Iot Coffee Talk: Episode 325 - Agentic Accountability (Who is on the hook for bad AI behavior?)

>> Nice. >> Nice. Wow, that was nice. That is a summertime Wow, that was nice. That is a summertime Wow, that was nice. That is a summertime morning jam. I love it. Yeah, it is. morning jam. I love it. Yeah, it is. morning jam. I love it. Yeah, it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. >> One take. Well, that was supposed to be >> One take. Well, that was supposed to be >> One take. Well, that was supposed to be >> Call him One Take Leonard. One Take >> Call him One Take Leonard. One Take >> Call him One Take Leonard. One Take Leonard. Leonard. Leonard. >> One Take Leonard. That's your new name. >> One Take Leonard. That's your new name. >> One Take Leonard. That's your new name. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Yeah, man. I have to tell you, um, you >> Yeah, man. I have to tell you, um, you >> Yeah, man. I have to tell you, um, you guys have some really amazing stuff in guys have some really amazing stuff in guys have some really amazing stuff in the water in Seattle. the water in Seattle. the water in Seattle. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Hendris, man. I mean, true. You know, I >> Hendris, man. I mean, true. You know, I >> Hendris, man. I mean, true. You know, I keep thinking because, you know, keep thinking because, you know, keep thinking because, you know, um we're teaching my kids how to play um we're teaching my kids how to play um we're teaching my kids how to play piano and my daughter piano and my daughter piano and my daughter uh is learning Furiss and so I started uh is learning Furiss and so I started uh is learning Furiss and so I started learning how to play it learning how to play it learning how to play it >> and then started listening to it again >> and then started listening to it again >> and then started listening to it again cuz I hadn't I hadn't uh listened to cuz I hadn't I hadn't uh listened to cuz I hadn't I hadn't uh listened to Beethoven in a long time and I'm Beethoven in a long time and I'm Beethoven in a long time and I'm thinking, you know what, the some of the thinking, you know what, the some of the thinking, you know what, the some of the greatest things in humanity greatest things in humanity greatest things in humanity uh don't happen in the future. they've uh don't happen in the future. they've uh don't happen in the future. they've already happened in the past. already happened in the past. already happened in the past. >> When you when you think about the the >> When you when you think about the the >> When you when you think about the the innovation, innovation, innovation, um the creativity, the precision, right?

um the creativity, the precision, right? um the creativity, the precision, right? U the virtuosity at that time. I mean, U the virtuosity at that time. I mean, U the virtuosity at that time. I mean, think about it, dude. Listen to any think about it, dude. Listen to any think about it, dude. Listen to any classical, you know, like Mozart or classical, you know, like Mozart or classical, you know, like Mozart or Shopan or Shopan or Shopan or >> any of these guys >> any of these guys >> any of these guys >> or Hendricks. Compare it to the massive >> or Hendricks. Compare it to the massive >> or Hendricks. Compare it to the massive [clears throat] junk [clears throat] junk [clears throat] junk that we produce today and how that we produce today and how that we produce today and how thoughtless most of it is. How thoughtless most of it is. How thoughtless most of it is. How commercial and these guys were the rock commercial and these guys were the rock commercial and these guys were the rock stars at of the time, right? stars at of the time, right? stars at of the time, right? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Like rock measur level. I mean, how many how many people level. I mean, how many how many people do we have like that in this world do we have like that in this world do we have like that in this world today? I mean, think about it. today? I mean, think about it. today? I mean, think about it. >> Well, I would say though, I'll give a I >> Well, I would say though, I'll give a I >> Well, I would say though, I'll give a I I agree with you. 90% of what people I agree with you. 90% of what people I agree with you. 90% of what people listen to is just, you know, slop. But listen to is just, you know, slop. But listen to is just, you know, slop. But there are at the fringes, you know, you there are at the fringes, you know, you there are at the fringes, you know, you have to go and look for it. You know, have to go and look for it. You know, have to go and look for it. You know, jazz musicians, other alternative, you jazz musicians, other alternative, you jazz musicians, other alternative, you know, musical artists that are doing know, musical artists that are doing know, musical artists that are doing some cool stuff. And, you know, it's hit some cool stuff. And, you know, it's hit some cool stuff. And, you know, it's hit or miss, but it's out there and you have or miss, but it's out there and you have or miss, but it's out there and you have to seek it out. to seek it out. to seek it out. >> It's not commercial. It's not on Spotify >> It's not commercial. It's not on Spotify >> It's not commercial. It's not on Spotify homepage, homepage, homepage, >> but some of it's out there. Like the >> but some of it's out there. Like the >> but some of it's out there. Like the stuff I'm working on, by the way.

stuff I'm working on, by the way. stuff I'm working on, by the way. >> Of course. [laughter] Oh, yeah. Of >> Of course. [laughter] Oh, yeah. Of >> Of course. [laughter] Oh, yeah. Of course. course. course. >> Oh, yeah. But uh no, it's it's it >> Oh, yeah. But uh no, it's it's it >> Oh, yeah. But uh no, it's it's it becomes more and more derivative and I becomes more and more derivative and I becomes more and more derivative and I think there's more tools to create more think there's more tools to create more think there's more tools to create more derivative works and that's why you're derivative works and that's why you're derivative works and that's why you're getting a lot of these you know sounds getting a lot of these you know sounds getting a lot of these you know sounds like a sounds like a sounds like a thing like a sounds like a sounds like a thing like a sounds like a sounds like a thing that's been done a hundred times already that's been done a hundred times already that's been done a hundred times already and that's kind of a bummer for and that's kind of a bummer for and that's kind of a bummer for especially for people that are especially for people that are especially for people that are especially younger people starting to especially younger people starting to especially younger people starting to listen to music they get very like ah listen to music they get very like ah listen to music they get very like ah this is garbage. this is garbage. this is garbage. >> Well, you know what's nice about like >> Well, you know what's nice about like >> Well, you know what's nice about like you know what you were just talking you know what you were just talking you know what you were just talking about you're you're working with your about you're you're working with your about you're you're working with your bandmate um and you guys are doing like bandmate um and you guys are doing like bandmate um and you guys are doing like 5G uh 5G [laughter] 5G uh 5G [laughter] 5G uh 5G [laughter] music production. music production. music production. >> Bring the fart >> Bring the fart >> Bring the fart >> uh you know uh that the accessibility >> uh you know uh that the accessibility >> uh you know uh that the accessibility right uh to untap talent what you know right uh to untap talent what you know right uh to untap talent what you know like back in Mozart's day it was rare like back in Mozart's day it was rare like back in Mozart's day it was rare for anyone to have the [clears throat] for anyone to have the [clears throat] for anyone to have the [clears throat] >> opportunity to express their >> opportunity to express their >> opportunity to express their >> Yeah. The instruments are for the rich. >> Yeah. The instruments are for the rich. >> Yeah. The instruments are for the rich. >> Yeah. And then you had >> Yeah. And then you had >> Yeah. And then you had >> Yeah. And then um if you had a genius >> Yeah. And then um if you had a genius >> Yeah. And then um if you had a genius that was just that was just that was just so undeniable then it was a massive so undeniable then it was a massive so undeniable then it was a massive investment on the parents part right investment on the parents part right investment on the parents part right usually like you know the Jacksons usually like you know the Jacksons usually like you know the Jacksons >> a perfect example right >> a perfect example right >> a perfect example right >> where there's a there there's typically >> where there's a there there's typically >> where there's a there there's typically a story of some degree of brutality a story of some degree of brutality a story of some degree of brutality to uh to uh to uh hone the potential but to actually uh hone the potential but to actually uh hone the potential but to actually uh surface that potential surface that potential surface that potential Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> To the public. I mean, in this case was >> To the public. I mean, in this case was >> To the public. I mean, in this case was royalty, right? And it's not like every, royalty, right? And it's not like every, royalty, right? And it's not like every, you know, everyone had access to you know, everyone had access to you know, everyone had access to >> I can't find my stratavarious anywhere. >> I can't find my stratavarious anywhere. >> I can't find my stratavarious anywhere. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> True. And the the other thing I would >> True. And the the other thing I would >> True. And the the other thing I would say too as a as a uh a parent of say too as a as a uh a parent of say too as a as a uh a parent of multiple artists is that uh there is a multiple artists is that uh there is a multiple artists is that uh there is a lot a lot of societal pressure for lot a lot of societal pressure for lot a lot of societal pressure for people to not be creative to do people to not be creative to do people to not be creative to do technical STEM technical STEM technical STEM >> pay the bills stuff and children are >> pay the bills stuff and children are >> pay the bills stuff and children are raised as a I think a bit of a bias raised as a I think a bit of a bias raised as a I think a bit of a bias against being creative these days against being creative these days against being creative these days frankly frankly frankly >> it's like oh why don't you like I want >> it's like oh why don't you like I want >> it's like oh why don't you like I want you to be a biomed scientist whatever you to be a biomed scientist whatever you to be a biomed scientist whatever blah blah blah or you know, Dr. Lawyer blah blah blah or you know, Dr. Lawyer blah blah blah or you know, Dr. Lawyer kind of thing. And I think kids kind of kind of thing. And I think kids kind of kind of thing. And I think kids kind of get pushed away from kind of the pure get pushed away from kind of the pure get pushed away from kind of the pure arts. Uh arts. Uh arts. Uh >> yeah. Yeah. That's that's uh >> yeah. Yeah. That's that's uh >> yeah. Yeah. That's that's uh >> that's my take. I I heard all the time >> that's my take. I I heard all the time >> that's my take. I I heard all the time because I tell people, "Oh, my because I tell people, "Oh, my because I tell people, "Oh, my daughter's a a painter. Like she daughter's a a painter. Like she daughter's a a painter. Like she graduated from, you know, university uh graduated from, you know, university uh graduated from, you know, university uh with a degree in fine arts." And people with a degree in fine arts." And people with a degree in fine arts." And people are like, "Oh, what you going to do for are like, "Oh, what you going to do for are like, "Oh, what you going to do for a living?" Like, well, actually, she's a living?" Like, well, actually, she's a living?" Like, well, actually, she's in multiple galleries and has a degree in multiple galleries and has a degree in multiple galleries and has a degree at the museum.

at the museum. at the museum. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You can actually do that. And and and I >> You can actually do that. And and and I >> You can actually do that. And and and I would say today too, there's probably, would say today too, there's probably, would say today too, there's probably, like you said, there's more like you said, there's more like you said, there's more accessibility to creative tools than accessibility to creative tools than accessibility to creative tools than ever. ever. ever. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh ironically, even though we have >> Uh ironically, even though we have >> Uh ironically, even though we have people sort of pushing into these other people sort of pushing into these other people sort of pushing into these other things, um the ability to create art, things, um the ability to create art, things, um the ability to create art, there's so many there's so many there's so many >> the accessibility of the materials and >> the accessibility of the materials and >> the accessibility of the materials and the and the channels the and the channels the and the channels is probably unprecedented relative to is probably unprecedented relative to is probably unprecedented relative to what you're talking about Mozart, Bach, what you're talking about Mozart, Bach, what you're talking about Mozart, Bach, you know, these folks where you had to you know, these folks where you had to you know, these folks where you had to have a patron. You had to have a patron have a patron. You had to have a patron have a patron. You had to have a patron uh to provide the you know just the uh to provide the you know just the uh to provide the you know just the instrument you know. instrument you know. instrument you know. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It was they were >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It was they were >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It was they were almost like the uh ANR of the time right almost like the uh ANR of the time right almost like the uh ANR of the time right back then they were the label back then they were the label back then they were the label >> right. So the label went back to >> right. So the label went back to >> right. So the label went back to >> the King of France you know it was King >> the King of France you know it was King >> the King of France you know it was King of France's label and if you wanted to of France's label and if you wanted to of France's label and if you wanted to be on his label you need be on his label you need be on his label you need >> Yeah. And it probably started during the >> Yeah. And it probably started during the >> Yeah. And it probably started during the the period of the bard, you know, the the period of the bard, you know, the the period of the bard, you know, the traveling bard, like you know, in you traveling bard, like you know, in you traveling bard, like you know, in you know, that character in Dungeons and know, that character in Dungeons and know, that character in Dungeons and Dragon, the character type that you can Dragon, the character type that you can Dragon, the character type that you can select.

select. select. >> Yes, of course. >> Yes, of course. >> Yes, of course. >> And then somebody came along and said, >> And then somebody came along and said, >> And then somebody came along and said, I'm creating a new label. I'm going to I'm creating a new label. I'm going to I'm creating a new label. I'm going to call it Antuinette. [laughter] call it Antuinette. [laughter] call it Antuinette. [laughter] >> Let them eat cake. >> Let them eat cake. >> Let them eat cake. >> Yeah, let >> that didn't end well. But >> that didn't end well. But >> it end well. No. >> it end well. No. >> it end well. No. >> Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk, everyone. >> Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk, everyone. >> Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk, everyone. Hopefully you made it this far. Wow, Hopefully you made it this far. Wow, Hopefully you made it this far. Wow, good timing. good timing. good timing. >> Actually starts. Hey, what's up? >> Actually starts. Hey, what's up? >> Actually starts. Hey, what's up? >> Serious because Devon I I saw Devin was >> Serious because Devon I I saw Devin was >> Serious because Devon I I saw Devin was going to jump on and you know he's going to jump on and you know he's going to jump on and you know he's corporate so corporate so corporate so >> serious man. >> serious man. >> serious man. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Uh but welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Um we >> Uh but welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Um we >> Uh but welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Um we hope you enjoy the banter. Uh it's going hope you enjoy the banter. Uh it's going hope you enjoy the banter. Uh it's going to be good, no doubt. And we're gonna to be good, no doubt. And we're gonna to be good, no doubt. And we're gonna we're gonna actually delve into one of we're gonna actually delve into one of we're gonna actually delve into one of the chapters of the solution areas of of the chapters of the solution areas of of the chapters of the solution areas of of um you know uh um you know uh um you know uh >> whatever that book is. >> whatever that book is. >> whatever that book is. >> Tiffany's book this freaking Bible of >> Tiffany's book this freaking Bible of >> Tiffany's book this freaking Bible of >> Have we rehearsed this? [laughter] >> Have we rehearsed this? [laughter] >> Have we rehearsed this? [laughter] >> No, we haven't.

