IoT Coffee Talk Episode 236 - 42

right hold on right hold on [Applause] all right welcome to iot Coffee Talk all right welcome to iot Coffee Talk everyone for those of you know who don't everyone for those of you know who don't everyone for those of you know who don't know what that tune was that is Spain by know what that tune was that is Spain by know what that tune was that is Spain by the legendary the legendary the legendary chick Korea and the electric bander chick Korea and the electric bander chick Korea and the electric bander something oh my gosh I'm losing my mind something oh my gosh I'm losing my mind something oh my gosh I'm losing my mind in my memory good good cultural starting in my memory good good cultural starting in my memory good good cultural starting point there yeah even though I don't point there yeah even though I don't point there yeah even though I don't think this episode is going to have think this episode is going to have think this episode is going to have anything to do with Spain but uh Steve anything to do with Spain but uh Steve anything to do with Spain but uh Steve how's it going man we haven't seen you how's it going man we haven't seen you how's it going man we haven't seen you in a while yeah on mute it's Friday in a while yeah on mute it's Friday in a while yeah on mute it's Friday Friday's a tough day so I mean Friday's a tough day so I mean Friday's a tough day so I mean Wednesday's a tough day but Friday's Wednesday's a tough day but Friday's Wednesday's a tough day but Friday's better so we'll we'll see what next you better so we'll we'll see what next you better so we'll we'll see what next you know maybe we should move it what do you know maybe we should move it what do you know maybe we should move it what do you think I like Fridays I mean it's just a think I like Fridays I mean it's just a think I like Fridays I mean it's just a great way because you know after we get great way because you know after we get great way because you know after we get off of this I off of this I off of this I mean off the rest of the day and start mean off the rest of the day and start mean off the rest of the day and start drinking so it's drinking so it's drinking so it's perfect some day drinking well we we'll perfect some day drinking well we we'll perfect some day drinking well we we'll have to do a little poll and see if we have to do a little poll and see if we have to do a little poll and see if we move the day to Friday because when we

move the day to Friday because when we move the day to Friday because when we move to Friday it seems like everyone's move to Friday it seems like everyone's move to Friday it seems like everyone's able to join you know or at Le a lot able to join you know or at Le a lot able to join you know or at Le a lot larger number of folks are able to join larger number of folks are able to join larger number of folks are able to join so uh Hey Demitri what's up in South so uh Hey Demitri what's up in South so uh Hey Demitri what's up in South Park seems fine in South Park so we we Park seems fine in South Park so we we Park seems fine in South Park so we we have kind of a storm going on in the Bay have kind of a storm going on in the Bay have kind of a storm going on in the Bay Area so a lot of wind and is that part Area so a lot of wind and is that part Area so a lot of wind and is that part of that bomb Cyclone that Pete's of that bomb Cyclone that Pete's of that bomb Cyclone that Pete's suffering I haven't checked I I don't suffering I haven't checked I I don't suffering I haven't checked I I don't know if it's related but it's yet know if it's related but it's yet know if it's related but it's yet another weather catastrophe yeah it's another weather catastrophe yeah it's another weather catastrophe yeah it's probably it's it's snowing in Paris probably it's it's snowing in Paris probably it's it's snowing in Paris apparently right now getting of my apparently right now getting of my apparently right now getting of my friends with moon boots so it's hey we friends with moon boots so it's hey we friends with moon boots so it's hey we of the planet so we have to live with it of the planet so we have to live with it of the planet so we have to live with it now as well fashion GL warming baby now as well fashion GL warming baby now as well fashion GL warming baby global warming at its best I think global warming at its best I think global warming at its best I think that's what everyone's resigned to it's that's what everyone's resigned to it's that's what everyone's resigned to it's like look you know what um tough like look you know what um tough like look you know what um tough [ __ ] you know we just deal with it and I [ __ ] you know we just deal with it and I [ __ ] you know we just deal with it and I think some people find out as a profit think some people find out as a profit think some people find out as a profit opportunity a way of uh making money off opportunity a way of uh making money off opportunity a way of uh making money off of the massive uh destru destruction and of the massive uh destru destruction and of the massive uh destru destruction and disruption that's that's going to happen disruption that's that's going to happen disruption that's that's going to happen kind of like you know Fifth Element you kind of like you know Fifth Element you kind of like you know Fifth Element you know that guy know that guy know that guy zor that was his whole thing right you zor that was his whole thing right you zor that was his whole thing right you cause um chaos you destroy a bunch of cause um chaos you destroy a bunch of cause um chaos you destroy a bunch of stuff and then you rebuild and that's stuff and then you rebuild and that's stuff and then you rebuild and that's how you you make money there you go yeah how you you make money there you go yeah how you you make money there you go yeah well I was gonna I was gonna say um my well I was gonna I was gonna say um my well I was gonna I was gonna say um my uh my weather story is we've been out

uh my weather story is we've been out uh my weather story is we've been out out of power here since Tuesday today's out of power here since Tuesday today's out of power here since Tuesday today's Friday so um we've but it's me and like Friday so um we've but it's me and like Friday so um we've but it's me and like another 100,000 people in the Seattle AA another 100,000 people in the Seattle AA another 100,000 people in the Seattle AA I was wondering if Rob was going to tune I was wondering if Rob was going to tune I was wondering if Rob was going to tune in if he has power but I now I go to in if he has power but I now I go to in if he has power but I now I go to McDonald's in the morning here in the McDonald's in the morning here in the McDonald's in the morning here in the parking lot and use their Wi-Fi and get parking lot and use their Wi-Fi and get parking lot and use their Wi-Fi and get some coffee and then that's this is my some coffee and then that's this is my some coffee and then that's this is my routine so this this actually works out routine so this this actually works out routine so this this actually works out pretty nicely it's pouring rain right pretty nicely it's pouring rain right pretty nicely it's pouring rain right now too so are you Ser come back now too so are you Ser come back now too so are you Ser come back tomorrow yeah but you know what you look tomorrow yeah but you know what you look tomorrow yeah but you know what you look great thank you yeah your skin looks you great thank you yeah your skin looks you great thank you yeah your skin looks you know the skin tones just freaking know the skin tones just freaking know the skin tones just freaking perfect so now I know why all these perfect so now I know why all these perfect so now I know why all these young women and YouTubers they're always young women and YouTubers they're always young women and YouTubers they're always recording crap in their cars you know recording crap in their cars you know recording crap in their cars you know cuz maybe that's it yeah reflection yeah cuz maybe that's it yeah reflection yeah cuz maybe that's it yeah reflection yeah you got to do that so pet pet I was you got to do that so pet pet I was you got to do that so pet pet I was saying that this monstrosity of saying that this monstrosity of saying that this monstrosity of nutrition is now becoming Public nutrition is now becoming Public nutrition is now becoming Public [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] Service I think wrong in the world we're Service I think wrong in the world we're Service I think wrong in the world we're leing right and we are probably leing right and we are probably leing right and we are probably responsible for it yeah it's all your responsible for it yeah it's all your responsible for it yeah it's all your fault yeah Collective responsibility I fault yeah Collective responsibility I fault yeah Collective responsibility I said we I said we I didn't say he no I said we I said we I didn't say he no I said we I said we I didn't say he no I said you said you said you you of course yeah of course the French you of course yeah of course the French you of course yeah of course the French we need everything yeah what's up Bill we need everything yeah what's up Bill we need everything yeah what's up Bill how's it going it's going man it's going how's it going it's going man it's going how's it going it's going man it's going yeah that's that's an understatement yeah that's that's an understatement yeah that's that's an understatement it's just a lot of crazy stuff happening it's just a lot of crazy stuff happening it's just a lot of crazy stuff happening this week right um you had time of the this week right um you had time of the this week right um you had time of the year right I mean everything everything year right I mean everything everything year right I mean everything everything is crazy particularly after you know

is crazy particularly after you know is crazy particularly after you know post election and all of that stuff post election and all of that stuff post election and all of that stuff that's yeah you know I mean I just that's yeah you know I mean I just that's yeah you know I mean I just jumped off a nist call jumped off a nist call jumped off a nist call and and you know everything is up in the and and you know everything is up in the and and you know everything is up in the air uh you know yeah well you know the air uh you know yeah well you know the air uh you know yeah well you know the that's that's the smart city folks yes yeah it is everything is up in the yes yeah it is everything is up in the air go ahead oh air go ahead oh air go ahead oh someone's yeah but yeah but look what someone's yeah but yeah but look what someone's yeah but yeah but look what the FCC did today though they finally the FCC did today though they finally the FCC did today though they finally approved approved approved cv2x at 5.9 cv2x at 5.9 cv2x at 5.9 so somebody's doing something today so somebody's doing something today so somebody's doing something today thank God thank God right that I mean thank God thank God right that I mean thank God thank God right that I mean but is that is that really a big deal I but is that is that really a big deal I but is that is that really a big deal I mean is it I mean 5.9 that's dsrc right mean is it I mean 5.9 that's dsrc right mean is it I mean 5.9 that's dsrc right so yeah I mean it's still more of the so yeah I mean it's still more of the so yeah I mean it's still more of the same as far as as far as from my same as far as as far as from my same as far as as far as from my perspective and you know in my humble perspective and you know in my humble perspective and you know in my humble opinion uh you know you're not going to opinion uh you know you're not going to opinion uh you know you're not going to have every single vehicle equipped with have every single vehicle equipped with have every single vehicle equipped with that yeah I mean no but I mean but if if that yeah I mean no but I mean but if if that yeah I mean no but I mean but if if Ford is the one that's driving us they Ford is the one that's driving us they Ford is the one that's driving us they end up doing something with it it' be end up doing something with it it' be end up doing something with it it' be great to be able to see if this [ __ ] great to be able to see if this [ __ ] great to be able to see if this [ __ ] works yeah well I mean it does work it's works yeah well I mean it does work it's works yeah well I mean it does work it's just it's you need it to be ubiquitous just it's you need it to be ubiquitous just it's you need it to be ubiquitous yeah and and then underneath that yeah and and then underneath that yeah and and then underneath that transport layer or basically on top of transport layer or basically on top of transport layer or basically on top of that transport layer um the messages that transport layer um the messages that transport layer um the messages that are being exchanged need to be that are being exchanged need to be that are being exchanged need to be trusted yeah absolutely hey you know

trusted yeah absolutely hey you know trusted yeah absolutely hey you know Debbie's on she's just imitating her and Debbie's on she's just imitating her and Debbie's on she's just imitating her and just being like a voice agent instead just being like a voice agent instead just being like a voice agent instead of I'm glad to see Debbie because one of of I'm glad to see Debbie because one of of I'm glad to see Debbie because one of her posts this week was like I was I was her posts this week was like I was I was her posts this week was like I was I was watching it and it took me a minute to watching it and it took me a minute to watching it and it took me a minute to actually RE reply but that verata stuff actually RE reply but that verata stuff actually RE reply but that verata stuff oh yeah right and and I'm looking at all oh yeah right and and I'm looking at all oh yeah right and and I'm looking at all of the all the comments and everything of the all the comments and everything of the all the comments and everything and I'm like personally I feel like a and I'm like personally I feel like a and I'm like personally I feel like a lot of people only comment within their lot of people only comment within their lot of people only comment within their domain yeah and and it's much larger domain yeah and and it's much larger domain yeah and and it's much larger than any independent domain it is I mean than any independent domain it is I mean than any independent domain it is I mean you have to look at it holistically you have to look at it holistically you have to look at it holistically right so there were comments about you right so there were comments about you right so there were comments about you know not everything's made for the cloud know not everything's made for the cloud know not everything's made for the cloud well I mean it's not a cloud problem well I mean it's not a cloud problem well I mean it's not a cloud problem right it's you know it so I I had a lot right it's you know it so I I had a lot right it's you know it so I I had a lot to say and and I always find it to say and and I always find it to say and and I always find it interesting if you say something and you interesting if you say something and you interesting if you say something and you don't get a response you don't get a don't get a response you don't get a don't get a response you don't get a response people are like you know what response people are like you know what response people are like you know what I'm GNA leave that one alone I'm GNA leave that one alone I'm GNA leave that one alone right this is true this is true right this is true this is true right this is true this is true I know yeah that that right to me that's I know yeah that that right to me that's I know yeah that that right to me that's an example of something that has a lot an example of something that has a lot an example of something that has a lot of arms and legs because of all the of arms and legs because of all the of arms and legs because of all the stuff that the devices can do and you stuff that the devices can do and you stuff that the devices can do and you know the the vulnerabilities that you know the the vulnerabilities that you know the the vulnerabilities that you have when people don't manage data have when people don't manage data have when people don't manage data properly so I thought it was an properly so I thought it was an properly so I thought it was an interesting interesting interesting example yep yeah you know um I Gotta example yep yeah you know um I Gotta example yep yeah you know um I Gotta Give I gotta give Debbie Give I gotta give Debbie Give I gotta give Debbie props because you know what she's

