IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 264 - "POC & Pilot PTSD (Knowing when to FAFO)"

Yeah. Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. And Yeah. Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. And what happened to my video? I don't know. what happened to my video? I don't know. what happened to my video? I don't know. It's fine over here. Oh, okay. It looks It's fine over here. Oh, okay. It looks It's fine over here. Oh, okay. It looks horrible over here. I'm living in a horrible over here. I'm living in a horrible over here. I'm living in a digital divide. digital divide. digital divide. [ __ ] Yeah. No, seriously. Um I still [ __ ] Yeah. No, seriously. Um I still [ __ ] Yeah. No, seriously. Um I still get um get um get um satellite uh connectivity on my phone satellite uh connectivity on my phone satellite uh connectivity on my phone because of provider, dude. Seriously, because of provider, dude. Seriously, because of provider, dude. Seriously, they're on low band. Even though I um they're on low band. Even though I um they're on low band. Even though I um the icon says 5G, the icon says 5G, the icon says 5G, uh I uh I uh I get no G. How's that? How's that? Not OG, but no G. No, it is certainly Not OG, but no G. No, it is certainly Not OG, but no G. No, it is certainly not. Well, you know, it could be the not. Well, you know, it could be the not. Well, you know, it could be the OG 1G, right? That's G. Yes, OG is OG 1G, right? That's G. Yes, OG is OG 1G, right? That's G. Yes, OG is that's that's that's uh no data, no nothing, no connectivity have the rabbit ears. But connectivity have the rabbit ears. But uh hey everyone, um take us seriously at uh hey everyone, um take us seriously at uh hey everyone, um take us seriously at your own risk, especially this episode your own risk, especially this episode your own risk, especially this episode because it's just because it's just because it's just uh Bill Bill and me. Yeah. And uh this uh Bill Bill and me. Yeah. And uh this uh Bill Bill and me. Yeah. And uh this is going to be this is going to be good, is going to be this is going to be good, is going to be this is going to be good, you know. Um, sometimes these like two you know. Um, sometimes these like two you know. Um, sometimes these like two people sessions are really cool. You people sessions are really cool. You people sessions are really cool. You know, we I've had a couple really good know, we I've had a couple really good know, we I've had a couple really good ones with uh um with Rob, just the two ones with uh um with Rob, just the two ones with uh um with Rob, just the two of us, and then Rob's had some um with of us, and then Rob's had some um with of us, and then Rob's had some um with some some of our other cast members, and

some some of our other cast members, and some some of our other cast members, and they've been good. You know, sometimes they've been good. You know, sometimes they've been good. You know, sometimes it's nice to have the smaller group, but it's nice to have the smaller group, but it's nice to have the smaller group, but what's been going on, my brother? We got what's been going on, my brother? We got what's been going on, my brother? We got to start with to start with to start with [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] Yeah. Oh my god. Hell yeah. So, is that Yeah. Oh my god. Hell yeah. So, is that Yeah. Oh my god. Hell yeah. So, is that your real business? Are you telling us your real business? Are you telling us your real business? Are you telling us that there is no money in IoT? But you that there is no money in IoT? But you that there is no money in IoT? But you got to tap that ass. You're got to tap that ass. You're got to tap that ass. You're just You're killing it with t-shirts, just You're killing it with t-shirts, just You're killing it with t-shirts, right? right? right? I'm telling you. Oh my god. I'm telling I'm telling you. Oh my god. I'm telling I'm telling you. Oh my god. I'm telling you, man. This is I mean I I heard All you, man. This is I mean I I heard All you, man. This is I mean I I heard All right. So, look. We we will it's going right. So, look. We we will it's going right. So, look. We we will it's going to be a repeated thing throughout until to be a repeated thing throughout until to be a repeated thing throughout until until January 1, 2026, but this is until January 1, 2026, but this is until January 1, 2026, but this is indeed the year across the board of FA indeed the year across the board of FA indeed the year across the board of FA and FO. No matter what, you're seeing it and FO. No matter what, you're seeing it and FO. No matter what, you're seeing it left and right in every space you can left and right in every space you can left and right in every space you can think of. Yeah, it's it's the case. So, think of. Yeah, it's it's the case. So, think of. Yeah, it's it's the case. So, I'm like I'm like, well, look, uh I I'm like I'm like, well, look, uh I I'm like I'm like, well, look, uh I heard heard heard I heard a couple of my buddies, right? A I heard a couple of my buddies, right? A I heard a couple of my buddies, right? A couple of my buddies, they're still couple of my buddies, they're still couple of my buddies, they're still single and and they're like, you know, single and and they're like, you know, single and and they're like, you know, they're like, "Dude, if I wore the they're like, "Dude, if I wore the they're like, "Dude, if I wore the t-shirts that you wore, I'd never get a t-shirts that you wore, I'd never get a t-shirts that you wore, I'd never get a woman." I was like, "You got to be woman." I was like, "You got to be woman." I was like, "You got to be kidding me. You got to be [ __ ] kidding me. You got to be [ __ ] kidding me. You got to be [ __ ] kidding me." I'm like I'm like, "Look, kidding me." I'm like I'm like, "Look, kidding me." I'm like I'm like, "Look, the the girls don't like graphic TE's."

the the girls don't like graphic TE's." the the girls don't like graphic TE's." I'm like, "I don't give a what they I'm like, "I don't give a what they I'm like, "I don't give a what they like. I like it." Yeah. I like it. I'm a like. I like it." Yeah. I like it. I'm a like. I like it." Yeah. I like it. I'm a grown ass man. I do what I want to do. grown ass man. I do what I want to do. grown ass man. I do what I want to do. Ah, Ah, Ah, no. You know what I'm saying? It's uh no. You know what I'm saying? It's uh no. You know what I'm saying? It's uh actually the FAFO thing is actually a actually the FAFO thing is actually a actually the FAFO thing is actually a pretty good one. It's pretty funny. I If pretty good one. It's pretty funny. I If pretty good one. It's pretty funny. I If you took it on a on a date, you know, you took it on a on a date, you know, you took it on a on a date, you know, you had that shirt and you went out you had that shirt and you went out you had that shirt and you went out Oh, baby. I go out I go out with I go Oh, baby. I go out I go out with I go Oh, baby. I go out I go out with I go out with my wife, man. And and and I'm out with my wife, man. And and and I'm out with my wife, man. And and and I'm wearing those things. I I'm telling you, wearing those things. I I'm telling you, wearing those things. I I'm telling you, I It's not going to stop. It's only I It's not going to stop. It's only I It's not going to stop. It's only going to It's only It's only going to going to It's only It's only going to going to It's only It's only going to get worse. It is. It is. I get I get as get worse. It is. It is. I get I get as get worse. It is. It is. I get I get as close to the edge. Yes. Ladies and close to the edge. Yes. Ladies and close to the edge. Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, it just gets worse with age. gentlemen, it just gets worse with age. gentlemen, it just gets worse with age. You You heard it here on tea coffee You You heard it here on tea coffee You You heard it here on tea coffee talk. Yes. And hey everyone, remember we talk. Yes. And hey everyone, remember we talk. Yes. And hey everyone, remember we do this all for um the um the good of do this all for um the um the good of do this all for um the um the good of the kids. Yeah. In underserved and the kids. Yeah. In underserved and the kids. Yeah. In underserved and unserved communities. Yes. There are unserved communities. Yes. There are unserved communities. Yes. There are still a lot of those out there. And so still a lot of those out there. And so still a lot of those out there. And so please uh have a kind heart and donate please uh have a kind heart and donate please uh have a kind heart and donate to Elevator Kids at to Elevator Kids at to Elevator Kids at www.elevatorids.org. It's a great www.elevatorids.org. It's a great www.elevatorids.org. It's a great charity tax uh deduction on uh the the charity tax uh deduction on uh the the charity tax uh deduction on uh the the charity donation. You know, it's a great charity donation. You know, it's a great charity donation. You know, it's a great place to make that donation every year.

place to make that donation every year. place to make that donation every year. And so we hope you'll um you know, And so we hope you'll um you know, And so we hope you'll um you know, participate. And you know, if you're not participate. And you know, if you're not participate. And you know, if you're not into charity, but you like fashion, you into charity, but you like fashion, you into charity, but you like fashion, you can pick up all kinds of merch. We have can pick up all kinds of merch. We have can pick up all kinds of merch. We have um IoT coffee talk merch and we also um IoT coffee talk merch and we also um IoT coffee talk merch and we also have Elevate our Kids merch at have Elevate our Kids merch at have Elevate our Kids merch at www.elevatekids.org www.elevatekids.org www.elevatekids.org or and all the proceeds go to the or and all the proceeds go to the or and all the proceeds go to the charity. So, please donate. And um yeah. charity. So, please donate. And um yeah. charity. So, please donate. And um yeah. Um hey, let's let's talk Um hey, let's let's talk Um hey, let's let's talk about I mean, we've talked about pilots about I mean, we've talked about pilots about I mean, we've talked about pilots before, right? We're talking about So, before, right? We're talking about So, before, right? We're talking about So, let let's do this. Let's do something a let let's do this. Let's do something a let let's do this. Let's do something a little bit different on IoT Coffee Talk. little bit different on IoT Coffee Talk. little bit different on IoT Coffee Talk. rather than just like rambling about a rather than just like rambling about a rather than just like rambling about a bunch of the crazy stuff that's been bunch of the crazy stuff that's been bunch of the crazy stuff that's been happening, let's talk about like um what happening, let's talk about like um what happening, let's talk about like um what we think are best practices in we think are best practices in we think are best practices in approaching approaching approaching um clients that um clients that um clients that want a pilot done for whatever, right?

want a pilot done for whatever, right? want a pilot done for whatever, right? Whether it's a smart city initiative or Whether it's a smart city initiative or Whether it's a smart city initiative or anything else related to IoT, right? And anything else related to IoT, right? And anything else related to IoT, right? And then maybe we can um look at it from then maybe we can um look at it from then maybe we can um look at it from both sides of the coin, right? one as both sides of the coin, right? one as both sides of the coin, right? one as like a solution or service provider or like a solution or service provider or like a solution or service provider or SI and the other from the perspective SI and the other from the perspective SI and the other from the perspective of a of a of a uh a a customer, right? and an uh a a customer, right? and an uh a a customer, right? and an organization that wants to organization that wants to organization that wants to uh explore how this grow you know uh explore how this grow you know uh explore how this grow you know constantly morphing range of constantly morphing range of constantly morphing range of technologies can present some value technologies can present some value technologies can present some value whether it's the innovation side of whether it's the innovation side of whether it's the innovation side of things or just improvement of existing things or just improvement of existing things or just improvement of existing processes uh explore those types of processes uh explore those types of processes uh explore those types of opportunities and what some of those opportunities and what some of those opportunities and what some of those best practices are so why don't we do best practices are so why don't we do best practices are so why don't we do that you know instead of like bringing that you know instead of like bringing that you know instead of like bringing you you know, talking about like AI and you you know, talking about like AI and you you know, talking about like AI and doomsday and all that other stuff that doomsday and all that other stuff that doomsday and all that other stuff that Rob loves to talk about these days. Rob loves to talk about these days. Rob loves to talk about these days. I mean, you know what I think I think I mean, you know what I think I think I mean, you know what I think I think it's I mean, I think there's enough it's I mean, I think there's enough it's I mean, I think there's enough fatigue around the whole AI fatigue around the whole AI fatigue around the whole AI conversation, period. Right. I mean, conversation, period. Right. I mean, conversation, period. Right. I mean, people are hearing people don't know people are hearing people don't know people are hearing people don't know what's what. So, yeah, let's let's uh what's what. So, yeah, let's let's uh what's what. So, yeah, let's let's uh give that a timeout and let's address give that a timeout and let's address give that a timeout and let's address the you know, some of those things that the you know, some of those things that the you know, some of those things that are forward moving, right? So, I mean, are forward moving, right? So, I mean, are forward moving, right? So, I mean, almost every company experiences it, almost every company experiences it, almost every company experiences it, right? You know, you've got a you've got right? You know, you've got a you've got right? You know, you've got a you've got a solution, you want to get the solution a solution, you want to get the solution a solution, you want to get the solution out there, you want to gain that out there, you want to gain that out there, you want to gain that adoption and everything. And whether adoption and everything. And whether adoption and everything. And whether you're working with a city, you're working with a city, you're working with a city, municipality, B2B, B TOC, it doesn't

municipality, B2B, B TOC, it doesn't municipality, B2B, B TOC, it doesn't matter. People are going to say, you matter. People are going to say, you matter. People are going to say, you know, hey, well, I mean, do you have a know, hey, well, I mean, do you have a know, hey, well, I mean, do you have a freebie? Do you have a trial? Do you freebie? Do you have a trial? Do you freebie? Do you have a trial? Do you have Yeah, but hey, dude, before we even have Yeah, but hey, dude, before we even have Yeah, but hey, dude, before we even get there, let's let's clarify because get there, let's let's clarify because get there, let's let's clarify because you know what? I've actually recently you know what? I've actually recently you know what? I've actually recently been in some conversations where folks been in some conversations where folks been in some conversations where folks are wondering what do you mean by a are wondering what do you mean by a are wondering what do you mean by a pilot? What is a pilot? Right? Cuz we we pilot? What is a pilot? Right? Cuz we we pilot? What is a pilot? Right? Cuz we we we actually have an episode. So folks, we actually have an episode. So folks, we actually have an episode. So folks, if you don't know, we have an episode if you don't know, we have an episode if you don't know, we have an episode from a long time ago. It might be even 5 from a long time ago. It might be even 5 from a long time ago. It might be even 5 years ago where we talk about pilots, years ago where we talk about pilots, years ago where we talk about pilots, but maybe it's good to revisit the the but maybe it's good to revisit the the but maybe it's good to revisit the the concept. I mean, what the hell is a concept. I mean, what the hell is a concept. I mean, what the hell is a pilot, dude? I mean, I you know what? I pilot, dude? I mean, I you know what? I pilot, dude? I mean, I you know what? I don't I don't think that the the don't I don't think that the the don't I don't think that the the cleanest definition is a pilot is a cleanest definition is a pilot is a cleanest definition is a pilot is a limited time example of something limited time example of something limited time example of something something that you and your customer something that you and your customer something that you and your customer agree on, right? I mean, you you would agree on, right? I mean, you you would agree on, right? I mean, you you would have I mean, but the the whole thing have I mean, but the the whole thing have I mean, but the the whole thing about it is that what's not often about it is that what's not often about it is that what's not often covered. So, we say that that's that's covered. So, we say that that's that's covered. So, we say that that's that's what it is. And that could be anything.

