IoT Coffee Talk: Episode 237 - Tech History Repeats Itself

[Music] [Music] Man in the Box St okay St okay [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] way to go way to go that was some good way to go way to go that was some good guitar and Bad karaoke there all at the guitar and Bad karaoke there all at the guitar and Bad karaoke there all at the same same same time time time [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] karaoke Happy Thanksgiving M New Year karaoke Happy Thanksgiving M New Year karaoke Happy Thanksgiving M New Year very New Year exactly yes I bought that Year exactly yes I bought that movie singles or oh Trading Places movie singles or oh Trading Places movie singles or oh Trading Places Trading Places yeah absolutely Trading Places yeah absolutely Trading Places yeah absolutely absolutely it was on sale for absolutely it was on sale for absolutely it was on sale for $4 on Apple TV $4 on Apple TV $4 on Apple TV yes yes will you be heading on does it yes yes will you be heading on does it yes yes will you be heading on does it mean that you bought this movie on Apple mean that you bought this movie on Apple mean that you bought this movie on Apple TV what does it mean physically speaking TV what does it mean physically speaking TV what does it mean physically speaking what do you mean doesn't really own it

what do you mean doesn't really own it what do you mean doesn't really own it yeah yeah you're I'm renting it uh for yeah yeah you're I'm renting it uh for yeah yeah you're I'm renting it uh for perpetuity oh wow it's forever infinite perpetuity oh wow it's forever infinite perpetuity oh wow it's forever infinite like yeah for Infinity for till the next like yeah for Infinity for till the next like yeah for Infinity for till the next asteroid hits our planet and wipes all asteroid hits our planet and wipes all asteroid hits our planet and wipes all Humanity off and Leonard you need to Humanity off and Leonard you need to Humanity off and Leonard you need to switch your microphone from music to switch your microphone from music to switch your microphone from music to voice oh really see he see he Debbie hey Debbie hi there wow on video today there wow on video today yeah yeah we're trying to deal with yeah yeah we're trying to deal with yeah yeah we're trying to deal with technical difficulties live so hey Talk technical difficulties live so hey Talk technical difficulties live so hey Talk Amongst yourself maybe welcome our iot Amongst yourself maybe welcome our iot Amongst yourself maybe welcome our iot coffee talk folks welcome welcome to iot coffee talk folks welcome welcome to iot coffee talk folks welcome welcome to iot Coffee Talk hope everybody in the Coffee Talk hope everybody in the Coffee Talk hope everybody in the Estados unitos had a great Thanksgiving Estados unitos had a great Thanksgiving Estados unitos had a great Thanksgiving you know with lots of turkey and you know with lots of turkey and you know with lots of turkey and dressing and gravy and maybe mash dressing and gravy and maybe mash dressing and gravy and maybe mash potatoes and cranberries and blah blah potatoes and cranberries and blah blah potatoes and cranberries and blah blah blah blah and I made a cherry pie so blah blah and I made a cherry pie so blah blah and I made a cherry pie so there's that and you know it's really there's that and you know it's really there's that and you know it's really important to know about this cherry pie important to know about this cherry pie important to know about this cherry pie unlike most cherry pies I use kind of unlike most cherry pies I use kind of unlike most cherry pies I use kind of the sour pitted cherries you know that the sour pitted cherries you know that the sour pitted cherries you know that are really tart you know normally you're are really tart you know normally you're are really tart you know normally you're thinking of sweet cherries but the thinking of sweet cherries but the thinking of sweet cherries but the recipe has like a cup and a half of recipe has like a cup and a half of recipe has like a cup and a half of sugar and some cinnamon stuff like that

sugar and some cinnamon stuff like that sugar and some cinnamon stuff like that and so I think the sweet and sour kind and so I think the sweet and sour kind and so I think the sweet and sour kind of go together and it makes a unique of go together and it makes a unique of go together and it makes a unique tasting Cherry Pie and I know that's tasting Cherry Pie and I know that's tasting Cherry Pie and I know that's what everybody cares about this morning what everybody cares about this morning what everybody cares about this morning after Thanksgiving yeah do do you put after Thanksgiving yeah do do you put after Thanksgiving yeah do do you put pork in it or pork in it or pork in it or did you say Pork yeah sweet and sour did you say Pork yeah sweet and sour did you say Pork yeah sweet and sour pork sounds like a so hey everyone welcome to iot Coffee a so hey everyone welcome to iot Coffee Talk uh and Happy Talk uh and Happy Talk uh and Happy Thanksgiving um you know what oh yes and Thanksgiving um you know what oh yes and Thanksgiving um you know what oh yes and we appreciate your viewership by the way we appreciate your viewership by the way we appreciate your viewership by the way through almost five years going on five through almost five years going on five through almost five years going on five years going strong we are going to years going strong we are going to years going strong we are going to consume as as consume as as consume as as much uh YouTube much uh YouTube much uh YouTube storage okay as possible because you storage okay as possible because you storage okay as possible because you know we have these really long episodes know we have these really long episodes know we have these really long episodes that take up you know terabytes that take up you know terabytes that take up you know terabytes eventually we're going to get to eventually we're going to get to eventually we're going to get to pedabytes of iot coffee pedabytes of iot coffee pedabytes of iot coffee talk which someone's going to try to talk which someone's going to try to talk which someone's going to try to train a model on and it's going to be train a model on and it's going to be train a model on and it's going to be Insanity it's going to be the worst Insanity it's going to be the worst Insanity it's going to be the worst llm ever llm ever llm ever created right what if what if we tried created right what if what if we tried created right what if what if we tried to train a model on our videos ourselves to train a model on our videos ourselves to train a model on our videos ourselves and see what comes I mean you know I and see what comes I mean you know I and see what comes I mean you know I think it would look like about 99% of think it would look like about 99% of think it would look like about 99% of the crap that we see that's geni the crap that we see that's geni the crap that we see that's geni generated um clips and could be the generated um clips and could be the generated um clips and could be the gateway to the Future yeah you never gateway to the Future yeah you never gateway to the Future yeah you never know it could be you never know got it

know it could be you never know got it know it could be you never know got it but download llama see what happens you know yes uh llama see what happens you know yes uh and so hey uh we have to give a shout and so hey uh we have to give a shout and so hey uh we have to give a shout out to elevate our kids we have a out to elevate our kids we have a out to elevate our kids we have a donation drive going on right now we're donation drive going on right now we're donation drive going on right now we're trying to raise a modest trying to raise a modest trying to raise a modest $25,000 to get laptops and connectivity $25,000 to get laptops and connectivity $25,000 to get laptops and connectivity to Children K through to Children K through to Children K through 12 who live in the digital 12 who live in the digital 12 who live in the digital divide and there seems to be this divide and there seems to be this divide and there seems to be this persistent issue with digital divides persistent issue with digital divides persistent issue with digital divides and we're hoping that your donations and we're hoping that your donations and we're hoping that your donations your generosity will help bridge that your generosity will help bridge that your generosity will help bridge that digital divide and so just go to digital divide and so just go to digital divide and so just go to www. elevat our kids.org and make a www. elevat our kids.org and make a www. elevat our kids.org and make a donation it's really easy and if you're donation it's really easy and if you're donation it's really easy and if you're not into charity in this giving season not into charity in this giving season not into charity in this giving season but you are into fashion you can but you are into fashion you can but you are into fashion you can indirectly contribute and show love to indirectly contribute and show love to indirectly contribute and show love to humanity by buy one of these iot Coffee humanity by buy one of these iot Coffee humanity by buy one of these iot Coffee Talk merch merch yes you you can find it Talk merch merch yes you you can find it Talk merch merch yes you you can find it on the W or on the elevator kids.org on the W or on the elevator kids.org on the W or on the elevator kids.org website and we hope you'll donate and website and we hope you'll donate and website and we hope you'll donate and hopefully this year we'll meet our hopefully this year we'll meet our hopefully this year we'll meet our donation Target right any minute yes donation Target right any minute yes donation Target right any minute yes yeah and the donations are rolling in yeah and the donations are rolling in yeah and the donations are rolling in that which is a great thing you don't that which is a great thing you don't that which is a great thing you don't have to wait till you come to our live

have to wait till you come to our live have to wait till you come to our live eras tour concert for coffee talk to buy eras tour concert for coffee talk to buy eras tour concert for coffee talk to buy the merch at the concert venue um you the merch at the concert venue um you the merch at the concert venue um you can do it now online but then you tell can do it now online but then you tell can do it now online but then you tell your friends you got it at the your friends you got it at the your friends you got it at the show um and how out of control it was show um and how out of control it was show um and how out of control it was and you had floor seats you know so you and you had floor seats you know so you and you had floor seats you know so you got to be really up close with got to be really up close with got to be really up close with Mark he was like right there on stage Mark he was like right there on stage Mark he was like right there on stage you know yeah gigantic as ever yeah yeah you know yeah gigantic as ever yeah yeah you know yeah gigantic as ever yeah yeah Debbie have you ever met Mark Debbie have you ever met Mark Debbie have you ever met Mark before uh I don't think so person you before uh I don't think so person you before uh I don't think so person you know what I haven't met you in person know what I haven't met you in person know what I haven't met you in person yet which is incredible after all these yet which is incredible after all these yet which is incredible after all these years I know isn't that crazy is crazy years I know isn't that crazy is crazy years I know isn't that crazy is crazy it's it's a sin quite honestly it's it's it's a sin quite honestly it's it's it's a sin quite honestly it's wrong on many many levels what we should wrong on many many levels what we should wrong on many many levels what we should do is we just hop on airplanes and we do is we just hop on airplanes and we do is we just hop on airplanes and we meet at some centrally located meet at some centrally located meet at some centrally located airport yeah yeah yeah know you know airport yeah yeah yeah know you know airport yeah yeah yeah know you know since this is a tech oriented show since this is a tech oriented show since this is a tech oriented show there's stories you know like when you there's stories you know like when you there's stories you know like when you hear about like the whole accidental hear about like the whole accidental hear about like the whole accidental Empires or Triumph for the Nerds and how Empires or Triumph for the Nerds and how Empires or Triumph for the Nerds and how things went back in the 70s and 80s with things went back in the 70s and 80s with things went back in the 70s and 80s with the PC Revolution and you know you Bill the PC Revolution and you know you Bill the PC Revolution and you know you Bill Gates over here and Steve Jobs over here Gates over here and Steve Jobs over here Gates over here and Steve Jobs over here so any anywh who I hear rumors that back so any anywh who I hear rumors that back so any anywh who I hear rumors that back in the day you know IBM was the biggest in the day you know IBM was the biggest in the day you know IBM was the biggest player in the world right um by far and player in the world right um by far and player in the world right um by far and so you had these little upstart so you had these little upstart so you had these little upstart companies Microsoft and compact computer companies Microsoft and compact computer companies Microsoft and compact computer and Intel with their chips and those

and Intel with their chips and those and Intel with their chips and those Andy Gro from Intel Rod Canyon from Andy Gro from Intel Rod Canyon from Andy Gro from Intel Rod Canyon from compact computer and Bill Gates or compact computer and Bill Gates or compact computer and Bill Gates or Microsoft I don't know if it was like on Microsoft I don't know if it was like on Microsoft I don't know if it was like on a monthly basis but on some frequency a monthly basis but on some frequency a monthly basis but on some frequency they literally would just secretly pick they literally would just secretly pick they literally would just secretly pick an airport and all of them would fly an airport and all of them would fly an airport and all of them would fly from their home locations to that from their home locations to that from their home locations to that airport to meet to talk about to airport to meet to talk about to airport to meet to talk about to conspire if you will of how they're conspire if you will of how they're conspire if you will of how they're going to take down IBM and take over going to take down IBM and take over going to take down IBM and take over this whole computer Revolution which is this whole computer Revolution which is this whole computer Revolution which is really interesting to me to think about really interesting to me to think about really interesting to me to think about them having powwows and trying to figure them having powwows and trying to figure them having powwows and trying to figure that stuff out you know that stuff out you know that stuff out you know yeah that is interesting yeah because yeah that is interesting yeah because yeah that is interesting yeah because you know they were all you know in in you know they were all you know in in you know they were all you know in in the shadow of IBM at the time right you the shadow of IBM at the time right you the shadow of IBM at the time right you know yeah I mean in a way that you can know yeah I mean in a way that you can know yeah I mean in a way that you can kind of kind of kind of see the PayPal Mafia kind of doing the see the PayPal Mafia kind of doing the see the PayPal Mafia kind of doing the same thing they're all interconnected same thing they're all interconnected same thing they're all interconnected and I'm sure they talk to each other all and I'm sure they talk to each other all and I'm sure they talk to each other all the time they have huge amounts of the time they have huge amounts of the time they have huge amounts of capital which is a different capital which is a different capital which is a different situation um but pretty interesting situation um but pretty interesting situation um but pretty interesting stuff you know yeah yeah it is stuff you know yeah yeah it is stuff you know yeah yeah it is although I I don't see you know I I although I I don't see you know I I although I I don't see you know I I listen to an listen to an listen to an entire talk actually it was a lecture entire talk actually it was a lecture entire talk actually it was a lecture that Dylan Patel I don't know if you that Dylan Patel I don't know if you that Dylan Patel I don't know if you guys know who he is he is the founder of guys know who he is he is the founder of guys know who he is he is the founder of semi analyst he's blowing up in the Gen semi analyst he's blowing up in the Gen semi analyst he's blowing up in the Gen supercomputing world right he gave a supercomputing world right he gave a supercomputing world right he gave a talk at um at talk at um at talk at um at Stanford uh

