Oliver Anthony: Country Music, Blue-Collar America, Fame, Money, and Pain | Lex Fridman Podcast #469

The following is a conversation with The following is a conversation with Oliver Anthony, singer songwriter from Oliver Anthony, singer songwriter from Oliver Anthony, singer songwriter from Virginia, who first gained worldwide Virginia, who first gained worldwide Virginia, who first gained worldwide fame with his viral hit Rich Men North fame with his viral hit Rich Men North fame with his viral hit Rich Men North of Richmond. He became a voice for many of Richmond. He became a voice for many of Richmond. He became a voice for many who are voiceless with his songs who are voiceless with his songs who are voiceless with his songs speaking to the struggle of the working speaking to the struggle of the working speaking to the struggle of the working class in modern American life. His legal class in modern American life. His legal class in modern American life. His legal name is Christopher Anthony Lansford. name is Christopher Anthony Lansford. name is Christopher Anthony Lansford. Oliver Anthony was his grandfather's Oliver Anthony was his grandfather's Oliver Anthony was his grandfather's name. And so Chris used this name as a name. And so Chris used this name as a name. And so Chris used this name as a dedication to his grandfather and to dedication to his grandfather and to dedication to his grandfather and to 1930s Appalachia where his grandfather 1930s Appalachia where his grandfather 1930s Appalachia where his grandfather was born and raised. Dirt floors, seven was born and raised. Dirt floors, seven was born and raised. Dirt floors, seven kids, hard times. As Chris says, he's kids, hard times. As Chris says, he's kids, hard times. As Chris says, he's happy to be called either one, by the happy to be called either one, by the happy to be called either one, by the way. I've gotten to know Chris more way. I've gotten to know Chris more way. I've gotten to know Chris more since the recording of this since the recording of this since the recording of this conversation. He truly is, as he appears conversation. He truly is, as he appears conversation. He truly is, as he appears online and in his songs, down to earth, online and in his songs, down to earth, online and in his songs, down to earth, humble, and a good man who deeply feels humble, and a good man who deeply feels humble, and a good man who deeply feels the pain of the the pain of the the pain of the downtrodden. This is a Lex Freedman downtrodden. This is a Lex Freedman downtrodden. This is a Lex Freedman podcast. To support it, please check out podcast. To support it, please check out podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And our sponsors in the description. And our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Christopher now, dear friends, here's Christopher now, dear friends, here's Christopher Lford, or as many of you know him as Lford, or as many of you know him as Lford, or as many of you know him as Oliver Anthony.

Oliver Anthony. Oliver Anthony. So, I was texting you uh last night uh So, I was texting you uh last night uh So, I was texting you uh last night uh sitting at an open mic listening to a sitting at an open mic listening to a sitting at an open mic listening to a guy perform Great Balls of Fire. Uh like guy perform Great Balls of Fire. Uh like guy perform Great Balls of Fire. Uh like I told you, he was giving everything he I told you, he was giving everything he I told you, he was giving everything he got for like five people in the audience got for like five people in the audience got for like five people in the audience plus me. Well, you were there. I'd been plus me. Well, you were there. I'd been plus me. Well, you were there. I'd been I'd have been doing it, too, if you were I'd have been doing it, too, if you were I'd have been doing it, too, if you were out there like, "Oh, that's Lex out there like, "Oh, that's Lex out there like, "Oh, that's Lex Freeman." No, man. He was uh this big Freeman." No, man. He was uh this big Freeman." No, man. He was uh this big dude on a keyboard just everything. dude on a keyboard just everything. dude on a keyboard just everything. Sweaty, long hair. You could tell like Sweaty, long hair. You could tell like Sweaty, long hair. You could tell like he was there in his own little world. I he was there in his own little world. I he was there in his own little world. I love the courage of that of just giving love the courage of that of just giving love the courage of that of just giving it everything. I don't think he wants to it everything. I don't think he wants to it everything. I don't think he wants to be famous. I don't think he wants be famous. I don't think he wants be famous. I don't think he wants anything in life except to be there and anything in life except to be there and anything in life except to be there and to play like his heart out. That's why I to play like his heart out. That's why I to play like his heart out. That's why I love open mics. Like some people still love open mics. Like some people still love open mics. Like some people still aspire to be famous when they play open aspire to be famous when they play open aspire to be famous when they play open mics, but some people maybe they've mics, but some people maybe they've mics, but some people maybe they've given up or maybe they never wanted to given up or maybe they never wanted to given up or maybe they never wanted to be famous. They're just there for the be famous. They're just there for the be famous. They're just there for the pure artistry of it. So yeah. And you pure artistry of it. So yeah. And you pure artistry of it. So yeah. And you said you started out playing open mics. said you started out playing open mics. said you started out playing open mics. What at Shady Bars? What was that like? What at Shady Bars? What was that like? What at Shady Bars? What was that like? Well, yeah. Real quick before I forget Well, yeah. Real quick before I forget Well, yeah. Real quick before I forget to a great example of a of a guy who had to a great example of a of a guy who had to a great example of a of a guy who had that same mindset and was able to that same mindset and was able to that same mindset and was able to maintain it really well is this mandolin maintain it really well is this mandolin maintain it really well is this mandolin player named Johnny Stats in West player named Johnny Stats in West player named Johnny Stats in West Virginia. to me he's one of the best and Virginia. to me he's one of the best and Virginia. to me he's one of the best and he's won all these awards and stuff and he's won all these awards and stuff and he's won all these awards and stuff and he still works for UPS full-time and he still works for UPS full-time and he still works for UPS full-time and like he could go out and tour with play like he could go out and tour with play like he could go out and tour with play man for anybody he wanted to but he but man for anybody he wanted to but he but man for anybody he wanted to but he but man when you meet Johnny like you can man when you meet Johnny like you can man when you meet Johnny like you can tell he's just got this um this joy in tell he's just got this um this joy in tell he's just got this um this joy in him that I don't think he would have if him that I don't think he would have if him that I don't think he would have if he but as far as me with the open mics he but as far as me with the open mics he but as far as me with the open mics um yeah it was just it was a lot of them

um yeah it was just it was a lot of them um yeah it was just it was a lot of them were really a lot of them were were really a lot of them were were really a lot of them were embarrassing there was couple I remember embarrassing there was couple I remember embarrassing there was couple I remember there was times where I'd go up and try there was times where I'd go up and try there was times where I'd go up and try to do I do like one song I get like to do I do like one song I get like to do I do like one song I get like halfway through the next song and I'd be halfway through the next song and I'd be halfway through the next song and I'd be so nervous by that point. I didn't I so nervous by that point. I didn't I so nervous by that point. I didn't I couldn't remember any of the words. And couldn't remember any of the words. And couldn't remember any of the words. And there's a couple times I I remember there's a couple times I I remember there's a couple times I I remember there was one time in particular that I there was one time in particular that I there was one time in particular that I just I just walked off halfway through just I just walked off halfway through just I just walked off halfway through the song, put my guitar in the case and the song, put my guitar in the case and the song, put my guitar in the case and just I just left. I didn't even like just I just left. I didn't even like just I just left. I didn't even like couldn't even stay in there. Just total, couldn't even stay in there. Just total, couldn't even stay in there. Just total, you know, just total freak out. Just you know, just total freak out. Just you know, just total freak out. Just embarrassment. And I never drank in bars embarrassment. And I never drank in bars embarrassment. And I never drank in bars either. Like I'm not a I wasn't really a either. Like I'm not a I wasn't really a either. Like I'm not a I wasn't really a social drinker. So I was just there to social drinker. So I was just there to social drinker. So I was just there to try to do the mic. So it was it was kind try to do the mic. So it was it was kind try to do the mic. So it was it was kind of I was a little out of place anyway. I of I was a little out of place anyway. I of I was a little out of place anyway. I feel kind of out of place in a bar to feel kind of out of place in a bar to feel kind of out of place in a bar to start with. So yeah, this back when you start with. So yeah, this back when you start with. So yeah, this back when you could smoke in bars. There's a whole could smoke in bars. There's a whole could smoke in bars. There's a whole vibe to it. People smoking, drinking and vibe to it. People smoking, drinking and vibe to it. People smoking, drinking and Yeah, definitely. You know, bombing in a Yeah, definitely. You know, bombing in a Yeah, definitely. You know, bombing in a place like that when the place like that when the place like that when the audience there's like five people and audience there's like five people and audience there's like five people and they're bored. Yeah, there was one like they're bored. Yeah, there was one like they're bored. Yeah, there was one like that. It was in Moka. It wasn't that far that. It was in Moka. It wasn't that far that. It was in Moka. It wasn't that far from where I lived. The place is gone from where I lived. The place is gone from where I lived. The place is gone now, but uh it was about as big as the now, but uh it was about as big as the now, but uh it was about as big as the room we're in here, if that. You know, room we're in here, if that. You know, room we're in here, if that. You know, like the the ceiling tiles were yellow like the the ceiling tiles were yellow like the the ceiling tiles were yellow from where everybody had smoked in it from where everybody had smoked in it from where everybody had smoked in it since the beginning of time. And but since the beginning of time. And but since the beginning of time. And but like Yeah, that was my little spot.

like Yeah, that was my little spot. like Yeah, that was my little spot. Those little type of spots. You did Those little type of spots. You did Those little type of spots. You did covers. What' you play? What was your covers. What' you play? What was your covers. What' you play? What was your go-to back then? It was like uh I don't go-to back then? It was like uh I don't go-to back then? It was like uh I don't know, Fishing in the Dark, Nitty-Gritty know, Fishing in the Dark, Nitty-Gritty know, Fishing in the Dark, Nitty-Gritty Band or like Band or like Band or like um any of those old Hank like Hank Jr. um any of those old Hank like Hank Jr. um any of those old Hank like Hank Jr. songs like any of those bar type um songs like any of those bar type um songs like any of those bar type um David Allen Co like You Never Call Me By David Allen Co like You Never Call Me By David Allen Co like You Never Call Me By My Name, any of that kind of stuff. And My Name, any of that kind of stuff. And My Name, any of that kind of stuff. And I haven't even played any of those in I haven't even played any of those in I haven't even played any of those in forever now. But that was any of those forever now. But that was any of those forever now. But that was any of those ones where you get people singing along ones where you get people singing along ones where you get people singing along and stuff. That's what I'd always try to and stuff. That's what I'd always try to and stuff. That's what I'd always try to do, you know. Yeah. That song you do, you know. Yeah. That song you do, you know. Yeah. That song you performed, Take Me Home, uh, Country performed, Take Me Home, uh, Country performed, Take Me Home, uh, Country Road, How's That Go, West Virginia. Road, How's That Go, West Virginia. Road, How's That Go, West Virginia. Yeah, it's a good song. John Denver was Yeah, it's a good song. John Denver was Yeah, it's a good song. John Denver was just uh, one of those guys that it's who just uh, one of those guys that it's who just uh, one of those guys that it's who knows where he would have went long term knows where he would have went long term knows where he would have went long term if he wouldn't have passed, but you know if he wouldn't have passed, but you know if he wouldn't have passed, but you know what's a fun song that I love? I what's a fun song that I love? I what's a fun song that I love? I shouldn't, but I love is uh, what is it shouldn't, but I love is uh, what is it shouldn't, but I love is uh, what is it like? Thank God I'm a country boy. like? Thank God I'm a country boy. like? Thank God I'm a country boy. I think that's what I liked about John I think that's what I liked about John I think that's what I liked about John Denver was he was a little bit like he Denver was he was a little bit like he Denver was he was a little bit like he let himself be a little bit corny in the let himself be a little bit corny in the let himself be a little bit corny in the spirit of like having fun with it. Like spirit of like having fun with it. Like spirit of like having fun with it. Like um great example, there's this old older um great example, there's this old older um great example, there's this old older guy that not a lot of people have heard guy that not a lot of people have heard guy that not a lot of people have heard of named Roy Clark, but um my farm is of named Roy Clark, but um my farm is of named Roy Clark, but um my farm is like a mile down the road from Roy like a mile down the road from Roy like a mile down the road from Roy Clark's old farm, but he he used to be Clark's old farm, but he he used to be Clark's old farm, but he he used to be on Hehaw. I don't know if you ever heard on Hehaw. I don't know if you ever heard on Hehaw. I don't know if you ever heard of that old show from like the 60s or of that old show from like the 60s or of that old show from like the 60s or whatever, but crazy dude. He could pick whatever, but crazy dude. He could pick whatever, but crazy dude. He could pick any instrument up. Like there's videos any instrument up. Like there's videos any instrument up. Like there's videos on YouTube of him, but he would just sit on YouTube of him, but he would just sit on YouTube of him, but he would just sit there and just pick anything up and just there and just pick anything up and just there and just pick anything up and just rip it to death. But he would always rip it to death. But he would always rip it to death. But he would always just be real silly about it. He never just be real silly about it. He never just be real silly about it. He never had he never took it too never took had he never took it too never took had he never took it too never took himself too seriously. You know, some himself too seriously. You know, some himself too seriously. You know, some people go to the fun place. Some people people go to the fun place. Some people people go to the fun place. Some people go to the dark place. Yeah. It's a you go to the dark place. Yeah. It's a you go to the dark place. Yeah. It's a you know, country can do both. You you more

know, country can do both. You you more know, country can do both. You you more often go to the dark place to to the to often go to the dark place to to the to often go to the dark place to to the to the pain. Yeah. Well, especially some of the pain. Yeah. Well, especially some of the pain. Yeah. Well, especially some of the new songs that are coming out that the new songs that are coming out that the new songs that are coming out that they'll be probably not I mean, I don't they'll be probably not I mean, I don't they'll be probably not I mean, I don't know what they'll be. I don't know what know what they'll be. I don't know what know what they'll be. I don't know what is country anymore anyway. I don't know is country anymore anyway. I don't know is country anymore anyway. I don't know that many people who listen to the type that many people who listen to the type that many people who listen to the type of music that I grew up listening to of music that I grew up listening to of music that I grew up listening to probably listen to country radio anymore probably listen to country radio anymore probably listen to country radio anymore anyway. Like I think there's there's anyway. Like I think there's there's anyway. Like I think there's there's quite a lot of people who don't who sort quite a lot of people who don't who sort quite a lot of people who don't who sort of disowned that space. You know, in of disowned that space. You know, in of disowned that space. You know, in commercialized country, you only really commercialized country, you only really commercialized country, you only really get what sells, which and a lot of what get what sells, which and a lot of what get what sells, which and a lot of what sells isn't necessarily what matters. sells isn't necessarily what matters. sells isn't necessarily what matters. Well, you had that whole experience Well, you had that whole experience Well, you had that whole experience where they take what you recorded and where they take what you recorded and where they take what you recorded and polish it, quote unquote, try to make it polish it, quote unquote, try to make it polish it, quote unquote, try to make it perfect and in so doing destroy the soul perfect and in so doing destroy the soul perfect and in so doing destroy the soul of the thing. And so probably that of the thing. And so probably that of the thing. And so probably that happens with these big artists. They're happens with these big artists. They're happens with these big artists. They're so famous. It's like a machine. And so so famous. It's like a machine. And so so famous. It's like a machine. And so what the machine does is it overpolishes what the machine does is it overpolishes what the machine does is it overpolishes things. And so the things. And so the things. And so the raw like power of the person, the raw like power of the person, the raw like power of the person, the uniqueness of the person, the soul of uniqueness of the person, the soul of uniqueness of the person, the soul of the person is gone if you do that. Yeah.

the person is gone if you do that. Yeah. the person is gone if you do that. Yeah. Well, prof I think professionalism in Well, prof I think professionalism in Well, prof I think professionalism in like applying the tactic the tactics of like applying the tactic the tactics of like applying the tactic the tactics of corporate America to anything that is corporate America to anything that is corporate America to anything that is yeah baseline artistic is not going to yeah baseline artistic is not going to yeah baseline artistic is not going to end well. They're all individually end well. They're all individually end well. They're all individually brilliant but together this corporate brilliant but together this corporate brilliant but together this corporate speak comes out. Yeah. Just the soul of speak comes out. Yeah. Just the soul of speak comes out. Yeah. Just the soul of the people dissipates. It like the people dissipates. It like the people dissipates. It like disappears. Why are you all pretending disappears. Why are you all pretending disappears. Why are you all pretending that like life is not terrible and that like life is not terrible and that like life is not terrible and beautiful and like you're both scared beautiful and like you're both scared beautiful and like you're both scared shitless and excited and this guy's shitless and excited and this guy's shitless and excited and this guy's going through a divorce. This person going through a divorce. This person going through a divorce. This person just fell in love. Like you're getting just fell in love. Like you're getting just fell in love. Like you're getting the intensity of life with this the intensity of life with this the intensity of life with this corporate like 9 to5. Like hi John, it's corporate like 9 to5. Like hi John, it's corporate like 9 to5. Like hi John, it's great to see you great to see you great to see you today. Oh, you too. you as well. You as today. Oh, you too. you as well. You as today. Oh, you too. you as well. You as well. But when I look at it, I'm like, well. But when I look at it, I'm like, well. But when I look at it, I'm like, why am I whining? I I feel like a why am I whining? I I feel like a why am I whining? I I feel like a Bukovski type character because like Bukovski type character because like Bukovski type character because like they're all really nice. They're all they're all really nice. They're all they're all really nice. They're all good people, but like something is gone good people, but like something is gone good people, but like something is gone when you have this corporate machine.

when you have this corporate machine. when you have this corporate machine. Well, they're they're there to fill a Well, they're they're there to fill a Well, they're they're there to fill a role contractually. And if they I think role contractually. And if they I think role contractually. And if they I think if they bring too many of their human if they bring too many of their human if they bring too many of their human elements into that, then they jeopardize elements into that, then they jeopardize elements into that, then they jeopardize losing their sense of security. And it's losing their sense of security. And it's losing their sense of security. And it's all just out of fear. It's out of fear all just out of fear. It's out of fear all just out of fear. It's out of fear of losing your job. I mean, it's the of losing your job. I mean, it's the of losing your job. I mean, it's the reason why all the songs say Oliver reason why all the songs say Oliver reason why all the songs say Oliver Anthony and not Christopher Lunford on Anthony and not Christopher Lunford on Anthony and not Christopher Lunford on them, you know, like it's fear of it's them, you know, like it's fear of it's them, you know, like it's fear of it's so difficult to especially now it seems so difficult to especially now it seems so difficult to especially now it seems and I mean, who knows? I didn't I was and I mean, who knows? I didn't I was and I mean, who knows? I didn't I was never around in the 40s or 50s to work a never around in the 40s or 50s to work a never around in the 40s or 50s to work a job. I'm sure they were probably pretty job. I'm sure they were probably pretty job. I'm sure they were probably pretty miserable back then, but you know, they miserable back then, but you know, they miserable back then, but you know, they talk about now like how difficult it is talk about now like how difficult it is talk about now like how difficult it is like the the impossibility of having a like the the impossibility of having a like the the impossibility of having a single family household or anything single family household or anything single family household or anything else, but like when you find a decent else, but like when you find a decent else, but like when you find a decent paying job that you can do without it paying job that you can do without it paying job that you can do without it just torturing you every day, that's just torturing you every day, that's just torturing you every day, that's that's a pretty important thing now, you that's a pretty important thing now, you that's a pretty important thing now, you know, like and so it it's pretty easy to know, like and so it it's pretty easy to know, like and so it it's pretty easy to just it's pretty easy to kind of turn just it's pretty easy to kind of turn just it's pretty easy to kind of turn yourself into a robot for eight or 10 yourself into a robot for eight or 10 yourself into a robot for eight or 10 hours a day out of fear of it's like you hours a day out of fear of it's like you hours a day out of fear of it's like you don't want to be yourself too much don't want to be yourself too much don't want to be yourself too much because maybe part of yourself isn't because maybe part of yourself isn't because maybe part of yourself isn't something that's accepted in this like something that's accepted in this like something that's accepted in this like dystopian nightmare that you go to work dystopian nightmare that you go to work dystopian nightmare that you go to work at every day. And so you just got to do at every day. And so you just got to do at every day. And so you just got to do your best to just not step on any toes your best to just not step on any toes your best to just not step on any toes or do anything that that makes you stand or do anything that that makes you stand or do anything that that makes you stand out too much, you know? And now it's out too much, you know? And now it's out too much, you know? And now it's like now like when you scroll through like now like when you scroll through like now like when you scroll through some of these videos of people like the some of these videos of people like the some of these videos of people like the big even when I was still like when I big even when I was still like when I big even when I was still like when I was still working my lame job it was was still working my lame job it was was still working my lame job it was like there was this whole big thing of like there was this whole big thing of like there was this whole big thing of people talking about quiet quitting or people talking about quiet quitting or people talking about quiet quitting or something like that where they were just something like that where they were just something like that where they were just going to go to work but not really do going to go to work but not really do going to go to work but not really do anything. But that hurts me so much.

anything. But that hurts me so much. anything. But that hurts me so much. That hurts me when you just stop when That hurts me when you just stop when That hurts me when you just stop when you're there but you're not really you're there but you're not really you're there but you're not really there. That makes me so sad. Yeah. So there. That makes me so sad. Yeah. So there. That makes me so sad. Yeah. So then they wonder these companies just then they wonder these companies just then they wonder these companies just slowly kind of fall apart and slowly kind of fall apart and slowly kind of fall apart and disintegrate because they're so worried disintegrate because they're so worried disintegrate because they're so worried about structure and you know like I mean about structure and you know like I mean about structure and you know like I mean god man even in even in America today god man even in even in America today god man even in even in America today our culture has become because so many our culture has become because so many our culture has become because so many big corporations own and manage big corporations own and manage big corporations own and manage everything that we live under like food, everything that we live under like food, everything that we live under like food, agriculture, healthcare, like social agriculture, healthcare, like social agriculture, healthcare, like social media it's all in corporate structures media it's all in corporate structures media it's all in corporate structures that it's almost like a lot of the that it's almost like a lot of the that it's almost like a lot of the problems we find ourselves in now with problems we find ourselves in now with problems we find ourselves in now with society I think are like it's just society I think are like it's just society I think are like it's just because of it's almost like h corporate because of it's almost like h corporate because of it's almost like h corporate HR has been implemented into our whole HR has been implemented into our whole HR has been implemented into our whole thought process of everything. You know, thought process of everything. You know, thought process of everything. You know, it's like um I think that's kind of what it's like um I think that's kind of what it's like um I think that's kind of what you're touching on though. It's you're touching on though. It's you're touching on though. It's like it's it's hard to be it's hard to like it's it's hard to be it's hard to like it's it's hard to be it's hard to be a human and be a good little be a human and be a good little be a human and be a good little corporate employee at the same time. Um corporate employee at the same time. Um corporate employee at the same time. Um and as our whole society moves more into and as our whole society moves more into and as our whole society moves more into like becoming a like basically one big like becoming a like basically one big like becoming a like basically one big corporation, it's like you don't want to corporation, it's like you don't want to corporation, it's like you don't want to piss the HR lady off. So, it's a lot piss the HR lady off. So, it's a lot piss the HR lady off. So, it's a lot easier for me to just beep boop. We're easier for me to just beep boop. We're easier for me to just beep boop. We're all sort of just turn we're all turning all sort of just turn we're all turning all sort of just turn we're all turning into robots. you know, and that's I've into robots. you know, and that's I've into robots. you know, and that's I've talked to to great engineers about this.

talked to to great engineers about this. talked to to great engineers about this. Jim Keller is a legendary engineer. Elon Jim Keller is a legendary engineer. Elon Jim Keller is a legendary engineer. Elon Elon Musk is another example that you Elon Musk is another example that you Elon Musk is another example that you need that I don't know what's a nice need that I don't know what's a nice need that I don't know what's a nice term for it, but you need the asshole term for it, but you need the asshole term for it, but you need the asshole because you you want to get to the because you you want to get to the because you you want to get to the ground truth of things to the first ground truth of things to the first ground truth of things to the first principle of things like how do we principle of things like how do we principle of things like how do we simplify? How do we make it more simplify? How do we make it more simplify? How do we make it more efficient? How do we move faster? How do efficient? How do we move faster? How do efficient? How do we move faster? How do we get shit done? And that has no place we get shit done? And that has no place we get shit done? And that has no place for this kind polite speak. And then, for this kind polite speak. And then, for this kind polite speak. And then, you know, other great team members swoop you know, other great team members swoop you know, other great team members swoop in and like repair the damage that the in and like repair the damage that the in and like repair the damage that the tornado has done. Do you think that's tornado has done. Do you think that's tornado has done. Do you think that's cuz I'm not I'm not super wellversed cuz I'm not I'm not super wellversed cuz I'm not I'm not super wellversed about all this, so I'm probably dumb to about all this, so I'm probably dumb to about all this, so I'm probably dumb to even mention it, but um this guy who's even mention it, but um this guy who's even mention it, but um this guy who's been helping me with doing a been helping me with doing a been helping me with doing a documentary, uh he's been following me documentary, uh he's been following me documentary, uh he's been following me around since the very first show at the around since the very first show at the around since the very first show at the August of 23. He his background was August of 23. He his background was August of 23. He his background was doing um promotional videos for Boeing doing um promotional videos for Boeing doing um promotional videos for Boeing like for on their new spacecraft to like for on their new spacecraft to like for on their new spacecraft to pitch it to pitch it to pitch it to whoever. And so he was we touched we whoever. And so he was we touched we whoever. And so he was we touched we touched base a little bit on Boeing and touched base a little bit on Boeing and touched base a little bit on Boeing and of course they're having a lot of of course they're having a lot of of course they're having a lot of problems now it sounds like and he was problems now it sounds like and he was problems now it sounds like and he was comparing that with comparing that with comparing that with SpaceX or with you know like that that I SpaceX or with you know like that that I SpaceX or with you know like that that I I think it's that exactly what we I think it's that exactly what we I think it's that exactly what we touched on with that thought process of touched on with that thought process of touched on with that thought process of that sort of dehumanization within that sort of dehumanization within that sort of dehumanization within companies. I think that's what companies. I think that's what companies. I think that's what ultimately causes maybe I don't know if ultimately causes maybe I don't know if ultimately causes maybe I don't know if there's a connection there or not but it there's a connection there or not but it there's a connection there or not but it seems like Boeing is a very would be seems like Boeing is a very would be seems like Boeing is a very would be more of that they don't have that more of that they don't have that more of that they don't have that tornado they're very like h like he was tornado they're very like h like he was tornado they're very like h like he was telling me even just with his protocols telling me even just with his protocols telling me even just with his protocols and some of the people he worked with and some of the people he worked with and some of the people he worked with like everything's just very you know like everything's just very you know like everything's just very you know lightly touch everything no one you lightly touch everything no one you lightly touch everything no one you don't touch anything too hard so it's

don't touch anything too hard so it's don't touch anything too hard so it's not just HR it's also it's just this not just HR it's also it's just this not just HR it's also it's just this managerial class where it's like Bob managerial class where it's like Bob managerial class where it's like Bob from this department has to schedule a from this department has to schedule a from this department has to schedule a meeting with John from this department meeting with John from this department meeting with John from this department and Debbie and Debbie and Debbie like they have to have a meeting 2 and like they have to have a meeting 2 and like they have to have a meeting 2 and 1/2 weeks from now and then there's 1/2 weeks from now and then there's 1/2 weeks from now and then there's paperwork and then that bureaucracy paperwork and then that bureaucracy paperwork and then that bureaucracy that's created in the managerial class that's created in the managerial class that's created in the managerial class just slows everything down. And one of just slows everything down. And one of just slows everything down. And one of the things that slowing everything down the things that slowing everything down the things that slowing everything down does is it really demotivates the people does is it really demotivates the people does is it really demotivates the people that are actually doing the shit. Like that are actually doing the shit. Like that are actually doing the shit. Like the people on the ground, the engineers the people on the ground, the engineers the people on the ground, the engineers that are building stuff. It's again that are building stuff. It's again that are building stuff. It's again soul-drenching to like be excited, show soul-drenching to like be excited, show soul-drenching to like be excited, show up, and now you hit this wall of up, and now you hit this wall of up, and now you hit this wall of paperwork like you can't you have to paperwork like you can't you have to paperwork like you can't you have to wait for John and Debbie and I forgot wait for John and Debbie and I forgot wait for John and Debbie and I forgot the third guy's name kind of imagined in the third guy's name kind of imagined in the third guy's name kind of imagined in my head uh to have a meeting. It just my head uh to have a meeting. It just my head uh to have a meeting. It just and then you kind of slow down and you and then you kind of slow down and you and then you kind of slow down and you disappear in terms of that fire, that disappear in terms of that fire, that disappear in terms of that fire, that passion that's required to create big passion that's required to create big passion that's required to create big things. So yeah, because they don't things. So yeah, because they don't things. So yeah, because they don't believe there's a lack of leadership and believe there's a lack of leadership and believe there's a lack of leadership and if they don't believe in if they don't if they don't believe in if they don't if they don't believe in if they don't believe in that leadership then why the believe in that leadership then why the believe in that leadership then why the hell would they be motivated? I mean I hell would they be motivated? I mean I hell would they be motivated? I mean I remember remember remember um a while back watching Jaco Wilnick um a while back watching Jaco Wilnick um a while back watching Jaco Wilnick talk about a um talk about that when he talk about a um talk about that when he talk about a um talk about that when he was in leadership when he was leading was in leadership when he was leading was in leadership when he was leading his guys. I think he mentions it in his his guys. I think he mentions it in his his guys. I think he mentions it in his book is probably where I remember seeing book is probably where I remember seeing book is probably where I remember seeing it. Um, one of his books and he talks it. Um, one of his books and he talks it. Um, one of his books and he talks about like how important it was for the

