IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 185 - Why Is Interoperability So Hard?

see all right okay we're real rob you I see all right okay we're real rob you I should have I should have plugged in my should have I should have plugged in my should have I should have plugged in my guitar this morning to do a little in guitar this morning to do a little in guitar this morning to do a little in who the hell cuz it aining up who the hell cuz it aining up who the hell cuz it aining up I I I know really it's going to be really lame know really it's going to be really lame know really it's going to be really lame y'all about electric y'all about electric y'all about electric guitar Post in post fix it in post wait guitar Post in post fix it in post wait guitar Post in post fix it in post wait a second somebody's got some guitars a second somebody's got some guitars a second somebody's got some guitars hanging in his wall right behind him hanging in his wall right behind him hanging in his wall right behind him there so unless those are just for show they're real they're real they're show they're real they're real they're awesome huh yeah it's fun excellent awesome huh yeah it's fun excellent awesome huh yeah it's fun excellent welcome everybody to iot Coffee Talk and welcome everybody to iot Coffee Talk and welcome everybody to iot Coffee Talk and uh looks like this is a AWS reinvent uh looks like this is a AWS reinvent uh looks like this is a AWS reinvent week doesn't week doesn't week doesn't it yeah I just came back from it yeah I just came back from it yeah I just came back from DC oh okay what's up in DC oh okay what's up in DC oh okay what's up in DC that's where reinvent is no it's not DC that's where reinvent is no it's not DC that's where reinvent is no it's not except that it's in except that it's in except that it's in Vegas where all giant events Vegas where all giant events Vegas where all giant events happen usually it's in happen usually it's in happen usually it's in DC AWS reinvent no it's always it's been DC AWS reinvent no it's always it's been DC AWS reinvent no it's always it's been in Vegas DC do in Vegas DC do in Vegas DC do five years I went like some odd five five years I went like some odd five five years I went like some odd five years straight and it was in years straight and it was in years straight and it was in DC well this year it's in Vegas that DC well this year it's in Vegas that DC well this year it's in Vegas that seemed like a massive in fact I think uh seemed like a massive in fact I think uh seemed like a massive in fact I think uh Adam salitsky said there was like 50,000 Adam salitsky said there was like 50,000 Adam salitsky said there was like 50,000 people there I don't know yeah wow people there I don't know yeah wow people there I don't know yeah wow that's massive yeah it was huge I don't that's massive yeah it was huge I don't that's massive yeah it was huge I don't know what the venue was for his keynote know what the venue was for his keynote know what the venue was for his keynote but looked pretty massive I don't know but looked pretty massive I don't know but looked pretty massive I don't know was like the Raiders stadium or was like the Raiders stadium or was like the Raiders stadium or something yeah something crazy know

something yeah something crazy know something yeah something crazy know there were there were a lot of guys I there were there were a lot of guys I there were there were a lot of guys I was at smart cities was at smart cities was at smart cities connect oh yeah that's in DC yeah yeah connect oh yeah that's in DC yeah yeah connect oh yeah that's in DC yeah yeah okay yeah yeah so how was that what's okay yeah yeah so how was that what's okay yeah yeah so how was that what's the latest with smart the latest with smart the latest with smart cities the the latest with smart cities cities the the latest with smart cities cities the the latest with smart cities is that stops calling it smart is that stops calling it smart is that stops calling it smart cities what are we calling it connected cities what are we calling it connected cities what are we calling it connected communities this is what happens when communities this is what happens when communities this is what happens when your big thing doesn't work out and you your big thing doesn't work out and you your big thing doesn't work out and you have to change the name to have to change the name to have to change the name to Pivot the same thing that happened when Pivot the same thing that happened when Pivot the same thing that happened when we change from machine to machine iot we change from machine to machine iot we change from machine to machine iot isn't it and then we stopped saying iot isn't it and then we stopped saying iot isn't it and then we stopped saying iot because it didn't work out either that's because it didn't work out either that's because it didn't work out either that's right I mean it's inevitable right I right I mean it's inevitable right I right I mean it's inevitable right I mean I'm I'm it's the acronyms and the mean I'm I'm it's the acronyms and the mean I'm I'm it's the acronyms and the names and all of this stuff I'm like we names and all of this stuff I'm like we names and all of this stuff I'm like we should just stop it yeah you know the should just stop it yeah you know the should just stop it yeah you know the smart grid the hell is so smart about it smart grid the hell is so smart about it smart grid the hell is so smart about it right but connected Community sounds right but connected Community sounds right but connected Community sounds good I mean who would be against that I good I mean who would be against that I good I mean who would be against that I mean yeah right right it's for the mean yeah right right it's for the mean yeah right right it's for the people apple pie you know who doesn't people apple pie you know who doesn't people apple pie you know who doesn't like like apple pie we've got connective like like apple pie we've got connective like like apple pie we've got connective communities come on over we're communities come on over we're communities come on over we're barbecuing it's be barbecuing it's be barbecuing it's be great exactly come on over bring your great exactly come on over bring your great exactly come on over bring your pie your apple pie and Brier's vanilla pie your apple pie and Brier's vanilla pie your apple pie and Brier's vanilla come come come on of July thing you know yeah on of July thing you know yeah on of July thing you know yeah absolutely yeah no there's um there's a absolutely yeah no there's um there's a absolutely yeah no there's um there's a uh a an actual I couldn't get them to uh a an actual I couldn't get them to uh a an actual I couldn't get them to change the name but there's an actual change the name but there's an actual change the name but there's an actual Smart City Smart City Smart City standard that is being proposed by

standard that is being proposed by standard that is being proposed by nist yeah okay nist yeah okay nist yeah okay and it'll be out for public review in and it'll be out for public review in and it'll be out for public review in two weeks they're going to run it for two weeks they're going to run it for two weeks they're going to run it for like six weeks and um I'm one of the like six weeks and um I'm one of the like six weeks and um I'm one of the contributing members for that oh God contributing members for that oh God contributing members for that oh God yeah yes well it's even Rob it's even yeah yes well it's even Rob it's even yeah yes well it's even Rob it's even worse I talked to Bens and Chan worse I talked to Bens and Chan worse I talked to Bens and Chan yesterday for an hour and a half about yesterday for an hour and a half about yesterday for an hour and a half about it too so you know between them Mall God it too so you know between them Mall God it too so you know between them Mall God only knows what's going to come out of only knows what's going to come out of only knows what's going to come out of that that's kind of weird though that that's kind of weird though that that's kind of weird though thinking a smart City standard smart thinking a smart City standard smart thinking a smart City standard smart city is is a giant complex made up of a city is is a giant complex made up of a city is is a giant complex made up of a zillion connected Community connect zillion connected Community connect zillion connected Community connect Community yeah you know yeah how do you Community yeah you know yeah how do you Community yeah you know yeah how do you standardize that what does that mean standardize that what does that mean standardize that what does that mean what is that a standard of what you know what is that a standard of what you know what is that a standard of what you know what it what it really is is it's more what it what it really is is it's more what it what it really is is it's more around everything from layer one to around everything from layer one to around everything from layer one to layer seven so best practices kind of uh layer seven so best practices kind of uh layer seven so best practices kind of uh it's more about interoperability how do it's more about interoperability how do it's more about interoperability how do you get the systems to talk to each you get the systems to talk to each you get the systems to talk to each other how do you leverage the data other how do you leverage the data other how do you leverage the data that's coming out of those systems right that's coming out of those systems right that's coming out of those systems right uh I mean we just had EMQ on right yeah uh I mean we just had EMQ on right yeah uh I mean we just had EMQ on right yeah message bus is hugely message bus is hugely message bus is hugely important I mean a broker is hugely important I mean a broker is hugely important I mean a broker is hugely important uh if you're going to have important uh if you're going to have important uh if you're going to have these systems talking to each these systems talking to each these systems talking to each other that's part of it you know if you other that's part of it you know if you other that's part of it you know if you were some kind of oldtime Microsoft guy were some kind of oldtime Microsoft guy were some kind of oldtime Microsoft guy you would say you just need to implement you would say you just need to implement you would say you just need to implement bis talk to facilitate bis talk to facilitate bis talk to facilitate interoperability Rob you're on the verge interoperability Rob you're on the verge interoperability Rob you're on the verge of getting cancelled yeah luckily I'm of getting cancelled yeah luckily I'm of getting cancelled yeah luckily I'm already luckily I'm pre- canell

already luckily I'm pre- canell already luckily I'm pre- canell I'm already good I'm I'm living in a I'm already good I'm I'm living in a I'm already good I'm I'm living in a bunker in New Zealand I was already bunker in New Zealand I was already bunker in New Zealand I was already cancelled and but I had I got the cancel cancelled and but I had I got the cancel cancelled and but I had I got the cancel insurance policy in case you oh okay insurance policy in case you oh okay insurance policy in case you oh okay that's important it is it's good I that's important it is it's good I that's important it is it's good I highly recommend everybody involved in highly recommend everybody involved in highly recommend everybody involved in Connected communities to get that Connected communities to get that Connected communities to get that insurance policy you know I was given insurance policy you know I was given insurance policy you know I was given the idea by Sarah Silverman on her TV ad the idea by Sarah Silverman on her TV ad the idea by Sarah Silverman on her TV ad and so I was like oh yeah I better get and so I was like oh yeah I better get and so I was like oh yeah I better get that insurance policy proba be canceled that insurance policy proba be canceled that insurance policy proba be canceled for sure yeah that's it that's it no so for sure yeah that's it that's it no so for sure yeah that's it that's it no so I mean I just think it's I think it's I mean I just think it's I think it's I mean I just think it's I think it's important I think the conversation is important I think the conversation is important I think the conversation is important let's take the name away but important let's take the name away but important let's take the name away but when you know we we've talked about this when you know we we've talked about this when you know we we've talked about this several times on on coffee talk is that several times on on coffee talk is that several times on on coffee talk is that interoperability is lacking for all interoperability is lacking for all interoperability is lacking for all intents and purposes when we look at any intents and purposes when we look at any intents and purposes when we look at any of these things and and it and it does of these things and and it and it does of these things and and it and it does it does go all the way back to uh it does go all the way back to uh it does go all the way back to uh rtu rtus are still a thing that's it's rtu rtus are still a thing that's it's rtu rtus are still a thing that's it's it it's not going to go it it's not going to go it it's not going to go away away away just like mod mod bus just like mod bus just like mod mod bus just like mod bus just like mod mod bus just like mod bus and some of the yeah they're not gonna and some of the yeah they're not gonna and some of the yeah they're not gonna go away yeah no I like the idea of best go away yeah no I like the idea of best go away yeah no I like the idea of best practices so that everyone can sort of practices so that everyone can sort of practices so that everyone can sort of snap to what's worked and then if you're snap to what's worked and then if you're snap to what's worked and then if you're developing it then you know what to kind developing it then you know what to kind developing it then you know what to kind of snap your solution to to get better of snap your solution to to get better of snap your solution to to get better adoption I think that kind of makes adoption I think that kind of makes adoption I think that kind of makes sense you know especially in a lot of sense you know especially in a lot of sense you know especially in a lot of these different scenarios to have best these different scenarios to have best these different scenarios to have best practices and examples and then you know practices and examples and then you know practices and examples and then you know some community connected Community for some community connected Community for some community connected Community for help to get there yeah I guess when you help to get there yeah I guess when you help to get there yeah I guess when you say standards I'm thinking like i e or

