IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 155 - More With Less

okay okay welcome everybody to iot Coffee Talk wow welcome everybody to iot Coffee Talk wow welcome everybody to iot Coffee Talk wow from the people the cheering the crowd from the people the cheering the crowd from the people the cheering the crowd it's just so many I better be quiet when it's just so many I better be quiet when it's just so many I better be quiet when I was talking oh I know I don't want to I was talking oh I know I don't want to I was talking oh I know I don't want to interrupt anybody interrupt anybody interrupt anybody um um um so yes as you and I were just chatting so yes as you and I were just chatting so yes as you and I were just chatting about so um I'm in Hawaii right now I'm about so um I'm in Hawaii right now I'm about so um I'm in Hawaii right now I'm about to fly home about to fly home about to fly home um and so yeah a few times a year so all um and so yeah a few times a year so all um and so yeah a few times a year so all the stuff we talk about whether it's the stuff we talk about whether it's the stuff we talk about whether it's connectivity 5G connectivity 5G connectivity 5G um you know the iot digital twins um you know the iot digital twins um you know the iot digital twins um obviously AI is a big topic these um obviously AI is a big topic these um obviously AI is a big topic these days days days um and so I go do briefings um and so I go do briefings um and so I go do briefings um you know for senior officers uh about um you know for senior officers uh about um you know for senior officers uh about three times a year and so I just happen three times a year and so I just happen three times a year and so I just happen to be in Hawaii now and join an to be in Hawaii now and join an to be in Hawaii now and join an in-person event which was great you know in-person event which was great you know in-person event which was great you know uh previous ones as you can imagine over uh previous ones as you can imagine over uh previous ones as you can imagine over the last while the last while the last while they've just been on zoom and they're no they've just been on zoom and they're no they've just been on zoom and they're no fun fun fun and so uh and so yeah so I'm out here at and so uh and so yeah so I'm out here at and so uh and so yeah so I'm out here at Pearl Harbor and a briefing flag Pearl Harbor and a briefing flag Pearl Harbor and a briefing flag officers and so for you uninitiated officers and so for you uninitiated officers and so for you uninitiated people uh those would be like your people uh those would be like your people uh those would be like your Admirals and Generals you know that kind Admirals and Generals you know that kind Admirals and Generals you know that kind of thing so and so uh so out here it's a of thing so and so uh so out here it's a of thing so and so uh so out here it's a commander of the Pacific Fleet uh okay commander of the Pacific Fleet uh okay commander of the Pacific Fleet uh okay this is the one that we were doing this this is the one that we were doing this this is the one that we were doing this for and so for and so for and so yeah Admirals generals four stars we're yeah Admirals generals four stars we're yeah Admirals generals four stars we're here uh we had lots of Colonels and here uh we had lots of Colonels and here uh we had lots of Colonels and captains you know captains you know captains you know so just to not confuse you people if so just to not confuse you people if so just to not confuse you people if you're in the Navy a captain is like a

you're in the Navy a captain is like a you're in the Navy a captain is like a colonel colonel colonel you know whereas if you're in the Army a you know whereas if you're in the Army a you know whereas if you're in the Army a captain would be just like a lieutenant captain would be just like a lieutenant captain would be just like a lieutenant right right right um and so it's a different different um and so it's a different different um and so it's a different different level level level um and so we had both because you know um and so we had both because you know um and so we had both because you know as some people know or don't know the as some people know or don't know the as some people know or don't know the the Marine Corps is part of the Navy the Marine Corps is part of the Navy the Marine Corps is part of the Navy even though they don't want to talk even though they don't want to talk even though they don't want to talk about that about that about that um they you know they're kind of um they you know they're kind of um they you know they're kind of independent and kind of part of the Navy independent and kind of part of the Navy independent and kind of part of the Navy and that's you know they all you know so and that's you know they all you know so and that's you know they all you know so uh anyway so yeah last couple days uh anyway so yeah last couple days uh anyway so yeah last couple days uh to briefings for the commander of the uh to briefings for the commander of the uh to briefings for the commander of the Pacific Fleet uh and all these folks in Pacific Fleet uh and all these folks in Pacific Fleet uh and all these folks in there and a bunch of us who are a lot of there and a bunch of us who are a lot of there and a bunch of us who are a lot of instructors instructors instructors from uh in fact I was the only one who from uh in fact I was the only one who from uh in fact I was the only one who is not a doctor everyone else was a PhD is not a doctor everyone else was a PhD is not a doctor everyone else was a PhD so all the real smart people were there so all the real smart people were there so all the real smart people were there and then there's me and so you know and then there's me and so you know and then there's me and so you know um there's a place called the Naval um there's a place called the Naval um there's a place called the Naval Postgraduate School uh and that's in Postgraduate School uh and that's in Postgraduate School uh and that's in Monterey California and so the Naval Monterey California and so the Naval Monterey California and so the Naval Postgraduate School kind of facilitates Postgraduate School kind of facilitates Postgraduate School kind of facilitates a lot of these events uh to to keep a lot of these events uh to to keep a lot of these events uh to to keep senior officers uh abreast of what's the senior officers uh abreast of what's the senior officers uh abreast of what's the newest bleeding edge technology and so newest bleeding edge technology and so newest bleeding edge technology and so you can imagine how there's stuff that you can imagine how there's stuff that you can imagine how there's stuff that we talk about all the time but you can we talk about all the time but you can we talk about all the time but you can in your head you can go how would I in your head you can go how would I in your head you can go how would I reframe the same discussion reframe the same discussion reframe the same discussion to enhance the capabilities of War to enhance the capabilities of War to enhance the capabilities of War Fighters Fighters Fighters um and I totally get that this probably um and I totally get that this probably um and I totally get that this probably turns a lot of people off uh but you turns a lot of people off uh but you turns a lot of people off uh but you know oh well sorry know oh well sorry know oh well sorry um and so but it but it's interesting um and so but it but it's interesting um and so but it but it's interesting it's interesting when you think about it

it's interesting when you think about it it's interesting when you think about it because obviously all this technology because obviously all this technology because obviously all this technology has multiple purposes right we have has multiple purposes right we have has multiple purposes right we have civilians but it also has military civilians but it also has military civilians but it also has military purposes and so um you know obviously I purposes and so um you know obviously I purposes and so um you know obviously I am here to serve the the United States am here to serve the the United States am here to serve the the United States as I always have and we have adversaries as I always have and we have adversaries as I always have and we have adversaries around the world uh that we have to around the world uh that we have to around the world uh that we have to think about of course do they have think about of course do they have think about of course do they have access to similar technology yes they do access to similar technology yes they do access to similar technology yes they do and so not only do we talk about how how and so not only do we talk about how how and so not only do we talk about how how our warfighters could be using this our warfighters could be using this our warfighters could be using this technology better to enhance their technology better to enhance their technology better to enhance their capabilities but you also have to think capabilities but you also have to think capabilities but you also have to think about how would our adversaries use the about how would our adversaries use the about how would our adversaries use the same technology same technology same technology um against us so it's really interesting um against us so it's really interesting um against us so it's really interesting um um um you know like you and I we talked so you know like you and I we talked so you know like you and I we talked so much about cellular uh and and stuff much about cellular uh and and stuff much about cellular uh and and stuff like that and we and there's the whole like that and we and there's the whole like that and we and there's the whole notion of spectrum right uh and you know notion of spectrum right uh and you know notion of spectrum right uh and you know all these countries do Spectrum auctions all these countries do Spectrum auctions all these countries do Spectrum auctions and the mobile operators get Spectrum and the mobile operators get Spectrum and the mobile operators get Spectrum stuff like that well guess who else uses stuff like that well guess who else uses stuff like that well guess who else uses the Spectrum the military does right and the Spectrum the military does right and the Spectrum the military does right and so this is a thing so this is a thing so this is a thing um if you ever heard the term jamming um if you ever heard the term jamming um if you ever heard the term jamming like oh they're jamming my signal like oh they're jamming my signal like oh they're jamming my signal they're jamming you know radar and they're jamming you know radar and they're jamming you know radar and things like and all kinds of things like and all kinds of things like and all kinds of communications they're running over communications they're running over communications they're running over different frequencies as well different frequencies as well different frequencies as well um you know some news not big news but um you know some news not big news but um you know some news not big news but little news in the last few years little news in the last few years little news in the last few years I can't speak for any other place but in I can't speak for any other place but in I can't speak for any other place but in the U.S had to do with the cbrs thing the U.S had to do with the cbrs thing the U.S had to do with the cbrs thing um which is where the government um which is where the government um which is where the government carvered off some extra Spectrum for carvered off some extra Spectrum for carvered off some extra Spectrum for companies for Enterprises companies for Enterprises companies for Enterprises um so that they wouldn't always have to

