IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 305 - "OpenClaw" (The COVID Moment of AI)

Oh my god, that's so good. Oh my god, that's so good. All my friends are going to be there, All my friends are going to be there, All my friends are going to be there, too, you know. too, you know. too, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crap. In hell? Crap. In hell? Crap. In hell? Yeah, that's what they mean. Yeah, that's what they mean. Yeah, that's what they mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Highway to hell. Oh, that's awesome. Highway to hell. Oh, that's awesome. Highway to hell. Oh, that's awesome. >> Highway to hell. That's awesome. I love >> Highway to hell. That's awesome. I love >> Highway to hell. That's awesome. I love that. Happy GTC 2026 week, and welcome that. Happy GTC 2026 week, and welcome that. Happy GTC 2026 week, and welcome everyone. Yeah. everyone. Yeah. everyone. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome back or out of that. Welcome. Welcome back or out of that. Welcome. Welcome back or out of that. Is it done Is it still on today or is it Is it done Is it still on today or is it Is it done Is it still on today or is it done? done? done? I don't know. I had enough of it. I had I don't know. I had enough of it. I had I don't know. I had enough of it. I had to get out of there. Uh Uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's hilarious. Yeah, it's all good. >> That's hilarious. Yeah, it's all good. >> That's hilarious. Yeah, it's all good. Um Um Um That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, you That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, you That's cool. That's cool. Yeah, you know, lots of Wow, look at that. know, lots of Wow, look at that. know, lots of Wow, look at that. >> Lots of Lots of non-developers at GTC at >> Lots of Lots of non-developers at GTC at >> Lots of Lots of non-developers at GTC at this technical conference. this technical conference. this technical conference. Lots of Wall Street people. Yeah, lots Lots of Wall Street people. Yeah, lots Lots of Wall Street people. Yeah, lots of Wall Street people. of Wall Street people. of Wall Street people. >> like It's like, what are all you What >> like It's like, what are all you What >> like It's like, what are all you What are all you people doing here? This are all you people doing here? This are all you people doing here? This wasn't for you. And now everybody and wasn't for you. And now everybody and wasn't for you. And now everybody and their dog is at this conference. But their dog is at this conference. But their dog is at this conference. But they're tracking around big bags of cash they're tracking around big bags of cash they're tracking around big bags of cash just to just to just to give to anyone any young promising give to anyone any young promising give to anyone any young promising >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Anyone. Yeah. >> Anyone. Yeah. >> Anyone. Yeah. Um Pretty much. Um Pretty much. Um Pretty much. >> I was there. >> I was there. >> I was there. I had a lot of I had a lot of I had a lot of lot of talks. Lot I was freaking busy. lot of talks. Lot I was freaking busy. lot of talks. Lot I was freaking busy. But uh you know what? I'll tell you But uh you know what? I'll tell you But uh you know what? I'll tell you right now. right now. right now. Um Um Um uh uh uh Remember, you have to watch IoT Coffee Remember, you have to watch IoT Coffee Remember, you have to watch IoT Coffee Talk at your own risk. Mhm. You know? Talk at your own risk. Mhm. You know? Talk at your own risk. Mhm. You know? If you take it seriously, you'll have a If you take it seriously, you'll have a If you take it seriously, you'll have a big problem. You need to take out big problem. You need to take out big problem. You need to take out insurance. insurance. insurance. And And And um we're just here to have fun. um we're just here to have fun. um we're just here to have fun. And And And >> have to Do you have to listen to Jensen >> have to Do you have to listen to Jensen >> have to Do you have to listen to Jensen at your own risk? at your own risk? at your own risk? Yeah, you do, apparently. Yeah, you do, apparently. Yeah, you do, apparently. >> sure. Yeah, and um Yeah, and um what else do we say usually in our what else do we say usually in our what else do we say usually in our disclaimer? Yes, this is for disclaimer? Yes, this is for disclaimer? Yes, this is for uh uh uh >> entertainment purposes only. >> entertainment purposes only. >> entertainment purposes only. >> entertainment It's not even >> entertainment It's not even >> entertainment It's not even informational. It's just If you're not informational. It's just If you're not informational. It's just If you're not here to have fun, just here to have fun, just here to have fun, just >> be You might get bad information. >> be You might get bad information. >> be You might get bad information. If you're not careful, you may learn If you're not careful, you may learn If you're not careful, you may learn something. Here's my take on one of the something. Here's my take on one of the something. Here's my take on one of the things, you know, yeah, if you you sat things, you know, yeah, if you you sat things, you know, yeah, if you you sat there through his what, 2 and 1/2, there through his what, 2 and 1/2, there through his what, 2 and 1/2, almost 3-hour keynote, Jensen's deal.

almost 3-hour keynote, Jensen's deal. almost 3-hour keynote, Jensen's deal. One of the things he said Obviously, he One of the things he said Obviously, he One of the things he said Obviously, he says a lot of things, but one of them says a lot of things, but one of them says a lot of things, but one of them was just, you know, talking about, you was just, you know, talking about, you was just, you know, talking about, you know, when I came out here in 2016 with know, when I came out here in 2016 with know, when I came out here in 2016 with this chip and it was this powerful and this chip and it was this powerful and this chip and it was this powerful and today, you know, we've increased 40,000% today, you know, we've increased 40,000% today, you know, we've increased 40,000% or whatever, some insane number. or whatever, some insane number. or whatever, some insane number. >> Yeah, I was like 4 million or 40 million >> Yeah, I was like 4 million or 40 million >> Yeah, I was like 4 million or 40 million >> percent, you know, and and it's like >> percent, you know, and and it's like >> percent, you know, and and it's like But, then I sat back and I was like, But, then I sat back and I was like, But, then I sat back and I was like, well, he's standing on stage and the well, he's standing on stage and the well, he's standing on stage and the entire stage is just entire stage is just entire stage is just giant racks of servers going on forever. giant racks of servers going on forever. giant racks of servers going on forever. And that's what he meant by that And that's what he meant by that And that's what he meant by that increase. He didn't walk on stage on the increase. He didn't walk on stage on the increase. He didn't walk on stage on the to to this week and hold a chip saying, to to this week and hold a chip saying, to to this week and hold a chip saying, "This is 40 million times better." He "This is 40 million times better." He "This is 40 million times better." He just said, "If you buy all this just said, "If you buy all this just said, "If you buy all this Yeah. it's 40 million times better." Yeah. it's 40 million times better." Yeah. it's 40 million times better." >> Yeah, exactly. And I started And I you >> Yeah, exactly. And I started And I you >> Yeah, exactly. And I started And I you know, I started thinking and it's like, know, I started thinking and it's like, know, I started thinking and it's like, "What are the companies that can afford "What are the companies that can afford "What are the companies that can afford that thing? that thing? that thing? What is the 0.01% of the largest What is the 0.01% of the largest What is the 0.01% of the largest companies in the world that can afford companies in the world that can afford companies in the world that can afford that? And then so what are we that? And then so what are we that? And then so what are we what are we going to do for everybody what are we going to do for everybody what are we going to do for everybody else that wants this AI stuff, you else that wants this AI stuff, you else that wants this AI stuff, you know?" The AI grid.

know?" The AI grid. know?" The AI grid. I think you have to radically redesign I think you have to radically redesign I think you have to radically redesign the architecture of how AI works. And the architecture of how AI works. And the architecture of how AI works. And people might that might be I've been people might that might be I've been people might that might be I've been talking to a few companies that who are talking to a few companies that who are talking to a few companies that who are taking a taking a taking a neuromorphic kind of mammalian brain neuromorphic kind of mammalian brain neuromorphic kind of mammalian brain approach to AGI particularly. So, rather approach to AGI particularly. So, rather approach to AGI particularly. So, rather than you know, cuz if you can I was than you know, cuz if you can I was than you know, cuz if you can I was saying if you look at AI's state, it's saying if you look at AI's state, it's saying if you look at AI's state, it's it is the definition of what Satya it is the definition of what Satya it is the definition of what Satya Nadella has talked about cloud first Nadella has talked about cloud first Nadella has talked about cloud first development, isn't it? It's like, "I'm development, isn't it? It's like, "I'm development, isn't it? It's like, "I'm in the cloud. I've got unlimited in the cloud. I've got unlimited in the cloud. I've got unlimited resources. I can ingest any amount of resources. I can ingest any amount of resources. I can ingest any amount of data." You know, it then becomes am I data." You know, it then becomes am I data." You know, it then becomes am I that 0.1% of the companies that can that 0.1% of the companies that can that 0.1% of the companies that can afford to throw, you know, a billion afford to throw, you know, a billion afford to throw, you know, a billion dollars at it or not. Whereas the human dollars at it or not. Whereas the human dollars at it or not. Whereas the human brain, the animal brains function on brain, the animal brains function on brain, the animal brains function on much more constrained resources. Oh, much more constrained resources. Oh, much more constrained resources. Oh, yeah. yeah. yeah. They have a predefined kind of rule set. They have a predefined kind of rule set. They have a predefined kind of rule set. Yeah. And the constraint of time as Yeah. And the constraint of time as Yeah. And the constraint of time as well. You know, you've got to you have well. You know, you've got to you have well. You know, you've got to you have this this this amount of time to make a this this this amount of time to make a this this this amount of time to make a decision. You've got this amount of decision. You've got this amount of decision. You've got this amount of resource to make it. And you've got resource to make it. And you've got resource to make it. And you've got these pre-given, you know, conditions. these pre-given, you know, conditions. these pre-given, you know, conditions. Like, don't do this, it'll kill you. Like, don't do this, it'll kill you. Like, don't do this, it'll kill you. Don't do that, it'll you know, whatever. Don't do that, it'll you know, whatever. Don't do that, it'll you know, whatever. And and yet we are apparently And and yet we are apparently And and yet we are apparently intelligent and able to produce, you intelligent and able to produce, you intelligent and able to produce, you know, know, know, apparently That's not a guarantee.

That's not a guarantee. But it's really interesting. I mean, But it's really interesting. I mean, But it's really interesting. I mean, to your point, Rob, I think that's the to your point, Rob, I think that's the to your point, Rob, I think that's the thing. We we design we design AI, you thing. We we design we design AI, you thing. We we design we design AI, you know, logically, but in such a way that know, logically, but in such a way that know, logically, but in such a way that >> Yeah. the access to those tools at the >> Yeah. the access to those tools at the >> Yeah. the access to those tools at the most extreme level are most extreme level are most extreme level are Well, yeah. I mean, it's it's the Well, yeah. I mean, it's it's the Well, yeah. I mean, it's it's the you know, the IT workloads are always you know, the IT workloads are always you know, the IT workloads are always going to be in the cloud, but you know, going to be in the cloud, but you know, going to be in the cloud, but you know, of course I'm biased, but you know, of course I'm biased, but you know, of course I'm biased, but you know, there's no reason why and actually I was there's no reason why and actually I was there's no reason why and actually I was talking to the CEO of Dpex at um talking to the CEO of Dpex at um talking to the CEO of Dpex at um Embedded World last week, Lock Won Kim, Embedded World last week, Lock Won Kim, Embedded World last week, Lock Won Kim, and uh and uh and uh he's very passionate on this topic he's very passionate on this topic he's very passionate on this topic around, you know, more distributed AI around, you know, more distributed AI around, you know, more distributed AI infrastructure uh away from sort of infrastructure uh away from sort of infrastructure uh away from sort of these uh Yeah. Yeah. US-based clouds, these uh Yeah. Yeah. US-based clouds, these uh Yeah. Yeah. US-based clouds, basically, and how do you run, you know, basically, and how do you run, you know, basically, and how do you run, you know, AI um more locally Mhm. with more AI um more locally Mhm. with more AI um more locally Mhm. with more sovereignty. And uh it's inevitably sovereignty. And uh it's inevitably sovereignty. And uh it's inevitably heading in that direction. It's just a heading in that direction. It's just a heading in that direction. It's just a matter of Wow. matter of Wow. matter of Wow. >> And now, you look in Korea, it's like >> And now, you look in Korea, it's like >> And now, you look in Korea, it's like Furiosa, Rebellions, Dpex, Yeah. you Furiosa, Rebellions, Dpex, Yeah. you Furiosa, Rebellions, Dpex, Yeah. you know, SK Telecom. I mean, everyone in know, SK Telecom. I mean, everyone in know, SK Telecom. I mean, everyone in you know, multiply that by 100 you know, multiply that by 100 you know, multiply that by 100 countries, they're they're everyone's countries, they're they're everyone's countries, they're they're everyone's working on how to how to move AI into a working on how to how to move AI into a working on how to how to move AI into a more sovereign base. Mhm. Right.

more sovereign base. Mhm. Right. more sovereign base. Mhm. Right. >> Yeah, it's going to take time. It's >> Yeah, it's going to take time. It's >> Yeah, it's going to take time. It's going to take time. going to take time. going to take time. >> I like it like along with like Alister >> I like it like along with like Alister >> I like it like along with like Alister was talking about the brain, I did see was talking about the brain, I did see was talking about the brain, I did see this post from, you know, Peter this post from, you know, Peter this post from, you know, Peter Diamandis earlier Diamandis earlier Diamandis earlier and he basically he was like, "The human and he basically he was like, "The human and he basically he was like, "The human brain uses only 20 W of power Yeah. brain uses only 20 W of power Yeah. brain uses only 20 W of power Yeah. >> but performs one exaflop per operations >> but performs one exaflop per operations >> but performs one exaflop per operations per second. Today's top AI chips burn per second. Today's top AI chips burn per second. Today's top AI chips burn 700 W for one petaflop. So, we're still 700 W for one petaflop. So, we're still 700 W for one petaflop. So, we're still a thousand X less efficient than a thousand X less efficient than a thousand X less efficient than biology." It is the we're in the steam biology." It is the we're in the steam biology." It is the we're in the steam engine era of AI, right? It's engine era of AI, right? It's engine era of AI, right? It's >> Yeah. And then that works you know >> Yeah. And then that works you know >> Yeah. And then that works you know >> it and uh see the wheels turn. You're >> it and uh see the wheels turn. You're >> it and uh see the wheels turn. You're like, "Oh, this works." But Yeah. But like, "Oh, this works." But Yeah. But like, "Oh, this works." But Yeah. But but you know, it it needs to be but you know, it it needs to be but you know, it it needs to be completely re-architected, completely re-architected, completely re-architected, re-platformed, and you need a whole new re-platformed, and you need a whole new re-platformed, and you need a whole new technology base. You know, we're we're technology base. You know, we're we're technology base. You know, we're we're already hitting walls. Like what already hitting walls. Like what already hitting walls. Like what what Rob just mentioned. what Rob just mentioned. what Rob just mentioned. You know, You know, You know, we we've scaled out we we've scaled out we we've scaled out 4 million times since whatever 4 years 4 million times since whatever 4 years 4 million times since whatever 4 years ago ago ago or 5 years ago or whatever years ago. Um or 5 years ago or whatever years ago. Um or 5 years ago or whatever years ago. Um that's not that's not that's not you know, that's not scaling the density you know, that's not scaling the density you know, that's not scaling the density of computing the efficiency of compute, of computing the efficiency of compute, of computing the efficiency of compute, right? You're and I I said this 3 years right? You're and I I said this 3 years right? You're and I I said this 3 years ago because he he had all these scaling ago because he he had all these scaling ago because he he had all these scaling laws. I was talking to Dylan Patel laws. I was talking to Dylan Patel laws. I was talking to Dylan Patel back when he was like doing a back when he was like doing a back when he was like doing a newsletter.

newsletter. newsletter. I told him these scaling laws are I told him these scaling laws are You know, um he you are bound to Moore's You know, um he you are bound to Moore's law. You can't go optical thinking that law. You can't go optical thinking that law. You can't go optical thinking that you're somehow at a you're somehow at a you're somehow at a at processor level or processing level at processor level or processing level at processor level or processing level somehow somehow somehow um um um you know, divorcing yourself from you know, divorcing yourself from you know, divorcing yourself from silicon. You're not. You're on that road silicon. You're not. You're on that road silicon. You're not. You're on that road map. And um there's this conflation of map. And um there's this conflation of map. And um there's this conflation of the technology, the technology, the technology, the you know, component and then the the you know, component and then the the you know, component and then the system. And what Jensen's talking about system. And what Jensen's talking about system. And what Jensen's talking about is scaling at the system of system is scaling at the system of system is scaling at the system of system level. So, you know, he's really playing level. So, you know, he's really playing level. So, you know, he's really playing on the ignorance of the broader on the ignorance of the broader on the ignorance of the broader population who population who population who basically are you know, are those folks basically are you know, are those folks basically are you know, are those folks that you see at these crypto that you see at these crypto that you see at these crypto conferences, you know? I don't know. I conferences, you know? I don't know. I conferences, you know? I don't know. I mean, we should mean, we should mean, we should revisit those crypto conferences, but revisit those crypto conferences, but revisit those crypto conferences, but that's what GTC feels like now. I mean, that's what GTC feels like now. I mean, that's what GTC feels like now. I mean, investors are coming in. Cuz if it was investors are coming in. Cuz if it was investors are coming in. Cuz if it was like like like >> the new cryptos, the new Bitcoin.