say standards I'm thinking like i e or say standards I'm thinking like i e or 3gpp and I think it's well you know it's 3gpp and I think it's well you know it's 3gpp and I think it's well you know it's funny because I E IPO ISO all of them funny because I E IPO ISO all of them funny because I E IPO ISO all of them are doing bits and pieces of this sure are doing bits and pieces of this sure are doing bits and pieces of this sure but it's you do you do need something but it's you do you do need something but it's you do you do need something like n that actually says we've like n that actually says we've like n that actually says we've implemented implemented implemented it and here are the things that we did it and here are the things that we did it and here are the things that we did from s from sensor here to from s from sensor here to from s from sensor here to Enterprise uh application whether it be Enterprise uh application whether it be Enterprise uh application whether it be in the data center in the cloud wherever in the data center in the cloud wherever in the data center in the cloud wherever it is and the Flight of the packets it is and the Flight of the packets it is and the Flight of the packets happens in this fashion right but Bill happens in this fashion right but Bill happens in this fashion right but Bill is it you said Implement um is this or I is it you said Implement um is this or I is it you said Implement um is this or I didn't think your committees were didn't think your committees were didn't think your committees were implementing anything except providing implementing anything except providing implementing anything except providing suggestions for policy but the suggestions for policy but the suggestions for policy but the suggestions come from real case studies suggestions come from real case studies suggestions come from real case studies oh okay so it's not imp so you guys oh okay so it's not imp so you guys oh okay so it's not imp so you guys aren't implementing anything it's it's aren't implementing anything it's it's aren't implementing anything it's it's coming from implementations that have coming from implementations that have coming from implementations that have occurred right so like cities that I occurred right so like cities that I occurred right so like cities that I work with we will go through and do work with we will go through and do work with we will go through and do these things and I can say for example these things and I can say for example these things and I can say for example this is how it happened in Coral Gables this is how it happened in Coral Gables this is how it happened in Coral Gables this is how it happened in in Sunnyvale this is how it happened in in Sunnyvale this is how it happened in in Sunnyvale this is how it happened in Newark this this is how it happened in Newark this this is how it happened in Newark this is how I mean so there's a there's a a is how I mean so there's a there's a a is how I mean so there's a there's a a group of us that have actually done it group of us that have actually done it group of us that have actually done it actually do it right we're not actually do it right we're not actually do it right we're not postulating I thought you just talked postulating I thought you just talked postulating I thought you just talked about this stuff you you you actually about this stuff you you you actually about this stuff you you you actually get your hands dirty you do stuff yeah get your hands dirty you do stuff yeah get your hands dirty you do stuff yeah yeah I think yes who actually do it yeah I think yes who actually do it yeah I think yes who actually do it wow don't just don't just talk about it

wow don't just don't just talk about it wow don't just don't just talk about it be about it be about it about it I be about it be about it about it I be about it be about it about it I like there are a lot of talkers out like there are a lot of talkers out like there are a lot of talkers out there for there for there for sure haven't really done anything for those you know interoperability has been those you know interoperability has been a thing we've talked about forever yes a thing we've talked about forever yes a thing we've talked about forever yes with iot and everything and digital with iot and everything and digital with iot and everything and digital Twins and stuff like that and it's Twins and stuff like that and it's Twins and stuff like that and it's always been a problem and people go well always been a problem and people go well always been a problem and people go well you need to stick to the standards well you need to stick to the standards well you need to stick to the standards well the problem is all these weird things the problem is all these weird things the problem is all these weird things they actually are all standards they they actually are all standards they they actually are all standards they just AR ubiquitous standards you know just AR ubiquitous standards you know just AR ubiquitous standards you know pick your standard but the issue is the pick your standard but the issue is the pick your standard but the issue is the there's this is like um this is a there's this is like um this is a there's this is like um this is a paradox of Technology Paradox that you paradox of Technology Paradox that you paradox of Technology Paradox that you know nobody wants to be know nobody wants to be know nobody wants to be commoditized and so and everyone wants commoditized and so and everyone wants commoditized and so and everyone wants to differentiate and maybe get a little to differentiate and maybe get a little to differentiate and maybe get a little bit of lock in and so this idea of like bit of lock in and so this idea of like bit of lock in and so this idea of like let's all sort of uh you know snap to a let's all sort of uh you know snap to a let's all sort of uh you know snap to a standard it's hard especially as standard it's hard especially as standard it's hard especially as technolog is evolving quickly um for technolog is evolving quickly um for technolog is evolving quickly um for people to you know to do that I I people to you know to do that I I people to you know to do that I I remember in this in the semiconductor remember in this in the semiconductor remember in this in the semiconductor world we were working with everyone on world we were working with everyone on world we were working with everyone on AI tool chains and like you know AI tool chains and like you know AI tool chains and like you know everyone's got all these like a dozen everyone's got all these like a dozen everyone's got all these like a dozen different tool chains for AI blah blah different tool chains for AI blah blah different tool chains for AI blah blah blah it's like well can we just kind of blah it's like well can we just kind of blah it's like well can we just kind of get it a little model portability here get it a little model portability here get it a little model portability here or whatever and everyone's like whoa or whatever and everyone's like whoa or whatever and everyone's like whoa whoa whoa hey I don't want to dumb down whoa whoa hey I don't want to dumb down whoa whoa hey I don't want to dumb down my tool chain to make it interoperable my tool chain to make it interoperable my tool chain to make it interoperable with someone else's dumb tool chain with someone else's dumb tool chain with someone else's dumb tool chain because mine's a smart tool chain blah because mine's a smart tool chain blah because mine's a smart tool chain blah blah blah and so it's just like this blah blah and so it's just like this blah blah and so it's just like this thing like whether it's connected thing like whether it's connected thing like whether it's connected communities or AI or whatever when you

communities or AI or whatever when you communities or AI or whatever when you get a bunch of tech together nobody get a bunch of tech together nobody get a bunch of tech together nobody wants to to kind of dumb down their Tech wants to to kind of dumb down their Tech wants to to kind of dumb down their Tech to to snap to a standard which to to snap to a standard which to to snap to a standard which inevitably is behind whatever Tech they inevitably is behind whatever Tech they inevitably is behind whatever Tech they have or whatever they're building right have or whatever they're building right have or whatever they're building right so this is like a tension that will last so this is like a tension that will last so this is like a tension that will last for for the next thousand years I think for for the next thousand years I think for for the next thousand years I think yeah I think 100% y yeah we've decided yeah I think 100% y yeah we've decided yeah I think 100% y yeah we've decided that we're going to snap to the Internet that we're going to snap to the Internet that we're going to snap to the Internet Explorer 6 standard versus Baseline that's the Baseline I6 is what Baseline that's the Baseline I6 is what we've locked into it doesn't work with we've locked into it doesn't work with we've locked into it doesn't work with anything else there you go I figured I anything else there you go I figured I anything else there you go I figured I figured you were just gonna say Windows figured you were just gonna say Windows figured you were just gonna say Windows NT and just leave it at that oh wait NT and just leave it at that oh wait NT and just leave it at that oh wait wait there's got to be a lot of love for wait there's got to be a lot of love for wait there's got to be a lot of love for Windows Windows Windows n you know as much as there is for n you know as much as there is for n you know as much as there is for CE no but Windows NT you know Dave CE no but Windows NT you know Dave CE no but Windows NT you know Dave Cutler and Company all our guys from Cutler and Company all our guys from Cutler and Company all our guys from digital who came over and changed the digital who came over and changed the digital who came over and changed the world don't for get folks the second world don't for get folks the second world don't for get folks the second largest CL Cloud on the planet is run on largest CL Cloud on the planet is run on largest CL Cloud on the planet is run on the NT kernel don't ever forget that the NT kernel don't ever forget that the NT kernel don't ever forget that that Azure is in under the covers it's that Azure is in under the covers it's that Azure is in under the covers it's 100 built on the Kernel so that's why I 100 built on the Kernel so that's why I 100 built on the Kernel so that's why I thought that's where you were going yeah thought that's where you were going yeah thought that's where you were going yeah so it is interoperable it can run your so it is interoperable it can run your so it is interoperable it can run your Linux workloads does everything you know I workloads does everything you know I mean but but but Pete Pete's right it mean but but but Pete Pete's right it mean but but but Pete Pete's right it it's it's um it's it's really it's it's um it's it's really it's it's um it's it's really interesting when you start to when you interesting when you start to when you interesting when you start to when you start to look at you know the standards start to look at you know the standards start to look at you know the standards right I mean because we again we've said

right I mean because we again we've said right I mean because we again we've said this several times you can have a this several times you can have a this several times you can have a standard and you go yes I'm compliant standard and you go yes I'm compliant standard and you go yes I'm compliant know we leverage this standard but how know we leverage this standard but how know we leverage this standard but how did you implement it that's true yeah did you implement it that's true yeah did you implement it that's true yeah and and open source and Open Standards and and open source and Open Standards and and open source and Open Standards are somewhat are somewhat are somewhat oxymorons right oxymorons right oxymorons right because any software developer that says because any software developer that says because any software developer that says yeah we're are we're it's all open yeah we're are we're it's all open yeah we're are we're it's all open source is not one of two things either source is not one of two things either source is not one of two things either they're not looking to monetize their they're not looking to monetize their they're not looking to monetize their themselves and their and their themselves and their and their themselves and their and their Solutions or they have built on top of Solutions or they have built on top of Solutions or they have built on top of that open source and created a level of that open source and created a level of that open source and created a level of proprietari proprietari proprietari proprietari proprietary a little veneer proprietari proprietary a little veneer proprietari proprietary a little veneer of proprietary goo that they can of proprietary goo that they can of proprietary goo that they can monetize you have to you have to because monetize you have to you have to because monetize you have to you have to because some you need to get paid people need to some you need to get paid people need to some you need to get paid people need to get paid so either you're the customer get paid so either you're the customer get paid so either you're the customer and you want it for free or you're the and you want it for free or you're the and you want it for free or you're the you're the technology implementer and you're the technology implementer and you're the technology implementer and you need to monetize I mean someone's you need to monetize I mean someone's you need to monetize I mean someone's got back to how we started this talk got back to how we started this talk got back to how we started this talk here AWS reinvent a whole bunch of here AWS reinvent a whole bunch of here AWS reinvent a whole bunch of people in Vegas talking about this giant people in Vegas talking about this giant people in Vegas talking about this giant Cloud that they built 100% on the backs Cloud that they built 100% on the backs Cloud that they built 100% on the backs of Open Source Technologies and they've of Open Source Technologies and they've of Open Source Technologies and they've monetized the out of it you know monetized the out of it you know monetized the out of it you know because of their proprietary pieces that because of their proprietary pieces that because of their proprietary pieces that they put in there yes they put in there yes they put in there yes yeah because you know I you always hear yeah because you know I you always hear yeah because you know I you always hear about lots of Open Source folks who about lots of Open Source folks who about lots of Open Source folks who actually contribute and build the stuff actually contribute and build the stuff actually contribute and build the stuff and they I don't want to say they hate and they I don't want to say they hate and they I don't want to say they hate AWS but they feel like they got screwed AWS but they feel like they got screwed AWS but they feel like they got screwed over or something and you know Andy

