IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 179 - Digital Transformation? No Thanks!

all right all right welcome to iot all right all right welcome to iot coffee talk everybody unfortunately coffee talk everybody unfortunately coffee talk everybody unfortunately Leonard's not here to play electric Leonard's not here to play electric Leonard's not here to play electric guitar to kick us off like we normally guitar to kick us off like we normally guitar to kick us off like we normally do um I think he's he's at a Lenovo do um I think he's he's at a Lenovo do um I think he's he's at a Lenovo event with every other analyst I know so event with every other analyst I know so event with every other analyst I know so like in Raleigh North like in Raleigh North like in Raleigh North [Music] Carolina Lenovo laptops man I I was Carolina Lenovo laptops man I I was think I was watching his little clip and think I was watching his little clip and think I was watching his little clip and you know this this you know I guess it's you know this this you know I guess it's you know this this you know I guess it's all self- serving the CEO of Lenovo says all self- serving the CEO of Lenovo says all self- serving the CEO of Lenovo says oh the I think we bottomed out on the PC oh the I think we bottomed out on the PC oh the I think we bottomed out on the PC collapse or he's hoping that at least collapse or he's hoping that at least collapse or he's hoping that at least you know I'm like well of course you're you know I'm like well of course you're you know I'm like well of course you're going to say that um and of course going to say that um and of course going to say that um and of course they're doing something with AI like they're doing something with AI like they're doing something with AI like everybody else you know who knows what everybody else you know who knows what everybody else you know who knows what it is um and then um I think they're it is um and then um I think they're it is um and then um I think they're doing some Edge Computing which is easy doing some Edge Computing which is easy doing some Edge Computing which is easy if you're a hardware player it's like if you're a hardware player it's like if you're a hardware player it's like yes here's this yes here's this yes here's this box to Edge because you know Lenovo is box to Edge because you know Lenovo is box to Edge because you know Lenovo is is gonna inherit like the Intel Knack is gonna inherit like the Intel Knack is gonna inherit like the Intel Knack production or something like that or the production or something like that or the production or something like that or the edge or no or that's just for someone edge or no or that's just for someone edge or no or that's just for someone else I don't know I don't know you know else I don't know I don't know you know else I don't know I don't know you know you know it's it's obviously this the you know it's it's obviously this the you know it's it's obviously this the software and inferencing and things like software and inferencing and things like software and inferencing and things like that the hard stuff if you're a that the hard stuff if you're a that the hard stuff if you're a manufacturer manufacturer manufacturer of of of x86 things you know anybody can just x86 things you know anybody can just x86 things you know anybody can just repurpose something and say yes here's repurpose something and say yes here's repurpose something and say yes here's our Edge offering you know it's just our Edge offering you know it's just our Edge offering you know it's just like the one from advantech or whoever like the one from advantech or whoever like the one from advantech or whoever you know um or Dell or HP you know which

you know um or Dell or HP you know which you know um or Dell or HP you know which is not too rocket sciency so you know is not too rocket sciency so you know is not too rocket sciency so you know who knows who knows who knows um so anyway looks like Steve tried to um so anyway looks like Steve tried to um so anyway looks like Steve tried to join and then died or whatever but join and then died or whatever but join and then died or whatever but anyway hey we've got Olivier block on anyway hey we've got Olivier block on anyway hey we've got Olivier block on today um he is like the the famous iot today um he is like the the famous iot today um he is like the the famous iot guy from Microsoft the host of The iot guy from Microsoft the host of The iot guy from Microsoft the host of The iot Show for years and years and years you Show for years and years and years you Show for years and years and years you know so many how many guests did you know so many how many guests did you know so many how many guests did you have on over the years at Microsoft do have on over the years at Microsoft do have on over the years at Microsoft do you you you think um I think I stopped counting the think um I think I stopped counting the think um I think I stopped counting the episodes at 300 and something that's episodes at 300 and something that's episodes at 300 and something that's great wild so yeah that's that's quite great wild so yeah that's that's quite great wild so yeah that's that's quite many and quite many topics and there many and quite many topics and there many and quite many topics and there were some like returning customers I were some like returning customers I were some like returning customers I would say but um but very rarely would say but um but very rarely would say but um but very rarely actually um so yeah that was that was actually um so yeah that was that was actually um so yeah that was that was fun story and I wanted to kick it back fun story and I wanted to kick it back fun story and I wanted to kick it back off because no one at Microsoft picked off because no one at Microsoft picked off because no one at Microsoft picked it up after I I left and uh so I was it up after I I left and uh so I was it up after I I left and uh so I was like you know what I created that thing like you know what I created that thing like you know what I created that thing was interesting people liked it yeah why was interesting people liked it yeah why was interesting people liked it yeah why not and why should I start with a new not and why should I start with a new not and why should I start with a new name I was like trying to figure out new name I was like trying to figure out new name I was like trying to figure out new name name like iot show 20 or the Ola name name like iot show 20 or the Ola name name like iot show 20 or the Ola show or and then I was like you know show or and then I was like you know show or and then I was like you know what iot show sounds pretty good let's what iot show sounds pretty good let's what iot show sounds pretty good let's stick with what you got yeah well stick with what you got yeah well stick with what you got yeah well because you already had a a built-in because you already had a a built-in because you already had a a built-in audience um and we've learned over the audience um and we've learned over the audience um and we've learned over the years from genius marketing people when years from genius marketing people when years from genius marketing people when they try to change the name of something they try to change the name of something they try to change the name of something and then it just literally kills the and then it just literally kills the and then it just literally kills the whole product and everything but they go

whole product and everything but they go whole product and everything but they go but this new name is so much better yeah but this new name is so much better yeah but this new name is so much better yeah it's like uh or you could had a number it's like uh or you could had a number it's like uh or you could had a number or a year and then a summer edition or a year and then a summer edition or a year and then a summer edition revision five whatever I think we had a revision five whatever I think we had a revision five whatever I think we had a period where uh it was still CDs like period where uh it was still CDs like period where uh it was still CDs like that we we were shipping products in that we we were shipping products in that we we were shipping products in where we didn't have room to write the where we didn't have room to write the where we didn't have room to write the names on the CD just got so long it was names on the CD just got so long it was names on the CD just got so long it was like freaking long name yeah yeah so I like freaking long name yeah yeah so I like freaking long name yeah yeah so I show it is um it's a new channel though show it is um it's a new channel though show it is um it's a new channel though because I used to do that on the because I used to do that on the because I used to do that on the Microsoft devil Channel and I can't do Microsoft devil Channel and I can't do Microsoft devil Channel and I can't do that on that channel anymore so it's my that on that channel anymore so it's my that on that channel anymore so it's my own personal channel that um you know if own personal channel that um you know if own personal channel that um you know if you if you're C ious about it as only you if you're C ious about it as only you if you're C ious about it as only two videos right now as the first two videos right now as the first two videos right now as the first episode with you of the iot show and episode with you of the iot show and episode with you of the iot show and then it has a 13year old video of my son then it has a 13year old video of my son then it has a 13year old video of my son so he was three years old at the time so he was three years old at the time so he was three years old at the time yeah touch playing around with a yeah touch playing around with a yeah touch playing around with a multi-touch screen so put put it back 13 multi-touch screen so put put it back 13 multi-touch screen so put put it back 13 years ago interacting with multi-touch years ago interacting with multi-touch years ago interacting with multi-touch screen was something fantastic enough screen was something fantastic enough screen was something fantastic enough for me to publish my first video on for me to publish my first video on for me to publish my first video on YouTube 13 years ago and then I kind of YouTube 13 years ago and then I kind of YouTube 13 years ago and then I kind of like went off with uh other channels but like went off with uh other channels but like went off with uh other channels but uh back to this one so I kept that video uh back to this one so I kept that video uh back to this one so I kept that video 1 years old because I thought it was a 1 years old because I thought it was a 1 years old because I thought it was a good piece of Legacy thing to have there good piece of Legacy thing to have there good piece of Legacy thing to have there multi-touch screens that was like multi-touch screens that was like multi-touch screens that was like iPhones claimed to fame when they iPhones claimed to fame when they iPhones claimed to fame when they launched and they were making fun of us launched and they were making fun of us launched and they were making fun of us with Windows mobile and Windows phone or with Windows mobile and Windows phone or with Windows mobile and Windows phone or I guess Windows mobile specifically I guess Windows mobile specifically I guess Windows mobile specifically because we had the little plastic because we had the little plastic because we had the little plastic stylus yeah exactly you need the tiny stylus yeah exactly you need the tiny stylus yeah exactly you need the tiny STI right yeah and the plastic screens

