think you know there's like the isolation Forest these other types of isolation Forest these other types of isolation Forest these other types of anomaly detection models now can be run anomaly detection models now can be run anomaly detection models now can be run at very low power with some of the newer at very low power with some of the newer at very low power with some of the newer chips that are out there so I think we chips that are out there so I think we chips that are out there so I think we will and then they'll you know and the will and then they'll you know and the will and then they'll you know and the the training of that and the updating of

the training of that and the updating of the training of that and the updating of that model all that stuff needs to work that model all that stuff needs to work that model all that stuff needs to work for people that to really kind of bet on for people that to really kind of bet on for people that to really kind of bet on that in their deployment and and we're that in their deployment and and we're that in their deployment and and we're getting there and and I I've worked with getting there and and I I've worked with getting there and and I I've worked with semiconductor companies that tried it semiconductor companies that tried it semiconductor companies that tried it and they kind of backed off they said and they kind of backed off they said and they kind of backed off they said you know what it's too complicated it's you know what it's too complicated it's you know what it's too complicated it's too complicated to train deploy the too complicated to train deploy the too complicated to train deploy the models and update them and so we're models and update them and so we're models and update them and so we're going to back off on the message until going to back off on the message until going to back off on the message until it gets more mature I think we're it gets more mature I think we're it gets more mature I think we're getting there now with like the ethos getting there now with like the ethos getting there now with like the ethos stuff and some other things but stuff and some other things but stuff and some other things but inevitably the tiny ML and those like inevitably the tiny ML and those like inevitably the tiny ML and those like those types of AI things will become those types of AI things will become those types of AI things will become pretty you know pretty standard uh pretty you know pretty standard uh pretty you know pretty standard uh deployments um but it's going to take deployments um but it's going to take deployments um but it's going to take time and and it requires more you know time and and it requires more you know time and and it requires more you know mlops and more training and more you mlops and more training and more you mlops and more training and more you know updates which typically in those know updates which typically in those know updates which typically in those types of environments like you said types of environments like you said types of environments like you said people say like I just need a sensor I people say like I just need a sensor I people say like I just need a sensor I don't want to update it I don't want don't want to update it I don't want don't want to update it I don't want it's it's out in the field 10 years from it's it's out in the field 10 years from it's it's out in the field 10 years from now it's it's some it's stuck near some now it's it's some it's stuck near some now it's it's some it's stuck near some boiler unit in a dark place and I don't boiler unit in a dark place and I don't boiler unit in a dark place and I don't want to mess with it so it has to get to want to mess with it so it has to get to want to mess with it so it has to get to that level of bulletproof before people that level of bulletproof before people that level of bulletproof before people really bet on it yeah and then and for really bet on it yeah and then and for really bet on it yeah and then and for anything that's networked um there's anything that's networked um there's anything that's networked um there's always you know the issue of always you know the issue of always you know the issue of conflict that's becoming a bigger and conflict that's becoming a bigger and conflict that's becoming a bigger and bigger issue and and when you you listen bigger issue and and when you you listen bigger issue and and when you you listen to people that are thinking of using to people that are thinking of using to people that are thinking of using applying um generative AI or any kind of applying um generative AI or any kind of applying um generative AI or any kind of AI for that matter at a network level AI for that matter at a network level AI for that matter at a network level that that's becoming increasingly a that that's becoming increasingly a that that's becoming increasingly a problem that actually gets more problem that actually gets more problem that actually gets more challenging as you you delegate

challenging as you you delegate challenging as you you delegate intelligence further out toward the edge intelligence further out toward the edge intelligence further out toward the edge right it's like in a Federated way how right it's like in a Federated way how right it's like in a Federated way how do you determine what is true and then do you determine what is true and then do you determine what is true and then at what level do you bound UH at what level do you bound UH at what level do you bound UH responsibilities from a policy level responsibilities from a policy level responsibilities from a policy level right you know it's like how much how right you know it's like how much how right you know it's like how much how much jurisdiction does let's say the Smo much jurisdiction does let's say the Smo much jurisdiction does let's say the Smo have versus like the you know R apps and have versus like the you know R apps and have versus like the you know R apps and the X apps and stuff like that you the X apps and stuff like that you the X apps and stuff like that you know it it just gets like really really know it it just gets like really really know it it just gets like really really freaking weird yeah we'll see anyway freaking weird yeah we'll see anyway freaking weird yeah we'll see anyway yeah we'll see what problems do does it yeah we'll see what problems do does it yeah we'll see what problems do does it solve do it still solve customers solve do it still solve customers solve do it still solve customers problems and it cost well I think you problems and it cost well I think you problems and it cost well I think you know by the way I think predictive know by the way I think predictive know by the way I think predictive maintenance is a is is is going to be maintenance is a is is is going to be maintenance is a is is is going to be hot area it's just and it's always been hot area it's just and it's always been hot area it's just and it's always been a hot area and it's when it is deployed a hot area and it's when it is deployed a hot area and it's when it is deployed properly it's a real game changer and a properly it's a real game changer and a properly it's a real game changer and a moneyer uh it just has to be done with moneyer uh it just has to be done with moneyer uh it just has to be done with confidence and in a bulletproof way that confidence and in a bulletproof way that confidence and in a bulletproof way that you know makes economic sense and uh you you know makes economic sense and uh you you know makes economic sense and uh you know one of the scenarios I had in my uh know one of the scenarios I had in my uh know one of the scenarios I had in my uh Edge note was around the washing machine Edge note was around the washing machine Edge note was around the washing machine that is running you know predictive that is running you know predictive that is running you know predictive maintenance on the current draw and they maintenance on the current draw and they maintenance on the current draw and they can tell that this guy's been can tell that this guy's been can tell that this guy's been overloading his washer too long so it overloading his washer too long so it overloading his washer too long so it sends them a message saying hey I think sends them a message saying hey I think sends them a message saying hey I think your motor is going to die in about 3 your motor is going to die in about 3 your motor is going to die in about 3 months or whatever you know if you if months or whatever you know if you if months or whatever you know if you if you do a service call now you know we'll you do a service call now you know we'll you do a service call now you know we'll give you a big discount on the on the give you a big discount on the on the give you a big discount on the on the deal and so you know and the generative deal and so you know and the generative deal and so you know and the generative AI based agent talks him through the AI based agent talks him through the AI based agent talks him through the scheduling and all that stuff and then scheduling and all that stuff and then scheduling and all that stuff and then he he gets the motor Replaced you know