over or something and you know Andy over or something and you know Andy jasse is like you said we could use it jasse is like you said we could use it jasse is like you said we could use it it's open source you know and they're it's open source you know and they're it's open source you know and they're like yeah but we didn't realize that like yeah but we didn't realize that like yeah but we didn't realize that we'd not get paid and you guys are we'd not get paid and you guys are we'd not get paid and you guys are making making making trillions I mean and that's the I think trillions I mean and that's the I think trillions I mean and that's the I think that's the large debate around because that's the large debate around because that's the large debate around because I'm I mean I'm huge on open source I'm I'm I mean I'm huge on open source I'm I'm I mean I'm huge on open source I'm also huge on building on top of also huge on building on top of also huge on building on top of it yeah I mean absolutely well people it yeah I mean absolutely well people it yeah I mean absolutely well people need to get paid though because they need to get paid though because they need to get paid though because they also even let me look at red hat and also even let me look at red hat and also even let me look at red hat and canonical and all these folks you know canonical and all these folks you know canonical and all these folks you know it's one thing to kind of get something it's one thing to kind of get something it's one thing to kind of get something up and running and then it's to kind of up and running and then it's to kind of up and running and then it's to kind of support it and and all these other support it and and all these other support it and and all these other things people need to get there needs to things people need to get there needs to things people need to get there needs to be Monet you know incentive for people be Monet you know incentive for people be Monet you know incentive for people to support things and make things work to support things and make things work to support things and make things work and you know open source is good and and you know open source is good and and you know open source is good and it's a great Foundation but at the end it's a great Foundation but at the end it's a great Foundation but at the end of the day like if you're a connected of the day like if you're a connected of the day like if you're a connected community and you need to take a community and you need to take a community and you need to take a dependency on somebody they need to get dependency on somebody they need to get dependency on somebody they need to get paid they're not going to do it for free paid they're not going to do it for free paid they're not going to do it for free so yeah that's for sure there I feel so yeah that's for sure there I feel so yeah that's for sure there I feel like I spent my whole life being this like I spent my whole life being this like I spent my whole life being this SQL Server guy and then when I left SQL Server guy and then when I left SQL Server guy and then when I left Microsoft and went to Hitachi and I met Microsoft and went to Hitachi and I met Microsoft and went to Hitachi and I met all these other people who are like who all these other people who are like who all these other people who are like who uses that stuff and I'm like what I uses that stuff and I'm like what I uses that stuff and I'm like what I thought everybody used SQL server and thought everybody used SQL server and thought everybody used SQL server and they're like nobody uses that they use they're like nobody uses that they use they're like nobody uses that they use post press or they use my sequel or post press or they use my sequel or post press or they use my sequel or Maria sequel yeah and and I remember it Maria sequel yeah and and I remember it Maria sequel yeah and and I remember it was yeah I remember the the culture was yeah I remember the the culture was yeah I remember the the culture shock for me actually you know in fact shock for me actually you know in fact shock for me actually you know in fact that was a culture shock just going from

that was a culture shock just going from that was a culture shock just going from clearly 100% almost proprietary World clearly 100% almost proprietary World clearly 100% almost proprietary World which I didn't think I think they people which I didn't think I think they people which I didn't think I think they people use the word proprietary in a derogatory use the word proprietary in a derogatory use the word proprietary in a derogatory sense for some reason um to this world sense for some reason um to this world sense for some reason um to this world where it's like 100% of everything we're where it's like 100% of everything we're where it's like 100% of everything we're doing and building on is on open source doing and building on is on open source doing and building on is on open source stuff just like everybody else has been stuff just like everybody else has been stuff just like everybody else has been doing for the last decade in Silicon doing for the last decade in Silicon doing for the last decade in Silicon Valley and it was Valley and it was Valley and it was and I I remember struggling you know and I I remember struggling you know and I I remember struggling you know when we were building lumata Itachi I when we were building lumata Itachi I when we were building lumata Itachi I was just like and I go well but what was just like and I go well but what was just like and I go well but what about supportability you know because about supportability you know because about supportability you know because you guys you know one of the things you guys you know one of the things you guys you know one of the things people say when they decide to adopt a people say when they decide to adopt a people say when they decide to adopt a particular open source whatever database particular open source whatever database particular open source whatever database message CU whatever they always say well message CU whatever they always say well message CU whatever they always say well it's got to have a big Community around it's got to have a big Community around it's got to have a big Community around it a vibrant active Community AKA I need it a vibrant active Community AKA I need it a vibrant active Community AKA I need support you know or and I don't want to support you know or and I don't want to support you know or and I don't want to pay for it and I don't want to pay for pay for it and I don't want to pay for pay for it and I don't want to pay for it because we don't want it to turn out it because we don't want it to turn out it because we don't want it to turn out like like the whole open SSL debacle like like the whole open SSL debacle like like the whole open SSL debacle where you found out it was one guy where you found out it was one guy where you found out it was one guy supporting op SSL part-time for the supporting op SSL part-time for the supporting op SSL part-time for the entire planet that all took a dependency entire planet that all took a dependency entire planet that all took a dependency on that on that on that stuff that was a no bueno scenario for stuff that was a no bueno scenario for stuff that was a no bueno scenario for there's a balance there speaking of there's a balance there speaking of there's a balance there speaking of reinvent should we uh I feel like reinvent should we uh I feel like reinvent should we uh I feel like Leonard's probably I think he's Leonard's probably I think he's Leonard's probably I think he's listening in maybe no he's he dropped listening in maybe no he's he dropped listening in maybe no he's he dropped off he dropped off okay yeah but any off he dropped off okay yeah but any off he dropped off okay yeah but any thoughts on reinvent this week and all thoughts on reinvent this week and all thoughts on reinvent this week and all of the Amazon Q is coming and uh s of of the Amazon Q is coming and uh s of of the Amazon Q is coming and uh s of exciting AI you know was like it was exciting AI you know was like it was exciting AI you know was like it was slathered on pretty thick the AI and I slathered on pretty thick the AI and I slathered on pretty thick the AI and I thought there were some really nice thought there were some really nice thought there were some really nice sharp elbows to Microsoft too in the in

sharp elbows to Microsoft too in the in sharp elbows to Microsoft too in the in the keynote but that was pretty nice oh the keynote but that was pretty nice oh the keynote but that was pretty nice oh yeah entertaining well he was talking yeah entertaining well he was talking yeah entertaining well he was talking about like basically like you need to about like basically like you need to about like basically like you need to like you know work with a company that like you know work with a company that like you know work with a company that that focuses on Safety and Security and that focuses on Safety and Security and that focuses on Safety and Security and provides choice and you know the the the provides choice and you know the the the provides choice and you know the the the events of the past 10 days kind of you events of the past 10 days kind of you events of the past 10 days kind of you know show that blah blah blah and it was know show that blah blah blah and it was know show that blah blah blah and it was like a you know he was and they showed like a you know he was and they showed like a you know he was and they showed some screenshots and they were I mean he some screenshots and they were I mean he some screenshots and they were I mean he was you know he didn't say the word was you know he didn't say the word was you know he didn't say the word Microsoft but might as well yeah listen Microsoft but might as well yeah listen Microsoft but might as well yeah listen that's that's you know what that's what that's that's you know what that's what that's that's you know what that's what that damn show and the Keynotes all that damn show and the Keynotes all that damn show and the Keynotes all about because even if you look back the about because even if you look back the about because even if you look back the last couple years when I did go I mean last couple years when I did go I mean last couple years when I did go I mean every time he they get up there and talk every time he they get up there and talk every time he they get up there and talk about their crap it's controversial it's about their crap it's controversial it's about their crap it's controversial it's you know they're allowed to oh ra it was you know they're allowed to oh ra it was you know they're allowed to oh ra it was interesting positioning of like there interesting positioning of like there interesting positioning of like there you know the AI where where AWS is you know the AI where where AWS is you know the AI where where AWS is coming from on AI versus you know the coming from on AI versus you know the coming from on AI versus you know the other the other folks well listen it's a other the other folks well listen it's a other the other folks well listen it's a it's it's true though I mean if you look it's it's true though I mean if you look it's it's true though I mean if you look at what you know the last 10 days I mean at what you know the last 10 days I mean at what you know the last 10 days I mean there's a lot of people they're going to there's a lot of people they're going to there's a lot of people they're going to have to make a decision on what have to make a decision on what have to make a decision on what direction they go and and and we're direction they go and and and we're direction they go and and and we're talking about big companies making talking about big companies making talking about big companies making decisions so yeah that's true taking a decisions so yeah that's true taking a decisions so yeah that's true taking a dependency on open AI is going to be dependency on open AI is going to be dependency on open AI is going to be it's not a no-brainer anymore yeah it's not a no-brainer anymore yeah it's not a no-brainer anymore yeah exactly yeah and you know if you're a exactly yeah and you know if you're a exactly yeah and you know if you're a CTO and you're going down the road with CTO and you're going down the road with CTO and you're going down the road with you know that company and you gota right you know that company and you gota right you know that company and you gota right you got to kind of think about where you got to kind of think about where you got to kind of think about where you're going with this it's almost like you're going with this it's almost like you're going with this it's almost like you know we have a multicloud world now you know we have a multicloud world now you know we have a multicloud world now like no major company takes a dependency like no major company takes a dependency like no major company takes a dependency on one Cloud anymore it's always

