IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 153 - Why Techno Tribalism Sucks!

[Music] [Music] thank you foreign foreign [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] people rock and roll I've said it before people rock and roll I've said it before people rock and roll I've said it before why are you wasting your time with us why are you wasting your time with us why are you wasting your time with us you need to be on the road that is a you need to be on the road that is a you need to be on the road that is a really good question increasing me really good question increasing me really good question increasing me rocking it on the road dude seriously rocking it on the road dude seriously rocking it on the road dude seriously this is a waste of your time

guitar lesson so anyone out there wants guitar lesson so anyone out there wants to learn I actually can play people to learn I actually can play people to learn I actually can play people don't believe they probably think here don't believe they probably think here don't believe they probably think here all right I'll show you all right I'll show you all right I'll show you watch this ridiculously fast stuff okay watch this ridiculously fast stuff okay watch this ridiculously fast stuff okay all right see I know how to play I'm not making it see I know how to play I'm not making it it's Leonard Van Halen it's Leonard Van Halen it's Leonard Van Halen uh uh uh yeah it's super nice what really blows yeah it's super nice what really blows yeah it's super nice what really blows my mind is the freaking Dutch don't even my mind is the freaking Dutch don't even my mind is the freaking Dutch don't even know who Eddie is yeah know who Eddie is yeah know who Eddie is yeah you you like mentioned something weird you you like mentioned something weird you you like mentioned something weird obscure like techno pop that's wow it's sad you know Eddie Van that's wow it's sad you know Eddie Van Halen is rolling in his grave right now Halen is rolling in his grave right now Halen is rolling in his grave right now just going I can't believe it the Dutch just going I can't believe it the Dutch just going I can't believe it the Dutch don't know me and I I hung out at the don't know me and I I hung out at the don't know me and I I hung out at the the what he called the bullfrog the what he called the bullfrog the what he called the bullfrog with Sammy Hagar for years and years and with Sammy Hagar for years and years and with Sammy Hagar for years and years and years and you guys don't remember me and years and you guys don't remember me and years and you guys don't remember me and he's Dutch he's Dutch he's Dutch I do think a lot of other Dutch people I do think a lot of other Dutch people I do think a lot of other Dutch people know I know him by the way I I actually know I know him by the way I I actually know I know him by the way I I actually and now uh looked him up so I'm in and now uh looked him up so I'm in and now uh looked him up so I'm in it it it see that it's not supposed to work that see that it's not supposed to work that see that it's not supposed to work that way you're supposed to know who he is way you're supposed to know who he is way you're supposed to know who he is that's not that's not the definition of that's not that's not the definition of that's not that's not the definition of famous people right that you have to famous people right that you have to famous people right that you have to Google them Google them Google them yeah exactly yeah I mean on my Dutch

yeah exactly yeah I mean on my Dutch yeah exactly yeah I mean on my Dutch friends looked him up on Wikipedia to friends looked him up on Wikipedia to friends looked him up on Wikipedia to find out about it yeah well you know they just happen to be well you know they just happen to be like one of the biggest acts ever for like one of the biggest acts ever for like one of the biggest acts ever for Warner Warner Warner um music um music um music I mean you know they're they're I mean you know they're they're I mean you know they're they're legendary Right legendary Right legendary Right um they broke Legend Dairy legendary um they broke Legend Dairy legendary um they broke Legend Dairy legendary yeah legendary yeah legendary yeah legendary but hey uh all right all right but hey uh all right all right but hey uh all right all right how's it going how's it going how's it going well I'm surprised Rob you're not in the well I'm surprised Rob you're not in the well I'm surprised Rob you're not in the field do you have like a bunch of photos field do you have like a bunch of photos field do you have like a bunch of photos that you're sharing on LinkedIn of you that you're sharing on LinkedIn of you that you're sharing on LinkedIn of you doing the whole iot plumber thing doing the whole iot plumber thing doing the whole iot plumber thing what gives man I'm back I'm back home oh you are I've I'm back I'm back home oh you are I've been out been out been out I'm back home man I've been I'm back home man I've been I'm back home man I've been I've been filled but I've been filled but I've been filled but I've been for over a month I've been for over a month I've been for over a month um I drove back to Seattle at the end of um I drove back to Seattle at the end of um I drove back to Seattle at the end of last week yeah I've been I've been gone last week yeah I've been I've been gone last week yeah I've been I've been gone this whole time mostly different parts this whole time mostly different parts this whole time mostly different parts of Texas and of Texas and of Texas and had to spend some time in North Carolina had to spend some time in North Carolina had to spend some time in North Carolina and just lots of lots of meetings and and just lots of lots of meetings and and just lots of lots of meetings and crazy work stuff you know so yeah yeah yes and now that I'm back here in the yes and now that I'm back here in the Seattle area I've realized that Seattle area I've realized that Seattle area I've realized that spring has not arrived summer did summer did no no no no no no neither it's still cold and rainy and neither it's still cold and rainy and neither it's still cold and rainy and not good oh really wow yeah yeah when I not good oh really wow yeah yeah when I not good oh really wow yeah yeah when I was in Texas it was nice everything was

was in Texas it was nice everything was was in Texas it was nice everything was great great great well um yeah our trees the deciduous well um yeah our trees the deciduous well um yeah our trees the deciduous trees in our neighborhood are acting trees in our neighborhood are acting trees in our neighborhood are acting wacky there are no leaves on any of them we're like almost uh in May I know I we're like almost uh in May I know I know it's just there's something know it's just there's something know it's just there's something definitely definitely definitely yeah so hey what are you what are you up yeah so hey what are you what are you up yeah so hey what are you what are you up to vinky to vinky to vinky yeah yeah just uh the usual just yeah yeah just uh the usual just yeah yeah just uh the usual just um uh pushing uh help with customers um uh pushing uh help with customers um uh pushing uh help with customers with the lower one and uh pretty kind of with the lower one and uh pretty kind of with the lower one and uh pretty kind of yeah really good traction yeah really good traction yeah really good traction um we're gonna have our things um we're gonna have our things um we're gonna have our things conference Santa Clara event on 18th conference Santa Clara event on 18th conference Santa Clara event on 18th July in Santa Clara Convention Center July in Santa Clara Convention Center July in Santa Clara Convention Center and said it's cool yeah it's gonna be and said it's cool yeah it's gonna be and said it's cool yeah it's gonna be there Olivier block for Microsoft so there Olivier block for Microsoft so there Olivier block for Microsoft so excited for that yeah uh and just doing excited for that yeah uh and just doing excited for that yeah uh and just doing uh kind of sharing a lot of stories of uh kind of sharing a lot of stories of uh kind of sharing a lot of stories of kind of the customers and he has a kind of the customers and he has a kind of the customers and he has a really steady growth everything is really steady growth everything is really steady growth everything is growing a bit like 60 year and year and growing a bit like 60 year and year and growing a bit like 60 year and year and um yeah it's it's I think it's an um yeah it's it's I think it's an um yeah it's it's I think it's an interesting time in the iot market is interesting time in the iot market is interesting time in the iot market is that I I think I think you have kind of that I I think I think you have kind of that I I think I think you have kind of this kind of this kind of this kind of kind of ongoing crisis creates this kind of ongoing crisis creates this kind of ongoing crisis creates this division between division between division between pocs that were not so kind of pocs that were not so kind of pocs that were not so kind of yeah working well people just killed yeah working well people just killed yeah working well people just killed them and they left I think a lot of them and they left I think a lot of them and they left I think a lot of investment for the ones that actually investment for the ones that actually investment for the ones that actually were successful to actually yeah we we were successful to actually yeah we we were successful to actually yeah we we see I don't know what you see as well uh see I don't know what you see as well uh see I don't know what you see as well uh Rob with your kind of Road shows and is

Rob with your kind of Road shows and is Rob with your kind of Road shows and is that that the kind of the OPEC saving that that the kind of the OPEC saving that that the kind of the OPEC saving angle that iot brings is it's very very angle that iot brings is it's very very angle that iot brings is it's very very very interesting for for customers I I very interesting for for customers I I very interesting for for customers I I just only see the traction there because just only see the traction there because just only see the traction there because that's what people looking for right that's what people looking for right that's what people looking for right they they're looking to kind of uh they they're looking to kind of uh they they're looking to kind of uh optimize the bottom line optimize the bottom line optimize the bottom line and the ones the iot solutions that work and the ones the iot solutions that work and the ones the iot solutions that work just do that yeah right yeah right yeah just do that yeah right yeah right yeah just do that yeah right yeah right yeah yeah no more horizontal people just want yeah no more horizontal people just want yeah no more horizontal people just want super specific vertical Solutions and super specific vertical Solutions and super specific vertical Solutions and it's all about money and you need to be it's all about money and you need to be it's all about money and you need to be talking about the money right away yeah talking about the money right away yeah talking about the money right away yeah yeah yeah yeah oh yeah don't just don't just talk about oh yeah don't just don't just talk about oh yeah don't just don't just talk about optimized or whatever efficiency or blah optimized or whatever efficiency or blah optimized or whatever efficiency or blah blah blah they want to show me the money blah blah they want to show me the money blah blah they want to show me the money right away yeah which you know when when right away yeah which you know when when right away yeah which you know when when times are more difficult that's that's times are more difficult that's that's times are more difficult that's that's kind of where the stress comes you know kind of where the stress comes you know kind of where the stress comes you know when things are abundant great and when things are abundant great and when things are abundant great and money's everywhere and everybody's just money's everywhere and everybody's just money's everywhere and everybody's just having a big party that's like yeah having a big party that's like yeah having a big party that's like yeah let's go do that when it's tough It's let's go do that when it's tough It's let's go do that when it's tough It's you know you have to get really serious you know you have to get really serious you know you have to get really serious about it about it about it um I did find it interesting we probably um I did find it interesting we probably um I did find it interesting we probably already talked about this because I was already talked about this because I was already talked about this because I was gonna I think I had a broadcast that was gonna I think I had a broadcast that was gonna I think I had a broadcast that was one of the things I did when I was in one of the things I did when I was in one of the things I did when I was in Texas I was at a Texas I was at a Texas I was at a an event there was an oil and gas event an event there was an oil and gas event an event there was an oil and gas event though but it was it was about you know though but it was it was about you know though but it was it was about you know Net Zero and all that kind of stuff and Net Zero and all that kind of stuff and Net Zero and all that kind of stuff and you had a lot of the you had a lot of the you had a lot of the sustainability leaders from all the sustainability leaders from all the sustainability leaders from all the biggest oil companies there and you know biggest oil companies there and you know biggest oil companies there and you know the I think for them lots of policy

the I think for them lots of policy the I think for them lots of policy discussions how do we do this discussions how do we do this discussions how do we do this I think it was eye opener when I got on I think it was eye opener when I got on I think it was eye opener when I got on stage and was the only technical person stage and was the only technical person stage and was the only technical person at the whole conference and said and at the whole conference and said and at the whole conference and said and said let me show you how to do this said let me show you how to do this said let me show you how to do this thing that you're talking about and it thing that you're talking about and it thing that you're talking about and it was like all these people had never was like all these people had never was like all these people had never heard this so I'm like these are these heard this so I'm like these are these heard this so I'm like these are these are Executives from Exxon shell Chevron are Executives from Exxon shell Chevron are Executives from Exxon shell Chevron you know Conoco all the biggest you know Conoco all the biggest you know Conoco all the biggest companies in the world and I was companies in the world and I was companies in the world and I was surprised to hear that they didn't surprised to hear that they didn't surprised to hear that they didn't exactly know how to do the thing they exactly know how to do the thing they exactly know how to do the thing they want to do and um and so sometimes we want to do and um and so sometimes we want to do and um and so sometimes we stumble upon a use case stumble upon a use case stumble upon a use case where iot is actually the perfect thing where iot is actually the perfect thing where iot is actually the perfect thing for it you know it's it's measuring for it you know it's it's measuring for it you know it's it's measuring things remotely in real time that's what things remotely in real time that's what things remotely in real time that's what it is and that's what they need in order it is and that's what they need in order it is and that's what they need in order to achieve their goals and so uh so I to achieve their goals and so uh so I to achieve their goals and so uh so I wanted a simpler and a simpler and the wanted a simpler and a simpler and the wanted a simpler and a simpler and the simpler and more binary valve open simpler and more binary valve open simpler and more binary valve open closed yeah open closed especially uh closed yeah open closed especially uh closed yeah open closed especially uh what we see for instance in kind of what we see for instance in kind of what we see for instance in kind of petrochemical we're actually sending out petrochemical we're actually sending out petrochemical we're actually sending out somebody in the field where the hand of somebody in the field where the hand of somebody in the field where the hand of the like when you go within the fence the like when you go within the fence the like when you go within the fence you need kind of 100 certifications and you need kind of 100 certifications and you need kind of 100 certifications and courses and courses and courses and insurances for that person just to insurances for that person just to insurances for that person just to actually step one foot in an area kind actually step one foot in an area kind actually step one foot in an area kind of a long range kind of iot sensor is of a long range kind of iot sensor is of a long range kind of iot sensor is just just just as just unbelievable how much kind of as just unbelievable how much kind of as just unbelievable how much kind of yeah yeah yeah um yeah um yeah um yeah yeah no you're absolutely right and just