props because you know what she's props because you know what she's amazing I I'm I like listen in on or I amazing I I'm I like listen in on or I amazing I I'm I like listen in on or I try to participate and contribute to try to participate and contribute to try to participate and contribute to this i e thing she's got going on uh this i e thing she's got going on uh this i e thing she's got going on uh it's called it's for the human it's called it's for the human it's called it's for the human centricity was it it's human centricity centricity was it it's human centricity centricity was it it's human centricity right mancity for connected systems yeah right mancity for connected systems yeah right mancity for connected systems yeah yeah you know you are good you are good yeah you know you are good you are good yeah you know you are good you are good I I love watching you in action it's I I love watching you in action it's I I love watching you in action it's like I I have this big smile on my face like I I have this big smile on my face like I I have this big smile on my face you know behind my my little you know behind my my little you know behind my my little thumbnail you do a wonderful job and um thumbnail you do a wonderful job and um thumbnail you do a wonderful job and um people just don't know they just know people just don't know they just know people just don't know they just know you as a data Diva but they that that's you as a data Diva but they that that's you as a data Diva but they that that's that's not it but yeah you you're doing that's not it but yeah you you're doing that's not it but yeah you you're doing some wonderful work and it's great to some wonderful work and it's great to some wonderful work and it's great to see you in action so um yeah any of you see you in action so um yeah any of you see you in action so um yeah any of you smart people out there that want to get smart people out there that want to get smart people out there that want to get involved with itle E and some of the involved with itle E and some of the involved with itle E and some of the projects that they have especially uh to projects that they have especially uh to projects that they have especially uh to foster a better human a better human foster a better human a better human foster a better human a better human oriented digital future man um you know oriented digital future man um you know oriented digital future man um you know check out what she's check out what she's check out what she's doing um yeah no it should it forgets doing um yeah no it should it forgets doing um yeah no it should it forgets smart people any people any people smart people any people any people smart people any people any people because I can tell you my my because I can tell you my my because I can tell you my my professional navigation system looks for professional navigation system looks for professional navigation system looks for the data the data the data Divas any any post that she has as the Divas any any post that she has as the Divas any any post that she has as the onramp to voice my opinion yeah yeah onramp to voice my opinion yeah yeah onramp to voice my opinion yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what's up Rob how's it yeah yeah yeah what's up Rob how's it yeah yeah yeah what's up Rob how's it going H going well how you doing Rob do

going H going well how you doing Rob do going H going well how you doing Rob do you have power there you have power there you have power there I do have power we've got the power I do have power we've got the power I do have power we've got the power you've got the power good for you you've got the power good for you you've got the power good for you actually actually I'm in Texas where we actually actually I'm in Texas where we actually actually I'm in Texas where we have power but um but my wife said that have power but um but my wife said that have power but um but my wife said that power came power came power came back yeah eating well eating well in back yeah eating well eating well in back yeah eating well eating well in Houston aren't we yeah you know I'm Houston aren't we yeah you know I'm Houston aren't we yeah you know I'm probably gained 100 pounds whenever I probably gained 100 pounds whenever I probably gained 100 pounds whenever I come to Texas you know it's just crazy come to Texas you know it's just crazy come to Texas you know it's just crazy you know start to live through you know start to live through you know start to live through vicariously through Rob's dinner plans vicariously through Rob's dinner plans vicariously through Rob's dinner plans we know we're in deep trouble I'm gonna we know we're in deep trouble I'm gonna we know we're in deep trouble I'm gonna take over guy Fury's job I love job I love it hey um before we start I want to know it hey um before we start I want to know it hey um before we start I want to know I want to let our iot coffee talk I want to let our iot coffee talk I want to let our iot coffee talk listeners to know that we have listeners to know that we have listeners to know that we have officially have our uh Elevate our kids officially have our uh Elevate our kids officially have our uh Elevate our kids um donation drive going on right now so um donation drive going on right now so um donation drive going on right now so if you are um if you're up for it you if you are um if you're up for it you if you are um if you're up for it you have a charitable heart please consider have a charitable heart please consider have a charitable heart please consider donating you know we're trying to raise donating you know we're trying to raise donating you know we're trying to raise a modest 25,000 to put laptops and a modest 25,000 to put laptops and a modest 25,000 to put laptops and connectivity in the hands of kids K connectivity in the hands of kids K connectivity in the hands of kids K through 12 and underserved and unserved through 12 and underserved and unserved through 12 and underserved and unserved communities and it seems like with all communities and it seems like with all communities and it seems like with all these natural disasters and everything these natural disasters and everything these natural disasters and everything else that that's getting that's becoming else that that's getting that's becoming else that that's getting that's becoming a bigger and bigger population um we're a bigger and bigger population um we're a bigger and bigger population um we're here to help them because you know here to help them because you know here to help them because you know number one it's the right thing to do number one it's the right thing to do number one it's the right thing to do and number um two is it did I say number and number um two is it did I say number and number um two is it did I say number two oh my God whenever I do I I freaking

two oh my God whenever I do I I freaking two oh my God whenever I do I I freaking get lost but anyway if you're not into get lost but anyway if you're not into get lost but anyway if you're not into charity but you're into fashion we have charity but you're into fashion we have charity but you're into fashion we have like some wonderful Christmas gift ideas like some wonderful Christmas gift ideas like some wonderful Christmas gift ideas for you yes right there look at Demitri for you yes right there look at Demitri for you yes right there look at Demitri in yeah in South Parkland digital South in yeah in South Parkland digital South in yeah in South Parkland digital South Parkland uh the Parkland uh the Parkland uh the metaverse yeah pick something up you metaverse yeah pick something up you metaverse yeah pick something up you know buy a a hoodie or a t-shirt for know buy a a hoodie or a t-shirt for know buy a a hoodie or a t-shirt for your entire family or your entire your entire family or your entire your entire family or your entire Village Village Village or by eight of them for or by eight of them for or by eight of them for Hanukkah there you go yes oh my God Hanukkah there you go yes oh my God Hanukkah there you go yes oh my God while you're and while you're at it while you're and while you're at it while you're and while you're at it happy Birthday to Stephanie oh yeah happy Birthday to Stephanie oh yeah happy Birthday to Stephanie oh yeah she yeah yes she is our she is our Rock she yeah yes she is our she is our Rock she yeah yes she is our she is our Rock uh to doing charity stuff she is just um uh to doing charity stuff she is just um uh to doing charity stuff she is just um she's wonderful but anyways this year she's wonderful but anyways this year she's wonderful but anyways this year please I'm glad you said that because please I'm glad you said that because please I'm glad you said that because $300 buys a brand new lap top for an $300 buys a brand new lap top for an $300 buys a brand new lap top for an underprivileged kid and it is a underprivileged kid and it is a underprivileged kid and it is a wonderful charity and I got I did my wonderful charity and I got I did my wonderful charity and I got I did my part this week so it's fantastic yeah part this week so it's fantastic yeah part this week so it's fantastic yeah and all you have to do that means all and all you have to do that means all and all you have to do that means all you have to do is sell two of your you have to do is sell two of your you have to do is sell two of your Nvidia Nvidia Nvidia stock not a chance yeah someone told me stock not a chance yeah someone told me stock not a chance yeah someone told me told me just someone told me just to told me just someone told me just to told me just someone told me just to sell one Bitcoin and that'd be good to sell one Bitcoin and that'd be good to sell one Bitcoin and that'd be good to go no not go no not go no not yet list said if you want to sell it for yet list said if you want to sell it for yet list said if you want to sell it for for $300 to buy a laptop I'll buy that

for $300 to buy a laptop I'll buy that for $300 to buy a laptop I'll buy that from you for 300 okay yeah I bet it's a from you for 300 okay yeah I bet it's a from you for 300 okay yeah I bet it's a lot of laptops I have some limited I lot of laptops I have some limited I lot of laptops I have some limited I have some limited edition gold sneakers have some limited edition gold sneakers have some limited edition gold sneakers I could sell I don't know if those are I could sell I don't know if those are I could sell I don't know if those are worth anything oh oh what do you got worth anything oh oh what do you got worth anything oh oh what do you got I'll take them love it love it anyway I'll take them love it love it anyway I'll take them love it love it anyway from the last election from the last election from the last election ohe awesome so ohe awesome so ohe awesome so www. elevar kids.org everyone so and we www. elevar kids.org everyone so and we www. elevar kids.org everyone so and we thank you in advance for your charity thank you in advance for your charity thank you in advance for your charity your generosity and the love your generosity and the love your generosity and the love that you give to these kids in um that you give to these kids in um that you give to these kids in um underserved and unserved communities so underserved and unserved communities so underserved and unserved communities so with that l so what's with that l so what's with that l so what's up by the way just on that just one more up by the way just on that just one more up by the way just on that just one more thing on that topic I saw a really good thing on that topic I saw a really good thing on that topic I saw a really good TV commercial the other day from AT&T TV commercial the other day from AT&T TV commercial the other day from AT&T and it was a narrative about a young man and it was a narrative about a young man and it was a narrative about a young man who was stressing about getting this who was stressing about getting this who was stressing about getting this paper in and getting this assignment paper in and getting this assignment paper in and getting this assignment done and it's a grade and he's like done and it's a grade and he's like done and it's a grade and he's like playing this narrative in his head and playing this narrative in his head and playing this narrative in his head and and he's in the back of his car and his and he's in the back of his car and his and he's in the back of his car and his parents are driving around and they parents are driving around and they parents are driving around and they drive him to like a McDonald's or drive him to like a McDonald's or drive him to like a McDonald's or whatever so he can get on Wi-Fi so he whatever so he can get on Wi-Fi so he whatever so he can get on Wi-Fi so he can finish his assignment and stuff so can finish his assignment and stuff so can finish his assignment and stuff so it was really I thought it was really it was really I thought it was really it was really I thought it was really powerful and yeah just kind of shows powerful and yeah just kind of shows powerful and yeah just kind of shows like these days to be you know like these days to be you know like these days to be you know competitive and to be really lean into competitive and to be really lean into competitive and to be really lean into learning you know you have to have the learning you know you have to have the learning you know you have to have the tech and um so it's really important for tech and um so it's really important for tech and um so it's really important for us to provide that for people so that us to provide that for people so that us to provide that for people so that was good yeah you're kind of in a was good yeah you're kind of in a was good yeah you're kind of in a similar situation right you're kind of similar situation right you're kind of similar situation right you're kind of you're in a digital divide right now at you're in a digital divide right now at you're in a digital divide right now at home so you're I I am using the home so you're I I am using the home so you're I I am using the McDonald's Wi-Fi and the McDonald's