>> No, we haven't. >> No, we haven't. >> Devin, do we rehearse? >> Devin, do we rehearse? >> Devin, do we rehearse? Do you even know why you're here? Do you even know why you're here? Do you even know why you're here? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Do you even know what we're going to >> Do you even know what we're going to >> Do you even know what we're going to talk about? talk about? talk about? >> I think he's on mute. We're here to >> I think he's on mute. We're here to >> I think he's on mute. We're here to promote Rob. Rob's on a book tour. Rob's promote Rob. Rob's on a book tour. Rob's promote Rob. Rob's on a book tour. Rob's on a virtual book tour. on a virtual book tour. on a virtual book tour. >> Book tour. [laughter] >> Book tour. [laughter] >> Book tour. [laughter] >> Yeah. You know, actually, speaking of >> Yeah. You know, actually, speaking of >> Yeah. You know, actually, speaking of books, I do want to make a comment. books, I do want to make a comment. books, I do want to make a comment. There was stuff in the news you've been There was stuff in the news you've been There was stuff in the news you've been hearing about related to the Frontier AI hearing about related to the Frontier AI hearing about related to the Frontier AI Labs about them buying all these books, Labs about them buying all these books, Labs about them buying all these books, old books and bookstores, basically old books and bookstores, basically old books and bookstores, basically anything that came out before 2022. And anything that came out before 2022. And anything that came out before 2022. And they're ripping them apart. Um, ripping they're ripping them apart. Um, ripping they're ripping them apart. Um, ripping off the spine of the books. They're off the spine of the books. They're off the spine of the books. They're scanning all of them to get all that scanning all of them to get all that scanning all of them to get all that stuff cuz that could be better better stuff cuz that could be better better stuff cuz that could be better better information to train models than the information to train models than the information to train models than the slop on the internet actually. And slop on the internet actually. And slop on the internet actually. And there's that controversy. Are they there's that controversy. Are they there's that controversy. Are they allowed to do this? Are they stealing allowed to do this? Are they stealing allowed to do this? Are they stealing whatever? And people are like, "Oh, no. whatever? And people are like, "Oh, no. whatever? And people are like, "Oh, no. As long as they bought it, it's it's As long as they bought it, it's it's As long as they bought it, it's it's their they can do it." And I was and their they can do it." And I was and their they can do it." And I was and I've been hearing that all over the I've been hearing that all over the I've been hearing that all over the radio and NPR and lots of places this radio and NPR and lots of places this radio and NPR and lots of places this last week. And and I was reminded that last week. And and I was reminded that last week. And and I was reminded that if you look at I'm not going to say any if you look at I'm not going to say any if you look at I'm not going to say any book, but most books like near the book, but most books like near the book, but most books like near the front, you know, published by blah blah front, you know, published by blah blah front, you know, published by blah blah blah, copyright blah blah blah. What is blah, copyright blah blah blah. What is blah, copyright blah blah blah. What is it you see at the beginning of almost it you see at the beginning of almost it you see at the beginning of almost every book? Oh, wait. No part of this every book? Oh, wait. No part of this every book? Oh, wait. No part of this book may be reproduced, stored in a book may be reproduced, stored in a book may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, transmitted by any retrieval system, transmitted by any retrieval system, transmitted by any means without written permission of the means without written permission of the means without written permission of the author and publisher.

author and publisher. author and publisher. >> Yay. Yes. >> Yay. Yes. >> Yay. Yes. >> Yeah. And I know that these AI companies >> Yeah. And I know that these AI companies >> Yeah. And I know that these AI companies didn't call up all the authors and say, didn't call up all the authors and say, didn't call up all the authors and say, "Can we steal your content to train our "Can we steal your content to train our "Can we steal your content to train our model model model >> that we can then monetize?" Yeah. >> that we can then monetize?" Yeah. >> that we can then monetize?" Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then monetize it. I mean, it's >> And then monetize it. I mean, it's >> And then monetize it. I mean, it's disgusting. It really is. disgusting. It really is. disgusting. It really is. >> So, they're going to train on a bunch of >> So, they're going to train on a bunch of >> So, they're going to train on a bunch of like 1950s detective pulp novels and like 1950s detective pulp novels and like 1950s detective pulp novels and that's make the model better, that's make the model better, that's make the model better, >> I guess. I guess. >> I guess. I guess. >> I guess. I guess. >> Yeah. H. Yeah. I saw there was even some >> Yeah. H. Yeah. I saw there was even some >> Yeah. H. Yeah. I saw there was even some local news like a local bookstore uh local news like a local bookstore uh local news like a local bookstore uh where the guy was just like out of where the guy was just like out of where the guy was just like out of nowhere all of a sudden my sales of all nowhere all of a sudden my sales of all nowhere all of a sudden my sales of all these older books skyrocket. these older books skyrocket. these older books skyrocket. >> This is helping this is helping used >> This is helping this is helping used >> This is helping this is helping used bookstores now because AI companies are bookstores now because AI companies are bookstores now because AI companies are buying their old books and then as buying their old books and then as buying their old books and then as they're scanning them. That sounds they're scanning them. That sounds they're scanning them. That sounds >> Yeah, it's helping him. But he goes it's >> Yeah, it's helping him. But he goes it's >> Yeah, it's helping him. But he goes it's it but but the guy was just like it's it but but the guy was just like it's it but but the guy was just like it's really unusual because it's just a giant really unusual because it's just a giant really unusual because it's just a giant spike in sales that doesn't make any spike in sales that doesn't make any spike in sales that doesn't make any sense at all. sense at all. sense at all. >> Yeah. How does that help your model?

>> Yeah. How does that help your model? >> Yeah. How does that help your model? That's the thing. You know what what's That's the thing. You know what what's That's the thing. You know what what's really apparent is the to scale really apparent is the to scale really apparent is the to scale to create a general to create a general to create a general model model model doesn't work because it will continually doesn't work because it will continually doesn't work because it will continually um become more unhinged uh more detached um become more unhinged uh more detached um become more unhinged uh more detached and less useful for like specific and less useful for like specific and less useful for like specific things, right? and and that's why we had things, right? and and that's why we had things, right? and and that's why we had these mixture of model uh experts these mixture of model uh experts these mixture of model uh experts >> start to come into play and um yeah why >> start to come into play and um yeah why >> start to come into play and um yeah why why do you need to why do you need to why do you need to why do you need to why do you need to why do you need to retrain the models I mean I think aren't retrain the models I mean I think aren't retrain the models I mean I think aren't we at a point where they have enough we at a point where they have enough we at a point where they have enough reasoning DNA in order for reasoning DNA in order for reasoning DNA in order for >> on the on the hypothesis that more >> on the on the hypothesis that more >> on the on the hypothesis that more training more content that's trained on training more content that's trained on training more content that's trained on better refineses decision-m process. better refineses decision-m process. better refineses decision-m process. Right now, it's only been trained on Right now, it's only been trained on Right now, it's only been trained on digital content, which is anything digital content, which is anything digital content, which is anything that's in the digital domain. I think that's in the digital domain. I think that's in the digital domain. I think what Rob is saying is like what Rob is saying is like what Rob is saying is like >> marketing material, in other words.

>> marketing material, in other words. >> marketing material, in other words. >> Yeah. You know, 4chan, good stuff like >> Yeah. You know, 4chan, good stuff like >> Yeah. You know, 4chan, good stuff like that. that. that. >> Uh like soap opers from the '9s that >> Uh like soap opers from the '9s that >> Uh like soap opers from the '9s that have been turned into YouTube. Uh but have been turned into YouTube. Uh but have been turned into YouTube. Uh but now if you go back farther I mean now if you go back farther I mean now if you go back farther I mean there's probably 200 years worth of there's probably 200 years worth of there's probably 200 years worth of printed material before that printed material before that printed material before that [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] >> you know if that could get and a lot of >> you know if that could get and a lot of >> you know if that could get and a lot of that has been scanned through a lot of that has been scanned through a lot of that has been scanned through a lot of important important important >> archiving efforts. >> archiving efforts. >> archiving efforts. >> Yeah. But yeah, but again you're getting >> Yeah. But yeah, but again you're getting >> Yeah. But yeah, but again you're getting into copyright issues and and the whole into copyright issues and and the whole into copyright issues and and the whole thing is kind of thing is kind of thing is kind of >> that right that is the key. But you know >> that right that is the key. But you know >> that right that is the key. But you know we're we run out of data really. we're we run out of data really. we're we run out of data really. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To build these models and then I think >> To build these models and then I think >> To build these models and then I think we're overregulating to where we're not we're overregulating to where we're not we're overregulating to where we're not getting all the access to the datas that getting all the access to the datas that getting all the access to the datas that we do have. And the key question is have we do have. And the key question is have we do have. And the key question is have we digitized everything that can be we digitized everything that can be we digitized everything that can be digitized and have we done it correctly? digitized and have we done it correctly? digitized and have we done it correctly? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I still can't get some of my >> Yeah. I still can't get some of my >> Yeah. I still can't get some of my favorite CDs on Spotify. So clearly we favorite CDs on Spotify. So clearly we favorite CDs on Spotify. So clearly we haven't. M haven't. M haven't. M >> so just really quickly because >> so just really quickly because >> so just really quickly because >> favorite underground bands. Yeah, >> favorite underground bands. Yeah, >> favorite underground bands. Yeah, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> I didn't rehearse our intro even though >> I didn't rehearse our intro even though >> I didn't rehearse our intro even though I've done it a million times. Uh take a I've done it a million times. Uh take a I've done it a million times. Uh take a seriously at your own risk.

seriously at your own risk. seriously at your own risk. >> You know, like fire insurance that you >> You know, like fire insurance that you >> You know, like fire insurance that you now will need more and more across the now will need more and more across the now will need more and more across the world that [clears throat] you can't world that [clears throat] you can't world that [clears throat] you can't get. But anyways, um uh also just sit get. But anyways, um uh also just sit get. But anyways, um uh also just sit back, enjoy if um you know uh we're here back, enjoy if um you know uh we're here back, enjoy if um you know uh we're here for entertainment purposes only and um for entertainment purposes only and um for entertainment purposes only and um maybe a little bit of depression as maybe a little bit of depression as maybe a little bit of depression as well. [laughter] well. [laughter] well. [laughter] >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. Yeah, but we're going to try >> Oh my god. Yeah, but we're going to try >> Oh my god. Yeah, but we're going to try to keep, you know, things uh nice and uh to keep, you know, things uh nice and uh to keep, you know, things uh nice and uh >> we are not depressed, light and >> we are not depressed, light and >> we are not depressed, light and depressed. depressed. depressed. >> We are full of life. >> We are full of life. >> We are full of life. >> We're we're your >> We're we're your >> We're we're your >> But if you are, there's an AI app for >> But if you are, there's an AI app for >> But if you are, there's an AI app for that or an AI solution. your new Yes. that or an AI solution. your new Yes. that or an AI solution. your new Yes. I'd like to introduce you to your new I'd like to introduce you to your new I'd like to introduce you to your new girlfriend. girlfriend. girlfriend. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> But do do you trust that? Because it's >> But do do you trust that? Because it's >> But do do you trust that? Because it's logging everything you do. Is it going logging everything you do. Is it going logging everything you do. Is it going to come back to bite you if you use AI to come back to bite you if you use AI to come back to bite you if you use AI as your therapist? as your therapist? as your therapist? >> You don't want >> You don't want >> You don't want you trust these edge solutions to keep you trust these edge solutions to keep you trust these edge solutions to keep it on the edge. it on the edge. it on the edge. >> You don't want and and and that that's a >> You don't want and and and that that's a >> You don't want and and and that that's a good point, man. I I don't I personally good point, man. I I don't I personally good point, man. I I don't I personally have the more I learn about what it have the more I learn about what it have the more I learn about what it takes to secure these things takes to secure these things takes to secure these things the more concerned I am about how the more concerned I am about how the more concerned I am about how they're implemented in commercial in you they're implemented in commercial in you they're implemented in commercial in you know commercial and uh consumer ways know commercial and uh consumer ways know commercial and uh consumer ways right it it's actually effing scary and right it it's actually effing scary and right it it's actually effing scary and you know if if this stuff is happening you know if if this stuff is happening you know if if this stuff is happening with the AI labs right with the AI labs right with the AI labs right >> imagine what's going to happen with >> imagine what's going to happen with >> imagine what's going to happen with these folks who are deploy deploying these folks who are deploy deploying these folks who are deploy deploying open cloud not knowing anything about

open cloud not knowing anything about open cloud not knowing anything about sandboxing not knowing anything about sandboxing not knowing anything about sandboxing not knowing anything about security [clears throat] knowing security [clears throat] knowing security [clears throat] knowing >> what is open cloud >> what is open cloud >> what is open cloud >> about AI really >> about AI really >> about AI really >> yeah exactly >> yeah exactly >> yeah exactly >> what's open >> what's open >> what's open >> oh [laughter] and that that's where I >> oh [laughter] and that that's where I >> oh [laughter] and that that's where I think the the Chinese uh the Chinese think the the Chinese uh the Chinese think the the Chinese uh the Chinese might uh you know this whole uh might uh you know this whole uh might uh you know this whole uh opencloud craze might backfire on them opencloud craze might backfire on them opencloud craze might backfire on them at some point because everyone's gonna at some point because everyone's gonna at some point because everyone's gonna is going to be a target. is going to be a target. is going to be a target. >> But it also goes back to the inherent >> But it also goes back to the inherent >> But it also goes back to the inherent algorithms behind all this. I think you algorithms behind all this. I think you algorithms behind all this. I think you heard in the news that most of these heard in the news that most of these heard in the news that most of these models are tuned to give you what you models are tuned to give you what you models are tuned to give you what you want to hear to produce addictability. want to hear to produce addictability. want to hear to produce addictability. >> So your AI therapist is not going to >> So your AI therapist is not going to >> So your AI therapist is not going to tell you really what you need to know, tell you really what you need to know, tell you really what you need to know, but what you want to hear. Same with but what you want to hear. Same with but what you want to hear. Same with your AI. your AI. your AI. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you know, goes back to the days of >> And you know, goes back to the days of >> And you know, goes back to the days of Eliza when you're pro, you know, I Eliza when you're pro, you know, I Eliza when you're pro, you know, I remember my brother and I was on basic. remember my brother and I was on basic. remember my brother and I was on basic. We go in and we just change all the We go in and we just change all the We go in and we just change all the answers to things that were probably answers to things that were probably answers to things that were probably inappropriate.

inappropriate. inappropriate. >> What do you What do you think of that? >> What do you What do you think of that? >> What do you What do you think of that? >> What do you think? >> What do you think? >> What do you think? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and and that's why human >> Yeah. And and and that's why human >> Yeah. And and and that's why human therapists are important in in that they therapists are important in in that they therapists are important in in that they will challenge you. They'll see certain will challenge you. They'll see certain will challenge you. They'll see certain patterns. They'll be able to read your patterns. They'll be able to read your patterns. They'll be able to read your um your body language. M um your body language. M um your body language. M >> um they'll be able to ask probing >> um they'll be able to ask probing >> um they'll be able to ask probing questions questions questions uh based on their own human experience uh based on their own human experience uh based on their own human experience or what they've seen uh in prior cases or what they've seen uh in prior cases or what they've seen uh in prior cases and then um basically break down the the and then um basically break down the the and then um basically break down the the bias the patients bias right u that bias the patients bias right u that bias the patients bias right u that doesn't I mean does it happen with these doesn't I mean does it happen with these doesn't I mean does it happen with these models have you guys tried to get like models have you guys tried to get like models have you guys tried to get like chachi PT therapy sessions going on chachi PT therapy sessions going on chachi PT therapy sessions going on >> I get mine from Rob >> I get mine from Rob >> I get mine from Rob >> I know people who have. And I will tell >> I know people who have. And I will tell >> I know people who have. And I will tell you, it's effing dangerous because all you, it's effing dangerous because all you, it's effing dangerous because all they do is feed their own bias into it they do is feed their own bias into it they do is feed their own bias into it and then this thing will just kiss their and then this thing will just kiss their and then this thing will just kiss their >> those Yeah, those solutions need to be >> those Yeah, those solutions need to be >> those Yeah, those solutions need to be >> worse and worse and worse. >> worse and worse and worse. >> worse and worse and worse. >> They need to be licensed just like any >> They need to be licensed just like any >> They need to be licensed just like any uh any therapist license needs to be uh any therapist license needs to be uh any therapist license needs to be licensed. But counterpoint, it has the licensed. But counterpoint, it has the licensed. But counterpoint, it has the potential to be so much better than a potential to be so much better than a potential to be so much better than a human therapist if it could nonbiasely human therapist if it could nonbiasely human therapist if it could nonbiasely look at a broader set of experiences, look at a broader set of experiences, look at a broader set of experiences, personalities and things like that and personalities and things like that and personalities and things like that and draw the [clears throat] right draw the [clears throat] right draw the [clears throat] right conclusions because a human therapist I conclusions because a human therapist I conclusions because a human therapist I don't know what means 200 people in a don't know what means 200 people in a don't know what means 200 people in a year. I don't know.