um so that they wouldn't always have to um so that they wouldn't always have to go to go to go to ATT or T-Mobile or Verizon or Vodafone ATT or T-Mobile or Verizon or Vodafone ATT or T-Mobile or Verizon or Vodafone or whoever uh and say hey can we use the or whoever uh and say hey can we use the or whoever uh and say hey can we use the Spectrum for our corporate stuff Spectrum for our corporate stuff Spectrum for our corporate stuff um because you know big corporations um because you know big corporations um because you know big corporations they love to run their own network and a they love to run their own network and a they love to run their own network and a lot of times they really don't like lot of times they really don't like lot of times they really don't like being beholden to these mobile operators being beholden to these mobile operators being beholden to these mobile operators um they're like yeah we got this um they're like yeah we got this um they're like yeah we got this and so uh you've probably heard us talk and so uh you've probably heard us talk and so uh you've probably heard us talk about cbrs over the last several years about cbrs over the last several years about cbrs over the last several years where the government carved off some where the government carved off some where the government carved off some spectrum that that and there's a spectrum that that and there's a spectrum that that and there's a mechanism by which an Enterprise a big mechanism by which an Enterprise a big mechanism by which an Enterprise a big company could say yes and this three company could say yes and this three company could say yes and this three mile radius in this location I want some mile radius in this location I want some mile radius in this location I want some of that spectrum because I'm going to do of that spectrum because I'm going to do of that spectrum because I'm going to do private 5G or private LTE because private 5G or private LTE because private 5G or private LTE because there's lots of talk about private there's lots of talk about private there's lots of talk about private networks and building that but but you networks and building that but but you networks and building that but but you know the elephant in the room is when know the elephant in the room is when know the elephant in the room is when you're using cellular technology versus you're using cellular technology versus you're using cellular technology versus Wi-Fi for instance Wi-Fi for instance Wi-Fi for instance um it's licensed Spectrum so you can't um it's licensed Spectrum so you can't um it's licensed Spectrum so you can't just turn it on just turn it on just turn it on um and so that's always been the um and so that's always been the um and so that's always been the elephant in the room you've got it and elephant in the room you've got it and elephant in the room you've got it and so in the past it's not that private LTE so in the past it's not that private LTE so in the past it's not that private LTE is new but it was harder to sell because is new but it was harder to sell because is new but it was harder to sell because at the end of the sales conversation at the end of the sales conversation at the end of the sales conversation after the customer is all excited then after the customer is all excited then after the customer is all excited then you say oh by the way I need you to call you say oh by the way I need you to call you say oh by the way I need you to call mobile operator and see if they'll carve mobile operator and see if they'll carve mobile operator and see if they'll carve off from Spectrum for you and of course off from Spectrum for you and of course off from Spectrum for you and of course that could be a deal killer you know that could be a deal killer you know that could be a deal killer you know um it just it just depends um it just it just depends um it just it just depends I think it's I think it's really I think it's I think it's really I think it's I think it's really interesting rob you know I mean opinions interesting rob you know I mean opinions interesting rob you know I mean opinions aside around defense and Military Etc aside around defense and Military Etc aside around defense and Military Etc whether you like it or not it's going to whether you like it or not it's going to whether you like it or not it's going to happen the investment is there and and

happen the investment is there and and happen the investment is there and and it's needed right uh as you say the the it's needed right uh as you say the the it's needed right uh as you say the the you know uh in other countries in other you know uh in other countries in other you know uh in other countries in other parts of the world they surely are doing parts of the world they surely are doing parts of the world they surely are doing it they're pulling investment into it it they're pulling investment into it it they're pulling investment into it um I'm curious to know uh like the level um I'm curious to know uh like the level um I'm curious to know uh like the level of knowledge in the room when you're of knowledge in the room when you're of knowledge in the room when you're giving these talks right because I guess giving these talks right because I guess giving these talks right because I guess it's I guess it can be quite different it's I guess it can be quite different it's I guess it can be quite different because you know here on iot coffee talk because you know here on iot coffee talk because you know here on iot coffee talk we can be in our own little bubbles we can be in our own little bubbles we can be in our own little bubbles sometimes right and we can talk about sometimes right and we can talk about sometimes right and we can talk about bits and pieces and perhaps people uh in bits and pieces and perhaps people uh in bits and pieces and perhaps people uh in the outside world may not necessarily the outside world may not necessarily the outside world may not necessarily know that but I don't know because when know that but I don't know because when know that but I don't know because when you're talking of kind of military you're talking of kind of military you're talking of kind of military defense defense defense um concept is it actually quite High um concept is it actually quite High um concept is it actually quite High compared to let's say if you were giving compared to let's say if you were giving compared to let's say if you were giving this talk to you know a section of this talk to you know a section of this talk to you know a section of people that weren't in the military but people that weren't in the military but people that weren't in the military but weren't also in technology if that makes weren't also in technology if that makes weren't also in technology if that makes sense that's a good that's a good sense that's a good that's a good sense that's a good that's a good question question question um um um some of the stuff we talked about these some of the stuff we talked about these some of the stuff we talked about these guys may have never heard of it or they guys may have never heard of it or they guys may have never heard of it or they may have read just a small briefing may have read just a small briefing may have read just a small briefing document on it document on it document on it um and and that's actually the point of um and and that's actually the point of um and and that's actually the point of having us come there because they're having us come there because they're having us come there because they're looking they want Outsiders they want looking they want Outsiders they want looking they want Outsiders they want outside candid uh opinions and you know outside candid uh opinions and you know outside candid uh opinions and you know they want to hear because guess what they want to hear because guess what they want to hear because guess what like you talk about us being in our like you talk about us being in our like you talk about us being in our bubble they're in a bubble all kinds of bubble they're in a bubble all kinds of bubble they're in a bubble all kinds of people are in their little Bubbles and people are in their little Bubbles and people are in their little Bubbles and all they hear is and so most of the time all they hear is and so most of the time all they hear is and so most of the time they're thinking about they're thinking about they're thinking about you know I need an extra you know 20 you know I need an extra you know 20 you know I need an extra you know 20 billion dollars so I can buy this new billion dollars so I can buy this new billion dollars so I can buy this new fighter jet you know or I need to build fighter jet you know or I need to build fighter jet you know or I need to build a new submarine or whatever it is and a new submarine or whatever it is and a new submarine or whatever it is and they're always thinking about weapon