McDonald's Wi-Fi and the McDonald's McDonald's Wi-Fi and the McDonald's buying my coffee paying for my Wi-Fi see buying my coffee paying for my Wi-Fi see buying my coffee paying for my Wi-Fi see so that means you're gonna make a big so that means you're gonna make a big so that means you're gonna make a big donation this year man I mean come on donation this year man I mean come on donation this year man I mean come on you want to talk about somebody who can you want to talk about somebody who can you want to talk about somebody who can have the ultimate empathy for the have the ultimate empathy for the have the ultimate empathy for the situation right that's well you know we situation right that's well you know we situation right that's well you know we have a non the Aji Foundation is a have a non the Aji Foundation is a have a non the Aji Foundation is a nonprofit and we uh we have empathy for nonprofit and we uh we have empathy for nonprofit and we uh we have empathy for other nonprofits other nonprofits other nonprofits so awesome so you can drive to the same so awesome so you can drive to the same so awesome so you can drive to the same McDonald as Pete as park by him and you McDonald as Pete as park by him and you McDonald as Pete as park by him and you buy you a coffee why you do your buy you a coffee why you do your buy you a coffee why you do your homework assignments using the the homework assignments using the the homework assignments using the the McDonald's Wi-Fi there you go I love it McDonald's Wi-Fi there you go I love it McDonald's Wi-Fi there you go I love it I love it no that's a good example we've I love it no that's a good example we've I love it no that's a good example we've certainly talked about all the ways kids certainly talked about all the ways kids certainly talked about all the ways kids have had to get have had to get have had to get connectivity uh when they don't have it connectivity uh when they don't have it connectivity uh when they don't have it at home parking next to the high school at home parking next to the high school at home parking next to the high school beaming Wi-Fi outside in the parking lot beaming Wi-Fi outside in the parking lot beaming Wi-Fi outside in the parking lot school buses with Wi-Fi all kinds of school buses with Wi-Fi all kinds of school buses with Wi-Fi all kinds of stuff so yeah that's good stuff so yeah that's good stuff so yeah that's good stuff yeah so what's going on in Tech stuff yeah so what's going on in Tech stuff yeah so what's going on in Tech this week too much is what we came you this week too much is what we came you this week too much is what we came you know what the answer is know what the answer is know what the answer is 42 everyone is just freaking wasting 42 everyone is just freaking wasting 42 everyone is just freaking wasting their time with all these geni their time with all these geni their time with all these geni supercomputers and Elon Musk like supercomputers and Elon Musk like supercomputers and Elon Musk like installing what installing what installing what 100,000 uh h200 or 100,000 uh h200 or 100,000 uh h200 or gb200 mvl 72s in his new uh X aai data gb200 mvl 72s in his new uh X aai data gb200 mvl 72s in his new uh X aai data center you're wishing just you're just center you're wishing just you're just center you're wishing just you're just like letters and numbers aren't you dude like letters and numbers aren't you dude like letters and numbers aren't you dude no yeah this whole world of like freaking crazy

this whole world of like freaking crazy crazy names for all these Technologies crazy names for all these Technologies crazy names for all these Technologies but yeah everyone's wasting their time but yeah everyone's wasting their time but yeah everyone's wasting their time the answer is 42 Douglas Adams figured the answer is 42 Douglas Adams figured the answer is 42 Douglas Adams figured it out like decades ago i' read that i' it out like decades ago i' read that i' it out like decades ago i' read that i' read that there's a bit of an ASM toote read that there's a bit of an ASM toote read that there's a bit of an ASM toote happening in some of the gigantic you happening in some of the gigantic you happening in some of the gigantic you know models that are being trained where know models that are being trained where know models that are being trained where they basically they they've already they basically they they've already they basically they they've already mined all of the YouTube videos and all mined all of the YouTube videos and all mined all of the YouTube videos and all the content that's out there and like the content that's out there and like the content that's out there and like basically we're reaching a point where basically we're reaching a point where basically we're reaching a point where there's just not enough more there's no there's just not enough more there's no there's just not enough more there's no more things to train on that humans have more things to train on that humans have more things to train on that humans have created to to actually enhance these created to to actually enhance these created to to actually enhance these models so we're we're I don't know if models so we're we're I don't know if models so we're we're I don't know if that means we're going to be some some that means we're going to be some some that means we're going to be some some ASM totas out there but that's a pretty ASM totas out there but that's a pretty ASM totas out there but that's a pretty big word for this crowd dude big word for this crowd dude big word for this crowd dude asmt asmt asmt yeah man wow well I mean some people yeah man wow well I mean some people yeah man wow well I mean some people might misconstrue that as as in toe so might misconstrue that as as in toe so might misconstrue that as as in toe so that's true yeah no I'm using that that's true yeah no I'm using that that's true yeah no I'm using that mathematical mathematical mathematical definition oh my God that's definition oh my God that's definition oh my God that's awesome it basically means fundamentally awesome it basically means fundamentally awesome it basically means fundamentally that whatever you get from all those that whatever you get from all those that whatever you get from all those large model is the maximum that Humanity large model is the maximum that Humanity large model is the maximum that Humanity can do because this is everything that can do because this is everything that can do because this is everything that we've written and done has been fed into we've written and done has been fed into we've written and done has been fed into this model so so Demitri Demetri would this model so so Demitri Demetri would this model so so Demitri Demetri would this be like verer from the original this be like verer from the original this be like verer from the original Star Trek movie learn all that is Star Trek movie learn all that is Star Trek movie learn all that is learnable and now you've learned it all learnable and now you've learned it all learnable and now you've learned it all exactly I mean from a kind of predictive exactly I mean from a kind of predictive exactly I mean from a kind of predictive language perspective he's really the K

language perspective he's really the K language perspective he's really the K so wow I know all right here some new so wow I know all right here some new so wow I know all right here some new here's some news have you heard Google here's some news have you heard Google here's some news have you heard Google pixel they might they decided to punt or pixel they might they decided to punt or pixel they might they decided to punt or something they're not going to build something they're not going to build something they're not going to build another another another tablet are they still building tablets I tablet are they still building tablets I tablet are they still building tablets I guess that's the news isn't it yeah I guess that's the news isn't it yeah I guess that's the news isn't it yeah I mean Samsung is still putting out some mean Samsung is still putting out some mean Samsung is still putting out some tablets and Google pixel tablets but tablets and Google pixel tablets but tablets and Google pixel tablets but maybe what I don't know what's up with maybe what I don't know what's up with maybe what I don't know what's up with that that they don't see enough revenue that that they don't see enough revenue that that they don't see enough revenue from that maybe I don't know I mean the from that maybe I don't know I mean the from that maybe I don't know I mean the FCC wants them wants them to be broken FCC wants them wants them to be broken FCC wants them wants them to be broken up right so yeah the Chrome browser is up right so yeah the Chrome browser is up right so yeah the Chrome browser is going to get potentially split off so going to get potentially split off so going to get potentially split off so but I think tablets be became a but I think tablets be became a but I think tablets be became a commodity a long time ago I know I know commodity a long time ago I know I know commodity a long time ago I know I know apple is still trying to breathe life apple is still trying to breathe life apple is still trying to breathe life into them but you know the perfect into them but you know the perfect into them but you know the perfect example of tablets being a commodity is example of tablets being a commodity is example of tablets being a commodity is Amazon continues to make their Fire Amazon continues to make their Fire Amazon continues to make their Fire tablet exactly what are those like yeah tablet exactly what are those like yeah tablet exactly what are those like yeah totally totally they're just giving them totally totally they're just giving them totally totally they're just giving them away like okay I'm sure that has some away like okay I'm sure that has some away like okay I'm sure that has some impact on the market for regular tablet impact on the market for regular tablet impact on the market for regular tablet makers that actually are trying to get makers that actually are trying to get makers that actually are trying to get some margin so yeah yeah is this like a some margin so yeah yeah is this like a some margin so yeah yeah is this like a big kle or what is this yeah oh my gosh big kle or what is this yeah oh my gosh big kle or what is this yeah oh my gosh I know oh my gosh by the way I don't I know oh my gosh by the way I don't I know oh my gosh by the way I don't know real real books yeah yes it's real know real real books yeah yes it's real know real real books yeah yes it's real books I was gonna say I don't know if books I was gonna say I don't know if books I was gonna say I don't know if you uh guys picked up on this but um my you uh guys picked up on this but um my you uh guys picked up on this but um my you know we talked about agism in Tech I you know we talked about agism in Tech I you know we talked about agism in Tech I think last time and then one of our think last time and then one of our think last time and then one of our recent episodes so my brother's my recent episodes so my brother's my recent episodes so my brother's my brother got laid off from General Motors brother got laid off from General Motors brother got laid off from General Motors last week after 39

last week after 39 last week after 39 years and he got an email at 5 in the years and he got an email at 5 in the years and he got an email at 5 in the morning saying you know thank you and morning saying you know thank you and morning saying you know thank you and that's the end of that it was like an that's the end of that it was like an that's the end of that it was like an anonymous email and um so he posted it anonymous email and um so he posted it anonymous email and um so he posted it on LinkedIn and got a ton of traction I on LinkedIn and got a ton of traction I on LinkedIn and got a ton of traction I mean it's like totally went viral and mean it's like totally went viral and mean it's like totally went viral and then someone did a Tik Tok on his then someone did a Tik Tok on his then someone did a Tik Tok on his LinkedIn that's had almost like two LinkedIn that's had almost like two LinkedIn that's had almost like two million views really then people are million views really then people are million views really then people are doing Tik toks on that Tik Tok so it's doing Tik toks on that Tik Tok so it's doing Tik toks on that Tik Tok so it's like Spiral into this whole story and like Spiral into this whole story and like Spiral into this whole story and he's become kind of a micro celebrity on he's become kind of a micro celebrity on he's become kind of a micro celebrity on agism and Tech wow wow I watched I agism and Tech wow wow I watched I agism and Tech wow wow I watched I watched the video on Tik Tok dude I mean watched the video on Tik Tok dude I mean watched the video on Tik Tok dude I mean that's serious stuff that's getting a that's serious stuff that's getting a that's serious stuff that's getting a lot of traction it was incredible he was lot of traction it was incredible he was lot of traction it was incredible he was like and he's fine he's got a great like and he's fine he's got a great like and he's fine he's got a great support system he actually just went out support system he actually just went out support system he actually just went out and bought a new car not GM uh yesterday and bought a new car not GM uh yesterday and bought a new car not GM uh yesterday but uh but uh but uh uh finally got the chance to buy a non uh finally got the chance to buy a non uh finally got the chance to buy a non GM car exactly exactly no guil he can GM car exactly exactly no guil he can GM car exactly exactly no guil he can buy a GM car and burn it that's true buy a GM car and burn it that's true buy a GM car and burn it that's true yeah just do that that would be a great yeah just do that that would be a great yeah just do that that would be a great Tik Tok I mean oh that would be that Tik Tok I mean oh that would be that Tik Tok I mean oh that would be that would really good wait wait let's call would really good wait wait let's call would really good wait wait let's call Mr Beast and tell him and loop him into Mr Beast and tell him and loop him into Mr Beast and tell him and loop him into this viral thing and have him burn a GM this viral thing and have him burn a GM this viral thing and have him burn a GM car related to this whole that'd be car related to this whole that'd be car related to this whole that'd be awesome it's crazy it's crazy so yeah it awesome it's crazy it's crazy so yeah it awesome it's crazy it's crazy so yeah it really touched a nerve I think for folks really touched a nerve I think for folks really touched a nerve I think for folks about this kind of anonymity of about this kind of anonymity of about this kind of anonymity of corporations that are discarding workers corporations that are discarding workers corporations that are discarding workers you know with uh just with an email you know with uh just with an email you know with uh just with an email after whatever almost 40 years of after whatever almost 40 years of after whatever almost 40 years of service so oh my God you know these big

service so oh my God you know these big service so oh my God you know these big companies don't understand you know companies don't understand you know companies don't understand you know they're like you're supposed to be loyal they're like you're supposed to be loyal they're like you're supposed to be loyal to us and they're like it's a two-way to us and they're like it's a two-way to us and they're like it's a two-way street you know no way man street you know no way man street you know no way man loyalty unfortunately this is unfortunately why unfortunately this is unfortunately why you need more regulations because false you need more regulations because false you need more regulations because false of security of security of security regulations what was that bill it's a regulations what was that bill it's a regulations what was that bill it's a false sense of security oh yeah I mean false sense of security oh yeah I mean false sense of security oh yeah I mean that's that we we we talked about this that's that we we we talked about this that's that we we we talked about this before I mean it's it's the reason it is before I mean it's it's the reason it is before I mean it's it's the reason it is the reason that I do what I do because the reason that I do what I do because the reason that I do what I do because having been in in companies and having having been in in companies and having having been in in companies and having been told hey get the they dangle the in been told hey get the they dangle the in been told hey get the they dangle the in front of you and say hey just do this front of you and say hey just do this front of you and say hey just do this there's the false sense of security that there's the false sense of security that there's the false sense of security that if I stay long enough my 401k or my if I stay long enough my 401k or my if I stay long enough my 401k or my pension will be X and none of that is pension will be X and none of that is pension will be X and none of that is true you can be you can be a shining true you can be you can be a shining true you can be you can be a shining star today and out the door tomorrow star today and out the door tomorrow star today and out the door tomorrow yeah I tell people like you know you yeah I tell people like you know you yeah I tell people like you know you don't have a gold watch or a steak don't have a gold watch or a steak don't have a gold watch or a steak dinner in your future okay exactly dinner in your future okay exactly dinner in your future okay exactly they're gonna make they're gonna make they're gonna make they're gonna make they're gonna make they're gonna make sure they cut you loose before you get sure they cut you loose before you get sure they cut you loose before you get to that you know like maybe our parents to that you know like maybe our parents to that you know like maybe our parents maybe our parents have jobs where they maybe our parents have jobs where they maybe our parents have jobs where they could save 40 years and you know retire could save 40 years and you know retire could save 40 years and you know retire but that's just not the future that's but that's just not the future that's but that's just not the future that's not the way do today so that's just the not the way do today so that's just the not the way do today so that's just the reality I was just one week away from reality I was just one week away from reality I was just one week away from getting my timx gold watch and they cut getting my timx gold watch and they cut getting my timx gold watch and they cut me me me loose yeah but you're right times have