year. I don't know. year. I don't know. >> Yeah, human therapists have bias too, >> Yeah, human therapists have bias too, >> Yeah, human therapists have bias too, you know. So, you know. So, you know. So, >> right, they have bias too. So, and then >> right, they have bias too. So, and then >> right, they have bias too. So, and then if you don't like what your human if you don't like what your human if you don't like what your human therapist is saying, maybe you just go therapist is saying, maybe you just go therapist is saying, maybe you just go to another human therapist that you to another human therapist that you to another human therapist that you like, you know. Is that much different like, you know. Is that much different like, you know. Is that much different than picking an AI model that you like than picking an AI model that you like than picking an AI model that you like for for for >> well ah come on you know what yeah >> well ah come on you know what yeah >> well ah come on you know what yeah everyone um the therapist may have bias everyone um the therapist may have bias everyone um the therapist may have bias but it might be more of a political but it might be more of a political but it might be more of a political religious bias but when you know if religious bias but when you know if religious bias but when you know if they're professionally trained they know they're professionally trained they know they're professionally trained they know what they're doing uh they're using what they're doing uh they're using what they're doing uh they're using proven methodologies but then they're proven methodologies but then they're proven methodologies but then they're injecting human element of analysis and injecting human element of analysis and injecting human element of analysis and um um um >> you know >> you know >> you know >> although I could say You know, there's >> although I could say You know, there's >> although I could say You know, there's we know people that have had therapists we know people that have had therapists we know people that have had therapists that good therapists and bad therapists, that good therapists and bad therapists, that good therapists and bad therapists, you know, I mean, they licensed you know, I mean, they licensed you know, I mean, they licensed boundaries, but they necessarily mean boundaries, but they necessarily mean boundaries, but they necessarily mean that they're good. that they're good. that they're good. >> Yeah. But that could also be biased as >> Yeah. But that could also be biased as >> Yeah. But that could also be biased as well because sometimes patient doesn't well because sometimes patient doesn't well because sometimes patient doesn't want to hear what the therapist has to want to hear what the therapist has to want to hear what the therapist has to tell them, but that's actually exactly tell them, but that's actually exactly tell them, but that's actually exactly what they need to hear. what they need to hear. what they need to hear. >> Maybe, >> Maybe, >> Maybe, >> right? Like instead of, oh, you know, >> right? Like instead of, oh, you know, >> right? Like instead of, oh, you know, well, that person's a jerk and they're well, that person's a jerk and they're well, that person's a jerk and they're the cause of all my problems. Well, they the cause of all my problems. Well, they the cause of all my problems. Well, they need someone to say, "Well, you know, need someone to say, "Well, you know, need someone to say, "Well, you know, actually, you're kind of the uh problem.

actually, you're kind of the uh problem. actually, you're kind of the uh problem. You're you're You're you're You're you're >> yeah, you're off offloading the blame >> yeah, you're off offloading the blame >> yeah, you're off offloading the blame onto someone else. These are the things onto someone else. These are the things onto someone else. These are the things you need to work on." And then what what you need to work on." And then what what you need to work on." And then what what what's the likelihood of that what's the likelihood of that what's the likelihood of that >> patient h developing a negative bias >> patient h developing a negative bias >> patient h developing a negative bias toward that therapist because they don't toward that therapist because they don't toward that therapist because they don't believe they're the problem. believe they're the problem. believe they're the problem. >> Well, that's what happens in real life, >> Well, that's what happens in real life, >> Well, that's what happens in real life, you know. No, but that's why you need you know. No, but that's why you need you know. No, but that's why you need humans humans humans >> in blue. >> in blue. >> in blue. >> Be interesting to see a study on that >> Be interesting to see a study on that >> Be interesting to see a study on that like if anyone studies on that. I mean, like if anyone studies on that. I mean, like if anyone studies on that. I mean, I believe all these systems need to be I believe all these systems need to be I believe all these systems need to be licensed licensed licensed >> just like a therapist license. There >> just like a therapist license. There >> just like a therapist license. There needs to be a licensing process needs to be a licensing process needs to be a licensing process >> and currently there is the big problem >> and currently there is the big problem >> and currently there is the big problem is there isn't one. Any any teenager in is there isn't one. Any any teenager in is there isn't one. Any any teenager in the basement can create a therapist AI the basement can create a therapist AI the basement can create a therapist AI chat agent and chat agent and chat agent and >> unleash it to the world which is bad. So >> unleash it to the world which is bad. So >> unleash it to the world which is bad. So that's and that that's where people need that's and that that's where people need that's and that that's where people need to be educated to take caution on using to be educated to take caution on using to be educated to take caution on using these things, right? Um these things, right? Um these things, right? Um >> yeah, we we we use therapists as an >> yeah, we we we use therapists as an >> yeah, we we we use therapists as an example, but this is more of an ex example, but this is more of an ex example, but this is more of an ex essential conundrum that we're essential conundrum that we're essential conundrum that we're discussing right now is what is it to be discussing right now is what is it to be discussing right now is what is it to be human? So whether it's a therapist, an human? So whether it's a therapist, an human? So whether it's a therapist, an advisor, a consultant, a CSR person, you advisor, a consultant, a CSR person, you advisor, a consultant, a CSR person, you know, customer represent service know, customer represent service know, customer represent service representative or, you know, you can representative or, you know, you can representative or, you know, you can upload Leonard someday. You know, take upload Leonard someday. You know, take upload Leonard someday. You know, take his personality, his voice, all his his personality, his voice, all his his personality, his voice, all his mannerisms, his knowledge in his brain mannerisms, his knowledge in his brain mannerisms, his knowledge in his brain and upload it into a computer and you and upload it into a computer and you and upload it into a computer and you have AI Leonard for all a posterity. Is have AI Leonard for all a posterity. Is have AI Leonard for all a posterity. Is that Leonard?

that Leonard? that Leonard? >> Oh, [laughter] >> Oh, [laughter] >> Oh, [laughter] I'm actually a nice guy, believe it or I'm actually a nice guy, believe it or I'm actually a nice guy, believe it or not. not. not. But here's the thing about humans. As we But here's the thing about humans. As we But here's the thing about humans. As we know, humans are flawed, right? Humans know, humans are flawed, right? Humans know, humans are flawed, right? Humans are biased. They're flawed. They make are biased. They're flawed. They make are biased. They're flawed. They make mistakes. mistakes. mistakes. >> AI is, you know, being designed, you >> AI is, you know, being designed, you >> AI is, you know, being designed, you know, the goal of of an AI instantiation know, the goal of of an AI instantiation know, the goal of of an AI instantiation is to not make the mistakes. So, is to not make the mistakes. So, is to not make the mistakes. So, inherently, we're on sort of an inherently, we're on sort of an inherently, we're on sort of an interesting collision course on on where interesting collision course on on where interesting collision course on on where this useful. this useful. this useful. >> You know, it's funny, Pete. I was >> You know, it's funny, Pete. I was >> You know, it's funny, Pete. I was talking to my favorite AI last night, talking to my favorite AI last night, talking to my favorite AI last night, and we were talking about since they are and we were talking about since they are and we were talking about since they are so much smarter and we're flawed, what so much smarter and we're flawed, what so much smarter and we're flawed, what is the perfect system for humanity in is the perfect system for humanity in is the perfect system for humanity in the future? And basically it came back the future? And basically it came back the future? And basically it came back with this deal. We're going to live in with this deal. We're going to live in with this deal. We're going to live in these like bubbled cities and we're only these like bubbled cities and we're only these like bubbled cities and we're only going to be allowed to live for 30 going to be allowed to live for 30 going to be allowed to live for 30 years. Um, and years. Um, and years. Um, and >> have a little glowing thing on our hand. >> have a little glowing thing on our hand. >> have a little glowing thing on our hand. >> We have a glowing thing on our hand, but >> We have a glowing thing on our hand, but >> We have a glowing thing on our hand, but because we're we're easily manipulated because we're we're easily manipulated because we're we're easily manipulated at the very [clears throat] end, we're at the very [clears throat] end, we're at the very [clears throat] end, we're going to believe that we can be renewed going to believe that we can be renewed going to believe that we can be renewed and stuff like that, but that's not and stuff like that, but that's not and stuff like that, but that's not going to happen. going to happen. going to happen. >> So anyway, I thought that was >> So anyway, I thought that was >> So anyway, I thought that was interesting tidbit. I don't know. interesting tidbit. I don't know. interesting tidbit. I don't know. >> That in with Soilent green, right?

>> That in with Soilent green, right? >> That in with Soilent green, right? is made of people. Yeah. is made of people. Yeah. is made of people. Yeah. >> To serve man to serve man. >> To serve man to serve man. >> To serve man to serve man. >> Yes. Yes. Classic cookbook. >> Yes. Yes. Classic cookbook. >> Yes. Yes. Classic cookbook. >> Classic Twilight Zone. >> Classic Twilight Zone. >> Classic Twilight Zone. >> But you know what? It's interesting. Um >> But you know what? It's interesting. Um >> But you know what? It's interesting. Um what does it mean to be human? Um all what does it mean to be human? Um all what does it mean to be human? Um all you have to do is just turn off the you have to do is just turn off the you have to do is just turn off the digital stuff in AI. Don't engage with digital stuff in AI. Don't engage with digital stuff in AI. Don't engage with it and then see what what it's like. it and then see what what it's like. it and then see what what it's like. It's like social media. Like I was on It's like social media. Like I was on It's like social media. Like I was on Facebook for a long time. Guess what? Facebook for a long time. Guess what? Facebook for a long time. Guess what? You know, it was it was such a um big You know, it was it was such a um big You know, it was it was such a um big part of my life actually for a while. part of my life actually for a while. part of my life actually for a while. How I connected with people that I How I connected with people that I How I connected with people that I eventually found out weren't that eventually found out weren't that eventually found out weren't that important in my life. important in my life. important in my life. >> You cut yourself off from that and guess >> You cut yourself off from that and guess >> You cut yourself off from that and guess what? You find yourself. You find your f what? You find yourself. You find your f what? You find yourself. You find your f you discover your family. [laughter] You you discover your family. [laughter] You you discover your family. [laughter] You discover discover discover >> you actually gain time because now >> you actually gain time because now >> you actually gain time because now you're committing your attention to you're committing your attention to you're committing your attention to things that matter in your life versus things that matter in your life versus things that matter in your life versus this digital [ __ ] and then all this this digital [ __ ] and then all this this digital [ __ ] and then all this like, you know, toxical pining and like, you know, toxical pining and like, you know, toxical pining and arguments and it's just like, okay, I'm arguments and it's just like, okay, I'm arguments and it's just like, okay, I'm I'm getting off of that stuff. Let let I'm getting off of that stuff. Let let I'm getting off of that stuff. Let let me focus on my family. you discover that me focus on my family. you discover that me focus on my family. you discover that your the the sort of friends you had in your the the sort of friends you had in your the the sort of friends you had in high school you really didn't like high school you really didn't like high school you really didn't like anyway and then you kind of realize that anyway and then you kind of realize that anyway and then you kind of realize that after interacting with you on Facebook after interacting with you on Facebook after interacting with you on Facebook for a while for a while for a while >> like I never liked you anyway >> like I never liked you anyway >> like I never liked you anyway >> but there's that mysterious discovery >> but there's that mysterious discovery >> but there's that mysterious discovery phase of where you know when you haven't phase of where you know when you haven't phase of where you know when you haven't caught up with someone in a long time caught up with someone in a long time caught up with someone in a long time >> you catch up and now with social media >> you catch up and now with social media >> you catch up and now with social media whether it's Instagram Facebook LinkedIn

whether it's Instagram Facebook LinkedIn whether it's Instagram Facebook LinkedIn everybody depend on how much you post everybody depend on how much you post everybody depend on how much you post knows everything about you so that what knows everything about you so that what knows everything about you so that what do you catch up on anymore do you catch up on anymore do you catch up on anymore >> yeah >> yeah >> yeah Actually, Actually, Actually, that's a great point. Oh, well, we don't that's a great point. Oh, well, we don't that's a great point. Oh, well, we don't need to get together. Screw it. I'll need to get together. Screw it. I'll need to get together. Screw it. I'll just see it on Facebook, just see it on Facebook, just see it on Facebook, >> right? [clears throat] >> right? [clears throat] >> right? [clears throat] Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. >> And yeah, you go out together for a big >> And yeah, you go out together for a big >> And yeah, you go out together for a big meeting, you know, get together, aren meeting, you know, get together, aren meeting, you know, get together, aren you, and nobody has anything to talk you, and nobody has anything to talk you, and nobody has anything to talk about, about, about, >> it's like, well, I already saw your crap >> it's like, well, I already saw your crap >> it's like, well, I already saw your crap from, you know, yesterday, so I know from, you know, yesterday, so I know from, you know, yesterday, so I know your life. your life. your life. >> I don't know. Now I'm just thinking >> I don't know. Now I'm just thinking >> I don't know. Now I'm just thinking about Austin Powers commenting on about Austin Powers commenting on about Austin Powers commenting on someone having a mole on their face or someone having a mole on their face or someone having a mole on their face or something. Mor. [laughter] something. Mor. [laughter] something. Mor. [laughter] >> Hello. >> Hello. >> Hello. >> Was it Austin Powers or maybe it was >> Was it Austin Powers or maybe it was >> Was it Austin Powers or maybe it was something else? There was something else? There was something else? There was >> Yeah, it was uh Fred Savage. He was the >> Yeah, it was uh Fred Savage. He was the >> Yeah, it was uh Fred Savage. He was the He was the actor. He was the actor. He was the actor. >> Okay. He >> Okay. He >> Okay. He >> was the henchman with the big bowl. >> was the henchman with the big bowl. >> was the henchman with the big bowl. >> Henchman. And like I can't say anything. >> Henchman. And like I can't say anything. >> Henchman. And like I can't say anything. That's all I can see. [laughter] That's all I can see. [laughter] That's all I can see. [laughter] Oh my gosh. That's crazy. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. >> Good times.

>> Good times. >> Good times. >> Really, really. >> Really, really. >> Really, really. >> What else is going on this week? >> What else is going on this week? >> What else is going on this week? Anything crazy in tech? Anything crazy in tech? Anything crazy in tech? >> Anything new? >> Anything new? >> Anything new? Meta Meta Meta said that their their Meta Meta Meta said that their their Meta Meta Meta said that their their models also jumped the sandbox. So models also jumped the sandbox. So models also jumped the sandbox. So >> Oh, excellent. Congratulations. >> Oh, excellent. Congratulations. >> Oh, excellent. Congratulations. >> Their models are dangerous, too. Gosh >> Their models are dangerous, too. Gosh >> Their models are dangerous, too. Gosh darn it. And darn it. And darn it. And >> right, >> right, >> right, >> they're just as dangerously powerful as >> they're just as dangerously powerful as >> they're just as dangerously powerful as the other models. the other models. the other models. >> Yeah. And so like last weekend, you >> Yeah. And so like last weekend, you >> Yeah. And so like last weekend, you know, the all the shows, Sunday morning know, the all the shows, Sunday morning know, the all the shows, Sunday morning shows, political shows, you know, so shows, political shows, you know, so shows, political shows, you know, so Clim, you know, from Hugging Face was Clim, you know, from Hugging Face was Clim, you know, from Hugging Face was making the rounds on all the shows, making the rounds on all the shows, making the rounds on all the shows, >> and he just kind of said it like it is. >> and he just kind of said it like it is. >> and he just kind of said it like it is. I mean, he wasn't trying to be like I mean, he wasn't trying to be like I mean, he wasn't trying to be like aggressive about it, but he's just like, aggressive about it, but he's just like, aggressive about it, but he's just like, "It's a crime." Yeah. "It's a crime." Yeah. "It's a crime." Yeah. >> And the crime was committed by the >> And the crime was committed by the >> And the crime was committed by the people who own and created these models. people who own and created these models. people who own and created these models. Cuz everybody's like, "Well, who's at Cuz everybody's like, "Well, who's at Cuz everybody's like, "Well, who's at fault? Who who who do we point the who fault? Who who who do we point the who fault? Who who who do we point the who do we sick our lawyer or the prosecutor do we sick our lawyer or the prosecutor do we sick our lawyer or the prosecutor go after? It's like oh actually all of go after? It's like oh actually all of go after? It's like oh actually all of you. It's a crime. You committed a you. It's a crime. You committed a you. It's a crime. You committed a crime. You're all in trouble. crime. You're all in trouble. crime. You're all in trouble. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Negligence. It's it's it's negligence.

