IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 255 - IoT Renaissance Delayed? (The Impact of Global Tariffs)

Lord is in the Lord is in the house. Oh. [Applause] [Applause] Heat. Heat. Yeah, there you go. So, when are you Yeah, there you go. So, when are you musician boys going to come up with an musician boys going to come up with an musician boys going to come up with an IoT Coffee Talk theme song? He already IoT Coffee Talk theme song? He already IoT Coffee Talk theme song? He already have one. have one. have one. stupid angle in the beginning.

stupid angle in the beginning. stupid angle in the beginning. There's a little there is opening. Yeah, we could we can come up with Yeah, we could we can come up with something. That would be easy. Yeah, you something. That would be easy. Yeah, you something. That would be easy. Yeah, you know, something put together by Sid and know, something put together by Sid and know, something put together by Sid and Marty Croft, you know, something like Marty Croft, you know, something like Marty Croft, you know, something like that. There you go. that. There you go. that. There you go. There you go. Hey, look at all these There you go. Hey, look at all these There you go. Hey, look at all these guys. Hey, uh, good to see you, Olivier. guys. Hey, uh, good to see you, Olivier. guys. Hey, uh, good to see you, Olivier. It's been a long time, too. Where the It's been a long time, too. Where the It's been a long time, too. Where the hell have you been? hell have you been? hell have you been? hiding. I know. Hey, dude. I I love how hiding. I know. Hey, dude. I I love how hiding. I know. Hey, dude. I I love how you represent IoT Coffee Talk on your you represent IoT Coffee Talk on your you represent IoT Coffee Talk on your own show. That's so cool, dude. Wearing own show. That's so cool, dude. Wearing own show. That's so cool, dude. Wearing your You like that? And uh I don't wear your You like that? And uh I don't wear your You like that? And uh I don't wear it when on the IoT coffee talk, right? it when on the IoT coffee talk, right? it when on the IoT coffee talk, right? Cuz it's useless. I need to wear it Cuz it's useless. I need to wear it Cuz it's useless. I need to wear it outside of coffee talk. Exactly. Right. outside of coffee talk. Exactly. Right. outside of coffee talk. Exactly. Right. So, so we're changing shirts now. So, so we're changing shirts now. So, so we're changing shirts now. Make sure you wear the shirt when you're Make sure you wear the shirt when you're Make sure you wear the shirt when you're out on the highway hitchhiking. Yeah, out on the highway hitchhiking. Yeah, out on the highway hitchhiking. Yeah, that's the best way to get notoriety. that's the best way to get notoriety. that's the best way to get notoriety. That's good advertising. That's our That's good advertising. That's our That's good advertising. That's our target. That's pretty sure that's the target. That's pretty sure that's the target. That's pretty sure that's the place you're going to get. Those who place you're going to get. Those who place you're going to get. Those who pitch up pick up hitchhikers. That's pitch up pick up hitchhikers. That's pitch up pick up hitchhikers. That's kind of our target.

kind of our target. kind of our target. Especially if they look like Rob on the Especially if they look like Rob on the Especially if they look like Rob on the on the road like Yikes. Yikes. Yeah. on the road like Yikes. Yikes. Yeah. on the road like Yikes. Yikes. Yeah. Yeah. Hey everyone, welcome to IoT Yeah. Hey everyone, welcome to IoT Yeah. Hey everyone, welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Um, you remember take us Coffee Talk. Um, you remember take us Coffee Talk. Um, you remember take us seriously at your own risk, which these seriously at your own risk, which these seriously at your own risk, which these days is really high apparently if you've days is really high apparently if you've days is really high apparently if you've been following the market. High risk. been following the market. High risk. been following the market. High risk. Yes. And uh don't take Yes. And uh don't take Yes. And uh don't take any anything that we say seriously at any anything that we say seriously at any anything that we say seriously at all because we're just having fun. And all because we're just having fun. And all because we're just having fun. And in terms of like any suggestions about in terms of like any suggestions about in terms of like any suggestions about investments, definitely don't listen to Rob. I'm just saying Rob. Rob. I'm just saying Rob. And uh remember we do this for the love And uh remember we do this for the love And uh remember we do this for the love of the kids. Um we have we have a of the kids. Um we have we have a of the kids. Um we have we have a charity called um Elevator Kids. We're charity called um Elevator Kids. We're charity called um Elevator Kids. We're always on a constant uh uh Jerry Lewis always on a constant uh uh Jerry Lewis always on a constant uh uh Jerry Lewis Yeah. Jerry Lewis fundraising Yeah. Jerry Lewis fundraising Yeah. Jerry Lewis fundraising teleathon going on here. Yeah. teleathon going on here. Yeah. teleathon going on here. Yeah. Teleathon. Yeah. for any of those of you Teleathon. Yeah. for any of those of you Teleathon. Yeah. for any of those of you who who who um um believe in helping kids in um um believe in helping kids in um um believe in helping kids in underserved and unserved communities. Um underserved and unserved communities. Um underserved and unserved communities. Um we're we're the charity to talk to and we're we're the charity to talk to and we're we're the charity to talk to and contribute to. We do this in conjunction contribute to. We do this in conjunction contribute to. We do this in conjunction and in collaboration with and in collaboration with and in collaboration with T-Mobile provides um connectivity, but T-Mobile provides um connectivity, but T-Mobile provides um connectivity, but uh the donations that you make are used uh the donations that you make are used uh the donations that you make are used to purchase devices. So again, kids in to purchase devices. So again, kids in to purchase devices. So again, kids in underserved and underserved communities

underserved and underserved communities underserved and underserved communities can participate in our digital future can participate in our digital future can participate in our digital future and we can bridge that digital um divide and we can bridge that digital um divide and we can bridge that digital um divide and devices. Yeah, devices like a pocket and devices. Yeah, devices like a pocket and devices. Yeah, devices like a pocket PC. Is that what you mean? Devices. PC. Is that what you mean? Devices. PC. Is that what you mean? Devices. What's Zoom? Zooms pocket PCs. Okay. What's Zoom? Zooms pocket PCs. Okay. What's Zoom? Zooms pocket PCs. Okay. Oh, or should we get them laptops? I Oh, or should we get them laptops? I Oh, or should we get them laptops? I don't know. Chromebooks. Chromebooks, don't know. Chromebooks. Chromebooks, don't know. Chromebooks. Chromebooks, netbooks, netbook. Oh, a netbook. I netbooks, netbook. Oh, a netbook. I netbooks, netbook. Oh, a netbook. I remember that had a window of time, you remember that had a window of time, you remember that had a window of time, you know. Yeah. Oh, paper and pencil also. know. Yeah. Oh, paper and pencil also. know. Yeah. Oh, paper and pencil also. You know, I remember Olivier working on You know, I remember Olivier working on You know, I remember Olivier working on some advanced data replication from some advanced data replication from some advanced data replication from paper and pencil to SQL paper and pencil to SQL paper and pencil to SQL Server. It's crazy. Yeah, those were the Server. It's crazy. Yeah, those were the Server. It's crazy. Yeah, those were the days. Those were the days. Yeah. days. Those were the days. Yeah. days. Those were the days. Yeah. So, um Yeah. Are you bringing this up So, um Yeah. Are you bringing this up So, um Yeah. Are you bringing this up because it's the 50th um 50th because it's the 50th um 50th because it's the 50th um 50th anniversary of Microsoft? Is that the anniversary of Microsoft? Is that the anniversary of Microsoft? Is that the deal, Rob? Today is the 50th anniversary deal, Rob? Today is the 50th anniversary deal, Rob? Today is the 50th anniversary of our favorite company from of our favorite company from of our favorite company from Albuquerque, New Mexico. There you go.

Albuquerque, New Mexico. There you go. Albuquerque, New Mexico. There you go. That's right. That's right. Interesting. That's right. That's right. Interesting. That's right. That's right. Interesting. Interesting Photoshop of the three of Interesting Photoshop of the three of Interesting Photoshop of the three of them together today. You got to love them together today. You got to love them together today. You got to love that. I I watched the little video they that. I I watched the little video they that. I I watched the little video they were doing together playing around with were doing together playing around with were doing together playing around with Copilot on an iPhone. That must have Copilot on an iPhone. That must have Copilot on an iPhone. That must have been Where's Copilot on Windows phone, been Where's Copilot on Windows phone, been Where's Copilot on Windows phone, you know? Whoops. you know? Whoops. you know? Whoops. Right. Well, in a parallel universe, Right. Well, in a parallel universe, Right. Well, in a parallel universe, Copilot is running on a Windows phone. Copilot is running on a Windows phone. Copilot is running on a Windows phone. We just need That's right. Yeah. Can you We just need That's right. Yeah. Can you We just need That's right. Yeah. Can you imagine? Can you imagine just being a imagine? Can you imagine just being a imagine? Can you imagine just being a couple bunch of college dropouts hanging couple bunch of college dropouts hanging couple bunch of college dropouts hanging out in Albuquerque with Walter White, out in Albuquerque with Walter White, out in Albuquerque with Walter White, you know, and saying, "I don't know. you know, and saying, "I don't know. you know, and saying, "I don't know. Should we start cooking something or Should we start cooking something or Should we start cooking something or should we make software for this Altter should we make software for this Altter should we make software for this Altter PC? I don't know. And I'm sure you saw PC? I don't know. And I'm sure you saw PC? I don't know. And I'm sure you saw that Bill Gates released the source code that Bill Gates released the source code that Bill Gates released the source code to the basic that he wrote for the to the basic that he wrote for the to the basic that he wrote for the Altter. So that's kind of cool in case Altter. So that's kind of cool in case Altter. So that's kind of cool in case Yeah. In case you want to check that Yeah. In case you want to check that Yeah. In case you want to check that out, you know, create your own basic out, you know, create your own basic out, you know, create your own basic compiler for a computer with a bunch of compiler for a computer with a bunch of compiler for a computer with a bunch of weird switches and lights on it, you weird switches and lights on it, you weird switches and lights on it, you know. Well, you know, Microsoft was was know. Well, you know, Microsoft was was know. Well, you know, Microsoft was was kind of the original big tech company, kind of the original big tech company, kind of the original big tech company, remember? I mean big tech these days we remember? I mean big tech these days we remember? I mean big tech these days we always think about you know Meta and always think about you know Meta and always think about you know Meta and Google and and and uh all these Google and and and uh all these Google and and and uh all these companies and back in the day if people companies and back in the day if people companies and back in the day if people remember especially back in the 90s with remember especially back in the 90s with remember especially back in the 90s with the antitrust stuff Microsoft was the the antitrust stuff Microsoft was the the antitrust stuff Microsoft was the death star the death star before big tech was a thing and now star before big tech was a thing and now big tech is the is the thing controlling

big tech is the is the thing controlling big tech is the is the thing controlling everything and everything and everything and Microsoft actually is not really in the Microsoft actually is not really in the Microsoft actually is not really in the headlines and when when people talk headlines and when when people talk headlines and when when people talk about big tech and who attends, you about big tech and who attends, you about big tech and who attends, you know, Trump's inauguration and blah blah know, Trump's inauguration and blah blah know, Trump's inauguration and blah blah blah. Microsoft does a good job staying blah. Microsoft does a good job staying blah. Microsoft does a good job staying out of that uh headline these days, out of that uh headline these days, out of that uh headline these days, which is that's a good point. You're which is that's a good point. You're which is that's a good point. You're right. But I guess the biggest notable right. But I guess the biggest notable right. But I guess the biggest notable thing that you know is that Windows thing that you know is that Windows thing that you know is that Windows ended up beating out OS2 and that's how ended up beating out OS2 and that's how ended up beating out OS2 and that's how we were all here today. Well, yeah, that we were all here today. Well, yeah, that we were all here today. Well, yeah, that was a turning point in humanity. No was a turning point in humanity. No was a turning point in humanity. No doubt. It was. It was. You know, it doubt. It was. It was. You know, it doubt. It was. It was. You know, it shows that you don't, you know, I think shows that you don't, you know, I think shows that you don't, you know, I think uh, you know, Leonard and I were sitting uh, you know, Leonard and I were sitting uh, you know, Leonard and I were sitting there in the audience earlier this week there in the audience earlier this week there in the audience earlier this week with Lip Nutan, the new CEO of Intel, with Lip Nutan, the new CEO of Intel, with Lip Nutan, the new CEO of Intel, and he just said, "The best product and he just said, "The best product and he just said, "The best product always wins." And guess what? He is so always wins." And guess what? He is so always wins." And guess what? He is so wrong. So many, wrong. So many, wrong. So many, Dude, I I picked up on that when I saw Dude, I I picked up on that when I saw Dude, I I picked up on that when I saw that show up on his slide deck. I just that show up on his slide deck. I just that show up on his slide deck. I just went, went, went, "No, dude. Come on." Yeah. Yeah. Windows "No, dude. Come on." Yeah. Yeah. Windows "No, dude. Come on." Yeah. Yeah. Windows 3 Windows 3.1 with was battling it out 3 Windows 3.1 with was battling it out 3 Windows 3.1 with was battling it out against OS2 2.1. It wasn't even close.

against OS2 2.1. It wasn't even close. against OS2 2.1. It wasn't even close. But, you know, Windows 3.1 was the VHS But, you know, Windows 3.1 was the VHS But, you know, Windows 3.1 was the VHS to OS2's beta match. So, there you go. to OS2's beta match. So, there you go. to OS2's beta match. So, there you go. You know, I think in um recent tech You know, I think in um recent tech You know, I think in um recent tech history, there's only one technology history, there's only one technology history, there's only one technology that was actually better that beat out that was actually better that beat out that was actually better that beat out its um the front runner um you know, its its um the front runner um you know, its its um the front runner um you know, its pure that was pure that was pure that was Blu-ray cuz remember HD DVD or whatever Blu-ray cuz remember HD DVD or whatever Blu-ray cuz remember HD DVD or whatever that HD DVD. That's right. Which which that HD DVD. That's right. Which which that HD DVD. That's right. Which which would have made more sense. It was would have made more sense. It was would have made more sense. It was compatible. Well, yeah, the comp but the compatible. Well, yeah, the comp but the compatible. Well, yeah, the comp but the but Blu-ray was a better but Blu-ray was a better but Blu-ray was a better technology and had more capacity, better technology and had more capacity, better technology and had more capacity, better performance, and performance, and performance, and Sony Sony Sony Sony Sony spent a lot of money to push Sony Sony spent a lot of money to push Sony Sony spent a lot of money to push through Blu-ray. Um, and Sony had a lot through Blu-ray. Um, and Sony had a lot through Blu-ray. Um, and Sony had a lot of heft to it because it was also a of heft to it because it was also a of heft to it because it was also a movie studio. And yeah, that I remember movie studio. And yeah, that I remember movie studio. And yeah, that I remember that battle. The question is the that battle. The question is the that battle. The question is the question is did Blu-ray um prevail question is did Blu-ray um prevail question is did Blu-ray um prevail because was the best or did it prevail because was the best or did it prevail because was the best or did it prevail because that Sony behind it and and when because that Sony behind it and and when because that Sony behind it and and when we we talk about technologies like best we we talk about technologies like best we we talk about technologies like best technology wins or pro no it's actually technology wins or pro no it's actually technology wins or pro no it's actually it depends on who's backing them and and it depends on who's backing them and and it depends on who's backing them and and who's injecting the right funds in who's injecting the right funds in who's injecting the right funds in there. Right. Right. Right. But if it there. Right. Right. Right. But if it there. Right. Right. Right. But if it wasn't for that then um um let's say at wasn't for that then um um let's say at wasn't for that then um um let's say at at that moment the less uh capable at that moment the less uh capable at that moment the less uh capable technology or the lesser technology technology or the lesser technology technology or the lesser technology prevails right so yeah I mean that's a