STI right yeah and the plastic screens STI right yeah and the plastic screens you of course those devices lasted you of course those devices lasted you of course those devices lasted longer CU they couldn't break because it longer CU they couldn't break because it longer CU they couldn't break because it wasn't glass but it wasn't cool CU it wasn't glass but it wasn't cool CU it wasn't glass but it wasn't cool CU it wasn't 10-point multi-touch and all that wasn't 10-point multi-touch and all that wasn't 10-point multi-touch and all that stuff you know and everybody's like oh stuff you know and everybody's like oh stuff you know and everybody's like oh crap Steve Jobs just showed a 10-point crap Steve Jobs just showed a 10-point crap Steve Jobs just showed a 10-point multi-touch phone with glass and a glass multi-touch phone with glass and a glass multi-touch phone with glass and a glass back too I don't know why he did that back too I don't know why he did that back too I don't know why he did that but we've got to hurry and copy that you but we've got to hurry and copy that you but we've got to hurry and copy that you know I feel like our last harra was the know I feel like our last harra was the know I feel like our last harra was the uh HTC the the HD to or something like uh HTC the the HD to or something like uh HTC the the HD to or something like that remember the the probably the last that remember the the probably the last that remember the the probably the last before you transition to Windows before you transition to Windows before you transition to Windows phone as far as Windows mobile and HTC I phone as far as Windows mobile and HTC I phone as far as Windows mobile and HTC I mean HTC was like the driving force mean HTC was like the driving force mean HTC was like the driving force behind us big time yes it remember behind us big time yes it remember behind us big time yes it remember having not to lose that little plastic having not to lose that little plastic having not to lose that little plastic you know pen you had the little lanyard you know pen you had the little lanyard you know pen you had the little lanyard that was it yeah yeah and then you had that was it yeah yeah and then you had that was it yeah yeah and then you had the extension battery pack that was the extension battery pack that was the extension battery pack that was coming in back so it was like actually coming in back so it was like actually coming in back so it was like actually getting because one thing I was doing is getting because one thing I was doing is getting because one thing I was doing is I was could I was in Paris at the time I was could I was in Paris at the time I was could I was in Paris at the time was commuting in the subway and I was was commuting in the subway and I was was commuting in the subway and I was watching movies on my pocket PC and watching movies on my pocket PC and watching movies on my pocket PC and people were just like looking at me what people were just like looking at me what people were just like looking at me what is like what that's awesome c yeah that is like what that's awesome c yeah that is like what that's awesome c yeah that was fun that was fun he's from the was fun that was fun he's from the was fun that was fun he's from the future yeah well I had to yeah I had to future yeah well I had to yeah I had to future yeah well I had to yeah I had to burn the movies I will not tell you burn the movies I will not tell you burn the movies I will not tell you where they were coming from but oh where they were coming from but oh where they were coming from but oh yeah I'm sure I'm sure now kind of but yeah I'm sure I'm sure now kind of but yeah I'm sure I'm sure now kind of but it's funny how how everything uh get

it's funny how how everything uh get it's funny how how everything uh get normalized I mean so people was asking normalized I mean so people was asking normalized I mean so people was asking for like U streaming films like no 15 for like U streaming films like no 15 for like U streaming films like no 15 years ago so finally it happened no some years ago so finally it happened no some years ago so finally it happened no some companies realized that there was a companies realized that there was a companies realized that there was a business no viracy could end if someone business no viracy could end if someone business no viracy could end if someone could provide like a quality service could provide like a quality service could provide like a quality service right yeah so nobody I don't think right yeah so nobody I don't think right yeah so nobody I don't think nobody downloads MP3s anymore or a lot nobody downloads MP3s anymore or a lot nobody downloads MP3s anymore or a lot right unless it's mandatory these days right unless it's mandatory these days right unless it's mandatory these days so so I think the interesting thing Mark so so I think the interesting thing Mark so so I think the interesting thing Mark is that I download music for example on is that I download music for example on is that I download music for example on my watch to go on on the Run whatever I my watch to go on on the Run whatever I my watch to go on on the Run whatever I don't know what the format don't know what the format don't know what the format is I don't know if it's MP3 or something is I don't know if it's MP3 or something is I don't know if it's MP3 or something else and I don't care as a user right else and I don't care as a user right else and I don't care as a user right that's probably the big thing and that's that's probably the big thing and that's that's probably the big thing and that's where we screw up all the time is we get where we screw up all the time is we get where we screw up all the time is we get so focused on TCH and so focused on TCH and so focused on TCH and features the customer just cares about features the customer just cares about features the customer just cares about the outcome they don't care about the outcome they don't care about the outcome they don't care about everything else is just Plumbing you everything else is just Plumbing you everything else is just Plumbing you know y sometimes we get too obsessed know y sometimes we get too obsessed know y sometimes we get too obsessed with all the details like that the with all the details like that the with all the details like that the customer could care less and and that's customer could care less and and that's customer could care less and and that's some that's often the Doom of like early some that's often the Doom of like early some that's often the Doom of like early adopters or early releasers I would say adopters or early releasers I would say adopters or early releasers I would say of Technology because they focus on the of Technology because they focus on the of Technology because they focus on the technology because they have a hard time technology because they have a hard time technology because they have a hard time explaining the value prop or um you know explaining the value prop or um you know explaining the value prop or um you know the interest pocket piec fantastic but the interest pocket piec fantastic but the interest pocket piec fantastic but we're all focused on the technology like we're all focused on the technology like we're all focused on the technology like 10 10 points touch scen like who cares 10 10 points touch scen like who cares 10 10 points touch scen like who cares as a user I I have 10 fingers but I'm as a user I I have 10 fingers but I'm as a user I I have 10 fingers but I'm going to hold the phone with one so why going to hold the phone with one so why going to hold the phone with one so why do I need 10 points

do I need 10 points do I need 10 points but and and that was one of the funny but and and that was one of the funny but and and that was one of the funny things with that one but but in general things with that one but but in general things with that one but but in general you you look at the early releases of you you look at the early releases of you you look at the early releases of products like Microsoft tablets you know products like Microsoft tablets you know products like Microsoft tablets you know Tablet PCs like no one believed in them Tablet PCs like no one believed in them Tablet PCs like no one believed in them but you know and Bill Gates and I don't but you know and Bill Gates and I don't but you know and Bill Gates and I don't know if still Balmer did but Bill Gates know if still Balmer did but Bill Gates know if still Balmer did but Bill Gates believed in them launched them they were believed in them launched them they were believed in them launched them they were too early people didn't really realize too early people didn't really realize too early people didn't really realize why they needed to have a touchcreen on why they needed to have a touchcreen on why they needed to have a touchcreen on a PC or on a laptop and they kind of a PC or on a laptop and they kind of a PC or on a laptop and they kind of died off and they came back but you know died off and they came back but you know died off and they came back but you know came back you know too early we were came back you know too early we were came back you know too early we were early to a lot of things but didn't get early to a lot of things but didn't get early to a lot of things but didn't get credit Apple would get credit when they credit Apple would get credit when they credit Apple would get credit when they would come out with the same thing yeah would come out with the same thing yeah would come out with the same thing yeah but it would come with the same thing but it would come with the same thing but it would come with the same thing was with a purpose that was and they was with a purpose that was and they was with a purpose that was and they were marketing it as this as in you know were marketing it as this as in you know were marketing it as this as in you know the use cases and they were maybe the use cases and they were maybe the use cases and they were maybe narrowing down to two or three use cases narrowing down to two or three use cases narrowing down to two or three use cases that consumers would understand and that consumers would understand and that consumers would understand and would say yes I need that and then we would say yes I need that and then we would say yes I need that and then we were just like but you had that already were just like but you had that already were just like but you had that already but no you never told me he was doing but no you never told me he was doing but no you never told me he was doing that I think that was our Folly at that I think that was our Folly at that I think that was our Folly at Microsoft we clearly didn't know how to Microsoft we clearly didn't know how to Microsoft we clearly didn't know how to market the way Apple can Apple's just market the way Apple can Apple's just market the way Apple can Apple's just marketing genius um you're right we are marketing genius um you're right we are marketing genius um you're right we are so engineering focused so Tech focused so engineering focused so Tech focused so engineering focused so Tech focused so feature focused and we would talk so feature focused and we would talk so feature focused and we would talk about all that stuff and because you're about all that stuff and because you're about all that stuff and because you're right it's like here's Windows XP tablet right it's like here's Windows XP tablet right it's like here's Windows XP tablet edition edition edition SE SE SE 2002 whatever service pack 7 and you 2002 whatever service pack 7 and you 2002 whatever service pack 7 and you know and it's like look at this you know

know and it's like look at this you know know and it's like look at this you know and you're right I remember Bill G you and you're right I remember Bill G you and you're right I remember Bill G you know in public signing off on something know in public signing off on something know in public signing off on something you know kind of like Doc you sign today you know kind of like Doc you sign today you know kind of like Doc you sign today or whatever and and it's like this is or whatever and and it's like this is or whatever and and it's like this is the future oh my God and then it just the future oh my God and then it just the future oh my God and then it just kind of fizzled out you know um remember kind of fizzled out you know um remember kind of fizzled out you know um remember that was one of my PCS when I was that was one of my PCS when I was that was one of my PCS when I was working there I think it was a Toshiba working there I think it was a Toshiba working there I think it was a Toshiba that kind of convertible flip around that kind of convertible flip around that kind of convertible flip around whatever whatever whatever thing it just it didn't take off you thing it just it didn't take off you thing it just it didn't take off you know and then the iPad comes out it's know and then the iPad comes out it's know and then the iPad comes out it's like oh it's a miracle Apple invented like oh it's a miracle Apple invented like oh it's a miracle Apple invented the the the tablet you know or connecting with this tablet you know or connecting with this tablet you know or connecting with this sorry connecting with this you think iot sorry connecting with this you think iot sorry connecting with this you think iot still too early is iot too early that's still too early is iot too early that's still too early is iot too early that's a great a great a great question I think I personally think that question I think I personally think that question I think I personally think that it's not a matter of too early it's a it's not a matter of too early it's a it's not a matter of too early it's a matter how it's presented and too often matter how it's presented and too often matter how it's presented and too often it's technology for the sake of it's technology for the sake of it's technology for the sake of Technology look at my fantastic new Technology look at my fantastic new Technology look at my fantastic new model that runs on night tiny device and model that runs on night tiny device and model that runs on night tiny device and I can make coffee like uh how's that I can make coffee like uh how's that I can make coffee like uh how's that going to optimize my production line and going to optimize my production line and going to optimize my production line and uh and we we very often like say it's is uh and we we very often like say it's is uh and we we very often like say it's is it a marketing problem is it I I'm not it a marketing problem is it I I'm not it a marketing problem is it I I'm not sure I don't know I think it's um we sure I don't know I think it's um we sure I don't know I think it's um we technologists are excited about the technologists are excited about the technologists are excited about the technology and we don't appeal to the technology and we don't appeal to the technology and we don't appeal to the decision makers because we we hardly decision makers because we we hardly decision makers because we we hardly ever say it's going to save you that ever say it's going to save you that ever say it's going to save you that much amount of money you know every much amount of money you know every much amount of money you know every months it's going to optimize your months it's going to optimize your months it's going to optimize your production line and your workers life production line and your workers life production line and your workers life it's going to this kind of thing things it's going to this kind of thing things it's going to this kind of thing things which are the actual purpose of of iot