he he gets the motor Replaced you know he he gets the motor Replaced you know and doesn't have any downtime with his and doesn't have any downtime with his and doesn't have any downtime with his laundry so I think stuff like that's laundry so I think stuff like that's laundry so I think stuff like that's going to work eventually but it just has going to work eventually but it just has going to work eventually but it just has to get going back to that first comment to get going back to that first comment to get going back to that first comment about about about commercialization all the work it takes commercialization all the work it takes commercialization all the work it takes to really make that bulletproof and to really make that bulletproof and to really make that bulletproof and deployed I think these types deployed I think these types deployed I think these types main too yeah yeah no and I think it's I main too yeah yeah no and I think it's I main too yeah yeah no and I think it's I think it's going to happen it's just you think it's going to happen it's just you think it's going to happen it's just you know has to get commercialized and has know has to get commercialized and has know has to get commercialized and has to get mature and bulletproof I I could to get mature and bulletproof I I could to get mature and bulletproof I I could have benefited from that when it came to have benefited from that when it came to have benefited from that when it came to my fridge last year or my fridge last year or my fridge last year or 2022 our our fridge died and and to get 2022 our our fridge died and and to get 2022 our our fridge died and and to get something something something comparable um we had to wait about four comparable um we had to wait about four comparable um we had to wait about four months right oh no way so if you had a months right oh no way so if you had a months right oh no way so if you had a four month you know Head Start to say four month you know Head Start to say four month you know Head Start to say hey your your free is going to die in hey your your free is going to die in hey your your free is going to die in four months exactly I'll give you a four months exactly I'll give you a four months exactly I'll give you a discount if you buy one now and and and discount if you buy one now and and and discount if you buy one now and and and also yeah we we had some maintenance also yeah we we had some maintenance also yeah we we had some maintenance done on it when we saw it kind of uh done on it when we saw it kind of uh done on it when we saw it kind of uh starting to warm up and there was waste starting to warm up and there was waste starting to warm up and there was waste of time that M us was waste of time and of time that M us was waste of time and of time that M us was waste of time and waste of money so right for me that's waste of money so right for me that's waste of money so right for me that's the interesting part when I start the interesting part when I start the interesting part when I start zooming in early on that it's not worth zooming in early on that it's not worth zooming in early on that it's not worth spending this time and money on it right spending this time and money on it right spending this time and money on it right go you signals you had the signals go you signals you had the signals go you signals you had the signals already the fridge was warming up so already the fridge was warming up so already the fridge was warming up so there's no reason why a sensor in there there's no reason why a sensor in there there's no reason why a sensor in there couldn't have said I'm DET like an couldn't have said I'm DET like an couldn't have said I'm DET like an increase in your temperature over the increase in your temperature over the increase in your temperature over the last 30 days you know blah blah blah and last 30 days you know blah blah blah and last 30 days you know blah blah blah and so there's no reason why we can't get to so there's no reason why we can't get to so there's no reason why we can't get to that level I just wish and I wish we

that level I just wish and I wish we that level I just wish and I wish we figured out like an LG or Samsung figured out like an LG or Samsung figured out like an LG or Samsung figures out the aftermarket scenarios figures out the aftermarket scenarios figures out the aftermarket scenarios for that like how like can you imagine for that like how like can you imagine for that like how like can you imagine that kind of Market where you had an that kind of Market where you had an that kind of Market where you had an aftermarket predictive maintenance I aftermarket predictive maintenance I aftermarket predictive maintenance I don't know you know I was just about to don't know you know I was just about to don't know you know I was just about to say something um um so here's a dirty say something um um so here's a dirty say something um um so here's a dirty laundry Dynamic that we can talk about laundry Dynamic that we can talk about laundry Dynamic that we can talk about well it seems like that's the way we're well it seems like that's the way we're well it seems like that's the way we're going thanks laundry is like weird going thanks laundry is like weird going thanks laundry is like weird because you know iot folks I think in because you know iot folks I think in because you know iot folks I think in general think that uh predictive general think that uh predictive general think that uh predictive maintenance has sort of this maintenance has sort of this maintenance has sort of this um um let's say singular or static value um um let's say singular or static value um um let's say singular or static value proposition to the life cycle of a a a proposition to the life cycle of a a a proposition to the life cycle of a a a thing right but I think you know it thing right but I think you know it thing right but I think you know it changes um during the warranty period changes um during the warranty period changes um during the warranty period and when you get out of the warranty and when you get out of the warranty and when you get out of the warranty period right yeah because it's period right yeah because it's period right yeah because it's programmed to break right at that three programmed to break right at that three programmed to break right at that three days later yeah yeah because after they days later yeah yeah because after they days later yeah yeah because after they don't give a crap because when it don't give a crap because when it don't give a crap because when it breaks um you know they charge you so breaks um you know they charge you so breaks um you know they charge you so much for the service and any much for the service and any much for the service and any parts you know they're trying to drive a parts you know they're trying to drive a parts you know they're trying to drive a refresh cycle maybe they need to kick in refresh cycle maybe they need to kick in refresh cycle maybe they need to kick in the predictive maintenance after the the predictive maintenance after the the predictive maintenance after the warranty right yeah so if you really warranty right yeah so if you really warranty right yeah so if you really think about it there is no value think about it there is no value think about it there is no value proposition of predictive maintenance proposition of predictive maintenance proposition of predictive maintenance for the End for the End for the End customer it's useless until after customer it's useless until after customer it's useless until after anything if anything you know it's like

anything if anything you know it's like anything if anything you know it's like you can't trust it because for all you you can't trust it because for all you you can't trust it because for all you know all it's trying to do is tell you know all it's trying to do is tell you know all it's trying to do is tell you you need to spend half of what you paid you need to spend half of what you paid you need to spend half of what you paid for the dishwasher and this has happened for the dishwasher and this has happened for the dishwasher and this has happened to to me actually this to to me actually this to to me actually this week ah I see on an out of warranty week ah I see on an out of warranty week ah I see on an out of warranty dishwasher okay which is why inside I dishwasher okay which is why inside I dishwasher okay which is why inside I Wasing as you were talking about that Wasing as you were talking about that Wasing as you were talking about that Pete you know it's just you know you Pete you know it's just you know you Pete you know it's just you know you don't can't trust you wouldn't be able don't can't trust you wouldn't be able don't can't trust you wouldn't be able to trust it because all you know there's to trust it because all you know there's to trust it because all you know there's conflict of interest it's interesting conflict of interest it's interesting conflict of interest it's interesting you know you bring that up you can't you know you bring that up you can't you know you bring that up you can't trust it but there's I was in some trust it but there's I was in some trust it but there's I was in some podcast or some webinar of predictive podcast or some webinar of predictive podcast or some webinar of predictive maintenance Pete and and they were maintenance Pete and and they were maintenance Pete and and they were saying that the average alarm that comes saying that the average alarm that comes saying that the average alarm that comes to an industrial company about a to an industrial company about a to an industrial company about a predictive maintenance issue ain't fixed predictive maintenance issue ain't fixed predictive maintenance issue ain't fixed when it when it when it comes like it's not that they don't comes like it's not that they don't comes like it's not that they don't believe it it either they're too lazy or believe it it either they're too lazy or believe it it either they're too lazy or it's just like on the list of stuff to it's just like on the list of stuff to it's just like on the list of stuff to do and they don't get to replace that do and they don't get to replace that do and they don't get to replace that motor or replace that b no I'm sure motor or replace that b no I'm sure motor or replace that b no I'm sure there so so you wonder the ROI is there there so so you wonder the ROI is there there so so you wonder the ROI is there to sell this stuff to them in the to sell this stuff to them in the to sell this stuff to them in the beginning but if you don't do anything beginning but if you don't do anything beginning but if you don't do anything yeah of course and also if the if yeah of course and also if the if yeah of course and also if the if there's too many false positives you there's too many false positives you there's too many false positives you start to ignore it you calibrate that H start to ignore it you calibrate that H start to ignore it you calibrate that H it's probably not anything because it it's probably not anything because it it's probably not anything because it wasn't anything last time and then but wasn't anything last time and then but wasn't anything last time and then but one of the dark sides of predictive one of the dark sides of predictive one of the dark sides of predictive maintenance or these connected devices I maintenance or these connected devices I maintenance or these connected devices I think I mentioned this in the in the think I mentioned this in the in the think I mentioned this in the in the Lost episode was the the story about HP