prevails right so yeah I mean that's a prevails right so yeah I mean that's a great point but but do you think like do great point but but do you think like do great point but but do you think like do you think a lesser do you think do you you think a lesser do you think do you you think a lesser do you think do you think a good technology will organically think a good technology will organically think a good technology will organically prevail or can organically prevail and prevail or can organically prevail and prevail or can organically prevail and and and overcome what the industry is and and overcome what the industry is and and overcome what the industry is like reality of it like reality of it like reality of it It it could right like Linux in server, It it could right like Linux in server, It it could right like Linux in server, right? It it can have a certain it can right? It it can have a certain it can right? It it can have a certain it can tune into a certain economic dynamic tune into a certain economic dynamic tune into a certain economic dynamic that allows it to um scale in terms of that allows it to um scale in terms of that allows it to um scale in terms of adoption and market. Yeah. Well, Linux adoption and market. Yeah. Well, Linux adoption and market. Yeah. Well, Linux the the paid versions, yes, the paid the the paid versions, yes, the paid the the paid versions, yes, the paid versions of Linux are are prevailing. versions of Linux are are prevailing. versions of Linux are are prevailing. Not the full open source. I mean, it's Not the full open source. I mean, it's Not the full open source. I mean, it's it's because they're backed by companies it's because they're backed by companies it's because they're backed by companies that are making money out of it and and that are making money out of it and and that are making money out of it and and are supporting it, but that that's you are supporting it, but that that's you are supporting it, but that that's you need those those companies to make them need those those companies to make them need those those companies to make them enterprise grade, right? And then enterprise grade, right? And then enterprise grade, right? And then basically life cycle, the whole thing. basically life cycle, the whole thing. basically life cycle, the whole thing. Yeah. I mean, that that's the thing. Yeah. I mean, that that's the thing. Yeah. I mean, that that's the thing. It's like there is no open in and of It's like there is no open in and of It's like there is no open in and of itself, and this is probably a great itself, and this is probably a great itself, and this is probably a great topic of discussion for this episode is topic of discussion for this episode is topic of discussion for this episode is not intrinsically um a superior, better not intrinsically um a superior, better not intrinsically um a superior, better or what have you, right? you you need to or what have you, right? you you need to or what have you, right? you you need to make it a particular grade for a make it a particular grade for a make it a particular grade for a particular industry or application and particular industry or application and particular industry or application and that's just the the sad fact. Um and that's just the the sad fact. Um and that's just the the sad fact. Um and that's where I think you know even um um that's where I think you know even um um that's where I think you know even um um this whole discussion around um open this whole discussion around um open this whole discussion around um open anything you know just becomes so anything you know just becomes so anything you know just becomes so twisted especially open source where twisted especially open source where twisted especially open source where people just really get twisted about

people just really get twisted about people just really get twisted about this stuff and this stuff and this stuff and um you know you know even with AI um you know you know even with AI um you know you know even with AI somebody has to make that thing somebody has to make that thing somebody has to make that thing enterprisegrade for that industry or enterprisegrade for that industry or enterprisegrade for that industry or application that this is something that application that this is something that application that this is something that people are slowly realizing izing as people are slowly realizing izing as people are slowly realizing izing as they're pushing all this crap out there. they're pushing all this crap out there. they're pushing all this crap out there. Eventually, they're going to have to Eventually, they're going to have to Eventually, they're going to have to rein it all back. rein it all back. rein it all back. Enterprises fortunately have this gate Enterprises fortunately have this gate Enterprises fortunately have this gate which is called a P go no go into like which is called a P go no go into like which is called a P go no go into like freaking pilot. We go no go for launch. freaking pilot. We go no go for launch. freaking pilot. We go no go for launch. Yeah. It it it's it's basically got Yeah. It it it's it's basically got Yeah. It it it's it's basically got green green green lights and you know an organic filter lights and you know an organic filter lights and you know an organic filter for pushing some pretty dangerous junk for pushing some pretty dangerous junk for pushing some pretty dangerous junk out there into the world. Right. out there into the world. Right. out there into the world. Right. Thankfully. Well, it's interesting, Thankfully. Well, it's interesting, Thankfully. Well, it's interesting, Leonard. This is a very I agree it's a Leonard. This is a very I agree it's a Leonard. This is a very I agree it's a precient topic because we're talking precient topic because we're talking precient topic because we're talking about the 50th anniversary of Microsoft about the 50th anniversary of Microsoft about the 50th anniversary of Microsoft originally the kind of the architect of originally the kind of the architect of originally the kind of the architect of the original closed uh ecosystem, right, the original closed uh ecosystem, right, the original closed uh ecosystem, right, which is uh which is the windel which is uh which is the windel which is uh which is the windel ecosystem, which is what they built. And ecosystem, which is what they built. And ecosystem, which is what they built. And there's other examples of very there's other examples of very there's other examples of very successful closed ecosystems. I would successful closed ecosystems. I would successful closed ecosystems. I would say ARM is another one which is a closed say ARM is another one which is a closed say ARM is another one which is a closed ecosystem based on license only. Um and ecosystem based on license only. Um and ecosystem based on license only. Um and sometimes though they can be very sometimes though they can be very sometimes though they can be very impactful impactful impactful uh in lots of industries and be very and uh in lots of industries and be very and uh in lots of industries and be very and be be very satisfactory. That being said be be very satisfactory. That being said be be very satisfactory. That being said there's also open architectures that there's also open architectures that there's also open architectures that have their own value propositions like have their own value propositions like have their own value propositions like risk 5 and other you know Linux is a risk 5 and other you know Linux is a risk 5 and other you know Linux is a great example. I mean Linux as an open great example. I mean Linux as an open great example. I mean Linux as an open platform you know is has become platform you know is has become platform you know is has become ubiquitous and there's lots of you know

ubiquitous and there's lots of you know ubiquitous and there's lots of you know varants and distros and innovation but varants and distros and innovation but varants and distros and innovation but it's really I think enabled lots of it's really I think enabled lots of it's really I think enabled lots of innovation in lots of different form innovation in lots of different form innovation in lots of different form factors so the the you know where where factors so the the you know where where factors so the the you know where where where does the arc bend you know toward where does the arc bend you know toward where does the arc bend you know toward open or closed I don't know it's hard to open or closed I don't know it's hard to open or closed I don't know it's hard to say but there's been really big examples say but there's been really big examples say but there's been really big examples out there in tech of very successful out there in tech of very successful out there in tech of very successful closed ecosystems that have been very closed ecosystems that have been very closed ecosystems that have been very satisfactory and and some open ones Apple is the most closed ecosystem in Apple is the most closed ecosystem in history. history. history. Yeah. You know, they're so closed that Yeah. You know, they're so closed that Yeah. You know, they're so closed that it made Microsoft look open. There you it made Microsoft look open. There you it made Microsoft look open. There you go. go. go. Hey, Win32 APIs. Anyone can write an Hey, Win32 APIs. Anyone can write an Hey, Win32 APIs. Anyone can write an app. Anybody can write to open app. Anybody can write to open app. Anybody can write to open standards, open ISA for cards that standards, open ISA for cards that standards, open ISA for cards that you're going to put in there. Yeah. So you're going to put in there. Yeah. So you're going to put in there. Yeah. So it's a it's an interesting uh ecosystem it's a it's an interesting uh ecosystem it's a it's an interesting uh ecosystem for you know you talk about weight for you know you talk about weight for you know you talk about weight behind a company you know it's not just behind a company you know it's not just behind a company you know it's not just Windows beat OS2 or something else it Windows beat OS2 or something else it Windows beat OS2 or something else it was even before that you know the Mac was even before that you know the Mac was even before that you know the Mac was revolutionary you know copying the was revolutionary you know copying the was revolutionary you know copying the alto and all the windowing and stuff alto and all the windowing and stuff alto and all the windowing and stuff like that but what really happened like that but what really happened like that but what really happened throughout the 80s and into the early throughout the 80s and into the early throughout the 80s and into the early 90s this commandlined operating system 90s this commandlined operating system 90s this commandlined operating system called DOSS was kicking everybody's ass called DOSS was kicking everybody's ass called DOSS was kicking everybody's ass how the hell did that happen but It did.

how the hell did that happen but It did. how the hell did that happen but It did. Yeah, there were more business Yeah, there were more business Yeah, there were more business applications for DOSs, you know, and so applications for DOSs, you know, and so applications for DOSs, you know, and so Mac seemed like the obvious winner. It Mac seemed like the obvious winner. It Mac seemed like the obvious winner. It was so easy to use, but it didn't, you was so easy to use, but it didn't, you was so easy to use, but it didn't, you know. I think there's I think there's an know. I think there's I think there's an know. I think there's I think there's an element of enterprise and and consumer element of enterprise and and consumer element of enterprise and and consumer markets there. So, in the consumer markets there. So, in the consumer markets there. So, in the consumer market, I think closed ecosystems do market, I think closed ecosystems do market, I think closed ecosystems do really well because they they solve a really well because they they solve a really well because they they solve a problem, you know, like Apple and other problem, you know, like Apple and other problem, you know, like Apple and other things where you you put it in, you turn things where you you put it in, you turn things where you you put it in, you turn it on, you hit the button, and it works. it on, you hit the button, and it works. it on, you hit the button, and it works. And that's what consumers need. On the And that's what consumers need. On the And that's what consumers need. On the enterprise side, no enterprise wants to enterprise side, no enterprise wants to enterprise side, no enterprise wants to get locked into a single vendor, right? get locked into a single vendor, right? get locked into a single vendor, right? I mean, that's a bad strategy to have I mean, that's a bad strategy to have I mean, that's a bad strategy to have single source and so you always want single source and so you always want single source and so you always want multiple devices from different multiple devices from different multiple devices from different companies and different apps have to run companies and different apps have to run companies and different apps have to run on, you know, so that that sort of on, you know, so that that sort of on, you know, so that that sort of drives a more open architecture on the drives a more open architecture on the drives a more open architecture on the commercial side and the consumer side. commercial side and the consumer side. commercial side and the consumer side. Yeah. It needs to come in a box and you Yeah. It needs to come in a box and you Yeah. It needs to come in a box and you turn it on and it works. Don't call turn it on and it works. Don't call turn it on and it works. Don't call support. That's that's and that's support. That's that's and that's support. That's that's and that's supported ecosystem model. I tell you, supported ecosystem model. I tell you, supported ecosystem model. I tell you, Pete, you know the one thing I always Pete, you know the one thing I always Pete, you know the one thing I always wanted that I never got, I was always wanted that I never got, I was always wanted that I never got, I was always hoping to get a 32-bit and then later a hoping to get a 32-bit and then later a hoping to get a 32-bit and then later a 64-bit version of DOSs that was 64-bit version of DOSs that was 64-bit version of DOSs that was multi-threaded, preemptive, multi-threaded, preemptive, multi-threaded, preemptive, multitasking, you know, all that stuff, multitasking, you know, all that stuff, multitasking, you know, all that stuff, but it's still DOSs. And it's for all but it's still DOSs. And it's for all but it's still DOSs. And it's for all those restaurants that are still using those restaurants that are still using those restaurants that are still using DOSs on their little deals and stuff DOSs on their little deals and stuff DOSs on their little deals and stuff like that, you know? I don't know. Are like that, you know? I don't know. Are like that, you know? I don't know. Are there still a lot of restaurants using there still a lot of restaurants using there still a lot of restaurants using DOSs on their little deals? Cuz I'm not DOSs on their little deals? Cuz I'm not DOSs on their little deals? Cuz I'm not seeing that as much. I think they seeing that as much. I think they seeing that as much. I think they switched to Toast on their handhelds switched to Toast on their handhelds switched to Toast on their handhelds now. Yes, exactly. You just kind of tap now. Yes, exactly. You just kind of tap now. Yes, exactly. You just kind of tap to pay now and you get your chicken to pay now and you get your chicken to pay now and you get your chicken teriyak and you're on your way, man.

teriyak and you're on your way, man. teriyak and you're on your way, man. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. No. Yeah. And you know all those No. Yeah. And you know all those No. Yeah. And you know all those handsets that all these handsets that all these handsets that all these business and things commercial use, business and things commercial use, business and things commercial use, they're all they're custom handsets and they're all they're custom handsets and they're all they're custom handsets and they're all based on, wait for it, they're all based on, wait for it, they're all based on, wait for it, Android. And why is that, Olivier? Android. And why is that, Olivier? Android. And why is that, Olivier? Because the embedded team decided to Because the embedded team decided to Because the embedded team decided to punt on CE and just let it go to hell in punt on CE and just let it go to hell in punt on CE and just let it go to hell in a hand basket. not the embedded not the a hand basket. not the embedded not the a hand basket. not the embedded not the embedded embedded embedded teams saying that Windows 8 should be teams saying that Windows 8 should be teams saying that Windows 8 should be everywhere and that we did not need everywhere and that we did not need everywhere and that we did not need Windows C Windows C Windows C and he killed yeah he killed the he and he killed yeah he killed the he and he killed yeah he killed the he killed the biggest Windows one of the killed the biggest Windows one of the killed the biggest Windows one of the biggest u window deals with Ford that biggest u window deals with Ford that biggest u window deals with Ford that that tried to force them to move from that tried to force them to move from that tried to force them to move from WindC WindC WindC to to Windows 8 and ended up being QX to to Windows 8 and ended up being QX to to Windows 8 and ended up being QX Windows 8 don't get me started just Windows 8 don't get me started just Windows 8 don't get me started just Shoot me. Don't get me started. Don't Shoot me. Don't get me started. Don't Shoot me. Don't get me started. Don't get him started, man. Yeah, I know. get him started, man. Yeah, I know. get him started, man. Yeah, I know. That's your best buddy, right? Let's get That's your best buddy, right? Let's get That's your best buddy, right? Let's get it started. Anyway, yeah, don't do that.

it started. Anyway, yeah, don't do that. it started. Anyway, yeah, don't do that. Yeah. Um, I know lots of lots of forks Yeah. Um, I know lots of lots of forks Yeah. Um, I know lots of lots of forks on the road, but you know, it's I was on the road, but you know, it's I was on the road, but you know, it's I was actually at a I was at this I mentioned actually at a I was at this I mentioned actually at a I was at this I mentioned this CASPA event. There was a guy Keith this CASPA event. There was a guy Keith this CASPA event. There was a guy Keith Whiten from Tense Tour did a really good Whiten from Tense Tour did a really good Whiten from Tense Tour did a really good talk about open architectures versus talk about open architectures versus talk about open architectures versus closed architectures and and the role closed architectures and and the role closed architectures and and the role for e for both to exist depending on the for e for both to exist depending on the for e for both to exist depending on the markets and the are. So, it's it's an markets and the are. So, it's it's an markets and the are. So, it's it's an interesting topic, but I mean to your interesting topic, but I mean to your interesting topic, but I mean to your point, Leonard, is like at the end of point, Leonard, is like at the end of point, Leonard, is like at the end of the day, everything needs to get the day, everything needs to get the day, everything needs to get commercialized. It needs to get Yeah. commercialized. It needs to get Yeah. commercialized. It needs to get Yeah. All the bugs need to get squeezed out of All the bugs need to get squeezed out of All the bugs need to get squeezed out of it. All the features need to get locked it. All the features need to get locked it. All the features need to get locked in. It needs to be supported. And open in. It needs to be supported. And open in. It needs to be supported. And open sometimes gives people permission to sometimes gives people permission to sometimes gives people permission to ship a lot of kind of rickety stuff. Um, ship a lot of kind of rickety stuff. Um, ship a lot of kind of rickety stuff. Um, yeah, that's not good. That's a great yeah, that's not good. That's a great yeah, that's not good. That's a great name for a software. name for a software. name for a software. Rickety Stuff.com. I love that. Well, you know, there's I love that. Well, you know, there's another player in the '90s um that we another player in the '90s um that we another player in the '90s um that we don't talk about as much, but boy, their don't talk about as much, but boy, their don't talk about as much, but boy, their CEO, Scott McNeely, he always talked CEO, Scott McNeely, he always talked CEO, Scott McNeely, he always talked about open standards, open interfaces, about open standards, open interfaces, about open standards, open interfaces, open everything. And that was Sun Micros open everything. And that was Sun Micros open everything. And that was Sun Micros Systemystems, you know, and they had Systemystems, you know, and they had Systemystems, you know, and they had their moment in the sun, especially with their moment in the sun, especially with their moment in the sun, especially with the dot thing because all the VCs said, the dot thing because all the VCs said, the dot thing because all the VCs said, "You got to buy these multi-million "You got to buy these multi-million "You got to buy these multi-million dollar servers." Um, I guess the only dollar servers." Um, I guess the only dollar servers." Um, I guess the only legacy left from them was Java. Um, boy, legacy left from them was Java. Um, boy, legacy left from them was Java. Um, boy, they they made great workstations and they they made great workstations and they they made great workstations and servers in the 90s. Yeah, they did a servers in the 90s. Yeah, they did a servers in the 90s. Yeah, they did a pretty good job with Java as a pretty good job with Java as a pretty good job with Java as a communitydriven process. Oh, yeah. Oh, communitydriven process. Oh, yeah. Oh, communitydriven process. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You're right. You're right. They yeah. You're right. You're right. They yeah. You're right. You're right. They nailed it. They nailed it. A good one.