they're always thinking about weapon they're always thinking about weapon systems and stuff like that systems and stuff like that systems and stuff like that um but as you know you know electronic um but as you know you know electronic um but as you know you know electronic warfare warfare warfare um you know the internet changed the um you know the internet changed the um you know the internet changed the game and so it's not just kinetic game and so it's not just kinetic game and so it's not just kinetic battles on the battlefield uh cyber War battles on the battlefield uh cyber War battles on the battlefield uh cyber War um and as many people know or they may um and as many people know or they may um and as many people know or they may stop this may sound freaky to people stop this may sound freaky to people stop this may sound freaky to people there's been an ongoing cyber War I'd there's been an ongoing cyber War I'd there's been an ongoing cyber War I'd say for at least two decades right now say for at least two decades right now say for at least two decades right now um and I don't want to sound alarmist or um and I don't want to sound alarmist or um and I don't want to sound alarmist or anything you know when you're surfing anything you know when you're surfing anything you know when you're surfing the internet you know shopping online the internet you know shopping online the internet you know shopping online and some stuff you don't necessarily see and some stuff you don't necessarily see and some stuff you don't necessarily see the bullets flying by you on the the bullets flying by you on the the bullets flying by you on the internet but they actually are flying by internet but they actually are flying by internet but they actually are flying by you you you um the you know there's folks that um the you know there's folks that um the you know there's folks that you've probably heard about I'm not you've probably heard about I'm not you've probably heard about I'm not going to call out any names who are going to call out any names who are going to call out any names who are hacking and trying to get intellectual hacking and trying to get intellectual hacking and trying to get intellectual property or break into things 24 7. property or break into things 24 7. property or break into things 24 7. that's all that you know they're just that's all that you know they're just that's all that you know they're just scouring websites and trying to probe scouring websites and trying to probe scouring websites and trying to probe and penetrate you know defenses of giant and penetrate you know defenses of giant and penetrate you know defenses of giant corporations governments every corporations governments every corporations governments every government you know and it and so part government you know and it and so part government you know and it and so part of it is espionage and government of it is espionage and government of it is espionage and government spycraft some of it is spycraft some of it is spycraft some of it is trying to grab intellectual property trying to grab intellectual property trying to grab intellectual property right right right um from corporations and so um from corporations and so um from corporations and so which actually that's an interesting which actually that's an interesting which actually that's an interesting discussion in itself discussion in itself discussion in itself um because uh oh good we got David here um because uh oh good we got David here um because uh oh good we got David here hang on let me see let me get him in hang on let me see let me get him in hang on let me see let me get him in here here here um um um yeah and so yeah and so yeah and so to answer your question yeah some of

to answer your question yeah some of to answer your question yeah some of have they ever had any of these Admirals have they ever had any of these Admirals have they ever had any of these Admirals or generals ever heard of digital twins or generals ever heard of digital twins or generals ever heard of digital twins before no yeah before no yeah before no yeah um did they know a little bit about um did they know a little bit about um did they know a little bit about Spectrum yes because they actually do Spectrum yes because they actually do Spectrum yes because they actually do have have have in certain Services they they have in certain Services they they have in certain Services they they have people who are now in charge of what you people who are now in charge of what you people who are now in charge of what you would call EMS you know it's a would call EMS you know it's a would call EMS you know it's a electromagnetic spectrum and so electromagnetic spectrum and so electromagnetic spectrum and so and so that's the thing so for instance and so that's the thing so for instance and so that's the thing so for instance and again none of this is classified and again none of this is classified and again none of this is classified information but you know when you go information but you know when you go information but you know when you go around the world you know different around the world you know different around the world you know different countries have auctioned off different countries have auctioned off different countries have auctioned off different frequencies you know bands for people to frequencies you know bands for people to frequencies you know bands for people to do you know and obviously David's lived do you know and obviously David's lived do you know and obviously David's lived this life you know at Verizon this life you know at Verizon this life you know at Verizon but what's interesting is the military but what's interesting is the military but what's interesting is the military in the one hand they may be doing in the one hand they may be doing in the one hand they may be doing Communications with troops on the ground Communications with troops on the ground Communications with troops on the ground and ships at Sea and things like that in and ships at Sea and things like that in and ships at Sea and things like that in the United States one way but if let's the United States one way but if let's the United States one way but if let's say they need to go do an exercise in say they need to go do an exercise in say they need to go do an exercise in another country let's say the U.S is another country let's say the U.S is another country let's say the U.S is going to go do a joint exercise with the going to go do a joint exercise with the going to go do a joint exercise with the UK or any of our five eyes friends UK or any of our five eyes friends UK or any of our five eyes friends because that's very normal for us to do because that's very normal for us to do because that's very normal for us to do that together that together that together but in different countries or locations but in different countries or locations but in different countries or locations their EMS their Spectrum might be their EMS their Spectrum might be their EMS their Spectrum might be different and so you don't want to you different and so you don't want to you different and so you don't want to you know step on any toes and so their gear know step on any toes and so their gear know step on any toes and so their gear may be designed to talk at certain may be designed to talk at certain may be designed to talk at certain frequencies to do things but they have frequencies to do things but they have frequencies to do things but they have to check and say well in this country to check and say well in this country to check and say well in this country we're using these bands and so you can't we're using these bands and so you can't we're using these bands and so you can't stomp on those bands because it's it's

stomp on those bands because it's it's stomp on those bands because it's it's life inspection for commercial right life inspection for commercial right life inspection for commercial right um and so uh and so there's people who um and so uh and so there's people who um and so uh and so there's people who actually have to juggle that and think actually have to juggle that and think actually have to juggle that and think about that just when they're doing about that just when they're doing about that just when they're doing exercises and things around the world exercises and things around the world exercises and things around the world whether it's going to the UK or the whether it's going to the UK or the whether it's going to the UK or the Philippines or whatever everybody has Philippines or whatever everybody has Philippines or whatever everybody has something and so something and so something and so um that's that's kind of a thing um that's that's kind of a thing um that's that's kind of a thing of course what's interesting about that of course what's interesting about that of course what's interesting about that is what happens when the bullets start is what happens when the bullets start is what happens when the bullets start flying flying flying um when you know do you still tiptoe um when you know do you still tiptoe um when you know do you still tiptoe around the Spectrum and respect around the Spectrum and respect around the Spectrum and respect different countries the Spectrum bands different countries the Spectrum bands different countries the Spectrum bands or do you say I don't really care or do you say I don't really care or do you say I don't really care anymore uh the gloves are off right this anymore uh the gloves are off right this anymore uh the gloves are off right this is stuff that nobody ever talks about is stuff that nobody ever talks about is stuff that nobody ever talks about and it's because it's a strange and it's because it's a strange and it's because it's a strange conversation obviously conversation obviously conversation obviously um um um and there's this notion of jamming right and there's this notion of jamming right and there's this notion of jamming right we've been like you know going back to we've been like you know going back to we've been like you know going back to World War II we're jamming radar and World War II we're jamming radar and World War II we're jamming radar and stuff like that all this stuff is just stuff like that all this stuff is just stuff like that all this stuff is just radio waves right it really is you know radio waves right it really is you know radio waves right it really is you know and so uh it's radio waves different and so uh it's radio waves different and so uh it's radio waves different frequencies running at different Hertz frequencies running at different Hertz frequencies running at different Hertz you know how many times per are we you know how many times per are we you know how many times per are we rotating there per second right and so rotating there per second right and so rotating there per second right and so uh and so it's an interesting thing you uh and so it's an interesting thing you uh and so it's an interesting thing you know and it's interesting when you talk know and it's interesting when you talk know and it's interesting when you talk about about about well well well if we're in a shooting War if we're in a shooting War if we're in a shooting War with the adversary we would just start with the adversary we would just start with the adversary we would just start flooding every frequency because flooding every frequency because flooding every frequency because obviously we have software-defined obviously we have software-defined obviously we have software-defined networking you could have a little box networking you could have a little box networking you could have a little box it just goes it just goes it just goes and just Powers every radio frequency and just Powers every radio frequency and just Powers every radio frequency and floods it with data or whatever and floods it with data or whatever and floods it with data or whatever and you could do that to disrupt your