what it is. And that could be anything. what it is. And that could be anything. Let's let's look at the smart grid uh Let's let's look at the smart grid uh Let's let's look at the smart grid uh space. You're going to say, "Well, we'll space. You're going to say, "Well, we'll space. You're going to say, "Well, we'll do a 5,000 meter pilot." So, we're going do a 5,000 meter pilot." So, we're going do a 5,000 meter pilot." So, we're going to put up the infrastructure. You're to put up the infrastructure. You're to put up the infrastructure. You're we're going to give you 5,000 meters. we're going to give you 5,000 meters. we're going to give you 5,000 meters. And now comes the waiting game because And now comes the waiting game because And now comes the waiting game because you got to put them up. You got to run you got to put them up. You got to run you got to put them up. You got to run it. You got to show that the meters got it. You got to show that the meters got it. You got to show that the meters got red. You got to show all of these other red. You got to show all of these other red. You got to show all of these other security measures and everything else security measures and everything else security measures and everything else has to be there. And you kind of have to has to be there. And you kind of have to has to be there. And you kind of have to live up to whatever SLA you're going to live up to whatever SLA you're going to live up to whatever SLA you're going to you're going to live up to. Yeah. That's you're going to live up to. Yeah. That's you're going to live up to. Yeah. That's on the that's on that side. on the on on the that's on that side. on the on on the that's on that side. on the on other sides. Well, you know, for other sides. Well, you know, for other sides. Well, you know, for connectivity and everything like that, connectivity and everything like that, connectivity and everything like that, it depends. Like, you're not going to it depends. Like, you're not going to it depends. Like, you're not going to have a fiber pilot. That's just gonna have a fiber pilot. That's just gonna have a fiber pilot. That's just gonna go. But a wireless a wireless go. But a wireless a wireless go. But a wireless a wireless connectivity pilot. Yeah. You're you're connectivity pilot. Yeah. You're you're connectivity pilot. Yeah. You're you're going to have that. And and again, it going to have that. And and again, it going to have that. And and again, it gets down to sitting down at the table gets down to sitting down at the table gets down to sitting down at the table going, "Okay, so how are we going to going, "Okay, so how are we going to going, "Okay, so how are we going to define this?" Yeah. Okay. So, can I give define this?" Yeah. Okay. So, can I give define this?" Yeah. Okay. So, can I give it a shot? Go ahead. it a shot? Go ahead. it a shot? Go ahead. Okay. Hey, so I used to do a bunch of Okay. Hey, so I used to do a bunch of Okay. Hey, so I used to do a bunch of this [ __ ] long time ago in a galaxy far this [ __ ] long time ago in a galaxy far this [ __ ] long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Um, so let me know if this far away. Um, so let me know if this far away. Um, so let me know if this resonates with you, okay? And I think we resonates with you, okay? And I think we resonates with you, okay? And I think we need to bring PC into the frigin mix as need to bring PC into the frigin mix as need to bring PC into the frigin mix as well. um you know in this galaxy far far well. um you know in this galaxy far far well. um you know in this galaxy far far away. We used to typically when we're away. We used to typically when we're away. We used to typically when we're working with clients off of a strategy working with clients off of a strategy working with clients off of a strategy project, so they're really interested in project, so they're really interested in project, so they're really interested in some kind of new technology or a new some kind of new technology or a new some kind of new technology or a new vendor offering uh as a SI or a vendor offering uh as a SI or a vendor offering uh as a SI or a consultant, we a tech consultant, we go consultant, we a tech consultant, we go consultant, we a tech consultant, we go in and we do um you know an ideation

in and we do um you know an ideation in and we do um you know an ideation project or what have you. part of it uh project or what have you. part of it uh project or what have you. part of it uh would be to build a strategy but then at would be to build a strategy but then at would be to build a strategy but then at at tail end this where we're doing sort at tail end this where we're doing sort at tail end this where we're doing sort of a solution of a solution of a solution um outline right so if this is what what um outline right so if this is what what um outline right so if this is what what you want to explore in terms of uh uh an you want to explore in terms of uh uh an you want to explore in terms of uh uh an outcome or a transformation quote outcome or a transformation quote outcome or a transformation quote unquote transformation unquote transformation unquote transformation uh this in in principle off of this uh this in in principle off of this uh this in in principle off of this particular type of technology or package particular type of technology or package particular type of technology or package software package or what have you this software package or what have you this software package or what have you this is what the solution kind of looks like. is what the solution kind of looks like. is what the solution kind of looks like. So there's an outline and then the PC So there's an outline and then the PC So there's an outline and then the PC you get to a P part um which is proof of you get to a P part um which is proof of you get to a P part um which is proof of concept where you you can do one of two concept where you you can do one of two concept where you you can do one of two things or both right one is a technical things or both right one is a technical things or both right one is a technical P and then the other one is a functional P and then the other one is a functional P and then the other one is a functional PC right and so taking whatever solution PC right and so taking whatever solution PC right and so taking whatever solution you have applying it to your own you have applying it to your own you have applying it to your own business scenarios or even maybe let's business scenarios or even maybe let's business scenarios or even maybe let's say um um you know your processes and say um um you know your processes and say um um you know your processes and your systems uh to prove out whether or your systems uh to prove out whether or your systems uh to prove out whether or not there's a fit of this technology.

not there's a fit of this technology. not there's a fit of this technology. But then through that process, you're But then through that process, you're But then through that process, you're also figuring out, okay, what are the also figuring out, okay, what are the also figuring out, okay, what are the functional gaps? And ideally, you you go functional gaps? And ideally, you you go functional gaps? And ideally, you you go in with an idea of what those functional in with an idea of what those functional in with an idea of what those functional gaps are. Cuz if you've worked with gaps are. Cuz if you've worked with gaps are. Cuz if you've worked with these technology before as a consultant, these technology before as a consultant, these technology before as a consultant, you can spot that working with the you can spot that working with the you can spot that working with the client doing sort of a ASIS or current client doing sort of a ASIS or current client doing sort of a ASIS or current state assessment. state assessment. state assessment. But you know uh really trying to figure But you know uh really trying to figure But you know uh really trying to figure out okay what are those gaps that we out okay what are those gaps that we out okay what are those gaps that we would actually have to address and what would actually have to address and what would actually have to address and what are the flat out this tech cannot do are the flat out this tech cannot do are the flat out this tech cannot do this kind of revelations going through a this kind of revelations going through a this kind of revelations going through a P right and that's why you know it's a P P right and that's why you know it's a P P right and that's why you know it's a P proof of concept but on the technical proof of concept but on the technical proof of concept but on the technical it's also interesting because you're it's also interesting because you're it's also interesting because you're proving out uh feasibility um uh uh from proving out uh feasibility um uh uh from proving out uh feasibility um uh uh from a technical perspective can you this a technical perspective can you this a technical perspective can you this particular technology be supported by particular technology be supported by particular technology be supported by whatever it is that your IT organization whatever it is that your IT organization whatever it is that your IT organization or OT organization has in terms of a a or OT organization has in terms of a a or OT organization has in terms of a a technology or infrastructure stack right technology or infrastructure stack right technology or infrastructure stack right portfolio.

portfolio. portfolio. um does it integrate with XYZ right what um does it integrate with XYZ right what um does it integrate with XYZ right what would it take to do that so that's a P would it take to do that so that's a P would it take to do that so that's a P and the pilot is really you know you and the pilot is really you know you and the pilot is really you know you have a sense of all this stuff but then have a sense of all this stuff but then have a sense of all this stuff but then now you've actually configured maybe a now you've actually configured maybe a now you've actually configured maybe a um uh a pilot um uh a pilot um uh a pilot um configuration or you know um configuration or you know um configuration or you know implementation of a quote unquote implementation of a quote unquote implementation of a quote unquote solution and then now you want to test solution and then now you want to test solution and then now you want to test it out narrowly within your organiz it out narrowly within your organiz it out narrowly within your organiz ganization actually to you know ganization actually to you know ganization actually to you know determine okay what are the change determine okay what are the change determine okay what are the change management factors what are the adoption management factors what are the adoption management factors what are the adoption factors what are the uh what's the factors what are the uh what's the factors what are the uh what's the actual um real business actual um real business actual um real business uh potential of a deployed uh solution uh potential of a deployed uh solution uh potential of a deployed uh solution within your organization so I know that within your organization so I know that within your organization so I know that was long-winded dude but was long-winded dude but was long-winded dude but well you kind of wrapped up you kind of well you kind of wrapped up you kind of well you kind of wrapped up you kind of wrapped a lot of things in into as I'm wrapped a lot of things in into as I'm wrapped a lot of things in into as I'm hearing you kind of wrapped a lot of hearing you kind of wrapped a lot of hearing you kind of wrapped a lot of things into one Right. I mean, no, it it things into one Right. I mean, no, it it things into one Right. I mean, no, it it it it's true, though. It it it's true it it's true, though. It it it's true it it's true, though. It it it's true what you everything that you said is what you everything that you said is what you everything that you said is true. Um but but here's what you know, true. Um but but here's what you know, true. Um but but here's what you know, the end result of those things is one the end result of those things is one the end result of those things is one for the small company that truly just for the small company that truly just for the small company that truly just can't afford to foot the bill for that can't afford to foot the bill for that can't afford to foot the bill for that one first and foremost. So you the the one first and foremost. So you the the one first and foremost. So you the the potential customer are are you know potential customer are are you know potential customer are are you know somewhat responsible for driving some of somewhat responsible for driving some of somewhat responsible for driving some of these small companies out of business.

these small companies out of business. these small companies out of business. Uhhuh. Because what are they going to Uhhuh. Because what are they going to Uhhuh. Because what are they going to do? They're you're going to do one of do? They're you're going to do one of do? They're you're going to do one of two things as a small as a small two things as a small as a small two things as a small as a small company. You're going to you're going to company. You're going to you're going to company. You're going to you're going to go and you're going to align yourself go and you're going to align yourself go and you're going to align yourself with one big, you know, opportunity and with one big, you know, opportunity and with one big, you know, opportunity and they're going to whip saw you all over they're going to whip saw you all over they're going to whip saw you all over the place before you ever land on the place before you ever land on the place before you ever land on something that's going to drive revenue. something that's going to drive revenue. something that's going to drive revenue. Yeah. Okay. Or they're going to Yeah. Okay. Or they're going to Yeah. Okay. Or they're going to customize your [ __ ] so much that you customize your [ __ ] so much that you customize your [ __ ] so much that you don't recognize it at the end and it don't recognize it at the end and it don't recognize it at the end and it doesn't fit anyone else. Yeah. Yeah. So, doesn't fit anyone else. Yeah. Yeah. So, doesn't fit anyone else. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I mean, so here's here's Bill's so I mean, so here's here's Bill's so I mean, so here's here's Bill's advice. advice. advice. All right. All All right. All All right. All right. Don't FA and right. Don't FA and right. Don't FA and FO because all you need to do is look in FO because all you need to do is look in FO because all you need to do is look in the past and see what the past and see what the past and see what happened. Okay? Don't do that. Set happened. Okay? Don't do that. Set happened. Okay? Don't do that. Set yourself up with a plan of attack. All yourself up with a plan of attack. All yourself up with a plan of attack. All right. First and foremost, are pilots a right. First and foremost, are pilots a right. First and foremost, are pilots a thing? Yes, they are. Successful thing? Yes, they are. Successful thing? Yes, they are. Successful companies do them, but they don't do companies do them, but they don't do companies do them, but they don't do them for them for them for free.