Lost episode was the the story about HP Lost episode was the the story about HP and you know when they detect that and you know when they detect that and you know when they detect that you're using third party inks they'll you're using third party inks they'll you're using third party inks they'll they'll oh yeah right um imagine if se they'll oh yeah right um imagine if se they'll oh yeah right um imagine if se you know you know you know Bosch like bricks my fridge because I Bosch like bricks my fridge because I Bosch like bricks my fridge because I put in the wrong water filter or put in the wrong water filter or put in the wrong water filter or something you know it's crazy so that's something you know it's crazy so that's something you know it's crazy so that's pretty bad so you know there there is a pretty bad so you know there there is a pretty bad so you know there there is a dark side to this but again that's a a dark side to this but again that's a a dark side to this but again that's a a company's decision to sort of tarnish company's decision to sort of tarnish company's decision to sort of tarnish their brand if that's what they want to their brand if that's what they want to their brand if that's what they want to do but hopefully not well yeah I mean do but hopefully not well yeah I mean do but hopefully not well yeah I mean but even and think about it even during but even and think about it even during but even and think about it even during warranty um so the warranty um so the warranty um so the vendor um they uh you know they might vendor um they uh you know they might vendor um they uh you know they might not want those sign because that's you not want those sign because that's you not want those sign because that's you know let's say that know let's say that know let's say that [Music] [Music] [Music] um it's not reliable uh that's cost for um it's not reliable uh that's cost for um it's not reliable uh that's cost for them because yeah they have to they have them because yeah they have to they have them because yeah they have to they have to roll a truck or they have to bring to roll a truck or they have to bring to roll a truck or they have to bring the unit the unit the unit in and so um it's like in and so um it's like in and so um it's like insurance and so whoever whoever thought insurance and so whoever whoever thought insurance and so whoever whoever thought of that connection between and I mean of that connection between and I mean of that connection between and I mean it's all risk management right but the it's all risk management right but the it's all risk management right but the thing is is um that's I think why I you thing is is um that's I think why I you thing is is um that's I think why I you know some of these iot solution concepts know some of these iot solution concepts know some of these iot solution concepts are so difficult to sell yeah you know are so difficult to sell yeah you know are so difficult to sell yeah you know um and why predictive maintenance in of um and why predictive maintenance in of um and why predictive maintenance in of itself I mean we've been we've been itself I mean we've been we've been itself I mean we've been we've been hearing about predictive maintenance for hearing about predictive maintenance for hearing about predictive maintenance for ever it's like I don't think people have ever it's like I don't think people have ever it's like I don't think people have sat back and really thought through the sat back and really thought through the sat back and really thought through the dirty laundry elements to figure out

dirty laundry elements to figure out dirty laundry elements to figure out what a real solution would look like you what a real solution would look like you what a real solution would look like you know what I'm saying no know what I'm saying no know what I'm saying no seriously that is the real solution what seriously that is the real solution what seriously that is the real solution what I mean because they don't know any I mean because they don't know any I mean because they don't know any better but that's the problem they don't better but that's the problem they don't better but that's the problem they don't know any better and they they they're know any better and they they they're know any better and they they they're not making really a great business out not making really a great business out not making really a great business out of of of it is because they haven't really it is because they haven't really it is because they haven't really thought through the solution right right thought through the solution right right thought through the solution right right you're selling you're selling Insurance you're selling you're selling Insurance you're selling you're selling Insurance on a a freaking pet rock is like what it on a a freaking pet rock is like what it on a a freaking pet rock is like what it will to I want a Chia Pet I mean Andrea will to I want a Chia Pet I mean Andrea will to I want a Chia Pet I mean Andrea tell you know tell me I I mean if I'm tell you know tell me I I mean if I'm tell you know tell me I I mean if I'm saying something stupid by all means saying something stupid by all means saying something stupid by all means just I mean we've kind of touched on just I mean we've kind of touched on just I mean we've kind of touched on this before but you know I think we're this before but you know I think we're this before but you know I think we're involving the thinking the thinking the perspective and I don't know if we're perspective and I don't know if we're perspective and I don't know if we're going to piss off our iot buddies here going to piss off our iot buddies here going to piss off our iot buddies here but I mean gez how long have we been you but I mean gez how long have we been you but I mean gez how long have we been you know talking about predictive know talking about predictive know talking about predictive maintenance and how how it's been all maintenance and how how it's been all maintenance and how how it's been all you know always well usually so this is you know always well usually so this is you know always well usually so this is another thing that suffers from hype another thing that suffers from hype another thing that suffers from hype Cycles right you get all excited about Cycles right you get all excited about Cycles right you get all excited about it like I said the sil can't quite can't it like I said the sil can't quite can't it like I said the sil can't quite can't run the models you don't really have the run the models you don't really have the run the models you don't really have the ml Ops so it goes out there and like I ml Ops so it goes out there and like I ml Ops so it goes out there and like I said there's a company I worked with said there's a company I worked with said there's a company I worked with very closely they made a big deal about very closely they made a big deal about very closely they made a big deal about it and gunshot detection glass breaking it and gunshot detection glass breaking it and gunshot detection glass breaking sensors whatever and they basically just sensors whatever and they basically just sensors whatever and they basically just said you know what we're just not going said you know what we're just not going said you know what we're just not going to talk about it anymore because it's to talk about it anymore because it's to talk about it anymore because it's too hard our customers can't figure out too hard our customers can't figure out too hard our customers can't figure out how to deploy this thing whatever how to deploy this thing whatever how to deploy this thing whatever doesn't mean it's not going to happen at doesn't mean it's not going to happen at doesn't mean it's not going to happen at some point it will happen someone will some point it will happen someone will some point it will happen someone will figure this out it's an opportunity but

figure this out it's an opportunity but figure this out it's an opportunity but it's something that suffered from I it's something that suffered from I it's something that suffered from I think an initial hype cycle and a think an initial hype cycle and a think an initial hype cycle and a disappointment and it doesn't mean it's disappointment and it doesn't mean it's disappointment and it doesn't mean it's a bad idea it just mean it hasn't been a bad idea it just mean it hasn't been a bad idea it just mean it hasn't been implemented yet is a bad technology implemented yet is a bad technology implemented yet is a bad technology approach it's just people haven't approach it's just people haven't approach it's just people haven't thought through the solution not at all thought through the solution not at all thought through the solution not at all but it's it's but it's it's but it's it's complex was that a cost issue Pete or complex was that a cost issue Pete or complex was that a cost issue Pete or was that a they were saying that their was that a they were saying that their was that a they were saying that their customers tried to to implement this customers tried to to implement this customers tried to to implement this stuff based on the demos you know and it stuff based on the demos you know and it stuff based on the demos you know and it required too much kind of AI ml required too much kind of AI ml required too much kind of AI ml expertise too much uh capabilities of expertise too much uh capabilities of expertise too much uh capabilities of updating the models on these remote updating the models on these remote updating the models on these remote light poles and too much you know just light poles and too much you know just light poles and too much you know just too hard it was too hard and it wasn't too hard it was too hard and it wasn't too hard it was too hard and it wasn't worth it and so they they didn't just worth it and so they they didn't just worth it and so they they didn't just see they didn't see the uptake on that see they didn't see the uptake on that see they didn't see the uptake on that value value value proposition you know it's obviously the proposition you know it's obviously the proposition you know it's obviously the that that was a couple years ago and so that that was a couple years ago and so that that was a couple years ago and so they just said it's not going to be a they just said it's not going to be a they just said it's not going to be a front and center marketing message for front and center marketing message for front and center marketing message for us right now because we know that it's us right now because we know that it's us right now because we know that it's hard to really fulfill that promise um hard to really fulfill that promise um hard to really fulfill that promise um but do you know anybody who's but do you know anybody who's but do you know anybody who's successfully doing that now yes I mean successfully doing that now yes I mean successfully doing that now yes I mean we have 1,700 polls in uh Atlanta with we have 1,700 polls in uh Atlanta with we have 1,700 polls in uh Atlanta with gunshot detectors and glass braks for gunshot detectors and glass braks for gunshot detectors and glass braks for the local neighborhood so if someone's the local neighborhood so if someone's the local neighborhood so if someone's trying smashing the window of a car in trying smashing the window of a car in trying smashing the window of a car in the middle of the night glass break here the middle of the night glass break here the middle of the night glass break here two two two blocks out there but the buyer was blocks out there but the buyer was blocks out there but the buyer was Atlanta police not you so I mean you got Atlanta police not you so I mean you got Atlanta police not you so I mean you got to look at who's utilizing that and then to look at who's utilizing that and then to look at who's utilizing that and then all a sudden they wanted surveillance all a sudden they wanted surveillance all a sudden they wanted surveillance cameras and a little bit more detection cameras and a little bit more detection cameras and a little bit more detection of face anomal you know facial of face anomal you know facial of face anomal you know facial recognition and then you add public recognition and then you add public recognition and then you add public Wi-Fi on top of it and all of a sudden