on one Cloud anymore it's always on one Cloud anymore it's always multicloud and I think probably you'll multicloud and I think probably you'll multicloud and I think probably you'll have multi- aai a little anthropic in have multi- aai a little anthropic in have multi- aai a little anthropic in here a little open AI a little this a here a little open AI a little this a here a little open AI a little this a little that okay but okay so I'm gonna little that okay but okay so I'm gonna little that okay but okay so I'm gonna so Pete so Pete so Pete interoperability how you going to do interoperability how you going to do interoperability how you going to do that right that right that right you're long time I'm G you're long time I'm G you're long time I'm G use yeah that's right I'm gonna use my use yeah that's right I'm gonna use my use yeah that's right I'm gonna use my GitHub co-pilot to fix that make these things work together that make these things work together that's my prompt let's go let's go to that's my prompt let's go let's go to that's my prompt let's go let's go to Lithuania Lithuania Lithuania coot oh my gosh but I mean there's a you coot oh my gosh but I mean there's a you coot oh my gosh but I mean there's a you know it's interesting because it's know it's interesting because it's know it's interesting because it's almost like there's a a semi middleware almost like there's a a semi middleware almost like there's a a semi middleware business to be had there you know think business to be had there you know think business to be had there you know think about you know how are how are you going about you know how are how are you going about you know how are how are you going to use to use to use multiple you know companies and their multiple you know companies and their multiple you know companies and their platforms as it relates to that and then platforms as it relates to that and then platforms as it relates to that and then how do you you know what is it you know how do you you know what is it you know how do you you know what is it you know Rob I'm G to go back you know are we Rob I'm G to go back you know are we Rob I'm G to go back you know are we going for least cost routing are we going for least cost routing are we going for least cost routing are we going for best coverage or lowest Pro so going for best coverage or lowest Pro so going for best coverage or lowest Pro so what do we do in this you know and when what do we do in this you know and when what do we do in this you know and when we do that around AI you know you do a we do that around AI you know you do a we do that around AI you know you do a multiple platforms but I mean but what multiple platforms but I mean but what multiple platforms but I mean but what problem are you trying to solve is is problem are you trying to solve is is problem are you trying to solve is is your client's problem your client's your client's problem your client's your client's problem your client's problem well it it is but I mean I I I problem well it it is but I mean I I I problem well it it is but I mean I I I still I don't know I I had I had I had still I don't know I I had I had I had still I don't know I I had I had I had such conversations around AI because now such conversations around AI because now such conversations around AI because now every conference has an AI track yeah every conference has an AI track yeah every conference has an AI track yeah and and I'm still you know oh we have and and I'm still you know oh we have and and I'm still you know oh we have our Ai and I'm like oh okay so talk to

our Ai and I'm like oh okay so talk to our Ai and I'm like oh okay so talk to me about that you know what is it me about that you know what is it me about that you know what is it doing when it's merely a component to an doing when it's merely a component to an doing when it's merely a component to an end solution so then what problem are end solution so then what problem are end solution so then what problem are you solving with this magical you solving with this magical you solving with this magical AI better better than the AI let's talk better better than the AI let's talk about your machine learning algorithms about your machine learning algorithms about your machine learning algorithms and how much storage and compute those and how much storage and compute those and how much storage and compute those things things things take yeah yeah right Pete did you know take yeah yeah right Pete did you know take yeah yeah right Pete did you know at Microsoft did you know a guy named at Microsoft did you know a guy named at Microsoft did you know a guy named Ron aah hobby yeah I know Ron yeah yeah Ron aah hobby yeah I know Ron yeah yeah Ron aah hobby yeah I know Ron yeah yeah kind of standards and stuff yeah yeah Mr kind of standards and stuff yeah yeah Mr kind of standards and stuff yeah yeah Mr standards yeah because yeah he kind of standards yeah because yeah he kind of standards yeah because yeah he kind of works for the OMG guys you know works for the OMG guys you know works for the OMG guys you know yeah and so yeah I knew him from back yeah and so yeah I knew him from back yeah and so yeah I knew him from back then and then I've been plugged in with then and then I've been plugged in with then and then I've been plugged in with him you know we're actually G to put on him you know we're actually G to put on him you know we're actually G to put on a conference next summer in a conference next summer in a conference next summer in Vegas called transform like I've never Vegas called transform like I've never Vegas called transform like I've never been to a conference called transform been to a conference called transform been to a conference called transform before but anyway it's is that your before but anyway it's is that your before but anyway it's is that your marketing team that came up with that marketing team that came up with that marketing team that came up with that idea I don't know transform I would call idea I don't know transform I would call idea I don't know transform I would call it TRN z f RM trans it looks like we're it TRN z f RM trans it looks like we're it TRN z f RM trans it looks like we're going to be kind of co-hosted or inside going to be kind of co-hosted or inside going to be kind of co-hosted or inside um what is it infocom I don't know um what is it infocom I don't know um what is it infocom I don't know whoever else's confence that's got about whoever else's confence that's got about whoever else's confence that's got about about 30,000 but it's funny talking you about 30,000 but it's funny talking you about 30,000 but it's funny talking you know because I was on a call early this know because I was on a call early this know because I was on a call early this morning you know he's I think he's in morning you know he's I think he's in morning you know he's I think he's in Boston or something and U these people Boston or something and U these people Boston or something and U these people Marland yeah okay yeah and so it's like Marland yeah okay yeah and so it's like Marland yeah okay yeah and so it's like a digital transformation event and of a digital transformation event and of a digital transformation event and of course it's all everybody's talking

course it's all everybody's talking course it's all everybody's talking about AI this and AI that and stuff like about AI this and AI that and stuff like about AI this and AI that and stuff like that and yeah you know well everyone that and yeah you know well everyone that and yeah you know well everyone needs an AI strategy doesn't mean you needs an AI strategy doesn't mean you needs an AI strategy doesn't mean you need to necessarily use AI but you need need to necessarily use AI but you need need to necessarily use AI but you need at least to have a strategy about where at least to have a strategy about where at least to have a strategy about where could be applicable and then like I said could be applicable and then like I said could be applicable and then like I said I think people are going to be you know I think people are going to be you know I think people are going to be you know hedging their bets on what and hedging their bets on what and hedging their bets on what and especially if it's Mission critical like especially if it's Mission critical like especially if it's Mission critical like if you were in a going back to Connected if you were in a going back to Connected if you were in a going back to Connected communities if you have some sort of communities if you have some sort of communities if you have some sort of like you know safety security system like you know safety security system like you know safety security system that's using EDI vision and things like that's using EDI vision and things like that's using EDI vision and things like that you know you're obviously doing that you know you're obviously doing that you know you're obviously doing hopefully a lot of edge Ai and you're hopefully a lot of edge Ai and you're hopefully a lot of edge Ai and you're you not taking dependency on a anthropic you not taking dependency on a anthropic you not taking dependency on a anthropic or a open AI at all hopefully um but you or a open AI at all hopefully um but you or a open AI at all hopefully um but you know for all the other stuff that you're know for all the other stuff that you're know for all the other stuff that you're doing and number crunching you probably doing and number crunching you probably doing and number crunching you probably want to be able to be be able to kind of want to be able to be be able to kind of want to be able to be be able to kind of swap things around and have some swap things around and have some swap things around and have some flexibility just like you know I can use flexibility just like you know I can use flexibility just like you know I can use Azure Arc or any of these kind of Azure Arc or any of these kind of Azure Arc or any of these kind of kubernetes orchestration platforms to kubernetes orchestration platforms to kubernetes orchestration platforms to manage multicloud Solutions I'm going to manage multicloud Solutions I'm going to manage multicloud Solutions I'm going to want to manage multi- AI Solutions as want to manage multi- AI Solutions as want to manage multi- AI Solutions as well somehow so that I'm not locked well somehow so that I'm not locked well somehow so that I'm not locked in I think you got a great idea for a in I think you got a great idea for a in I think you got a great idea for a new startup yeah I ai orchestration new startup yeah I ai orchestration new startup yeah I ai orchestration orchestration ai let me go Reserve that orchestration ai let me go Reserve that orchestration ai let me go Reserve that my God it's AI it's AI flow to the my God it's AI it's AI flow to the my God it's AI it's AI flow to the rescue yeah I think you should start rescue yeah I think you should start rescue yeah I think you should start building that middleware thing right now building that middleware thing right now building that middleware thing right now you know it's the glue well this is the you know it's the glue well this is the you know it's the glue well this is the this is the Dirty Work This is the glue this is the Dirty Work This is the glue this is the Dirty Work This is the glue that you know anyone can build something that you know anyone can build something that you know anyone can build something and make it and and show a demo but then and make it and and show a demo but then and make it and and show a demo but then to commercialize it right that's the the to commercialize it right that's the the to commercialize it right that's the the last 5% of the work that takes 90% of last 5% of the work that takes 90% of last 5% of the work that takes 90% of the effort right is yeah and and while

the effort right is yeah and and while the effort right is yeah and and while you may not be able to put your finger you may not be able to put your finger you may not be able to put your finger on the exact problem you're solving with on the exact problem you're solving with on the exact problem you're solving with that kind of thing but you know damn that kind of thing but you know damn that kind of thing but you know damn well coming down the road there's going well coming down the road there's going well coming down the road there's going to be a lot of that need you know going to be a lot of that need you know going to be a lot of that need you know going to be those issues that clients big to be those issues that clients big to be those issues that clients big clients are going to need right because clients are going to need right because clients are going to need right because they're going to have defend their logic they're going to have defend their logic they're going to have defend their logic as to why they went with this group as to why they went with this group as to why they went with this group versus this other group and is the versus this other group and is the versus this other group and is the information that you know as accurate as information that you know as accurate as information that you know as accurate as they the sales guy sold it to us they the sales guy sold it to us they the sales guy sold it to us although AWS did a good job I think in although AWS did a good job I think in although AWS did a good job I think in that Landing that choice message like that Landing that choice message like that Landing that choice message like you can use there's AWS models there's you can use there's AWS models there's you can use there's AWS models there's the Nvidia dgx stuff there's anthropic the Nvidia dgx stuff there's anthropic the Nvidia dgx stuff there's anthropic like they had everything but open AI as like they had everything but open AI as like they had everything but open AI as an option um which is like okay well if an option um which is like okay well if an option um which is like okay well if I go with AWS I you know I can you know I go with AWS I you know I can you know I go with AWS I you know I can you know kind of futz around with a few different kind of futz around with a few different kind of futz around with a few different possible ways of of solving at least the possible ways of of solving at least the possible ways of of solving at least the big AI stuff I I noticed it was like uh big AI stuff I I noticed it was like uh big AI stuff I I noticed it was like uh you know kind of conspicuously absent you know kind of conspicuously absent you know kind of conspicuously absent any kind of iot edge stuff in in the any kind of iot edge stuff in in the any kind of iot edge stuff in in the keynote which is you know it's just keynote which is you know it's just keynote which is you know it's just happens to be the the temperature of the happens to be the the temperature of the happens to be the the temperature of the of the industry right now it's like of the industry right now it's like of the industry right now it's like let's talk about big h200 30,000 let's talk about big h200 30,000 let's talk about big h200 30,000 clusters of yada yada yada and like last clusters of yada yada yada and like last clusters of yada yada yada and like last year was like oh let's talk about the year was like oh let's talk about the year was like oh let's talk about the tiny Edge and the uh you know so we've tiny Edge and the uh you know so we've tiny Edge and the uh you know so we've gone all the way from like the $5 MCU to gone all the way from like the $5 MCU to gone all the way from like the $5 MCU to the $30,000 per chip uh you know h200 or the $30,000 per chip uh you know h200 or the $30,000 per chip uh you know h200 or Grace Hopper so right here so that's Grace Hopper so right here so that's Grace Hopper so right here so that's fantastic well there's they're back to fantastic well there's they're back to fantastic well there's they're back to iot though is that why we're here okay iot though is that why we're here okay iot though is that why we're here okay um the the the scheduling and the um the the the scheduling and the um the the the scheduling and the sessions around iot and iot core are