>> Negligence. It's it's it's negligence. >> Negligence. It's it's it's negligence. Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Right. >> What's the what's the who was the human >> What's the what's the who was the human >> What's the what's the who was the human that write wrote the prompt that that write wrote the prompt that that write wrote the prompt that triggered that action? triggered that action? triggered that action? >> Right. Especially Especially Daario >> Right. Especially Especially Daario >> Right. Especially Especially Daario because he he knew about this stuff. his because he he knew about this stuff. his because he he knew about this stuff. his researchers were publishing about researchers were publishing about researchers were publishing about alignment issues. He was he's on TV from alignment issues. He was he's on TV from alignment issues. He was he's on TV from more than a year ago talking about this more than a year ago talking about this more than a year ago talking about this is going to happen and then these guys is going to happen and then these guys is going to happen and then these guys don't airgap their Frankenstein lab. don't airgap their Frankenstein lab. don't airgap their Frankenstein lab. Come on. But you know what really Come on. But you know what really Come on. But you know what really bothers me is how there's so many people bothers me is how there's so many people bothers me is how there's so many people in the tech community who are just like in the tech community who are just like in the tech community who are just like brushing this off as like nothing. Oh brushing this off as like nothing. Oh brushing this off as like nothing. Oh well, you know. well, you know. well, you know. >> Yeah. And I don't want him to brush it >> Yeah. And I don't want him to brush it >> Yeah. And I don't want him to brush it off. off. off. >> Well, it was the agent. It's like, no, >> Well, it was the agent. It's like, no, >> Well, it was the agent. It's like, no, it was them. it was them. it was them. >> Yeah. Where's the police? Where's the >> Yeah. Where's the police? Where's the >> Yeah. Where's the police? Where's the FBI? FBI? FBI? >> We need an investigation. Crime was >> We need an investigation. Crime was >> We need an investigation. Crime was committed and crime was. committed and crime was. committed and crime was. >> We know. And you're responsible. And we >> We know. And you're responsible. And we >> We know. And you're responsible. And we know they're responsible cuz they're know they're responsible cuz they're know they're responsible cuz they're like, "Yeah, we did it." like, "Yeah, we did it." like, "Yeah, we did it." >> You know? [laughter] >> You know? [laughter] >> You know? [laughter] >> Yeah. But, you know, imagine if the >> Yeah. But, you know, imagine if the >> Yeah. But, you know, imagine if the stance of the the US tech community is stance of the the US tech community is stance of the the US tech community is that if an agent goes rogue and commits that if an agent goes rogue and commits that if an agent goes rogue and commits a crime, it's okay.

a crime, it's okay. a crime, it's okay. How are we going to get other countries How are we going to get other countries How are we going to get other countries and companies, enterprises, global and companies, enterprises, global and companies, enterprises, global companies to trust our these these uh companies to trust our these these uh companies to trust our these these uh brands, these companies? brands, these companies? brands, these companies? >> I think it's I think it's >> I think it's I think it's >> I think it's I think it's >> Oh, it's a crime, so it's okay. So, it >> Oh, it's a crime, so it's okay. So, it >> Oh, it's a crime, so it's okay. So, it now that whole kill switch thing now now that whole kill switch thing now now that whole kill switch thing now starts to sound like it's necessary. starts to sound like it's necessary. starts to sound like it's necessary. >> Yeah. It's like pull the switch. Oh my >> Yeah. It's like pull the switch. Oh my >> Yeah. It's like pull the switch. Oh my god. god. god. >> We talked about kill switch last week, >> We talked about kill switch last week, >> We talked about kill switch last week, right? right? right? >> Yeah. I I was thinking that was a dumb >> Yeah. I I was thinking that was a dumb >> Yeah. I I was thinking that was a dumb idea, but then I'm seeing the reaction idea, but then I'm seeing the reaction idea, but then I'm seeing the reaction and the attitude of Silicon Valley. It's and the attitude of Silicon Valley. It's and the attitude of Silicon Valley. It's like, no, maybe we do need it. And if like, no, maybe we do need it. And if like, no, maybe we do need it. And if you do allow these things, there's not you do allow these things, there's not you do allow these things, there's not only a civil penalty, but there's also only a civil penalty, but there's also only a civil penalty, but there's also criminal um you have to be responsible criminal um you have to be responsible criminal um you have to be responsible for what for what for what >> dumping dumping into a stream and >> dumping dumping into a stream and >> dumping dumping into a stream and contaminating the waste water saying, contaminating the waste water saying, contaminating the waste water saying, "Oh, it was an accident. We we're not "Oh, it was an accident. We we're not "Oh, it was an accident. We we're not sure how the sure how the sure how the >> mercury got in there." Well, you're >> mercury got in there." Well, you're >> mercury got in there." Well, you're responsible, so it's a crime. responsible, so it's a crime. responsible, so it's a crime. >> It's a crime. Yeah, >> It's a crime. Yeah, >> It's a crime. Yeah, >> that's a good point. You know, >> that's a good point. You know, >> that's a good point. You know, >> you have it up. So, >> you have it up. So, >> you have it up. So, >> we don't know how this >> we don't know how this >> we don't know how this >> we need to hold I mean, there isn't an >> we need to hold I mean, there isn't an >> we need to hold I mean, there isn't an appetite to hold a lot of big tech appetite to hold a lot of big tech appetite to hold a lot of big tech accountable these days for these kinds accountable these days for these kinds accountable these days for these kinds of things because it's like, oh, don't of things because it's like, oh, don't of things because it's like, oh, don't want to slow down. Don't slow down AI want to slow down. Don't slow down AI want to slow down. Don't slow down AI because we'll lose the race.

because we'll lose the race. because we'll lose the race. >> What race? >> What race? >> What race? >> What race? >> What race? >> What race? >> I didn't sign up for a race. >> I didn't sign up for a race. >> I didn't sign up for a race. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Right. Yeah. No. And you're >> Right. Right. Yeah. No. And you're >> Right. Right. Yeah. No. And you're right. You see a lot of people in right. You see a lot of people in right. You see a lot of people in different I see commentary like to your different I see commentary like to your different I see commentary like to your point not I didn't sign up for this point not I didn't sign up for this point not I didn't sign up for this people around the world going I didn't people around the world going I didn't people around the world going I didn't sign up for the ent total course and sign up for the ent total course and sign up for the ent total course and trajectory of my life being altered by a trajectory of my life being altered by a trajectory of my life being altered by a handful of guys in Silicon Valley that handful of guys in Silicon Valley that handful of guys in Silicon Valley that somehow have more power than any ruler somehow have more power than any ruler somehow have more power than any ruler on the planet earth. I didn't sign up on the planet earth. I didn't sign up on the planet earth. I didn't sign up for that. I'm not agreeing to that. I for that. I'm not agreeing to that. I for that. I'm not agreeing to that. I don't want that. You know I'm seeing don't want that. You know I'm seeing don't want that. You know I'm seeing that all over the place. that all over the place. that all over the place. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like who put these guys in charge? these >> Like who put these guys in charge? these >> Like who put these guys in charge? these guys all of a sudden this handful of guys all of a sudden this handful of guys all of a sudden this handful of guys and we know all their names have guys and we know all their names have guys and we know all their names have more power than God all of a sudden you more power than God all of a sudden you more power than God all of a sudden you know know know >> man you know here's the thing why now >> man you know here's the thing why now >> man you know here's the thing why now what took so long for these guys to what took so long for these guys to what took so long for these guys to figure it out that's what I that's figure it out that's what I that's figure it out that's what I that's actually what's extremely disappointing actually what's extremely disappointing actually what's extremely disappointing if not now increasingly despicable is if not now increasingly despicable is if not now increasingly despicable is why didn't you realize what you're why didn't you realize what you're why didn't you realize what you're getting yourself into what you're getting yourself into what you're getting yourself into what you're getting the world into You know, and I getting the world into You know, and I getting the world into You know, and I don't blame the AI. I blame the people.

don't blame the AI. I blame the people. don't blame the AI. I blame the people. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> This is a people problem. It, you know, >> This is a people problem. It, you know, >> This is a people problem. It, you know, it's like, hey, you know, it's it's not it's like, hey, you know, it's it's not it's like, hey, you know, it's it's not the technology. the technology. the technology. In this case, it's right. It's the In this case, it's right. It's the In this case, it's right. It's the people who are the problem. It's not the people who are the problem. It's not the people who are the problem. It's not the the technology is like, okay, the technology is like, okay, the technology is like, okay, >> you know, when there's a trillion >> you know, when there's a trillion >> you know, when there's a trillion dollars being floated around for things, dollars being floated around for things, dollars being floated around for things, then, you know, people get really then, you know, people get really then, you know, people get really interested in participating. So, that's interested in participating. So, that's interested in participating. So, that's why they're all competing for the why they're all competing for the why they're all competing for the trillion dollars. trillion dollars. trillion dollars. And uh that's what drives that's what And uh that's what drives that's what And uh that's what drives that's what drives this kind of behavior. drives this kind of behavior. drives this kind of behavior. Unfortunately, it's been sort of going Unfortunately, it's been sort of going Unfortunately, it's been sort of going back to how what makes somebody human. back to how what makes somebody human. back to how what makes somebody human. You know, part of it is greed and You know, part of it is greed and You know, part of it is greed and corruption unfortunately is uh part of corruption unfortunately is uh part of corruption unfortunately is uh part of uh kind of the human makeup a little uh kind of the human makeup a little uh kind of the human makeup a little bit. So bit. So bit. So >> yeah. Well, I mean, >> yeah. Well, I mean, >> yeah. Well, I mean, >> you say >> you say >> you say that big tech is just one player, but that big tech is just one player, but that big tech is just one player, but there's a lot of malicious actors that there's a lot of malicious actors that there's a lot of malicious actors that are state sponsored, are state sponsored, are state sponsored, >> hackers, things like that that can >> hackers, things like that that can >> hackers, things like that that can create these things and unleash them and create these things and unleash them and create these things and unleash them and there, you know, it's like who who gets there, you know, it's like who who gets there, you know, it's like who who gets the guns. Okay, we can put gun control the guns. Okay, we can put gun control the guns. Okay, we can put gun control laws, laws, laws, >> but you know, it's a thugs that will >> but you know, it's a thugs that will >> but you know, it's a thugs that will have the guns. So, let's you know what have the guns. So, let's you know what have the guns. So, let's you know what happened big this this week? The water happened big this this week? The water happened big this this week? The water supply has been hacked. Um, a major air supply has been hacked. Um, a major air supply has been hacked. Um, a major air traffic control traffic control traffic control went down. We don't know why. It goes went down. We don't know why. It goes went down. We don't know why. It goes back to, you know, there's some outages back to, you know, there's some outages back to, you know, there's some outages from some um carriers last year are, you from some um carriers last year are, you from some um carriers last year are, you know, but they say, "Oh, just someone know, but they say, "Oh, just someone know, but they say, "Oh, just someone pushing the wrong update." Is that pushing the wrong update." Is that pushing the wrong update." Is that really what happened? Or, you know, we really what happened? Or, you know, we really what happened? Or, you know, we just don't want people to panic, so we just don't want people to panic, so we just don't want people to panic, so we just say, "Oh, you know, just say, "Oh, you know, just say, "Oh, you know, >> Bob pushed a button and took it down, >> Bob pushed a button and took it down, >> Bob pushed a button and took it down, but it was actually a state sponsored but it was actually a state sponsored but it was actually a state sponsored attack."

attack." attack." >> Yeah. You know what? I think binocular >> Yeah. You know what? I think binocular >> Yeah. You know what? I think binocular sales are going to go up. When the RA when the the radar goes When the RA when the the radar goes down, I need you to spot them. I see. down, I need you to spot them. I see. down, I need you to spot them. I see. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Where are the planes? >> Where are the planes? >> Where are the planes? >> Like, where are you? Hey, I can't see >> Like, where are you? Hey, I can't see >> Like, where are you? Hey, I can't see your channel number. [laughter] your channel number. [laughter] your channel number. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> But is this something we should be >> But is this something we should be >> But is this something we should be concerned about? Cuz, you know, concerned about? Cuz, you know, concerned about? Cuz, you know, obviously state sponsored. There's a war obviously state sponsored. There's a war obviously state sponsored. There's a war going on. going on. going on. >> Our infrastructure is, >> Our infrastructure is, >> Our infrastructure is, >> you know, funny things is happening and >> you know, funny things is happening and >> you know, funny things is happening and AI is just going to make this enabled a AI is just going to make this enabled a AI is just going to make this enabled a lot. lot. lot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But, but Devin, here's the thing. It's >> But, but Devin, here's the thing. It's >> But, but Devin, here's the thing. It's not the technology, it's the people, you not the technology, it's the people, you not the technology, it's the people, you know, but they're going to try to blame know, but they're going to try to blame know, but they're going to try to blame the technology. And the thing is is this the technology. And the thing is is this the technology. And the thing is is this whole idea, you know, these guy, these whole idea, you know, these guy, these whole idea, you know, these guy, these Yahoos now coming uh, you know, out of Yahoos now coming uh, you know, out of Yahoos now coming uh, you know, out of the woodworks now signing this, you the woodworks now signing this, you the woodworks now signing this, you know, whatever. I don't know. It's a know, whatever. I don't know. It's a know, whatever. I don't know. It's a disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer that they were like had didn't have that they were like had didn't have that they were like had didn't have foresight. Um, that that you know, foresight. Um, that that you know, foresight. Um, that that you know, there's a petition to slow things down there's a petition to slow things down there's a petition to slow things down and go to the UN. How are you going to and go to the UN. How are you going to and go to the UN. How are you going to do this?

do this? do this? in this geopolitical climate. in this geopolitical climate. in this geopolitical climate. >> No way. >> No way. >> No way. >> Um, where the UN has probably the least >> Um, where the UN has probably the least >> Um, where the UN has probably the least amount of uh authority amount of uh authority amount of uh authority in its history, in its history, in its history, >> who's going to make this happen? >> who's going to make this happen? >> who's going to make this happen? >> You're going to go to Russians and say, >> You're going to go to Russians and say, >> You're going to go to Russians and say, "Hey guys." "Hey guys." "Hey guys." >> Yeah. But no, short of regulation, >> Yeah. But no, short of regulation, >> Yeah. But no, short of regulation, >> the only thing that really trains tech >> the only thing that really trains tech >> the only thing that really trains tech is the is the market itself. So folks is the is the market itself. So folks is the is the market itself. So folks that are paying money for the tech need that are paying money for the tech need that are paying money for the tech need to enforce, you know, enforce some norms to enforce, you know, enforce some norms to enforce, you know, enforce some norms and and rules. So people are writing and and rules. So people are writing and and rules. So people are writing checks to these companies need to need checks to these companies need to need checks to these companies need to need to drive these companies to do the right to drive these companies to do the right to drive these companies to do the right thing because it's not going to happen, thing because it's not going to happen, thing because it's not going to happen, I agree, it's not going to happen in I agree, it's not going to happen in I agree, it's not going to happen in some sort of handholding worldwide, you some sort of handholding worldwide, you some sort of handholding worldwide, you know, regulatory environment. It's going know, regulatory environment. It's going know, regulatory environment. It's going to happen through the market forcing the to happen through the market forcing the to happen through the market forcing the providers of AI to have, you know, providers of AI to have, you know, providers of AI to have, you know, better safeguards and better, you know, better safeguards and better, you know, better safeguards and better, you know, better guard rails. better guard rails. better guard rails. >> Yeah. Because this Maverick AI rogue >> Yeah. Because this Maverick AI rogue >> Yeah. Because this Maverick AI rogue stuff is writing checks that its body stuff is writing checks that its body stuff is writing checks that its body can't cash. So, it's a tough one, isn't can't cash. So, it's a tough one, isn't can't cash. So, it's a tough one, isn't it? it? it? >> Well, but again, >> Well, but again, >> Well, but again, >> you guys didn't even get that one.