which are the actual purpose of of iot which are the actual purpose of of iot or goal that you're trying to to achieve or goal that you're trying to to achieve or goal that you're trying to to achieve um are not the primary focus of the um are not the primary focus of the um are not the primary focus of the marketing of the conversation and I marketing of the conversation and I marketing of the conversation and I don't think it's too early I think it's don't think it's too early I think it's don't think it's too early I think it's the right it's the wrong the right it's the wrong the right it's the wrong messaging is messaging is messaging is lending yeah yeah no you might be right lending yeah yeah no you might be right lending yeah yeah no you might be right there I think we did get focused on the there I think we did get focused on the there I think we did get focused on the wrong stuff and then people get excited wrong stuff and then people get excited wrong stuff and then people get excited about you know you see this to me this about you know you see this to me this about you know you see this to me this like this pendulum you know analogy like this pendulum you know analogy like this pendulum you know analogy where we from hey devices are all here where we from hey devices are all here where we from hey devices are all here they become smart and then suddenly oh they become smart and then suddenly oh they become smart and then suddenly oh they're connected so everything has to they're connected so everything has to they're connected so everything has to be in the cloud so like let's push be in the cloud so like let's push be in the cloud so like let's push everything in the cloud and now the everything in the cloud and now the everything in the cloud and now the panum is coming back and kind of trying panum is coming back and kind of trying panum is coming back and kind of trying trying to stabilize saying hey we need trying to stabilize saying hey we need trying to stabilize saying hey we need to have the data distributed and the to have the data distributed and the to have the data distributed and the workloads distributed how do we do that workloads distributed how do we do that workloads distributed how do we do that we need an Orest trator we need and and we need an Orest trator we need and and we need an Orest trator we need and and all of this trending which is you know all of this trending which is you know all of this trending which is you know the promise of you know the the thing the promise of you know the the thing the promise of you know the the thing that's going to solve everything is a is that's going to solve everything is a is that's going to solve everything is a is a new technology rather than hey what a new technology rather than hey what a new technology rather than hey what are the problems you're trying to solve are the problems you're trying to solve are the problems you're trying to solve and we're going to address them because and we're going to address them because and we're going to address them because sending all the data in the cloud was sending all the data in the cloud was sending all the data in the cloud was not addressing the main problem that not addressing the main problem that not addressing the main problem that were trying that we were trying to were trying that we were trying to were trying that we were trying to address and you know if we're able to address and you know if we're able to address and you know if we're able to focus on the problems that we're trying focus on the problems that we're trying focus on the problems that we're trying to address rather than on the coolness to address rather than on the coolness to address rather than on the coolness of the technology or what's of the technology or what's of the technology or what's possible we we might go faster where possible we we might go faster where possible we we might go faster where we're going I don't think it's it's a we're going I don't think it's it's a we're going I don't think it's it's a matter of too soon too late it's a matter of too soon too late it's a matter of too soon too late it's a matter of the right matter of the right matter of the right way yeah I think like the way wrong way yeah I think like the way wrong way yeah I think like the way wrong messaging early on remember Frisco dove messaging early on remember Frisco dove messaging early on remember Frisco dove into iot early on and they did lots of into iot early on and they did lots of into iot early on and they did lots of marketing around it and and they were

marketing around it and and they were marketing around it and and they were the ones who came up the whole fog thing the ones who came up the whole fog thing the ones who came up the whole fog thing if you remember fog Computing and uh but if you remember fog Computing and uh but if you remember fog Computing and uh but I remember the Cisco people specifically I remember the Cisco people specifically I remember the Cisco people specifically they'd be out there and their message to they'd be out there and their message to they'd be out there and their message to everyone was connect your everyone was connect your everyone was connect your things that was it just connect your things that was it just connect your things that was it just connect your things like why you had people say if it things like why you had people say if it things like why you had people say if it can be connected it should be connected can be connected it should be connected can be connected it should be connected to the internet everything must be to the internet everything must be to the internet everything must be connected there was no value prop there connected there was no value prop there connected there was no value prop there was no use case it was just connect your was no use case it was just connect your was no use case it was just connect your things and then I watched Cisco go things and then I watched Cisco go things and then I watched Cisco go through like two or three rounds of through like two or three rounds of through like two or three rounds of layoffs over time when they're like H I layoffs over time when they're like H I layoffs over time when they're like H I don't know why we're not being don't know why we're not being don't know why we're not being successful you know it's like huh you successful you know it's like huh you successful you know it's like huh you know yeah know yeah know yeah exct I'm I'm preparing an episode um exct I'm I'm preparing an episode um exct I'm I'm preparing an episode um with call cooken uh with VP of with call cooken uh with VP of with call cooken uh with VP of engineering at atrios which is a um you engineering at atrios which is a um you engineering at atrios which is a um you know a company looking a division of a know a company looking a division of a know a company looking a division of a company looking into smart light daying company looking into smart light daying company looking into smart light daying and you know for for Enterprise and one and you know for for Enterprise and one and you know for for Enterprise and one thing he was telling me is that and a thing he was telling me is that and a thing he was telling me is that and a reality in his domain that is also true reality in his domain that is also true reality in his domain that is also true in other areas is that lots of customers in other areas is that lots of customers in other areas is that lots of customers have tons of data from sensors and have tons of data from sensors and have tons of data from sensors and devices that they they just piled on devices that they they just piled on devices that they they just piled on never knowing exactly what to do with never knowing exactly what to do with never knowing exactly what to do with that and they have that on some Excel that and they have that on some Excel that and they have that on some Excel spreadsheet some database never did spreadsheet some database never did spreadsheet some database never did anything with it they have connected anything with it they have connected anything with it they have connected devices connected sensors they have tons devices connected sensors they have tons devices connected sensors they have tons of data but they're just sitting on that

of data but they're just sitting on that of data but they're just sitting on that and he was telling me that sometimes and he was telling me that sometimes and he was telling me that sometimes it's a gold mine because they can it's a gold mine because they can it's a gold mine because they can rapidly generate AI models based on that rapidly generate AI models based on that rapidly generate AI models based on that data and then deploy models they're very data and then deploy models they're very data and then deploy models they're very rapidly efficient and producing value at rapidly efficient and producing value at rapidly efficient and producing value at the edge uh thanks to that pile of data the edge uh thanks to that pile of data the edge uh thanks to that pile of data has been accumulated so he was like on a has been accumulated so he was like on a has been accumulated so he was like on a way thankful to have had these devices way thankful to have had these devices way thankful to have had these devices connected for so long without doing connected for so long without doing connected for so long without doing anything with the data but still I mean anything with the data but still I mean anything with the data but still I mean to the customers it's been costing money to the customers it's been costing money to the customers it's been costing money deploying these devices and certainly a deploying these devices and certainly a deploying these devices and certainly a couple of CTO and cios that looked into couple of CTO and cios that looked into couple of CTO and cios that looked into that some got fired some tried to bury that some got fired some tried to bury that some got fired some tried to bury that somewhere I don't know but uh I that somewhere I don't know but uh I that somewhere I don't know but uh I think it's it's the case everywhere I think it's it's the case everywhere I think it's it's the case everywhere I think you're right like you know one of think you're right like you know one of think you're right like you know one of these terms that popped out over the these terms that popped out over the these terms that popped out over the years a lot of people didn't know about years a lot of people didn't know about years a lot of people didn't know about is a thing called a is a thing called a is a thing called a historian and to your point about p of historian and to your point about p of historian and to your point about p of data I noticed the in Texas in the oil data I noticed the in Texas in the oil data I noticed the in Texas in the oil and gas industry lots of those oil and gas industry lots of those oil and gas industry lots of those oil companies had had a storian early on way companies had had a storian early on way companies had had a storian early on way before we were talking about iot but to before we were talking about iot but to before we were talking about iot but to your point they were just piling up data your point they were just piling up data your point they were just piling up data in this historian and they didn't do in this historian and they didn't do in this historian and they didn't do anything with it someone told them they anything with it someone told them they anything with it someone told them they needed to have the data and they're like needed to have the data and they're like needed to have the data and they're like okay check just in case you need it one okay check just in case you need it one okay check just in case you need it one day yeah yeah and so all these offshore day yeah yeah and so all these offshore day yeah yeah and so all these offshore drilling rigs with historians you know drilling rigs with historians you know drilling rigs with historians you know with pedabytes of data and they're like with pedabytes of data and they're like with pedabytes of data and they're like yeah whatever I'm busy you know I'm I yeah whatever I'm busy you know I'm I yeah whatever I'm busy you know I'm I got work to do and they just never did got work to do and they just never did got work to do and they just never did anything with it there are some early anything with it there are some early anything with it there are some early players the folks who were like in that