free. free. Yeah. Hey, look, and this is what we've Yeah. Hey, look, and this is what we've Yeah. Hey, look, and this is what we've said on IoT Coffee Talk said on IoT Coffee Talk said on IoT Coffee Talk forever, ever, ever. Um I guess the best forever, ever, ever. Um I guess the best forever, ever, ever. Um I guess the best practice for any enterprise practice for any enterprise practice for any enterprise buyer pay for good consulting it's r m r buyer pay for good consulting it's r m r buyer pay for good consulting it's r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m m m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m m m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m r m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m mit r m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m mit r m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m mit r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r risk r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r risk r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r r risk mitigation but you also bring expertise mitigation but you also bring expertise mitigation but you also bring expertise into your house because usually a into your house because usually a into your house because usually a transformation program I mean P pilot is transformation program I mean P pilot is transformation program I mean P pilot is just the that's like step zero, right? just the that's like step zero, right? just the that's like step zero, right? You have the rest of the journey to go You have the rest of the journey to go You have the rest of the journey to go down. If you can figure out someone who down. If you can figure out someone who down. If you can figure out someone who can help you with can help you with can help you with that phase that phase that phase zero, that's golden. And you don't need zero, that's golden. And you don't need zero, that's golden. And you don't need to give them like the entire to give them like the entire to give them like the entire transformation program thingy. Actually, transformation program thingy. Actually, transformation program thingy. Actually, what's good is to have somebody in there what's good is to have somebody in there what's good is to have somebody in there that really knows their stuff that can that really knows their stuff that can that really knows their stuff that can basically pressure test everything along basically pressure test everything along basically pressure test everything along the way. So, let's say that it's a big the way. So, let's say that it's a big the way. So, let's say that it's a big transformation program. You have X transformation program. You have X transformation program. You have X number of SIS in there and vendors. use number of SIS in there and vendors. use number of SIS in there and vendors. use that party to basically keep stuff that party to basically keep stuff that party to basically keep stuff straight. One of the reasons why in my straight. One of the reasons why in my straight. One of the reasons why in my experience um projects, large experience um projects, large experience um projects, large transformation projects fail so much is transformation projects fail so much is transformation projects fail so much is because of politics. And it's usually a because of politics. And it's usually a because of politics. And it's usually a vendor trying to cover their ass and vendor trying to cover their ass and vendor trying to cover their ass and then stick it on someone else. So, if then stick it on someone else. So, if then stick it on someone else. So, if you have a multi- vendor situation, it's you have a multi- vendor situation, it's you have a multi- vendor situation, it's really really toxic to have um you know,

really really toxic to have um you know, really really toxic to have um you know, a vendor and there's more than likely a vendor and there's more than likely a vendor and there's more than likely going to be one or maybe a few of them going to be one or maybe a few of them going to be one or maybe a few of them that basically that basically that basically um try to uh play the politics. I mean, um try to uh play the politics. I mean, um try to uh play the politics. I mean, that that's the other thing that that that's the other thing that that that's the other thing that everyone should learn. everyone should learn. everyone should learn. These transformation projects are if you These transformation projects are if you These transformation projects are if you think your organization is political. No, No, it politics will Hey, the only reason it politics will Hey, the only reason it politics will Hey, the only reason why we say this is because we've been why we say this is because we've been why we say this is because we've been there and there and there and done that. Exactly. And if you haven't done that. Exactly. And if you haven't done that. Exactly. And if you haven't been there and you haven't done that been there and you haven't done that been there and you haven't done that done that, you will not say what we're done that, you will not say what we're done that, you will not say what we're saying right now because this stuff is saying right now because this stuff is saying right now because this stuff is straight up uncomfortable. But but wait straight up uncomfortable. But but wait straight up uncomfortable. But but wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me let me a minute. Wait a minute. Let me let me a minute. Wait a minute. Let me let me You said something that that kind of You said something that that kind of You said something that that kind of that kind of got me there a bit. Oh, no. that kind of got me there a bit. Oh, no. that kind of got me there a bit. Oh, no. I triggered you. Yes. Yes. Yes. You said I triggered you. Yes. Yes. Yes. You said I triggered you. Yes. Yes. Yes. You said get you some good consulting. All right.

get you some good consulting. All right. get you some good consulting. All right. We're going to we're going to call a We're going to we're going to call a We're going to we're going to call a timeout here. have a little have a timeout here. have a little have a timeout here. have a little have a little group huddle here because um you little group huddle here because um you little group huddle here because um you know we got to call the right play. All know we got to call the right play. All know we got to call the right play. All right. Yeah. right. Yeah. right. Yeah. So, a lot of organizations and a lot of So, a lot of organizations and a lot of So, a lot of organizations and a lot of municipalities think they have good municipalities think they have good municipalities think they have good consulting. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now, I just consulting. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now, I just consulting. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now, I just had a conversation and and and because had a conversation and and and because had a conversation and and and because of the piss poor consulting that's been of the piss poor consulting that's been of the piss poor consulting that's been out there, it makes it more difficult on out there, it makes it more difficult on out there, it makes it more difficult on us. Oh, okay. I'm in somewhat of a us. Oh, okay. I'm in somewhat of a us. Oh, okay. I'm in somewhat of a unique position. I've got a consulting unique position. I've got a consulting unique position. I've got a consulting company and I've got a software company. company and I've got a software company. company and I've got a software company. So, I'm, you know, I'm literally like So, I'm, you know, I'm literally like So, I'm, you know, I'm literally like full service. Yeah. I I got both sides full service. Yeah. I I got both sides full service. Yeah. I I got both sides going. But here's the deal, right? A going. But here's the deal, right? A going. But here's the deal, right? A good consultant or a good consulting good consultant or a good consulting good consultant or a good consulting firm is not going to one just deliver firm is not going to one just deliver firm is not going to one just deliver you a a a pretty slide deck. two, you a a a pretty slide deck. two, you a a a pretty slide deck. two, they're not going to have a plethora of they're not going to have a plethora of they're not going to have a plethora of of boutique consultants sitting behind of boutique consultants sitting behind of boutique consultants sitting behind them that really do the work because if them that really do the work because if them that really do the work because if that's the case, why don't you go to that's the case, why don't you go to that's the case, why don't you go to them, right? The I I literally had a them, right? The I I literally had a them, right? The I I literally had a conversation with the municipality and conversation with the municipality and conversation with the municipality and and of course we're going to be and of course we're going to be and of course we're going to be respectful. We won't say who they used, respectful. We won't say who they used, respectful. We won't say who they used, but they said they spent $1.3 million and one, the slide deck wasn't million and one, the slide deck wasn't all that great and was outdated by the all that great and was outdated by the all that great and was outdated by the time they got to use it. Two, the advice

time they got to use it. Two, the advice time they got to use it. Two, the advice and the information that they received and the information that they received and the information that they received did not match the solutions that they did not match the solutions that they did not match the solutions that they were looking to to take advantage of. were looking to to take advantage of. were looking to to take advantage of. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so so Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so so Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so so and I stopped him. I said, "So basically and I stopped him. I said, "So basically and I stopped him. I said, "So basically what you're telling me is what you're telling me is what you're telling me is that that that UFA and FO, let's not do that, people." Yeah. Uh no, let's not do that, people." Yeah. Uh no, and you know, so now that you're opening and you know, so now that you're opening and you know, so now that you're opening up a different can of worms is up a different can of worms is up a different can of worms is qualifying um consultants, right? Um and qualifying um consultants, right? Um and qualifying um consultants, right? Um and advisers, whoever it is that you use as advisers, whoever it is that you use as advisers, whoever it is that you use as a technical adviser. I mean obviously a technical adviser. I mean obviously a technical adviser. I mean obviously they that is a challenging task in and they that is a challenging task in and they that is a challenging task in and of itself but I think yeah it all boils of itself but I think yeah it all boils of itself but I think yeah it all boils down to uh looking at their their down to uh looking at their their down to uh looking at their their backgrounds and making sure that um backgrounds and making sure that um backgrounds and making sure that um whoever is actually brought to the table whoever is actually brought to the table whoever is actually brought to the table has the experience and then you're you has the experience and then you're you has the experience and then you're you know yeah and I've been on the receiving know yeah and I've been on the receiving know yeah and I've been on the receiving end of like uh bad consulting work as end of like uh bad consulting work as end of like uh bad consulting work as well having to manage these large well having to manage these large well having to manage these large programs where literally half of the programs where literally half of the programs where literally half of the politics is to um figure out how to politics is to um figure out how to politics is to um figure out how to deliver against really bad expectations deliver against really bad expectations deliver against really bad expectations that have been set by um uh by somebody that have been set by um uh by somebody that have been set by um uh by somebody else, right? And so getting back to the else, right? And so getting back to the else, right? And so getting back to the politics, the needle that you have to politics, the needle that you have to politics, the needle that you have to thread is how do I deliver, man, I'm thread is how do I deliver, man, I'm thread is how do I deliver, man, I'm it's bringing flashbacks, dude.

it's bringing flashbacks, dude. it's bringing flashbacks, dude. It's this is like disturbing stuff. is It's this is like disturbing stuff. is It's this is like disturbing stuff. is like PS, you know, PTSD type of [ __ ] like PS, you know, PTSD type of [ __ ] like PS, you know, PTSD type of [ __ ] we're doing right now. Yes. But the we're doing right now. Yes. But the we're doing right now. Yes. But the needle that you have to thread is um you needle that you have to thread is um you needle that you have to thread is um you know, delivering with success because know, delivering with success because know, delivering with success because you're you're accountable for that and you're you're accountable for that and you're you're accountable for that and then untangling expectations that are then untangling expectations that are then untangling expectations that are not reasonable. Um you know s such as not reasonable. Um you know s such as not reasonable. Um you know s such as timelines where you know um you have a timelines where you know um you have a timelines where you know um you have a project schedule and then certain tasks project schedule and then certain tasks project schedule and then certain tasks were articulated by someone who has no were articulated by someone who has no were articulated by someone who has no experience in any of the stuff has no experience in any of the stuff has no experience in any of the stuff has no visibility of the technology visibility of the technology visibility of the technology architecture what it takes to actually architecture what it takes to actually architecture what it takes to actually do some of the let's say uh development do some of the let's say uh development do some of the let's say uh development or integration work. uh having to work or integration work. uh having to work or integration work. uh having to work against those expectations or against those expectations or against those expectations or communicating against those it's it's it communicating against those it's it's it communicating against those it's it's it can be really really um challenging but can be really really um challenging but can be really really um challenging but then that I think then that I think then that I think um it it but it's pretty clear actually um it it but it's pretty clear actually um it it but it's pretty clear actually you know what the funny thing is this is you know what the funny thing is this is you know what the funny thing is this is that you the consultant can't just be a that you the consultant can't just be a that you the consultant can't just be a strategy strategy strategy consultant that does the initial you consultant that does the initial you consultant that does the initial you know pitch deck for this stuff that I know pitch deck for this stuff that I know pitch deck for this stuff that I mean let's expand on that one because mean let's expand on that one because mean let's expand on that one because how can you be a strategy consultant if how can you be a strategy consultant if how can you be a strategy consultant if you've never executed you've never executed you've never executed well that's the other problem yeah I well that's the other problem yeah I well that's the other problem yeah I mean if you've you've only done book mean if you've you've only done book mean if you've you've only done book report well see that's why you know report well see that's why you know report well see that's why you know consistently there those have been the

consistently there those have been the consistently there those have been the issues is that when you when you when issues is that when you when you when issues is that when you when you when you adopt a strategy that has been um uh you adopt a strategy that has been um uh you adopt a strategy that has been um uh put together by someone with no put together by someone with no put together by someone with no experience, right? Then you are simply experience, right? Then you are simply experience, right? Then you are simply going to FA and you're going going to FA and you're going going to FA and you're going Yes. And it ain't going to be that Yes. And it ain't going to be that Yes. And it ain't going to be that great. So, um you know, going back to great. So, um you know, going back to great. So, um you know, going back to the function of the P the function of the P the function of the P uh the the again the PC I think is an uh the the again the PC I think is an uh the the again the PC I think is an important validation artifact. Uh it's important validation artifact. Uh it's important validation artifact. Uh it's not something you give out for free. not something you give out for free. not something you give out for free. It's something and we've even mentioned It's something and we've even mentioned It's something and we've even mentioned it before and you know I'd like your it before and you know I'd like your it before and you know I'd like your thoughts on this bill. It's something thoughts on this bill. It's something thoughts on this bill. It's something that is is postdesign, right? You have that is is postdesign, right? You have that is is postdesign, right? You have an idea of what it is that the solution an idea of what it is that the solution an idea of what it is that the solution will be. The PC is simply proving out will be. The PC is simply proving out will be. The PC is simply proving out not only to the architect and the not only to the architect and the not only to the architect and the engineers that hey we can do this and it engineers that hey we can do this and it engineers that hey we can do this and it would uh fulfill some target business would uh fulfill some target business would uh fulfill some target business benefits through its implementation. It benefits through its implementation. It benefits through its implementation. It helps all the stakeholders see that oh helps all the stakeholders see that oh helps all the stakeholders see that oh okay okay okay this can work right there could be value this can work right there could be value this can work right there could be value in implementing this and those in implementing this and those in implementing this and those stakeholders can be technical as well as stakeholders can be technical as well as stakeholders can be technical as well as on the business side right in fact I on the business side right in fact I on the business side right in fact I would say don't make it just a technical would say don't make it just a technical would say don't make it just a technical exercise make it a business exercise as

exercise make it a business exercise as exercise make it a business exercise as well so that um you know these PC's can well so that um you know these PC's can well so that um you know these PC's can demonstrate in simple terms what it is demonstrate in simple terms what it is demonstrate in simple terms what it is the solution can actually do and then the solution can actually do and then the solution can actually do and then also help them understand um the also help them understand um the also help them understand um the technology, right, in lay terms, right? technology, right, in lay terms, right? technology, right, in lay terms, right? Because that's that great opportunity Because that's that great opportunity Because that's that great opportunity for the technology to actually express for the technology to actually express for the technology to actually express itself in terms of value to to business itself in terms of value to to business itself in terms of value to to business stakeholders. stakeholders. stakeholders. No, I I think that's absolutely right. No, I I think that's absolutely right. No, I I think that's absolutely right. Now, the the the key part about that is Now, the the the key part about that is Now, the the the key part about that is um and then then so actually what what um and then then so actually what what um and then then so actually what what you ought to call this uh episode is the you ought to call this uh episode is the you ought to call this uh episode is the anatomy of a deal because that's really anatomy of a deal because that's really anatomy of a deal because that's really what it is. Okay, what it is. Okay, what it is. Okay, that's really what it is, right? Our that's really what it is, right? Our that's really what it is, right? Our vendor friends. Yeah, you have a vendor friends. Yeah, you have a vendor friends. Yeah, you have a prospect. You have a prospect and you're prospect. You have a prospect and you're prospect. You have a prospect and you're going after them. You guys get to the going after them. You guys get to the going after them. You guys get to the table. you're having these conversations table. you're having these conversations table. you're having these conversations and they're saying, "Okay, so tell us and they're saying, "Okay, so tell us and they're saying, "Okay, so tell us about this." Through the telling of about this." Through the telling of about this." Through the telling of here's the problem I'm trying to solve, here's the problem I'm trying to solve, here's the problem I'm trying to solve, hence why you're here. Yeah. Um, now hence why you're here. Yeah. Um, now hence why you're here. Yeah. Um, now tell me about how you're going to apply tell me about how you're going to apply tell me about how you're going to apply your technology to solve my problem.