sessions around iot and iot core are sessions around iot and iot core are pretty intense this week so hopefully my pretty intense this week so hopefully my pretty intense this week so hopefully my clients and all the other people that clients and all the other people that clients and all the other people that went there to learn more about what's went there to learn more about what's went there to learn more about what's going coming down the pipe and not just going coming down the pipe and not just going coming down the pipe and not just what's in the marketplace will be what's in the marketplace will be what's in the marketplace will be outlined for everybody so well I mean outlined for everybody so well I mean outlined for everybody so well I mean the one thing I appreciate about about the one thing I appreciate about about the one thing I appreciate about about AWS is is they started doing the same AWS is is they started doing the same AWS is is they started doing the same thing right I mean Microsoft did a thing right I mean Microsoft did a thing right I mean Microsoft did a digital twin type thing that I don't digital twin type thing that I don't digital twin type thing that I don't know where the hell it went I think it know where the hell it went I think it know where the hell it went I think it just just just vaporized but AWS did twin maker and I vaporized but AWS did twin maker and I vaporized but AWS did twin maker and I remember last laughing so hard when I remember last laughing so hard when I remember last laughing so hard when I when I saw that I mean you know if you when I saw that I mean you know if you when I saw that I mean you know if you had like maybe one room with one had like maybe one room with one had like maybe one room with one conveyor belt then it might work for you conveyor belt then it might work for you conveyor belt then it might work for you but but then they pivoted and said we're but but then they pivoted and said we're but but then they pivoted and said we're not going to do that that's not our not going to do that that's not our not going to do that that's not our thing so they go out and they build thing so they go out and they build thing so they go out and they build their ecosystem of partners that their ecosystem of partners that their ecosystem of partners that actually do this so you do have choice actually do this so you do have choice actually do this so you do have choice right you know in terms of in terms of right you know in terms of in terms of right you know in terms of in terms of those things and and I I don't know it those things and and I I don't know it those things and and I I don't know it it it I do appreciate them being able to it it I do appreciate them being able to it it I do appreciate them being able to Pivot and shift for the Behemoth that Pivot and shift for the Behemoth that Pivot and shift for the Behemoth that they are they are they are they just didn't know what they were they just didn't know what they were they just didn't know what they were doing and so when you build crap you go doing and so when you build crap you go doing and so when you build crap you go oh what we meant to do was we're going oh what we meant to do was we're going oh what we meant to do was we're going to have the community and our partners to have the community and our partners to have the community and our partners actually do this um I remember yeah actually do this um I remember yeah actually do this um I remember yeah Microsoft was super late to the party Microsoft was super late to the party Microsoft was super late to the party with digital Twins and the V1 of that with digital Twins and the V1 of that with digital Twins and the V1 of that thing was just crap it didn't have thing was just crap it didn't have thing was just crap it didn't have anything in common with you know because anything in common with you know because anything in common with you know because I was doing that at Hitachi and G was I was doing that at Hitachi and G was I was doing that at Hitachi and G was doing it and a lot of people who doing it and a lot of people who doing it and a lot of people who actually knew what they were talking actually knew what they were talking actually knew what they were talking about were doing it what Microsoft had about were doing it what Microsoft had about were doing it what Microsoft had didn't look anything like that at all uh

didn't look anything like that at all uh didn't look anything like that at all uh kind of the V2 was a little better kind of the V2 was a little better kind of the V2 was a little better um you know what I hate it's not that I um you know what I hate it's not that I um you know what I hate it's not that I hate yeah you know we have these hate yeah you know we have these hate yeah you know we have these consortiums and stuff like that so back consortiums and stuff like that so back consortiums and stuff like that so back to OMG you know they've got industrial to OMG you know they've got industrial to OMG you know they've got industrial internet Consortium and then created the internet Consortium and then created the internet Consortium and then created the digital twin digital twin digital twin Consortium and um wow Italian here so I Consortium and um wow Italian here so I Consortium and um wow Italian here so I I worked with Richard s who he just I worked with Richard s who he just I worked with Richard s who he just passed away um and so he he founded he passed away um and so he he founded he passed away um and so he he founded he ran OMG forever um but I worked with him ran OMG forever um but I worked with him ran OMG forever um but I worked with him and uh Bill Rue from GE and a bunch of and uh Bill Rue from GE and a bunch of and uh Bill Rue from GE and a bunch of folks to create the digital twin folks to create the digital twin folks to create the digital twin Consortium way back when and then trying Consortium way back when and then trying Consortium way back when and then trying to get companies to sign up and be a to get companies to sign up and be a to get companies to sign up and be a part of that thing but what I saw happen part of that thing but what I saw happen part of that thing but what I saw happen what you see happen sometimes in what you see happen sometimes in what you see happen sometimes in consortiums is some big giant player consortiums is some big giant player consortiums is some big giant player Microsoft takes Microsoft takes Microsoft takes over and basically they rammed Azure over and basically they rammed Azure over and basically they rammed Azure digital twin kind of down their throat digital twin kind of down their throat digital twin kind of down their throat of everybody else and said this is what of everybody else and said this is what of everybody else and said this is what it is and I was just like that is not it is and I was just like that is not it is and I was just like that is not the point of that con sorum at all but the point of that con sorum at all but the point of that con sorum at all but that's but that's kind of how it played that's but that's kind of how it played that's but that's kind of how it played out that's on my left yeah yeah CU I out that's on my left yeah yeah CU I out that's on my left yeah yeah CU I forgot somebody posted something or forgot somebody posted something or forgot somebody posted something or commented on something I said or commented on something I said or commented on something I said or whatever and he was talking about the I whatever and he was talking about the I whatever and he was talking about the I know sock puppet of Consortium where know sock puppet of Consortium where know sock puppet of Consortium where just we're pretending that we are you just we're pretending that we are you just we're pretending that we are you know taking viewpoints from all over the know taking viewpoints from all over the know taking viewpoints from all over the place but the reality is we're just place but the reality is we're just place but the reality is we're just going to let one big player Ram through going to let one big player Ram through going to let one big player Ram through their View and then we'll say yeah their View and then we'll say yeah their View and then we'll say yeah that's what we want uh and that's what

that's what we want uh and that's what that's what we want uh and that's what happen with the DTC it's basically just happen with the DTC it's basically just happen with the DTC it's basically just a front for Microsoft digital twins I a front for Microsoft digital twins I a front for Microsoft digital twins I yeah no I I At first I felt good about yeah no I I At first I felt good about yeah no I I At first I felt good about it and then I felt even better when we it and then I felt even better when we it and then I felt even better when we started talking about the security started talking about the security started talking about the security maturity model for digital twins but maturity model for digital twins but maturity model for digital twins but then every single part of that was then every single part of that was then every single part of that was Microsoft and I was like I'm sorry for Microsoft and I was like I'm sorry for Microsoft and I was like I'm sorry for those Reasons I'm those Reasons I'm those Reasons I'm out right yeah yeah you did your out right yeah yeah you did your out right yeah yeah you did your best um yeah impersonation politics you best um yeah impersonation politics you best um yeah impersonation politics you know yeah and I'm like I'm like yeah no know yeah and I'm like I'm like yeah no know yeah and I'm like I'm like yeah no I I could I just couldn't I just I I could I just couldn't I just I I could I just couldn't I just couldn't I just couldn't do it I mean couldn't I just couldn't do it I mean couldn't I just couldn't do it I mean most of these consortiums that are like most of these consortiums that are like most of these consortiums that are like that I'm like that I'm like that I'm like I you know I have to admit I always felt I you know I have to admit I always felt I you know I have to admit I always felt weird about object Management Group weird about object Management Group weird about object Management Group because the tagline you know was we set because the tagline you know was we set because the tagline you know was we set the the the standard I'm like who the hell are you standard I'm like who the hell are you standard I'm like who the hell are you guys yeah like we just invented this guys yeah like we just invented this guys yeah like we just invented this company that has gets a bunch of big company that has gets a bunch of big company that has gets a bunch of big companies to give us money to put logos companies to give us money to put logos companies to give us money to put logos on a website and then we have meetings on a website and then we have meetings on a website and then we have meetings once a quarter and then we just say once a quarter and then we just say once a quarter and then we just say we're setting the standard for XML or we're setting the standard for XML or we're setting the standard for XML or whatever you whatever you whatever you know that sounds like a bunch of know that sounds like a bunch of know that sounds like a bunch of that's right that's right so that's right that's right so that's right that's right so Bill but Bill in your nist uh program Bill but Bill in your nist uh program Bill but Bill in your nist uh program aren't there some big people swinging aren't there some big people swinging aren't there some big people swinging for the fences in that in those groups for the fences in that in those groups for the fences in that in those groups also that have a little bit more of self also that have a little bit more of self also that have a little bit more of self self serving approaches not so much that

self serving approaches not so much that self serving approaches not so much that it's they've been they've been very very it's they've been they've been very very it's they've been they've been very very good I mean I've been working with them good I mean I've been working with them good I mean I've been working with them since since since 2014 and and that was the fear was that 2014 and and that was the fear was that 2014 and and that was the fear was that you were going to have a lot of the big you were going to have a lot of the big you were going to have a lot of the big boys come in but uh on various groups boys come in but uh on various groups boys come in but uh on various groups there's you know AWS players I didn't there's you know AWS players I didn't there's you know AWS players I didn't see anyone really from Microsoft per se see anyone really from Microsoft per se see anyone really from Microsoft per se but AWS just kind of sits there and but AWS just kind of sits there and but AWS just kind of sits there and they're like you know we'll we'll offer they're like you know we'll we'll offer they're like you know we'll we'll offer if you ask us for something we'll offer if you ask us for something we'll offer if you ask us for something we'll offer it but we're just here to help we're it but we're just here to help we're it but we're just here to help we're just here to help you know and it's and just here to help you know and it's and just here to help you know and it's and it's real collaborative I mean primarily because collaborative I mean primarily because they don't accept donations so there's they don't accept donations so there's they don't accept donations so there's not like you can pay to play right right not like you can pay to play right right not like you can pay to play right right you get brought in and it's an you get brought in and it's an you get brought in and it's an investment of your time right because as investment of your time right because as investment of your time right because as as my company was was growing we were as my company was was growing we were as my company was was growing we were looking at it as well we're doing work looking at it as well we're doing work looking at it as well we're doing work with cities we're going to work with with cities we're going to work with with cities we're going to work with with nist I can tie these things with nist I can tie these things with nist I can tie these things together because I don't have a together because I don't have a together because I don't have a marketing budget so I'm going to use re marketing budget so I'm going to use re marketing budget so I'm going to use re real stuff to put out there and and get real stuff to put out there and and get real stuff to put out there and and get you know the things that I'm doing over you know the things that I'm doing over you know the things that I'm doing over here I'm saying this is what worked this here I'm saying this is what worked this here I'm saying this is what worked this is what didn't work right and it goes is what didn't work right and it goes is what didn't work right and it goes into the best practice it's I I asked into the best practice it's I I asked into the best practice it's I I asked Benson that exact same question Benson that exact same question Benson that exact same question yesterday because obviously you know yesterday because obviously you know yesterday because obviously you know they spent a lot of time in smart they spent a lot of time in smart they spent a lot of time in smart communities as well you know just going communities as well you know just going communities as well you know just going okay well you're doing this and you're okay well you're doing this and you're okay well you're doing this and you're giving back to our world of smart giving back to our world of smart giving back to our world of smart communities and nist and you know and communities and nist and you know and communities and nist and you know and where we're headed with all this and he