yeah no you're absolutely right and just yeah no you're absolutely right and just measuring emissions you know what what measuring emissions you know what what measuring emissions you know what what what do we always talk about you know if what do we always talk about you know if what do we always talk about you know if you want to if you want to make that you want to if you want to make that you want to if you want to make that change make that Improvement or manage change make that Improvement or manage change make that Improvement or manage it you've got to measure it right yeah it you've got to measure it right yeah it you've got to measure it right yeah and so and so it starts with and so and so it starts with and so and so it starts with you know for those guys trying to get to you know for those guys trying to get to you know for those guys trying to get to Net Zero I need to measure my CO2 and Net Zero I need to measure my CO2 and Net Zero I need to measure my CO2 and methane emissions just to know where I methane emissions just to know where I methane emissions just to know where I am and to know where their problems are am and to know where their problems are am and to know where their problems are having some guy drive out there and find having some guy drive out there and find having some guy drive out there and find out in a pickup truck you know or out in a pickup truck you know or out in a pickup truck you know or whatever so uh so yeah so that's all whatever so uh so yeah so that's all whatever so uh so yeah so that's all good for sure good for sure good for sure um yeah it was a good trip I think I um yeah it was a good trip I think I um yeah it was a good trip I think I probably gained 10 pounds being in Texas yeah the portions are huge yeah the portions are huge the food is so good man the Mexican the food is so good man the Mexican the food is so good man the Mexican food's good chicken fried steak with food's good chicken fried steak with food's good chicken fried steak with cream gravy oh my God it's all bad it's cream gravy oh my God it's all bad it's cream gravy oh my God it's all bad it's scary it's so good scary it's so good scary it's so good Papados yeah that's right papa doe Papados yeah that's right papa doe Papados yeah that's right papa doe Papacitos Papacitos Papacitos high-end steakhouses everywhere it was high-end steakhouses everywhere it was high-end steakhouses everywhere it was over the top for sure but yeah it's good over the top for sure but yeah it's good over the top for sure but yeah it's good to be back that last drive back this to be back that last drive back this to be back that last drive back this last week though it was tough man I drove your way towards California I drove your way towards California um I did take a back way though um I did take a back way though um I did take a back way though um when I was when I made I was going um when I was when I made I was going um when I was when I made I was going you know from Texas on I-10 towards La you know from Texas on I-10 towards La you know from Texas on I-10 towards La right yeah yeah and when I when I got to right yeah yeah and when I when I got to right yeah yeah and when I when I got to about Indio and Coachella and stuff like about Indio and Coachella and stuff like about Indio and Coachella and stuff like that I saw in the map ahead it was like that I saw in the map ahead it was like that I saw in the map ahead it was like this hour and a half way delay on high this hour and a half way delay on high this hour and a half way delay on high five I-10 going to L.A so I took short I

five I-10 going to L.A so I took short I five I-10 going to L.A so I took short I went well I don't know if it's a went well I don't know if it's a went well I don't know if it's a shortcut but I took it back way through shortcut but I took it back way through shortcut but I took it back way through the mountains and ended up driving the mountains and ended up driving the mountains and ended up driving through Barstow and spent the night in through Barstow and spent the night in through Barstow and spent the night in Bakersfield Bakersfield Bakersfield so ah I've now been to Bakersfield and so ah I've now been to Bakersfield and so ah I've now been to Bakersfield and then I drove the next day drove through then I drove the next day drove through then I drove the next day drove through the whole San Joaquin Valley through all the whole San Joaquin Valley through all the whole San Joaquin Valley through all the Farmland that was pretty cool yeah the Farmland that was pretty cool yeah the Farmland that was pretty cool yeah yeah and you know uh yeah and you know uh yeah and you know uh it it's it's a it it's it's a it it's it's a it's a nice drive but you know it's a it's a nice drive but you know it's a it's a nice drive but you know it's a little bit desolate little bit desolate little bit desolate why is that drive them I mean for why is that drive them I mean for why is that drive them I mean for somebody from Europe it's like I think somebody from Europe it's like I think somebody from Europe it's like I think going to press going to Paris is already going to press going to Paris is already going to press going to Paris is already like five hours by car which is yeah like five hours by car which is yeah like five hours by car which is yeah already hours already hours already hours so yeah driving from Houston Texas back so yeah driving from Houston Texas back so yeah driving from Houston Texas back to Seattle it took me four days um yeah and I really pushed the envelope um yeah and I really pushed the envelope I got an early start really really early I got an early start really really early I got an early start really really early like on a Sunday morning in Houston and like on a Sunday morning in Houston and like on a Sunday morning in Houston and drove all the way normally a long drive drove all the way normally a long drive drove all the way normally a long drive would be Houston to maybe would be Houston to maybe would be Houston to maybe Van Horn Texas where blue origin Van Horn Texas where blue origin Van Horn Texas where blue origin launches their Rockets from that would launches their Rockets from that would launches their Rockets from that would have been a long drive and even longer have been a long drive and even longer have been a long drive and even longer drive would have been all the way to El drive would have been all the way to El drive would have been all the way to El Paso even longer would be lost I made it Paso even longer would be lost I made it Paso even longer would be lost I made it here not that anybody knows this I made here not that anybody knows this I made here not that anybody knows this I made it all the way to Lordsburg New Mexico it all the way to Lordsburg New Mexico it all the way to Lordsburg New Mexico on the first day and Lordsburg is almost on the first day and Lordsburg is almost on the first day and Lordsburg is almost to the border of Arizona to the border of Arizona to the border of Arizona um because because one of those weird um because because one of those weird um because because one of those weird things is once you've made it to El Paso things is once you've made it to El Paso things is once you've made it to El Paso Texas you're already halfway across New Texas you're already halfway across New Texas you're already halfway across New Mexico because the way it juts out Mexico because the way it juts out Mexico because the way it juts out across in the states above it and so across in the states above it and so across in the states above it and so you're only halfway to Arizona when

you're only halfway to Arizona when you're only halfway to Arizona when you're there and uh and it's crazy from you're there and uh and it's crazy from you're there and uh and it's crazy from the far border of Texas to El Paso is the far border of Texas to El Paso is the far border of Texas to El Paso is longer than from El Paso to Los Angeles longer than from El Paso to Los Angeles longer than from El Paso to Los Angeles so it's crazy so all of this in the so it's crazy so all of this in the so it's crazy so all of this in the Tesla or not Tesla or not Tesla or not no way way no way no way way no way no way way no way there's no way I would have killed there's no way I would have killed there's no way I would have killed myself ever stop every few hours and myself ever stop every few hours and myself ever stop every few hours and charge and it's impossible actually to charge and it's impossible actually to charge and it's impossible actually to go from Houston to to Seattle on the go from Houston to to Seattle on the go from Houston to to Seattle on the supercharger Network in the U.S supercharger Network in the U.S supercharger Network in the U.S I think it is but only because it's you I think it is but only because it's you I think it is but only because it's you can follow two really major highways uh can follow two really major highways uh can follow two really major highways uh because I-10 going east and west is a because I-10 going east and west is a because I-10 going east and west is a major highway than the five you know major highway than the five you know major highway than the five you know going from where Leonard lives all the going from where Leonard lives all the going from where Leonard lives all the way up to the very top is a major and so way up to the very top is a major and so way up to the very top is a major and so you probably could you probably could you probably could but it would have taken me probably but it would have taken me probably but it would have taken me probably twice or three times as long to do it twice or three times as long to do it twice or three times as long to do it um if I was having to charge all the um if I was having to charge all the um if I was having to charge all the time so yeah that'd be difficult time so yeah that'd be difficult time so yeah that'd be difficult and I guess they're in is the problem and I guess they're in is the problem and I guess they're in is the problem there's a big group or you know big part there's a big group or you know big part there's a big group or you know big part of the population that needs to get past of the population that needs to get past of the population that needs to get past that I guess of you know I can't take a that I guess of you know I can't take a that I guess of you know I can't take a long drive even though I hear people do long drive even though I hear people do long drive even though I hear people do it it it you know and you know and you know and we have a sandwich or something yeah we we have a sandwich or something yeah we we have a sandwich or something yeah we live in a big and small world live in a big and small world live in a big and small world right yeah and uh yeah those road trips right yeah and uh yeah those road trips right yeah and uh yeah those road trips are great because you learn so much you are great because you learn so much you are great because you learn so much you know I I find myself know I I find myself know I I find myself um uh you know accounting counting cell

um uh you know accounting counting cell um uh you know accounting counting cell towers for some reason it's like a real towers for some reason it's like a real towers for some reason it's like a real odd habit of mine when it go on oh hey odd habit of mine when it go on oh hey odd habit of mine when it go on oh hey look at that cell tower oh I think look at that cell tower oh I think look at that cell tower oh I think that's what Wireless industry people do that's what Wireless industry people do that's what Wireless industry people do they count cell towers that's great they count cell towers that's great they count cell towers that's great Leonard yeah Leonard yeah Leonard yeah yeah yeah yeah but you know one of the things that I've but you know one of the things that I've but you know one of the things that I've noticed in many of the conferences that noticed in many of the conferences that noticed in many of the conferences that I'm going to I mean you know more I'm going to I mean you know more I'm going to I mean you know more recently the National Association of recently the National Association of recently the National Association of broadcasting is broadcasting is broadcasting is um you know there's a lot of um you know there's a lot of um you know there's a lot of um blending of Wireless Technologies for um blending of Wireless Technologies for um blending of Wireless Technologies for for backhaul right so on the access side for backhaul right so on the access side for backhaul right so on the access side you might have let something like Laura you might have let something like Laura you might have let something like Laura and then it's going through a Gateway or and then it's going through a Gateway or and then it's going through a Gateway or it's it's incorporated into a CP or it's it's incorporated into a CP or it's it's incorporated into a CP or whatever uh a 5G or some other kind of whatever uh a 5G or some other kind of whatever uh a 5G or some other kind of uh you know back call Access but uh you know back call Access but uh you know back call Access but um one of the things I was surprised um one of the things I was surprised um one of the things I was surprised about was how often uh startling came up about was how often uh startling came up about was how often uh startling came up in the conversation used as backhaul and in the conversation used as backhaul and in the conversation used as backhaul and so I think one of the things that we can so I think one of the things that we can so I think one of the things that we can expect going forward is a lot more like expect going forward is a lot more like expect going forward is a lot more like let's let's call it an expanded uh let's let's call it an expanded uh let's let's call it an expanded uh mindset about how we can deploy mindset about how we can deploy mindset about how we can deploy um Solutions and the role of different um Solutions and the role of different um Solutions and the role of different types of Technologies and protocols in types of Technologies and protocols in types of Technologies and protocols in in you know infrastructure deployments in you know infrastructure deployments in you know infrastructure deployments right that support let's say right that support let's say right that support let's say Agriculture and and you know I my sense Agriculture and and you know I my sense Agriculture and and you know I my sense is a lot of the stuff is still pretty

is a lot of the stuff is still pretty is a lot of the stuff is still pretty nascent do you know what I'm saying nascent do you know what I'm saying nascent do you know what I'm saying um it it seems like it would be obvious um it it seems like it would be obvious um it it seems like it would be obvious but people haven't and I think it was but people haven't and I think it was but people haven't and I think it was it's been the back of people's minds and it's been the back of people's minds and it's been the back of people's minds and I I think you guys are doing some stuff I I think you guys are doing some stuff I I think you guys are doing some stuff at things industries right along those at things industries right along those at things industries right along those lines I'm wrong I'm wrong I think the kind of how I see it is that I think the kind of how I see it is that I think the kind of how I see it is that we have this big kind of vision or an we have this big kind of vision or an we have this big kind of vision or an iot or connectivity of ubiquitous iot or connectivity of ubiquitous iot or connectivity of ubiquitous connectivity which is like a very fancy connectivity which is like a very fancy connectivity which is like a very fancy term and high term and and and how we're term and high term and and and how we're term and high term and and and how we're gonna get there it's gonna be very messy gonna get there it's gonna be very messy gonna get there it's gonna be very messy uh from the start it's going to be spots uh from the start it's going to be spots uh from the start it's going to be spots and it's going to be and and satellite and it's going to be and and satellite and it's going to be and and satellite it's just very clear it's gonna have the it's just very clear it's gonna have the it's just very clear it's gonna have the power of zero spots it's gonna have the power of zero spots it's gonna have the power of zero spots it's gonna have the power zero so it's not the satellite is power zero so it's not the satellite is power zero so it's not the satellite is not gonna not gonna not gonna it's going to fill this final Gap and it's going to fill this final Gap and it's going to fill this final Gap and make sure that it's always possible it make sure that it's always possible it make sure that it's always possible it comes at a cost right yeah I do believe comes at a cost right yeah I do believe comes at a cost right yeah I do believe that you will see kind of a massive that you will see kind of a massive that you will see kind of a massive consolidation on on Space iot companies consolidation on on Space iot companies consolidation on on Space iot companies um going forward in kind of the next 12 um going forward in kind of the next 12 um going forward in kind of the next 12 months yeah months yeah months yeah um and there will be a few ones that um and there will be a few ones that um and there will be a few ones that will deliver kind of propositions that will deliver kind of propositions that will deliver kind of propositions that that are going to be that are going to be that are going to be gonna be super super exciting gonna be super super exciting gonna be super super exciting but what I do also believe it's going to but what I do also believe it's going to but what I do also believe it's going to be filling the Gap so be filling the Gap so be filling the Gap so that probably is not a really great that probably is not a really great that probably is not a really great pitch to your