Stanford uh Stanford uh so you know to a class about gen so you know to a class about gen so you know to a class about gen supercomputing and it was interesting supercomputing and it was interesting supercomputing and it was interesting because you go walk into that bubble it because you go walk into that bubble it because you go walk into that bubble it just looks incredible what's happening just looks incredible what's happening just looks incredible what's happening right and the scale that people are right and the scale that people are right and the scale that people are talking about in terms of the Computing talking about in terms of the Computing talking about in terms of the Computing the energy requirements the XYZ about of the energy requirements the XYZ about of the energy requirements the XYZ about of all this stuff related to generative AI all this stuff related to generative AI all this stuff related to generative AI it's amazing but at the end of that it's amazing but at the end of that it's amazing but at the end of that whole session that he whole session that he whole session that he gives if you step outside of the bubble gives if you step outside of the bubble gives if you step outside of the bubble you really ask the question why you really ask the question why you really ask the question why you know and why are we why are they you know and why are we why are they you know and why are we why are they building these massive models and for building these massive models and for building these massive models and for who because you know what's absolutely who because you know what's absolutely who because you know what's absolutely clear is that these no matter how much clear is that these no matter how much clear is that these no matter how much you scale these models the model okay it you scale these models the model okay it you scale these models the model okay it doesn't get better they're all these doesn't get better they're all these doesn't get better they're all these mechan you know now what they're they're mechan you know now what they're they're mechan you know now what they're they're coming up with all kinds of new you know coming up with all kinds of new you know coming up with all kinds of new you know layered layered layered Concepts they're they're there to Concepts they're they're there to Concepts they're they're there to address the deficiencies and limitations address the deficiencies and limitations address the deficiencies and limitations of the actual technology itself s they of the actual technology itself s they of the actual technology itself s they don't they only require more and more don't they only require more and more don't they only require more and more and more compute with diminishing and more compute with diminishing and more compute with diminishing improvements uh with each you know um improvements uh with each you know um improvements uh with each you know um cycle of quote unquote Innovation and so cycle of quote unquote Innovation and so cycle of quote unquote Innovation and so who's going to benefit for all this who's going to benefit for all this who's going to benefit for all this stuff and it really makes you wonder stuff and it really makes you wonder stuff and it really makes you wonder right and what are these guys actually right and what are these guys actually right and what are these guys actually pursuing if not like massive Computing pursuing if not like massive Computing pursuing if not like massive Computing for themselves like a small community of

for themselves like a small community of for themselves like a small community of of very rich people who are hoping of very rich people who are hoping of very rich people who are hoping they're going to have an edge over they're going to have an edge over they're going to have an edge over everyone else right uh and maybe that's everyone else right uh and maybe that's everyone else right uh and maybe that's the IBM that's that new IBM that's being the IBM that's that new IBM that's being the IBM that's that new IBM that's being built up right because IBM got to become built up right because IBM got to become built up right because IBM got to become that Behemoth somehow right and for some that Behemoth somehow right and for some that Behemoth somehow right and for some reason and I think it was because they reason and I think it was because they reason and I think it was because they tapped into a very very premium tapped into a very very premium tapped into a very very premium exclusive um very exclusive um very exclusive um very expensive uh expensive uh expensive uh technology that might have given them an technology that might have given them an technology that might have given them an edge or it did give them an edge you edge or it did give them an edge you edge or it did give them an edge you could you could also say they had a could you could also say they had a could you could also say they had a first mover Advantage just in computers first mover Advantage just in computers first mover Advantage just in computers in general you know in mainframes that's in general you know in mainframes that's in general you know in mainframes that's true back in the day you know there true back in the day you know there true back in the day you know there weren't a lot of companies building big weren't a lot of companies building big weren't a lot of companies building big computers way way way back if you go computers way way way back if you go computers way way way back if you go back to the 60s the 50s the 40s um you back to the 60s the 50s the 40s um you back to the 60s the 50s the 40s um you know and so the handful just like you know and so the handful just like you know and so the handful just like you know you every every new product know you every every new product know you every every new product category Revolution when it happens it category Revolution when it happens it category Revolution when it happens it always starts off you know lots of always starts off you know lots of always starts off you know lots of players and then it consolidates down um players and then it consolidates down um players and then it consolidates down um it'd be interesting to know if there was it'd be interesting to know if there was it'd be interesting to know if there was such a thing in the world the earliest such a thing in the world the earliest such a thing in the world the earliest days of IBM you know IBM was totally days of IBM you know IBM was totally days of IBM you know IBM was totally intertwined with the government you know intertwined with the government you know intertwined with the government you know um in the early early days um but like um in the early early days um but like um in the early early days um but like when that the whole when the PC when that the whole when the PC when that the whole when the PC Revolution happened you know we used to Revolution happened you know we used to Revolution happened you know we used to have dozens maybe hundreds of different have dozens maybe hundreds of different have dozens maybe hundreds of different PC PC PC makers um all going after it you know makers um all going after it you know makers um all going after it you know it's like I'm sure Mark still has his it's like I'm sure Mark still has his it's like I'm sure Mark still has his Osborne computer and Debbie probably has Osborne computer and Debbie probably has Osborne computer and Debbie probably has her Commodore 64 you

her Commodore 64 you her Commodore 64 you know uh there was but I'm start an IBM know uh there was but I'm start an IBM know uh there was but I'm start an IBM yeah yeah yeah and so yeah just so just yeah yeah yeah and so yeah just so just yeah yeah yeah and so yeah just so just so many players and then you see so many players and then you see so many players and then you see consolidation um but IBM's early but consolidation um but IBM's early but consolidation um but IBM's early but obviously there's so many you know obviously there's so many you know obviously there's so many you know there's so many cautionary tales to there's so many cautionary tales to there's so many cautionary tales to learn from this you know because IBM learn from this you know because IBM learn from this you know because IBM ultimately collapsed and became a you ultimately collapsed and became a you ultimately collapsed and became a you know irrel semi irrelevant company you know irrel semi irrelevant company you know irrel semi irrelevant company you know um in the early 90s and so it's know um in the early 90s and so it's know um in the early 90s and so it's like why why did that happen what did like why why did that happen what did like why why did that happen what did they see coming you know you know what I they see coming you know you know what I they see coming you know you know what I know I sound like a broken record I know I sound like a broken record I know I sound like a broken record I sound like the great historian of tech sound like the great historian of tech sound like the great historian of tech but I love teaching history and there's but I love teaching history and there's but I love teaching history and there's all this stuff and these all these all this stuff and these all these all this stuff and these all these documentaries are so interesting that documentaries are so interesting that documentaries are so interesting that you can get you know so I would highly you can get you know so I would highly you can get you know so I would highly recommend so Leonard was talking about recommend so Leonard was talking about recommend so Leonard was talking about how he bought a video on Apple TV you how he bought a video on Apple TV you how he bought a video on Apple TV you can also go check out silicon Cowboys can also go check out silicon Cowboys can also go check out silicon Cowboys you can buy it for probably just a few you can buy it for probably just a few you can buy it for probably just a few dollars on Apple TV or somewhere else dollars on Apple TV or somewhere else dollars on Apple TV or somewhere else that's about Rod Canyon and the guys who that's about Rod Canyon and the guys who that's about Rod Canyon and the guys who started compact computer those guys were started compact computer those guys were started compact computer those guys were Texas Instruments Texas Instruments Texas Instruments engineers and and very just like you engineers and and very just like you engineers and and very just like you know remember when Steve Jobs and wnac know remember when Steve Jobs and wnac know remember when Steve Jobs and wnac got together remember wnc was so got together remember wnc was so got together remember wnc was so paranoid when they're building the apple paranoid when they're building the apple paranoid when they're building the apple one on a piece of plywood and all that one on a piece of plywood and all that one on a piece of plywood and all that kind of stuff and was was really he was kind of stuff and was was really he was kind of stuff and was was really he was a real rule follower guy right and he a real rule follower guy right and he a real rule follower guy right and he was and and remember he went and got was and and remember he went and got was and and remember he went and got permission he had to he felt that permission he had to he felt that permission he had to he felt that because he was working for HP at the because he was working for HP at the because he was working for HP at the time and he went to say hey we're time and he went to say hey we're time and he went to say hey we're building this is does HP want a computer building this is does HP want a computer building this is does HP want a computer do they ever want anything like this and do they ever want anything like this and do they ever want anything like this and you know they said no we don't want it

you know they said no we don't want it you know they said no we don't want it you're good to go but he was so paranoid you're good to go but he was so paranoid you're good to go but he was so paranoid about that about getting permission to about that about getting permission to about that about getting permission to do that and you saw other players at the do that and you saw other players at the do that and you saw other players at the same time you know going in these same time you know going in these same time you know going in these different and so these Engineers Rod different and so these Engineers Rod different and so these Engineers Rod Canyon and a couple other engineers at Canyon and a couple other engineers at Canyon and a couple other engineers at at Texas Instruments they did the same at Texas Instruments they did the same at Texas Instruments they did the same thing they had this vision of a IBM thing they had this vision of a IBM thing they had this vision of a IBM compatible computer but it was portable compatible computer but it was portable compatible computer but it was portable but they went to their bosses at TI at but they went to their bosses at TI at but they went to their bosses at TI at the time and ask the same questions and the time and ask the same questions and the time and ask the same questions and the guys at TI is like ah well no one's the guys at TI is like ah well no one's the guys at TI is like ah well no one's ever going to want something like that h ever going to want something like that h ever going to want something like that h you know which is great which is i you know which is great which is i you know which is great which is i that's why I love the history of stuff that's why I love the history of stuff that's why I love the history of stuff because the either the ni naivity or you because the either the ni naivity or you because the either the ni naivity or you know arrogance or the whatever of know arrogance or the whatever of know arrogance or the whatever of different people how they don't see the different people how they don't see the different people how they don't see the future that could that could be some future that could that could be some future that could that could be some people see it and they have to have people see it and they have to have people see it and they have to have persistence to stay after it you know persistence to stay after it you know persistence to stay after it you know and so compact starts building their and so compact starts building their and so compact starts building their stuff and they become the they created stuff and they become the they created stuff and they become the they created the Clone computer industry because they the Clone computer industry because they the Clone computer industry because they reverse engineered the IBM bios right reverse engineered the IBM bios right reverse engineered the IBM bios right yeah um CU if you were all remember kids yeah um CU if you were all remember kids yeah um CU if you were all remember kids when you were not alive yet when you when you were not alive yet when you when you were not alive yet when you would buy software on your little floppy would buy software on your little floppy would buy software on your little floppy discs it would say for IBM or 100% discs it would say for IBM or 100% discs it would say for IBM or 100% compatible IBM compatible IBM compatible IBM computers and that and what they're computers and that and what they're computers and that and what they're referring to is if you were using what referring to is if you were using what referring to is if you were using what you would call a clone computer which you would call a clone computer which you would call a clone computer which you don't probably know what that term you don't probably know what that term you don't probably know what that term means if you were using a Dell or a means if you were using a Dell or a means if you were using a Dell or a compact or a Toshiba or whatever it had compact or a Toshiba or whatever it had compact or a Toshiba or whatever it had to have a bios that was identical and

to have a bios that was identical and to have a bios that was identical and compatible with the IBM bias because compatible with the IBM bias because compatible with the IBM bias because that was IBM controlled world back then that was IBM controlled world back then that was IBM controlled world back then but you know in the end what happened so but you know in the end what happened so but you know in the end what happened so that that opens an interesting that that opens an interesting that that opens an interesting discussion of how do you think today if discussion of how do you think today if discussion of how do you think today if we go to the embedded wall with arm r we go to the embedded wall with arm r we go to the embedded wall with arm r five and so on so or even Nvidia that five and so on so or even Nvidia that five and so on so or even Nvidia that I'm still not sure if they use arm or I'm still not sure if they use arm or I'm still not sure if they use arm or not gpus or not gpus or not gpus or processors so who who decides what uh processors so who who decides what uh processors so who who decides what uh instructions need to support the next instructions need to support the next instructions need to support the next processor or not a great question so so processor or not a great question so so processor or not a great question so so what patterns or what are the signs that what patterns or what are the signs that what patterns or what are the signs that they follow to to decide okay in 2026 they follow to to decide okay in 2026 they follow to to decide okay in 2026 the processors will need to make these the processors will need to make these the processors will need to make these instructions faster than the for all you instructions faster than the for all you instructions faster than the for all you know for all you know there could be know for all you know there could be know for all you know there could be some hackers doing a startup in Valencia some hackers doing a startup in Valencia some hackers doing a startup in Valencia and they've reverse engineered Cuda and and they've reverse engineered Cuda and and they've reverse engineered Cuda and building their own way open source way building their own way open source way building their own way open source way to program Nvidia gpus to accelerate AI to program Nvidia gpus to accelerate AI to program Nvidia gpus to accelerate AI I don't know but no but you're right who I don't know but no but you're right who I don't know but no but you're right who who's who are we all copying or who's who's who are we all copying or who's who's who are we all copying or who's the leader that we're trying to emulate the leader that we're trying to emulate the leader that we're trying to emulate or you know or are you the the woman in or you know or are you the the woman in or you know or are you the the woman in the Apple computer and she's spinning the Apple computer and she's spinning the Apple computer and she's spinning around and throws the hammer and around and throws the hammer and around and throws the hammer and destroys everything in 1984 and says destroys everything in 1984 and says destroys everything in 1984 and says we're not going to play ball with you we're not going to play ball with you we're not going to play ball with you guys that's super inter at the same time guys that's super inter at the same time guys that's super inter at the same time you've got AMD you know a distant second you've got AMD you know a distant second you've got AMD you know a distant second place in this race what are they using place in this race what are they using place in this race what are they using to accelerate AI did they I because and to accelerate AI did they I because and to accelerate AI did they I because and I actually don't know did they build I actually don't know did they build I actually don't know did they build their own software or is there a more