nailed it. They nailed it. A good one. nailed it. They nailed it. A good one. Yeah. And you know what? I hate to say Yeah. And you know what? I hate to say Yeah. And you know what? I hate to say it, but I have to at least Java just it, but I have to at least Java just it, but I have to at least Java just kind of stayed steady through all these kind of stayed steady through all these kind of stayed steady through all these years because I certainly remember when years because I certainly remember when years because I certainly remember when we've talked about this in Windows Phone we've talked about this in Windows Phone we've talked about this in Windows Phone WTF, how we would jerk around our WTF, how we would jerk around our WTF, how we would jerk around our developer community at Microsoft and go developer community at Microsoft and go developer community at Microsoft and go from Win32 to from Win32 to from Win32 to universal Windows apps. And we kept universal Windows apps. And we kept universal Windows apps. And we kept changing the model over and over again. changing the model over and over again. changing the model over and over again. Java just kind of said, "Oh, we just Java just kind of said, "Oh, we just Java just kind of said, "Oh, we just added features to Java. It's still added features to Java. It's still added features to Java. It's still Java." And um I think there's still a Java." And um I think there's still a Java." And um I think there's still a Java 1 conference by the way. I think Java 1 conference by the way. I think Java 1 conference by the way. I think there's still a Java 1 conference. there's still a Java 1 conference. there's still a Java 1 conference. That's right. And so there's a lesson That's right. And so there's a lesson That's right. And so there's a lesson there of that kind of steady state there of that kind of steady state there of that kind of steady state consistency just incremental features consistency just incremental features consistency just incremental features where we kept trying to reboot the whole where we kept trying to reboot the whole where we kept trying to reboot the whole developer platform ecosystem multiple developer platform ecosystem multiple developer platform ecosystem multiple times and we thought that developers times and we thought that developers times and we thought that developers would stay with us and we were wrong. would stay with us and we were wrong. would stay with us and we were wrong. So we were wrong. Developers have So we were wrong. Developers have So we were wrong. Developers have checked out just like Bill and Steve checked out just like Bill and Steve checked out just like Bill and Steve have checked out on this call. I'm just have checked out on this call. I'm just have checked out on this call. I'm just I'm just listening to it. I mean, it I'm just listening to it. I mean, it I'm just listening to it. I mean, it it's we just have to sell the [ __ ] that it's we just have to sell the [ __ ] that it's we just have to sell the [ __ ] that you talk about. That's it. Well, I mean, you talk about. That's it. Well, I mean, you talk about. That's it. Well, I mean, I think it's extremely interesting, I think it's extremely interesting, I think it's extremely interesting, right? I mean, the the I've seen so many right? I mean, the the I've seen so many right? I mean, the the I've seen so many companies do the whole, you know, open- companies do the whole, you know, open- companies do the whole, you know, open- source thing and they run into that source thing and they run into that source thing and they run into that challenge, right? So, you see them you challenge, right? So, you see them you challenge, right? So, you see them you see them have two versions, right? Their see them have two versions, right? Their see them have two versions, right? Their open- source version and then their open- source version and then their open- source version and then their enterprise level. at the enterprise enterprise level. at the enterprise enterprise level. at the enterprise level takes away you know level takes away you know level takes away you know hyperfunctionality that you really need hyperfunctionality that you really need hyperfunctionality that you really need in order to get you to that paid

in order to get you to that paid in order to get you to that paid subscription. subscription. subscription. Yeah. Um so I mean I think I think Yeah. Um so I mean I think I think Yeah. Um so I mean I think I think companies that have done that you know companies that have done that you know companies that have done that you know rather well it you know it it it works. rather well it you know it it it works. rather well it you know it it it works. Open standards I think are different. Open standards I think are different. Open standards I think are different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Standard different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Standard different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Standard different. open standards. I I I think open open standards. I I I think open open standards. I I I think open standards are necessary standards are necessary standards are necessary um you know from an interoperability um you know from an interoperability um you know from an interoperability perspective. The challenge that you run perspective. The challenge that you run perspective. The challenge that you run into is how did you implement it because into is how did you implement it because into is how did you implement it because there's no rules to that. It's just be there's no rules to that. It's just be there's no rules to that. It's just be compliant and then there's compliant and then there's compliant and then there's self-compliance. Oh, but then there's a self-compliance. Oh, but then there's a self-compliance. Oh, but then there's a secondary business that says secondary business that says secondary business that says certifications. Oh, we'll certify that certifications. Oh, we'll certify that certifications. Oh, we'll certify that you are in line with everyone else and you are in line with everyone else and you are in line with everyone else and it well and then there's plugfest and it it well and then there's plugfest and it it well and then there's plugfest and it just starts to spiral out of control. just starts to spiral out of control. just starts to spiral out of control. Um, it it Um, it it Um, it it so like here's the open- source version so like here's the open- source version so like here's the open- source version of our product and here's the one that of our product and here's the one that of our product and here's the one that has security that you have to pay for. has security that you have to pay for. has security that you have to pay for. Well, yeah. So, hey, let's talk about Well, yeah. So, hey, let's talk about Well, yeah. So, hey, let's talk about the thing that actually apparently is on the thing that actually apparently is on the thing that actually apparently is on everyone's mind in the IoT community, everyone's mind in the IoT community, everyone's mind in the IoT community, especially in the US, is all these especially in the US, is all these especially in the US, is all these tariffs. And Steve, you haven't said tariffs. And Steve, you haven't said tariffs. And Steve, you haven't said anything other than high anything other than high anything other than high and you were probably as close to and you were probably as close to and you were probably as close to gadgets and um seeing, you know, the gadgets and um seeing, you know, the gadgets and um seeing, you know, the impact in the temperature in the room impact in the temperature in the room impact in the temperature in the room about this stuff. But what do you think about this stuff. But what do you think about this stuff. But what do you think about what what's going on? What's the about what what's going on? What's the about what what's going on? What's the sentiment about these tariffs and some sentiment about these tariffs and some sentiment about these tariffs and some of the policy changes that have been of the policy changes that have been of the policy changes that have been taking place that are ch I mean I can taking place that are ch I mean I can taking place that are ch I mean I can only imagine it's changing the economics

only imagine it's changing the economics only imagine it's changing the economics of IoT where Rob and I were talking of IoT where Rob and I were talking of IoT where Rob and I were talking about there's going to be a about there's going to be a about there's going to be a renaissance all of a sudden. renaissance all of a sudden. renaissance all of a sudden. Oh well Oh well Oh well maybe next time. Well I can I can assure maybe next time. Well I can I can assure maybe next time. Well I can I can assure you that the distributor sold a boatload you that the distributor sold a boatload you that the distributor sold a boatload of Chinese stuff last month. I can tell of Chinese stuff last month. I can tell of Chinese stuff last month. I can tell you that. I mean, prior to the tariff you that. I mean, prior to the tariff you that. I mean, prior to the tariff scenario, so anything that wasn't nailed scenario, so anything that wasn't nailed scenario, so anything that wasn't nailed down from a camera to a sensor to down from a camera to a sensor to down from a camera to a sensor to anything was sold last month big time anything was sold last month big time anything was sold last month big time before it and stored up. So, wow, that's before it and stored up. So, wow, that's before it and stored up. So, wow, that's a bit but you know, you look at a bit but you know, you look at a bit but you know, you look at Quicktail, right? Quicktail owns 45% of Quicktail, right? Quicktail owns 45% of Quicktail, right? Quicktail owns 45% of the IoT module market and they have the IoT module market and they have the IoT module market and they have moved to Eagle Manufacturing in Ohio moved to Eagle Manufacturing in Ohio moved to Eagle Manufacturing in Ohio outside of Cleveland. uh they actually outside of Cleveland. uh they actually outside of Cleveland. uh they actually took the entire QuickTell manufacturing took the entire QuickTell manufacturing took the entire QuickTell manufacturing machines and wafer machine and brought machines and wafer machine and brought machines and wafer machine and brought them to Ohio on a on containers and this them to Ohio on a on containers and this them to Ohio on a on containers and this month they're producing their first 1 month they're producing their first 1 month they're producing their first 1 million non-Chinesem manufactured million non-Chinesem manufactured million non-Chinesem manufactured US-made IoT modules with quick with US-made IoT modules with quick with US-made IoT modules with quick with Qualcomm chipsets in them. Well, not Qualcomm chipsets in them. Well, not Qualcomm chipsets in them. Well, not only that though, but but they're only that though, but but they're only that though, but but they're they're also manufacturing in San Jose.

they're also manufacturing in San Jose. they're also manufacturing in San Jose. Yeah. Well, yes, but now it's all move Yeah. Well, yes, but now it's all move Yeah. Well, yes, but now it's all move it's all movement Ohio is because that's it's all movement Ohio is because that's it's all movement Ohio is because that's what their official Eagle is their what their official Eagle is their what their official Eagle is their official group and they interfaced with official group and they interfaced with official group and they interfaced with Finite State for all the vulnerability Finite State for all the vulnerability Finite State for all the vulnerability data of everything on the firmware and data of everything on the firmware and data of everything on the firmware and on the chipset that's on the module on the chipset that's on the module on the chipset that's on the module itself. So they're looking at itself. So they're looking at itself. So they're looking at vulnerability data and any kind of botn vulnerability data and any kind of botn vulnerability data and any kind of botn nets or any other programs that are nets or any other programs that are nets or any other programs that are there in addition to Somos ID which I've there in addition to Somos ID which I've there in addition to Somos ID which I've introduced you guys to before. So now introduced you guys to before. So now introduced you guys to before. So now all those modules coming out of Ohio all those modules coming out of Ohio all those modules coming out of Ohio have been passed the security smell test have been passed the security smell test have been passed the security smell test uh for any kind of vulnerability or any uh for any kind of vulnerability or any uh for any kind of vulnerability or any kind of kind of kind of exploits and is made in the US market. exploits and is made in the US market. exploits and is made in the US market. So they were ahead of the game. They So they were ahead of the game. They So they were ahead of the game. They actually made that that program work actually made that that program work actually made that that program work because of all the negative tones around because of all the negative tones around because of all the negative tones around having a Chinese module inside US having a Chinese module inside US having a Chinese module inside US manufactured products and development manufactured products and development manufactured products and development products. So, so that's really the first products. So, so that's really the first products. So, so that's really the first company that's actually doing it. San company that's actually doing it. San company that's actually doing it. San Diego is antennas like Tow Glass and Diego is antennas like Tow Glass and Diego is antennas like Tow Glass and some of the other ones that have been some of the other ones that have been some of the other ones that have been doing all US-based ones instead of doing all US-based ones instead of doing all US-based ones instead of Chinese antennas. So, so if you're Chinese antennas. So, so if you're Chinese antennas. So, so if you're behind and you have not made the pivot behind and you have not made the pivot behind and you have not made the pivot and you thought that Vietnam was going and you thought that Vietnam was going and you thought that Vietnam was going to be a good place to go or Singapore to be a good place to go or Singapore to be a good place to go or Singapore was going to go or Taiwan was going to was going to go or Taiwan was going to was going to go or Taiwan was going to go, you screwed up that one too, right?

go, you screwed up that one too, right? go, you screwed up that one too, right? today. Um, but I I you know, I think today. Um, but I I you know, I think today. Um, but I I you know, I think you're gonna It depends on where we see, you're gonna It depends on where we see, you're gonna It depends on where we see, you know, Amazon go with products, you you know, Amazon go with products, you you know, Amazon go with products, you know, where where any of the home know, where where any of the home know, where where any of the home consumer products go. If those prices consumer products go. If those prices consumer products go. If those prices continue to go up by 20, 30, 40% in continue to go up by 20, 30, 40% in continue to go up by 20, 30, 40% in order to make up those tariff margins, order to make up those tariff margins, order to make up those tariff margins, then you're going to see consumers not then you're going to see consumers not then you're going to see consumers not buying that stuff because they're used buying that stuff because they're used buying that stuff because they're used to, you know, Walmart cheap and and to, you know, Walmart cheap and and to, you know, Walmart cheap and and that's and that's going to be it's going that's and that's going to be it's going that's and that's going to be it's going to change that consumer market in a big to change that consumer market in a big to change that consumer market in a big way. ISC West you look at what was going way. ISC West you look at what was going way. ISC West you look at what was going on the ADTS and all the other companies on the ADTS and all the other companies on the ADTS and all the other companies the matter guys are worried as well the matter guys are worried as well the matter guys are worried as well looking at the prices that are going to looking at the prices that are going to looking at the prices that are going to you know affect how they sell their you know affect how they sell their you know affect how they sell their products so I do think that on the products so I do think that on the products so I do think that on the consumer side it's going to be affecting consumer side it's going to be affecting consumer side it's going to be affecting really really quick if they if they have really really quick if they if they have really really quick if they if they have to pass that margin on that tariff to pass that margin on that tariff to pass that margin on that tariff margin on they don't have a choice not margin on they don't have a choice not margin on they don't have a choice not only not only not only is that going to only not only not only is that going to only not only not only is that going to happen but US manufacturers are going to happen but US manufacturers are going to happen but US manufacturers are going to do the same thing because I do the same thing because I do the same thing because I it's in I mean this is the whole it's in I mean this is the whole it's in I mean this is the whole conversation around you know do certain conversation around you know do certain conversation around you know do certain people understand how tariffs work?

