IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 154 - Taking the Stupid Out of IoT!

[Applause] [Applause] 1984 the greatest rock album ever and I 1984 the greatest rock album ever and I 1984 the greatest rock album ever and I know it's Matt's favorite band because know it's Matt's favorite band because know it's Matt's favorite band because he's from the UK it was a pain he's from the UK it was a pain he's from the UK it was a pain come on you know who Van Halen you can't come on you know who Van Halen you can't come on you know who Van Halen you can't be like the Ducks don't tell me you have to go in don't tell me you have to go in Wikipedia them Wikipedia them Wikipedia them yeah because there's a man called House yeah because there's a man called House yeah because there's a man called House of Pain and that's why you could yeah I of Pain and that's why you could yeah I of Pain and that's why you could yeah I thought you were talking about I was thought you were talking about I was thought you were talking about I was like that doesn't sound like house of like that doesn't sound like house of like that doesn't sound like house of pain at all right okay right pain at all right okay right pain at all right okay right now we know you're a hip-hopper right no now we know you're a hip-hopper right no now we know you're a hip-hopper right no no problem I'm a rocker oh you're a no problem I'm a rocker oh you're a no problem I'm a rocker oh you're a Morocco but you do know who Van Halen is Morocco but you do know who Van Halen is Morocco but you do know who Van Halen is right right right cool good yeah hey Bill looks like cool good yeah hey Bill looks like cool good yeah hey Bill looks like you're at the airport you're at the airport you're at the airport yes yes yes heading home for a few days yes yes yes heading home for a few days yes yes yes heading home for a few days and then it's off to Chattanooga and and then it's off to Chattanooga and and then it's off to Chattanooga and wearing it down what's up with that bill wearing it down what's up with that bill wearing it down what's up with that bill Dallas hat 25 years of pain 25 years of pain yeah you've been in you've been in the yeah you've been in you've been in the yeah you've been in you've been in the House of Payne for a long time House of Payne for a long time House of Payne for a long time with the Cowboys you know that's a good with the Cowboys you know that's a good with the Cowboys you know that's a good one one one yeah maybe maybe they can get Emmitt yeah maybe maybe they can get Emmitt yeah maybe maybe they can get Emmitt Smith to come out of retirement and help Smith to come out of retirement and help Smith to come out of retirement and help you guys out you guys out you guys out hey Victoria used to be my name hey Victoria used to be my name hey Victoria used to be my name get them all get them all yeah when I get them all get them all yeah when I get them all get them all yeah when I lived I lived in an apartment complex lived I lived in an apartment complex lived I lived in an apartment complex Emmett was my neighbor

Emmett was my neighbor Emmett was my neighbor no way many years ago oh he was he was no way many years ago oh he was he was no way many years ago oh he was he was the kindest you should have seen oh the kindest you should have seen oh the kindest you should have seen oh that's great I was extremely kind to that's great I was extremely kind to that's great I was extremely kind to kids yeah we have great memories of him kids yeah we have great memories of him kids yeah we have great memories of him oh that's awesome hey David hey Rob I'm oh that's awesome hey David hey Rob I'm oh that's awesome hey David hey Rob I'm going to twerk by my window so I can see going to twerk by my window so I can see going to twerk by my window so I can see myself in your camera I'll be right yes you know what Matt we're in our you know what Matt we're in our Collective home away from home as usual Collective home away from home as usual Collective home away from home as usual back in Vegas back in Vegas back in Vegas oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah what's all in Vegas this week what's all in Vegas this week what's all in Vegas this week well David you're at a channel partner well David you're at a channel partner well David you're at a channel partner thing I'm I'm here with uh with zebra uh thing I'm I'm here with uh with zebra uh thing I'm I'm here with uh with zebra uh they have an event for their uh isvs and they have an event for their uh isvs and they have an event for their uh isvs and since I decided to join the workforce since I decided to join the workforce since I decided to join the workforce that was like uh fast one and two back that was like uh fast one and two back that was like uh fast one and two back uh back with a gig so yeah that's what uh back with a gig so yeah that's what uh back with a gig so yeah that's what I'm working out with David that was fast that's awesome yeah but yeah I've had a that's awesome yeah but yeah I've had a lot of guys pinging on me from the some lot of guys pinging on me from the some lot of guys pinging on me from the some Channel partner thing uh the guy from Channel partner thing uh the guy from Channel partner thing uh the guy from Blues Wireless I know pinged on me looks Blues Wireless I know pinged on me looks Blues Wireless I know pinged on me looks like there's a bunch of folks we all like there's a bunch of folks we all like there's a bunch of folks we all might jointly know there and then I'm might jointly know there and then I'm might jointly know there and then I'm here with Ryan Prosser from very and here with Ryan Prosser from very and here with Ryan Prosser from very and we're at this we're at this we're at this it's kind of a building Hospitality it's kind of a building Hospitality it's kind of a building Hospitality event down at Mandalay Bay but if you event down at Mandalay Bay but if you event down at Mandalay Bay but if you were kind of going after smart buildings

were kind of going after smart buildings were kind of going after smart buildings that's where you might hang out and so that's where you might hang out and so that's where you might hang out and so uh so that's that's where we are uh so that's that's where we are uh so that's that's where we are ah ah ah well hey um to our iot coffee talk well hey um to our iot coffee talk well hey um to our iot coffee talk listeners and viewers welcome and uh Hey listeners and viewers welcome and uh Hey listeners and viewers welcome and uh Hey Andrea thanks for joining we haven't Andrea thanks for joining we haven't Andrea thanks for joining we haven't seen you in a long time and hey Matt seen you in a long time and hey Matt seen you in a long time and hey Matt Matt Hatton of transforma insights uh Matt Hatton of transforma insights uh Matt Hatton of transforma insights uh joining us this guy is legendary you joining us this guy is legendary you joining us this guy is legendary you know we used to be colleagues when I was know we used to be colleagues when I was know we used to be colleagues when I was at Gartner and I was there like ships at Gartner and I was there like ships at Gartner and I was there like ships you're passing the night you're passing the night you're passing the night yeah exactly yeah exactly yeah exactly and uh and uh and uh um yeah I you know how did you pronounce um yeah I you know how did you pronounce um yeah I you know how did you pronounce your former company your former company your former company because makina and mashina and I mean because makina and mashina and I mean because makina and mashina and I mean was there especially pretty ambiguous is was there especially pretty ambiguous is was there especially pretty ambiguous is how we describe it because the more you how we describe it because the more you how we describe it because the more you have to think about it the more you'll have to think about it the more you'll have to think about it the more you'll remember it that's the pretentious remember it that's the pretentious remember it that's the pretentious answer the uh the real answer is uh we answer the uh the real answer is uh we answer the uh the real answer is uh we were looking for the Latin word for were looking for the Latin word for were looking for the Latin word for machine hang on this is supposed to be machine hang on this is supposed to be machine hang on this is supposed to be the less pretentious answer but you know the less pretentious answer but you know the less pretentious answer but you know also equally pretentious we thought yeah also equally pretentious we thought yeah also equally pretentious we thought yeah we're going to be covering machine to we're going to be covering machine to we're going to be covering machine to machine we need a word that sort of sums machine we need a word that sort of sums machine we need a word that sort of sums that up so um the Latin word for machine that up so um the Latin word for machine that up so um the Latin word for machine which is also incidentally the Italian which is also incidentally the Italian which is also incidentally the Italian word for car word for car word for car um you said a lot of stuff in Italy but you you said a lot of stuff in Italy but you know know know because they thought you were doing Auto because they thought you were doing Auto because they thought you were doing Auto forecasts right thumbs up little with

forecasts right thumbs up little with forecasts right thumbs up little with cars yeah yeah those Car Guys yeah yeah cars yeah yeah those Car Guys yeah yeah cars yeah yeah those Car Guys yeah yeah I love it I love it well you know you're I love it I love it well you know you're I love it I love it well you know you're you're you guys are uh now uh famous uh you're you guys are uh now uh famous uh you're you guys are uh now uh famous uh on iot coffee tacos Rob is just a huge on iot coffee tacos Rob is just a huge on iot coffee tacos Rob is just a huge fan of you guys well that's good yeah fan of you guys well that's good yeah fan of you guys well that's good yeah yeah I would expect nothing less yeah yeah I would expect nothing less yeah yeah I would expect nothing less yeah well if someone wants the legit story well if someone wants the legit story well if someone wants the legit story and not the hyped up Fantasy Land you and not the hyped up Fantasy Land you and not the hyped up Fantasy Land you guys are the ones to go to we tried to keep it real as they as they we tried to keep it real as they as they say yeah say yeah say yeah um there's a um there's a um there's a I was I was asked the other day about I was I was asked the other day about I was I was asked the other day about um you've probably had various um you've probably had various um you've probably had various conversations about iot forecasts over conversations about iot forecasts over conversations about iot forecasts over the the years you know how come we the the years you know how come we the the years you know how come we haven't hit those 50 billion devices and um you know as someone who was doing and um you know as someone who was doing forecasts of iot in in 2011 when that forecasts of iot in in 2011 when that forecasts of iot in in 2011 when that those numbers came out those numbers came out those numbers came out um I'll just say there are a lot of um I'll just say there are a lot of um I'll just say there are a lot of people who weren't very good at people who weren't very good at people who weren't very good at forecasting things because we got an forecasting things because we got an forecasting things because we got an awful lot closer than that like a awful lot closer than that like a awful lot closer than that like a quarter of that which was not bad we quarter of that which was not bad we quarter of that which was not bad we were like 20 out which over 10 years I were like 20 out which over 10 years I were like 20 out which over 10 years I think it's not bad so that's not bad think it's not bad so that's not bad think it's not bad so that's not bad well I'll have to adjust to the the the well I'll have to adjust to the the the well I'll have to adjust to the the the at least the fact that I was privy to at least the fact that I was privy to at least the fact that I was privy to that a lot of the companies that I spoke that a lot of the companies that I spoke that a lot of the companies that I spoke to really uh really to really uh really to really uh really um had a lot of confidence in the work um had a lot of confidence in the work um had a lot of confidence in the work that uh you and the team were doing at that uh you and the team were doing at that uh you and the team were doing at machina machina machina uh and and now transform us so yeah it's

uh and and now transform us so yeah it's uh and and now transform us so yeah it's great to have you on by the way you know great to have you on by the way you know great to have you on by the way you know it's probably long overdue given that it's probably long overdue given that it's probably long overdue given that we've been doing this for uh three years we've been doing this for uh three years we've been doing this for uh three years talking crap about forecasts and having talking crap about forecasts and having talking crap about forecasts and having you on is just uh really awesome this is you on is just uh really awesome this is you on is just uh really awesome this is a great opportunity for you to tell us a great opportunity for you to tell us a great opportunity for you to tell us how full of crap we are or at least I am on several occasions right yeah yeah on several occasions right yeah yeah yeah yeah maybe maybe that's old old yeah yeah maybe maybe that's old old yeah yeah maybe maybe that's old old territory not to uh not to go back over territory not to uh not to go back over territory not to uh not to go back over again but um you know I I find this a uh again but um you know I I find this a uh again but um you know I I find this a uh an enlightening uh session every I hope an enlightening uh session every I hope an enlightening uh session every I hope you guys put these ones out once a week you guys put these ones out once a week you guys put these ones out once a week yeah once a week yeah yeah yeah yeah once a week yeah yeah yeah yeah once a week yeah yeah yeah you know you've got a lot of diverse and you know you've got a lot of diverse and you know you've got a lot of diverse and uh and interesting perspectives on uh and interesting perspectives on uh and interesting perspectives on everything I uh I think it's a great everything I uh I think it's a great everything I uh I think it's a great educational tool right me you're not educational tool right me you're not educational tool right me you're not trying to be an educational tool I'm trying to be an educational tool I'm trying to be an educational tool I'm quite sure of that but you know that quite sure of that but you know that quite sure of that but you know that that is what it ends up being whether that is what it ends up being whether that is what it ends up being whether you like it or not well you know you get you like it or not well you know you get you like it or not well you know you get a bunch of smart people in the room with a bunch of smart people in the room with a bunch of smart people in the room with a lot of experience like everyone that's a lot of experience like everyone that's a lot of experience like everyone that's here right now and something good comes here right now and something good comes here right now and something good comes out of it right yeah we think this is out of it right yeah we think this is out of it right yeah we think this is more like a technical version of more like a technical version of more like a technical version of watching ESPN SportsCenter you know irreverent you know have some fun you irreverent you know have some fun you know uh you know David and I were having know uh you know David and I were having know uh you know David and I were having dinner last night and we were kind of dinner last night and we were kind of dinner last night and we were kind of talking about you know the early days of talking about you know the early days of talking about you know the early days of the show was the early dark days of the show was the early dark days of the show was the early dark days of coven when we didn't know how things