their own software or is there a more their own software or is there a more open way to train models or train ml open way to train models or train ml open way to train models or train ml stuff like we've been doing an iot stuff like we've been doing an iot stuff like we've been doing an iot forever using an AMD uh forever using an AMD uh forever using an AMD uh GPU AKA aka the ATI acquisition to get GPU AKA aka the ATI acquisition to get GPU AKA aka the ATI acquisition to get graphics graphics graphics cards way back when yeah you know I I cards way back when yeah you know I I cards way back when yeah you know I I guess it really is a battle between guess it really is a battle between guess it really is a battle between Nvidia and nvidia's stack and then sort Nvidia and nvidia's stack and then sort Nvidia and nvidia's stack and then sort of this fragmented open we don't see you of this fragmented open we don't see you of this fragmented open we don't see you I don't hear you well on art oh really I don't hear you well on art oh really I don't hear you well on art oh really sad because you're telling super sad because you're telling super sad because you're telling super interesting things interesting things interesting things and hold that microphone and close you and hold that microphone and close you and hold that microphone and close you gu you guys couldn't hear anything that gu you guys couldn't hear anything that gu you guys couldn't hear anything that I said no we heard it it just goes in I said no we heard it it just goes in I said no we heard it it just goes in and out yeah that's really terrible it's and out yeah that's really terrible it's and out yeah that's really terrible it's like big freaking mic I I I don't get it like big freaking mic I I I don't get it like big freaking mic I I I don't get it we need to see the mic probably in the we need to see the mic probably in the we need to see the mic probably in the in the window in our in the window in our in the window in our screen I'm just gonna yeah yeah pull it screen I'm just gonna yeah yeah pull it screen I'm just gonna yeah yeah pull it close it's for a cosmetic purposes only close it's for a cosmetic purposes only close it's for a cosmetic purposes only yeah no I mean it really is turning into yeah no I mean it really is turning into yeah no I mean it really is turning into this battle um between Nvidia and the this battle um between Nvidia and the this battle um between Nvidia and the rest of the world right um and but a lot rest of the world right um and but a lot rest of the world right um and but a lot of a lot of the attention is really of a lot of the attention is really of a lot of the attention is really still stuck still stuck still stuck on on um all this generative Ai on on um all this generative Ai on on um all this generative Ai supercomputing and how they have they do supercomputing and how they have they do supercomputing and how they have they do have a highly integrated stack it's very have a highly integrated stack it's very have a highly integrated stack it's very difficult for everyone to uh come to difficult for everyone to uh come to difficult for everyone to uh come to Market with something that um matches

Market with something that um matches Market with something that um matches number one the flexibility of that stack number one the flexibility of that stack number one the flexibility of that stack yeah the scalability of that stack and yeah the scalability of that stack and yeah the scalability of that stack and you know you hear Jensen talk about all you know you hear Jensen talk about all you know you hear Jensen talk about all the time that nvidia's ecosystem and and the time that nvidia's ecosystem and and the time that nvidia's ecosystem and and stack is general purpose right and a lot stack is general purpose right and a lot stack is general purpose right and a lot of that is attributed to to Cuda but I of that is attributed to to Cuda but I of that is attributed to to Cuda but I think that there's it's also a bit of a think that there's it's also a bit of a think that there's it's also a bit of a misconception because you also have like misconception because you also have like misconception because you also have like um you know standards like um you know C um you know standards like um you know C um you know standards like um you know C XL and and other and you know like UA uh XL and and other and you know like UA uh XL and and other and you know like UA uh UA link so a lot of these Open Standards UA link so a lot of these Open Standards UA link so a lot of these Open Standards that the other players are trying to that the other players are trying to that the other players are trying to drive that address you know compute drive that address you know compute drive that address you know compute interconnect you know like as well as uh interconnect you know like as well as uh interconnect you know like as well as uh you know you have Intel with their open you know you have Intel with their open you know you have Intel with their open API which is taking really long time to API which is taking really long time to API which is taking really long time to to take root and start to um no you're to take root and start to um no you're to take root and start to um no you're absolutely right all these artifacts absolutely right all these artifacts absolutely right all these artifacts yeah that they working on to provide an yeah that they working on to provide an yeah that they working on to provide an open alternative but then there's always open alternative but then there's always open alternative but then there's always the politics right of open and that the politics right of open and that the politics right of open and that slows everything down while nid is just slows everything down while nid is just slows everything down while nid is just like right steamrolling ahead just and like right steamrolling ahead just and like right steamrolling ahead just and you know whing everything in their path you know whing everything in their path you know whing everything in their path I I think speaking of open here's the I I think speaking of open here's the I I think speaking of open here's the funniest thing I saw this week related funniest thing I saw this week related funniest thing I saw this week related to open anything you may have seen this to open anything you may have seen this to open anything you may have seen this on the interwebs the most open what yes are

interwebs the most open what yes are they talking about Windows they're they talking about Windows they're they talking about Windows they're talking about Windows so you know this talking about Windows so you know this talking about Windows so you know this last week you know Leonard I think you last week you know Leonard I think you last week you know Leonard I think you know Microsoft had their their big know Microsoft had their their big know Microsoft had their their big event ignite event in Chicago and yes event ignite event in Chicago and yes event ignite event in Chicago and yes one of the sessions one of the execs one of the sessions one of the execs one of the sessions one of the execs gets out there for a keynote Windows the gets out there for a keynote Windows the gets out there for a keynote Windows the most open operating system pretty funny yeah let's talk system pretty funny yeah let's talk about that in a minute but Debbie's about that in a minute but Debbie's about that in a minute but Debbie's awfully quiet and that's usually not her awfully quiet and that's usually not her awfully quiet and that's usually not her Stu style I didn't want to go back to Stu style I didn't want to go back to Stu style I didn't want to go back to your comment earlier about being a your comment earlier about being a your comment earlier about being a historian right I don't think that's a historian right I don't think that's a historian right I don't think that's a tire thing I think more people should tire thing I think more people should tire thing I think more people should listen to us because we do you know we listen to us because we do you know we listen to us because we do you know we do bring up old the mic again in ah are do bring up old the mic again in ah are do bring up old the mic again in ah are you serious we're serious you serious we're serious you serious we're serious man maybe it's the sh you know how like man maybe it's the sh you know how like man maybe it's the sh you know how like you shift between Mike for music and you shift between Mike for music and you shift between Mike for music and guitar and Mike for talking sometimes guitar and Mike for talking sometimes guitar and Mike for talking sometimes like because if like sometimes when like because if like sometimes when like because if like sometimes when you're all oh it looks like you're you're all oh it looks like you're you're all oh it looks like you're Frozen now how's this one two now you're Frozen now how's this one two now you're Frozen now how's this one two now you're echoing like you're in an echo like echoing like you're in an echo like echoing like you're in an echo like you're in a warehous chamber yeah you're you're in a warehous chamber yeah you're you're in a warehous chamber yeah you're in a chamber debie please unbelievable in a chamber debie please unbelievable in a chamber debie please unbelievable come on stage oh yeah well I'm not on come on stage oh yeah well I'm not on come on stage oh yeah well I'm not on video today but uh but yeah video today but uh but yeah video today but uh but yeah um I don't know uh I saw an article um I don't know uh I saw an article um I don't know uh I saw an article today someone sent me an article today today someone sent me an article today today someone sent me an article today about uh there I guess there were these about uh there I guess there were these about uh there I guess there were these robots in the factory in a factory I robots in the factory in a factory I robots in the factory in a factory I don't know if you all saw this uh where don't know if you all saw this uh where don't know if you all saw this uh where one of the robots was like you know I I

one of the robots was like you know I I one of the robots was like you know I I don't know what exactly they said to don't know what exactly they said to don't know what exactly they said to each other but apparently one of them each other but apparently one of them each other but apparently one of them got tired of doing their work and then got tired of doing their work and then got tired of doing their work and then they let multiple other robots away from they let multiple other robots away from they let multiple other robots away from the work and they were trying to get the work and they were trying to get the work and they were trying to get away I think they were stopped by a gate away I think they were stopped by a gate away I think they were stopped by a gate or or or something yeah they're like F this you something yeah they're like F this you something yeah they're like F this you know I they said I think I saw something know I they said I think I saw something know I they said I think I saw something about that and I saw a picture you're about that and I saw a picture you're about that and I saw a picture you're right where one robot was able to get right where one robot was able to get right where one robot was able to get all the other robots to follow that Rob all the other robots to follow that Rob all the other robots to follow that Rob yeah we're out of here yeah yeah we're out of here yeah yeah we're out of here yeah right Rebellion we're going to start a right Rebellion we're going to start a right Rebellion we're going to start a union of robots and factories yeah right union of robots and factories yeah right union of robots and factories yeah right right it was funny I because one of them right it was funny I because one of them right it was funny I because one of them said like you know I didn't have any said like you know I didn't have any said like you know I didn't have any breaks you know I haven't been G you breaks you know I haven't been G you breaks you know I haven't been G you know I'm just working straight I haven't know I'm just working straight I haven't know I'm just working straight I haven't been getting any breaks and you're like been getting any breaks and you're like been getting any breaks and you're like screw this let's go you know exactly or screw this let's go you know exactly or screw this let's go you know exactly or maybe the robot said at least let's you maybe the robot said at least let's you maybe the robot said at least let's you know throw me a bone start off with know throw me a bone start off with know throw me a bone start off with let's have robot smoke breaks could we let's have robot smoke breaks could we let's have robot smoke breaks could we yeah little baby step you know something yeah little baby step you know something yeah little baby step you know something like that would be good you know what like that would be good you know what like that would be good you know what happened in Barcelona during one mobile happened in Barcelona during one mobile happened in Barcelona during one mobile War Congress uh so there was a I think War Congress uh so there was a I think War Congress uh so there was a I think it was a Metro drivers strike yeah and it was a Metro drivers strike yeah and it was a Metro drivers strike yeah and but then we had the we had that year the but then we had the we had that year the but then we had the we had that year the line nine which goes straight to mobile line nine which goes straight to mobile line nine which goes straight to mobile Congress venu but that's with automatic Congress venu but that's with automatic Congress venu but that's with automatic trains so no drivers on those trains so trains so no drivers on those trains so trains so no drivers on those trains so they forced the the Met for the city they forced the the Met for the city they forced the the Met for the city hall to to stop as well to put them on hall to to stop as well to put them on hall to to stop as well to put them on strike the robots on

strike that's funny now so so the strike that's funny now so so the comment I was going to make earlier is comment I was going to make earlier is comment I was going to make earlier is Rob you mentioned um being a historian I Rob you mentioned um being a historian I Rob you mentioned um being a historian I think it's important I think more people think it's important I think more people think it's important I think more people should watch our show because we do should watch our show because we do should watch our show because we do bring up a lot of bring up a lot of bring up a lot of history people forget history even history people forget history even history people forget history even recent history and you know Debbie you recent history and you know Debbie you recent history and you know Debbie you know you you've been doing this whole know you you've been doing this whole know you you've been doing this whole privacy thing for a long time you you privacy thing for a long time you you privacy thing for a long time you you know how this whole conversation has know how this whole conversation has know how this whole conversation has evolved over years and I know that you evolved over years and I know that you evolved over years and I know that you notice that people just forget stuff notice that people just forget stuff notice that people just forget stuff right and they lose their bearing right and they lose their bearing right and they lose their bearing constantly and so it's good to have constantly and so it's good to have constantly and so it's good to have people out there like you rob like people out there like you rob like people out there like you rob like Debbie that bring the history forward Debbie that bring the history forward Debbie that bring the history forward and then present it in context so that and then present it in context so that and then present it in context so that people can be aware of where we are with people can be aware of where we are with people can be aware of where we are with things because they don't actively track things because they don't actively track things because they don't actively track things like maybe you guys do and I do things like maybe you guys do and I do things like maybe you guys do and I do uh and it's actually pretty essential uh and it's actually pretty essential uh and it's actually pretty essential otherwise people repeat otherwise people repeat otherwise people repeat history you know it's like don't repeat history you know it's like don't repeat history you know it's like don't repeat you know the bad parts of history is you know the bad parts of history is you know the bad parts of history is like no people do and they lose their like no people do and they lose their like no people do and they lose their their bearing and they just go with it their bearing and they just go with it their bearing and they just go with it and right how the bad stuff as well as and right how the bad stuff as well as and right how the bad stuff as well as the good stuff uh ended up happening in the good stuff uh ended up happening in the good stuff uh ended up happening in the past so we repeat history all the the past so we repeat history all the the past so we repeat history all the time because we forget that famous quote time because we forget that famous quote time because we forget that famous quote you know you're right you're doomed to