pitch to your pitch to your VC when you're gonna kind of spend money VC when you're gonna kind of spend money VC when you're gonna kind of spend money on launching these satellites and hey on launching these satellites and hey on launching these satellites and hey yeah we're going to fill a few gaps yeah we're going to fill a few gaps yeah we're going to fill a few gaps right so how are you going to monetize right so how are you going to monetize right so how are you going to monetize on that right like like so but I I do on that right like like so but I I do on that right like like so but I I do feel that there are kind of there's a feel that there are kind of there's a feel that there are kind of there's a there's a there's a space I must say there's a there's a space I must say there's a there's a space I must say when they talked about satellite when they talked about satellite when they talked about satellite cellular at Mobile World Congress cellular at Mobile World Congress cellular at Mobile World Congress like they needed something like that like they needed something like that like they needed something like that they needed a 2023 theme they needed a 2023 theme they needed a 2023 theme like two months a half the CEO said give like two months a half the CEO said give like two months a half the CEO said give me something give me something right me something give me something right me something give me something right yeah give me something oh here's the yeah give me something oh here's the yeah give me something oh here's the settlement yeah oh yeah I said live well settlement yeah oh yeah I said live well settlement yeah oh yeah I said live well fine and then uh so I thought it was fine and then uh so I thought it was fine and then uh so I thought it was like it was really kind of I don't like it was really kind of I don't like it was really kind of I don't didn't really feel serious but I I also didn't really feel serious but I I also didn't really feel serious but I I also feel that that it's that's that's feel that that it's that's that's feel that that it's that's that's filling the spots um and then as a filling the spots um and then as a filling the spots um and then as a backhaul we have a setup here and we we backhaul we have a setup here and we we backhaul we have a setup here and we we have a completely working with the have a completely working with the have a completely working with the starlink uh my issue with Starling is starlink uh my issue with Starling is starlink uh my issue with Starling is that that that I see that the demand comes from places I see that the demand comes from places I see that the demand comes from places which are not so friendly and and if you which are not so friendly and and if you which are not so friendly and and if you put it somewhere and there's a put it somewhere and there's a put it somewhere and there's a likelihood of a rock falling on the likelihood of a rock falling on the likelihood of a rock falling on the satellite kind of thingy then I don't satellite kind of thingy then I don't satellite kind of thingy then I don't know how that's going to survive so I I know how that's going to survive so I I know how that's going to survive so I I don't I don't it's not really a don't I don't it's not really a don't I don't it's not really a ruggedized thing it's really an ruggedized thing it's really an ruggedized thing it's really an Enterprise thing you put on a safe place Enterprise thing you put on a safe place Enterprise thing you put on a safe place right and the places where I think my right and the places where I think my right and the places where I think my customers wanting to have that is not customers wanting to have that is not customers wanting to have that is not are not safe places are not safe places are not safe places um right right and also they need kind um right right and also they need kind um right right and also they need kind of I really believe in the problems I think I really believe in the problems I think it's going to take a bit longer and I it's going to take a bit longer and I it's going to take a bit longer and I think the companies that get gonna make think the companies that get gonna make think the companies that get gonna make less money than they expect it will be

less money than they expect it will be less money than they expect it will be well ruggedizing stuff is it's doable well ruggedizing stuff is it's doable well ruggedizing stuff is it's doable right it just boils down to cost and right it just boils down to cost and right it just boils down to cost and what makes sense and I you know I think what makes sense and I you know I think what makes sense and I you know I think the trend to watch is how the economics the trend to watch is how the economics the trend to watch is how the economics change though they will I mean they change though they will I mean they change though they will I mean they should I'm not going to say they will should I'm not going to say they will should I'm not going to say they will they should get better uh you know they should get better uh you know they should get better uh you know there's no doubt that starlink uh that there's no doubt that starlink uh that there's no doubt that starlink uh that organization is looking for new Revenue organization is looking for new Revenue organization is looking for new Revenue opportunities and different types of opportunities and different types of opportunities and different types of applications as long as they can support applications as long as they can support applications as long as they can support them uh you know a variety of stuff them uh you know a variety of stuff them uh you know a variety of stuff including all the Broadband stuff the including all the Broadband stuff the including all the Broadband stuff the stuff that they're doing to support stuff that they're doing to support stuff that they're doing to support broadcasting uh and maybe even doing broadcasting uh and maybe even doing broadcasting uh and maybe even doing some of the iot stuff I mean that's all some of the iot stuff I mean that's all some of the iot stuff I mean that's all good for them but I I think good for them but I I think good for them but I I think if we were to look at things from a uh a if we were to look at things from a uh a if we were to look at things from a uh a um um um let's say a solution provider's let's say a solution provider's let's say a solution provider's perspective there's a lot of options do perspective there's a lot of options do perspective there's a lot of options do you know what I'm saying and and can and you know what I'm saying and and can and you know what I'm saying and and can and um I think that's a good thing I think um I think that's a good thing I think um I think that's a good thing I think it's a good thing it's just that in it's a good thing it's just that in it's a good thing it's just that in terms of how people think about what is terms of how people think about what is terms of how people think about what is possible hasn't possible hasn't possible hasn't um it it hasn't formed quite yet you um it it hasn't formed quite yet you um it it hasn't formed quite yet you know it's more of a subconscious thing know it's more of a subconscious thing know it's more of a subconscious thing it's like yeah I kind of know about this it's like yeah I kind of know about this it's like yeah I kind of know about this stuff but they haven't put a lot of stuff but they haven't put a lot of stuff but they haven't put a lot of energy into exploring uh those energy into exploring uh those energy into exploring uh those possibilities but I am hearing more and possibilities but I am hearing more and possibilities but I am hearing more and more uh cases where people are talking more uh cases where people are talking more uh cases where people are talking about like a heterogeneous Network

about like a heterogeneous Network about like a heterogeneous Network Technologies coming together to to Technologies coming together to to Technologies coming together to to support new types of deployments or you support new types of deployments or you support new types of deployments or you know deployments that we wish we could know deployments that we wish we could know deployments that we wish we could do that are now possible it's just that do that are now possible it's just that do that are now possible it's just that you know like you you guys are screwing you know like you you guys are screwing you know like you you guys are screwing around with the starlink you're around with the starlink you're around with the starlink you're discovering what works what doesn't all discovering what works what doesn't all discovering what works what doesn't all the issues everything that you just the issues everything that you just the issues everything that you just raised I think are great problems to to raised I think are great problems to to raised I think are great problems to to solve and in advancing uh you know uh in solve and in advancing uh you know uh in solve and in advancing uh you know uh in advancing what can be actually deployed advancing what can be actually deployed advancing what can be actually deployed in addressing customers in addressing customers in addressing customers um challenges right so I don't know man um challenges right so I don't know man um challenges right so I don't know man I think that's it's so what Rob also I think that's it's so what Rob also I think that's it's so what Rob also said it's about the American it's about said it's about the American it's about said it's about the American it's about the anecdotes and The Narrative of of the anecdotes and The Narrative of of the anecdotes and The Narrative of of kind of what what it can do and what kind of what what it can do and what kind of what what it can do and what I've learned is kind of you can that I've learned is kind of you can that I've learned is kind of you can that nobody really cares about if you talk nobody really cares about if you talk nobody really cares about if you talk about your company or your your value about your company or your your value about your company or your your value proposition we we've got we've all built proposition we we've got we've all built proposition we we've got we've all built these kind of ad blockers in our brain these kind of ad blockers in our brain these kind of ad blockers in our brain just to turn off when when when somebody just to turn off when when when somebody just to turn off when when when somebody starts to self-promote starts to self-promote starts to self-promote um but what I've learned is that kind of um but what I've learned is that kind of um but what I've learned is that kind of what always pays attention if you are uh what always pays attention if you are uh what always pays attention if you are uh solving a problem for somebody's solving a problem for somebody's solving a problem for somebody's competitor then people pay attention competitor then people pay attention competitor then people pay attention right so right so right so um we've seen kind of a partner of us is um we've seen kind of a partner of us is um we've seen kind of a partner of us is also oil and gas and Rob maybe you've also oil and gas and Rob maybe you've also oil and gas and Rob maybe you've seen them at the conferences seen them at the conferences seen them at the conferences twtg and and they're kind of building twtg and and they're kind of building twtg and and they're kind of building their first accessories with black tier their first accessories with black tier their first accessories with black tier one oil companies and then all of a one oil companies and then all of a one oil companies and then all of a sudden like they're all gone in because sudden like they're all gone in because sudden like they're all gone in because like if this one does it

like if this one does it like if this one does it uh we should have it as well but uh yeah uh we should have it as well but uh yeah uh we should have it as well but uh yeah it's surprising what you're saying rob it's surprising what you're saying rob it's surprising what you're saying rob that that's still kind of putting that that that's still kind of putting that that that's still kind of putting that on the kind of on on the table and and on the kind of on on the table and and on the kind of on on the table and and the how the how the how uh that we still need to do the uh that we still need to do the uh that we still need to do the evangelization and evangelism yeah yeah evangelization and evangelism yeah yeah evangelization and evangelism yeah yeah I was really surprised because I thought I was really surprised because I thought I was really surprised because I thought everybody knew how by now everybody knew how by now everybody knew how by now um I usually just talk about the use um I usually just talk about the use um I usually just talk about the use cases normally and so yeah I am cases normally and so yeah I am cases normally and so yeah I am surprised when I find a bunch of surprised when I find a bunch of surprised when I find a bunch of high-level maybe it's because it's a high-level maybe it's because it's a high-level maybe it's because it's a high level maybe that's why they don't high level maybe that's why they don't high level maybe that's why they don't know they know policy very well you assume a lot of giant companies you you assume a lot of giant companies you figure they've they've got to their act figure they've they've got to their act figure they've they've got to their act together they've got all the money in together they've got all the money in together they've got all the money in the world no the world no the world no um and so yeah it is surprising when you um and so yeah it is surprising when you um and so yeah it is surprising when you see that for sure no doubt about it no see that for sure no doubt about it no see that for sure no doubt about it no and I also feel that it's like I think and I also feel that it's like I think and I also feel that it's like I think it's our job and our responsibility also it's our job and our responsibility also it's our job and our responsibility also to be a bit of kind of compliant not to be a bit of kind of compliant not to be a bit of kind of compliant not only on the kind of the business and only on the kind of the business and only on the kind of the business and solution but also in the process so I solution but also in the process so I solution but also in the process so I think I think it's also typical of like think I think it's also typical of like think I think it's also typical of like it's such a kind of like it's such a kind of like it's such a kind of like trusted kind of almost trusted industry trusted kind of almost trusted industry trusted kind of almost trusted industry that that that um you also have to be complying on how um you also have to be complying on how um you also have to be complying on how an oil and gas company does procurement an oil and gas company does procurement an oil and gas company does procurement yeah it is kind of it's gone completely yeah it is kind of it's gone completely yeah it is kind of it's gone completely I mean it's something that we I mean it's something that we I mean it's something that we underestimated uh but it it requires underestimated uh but it it requires underestimated uh but it it requires kind of kind of kind of adoption uh I mean it's not a massive adoption uh I mean it's not a massive adoption uh I mean it's not a massive process change but it it you have to

process change but it it you have to process change but it it you have to understand how things are going you have understand how things are going you have understand how things are going you have to design and plan for it to design and plan for it to design and plan for it um but yeah we could we have we have um but yeah we could we have we have um but yeah we could we have we have many kind of petrochemical industry uh many kind of petrochemical industry uh many kind of petrochemical industry uh customers out there and then and it's customers out there and then and it's customers out there and then and it's it's it's it's step by step but I mean it's it's it's step by step but I mean it's it's it's step by step but I mean it's just like it's just like it's just like just getting started just getting started just getting started yeah so they have so many regulatory yeah so they have so many regulatory yeah so they have so many regulatory things that they have to follow there's things that they have to follow there's things that they have to follow there's so many regulations by the government so many regulations by the government so many regulations by the government and today and today most of that is done and today and today most of that is done and today and today most of that is done by people walking around taking readings by people walking around taking readings by people walking around taking readings um and you know I've seen this entire um and you know I've seen this entire um and you know I've seen this entire Industries around Industries around Industries around oil and gas and petrochemical oil and gas and petrochemical oil and gas and petrochemical regulations and monitoring refineries or regulations and monitoring refineries or regulations and monitoring refineries or process Manufacturing Systems process Manufacturing Systems process Manufacturing Systems um for all kinds of missions to you know um for all kinds of missions to you know um for all kinds of missions to you know they got to fill out some paperwork and they got to fill out some paperwork and they got to fill out some paperwork and send to the government every month you send to the government every month you send to the government every month you know and iot is perfect for that stuff know and iot is perfect for that stuff know and iot is perfect for that stuff yeah for sure yeah yeah for sure yeah yeah for sure yeah yeah and so dude sorry and so dude sorry go ahead go ahead go ahead no I just wanted to link this to the no I just wanted to link this to the no I just wanted to link this to the satellite discussion and one of the satellite discussion and one of the satellite discussion and one of the things that I think yeah so about things that I think yeah so about things that I think yeah so about procurement and distribution and being procurement and distribution and being procurement and distribution and being compliant in process not only around compliant in process not only around compliant in process not only around business but being a business case business but being a business case business but being a business case positive is that I feel that positive is that I feel that positive is that I feel that um there's a lot of industries that love um there's a lot of industries that love um there's a lot of industries that love Cash and Carry products and I think Cash and Carry products and I think Cash and Carry products and I think that's that a satellite connected sensor that's that a satellite connected sensor that's that a satellite connected sensor is a perfect Cash and Carry compliant