coven when we didn't know how things coven when we didn't know how things were going to work out for the world it were going to work out for the world it were going to work out for the world it was more than just it was us just was more than just it was us just was more than just it was us just wanting to get together and talk to some wanting to get together and talk to some wanting to get together and talk to some people once a week to be honest with you people once a week to be honest with you people once a week to be honest with you you know you know you know it was you know a lot a lot of isolation it was you know a lot a lot of isolation it was you know a lot a lot of isolation back then yeah I was I was I was tired back then yeah I was I was I was tired back then yeah I was I was I was tired of of wiping down with bleach my cereal of of wiping down with bleach my cereal of of wiping down with bleach my cereal boxes boxes boxes I'm glad I had you guys to get me I'm glad I had you guys to get me I'm glad I had you guys to get me through it through it through it absolutely what you got to have you got absolutely what you got to have you got absolutely what you got to have you got to have something I mean the the fact to have something I mean the the fact to have something I mean the the fact that we started our new the the latest that we started our new the the latest that we started our new the the latest company transforming sites we started company transforming sites we started company transforming sites we started that in November 2019 and we had about that in November 2019 and we had about that in November 2019 and we had about three or four months which is not not three or four months which is not not three or four months which is not not normal the first few months is never a normal the first few months is never a normal the first few months is never a normal thing in the in the startup and normal thing in the in the startup and normal thing in the in the startup and then we were straight into lockdown so then we were straight into lockdown so then we were straight into lockdown so we were kind of a lockdown baby if you we were kind of a lockdown baby if you we were kind of a lockdown baby if you like like like um and it meant we had plenty of time to um and it meant we had plenty of time to um and it meant we had plenty of time to do our do our do our report writing and do our research I report writing and do our research I report writing and do our research I guess but it's never quite the same as guess but it's never quite the same as guess but it's never quite the same as getting in front of people right you getting in front of people right you getting in front of people right you don't have the kind of conversations don't have the kind of conversations don't have the kind of conversations that you have when you're actually face that you have when you're actually face that you have when you're actually face to face with with someone in uh in an to face with with someone in uh in an to face with with someone in uh in an event or whatever so that's always event or whatever so that's always event or whatever so that's always preferable but you know I was glad I had preferable but you know I was glad I had preferable but you know I was glad I had something uh constructive to occupy my something uh constructive to occupy my something uh constructive to occupy my time time time yes you could have written a novel or yes you could have written a novel or yes you could have written a novel or something maybe I don't know well something maybe I don't know well something maybe I don't know well actually I did I did well I didn't write actually I did I did well I didn't write actually I did I did well I didn't write a novel I wrote a book uh about the a novel I wrote a book uh about the a novel I wrote a book uh about the Internet of Things oh yeah yes you did Internet of Things oh yeah yes you did Internet of Things oh yeah yes you did it was quite it was quite brief you may it was quite it was quite brief you may it was quite it was quite brief you may have yeah have yeah have yeah into your into your hands at some point into your into your hands at some point into your into your hands at some point I I read it yeah it was good it was very

I I read it yeah it was good it was very I I read it yeah it was good it was very it it was it was hard hitting it it was it was hard hitting it it was it was hard hitting cutting yeah Rick thought it was too cutting yeah Rick thought it was too cutting yeah Rick thought it was too cynical it was very cynical cynical it was very cynical cynical it was very cynical but right on the money yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so what are you up to today what are you so what are you up to today what are you so what are you up to today what are you doing these days Matt what do you what's doing these days Matt what do you what's doing these days Matt what do you what's the latest with you guys um um what's what's cooking at the moment what's what's cooking at the moment what's what's cooking at the moment there's a whole bunch of things we're there's a whole bunch of things we're there's a whole bunch of things we're doing around doing around doing around um what we've turned transition topics um what we've turned transition topics um what we've turned transition topics Okay so we've got this hypothesis the Okay so we've got this hypothesis the Okay so we've got this hypothesis the iot is in a period of transition uh iot is in a period of transition uh iot is in a period of transition uh there's a uh all around a whole whole there's a uh all around a whole whole there's a uh all around a whole whole bunch of very specific areas now you may bunch of very specific areas now you may bunch of very specific areas now you may argue tours ever thus but argue tours ever thus but argue tours ever thus but um we've highlighted I mean eight or ten um we've highlighted I mean eight or ten um we've highlighted I mean eight or ten of of these areas around things like uh of of these areas around things like uh of of these areas around things like uh moving to the edge around things to do moving to the edge around things to do moving to the edge around things to do with uh moving from just selling with uh moving from just selling with uh moving from just selling products saying Services there's there's products saying Services there's there's products saying Services there's there's a whole bunch of these these Transitions a whole bunch of these these Transitions a whole bunch of these these Transitions and I'm working through uh uh a set of and I'm working through uh uh a set of and I'm working through uh uh a set of of material on a bunch of these one of material on a bunch of these one of material on a bunch of these one around iot connectivity management around iot connectivity management around iot connectivity management platforms uh which will be a oh sorry I platforms uh which will be a oh sorry I platforms uh which will be a oh sorry I close dirty to your heart obviously you close dirty to your heart obviously you close dirty to your heart obviously you know a little bit about that that is an know a little bit about that that is an know a little bit about that that is an area area area um a bunch around security at the moment um a bunch around security at the moment um a bunch around security at the moment as well that's a that's a hot top topics as well that's a that's a hot top topics as well that's a that's a hot top topics and that's that's what I'm working and that's that's what I'm working and that's that's what I'm working through e-sim is the other one that through e-sim is the other one that through e-sim is the other one that that's coming out I'm a telecom guy that's coming out I'm a telecom guy that's coming out I'm a telecom guy right so when it comes to talking about right so when it comes to talking about right so when it comes to talking about the iot stuff it tends to be a lot

the iot stuff it tends to be a lot the iot stuff it tends to be a lot around that mobile networks and anything around that mobile networks and anything around that mobile networks and anything to do with to do with to do with um uh that that sort of wide area um uh that that sort of wide area um uh that that sort of wide area connectivity side of things so I'm connectivity side of things so I'm connectivity side of things so I'm heavily tend to to focus a lot on that heavily tend to to focus a lot on that heavily tend to to focus a lot on that but we're also doing a bunch of but we're also doing a bunch of but we're also doing a bunch of interesting stuff around things like AI interesting stuff around things like AI interesting stuff around things like AI regulations and just legislation around regulations and just legislation around regulations and just legislation around things to do with with all manner of things to do with with all manner of things to do with with all manner of different Technologies so that's that's different Technologies so that's that's different Technologies so that's that's kind of I'll leave that to other people kind of I'll leave that to other people kind of I'll leave that to other people and I just rattle on about and I just rattle on about and I just rattle on about and Betty Sims and and 5G and and that and Betty Sims and and 5G and and that and Betty Sims and and 5G and and that kind of stuff so that's why and it kind of stuff so that's why and it kind of stuff so that's why and it really it really just want to go to your really it really just want to go to your really it really just want to go to your site or get your information you can you site or get your information you can you site or get your information you can you can tell you're a telecom guy and you can tell you're a telecom guy and you can tell you're a telecom guy and you can tell that your view of the world is can tell that your view of the world is can tell that your view of the world is really around Wireless really around Wireless really around Wireless yeah yeah yeah ETS I know and and very much biased ETS I know and and very much biased ETS I know and and very much biased towards that but you know you've got to towards that but you know you've got to towards that but you know you've got to have a specialty right yeah and I'm also have a specialty right yeah and I'm also have a specialty right yeah and I'm also a little bit conscious when I sit down a little bit conscious when I sit down a little bit conscious when I sit down in a room of in a room of in a room of execs from iot businesses and I say I'm execs from iot businesses and I say I'm execs from iot businesses and I say I'm the telecoms guy I'm often conscious the telecoms guy I'm often conscious the telecoms guy I'm often conscious that there's probably at least half the that there's probably at least half the that there's probably at least half the people in the room are more qualified as people in the room are more qualified as people in the room are more qualified as a as a telecoms guy than than I am so a as a telecoms guy than than I am so a as a telecoms guy than than I am so you know I've got to be a little bit you know I've got to be a little bit you know I've got to be a little bit cautious on that no I've got a masters cautious on that no I've got a masters cautious on that no I've got a masters and I worked at a mobile operator for a and I worked at a mobile operator for a and I worked at a mobile operator for a bit but yeah you've got to be you've got bit but yeah you've got to be you've got bit but yeah you've got to be you've got to be a bit wary there's probably phds to be a bit wary there's probably phds to be a bit wary there's probably phds in the room but you never know oh yeah in the room but you never know oh yeah in the room but you never know oh yeah but I I don't think phds necessarily I but I I don't think phds necessarily I but I I don't think phds necessarily I mean uh that they know more than you do mean uh that they know more than you do mean uh that they know more than you do just because of what you do right just because of what you do right just because of what you do right um and that's what I discovered what I um and that's what I discovered what I um and that's what I discovered what I mean you know quite honestly you could mean you know quite honestly you could mean you know quite honestly you could be a be a PhD in what you're doing

be a be a PhD in what you're doing be a be a PhD in what you're doing um you know you've you've done the you um you know you've you've done the you um you know you've you've done the you have the experience you've done the have the experience you've done the have the experience you've done the research you know the market your your research you know the market your your research you know the market your your domain expert I mean you know in fact domain expert I mean you know in fact domain expert I mean you know in fact you know you could probably teach a PhD you know you could probably teach a PhD you know you could probably teach a PhD a thing or two about iot so Steve brummer launched iot University Steve brummer launched iot University decades ago there you can be actually decades ago there you can be actually decades ago there you can be actually that's where surprising you today he's that's where surprising you today he's that's where surprising you today he's gonna award you your honorary PhD in iot gonna award you your honorary PhD in iot gonna award you your honorary PhD in iot there you go there you go there you go excellent to have I will um the excellent to have I will um the excellent to have I will um the graduation ceremony graduation ceremony graduation ceremony now that's not a I'd love to have that now that's not a I'd love to have that now that's not a I'd love to have that with you Matt that would be fun oh go ahead oh go ahead I said Rob are you telling me that last I said Rob are you telling me that last I said Rob are you telling me that last night I didn't have to eat by myself in night I didn't have to eat by myself in night I didn't have to eat by myself in Vegas I could have sat down with YouTube Vegas I could have sat down with YouTube Vegas I could have sat down with YouTube Knuckleheads before I got on home oh yep Knuckleheads before I got on home oh yep Knuckleheads before I got on home oh yep yep he's over in Venetian last night he's over in Venetian last night that's where I was oh man that's where I was oh man that's where I was oh man walked right past each other okay yes he did he just said that yes he