people understand how tariffs work? people understand how tariffs work? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, exactly. That I mean I get I'm getting exactly. That I mean I get I'm getting exactly. That I mean I get I'm getting into the into the into the goofiest conversation still about it's goofiest conversation still about it's goofiest conversation still about it's like look, you can't have a sensible like look, you can't have a sensible like look, you can't have a sensible discussion when you don't even know the discussion when you don't even know the discussion when you don't even know the basics. And um and that's that that's basics. And um and that's that that's basics. And um and that's that that's one of the biggest problems with this one of the biggest problems with this one of the biggest problems with this tariff discussion and debate, right? Is tariff discussion and debate, right? Is tariff discussion and debate, right? Is it good or bad? It's just Yeah, but we it good or bad? It's just Yeah, but we it good or bad? It's just Yeah, but we we've been dealing with Brazil for for we've been dealing with Brazil for for we've been dealing with Brazil for for decades, right? So, I'll go back to the decades, right? So, I'll go back to the decades, right? So, I'll go back to the Blackberry days when I had a contract, Blackberry days when I had a contract, Blackberry days when I had a contract, you know, the for for Johnson and in you know, the for for Johnson and in you know, the for for Johnson and in Brazil. I was sending multiple boxes of Brazil. I was sending multiple boxes of Brazil. I was sending multiple boxes of broken out Blackberry pages down to broken out Blackberry pages down to broken out Blackberry pages down to Brazil to reassemble them to avoid the Brazil to reassemble them to avoid the Brazil to reassemble them to avoid the tariff tax. Yeah, that was 20 years ago, tariff tax. Yeah, that was 20 years ago, tariff tax. Yeah, that was 20 years ago, 30 years ago. So, are they smarter now 30 years ago. So, are they smarter now 30 years ago. So, are they smarter now requiring you to manufacture in Brazil requiring you to manufacture in Brazil requiring you to manufacture in Brazil in order to sell into the Brazilian in order to sell into the Brazilian in order to sell into the Brazilian market? So, you got a 20, market? So, you got a 20, market? So, you got a 20, 30-year model that Brazil's been 30-year model that Brazil's been 30-year model that Brazil's been following. How wrong are we to be in following. How wrong are we to be in following. How wrong are we to be in that same kind of model? But the problem that same kind of model? But the problem that same kind of model? But the problem is is that you're putting in these is is that you're putting in these is is that you're putting in these tariffs now and it's going to take two tariffs now and it's going to take two tariffs now and it's going to take two to three years for fabs and companies to to three years for fabs and companies to to three years for fabs and companies to start to build in the US. What the hell start to build in the US. What the hell start to build in the US. What the hell happens between now and then? M well you happens between now and then? M well you happens between now and then? M well you have the same thing happening with have the same thing happening with have the same thing happening with NAFTA, right? Yeah, agreed. If you pass NAFTA, right? Yeah, agreed. If you pass NAFTA, right? Yeah, agreed. If you pass that if you pass NAFTA, you're going to that if you pass NAFTA, you're going to that if you pass NAFTA, you're going to hear a sucking sound coming from south hear a sucking sound coming from south hear a sucking sound coming from south of the border.

of the border. of the border. I'm just doing my Ross Perau I'm just doing my Ross Perau I'm just doing my Ross Perau impersonation. So, Steve, do you think impersonation. So, Steve, do you think impersonation. So, Steve, do you think do you think manufacturers will will do you think manufacturers will will do you think manufacturers will will start investing in in or or is there start investing in in or or is there start investing in in or or is there also going to be a a wait and see type also going to be a a wait and see type also going to be a a wait and see type of um move that will be hey it will take of um move that will be hey it will take of um move that will be hey it will take me three four years to build a new me three four years to build a new me three four years to build a new factory there instead of waiting for the factory there instead of waiting for the factory there instead of waiting for the next uh administration to come in and next uh administration to come in and next uh administration to come in and and nix all these tariffs and go back to and nix all these tariffs and go back to and nix all these tariffs and go back to something more reasonable like well if I something more reasonable like well if I something more reasonable like well if I were an investor I was like um you know were an investor I was like um you know were an investor I was like um you know should I should I invest in the company should I should I invest in the company should I should I invest in the company that is like waiting to see what's going that is like waiting to see what's going that is like waiting to see what's going on or the one that is like crazy on or the one that is like crazy on or the one that is like crazy reinvesting locally for maybe labor will reinvesting locally for maybe labor will reinvesting locally for maybe labor will not be cheaper in the US than than you not be cheaper in the US than than you not be cheaper in the US than than you know and or or it will become and that's know and or or it will become and that's know and or or it will become and that's going to be you know weird but um you're going to be you know weird but um you're going to be you know weird but um you're on the right track I mean Olivia there on the right track I mean Olivia there on the right track I mean Olivia there has been a big surge in contract has been a big surge in contract has been a big surge in contract manufacturing manufacturing manufacturing uh facilities and partners in the US uh facilities and partners in the US uh facilities and partners in the US right there there they have been over right there there they have been over right there there they have been over the last several years building up their the last several years building up their the last several years building up their capabilities from New Jersey to Ohio to capabilities from New Jersey to Ohio to capabilities from New Jersey to Ohio to Oregon to Idaho And I think those Oregon to Idaho And I think those Oregon to Idaho And I think those companies did the right thing in being companies did the right thing in being companies did the right thing in being able to get the quantities out of the able to get the quantities out of the able to get the quantities out of the other end of the manufacturing facility other end of the manufacturing facility other end of the manufacturing facility of USmade assembled products and parts.

of USmade assembled products and parts. of USmade assembled products and parts. So yes, you will pay more for those So yes, you will pay more for those So yes, you will pay more for those products, but if you're trying to do products, but if you're trying to do products, but if you're trying to do business in the government, if you're business in the government, if you're business in the government, if you're trying to do business in the military, trying to do business in the military, trying to do business in the military, and certain now now some of the larger and certain now now some of the larger and certain now now some of the larger enterprises that are putting these enterprises that are putting these enterprises that are putting these boxes, edge boxes and sensors and boxes, edge boxes and sensors and boxes, edge boxes and sensors and buildings are into US buildings. You buildings are into US buildings. You buildings are into US buildings. You you're going to pay more for that stuff, you're going to pay more for that stuff, you're going to pay more for that stuff, right? So, you know, I think I think right? So, you know, I think I think right? So, you know, I think I think we're going to have to flush out what we're going to have to flush out what we're going to have to flush out what the right pricing is based on some of the right pricing is based on some of the right pricing is based on some of the exchanges and US-made products. Um, the exchanges and US-made products. Um, the exchanges and US-made products. Um, unless they unless he realizes that he unless they unless he realizes that he unless they unless he realizes that he made a mistake with Vietnam and Taiwan made a mistake with Vietnam and Taiwan made a mistake with Vietnam and Taiwan and Singapore with the tariff sizes. Uh, and Singapore with the tariff sizes. Uh, and Singapore with the tariff sizes. Uh, you know, if you look at the EU, right? you know, if you look at the EU, right? you know, if you look at the EU, right? So think about everything that's been So think about everything that's been So think about everything that's been made in Lithuania and Czech Republic. made in Lithuania and Czech Republic. made in Lithuania and Czech Republic. Those guy, those guys are, you know, Those guy, those guys are, you know, Those guy, those guys are, you know, Telonica being the number one out of Telonica being the number one out of Telonica being the number one out of Lithuania, out of you, you know, if Lithuania, out of you, you know, if Lithuania, out of you, you know, if they're at 10%, they're going to be 25% they're at 10%, they're going to be 25% they're at 10%, they're going to be 25% less than anything coming out of Asia, less than anything coming out of Asia, less than anything coming out of Asia, right? So now we're moving our right? So now we're moving our right? So now we're moving our manufacturing to Europe and Eastern manufacturing to Europe and Eastern manufacturing to Europe and Eastern Europe to get to here for IoT product.

Europe to get to here for IoT product. Europe to get to here for IoT product. Sounds like the manufacturing needs to Sounds like the manufacturing needs to Sounds like the manufacturing needs to all move to Russia because apparently all move to Russia because apparently all move to Russia because apparently they didn't get any tariffs. So you they didn't get any tariffs. So you they didn't get any tariffs. So you know, Yeah. But you know what? That was know, Yeah. But you know what? That was know, Yeah. But you know what? That was true. You know, as as as as Leonard said true. You know, as as as as Leonard said true. You know, as as as as Leonard said in the beginning, the conversations that in the beginning, the conversations that in the beginning, the conversations that was brought up twice in the last 24 was brought up twice in the last 24 was brought up twice in the last 24 hours. Where was Russia on that long ass hours. Where was Russia on that long ass hours. Where was Russia on that long ass laundry list of of percentages in laundry list of of percentages in laundry list of of percentages in somebody's back pocket? somebody's back pocket? somebody's back pocket? And where is the factchecking on all And where is the factchecking on all And where is the factchecking on all these numbers? Like I was trying to look these numbers? Like I was trying to look these numbers? Like I was trying to look at this like this they saying. Yeah, they're open source. Yeah, saying. Yeah, they're open source. Yeah, 29% from Europe. I'm just like I was 29% from Europe. I'm just like I was 29% from Europe. I'm just like I was looking more closely and the average is looking more closely and the average is looking more closely and the average is 1% tariffs on US. I think they just used 1% tariffs on US. I think they just used 1% tariffs on US. I think they just used chat GPT to create that chart. I believe chat GPT to create that chart. I believe chat GPT to create that chart. I believe he's also counting uh that you know is he's also counting uh that you know is he's also counting uh that you know is is is counting other types of taxes that is is counting other types of taxes that is is counting other types of taxes that is that is nothing to do with import and is that is nothing to do with import and is that is nothing to do with import and you're just like what the [ __ ] I mean you're just like what the [ __ ] I mean you're just like what the [ __ ] I mean like it's it's where is that math coming like it's it's where is that math coming like it's it's where is that math coming from and why is no one just going from and why is no one just going from and why is no one just going through that list and saying this is through that list and saying this is through that list and saying this is people are saying it. It's just it's people are saying it. It's just it's people are saying it. It's just it's just economy. It just I think the just economy. It just I think the just economy. It just I think the solution is going to be I think Steve solution is going to be I think Steve solution is going to be I think Steve you mentioned it. I think the idea is you mentioned it. I think the idea is you mentioned it. I think the idea is like containers ships that have like containers ships that have like containers ships that have factories on them that are sitting in factories on them that are sitting in factories on them that are sitting in international waters international waters international waters manufacturer there.

Oh my gosh, you're a genius. Holy crap. Oh my gosh, you're a genius. Holy crap. Boom. There you go. Oh my god. Boom. There you go. Oh my god. Boom. There you go. Oh my god. So, is it time to invest in So, is it time to invest in So, is it time to invest in I like that idea. There you go. Let's do I like that idea. There you go. Let's do I like that idea. There you go. Let's do it. Let's get it. Let's get it. Let's get some as the uh as the rightful some as the uh as the rightful some as the uh as the rightful entrepreneurial knucklehead of this entrepreneurial knucklehead of this entrepreneurial knucklehead of this group. I love that idea. I got I think I group. I love that idea. I got I think I group. I love that idea. I got I think I can get that thing funded too. Yeah. can get that thing funded too. Yeah. can get that thing funded too. Yeah. Tariffree zone. Tariffree zone. Tariffree zone. Terree international waters. Yeah. Yeah. Terree international waters. Yeah. Yeah. Terree international waters. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of in setting sending uh the Instead of in setting sending uh the Instead of in setting sending uh the sending the skiffs of drugs from the sending the skiffs of drugs from the sending the skiffs of drugs from the mother ship, we're going to send skiffs mother ship, we're going to send skiffs mother ship, we're going to send skiffs of PC boards and boxes of There you go. of PC boards and boxes of There you go. of PC boards and boxes of There you go. Until Doge catches wind of it. Oh [ __ ] Until Doge catches wind of it. Oh [ __ ] Until Doge catches wind of it. Oh [ __ ] Here we go. True. There's There's one in Here we go. True. There's There's one in Here we go. True. There's There's one in every crowd. every crowd. every crowd. Pirates. But you know what was really Pirates. But you know what was really Pirates. But you know what was really funny about that chart? It it said funny about that chart? It it said funny about that chart? It it said discounted tariff. Like you're getting a discounted tariff. Like you're getting a discounted tariff. Like you're getting a deal. deal. deal. That's true. They got a deal. I got a That's true. They got a deal. I got a That's true. They got a deal. I got a deal. deal. deal. 99% not 25. It was going to be 20 or 25% 99% not 25. It was going to be 20 or 25% 99% not 25. It was going to be 20 or 25% across the board. I dropped it to 10% across the board. I dropped it to 10% across the board. I dropped it to 10% cuz I'm fund I'm fund I gave you a deal, cuz I'm fund I'm fund I gave you a deal, cuz I'm fund I'm fund I gave you a deal, you know, on your friend. You you you you know, on your friend. You you you you know, on your friend. You you you the best Trump impression there, you the best Trump impression there, you the best Trump impression there, you know. So So back to the the tit for tat know. So So back to the the tit for tat know. So So back to the the tit for tat like with Olivier here. Olivier, I when like with Olivier here. Olivier, I when like with Olivier here. Olivier, I when I think of tariffs, I think it on a I think of tariffs, I think it on a I think of tariffs, I think it on a product byproduct basis between product byproduct basis between product byproduct basis between countries, not not a blanket thing. And countries, not not a blanket thing. And countries, not not a blanket thing. And so you might know this. What do you so you might know this. What do you so you might know this. What do you think the tariff in France is on

think the tariff in France is on think the tariff in France is on American wine? It wouldn't surprise me American wine? It wouldn't surprise me American wine? It wouldn't surprise me if it was high cuz they want to protect if it was high cuz they want to protect if it was high cuz they want to protect their wine industry. I'm assuming it's their wine industry. I'm assuming it's their wine industry. I'm assuming it's huge, but it doesn't mean everything is huge, but it doesn't mean everything is huge, but it doesn't mean everything is huge. It's just, you know, again, it's huge. It's just, you know, again, it's huge. It's just, you know, again, it's it's like it's use a scalpel, you know. it's like it's use a scalpel, you know. it's like it's use a scalpel, you know. this whole deal about, oh, it's we're this whole deal about, oh, it's we're this whole deal about, oh, it's we're starting a trade war and oh my god, starting a trade war and oh my god, starting a trade war and oh my god, retaliation. If you're doing it, you retaliation. If you're doing it, you retaliation. If you're doing it, you could say, well, actually, the other could say, well, actually, the other could say, well, actually, the other country started the trade war on these country started the trade war on these country started the trade war on these products and we're just trying to be products and we're just trying to be products and we're just trying to be fair or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. To level fair or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. To level fair or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. To level it out. And so, uh, but but I don't know it out. And so, uh, but but I don't know it out. And so, uh, but but I don't know the answers to it. the answers to it. the answers to it. You know, in my research about the You know, in my research about the You know, in my research about the tariffs and reciprocal tariffs and so tariffs and reciprocal tariffs and so tariffs and reciprocal tariffs and so on, I learned that the US is actually on, I learned that the US is actually on, I learned that the US is actually charging a 25% tariff on pickup trucks charging a 25% tariff on pickup trucks charging a 25% tariff on pickup trucks imported to the US. I read about that. imported to the US. I read about that. imported to the US. I read about that. Yes, that's like an old one. Something Yes, that's like an old one. Something Yes, that's like an old one. Something related something related to chickens. related something related to chickens. related something related to chickens. Did you Did you discover that India was Did you Did you discover that India was Did you Did you discover that India was imposing a 25% tariff on imposing a 25% tariff on imposing a 25% tariff on Harley-Davidson?