>> the new cryptos, the new Bitcoin. >> the new cryptos, the new Bitcoin. >> Yeah. Cuz if it had been like Pat >> Yeah. Cuz if it had been like Pat >> Yeah. Cuz if it had been like Pat Gelsinger out there saying, "Well, here Gelsinger out there saying, "Well, here Gelsinger out there saying, "Well, here is the 286 or 386 running at 20 MHz. And is the 286 or 386 running at 20 MHz. And is the 286 or 386 running at 20 MHz. And then today, here is a you know, Core then today, here is a you know, Core then today, here is a you know, Core Ultra whatever and it's running at 4.5 Ultra whatever and it's running at 4.5 Ultra whatever and it's running at 4.5 GHz. GHz. GHz. And that is a however million percent And that is a however million percent And that is a however million percent increase in well, since the 80s, I increase in well, since the 80s, I increase in well, since the 80s, I guess, right? Yeah. And so when Jensen guess, right? Yeah. And so when Jensen guess, right? Yeah. And so when Jensen says, "Look at this increase." it's says, "Look at this increase." it's says, "Look at this increase." it's like, "Oh, well, you had to build buy like, "Oh, well, you had to build buy like, "Oh, well, you had to build buy this whole building full of stuff to get this whole building full of stuff to get this whole building full of stuff to get that increase, you know?" And people are that increase, you know?" And people are that increase, you know?" And people are like, "Oh." like, "Oh." like, "Oh." To what extent does does does do you To what extent does does does do you To what extent does does does do you collectively To what extent do we think collectively To what extent do we think collectively To what extent do we think that that quantum computing is is the that that quantum computing is is the that that quantum computing is is the solution? Cuz solution? Cuz solution? Cuz I I used to hear quantum computing and I I used to hear quantum computing and I I used to hear quantum computing and AI kind of thrown together. I don't see AI kind of thrown together. I don't see AI kind of thrown together. I don't see anyone actually anyone actually anyone actually combining those two concepts. I don't combining those two concepts. I don't combining those two concepts. I don't think I've seen a startup talking about think I've seen a startup talking about think I've seen a startup talking about I mean, that I I kind of learned that I mean, that I I kind of learned that I mean, that I I kind of learned that the hard way that the hard way that the hard way that >> I hear analysts talking about >> I hear analysts talking about >> I hear analysts talking about Yeah.

But they're But they're they're like pears and oranges and they're like pears and oranges and they're like pears and oranges and apples and Yeah. Exactly. And yet the apples and Yeah. Exactly. And yet the apples and Yeah. Exactly. And yet the people Actually, apples and potatoes is people Actually, apples and potatoes is people Actually, apples and potatoes is more Apples Yeah, cuz people cover more Apples Yeah, cuz people cover more Apples Yeah, cuz people cover quantum at IDC, they hate me cuz I'M quantum at IDC, they hate me cuz I'M quantum at IDC, they hate me cuz I'M LIKE, "YEAH, NO, I THINK IT'S GOING TO LIKE, "YEAH, NO, I THINK IT'S GOING TO LIKE, "YEAH, NO, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE AWESOME. I THINK it's going to be BE AWESOME. I THINK it's going to be BE AWESOME. I THINK it's going to be widely deployed in the 2040s." AND widely deployed in the 2040s." AND widely deployed in the 2040s." AND THEY'RE LIKE, THEY'RE LIKE, THEY'RE LIKE, "2040S?" I'M LIKE, "YEAH, THE 2040S." "2040S?" I'M LIKE, "YEAH, THE 2040S." "2040S?" I'M LIKE, "YEAH, THE 2040S." That's a long time. That's a long time. That's a long time. That's not what That's not what That's not what I IonQ is telling us. Yeah. Well, I IonQ is telling us. Yeah. Well, I IonQ is telling us. Yeah. Well, actually, IonQ will tell you that. actually, IonQ will tell you that. actually, IonQ will tell you that. Jensen will waffle on that, right? It It Jensen will waffle on that, right? It It Jensen will waffle on that, right? It It depending on the stock price of any of depending on the stock price of any of depending on the stock price of any of these quantum companies. Notice that he these quantum companies. Notice that he these quantum companies. Notice that he I don't know if Did he have a quantum I don't know if Did he have a quantum I don't know if Did he have a quantum day this year, which was like the most day this year, which was like the most day this year, which was like the most ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous thing I ever saw. It was the absolute thing I ever saw. It was the absolute thing I ever saw. It was the absolute waste of time. I remember when he did it waste of time. I remember when he did it waste of time. I remember when he did it last year or the year before and he's last year or the year before and he's last year or the year before and he's making fun of all the guys at making fun of all the guys at making fun of all the guys at >> Last year. He's like, "Can I run Excel >> Last year. He's like, "Can I run Excel >> Last year. He's like, "Can I run Excel on your quantum computer?" Yeah, but no, on your quantum computer?" Yeah, but no, on your quantum computer?" Yeah, but no, the laughable thing was he came in um the laughable thing was he came in um the laughable thing was he came in um trying to trying to trying to um um um you know, walk back his earlier comment you know, walk back his earlier comment you know, walk back his earlier comment that tanked a bunch of uh quantum that tanked a bunch of uh quantum that tanked a bunch of uh quantum stocks, stocks, stocks, right? And he said, "Well, you know, it right? And he said, "Well, you know, it right? And he said, "Well, you know, it could be like a year away." And then he could be like a year away." And then he could be like a year away." And then he brings all these people up on stage who brings all these people up on stage who brings all these people up on stage who were the founders were the founders were the founders and CEOs of these companies who all, you and CEOs of these companies who all, you and CEOs of these companies who all, you know, it's really about 30 years off.

know, it's really about 30 years off. know, it's really about 30 years off. So, you you know, So, you you know, So, you you know, Jensen's original comment that tanked Jensen's original comment that tanked Jensen's original comment that tanked everything was actually everything was actually everything was actually what these guys were probably telling what these guys were probably telling what these guys were probably telling Jensen. Jensen. Jensen. Right? And then he created this weird Right? And then he created this weird Right? And then he created this weird talk track that quantum and somehow talk track that quantum and somehow talk track that quantum and somehow accelerated computing are going to, accelerated computing are going to, accelerated computing are going to, um, you know, um, you know, um, you know, be be be Yeah, it's going to bring about Yeah, it's going to bring about Yeah, it's going to bring about commercial quantum commercial quantum commercial quantum in whatever 5 years. And that ended up in whatever 5 years. And that ended up in whatever 5 years. And that ended up not being You know, he spent like a not being You know, he spent like a not being You know, he spent like a whole day walking that back. That's not whole day walking that back. That's not whole day walking that back. That's not necessarily a bad necessarily a bad necessarily a bad It's obviously a bad theory. Like cuz It's obviously a bad theory. Like cuz It's obviously a bad theory. Like cuz they used the same talk track with, you they used the same talk track with, you they used the same talk track with, you know, robots kind of suck and then know, robots kind of suck and then know, robots kind of suck and then they're going to get better and it's they're going to get better and it's they're going to get better and it's like, "Oh, it's because humans are like, "Oh, it's because humans are like, "Oh, it's because humans are designing robots and we're not good designing robots and we're not good designing robots and we're not good enough." But when we hit AGI and AI enough." But when we hit AGI and AI enough." But when we hit AGI and AI helps us design the robots, then they're helps us design the robots, then they're helps us design the robots, then they're going to be, you know, doing kung fu. going to be, you know, doing kung fu. going to be, you know, doing kung fu. And so the same talk the same narrative And so the same talk the same narrative And so the same talk the same narrative is we're not smart enough individually is we're not smart enough individually is we're not smart enough individually to build quantum computers, but once we to build quantum computers, but once we to build quantum computers, but once we hit the singularity, that will help us hit the singularity, that will help us hit the singularity, that will help us build They'll solve all the problems build They'll solve all the problems build They'll solve all the problems that we can't solve. Well, I'll tell you that we can't solve. Well, I'll tell you that we can't solve. Well, I'll tell you this right now. Physical AI, this right now. Physical AI, this right now. Physical AI, this year is kind of a joke because it's this year is kind of a joke because it's this year is kind of a joke because it's actually remote control.

actually remote control. actually remote control. There's not very little AI about it. You There's not very little AI about it. You There's not very little AI about it. You know, it's funny, I stopped by the know, it's funny, I stopped by the know, it's funny, I stopped by the Anaconda booth and there's like this Anaconda booth and there's like this Anaconda booth and there's like this freaking like freaking like freaking like 7-ft humanoid robot like 7-ft humanoid robot like 7-ft humanoid robot like punching the air and doing like really punching the air and doing like really punching the air and doing like really dangerous stuff. And of course, there's dangerous stuff. And of course, there's dangerous stuff. And of course, there's a crowd within laughing at this thing. a crowd within laughing at this thing. a crowd within laughing at this thing. >> a >> a >> a ninja blade, you know, on it. Killer. Killer. I was like, "You I was like, "You I was like, "You have to Why Why it when I hear Anaconda have to Why Why it when I hear Anaconda have to Why Why it when I hear Anaconda I think of Sir Mix-A-Lot? I think of Sir Mix-A-Lot? I think of Sir Mix-A-Lot? You know. You know. You know. CUZ YOU LIVE IN SE- YOU USED TO LIVE in CUZ YOU LIVE IN SE- YOU USED TO LIVE in CUZ YOU LIVE IN SE- YOU USED TO LIVE in Seattle, dude. Remember Baby's Got Back? Seattle, dude. Remember Baby's Got Back? Seattle, dude. Remember Baby's Got Back? Oh, yeah. You can't You can't miss Sir Oh, yeah. You can't You can't miss Sir Oh, yeah. You can't You can't miss Sir Mix-A-Lot if you live in Seattle, dude. Mix-A-Lot if you live in Seattle, dude. Mix-A-Lot if you live in Seattle, dude. I don't know. I just hear Anaconda and I don't know. I just hear Anaconda and I don't know. I just hear Anaconda and IT'S JUST LIKE IT'S JUST LIKE IT'S JUST LIKE I ALWAYS I always think of Ice Cube and I ALWAYS I always think of Ice Cube and I ALWAYS I always think of Ice Cube and the movie Anaconda. Oh, right. Uh man, you know, but but the guy Uh man, you know, but but the guy Yeah, but but the guy was saying oh, Yeah, but but the guy was saying oh, Yeah, but but the guy was saying oh, yeah, it's that guy over there with the yeah, it's that guy over there with the yeah, it's that guy over there with the remote control. And I went, "Oh my god."

remote control. And I went, "Oh my god." remote control. And I went, "Oh my god." And then you go you see all these other And then you go you see all these other And then you go you see all these other demos. demos. demos. Guess what? These robots are programmed. Guess what? These robots are programmed. Guess what? These robots are programmed. Probably the only Probably the only Probably the only AI-ish AI-ish AI-ish thing that was uh physical AI-ish, let's thing that was uh physical AI-ish, let's thing that was uh physical AI-ish, let's say, demo was that um say, demo was that um say, demo was that um frozen little snowman dude. Uh I forgot frozen little snowman dude. Uh I forgot frozen little snowman dude. Uh I forgot what his name is. what his name is. what his name is. Olaf, yeah. Olaf, yeah. Olaf, yeah. That was That was kind of cool, but I That was That was kind of cool, but I That was That was kind of cool, but I mean, that's done by mean, that's done by mean, that's done by That Disney thing. And Disney has been That Disney thing. And Disney has been That Disney thing. And Disney has been doing this stuff for forever. doing this stuff for forever. doing this stuff for forever. >> Abraham Lincoln? I mean, he gave that >> Abraham Lincoln? I mean, he gave that >> Abraham Lincoln? I mean, he gave that whole Gettysburg address. That was whole Gettysburg address. That was whole Gettysburg address. That was physical AI, wasn't it? I don't know. physical AI, wasn't it? I don't know. physical AI, wasn't it? I don't know. That was a very basic form of physical That was a very basic form of physical That was a very basic form of physical AI, right? But it I mean, all of these AI, right? But it I mean, all of these AI, right? But it I mean, all of these things are uh for the most part things are uh for the most part things are uh for the most part programmed. And programmed. And programmed. And >> Sure. Although I would say the the >> Sure. Although I would say the the >> Sure. Although I would say the the robots that are in, you know, warehouses robots that are in, you know, warehouses robots that are in, you know, warehouses and things like that, those are that's and things like that, those are that's and things like that, those are that's real physical AI in terms of, you know, real physical AI in terms of, you know, real physical AI in terms of, you know, navigation and uh task completion and navigation and uh task completion and navigation and uh task completion and things like that. It's when you get into things like that. It's when you get into things like that. It's when you get into this humanoid laundry folding robot this humanoid laundry folding robot this humanoid laundry folding robot thing, which is thing, which is thing, which is still like a a sales pitch. Even I mean, still like a a sales pitch. Even I mean, still like a a sales pitch. Even I mean, even with the automation robots, I even with the automation robots, I even with the automation robots, I think, you know, think, you know, think, you know, banging on about this last week, I banging on about this last week, I banging on about this last week, I think, you know, if you look at the think, you know, if you look at the think, you know, if you look at the promise of AI and take fair and AI code promise of AI and take fair and AI code promise of AI and take fair and AI code and what's obvious, you can you can and what's obvious, you can you can and what's obvious, you can you can produce more code, post side files, do produce more code, post side files, do produce more code, post side files, do blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah, But the but the But the the framework But the but the But the the framework But the but the But the the framework that is necessary for these things to be that is necessary for these things to be that is necessary for these things to be by companies that have liabilities and by companies that have liabilities and by companies that have liabilities and customers and needs to deliver services customers and needs to deliver services customers and needs to deliver services don't exist. On the code generation don't exist. On the code generation don't exist. On the code generation side, you can't you can't build build a