okay yes he did he just said that yes he did that out yeah yeah you know what did that out yeah yeah you know what did that out yeah yeah you know what just to give a shout out we all got a just to give a shout out we all got a just to give a shout out we all got a free meal thanks to our good friends at free meal thanks to our good friends at free meal thanks to our good friends at very going back to Matt's comment if you ever going back to Matt's comment if you ever find yourself in a room with Telecom find yourself in a room with Telecom find yourself in a room with Telecom phds know that you have the advantage phds know that you have the advantage phds know that you have the advantage that you could talk to people Matt they that you could talk to people Matt they that you could talk to people Matt they can't okay right because I've met lots of them right because I've met lots of them right I got I got 25 years in Telecom right I got I got 25 years in Telecom right I got I got 25 years in Telecom math uh with Erickson math uh with Erickson math uh with Erickson um so phds were all always the subject um so phds were all always the subject um so phds were all always the subject matter experts in algorithms and models matter experts in algorithms and models matter experts in algorithms and models and uh Power amplifiers so Hardware and uh Power amplifiers so Hardware and uh Power amplifiers so Hardware Designs and you know they were fabulous Designs and you know they were fabulous Designs and you know they were fabulous at doing that but when you when you talk at doing that but when you when you talk at doing that but when you when you talk about the whole Telecom field about the whole Telecom field about the whole Telecom field um I much rather give you a PhD in um I much rather give you a PhD in um I much rather give you a PhD in Telecom right because you have the full Telecom right because you have the full Telecom right because you have the full View View View it's true it does get very Niche very it's true it does get very Niche very it's true it does get very Niche very quickly when you start getting into it quickly when you start getting into it quickly when you start getting into it doing phds right and and I you know doing phds right and and I you know doing phds right and and I you know sometimes I think about what the um what sometimes I think about what the um what sometimes I think about what the um what the differentiator is for for us as the differentiator is for for us as the differentiator is for for us as Alice you know what what makes release Alice you know what what makes release Alice you know what what makes release now this is really now this is really now this is really it's the ability to it's the ability to it's the ability to talk to people not even the ability but

talk to people not even the ability but talk to people not even the ability but it's the exposure to people right we we it's the exposure to people right we we it's the exposure to people right we we have this the luxury that we get in have this the luxury that we get in have this the luxury that we get in front of a lot more people than probably front of a lot more people than probably front of a lot more people than probably just about anybody else in the space so just about anybody else in the space so just about anybody else in the space so it's nothing special about the the skill it's nothing special about the the skill it's nothing special about the the skill set or anything like that it's it's more set or anything like that it's it's more set or anything like that it's it's more just we've got the exposure and we can just we've got the exposure and we can just we've got the exposure and we can have more conversations with more people have more conversations with more people have more conversations with more people and therefore you kind of get a a fire and therefore you kind of get a a fire and therefore you kind of get a a fire hose worth of of uh of information hose worth of of uh of information hose worth of of uh of information spewed at you and you can you know if spewed at you and you can you know if spewed at you and you can you know if you can boil that down into something you can boil that down into something you can boil that down into something that's that that's useful then that's um that's that that's useful then that's um that's that that's useful then that's um that's great but but really it's just that's great but but really it's just that's great but but really it's just the exposure to uh to everyone the exposure to uh to everyone the exposure to uh to everyone um you know I'm I'm lucky to be doing um you know I'm I'm lucky to be doing um you know I'm I'm lucky to be doing this job I like it very much this job I like it very much this job I like it very much yeah yeah yeah there you go awesome that's awesome you there you go awesome that's awesome you there you go awesome that's awesome you know the uh being that uh I mean it's know the uh being that uh I mean it's know the uh being that uh I mean it's just funny I keep thinking about like oh just funny I keep thinking about like oh just funny I keep thinking about like oh I've been in a job for two days but you I've been in a job for two days but you I've been in a job for two days but you know spending spending time with you know spending spending time with you know spending spending time with you know in a room full of people where you know in a room full of people where you know in a room full of people where you know you're trying to figure out like know you're trying to figure out like know you're trying to figure out like what does this person do you know like what does this person do you know like what does this person do you know like what's the deal with this Hardware or what's the deal with this Hardware or what's the deal with this Hardware or this software this middleware this this software this middleware this this software this middleware this integrator and I appreciate very much integrator and I appreciate very much integrator and I appreciate very much um being there in person because you get um being there in person because you get um being there in person because you get to you get to like properly read these to you get to like properly read these to you get to like properly read these people especially when you ask a tough people especially when you ask a tough people especially when you ask a tough question you know like there's no the question you know like there's no the question you know like there's no the the the the the mechanism you the the the the mechanism you the the the the mechanism you know it's not there to protect them half know it's not there to protect them half know it's not there to protect them half of the time so yeah and I imagine you of the time so yeah and I imagine you of the time so yeah and I imagine you know you know like this you know this is know you know like this you know this is know you know like this you know this is in your in your wheelhouse uh Matt and in your in your wheelhouse uh Matt and in your in your wheelhouse uh Matt and um and Leonard uh that's how you will um and Leonard uh that's how you will um and Leonard uh that's how you will report out on stuff right you know like report out on stuff right you know like report out on stuff right you know like because you you you it's nuanced once

because you you you it's nuanced once because you you you it's nuanced once you come back uh you know with research you come back uh you know with research you come back uh you know with research because you talk to these people uh in because you talk to these people uh in because you talk to these people uh in person and I think is is valuable so I I person and I think is is valuable so I I person and I think is is valuable so I I appreciate what you guys uh right for appreciate what you guys uh right for appreciate what you guys uh right for you know all of us Knuckleheads to go you know all of us Knuckleheads to go you know all of us Knuckleheads to go out there and uh become less Dumber out there and uh become less Dumber out there and uh become less Dumber every day I know I've been traveling I've been I know I've been traveling I've been traveling I've been uh doing some traveling I've been uh doing some traveling I've been uh doing some speaking events and I was actually in uh speaking events and I was actually in uh speaking events and I was actually in uh Dallas uh I think last week visiting Dallas uh I think last week visiting Dallas uh I think last week visiting some Partners pretty fun yeah awesome some Partners pretty fun yeah awesome some Partners pretty fun yeah awesome what speaking are you doing what events what speaking are you doing what events what speaking are you doing what events are you talking at are you talking at are you talking at um I have one next week at advantec over um I have one next week at advantec over um I have one next week at advantec over in Atlanta we're doing I'm speaking on in Atlanta we're doing I'm speaking on in Atlanta we're doing I'm speaking on iot platforms and on edge Computing so iot platforms and on edge Computing so iot platforms and on edge Computing so that'll be a fun one and then um middle that'll be a fun one and then um middle that'll be a fun one and then um middle June ume East I'm on a panel I think June ume East I'm on a panel I think June ume East I'm on a panel I think we're talking about Ai and how that's we're talking about Ai and how that's we're talking about Ai and how that's impacting jobs in the factory and impacting jobs in the factory and impacting jobs in the factory and changing them so some fun topics look at

changing them so some fun topics look at changing them so some fun topics look at you thriving yeah thank you totally I you thriving yeah thank you totally I you thriving yeah thank you totally I thought about that you know we met thought about that you know we met thought about that you know we met remember in clubhouse about two years remember in clubhouse about two years remember in clubhouse about two years ago and you were in Michigan and yeah ago and you were in Michigan and yeah ago and you were in Michigan and yeah when you moved to Austin it's like you when you moved to Austin it's like you when you moved to Austin it's like you took off yeah thank you it's been fun I took off yeah thank you it's been fun I took off yeah thank you it's been fun I I really like Austin and I've met so I really like Austin and I've met so I really like Austin and I've met so many cool people like everyone here many cool people like everyone here many cool people like everyone here right I think that's I think that met right I think that's I think that met right I think that's I think that met half the people here on clubhouse half the people here on clubhouse half the people here on clubhouse actually between you and Rob and Leonard actually between you and Rob and Leonard actually between you and Rob and Leonard and it's uh yeah it's been fun Ryan do and it's uh yeah it's been fun Ryan do and it's uh yeah it's been fun Ryan do you steal safety glasses from a client you steal safety glasses from a client you steal safety glasses from a client site what's what's going on these aren't fashionable these aren't fashionable okay so they're dark they're dark okay so they're dark they're dark okay so they're dark they're dark because of the hat so I thought they because of the hat so I thought they because of the hat so I thought they were stolen safety glasses yeah I got were stolen safety glasses yeah I got were stolen safety glasses yeah I got this at a Lenovo event it was it was a this at a Lenovo event it was it was a this at a Lenovo event it was it was a fun one they have like an innovators fun one they have like an innovators fun one they have like an innovators Forum I'm always a big sucker for the Forum I'm always a big sucker for the Forum I'm always a big sucker for the swag right so any kind of hats stuff swag right so any kind of hats stuff swag right so any kind of hats stuff like that swag soccer yeah yeah oh my god wow so Matt what was the I oh my god wow so Matt what was the I remember recently you wrote something remember recently you wrote something remember recently you wrote something about was it hyperscale iot or hyper no about was it hyperscale iot or hyper no about was it hyperscale iot or hyper no hyperscale Telecom or what was that hyperscale Telecom or what was that hyperscale Telecom or what was that uh this was shamelessly stealing the uh this was shamelessly stealing the uh this was shamelessly stealing the hyperscale uh term which obviously is hyperscale uh term which obviously is hyperscale uh term which obviously is associated with Cloud providers and and associated with Cloud providers and and associated with Cloud providers and and trying to apply it to uh my bit of iot trying to apply it to uh my bit of iot trying to apply it to uh my bit of iot which is the the telecoms player so yeah which is the the telecoms player so yeah which is the the telecoms player so yeah I've been sort of banging on about that I've been sort of banging on about that I've been sort of banging on about that idea of hyperscale connectivity for for idea of hyperscale connectivity for for idea of hyperscale connectivity for for a while

a while a while and really it's the um it's this idea and really it's the um it's this idea and really it's the um it's this idea that sorry I'm about to go into that sorry I'm about to go into that sorry I'm about to go into presentation mode and start talking like presentation mode and start talking like presentation mode and start talking like I'm I'm actually doing a webinar or I'm I'm actually doing a webinar or I'm I'm actually doing a webinar or something like that right if I try and something like that right if I try and something like that right if I try and hold off on on going into the presenter hold off on on going into the presenter hold off on on going into the presenter mode but the the the point of it is mode but the the the point of it is mode but the the the point of it is you've got certain situations where it you've got certain situations where it you've got certain situations where it it's just not scalable to to address iot it's just not scalable to to address iot it's just not scalable to to address iot customers in the same way that that customers in the same way that that customers in the same way that that Telco would have addressed mobile phone Telco would have addressed mobile phone Telco would have addressed mobile phone or Broadband Newsies or whatever just or Broadband Newsies or whatever just or Broadband Newsies or whatever just because the the revenue generated is an because the the revenue generated is an because the the revenue generated is an order of magnitude lower and we're order of magnitude lower and we're order of magnitude lower and we're decided to talk about things like one decided to talk about things like one decided to talk about things like one dollar iot where dollar iot where dollar iot where um devices generating no more than a um devices generating no more than a um devices generating no more than a dollar a year and in fact that might dollar a year and in fact that might dollar a year and in fact that might even be generous I was sat in with a even be generous I was sat in with a even be generous I was sat in with a client the other the other day and they client the other the other day and they client the other the other day and they were talking about you know 20 cents a were talking about you know 20 cents a were talking about you know 20 cents a year for some of the some of the big year for some of the some of the big year for some of the some of the big contracts it's nuts and you can't contracts it's nuts and you can't contracts it's nuts and you can't support that on Legacy platforms on support that on Legacy platforms on support that on Legacy platforms on Legacy processes on you know paying Legacy processes on you know paying Legacy processes on you know paying somebody somebody somebody six figure salary to go out and and and six figure salary to go out and and and six figure salary to go out and and and sell direct to a customer it's got to be sell direct to a customer it's got to be sell direct to a customer it's got to be automated and you've got to adopt some automated and you've got to adopt some automated and you've got to adopt some of the same processes that someone like of the same processes that someone like of the same processes that someone like uh an AWS would do or Microsoft would do uh an AWS would do or Microsoft would do uh an AWS would do or Microsoft would do right how much would you need to be right how much would you need to be right how much would you need to be spending with AWS before you actually spending with AWS before you actually spending with AWS before you actually got a sales person come and knock on got a sales person come and knock on got a sales person come and knock on your door I don't know it's got to be your door I don't know it's got to be your door I don't know it's got to be it's got to be multiple tens of millions it's got to be multiple tens of millions it's got to be multiple tens of millions I would have thought otherwise it's all I would have thought otherwise it's all I would have thought otherwise it's all virtually so it's that kind of a dynamic virtually so it's that kind of a dynamic virtually so it's that kind of a dynamic I mean partly it's software partly it's I mean partly it's software partly it's I mean partly it's software partly it's just process