Harley-Davidson? Harley-Davidson? What? Well, then we're going to tariff What? Well, then we're going to tariff What? Well, then we're going to tariff the hell out of their motorcycles. the hell out of their motorcycles. the hell out of their motorcycles. Exactly. Yes. Promote that. What do you Exactly. Yes. Promote that. What do you Exactly. Yes. Promote that. What do you mean that? That's the mean that? That's the mean that? That's the only to ride an Indian motorcycle in the only to ride an Indian motorcycle in the only to ride an Indian motorcycle in the United States. Okay. With your whole United States. Okay. With your whole United States. Okay. With your whole family on the motorcycle with you, which family on the motorcycle with you, which family on the motorcycle with you, which is pretty normal in India, right? Yeah. is pretty normal in India, right? Yeah. is pretty normal in India, right? Yeah. It's a that's a normal thing in Asia It's a that's a normal thing in Asia It's a that's a normal thing in Asia still. Yeah. I mean, everybody's piled still. Yeah. I mean, everybody's piled still. Yeah. I mean, everybody's piled on. Here's the question that I had on. Here's the question that I had on. Here's the question that I had though. Um I mean irrespective of though. Um I mean irrespective of though. Um I mean irrespective of anything else in the digital age today anything else in the digital age today anything else in the digital age today almost every single thing that you have almost every single thing that you have almost every single thing that you have has a piece of silicon in it. Where does has a piece of silicon in it. Where does has a piece of silicon in it. Where does that come from? Most China. that come from? Most China. that come from? Most China. Yeah. Silicon Yeah. Silicon Yeah. Silicon Valley some polluting Valley some polluting Valley some polluting 18A. This is the problem. Um now you 18A. This is the problem. Um now you 18A. This is the problem. Um now you know like we had the chips act that know like we had the chips act that know like we had the chips act that tried to address the shift of um chip tried to address the shift of um chip tried to address the shift of um chip manufacturing from basically Taiwan uh manufacturing from basically Taiwan uh manufacturing from basically Taiwan uh to the United States, right? And that to the United States, right? And that to the United States, right? And that was that that was an impossible lift and was that that was an impossible lift and was that that was an impossible lift and shift shift shift um aspiration to begin with, right? Um um aspiration to begin with, right? Um um aspiration to begin with, right? Um $50 billion is not even close to uh $50 billion is not even close to uh $50 billion is not even close to uh shifting the economics and then lifting shifting the economics and then lifting shifting the economics and then lifting that all that legacy back on shore.

that all that legacy back on shore. that all that legacy back on shore. This is even a bigger issue that we're This is even a bigger issue that we're This is even a bigger issue that we're talking about. We're talking about the talking about. We're talking about the talking about. We're talking about the entire frigin electronics industry where entire frigin electronics industry where entire frigin electronics industry where you look at it in its entirety, almost you look at it in its entirety, almost you look at it in its entirety, almost all of it goes through China. And so, all of it goes through China. And so, all of it goes through China. And so, how are you going to dismantle all of how are you going to dismantle all of how are you going to dismantle all of that and then restructure it? And that that and then restructure it? And that that and then restructure it? And that that's the crazy thing. And you know, that's the crazy thing. And you know, that's the crazy thing. And you know, your point about Quicktail and what your point about Quicktail and what your point about Quicktail and what they're doing and uh onshoring here in they're doing and uh onshoring here in they're doing and uh onshoring here in the US, there's two reasons why you do the US, there's two reasons why you do the US, there's two reasons why you do that. number one is just for access, that. number one is just for access, that. number one is just for access, right? But then when you think in terms right? But then when you think in terms right? But then when you think in terms of pricing and cost, uh it's still of pricing and cost, uh it's still of pricing and cost, uh it's still cheaper in China. And so a lot of these cheaper in China. And so a lot of these cheaper in China. And so a lot of these companies, unless it's an access companies, unless it's an access companies, unless it's an access problem, they're not going to onshore. problem, they're not going to onshore. problem, they're not going to onshore. And we're No, but it's a it's a And we're No, but it's a it's a And we're No, but it's a it's a political uh decision as well. I mean, political uh decision as well. I mean, political uh decision as well. I mean, they could not sell to the they could not sell to the they could not sell to the access. It's a supply issue, but it's a access. It's a supply issue, but it's a access. It's a supply issue, but it's a quick tomarket issue, but it's quick tomarket issue, but it's quick tomarket issue, but it's definitely a political issue. Well, I definitely a political issue. Well, I definitely a political issue. Well, I mean it has been it has been but like mean it has been it has been but like mean it has been it has been but like what I was saying the access access to what I was saying the access access to what I was saying the access access to market the reason why a lot of Chinese market the reason why a lot of Chinese market the reason why a lot of Chinese brands especially chip and module makers brands especially chip and module makers brands especially chip and module makers have it's you know started having a huge have it's you know started having a huge have it's you know started having a huge issue actually in the US is because of issue actually in the US is because of issue actually in the US is because of uh the political the geopolitics and uh the political the geopolitics and uh the political the geopolitics and then the the security concern then the the security concern then the the security concern right but what's really interesting is right but what's really interesting is right but what's really interesting is how you've outlined how quicktail has how you've outlined how quicktail has how you've outlined how quicktail has somehow successfully managed to address somehow successfully managed to address somehow successfully managed to address the security stuff, you know, provide the security stuff, you know, provide the security stuff, you know, provide transparency on shore so that that their

transparency on shore so that that their transparency on shore so that that their products actually can be sold. But products actually can be sold. But products actually can be sold. But that's one thing. The other thing is that's one thing. The other thing is that's one thing. The other thing is then the economics of it, right? And um then the economics of it, right? And um then the economics of it, right? And um that's a separate thing for everyone that's a separate thing for everyone that's a separate thing for everyone else and other and you know for IoT I else and other and you know for IoT I else and other and you know for IoT I can totally understand it. It's one of can totally understand it. It's one of can totally understand it. It's one of those uh it's basically a commodity at those uh it's basically a commodity at those uh it's basically a commodity at the commodity layer of this uh uh you the commodity layer of this uh uh you the commodity layer of this uh uh you know um electronics uh Uber value chain know um electronics uh Uber value chain know um electronics uh Uber value chain for higher order stuff, higher value for higher order stuff, higher value for higher order stuff, higher value stuff. I think it's going to play out stuff. I think it's going to play out stuff. I think it's going to play out completely differently. I think a lot of completely differently. I think a lot of completely differently. I think a lot of it's still going to stay in China it's still going to stay in China it's still going to stay in China because it's still buttass cheap and because it's still buttass cheap and because it's still buttass cheap and China can still make things cheaper and China can still make things cheaper and China can still make things cheaper and so can all these other countries where so can all these other countries where so can all these other countries where you can jack up you'll have to jack up you can jack up you'll have to jack up you can jack up you'll have to jack up the tariffs really high uh to um change the tariffs really high uh to um change the tariffs really high uh to um change the sourcing decisions. Uh so I don't the sourcing decisions. Uh so I don't the sourcing decisions. Uh so I don't know it's it's going to be I'll add know it's it's going to be I'll add know it's it's going to be I'll add another piece of that um OPEX versus another piece of that um OPEX versus another piece of that um OPEX versus capex. Yeah, I've had a lot of capex. Yeah, I've had a lot of capex. Yeah, I've had a lot of discussions in the last couple weeks, discussions in the last couple weeks, discussions in the last couple weeks, especially last week at the channel especially last week at the channel especially last week at the channel partner show in Vegas, uh, of even if partner show in Vegas, uh, of even if partner show in Vegas, uh, of even if the tariffs c cause the price of the the tariffs c cause the price of the the tariffs c cause the price of the equipment to go up, yeah, we are still equipment to go up, yeah, we are still equipment to go up, yeah, we are still moving towards a very OPEX related moving towards a very OPEX related moving towards a very OPEX related marketplace. So if that means your marketplace. So if that means your marketplace. So if that means your monthly charge per something goes up by monthly charge per something goes up by monthly charge per something goes up by that you're not most people are not that you're not most people are not that you're not most people are not going to care that much because it's going to care that much because it's going to care that much because it's such a minor thing on that to the opex.

such a minor thing on that to the opex. such a minor thing on that to the opex. Yeah. Wow. But if you're an opex company Yeah. Wow. But if you're an opex company Yeah. Wow. But if you're an opex company basically you're providing these basically you're providing these basically you're providing these services. Correct. And it's a hit on services. Correct. And it's a hit on services. Correct. And it's a hit on you. Yeah. Margin your your your end you. Yeah. Margin your your your end you. Yeah. Margin your your your end customer is saying hey that's not my customer is saying hey that's not my customer is saying hey that's not my problem. That's right. Correct. Right. problem. That's right. Correct. Right. problem. That's right. Correct. Right. But I I will say so Quiptail so I mean But I I will say so Quiptail so I mean But I I will say so Quiptail so I mean look Patrick Quan look Patrick Quan look Patrick Quan is he that's a different dude man. Yeah is he that's a different dude man. Yeah is he that's a different dude man. Yeah I agree he is he he no truly Patrick I agree he is he he no truly Patrick I agree he is he he no truly Patrick Quan is like infinitely a genius. I Quan is like infinitely a genius. I Quan is like infinitely a genius. I agree. I mean, from day one when there agree. I mean, from day one when there agree. I mean, from day one when there were only maybe 30 people there, I was were only maybe 30 people there, I was were only maybe 30 people there, I was talking to Patrick and and I kept, you talking to Patrick and and I kept, you talking to Patrick and and I kept, you know, I kept watching them and kept know, I kept watching them and kept know, I kept watching them and kept watching them and then I noticed the watching them and then I noticed the watching them and then I noticed the relationship between Quicktail and relationship between Quicktail and relationship between Quicktail and Qualcomm. Qualcomm would put out new Qualcomm. Qualcomm would put out new Qualcomm. Qualcomm would put out new modem chipsets. Yep. And they would have modem chipsets. Yep. And they would have modem chipsets. Yep. And they would have bug after bug after bug after bug and bug after bug after bug after bug and bug after bug after bug after bug and Quicktail would fix them Quicktail would fix them Quicktail would fix them and then it would take Qualcomm a little and then it would take Qualcomm a little and then it would take Qualcomm a little bit of time to actually catch up.

bit of time to actually catch up. bit of time to actually catch up. This happened over the years. Patrick This happened over the years. Patrick This happened over the years. Patrick started making the move over to North started making the move over to North started making the move over to North American manufacturing in in various American manufacturing in in various American manufacturing in in various ways. Yep. Correct. Because of that ways. Yep. Correct. Because of that ways. Yep. Correct. Because of that agree ahead of everyone else in doing agree ahead of everyone else in doing agree ahead of everyone else in doing that. No doubt about it. and Norbert and that. No doubt about it. and Norbert and that. No doubt about it. and Norbert and Peter Fowler and those guys being able Peter Fowler and those guys being able Peter Fowler and those guys being able to execute on that strategy are it's to execute on that strategy are it's to execute on that strategy are it's phenomenal. I agree. And then that was phenomenal. I agree. And then that was phenomenal. I agree. And then that was the other end of it, right? You saw you the other end of it, right? You saw you the other end of it, right? You saw you saw Jamalto Centurion and all of them saw Jamalto Centurion and all of them saw Jamalto Centurion and all of them basically get consumed. Quicktail ate basically get consumed. Quicktail ate basically get consumed. Quicktail ate them them them up like come on over here and we're up like come on over here and we're up like come on over here and we're going to take care of everything. And going to take care of everything. And going to take care of everything. And I'm like I'm like this is amazing to I'm like I'm like this is amazing to I'm like I'm like this is amazing to watch. But I do think that we're going watch. But I do think that we're going watch. But I do think that we're going to have to have some kind to have to have some kind to have to have some kind of relief for Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, of relief for Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, of relief for Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Singapore in those areas Singapore in those areas Singapore in those areas because we told people to go from China because we told people to go from China because we told people to go from China to those countries for manufacturing of to those countries for manufacturing of to those countries for manufacturing of IoT products. We told them, they did it. IoT products. We told them, they did it. IoT products. We told them, they did it. They followed what we told them in the They followed what we told them in the They followed what we told them in the rules that we were set up. And now we're rules that we were set up. And now we're rules that we were set up. And now we're screwing those countries on the tariff screwing those countries on the tariff screwing those countries on the tariff on on the amounts of tariffs. It's not on on the amounts of tariffs. It's not on on the amounts of tariffs. It's not It's just wrong. It's just absolutely It's just wrong. It's just absolutely It's just wrong. It's just absolutely wrong. I mean, you encourage them to do wrong. I mean, you encourage them to do wrong. I mean, you encourage them to do it and then you turn around and well, we it and then you turn around and well, we it and then you turn around and well, we the US government encouraged the US government encouraged the US government encouraged and from a policy perspective um guided and from a policy perspective um guided and from a policy perspective um guided or sort of nudged along companies to do or sort of nudged along companies to do or sort of nudged along companies to do that. It has I I don't think it has any that. It has I I don't think it has any that. It has I I don't think it has any well it does have something to do with well it does have something to do with well it does have something to do with the target comp the countries and the target comp the countries and the target comp the countries and markets but um yeah you know we have to

markets but um yeah you know we have to markets but um yeah you know we have to look at it properly right it's like look at it properly right it's like look at it properly right it's like tariffs it's thinking that you know tariffs it's thinking that you know tariffs it's thinking that you know China or anyone else is going to pay for China or anyone else is going to pay for China or anyone else is going to pay for it is not right right we the US it is not right right we the US it is not right right we the US government charges a tax when that thing government charges a tax when that thing government charges a tax when that thing lands in the United States right and lands in the United States right and lands in the United States right and clears customs and that that that's clears customs and that that that's clears customs and that that that's where you I mean if you can't have that where you I mean if you can't have that where you I mean if you can't have that basic um you you can't establish lish basic um you you can't establish lish basic um you you can't establish lish that basic understanding you then the that basic understanding you then the that basic understanding you then the rest of the conversation is totally rest of the conversation is totally rest of the conversation is totally twisted and then you have to scratch twisted and then you have to scratch twisted and then you have to scratch your head about the policy it's like your head about the policy it's like your head about the policy it's like well if your assumption understanding of well if your assumption understanding of well if your assumption understanding of tariffs is wrong then everything else is tariffs is wrong then everything else is tariffs is wrong then everything else is going to be wrong after that right um going to be wrong after that right um going to be wrong after that right um but that's why I wanted to to make sure but that's why I wanted to to make sure but that's why I wanted to to make sure that we we're at least on the same page that we we're at least on the same page that we we're at least on the same page there because some of us might not agree there because some of us might not agree there because some of us might not agree some some of us might think that you some some of us might think that you some some of us might think that you know the other guy pays for it it's know the other guy pays for it it's know the other guy pays for it it's going to be it's going to be interesting going to be it's going to be interesting going to be it's going to be interesting to see where the IoT to see where the IoT to see where the IoT distribution numbers are over the next distribution numbers are over the next distribution numbers are over the next couple months. If this thing can if this couple months. If this thing can if this couple months. If this thing can if this thing is in concrete, doesn't change, thing is in concrete, doesn't change, thing is in concrete, doesn't change, numbers don't change, negotiations don't numbers don't change, negotiations don't numbers don't change, negotiations don't change, then I think the IoT hardware change, then I think the IoT hardware change, then I think the IoT hardware market, it's going to be interesting to market, it's going to be interesting to market, it's going to be interesting to see what the numbers look like. You you see what the numbers look like. You you see what the numbers look like. You you mentioned opex, right? So, here's thing mentioned opex, right? So, here's thing mentioned opex, right? So, here's thing that I think that I think that I think um is it's probably the pink elephant in um is it's probably the pink elephant in um is it's probably the pink elephant in the room. You have to be the room. You have to be the room. You have to be drunk in with a bunch of your friends in drunk in with a bunch of your friends in drunk in with a bunch of your friends in a club somewhere in Soul, Korea in uh in a club somewhere in Soul, Korea in uh in a club somewhere in Soul, Korea in uh in a basement to to bring this thing up.