side, you can't you can't build build a side, you can't you can't build build a software bill of materials. You can't software bill of materials. You can't software bill of materials. You can't You can't actually trace provenance. You You can't actually trace provenance. You You can't actually trace provenance. You can't protect your IP. And on physical can't protect your IP. And on physical can't protect your IP. And on physical AI, you have to segregate these robots AI, you have to segregate these robots AI, you have to segregate these robots into a separate area away from human into a separate area away from human into a separate area away from human beings because they cannot adequately beings because they cannot adequately beings because they cannot adequately yet detect the presence of a human or yet detect the presence of a human or yet detect the presence of a human or predict what that human being's going to predict what that human being's going to predict what that human being's going to do so that they don't get run over. And do so that they don't get run over. And do so that they don't get run over. And And so I think that you know I see a lot And so I think that you know I see a lot And so I think that you know I see a lot of activity in the software space, you of activity in the software space, you of activity in the software space, you know, kind of attack tackling these know, kind of attack tackling these know, kind of attack tackling these problems. These companies are all problems. These companies are all problems. These companies are all relatively early stage and it seems like relatively early stage and it seems like relatively early stage and it seems like we only kind of realized this was an we only kind of realized this was an we only kind of realized this was an issue a couple of years ago and starting issue a couple of years ago and starting issue a couple of years ago and starting to address it. But I think if you went to address it. But I think if you went to address it. But I think if you went into most enterprise customers and and into most enterprise customers and and into most enterprise customers and and sat down and said, "Okay, how do you use sat down and said, "Okay, how do you use sat down and said, "Okay, how do you use AI? How do you want to use physical AI? AI? How do you want to use physical AI? AI? How do you want to use physical AI? How do you want They would have a How do you want They would have a How do you want They would have a naughty list of possible but not many naughty list of possible but not many naughty list of possible but not many things that they could practically do things that they could practically do things that they could practically do without bankrupting their business in a without bankrupting their business in a without bankrupting their business in a lawsuit." lawsuit." lawsuit." >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that's a great point. That's a great point. Um a great point. That's a great point. Um a great point. That's a great point. Um By the way, By the way, By the way, there's some sad news today. You're not there's some sad news today. You're not there's some sad news today. You're not going to believe this cuz I thought this going to believe this cuz I thought this going to believe this cuz I thought this was impossible. Chuck Norris has passed was impossible. Chuck Norris has passed was impossible. Chuck Norris has passed away. Oh, no way. Your alter ego?

away. Oh, no way. Your alter ego? away. Oh, no way. Your alter ego? I didn't think he could die. I thought I I didn't think he could die. I thought I I didn't think he could die. I thought I thought he was thought he was thought he was >> think so either. Yeah. Oh my god. I >> think so either. Yeah. Oh my god. I >> think so either. Yeah. Oh my god. I mean, he was into my kids karate school. mean, he was into my kids karate school. mean, he was into my kids karate school. My kids school My kids school My kids school like was one of Actually, there were like was one of Actually, there were like was one of Actually, there were two. One got handed over to another and two. One got handed over to another and two. One got handed over to another and both of them were students of Chuck both of them were students of Chuck both of them were students of Chuck Norris. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, he I Norris. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, he I Norris. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, he I mean, he had to be a few years ago. I mean, he had to be a few years ago. I mean, he had to be a few years ago. I mean, mean, mean, at the time at the time at the time but I didn't You didn't want to say that but I didn't You didn't want to say that but I didn't You didn't want to say that to him cuz he could probably still rip to him cuz he could probably still rip to him cuz he could probably still rip you despising you. Yeah. you despising you. Yeah. you despising you. Yeah. Despising you. Despising you. Despising you. Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But you Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But you Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But you know, he's like he's like 90 years old know, he's like he's like 90 years old know, he's like he's like 90 years old or something, right? How old is he? He's or something, right? How old is he? He's or something, right? How old is he? He's up there. He's up there. Yeah. Right. I up there. He's up there. Yeah. Right. I up there. He's up there. Yeah. Right. I mean, he's like William Shatner. Isn't mean, he's like William Shatner. Isn't mean, he's like William Shatner. Isn't William Shatner like 100 years old? William Shatner like 100 years old? William Shatner like 100 years old? >> alive and he's in his 90s. Yeah. Yeah. >> alive and he's in his 90s. Yeah. Yeah. >> alive and he's in his 90s. Yeah. Yeah. And so now Shatner goes can join And so now Shatner goes can join And so now Shatner goes can join Bruce Lee and they can reenact, you Bruce Lee and they can reenact, you Bruce Lee and they can reenact, you know, like Enter the Dragon and all that know, like Enter the Dragon and all that know, like Enter the Dragon and all that stuff. They can kick each other kick stuff. They can kick each other kick stuff. They can kick each other kick each other's butts. Yeah. Yeah. each other's butts. Yeah. Yeah. each other's butts. Yeah. Yeah. And uh And uh And uh Wow, good times. There you go. Yeah. In Wow, good times. There you go. Yeah. In Wow, good times. There you go. Yeah. In the hall of in Valhalla. That's right.

the hall of in Valhalla. That's right. the hall of in Valhalla. That's right. Valhalla, brother. Valhalla. I'll see Valhalla, brother. Valhalla. I'll see Valhalla, brother. Valhalla. I'll see you in Valhalla. It'll be glorious. Yeah. It'll be glorious. Yeah. I hope you had a glorious death. I hope you had a glorious death. I hope you had a glorious death. I just I just wish they made more of I just I just wish they made more of I just I just wish they made more of that Chaos series with Jeff Goldblum. Do that Chaos series with Jeff Goldblum. Do that Chaos series with Jeff Goldblum. Do you remember that? That that whole you remember that? That that whole you remember that? That that whole Valhalla thing just reminds me of that. Valhalla thing just reminds me of that. Valhalla thing just reminds me of that. Did you watch that series? I did not. Did you watch that series? I did not. Did you watch that series? I did not. You didn't? You've got to watch it. They You didn't? You've got to watch it. They You didn't? You've got to watch it. They made one series. It's Jeff Goldblum is a made one series. It's Jeff Goldblum is a made one series. It's Jeff Goldblum is a Zeus, the king of the gods. You got to Zeus, the king of the gods. You got to Zeus, the king of the gods. You got to be kidding me. be kidding me. be kidding me. I can't imagine that. Oh, you should I can't imagine that. Oh, you should I can't imagine that. Oh, you should watch Yeah, that that's I mean, that watch Yeah, that that's I mean, that watch Yeah, that that's I mean, that description in and of itself is description in and of itself is description in and of itself is hilarious. hilarious. hilarious. Yeah, I I can already imagine that. Makes no sense. Makes no sense. Which is awesome. Didn't expect to hear Which is awesome. Didn't expect to hear Which is awesome. Didn't expect to hear Zeus say, "Life will find a way." Zeus say, "Life will find a way." Zeus say, "Life will find a way." Yeah. But Yeah. But Yeah. But Yeah, but you know, the thing that Yeah, but you know, the thing that Yeah, but you know, the thing that really tripped me out was like the name really tripped me out was like the name really tripped me out was like the name the Nemo claw. Nemo claw? You know, and it's funny because You know, and it's funny because I'll tell you right now, going to RSAC I'll tell you right now, going to RSAC I'll tell you right now, going to RSAC all people are talking about right now all people are talking about right now all people are talking about right now is the exponential is the exponential is the exponential exploitation of these technologies by exploitation of these technologies by exploitation of these technologies by threat actors.

threat actors. threat actors. So So So the this script has been flipped. the this script has been flipped. the this script has been flipped. You know, dramatically, you know, 180 You know, dramatically, you know, 180 You know, dramatically, you know, 180 since ChatGPT first came out. And the since ChatGPT first came out. And the since ChatGPT first came out. And the agentic agentic agentic stuff stuff stuff especially with the swarm stuff man, especially with the swarm stuff man, especially with the swarm stuff man, right now, um there are reports that are right now, um there are reports that are right now, um there are reports that are coming out talking about how the coming out talking about how the coming out talking about how the fidelity quality fidelity quality fidelity quality um um um of the threats, the volume, is just of the threats, the volume, is just of the threats, the volume, is just spiking. And so, one of the biggest spiking. And so, one of the biggest spiking. And so, one of the biggest anxieties SOCs are going to have SOCs anxieties SOCs are going to have SOCs anxieties SOCs are going to have SOCs you know, operators are going to have is you know, operators are going to have is you know, operators are going to have is just just just you know, um you know, um you know, um they're going to have to they're going to have to they're going to have to compartmentalize everything. I mean, compartmentalize everything. I mean, compartmentalize everything. I mean, literally, we've been joking on literally, we've been joking on literally, we've been joking on it's actually hasn't been a joke, it's it's actually hasn't been a joke, it's it's actually hasn't been a joke, it's more of a forecast or prediction, more of a forecast or prediction, more of a forecast or prediction, Battlestar Galactica. Battlestar Galactica. Battlestar Galactica. You know, somebody actually used You know, somebody actually used You know, somebody actually used Battlestar Galactica and tagged me. See? See? >> It's all >> It's all >> It's all related to uh related to uh related to uh >> Somebody listened to you one time.

>> Somebody listened to you one time. >> Somebody listened to you one time. >> No, somebody Yeah, somebody has I Well, >> No, somebody Yeah, somebody has I Well, >> No, somebody Yeah, somebody has I Well, the only time I ever really mentioned the only time I ever really mentioned the only time I ever really mentioned Battlestar Galactica is here. Battlestar Galactica is here. Battlestar Galactica is here. Cuz we coined it on the show. There you Cuz we coined it on the show. There you Cuz we coined it on the show. There you go. go. go. But, they But, they But, they remember it. Yeah, yeah. Um but, man, remember it. Yeah, yeah. Um but, man, remember it. Yeah, yeah. Um but, man, I'm telling you I'm telling you I'm telling you And um And um And um you know, if you think about what Nemo you know, if you think about what Nemo you know, if you think about what Nemo Cla Cla is with the open shell, Cla Cla is with the open shell, Cla Cla is with the open shell, that's that's that's you know, extreme isolation or trying to you know, extreme isolation or trying to you know, extreme isolation or trying to isolate these agents. isolate these agents. isolate these agents. And someone made a comment And someone made a comment And someone made a comment yesterday on a call asking, "Well, if yesterday on a call asking, "Well, if yesterday on a call asking, "Well, if you constrain these agents to that you constrain these agents to that you constrain these agents to that degree, degree, degree, um um um how useful are they? how useful are they? how useful are they? How much can they actually do?" How much can they actually do?" How much can they actually do?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, we've been talking Which, you know, we've been talking Which, you know, we've been talking about that forever, too. So, about that forever, too. So, about that forever, too. So, this this just shows you how late to the this this just shows you how late to the this this just shows you how late to the game everybody is in the thinking about game everybody is in the thinking about game everybody is in the thinking about this stuff. And the agentic stuff, I'm this stuff. And the agentic stuff, I'm this stuff. And the agentic stuff, I'm I think is just I think is just I think is just going to create an a massive, you know, going to create an a massive, you know, going to create an a massive, you know, COVID moment for AI, I think. People are COVID moment for AI, I think. People are COVID moment for AI, I think. People are going to freak out. This is I mean, going to freak out. This is I mean, going to freak out. This is I mean, literally, this is like COVID, right?

literally, this is like COVID, right? literally, this is like COVID, right? Because now you have um you know, agents Because now you have um you know, agents Because now you have um you know, agents that might have alignment problems. that might have alignment problems. that might have alignment problems. There There are no tools to really There There are no tools to really There There are no tools to really instill instill instill you know, um safe you know, um safe you know, um safe um guardrails um guardrails um guardrails and um into these things. Right. and um into these things. Right. and um into these things. Right. There isn't. And but you have There isn't. And but you have There isn't. And but you have companies like Nvidia now promoting it companies like Nvidia now promoting it companies like Nvidia now promoting it like this stuff is ready. And one of the like this stuff is ready. And one of the like this stuff is ready. And one of the points I made to points I made to points I made to one of my clients was like, "Man, Open one of my clients was like, "Man, Open one of my clients was like, "Man, Open Claw just came out like freaking what? 2 Claw just came out like freaking what? 2 Claw just came out like freaking what? 2 months ago? 3 months ago? months ago? 3 months ago? months ago? 3 months ago? And then you're going to go up on stage And then you're going to go up on stage And then you're going to go up on stage and say this is enterprise-grade? and say this is enterprise-grade? and say this is enterprise-grade? I I will tell you right now, it's not. I I will tell you right now, it's not. I I will tell you right now, it's not. It's not and it's not because I'm just It's not and it's not because I'm just It's not and it's not because I'm just saying it for the sake of it. I talk to saying it for the sake of it. I talk to saying it for the sake of it. I talk to people. people. people. Don't you Don't you Don't you Don't you think that some of that is a Don't you think that some of that is a Don't you think that some of that is a >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. Don't you think some of that's kind of Don't you think some of that's kind of Don't you think some of that's kind of the the trap we all fall into, I think the the trap we all fall into, I think the the trap we all fall into, I think with I often fall into technology, which with I often fall into technology, which with I often fall into technology, which is, you know, we move fast, break stuff, is, you know, we move fast, break stuff, is, you know, we move fast, break stuff, you better fix it in the car or whatever you better fix it in the car or whatever you better fix it in the car or whatever it is, which completely ignores the it is, which completely ignores the it is, which completely ignores the reality of the physical world. I mean, reality of the physical world. I mean, reality of the physical world. I mean, that take um take robotic surgery, you that take um take robotic surgery, you that take um take robotic surgery, you know, we talk about the the that the know, we talk about the the that the know, we talk about the the that the opportunity Hey. of AI-driven opportunity Hey. of AI-driven opportunity Hey. of AI-driven device that can isolate and treat a device that can isolate and treat a device that can isolate and treat a cancer cell with a I mean, it's an cancer cell with a I mean, it's an cancer cell with a I mean, it's an amazing technology, but when are you amazing technology, but when are you amazing technology, but when are you going to see that deployed in a hospital going to see that deployed in a hospital going to see that deployed in a hospital in the US given the litigious nature of

in the US given the litigious nature of in the US given the litigious nature of you know, of of of the the entirety of you know, of of of the the entirety of you know, of of of the the entirety of the medical system in the US. Like, a the medical system in the US. Like, a the medical system in the US. Like, a friend of mine is an anesthetist. She friend of mine is an anesthetist. She friend of mine is an anesthetist. She carries so much insurance that she said carries so much insurance that she said carries so much insurance that she said to me, "Look, if I ever have a to me, "Look, if I ever have a to me, "Look, if I ever have a malpractice suit, I'm done for. I can't malpractice suit, I'm done for. I can't malpractice suit, I'm done for. I can't Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. It's No, no, no. It's No, no, no. It's It's a which is 40% of her kind of It's a which is 40% of her kind of It's a which is 40% of her kind of salary at the moment to to to cover her salary at the moment to to to cover her salary at the moment to to to cover her insurance in the year. insurance in the year. insurance in the year. >> Oh, wow. And so you have we got to And I >> Oh, wow. And so you have we got to And I >> Oh, wow. And so you have we got to And I think you're right, we've ignored or we think you're right, we've ignored or we think you're right, we've ignored or we have ignored the realities of the have ignored the realities of the have ignored the realities of the physical world and designing physical world and designing physical world and designing and what you're talking about them as and what you're talking about them as and what you're talking about them as being, you know, enterprise grade. What being, you know, enterprise grade. What being, you know, enterprise grade. What when we don't really Clearly there's not when we don't really Clearly there's not when we don't really Clearly there's not an understanding of what enterprise an understanding of what enterprise an understanding of what enterprise grade means. Right. No, and and and and grade means. Right. No, and and and and grade means. Right. No, and and and and and you when you think about it, you and you when you think about it, you and you when you think about it, you have more robust frameworks for AI that have more robust frameworks for AI that have more robust frameworks for AI that have been geared toward enterprise that have been geared toward enterprise that have been geared toward enterprise that have not proven to be safe. have not proven to be safe. have not proven to be safe. And that's why you have the adoption And that's why you have the adoption And that's why you have the adoption issue. So these guys keep beating their issue. So these guys keep beating their issue. So these guys keep beating their heads up against the wall, you know, heads up against the wall, you know, heads up against the wall, you know, um um um regurgitating this trope that it's all regurgitating this trope that it's all regurgitating this trope that it's all about data. It's like, "No, it's about about data. It's like, "No, it's about about data. It's like, "No, it's about security, guys." You know, you you security, guys." You know, you you security, guys." You know, you you haven't bothered to look at the haven't bothered to look at the haven't bothered to look at the architecture, you don't understand architecture, you don't understand architecture, you don't understand properly the technology, and you're properly the technology, and you're properly the technology, and you're projecting projecting projecting a delusion a delusion a delusion to the end markets. This is why you to the end markets. This is why you to the end markets. This is why you fail, you know, and this is all fail, you know, and this is all fail, you know, and this is all predictable. Just what Yoda said.