just process just process um but that's uh that's a hot topic for um but that's uh that's a hot topic for um but that's uh that's a hot topic for us yeah us yeah us yeah you know that's a good point but you you know that's a good point but you you know that's a good point but you know Rob know Rob know Rob I want to see like also what your I want to see like also what your I want to see like also what your reaction is you know like part part of reaction is you know like part part of reaction is you know like part part of this is reporting so if you're a Telco this is reporting so if you're a Telco this is reporting so if you're a Telco and you're activating mobile devices you and you're activating mobile devices you and you're activating mobile devices you know with high rpu but and they have SIM know with high rpu but and they have SIM know with high rpu but and they have SIM cards and then these iot thingies have cards and then these iot thingies have cards and then these iot thingies have SIM cards and that's how you report SIM cards and that's how you report SIM cards and that's how you report you're reporting connections right you're reporting connections right you're reporting connections right that's what we were doing back in the that's what we were doing back in the that's what we were doing back in the day we have connections now depending day we have connections now depending day we have connections now depending who you were pitching to I wouldn't tell who you were pitching to I wouldn't tell who you were pitching to I wouldn't tell you that uh you know that a hundred of you that uh you know that a hundred of you that uh you know that a hundred of the Thousand connections are 20 cents a the Thousand connections are 20 cents a the Thousand connections are 20 cents a year and I paid a team of six sc's to year and I paid a team of six sc's to year and I paid a team of six sc's to close this deal and they have to trap close this deal and they have to trap close this deal and they have to trap and by the time you you crunch the and by the time you you crunch the and by the time you you crunch the numbers you're like this was a waste of numbers you're like this was a waste of numbers you're like this was a waste of freaking time and money but reporting freaking time and money but reporting freaking time and money but reporting connections right we got X connections connections right we got X connections connections right we got X connections just don't ask me about the artboard just don't ask me about the artboard just don't ask me about the artboard yeah and yeah and yeah and the two go the two kind of go hand in the two go the two kind of go hand in the two go the two kind of go hand in hand though right you can't report one hand though right you can't report one hand though right you can't report one without reporting the other and and then without reporting the other and and then without reporting the other and and then it starts looking bad for you to have it starts looking bad for you to have it starts looking bad for you to have this massive Apu decline because this massive Apu decline because this massive Apu decline because effectively your connection numbers are effectively your connection numbers are effectively your connection numbers are pretty much static for for handset users pretty much static for for handset users pretty much static for for handset users and and so it starts eating into your and and so it starts eating into your and and so it starts eating into your into your average revenue connection and into your average revenue connection and into your average revenue connection and that starts looking bad for the that starts looking bad for the that starts looking bad for the shareholders and and then the Share shareholders and and then the Share shareholders and and then the Share value goes down and you know it it's value goes down and you know it it's value goes down and you know it it's just it's kind of messy right just it's kind of messy right just it's kind of messy right um yeah and and so it's better if you um yeah and and so it's better if you um yeah and and so it's better if you can almost better if you can keep those

can almost better if you can keep those can almost better if you can keep those those things separate and plus you can those things separate and plus you can those things separate and plus you can put in place a a set of different put in place a a set of different put in place a a set of different processes and so on for for the iot bit processes and so on for for the iot bit processes and so on for for the iot bit of the business and report in a of the business and report in a of the business and report in a different way and and so on we see a bit different way and and so on we see a bit different way and and so on we see a bit of that you know our friends at once of that you know our friends at once of that you know our friends at once big chunk owned by Deutsche Telecom and big chunk owned by Deutsche Telecom and big chunk owned by Deutsche Telecom and they they do their low-cost low touch they they do their low-cost low touch they they do their low-cost low touch prepaid onboarding or all of that that prepaid onboarding or all of that that prepaid onboarding or all of that that good stuff and and they're kept or good stuff and and they're kept or good stuff and and they're kept or they're allowed to set up their own they're allowed to set up their own they're allowed to set up their own processes and platforms and all that all processes and platforms and all that all processes and platforms and all that all that good stuff so you know it it it's that good stuff so you know it it it's that good stuff so you know it it it's probably uh we're probably kind of on probably uh we're probably kind of on probably uh we're probably kind of on the cusp of people realizing um maybe the cusp of people realizing um maybe the cusp of people realizing um maybe this works in a different way maybe I this works in a different way maybe I this works in a different way maybe I need to farm this out to to a different need to farm this out to to a different need to farm this out to to a different bit of the business yeah that's how I bit of the business yeah that's how I bit of the business yeah that's how I feel feel feel that's interesting yeah because you're that's interesting yeah because you're that's interesting yeah because you're right some you talk those small numbers right some you talk those small numbers right some you talk those small numbers and you might just say actually I and you might just say actually I and you might just say actually I recommend that you open a lemonade stand recommend that you open a lemonade stand recommend that you open a lemonade stand and and and you'll make more money this was a really interesting angle this was a really interesting angle right yeah I haven't talked so much right yeah I haven't talked so much right yeah I haven't talked so much about Matt about Matt about Matt NRI Coffee Talk NRI Coffee Talk NRI Coffee Talk um this you know the comparison to um this you know the comparison to um this you know the comparison to David's point David's point David's point stem stem cards in both cases right the stem stem cards in both cases right the stem stem cards in both cases right the iot devices and and for people devices iot devices and and for people devices iot devices and and for people devices used by people and you know how do they used by people and you know how do they used by people and you know how do they what what do they generate in terms of what what do they generate in terms of what what do they generate in terms of traffic and in terms of Revenue right traffic and in terms of Revenue right traffic and in terms of Revenue right um this is quite interesting um this is quite interesting um this is quite interesting because especially since we we were because especially since we we were because especially since we we were talking for years and years about how talking for years and years about how talking for years and years about how ready iot was yet the cost of technology

ready iot was yet the cost of technology ready iot was yet the cost of technology to go into the sensors was so high that to go into the sensors was so high that to go into the sensors was so high that was totally prohibitive for Mass was totally prohibitive for Mass was totally prohibitive for Mass deployment yeah you're completing him and and that yeah you're completing him and and that evolves and we we talk about something evolves and we we talk about something evolves and we we talk about something called thin iot stack where you've got called thin iot stack where you've got called thin iot stack where you've got now a set of Technologies which are much now a set of Technologies which are much now a set of Technologies which are much more appropriate for constrained more appropriate for constrained more appropriate for constrained environments constrained battery life environments constrained battery life environments constrained battery life strain processor you've got uh OS is strain processor you've got uh OS is strain processor you've got uh OS is that much more appropriate you've got that much more appropriate you've got that much more appropriate you've got protocols that are much more appropriate protocols that are much more appropriate protocols that are much more appropriate and it kind of feels like we got to a and it kind of feels like we got to a and it kind of feels like we got to a point where you the the there's a point where you the the there's a point where you the the there's a stack that's much more widely adopted or stack that's much more widely adopted or stack that's much more widely adopted or ready to be widely adopted that's just ready to be widely adopted that's just ready to be widely adopted that's just iot specific rather than having to iot specific rather than having to iot specific rather than having to piggyback on a bunch of other things piggyback on a bunch of other things piggyback on a bunch of other things that weren't really designed for it and that weren't really designed for it and that weren't really designed for it and um the the irony is that that that's um the the irony is that that that's um the the irony is that that that's popped up just at the point where popped up just at the point where popped up just at the point where everyone's starting to get a little bit everyone's starting to get a little bit everyone's starting to get a little bit cynical about about iot full stop uh you cynical about about iot full stop uh you cynical about about iot full stop uh you know would you would you credit it yeah know would you would you credit it yeah know would you would you credit it yeah like what were we thinking like what were we thinking like what were we thinking oh oh oh the well I I gotta jump off but you know the well I I gotta jump off but you know the well I I gotta jump off but you know like it's also a lot of these a lot of like it's also a lot of these a lot of like it's also a lot of these a lot of these things where you know we're these things where you know we're these things where you know we're working fine in a controlled environment working fine in a controlled environment working fine in a controlled environment and right there was there weren't these and right there was there weren't these and right there was there weren't these massive deployments to learn what really massive deployments to learn what really massive deployments to learn what really happens in the field but I think see happens in the field but I think see happens in the field but I think see like Fleet Tracking and whatever that like Fleet Tracking and whatever that like Fleet Tracking and whatever that means right but like a lot of learnings means right but like a lot of learnings means right but like a lot of learnings came from that because you had you know came from that because you had you know came from that because you had you know in this situation we pretty much always in this situation we pretty much always in this situation we pretty much always had power because you're you know you're had power because you're you know you're had power because you're you know you're tracking a vehicle so power was in a uh

tracking a vehicle so power was in a uh tracking a vehicle so power was in a uh an issue an issue an issue but you know I think as an industry we but you know I think as an industry we but you know I think as an industry we picked up so much from what works in picked up so much from what works in picked up so much from what works in terms of you know like when do you need terms of you know like when do you need terms of you know like when do you need which band or or which sensor and you which band or or which sensor and you which band or or which sensor and you know which of these things are going to know which of these things are going to know which of these things are going to withstand the environment uh that we're withstand the environment uh that we're withstand the environment uh that we're putting them in and uh and a lot of putting them in and uh and a lot of putting them in and uh and a lot of these components started being reused these components started being reused these components started being reused which was driving the price of the which was driving the price of the which was driving the price of the sensors down sensors down sensors down uh but but there was such a gap between uh but but there was such a gap between uh but but there was such a gap between again like the the things that we were again like the the things that we were again like the the things that we were doing with a fleet iot and things like doing with a fleet iot and things like doing with a fleet iot and things like Matt just talked about like well there's Matt just talked about like well there's Matt just talked about like well there's this application and uh you know I need this application and uh you know I need this application and uh you know I need how do I optimize for battery uh how do I optimize for battery uh how do I optimize for battery uh consumption or we cannot do that well consumption or we cannot do that well consumption or we cannot do that well works on narrowband iot well that's works on narrowband iot well that's works on narrowband iot well that's great but I have the wrong band and you great but I have the wrong band and you great but I have the wrong band and you know it's just a lot of things that know it's just a lot of things that know it's just a lot of things that exist but we're just not scaling because exist but we're just not scaling because exist but we're just not scaling because they were not being put out there as they were not being put out there as they were not being put out there as much as we we would like to and uh much as we we would like to and uh much as we we would like to and uh that's I don't know that's just that's that's I don't know that's just that's that's I don't know that's just that's just how it is I guess just how it is I guess just how it is I guess yeah yeah yeah yeah all right yeah all right yeah all right I think there's another aspect of I mean I think there's another aspect of I mean I think there's another aspect of I mean got a drop oh you gotta take off yeah hey Mark how's it going yeah good good hey Mark how's it going yeah good good good learning from what you were no look good learning from what you were no look good learning from what you were no look like a summary like a summary like a summary it's great stuff right oh we lost Andrea