your technology to solve my problem. your technology to solve my problem. Okay. So, that's the conversation that Okay. So, that's the conversation that Okay. So, that's the conversation that you're having and you're have you're you you're having and you're have you're you you're having and you're have you're you do that dance and then it's down to, do that dance and then it's down to, do that dance and then it's down to, okay, I think I understand everything okay, I think I understand everything okay, I think I understand everything that you guys need to do. Now mind you that you guys need to do. Now mind you that you guys need to do. Now mind you that I'm going to say this that there is that I'm going to say this that there is that I'm going to say this that there is always a level of system integration always a level of system integration always a level of system integration that is going to happen. Now we say that is going to happen. Now we say that is going to happen. Now we say system integration I say customization system integration I say customization system integration I say customization because every organization and company because every organization and company because every organization and company is is different right? I mean Oracle as is is different right? I mean Oracle as is is different right? I mean Oracle as an ERP system gets implemented in other an ERP system gets implemented in other an ERP system gets implemented in other places a million different ways. Oh places a million different ways. Oh places a million different ways. Oh yeah. Oh my god. Okay. So nothing comes yeah. Oh my god. Okay. So nothing comes yeah. Oh my god. Okay. So nothing comes out of the box and just works. So you're out of the box and just works. So you're out of the box and just works. So you're you're down to the point now you're you're down to the point now you're you're down to the point now you're having the conversation about well let's having the conversation about well let's having the conversation about well let's do a small do a small do a small pilot number one out the pilot number one out the pilot number one out the gate nobody gets away gate nobody gets away gate nobody gets away scot-free. So for the for the solution scot-free. So for the for the solution scot-free. So for the for the solution provider, put a dollar value to your provider, put a dollar value to your provider, put a dollar value to your time and your effort. And for the time and your effort. And for the time and your effort. And for the customer side, put some skin in the game customer side, put some skin in the game customer side, put some skin in the game because if you don't really believe that because if you don't really believe that because if you don't really believe that this is going to be the answer for you, this is going to be the answer for you, this is going to be the answer for you, then you shouldn't even embark on a then you shouldn't even embark on a then you shouldn't even embark on a pilot in the first damn place. Oh yeah.

pilot in the first damn place. Oh yeah. pilot in the first damn place. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And again, and make sure you Yeah. Yeah. And again, and make sure you Yeah. Yeah. And again, and make sure you have clear KPIs. Yeah. What are we going have clear KPIs. Yeah. What are we going have clear KPIs. Yeah. What are we going to call success? Oh, and by the way, to call success? Oh, and by the way, to call success? Oh, and by the way, once we execute this and then let's not once we execute this and then let's not once we execute this and then let's not have this in perpetuity. Okay, so the have this in perpetuity. Okay, so the have this in perpetuity. Okay, so the next thing is put a time frame on it and next thing is put a time frame on it and next thing is put a time frame on it and it the time frame needs to align with it the time frame needs to align with it the time frame needs to align with here are the KPIs. The second thing and here are the KPIs. The second thing and here are the KPIs. The second thing and I and you you hit on this, right? The I and you you hit on this, right? The I and you you hit on this, right? The business value of it. So it's a business value of it. So it's a business value of it. So it's a technology that's delivering the technology that's delivering the technology that's delivering the business value. Um now managing business value. Um now managing business value. Um now managing expectations is the key, right? Because expectations is the key, right? Because expectations is the key, right? Because in a number of these transformational in a number of these transformational in a number of these transformational exercises, you can see a path to it exercises, you can see a path to it exercises, you can see a path to it delivering that value, but it doesn't do delivering that value, but it doesn't do delivering that value, but it doesn't do it day one. No, not even. No, not even. it day one. No, not even. No, not even. it day one. No, not even. No, not even. And then going back to like what we were And then going back to like what we were And then going back to like what we were saying before about the the definition saying before about the the definition saying before about the the definition of a pilot, that's a mini of a pilot, that's a mini of a pilot, that's a mini implementation. I mean, let's make sure implementation. I mean, let's make sure implementation. I mean, let's make sure that we understand where it resides that we understand where it resides that we understand where it resides actually on the continuum of delivery.

actually on the continuum of delivery. actually on the continuum of delivery. It's literally after you've configured It's literally after you've configured It's literally after you've configured what you think is a somewhat production what you think is a somewhat production what you think is a somewhat production ready configuration or development. It's ready configuration or development. It's ready configuration or development. It's not hey let's it's not an exploration at not hey let's it's not an exploration at not hey let's it's not an exploration at this point you've already gone through this point you've already gone through this point you've already gone through the PC's you've gone through the design the PC's you've gone through the design the PC's you've gone through the design cycle the build cycle you've tested a cycle the build cycle you've tested a cycle the build cycle you've tested a few things you've integrated some things few things you've integrated some things few things you've integrated some things now to isolated maybe um production now to isolated maybe um production now to isolated maybe um production systems you're about to go and test it systems you're about to go and test it systems you're about to go and test it out in your business so you know this out in your business so you know this out in your business so you know this notion that you're going to ask your notion that you're going to ask your notion that you're going to ask your service provider or your vendor to service provider or your vendor to service provider or your vendor to provide a free pilot is is actually provide a free pilot is is actually provide a free pilot is is actually pretty crazy. So, the word of advice to pretty crazy. So, the word of advice to pretty crazy. So, the word of advice to any buyers out there, don't do it to any buyers out there, don't do it to any buyers out there, don't do it to your vendors, you know, and number one, your vendors, you know, and number one, your vendors, you know, and number one, you're shooting yourself in the foot you're shooting yourself in the foot you're shooting yourself in the foot because you're going to have your because you're going to have your because you're going to have your vendors cutthroat themselves to try to vendors cutthroat themselves to try to vendors cutthroat themselves to try to get your business and then everyone's get your business and then everyone's get your business and then everyone's going to screw up. And we see it time going to screw up. And we see it time going to screw up. And we see it time and time again. So you see all these and time again. So you see all these and time again. So you see all these these seminars about hey you know uh we these seminars about hey you know uh we these seminars about hey you know uh we can help you uh can help you uh can help you uh reduce improve your rate of um of uh reduce improve your rate of um of uh reduce improve your rate of um of uh project success for your digital project success for your digital project success for your digital transformation from 70% failure to transformation from 70% failure to transformation from 70% failure to whatever 50%. Th this is more probably whatever 50%. Th this is more probably whatever 50%. Th this is more probably gerine to the practical stuff that you

gerine to the practical stuff that you gerine to the practical stuff that you guys can do in terms of um mindset as guys can do in terms of um mindset as guys can do in terms of um mindset as well as expectation to foster success, well as expectation to foster success, well as expectation to foster success, right? right? right? Um, yeah, you know. Um, yeah, you know. Um, yeah, you know. Um, yeah. And it's so weird to hear so Um, yeah. And it's so weird to hear so Um, yeah. And it's so weird to hear so many IoT practitioners and, you know, many IoT practitioners and, you know, many IoT practitioners and, you know, friends of ours talk about um, pilots friends of ours talk about um, pilots friends of ours talk about um, pilots and giving it away for free or PC giving and giving it away for free or PC giving and giving it away for free or PC giving it away. Oh, I mean, it away. Oh, I mean, it away. Oh, I mean, look, the the again, the thing about it look, the the again, the thing about it look, the the again, the thing about it is, you know, I've I've have talked to is, you know, I've I've have talked to is, you know, I've I've have talked to some of some of our peers and they've some of some of our peers and they've some of some of our peers and they've said, "Look, we're we're just going to said, "Look, we're we're just going to said, "Look, we're we're just going to do um a free pilot and then it's baked do um a free pilot and then it's baked do um a free pilot and then it's baked into the deployment." And I'm like, you into the deployment." And I'm like, you into the deployment." And I'm like, you got to be kidding me. Yeah. You don't got to be kidding me. Yeah. You don't got to be kidding me. Yeah. You don't get the damn deployment. get the damn deployment. get the damn deployment. Yeah. Now you're in cost recovery mode. Yeah. Now you're in cost recovery mode. Yeah. Now you're in cost recovery mode. So I'm like it's transparency. Look So I'm like it's transparency. Look So I'm like it's transparency. Look customer it is it's going to cost us customer it is it's going to cost us customer it is it's going to cost us both in in infrastructure as well as both in in infrastructure as well as both in in infrastructure as well as labor. So let's geoence this area. We're labor. So let's geoence this area. We're labor. So let's geoence this area. We're going to run the pilot in this area.

going to run the pilot in this area. going to run the pilot in this area. We're going to build it as though we We're going to build it as though we We're going to build it as though we were doing a full deployment. We're just were doing a full deployment. We're just were doing a full deployment. We're just going to shrink it down. So it's like going to shrink it down. So it's like going to shrink it down. So it's like you said, you're doing a full you said, you're doing a full you said, you're doing a full implementation. It's just in a smaller implementation. It's just in a smaller implementation. It's just in a smaller zone. But at the end of it, we're going zone. But at the end of it, we're going zone. But at the end of it, we're going to say this is a to say this is a to say this is a 90-day pilot. Over that 90 days, we're 90-day pilot. Over that 90 days, we're 90-day pilot. Over that 90 days, we're we seek to, you know, show you these we seek to, you know, show you these we seek to, you know, show you these examples. At the end of those 90 days, examples. At the end of those 90 days, examples. At the end of those 90 days, we hit those KPIs. We come back to the we hit those KPIs. We come back to the we hit those KPIs. We come back to the table. We talk about full deployment. And and and you know, deployment. And and and you know, naturally, you know, and so here's the naturally, you know, and so here's the naturally, you know, and so here's the next question. They're going to say, next question. They're going to say, next question. They're going to say, "Well, that that X "Well, that that X "Well, that that X hundredk dollars that I gave you, does hundredk dollars that I gave you, does hundredk dollars that I gave you, does is that applied here?" Well, the smart is that applied here?" Well, the smart is that applied here?" Well, the smart move is Yes. It it is. Yeah. Some I move is Yes. It it is. Yeah. Some I move is Yes. It it is. Yeah. Some I mean, you could Yeah. Yeah. There's a mean, you could Yeah. Yeah. There's a mean, you could Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a million ways you can ski skin there's a million ways you can ski skin there's a million ways you can ski skin that cash. You can, but I mean, I don't that cash. You can, but I mean, I don't that cash. You can, but I mean, I don't want them to feel I don't I never want want them to feel I don't I never want want them to feel I don't I never want my customers to feel like, well, I just my customers to feel like, well, I just my customers to feel like, well, I just gave you gave you gave you 350K and now you're telling me it's 350K and now you're telling me it's 350K and now you're telling me it's going to be 3.5 million.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so it's tricky. I mean, it's not And so it's tricky. I mean, it's not And so it's tricky. I mean, it's not And then also you have what your competition then also you have what your competition then also you have what your competition is doing. So if it's open, you know, is doing. So if it's open, you know, is doing. So if it's open, you know, it's like a a bid situation. Uh then you it's like a a bid situation. Uh then you it's like a a bid situation. Uh then you also have to be also have to be also have to be cognizant cognizant cognizant of what tactics or approaches your your of what tactics or approaches your your of what tactics or approaches your your competition are taking. But that I think competition are taking. But that I think competition are taking. But that I think that's why good procurement practices on that's why good procurement practices on that's why good procurement practices on the side of the buyer are really the side of the buyer are really the side of the buyer are really important, right? And we've talked about important, right? And we've talked about important, right? And we've talked about that before, right? And how jacked up that before, right? And how jacked up that before, right? And how jacked up some of that stuff is. So buyers out some of that stuff is. So buyers out some of that stuff is. So buyers out there, I mean, really try to get a there, I mean, really try to get a there, I mean, really try to get a handle on your procurement process, handle on your procurement process, handle on your procurement process, especially if you really want to get the especially if you really want to get the especially if you really want to get the best service providers and uh you know best service providers and uh you know best service providers and uh you know um you know um resources, okay, working um you know um resources, okay, working um you know um resources, okay, working on on these critical projects that you on on these critical projects that you on on these critical projects that you have. uh really have to get a lot of have. uh really have to get a lot of have. uh really have to get a lot of that stuff straight and that can be that that stuff straight and that can be that that stuff straight and that can be that can be broken sometimes in some can be broken sometimes in some can be broken sometimes in some organizations as we we've talked about organizations as we we've talked about organizations as we we've talked about prior on IoT Coffee Talk. But um yeah, prior on IoT Coffee Talk. But um yeah, prior on IoT Coffee Talk. But um yeah, you can skin that cow all kinds of you can skin that cow all kinds of you can skin that cow all kinds of different ways. Um it's just that I I I different ways. Um it's just that I I I different ways. Um it's just that I I I think one of the things that I used to think one of the things that I used to think one of the things that I used to try to do and and somewhat successfully try to do and and somewhat successfully try to do and and somewhat successfully sometimes not um was to sell the value sometimes not um was to sell the value sometimes not um was to sell the value of that immediate phase of work that of that immediate phase of work that of that immediate phase of work that we're talking about. But then also we're talking about. But then also we're talking about. But then also helping them understand that one of the helping them understand that one of the helping them understand that one of the things that we we would do as part of things that we we would do as part of things that we we would do as part of the approach that we take is ensure that the approach that we take is ensure that the approach that we take is ensure that all the deliverables that are are