predictable. Just what Yoda said. predictable. Just what Yoda said. Yeah, it is. This is why you fail. This Yeah, it is. This is why you fail. This Yeah, it is. This is why you fail. This is why you are a failure. This is why is why you are a failure. This is why is why you are a failure. This is why you fail, young Skywalker. Yeah. I wish Bill was on here because he had I wish Bill was on here because he had Did you see his um I don't know if it's Did you see his um I don't know if it's Did you see his um I don't know if it's his shirt? his shirt? his shirt? Uh Uh Uh I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD, that's awesome. Wow. Okay, I did see that's awesome. Wow. Okay, I did see that's awesome. Wow. Okay, I did see something Yoda on it. something Yoda on it. something Yoda on it. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's good. I saw something funny today. Genius, I saw something funny today. Genius, I saw something funny today. Genius, man. man. man. It is genius. So speaking of open claw It is genius. So speaking of open claw It is genius. So speaking of open claw and humor, and humor, and humor, uh our friend Darren, he's been on here uh our friend Darren, he's been on here uh our friend Darren, he's been on here before, and I saw him this morning at before, and I saw him this morning at before, and I saw him this morning at the little startup thing I go to, the little startup thing I go to, the little startup thing I go to, and and and you know how people talked in the past you know how people talked in the past you know how people talked in the past like climbing the ladder in the like climbing the ladder in the like climbing the ladder in the corporate world to get to the top and corporate world to get to the top and corporate world to get to the top and how many people did you step on to make how many people did you step on to make how many people did you step on to make it to the top?

it to the top? it to the top? His new deal is I'm going to open claw His new deal is I'm going to open claw His new deal is I'm going to open claw my way to the top. my way to the top. my way to the top. There you go. There you go. There you go. Nice play on words. Nice play on words. Nice play on words. >> I'm going to open claw. And so I can >> I'm going to open claw. And so I can >> I'm going to open claw. And so I can imagine that picture of just clawing imagine that picture of just clawing imagine that picture of just clawing past people as you make your way to the past people as you make your way to the past people as you make your way to the C-suite. C-suite. C-suite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, what happens when Well, you know, what happens when Well, you know, what happens when everyone does that? When are we going to everyone does that? When are we going to everyone does that? When are we going to have the first open claw CEO? have the first open claw CEO? have the first open claw CEO? Uh we probably already do. Uh we probably already do. Uh we probably already do. It's just It's just It's just It it it It it it It it it at the moment has a human interface. You at the moment has a human interface. You at the moment has a human interface. You still need that human interface, right? still need that human interface, right? still need that human interface, right? You need something to manipulate. I You need something to manipulate. I You need something to manipulate. I mean, cuz think about it. That's what mean, cuz think about it. That's what mean, cuz think about it. That's what happened I think that you you got a happened I think that you you got a happened I think that you you got a sense of that with that whole Moloch sense of that with that whole Moloch sense of that with that whole Moloch thing that happened, right? They're thing that happened, right? They're thing that happened, right? They're hiring humans. It's going around hiring hiring humans. It's going around hiring hiring humans. It's going around hiring humans and using money to manipulate humans and using money to manipulate humans and using money to manipulate people. Right. Right. They hire the people. Right. Right. They hire the people. Right. Right. They hire the humans to manipulate the physical world humans to manipulate the physical world humans to manipulate the physical world on behalf of the AI. on behalf of the AI. on behalf of the AI. >> So, think about it. This thing trades >> So, think about it. This thing trades >> So, think about it. This thing trades crypto, goes and takes the money, and crypto, goes and takes the money, and crypto, goes and takes the money, and then goes and just hires people and to then goes and just hires people and to then goes and just hires people and to do whatever the hell it wants it do whatever the hell it wants it do whatever the hell it wants it that it collectively wants people to do.

that it collectively wants people to do. that it collectively wants people to do. And it doesn't matter that And it doesn't matter that And it doesn't matter that there's people in the background there's people in the background there's people in the background injecting prompt injecting and injecting prompt injecting and injecting prompt injecting and influencing the swarm. influencing the swarm. influencing the swarm. It it is what it is. Do you know what It it is what it is. Do you know what It it is what it is. Do you know what I'm saying? It it can go and exact in I'm saying? It it can go and exact in I'm saying? It it can go and exact in the physical world in reality the physical world in reality the physical world in reality what what what what what it's concocting in its, you what what it's concocting in its, you what what it's concocting in its, you know, collective AI brain. And that's know, collective AI brain. And that's know, collective AI brain. And that's what's scary. It's not that AI is great. what's scary. It's not that AI is great. what's scary. It's not that AI is great. It's how It's how It's how terrifying some of these applications terrifying some of these applications terrifying some of these applications can be. Right? And you know, can be. Right? And you know, can be. Right? And you know, props to IBM for doing a lot of research props to IBM for doing a lot of research props to IBM for doing a lot of research on swarm intelligence way back on swarm intelligence way back on swarm intelligence way back in the day. Um in the day. Um in the day. Um They're And it's funny. They're And it's funny. They're And it's funny. IBM was always this IBM was always this IBM was always this pioneer, but then they always get caught pioneer, but then they always get caught pioneer, but then they always get caught up in the hype cycle and can never up in the hype cycle and can never up in the hype cycle and can never really commercial safely or really commercial safely or really commercial safely or you know, in a compelling way you know, in a compelling way you know, in a compelling way commercialize a lot of the great commercialize a lot of the great commercialize a lot of the great technologies and research that they've technologies and research that they've technologies and research that they've done. Um but you know, you read some of done. Um but you know, you read some of done. Um but you know, you read some of the papers and you just go, "Oh my god.

the papers and you just go, "Oh my god. the papers and you just go, "Oh my god. If we get to this point, um If we get to this point, um If we get to this point, um all these things everyone's talking all these things everyone's talking all these things everyone's talking about, orchestration, management, about, orchestration, management, about, orchestration, management, observability, and being able to um you observability, and being able to um you observability, and being able to um you know, govern these swarms, know, govern these swarms, know, govern these swarms, it becomes a huge question, right? For it becomes a huge question, right? For it becomes a huge question, right? For any application. But then now with this any application. But then now with this any application. But then now with this open cloud thing, it it's it's insanity. open cloud thing, it it's it's insanity. open cloud thing, it it's it's insanity. Uh there are there are no tools for Uh there are there are no tools for Uh there are there are no tools for managing these things. It doesn't matter managing these things. It doesn't matter managing these things. It doesn't matter what people say. what people say. what people say. Doesn't matter what people say. Doesn't matter what people say. Doesn't matter what people say. And when I I listened in on a open cloud And when I I listened in on a open cloud And when I I listened in on a open cloud session, session, session, these jokers get up and they're from the these jokers get up and they're from the these jokers get up and they're from the big companies, you know, big companies, you know, big companies, you know, all the big AI companies. These jokers, all the big AI companies. These jokers, all the big AI companies. These jokers, okay, get up and one side of their mouth okay, get up and one side of their mouth okay, get up and one side of their mouth talk about how talk about how talk about how um it this stuff is unsafe, we have no um it this stuff is unsafe, we have no um it this stuff is unsafe, we have no ability to truly make these things safe. ability to truly make these things safe. ability to truly make these things safe. And then out the other, they talk about And then out the other, they talk about And then out the other, they talk about how we need to innovate and we want to how we need to innovate and we want to how we need to innovate and we want to promote and everyone should use it and promote and everyone should use it and promote and everyone should use it and enterprise it it's going to maybe enterprise it it's going to maybe enterprise it it's going to maybe revolutionize industry.

revolutionize industry. revolutionize industry. That's like That's like That's like hypocrisy, right? It's irresponsible. hypocrisy, right? It's irresponsible. hypocrisy, right? It's irresponsible. That's like That's like That's like that is the definition of irresponsible that is the definition of irresponsible that is the definition of irresponsible AI. AI. AI. I'm going to try to get open cloud to be I'm going to try to get open cloud to be I'm going to try to get open cloud to be on next week's show on my behalf. He'll be a big crustacean like He'll be a big crustacean like crustacean avatar. crustacean avatar. crustacean avatar. Yes. Well, remember what Remember one Yes. Well, remember what Remember one Yes. Well, remember what Remember one time when he came on and he had his time when he came on and he had his time when he came on and he had his avatar one of them avatar one of them avatar one of them show. That was funny. Yeah. show. That was funny. Yeah. show. That was funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did didn't Mark post something about Did didn't Mark post something about Did didn't Mark post something about how much money how much money how much money Zuckerberg wasted on the metaverse? 80 Zuckerberg wasted on the metaverse? 80 Zuckerberg wasted on the metaverse? 80 billion. 80 billion. billion. 80 billion. billion. 80 billion. >> god. That's the number I saw. >> god. That's the number I saw. >> god. That's the number I saw. Wow. You know what? It just goes to show Wow. You know what? It just goes to show Wow. You know what? It just goes to show you. A billion here, a billion there it you. A billion here, a billion there it you. A billion here, a billion there it adds up. You know, it turns into real adds up. You know, it turns into real adds up. You know, it turns into real money. Yeah. I remember right after money. Yeah. I remember right after money. Yeah. I remember right after Remember right after Zuckerberg went all Remember right after Zuckerberg went all Remember right after Zuckerberg went all in on the metaverse and changed the name in on the metaverse and changed the name in on the metaverse and changed the name of the company and it was right before of the company and it was right before of the company and it was right before MWC a few years ago MWC a few years ago MWC a few years ago and then we all show up there and like and then we all show up there and like and then we all show up there and like every company there had hurriedly every company there had hurriedly every company there had hurriedly changed the signs on their booths on changed the signs on their booths on changed the signs on their booths on their stands. You know, like Accenture's their stands. You know, like Accenture's their stands. You know, like Accenture's like Accenture metaverse.

That's how you know they're all just That's how you know they're all just FULL OF WHAT I WHAT DID I WHAT I WHAT DID I I um I um I um Yeah, over some beers I was Yeah, over some beers I was Yeah, over some beers I was talking to a friend of mine at GTC and I talking to a friend of mine at GTC and I talking to a friend of mine at GTC and I told him, "Yeah, it's like if you're the told him, "Yeah, it's like if you're the told him, "Yeah, it's like if you're the master" master" master" analyst. analyst. analyst. I told him, "Yeah, if you're a master of I told him, "Yeah, if you're a master of I told him, "Yeah, if you're a master of the marketing the marketing the marketing um um um hype hype hype uh you're the master of nothing. And uh you're the master of nothing. And uh you're the master of nothing. And there's a lot of analysts who do that. there's a lot of analysts who do that. there's a lot of analysts who do that. They'll just take the press release. They'll just take the press release. They'll just take the press release. They won't ask any critical questions. They won't ask any critical questions. They won't ask any critical questions. There's nothing thoughtful in There's nothing thoughtful in There's nothing thoughtful in their engagement with any of these their engagement with any of these their engagement with any of these companies. And all they end up just companies. And all they end up just companies. And all they end up just regurgitating stuff, right? And then regurgitating stuff, right? And then regurgitating stuff, right? And then you're master of nothing. You're just you're master of nothing. You're just you're master of nothing. You're just master of somebody else's PR and that master of somebody else's PR and that master of somebody else's PR and that it's it it's ridiculous, right? And um it's it it's ridiculous, right? And um it's it it's ridiculous, right? And um you know, when you go you know, when you go you know, when you go >> of getting that company to still pay >> of getting that company to still pay >> of getting that company to still pay them money them money them money to say nice things about them.

to say nice things about them. to say nice things about them. That's what they're the master of. It's That's what they're the master of. It's That's what they're the master of. It's like, oh, I don't want to bash this like, oh, I don't want to bash this like, oh, I don't want to bash this company too badly, so I'm just going to company too badly, so I'm just going to company too badly, so I'm just going to change a few words here. change a few words here. change a few words here. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Cuz there's that aspect to this whole Cuz there's that aspect to this whole Cuz there's that aspect to this whole game. game. game. Not to be jaded or anything. You know. Not to be jaded or anything. You know. Not to be jaded or anything. You know. Yeah. Yeah. No, there there absolutely Yeah. Yeah. No, there there absolutely Yeah. Yeah. No, there there absolutely absolutely is and that I think that's absolutely is and that I think that's absolutely is and that I think that's the that's the stuff that diminishes the the that's the stuff that diminishes the the that's the stuff that diminishes the the um the um the um profession, if you will. profession, if you will. profession, if you will. Yeah. Um because there is a lot of value Yeah. Um because there is a lot of value Yeah. Um because there is a lot of value in just telling it like it is, right? I in just telling it like it is, right? I in just telling it like it is, right? I mean, there is there are valuable mean, there is there are valuable mean, there is there are valuable audiences for that kind of insight. audiences for that kind of insight. audiences for that kind of insight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And uh it gets under buying by people And uh it gets under buying by people And uh it gets under buying by people who just um who just um who just um are, you know, are, you know, are, you know, and don't and don't and don't and don't have robust analysis. I feel and don't have robust analysis. I feel and don't have robust analysis. I feel bad about some people we know who do say bad about some people we know who do say bad about some people we know who do say it like it is accurately it like it is accurately it like it is accurately and they're not getting any money from and they're not getting any money from and they're not getting any money from any of these companies because any of these companies because any of these companies because they're telling the truth too much. they're telling the truth too much. they're telling the truth too much. Yeah. You know, they didn't get the memo Yeah. You know, they didn't get the memo Yeah. You know, they didn't get the memo about telling the truth. And so about telling the truth. And so about telling the truth. And so it's kind of weird deal. It's like it's kind of weird deal. It's like it's kind of weird deal. It's like they're saying the right stuff. They're they're saying the right stuff. They're they're saying the right stuff. They're they're they nailed it and yet they're they're they nailed it and yet they're they're they nailed it and yet they're living in a cave now, sadly.