and you could do that to disrupt your and you could do that to disrupt your adversary adversary adversary but guess what you can't communicate but guess what you can't communicate but guess what you can't communicate either either either and so you know there's all this stuff and so you know there's all this stuff and so you know there's all this stuff and so uh so David we were just chatting and so uh so David we were just chatting and so uh so David we were just chatting chatting briefing a bunch of folks here chatting briefing a bunch of folks here chatting briefing a bunch of folks here at Pearl Harbor at Pearl Harbor at Pearl Harbor um and so uh you know great it's you um and so uh you know great it's you um and so uh you know great it's you know all this was unclassified but know all this was unclassified but know all this was unclassified but interesting conversations about how we interesting conversations about how we interesting conversations about how we use civilian technology you know and and use civilian technology you know and and use civilian technology you know and and for warfighting capabilities right yeah for warfighting capabilities right yeah for warfighting capabilities right yeah the I mean some of the the definitely the I mean some of the the definitely the I mean some of the the definitely you know commercial Concepts but you you know commercial Concepts but you you know commercial Concepts but you know to to your point uh this is back know to to your point uh this is back know to to your point uh this is back remember back in the 90s when it's like remember back in the 90s when it's like remember back in the 90s when it's like hey so it will my 2G phone work in next hey so it will my 2G phone work in next hey so it will my 2G phone work in next country right and it was uh what band country right and it was uh what band country right and it was uh what band are you what's frequency is it tdma CDMA are you what's frequency is it tdma CDMA are you what's frequency is it tdma CDMA GSM what is it GSM what is it GSM what is it plays here and and another thing uh that plays here and and another thing uh that plays here and and another thing uh that um that you triggered um that you triggered um that you triggered um now that there's much to trigger in um now that there's much to trigger in um now that there's much to trigger in my brain nowadays my brain nowadays my brain nowadays but you know recently in the uh conflict but you know recently in the uh conflict but you know recently in the uh conflict or War depending which country uh you or War depending which country uh you or War depending which country uh you know uh the whole Ukraine uh the battle know uh the whole Ukraine uh the battle know uh the whole Ukraine uh the battle uh you know we learned that uh you know we learned that uh you know we learned that and I don't know if it was due to and I don't know if it was due to and I don't know if it was due to signals being jammed but you effectively signals being jammed but you effectively signals being jammed but you effectively had a uh soldiers utilizing the had a uh soldiers utilizing the had a uh soldiers utilizing the commercial Network to communicate with commercial Network to communicate with commercial Network to communicate with their you know with their command and uh their you know with their command and uh their you know with their command and uh that that that you know they didn't pan out for that

you know they didn't pan out for that you know they didn't pan out for that particular uh situation but uh yeah it's particular uh situation but uh yeah it's particular uh situation but uh yeah it's you know but to your point if the you know but to your point if the you know but to your point if the bullets are flying and my approved bullets are flying and my approved bullets are flying and my approved communication device is not working and communication device is not working and communication device is not working and the bullets are flying the bullets are flying the bullets are flying man I got signal right on my on my Nokia man I got signal right on my on my Nokia man I got signal right on my on my Nokia brick yeah I'm gonna use to inform so brick yeah I'm gonna use to inform so brick yeah I'm gonna use to inform so that's a great point when you talk about that's a great point when you talk about that's a great point when you talk about your old Nokia brick your old Nokia brick your old Nokia brick um um um I'm gonna take your iPhone to the I'm gonna take your iPhone to the I'm gonna take your iPhone to the trenches are you kidding me I'm gonna trenches are you kidding me I'm gonna trenches are you kidding me I'm gonna open the basement look for Nokia 2100 open the basement look for Nokia 2100 open the basement look for Nokia 2100 series and the battery is going to last series and the battery is going to last series and the battery is going to last me you know uh two months uh easy me you know uh two months uh easy me you know uh two months uh easy exactly so it's part thing you know exactly so it's part thing you know exactly so it's part thing you know speaking of old stuff speaking of old stuff speaking of old stuff um um um let's just talk about the war in Ukraine let's just talk about the war in Ukraine let's just talk about the war in Ukraine right now um right now um right now um there's things you're saying you just there's things you're saying you just there's things you're saying you just said the word trenches there is more said the word trenches there is more said the word trenches there is more fares happening there that looks a lot fares happening there that looks a lot fares happening there that looks a lot like World War One like World War One like World War One there are people in trenches right now there are people in trenches right now there are people in trenches right now and yet it's like a and yet it's like a and yet it's like a Future Shock kind of thing there's Future Shock kind of thing there's Future Shock kind of thing there's people doing trench warfare just like people doing trench warfare just like people doing trench warfare just like World War one right now and yet some World War one right now and yet some World War one right now and yet some people are using people are using people are using consumer drones and flying over people consumer drones and flying over people consumer drones and flying over people and trenches and having drones drop hand and trenches and having drones drop hand and trenches and having drones drop hand grenades onto them grenades onto them grenades onto them you could say this is being Scrappy or you could say this is being Scrappy or you could say this is being Scrappy or resourceful with what you got right resourceful with what you got right resourceful with what you got right um um um there are so many interesting lessons to there are so many interesting lessons to there are so many interesting lessons to be learned be learned be learned um from what's going on you know so um from what's going on you know so um from what's going on you know so often we spend so much money on this

often we spend so much money on this often we spend so much money on this super high-end tech for Battlefield super high-end tech for Battlefield super high-end tech for Battlefield stuff weapon systems whatever and yet stuff weapon systems whatever and yet stuff weapon systems whatever and yet here we are watching this conflict going here we are watching this conflict going here we are watching this conflict going on and people are using the DJI you know on and people are using the DJI you know on and people are using the DJI you know they're they're just they're drones that they're they're just they're drones that they're they're just they're drones that they bought for their cameras and they bought for their cameras and they bought for their cameras and they're using it is economics they're using it is economics they're using it is economics it's economics it's economics it's economics how many predator drones could I buy how many predator drones could I buy how many predator drones could I buy versus let me go down to my hobby shop versus let me go down to my hobby shop versus let me go down to my hobby shop and just get hey how many what's your and just get hey how many what's your and just get hey how many what's your djia stock I'll take it yes but that's djia stock I'll take it yes but that's djia stock I'll take it yes but that's and this is a great discussion point and this is a great discussion point and this is a great discussion point because in the end is it more effective because in the end is it more effective because in the end is it more effective to have swarms of low-cost commercial to have swarms of low-cost commercial to have swarms of low-cost commercial drones or spending billions on Predators drones or spending billions on Predators drones or spending billions on Predators or Global Hawks or stuff like that or Global Hawks or stuff like that or Global Hawks or stuff like that well you know we're getting to see it well you know we're getting to see it well you know we're getting to see it play out in real life right now and play out in real life right now and play out in real life right now and maybe the answer is off the shelf maybe the answer is off the shelf maybe the answer is off the shelf commercial stuff and lots of them coming commercial stuff and lots of them coming commercial stuff and lots of them coming from every direction at a tiny tiny from every direction at a tiny tiny from every direction at a tiny tiny fraction of the cost right fraction of the cost right fraction of the cost right you know what that's a really good point you know what that's a really good point you know what that's a really good point I think you know David mentioned it when I think you know David mentioned it when I think you know David mentioned it when he spoke about his Nokia right when push he spoke about his Nokia right when push he spoke about his Nokia right when push comes to shove you use whatever you've comes to shove you use whatever you've comes to shove you use whatever you've got and that you need to get the job got and that you need to get the job got and that you need to get the job done and if it means it's a mavic pro done and if it means it's a mavic pro done and if it means it's a mavic pro because hey I've got one because because hey I've got one because because hey I've got one because everyone's got one uh then you use it everyone's got one uh then you use it everyone's got one uh then you use it right so that's quite an interesting right so that's quite an interesting right so that's quite an interesting concept and and and and I guess you know concept and and and and I guess you know concept and and and and I guess you know even outside of a Warfare uh point of even outside of a Warfare uh point of even outside of a Warfare uh point of view you know that could be applied for view you know that could be applied for view you know that could be applied for so many different instances isn't it you so many different instances isn't it you so many different instances isn't it you know you have this kind of view about