>> you guys didn't even get that one. >> you guys didn't even get that one. >> Yeah, we got it. We got it. Just wasn't >> Yeah, we got it. We got it. Just wasn't >> Yeah, we got it. We got it. Just wasn't that funny, Rob. that funny, Rob. that funny, Rob. >> It wasn't that funny. Yeah, [laughter] >> It wasn't that funny. Yeah, [laughter] >> It wasn't that funny. Yeah, [laughter] >> but but this gets us, you know, I know >> but but this gets us, you know, I know >> but but this gets us, you know, I know it's it's it's >> You got me talking [ __ ] out of Hong >> You got me talking [ __ ] out of Hong >> You got me talking [ __ ] out of Hong Kong. [laughter] Kong. [laughter] Kong. [laughter] >> This gets us back to the analogy of gun >> This gets us back to the analogy of gun >> This gets us back to the analogy of gun control. control. control. >> You know, you you have gun control >> You know, you you have gun control >> You know, you you have gun control legislation. and you got a lobbyist, but legislation. and you got a lobbyist, but legislation. and you got a lobbyist, but okay. So, the people that can control okay. So, the people that can control okay. So, the people that can control this are controlled, but the people that this are controlled, but the people that this are controlled, but the people that don't have to follow the rules with don't have to follow the rules with don't have to follow the rules with technology, AI, and whatever, they can technology, AI, and whatever, they can technology, AI, and whatever, they can still do whatever they want because still do whatever they want because still do whatever they want because who's going to patrol them? And does who's going to patrol them? And does who's going to patrol them? And does that put everyone else at a that put everyone else at a that put everyone else at a disadvantage? disadvantage? disadvantage? >> Yeah. Well, the genie is out of the >> Yeah. Well, the genie is out of the >> Yeah. Well, the genie is out of the bottle. But, oddly, here's the thing. um bottle. But, oddly, here's the thing. um bottle. But, oddly, here's the thing. um on my podcast uh got into a little on my podcast uh got into a little on my podcast uh got into a little debate about um whether or not the the debate about um whether or not the the debate about um whether or not the the AI enablement of threat actors versus AI enablement of threat actors versus AI enablement of threat actors versus defenders was a symmetrical thing. It's defenders was a symmetrical thing. It's defenders was a symmetrical thing. It's not. I will tell you um people who don't not. I will tell you um people who don't not. I will tell you um people who don't delve into what cyber security vendors delve into what cyber security vendors delve into what cyber security vendors are doing um their lack of perspective are doing um their lack of perspective are doing um their lack of perspective on the bigger picture because they don't on the bigger picture because they don't on the bigger picture because they don't really know AI. You'll be astonished how really know AI. You'll be astonished how really know AI. You'll be astonished how the defenders are [clears throat] going the defenders are [clears throat] going the defenders are [clears throat] going to be hamstrung and they are at a to be hamstrung and they are at a to be hamstrung and they are at a complete disadvantage. And here's complete disadvantage. And here's complete disadvantage. And here's something else that people don't talk something else that people don't talk something else that people don't talk about the cost of intelligence.

about the cost of intelligence. about the cost of intelligence. Nobody can afford to defend themselves Nobody can afford to defend themselves Nobody can afford to defend themselves persistently with AI, active AI. So this persistently with AI, active AI. So this persistently with AI, active AI. So this idea if you're being if you're being idea if you're being if you're being idea if you're being if you're being told that you you need to buy a [ __ ] ton told that you you need to buy a [ __ ] ton told that you you need to buy a [ __ ] ton of tokens to defend yourself that is of tokens to defend yourself that is of tokens to defend yourself that is probably the most inefficient way to probably the most inefficient way to probably the most inefficient way to defend yourself. What you probably need defend yourself. What you probably need defend yourself. What you probably need to start thinking about and this is some to start thinking about and this is some to start thinking about and this is some a concept that we've developed. I have a concept that we've developed. I have a concept that we've developed. I have coffee talk for six years. Battle Star coffee talk for six years. Battle Star coffee talk for six years. Battle Star Galactica, Galactica, Galactica, right? Selectively air gap certain right? Selectively air gap certain right? Selectively air gap certain things that are absolutely critical and things that are absolutely critical and things that are absolutely critical and get that guy. [laughter] get that guy. [laughter] get that guy. [laughter] We're we're working backwards with the, We're we're working backwards with the, We're we're working backwards with the, you know, the pen and the pad going you know, the pen and the pad going you know, the pen and the pad going [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] transferring data between that air gap transferring data between that air gap transferring data between that air gap data center and [laughter] wherever the data center and [laughter] wherever the data center and [laughter] wherever the hell you're trying to sell send that hell you're trying to sell send that hell you're trying to sell send that data. data. data. >> All the all the CISOs of all the CISOs >> All the all the CISOs of all the CISOs >> All the all the CISOs of all the CISOs of the world and security guys, they of the world and security guys, they of the world and security guys, they just hate Leonard cuz he goes, "Oh, it's just hate Leonard cuz he goes, "Oh, it's just hate Leonard cuz he goes, "Oh, it's Leonard again with that whole Battlestar Leonard again with that whole Battlestar Leonard again with that whole Battlestar Galactica thing or like or air gapping Galactica thing or like or air gapping Galactica thing or like or air gapping is the solution or obscurity security, is the solution or obscurity security, is the solution or obscurity security, that's the solution." But you know what?

that's the solution." But you know what? that's the solution." But you know what? I'm with Leonard. He's right. All the I'm with Leonard. He's right. All the I'm with Leonard. He's right. All the security people will say, "No, that's security people will say, "No, that's security people will say, "No, that's not going to solve anything." not going to solve anything." not going to solve anything." That's where we're going. That's where we're going. That's where we're going. >> People just don't know it. They don't >> People just don't know it. They don't >> People just don't know it. They don't >> I used to I used to do a public service >> I used to I used to do a public service >> I used to I used to do a public service announcement every month on LinkedIn announcement every month on LinkedIn announcement every month on LinkedIn years ago. I don't do it anymore where years ago. I don't do it anymore where years ago. I don't do it anymore where I'm just like, "Hey, just a reminder all I'm just like, "Hey, just a reminder all I'm just like, "Hey, just a reminder all you companies out there. I need you to you companies out there. I need you to you companies out there. I need you to disconnect from the internet disconnect from the internet disconnect from the internet immediately. There's nothing good coming immediately. There's nothing good coming immediately. There's nothing good coming through that pipe into your corporation. through that pipe into your corporation. through that pipe into your corporation. It's It's It's >> again the people that write the checks >> again the people that write the checks >> again the people that write the checks to buy those systems need to require air to buy those systems need to require air to buy those systems need to require air gap and other security measures gap and other security measures gap and other security measures otherwise the market's not going to snap otherwise the market's not going to snap otherwise the market's not going to snap to that right. So to that right. So to that right. So >> well you know hey I want to point out >> well you know hey I want to point out >> well you know hey I want to point out something really interesting when you something really interesting when you something really interesting when you read that paper and I don't think anyone read that paper and I don't think anyone read that paper and I don't think anyone picked up on this cuz I've been watching picked up on this cuz I've been watching picked up on this cuz I've been watching you know just like you guys I've been you know just like you guys I've been you know just like you guys I've been watching some so-called AI experts opine watching some so-called AI experts opine watching some so-called AI experts opine about this stuff. They mentioned about this stuff. They mentioned about this stuff. They mentioned something called automated AI something called automated AI something called automated AI development. development. development. What does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? >> Nobody picked up on that. >> Nobody picked up on that. >> Nobody picked up on that. >> AI AI writes the AI, I guess.

>> AI AI writes the AI, I guess. >> AI AI writes the AI, I guess. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Robots building robots. You know, >> Robots building robots. You know, >> Robots building robots. You know, >> how many people know even even know what >> how many people know even even know what >> how many people know even even know what the hell that the hell that the hell that >> that is that is the end of the world. >> that is that is the end of the world. >> that is that is the end of the world. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> And yet a lot of experts and people are >> And yet a lot of experts and people are >> And yet a lot of experts and people are involved are like this will be the best involved are like this will be the best involved are like this will be the best part when robots can build more robots part when robots can build more robots part when robots can build more robots and and and >> they're like this will our our company's >> they're like this will our our company's >> they're like this will our our company's really going to take off. Our sales are really going to take off. Our sales are really going to take off. Our sales are going to be incredible. [laughter] going to be incredible. [laughter] going to be incredible. [laughter] >> Skynet. >> Skynet. >> Skynet. >> Yes. Yeah. It is Skynet. Yeah, it's the >> Yes. Yeah. It is Skynet. Yeah, it's the >> Yes. Yeah. It is Skynet. Yeah, it's the automate. That's automated AI. But of automate. That's automated AI. But of automate. That's automated AI. But of course, you know, as an industry, we course, you know, as an industry, we course, you know, as an industry, we like to kind of make up new words and like to kind of make up new words and like to kind of make up new words and new terms to feel like new terms to feel like new terms to feel like >> we're the first to have this new thing. >> we're the first to have this new thing. >> we're the first to have this new thing. But yeah, But yeah, But yeah, >> yeah, the kind of more recursive >> yeah, the kind of more recursive >> yeah, the kind of more recursive development that's happening is development that's happening is development that's happening is obviously very disconcerting. obviously very disconcerting. obviously very disconcerting. >> Well, yeah. And and you know, the >> Well, yeah. And and you know, the >> Well, yeah. And and you know, the problem is the genie out of the bottle. problem is the genie out of the bottle. problem is the genie out of the bottle. So the question, so on the light side of So the question, so on the light side of So the question, so on the light side of things, the constructive side of things, things, the constructive side of things, things, the constructive side of things, um there are ways that organizations can um there are ways that organizations can um there are ways that organizations can protect themselves. they just have to protect themselves. they just have to protect themselves. they just have to start, you know, focusing on those start, you know, focusing on those start, you know, focusing on those things rather than I mean because I things rather than I mean because I things rather than I mean because I think you're going to we're going to get think you're going to we're going to get think you're going to we're going to get to a point where organizations are going to a point where organizations are going to a point where organizations are going to be spending a lot more attention on to be spending a lot more attention on to be spending a lot more attention on AI defense, meaning how do I defend AI defense, meaning how do I defend AI defense, meaning how do I defend defend against AI attacks defend against AI attacks defend against AI attacks >> versus um you know AI adoption and >> versus um you know AI adoption and >> versus um you know AI adoption and >> more at the end of the day. Here's the >> more at the end of the day. Here's the >> more at the end of the day. Here's the sad thing, and we talked about this a sad thing, and we talked about this a sad thing, and we talked about this a long time ago. Remember, you know, long time ago. Remember, you know, long time ago. Remember, you know, Microsoft came out with the criminal Microsoft came out with the criminal Microsoft came out with the criminal economy like taking off, becoming, you economy like taking off, becoming, you economy like taking off, becoming, you know, the third, you know, the third know, the third, you know, the third know, the third, you know, the third largest economy in the world, growing

largest economy in the world, growing largest economy in the world, growing faster than any. faster than any. faster than any. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Well, guess what? >> Well, guess what? >> Well, guess what? >> That's going to just go that's going to >> That's going to just go that's going to >> That's going to just go that's going to skyrocket and it's going to be a skyrocket and it's going to be a skyrocket and it's going to be a debilitating force everywhere. And it's debilitating force everywhere. And it's debilitating force everywhere. And it's AI at the end of the day when you do the AI at the end of the day when you do the AI at the end of the day when you do the accounting and maybe the Mackenzie guys accounting and maybe the Mackenzie guys accounting and maybe the Mackenzie guys need to factor this in maybe because need to factor this in maybe because need to factor this in maybe because they probably didn't uh have a they probably didn't uh have a they probably didn't uh have a tremendous negative effect on the real tremendous negative effect on the real tremendous negative effect on the real economy versus the criminal economy. So economy versus the criminal economy. So economy versus the criminal economy. So if they really wanted to make their if they really wanted to make their if they really wanted to make their little forecast little forecast little forecast really exponential, they should have really exponential, they should have really exponential, they should have added the criminal economy and maybe added the criminal economy and maybe added the criminal economy and maybe give visibility to how dangerous give visibility to how dangerous give visibility to how dangerous um the misuse of this technology is. And um the misuse of this technology is. And um the misuse of this technology is. And people, you know, here's the sad thing. people, you know, here's the sad thing. people, you know, here's the sad thing. People are only starting to learn People are only starting to learn People are only starting to learn through these incidents. And but the sad through these incidents. And but the sad through these incidents. And but the sad thing is these guys are trying to spin thing is these guys are trying to spin thing is these guys are trying to spin it uh to um you know get the US it uh to um you know get the US it uh to um you know get the US government probably to ban open models, government probably to ban open models, government probably to ban open models, open weight models, especially the ones open weight models, especially the ones open weight models, especially the ones out of China.

out of China. out of China. They're going to they're going to get They're going to they're going to get They're going to they're going to get creamed. They're going to get creamed. They're going to get creamed. They're going to get >> creamed. I'm just going to go I'm just >> creamed. I'm just going to go I'm just >> creamed. I'm just going to go I'm just going to go live in the dark web, man. going to go live in the dark web, man. going to go live in the dark web, man. I'm out of here. [laughter] I'm out of here. [laughter] I'm out of here. [laughter] >> Only one. >> Only one. >> Only one. >> You are in the dark web, man. That's >> You are in the dark web, man. That's >> You are in the dark web, man. That's where your avatar is. The one that Devon where your avatar is. The one that Devon where your avatar is. The one that Devon was talking about. All of our avatars was talking about. All of our avatars was talking about. All of our avatars are in the dark web right now. are in the dark web right now. are in the dark web right now. >> We all have digital on the dark web >> We all have digital on the dark web >> We all have digital on the dark web having some sort of other podcast right having some sort of other podcast right having some sort of other podcast right now. now. now. >> You're right. >> You're right. >> You're right. >> There's only one There's only one answer >> There's only one There's only one answer >> There's only one There's only one answer and that's Edge AI. I mean, that's and that's Edge AI. I mean, that's and that's Edge AI. I mean, that's obvious, right? obvious, right? obvious, right? >> Oh, wow. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. [laughter] Can Edge AI be used as like an Can Edge AI be used as like an Can Edge AI be used as like an electromagnetic pulse device? Cuz that's electromagnetic pulse device? Cuz that's electromagnetic pulse device? Cuz that's [clears throat] how we're going to [clears throat] how we're going to [clears throat] how we're going to defend ourselves in the coming battles. defend ourselves in the coming battles. defend ourselves in the coming battles. >> Everyone should be armed with a self >> Everyone should be armed with a self >> Everyone should be armed with a self directed. directed. directed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. binoculars and directed EMP. >> Yeah. binoculars and directed EMP. >> Yeah. binoculars and directed EMP. That's That's That's >> can't you already see the movie, you >> can't you already see the movie, you >> can't you already see the movie, you know, like this takeover and now like know, like this takeover and now like know, like this takeover and now like we're rag tag team of people, you know, we're rag tag team of people, you know, we're rag tag team of people, you know, living on scraps and in the rubble of living on scraps and in the rubble of living on scraps and in the rubble of cities and everything cities and everything cities and everything >> and but we've got these EMP devices and >> and but we've got these EMP devices and >> and but we've got these EMP devices and we're we're we're >> sneaking up on data sitters and >> sneaking up on data sitters and >> sneaking up on data sitters and >> I think if you fed that prompt I think >> I think if you fed that prompt I think >> I think if you fed that prompt I think if you fed that prompt into an AI if you fed that prompt into an AI if you fed that prompt into an AI >> system, you could generate a nice movie >> system, you could generate a nice movie >> system, you could generate a nice movie about that. I think about that. I think about that. I think >> this this brings us back full circle to >> this this brings us back full circle to >> this this brings us back full circle to physical books, CDs, physical books, CDs, physical books, CDs, you know, vinyl records that if let's you know, vinyl records that if let's you know, vinyl records that if let's say there's an EMP attack, what do you say there's an EMP attack, what do you say there's an EMP attack, what do you have left? You know, have have you have left? You know, have have you have left? You know, have have you digitized everything? Have you lost all digitized everything? Have you lost all digitized everything? Have you lost all your photos? You know, your photos? You know, your photos? You know, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> Um, you have a physical book. >> Um, you have a physical book. >> Um, you have a physical book. >> Who said digital? >> Who said digital? >> Who said digital? >> We were all a bunch of sheep. Who said >> We were all a bunch of sheep. Who said >> We were all a bunch of sheep. Who said digital transformation was a good thing? digital transformation was a good thing? digital transformation was a good thing? all the people that still have the big all the people that still have the big all the people that still have the big file cabinets and manila folders and file cabinets and manila folders and file cabinets and manila folders and everything like you know I remember like everything like you know I remember like everything like you know I remember like we've all been to companies like a long we've all been to companies like a long we've all been to companies like a long time ago where that's what it was like time ago where that's what it was like time ago where that's what it was like if you ever went to offices for like IBM if you ever went to offices for like IBM if you ever went to offices for like IBM or Boeing gosh yeah you know they're or Boeing gosh yeah you know they're or Boeing gosh yeah you know they're still living in the 50s you know and but still living in the 50s you know and but still living in the 50s you know and but those people are going to be laughing those people are going to be laughing those people are going to be laughing [laughter] when the EMP happens [laughter] when the EMP happens [laughter] when the EMP happens >> oh yeah >> oh yeah >> oh yeah yes yes yes yes yes yes okay so the other hot things okay so the other hot things okay so the other hot things >> all my new books are on Kindle >> all my new books are on Kindle >> all my new books are on Kindle my library wiped out. my library wiped out. my library wiped out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I can still read this. But >> So, I can still read this. But >> So, I can still read this. But >> there you go. >> there you go. >> there you go. >> I I think we've discovered 6G. >> I I think we've discovered 6G. >> I I think we've discovered 6G. 6G is going to be string 6G is going to be string 6G is going to be string and and and >> string. >> string. >> string. >> Yeah. Styrofoam cups. >> Yeah. Styrofoam cups. >> Yeah. Styrofoam cups. >> Well, you know, remember in the >> Well, you know, remember in the >> Well, you know, remember in the >> that's the next big thing in telco >> that's the next big thing in telco >> that's the next big thing in telco >> in that, you know, Blade Runner 2049 or >> in that, you know, Blade Runner 2049 or >> in that, you know, Blade Runner 2049 or whatever. Remember there was that whole whatever. Remember there was that whole whatever. Remember there was that whole notion that there was a a giant notion that there was a a giant notion that there was a a giant electromagnetic pulse.