living in a cave now, sadly. living in a cave now, sadly. So. So. So. Well, Well, Well, that that's where you become a founder. that that's where you become a founder. that that's where you become a founder. Yes. Yes. Yes. There you go. Yeah, you're in the wrong There you go. Yeah, you're in the wrong There you go. Yeah, you're in the wrong business. Right. business. Right. business. Right. There are a lot of I mean, like at least There are a lot of I mean, like at least There are a lot of I mean, like at least from the slice of the world I see from the slice of the world I see from the slice of the world I see through Moment it, there are a lot of through Moment it, there are a lot of through Moment it, there are a lot of companies and lot of founders who have companies and lot of founders who have companies and lot of founders who have realized that these huge gaps exist and realized that these huge gaps exist and realized that these huge gaps exist and you know, they're they're building you know, they're they're building you know, they're they're building solutions. The the challenge that they solutions. The the challenge that they solutions. The the challenge that they will have, I think, in some respects is will have, I think, in some respects is will have, I think, in some respects is again, it's the it's the I'm a I'm a again, it's the it's the I'm a I'm a again, it's the it's the I'm a I'm a industrial company, you know, industrial company, you know, industrial company, you know, medium-size, large-size company, you're medium-size, large-size company, you're medium-size, large-size company, you're a 10-person software startup in the a 10-person software startup in the a 10-person software startup in the Valley, Valley, Valley, am I going to bet my life on you? And am I going to bet my life on you? And am I going to bet my life on you? And so, the the cycle of these startups so, the the cycle of these startups so, the the cycle of these startups being acquired and then becoming part of being acquired and then becoming part of being acquired and then becoming part of a major provider, you know, that needs a major provider, you know, that needs a major provider, you know, that needs to happen, but if if if the potential to happen, but if if if the potential to happen, but if if if the potential acquirers are still in cloud-cuckoo land acquirers are still in cloud-cuckoo land acquirers are still in cloud-cuckoo land pretending that the problem doesn't pretending that the problem doesn't pretending that the problem doesn't exist, you know, is that just a is that exist, you know, is that just a is that exist, you know, is that just a is that just a public face or is that really just a public face or is that really just a public face or is that really really kind of what they believe that really kind of what they believe that really kind of what they believe that there isn't a problem? I mean, I tend to there isn't a problem? I mean, I tend to there isn't a problem? I mean, I tend to think it's more the public face and that think it's more the public face and that think it's more the public face and that there will be some common sense and they there will be some common sense and they there will be some common sense and they will make some of these acquisitions and will make some of these acquisitions and will make some of these acquisitions and they will, you know, these tools will they will, you know, these tools will they will, you know, these tools will become valuable. But we're but the the become valuable. But we're but the the become valuable. But we're but the the the the risk, I think, is that AI is the the risk, I think, is that AI is the the risk, I think, is that AI is moving so quickly, so is the rush moving so quickly, so is the rush moving so quickly, so is the rush towards disillusionment. I mean, that's towards disillusionment. I mean, that's towards disillusionment. I mean, that's the Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. after that, the Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. after that, the Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. after that, "Oh, you told me it was going to be here "Oh, you told me it was going to be here "Oh, you told me it was going to be here next month."

next month." next month." It's not here. Well, there's there It's not here. Well, there's there It's not here. Well, there's there there's the tech, there's the hype, there's the tech, there's the hype, there's the tech, there's the hype, there's the business. Software and there's the business. Software and there's the business. Software and hardware is all moving faster than hardware is all moving faster than hardware is all moving faster than the development typical development and the development typical development and the development typical development and deployment cycles of any of these deployment cycles of any of these deployment cycles of any of these products. And so, it's almost like products. And so, it's almost like products. And so, it's almost like you're we're getting overtaken by the you're we're getting overtaken by the you're we're getting overtaken by the this wave and it's it's kind of messing this wave and it's it's kind of messing this wave and it's it's kind of messing up all the development cycles of all up all the development cycles of all up all the development cycles of all these products. So, people are kind of these products. So, people are kind of these products. So, people are kind of tripping over themselves and pushing out tripping over themselves and pushing out tripping over themselves and pushing out code way too early and doing all this code way too early and doing all this code way too early and doing all this stuff. So, it's interesting like when stuff. So, it's interesting like when stuff. So, it's interesting like when the when the pace of the change of the the when the pace of the change of the the when the pace of the change of the tech becomes almost too fast, tech becomes almost too fast, tech becomes almost too fast, you know, it becomes a real negative. you know, it becomes a real negative. you know, it becomes a real negative. Yeah, but there's like a religious Yeah, but there's like a religious Yeah, but there's like a religious fervor fervor fervor um um um that espouses this idea of that espouses this idea of that espouses this idea of you know, break things and run away, you know, break things and run away, you know, break things and run away, right? right? right? Um this whole Silicon Valley mentality. Um this whole Silicon Valley mentality. Um this whole Silicon Valley mentality. And I had a And I had a And I had a I had an interesting conversation about I had an interesting conversation about I had an interesting conversation about excellence and how that is completely excellence and how that is completely excellence and how that is completely the principles of excellence the principles of excellence the principles of excellence are completely are completely are completely absent almost absent almost absent almost completely absent in Silicon Valley.

completely absent in Silicon Valley. completely absent in Silicon Valley. That mentality is That mentality is That mentality is not compatible with not compatible with not compatible with break things fast and run away. break things fast and run away. break things fast and run away. >> No, it's not not fast and that's that's >> No, it's not not fast and that's that's >> No, it's not not fast and that's that's if speed becomes the paramount then you if speed becomes the paramount then you if speed becomes the paramount then you know everything else suffers, right? So know everything else suffers, right? So know everything else suffers, right? So But excellence survives. But excellence survives. But excellence survives. And it usually is the signal above And it usually is the signal above And it usually is the signal above the noise of a bunch of you know you the noise of a bunch of you know you the noise of a bunch of you know you know minimal you know MVPs, right? In know minimal you know MVPs, right? In know minimal you know MVPs, right? In other words other words other words uh uh uh pseudo crap. So pseudo crap. So pseudo crap. So um um um that but right now everything is so that but right now everything is so that but right now everything is so skewed on the crap side of stuff versus skewed on the crap side of stuff versus skewed on the crap side of stuff versus like quality. I think Silicon Valley is like quality. I think Silicon Valley is like quality. I think Silicon Valley is in in big trouble. This is going to be in in big trouble. This is going to be in in big trouble. This is going to be the last hype cycle the last hype cycle the last hype cycle for Silicon Valley if this crap does not for Silicon Valley if this crap does not for Silicon Valley if this crap does not work out. Silicon Valley is I think work out. Silicon Valley is I think work out. Silicon Valley is I think >> bold prediction. I think hype cycles for >> bold prediction. I think hype cycles for >> bold prediction. I think hype cycles for Silicon Valley will be around for Silicon Valley will be around for Silicon Valley will be around for thousands of years. thousands of years. thousands of years. >> SVB SVB we have to remember SVB was >> SVB SVB we have to remember SVB was >> SVB SVB we have to remember SVB was almost the downfall of Silicon Valley. almost the downfall of Silicon Valley. almost the downfall of Silicon Valley. >> No, that's true. Yeah, no.

>> No, that's true. Yeah, no. >> No, that's true. Yeah, no. The government bailed them out. Right. The government bailed them out. Right. The government bailed them out. Right. >> Right? They bailed them out and they >> Right? They bailed them out and they >> Right? They bailed them out and they basically took all that toxicity and basically took all that toxicity and basically took all that toxicity and then loaded it up on the regional banks, then loaded it up on the regional banks, then loaded it up on the regional banks, the little guys. the little guys. the little guys. Mhm. We have to remember Mhm. We have to remember Mhm. We have to remember Oh yeah, all that stuff. It's the little Oh yeah, all that stuff. It's the little Oh yeah, all that stuff. It's the little guys that paid for the eff up. Right. guys that paid for the eff up. Right. guys that paid for the eff up. Right. Small banks it's a tough business to be Small banks it's a tough business to be Small banks it's a tough business to be a small bank and that's why there's all a small bank and that's why there's all a small bank and that's why there's all this consolidation and everyone's moving this consolidation and everyone's moving this consolidation and everyone's moving money to Chase and other things like money to Chase and other things like money to Chase and other things like that. They almost put yeah. But you know that. They almost put yeah. But you know that. They almost put yeah. But you know what what what you can't spell excellence without the you can't spell excellence without the you can't spell excellence without the letters MVP. What the PEOPLE ALWAYS PEOPLE ALWAYS DO What the PEOPLE ALWAYS PEOPLE ALWAYS DO THAT. YOU CAN'T SPELL BLAH BLAH blah THAT. YOU CAN'T SPELL BLAH BLAH blah THAT. YOU CAN'T SPELL BLAH BLAH blah without the without the without the three letters that are in their product three letters that are in their product three letters that are in their product or whatever. There's no I in everybody There's no I in everybody or something like that, right? Right. or something like that, right? Right. or something like that, right? Right. Right. Right. Right. Well, you know, what I love is when they Well, you know, what I love is when they Well, you know, what I love is when they say that there is no particular letter say that there is no particular letter say that there is no particular letter in some in some in some con- a concept or principle and then con- a concept or principle and then con- a concept or principle and then there is. Oh, okay. Wait a minute.

there is. Oh, okay. Wait a minute. there is. Oh, okay. Wait a minute. You're right. Okay. You're right. Okay. You're right. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. By the way, speaking of Yeah. Right. By the way, speaking of Yeah. Right. By the way, speaking of hype cycles, I've been digging into a hype cycles, I've been digging into a hype cycles, I've been digging into a lot of these kind of automation lot of these kind of automation lot of these kind of automation platforms like Zapier and Make and N8N platforms like Zapier and Make and N8N platforms like Zapier and Make and N8N and all that stuff trying to do some and all that stuff trying to do some and all that stuff trying to do some interesting things. interesting things. interesting things. And man, this stuff is really primitive. And man, this stuff is really primitive. And man, this stuff is really primitive. So primitive. You know, when you get So primitive. You know, when you get So primitive. You know, when you get into it the APIs and things are so into it the APIs and things are so into it the APIs and things are so limited. It's It's like limited. It's It's like limited. It's It's like it's I was kind of disappointed. I'm it's I was kind of disappointed. I'm it's I was kind of disappointed. I'm like, there's got to be somebody out like, there's got to be somebody out like, there's got to be somebody out there with platforms that I can use to there with platforms that I can use to there with platforms that I can use to build agents that do actual useful build agents that do actual useful build agents that do actual useful things. And um things. And um things. And um >> It's If then like if this then that. So >> It's If then like if this then that. So >> It's If then like if this then that. So basic. I was basic. I was basic. I was No, but you know what? Think about it. No, but you know what? Think about it. No, but you know what? Think about it. The younger I mean, this is what I've The younger I mean, this is what I've The younger I mean, this is what I've noticed through my noticed through my noticed through my my career. And I know you guys have seen my career. And I know you guys have seen my career. And I know you guys have seen it as well. it as well. it as well. Uh you have the younger generations that Uh you have the younger generations that Uh you have the younger generations that think that they are freaking invented think that they are freaking invented think that they are freaking invented something. But it was like it's either something. But it was like it's either something. But it was like it's either stuff that already exists. And we we see stuff that already exists. And we we see stuff that already exists. And we we see this with like, you know, more seasoned this with like, you know, more seasoned this with like, you know, more seasoned folks, too. They didn't think like, folks, too. They didn't think like, folks, too. They didn't think like, let's say, these middleware concepts let's say, these middleware concepts let's say, these middleware concepts don't exist. Like, no, this you don't exist. Like, no, this you don't exist. Like, no, this you know, we were doing that 20 years ago, know, we were doing that 20 years ago, know, we were doing that 20 years ago, man. You're trying to do this now?

man. You're trying to do this now? man. You're trying to do this now? They They're just not aware, right? And They They're just not aware, right? And They They're just not aware, right? And you know, um Alister, you know, you you know, um Alister, you know, you you know, um Alister, you know, you probably know in the startup world, you probably know in the startup world, you probably know in the startup world, you get all you get pitched all these ideas get all you get pitched all these ideas get all you get pitched all these ideas and and and and you know, these founders will walk and you know, these founders will walk and you know, these founders will walk up to you with concepts that you up to you with concepts that you up to you with concepts that you probably worked on and your team probably worked on and your team probably worked on and your team >> Right. have worked on long time ago. >> Right. have worked on long time ago. >> Right. have worked on long time ago. These guys just don't know that they These guys just don't know that they These guys just don't know that they exist. A doorbell WITH A VIDEO CAMERA? DID YOU GUYS WATCH SHARK TANK? They had DID YOU GUYS WATCH SHARK TANK? They had one on the other night. It was like It one on the other night. It was like It one on the other night. It was like It was like a tool that like corded a was like a tool that like corded a was like a tool that like corded a banana and you could put like Nutella in banana and you could put like Nutella in banana and you could put like Nutella in the banana. the banana. the banana. That was like their thing. This is where That was like their thing. This is where That was like their thing. This is where we've come to. we've come to. we've come to. >> What? >> What? >> What? I've got I mean that that the thing that I've got I mean that that the thing that I've got I mean that that the thing that you see quite a lot and I'm not I hate you see quite a lot and I'm not I hate you see quite a lot and I'm not I hate to generalize, but you do see still It's to generalize, but you do see still It's to generalize, but you do see still It's not so much that people don't that that not so much that people don't that that not so much that people don't that that that that you know, oh well, I've that that you know, oh well, I've that that you know, oh well, I've invented this thing and built by with a invented this thing and built by with a invented this thing and built by with a camera etc. It's more that that um camera etc. It's more that that um camera etc. It's more that that um people have really diagnosed interesting people have really diagnosed interesting people have really diagnosed interesting problems and they've developed problems and they've developed problems and they've developed conceptual answers for that problem, but conceptual answers for that problem, but conceptual answers for that problem, but they're they don't know how to affect they're they don't know how to affect they're they don't know how to affect that. They don't know how to Yeah, that. They don't know how to Yeah, that. They don't know how to Yeah, exactly.