it's great stuff right oh we lost Andrea it's great stuff right oh we lost Andrea too yep all right see this happens man too yep all right see this happens man too yep all right see this happens man this is how I'm smelling bad or this is how I'm smelling bad or this is how I'm smelling bad or something or yeah don't try not to take something or yeah don't try not to take something or yeah don't try not to take it first anymore I'm sure yeah but it was it was great seeing you yeah but it was it was great seeing you Matt at uh at uh iot stars and um you Matt at uh at uh iot stars and um you Matt at uh at uh iot stars and um you know that was a great event know that was a great event know that was a great event um that and it's great to have a chance um that and it's great to have a chance um that and it's great to have a chance to talk with you here on the show and to talk with you here on the show and to talk with you here on the show and um you know um I wanted to touch on um you know um I wanted to touch on um you know um I wanted to touch on something that you posted recently that something that you posted recently that something that you posted recently that I think kind of went viral was it's I think kind of went viral was it's I think kind of went viral was it's about the um iot security um act I I don't know what what is it um act I I don't know what what is it let me see here the product security and let me see here the product security and let me see here the product security and Telecommunications infrastructure Act Telecommunications infrastructure Act Telecommunications infrastructure Act yeah and so uh you know we you and I yeah and so uh you know we you and I yeah and so uh you know we you and I went back and forth a little there went back and forth a little there went back and forth a little there and you stated stop people doing really and you stated stop people doing really and you stated stop people doing really stupid stuff so you want to share some stupid stuff so you want to share some stupid stuff so you want to share some of um what inspired you to make that of um what inspired you to make that of um what inspired you to make that statement statement statement well there's been a a little flurry of well there's been a a little flurry of well there's been a a little flurry of Regulation around uh iot specifically Regulation around uh iot specifically Regulation around uh iot specifically normally just iot security related normally just iot security related normally just iot security related related stuff so there's some EU related stuff so there's some EU related stuff so there's some EU regulations coming or sort of in the in regulations coming or sort of in the in regulations coming or sort of in the in the pipeline same in the US but the the the pipeline same in the US but the the the pipeline same in the US but the the one I was talking about specifically was one I was talking about specifically was one I was talking about specifically was the UK but actually mostly they look the UK but actually mostly they look the UK but actually mostly they look quite similar in terms of what what quite similar in terms of what what quite similar in terms of what what they're trying to achieve and what

they're trying to achieve and what they're trying to achieve and what they're trying to achieve actually is they're trying to achieve actually is they're trying to achieve actually is relatively modest but as I described it relatively modest but as I described it relatively modest but as I described it in my response to the the first priority in my response to the the first priority in my response to the the first priority is stop people doing really stupid stuff is stop people doing really stupid stuff is stop people doing really stupid stuff and then kind of maybe move on from and then kind of maybe move on from and then kind of maybe move on from there and the really stupid stuff there and the really stupid stuff there and the really stupid stuff they're trying to prevent them from they're trying to prevent them from they're trying to prevent them from doing is things like hard-coded doing is things like hard-coded doing is things like hard-coded passwords or not maintaining security passwords or not maintaining security passwords or not maintaining security patches or uh what else we've got not patches or uh what else we've got not patches or uh what else we've got not having any mechanism for reporting uh having any mechanism for reporting uh having any mechanism for reporting uh any kind of security issues right so any kind of security issues right so any kind of security issues right so companies companies companies ought to have that kind of stuff and ought to have that kind of stuff and ought to have that kind of stuff and that's the kind of thing the the focus that's the kind of thing the the focus that's the kind of thing the the focus is on in terms of the security at the is on in terms of the security at the is on in terms of the security at the moment not specifying any protocols need moment not specifying any protocols need moment not specifying any protocols need to be used or pretty much anything to be used or pretty much anything to be used or pretty much anything technical it's all very much sort of technical it's all very much sort of technical it's all very much sort of administrative really uh and that's administrative really uh and that's administrative really uh and that's better than nothing I I'd say and it better than nothing I I'd say and it better than nothing I I'd say and it probably goes a long way to tackling a probably goes a long way to tackling a probably goes a long way to tackling a lot of the problem yeah it's mostly lot of the problem yeah it's mostly lot of the problem yeah it's mostly laziness that causes the security issues laziness that causes the security issues laziness that causes the security issues I would I would have said so right right I would I would have said so right right I would I would have said so right right and you know what I thought was really and you know what I thought was really and you know what I thought was really interesting is the reactions that you interesting is the reactions that you interesting is the reactions that you saw in your post uh um saw in your post uh um saw in your post uh um you you know a lot of it was geared you you know a lot of it was geared you you know a lot of it was geared toward the end user toward the end user toward the end user um versus the vendor right but I think um versus the vendor right but I think um versus the vendor right but I think the vendor has a a role in all of this the vendor has a a role in all of this the vendor has a a role in all of this right I mean for them to allow default right I mean for them to allow default right I mean for them to allow default passwords and not go the extra step of passwords and not go the extra step of passwords and not go the extra step of of of of um you know making some better practices um you know making some better practices um you know making some better practices uh you know enforced in the field right uh you know enforced in the field right uh you know enforced in the field right through their products I think that

through their products I think that through their products I think that that's a that's another that's a that's another that's a that's another um deficiency and contributor to the um deficiency and contributor to the um deficiency and contributor to the security issue right but I think you security issue right but I think you security issue right but I think you know I kind of sensed into dialogue in know I kind of sensed into dialogue in know I kind of sensed into dialogue in your in that that thread that folks are your in that that thread that folks are your in that that thread that folks are still thinking a little too much and still thinking a little too much and still thinking a little too much and placing too much blame on the end user placing too much blame on the end user placing too much blame on the end user right might just be generally quite right might just be generally quite right might just be generally quite honestly ignorant maybe not dumb but you honestly ignorant maybe not dumb but you honestly ignorant maybe not dumb but you know to a security expert what they uh know to a security expert what they uh know to a security expert what they uh have either neglected or haven't done have either neglected or haven't done have either neglected or haven't done does seem stupid right or or dumb and um does seem stupid right or or dumb and um does seem stupid right or or dumb and um you know you know you know um um um I mean generally they can only work I mean generally they can only work I mean generally they can only work within the parameters of the security within the parameters of the security within the parameters of the security that's that that's provided within the that's that that's provided within the that's that that's provided within the device that they they've got I mean device that they they've got I mean device that they they've got I mean there's some things that end users will there's some things that end users will there's some things that end users will do that perhaps they shouldn't but but do that perhaps they shouldn't but but do that perhaps they shouldn't but but more or less it's a systemic issue with more or less it's a systemic issue with more or less it's a systemic issue with uh with whatever device that the uh with whatever device that the uh with whatever device that the deploying I would have thought I mean deploying I would have thought I mean deploying I would have thought I mean they don't try and set themselves up for they don't try and set themselves up for they don't try and set themselves up for a man in the middle attack so whatever a man in the middle attack so whatever a man in the middle attack so whatever it's it it happens because of weaknesses it's it it happens because of weaknesses it's it it happens because of weaknesses on the on the devices or or the network on the on the devices or or the network on the on the devices or or the network but then they may be responsible but you but then they may be responsible but you but then they may be responsible but you know you've got to put the uh the know you've got to put the uh the know you've got to put the uh the emphasis on the um on the on the vendors emphasis on the um on the on the vendors emphasis on the um on the on the vendors to to sort out the issues really rather to to sort out the issues really rather to to sort out the issues really rather than consume this because you know you than consume this because you know you than consume this because you know you can't get it can't get it can't get it but but Matt is it what what vendor is but but Matt is it what what vendor is but but Matt is it what what vendor is it the Qualcomm is it the quick tell is

it the Qualcomm is it the quick tell is it the Qualcomm is it the quick tell is it the device maker it you know you got it the device maker it you know you got it the device maker it you know you got a lot of people in that string that a lot of people in that string that a lot of people in that string that brings the end user device to Market so brings the end user device to Market so brings the end user device to Market so the prop you know we have a big problem the prop you know we have a big problem the prop you know we have a big problem in the sense that Qualcomm may get in the sense that Qualcomm may get in the sense that Qualcomm may get firmware updates to the module firmware updates to the module firmware updates to the module manufacturer with the module manufacturer with the module manufacturer with the module manufacturer doesn't provide it to the manufacturer doesn't provide it to the manufacturer doesn't provide it to the odm that built the unit six months ago odm that built the unit six months ago odm that built the unit six months ago so there's a lot of communication issues so there's a lot of communication issues so there's a lot of communication issues on top of it so the finger pointing on top of it so the finger pointing on top of it so the finger pointing starts and it just goes from there starts and it just goes from there starts and it just goes from there yeah yeah completely I mean ultimately yeah yeah completely I mean ultimately yeah yeah completely I mean ultimately it's it's the responsibility of whoever it's it's the responsibility of whoever it's it's the responsibility of whoever sells the the product to the end user I sells the the product to the end user I sells the the product to the end user I mean it's like it's going well but yeah mean it's like it's going well but yeah mean it's like it's going well but yeah there right I bought it from there right I bought it from there right I bought it from distribution is it Arrow or Avnet or or distribution is it Arrow or Avnet or or distribution is it Arrow or Avnet or or TV synix's responsibility is it my TV synix's responsibility is it my TV synix's responsibility is it my responsibility as the software vendor or responsibility as the software vendor or responsibility as the software vendor or the you know I mean there's a you can the you know I mean there's a you can the you know I mean there's a you can point fingers till the cows come home point fingers till the cows come home point fingers till the cows come home for that kind of stop too so for that kind of stop too so for that kind of stop too so um and and I'm working with two security um and and I'm working with two security um and and I'm working with two security companies right now that are looking at companies right now that are looking at companies right now that are looking at two you know two different completely two you know two different completely two you know two different completely different approaches to trying to figure different approaches to trying to figure different approaches to trying to figure out this iot device ID management out this iot device ID management out this iot device ID management security piece and then you add pki security piece and then you add pki security piece and then you add pki stuff into the middle of it and you know stuff into the middle of it and you know stuff into the middle of it and you know CA related products and you you look at CA related products and you you look at CA related products and you you look at a kadowski and they turn around and go a kadowski and they turn around and go a kadowski and they turn around and go all you need is a certificate and manage all you need is a certificate and manage all you need is a certificate and manage the certificates and you're fine that the certificates and you're fine that the certificates and you're fine that ain't true either

ain't true either ain't true either we need more companies that help we need more companies that help we need more companies that help um companies who wants to build iot um companies who wants to build iot um companies who wants to build iot products so we need companies who help products so we need companies who help products so we need companies who help these companies to succeed these companies to succeed these companies to succeed and and yeah and and the process or the and and yeah and and the process or the and and yeah and and the process or the workflow that you explain workflow that you explain workflow that you explain right now right it's it's not um it's right now right it's it's not um it's right now right it's it's not um it's not gonna help uh no Steve so if you're not gonna help uh no Steve so if you're not gonna help uh no Steve so if you're if your partner are these companies that if your partner are these companies that if your partner are these companies that you mentioned they are not going to help you mentioned they are not going to help you mentioned they are not going to help you to succeed on your product in the you to succeed on your product in the you to succeed on your product in the long term there will be more companies long term there will be more companies long term there will be more companies that educate and help to succeed unless that educate and help to succeed unless that educate and help to succeed unless you know get pieces of the puzzle and you know get pieces of the puzzle and you know get pieces of the puzzle and try to fix everything yourself because try to fix everything yourself because try to fix everything yourself because when when the crap hits the fan at an when when the crap hits the fan at an when when the crap hits the fan at an end user who has been hacked in some way end user who has been hacked in some way end user who has been hacked in some way shape or form with thousands of asset shape or form with thousands of asset shape or form with thousands of asset trackers the who's the first person trackers the who's the first person trackers the who's the first person you're blaming the person that you're blaming the person that you're blaming the person that integrated it into your system yep but integrated it into your system yep but integrated it into your system yep but it's not their response it may not be it's not their response it may not be it's not their response it may not be video information that they even know video information that they even know video information that they even know about about about so it's a it is a unbelievable question so it's a it is a unbelievable question so it's a it is a unbelievable question it's another example of a of a service it's another example of a of a service it's another example of a of a service and they used to be provided as a as a and they used to be provided as a as a and they used to be provided as a as a managed service in some way right it managed service in some way right it managed service in some way right it creates an opportunity like you said creates an opportunity like you said creates an opportunity like you said there is surely an opportunity there for there is surely an opportunity there for there is surely an opportunity there for a service domain which sits around a service domain which sits around a service domain which sits around security and providing that security and security and providing that security and security and providing that security and offering iot security as a service to offering iot security as a service to offering iot security as a service to whichever whichever company is is