is a perfect Cash and Carry compliant is a perfect Cash and Carry compliant product because you can bake into you product because you can bake into you product because you can bake into you can bake in the connectivity basically can bake in the connectivity basically can bake in the connectivity basically for 10 years so for 10 years so for 10 years so um um um like like also like like unlocking these like like also like like unlocking these like like also like like unlocking these industries is it's not always only the industries is it's not always only the industries is it's not always only the business case it's also being compliant business case it's also being compliant business case it's also being compliant and and satellite comes in even like and and satellite comes in even like and and satellite comes in even like with this kind of creativity if you even with this kind of creativity if you even with this kind of creativity if you even just to be able to install an atex just to be able to install an atex just to be able to install an atex sensor with the satellite uplink and sensor with the satellite uplink and sensor with the satellite uplink and works on a battery works on a battery works on a battery I literally it's just one site visit and I literally it's just one site visit and I literally it's just one site visit and one installation which is expensive but one installation which is expensive but one installation which is expensive but yeah if it lasts for 10 years yeah yeah yeah if it lasts for 10 years yeah yeah yeah if it lasts for 10 years yeah yeah absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely absolutely dude I saw your email about Santa Clara dude I saw your email about Santa Clara dude I saw your email about Santa Clara I'm sorry I haven't replied to you I'm sorry I haven't replied to you I'm sorry I haven't replied to you I don't know if I can make I've got a I don't know if I can make I've got a I don't know if I can make I've got a deal in Vegas which will be more around deal in Vegas which will be more around deal in Vegas which will be more around building property Tech stuff oh nice building property Tech stuff oh nice building property Tech stuff oh nice next week then I'm gonna go to uh with next week then I'm gonna go to uh with next week then I'm gonna go to uh with you may you guys know uh Ryan Prosser is you may you guys know uh Ryan Prosser is you may you guys know uh Ryan Prosser is the CEO at very he does a podcast an iot the CEO at very he does a podcast an iot the CEO at very he does a podcast an iot podcast podcast podcast um anyway he and I are going to this um anyway he and I are going to this um anyway he and I are going to this event in Vegas and so you know all the event in Vegas and so you know all the event in Vegas and so you know all the things you can imagine around building things you can imagine around building things you can imagine around building Energy Management all that kind of stuff Energy Management all that kind of stuff Energy Management all that kind of stuff HVAC lighting blah blah blah HVAC lighting blah blah blah HVAC lighting blah blah blah um so that's at Mandalay Bay next week um so that's at Mandalay Bay next week um so that's at Mandalay Bay next week and then and then the week after that and then and then the week after that and then and then the week after that the U.S governments flying me to Pearl the U.S governments flying me to Pearl the U.S governments flying me to Pearl Harbor to go brief Harbor to go brief Harbor to go brief uh the commander or Pacific Fleet and a

uh the commander or Pacific Fleet and a uh the commander or Pacific Fleet and a bunch of four star Admirals on emerging bunch of four star Admirals on emerging bunch of four star Admirals on emerging technology which is yeah yeah no I know it's weird being in yeah yeah no I know it's weird being in a military advisor I do stuff like this a military advisor I do stuff like this a military advisor I do stuff like this three times a year three times a year three times a year and so nice and so it's it's very and so nice and so it's it's very and so nice and so it's it's very different and it's framed differently different and it's framed differently different and it's framed differently than what we talk about here it's than what we talk about here it's than what we talk about here it's basically how I use these emerging basically how I use these emerging basically how I use these emerging Technologies to enhance warfighting Technologies to enhance warfighting Technologies to enhance warfighting capabilities for the US Military it seems like it's almost a reverse it seems like it's almost a reverse right because a lot of what the right because a lot of what the right because a lot of what the commercial sector or you know yeah that commercial sector or you know yeah that commercial sector or you know yeah that uses a lot of it is originates from uses a lot of it is originates from uses a lot of it is originates from military you know and um military you know and um military you know and um yeah this whole cots thing I mean it's yeah this whole cots thing I mean it's yeah this whole cots thing I mean it's been in the military uh you know for a been in the military uh you know for a been in the military uh you know for a long time right long time right long time right um people consumer off the shelf yeah um people consumer off the shelf yeah um people consumer off the shelf yeah yeah so making that transition looking yeah so making that transition looking yeah so making that transition looking at you know what the commercial sector at you know what the commercial sector at you know what the commercial sector is doing with Technologies and bringing is doing with Technologies and bringing is doing with Technologies and bringing yeah down of stuff but the a lot of the yeah down of stuff but the a lot of the yeah down of stuff but the a lot of the the technologies that the commercial the technologies that the commercial the technologies that the commercial sector is using are sector is using are sector is using are adaptations of what uh you know comes adaptations of what uh you know comes adaptations of what uh you know comes out of DARPA right and all the dod out of DARPA right and all the dod out of DARPA right and all the dod projects you know I I always thought projects you know I I always thought projects you know I I always thought that that was kind of like a really that that was kind of like a really that that was kind of like a really funny funny funny thing they spend a lot of money and then thing they spend a lot of money and then thing they spend a lot of money and then people trash the military for being like people trash the military for being like people trash the military for being like old school and not Innovative it's like

old school and not Innovative it's like old school and not Innovative it's like wait a minute these guys fund all the wait a minute these guys fund all the wait a minute these guys fund all the great stuff yeah no that are the great stuff yeah no that are the great stuff yeah no that are the foundations of all the cool things that foundations of all the cool things that foundations of all the cool things that you know uh the the yeah the you know uh the the yeah the you know uh the the yeah the quote-unquote tech companies uh do yeah quote-unquote tech companies uh do yeah quote-unquote tech companies uh do yeah military and NASA you know a lot of the military and NASA you know a lot of the military and NASA you know a lot of the Innovations come out of there because Innovations come out of there because Innovations come out of there because they spend a lot of money and they feel they spend a lot of money and they feel they spend a lot of money and they feel stress stress stress you know when you're feeling stressed to you know when you're feeling stressed to you know when you're feeling stressed to do something that's when most Innovation do something that's when most Innovation do something that's when most Innovation happens not when things are comfortable happens not when things are comfortable happens not when things are comfortable and nice and so uh that's true and so and nice and so uh that's true and so and nice and so uh that's true and so yeah so you know without talking about yeah so you know without talking about yeah so you know without talking about exactly what because obviously it's exactly what because obviously it's exactly what because obviously it's classified but you know we'll talk about classified but you know we'll talk about classified but you know we'll talk about some of the same Technologies we talked some of the same Technologies we talked some of the same Technologies we talked about here about here about here but we frame it differently how would but we frame it differently how would but we frame it differently how would you use some of these Technologies in a you use some of these Technologies in a you use some of these Technologies in a war fighting scenario against an war fighting scenario against an war fighting scenario against an adversary and also just as important adversary and also just as important adversary and also just as important how might an adversary use that same how might an adversary use that same how might an adversary use that same technology or how might they thwart your technology or how might they thwart your technology or how might they thwart your use of the technology you know we can use of the technology you know we can use of the technology you know we can sit here and talk about Laura and 5G and sit here and talk about Laura and 5G and sit here and talk about Laura and 5G and it's going to be awesome on the it's going to be awesome on the it's going to be awesome on the battlefield but your opponent battlefield but your opponent battlefield but your opponent might have the ability to jam those might have the ability to jam those might have the ability to jam those frequencies and yeah like render them frequencies and yeah like render them frequencies and yeah like render them useless useless useless and then all of a sudden this cool thing and then all of a sudden this cool thing and then all of a sudden this cool thing you created it doesn't work anymore you you created it doesn't work anymore you you created it doesn't work anymore you know right I mean that's like on the Fly real right I mean that's like on the Fly real time time time you know Scrappy Innovation that's

you know Scrappy Innovation that's you know Scrappy Innovation that's happening you know on both sides you happening you know on both sides you happening you know on both sides you know I think early on know I think early on know I think early on um Russia was using um Jammers to jam um Russia was using um Jammers to jam um Russia was using um Jammers to jam the and disable drones do you you know the and disable drones do you you know the and disable drones do you you know the Ukrainian drones right and which the Ukrainian drones right and which the Ukrainian drones right and which were pretty successful early on in the were pretty successful early on in the were pretty successful early on in the conflict and so they had to they had to conflict and so they had to they had to conflict and so they had to they had to figure out ways to adapt uh the um the figure out ways to adapt uh the um the figure out ways to adapt uh the um the drones to I I don't know what the drones to I I don't know what the drones to I I don't know what the solution was but it's frequency hopping solution was but it's frequency hopping solution was but it's frequency hopping it's different frequencies if you're it's different frequencies if you're it's different frequencies if you're jamming this frequency you need to go to jamming this frequency you need to go to jamming this frequency you need to go to a different one a different one a different one this is just right out of Star Trek yeah this is just right out of Star Trek yeah this is just right out of Star Trek yeah and all of a sudden they need to and all of a sudden they need to and all of a sudden they need to penetrate the deflector Shields and the penetrate the deflector Shields and the penetrate the deflector Shields and the they had to go to it they had remember they had to go to it they had remember they had to go to it they had remember they had to go through some weird they had to go through some weird they had to go through some weird frequency to get through a deflector frequency to get through a deflector frequency to get through a deflector Shield yeah it's all coming together Shield yeah it's all coming together Shield yeah it's all coming together it's all starts with sci-fi it's all starts with sci-fi it's all starts with sci-fi this is like Star Wars too right you this is like Star Wars too right you this is like Star Wars too right you know know know you have to wait for tractor beams and you have to wait for tractor beams and you have to wait for tractor beams and Hollow decks you know absolutely have Hollow decks you know absolutely have Hollow decks you know absolutely have you been watching Picard the season you been watching Picard the season you been watching Picard the season three of Picard no I haven't watched it three of Picard no I haven't watched it three of Picard no I haven't watched it it's good it's good it's good it's good it's good it's good yeah Star Trek guy yeah Star Trek guy yeah Star Trek guy sure yeah vinky are you where where is sure yeah vinky are you where where is sure yeah vinky are you where where is it no I'm not I'm not I think I'm sorry it no I'm not I'm not I think I'm sorry it no I'm not I'm not I think I'm sorry I think well I think it's through I think well I think it's through I think well I think it's through Paramount yeah Paramount yeah Paramount yeah I I see it through my Amazon Prime yeah

I I see it through my Amazon Prime yeah I I see it through my Amazon Prime yeah um and so uh yeah the first two seasons um and so uh yeah the first two seasons um and so uh yeah the first two seasons were okay you know just a lot of were okay you know just a lot of were okay you know just a lot of nostalgia for Next Generation crew from nostalgia for Next Generation crew from nostalgia for Next Generation crew from the 90s but this one this season's the 90s but this one this season's the 90s but this one this season's pretty hardcore it's pretty good pretty hardcore it's pretty good pretty hardcore it's pretty good um so yeah no it's good it's good um so yeah no it's good it's good um so yeah no it's good it's good absolutely yeah I watched that after a absolutely yeah I watched that after a absolutely yeah I watched that after a succession then yeah succession's good succession then yeah succession's good succession then yeah succession's good that's good that's good that's good that's awesome stuff man for sure but so that's awesome stuff man for sure but so that's awesome stuff man for sure but so so so so what's so so so what's so so so what's um uh so are you doing a lot of um uh so are you doing a lot of um uh so are you doing a lot of conferences conferences conferences um so so what what are the kind of what um so so what what are the kind of what um so so what what are the kind of what what's the what's the what's the what's the next next thing do you what's the next next thing do you what's the next next thing do you believe I I are we kind of is everybody believe I I are we kind of is everybody believe I I are we kind of is everybody taking a bit of a backseat on taking a bit of a backseat on taking a bit of a backseat on connectivity 5G connectivity 5G connectivity 5G or kind of like I see some private 5G or kind of like I see some private 5G or kind of like I see some private 5G what's what's the what's the next thing what's what's the what's the next thing what's what's the what's the next thing yeah yeah yeah um I I wrote some stuff about that in my um I I wrote some stuff about that in my um I I wrote some stuff about that in my you know mwc you know mwc you know mwc 2023 yeah summary and Rob Rob and I and 2023 yeah summary and Rob Rob and I and 2023 yeah summary and Rob Rob and I and a bunch of others we we had a couple of a bunch of others we we had a couple of a bunch of others we we had a couple of sessions like Recaps and sessions like Recaps and sessions like Recaps and um um um I I mean the the I I mean the the I I mean the the I think the the whole private 5G stuff I think the the whole private 5G stuff I think the the whole private 5G stuff for industrial I mean I think we talked for industrial I mean I think we talked for industrial I mean I think we talked about this earlier uh in a previous about this earlier uh in a previous about this earlier uh in a previous episode of iot coffee talk episode of iot coffee talk episode of iot coffee talk um it's it's a bit different from um it's it's a bit different from um it's it's a bit different from Enterprise I think there's a lot of Hope Enterprise I think there's a lot of Hope Enterprise I think there's a lot of Hope being injected into Enterprise meaning