about like how important it was for the about like how important it was for the people under him in rank to believe in people under him in rank to believe in people under him in rank to believe in what he was the actions he was giving what he was the actions he was giving what he was the actions he was giving them even if he necessarily didn't agree them even if he necessarily didn't agree them even if he necessarily didn't agree with them himself. It was like there with them himself. It was like there with them himself. It was like there it's really hard to take orders and go it's really hard to take orders and go it's really hard to take orders and go and like to to have human spirit and and like to to have human spirit and and like to to have human spirit and especially in something that's especially in something that's especially in something that's innovative and not if you if you're innovative and not if you if you're innovative and not if you if you're working for a company where you just working for a company where you just working for a company where you just think everybody's dumb. I mean, I can think everybody's dumb. I mean, I can think everybody's dumb. I mean, I can certainly relate with that. I mean, God, certainly relate with that. I mean, God, certainly relate with that. I mean, God, that's all and in my old job, that's all that's all and in my old job, that's all that's all and in my old job, that's all we did was we spent half our day just we did was we spent half our day just we did was we spent half our day just talking about how how dumb we thought talking about how how dumb we thought talking about how how dumb we thought everybody was that was above us, you everybody was that was above us, you everybody was that was above us, you know? It's like it's easy to fall into know? It's like it's easy to fall into know? It's like it's easy to fall into that in the corporate world. And so, that in the corporate world. And so, that in the corporate world. And so, yeah, the morale gets terrible and and yeah, the morale gets terrible and and yeah, the morale gets terrible and and and everyone suffers as a result of it, and everyone suffers as a result of it, and everyone suffers as a result of it, you know, like the the people at the top you know, like the the people at the top you know, like the the people at the top who are implementing all that who are implementing all that who are implementing all that dysfunction suffer and the people at the dysfunction suffer and the people at the dysfunction suffer and the people at the bottom. It's like it's not good for bottom. It's like it's not good for bottom. It's like it's not good for anybody. I had thought now that I'm anybody. I had thought now that I'm anybody. I had thought now that I'm doing this that I could escape away from doing this that I could escape away from doing this that I could escape away from that. But that exact same mentality and that. But that exact same mentality and that. But that exact same mentality and that dysfunction and that um that that dysfunction and that um that that dysfunction and that um that inefficiency like I still battle it inefficiency like I still battle it inefficiency like I still battle it every day. That's why it takes it takes every day. That's why it takes it takes every day. That's why it takes it takes unique characters to lead the way. Such unique characters to lead the way. Such unique characters to lead the way. Such unique characters are very much needed unique characters are very much needed unique characters are very much needed in the music industry to revolutionize in the music industry to revolutionize in the music industry to revolutionize everything. Cut through the bureaucracy, everything. Cut through the bureaucracy, everything. Cut through the bureaucracy, the bullshit that ultimately is just a the bullshit that ultimately is just a the bullshit that ultimately is just a machine that steals money and doesn't machine that steals money and doesn't machine that steals money and doesn't get any anything done really. Uh we'll get any anything done really. Uh we'll get any anything done really. Uh we'll talk about it. By the way, all the love talk about it. By the way, all the love talk about it. By the way, all the love in the world to Jaco. He's great. I've in the world to Jaco. He's great. I've in the world to Jaco. He's great. I've been going through lots of ups and downs been going through lots of ups and downs been going through lots of ups and downs in life, lots of low points for myself in life, lots of low points for myself in life, lots of low points for myself over the past uh shit, three years over the past uh shit, three years over the past uh shit, three years really, but really, but really, but um uh recently especially. And he always

um uh recently especially. And he always um uh recently especially. And he always texts in this in this very high texts in this in this very high texts in this in this very high testosterone way of like of like, you testosterone way of like of like, you testosterone way of like of like, you good, bro? Just checking in. I mean, good, bro? Just checking in. I mean, good, bro? Just checking in. I mean, he's a good man. He's a good man. He's he's a good man. He's a good man. He's he's a good man. He's a good man. He's obviously an inspiration to millions of obviously an inspiration to millions of obviously an inspiration to millions of people but also just people but also just people but also just um is a good human being himself. So um is a good human being himself. So um is a good human being himself. So maybe one sim one thing that we felt maybe one sim one thing that we felt maybe one sim one thing that we felt similarly I'm just I I would imagine you similarly I'm just I I would imagine you similarly I'm just I I would imagine you way more than me is just feeling like way more than me is just feeling like way more than me is just feeling like like wow I have the ability to influence like wow I have the ability to influence like wow I have the ability to influence or the ability to to to either bring or the ability to to to either bring or the ability to to to either bring truth or to improve people's lives or or truth or to improve people's lives or or truth or to improve people's lives or or you know every word that you say you know every word that you say you know every word that you say sometimes matters so much and you're sometimes matters so much and you're sometimes matters so much and you're just like man I'm an idiot like I don't just like man I'm an idiot like I don't just like man I'm an idiot like I don't like I don't know you know like I would like I don't know you know like I would like I don't know you know like I would have never guessed I mean we were kind have never guessed I mean we were kind have never guessed I mean we were kind of talking about that before about like of talking about that before about like of talking about that before about like it would have for guess that it would it would have for guess that it would it would have for guess that it would have turn that this would have turned have turn that this would have turned have turn that this would have turned into all this but it's it is a it is a into all this but it's it is a it is a into all this but it's it is a it is a it is a weight that you bear whether you it is a weight that you bear whether you it is a weight that you bear whether you really even acknowledge it or not you really even acknowledge it or not you really even acknowledge it or not you know like um yeah and I think is like know like um yeah and I think is like know like um yeah and I think is like you know the the songs you've created you know the the songs you've created you know the the songs you've created they uh speak to the human condition to they uh speak to the human condition to they uh speak to the human condition to the struggle of uh everyday working the struggle of uh everyday working the struggle of uh everyday working people in a society that has the elites people in a society that has the elites people in a society that has the elites that try to take advantage of those that try to take advantage of those that try to take advantage of those working people and You're just speaking working people and You're just speaking working people and You're just speaking through your music those truths of how through your music those truths of how through your music those truths of how life is. And then that has a huge impact life is. And then that has a huge impact life is. And then that has a huge impact on a lot of people. That's really on a lot of people. That's really on a lot of people. That's really positive. But then you also get attacked positive. But then you also get attacked positive. But then you also get attacked and misrepresented and lied about from

and misrepresented and lied about from and misrepresented and lied about from different angles. different angles. different angles. And just the turmoil, the intense chaos And just the turmoil, the intense chaos And just the turmoil, the intense chaos of that, it disorients it. It disorients of that, it disorients it. It disorients of that, it disorients it. It disorients me like to be attacked by very large me like to be attacked by very large me like to be attacked by very large number of people to be lied about to be number of people to be lied about to be number of people to be lied about to be just the it because I love people and just the it because I love people and just the it because I love people and just have I have a general optimism just have I have a general optimism just have I have a general optimism about humanity. It just disorients me about humanity. It just disorients me about humanity. It just disorients me like um it gives me this feeling like I like um it gives me this feeling like I like um it gives me this feeling like I generally just like you said think of generally just like you said think of generally just like you said think of myself as kind of an idiot not really myself as kind of an idiot not really myself as kind of an idiot not really knowing what I'm doing. And when a lot knowing what I'm doing. And when a lot knowing what I'm doing. And when a lot of people tell you that you're correct, of people tell you that you're correct, of people tell you that you're correct, you don't know what you're doing, you you don't know what you're doing, you you don't know what you're doing, you start to like want to hide. You want to start to like want to hide. You want to start to like want to hide. You want to hide from the world, hide from yourself. hide from the world, hide from yourself. hide from the world, hide from yourself. And then there's also just the the And then there's also just the the And then there's also just the the chemistry of the brain. It's like you chemistry of the brain. It's like you chemistry of the brain. It's like you shake up the brain a little bit. It shake up the brain a little bit. It shake up the brain a little bit. It starts getting it starts getting weird. starts getting it starts getting weird. starts getting it starts getting weird. And so it can get on many uh fronts, it And so it can get on many uh fronts, it And so it can get on many uh fronts, it can get real lonely when you're getting can get real lonely when you're getting can get real lonely when you're getting attacked, when you're kind of fucking attacked, when you're kind of fucking attacked, when you're kind of fucking things up. in many ways it can get things up. in many ways it can get things up. in many ways it can get lonely. Yeah. So it's been so you get a lonely. Yeah. So it's been so you get a lonely. Yeah. So it's been so you get a text from Jo like you good? Yeah. Yeah.

text from Jo like you good? Yeah. Yeah. text from Jo like you good? Yeah. Yeah. And then I mean I have good friends. And then I mean I have good friends. And then I mean I have good friends. Andrew Huberman's been great. Rogan's Andrew Huberman's been great. Rogan's Andrew Huberman's been great. Rogan's been great. Well, you know you been great. Well, you know you been great. Well, you know you Lex, however many years ago was in a Lex, however many years ago was in a Lex, however many years ago was in a different place in society than Lex is different place in society than Lex is different place in society than Lex is now. And so it's like every conversation now. And so it's like every conversation now. And so it's like every conversation you have or every relationship you have you have or every relationship you have you have or every relationship you have is inherently different. Even if you is inherently different. Even if you is inherently different. Even if you aren't any different. friends that you aren't any different. friends that you aren't any different. friends that you had from before maybe or even just new had from before maybe or even just new had from before maybe or even just new people you meet, your interactions with people you meet, your interactions with people you meet, your interactions with them are going to be a lot different them are going to be a lot different them are going to be a lot different than if this wasn't a thing. And so it's than if this wasn't a thing. And so it's than if this wasn't a thing. And so it's like that that can be tricky too at when like that that can be tricky too at when like that that can be tricky too at when you've spent your whole life, you know, you've spent your whole life, you know, you've spent your whole life, you know, from the time you're three years old and from the time you're three years old and from the time you're three years old and you're starting to play with other kids you're starting to play with other kids you're starting to play with other kids and like developmentally learning like and like developmentally learning like and like developmentally learning like how to share and how to interact and how to share and how to interact and how to share and how to interact and you're on the you're playing, you know, you're on the you're playing, you know, you're on the you're playing, you know, you're playing on the playground with you're playing on the playground with you're playing on the playground with kids and learning how to like set rules kids and learning how to like set rules kids and learning how to like set rules and boundaries and how to like basically and boundaries and how to like basically and boundaries and how to like basically fit into society and like so you have fit into society and like so you have fit into society and like so you have this whole learning pattern up until this whole learning pattern up until this whole learning pattern up until whatever point in time when when success whatever point in time when when success whatever point in time when when success happens and then it's like all that happens and then it's like all that happens and then it's like all that shifts pretty dramatically all, you shifts pretty dramatically all, you shifts pretty dramatically all, you know, in a relatively short period of know, in a relatively short period of know, in a relatively short period of time. And there so like how do you how time. And there so like how do you how time. And there so like how do you how do you think like managing your previous do you think like managing your previous do you think like managing your previous like previous friendships or your like like previous friendships or your like like previous friendships or your like you know how has that been tricky for you know how has that been tricky for you know how has that been tricky for you or like how does that it's been you or like how does that it's been you or like how does that it's been tough. I you know I value deep close tough. I you know I value deep close tough. I you know I value deep close long-term friendships and Yeah. But I long-term friendships and Yeah. But I long-term friendships and Yeah. But I mean I have amazing friends but they mean I have amazing friends but they mean I have amazing friends but they certainly do treat me a little certainly do treat me a little certainly do treat me a little different. They they bust my balls different. They they bust my balls different. They they bust my balls noticeably less. Yeah. And you need you noticeably less. Yeah. And you need you noticeably less. Yeah. And you need you need that sometimes. I need I not need that sometimes. I need I not need that sometimes. I need I not sometimes all the time. First of all, sometimes all the time. First of all, sometimes all the time. First of all, it's how dudes show love is making fun

it's how dudes show love is making fun it's how dudes show love is making fun of each other. At least my friends. of each other. At least my friends. of each other. At least my friends. Yeah. Like you know when you watch Man Yeah. Like you know when you watch Man Yeah. Like you know when you watch Man I'm going to get in trouble but when you I'm going to get in trouble but when you I'm going to get in trouble but when you watch like women interact they're often watch like women interact they're often watch like women interact they're often like really positive towards each other. like really positive towards each other. like really positive towards each other. Like oh you look great Like oh you look great Like oh you look great this watch dudes interact like close this watch dudes interact like close this watch dudes interact like close friends. There's just like I mean friends. There's just like I mean friends. There's just like I mean busting each other's balls. I'll stop busting each other's balls. I'll stop busting each other's balls. I'll stop making fun of each other. making fun of each other. making fun of each other. Uh and so yes, that has been a little Uh and so yes, that has been a little Uh and so yes, that has been a little bit harder. I I try I try to break those bit harder. I I try I try to break those bit harder. I I try I try to break those walls like walls like walls like but that's why with the famous friends but that's why with the famous friends but that's why with the famous friends it's a little bit easier because they it's a little bit easier because they it's a little bit easier because they can still like Rogan roasts me non-stop. can still like Rogan roasts me non-stop. can still like Rogan roasts me non-stop. So just it's uh and it just feels good. So just it's uh and it just feels good. So just it's uh and it just feels good. I just sit there and get made fun of and I just sit there and get made fun of and I just sit there and get made fun of and it's great. It's great. And I still do it's great. It's great. And I still do it's great. It's great. And I still do it all the time. I just it's just a it all the time. I just it's just a it all the time. I just it's just a different experience now. But I I'm like different experience now. But I I'm like different experience now. But I I'm like a Goodwill junkie. Like um most of like a Goodwill junkie. Like um most of like a Goodwill junkie. Like um most of like most of even my clothes were from most of even my clothes were from most of even my clothes were from Goodwill, but like I have this I have Goodwill, but like I have this I have Goodwill, but like I have this I have this like addiction with buying this like addiction with buying this like addiction with buying paintings from Goodwill. Like the $8 paintings from Goodwill. Like the $8 paintings from Goodwill. Like the $8 paintings where it looks like somebody paintings where it looks like somebody paintings where it looks like somebody was following along with like a Bob Ross was following along with like a Bob Ross was following along with like a Bob Ross video and it didn't work out quite video and it didn't work out quite video and it didn't work out quite right. Like I like I buy every one of right. Like I like I buy every one of right. Like I like I buy every one of those. I'll go in there and buy like 10 those. I'll go in there and buy like 10 those. I'll go in there and buy like 10 of And so just even you know anytime you of And so just even you know anytime you of And so just even you know anytime you got into public now it's just like you got into public now it's just like you got into public now it's just like you know it's going to be a little different know it's going to be a little different know it's going to be a little different than it was. You know I don't know if than it was. You know I don't know if than it was. You know I don't know if that makes sense or not but Yeah. Yeah.

that makes sense or not but Yeah. Yeah. that makes sense or not but Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, hey, you I'm trying to For sure. I mean, hey, you I'm trying to For sure. I mean, hey, you I'm trying to deal with it, but all of it when you deal with it, but all of it when you deal with it, but all of it when you talk to world leaders, when you step talk to world leaders, when you step talk to world leaders, when you step into politics a little bit, and you into politics a little bit, and you into politics a little bit, and you apparently stepped into politics, even apparently stepped into politics, even apparently stepped into politics, even though you never meant to, you're not a though you never meant to, you're not a though you never meant to, you're not a political political political person. That that world is like, what person. That that world is like, what person. That that world is like, what the fuck? It's very intense, especially the fuck? It's very intense, especially the fuck? It's very intense, especially at an intense moment in history in in an at an intense moment in history in in an at an intense moment in history in in an extremely divided country. So, yeah, extremely divided country. So, yeah, extremely divided country. So, yeah, like saying that I'm not in politics, like saying that I'm not in politics, like saying that I'm not in politics, people like, "Well, of course you're in people like, "Well, of course you're in people like, "Well, of course you're in politics." And I don't know whether I am politics." And I don't know whether I am politics." And I don't know whether I am or not, but just or not, but just or not, but just um I do think a lot of people in um I do think a lot of people in um I do think a lot of people in politics like as far as the people who politics like as far as the people who politics like as far as the people who sit on the internet all day and argue sit on the internet all day and argue sit on the internet all day and argue about stuff on X or on whatever, you about stuff on X or on whatever, you about stuff on X or on whatever, you know, Facebook and all like I do think know, Facebook and all like I do think know, Facebook and all like I do think their heart is in it for the right their heart is in it for the right their heart is in it for the right reasons. They observe that there's a lot reasons. They observe that there's a lot reasons. They observe that there's a lot of things wrong in the world that they'd of things wrong in the world that they'd of things wrong in the world that they'd like to see different. It's like to see different. It's like to see different. It's just how do you get those people out of just how do you get those people out of just how do you get those people out of a how do you get those people out of a how do you get those people out of a how do you get those people out of this 4x4 square and like really like this 4x4 square and like really like this 4x4 square and like really like they're they're entrapped in a in a same they're they're entrapped in a in a same they're they're entrapped in a in a same kind of box that the people at Boeing kind of box that the people at Boeing kind of box that the people at Boeing might be with that struct you know it's might be with that struct you know it's might be with that struct you know it's too there it's the tornado metaphor I too there it's the tornado metaphor I too there it's the tornado metaphor I mean but it applies in politics too like mean but it applies in politics too like mean but it applies in politics too like that there needs to just be a tornado that there needs to just be a tornado that there needs to just be a tornado through politics and we need to figure through politics and we need to figure through politics and we need to figure we need to just like lay all this other we need to just like lay all this other we need to just like lay all this other stuff aside and just figure out what's stuff aside and just figure out what's stuff aside and just figure out what's really pissing everybody off what's really pissing everybody off what's really pissing everybody off what's really affecting our quality of life. A really affecting our quality of life. A really affecting our quality of life. A lot of times we're arguing over the lot of times we're arguing over the lot of times we're arguing over the symptoms of problems instead of symptoms of problems instead of symptoms of problems instead of identifying the problems. If that makes identifying the problems. If that makes identifying the problems. If that makes any sense. I mean that if Jordan any sense. I mean that if Jordan any sense. I mean that if Jordan Peterson were here, he would tell us

Peterson were here, he would tell us Peterson were here, he would tell us about fire and how important that is and about fire and how important that is and about fire and how important that is and burning and like it but it is all the burning and like it but it is all the burning and like it but it is all the same. Water and fire and ice metaphor same. Water and fire and ice metaphor same. Water and fire and ice metaphor and there would definitely be a and there would definitely be a and there would definitely be a connection to the Bible and then we connection to the Bible and then we connection to the Bible and then we would receive a three-hour lecture and would receive a three-hour lecture and would receive a three-hour lecture and it's true. But it is it's all true. Like it's true. But it is it's all true. Like it's true. But it is it's all true. Like it's all true. It is all it's all 100% it's all true. It is all it's all 100% it's all true. It is all it's all 100% accurate. Yeah. That's the crazy thing. accurate. Yeah. That's the crazy thing. accurate. Yeah. That's the crazy thing. But it all ties into that same thing But it all ties into that same thing But it all ties into that same thing like you um yeah in politics now it's like you um yeah in politics now it's like you um yeah in politics now it's almost like there's a rulebook that you almost like there's a rulebook that you almost like there's a rulebook that you have to follow and if you you can't have to follow and if you you can't have to follow and if you you can't agree with this unless you also agree agree with this unless you also agree agree with this unless you also agree with that. You know, it's like and maybe with that. You know, it's like and maybe with that. You know, it's like and maybe it's like the places the way that we it's like the places the way that we it's like the places the way that we receive information about what's going receive information about what's going receive information about what's going on in the political landscape is always on in the political landscape is always on in the political landscape is always so biased and it's like the well it's so biased and it's like the well it's so biased and it's like the well it's it's contingent upon this algorithm this it's contingent upon this algorithm this it's contingent upon this algorithm this like al algorithmic system that we live like al algorithmic system that we live like al algorithmic system that we live under where we're fed it's like we're under where we're fed it's like we're under where we're fed it's like we're almost fed certain subcate and it's and almost fed certain subcate and it's and almost fed certain subcate and it's and it's easy to fall into that because you it's easy to fall into that because you it's easy to fall into that because you don't like hearing things you disagree don't like hearing things you disagree don't like hearing things you disagree with and so it's a lot easier to just with and so it's a lot easier to just with and so it's a lot easier to just turn the TV on or go on Facebook and turn the TV on or go on Facebook and turn the TV on or go on Facebook and look at whatever page posts things that look at whatever page posts things that look at whatever page posts things that you know you're going to consist you know you're going to consist you know you're going to consist consistently agree with every day and consistently agree with every day and consistently agree with every day and that's not going to challenge the way that's not going to challenge the way that's not going to challenge the way you think in any little way, you know, you think in any little way, you know, you think in any little way, you know, or or like expand your thinking at all.

or or like expand your thinking at all. or or like expand your thinking at all. It's it's easy to just it's kind of like It's it's easy to just it's kind of like It's it's easy to just it's kind of like a it's a cult-like type of thing. It's a it's a cult-like type of thing. It's a it's a cult-like type of thing. It's like, you know, here's this is what we like, you know, here's this is what we like, you know, here's this is what we all agree with and if you don't then go all agree with and if you don't then go all agree with and if you don't then go and get, you know, like but it it and get, you know, like but it it and get, you know, like but it it doesn't it we're far too complicated for doesn't it we're far too complicated for doesn't it we're far too complicated for it to really work that way. Well, this it to really work that way. Well, this it to really work that way. Well, this actually relates to one of my favorite actually relates to one of my favorite actually relates to one of my favorite things in your conversation with Jordan things in your conversation with Jordan things in your conversation with Jordan where you're just where where you're where you're just where where you're where you're just where where you're just shooting a shit about like uh just shooting a shit about like uh just shooting a shit about like uh playing live music and he goes to playing live music and he goes to playing live music and he goes to Kerkugard. Yeah. She's like Sauron Kerkugard. Yeah. She's like Sauron Kerkugard. Yeah. She's like Sauron Kerkugard the Kerkugard the Kerkugard the philosopher. I love Jordan so much. I do philosopher. I love Jordan so much. I do philosopher. I love Jordan so much. I do too. He just goes to Carl Young Na. Um too. He just goes to Carl Young Na. Um too. He just goes to Carl Young Na. Um and there this idea from Kugar that the and there this idea from Kugar that the and there this idea from Kugar that the crowd is on truth. So when you there's crowd is on truth. So when you there's crowd is on truth. So when you there's elements to the crowd that loses the elements to the crowd that loses the elements to the crowd that loses the humanity and the honesty of a an humanity and the honesty of a an humanity and the honesty of a an individual that makes up the crowd individual that makes up the crowd individual that makes up the crowd because the default incentive of the because the default incentive of the because the default incentive of the crowd is to crowd is to crowd is to conform to some kind of narrative. It's conform to some kind of narrative. It's conform to some kind of narrative. It's like like like a it's like a distributed system that a it's like a distributed system that a it's like a distributed system that arrives at a narrative and the narrative arrives at a narrative and the narrative arrives at a narrative and the narrative holds control over that crowd as opposed holds control over that crowd as opposed holds control over that crowd as opposed to the individual humans who are to the individual humans who are to the individual humans who are thinking for themselves and being honest thinking for themselves and being honest thinking for themselves and being honest with their own thoughts and realities with their own thoughts and realities with their own thoughts and realities and so on. So that he he was saying that and so on. So that he he was saying that and so on. So that he he was saying that as a reason from a communication as a reason from a communication as a reason from a communication perspective to speak to individuals in perspective to speak to individuals in perspective to speak to individuals in the crowd not to the crowd. M so from the crowd not to the crowd. M so from the crowd not to the crowd. M so from the performer perspective the moment you the performer perspective the moment you the performer perspective the moment you speak to the crowd you're speaking to

speak to the crowd you're speaking to speak to the crowd you're speaking to the lie that is the crowd according to the lie that is the crowd according to the lie that is the crowd according to sen ko it's pretty hardcore kagard is sen ko it's pretty hardcore kagard is sen ko it's pretty hardcore kagard is pretty hardcore Jordan's pretty hardcore pretty hardcore Jordan's pretty hardcore pretty hardcore Jordan's pretty hardcore but that is true I mean but spec but but that is true I mean but spec but but that is true I mean but spec but specifically in my case I mean really it specifically in my case I mean really it specifically in my case I mean really it applies more than it probably does in a applies more than it probably does in a applies more than it probably does in a lot of cases with crowds and music you lot of cases with crowds and music you lot of cases with crowds and music you know talking about Richmond I wasn't know talking about Richmond I wasn't know talking about Richmond I wasn't necessarily even excited that Richmond necessarily even excited that Richmond necessarily even excited that Richmond did as well as it did it was Like in a did as well as it did it was Like in a did as well as it did it was Like in a way it was almost like alarming that it way it was almost like alarming that it way it was almost like alarming that it did so well, you know, and so those did so well, you know, and so those did so well, you know, and so those crowds that show up like maybe they do crowds that show up like maybe they do crowds that show up like maybe they do like my music, but I also think they're like my music, but I also think they're like my music, but I also think they're there for something. There is something there for something. There is something there for something. There is something bigger about it. I mean I I wish I would bigger about it. I mean I I wish I would bigger about it. I mean I I wish I would have done a better job of having people have done a better job of having people have done a better job of having people there at shows to capture some of those there at shows to capture some of those there at shows to capture some of those crowds I had in 24. Man, you mean the crowds I had in 24. Man, you mean the crowds I had in 24. Man, you mean the size, the intensity? The intensity like size, the intensity? The intensity like size, the intensity? The intensity like it was revolutionary almost. Song of it was revolutionary almost. Song of it was revolutionary almost. Song of revolution. Yeah. I think of redemption revolution. Yeah. I think of redemption revolution. Yeah. I think of redemption song from Bob Marley. Like that song, it song from Bob Marley. Like that song, it song from Bob Marley. Like that song, it just connected with people. There's just connected with people. There's just connected with people. There's something there. Well, and so many something there. Well, and so many something there. Well, and so many people identified different elements.

people identified different elements. people identified different elements. Like I said, it goes back to when we Like I said, it goes back to when we Like I said, it goes back to when we were kind of talking when we first got were kind of talking when we first got were kind of talking when we first got here, but it was it was crazy how it was here, but it was it was crazy how it was here, but it was it was crazy how it was almost like at the beginning with along almost like at the beginning with along almost like at the beginning with along with the scrutiny and some of the other with the scrutiny and some of the other with the scrutiny and some of the other things. It was a lot of different people things. It was a lot of different people things. It was a lot of different people like almost fighting over me or fighting like almost fighting over me or fighting like almost fighting over me or fighting over it like cuz it resonated with over it like cuz it resonated with over it like cuz it resonated with different it it resonated with people different it it resonated with people different it it resonated with people who voted differently than each other who voted differently than each other who voted differently than each other which is which is probably a pretty which is which is probably a pretty which is which is probably a pretty terrifying thing if you're if you're in terrifying thing if you're if you're in terrifying thing if you're if you're in the business of keeping people divided the business of keeping people divided the business of keeping people divided and angry at each other. So it, you and angry at each other. So it, you and angry at each other. So it, you know, it was know, it was know, it was a, it was one of the fir one of the only a, it was one of the fir one of the only a, it was one of the fir one of the only times that I can think where there was times that I can think where there was times that I can think where there was that that much of a sense of unity among that that much of a sense of unity among that that much of a sense of unity among people who otherwise wouldn't. I mean people who otherwise wouldn't. I mean people who otherwise wouldn't. I mean like I mean I think about 9/11 when I like I mean I think about 9/11 when I like I mean I think about 9/11 when I was a kid. I was in fourth grade, but was a kid. I was in fourth grade, but was a kid. I was in fourth grade, but God, man, people were just like people God, man, people were just like people God, man, people were just like people just put everything aside there for a just put everything aside there for a just put everything aside there for a little while. And it was kind of it was little while. And it was kind of it was little while. And it was kind of it was kind of like there's bigger problems kind of like there's bigger problems kind of like there's bigger problems that just aren't in our face. And if we that just aren't in our face. And if we that just aren't in our face. And if we man if they're in your face for just for man if they're in your face for just for man if they're in your face for just for a second or two, you realize a second or two, you realize a second or two, you realize like it's it's hard to it's hard in your like it's it's hard to it's hard in your like it's it's hard to it's hard in your mind to create a a graph that's got like mind to create a a graph that's got like mind to create a a graph that's got like all these but you know we argue about a all these but you know we argue about a all these but you know we argue about a lot of these problems, but if you were lot of these problems, but if you were lot of these problems, but if you were to really look at them to really look at them to really look at them like if you really to stand back and like if you really to stand back and like if you really to stand back and look at all the problems we spend time look at all the problems we spend time look at all the problems we spend time focusing about on the internet versus focusing about on the internet versus focusing about on the internet versus all the things that are affecting us all the things that are affecting us all the things that are affecting us like that really and probably at our like that really and probably at our like that really and probably at our core even piss us off. It's it's got to core even piss us off. It's it's got to core even piss us off. It's it's got to be very disproportionate. And like the be very disproportionate. And like the be very disproportionate. And like the reason it got the reaction it did is reason it got the reaction it did is reason it got the reaction it did is because we all like no matter what it is because we all like no matter what it is because we all like no matter what it is that we're upset about or what we think that we're upset about or what we think that we're upset about or what we think needs to be different in the world or needs to be different in the world or needs to be different in the world or our opinions of things or how we're

our opinions of things or how we're our opinions of things or how we're raised or what our parents taught us, raised or what our parents taught us, raised or what our parents taught us, it's like I think we all feel a little it's like I think we all feel a little it's like I think we all feel a little bit out of control in this new society. bit out of control in this new society. bit out of control in this new society. We all feel like we're We all feel like we're We all feel like we're probably we probably all feel like we're probably we probably all feel like we're probably we probably all feel like we're falling into this kind of like corporate falling into this kind of like corporate falling into this kind of like corporate power structure where none of us where power structure where none of us where power structure where none of us where we are we all are just robots. We're all we are we all are just robots. We're all we are we all are just robots. We're all just we're not allowed to be ourselves just we're not allowed to be ourselves just we're not allowed to be ourselves and be human almost, you know. And there and be human almost, you know. And there and be human almost, you know. And there was enough people feeling that. I mean, was enough people feeling that. I mean, was enough people feeling that. I mean, people on the left feeling like the people on the left feeling like the people on the left feeling like the people in power fucking over the working people in power fucking over the working people in power fucking over the working class, people on the right feeling the class, people on the right feeling the class, people on the right feeling the exact same with different words assigned exact same with different words assigned exact same with different words assigned to it. The deep state, you know, fucking to it. The deep state, you know, fucking to it. The deep state, you know, fucking over middle America. Yeah. Whatever the over middle America. Yeah. Whatever the over middle America. Yeah. Whatever the narratives are. And they're just when narratives are. And they're just when narratives are. And they're just when enough of that is enough of that is enough of that is happening again with the corporate happening again with the corporate happening again with the corporate polite speak, there's something about polite speak, there's something about polite speak, there's something about politeness that's really dangerous. I politeness that's really dangerous. I politeness that's really dangerous. I feel like there's a lot of politeness in feel like there's a lot of politeness in feel like there's a lot of politeness in the Soviet Union. the Soviet Union. the Soviet Union. Yeah. Great example. Yeah. Underneath Yeah. Great example. Yeah. Underneath Yeah. Great example. Yeah. Underneath that, it's like Chernobyl, uh, which is that, it's like Chernobyl, uh, which is that, it's like Chernobyl, uh, which is this nuclear power plant that melted this nuclear power plant that melted this nuclear power plant that melted down.