players the folks who were like in that players the folks who were like in that historian space had an opportunity to be historian space had an opportunity to be historian space had an opportunity to be leaders in advanced analytics I think uh leaders in advanced analytics I think uh leaders in advanced analytics I think uh if they'd seen the opportunity you know if they'd seen the opportunity you know if they'd seen the opportunity you know at the time because they were capturing at the time because they were capturing at the time because they were capturing so much data from so many systems you so much data from so many systems you so much data from so many systems you know it's crazy they were busy right know it's crazy they were busy right know it's crazy they were busy right like convincing the people to just store like convincing the people to just store like convincing the people to just store everything people are busy everything people are busy everything people are busy Mark you and I talk about this and your Mark you and I talk about this and your Mark you and I talk about this and your other friend there in Barcelona um with other friend there in Barcelona um with other friend there in Barcelona um with this company we had a probably one what this company we had a probably one what this company we had a probably one what I think one of my favorite coffee talk I think one of my favorite coffee talk I think one of my favorite coffee talk episodes was when you know there's so episodes was when you know there's so episodes was when you know there's so many iot companies built platforms many iot companies built platforms many iot companies built platforms trying to have success trying to get trying to have success trying to get trying to have success trying to get people to use their technology it's been people to use their technology it's been people to use their technology it's been such a struggle um and and and then I such a struggle um and and and then I such a struggle um and and and then I remember he said we were close to the remember he said we were close to the remember he said we were close to the end it's like are we going to close down end it's like are we going to close down end it's like are we going to close down our company or whatever and we off had our company or whatever and we off had our company or whatever and we off had an offsite with all the leadership we an offsite with all the leadership we an offsite with all the leadership we went to the Mountaintop for a weekend went to the Mountaintop for a weekend went to the Mountaintop for a weekend and we thought about it and we said all and we thought about it and we said all and we thought about it and we said all right maybe we should try Consulting right maybe we should try Consulting right maybe we should try Consulting maybe we should hold the customer's hand maybe we should hold the customer's hand maybe we should hold the customer's hand we're asking customers to do this we're asking customers to do this we're asking customers to do this digital transformation thing we gave digital transformation thing we gave digital transformation thing we gave them the tools and we weren't having them the tools and we weren't having them the tools and we weren't having much success we were we're hanging on as much success we were we're hanging on as much success we were we're hanging on as soon as he said as soon as we flipped soon as he said as soon as we flipped soon as he said as soon as we flipped the switch and said hey all our the switch and said hey all our the switch and said hey all our customers we're going to bring our customers we're going to bring our customers we're going to bring our people out we will still lead with our people out we will still lead with our people out we will still lead with our product but our people are going to come product but our people are going to come product but our people are going to come out and we are going to help you do your

out and we are going to help you do your out and we are going to help you do your digital transformation for you and as digital transformation for you and as digital transformation for you and as soon as they did that it changed soon as they did that it changed soon as they did that it changed everything for their company and I know everything for their company and I know everything for their company and I know lots of product people loae hate the lots of product people loae hate the lots of product people loae hate the idea of being a consultant or idea of being a consultant or idea of being a consultant or Professional Services they're like oh Professional Services they're like oh Professional Services they're like oh I'm not that guy I'm not billable I'm not that guy I'm not billable I'm not that guy I'm not billable consultant or whatever here's my product consultant or whatever here's my product consultant or whatever here's my product go use it go use it go use it but in the case at least of iot and and but in the case at least of iot and and but in the case at least of iot and and some of this digital transformation some of this digital transformation some of this digital transformation stuff that made all the difference back stuff that made all the difference back stuff that made all the difference back to the point of people are busy at work to the point of people are busy at work to the point of people are busy at work they already have a job they their they already have a job they their they already have a job they their calendar is full their day is full and calendar is full their day is full and calendar is full their day is full and then you ask them here's this technology then you ask them here's this technology then you ask them here's this technology because everybody all of us built iot because everybody all of us built iot because everybody all of us built iot systems that are self-served you know systems that are self-served you know systems that are self-served you know here it is use it you know like Excel or here it is use it you know like Excel or here it is use it you know like Excel or whatever you know just use it and then whatever you know just use it and then whatever you know just use it and then people didn't use it and we were like people didn't use it and we were like people didn't use it and we were like but but maybe if we switch to low code but but maybe if we switch to low code but but maybe if we switch to low code they'll use it you know or whatever or they'll use it you know or whatever or they'll use it you know or whatever or SAS or SAS as in it will have it locked SAS or SAS as in it will have it locked SAS or SAS as in it will have it locked down to being sass offering and you just down to being sass offering and you just down to being sass offering and you just have to log in and look at your have to log in and look at your have to log in and look at your dashboard yeah yeah and and we're like dashboard yeah yeah and and we're like dashboard yeah yeah and and we're like what's wrong with you people here it is what's wrong with you people here it is what's wrong with you people here it is it's easy you know um but I think we at it's easy you know um but I think we at it's easy you know um but I think we at least in that scenario learned a lesson least in that scenario learned a lesson least in that scenario learned a lesson that's like if you say there was a that's like if you say there was a that's like if you say there was a desire by the customer to trans form desire by the customer to trans form desire by the customer to trans form their business but everybody's busy it's their business but everybody's busy it's their business but everybody's busy it's like all right we'll show up help you like all right we'll show up help you like all right we'll show up help you this is why I'm still super surprised at this is why I'm still super surprised at this is why I'm still super surprised at Bina that uh the platform was designed

Bina that uh the platform was designed Bina that uh the platform was designed this way it's a selfer platform actually this way it's a selfer platform actually this way it's a selfer platform actually the founder aland marinos he didn't want the founder aland marinos he didn't want the founder aland marinos he didn't want to have any sales well there is any to have any sales well there is any to have any sales well there is any sales department he didn't want to have sales department he didn't want to have sales department he didn't want to have marketing he didn't want to do ads or or marketing he didn't want to do ads or or marketing he didn't want to do ads or or anything so and and it's amazing how we anything so and and it's amazing how we anything so and and it's amazing how we have thousands and of and thousands of have thousands and of and thousands of have thousands and of and thousands of customers with a with a super really customers with a with a super really customers with a with a super really complex project um W without doing any complex project um W without doing any complex project um W without doing any Outreach Outreach Outreach without only answering EMA emails of without only answering EMA emails of without only answering EMA emails of leits that they already test the product leits that they already test the product leits that they already test the product install an a different Linux operating install an a different Linux operating install an a different Linux operating system and use Docker containers to system and use Docker containers to system and use Docker containers to update the software so there there are update the software so there there are update the software so there there are exceptions I promise you that exception exceptions I promise you that exception exceptions I promise you that exception exist but yeah as you as you described exist but yeah as you as you described exist but yeah as you as you described yeah probably it was a very wish yeah probably it was a very wish yeah probably it was a very wish F yeah a very Wishful moment U that F yeah a very Wishful moment U that F yeah a very Wishful moment U that people thought the marketing plans and people thought the marketing plans and people thought the marketing plans and the marketing the business plans would the marketing the business plans would the marketing the business plans would yeah happen because they went on an Exel yeah happen because they went on an Exel yeah happen because they went on an Exel sheet or or on a sheet or or on a sheet or or on a PowerPoint no you're right you've had PowerPoint no you're right you've had PowerPoint no you're right you've had really great success with bolena I really great success with bolena I really great success with bolena I remember when it was remember when it was remember when it was resin.io and early days and go to the resin.io and early days and go to the resin.io and early days and go to the website and it was like some kind of website and it was like some kind of website and it was like some kind of video of a Raspberry Pi on some kind of video of a Raspberry Pi on some kind of video of a Raspberry Pi on some kind of assembly line or something something assembly line or something something assembly line or something something like that and your github's going to like that and your github's going to like that and your github's going to push your software to the balen deal on push your software to the balen deal on push your software to the balen deal on the pie and everything like that the pie and everything like that the pie and everything like that remember but you're right you know that remember but you're right you know that remember but you're right you know that that talk you know when you talk about a that talk you know when you talk about a that talk you know when you talk about a different type of business model or