being injected into Enterprise meaning being injected into Enterprise meaning like stuff that would be in a campus or like stuff that would be in a campus or like stuff that would be in a campus or in offices indoor uh building type uh in offices indoor uh building type uh in offices indoor uh building type uh things for uh you know a a business I things for uh you know a a business I things for uh you know a a business I think think think um that even I think everyone got really um that even I think everyone got really um that even I think everyone got really excited about that going into mwc model excited about that going into mwc model excited about that going into mwc model impression coming out of it actually impression coming out of it actually impression coming out of it actually going in is like yeah you know I don't going in is like yeah you know I don't going in is like yeah you know I don't think people have really done a great think people have really done a great think people have really done a great job of job of job of um building a case for this stuff you um building a case for this stuff you um building a case for this stuff you know and know and know and um you know we're still bumping into the um you know we're still bumping into the um you know we're still bumping into the same challenges right people getting same challenges right people getting same challenges right people getting excited about stuff taking them excited about stuff taking them excited about stuff taking them marketing hoopla uh getting excited marketing hoopla uh getting excited marketing hoopla uh getting excited about that and then you know six months about that and then you know six months about that and then you know six months time we're gonna find out well wait a time we're gonna find out well wait a time we're gonna find out well wait a minute we didn't really think this stuff minute we didn't really think this stuff minute we didn't really think this stuff through we announced all these through we announced all these through we announced all these Partnerships and all the stuff press Partnerships and all the stuff press Partnerships and all the stuff press releases Galore and we're gonna deliver releases Galore and we're gonna deliver releases Galore and we're gonna deliver on almost none of these things it's like on almost none of these things it's like on almost none of these things it's like it it you know yeah but it it's just it it you know yeah but it it's just it it you know yeah but it it's just getting I don't know man it's just getting I don't know man it's just getting I don't know man it's just getting silly I it's been silly always getting silly I it's been silly always getting silly I it's been silly always been silly but so been silly but so been silly but so change the way we think about stuff but uh so so I was at Hanover Mesa last but uh so so I was at Hanover Mesa last week right now yeah week right now yeah week right now yeah I was I was it's massive so it's like I I was I was it's massive so it's like I I was I was it's massive so it's like I think with regards to a Mobile World think with regards to a Mobile World think with regards to a Mobile World Congress is larger on visitors they are Congress is larger on visitors they are Congress is larger on visitors they are I think larger own exhibitors I think larger own exhibitors I think larger own exhibitors um so in the connectivity all

um so in the connectivity all um so in the connectivity all um I had some discussion with 5G um I had some discussion with 5G um I had some discussion with 5G providers and you just just understand providers and you just just understand providers and you just just understand when talking to the account managers and when talking to the account managers and when talking to the account managers and people on the front end is that they all people on the front end is that they all people on the front end is that they all have their kind of they all bought their have their kind of they all bought their have their kind of they all bought their trophy customers so they all have trophy customers so they all have trophy customers so they all have airport and all of them all airport and all of them all airport and all of them all uh and then if you read it talk about uh and then if you read it talk about uh and then if you read it talk about what are the use cases what are the use cases what are the use cases um and what I'm uh but I also noticing um and what I'm uh but I also noticing um and what I'm uh but I also noticing and it was typically like specifically and it was typically like specifically and it was typically like specifically when I talked at the Nokia stand yeah when I talked at the Nokia stand yeah when I talked at the Nokia stand yeah they they said like we were first I they they said like we were first I they they said like we were first I started that we're going to open up and started that we're going to open up and started that we're going to open up and be more an ecosystem player and build an be more an ecosystem player and build an be more an ecosystem player and build an ecosystem and then when the when a ecosystem and then when the when a ecosystem and then when the when a subject of Wi-Fi arrived they said oh subject of Wi-Fi arrived they said oh subject of Wi-Fi arrived they said oh Wi-Fi is bad and 5G is good that's not Wi-Fi is bad and 5G is good that's not Wi-Fi is bad and 5G is good that's not the idea of an ecosystem a system is a the idea of an ecosystem a system is a the idea of an ecosystem a system is a positive sum game so you were trained positive sum game so you were trained positive sum game so you were trained for 30 years on a zero-sum game because for 30 years on a zero-sum game because for 30 years on a zero-sum game because that's what the Mobile World Congress that's what the Mobile World Congress that's what the Mobile World Congress gsma mindset is is that if you win I gsma mindset is is that if you win I gsma mindset is is that if you win I lose so and all of a sudden they were lose so and all of a sudden they were lose so and all of a sudden they were like oh this is bad and I'm talking like oh this is bad and I'm talking like oh this is bad and I'm talking about Laura I said I said well Wi-Fi is about Laura I said I said well Wi-Fi is about Laura I said I said well Wi-Fi is good because because actually as a good because because actually as a good because because actually as a backhaul in many cases because uh Laura backhaul in many cases because uh Laura backhaul in many cases because uh Laura is even reliability works so the weakest is even reliability works so the weakest is even reliability works so the weakest link will likely not be Wi-Fi it's like link will likely not be Wi-Fi it's like link will likely not be Wi-Fi it's like oh how can you ever sell that I said but oh how can you ever sell that I said but oh how can you ever sell that I said but so so I was like this is you don't you so so I was like this is you don't you so so I was like this is you don't you don't need to be convinced of of an don't need to be convinced of of an don't need to be convinced of of an argument you may need to change a argument you may need to change a argument you may need to change a paradigm because you're just coming from paradigm because you're just coming from paradigm because you're just coming from another world yeah you're entering this another world yeah you're entering this another world yeah you're entering this ecosystem with this gsma mindset you're

ecosystem with this gsma mindset you're ecosystem with this gsma mindset you're never gonna succeed how good your never gonna succeed how good your never gonna succeed how good your product is but that's exactly why I product is but that's exactly why I product is but that's exactly why I mentioned the whole heterogeneous mentioned the whole heterogeneous mentioned the whole heterogeneous protocol technology thing right is protocol technology thing right is protocol technology thing right is especially amongst sis and people who especially amongst sis and people who especially amongst sis and people who are on the hook of for making things are on the hook of for making things are on the hook of for making things delivering things right that rise above delivering things right that rise above delivering things right that rise above all the Techno religion they they see a all the Techno religion they they see a all the Techno religion they they see a very few I'm not saying that's a ton of very few I'm not saying that's a ton of very few I'm not saying that's a ton of them a few of them are starting to say them a few of them are starting to say them a few of them are starting to say hey look there's possibilities here hey look there's possibilities here hey look there's possibilities here there's possibilities here let's just there's possibilities here let's just there's possibilities here let's just create a Gateway and allow us to create create a Gateway and allow us to create create a Gateway and allow us to create a data path through these different a data path through these different a data path through these different protocols to accomplish protocols to accomplish protocols to accomplish um what we we want to accomplish or um what we we want to accomplish or um what we we want to accomplish or enable a new kind of solution that we enable a new kind of solution that we enable a new kind of solution that we can take to our customers so I think can take to our customers so I think can take to our customers so I think that that's that agenda that's that's uh that that's that agenda that's that's uh that that's that agenda that's that's uh you know uh enabling things to rise you know uh enabling things to rise you know uh enabling things to rise above the the various uh Wireless above the the various uh Wireless above the the various uh Wireless technology nominations you know I and technology nominations you know I and technology nominations you know I and yeah and I like going back to what I was yeah and I like going back to what I was yeah and I like going back to what I was saying before I think that's a good saying before I think that's a good saying before I think that's a good thing but it's nascent you know we thing but it's nascent you know we thing but it's nascent you know we subliminally know it subliminally know it subliminally know it um in the bubbles it's just that we um in the bubbles it's just that we um in the bubbles it's just that we won't recognize it for exactly the won't recognize it for exactly the won't recognize it for exactly the reasons why you just mentioned right reasons why you just mentioned right reasons why you just mentioned right it's and you know what to our religion it's and you know what to our religion it's and you know what to our religion yeah and well you know what the ironic yeah and well you know what the ironic yeah and well you know what the ironic thing is is that they they actually said thing is is that they they actually said thing is is that they they actually said with Nokia the reason I changed their with Nokia the reason I changed their with Nokia the reason I changed their logo logo logo uh is they they've made the letters open

uh is they they've made the letters open uh is they they've made the letters open so the brand value is openness right but so the brand value is openness right but so the brand value is openness right but that doesn't mean that you have to that doesn't mean that you have to that doesn't mean that you have to re-educate all your people actually re-educate all your people actually re-educate all your people actually when you're at a stand not not actually when you're at a stand not not actually when you're at a stand not not actually start to Batman Wi-Fi start to Batman Wi-Fi start to Batman Wi-Fi but actually to say it all it doesn't but actually to say it all it doesn't but actually to say it all it doesn't really matter because uh the the correct really matter because uh the the correct really matter because uh the the correct answer should have been educated in is answer should have been educated in is answer should have been educated in is that you know what that you know what that you know what my Mac runs kubernetes and you can my Mac runs kubernetes and you can my Mac runs kubernetes and you can actually like put a Wi-Fi management actually like put a Wi-Fi management actually like put a Wi-Fi management platform in our Mac yeah because platform in our Mac yeah because platform in our Mac yeah because actually we have the most compute in our actually we have the most compute in our actually we have the most compute in our core and it's a very efficient kind of core and it's a very efficient kind of core and it's a very efficient kind of I.T infrastructure so I.T infrastructure so I.T infrastructure so and and I I I'm really curious if kind and and I I I'm really curious if kind and and I I I'm really curious if kind of companies like Nokia and Erickson can of companies like Nokia and Erickson can of companies like Nokia and Erickson can pivot that Paradigm in their Workforce pivot that Paradigm in their Workforce pivot that Paradigm in their Workforce to be able to understand that they're to be able to understand that they're to be able to understand that they're basically becoming I.T suppliers and not basically becoming I.T suppliers and not basically becoming I.T suppliers and not kind of old boys club Telco supplier so kind of old boys club Telco supplier so kind of old boys club Telco supplier so right right right I'm really curious if they can make that I'm really curious if they can make that I'm really curious if they can make that that move and of course Erickson bought that move and of course Erickson bought that move and of course Erickson bought the Cradle points so they should have the Cradle points so they should have the Cradle points so they should have some of that yeah but they become an I.T some of that yeah but they become an I.T some of that yeah but they become an I.T companies they were coming out there companies they were coming out there companies they were coming out there but if you talk to somebody kind of like but if you talk to somebody kind of like but if you talk to somebody kind of like the the 90 of the workforce probably the the 90 of the workforce probably the the 90 of the workforce probably they don't understand their I.T they don't understand their I.T they don't understand their I.T companies yet well I I I'm really companies yet well I I I'm really companies yet well I I I'm really curious curious curious I guess it would be as easy as making a I guess it would be as easy as making a I guess it would be as easy as making a uh a Patriots fan become a uh Dallas uh a Patriots fan become a uh Dallas uh a Patriots fan become a uh Dallas Cowboys fan