down. down. Um, I feel like the Um, I feel like the Um, I feel like the bureaucracy needs politeness and bureaucracy needs politeness and bureaucracy needs politeness and civility. civility. civility. and paperwork to function. And then and paperwork to function. And then and paperwork to function. And then atrocities can happen underneath that. atrocities can happen underneath that. atrocities can happen underneath that. So everybody, people in power with a So everybody, people in power with a So everybody, people in power with a smile on their face can just do horrific smile on their face can just do horrific smile on their face can just do horrific things. Mhm. And then give propaganda things. Mhm. And then give propaganda things. Mhm. And then give propaganda that look, you know, it's rainbows and that look, you know, it's rainbows and that look, you know, it's rainbows and sunshine and and unicorns. Yeah. So sunshine and and unicorns. Yeah. So sunshine and and unicorns. Yeah. So people that are rude, I mean, I'm people that are rude, I mean, I'm people that are rude, I mean, I'm starting to awaken to this a little bit. starting to awaken to this a little bit. starting to awaken to this a little bit. Like you need a little like Tom way says Like you need a little like Tom way says Like you need a little like Tom way says uh I like my Tom with a little drop of uh I like my Tom with a little drop of uh I like my Tom with a little drop of poison. You need some poison. You need some poison. You need some like some poison, some some swearing, like some poison, some some swearing, like some poison, some some swearing, some meanness, some bullshit, some like some meanness, some bullshit, some like some meanness, some bullshit, some like intensity to shake up a system because intensity to shake up a system because intensity to shake up a system because when it uh sort of converges towards when it uh sort of converges towards when it uh sort of converges towards this polite bureaucracy, the atrocities this polite bureaucracy, the atrocities this polite bureaucracy, the atrocities can happen and hidden away. And what's can happen and hidden away. And what's can happen and hidden away. And what's probably the most terrifying to me is probably the most terrifying to me is probably the most terrifying to me is that that politeness is just theatrical, that that politeness is just theatrical, that that politeness is just theatrical, whereas it it emulates the respect that whereas it it emulates the respect that whereas it it emulates the respect that we would normally give each other in we would normally give each other in we would normally give each other in society if we were healthy and society if we were healthy and society if we were healthy and functional. What was the process of functional. What was the process of functional. What was the process of writing that writing that writing that song? I mean, it really spoke to the song? I mean, it really spoke to the song? I mean, it really spoke to the pain of and anger of millions of people.

pain of and anger of millions of people. pain of and anger of millions of people. So, there's magic there. Was that what So, there's magic there. Was that what So, there's magic there. Was that what how many how many edits? How many like how many how many edits? How many like how many how many edits? How many like lines did you write? Were there any lines did you write? Were there any lines did you write? Were there any lines that you were like tormented by, lines that you were like tormented by, lines that you were like tormented by, haunted by, come back? Should I do it haunted by, come back? Should I do it haunted by, come back? Should I do it this way or this way or that? Do you Do this way or this way or that? Do you Do this way or this way or that? Do you Do you have a I don't know. Do you Can you you have a I don't know. Do you Can you you have a I don't know. Do you Can you pull Tik Tok up on this? So, if you go pull Tik Tok up on this? So, if you go pull Tik Tok up on this? So, if you go to my page, so if you go down chickens, to my page, so if you go down chickens, to my page, so if you go down chickens, go Yeah. Go down pre- Richmond, you can go Yeah. Go down pre- Richmond, you can go Yeah. Go down pre- Richmond, you can see the original version of Richmond see the original version of Richmond see the original version of Richmond where I put it up. This is so cool to where I put it up. This is so cool to where I put it up. This is so cool to see the evolution. There it is. Okay. see the evolution. There it is. Okay. see the evolution. There it is. Okay. So, that's that's if you play that. So, that's that's if you play that. So, that's that's if you play that. That's I have too many unfinished songs. That's I have too many unfinished songs. That's I have too many unfinished songs. Yeah. Play that. Click that and play it. Yeah. Play that. Click that and play it. Yeah. Play that. Click that and play it. Sell my soul. here back home. here back home. And if you read through this, it's so And if you read through this, it's so And if you read through this, it's so funny. Everybody's like, "You're about funny. Everybody's like, "You're about funny. Everybody's like, "You're about to blow up." to blow up." to blow up." [Music] [Music] [Music] That's all I had. So I had I had just That's all I had. So I had I had just That's all I had. So I had I had just that. You should probably finish this that. You should probably finish this that. You should probably finish this one. Might be real one. Might be real one. Might be real popular. That's a post from a few days popular. That's a post from a few days popular. That's a post from a few days later.

later. later. That was in That was in July. Fuck. That was in That was in July. Fuck. That was in That was in July. Fuck. That's so inspiring, man. So, that's That's so inspiring, man. So, that's That's so inspiring, man. So, that's what I had. That's so what I had. That's so what I had. That's so inspiring. That's what like a couple inspiring. That's what like a couple inspiring. That's what like a couple weeks before uh you posted the final. weeks before uh you posted the final. weeks before uh you posted the final. Well, that's all I had ver Yeah, that's Well, that's all I had ver Yeah, that's Well, that's all I had ver Yeah, that's all I had written at that point. Like all I had written at that point. Like all I had written at that point. Like that in my mind, that's what that's the that in my mind, that's what that's the that in my mind, that's what that's the inspiration for the song was that little inspiration for the song was that little inspiration for the song was that little bit. And I wrote that just cuz I was on bit. And I wrote that just cuz I was on bit. And I wrote that just cuz I was on job sites all day and um you know going job sites all day and um you know going job sites all day and um you know going into like all these just terrible places into like all these just terrible places into like all these just terrible places to work like dealing with different to work like dealing with different to work like dealing with different contractors and stuff. You were talking contractors and stuff. You were talking contractors and stuff. You were talking about wanting to go and talk to about wanting to go and talk to about wanting to go and talk to bluecollar people and all. It's like bluecollar people and all. It's like bluecollar people and all. It's like that's what I did for work basically for that's what I did for work basically for that's what I did for work basically for eight years was build long-term eight years was build long-term eight years was build long-term relationships with people in bluecollar. relationships with people in bluecollar. relationships with people in bluecollar. I was in the industrial space. So I I was in the industrial space. So I I was in the industrial space. So I would talk sometimes I'd talk to 20 would talk sometimes I'd talk to 20 would talk sometimes I'd talk to 20 different people a day. You know, when different people a day. You know, when different people a day. You know, when you sit in a job site trailer and talk you sit in a job site trailer and talk you sit in a job site trailer and talk to and talk to a group of dudes like and to and talk to a group of dudes like and to and talk to a group of dudes like and you're not there with some news camera, you're not there with some news camera, you're not there with some news camera, you're just there as like a random dude. you're just there as like a random dude. you're just there as like a random dude. Like, you hear so much about what really Like, you hear so much about what really Like, you hear so much about what really goes on behind the scenes of of the goes on behind the scenes of of the goes on behind the scenes of of the structure of what builds what builds structure of what builds what builds structure of what builds what builds this country and keeps it going. And um this country and keeps it going. And um this country and keeps it going. And um I think that's probably what it was. It I think that's probably what it was. It I think that's probably what it was. It was just a it was how I felt, but also was just a it was how I felt, but also was just a it was how I felt, but also how I guess a lot of other like you how I guess a lot of other like you how I guess a lot of other like you know, it was just I don't know. It just know, it was just I don't know. It just know, it was just I don't know. It just seemed like the truth. So, so you jot it seemed like the truth. So, so you jot it seemed like the truth. So, so you jot it down even to the details like in a down even to the details like in a down even to the details like in a notebook like those words? No, it's notebook like those words? No, it's notebook like those words? No, it's always just on my phone. I would just always just on my phone. I would just always just on my phone. I would just keep recording the I would just keep, keep recording the I would just keep, keep recording the I would just keep, you know, like so if you were to go back you know, like so if you were to go back you know, like so if you were to go back to Tik Tok like and look at any of those to Tik Tok like and look at any of those to Tik Tok like and look at any of those original videos.

Um, so like the songs that ended up Um, so like the songs that ended up charting, let's say like the ones that charting, let's say like the ones that charting, let's say like the ones that were on there that charted with were on there that charted with were on there that charted with Richmond, like this I've Got to get Richmond, like this I've Got to get Richmond, like this I've Got to get Sober. So, literally, that's a good Sober. So, literally, that's a good Sober. So, literally, that's a good song, man. So, literally what I did was song, man. So, literally what I did was song, man. So, literally what I did was this video I took at my property. This this video I took at my property. This this video I took at my property. This is my carport where my camper was. And is my carport where my camper was. And is my carport where my camper was. And uh I took this video. I went to some uh I took this video. I went to some uh I took this video. I went to some sketchy virus written MP3 to wave file sketchy virus written MP3 to wave file sketchy virus written MP3 to wave file or MP4 to wave file transfer thing. I or MP4 to wave file transfer thing. I or MP4 to wave file transfer thing. I would rip the audio off of this video, would rip the audio off of this video, would rip the audio off of this video, put this on TikTok, and then put that on put this on TikTok, and then put that on put this on TikTok, and then put that on Drokid. And that's the that was the Drokid. And that's the that was the Drokid. And that's the that was the song. But basically, like this would song. But basically, like this would song. But basically, like this would this would have been the first time I this would have been the first time I this would have been the first time I played I've Got to Get Sober all the way played I've Got to Get Sober all the way played I've Got to Get Sober all the way through. Like I would just keep writing through. Like I would just keep writing through. Like I would just keep writing it and working on it, writing it and it and working on it, writing it and it and working on it, writing it and record myself. And maybe I would record record myself. And maybe I would record record myself. And maybe I would record myself 30 times over the period of like myself 30 times over the period of like myself 30 times over the period of like two months. You know what I mean? Oh, two months. You know what I mean? Oh, two months. You know what I mean? Oh, but it's when you say writing, you mean but it's when you say writing, you mean but it's when you say writing, you mean in your head, not actually typed out or in your head, not actually typed out or in your head, not actually typed out or written in, right? It was just mostly written in, right? It was just mostly written in, right? It was just mostly just videos over and over. Just videos. just videos over and over. Just videos. just videos over and over. Just videos. I'm just trying to figure out how to I'm just trying to figure out how to I'm just trying to figure out how to make it. Yeah. But that's what all these make it. Yeah. But that's what all these make it. Yeah. But that's what all these all these are like the audio file from all these are like the audio file from all these are like the audio file from all these videos is what's is what ended all these videos is what's is what ended all these videos is what's is what ended up on Spotify and all that. You know up on Spotify and all that. You know up on Spotify and all that. You know what I mean? This is It's cool to see what I mean? This is It's cool to see what I mean? This is It's cool to see these videos before you blew up. So, these videos before you blew up. So, these videos before you blew up. So, this is a good song. You're playing up this is a good song. You're playing up this is a good song. You're playing up guys. So, what what is this at the end?

guys. So, what what is this at the end? guys. So, what what is this at the end? Yeah. Yeah. These were all Yeah. Yeah. These were all Yeah. Yeah. These were all Don't sell your soul, brother. This is Don't sell your soul, brother. This is Don't sell your soul, brother. This is the best music I've heard in a long the best music I've heard in a long the best music I've heard in a long time. time. time. That's a comment before you blew up. That's a comment before you blew up. That's a comment before you blew up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I had about 10,000 Yeah. I think I had about 10,000 Yeah. I think I had about 10,000 followers or something. What a fucking song. That's a good one. What a fucking song. That's a good one. And you got to think like this was like And you got to think like this was like And you got to think like this was like that was my that was when I quit drink. You know that was when I quit drink. You know what I mean? Like so what I mean? Like so what I mean? Like so but the troules and but the troules and but the troules and the world that were in knock me back off the world that were in knock me back off the world that were in knock me back off my feet. So that's coming from from from my feet. So that's coming from from from my feet. So that's coming from from from your heart right there. your heart right there. your heart right there. Just imagine the thousands of people you helped with the thousands of people you helped with that. Yeah. But it ain't going to happen Yeah. But it ain't going to happen tonight. So pour them down tonight. So pour them down tonight. So pour them down strong until I strong until I strong until I [Music] [Music] [Music] drown. And if I wake up drown. And if I wake up drown. And if I wake up tomorrow, when that sun comes back tomorrow, when that sun comes back tomorrow, when that sun comes back around, I'll be wishing I was sober.

It's so crazy how those cicas and stuff It's so crazy how those cicas and stuff come in. come in. come in. Like I just felt like it was a god. I Like I just felt like it was a god. I Like I just felt like it was a god. I don't know how to like that's just off don't know how to like that's just off don't know how to like that's just off my phone. All that stuff's just there, my phone. All that stuff's just there, my phone. All that stuff's just there, you know? you know? you know? and the bowl. They've been saving my and the bowl. They've been saving my and the bowl. They've been saving my soul from the pain that the world's put soul from the pain that the world's put soul from the pain that the world's put on on on me. And Lord, I know that upstairs me. And Lord, I know that upstairs me. And Lord, I know that upstairs there's an old man who cares. And one there's an old man who cares. And one there's an old man who cares. And one day he'll set me day he'll set me day he'll set me free. I'll go on the hill. That's a genius of song. on the hill. That's a genius of song. That's genius, brother. That's genius. That's genius, brother. That's genius. That's genius, brother. That's genius. It's just crazy to think about. Yeah. And what's this one right before? Yeah. And what's this one right before? What is this? What is this? What is this? Oh, yeah. So, that's like the probably Oh, yeah. So, that's like the probably Oh, yeah. So, that's like the probably the the the And this is a nice recording. Got it. And this is a nice recording. Got it. And this is a nice recording. Got it. Yeah. So, this video got uploaded and Yeah. So, this video got uploaded and Yeah. So, this video got uploaded and then Draven from RadioWV would have then Draven from RadioWV would have then Draven from RadioWV would have gotten a hold of me in between this and gotten a hold of me in between this and gotten a hold of me in between this and that. He watched this and was like, that. He watched this and was like, that. He watched this and was like, "Dude, you got" He said, "We gotta "Dude, you got" He said, "We gotta "Dude, you got" He said, "We gotta record that one." And that like, so I record that one." And that like, so I record that one." And that like, so I didn't have it all, but I just had didn't have it all, but I just had didn't have it all, but I just had whatever was in that video is all I had whatever was in that video is all I had whatever was in that video is all I had written. It was I I think it was just written. It was I I think it was just written. It was I I think it was just the chorus and the first verse. Draven the chorus and the first verse. Draven the chorus and the first verse. Draven saw that video. I said, "We got to do saw that video. I said, "We got to do saw that video. I said, "We got to do this one." Reach out to me to record and this one." Reach out to me to record and this one." Reach out to me to record and he's like, "Yeah." He's like, "No, we he's like, "Yeah." He's like, "No, we he's like, "Yeah." He's like, "No, we got to do that one." And I was like, got to do that one." And I was like, got to do that one." And I was like, "Dude, that's all I got." Tell me about "Dude, that's all I got." Tell me about "Dude, that's all I got." Tell me about that guy, Draven. He probably is like, that guy, Draven. He probably is like, that guy, Draven. He probably is like, you know, he's probably like my best you know, he's probably like my best you know, he's probably like my best friend now. We we hit it off with this

friend now. We we hit it off with this friend now. We we hit it off with this and we're like b we're like brothers now and we're like b we're like brothers now and we're like b we're like brothers now I guess but you talk about like what I guess but you talk about like what I guess but you talk about like what he's doing for country for music in he's doing for country for music in he's doing for country for music in general for country music for general for country music for general for country music for discovering talent for like he's clearly discovering talent for like he's clearly discovering talent for like he's clearly sees something in people. Yeah. He's sees something in people. Yeah. He's sees something in people. Yeah. He's just this he's a little bit younger than just this he's a little bit younger than just this he's a little bit younger than I am and he's he wrote music and played I am and he's he wrote music and played I am and he's he wrote music and played and he's got some of his if you look up and he's got some of his if you look up and he's got some of his if you look up Draven Refe. is going to kill me for Draven Refe. is going to kill me for Draven Refe. is going to kill me for even saying this, but he's got some even saying this, but he's got some even saying this, but he's got some pretty dude, he can if he was like a pop pretty dude, he can if he was like a pop pretty dude, he can if he was like a pop singer, he would be like a he can write singer, he would be like a he can write singer, he would be like a he can write the most catchy stuff ever. Um, let's the most catchy stuff ever. Um, let's the most catchy stuff ever. Um, let's go. Yeah. So, click on like I don't know go. Yeah. So, click on like I don't know go. Yeah. So, click on like I don't know like you go. All right. like you go. All right. like you go. All right. That's him. Yeah. [Music] [Music] Where is this from? 5 years ago. I was feeling on my way. I was 10 ago. I was feeling on my way. I was 10 years old, walking underneath the years old, walking underneath the years old, walking underneath the blanket of West Virginia snow. Then I blanket of West Virginia snow. Then I blanket of West Virginia snow. Then I walked right by. No trespass sign. Did a walked right by. No trespass sign. Did a walked right by. No trespass sign. Did a grass look green across property line.

grass look green across property line. grass look green across property line. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. You know, he could probably do if he You know, he could probably do if he You know, he could probably do if he does like he could probably be real does like he could probably be real does like he could probably be real famous. Well, he's got a certain look. famous. Well, he's got a certain look. famous. Well, he's got a certain look. that dude will sit there and he'll just that dude will sit there and he'll just that dude will sit there and he'll just like we'll just be sitting there at like like we'll just be sitting there at like like we'll just be sitting there at like two in the morning and he'll just all of two in the morning and he'll just all of two in the morning and he'll just all of a sudden do this little thing and he's a sudden do this little thing and he's a sudden do this little thing and he's got like the most amazing first part of got like the most amazing first part of got like the most amazing first part of this like song or we just started to this like song or we just started to this like song or we just started to co-write together like in the last few co-write together like in the last few co-write together like in the last few months. So I'm really excited for that. months. So I'm really excited for that. months. So I'm really excited for that. But if you go to his This is really But if you go to his This is really But if you go to his This is really funny too. I'm sorry Draven I love you funny too. I'm sorry Draven I love you funny too. I'm sorry Draven I love you man. So go to videos and go to oldest man. So go to videos and go to oldest man. So go to videos and go to oldest first. This is what's so awesome about first. This is what's so awesome about first. This is what's so awesome about Draven. He was originally working for Draven. He was originally working for Draven. He was originally working for this lady who was trying to develop this lady who was trying to develop this lady who was trying to develop different types of hair care products, different types of hair care products, different types of hair care products, but he thought the market was too but he thought the market was too but he thought the market was too saturated. So, he was going to get into saturated. So, he was going to get into saturated. So, he was going to get into beard oil. So, he created beard oil. So, he created beard oil. So, he created RadioWV as like a fake plug page for his RadioWV as like a fake plug page for his RadioWV as like a fake plug page for his burly boy beard brand he was working burly boy beard brand he was working burly boy beard brand he was working with. So, like click like if you look at with. So, like click like if you look at with. So, like click like if you look at um Yeah. Like that very first video. um Yeah. Like that very first video. um Yeah. Like that very first video. Yeah. It's like it's got all his beard Yeah. It's like it's got all his beard Yeah. It's like it's got all his beard products and if you look there's a products and if you look there's a products and if you look there's a there's multiple ones like that. Yeah.

there's multiple ones like that. Yeah. there's multiple ones like that. Yeah. So, he started it just to do this beard So, he started it just to do this beard So, he started it just to do this beard thing with and then like I don't know, thing with and then like I don't know, thing with and then like I don't know, he just kind of felt called to like keep he just kind of felt called to like keep he just kind of felt called to like keep going with it and it and it just sort of going with it and it and it just sort of going with it and it and it just sort of naturally progressed. Yeah, that too is naturally progressed. Yeah, that too is naturally progressed. Yeah, that too is inspiring. Like you start out one way inspiring. Like you start out one way inspiring. Like you start out one way and then you discover something real and then you discover something real and then you discover something real special. I mean, he's got a he's got an special. I mean, he's got a he's got an special. I mean, he's got a he's got an eye for how to bring out I don't know eye for how to bring out I don't know eye for how to bring out I don't know what it is like the both the audio side what it is like the both the audio side what it is like the both the audio side and the video side. how to bring out the and the video side. how to bring out the and the video side. how to bring out the bus in. He says he just wants it to bus in. He says he just wants it to bus in. He says he just wants it to sound like the way he likes hearing it, sound like the way he likes hearing it, sound like the way he likes hearing it, which kind of makes sense, you know, which kind of makes sense, you know, which kind of makes sense, you know, like it's kind of in the same way like it's kind of in the same way like it's kind of in the same way talking about when we were talking about talking about when we were talking about talking about when we were talking about setting the cameras up and a setting the cameras up and a setting the cameras up and a professional would tell you you needed professional would tell you you needed professional would tell you you needed three lights and you're like, well, I three lights and you're like, well, I three lights and you're like, well, I think it would work with the that he's think it would work with the that he's think it would work with the that he's just kind of like, well, it'll just work just kind of like, well, it'll just work just kind of like, well, it'll just work like this and and do it in a way where like this and and do it in a way where like this and and do it in a way where he likes it. Yeah. Just do it for he likes it. Yeah. Just do it for he likes it. Yeah. Just do it for yourself. He does it cuz he loves it and yourself. He does it cuz he loves it and yourself. He does it cuz he loves it and that and you can see it shows, you know. that and you can see it shows, you know. that and you can see it shows, you know. Yeah. You can see it in there. Um, and Yeah. You can see it in there. Um, and Yeah. You can see it in there. Um, and there's some good talent like you were there's some good talent like you were there's some good talent like you were showing me this new lady, Gabriel. Yeah, showing me this new lady, Gabriel. Yeah, showing me this new lady, Gabriel. Yeah, she's got it. But not a lot of people she's got it. But not a lot of people she's got it. But not a lot of people would uh record her doing that song. But would uh record her doing that song. But would uh record her doing that song. But he's like I don't know. It just was he's like I don't know. It just was he's like I don't know. It just was different. I just thought people ought different. I just thought people ought different. I just thought people ought to hear it. But he's man, it was a to hear it. But he's man, it was a to hear it. But he's man, it was a blessing that he came along when he did.

blessing that he came along when he did. blessing that he came along when he did. It was like um it really changed both of It was like um it really changed both of It was like um it really changed both of our lives. We got to talk about that. So our lives. We got to talk about that. So our lives. We got to talk about that. So you posted the the song Rich Men North you posted the the song Rich Men North you posted the the song Rich Men North of Richmond on August 8th, 2023. I of Richmond on August 8th, 2023. I of Richmond on August 8th, 2023. I remember I was at work that day when it remember I was at work that day when it remember I was at work that day when it went up. Yeah. So it blew the fuck up went up. Yeah. So it blew the fuck up went up. Yeah. So it blew the fuck up straight to number one on the charts. straight to number one on the charts. straight to number one on the charts. tens of millions of views and tens of millions of views and tens of millions of views and listens. Uh, and a few days later on listens. Uh, and a few days later on listens. Uh, and a few days later on August 17th, he made a post that I August 17th, he made a post that I August 17th, he made a post that I thought was pretty gangster. I was thought was pretty gangster. I was thought was pretty gangster. I was beautiful and gangster. Uh, so one one beautiful and gangster. Uh, so one one beautiful and gangster. Uh, so one one of the things he said is, "It's been of the things he said is, "It's been of the things he said is, "It's been difficult as I browse through the 50,000 difficult as I browse through the 50,000 difficult as I browse through the 50,000 plus messages and emails I've received plus messages and emails I've received plus messages and emails I've received in the last week. The stories that have in the last week. The stories that have in the last week. The stories that have been shared paint a brutally honest been shared paint a brutally honest been shared paint a brutally honest picture. suicide, addiction, picture. suicide, addiction, picture. suicide, addiction, unemployment, anxiety, depression, unemployment, anxiety, depression, unemployment, anxiety, depression, hopelessness, and the list goes on. And hopelessness, and the list goes on. And hopelessness, and the list goes on. And then you went on to write, "People in then you went on to write, "People in then you went on to write, "People in the music industry give me blank stairs the music industry give me blank stairs the music industry give me blank stairs when I brush off 8 million dollar when I brush off 8 million dollar when I brush off 8 million dollar offers. I don't want six tour buses, 15 offers. I don't want six tour buses, 15 offers. I don't want six tour buses, 15 tractor trailers, and a jet. I don't tractor trailers, and a jet. I don't tractor trailers, and a jet. I don't want to play stadium shows. I don't want want to play stadium shows. I don't want want to play stadium shows. I don't want to be in the spotlight. I wrote the to be in the spotlight. I wrote the to be in the spotlight. I wrote the music I wrote because I was suffering music I wrote because I was suffering music I wrote because I was suffering with mental health and depression.

with mental health and depression. with mental health and depression. These songs have connected with millions These songs have connected with millions These songs have connected with millions of people on such a deep level because of people on such a deep level because of people on such a deep level because they've been sung by someone feeling the they've been sung by someone feeling the they've been sung by someone feeling the words in the very moment they were being words in the very moment they were being words in the very moment they were being sung. No editing, no agent, no bullshit, sung. No editing, no agent, no bullshit, sung. No editing, no agent, no bullshit, just some idiot and his guitar. The just some idiot and his guitar. The just some idiot and his guitar. The style of music that we should have never style of music that we should have never style of music that we should have never gotten away from in the first place. So, gotten away from in the first place. So, gotten away from in the first place. So, huge props for that. for walking away huge props for that. for walking away huge props for that. for walking away from lucrative multi-million dollar from lucrative multi-million dollar from lucrative multi-million dollar record deals and I'm sure the money that record deals and I'm sure the money that record deals and I'm sure the money that was just coming your way. Huge props. was just coming your way. Huge props. was just coming your way. Huge props. You know, moments happen where you know You know, moments happen where you know You know, moments happen where you know the world tests you and the world tests you and the world tests you and integrity is what you do in those integrity is what you do in those integrity is what you do in those moments. So, huge props for that. What moments. So, huge props for that. What moments. So, huge props for that. What was your philosophy? What was your was your philosophy? What was your was your philosophy? What was your thinking behind that? It was all those thinking behind that? It was all those thinking behind that? It was all those messages I got. I mean, you can see it messages I got. I mean, you can see it messages I got. I mean, you can see it in the comment sections of a lot of the in the comment sections of a lot of the in the comment sections of a lot of the videos after everything h but people videos after everything h but people videos after everything h but people just like felt this spark like like wow just like felt this spark like like wow just like felt this spark like like wow like maybe we actually have a chance to like maybe we actually have a chance to like maybe we actually have a chance to like maybe we actually do have some kind like maybe we actually do have some kind like maybe we actually do have some kind of power you know like those people put of power you know like those people put of power you know like those people put that song there nobody else and like that song there nobody else and like that song there nobody else and like gave me the opportunity to make even gave me the opportunity to make even gave me the opportunity to make even without sign anything I was still able without sign anything I was still able without sign anything I was still able to make millions of dollars and have to make millions of dollars and have to make millions of dollars and have financial freedom financial freedom financial freedom and like I and like I and like I just I just felt just I just felt just I just felt like I felt like if I was going to do like I felt like if I was going to do like I felt like if I was going to do anything like that that I'd be I'd be anything like that that I'd be I'd be anything like that that I'd be I'd be betraying like I would be taking those betraying like I would be taking those betraying like I would be taking those people and and almost betraying them people and and almost betraying them people and and almost betraying them somehow, you know, like uh like they I

somehow, you know, like uh like they I somehow, you know, like uh like they I hate the big machine just like everybody hate the big machine just like everybody hate the big machine just like everybody else. And I the last thing I'd want to else. And I the last thing I'd want to else. And I the last thing I'd want to do is be is do is be is do is be is ever supported or be a part of it. Like ever supported or be a part of it. Like ever supported or be a part of it. Like I want to watch it crash and burn, you I want to watch it crash and burn, you I want to watch it crash and burn, you know? Like see this is the really know? Like see this is the really know? Like see this is the really important thing is whether it was important thing is whether it was important thing is whether it was betrayal or not, we'll never know. But betrayal or not, we'll never know. But betrayal or not, we'll never know. But you felt like that it was. And to have you felt like that it was. And to have you felt like that it was. And to have the integrity to walk away from the bag the integrity to walk away from the bag the integrity to walk away from the bag of money when you felt that way, that's of money when you felt that way, that's of money when you felt that way, that's fucking epic. It was also, you got to fucking epic. It was also, you got to fucking epic. It was also, you got to think a couple months before this, like, think a couple months before this, like, think a couple months before this, like, of course, I had, you know, I had a wife of course, I had, you know, I had a wife of course, I had, you know, I had a wife and kids that I loved and like I had a and kids that I loved and like I had a and kids that I loved and like I had a lot of really important things to live lot of really important things to live lot of really important things to live for, but I didn't have a whole lot to for, but I didn't have a whole lot to for, but I didn't have a whole lot to lose. Like, like none of this was even lose. Like, like none of this was even lose. Like, like none of this was even really real. Like it I didn't care about really real. Like it I didn't care about really real. Like it I didn't care about that. like I didn't care to lose this that. like I didn't care to lose this that. like I didn't care to lose this just as quick as I got it. Like this just as quick as I got it. Like this just as quick as I got it. Like this didn't this was this didn't mean didn't this was this didn't mean didn't this was this didn't mean anything to me. It just meant something anything to me. It just meant something anything to me. It just meant something to me that like that I could do to me that like that I could do to me that like that I could do something for like you know something for like you know something for like you know you it's like even if I'm not smart you it's like even if I'm not smart you it's like even if I'm not smart enough to figure out how to fix some of enough to figure out how to fix some of enough to figure out how to fix some of my own problems in my life, the fact my own problems in my life, the fact my own problems in my life, the fact that I felt like I could help fix that I felt like I could help fix that I felt like I could help fix somebody else's like that meant a hell somebody else's like that meant a hell somebody else's like that meant a hell of a lot more to me than any that's what of a lot more to me than any that's what of a lot more to me than any that's what I didn't want to lose. I didn't want to I didn't want to lose. I didn't want to I didn't want to lose. I didn't want to lose those people's trust or like feel lose those people's trust or like feel lose those people's trust or like feel you know what I mean like Yeah. Yeah.

