IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 261 - The Human Battery (The AI Job of the Future)

[Applause] [Applause] [Music] Oh my god. Oh my god. You know, that was Van Halen's House of You know, that was Van Halen's House of You know, that was Van Halen's House of Pain again, not Pain again, not Pain again, not um House of Pain's uh jump around. I was um House of Pain's uh jump around. I was um House of Pain's uh jump around. I was about to say House of Pain. Yeah. about to say House of Pain. Yeah. about to say House of Pain. Yeah. Hopefully nobody got that confused. Hopefully nobody got that confused. Hopefully nobody got that confused. Jump. Jump. But that was that was Jump. Jump. But that was that was Jump. Jump. But that was that was painful, you know. Um, painful, you know. Um, painful, you know. Um, every episode I have this really sober every episode I have this really sober every episode I have this really sober reminder that I'm getting old. I'm reminder that I'm getting old. I'm reminder that I'm getting old. I'm losing my facilities here. Uh, oh, it's losing my facilities here. Uh, oh, it's losing my facilities here. Uh, oh, it's not good to lose your facilities. not good to lose your facilities. not good to lose your facilities. Probably not good to admit that on a You Probably not good to admit that on a You Probably not good to admit that on a You just told everybody all Yeah. Five just told everybody all Yeah. Five just told everybody all Yeah. Five zillion people. Yeah. It's terrible. zillion people. Yeah. It's terrible. zillion people. Yeah. It's terrible. How's it going, guys? How's it going, guys? How's it going, guys? Good. Good. Doing well. How you doing, Good. Good. Doing well. How you doing, Good. Good. Doing well. How you doing, Debbie?

I'm well. Thank you for asking. Yeah. I'm well. Thank you for asking. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So, hey everyone. Welcome Awesome. Yeah. So, hey everyone. Welcome Awesome. Yeah. So, hey everyone. Welcome to IoT Coffee Talk. Um, where we talk to IoT Coffee Talk. Um, where we talk to IoT Coffee Talk. Um, where we talk about pretty much everything now. about pretty much everything now. about pretty much everything now. Lately, it has been a lot less about Lately, it has been a lot less about Lately, it has been a lot less about IoT, but we try to bring it, you know, IoT, but we try to bring it, you know, IoT, but we try to bring it, you know, full circle, right? And IoT at least, full circle, right? And IoT at least, full circle, right? And IoT at least, you know. Yeah. At least try to say IoT you know. Yeah. At least try to say IoT you know. Yeah. At least try to say IoT once so that you get your your money's once so that you get your your money's once so that you get your your money's worth. Exactly. Which is probably the worth. Exactly. Which is probably the worth. Exactly. Which is probably the reason why we don't mention IoT all that reason why we don't mention IoT all that reason why we don't mention IoT all that much these days. Right. So Ouch. Yeah. much these days. Right. So Ouch. Yeah. much these days. Right. So Ouch. Yeah. Of course, our good friend Absol, you Of course, our good friend Absol, you Of course, our good friend Absol, you know, in the Netherlands with his IoT know, in the Netherlands with his IoT know, in the Netherlands with his IoT book and he's like, we need to try we book and he's like, we need to try we book and he's like, we need to try we need to just talk about IoT more. You need to just talk about IoT more. You need to just talk about IoT more. You guys, you guys keep saying we need to guys, you guys keep saying we need to guys, you guys keep saying we need to stop saying IoT and just talk about stop saying IoT and just talk about stop saying IoT and just talk about solutions and outcomes and blah blah solutions and outcomes and blah blah solutions and outcomes and blah blah blah and everything. And blah and everything. And blah and everything. And um it's probably cuz I I and probably um it's probably cuz I I and probably um it's probably cuz I I and probably others said, "Dude, it's just a others said, "Dude, it's just a others said, "Dude, it's just a collection of capabilities. You need to collection of capabilities. You need to collection of capabilities. You need to talk about the problem you're solving."

talk about the problem you're solving." talk about the problem you're solving." Um and maybe he's heard that too much Um and maybe he's heard that too much Um and maybe he's heard that too much and he wrote his book and I haven't read and he wrote his book and I haven't read and he wrote his book and I haven't read it yet. I've still got it sitting it yet. I've still got it sitting it yet. I've still got it sitting around. Um so he's saying that we're around. Um so he's saying that we're around. Um so he's saying that we're full of crap. Is that is that it? Is full of crap. Is that is that it? Is full of crap. Is that is that it? Is that the one? I don't know. I mean, you that the one? I don't know. I mean, you that the one? I don't know. I mean, you know, he he thinks we we think it's know, he he thinks we we think it's know, he he thinks we we think it's overhyped and he think it's not hyped overhyped and he think it's not hyped overhyped and he think it's not hyped enough or that a lot of people just enough or that a lot of people just enough or that a lot of people just don't know about it or customers just don't know about it or customers just don't know about it or customers just don't know that all this stuff exists. don't know that all this stuff exists. don't know that all this stuff exists. And I'm like, there are people, I don't And I'm like, there are people, I don't And I'm like, there are people, I don't want to say it's him, that are there's a want to say it's him, that are there's a want to say it's him, that are there's a whole lot of people we know that think whole lot of people we know that think whole lot of people we know that think they're in the mainstream of IoT and they're in the mainstream of IoT and they're in the mainstream of IoT and they jumped in right when it's they jumped in right when it's they jumped in right when it's happening, everything, and they don't happening, everything, and they don't happening, everything, and they don't realize they were actually all very late realize they were actually all very late realize they were actually all very late to the party and the party was already to the party and the party was already to the party and the party was already over when they joined, but they didn't over when they joined, but they didn't over when they joined, but they didn't know that and they think they're at the know that and they think they're at the know that and they think they're at the beginning or something or in the middle beginning or something or in the middle beginning or something or in the middle of the IoT hype deal and they are of the IoT hype deal and they are of the IoT hype deal and they are unaware that that happened a long time unaware that that happened a long time unaware that that happened a long time ago before they even showed up. And so ago before they even showed up. And so ago before they even showed up. And so they're probably scratching their heads, they're probably scratching their heads, they're probably scratching their heads, you know, like, "Oh, what's going on?" you know, like, "Oh, what's going on?" you know, like, "Oh, what's going on?" You know, Yeah. What's this trough of You know, Yeah. What's this trough of You know, Yeah. What's this trough of disillusionment? You know, that kind of disillusionment? You know, that kind of disillusionment? You know, that kind of thing. Oh, thank God David's here. Yeah.

thing. Oh, thank God David's here. Yeah. thing. Oh, thank God David's here. Yeah. What's up, man? Yeah. So, now that he's What's up, man? Yeah. So, now that he's What's up, man? Yeah. So, now that he's on, remember to take us seriously at on, remember to take us seriously at on, remember to take us seriously at your own dire risk. We highly recommend your own dire risk. We highly recommend your own dire risk. We highly recommend that you don't do it. But if you do and that you don't do it. But if you do and that you don't do it. But if you do and you end up investing in some weird you end up investing in some weird you end up investing in some weird crypto that promises crypto that promises crypto that promises to disrupt and democratize and save the to disrupt and democratize and save the to disrupt and democratize and save the world, well um that's entirely your world, well um that's entirely your world, well um that's entirely your fault. And we will also wonder where the fault. And we will also wonder where the fault. And we will also wonder where the hell did you get that idea listening to hell did you get that idea listening to hell did you get that idea listening to this show? If you did, you probably got this show? If you did, you probably got this show? If you did, you probably got it from listening to some advertisement. it from listening to some advertisement. it from listening to some advertisement. now generative AI generated now generative AI generated now generative AI generated advertisement. So um yeah I just want to advertisement. So um yeah I just want to advertisement. So um yeah I just want to put that disclaimer out there and you put that disclaimer out there and you put that disclaimer out there and you know speaking about IoT we will talk know speaking about IoT we will talk know speaking about IoT we will talk about offsol we will talk about IoT about offsol we will talk about IoT about offsol we will talk about IoT more if you buy IoT coffee talk t-shirt more if you buy IoT coffee talk t-shirt more if you buy IoT coffee talk t-shirt and we will be uh providing all the and we will be uh providing all the and we will be uh providing all the proceeds to charity um Elevate our kids proceeds to charity um Elevate our kids proceeds to charity um Elevate our kids at www.elevatorids.org at www.elevatorids.org at www.elevatorids.org work where we're trying to bridge the work where we're trying to bridge the work where we're trying to bridge the digital divide for kids K through 12 and digital divide for kids K through 12 and digital divide for kids K through 12 and underserved and unserved communities and underserved and unserved communities and underserved and unserved communities and so yeah it's it's okay to okay yeah so yeah it's it's okay to okay yeah so yeah it's it's okay to okay yeah bridge school divide and um promote some bridge school divide and um promote some bridge school divide and um promote some equity you know it's feel good stuff you equity you know it's feel good stuff you equity you know it's feel good stuff you know feel good know feel good know feel good real good and important actually let's real good and important actually let's real good and important actually let's replace feel good with real good real replace feel good with real good real replace feel good with real good real good let's make it real don't do this

good let's make it real don't do this good let's make it real don't do this just to boot virtual signal and make just to boot virtual signal and make just to boot virtual signal and make yourself feel like you're a good person. yourself feel like you're a good person. yourself feel like you're a good person. Make it real. Change make that change. Make it real. Change make that change. Make it real. Change make that change. No. Hey, and if not just so that we No. Hey, and if not just so that we No. Hey, and if not just so that we mention IoT or actually talk about IoT, mention IoT or actually talk about IoT, mention IoT or actually talk about IoT, but I guess Osal is going to force us to but I guess Osal is going to force us to but I guess Osal is going to force us to talk about IoT, right? You talked about talk about IoT, right? You talked about talk about IoT, right? You talked about crypto in the news this week. Coinbase crypto in the news this week. Coinbase crypto in the news this week. Coinbase got hacked. They got hacked, but then got hacked. They got hacked, but then got hacked. They got hacked, but then they also are part of the S&P. I love it they also are part of the S&P. I love it they also are part of the S&P. I love it when I turn on my Coinbase deal and it's when I turn on my Coinbase deal and it's when I turn on my Coinbase deal and it's like derivatives trading is now 24/7. like derivatives trading is now 24/7. like derivatives trading is now 24/7. I'm like, and that what happened with I'm like, and that what happened with I'm like, and that what happened with the whole market crash in 2008? Uh, the whole market crash in 2008? Uh, the whole market crash in 2008? Uh, anyway, no problem. Okay, you're already anyway, no problem. Okay, you're already anyway, no problem. Okay, you're already depressing me and we aren't we aren't depressing me and we aren't we aren't depressing me and we aren't we aren't even No, no, we're doing good. We're even No, no, we're doing good. We're even No, no, we're doing good. We're doing good. This is for entertainment doing good. This is for entertainment doing good. This is for entertainment purposes only. How about how about that purposes only. How about how about that purposes only. How about how about that Nvidia stock roaring back over three Nvidia stock roaring back over three Nvidia stock roaring back over three trillion market cap and then all the other players who cap and then all the other players who help build data centers. Uh that's help build data centers. Uh that's help build data centers. Uh that's exciting stuff for sure. So, you know, exciting stuff for sure. So, you know, exciting stuff for sure. So, you know, you just never know out there with that you just never know out there with that you just never know out there with that market, right? But this is for market, right? But this is for market, right? But this is for entertainment purposes only. We're just entertainment purposes only. We're just entertainment purposes only. We're just kid we're just joshing you. Yeah. About kid we're just joshing you. Yeah. About kid we're just joshing you. Yeah. About this kind of stuff. What is going on, this kind of stuff. What is going on, this kind of stuff. What is going on, Mr. Vasquez, Mr. Vasquez, Mr. Vasquez, Mr. Intel.

Um, you know, trying to uh hold the Um, you know, trying to uh hold the sarcasm and the cynicism back uh at the sarcasm and the cynicism back uh at the sarcasm and the cynicism back uh at the end of the week. But what's going on? end of the week. But what's going on? end of the week. But what's going on? Uh, bunch of, you know, bunch of things. Uh, bunch of, you know, bunch of things. Uh, bunch of, you know, bunch of things. Um, actually, but you know, I don't Um, actually, but you know, I don't Um, actually, but you know, I don't know. I figure I would jump in uh today, know. I figure I would jump in uh today, know. I figure I would jump in uh today, see what you guys were talking about so see what you guys were talking about so see what you guys were talking about so I can just distract you and mess you up I can just distract you and mess you up I can just distract you and mess you up with relevant things about the internet with relevant things about the internet with relevant things about the internet of things as I do. Uh yeah. Yeah. Well, of things as I do. Uh yeah. Yeah. Well, of things as I do. Uh yeah. Yeah. Well, IoT is a good thing to talk about. I IoT is a good thing to talk about. I IoT is a good thing to talk about. I mean, maybe we talk about that, kick it mean, maybe we talk about that, kick it mean, maybe we talk about that, kick it off with that off with that off with that and that might be a welcome a welcome and that might be a welcome a welcome and that might be a welcome a welcome topic for our listeners. So, are we topic for our listeners. So, are we topic for our listeners. So, are we going to are we going to do some product going to are we going to do some product going to are we going to do some product placement? Who's got Absol's book? I I placement? Who's got Absol's book? I I placement? Who's got Absol's book? I I don't have it yet, but I um Let me see don't have it yet, but I um Let me see don't have it yet, but I um Let me see if it's in my backpack. It might be. It if it's in my backpack. It might be. It if it's in my backpack. It might be. It might be. It might be. You're serious. might be. It might be. You're serious. might be. It might be. You're serious. Um Never Leave Home Without It, right? Um Never Leave Home Without It, right? Um Never Leave Home Without It, right? No, there there there's something he um No, there there there's something he um No, there there there's something he um and he he's written this couple of times and he he's written this couple of times and he he's written this couple of times uh in the past. There's the book. We're uh in the past. There's the book. We're uh in the past. There's the book. We're talking about the book. Is it What is talking about the book. Is it What is talking about the book. Is it What is it? Why is my screen blurry? I don't it? Why is my screen blurry? I don't it? Why is my screen blurry? I don't know. The hype is no one The hype no one know. The hype is no one The hype no one know. The hype is no one The hype no one knows about. And I second book. Yeah, knows about. And I second book. Yeah, knows about. And I second book. Yeah, but see that's here at Osalt, this is a but see that's here at Osalt, this is a but see that's here at Osalt, this is a problem and we say this on the show all problem and we say this on the show all problem and we say this on the show all the time. A hype is hype. The technology the time. A hype is hype. The technology the time. A hype is hype. The technology and your awareness of it, practical and your awareness of it, practical and your awareness of it, practical awareness of it is entirely a different awareness of it is entirely a different awareness of it is entirely a different thing. And to your point, I was going to thing. And to your point, I was going to thing. And to your point, I was going to say, Rob, and this is one of the things say, Rob, and this is one of the things say, Rob, and this is one of the things that I noticed working at um Gartner, is that I noticed working at um Gartner, is that I noticed working at um Gartner, is it's not always the case that, you know,