Cowboys fan Cowboys fan you know I mean yeah seriously you know I mean yeah seriously you know I mean yeah seriously um now that I think about it that's um now that I think about it that's um now that I think about it that's really what it boils down to is people really what it boils down to is people really what it boils down to is people it's just this sort of techno tribalism really right everywhere yeah you know really right everywhere yeah you know because thank you librarian I always because thank you librarian I always because thank you librarian I always felt like a contrarian but I'm always felt like a contrarian but I'm always felt like a contrarian but I'm always I'm always on the side of familiarity I'm always on the side of familiarity I'm always on the side of familiarity and things that everyone already knows and things that everyone already knows and things that everyone already knows and comfortable with and comfortable with and comfortable with oftentimes we'll win and so I know this oftentimes we'll win and so I know this oftentimes we'll win and so I know this is this is old news but for the last two is this is old news but for the last two is this is old news but for the last two decades every company on the planet has decades every company on the planet has decades every company on the planet has been putting Wi-Fi access points all been putting Wi-Fi access points all been putting Wi-Fi access points all over their buildings and that's what over their buildings and that's what over their buildings and that's what people use indoors they use it at the people use indoors they use it at the people use indoors they use it at the office they use it at the coffee shop office they use it at the coffee shop office they use it at the coffee shop they use it everywhere they use it everywhere they use it everywhere yeah and it's crazy backwards compatible yeah and it's crazy backwards compatible yeah and it's crazy backwards compatible that's that's just yes one thing it is that's that's just yes one thing it is that's that's just yes one thing it is and probably they they have to fight for and probably they they have to fight for and probably they they have to fight for this heart and they had to yeah this heart and they had to yeah this heart and they had to yeah but their backwards compatibility of but their backwards compatibility of but their backwards compatibility of Wi-Fi is insane it's insane it's insane Wi-Fi is insane it's insane it's insane Wi-Fi is insane it's insane it's insane and so the idea this whole push to rip and so the idea this whole push to rip and so the idea this whole push to rip out Wi-Fi and put in private 5G out Wi-Fi and put in private 5G out Wi-Fi and put in private 5G that's such a that's like climbing Mount that's such a that's like climbing Mount that's such a that's like climbing Mount Everest you it's so hard it's just you Everest you it's so hard it's just you Everest you it's so hard it's just you do it you'll probably pay the customer do it you'll probably pay the customer do it you'll probably pay the customer to do it just so you can have a press to do it just so you can have a press to do it just so you can have a press release to say somebody did it finally release to say somebody did it finally release to say somebody did it finally well you know what's a press release I well you know what's a press release I well you know what's a press release I don't recall but I uh the name or the don't recall but I uh the name or the don't recall but I uh the name or the company but there recently was a press company but there recently was a press company but there recently was a press release where where a vendor was touting

release where where a vendor was touting release where where a vendor was touting that is that uh their customer ripped that is that uh their customer ripped that is that uh their customer ripped out Wi-Fi and just put in out Wi-Fi and just put in out Wi-Fi and just put in um 5G private I'm sorry yeah I said I was I'll think I'm sorry yeah I said I was I'll think about the outcome remember remember it's about the outcome remember remember it's about the outcome remember remember it's like Steve Jobs says start with a like Steve Jobs says start with a like Steve Jobs says start with a customer experience and then work back customer experience and then work back customer experience and then work back towards the technology what is the towards the technology what is the towards the technology what is the outcome the customer wants they want but outcome the customer wants they want but outcome the customer wants they want but when they're indoors they want data and when they're indoors they want data and when they're indoors they want data and they might want to make calls yeah and they might want to make calls yeah and they might want to make calls yeah and so that's the outcome you're looking for so that's the outcome you're looking for so that's the outcome you're looking for what what are ways to achieve that well what what are ways to achieve that well what what are ways to achieve that well they're already getting way faster data they're already getting way faster data they're already getting way faster data on Wi-Fi than they can ever get with on Wi-Fi than they can ever get with on Wi-Fi than they can ever get with cellular way faster like Wi-Fi 60 is cellular way faster like Wi-Fi 60 is cellular way faster like Wi-Fi 60 is tremendously faster Wi-Fi 7 is going to tremendously faster Wi-Fi 7 is going to tremendously faster Wi-Fi 7 is going to be 30 gigabit cellular will never even be 30 gigabit cellular will never even be 30 gigabit cellular will never even come close to catching that but what's come close to catching that but what's come close to catching that but what's the other part I want to make a phone the other part I want to make a phone the other part I want to make a phone call when I'm deep inside the building call when I'm deep inside the building call when I'm deep inside the building and my son you know I only have I'm and my son you know I only have I'm and my son you know I only have I'm starting you know we sell those starting you know we sell those starting you know we sell those struggles deep inside the building so struggles deep inside the building so struggles deep inside the building so what have we seen people use over the what have we seen people use over the what have we seen people use over the years we see them do those Daz antennas years we see them do those Daz antennas years we see them do those Daz antennas yeah you know that cost like three yeah you know that cost like three yeah you know that cost like three million dollars to beam cellular inside million dollars to beam cellular inside million dollars to beam cellular inside the building we've seen that and and the building we've seen that and and the building we've seen that and and it's expensive but you know what else it's expensive but you know what else it's expensive but you know what else you can do that just works you can do that just works you can do that just works Wi-Fi calling yeah there's ways there's Wi-Fi calling yeah there's ways there's Wi-Fi calling yeah there's ways there's ways with today's modern uh Wi-Fi we ways with today's modern uh Wi-Fi we ways with today's modern uh Wi-Fi we every operator has that in the every operator has that in the every operator has that in the Netherlands as yeah

Netherlands as yeah Netherlands as yeah problem solved problem not getting problem solved problem not getting problem solved problem not getting solved but I'm curious what's what's solved but I'm curious what's what's solved but I'm curious what's what's going to happen with like private 5G going to happen with like private 5G going to happen with like private 5G because I just you see the kind of the because I just you see the kind of the because I just you see the kind of the Nokia and inside on Hacker News Today is Nokia and inside on Hacker News Today is Nokia and inside on Hacker News Today is like how to build your uh LTE uh how to like how to build your uh LTE uh how to like how to build your uh LTE uh how to do your own LTE and I think this yeah do your own LTE and I think this yeah do your own LTE and I think this yeah see that and yeah it only was like two see that and yeah it only was like two see that and yeah it only was like two thousand dollars uh here in Europe it's thousand dollars uh here in Europe it's thousand dollars uh here in Europe it's very Troublesome because we didn't don't very Troublesome because we didn't don't very Troublesome because we didn't don't have cbrs have cbrs have cbrs um so then you just could in the US um so then you just could in the US um so then you just could in the US you're connected to the to the SAS like you're connected to the to the SAS like you're connected to the to the SAS like the central registry and also kind of the central registry and also kind of the central registry and also kind of it's an API that kind of the military it's an API that kind of the military it's an API that kind of the military wants you to shut down your network they wants you to shut down your network they wants you to shut down your network they can literally press a button and then can literally press a button and then can literally press a button and then you you it will kind of kind of the you you it will kind of kind of the you you it will kind of kind of the system will turn off the network system will turn off the network system will turn off the network and um it works on your iPhone and and I and um it works on your iPhone and and I and um it works on your iPhone and and I think it even works with some e-sims um think it even works with some e-sims um think it even works with some e-sims um these tutorials with uh specific Sim but these tutorials with uh specific Sim but these tutorials with uh specific Sim but I think if there's going to be some I think if there's going to be some I think if there's going to be some innovation in niches you need you need innovation in niches you need you need innovation in niches you need you need these kind of platforms these kind of platforms these kind of platforms oh yeah you start start playing around oh yeah you start start playing around oh yeah you start start playing around with it but then again it's not what you with it but then again it's not what you with it but then again it's not what you said Rob it's not about the work from said Rob it's not about the work from said Rob it's not about the work from the outcome backwards it's it's a the outcome backwards it's it's a the outcome backwards it's it's a technology push but at least it's like a technology push but at least it's like a technology push but at least it's like a developer push so you you have a massive developer push so you you have a massive developer push so you you have a massive spread yeah well you know what you you spread yeah well you know what you you spread yeah well you know what you you touched on something that's really touched on something that's really touched on something that's really um um um important uh that the Spectrum important uh that the Spectrum important uh that the Spectrum availability availability availability um and so I I did talk to a few vendors um and so I I did talk to a few vendors um and so I I did talk to a few vendors uh at mwc and I brought that up and they

uh at mwc and I brought that up and they uh at mwc and I brought that up and they go yeah go yeah go yeah um so the market is not going to be as um so the market is not going to be as um so the market is not going to be as big as everyone thinks because they you big as everyone thinks because they you big as everyone thinks because they you know in the US we have cbrs which is know in the US we have cbrs which is know in the US we have cbrs which is shared Spectrum it's not unlicensed shared Spectrum it's not unlicensed shared Spectrum it's not unlicensed um and I I talked to the guys at Verizon um and I I talked to the guys at Verizon um and I I talked to the guys at Verizon at the NAB show they're doing some at the NAB show they're doing some at the NAB show they're doing some interesting stuff with uh private uh LTE interesting stuff with uh private uh LTE interesting stuff with uh private uh LTE okay cellular okay but even uh the uh okay cellular okay but even uh the uh okay cellular okay but even uh the uh you know for the application that they you know for the application that they you know for the application that they were looking at which is basically coach were looking at which is basically coach were looking at which is basically coach to coach communication to be able to to coach communication to be able to to coach communication to be able to have a dedicated Network to enable like have a dedicated Network to enable like have a dedicated Network to enable like Communications on the field between like Communications on the field between like Communications on the field between like the coaches and the players and stuff the coaches and the players and stuff the coaches and the players and stuff like that uh that required the NFL to do like that uh that required the NFL to do like that uh that required the NFL to do a lot of negotiation in other words a lot of negotiation in other words a lot of negotiation in other words hiring a bunch of lawyers and to to work hiring a bunch of lawyers and to to work hiring a bunch of lawyers and to to work with Regulators to to use a cbrs with Regulators to to use a cbrs with Regulators to to use a cbrs spectrum uh for this particular the the spectrum uh for this particular the the spectrum uh for this particular the the you know for this particular application you know for this particular application you know for this particular application and and and um and so when you think about it that um and so when you think about it that um and so when you think about it that whole process of actually negotiating uh whole process of actually negotiating uh whole process of actually negotiating uh access to and use of spectrum access to and use of spectrum access to and use of spectrum is it is a large it's a large cost is it is a large it's a large cost is it is a large it's a large cost actually that goes into actually that goes into actually that goes into um you know in deploying these private um you know in deploying these private um you know in deploying these private networks and this this will be networks and this this will be networks and this this will be problematic because as you look at more problematic because as you look at more problematic because as you look at more of these differentiated type uh

of these differentiated type uh of these differentiated type uh connectivity that connectivity that connectivity that um you know cellular is more let's say um you know cellular is more let's say um you know cellular is more let's say arguably uh more arguably uh more arguably uh more um geared toward um geared toward um geared toward the these are more critical applications the these are more critical applications the these are more critical applications that you're talking about and that means that you're talking about and that means that you're talking about and that means that these applications are not going to that these applications are not going to that these applications are not going to be as you know Plug and Play you know be as you know Plug and Play you know be as you know Plug and Play you know because we heard it all a lot of talk because we heard it all a lot of talk because we heard it all a lot of talk about the easy button oh it's going to about the easy button oh it's going to about the easy button oh it's going to be as easy as Wi-Fi no this is be as easy as Wi-Fi no this is be as easy as Wi-Fi no this is where are you getting this stuff and you where are you getting this stuff and you where are you getting this stuff and you know and so as I'm talking I'm listening know and so as I'm talking I'm listening know and so as I'm talking I'm listening to these vendor product guys and you to these vendor product guys and you to these vendor product guys and you know we're talking about senior level know we're talking about senior level know we're talking about senior level people I'm looking at them going man people I'm looking at them going man people I'm looking at them going man it's like do you even it's like what the it's like do you even it's like what the it's like do you even it's like what the hell are you talking about you know it's hell are you talking about you know it's hell are you talking about you know it's so yeah this stuff is gonna be tough as so yeah this stuff is gonna be tough as so yeah this stuff is gonna be tough as crap you know and you better have a crap you know and you better have a crap you know and you better have a really valuable application to justify really valuable application to justify really valuable application to justify all of this stuff and so you know I all of this stuff and so you know I all of this stuff and so you know I don't know there's going to be a lot of don't know there's going to be a lot of don't know there's going to be a lot of people who uh well maybe two or three people who uh well maybe two or three people who uh well maybe two or three people who listen to this show and go people who listen to this show and go people who listen to this show and go man Leonard you're an for man Leonard you're an for man Leonard you're an for bringing this up but it's the truth bringing this up but it's the truth bringing this up but it's the truth is the reality you're gonna have to deal is the reality you're gonna have to deal is the reality you're gonna have to deal with uh you either deal with it now or with uh you either deal with it now or with uh you either deal with it now or you're gonna deal with it six months you're gonna deal with it six months you're gonna deal with it six months later when you know all the stuff that later when you know all the stuff that later when you know all the stuff that you claim in your press release you claim in your press release you claim in your press release evaporates and this is the US evaporates and this is the US evaporates and this is the US so the US actually it's really open so the US actually it's really open so the US actually it's really open before kind of inclusive whereas and before kind of inclusive whereas and before kind of inclusive whereas and then in Canada they have it in Germany then in Canada they have it in Germany then in Canada they have it in Germany right yeah yeah but it's not everywhere