you know what I mean like Yeah. Yeah. you know what I mean like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I've just tried to make Yeah. And so I've just tried to make Yeah. And so I've just tried to make every decision around like as best as I every decision around like as best as I every decision around like as best as I can like what I think the right thing is can like what I think the right thing is can like what I think the right thing is to do and who knows what the hell the to do and who knows what the hell the to do and who knows what the hell the right thing is to do. But I just try to right thing is to do. But I just try to right thing is to do. But I just try to follow, you know, we all have that follow, you know, we all have that follow, you know, we all have that little voice in us like that. We all little voice in us like that. We all little voice in us like that. We all have some whe and and I think sometimes have some whe and and I think sometimes have some whe and and I think sometimes we mask it's hard for us to listen to we mask it's hard for us to listen to we mask it's hard for us to listen to that little voice whether whether it's that little voice whether whether it's that little voice whether whether it's like you know whether it's our gluttony like you know whether it's our gluttony like you know whether it's our gluttony or our lust or our or or our lust or our or or our lust or our or our you know we we numb ourselves with our you know we we numb ourselves with our you know we we numb ourselves with medications or with alcohol or we we medications or with alcohol or we we medications or with alcohol or we we scroll on YouTube for 4 hours a night scroll on YouTube for 4 hours a night scroll on YouTube for 4 hours a night and instead of because we don't want to and instead of because we don't want to and instead of because we don't want to listen to our conscience but there is listen to our conscience but there is listen to our conscience but there is this like very intelligent discerning this like very intelligent discerning this like very intelligent discerning thing inside of us that's able to tell thing inside of us that's able to tell thing inside of us that's able to tell us what's right and wrong. And it's a us what's right and wrong. And it's a us what's right and wrong. And it's a it's a spiritual thing, I guess. And I it's a spiritual thing, I guess. And I it's a spiritual thing, I guess. And I just try to I just try to listen to that just try to I just try to listen to that just try to I just try to listen to that when I can. I don't know. I just still when I can. I don't know. I just still when I can. I don't know. I just still feel like I haven't done enough. I think feel like I haven't done enough. I think feel like I haven't done enough. I think you I think you did a lot. I think you you I think you did a lot. I think you you I think you did a lot. I think you did a lot. I think you're an did a lot. I think you're an did a lot. I think you're an inspiration. You have helped a huge inspiration. You have helped a huge inspiration. You have helped a huge number of people. And you're also an number of people. And you're also an number of people. And you're also an inspiration to the other side of it, inspiration to the other side of it, inspiration to the other side of it, which is the artists and just to humans which is the artists and just to humans which is the artists and just to humans to have integrity. I don't think people to have integrity. I don't think people to have integrity. I don't think people realize how much of a test of integrity realize how much of a test of integrity realize how much of a test of integrity fame, money, you know, power fame, money, you know, power fame, money, you know, power also is, you know, uh Rogan and I talk also is, you know, uh Rogan and I talk also is, you know, uh Rogan and I talk about this quite a bit. We get to see I about this quite a bit. We get to see I about this quite a bit. We get to see I mean Joe especially, but I haven't I've mean Joe especially, but I haven't I've mean Joe especially, but I haven't I've had a bit of the same. You get had a bit of the same. You get had a bit of the same. You get to see people become

to see people become to see people become famous and you get to see how they deal famous and you get to see how they deal famous and you get to see how they deal with that and it's not easy. A lot of with that and it's not easy. A lot of with that and it's not easy. A lot of people will sell themselves a bit, sell people will sell themselves a bit, sell people will sell themselves a bit, sell the soul a bit, give away a bit of their the soul a bit, give away a bit of their the soul a bit, give away a bit of their integrity of the spirit that made them integrity of the spirit that made them integrity of the spirit that made them who they are. You get caught up in the who they are. You get caught up in the who they are. You get caught up in the wave of it, you know, and so to to keep wave of it, you know, and so to to keep wave of it, you know, and so to to keep on holding on to that, that's a powerful on holding on to that, that's a powerful on holding on to that, that's a powerful thing. That's a really Yeah, that's all thing. That's a really Yeah, that's all thing. That's a really Yeah, that's all I got though, you know? When you lose I got though, you know? When you lose I got though, you know? When you lose that, what the hell are you like? And that, what the hell are you like? And that, what the hell are you like? And you see it like you see these celebrity you see it like you see these celebrity you see it like you see these celebrity people that just like fall off the they people that just like fall off the they people that just like fall off the they fall off this, you know, they go off the fall off this, you know, they go off the fall off this, you know, they go off the deep end. And it's like it's you got to deep end. And it's like it's you got to deep end. And it's like it's you got to have you have to have something in your have you have to have something in your have you have to have something in your life to and to keep you centered and to life to and to keep you centered and to life to and to keep you centered and to keep you keep you keep you um you know your whole perception of um you know your whole perception of um you know your whole perception of reality and like you're just existence reality and like you're just existence reality and like you're just existence in reality as all contingent upon this in reality as all contingent upon this in reality as all contingent upon this sort of like this center that you exist sort of like this center that you exist sort of like this center that you exist in and you have to if you don't have in and you have to if you don't have in and you have to if you don't have that then you're just flying through spa that then you're just flying through spa that then you're just flying through spa through sp I mean we're all just riding through sp I mean we're all just riding through sp I mean we're all just riding on this rock that's going who knows how on this rock that's going who knows how on this rock that's going who knows how fast. You said something uh I think to fast. You said something uh I think to fast. You said something uh I think to Jaco that I really liked. Everything Jaco that I really liked. Everything Jaco that I really liked. Everything that has purpose behind it comes with that has purpose behind it comes with that has purpose behind it comes with risk. So there in that moment, I mean, risk. So there in that moment, I mean, risk. So there in that moment, I mean, you're taking a hell of a risk. I was you're taking a hell of a risk. I was you're taking a hell of a risk. I was terrified. I talked about this a little terrified. I talked about this a little terrified. I talked about this a little bit with him, too, but I was terrified bit with him, too, but I was terrified bit with him, too, but I was terrified to even put the song out. Like I knew I to even put the song out. Like I knew I to even put the song out. Like I knew I was going to be the subject of scrutiny was going to be the subject of scrutiny was going to be the subject of scrutiny and judgment, and I knew people were and judgment, and I knew people were and judgment, and I knew people were going to like, you know, I kind of knew going to like, you know, I kind of knew going to like, you know, I kind of knew all that was going to happen. And I was all that was going to happen. And I was all that was going to happen. And I was like going back to that talking about like going back to that talking about like going back to that talking about crowds like to stand in front of

crowds like to stand in front of crowds like to stand in front of thousands of people and everybody be in thousands of people and everybody be in thousands of people and everybody be in some sense of unity. Like a lot of times some sense of unity. Like a lot of times some sense of unity. Like a lot of times when I end the shows, I'll when I end the shows, I'll when I end the shows, I'll always I'll always end with this always I'll always end with this always I'll always end with this statement that just says, you know, no statement that just says, you know, no statement that just says, you know, no matter what, matter what, matter what, like no matter how you feel when you go like no matter how you feel when you go like no matter how you feel when you go online, you know, everyone feels so online, you know, everyone feels so online, you know, everyone feels so small and insignificant and and small and insignificant and and small and insignificant and and powerless. But I just say no matter how powerless. But I just say no matter how powerless. But I just say no matter how they make you feel online or when you they make you feel online or when you they make you feel online or when you turn on the TV or when you look at turn on the TV or when you look at turn on the TV or when you look at polling numbers or whatever, like when polling numbers or whatever, like when polling numbers or whatever, like when you just look at all this trash that we you just look at all this trash that we you just look at all this trash that we digest every day, like you're there's digest every day, like you're there's digest every day, like you're there's always there will always be more of us always there will always be more of us always there will always be more of us than them and and all that and but like than them and and all that and but like than them and and all that and but like to see that like just to see the light to see that like just to see the light to see that like just to see the light in people's eyes when you say that. But in people's eyes when you say that. But in people's eyes when you say that. But the truth is like and it's like who is the truth is like and it's like who is the truth is like and it's like who is us and who is them? And it's like us us and who is them? And it's like us us and who is them? And it's like us just represents humanity and like and just represents humanity and like and just represents humanity and like and and all the things we talked about so and all the things we talked about so and all the things we talked about so far like far like far like just you know the fire and the chaos and just you know the fire and the chaos and just you know the fire and the chaos and but also the like the love and just just but also the like the love and just just but also the like the love and just just life life is just such a crazy life life is just such a crazy life life is just such a crazy complicated beautiful disastrous thing complicated beautiful disastrous thing complicated beautiful disastrous thing and then them is like it is it's the and then them is like it is it's the and then them is like it is it's the power structure it's the it's that same power structure it's the it's that same power structure it's the it's that same terrible side of us that created things terrible side of us that created things terrible side of us that created things like the Soviet Union and and and is like the Soviet Union and and and is like the Soviet Union and and and is ultimately what's created this mon this ultimately what's created this mon this ultimately what's created this mon this like monster that we all live under like monster that we all live under like monster that we all live under today which now is not just doesn't just today which now is not just doesn't just today which now is not just doesn't just exist within the confines of the Soviet exist within the confines of the Soviet exist within the confines of the Soviet Union but seems to almost be a global Union but seems to almost be a global Union but seems to almost be a global epidemic and then that song became the epidemic and then that song became the epidemic and then that song became the rebel call against that against the

rebel call against that against the rebel call against that against the power structures that creates that. power structures that creates that. power structures that creates that. Yeah. It's like how much fire am I Yeah. It's like how much fire am I Yeah. It's like how much fire am I willing to play with cuz I know at some willing to play with cuz I know at some willing to play with cuz I know at some point I am going to get burned from it. point I am going to get burned from it. point I am going to get burned from it. I just pray a lot that God I don't have I just pray a lot that God I don't have I just pray a lot that God I don't have a lot of selfworth in myself anyway. So a lot of selfworth in myself anyway. So a lot of selfworth in myself anyway. So I don't really care what they say or do I don't really care what they say or do I don't really care what they say or do to me or I don't care like I don't even to me or I don't care like I don't even to me or I don't care like I don't even care if I die. Whatever. Just don't let care if I die. Whatever. Just don't let care if I die. Whatever. Just don't let just just protect the people I love is just just protect the people I love is just just protect the people I love is all. That's all I ask of God. I have all. That's all I ask of God. I have all. That's all I ask of God. I have this dream of just creating this this dream of just creating this this dream of just creating this parallel system that sits beside all parallel system that sits beside all parallel system that sits beside all these stupid systems that we live under these stupid systems that we live under these stupid systems that we live under that are all sort of engulfed in this that are all sort of engulfed in this that are all sort of engulfed in this this thing that we talked about at the this thing that we talked about at the this thing that we talked about at the beginning. beginning. beginning. this this type of structure, you know, this this type of structure, you know, this this type of structure, you know, we're none of us where we're all just we're none of us where we're all just we're none of us where we're all just robots. And it's like if we hate, you robots. And it's like if we hate, you robots. And it's like if we hate, you know, if we hate the way music is and know, if we hate the way music is and know, if we hate the way music is and all these artists are complaining about all these artists are complaining about all these artists are complaining about the way the venues are monopolized and the way the venues are monopolized and the way the venues are monopolized and the ticket sales are monopolized and the ticket sales are monopolized and the ticket sales are monopolized and let's just go find other places to play let's just go find other places to play let's just go find other places to play music cuz there's so many people hungry music cuz there's so many people hungry music cuz there's so many people hungry for music in places that don't ever get for music in places that don't ever get for music in places that don't ever get it. And if you look at it, there's so it. And if you look at it, there's so it. And if you look at it, there's so many passionate people that are fighting many passionate people that are fighting many passionate people that are fighting all these different causes like like all these different causes like like all these different causes like like just in food. It's the word they use for just in food. It's the word they use for just in food. It's the word they use for b for more or less starvation. It's a b for more or less starvation. It's a b for more or less starvation. It's a more polite it's called food insecurity.

more polite it's called food insecurity. more polite it's called food insecurity. But if you look up just in Virginia, But if you look up just in Virginia, But if you look up just in Virginia, just where I live in Virginia in the just where I live in Virginia in the just where I live in Virginia in the rural areas, how much food insecurity rural areas, how much food insecurity rural areas, how much food insecurity there is and how many empty vacant farms there is and how many empty vacant farms there is and how many empty vacant farms there are. It's like this is an obvious there are. It's like this is an obvious there are. It's like this is an obvious problem that we should be on Twitter problem that we should be on Twitter problem that we should be on Twitter talking about non-stop. Like this is talking about non-stop. Like this is talking about non-stop. Like this is like everyone has to eat, you know? It like everyone has to eat, you know? It like everyone has to eat, you know? It don't matter what you vote for or what don't matter what you vote for or what don't matter what you vote for or what like what you look like or any of that like what you look like or any of that like what you look like or any of that crap. if you can, you know, crap. if you can, you know, crap. if you can, you know, like so like let's just like why why are like so like let's just like why why are like so like let's just like why why are we living in a country where we have why we living in a country where we have why we living in a country where we have why are we living in a country where half of are we living in a country where half of are we living in a country where half of us are obese and eating shit food and us are obese and eating shit food and us are obese and eating shit food and don't know any better and then the other don't know any better and then the other don't know any better and then the other half of us don't have like how just it's half of us don't have like how just it's half of us don't have like how just it's just it's lack of leadership that's just it's lack of leadership that's just it's lack of leadership that's caused dysfunction and so if we're tired caused dysfunction and so if we're tired caused dysfunction and so if we're tired of that then then let's just fix it. of that then then let's just fix it. of that then then let's just fix it. Like we don't need anybody's permission. Like we don't need anybody's permission. Like we don't need anybody's permission. Like that's the whole beauty. Like Like that's the whole beauty. Like Like that's the whole beauty. Like that's the whole beauty of what America that's the whole beauty of what America that's the whole beauty of what America is is like we don't we don't need some is is like we don't we don't need some is is like we don't we don't need some greasyhaired corporate schmuck to give greasyhaired corporate schmuck to give greasyhaired corporate schmuck to give us permission to go fix all these things us permission to go fix all these things us permission to go fix all these things that are wrong. Let's just go do it. And that are wrong. Let's just go do it. And that are wrong. Let's just go do it. And if they don't like it, fuck them. You if they don't like it, fuck them. You if they don't like it, fuck them. You know, in all domains of life from from know, in all domains of life from from know, in all domains of life from from food to the music industry honestly to food to the music industry honestly to food to the music industry honestly to education also to government itself all education also to government itself all education also to government itself all of it. And that, you know, your of it. And that, you know, your of it. And that, you know, your music is also just the soundtrack to music is also just the soundtrack to music is also just the soundtrack to that spirit that makes America great of that spirit that makes America great of that spirit that makes America great of just constantly trying to revitalize just constantly trying to revitalize just constantly trying to revitalize itself. When the bullshit piles up a itself. When the bullshit piles up a itself. When the bullshit piles up a little too high, there's that little too high, there's that little too high, there's that revolutionary spirit that says like, "We

revolutionary spirit that says like, "We revolutionary spirit that says like, "We need to fix this shit." And and that need to fix this shit." And and that need to fix this shit." And and that inspiration that created this country inspiration that created this country inspiration that created this country was from years of people living under was from years of people living under was from years of people living under tyranny. like we forget the story of the tyranny. like we forget the story of the tyranny. like we forget the story of the people who really created this country. people who really created this country. people who really created this country. Like it's funny, I one of the statements Like it's funny, I one of the statements Like it's funny, I one of the statements I made at the very beginning that got I made at the very beginning that got I made at the very beginning that got taken way out of context, but I wasn't taken way out of context, but I wasn't taken way out of context, but I wasn't in a position to like even begin to have in a position to like even begin to have in a position to like even begin to have a conversation about is I made this a conversation about is I made this a conversation about is I made this comment early on at one of the shows comment early on at one of the shows comment early on at one of the shows about about how about about how our about about how about about how our about about how about about how our diversity is a strength. But that term diversity is a strength. But that term diversity is a strength. But that term has been hijacked now to mean something has been hijacked now to mean something has been hijacked now to mean something a lot different than what it really a lot different than what it really a lot different than what it really means. But it's like think about how means. But it's like think about how means. But it's like think about how many different people came together just many different people came together just many different people came together just at the founding of this country. like at the founding of this country. like at the founding of this country. like people who spoke different languages, people who spoke different languages, people who spoke different languages, different cultures, religions, ways of different cultures, religions, ways of different cultures, religions, ways of thinking. So many different people came thinking. So many different people came thinking. So many different people came together to even create this place now. together to even create this place now. together to even create this place now. And like we've just forgotten about all And like we've just forgotten about all And like we've just forgotten about all that. They didn't all come here because that. They didn't all come here because that. They didn't all come here because they wanted to ride on some miserable they wanted to ride on some miserable they wanted to ride on some miserable boat ride and risk their whole lives to boat ride and risk their whole lives to boat ride and risk their whole lives to go to live in some crazy jungle go to live in some crazy jungle go to live in some crazy jungle essentially that had no structure, like essentially that had no structure, like essentially that had no structure, like no infrastructure, no medicine, no like no infrastructure, no medicine, no like no infrastructure, no medicine, no like they didn't come here for like some they didn't come here for like some they didn't come here for like some glorified camping trip. is because they glorified camping trip. is because they glorified camping trip. is because they were tired of like generations of being were tired of like generations of being were tired of like generations of being persecuted and living under tyranny and persecuted and living under tyranny and persecuted and living under tyranny and not being allowed to practice their, you not being allowed to practice their, you not being allowed to practice their, you know, it's not like they wanted freedom know, it's not like they wanted freedom know, it's not like they wanted freedom of religion and they didn't want of religion and they didn't want of religion and they didn't want separation of church and state because separation of church and state because separation of church and state because they were a bunch of goody two shoes and they were a bunch of goody two shoes and they were a bunch of goody two shoes and they love going to church every Sunday.

they love going to church every Sunday. they love going to church every Sunday. It's because they weren't allowed to It's because they weren't allowed to It's because they weren't allowed to believe in what they believed in because believe in what they believed in because believe in what they believed in because some asshole king or some hierarchy told some asshole king or some hierarchy told some asshole king or some hierarchy told them they couldn't and they were just them they couldn't and they were just them they couldn't and they were just tired of it. That's what we're losing tired of it. That's what we're losing tired of it. That's what we're losing now is like we've forgotten that we're now is like we've forgotten that we're now is like we've forgotten that we're those people. like the same structures those people. like the same structures those people. like the same structures that have plagued this country are that have plagued this country are that have plagued this country are they're multinational corporations and they're multinational corporations and they're multinational corporations and they're and it's just the ideology they're and it's just the ideology they're and it's just the ideology behind them and their and their behind them and their and their behind them and their and their structure is what the problem is. Yeah. structure is what the problem is. Yeah. structure is what the problem is. Yeah. I mean it's uh multinational I mean it's uh multinational I mean it's uh multinational corporations. corporations. corporations. It's nation states that uh are deeply It's nation states that uh are deeply It's nation states that uh are deeply corrupt and are authoritarian and corrupt and are authoritarian and corrupt and are authoritarian and ultimately abuse power and yes create uh ultimately abuse power and yes create uh ultimately abuse power and yes create uh elements of tyranny and from elements of tyranny and from elements of tyranny and from that the the human spirit rises that the the human spirit rises that the the human spirit rises uh like I said with w with with with uh like I said with w with with with uh like I said with w with with with songs like the ones you write or at the songs like the ones you write or at the songs like the ones you write or at the founding in this country you know that's founding in this country you know that's founding in this country you know that's why all these diverse outcasts come why all these diverse outcasts come why all these diverse outcasts come together and write something as crazy as together and write something as crazy as together and write something as crazy as all men are created equal. What a all men are created equal. What a all men are created equal. What a gangster gangster gangster line. Like that's not an easy thing. We line. Like that's not an easy thing. We line. Like that's not an easy thing. We take a lot of that stuff for granted take a lot of that stuff for granted take a lot of that stuff for granted now. That's not an easy thing to come up now. That's not an easy thing to come up now. That's not an easy thing to come up with. That's a really gutsy thing to to with. That's a really gutsy thing to to with. That's a really gutsy thing to to see to see the value in all people see to see the value in all people see to see the value in all people equally. And of course, they also were equally. And of course, they also were equally. And of course, they also were uh suffering from delusion. You know, uh suffering from delusion. You know, uh suffering from delusion. You know, they didn't see black people as equal.

they didn't see black people as equal. they didn't see black people as equal. They didn't see women as equal. But even They didn't see women as equal. But even They didn't see women as equal. But even that first leap of like all men are that first leap of like all men are that first leap of like all men are created equal. That's like a gigantic created equal. That's like a gigantic created equal. That's like a gigantic fuck you to the past. Taking that leap fuck you to the past. Taking that leap fuck you to the past. Taking that leap forward really took a lot in an age in a forward really took a lot in an age in a forward really took a lot in an age in a time when when it probably sounded cra time when when it probably sounded cra time when when it probably sounded cra and it's not like they just made a and it's not like they just made a and it's not like they just made a statement and put it on Twitter. Like statement and put it on Twitter. Like statement and put it on Twitter. Like they they like think about how much just they they like think about how much just they they like think about how much just think about the insanity. Like I can't think about the insanity. Like I can't think about the insanity. Like I can't even conceptualize the insanity of what even conceptualize the insanity of what even conceptualize the insanity of what took place from the time that like even took place from the time that like even took place from the time that like even from the revolutionary war until now to from the revolutionary war until now to from the revolutionary war until now to try to preserve that idea. You know, so try to preserve that idea. You know, so try to preserve that idea. You know, so like so much has happened and so much like so much has happened and so much like so much has happened and so much sacrifice has been made and just so many sacrifice has been made and just so many sacrifice has been made and just so many hours of labor and thought and hours of labor and thought and hours of labor and thought and intensity. Even the 20th century's got intensity. Even the 20th century's got intensity. Even the 20th century's got two world two world two world wars and uh you know especially in the wars and uh you know especially in the wars and uh you know especially in the second world war the United States second world war the United States second world war the United States played a very crucial role and there was played a very crucial role and there was played a very crucial role and there was a lot of a lot of a lot of ideological like battle of ideas going ideological like battle of ideas going ideological like battle of ideas going on at that time. Yeah. Of the role of on at that time. Yeah. Of the role of on at that time. Yeah. Of the role of war and peace of the role of the United war and peace of the role of the United war and peace of the role of the United States as the as the center place for States as the as the center place for States as the as the center place for the ideal of human freedom and human the ideal of human freedom and human the ideal of human freedom and human rights. Yeah. We continue to innovate.