different type of business model or different type of business model or marketing you guys hear much about this marketing you guys hear much about this marketing you guys hear much about this whole product Le growth plg kind of whole product Le growth plg kind of whole product Le growth plg kind of sales motion marketing sales motion marketing sales motion marketing thing no well you say two word in that thing no well you say two word in that thing no well you say two word in that sentence that uh like I know I need to sentence that uh like I know I need to sentence that uh like I know I need to look into which is like sales and look into which is like sales and look into which is like sales and marketing but yes yes you know many of marketing but yes yes you know many of marketing but yes yes you know many of us Engineers are dead out in the street us Engineers are dead out in the street us Engineers are dead out in the street because we built great technology but we because we built great technology but we because we built great technology but we didn't know how to sell it or Market it didn't know how to sell it or Market it didn't know how to sell it or Market it yep turns out that's yep turns out that's yep turns out that's important detail I need detail little important detail I need detail little important detail I need detail little detail sales I know I always used to be detail sales I know I always used to be detail sales I know I always used to be like oh these dang sales guys and their like oh these dang sales guys and their like oh these dang sales guys and their Platinum I just need a couple more Platinum I just need a couple more Platinum I just need a couple more developers developers developers please please please yeah yeah that was always a the sales yeah yeah that was always a the sales yeah yeah that was always a the sales thing was always a weird deal for me in thing was always a weird deal for me in thing was always a weird deal for me in Tech technology because you're like what Tech technology because you're like what Tech technology because you're like what what wait we built this stuff we're the what wait we built this stuff we're the what wait we built this stuff we're the inventors of this technology we're the inventors of this technology we're the inventors of this technology we're the most important people why are you guys most important people why are you guys most important people why are you guys getting these giant bonuses and getting getting these giant bonuses and getting getting these giant bonuses and getting to go to Monaco for a trip every summer to go to Monaco for a trip every summer to go to Monaco for a trip every summer with all the executives because you hit with all the executives because you hit with all the executives because you hit some you know quota or whatever and but some you know quota or whatever and but some you know quota or whatever and but over time I got over time I got over time I got it Silicon Valley is littered with great it Silicon Valley is littered with great it Silicon Valley is littered with great products that just died because they products that just died because they products that just died because they didn't didn't know how to sell them didn't didn't know how to sell them didn't didn't know how to sell them didn't know how to Market them you know didn't know how to Market them you know didn't know how to Market them you know and and very often in my opinion even in and and very often in my opinion even in and and very often in my opinion even in big companies it's been in in one big big companies it's been in in one big big companies it's been in in one big one lately and marketing is involved too one lately and marketing is involved too one lately and marketing is involved too late so you have a great late so you have a great late so you have a great technology

technology technology and very often the engineering team and very often the engineering team and very often the engineering team especially if it's a company that has especially if it's a company that has especially if it's a company that has money they will produce something that money they will produce something that money they will produce something that is fantastic from the technology is fantastic from the technology is fantastic from the technology perspective and then they're looking for perspective and then they're looking for perspective and then they're looking for use cases and they they basically throw use cases and they they basically throw use cases and they they basically throw that over the fence to marketing and say that over the fence to marketing and say that over the fence to marketing and say hey Market that and Market is just like hey Market that and Market is just like hey Market that and Market is just like oh okay what's the audience let's TR oh okay what's the audience let's TR oh okay what's the audience let's TR let's let's try and find a use case let's let's try and find a use case let's let's try and find a use case versus having versus having versus having marketers look at the market before any marketers look at the market before any marketers look at the market before any development starts and and Define what development starts and and Define what development starts and and Define what are the use cases that should drive the are the use cases that should drive the are the use cases that should drive the development of the features of that development of the features of that development of the features of that product and it feels like we're not product and it feels like we're not product and it feels like we're not doing that anymore we have startups doing that anymore we have startups doing that anymore we have startups popping up in all directions with my popping up in all directions with my popping up in all directions with my especially was AI these days like it's a especially was AI these days like it's a especially was AI these days like it's a good example like good example like good example like they're just popping up with you know so they're just popping up with you know so they're just popping up with you know so many Fantastic ideas and then you look many Fantastic ideas and then you look many Fantastic ideas and then you look at the non-use case and you're just like at the non-use case and you're just like at the non-use case and you're just like um wait a second who wants that who um wait a second who wants that who um wait a second who wants that who needs that and and the other one is needs that and and the other one is needs that and and the other one is feasibility scalability it's it's feasibility scalability it's it's feasibility scalability it's it's something that's comes very often after something that's comes very often after something that's comes very often after the fact like you come with a SAS the fact like you come with a SAS the fact like you come with a SAS solution for iot that says well we can solution for iot that says well we can solution for iot that says well we can scale to two million devices it's for scale to two million devices it's for scale to two million devices it's for ACTC oh well they're going to have a 100 ACTC oh well they're going to have a 100 ACTC oh well they're going to have a 100 sensors only on that system why do you sensors only on that system why do you sensors only on that system why do you need two millions um why should they pay need two millions um why should they pay need two millions um why should they pay for that infrastructure and then the for that infrastructure and then the for that infrastructure and then the company building the the SAS realizes company building the the SAS realizes company building the the SAS realizes that they have cogs that they that they have cogs that they that they have cogs that they cannot they cannot actually reduce cannot they cannot actually reduce cannot they cannot actually reduce because they scaled that thing for because they scaled that thing for because they scaled that thing for something that is not aligned with the something that is not aligned with the something that is not aligned with the use cases yeah and if they had done that

use cases yeah and if they had done that use cases yeah and if they had done that marketer research at the beginning that marketer research at the beginning that marketer research at the beginning that might not be a net problem um I mean might not be a net problem um I mean might not be a net problem um I mean that's the question I'm asking SE I've that's the question I'm asking SE I've that's the question I'm asking SE I've been asking several time lately to to been asking several time lately to to been asking several time lately to to startups came to me asking me hey let's startups came to me asking me hey let's startups came to me asking me hey let's review the architecture wait a second review the architecture wait a second review the architecture wait a second why do you need to connect that thing to why do you need to connect that thing to why do you need to connect that thing to the cloud and have full-blown the cloud and have full-blown the cloud and have full-blown architecture here maybe you're better architecture here maybe you're better architecture here maybe you're better off with a box next to your devices that off with a box next to your devices that off with a box next to your devices that does the work right rather than does the work right rather than does the work right rather than connecting to the cloud and so on and connecting to the cloud and so on and connecting to the cloud and so on and you know like starting with a use Cas you know like starting with a use Cas you know like starting with a use Cas starting with the outcome starting with starting with the outcome starting with starting with the outcome starting with the problem that you're trying to the problem that you're trying to the problem that you're trying to solve could prevent all the rest the solve could prevent all the rest the solve could prevent all the rest the problem is time to Market time to you problem is time to Market time to you problem is time to Market time to you you don't want to be last in the game you don't want to be last in the game you don't want to be last in the game you want to be first at the risk of not you want to be first at the risk of not you want to be first at the risk of not being in the game at all or being on being in the game at all or being on being in the game at all or being on your own right yeah that's a good point your own right yeah that's a good point your own right yeah that's a good point that's a great point and and don't that's a great point and and don't that's a great point and and don't didn't happen it didn't happen to you as didn't happen it didn't happen to you as didn't happen it didn't happen to you as well that when you discover like a well that when you discover like a well that when you discover like a successful company then you discover successful company then you discover successful company then you discover that the technology sucks that it's just that the technology sucks that it's just that the technology sucks that it's just a bunch of PHP scripts that uh will not a bunch of PHP scripts that uh will not a bunch of PHP scripts that uh will not scale at all and uh yeah technology use scale at all and uh yeah technology use scale at all and uh yeah technology use like uh 2000 10 technology and but yeah like uh 2000 10 technology and but yeah like uh 2000 10 technology and but yeah it's super successful and everything it's super successful and everything it's super successful and everything works perfect and works perfect and works perfect and yeah because because super frustrating yeah because because super frustrating yeah because because super frustrating to discover this but yeah yeah Mark what to discover this but yeah yeah Mark what to discover this but yeah yeah Mark what did you what technologies did you use did you what technologies did you use did you what technologies did you use for the things that

I yeah we use um I yeah we use um nodejs uh mostly and for the front end nodejs uh mostly and for the front end nodejs uh mostly and for the front end we use angular I'm sure what version and we use angular I'm sure what version and we use angular I'm sure what version and then for databases we use Reed's then for databases we use Reed's then for databases we use Reed's Cassandra and mongod okay depending on Cassandra and mongod okay depending on Cassandra and mongod okay depending on the type of data so yeah but yeah at the type of data so yeah but yeah at the type of data so yeah but yeah at some point you start to have depth as as some point you start to have depth as as some point you start to have depth as as you develop a lot of features but you you develop a lot of features but you you develop a lot of features but you don't take care of yeah the the new don't take care of yeah the the new don't take care of yeah the the new versions and new versions and new versions and new feature feature feature right yeah Los lo used node.js for their right yeah Los lo used node.js for their right yeah Los lo used node.js for their platform as well and I think they were platform as well and I think they were platform as well and I think they were also using also using also using Cassandra Cassandra got really popular Cassandra Cassandra got really popular Cassandra Cassandra got really popular with a lot of people just because it with a lot of people just because it with a lot of people just because it could scale horizontally so easily you could scale horizontally so easily you could scale horizontally so easily you know know know but you have to yeah you have to take but you have to yeah you have to take but you have to yeah you have to take care a lot you have to do a lot of care a lot you have to do a lot of care a lot you have to do a lot of Maintenance to Cassandra to to have it Maintenance to Cassandra to to have it Maintenance to Cassandra to to have it uh scal to scale it successfully so it's uh scal to scale it successfully so it's uh scal to scale it successfully so it's not that easy yeah and I think yeah if not that easy yeah and I think yeah if not that easy yeah and I think yeah if you require uh their Engineers to help you require uh their Engineers to help you require uh their Engineers to help you I think fee it's like $5,000 per you I think fee it's like $5,000 per you I think fee it's like $5,000 per hour if I remember really if I yeah yeah hour if I remember really if I yeah yeah hour if I remember really if I yeah yeah so yeah we a cple that's their business so yeah we a cple that's their business so yeah we a cple that's their business model here's this free database that you model here's this free database that you model here's this free database that you can't figure out but we're gonna charge can't figure out but we're gonna charge can't figure out but we're gonna charge $5,000 an hour to tell you how to make $5,000 an hour to tell you how to make $5,000 an hour to tell you how to make it work yeah but this is the yeah this it work yeah but this is the yeah this it work yeah but this is the yeah this is the one of the business model of is the one of the business model of is the one of the business model of these open source databases right that's these open source databases right that's these open source databases right that's true because they're always struggling true because they're always struggling true because they're always struggling to find a a business model to survive