Wi-Fi on top of it and all of a sudden Wi-Fi on top of it and all of a sudden you know it all works out pretty much you know it all works out pretty much you know it all works out pretty much without having any kind of and that's without having any kind of and that's without having any kind of and that's opportunity for the solution provider to opportunity for the solution provider to opportunity for the solution provider to deploy it properly and you know and you deploy it properly and you know and you deploy it properly and you know and you know that not everyone is like you know know that not everyone is like you know know that not everyone is like you know grade A on that so and then and even and grade A on that so and then and even and grade A on that so and then and even and talking about industrial uh you know talking about industrial uh you know talking about industrial uh you know preventive maintenance uh I was on a preventive maintenance uh I was on a preventive maintenance uh I was on a phone call with a client yesterday and phone call with a client yesterday and phone call with a client yesterday and you know you're talking about some of you know you're talking about some of you know you're talking about some of those large industrial sensors that are those large industrial sensors that are those large industrial sensors that are doing vibration monitoring and doing vibration monitoring and doing vibration monitoring and temperature everything else the temperature everything else the temperature everything else the industrial ones are like $4 industrial ones are like $4 industrial ones are like $4 or500 for an actuator and based in C or500 for an actuator and based in C or500 for an actuator and based in C Center I mean you know people are like Center I mean you know people are like Center I mean you know people are like going oh this little thing is $500 how going oh this little thing is $500 how going oh this little thing is $500 how many do I have to put in my you know and many do I have to put in my you know and many do I have to put in my you know and you know so it goes back to that price you know so it goes back to that price you know so it goes back to that price but you asked me to give you a but you asked me to give you a but you asked me to give you a recommendation of a preventative recommendation of a preventative recommendation of a preventative maintenance iot sensor based program for maintenance iot sensor based program for maintenance iot sensor based program for your your industrial line I mean what do your your industrial line I mean what do your your industrial line I mean what do you want I mean yeah it's an Roi you you want I mean yeah it's an Roi you you want I mean yeah it's an Roi you know I worked with an oil and gas know I worked with an oil and gas know I worked with an oil and gas company once and they had they educated company once and they had they educated company once and they had they educated me about me about me about how they needed to encase the PCB and how they needed to encase the PCB and how they needed to encase the PCB and epoxy uh in their sensor because and it epoxy uh in their sensor because and it epoxy uh in their sensor because and it can't spark so someone steps crushed it can't spark so someone steps crushed it can't spark so someone steps crushed it can't generate a spark so you can't have can't generate a spark so you can't have can't generate a spark so you can't have any metal touching metal because you're any metal touching metal because you're any metal touching metal because you're inside a Refinery or whatever and inside a Refinery or whatever and inside a Refinery or whatever and there's gas so there was a company out there's gas so there was a company out there's gas so there was a company out of Atlanta out of Georgia Tech that was of Atlanta out of Georgia Tech that was of Atlanta out of Georgia Tech that was doing intrinsically safe iot sensors doing intrinsically safe iot sensors doing intrinsically safe iot sensors failed miserably just could not get failed miserably just could not get failed miserably just could not get expensive and the volume wasn't there

expensive and the volume wasn't there expensive and the volume wasn't there yeah well you need to sell into an or a yeah well you need to sell into an or a yeah well you need to sell into an or a Chevron otherwise it doesn't work yeah Chevron otherwise it doesn't work yeah Chevron otherwise it doesn't work yeah well I mean I think we need to we need well I mean I think we need to we need well I mean I think we need to we need to make sure that we recognize the to make sure that we recognize the to make sure that we recognize the anomaly detection is not predictive anomaly detection is not predictive anomaly detection is not predictive maintenance not necessarily totally maintenance not necessarily totally maintenance not necessarily totally agree it's you know anomaly detection agree it's you know anomaly detection agree it's you know anomaly detection could be a capability for a predictive could be a capability for a predictive could be a capability for a predictive maintenance maintenance maintenance solution but you know there's I I forgot solution but you know there's I I forgot solution but you know there's I I forgot the name of the gentleman that um always the name of the gentleman that um always the name of the gentleman that um always talks about um he's going to kill me see talks about um he's going to kill me see talks about um he's going to kill me see this is the problem this is the problem this is the problem this is the problem this is the problem this is the problem with smartphones people you lose your with smartphones people you lose your with smartphones people you lose your memory you forget people I see I thought memory you forget people I see I thought memory you forget people I see I thought you gonna say covid fog you and and you you gonna say covid fog you and and you you gonna say covid fog you and and you know what I I now I forgot what I was know what I I now I forgot what I was know what I I now I forgot what I was gonna say there you go see isn't that gonna say there you go see isn't that gonna say there you go see isn't that amazing um no um amazing um no um amazing um no um causality um and being able to further causality um and being able to further causality um and being able to further qualify whether or not a a signal that qualify whether or not a a signal that qualify whether or not a a signal that you're getting through your anomaly you're getting through your anomaly you're getting through your anomaly detection uh detection uh detection uh is is actually indicative of of a is is actually indicative of of a is is actually indicative of of a problem you know because systems tend to problem you know because systems tend to problem you know because systems tend to be very complex you have noisy you have be very complex you have noisy you have be very complex you have noisy you have calibration issues you have all kinds of calibration issues you have all kinds of calibration issues you have all kinds of things that uh can um generate a false things that uh can um generate a false things that uh can um generate a false positive uh but then you know the the positive uh but then you know the the positive uh but then you know the the effort that it takes for especially in effort that it takes for especially in effort that it takes for especially in the brown field like you're saying uh the brown field like you're saying uh the brown field like you're saying uh Steve to Steve to Steve to codify U that quote unquote know knowled