know you have this kind of view about know you have this kind of view about what you might use and what what but the what you might use and what what but the what you might use and what what but the reality of the situation is is actually reality of the situation is is actually reality of the situation is is actually quite different isn't it absolutely and quite different isn't it absolutely and quite different isn't it absolutely and also speaking of World War One not only also speaking of World War One not only also speaking of World War One not only doing trench warfare but there's a doing trench warfare but there's a doing trench warfare but there's a there's a pair everybody's uploading there's a pair everybody's uploading there's a pair everybody's uploading videos of what's going on to YouTube videos of what's going on to YouTube videos of what's going on to YouTube there's a video of the use of World War there's a video of the use of World War there's a video of the use of World War One machine guns mounted on like a One machine guns mounted on like a One machine guns mounted on like a tripod and being remotely controlled tripod and being remotely controlled tripod and being remotely controlled modern tag to remotely control a World modern tag to remotely control a World modern tag to remotely control a World War One machine machine gun being used War One machine machine gun being used War One machine machine gun being used in Ukraine and it's on YouTube who would in Ukraine and it's on YouTube who would in Ukraine and it's on YouTube who would have thought you'd see something like have thought you'd see something like have thought you'd see something like that you know that you know that you know it's crazy no you know what oh man I I it's crazy no you know what oh man I I it's crazy no you know what oh man I I know I know next to nothing about know I know next to nothing about know I know next to nothing about um um um weaponry weaponry weaponry but to think that I mean at the end of but to think that I mean at the end of but to think that I mean at the end of the day I mean if this if this thing is the day I mean if this if this thing is the day I mean if this if this thing is you know locked and loaded and I can you know locked and loaded and I can you know locked and loaded and I can actuate a trigger so some sort of rotary so some sort of rotary yeah dude that's uh that's that's super yeah dude that's uh that's that's super yeah dude that's uh that's that's super cool it's just people being resourceful cool it's just people being resourceful cool it's just people being resourceful back to this is all we found this is back to this is all we found this is back to this is all we found this is what we got we got to make the best of what we got we got to make the best of what we got we got to make the best of it so we're really smart we're 21st it so we're really smart we're 21st it so we're really smart we're 21st century smart but maybe we have ancient century smart but maybe we have ancient century smart but maybe we have ancient weapons that's all we got and but and so weapons that's all we got and but and so weapons that's all we got and but and so very clever stuff but it but it brings very clever stuff but it but it brings very clever stuff but it but it brings up bigger conversations about what's the up bigger conversations about what's the up bigger conversations about what's the best use of taxpayer dollars for weapon best use of taxpayer dollars for weapon best use of taxpayer dollars for weapon systems right and also brings that

systems right and also brings that systems right and also brings that phrase of they don't make them like they phrase of they don't make them like they phrase of they don't make them like they used to because if you have it used to because if you have it used to because if you have it from the first world war and you can from the first world war and you can from the first world war and you can still utilize it today that is a that is still utilize it today that is a that is still utilize it today that is a that is a quality crafted thing that's right yes a quality crafted thing that's right yes a quality crafted thing that's right yes exactly after all the great machines go exactly after all the great machines go exactly after all the great machines go ahead Tom no no I I I I completely agree ahead Tom no no I I I I completely agree ahead Tom no no I I I I completely agree I think it's also a lot of posturing I think it's also a lot of posturing I think it's also a lot of posturing isn't there right you know because isn't there right you know because isn't there right you know because clearly uh you know one side doesn't clearly uh you know one side doesn't clearly uh you know one side doesn't have what they've said that they've had have what they've said that they've had have what they've said that they've had or claimed that they've had over the or claimed that they've had over the or claimed that they've had over the years right and if they're still using years right and if they're still using years right and if they're still using all of this and it's clearly a bit of a all of this and it's clearly a bit of a all of this and it's clearly a bit of a problem there problem there problem there um so yeah though totally it's uh yeah I um so yeah though totally it's uh yeah I um so yeah though totally it's uh yeah I think you know I think I think I think think you know I think I think I think think you know I think I think I think it all it all boils down to uh you know it all it all boils down to uh you know it all it all boils down to uh you know what's right and what's going to get you what's right and what's going to get you what's right and what's going to get you out of stock the quickest basically you out of stock the quickest basically you out of stock the quickest basically you know and I think that's the that's the know and I think that's the that's the know and I think that's the that's the main uh the main concept here main uh the main concept here main uh the main concept here um you know so much money can be spent um you know so much money can be spent um you know so much money can be spent on you know we've got you know we talk on you know we've got you know we talk on you know we've got you know we talk about drones Etc and you know but but about drones Etc and you know but but about drones Etc and you know but but what's actually going to do the job what's actually going to do the job what's actually going to do the job there and then you know yeah absolutely there and then you know yeah absolutely there and then you know yeah absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely um I heard that uh you know the uh Putin um I heard that uh you know the uh Putin um I heard that uh you know the uh Putin uh demo day last week didn't go so well uh demo day last week didn't go so well uh demo day last week didn't go so well he only had like a little guy a little he only had like a little guy a little he only had like a little guy a little tank or something I don't know I didn't tank or something I don't know I didn't tank or something I don't know I didn't quite read everything but it wasn't like quite read everything but it wasn't like quite read everything but it wasn't like previous demo days it was kind of like previous demo days it was kind of like previous demo days it was kind of like it was like Mobile World Congress like it was like Mobile World Congress like it was like Mobile World Congress like pre-covet and then the first one right pre-covet and then the first one right pre-covet and then the first one right out it just it just wasn't the same out it just it just wasn't the same out it just it just wasn't the same it's kind of the light version yeah

it's kind of the light version yeah it's kind of the light version yeah oh my God I hear I hear the uh the the oh my God I hear I hear the uh the the oh my God I hear I hear the uh the the kg doing something to my router they're kg doing something to my router they're kg doing something to my router they're coming for you exactly exactly isn't coming for you exactly exactly isn't coming for you exactly exactly isn't that interesting that interesting that interesting um but yeah so EMS you know the Spectrum um but yeah so EMS you know the Spectrum um but yeah so EMS you know the Spectrum in different scenarios you could you in different scenarios you could you in different scenarios you could you could flood every frequency but then you could flood every frequency but then you could flood every frequency but then you still have to communicate obviously with still have to communicate obviously with still have to communicate obviously with yourself uh you can imagine the need to yourself uh you can imagine the need to yourself uh you can imagine the need to dynamically switch and hop to different dynamically switch and hop to different dynamically switch and hop to different frequencies to communicate if your frequencies to communicate if your frequencies to communicate if your adversary is jamming a particular one adversary is jamming a particular one adversary is jamming a particular one right right right um and so that's that's the thing you um and so that's that's the thing you um and so that's that's the thing you have to contend with you know have to contend with you know have to contend with you know everything's easy and peacetime and everything's easy and peacetime and everything's easy and peacetime and training and going oh this works great training and going oh this works great training and going oh this works great you know it's just like a lot of people you know it's just like a lot of people you know it's just like a lot of people might say yeah a military you should use might say yeah a military you should use might say yeah a military you should use 5G it's gonna rock and it's going to be 5G it's gonna rock and it's going to be 5G it's gonna rock and it's going to be awesome right up until that moment when awesome right up until that moment when awesome right up until that moment when it's not right and what do you do next it's not right and what do you do next it's not right and what do you do next what what's all your backup plan and what what's all your backup plan and what what's all your backup plan and maybe it is your brick phone you're no maybe it is your brick phone you're no maybe it is your brick phone you're no kidding like that or whatever something kidding like that or whatever something kidding like that or whatever something that still works you know that still works you know that still works you know um obviously satellites are play a big um obviously satellites are play a big um obviously satellites are play a big role in in all this I mean so like this role in in all this I mean so like this role in in all this I mean so like this is iot coffee talk is iot coffee talk is iot coffee talk what's the number one thing you'll hear what's the number one thing you'll hear what's the number one thing you'll hear about people in a battlefield situation about people in a battlefield situation about people in a battlefield situation a theater of war is situational a theater of war is situational a theater of war is situational awareness is the number one thing they awareness is the number one thing they awareness is the number one thing they want well what's the one thing we know want well what's the one thing we know want well what's the one thing we know that is born to give people situational that is born to give people situational that is born to give people situational awareness iot awareness iot awareness iot you've got sensors telling you what's you've got sensors telling you what's you've got sensors telling you what's going on everywhere in real time