a basement to to bring this thing up. a basement to to bring this thing up. But it's the service. So, let's bring it But it's the service. So, let's bring it But it's the service. So, let's bring it up to everywhere in the world. Yeah. up to everywhere in the world. Yeah. up to everywhere in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Well, see, I have plenty of Yeah. Well, see, I have plenty of Yeah. Well, see, I have plenty of experience in that, so you know, I can experience in that, so you know, I can experience in that, so you know, I can do it totally sober. Um, but it's the do it totally sober. Um, but it's the do it totally sober. Um, but it's the service surplus that the United States service surplus that the United States service surplus that the United States has and how that can become, you know, has and how that can become, you know, has and how that can become, you know, like there's a lot of folks that say, like there's a lot of folks that say, like there's a lot of folks that say, "Oh, there's nothing these companies, "Oh, there's nothing these companies, "Oh, there's nothing these companies, these countries can do um to retaliate these countries can do um to retaliate these countries can do um to retaliate as like, well, maybe not on the good as like, well, maybe not on the good as like, well, maybe not on the good side, but definitely on the services side, but definitely on the services side, but definitely on the services side cuz the US brought up OPEX." Yeah. side cuz the US brought up OPEX." Yeah. side cuz the US brought up OPEX." Yeah. the US 80% of more than 80% probably of the US 80% of more than 80% probably of the US 80% of more than 80% probably of our economy is our economy is our economy is serviceoriented and these other serviceoriented and these other serviceoriented and these other countries can cut off the tap pretty countries can cut off the tap pretty countries can cut off the tap pretty quickly and it's easy to do that and it quickly and it's easy to do that and it quickly and it's easy to do that and it is easy there's already you know is easy there's already you know is easy there's already you know regulatory momentum to shift some of regulatory momentum to shift some of regulatory momentum to shift some of that because in fact we run a huge the that because in fact we run a huge the that because in fact we run a huge the United States runs a huge service United States runs a huge service United States runs a huge service surplus against the rest of the world surplus against the rest of the world surplus against the rest of the world because that's our economy. And so I because that's our economy. And so I because that's our economy. And so I think this is, you know, and think this is, you know, and think this is, you know, and unfortunately, you know, and I get it unfortunately, you know, and I get it unfortunately, you know, and I get it why there is this discourse around um why there is this discourse around um why there is this discourse around um repatriating manufacturing and all this repatriating manufacturing and all this repatriating manufacturing and all this other stuff, but you know, the the thing other stuff, but you know, the the thing other stuff, but you know, the the thing is that those is that those is that those conversations eventually just degrade conversations eventually just degrade conversations eventually just degrade into this question of, well, okay, who's into this question of, well, okay, who's into this question of, well, okay, who's going to assemble iPhones in the United going to assemble iPhones in the United going to assemble iPhones in the United States? And where are you going to find States? And where are you going to find States? And where are you going to find the workforce to do that? Wait a minute.

the workforce to do that? Wait a minute. the workforce to do that? Wait a minute. How many people are going to pay $1,800 How many people are going to pay $1,800 How many people are going to pay $1,800 for one? Yeah. But like H Chappelle said, he's like, I But like H Chappelle said, he's like, I don't want to make the Nikes. I just don't want to make the Nikes. I just don't want to make the Nikes. I just want to wear the Nikes. You know, want to wear the Nikes. You know, want to wear the Nikes. You know, but but you know, this notion that there but but you know, this notion that there but but you know, this notion that there isn't any other recourse for the the isn't any other recourse for the the isn't any other recourse for the the entire the rest of the world is entire the rest of the world is entire the rest of the world is absolutely insane. absolutely insane. absolutely insane. um you know if these countries decide to um you know if these countries decide to um you know if these countries decide to now really uh ratchet down on um the US now really uh ratchet down on um the US now really uh ratchet down on um the US in terms of service and we're talking in terms of service and we're talking in terms of service and we're talking about the the metas I mean advertising about the the metas I mean advertising about the the metas I mean advertising that's their business how easy is it that's their business how easy is it that's their business how easy is it just to just to just to basically dismantle all of that stuff basically dismantle all of that stuff basically dismantle all of that stuff globally and then just destroy their globally and then just destroy their globally and then just destroy their business um Google same thing and and by business um Google same thing and and by business um Google same thing and and by the way and by the way in the U they the way and by the way in the U they the way and by the way in the U they were just waiting for an excuse to do were just waiting for an excuse to do were just waiting for an excuse to do that because of everyone being tired of that because of everyone being tired of that because of everyone being tired of being ruled by the US for everything. being ruled by the US for everything. being ruled by the US for everything. Now, here's the excuse. It's like, hey, Now, here's the excuse. It's like, hey, Now, here's the excuse. It's like, hey, you know, so we have to do something you know, so we have to do something you know, so we have to do something about it, guys. And I think that's the about it, guys. And I think that's the about it, guys. And I think that's the next ball to drop. It's like, oh, so you next ball to drop. It's like, oh, so you next ball to drop. It's like, oh, so you thought, okay, you're going to play this thought, okay, you're going to play this thought, okay, you're going to play this game, we're going to play this one. Be game, we're going to play this one. Be game, we're going to play this one. Be by everywhere, you know, and WeChat. I by everywhere, you know, and WeChat. I by everywhere, you know, and WeChat. I mean, and even this morning I finally mean, and even this morning I finally mean, and even this morning I finally brought up was data centers and how this brought up was data centers and how this brought up was data centers and how this is going to affect data centers and is going to affect data centers and is going to affect data centers and cloud cloud cloud services up on CNBC this morning. I services up on CNBC this morning. I services up on CNBC this morning. I mean, Microsoft backing out. Yeah, mean, Microsoft backing out. Yeah, mean, Microsoft backing out. Yeah, Microsoft backing out on data center AI Microsoft backing out on data center AI Microsoft backing out on data center AI data center investments like so all the

data center investments like so all the data center investments like so all the stuff I mean you have deepse plus this stuff I mean you have deepse plus this stuff I mean you have deepse plus this stuff, all these things stacking on top stuff, all these things stacking on top stuff, all these things stacking on top of each other. We're going to be looking of each other. We're going to be looking of each other. We're going to be looking at a really goofy um Yeah. But aren't at a really goofy um Yeah. But aren't at a really goofy um Yeah. But aren't aren't we aren't we really just I mean aren't we aren't we really just I mean aren't we aren't we really just I mean for me the way that I look at this the for me the way that I look at this the for me the way that I look at this the people that are not impacted are those people that are not impacted are those people that are not impacted are those that have the money. that have the money. that have the money. Of course they're all right. So isn't Of course they're all right. So isn't Of course they're all right. So isn't this just a reinvention of trickle down this just a reinvention of trickle down this just a reinvention of trickle down economics? Oh god. Oh ouch. economics? Oh god. Oh ouch. economics? Oh god. Oh ouch. Oh you bad. Hey Bill. Hey. I'm just the Oh you bad. Hey Bill. Hey. I'm just the Oh you bad. Hey Bill. Hey. I'm just the messenger. I'm just the messenger. messenger. I'm just the messenger. messenger. I'm just the messenger. I think I think of us. Oh, I was I think I think of us. Oh, I was I think I think of us. Oh, I was skipping over that. But be uh we're down skipping over that. But be uh we're down skipping over that. But be uh we're down and we're going to be out. Don't do and we're going to be out. Don't do and we're going to be out. Don't do that. There's a really good uh column that. There's a really good uh column that. There's a really good uh column from Thomas Freriedman on the New York from Thomas Freriedman on the New York from Thomas Freriedman on the New York Times I posted on my LinkedIn about kind Times I posted on my LinkedIn about kind Times I posted on my LinkedIn about kind of the the gravitational pull toward of the the gravitational pull toward of the the gravitational pull toward China as a as a center for kind of tech China as a as a center for kind of tech China as a as a center for kind of tech moving forward. Yes. A lot of these moving forward. Yes. A lot of these moving forward. Yes. A lot of these tariff moves. And so if people should tariff moves. And so if people should tariff moves. And so if people should read that, I think it's interesting. Uh read that, I think it's interesting. Uh read that, I think it's interesting. Uh because now now these new trading because now now these new trading because now now these new trading alliances are building out like you know alliances are building out like you know alliances are building out like you know South Korea and and and Vietnam and and South Korea and and and Vietnam and and South Korea and and and Vietnam and and China and and get Thailand are getting China and and get Thailand are getting China and and get Thailand are getting together to create their own trading together to create their own trading together to create their own trading blocks. Yeah. The more Yeah. And that is blocks. Yeah. The more Yeah. And that is blocks. Yeah. The more Yeah. And that is on the US and uh that becomes a result on the US and uh that becomes a result on the US and uh that becomes a result beat of what we're doing now. We're beat of what we're doing now. We're beat of what we're doing now. We're we're scraping Whoops. No, it is it's we're scraping Whoops. No, it is it's we're scraping Whoops. No, it is it's not if um you know it's happening. And not if um you know it's happening. And not if um you know it's happening. And to to Olivier's point, the past um

to to Olivier's point, the past um to to Olivier's point, the past um probably I don't know like decade probably I don't know like decade probably I don't know like decade um ever since um the Cam uh Cambridge um ever since um the Cam uh Cambridge um ever since um the Cam uh Cambridge Analytics thingy happened and people Analytics thingy happened and people Analytics thingy happened and people start to realize what kind of business start to realize what kind of business start to realize what kind of business model Meta had and oh hey these guys are model Meta had and oh hey these guys are model Meta had and oh hey these guys are getting becoming getting becoming getting becoming massively valued companies because of um massively valued companies because of um massively valued companies because of um ads basically and uh the brokering of ads basically and uh the brokering of ads basically and uh the brokering of data. Yeah. Um they they have been data. Yeah. Um they they have been data. Yeah. Um they they have been instituting policy to that um will start instituting policy to that um will start instituting policy to that um will start to clamp down to clamp down to clamp down on basically the business model that has on basically the business model that has on basically the business model that has floated most of US tech which is the floated most of US tech which is the floated most of US tech which is the advertising. I mean Google what I mean advertising. I mean Google what I mean advertising. I mean Google what I mean what did this company do? They make what did this company do? They make what did this company do? They make money off of ads. you kill all that money off of ads. you kill all that money off of ads. you kill all that stuff stuff stuff off, these companies will collapse very off, these companies will collapse very off, these companies will collapse very quickly. If the world does that in quickly. If the world does that in quickly. If the world does that in unison, kind of like what has happened unison, kind of like what has happened unison, kind of like what has happened from the good standpoint, right? Um I from the good standpoint, right? Um I from the good standpoint, right? Um I with the Trump administration with the Trump administration with the Trump administration instituting sort of, you know, basically instituting sort of, you know, basically instituting sort of, you know, basically dropping a tariff grenade dropping a tariff grenade dropping a tariff grenade uh into a world globe, right? And uh into a world globe, right? And uh into a world globe, right? And basically blowing everything up. I would basically blowing everything up. I would basically blowing everything up. I would call it more of a tariff dropped a call it more of a tariff dropped a call it more of a tariff dropped a tariff. Tariff grenade, but that's a tariff. Tariff grenade, but that's a tariff. Tariff grenade, but that's a different different different tariff grenade.

tariff grenade. tariff grenade. Tariff deuce. Well, you know, the Tariff deuce. Well, you know, the Tariff deuce. Well, you know, the market's only down 1,600 points today, market's only down 1,600 points today, market's only down 1,600 points today, so it'll be fine. It's fine. Yeah, it'll so it'll be fine. It's fine. Yeah, it'll so it'll be fine. It's fine. Yeah, it'll be fine. Yeah, this is fine. This is be fine. Yeah, this is fine. This is be fine. Yeah, this is fine. This is fine. You know, you gota you got to have fine. You know, you gota you got to have fine. You know, you gota you got to have some pain for the gain, Pete. Yeah, some pain for the gain, Pete. Yeah, some pain for the gain, Pete. Yeah, that's what some people keep telling me. that's what some people keep telling me. that's what some people keep telling me. And I'm saying, good luck with your And I'm saying, good luck with your And I'm saying, good luck with your portfolio. Oh, don't even look at it. portfolio. Oh, don't even look at it. portfolio. Oh, don't even look at it. Freaking don't even look at it. Yeah, Freaking don't even look at it. Yeah, Freaking don't even look at it. Yeah, you know, here I am turning 70 and I'm you know, here I am turning 70 and I'm you know, here I am turning 70 and I'm thinking about retiring and now my, you thinking about retiring and now my, you thinking about retiring and now my, you know, I'm like going, "Fuck, I'm gonna know, I'm like going, "Fuck, I'm gonna know, I'm like going, "Fuck, I'm gonna have to work for another 10 years." have to work for another 10 years." have to work for another 10 years." You're gonna have to take a Walmart You're gonna have to take a Walmart You're gonna have to take a Walmart greeter job, man. And I can tell you, greeter job, man. And I can tell you, greeter job, man. And I can tell you, you guys and the industry don't want you guys and the industry don't want you guys and the industry don't want Steve Rubber around for another [ __ ] Steve Rubber around for another [ __ ] Steve Rubber around for another [ __ ] five or 10 years. I can tell you that five or 10 years. I can tell you that five or 10 years. I can tell you that right now. right now. right now. Well, you know, um, we don't want you to Well, you know, um, we don't want you to Well, you know, um, we don't want you to quit coffee talk. We always want you on quit coffee talk. We always want you on quit coffee talk. We always want you on here talking crap, dude. That's right. here talking crap, dude. That's right. here talking crap, dude. That's right. We'll always have IoT coffee talk, We'll always have IoT coffee talk, We'll always have IoT coffee talk, right? while I build that manufacturing right? while I build that manufacturing right? while I build that manufacturing ship. Yeah, that's right. Get that ship. Yeah, that's right. Get that ship. Yeah, that's right. Get that container ship going. Well, there container ship going. Well, there container ship going. Well, there there's the option of a space as well. there's the option of a space as well. there's the option of a space as well. Right. Move for Mars. Manufacturing in Right. Move for Mars. Manufacturing in Right. Move for Mars. Manufacturing in space. Yes, that's there you go. That's space. Yes, that's there you go. That's space. Yes, that's there you go. That's what Blue Origins plan is actually.

what Blue Origins plan is actually. what Blue Origins plan is actually. Yeah, I know. With the orbital reef that Yeah, I know. With the orbital reef that Yeah, I know. With the orbital reef that they're trying to get going. Yeah. they're trying to get going. Yeah. they're trying to get going. Yeah. Anyway, Anyway, Anyway, definitely dead by the end of this rob. definitely dead by the end of this rob. definitely dead by the end of this rob. Yeah, the space the space going to is Yeah, the space the space going to is Yeah, the space the space going to is not going to be international. was going not going to be international. was going not going to be international. was going to be American, right? Cuz cuz Moscow is to be American, right? Cuz cuz Moscow is to be American, right? Cuz cuz Moscow is taking care of that. There you go. taking care of that. There you go. taking care of that. There you go. That's true. There you go. Really? You That's true. There you go. Really? You That's true. There you go. Really? You had to go there. You had to go there. had to go there. You had to go there. had to go there. You had to go there. Yes. Yeah. You had to go there. Um Yes. Yeah. You had to go there. Um Yes. Yeah. You had to go there. Um that's my way of not being too angry and that's my way of not being too angry and that's my way of not being too angry and aggravated. It's like just making stupid aggravated. It's like just making stupid aggravated. It's like just making stupid jokes like that. Right. That was that jokes like that. Right. That was that jokes like that. Right. That was that was the same thing that I just said with was the same thing that I just said with was the same thing that I just said with the trickle down economics. Yeah. Got the trickle down economics. Yeah. Got the trickle down economics. Yeah. Got both of you guys. Yes. Remember, it's both of you guys. Yes. Remember, it's both of you guys. Yes. Remember, it's the laugh. It's the LER curve and it's the laugh. It's the LER curve and it's the laugh. It's the LER curve and it's supply side economics. Okay, get it supply side economics. Okay, get it supply side economics. Okay, get it straight. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, my bad. straight. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, my bad. straight. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, my bad. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I agree. I put it this way. If this I agree. I put it this way. If this I agree. I put it this way. If this thing continues, CES next year is going thing continues, CES next year is going thing continues, CES next year is going to be a very interesting place. to be a very interesting place. to be a very interesting place. Oh my god. Consumer products, everything Oh my god. Consumer products, everything Oh my god. Consumer products, everything that's going on.