codify U that quote unquote know knowled codify U that quote unquote know knowled and experience into a system a and experience into a system a and experience into a system a predictive maintenance uh predictive maintenance uh predictive maintenance uh solution is I I think solution is I I think solution is I I think largely largely largely um impossible I'm I'm like I was hesitant impossible I'm I'm like I was hesitant the long pause is because I was I was the long pause is because I was I was the long pause is because I was I was contemplating whether or not I should contemplating whether or not I should contemplating whether or not I should say impossible well I mean it's it's say impossible well I mean it's it's say impossible well I mean it's it's interesting on the after the aftermarket Brownfield world you the aftermarket Brownfield world you know all of a sudden you get into know all of a sudden you get into know all of a sudden you get into discussions of hey do you have a you C discussions of hey do you have a you C discussions of hey do you have a you C port or HDMI port or do you have an port or HDMI port or do you have an port or HDMI port or do you have an extra USB port or something like that in extra USB port or something like that in extra USB port or something like that in order to put something on an existing order to put something on an existing order to put something on an existing product you know because no one wants to product you know because no one wants to product you know because no one wants to open up the kit box and snap it in a open up the kit box and snap it in a open up the kit box and snap it in a daughter board into somewhere that'll daughter board into somewhere that'll daughter board into somewhere that'll give you that so you end up having give you that so you end up having give you that so you end up having stupid conversations about Brownfield stupid conversations about Brownfield stupid conversations about Brownfield aftermarket predictive maintenance stuff aftermarket predictive maintenance stuff aftermarket predictive maintenance stuff it's just really really hard it's just really really hard it's just really really hard yeah I think the other thing we talked yeah I think the other thing we talked yeah I think the other thing we talked about by the way the other day in the about by the way the other day in the about by the way the other day in the Lost episode was the fact that this how Lost episode was the fact that this how Lost episode was the fact that this how the stock market reacted negatively to the stock market reacted negatively to the stock market reacted negatively to all this weather turns out that's all all this weather turns out that's all all this weather turns out that's all been fixed now yeah exactly all got been fixed now yeah exactly all got been fixed now yeah exactly all got fixed in 24 hours so everything's back fixed in 24 hours so everything's back fixed in 24 hours so everything's back up again yeah semi the blood bath on AI up again yeah semi the blood bath on AI up again yeah semi the blood bath on AI on Monday and Tuesday yeah 24-hour thing on Monday and Tuesday yeah 24-hour thing on Monday and Tuesday yeah 24-hour thing 24 on AI

AI what we were talking about it's like you what we were talking about it's like you what we were talking about it's like you know it's like the market reacts to know it's like the market reacts to know it's like the market reacts to earnings reports and then says the AI earnings reports and then says the AI earnings reports and then says the AI world sucks you know it's like oh how do world sucks you know it's like oh how do world sucks you know it's like oh how do you know the next day everyone Buys so you know the next day everyone Buys so you know the next day everyone Buys so right exactly just goes to show it's right exactly just goes to show it's right exactly just goes to show it's early and it's and it's and it's very early and it's and it's and it's very early and it's and it's and it's very bumpy and lumpy and bumpy and lumpy and bumpy and lumpy and uh I also think the valuations of these uh I also think the valuations of these uh I also think the valuations of these things are unknown right how do truly things are unknown right how do truly things are unknown right how do truly how do you put valuations on all this how do you put valuations on all this how do you put valuations on all this you don't and and then um the the you don't and and then um the the you don't and and then um the the analyst models I think are goofy um and analyst models I think are goofy um and analyst models I think are goofy um and you know here's the problem when and we you know here's the problem when and we you know here's the problem when and we mentioned this on the lostep the second mentioned this on the lostep the second mentioned this on the lostep the second Lost episode as well when your valuation Lost episode as well when your valuation Lost episode as well when your valuation models are tainted with massive amounts models are tainted with massive amounts models are tainted with massive amounts of speculation right and then you have of speculation right and then you have of speculation right and then you have analysts who really don't know how to analysts who really don't know how to analysts who really don't know how to kick the tires on a lot of the stuff kick the tires on a lot of the stuff kick the tires on a lot of the stuff that uh these CEOs are saying okay not that uh these CEOs are saying okay not that uh these CEOs are saying okay not asking deep questions I sit on these asking deep questions I sit on these asking deep questions I sit on these calls right I'm sure some of you do as calls right I'm sure some of you do as calls right I'm sure some of you do as well these not good questions they're well these not good questions they're well these not good questions they're not probing it's just like as spelunking not probing it's just like as spelunking not probing it's just like as spelunking most of the time and not thinking most of the time and not thinking most of the time and not thinking through the the whole um through the the whole um through the the whole um mechanism or how a hyped claim mechanism or how a hyped claim mechanism or how a hyped claim translates into actual Tam yeah right translates into actual Tam yeah right translates into actual Tam yeah right like people are making stuff up um and like people are making stuff up um and like people are making stuff up um and so when you you know you see some of the so when you you know you see some of the so when you you know you see some of the actions of what some of the guys are actions of what some of the guys are actions of what some of the guys are doing right now with the AI category cuz

doing right now with the AI category cuz doing right now with the AI category cuz you know we've seen it was Cloud you you know we've seen it was Cloud you you know we've seen it was Cloud you know comparing Google cloud with a know comparing Google cloud with a know comparing Google cloud with a Azure Azure I mean what the hell is Azure Azure I mean what the hell is Azure Azure I mean what the hell is cloud anyway and how do you tell who's cloud anyway and how do you tell who's cloud anyway and how do you tell who's beating who when everyone's portfolio is beating who when everyone's portfolio is beating who when everyone's portfolio is different whether it's Oracle different different whether it's Oracle different different whether it's Oracle different you know different portfolio stuff you know different portfolio stuff you know different portfolio stuff comparing that to Google and where where comparing that to Google and where where comparing that to Google and where where majority of their money comes from ad majority of their money comes from ad majority of their money comes from ad sales it just it it I don't know just sales it just it it I don't know just sales it just it it I don't know just doesn't make any sense and AI in the way doesn't make any sense and AI in the way doesn't make any sense and AI in the way that people are talking about it if this that people are talking about it if this that people are talking about it if this is generative AI uh you know they're is generative AI uh you know they're is generative AI uh you know they're starting to hide it they're they're starting to hide it they're they're starting to hide it they're they're saying oh it's going to give us arpu saying oh it's going to give us arpu saying oh it's going to give us arpu uplift um you know you're going to see uplift um you know you're going to see uplift um you know you're going to see it in some sort of neous form in the end it in some sort of neous form in the end it in some sort of neous form in the end market in terms yeah it's going to be market in terms yeah it's going to be market in terms yeah it's going to be they're never going to break it out as they're never going to break it out as they're never going to break it out as their own U thing they're going to say their own U thing they're going to say their own U thing they're going to say well this is why we have you know well this is why we have you know well this is why we have you know Windows uplift is because of aips or Windows uplift is because of aips or Windows uplift is because of aips or Azure uplift lift because a co-pilot or Azure uplift lift because a co-pilot or Azure uplift lift because a co-pilot or whatever they you know they'll they'll whatever they you know they'll they'll whatever they you know they'll they'll it'll be part of that um line on you're it'll be part of that um line on you're it'll be part of that um line on you're you're rarely going to see companies you're rarely going to see companies you're rarely going to see companies break it out especially at the software break it out especially at the software break it out especially at the software level I think the the thing is around AI level I think the the thing is around AI level I think the the thing is around AI is that the farther down in the stack is that the farther down in the stack is that the farther down in the stack you are the more picks and shovels you are the more picks and shovels you are the more picks and shovels you're selling yeah uh as to the gold you're selling yeah uh as to the gold you're selling yeah uh as to the gold miners then the more money you're going miners then the more money you're going miners then the more money you're going to make so that there's a lower risk as to make so that there's a lower risk as to make so that there's a lower risk as you get farther down the stack to say you get farther down the stack to say you get farther down the stack to say hey look I'm just making this chip and hey look I'm just making this chip and hey look I'm just making this chip and whether your AI works or not that's your whether your AI works or not that's your whether your AI works or not that's your problem you know it's like I'm still problem you know it's like I'm still problem you know it's like I'm still selling you the Chip And you can come selling you the Chip And you can come selling you the Chip And you can come with some goofy app and no one uses it