loose yeah but you're right times have loose yeah but you're right times have changed and they it's not new I mean I changed and they it's not new I mean I changed and they it's not new I mean I think we started seeing you know people think we started seeing you know people think we started seeing you know people started talking about the term started talking about the term started talking about the term downsizing back in the early 90s and downsizing back in the early 90s and downsizing back in the early 90s and stuff yeah yeah well it's been stuff yeah yeah well it's been stuff yeah yeah well it's been normalized now I mean in big Tech it's normalized now I mean in big Tech it's normalized now I mean in big Tech it's like every month that Microsoft there's like every month that Microsoft there's like every month that Microsoft there's a layoff and you know if you're a a layoff and you know if you're a a layoff and you know if you're a manager of Microsoft and you have manager of Microsoft and you have manager of Microsoft and you have someone in underperformer in your team someone in underperformer in your team someone in underperformer in your team it's a lot easier to just put them on it's a lot easier to just put them on it's a lot easier to just put them on the layoff list than to actually invest the layoff list than to actually invest the layoff list than to actually invest in helping them get better and in helping them get better and in helping them get better and unfortunately it's been so normalized unfortunately it's been so normalized unfortunately it's been so normalized now and I'm not calling out Microsoft now and I'm not calling out Microsoft now and I'm not calling out Microsoft specifically but actually I am but uh it specifically but actually I am but uh it specifically but actually I am but uh it it's a it's a cross tech you know a it's a it's a cross tech you know a it's a it's a cross tech you know a cross tech it's like there's a now cross tech it's like there's a now cross tech it's like there's a now there's a normalized procedure to just there's a normalized procedure to just there's a normalized procedure to just get rid of employees rather than get rid of employees rather than get rid of employees rather than investing in them and helping them get investing in them and helping them get investing in them and helping them get be more effective which is unfortunate be more effective which is unfortunate be more effective which is unfortunate yeah you wonder when the service levels yeah you wonder when the service levels yeah you wonder when the service levels are going to drop and the support levels are going to drop and the support levels are going to drop and the support levels are going to continue ER Ro when you let are going to continue ER Ro when you let are going to continue ER Ro when you let go of people in those mass quantities I go of people in those mass quantities I go of people in those mass quantities I mean some what happens after that mean some what happens after that mean some what happens after that internally I mean well you you you Shar internally I mean well you you you Shar internally I mean well you you you Shar you you you shed right you shed the people transfer shed right you shed the people transfer shed right you shed the people transfer the workload and overload others right the workload and overload others right the workload and overload others right right exactly yeah and you lose company right exactly yeah and you lose company right exactly yeah and you lose company memory true yeah and you also Drive memory true yeah and you also Drive memory true yeah and you also Drive attrition because the folks that remain attrition because the folks that remain attrition because the folks that remain know that their jobs are not secure know that their jobs are not secure know that their jobs are not secure either so they're like always looking either so they're like always looking either so they're like always looking for a better gig at that point for a better gig at that point for a better gig at that point everyone's looking for a better gig and everyone's looking for a better gig and everyone's looking for a better gig and so of your attrition numbers up and yeah so of your attrition numbers up and yeah so of your attrition numbers up and yeah I mean it's uh it's a nice short-term I mean it's uh it's a nice short-term I mean it's uh it's a nice short-term bump in the stock you know for the CEO bump in the stock you know for the CEO bump in the stock you know for the CEO loose their pay but that's about it I

loose their pay but that's about it I loose their pay but that's about it I mean core core did another blood bath mean core core did another blood bath mean core core did another blood bath last Friday um dropped a lot of people last Friday um dropped a lot of people last Friday um dropped a lot of people in their their Services Group uh you in their their Services Group uh you in their their Services Group uh you know just you're just wondering I got it know just you're just wondering I got it know just you're just wondering I got it so as a public service announcement not so as a public service announcement not so as a public service announcement not only for Pete your brother but there are only for Pete your brother but there are only for Pete your brother but there are a lot of talented people on the street a lot of talented people on the street a lot of talented people on the street right now in our SP a lot of them oh right now in our SP a lot of them oh right now in our SP a lot of them oh yeah you know and if anybody's out there yeah you know and if anybody's out there yeah you know and if anybody's out there that is even thinking about bringing on that is even thinking about bringing on that is even thinking about bringing on some one of these talented people just some one of these talented people just some one of these talented people just reach out to any of us um there's we can reach out to any of us um there's we can reach out to any of us um there's we can connect you with them I mean we we had connect you with them I mean we we had connect you with them I mean we we had we got two of them new positions in the we got two of them new positions in the we got two of them new positions in the last week um because just you cannot let last week um because just you cannot let last week um because just you cannot let these people just sit there and try to these people just sit there and try to these people just sit there and try to figure out what they're going to do yeah figure out what they're going to do yeah figure out what they're going to do yeah I mean plug plug for Tom white you know I mean plug plug for Tom white you know I mean plug plug for Tom white you know yeah I've been watching his videos on yeah I've been watching his videos on yeah I've been watching his videos on Tik Tok his sales videos Tik Tok his sales videos Tik Tok his sales videos yeah he's getting after it you know the yeah he's getting after it you know the yeah he's getting after it you know the other part Pete about your brother's other part Pete about your brother's other part Pete about your brother's thing going viral is it's half of it is thing going viral is it's half of it is thing going viral is it's half of it is the layoff and how horrible it was done the layoff and how horrible it was done the layoff and how horrible it was done the other half is oh meanwhile record the other half is oh meanwhile record the other half is oh meanwhile record earnings you know record profits that earnings you know record profits that earnings you know record profits that kind of thing it's when you show both of kind of thing it's when you show both of kind of thing it's when you show both of those at the same time that's when those at the same time that's when those at the same time that's when people just get pissed yeah it's not people just get pissed yeah it's not people just get pissed yeah it's not like the company is collapsing and like the company is collapsing and like the company is collapsing and they're having to get rid of employees they're having to get rid of employees they're having to get rid of employees yeah Mary Bara is making like I don't yeah Mary Bara is making like I don't yeah Mary Bara is making like I don't know what did she it was like 6 million know what did she it was like 6 million know what did she it was like 6 million a year something like crazy numbers you a year something like crazy numbers you a year something like crazy numbers you know me just just from a human

know me just just from a human know me just just from a human perspective there's like a proper way to perspective there's like a proper way to perspective there's like a proper way to do things and I think if someone worked do things and I think if someone worked do things and I think if someone worked for your company for 39 years they for your company for 39 years they for your company for 39 years they shouldn't get an anonymous email yeah shouldn't get an anonymous email yeah shouldn't get an anonymous email yeah you know it's just not proper it's not you know it's just not proper it's not you know it's just not proper it's not even the fact that you can do that tells even the fact that you can do that tells even the fact that you can do that tells me that you're not really using your me that you're not really using your me that you're not really using your brain yeah definitely there's a lack of brain yeah definitely there's a lack of brain yeah definitely there's a lack of brain cells well I think what happens is brain cells well I think what happens is brain cells well I think what happens is they sort of listen to lawyers that say they sort of listen to lawyers that say they sort of listen to lawyers that say oh you're not supposed to say anything oh you're not supposed to say anything oh you're not supposed to say anything just like but I think that's baloney just like but I think that's baloney just like but I think that's baloney like there's there's definitely a more like there's there's definitely a more like there's there's definitely a more humane way to do it and you know there's humane way to do it and you know there's humane way to do it and you know there's a business decision which you could a business decision which you could a business decision which you could argue with but yeah the the the method argue with but yeah the the the method argue with but yeah the the the method needs to be more empathetic because at needs to be more empathetic because at needs to be more empathetic because at the end of the day it's humans that are the end of the day it's humans that are the end of the day it's humans that are involved and it's bad for your brand involved and it's bad for your brand involved and it's bad for your brand it's terrible for the GM brand to be out it's terrible for the GM brand to be out it's terrible for the GM brand to be out there and just be you know act like there and just be you know act like there and just be you know act like [ __ ] you know no he never spoke to [ __ ] you know no he never spoke to [ __ ] you know no he never spoke to anybody right he just received a message anybody right he just received a message anybody right he just received a message never spoke never spoke never spoke see I mean are we H again we go back to see I mean are we H again we go back to see I mean are we H again we go back to many of us that are older that have been many of us that are older that have been many of us that are older that have been doing this a while everybody's these doing this a while everybody's these doing this a while everybody's these people are hiding behind email and text people are hiding behind email and text people are hiding behind email and text messages they don't have guts to pick up messages they don't have guts to pick up messages they don't have guts to pick up a damn phone and tell them after 29 a damn phone and tell them after 29 a damn phone and tell them after 29 years he doesn't have a position anymore years he doesn't have a position anymore years he doesn't have a position anymore chat Bots they're just using chat Bots chat Bots they're just using chat Bots chat Bots they're just using chat Bots now you know um that's right leard when now you know um that's right leard when now you know um that's right leard when your new boss is agentic and agentic and whole talk about Humanity in the agentic whole talk about Humanity in the agentic whole talk about Humanity in the agentic BOS I don't know what Humanity means not BOS I don't know what Humanity means not BOS I don't know what Humanity means not compute trained off of YouTube videos I

compute trained off of YouTube videos I compute trained off of YouTube videos I mean Jesus Christ I mean one of the most mean Jesus Christ I mean one of the most mean Jesus Christ I mean one of the most ridiculous things that people are ridiculous things that people are ridiculous things that people are talking about is using pathetic data talking about is using pathetic data talking about is using pathetic data generated by llms to then you know Post generated by llms to then you know Post generated by llms to then you know Post train train train llms and M Mo it's like okay so take llms and M Mo it's like okay so take llms and M Mo it's like okay so take crap generate crap and then feed that crap generate crap and then feed that crap generate crap and then feed that crap into a community you know talk crap into a community you know talk crap into a community you know talk about logarithmic scaling how does that about logarithmic scaling how does that about logarithmic scaling how does that stuff stuff stuff scale it's just it's unbelievable and scale it's just it's unbelievable and scale it's just it's unbelievable and you know now you that we've officially you know now you that we've officially you know now you that we've officially made this pivot toward agentic it's like made this pivot toward agentic it's like made this pivot toward agentic it's like how can you have good agentic if you're how can you have good agentic if you're how can you have good agentic if you're founding your agent on technology that founding your agent on technology that founding your agent on technology that is is is experimental I I I I mean this is like experimental I I I I mean this is like experimental I I I I mean this is like the huge disconnect and what I've been the huge disconnect and what I've been the huge disconnect and what I've been trying to reconcile for two years now trying to reconcile for two years now trying to reconcile for two years now ever since Microsoft went and went you ever since Microsoft went and went you ever since Microsoft went and went you know premature with their Bing what is know premature with their Bing what is know premature with their Bing what is it what was it called Bing chat at the it what was it called Bing chat at the it what was it called Bing chat at the time right Bing chat yeah and then um time right Bing chat yeah and then um time right Bing chat yeah and then um and then Google Fast followed with their and then Google Fast followed with their and then Google Fast followed with their PR disaster just a couple of days later PR disaster just a couple of days later PR disaster just a couple of days later but we haven't really move that far but we haven't really move that far but we haven't really move that far these these mechanisms for uh getting to these these mechanisms for uh getting to these these mechanisms for uh getting to good AI or just getting more more good AI or just getting more more good AI or just getting more more expensive and multi-layered right expensive and multi-layered right expensive and multi-layered right because now they're talking about because now they're talking about because now they're talking about scaling time thinking time what kind of scaling time thinking time what kind of scaling time thinking time what kind of I mean serious people seriously you see