that's going on. that's going on. I mean, LG had a banner month last I mean, LG had a banner month last I mean, LG had a banner month last month. I mean, LG, Samsung, Yeah. Sony, month. I mean, LG, Samsung, Yeah. Sony, month. I mean, LG, Samsung, Yeah. Sony, Best Buy numbers were freaking through Best Buy numbers were freaking through Best Buy numbers were freaking through the roof last month. And you wonder why. the roof last month. And you wonder why. the roof last month. And you wonder why. I mean, I'm I'm a victim. My wife bought I mean, I'm I'm a victim. My wife bought I mean, I'm I'm a victim. My wife bought washer, dryer, dishwasher, refrigerator, washer, dryer, dishwasher, refrigerator, washer, dryer, dishwasher, refrigerator, stove top. Good lord. Last Friday. Wow. stove top. Good lord. Last Friday. Wow. stove top. Good lord. Last Friday. Wow. LG. Yeah, because Yeah, of course. Yeah, LG. Yeah, because Yeah, of course. Yeah, LG. Yeah, because Yeah, of course. Yeah, I was thinking buying a crap ton of uh I was thinking buying a crap ton of uh I was thinking buying a crap ton of uh Apple stuff before everything goes up Apple stuff before everything goes up Apple stuff before everything goes up like 90% or some crazy stuff. Yeah, I like 90% or some crazy stuff. Yeah, I like 90% or some crazy stuff. Yeah, I mean know it's probably a good time to mean know it's probably a good time to mean know it's probably a good time to start thinking about just hoarding start thinking about just hoarding start thinking about just hoarding stockpiling in the bunker. Stockpiling stockpiling in the bunker. Stockpiling stockpiling in the bunker. Stockpiling go that far. But you know, you got to go that far. But you know, you got to go that far. But you know, you got to think about it. I mean, if this if it think about it. I mean, if this if it think about it. I mean, if this if it holds holds holds and your Apple laptop slash appliances and your Apple laptop slash appliances and your Apple laptop slash appliances slash cars, imported cars, Mercedes had slash cars, imported cars, Mercedes had slash cars, imported cars, Mercedes had an unbelievable month last week. Last an unbelievable month last week. Last an unbelievable month last week. Last month, last week, my friend's Mercedes month, last week, my friend's Mercedes month, last week, my friend's Mercedes dealership in outside of Detroit, they dealership in outside of Detroit, they dealership in outside of Detroit, they sold 18 Mercedes in one day. Really? On sold 18 Mercedes in one day. Really? On sold 18 Mercedes in one day. Really? On Saturday. Oh, yeah.

Saturday. Oh, yeah. Saturday. Oh, yeah. Because they're not made here, right? Because they're not made here, right? Because they're not made here, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's a temporary thing Yeah. Yeah. That's a temporary thing Yeah. Yeah. That's a temporary thing though. It's a little temporary bump. though. It's a little temporary bump. though. It's a little temporary bump. Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. In Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. In Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. In other news. In other news. other news. In other news. other news. In other news. Yeah. So, um, yeah, lots of stuff going Yeah. So, um, yeah, lots of stuff going Yeah. So, um, yeah, lots of stuff going on. Lots of stuff going on. And we on. Lots of stuff going on. And we on. Lots of stuff going on. And we didn't even talk about Intel, Leonard. didn't even talk about Intel, Leonard. didn't even talk about Intel, Leonard. You spent all that time at the You spent all that time at the You spent all that time at the you. Let's talk about that for a moment. you. Let's talk about that for a moment. you. Let's talk about that for a moment. I mean, we did kick it off a little bit. I mean, we did kick it off a little bit. I mean, we did kick it off a little bit. We talked about Lee Boutan and his whole We talked about Lee Boutan and his whole We talked about Lee Boutan and his whole comment that the best product wins. comment that the best product wins. comment that the best product wins. Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah. But Rob, what did Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah. But Rob, what did Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah. But Rob, what did you think? What did you think about you think? What did you think about you think? What did you think about this? Is your first vision, right? And this? Is your first vision, right? And this? Is your first vision, right? And it was my first vision. Yes. I thought, it was my first vision. Yes. I thought, it was my first vision. Yes. I thought, well, you know, there's te leaves that well, you know, there's te leaves that well, you know, there's te leaves that you can read. So, the event took place you can read. So, the event took place you can read. So, the event took place at the Virgin Hotel in Vegas off the at the Virgin Hotel in Vegas off the at the Virgin Hotel in Vegas off the strip, formerly Hard Rock Cafe Hotel. strip, formerly Hard Rock Cafe Hotel. strip, formerly Hard Rock Cafe Hotel. Total dump. But they've come in, Virgin Total dump. But they've come in, Virgin Total dump. But they've come in, Virgin came in, put try to put a little came in, put try to put a little came in, put try to put a little lipstick on the pig. So I It was a lipstick on the pig. So I It was a lipstick on the pig. So I It was a smallish event. It was at a kind of smallish event. It was at a kind of smallish event. It was at a kind of third or fourth rate third or fourth rate third or fourth rate hotel. Um they kind of screwed up on the hotel. Um they kind of screwed up on the hotel. Um they kind of screwed up on the food. Um food. Um food. Um you know the I don't know. I'm just I'm you know the I don't know. I'm just I'm you know the I don't know. I'm just I'm just kind of you know it was like the just kind of you know it was like the just kind of you know it was like the kind of event you have it like it is. is kind of event you have it like it is. is kind of event you have it like it is. is the event that you have when you're kind the event that you have when you're kind the event that you have when you're kind of tightening your belt, you know, as a of tightening your belt, you know, as a of tightening your belt, you know, as a company. It's like, well, we really

company. It's like, well, we really company. It's like, well, we really can't afford to do this, but we're going can't afford to do this, but we're going can't afford to do this, but we're going to do it because we need to make sure to do it because we need to make sure to do it because we need to make sure that people think we're still relevant, that people think we're still relevant, that people think we're still relevant, you know. And yes, the band that they you know. And yes, the band that they you know. And yes, the band that they got was the Frey. got was the Frey. got was the Frey. I so this is a band that like, you know, I so this is a band that like, you know, I so this is a band that like, you know, had one album and then we haven't seen had one album and then we haven't seen had one album and then we haven't seen them in 20 years and then they're back. them in 20 years and then they're back. them in 20 years and then they're back. It's kind of mellowish music. Uh Leonard It's kind of mellowish music. Uh Leonard It's kind of mellowish music. Uh Leonard like Yeah. But they're they're good. like Yeah. But they're they're good. like Yeah. But they're they're good. They're like train They're like train They're like train highlight they're like train. No, highlight they're like train. No, highlight they're like train. No, they're not as good as train. The they're not as good as train. The they're not as good as train. The highlight of the Frey playing was that highlight of the Frey playing was that highlight of the Frey playing was that after they finished their set, then after they finished their set, then after they finished their set, then they're like, we're going to do one more they're like, we're going to do one more they're like, we're going to do one more song and they played Simple Minds, you song and they played Simple Minds, you song and they played Simple Minds, you know, don't you forget about me. And know, don't you forget about me. And know, don't you forget about me. And that was the highlight of the whole that was the highlight of the whole that was the highlight of the whole event cuz they sounded great. And so I event cuz they sounded great. And so I event cuz they sounded great. And so I thought I was in the 80s and it Leonard thought I was in the 80s and it Leonard thought I was in the 80s and it Leonard looked at me, he's like breakfast club, looked at me, he's like breakfast club, looked at me, he's like breakfast club, you know, and so that was probably the you know, and so that was probably the you know, and so that was probably the highlight for me. Lip Bhutan, he did highlight for me. Lip Bhutan, he did highlight for me. Lip Bhutan, he did his, you know, it was kind of his coming his, you know, it was kind of his coming his, you know, it was kind of his coming out. He did a keynote. Yeah, he's kind out. He did a keynote. Yeah, he's kind out. He did a keynote. Yeah, he's kind of a softspoken, understated guy. Uh, of a softspoken, understated guy. Uh, of a softspoken, understated guy. Uh, humility is the word I would espouse humility is the word I would espouse humility is the word I would espouse with him. He talked about his upbringing with him. He talked about his upbringing with him. He talked about his upbringing in Singapore. He did play power forward in Singapore. He did play power forward in Singapore. He did play power forward in basketball, so I know Mr. Brummer in basketball, so I know Mr. Brummer in basketball, so I know Mr. Brummer will appreciate that. Yeah. And so he will appreciate that. Yeah. And so he will appreciate that. Yeah. And so he did a lot of basketball. How old is he?

did a lot of basketball. How old is he? did a lot of basketball. How old is he? Can I recruit him? You should be able to Can I recruit him? You should be able to Can I recruit him? You should be able to recruit him. Yeah, actually. Yes, he recruit him. Yeah, actually. Yes, he recruit him. Yeah, actually. Yes, he would be on your team. Is he 69? No. No. would be on your team. Is he 69? No. No. would be on your team. Is he 69? No. No. Who's younger than that? I think he's Who's younger than that? I think he's Who's younger than that? I think he's like 67, 65, 67. Well, then yeah, I'm like 67, 65, 67. Well, then yeah, I'm like 67, 65, 67. Well, then yeah, I'm the 6570. There you go. There you go. I the 6570. There you go. There you go. I the 6570. There you go. There you go. I think he could play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. think he could play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. think he could play. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, so he kind of talked But, you know, so he kind of talked But, you know, so he kind of talked about family, you know, which is kind of about family, you know, which is kind of about family, you know, which is kind of like when you're watching the Fast and like when you're watching the Fast and like when you're watching the Fast and the Furious movies and he's talking the Furious movies and he's talking the Furious movies and he's talking about family and so there was a lot of about family and so there was a lot of about family and so there was a lot of that and we're going to we're going to that and we're going to we're going to that and we're going to we're going to be customer focused, you know, kind of be customer focused, you know, kind of be customer focused, you know, kind of that generality, glittering that generality, glittering that generality, glittering generalities, right? So, what do what is generalities, right? So, what do what is generalities, right? So, what do what is your thought around them moving forward? your thought around them moving forward? your thought around them moving forward? I mean, are you feel confident in his I mean, are you feel confident in his I mean, are you feel confident in his direction as to where the company goes? direction as to where the company goes? direction as to where the company goes? It feels like it's the same direction It feels like it's the same direction It feels like it's the same direction that Pat had them on. They're sticking that Pat had them on. They're sticking that Pat had them on. They're sticking with the FA the foundry. They're 18A is with the FA the foundry. They're 18A is with the FA the foundry. They're 18A is on track for 2 nanometer and so on track for 2 nanometer and so on track for 2 nanometer and so obviously their only customer really is obviously their only customer really is obviously their only customer really is themselves initially, but that is that's themselves initially, but that is that's themselves initially, but that is that's probably what they expected anyway. Um, probably what they expected anyway. Um, probably what they expected anyway. Um, and so that that seems like it's on and so that that seems like it's on and so that that seems like it's on track and we should start seeing stuff track and we should start seeing stuff track and we should start seeing stuff coming out the door at the end of this coming out the door at the end of this coming out the door at the end of this year.

year. year. Uh, Leonard, what's the deal? like Uh, Leonard, what's the deal? like Uh, Leonard, what's the deal? like Panther Lake and some of the you know Panther Lake and some of the you know Panther Lake and some of the you know they feel like energy efficiency wise they feel like energy efficiency wise they feel like energy efficiency wise they're now on par with ARM. Is that they're now on par with ARM. Is that they're now on par with ARM. Is that does that sound what they sound like? does that sound what they sound like? does that sound what they sound like? Yeah. I mean you know in terms of road Yeah. I mean you know in terms of road Yeah. I mean you know in terms of road map map map um let's put it this way uh um let's put it this way uh um let's put it this way uh the five nodes in four the five nodes in four the five nodes in four years ended up being sort of uh not a years ended up being sort of uh not a years ended up being sort of uh not a really too aggressive basically kind of really too aggressive basically kind of really too aggressive basically kind of like the whole fab build out right so like the whole fab build out right so like the whole fab build out right so um 18A they consolidated on 18NA they um 18A they consolidated on 18NA they um 18A they consolidated on 18NA they got they and that looks like it's going got they and that looks like it's going got they and that looks like it's going well the first product, the Intel well the first product, the Intel well the first product, the Intel product coming off of 18A, which is, you product coming off of 18A, which is, you product coming off of 18A, which is, you know, that's the foundry process node, know, that's the foundry process node, know, that's the foundry process node, right? That's equivalent to nanometer right? That's equivalent to nanometer right? That's equivalent to nanometer like what um Rob mentioned. Um that like what um Rob mentioned. Um that like what um Rob mentioned. Um that Panther Lake is going to be that Panther Lake is going to be that Panther Lake is going to be that product, the Intel product that's going product, the Intel product that's going product, the Intel product that's going to ramp that whole thing, right? And to ramp that whole thing, right? And to ramp that whole thing, right? And once Intel can prove that they can once Intel can prove that they can once Intel can prove that they can actually reliably deliver on 18A actually reliably deliver on 18A actually reliably deliver on 18A products off the 18A process, then products off the 18A process, then products off the 18A process, then probably you're going to see some probably you're going to see some probably you're going to see some external external external um you know uh companies or customers um you know uh companies or customers um you know uh companies or customers come in and start to engage. And I you come in and start to engage. And I you come in and start to engage. And I you know there are companies that are know there are companies that are know there are companies that are kicking the tires on it right now and kicking the tires on it right now and kicking the tires on it right now and keeping an eye out on it. Um, but I I keeping an eye out on it. Um, but I I keeping an eye out on it. Um, but I I think they've lost so much um trust,

think they've lost so much um trust, think they've lost so much um trust, which is one of the reasons why they which is one of the reasons why they which is one of the reasons why they were they were they seem to constantly were they were they seem to constantly were they were they seem to constantly be apologizing for stuff throughout the be apologizing for stuff throughout the be apologizing for stuff throughout the course of the the conference that they course of the the conference that they course of the the conference that they need to uh prove themselves again need to uh prove themselves again need to uh prove themselves again probably over two generations. So 14A is probably over two generations. So 14A is probably over two generations. So 14A is going to be, you know, um coming in the going to be, you know, um coming in the going to be, you know, um coming in the following year and then you'll start to following year and then you'll start to following year and then you'll start to see uh things start to ramp up and see uh things start to ramp up and see uh things start to ramp up and that's when they're going to uh you that's when they're going to uh you that's when they're going to uh you hopefully change. Hopefully they hopefully change. Hopefully they hopefully change. Hopefully they establish confidence with 18A and then establish confidence with 18A and then establish confidence with 18A and then with 14A. That's where things get really with 14A. That's where things get really with 14A. That's where things get really interesting cuz that's the the first interesting cuz that's the the first interesting cuz that's the the first node where they use um that first node where they use um that first node where they use um that first process technology that leverages what's process technology that leverages what's process technology that leverages what's called high NA EUV, right? That's the called high NA EUV, right? That's the called high NA EUV, right? That's the next generation of the ASML uh next generation of the ASML uh next generation of the ASML uh technology for lithography. And once technology for lithography. And once technology for lithography. And once that happens, um, that happens, um, that happens, um, TSMC is going to look TSMC is going to look TSMC is going to look like they're instead of ahead like maybe like they're instead of ahead like maybe like they're instead of ahead like maybe right side by side with Intel. So, you right side by side with Intel. So, you right side by side with Intel. So, you know, it's very we've heard a rumor in know, it's very we've heard a rumor in know, it's very we've heard a rumor in the last couple of days. It's still the last couple of days. It's still the last couple of days. It's still unsubstantiated unsubstantiated unsubstantiated rumor that TSMC is going to do a JB with rumor that TSMC is going to do a JB with rumor that TSMC is going to do a JB with Intel around what Leonard's talking Intel around what Leonard's talking Intel around what Leonard's talking about and they're going to take a 20% about and they're going to take a 20% about and they're going to take a 20% stake. This is total rumor right now. Uh stake. This is total rumor right now. Uh stake. This is total rumor right now. Uh look on the interwebs, you'll forget. I look on the interwebs, you'll forget. I look on the interwebs, you'll forget. I know. Back to Leonard. Back to the know. Back to Leonard. Back to the know. Back to Leonard. Back to the disclaimer. Get going again. It's close