whichever whichever company is is whichever whichever company is is building because you know I don't know building because you know I don't know building because you know I don't know whether your your experience has been whether your your experience has been whether your your experience has been the same but people I talked to who are the same but people I talked to who are the same but people I talked to who are who are who are who are um uh makers right Building Product the um uh makers right Building Product the um uh makers right Building Product the last thing they're thinking about is last thing they're thinking about is last thing they're thinking about is security or maybe not the last but you security or maybe not the last but you security or maybe not the last but you know item 168 on the list is security is know item 168 on the list is security is know item 168 on the list is security is somewhere below what color it could be somewhere below what color it could be somewhere below what color it could be and and you know what I want the and and you know what I want the and and you know what I want the packaging to look like right packaging to look like right packaging to look like right surely it's it's preferable to to get surely it's it's preferable to to get surely it's it's preferable to to get somebody into to to to support on on somebody into to to to support on on somebody into to to to support on on that right because you know not that right because you know not that right because you know not everybody can be experts on the on this everybody can be experts on the on this everybody can be experts on the on this stuff it's um stuff it's um stuff it's um yeah usually it's uh Engineers it's like yeah usually it's uh Engineers it's like yeah usually it's uh Engineers it's like I can do this uh next weekend so I can I can do this uh next weekend so I can I can do this uh next weekend so I can solve this I can fix this problem next solve this I can fix this problem next solve this I can fix this problem next weekend right so I will have some time weekend right so I will have some time weekend right so I will have some time available but yeah then when when pocs available but yeah then when when pocs available but yeah then when when pocs get more serious and they get into get more serious and they get into get more serious and they get into production then yeah they realize that production then yeah they realize that production then yeah they realize that yeah you cannot fix these problems or yeah you cannot fix these problems or yeah you cannot fix these problems or whatever we can no I see these every day whatever we can no I see these every day whatever we can no I see these every day on on updating the software on devices on on updating the software on devices on on updating the software on devices right so more and more companies realize right so more and more companies realize right so more and more companies realize that they will need to update the that they will need to update the that they will need to update the software of their devices and and update software of their devices and and update software of their devices and and update the operating system of their devices it the operating system of their devices it the operating system of their devices it was funny I I met someone who told me was funny I I met someone who told me was funny I I met someone who told me that they don't need to update on that they don't need to update on that they don't need to update on Industrial aod they don't need to update Industrial aod they don't need to update Industrial aod they don't need to update the software the operating system of the software the operating system of the software the operating system of their of their Edge devices when I say their of their Edge devices when I say their of their Edge devices when I say that okay so how old is your operating that okay so how old is your operating that okay so how old is your operating system it's uh it's like he told me like system it's uh it's like he told me like system it's uh it's like he told me like something like 80 year olds like okay something like 80 year olds like okay something like 80 year olds like okay fantastic so you have like an

fantastic so you have like an fantastic so you have like an eight-year-old operating system and eight-year-old operating system and eight-year-old operating system and applications running on the top I've applications running on the top I've applications running on the top I've seen Windows XP on the platform I I seen Windows XP on the platform I I seen Windows XP on the platform I I still see Windows XP in the player for still see Windows XP in the player for still see Windows XP in the player for they'll have like traceability solution they'll have like traceability solution they'll have like traceability solution reading a barcode into an Excel reading a barcode into an Excel reading a barcode into an Excel spreadsheet and that's it I'm like what spreadsheet and that's it I'm like what spreadsheet and that's it I'm like what no that's not how you do this it's not no that's not how you do this it's not no that's not how you do this it's not okay you can welcome to 2033. oh okay you can welcome to 2033. oh okay you can welcome to 2033. oh my God my God my God yeah yeah and and Matt it's interesting yeah yeah and and Matt it's interesting yeah yeah and and Matt it's interesting because I'm not sure governmental because I'm not sure governmental because I'm not sure governmental agencies that are coming out with these agencies that are coming out with these agencies that are coming out with these new regulations and we have that same new regulations and we have that same new regulations and we have that same thing in the supply chain regulations thing in the supply chain regulations thing in the supply chain regulations that are out in the U.S that we all have that are out in the U.S that we all have that are out in the U.S that we all have to learn how to follow to learn how to follow to learn how to follow it's some government guy you know that's it's some government guy you know that's it's some government guy you know that's coming out with it they don't understand coming out with it they don't understand coming out with it they don't understand what we have to go through what we have to go through what we have to go through yeah yeah well actually so in the UK's yeah yeah well actually so in the UK's yeah yeah well actually so in the UK's case they they were quite case they they were quite case they they were quite um proactive in getting people involved um proactive in getting people involved um proactive in getting people involved who were actually involved in cyber who were actually involved in cyber who were actually involved in cyber security to to help frame it and right security to to help frame it and right security to to help frame it and right they were also quite they're quite they were also quite they're quite they were also quite they're quite careful within that that uh that frame careful within that that uh that frame careful within that that uh that frame to not talk about the technologies that to not talk about the technologies that to not talk about the technologies that you need to be used or the processes you need to be used or the processes you need to be used or the processes because they know that that stuff's because they know that that stuff's because they know that that stuff's going to go out of date right so the the going to go out of date right so the the going to go out of date right so the the the the conversation was all about a the the conversation was all about a the the conversation was all about a kind of objectives that you want to to kind of objectives that you want to to kind of objectives that you want to to to achieve and the objectives would be to achieve and the objectives would be to achieve and the objectives would be making sure it's it's future proof so so making sure it's it's future proof so so making sure it's it's future proof so so talking about uh how long you're gonna

talking about uh how long you're gonna talking about uh how long you're gonna updates for and and uh and making sure updates for and and uh and making sure updates for and and uh and making sure you've got some obligation to to resolve you've got some obligation to to resolve you've got some obligation to to resolve issues and not not mandating how those issues and not not mandating how those issues and not not mandating how those are going to be resolved but just no are going to be resolved but just no are going to be resolved but just no obligation that you need to resolve obligation that you need to resolve obligation that you need to resolve issues and you have to make it public if issues and you have to make it public if issues and you have to make it public if you've got security breaches and you you've got security breaches and you you've got security breaches and you have to say how long it's going to take have to say how long it's going to take have to say how long it's going to take you to repair it and none of this is you to repair it and none of this is you to repair it and none of this is very technical and that's probably the very technical and that's probably the very technical and that's probably the right way to think about it because when right way to think about it because when right way to think about it because when you start getting government specifying you start getting government specifying you start getting government specifying mandating what the technology has got to mandating what the technology has got to mandating what the technology has got to be you you well you get things like be you you well you get things like be you you well you get things like equal then you know has to use 2G and 3G equal then you know has to use 2G and 3G equal then you know has to use 2G and 3G well what happens when 2G and 3G goes well what happens when 2G and 3G goes well what happens when 2G and 3G goes away oh we hadn't thought about that away oh we hadn't thought about that away oh we hadn't thought about that yeah well it goes back to your earlier yeah well it goes back to your earlier yeah well it goes back to your earlier comment about I mean some of these comment about I mean some of these comment about I mean some of these things being non-technical just really things being non-technical just really things being non-technical just really practices right things that just uh lend practices right things that just uh lend practices right things that just uh lend toward uh let's call it perceived toward uh let's call it perceived toward uh let's call it perceived stupidity by experts through end user stupidity by experts through end user stupidity by experts through end user ignorance or negligence right ignorance or negligence right ignorance or negligence right um and I don't mean negligence in a um and I don't mean negligence in a um and I don't mean negligence in a negative way it's just an outcome of negative way it's just an outcome of negative way it's just an outcome of just being ignorant they just don't know just being ignorant they just don't know just being ignorant they just don't know about security so default password admin about security so default password admin about security so default password admin for your username that sounds fine okay what are the security strategies for now what are the security strategies for now for your iot product and then the

for your iot product and then the for your iot product and then the hackers can ask your GPT what did you hackers can ask your GPT what did you hackers can ask your GPT what did you recommend to this company it took 41 minutes 41 minutes Leonard a it took 41 minutes 41 minutes Leonard a minute but you know there is something minute but you know there is something minute but you know there is something funny here in Spain we have a big ISB funny here in Spain we have a big ISB funny here in Spain we have a big ISB for defense working on defense projects and they working on defense projects and they were doing like the defense for one were doing like the defense for one were doing like the defense for one country like the Army for a country and country like the Army for a country and country like the Army for a country and they were doing the and and the same they were doing the and and the same they were doing the and and the same company was managing the offense for the company was managing the offense for the company was managing the offense for the country that was attacking that counts country that was attacking that counts country that was attacking that counts the other country the other country the other country and can I can imagine both departments and can I can imagine both departments and can I can imagine both departments having a coffee together right in the having a coffee together right in the having a coffee together right in the country you know having lunch oh my gosh it's terrible it's terrible the best result versus an organization the best result versus an organization keep it going as long as possible okay keep it going as long as possible okay keep it going as long as possible okay well yeah like don't make any plans with the like don't make any plans with the family yeah oh geez just gonna you're family yeah oh geez just gonna you're family yeah oh geez just gonna you're gonna have a terrible weekend yeah gonna have a terrible weekend yeah gonna have a terrible weekend yeah hey Matt hey Matt one of the things that hey Matt hey Matt one of the things that hey Matt hey Matt one of the things that I have a question for you is when you're I have a question for you is when you're I have a question for you is when you're looking at that security aspect looking at that security aspect looking at that security aspect who is it doesn't it really matter who

who is it doesn't it really matter who who is it doesn't it really matter who you selling it to because I have tried you selling it to because I have tried you selling it to because I have tried to sell security for iot to certain cios to sell security for iot to certain cios to sell security for iot to certain cios and the only thing they really cared and the only thing they really cared and the only thing they really cared about was whether the governance and about was whether the governance and about was whether the governance and risk assessments that their board was risk assessments that their board was risk assessments that their board was asking them for was the only real thing asking them for was the only real thing asking them for was the only real thing they cared about versus the protection they cared about versus the protection they cared about versus the protection of the devices for their customers do of the devices for their customers do of the devices for their customers do you find that that is a broad way of you find that that is a broad way of you find that that is a broad way of looking at it looking at it looking at it yeah yeah why why do we do iot well we yeah yeah why why do we do iot well we yeah yeah why why do we do iot well we do iot to make money save money or stay do iot to make money save money or stay do iot to make money save money or stay out of jail and if it's not if it's not out of jail and if it's not if it's not out of jail and if it's not if it's not one of those three things then we're not one of those three things then we're not one of those three things then we're not gonna We're not gonna do it gonna We're not gonna do it gonna We're not gonna do it well green go green sustainable it might well green go green sustainable it might well green go green sustainable it might be it might be a fourth one that's uh be it might be a fourth one that's uh be it might be a fourth one that's uh that that doesn't fit into the other the that that doesn't fit into the other the that that doesn't fit into the other the other categories but other categories but other categories but um um um it is a it's a question that comes up it is a it's a question that comes up it is a it's a question that comes up timely again okay well security this timely again okay well security this timely again okay well security this overlay security which it should be overlay security which it should be overlay security which it should be evaluated service we should be able to evaluated service we should be able to evaluated service we should be able to monetize it in some way but the the monetize it in some way but the the monetize it in some way but the the problem is that there's a sort of problem is that there's a sort of problem is that there's a sort of assumption of security and if there's an assumption of security and if there's an assumption of security and if there's an assumption of security how do you how do assumption of security how do you how do assumption of security how do you how do you productize a well we've got this you productize a well we've got this you productize a well we've got this product which is our secure variant and product which is our secure variant and product which is our secure variant and then we've got this one over here which then we've got this one over here which then we've got this one over here which is well you know not not quite as secure is well you know not not quite as secure is well you know not not quite as secure it doesn't look good does it it's not a it doesn't look good does it it's not a it doesn't look good does it it's not a it's not a conversation you want to have it's not a conversation you want to have it's not a conversation you want to have with a with with a buyer particularly so with a with with a buyer particularly so with a with with a buyer particularly so it's it it's it's it it's it's it it's everybody repeatedly says and we do