where we're headed with all this and he where we're headed with all this and he said he goes he goes yeah I am giving said he goes he goes yeah I am giving said he goes he goes yeah I am giving back you know this is part of my give back you know this is part of my give back you know this is part of my give back to the world of which we which back to the world of which we which back to the world of which we which we're making money in but committed to we're making money in but committed to we're making money in but committed to so I was pretty impressed with what he so I was pretty impressed with what he so I was pretty impressed with what he said yesterday too I think there's said yesterday too I think there's said yesterday too I think there's probably best practices on governance probably best practices on governance probably best practices on governance models for these types of organizations models for these types of organizations models for these types of organizations so think we've all been I was involved so think we've all been I was involved so think we've all been I was involved in the I was on the executive committee in the I was on the executive committee in the I was on the executive committee of the Java Community process way back of the Java Community process way back of the Java Community process way back when oh I remember that yeah I was like when oh I remember that yeah I was like when oh I remember that yeah I was like I was like the small company guy on that I was like the small company guy on that I was like the small company guy on that this is pre Microsoft and we had like this is pre Microsoft and we had like this is pre Microsoft and we had like Nokia on there and of course and all Nokia on there and of course and all Nokia on there and of course and all these folks and uh but it was a good these folks and uh but it was a good these folks and uh but it was a good governance model it was designed so that governance model it was designed so that governance model it was designed so that everyone had a even Sun it was like a everyone had a even Sun it was like a everyone had a even Sun it was like a somewhat Level Playing Field for you somewhat Level Playing Field for you somewhat Level Playing Field for you know now of course you always had the know now of course you always had the know now of course you always had the nokas and the Suns you know driving nokas and the Suns you know driving nokas and the Suns you know driving loading up with all these kind of loading up with all these kind of loading up with all these kind of proposals and stuff and you know proposals and stuff and you know proposals and stuff and you know somebody has to go to market and somebody has to go to market and somebody has to go to market and somebody has to have a marketing budget somebody has to have a marketing budget somebody has to have a marketing budget so there's always that but the so there's always that but the so there's always that but the governance models you know U Can can governance models you know U Can can governance models you know U Can can work so that everyone is a little more work so that everyone is a little more work so that everyone is a little more of a Level Playing Field at the at the of a Level Playing Field at the at the of a Level Playing Field at the at the kind of Action level I was involved in kind of Action level I was involved in kind of Action level I was involved in matter as well when I was at Microsoft matter as well when I was at Microsoft matter as well when I was at Microsoft and you know we were kind of an outsider and you know we were kind of an outsider and you know we were kind of an outsider there m Microsoft's never really Tak an there m Microsoft's never really Tak an there m Microsoft's never really Tak an official position on matter um but you official position on matter um but you official position on matter um but you know AWS was there and uh Samsung was know AWS was there and uh Samsung was know AWS was there and uh Samsung was there and everyone was you know it was there and everyone was you know it was there and everyone was you know it was nxp it was pretty chill I mean it was nxp it was pretty chill I mean it was nxp it was pretty chill I mean it was actually a pretty productive thing now actually a pretty productive thing now actually a pretty productive thing now obviously the the big dogs there are the obviously the the big dogs there are the obviously the the big dogs there are the ones that are going to you know make the ones that are going to you know make the ones that are going to you know make the kits and you know sell the stuff so

kits and you know sell the stuff so kits and you know sell the stuff so they're going to have influence um but they're going to have influence um but they're going to have influence um but it was pretty but Pete do you think that it was pretty but Pete do you think that it was pretty but Pete do you think that was based on because of Tobin's response was based on because of Tobin's response was based on because of Tobin's response you know I mean from an association you know I mean from an association you know I mean from an association standpoint and his involvement and the standpoint and his involvement and the standpoint and his involvement and the way he handled all this especially with way he handled all this especially with way he handled all this especially with the zigby alliance experience he had for the zigby alliance experience he had for the zigby alliance experience he had for matter are you talking about yeah no I matter are you talking about yeah no I matter are you talking about yeah no I mean I think I mean from the Microsoft mean I think I mean from the Microsoft mean I think I mean from the Microsoft perspective on matter we just couldn't perspective on matter we just couldn't perspective on matter we just couldn't really figure out where we you know really figure out where we you know really figure out where we you know where Microsoft was would would play in where Microsoft was would would play in where Microsoft was would would play in that space I mean what was the deliver that space I mean what was the deliver that space I mean what was the deliver product standpoint yeah what's the product standpoint yeah what's the product standpoint yeah what's the deliverable like I I could never home deliverable like I I could never home deliverable like I I could never home autom autom autom standards so I kind of sat there I'm standards so I kind of sat there I'm standards so I kind of sat there I'm like this all sounds good but I mean like this all sounds good but I mean like this all sounds good but I mean there's nothing for us much to do about there's nothing for us much to do about there's nothing for us much to do about it I did get pinged every few months it I did get pinged every few months it I did get pinged every few months from sales folk saying what are we doing from sales folk saying what are we doing from sales folk saying what are we doing about matter I'm like not about matter I'm like not about matter I'm like not much who's using tell me what matter much who's using tell me what matter much who's using tell me what matter what matter sensors do we have in our what matter sensors do we have in our what matter sensors do we have in our Marketplace well matter matter doesn't Marketplace well matter matter doesn't Marketplace well matter matter doesn't matter as far as I've matter as far as I've matter as far as I've see you know as soon as Stacy higin see you know as soon as Stacy higin see you know as soon as Stacy higin Botham realized that it didn't matter Botham realized that it didn't matter Botham realized that it didn't matter anymore it it's over she retired she anymore it it's over she retired she anymore it it's over she retired she retired you know she was like the last retired you know she was like the last retired you know she was like the last person to have any hype about matter and person to have any hype about matter and person to have any hype about matter and then she realized wow I just didn't then she realized wow I just didn't then she realized wow I just didn't matter for those reasons too many puns I matter for those reasons too many puns I matter for those reasons too many puns I think that's the issue they had they had think that's the issue they had they had think that's the issue they had they had too many puns they had too many puns too many puns they had too many puns too many puns they had too many puns that's so cool though that you brought that's so cool though that you brought that's so cool though that you brought up the Java Community process that was I up the Java Community process that was I up the Java Community process that was I was involved in that back in the s was involved in that back in the s was involved in that back in the s creating Java server creating Java server creating Java server pages and yeah pretty well-run group I

pages and yeah pretty well-run group I pages and yeah pretty well-run group I mean son did a pretty good job with that mean son did a pretty good job with that mean son did a pretty good job with that yeah and basically we drove it to look a yeah and basically we drove it to look a yeah and basically we drove it to look a lot like active server Pages like the lot like active server Pages like the lot like active server Pages like the classic active server Pages you know classic active server Pages you know classic active server Pages you know from the 990s um and then the but then from the 990s um and then the but then from the 990s um and then the but then some cold fusion people were also some cold fusion people were also some cold fusion people were also involved and they were trying to force involved and they were trying to force involved and they were trying to force these cold fusion tags to be part of these cold fusion tags to be part of these cold fusion tags to be part of java server Pages anyway for a while it java server Pages anyway for a while it java server Pages anyway for a while it looked just like ASP to be honest with looked just like ASP to be honest with looked just like ASP to be honest with you and then so it's ASP Plus Cold you and then so it's ASP Plus Cold you and then so it's ASP Plus Cold Fusion there you have it what happens Fusion there you have it what happens Fusion there you have it what happens when you have a lot of people from when you have a lot of people from when you have a lot of people from different places saying that's right different places saying that's right different places saying that's right everybody's got their agenda they got to everybody's got their agenda they got to everybody's got their agenda they got to work together right right how many work together right right how many work together right right how many people are still building websites with people are still building websites with people are still building websites with cold fusion you know the funny thing is is fusion you know the funny thing is is the world just like smart cities like the world just like smart cities like the world just like smart cities like spites buildings the built world it is spites buildings the built world it is spites buildings the built world it is the world of the old the world of the old the world of the old it just is there are very few new things it just is there are very few new things it just is there are very few new things most of the things around you have been most of the things around you have been most of the things around you have been there for 50 years or 70 years or there for 50 years or 70 years or there for 50 years or 70 years or whatever and when you think of the web whatever and when you think of the web whatever and when you think of the web or web Technologies or anything like or web Technologies or anything like or web Technologies or anything like that or gosh anything almost what you that or gosh anything almost what you that or gosh anything almost what you see mostly out there on the internet is see mostly out there on the internet is see mostly out there on the internet is old you know I most of the websites I go old you know I most of the websites I go old you know I most of the websites I go to still today if I just go to all kinds to still today if I just go to all kinds to still today if I just go to all kinds of websites most of them look kind of of websites most of them look kind of of websites most of them look kind of have that Windows 95 looking feel to have that Windows 95 looking feel to have that Windows 95 looking feel to them they aren't using any advanced them they aren't using any advanced them they aren't using any advanced technology at all they're kind of built technology at all they're kind of built technology at all they're kind of built like they were built in 1995 you know like they were built in 1995 you know like they were built in 1995 you know and they were probably still running and they were probably still running and they were probably still running cold fusion or you know Pearl or