it's not always the case that, you know, it's not always the case that, you know, research firms tune into a technology research firms tune into a technology research firms tune into a technology um you know, at its beginning. They um you know, at its beginning. They um you know, at its beginning. They actually misplace the technology on actually misplace the technology on actually misplace the technology on their hype cycle. So, you're absolutely their hype cycle. So, you're absolutely their hype cycle. So, you're absolutely right, Rob, in that um they just right, Rob, in that um they just right, Rob, in that um they just basically go off of who what's buzzing basically go off of who what's buzzing basically go off of who what's buzzing now rather than really looking at what now rather than really looking at what now rather than really looking at what is the state of the technology and is is the state of the technology and is is the state of the technology and is diffusion especially it's outside of the diffusion especially it's outside of the diffusion especially it's outside of the IT realm right so um when I was at IT realm right so um when I was at IT realm right so um when I was at Gartner IoT was like a new thing um and Gartner IoT was like a new thing um and Gartner IoT was like a new thing um and so there you know the research for a lot so there you know the research for a lot so there you know the research for a lot of the research firms was absolutely new of the research firms was absolutely new of the research firms was absolutely new you know what I'm saying and that's why you know what I'm saying and that's why you know what I'm saying and that's why I think you saw a lot of these highly I think you saw a lot of these highly I think you saw a lot of these highly exaggerated forecasts these ridiculous exaggerated forecasts these ridiculous exaggerated forecasts these ridiculous forecasts these ridiculous forecasts these ridiculous forecasts these ridiculous You were exaggerated. Oh my god. I You were exaggerated. Oh my god. I You were exaggerated. Oh my god. I remember that it was so new that Gartner remember that it was so new that Gartner remember that it was so new that Gartner had to acquire Matt Patton's firm. Yeah. had to acquire Matt Patton's firm. Yeah. had to acquire Matt Patton's firm. Yeah. You know, because Yeah. Because Gartner You know, because Yeah. Because Gartner You know, because Yeah. Because Gartner just didn't have any built-in expertise just didn't have any built-in expertise just didn't have any built-in expertise in it and so they had to bring that in it and so they had to bring that in it and so they had to bring that whole firm into Gartner, you know. Yeah.

whole firm into Gartner, you know. Yeah. whole firm into Gartner, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And but he he he his post the Yeah. And but he he he his post the Yeah. And but he he he his post the other day was you know something along other day was you know something along other day was you know something along the lines that one of the problems with the lines that one of the problems with the lines that one of the problems with IoT is marketing and I just think IoT is marketing and I just think IoT is marketing and I just think because he's selling us a book that's because he's selling us a book that's because he's selling us a book that's his hook. So I don't know I think we his hook. So I don't know I think we his hook. So I don't know I think we should have him on the show at some should have him on the show at some should have him on the show at some point to talk bearded guy to bearded point to talk bearded guy to bearded point to talk bearded guy to bearded guy. Yeah. guy. Yeah. guy. Yeah. the premise that those of us in the IoT the premise that those of us in the IoT the premise that those of us in the IoT business business business um continue to miss things because we're um continue to miss things because we're um continue to miss things because we're calling the IoT IoT instead of just calling the IoT IoT instead of just calling the IoT IoT instead of just sticking to hey the customer has a sticking to hey the customer has a sticking to hey the customer has a business problem. Let's talk about the business problem. Let's talk about the business problem. Let's talk about the business problem and just completely not business problem and just completely not business problem and just completely not mention the technology. mention the technology. mention the technology. uh the older I get and the more people uh the older I get and the more people uh the older I get and the more people that I deal with, you know, I think that I deal with, you know, I think that I deal with, you know, I think there might be something to it, but I there might be something to it, but I there might be something to it, but I think it's it's almost generational or think it's it's almost generational or think it's it's almost generational or or maybe it's cultural that if you are or maybe it's cultural that if you are or maybe it's cultural that if you are say in the consulting business and I'm say in the consulting business and I'm say in the consulting business and I'm trying to sell you hours, so I'm going trying to sell you hours, so I'm going trying to sell you hours, so I'm going to focus on your business problem cuz I to focus on your business problem cuz I to focus on your business problem cuz I want to be there as long as possible want to be there as long as possible want to be there as long as possible ideally all things being equal. And you ideally all things being equal. And you ideally all things being equal. And you know, I we've said this in the show know, I we've said this in the show know, I we've said this in the show before, the the customers, the buyers before, the the customers, the buyers before, the the customers, the buyers with an enterprise problem or a small with an enterprise problem or a small with an enterprise problem or a small business problem, they're smart people business problem, they're smart people business problem, they're smart people and and they can easily identify and and they can easily identify and and they can easily identify sometimes the problems that they have.

sometimes the problems that they have. sometimes the problems that they have. And most of them realize that there is And most of them realize that there is And most of them realize that there is some tech out there that will solve the some tech out there that will solve the some tech out there that will solve the problem. They might not know what it's problem. They might not know what it's problem. They might not know what it's called or the brand or where to get it, called or the brand or where to get it, called or the brand or where to get it, but they know that their problems are but they know that their problems are but they know that their problems are not unique. And I think there's this I'm not unique. And I think there's this I'm not unique. And I think there's this I'm going to call it because we like the going to call it because we like the going to call it because we like the culture wars here in America. I'm going culture wars here in America. I'm going culture wars here in America. I'm going to call it this cultural thing where to call it this cultural thing where to call it this cultural thing where there's a school of thought that one I there's a school of thought that one I there's a school of thought that one I am going to solution by speaking to the am going to solution by speaking to the am going to solution by speaking to the business problem and ROI and business problem and ROI and business problem and ROI and efficiencies using plain language, efficiencies using plain language, efficiencies using plain language, right? Uh here's an outcome, here's a right? Uh here's an outcome, here's a right? Uh here's an outcome, here's a desired outcome, here are the desired outcome, here are the desired outcome, here are the deliverables, etc. And there's this deliverables, etc. And there's this deliverables, etc. And there's this other school of just tech jargon. Oh, other school of just tech jargon. Oh, other school of just tech jargon. Oh, you know, with IoT and AI and Aentic and you know, with IoT and AI and Aentic and you know, with IoT and AI and Aentic and and MCP, because that's the new one of and MCP, because that's the new one of and MCP, because that's the new one of the week. And with Coinbase trading on the week. And with Coinbase trading on the week. And with Coinbase trading on the on the uh stock market, we're going the on the uh stock market, we're going the on the uh stock market, we're going to get all where it's like, who are you to get all where it's like, who are you to get all where it's like, who are you talking to? And it goes back to us. talking to? And it goes back to us. talking to? And it goes back to us. You're talking to me on the foot because You're talking to me on the foot because You're talking to me on the foot because we're just not speaking to the business.

we're just not speaking to the business. we're just not speaking to the business. We're speaking to tech. What are we We're speaking to tech. What are we We're speaking to tech. What are we selling? If we're selling solutions, selling? If we're selling solutions, selling? If we're selling solutions, sell to the business and the tech is sell to the business and the tech is sell to the business and the tech is part of the solution, you'll sell that, part of the solution, you'll sell that, part of the solution, you'll sell that, too. But speak English or your native too. But speak English or your native too. But speak English or your native language, you know, Catalan. We have language, you know, Catalan. We have language, you know, Catalan. We have Mark here. Catalan Espanol. There's Mark here. Catalan Espanol. There's Mark here. Catalan Espanol. There's There's more than one over there. There's more than one over there. There's more than one over there. Anyway, that's that's where my head's at Anyway, that's that's where my head's at Anyway, that's that's where my head's at today. I think that's true. I think today. I think that's true. I think today. I think that's true. I think that's true. Um, I know we've been that's true. Um, I know we've been that's true. Um, I know we've been talking about IoT for so long and still, talking about IoT for so long and still, talking about IoT for so long and still, you know, for us who know what it is and you know, for us who know what it is and you know, for us who know what it is and know where it fits in into the play of know where it fits in into the play of know where it fits in into the play of everything and, you know, technology, we everything and, you know, technology, we everything and, you know, technology, we get it. But, I mean, you could still get it. But, I mean, you could still get it. But, I mean, you could still talk to any business o owner and if you talk to any business o owner and if you talk to any business o owner and if you say IoT, their eyes will glaze over, say IoT, their eyes will glaze over, say IoT, their eyes will glaze over, right? Yeah. M I think it's still an right? Yeah. M I think it's still an right? Yeah. M I think it's still an issue cuz people don't it was a thing issue cuz people don't it was a thing issue cuz people don't it was a thing right where people tried to make it like right where people tried to make it like right where people tried to make it like you know this is like the the the second you know this is like the the the second you know this is like the the the second coming of Christ or something like that coming of Christ or something like that coming of Christ or something like that where it really is something that's very where it really is something that's very where it really is something that's very very deeply embedded in people's very deeply embedded in people's very deeply embedded in people's operations right now and they may not operations right now and they may not operations right now and they may not know or understand the risk or know the know or understand the risk or know the know or understand the risk or know the best way to leverage it.

best way to leverage it. best way to leverage it. So in my view So in my view So in my view maybe you know I I start I work or loner maybe you know I I start I work or loner maybe you know I I start I work or loner knows I'm um I work I'm a chair of a knows I'm um I work I'm a chair of a knows I'm um I work I'm a chair of a group uh industry connections group with group uh industry connections group with group uh industry connections group with I believe and we actually it we actually I believe and we actually it we actually I believe and we actually it we actually call it connected systems. So IoT is call it connected systems. So IoT is call it connected systems. So IoT is part of that but I feel like people part of that but I feel like people part of that but I feel like people understand that understand that understand that more maybe not a lot more but a little more maybe not a lot more but a little more maybe not a lot more but a little bit more. So I think you know maybe we bit more. So I think you know maybe we bit more. So I think you know maybe we need a publicity campaign people need a publicity campaign people need a publicity campaign people understand you know IT is the thing that understand you know IT is the thing that understand you know IT is the thing that you're you've been using for many years you're you've been using for many years you're you've been using for many years probably um and maybe you're not doing probably um and maybe you're not doing probably um and maybe you're not doing it the right way or maybe you're not it the right way or maybe you're not it the right way or maybe you're not implementing it uh the best way that it implementing it uh the best way that it implementing it uh the best way that it can be but you know it's not something can be but you know it's not something can be but you know it's not something that's coming it's something that's that's coming it's something that's that's coming it's something that's already deeply embedded probably within already deeply embedded probably within already deeply embedded probably within your organization but you don't really your organization but you don't really your organization but you don't really understand it very well but but to but understand it very well but but to but understand it very well but but to but to stick to um I mean we really need to stick to um I mean we really need to stick to um I mean we really need apps to to come here. But it I just apps to to come here. But it I just apps to to come here. But it I just think it it does not have IoT does not think it it does not have IoT does not think it it does not have IoT does not have a marketing problem though. Uh it have a marketing problem though. Uh it have a marketing problem though. Uh it might not be a unified message. So you might not be a unified message. So you might not be a unified message. So you know to use source right so people call know to use source right so people call know to use source right so people call it different things right it could be it different things right it could be it different things right it could be internet of things it could be connected internet of things it could be connected internet of things it could be connected things intelligent assets uh you know things intelligent assets uh you know things intelligent assets uh you know like our friends friends at Clearblade like our friends friends at Clearblade like our friends friends at Clearblade call it. there's all these names, but call it. there's all these names, but call it. there's all these names, but you know, at the end of the day, it's you know, at the end of the day, it's you know, at the end of the day, it's the same thing. So, it's and and we the same thing. So, it's and and we the same thing. So, it's and and we continue to be so

continue to be so continue to be so um what's the word? Um not not lack of um what's the word? Um not not lack of um what's the word? Um not not lack of interpret um fragmented. There's there's interpret um fragmented. There's there's interpret um fragmented. There's there's so many outfits doing so many different so many outfits doing so many different so many outfits doing so many different things that we cannot seriously believe things that we cannot seriously believe things that we cannot seriously believe that there will be a unified what is IoT that there will be a unified what is IoT that there will be a unified what is IoT message when you have so many shops message when you have so many shops message when you have so many shops doing so many different things. I mean, doing so many different things. I mean, doing so many different things. I mean, what is if we go down to um let's just what is if we go down to um let's just what is if we go down to um let's just pick on a link labs or or Sierra where pick on a link labs or or Sierra where pick on a link labs or or Sierra where at one end at one end at one end of and we ask him what IoT is and then of and we ask him what IoT is and then of and we ask him what IoT is and then we swing all the way back around and we swing all the way back around and we swing all the way back around and just talk to one of the uh you know just talk to one of the uh you know just talk to one of the uh you know front-end developers, the answer is not front-end developers, the answer is not front-end developers, the answer is not going to be the same. And I think we going to be the same. And I think we going to be the same. And I think we need to be okay with that. At this point need to be okay with that. At this point need to be okay with that. At this point in you know what in almost the middle of in you know what in almost the middle of in you know what in almost the middle of 2025 I think we get it. Internet of 2025 I think we get it. Internet of 2025 I think we get it. Internet of things means things are connected. things means things are connected. things means things are connected. Great. I think the concept is globally Great. I think the concept is globally Great. I think the concept is globally understood. But those of us in the understood. But those of us in the understood. But those of us in the business really want people to get it business really want people to get it business really want people to get it and talk about it and we that's what we and talk about it and we that's what we and talk about it and we that's what we dude people still don't even get cloud dude people still don't even get cloud dude people still don't even get cloud computing man. I computing man. I computing man. I mean don't even this kid mainframe class mean don't even this kid mainframe class mean don't even this kid mainframe class man don't even go there you know the man don't even go there you know the man don't even go there you know the problem is number one these things problem is number one these things problem is number one these things change but number two a lot of them are change but number two a lot of them are change but number two a lot of them are concepts AI is a field of science it's concepts AI is a field of science it's concepts AI is a field of science it's been and then what we've seen is you been and then what we've seen is you been and then what we've seen is you know a whole series of appropriations to