going on everywhere in real time going on everywhere in real time um and so that's why iot is important um and so that's why iot is important um and so that's why iot is important for this you know because people want I for this you know because people want I for this you know because people want I need to know what's going on everywhere need to know what's going on everywhere need to know what's going on everywhere not just intelligent not just people but not just intelligent not just people but not just intelligent not just people but but sensors all over the place and so but sensors all over the place and so but sensors all over the place and so iot plays a you know a growing critical iot plays a you know a growing critical iot plays a you know a growing critical role uh in this kind of stuff because role uh in this kind of stuff because role uh in this kind of stuff because that's what it does it gives you that's what it does it gives you that's what it does it gives you situational awareness because from there situational awareness because from there situational awareness because from there then they can make decisions like when then they can make decisions like when then they can make decisions like when we talk about what's an iot platform do we talk about what's an iot platform do we talk about what's an iot platform do you know it's discovering it's measuring you know it's discovering it's measuring you know it's discovering it's measuring it's sensing things and then it's it's sensing things and then it's it's sensing things and then it's deciding to do something it's taking an deciding to do something it's taking an deciding to do something it's taking an action or whatever and so folks will action or whatever and so folks will action or whatever and so folks will take actions based on the battlefield take actions based on the battlefield take actions based on the battlefield awareness what are those things they awareness what are those things they awareness what are those things they call there oh they call it command of call there oh they call it command of call there oh they call it command of control of the military and so do we we control of the military and so do we we control of the military and so do we we call a feature of an iot platform as call a feature of an iot platform as call a feature of an iot platform as command and control I need to push a command and control I need to push a command and control I need to push a message back to my thing to change its message back to my thing to change its message back to my thing to change its Behavior to do something an actuator Behavior to do something an actuator Behavior to do something an actuator right right right um or in Ukraine maybe I'm going to um or in Ukraine maybe I'm going to um or in Ukraine maybe I'm going to actuate a World War One machine gun actuate a World War One machine gun actuate a World War One machine gun remotely that's sitting on a tripod that remotely that's sitting on a tripod that remotely that's sitting on a tripod that maybe I used for my high-end camera you maybe I used for my high-end camera you maybe I used for my high-end camera you know I think by by next you know there know I think by by next you know there know I think by by next you know there will be like some uh weapons will be like some uh weapons will be like some uh weapons manufacturer executive watching this manufacturer executive watching this manufacturer executive watching this next week and they're going to come up next week and they're going to come up next week and they're going to come up with a slogan that goes about if you can with a slogan that goes about if you can with a slogan that goes about if you can see it we can bomb it iot just just see it we can bomb it iot just just see it we can bomb it iot just just right there yeah absolutely but York's right there yeah absolutely but York's right there yeah absolutely but York's aside right if if you cannot if you aside right if if you cannot if you aside right if if you cannot if you cannot see it uh you can unmanage it and cannot see it uh you can unmanage it and cannot see it uh you can unmanage it and if you cannot manage it you cannot make if you cannot manage it you cannot make if you cannot manage it you cannot make this decision so it's back to you know

this decision so it's back to you know this decision so it's back to you know situational awareness and and also the situational awareness and and also the situational awareness and and also the difference if you have uh difference if you have uh difference if you have uh you know command in one part of the you know command in one part of the you know command in one part of the theater right versus like no this is theater right versus like no this is theater right versus like no this is what's happening right here right now no what's happening right here right now no what's happening right here right now no latency real time you know that that latency real time you know that that latency real time you know that that same information is going to be utilized same information is going to be utilized same information is going to be utilized wildly different based on you know based wildly different based on you know based wildly different based on you know based on because now it's tactics versus on because now it's tactics versus on because now it's tactics versus strategy on one side uh yeah so know strategy on one side uh yeah so know strategy on one side uh yeah so know this yeah this is this is definitely um this yeah this is this is definitely um this yeah this is this is definitely um iot all over it it is it's it's iot all over it it is it's it's iot all over it it is it's it's tailor-made for iot no doubt about it tailor-made for iot no doubt about it tailor-made for iot no doubt about it how often have we said little one-liners how often have we said little one-liners how often have we said little one-liners like iot makes the Unseen Scene It makes like iot makes the Unseen Scene It makes like iot makes the Unseen Scene It makes the Unknown Known you know it it really the Unknown Known you know it it really the Unknown Known you know it it really brings things to life brings things to life brings things to life um out there and so yeah it's it makes um out there and so yeah it's it makes um out there and so yeah it's it makes perfect sense so often we spend here perfect sense so often we spend here perfect sense so often we spend here talking about factories and stuff like talking about factories and stuff like talking about factories and stuff like that but does this mean that Colin that but does this mean that Colin that but does this mean that Colin Powell didn't know about iot because he Powell didn't know about iot because he Powell didn't know about iot because he gave us the the the the the unknown gave us the the the the the unknown gave us the the the the the unknown knowns or something that was Don knowns or something that was Don knowns or something that was Don Rumsfeld actually wrong sorry wrong Rumsfeld actually wrong sorry wrong Rumsfeld actually wrong sorry wrong defense guy defense guy defense guy but they work together obviously Colin but they work together obviously Colin but they work together obviously Colin Powell was a legitimate General and Powell was a legitimate General and Powell was a legitimate General and Rumsfeld was the Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was the Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was the Secretary of Defense but you're right I remember him standing but you're right I remember him standing but you're right I remember him standing up there going there are no knowns and up there going there are no knowns and up there going there are no knowns and there's unknown unknowns and there's there's unknown unknowns and there's there's unknown unknowns and there's none unknowns and something that sounded none unknowns and something that sounded none unknowns and something that sounded silly like some kind of word salad silly like some kind of word salad silly like some kind of word salad I think also because we influenced so