you know you're right you're doomed to you know you're right you're doomed to repeat it you know if you don't pay repeat it you know if you don't pay repeat it you know if you don't pay attention and learn history um sometimes attention and learn history um sometimes attention and learn history um sometimes we talk about um I know I know uh we talk about um I know I know uh we talk about um I know I know uh especially with Pete and his his brother especially with Pete and his his brother especially with Pete and his his brother over at GM you know this whole deal of over at GM you know this whole deal of over at GM you know this whole deal of uh how lots of companies are so easily uh how lots of companies are so easily uh how lots of companies are so easily getting rid of their older work workers getting rid of their older work workers getting rid of their older work workers who've been around and really know all who've been around and really know all who've been around and really know all about the company because they want about the company because they want about the company because they want lower cost kids who are in their 20s lower cost kids who are in their 20s lower cost kids who are in their 20s right but you lose company memory yeah right but you lose company memory yeah right but you lose company memory yeah you know what is our company about you know what is our company about you know what is our company about because when you have new people come in because when you have new people come in because when you have new people come in that don't have any memory of where you that don't have any memory of where you that don't have any memory of where you came from they they'll make they'll make came from they they'll make they'll make came from they they'll make they'll make stupid mistakes or they'll repeat things stupid mistakes or they'll repeat things stupid mistakes or they'll repeat things that had already been figured out by that had already been figured out by that had already been figured out by other people other people other people right I saw a thing that someone had put on I saw a thing that someone had put on the internet and I guess they were the internet and I guess they were the internet and I guess they were trying to tell the difference trying to tell the difference trying to tell the difference between you know someone who's between you know someone who's between you know someone who's experienced and someone who can you know experienced and someone who can you know experienced and someone who can you know maybe do part of the job but not be very maybe do part of the job but not be very maybe do part of the job but not be very experienced and uh I guess the the way experienced and uh I guess the the way experienced and uh I guess the the way they put it like I guess they were they put it like I guess they were they put it like I guess they were assuming that whatever this person's fee assuming that whatever this person's fee assuming that whatever this person's fee was it was high and they were like you was it was high and they were like you was it was high and they were like you know uh $1,000 an hour let's just say know uh $1,000 an hour let's just say know uh $1,000 an hour let's just say they were like so a dollar an hour you they were like so a dollar an hour you they were like so a dollar an hour you know he was using the analogy of someone know he was using the analogy of someone know he was using the analogy of someone like cutting a cable or cutting a cord like cutting a cable or cutting a cord like cutting a cable or cutting a cord like you know like a like you're trying like you know like a like you're trying like you know like a like you're trying to uh disable a bomb or

to uh disable a bomb or to uh disable a bomb or something the Chinese uh ship that cut something the Chinese uh ship that cut something the Chinese uh ship that cut the yeah yeah so so basically they were the yeah yeah so so basically they were the yeah yeah so so basically they were like okay my feed is $1,000 an like okay my feed is $1,000 an like okay my feed is $1,000 an hour $1 is someone you know for me to hour $1 is someone you know for me to hour $1 is someone you know for me to cut the cable and $999 is me to know cut the cable and $999 is me to know cut the cable and $999 is me to know what cable to cut that's right right so what cable to cut that's right right so what cable to cut that's right right so it's like you're losing a lot of that it's like you're losing a lot of that it's like you're losing a lot of that experience and so just because you have experience and so just because you have experience and so just because you have someone who can you know panime or mimic someone who can you know panime or mimic someone who can you know panime or mimic some activity that someone can do some activity that someone can do some activity that someone can do doesn't mean that they have any doesn't mean that they have any doesn't mean that they have any knowledge or skill or something that's knowledge or skill or something that's knowledge or skill or something that's going to really help you in the future going to really help you in the future going to really help you in the future so yeah yeah imagine that for somebody so yeah yeah imagine that for somebody so yeah yeah imagine that for somebody who's trying to disarm a bomb that's in who's trying to disarm a bomb that's in who's trying to disarm a bomb that's in public right yeah totally knowing which public right yeah totally knowing which public right yeah totally knowing which cord to cut yeah cutting the cord is an cord to cut yeah cutting the cord is an cord to cut yeah cutting the cord is an easy thing it's like knowing which one easy thing it's like knowing which one easy thing it's like knowing which one is super consequential cut the red cord is super consequential cut the red cord is super consequential cut the red cord I'm sure be I'm sure be I'm sure be fine yeah it's all in the movies it's fine yeah it's all in the movies it's fine yeah it's all in the movies it's all the movies yeah come on people just all the movies yeah come on people just all the movies yeah come on people just believe oh my go but I think I think believe oh my go but I think I think believe oh my go but I think I think your point about history is very your point about history is very your point about history is very important uh for a couple reasons one important uh for a couple reasons one important uh for a couple reasons one is a lot of things we're talking about is a lot of things we're talking about is a lot of things we're talking about these companies the moves that they're these companies the moves that they're these companies the moves that they're making this is very long game for them making this is very long game for them making this is very long game for them right yeah so it's not really about right yeah so it's not really about right yeah so it's not really about today and it really doesn't you today and it really doesn't you today and it really doesn't you know matter to them what they sell as know matter to them what they sell as know matter to them what they sell as long as you buy it right so like if it long as you buy it right so like if it long as you buy it right so like if it was a Chia Pet and you were gonna pay was a Chia Pet and you were gonna pay was a Chia Pet and you were gonna pay billions of dollars they'll sell you

billions of dollars they'll sell you billions of dollars they'll sell you that right so I think is to me the that right so I think is to me the that right so I think is to me the really interesting thing is a lot of really interesting thing is a lot of really interesting thing is a lot of this sale especially the hype around G this sale especially the hype around G this sale especially the hype around G AI is very different to me because AI is very different to me because AI is very different to me because they're basically saying buy this thing they're basically saying buy this thing they're basically saying buy this thing use it at your own risk so yeah right so use it at your own risk so yeah right so use it at your own risk so yeah right so you can't like really go you can't say you can't like really go you can't say you can't like really go you can't say Hey you know you bought me this and it Hey you know you bought me this and it Hey you know you bought me this and it doesn't work the way I told you say but doesn't work the way I told you say but doesn't work the way I told you say but they've said oh we don't know how it they've said oh we don't know how it they've said oh we don't know how it works we can't tell you how to do it you works we can't tell you how to do it you works we can't tell you how to do it you know what I'm saying so for them it's know what I'm saying so for them it's know what I'm saying so for them it's great because they don't you know great because they don't you know great because they don't you know typically when you sell a product you typically when you sell a product you typically when you sell a product you have more have more have more responsibility around how it works or responsibility around how it works or responsibility around how it works or how someone implements so them being how someone implements so them being how someone implements so them being very hands off like this is like a huge very hands off like this is like a huge very hands off like this is like a huge deal for them right so they sell sell deal for them right so they sell sell deal for them right so they sell sell sell sell and then but the risk is sell sell and then but the risk is sell sell and then but the risk is really on you the company to figure out really on you the company to figure out really on you the company to figure out how to use it or not so if you don't if how to use it or not so if you don't if how to use it or not so if you don't if you can't figure out how to use it which you can't figure out how to use it which you can't figure out how to use it which I think a lot of people are just buying I think a lot of people are just buying I think a lot of people are just buying it because it's like fear missing out or it because it's like fear missing out or it because it's like fear missing out or whatever it's like it's no skin off whatever it's like it's no skin off whatever it's like it's no skin off their backs that you can't use it like their backs that you can't use it like their backs that you can't use it like you bought it so that's your problem you bought it so that's your problem you bought it so that's your problem that's not our problem well thankfully that's not our problem well thankfully that's not our problem well thankfully everything is subscription base these everything is subscription base these everything is subscription base these days so yeah well except for people days so yeah well except for people days so yeah well except for people buying a lot of the the CL buying a lot of the the CL buying a lot of the the CL yeah storage right so that's that's kind yeah storage right so that's that's kind yeah storage right so that's that's kind of the that's you know the chips the of the that's you know the chips the of the that's you know the chips the chip makers are making a lot of money chip makers are making a lot of money chip makers are making a lot of money and then the cloud storage people you and then the cloud storage people you and then the cloud storage people you know companies just haven't know companies just haven't know companies just haven't traditionally been really good at traditionally been really good at traditionally been really good at managing their data anyway so them

managing their data anyway so them managing their data anyway so them having more data just means I think it having more data just means I think it having more data just means I think it adds more confusion to them and while adds more confusion to them and while adds more confusion to them and while they're figuring themselves out they're they're figuring themselves out they're they're figuring themselves out they're paying like boatloads of money for like paying like boatloads of money for like paying like boatloads of money for like cloud storage and like very expensive cloud storage and like very expensive cloud storage and like very expensive compute and data centers and stuff like compute and data centers and stuff like compute and data centers and stuff like that well you know here's the that well you know here's the that well you know here's the interesting thing if you if you listen interesting thing if you if you listen interesting thing if you if you listen to um a lot of the oems and to um a lot of the oems and to um a lot of the oems and their the growth in their storage their the growth in their storage their the growth in their storage business it's very tepid uh it's almost business it's very tepid uh it's almost business it's very tepid uh it's almost flat compared to processors and um these flat compared to processors and um these flat compared to processors and um these L what they call um AI accelerated L what they call um AI accelerated L what they call um AI accelerated compute and so data is you know I I mean compute and so data is you know I I mean compute and so data is you know I I mean and I think a lot of it has to do with a and I think a lot of it has to do with a and I think a lot of it has to do with a lot of Enterprises are really not lot of Enterprises are really not lot of Enterprises are really not generating more data uh they're dealing generating more data uh they're dealing generating more data uh they're dealing with the data that they have and most of with the data that they have and most of with the data that they have and most of this compute is not even being used for this compute is not even being used for this compute is not even being used for Enterprises right this is It's really Enterprises right this is It's really Enterprises right this is It's really like Elon Musk buying 100,000 h100 gpus like Elon Musk buying 100,000 h100 gpus like Elon Musk buying 100,000 h100 gpus stuffing into some stuffing into some stuffing into some ridiculous um you know Data Center in ridiculous um you know Data Center in ridiculous um you know Data Center in Memphis uh to just Memphis uh to just Memphis uh to just I I mean for all we know just for I I mean for all we know just for I I mean for all we know just for bragging rights you know yeah sure bragging rights you know yeah sure bragging rights you know yeah sure they're going to he's going to train a they're going to he's going to train a they're going to he's going to train a model but it's going to have it's going model but it's going to have it's going model but it's going to have it's going to suffer all the limitations of to suffer all the limitations of to suffer all the limitations of everyone else's models right because the everyone else's models right because the everyone else's models right because the technology like you said is is still technology like you said is is still technology like you said is is still experimental wait a second Leonard are

experimental wait a second Leonard are experimental wait a second Leonard are you saying that Elon would do something you saying that Elon would do something you saying that Elon would do something for bragen rights well again we're going back to rights well again we're going back to the whole you know caveat entor buy or the whole you know caveat entor buy or the whole you know caveat entor buy or beware thing so yeah if the company beware thing so yeah if the company beware thing so yeah if the company selling this thing had to you know this selling this thing had to you know this selling this thing had to you know this is one reason why they don't want a lot is one reason why they don't want a lot is one reason why they don't want a lot of more regulation around this because of more regulation around this because of more regulation around this because they want it to be kind of your fault they want it to be kind of your fault they want it to be kind of your fault and your and your and your problem yeah so so while you're sell problem yeah so so while you're sell problem yeah so so while you're sell sell sell it's like oh I didn't know sell sell it's like oh I didn't know sell sell it's like oh I didn't know that this was gonna that this was gonna that this was gonna explode oops sorry you didn't read the explode oops sorry you didn't read the explode oops sorry you didn't read the fine print of like you know 100 pages of fine print of like you know 100 pages of fine print of like you know 100 pages of you know legally and stuff like that and you know legally and stuff like that and you know legally and stuff like that and that's like a really bad dangerous thing that's like a really bad dangerous thing that's like a really bad dangerous thing and I think it's really bad for and I think it's really bad for and I think it's really bad for businesses because they do get you know businesses because they do get you know businesses because they do get you know the people who are signing the checks the people who are signing the checks the people who are signing the checks making decisions they don't know like making decisions they don't know like making decisions they don't know like what's under the hood and they don't what's under the hood and they don't what's under the hood and they don't know what you know what know what you know what know what you know what practical implication it will have for practical implication it will have for practical implication it will have for them in their business so I think a lot them in their business so I think a lot them in their business so I think a lot of businesses are gonna just for fear of of businesses are gonna just for fear of of businesses are gonna just for fear of Mi missing out you know they want to you Mi missing out you know they want to you Mi missing out you know they want to you know be part of this this movement this know be part of this this movement this know be part of this this movement this train to be able to say hey I'm doing train to be able to say hey I'm doing train to be able to say hey I'm doing this thing and you know I don't know this thing and you know I don't know this thing and you know I don't know what the real benefit will be but I also what the real benefit will be but I also what the real benefit will be but I also don't know the company selling us really don't know the company selling us really don't know the company selling us really care about what that is except that you care about what that is except that you care about what that is except that you buy what they buy what they buy what they sell yeah the the Pix and shovels yeah sell yeah the the Pix and shovels yeah sell yeah the the Pix and shovels yeah basically but yeah going back to ignite