know a whole series of appropriations to know a whole series of appropriations to support hyped marketing that's there is support hyped marketing that's there is support hyped marketing that's there is a marketing problem in that it creates a marketing problem in that it creates a marketing problem in that it creates hype misconceptions hype misconceptions hype misconceptions and hyperbole. This is the this is what and hyperbole. This is the this is what and hyperbole. This is the this is what really the problem is. And I I think really the problem is. And I I think really the problem is. And I I think exactly what I mean, dude, that when exactly what I mean, dude, that when exactly what I mean, dude, that when that episode a couple of weeks ago, Rob, that episode a couple of weeks ago, Rob, that episode a couple of weeks ago, Rob, when you were showing what you you guys when you were showing what you you guys when you were showing what you you guys did back in the '9s, just connecting did back in the '9s, just connecting did back in the '9s, just connecting systems and what you're saying, uh, systems and what you're saying, uh, systems and what you're saying, uh, Debbie, connected systems that basically Debbie, connected systems that basically Debbie, connected systems that basically it's distributed sensing and you're it's distributed sensing and you're it's distributed sensing and you're aggregating data from those systems. aggregating data from those systems. aggregating data from those systems. That is basically what did we have back That is basically what did we have back That is basically what did we have back in the '90s? Mark will tell you because in the '90s? Mark will tell you because in the '90s? Mark will tell you because he's traveling around the globe right he's traveling around the globe right he's traveling around the globe right now saying, "What's your business case?" now saying, "What's your business case?" now saying, "What's your business case?" Yeah, exactly. That's my only question. Yeah, exactly. That's my only question. Yeah, exactly. That's my only question. You have dirty laundry before we invest You have dirty laundry before we invest You have dirty laundry before we invest any more money into this damn thing. No, any more money into this damn thing. No, any more money into this damn thing. No, this is the this is the question you this is the this is the question you this is the this is the question you need to ask the LinkedIn trolls, right?

need to ask the LinkedIn trolls, right? need to ask the LinkedIn trolls, right? When they try to troll your comments on When they try to troll your comments on When they try to troll your comments on LinkedIn, then ask what's your [ __ ] LinkedIn, then ask what's your [ __ ] LinkedIn, then ask what's your [ __ ] business case and don't reply me with business case and don't reply me with business case and don't reply me with more technology. So, the answer is no. more technology. So, the answer is no. more technology. So, the answer is no. Yeah, because I use MQTT and blah blah. Yeah, because I use MQTT and blah blah. Yeah, because I use MQTT and blah blah. No, no, no, no. But what's a [ __ ] No, no, no, no. But what's a [ __ ] No, no, no, no. But what's a [ __ ] business case? business case? business case? But yeah, let me disagree now that I see But yeah, let me disagree now that I see But yeah, let me disagree now that I see David since a year ago here. No, no, David since a year ago here. No, no, David since a year ago here. No, no, because this this book actually opened because this this book actually opened because this this book actually opened me a lot of debates about IoT. Should I me a lot of debates about IoT. Should I me a lot of debates about IoT. Should I use more the word IoT? No, I stopped use more the word IoT? No, I stopped use more the word IoT? No, I stopped using it since Leonard completely drunk using it since Leonard completely drunk using it since Leonard completely drunk uh show up on stage on on the IoT stars uh show up on stage on on the IoT stars uh show up on stage on on the IoT stars two years ago on mobile congress saying two years ago on mobile congress saying two years ago on mobile congress saying that IoT is dead. Um I I I needed to that IoT is dead. Um I I I needed to that IoT is dead. Um I I I needed to follow follow follow that but that but that but no but no no no just going so actually no but no no no just going so actually no but no no no just going so actually it open great but on the other hand I it open great but on the other hand I it open great but on the other hand I don't I don't buy this um I think Absal don't I don't buy this um I think Absal don't I don't buy this um I think Absal as well mentioned that in the book and I as well mentioned that in the book and I as well mentioned that in the book and I don't buy it that we need like a don't buy it that we need like a don't buy it that we need like a um a killer application or I don't think um a killer application or I don't think um a killer application or I don't think that will be so IOT it's too many things that will be so IOT it's too many things that will be so IOT it's too many things as as we mentioned before no is from as as we mentioned before no is from as as we mentioned before no is from cellular connectivity to uh low power cellular connectivity to uh low power cellular connectivity to uh low power weight area network devices to a lot of weight area network devices to a lot of weight area network devices to a lot of wearables or whatever. So it's so many wearables or whatever. So it's so many wearables or whatever. So it's so many different things that it's really hard different things that it's really hard different things that it's really hard to mention to to say that IOD just no to mention to to say that IOD just no to mention to to say that IOD just no all of them are I so we need I I feel all of them are I so we need I I feel all of them are I so we need I I feel that we need more sub you know what you that we need more sub you know what you that we need more sub you know what you need to provide is not a sorry Debbie

need to provide is not a sorry Debbie need to provide is not a sorry Debbie just really quick before I forget just really quick before I forget just really quick before I forget because you know my memory is getting because you know my memory is getting because you know my memory is getting really short and I almost forgot what I really short and I almost forgot what I really short and I almost forgot what I was going to say I just forgot what I was going to say I just forgot what I was going to say I just forgot what I was going to say. was going to say. was going to say. I literally forgot what I was go I was just going to say I'm so I was on I was just going to say I'm so I was on the uh US Department of Commerce IoT the uh US Department of Commerce IoT the uh US Department of Commerce IoT advisory board two years and I think we advisory board two years and I think we advisory board two years and I think we argued about the definition of IoT for argued about the definition of IoT for argued about the definition of IoT for about a month at least like the 12 of us about a month at least like the 12 of us about a month at least like the 12 of us or whatever but I think almost like AI or whatever but I think almost like AI or whatever but I think almost like AI the idea and any particular technology the idea and any particular technology the idea and any particular technology we have like a quote unquote killer app. we have like a quote unquote killer app. we have like a quote unquote killer app. I think that's the wrong way to think I think that's the wrong way to think I think that's the wrong way to think about it. Once we start looking into the about it. Once we start looking into the about it. Once we start looking into the different sectors, I mean, it definitely different sectors, I mean, it definitely different sectors, I mean, it definitely is horizontal, right? And if you're is horizontal, right? And if you're is horizontal, right? And if you're doing it right, it's going to enable you doing it right, it's going to enable you doing it right, it's going to enable you to do something that maybe you couldn't to do something that maybe you couldn't to do something that maybe you couldn't do before or do something better or do before or do something better or do before or do something better or faster or maybe cheaper depending on how faster or maybe cheaper depending on how faster or maybe cheaper depending on how you implement it. But it's it's not you implement it. But it's it's not you implement it. But it's it's not going to be what I call like a marquee.

going to be what I call like a marquee. going to be what I call like a marquee. Yeah. Uh application. It's not the Yeah. Uh application. It's not the Yeah. Uh application. It's not the front. It's not going to be in the front. It's not going to be in the front. It's not going to be in the front. it's going to be in the back front. it's going to be in the back front. it's going to be in the back helping you do something. And I think helping you do something. And I think helping you do something. And I think that's almost parallel to the problem that's almost parallel to the problem that's almost parallel to the problem we're going to have with AI or what we we're going to have with AI or what we we're going to have with AI or what we have with AI now. People want it to be have with AI now. People want it to be have with AI now. People want it to be front and center where I think it can front and center where I think it can front and center where I think it can really if people implement it right, really if people implement it right, really if people implement it right, it's probably going to be playing, you it's probably going to be playing, you it's probably going to be playing, you know, a good role in the background. know, a good role in the background. know, a good role in the background. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I two things that Debbie said. As you I two things that Debbie said. As you I two things that Debbie said. As you guys know, I known so I love I love guys know, I known so I love I love guys know, I known so I love I love precise language. When Debbie said precise language. When Debbie said precise language. When Debbie said killer app, right? Uh, so for you young killer app, right? Uh, so for you young killer app, right? Uh, so for you young kids, we used to call it the silver kids, we used to call it the silver kids, we used to call it the silver bullet. Yeah. bullet. Yeah. bullet. Yeah. Before I forget, David, damn it. Before I forget, David, damn it. Before I forget, David, damn it. There we are, Leonard. I'll come back to There we are, Leonard. I'll come back to There we are, Leonard. I'll come back to the killer app for IoT for enabling the killer app for IoT for enabling the killer app for IoT for enabling technologies is not about the killer technologies is not about the killer technologies is not about the killer app. It's about the app. It's about the app. It's about the killer capability. what is that killer capability. what is that killer capability. what is that capability you're you're in you're capability you're you're in you're capability you're you're in you're you're creating or enabling that fits you're creating or enabling that fits you're creating or enabling that fits into an application that takes it to the into an application that takes it to the into an application that takes it to the next level. um that is what's more next level. um that is what's more next level. um that is what's more important and that capability from a you important and that capability from a you important and that capability from a you know go to market perspective or you know go to market perspective or you know go to market perspective or you know when you look at it in terms of it know when you look at it in terms of it know when you look at it in terms of it market market market potential what's its applicability you potential what's its applicability you potential what's its applicability you know and so where you really shoot your know and so where you really shoot your know and so where you really shoot your uh yourself in the foot is if you uh yourself in the foot is if you uh yourself in the foot is if you overshoot where you think your market is overshoot where you think your market is overshoot where you think your market is and and you have a misconception of the and and you have a misconception of the and and you have a misconception of the identity of what it is that you are as

identity of what it is that you are as identity of what it is that you are as you know as a you know a a technology you know as a you know a a technology you know as a you know a a technology company uh are company uh are company uh are building if you you know and we see this building if you you know and we see this building if you you know and we see this all the time. This is one of the all the time. This is one of the all the time. This is one of the conversations I had with uh our friends conversations I had with uh our friends conversations I had with uh our friends over at um over at um over at um um Oh jeez. Huawei, you can do it. You um Oh jeez. Huawei, you can do it. You um Oh jeez. Huawei, you can do it. You can do it. Pull it out. Come on. You can can do it. Pull it out. Come on. You can can do it. Pull it out. Come on. You can do it. do it. do it. one of our friends, okay, was um that uh one of our friends, okay, was um that uh one of our friends, okay, was um that uh identity is such a big problem in the identity is such a big problem in the identity is such a big problem in the IoT community. Uh because everyone IoT community. Uh because everyone IoT community. Uh because everyone thinks that the end market is their thinks that the end market is their thinks that the end market is their customer when that's not even the case, customer when that's not even the case, customer when that's not even the case, right? They're selling into somebody right? They're selling into somebody right? They're selling into somebody else and then it's usually an SI or else and then it's usually an SI or else and then it's usually an SI or somebody who's delivering the solution. somebody who's delivering the solution. somebody who's delivering the solution. And what do we say like almost four And what do we say like almost four And what do we say like almost four years ago? Know who the freaking hell years ago? Know who the freaking hell years ago? Know who the freaking hell your customer is in the solution in the your customer is in the solution in the your customer is in the solution in the context of the solution stack. If you context of the solution stack. If you context of the solution stack. If you don't do that and you're going to be don't do that and you're going to be don't do that and you're going to be lost and your company will not have the lost and your company will not have the lost and your company will not have the right identity. It won't know how to right identity. It won't know how to right identity. It won't know how to position itself in the market. And we position itself in the market. And we position itself in the market. And we see it all the I see it with some of the see it all the I see it with some of the see it all the I see it with some of the clients I work with. It's like, holy clients I work with. It's like, holy clients I work with. It's like, holy crap, you guys do this and then you crap, you guys do this and then you crap, you guys do this and then you think somehow you can talk about this up think somehow you can talk about this up think somehow you can talk about this up here and then you start to talk about here and then you start to talk about here and then you start to talk about monetization of XYZ esoteric monetization of XYZ esoteric monetization of XYZ esoteric technology and you absolutely get technology and you absolutely get technology and you absolutely get nowhere. I mean, just look at the telco

nowhere. I mean, just look at the telco nowhere. I mean, just look at the telco industry, man. That is their problem. industry, man. That is their problem. industry, man. That is their problem. Shots fired. Shots fired. No, seriously. Shots fired. Shots fired. No, seriously. Shots fired. Shots fired. No, seriously. They cannot bridge this gap. And then They cannot bridge this gap. And then They cannot bridge this gap. And then you have all these analysts in the you have all these analysts in the you have all these analysts in the middle who have never worked on anything middle who have never worked on anything middle who have never worked on anything else that can't see the forest from the else that can't see the forest from the else that can't see the forest from the trees. They just sit there. It's funny. trees. They just sit there. It's funny. trees. They just sit there. It's funny. I mean, how many of how dude how many I mean, how many of how dude how many I mean, how many of how dude how many telco webinars do you get on where telco webinars do you get on where telco webinars do you get on where you're like listening to this stuff and you're like listening to this stuff and you're like listening to this stuff and going, "What the [ __ ] are they talking? going, "What the [ __ ] are they talking? going, "What the [ __ ] are they talking? They're talking about the same [ __ ] from They're talking about the same [ __ ] from They're talking about the same [ __ ] from years ago." Bringing back ago, you know, years ago." Bringing back ago, you know, years ago." Bringing back ago, you know, it's like unbelievable. a David Vasquez it's like unbelievable. a David Vasquez it's like unbelievable. a David Vasquez old question of ask better questions. old question of ask better questions. old question of ask better questions. Yes, I'm I'm gonna go back to Debbiey's Yes, I'm I'm gonna go back to Debbiey's Yes, I'm I'm gonna go back to Debbiey's killer app. Stuff is apparently really killer app. Stuff is apparently really killer app. Stuff is apparently really hard. Look, the what is the you know app hard. Look, the what is the you know app hard. Look, the what is the you know app for short is short for application, for short is short for application, for short is short for application, right? Yes, IoT has an application right? Yes, IoT has an application right? Yes, IoT has an application layer, but it's not the whole thing. And layer, but it's not the whole thing. And layer, but it's not the whole thing. And at some point, you know what the killer at some point, you know what the killer at some point, you know what the killer app was?