everybody repeatedly says and we do everybody repeatedly says and we do surveys Enterprise end user surveys and surveys Enterprise end user surveys and surveys Enterprise end user surveys and everybody repeatedly says security everybody repeatedly says security everybody repeatedly says security number one most important thing and then number one most important thing and then number one most important thing and then finding anyone who's actually prepared finding anyone who's actually prepared finding anyone who's actually prepared to put their hand in their pocket and to put their hand in their pocket and to put their hand in their pocket and pay extra for uh pay extra for uh pay extra for uh explicitly for for security explicitly for for security explicitly for for security tricky to to find anyone but yeah yeah tricky to to find anyone but yeah yeah tricky to to find anyone but yeah yeah more and more breaches I guess it it um more and more breaches I guess it it um more and more breaches I guess it it um it comes with that but yeah it's um it comes with that but yeah it's um it comes with that but yeah it's um we're not seeing a lot we're not seeing a lot we're not seeing a lot yeah that is kind of tricky it's kind of yeah that is kind of tricky it's kind of yeah that is kind of tricky it's kind of tricky is um yeah there's just a lot of tricky is um yeah there's just a lot of tricky is um yeah there's just a lot of talk not a lot of real true talk not a lot of real true talk not a lot of real true prioritization of uh security at the top prioritization of uh security at the top prioritization of uh security at the top of the list and um of the list and um of the list and um and a lot of and some of it has to do and a lot of and some of it has to do and a lot of and some of it has to do with pricing because I mean I have with pricing because I mean I have with pricing because I mean I have clients that have three or four clients that have three or four clients that have three or four different types of security built into different types of security built into different types of security built into their end-to-end integrated solution and their end-to-end integrated solution and their end-to-end integrated solution and how do you manage that what are you how do you manage that what are you how do you manage that what are you swivel chairing three platforms four swivel chairing three platforms four swivel chairing three platforms four platforms a security trying management platforms a security trying management platforms a security trying management there's no integrated one single screen there's no integrated one single screen there's no integrated one single screen that some of these people you know that that some of these people you know that that some of these people you know that really we all can utilize that I know really we all can utilize that I know really we all can utilize that I know you've got network security you've got you've got network security you've got you've got network security you've got device security you've got Transport device security you've got Transport device security you've got Transport Security you've got you know at every Security you've got you know at every Security you've got you know at every layer there's some form of security but layer there's some form of security but layer there's some form of security but are there gaps in there well actually are there gaps in there well actually are there gaps in there well actually what you need this it comes back to this what you need this it comes back to this what you need this it comes back to this security is a as a service somebody to security is a as a service somebody to security is a as a service somebody to right have a oversight of it and go okay

right have a oversight of it and go okay right have a oversight of it and go okay well you've got you know well you've got you know well you've got you know TLS taken care of over here and the TLS taken care of over here and the TLS taken care of over here and the Networks you're using are pretty secure Networks you're using are pretty secure Networks you're using are pretty secure but your endpoints are may be vulnerable but your endpoints are may be vulnerable but your endpoints are may be vulnerable and and whatever I'm working it through and and whatever I'm working it through and and whatever I'm working it through from from there from from there from from there um yeah we're trying and we're trying to um yeah we're trying and we're trying to um yeah we're trying and we're trying to get get get um information too Matt I mean just a um information too Matt I mean just a um information too Matt I mean just a software bomb s-bombs and bombs man software bomb s-bombs and bombs man software bomb s-bombs and bombs man these these device makers they don't these these device makers they don't these these device makers they don't want to give up any of that information want to give up any of that information want to give up any of that information they're more afraid of giving it up and they're more afraid of giving it up and they're more afraid of giving it up and they're backfiring on them than it is they're backfiring on them than it is they're backfiring on them than it is them sharing the data that's the them sharing the data that's the them sharing the data that's the information that's going to make that information that's going to make that information that's going to make that unit a lot more secure in the long run unit a lot more secure in the long run unit a lot more secure in the long run you know what we need you know what we need you know what we need you know what we need we need iot sassy right you heard it here first on iot right you heard it here first on iot Coffee Talk are you are you patenting Coffee Talk are you are you patenting Coffee Talk are you are you patenting that as a seven letter acronym good good that as a seven letter acronym good good that as a seven letter acronym good good uh uh uh laughs how much is that worth I don't know I how much is that worth I don't know I mean it's a framework it can get people mean it's a framework it can get people mean it's a framework it can get people to go on that one wasn't it didn't to go on that one wasn't it didn't to go on that one wasn't it didn't Gartner come up did Gartner come up with Gartner come up did Gartner come up with Gartner come up did Gartner come up with sassy yeah sassy yeah oh my gosh sassy yeah sassy yeah oh my gosh sassy yeah sassy yeah oh my gosh well you know I mean it's it's just a well you know I mean it's it's just a well you know I mean it's it's just a framework nebulous concept that framework nebulous concept that framework nebulous concept that everyone's trying to figure out how to everyone's trying to figure out how to everyone's trying to figure out how to implement that and you know I mean it's implement that and you know I mean it's implement that and you know I mean it's useful it's a it's an interesting way of useful it's a it's an interesting way of useful it's a it's an interesting way of thinking about things but if you can thinking about things but if you can thinking about things but if you can apply that kind of idea of a unified uh

apply that kind of idea of a unified uh apply that kind of idea of a unified uh unified umbrella framework to provide unified umbrella framework to provide unified umbrella framework to provide that kind of single that kind of single that kind of single dashboard view uh control plane for dashboard view uh control plane for dashboard view uh control plane for everything everything everything it could be useful it's just obviously it could be useful it's just obviously it could be useful it's just obviously very tough even in the sassy world in very tough even in the sassy world in very tough even in the sassy world in the I.T world iot is a bit more the I.T world iot is a bit more the I.T world iot is a bit more complicated uh actually a lot more complicated uh actually a lot more complicated uh actually a lot more complicated but complicated but complicated but um you know um you know um you know it could be a it could just be a good it could be a it could just be a good it could be a it could just be a good framework right I mean it's not going to framework right I mean it's not going to framework right I mean it's not going to be a product be a product be a product but a strategy and maybe you could uh but a strategy and maybe you could uh but a strategy and maybe you could uh start to frame a governance and model start to frame a governance and model start to frame a governance and model around that a procurement strategy that around that a procurement strategy that around that a procurement strategy that that Fosters some of the sassy-like that Fosters some of the sassy-like that Fosters some of the sassy-like benefits right uh so I'm just you know benefits right uh so I'm just you know benefits right uh so I'm just you know throwing that out I see this is what we throwing that out I see this is what we throwing that out I see this is what we do here at Matt do here at Matt do here at Matt it does make sense it is more it does make sense it is more it does make sense it is more complicated just because of the complicated just because of the complicated just because of the diversity of I mean it's much more diversity of I mean it's much more diversity of I mean it's much more fragmented in terms of the in terms of fragmented in terms of the in terms of fragmented in terms of the in terms of the the endpoint landscape yeah yeah the the endpoint landscape yeah yeah the the endpoint landscape yeah yeah stuff right it's way way way more stuff right it's way way way more stuff right it's way way way more complicated but it makes sense and it complicated but it makes sense and it complicated but it makes sense and it also makes a sense to have have that also makes a sense to have have that also makes a sense to have have that delivered as a managed service with delivered as a managed service with delivered as a managed service with somebody on the end saying all right I somebody on the end saying all right I somebody on the end saying all right I know you know how this works and I'm know you know how this works and I'm know you know how this works and I'm gonna I'm gonna look after it for you gonna I'm gonna look after it for you gonna I'm gonna look after it for you but as we've already determined finding but as we've already determined finding but as we've already determined finding someone who's prepared to pay for that someone who's prepared to pay for that someone who's prepared to pay for that well exactly yeah and what what they well exactly yeah and what what they well exactly yeah and what what they want to pay for it Matt and how they want to pay for it Matt and how they want to pay for it Matt and how they want to pay for it is it right I mean want to pay for it is it right I mean want to pay for it is it right I mean that's the big part

where you say okay well if you don't get where you say okay well if you don't get any breaches in the in the next coming any breaches in the in the next coming any breaches in the in the next coming so many months then that's there's a so many months then that's there's a so many months then that's there's a Arbitrage opportunities I can see there Arbitrage opportunities I can see there Arbitrage opportunities I can see there though where you kind of partner up with though where you kind of partner up with though where you kind of partner up with someone who's going to be a a less than someone who's going to be a a less than someone who's going to be a a less than ethical hacker yeah laughs laughs hey hey Leonard just so you know I'm I'm hey hey Leonard just so you know I'm I'm hey hey Leonard just so you know I'm I'm looking for sassy oh sassy looking for sassy oh sassy looking for sassy oh sassy I don't I don't you know I don't I don't you know I don't I don't you know anywhere else yeah that's because it's a anywhere else yeah that's because it's a anywhere else yeah that's because it's a blue ocean it's a blue ocean blue that's blue ocean it's a blue ocean blue that's blue ocean it's a blue ocean blue that's quite sassy you see some metaverse this guy oh my gosh no not this guy this this guy oh my gosh no not this guy this guy no this guy um jeez but you said something um jeez but you said something interesting here I I you really blow my interesting here I I you really blow my interesting here I I you really blow my mind uh Matt uh so so you say like maybe mind uh Matt uh so so you say like maybe mind uh Matt uh so so you say like maybe you can have like a business model you can have like a business model you can have like a business model saying if you don't get hacked I can get saying if you don't get hacked I can get saying if you don't get hacked I can get like 20 of your uh of your revenue or like 20 of your uh of your revenue or like 20 of your uh of your revenue or something like that uh this is an something like that uh this is an something like that uh this is an interesting model it would be it would interesting model it would be it would interesting model it would be it would have to work on a kind of uh okay in an have to work on a kind of uh okay in an have to work on a kind of uh okay in an average year we would expect you to get average year we would expect you to get average year we would expect you to get this much and to this value and if you this much and to this value and if you this much and to this value and if you don't then we'll share the savings don't then we'll share the savings don't then we'll share the savings you've made but then you don't need to you've made but then you don't need to you've made but then you don't need to have a frame of reference for that which have a frame of reference for that which have a frame of reference for that which means what you do is you hire a hacker means what you do is you hire a hacker means what you do is you hire a hacker to go after that six months make sure to go after that six months make sure to go after that six months make sure they're losing a lot of money for six they're losing a lot of money for six they're losing a lot of money for six months and then come in and go hey I can