with some goofy app and no one uses it with some goofy app and no one uses it but hey so I think you know people are but hey so I think you know people are but hey so I think you know people are looking at Value it's more down in the looking at Value it's more down in the looking at Value it's more down in the the bottom of the AI stack that at the the bottom of the AI stack that at the the bottom of the AI stack that at the top yeah and um top yeah and um top yeah and um the nobody nobody can explain to you I the nobody nobody can explain to you I the nobody nobody can explain to you I mean think about it if with certainty or mean think about it if with certainty or mean think about it if with certainty or a certain degree a certain degree a certain degree of guarded certainty they will tell you of guarded certainty they will tell you of guarded certainty they will tell you that they have a huge massive Tam and that they have a huge massive Tam and that they have a huge massive Tam and they'll site McKenzie's $4 they'll site McKenzie's $4 they'll site McKenzie's $4 trillion number trillion number trillion number bab have when you start to ask them bab have when you start to ask them bab have when you start to ask them questions about well how how does that questions about well how how does that questions about well how how does that work out how you know from your business work out how you know from your business work out how you know from your business perspective where are we seeing the perspective where are we seeing the perspective where are we seeing the levers that are um pushing your business levers that are um pushing your business levers that are um pushing your business toward these astronomical numbers very toward these astronomical numbers very toward these astronomical numbers very little little little detail yet everyone's betting on that detail yet everyone's betting on that detail yet everyone's betting on that it's like okay yeah where have we seen it's like okay yeah where have we seen it's like okay yeah where have we seen that that that before sure I mean you know it's just before sure I mean you know it's just before sure I mean you know it's just you know I guess we're well there's this you know I guess we're well there's this you know I guess we're well there's this thing about you know direction and speed thing about you know direction and speed thing about you know direction and speed right it's you got to know the right right it's you got to know the right right it's you got to know the right direction I think we know the direction direction I think we know the direction direction I think we know the direction we just don't know the speed and so we just don't know the speed and so we just don't know the speed and so therefore we don't really know how to therefore we don't really know how to therefore we don't really know how to calculate the impact yet because the calculate the impact yet because the calculate the impact yet because the speed we could be going 10 miles an hour speed we could be going 10 miles an hour speed we could be going 10 miles an hour or 100 we don't know yet as long as at or 100 we don't know yet as long as at or 100 we don't know yet as long as at least we're going in the right we know least we're going in the right we know least we're going in the right we know where things are heading we just don't where things are heading we just don't where things are heading we just don't know how fast they're going to get there know how fast they're going to get there know how fast they're going to get there yeah I mean I guess the cautionary note yeah I mean I guess the cautionary note yeah I mean I guess the cautionary note here for for vendors in here for for vendors in here for for vendors in particular um now now is probably the particular um now now is probably the particular um now now is probably the time to figure out what what your pivot time to figure out what what your pivot time to figure out what what your pivot is when definitely you know hits

is when definitely you know hits is when definitely you know hits the the the fan you know the probability that the fan you know the probability that the fan you know the probability that the is going to hit so if you're a is going to hit so if you're a is going to hit so if you're a vendor and you cannot you cannot explain vendor and you cannot you cannot explain vendor and you cannot you cannot explain to your own to your own to your own board how you going to hit a massive Tam board how you going to hit a massive Tam board how you going to hit a massive Tam and you're going to make McKenzie look and you're going to make McKenzie look and you're going to make McKenzie look good by hitting this $4 trillion good by hitting this $4 trillion good by hitting this $4 trillion number you better have a good plan number you better have a good plan number you better have a good plan B and if you're an B and if you're an B and if you're an investor you better have a good plan investor you better have a good plan investor you better have a good plan have how well do companies anticipate H have how well do companies anticipate H have how well do companies anticipate H how well do companies how well do companies how well do companies anticipate this is about anticipation anticipate this is about anticipation anticipate this is about anticipation right depends uh I look at the quarter right depends uh I look at the quarter right depends uh I look at the quarter by quarter reaction that you by quarter reaction that you by quarter reaction that you see see see absolutely absolutely absolutely um it's just right they're slaves to the um it's just right they're slaves to the um it's just right they're slaves to the latest you know they've dumped latest you know they've dumped latest you know they've dumped connectivity telecoms down the toilet connectivity telecoms down the toilet connectivity telecoms down the toilet they don't care about it anymore and all they don't care about it anymore and all they don't care about it anymore and all the while I'm telling you Chinese the while I'm telling you Chinese the while I'm telling you Chinese government and Huawei are laughing their government and Huawei are laughing their government and Huawei are laughing their asses off they're saying go ahead ignore yeah I think Andrea's point they ignore yeah I think Andrea's point they don't talk about 5G anymore and you know don't talk about 5G anymore and you know don't talk about 5G anymore and you know that's what going back to this hype the that's what going back to this hype the that's what going back to this hype the the damage of hype now 5G has lost the damage of hype now 5G has lost the damage of hype now 5G has lost everything nobody talks about it no they everything nobody talks about it no they everything nobody talks about it no they didn't even mention the didn't even mention the didn't even mention the x75 modem which is just a freaking

x75 modem which is just a freaking x75 modem which is just a freaking Marvel Marvel Marvel beast in in the new Samsung line of beast in in the new Samsung line of beast in in the new Samsung line of phones even talk about well yeah it's phones even talk about well yeah it's phones even talk about well yeah it's yeah old news and you know now you have yeah old news and you know now you have yeah old news and you know now you have Huawei with their own 5G modem they're Huawei with their own 5G modem they're Huawei with their own 5G modem they're completely independent of anyone in the completely independent of anyone in the completely independent of anyone in the west yeah and you know I mean it's just west yeah and you know I mean it's just west yeah and you know I mean it's just like okay yeah I think to Andrea's point like okay yeah I think to Andrea's point like okay yeah I think to Andrea's point though about uh predicting going back to though about uh predicting going back to though about uh predicting going back to predic minion and then everyone everyone predic minion and then everyone everyone predic minion and then everyone everyone dumps it everyone pivots to dumps it everyone pivots to dumps it everyone pivots to Enterprise because they they know that Enterprise because they they know that Enterprise because they they know that their stock will go down if they latch their stock will go down if they latch their stock will go down if they latch themselves to some sort of T thing yeah themselves to some sort of T thing yeah themselves to some sort of T thing yeah but I think the the part of this but I think the the part of this but I think the the part of this practice is good companies have a practice is good companies have a practice is good companies have a practice of continuously understanding practice of continuously understanding practice of continuously understanding strategy and looking at strategy and looking at strategy and looking at externalities that will profoundly externalities that will profoundly externalities that will profoundly impact their business that they have no impact their business that they have no impact their business that they have no control over and I think you you know control over and I think you you know control over and I think you you know good companies have a quarterly or good companies have a quarterly or good companies have a quarterly or regular process to look at that and and regular process to look at that and and regular process to look at that and and and make adjustments about where the and make adjustments about where the and make adjustments about where the future may go um you know that's that future may go um you know that's that future may go um you know that's that that the the the biggest danger for that the the the biggest danger for that the the the biggest danger for companies is sort of to get totally companies is sort of to get totally companies is sort of to get totally focused on their own business and not focused on their own business and not focused on their own business and not understand the externalities and then understand the externalities and then understand the externalities and then they get hit they get blindsided it's they get hit they get blindsided it's they get hit they get blindsided it's too late uh it happens so many times so too late uh it happens so many times so too late uh it happens so many times so I've been at companies where they have I've been at companies where they have I've been at companies where they have that process where it's like every that process where it's like every that process where it's like every quarter so we're going to take a look at quarter so we're going to take a look at quarter so we're going to take a look at all these things that are happening out all these things that are happening out all these things that are happening out there that we have no control over that there that we have no control over that there that we have no control over that could totally upend our business and you could totally upend our business and you could totally upend our business and you know we're we're you know looking for know we're we're you know looking for know we're we're you know looking for the the the medior uh to understand and I think that