app was? app was? Dashboard. No, no. Laugh what you want. Dashboard. No, no. Laugh what you want. Dashboard. No, no. Laugh what you want. We were going nuts over dashboard and We were going nuts over dashboard and We were going nuts over dashboard and people like Rob are going like, "Uh, people like Rob are going like, "Uh, people like Rob are going like, "Uh, hold on. You do have you do have to hold on. You do have you do have to hold on. You do have you do have to visualize this stuff somewhere. Why are visualize this stuff somewhere. Why are visualize this stuff somewhere. Why are you going nuts about a dashboard?" Like, you going nuts about a dashboard?" Like, you going nuts about a dashboard?" Like, are you going to have an IoT solution are you going to have an IoT solution are you going to have an IoT solution without a dashboard? But that's where without a dashboard? But that's where without a dashboard? But that's where the killer app got conflated into the the killer app got conflated into the the killer app got conflated into the solution bit of IoT. This is how we got solution bit of IoT. This is how we got solution bit of IoT. This is how we got into trouble to Leonard's point. Oh, I into trouble to Leonard's point. Oh, I into trouble to Leonard's point. Oh, I was able to connect to this machine and was able to connect to this machine and was able to connect to this machine and deliver this result. Therefore, I can deliver this result. Therefore, I can deliver this result. Therefore, I can connect to any machine and deliver even connect to any machine and deliver even connect to any machine and deliver even better results cuz we were not asking better results cuz we were not asking better results cuz we were not asking the right specific questions. We the right specific questions. We the right specific questions. We conflate so much many things. And you conflate so much many things. And you conflate so much many things. And you know the problem also is all this know the problem also is all this know the problem also is all this technology moves so freaking fast. Just technology moves so freaking fast. Just technology moves so freaking fast. Just look at look at look at AI. AI another problem, right? It's AI. AI another problem, right? It's AI. AI another problem, right? It's insane. And then you know from the very insane. And then you know from the very insane. And then you know from the very beginning everyone when they were beginning everyone when they were beginning everyone when they were talking about oh look at the AI talking about oh look at the AI talking about oh look at the AI opportunity AI demand is through the opportunity AI demand is through the opportunity AI demand is through the roof. You're talking about freaking GPUs roof. You're talking about freaking GPUs roof. You're talking about freaking GPUs and then maybe you know a and then maybe you know a and then maybe you know a server that's not AI it's a [ __ ] server that's not AI it's a [ __ ] server that's not AI it's a [ __ ] server and it's you're moving into server and it's you're moving into server and it's you're moving into supercomputing AI is a science and you supercomputing AI is a science and you supercomputing AI is a science and you know one a few years ago I said look at know one a few years ago I said look at know one a few years ago I said look at best it's the best it's the best it's the application. So you have all these application. So you have all these application. So you have all these underlying you know things in this big underlying you know things in this big underlying you know things in this big umbrella or this domain of research

umbrella or this domain of research umbrella or this domain of research called AI and they all contribute to an called AI and they all contribute to an called AI and they all contribute to an application at the end of the day application at the end of the day application at the end of the day whether it's computer vision I mean whether it's computer vision I mean whether it's computer vision I mean that's an application right um or you that's an application right um or you that's an application right um or you know um uh whatever wide v variety of know um uh whatever wide v variety of know um uh whatever wide v variety of analytical things that you can do analytical things that you can do analytical things that you can do um machine learning all these things um machine learning all these things um machine learning all these things they culminate into an they culminate into an they culminate into an application large language models you application large language models you application large language models you know they're an know they're an know they're an application right but then the way that application right but then the way that application right but then the way that they represent it is that they say well they represent it is that they say well they represent it is that they say well you know it's this part of deep learning you know it's this part of deep learning you know it's this part of deep learning it's like actually no it applies deep it's like actually no it applies deep it's like actually no it applies deep learning and the LM itself is an learning and the LM itself is an learning and the LM itself is an application right it's taking the application right it's taking the application right it's taking the science and technologies of transformers science and technologies of transformers science and technologies of transformers and all these other things that are and all these other things that are and all these other things that are underneath it and then it expresses underneath it and then it expresses underneath it and then it expresses itself into to an application that is a itself into to an application that is a itself into to an application that is a large language model and then above that large language model and then above that large language model and then above that you know a chatbot right but you know a chatbot right but you know a chatbot right but fundamentally the core core capability fundamentally the core core capability fundamentally the core core capability is that large language model that now is that large language model that now is that large language model that now you're having applications and you know you're having applications and you know you're having applications and you know extensions of that happening how does extensions of that happening how does extensions of that happening how does anyone and you know people haven't anyone and you know people haven't anyone and you know people haven't figured this stuff out you look at how figured this stuff out you look at how figured this stuff out you look at how people talk about agentic AI it's a people talk about agentic AI it's a people talk about agentic AI it's a freaking joke it's it's like a it's a freaking joke it's it's like a it's a freaking joke it's it's like a it's a [ __ ] show yeah but but Leonard let me [ __ ] show yeah but but Leonard let me [ __ ] show yeah but but Leonard let me interrupt you Because what David meant interrupt you Because what David meant interrupt you Because what David meant and I think as says in the book is that and I think as says in the book is that and I think as says in the book is that people um gives value to their people um gives value to their people um gives value to their application putting the AI words in the

application putting the AI words in the application putting the AI words in the name of the technology or the name of the technology or the name of the technology or the application that's people don't feel application that's people don't feel application that's people don't feel that they are giving these superpowers that they are giving these superpowers that they are giving these superpowers to applications or products that putting to applications or products that putting to applications or products that putting IoT letters on on the on it on the name IoT letters on on the on it on the name IoT letters on on the on it on the name okay this is what um it's not talking okay this is what um it's not talking okay this is what um it's not talking about uh if if the technology is about uh if if the technology is about uh if if the technology is properly deployed or not it's like the properly deployed or not it's like the properly deployed or not it's like the superpowers that putting these two or superpowers that putting these two or superpowers that putting these two or three letters are are perceived as as as three letters are are perceived as as as three letters are are perceived as as as good or not. Well, and someone's paying good or not. Well, and someone's paying good or not. Well, and someone's paying for, you know, uh on for, you know, uh on for, you know, uh on um on, you know, any platform to buy a um on, you know, any platform to buy a um on, you know, any platform to buy a domain, let's just say GoDaddy, you domain, let's just say GoDaddy, you domain, let's just say GoDaddy, you know, today you can go in and try to know, today you can go in and try to know, today you can go in and try to register register register tapas.com and it's like a dollar for the tapas.com and it's like a dollar for the tapas.com and it's like a dollar for the first three years, but first three years, but first three years, but tapas.ai, it's like a,000 bucks. And tapas.ai, it's like a,000 bucks. And tapas.ai, it's like a,000 bucks. And we're talking about tapas, delicious we're talking about tapas, delicious we're talking about tapas, delicious kanyas, nice short, cold beers. kanyas, nice short, cold beers. kanyas, nice short, cold beers. Everybody should visit Spain at some Everybody should visit Spain at some Everybody should visit Spain at some point. Uh, but to Mark's point is is point. Uh, but to Mark's point is is point. Uh, but to Mark's point is is you're you're adding a word that's you're you're adding a word that's you're you're adding a word that's actually not integrated into the thing actually not integrated into the thing actually not integrated into the thing you're talking about and all of a sudden you're talking about and all of a sudden you're talking about and all of a sudden the perceived value is the perceived value is the perceived value is higher like tax.

higher like tax. higher like tax. Sorry. No, it's value created by Sorry. No, it's value created by Sorry. No, it's value created by misconception, right? The, you know, misconception, right? The, you know, misconception, right? The, you know, Yeah. I mean, it's um people have a a a Yeah. I mean, it's um people have a a a Yeah. I mean, it's um people have a a a weird perception of what an um I weird perception of what an um I weird perception of what an um I wouldn't even call it understanding cuz wouldn't even call it understanding cuz wouldn't even call it understanding cuz most people don't understand it. They most people don't understand it. They most people don't understand it. They have a weird notion of what AI is. It's have a weird notion of what AI is. It's have a weird notion of what AI is. It's shaped by a lot of hype and shaped by a lot of hype and shaped by a lot of hype and nonsense and it creates interest and nonsense and it creates interest and nonsense and it creates interest and curiosity, right? And curiosity, right? And curiosity, right? And so I don't know that that's how it all so I don't know that that's how it all so I don't know that that's how it all works, right? And then that's a that's works, right? And then that's a that's works, right? And then that's a that's even fuel hype narratives, right? So and even fuel hype narratives, right? So and even fuel hype narratives, right? So and everyone chases that stuff and then everyone chases that stuff and then everyone chases that stuff and then that's the funny that's the funny that's the funny thing. And at some point there's a thing. And at some point there's a thing. And at some point there's a bubble. It bursts and then and then bubble. It bursts and then and then bubble. It bursts and then and then everyone's disappointed and nobody wants everyone's disappointed and nobody wants everyone's disappointed and nobody wants to talk about AI anymore or IoT and then to talk about AI anymore or IoT and then to talk about AI anymore or IoT and then also writes a book and says we don't also writes a book and says we don't also writes a book and says we don't need we're not talking about this stuff need we're not talking about this stuff need we're not talking about this stuff enough.

enough. enough. There you go. There you go. There you go. No, but uh this this week I was uh No, but uh this this week I was uh No, but uh this this week I was uh moderating um a discussion table on the moderating um a discussion table on the moderating um a discussion table on the IoT solution world congress and and it IoT solution world congress and and it IoT solution world congress and and it was about AI and IOT and actually one of was about AI and IOT and actually one of was about AI and IOT and actually one of the speakers was saying that what so the speakers was saying that what so the speakers was saying that what so what they see in the market when they what they see in the market when they what they see in the market when they are introducing AI into the IoT their are introducing AI into the IoT their are introducing AI into the IoT their IoT products uh is that the perception IoT products uh is that the perception IoT products uh is that the perception of companies wants to have no their data of companies wants to have no their data of companies wants to have no their data private. But then in the other hand when private. But then in the other hand when private. But then in the other hand when you suggest like the proposal not to run you suggest like the proposal not to run you suggest like the proposal not to run it on their data centers on premise it on their data centers on premise it on their data centers on premise whatever they don't want to pay that whatever they don't want to pay that whatever they don't want to pay that price. So again I think we will get into price. So again I think we will get into price. So again I think we will get into the same rabbit hole of okay what's the the same rabbit hole of okay what's the the same rabbit hole of okay what's the business model now what's the value uh business model now what's the value uh business model now what's the value uh that know that you get putting LLM in that know that you get putting LLM in that know that you get putting LLM in your system can you afford no can does your system can you afford no can does your system can you afford no can does your business model support uh to the your business model support uh to the your business model support uh to the the ability to add uh private uh the ability to add uh private uh the ability to add uh private uh generative AIS in your system or not generative AIS in your system or not generative AIS in your system or not that's the value that it brings no that's the value that it brings no that's the value that it brings no generates any any value or not so that's generates any any value or not so that's generates any any value or not so that's I think we will get into the same rabbit I think we will get into the same rabbit I think we will get into the same rabbit hole at some point when companies will hole at some point when companies will hole at some point when companies will see that it's not $20 to a month to a see that it's not $20 to a month to a see that it's not $20 to a month to a day. But there there you're you're day. But there there you're you're day. But there there you're you're having a business discussion. You know, having a business discussion. You know, having a business discussion. You know, you can you can do this and expect that you can you can do this and expect that you can you can do this and expect that and is this much does it make business and is this much does it make business and is this much does it make business sense? Yes, let's execute. No. Okay. And sense? Yes, let's execute. No. Okay. And sense? Yes, let's execute. No. Okay. And and move on. Uh I mean I miss the days

and move on. Uh I mean I miss the days and move on. Uh I mean I miss the days uh where when we were in in the context uh where when we were in in the context uh where when we were in in the context of IoT and we were talking about of IoT and we were talking about of IoT and we were talking about analytics it was like hey descriptive analytics it was like hey descriptive analytics it was like hey descriptive analytics or or or predictive analytics analytics or or or predictive analytics analytics or or or predictive analytics and again very specific this is this is and again very specific this is this is and again very specific this is this is what they do uh before we got what they do uh before we got what they do uh before we got into advanced analytics and which into advanced analytics and which into advanced analytics and which decision tree do you prefer and and now decision tree do you prefer and and now decision tree do you prefer and and now we're all the way to just you know AI we're all the way to just you know AI we're all the way to just you know AI which is you know which is you know which is you know selling uh we're selling picks and axes selling uh we're selling picks and axes selling uh we're selling picks and axes here GPUs all day and how much of it is here GPUs all day and how much of it is here GPUs all day and how much of it is being used uh there there's um I thought being used uh there there's um I thought being used uh there there's um I thought it was last week um someone please it was last week um someone please it was last week um someone please correct me but I I read somewhere that correct me but I I read somewhere that correct me but I I read somewhere that there's like less than 13% of enterprise there's like less than 13% of enterprise there's like less than 13% of enterprise value value value um being generated out of like actual AI um being generated out of like actual AI um being generated out of like actual AI like how how can we be how can this like how how can we be how can this like how how can we be how can this market be so crazy on the wall street market be so crazy on the wall street market be so crazy on the wall street side and only reflecting a 13% side and only reflecting a 13% side and only reflecting a 13% enterprise value when we've been talking enterprise value when we've been talking enterprise value when we've been talking about this AI stuff for years now about this AI stuff for years now about this AI stuff for years now because they're behind the ball. They're because they're behind the ball. They're because they're behind the ball. They're about two years behind the ball. I mean, about two years behind the ball. I mean, about two years behind the ball. I mean, just look at what happened in Saudi just look at what happened in Saudi just look at what happened in Saudi Arabia. You know, everyone's like, "Oh Arabia. You know, everyone's like, "Oh Arabia. You know, everyone's like, "Oh my god, this great demand." It's like, my god, this great demand." It's like, my god, this great demand." It's like, well, demand for what? For Yeah, these well, demand for what? For Yeah, these well, demand for what? For Yeah, these guys are investing. Investment isn't guys are investing. Investment isn't guys are investing. Investment isn't return. You're investing. You need the return. You're investing. You need the return. You're investing. You need the R. Where's the R? what are you going to R. Where's the R? what are you going to R. Where's the R? what are you going to and um I just made a couple of posts um and um I just made a couple of posts um and um I just made a couple of posts um about that topic and um you know that's about that topic and um you know that's about that topic and um you know that's the thing that there you know this whole

the thing that there you know this whole the thing that there you know this whole notion of having an AI startup and and notion of having an AI startup and and notion of having an AI startup and and now doing what they call a neocloud now doing what they call a neocloud now doing what they call a neocloud uh those decisions were made um like two uh those decisions were made um like two uh those decisions were made um like two years ago probably when the hype just years ago probably when the hype just years ago probably when the hype just started and so think about how much started and so think about how much started and so think about how much things have changed and then how things things have changed and then how things things have changed and then how things have trended even though Yes, investment have trended even though Yes, investment have trended even though Yes, investment in infrastructure keeps going up. You're in infrastructure keeps going up. You're in infrastructure keeps going up. You're seeing a repulsion by especially by seeing a repulsion by especially by seeing a repulsion by especially by enterprises of all this stuff and but enterprises of all this stuff and but enterprises of all this stuff and but you are seeing fast adoption by cyber you are seeing fast adoption by cyber you are seeing fast adoption by cyber criminals. I mean, I don't know if criminals. I mean, I don't know if criminals. I mean, I don't know if you've noticed your when you get spam you've noticed your when you get spam you've noticed your when you get spam mail now in your your email box or your mail now in your your email box or your mail now in your your email box or your chat, um, it number one, it's chat, um, it number one, it's chat, um, it number one, it's conversational, you know, it's it's a conversational, you know, it's it's a conversational, you know, it's it's a seems like a conscious stream and it's seems like a conscious stream and it's seems like a conscious stream and it's it looks faking it looks faking it looks faking authentic. This is all in just like 3 authentic. This is all in just like 3 authentic. This is all in just like 3 months. You can see the change and you months. You can see the change and you months. You can see the change and you can also see what banks are doing, man. can also see what banks are doing, man. can also see what banks are doing, man. They are applying every single security They are applying every single security They are applying every single security protocol and pushing off liability to protocol and pushing off liability to protocol and pushing off liability to customers as much as they can because customers as much as they can because customers as much as they can because this stuff is getting real. Really bad.