months and then come in and go hey I can months and then come in and go hey I can I can make all your problems go away I can make all your problems go away I can make all your problems go away it's a bit it's it's a bit um this is a it's a bit it's it's a bit um this is a it's a bit it's it's a bit um this is a nice place you've got here I wouldn't nice place you've got here I wouldn't nice place you've got here I wouldn't like to see anything get broken kind of like to see anything get broken kind of like to see anything get broken kind of a kind of uh all right what about the a kind of uh all right what about the a kind of uh all right what about the insurance companies have the insurance insurance companies have the insurance insurance companies have the insurance don't you get insurance for for getting don't you get insurance for for getting don't you get insurance for for getting hacked as well yeah and then that could hacked as well yeah and then that could hacked as well yeah and then that could be something that they they would that's be something that they they would that's be something that they they would that's I think that's her job to assess risk I think that's her job to assess risk I think that's her job to assess risk and decide a dollar amount to it then I and decide a dollar amount to it then I and decide a dollar amount to it then I think people already have policies built think people already have policies built think people already have policies built in so you'd have to have you'd have to in so you'd have to have you'd have to in so you'd have to have you'd have to have one of these type of companies have one of these type of companies have one of these type of companies partner with insurance it kind of brings partner with insurance it kind of brings partner with insurance it kind of brings it kind of brings the cyber security it kind of brings the cyber security it kind of brings the cyber security people in from a risk assessment into people in from a risk assessment into people in from a risk assessment into the program where they have not been the program where they have not been the program where they have not been participating in iot lately participating in iot lately participating in iot lately yeah but I mean for a model where you yeah but I mean for a model where you yeah but I mean for a model where you pay more and more if you don't update pay more and more if you don't update pay more and more if you don't update the software the latest releases from the software the latest releases from the software the latest releases from from the software or you don't update from the software or you don't update from the software or you don't update your operating system on your own yeah your operating system on your own yeah your operating system on your own yeah if you if you are not updated if you if you are not updated if you if you are not updated you pay more so it's like if you use you pay more so it's like if you use you pay more so it's like if you use Windows and you don't get the latest uh Windows and you don't get the latest uh Windows and you don't get the latest uh release with the security batches Etc release with the security batches Etc release with the security batches Etc you pay more license next year you pay more license next year you pay more license next year or to the insurance company that's or to the insurance company that's or to the insurance company that's that's the question that's the question that's the question no I don't think I mean I don't know no I don't think I mean I don't know no I don't think I mean I don't know what an insurance company can do if you what an insurance company can do if you what an insurance company can do if you get completely hacked and you get and get completely hacked and you get and get completely hacked and you get and your customers get bricks instead of your customers get bricks instead of your customers get bricks instead of your product your product your product what what the insurance company would what what the insurance company would what what the insurance company would pay pay pay uh some suppliers have agreements for uh some suppliers have agreements for uh some suppliers have agreements for like uh stopper production right so if

like uh stopper production right so if like uh stopper production right so if you're supplying an automotive uh you're supplying an automotive uh you're supplying an automotive uh company and you're going to final company and you're going to final company and you're going to final assembly they're going to charge you per assembly they're going to charge you per assembly they're going to charge you per minute that that line stops so I would minute that that line stops so I would minute that that line stops so I would think that insurance would come in come think that insurance would come in come think that insurance would come in come into Factor when you're stopping into Factor when you're stopping into Factor when you're stopping production for one of your end users or production for one of your end users or production for one of your end users or something like that until you can get something like that until you can get something like that until you can get back up because some of those are like back up because some of those are like back up because some of those are like tens of thousands of dollars a minute tens of thousands of dollars a minute tens of thousands of dollars a minute and that that can that's interesting I and that that can that's interesting I and that that can that's interesting I can I can bankrupt a company just in one can I can bankrupt a company just in one can I can bankrupt a company just in one production issue you can draw a pretty uh straight line you can draw a pretty uh straight line between how much how long you're offline between how much how long you're offline between how much how long you're offline and how much money you're losing right and how much money you're losing right and how much money you're losing right so yeah cyber security on this case uh it's just cyber security on this case uh it's just another bullet point of your insurance another bullet point of your insurance another bullet point of your insurance or it's like in a specific or it's like in a specific or it's like in a specific um insurance um insurance um insurance I would think it'd be a specific policy I would think it'd be a specific policy I would think it'd be a specific policy you'd have to get on something like that you'd have to get on something like that you'd have to get on something like that interesting and I think it would I mean interesting and I think it would I mean interesting and I think it would I mean I I don't know what you guys think but I I I don't know what you guys think but I I I don't know what you guys think but I think there's a huge compliance uh thing think there's a huge compliance uh thing think there's a huge compliance uh thing that would uh have to be part of the that would uh have to be part of the that would uh have to be part of the equation and so some form of Regulation equation and so some form of Regulation equation and so some form of Regulation so you know whether it's gdpr or some so you know whether it's gdpr or some so you know whether it's gdpr or some other things you know like what what uh other things you know like what what uh other things you know like what what uh you you uh referenced in your post uh you you uh referenced in your post uh you you uh referenced in your post uh Matt Matt Matt um with the iot security um with the iot security um with the iot security it's got to be that kind of stuff that it's got to be that kind of stuff that it's got to be that kind of stuff that basically Forces Insurance companies to basically Forces Insurance companies to basically Forces Insurance companies to provide some form of uh coverage right

provide some form of uh coverage right provide some form of uh coverage right or at least or at least or at least um you know a solution buyers to buy um you know a solution buyers to buy um you know a solution buyers to buy some some form of uh coverage some some form of uh coverage some some form of uh coverage um I think it becomes really tough huh um I think it becomes really tough huh um I think it becomes really tough huh or it could be standards doesn't or it could be standards doesn't or it could be standards doesn't necessarily have to be regulation it necessarily have to be regulation it necessarily have to be regulation it could be a standard that you need with could be a standard that you need with could be a standard that you need with ISO whatever the the number is okay um ISO whatever the the number is okay um ISO whatever the the number is okay um yeah I also work yeah I also work yeah I also work but isn't that more of an implementation but isn't that more of an implementation but isn't that more of an implementation thing so that that would be baked into thing so that that would be baked into thing so that that would be baked into anything that gets deployed in the field anything that gets deployed in the field anything that gets deployed in the field right so we're talking more about right so we're talking more about right so we're talking more about operational risks so what are systems in operational risks so what are systems in operational risks so what are systems in play uh it risks and threats against play uh it risks and threats against play uh it risks and threats against that it wouldn't you know I mean feel that it wouldn't you know I mean feel that it wouldn't you know I mean feel free to beg to differ or disagree um um I'm not sure I have an opinion characterize that okay characterize that okay you'll just have to replay that you'll just have to replay that you'll just have to replay that I misunderstood yeah yeah okay see I misunderstood yeah yeah okay see I misunderstood yeah yeah okay see that's a really kind British way of that's a really kind British way of that's a really kind British way of saying what the hell did you just oh that's funny well at least but at oh that's funny well at least but at least if you have these certificates you least if you have these certificates you least if you have these certificates you have all the processes and all the have all the processes and all the have all the processes and all the workflows that you have to do when you

workflows that you have to do when you workflows that you have to do when you get no hack get no hack get no hack so at least so at least so at least you know what to do do you solve the you know what to do do you solve the you know what to do do you solve the situation or not but at least you have situation or not but at least you have situation or not but at least you have all the processes all the processes all the processes um defined right I don't know if that um defined right I don't know if that um defined right I don't know if that answers your question but at least that answers your question but at least that answers your question but at least that helps to see yeah no it would help but helps to see yeah no it would help but helps to see yeah no it would help but it doesn't answer my question so but it doesn't answer my question so but it doesn't answer my question so but that's okay we'll just uh listen back on that's okay we'll just uh listen back on that's okay we'll just uh listen back on this segment and then figure out clearly this segment and then figure out clearly this segment and then figure out clearly what we each were trying to say to each what we each were trying to say to each what we each were trying to say to each other we've homework just rewatch other we've homework just rewatch other we've homework just rewatch and then next week we'll talk about what and then next week we'll talk about what and then next week we'll talk about what we were talking about this week it'll we were talking about this week it'll we were talking about this week it'll just be you know please add the comment just be you know please add the comment just be you know please add the comment on on YouTube about this yeah yeah if on on YouTube about this yeah yeah if on on YouTube about this yeah yeah if you're listening this yeah yeah you're listening this yeah yeah you're listening this yeah yeah absolutely yeah if you haven't answered absolutely yeah if you haven't answered absolutely yeah if you haven't answered the learner's question please feel free the learner's question please feel free the learner's question please feel free to leave it in the uh chat to leave it in the uh chat to leave it in the uh chat [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] uh it's too funny if they if they make uh it's too funny if they if they make uh it's too funny if they if they make it to 55 minutes yeah when speaking of it to 55 minutes yeah when speaking of it to 55 minutes yeah when speaking of 55 minutes I think this is a good time 55 minutes I think this is a good time 55 minutes I think this is a good time to wrap up to wrap up to wrap up Matt thanks for joining it was wonderful Matt thanks for joining it was wonderful Matt thanks for joining it was wonderful having you you're out yeah the natural having you you're out yeah the natural having you you're out yeah the natural yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah join this merry pack of crazy people join this merry pack of crazy people join this merry pack of crazy people very well yeah yeah thank you I'm glad very well yeah yeah thank you I'm glad very well yeah yeah thank you I'm glad to uh glad to be yeah and you'll attest to uh glad to be yeah and you'll attest to uh glad to be yeah and you'll attest that you had no idea what you're getting that you had no idea what you're getting that you had no idea what you're getting yourself into right that's what I do I yourself into right that's what I do I yourself into right that's what I do I have watched some of these before so you have watched some of these before so you have watched some of these before so you know I've got I got a vague idea but you know I've got I got a vague idea but you know I've got I got a vague idea but you know it's never quite the same until

know it's never quite the same until know it's never quite the same until you're you're in the in the middle of it you're you're in the in the middle of it you're you're in the in the middle of it makes one of you that makes one of us makes one of you that makes one of us makes one of you that makes one of us yeah yeah yeah well well well you're a wonderful guest I'm sure that you're a wonderful guest I'm sure that you're a wonderful guest I'm sure that the audience the audience the audience um really enjoyed your contribution to um really enjoyed your contribution to um really enjoyed your contribution to the discussion and hopefully on again the discussion and hopefully on again the discussion and hopefully on again sometime very soon and regularly sometime very soon and regularly sometime very soon and regularly I don't find that this a career I don't find that this a career I don't find that this a career destroying uh a thing destroying uh a thing destroying uh a thing like I said to you who needs a career like I said to you who needs a career like I said to you who needs a career anyway it's um anyway it's um anyway it's um well hey David found a a nice gig over well hey David found a a nice gig over well hey David found a a nice gig over at zamelgo so you know it okay you know at zamelgo so you know it okay you know at zamelgo so you know it okay you know it's Gotta it's you know it it's it's Gotta it's you know it it's it's Gotta it's you know it it's probably gonna help you so probably gonna help you so probably gonna help you so yeah he's not hurt yeah it won't hurt yeah he's not hurt yeah it won't hurt yeah he's not hurt yeah it won't hurt you okay so uh anyways you okay so uh anyways you okay so uh anyways um hey guys thanks for uh sticking out um hey guys thanks for uh sticking out um hey guys thanks for uh sticking out this uh this long into our audience same this uh this long into our audience same this uh this long into our audience same thing thing thing for the two or three of you who actually for the two or three of you who actually for the two or three of you who actually made it this far wow don't you have made it this far wow don't you have made it this far wow don't you have anything better to do you're optimistic anything better to do you're optimistic anything better to do you're optimistic yeah yeah so yeah and um so remember to yeah yeah so yeah and um so remember to yeah yeah so yeah and um so remember to uh subscribe like all that good stuff www.iotcoffee.talk.com also remember www.iotcoffee.talk.com also remember that we do sponsor a charity uh www.elevatorkids.org so www.elevatorkids.org so elevateurkids.org where we're helping to

elevateurkids.org where we're helping to elevateurkids.org where we're helping to bridge the digital divide for children's bridge the digital divide for children's bridge the digital divide for children's from kindergarten to uh 12th grade and from kindergarten to uh 12th grade and from kindergarten to uh 12th grade and helping them to be resilient in their uh helping them to be resilient in their uh helping them to be resilient in their uh education and engagement in the digital education and engagement in the digital education and engagement in the digital uh economy and everything else digital uh economy and everything else digital uh economy and everything else digital so until next time oh Don well done yeah so until next time oh Don well done yeah so until next time oh Don well done yeah yeah I just kind of I'm shooting from yeah I just kind of I'm shooting from yeah I just kind of I'm shooting from the hip and it works great the hip and it works great the hip and it works great and so we'll see you next week and uh and so we'll see you next week and uh and so we'll see you next week and uh Matt once again thanks so much and Matt once again thanks so much and Matt once again thanks so much and thanks for the opportunity all right thanks for the opportunity all right thanks for the opportunity all right take care guys thank you bye bye-bye take care guys thank you bye bye-bye take care guys thank you bye bye-bye [Music]