cold fusion or you know Pearl or cold fusion or you know Pearl or something like something like something like that well there is a there is a cultural that well there is a there is a cultural that well there is a there is a cultural difference here between uh the speed of difference here between uh the speed of difference here between uh the speed of our you know Tech world right which is our you know Tech world right which is our you know Tech world right which is we're recompiling and rebuilding every we're recompiling and rebuilding every we're recompiling and rebuilding every night um and everything else in the night um and everything else in the night um and everything else in the world it doesn't work that way yeah how world it doesn't work that way yeah how world it doesn't work that way yeah how do you sort of uh you know this is where do you sort of uh you know this is where do you sort of uh you know this is where the challenges probably in Connected the challenges probably in Connected the challenges probably in Connected communities or I was talking about Metal communities or I was talking about Metal communities or I was talking about Metal Benders the other day like these Benders the other day like these Benders the other day like these automotive industry even the TCO like automotive industry even the TCO like automotive industry even the TCO like they're not they work at a different they're not they work at a different they're not they work at a different pace and so now it's like Tech is kind pace and so now it's like Tech is kind pace and so now it's like Tech is kind of washing over them like this wave and of washing over them like this wave and of washing over them like this wave and they have to figure out how to make it they have to figure out how to make it they have to figure out how to make it work in their world that works at a work in their world that works at a work in their world that works at a totally different pace and and cultural totally different pace and and cultural totally different pace and and cultural thing yeah um that's that's a kind of thing yeah um that's that's a kind of thing yeah um that's that's a kind of another one of those kind of paradoxes another one of those kind of paradoxes another one of those kind of paradoxes that we're gonna be working with so that we're gonna be working with so that we're gonna be working with so right and that metal bending world gets right and that metal bending world gets right and that metal bending world gets even slower when you're trying to bend even slower when you're trying to bend even slower when you're trying to bend stainless stainless stainless steel to build a cyber truck ah yes the steel to build a cyber truck ah yes the steel to build a cyber truck ah yes the Cyber truck that Dodges that Dodges Cyber truck that Dodges that Dodges Cyber truck that Dodges that Dodges flaming flaming flaming arrows it's it's harder to make that arrows it's it's harder to make that arrows it's it's harder to make that thing and more expensive to make it thing and more expensive to make it thing and more expensive to make it because the metal is so much harder it because the metal is so much harder it because the metal is so much harder it doesn't Bend like aluminum yeah you know doesn't Bend like aluminum yeah you know doesn't Bend like aluminum yeah you know yeah yeah I I was really I was really yeah yeah I I was really I was really yeah yeah I I was really I was really surprised at how uh much Elon was surprised at how uh much Elon was surprised at how uh much Elon was telling Joe Rogan about the telling Joe Rogan about the telling Joe Rogan about the manufacturing process I mean how hard it manufacturing process I mean how hard it manufacturing process I mean how hard it is so it is hard he's right it's hard as is so it is hard he's right it's hard as is so it is hard he's right it's hard as hell to do manufacturing and build the hell to do manufacturing and build the hell to do manufacturing and build the car scale and make it AFF make it car scale and make it AFF make it car scale and make it AFF make it affordable I mean you know and so

affordable I mean you know and so affordable I mean you know and so something like the cybertruck where they something like the cybertruck where they something like the cybertruck where they decide to use extreme materials to make decide to use extreme materials to make decide to use extreme materials to make it it inherently makes it more expensive it it inherently makes it more expensive it it inherently makes it more expensive you know it's harder to build but that's you know it's harder to build but that's you know it's harder to build but that's not a cybert tr's not a scale business I not a cybert tr's not a scale business I not a cybert tr's not a scale business I mean that's a they're gonna sell they're mean that's a they're gonna sell they're mean that's a they're gonna sell they're going to sell out the few that they make going to sell out the few that they make going to sell out the few that they make for an egregious price and yeah and for an egregious price and yeah and for an egregious price and yeah and everyone who drives one you kind of know everyone who drives one you kind of know everyone who drives one you kind of know what kind of that person's like you know what kind of that person's like you know what kind of that person's like you know like okay yeah he's the same person that like okay yeah he's the same person that like okay yeah he's the same person that bought the original yeah it's like bought the original yeah it's like bought the original yeah it's like remember the Hummer that came out remember the Hummer that came out remember the Hummer that came out everyone who drove a Hummer you're like everyone who drove a Hummer you're like everyone who drove a Hummer you're like okay I kind of know who's driving are okay I kind of know who's driving are okay I kind of know who's driving are that's that's that's right you want to be that person if you right you want to be that person if you right you want to be that person if you want to be a cybertruck person then God want to be a cybertruck person then God want to be a cybertruck person then God bless you know just whatever is there an bless you know just whatever is there an bless you know just whatever is there an accessory package for the Cyber truck to accessory package for the Cyber truck to accessory package for the Cyber truck to have your gun rack in the back like a have your gun rack in the back like a have your gun rack in the back like a normal pickup would have right I don't normal pickup would have right I don't normal pickup would have right I don't know what's the accessory for cyber know what's the accessory for cyber know what's the accessory for cyber truck who knows I don't know it's like I truck who knows I don't know it's like I truck who knows I don't know it's like I can't see my gun back there you know or can't see my gun back there you know or can't see my gun back there you know or I can't I can't put my flag back there I can't I can't put my flag back there I can't I can't put my flag back there in the back window like yeah probably in the back window like yeah probably in the back window like yeah probably I'm sure it has flag mounts for sure FL I'm sure it has flag mounts for sure FL I'm sure it has flag mounts for sure FL flag mounts and terrets absolutely absolutely oh my gosh terrets absolutely absolutely oh my gosh yeah imagine um but Rob I'm gonna Circle yeah imagine um but Rob I'm gonna Circle yeah imagine um but Rob I'm gonna Circle back to something you just said about um back to something you just said about um back to something you just said about um you know old technology and you know and you know old technology and you know and you know old technology and you know and things that we have to deal with because things that we have to deal with because things that we have to deal with because it's amazing how many clients uh we talk it's amazing how many clients uh we talk it's amazing how many clients uh we talk to that are so focused on Green Field to that are so focused on Green Field to that are so focused on Green Field and not brown field and how you know and not brown field and how you know and not brown field and how you know their their concept of okay well I'm

their their concept of okay well I'm their their concept of okay well I'm going to only sell new things to new going to only sell new things to new going to only sell new things to new people and their sales cycle gets people and their sales cycle gets people and their sales cycle gets extended and they're it just it's hard extended and they're it just it's hard extended and they're it just it's hard for them to get to that point so if for them to get to that point so if for them to get to that point so if you're I we tell them if you're not you're I we tell them if you're not you're I we tell them if you're not putting together some kind of existing putting together some kind of existing putting together some kind of existing strategy with your product offering on strategy with your product offering on strategy with your product offering on Brownfield and retrofitting stuff in the Brownfield and retrofitting stuff in the Brownfield and retrofitting stuff in the iot space you're screwed it's just not iot space you're screwed it's just not iot space you're screwed it's just not gonna happen you can't win if you can't gonna happen you can't win if you can't gonna happen you can't win if you can't do do do Brownfield well I guess 100% of the Brownfield well I guess 100% of the Brownfield well I guess 100% of the equipment that's out there today is equipment that's out there today is equipment that's out there today is Brownfield so Brownfield so Brownfield so exactly exactly tell people to rip out exactly exactly tell people to rip out exactly exactly tell people to rip out rip out their doughnut maker and put in rip out their doughnut maker and put in rip out their doughnut maker and put in the new Azure iot doughnut maker or the new Azure iot doughnut maker or the new Azure iot doughnut maker or whatever they were talking about night whatever they were talking about night whatever they were talking about night might take a while might take a while might take a while might take a while might take a while might take a while well I mean just think back to the smart well I mean just think back to the smart well I mean just think back to the smart CI it's like oh we'll wait till 2015 CI it's like oh we'll wait till 2015 CI it's like oh we'll wait till 2015 we'll have these futuristic smart cities we'll have these futuristic smart cities we'll have these futuristic smart cities but when we're there you know 95% of the but when we're there you know 95% of the but when we're there you know 95% of the buildings in those futuristic smart buildings in those futuristic smart buildings in those futuristic smart cities were probably built in cities were probably built in cities were probably built in 1920 yeah and people live in them you 1920 yeah and people live in them you 1920 yeah and people live in them you know people want to keep those buildings know people want to keep those buildings know people want to keep those buildings but you know there's obviously balance but you know there's obviously balance but you know there's obviously balance there as you're rolling out you know new there as you're rolling out you know new there as you're rolling out you know new things and but but you know retrofitting things and but but you know retrofitting things and but but you know retrofitting and snapping in the the Brownfield stuff and snapping in the the Brownfield stuff and snapping in the the Brownfield stuff into some sort of system that's can be into some sort of system that's can be into some sort of system that's can be monitored is you know super valuable so monitored is you know super valuable so monitored is you know super valuable so yeah yeah you're right especially with yeah yeah you're right especially with yeah yeah you're right especially with the products and the sensors and the the products and the sensors and the the products and the sensors and the devices that are available now that can devices that are available now that can devices that are available now that can be easily part of the retrofit strategy be easily part of the retrofit strategy be easily part of the retrofit strategy well I was talking to someone I was in well I was talking to someone I was in well I was talking to someone I was in Japan and we were talking about heavy Japan and we were talking about heavy Japan and we were talking about heavy industry and some of the robotics there industry and some of the robotics there industry and some of the robotics there and stuff and you know when you build and stuff and you know when you build and stuff and you know when you build one of those giant industrial robots one of those giant industrial robots one of those giant industrial robots like a CA or whatever you don't really

like a CA or whatever you don't really like a CA or whatever you don't really redesign that thing very often it's like redesign that thing very often it's like redesign that thing very often it's like you do it and it's like there for like you do it and it's like there for like you do it and it's like there for like many many years so what they're doing many many years so what they're doing many many years so what they're doing now is they're taking the existing board now is they're taking the existing board now is they're taking the existing board which is running um nxp whatever imx6 or which is running um nxp whatever imx6 or which is running um nxp whatever imx6 or something and then they're adding on something and then they're adding on something and then they're adding on like an Nvidia Jetson or something to it like an Nvidia Jetson or something to it like an Nvidia Jetson or something to it to give it more AI capabilities to the to give it more AI capabilities to the to give it more AI capabilities to the existing unit so they're not redesigning existing unit so they're not redesigning existing unit so they're not redesigning it from scratch they're just adding on it from scratch they're just adding on it from scratch they're just adding on another piece to the existing one so another piece to the existing one so another piece to the existing one so that's kind of interesting sort of that's kind of interesting sort of that's kind of interesting sort of Brownfield at the device level saying Brownfield at the device level saying Brownfield at the device level saying I'm going to take this equipment that I I'm going to take this equipment that I I'm going to take this equipment that I know works and I'll add this you know know works and I'll add this you know know works and I'll add this you know additional module to it to give it new additional module to it to give it new additional module to it to give it new capabilities but I won't redesign the capabilities but I won't redesign the capabilities but I won't redesign the whole thing from whole thing from whole thing from scratch maybe that's how chat GPT is for scratch maybe that's how chat GPT is for scratch maybe that's how chat GPT is for humans it's just adding on to Brownfield humans it's just adding on to Brownfield humans it's just adding on to Brownfield solution that we already have de solution that we already have de solution that we already have de called although for some people it might called although for some people it might called although for some people it might be good to just do the Green Field I be good to just do the Green Field I be good to just do the Green Field I don't know you know yeah no kidding yeah don't know you know yeah no kidding yeah don't know you know yeah no kidding yeah are you looking at the gray-haired are you looking at the gray-haired are you looking at the gray-haired people on this call is that what you're people on this call is that what you're people on this call is that what you're doing oh no no no of doing oh no no no of doing oh no no no of course guys obviously haven't discovered course guys obviously haven't discovered course guys obviously haven't discovered Just For Men have you Just For Men have you Just For Men have you no it's too late for that I have the spray can just yeah here that I have the spray can just yeah here in the can and actually it was funny I in the can and actually it was funny I in the can and actually it was funny I saw on l there's a big Trend in LinkedIn saw on l there's a big Trend in LinkedIn saw on l there's a big Trend in LinkedIn for people to create avatars of for people to create avatars of for people to create avatars of themselves these cartoon avatars yeah themselves these cartoon avatars yeah themselves these cartoon avatars yeah whatever and you know I see friends of whatever and you know I see friends of whatever and you know I see friends of mine doing it and inevitably all their mine doing it and inevitably all their mine doing it and inevitably all their avatars don't have any gray hair like am