this stuff is getting real. Really bad. this stuff is getting real. Really bad. It just got real. Do you ever believe It just got real. Do you ever believe It just got real. Do you ever believe that we'll be sitting here one day that we'll be sitting here one day that we'll be sitting here one day missing the Nigerian prince email? Yeah, missing the Nigerian prince email? Yeah, missing the Nigerian prince email? Yeah, it was so easy to identify. You know, it was so easy to identify. You know, it was so easy to identify. You know, the good old days of of spam and cyber. the good old days of of spam and cyber. the good old days of of spam and cyber. I missed that print so much. Yeah. You I missed that print so much. Yeah. You I missed that print so much. Yeah. You know, and I gave the guy my bank account know, and I gave the guy my bank account know, and I gave the guy my bank account and made the deposit and I'm still and made the deposit and I'm still and made the deposit and I'm still waiting for my money. Maybe AI is going waiting for my money. Maybe AI is going waiting for my money. Maybe AI is going to fix this for me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. to fix this for me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. to fix this for me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You know, that whole business case thing You know, that whole business case thing You know, that whole business case thing and what we should have called this. I and what we should have called this. I and what we should have called this. I remember a long time you like when I remember a long time you like when I remember a long time you like when I talked about the thing we did in the talked about the thing we did in the talked about the thing we did in the early 90s with the vending machines that early 90s with the vending machines that early 90s with the vending machines that we had a business case. We didn't know we had a business case. We didn't know we had a business case. We didn't know about the internet of things. We never about the internet of things. We never about the internet of things. We never heard of M toM. We just said what what heard of M toM. We just said what what heard of M toM. We just said what what if I had to create a new coin a term if I had to create a new coin a term if I had to create a new coin a term instead of the internet of things I instead of the internet of things I instead of the internet of things I would have said like the internet of would have said like the internet of would have said like the internet of inspection. All we're doing is just inspection. All we're doing is just inspection. All we're doing is just letting remote things inspect the state letting remote things inspect the state letting remote things inspect the state of a vending machines inventory. of a vending machines inventory. of a vending machines inventory. Internet of inventory could have been Internet of inventory could have been Internet of inventory could have been another thing instead of a guy driving another thing instead of a guy driving another thing instead of a guy driving there. And when I think as a simple there. And when I think as a simple there. And when I think as a simple caveman of so many IoT use cases that caveman of so many IoT use cases that caveman of so many IoT use cases that are not sexy, but they actually have are not sexy, but they actually have are not sexy, but they actually have value, it's just, oh, I froze. Yeah, you value, it's just, oh, I froze. Yeah, you value, it's just, oh, I froze. Yeah, you did. I froze. Buffered. It's did. I froze. Buffered. It's did. I froze. Buffered. It's because buffered. Yeah, my laptop. My because buffered. Yeah, my laptop. My because buffered. Yeah, my laptop. My Windows is downloading updates in the Windows is downloading updates in the Windows is downloading updates in the background and I don't like that. Um, background and I don't like that. Um, background and I don't like that. Um, but yeah, it's inspection. And it's just but yeah, it's inspection. And it's just but yeah, it's inspection. And it's just I'm uh instead of driving somewhere to

I'm uh instead of driving somewhere to I'm uh instead of driving somewhere to see what's going on with this thing, I'm see what's going on with this thing, I'm see what's going on with this thing, I'm just having sensors tell me the magic of just having sensors tell me the magic of just having sensors tell me the magic of wireless magic of dumb sensor. And when wireless magic of dumb sensor. And when wireless magic of dumb sensor. And when someone says, "Well, I don't know. That someone says, "Well, I don't know. That someone says, "Well, I don't know. That sounds really expensive for that." I was sounds really expensive for that." I was sounds really expensive for that." I was like, "How expensive is that pickup like, "How expensive is that pickup like, "How expensive is that pickup truck? How expensive is the gasoline truck? How expensive is the gasoline truck? How expensive is the gasoline you're putting in it? How expensive is you're putting in it? How expensive is you're putting in it? How expensive is that employee that you're driving out to that employee that you're driving out to that employee that you're driving out to check on this thing?" Oh, so you helped check on this thing?" Oh, so you helped check on this thing?" Oh, so you helped to kill jobs in the '90s. I I knew I to kill jobs in the '90s. I I knew I to kill jobs in the '90s. I I knew I knew Mark was going to say and I had an knew Mark was going to say and I had an knew Mark was going to say and I had an answer already. Absolutely not, Mark. We answer already. Absolutely not, Mark. We answer already. Absolutely not, Mark. We are actually and and uh and we get into are actually and and uh and we get into are actually and and uh and we get into the whole jobs uh automating and and you the whole jobs uh automating and and you the whole jobs uh automating and and you know AI taking jobs and all this stuff. know AI taking jobs and all this stuff. know AI taking jobs and all this stuff. But in this particular case, two things But in this particular case, two things But in this particular case, two things did happen. One, established companies did happen. One, established companies did happen. One, established companies that had a big staff and lots of truck that had a big staff and lots of truck that had a big staff and lots of truck rolls to go and check the machines, they rolls to go and check the machines, they rolls to go and check the machines, they they did get more they did get more they did get more efficient. And now did some of them efficient. And now did some of them efficient. And now did some of them maybe stop hiring because now they can maybe stop hiring because now they can maybe stop hiring because now they can use technology probably that happened.

use technology probably that happened. use technology probably that happened. But you know what also happened that But you know what also happened that But you know what also happened that smaller companies that couldn't take a smaller companies that couldn't take a smaller companies that couldn't take a job like that without having 10 15 20 job like that without having 10 15 20 job like that without having 10 15 20 employees now they could do it with employees now they could do it with employees now they could do it with three guys or gals three guys or gals three guys or gals right this level of automation and and right this level of automation and and right this level of automation and and remote uh inspection as Rob called it remote uh inspection as Rob called it remote uh inspection as Rob called it which is is what it is was a huge which is is what it is was a huge which is is what it is was a huge enabler and and back to conflating we enabler and and back to conflating we enabler and and back to conflating we cannot conflate the job elimination of cannot conflate the job elimination of cannot conflate the job elimination of industrialization to the job elimination industrialization to the job elimination industrialization to the job elimination of some automation. Those those of us of some automation. Those those of us of some automation. Those those of us that are there talking to the end that are there talking to the end that are there talking to the end customer realize that the jobs being customer realize that the jobs being customer realize that the jobs being eliminated are jobs that were a human eliminated are jobs that were a human eliminated are jobs that were a human was never going to get anyway because was never going to get anyway because was never going to get anyway because they're designing automated systems to they're designing automated systems to they're designing automated systems to do. fact two that things like IoT and do. fact two that things like IoT and do. fact two that things like IoT and and some automation actually end up and some automation actually end up and some automation actually end up keeping people employed cuz they save keeping people employed cuz they save keeping people employed cuz they save time and three that and this you know time and three that and this you know time and three that and this you know makes me think so robotics there's bunch makes me think so robotics there's bunch makes me think so robotics there's bunch of jobs that uh were automated from the of jobs that uh were automated from the of jobs that uh were automated from the beginning that ended up needing more beginning that ended up needing more beginning that ended up needing more people to fix the machines that didn't people to fix the machines that didn't people to fix the machines that didn't build a human job in the first place.

build a human job in the first place. build a human job in the first place. So, this is this is a net positive if So, this is this is a net positive if So, this is this is a net positive if you're talking to end customers. But if you're talking to end customers. But if you're talking to end customers. But if you're just doing a a keyboard jockey, you're just doing a a keyboard jockey, you're just doing a a keyboard jockey, you you have no idea. Go on and write you you have no idea. Go on and write you you have no idea. Go on and write your AI spam and send me another your AI spam and send me another your AI spam and send me another Nigerian prince email, please. Nigerian prince email, please. Nigerian prince email, please. Yeah. Serving addressing the unserved Yeah. Serving addressing the unserved Yeah. Serving addressing the unserved and underserved. The unmet need. and underserved. The unmet need. and underserved. The unmet need. Thinking about it. Yeah, that it's a Thinking about it. Yeah, that it's a Thinking about it. Yeah, that it's a it's a great point, right? These are all it's a great point, right? These are all it's a great point, right? These are all the things you have to do when you're the things you have to do when you're the things you have to do when you're pitching a venture capitalist. Yeah. You pitching a venture capitalist. Yeah. You pitching a venture capitalist. Yeah. You know, what is the unmet need? What is know, what is the unmet need? What is know, what is the unmet need? What is the burning problem? What is the problem the burning problem? What is the problem the burning problem? What is the problem you're going to solve? What's the job to you're going to solve? What's the job to you're going to solve? What's the job to be done? Yeah. Yeah. And related with be done? Yeah. Yeah. And related with be done? Yeah. Yeah. And related with what in in relation with what David what in in relation with what David what in in relation with what David said, I remember reading a read of the said, I remember reading a read of the said, I remember reading a read of the post on LinkedIn when the tariffs um post on LinkedIn when the tariffs um post on LinkedIn when the tariffs um concept appeared. I don't know if you concept appeared. I don't know if you concept appeared. I don't know if you already um discuss about this here but already um discuss about this here but already um discuss about this here but he was mentioning something like I think he was mentioning something like I think he was mentioning something like I think in the US what we should do with in the US what we should do with in the US what we should do with manufacturing it's just to try to manufacturing it's just to try to manufacturing it's just to try to automatize everything no we have the automatize everything no we have the automatize everything no we have the technology we have the ideas we have so technology we have the ideas we have so technology we have the ideas we have so what do you think do you think it's what do you think do you think it's what do you think do you think it's going to happen so do you think you can going to happen so do you think you can going to happen so do you think you can replicate some of the replicate some of the replicate some of the manufacturing stuff that will come back manufacturing stuff that will come back manufacturing stuff that will come back to the US just with robots and to the US just with robots and to the US just with robots and automation and I I'll I'll bite first automation and I I'll I'll bite first automation and I I'll I'll bite first because this is super complex So um because this is super complex So um because this is super complex So um manufacturing in the US in terms of manufacturing in the US in terms of manufacturing in the US in terms of productivity hasn't been hasn't been productivity hasn't been hasn't been productivity hasn't been hasn't been this higher for a long time. The this higher for a long time. The this higher for a long time. The productivity is amazing but the focus of

productivity is amazing but the focus of productivity is amazing but the focus of what we're making in the US we're making what we're making in the US we're making what we're making in the US we're making high quality highly complex very high quality highly complex very high quality highly complex very expensive things and we're doing it expensive things and we're doing it expensive things and we're doing it incredibly well and we're being incredibly well and we're being incredibly well and we're being incredibly productive. What the US has incredibly productive. What the US has incredibly productive. What the US has not and I don't think that it will focus not and I don't think that it will focus not and I don't think that it will focus is to make cheaper things that have is to make cheaper things that have is to make cheaper things that have little value because we cannot compete little value because we cannot compete little value because we cannot compete with the labor and policies of other with the labor and policies of other with the labor and policies of other places. So again back back to being in places. So again back back to being in places. So again back back to being in specific uh how many manufacturing jobs specific uh how many manufacturing jobs specific uh how many manufacturing jobs are going to come back depends what we are going to come back depends what we are going to come back depends what we want to manufacture. Are we are we going want to manufacture. Are we are we going want to manufacture. Are we are we going to make more rockets and really to make more rockets and really to make more rockets and really expensive machinery? Sure. Uh are we expensive machinery? Sure. Uh are we expensive machinery? Sure. Uh are we going to do more thermoplastics and going to do more thermoplastics and going to do more thermoplastics and disposable things here? I you know I I I disposable things here? I you know I I I disposable things here? I you know I I I don't see it. Anyway, I I wanted to I don't see it. Anyway, I I wanted to I don't see it. Anyway, I I wanted to I wanted to take that stop first and let wanted to take that stop first and let wanted to take that stop first and let uh let Leonard beat me up with his uh I uh let Leonard beat me up with his uh I uh let Leonard beat me up with his uh I mean this sounds this sounds like the mean this sounds this sounds like the mean this sounds this sounds like the same problem Germany has, right? It's same problem Germany has, right? It's same problem Germany has, right? It's the same problem. Germany makes high-end the same problem. Germany makes high-end the same problem. Germany makes high-end high-quality products and they have a high-quality products and they have a high-quality products and they have a workforce tuned to do that. And then workforce tuned to do that. And then workforce tuned to do that. And then when people are not wanting as much of when people are not wanting as much of when people are not wanting as much of that, Germany struggles, countries that that, Germany struggles, countries that that, Germany struggles, countries that are making the thermoplastics and stuff are making the thermoplastics and stuff are making the thermoplastics and stuff like that, they're doing their thing.