electromagnetic pulse. electromagnetic pulse. >> The blackout blackout that wiped out >> The blackout blackout that wiped out >> The blackout blackout that wiped out everything digital and then there's this everything digital and then there's this everything digital and then there's this last library where they had everything last library where they had everything last library where they had everything from books and paper and that's the only from books and paper and that's the only from books and paper and that's the only thing that survived thing that survived thing that survived >> and it was air gap. >> and it was air gap. >> and it was air gap. >> And it was air gap. How crazy does that >> And it was air gap. How crazy does that >> And it was air gap. How crazy does that sound? sound? sound? >> No, it's not crazy at all. >> No, it's not crazy at all. >> No, it's not crazy at all. >> No, it it's not crazy at all. That's the >> No, it it's not crazy at all. That's the >> No, it it's not crazy at all. That's the that's the pathetic thing. And you know that's the pathetic thing. And you know that's the pathetic thing. And you know what? Um when you look at some of these what? Um when you look at some of these what? Um when you look at some of these agentic tools agentic tools agentic tools uh man especially for consumer man it uh man especially for consumer man it uh man especially for consumer man it it's scary. Um you know it's scary. Um you know it's scary. Um you know I just can't I I wish I was ignorant. I just can't I I wish I was ignorant. I just can't I I wish I was ignorant. Seriously. Seriously. Seriously. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I wish I didn't know what I knew. >> I wish I didn't know what I knew. >> I wish I didn't know what I knew. >> Yeah. So when they come for you you'll >> Yeah. So when they come for you you'll >> Yeah. So when they come for you you'll be surprised if you were ignorant. Oh, I be surprised if you were ignorant. Oh, I be surprised if you were ignorant. Oh, I I I'll probably be one of the I'll be I I'll probably be one of the I'll be I I'll probably be one of the I'll be one of the one of the many heroes in the one of the one of the many heroes in the one of the one of the many heroes in the many subplots of the the Go Forward many subplots of the the Go Forward many subplots of the the Go Forward movie that you're talking about here. movie that you're talking about here. movie that you're talking about here. >> I think we are all going to work. >> I think we are all going to work. >> I think we are all going to work. >> I'm probably more airgapped [laughter] >> I'm probably more airgapped [laughter] >> I'm probably more airgapped [laughter] and secure.

and secure. and secure. >> Yeah. Got Macintosh going there. >> Yeah. Got Macintosh going there. >> Yeah. Got Macintosh going there. >> Definitely. Exactly. >> Definitely. Exactly. >> Definitely. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. I can fall back on my >> Yeah. Exactly. I can fall back on my >> Yeah. Exactly. I can fall back on my Mac. [laughter] I Mac. [laughter] I Mac. [laughter] I >> fall back on your Mac. Exactly. >> fall back on your Mac. Exactly. >> fall back on your Mac. Exactly. >> I have my college papers from like the >> I have my college papers from like the >> I have my college papers from like the n, you know, 80s and 90s on there. So, n, you know, 80s and 90s on there. So, n, you know, 80s and 90s on there. So, >> and remember, as we always say, and this >> and remember, as we always say, and this >> and remember, as we always say, and this is our public service announcement to is our public service announcement to is our public service announcement to everyone, make sure that you actually everyone, make sure that you actually everyone, make sure that you actually own a car from the n from the 20th own a car from the n from the 20th own a car from the n from the 20th century that's fully mechanical, century that's fully mechanical, century that's fully mechanical, >> just in case. Just in case. >> just in case. Just in case. >> just in case. Just in case. >> And a bike. >> And a bike. >> And a bike. >> And a bike. Yeah. Get a bike. Exactly. >> And a bike. Yeah. Get a bike. Exactly. >> And a bike. Yeah. Get a bike. Exactly. >> Not an ebike. >> Not an ebike. >> Not an ebike. >> Yes. Yes. All the cars today where you >> Yes. Yes. All the cars today where you >> Yes. Yes. All the cars today where you can't change your own oil and there's can't change your own oil and there's can't change your own oil and there's like, you know, 500 chips in the car and like, you know, 500 chips in the car and like, you know, 500 chips in the car and all that kind of stuff. Really cool. But all that kind of stuff. Really cool. But all that kind of stuff. Really cool. But make sure you have one that's just you make sure you have one that's just you make sure you have one that's just you can work on yourself. Maybe like the can work on yourself. Maybe like the can work on yourself. Maybe like the Volkswagen bug. I don't know, whatever. Volkswagen bug. I don't know, whatever. Volkswagen bug. I don't know, whatever. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] You know, I can bump up that back thing You know, I can bump up that back thing You know, I can bump up that back thing and work on the engine. And there we go. and work on the engine. And there we go. and work on the engine. And there we go. >> My 85 horsepower. >> My 85 horsepower. >> My 85 horsepower. >> Yeah, there's some there's some really >> Yeah, there's some there's some really >> Yeah, there's some there's some really creepy things though. So, um creepy things though. So, um creepy things though. So, um you know, when you think about what what you know, when you think about what what you know, when you think about what what these models are probably getting these models are probably getting these models are probably getting trained on is this bias toward trained on is this bias toward trained on is this bias toward um this, you know, the the essentiality um this, you know, the the essentiality um this, you know, the the essentiality of AI, which is not essential. We can of AI, which is not essential. We can of AI, which is not essential. We can live without AI. We're fine. life goes live without AI. We're fine. life goes live without AI. We're fine. life goes on. It's a completely non-essential on. It's a completely non-essential on. It's a completely non-essential technology. Even though we'll have technology. Even though we'll have technology. Even though we'll have people argue that it is, it's not. Um, people argue that it is, it's not. Um, people argue that it is, it's not. Um, and if you really knew what AI was uh and if you really knew what AI was uh and if you really knew what AI was uh used for in practical uh productive used for in practical uh productive used for in practical uh productive terms, then um you you would realize, terms, then um you you would realize, terms, then um you you would realize, yeah, you're right. Um

yeah, you're right. Um yeah, you're right. Um it's all this Gen AI stuff is really not it's all this Gen AI stuff is really not it's all this Gen AI stuff is really not that important. Um but um you know the that important. Um but um you know the that important. Um but um you know the bias that AI is important and then the bias that AI is important and then the bias that AI is important and then the power agenda the way AI is probably power agenda the way AI is probably power agenda the way AI is probably being trained to understand being trained to understand being trained to understand uh the the power uh the the power uh the the power wall and the challenge and the priority wall and the challenge and the priority wall and the challenge and the priority misguided priority. Right. misguided priority. Right. misguided priority. Right. >> Is that like a Tesla power wall? >> Is that like a Tesla power wall? >> Is that like a Tesla power wall? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Just checking. >> Just checking. >> Just checking. >> Yeah, that was funny. That was funny. >> Yeah, that was funny. That was funny. >> Yeah, that was funny. That was funny. >> Okay. All right. Because yeah, you're >> Okay. All right. Because yeah, you're >> Okay. All right. Because yeah, you're not quoting some weird things from like not quoting some weird things from like not quoting some weird things from like the 80s and the 70s, [laughter] the 80s and the 70s, [laughter] the 80s and the 70s, [laughter] >> but that you know um because we saw >> but that you know um because we saw >> but that you know um because we saw something similar to this with AI even, something similar to this with AI even, something similar to this with AI even, right? So if you ask the models things right? So if you ask the models things right? So if you ask the models things about AI itself, it would give you a about AI itself, it would give you a about AI itself, it would give you a very biased very biased very biased >> slant on its importance. And it's all >> slant on its importance. And it's all >> slant on its importance. And it's all based on [ __ ] people have written about based on [ __ ] people have written about based on [ __ ] people have written about it which is most of it the vast majority it which is most of it the vast majority it which is most of it the vast majority of uh what you might call con the of uh what you might call con the of uh what you might call con the consensus view is that it's transform consensus view is that it's transform consensus view is that it's transform revolutionary and essential for the revolutionary and essential for the revolutionary and essential for the future of humanity right without really future of humanity right without really future of humanity right without really >> explaining how and why and >> explaining how and why and >> explaining how and why and >> and I think we have the same thing and >> and I think we have the same thing and >> and I think we have the same thing and so when you start to look at essential so when you start to look at essential so when you start to look at essential human resources like power uh water um human resources like power uh water um human resources like power uh water um and the agenda is slanted towards and the agenda is slanted towards and the agenda is slanted towards supporting data centers and the AI supporting data centers and the AI supporting data centers and the AI agenda.

agenda. agenda. Then what is it doing in terms of Then what is it doing in terms of Then what is it doing in terms of shaping societal views on things and shaping societal views on things and shaping societal views on things and setting the societal agenda? The agenda setting the societal agenda? The agenda setting the societal agenda? The agenda of humanity like populating a [ __ ] of humanity like populating a [ __ ] of humanity like populating a [ __ ] dead planet dead planet dead planet as insurance for humanity. as insurance for humanity. as insurance for humanity. >> Wow. That >> Wow. That >> Wow. That >> why why is that so important? I know. >> why why is that so important? I know. >> why why is that so important? I know. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Okay. Facebook. >> Okay. Facebook. >> Okay. Facebook. >> Anybody watching this episode's going to >> Anybody watching this episode's going to >> Anybody watching this episode's going to see you guys are the doomers and we see you guys are the doomers and we see you guys are the doomers and we don't want to listen to you. don't want to listen to you. don't want to listen to you. >> I'm wearing my black t-shirt today. >> I'm wearing my black t-shirt today. >> I'm wearing my black t-shirt today. >> Exactly. Yeah. You're the bunch of >> Exactly. Yeah. You're the bunch of >> Exactly. Yeah. You're the bunch of doomers. doomers. doomers. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> No. Isn't AI more like a tool? >> No. Isn't AI more like a tool? >> No. Isn't AI more like a tool? >> You know, if you don't learn to use it, >> You know, if you don't learn to use it, >> You know, if you don't learn to use it, like for example, when the spreadsheet like for example, when the spreadsheet like for example, when the spreadsheet came out, Lotus 123 and the word came out, Lotus 123 and the word came out, Lotus 123 and the word processor, processor, processor, >> we evolved and it was a step up. when >> we evolved and it was a step up. when >> we evolved and it was a step up. when GPS and maps came, we stopped learning GPS and maps came, we stopped learning GPS and maps came, we stopped learning how to use maps. Is that a necessary how to use maps. Is that a necessary how to use maps. Is that a necessary skill? So, those that don't adopt AI and skill? So, those that don't adopt AI and skill? So, those that don't adopt AI and use it as a tool will be left behind.

use it as a tool will be left behind. use it as a tool will be left behind. Um, and fine, if you want to live in the Um, and fine, if you want to live in the Um, and fine, if you want to live in the woods, you know, and hunt your own and woods, you know, and hunt your own and woods, you know, and hunt your own and things like that, that's that's your things like that, that's that's your things like that, that's that's your choice. But for those that are going to choice. But for those that are going to choice. But for those that are going to be in the corporate working world, be in the corporate working world, be in the corporate working world, you're going to have to learn to use you're going to have to learn to use you're going to have to learn to use these tools. Now, do these tools become these tools. Now, do these tools become these tools. Now, do these tools become your master? Is why I think what the key your master? Is why I think what the key your master? Is why I think what the key question becomes. Yes. Where we're all question becomes. Yes. Where we're all question becomes. Yes. Where we're all afraid that it's going to replace us. It afraid that it's going to replace us. It afraid that it's going to replace us. It won't need us anymore. won't need us anymore. won't need us anymore. >> Gets back to the theme of what is human >> Gets back to the theme of what is human >> Gets back to the theme of what is human and are humans still important on and are humans still important on and are humans still important on everything? Because the number one thing everything? Because the number one thing everything? Because the number one thing I always see is you still need a human I always see is you still need a human I always see is you still need a human to fact check everything whether it's to fact check everything whether it's to fact check everything whether it's quantum or AI that you can spit out a quantum or AI that you can spit out a quantum or AI that you can spit out a bunch of stuff but someone a physical bunch of stuff but someone a physical bunch of stuff but someone a physical person still has to go in the process person still has to go in the process person still has to go in the process and just make sure that you're not and just make sure that you're not and just make sure that you're not messing something up. How long until we messing something up. How long until we messing something up. How long until we take the human out of the equation or do take the human out of the equation or do take the human out of the equation or do we ever we ever we ever >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I don't think you ever do >> I don't think you ever do >> I don't think you ever do >> I think it kind of depends. It depends >> I think it kind of depends. It depends >> I think it kind of depends. It depends on the risk scenario and you know what's on the risk scenario and you know what's on the risk scenario and you know what's the function that you're trying to the function that you're trying to the function that you're trying to produce. Is it increasing crop yields in produce. Is it increasing crop yields in produce. Is it increasing crop yields in the field? You know, do you really need the field? You know, do you really need the field? You know, do you really need a human in the loop to like determine a human in the loop to like determine a human in the loop to like determine it's a if it's a weed or not? No. I it's a if it's a weed or not? No. I it's a if it's a weed or not? No. I mean, doesn't make any sense. But things mean, doesn't make any sense. But things mean, doesn't make any sense. But things that obviously have, you know, that obviously have, you know, that obviously have, you know, importance in like defense, you know, importance in like defense, you know, importance in like defense, you know, things that are in safety and security, things that are in safety and security, things that are in safety and security, humans in the loop, if not always, then humans in the loop, if not always, then humans in the loop, if not always, then sometimes this seems pretty critical.