avatars don't have any gray hair like am avatars don't have any gray hair like am how did that happen you know like how did that happen you know like how did that happen you know like seriously you gota own it you got to seriously you gota own it you got to seriously you gota own it you got to embrace it absolutely oh my God that's embrace it absolutely oh my God that's embrace it absolutely oh my God that's crazy crazy crazy stuff I still can't who needs Botox when stuff I still can't who needs Botox when stuff I still can't who needs Botox when you can create a cartoon of yourself you can create a cartoon of yourself you can create a cartoon of yourself right we're just gonna live in that right we're just gonna live in that right we're just gonna live in that world yeah there you go world yeah there you go world yeah there you go oh God you know this conversation is now oh God you know this conversation is now oh God you know this conversation is now definitely turned definitely turned definitely turned into maybe we should shut this thing into maybe we should shut this thing into maybe we should shut this thing down getting down getting down getting there absolutely is is it too early to there absolutely is is it too early to there absolutely is is it too early to talk about talk about talk about CEs you have one minute to talk about CEs you have one minute to talk about CEs you have one minute to talk about CEs um wow wow are you going we yes we CEs um wow wow are you going we yes we CEs um wow wow are you going we yes we are going you GNA have lots of meetings are going you GNA have lots of meetings are going you GNA have lots of meetings in hotel rooms uh um no I'm going to in hotel rooms uh um no I'm going to in hotel rooms uh um no I'm going to stay on the show I have three clients stay on the show I have three clients stay on the show I have three clients with boots so I'm going to be CL Flor with boots so I'm going to be CL Flor with boots so I'm going to be CL Flor this year um and not do the the sweets this year um and not do the the sweets this year um and not do the the sweets and do all that but um it's in you know and do all that but um it's in you know and do all that but um it's in you know I'm interested in seeing where the iot I'm interested in seeing where the iot I'm interested in seeing where the iot aai stuff goes this year you know the aai stuff goes this year you know the aai stuff goes this year you know the fitness people to the smart you know the fitness people to the smart you know the fitness people to the smart you know the the the cars the automotive area I'm the the cars the automotive area I'm the the cars the automotive area I'm just interested to see where they where just interested to see where they where just interested to see where they where they go with the sensor technology they go with the sensor technology they go with the sensor technology yeah Automotive big last year let see yeah Automotive big last year let see yeah Automotive big last year let see it's a huge Automotive show it's a huge it's a huge Automotive show it's a huge it's a huge Automotive show it's a huge Automotive show every year seems to be Automotive show every year seems to be Automotive show every year seems to be more I'd be interested in seeing where more I'd be interested in seeing where more I'd be interested in seeing where the kind of gen AI or the on device AI the kind of gen AI or the on device AI the kind of gen AI or the on device AI is happening I agree I mean AI Vision

is happening I agree I mean AI Vision is happening I agree I mean AI Vision yeah got it P but there's all this like yeah got it P but there's all this like yeah got it P but there's all this like oh we're gonna do you know gen on edge oh we're gonna do you know gen on edge oh we're gonna do you know gen on edge I'm like okay who's doing that exactly I'm like okay who's doing that exactly I'm like okay who's doing that exactly for what reason so if any of that shows for what reason so if any of that shows for what reason so if any of that shows up at CES I'd be interested but yeah and up at CES I'd be interested but yeah and up at CES I'd be interested but yeah and I and I and I think also the avoidance I and I and I think also the avoidance I and I and I think also the avoidance of price of price of price like like I don't know how to price this like like I don't know how to price this like like I don't know how to price this thing out if I'm adding this to my stuff thing out if I'm adding this to my stuff thing out if I'm adding this to my stuff how much do I charge for how much do I charge for how much do I charge for this I'm very interested in see out this I'm very interested in see out this I'm very interested in see out because what it we can come up with the because what it we can come up with the because what it we can come up with the greatest and coolest thing but if it greatest and coolest thing but if it greatest and coolest thing but if it doesn't sell who gives a sure but doesn't sell who gives a sure but doesn't sell who gives a sure but also you got the consumer market and the also you got the consumer market and the also you got the consumer market and the commercial market so for me I'm more commercial market so for me I'm more commercial market so for me I'm more commercial Market focused so yeah you commercial Market focused so yeah you commercial Market focused so yeah you know if there's value in it it's solving know if there's value in it it's solving know if there's value in it it's solving a real business problem you can figure a real business problem you can figure a real business problem you can figure out how much to charge for it but in the out how much to charge for it but in the out how much to charge for it but in the consumer Market you got all these other consumer Market you got all these other consumer Market you got all these other weird things going on yeah and it's it's weird things going on yeah and it's it's weird things going on yeah and it's it's going to be and another thing that um a going to be and another thing that um a going to be and another thing that um a couple of people that are going were couple of people that are going were couple of people that are going were talking about with me was if Eureka park talking about with me was if Eureka park talking about with me was if Eureka park has a lot of air related stuff then you has a lot of air related stuff then you has a lot of air related stuff then you know the hype scale is way up they will know the hype scale is way up they will know the hype scale is way up they will would you bet 90% of Eureka Park is AI would you bet 90% of Eureka Park is AI would you bet 90% of Eureka Park is AI stuff God I can't God Rob I hope not I stuff God I can't God Rob I hope not I stuff God I can't God Rob I hope not I hope you're wrong will be it will be hope you're wrong will be it will be hope you're wrong will be it will be it's like this again another year of it's like this again another year of it's like this again another year of trying to raise money and theyve got the trying to raise money and theyve got the trying to raise money and theyve got the word that the VCS need to hear AI in word that the VCS need to hear AI in word that the VCS need to hear AI in your pitch or you're dead oh yeah yeah your pitch or you're dead oh yeah yeah your pitch or you're dead oh yeah yeah uh oh we're going back to uh oh we're going back to uh oh we're going back to transformation where did all that money transformation where did all that money transformation where did all that money where did all that money go interested

where did all that money go interested where did all that money go interested in the in the vehicles and the autonomy in the in the vehicles and the autonomy in the in the vehicles and the autonomy and the and the and the infrastructure so there's a lot of talk infrastructure so there's a lot of talk infrastructure so there's a lot of talk around generative Ai and its use in the around generative Ai and its use in the around generative Ai and its use in the automotive industry automotive industry automotive industry right then it's a you know because I'm right then it's a you know because I'm right then it's a you know because I'm like all these different ways of you like all these different ways of you like all these different ways of you know Vehicles talking is one thing but know Vehicles talking is one thing but know Vehicles talking is one thing but it's the AI piece of it that's really it's the AI piece of it that's really it's the AI piece of it that's really interest uh so who's doing what in the interest uh so who's doing what in the interest uh so who's doing what in the car who's doing what on the car who's doing what on the car who's doing what on the infrastructure and how do these how do infrastructure and how do these how do infrastructure and how do these how do these things together yeah but listen these things together yeah but listen these things together yeah but listen it's one thing for us to build a three it's one thing for us to build a three it's one thing for us to build a three four five year sales model approach in four five year sales model approach in four five year sales model approach in the automotive right so it you know you the automotive right so it you know you the automotive right so it you know you put something into a car today it's it's put something into a car today it's it's put something into a car today it's it's going to be 3 four years out before it's going to be 3 four years out before it's going to be 3 four years out before it's sold and on the street yeah what is AI sold and on the street yeah what is AI sold and on the street yeah what is AI going to be like in four years I mean going to be like in four years I mean going to be like in four years I mean can you put something into a design can you put something into a design can you put something into a design today and expect it to be sellable four today and expect it to be sellable four today and expect it to be sellable four years from now I absolutely absolutely years from now I absolutely absolutely years from now I absolutely absolutely that's what OTA is for there you go ah that's what OTA is for there you go ah that's what OTA is for there you go ah yes there you go there you go all right yes there you go there you go all right yes there you go there you go all right I apologize I have to drop and do a I apologize I have to drop and do a I apologize I have to drop and do a meeting on this same meeting on this same meeting on this same computer oh my God Rob where's your computer oh my God Rob where's your computer oh my God Rob where's your three others I know where's your aipc three others I know where's your aipc three others I know where's your aipc that's what you need where's your AI that's what you need where's your AI that's what you need where's your AI phone you had an aipc this wouldn't be phone you had an aipc this wouldn't be phone you had an aipc this wouldn't be an issue I mean right so thanks an issue I mean right so thanks an issue I mean right so thanks everybody for coming to iot coffee talk everybody for coming to iot coffee talk everybody for coming to iot coffee talk and I don't know what we talked about and I don't know what we talked about and I don't know what we talked about but we talked about something but we talked about something but we talked about something interesting I can't wait to see the

interesting I can't wait to see the interesting I can't wait to see the headlines connected communities headlines connected communities headlines connected communities connected put cyber truck in there it's connected put cyber truck in there it's connected put cyber truck in there it's good search engine optimization exactly good search engine optimization exactly good search engine optimization exactly because we're all about link bait for because we're all about link bait for because we're all about link bait for when we talk about that and cyber truck when we talk about that and cyber truck when we talk about that and cyber truck we'll do that thanks for joining us we'll do that thanks for joining us we'll do that thanks for joining us right bye everybody coffe talk and then right bye everybody coffe talk and then right bye everybody coffe talk and then wherever you get your podcast and we are wherever you get your podcast and we are wherever you get your podcast and we are out we'll see you next week out we'll see you next week out we'll see you next week [Music]