to find a a business model to survive to find a a business model to survive yeah and but that that actually ties yeah and but that that actually ties yeah and but that that actually ties into what we're talking about earlier on into what we're talking about earlier on into what we're talking about earlier on which is this notion of of having to which is this notion of of having to which is this notion of of having to handhold the customers after you deliver handhold the customers after you deliver handhold the customers after you deliver a technology or a a technology or a a technology or a solution and and certainly the the solution and and certainly the the solution and and certainly the the models from my perspective are evolving models from my perspective are evolving models from my perspective are evolving once again the pendulum like from the once again the pendulum like from the once again the pendulum like from the total DIY to we Tred the full saster key total DIY to we Tred the full saster key total DIY to we Tred the full saster key that just works in this generic for that just works in this generic for that just works in this generic for everything that the customer will be on everything that the customer will be on everything that the customer will be on their own to something that is in their own to something that is in their own to something that is in between which is about bunch of breaks between which is about bunch of breaks between which is about bunch of breaks more or less Advanced or or functional more or less Advanced or or functional more or less Advanced or or functional that you integrate and and the thing is that you integrate and and the thing is that you integrate and and the thing is that integration is still hard and that integration is still hard and that integration is still hard and requires maintenance required operation requires maintenance required operation requires maintenance required operation and so maybe maybe the model is and so maybe maybe the model is and so maybe maybe the model is something in between that that will be something in between that that will be something in between that that will be the most successful companies helping the most successful companies helping the most successful companies helping integrating beats and pieces from other integrating beats and pieces from other integrating beats and pieces from other companies that will just go all the way companies that will just go all the way companies that will just go all the way down to it works it's there it has apis down to it works it's there it has apis down to it works it's there it has apis it has documentation knock yourself out it has documentation knock yourself out it has documentation knock yourself out and then the integrator creates a a and then the integrator creates a a and then the integrator creates a a tailored solution for the customer tailored solution for the customer tailored solution for the customer and then helps the customer implement it and then helps the customer implement it and then helps the customer implement it and hold the hands for six months one and hold the hands for six months one and hold the hands for six months one year until operators then can just deal year until operators then can just deal year until operators then can just deal with it and and update it and manage it with it and and update it and manage it with it and and update it and manage it on their own and then onto the next on their own and then onto the next on their own and then onto the next customer I don't know I mean that might customer I don't know I mean that might customer I don't know I mean that might be this kind of model where you have be this kind of model where you have be this kind of model where you have this smooth integration plus you know this smooth integration plus you know this smooth integration plus you know handh holding until customer is handh holding until customer is handh holding until customer is autonomous on it is this mentality I autonomous on it is this mentality I autonomous on it is this mentality I don't know I think I don't know if it's don't know I think I don't know if it's don't know I think I don't know if it's only in Spain or not but our mentality

only in Spain or not but our mentality only in Spain or not but our mentality it's like as an Engineers I an engineer it's like as an Engineers I an engineer it's like as an Engineers I an engineer I can I can deal with this and during I can I can deal with this and during I can I can deal with this and during the weekend I can fix this it's going to the weekend I can fix this it's going to the weekend I can fix this it's going to work so that this is as well some of the work so that this is as well some of the work so that this is as well some of the feedback they got when feedback they got when feedback they got when selling platform to store selling platform to store selling platform to store data but but we're saying like they have data but but we're saying like they have data but but we're saying like they have a day job and someone was an engineer a day job and someone was an engineer a day job and someone was an engineer was working in a specific domain they was working in a specific domain they was working in a specific domain they are supposed to be working in that are supposed to be working in that are supposed to be working in that domain not in F well you're using tools domain not in F well you're using tools domain not in F well you're using tools like the example is the the guy was like the example is the the guy was like the example is the the guy was building a house is using tools if he building a house is using tools if he building a house is using tools if he can fix his own tools rather than go buy can fix his own tools rather than go buy can fix his own tools rather than go buy a new one but but he doesn't have time a new one but but he doesn't have time a new one but but he doesn't have time for that because he needs to build a for that because he needs to build a for that because he needs to build a house not to build a hammer and so he house not to build a hammer and so he house not to build a hammer and so he goes to a company who builds Hammers and goes to a company who builds Hammers and goes to a company who builds Hammers and buys one right and that's the same thing buys one right and that's the same thing buys one right and that's the same thing that's exactly the same thing if you that's exactly the same thing if you that's exactly the same thing if you think about it you're using the solution think about it you're using the solution think about it you're using the solution you're not here to fix it so yes you can you're not here to fix it so yes you can you're not here to fix it so yes you can do a quick dirty fix because you're an do a quick dirty fix because you're an do a quick dirty fix because you're an engineer or you're capable but the fix engineer or you're capable but the fix engineer or you're capable but the fix won't won't last very very long you need won't won't last very very long you need won't won't last very very long you need to update that thing you need to upgrade to update that thing you need to upgrade to update that thing you need to upgrade that thing and you need to go back to that thing and you need to go back to that thing and you need to go back to the company that sold it to you and the company that sold it to you and the company that sold it to you and eventually that new Hammer is electrical eventually that new Hammer is electrical eventually that new Hammer is electrical that new Hammer is this is that and then that new Hammer is this is that and then that new Hammer is this is that and then you evolve your solution and then you're you evolve your solution and then you're you evolve your solution and then you're more efficient you're more productive more efficient you're more productive more efficient you're more productive that's exactly the same thing why why that's exactly the same thing why why that's exactly the same thing why why are we complicating things it's just are we complicating things it's just are we complicating things it's just exactly the same thing set of tools yeah exactly the same thing set of tools yeah exactly the same thing set of tools yeah yeah you're right you're right so many yeah you're right you're right so many yeah you're right you're right so many iot platform companies startups and iot platform companies startups and iot platform companies startups and other ones they love they always put out

other ones they love they always put out other ones they love they always put out and I'm thinking of people I know they and I'm thinking of people I know they and I'm thinking of people I know they love to write articles that the build love to write articles that the build love to write articles that the build versus buy article you know should you versus buy article you know should you versus buy article you know should you build your own iot platform or should build your own iot platform or should build your own iot platform or should you buy it and of course the whole point you buy it and of course the whole point you buy it and of course the whole point of the article is to get you to buy of the article is to get you to buy of the article is to get you to buy their product and tell you how horrible their product and tell you how horrible their product and tell you how horrible it is for you to build it um and yet I it is for you to build it um and yet I it is for you to build it um and yet I kept seeing these articles all the time kept seeing these articles all the time kept seeing these articles all the time and I'm like they're really struggling and I'm like they're really struggling and I'm like they're really struggling and then I realized iot is just and then I realized iot is just and then I realized iot is just easy it's easy to build platforms the easy it's easy to build platforms the easy it's easy to build platforms the cloud part the platform part cloud part the platform part cloud part the platform part that's easy stuff that's the easiest that's easy stuff that's the easiest that's easy stuff that's the easiest part the hard part is the devices part the hard part is the devices part the hard part is the devices embedded development that's a small embedded development that's a small embedded development that's a small community of people getting stuff community of people getting stuff community of people getting stuff working on devices and updating and working on devices and updating and working on devices and updating and deploying and all that especially if deploying and all that especially if deploying and all that especially if it's outside and things that's the hard it's outside and things that's the hard it's outside and things that's the hard stuff building something I mean we've stuff building something I mean we've stuff building something I mean we've been building crap like that forever been building crap like that forever been building crap like that forever sending me data capturing data storing sending me data capturing data storing sending me data capturing data storing data analyzing data outcomes that's data analyzing data outcomes that's data analyzing data outcomes that's nothing new we've been doing that for nothing new we've been doing that for nothing new we've been doing that for decades and so maybe that in balen decades and so maybe that in balen decades and so maybe that in balen because I think we kept seeing over the because I think we kept seeing over the because I think we kept seeing over the years when you'd see like a pie chart years when you'd see like a pie chart years when you'd see like a pie chart from marketing about who the top players from marketing about who the top players from marketing about who the top players are in iot platforms there was this are in iot platforms there was this are in iot platforms there was this always this big wedge of other that was always this big wedge of other that was always this big wedge of other that was homegrown where people built it homegrown where people built it homegrown where people built it themselves and it was always the leader themselves and it was always the leader themselves and it was always the leader and we're like but they're probably and we're like but they're probably and we're like but they're probably building building building crap but they're probably saying now crap but they're probably saying now crap but they're probably saying now what we built was good enough what we what we built was good enough what we what we built was good enough what we needed you know and you're like but it