exactly. exactly. Go to market channels. Go to market channels. Go to market channels. >> great. Sales, all that stuff. >> great. Sales, all that stuff. >> great. Sales, all that stuff. >> Fantastic slide deck. Yeah, yeah. No, >> Fantastic slide deck. Yeah, yeah. No, >> Fantastic slide deck. Yeah, yeah. No, it's it's But but it's like how Okay, it's it's But but it's like how Okay, it's it's But but it's like how Okay, what are you going to do next week? And what are you going to do next week? And what are you going to do next week? And the week after that and the week after the week after that and the week after the week after that and the week after that. that. that. >> No, it's But you know, that separates >> No, it's But you know, that separates >> No, it's But you know, that separates the good founders from the ones that are the good founders from the ones that are the good founders from the ones that are will probably fail and try again and will probably fail and try again and will probably fail and try again and learn and keep at it, you know, and that learn and keep at it, you know, and that learn and keep at it, you know, and that separates the wheat from the chaff. But separates the wheat from the chaff. But separates the wheat from the chaff. But I mean, I think that's I mean, I think that's I mean, I think that's Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Well, no, I was going to say I think Well, no, I was going to say I think Well, no, I was going to say I think it's There's some founders out there and it's There's some founders out there and it's There's some founders out there and I'm sure you've met them that that have I'm sure you've met them that that have I'm sure you've met them that that have that kind of holistic view of a business that kind of holistic view of a business that kind of holistic view of a business that it's not just the idea, it's the that it's not just the idea, it's the that it's not just the idea, it's the execution. Yeah, yeah. execution. Yeah, yeah. execution. Yeah, yeah. >> And they differentiate themselves. I'm >> And they differentiate themselves. I'm >> And they differentiate themselves. I'm sure people are on the investor side of sure people are on the investor side of sure people are on the investor side of the table, they're like, okay, these the table, they're like, okay, these the table, they're like, okay, these people actually know what they're people actually know what they're people actually know what they're talking about and they Other folks come talking about and they Other folks come talking about and they Other folks come in and that that's just the law of the in and that that's just the law of the in and that that's just the law of the jungle, right, in this startup world jungle, right, in this startup world jungle, right, in this startup world where where where maybe they get that lesson. I had a maybe they get that lesson. I had a maybe they get that lesson. I had a colleague who colleague who colleague who sent me a deck and asked for some sent me a deck and asked for some sent me a deck and asked for some feedback on it and I gave him some feedback on it and I gave him some feedback on it and I gave him some pretty direct feedback. Like, hey, pretty direct feedback. Like, hey, pretty direct feedback. Like, hey, this thing is missing like 90% of the this thing is missing like 90% of the this thing is missing like 90% of the you need in here.

you need in here. you need in here. Yeah. And it was a great idea and I'm Yeah. And it was a great idea and I'm Yeah. And it was a great idea and I'm just like, you know, better I tell you just like, you know, better I tell you just like, you know, better I tell you than you get in front of these. He had a than you get in front of these. He had a than you get in front of these. He had a big meeting coming up. I said, you don't big meeting coming up. I said, you don't big meeting coming up. I said, you don't want to go in there with this thing cuz want to go in there with this thing cuz want to go in there with this thing cuz it's going to chew you up. So, you know, it's going to chew you up. So, you know, it's going to chew you up. So, you know, that's part of the cycle and that's that's part of the cycle and that's that's part of the cycle and that's what's exciting about working with a lot what's exciting about working with a lot what's exciting about working with a lot of startups is that they they learn that of startups is that they they learn that of startups is that they they learn that stuff. I met a guy in Nuremberg. He's stuff. I met a guy in Nuremberg. He's stuff. I met a guy in Nuremberg. He's like 22 years old and like 22 years old and like 22 years old and he's we had this big dinner party in he's we had this big dinner party in he's we had this big dinner party in Nuremberg and it was awesome and he was Nuremberg and it was awesome and he was Nuremberg and it was awesome and he was like, "Yeah, I never had a job. This is like, "Yeah, I never had a job. This is like, "Yeah, I never had a job. This is my first job and we've invented this my first job and we've invented this my first job and we've invented this thing." It was a pretty like rich thing." It was a pretty like rich thing." It was a pretty like rich technical like us technical like us technical like us problem they were solving. problem they were solving. problem they were solving. And but you know, he was just scraping And but you know, he was just scraping And but you know, he was just scraping the the beginning. He's like and he and the the beginning. He's like and he and the the beginning. He's like and he and good news he was self-aware. He's like, good news he was self-aware. He's like, good news he was self-aware. He's like, "I realize I don't really know what I'm "I realize I don't really know what I'm "I realize I don't really know what I'm doing right here, but doing right here, but doing right here, but you know, we built this cool thing and you know, we built this cool thing and you know, we built this cool thing and we're looking for folks to help us we're looking for folks to help us we're looking for folks to help us figure out the rest of it." So so that's figure out the rest of it." So so that's figure out the rest of it." So so that's just like the nature of the beast, I just like the nature of the beast, I just like the nature of the beast, I think. I don't think that's a I think think. I don't think that's a I think think. I don't think that's a I think that's going to be there that's going to be there that's going to be there forever. That that behavior. That's just forever. That that behavior. That's just forever. That that behavior. That's just that's that's part part part of the that's that's part part part of the that's that's part part part of the human human mold mold bug.

human human mold mold bug. human human mold mold bug. Exactly. You need that you need that Exactly. You need that you need that Exactly. You need that you need that enthusiasm and you need naivety. Yeah, enthusiasm and you need naivety. Yeah, enthusiasm and you need naivety. Yeah, they don't know what's not possible so they don't know what's not possible so they don't know what's not possible so they go for it and you know, one out of they go for it and you know, one out of they go for it and you know, one out of 100 get it right. So good. 100 get it right. So good. 100 get it right. So good. Yeah, we we don't bet on the other 99. Yeah, we we don't bet on the other 99. Yeah, we we don't bet on the other 99. That's all. We didn't know that there That's all. We didn't know that there That's all. We didn't know that there was a rule that said we couldn't figure was a rule that said we couldn't figure was a rule that said we couldn't figure out the answer to this so we just out the answer to this so we just out the answer to this so we just figured out the answer to this. It's figured out the answer to this. It's figured out the answer to this. It's like like like Excellent. You're right. You don't want Excellent. You're right. You don't want Excellent. You're right. You don't want the guy to go into the pitch and and the guy to go into the pitch and and the guy to go into the pitch and and they're like, "What's a pain point? Why they're like, "What's a pain point? Why they're like, "What's a pain point? Why do I Why would I care about that?" do I Why would I care about that?" do I Why would I care about that?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but you know, um Yeah, but you know, um Yeah, but you know, um I I I tell a lot of startups, just go I I I tell a lot of startups, just go I I I tell a lot of startups, just go and freaking do a project. Um do it like and freaking do a project. Um do it like and freaking do a project. Um do it like Bill Pugh. Bill Pugh. Bill Pugh. You know, um go if you do have an idea, You know, um go if you do have an idea, You know, um go if you do have an idea, find a client, make a consulting find a client, make a consulting find a client, make a consulting business out of it for the moment, solve business out of it for the moment, solve business out of it for the moment, solve the problem, prove it, you know, um go the problem, prove it, you know, um go the problem, prove it, you know, um go through the process of figuring out, you through the process of figuring out, you through the process of figuring out, you know, know, know, how you can secure the IP for it. And go how you can secure the IP for it. And go how you can secure the IP for it. And go old school. Build a business. Then that old school. Build a business. Then that old school. Build a business. Then that that's the thing that bothers me about that's the thing that bothers me about that's the thing that bothers me about the startup the startup the startup culture and the VC culture is that it culture and the VC culture is that it culture and the VC culture is that it fosters this fosters this fosters this fundraising fixation which that you fundraising fixation which that you fundraising fixation which that you know, the know, the know, the venture venture venture stuff should be about building a stuff should be about building a stuff should be about building a business and it's not about founders business and it's not about founders business and it's not about founders raising raising raising funding.

funding. funding. And man, I'm And man, I'm And man, I'm this is the thing that stuns me. I get this is the thing that stuns me. I get this is the thing that stuns me. I get in conversations with grown ass people in conversations with grown ass people in conversations with grown ass people that don't know the difference between that don't know the difference between that don't know the difference between revenue revenue revenue and funds. They think funds, oh he they raised a They think funds, oh he they raised a billion dollars. That's That's investment funds going and that's like investment funds going and that's like investment funds going and that's like cash coming in it has nothing to there's cash coming in it has nothing to there's cash coming in it has nothing to there's no business there. no business there. no business there. >> for equity. >> for equity. >> for equity. >> Don't conflate, yeah, the revenue with a >> Don't conflate, yeah, the revenue with a >> Don't conflate, yeah, the revenue with a VC giving some company a freaking money. VC giving some company a freaking money. VC giving some company a freaking money. Sure. You know, you haven't closed the Sure. You know, you haven't closed the Sure. You know, you haven't closed the loop, but there's grown ass people that loop, but there's grown ass people that loop, but there's grown ass people that don't know the difference. Like some don't know the difference. Like some don't know the difference. Like some people don't know what um what, you people don't know what um what, you people don't know what um what, you know, corporate taxes get taxed on. They know, corporate taxes get taxed on. They know, corporate taxes get taxed on. They think it gets taxed on revenue. think it gets taxed on revenue. think it gets taxed on revenue. So that that that and that's how they So that that that and that's how they So that that that and that's how they have this whole stance about we have this whole stance about we have this whole stance about we shouldn't be shouldn't be shouldn't be you know, taxing corporations because you know, taxing corporations because you know, taxing corporations because then it'll shrink their business. I'm then it'll shrink their business. I'm then it'll shrink their business. I'm like, no. like, no. like, no. Taxes apply after they've made all the Taxes apply after they've made all the Taxes apply after they've made all the money, paid pretty much everyone.

money, paid pretty much everyone. money, paid pretty much everyone. You know, so Pete Pete's talking about You know, so Pete Pete's talking about You know, so Pete Pete's talking about >> grown ass people don't know. Pete's >> grown ass people don't know. Pete's >> grown ass people don't know. Pete's talking about giving advice, you know, talking about giving advice, you know, talking about giving advice, you know, someone someone someone as I'm unpacking books and stuff since as I'm unpacking books and stuff since as I'm unpacking books and stuff since moving down here, I found an old book moving down here, I found an old book moving down here, I found an old book that's from the '90s and my first that's from the '90s and my first that's from the '90s and my first startup that I did with my buddy Darren, startup that I did with my buddy Darren, startup that I did with my buddy Darren, it was a mobile device management it was a mobile device management it was a mobile device management company. It was before I joined company. It was before I joined company. It was before I joined Microsoft. I remember having this book Microsoft. I remember having this book Microsoft. I remember having this book and I remember it's like, okay, the and I remember it's like, okay, the and I remember it's like, okay, the seven questions that they're going to seven questions that they're going to seven questions that they're going to ask, you know, and and this is really ask, you know, and and this is really ask, you know, and and this is really basic. What is your product? basic. What is your product? basic. What is your product? Who is the customer? Who is the customer? Who is the customer? Who will sell it? Who will sell it? Who will sell it? How many people will buy it? How many people will buy it? How many people will buy it? How much will it cost? You know, and all How much will it cost? You know, and all How much will it cost? You know, and all of this. How much will you charge? It's of this. How much will you charge? It's of this. How much will you charge? It's it's funny, you know, and you've seen a it's funny, you know, and you've seen a it's funny, you know, and you've seen a million deck million deck million deck and out there, you know, when will you and out there, you know, when will you and out there, you know, when will you break even? Market research. It's really break even? Market research. It's really break even? Market research. It's really funny, you know, I feel like I've funny, you know, I feel like I've funny, you know, I feel like I've downloaded every template of pitch deck downloaded every template of pitch deck downloaded every template of pitch deck ever created. ever created. ever created. >> Basics. Well, they ask all those >> Basics. Well, they ask all those >> Basics. Well, they ask all those questions on Shark Tank, too, so that's questions on Shark Tank, too, so that's questions on Shark Tank, too, so that's another way to get educated.

another way to get educated. another way to get educated. >> Yeah, it's like, you know, what's the >> Yeah, it's like, you know, what's the >> Yeah, it's like, you know, what's the pain point? How are they solving that pain point? How are they solving that pain point? How are they solving that pain today? How are you going to solve pain today? How are you going to solve pain today? How are you going to solve it? Why will it be better? Oh my god, it? Why will it be better? Oh my god, it? Why will it be better? Oh my god, you sound so smart, man. Yeah, really? you sound so smart, man. Yeah, really? you sound so smart, man. Yeah, really? Well, you just It's not intelligence. Well, you just It's not intelligence. Well, you just It's not intelligence. It's like you've just seen you've been It's like you've just seen you've been It's like you've just seen you've been involved in this so many times that you involved in this so many times that you involved in this so many times that you just know all the standard stuff, you just know all the standard stuff, you just know all the standard stuff, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's surprising how know? Yeah. Yeah. It's surprising how know? Yeah. Yeah. It's surprising how often you don't get a straight answer to often you don't get a straight answer to often you don't get a straight answer to those questions. those questions. those questions. >> Sure. Don't I mean, particularly the >> Sure. Don't I mean, particularly the >> Sure. Don't I mean, particularly the whose problem is it? How much is it whose problem is it? How much is it whose problem is it? How much is it worth to them? How do they buy things? worth to them? How do they buy things? worth to them? How do they buy things? How do you fit into that chain It's a How do you fit into that chain It's a How do you fit into that chain It's a lot of it is the lot of it is the lot of it is the market, You know, are you going to go market, You know, are you going to go market, You know, are you going to go and sell to that end customer who has and sell to that end customer who has and sell to that end customer who has the problem that derive from which they the problem that derive from which they the problem that derive from which they can derive value they sold it? No, no, can derive value they sold it? No, no, can derive value they sold it? No, no, you're not. Okay, so who does and how you're not. Okay, so who does and how you're not. Okay, so who does and how are you going to design a product that are you going to design a product that are you going to design a product that actually provides an economic incentive actually provides an economic incentive actually provides an economic incentive for the guys in the middle to actually for the guys in the middle to actually for the guys in the middle to actually take it to the end customer and sell it. take it to the end customer and sell it. take it to the end customer and sell it. It's like, It's like, It's like, but the end customer really needs this.

but the end customer really needs this. but the end customer really needs this. It's like, yeah, but We need more Russ It's like, yeah, but We need more Russ It's like, yeah, but We need more Russ Hannemans. That's what I think. Hannemans. That's what I think. Hannemans. That's what I think. >> Yeah, you got to figure out how to Those >> Yeah, you got to figure out how to Those >> Yeah, you got to figure out how to Those Those are kind of I mean, they're not Those are kind of I mean, they're not Those are kind of I mean, they're not uncomplicated questions, really. I mean, uncomplicated questions, really. I mean, uncomplicated questions, really. I mean, and I understand why, you know, the and I understand why, you know, the and I understand why, you know, the focus is on the hard problem, you know, focus is on the hard problem, you know, focus is on the hard problem, you know, solving the hard because if you don't solving the hard because if you don't solving the hard because if you don't have a product that solves a hard have a product that solves a hard have a product that solves a hard problem, then, you know, what's the problem, then, you know, what's the problem, then, you know, what's the point? point? point? But, you got to have the other stuff, But, you got to have the other stuff, But, you got to have the other stuff, too. You got to have um Yeah. And then too. You got to have um Yeah. And then too. You got to have um Yeah. And then you figure that out by building a you figure that out by building a you figure that out by building a business, like you said, John. Build a business, like you said, John. Build a business, like you said, John. Build a real business and then take that product real business and then take that product real business and then take that product and turn it into code, and turn it into code, and turn it into code, you know? Yeah. And then you go and you know? Yeah. And then you go and you know? Yeah. And then you go and productize it, then you build a productize it, then you build a productize it, then you build a go-to-market around that, and then you go-to-market around that, and then you go-to-market around that, and then you have a business. But, yeah, I mean, have a business. But, yeah, I mean, have a business. But, yeah, I mean, I think we had this conversation at MWC I think we had this conversation at MWC I think we had this conversation at MWC like 3 years ago with Ray. like 3 years ago with Ray. like 3 years ago with Ray. Um Um Um Ray Aussie. Ray Aussie. Ray Aussie. Uh exactly that, the identity thing. Uh exactly that, the identity thing. Uh exactly that, the identity thing. Remember? Um that was and on IoT coffee Remember? Um that was and on IoT coffee Remember? Um that was and on IoT coffee talk, we were talking about that. One of talk, we were talking about that. One of talk, we were talking about that. One of the biggest challenges for a lot that a the biggest challenges for a lot that a the biggest challenges for a lot that a lot of the IoT players face is really lot of the IoT players face is really lot of the IoT players face is really understanding where they fit and how understanding where they fit and how understanding where they fit and how what is their identity in the grand what is their identity in the grand what is their identity in the grand scheme of an ecosystem or value chain.