right yeah yeah but it's not everywhere right yeah yeah but it's not everywhere like there's it's very complicated and like there's it's very complicated and like there's it's very complicated and um so I'm really curious how you would um so I'm really curious how you would um so I'm really curious how you would then you will need to translate it in then you will need to translate it in then you will need to translate it in your SLA as a solution provider as well your SLA as a solution provider as well your SLA as a solution provider as well so if you if the cbrs says we can turn so if you if the cbrs says we can turn so if you if the cbrs says we can turn it off every any time it off every any time it off every any time then I need to also put it in my SLA and then I need to also put it in my SLA and then I need to also put it in my SLA and sell the micros well yeah basically sell the micros well yeah basically sell the micros well yeah basically whatever yeah the government feels like whatever yeah the government feels like whatever yeah the government feels like it they can shut it off okay great okay it they can shut it off okay great okay it they can shut it off okay great okay so I'm not going to commit to kind of so I'm not going to commit to kind of so I'm not going to commit to kind of integrating some kind of Niche solution integrating some kind of Niche solution integrating some kind of Niche solution that meets that low latency that's what that meets that low latency that's what that meets that low latency that's what the the the um microphones um microphones um microphones exactly what you're talking about they exactly what you're talking about they exactly what you're talking about they just said okay you can no longer use just said okay you can no longer use just said okay you can no longer use this uh frequency anymore we're going to this uh frequency anymore we're going to this uh frequency anymore we're going to give it to T-Mobile in the US they did give it to T-Mobile in the US they did give it to T-Mobile in the US they did that in the US jacked up everything all that in the US jacked up everything all that in the US jacked up everything all right crazy yeah right crazy yeah right crazy yeah yeah yeah yeah but you don't see this as an opportunity but you don't see this as an opportunity but you don't see this as an opportunity for companies like McDonald's or for companies like McDonald's or for companies like McDonald's or Starbucks to create fidelitation with Starbucks to create fidelitation with Starbucks to create fidelitation with their customers like giving these their customers like giving these their customers like giving these virtual Sim well you can purchase this virtual Sim well you can purchase this virtual Sim well you can purchase this virtual Sim and you get 5G every time virtual Sim and you get 5G every time virtual Sim and you get 5G every time that you get into my shop and then you that you get into my shop and then you that you get into my shop and then you get I don't know discounts or whatever get I don't know discounts or whatever get I don't know discounts or whatever that's actually kind of a cool idea that's actually kind of a cool idea that's actually kind of a cool idea I mean you kind of threw it out there I mean you kind of threw it out there I mean you kind of threw it out there but I mean if there's a you know you can but I mean if there's a you know you can but I mean if there's a you know you can get the cost of uh you know e-sim get the cost of uh you know e-sim get the cost of uh you know e-sim management system down management system down management system down yeah yeah yeah that could be something that works right that could be something that works right that could be something that works right um I mean um I mean um I mean doesn't think a lot of that through I doesn't think a lot of that through I doesn't think a lot of that through I mean I'm sure there's a lot of complex I mean I'm sure there's a lot of complex I mean I'm sure there's a lot of complex I mean for me this at the moment this is

mean for me this at the moment this is mean for me this at the moment this is the only use case I I discovered on the the only use case I I discovered on the the only use case I I discovered on the Mobile World Congress that makes sense Mobile World Congress that makes sense Mobile World Congress that makes sense on these uh you know give connectivity on these uh you know give connectivity on these uh you know give connectivity to mobile phones I still don't see it to mobile phones I still don't see it to mobile phones I still don't see it for iot devices for iot devices for iot devices that can yeah better added value than that can yeah better added value than that can yeah better added value than L'Oreal lp1 Technologies L'Oreal lp1 Technologies L'Oreal lp1 Technologies yeah yeah yeah yeah but putting up yeah putting up a 3 yeah but putting up yeah putting up a 3 yeah but putting up yeah putting up a 3 000 private 5G base station you know it's like what what Rob was you know it's like what what Rob was saying earlier saying earlier saying earlier um I mean um I mean um I mean Wi-Fi is already familiar what familiar Wi-Fi is already familiar what familiar Wi-Fi is already familiar what familiar means market share mind share the means market share mind share the means market share mind share the devices Rob said that uh 100 episodes ago Rob said that uh 100 episodes ago no no no [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] yeah but you know what where I mean yes yeah but you know what where I mean yes yeah but you know what where I mean yes NWA thing I think is really cool NWA thing I think is really cool NWA thing I think is really cool um it's it's a good use of um it's it's a good use of um it's it's a good use of um of 5G Spectrum especially for those um of 5G Spectrum especially for those um of 5G Spectrum especially for those that bought a ton of millimeter wave and that bought a ton of millimeter wave and that bought a ton of millimeter wave and can't find a way of using it uh I think can't find a way of using it uh I think can't find a way of using it uh I think about the Verizon obviously they just about the Verizon obviously they just about the Verizon obviously they just found their quarterly report just came found their quarterly report just came found their quarterly report just came out and it's bad out and it's bad out and it's bad but the only bright spot was fixed but the only bright spot was fixed but the only bright spot was fixed wireless access I had growth they had

wireless access I had growth they had wireless access I had growth they had growth and fixed wireless access with 5G growth and fixed wireless access with 5G growth and fixed wireless access with 5G even though they lost lots of even though they lost lots of even though they lost lots of subscribers and had a horrible quarter subscribers and had a horrible quarter subscribers and had a horrible quarter at T had a horrible quarter as well at T had a horrible quarter as well at T had a horrible quarter as well really yeah yeah okay some people yeah really yeah yeah okay some people yeah really yeah yeah okay some people yeah and it was okay one Telco didn't have a and it was okay one Telco didn't have a and it was okay one Telco didn't have a horrible quarter yeah good point good horrible quarter yeah good point good horrible quarter yeah good point good point that's a horrible means but um point that's a horrible means but um point that's a horrible means but um yeah I mean T-Mobile is definitely yeah I mean T-Mobile is definitely yeah I mean T-Mobile is definitely killing it and you know killing it and you know killing it and you know but you know that's an example of I mean but you know that's an example of I mean but you know that's an example of I mean if you look at the CP what do you have if you look at the CP what do you have if you look at the CP what do you have you have basically the the you have basically the the you have basically the the um um um I mean effectively into the home of 5G I mean effectively into the home of 5G I mean effectively into the home of 5G back haul coming in and then all the back haul coming in and then all the back haul coming in and then all the devices connected to Wi-Fi for the most devices connected to Wi-Fi for the most devices connected to Wi-Fi for the most part right and and you know part right and and you know part right and and you know um rob you you you're spot on with the um rob you you you're spot on with the um rob you you you're spot on with the Wi-Fi the the thing about Wi-Fi is the Wi-Fi the the thing about Wi-Fi is the Wi-Fi the the thing about Wi-Fi is the the Uplink performances is killer so if the Uplink performances is killer so if the Uplink performances is killer so if it it can be symmetrical right it it can be symmetrical right it it can be symmetrical right really irritate really irritate really irritate just to really irritate all you Wireless just to really irritate all you Wireless just to really irritate all you Wireless people out there do you know what people out there do you know what people out there do you know what Wireless is made out of Wireless is made out of Wireless is made out of wires wires wires and so so when you're inside a building of any so when you're inside a building of any kind what's hiding behind that really kind what's hiding behind that really kind what's hiding behind that really fast Wi-Fi fast Wi-Fi fast Wi-Fi even faster ethernet yeah even faster ethernet yeah even faster ethernet yeah 10 gigabit Ethernet yeah you just with 10 gigabit Ethernet yeah you just with 10 gigabit Ethernet yeah you just with Cat6 cables going through the building

Cat6 cables going through the building Cat6 cables going through the building and fiber optics and fiber optics and fiber optics you just can't compete with that right you just can't compete with that right you just can't compete with that right you know what Rob just crapped all over you know what Rob just crapped all over you know what Rob just crapped all over iot iot iot no no no no no no listen listen Wireless hey all of us listen listen Wireless hey all of us listen listen Wireless hey all of us who've been in the iot space for a long who've been in the iot space for a long who've been in the iot space for a long time and we've been all these projects time and we've been all these projects time and we've been all these projects what did we've seen time and again why what did we've seen time and again why what did we've seen time and again why I'm not saying it's right yeah but most I'm not saying it's right yeah but most I'm not saying it's right yeah but most customers think of Wireless as a customers think of Wireless as a customers think of Wireless as a commodity commodity commodity they just think of Wireless connectivity they just think of Wireless connectivity they just think of Wireless connectivity as a commodity to choose from they never as a commodity to choose from they never as a commodity to choose from they never think of it like when you think oh this think of it like when you think oh this think of it like when you think oh this is the most critical decision you're is the most critical decision you're is the most critical decision you're going to make is what Wireless going to make is what Wireless going to make is what Wireless customers at least in my experience it's customers at least in my experience it's customers at least in my experience it's like the last thing they think about like the last thing they think about like the last thing they think about it really is it sucks and sometimes it it really is it sucks and sometimes it it really is it sucks and sometimes it bites them in the butt because they made bites them in the butt because they made bites them in the butt because they made the wrong choice but they're focused the wrong choice but they're focused the wrong choice but they're focused more on devices the software the outcome more on devices the software the outcome more on devices the software the outcome the reports the automation that's what the reports the automation that's what the reports the automation that's what they think about they think of Wireless they think about they think of Wireless they think about they think of Wireless just some invisible thing that's magic just some invisible thing that's magic just some invisible thing that's magic you know and so uh yeah it's it's and you know and so uh yeah it's it's and you know and so uh yeah it's it's and two people are just like oh and so I get two people are just like oh and so I get two people are just like oh and so I get really pragmatic about it in the same really pragmatic about it in the same really pragmatic about it in the same way I'm pragmatic about saying you're way I'm pragmatic about saying you're way I'm pragmatic about saying you're just going to keep using Wi-Fi in just going to keep using Wi-Fi in just going to keep using Wi-Fi in buildings buildings buildings iot I'm the same way I'm in a building iot I'm the same way I'm in a building iot I'm the same way I'm in a building it means I have electricity I'm in a it means I have electricity I'm in a it means I have electricity I'm in a building it means I have Wi-Fi or I have building it means I have Wi-Fi or I have building it means I have Wi-Fi or I have ethernet I'm gonna use it I'm gonna use ethernet I'm gonna use it I'm gonna use ethernet I'm gonna use it I'm gonna use the power that's there for my devices the power that's there for my devices the power that's there for my devices and I'm gonna piggyback on top of Wi-Fi and I'm gonna piggyback on top of Wi-Fi and I'm gonna piggyback on top of Wi-Fi or ethernet if it's there why wouldn't I

or ethernet if it's there why wouldn't I or ethernet if it's there why wouldn't I yeah yeah yeah why wouldn't I it's cheaper it's already why wouldn't I it's cheaper it's already why wouldn't I it's cheaper it's already there use it there use it there use it you know you know you know sorry sorry sorry so I don't know I don't know yeah but but what we see is we we have yeah but but what we see is we we have yeah but but what we see is we we have uh have a developer device which is it's uh have a developer device which is it's uh have a developer device which is it's called the think sport indoor Gateway called the think sport indoor Gateway called the think sport indoor Gateway it's not our device it's a partner but it's not our device it's a partner but it's not our device it's a partner but we we promote it because we wanted to we we promote it because we wanted to we we promote it because we wanted to have a kind of easy to install have a kind of easy to install have a kind of easy to install um uh Wi-Fi development Gateway and we um uh Wi-Fi development Gateway and we um uh Wi-Fi development Gateway and we explicitly say don't use it for explicitly say don't use it for explicitly say don't use it for production right it's great during production right it's great during production right it's great during Corona it was awesome it was 17 you Corona it was awesome it was 17 you Corona it was awesome it was 17 you could have your whole setup in Morrowind could have your whole setup in Morrowind could have your whole setup in Morrowind in your office for kind of including in your office for kind of including in your office for kind of including node in under 150 dollars node in under 150 dollars node in under 150 dollars but now we see them people using that in but now we see them people using that in but now we see them people using that in the field exactly for that argument that the field exactly for that argument that the field exactly for that argument that you gave Rob is good it's there right you gave Rob is good it's there right you gave Rob is good it's there right and then if this is so easy to install and then if this is so easy to install and then if this is so easy to install it's so easy to not have to draw any it's so easy to not have to draw any it's so easy to not have to draw any kind of uh wires you you end up with kind of uh wires you you end up with kind of uh wires you you end up with with accepting that it has the quality with accepting that it has the quality with accepting that it has the quality of service of Wi-Fi but it also have the of service of Wi-Fi but it also have the of service of Wi-Fi but it also have the ease of installation and uh and all the ease of installation and uh and all the ease of installation and uh and all the benefits so benefits so benefits so yeah I mean it's really hard to kind of yeah I mean it's really hard to kind of yeah I mean it's really hard to kind of Envision a future where where 5G is Envision a future where where 5G is Envision a future where where 5G is going to be anything going to be anything going to be anything competing to Wi-Fi in in any way or form competing to Wi-Fi in in any way or form competing to Wi-Fi in in any way or form it's just a heart it's just a heart it's just a heart yeah it's just hard way to imagine yeah it's just hard way to imagine yeah it's just hard way to imagine um you're right but you know you see the um you're right but you know you see the um you're right but you know you see the possibilities when you uh you become

possibilities when you uh you become possibilities when you uh you become non-religious about stuff right non-religious about stuff right non-religious about stuff right non-tribal about stuff and that that's non-tribal about stuff and that that's non-tribal about stuff and that that's the problem everyone is rival but uh I I the problem everyone is rival but uh I I the problem everyone is rival but uh I I think you know uh the the role of the think you know uh the the role of the think you know uh the the role of the iot plumber the guy who basically has to iot plumber the guy who basically has to iot plumber the guy who basically has to go or the person or the guy or gal has go or the person or the guy or gal has go or the person or the guy or gal has to go out in the field and make to go out in the field and make to go out in the field and make happen happen happen um give them the power you know uh allow um give them the power you know uh allow um give them the power you know uh allow them to make the decision on how they them to make the decision on how they them to make the decision on how they Stitch things together uh to make stuff Stitch things together uh to make stuff Stitch things together uh to make stuff uh happen and break down uh you know uh happen and break down uh you know uh happen and break down uh you know these yeah it just reminds me of like these yeah it just reminds me of like these yeah it just reminds me of like when I was uh running teams back in the when I was uh running teams back in the when I was uh running teams back in the day and you had these different team day and you had these different team day and you had these different team members just uh it was like members just uh it was like members just uh it was like you know they had all these different you know they had all these different you know they had all these different team affinities oh I'm team Microsoft team affinities oh I'm team Microsoft team affinities oh I'm team Microsoft I'm team Oracle I'm and having to just I'm team Oracle I'm and having to just I'm team Oracle I'm and having to just figure out how to get these these guys figure out how to get these these guys figure out how to get these these guys to think outside of their uh particular to think outside of their uh particular to think outside of their uh particular you know team Affinity you know it's you know team Affinity you know it's you know team Affinity you know it's tough but you know that I think that's tough but you know that I think that's tough but you know that I think that's why like within an Enterprise or why like within an Enterprise or why like within an Enterprise or organization the role of the architect organization the role of the architect organization the role of the architect is important right not just usually is important right not just usually is important right not just usually developers are problematic because they developers are problematic because they developers are problematic because they have some sort of you know have some sort of you know have some sort of you know techno-religious Affinity uh that's techno-religious Affinity uh that's techno-religious Affinity uh that's oftentimes problematic it's just and oftentimes problematic it's just and oftentimes problematic it's just and Leonard Leonard Leonard that's why you have to turn off Affinity that's why you have to turn off Affinity that's why you have to turn off Affinity on your load balancer and go stateless there you go you know freaking genius