all the deliverables that are are all the deliverables that are are produced can be leveraged by any other produced can be leveraged by any other produced can be leveraged by any other party. Let's say that you decide not to party. Let's say that you decide not to party. Let's say that you decide not to go with us uh for the implementation or go with us uh for the implementation or go with us uh for the implementation or the design phase or what have you the the design phase or what have you the the design phase or what have you the subsequent phases that that we would subsequent phases that that we would subsequent phases that that we would work with your team to make sure that work with your team to make sure that work with your team to make sure that that those artifacts are leverable, that those artifacts are leverable, that those artifacts are leverable, right? Um, and otherwise what you get right? Um, and otherwise what you get right? Um, and otherwise what you get into this game of like doing the invest into this game of like doing the invest into this game of like doing the invest like you're talking about and then like you're talking about and then like you're talking about and then everyone starts doing it and then guess everyone starts doing it and then guess everyone starts doing it and then guess what? nobody makes money. And that what? nobody makes money. And that what? nobody makes money. And that creates all kinds of weird um incentives creates all kinds of weird um incentives creates all kinds of weird um incentives within the service providers within the service providers within the service providers organization that then organization that then organization that then um impact the implementation phase where um impact the implementation phase where um impact the implementation phase where everyone is trying to make everyone is trying to make everyone is trying to make good on that in initial investment. So good on that in initial investment. So good on that in initial investment. So there's all kinds of ways that a buyer there's all kinds of ways that a buyer there's all kinds of ways that a buyer can really screw up can really screw up can really screw up the political environment. you know, you the political environment. you know, you the political environment. you know, you can have positive politics that you um can have positive politics that you um can have positive politics that you um foster amongst all stakeholders, foster amongst all stakeholders, foster amongst all stakeholders, including your your um partners and your including your your um partners and your including your your um partners and your suppliers, vendors. Yeah. Or you can suppliers, vendors. Yeah. Or you can suppliers, vendors. Yeah. Or you can make it really toxic. And I think I make it really toxic. And I think I make it really toxic. And I think I don't know about you, Bill, the the don't know about you, Bill, the the don't know about you, Bill, the the worst projects that I've ever been on worst projects that I've ever been on worst projects that I've ever been on are the ones that had toxic politics.

are the ones that had toxic politics. are the ones that had toxic politics. Number one, not only is it really Number one, not only is it really Number one, not only is it really uncomfortable for everybody, right? Um, uncomfortable for everybody, right? Um, uncomfortable for everybody, right? Um, it took the eye off the ball. That ball it took the eye off the ball. That ball it took the eye off the ball. That ball is the customer. And dude, when I used is the customer. And dude, when I used is the customer. And dude, when I used to be in those situations, I used to to be in those situations, I used to to be in those situations, I used to tell everyone, "Look, guys, it's not tell everyone, "Look, guys, it's not tell everyone, "Look, guys, it's not it's not about us. It's the customer." it's not about us. It's the customer." it's not about us. It's the customer." Right? You know what? And so this is my Right? You know what? And so this is my Right? You know what? And so this is my piece of advice to everyone out there piece of advice to everyone out there piece of advice to everyone out there getting into this and because you know getting into this and because you know getting into this and because you know this this kind of [ __ ] situation this this kind of [ __ ] situation this this kind of [ __ ] situation happens a hell of a lot more than people happens a hell of a lot more than people happens a hell of a lot more than people probably would like to admit. Um if you probably would like to admit. Um if you probably would like to admit. Um if you if you truly put the customer first, you if you truly put the customer first, you if you truly put the customer first, you will will will win. And sometimes that's hard when the win. And sometimes that's hard when the win. And sometimes that's hard when the when the toxicity is so high, right? when the toxicity is so high, right? when the toxicity is so high, right? Yeah. But don't let's not forget that Yeah. But don't let's not forget that Yeah. But don't let's not forget that there are some bad customers too. Yeah. there are some bad customers too. Yeah. there are some bad customers too. Yeah. Come on, Come on, Come on, man. I'm trying to paint a picture of man. I'm trying to paint a picture of man. I'm trying to paint a picture of hope. There is. But I just I you know, hope. There is. But I just I you know, hope. There is. But I just I you know, you know, I can't I can't I can't just I you know, I can't I can't I can't just I you know, I can't I can't I can't just I can't just sit there and in the back of can't just sit there and in the back of can't just sit there and in the back of my head the back of my head there's that my head the back of my head there's that my head the back of my head there's that dude that's sitting there saying, "Man, dude that's sitting there saying, "Man, dude that's sitting there saying, "Man, you know, that's some you know, that's some you know, that's some bullshit." And either either you're bullshit." And either either you're bullshit." And either either you're going to say it voluntarily or I'm going going to say it voluntarily or I'm going going to say it voluntarily or I'm going to show it. I mean, but for real, right?

to show it. I mean, but for real, right? to show it. I mean, but for real, right? I mean, that it it just know that that's I mean, that it it just know that that's I mean, that it it just know that that's the case, right? Even if you put if you the case, right? Even if you put if you the case, right? Even if you put if you put the customer first, which is put the customer first, which is put the customer first, which is something that you should always do, something that you should always do, something that you should always do, even when you do that, there are bad even when you do that, there are bad even when you do that, there are bad customers. And just know that, all customers. And just know that, all customers. And just know that, all right, I know that this is a bad right, I know that this is a bad right, I know that this is a bad customer. Yeah. And I need to do customer. Yeah. And I need to do customer. Yeah. And I need to do everything that I can just to get this everything that I can just to get this everything that I can just to get this done so that I can go back to my happy done so that I can go back to my happy done so that I can go back to my happy life. Yeah. I can get get the hell out. life. Yeah. I can get get the hell out. life. Yeah. I can get get the hell out. Yeah. I mean, you know, actually, um, Yeah. I mean, you know, actually, um, Yeah. I mean, you know, actually, um, sometimes I mean, no, we've said it sometimes I mean, no, we've said it sometimes I mean, no, we've said it before is one of the things is as a before is one of the things is as a before is one of the things is as a business, one of the key things is to business, one of the key things is to business, one of the key things is to avoid bad business cuz there is bad avoid bad business cuz there is bad avoid bad business cuz there is bad money. Not all money is good money. money. Not all money is good money. money. Not all money is good money. Yeah. Not not all money is good money. Yeah. Not not all money is good money. Yeah. Not not all money is good money. And so I these these simple tropes are And so I these these simple tropes are And so I these these simple tropes are have a lot of wisdom in them, you know, have a lot of wisdom in them, you know, have a lot of wisdom in them, you know, especially when you apply them to what especially when you apply them to what especially when you apply them to what we're talking about right now, right? we're talking about right now, right? we're talking about right now, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right, man. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right, man. I Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right, man. I mean um and usually again getting back mean um and usually again getting back mean um and usually again getting back to the politics it's really about um is to the politics it's really about um is to the politics it's really about um is everyone in it for including the everyone in it for including the everyone in it for including the customer customer customer in in the charter of the project? Do you in in the charter of the project? Do you in in the charter of the project? Do you believe in it? And if there is no believe in it? And if there is no believe in it? And if there is no intrinsic belief or understanding of intrinsic belief or understanding of intrinsic belief or understanding of that charter or the charter is wrong, that charter or the charter is wrong, that charter or the charter is wrong, right? That's that's how you get in right? That's that's how you get in right? That's that's how you get in trouble, right? And then at that point, trouble, right? And then at that point, trouble, right? And then at that point, I mean, I see those are the things that I mean, I see those are the things that I mean, I see those are the things that you might want to scope out as a a

you might want to scope out as a a you might want to scope out as a a vendor or a service or solution provider vendor or a service or solution provider vendor or a service or solution provider is um what am I getting myself into? You is um what am I getting myself into? You is um what am I getting myself into? You know, um there's so many stories that we know, um there's so many stories that we know, um there's so many stories that we heard in the past six years we've been heard in the past six years we've been heard in the past six years we've been doing IoT coffee talk about people doing IoT coffee talk about people doing IoT coffee talk about people engaged with bad projects. I mean, it engaged with bad projects. I mean, it engaged with bad projects. I mean, it maybe not even their fault, but yeah, maybe not even their fault, but yeah, maybe not even their fault, but yeah, you're right. Um, now we're we're you're right. Um, now we're we're you're right. Um, now we're we're getting way past PC's and pilots here, getting way past PC's and pilots here, getting way past PC's and pilots here, but um but but I mean, but those those but um but but I mean, but those those but um but but I mean, but those those are the key points. We should call this are the key points. We should call this are the key points. We should call this episode P PTSD. episode P PTSD. episode P PTSD. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Like, I haven't shown Yeah. Yeah, it is. Like, I haven't shown Yeah. Yeah, it is. Like, I haven't shown you guys the scars on my back yet. you guys the scars on my back yet. you guys the scars on my back yet. Um, but there's there's knowing what Um, but there's there's knowing what Um, but there's there's knowing what problem it is that you're trying to problem it is that you're trying to problem it is that you're trying to solve, keeping the customer first. Yeah. solve, keeping the customer first. Yeah. solve, keeping the customer first. Yeah. Drive towards a pilot that is shared. So Drive towards a pilot that is shared. So Drive towards a pilot that is shared. So that is shared risk, shared reward, and that is shared risk, shared reward, and that is shared risk, shared reward, and get yourself to full production and get yourself to full production and get yourself to full production and become a partner. Whenever a whenever become a partner. Whenever a whenever become a partner. Whenever a whenever one of our customers has called me a one of our customers has called me a one of our customers has called me a vendor, I'm like, "Hold up, hold up, vendor, I'm like, "Hold up, hold up, vendor, I'm like, "Hold up, hold up, hold up." I'm like, "I'm sorry. No hold up." I'm like, "I'm sorry. No hold up." I'm like, "I'm sorry. No disrespect or anything. Vendor sell disrespect or anything. Vendor sell disrespect or anything. Vendor sell peanuts.

peanuts. peanuts. I'm your partner. Baseball games. I'm I'm your partner. Baseball games. I'm I'm your partner. Baseball games. I'm your partner. Vendor. your partner. Vendor. your partner. Vendor. I'm your partner. Okay. I got I got both I'm your partner. Okay. I got I got both I'm your partner. Okay. I got I got both our I got both our interests at at our I got both our interests at at our I got both our interests at at heart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, heart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, heart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I hear Yeah, that's true. Actually, no. I hear Yeah, that's true. Actually, no. I hear Yeah, that's true. Actually, you're not selling them a widget. No. you're not selling them a widget. No. you're not selling them a widget. No. I'm here. I'm here. I'm not selling it I'm here. I'm here. I'm not selling it I'm here. I'm here. I'm not selling it and then I'm gone. I'm selling it and and then I'm gone. I'm selling it and and then I'm gone. I'm selling it and then I'm coming in for QBRS and I'm like then I'm coming in for QBRS and I'm like then I'm coming in for QBRS and I'm like what else would you like to see? What what else would you like to see? What what else would you like to see? What else can you do to this is software we else can you do to this is software we else can you do to this is software we are continuing to move forward. So I are continuing to move forward. So I are continuing to move forward. So I want to show you where we're going. I want to show you where we're going. I want to show you where we're going. I want to take your needs into account and want to take your needs into account and want to take your needs into account and build them into my road map. Yeah. Yeah. build them into my road map. Yeah. Yeah. build them into my road map. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's um that is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's um that is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's um that is different. Okay. I misspoke. You know I different. Okay. I misspoke. You know I different. Okay. I misspoke. You know I said service provider, solution said service provider, solution said service provider, solution provider, partner, whatever you want to provider, partner, whatever you want to provider, partner, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. So there's a whole range, call it. Yeah. So there's a whole range, call it. Yeah. So there's a whole range, right? Because some people do sell right? Because some people do sell right? Because some people do sell peanuts. Yeah, they do. And some peanuts peanuts. Yeah, they do. And some peanuts peanuts. Yeah, they do. And some peanuts are really good in certain situations. are really good in certain situations. are really good in certain situations. So, don't peanuts and some and and look, So, don't peanuts and some and and look, So, don't peanuts and some and and look, some some customers are allergic to some some customers are allergic to some some customers are allergic to peanuts.