rights. Yeah. We continue to innovate. rights. Yeah. We continue to innovate. So, I'd love to get back to talking to So, I'd love to get back to talking to So, I'd love to get back to talking to blueco collar people you mentioned. Um, blueco collar people you mentioned. Um, blueco collar people you mentioned. Um, those are some of my favorite people. those are some of my favorite people. those are some of my favorite people. So, it was actually really cool to find So, it was actually really cool to find So, it was actually really cool to find out that for many years of your life, out that for many years of your life, out that for many years of your life, basically the way you made a living is basically the way you made a living is basically the way you made a living is talking to blueco collar people and talking to blueco collar people and talking to blueco collar people and getting their story. So, I'm traveling getting their story. So, I'm traveling getting their story. So, I'm traveling across the world for a bit. But of across the world for a bit. But of across the world for a bit. But of course, the world I I love the most and course, the world I I love the most and course, the world I I love the most and I'm most curious about is the different I'm most curious about is the different I'm most curious about is the different subcultures and towns of the United subcultures and towns of the United subcultures and towns of the United States. So, I I I took a road trip States. So, I I I took a road trip States. So, I I I took a road trip across the US in my early 20s for for across the US in my early 20s for for across the US in my early 20s for for several months. And that was like a several months. And that was like a several months. And that was like a transformative experience for me. And transformative experience for me. And transformative experience for me. And and that's something and that's something and that's something um one of the luxuries I have is to the um one of the luxuries I have is to the um one of the luxuries I have is to the to have the freedom to do whatever the to have the freedom to do whatever the to have the freedom to do whatever the hell I want now. And So, uh, I wanted to hell I want now. And So, uh, I wanted to hell I want now. And So, uh, I wanted to take a road trip across the United take a road trip across the United take a road trip across the United States for several months. And one of States for several months. And one of States for several months. And one of the things I wanted to do is to just to the things I wanted to do is to just to the things I wanted to do is to just to to talk to to people in in small towns to talk to to people in in small towns to talk to to people in in small towns in middle America. I don't know what in middle America. I don't know what in middle America. I don't know what words to put on it, but to talk to the words to put on it, but to talk to the words to put on it, but to talk to the very people that you talked about that very people that you talked about that very people that you talked about that that that that uh you know, construction workers, uh you know, construction workers, uh you know, construction workers, plumbers, waitresses, oil rig workers, plumbers, waitresses, oil rig workers, plumbers, waitresses, oil rig workers, just people that do just people that do just people that do something real, people that are real, something real, people that are real, something real, people that are real, that don't make much money, that that don't make much money, that that don't make much money, that struggle, but have a, as you talked

struggle, but have a, as you talked struggle, but have a, as you talked about, have like a richness. to them about, have like a richness. to them about, have like a richness. to them that's not often revealed, that's not that's not often revealed, that's not that's not often revealed, that's not often talked about. So maybe can you often talked about. So maybe can you often talked about. So maybe can you speak to that to your to your time with speak to that to your to your time with speak to that to your to your time with blueco collar folk when I got all those blueco collar folk when I got all those blueco collar folk when I got all those messages at the we were talking about messages at the we were talking about messages at the we were talking about early on earlier in this like so many of early on earlier in this like so many of early on earlier in this like so many of them and even now it's even since I even them and even now it's even since I even them and even now it's even since I even like in the last couple days I've gotten like in the last couple days I've gotten like in the last couple days I've gotten some where they start with hey I'm a some where they start with hey I'm a some where they start with hey I'm a nobody but like that's how a lot of nobody but like that's how a lot of nobody but like that's how a lot of those start you know like the nobodies those start you know like the nobodies those start you know like the nobodies of the world if you want to call them of the world if you want to call them of the world if you want to call them like that's it's it's frustrating that like that's it's it's frustrating that like that's it's it's frustrating that the the people who literally literally the the people who literally literally the the people who literally literally have have have built and preserve and have have have built and preserve and have have have built and preserve and maintain the structure of society that maintain the structure of society that maintain the structure of society that we all comfortably live in. Those people we all comfortably live in. Those people we all comfortably live in. Those people have the least amount of representation. have the least amount of representation. have the least amount of representation. They're ignored just because of the way They're ignored just because of the way They're ignored just because of the way the social hierarchy exists. But the the social hierarchy exists. But the the social hierarchy exists. But the some of the most dim-witted, some of the most dim-witted, some of the most dim-witted, irrelevant, terrible people are put here irrelevant, terrible people are put here irrelevant, terrible people are put here and are idolized and spotlighted and and are idolized and spotlighted and and are idolized and spotlighted and they're all over television and they're they're all over television and they're they're all over television and they're all over the internet and we act like all over the internet and we act like all over the internet and we act like they're like they're kings and queens they're like they're kings and queens they're like they're kings and queens and like that they're royalty. And then and like that they're royalty. And then and like that they're royalty. And then all these people who do jobs that most all these people who do jobs that most all these people who do jobs that most of us would be too terri either either of us would be too terri either either of us would be too terri either either wouldn't have the even the ability to wouldn't have the even the ability to wouldn't have the even the ability to do. We'd be ter like like how many do. We'd be ter like like how many do. We'd be ter like like how many people are going to go underwater and people are going to go underwater and people are going to go underwater and weld but if we didn't have underwater weld but if we didn't have underwater weld but if we didn't have underwater welders like one of my best friends welders like one of my best friends welders like one of my best friends whose name is also Joo funny enough the

whose name is also Joo funny enough the whose name is also Joo funny enough the dude worked 70 80 hours every week he's dude worked 70 80 hours every week he's dude worked 70 80 hours every week he's on the Chesapeake Bay uh tunnel job now on the Chesapeake Bay uh tunnel job now on the Chesapeake Bay uh tunnel job now but the dude's gotten up on gotten on but the dude's gotten up on gotten on but the dude's gotten up on gotten on heights that I couldn't get on he's went heights that I couldn't get on he's went heights that I couldn't get on he's went he's went underground places I wouldn't he's went underground places I wouldn't he's went underground places I wouldn't go and nobody will ever know like nobody go and nobody will ever know like nobody go and nobody will ever know like nobody even knows those people's stories or even knows those people's stories or even knows those people's stories or what they went through or like the kind what they went through or like the kind what they went through or like the kind of lives they lived and and they're the of lives they lived and and they're the of lives they lived and and they're the they're like the the people who create they're like the the people who create they're like the the people who create the fabric of society and even the the fabric of society and even the the fabric of society and even the waitresses and the waiters and like all waitresses and the waiters and like all waitresses and the waiters and like all these factory jobs that I worked in all these factory jobs that I worked in all these factory jobs that I worked in all those people like the you talk about the those people like the you talk about the those people like the you talk about the craziest place I ever worked and the craziest place I ever worked and the craziest place I ever worked and the craziest people I ever met was this craziest people I ever met was this craziest people I ever met was this little place called Perfect Air in little place called Perfect Air in little place called Perfect Air in Marian North Carolina and it was this Marian North Carolina and it was this Marian North Carolina and it was this commercial air conditioning factory commercial air conditioning factory commercial air conditioning factory which is I think closed now but they which is I think closed now but they which is I think closed now but they didn't pay very well and so everyone didn't pay very well and so everyone didn't pay very well and so everyone they hired was either people that had they hired was either people that had they hired was either people that had criminal backgrounds who couldn't get criminal backgrounds who couldn't get criminal backgrounds who couldn't get jobs elsewhere or idiots who dropped out jobs elsewhere or idiots who dropped out jobs elsewhere or idiots who dropped out of high school and couldn't work of high school and couldn't work of high school and couldn't work elsewhere like me. And so I was 18 years elsewhere like me. And so I was 18 years elsewhere like me. And so I was 18 years old working in this place with people old working in this place with people old working in this place with people who are mostly in their 50s and 60s. But who are mostly in their 50s and 60s. But who are mostly in their 50s and 60s. But you want to talk about being exposed to you want to talk about being exposed to you want to talk about being exposed to just a whole another world of people just a whole another world of people just a whole another world of people like and just the stories and the just like and just the stories and the just like and just the stories and the just those people are far more interesting those people are far more interesting those people are far more interesting than than many of the people that we than than many of the people that we than than many of the people that we consider to be celebrities. Like most consider to be celebrities. Like most consider to be celebrities. Like most people who are celebrities are just people who are celebrities are just people who are celebrities are just pretty boring and airheaded and don't pretty boring and airheaded and don't pretty boring and airheaded and don't really even know what real life is really even know what real life is really even know what real life is about. They're pretty unrelatable to the about. They're pretty unrelatable to the about. They're pretty unrelatable to the rest of the world. And so it would be rest of the world. And so it would be rest of the world. And so it would be really cool. I mean, that's the whole really cool. I mean, that's the whole really cool. I mean, that's the whole reason that I want to go out and do reason that I want to go out and do reason that I want to go out and do these shows in places that haven't had these shows in places that haven't had these shows in places that haven't had music in them in 10 years because those music in them in 10 years because those music in them in 10 years because those people like that is America to me. You people like that is America to me. You people like that is America to me. You know, how many people in Pittsburgh have know, how many people in Pittsburgh have know, how many people in Pittsburgh have been an hour outside of Pittsburgh? And been an hour outside of Pittsburgh? And been an hour outside of Pittsburgh? And even in Virginia, if you lived in even in Virginia, if you lived in even in Virginia, if you lived in Northern Virginia and you drive two and Northern Virginia and you drive two and Northern Virginia and you drive two and a half hours southwest, you're in a

a half hours southwest, you're in a a half hours southwest, you're in a whole another planet. Like the people, whole another planet. Like the people, whole another planet. Like the people, the accents, the culture. And so I feel the accents, the culture. And so I feel the accents, the culture. And so I feel driven in the same way. Like I would driven in the same way. Like I would driven in the same way. Like I would love to I would love to find a way to to love to I would love to find a way to to love to I would love to find a way to to try to bridge that cultural gap to make try to bridge that cultural gap to make try to bridge that cultural gap to make those people relevant and to make those people relevant and to make those people relevant and to make because they are like some of the most because they are like some of the most because they are like some of the most and like and it's funny because we and like and it's funny because we and like and it's funny because we emulate a lot of those pe like you know emulate a lot of those pe like you know emulate a lot of those pe like you know modern country music is a bunch of modern country music is a bunch of modern country music is a bunch of people emulating those people you know people emulating those people you know people emulating those people you know and there's also like uh I love people and there's also like uh I love people and there's also like uh I love people that have a skill and become masters of that have a skill and become masters of that have a skill and become masters of that skill also so that element is also that skill also so that element is also that skill also so that element is also there even if it's like insanely there even if it's like insanely there even if it's like insanely difficult work like being a minor. Like difficult work like being a minor. Like difficult work like being a minor. Like there's skill to that. There's stories there's skill to that. There's stories there's skill to that. There's stories there. There's like what it takes to do there. There's like what it takes to do there. There's like what it takes to do that. It's what I mean some of my that. It's what I mean some of my that. It's what I mean some of my favorite humans are engineers and all favorite humans are engineers and all favorite humans are engineers and all they do is solve really hard problems they do is solve really hard problems they do is solve really hard problems and they develop I mean it's a pain in and they develop I mean it's a pain in and they develop I mean it's a pain in the ass job. Yeah. Anything in the the ass job. Yeah. Anything in the the ass job. Yeah. Anything in the factories is extremely difficult but factories is extremely difficult but factories is extremely difficult but that you learn so much about what it that you learn so much about what it that you learn so much about what it takes to solve intricate like nuanced takes to solve intricate like nuanced takes to solve intricate like nuanced problems in the physical world. So coal problems in the physical world. So coal problems in the physical world. So coal mining, oil rigs, like you mentioned, mining, oil rigs, like you mentioned, mining, oil rigs, like you mentioned, welding, that's a fascinating line of welding, that's a fascinating line of welding, that's a fascinating line of work. And and those are trades that are work. And and those are trades that are work. And and those are trades that are in many cases dying because we don't in many cases dying because we don't in many cases dying because we don't because they aren't popular in culture because they aren't popular in culture because they aren't popular in culture anymore. Everything from agricultural to anymore. Everything from agricultural to anymore. Everything from agricultural to plumbing and electrical. It's like those plumbing and electrical. It's like those plumbing and electrical. It's like those are all areas I think if you were to go are all areas I think if you were to go are all areas I think if you were to go out and talk to some of those people and out and talk to some of those people and out and talk to some of those people and shed light on it, it would like you shed light on it, it would like you shed light on it, it would like you could change the you could change the

could change the you could change the could change the you could change the entire landscape in America of how of entire landscape in America of how of entire landscape in America of how of how it's perceived and like and make it how it's perceived and like and make it how it's perceived and like and make it cool, you know? Yeah. So, thank you what cool, you know? Yeah. So, thank you what cool, you know? Yeah. So, thank you what you're doing on that front. I I want to you're doing on that front. I I want to you're doing on that front. I I want to say I wrote it down. Please, if you know say I wrote it down. Please, if you know say I wrote it down. Please, if you know people that would be willing to talk, people that would be willing to talk, people that would be willing to talk, reach out to me. A good way to do that reach out to me. A good way to do that reach out to me. A good way to do that is lexfreedman.comcont. This was another one of the things early This was another one of the things early on that I had an idea about and I on that I had an idea about and I on that I had an idea about and I thought was getting done and it wasn't thought was getting done and it wasn't thought was getting done and it wasn't that I I've got to go back and try to that I I've got to go back and try to that I I've got to go back and try to figure out is doing prison shows and uh figure out is doing prison shows and uh figure out is doing prison shows and uh doing rehab shows and all that. But I am doing rehab shows and all that. But I am doing rehab shows and all that. But I am really intrigued with like going into really intrigued with like going into really intrigued with like going into those places and trying to immerse those places and trying to immerse those places and trying to immerse myself in just the the mental state that myself in just the the mental state that myself in just the the mental state that those people are in and like it's not those people are in and like it's not those people are in and like it's not talked about a whole lot. But also talked about a whole lot. But also talked about a whole lot. But also people who get out excomvicts, I mean people who get out excomvicts, I mean people who get out excomvicts, I mean that that's a hard life. That's just a that that's a hard life. That's just a that that's a hard life. That's just a hard life to try to reintegrate back hard life to try to reintegrate back hard life to try to reintegrate back into society. Yeah. And a lot of those into society. Yeah. And a lot of those into society. Yeah. And a lot of those people at Perfect Hair that I worked people at Perfect Hair that I worked people at Perfect Hair that I worked with, they almost all were in some form with, they almost all were in some form with, they almost all were in some form of legal trouble. Like there was a lady of legal trouble. Like there was a lady of legal trouble. Like there was a lady that worked on the assembly line beside that worked on the assembly line beside that worked on the assembly line beside me named Denise. And uh her and her me named Denise. And uh her and her me named Denise. And uh her and her husband had been manufacturing husband had been manufacturing husband had been manufacturing methamphetamine and he took the fall for methamphetamine and he took the fall for methamphetamine and he took the fall for most of it. She only had to go on most of it. She only had to go on most of it. She only had to go on probation. He was still in prison. But probation. He was still in prison. But probation. He was still in prison. But man, like Denise was a very sweet lady man, like Denise was a very sweet lady man, like Denise was a very sweet lady and like aside from the meth and like aside from the meth and like aside from the meth manufacturing, like she was like great, manufacturing, like she was like great, manufacturing, like she was like great, you know, like and just such a character you know, like and just such a character you know, like and just such a character like in such a good way. And so it's like in such a good way. And so it's like in such a good way. And so it's like, yeah, just Denise, lexfreeman.com, let's talk. I mean,

lexfreeman.com, let's talk. I mean, yeah, you know, like both both sort of yeah, you know, like both both sort of yeah, you know, like both both sort of the plumbers and the coal miners and uh the plumbers and the coal miners and uh the plumbers and the coal miners and uh Denise with the the old meth habits. I Denise with the the old meth habits. I Denise with the the old meth habits. I mean, they're walking the line of like, mean, they're walking the line of like, mean, they're walking the line of like, you know, surviving is hard. Yeah. So you know, surviving is hard. Yeah. So you know, surviving is hard. Yeah. So you have to do a real hard job and then you have to do a real hard job and then you have to do a real hard job and then you also have to live life which is in you also have to live life which is in you also have to live life which is in general general general hard you know divorce kids die you lose hard you know divorce kids die you lose hard you know divorce kids die you lose like the medical issues and that that like the medical issues and that that like the medical issues and that that can destroy you completely all of a can destroy you completely all of a can destroy you completely all of a sudden something happens you can't sudden something happens you can't sudden something happens you can't afford it then the the insurance system afford it then the the insurance system afford it then the the insurance system destroys people all of that. So you have destroys people all of that. So you have destroys people all of that. So you have to somehow navigate life while working to somehow navigate life while working to somehow navigate life while working your ass off in a real hard job. And your ass off in a real hard job. And your ass off in a real hard job. And those those those people, they have stories. That's a real people, they have stories. That's a real people, they have stories. That's a real pain. And from that pain, from that pain. And from that pain, from that pain. And from that pain, from that anger, that's where uh Richmond north of anger, that's where uh Richmond north of anger, that's where uh Richmond north of Richmond, that was that that you could Richmond, that was that that you could Richmond, that was that that you could just feel their pain come through with just feel their pain come through with just feel their pain come through with that song and with your other work. So that song and with your other work. So that song and with your other work. So that like there is a landscape of that like there is a landscape of that like there is a landscape of suffering. Yeah. It doesn't have to be suffering. Yeah. It doesn't have to be suffering. Yeah. It doesn't have to be that. We don't all have to be that that. We don't all have to be that that. We don't all have to be that decentralized either. Like if all if decentralized either. Like if all if decentralized either. Like if all if there is that much commonality among there is that much commonality among there is that much commonality among people, which I do believe there is, people, which I do believe there is, people, which I do believe there is, like just innately in suffering and and like just innately in suffering and and like just innately in suffering and and and yeah, like there's a guy there's a and yeah, like there's a guy there's a and yeah, like there's a guy there's a guy in West Virginia that I talked to guy in West Virginia that I talked to guy in West Virginia that I talked to that he's got a piece of property beside that he's got a piece of property beside that he's got a piece of property beside of mine that he was interested in of mine that he was interested in of mine that he was interested in selling, but the reason he's he's got

selling, but the reason he's he's got selling, but the reason he's he's got this dream of opening a um like putting this dream of opening a um like putting this dream of opening a um like putting some cabins there and renting them out some cabins there and renting them out some cabins there and renting them out for people to come Airbnb. He works at for people to come Airbnb. He works at for people to come Airbnb. He works at Lowe's full-time, but he's his son's got Lowe's full-time, but he's his son's got Lowe's full-time, but he's his son's got this his son's like 19 and has got this this his son's like 19 and has got this this his son's like 19 and has got this heart surgery he's got to have. And so, heart surgery he's got to have. And so, heart surgery he's got to have. And so, he's trying to sell the place for that. he's trying to sell the place for that. he's trying to sell the place for that. And just like just that guy and all and And just like just that guy and all and And just like just that guy and all and all you'd ever see him as is the guy all you'd ever see him as is the guy all you'd ever see him as is the guy that works at Lowe's, like pulling that works at Lowe's, like pulling that works at Lowe's, like pulling lumber or whatever, but he's got this lumber or whatever, but he's got this lumber or whatever, but he's got this very insanely complex life he's trying very insanely complex life he's trying very insanely complex life he's trying to manage. He doesn't want to lose his to manage. He doesn't want to lose his to manage. He doesn't want to lose his son. Like, he's just going to sell son. Like, he's just going to sell son. Like, he's just going to sell everything. And like at one point in everything. And like at one point in everything. And like at one point in time, maybe the church served that role time, maybe the church served that role time, maybe the church served that role of like when people really fell off of like when people really fell off of like when people really fell off track and they didn't have a support track and they didn't have a support track and they didn't have a support system and they were like on this tiny system and they were like on this tiny system and they were like on this tiny boat out in the ocean, they figured out boat out in the ocean, they figured out boat out in the ocean, they figured out some kind of way to rally. In my mind, some kind of way to rally. In my mind, some kind of way to rally. In my mind, that's like the dream of all this. If I that's like the dream of all this. If I that's like the dream of all this. If I if I die and there's any like legacy if I die and there's any like legacy if I die and there's any like legacy left or anything done, it's like finding left or anything done, it's like finding left or anything done, it's like finding a way to take all the people that fill a way to take all the people that fill a way to take all the people that fill that role and organizing them and that role and organizing them and that role and organizing them and empowering them and protecting them. empowering them and protecting them. empowering them and protecting them. It's rebuilding the community, but in a It's rebuilding the community, but in a It's rebuilding the community, but in a real way, not in like this fairy tale real way, not in like this fairy tale real way, not in like this fairy tale bullshit. Everybody's going to love each bullshit. Everybody's going to love each bullshit. Everybody's going to love each other and we're all just going to be one other and we're all just going to be one other and we're all just going to be one big happy family. Like everybody's still big happy family. Like everybody's still big happy family. Like everybody's still going to get mad and hate each other in going to get mad and hate each other in going to get mad and hate each other in certain ways and that's good. Like we certain ways and that's good. Like we certain ways and that's good. Like we all we need those tornadoes like you all we need those tornadoes like you all we need those tornadoes like you said. We need people pissed off and said. We need people pissed off and said. We need people pissed off and angry and and we need people to feel angry and and we need people to feel angry and and we need people to feel like they can be angry and open about like they can be angry and open about like they can be angry and open about things that are wrong. Like people things that are wrong. Like people things that are wrong. Like people should be able to speak their mind and should be able to speak their mind and should be able to speak their mind and we shouldn't all just kiss each other's we shouldn't all just kiss each other's we shouldn't all just kiss each other's ass and we shouldn't all just pretend to ass and we shouldn't all just pretend to ass and we shouldn't all just pretend to be overly polite and say, "Hey Debbie, be overly polite and say, "Hey Debbie, be overly polite and say, "Hey Debbie, you have a good weekend like you said."

you have a good weekend like you said." you have a good weekend like you said." Like we need all this controversy and Like we need all this controversy and Like we need all this controversy and this turmoil and like we need the hell this turmoil and like we need the hell this turmoil and like we need the hell of what that side that that the internet of what that side that that the internet of what that side that that the internet brings out in people, but it just needs brings out in people, but it just needs brings out in people, but it just needs to be in real life and it needs to be in to be in real life and it needs to be in to be in real life and it needs to be in a way where we're all like we all are at a way where we're all like we all are at a way where we're all like we all are at least chasing the same common goal, least chasing the same common goal, least chasing the same common goal, which is probably that we don't want to which is probably that we don't want to which is probably that we don't want to starve and we want to have decent health starve and we want to have decent health starve and we want to have decent health and and we want to be able to like and and we want to be able to like and and we want to be able to like provide a decent life for our kids or at provide a decent life for our kids or at provide a decent life for our kids or at least we just don't, you know, we just least we just don't, you know, we just least we just don't, you know, we just want to live a decent life. like want to live a decent life. like want to live a decent life. like um I think somehow that that fixes um I think somehow that that fixes um I think somehow that that fixes like that fixes what you describe like like that fixes what you describe like like that fixes what you describe like the people who who fall in despair and the people who who fall in despair and the people who who fall in despair and are isolated in it. It's a terrifying are isolated in it. It's a terrifying are isolated in it. It's a terrifying world to live in. It's that principle world to live in. It's that principle world to live in. It's that principle again. This is I need a phone a friend again. This is I need a phone a friend again. This is I need a phone a friend thing where we can just keep calling thing where we can just keep calling thing where we can just keep calling Jordan for all these things. But like he Jordan for all these things. But like he Jordan for all these things. But like he explains there's this principle in the explains there's this principle in the explains there's this principle in the Bible about about those who about the Bible about about those who about the Bible about about those who about the more you have the more you'll receive more you have the more you'll receive more you have the more you'll receive and the less you have the less you the and the less you have the less you the and the less you have the less you the less you'll receive kind of a thing. And less you'll receive kind of a thing. And less you'll receive kind of a thing. And it's a it's just a universal law in it's a it's just a universal law in it's a it's just a universal law in society where it seems like the lower society where it seems like the lower society where it seems like the lower you get to the bottom, it's almost like you get to the bottom, it's almost like you get to the bottom, it's almost like the more like the less resources you the more like the less resources you the more like the less resources you have available and the less the less have available and the less the less have available and the less the less friends you have. And it's like you just friends you have. And it's like you just friends you have. And it's like you just the the further you go snowballs into the the further you go snowballs into the the further you go snowballs into where it's like people just hit rock where it's like people just hit rock where it's like people just hit rock bottom and then and then what it's like bottom and then and then what it's like bottom and then and then what it's like when you get out of prison, what do you when you get out of prison, what do you when you get out of prison, what do you what are you supposed to do? Or when what are you supposed to do? Or when what are you supposed to do? Or when you're a veteran with mental health, you're a veteran with mental health, you're a veteran with mental health, like what are you supposed to do? Like like what are you supposed to do? Like like what are you supposed to do? Like in my mind that's what the church is in my mind that's what the church is in my mind that's what the church is supposed to be there for is like but supposed to be there for is like but supposed to be there for is like but obviously it doesn't fill that role obviously it doesn't fill that role obviously it doesn't fill that role anymore to some people at least religion anymore to some people at least religion anymore to some people at least religion does a little bit. It gives uh it's at

does a little bit. It gives uh it's at does a little bit. It gives uh it's at least a foundation of community a least a foundation of community a least a foundation of community a foundation of hope for people and when foundation of hope for people and when foundation of hope for people and when they're really struggling. Yeah. You got they're really struggling. Yeah. You got they're really struggling. Yeah. You got thousands of messages like you talked thousands of messages like you talked thousands of messages like you talked about from people. You gotten to talk to about from people. You gotten to talk to about from people. You gotten to talk to thousands of people about their pain. thousands of people about their pain. thousands of people about their pain. Through your work, through your music, Through your work, through your music, Through your work, through your music, you've been an inspiration to those you've been an inspiration to those you've been an inspiration to those people to find a way out of the pain. people to find a way out of the pain. people to find a way out of the pain. Can you tell the full story of your own Can you tell the full story of your own Can you tell the full story of your own lowest lowest lowest point before before all of this, before point before before all of this, before point before before all of this, before the before the music, before you blew the before the music, before you blew the before the music, before you blew up? Uh, can you take me through the up? Uh, can you take me through the up? Uh, can you take me through the story of the depression, the story of the depression, the story of the depression, the drinking, and just the roughest times in drinking, and just the roughest times in drinking, and just the roughest times in your life? your life? your life? It's sometimes it's not even, you know, It's sometimes it's not even, you know, It's sometimes it's not even, you know, it it's funny, but it's almost not even it it's funny, but it's almost not even it it's funny, but it's almost not even where you're at in life. It's where you where you're at in life. It's where you where you're at in life. It's where you perceive yourself at in life and what perceive yourself at in life and what perceive yourself at in life and what your what your goals are moving forward. your what your goals are moving forward. your what your goals are moving forward. And I think And I think And I think like, you know, I was I dropped out of like, you know, I was I dropped out of like, you know, I was I dropped out of high school at 17, basically ran away high school at 17, basically ran away high school at 17, basically ran away from home. I just I couldn't I have from home. I just I couldn't I have from home. I just I couldn't I have always had this authority problem and so always had this authority problem and so always had this authority problem and so I just didn't want to listen to my I just didn't want to listen to my I just didn't want to listen to my parents. I didn't want to go to college.

parents. I didn't want to go to college. parents. I didn't want to go to college. I just wanted to go move into the I just wanted to go move into the I just wanted to go move into the mountains. I was running away from mountains. I was running away from mountains. I was running away from responsibility I guess is what I was responsibility I guess is what I was responsibility I guess is what I was doing, you know. And so got this girl doing, you know. And so got this girl doing, you know. And so got this girl pregnant. Had my first kid when I was 18 pregnant. Had my first kid when I was 18 pregnant. Had my first kid when I was 18 or just about to turn 19. And like I or just about to turn 19. And like I or just about to turn 19. And like I said, I'm working in an air conditioning said, I'm working in an air conditioning said, I'm working in an air conditioning factory with a bunch of convicted factory with a bunch of convicted factory with a bunch of convicted felons. And so from there, everything felons. And so from there, everything felons. And so from there, everything was just reactionary. I never really had was just reactionary. I never really had was just reactionary. I never really had a plan. and I would jump from job to job a plan. and I would jump from job to job a plan. and I would jump from job to job just like most everybody else. I don't just like most everybody else. I don't just like most everybody else. I don't know. I just I just got to a point where know. I just I just got to a point where know. I just I just got to a point where I guess I just quit believing in myself I guess I just quit believing in myself I guess I just quit believing in myself and I knew that I wasn't doing I just and I knew that I wasn't doing I just and I knew that I wasn't doing I just knew I wasn't doing I wasn't filling my knew I wasn't doing I wasn't filling my knew I wasn't doing I wasn't filling my purpose and I wasn't being the best purpose and I wasn't being the best purpose and I wasn't being the best version of myself I could be. And so the version of myself I could be. And so the version of myself I could be. And so the the alternative to like facing yourself the alternative to like facing yourself the alternative to like facing yourself in the mirror and accepting that that in the mirror and accepting that that in the mirror and accepting that that I'm not a shitty person. I've just let I'm not a shitty person. I've just let I'm not a shitty person. I've just let myself fall. You know, it's like it's so myself fall. You know, it's like it's so myself fall. You know, it's like it's so hard to accept when you've had that fall hard to accept when you've had that fall hard to accept when you've had that fall that it's just easier to just just to that it's just easier to just just to that it's just easier to just just to get drunk and, you know, just do the get drunk and, you know, just do the get drunk and, you know, just do the bare minimum you can to keep everything bare minimum you can to keep everything bare minimum you can to keep everything sort of kind of moving along. But you sort of kind of moving along. But you sort of kind of moving along. But you don't really care if you live or die. don't really care if you live or die. don't really care if you live or die. You don't you don't really care about You don't you don't really care about You don't you don't really care about much anything. Like your whole, you much anything. Like your whole, you much anything. Like your whole, you know, I don't know. Life is just so know, I don't know. Life is just so know, I don't know. Life is just so beautiful when you're a child. you're so beautiful when you're a child. you're so beautiful when you're a child. you're so imaginative and exploratory and you're imaginative and exploratory and you're imaginative and exploratory and you're learning all these things and you just learning all these things and you just learning all these things and you just you just can't wait to be an adult you just can't wait to be an adult you just can't wait to be an adult because you're just going to go out and because you're just going to go out and because you're just going to go out and do all these do all these do all these incredible, you know, and then you face incredible, you know, and then you face incredible, you know, and then you face the reality of it. Yeah. And the the reality of it. Yeah. And the the reality of it. Yeah. And the pressure and the fear of failure, like I pressure and the fear of failure, like I pressure and the fear of failure, like I think maybe even my own fear of failure think maybe even my own fear of failure think maybe even my own fear of failure is what drove is what drove me. And uh is what drove is what drove me. And uh is what drove is what drove me. And uh but yeah, you just and you you think but yeah, you just and you you think but yeah, you just and you you think negatively about yourself for so many negatively about yourself for so many negatively about yourself for so many days and weeks and months and you like

days and weeks and months and you like days and weeks and months and you like you don't even have a real you don't even have a real you don't even have a real self-awareness of like what you're doing self-awareness of like what you're doing self-awareness of like what you're doing or how destructive you've become, but or how destructive you've become, but or how destructive you've become, but you always have that that discernment in you always have that that discernment in you always have that that discernment in you that you that you that like that conscious, you know, that like that conscious, you know, that like that conscious, you know, that little voice in your in your spirit that little voice in your in your spirit that little voice in your in your spirit that is letting you know you're messing up, is letting you know you're messing up, is letting you know you're messing up, you know? I was almost like in I was you know? I was almost like in I was you know? I was almost like in I was wrestling with myself, you know, and so wrestling with myself, you know, and so wrestling with myself, you know, and so I don't know. I just got to a point I don't know. I just got to a point I don't know. I just got to a point where it just where it just where it just like I Yeah, just a just a I Yeah, just a just a very just a very overwhelming sense of very just a very overwhelming sense of very just a very overwhelming sense of numbness like like it don't like nothing numbness like like it don't like nothing numbness like like it don't like nothing really nothing that mattered before really nothing that mattered before really nothing that mattered before really matters anymore. Like I guess really matters anymore. Like I guess really matters anymore. Like I guess that's that's probably to me the that's that's probably to me the that's that's probably to me the definition of depression is when all the definition of depression is when all the definition of depression is when all the things you love and care about are just things you love and care about are just things you love and care about are just meaningless and you can't find you meaningless and you can't find you meaningless and you can't find you really can't find meaning or purpose or really can't find meaning or purpose or really can't find meaning or purpose or excitement in excitement in excitement in anything, you know, anything, you know, anything, you know, like like I think especially with men like like I think especially with men like like I think especially with men that commit suicide, it's a it's a that commit suicide, it's a it's a that commit suicide, it's a it's a prolonged period of that. It's not like prolonged period of that. It's not like prolonged period of that. It's not like they just wake up one day and they have they just wake up one day and they have they just wake up one day and they have a bad day and they kill themselves. It's a bad day and they kill themselves. It's a bad day and they kill themselves. It's like you self-reflect negatively about like you self-reflect negatively about like you self-reflect negatively about yourself and your life and you don't do yourself and your life and you don't do yourself and your life and you don't do the things that you're supposed to do the things that you're supposed to do the things that you're supposed to do every day for a long enough period of every day for a long enough period of every day for a long enough period of time. And it's like pretty soon you've time. And it's like pretty soon you've time. And it's like pretty soon you've built this whole mountain of of of mismanaged, of mismanaged, neglected stuff, for lack of a better neglected stuff, for lack of a better neglected stuff, for lack of a better word, like this mountain that you have