there you go you know freaking genius you know it's just off the hook yeah yeah um you know the good news like going um you know the good news like going um you know the good news like going back to what I said before the good the back to what I said before the good the back to what I said before the good the good news is good news is good news is there's a lot of possibilities the thing there's a lot of possibilities the thing there's a lot of possibilities the thing that limits us is that limits us is that limits us is are the way we think and what we believe are the way we think and what we believe are the way we think and what we believe you know what hey so while I'm talking you know what hey so while I'm talking you know what hey so while I'm talking about Wi-Fi and crazy things like about Wi-Fi and crazy things like about Wi-Fi and crazy things like ethernet cables ethernet cables ethernet cables you know it's a really hot thing I've you know it's a really hot thing I've you know it's a really hot thing I've learned recently in the whole building learned recently in the whole building learned recently in the whole building space doing iot and buildings is that space doing iot and buildings is that space doing iot and buildings is that power over ethernet is actually getting power over ethernet is actually getting power over ethernet is actually getting some traction we used to use it just to some traction we used to use it just to some traction we used to use it just to extend a place where it didn't have extend a place where it didn't have extend a place where it didn't have electricity well now if you can do power electricity well now if you can do power electricity well now if you can do power over ethernet for so many end points over ethernet for so many end points over ethernet for so many end points inside a building and so you have a Poe inside a building and so you have a Poe inside a building and so you have a Poe enabled switch you've got your high enabled switch you've got your high enabled switch you've got your high speed you know 10 gigabit circuit coming speed you know 10 gigabit circuit coming speed you know 10 gigabit circuit coming into the building you have your power into the building you have your power into the building you have your power breathing out switches and now you're breathing out switches and now you're breathing out switches and now you're extending your ethernet cable your Cat6 extending your ethernet cable your Cat6 extending your ethernet cable your Cat6 cables and it's powering your Wi-Fi cables and it's powering your Wi-Fi cables and it's powering your Wi-Fi access points because they're Poe access points because they're Poe access points because they're Poe enabled yeah there's a there's a hotel enabled yeah there's a there's a hotel enabled yeah there's a there's a hotel in the Fort Worth area where they in the Fort Worth area where they in the Fort Worth area where they retrofit an old hotel every light in retrofit an old hotel every light in retrofit an old hotel every light in every room is actually power over every room is actually power over every room is actually power over ethernet I heard that as well yeah and ethernet I heard that as well yeah and ethernet I heard that as well yeah and they're finding way but the light is they're finding way but the light is they're finding way but the light is powered by power over even right yeah

yes it's low voltage so it saves yes it's low voltage so it saves electricity Energy savings and so this electricity Energy savings and so this electricity Energy savings and so this whole idea of going power over ethernet whole idea of going power over ethernet whole idea of going power over ethernet for everything in a building at least for everything in a building at least for everything in a building at least what I've been reading is the Energy what I've been reading is the Energy what I've been reading is the Energy savings could be 30 Energy savings which savings could be 30 Energy savings which savings could be 30 Energy savings which is a big deal for for the cost of is a big deal for for the cost of is a big deal for for the cost of running a building yeah yeah there was running a building yeah yeah there was running a building yeah yeah there was this kind of a building here in this kind of a building here in this kind of a building here in Amsterdam called The Edge and was like Amsterdam called The Edge and was like Amsterdam called The Edge and was like it was built with this kind of like it was built with this kind of like it was built with this kind of like what's the future building with all the what's the future building with all the what's the future building with all the latest technology it was built like I latest technology it was built like I latest technology it was built like I think 10 years ago and as as far as I think 10 years ago and as as far as I think 10 years ago and as as far as I remember they went all in on power over remember they went all in on power over remember they went all in on power over ethernet uh because they were building ethernet uh because they were building ethernet uh because they were building the building from scratch everything was the building from scratch everything was the building from scratch everything was power over easy yeah literally power over easy yeah literally power over easy yeah literally everything everything everything and um and um and um uh so it just it it gets like full uh so it just it it gets like full uh so it just it it gets like full control full data and full power and and control full data and full power and and control full data and full power and and um yeah a ton of stuff in your kind of um yeah a ton of stuff in your kind of um yeah a ton of stuff in your kind of like uh I mean like like almost like uh I mean like like almost like uh I mean like like almost everything in the office can run on on everything in the office can run on on everything in the office can run on on 12 volts for instance so yeah um so it's 12 volts for instance so yeah um so it's 12 volts for instance so yeah um so it's all it's all DC direct current power all it's all DC direct current power all it's all DC direct current power instead of AC power it's very cool it's instead of AC power it's very cool it's instead of AC power it's very cool it's very cool stuff so definitely something very cool stuff so definitely something very cool stuff so definitely something to look at and you know what um what to look at and you know what um what to look at and you know what um what you're bringing up Rob is similar to you're bringing up Rob is similar to you're bringing up Rob is similar to what uh you know it's sort of that what uh you know it's sort of that what uh you know it's sort of that trade-off that uh that uh folks face trade-off that uh that uh folks face trade-off that uh that uh folks face with fwa right with fwa right with fwa right [Music] [Music] [Music] um because you know everyone said oh um because you know everyone said oh um because you know everyone said oh it's going to replace it's going to replace it's going to replace um fiber it's like well no you still um fiber it's like well no you still um fiber it's like well no you still need fiber but um you know need fiber but um you know need fiber but um you know long term the the operating expenses is

long term the the operating expenses is long term the the operating expenses is especially in terms of energy for especially in terms of energy for especially in terms of energy for wireless is higher than fiber fiber is wireless is higher than fiber fiber is wireless is higher than fiber fiber is cheap once you get it in the ground cheap once you get it in the ground cheap once you get it in the ground round right and you have it routed into round right and you have it routed into round right and you have it routed into whatever a home or a building or whatever a home or a building or whatever a home or a building or whatever it it's much cheaper whatever it it's much cheaper whatever it it's much cheaper radio is expensive to run I mean the radio is expensive to run I mean the radio is expensive to run I mean the energy uh consumption is very high energy uh consumption is very high energy uh consumption is very high comparatively speaking and so in the comparatively speaking and so in the comparatively speaking and so in the long term uh you know it kind of long term uh you know it kind of long term uh you know it kind of balances out but balances out but balances out but um you know if you can get um you know if you can get um you know if you can get wired built in and uh wired built in and uh wired built in and uh that that's that's you know your first that that's that's you know your first that that's that's you know your first option should always be your number one option should always be your number one option should always be your number one like why it should always be your first like why it should always be your first like why it should always be your first option yeah the only thing is if you option yeah the only thing is if you option yeah the only thing is if you look at buildings uh if you look at if look at buildings uh if you look at if look at buildings uh if you look at if we look at 30 years ahead like in we look at 30 years ahead like in we look at 30 years ahead like in 2015 uh 80 of the buildings that are 2015 uh 80 of the buildings that are 2015 uh 80 of the buildings that are standing at that moment are already standing at that moment are already standing at that moment are already built right now built right now built right now that means that the kind of luxury of that means that the kind of luxury of that means that the kind of luxury of kind of doing this from the ground up kind of doing this from the ground up kind of doing this from the ground up and in Greenfield opportunity to think and in Greenfield opportunity to think and in Greenfield opportunity to think of smart clear building through is only of smart clear building through is only of smart clear building through is only there for 20 of the market in 30 years there for 20 of the market in 30 years there for 20 of the market in 30 years right everything else is after market right everything else is after market right everything else is after market yeah and and yeah and and yeah and and um and and that is that is basically um and and that is that is basically um and and that is that is basically where where kind of the so it is all where where kind of the so it is all where where kind of the so it is all aftermarket retro fitting aftermarket retro fitting aftermarket retro fitting [Music] [Music] [Music] um um um uh and and I mean going back to the 5G

uh and and I mean going back to the 5G uh and and I mean going back to the 5G argument where when we see that the argument where when we see that the argument where when we see that the on-premise part and the building party on-premise part and the building party on-premise part and the building party that is a 5G Niche that is a 5G Niche that is a 5G Niche um um um yeah that could there could be an yeah that could there could be an yeah that could there could be an opportunity opportunity opportunity um uh there are there as well maybe but um uh there are there as well maybe but um uh there are there as well maybe but um yeah it's basically where we see the um yeah it's basically where we see the um yeah it's basically where we see the majority of our markets to to people majority of our markets to to people majority of our markets to to people that's a great Point yeah so we're that's a great Point yeah so we're that's a great Point yeah so we're living in an aftermarket car stereo living in an aftermarket car stereo living in an aftermarket car stereo environment yeah environment yeah environment yeah Brown yeah so we don't have we don't Brown yeah so we don't have we don't Brown yeah so we don't have we don't have like also kind of friends if you have like also kind of friends if you have like also kind of friends if you look at the CO2 emissions of concrete or look at the CO2 emissions of concrete or look at the CO2 emissions of concrete or we we need to either refurbish you're in we we need to either refurbish you're in we we need to either refurbish you're in the Netherlands already it's like really the Netherlands already it's like really the Netherlands already it's like really hard to build buildings because of the hard to build buildings because of the hard to build buildings because of the emission kind of regulations and and emission kind of regulations and and emission kind of regulations and and it's literally kind of uh like they're it's literally kind of uh like they're it's literally kind of uh like they're they're our regional discard like they're our regional discard like they're our regional discard like Regional decisions are we gonna close a Regional decisions are we gonna close a Regional decisions are we gonna close a farm with a thousand cows or are we farm with a thousand cows or are we farm with a thousand cows or are we going to build an apartment complex but going to build an apartment complex but going to build an apartment complex but we can do both right so we can do both right so we can do both right so um save the cows um save the cows um save the cows save the cows save the farmer save the cows save the farmer save the cows save the farmer yeah I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll inform you yeah I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll inform you yeah I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll inform you on that on on the on this insanely I read the news on this insanely I read the news I saw that that news bit as well uh I saw that that news bit as well uh I saw that that news bit as well uh let's see what's happening and we cannot

let's see what's happening and we cannot let's see what's happening and we cannot even imagine ourselves how insanely even imagine ourselves how insanely even imagine ourselves how insanely amount of kind of button great I amount of kind of button great I amount of kind of button great I actually have to go now yeah all right actually have to go now yeah all right actually have to go now yeah all right I'll have to go I'll have to go I'll have to go okay if I hop off now then then is it okay if I hop off now then then is it okay if I hop off now then then is it okay yeah no we're done yeah hey check okay yeah no we're done yeah hey check okay yeah no we're done yeah hey check us out us out us out let's take us out rob you do it you let's take us out rob you do it you let's take us out rob you do it you haven't done it a long time haven't done it a long time haven't done it a long time thank you so much for joining iot coffee thank you so much for joining iot coffee thank you so much for joining iot coffee talk with our multinational talk with our multinational talk with our multinational you know hosts here from all over the you know hosts here from all over the you know hosts here from all over the place you're getting the full spectrum place you're getting the full spectrum place you're getting the full spectrum you're getting contrarian stuff we're you're getting contrarian stuff we're you're getting contrarian stuff we're not drinking the gsma Kool-Aid all the not drinking the gsma Kool-Aid all the not drinking the gsma Kool-Aid all the time at least time at least time at least um anyway you know we're like we're um anyway you know we're like we're um anyway you know we're like we're we're here every week check us out on we're here every week check us out on we're here every week check us out on IMT coffee talk.com come to the YouTube IMT coffee talk.com come to the YouTube IMT coffee talk.com come to the YouTube page page page ring that Bell you can listen to our ring that Bell you can listen to our ring that Bell you can listen to our podcast anywhere where you get podcasts podcast anywhere where you get podcasts podcast anywhere where you get podcasts we're everywhere all the time in your we're everywhere all the time in your we're everywhere all the time in your face and we have the top electric face and we have the top electric face and we have the top electric guitarists in the industry Here For Your guitarists in the industry Here For Your guitarists in the industry Here For Your Entertainment pleasure all the time so Entertainment pleasure all the time so Entertainment pleasure all the time so we will see you next week and we are out we will see you next week and we are out we will see you next week and we are out [Music]