needed you know and you're like but it needed you know and you're like but it won't scale to 10 million messages per won't scale to 10 million messages per won't scale to 10 million messages per second they're like well we don't have second they're like well we don't have second they're like well we don't have that we just got a web that we just got a web that we just got a web server I think I think I explained this server I think I think I explained this server I think I think I explained this story here already but I remember one of story here already but I remember one of story here already but I remember one of the first leads we had at the thing iio the first leads we had at the thing iio the first leads we had at the thing iio was a thos company so I visited them was a thos company so I visited them was a thos company so I visited them because they P they contact me because because they P they contact me because because they P they contact me because they their platform didn't scale they they their platform didn't scale they they their platform didn't scale they they build their own uh database or data they build their own uh database or data they build their own uh database or data acquisition platform and dashboards and acquisition platform and dashboards and acquisition platform and dashboards and and was yeah they were having a problem and was yeah they were having a problem and was yeah they were having a problem so they test during a couple of weeks so they test during a couple of weeks so they test during a couple of weeks the things that I owe and then I went to the things that I owe and then I went to the things that I owe and then I went to Madrid to meet the CTO and he say wow Madrid to meet the CTO and he say wow Madrid to meet the CTO and he say wow this is exactly what need it's amazing this is exactly what need it's amazing this is exactly what need it's amazing but you know uh something that will cost but you know uh something that will cost but you know uh something that will cost me a few thousand Euros per month or me a few thousand Euros per month or me a few thousand Euros per month or dollars per month uh actually if if I we dollars per month uh actually if if I we dollars per month uh actually if if I we are raising couple of millions of are raising couple of millions of are raising couple of millions of dollars to build our own second uh iot dollars to build our own second uh iot dollars to build our own second uh iot platform instead of paying 2000s because platform instead of paying 2000s because platform instead of paying 2000s because if not my position so I will I will be if not my position so I will I will be if not my position so I will I will be in a in a position where what I say it's in a in a position where what I say it's in a in a position where what I say it's it's not relevant to the board members it's not relevant to the board members it's not relevant to the board members or to the CEO because they will not or to the CEO because they will not or to the CEO because they will not trust me for the next technical trust me for the next technical trust me for the next technical decisions I take if U because I will decisions I take if U because I will decisions I take if U because I will demonstrate that I was completely wrong demonstrate that I was completely wrong demonstrate that I was completely wrong every time that's every time that's every time that's interesting it was funny because I met interesting it was funny because I met interesting it was funny because I met the CEO some years after that and I the CEO some years after that and I the CEO some years after that and I asked hey how is it going and he told me asked hey how is it going and he told me asked hey how is it going and he told me you know we have three iot platforms now you know we have three iot platforms now you know we have three iot platforms now four products three iot platform

right well that that's to be fair that's right well that that's to be fair that's also a domain that is evolving so fast also a domain that is evolving so fast also a domain that is evolving so fast that catching up on everything is is that catching up on everything is is that catching up on everything is is hard and and you know being in touch hard and and you know being in touch hard and and you know being in touch with the the the reality of things what with the the the reality of things what with the the the reality of things what what I what I realized as well or think what I what I realized as well or think what I what I realized as well or think I realized um is that there are clusters I realized um is that there are clusters I realized um is that there are clusters of functionality or needs that you know of functionality or needs that you know of functionality or needs that you know will naturally will naturally will naturally like a magnet bring together interest like a magnet bring together interest like a magnet bring together interest and solution will start being built and solution will start being built and solution will start being built around that these days typically I see I around that these days typically I see I around that these days typically I see I see a lot of activity around normalizing see a lot of activity around normalizing see a lot of activity around normalizing iot data um if they're standard like is iot data um if they're standard like is iot data um if they're standard like is you in something and you know the right you in something and you know the right you in something and you know the right thing to do and you see boxes that come thing to do and you see boxes that come thing to do and you see boxes that come up with solution to man manage them that up with solution to man manage them that up with solution to man manage them that will connect to many types of field will connect to many types of field will connect to many types of field buses and gather the data normalize it buses and gather the data normalize it buses and gather the data normalize it for you and I'm seeing like these for you and I'm seeing like these for you and I'm seeing like these Solutions pop up boom boom boom new one Solutions pop up boom boom boom new one Solutions pop up boom boom boom new one new one new one that means there's a new one new one that means there's a new one new one that means there's a cluster there and at some point you know cluster there and at some point you know cluster there and at some point you know this problem is going to be solved and this problem is going to be solved and this problem is going to be solved and maybe companies would have been maybe companies would have been maybe companies would have been developing their own solution if they developing their own solution if they developing their own solution if they went with a smart architecture from the went with a smart architecture from the went with a smart architecture from the get-go they can say wait a second that get-go they can say wait a second that get-go they can say wait a second that DIY part we can replace with that third DIY part we can replace with that third DIY part we can replace with that third party solution you know and we stop party solution you know and we stop party solution you know and we stop developing and maintaining our own part developing and maintaining our own part developing and maintaining our own part here and replace with that other one and here and replace with that other one and here and replace with that other one and then we continue on with our own iot then we continue on with our own iot then we continue on with our own iot platform but that part is no longer on platform but that part is no longer on platform but that part is no longer on us because there's been a a another us because there's been a a another us because there's been a a another solution that is cheaper to maintain and solution that is cheaper to maintain and solution that is cheaper to maintain and use rather than continue maintaining or use rather than continue maintaining or use rather than continue maintaining or developing ourselves and and I feel that

developing ourselves and and I feel that developing ourselves and and I feel that the it's super important not to think the it's super important not to think the it's super important not to think about choosing the right technology from about choosing the right technology from about choosing the right technology from the get-go when you build this kind of the get-go when you build this kind of the get-go when you build this kind of endtoend solution but rather built it in endtoend solution but rather built it in endtoend solution but rather built it in a way that is more modular so that you a way that is more modular so that you a way that is more modular so that you can go and replay things but isn't that can go and replay things but isn't that can go and replay things but isn't that what we've been doing with software for what we've been doing with software for what we've been doing with software for a long time like when working with a long time like when working with a long time like when working with software you use libraries that you find software you use libraries that you find software you use libraries that you find online you buy whatever online you buy whatever online you buy whatever and someday you find a better one and so and someday you find a better one and so and someday you find a better one and so you decide to replace it but if you've you decide to replace it but if you've you decide to replace it but if you've not developed things in a way that is I not developed things in a way that is I not developed things in a way that is I don't want to go down that path of you don't want to go down that path of you don't want to go down that path of you know objectoriented and modular and know objectoriented and modular and know objectoriented and modular and whatever um if you didn't go that path whatever um if you didn't go that path whatever um if you didn't go that path and build a big monolithic solution that and build a big monolithic solution that and build a big monolithic solution that is like a a big plate of noodles under is like a a big plate of noodles under is like a a big plate of noodles under um you know you might be able to just um you know you might be able to just um you know you might be able to just evolve then you know to this customer evolve then you know to this customer evolve then you know to this customer you were talking to if they had built you were talking to if they had built you were talking to if they had built their three iot PL Platforms in a their three iot PL Platforms in a their three iot PL Platforms in a modular way maybe it would have been modular way maybe it would have been modular way maybe it would have been able to adopt part of the thing as IO or able to adopt part of the thing as IO or able to adopt part of the thing as IO or maybe integrate things IO into their maybe integrate things IO into their maybe integrate things IO into their broader solution as one part of it I broader solution as one part of it I broader solution as one part of it I don't know I mean you never know feels don't know I mean you never know feels don't know I mean you never know feels logical to me it feels like oh oh oh logical to me it feels like oh oh oh logical to me it feels like oh oh oh gosh you were hoping that people would gosh you were hoping that people would gosh you were hoping that people would be logical yeah so silly so silly silly be logical yeah so silly so silly silly be logical yeah so silly so silly silly my bad I heard an interesting quote last my bad I heard an interesting quote last my bad I heard an interesting quote last night so I was at a board meeting all night so I was at a board meeting all night so I was at a board meeting all day yesterday and then had a dinner day yesterday and then had a dinner day yesterday and then had a dinner reception uh at the University Club last reception uh at the University Club last reception uh at the University Club last night in Seattle which was pretty fancy night in Seattle which was pretty fancy night in Seattle which was pretty fancy nice and so you had a lot of you know nice and so you had a lot of you know nice and so you had a lot of you know the red bison group that I work with and