peanuts. peanuts. I'm just saying. This is true. This is I'm just saying. This is true. This is I'm just saying. This is true. This is true. Um, yeah, there's a But I true. Um, yeah, there's a But I true. Um, yeah, there's a But I think think think the the idea that you give these things the the idea that you give these things the the idea that you give these things away from away from away from free, I actually I don't even want to free, I actually I don't even want to free, I actually I don't even want to hear it anymore. If I hear somebody sit hear it anymore. If I hear somebody sit hear it anymore. If I hear somebody sit there and say, "Yeah, we give a a pilot there and say, "Yeah, we give a a pilot there and say, "Yeah, we give a a pilot away for free, pilot project or blah away for free, pilot project or blah away for free, pilot project or blah blah blah blah blah." I'm going to roll my eyes and go, blah." I'm going to roll my eyes and go, blah." I'm going to roll my eyes and go, "Okay, you're in trouble." Yeah. That's "Okay, you're in trouble." Yeah. That's "Okay, you're in trouble." Yeah. That's like like like um that is that is an that is an um that is that is an that is an um that is that is an that is an indication that um that particular um indication that um that particular um indication that um that particular um that particular company or whatever that that particular company or whatever that that particular company or whatever that party is is not really tuning into party is is not really tuning into party is is not really tuning into um you know uh number one what a PO a PC um you know uh number one what a PO a PC um you know uh number one what a PO a PC is or a pilot um from a commercial is or a pilot um from a commercial is or a pilot um from a commercial standpoint if you're giving this stuff standpoint if you're giving this stuff standpoint if you're giving this stuff away for free, you're in big trouble. In away for free, you're in big trouble. In away for free, you're in big trouble. In fact, you know, maybe one of the good fact, you know, maybe one of the good fact, you know, maybe one of the good things for listeners to do here is to things for listeners to do here is to things for listeners to do here is to take some of our our points about what take some of our our points about what take some of our our points about what what you should do in shaping what you should do in shaping what you should do in shaping the the potential customer or prospect's the the potential customer or prospect's the the potential customer or prospect's expectation is to talk about it's like expectation is to talk about it's like expectation is to talk about it's like look you know pilot shouldn't be done look you know pilot shouldn't be done look you know pilot shouldn't be done for free neither should be PC let me for free neither should be PC let me for free neither should be PC let me help you help you help you understand right and then contextualize understand right and then contextualize understand right and then contextualize it and then um and help them understand

it and then um and help them understand it and then um and help them understand um where where there can be some um where where there can be some um where where there can be some reasonable investment, right, on the reasonable investment, right, on the reasonable investment, right, on the part of a partner or a vendor if you're part of a partner or a vendor if you're part of a partner or a vendor if you're selling peanuts, right? And then um and then make sure right? And then um and then make sure that you build a business for yourself. that you build a business for yourself. that you build a business for yourself. Geez. Right. Um I think the same goes Geez. Right. Um I think the same goes Geez. Right. Um I think the same goes for AI. AI. I know we were going to try for AI. AI. I know we were going to try for AI. AI. I know we were going to try to avoid AI, but AI has the same to avoid AI, but AI has the same to avoid AI, but AI has the same problem. You know, it's not like these problem. You know, it's not like these problem. You know, it's not like these guys are like selling this stuff like guys are like selling this stuff like guys are like selling this stuff like hotcakes. There's a couple very niche hotcakes. There's a couple very niche hotcakes. There's a couple very niche companies that are finding some success, companies that are finding some success, companies that are finding some success, but vast majority there's consolidation but vast majority there's consolidation but vast majority there's consolidation happening now. Everyone's talking about happening now. Everyone's talking about happening now. Everyone's talking about consolidation and a lot of people um consolidation and a lot of people um consolidation and a lot of people um about to run out of money. That means about to run out of money. That means about to run out of money. That means that you're as a as a partner or a that you're as a as a partner or a that you're as a as a partner or a vendor or a service provider, you're vendor or a service provider, you're vendor or a service provider, you're doing a really crap job of doing a really crap job of doing a really crap job of helping your prospects helping your prospects helping your prospects um you know see the value of what you're um you know see the value of what you're um you know see the value of what you're you're delivering, right? Uh and then so you're delivering, right? Uh and then so you're delivering, right? Uh and then so getting into these PC's, giving them getting into these PC's, giving them getting into these PC's, giving them away for free if you're like a a away for free if you're like a a away for free if you're like a a consultant or SI. Um that's that's not a consultant or SI. Um that's that's not a consultant or SI. Um that's that's not a a good approach. And I think for buyers, a good approach. And I think for buyers, a good approach. And I think for buyers, it's absolutely naive to think that it's absolutely naive to think that it's absolutely naive to think that everyone out there knows how to get everyone out there knows how to get everyone out there knows how to get value out of AI and it's becoming more value out of AI and it's becoming more value out of AI and it's becoming more and more of a joke. And so you really and more of a joke. And so you really and more of a joke. And so you really have to be careful who you trust out have to be careful who you trust out have to be careful who you trust out there. Absolutely. I mean, look, even on

there. Absolutely. I mean, look, even on there. Absolutely. I mean, look, even on the even on that front, right? Or or the even on that front, right? Or or the even on that front, right? Or or people look at software, they look at people look at software, they look at people look at software, they look at AI, they look at all of those types of AI, they look at all of those types of AI, they look at all of those types of things, right? and they assume that the things, right? and they assume that the things, right? and they assume that the cost to implement or the cost to cost to implement or the cost to cost to implement or the cost to demonstrate is trivial. Yeah. So, uh demonstrate is trivial. Yeah. So, uh demonstrate is trivial. Yeah. So, uh absolutely not. Cloud costs are cloud absolutely not. Cloud costs are cloud absolutely not. Cloud costs are cloud costs. I can I and if you really kind of costs. I can I and if you really kind of costs. I can I and if you really kind of want to take a look at it, run down want to take a look at it, run down want to take a look at it, run down there to go to any one of your your there to go to any one of your your there to go to any one of your your large CSPs and just use their large CSPs and just use their large CSPs and just use their calculator. Look how much uh you know, calculator. Look how much uh you know, calculator. Look how much uh you know, look how much two or three terabytes of look how much two or three terabytes of look how much two or three terabytes of of data is going to cost you inside an of data is going to cost you inside an of data is going to cost you inside an S3 bucket in in AWS. Yeah. And by the S3 bucket in in AWS. Yeah. And by the S3 bucket in in AWS. Yeah. And by the way, you're not just using an S3 bucket. way, you're not just using an S3 bucket. way, you're not just using an S3 bucket. You're using some of their other You're using some of their other You're using some of their other services. Uh you know, so I services. Uh you know, so I services. Uh you know, so I mean it it's you're using Fargate mean it it's you're using Fargate mean it it's you're using Fargate containers and you're using other containers and you're using other containers and you're using other services that are sitting in there. Same services that are sitting in there. Same services that are sitting in there. Same thing with with Azure. you're using thing with with Azure. you're using thing with with Azure. you're using their their IoT hub and all of this their their IoT hub and all of this their their IoT hub and all of this other stuff. Go and look at how much it other stuff. Go and look at how much it other stuff. Go and look at how much it would be to to you know throw around a would be to to you know throw around a would be to to you know throw around a terabyte of data and that is just the terabyte of data and that is just the terabyte of data and that is just the infrastructure cost. That's not your infrastructure cost. That's not your infrastructure cost. That's not your partners' cost of making sure that that partners' cost of making sure that that partners' cost of making sure that that solution delivers on the KPIs. So I'm solution delivers on the KPIs. So I'm solution delivers on the KPIs. So I'm just saying that you know it it needs to just saying that you know it it needs to just saying that you know it it needs to be just that it needs these things need be just that it needs these things need be just that it needs these things need to be viewed as partners. I'm making an to be viewed as partners. I'm making an to be viewed as partners. I'm making an investment in my customer and my investment in my customer and my investment in my customer and my customer base by doing a number of customer base by doing a number of customer base by doing a number of different things, right? So, our different things, right? So, our different things, right? So, our partners, our partners are over there partners, our partners are over there partners, our partners are over there saying, "Okay, well, you know, we're

saying, "Okay, well, you know, we're saying, "Okay, well, you know, we're we're working with this city. We're we're working with this city. We're we're working with this city. We're going to we're going to put an office going to we're going to put an office going to we're going to put an office here. Get me to your economic here. Get me to your economic here. Get me to your economic development group and we're going to development group and we're going to development group and we're going to work with them to help build, you know, work with them to help build, you know, work with them to help build, you know, there's an there's quid proquo across there's an there's quid proquo across there's an there's quid proquo across the board because you want to be that the board because you want to be that the board because you want to be that partner." Yeah. Um, so I mean, you know, partner." Yeah. Um, so I mean, you know, partner." Yeah. Um, so I mean, you know, when people are looking at and all when people are looking at and all when people are looking at and all they're doing is just slinging sales they're doing is just slinging sales they're doing is just slinging sales pitches around, those are your vendors. pitches around, those are your vendors. pitches around, those are your vendors. Yeah. They're selling peanuts. Those are Yeah. They're selling peanuts. Those are Yeah. They're selling peanuts. Those are your vendors right there. You know, your vendors right there. You know, your vendors right there. You know, maybe this episode should be called maybe this episode should be called maybe this episode should be called Don't Sell Peanuts. Be your Don't Sell Peanuts. Be your Don't Sell Peanuts. Be your partner. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't partner. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't partner. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Don't sell peanuts, otherwise you're just sell peanuts, otherwise you're just sell peanuts, otherwise you're just going to make peanuts. That's it. I going to make peanuts. That's it. I going to make peanuts. That's it. I mean, yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, mean, yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, mean, yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, we've, you know, we've we've talked to a we've, you know, we've we've talked to a we've, you know, we've we've talked to a lot of our and you know, here's the lot of our and you know, here's the lot of our and you know, here's the interesting thing. Absol Mangal, he interesting thing. Absol Mangal, he interesting thing. Absol Mangal, he wrote that book and it's like we don't wrote that book and it's like we don't wrote that book and it's like we don't talk about IoT enough. talk about IoT enough. talk about IoT enough. Um, I want him on. He said, "Hey, dude. Um, I want him on. He said, "Hey, dude. Um, I want him on. He said, "Hey, dude. Come on. Come on. And and let's talk Come on. Come on. And and let's talk Come on. Come on. And and let's talk about your book, dude. And then you can about your book, dude. And then you can about your book, dude. And then you can tell us we're full of crap. We we we tell us we're full of crap. We we we tell us we're full of crap. We we we would love that opportunity to have you would love that opportunity to have you would love that opportunity to have you say that we don't know what we're say that we don't know what we're say that we don't know what we're talking about." Please. Yes. No. We're talking about." Please. Yes. No. We're talking about." Please. Yes. No. We're open booked, right? We we challenge, but open booked, right? We we challenge, but open booked, right? We we challenge, but um I I I think if if we're still um I I I think if if we're still um I I I think if if we're still struggling to sell the solution, going struggling to sell the solution, going struggling to sell the solution, going back to talking to technology, back to talking to technology, back to talking to technology, right? How does that move the ball? I right? How does that move the ball? I right? How does that move the ball? I guess that would be like the persistent

guess that would be like the persistent guess that would be like the persistent question. Um I I don't think Telos have question. Um I I don't think Telos have question. Um I I don't think Telos have been really good at figuring out IoT. In been really good at figuring out IoT. In been really good at figuring out IoT. In fact, I think they've been pretty fact, I think they've been pretty fact, I think they've been pretty terrible at it. terrible at it. terrible at it. Um they continue to be not very good at Um they continue to be not very good at Um they continue to be not very good at it. Um but what are they selling? What it. Um but what are they selling? What it. Um but what are they selling? What are they selling? They can't sell IoT. are they selling? They can't sell IoT. are they selling? They can't sell IoT. Oh, because they cannot articulate the Oh, because they cannot articulate the Oh, because they cannot articulate the solution. I will tell you they don't solution. I will tell you they don't solution. I will tell you they don't make the solution. That's the thing. make the solution. That's the thing. make the solution. That's the thing. You're the problem. That's the thing. You're the problem. That's the thing. You're the problem. That's the thing. Exactly. Exactly. Because what I what I Exactly. Exactly. Because what I what I Exactly. Exactly. Because what I what I do what I explain to the telco industry do what I explain to the telco industry do what I explain to the telco industry is um if you want to know what your next is um if you want to know what your next is um if you want to know what your next opportunity is, it is going to be rooted opportunity is, it is going to be rooted opportunity is, it is going to be rooted on the next mobile computing paradigm. on the next mobile computing paradigm. on the next mobile computing paradigm. What is that? And the funny thing is What is that? And the funny thing is What is that? And the funny thing is it's going to be diverse. It's going to it's going to be diverse. It's going to it's going to be diverse. It's going to be different, but it's not just be different, but it's not just be different, but it's not just connectivity. And so if your mindset is connectivity. And so if your mindset is connectivity. And so if your mindset is fixated on just connectivity and fixated on just connectivity and fixated on just connectivity and communications, then you're you're not communications, then you're you're not communications, then you're you're not going to be able to see the opportunity.