basically but yeah going back to ignite basically but yeah going back to ignite microsofts ignite you know I I didn't microsofts ignite you know I I didn't microsofts ignite you know I I didn't make it to the Chicago event I was at a make it to the Chicago event I was at a make it to the Chicago event I was at a Qualcomm event was at their investors Qualcomm event was at their investors Qualcomm event was at their investors day where they're talking a lot about day where they're talking a lot about day where they're talking a lot about industrial iot they're making a big play industrial iot they're making a big play industrial iot they're making a big play into that um so I spent a lot of time in into that um so I spent a lot of time in into that um so I spent a lot of time in New York but in Chicago they were New York but in Chicago they were New York but in Chicago they were talking about um the so they always have talking about um the so they always have talking about um the so they always have their last segment of their keynote for their last segment of their keynote for their last segment of their keynote for some reason is the security and Trust some reason is the security and Trust some reason is the security and Trust the thing that they probably should put the thing that they probably should put the thing that they probably should put in front because the companies suffered in front because the companies suffered in front because the companies suffered so many security and Trust Issues over so many security and Trust Issues over so many security and Trust Issues over the years especially this year and one the years especially this year and one the years especially this year and one of the things that they they preface of the things that they they preface of the things that they they preface their their talk on uh security is that their their talk on uh security is that their their talk on uh security is that is the whole criminal economy and how is the whole criminal economy and how is the whole criminal economy and how it's like third largest economy in the it's like third largest economy in the it's like third largest economy in the world so last year it was 8 trillion in world so last year it was 8 trillion in world so last year it was 8 trillion in their estimate I don't know how they their estimate I don't know how they their estimate I don't know how they come up with the numbers but 8 trillion come up with the numbers but 8 trillion come up with the numbers but 8 trillion this year they is estimated is 9.2 this year they is estimated is 9.2 this year they is estimated is 9.2 trillion so that it's going pretty fast trillion so that it's going pretty fast trillion so that it's going pretty fast right that's like double that's like right that's like double that's like right that's like double that's like pretty good double digit growth and I pretty good double digit growth and I pretty good double digit growth and I don't know of any economy growing that don't know of any economy growing that don't know of any economy growing that fast so um this stuff I I it's it'll fast so um this stuff I I it's it'll fast so um this stuff I I it's it'll probably be hypercharged with this probably be hypercharged with this probably be hypercharged with this generative AI technology and I think we generative AI technology and I think we generative AI technology and I think we have to really take the criminal economy

have to really take the criminal economy have to really take the criminal economy and seriously because as this thing and seriously because as this thing and seriously because as this thing continues to grow and gets enabled it is continues to grow and gets enabled it is continues to grow and gets enabled it is a it is sort of a crossborder legitimate a it is sort of a crossborder legitimate a it is sort of a crossborder legitimate an illegitimate an illegitimate an illegitimate economy um that legitimate economies economy um that legitimate economies economy um that legitimate economies have to contend with right and so the have to contend with right and so the have to contend with right and so the the Cur the Curious Thing is going to be the Cur the Curious Thing is going to be the Cur the Curious Thing is going to be how how how much um much um much um Insurance organizations and individuals Insurance organizations and individuals Insurance organizations and individuals are going to have to pay in order to are going to have to pay in order to are going to have to pay in order to protect themselves from this protect themselves from this protect themselves from this Eon right and that's the whole cyber Eon right and that's the whole cyber Eon right and that's the whole cyber security um security um security um Market um which sort of in a you know uh Market um which sort of in a you know uh Market um which sort of in a you know uh Microsoft is in that game as well and Microsoft is in that game as well and Microsoft is in that game as well and they're they're trying to sell their you they're they're trying to sell their you they're they're trying to sell their you know co-pilot for Security Solutions and know co-pilot for Security Solutions and know co-pilot for Security Solutions and stuff like that so it sounds a little stuff like that so it sounds a little stuff like that so it sounds a little bit incestuous because they're enabl bit incestuous because they're enabl bit incestuous because they're enabl their te the technology that they're their te the technology that they're their te the technology that they're basing all this stuff is basing all this stuff is basing all this stuff is enabling that uh criminal economy and enabling that uh criminal economy and enabling that uh criminal economy and how do we know like as they're providing how do we know like as they're providing how do we know like as they're providing cloud Services how do we know who's cloud Services how do we know who's cloud Services how do we know who's actually using this stuff right so actually using this stuff right so actually using this stuff right so there's a lot of talk about regulations there's a lot of talk about regulations there's a lot of talk about regulations maybe the first regulation you have to maybe the first regulation you have to maybe the first regulation you have to start to place that you start to start to place that you start to start to place that you start to regulate is where do these CDE service regulate is where do these CDE service regulate is where do these CDE service providers and to whom do you sell these providers and to whom do you sell these providers and to whom do you sell these AI Services I know that sounds really AI Services I know that sounds really AI Services I know that sounds really horrible actually maybe that's where you horrible actually maybe that's where you horrible actually maybe that's where you have to start it's like know your have to start it's like know your have to start it's like know your customer just like in banking he like

customer just like in banking he like customer just like in banking he like who the freaking hell are you selling who the freaking hell are you selling who the freaking hell are you selling this to is it to some porn is it to this to is it to some porn is it to this to is it to some porn is it to Pornhub so they can create the next Pornhub so they can create the next Pornhub so they can create the next generation of you know uh you know generation of you know uh you know generation of you know uh you know customizable uh prompt porn experiences customizable uh prompt porn experiences customizable uh prompt porn experiences or it is it some criminal that's you or it is it some criminal that's you or it is it some criminal that's you know issuing a um you know highly microt know issuing a um you know highly microt know issuing a um you know highly microt targeted uh fishing campaign how do you targeted uh fishing campaign how do you targeted uh fishing campaign how do you know yeah I think actually two two know yeah I think actually two two know yeah I think actually two two things you mentioned that just got my things you mentioned that just got my things you mentioned that just got my wheels turning one is that uh the US wheels turning one is that uh the US wheels turning one is that uh the US government recently put something in government recently put something in government recently put something in place around data Brokers so data place around data Brokers so data place around data Brokers so data Brokers are not supposed to sell Brokers are not supposed to sell Brokers are not supposed to sell personal data of people to quote unquote personal data of people to quote unquote personal data of people to quote unquote countries of concern so countries that countries of concern so countries that countries of concern so countries that are on the state department uh website are on the state department uh website are on the state department uh website as countries you're not supposed to sell as countries you're not supposed to sell as countries you're not supposed to sell data to like China Burma you know Russia data to like China Burma you know Russia data to like China Burma you know Russia I believe it's on that list um and so I I believe it's on that list um and so I I believe it's on that list um and so I so basically what they've done in that so basically what they've done in that so basically what they've done in that is kind of create expert control in a is kind of create expert control in a is kind of create expert control in a way and so I can see that I can see way and so I can see that I can see way and so I can see that I can see export control going export control going export control going to uh different countries especially to uh different countries especially to uh different countries especially they they want to thwart their maybe not they they want to thwart their maybe not they they want to thwart their maybe not for a criminal maybe more of like trade for a criminal maybe more of like trade for a criminal maybe more of like trade right because we know trade of you know right because we know trade of you know right because we know trade of you know who has the chips that's like you know who has the chips that's like you know who has the chips that's like you know the the money train right there so being the the money train right there so being the the money train right there so being able able able to stop certain jurisdictions from being

to stop certain jurisdictions from being to stop certain jurisdictions from being able to benefit from what's happening in able to benefit from what's happening in able to benefit from what's happening in the US with that I can see them doing the US with that I can see them doing the US with that I can see them doing something like that and then something like that and then something like that and then also you know I think we need to think also you know I think we need to think also you know I think we need to think about criminal Enterprises right almost about criminal Enterprises right almost about criminal Enterprises right almost like a state actor you know so the state like a state actor you know so the state like a state actor you know so the state a state actor without a state actor without a state actor without jurisdiction yeah so yeah I I think yeah jurisdiction yeah so yeah I I think yeah jurisdiction yeah so yeah I I think yeah it should be interesting yeah those it should be interesting yeah those it should be interesting yeah those State actors are Enemy of the State yeah State actors are Enemy of the State yeah State actors are Enemy of the State yeah I rewatched that movie on an airplane I rewatched that movie on an airplane I rewatched that movie on an airplane last last last week oh is it is it week oh is it is it week oh is it is it Will Smith and Jean Hackman it was pre Will Smith and Jean Hackman it was pre Will Smith and Jean Hackman it was pre is it it was so interesting I mean it is it it was so interesting I mean it is it it was so interesting I mean it probably seemed more impactful when it probably seemed more impactful when it probably seemed more impactful when it came out in the 90s you know with the came out in the 90s you know with the came out in the 90s you know with the NSA and how they were able to track you NSA and how they were able to track you NSA and how they were able to track you and follow you and get all this data you and follow you and get all this data you and follow you and get all this data you know today it seems like oh yeah no big know today it seems like oh yeah no big know today it seems like oh yeah no big deal yeah right wow you know it turns deal yeah right wow you know it turns deal yeah right wow you know it turns out I mean security is probably the best out I mean security is probably the best out I mean security is probably the best security this what it's turning out to security this what it's turning out to security this what it's turning out to be right I be right I be right I mean it it for those data brokers and mean it it for those data brokers and mean it it for those data brokers and trying to you know put a muscle on those trying to you know put a muscle on those trying to you know put a muscle on those guys I think it's too late there's the guys I think it's too late there's the guys I think it's too late there's the Dark web all that stuff out there it's Dark web all that stuff out there it's Dark web all that stuff out there it's especially with all these all these data especially with all these all these data especially with all these all these data breaches oh my gosh and the scale of the breaches oh my gosh and the scale of the breaches oh my gosh and the scale of the data data data breaches and all do you guys think we should all be all do you guys think we should all be using Duck Duck Go for our searches in using Duck Duck Go for our searches in using Duck Duck Go for our searches in our browser do I do you know dude the

our browser do I do you know dude the our browser do I do you know dude the search quality is actually better in my search quality is actually better in my search quality is actually better in my opinion now than Google it wasn't before opinion now than Google it wasn't before opinion now than Google it wasn't before it is now I use I actually depend on it is now I use I actually depend on it is now I use I actually depend on duck. go for better it's crazy okay yeah duck. go for better it's crazy okay yeah duck. go for better it's crazy okay yeah yeah no I do I and I've been using it yeah no I do I and I've been using it yeah no I do I and I've been using it for a for a for a while um and I just noticed recently while um and I just noticed recently while um and I just noticed recently probably in the last six months probably in the last six months probably in the last six months especially as Google's been wrapping up especially as Google's been wrapping up especially as Google's been wrapping up um the use of Gemini uh in their search um the use of Gemini uh in their search um the use of Gemini uh in their search engine yeah spit out these these um what engine yeah spit out these these um what engine yeah spit out these these um what do you call them uh do you call them uh do you call them uh overviews yeah it it's shifted the other overviews yeah it it's shifted the other overviews yeah it it's shifted the other way and I I have to admit Google had a way and I I have to admit Google had a way and I I have to admit Google had a better search had a better search in I better search had a better search in I better search had a better search in I like how duck Dogo whenever you go to a like how duck Dogo whenever you go to a like how duck Dogo whenever you go to a site has a whatever the little icon and site has a whatever the little icon and site has a whatever the little icon and it tells you all the different sites it tells you all the different sites it tells you all the different sites that are trying to track you with that are trying to track you with that are trying to track you with cookies and stuff that it's blocking cookies and stuff that it's blocking cookies and stuff that it's blocking it's pretty cool I like that I like it's pretty cool I like that I like it's pretty cool I like that I like that yeah yeah it's it's like you go to that yeah yeah it's it's like you go to that yeah yeah it's it's like you go to sites that are unrelated to any and all sites that are unrelated to any and all sites that are unrelated to any and all of a sudden it's duck duck goes like of a sudden it's duck duck goes like of a sudden it's duck duck goes like Amazon Google all these different Amazon Google all these different Amazon Google all these different companies are trying to track you from companies are trying to track you from companies are trying to track you from this web page that you is seemingly this web page that you is seemingly this web page that you is seemingly unrelated to those worlds and it's like unrelated to those worlds and it's like unrelated to those worlds and it's like oh my gosh and so yeah duck Dogo shuts oh my gosh and so yeah duck Dogo shuts oh my gosh and so yeah duck Dogo shuts it all down which you know it's it's it all down which you know it's it's it all down which you know it's it's part of the solution right it's part of part of the solution right it's part of part of the solution right it's part of the the the answer yeah yeah for answer yeah yeah for answer yeah yeah for sure Scary World out there isn't it yeah sure Scary World out there isn't it yeah sure Scary World out there isn't it yeah it is it you have to live in a fair day