word, like this mountain that you have word, like this mountain that you have to climb back up in order to fix all to climb back up in order to fix all to climb back up in order to fix all these things that you should have been these things that you should have been these things that you should have been doing all along. And then the and then doing all along. And then the and then doing all along. And then the and then on the other side of it, it's like, on the other side of it, it's like, on the other side of it, it's like, well, I could just die. Like that seems well, I could just die. Like that seems well, I could just die. Like that seems a lot like it's almost like for I think a lot like it's almost like for I think a lot like it's almost like for I think from a man's perspective maybe the from a man's perspective maybe the from a man's perspective maybe the friends that I've had that I've lost it friends that I've had that I've lost it friends that I've had that I've lost it seems like a lot of times you think you seems like a lot of times you think you seems like a lot of times you think you you'd never see it coming you know like you'd never see it coming you know like you'd never see it coming you know like I don't know maybe that's a general I don't know maybe that's a general I don't know maybe that's a general thing with it seems like a lot of times thing with it seems like a lot of times thing with it seems like a lot of times men mask that better and you don't pick men mask that better and you don't pick men mask that better and you don't pick up on it as much but up on it as much but up on it as much but um I think it's like you just dig um I think it's like you just dig um I think it's like you just dig yourself into a point to where it's like yourself into a point to where it's like yourself into a point to where it's like you have a mountain of responsibility in you have a mountain of responsibility in you have a mountain of responsibility in front of you that you haven't faced that front of you that you haven't faced that front of you that you haven't faced that you don't know how to face and you h you you don't know how to face and you h you you don't know how to face and you h you haven't been able to do so for a long haven't been able to do so for a long haven't been able to do so for a long time. But there's this really easy time. But there's this really easy time. But there's this really easy detour and it's just, you detour and it's just, you detour and it's just, you know, putting your big toe on the know, putting your big toe on the know, putting your big toe on the trigger and it's like which one of those trigger and it's like which one of those trigger and it's like which one of those are I don't know like they both seem but are I don't know like they both seem but are I don't know like they both seem but at that point your your perception of at that point your your perception of at that point your your perception of reality is so distorted that like you reality is so distorted that like you reality is so distorted that like you don't all the things that would normally don't all the things that would normally don't all the things that would normally compel you to to move along like your compel you to to move along like your compel you to to move along like your like love and joy and like your your like love and joy and like your your like love and joy and like your your drive you know your drive to to be that drive you know your drive to to be that drive you know your drive to to be that none of that really it's not there for none of that really it's not there for none of that really it's not there for you to even contemplate if that makes you to even contemplate if that makes you to even contemplate if that makes sense. It's it's like that part's is sense. It's it's like that part's is sense. It's it's like that part's is almost like at least for a little while almost like at least for a little while almost like at least for a little while invisible and all you see is fear and invisible and all you see is fear and invisible and all you see is fear and responsibility and just this like I said responsibility and just this like I said responsibility and just this like I said I just v I just envision it like a I just v I just envision it like a I just v I just envision it like a mountain that you don't you don't really mountain that you don't you don't really mountain that you don't you don't really know if you're even able to climb and know if you're even able to climb and know if you're even able to climb and then the other option is then the other option is then the other option is just so I I think that's probably where

just so I I think that's probably where just so I I think that's probably where that's probably where a lot of people go that's probably where a lot of people go that's probably where a lot of people go and that's probably where I was was just and that's probably where I was was just and that's probably where I was was just like you know yeah I mean there is the like you know yeah I mean there is the like you know yeah I mean there is the it's Not just responsibilities, the it's Not just responsibilities, the it's Not just responsibilities, the immensity of it, the immensity of it, the immensity of it, the mountain. And I think you're accurately mountain. And I think you're accurately mountain. And I think you're accurately describing how it happens, which is describing how it happens, which is describing how it happens, which is gradually. Yeah. Seeing yourself in a gradually. Yeah. Seeing yourself in a gradually. Yeah. Seeing yourself in a negative light over time slowly negative light over time slowly negative light over time slowly suffocates you and then the burden of suffocates you and then the burden of suffocates you and then the burden of the responsibility that piles the responsibility that piles the responsibility that piles up. And up. And up. And unfortunately, of course, one of the unfortunately, of course, one of the unfortunately, of course, one of the ways out is to pull the trigger and the ways out is to pull the trigger and the ways out is to pull the trigger and the other way out is the Jordan Peterson other way out is the Jordan Peterson other way out is the Jordan Peterson back to Jordan sort of one gradual step back to Jordan sort of one gradual step back to Jordan sort of one gradual step at a time like make your bed. Mhm. It's at a time like make your bed. Mhm. It's at a time like make your bed. Mhm. It's like start climbing out like the like start climbing out like the like start climbing out like the responsibilities before you one at a responsibilities before you one at a responsibilities before you one at a time every single day just climbing out time every single day just climbing out time every single day just climbing out and have faith that it will work out. and have faith that it will work out. and have faith that it will work out. That was what was so powerful for me That was what was so powerful for me That was what was so powerful for me about just beginning to open my mind about just beginning to open my mind about just beginning to open my mind back up to reading just a little bit of back up to reading just a little bit of back up to reading just a little bit of stuff like a little bit of stuff from stuff like a little bit of stuff from stuff like a little bit of stuff from the New Testament that Jesus said and the New Testament that Jesus said and the New Testament that Jesus said and some different perspectives and some different perspectives and some different perspectives and teachings but like you know an apostle teachings but like you know an apostle teachings but like you know an apostle would be in prison like basically being would be in prison like basically being would be in prison like basically being tortured and facing death but like just tortured and facing death but like just tortured and facing death but like just overjoyed in writing about talking about overjoyed in writing about talking about overjoyed in writing about talking about it's all about your perspective of it's all about your perspective of it's all about your perspective of things like I said like that's why I things like I said like that's why I things like I said like that's why I never could understand why you know like never could understand why you know like never could understand why you know like celebrities or professional I And giving celebrities or professional I And giving celebrities or professional I And giving one example of many like a Kurt Cobain

one example of many like a Kurt Cobain one example of many like a Kurt Cobain type scenario where you have a guy type scenario where you have a guy type scenario where you have a guy that's just immensely talented that's just immensely talented that's just immensely talented just will always be loved by plenty of just will always be loved by plenty of just will always be loved by plenty of people like I never could understand why people like I never could understand why people like I never could understand why that guy there's a ocean of quiet that guy there's a ocean of quiet that guy there's a ocean of quiet suffering in uh in a lot of and I think suffering in uh in a lot of and I think suffering in uh in a lot of and I think it is disproportionately in men in a lot it is disproportionately in men in a lot it is disproportionately in men in a lot of men and they hide it well that's why of men and they hide it well that's why of men and they hide it well that's why blue collar workers have such a high blue collar workers have such a high blue collar workers have such a high suicide rate and all too and why it is suicide rate and all too and why it is suicide rate and all too and why it is so important to talk to those table and so important to talk to those table and so important to talk to those table and yeah it's in you can see it in the eyes yeah it's in you can see it in the eyes yeah it's in you can see it in the eyes and there there there is there is a lot and there there there is there is a lot and there there there is there is a lot of pain there without like trying to get of pain there without like trying to get of pain there without like trying to get without like trying to open up too many without like trying to open up too many without like trying to open up too many doors I think that's probably the best doors I think that's probably the best doors I think that's probably the best way I would describe it is just a series way I would describe it is just a series way I would describe it is just a series of of of really just a series of negligent really just a series of negligent really just a series of negligent decisions and also just misperceptions decisions and also just misperceptions decisions and also just misperceptions you know like I think this was an Andrew you know like I think this was an Andrew you know like I think this was an Andrew Huberman thing where he talks about Huberman thing where he talks about Huberman thing where he talks about medications and how it's a lot more medications and how it's a lot more medications and how it's a lot more likely for somebody to keep their dog on likely for somebody to keep their dog on likely for somebody to keep their dog on their medication schedule but not their medication schedule but not their medication schedule but not themselves. You know, you love your dog themselves. You know, you love your dog themselves. You know, you love your dog and your dog like is just this great and your dog like is just this great and your dog like is just this great little thing and you just you don't see little thing and you just you don't see little thing and you just you don't see the flaws and the faults and the sin and the flaws and the faults and the sin and the flaws and the faults and the sin and the disgust in your dog that you do the disgust in your dog that you do the disgust in your dog that you do yourself. So, it's much more likely for yourself. So, it's much more likely for yourself. So, it's much more likely for people to make sure their dog has their people to make sure their dog has their people to make sure their dog has their medication every day. But like there's medication every day. But like there's medication every day. But like there's this alarming statistic with just the this alarming statistic with just the this alarming statistic with just the amount of people that don't even fill amount of people that don't even fill amount of people that don't even fill their prescriptions they need filled or their prescriptions they need filled or their prescriptions they need filled or take care of themselves the way they do.

take care of themselves the way they do. take care of themselves the way they do. And and then that also like over time, And and then that also like over time, And and then that also like over time, you know, like if you quit taking care you know, like if you quit taking care you know, like if you quit taking care of yourself and you're not in good of yourself and you're not in good of yourself and you're not in good health and you're and you're you're not health and you're and you're you're not health and you're and you're you're not in a good routine, you're not doing in a good routine, you're not doing in a good routine, you're not doing you're not like a ser a long series of you're not like a ser a long series of you're not like a ser a long series of doing enough of those things. Like you doing enough of those things. Like you doing enough of those things. Like you do, it's easy for you to just think that do, it's easy for you to just think that do, it's easy for you to just think that your self-worth is zero. Cuz if you're your self-worth is zero. Cuz if you're your self-worth is zero. Cuz if you're not even willing to like if you're not not even willing to like if you're not not even willing to like if you're not even willing to like have basic hygiene even willing to like have basic hygiene even willing to like have basic hygiene and and eat decent food and try to take and and eat decent food and try to take and and eat decent food and try to take care of yourself, it's like why? How care of yourself, it's like why? How care of yourself, it's like why? How like how on earth are you going to go like how on earth are you going to go like how on earth are you going to go face all these things that you need to face all these things that you need to face all these things that you need to face to get your life better if you face to get your life better if you face to get your life better if you can't you don't even care enough to do can't you don't even care enough to do can't you don't even care enough to do that? It's just like but it is it's a that? It's just like but it is it's a that? It's just like but it is it's a it's a it's a it's a long tragic road to it's a it's a it's a long tragic road to it's a it's a it's a long tragic road to get to that point. I think at least in get to that point. I think at least in get to that point. I think at least in my case, the idea that there was my case, the idea that there was my case, the idea that there was something bigger than me that loved me something bigger than me that loved me something bigger than me that loved me even despite I had all these flaws and even despite I had all these flaws and even despite I had all these flaws and problems and just that I was just such a problems and just that I was just such a problems and just that I was just such a wretched person. That's what at least in wretched person. That's what at least in wretched person. That's what at least in my situation, that's what I think helped my situation, that's what I think helped my situation, that's what I think helped put, you know, more than anything. Like put, you know, more than anything. Like put, you know, more than anything. Like I said, that's certainly where the I said, that's certainly where the I said, that's certainly where the motivation to quit the once I quit the motivation to quit the once I quit the motivation to quit the once I quit the drinking, it helped a lot because I was drinking, it helped a lot because I was drinking, it helped a lot because I was able to even though it was a pain, it able to even though it was a pain, it able to even though it was a pain, it was difficult, I was able to actually be was difficult, I was able to actually be was difficult, I was able to actually be able to be honest with myself and able to be honest with myself and able to be honest with myself and reflect on a lot of things that were and reflect on a lot of things that were and reflect on a lot of things that were and you know, you got to think like I said, you know, you got to think like I said, you know, you got to think like I said, I we watched the I mean, it was like I we watched the I mean, it was like I we watched the I mean, it was like with of course in my case it was a with of course in my case it was a with of course in my case it was a little unfair of an example cuz within a little unfair of an example cuz within a little unfair of an example cuz within a month all this stuff had happened like month all this stuff had happened like month all this stuff had happened like after I quit, but you know, um I see it after I quit, but you know, um I see it after I quit, but you know, um I see it in my friends that have quit and have in my friends that have quit and have in my friends that have quit and have tried to turn things around and it you tried to turn things around and it you tried to turn things around and it you know it's like it's it's it is the most know it's like it's it's it is the most know it's like it's it's it is the most beautiful thing in the world to see beautiful thing in the world to see beautiful thing in the world to see somebody like come to life again after somebody like come to life again after somebody like come to life again after being in one of those you're able to

being in one of those you're able to being in one of those you're able to like sort of like escape this shell of like sort of like escape this shell of like sort of like escape this shell of of all those terrible things. And even of all those terrible things. And even of all those terrible things. And even if you are still in a bad position and if you are still in a bad position and if you are still in a bad position and you're still you got 30 grand worth of you're still you got 30 grand worth of you're still you got 30 grand worth of credit card debt and you're working some credit card debt and you're working some credit card debt and you're working some shit job and your car doesn't start half shit job and your car doesn't start half shit job and your car doesn't start half the time and like you know your the time and like you know your the time and like you know your girlfriend left you for some other dude girlfriend left you for some other dude girlfriend left you for some other dude and like don't matter what it is like if and like don't matter what it is like if and like don't matter what it is like if if at least that little glimmer of hope if at least that little glimmer of hope if at least that little glimmer of hope that like that faith that there is a that like that faith that there is a that like that faith that there is a chance at something greater like that chance at something greater like that chance at something greater like that can that'll push people you can put you can that'll push people you can put you can that'll push people you can put you can push you can push a mountain aside can push you can push a mountain aside can push you can push a mountain aside with that you know like you can do with that you know like you can do with that you know like you can do anything with that and I think it's also anything with that and I think it's also anything with that and I think it's also good I think it is important to have a good I think it is important to have a good I think it is important to have a good support structure. Like when you good support structure. Like when you good support structure. Like when you get to that point, I don't think you get to that point, I don't think you get to that point, I don't think you should I don't think anybody should have should I don't think anybody should have should I don't think anybody should have to face that stuff by to face that stuff by to face that stuff by themselves. And there's plenty of other themselves. And there's plenty of other themselves. And there's plenty of other people out there that are in the same people out there that are in the same people out there that are in the same position. And I think that's again I position. And I think that's again I position. And I think that's again I think that's why it's so important for think that's why it's so important for think that's why it's so important for us to try to get reconnected on a us to try to get reconnected on a us to try to get reconnected on a personal level and not just through personal level and not just through personal level and not just through digital communication because like we digital communication because like we digital communication because like we don't real we don't all we see of each don't real we don't all we see of each don't real we don't all we see of each other online is the good stuff. Yeah. other online is the good stuff. Yeah. other online is the good stuff. Yeah. Very rarely are people on posting on Very rarely are people on posting on Very rarely are people on posting on Facebook talking about, you know, how Facebook talking about, you know, how Facebook talking about, you know, how could you even It's like all you see is could you even It's like all you see is could you even It's like all you see is the best of people. But I don't think we the best of people. But I don't think we the best of people. But I don't think we realize that we're all going through a realize that we're all going through a realize that we're all going through a lot of the same things anyway. You know, lot of the same things anyway. You know, lot of the same things anyway. You know, the low points and stuff. Guess what the low points and stuff. Guess what the low points and stuff. Guess what happens when you either lose your job or happens when you either lose your job or happens when you either lose your job or can't quite figure out a good job and can't quite figure out a good job and can't quite figure out a good job and you're not making that much money or you're not making that much money or you're not making that much money or you're basically broke and you have a you're basically broke and you have a you're basically broke and you have a girlfriend that's not happy about you girlfriend that's not happy about you girlfriend that's not happy about you being broke, she's going to leave you.

being broke, she's going to leave you. being broke, she's going to leave you. or if it's a wife that could face or if it's a wife that could face or if it's a wife that could face divorce and like the breakups and divorce and like the breakups and divorce and like the breakups and divorce can break a lot of people even divorce can break a lot of people even divorce can break a lot of people even when they're doing well. Yeah. And now when they're doing well. Yeah. And now when they're doing well. Yeah. And now when they're not doing well, when they're not doing well, when they're not doing well, that's a rough one. And that basically that's a rough one. And that basically that's a rough one. And that basically your support system for a lot of people your support system for a lot of people your support system for a lot of people is the relationship is the is the wife is the relationship is the is the wife is the relationship is the is the wife and the and so like that's taken the and the and so like that's taken the and the and so like that's taken the support system from underneath you. And support system from underneath you. And support system from underneath you. And I've had good friends of mine I've seen I've had good friends of mine I've seen I've had good friends of mine I've seen get in destructive relationships and get in destructive relationships and get in destructive relationships and like they'll start to date a girl and like they'll start to date a girl and like they'll start to date a girl and then like within a year they're just then like within a year they're just then like within a year they're just like a shell of what they were because like a shell of what they were because like a shell of what they were because sometimes I do think it's I do think you sometimes I do think it's I do think you sometimes I do think it's I do think you have to be careful with like your self have to be careful with like your self have to be careful with like your self validation and the way you perceive validation and the way you perceive validation and the way you perceive yourself and making sure that it's you yourself and making sure that it's you yourself and making sure that it's you giving yourself that and not somebody giving yourself that and not somebody giving yourself that and not somebody else. cuz I do think too it's like yeah else. cuz I do think too it's like yeah else. cuz I do think too it's like yeah like you're you know how are you like you're you know how are you like you're you know how are you supposed to if you can't even if you supposed to if you can't even if you supposed to if you can't even if you can't even keep a woman around to love can't even keep a woman around to love can't even keep a woman around to love you right like how are you supposed to you right like how are you supposed to you right like how are you supposed to love yourself it's easy to think about love yourself it's easy to think about love yourself it's easy to think about that like I' I've seen a lot of men get that like I' I've seen a lot of men get that like I' I've seen a lot of men get wrecked in bad relationships and stuff wrecked in bad relationships and stuff wrecked in bad relationships and stuff too that's it's a it's tough you know too that's it's a it's tough you know too that's it's a it's tough you know yeah ultimately I think maybe dark to yeah ultimately I think maybe dark to yeah ultimately I think maybe dark to say but there is there is a base layer say but there is there is a base layer say but there is there is a base layer at which we're we're alone in this at which we're we're alone in this at which we're we're alone in this world like you need to be strong by world like you need to be strong by world like you need to be strong by yourself first and foremost. Cuz yourself first and foremost. Cuz yourself first and foremost. Cuz sometimes there will be times in life sometimes there will be times in life sometimes there will be times in life when everybody leaves you. Yeah. The when everybody leaves you. Yeah. The when everybody leaves you. Yeah. The wife leaves you, the job leaves you, and wife leaves you, the job leaves you, and wife leaves you, the job leaves you, and for some people might even people you for some people might even people you for some people might even people you thought are friends will backstab you.

thought are friends will backstab you. thought are friends will backstab you. And even then, you have to have the And even then, you have to have the And even then, you have to have the strength to find your footing again. strength to find your footing again. strength to find your footing again. Like that that ultimately comes from Like that that ultimately comes from Like that that ultimately comes from you, right? I mean, man, of course, like you, right? I mean, man, of course, like you, right? I mean, man, of course, like I said, in all the experiences I've been I said, in all the experiences I've been I said, in all the experiences I've been through, just I can't I'd be a fool to through, just I can't I'd be a fool to through, just I can't I'd be a fool to deny it. But like I do think there is deny it. But like I do think there is deny it. But like I do think there is God there that that's always there if God there that that's always there if God there that that's always there if you're but you certainly can selfisolate you're but you certainly can selfisolate you're but you certainly can selfisolate yourself too even from that. If you can yourself too even from that. If you can yourself too even from that. If you can find faith in yourself, I've seen it do find faith in yourself, I've seen it do find faith in yourself, I've seen it do wonderful things for human wonderful things for human wonderful things for human beings. You and God, faith in something beings. You and God, faith in something beings. You and God, faith in something bigger than you. Yeah, that can give bigger than you. Yeah, that can give bigger than you. Yeah, that can give strength to a lot of people. But strength to a lot of people. But strength to a lot of people. But uh allowing yourself to derive strength uh allowing yourself to derive strength uh allowing yourself to derive strength solely from other people can be a solely from other people can be a solely from other people can be a dangerous thing. Mhm. Cuz people are dangerous thing. Mhm. Cuz people are dangerous thing. Mhm. Cuz people are complicated and they can betray, they complicated and they can betray, they complicated and they can betray, they can can can um just like they can fill your life um just like they can fill your life um just like they can fill your life with love, they could also destroy you. with love, they could also destroy you. with love, they could also destroy you. That's also the beautiful thing about That's also the beautiful thing about That's also the beautiful thing about life. life. life. Yeah, it is. You make yourself Yeah, it is. You make yourself Yeah, it is. You make yourself vulnerable to other people. You form vulnerable to other people. You form vulnerable to other people. You form deep relationships.

deep relationships. deep relationships. That means they can also destroy you. So That means they can also destroy you. So That means they can also destroy you. So that's that's that's life. That's what makes this whole thing life. That's what makes this whole thing life. That's what makes this whole thing that's what And then you write really that's what And then you write really that's what And then you write really great heartbreak songs. great heartbreak songs. great heartbreak songs. Yeah. You know, people, you know, Yeah. You know, people, you know, Yeah. You know, people, you know, there's something valuable about people there's something valuable about people there's something valuable about people fucking you over and and hardship and fucking you over and and hardship and fucking you over and and hardship and all that kind of stuff. Even the best of all that kind of stuff. Even the best of all that kind of stuff. Even the best of us have terrible parts of us. Like we us have terrible parts of us. Like we us have terrible parts of us. Like we are all flawed inherently because we're are all flawed inherently because we're are all flawed inherently because we're human. And so there there'll never be a there'll so there there'll never be a there'll never be another Garden of Eden on earth never be another Garden of Eden on earth never be another Garden of Eden on earth like figuratively where where we all like figuratively where where we all like figuratively where where we all just live harmoniously and everything's just live harmoniously and everything's just live harmoniously and everything's great and happy and wonderful. But it is great and happy and wonderful. But it is great and happy and wonderful. But it is it's those basic principles that you it's those basic principles that you it's those basic principles that you talk about like love and our and those talk about like love and our and those talk about like love and our and those relationships and those connections that relationships and those connections that relationships and those connections that we have that that make it all because we have that that make it all because we have that that make it all because the thing about it I mean like in a lot the thing about it I mean like in a lot the thing about it I mean like in a lot of cases it's like what even that's the of cases it's like what even that's the of cases it's like what even that's the position you get in when you get to when position you get in when you get to when position you get in when you get to when you get so depressed and you get so low you get so depressed and you get so low you get so depressed and you get so low is like what's the point in even doing is like what's the point in even doing is like what's the point in even doing all this like it is it is just for all this like it is it is just for all this like it is it is just for anyone it's just so crazy overly anyone it's just so crazy overly anyone it's just so crazy overly complicated and exhausting to live isn't complicated and exhausting to live isn't complicated and exhausting to live isn't it like even in this modern society it like even in this modern society it like even in this modern society where we have all these wonderful little where we have all these wonderful little where we have all these wonderful little conveniences and we can just have food conveniences and we can just have food conveniences and we can just have food delivered right to our door if we want delivered right to our door if we want delivered right to our door if we want and all this kind of crap. It's like and all this kind of crap. It's like and all this kind of crap. It's like people are still like more depressed now people are still like more depressed now people are still like more depressed now than they've ever been. And like all the than they've ever been. And like all the than they've ever been. And like all the mental anxiety and all the mental health mental anxiety and all the mental health mental anxiety and all the mental health stuff is just probably just as prevalent stuff is just probably just as prevalent stuff is just probably just as prevalent as it's ever been. It's as it's ever been. It's as it's ever been. It's it's people talk about money not making it's people talk about money not making it's people talk about money not making you happy. And you know, it's like easy you happy. And you know, it's like easy you happy. And you know, it's like easy when you're it's easy when you're broke

when you're it's easy when you're broke when you're it's easy when you're broke to think, man, if I had some money, and to think, man, if I had some money, and to think, man, if I had some money, and of course, financial freedom is what of course, financial freedom is what of course, financial freedom is what you're really looking for, not like an you're really looking for, not like an you're really looking for, not like an abundance of wealth. But the things that abundance of wealth. But the things that abundance of wealth. But the things that we talk about that make life worth we talk about that make life worth we talk about that make life worth living aren't things that you can buy. living aren't things that you can buy. living aren't things that you can buy. They are things that you obtain through They are things that you obtain through They are things that you obtain through relationships and love and and life. And relationships and love and and life. And relationships and love and and life. And so it's a it is just an infinitely so it's a it is just an infinitely so it's a it is just an infinitely complex and crazy thing to think about, complex and crazy thing to think about, complex and crazy thing to think about, but it's like u that human component of but it's like u that human component of but it's like u that human component of us is what is what we is what's so us is what is what we is what's so us is what is what we is what's so important to our to our long-term important to our to our long-term important to our to our long-term existence. like our our ability to to existence. like our our ability to to existence. like our our ability to to have connection with each other and the have connection with each other and the have connection with each other and the joy we find in that, the purpose we find joy we find in that, the purpose we find joy we find in that, the purpose we find in that in that in that is it's not it's not anything that's is it's not it's not anything that's is it's not it's not anything that's replaceable by with anything, you know. replaceable by with anything, you know. replaceable by with anything, you know. Yeah, I've seen that with uh just seeing Yeah, I've seen that with uh just seeing Yeah, I've seen that with uh just seeing the effects of war on the people and the effects of war on the people and the effects of war on the people and basically war strips away everything. basically war strips away everything. basically war strips away everything. you lose your home, you you you lose you lose your home, you you you lose you lose your home, you you you lose everything and uh you get to see what's everything and uh you get to see what's everything and uh you get to see what's actually really important and that is actually really important and that is actually really important and that is the other people in your life uh the other people in your life uh the other people in your life uh friends, family. It's almost cliche to friends, family. It's almost cliche to friends, family. It's almost cliche to say, but it's say, but it's say, but it's uh it's the people you love in your life uh it's the people you love in your life uh it's the people you love in your life that make up the essence of what makes that make up the essence of what makes that make up the essence of what makes life worth living. It's not the homes, life worth living. It's not the homes, life worth living. It's not the homes, the material possessions, the even the the material possessions, the even the the material possessions, the even the job and whatever else. It's the the the job and whatever else. It's the the the job and whatever else. It's the the the humans. So, yeah. Yeah. It's important

humans. So, yeah. Yeah. It's important humans. So, yeah. Yeah. It's important to remember. A lot of us, especially in to remember. A lot of us, especially in to remember. A lot of us, especially in the United States under a capitalist the United States under a capitalist the United States under a capitalist system, are chasing money. system, are chasing money. system, are chasing money. Yeah. It's important like to remember Yeah. It's important like to remember Yeah. It's important like to remember what you're doing it all for. I got to what you're doing it all for. I got to what you're doing it all for. I got to talk to you about your um your writing talk to you about your um your writing talk to you about your um your writing process. You've written just uh a bunch process. You've written just uh a bunch process. You've written just uh a bunch of really of really of really incredible songs. You say you're not incredible songs. You say you're not incredible songs. You say you're not good at you're not a good musician, good at you're not a good musician, good at you're not a good musician, which is hilarious. Dude, I have no I which is hilarious. Dude, I have no I which is hilarious. Dude, I have no I have like zero self-confidence about any have like zero self-confidence about any have like zero self-confidence about any of I mean just about anything. But I ju of I mean just about anything. But I ju of I mean just about anything. But I ju when I say that I'm not being funny. when I say that I'm not being funny. when I say that I'm not being funny. Like I'm like you get nervous when you Like I'm like you get nervous when you Like I'm like you get nervous when you like get on stage. Oh yeah. like get on stage. Oh yeah. like get on stage. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like I can think about shows Yeah. Like I can think about shows Yeah. Like I can think about shows coming up and my hands will sweat coming up and my hands will sweat coming up and my hands will sweat thinking about them. Yeah. Hey, you told thinking about them. Yeah. Hey, you told thinking about them. Yeah. Hey, you told me that you like haven't really played me that you like haven't really played me that you like haven't really played the songs for like a couple months, like the songs for like a couple months, like the songs for like a couple months, like old songs since September. Yeah, since old songs since September. Yeah, since old songs since September. Yeah, since September. Well, dude, like think about September. Well, dude, like think about September. Well, dude, like think about how how how like you know I can't I'm not going to like you know I can't I'm not going to like you know I can't I'm not going to just sit around and play I've Got to get just sit around and play I've Got to get just sit around and play I've Got to get sober for fun like and like you know. So sober for fun like and like you know. So sober for fun like and like you know. So you feel you feel the songs when you you feel you feel the songs when you you feel you feel the songs when you play them. Yeah.