going to be able to see the opportunity. going to be able to see the opportunity. You're not going to be able to maximize You're not going to be able to maximize You're not going to be able to maximize your cut of the opportunity, right? And your cut of the opportunity, right? And your cut of the opportunity, right? And this is what we hear in the industry all this is what we hear in the industry all this is what we hear in the industry all the time. And so the and a lot of the the time. And so the and a lot of the the time. And so the and a lot of the opportunities going forward are going to opportunities going forward are going to opportunities going forward are going to be somewhat IoTish related. So these be somewhat IoTish related. So these be somewhat IoTish related. So these paradigms that we've been talking about paradigms that we've been talking about paradigms that we've been talking about for years in the IoT space um really f for years in the IoT space um really f for years in the IoT space um really f sort of finding a home whether whether sort of finding a home whether whether sort of finding a home whether whether the telco industry likes it or not but the telco industry likes it or not but the telco industry likes it or not but you know what I'm saying it's um to but you know what I'm saying it's um to but you know what I'm saying it's um to but that requires to have that more that requires to have that more that requires to have that more expansive view on what expansive view on what expansive view on what uh what we're all dealing with here when uh what we're all dealing with here when uh what we're all dealing with here when it comes to quote unquote IoT, right? it comes to quote unquote IoT, right? it comes to quote unquote IoT, right? going back to hey well you know let's going back to hey well you know let's going back to hey well you know let's talk about this sensor and this talk about this sensor and this talk about this sensor and this particular protocol for you know particular protocol for you know particular protocol for you know brokering data and blah blah blah you brokering data and blah blah blah you brokering data and blah blah blah you know that's minutia you know what I'm know that's minutia you know what I'm know that's minutia you know what I'm saying that's it 100%. I mean it it saying that's it 100%. I mean it it saying that's it 100%. I mean it it Yeah. I mean the carriers that I mean Yeah. I mean the carriers that I mean Yeah. I mean the carriers that I mean the telco I mean look I love them. I mean telco I mean look I love them. I mean they they you know they serve a purpose they they you know they serve a purpose they they you know they serve a purpose and everything but you and everything but you and everything but you know IoT wise no they we've said it know IoT wise no they we've said it know IoT wise no they we've said it before and I'll say it I'll say it one before and I'll say it I'll say it one before and I'll say it I'll say it one last time for the people in the back.

last time for the people in the back. last time for the people in the back. Um, nine times out of 10, I have yet to Um, nine times out of 10, I have yet to Um, nine times out of 10, I have yet to see a telco that is actually doing see a telco that is actually doing see a telco that is actually doing anything other than selling SIM cards. anything other than selling SIM cards. anything other than selling SIM cards. Yeah. At the end of the day, that's Yeah. At the end of the day, that's Yeah. At the end of the day, that's really what it comes down to. Uh, okay. really what it comes down to. Uh, okay. really what it comes down to. Uh, okay. So, they could be they could be called So, they could be they could be called So, they could be they could be called real estate people if they own the tower real estate people if they own the tower real estate people if they own the tower because then they can lease the space, because then they can lease the space, because then they can lease the space, but they're still just leasing the space but they're still just leasing the space but they're still just leasing the space to other telos. I mean, so, you know, to other telos. I mean, so, you know, to other telos. I mean, so, you know, it's a it's a it's a wild game. Um, I do it's a it's a it's a wild game. Um, I do it's a it's a it's a wild game. Um, I do recall a time when when all three were recall a time when when all three were recall a time when when all three were like, "We're getting in the IoT space like, "We're getting in the IoT space like, "We're getting in the IoT space because we're the connectivity." Okay. because we're the connectivity." Okay. because we're the connectivity." Okay. Well, yeah. Um, I will say that for me Well, yeah. Um, I will say that for me Well, yeah. Um, I will say that for me at least when I look at AT&T, they kind at least when I look at AT&T, they kind at least when I look at AT&T, they kind of backed off and said, "No, no, no, no. of backed off and said, "No, no, no, no. of backed off and said, "No, no, no, no. We're we're going to stay in our lane We're we're going to stay in our lane We're we're going to stay in our lane over here and we're going to do over here and we're going to do over here and we're going to do everything we can to create." and they everything we can to create." and they everything we can to create." and they got a, you know, they got an interesting got a, you know, they got an interesting got a, you know, they got an interesting business model with their, you know, the business model with their, you know, the business model with their, you know, the the partners, the way the partners are the partners, the way the partners are the partners, the way the partners are lined up, right? So, you can be an Apex lined up, right? So, you can be an Apex lined up, right? So, you can be an Apex partner and go out there and compete partner and go out there and compete partner and go out there and compete with them, but still selling their with them, but still selling their with them, but still selling their stuff. That's weird. Um, stuff. That's weird. Um, stuff. That's weird. Um, or you can be a sell with, you know, or you can be a sell with, you know, or you can be a sell with, you know, partner. And I'm like, okay. Um, I get partner. And I'm like, okay. Um, I get partner. And I'm like, okay. Um, I get all of that. Telos have never understood all of that. Telos have never understood all of that. Telos have never understood IoT. And the weird part about it, IoT. And the weird part about it, IoT. And the weird part about it, Smart Grid 2.0 is heavy cellular.

Smart Grid 2.0 is heavy cellular. Smart Grid 2.0 is heavy cellular. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And um I um I um I think it it a lot of it again is and you think it it a lot of it again is and you think it it a lot of it again is and you know, here's the interesting thing know, here's the interesting thing know, here's the interesting thing though. Everyone thought the though. Everyone thought the though. Everyone thought the hyperscalers are going to get everything hyperscalers are going to get everything hyperscalers are going to get everything and it's been they've had a really tough and it's been they've had a really tough and it's been they've had a really tough time. Yeah. Just like they've had a time. Yeah. Just like they've had a time. Yeah. Just like they've had a tough time with the telco tough time with the telco tough time with the telco infrastructure, right, and the ran, all infrastructure, right, and the ran, all infrastructure, right, and the ran, all this other stuff. Well, they're they're this other stuff. Well, they're they're this other stuff. Well, they're they're getting crunched in the middle. Yeah. Um getting crunched in the middle. Yeah. Um getting crunched in the middle. Yeah. Um so, so, so, uh that just makes me hearken back to uh that just makes me hearken back to uh that just makes me hearken back to the time when uh Rob, Tiffany, and I the time when uh Rob, Tiffany, and I the time when uh Rob, Tiffany, and I were at the IoT were at the IoT were at the IoT um Solutions World Congress in um Solutions World Congress in um Solutions World Congress in Barcelona, and we were touring around Barcelona, and we were touring around Barcelona, and we were touring around the exhibition floor. were we're going the exhibition floor. were we're going the exhibition floor. were we're going by the Microsoft booth and the a no it by the Microsoft booth and the a no it by the Microsoft booth and the a no it was a Google booth and we were shaking was a Google booth and we were shaking was a Google booth and we were shaking our heads going these guys aren't going our heads going these guys aren't going our heads going these guys aren't going to make to make to make it but then of course at the time it the it but then of course at the time it the it but then of course at the time it the the hype was these guys are going to the hype was these guys are going to the hype was these guys are going to take over everything right um and um take over everything right um and um take over everything right um and um yeah he and I we listened to some yeah he and I we listened to some yeah he and I we listened to some sessions and we're kind of like rolling sessions and we're kind of like rolling sessions and we're kind of like rolling our eyes it's like this not not the way our eyes it's like this not not the way our eyes it's like this not not the way it's going to turn out and sure enough it's going to turn out and sure enough it's going to turn out and sure enough um now what is it like 8 years um now what is it like 8 years um now what is it like 8 years later. Um, yeah, we are where we are.

later. Um, yeah, we are where we are. later. Um, yeah, we are where we are. But, uh, yeah. Uh, you But, uh, yeah. Uh, you But, uh, yeah. Uh, you know, know, know, it's dude, this is why you just can't it's dude, this is why you just can't it's dude, this is why you just can't you have to just really think this stuff you have to just really think this stuff you have to just really think this stuff through. You just can't like follow the through. You just can't like follow the through. You just can't like follow the hype. It's Well, yeah. Again, I think hype. It's Well, yeah. Again, I think hype. It's Well, yeah. Again, I think you have to know all the dead bodies, you have to know all the dead bodies, you have to know all the dead bodies, man. Do you know what I'm saying? I just man. Do you know what I'm saying? I just man. Do you know what I'm saying? I just know where you are, know where you are, know where you are, you know? you know? you know? Uh you have just you just have to know Uh you have just you just have to know Uh you have just you just have to know where you are, who you know who you are, where you are, who you know who you are, where you are, who you know who you are, and don't try to be everything to and don't try to be everything to and don't try to be everything to everyone. everyone. everyone. Yeah. Where have we heard that before? Yeah. Where have we heard that before? Yeah. Where have we heard that before? It's right here. I mean, biggest It's right here. I mean, biggest It's right here. I mean, biggest problem, identity. Who the hell are you? problem, identity. Who the hell are you? problem, identity. Who the hell are you? Who are you? Know who you are. You don't Who are you? Know who you are. You don't Who are you? Know who you are. You don't know who you are. Number you you don't know who you are. Number you you don't know who you are. Number you you don't even know why you should be doing a even know why you should be doing a even know why you should be doing a pilot or a PC or anything. you're going pilot or a PC or anything. you're going pilot or a PC or anything. you're going to have a find tough time to figure out to have a find tough time to figure out to have a find tough time to figure out how you fit in the solution, right? And how you fit in the solution, right? And how you fit in the solution, right? And so that was like the thing that I I told so that was like the thing that I I told so that was like the thing that I I told the folks at IoT Stars two years ago.

the folks at IoT Stars two years ago. the folks at IoT Stars two years ago. It's like one of the biggest problems It's like one of the biggest problems It's like one of the biggest problems that IoT guys have right now, identity that IoT guys have right now, identity that IoT guys have right now, identity crisis. The thing is they have anxiety crisis. The thing is they have anxiety crisis. The thing is they have anxiety for being so narrow or so flat. Do you for being so narrow or so flat. Do you for being so narrow or so flat. Do you know what I'm saying? But the story they know what I'm saying? But the story they know what I'm saying? But the story they want to tell is way above them or want to tell is way above them or want to tell is way above them or requires whole constellation of logos requires whole constellation of logos requires whole constellation of logos that they can stitch together on a that they can stitch together on a that they can stitch together on a partner page to give that they're bigger partner page to give that they're bigger partner page to give that they're bigger than that, you know. Um that's it. And than that, you know. Um that's it. And than that, you know. Um that's it. And but having that identity, working that but having that identity, working that but having that identity, working that identity, having strategic partnerships identity, having strategic partnerships identity, having strategic partnerships that actually generate revenue, but more that actually generate revenue, but more that actually generate revenue, but more importantly are channelneled to deliver importantly are channelneled to deliver importantly are channelneled to deliver solutions to customers. That is way more solutions to customers. That is way more solutions to customers. That is way more important that how many freaking logos important that how many freaking logos important that how many freaking logos you have on your in fact that's where you have on your in fact that's where you have on your in fact that's where you know you know we need to help buyers you know you know we need to help buyers you know you know we need to help buyers understand that better. It's like it's understand that better. It's like it's understand that better. It's like it's not the number of logos. It's like man not the number of logos. It's like man not the number of logos. It's like man how many how many u solutions have they how many how many u solutions have they how many how many u solutions have they delivered what's their track record delivered what's their track record delivered what's their track record doing that and then creating uh doing that and then creating uh doing that and then creating uh sustainable um competitive advantage.

sustainable um competitive advantage. sustainable um competitive advantage. Yeah. Solutions that have long that have Yeah. Solutions that have long that have Yeah. Solutions that have long that have the potential of longevity. Right. You the potential of longevity. Right. You the potential of longevity. Right. You can achieve longevity in all kinds of can achieve longevity in all kinds of can achieve longevity in all kinds of different That's the other thing, dude. different That's the other thing, dude. different That's the other thing, dude. No one talks about longevity as much as No one talks about longevity as much as No one talks about longevity as much as they should. Well, because tech changes they should. Well, because tech changes they should. Well, because tech changes so fast, you know, but I mean, but that so fast, you know, but I mean, but that so fast, you know, but I mean, but that the thing that this is this gets back to the thing that this is this gets back to the thing that this is this gets back to if if you're talking about longevity, if if you're talking about longevity, if if you're talking about longevity, this gets back to your relationship and this gets back to your relationship and this gets back to your relationship and your relationship building and why, you your relationship building and why, you your relationship building and why, you know, how you're there and how you're know, how you're there and how you're know, how you're there and how you're trusted, you know. Uh I mean I think the trusted, you know. Uh I mean I think the trusted, you know. Uh I mean I think the other the other end of it then and and other the other end of it then and and other the other end of it then and and I'll I'll this will be my closing I'll I'll this will be my closing I'll I'll this will be my closing statement statement statement is there's a difference when you are is there's a difference when you are is there's a difference when you are building from the ground up when you are building from the ground up when you are building from the ground up when you are building grassroots. Yeah. When you have building grassroots. Yeah. When you have building grassroots. Yeah. When you have not not not received any VC funding received any VC funding received any VC funding and you have to grind to make that stuff and you have to grind to make that stuff and you have to grind to make that stuff go. You might have done All right. So go. You might have done All right. So go. You might have done All right. So some people will do friends and family some people will do friends and family some people will do friends and family and they'll, you know, they'll get some and they'll, you know, they'll get some and they'll, you know, they'll get some money that way and trigger it on some money that way and trigger it on some money that way and trigger it on some event or something like that. But I'm event or something like that. But I'm event or something like that. But I'm saying it's a different thing. I've seen saying it's a different thing. I've seen saying it's a different thing. I've seen startups get the money. And the weird startups get the money. And the weird startups get the money. And the weird part about it is I'm like, I wouldn't part about it is I'm like, I wouldn't part about it is I'm like, I wouldn't have spent that money that way. The way have spent that money that way. The way have spent that money that way. The way they spent that money, I wouldn't have they spent that money, I wouldn't have they spent that money, I wouldn't have done that.