I mean serious people seriously you see I mean serious people seriously you see load letter huh I mean it's incredible load letter huh I mean it's incredible load letter huh I mean it's incredible think think think freaking don't just believe think these freaking don't just believe think these freaking don't just believe think these scaling laws are just becoming complete scaling laws are just becoming complete scaling laws are just becoming complete nonsense right and then you can see them nonsense right and then you can see them nonsense right and then you can see them now watering down some of the red around now watering down some of the red around now watering down some of the red around that as well and deflecting we didn't that as well and deflecting we didn't that as well and deflecting we didn't mean that for scaling we meant this and mean that for scaling we meant this and mean that for scaling we meant this and and now's using the term scaling laws one thing that I always say about laws one thing that I always say about you know this push into doing all this you know this push into doing all this you know this push into doing all this wacky AI stuff is it's really not about wacky AI stuff is it's really not about wacky AI stuff is it's really not about what they give it's about what they get what they give it's about what they get what they give it's about what they get right so yeah what they get is data and right so yeah what they get is data and right so yeah what they get is data and that's what they want so if they can that's what they want so if they can that's what they want so if they can convince you to use their product and if convince you to use their product and if convince you to use their product and if if it doesn't work it's your problem if it doesn't work it's your problem if it doesn't work it's your problem it's not their problem right yeah it's not their problem right yeah it's not their problem right yeah they're like okay you know you want to they're like okay you know you want to they're like okay you know you want to buy it you have fear missing out you buy it you have fear missing out you buy it you have fear missing out you want to be competitive you want to look want to be competitive you want to look want to be competitive you want to look cool you buy the thing if it doesn't cool you buy the thing if it doesn't cool you buy the thing if it doesn't work for you that's not their problem so work for you that's not their problem so work for you that's not their problem so the the issue with companies is that the the issue with companies is that the the issue with companies is that they need to be really clear on what they need to be really clear on what they need to be really clear on what their goals are and what they want to do their goals are and what they want to do their goals are and what they want to do and figure out how this fits if at all and figure out how this fits if at all and figure out how this fits if at all with what they're trying to do and so with what they're trying to do and so with what they're trying to do and so while that's happening you know nobody while that's happening you know nobody while that's happening you know nobody at Microsoft or Nvidia or Google like at Microsoft or Nvidia or Google like at Microsoft or Nvidia or Google like nobody's missing any meals over there uh nobody's missing any meals over there uh nobody's missing any meals over there uh based on what's happening but I think based on what's happening but I think based on what's happening but I think the pain will be felt by companies who the pain will be felt by companies who the pain will be felt by companies who maybe buy into the hype and don't

maybe buy into the hype and don't maybe buy into the hype and don't understand what they're getting and how understand what they're getting and how understand what they're getting and how much work and how hard it's going to be much work and how hard it's going to be much work and how hard it's going to be for them to be able to make some of the for them to be able to make some of the for them to be able to make some of the pixie D promises come true for pixie D promises come true for pixie D promises come true for them them them yeah it's interesting because it's a yeah it's interesting because it's a yeah it's interesting because it's a very similar pattern to the previous very similar pattern to the previous very similar pattern to the previous discussion where I mean if we're not discussion where I mean if we're not discussion where I mean if we're not capable of you know being courageous to capable of you know being courageous to capable of you know being courageous to properly fire people how do you expect properly fire people how do you expect properly fire people how do you expect people to be clear about what they do people to be clear about what they do people to be clear about what they do with their with their with their products the question is really how do products the question is really how do products the question is really how do we fix that because I mean you know I'm we fix that because I mean you know I'm we fix that because I mean you know I'm usually the controversial one here but I usually the controversial one here but I usually the controversial one here but I mean look at the reality Elon Musk you mean look at the reality Elon Musk you mean look at the reality Elon Musk you know F 80% of the people at X and see know F 80% of the people at X and see know F 80% of the people at X and see the importance he had in our political the importance he had in our political the importance he had in our political system right now so I would argue people system right now so I would argue people system right now so I would argue people don't don't don't care yeah people don't care yet enough care yeah people don't care yet enough care yeah people don't care yet enough that's the problem people don't care but that's the problem people don't care but that's the problem people don't care but you know that's the thing it's it you you know that's the thing it's it you you know that's the thing it's it you know um with these know um with these know um with these agents you you give people the excuse of agents you you give people the excuse of agents you you give people the excuse of not having to deal with their decisions not having to deal with their decisions not having to deal with their decisions right it's all like about yeah I'm not right it's all like about yeah I'm not right it's all like about yeah I'm not your thinking your responsibility your your thinking your responsibility your your thinking your responsibility your accountability it's accountability it's accountability it's like offload Universe right I don't like offload Universe right I don't like offload Universe right I don't think that to this level of maturity is think that to this level of maturity is think that to this level of maturity is just another tool for it because I mean just another tool for it because I mean just another tool for it because I mean at the end of the day the only at the end of the day the only at the end of the day the only measurement in this word is profit so measurement in this word is profit so measurement in this word is profit so just better to profit I don't think they just better to profit I don't think they just better to profit I don't think they think beyond that I call me pessimistic think beyond that I call me pessimistic think beyond that I call me pessimistic but I mean saying oh I'm going to use an but I mean saying oh I'm going to use an but I mean saying oh I'm going to use an AI so it doesn't recognize that me is AI so it doesn't recognize that me is AI so it doesn't recognize that me is making the decision this is very

making the decision this is very making the decision this is very sophisticated I don't think people do sophisticated I don't think people do sophisticated I don't think people do that is I'm going to do this AI because that is I'm going to do this AI because that is I'm going to do this AI because it reduces my cost and increases my it reduces my cost and increases my it reduces my cost and increases my Revenue as simple as that so we teaching Revenue as simple as that so we teaching Revenue as simple as that so we teaching NBA for decades guy I say that all the NBA for decades guy I say that all the NBA for decades guy I say that all the time but as always as always Demitri is right until we Chang that and we said right until we Chang that and we said yeah you can still do profit but he is yeah you can still do profit but he is yeah you can still do profit but he is the framework within which you have to the framework within which you have to the framework within which you have to do the profit and these other the do the profit and these other the do the profit and these other the regulation people are going to continue regulation people are going to continue regulation people are going to continue to go the fastest route to profit it's I to go the fastest route to profit it's I to go the fastest route to profit it's I know oh but there's the humanid side know oh but there's the humanid side know oh but there's the humanid side right I mean there there's also Humanity right I mean there there's also Humanity right I mean there there's also Humanity there's profit and Humanity no no I'm there's profit and Humanity no no I'm there's profit and Humanity no no I'm I'm saying but I agree but call me an I'm saying but I agree but call me an I'm saying but I agree but call me an NBA give me an NBA with a curriculum NBA give me an NBA with a curriculum NBA give me an NBA with a curriculum that said profit and Humanity that's that said profit and Humanity that's that said profit and Humanity that's what I'm saying people choose profit what I'm saying people choose profit what I'm saying people choose profit over it over it over it that's a that's a shareholder issue yeah that's a that's a shareholder issue yeah that's a that's a shareholder issue yeah we don't we don't teach it I me we don't we don't we don't teach it I me we don't we don't we don't teach it I me we don't teach it in schools we teach how to make teach it in schools we teach how to make teach it in schools we teach how to make we don't teach how to be we don't teach how to be we don't teach how to be human man you should write a white paper human man you should write a white paper human man you should write a white paper dude you should have a whole new podcast dude you should have a whole new podcast dude you should have a whole new podcast on that you know it's was like on a on that you know it's was like on a on that you know it's was like on a webcast with Joe Peterson and we were webcast with Joe Peterson and we were webcast with Joe Peterson and we were just talking about you know when do just talking about you know when do just talking about you know when do companies care about sustainability and companies care about sustainability and companies care about sustainability and Net Zero targets and it turns out when Net Zero targets and it turns out when Net Zero targets and it turns out when time are good and cash is going in and time are good and cash is going in and time are good and cash is going in and flush they talk a good game about it and flush they talk a good game about it and flush they talk a good game about it and everything but man when things get tight everything but man when things get tight everything but man when things get tight and the econom is going down those are and the econom is going down those are and the econom is going down those are the first people to get thrown off the the first people to get thrown off the the first people to get thrown off the boat right away it's like sustainability

boat right away it's like sustainability boat right away it's like sustainability that whole team you're out of here you that whole team you're out of here you that whole team you're out of here you know off the boat yeah yeah it's true know off the boat yeah yeah it's true know off the boat yeah yeah it's true it's it's so the humanity thing all it's it's so the humanity thing all it's it's so the humanity thing all these good things to help ourselves that these good things to help ourselves that these good things to help ourselves that that definitely falls into last place that definitely falls into last place that definitely falls into last place over cash every time also personal over cash every time also personal over cash every time also personal finances too like you look at you know finances too like you look at you know finances too like you look at you know don't want to get political but when don't want to get political but when don't want to get political but when people get into elections they vote with people get into elections they vote with people get into elections they vote with their pocketbook their personal pnl as their pocketbook their personal pnl as their pocketbook their personal pnl as well as corporate p&l and it's like you well as corporate p&l and it's like you well as corporate p&l and it's like you know almost like a matter of like their know almost like a matter of like their know almost like a matter of like their you know your personal survival and you know your personal survival and you know your personal survival and comfort tends to override other people's comfort tends to override other people's comfort tends to override other people's pain and that's you know maybe that's a pain and that's you know maybe that's a pain and that's you know maybe that's a flaw in our in our genetic code that flaw in our in our genetic code that flaw in our in our genetic code that should be fixed through AI genetic should be fixed through AI genetic should be fixed through AI genetic modification now that's a different modification now that's a different modification now that's a different topic but no but I think you're totally topic but no but I think you're totally topic but no but I think you're totally right it is because I think that the right it is because I think that the right it is because I think that the idea of humanity is a nice concept you idea of humanity is a nice concept you idea of humanity is a nice concept you discussed in the bar around the grass of discussed in the bar around the grass of discussed in the bar around the grass of wine but when you go back home and you wine but when you go back home and you wine but when you go back home and you atut your balance sheets is the survival atut your balance sheets is the survival atut your balance sheets is the survival the survival element that kicks in and the survival element that kicks in and the survival element that kicks in and in a society where everything is M you in a society where everything is M you in a society where everything is M you kick down to your survival mode it's a kick down to your survival mode it's a kick down to your survival mode it's a reptilian part of your brain yeah reptilian part of your brain yeah reptilian part of your brain yeah totally I agree with totally I agree with totally I agree with you when you're sitting there talking to you when you're sitting there talking to you when you're sitting there talking to your financial adviser and you're your financial adviser and you're your financial adviser and you're looking at your 401k and you're making looking at your 401k and you're making looking at your 401k and you're making decisions on what you're going to need decisions on what you're going to need decisions on what you're going to need to have to have to have for some reason sustainability and for some reason sustainability and for some reason sustainability and Humanity aren't part of that discussion Humanity aren't part of that discussion Humanity aren't part of that discussion oh oh you have a weir 41q advisor man no oh oh you have a weir 41q advisor man no oh oh you have a weir 41q advisor man no no but it's like Pete says you know this no but it's like Pete says you know this no but it's like Pete says you know this DNA and we have a particular Gene Pete

DNA and we have a particular Gene Pete DNA and we have a particular Gene Pete would we call this Jean the IR ran would we call this Jean the IR ran would we call this Jean the IR ran Jean maybe what Jean maybe what Jean maybe what Iran no I on Rob Rob you're an Iran no I on Rob Rob you're an Iran no I on Rob Rob you're an architectural guy I don't think it's a architectural guy I don't think it's a architectural guy I don't think it's a gene I think it's in the architecture of gene I think it's in the architecture of gene I think it's in the architecture of the brain the core of the brain there the brain the core of the brain there the brain the core of the brain there the defensive system survival system and the defensive system survival system and the defensive system survival system and then you have the higher part on Top then you have the higher part on Top then you have the higher part on Top which is more the thinking artistic you which is more the thinking artistic you which is more the thinking artistic you know you might [ __ ] so I think it's know you might [ __ ] so I think it's know you might [ __ ] so I think it's an architectural problem not a gene an architectural problem not a gene an architectural problem not a gene problem but all right just trying to say problem but all right just trying to say problem but all right just trying to say something funny me too it it didn't something funny me too it it didn't something funny me too it it didn't land you know you're too esoteric I'm land you know you're too esoteric I'm land you know you're too esoteric I'm too esoteric no one ever read those too esoteric no one ever read those too esoteric no one ever read those books like Atlas Shrugged or anything books like Atlas Shrugged or anything books like Atlas Shrugged or anything like that you like that you like that you know yeah any know yeah any know yeah any yeah yeah yeah yes you know there's an ancient Vulcan yes you know there's an ancient Vulcan yes you know there's an ancient Vulcan proverb uh written from text from Bill proverb uh written from text from Bill proverb uh written from text from Bill Clinton where it says it's the Eon it's Clinton where it says it's the Eon it's Clinton where it says it's the Eon it's the economy the economy the economy stupid yeah it's the economy stupid stupid yeah it's the economy stupid stupid yeah it's the economy stupid everything else it doesn't matter everything else it doesn't matter everything else it doesn't matter exactly it's and now it it has nothing exactly it's and now it it has nothing exactly it's and now it it has nothing to do with numbers it has everything to to do with numbers it has everything to to do with numbers it has everything to do with do with do with feeling yeah totally I'm like the same feeling yeah totally I'm like the same feeling yeah totally I'm like the same people were talking about the economy people were talking about the economy people were talking about the economy those are the same people who uh you those are the same people who uh you those are the same people who uh you know I don't know if you all saw know I don't know if you all saw know I don't know if you all saw recently there was a um a DB has struck recently there was a um a DB has struck recently there was a um a DB has struck down this thing about people salary down this thing about people salary down this thing about people salary employees if you work you know a certain employees if you work you know a certain employees if you work you know a certain amount of hours that you would be