play them. Yeah. play them. Yeah. Yeah, man. That's rough. That's that's Yeah, man. That's rough. That's that's Yeah, man. That's rough. That's that's rough. A lot of musicians talk about rough. A lot of musicians talk about rough. A lot of musicians talk about that kind of thing though, right? Like that kind of thing though, right? Like that kind of thing though, right? Like about this. I don't know. I've heard about this. I don't know. I've heard about this. I don't know. I've heard about that with people like about hating about that with people like about hating about that with people like about hating to play songs because of the that side to play songs because of the that side to play songs because of the that side of it. But Oh, yeah. I've um I've become of it. But Oh, yeah. I've um I've become of it. But Oh, yeah. I've um I've become close friends with Dan Reynolds who's uh close friends with Dan Reynolds who's uh close friends with Dan Reynolds who's uh the lead singer for Imagine Dragons. the lead singer for Imagine Dragons. the lead singer for Imagine Dragons. Yeah. And he says every time he performs Yeah. And he says every time he performs Yeah. And he says every time he performs a song, I mean he has songs that have a song, I mean he has songs that have a song, I mean he has songs that have depression in them and all that kind of depression in them and all that kind of depression in them and all that kind of stuff. And he says like the only real stuff. And he says like the only real stuff. And he says like the only real way to do it is to feel it. You you have way to do it is to feel it. You you have way to do it is to feel it. You you have to you can't just fake it. you have to to you can't just fake it. you have to to you can't just fake it. you have to like be in it. You have to like really like be in it. You have to like really like be in it. You have to like really feel the song as if you're singing it as feel the song as if you're singing it as feel the song as if you're singing it as if you're writing it for the first time. if you're writing it for the first time. if you're writing it for the first time. So, as a performer that that he says So, as a performer that that he says So, as a performer that that he says that that's his duty he has to to the to that that's his duty he has to to the to that that's his duty he has to to the to the audience. But then that takes a the audience. But then that takes a the audience. But then that takes a toll. That's not easy to do that uh toll. That's not easy to do that uh toll. That's not easy to do that uh especially with the songs that you especially with the songs that you especially with the songs that you write. I mean there's a lot of darkness write. I mean there's a lot of darkness write. I mean there's a lot of darkness there in your songs. Yeah. And I do have there in your songs. Yeah. And I do have there in your songs. Yeah. And I do have some I do have some lighterhearted ones some I do have some lighterhearted ones some I do have some lighterhearted ones too that I that I'll you know I mean I too that I that I'll you know I mean I too that I that I'll you know I mean I the thing is is like I've only put out I the thing is is like I've only put out I the thing is is like I've only put out I I'm a little funny about like rel like I'm a little funny about like rel like I'm a little funny about like rel like God I don't know how many songs I have God I don't know how many songs I have God I don't know how many songs I have written that I will probably never do written that I will probably never do written that I will probably never do anything with. Like I mean probably at anything with. Like I mean probably at anything with. Like I mean probably at least 20 or 30 of them that are just least 20 or 30 of them that are just least 20 or 30 of them that are just like they're just not I just don't know like they're just not I just don't know like they're just not I just don't know why I don't want to put them out but why I don't want to put them out but why I don't want to put them out but just What does it look like? What do you just What does it look like? What do you just What does it look like? What do you have like a notebook with ideas or do have like a notebook with ideas or do have like a notebook with ideas or do you mean you have like little videos of you mean you have like little videos of you mean you have like little videos of halfbaked songs? Yeah, I've got my old

halfbaked songs? Yeah, I've got my old halfbaked songs? Yeah, I've got my old phone. Well, like even just that old phone. Well, like even just that old phone. Well, like even just that old phone that I recorded all the stuff for phone that I recorded all the stuff for phone that I recorded all the stuff for Tik Tok and all on it's got loads of Tik Tok and all on it's got loads of Tik Tok and all on it's got loads of like little just like the way that like little just like the way that like little just like the way that Richmond one was where it was like in Richmond one was where it was like in Richmond one was where it was like in the bathroom facing the and I had like the bathroom facing the and I had like the bathroom facing the and I had like that, you know, that's all that even that, you know, that's all that even that, you know, that's all that even that one I showed you on there. It had that one I showed you on there. It had that one I showed you on there. It had been sitting on my phone probably a been sitting on my phone probably a been sitting on my phone probably a couple months before it that's why I couple months before it that's why I couple months before it that's why I said I have too many unfinished songs. said I have too many unfinished songs. said I have too many unfinished songs. It's exactly what I meant. I've got all It's exactly what I meant. I've got all It's exactly what I meant. I've got all these little snippets of things like a these little snippets of things like a these little snippets of things like a little blip here or there. But the little blip here or there. But the little blip here or there. But the writing process is well it's a lot writing process is well it's a lot writing process is well it's a lot different than I thought most people different than I thought most people different than I thought most people write cuz like in write cuz like in write cuz like in the there's a lot of people that do the there's a lot of people that do the there's a lot of people that do these writing rooms and stuff and these writing rooms and stuff and these writing rooms and stuff and they'll have or you know these coowrites they'll have or you know these coowrites they'll have or you know these coowrites where they'll have people sit down and where they'll have people sit down and where they'll have people sit down and they like sit on the couch and smoke a they like sit on the couch and smoke a they like sit on the couch and smoke a joint and they're like all right let's joint and they're like all right let's joint and they're like all right let's write this song and they just like start write this song and they just like start write this song and they just like start plugging away and they to me that's like plugging away and they to me that's like plugging away and they to me that's like I can't do that. I have to I can't do that. I have to I can't do that. I have to just It's like almost the OP. It's like just It's like almost the OP. It's like just It's like almost the OP. It's like the A lot of times the songs come when the A lot of times the songs come when the A lot of times the songs come when I'm not prepared for them. You like to I'm not prepared for them. You like to I'm not prepared for them. You like to be alone. be alone. be alone. Well, alone in my head. I could be out Well, alone in my head. I could be out Well, alone in my head. I could be out in I could be anywhere in it, right? You in I could be anywhere in it, right? You in I could be anywhere in it, right? You know, some of them I'll just be in the know, some of them I'll just be in the know, some of them I'll just be in the shower and they'll just like and I'm shower and they'll just like and I'm shower and they'll just like and I'm like scram because the thing is is like like scram because the thing is is like like scram because the thing is is like h it's a certain part of your brain, I h it's a certain part of your brain, I h it's a certain part of your brain, I guess, that creates that stuff or picks guess, that creates that stuff or picks guess, that creates that stuff or picks it up or does whatever. Uh they come it up or does whatever. Uh they come it up or does whatever. Uh they come just they come and they go just as quick just they come and they go just as quick just they come and they go just as quick as they come. It's like when you wake as they come. It's like when you wake as they come. It's like when you wake up. It's ex it's exactly like when you up. It's ex it's exactly like when you up. It's ex it's exactly like when you wake up you've had this crazy vivid wake up you've had this crazy vivid wake up you've had this crazy vivid dream in your head and you wake up and dream in your head and you wake up and dream in your head and you wake up and it's all right there and then you stop it's all right there and then you stop it's all right there and then you stop thinking about it for like half a second thinking about it for like half a second thinking about it for like half a second and then it all goes away and you'll

and then it all goes away and you'll and then it all goes away and you'll never remember it again. You know like never remember it again. You know like never remember it again. You know like you can't remember your dreams like you can't remember your dreams like you can't remember your dreams like that. It's exactly like that. It's like that. It's exactly like that. It's like that. It's exactly like that. It's like it'll be there. It's like perfect. Like it'll be there. It's like perfect. Like it'll be there. It's like perfect. Like it's all right. It's like it's it's it's all right. It's like it's it's it's all right. It's like it's it's almost like given to you like just almost like given to you like just almost like given to you like just perfect like parts of it or the whole perfect like parts of it or the whole perfect like parts of it or the whole thing or whatever. And then you get into thing or whatever. And then you get into thing or whatever. And then you get into this flow state to where you just like this flow state to where you just like this flow state to where you just like it's all there in front of you and you it's all there in front of you and you it's all there in front of you and you just figure it all out. It's like you've just figure it all out. It's like you've just figure it all out. It's like you've it's like somehow you've like unlocked it's like somehow you've like unlocked it's like somehow you've like unlocked this little part of your brain that you this little part of your brain that you this little part of your brain that you don't even really know how to get to, don't even really know how to get to, don't even really know how to get to, but you just get to and it's all there but you just get to and it's all there but you just get to and it's all there and you figure it out. But man, if you and you figure it out. But man, if you and you figure it out. But man, if you don't get it, it's gone. Like you'll don't get it, it's gone. Like you'll don't get it, it's gone. Like you'll never you'll never get it again. Like never you'll never get it again. Like never you'll never get it again. Like you'll never even be able to replicate you'll never even be able to replicate you'll never even be able to replicate that song ever again. It's like it'll that song ever again. It's like it'll that song ever again. It's like it'll just go away. And typically it's like just go away. And typically it's like just go away. And typically it's like it's only maybe the first half of the it's only maybe the first half of the it's only maybe the first half of the first verse is what I'll get or it'll be first verse is what I'll get or it'll be first verse is what I'll get or it'll be like the chorus line I'll get and then like the chorus line I'll get and then like the chorus line I'll get and then I'll build the rest of the song around I'll build the rest of the song around I'll build the rest of the song around that if that makes sense. I guess well that if that makes sense. I guess well that if that makes sense. I guess well the words or the music or the melody the words or the music or the melody the words or the music or the melody like what what pops into your head? the like what what pops into your head? the like what what pops into your head? the the emotion I guess the words sometimes the emotion I guess the words sometimes the emotion I guess the words sometimes it's a phrase like it's a phrase like it's a phrase like um like one thing I will do is like um like one thing I will do is like um like one thing I will do is like especially out in the country people say especially out in the country people say especially out in the country people say the the the craziest people say the craziest things craziest people say the craziest things craziest people say the craziest things and so sometimes I'll like jot down a and so sometimes I'll like jot down a and so sometimes I'll like jot down a little bit of some like I will sometimes little bit of some like I will sometimes little bit of some like I will sometimes on my phone take a little note if on my phone take a little note if on my phone take a little note if somebody says something real crazy that somebody says something real crazy that somebody says something real crazy that I've never heard before and then maybe I've never heard before and then maybe I've never heard before and then maybe one day it'll just pop in my head like one day it'll just pop in my head like one day it'll just pop in my head like oh you know I don't know it's very oh you know I don't know it's very oh you know I don't know it's very random though like I don't sit and just random though like I don't sit and just random though like I don't sit and just try to write songs that's why I haven't try to write songs that's why I haven't try to write songs that's why I haven't put out put out put out That's why I haven't just been dumping That's why I haven't just been dumping That's why I haven't just been dumping out. Even though I have been writing a out. Even though I have been writing a out. Even though I have been writing a lot of songs, I haven't just been like lot of songs, I haven't just been like lot of songs, I haven't just been like dumping out all this crazy music. I dumping out all this crazy music. I dumping out all this crazy music. I don't want to force it. I don't want to don't want to force it. I don't want to don't want to force it. I don't want to do truck beer girl songs or like, you do truck beer girl songs or like, you do truck beer girl songs or like, you know, I don't want to force song. I know, I don't want to force song. I know, I don't want to force song. I don't want to like Do you have any truck

don't want to like Do you have any truck don't want to like Do you have any truck beer girl songs? Cuz that that would be beer girl songs? Cuz that that would be beer girl songs? Cuz that that would be an interesting Yeah. I've got the silly an interesting Yeah. I've got the silly an interesting Yeah. I've got the silly one about this guy in West Virginia that one about this guy in West Virginia that one about this guy in West Virginia that um he's like the most he's the most um he's like the most he's the most um he's like the most he's the most laid-back cuz I always get in my head laid-back cuz I always get in my head laid-back cuz I always get in my head and go over analytical about stuff and and go over analytical about stuff and and go over analytical about stuff and get real serious sometimes about things get real serious sometimes about things get real serious sometimes about things and he's like buddy you just got to take and he's like buddy you just got to take and he's like buddy you just got to take a drag off this thing and he'll you know a drag off this thing and he'll you know a drag off this thing and he'll you know he was the one he'd always like like he was the one he'd always like like he was the one he'd always like like peer pressure me into taking a hit off a peer pressure me into taking a hit off a peer pressure me into taking a hit off a joint or something and like just try to joint or something and like just try to joint or something and like just try to cheer and he just didn't take life so cheer and he just didn't take life so cheer and he just didn't take life so seriously. So I've written this song seriously. So I've written this song seriously. So I've written this song about it's called Dr. Dan and it's about it's called Dr. Dan and it's about it's called Dr. Dan and it's about, you know, he's a doctor, but he's about, you know, he's a doctor, but he's about, you know, he's a doctor, but he's not like a convent he's not like a not like a convent he's not like a not like a convent he's not like a conventional doctor. That's a silly one conventional doctor. That's a silly one conventional doctor. That's a silly one that I'll put out. So, I do have some that I'll put out. So, I do have some that I'll put out. So, I do have some silly ones like that. Um, I have a silly ones like that. Um, I have a silly ones like that. Um, I have a couple funny ones that I'll that I'll couple funny ones that I'll that I'll couple funny ones that I'll that I'll never ever ever probably play to the never ever ever probably play to the never ever ever probably play to the public, but I did I played him at the public, but I did I played him at the public, but I did I played him at the mothership. Um, only because nobody has mothership. Um, only because nobody has mothership. Um, only because nobody has their phones in there. But uh when after their phones in there. But uh when after their phones in there. But uh when after right after we did Rogan, I had I got a right after we did Rogan, I had I got a right after we did Rogan, I had I got a chance I got somehow I got connected chance I got somehow I got connected chance I got somehow I got connected with Tom Sigura right after Rogan and we with Tom Sigura right after Rogan and we with Tom Sigura right after Rogan and we went over to the mothership and I got to went over to the mothership and I got to went over to the mothership and I got to meet him and I love Adam Mette, you meet him and I love Adam Mette, you meet him and I love Adam Mette, you know, he he was on the thing with Nor know, he he was on the thing with Nor know, he he was on the thing with Nor McDonald is how I got introduced to him, McDonald is how I got introduced to him, McDonald is how I got introduced to him, that show Norm McDonald had, but he's that show Norm McDonald had, but he's that show Norm McDonald had, but he's just he's an awesome dude. And so we we just he's an awesome dude. And so we we just he's an awesome dude. And so we we ended up at the Mothership. Uh I think ended up at the Mothership. Uh I think ended up at the Mothership. Uh I think it was the evening after the Rogan it was the evening after the Rogan it was the evening after the Rogan podcast and um Tom's like, "Well, podcast and um Tom's like, "Well, podcast and um Tom's like, "Well, they've never had they've never had live they've never had they've never had live they've never had they've never had live music in here." He's like, "You could be music in here." He's like, "You could be music in here." He's like, "You could be the first one." And I was like, the first one." And I was like, the first one." And I was like, "Whatever." And so, uh, we only had one "Whatever." And so, uh, we only had one "Whatever." And so, uh, we only had one guitar and I had my guitarist, Joey, guitar and I had my guitarist, Joey, guitar and I had my guitarist, Joey, with me. So, Ron White was there. It was with me. So, Ron White was there. It was with me. So, Ron White was there. It was Tom Sigura and then Ron White that

Tom Sigura and then Ron White that Tom Sigura and then Ron White that night. And Ron took Joey in his car, night. And Ron took Joey in his car, night. And Ron took Joey in his car, drove him across town to his uh to his drove him across town to his uh to his drove him across town to his uh to his house and grabbed another guitar and house and grabbed another guitar and house and grabbed another guitar and came back. and we got up there and we came back. and we got up there and we came back. and we got up there and we did like two really silly songs and then did like two really silly songs and then did like two really silly songs and then Richmond in between um in between Tom Richmond in between um in between Tom Richmond in between um in between Tom set and Ron set and I was like again set and Ron set and I was like again set and Ron set and I was like again that was one of those moments in my life that was one of those moments in my life that was one of those moments in my life I was like what like what what is this I was like what like what what is this I was like what like what what is this like what is this crazy reality I'm in like what is this crazy reality I'm in like what is this crazy reality I'm in but I do have some funny I used to cuz a but I do have some funny I used to cuz a but I do have some funny I used to cuz a lot of when I wasn't playing the open lot of when I wasn't playing the open lot of when I wasn't playing the open mics you know the well like you know mics you know the well like you know mics you know the well like you know Brian that you met a lot of my guitar Brian that you met a lot of my guitar Brian that you met a lot of my guitar playing was spent at places like his playing was spent at places like his playing was spent at places like his house and we were all heavy drinkers and house and we were all heavy drinkers and house and we were all heavy drinkers and we were just sitting around at a party we were just sitting around at a party we were just sitting around at a party playing or whatever you And so I playing or whatever you And so I playing or whatever you And so I definitely like the silly stuff too. But definitely like the silly stuff too. But definitely like the silly stuff too. But I was really in my head when we were I was really in my head when we were I was really in my head when we were talking about being low and what I would talking about being low and what I would talking about being low and what I would suggest people to do if they're in that suggest people to do if they're in that suggest people to do if they're in that point. But if I was just to like not to point. But if I was just to like not to point. But if I was just to like not to flip this, but just it just popped in my flip this, but just it just popped in my flip this, but just it just popped in my head. But probably what I would tell head. But probably what I would tell head. But probably what I would tell anybody to do if they're like suicidal anybody to do if they're like suicidal anybody to do if they're like suicidal and thinking about like if they're to and thinking about like if they're to and thinking about like if they're to that point is just to go find some go that point is just to go find some go that point is just to go find some go find somewhere else like in nature and find somewhere else like in nature and find somewhere else like in nature and go Yeah. That's what you know that's I go Yeah. That's what you know that's I go Yeah. That's what you know that's I kind of missed this step when we were kind of missed this step when we were kind of missed this step when we were talking about things but like selling my talking about things but like selling my talking about things but like selling my house and buying that property and house and buying that property and house and buying that property and putting a camper on it and trying to go putting a camper on it and trying to go putting a camper on it and trying to go into this whole off-grid thing really into this whole off-grid thing really into this whole off-grid thing really like I don't know it it does a lot of like I don't know it it does a lot of like I don't know it it does a lot of good for you being reconnected to nature good for you being reconnected to nature good for you being reconnected to nature cuz we are a part of it but Oh yeah cuz we are a part of it but Oh yeah cuz we are a part of it but Oh yeah that's I've been to the jung I went to that's I've been to the jung I went to that's I've been to the jung I went to the jungle for that reason. Yeah. Being the jungle for that reason. Yeah. Being the jungle for that reason. Yeah. Being out in nature in every way is just is out in nature in every way is just is out in nature in every way is just is beautiful. I saw you got some maybe beautiful. I saw you got some maybe beautiful. I saw you got some maybe maybe that's what I need to do is get

maybe that's what I need to do is get maybe that's what I need to do is get some goats. You I saw I got two I can some goats. You I saw I got two I can some goats. You I saw I got two I can give you. Get I have more questions. Why give you. Get I have more questions. Why give you. Get I have more questions. Why are you giving them so easily? Are there are you giving them so easily? Are there are you giving them so easily? Are there are there issues I need to know about? are there issues I need to know about? are there issues I need to know about? Well, they're goats. Yeah. There's no Well, they're goats. Yeah. There's no Well, they're goats. Yeah. There's no there's no free lunch, man. What how there's no free lunch, man. What how there's no free lunch, man. What how many You got goats. You got You got all many You got goats. You got You got all many You got goats. You got You got all kinds of animals. What's the So, what's kinds of animals. What's the So, what's kinds of animals. What's the So, what's the story of you out in the woods? What the story of you out in the woods? What the story of you out in the woods? What are you doing out there? Uh, no com. No, are you doing out there? Uh, no com. No, are you doing out there? Uh, no com. No, I'm just kidding. Just trying to escape I'm just kidding. Just trying to escape I'm just kidding. Just trying to escape this dystopian nightmare that we're all this dystopian nightmare that we're all this dystopian nightmare that we're all living under. Like, yeah, just it was living under. Like, yeah, just it was living under. Like, yeah, just it was just a form of escapism, I guess. But, just a form of escapism, I guess. But, just a form of escapism, I guess. But, you know, my well, you got to think in you know, my well, you got to think in you know, my well, you got to think in such a short period of time. My such a short period of time. My such a short period of time. My grandfather grew up like, you know, they grandfather grew up like, you know, they grandfather grew up like, you know, they were in a survivalist state, like trying were in a survivalist state, like trying were in a survivalist state, like trying to make enough money to pay the tax on to make enough money to pay the tax on to make enough money to pay the tax on their land, growing tobacco, and then their land, growing tobacco, and then their land, growing tobacco, and then here I am like in this digital world two here I am like in this digital world two here I am like in this digital world two generations later. And I'm just like generations later. And I'm just like generations later. And I'm just like something's not, you know, I just something's not, you know, I just something's not, you know, I just felt just felt called to try to figure felt just felt called to try to figure felt just felt called to try to figure out figure all that out and how to get out figure all that out and how to get out figure all that out and how to get back into that. There's just a there's back into that. There's just a there's back into that. There's just a there's such a purity to man if you raise an such a purity to man if you raise an such a purity to man if you raise an animal and kill it and eat it like and animal and kill it and eat it like and animal and kill it and eat it like and I'm not talking about like like Ted Nan I'm not talking about like like Ted Nan I'm not talking about like like Ted Nan style, but just like you know raising style, but just like you know raising style, but just like you know raising meat birds and pigs and stuff and being meat birds and pigs and stuff and being meat birds and pigs and stuff and being having the ability to put those in the having the ability to put those in the having the ability to put those in the freezer and cook them for dinner like oh freezer and cook them for dinner like oh freezer and cook them for dinner like oh yeah they taste so much better. But it's yeah they taste so much better. But it's yeah they taste so much better. But it's just it feel it's just I don't know how just it feel it's just I don't know how just it feel it's just I don't know how to describe it but it just brings me to describe it but it just brings me to describe it but it just brings me joy. um being able to grow stuff and joy. um being able to grow stuff and joy. um being able to grow stuff and even just flowers and everything else.

even just flowers and everything else. even just flowers and everything else. Just watching stuff that's alive like Just watching stuff that's alive like Just watching stuff that's alive like that is just such a you know my what that is just such a you know my what that is just such a you know my what we're doing now is I've bought this we're doing now is I've bought this we're doing now is I've bought this permaculture farm that hadn't been permaculture farm that hadn't been permaculture farm that hadn't been operational in like six or seven years operational in like six or seven years operational in like six or seven years and um they did a lot of herbs. They had and um they did a lot of herbs. They had and um they did a lot of herbs. They had a big orchard, blueberries, you know, a big orchard, blueberries, you know, a big orchard, blueberries, you know, but um my dream there is to create this but um my dream there is to create this but um my dream there is to create this space that um that's like the optimal space that um that's like the optimal space that um that's like the optimal place for humans to go to fix their place for humans to go to fix their place for humans to go to fix their mind. So like like what's the animals mind. So like like what's the animals mind. So like like what's the animals and the food that I can have there and and the food that I can have there and and the food that I can have there and the trees that I can plant and the the trees that I can plant and the the trees that I can plant and the certain types of wildlife that I can certain types of wildlife that I can certain types of wildlife that I can bring in and attract like the noises and bring in and attract like the noises and bring in and attract like the noises and the sounds and the smells that are the sounds and the smells that are the sounds and the smells that are optimal for a human to be in in order to optimal for a human to be in in order to optimal for a human to be in in order to like fix whatever it is you know like um like fix whatever it is you know like um like fix whatever it is you know like um I had the opportunity to meet Robert I had the opportunity to meet Robert I had the opportunity to meet Robert Kennedy Jr. early on with all this and Kennedy Jr. early on with all this and Kennedy Jr. early on with all this and um you know he actually came out to my um you know he actually came out to my um you know he actually came out to my property and all we talked and we're property and all we talked and we're property and all we talked and we're still I think the idea is that we're still I think the idea is that we're still I think the idea is that we're going to launch this kind of like going to launch this kind of like going to launch this kind of like healing center thing out there um once healing center thing out there um once healing center thing out there um once he get once they get through all the he get once they get through all the he get once they get through all the mess that like they got their hands full mess that like they got their hands full mess that like they got their hands full a little bit right now with things but a little bit right now with things but a little bit right now with things but whether I go that route or not it's like whether I go that route or not it's like whether I go that route or not it's like that's my goal is to basically create a that's my goal is to basically create a that's my goal is to basically create a place that people can go and like and place that people can go and like and place that people can go and like and fix their mind and find the optimal fix their mind and find the optimal fix their mind and find the optimal thing you know we've got laying birds thing you know we've got laying birds thing you know we've got laying birds and meat birds so we have we get our and meat birds so we have we get our and meat birds so we have we get our eggs and meat and And then um we've done eggs and meat and And then um we've done eggs and meat and And then um we've done pigs and sheep and goats. And then I'm pigs and sheep and goats. And then I'm pigs and sheep and goats. And then I'm going to start with cat. I'm going to going to start with cat. I'm going to going to start with cat. I'm going to get cattle in the spring. Um so we'll get cattle in the spring. Um so we'll get cattle in the spring. Um so we'll start doing like wagoo and angus and start doing like wagoo and angus and start doing like wagoo and angus and playing around with and I want to get playing around with and I want to get playing around with and I want to get some funny stuff too like um I just some funny stuff too like um I just some funny stuff too like um I just large animals have a lot of you know large animals have a lot of you know large animals have a lot of you know there's all these like large animal there's all these like large animal there's all these like large animal therapies out there for mental health

therapies out there for mental health therapies out there for mental health like with vets and stuff. It's just like with vets and stuff. It's just like with vets and stuff. It's just something it's something really relaxing something it's something really relaxing something it's something really relaxing and rewarding about being in that space. and rewarding about being in that space. and rewarding about being in that space. What do you uh what do you find out What do you uh what do you find out What do you uh what do you find out there in nature that you can't find there in nature that you can't find there in nature that you can't find anywhere else? You can't find in the in anywhere else? You can't find in the in anywhere else? You can't find in the in the uh quote civilized world. Well, the uh quote civilized world. Well, the uh quote civilized world. Well, everything in civilization seems so like everything in civilization seems so like everything in civilization seems so like everything we've talked about it seems everything we've talked about it seems everything we've talked about it seems so so so like there's such a level of despair and like there's such a level of despair and like there's such a level of despair and unorganization and chaos and just like unorganization and chaos and just like unorganization and chaos and just like and all and all these like terrible and all and all these like terrible and all and all these like terrible parts of life that seem like so parts of life that seem like so parts of life that seem like so unstructured and just so uncertain. unstructured and just so uncertain. unstructured and just so uncertain. But in nature everything is certain. But in nature everything is certain. But in nature everything is certain. Everything has a system like even on the Everything has a system like even on the Everything has a system like even on the microbial level of soil there's this microbial level of soil there's this microbial level of soil there's this like intricate system and you know soil like intricate system and you know soil like intricate system and you know soil soil fixes like the bacteria fixes the soil fixes like the bacteria fixes the soil fixes like the bacteria fixes the soil and like and you can grow certain soil and like and you can grow certain soil and like and you can grow certain types of plants to restore certain types types of plants to restore certain types types of plants to restore certain types of nutrients and then that can grow of nutrients and then that can grow of nutrients and then that can grow certain types of trees and then that can certain types of trees and then that can certain types of trees and then that can bring in certain types of birds and it's bring in certain types of birds and it's bring in certain types of birds and it's like this whole big nature is just this like this whole big nature is just this like this whole big nature is just this whole big beautiful system you know like whole big beautiful system you know like whole big beautiful system you know like earth is just such an intricate complex earth is just such an intricate complex earth is just such an intricate complex system that is structured and although system that is structured and although system that is structured and although there is chaos us. There's literal there is chaos us. There's literal there is chaos us. There's literal tornadoes, you know, like the metaphor tornadoes, you know, like the metaphor tornadoes, you know, like the metaphor we were using earlier, like there are we were using earlier, like there are we were using earlier, like there are literal tornadoes in nature and other literal tornadoes in nature and other literal tornadoes in nature and other things, but there's there's a piece things, but there's there's a piece things, but there's there's a piece about observing the structure there. And about observing the structure there. And about observing the structure there. And to me, it like it just helps it helps to me, it like it just helps it helps to me, it like it just helps it helps remind and restore my faith that there remind and restore my faith that there remind and restore my faith that there is something bigger than me that like is something bigger than me that like is something bigger than me that like Yeah. And there's a spiritual side to it

Yeah. And there's a spiritual side to it Yeah. And there's a spiritual side to it that I don't know that I can really that I don't know that I can really that I don't know that I can really correctly articulate, but man, sitting correctly articulate, but man, sitting correctly articulate, but man, sitting out in the woods with some creek flowing out in the woods with some creek flowing out in the woods with some creek flowing by you and just sitting in stillness by you and just sitting in stillness by you and just sitting in stillness like where you you don't hear anything. like where you you don't hear anything. like where you you don't hear anything. There's no traffic from a road. There's There's no traffic from a road. There's There's no traffic from a road. There's no, you know, you're just you're just no, you know, you're just you're just no, you know, you're just you're just there in stillness and just watching there in stillness and just watching there in stillness and just watching watching the earth do its thing. Just watching the earth do its thing. Just watching the earth do its thing. Just I've gotten a chance to spend a day and I've gotten a chance to spend a day and I've gotten a chance to spend a day and a night alone in deep in the Amazon a night alone in deep in the Amazon a night alone in deep in the Amazon jungle. That's like my dream, man. God, jungle. That's like my dream, man. God, jungle. That's like my dream, man. God, you basically take the woods and the and you basically take the woods and the and you basically take the woods and the and the creek and the quiet. Let's put that the creek and the quiet. Let's put that the creek and the quiet. Let's put that like a three on a scale of 1 to 10. The like a three on a scale of 1 to 10. The like a three on a scale of 1 to 10. The Amazon jungle is like an 11 because Amazon jungle is like an 11 because Amazon jungle is like an 11 because you're not just listening to the creek. you're not just listening to the creek. you're not just listening to the creek. You're listening to like a lot of You're listening to like a lot of You're listening to like a lot of different species of animal having sex different species of animal having sex different species of animal having sex or or trying to kill each other and or or trying to kill each other and or or trying to kill each other and you're just like birds, monkeys, just you're just like birds, monkeys, just you're just like birds, monkeys, just everything. And the the the the floor everything. And the the the the floor everything. And the the the the floor full of insects. Yeah. bigger kinds of full of insects. Yeah. bigger kinds of full of insects. Yeah. bigger kinds of ants murdering smaller kinds of ants.