like that, they're doing their thing. like that, they're doing their thing. And this highly trained, ultra high And this highly trained, ultra high And this highly trained, ultra high skilled for high-end products, they skilled for high-end products, they skilled for high-end products, they actually suffer in that situation. No actually suffer in that situation. No actually suffer in that situation. No doubt about it, you know, and we're doubt about it, you know, and we're doubt about it, you know, and we're we're seeing that. Um, yeah. And and you we're seeing that. Um, yeah. And and you we're seeing that. Um, yeah. And and you know, and we have, you know, there's a know, and we have, you know, there's a know, and we have, you know, there's a few good examples. I think it was few good examples. I think it was few good examples. I think it was um um um Toyota early 2000s I think in their Toyota early 2000s I think in their Toyota early 2000s I think in their Kentucky some some plant in the in the Kentucky some some plant in the in the Kentucky some some plant in the in the Midwest you know they brought a lot of Midwest you know they brought a lot of Midwest you know they brought a lot of the expertise over from Japan um one of the expertise over from Japan um one of the expertise over from Japan um one of the things uh that they I I I thought it the things uh that they I I I thought it the things uh that they I I I thought it was called FEMA not to be conflated with was called FEMA not to be conflated with was called FEMA not to be conflated with the federal guys but basically they the federal guys but basically they the federal guys but basically they found uh a a local trade school they found uh a a local trade school they found uh a a local trade school they created a program of a 21 month uh look created a program of a 21 month uh look created a program of a 21 month uh look listen to listen to listen to learners. It was a 21-month program learners. It was a 21-month program learners. It was a 21-month program where they would bring uh you know kids where they would bring uh you know kids where they would bring uh you know kids from uh you know going through uh high from uh you know going through uh high from uh you know going through uh high school to get trained into what they school to get trained into what they school to get trained into what they would need to know so that 21 months would need to know so that 21 months would need to know so that 21 months later if they wanted to they can come in later if they wanted to they can come in later if they wanted to they can come in into this factory job. Uh we don't have into this factory job. Uh we don't have into this factory job. Uh we don't have a lot of that at scale in the US. uh as a lot of that at scale in the US. uh as a lot of that at scale in the US. uh as of this week um I think there's over of this week um I think there's over of this week um I think there's over half a million manufacturing jobs half a million manufacturing jobs half a million manufacturing jobs available today in the US. It's not that available today in the US. It's not that available today in the US. It's not that there are no jobs, there are jobs. We there are no jobs, there are jobs. We there are no jobs, there are jobs. We don't have enough people with a desired don't have enough people with a desired don't have enough people with a desired skill set to fill them today. and we're

skill set to fill them today. and we're skill set to fill them today. and we're going to need, you know, there is again going to need, you know, there is again going to need, you know, there is again it's super complex but education going it's super complex but education going it's super complex but education going back to trades um culturally talking back to trades um culturally talking back to trades um culturally talking about how cool it is to work in about how cool it is to work in about how cool it is to work in manufacturing like I think is it needs manufacturing like I think is it needs manufacturing like I think is it needs to happen for this thing to have a a a a to happen for this thing to have a a a a to happen for this thing to have a a a a long-term fix cuz it's not going to be long-term fix cuz it's not going to be long-term fix cuz it's not going to be short term. Yeah. It's parallel to the short term. Yeah. It's parallel to the short term. Yeah. It's parallel to the same problem we're seeing in farms. same problem we're seeing in farms. same problem we're seeing in farms. These these land owner the farm owners These these land owner the farm owners These these land owner the farm owners would happily hire local kids would happily hire local kids would happily hire local kids people from America to work on a farm. people from America to work on a farm. people from America to work on a farm. But guess what? None of these people But guess what? None of these people But guess what? None of these people want to do the job. And no one wants to want to do the job. And no one wants to want to do the job. And no one wants to work in a factory anymore either. And so work in a factory anymore either. And so work in a factory anymore either. And so that's a it's a cultural it's a vibe that's a it's a cultural it's a vibe that's a it's a cultural it's a vibe thing. It's a whatever thing that says thing. It's a whatever thing that says thing. It's a whatever thing that says I'm too good for this or I don't want to I'm too good for this or I don't want to I'm too good for this or I don't want to do this work. We have to get past that. do this work. We have to get past that. do this work. We have to get past that. And I don't know if we will. And so if And I don't know if we will. And so if And I don't know if we will. And so if we don't then we have to find ways to we don't then we have to find ways to we don't then we have to find ways to automate it. And when people say, "Can automate it. And when people say, "Can automate it. And when people say, "Can we get to that perfect the most overused we get to that perfect the most overused we get to that perfect the most overused meme and picture in the world is the meme and picture in the world is the meme and picture in the world is the Fremont, you know, Tesla factory, lights Fremont, you know, Tesla factory, lights Fremont, you know, Tesla factory, lights out factory, that's what everybody out factory, that's what everybody out factory, that's what everybody always shows. It's like, oh, let me show always shows. It's like, oh, let me show always shows. It's like, oh, let me show you. Here it is. This is how you do it, you. Here it is. This is how you do it, you. Here it is. This is how you do it, you know, and so it is possible. It's you know, and so it is possible. It's you know, and so it is possible. It's hard to do something."

hard to do something." hard to do something." Also, you know, it's a big Also, you know, it's a big Also, you know, it's a big transportation problem. Um, if you don't transportation problem. Um, if you don't transportation problem. Um, if you don't live in one of the areas in the US that live in one of the areas in the US that live in one of the areas in the US that is easy to, you know, get around, you is easy to, you know, get around, you is easy to, you know, get around, you have to have a car. You have to have have to have a car. You have to have have to have a car. You have to have someone who has a car uh to take you to someone who has a car uh to take you to someone who has a car uh to take you to these far remote, far flowing places. these far remote, far flowing places. these far remote, far flowing places. And for for what, right? The the the And for for what, right? The the the And for for what, right? The the the time and the cost that it's going to time and the cost that it's going to time and the cost that it's going to take you to get there may wipe out the take you to get there may wipe out the take you to get there may wipe out the the waves that you're trying to make. the waves that you're trying to make. the waves that you're trying to make. Yeah. So, I think that's hard as well. Yeah. So, I think that's hard as well. Yeah. So, I think that's hard as well. And then it's, you know, have you seen And then it's, you know, have you seen And then it's, you know, have you seen car prices lately? Yeah, I mean price is car prices lately? Yeah, I mean price is car prices lately? Yeah, I mean price is through the roof. It's interesting when through the roof. It's interesting when through the roof. It's interesting when you talk about transportation, it gives you talk about transportation, it gives you talk about transportation, it gives me a flashback to I'm just going to say me a flashback to I'm just going to say me a flashback to I'm just going to say the best TED talk of all time. Certainly the best TED talk of all time. Certainly the best TED talk of all time. Certainly my favorite, but it is ranked maybe the my favorite, but it is ranked maybe the my favorite, but it is ranked maybe the best ever. If you've ever listened to best ever. If you've ever listened to best ever. If you've ever listened to the the guy who the the Chobani yogurt the the guy who the the Chobani yogurt the the guy who the the Chobani yogurt guy who the story is you'll start guy who the story is you'll start guy who the story is you'll start crying. you know, you want to talk and crying. you know, you want to talk and crying. you know, you want to talk and remember he said I didn't have enough remember he said I didn't have enough remember he said I didn't have enough employees to we brought this thing back employees to we brought this thing back employees to we brought this thing back to life in northern you know in New York to life in northern you know in New York to life in northern you know in New York and so I bust people from different and so I bust people from different and so I bust people from different towns to come in and work you know you towns to come in and work you know you towns to come in and work you know you you made me think of that Debbie when you made me think of that Debbie when you made me think of that Debbie when you thought about transportation it's you thought about transportation it's you thought about transportation it's like there was there was a will there's like there was there was a will there's like there was there was a will there's a way you know and God I love that TED a way you know and God I love that TED a way you know and God I love that TED talk and he goes I have a vision of a talk and he goes I have a vision of a talk and he goes I have a vision of a community and we're going to have community and we're going to have community and we're going to have baseball fields and we're going to have baseball fields and we're going to have baseball fields and we're going to have all this stuff. And that's what the goal all this stuff. And that's what the goal all this stuff. And that's what the goal of the business was was to make this of the business was was to make this of the business was was to make this amazing town where, you know, we had

amazing town where, you know, we had amazing town where, you know, we had this rust belt thing in the United this rust belt thing in the United this rust belt thing in the United States, you know, where dying factories States, you know, where dying factories States, you know, where dying factories and stuff like that. Um, anything's and stuff like that. Um, anything's and stuff like that. Um, anything's possible if you if you have the will. possible if you if you have the will. possible if you if you have the will. For sure. Well, you know, I mean, For sure. Well, you know, I mean, For sure. Well, you know, I mean, it if the US wants to compete with China it if the US wants to compete with China it if the US wants to compete with China in in in manufacturing, they there probably has manufacturing, they there probably has manufacturing, they there probably has to be a middle ground between how China to be a middle ground between how China to be a middle ground between how China does stuff and the dynamic they have uh does stuff and the dynamic they have uh does stuff and the dynamic they have uh including the low wages and all that including the low wages and all that including the low wages and all that stuff and then how we do it currently stuff and then how we do it currently stuff and then how we do it currently um in the US, right? There has to be a um in the US, right? There has to be a um in the US, right? There has to be a middle ground. And so people have to middle ground. And so people have to middle ground. And so people have to think in terms of migratory workforce. think in terms of migratory workforce. think in terms of migratory workforce. To Debbiey's point, you you move where To Debbiey's point, you you move where To Debbiey's point, you you move where the job is. And as a company, you might the job is. And as a company, you might the job is. And as a company, you might have to set up like campuses with nets have to set up like campuses with nets have to set up like campuses with nets and stuff like that uh on the top and stuff like that uh on the top and stuff like that uh on the top floors. uh that may have to be what you floors. uh that may have to be what you floors. uh that may have to be what you have to do in order to bring those those have to do in order to bring those those have to do in order to bring those those manufacturing, you know, jobs and that manufacturing, you know, jobs and that manufacturing, you know, jobs and that manufacturing business back on shore.

manufacturing business back on shore. manufacturing business back on shore. Um may maybe what we should be talking Um may maybe what we should be talking Um may maybe what we should be talking about is the opposite. May maybe we about is the opposite. May maybe we about is the opposite. May maybe we should just stop consuming so much here. should just stop consuming so much here. should just stop consuming so much here. Here here's something nuts. Here's Here here's something nuts. Here's Here here's something nuts. Here's something Well, no, but no, no, of something Well, no, but no, no, of something Well, no, but no, no, of course I know. Uh so you know so in the course I know. Uh so you know so in the course I know. Uh so you know so in the in the US I'm going to I'm going to talk in the US I'm going to I'm going to talk in the US I'm going to I'm going to talk in general globalist terms in case in in general globalist terms in case in in general globalist terms in case in case someone wants to come and uh have a case someone wants to come and uh have a case someone wants to come and uh have a fight on the comments you LinkedIn tough fight on the comments you LinkedIn tough fight on the comments you LinkedIn tough people. Yeah. Someone's going to make a people. Yeah. Someone's going to make a people. Yeah. Someone's going to make a comment about dolls. It's cool. Um so comment about dolls. It's cool. Um so comment about dolls. It's cool. Um so you know in the US we have um I get it. you know in the US we have um I get it. you know in the US we have um I get it. because we don't make a lot of things, because we don't make a lot of things, because we don't make a lot of things, we end up we end up we end up importing a lot of things and we have importing a lot of things and we have importing a lot of things and we have higher wages, etc., etc., etc. Uh, in in higher wages, etc., etc., etc. Uh, in in higher wages, etc., etc., etc. Uh, in in China, they make a lot of things, but China, they make a lot of things, but China, they make a lot of things, but wages in China are very low. Uh, their wages in China are very low. Uh, their wages in China are very low. Uh, their social safety net is not a great net social safety net is not a great net social safety net is not a great net since Leonard's talking about suicide since Leonard's talking about suicide since Leonard's talking about suicide nets here. 35.