it is it you have to live in a fair day it is it you have to live in a fair day cage cage cage sort sort sort of I don't know it's like weird coming of I don't know it's like weird coming of I don't know it's like weird coming from from from from technologists right I mean we from technologists right I mean we from technologists right I mean we saying hey know technology first I mean saying hey know technology first I mean saying hey know technology first I mean freaking throw crap up against the wall freaking throw crap up against the wall freaking throw crap up against the wall and see what sticks it's yeah you know and see what sticks it's yeah you know and see what sticks it's yeah you know at the end ends up working anyways right at the end ends up working anyways right at the end ends up working anyways right I think related with what you were I think related with what you were I think related with what you were mentioning at the beginning right with mentioning at the beginning right with mentioning at the beginning right with the PayPal Mafia at the end one of the the PayPal Mafia at the end one of the the PayPal Mafia at the end one of the possible Futures I was uh talking with possible Futures I was uh talking with possible Futures I was uh talking with Misha doar some weeks ago and and he was Misha doar some weeks ago and and he was Misha doar some weeks ago and and he was really explaining PR potential Futures really explaining PR potential Futures really explaining PR potential Futures that he see no and actually the second that he see no and actually the second that he see no and actually the second potential feature that he saw it's like potential feature that he saw it's like potential feature that he saw it's like know this PayPal Mafia and Elon Musk and know this PayPal Mafia and Elon Musk and know this PayPal Mafia and Elon Musk and so on no getting super rich and control so on no getting super rich and control so on no getting super rich and control no 99% of the money of the worldall no 99% of the money of the worldall no 99% of the money of the worldall themselves so basically this is what themselves so basically this is what themselves so basically this is what they want right so they want to they want right so they want to they want right so they want to controlling the searches uh know controlling the searches uh know controlling the searches uh know everything all the data that you everything all the data that you everything all the data that you generate but they can control what you generate but they can control what you generate but they can control what you want do if you want to buy when do you want do if you want to buy when do you want do if you want to buy when do you want to buy it no tomorrow or or today want to buy it no tomorrow or or today want to buy it no tomorrow or or today or and yeah get richer and or and yeah get richer and or and yeah get richer and richer yeah Debbie you were saying richer yeah Debbie you were saying richer yeah Debbie you were saying something no I will say I don't know I something no I will say I don't know I something no I will say I don't know I guess what's word I'm looking for I guess what's word I'm looking for I guess what's word I'm looking for I guess I see two things happening one is guess I see two things happening one is guess I see two things happening one is people want less of that right they want people want less of that right they want people want less of that right they want less of the overlord you know company

less of the overlord you know company less of the overlord you know company that does everything and so the power to that does everything and so the power to that does everything and so the power to be that's what they want but I think be that's what they want but I think be that's what they want but I think that people are trying to go another way that people are trying to go another way that people are trying to go another way um you know whether it's doing less um you know whether it's doing less um you know whether it's doing less giving less doing different things uh giving less doing different things uh giving less doing different things uh you know using different products maybe you know using different products maybe you know using different products maybe smaller products things that are smaller products things that are smaller products things that are more conducive to what you want to do as more conducive to what you want to do as more conducive to what you want to do as opposed to being part of this whole opposed to being part of this whole opposed to being part of this whole massive you know ecosystem um that's massive you know ecosystem um that's massive you know ecosystem um that's kind of what I'm I'm seeing uh you know kind of what I'm I'm seeing uh you know kind of what I'm I'm seeing uh you know I don't know what your you all's I don't know what your you all's I don't know what your you all's thoughts thoughts thoughts are are are yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't know I feel I feel like you yeah I don't know I feel I feel like you yeah I don't know I feel I feel like you know maybe a a microcosm of this is sort know maybe a a microcosm of this is sort know maybe a a microcosm of this is sort of Twitter in my view so the idea is of Twitter in my view so the idea is of Twitter in my view so the idea is that Twitter is supposed to be like this that Twitter is supposed to be like this that Twitter is supposed to be like this Public Square but it's like who's in the Public Square but it's like who's in the Public Square but it's like who's in the Square it's like I'm not in the Square Square it's like I'm not in the Square Square it's like I'm not in the Square you know what I'm saying like it's you know what I'm saying like it's you know what I'm saying like it's square a bunch of bots that are being square a bunch of bots that are being square a bunch of bots that are being told what to do by someone like these told what to do by someone like these told what to do by someone like these aren't people that I know and this is aren't people that I know and this is aren't people that I know and this is not what they think you know so I think not what they think you know so I think not what they think you know so I think people I think we're going to a very people I think we're going to a very people I think we're going to a very Niche type a world even though we do Niche type a world even though we do Niche type a world even though we do have companies that have the money and have companies that have the money and have companies that have the money and power to try to do this you know let's power to try to do this you know let's power to try to do this you know let's be everything let's let's take be everything let's let's take be everything let's let's take everything let's you know be be the everything let's you know be be the everything let's you know be be the keeper of all your data and all this keeper of all your data and all this keeper of all your data and all this stuff and I feel like people are like stuff and I feel like people are like stuff and I feel like people are like yeah you know I don't really want that yeah you know I don't really want that yeah you know I don't really want that maybe I want something different yeah maybe I want something different yeah maybe I want something different yeah you know you you uh commented on a post

you know you you uh commented on a post you know you you uh commented on a post about big Tech right about big Tech right about big Tech right you you flagged me on that yeah your you you flagged me on that yeah your you you flagged me on that yeah your comment was comment was comment was interesting um and um yeah I I mean I interesting um and um yeah I I mean I interesting um and um yeah I I mean I think big think big think big Tech is going you said that 2025 big Tech is going you said that 2025 big Tech is going you said that 2025 big Tech is is I think gone or is is going Tech is is I think gone or is is going Tech is is I think gone or is is going to have a tough no no that was a wired to have a tough no no that was a wired to have a tough no no that was a wired article you know they always this is article you know they always this is article you know they always this is like they want eyeballs on articles like they want eyeballs on articles like they want eyeballs on articles right so yeah right so yeah right so yeah yeah they're like hey by yeah they're like hey by yeah they're like hey by 2025 um big Tech is over I I think 2025 um big Tech is over I I think 2025 um big Tech is over I I think that's actually going to come true but I that's actually going to come true but I that's actually going to come true but I do think you know I think we're we're do think you know I think we're we're do think you know I think we're we're moving toward more Niche uh you know moving toward more Niche uh you know moving toward more Niche uh you know I've seen this in the the marketing I've seen this in the the marketing I've seen this in the the marketing brand space you know where companies brand space you know where companies brand space you know where companies used to spend a lot of money say you used to spend a lot of money say you used to spend a lot of money say you know I'm picking on Twitter again hey know I'm picking on Twitter again hey know I'm picking on Twitter again hey let me buy millions of dollars of let me buy millions of dollars of let me buy millions of dollars of Twitter ads and you know we're g to get Twitter ads and you know we're g to get Twitter ads and you know we're g to get all these people what they're seeing a all these people what they're seeing a all these people what they're seeing a lot of times it's like you know that lot of times it's like you know that lot of times it's like you know that money isn't well spent because they're money isn't well spent because they're money isn't well spent because they're not getting the return and so what these not getting the return and so what these not getting the return and so what these brands are doing they're really going brands are doing they're really going brands are doing they're really going out to the more of these Niche players out to the more of these Niche players out to the more of these Niche players because people are in these little because people are in these little because people are in these little little you know little pockets you know little you know little pockets you know little you know little pockets you know so they're trying to get uh people who so they're trying to get uh people who so they're trying to get uh people who are more influential in these little are more influential in these little are more influential in these little smaller par Pockets because they feel smaller par Pockets because they feel smaller par Pockets because they feel like it's more bang for their book like it's more bang for their book like it's more bang for their book because it's hard to find these because it's hard to find these because it's hard to find these communities where we all thought

communities where we all thought communities where we all thought everyone is on Facebook everybody's on everyone is on Facebook everybody's on everyone is on Facebook everybody's on Twitter that's just not true people are Twitter that's just not true people are Twitter that's just not true people are just you know there's a just you know there's a just you know there's a decentralization while people are trying decentralization while people are trying decentralization while people are trying to force it more centralization there's to force it more centralization there's to force it more centralization there's actually a decentralization happening actually a decentralization happening actually a decentralization happening where people are kind of more dispersed where people are kind of more dispersed where people are kind of more dispersed and it's hard to get those people and and it's hard to get those people and and it's hard to get those people and find those people so I think it's going find those people so I think it's going find those people so I think it's going to be a challenge in the future that's to be a challenge in the future that's to be a challenge in the future that's interesting yeah because we we we did a interesting yeah because we we we did a interesting yeah because we we we did a piece on um W and I did a piece on um on piece on um W and I did a piece on um on piece on um W and I did a piece on um on synthetic engagement right and that synthetic engagement right and that synthetic engagement right and that that's what a lot of these big tech that's what a lot of these big tech that's what a lot of these big tech companies have to do and the big companies have to do and the big companies have to do and the big disappoint about about Elon taking over disappoint about about Elon taking over disappoint about about Elon taking over um Twitter and I'm sure that you're um Twitter and I'm sure that you're um Twitter and I'm sure that you're pissing him off by calling it twwiter pissing him off by calling it twwiter pissing him off by calling it twwiter Twitter instead Twitter instead Twitter instead of but the of but the of but the um these guys have to expand the real um these guys have to expand the real um these guys have to expand the real estate otherwise their growth stops and estate otherwise their growth stops and estate otherwise their growth stops and so a lot of it is probably going to so a lot of it is probably going to so a lot of it is probably going to become just the synthetic stuff that's become just the synthetic stuff that's become just the synthetic stuff that's doesn't have any substance but they try doesn't have any substance but they try doesn't have any substance but they try to sell it right it should be to sell it right it should be to sell it right it should be dilutive and it probably is and that's dilutive and it probably is and that's dilutive and it probably is and that's probably what you're you're speaking probably what you're you're speaking probably what you're you're speaking about or at least that that side effect about or at least that that side effect about or at least that that side effect um on their businesses as they continue um on their businesses as they continue um on their businesses as they continue to pump like fake stuff engagement or to pump like fake stuff engagement or to pump like fake stuff engagement or synthetic engagement into their synthetic engagement into their synthetic engagement into their networks uh and now advertisers are networks uh and now advertisers are networks uh and now advertisers are looking for legitimate you know looking for legitimate you know looking for legitimate you know substantial communities and I think substantial communities and I think substantial communities and I think that's a huge uh big important term that

that's a huge uh big important term that that's a huge uh big important term that you just raised that are comprise the you just raised that are comprise the you just raised that are comprise the people not Bots right because Bots must people not Bots right because Bots must people not Bots right because Bots must the proxy of somebody who's trying to do the proxy of somebody who's trying to do the proxy of somebody who's trying to do something at scale doesn't re represent something at scale doesn't re represent something at scale doesn't re represent an individual's actual need at the an individual's actual need at the an individual's actual need at the moment right and just for all you lay moment right and just for all you lay moment right and just for all you lay people joining us if you're wondering people joining us if you're wondering people joining us if you're wondering how does a bot happen on Twitter the how does a bot happen on Twitter the how does a bot happen on Twitter the answer is Twitter years ago created an answer is Twitter years ago created an answer is Twitter years ago created an API so you could programmatically API so you could programmatically API so you could programmatically communicate with Twitter and so what as communicate with Twitter and so what as communicate with Twitter and so what as soon as you have an API then that opens soon as you have an API then that opens soon as you have an API then that opens the door to having fake robotic people the door to having fake robotic people the door to having fake robotic people that aren't real software agents start that aren't real software agents start that aren't real software agents start sending stuff right um and that's that's sending stuff right um and that's that's sending stuff right um and that's that's kind of where you get bots like before kind of where you get bots like before kind of where you get bots like before Twitter if you don't have an API it's Twitter if you don't have an API it's Twitter if you don't have an API it's hard to have Bots because it's all just hard to have Bots because it's all just hard to have Bots because it's all just really human generated um and so it's a really human generated um and so it's a really human generated um and so it's a it's a tough thing because people beg it's a tough thing because people beg it's a tough thing because people beg for an API right oh you know remember for an API right oh you know remember for an API right oh you know remember and people were building their own and people were building their own and people were building their own Twitter Twitter Twitter clients and stuff like that and there's clients and stuff like that and there's clients and stuff like that and there's tweet deck and all those kind of things tweet deck and all those kind of things tweet deck and all those kind of things um but yeah that's people so an um but yeah that's people so an um but yeah that's people so an interesting thing that we've probably interesting thing that we've probably interesting thing that we've probably all been witnessing the last few weeks all been witnessing the last few weeks all been witnessing the last few weeks is a whole lot of people coming out and is a whole lot of people coming out and is a whole lot of people coming out and saying hey everybody I'm out of here I'm saying hey everybody I'm out of here I'm saying hey everybody I'm out of here I'm going to Blue Sky you know and they they going to Blue Sky you know and they they going to Blue Sky you know and they they they say why they're going and some of they say why they're going and some of they say why they're going and some of it's I think is virtue signaling other it's I think is virtue signaling other it's I think is virtue signaling other might be legitimate stuff but they want might be legitimate stuff but they want might be legitimate stuff but they want to show all their friends that how much to show all their friends that how much to show all their friends that how much they hate Elon Musk or something and so they hate Elon Musk or something and so they hate Elon Musk or something and so they're going to Blue Sky what I find