medior uh to understand and I think that medior uh to understand and I think that those companies can anticipate as best those companies can anticipate as best those companies can anticipate as best they can you know what what could happen they can you know what what could happen they can you know what what could happen in the future but but it's a discipline in the future but but it's a discipline in the future but but it's a discipline and it's hard to do especially if you and it's hard to do especially if you and it's hard to do especially if you have an ongoing business that's doing have an ongoing business that's doing have an ongoing business that's doing really really really well like Hey we're everything's great well like Hey we're everything's great well like Hey we're everything's great you know and uh you're not realizing the you know and uh you're not realizing the you know and uh you're not realizing the the the meteors that are that are coming the the meteors that are that are coming the the meteors that are that are coming in so it's tough so yeah we got to do in so it's tough so yeah we got to do in so it's tough so yeah we got to do our disclosure here so um as with any our disclosure here so um as with any our disclosure here so um as with any episode on uh iot Coffee Talk take us episode on uh iot Coffee Talk take us episode on uh iot Coffee Talk take us seriously at your own risk we're only seriously at your own risk we're only seriously at your own risk we're only here to have fun okay this is how we here to have fun okay this is how we here to have fun okay this is how we basically re you know just relax that basically re you know just relax that basically re you know just relax that release yeah there you go you know um so release yeah there you go you know um so release yeah there you go you know um so I will I will follow up on Pete's I will I will follow up on Pete's I will I will follow up on Pete's comment though that is why you engage comment though that is why you engage comment though that is why you engage companies like Nick's curve and all of companies like Nick's curve and all of companies like Nick's curve and all of us you know because how else are you us you know because how else are you us you know because how else are you going to be aware of all the things that going to be aware of all the things that going to be aware of all the things that could have the outside in right correct could have the outside in right correct could have the outside in right correct you know when you have the knowledge you know when you have the knowledge you know when you have the knowledge base of people that are doing this every base of people that are doing this every base of people that are doing this every day and have a pretty good sense of day and have a pretty good sense of day and have a pretty good sense of what's working and not working you know what's working and not working you know what's working and not working you know don't don't feel like you can't engage don't don't feel like you can't engage don't don't feel like you can't engage us I mean that's what it's amazing how us I mean that's what it's amazing how us I mean that's what it's amazing how many people try to do this stuff on many people try to do this stuff on many people try to do this stuff on their own and and then have a meteor hit their own and and then have a meteor hit their own and and then have a meteor hit them yeah have a minimum get aing hoodie them yeah have a minimum get aing hoodie them yeah have a minimum get aing hoodie get a hoodie at least was it's funny I get a hoodie at least was it's funny I get a hoodie at least was it's funny I was I was had a client who was um

was I was had a client who was um was I was had a client who was um potential client was asking me for potential client was asking me for potential client was asking me for advice on some strategy stuff and uh you advice on some strategy stuff and uh you advice on some strategy stuff and uh you know they gave me their pitch and I'm know they gave me their pitch and I'm know they gave me their pitch and I'm thinking wow these guys are in trouble thinking wow these guys are in trouble thinking wow these guys are in trouble uh and I didn't say that out loud but I uh and I didn't say that out loud but I uh and I didn't say that out loud but I sort of said you know what I would do sort of said you know what I would do sort of said you know what I would do and I don't know if there's anyone in and I don't know if there's anyone in and I don't know if there's anyone in your company telling you this message your company telling you this message your company telling you this message but I would do like these three things but I would do like these three things but I would do like these three things that were pretty you know dramatic that were pretty you know dramatic that were pretty you know dramatic changes to their strategy I'm like you changes to their strategy I'm like you changes to their strategy I'm like you need to come up with a story that works need to come up with a story that works need to come up with a story that works here you need to make an alliance here here you need to make an alliance here here you need to make an alliance here otherwise I just don't see this thing otherwise I just don't see this thing otherwise I just don't see this thing working and you know it's hard to find working and you know it's hard to find working and you know it's hard to find people internally to companies to give people internally to companies to give people internally to companies to give you that message because everyone wants you that message because everyone wants you that message because everyone wants to kind of get promoted make the balls to kind of get promoted make the balls to kind of get promoted make the balls look good and not shake the boat I see look good and not shake the boat I see look good and not shake the boat I see that so many times I'm sure we all see that so many times I'm sure we all see that so many times I'm sure we all see oh yeah so it's like how do you get that oh yeah so it's like how do you get that oh yeah so it's like how do you get that uh how do you get that Honesty on the uh how do you get that Honesty on the uh how do you get that Honesty on the table to say you know let's let's let's table to say you know let's let's let's table to say you know let's let's let's kind of think outside the box and have kind of think outside the box and have kind of think outside the box and have some hard messages that maybe not some hard messages that maybe not some hard messages that maybe not everyone wants to hear and I think good everyone wants to hear and I think good everyone wants to hear and I think good companies have that discipline they have companies have that discipline they have companies have that discipline they have that ability to hear bad news or at Le that ability to hear bad news or at Le that ability to hear bad news or at Le take alternative viewpoints but um yeah take alternative viewpoints but um yeah take alternative viewpoints but um yeah they don't have to accept our they don't have to accept our they don't have to accept our pontification I mean they just have to pontification I mean they just have to pontification I mean they just have to you know but listening to it sure is you know but listening to it sure is you know but listening to it sure is 100% sometimes better than what they do 100% sometimes better than what they do 100% sometimes better than what they do themselves it's tough but yeah I mean themselves it's tough but yeah I mean themselves it's tough but yeah I mean and you know um it's weird ironically and you know um it's weird ironically and you know um it's weird ironically eventually the the market punishes these eventually the the market punishes these eventually the the market punishes these companies you know um um it's it's and companies you know um um it's it's and companies you know um um it's it's and you know it's asymmetrical on the way up you know it's asymmetrical on the way up you know it's asymmetrical on the way up and it's asymmetrical on the yeah no and it's asymmetrical on the yeah no and it's asymmetrical on the yeah no that's true but it has to it has to be that's true but it has to it has to be that's true but it has to it has to be pretty dramatic right to be punished but

pretty dramatic right to be punished but pretty dramatic right to be punished but how much is happening that is not how much is happening that is not how much is happening that is not dramatic but it still leaves money on dramatic but it still leaves money on dramatic but it still leaves money on the table or it's that's great point and the table or it's that's great point and the table or it's that's great point and I I think that's and there people I mean I I think that's and there people I mean I I think that's and there people I mean I used to work in a large corporation I used to work in a large corporation I used to work in a large corporation right so their internal voices that right so their internal voices that right so their internal voices that anticipate or you know say things and anticipate or you know say things and anticipate or you know say things and they're quieted down because it just they're quieted down because it just they're quieted down because it just doesn't fit the doesn't fit the doesn't fit the narrative or executing on it just too narrative or executing on it just too narrative or executing on it just too expensive you expensive you expensive you know yeah that that's that's true know yeah that that's that's true know yeah that that's that's true too yeah but you know what what I find too yeah but you know what what I find too yeah but you know what what I find at the end of the day is that when you at the end of the day is that when you at the end of the day is that when you have those departures fundamentally have those departures fundamentally have those departures fundamentally you're losing sight of what is valuable you're losing sight of what is valuable you're losing sight of what is valuable to the customer you know especially if to the customer you know especially if to the customer you know especially if you're a technology company um you know you're a technology company um you know you're a technology company um you know one of the things that I think is really one of the things that I think is really one of the things that I think is really you know depressing about a lot of the you know depressing about a lot of the you know depressing about a lot of the neps you know the big incumbent guys is neps you know the big incumbent guys is neps you know the big incumbent guys is they were so focused on um selling stuff they were so focused on um selling stuff they were so focused on um selling stuff that the The Operators or customers had that the The Operators or customers had that the The Operators or customers had you know measured appetite you know measured appetite you know measured appetite for uh and then shedding off the the for uh and then shedding off the the for uh and then shedding off the the stuff that actually is important right stuff that actually is important right stuff that actually is important right now which is like for the network and now which is like for the network and now which is like for the network and this is what I'm going to be focusing on this is what I'm going to be focusing on this is what I'm going to be focusing on at mwc is 5G modernization at mwc is 5G modernization at mwc is 5G modernization what what are these freaking vendors what what are these freaking vendors what what are these freaking vendors doing to help modernize um The Operators doing to help modernize um The Operators doing to help modernize um The Operators Network and operation so that they can Network and operation so that they can Network and operation so that they can in a valuable way make that first one