disclaimer. Get going again. It's close disclaimer. Get going again. It's close out with the disclaimer. out with the disclaimer. out with the disclaimer. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. It's a rumor. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. It's a rumor. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. It's a rumor. So, everyone don't even give this thing So, everyone don't even give this thing So, everyone don't even give this thing any credence, but you can you can't make any credence, but you can you can't make any credence, but you can you can't make comments on a rumor, right? It it it comments on a rumor, right? It it it comments on a rumor, right? It it it freaking doesn't make any sense. But freaking doesn't make any sense. But freaking doesn't make any sense. But hey, you know, if this is why they hey, you know, if this is why they hey, you know, if this is why they brought uh you know, Libu Tan into uh brought uh you know, Libu Tan into uh brought uh you know, Libu Tan into uh Intel. Um, okay. The guy's got the guy's Intel. Um, okay. The guy's got the guy's Intel. Um, okay. The guy's got the guy's got good pedigree. Obviously, he knows got good pedigree. Obviously, he knows got good pedigree. Obviously, he knows how to run companies. He's been very how to run companies. He's been very how to run companies. He's been very successful. You know, he you're right, successful. You know, he you're right, successful. You know, he you're right, he was very humble. He basically came he was very humble. He basically came he was very humble. He basically came right out and said that Intel's in a bad right out and said that Intel's in a bad right out and said that Intel's in a bad place and sounds like a turnaround kind place and sounds like a turnaround kind place and sounds like a turnaround kind of job, right? of job, right? of job, right? Yeah. Maybe he's he's, you know, like I Yeah. Maybe he's he's, you know, like I Yeah. Maybe he's he's, you know, like I dub him the humble hammer. He seems a dub him the humble hammer. He seems a dub him the humble hammer. He seems a really nice guy uh as he whacks you up really nice guy uh as he whacks you up really nice guy uh as he whacks you up across the head with a big old, you across the head with a big old, you across the head with a big old, you know, fist in the velvet glove. The know, fist in the velvet glove. The know, fist in the velvet glove. The velvet glove. And so like lots of velvet glove. And so like lots of velvet glove. And so like lots of companies that have to do a turnaround, companies that have to do a turnaround, companies that have to do a turnaround, what do they say? Oh, we're going to go what do they say? Oh, we're going to go what do they say? Oh, we're going to go back to our core, right? we're going to back to our core, right? we're going to back to our core, right? we're going to get back to our core business. He made get back to our core business. He made get back to our core business. He made it clear that they will be it clear that they will be it clear that they will be jettisoning noncore businesses and so jettisoning noncore businesses and so jettisoning noncore businesses and so wait and see on that. You know, I run wait and see on that. You know, I run wait and see on that. You know, I run into some people I knew that work at into some people I knew that work at into some people I knew that work at Intel and you know most of them are they Intel and you know most of them are they Intel and you know most of them are they spend every day looking over their spend every day looking over their spend every day looking over their shoulder cuz you know they whacked shoulder cuz you know they whacked shoulder cuz you know they whacked 15,000 people last year and now with the 15,000 people last year and now with the 15,000 people last year and now with the discussion of getting rid of more discussion of getting rid of more discussion of getting rid of more divisions you know people are like oh divisions you know people are like oh divisions you know people are like oh more people. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah.

more people. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah. more people. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's going to be interesting times So, it's going to be interesting times So, it's going to be interesting times for them, but then, you know, hopefully for them, but then, you know, hopefully for them, but then, you know, hopefully they'll get into a a better spot. I they'll get into a a better spot. I they'll get into a a better spot. I mean, mean, mean, rationalization. Um, yeah. Focus. I rationalization. Um, yeah. Focus. I rationalization. Um, yeah. Focus. I mean, that that's those aren't new mean, that that's those aren't new mean, that that's those aren't new things. Maybe you're right. Bring them things. Maybe you're right. Bring them things. Maybe you're right. Bring them in to make it happen. And, you know, and in to make it happen. And, you know, and in to make it happen. And, you know, and what and what did he say more than once what and what did he say more than once what and what did he say more than once when people are talking about technology when people are talking about technology when people are talking about technology this, technology that, he kept trying to this, technology that, he kept trying to this, technology that, he kept trying to pull people back. He goes, I got to get pull people back. He goes, I got to get pull people back. He goes, I got to get our balance sheet in order. Yeah. And our balance sheet in order. Yeah. And our balance sheet in order. Yeah. And that's actually job one for him is they that's actually job one for him is they that's actually job one for him is they need to fix their balance sheet because need to fix their balance sheet because need to fix their balance sheet because they're, you know, they're struggling. they're, you know, they're struggling. they're, you know, they're struggling. No doubt about it. So the financial No doubt about it. So the financial No doubt about it. So the financial because again, net new sales will show because again, net new sales will show because again, net new sales will show that they're on the right direction. that they're on the right direction. that they're on the right direction. Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, you know what? the Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, you know what? the Yeah. Yeah. Hey man, you know what? the the product groups maybe DCIA has work the product groups maybe DCIA has work the product groups maybe DCIA has work to do but I also think they to do but I also think they to do but I also think they uh probably are measured on a on a let's uh probably are measured on a on a let's uh probably are measured on a on a let's say say say unfair you know unfair you know unfair you know um you they're measured unfairly in ter um you they're measured unfairly in ter um you they're measured unfairly in ter in terms of whether they're successful in terms of whether they're successful in terms of whether they're successful or not. It's like benchmarked against or not. It's like benchmarked against or not. It's like benchmarked against Nvidia. But um man, their client group Nvidia. But um man, their client group Nvidia. But um man, their client group has done very well under extraordinary has done very well under extraordinary has done very well under extraordinary fire because Qualcomm's X series faking fire because Qualcomm's X series faking fire because Qualcomm's X series faking had a huge impact. It it woke everybody had a huge impact. It it woke everybody had a huge impact. It it woke everybody up, right? Yep. It woke everybody up in up, right? Yep. It woke everybody up in up, right? Yep. It woke everybody up in the industry. So yeah. Um and you know, the industry. So yeah. Um and you know, the industry. So yeah. Um and you know, I know that they were everybody was I know that they were everybody was I know that they were everybody was trying to play the X series down. Um but

trying to play the X series down. Um but trying to play the X series down. Um but excelite man it's a it's a you know AIPC excelite man it's a it's a you know AIPC excelite man it's a it's a you know AIPC world it is still the benchmark so y in world it is still the benchmark so y in world it is still the benchmark so y in a lot of it's a good point you know they a lot of it's a good point you know they a lot of it's a good point you know they launched Zeon 6 and they've got gout and launched Zeon 6 and they've got gout and launched Zeon 6 and they've got gout and they've launched Gaudi 3 we talked to a they've launched Gaudi 3 we talked to a they've launched Gaudi 3 we talked to a lot of different folks that are doing lot of different folks that are doing lot of different folks that are doing stuff with Gouty 3 you know as a stuff with Gouty 3 you know as a stuff with Gouty 3 you know as a competitor nerd to what you know competitor nerd to what you know competitor nerd to what you know initially we were thinking is it a initially we were thinking is it a initially we were thinking is it a competitor to the H100 but may some competitor to the H100 but may some competitor to the H100 but may some people were saying oh no it's maybe people were saying oh no it's maybe people were saying oh no it's maybe competitive H200 I don't know yeah you competitive H200 I don't know yeah you competitive H200 I don't know yeah you know a basically hopper um but you know know a basically hopper um but you know know a basically hopper um but you know here's the bottom line that everyone here's the bottom line that everyone here's the bottom line that everyone should know that um massive model should know that um massive model should know that um massive model building is different from inference building is different from inference building is different from inference your hardware architecture your system your hardware architecture your system your hardware architecture your system architecture looks different it's not architecture looks different it's not architecture looks different it's not something that's apparent to a lot of something that's apparent to a lot of something that's apparent to a lot of folks at the moment but that's what I folks at the moment but that's what I folks at the moment but that's what I got out of GTC plus uh Intel and so my got out of GTC plus uh Intel and so my got out of GTC plus uh Intel and so my short message to everyone is The CPU is short message to everyone is The CPU is short message to everyone is The CPU is not dead. Not by a long shot. And that's not dead. Not by a long shot. And that's not dead. Not by a long shot. And that's right. This whole idea that accelerated right. This whole idea that accelerated right. This whole idea that accelerated computing or GPU oriented computing is computing or GPU oriented computing is computing or GPU oriented computing is gonna take over the world. No. Um I gonna take over the world. No. Um I gonna take over the world. No. Um I would like anyone who says that to go would like anyone who says that to go would like anyone who says that to go and talk to an IoT person.

and talk to an IoT person. and talk to an IoT person. Yeah. This thing called the brown field. Yeah. This thing called the brown field. Yeah. This thing called the brown field. Yes. Yeah. And then you will stop that Yes. Yeah. And then you will stop that Yes. Yeah. And then you will stop that quickness to be quickness to be quickness to be You wanted fastation, I give you You wanted fastation, I give you You wanted fastation, I give you RS232 serial ports. Good luck with that, RS232 serial ports. Good luck with that, RS232 serial ports. Good luck with that, folks. Yeah. Not not nothing's folks. Yeah. Not not nothing's folks. Yeah. Not not nothing's happening. We're still living in the happening. We're still living in the happening. We're still living in the past. You know, might as well plug in past. You know, might as well plug in past. You know, might as well plug in your old mouse into the serial port. your old mouse into the serial port. your old mouse into the serial port. Yep. Um, wow. You know, PS2 mouse. Yep. Um, wow. You know, PS2 mouse. Yep. Um, wow. You know, PS2 mouse. That's right. Well, PS2 mouse, that was That's right. Well, PS2 mouse, that was That's right. Well, PS2 mouse, that was a big advance, actually. That was that a big advance, actually. That was that a big advance, actually. That was that was serious stuff there. was serious stuff there. was serious stuff there. [Music] [Music] [Music] Yeah. You know, they kind of talked Yeah. You know, they kind of talked Yeah. You know, they kind of talked about you could use you could use Zeon about you could use you could use Zeon about you could use you could use Zeon for what for doing AI large language for what for doing AI large language for what for doing AI large language models what under 20 billion parameters. models what under 20 billion parameters. models what under 20 billion parameters. They felt like that was the sweet spot They felt like that was the sweet spot They felt like that was the sweet spot for them without what is it the is it for them without what is it the is it for them without what is it the is it AMX AMX AMX uh yeah the accelerator uh matrix math uh yeah the accelerator uh matrix math uh yeah the accelerator uh matrix math extension. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and so they extension. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and so they extension. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and so they think under 20 billion parameters you think under 20 billion parameters you think under 20 billion parameters you can just use without an an additional can just use without an an additional can just use without an an additional accelerator. They're jumping on the accelerator. They're jumping on the accelerator. They're jumping on the bandwagon. So, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

bandwagon. So, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. bandwagon. So, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think we're up on time here. So, Okay. I think we're up on time here. So, Okay. I think we're up on time here. So, who wants to take us out? Rob, you want who wants to take us out? Rob, you want who wants to take us out? Rob, you want to take us out? to take us out? to take us out? Yes. I'm rolling but down the highway. Yes. I'm rolling but down the highway. Yes. I'm rolling but down the highway. Anyway, as I travel through beautiful Anyway, as I travel through beautiful Anyway, as I travel through beautiful Oregon, Oregon, Oregon, um I'm about to do my uh um I'm about to do my uh um I'm about to do my uh Alpuccino, my snail don from Oregon. If Alpuccino, my snail don from Oregon. If Alpuccino, my snail don from Oregon. If I was half the man I am, I'd take a I was half the man I am, I'd take a I was half the man I am, I'd take a flamethrower to this place. flamethrower to this place. flamethrower to this place. Anyway, Anyway, Anyway, yeah, said it after you got out of the yeah, said it after you got out of the yeah, said it after you got out of the stage. A bad man. Yeah, they're tracking you A bad man. Yeah, they're tracking you down right now as we speak. Exactly. down right now as we speak. Exactly. down right now as we speak. Exactly. They keep pulling me back. Um, yes, They keep pulling me back. Um, yes, They keep pulling me back. Um, yes, heading southward heading southward heading southward towards lovely California through Oregon towards lovely California through Oregon towards lovely California through Oregon here. Uh, great show. Lot of deep tech here. Uh, great show. Lot of deep tech here. Uh, great show. Lot of deep tech happened here, you know. Managed to talk happened here, you know. Managed to talk happened here, you know. Managed to talk about tariffs without people really about tariffs without people really about tariffs without people really losing it on each other. So, that was losing it on each other. So, that was losing it on each other. So, that was pretty good. I'm impressed. You know, pretty good. I'm impressed. You know, pretty good. I'm impressed. You know, very reasoned, calm, you know. Um, yeah, very reasoned, calm, you know. Um, yeah, very reasoned, calm, you know. Um, yeah, lots of Yeah. God, we dropped we dropped lots of Yeah. God, we dropped we dropped lots of Yeah. God, we dropped we dropped a lot of knowledge in this. This was a lot of knowledge in this. This was a lot of knowledge in this. This was good. This was good. Uh, you know, and good. This was good. Uh, you know, and good. This was good. Uh, you know, and wrap it up again, you know, happy 50th wrap it up again, you know, happy 50th wrap it up again, you know, happy 50th birthday to Microsoft. That's pretty birthday to Microsoft. That's pretty birthday to Microsoft. That's pretty cool. Who who would have thought that cool. Who who would have thought that cool. Who who would have thought that Microsoft would be around for 50 years Microsoft would be around for 50 years Microsoft would be around for 50 years based on a command line operating based on a command line operating based on a command line operating system, but here we are, you know? Turns system, but here we are, you know? Turns system, but here we are, you know? Turns out 16 bits is all you needed to win.

out 16 bits is all you needed to win. out 16 bits is all you needed to win. So, that's all good, right? Much love. So, that's all good, right? Much love. So, that's all good, right? Much love. Much love. Uh, definitely contribute to Much love. Uh, definitely contribute to Much love. Uh, definitely contribute to Elevator Kids. Go to the website Elevator Kids. Go to the website Elevator Kids. Go to the website elevatorids.org. elevatorids.org. elevatorids.org. buy some merch. We got great merch. You buy some merch. We got great merch. You buy some merch. We got great merch. You can get Coffee Talk merch or you can get can get Coffee Talk merch or you can get can get Coffee Talk merch or you can get Elevator Kids merch. You can donate. Elevator Kids merch. You can donate. Elevator Kids merch. You can donate. Again, we're getting laptops and connect Again, we're getting laptops and connect Again, we're getting laptops and connect and internet connectivity to kids so and internet connectivity to kids so and internet connectivity to kids so they can do their homework to they go to they can do their homework to they go to they can do their homework to they go to school remotely. Um we're all about school remotely. Um we're all about school remotely. Um we're all about helping the kids, lifting them up. We're helping the kids, lifting them up. We're helping the kids, lifting them up. We're all about lifting people up, aren't we? all about lifting people up, aren't we? all about lifting people up, aren't we? Yes, we are. We will see you on the Yes, we are. We will see you on the Yes, we are. We will see you on the other side. Sayanara, folks. See you. Heat. you. Heat. [Music]