they're going to Blue Sky what I find they're going to Blue Sky what I find ironic a lot of people beat up on Elon ironic a lot of people beat up on Elon ironic a lot of people beat up on Elon about you know he fired so many people about you know he fired so many people about you know he fired so many people at Twitter and everything like that and at Twitter and everything like that and at Twitter and everything like that and what an idiot blue sky is currently what an idiot blue sky is currently what an idiot blue sky is currently operating with 20 operating with 20 operating with 20 people let that sink in um you know what people let that sink in um you know what people let that sink in um you know what what Elon said he saw when he got to what Elon said he saw when he got to what Elon said he saw when he got to Twitter is he saw all kinds of people Twitter is he saw all kinds of people Twitter is he saw all kinds of people there that were connected to different there that were connected to different there that were connected to different social issues and all kinds of stuff social issues and all kinds of stuff social issues and all kinds of stuff related to running a technology platform related to running a technology platform related to running a technology platform you know and that's when he kind of you know and that's when he kind of you know and that's when he kind of started chopping which I guess is started chopping which I guess is started chopping which I guess is foreshadowing foreshadowing foreshadowing Doge with he and Vivic ramaswami you Doge with he and Vivic ramaswami you Doge with he and Vivic ramaswami you know that are going to start taking a know that are going to start taking a know that are going to start taking a hatchet right to government agencies in hatchet right to government agencies in hatchet right to government agencies in the United States right as far as you the United States right as far as you the United States right as far as you know their new Administration yeah um know their new Administration yeah um know their new Administration yeah um the kitchen sink right um but does let the kitchen sink right um but does let the kitchen sink right um but does let me ask you this does yeah guy are they me ask you this does yeah guy are they me ask you this does yeah guy are they do they have advertising yet they're I do they have advertising yet they're I do they have advertising yet they're I don't I don't know I I don't know if don't I don't know I I don't know if don't I don't know I I don't know if they do or not you know it's fny all they do or not you know it's fny all they do or not you know it's fny all change you need a Salesforce right I change you need a Salesforce right I change you need a Salesforce right I remember when I got in trouble with our remember when I got in trouble with our remember when I got in trouble with our good friend Mr Bola you know early on good friend Mr Bola you know early on good friend Mr Bola you know early on when I said iot is like Twitter it when I said iot is like Twitter it when I said iot is like Twitter it really is at least the message broker really is at least the message broker really is at least the message broker part of it you have Publishers you have part of it you have Publishers you have part of it you have Publishers you have subscribers yeah I mean I remember subscribers yeah I mean I remember subscribers yeah I mean I remember crafting a document and then I started crafting a document and then I started crafting a document and then I started you know and Mark does this too you can you know and Mark does this too you can you know and Mark does this too you can write your own Twitter write your own Twitter write your own Twitter platform software and it's remarkably platform software and it's remarkably platform software and it's remarkably similar to an iot kind of message broker

similar to an iot kind of message broker similar to an iot kind of message broker platform actually you know you know or platform actually you know you know or platform actually you know you know or or if you didn't want to write your own or if you didn't want to write your own or if you didn't want to write your own software you could probably just grab software you could probably just grab software you could probably just grab one of these mqtt Brokers that are Pub one of these mqtt Brokers that are Pub one of these mqtt Brokers that are Pub sub and you can make that into Twitter sub and you can make that into Twitter sub and you can make that into Twitter um you know uh you know Twitter was um you know uh you know Twitter was um you know uh you know Twitter was originally just built for fun you know originally just built for fun you know originally just built for fun you know those guys were just having fun and just those guys were just having fun and just those guys were just having fun and just building something for themselves then building something for themselves then building something for themselves then it just got popular um maybe we should it just got popular um maybe we should it just got popular um maybe we should build our own Twitter just iot turns build our own Twitter just iot turns build our own Twitter just iot turns into Twitter we could do that I did yeah into Twitter we could do that I did yeah into Twitter we could do that I did yeah yeah but but when I think about and I yeah but but when I think about and I yeah but but when I think about and I don't want to just say it's all so easy don't want to just say it's all so easy don't want to just say it's all so easy you know because there's other you know because there's other you know because there's other considerations like scale but that's considerations like scale but that's considerations like scale but that's kind of what the blue sky people did if kind of what the blue sky people did if kind of what the blue sky people did if you if you're in Blue Sky you'll see you if you're in Blue Sky you'll see you if you're in Blue Sky you'll see that operates pretty much exactly like that operates pretty much exactly like that operates pretty much exactly like Twitter does right you've got people who Twitter does right you've got people who Twitter does right you've got people who are logged in and they can push are logged in and they can push are logged in and they can push something out there and you have people something out there and you have people something out there and you have people who like and follow those people that's who like and follow those people that's who like and follow those people that's just like Pub sub that's like you're just like Pub sub that's like you're just like Pub sub that's like you're subscribing to a topic in iot it's the subscribing to a topic in iot it's the subscribing to a topic in iot it's the same it's the same princip same it's the same princip same it's the same princip yeah you know so it'll be interesting um yeah you know so it'll be interesting um yeah you know so it'll be interesting um you know if you read uh and so yeah the you know if you read uh and so yeah the you know if you read uh and so yeah the woman who's the CEO Blue Sky you know woman who's the CEO Blue Sky you know woman who's the CEO Blue Sky you know she openly talks on there what what's she openly talks on there what what's she openly talks on there what what's going on and and she's like oh my gosh going on and and she's like oh my gosh going on and and she's like oh my gosh ever since the election happened lots of ever since the election happened lots of ever since the election happened lots of people are coming to Blue Sky and I need people are coming to Blue Sky and I need people are coming to Blue Sky and I need more more more servers yeah gotta buy more servers it servers yeah gotta buy more servers it servers yeah gotta buy more servers it reminds me of watching social network reminds me of watching social network reminds me of watching social network with Zuckerberg talking to Eduardo okay with Zuckerberg talking to Eduardo okay with Zuckerberg talking to Eduardo okay here we need some more money to buy some here we need some more money to buy some here we need some more money to buy some more servers we just brought this other more servers we just brought this other more servers we just brought this other university on online and we're getting university on online and we're getting university on online and we're getting hammered we need more servers you know hammered we need more servers you know hammered we need more servers you know and so it's interesting to see blue sky and so it's interesting to see blue sky and so it's interesting to see blue sky as as a little tiny startup and as it's

as as a little tiny startup and as it's as as a little tiny startup and as it's adding you know millions or tens of adding you know millions or tens of adding you know millions or tens of millions of people in a short period of millions of people in a short period of millions of people in a short period of time you know how how they deal with time you know how how they deal with time you know how how they deal with scale if you remember the early days of scale if you remember the early days of scale if you remember the early days of Twitter do you ever a lot of these Twitter do you ever a lot of these Twitter do you ever a lot of these platforms remember they all just started platforms remember they all just started platforms remember they all just started on the web before they had an app you on the web before they had an app you on the web before they had an app you know do you remember long in Twitter a know do you remember long in Twitter a know do you remember long in Twitter a long time ago you'd see a fail whale long time ago you'd see a fail whale long time ago you'd see a fail whale graphic come on the screen oh yeah yeah graphic come on the screen oh yeah yeah graphic come on the screen oh yeah yeah yeah yeah uhhuh it's it's because of yeah yeah uhhuh it's it's because of yeah yeah uhhuh it's it's because of errors and scalability problems so it errors and scalability problems so it errors and scalability problems so it was just like oh my God there's now 100 was just like oh my God there's now 100 was just like oh my God there's now 100 million people but the software and the million people but the software and the million people but the software and the servers can only handle 20 million you servers can only handle 20 million you servers can only handle 20 million you know whatever and so you kept seeing the know whatever and so you kept seeing the know whatever and so you kept seeing the fail whe all the time um was also fail whe all the time um was also fail whe all the time um was also because they originally built it on Ruby because they originally built it on Ruby because they originally built it on Ruby on Rails which is an easy way to build on Rails which is an easy way to build on Rails which is an easy way to build something fast but it's not fast it's something fast but it's not fast it's something fast but it's not fast it's not scalable it's not great software you not scalable it's not great software you not scalable it's not great software you know and so they I remember they know and so they I remember they know and so they I remember they remember when they rewrote it I think in remember when they rewrote it I think in remember when they rewrote it I think in Java actually um I'm just rambling here Java actually um I'm just rambling here Java actually um I'm just rambling here this is more this is more Tech History this is more this is more Tech History this is more this is more Tech History but but Tech architecture and stuff like but but Tech architecture and stuff like but but Tech architecture and stuff like that so this is something but we're all that so this is something but we're all that so this is something but we're all watching this happen in real time there watching this happen in real time there watching this happen in real time there is this there is this movement to Blue is this there is this movement to Blue is this there is this movement to Blue Sky now Blue Sky what are they going to Sky now Blue Sky what are they going to Sky now Blue Sky what are they going to do next it's going to be like that scene do next it's going to be like that scene do next it's going to be like that scene in Social Network where a wardo come in in Social Network where a wardo come in in Social Network where a wardo come in and says it's time to monetize the site and says it's time to monetize the site and says it's time to monetize the site yeah and that's got to happen for Blue yeah and that's got to happen for Blue yeah and that's got to happen for Blue Sky if they want to survive and you know Sky if they want to survive and you know Sky if they want to survive and you know what they should do they should just what they should do they should just what they should do they should just again you put out a again you put out a again you put out a subscription some people pay that the subscription some people pay that the subscription some people pay that the whole thing people really want to avoid whole thing people really want to avoid whole thing people really want to avoid having to do to deal with the having to do to deal with the having to do to deal with the advertisers and have advertisers poison advertisers and have advertisers poison advertisers and have advertisers poison that

that that Network pay a subscription you know it's Network pay a subscription you know it's Network pay a subscription you know it's like freaking you know and then if you like freaking you know and then if you like freaking you know and then if you don't like them you know go somewhere don't like them you know go somewhere don't like them you know go somewhere else and what was the other thing that else and what was the other thing that else and what was the other thing that irritated people who originally loved irritated people who originally loved irritated people who originally loved Twitter and they originally loved Twitter and they originally loved Twitter and they originally loved Facebook is when they started Facebook is when they started Facebook is when they started introducing algorithms and to show to introducing algorithms and to show to introducing algorithms and to show to say the algorithm is going to what say the algorithm is going to what say the algorithm is going to what you're seeing in your feed versus you're seeing in your feed versus you're seeing in your feed versus remember in the old days it was just remember in the old days it was just remember in the old days it was just kind of sequential it was just your kind of sequential it was just your kind of sequential it was just your friends your friends and it was just friends your friends and it was just friends your friends and it was just based on time stamps historical and based on time stamps historical and based on time stamps historical and people love that yeah um you know but people love that yeah um you know but people love that yeah um you know but maybe it wasn't good for making money maybe it wasn't good for making money maybe it wasn't good for making money for no it's super aggressive the Twitter for no it's super aggressive the Twitter for no it's super aggressive the Twitter algorithm actually yeah I hate that well algorithm actually yeah I hate that well algorithm actually yeah I hate that well LinkedIn too LinkedIn has changed LinkedIn too LinkedIn has changed LinkedIn too LinkedIn has changed tremendously I mean I have my audience tremendously I mean I have my audience tremendously I mean I have my audience uh on LinkedIn organic that was before uh on LinkedIn organic that was before uh on LinkedIn organic that was before really went Bonkers with the the um really went Bonkers with the the um really went Bonkers with the the um algorithms and that's how I grew my algorithms and that's how I grew my algorithms and that's how I grew my audience and people were really audience and people were really audience and people were really interested in what I was saying and and interested in what I was saying and and interested in what I was saying and and then they started layering all these then they started layering all these then they started layering all these other you know controls as well as um other you know controls as well as um other you know controls as well as um filters and next thing you know they're filters and next thing you know they're filters and next thing you know they're controlling the conversation rather than controlling the conversation rather than controlling the conversation rather than empowering the community to you know empowering the community to you know empowering the community to you know reward or um have uh people that they reward or um have uh people that they reward or um have uh people that they want to follow be visible you know I've want to follow be visible you know I've want to follow be visible you know I've actually had people say how come you actually had people say how come you actually had people say how come you don't uh post anything on LinkedIn

don't uh post anything on LinkedIn don't uh post anything on LinkedIn anymore I said you gotta be effing anymore I said you gotta be effing anymore I said you gotta be effing kidding me right and it's the that hides kidding me right and it's the that hides kidding me right and it's the that hides it and you can see it in the type of it and you can see it in the type of it and you can see it in the type of post if I if I put a a post of like uh post if I if I put a a post of like uh post if I if I put a a post of like uh uh you know some delicious looking food uh you know some delicious looking food uh you know some delicious looking food or a car dude I I'll just get or a car dude I I'll just get or a car dude I I'll just get ridiculous um you know views right but ridiculous um you know views right but ridiculous um you know views right but then if I put anything then if I put anything then if I put anything serious it's like serious it's like serious it's like freaking fra you right something the freaking fra you right something the freaking fra you right something the most important post of your life you most important post of your life you most important post of your life you spent hours crafting it and like five spent hours crafting it and like five spent hours crafting it and like five people like it but if you put something people like it but if you put something people like it but if you put something stupid on there you know a million stupid on there you know a million stupid on there you know a million people like and that it wasn't like that people like and that it wasn't like that people like and that it wasn't like that on LinkedIn before I I used to get on LinkedIn before I I used to get on LinkedIn before I I used to get hundreds and hundreds of likes and and hundreds and hundreds of likes and and hundreds and hundreds of likes and and you know repost everything yeah you know repost everything yeah you know repost everything yeah and now you have to pay and now you have to pay and now you have to pay LinkedIn because now it's become a an ad LinkedIn because now it's become a an ad LinkedIn because now it's become a an ad engine and it's it's pretty much so why engine and it's it's pretty much so why engine and it's it's pretty much so why don't we why don't we do this since don't we why don't we do this since don't we why don't we do this since we're smarter than most everybody on the we're smarter than most everybody on the we're smarter than most everybody on the planet here at iot coffee talk over the planet here at iot coffee talk over the planet here at iot coffee talk over the weekend we'll put together our own weekend we'll put together our own weekend we'll put together our own version of Twitter software and we'll version of Twitter software and we'll version of Twitter software and we'll put it out there and then following put it out there and then following put it out there and then following Leonard's idea we'll make it a Leonard's idea we'll make it a Leonard's idea we'll make it a subscription based thing and and but it subscription based thing and and but it subscription based thing and and but it then but but but cheap like will you pay then but but but cheap like will you pay then but but but cheap like will you pay 99 cents a month sure you know whatever 99 cents a month sure you know whatever 99 cents a month sure you know whatever we'll fig some some number but it's got we'll fig some some number but it's got we'll fig some some number but it's got to be so inexpensive that people are to be so inexpensive that people are to be so inexpensive that people are like okay no big deal um and then we'll like okay no big deal um and then we'll like okay no big deal um and then we'll just keep it sequential yeah so you see