amount of hours that you would be amount of hours that you would be eligible for overtime because a lot of eligible for overtime because a lot of eligible for overtime because a lot of companies they just put people on salary companies they just put people on salary companies they just put people on salary just so they can like work them like go just so they can like work them like go just so they can like work them like go ungodly hours right so they after a ungodly hours right so they after a ungodly hours right so they after a certain period of time of the hours you certain period of time of the hours you certain period of time of the hours you put in that you would be eligible for put in that you would be eligible for put in that you would be eligible for overtime and so that got struck down or overtime and so that got struck down or overtime and so that got struck down or it was supposed to go into effect in it was supposed to go into effect in it was supposed to go into effect in January now it's on pause and that January now it's on pause and that January now it's on pause and that probably will never like happen but you probably will never like happen but you probably will never like happen but you know that's that is what you need to be know that's that is what you need to be know that's that is what you need to be looking at you know like so your looking at you know like so your looking at you know like so your employer can work you to death basically employer can work you to death basically employer can work you to death basically and make you probably making minimum and make you probably making minimum and make you probably making minimum wage after you calculate all the hours wage after you calculate all the hours wage after you calculate all the hours that you're spending right oh yeah that you're spending right oh yeah that you're spending right oh yeah looking at those things in the looking at those things in the looking at those things in the background background background that's that's my Consulting uh almost that's that's my Consulting uh almost that's that's my Consulting uh almost everyone's Consulting career right you everyone's Consulting career right you everyone's Consulting career right you know they hear ghosting know they hear ghosting know they hear ghosting hours you hours you hours you know it's not as rare of a practice as know it's not as rare of a practice as know it's not as rare of a practice as people think that's like um you people think that's like um you people think that's like um you know you know I mean like w and and you're right Debbie that deal w and and you're right Debbie that deal is about to go through and then the is about to go through and then the is about to go through and then the lobbyist in Washington said whoa whoa lobbyist in Washington said whoa whoa lobbyist in Washington said whoa whoa whoa we can't do that that's going to whoa we can't do that that's going to whoa we can't do that that's going to hit our bottom line let's pause I need hit our bottom line let's pause I need hit our bottom line let's pause I need to have I need to have two private jets to have I need to have two private jets to have I need to have two private jets not just one so we don't want you to not just one so we don't want you to not just one so we don't want you to have overtime for you know the 100 hours

have overtime for you know the 100 hours have overtime for you know the 100 hours a week you put in that you're only a week you put in that you're only a week you put in that you're only getting paid for 40 basically yeah right getting paid for 40 basically yeah right getting paid for 40 basically yeah right right wow so let's talk about something right wow so let's talk about something right wow so let's talk about something serious it's related to Tech but it's serious it's related to Tech but it's serious it's related to Tech but it's also geopolitical and all that kind of also geopolitical and all that kind of also geopolitical and all that kind of stuff stuff stuff how about bioptic cables along the seaf how about bioptic cables along the seaf how about bioptic cables along the seaf Flor being cut between NATO countries I Flor being cut between NATO countries I Flor being cut between NATO countries I know this is T related isn't it it is know this is T related isn't it it is know this is T related isn't it it is totally gonna happen they're not gonna totally gonna happen they're not gonna totally gonna happen they're not gonna do that they do that they do that they already it's probably it's probably more already it's probably it's probably more already it's probably it's probably more war related but yeah there's a to it but war related but yeah there's a to it but war related but yeah there's a to it but it's but it's a but it's a tech topic it's but it's a but it's a tech topic it's but it's a but it's a tech topic it's because we've evolved over you know it's because we've evolved over you know it's because we've evolved over you know our technology and so how do we our technology and so how do we our technology and so how do we communicate over the internet and so you communicate over the internet and so you communicate over the internet and so you know we have strung Fiber Optic Cables know we have strung Fiber Optic Cables know we have strung Fiber Optic Cables all over the whole planet under the all over the whole planet under the all over the whole planet under the oceans and there is nobody watching oceans and there is nobody watching oceans and there is nobody watching those cables there's too many it's just those cables there's too many it's just those cables there's too many it's just too much there's too far you can't too much there's too far you can't too much there's too far you can't monitor all of them and so it's not hard monitor all of them and so it's not hard monitor all of them and so it's not hard for someone to go down there and just for someone to go down there and just for someone to go down there and just snip those cables and start cutting snip those cables and start cutting snip those cables and start cutting critical Communications right yeah this critical Communications right yeah this critical Communications right yeah this is the thing yeah be we need to be in is the thing yeah be we need to be in is the thing yeah be we need to be in the conduit business for the ocean floor the conduit business for the ocean floor the conduit business for the ocean floor instead of Gobles down yeah yeah it was instead of Gobles down yeah yeah it was instead of Gobles down yeah yeah it was between Finland and I think Germany between Finland and I think Germany between Finland and I think Germany right was it Germany Finland and yeah right was it Germany Finland and yeah right was it Germany Finland and yeah yeah yeah they B yeah they basically yeah yeah they B yeah they basically yeah yeah they B yeah they basically dropped the anchor and just just drag dropped the anchor and just just drag dropped the anchor and just just drag the anchor along the bottom of the ocean the anchor along the bottom of the ocean the anchor along the bottom of the ocean floor and then just kind of snapped a floor and then just kind of snapped a floor and then just kind of snapped a bunch of cables along the way and oh wow

bunch of cables along the way and oh wow bunch of cables along the way and oh wow yeah not yeah not yeah not cool no no that's not good I mean not cool no no that's not good I mean not cool no no that's not good I mean not cool I don't know it's like you know cool I don't know it's like you know cool I don't know it's like you know we're we have a global economy so much we're we have a global economy so much we're we have a global economy so much of what we do is connected and even of what we do is connected and even of what we do is connected and even though we're talking about Finland and though we're talking about Finland and though we're talking about Finland and Germany you know that's going to have an Germany you know that's going to have an Germany you know that's going to have an impact on us some way somehow so not not impact on us some way somehow so not not impact on us some way somehow so not not to think about those things is a problem to think about those things is a problem to think about those things is a problem and so I guess I'm concerned about the and so I guess I'm concerned about the and so I guess I'm concerned about the fact people are you know obviously fact people are you know obviously fact people are you know obviously people are think about their lives and people are think about their lives and people are think about their lives and what they do but they don't really what they do but they don't really what they do but they don't really understand the greater impact all these understand the greater impact all these understand the greater impact all these other things that are happening globally other things that are happening globally other things that are happening globally that will impact them right yeah that will impact them right yeah that will impact them right yeah the halo effect of things like that you the halo effect of things like that you the halo effect of things like that you know yeah I remember when know yeah I remember when know yeah I remember when when I remember when when brexit was when I remember when when brexit was when I remember when when brexit was happening um you know a lot of people happening um you know a lot of people happening um you know a lot of people that I knew were like yeah let's get rid that I knew were like yeah let's get rid that I knew were like yeah let's get rid of all the immigrants and then and then of all the immigrants and then and then of all the immigrants and then and then when bref happen oh shoot I lost 30% of when bref happen oh shoot I lost 30% of when bref happen oh shoot I lost 30% of my house my house my house value yeah right so they didn't really value yeah right so they didn't really value yeah right so they didn't really they didn't understand a connection they didn't understand a connection they didn't understand a connection between what they were doing so I think between what they were doing so I think between what they were doing so I think that's my concern a l is that you know that's my concern a l is that you know that's my concern a l is that you know we are a connected world and so try to we are a connected world and so try to we are a connected world and so try to pretend like things that happen pretend like things that happen pretend like things that happen somewhere else won't have an impact on somewhere else won't have an impact on somewhere else won't have an impact on us it's just not the truth yeah that's us it's just not the truth yeah that's us it's just not the truth yeah that's true there was a CH this was a Chinese true there was a CH this was a Chinese true there was a CH this was a Chinese vessel that uh now they're saying well vessel that uh now they're saying well vessel that uh now they're saying well was it an accident or was it on purpose was it an accident or was it on purpose was it an accident or was it on purpose you know accident accidentally dropped

you know accident accidentally dropped you know accident accidentally dropped anchor and dragged it for like 100 miles anchor and dragged it for like 100 miles anchor and dragged it for like 100 miles you know yeah technology what did you expect I mean technology what did you expect I mean sorry yeah you know yeah a Chinese boat sorry yeah you know yeah a Chinese boat sorry yeah you know yeah a Chinese boat cruising through the baltics with a cruising through the baltics with a cruising through the baltics with a Russian Russian Russian Captain Captain Captain nice total coincidence and really Co nice total coincidence and really Co nice total coincidence and really Co nothing to worry about it's it can only nothing to worry about it's it can only nothing to worry about it's it can only be an accident like come yeah and we we be an accident like come yeah and we we be an accident like come yeah and we we didn't notice that we were dragging an didn't notice that we were dragging an didn't notice that we were dragging an anchor for 100 anchor for 100 anchor for 100 miles just a little rumbling noise but miles just a little rumbling noise but miles just a little rumbling noise but what's that noise like with your parking what's that noise like with your parking what's that noise like with your parking you you you know why are we only going two know why are we only going two know why are we only going two knots right right yeah this is stuff to knots right right yeah this is stuff to knots right right yeah this is stuff to think about you know we we've seen so think about you know we we've seen so think about you know we we've seen so many things you know Tech plays a role many things you know Tech plays a role many things you know Tech plays a role in geopolitics and warfare and in geopolitics and warfare and in geopolitics and warfare and everything and we're watching it happen everything and we're watching it happen everything and we're watching it happen live right now all over the world uh live right now all over the world uh live right now all over the world uh because there's a lot going on and so because there's a lot going on and so because there's a lot going on and so question sorry I'm sorry I don't want to question sorry I'm sorry I don't want to question sorry I'm sorry I don't want to answer oh please jump in uh so I have I answer oh please jump in uh so I have I answer oh please jump in uh so I have I want to you all thought about this so want to you all thought about this so want to you all thought about this so the EU as I'm sure you guys are aware the EU as I'm sure you guys are aware the EU as I'm sure you guys are aware they have created a new regulation they have created a new regulation they have created a new regulation around labeling of iot devices I think around labeling of iot devices I think around labeling of iot devices I think they call it yeah devices with digital they call it yeah devices with digital they call it yeah devices with digital elements you know they're so precious elements you know they're so precious elements you know they're so precious about the way they say things um about the way they say things um about the way they say things um basically iot and so a lot of those basically iot and so a lot of those basically iot and so a lot of those requirements because in us we don't

requirements because in us we don't requirements because in us we don't really have kind of laws and regulations really have kind of laws and regulations really have kind of laws and regulations around iot what impact do you think that around iot what impact do you think that around iot what impact do you think that will have on the US like like for will have on the US like like for will have on the US like like for example maybe us companies developing I example maybe us companies developing I example maybe us companies developing I products and putting them into Europe or products and putting them into Europe or products and putting them into Europe or other markets you think that would have other markets you think that would have other markets you think that would have like an impact on how they do those like an impact on how they do those like an impact on how they do those products right now it's like very wild products right now it's like very wild products right now it's like very wild west in the west in the west in the US yeah it's going to make it'll US yeah it's going to make it'll US yeah it's going to make it'll definitely have the impact of pairing definitely have the impact of pairing definitely have the impact of pairing down the number you know the device down the number you know the device down the number you know the device population out there right in terms of population out there right in terms of population out there right in terms of um who can sell into the US market and um who can sell into the US market and um who can sell into the US market and then it there's going to be um a cost then it there's going to be um a cost then it there's going to be um a cost Factor right so it's like you know back Factor right so it's like you know back Factor right so it's like you know back in the day when you had like uh those um in the day when you had like uh those um in the day when you had like uh those um uh migrant workers sitting in front of uh migrant workers sitting in front of uh migrant workers sitting in front of the uh Home Depot you know you can pick the uh Home Depot you know you can pick the uh Home Depot you know you can pick them up and you know get stuff done for them up and you know get stuff done for them up and you know get stuff done for for whatever five bucks an hour you know for whatever five bucks an hour you know for whatever five bucks an hour you know 20 bucks they'll work all day and you 20 bucks they'll work all day and you 20 bucks they'll work all day and you know and then next thing they're gone know and then next thing they're gone know and then next thing they're gone and all of a sudden you have to pay like and all of a sudden you have to pay like and all of a sudden you have to pay like $150 for an hour of time and support you $150 for an hour of time and support you $150 for an hour of time and support you know and all of a sudden everything gets know and all of a sudden everything gets know and all of a sudden everything gets more expensive and uh yeah and then like more expensive and uh yeah and then like more expensive and uh yeah and then like you were saying the blast radius of that you were saying the blast radius of that you were saying the blast radius of that uh Downstream can be pretty significant uh Downstream can be pretty significant uh Downstream can be pretty significant right but you know we we live we live right but you know we we live we live right but you know we we live we live with the convenience and um and a lot of with the convenience and um and a lot of with the convenience and um and a lot of the Chinese vendors actually are the the Chinese vendors actually are the the Chinese vendors actually are the largest iot device um providers around