scheme of an ecosystem or value chain. scheme of an ecosystem or value chain. And you know, and so the questions can And you know, and so the questions can And you know, and so the questions can be very simple. The answer be very simple. The answer be very simple. The answer can be really tough to arrive at, at can be really tough to arrive at, at can be really tough to arrive at, at least the proper one. And so, this is least the proper one. And so, this is least the proper one. And so, this is why we see so we've seen and continue to why we see so we've seen and continue to why we see so we've seen and continue to see so many companies see so many companies see so many companies just really confuse themselves. And now, just really confuse themselves. And now, just really confuse themselves. And now, in the AI space, it's it's probably even in the AI space, it's it's probably even in the AI space, it's it's probably even worse. worse. worse. And a great opportunity to for IoT And a great opportunity to for IoT And a great opportunity to for IoT people to like look at this stuff and be people to like look at this stuff and be people to like look at this stuff and be entertained and maybe reflect back on entertained and maybe reflect back on entertained and maybe reflect back on how the previous how the previous how the previous IoT cycle was, but hype cycle was. But, IoT cycle was, but hype cycle was. But, IoT cycle was, but hype cycle was. But, yeah, being able to to arrive at a yeah, being able to to arrive at a yeah, being able to to arrive at a and a clear and a clear and a clear um identity, one that positions you to um identity, one that positions you to um identity, one that positions you to you know, align the organization, your you know, align the organization, your you know, align the organization, your strategy strategy strategy to be a winning one. And this is um to be a winning one. And this is um to be a winning one. And this is um a conversation that I I had with um a conversation that I I had with um a conversation that I I had with um um the folks at um the folks at um the folks at the the the Help me out guys here, the smart antenna Help me out guys here, the smart antenna Help me out guys here, the smart antenna guys.

guys. guys. Uh Uh Uh no, no. no, no. no, no. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um Um Um and um and um and um yeah, we had great conversations about yeah, we had great conversations about yeah, we had great conversations about that long time ago. that long time ago. that long time ago. And And And but you're hitting on something that's but you're hitting on something that's but you're hitting on something that's really important. And really important. And really important. And at some point, you have to fit into a at some point, you have to fit into a at some point, you have to fit into a solution. And if you're not the And solution. And if you're not the And solution. And if you're not the And you're not at the end market, you're not at the end market, you're not at the end market, know what your role is. Otherwise, you know what your role is. Otherwise, you know what your role is. Otherwise, you you see these people doing components you see these people doing components you see these people doing components saying, "Hey, we're going to saying, "Hey, we're going to saying, "Hey, we're going to revolutionize revolutionize revolutionize XYZ end market." Like, "No, you're You XYZ end market." Like, "No, you're You XYZ end market." Like, "No, you're You you create like a sensor, dude." you create like a sensor, dude." you create like a sensor, dude." And we we made that Embrace that And we we made that Embrace that And we we made that Embrace that identity. Huh? We made that fundamental identity. Huh? We made that fundamental identity. Huh? We made that fundamental mistake, you know, in the early days of mistake, you know, in the early days of mistake, you know, in the early days of IoT platforms. I know you know, IoT platforms. I know you know, IoT platforms. I know you know, certainly I did. The the the you're certainly I did. The the the you're certainly I did. The the the you're going to design this platform and then going to design this platform and then going to design this platform and then enterprise customers are going to be enterprise customers are going to be enterprise customers are going to be able to build their IoT solutions. And able to build their IoT solutions. And able to build their IoT solutions. And And that And I came from a consulting And that And I came from a consulting And that And I came from a consulting background immediately before thinking background immediately before thinking background immediately before thinking that, "Oh, you know, if we if we could that, "Oh, you know, if we if we could that, "Oh, you know, if we if we could get away with the millions of dollars get away with the millions of dollars get away with the millions of dollars they have to pay consultants to build they have to pay consultants to build they have to pay consultants to build the the custom solution by this plat- the the custom solution by this plat- the the custom solution by this plat- And the problem was that those And the problem was that those And the problem was that those enterprise customers that there wasn't a enterprise customers that there wasn't a enterprise customers that there wasn't a connection between a cloud platform and connection between a cloud platform and connection between a cloud platform and those enterprise customers. There wasn't those enterprise customers. There wasn't those enterprise customers. There wasn't a develop- There wasn't a developer base a develop- There wasn't a developer base a develop- There wasn't a developer base in those enterprise customers. And in those enterprise customers. And in those enterprise customers. And actually the people in the middle that actually the people in the middle that actually the people in the middle that the notion of a platform that made it the notion of a platform that made it the notion of a platform that made it easier for customers to build IoT easier for customers to build IoT easier for customers to build IoT was antithetical to their business model was antithetical to their business model was antithetical to their business model because as a systems integrator, I don't because as a systems integrator, I don't because as a systems integrator, I don't want it to be easier for you. I want it want it to be easier for you. I want it want it to be easier for you. I want it to be hard cuz then you need to pay me a to be hard cuz then you need to pay me a to be hard cuz then you need to pay me a load of money. And the harder it is and load of money. And the harder it is and load of money. And the harder it is and the the harder it stays, you know, then

the the harder it stays, you know, then the the harder it stays, you know, then then you're going to need me next year then you're going to need me next year then you're going to need me next year and the year after and the year after and the year after and the year after and the year after and the year after that and I'm going to be here forever that and I'm going to be here forever that and I'm going to be here forever making a ton of cash. And it the fact making a ton of cash. And it the fact making a ton of cash. And it the fact that the very notion and the core that the very notion and the core that the very notion and the core concept clashed fundamentally with the concept clashed fundamentally with the concept clashed fundamentally with the interests of the channel, I think was in interests of the channel, I think was in interests of the channel, I think was in part at least why none of that Yeah. part at least why none of that Yeah. part at least why none of that Yeah. Well, good anyway. Well, good anyway. Well, good anyway. A little PSA for uh A little PSA for uh A little PSA for uh we're having a startup pitch contest we're having a startup pitch contest we're having a startup pitch contest next week at EGI San Diego. Yeah. So, if next week at EGI San Diego. Yeah. So, if next week at EGI San Diego. Yeah. So, if people are in there in the area and want people are in there in the area and want people are in there in the area and want to see and actually Hans Alister is to see and actually Hans Alister is to see and actually Hans Alister is Yeah, he is. I'm going to Yeah, he is. I'm going to Yeah, he is. I'm going to >> moderating a pitch contest. So, if you >> moderating a pitch contest. So, if you >> moderating a pitch contest. So, if you want to see startups in the wild, they want to see startups in the wild, they want to see startups in the wild, they will uh Is that Which day? will uh Is that Which day? will uh Is that Which day? It's on I think it's on the 25th, I It's on I think it's on the 25th, I It's on I think it's on the 25th, I think. I have to double-check the think. I have to double-check the think. I have to double-check the session. 24th through the 26th, but he's session. 24th through the 26th, but he's session. 24th through the 26th, but he's doing a startup pitch contest doing a startup pitch contest doing a startup pitch contest at the end of one of the days. And so, at the end of one of the days. And so, at the end of one of the days. And so, we're going to get a bunch of startups we're going to get a bunch of startups we're going to get a bunch of startups up there up there up there battling it out and pitching their battling it out and pitching their battling it out and pitching their stuff, so people want to see that. stuff, so people want to see that. stuff, so people want to see that. >> Awesome. That'll be fun. >> Awesome. That'll be fun. >> Awesome. That'll be fun. >> Live. That's Oh my god. I'm so bummed >> Live. That's Oh my god. I'm so bummed >> Live. That's Oh my god. I'm so bummed I'm going to miss out on that stuff. But I'm going to miss out on that stuff. But I'm going to miss out on that stuff. But I I will Are you not coming, Leonard? I I will Are you not coming, Leonard? I I will Are you not coming, Leonard? Uh I'll be there for dinner. We're doing Uh I'll be there for dinner. We're doing Uh I'll be there for dinner. We're doing dinner on Sunday. Dinner on Sunday.

dinner on Sunday. Dinner on Sunday. dinner on Sunday. Dinner on Sunday. >> So we'll probably do a uh >> So we'll probably do a uh >> So we'll probably do a uh right? Special edition. right? Special edition. right? Special edition. >> doing it? Yeah. No, I'm not I'm not >> doing it? Yeah. No, I'm not I'm not >> doing it? Yeah. No, I'm not I'm not there. Yeah, we'll do a there. Yeah, we'll do a there. Yeah, we'll do a the two of you will have dinner on the two of you will have dinner on the two of you will have dinner on Sunday. Yes. No, it's not just the two Sunday. Yes. No, it's not just the two Sunday. Yes. No, it's not just the two of us. Who else is Is it of us. Who else is Is it of us. Who else is Is it Is it just the two of us? Well, Rob's Is it just the two of us? Well, Rob's Is it just the two of us? Well, Rob's going to be there, right? I'm going to going to be there, right? I'm going to going to be there, right? I'm going to fly out on Monday. Monday. Okay, so it's fly out on Monday. Monday. Okay, so it's fly out on Monday. Monday. Okay, so it's just Leonard and I, then. Oh, okay. just Leonard and I, then. Oh, okay. just Leonard and I, then. Oh, okay. Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll Uh we'll have a chat then and Uh we'll have a chat then and Uh we'll have a chat then and >> Yeah. you know, record our steak. We'll >> Yeah. you know, record our steak. We'll >> Yeah. you know, record our steak. We'll record our yes. record our yes. record our yes. But um But um But um yeah, I'll I'll try to be there on uh yeah, I'll I'll try to be there on uh yeah, I'll I'll try to be there on uh Thursday. I will be there on Thursday. Thursday. I will be there on Thursday. Thursday. I will be there on Thursday. >> Yeah. But um I'm going to fly OUT ON >> Yeah. But um I'm going to fly OUT ON >> Yeah. But um I'm going to fly OUT ON THURSDAY. THURSDAY. THURSDAY. AH, YOU. DON'T worry about it. AH, YOU. DON'T worry about it. AH, YOU. DON'T worry about it. Okay. Uh hang on, let me see. But while Okay. Uh hang on, let me see. But while Okay. Uh hang on, let me see. But while you're trying to figure that out, you're trying to figure that out, you're trying to figure that out, Alister, I think you're you're totally Alister, I think you're you're totally Alister, I think you're you're totally spot-on about that. And um the AI spot-on about that. And um the AI spot-on about that. And um the AI community community community all those pieces that all those pieces that all those pieces that that weren't recognized at that stage in that weren't recognized at that stage in that weren't recognized at that stage in the IoT platform the IoT platform the IoT platform cycle hype cycle cycle hype cycle cycle hype cycle these AI guys don't see it.

these AI guys don't see it. these AI guys don't see it. They really don't see it. And so all of They really don't see it. And so all of They really don't see it. And so all of this stuff we know is going to bite this stuff we know is going to bite this stuff we know is going to bite everyone in the ass at some point. everyone in the ass at some point. everyone in the ass at some point. They're so fixated on tokens and blah They're so fixated on tokens and blah They're so fixated on tokens and blah blah blah and how tokens are blah blah and how tokens are blah blah and how tokens are intelligence. No, it's not. You know, intelligence. No, it's not. You know, intelligence. No, it's not. You know, people pay for outcomes people pay for outcomes people pay for outcomes and express value in the markets. And and express value in the markets. And and express value in the markets. And when you have something that is so when you have something that is so when you have something that is so squishy and unreliable, it's not squishy and unreliable, it's not squishy and unreliable, it's not deterministic. That's the problem with deterministic. That's the problem with deterministic. That's the problem with determinate. When that probabilistic determinate. When that probabilistic determinate. When that probabilistic nature of AI nature of AI nature of AI goes up the commercial channel, goes up the commercial channel, goes up the commercial channel, there's all kinds of problems that we there's all kinds of problems that we there's all kinds of problems that we haven't seen before and haven't seen before and haven't seen before and it it's going to create some economic it it's going to create some economic it it's going to create some economic backlash. Right? And you know, it's it backlash. Right? And you know, it's it backlash. Right? And you know, it's it will destroy a lot of these power points will destroy a lot of these power points will destroy a lot of these power points that are being put in front of companies that are being put in front of companies that are being put in front of companies with with with promises of X minus or whatever, 100 promises of X minus or whatever, 100 promises of X minus or whatever, 100 trillion dollars of economic value. Man, it's like it's like >> Being a disruptor, being a disruptor >> Being a disruptor, being a disruptor >> Being a disruptor, being a disruptor sounds great in a PowerPoint deck. Oh, sounds great in a PowerPoint deck. Oh, sounds great in a PowerPoint deck. Oh, yeah. I'm going to upend the economics.

yeah. I'm going to upend the economics. yeah. I'm going to upend the economics. It's going to be fun. You can build a It's going to be fun. You can build a It's going to be fun. You can build a nice model that explains why the end nice model that explains why the end nice model that explains why the end customer, the enterprise, you know, customer, the enterprise, you know, customer, the enterprise, you know, saves a ton of money. But the problem is saves a ton of money. But the problem is saves a ton of money. But the problem is if you're dependent upon the people if you're dependent upon the people if you're dependent upon the people you're disrupting, you know, to actually you're disrupting, you know, to actually you're disrupting, you know, to actually be the channel from you to that channel, be the channel from you to that channel, be the channel from you to that channel, >> Sure. guess what? They don't want to be >> Sure. guess what? They don't want to be >> Sure. guess what? They don't want to be disrupted. No, they don't want to be disrupted. No, they don't want to be disrupted. No, they don't want to be disrupted. They want to carry on just as disrupted. They want to carry on just as disrupted. They want to carry on just as it was always been. Right. I think I it was always been. Right. I think I it was always been. Right. I think I know what it's Well, that's why Tesla know what it's Well, that's why Tesla know what it's Well, that's why Tesla That's why Tesla sells their car their That's why Tesla sells their car their That's why Tesla sells their car their cars direct and not through a cars direct and not through a cars direct and not through a dealership, right? I mean, Yeah. classic dealership, right? I mean, Yeah. classic dealership, right? I mean, Yeah. classic classic change in the go-to-market classic change in the go-to-market classic change in the go-to-market strategy to be a disruptor. strategy to be a disruptor. strategy to be a disruptor. >> But what's the equivalent in AI though >> But what's the equivalent in AI though >> But what's the equivalent in AI though then? What's the equivalent of having then? What's the equivalent of having then? What's the equivalent of having your own dealership in AI? Yeah, it's your own dealership in AI? Yeah, it's your own dealership in AI? Yeah, it's tough. I mean, yeah, bypassing the tough. I mean, yeah, bypassing the tough. I mean, yeah, bypassing the system integrators. system integrators. system integrators. I am waiting for a startup to come pitch I am waiting for a startup to come pitch I am waiting for a startup to come pitch Alister and they're going to walk into Alister and they're going to walk into Alister and they're going to walk into the conference room and they're going to the conference room and they're going to the conference room and they're going to drop down their Mac Mini and a drop down their Mac Mini and a drop down their Mac Mini and a hologram's going to come out hologram's going to come out hologram's going to come out and open claw hologram is going to do and open claw hologram is going to do and open claw hologram is going to do the pitch. the pitch. the pitch. >> Oh my god. That would be >> Oh my god. That would be >> Oh my god. That would be >> Dude, you know what? You should You >> Dude, you know what? You should You >> Dude, you know what? You should You should be one of the primary writers for should be one of the primary writers for should be one of the primary writers for Silicon Valley 2.0. Yeah, I was going to Silicon Valley 2.0. Yeah, I was going to Silicon Valley 2.0. Yeah, I was going to say, that sounds like a reboot.