nets here. 35. nets here. 35. Yeah, that's that's an issue. Uh and so Yeah, that's that's an issue. Uh and so Yeah, that's that's an issue. Uh and so I I don't know if uh if long term it it I I don't know if uh if long term it it I I don't know if uh if long term it it makes sense to to have this one country makes sense to to have this one country makes sense to to have this one country who makes a lot of things but does not who makes a lot of things but does not who makes a lot of things but does not consume a lot of the things that they consume a lot of the things that they consume a lot of the things that they make. How sustainable is sending over to make. How sustainable is sending over to make. How sustainable is sending over to a place where because we don't make a a place where because we don't make a a place where because we don't make a lot of things we have to consume a lot lot of things we have to consume a lot lot of things we have to consume a lot of things but we are assuming this of things but we are assuming this of things but we are assuming this unlimited market for all this stuff. unlimited market for all this stuff. unlimited market for all this stuff. Right? You know, China spent a gazillion Right? You know, China spent a gazillion Right? You know, China spent a gazillion dollar, a gazillion um amount of money dollar, a gazillion um amount of money dollar, a gazillion um amount of money in the last, you know, I don't know, in the last, you know, I don't know, in the last, you know, I don't know, three, four, five years. They made a big three, four, five years. They made a big three, four, five years. They made a big bet that we in the US, we're going to bet that we in the US, we're going to bet that we in the US, we're going to buy more stuff from them. And look buy more stuff from them. And look buy more stuff from them. And look what's happened with a tariff back and what's happened with a tariff back and what's happened with a tariff back and forth. Like, it's not great in China forth. Like, it's not great in China forth. Like, it's not great in China right now for that market. And we're right now for that market. And we're right now for that market. And we're still having our issues here. Well, I still having our issues here. Well, I still having our issues here. Well, I mean my so my so actually this so my so for the because actually this so my so for the because we care about planet earth we care about planet earth we care about planet earth does this you know when are we going to does this you know when are we going to does this you know when are we going to stop consuming as much which sends a stop consuming as much which sends a stop consuming as much which sends a message to the market and there's a a message to the market and there's a a message to the market and there's a a long-term correction that maybe we don't long-term correction that maybe we don't long-term correction that maybe we don't need that much stuff and we don't need need that much stuff and we don't need need that much stuff and we don't need that many factories and we don't need we that many factories and we don't need we that many factories and we don't need we don't need anyway there Leonard sorry

don't need anyway there Leonard sorry don't need anyway there Leonard sorry I'll get off my population decline and I'll get off my population decline and I'll get off my population decline and inflation that will kill consumption or inflation that will kill consumption or inflation that will kill consumption or it'll reduce the physical production and it'll reduce the physical production and it'll reduce the physical production and waste and or and over consumption of waste and or and over consumption of waste and or and over consumption of physical stuff and maybe some digital physical stuff and maybe some digital physical stuff and maybe some digital virtual service related stuff but you virtual service related stuff but you virtual service related stuff but you know populations are declining know populations are declining know populations are declining everywhere right so everywhere right so everywhere right so um I don't know if that's a good thing um I don't know if that's a good thing um I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing I don't know we we We or a bad thing I don't know we we We or a bad thing I don't know we we We live we live too long now. But your your live we live too long now. But your your live we live too long now. But your your wish is coming true in a certain form. wish is coming true in a certain form. wish is coming true in a certain form. All we need is the inflation and we all All we need is the inflation and we all All we need is the inflation and we all become much poorer so we can't consume become much poorer so we can't consume become much poorer so we can't consume as much cuz everything is expensive. And as much cuz everything is expensive. And as much cuz everything is expensive. And that might actually be par, right? That that might actually be par, right? That that might actually be par, right? That might be where things should be. In in might be where things should be. In in might be where things should be. In in the United States, food is dirt cheap. the United States, food is dirt cheap. the United States, food is dirt cheap. You go to Europe, it's expensive, right? You go to Europe, it's expensive, right? You go to Europe, it's expensive, right? You get a a latte, latte in the United You get a a latte, latte in the United You get a a latte, latte in the United States is like this big, right? and you States is like this big, right? and you States is like this big, right? and you get a latte in the UK, it's like that get a latte in the UK, it's like that get a latte in the UK, it's like that big. You know, my trade imbalance with big. You know, my trade imbalance with big. You know, my trade imbalance with Starbucks is huge.

You keep offshoring your money to You keep offshoring your money to Starbucks and Yeah. Starbucks and Yeah. Starbucks and Yeah. We better learn how to plant the veggie We better learn how to plant the veggie We better learn how to plant the veggie garden and and really come to find a garden and and really come to find a garden and and really come to find a love for bell peppers and zucchinis. love for bell peppers and zucchinis. love for bell peppers and zucchinis. Yeah. You know what? We we should we Yeah. You know what? We we should we Yeah. You know what? We we should we should um we should have a conference should um we should have a conference should um we should have a conference that's like a counter it's a that's like a counter it's a that's like a counter it's a counterpoint to Davos because I think we counterpoint to Davos because I think we counterpoint to Davos because I think we probably have better solutions and all probably have better solutions and all probably have better solutions and all those leaders getting together and Davos those leaders getting together and Davos those leaders getting together and Davos come up with come up with come up with right right right and and we do it over Zoom. We don't and and we do it over Zoom. We don't and and we do it over Zoom. We don't have to fuel up the G6 and burn all that have to fuel up the G6 and burn all that have to fuel up the G6 and burn all that fuel flying to Switzerland. fuel flying to Switzerland. fuel flying to Switzerland. Yeah, I know there's a lot of a lot of Yeah, I know there's a lot of a lot of Yeah, I know there's a lot of a lot of problems. But again, going back to hype problems. But again, going back to hype problems. But again, going back to hype and misconceptions, when you start to and misconceptions, when you start to and misconceptions, when you start to formulate your strategy based on formulate your strategy based on formulate your strategy based on misconceptions and misconceptions and misconceptions and just, you know, just ridiculous just, you know, just ridiculous just, you know, just ridiculous nonsense, you're going to end up in a nonsense, you're going to end up in a nonsense, you're going to end up in a really wrong place. And I think that's, really wrong place. And I think that's, really wrong place. And I think that's, you know, especially with like AI AI, you know, especially with like AI AI, you know, especially with like AI AI, we're seeing a lot of that happen.

we're seeing a lot of that happen. we're seeing a lot of that happen. Um, and uh, so you know what that um, I Um, and uh, so you know what that um, I Um, and uh, so you know what that um, I was listening to that little one-hour was listening to that little one-hour was listening to that little one-hour podcast yesterday about AI from it was podcast yesterday about AI from it was podcast yesterday about AI from it was on the Wall Street Journal podcast thing on the Wall Street Journal podcast thing on the Wall Street Journal podcast thing and it was a guy who used to be at Open and it was a guy who used to be at Open and it was a guy who used to be at Open AI and um, it was interesting. You know, AI and um, it was interesting. You know, AI and um, it was interesting. You know, everyone always talks about don't worry everyone always talks about don't worry everyone always talks about don't worry we've had different revolutions and new we've had different revolutions and new we've had different revolutions and new technology and it displaced workers but technology and it displaced workers but technology and it displaced workers but it created more jobs and all that kind it created more jobs and all that kind it created more jobs and all that kind of stuff. And this guy was just going, of stuff. And this guy was just going, of stuff. And this guy was just going, "Well, yes, in the past when your job "Well, yes, in the past when your job "Well, yes, in the past when your job was was was automated, you went further up the automated, you went further up the automated, you went further up the stack. You were freed up, you know, and stack. You were freed up, you know, and stack. You were freed up, you know, and you found a job that couldn't be you found a job that couldn't be you found a job that couldn't be automated and that was your new job. You automated and that was your new job. You automated and that was your new job. You went higher up, higher level, whatever, went higher up, higher level, whatever, went higher up, higher level, whatever, strategic thinking, all that kind of strategic thinking, all that kind of strategic thinking, all that kind of stuff." It's like the problem with this stuff." It's like the problem with this stuff." It's like the problem with this AI right now that's exponentially going AI right now that's exponentially going AI right now that's exponentially going so fast is it's going to automate your so fast is it's going to automate your so fast is it's going to automate your job, especially if you're a software job, especially if you're a software job, especially if you're a software developer like me. Um, and then when you developer like me. Um, and then when you developer like me. Um, and then when you go looking for that next job that can't go looking for that next job that can't go looking for that next job that can't be automated, guess who you're going to be automated, guess who you're going to be automated, guess who you're going to find waiting for you there? The find waiting for you there? The find waiting for you there? The exponential AI that's already automated exponential AI that's already automated exponential AI that's already automated that job, too. And then the next one.

that job, too. And then the next one. that job, too. And then the next one. And so his concern and it's funny cuz uh And so his concern and it's funny cuz uh And so his concern and it's funny cuz uh you know uh it was funny Chaitton you know uh it was funny Chaitton you know uh it was funny Chaitton Chararma was like what is the deal with Chararma was like what is the deal with Chararma was like what is the deal with all these really smart people involved all these really smart people involved all these really smart people involved in AI? Why are they so negative about in AI? Why are they so negative about in AI? Why are they so negative about you know because there's these a lot you know because there's these a lot you know because there's these a lot there's a lot of people who talk about there's a lot of people who talk about there's a lot of people who talk about AI is going to usher in this world of AI is going to usher in this world of AI is going to usher in this world of abundance and all this great stuff and abundance and all this great stuff and abundance and all this great stuff and it's going to be magical. There's a lot it's going to be magical. There's a lot it's going to be magical. There's a lot of people who talk like that. A lot of of people who talk like that. A lot of of people who talk like that. A lot of them abundance for who? and and and yeah them abundance for who? and and and yeah them abundance for who? and and and yeah and you know you want to talk about and you know you want to talk about and you know you want to talk about having a conference or we try to figure having a conference or we try to figure having a conference or we try to figure this stuff out and then there's the this stuff out and then there's the this stuff out and then there's the skeptics that say no AI on these skeptics that say no AI on these skeptics that say no AI on these computers is going to eliminate all the computers is going to eliminate all the computers is going to eliminate all the white collar jobs first and then AI white collar jobs first and then AI white collar jobs first and then AI plugged into robots is going to plugged into robots is going to plugged into robots is going to eliminate all the blue collar jobs eliminate all the blue collar jobs eliminate all the blue collar jobs and what happens then is it going to be and what happens then is it going to be and what happens then is it going to be this world of abundance where all these this world of abundance where all these this world of abundance where all these machines are doing thing that sounds machines are doing thing that sounds machines are doing thing that sounds great But I think we have to reboot or great But I think we have to reboot or great But I think we have to reboot or re our economy, our society, our re our economy, our society, our re our economy, our society, our government will have to be modified government will have to be modified government will have to be modified globally because AI is not compatible globally because AI is not compatible globally because AI is not compatible with how we do life today. And what I with how we do life today. And what I with how we do life today. And what I mean by that, uh, capitalism, and I'm mean by that, uh, capitalism, and I'm mean by that, uh, capitalism, and I'm I'm a capitalist, but I get the idea I'm a capitalist, but I get the idea I'm a capitalist, but I get the idea that, you know, if a if a company all of that, you know, if a if a company all of that, you know, if a if a company all of a sudden can replace all of its workers a sudden can replace all of its workers a sudden can replace all of its workers with AI, I know how they behave. They're with AI, I know how they behave. They're with AI, I know how they behave. They're not going to say, "I'm still going to not going to say, "I'm still going to not going to say, "I'm still going to pay you six figures a year for sitting pay you six figures a year for sitting pay you six figures a year for sitting at home and playing Xbox. You're just

at home and playing Xbox. You're just at home and playing Xbox. You're just going to not have a job anymore, and going to not have a job anymore, and going to not have a job anymore, and you're going to be poor, and you're you're going to be poor, and you're you're going to be poor, and you're going to be on the streets." Well, what going to be on the streets." Well, what going to be on the streets." Well, what happened? And so our the whole way we do happened? And so our the whole way we do happened? And so our the whole way we do things is based on that. And so we have things is based on that. And so we have things is based on that. And so we have to and I know what people that's why to and I know what people that's why to and I know what people that's why people started talking about universal people started talking about universal people started talking about universal basic income. Um something like that on basic income. Um something like that on basic income. Um something like that on steroids. some giant thing is going to steroids. some giant thing is going to steroids. some giant thing is going to have to happen at a governmental level have to happen at a governmental level have to happen at a governmental level if this is going to play out without a if this is going to play out without a if this is going to play out without a society burning society to the ground society burning society to the ground society burning society to the ground with just literally I'm burning with just literally I'm burning with just literally I'm burning everything to the ground and we're going everything to the ground and we're going everything to the ground and we're going to start over cuz at some point when to start over cuz at some point when to start over cuz at some point when everybody's dirt poor and on the streets everybody's dirt poor and on the streets everybody's dirt poor and on the streets and guess what hey all you businesses and guess what hey all you businesses and guess what hey all you businesses that are going to make so much more that are going to make so much more that are going to make so much more money because of productivity of AI well money because of productivity of AI well money because of productivity of AI well guess what there's no guess what there's no guess what there's no one there's no one to buy your products one there's no one to buy your products one there's no one to buy your products because they're all dirt poor. And because they're all dirt poor. And because they're all dirt poor. And that's why we're going to create the matrix. That's the That's the other matrix. That's the That's the other solution. Either we figure out a new solution. Either we figure out a new solution. Either we figure out a new government, a new contract with society government, a new contract with society government, a new contract with society of how this all works or we create the of how this all works or we create the of how this all works or we create the matrix and just start plugging everybody matrix and just start plugging everybody matrix and just start plugging everybody into the matrix. Yeah. You you're going into the matrix. Yeah. You you're going into the matrix. Yeah. You you're going to run the data centers. You're going to to run the data centers. You're going to to run the data centers. You're going to power the data centers. That's what power the data centers. That's what power the data centers. That's what people don't know is all these data people don't know is all these data people don't know is all these data centers we're building, they think it's centers we're building, they think it's centers we're building, they think it's for this one thing, but it's actually for this one thing, but it's actually for this one thing, but it's actually for the matrix. Actually, no. that that for the matrix. Actually, no. that that for the matrix. Actually, no. that that would be the job. So, what they're going would be the job. So, what they're going would be the job. So, what they're going to do instead of all these like power to do instead of all these like power to do instead of all these like power plants and stuff, what they're going to plants and stuff, what they're going to plants and stuff, what they're going to do is they're going to set up fitness do is they're going to set up fitness do is they're going to set up fitness centers with bikes that are plugged in centers with bikes that are plugged in centers with bikes that are plugged in and you're you're basically working out

and you're you're basically working out and you're you're basically working out and you're powering you're providing and you're powering you're providing and you're powering you're providing power to these hypers scale uh uh AI power to these hypers scale uh uh AI power to these hypers scale uh uh AI data centers. That's how it'll work. data centers. That's how it'll work. data centers. That's how it'll work. That I always love that's a good one. That I always love that's a good one. That I always love that's a good one. That's a good idea, right? That's a good idea, right? That's a good idea, right? as well. I love publishing the meme or as well. I love publishing the meme or as well. I love publishing the meme or the video clip. I love the scene in the the video clip. I love the scene in the the video clip. I love the scene in the Matrix. I love the scene in the Matrix Matrix. I love the scene in the Matrix Matrix. I love the scene in the Matrix when Morpheus kind of talks about in the when Morpheus kind of talks about in the when Morpheus kind of talks about in the 21st century how we marveled at our 21st century how we marveled at our 21st century how we marveled at our greatness as we created AI. I know that greatness as we created AI. I know that greatness as we created AI. I know that line. Oh my gosh. And he's like, and we line. Oh my gosh. And he's like, and we line. Oh my gosh. And he's like, and we were all probably patting each other on were all probably patting each other on were all probably patting each other on the backs and everything. And then the the backs and everything. And then the the backs and everything. And then the next thing he says is, we don't know who next thing he says is, we don't know who next thing he says is, we don't know who struck first us. And and that's he struck first us. And and that's he struck first us. And and that's he nailed it. That's what's gonna happen. nailed it. That's what's gonna happen. nailed it. That's what's gonna happen. But, you know, here's the thing. Um, But, you know, here's the thing. Um, But, you know, here's the thing. Um, there is something after, you know, there is something after, you know, there is something after, you know, that's going to happen and we've talked that's going to happen and we've talked that's going to happen and we've talked about IoT coffee talk. You're going to about IoT coffee talk. You're going to about IoT coffee talk. You're going to be Go Go ahead, Debbie. Go ahead.