in a valuable way make that first one in a valuable way make that first one two three four steps toward you know two three four steps toward you know two three four steps toward you know upgrading their Network in 5G right and upgrading their Network in 5G right and upgrading their Network in 5G right and um you know and that's something I teed um you know and that's something I teed um you know and that's something I teed up last year so if you listen to all the up last year so if you listen to all the up last year so if you listen to all the stuff that I did last year that's what I stuff that I did last year that's what I stuff that I did last year that's what I teed up this year it's even it's going teed up this year it's even it's going teed up this year it's even it's going to be more important than ever for the to be more important than ever for the to be more important than ever for the industry and still nobody talks about it industry and still nobody talks about it industry and still nobody talks about it they're just like licking their wounds they're just like licking their wounds they're just like licking their wounds going oh what happened to open ran is going oh what happened to open ran is going oh what happened to open ran is like well oh yeah well I wanted to ask like well oh yeah well I wanted to ask like well oh yeah well I wanted to ask you if you've discussed recently open you if you've discussed recently open you if you've discussed recently open ran or at all what have I have you ran or at all what have I have you ran or at all what have I have you discussed it yeah in here in this forum discussed it yeah in here in this forum discussed it yeah in here in this forum no a little bit but we made a couple of no a little bit but we made a couple of no a little bit but we made a couple of comments comments comments as okay as okay as okay yeah talk about it in the future right yeah talk about it in the future right yeah talk about it in the future right especially after AT&T's uh yeah decision especially after AT&T's uh yeah decision especially after AT&T's uh yeah decision a few months ago yeah to me that was was a few months ago yeah to me that was was a few months ago yeah to me that was was super interesting yeah super super super interesting yeah super super super interesting yeah super super interesting interesting interesting AT&T VOD you know everyone's kind of AT&T VOD you know everyone's kind of AT&T VOD you know everyone's kind of putting their bets down it's just again putting their bets down it's just again putting their bets down it's just again I think it's a matter of Direction and I think it's a matter of Direction and I think it's a matter of Direction and and and speed so I think the direction and and speed so I think the direction and and speed so I think the direction is pretty clear it's just how long it's is pretty clear it's just how long it's is pretty clear it's just how long it's going to take to get there and it might going to take to get there and it might going to take to get there and it might take a long time depending on you know take a long time depending on you know take a long time depending on you know lots of factors and a lot of lots of factors and a lot of lots of factors and a lot of people what triggered me now is when people what triggered me now is when people what triggered me now is when when Leonard spoke about modernization when Leonard spoke about modernization when Leonard spoke about modernization because now now people talk in terms of because now now people talk in terms of because now now people talk in terms of are your radios upgradable to open ran are your radios upgradable to open ran are your radios upgradable to open ran if you are you're

if you are you're if you are you're [Music] [Music] [Music] modernized sof for upgradeable so one of modernized sof for upgradeable so one of modernized sof for upgradeable so one of the research agenda items that I have the research agenda items that I have the research agenda items that I have with Earl Lum of ejl Wireless going into with Earl Lum of ejl Wireless going into with Earl Lum of ejl Wireless going into uh into mwc we just cut like a a podcast uh into mwc we just cut like a a podcast uh into mwc we just cut like a a podcast on that short one just to introduce what on that short one just to introduce what on that short one just to introduce what we're going to talk about talks exactly we're going to talk about talks exactly we're going to talk about talks exactly about that you'll find it interesting about that you'll find it interesting about that you'll find it interesting Andre I'd love your feedback on it I Andre I'd love your feedback on it I Andre I'd love your feedback on it I already you know kick the tires on it's already you know kick the tires on it's already you know kick the tires on it's kind of it's going to ruffle some kind of it's going to ruffle some kind of it's going to ruffle some feathers feathers no doubt but it's just feathers feathers no doubt but it's just feathers feathers no doubt but it's just like hey you're not selling anything like hey you're not selling anything like hey you're not selling anything anyway yeah about is it with Earl you anyway yeah about is it with Earl you anyway yeah about is it with Earl you said Earl Lum yeah earum is it on said Earl Lum yeah earum is it on said Earl Lum yeah earum is it on LinkedIn or yeah yeah I I'll send you LinkedIn or yeah yeah I I'll send you LinkedIn or yeah yeah I I'll send you the stuff but he's like Mr radio yes yes the stuff but he's like Mr radio yes yes the stuff but he's like Mr radio yes yes I know of him through Linkedin yeah Mr I know of him through Linkedin yeah Mr I know of him through Linkedin yeah Mr radio he's Mr radio um you want to know radio he's Mr radio um you want to know radio he's Mr radio um you want to know anything about radios that dude is like anything about radios that dude is like anything about radios that dude is like the guy but we have an interesting the guy but we have an interesting the guy but we have an interesting agenda agenda agenda um yeah you know what don't get it's um yeah you know what don't get it's um yeah you know what don't get it's like don't get pissed off at me that you like don't get pissed off at me that you like don't get pissed off at me that you didn't sell anything it's be pissed off didn't sell anything it's be pissed off didn't sell anything it's be pissed off at at at yourself do you know what I'm saying and yourself do you know what I'm saying and yourself do you know what I'm saying and I you know I am officially the iot I you know I am officially the iot I you know I am officially the iot so so so I don't know that's kind of like you I don't know that's kind of like you I don't know that's kind of like you know that's my delivery style know that's my delivery style know that's my delivery style unfortunately it probably doesn't work unfortunately it probably doesn't work unfortunately it probably doesn't work for me but um yeah don't be pissed off for me but um yeah don't be pissed off for me but um yeah don't be pissed off at at at me I'm just trying help you out you know

me I'm just trying help you out you know me I'm just trying help you out you know we're just trying to help you out by we're just trying to help you out by we're just trying to help you out by cutting through the doodo shoveling it cutting through the doodo shoveling it cutting through the doodo shoveling it by the way I yes I do need to also by the way I yes I do need to also by the way I yes I do need to also exit hey everyone thanks for joining us exit hey everyone thanks for joining us exit hey everyone thanks for joining us and um we really appreciate you um you and um we really appreciate you um you and um we really appreciate you um you know sticking it out to the end which know sticking it out to the end which know sticking it out to the end which I'm none of you have done subscribe to I'm none of you have done subscribe to I'm none of you have done subscribe to www.i www.i www.i coffee.com for all the insanity on Tech coffee.com for all the insanity on Tech coffee.com for all the insanity on Tech and the clarification of all of that and the clarification of all of that and the clarification of all of that Insanity here amongst this panel of iot Insanity here amongst this panel of iot Insanity here amongst this panel of iot coffee talk um peoples and we will see coffee talk um peoples and we will see coffee talk um peoples and we will see you next week bye all right bye see you you next week bye all right bye see you you next week bye all right bye see you have a great day have a great day have a great day everybody everybody everybody [Music]