done that. done that. and and someone said to me, they said, and and someone said to me, they said, and and someone said to me, they said, 'You know, and this is this is someone 'You know, and this is this is someone 'You know, and this is this is someone that they got that they got that they got funded and lost their funded and lost their funded and lost their business for two reasons, and we'll have business for two reasons, and we'll have business for two reasons, and we'll have to make a whole episode about that. The to make a whole episode about that. The to make a whole episode about that. The way the VC community has changed and way the VC community has changed and way the VC community has changed and what the VC community is expecting, and what the VC community is expecting, and what the VC community is expecting, and the simple fact that if you are truly an the simple fact that if you are truly an the simple fact that if you are truly an entrepreneur, you want control of your entrepreneur, you want control of your entrepreneur, you want control of your stuff. When you get money from a VC, you stuff. When you get money from a VC, you stuff. When you get money from a VC, you no longer have that control because no longer have that control because no longer have that control because they're not incented to let you control they're not incented to let you control they're not incented to let you control that. So, they're either buying into that. So, they're either buying into that. So, they're either buying into your vision or not. Yeah. Because you your vision or not. Yeah. Because you your vision or not. Yeah. Because you need to read that fine print. And they need to read that fine print. And they need to read that fine print. And they lost they they lost their ass and their lost they they lost their ass and their lost they they lost their ass and their company and all of these other things. company and all of these other things. company and all of these other things. And now their reputation And now their reputation And now their reputation uh because when they took that money, uh because when they took that money, uh because when they took that money, they they told me they said, "Dude, you they they told me they said, "Dude, you they they told me they said, "Dude, you have no idea." they expect you to go have no idea." they expect you to go have no idea." they expect you to go spend. And I'm like, "Yeah, but wait a spend. And I'm like, "Yeah, but wait a spend. And I'm like, "Yeah, but wait a minute. It's it it's the company's money minute. It's it it's the company's money minute. It's it it's the company's money now. I will spend it the way that I see now. I will spend it the way that I see now. I will spend it the way that I see fit." Well, now they also expect that fit." Well, now they also expect that fit." Well, now they also expect that hockey stick. Yeah. That we're all so uh hockey stick. Yeah. That we're all so uh hockey stick. Yeah. That we're all so uh you know, so used to seeing. So now you know, so used to seeing. So now you know, so used to seeing. So now you've just created a whole new set of you've just created a whole new set of you've just created a whole new set of pressures for yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

pressures for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. pressures for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's it that that whole cultural Again, it's it that that whole cultural Again, it's it that that whole cultural orientation is toward valuation versus orientation is toward valuation versus orientation is toward valuation versus value. Uh I don't I don't see any reason value. Uh I don't I don't see any reason value. Uh I don't I don't see any reason why if you have experience and you've why if you have experience and you've why if you have experience and you've done something and you've built things, done something and you've built things, done something and you've built things, you know how things are built and that you know how things are built and that you know how things are built and that you can't build a business for yourself you can't build a business for yourself you can't build a business for yourself um off of you um and then do that ground um off of you um and then do that ground um off of you um and then do that ground level buildout of whatever it is that level buildout of whatever it is that level buildout of whatever it is that you want to do, whether it eventually you want to do, whether it eventually you want to do, whether it eventually becomes a product or not. Um there's becomes a product or not. Um there's becomes a product or not. Um there's always these foundational fundamental always these foundational fundamental always these foundational fundamental steps that you can take to build a steps that you can take to build a steps that you can take to build a grounded business and nobody thinks grounded business and nobody thinks grounded business and nobody thinks about that about that about that anymore. You know, uh they want the they anymore. You know, uh they want the they anymore. You know, uh they want the they want the money, they want someone, you want the money, they want someone, you want the money, they want someone, you know, it's like, hey, you know, we know, it's like, hey, you know, we know, it's like, hey, you know, we raised our B round or A round or blah raised our B round or A round or blah raised our B round or A round or blah blah blah round and we got like x blah blah round and we got like x blah blah round and we got like x billions of dollars. It's like, okay, billions of dollars. It's like, okay, billions of dollars. It's like, okay, but couldn't you have done a lot of that but couldn't you have done a lot of that but couldn't you have done a lot of that without couldn't you have couldn't you without couldn't you have couldn't you without couldn't you have couldn't you get to where you need to go without get to where you need to go without get to where you need to go without having a crap ton of um you know um VC having a crap ton of um you know um VC having a crap ton of um you know um VC funding? What if you had a product that funding? What if you had a product that funding? What if you had a product that actually worked and somebody wanted it?

actually worked and somebody wanted it? actually worked and somebody wanted it? Yeah. You figured out a way to sell it. Yeah. You figured out a way to sell it. Yeah. You figured out a way to sell it. or are you are you getting VC funding or are you are you getting VC funding or are you are you getting VC funding for a product that nobody wants? You know, it's funny. No, wait a minute. You know, it's funny. No, wait a minute. It's funny that you say that because It's funny that you say that because It's funny that you say that because everyone is talking to us and they're everyone is talking to us and they're everyone is talking to us and they're like, you know, so you know what's your like, you know, so you know what's your like, you know, so you know what's your road map look like? I'm like, what road road map look like? I'm like, what road road map look like? I'm like, what road map? For who? For map? For who? For map? For who? For what? And they're like, you don't have a what? And they're like, you don't have a what? And they're like, you don't have a road map? I'm road map? I'm road map? I'm like, I have I have an internal road map like, I have I have an internal road map like, I have I have an internal road map of things that we will get done when we of things that we will get done when we of things that we will get done when we get these contracts. get these contracts. get these contracts. Yeah. Well, you're not building it now. Yeah. Well, you're not building it now. Yeah. Well, you're not building it now. Why would I build it now? Why would I build it now? Why would I build it now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyone out there just Anyone out there just Anyone out there just starting, build a demo and stop. starting, build a demo and stop. starting, build a demo and stop. Don't go building a Don't go building a Don't go building a uh fullon, okay, now go out and sell it uh fullon, okay, now go out and sell it uh fullon, okay, now go out and sell it because you're invariably going to get because you're invariably going to get because you're invariably going to get it it it wrong. When you get the deal, then build wrong. When you get the deal, then build wrong. When you get the deal, then build it.

it. it. Well, yeah, start off as a I would say Well, yeah, start off as a I would say Well, yeah, start off as a I would say just like start off as a builder and just like start off as a builder and just like start off as a builder and there's so many tools to help you do there's so many tools to help you do there's so many tools to help you do that. Like you said, create the demo. Um that. Like you said, create the demo. Um that. Like you said, create the demo. Um but I think fundamentally everything is but I think fundamentally everything is but I think fundamentally everything is rooted in your insight and ability to rooted in your insight and ability to rooted in your insight and ability to solve a particular problem and then I solve a particular problem and then I solve a particular problem and then I think getting to the point where you can think getting to the point where you can think getting to the point where you can productize it and then scale it as a productize it and then scale it as a productize it and then scale it as a product you know in terms of a general product you know in terms of a general product you know in terms of a general more of a general purpose repeatable more of a general purpose repeatable more of a general purpose repeatable type of thing whether you want to call type of thing whether you want to call type of thing whether you want to call it a platform or not those are things it a platform or not those are things it a platform or not those are things you can get to but I I think it's taking you can get to but I I think it's taking you can get to but I I think it's taking sort of that initial quote unquote sort of that initial quote unquote sort of that initial quote unquote consultative approach where you're consultative approach where you're consultative approach where you're saying I will solve a problem with this saying I will solve a problem with this saying I will solve a problem with this framework. Okay, which I'm going to demo framework. Okay, which I'm going to demo framework. Okay, which I'm going to demo to you and then we will build on that. I to you and then we will build on that. I to you and then we will build on that. I own the IP, but I am we're going to own the IP, but I am we're going to own the IP, but I am we're going to deliver on a project that leverages this deliver on a project that leverages this deliver on a project that leverages this and then we're going to take it to the and then we're going to take it to the and then we're going to take it to the next level. And then you progressively next level. And then you progressively next level. And then you progressively elaborate that thing into a elaborate that thing into a elaborate that thing into a product that and then you know not only product that and then you know not only product that and then you know not only that once and you're you're generating that once and you're you're generating that once and you're you're generating revenue along the way working with revenue along the way working with revenue along the way working with customers and you continue to market customers and you continue to market customers and you continue to market that and then create proof points.

that and then create proof points. that and then create proof points. next thing you know, um, you're on a next thing you know, um, you're on a next thing you know, um, you're on a path to actually building an organic path to actually building an organic path to actually building an organic business, you know, and I think business, you know, and I think business, you know, and I think um, yeah, how come how come people don't um, yeah, how come how come people don't um, yeah, how come how come people don't think about that more? Well, because think about that more? Well, because think about that more? Well, because because it it's because it's a flipping because it it's because it's a flipping because it it's because it's a flipping grind. I mean it it you know like I said grind. I mean it it you know like I said grind. I mean it it you know like I said you know I Smart Connections did great you know I Smart Connections did great you know I Smart Connections did great continues to do great but it was because continues to do great but it was because continues to do great but it was because of all of that that True North was born. of all of that that True North was born. of all of that that True North was born. Yeah. And I wasn't taking any money from Yeah. And I wasn't taking any money from Yeah. And I wasn't taking any money from anyone anyway. So I you know I'm like no anyone anyway. So I you know I'm like no anyone anyway. So I you know I'm like no no no I've seen this movie before on two no no I've seen this movie before on two no no I've seen this movie before on two separate occasions where I walked out separate occasions where I walked out separate occasions where I walked out asking the proctologologist how big his asking the proctologologist how big his asking the proctologologist how big his fist was. fist was. fist was. [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] Okay. Oh my god. Sorry about that, but Okay. Oh my god. Sorry about that, but Okay. Oh my god. Sorry about that, but that's it's the it's the truth. Okay. Oh that's it's the it's the truth. Okay. Oh that's it's the it's the truth. Okay. Oh my gosh. This is going to be the longest my gosh. This is going to be the longest my gosh. This is going to be the longest episode ever. So, we have to wrap this episode ever. So, we have to wrap this episode ever. So, we have to wrap this up. See, this is what happens when Bill up. See, this is what happens when Bill up. See, this is what happens when Bill and I get together and we we don't have and I get together and we we don't have and I get together and we we don't have a timer ticking in the background. Uh a timer ticking in the background. Uh a timer ticking in the background. Uh but man, it was good discussion, but man, it was good discussion, but man, it was good discussion, man. As usual, we weren't able to stick man. As usual, we weren't able to stick man. As usual, we weren't able to stick on topic. Hey, that's all right. That's on topic. Hey, that's all right. That's on topic. Hey, that's all right. That's all right. But I think we hit some nice all right. But I think we hit some nice all right. But I think we hit some nice adjacencies. But hey man, it's it's adjacencies. But hey man, it's it's adjacencies. But hey man, it's it's great chatting with you and let's wrap great chatting with you and let's wrap great chatting with you and let's wrap this up. So, hey everyone, thanks for this up. So, hey everyone, thanks for this up. So, hey everyone, thanks for making it this far. Hopefully it was making it this far. Hopefully it was making it this far. Hopefully it was helpful. Um hopefully you thought that

helpful. Um hopefully you thought that helpful. Um hopefully you thought that this was a little bit different and um this was a little bit different and um this was a little bit different and um more on the constructive side. It was more on the constructive side. It was more on the constructive side. It was fun. It was it was fun and it was fun. It was it was fun and it was fun. It was it was fun and it was honest. Yeah. But hopefully this helps honest. Yeah. But hopefully this helps honest. Yeah. But hopefully this helps the community. Uh, and uh, the community. Uh, and uh, the community. Uh, and uh, also you should bring your ass on the also you should bring your ass on the also you should bring your ass on the show so we can talk about your book. But show so we can talk about your book. But show so we can talk about your book. But uh, yes uh, remember to like, share, and uh, yes uh, remember to like, share, and uh, yes uh, remember to like, share, and comment u, share your thoughts, you comment u, share your thoughts, you comment u, share your thoughts, you know, tell us whether or not you know, tell us whether or not you know, tell us whether or not you disagree with us or you agree with us disagree with us or you agree with us disagree with us or you agree with us and then definitely share because we try and then definitely share because we try and then definitely share because we try to provide this perspective to provide this perspective to provide this perspective um, um, um, as quite frankly a generosity. I mean, as quite frankly a generosity. I mean, as quite frankly a generosity. I mean, we do this for the kids at um um Elevate we do this for the kids at um um Elevate we do this for the kids at um um Elevate Our Kids for our kids at www.elevate our Our Kids for our kids at www.elevate our Our Kids for our kids at www.elevate our kids.org. Remember, please try to uh kids.org. Remember, please try to uh kids.org. Remember, please try to uh donate if you can and uh if you are not donate if you can and uh if you are not donate if you can and uh if you are not into charity, but you're into fashion, into charity, but you're into fashion, into charity, but you're into fashion, you know, we have a lot of merch, just you know, we have a lot of merch, just you know, we have a lot of merch, just go to the website and uh all proceeds go go to the website and uh all proceeds go go to the website and uh all proceeds go to the charity. And um yeah, we really to the charity. And um yeah, we really to the charity. And um yeah, we really appreciate your uh listenership as well appreciate your uh listenership as well appreciate your uh listenership as well as your viewership and we will see you as your viewership and we will see you as your viewership and we will see you next week on another episode of IoT next week on another episode of IoT next week on another episode of IoT Coffee Talk. Take care. Yeah.