largest iot device um providers around largest iot device um providers around the world right and they have a the world right and they have a the world right and they have a competitive in terms of pricing and cost competitive in terms of pricing and cost competitive in terms of pricing and cost and so when you take that out what how and so when you take that out what how and so when you take that out what how you know and you bring domestically you know and you bring domestically you know and you bring domestically what's the impact I mean is it's not what's the impact I mean is it's not what's the impact I mean is it's not rocket science right so the answer to rocket science right so the answer to rocket science right so the answer to Debbie's question it impacts China more Debbie's question it impacts China more Debbie's question it impacts China more than anybody else because they're the than anybody else because they're the than anybody else because they're the primary oems of these devices right and primary oems of these devices right and primary oems of these devices right and they're you know they're the ones who they're you know they're the ones who they're you know they're the ones who are going to have to play ball if they are going to have to play ball if they are going to have to play ball if they want to be in the EU I want to be in the EU I want to be in the EU I guess I would throw Taiwan in there a guess I would throw Taiwan in there a guess I would throw Taiwan in there a little bit too yeah the the practicality little bit too yeah the the practicality little bit too yeah the the practicality of the certification is going to be of the certification is going to be of the certification is going to be complicated because if you really want complicated because if you really want complicated because if you really want to do it to do it to do it right how how do you make sure there's a right how how do you make sure there's a right how how do you make sure there's a cyber security safety label coming out cyber security safety label coming out cyber security safety label coming out of the you know Factory in China if you of the you know Factory in China if you of the you know Factory in China if you cannot send people to inspect every cannot send people to inspect every cannot send people to inspect every single step of the pro get access to all single step of the pro get access to all single step of the pro get access to all the sources code of the generation thing the sources code of the generation thing the sources code of the generation thing yeah good idea good luck yeah and it's yeah good idea good luck yeah and it's yeah good idea good luck yeah and it's all commodity right you're you're all commodity right you're you're all commodity right you're you're basically dealing with race race to the basically dealing with race race to the basically dealing with race race to the bottom type of stuff bottom type of stuff bottom type of stuff enforce that regulation is going to be enforce that regulation is going to be enforce that regulation is going to be much more difficult than um you know much more difficult than um you know much more difficult than um you know gpus you know Advanced AI um chips and gpus you know Advanced AI um chips and gpus you know Advanced AI um chips and systems being um you know sold into systems being um you know sold into systems being um you know sold into China and look how well that's gone China and look how well that's gone China and look how well that's gone hasn't gone well at all so it just hasn't gone well at all so it just hasn't gone well at all so it just raises prices um and I don't know it's raises prices um and I don't know it's raises prices um and I don't know it's just an import unfortunate thing but um just an import unfortunate thing but um just an import unfortunate thing but um enforcement is not going to be scalable

enforcement is not going to be scalable enforcement is not going to be scalable just because you're not dealing with just because you're not dealing with just because you're not dealing with high value stuff yeah but we have we high value stuff yeah but we have we high value stuff yeah but we have we have to we have to set some kind of have to we have to set some kind of have to we have to set some kind of structure around it because if we don't structure around it because if we don't structure around it because if we don't identify that so many I mean I've talked identify that so many I mean I've talked identify that so many I mean I've talked to enough CFOs because I I've show that to enough CFOs because I I've show that to enough CFOs because I I've show that SOS ID uh identity management security SOS ID uh identity management security SOS ID uh identity management security software that's now being getting software that's now being getting software that's now being getting tractioned with a lot of CFOs and a lot tractioned with a lot of CFOs and a lot tractioned with a lot of CFOs and a lot of cesos uh in the iot space because of cesos uh in the iot space because of cesos uh in the iot space because they are now becoming financially and they are now becoming financially and they are now becoming financially and you know from a legal standpoint you know from a legal standpoint you know from a legal standpoint responsible for violations and anything responsible for violations and anything responsible for violations and anything that comes out that's you know that's that comes out that's you know that's that comes out that's you know that's been broken or hacked or anything else been broken or hacked or anything else been broken or hacked or anything else and so if you don't understand what you and so if you don't understand what you and so if you don't understand what you have in your network you're in trouble have in your network you're in trouble have in your network you're in trouble you you better understand that and we you you better understand that and we you you better understand that and we get into the supply chain stuff I mean get into the supply chain stuff I mean get into the supply chain stuff I mean we're going to need to have endtoend we're going to need to have endtoend we're going to need to have endtoend understanding as to what products are understanding as to what products are understanding as to what products are out there what firm firmware versions out there what firm firmware versions out there what firm firmware versions running all that well you know then running all that well you know then running all that well you know then there's the those are that creates an there's the those are that creates an there's the those are that creates an opportunity for auditing and trans you opportunity for auditing and trans you opportunity for auditing and trans you know know know and tools to audit your infrastructure and tools to audit your infrastructure and tools to audit your infrastructure to make sure your devices are compant to make sure your devices are compant to make sure your devices are compant and all this stuff you know it's it all and all this stuff you know it's it all and all this stuff you know it's it all starts with at least I mean to Debbie's starts with at least I mean to Debbie's starts with at least I mean to Debbie's Point like they they set the regulations Point like they they set the regulations Point like they they set the regulations they say here's the behavior that you they say here's the behavior that you they say here's the behavior that you need to you know abide by for for trust need to you know abide by for for trust need to you know abide by for for trust and transparency now the question is how and transparency now the question is how and transparency now the question is how do you enforce it well yeah there's do you enforce it well yeah there's do you enforce it well yeah there's probably a combination of factors but probably a combination of factors but probably a combination of factors but I'd love to see more tools to sort of I'd love to see more tools to sort of I'd love to see more tools to sort of Monitor and audit systems for for Monitor and audit systems for for Monitor and audit systems for for compliance safety security transparency

compliance safety security transparency compliance safety security transparency and things like that we don't really and things like that we don't really and things like that we don't really have that have that have that the other thing that does doesn't look the other thing that does doesn't look the other thing that does doesn't look very Visionary to me is like okay you very Visionary to me is like okay you very Visionary to me is like okay you want to put your stamp like on the food want to put your stamp like on the food want to put your stamp like on the food s because I give you an example this is s because I give you an example this is s because I give you an example this is actually totally conflicting with your actually totally conflicting with your actually totally conflicting with your position against the right to repair and position against the right to repair and position against the right to repair and you remember all these Buzz they've been you remember all these Buzz they've been you remember all these Buzz they've been doing because Apple was signing some of doing because Apple was signing some of doing because Apple was signing some of the components into their devices and the components into their devices and the components into their devices and everybody was saying oh signing everybody was saying oh signing everybody was saying oh signing components so it's more expensive to components so it's more expensive to components so it's more expensive to repair and my position is no apple is repair and my position is no apple is repair and my position is no apple is signing those components so that the signing those components so that the signing those components so that the components are guaranteed to work components are guaranteed to work components are guaranteed to work together from the vendors so I mean yeah together from the vendors so I mean yeah together from the vendors so I mean yeah good idea but it seems very superficial good idea but it seems very superficial good idea but it seems very superficial to me yeah you know Debbie it's like to me yeah you know Debbie it's like to me yeah you know Debbie it's like what we've seen with the AI uh what we've seen with the AI uh what we've seen with the AI uh regulation right the EU AI regulation regulation right the EU AI regulation regulation right the EU AI regulation where they' they're trying to take more where they' they're trying to take more where they' they're trying to take more of a risk based approach I they have to of a risk based approach I they have to of a risk based approach I they have to really do that with iot stuff as well really do that with iot stuff as well really do that with iot stuff as well right because it doesn't make sense to right because it doesn't make sense to right because it doesn't make sense to um you know put stringent regulation on um you know put stringent regulation on um you know put stringent regulation on certain classes devices you have to look certain classes devices you have to look certain classes devices you have to look at things from a system at a system at things from a system at a system at things from a system at a system level so I mean you know just look at level so I mean you know just look at level so I mean you know just look at what Germany's uh doing I think it's what Germany's uh doing I think it's what Germany's uh doing I think it's like Deutsche Telecom one of the things like Deutsche Telecom one of the things like Deutsche Telecom one of the things that they're doing is leveraging a that they're doing is leveraging a that they're doing is leveraging a service management orchestration layer service management orchestration layer service management orchestration layer to enable them to actually continue to to enable them to actually continue to to enable them to actually continue to use Huawei radios while eliminating any use Huawei radios while eliminating any use Huawei radios while eliminating any poent particular vulnerability and uh poent particular vulnerability and uh poent particular vulnerability and uh security threat um points within the security threat um points within the security threat um points within the overall ran architecture

overall ran architecture overall ran architecture right so it's like hey let's not um you right so it's like hey let's not um you right so it's like hey let's not um you know uh incur billions of dollars know uh incur billions of dollars know uh incur billions of dollars ripping and replacing Huawei radios ripping and replacing Huawei radios ripping and replacing Huawei radios let's figure out a technical way to let's figure out a technical way to let's figure out a technical way to eliminate the risk and problem right and eliminate the risk and problem right and eliminate the risk and problem right and I think when you look at the whole I think when you look at the whole I think when you look at the whole portfolio massive massive diverse portfolio massive massive diverse portfolio massive massive diverse portfolio of iot um devices and the portfolio of iot um devices and the portfolio of iot um devices and the solutions that they enable you have to solutions that they enable you have to solutions that they enable you have to go through you should go through that go through you should go through that go through you should go through that entire exercise otherwise you choke entire exercise otherwise you choke entire exercise otherwise you choke everything off at the bottom and I don't everything off at the bottom and I don't everything off at the bottom and I don't know it it it's a great question you're know it it it's a great question you're know it it it's a great question you're bringing up and you know I think I think bringing up and you know I think I think bringing up and you know I think I think you're right you hit on the on the you're right you hit on the on the you're right you hit on the on the exactly the right PA Leon it should be exactly the right PA Leon it should be exactly the right PA Leon it should be the system level it cannot be trusted at the system level it cannot be trusted at the system level it cannot be trusted at the individual elements it's I mean it's the individual elements it's I mean it's the individual elements it's I mean it's like it should be zero trust it's it's like it should be zero trust it's it's like it should be zero trust it's it's the the the framework it should be well how do you framework it should be well how do you framework it should be well how do you implement that right Z everyone loves to implement that right Z everyone loves to implement that right Z everyone loves to talk about zero trust but even with zero talk about zero trust but even with zero talk about zero trust but even with zero trust it's it's just a a philosophy and trust it's it's just a a philosophy and trust it's it's just a a philosophy and principle right you have to figure out principle right you have to figure out principle right you have to figure out how specifically you instill that in any how specifically you instill that in any how specifically you instill that in any kind of system or deployment or kind of system or deployment or kind of system or deployment or infrastructure it's not just as easy as infrastructure it's not just as easy as infrastructure it's not just as easy as saying hey we have a I guess what we are what we are saying a I guess what we are what we are saying here that the Silver Bullet of buying a here that the Silver Bullet of buying a here that the Silver Bullet of buying a devices that has a stamp saying cyber devices that has a stamp saying cyber devices that has a stamp saying cyber secure is Just an Illusion it's just