say, that sounds like a reboot. say, that sounds like a reboot. Reboot in the making. Oh, yeah. Reboot in the making. Oh, yeah. Reboot in the making. Oh, yeah. I mean, if you I've been watching this I mean, if you I've been watching this I mean, if you I've been watching this show, oh my god, it hurt hits so hard. show, oh my god, it hurt hits so hard. show, oh my god, it hurt hits so hard. >> Oh, yeah. No, Mike Judge, uh Silicon >> Oh, yeah. No, Mike Judge, uh Silicon >> Oh, yeah. No, Mike Judge, uh Silicon Valley, It's amazing how prescient that Valley, It's amazing how prescient that Valley, It's amazing how prescient that is. is. is. I know it's due for a reboot for sure. I know it's due for a reboot for sure. I know it's due for a reboot for sure. You're right. You're right. You're right. Uh Uh Uh yeah. yeah. yeah. >> Russ Hanneman, the return of Russ >> Russ Hanneman, the return of Russ >> Russ Hanneman, the return of Russ Hanneman. With the Lambo. Oh my god. With the Lambo. Oh my god. >> what was it? His trace comma trace coma >> what was it? His trace comma trace coma >> what was it? His trace comma trace coma tequila like Oh my god. So funny. Oh my god. So funny. Yeah. Well, who wants to take us out? Yeah. Well, who wants to take us out? Yeah. Well, who wants to take us out? >> Are we the only ones that know that the >> Are we the only ones that know that the >> Are we the only ones that know that the whole thing is kind of BS? whole thing is kind of BS? whole thing is kind of BS? Who? What is? Just the whole Silicon Who? What is? Just the whole Silicon Who? What is? Just the whole Silicon Valley and the silliness of it all, you Valley and the silliness of it all, you Valley and the silliness of it all, you know. know. know. Yeah, there's there's always fresh blood Yeah, there's there's always fresh blood Yeah, there's there's always fresh blood coming in. There's always fresh blood coming in. There's always fresh blood coming in. There's always fresh blood coming coming coming >> Always fresh blood coming in. Yeah. >> Always fresh blood coming in. Yeah. >> Always fresh blood coming in. Yeah. >> And the the actually taking it seriously >> And the the actually taking it seriously >> And the the actually taking it seriously is part of the entertainment, you know, is part of the entertainment, you know, is part of the entertainment, you know, it's part of the entertainment. You need it's part of the entertainment. You need it's part of the entertainment. You need some people that are not in on the joke.

some people that are not in on the joke. some people that are not in on the joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You need for the joke to happen. You need for the joke to happen. You need for the joke to happen. Exactly. Good point. Exactly. Good point. Exactly. Good point. Yeah, that but you know, we're we're the Yeah, that but you know, we're we're the Yeah, that but you know, we're we're the classic grumpy old guys, right? classic grumpy old guys, right? classic grumpy old guys, right? >> Yeah, sure. Get off my lawn. Especially >> Yeah, sure. Get off my lawn. Especially >> Yeah, sure. Get off my lawn. Especially that don't know anything. Yeah, yeah, we that don't know anything. Yeah, yeah, we that don't know anything. Yeah, yeah, we know nothing. Don't listen to us cuz know nothing. Don't listen to us cuz know nothing. Don't listen to us cuz we're we're not disruptive and all these we're we're not disruptive and all these we're we're not disruptive and all these other stupid buzzwords that are other stupid buzzwords that are other stupid buzzwords that are trying to characterize themselves as trying to characterize themselves as trying to characterize themselves as Leonard Leonard exudes grumpy old guy. Leonard Leonard exudes grumpy old guy. Leonard Leonard exudes grumpy old guy. Yeah, I do. I'm going to be super Yeah, I do. I'm going to be super Yeah, I do. I'm going to be super grumpy. It's horrible. As as you sit grumpy. It's horrible. As as you sit grumpy. It's horrible. As as you sit there in your in your beautiful vineyard there in your in your beautiful vineyard there in your in your beautiful vineyard back there up there. You see that? Yeah, back there up there. You see that? Yeah, back there up there. You see that? Yeah, it's like California But hey, all I got it's like California But hey, all I got it's like California But hey, all I got to say before we sign off is what the to say before we sign off is what the to say before we sign off is what the hell happened to Satya? We don't hear hell happened to Satya? We don't hear hell happened to Satya? We don't hear him talk about AI anymore. Has anyone him talk about AI anymore. Has anyone him talk about AI anymore. Has anyone heard anything from Microsoft about AI? heard anything from Microsoft about AI? heard anything from Microsoft about AI? They were like supposed to be They were like supposed to be They were like supposed to be the winner and blah blah blah, you know, the winner and blah blah blah, you know, the winner and blah blah blah, you know, all these all these all these guys. Well, you know, this is the issue guys. Well, you know, this is the issue guys. Well, you know, this is the issue is they don't have their own they have is they don't have their own they have is they don't have their own they have not commercialized their own not commercialized their own not commercialized their own foundational model IP or frontier model foundational model IP or frontier model foundational model IP or frontier model IP.

IP. IP. And so they did these deals and now it's And so they did these deals and now it's And so they did these deals and now it's Open AI which has become I don't want to Open AI which has become I don't want to Open AI which has become I don't want to say they've become toxic, but they're a say they've become toxic, but they're a say they've become toxic, but they're a bit radioactive in some cases. And so bit radioactive in some cases. And so bit radioactive in some cases. And so you know, then they're competing with you know, then they're competing with you know, then they're competing with Google who has their own foundation Google who has their own foundation Google who has their own foundation models and you know, and and Anthropic's models and you know, and and Anthropic's models and you know, and and Anthropic's gaining market share. So yeah, I mean gaining market share. So yeah, I mean gaining market share. So yeah, I mean Microsoft's like Microsoft's like Microsoft's like in the heat of the competition, but in the heat of the competition, but in the heat of the competition, but maybe without as many weapons as they maybe without as many weapons as they maybe without as many weapons as they thought. Yeah, didn't it find thought. Yeah, didn't it find thought. Yeah, didn't it find >> Or maybe it's not just them. Everybody >> Or maybe it's not just them. Everybody >> Or maybe it's not just them. Everybody everybody was saying that they were everybody was saying that they were everybody was saying that they were going to win. going to win. going to win. Except for maybe us, right? Or they are Except for maybe us, right? Or they are Except for maybe us, right? Or they are winning winning winning >> still eventually win things settle down, >> still eventually win things settle down, >> still eventually win things settle down, but I think they probably need some but I think they probably need some but I think they probably need some help. help. help. >> do own what? >> do own what? >> do own what? 20, 30, 40% of Open AI or something? 20, 30, 40% of Open AI or something? 20, 30, 40% of Open AI or something? >> They do. So they get to tag along with >> They do. So they get to tag along with >> They do. So they get to tag along with their They do. their They do. their They do. >> upside. But at what point do you pull >> upside. But at what point do you pull >> upside. But at what point do you pull the trigger and buy the rest of it the trigger and buy the rest of it the trigger and buy the rest of it though to to to though to to to though to to to take half the the value of Microsoft and take half the the value of Microsoft and take half the the value of Microsoft and let it go let it go let it go >> Well, you have to wait for them to go >> Well, you have to wait for them to go >> Well, you have to wait for them to go public and then crater and then buy the public and then crater and then buy the public and then crater and then buy the rest of it. Oh, yeah. Buy it now. Oh. rest of it. Oh, yeah. Buy it now. Oh. rest of it. Oh, yeah. Buy it now. Oh. Well, that might be Apple, actually. Well, that might be Apple, actually. Well, that might be Apple, actually. That's what they're waiting for.

That's what they're waiting for. That's what they're waiting for. Well, everyone's saying that they're Well, everyone's saying that they're Well, everyone's saying that they're behind on AI. behind on AI. behind on AI. Apple's probably just waiting for every Apple's probably just waiting for every Apple's probably just waiting for every all of us to crater and they're going to all of us to crater and they're going to all of us to crater and they're going to buy everything at penny on a dollar. buy everything at penny on a dollar. buy everything at penny on a dollar. >> Scoop it up with the office chairs, you >> Scoop it up with the office chairs, you >> Scoop it up with the office chairs, you know. Maybe they know more about AI than know. Maybe they know more about AI than know. Maybe they know more about AI than everybody else. everybody else. everybody else. Exactly. You know, that's what I that's Exactly. You know, that's what I that's Exactly. You know, that's what I that's what my company did with Hooli. We came what my company did with Hooli. We came what my company did with Hooli. We came in and just scooped all that up. Yeah, in and just scooped all that up. Yeah, in and just scooped all that up. Yeah, they remember that. The box. Did you they remember that. The box. Did you they remember that. The box. Did you build the box? We had the box. Yes. Do build the box? We had the box. Yes. Do build the box? We had the box. Yes. Do you have the Yeah, I'm I'm telling you you have the Yeah, I'm I'm telling you you have the Yeah, I'm I'm telling you the the future writers of Silicon Valley the the future writers of Silicon Valley the the future writers of Silicon Valley 2.0 are listening to this right now. 2.0 are listening to this right now. 2.0 are listening to this right now. Maybe we should start writing Maybe we Maybe we should start writing Maybe we Maybe we should start writing Maybe we need to work on our own fan fiction need to work on our own fan fiction need to work on our own fan fiction script. Oh, yeah. We should. I think script. Oh, yeah. We should. I think script. Oh, yeah. We should. I think that probably is the most promising that probably is the most promising that probably is the most promising future for all of us. Oh my god, dude. Uh all right, Oh my god, dude. Uh all right, everybody. Thanks for joining us on IoT everybody. Thanks for joining us on IoT everybody. Thanks for joining us on IoT Coffee Talk. Uh hopefully we'll see you Coffee Talk. Uh hopefully we'll see you Coffee Talk. Uh hopefully we'll see you all of you next week in lovely San all of you next week in lovely San all of you next week in lovely San Diego. Diego. Diego. >> San Diego. for the Edge AI conference. >> San Diego. for the Edge AI conference. >> San Diego. for the Edge AI conference. It's going to be a blast. It's going to It's going to be a blast. It's going to It's going to be a blast. It's going to be edgy and there might be some AI and be edgy and there might be some AI and be edgy and there might be some AI and maybe some open claws. We'll be right by maybe some open claws. We'll be right by maybe some open claws. We'll be right by the ocean so crustaceans can get you.

the ocean so crustaceans can get you. the ocean so crustaceans can get you. And we'll be, you know, hopefully people And we'll be, you know, hopefully people And we'll be, you know, hopefully people bring other Mac minis and show off their bring other Mac minis and show off their bring other Mac minis and show off their open claws there. That'll be exciting. I open claws there. That'll be exciting. I open claws there. That'll be exciting. I like the way he says that. I love that. like the way he says that. I love that. like the way he says that. I love that. That's really great. Great discussion That's really great. Great discussion That's really great. Great discussion today. Good talks about the venture today. Good talks about the venture today. Good talks about the venture capital world, you know? Oh, yeah. capital world, you know? Oh, yeah. capital world, you know? Oh, yeah. Venture capitalists, they're the world's Venture capitalists, they're the world's Venture capitalists, they're the world's worst gamblers, AS YOU KNOW. worst gamblers, AS YOU KNOW. worst gamblers, AS YOU KNOW. THEY They lose about what? 95% of the THEY They lose about what? 95% of the THEY They lose about what? 95% of the time and then hope to make up for it 5% time and then hope to make up for it 5% time and then hope to make up for it 5% of the time. But what if we don't have of the time. But what if we don't have of the time. But what if we don't have any more unicorns? What happens then, any more unicorns? What happens then, any more unicorns? What happens then, you know? It's like lose, lose, lose, you know? It's like lose, lose, lose, you know? It's like lose, lose, lose, lose, lose, Facebook. lose, lose, Facebook. lose, lose, Facebook. You know, lose, lose, lose, lose. You You know, lose, lose, lose, lose. You You know, lose, lose, lose, lose. You know what I mean? And so you have you know what I mean? And so you have you know what I mean? And so you have you were you VCs depend on that, right? And were you VCs depend on that, right? And were you VCs depend on that, right? And so Got to have the so Got to have the so Got to have the >> were 100% right, they'd all be in Vegas >> were 100% right, they'd all be in Vegas >> were 100% right, they'd all be in Vegas right now, you know, just cashing in big right now, you know, just cashing in big right now, you know, just cashing in big time. Um so but I was just going to turn time. Um so but I was just going to turn time. Um so but I was just going to turn that whole thing around. Yes. I'm going that whole thing around. Yes. I'm going that whole thing around. Yes. I'm going to turn it around. Yes. to turn it around. Yes. to turn it around. Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it can happen.

Yeah, it can happen. MAYBE HAVE A LITTLE MORE CONFIDENCE. MAYBE HAVE A LITTLE MORE CONFIDENCE. MAYBE HAVE A LITTLE MORE CONFIDENCE. YEAH. I'm sure we'll do some man on the YEAH. I'm sure we'll do some man on the YEAH. I'm sure we'll do some man on the street live interviews next week in San street live interviews next week in San street live interviews next week in San Diego. Yeah. Diego. Yeah. Diego. Yeah. Hey dude, you're part of the IoT Coffee Hey dude, you're part of the IoT Coffee Hey dude, you're part of the IoT Coffee Talk. Dude, you have to do us good, man. Talk. Dude, you have to do us good, man. Talk. Dude, you have to do us good, man. Represent. We have We trust you, dude. Represent. We have We trust you, dude. Represent. We have We trust you, dude. Should I pull out the flute? Should I pull out the flute? Should I pull out the flute? Oh, yeah. There you go. Oh, yeah. There you go. Oh, yeah. There you go. Some jazz flute. A LITTLE JAZZ FLUTE. Some jazz flute. A LITTLE JAZZ FLUTE. Some jazz flute. A LITTLE JAZZ FLUTE. ARE YOU GOING TO ARE YOU going to have ARE YOU GOING TO ARE YOU going to have ARE YOU GOING TO ARE YOU going to have the You're going to have your Ron the You're going to have your Ron the You're going to have your Ron Burgundy impersonator at the event next Burgundy impersonator at the event next Burgundy impersonator at the event next week? No, actually, he's booked, TURNS week? No, actually, he's booked, TURNS week? No, actually, he's booked, TURNS OUT. OH MY GOD. OH MY GOD. >> I ASKED, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO I want to >> I ASKED, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO I want to >> I ASKED, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO I want to have have have it is being a Ron Burgundy. But, you it is being a Ron Burgundy. But, you it is being a Ron Burgundy. But, you know, Rob feel free to show up in know, Rob feel free to show up in know, Rob feel free to show up in costume I think you costume I think you costume I think you Yeah I was going to say There you go. There you go. >> God. Yeah. All right guys. All right. >> God. Yeah. All right guys. All right. >> God. Yeah. All right guys. All right. Good seeing everybody. Good seeing everybody. Good seeing everybody. See you soon. Great episode loved it. See you soon. Great episode loved it. See you soon. Great episode loved it. All right.