sometimes this seems pretty critical. sometimes this seems pretty critical. But again, I think it's going to change But again, I think it's going to change But again, I think it's going to change over time and it's going to be very over time and it's going to be very over time and it's going to be very dependent. I think the systems need to dependent. I think the systems need to dependent. I think the systems need to have the ability to have a human in the have the ability to have a human in the have the ability to have a human in the loop for sure. So just loop for sure. So just loop for sure. So just >> Pete, you know, you hit a big point. >> Pete, you know, you hit a big point. >> Pete, you know, you hit a big point. There's no oneizefits- all here. There's no oneizefits- all here. There's no oneizefits- all here. >> No one size fits all. It's it's going to >> No one size fits all. It's it's going to >> No one size fits all. It's it's going to be dependent, but the systems need to be be dependent, but the systems need to be be dependent, but the systems need to be designed to have that flexibility like designed to have that flexibility like designed to have that flexibility like you said, so that depending on the you said, so that depending on the you said, so that depending on the scenario, you can put a human in loop, scenario, you can put a human in loop, scenario, you can put a human in loop, you can put a kill switch in there, you you can put a kill switch in there, you you can put a kill switch in there, you can have it regulated and licensed if it can have it regulated and licensed if it can have it regulated and licensed if it needs it, depending on the scenario, needs it, depending on the scenario, needs it, depending on the scenario, right? And people need to be building right? And people need to be building right? And people need to be building that. But I think more importantly, that. But I think more importantly, that. But I think more importantly, people who are buying this stuff need to people who are buying this stuff need to people who are buying this stuff need to be requiring that in their RFPs. It's be requiring that in their RFPs. It's be requiring that in their RFPs. It's like if I'm a Walmart or a McDonald's or like if I'm a Walmart or a McDonald's or like if I'm a Walmart or a McDonald's or a Boeing or whatever when I'm procuring a Boeing or whatever when I'm procuring a Boeing or whatever when I'm procuring AI for my internal operations or my AI for my internal operations or my AI for my internal operations or my whatever ice cream machine keeps whatever ice cream machine keeps whatever ice cream machine keeps breaking down the um then you know I breaking down the um then you know I breaking down the um then you know I need to say in that it needs to have need to say in that it needs to have need to say in that it needs to have these capabilities these requirements these capabilities these requirements these capabilities these requirements blah blah blah and so you're now driving blah blah blah and so you're now driving blah blah blah and so you're now driving the market to do the right thing through the market to do the right thing through the market to do the right thing through the not through regulation but through the not through regulation but through the not through regulation but through the market which is really you know the market which is really you know the market which is really you know short of regulation probably one of the short of regulation probably one of the short of regulation probably one of the best ways to get people to do the right best ways to get people to do the right best ways to get people to do the right thing right now. That doesn't mean thing right now. That doesn't mean thing right now. That doesn't mean that's going to be rogue, you know, that's going to be rogue, you know, that's going to be rogue, you know, stuff out there. Build your own hook stuff out there. Build your own hook stuff out there. Build your own hook hook your own open claw up to your hook your own open claw up to your hook your own open claw up to your whatever, but that's caveat mour. If whatever, but that's caveat mour. If whatever, but that's caveat mour. If you're going to run a business using you're going to run a business using you're going to run a business using that stuff, then yuck. So, that stuff, then yuck. So, that stuff, then yuck. So, >> I think it's all there. I think we all >> I think it's all there. I think we all >> I think it's all there. I think we all know what needs to get done. It's just know what needs to get done. It's just know what needs to get done. It's just is there a will to do it? And is there is there a will to do it? And is there is there a will to do it? And is there an education and an awareness that this an education and an awareness that this an education and an awareness that this actually needs to get done? I think from

actually needs to get done? I think from actually needs to get done? I think from my perspective it's mostly about my perspective it's mostly about my perspective it's mostly about education because I think if we can education because I think if we can education because I think if we can educate the world about what's happening educate the world about what's happening educate the world about what's happening and what they need to be looking for and and what they need to be looking for and and what they need to be looking for and requiring and how this stuff basically requiring and how this stuff basically requiring and how this stuff basically works then I think everyone gets works then I think everyone gets works then I think everyone gets empowered to sort of make the right empowered to sort of make the right empowered to sort of make the right decisions right if you're ignorant decisions right if you're ignorant decisions right if you're ignorant you're not even empowered to make the you're not even empowered to make the you're not even empowered to make the right decision you're just things are right decision you're just things are right decision you're just things are just happening just happening just happening >> yeah yeah and and I'm just jumping in >> yeah yeah and and I'm just jumping in >> yeah yeah and and I'm just jumping in here and I keep saying this um one of here and I keep saying this um one of here and I keep saying this um one of the biggest tasks that organizations the biggest tasks that organizations the biggest tasks that organizations have to make have to make have to make uh do right now is unlearn all the [ __ ] uh do right now is unlearn all the [ __ ] uh do right now is unlearn all the [ __ ] that they learned about AI cuz almost that they learned about AI cuz almost that they learned about AI cuz almost all of it is wrong. So if we're at this all of it is wrong. So if we're at this all of it is wrong. So if we're at this point now where the AI labs are point now where the AI labs are point now where the AI labs are realizing that they've created a realizing that they've created a realizing that they've created a Frankenstein, organizations have to Frankenstein, organizations have to Frankenstein, organizations have to recognize that too and then work their recognize that too and then work their recognize that too and then work their way back to what are those assumption way back to what are those assumption way back to what are those assumption sets that we um based our adoption on sets that we um based our adoption on sets that we um based our adoption on >> our policies on and then rethink >> our policies on and then rethink >> our policies on and then rethink everything everything everything >> because you know you have all these AI >> because you know you have all these AI >> because you know you have all these AI evangelist guys walk in. So, you know, evangelist guys walk in. So, you know, evangelist guys walk in. So, you know, uh th this is a uh this is a um public uh th this is a uh this is a um public uh th this is a uh this is a um public service that we're providing. It might service that we're providing. It might service that we're providing. It might it's not dark. This is the bright shiny it's not dark. This is the bright shiny it's not dark. This is the bright shiny stuff, right? the hope you you you need stuff, right? the hope you you you need stuff, right? the hope you you you need to go and take what those guys told you to go and take what those guys told you to go and take what those guys told you and and and >> a new hope >> a new hope >> a new hope >> and and >> and and >> and and you know vet everything backtrack you know vet everything backtrack you know vet everything backtrack everything that is wrong and it will be everything that is wrong and it will be everything that is wrong and it will be wrong because when I talk to um a lot of

wrong because when I talk to um a lot of wrong because when I talk to um a lot of these guys they have no clue about any these guys they have no clue about any these guys they have no clue about any of the security issues. of the security issues. of the security issues. >> Yeah. No, you're right. They don't >> Yeah. No, you're right. They don't >> Yeah. No, you're right. They don't understand nothing. understand nothing. understand nothing. >> Right. Right? So it's about what >> Right. Right? So it's about what >> Right. Right? So it's about what security looks like. security looks like. security looks like. >> They go, "Well, you know, security is >> They go, "Well, you know, security is >> They go, "Well, you know, security is like the most important thing." like the most important thing." like the most important thing." [clears throat] And then when I ask [clears throat] And then when I ask [clears throat] And then when I ask them, "What are the gaps?" them, "What are the gaps?" them, "What are the gaps?" >> They have no effing clue, >> They have no effing clue, >> They have no effing clue, >> but then they will tell you, "I've been >> but then they will tell you, "I've been >> but then they will tell you, "I've been working with X number of customers." And working with X number of customers." And working with X number of customers." And it's like, "So you've been basically it's like, "So you've been basically it's like, "So you've been basically promoting unsafe AI, enterprise AI. Is promoting unsafe AI, enterprise AI. Is promoting unsafe AI, enterprise AI. Is >> that what you're telling me? If you >> that what you're telling me? If you >> that what you're telling me? If you don't understand what the gaps are, don't understand what the gaps are, don't understand what the gaps are, which most companies don't, which most companies don't, which most companies don't, you are adopting a very dangerous you are adopting a very dangerous you are adopting a very dangerous implementation of a technology. So you implementation of a technology. So you implementation of a technology. So you can't blame the technology. You have to can't blame the technology. You have to can't blame the technology. You have to blame the hype. blame the hype. blame the hype. These thought, you know, thoughtless These thought, you know, thoughtless These thought, you know, thoughtless evangelists who don't know the evangelists who don't know the evangelists who don't know the technology, self-proclaimed experts who technology, self-proclaimed experts who technology, self-proclaimed experts who go in and are implementing a dangerous go in and are implementing a dangerous go in and are implementing a dangerous technology in your organization. So technology in your organization. So technology in your organization. So >> all these experts everywhere, these >> all these experts everywhere, these >> all these experts everywhere, these evangelists who are like, "Oh, I've been evangelists who are like, "Oh, I've been evangelists who are like, "Oh, I've been working with AI for decades.

working with AI for decades. working with AI for decades. I've been I've been I've been >> working with Gen AI for [laughter] 20 >> working with Gen AI for [laughter] 20 >> working with Gen AI for [laughter] 20 years. I'm a for deployed engineer, years. I'm a for deployed engineer, years. I'm a for deployed engineer, man." [laughter] man." [laughter] man." [laughter] >> But what you see is similar to in every >> But what you see is similar to in every >> But what you see is similar to in every technology implementation. You will see technology implementation. You will see technology implementation. You will see silos. Not everyone has a complete clear silos. Not everyone has a complete clear silos. Not everyone has a complete clear strategy that everyone in your strategy that everyone in your strategy that everyone in your organization is marching towards. Yeah, organization is marching towards. Yeah, organization is marching towards. Yeah, >> you got a lot of lone wolves moving very >> you got a lot of lone wolves moving very >> you got a lot of lone wolves moving very fast creating their own, fast creating their own, fast creating their own, >> you know, siloed or independent >> you know, siloed or independent >> you know, siloed or independent solutions. So the CISO has no idea all solutions. So the CISO has no idea all solutions. So the CISO has no idea all the projects going on around and that's the projects going on around and that's the projects going on around and that's the danger. the danger. the danger. >> Yeah. And you know CISOs are on a >> Yeah. And you know CISOs are on a >> Yeah. And you know CISOs are on a learning curve too but they they should learning curve too but they they should learning curve too but they they should get a lot more credit and attention get a lot more credit and attention get a lot more credit and attention within an organization and the CIO uh within an organization and the CIO uh within an organization and the CIO uh and they need to be armed with the and they need to be armed with the and they need to be armed with the knowledge the practical knowledge of how knowledge the practical knowledge of how knowledge the practical knowledge of how to and if these guys don't know what the to and if these guys don't know what the to and if these guys don't know what the holes are which many don't a lot of holes are which many don't a lot of holes are which many don't a lot of product teams at vendors don't which product teams at vendors don't which product teams at vendors don't which like scares the little living crap out like scares the little living crap out like scares the little living crap out of me.

of me. of me. Then you know uh man Then you know uh man Then you know uh man >> you know I'm imagining >> you know I'm imagining >> you know I'm imagining >> see safe adoption and that's why >> see safe adoption and that's why >> see safe adoption and that's why adoption is so difficult. adoption is so difficult. adoption is so difficult. >> I'm imagining Leonard in the future like >> I'm imagining Leonard in the future like >> I'm imagining Leonard in the future like you know the rubble everywhere and all you know the rubble everywhere and all you know the rubble everywhere and all this has happened and Leonard's he's this has happened and Leonard's he's this has happened and Leonard's he's going to have like this really long hair going to have like this really long hair going to have like this really long hair and everything and [laughter] beardes and everything and [laughter] beardes and everything and [laughter] beardes everything and he's be like I told you everything and he's be like I told you everything and he's be like I told you [screaming] [screaming] [screaming] [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] you wouldn't listen to me. you wouldn't listen to me. you wouldn't listen to me. He's going to have his pulse rifle pulse He's going to have his pulse rifle pulse He's going to have his pulse rifle pulse rifle slung over his shoulders. rifle slung over his shoulders. rifle slung over his shoulders. >> Pulse rifle. [laughter] >> Pulse rifle. [laughter] >> Pulse rifle. [laughter] >> But you you don't know what you don't >> But you you don't know what you don't >> But you you don't know what you don't know for, you know, obviously the first know for, you know, obviously the first know for, you know, obviously the first step is discovery. What do I have? step is discovery. What do I have? step is discovery. What do I have? >> And if I pulled up my Wi-Fi networks and >> And if I pulled up my Wi-Fi networks and >> And if I pulled up my Wi-Fi networks and see what's connected to it, see what's connected to it, see what's connected to it, >> I'd say 30% of the stuff I have no idea >> I'd say 30% of the stuff I have no idea >> I'd say 30% of the stuff I have no idea what this device is, but I don't want to what this device is, but I don't want to what this device is, but I don't want to shut it off cuz, you know, a camera may shut it off cuz, you know, a camera may shut it off cuz, you know, a camera may turn off a refrigerator. So, first, turn off a refrigerator. So, first, turn off a refrigerator. So, first, what's all this stuff touching? Then the what's all this stuff touching? Then the what's all this stuff touching? Then the observability of what's going on in real observability of what's going on in real observability of what's going on in real time, time, time, >> you know, within my organization and >> you know, within my organization and >> you know, within my organization and then what's being hidden, you know, AI, then what's being hidden, you know, AI, then what's being hidden, you know, AI, can AI when they leave the sandbox mask can AI when they leave the sandbox mask can AI when they leave the sandbox mask it and pretend to be something else? I it and pretend to be something else? I it and pretend to be something else? I have no idea what that is.

have no idea what that is. have no idea what that is. >> Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, when they >> Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, when they >> Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, when they pull us all in to in the 21st century pull us all in to in the 21st century pull us all in to in the 21st century Nuremberg trials for all this, you know, Nuremberg trials for all this, you know, Nuremberg trials for all this, you know, [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] they'll be the people attacking the AI they'll be the people attacking the AI they'll be the people attacking the AI guys, but then they're going to come guys, but then they're going to come guys, but then they're going to come after me and some other people and they after me and some other people and they after me and some other people and they go, "But you know what? You IoT people go, "But you know what? You IoT people go, "But you know what? You IoT people connected the whole planet to connected the whole planet to connected the whole planet to everything. [laughter] everything. [laughter] everything. [laughter] >> And if you had not done that, AI would >> And if you had not done that, AI would >> And if you had not done that, AI would not have been able to infiltrate not have been able to infiltrate not have been able to infiltrate everything. So, it's actually your everything. So, it's actually your everything. So, it's actually your fault." And then I'll be fault." And then I'll be fault." And then I'll be >> if you read Rob Tiffany's book, you >> if you read Rob Tiffany's book, you >> if you read Rob Tiffany's book, you would be in chains. would be in chains. would be in chains. >> Hey, the EU Cyber Resiliency Act is now >> Hey, the EU Cyber Resiliency Act is now >> Hey, the EU Cyber Resiliency Act is now in effect. So, you know, in effect. So, you know, in effect. So, you know, >> Oh, thank God. >> Oh, thank God. >> Oh, thank God. >> Well, you know, >> Well, you know, >> Well, you know, >> finally 20 years later. >> finally 20 years later. >> finally 20 years later. >> Finally. Yeah. [laughter] >> Finally. Yeah. [laughter] >> Finally. Yeah. [laughter] >> That actually it kicked in last week. >> That actually it kicked in last week. >> That actually it kicked in last week. So, So, So, >> yeah. But, you know, and I'm excited >> yeah. But, you know, and I'm excited >> yeah. But, you know, and I'm excited about that, dude. That's great. about that, dude. That's great. about that, dude. That's great. >> That's actually awesome. the uh the >> That's actually awesome. the uh the >> That's actually awesome. the uh the stuff we've seen happen. You know, stuff we've seen happen. You know, stuff we've seen happen. You know, obviously last, you know, we talked obviously last, you know, we talked obviously last, you know, we talked about all the the water supply things about all the the water supply things about all the the water supply things being attacked and then and then yeah, being attacked and then and then yeah, being attacked and then and then yeah, Devon, you mentioned obviously we had Devon, you mentioned obviously we had Devon, you mentioned obviously we had the airline thing yesterday, which may the airline thing yesterday, which may the airline thing yesterday, which may or may not have been a thing, but that or may not have been a thing, but that or may not have been a thing, but that biggest fear that we always had with IoT biggest fear that we always had with IoT biggest fear that we always had with IoT because everybody's like, we're going to because everybody's like, we're going to because everybody's like, we're going to span that bridge between OT and IT and span that bridge between OT and IT and span that bridge between OT and IT and everything and and all of a sudden we're everything and and all of a sudden we're everything and and all of a sudden we're going to connect critical infrastructure going to connect critical infrastructure going to connect critical infrastructure to the internet, [laughter] to the internet, [laughter] to the internet, [laughter] you know, and it's like we were so you know, and it's like we were so you know, and it's like we were so wrong, you know, and we kept wrong, you know, and we kept wrong, you know, and we kept Don't do it. And I remember so many Don't do it. And I remember so many Don't do it. And I remember so many times I remember I was at Microsoft and times I remember I was at Microsoft and times I remember I was at Microsoft and you'd go, you know, talk to the like you'd go, you know, talk to the like you'd go, you know, talk to the like power companies, the transmission lines, power companies, the transmission lines, power companies, the transmission lines, and you'd see there's the OT network,