it can help companies out there 10 it can help companies out there 10 different vendors saying that they're different vendors saying that they're different vendors saying that they're zero trust in their own model right so zero trust in their own model right so zero trust in their own model right so you don't so you buy one and you use you don't so you buy one and you use you don't so you buy one and you use another and it doesn't it's not another and it doesn't it's not another and it doesn't it's not compatible like okay really how's that compatible like okay really how's that compatible like okay really how's that and you know the other thing too and and you know the other thing too and and you know the other thing too and Debbie has talked about it in the in her Debbie has talked about it in the in her Debbie has talked about it in the in her committee meetings I mean you and Benson committee meetings I mean you and Benson committee meetings I mean you and Benson and I have talked about it before we and I have talked about it before we and I have talked about it before we have an executive order that's that's have an executive order that's that's have an executive order that's that's what we're what we're what we're no now there's that one ciso I've talked no now there's that one ciso I've talked no now there's that one ciso I've talked about that gives a [ __ ] about the about that gives a [ __ ] about the about that gives a [ __ ] about the executive order so until it becomes executive order so until it becomes executive order so until it becomes something that has to be followed by a something that has to be followed by a something that has to be followed by a Regulatory Commission and who the hell Regulatory Commission and who the hell Regulatory Commission and who the hell that is no one that is no one that is no one cares yeah who teaches the importance of cares yeah who teaches the importance of cares yeah who teaches the importance of executive orders in executive orders in executive orders in NBAs back to the same question I mean NBAs back to the same question I mean NBAs back to the same question I mean right right and that's the problem with right right and that's the problem with right right and that's the problem with executive orders because they can be executive orders because they can be executive orders because they can be resined and they have been and I think resined and they have been and I think resined and they have been and I think we're probably in the in in the future we're probably in the in in the future we're probably in the in in the future there will be some retion of some there will be some retion of some there will be some retion of some executive orders executive orders executive orders but you know you know I don't think a but you know you know I don't think a but you know you know I don't think a regulation is a silver bullet I think regulation is a silver bullet I think regulation is a silver bullet I think it's a part of things but at some point it's a part of things but at some point it's a part of things but at some point it is gonna create a problem where it is gonna create a problem where it is gonna create a problem where people aren't going to want to buy people aren't going to want to buy people aren't going to want to buy certain devices if they feel like they certain devices if they feel like they certain devices if they feel like they don't trust it so me there's an don't trust it so me there's an don't trust it so me there's an economic imperative here to get it right economic imperative here to get it right economic imperative here to get it right right or you're going to go out of right or you're going to go out of right or you're going to go out of business you're not going to be able to business you're not going to be able to business you're not going to be able to fill your product yeah I mean you know I fill your product yeah I mean you know I fill your product yeah I mean you know I talked to a Chinese module manufacturer

talked to a Chinese module manufacturer talked to a Chinese module manufacturer in the 5G world and they're using in the 5G world and they're using in the 5G world and they're using Qualcomm chipsets I said okay well how Qualcomm chipsets I said okay well how Qualcomm chipsets I said okay well how can I get the latest firmware that you can I get the latest firmware that you can I get the latest firmware that you have in your modules well you can't well have in your modules well you can't well have in your modules well you can't well what do you mean you can't I'm buying what do you mean you can't I'm buying what do you mean you can't I'm buying your freaking modules what are you your freaking modules what are you your freaking modules what are you talking about oh no no we no that's our talking about oh no no we no that's our talking about oh no no we no that's our that's our responsibility we're not that's our responsibility we're not that's our responsibility we're not going to tell you about it like so qu going to tell you about it like so qu going to tell you about it like so qu ches the firmware in their chipset ches the firmware in their chipset ches the firmware in their chipset you're not telling me so I can upgrade you're not telling me so I can upgrade you're not telling me so I can upgrade it in my iot device are you talking about the CRA the device are you talking about the CRA the Cyber resilience act or this is Cyber resilience act or this is Cyber resilience act or this is something different okay European laws something different okay European laws something different okay European laws in in iot coffee talk that's nice yes in in iot coffee talk that's nice yes in in iot coffee talk that's nice yes yes so tell us we don't have any so we yes so tell us we don't have any so we yes so tell us we don't have any so we might as well talk about might as well talk about might as well talk about yours yeah you know you know the Latin yours yeah you know you know the Latin yours yeah you know you know the Latin word for regulation is what word for regulation is what word for regulation is what [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] Europe that's uh that's interesting I Europe that's uh that's interesting I Europe that's uh that's interesting I mean it's interesting that it uh that mean it's interesting that it uh that mean it's interesting that it uh that you're that you're not saying let's you're that you're not saying let's you're that you're not saying let's let's uh forget about this Rob oh man no but but it's interesting Rob oh man no but but it's interesting to give this right all to give this right all to give this right all week yeah because you got no power where week yeah because you got no power where week yeah because you got no power where you live that's perfect tip your waiters you live that's perfect tip your waiters you live that's perfect tip your waiters and and and waitresses no waitresses no waitresses no tax but remember but remember 200 tax but remember but remember 200 tax but remember but remember 200 episodes ago that we were complaining episodes ago that we were complaining episodes ago that we were complaining about these bugs on Source um projects about these bugs on Source um projects about these bugs on Source um projects right that I don't remember the log four right that I don't remember the log four right that I don't remember the log four something or log 4J Lo 4J yeah yeah

something or log 4J Lo 4J yeah yeah something or log 4J Lo 4J yeah yeah right yeah so so for example the know right yeah so so for example the know right yeah so so for example the know the C will forc to have a uh s bomb so the C will forc to have a uh s bomb so the C will forc to have a uh s bomb so software build of materials so I mean software build of materials so I mean software build of materials so I mean this will uh be super interesting to this will uh be super interesting to this will uh be super interesting to learn okay what's the software running learn okay what's the software running learn okay what's the software running on my device so I can understand what on my device so I can understand what on my device so I can understand what type of threads I'm I'm no I can have type of threads I'm I'm no I can have type of threads I'm I'm no I can have because I there there will be okay you because I there there will be okay you because I there there will be okay you are running the log for uh z uh version are running the log for uh z uh version are running the log for uh z uh version 3.1 so you can check okay maybe it's a 3.1 so you can check okay maybe it's a 3.1 so you can check okay maybe it's a good idea to have someone maintain in good idea to have someone maintain in good idea to have someone maintain in this library or maybe not but on the this library or maybe not but on the this library or maybe not but on the other hand you manufacturers will need other hand you manufacturers will need other hand you manufacturers will need to have the mechanism to update uh to have the mechanism to update uh to have the mechanism to update uh devices uh uh allow to change operating devices uh uh allow to change operating devices uh uh allow to change operating systems and so on that's that's a big um systems and so on that's that's a big um systems and so on that's that's a big um a big clip so I think it's interesting a big clip so I think it's interesting a big clip so I think it's interesting of course it's complex and it will add a of course it's complex and it will add a of course it's complex and it will add a lot of complexity to product lot of complexity to product lot of complexity to product manufacturers but I think it gives a lot manufacturers but I think it gives a lot manufacturers but I think it gives a lot of information to yes and on this and on of information to yes and on this and on of information to yes and on this and on the other side I do believe that these the other side I do believe that these the other side I do believe that these kind of regulations are are valuable kind of regulations are are valuable kind of regulations are are valuable because at the end of the day if you because at the end of the day if you because at the end of the day if you have have have transparency traceability and transparency traceability and transparency traceability and attribution a lot of the problem we have attribution a lot of the problem we have attribution a lot of the problem we have in the Cyber war will be resolved so the in the Cyber war will be resolved so the in the Cyber war will be resolved so the point is that the regulation should be point is that the regulation should be point is that the regulation should be because the problem with regulations are because the problem with regulations are because the problem with regulations are always after the fact I mean look at always after the fact I mean look at always after the fact I mean look at what you know Europe is done with gdpr what you know Europe is done with gdpr what you know Europe is done with gdpr yeah good idea but it would have been yeah good idea but it would have been yeah good idea but it would have been nice if it been done like 40 years ago nice if it been done like 40 years ago nice if it been done like 40 years ago now it's too late the concept system now it's too late the concept system now it's too late the concept system doesn't work anymore there no it doesn't doesn't work anymore there no it doesn't doesn't work anymore there no it doesn't work no it doesn't work because you

work no it doesn't work because you work no it doesn't work because you asked to consent to cookies and you also asked to consent to cookies and you also asked to consent to cookies and you also always say yes because they are million always say yes because they are million always say yes because they are million and the model is revers you shouldn't be and the model is revers you shouldn't be and the model is revers you shouldn't be you shouldn't be asked to consent to you shouldn't be asked to consent to you shouldn't be asked to consent to share you should be asked to write to share you should be asked to write to share you should be asked to write to use so anyway so the problem is that the use so anyway so the problem is that the use so anyway so the problem is that the regulation comes much more too late so regulation comes much more too late so regulation comes much more too late so the regulation have to come early enough the regulation have to come early enough the regulation have to come early enough and it be Visionary with a long-term and it be Visionary with a long-term and it be Visionary with a long-term value and that's very rare but the yes value and that's very rare but the yes value and that's very rare but the yes bomb goes into to me into this direction bomb goes into to me into this direction bomb goes into to me into this direction oh we need more than that what we oh we need more than that what we oh we need more than that what we introduced a while back is the idea of introduced a while back is the idea of introduced a while back is the idea of Cy bomb system level yeah yeah no but Cy bomb system level yeah yeah no but Cy bomb system level yeah yeah no but the the the concept it's the concept of transparency concept it's the concept of transparency concept it's the concept of transparency you're using a piece of thing and you you're using a piece of thing and you you're using a piece of thing and you have a label that exactly what it is so have a label that exactly what it is so have a label that exactly what it is so we're way ahead of Regulation that's we're way ahead of Regulation that's we're way ahead of Regulation that's what I'm saying in about five six years what I'm saying in about five six years what I'm saying in about five six years everybody will talking be talking about everybody will talking be talking about everybody will talking be talking about Cy bomb but no that's the awesome thing Cy bomb but no that's the awesome thing Cy bomb but no that's the awesome thing about having Debbie on maybe we have to about having Debbie on maybe we have to about having Debbie on maybe we have to change our recording day to Friday change our recording day to Friday change our recording day to Friday because because because I mean she is more than the data Diva I mean she is more than the data Diva I mean she is more than the data Diva she's like she does amazing stuff you she's like she does amazing stuff you she's like she does amazing stuff you know and um the perspective and question know and um the perspective and question know and um the perspective and question she brings I I love it it's got we got she brings I I love it it's got we got she brings I I love it it's got we got to figure out a way to slaughter in and to figure out a way to slaughter in and to figure out a way to slaughter in and have her you know just be on all the have her you know just be on all the have her you know just be on all the time with Stephanie you time with Stephanie you time with Stephanie you know so know so know so absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely yeah crazy crazy crazy world absolutely yeah crazy crazy crazy world absolutely yeah crazy crazy crazy world we Liv Liv in so much to talk it's we Liv Liv in so much to talk it's we Liv Liv in so much to talk it's incredible so I think it's uh time we incredible so I think it's uh time we incredible so I think it's uh time we wrap up this uh oh geez is this like the

wrap up this uh oh geez is this like the wrap up this uh oh geez is this like the 240th episode is it oh my gosh we're 240th episode is it oh my gosh we're 240th episode is it oh my gosh we're almost wow 250 10 more weeks so almost wow 250 10 more weeks so almost wow 250 10 more weeks so celebrate the 256th actually not the 250 celebrate the 256th actually not the 250 celebrate the 256th actually not the 250 yes I totally agreeing we're making that session agreeing we're making that session encrypted I can see Bitcoin wallet uh behind I can see Bitcoin wallet uh behind Leonard what happened huh you have a Leonard what happened huh you have a Leonard what happened huh you have a Bitcoin wallet behind Bitcoin wallet behind Bitcoin wallet behind you why I don't think it looks it must be a why I don't think it looks it must be a picture joking you would appreciate that in joking you would appreciate that in French there is this very famous pastry French there is this very famous pastry French there is this very famous pastry called a me f a thousand leaves and you called a me f a thousand leaves and you called a me f a thousand leaves and you do it by folding the pastry folding do it by folding the pastry folding do it by folding the pastry folding folding folding and I've always been folding folding and I've always been folding folding and I've always been arguing it's not a 1,000 leaves it's a arguing it's not a 1,000 leaves it's a arguing it's not a 1,000 leaves it's a 1,24 because when all right guys all right so let's when all right guys all right so let's wrap this up hey everyone Thanks for wrap this up hey everyone Thanks for wrap this up hey everyone Thanks for tuning in watching really appreciate tuning in watching really appreciate tuning in watching really appreciate your viewership and we if you made it your viewership and we if you made it your viewership and we if you made it this far it's freaking amazing and this far it's freaking amazing and this far it's freaking amazing and remember we have our iot coffee not iot remember we have our iot coffee not iot remember we have our iot coffee not iot Coffee Talk Elevate our kids Coffee Talk Elevate our kids Coffee Talk Elevate our kids .org donation drive for 2025 we have a .org donation drive for 2025 we have a .org donation drive for 2025 we have a very modest goal of uh raising very modest goal of uh raising very modest goal of uh raising $25,000 for kids K through 12 in

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