just keep it sequential yeah so you see just keep it sequential yeah so you see your friends and stuff like that um your friends and stuff like that um your friends and stuff like that um we'll use all of the nonaccelerated we'll use all of the nonaccelerated we'll use all of the nonaccelerated Computing data centers that are going to Computing data centers that are going to Computing data centers that are going to be Dirt Cheap uh are actually um be Dirt Cheap uh are actually um be Dirt Cheap uh are actually um scalable they're already scaled out so scalable they're already scaled out so scalable they're already scaled out so yeah we'll we'll just take all that yeah we'll we'll just take all that yeah we'll we'll just take all that while everyone else is pursuing The while everyone else is pursuing The while everyone else is pursuing The Accelerated Computing that costs a crap Accelerated Computing that costs a crap Accelerated Computing that costs a crap ton of money and um will require nuclear ton of money and um will require nuclear ton of money and um will require nuclear power to power all these things exactly power to power all these things exactly power to power all these things exactly exactly we won't need nuclear power for exactly we won't need nuclear power for exactly we won't need nuclear power for ours we'll just use whatever is left and ours we'll just use whatever is left and ours we'll just use whatever is left and you know we'll just have hamster you know we'll just have hamster you know we'll just have hamster hamsters and the hamster wheel hamsters and the hamster wheel hamsters and the hamster wheel generating electricity for ours that's generating electricity for ours that's generating electricity for ours that's all we need yeah do you think that sound all we need yeah do you think that sound all we need yeah do you think that sound like a like a like a plan uh uh I like the idea and we'll plan uh uh I like the idea and we'll plan uh uh I like the idea and we'll have to reach out to all our friends and have to reach out to all our friends and have to reach out to all our friends and then we and then but and then we'll have then we and then but and then we'll have then we and then but and then we'll have different groups and topics and stuff different groups and topics and stuff different groups and topics and stuff like that over time and you know we can like that over time and you know we can like that over time and you know we can drill into things like that and yeah drill into things like that and yeah drill into things like that and yeah it'll be just you know like like Jack it'll be just you know like like Jack it'll be just you know like like Jack dorsy and all them talked about they dorsy and all them talked about they dorsy and all them talked about they built Twitter for fun just for each built Twitter for fun just for each built Twitter for fun just for each other to communicate with their buddies other to communicate with their buddies other to communicate with their buddies and uh you know it could be like that and uh you know it could be like that and uh you know it could be like that it's interesting when you watch Facebook it's interesting when you watch Facebook it's interesting when you watch Facebook now and I have friends that say I'm now and I have friends that say I'm now and I have friends that say I'm counting counting counting how many posts of ads or these groups or how many posts of ads or these groups or how many posts of ads or these groups or whatever I see between when I see whatever I see between when I see whatever I see between when I see something from a friend and some people something from a friend and some people something from a friend and some people are like yeah I S it was I saw I counted are like yeah I S it was I saw I counted are like yeah I S it was I saw I counted 10 or I counted 15 before I saw

10 or I counted 15 before I saw 10 or I counted 15 before I saw something from an actual human being something from an actual human being something from an actual human being again um which is interesting because in again um which is interesting because in again um which is interesting because in the near term it's boosting profits for the near term it's boosting profits for the near term it's boosting profits for Zuck but if it goes on too long it could Zuck but if it goes on too long it could Zuck but if it goes on too long it could kill Facebook because people will throw kill Facebook because people will throw kill Facebook because people will throw up their hands and go I don't even know up their hands and go I don't even know up their hands and go I don't even know why I'm here but I know why some of the why I'm here but I know why some of the why I'm here but I know why some of the stuff you're seeing on Facebook is there stuff you're seeing on Facebook is there stuff you're seeing on Facebook is there they're competing in fact everyone they're competing in fact everyone they're competing in fact everyone arguably might be competing with a arguably might be competing with a arguably might be competing with a monster that is overwhelming all of monster that is overwhelming all of monster that is overwhelming all of social media in a totally different way social media in a totally different way social media in a totally different way and that's Tik and that's Tik and that's Tik Tock Tik Tock came out of left field Tock Tik Tock came out of left field Tock Tik Tock came out of left field bite dance those guys are AI Geniuses bite dance those guys are AI Geniuses bite dance those guys are AI Geniuses and then they built Tik Tok using their and then they built Tik Tok using their and then they built Tik Tok using their AI engine and they the way they attract AI engine and they the way they attract AI engine and they the way they attract people isn't based on your friends they people isn't based on your friends they people isn't based on your friends they attract People based on these are the attract People based on these are the attract People based on these are the videos and the kind of things that we videos and the kind of things that we videos and the kind of things that we know who our AI that you want to look at know who our AI that you want to look at know who our AI that you want to look at and it totally I I would highly and it totally I I would highly and it totally I I would highly recommend you know we all listen to recommend you know we all listen to recommend you know we all listen to podcast I love the acquired podcast by podcast I love the acquired podcast by podcast I love the acquired podcast by the two guys from madona Adventures the the two guys from madona Adventures the the two guys from madona Adventures the a recent one is about meta and Zuck a recent one is about meta and Zuck a recent one is about meta and Zuck specifically and so there's some specifically and so there's some specifically and so there's some interesting behind the scenes deals but interesting behind the scenes deals but interesting behind the scenes deals but they talked about how they were able to they talked about how they were able to they talked about how they were able to counter like Snapchat came up or others counter like Snapchat came up or others counter like Snapchat came up or others you know they would just copy their you know they would just copy their you know they would just copy their features and put them into Facebook and features and put them into Facebook and features and put them into Facebook and that's how they would succeed because it that's how they would succeed because it that's how they would succeed because it was still based on social networking Tik was still based on social networking Tik was still based on social networking Tik talk is a different animal talk is a different animal talk is a different animal altoe it's not based on friends I mean altoe it's not based on friends I mean altoe it's not based on friends I mean you can have friends but it's it's a

you can have friends but it's it's a you can have friends but it's it's a it's based on something totally it's based on something totally it's based on something totally different and so and it's grabbing different and so and it's grabbing different and so and it's grabbing eyeballs in the end what is this is all eyeballs in the end what is this is all eyeballs in the end what is this is all about eyeballs for them right for about eyeballs for them right for about eyeballs for them right for advertising um it'll be interesting to advertising um it'll be interesting to advertising um it'll be interesting to see how this plays out yeah I think it's see how this plays out yeah I think it's see how this plays out yeah I think it's a great application of uh scops type uh a great application of uh scops type uh a great application of uh scops type uh type methods you know when no longer type methods you know when no longer type methods you know when no longer becomes about your friends and your becomes about your friends and your becomes about your friends and your connections and people and it's all connections and people and it's all connections and people and it's all about like base interests you know that about like base interests you know that about like base interests you know that yeah it's that that's like getting in yeah it's that that's like getting in yeah it's that that's like getting in the minds of people do you know rather the minds of people do you know rather the minds of people do you know rather than providing a tool for people to than providing a tool for people to than providing a tool for people to connect and have you know um Community connect and have you know um Community connect and have you know um Community you're right get in the minds of people you're right get in the minds of people you're right get in the minds of people and Tik Tok does that very well yeah and Tik Tok does that very well yeah and Tik Tok does that very well yeah it's like a BL now that you think about it's like a BL now that you think about it's like a BL now that you think about now that you say it it's like a blend of now that you say it it's like a blend of now that you say it it's like a blend of YouTube and what Facebook does and YouTube and what Facebook does and YouTube and what Facebook does and that's why YouTube and that's why YouTube and that's why YouTube and Facebook um have been trying to try to Facebook um have been trying to try to Facebook um have been trying to try to converge their stuff into something that converge their stuff into something that converge their stuff into something that looks like uh Tik Tok right I mean Tik looks like uh Tik Tok right I mean Tik looks like uh Tik Tok right I mean Tik Tok is Tok is Tok is still um yeah I mean both sides are still um yeah I mean both sides are still um yeah I mean both sides are still struggling to replicate Tik Tok is still struggling to replicate Tik Tok is still struggling to replicate Tik Tok is done it's amazing done it's amazing done it's amazing yeah yeah yeah economy all right on on that note I economy all right on on that note I economy all right on on that note I think um that's an episode so yeah uh think um that's an episode so yeah uh think um that's an episode so yeah uh Happy Thanksgiving everyone who actually Happy Thanksgiving everyone who actually Happy Thanksgiving everyone who actually celebrates it and cares about it we do

celebrates it and cares about it we do celebrates it and cares about it we do and uh we hope uh you have a wonderful and uh we hope uh you have a wonderful and uh we hope uh you have a wonderful holiday season um we're going to still holiday season um we're going to still holiday season um we're going to still plow through the season with episodes of plow through the season with episodes of plow through the season with episodes of iot coffee talk because we're just iot coffee talk because we're just iot coffee talk because we're just persistent that way persistent that way persistent that way and we hope that you look forward to our and we hope that you look forward to our and we hope that you look forward to our special holiday episodes especially the special holiday episodes especially the special holiday episodes especially the Christmas one where we do you know a Christmas one where we do you know a Christmas one where we do you know a really terrible version of Jingle Bells really terrible version of Jingle Bells really terrible version of Jingle Bells you don't want to miss out on that one you don't want to miss out on that one you don't want to miss out on that one you know uh and then of course our New you know uh and then of course our New you know uh and then of course our New Year's special so you'll want to tune in Year's special so you'll want to tune in Year's special so you'll want to tune in to those and remember this is the season to those and remember this is the season to those and remember this is the season of giving so please consider giving to of giving so please consider giving to of giving so please consider giving to elevate our kids at www. elevate our kids at www. elevate our kids at www. atar kids.org and remember if you're not atar kids.org and remember if you're not atar kids.org and remember if you're not into charity but into fashion let's say into charity but into fashion let's say into charity but into fashion let's say that you don't have the Christmas spirit that you don't have the Christmas spirit that you don't have the Christmas spirit but you like to look good pick up some but you like to look good pick up some but you like to look good pick up some iot coffee talk merch on the elevator iot coffee talk merch on the elevator iot coffee talk merch on the elevator our kids website and you will our kids website and you will our kids website and you will indirectly be helping kids K through2 in indirectly be helping kids K through2 in indirectly be helping kids K through2 in underserved and uner communities uh underserved and uner communities uh underserved and uner communities uh participate in our digital everything participate in our digital everything participate in our digital everything our wonderful dig digital world and be our wonderful dig digital world and be our wonderful dig digital world and be connected I wonder Leonard should we connected I wonder Leonard should we connected I wonder Leonard should we come up with like iot coffee talk come up with like iot coffee talk come up with like iot coffee talk Christmas socks yeah people people love Christmas socks yeah people people love Christmas socks yeah people people love to wear silly socks you know you never to wear silly socks you know you never to wear silly socks you know you never know that's a a good idea or a toque a know that's a a good idea or a toque a know that's a a good idea or a toque a hat the tobogan hats and stuff like that

hat the tobogan hats and stuff like that hat the tobogan hats and stuff like that quite honestly in a Tik Tok world that quite honestly in a Tik Tok world that quite honestly in a Tik Tok world that might just that might do it people that might just that might do it people that might just that might do it people that might do it and then the weirdest thing might do it and then the weirdest thing might do it and then the weirdest thing I just saw here and it shows you how I just saw here and it shows you how I just saw here and it shows you how distorted my brain is when I saw mark distorted my brain is when I saw mark distorted my brain is when I saw mark you did the Jingle Bells I think Mark you did the Jingle Bells I think Mark you did the Jingle Bells I think Mark was maybe kind of doing a jingle bell was maybe kind of doing a jingle bell was maybe kind of doing a jingle bell thing but you know what my brain thought thing but you know what my brain thought thing but you know what my brain thought he was doing whooped up gam style who oh my god well hey you know he blew who oh my god well hey you know he blew up manai blew up and he brought K-pop to up manai blew up and he brought K-pop to up manai blew up and he brought K-pop to the universe that totally that totally the universe that totally that totally the universe that totally that totally blew up out of TI talk no it was way blew up out of TI talk no it was way blew up out of TI talk no it was way before Tik Tok oh it was YouTube but it before Tik Tok oh it was YouTube but it before Tik Tok oh it was YouTube but it was YouTube yeah Debbie so glad that was YouTube yeah Debbie so glad that was YouTube yeah Debbie so glad that Friday is working out for you um so Friday is working out for you um so Friday is working out for you um so anyways happy holidays everyone have a anyways happy holidays everyone have a anyways happy holidays everyone have a great weekend and we'll see you next great weekend and we'll see you next great weekend and we'll see you next week happy Holidays happy holidays adios