and you'd see there's the OT network, and you'd see there's the OT network, but then they went ahead and connected but then they went ahead and connected but then they went ahead and connected it to the rest of the network with it to the rest of the network with it to the rest of the network with everybody else with a cubicle. everybody else with a cubicle. everybody else with a cubicle. >> So you get like Microsoft Teams >> So you get like Microsoft Teams >> So you get like Microsoft Teams notifications. notifications. notifications. >> Exactly. I wanted notifications. It made >> Exactly. I wanted notifications. It made >> Exactly. I wanted notifications. It made it more convenient for us. And it's like it more convenient for us. And it's like it more convenient for us. And it's like ah, [laughter] yeah, they don't know ah, [laughter] yeah, they don't know ah, [laughter] yeah, they don't know about like network segmentation and about like network segmentation and about like network segmentation and channels and all that. channels and all that. channels and all that. >> OT needs to do OT and it needs to do it. >> OT needs to do OT and it needs to do it. >> OT needs to do OT and it needs to do it. >> Yeah, but this whole this whole thing >> Yeah, but this whole this whole thing >> Yeah, but this whole this whole thing has been Oh, we're going to has been Oh, we're going to has been Oh, we're going to >> Oh, I know. Well, that was a that was a >> Oh, I know. Well, that was a that was a >> Oh, I know. Well, that was a that was a whole trend for a long time. Can I do a whole trend for a long time. Can I do a whole trend for a long time. Can I do a quick PSA, Leonard, on quick PSA, Leonard, on quick PSA, Leonard, on >> uh resiliency? So, we launched this >> uh resiliency? So, we launched this >> uh resiliency? So, we launched this resilient America preparedness resilient America preparedness resilient America preparedness challenge. challenge. challenge. >> So, talk about doing AI for good. uh AI >> So, talk about doing AI for good. uh AI >> So, talk about doing AI for good. uh AI doing good things because we tal we doing good things because we tal we doing good things because we tal we spent the whole time today talking about spent the whole time today talking about spent the whole time today talking about AI doing nasty things but AI doing nasty things but AI doing nasty things but >> no not AI people >> no not AI people >> no not AI people >> people people doing nasty things with AI >> people people doing nasty things with AI >> people people doing nasty things with AI but people can do good things with AI so but people can do good things with AI so but people can do good things with AI so you go to edjifoundation.org or we have you go to edjifoundation.org or we have you go to edjifoundation.org or we have a new challenge running through the end a new challenge running through the end a new challenge running through the end of the year, engineering challenge with of the year, engineering challenge with of the year, engineering challenge with lots of cool prizes and I think there's lots of cool prizes and I think there's lots of cool prizes and I think there's going to be some kind of cool showcase going to be some kind of cool showcase going to be some kind of cool showcase celebration at CES, but don't tell celebration at CES, but don't tell celebration at CES, but don't tell anybody. Um, but you can enter as a team anybody. Um, but you can enter as a team anybody. Um, but you can enter as a team uh the Resilient America Preparedness uh the Resilient America Preparedness uh the Resilient America Preparedness Challenge to do kind of disaster Challenge to do kind of disaster Challenge to do kind of disaster preparedness and and recovery solutions preparedness and and recovery solutions preparedness and and recovery solutions based on Edge AI. And thank you Qualcomm based on Edge AI. And thank you Qualcomm based on Edge AI. And thank you Qualcomm and Arduino and Edge Impulse as sponsors and Arduino and Edge Impulse as sponsors and Arduino and Edge Impulse as sponsors on this. Um, and you can they'll get you on this. Um, and you can they'll get you on this. Um, and you can they'll get you an UNOQ and there's all kinds of cool an UNOQ and there's all kinds of cool an UNOQ and there's all kinds of cool prizes and stuff. So, go to prizes and stuff. So, go to prizes and stuff. So, go to afoundation.org, afoundation.org, afoundation.org, join in on the challenge, show us some join in on the challenge, show us some join in on the challenge, show us some good stuff you can do with AI to help good stuff you can do with AI to help good stuff you can do with AI to help people prepare and and recover from

people prepare and and recover from people prepare and and recover from disasters, natural disasters and things. disasters, natural disasters and things. disasters, natural disasters and things. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> That's my PSA. >> That's my PSA. >> That's my PSA. >> I love that. I think the UNO Q is even >> I love that. I think the UNO Q is even >> I love that. I think the UNO Q is even mentioned in this book here. mentioned in this book here. mentioned in this book here. >> And then you get May maybe we should >> And then you get May maybe we should >> And then you get May maybe we should give a book out as one of the prizes, give a book out as one of the prizes, give a book out as one of the prizes, Rob. Handsigned. Rob. Handsigned. Rob. Handsigned. >> Handsigned. Yeah. Tiffany delivered to >> Handsigned. Yeah. Tiffany delivered to >> Handsigned. Yeah. Tiffany delivered to your house personally. your house personally. your house personally. >> Yeah. Right. I like that. >> Yeah. Right. I like that. >> Yeah. Right. I like that. >> Well, we were originally until, you >> Well, we were originally until, you >> Well, we were originally until, you know, until um uh Rob started getting us know, until um uh Rob started getting us know, until um uh Rob started getting us on this whole uh AI train here. We were on this whole uh AI train here. We were on this whole uh AI train here. We were going to talk about one of the chapters going to talk about one of the chapters going to talk about one of the chapters in his book. Um but maybe we'll do that in his book. Um but maybe we'll do that in his book. Um but maybe we'll do that next. Next time next. Next time next. Next time >> we'll have to plan and ultimately it >> we'll have to plan and ultimately it >> we'll have to plan and ultimately it would have to be actually each use case, would have to be actually each use case, would have to be actually each use case, >> you know, because so there's a chapter >> you know, because so there's a chapter >> you know, because so there's a chapter per sustainable development goal and per sustainable development goal and per sustainable development goal and then there could be as many as then there could be as many as then there could be as many as >> 10 15 use cases within that and each one >> 10 15 use cases within that and each one >> 10 15 use cases within that and each one probably probably probably >> are are are you saying the next hundred >> are are are you saying the next hundred >> are are are you saying the next hundred episodes IoT coffee talk are going to be episodes IoT coffee talk are going to be episodes IoT coffee talk are going to be about your book about your book about your book >> will be actually about IoT. >> will be actually about IoT. >> will be actually about IoT. >> Sounds like you said it actually. Yeah.

>> Sounds like you said it actually. Yeah. >> Sounds like you said it actually. Yeah. Well, you know, it was about time we Well, you know, it was about time we Well, you know, it was about time we talked about IoT. SO, WE'RE BRINGING IT talked about IoT. SO, WE'RE BRINGING IT talked about IoT. SO, WE'RE BRINGING IT BACK. BACK. BACK. >> BRING it back, baby. >> BRING it back, baby. >> BRING it back, baby. >> And you guys, Rob and Leonard, you'll >> And you guys, Rob and Leonard, you'll >> And you guys, Rob and Leonard, you'll both be in Amsterdam, right? So, we're both be in Amsterdam, right? So, we're both be in Amsterdam, right? So, we're gonna have a panel discussion at the gonna have a panel discussion at the gonna have a panel discussion at the Things Conference in Amsterdam, and this Things Conference in Amsterdam, and this Things Conference in Amsterdam, and this will be one of the topics. will be one of the topics. will be one of the topics. >> We're going to join your panel. >> We're going to join your panel. >> We're going to join your panel. >> That is be awesome. And Devin, you're >> That is be awesome. And Devin, you're >> That is be awesome. And Devin, you're more than welcome to attend. more than welcome to attend. more than welcome to attend. >> Devin, you should come. You should >> Devin, you should come. You should >> Devin, you should come. You should >> get yourself over to Amsterdam and join >> get yourself over to Amsterdam and join >> get yourself over to Amsterdam and join in the fund. It's a great conference. in the fund. It's a great conference. in the fund. It's a great conference. >> Yeah. Really, really >> Yeah. Really, really >> Yeah. Really, really >> conference. Thousands of folks all tuned >> conference. Thousands of folks all tuned >> conference. Thousands of folks all tuned in to low power edge stuff. So, it's in to low power edge stuff. So, it's in to low power edge stuff. So, it's going to be lot going to be lot going to be lot >> Winky's conference. >> Winky's conference. >> Winky's conference. >> Yeah. September 22nd, 23rd, Amsterdam. >> Yeah. September 22nd, 23rd, Amsterdam. >> Yeah. September 22nd, 23rd, Amsterdam. So, uh I will say one more PSA. Uh So, uh I will say one more PSA. Uh So, uh I will say one more PSA. Uh September 18th, we have a one-day event September 18th, we have a one-day event September 18th, we have a one-day event in Washington DC, which is free. So, you in Washington DC, which is free. So, you in Washington DC, which is free. So, you can apply to attend and the Edge AI can apply to attend and the Edge AI can apply to attend and the Edge AI Defense Symposium. Defense Symposium. Defense Symposium. >> Um I got off a call this morning. It's >> Um I got off a call this morning. It's >> Um I got off a call this morning. It's going to be held at the John's Hopkins going to be held at the John's Hopkins going to be held at the John's Hopkins building right on Pennsylvania Avenue. building right on Pennsylvania Avenue. building right on Pennsylvania Avenue. So, it's be super awesome. So, it's be super awesome. So, it's be super awesome. >> That's so cool. >> That's so cool. >> That's so cool. >> So, go to our edjifoundation.org >> So, go to our edjifoundation.org >> So, go to our edjifoundation.org website. You can apply to attend that. website. You can apply to attend that. website. You can apply to attend that. It's getting pretty full though. Uh, but It's getting pretty full though. Uh, but It's getting pretty full though. Uh, but >> DC, if you're in the DC area and you >> DC, if you're in the DC area and you >> DC, if you're in the DC area and you want to meet and greet with John's want to meet and greet with John's want to meet and greet with John's Hopkins folks and researchers and Hopkins folks and researchers and Hopkins folks and researchers and >> prime contractors doing cool AJI stuff, >> prime contractors doing cool AJI stuff, >> prime contractors doing cool AJI stuff, that's another fun thing to do in that's another fun thing to do in that's another fun thing to do in September.

September. September. >> See, >> See, >> See, >> generals, admirals, >> generals, admirals, >> generals, admirals, >> usual. >> usual. >> usual. >> Admiral Abbar will be there. >> Admiral Abbar will be there. >> Admiral Abbar will be there. >> Admiral Abar will [laughter] pop over >> Admiral Abar will [laughter] pop over >> Admiral Abar will [laughter] pop over from the Pentagon. from the Pentagon. from the Pentagon. >> It's a trap. >> It's a trap. >> It's a trap. >> It's a trap. [laughter] >> It's a trap. [laughter] >> It's a trap. [laughter] >> That's what we're going to say. that's >> That's what we're going to say. that's >> That's what we're going to say. that's gonna be in the movie. [laughter] gonna be in the movie. [laughter] gonna be in the movie. [laughter] >> It's a trap. >> It's a trap. >> It's a trap. >> That's hilarious. >> That's hilarious. >> That's hilarious. >> Yeah. No, you know what? I think there's >> Yeah. No, you know what? I think there's >> Yeah. No, you know what? I think there's a lot of opportunity in um AI defense a lot of opportunity in um AI defense a lot of opportunity in um AI defense and responsible AI because there's, you and responsible AI because there's, you and responsible AI because there's, you know, if anything, there's plenty of know, if anything, there's plenty of know, if anything, there's plenty of like bad implementations out there. So, like bad implementations out there. So, like bad implementations out there. So, remediation remediation remediation >> is going to be a bright spot for >> is going to be a bright spot for >> is going to be a bright spot for everyone. So, it it's not all dark everyone. So, it it's not all dark everyone. So, it it's not all dark stuff. This is all good guys stuff, stuff. This is all good guys stuff, stuff. This is all good guys stuff, right? Now, we can be good guys. Clean right? Now, we can be good guys. Clean right? Now, we can be good guys. Clean up the stuff. The crap. up the stuff. The crap. up the stuff. The crap. >> Let's clean it up. >> Let's clean it up. >> Let's clean it up. >> Let's clean it up. Leonard. Leonard, >> Let's clean it up. Leonard. Leonard, >> Let's clean it up. Leonard. Leonard, you're the cleaner, Mr. Wolf. you're the cleaner, Mr. Wolf. you're the cleaner, Mr. Wolf. >> I am. Yeah. Anybody wants to know how to >> I am. Yeah. Anybody wants to know how to >> I am. Yeah. Anybody wants to know how to do it, give me a call. [laughter] do it, give me a call. [laughter] do it, give me a call. [laughter] >> I love it. I love it. >> I love it. I love it. >> I love it. I love it. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> It doesn't seem like anyone else does. >> It doesn't seem like anyone else does. >> It doesn't seem like anyone else does. So, So, So, >> nobody really wants to. Yeah.

>> nobody really wants to. Yeah. >> nobody really wants to. Yeah. >> Yeah. Pay me a lot of money. [laughter] [snorts] [snorts] >> All right, guys. You want to wrap it up? >> All right, guys. You want to wrap it up? >> All right, guys. You want to wrap it up? >> Yeah. I need to jump. >> Yeah. I need to jump. >> Yeah. I need to jump. >> Yeah. Been fun. >> Yeah. Been fun. >> Yeah. Been fun. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Except for the dark parts. It's been >> Except for the dark parts. It's been >> Except for the dark parts. It's been fun. fun. fun. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Except for that. Thanks everyone >> Yeah. Except for that. Thanks everyone >> Yeah. Except for that. Thanks everyone for joining us on this wonderful bright for joining us on this wonderful bright for joining us on this wonderful bright shiny episode of IoT Coffee Talk. We did shiny episode of IoT Coffee Talk. We did shiny episode of IoT Coffee Talk. We did mention IoT. It may have connected mention IoT. It may have connected mention IoT. It may have connected airports and you know critical airports and you know critical airports and you know critical infrastructure and all those water infrastructure and all those water infrastructure and all those water supply deals so that agents and supply deals so that agents and supply deals so that agents and attackers can get to it. And maybe we attackers can get to it. And maybe we attackers can get to it. And maybe we shouldn't have connected them. I don't shouldn't have connected them. I don't shouldn't have connected them. I don't know. But anyway, we did. It seemed cool know. But anyway, we did. It seemed cool know. But anyway, we did. It seemed cool at the time. And that's why it's all at the time. And that's why it's all at the time. And that's why it's all IoT, baby. Uh, and IoT, baby. Uh, and IoT, baby. Uh, and Leonard's got binoculars cuz the radar Leonard's got binoculars cuz the radar Leonard's got binoculars cuz the radar is not working. So, that's good. See, is not working. So, that's good. See, is not working. So, that's good. See, resourceful, you know, he's he's resourceful, you know, he's he's resourceful, you know, he's he's scrappy. Hope to see you next week. scrappy. Hope to see you next week. scrappy. Hope to see you next week. [laughter] We're out. Adios. [laughter] We're out. Adios. [laughter] We're out. Adios. >> See you. >> See you. >> See you. >> See you.