I think also because we influenced so I think also because we influenced so much of the internet bunch of kids are much of the internet bunch of kids are much of the internet bunch of kids are going to look up who these two guys are going to look up who these two guys are going to look up who these two guys are look him up look him up look him up Colin Powell Books lying about him Colin Powell Books lying about him Colin Powell Books lying about him absolutely uh I'm definitely a fan of absolutely uh I'm definitely a fan of absolutely uh I'm definitely a fan of general power what a great man he was oh general power what a great man he was oh general power what a great man he was oh my gosh my gosh my gosh um yeah do you know what it kind of um yeah do you know what it kind of um yeah do you know what it kind of makes me wonder how desperate that makes me wonder how desperate that makes me wonder how desperate that situation is because if you think about situation is because if you think about situation is because if you think about the you know the millions and billions the you know the millions and billions the you know the millions and billions certainly that from from a from a UK certainly that from from a from a UK certainly that from from a from a UK perspective looking at the US from what perspective looking at the US from what perspective looking at the US from what we see because obviously it's quite we see because obviously it's quite we see because obviously it's quite closed door it's it's Ultra secret you closed door it's it's Ultra secret you closed door it's it's Ultra secret you know it's military it's defense spending know it's military it's defense spending know it's military it's defense spending but we always see reports of billions but we always see reports of billions but we always see reports of billions and billions of Investments spent on and billions of Investments spent on and billions of Investments spent on future warfare future warfare future warfare um but how how is it that in a modern um but how how is it that in a modern um but how how is it that in a modern conflict in Ukraine at the moment it's conflict in Ukraine at the moment it's conflict in Ukraine at the moment it's so it's so desperate compared right and so it's so desperate compared right and so it's so desperate compared right and you know I made that earlier Point you know I made that earlier Point you know I made that earlier Point around around around um you know the posturing like Russia um you know the posturing like Russia um you know the posturing like Russia posturing saying we've got this we've posturing saying we've got this we've posturing saying we've got this we've got that you know against what what was got that you know against what what was got that you know against what what was its kind of main uh adversary in in the its kind of main uh adversary in in the its kind of main uh adversary in in the US but but it's clearly completely US but but it's clearly completely US but but it's clearly completely separate isn't it you know it's like how separate isn't it you know it's like how separate isn't it you know it's like how how can how can it be so desperate that how can how can it be so desperate that how can how can it be so desperate that you're going to use World War One you're going to use World War One you're going to use World War One equipment equipment equipment absolutely no you're absolutely right absolutely no you're absolutely right absolutely no you're absolutely right um obviously there's lots of countries like obviously there's lots of countries like the US and the UK and others that have the US and the UK and others that have the US and the UK and others that have been sending weapons to the ukrainians been sending weapons to the ukrainians been sending weapons to the ukrainians to help them and of course we hear to help them and of course we hear to help them and of course we hear Valencia all the time saying I need more

Valencia all the time saying I need more Valencia all the time saying I need more I mean now I need faster right we hear I mean now I need faster right we hear I mean now I need faster right we hear that a lot that a lot that a lot um and so I think I think it varies uh um and so I think I think it varies uh um and so I think I think it varies uh you know you know you know obviously you know without getting into obviously you know without getting into obviously you know without getting into great details about the weapon systems great details about the weapon systems great details about the weapon systems the US has sent them which the the the US has sent them which the the the US has sent them which the the climbers rocket launcher you know climbers rocket launcher you know climbers rocket launcher you know there's a lot of stuff that is really there's a lot of stuff that is really there's a lot of stuff that is really made a big difference for them made a big difference for them made a big difference for them um but but you know like anything in um but but you know like anything in um but but you know like anything in life I think where you are it varies by life I think where you are it varies by life I think where you are it varies by where you are and the timing you know where you are and the timing you know where you are and the timing you know sometimes you've got a big hammer and sometimes you've got a big hammer and sometimes you've got a big hammer and you're doing a great job you know you're doing a great job you know you're doing a great job you know zielinski did some great stuff with the zielinski did some great stuff with the zielinski did some great stuff with the weapons we sent them early on instead of weapons we sent them early on instead of weapons we sent them early on instead of using the missiles they just shoot at using the missiles they just shoot at using the missiles they just shoot at the Russians the whole time or right at the Russians the whole time or right at the Russians the whole time or right at them them them uh a more clever thing was they shot all uh a more clever thing was they shot all uh a more clever thing was they shot all their trucks and Munitions Depots and their trucks and Munitions Depots and their trucks and Munitions Depots and oil tanks and stuff like that oil tanks and stuff like that oil tanks and stuff like that because if you can take out the supply because if you can take out the supply because if you can take out the supply chain chain chain uh and your ability to wage a war over a uh and your ability to wage a war over a uh and your ability to wage a war over a distance distance distance um it makes it tough for your adversary um it makes it tough for your adversary um it makes it tough for your adversary and so there was some there was a lot of and so there was some there was a lot of and so there was some there was a lot of clever stuff there clever stuff there clever stuff there um I totally get the desperation it um I totally get the desperation it um I totally get the desperation it always feels like it's never enough you always feels like it's never enough you always feels like it's never enough you know there's always uh we don't want to know there's always uh we don't want to know there's always uh we don't want to be too involved we're going to arm you be too involved we're going to arm you be too involved we're going to arm you to so you can do your thing and you know to so you can do your thing and you know to so you can do your thing and you know and people keep talking about at what and people keep talking about at what and people keep talking about at what point are we escalating where it's point are we escalating where it's point are we escalating where it's really US versus them you know that really US versus them you know that really US versus them you know that whole deal and um you know we keep whole deal and um you know we keep whole deal and um you know we keep moving that line you know we keep saying moving that line you know we keep saying moving that line you know we keep saying we're not going to give you this weapon we're not going to give you this weapon we're not going to give you this weapon because then you know and we kind of because then you know and we kind of because then you know and we kind of give it to them or we can't give you

give it to them or we can't give you give it to them or we can't give you these tanks because if we do that oh boy these tanks because if we do that oh boy these tanks because if we do that oh boy and now they're asking for the F-16 and now they're asking for the F-16 and now they're asking for the F-16 fighter jets you know and I can get some fighter jets you know and I can get some fighter jets you know and I can get some people saying well s16 seems like a cool people saying well s16 seems like a cool people saying well s16 seems like a cool plane but it's actually from the 70s plane but it's actually from the 70s plane but it's actually from the 70s actually and so it's like do we feel actually and so it's like do we feel actually and so it's like do we feel like we could give them that you know to like we could give them that you know to like we could give them that you know to go against whatever the most recent Mig go against whatever the most recent Mig go against whatever the most recent Mig fighters from the Russians have I don't fighters from the Russians have I don't fighters from the Russians have I don't know this is all weird stuff to even know this is all weird stuff to even know this is all weird stuff to even talk about on this show but yet here we talk about on this show but yet here we talk about on this show but yet here we are doing it um and so uh but all this are doing it um and so uh but all this are doing it um and so uh but all this technology that we lived in plays a role technology that we lived in plays a role technology that we lived in plays a role in this other world that we don't see in this other world that we don't see in this other world that we don't see day to day you know and I think that's a day to day you know and I think that's a day to day you know and I think that's a really interesting point right you just really interesting point right you just really interesting point right you just don't see it so you don't know it you don't see it so you don't know it you don't see it so you don't know it you know know know um certainly every iot coffee talk that um certainly every iot coffee talk that um certainly every iot coffee talk that I've been on every podcast I've produced I've been on every podcast I've produced I've been on every podcast I've produced we've never really spoken about it but we've never really spoken about it but we've never really spoken about it but there must be a whole other ecosystem there must be a whole other ecosystem there must be a whole other ecosystem evolving and growing uh you know from evolving and growing uh you know from evolving and growing uh you know from from a military and defense side you from a military and defense side you from a military and defense side you know and again you know uh opinions know and again you know uh opinions know and again you know uh opinions aside for a moment because it's going to aside for a moment because it's going to aside for a moment because it's going to happen regardless right of what viewers happen regardless right of what viewers happen regardless right of what viewers made me think you know it's money's made me think you know it's money's made me think you know it's money's being spent anyhow but it's an being spent anyhow but it's an being spent anyhow but it's an interesting topic to kind of see where interesting topic to kind of see where interesting topic to kind of see where it can go what it can do from from a it can go what it can do from from a it can go what it can do from from a purely technological point of view you purely technological point of view you purely technological point of view you know yeah absolutely no but it's but know yeah absolutely no but it's but know yeah absolutely no but it's but it's back to look I mean we can we can it's back to look I mean we can we can it's back to look I mean we can we can bundle in the the weapons industry bundle in the the weapons industry bundle in the the weapons industry because guess what they air manufacturer because guess what they air manufacturer because guess what they air manufacturer right one of the biggest manufacturers right one of the biggest manufacturers right one of the biggest manufacturers yes absolutely and and their their