Uh, you're in the void. Uh, you're in the void. Choppy. the actual pre and the premise Choppy. the actual pre and the premise Choppy. the actual pre and the premise in the in um you're back by the way that's not perfect that's not perfect what I think she just dropped into the I think she just dropped into the matrix. Are you okay? matrix. Are you okay? matrix. Are you okay? She's unaware. You're unaware that you She's unaware. You're unaware that you She's unaware. You're unaware that you don't are breaking up and you're talking don't are breaking up and you're talking don't are breaking up and you're talking to yourself. Yeah. to yourself. Yeah. to yourself. Yeah. It's being a plumber. There's going to It's being a plumber. There's going to It's being a plumber. There's going to be jobs to clean up the AI mess, right? be jobs to clean up the AI mess, right? be jobs to clean up the AI mess, right? Because the misconception, the big Because the misconception, the big Because the misconception, the big misconception is these things are so misconception is these things are so misconception is these things are so good that they will replace people's good that they will replace people's good that they will replace people's jobs entirely, right? I think we talked jobs entirely, right? I think we talked jobs entirely, right? I think we talked about before is addressing underved and about before is addressing underved and about before is addressing underved and unserved um aspects of anyone's job or unserved um aspects of anyone's job or unserved um aspects of anyone's job or an operation. Yeah. So, you know, we an operation. Yeah. So, you know, we an operation. Yeah. So, you know, we always are talking about when do we always are talking about when do we always are talking about when do we reach the singularity? When do we get to reach the singularity? When do we get to reach the singularity? When do we get to AGI and then when do we get to AI super AGI and then when do we get to AI super AGI and then when do we get to AI super intelligence is generative AI based on intelligence is generative AI based on intelligence is generative AI based on the transformer is that the path or some the transformer is that the path or some the transformer is that the path or some people are saying no it turns out that's people are saying no it turns out that's people are saying no it turns out that's going to run out of gas and that's not going to run out of gas and that's not going to run out of gas and that's not the path to it got to be something else the path to it got to be something else the path to it got to be something else they're saying and then of course they're saying and then of course they're saying and then of course there's people who say no it is the path there's people who say no it is the path there's people who say no it is the path and uh and so when I and I always say and uh and so when I and I always say and uh and so when I and I always say you know our new touring test for AI is you know our new touring test for AI is you know our new touring test for AI is the AI needs to be able to purchase a the AI needs to be able to purchase a the AI needs to be able to purchase a some furniture from a Kia some furniture from a Kia some furniture from a Kia and they need to get it and get it in

and they need to get it and get it in and they need to get it and get it in the house and they sit down and they the house and they sit down and they the house and they sit down and they need to unpack it and they need to read need to unpack it and they need to read need to unpack it and they need to read the instructions and they need to build the instructions and they need to build the instructions and they need to build the furniture. That's my new touring the furniture. That's my new touring the furniture. That's my new touring test for AI. And right now AI can't do test for AI. And right now AI can't do test for AI. And right now AI can't do that. And I hear lots of people go that. And I hear lots of people go that. And I hear lots of people go factories are complex dexterity doing factories are complex dexterity doing factories are complex dexterity doing things like that like they could never things like that like they could never things like that like they could never build furniture. What this guy is saying build furniture. What this guy is saying build furniture. What this guy is saying though is when we have this super though is when we have this super though is when we have this super intelligence, it'll be so smart that it intelligence, it'll be so smart that it intelligence, it'll be so smart that it will be the one who designs and invents will be the one who designs and invents will be the one who designs and invents the new robots who are super agile uh the new robots who are super agile uh the new robots who are super agile uh that can do that because it's our own that can do that because it's our own that can do that because it's our own failings as humans that we're not able failings as humans that we're not able failings as humans that we're not able to design an agile enough robot to do to design an agile enough robot to do to design an agile enough robot to do all that dexteritous stuff that you all that dexteritous stuff that you all that dexteritous stuff that you might need on an assembly line or on a might need on an assembly line or on a might need on an assembly line or on a construction site building a house or construction site building a house or construction site building a house or building your IKEA furniture. uh that building your IKEA furniture. uh that building your IKEA furniture. uh that super intelligence that's smarter than super intelligence that's smarter than super intelligence that's smarter than everybody combined on the planet is everybody combined on the planet is everybody combined on the planet is what's going to design the new robots uh what's going to design the new robots uh what's going to design the new robots uh to do all that stuff. So uh crazy so to do all that stuff. So uh crazy so to do all that stuff. So uh crazy so much stuff to ponder. Yeah. Yeah. Well, much stuff to ponder. Yeah. Yeah. Well, much stuff to ponder. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, but one of these robots will you know, but one of these robots will you know, but one of these robots will will just brute force the nuclear codes, will just brute force the nuclear codes, will just brute force the nuclear codes, you know. No, it's not even that. It's you know. No, it's not even that. It's you know. No, it's not even that. It's this simple. It will. It will because AI this simple. It will. It will because AI this simple. It will. It will because AI is already lying to us. Not just is already lying to us. Not just is already lying to us. Not just hallucination. It's there are some there hallucination. It's there are some there hallucination. It's there are some there are cases now where it knows the right are cases now where it knows the right are cases now where it knows the right answer and it's telling humans the wrong answer and it's telling humans the wrong answer and it's telling humans the wrong answer. And here this is all we you have answer. And here this is all we you have answer. And here this is all we you have to do. It's not even that the AI has to to do. It's not even that the AI has to to do. It's not even that the AI has to have intent. It's the hallucination. So have intent. It's the hallucination. So have intent. It's the hallucination. So if you start to plug these things into if you start to plug these things into if you start to plug these things into military agents or you know um agents

military agents or you know um agents military agents or you know um agents for the military and uh you start to for the military and uh you start to for the military and uh you start to connect all these systems to a an AI connect all these systems to a an AI connect all these systems to a an AI platform. platform. platform. um eventually and most probably there um eventually and most probably there um eventually and most probably there will be a hallucination of a threat and will be a hallucination of a threat and will be a hallucination of a threat and the entire system will commit to it. the entire system will commit to it. the entire system will commit to it. What's the purpose of agentic AI is for What's the purpose of agentic AI is for What's the purpose of agentic AI is for rapid response right but then also rapid response right but then also rapid response right but then also massive scale out right that's the whole massive scale out right that's the whole massive scale out right that's the whole idea of aentic anything uh related to AI idea of aentic anything uh related to AI idea of aentic anything uh related to AI and it's that simple reality it's not and it's that simple reality it's not and it's that simple reality it's not even fiction that even fiction that even fiction that reality you don't even need to get the reality you don't even need to get the reality you don't even need to get the super genius AI there doesn't have to be super genius AI there doesn't have to be super genius AI there doesn't have to be an intent it there just has to be that an intent it there just has to be that an intent it there just has to be that one hallucination that creates creates a one hallucination that creates creates a one hallucination that creates creates a basically a basically a basically a false threat and that causes a trigger. false threat and that causes a trigger. false threat and that causes a trigger. And so you know And so you know And so you know MCP you MCP all your military systems MCP you MCP all your military systems MCP you MCP all your military systems together guess what that AI is going to together guess what that AI is going to together guess what that AI is going to look at you go you're down with MCP.

look at you go you're down with MCP. look at you go you're down with MCP. Yeah. You know me. So this is this is like the dangerous So this is this is like the dangerous uh path we're going down. a dangerous uh path we're going down. a dangerous uh path we're going down. a dangerous path. It's almost like we're on the path. It's almost like we're on the path. It's almost like we're on the highway to the danger zone. Well, think highway to the danger zone. Well, think highway to the danger zone. Well, think about it. You know, you don't see about it. You know, you don't see about it. You know, you don't see anybody in the in in industry adopting anybody in the in in industry adopting anybody in the in in industry adopting these systems for um infrastructure or these systems for um infrastructure or these systems for um infrastructure or you know like service orchestration or you know like service orchestration or you know like service orchestration or anything like that. It's too it's not anything like that. It's too it's not anything like that. It's too it's not reliable enough too many. They're all reliable enough too many. They're all reliable enough too many. They're all researching it though in the background. researching it though in the background. researching it though in the background. They are everybody's tinkering They are everybody's tinkering They are everybody's tinkering implemented it. No, no, they haven't implemented it. No, no, they haven't implemented it. No, no, they haven't implemented what can and can't do. But implemented what can and can't do. But implemented what can and can't do. But fundamentally, going back to your fundamentally, going back to your fundamentally, going back to your comment about transformers and and LLMs, comment about transformers and and LLMs, comment about transformers and and LLMs, they're fundamentally they're fundamentally they're fundamentally limited. You know, they will limited. You know, they will limited. You know, they will hallucinate. There's no way you can stop hallucinate. There's no way you can stop hallucinate. There's no way you can stop them. Rag doesn't stop them from them. Rag doesn't stop them from them. Rag doesn't stop them from hallucinating. They'll just hallucinate hallucinating. They'll just hallucinate hallucinating. They'll just hallucinate on top of your little on top of your little on top of your little rag, you know, and all you need is that rag, you know, and all you need is that rag, you know, and all you need is that one instance, that one hallucination one instance, that one hallucination one instance, that one hallucination that and again, it's not intent. It's a that and again, it's not intent. It's a that and again, it's not intent. It's a fundamental flaw in the technology that fundamental flaw in the technology that fundamental flaw in the technology that you've elevated up to a level of control you've elevated up to a level of control you've elevated up to a level of control that could be extremely dangerous. There that could be extremely dangerous. There that could be extremely dangerous. There was a flaw in the system of the matrix was a flaw in the system of the matrix was a flaw in the system of the matrix as we Oh my god. which necessitated the as we Oh my god. which necessitated the as we Oh my god. which necessitated the be the one because it was like a be the one because it was like a be the one because it was like a rounding error or whatever something rounding error or whatever something rounding error or whatever something like that that I think Rob is the one.

like that that I think Rob is the one. like that that I think Rob is the one. I'm the I'm the architect. You're the I'm the I'm the architect. You're the I'm the I'm the architect. You're the you're the architect. The first version you're the architect. The first version you're the architect. The first version of the Matrix was sublime. It was a of the Matrix was sublime. It was a of the Matrix was sublime. It was a perfect utopia. The problem is humans perfect utopia. The problem is humans perfect utopia. The problem is humans wouldn't accept the program. It was too wouldn't accept the program. It was too wouldn't accept the program. It was too good. good. good. Humans are accustomed to pain and Humans are accustomed to pain and Humans are accustomed to pain and suffering. So we had to redo the second suffering. So we had to redo the second suffering. So we had to redo the second matrix. Yeah. Yeah. matrix. Yeah. Yeah. matrix. Yeah. Yeah. Creepy. It is creepy. But sometimes I Creepy. It is creepy. But sometimes I Creepy. It is creepy. But sometimes I think I think sci-fi movies and books think I think sci-fi movies and books think I think sci-fi movies and books and sci-fi writers are the only true and sci-fi writers are the only true and sci-fi writers are the only true futurists and they they see things and futurists and they they see things and futurists and they they see things and they write about they write about they write about things that sometimes happen later on. things that sometimes happen later on. things that sometimes happen later on. No, her her is happening. So yes. Yeah, No, her her is happening. So yes. Yeah, No, her her is happening. So yes. Yeah, it is. It is creepy. Anyways, who wants it is. It is creepy. Anyways, who wants it is. It is creepy. Anyways, who wants to take us out? to take us out? to take us out? Hello. That's why you haven't been on Hello. That's why you haven't been on Hello. That's why you haven't been on for so long we forget your role. So do for so long we forget your role. So do for so long we forget your role. So do your job. Here we go. So folks, you've your job. Here we go. So folks, you've your job. Here we go. So folks, you've made it once again to the end of another made it once again to the end of another made it once again to the end of another educational, mentally enriching, educational, mentally enriching, educational, mentally enriching, and absolutely brain massage of an and absolutely brain massage of an and absolutely brain massage of an episode of IoT Coffee Talk. So we thank episode of IoT Coffee Talk. So we thank episode of IoT Coffee Talk. So we thank you for being here. We also thank your you for being here. We also thank your you for being here. We also thank your neighbor and your neighbor's neighbor neighbor and your neighbor's neighbor neighbor and your neighbor's neighbor for joining us here. Couple of for joining us here. Couple of for joining us here. Couple of reminders. All the extra money you have, reminders. All the extra money you have, reminders. All the extra money you have, all the money that AI is saving you, all the money that AI is saving you, all the money that AI is saving you, please donate it to a great cause, which please donate it to a great cause, which please donate it to a great cause, which is what is it, Rob? Elevate our kids.

is what is it, Rob? Elevate our kids. is what is it, Rob? Elevate our kids. Thank you. Where we're actually doing, Thank you. Where we're actually doing, Thank you. Where we're actually doing, we're trying to fund the defunding of we're trying to fund the defunding of we're trying to fund the defunding of things like the uh the internet for things like the uh the internet for things like the uh the internet for these kids in underserved communities. these kids in underserved communities. these kids in underserved communities. Seriously, any money we make, that's Seriously, any money we make, that's Seriously, any money we make, that's where it goes. So, thank you for uh your where it goes. So, thank you for uh your where it goes. So, thank you for uh your support. Always remember not to make any support. Always remember not to make any support. Always remember not to make any financial decisions or pull your 401k to financial decisions or pull your 401k to financial decisions or pull your 401k to invest in anything that comes out of our invest in anything that comes out of our invest in anything that comes out of our mouth. It will be really, really bad mouth. It will be really, really bad mouth. It will be really, really bad news. You don't want that outcome. But news. You don't want that outcome. But news. You don't want that outcome. But with that, stay safe. Take care of the with that, stay safe. Take care of the with that, stay safe. Take care of the machines. The machines will not take machines. The machines will not take machines. The machines will not take care of you. But we will be here next care of you. But we will be here next care of you. But we will be here next week on another episode of IoT Coffee week on another episode of IoT Coffee week on another episode of IoT Coffee Talk. Peace.