the red bison group that I work with and the red bison group that I work with and it's all you know networks and it's all you know networks and it's all you know networks and Commercial Real Estate and but and so Commercial Real Estate and but and so Commercial Real Estate and but and so there were some special guests there there were some special guests there there were some special guests there from big uh these real estate trusts and from big uh these real estate trusts and from big uh these real estate trusts and they own tons of skyscrapers and someone they own tons of skyscrapers and someone they own tons of skyscrapers and someone made an interesting comment about made an interesting comment about made an interesting comment about technology and buildings they were technology and buildings they were technology and buildings they were saying well they build these buildings saying well they build these buildings saying well they build these buildings with the thinking of a 50 to 70y year with the thinking of a 50 to 70y year with the thinking of a 50 to 70y year LIF span the problem is the technology LIF span the problem is the technology LIF span the problem is the technology is increasing 10x every 5 years and they is increasing 10x every 5 years and they is increasing 10x every 5 years and they don't know how to reconcile that and uh don't know how to reconcile that and uh don't know how to reconcile that and uh yeah you're using the word modular I yeah you're using the word modular I yeah you're using the word modular I think people architects who are think people architects who are think people architects who are designing skyscrapers or whatever designing skyscrapers or whatever designing skyscrapers or whatever buildings a football stadium I don't buildings a football stadium I don't buildings a football stadium I don't know they probably need to start know they probably need to start know they probably need to start thinking from the very beginning how can thinking from the very beginning how can thinking from the very beginning how can my building be modular so that as Tech my building be modular so that as Tech my building be modular so that as Tech advances over the years can plug in new advances over the years can plug in new advances over the years can plug in new things like you're saying Olivier uh things like you're saying Olivier uh things like you're saying Olivier uh into that so I don't fall behind so I into that so I don't fall behind so I into that so I don't fall behind so I don't have an ancient building that don't have an ancient building that don't have an ancient building that nobody wants to work in you know yeah nobody wants to work in you know yeah nobody wants to work in you know yeah yeah yeah and I have a good example of yeah yeah and I have a good example of yeah yeah and I have a good example of that story um buddy of mine was working that story um buddy of mine was working that story um buddy of mine was working for the company charge off uh part of for the company charge off uh part of for the company charge off uh part of the decision making for the new Campus the decision making for the new Campus the decision making for the new Campus of Microsoft like brand new buildings of Microsoft like brand new buildings of Microsoft like brand new buildings supposed to be you know the smart supposed to be you know the smart supposed to be you know the smart building surface of the smart buildings building surface of the smart buildings building surface of the smart buildings and um and it was telling me about and and um and it was telling me about and and um and it was telling me about and and we were discussing a lot because my and we were discussing a lot because my and we were discussing a lot because my team was in the middle of developing team was in the middle of developing team was in the middle of developing Azure digital twins uh and it was all Azure digital twins uh and it was all Azure digital twins uh and it was all about iot sensors making sense of data

about iot sensors making sense of data about iot sensors making sense of data putting everything in context and so on putting everything in context and so on putting everything in context and so on and and then we we we and and then we we we and and then we we we would yeah we were drinking a couple of would yeah we were drinking a couple of would yeah we were drinking a couple of beers where we're talking about that but beers where we're talking about that but beers where we're talking about that but still he was asking me questions about still he was asking me questions about still he was asking me questions about hey electric vehicles so I'm asked to to hey electric vehicles so I'm asked to to hey electric vehicles so I'm asked to to plan for having every single parking plan for having every single parking plan for having every single parking spot you know with a charging spot you know with a charging spot you know with a charging plug and and I want to challenge that plug and and I want to challenge that plug and and I want to challenge that because it's super expensive and it because it's super expensive and it because it's super expensive and it doesn't take into account the evolution doesn't take into account the evolution doesn't take into account the evolution of batteries and electric vehicle and of batteries and electric vehicle and of batteries and electric vehicle and the smart grades where you know we start the smart grades where you know we start the smart grades where you know we start building now we're planning for the building now we're planning for the building now we're planning for the buildings they're going to be delivered buildings they're going to be delivered buildings they're going to be delivered in five years from now five years from in five years from now five years from in five years from now five years from now do you think every single electric now do you think every single electric now do you think every single electric vehicle will need to be charged every vehicle will need to be charged every vehicle will need to be charged every time they're parked somewhere uh and time they're parked somewhere uh and time they're parked somewhere uh and also like maybe electricity f like it's also like maybe electricity f like it's also like maybe electricity f like it's free these days but if I have like free these days but if I have like free these days but if I have like 10,000 employees connecting all their 10,000 employees connecting all their 10,000 employees connecting all their electrical vehicle at the same time in electrical vehicle at the same time in electrical vehicle at the same time in my parking lots what's going to happen my parking lots what's going to happen my parking lots what's going to happen you know and he was asking the right you know and he was asking the right you know and he was asking the right questions because at the end of the day questions because at the end of the day questions because at the end of the day do you need to have that freaking you do you need to have that freaking you do you need to have that freaking you know know know infrastructure because once again we're infrastructure because once again we're infrastructure because once again we're back to that use case will the use case back to that use case will the use case back to that use case will the use case still be valid in X years from now right still be valid in X years from now right still be valid in X years from now right and is that something you want to invest and is that something you want to invest and is that something you want to invest today for that might be void in three today for that might be void in three today for that might be void in three years from now same thing for power over years from now same thing for power over years from now same thing for power over ethernet in buildings smart buildings ethernet in buildings smart buildings ethernet in buildings smart buildings power over ethernet that is Magic for power over ethernet that is Magic for power over ethernet that is Magic for you know electricians and for building you know electricians and for building you know electricians and for building builders because you bring less cables

builders because you bring less cables builders because you bring less cables right cat six cables that you've already right cat six cables that you've already right cat six cables that you've already got going to the building yeah and it DC got going to the building yeah and it DC got going to the building yeah and it DC it's DC power it's low voltage it is it it's DC power it's low voltage it is it it's DC power it's low voltage it is it is you're trying to go green the problem is you're trying to go green the problem is you're trying to go green the problem though is is it's all green it's all though is is it's all green it's all though is is it's all green it's all perfect the problem is now they're perfect the problem is now they're perfect the problem is now they're deploying existing HVAC systems in these deploying existing HVAC systems in these deploying existing HVAC systems in these buildings right things are on the market buildings right things are on the market buildings right things are on the market right now and most of them don't have right now and most of them don't have right now and most of them don't have support for power over ethernet they're support for power over ethernet they're support for power over ethernet they're not even connected right and so or they not even connected right and so or they not even connected right and so or they connect over things that don't go over connect over things that don't go over connect over things that don't go over ethernet you know they go over Cal what ethernet you know they go over Cal what ethernet you know they go over Cal what not and so so at the end of the day you not and so so at the end of the day you not and so so at the end of the day you know is it yes it's reasonable yes it's know is it yes it's reasonable yes it's know is it yes it's reasonable yes it's about environment and so on but then you about environment and so on but then you about environment and so on but then you have constraints um not just the use have constraints um not just the use have constraints um not just the use case you have the constraints of you case you have the constraints of you case you have the constraints of you know what you're working with today and know what you're working with today and know what you're working with today and it has to survive for 20 or 30 years and it has to survive for 20 or 30 years and it has to survive for 20 or 30 years and so it's it's a complex thing to so it's it's a complex thing to so it's it's a complex thing to architect for you know long living architect for you know long living architect for you know long living systems it's really not easy but systems it's really not easy but systems it's really not easy but thinking about the use case thinking thinking about the use case thinking thinking about the use case thinking about who's going to operate and what about who's going to operate and what about who's going to operate and what they need is is important I think it's they need is is important I think it's they need is is important I think it's key actually so we should just build key actually so we should just build key actually so we should just build Hardware as dlls that we can just drop Hardware as dlls that we can just drop Hardware as dlls that we can just drop in new in new in new ones and we have a universal plug-and ones and we have a universal plug-and ones and we have a universal plug-and playay model that's right all right I playay model that's right all right I playay model that's right all right I got to get going to another meeting I'm got to get going to another meeting I'm got to get going to another meeting I'm already late um uh thanks everybody already late um uh thanks everybody already late um uh thanks everybody thanks Olivier Mark good discussion um thanks Olivier Mark good discussion um thanks Olivier Mark good discussion um probably probably a bigger discussion to probably probably a bigger discussion to probably probably a bigger discussion to have about hardware and things and how have about hardware and things and how have about hardware and things and how they can evolve in time and not become they can evolve in time and not become they can evolve in time and not become obsolete through mod modularity uh

obsolete through mod modularity uh obsolete through mod modularity uh because gosh when you say you're gra a because gosh when you say you're gra a because gosh when you say you're gra a building that's going to last 50 or 70 building that's going to last 50 or 70 building that's going to last 50 or 70 years what really happens these years what really happens these years what really happens these buildings are here for hundreds of years buildings are here for hundreds of years buildings are here for hundreds of years sometimes you know I hope so you sometimes you know I hope so you sometimes you know I hope so you thousands thousands yes you need to be a thousands thousands yes you need to be a thousands thousands yes you need to be a Visionary yeah yeah exactly Visionary yeah yeah exactly Visionary yeah yeah exactly Mark I learned that in Europe only it's Mark I learned that in Europe only it's Mark I learned that in Europe only it's only in Europe they last s years only in Europe they last s years only in Europe they last s years Europe years down no no in Mexico you Europe years down no no in Mexico you Europe years down no no in Mexico you have buildings at last for thousand of have buildings at last for thousand of have buildings at last for thousand of years Mayan pyramids in Mexico that's years Mayan pyramids in Mexico that's years Mayan pyramids in Mexico that's true so they got it too it's not just true so they got it too it's not just true so they got it too it's not just the Romans who have ruined we come that the Romans who have ruined we come that the Romans who have ruined we come that as America or as America or as America or or yeah all right well everybody you can or yeah all right well everybody you can or yeah all right well everybody you can catch Us online at iot coffeed do.com catch Us online at iot coffeed do.com catch Us online at iot coffeed do.com check us on YouTube and wherever you get check us on YouTube and wherever you get check us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast thanks for much for joining your podcast thanks for much for joining your podcast thanks for much for joining us we will see you next week us we will see you next week us we will see you next week adios Rob see Mark by adios Rob see Mark by adios Rob see Mark by [Music]