yes absolutely and and their their yes absolutely and and their their ecosystem you know it's kind of like if ecosystem you know it's kind of like if ecosystem you know it's kind of like if we picked a part you know let's just we picked a part you know let's just we picked a part you know let's just grab you know let's just grab like uh grab you know let's just grab like uh grab you know let's just grab like uh you know Toyota and Honda and then just you know Toyota and Honda and then just you know Toyota and Honda and then just do GM and Ford and you know we all know do GM and Ford and you know we all know do GM and Ford and you know we all know it it's a couple of thousand parts per it it's a couple of thousand parts per it it's a couple of thousand parts per vehicle if they have you know an IC vehicle if they have you know an IC vehicle if they have you know an IC engine uh but when you look at tier two engine uh but when you look at tier two engine uh but when you look at tier two it's like oh wait you do that for them it's like oh wait you do that for them it's like oh wait you do that for them and these guys and tier three oh you and these guys and tier three oh you and these guys and tier three oh you it's it's it's nearly identical uh you it's it's it's nearly identical uh you it's it's it's nearly identical uh you know on the military side but obviously know on the military side but obviously know on the military side but obviously for good reasons for good reasons for good reasons increasingly heavily regulated increasingly heavily regulated increasingly heavily regulated um like when you if you want to talk um like when you if you want to talk um like when you if you want to talk about supply chain visibility about supply chain visibility about supply chain visibility go talk to someone who's making a go talk to someone who's making a go talk to someone who's making a nuclear sub that uh you know Rob used to nuclear sub that uh you know Rob used to nuclear sub that uh you know Rob used to cook his breakfast on on that engine uh cook his breakfast on on that engine uh cook his breakfast on on that engine uh or you know or a weapons manufacturer or you know or a weapons manufacturer or you know or a weapons manufacturer the because now you're talking about the because now you're talking about the because now you're talking about National Defense not where the Roomba uh National Defense not where the Roomba uh National Defense not where the Roomba uh lost an actual brush today or not and we lost an actual brush today or not and we lost an actual brush today or not and we don't really careful no it's so it's don't really careful no it's so it's don't really careful no it's so it's it's super complex super regulated and it's super complex super regulated and it's super complex super regulated and uh and not only is it high tech going uh and not only is it high tech going uh and not only is it high tech going into the finished product but basically into the finished product but basically into the finished product but basically from raw materials before that thing from raw materials before that thing from raw materials before that thing ships out it's it's amazing it's super ships out it's it's amazing it's super ships out it's it's amazing it's super cool space to be in no opinions right cool space to be in no opinions right cool space to be in no opinions right just manufacturing weapons business you just manufacturing weapons business you just manufacturing weapons business you know the same Boeing that's building you know the same Boeing that's building you know the same Boeing that's building you commercial aircraft is building military commercial aircraft is building military commercial aircraft is building military stuff and you got Lockheed Martin you've stuff and you got Lockheed Martin you've stuff and you got Lockheed Martin you've got Northrop Grumman Raytheon Raytheon

got Northrop Grumman Raytheon Raytheon got Northrop Grumman Raytheon Raytheon General Dynamics electric boats General Dynamics electric boats General Dynamics electric boats um you know and they're and they're um you know and they're and they're um you know and they're and they're working around the clock and it's it's working around the clock and it's it's working around the clock and it's it's people working in factories just like people working in factories just like people working in factories just like the smart factories we talk about but the smart factories we talk about but the smart factories we talk about but they're just building something else you they're just building something else you they're just building something else you know yeah uh and so uh know yeah uh and so uh know yeah uh and so uh you know back to like some of the just you know back to like some of the just you know back to like some of the just kind of the general stuff around some of kind of the general stuff around some of kind of the general stuff around some of the discussions here in Pearl Harbor is the discussions here in Pearl Harbor is the discussions here in Pearl Harbor is you know they want to know from us they you know they want to know from us they you know they want to know from us they want to know from Silicon Valley they want to know from Silicon Valley they want to know from Silicon Valley they want to know from people in the tech want to know from people in the tech want to know from people in the tech industry they want to hear other industry they want to hear other industry they want to hear other opinions they don't want to just hear opinions they don't want to just hear opinions they don't want to just hear stuff from phds from the Rand stuff from phds from the Rand stuff from phds from the Rand Corporation they want to hear other Corporation they want to hear other Corporation they want to hear other voices because they need our help they voices because they need our help they voices because they need our help they want to make sure they're not in a want to make sure they're not in a want to make sure they're not in a bubble right when we come up with new bubble right when we come up with new bubble right when we come up with new innovations that could be a game changer innovations that could be a game changer innovations that could be a game changer in their world they want to know about in their world they want to know about in their world they want to know about it and then they want to know how can we it and then they want to know how can we it and then they want to know how can we you know and yeah those rank discussions you know and yeah those rank discussions you know and yeah those rank discussions it's like wow you know the whole deal is it's like wow you know the whole deal is it's like wow you know the whole deal is like okay we need some kind of new like okay we need some kind of new like okay we need some kind of new capability you know for some kind of capability you know for some kind of capability you know for some kind of drone all right I'm gonna call Lucky drone all right I'm gonna call Lucky drone all right I'm gonna call Lucky then I'm gonna have to send them 15 you then I'm gonna have to send them 15 you then I'm gonna have to send them 15 you know million dollars or billion dollars know million dollars or billion dollars know million dollars or billion dollars for them to build a prototype and then for them to build a prototype and then for them to build a prototype and then they'll get that in however many years they'll get that in however many years they'll get that in however many years whatever or I'm just going to go to the whatever or I'm just going to go to the whatever or I'm just going to go to the Hobby store and buy a drone and drop Hobby store and buy a drone and drop Hobby store and buy a drone and drop grenades off of it grenades off of it grenades off of it yeah I and they're like what because yeah I and they're like what because yeah I and they're like what because remember what do we always talk about remember what do we always talk about remember what do we always talk about with iot and all this stuff the outcome with iot and all this stuff the outcome with iot and all this stuff the outcome is what matters and you work back to the is what matters and you work back to the is what matters and you work back to the technology and so it's so easy to get technology and so it's so easy to get technology and so it's so easy to get caught up in the technology or a caught up in the technology or a caught up in the technology or a particular aircraft or weapon system but

particular aircraft or weapon system but particular aircraft or weapon system but what's important is to walk backwards what's important is to walk backwards what's important is to walk backwards and say the outcome the outcome we're and say the outcome the outcome we're and say the outcome the outcome we're seeing in Ukraine is wow they sure are seeing in Ukraine is wow they sure are seeing in Ukraine is wow they sure are having a lot of luck with these toy having a lot of luck with these toy having a lot of luck with these toy drones and all kinds of others Scrappy drones and all kinds of others Scrappy drones and all kinds of others Scrappy find whatever you can get kind of things find whatever you can get kind of things find whatever you can get kind of things that didn't cost that kind of money and that didn't cost that kind of money and that didn't cost that kind of money and is there a lesson to be learned there is there a lesson to be learned there is there a lesson to be learned there maybe there is you know maybe less is maybe there is you know maybe less is maybe there is you know maybe less is more you know smaller things might be more you know smaller things might be more you know smaller things might be better than big things better than big things better than big things [Music]