ants murdering smaller kinds of ants. ants murdering smaller kinds of ants. It's an orchestra of of insects, but It's an orchestra of of insects, but It's an orchestra of of insects, but there it's quiet in the sense that there it's quiet in the sense that there it's quiet in the sense that there's no machinery. The the really there's no machinery. The the really there's no machinery. The the really dark thing about the Amazon rainforest dark thing about the Amazon rainforest dark thing about the Amazon rainforest that sometimes depending on where you that sometimes depending on where you that sometimes depending on where you are, you'll sometimes hear in the are, you'll sometimes hear in the are, you'll sometimes hear in the distance the sound of a chainsaw. You'll distance the sound of a chainsaw. You'll distance the sound of a chainsaw. You'll hear like Yeah. It just and it pierces hear like Yeah. It just and it pierces hear like Yeah. It just and it pierces Yeah. the day because like there's just Yeah. the day because like there's just Yeah. the day because like there's just no machinery anywhere around. But once no machinery anywhere around. But once no machinery anywhere around. But once you hear it, it's in, you know, it is you hear it, it's in, you know, it is you hear it, it's in, you know, it is like this like this like this undeniable symbol of uh what human undeniable symbol of uh what human undeniable symbol of uh what human civilization does to nature. It pains me civilization does to nature. It pains me civilization does to nature. It pains me seeing woods getting knocked down and seeing woods getting knocked down and seeing woods getting knocked down and residential residential subdivisions residential residential subdivisions residential residential subdivisions taking their place. Like this like the taking their place. Like this like the taking their place. Like this like the monkey part of my brain wants to just go monkey part of my brain wants to just go monkey part of my brain wants to just go burn it all down. Like it's just like burn it all down. Like it's just like burn it all down. Like it's just like not good. Like I don't know. I just not good. Like I don't know. I just not good. Like I don't know. I just instinctually observe it as being not instinctually observe it as being not instinctually observe it as being not good. And I don't know exactly how to good. And I don't know exactly how to good. And I don't know exactly how to describe it, but I'm with you. Like I um describe it, but I'm with you. Like I um describe it, but I'm with you. Like I um that was like I said, that's why I felt that was like I said, that's why I felt that was like I said, that's why I felt so compelled. I mean, we had I had this so compelled. I mean, we had I had this so compelled. I mean, we had I had this little house that I had maybe a little little house that I had maybe a little little house that I had maybe a little bit of equity in and I it was in 2019 bit of equity in and I it was in 2019 bit of equity in and I it was in 2019 and the housing market was up and I was and the housing market was up and I was and the housing market was up and I was like I sold our little house and got like I sold our little house and got like I sold our little house and got that I was able to find 92 acres for that I was able to find 92 acres for that I was able to find 92 acres for like 1,100 an acre. And so I still had like 1,100 an acre. And so I still had like 1,100 an acre. And so I still had to finance it, but it was at least like to finance it, but it was at least like to finance it, but it was at least like within my barely within within my barely within within my barely within my and so that's what we did. We had a my and so that's what we did. We had a my and so that's what we did. We had a you know I was paying 600 a month on the you know I was paying 600 a month on the you know I was paying 600 a month on the land and I bought a little camper for land and I bought a little camper for land and I bought a little camper for for $750 off this hunt club in Waverly, for $750 off this hunt club in Waverly, for $750 off this hunt club in Waverly, Virginia and drug it up there and that's

Virginia and drug it up there and that's Virginia and drug it up there and that's that's what we had and that's what we had and that's what we had and like went and bought a little I got a like went and bought a little I got a like went and bought a little I got a little K Cabota tractor for 0% financing little K Cabota tractor for 0% financing little K Cabota tractor for 0% financing and was like cutting like this property and was like cutting like this property and was like cutting like this property was a mile off the road so I had to cut was a mile off the road so I had to cut was a mile off the road so I had to cut basically like recut in old logging road basically like recut in old logging road basically like recut in old logging road and stuff and you want to talk about and stuff and you want to talk about and stuff and you want to talk about putting a strain on your marriage putting a strain on your marriage putting a strain on your marriage that'll do it buddy is selling your that'll do it buddy is selling your that'll do it buddy is selling your selling your modest little rancher and selling your modest little rancher and selling your modest little rancher and doing that. But man, I was that's when I doing that. But man, I was that's when I doing that. But man, I was that's when I really started to live. And I think really started to live. And I think really started to live. And I think probably my that was like the beginning probably my that was like the beginning probably my that was like the beginning point of the restoration of of of me, point of the restoration of of of me, point of the restoration of of of me, you know, and I feel bad that a lot of you know, and I feel bad that a lot of you know, and I feel bad that a lot of people just don't even know what that's people just don't even know what that's people just don't even know what that's like to be on a farm or be out in like to be on a farm or be out in like to be on a farm or be out in nature. And I can't imagine just living nature. And I can't imagine just living nature. And I can't imagine just living in a suburb or a city your whole life in a suburb or a city your whole life in a suburb or a city your whole life and never getting to experience that. and never getting to experience that. and never getting to experience that. You know, it's good that we have all You know, it's good that we have all You know, it's good that we have all this technology is great and like the this technology is great and like the this technology is great and like the the science and the innovation is the science and the innovation is the science and the innovation is important and even the fact that you can important and even the fact that you can important and even the fact that you can go on YouTube and look how look up how go on YouTube and look how look up how go on YouTube and look how look up how to do almost anything is important. It's to do almost anything is important. It's to do almost anything is important. It's just just just that there isn't a clear definitive line that there isn't a clear definitive line that there isn't a clear definitive line between what's beneficial and between what's beneficial and between what's beneficial and educational and what's predatory and educational and what's predatory and educational and what's predatory and harmful. And so it's like it happens to harmful. And so it's like it happens to harmful. And so it's like it happens to me all the time, but I could go on me all the time, but I could go on me all the time, but I could go on YouTube and look up how to change the YouTube and look up how to change the YouTube and look up how to change the brake shoes on my truck or something and brake shoes on my truck or something and brake shoes on my truck or something and if I click on a short of somebody doing if I click on a short of somebody doing if I click on a short of somebody doing it, I automatically like I automatically it, I automatically like I automatically it, I automatically like I automatically go to the next video and I may be three go to the next video and I may be three go to the next video and I may be three or four videos deep before I catch I'm or four videos deep before I catch I'm or four videos deep before I catch I'm watching like you know some lady throw a watching like you know some lady throw a watching like you know some lady throw a pie at somebody and then pretty soon I'm pie at somebody and then pretty soon I'm pie at somebody and then pretty soon I'm like wait I'm changing my break. That's like wait I'm changing my break. That's like wait I'm changing my break. That's the only issue that I have. You're just the only issue that I have. You're just the only issue that I have. You're just doom scrolling and it doom scrolling and it doom scrolling and it it it does something to your mind. And it it does something to your mind. And it it does something to your mind. And it just completely takes the humanity

it just completely takes the humanity it just completely takes the humanity away. Yeah. It's it's it's it's really away. Yeah. It's it's it's it's really away. Yeah. It's it's it's it's really horrible. Like that dopamine thing does horrible. Like that dopamine thing does horrible. Like that dopamine thing does something to my mind that I hate which something to my mind that I hate which something to my mind that I hate which really is the opposite of nature. Like really is the opposite of nature. Like really is the opposite of nature. Like the feeling I remember being out in the feeling I remember being out in the feeling I remember being out in nature and not just a hike. A hike is nature and not just a hike. A hike is nature and not just a hike. A hike is good, but like for prolonged periods of good, but like for prolonged periods of good, but like for prolonged periods of time, several days away from the time, several days away from the time, several days away from the internet, away from all that. What is internet, away from all that. What is internet, away from all that. What is that? I don't know what that is. But I that? I don't know what that is. But I that? I don't know what that is. But I don't like don't like don't like what ex Twitter are doing. I don't like what ex Twitter are doing. I don't like what ex Twitter are doing. I don't like what Instagram is doing. Whatever that what Instagram is doing. Whatever that what Instagram is doing. Whatever that is, I don't think that's good for the is, I don't think that's good for the is, I don't think that's good for the soul. Yeah, it's emulating things that soul. Yeah, it's emulating things that soul. Yeah, it's emulating things that we need to be healthy humans, but it's we need to be healthy humans, but it's we need to be healthy humans, but it's just like feeding it visually and and just like feeding it visually and and just like feeding it visually and and audibly to us, but it's not giving us audibly to us, but it's not giving us audibly to us, but it's not giving us the it's giving us the instant the it's giving us the instant the it's giving us the instant gratification of it, but it's not giving gratification of it, but it's not giving gratification of it, but it's not giving us the long-term pleasure or fulfillment us the long-term pleasure or fulfillment us the long-term pleasure or fulfillment of it. Like I said, like, and the beauty of it. Like I said, like, and the beauty of it. Like I said, like, and the beauty is we're in this weird period in time. is we're in this weird period in time. is we're in this weird period in time. like it's a breath of time that we're in like it's a breath of time that we're in like it's a breath of time that we're in where where we are able to conceptualize where where we are able to conceptualize where where we are able to conceptualize and observe what life was like in that and observe what life was like in that and observe what life was like in that transition point that's got us up till transition point that's got us up till transition point that's got us up till now and we also have the because in now and we also have the because in now and we also have the because in order for all this to to continue to order for all this to to continue to order for all this to to continue to evolve like in or like even with AI like evolve like in or like even with AI like evolve like in or like even with AI like it needs us more than we need it right it needs us more than we need it right it needs us more than we need it right now still for a very short period of now still for a very short period of now still for a very short period of time but we have access to nearly all time but we have access to nearly all time but we have access to nearly all the information that the world has the information that the world has the information that the world has theoretically but we also still have the theoretically but we also still have the theoretically but we also still have the perception and the the memory of what perception and the the memory of what perception and the the memory of what life was like before it. And so this is life was like before it. And so this is life was like before it. And so this is like a very short window of time, like a

like a very short window of time, like a like a very short window of time, like a breath of time where I breath of time where I breath of time where I think we can find a way to like think we can find a way to like think we can find a way to like incorporate this into normal life. But I incorporate this into normal life. But I incorporate this into normal life. But I think like if that breath leaves us like think like if that breath leaves us like think like if that breath leaves us like I don't know I think it's irrever you I don't know I think it's irrever you I don't know I think it's irrever you know I believe that I truly believe it know I believe that I truly believe it know I believe that I truly believe it is irreversible and I think like and is irreversible and I think like and is irreversible and I think like and that's just going to be the end of us that's just going to be the end of us that's just going to be the end of us and and it and it could take two or and and it and it could take two or and and it and it could take two or three more generations to get to that three more generations to get to that three more generations to get to that point. But like I I think like why don't point. But like I I think like why don't point. But like I I think like why don't we find people that are way smarter than we find people that are way smarter than we find people that are way smarter than me and and look at all the things that me and and look at all the things that me and and look at all the things that trend on social media like the videos trend on social media like the videos trend on social media like the videos that everybody watches. Like I don't that everybody watches. Like I don't that everybody watches. Like I don't know what it is. If it's woodsplitting know what it is. If it's woodsplitting know what it is. If it's woodsplitting and plumbing and blacksmithing and doing and plumbing and blacksmithing and doing and plumbing and blacksmithing and doing something with like let's find all the something with like let's find all the something with like let's find all the things that people are attracted to things that people are attracted to things that people are attracted to online that they obviously are like online that they obviously are like online that they obviously are like interested in and just figure out a way interested in and just figure out a way interested in and just figure out a way to have them in real life for people to to have them in real life for people to to have them in real life for people to immerse themselves in. Yeah. I mean it's immerse themselves in. Yeah. I mean it's immerse themselves in. Yeah. I mean it's a transitionary state and I one of one a transitionary state and I one of one a transitionary state and I one of one of the responsibilities I take very of the responsibilities I take very of the responsibilities I take very seriously cuz I agree with you is I seriously cuz I agree with you is I seriously cuz I agree with you is I tried to pierce the bubble that is San tried to pierce the bubble that is San tried to pierce the bubble that is San Francisco that is the Silicon Valley Francisco that is the Silicon Valley Francisco that is the Silicon Valley that is the people that build these that is the people that build these that is the people that build these technologies they they often live a bit technologies they they often live a bit technologies they they often live a bit in a bubble. Yeah. That said the people in a bubble. Yeah. That said the people in a bubble. Yeah. That said the people that criticize tech folks also live in a that criticize tech folks also live in a that criticize tech folks also live in a bubble. Yeah. and to sort of first of bubble. Yeah. and to sort of first of bubble. Yeah. and to sort of first of all piercing bubbles in general is good all piercing bubbles in general is good all piercing bubbles in general is good for people to to get along to understand for people to to get along to understand for people to to get along to understand each other because uh people that say each other because uh people that say each other because uh people that say all technology is evil unfortunately all technology is evil unfortunately all technology is evil unfortunately techn even if that's true which I don't techn even if that's true which I don't techn even if that's true which I don't think it is uh you it's coming uh it's think it is uh you it's coming uh it's think it is uh you it's coming uh it's going to be built and so you have to going to be built and so you have to going to be built and so you have to figure out how to do it in a way that figure out how to do it in a way that figure out how to do it in a way that preserves our humanity that that doesn't

preserves our humanity that that doesn't preserves our humanity that that doesn't drag us into this black hole of like drag us into this black hole of like drag us into this black hole of like just maximizing engagement maximizing just maximizing engagement maximizing just maximizing engagement maximizing this dopamine thing where where instead this dopamine thing where where instead this dopamine thing where where instead of reading Dusty, which I should be of reading Dusty, which I should be of reading Dusty, which I should be doing, I'm looking at some girl doing doing, I'm looking at some girl doing doing, I'm looking at some girl doing shaking her ass on Instagram and then shaking her ass on Instagram and then shaking her ass on Instagram and then feeling horrible about myself 5 minutes feeling horrible about myself 5 minutes feeling horrible about myself 5 minutes later. Uh that at scale is what seems to later. Uh that at scale is what seems to later. Uh that at scale is what seems to be happening. And so like reminding be happening. And so like reminding be happening. And so like reminding ourselves that this is not the way to ourselves that this is not the way to ourselves that this is not the way to steer human civilization to progress to steer human civilization to progress to steer human civilization to progress to flourishing. The problem is is I think flourishing. The problem is is I think flourishing. The problem is is I think we're wasting a lot of our our we're wasting a lot of our our we're wasting a lot of our our bandwidth. like a lot of the like we bandwidth. like a lot of the like we bandwidth. like a lot of the like we only have so many minutes in the day to only have so many minutes in the day to only have so many minutes in the day to even use our brains and our brains can even use our brains and our brains can even use our brains and our brains can only do but so much in a day anyway and only do but so much in a day anyway and only do but so much in a day anyway and when we're wasting any of it on just when we're wasting any of it on just when we're wasting any of it on just that it's like the pro it's like I I see that it's like the pro it's like I I see that it's like the pro it's like I I see it in my own professional opinion as the it in my own professional opinion as the it in my own professional opinion as the world is becoming just a little more in world is becoming just a little more in world is becoming just a little more in the last decade or two as the world the last decade or two as the world the last decade or two as the world becomes a little more dreary and dark becomes a little more dreary and dark becomes a little more dreary and dark and more problems happen and city and more problems happen and city and more problems happen and city streets become more littered and jobs streets become more littered and jobs streets become more littered and jobs are like all these kind of problems that are like all these kind of problems that are like all these kind of problems that we that we all argue about all the time we that we all argue about all the time we that we all argue about all the time as they become more prevalent. It's like as they become more prevalent. It's like as they become more prevalent. It's like the internet and and just the visuals of the internet and and just the visuals of the internet and and just the visuals of the internet become so much more the internet become so much more the internet become so much more immersive and video games are so much immersive and video games are so much immersive and video games are so much more everything's so much better here.

more everything's so much better here. more everything's so much better here. Everything's improving at lightning Everything's improving at lightning Everything's improving at lightning speed in technology and it's degrading speed in technology and it's degrading speed in technology and it's degrading in society and in the real world and in society and in the real world and in society and in the real world and somehow there's got to there's got to be somehow there's got to there's got to be somehow there's got to there's got to be a way to find a balance there. But right a way to find a balance there. But right a way to find a balance there. But right now it seems like as technology becomes now it seems like as technology becomes now it seems like as technology becomes more immersive and addictive and and more immersive and addictive and and more immersive and addictive and and interactive, you know, like the way interactive, you know, like the way interactive, you know, like the way these algorithms like feed us exactly these algorithms like feed us exactly these algorithms like feed us exactly what we want and there's so much what we want and there's so much what we want and there's so much psychology and just so much research psychology and just so much research psychology and just so much research that goes into making them as addictive that goes into making them as addictive that goes into making them as addictive as possible. It's like the real world as possible. It's like the real world as possible. It's like the real world kind of sucks. Like you know, cities kind of sucks. Like you know, cities kind of sucks. Like you know, cities that were beautiful and thriving are now that were beautiful and thriving are now that were beautiful and thriving are now falling apart like and and and have all falling apart like and and and have all falling apart like and and and have all kinds of problems that are being kinds of problems that are being kinds of problems that are being unressed and lack of leader. It's like unressed and lack of leader. It's like unressed and lack of leader. It's like there's got to be some kind of weight. there's got to be some kind of weight. there's got to be some kind of weight. But it's and so it's easy for us to feel But it's and so it's easy for us to feel But it's and so it's easy for us to feel more and more inclined to escape into more and more inclined to escape into more and more inclined to escape into the digital realm because the digital the digital realm because the digital the digital realm because the digital realm is becoming more fun while real realm is becoming more fun while real realm is becoming more fun while real life is becoming less fun. And there's life is becoming less fun. And there's life is becoming less fun. And there's got to be some kind of way to balance got to be some kind of way to balance got to be some kind of way to balance between the two. I'm with you. I'm not between the two. I'm with you. I'm not between the two. I'm with you. I'm not against technology at all. I think um against technology at all. I think um against technology at all. I think um evil most certainly existed long before evil most certainly existed long before evil most certainly existed long before there were computers like and and in there were computers like and and in there were computers like and and in even more treacherous ways like now we even more treacherous ways like now we even more treacherous ways like now we have the ability to do we're like I said have the ability to do we're like I said have the ability to do we're like I said we're in a very we're in a very we're in a very we're in a very we're in a very we're in a very temporary state right now in 2025 where temporary state right now in 2025 where temporary state right now in 2025 where we have access where the general public we have access where the general public we have access where the general public has access to basically all the has access to basically all the has access to basically all the information there is and artificial information there is and artificial information there is and artificial intelligence and just immense am and the intelligence and just immense am and the intelligence and just immense am and the ability that like a guy can just set a ability that like a guy can just set a ability that like a guy can just set a bunch of cameras up and start doing bunch of cameras up and start doing bunch of cameras up and start doing podcasts and have just the like even podcasts and have just the like even podcasts and have just the like even just the fact that this that platform just the fact that this that platform just the fact that this that platform could be created is like immensely could be created is like immensely could be created is like immensely powerful. It never probably never powerful. It never probably never powerful. It never probably never existed in world history up until now.

existed in world history up until now. existed in world history up until now. But we also still have the problem is is But we also still have the problem is is But we also still have the problem is is if we just keep going without being if we just keep going without being if we just keep going without being careful about about losing the real careful about about losing the real careful about about losing the real world aspect of it is that world aspect of it is that world aspect of it is that like at some point we're just going to like at some point we're just going to like at some point we're just going to get so lost and so immersed in the get so lost and so immersed in the get so lost and so immersed in the space. We're not even going to know what space. We're not even going to know what space. We're not even going to know what we're we're not even going to know what we're we're not even going to know what we're we're not even going to know what we're missing out on. You know, all we're missing out on. You know, all we're missing out on. You know, all there's going to be is girls on there's going to be is girls on there's going to be is girls on Instagram. Like all there's going to be Instagram. Like all there's going to be Instagram. Like all there's going to be is that. Yeah. I've been trying to is that. Yeah. I've been trying to is that. Yeah. I've been trying to figure it all out. I I just did a super figure it all out. I I just did a super figure it all out. I I just did a super long podcast with uh Tim Sweeney, the long podcast with uh Tim Sweeney, the long podcast with uh Tim Sweeney, the CEO of Epic Games, who created Fortnite. CEO of Epic Games, who created Fortnite. CEO of Epic Games, who created Fortnite. He created Unreal Engine. A lot of He created Unreal Engine. A lot of He created Unreal Engine. A lot of interesting video games, like interesting video games, like interesting video games, like revolutionary video games. So, I don't revolutionary video games. So, I don't revolutionary video games. So, I don't know if you know, but Fortnite is this know if you know, but Fortnite is this know if you know, but Fortnite is this gigantic video game where people go into gigantic video game where people go into gigantic video game where people go into a into an online world and they shoot a into an online world and they shoot a into an online world and they shoot stuff. It's fun. It's it's not like Call stuff. It's fun. It's it's not like Call stuff. It's fun. It's it's not like Call of Duty intense militaristic like raw of Duty intense militaristic like raw of Duty intense militaristic like raw real kind of shooting. It's more fun real kind of shooting. It's more fun real kind of shooting. It's more fun shooting at each other. But, you know, shooting at each other. But, you know, shooting at each other. But, you know, at first I was skeptical like, is that a at first I was skeptical like, is that a at first I was skeptical like, is that a good way to have to hang out with good way to have to hang out with good way to have to hang out with friends, but then I got to do it with friends, but then I got to do it with friends, but then I got to do it with people that I'm actually friends with in people that I'm actually friends with in people that I'm actually friends with in physical reality. Yeah. And you get to physical reality. Yeah. And you get to physical reality. Yeah. And you get to hear each other's voice and you just hear each other's voice and you just hear each other's voice and you just talk and talk shit about each other talk and talk shit about each other talk and talk shit about each other together. It's basically a phone call, together. It's basically a phone call, together. It's basically a phone call, honestly, with some visuals. You're not honestly, with some visuals. You're not honestly, with some visuals. You're not It's not about the visuals, it's about It's not about the visuals, it's about It's not about the visuals, it's about the phone call. And it just makes it a the phone call. And it just makes it a the phone call. And it just makes it a little more convenient to connect little more convenient to connect little more convenient to connect regularly. Yeah. But I think you do need regularly. Yeah. But I think you do need regularly. Yeah. But I think you do need to remember that all of that only works to remember that all of that only works to remember that all of that only works if you're consistently returning to if you're consistently returning to if you're consistently returning to physical reality, physical reality, physical reality, you know. Um, in this case, like taking

you know. Um, in this case, like taking you know. Um, in this case, like taking the quote unquote the quote unquote the quote unquote uh guy trip, not the Brokeback Mountain uh guy trip, not the Brokeback Mountain uh guy trip, not the Brokeback Mountain style, but just friends, you know, just style, but just friends, you know, just style, but just friends, you know, just friends, a trip out in nature together, friends, a trip out in nature together, friends, a trip out in nature together, like like dudes on a hunting trip or or like like dudes on a hunting trip or or like like dudes on a hunting trip or or just fishing or just hanging out in just fishing or just hanging out in just fishing or just hanging out in physical reality together. It's really a physical reality together. It's really a physical reality together. It's really a fun like we should not forget the fun like we should not forget the fun like we should not forget the importance of that. You talked earlier importance of that. You talked earlier importance of that. You talked earlier about loneliness. I think that got about loneliness. I think that got about loneliness. I think that got brought up at some point, but I do think brought up at some point, but I do think brought up at some point, but I do think that's like a big that's a problem that's like a big that's a problem that's like a big that's a problem that's caused a lot of our symptoms is that's caused a lot of our symptoms is that's caused a lot of our symptoms is that we are all like very lonely even that we are all like very lonely even that we are all like very lonely even though we are all we all seem to be so though we are all we all seem to be so though we are all we all seem to be so well connected digitally. We are all so well connected digitally. We are all so well connected digitally. We are all so lonely. You got to think I mean Modern lonely. You got to think I mean Modern lonely. You got to think I mean Modern Warfare 2 was a big thing. I was I was Warfare 2 was a big thing. I was I was Warfare 2 was a big thing. I was I was supposed to been in class of 2010. So supposed to been in class of 2010. So supposed to been in class of 2010. So you can think like when I was in you can think like when I was in you can think like when I was in whatever grade, eighth grade or whatever grade, eighth grade or whatever grade, eighth grade or whatever, Call of Duty was like the whatever, Call of Duty was like the whatever, Call of Duty was like the thing, you know? I I've certainly like thing, you know? I I've certainly like thing, you know? I I've certainly like trust me I'm not saying that I I'm right trust me I'm not saying that I I'm right trust me I'm not saying that I I'm right in this space of digital immersion with in this space of digital immersion with in this space of digital immersion with anybody else like I've I've I've been anybody else like I've I've I've been anybody else like I've I've I've been there and seen it and done you know like there and seen it and done you know like there and seen it and done you know like but I I've wasted who knows how many but I I've wasted who knows how many but I I've wasted who knows how many hundreds of hours on Modern Warfare 2 hundreds of hours on Modern Warfare 2 hundreds of hours on Modern Warfare 2 and like I really built some great and like I really built some great and like I really built some great friendships from it you know like I friendships from it you know like I friendships from it you know like I there's there's a place for all that there's there's a place for all that there's there's a place for all that stuff it's just stuff it's just stuff it's just like we ha like there is just this we like we ha like there is just this we like we ha like there is just this we have this innate responsibility to like have this innate responsibility to like have this innate responsibility to like to again it just goes back to this goes to again it just goes back to this goes to again it just goes back to this goes back to talking about our founding back to talking about our founding back to talking about our founding fathers and the way this country was fathers and the way this country was fathers and the way this country was created and the importance and the v created and the importance and the v created and the importance and the v like the importance of of what it did like the importance of of what it did like the importance of of what it did for the world. Um you know and my my for the world. Um you know and my my for the world. Um you know and my my understanding is that it was the first understanding is that it was the first understanding is that it was the first it was the first time ever that people

it was the first time ever that people it was the first time ever that people got together and agreed that like you got together and agreed that like you got together and agreed that like you said every man was equal because they said every man was equal because they said every man was equal because they were created in the image of God. They were created in the image of God. They were created in the image of God. They had unaliable rights that no government had unaliable rights that no government had unaliable rights that no government could take away from them. And that's could take away from them. And that's could take away from them. And that's really important like we there won't be really important like we there won't be really important like we there won't be Fortnite if we don't worry about that. Fortnite if we don't worry about that. Fortnite if we don't worry about that. And it and honestly like just the And it and honestly like just the And it and honestly like just the collapsing in our structure with the collapsing in our structure with the collapsing in our structure with the mental health with our youth and the mental health with our youth and the mental health with our youth and the suicide rates with our blueco collar suicide rates with our blueco collar suicide rates with our blueco collar workers and all these kind of things workers and all these kind of things workers and all these kind of things we've touched and talked about like th we've touched and talked about like th we've touched and talked about like th those are all just things we just need those are all just things we just need those are all just things we just need more time together in real life to fix more time together in real life to fix more time together in real life to fix those problems. Those are just things, those problems. Those are just things, those problems. Those are just things, like I said, I make the joke, but like like I said, I make the joke, but like like I said, I make the joke, but like like there's never been one argument like there's never been one argument like there's never been one argument that I've there's never been one dispute that I've there's never been one dispute that I've there's never been one dispute with my wife that I've been able to with my wife that I've been able to with my wife that I've been able to figure out how to fix through a text figure out how to fix through a text figure out how to fix through a text message or like it takes it takes being message or like it takes it takes being message or like it takes it takes being in person with people and and like in person with people and and like in person with people and and like having human connection to fix any having human connection to fix any having human connection to fix any problem and heal anything, you know? And problem and heal anything, you know? And problem and heal anything, you know? And so it's difficult. It's like I don't so it's difficult. It's like I don't so it's difficult. It's like I don't it's not anybody's fault that we're like it's not anybody's fault that we're like it's not anybody's fault that we're like that. We're not even able to really get that. We're not even able to really get that. We're not even able to really get to know each other and understand each to know each other and understand each to know each other and understand each other through the internet. like we other through the internet. like we other through the internet. like we almost have to be together in person to almost have to be together in person to almost have to be together in person to even just get each other's point of view even just get each other's point of view even just get each other's point of view and perspectives on things and you know and perspectives on things and you know and perspectives on things and you know yeah fuck the division that the internet yeah fuck the division that the internet yeah fuck the division that the internet creates honestly like the left and the creates honestly like the left and the creates honestly like the left and the right is is been it's been kind of a right is is been it's been kind of a right is is been it's been kind of a nightmare for me just to watch cuz I see nightmare for me just to watch cuz I see nightmare for me just to watch cuz I see the very simple reality that we're in it the very simple reality that we're in it the very simple reality that we're in it together and that there's a lot more together and that there's a lot more together and that there's a lot more commonality between people. It seems commonality between people. It seems commonality between people. It seems cliche to say, but it's like now that cliche to say, but it's like now that cliche to say, but it's like now that needs to be needs to be needs to be said more than ever because it when you said more than ever because it when you said more than ever because it when you look on X, it feels like everybody's look on X, it feels like everybody's look on X, it feels like everybody's divided, but we're not. Well, and people divided, but we're not. Well, and people divided, but we're not. Well, and people are always going to think differently, are always going to think differently, are always going to think differently, too. like just in our structure and the

too. like just in our structure and the too. like just in our structure and the way we you know again it's like that it way we you know again it's like that it way we you know again it's like that it goes back to that Jordan Peterson goes back to that Jordan Peterson goes back to that Jordan Peterson lecture about I think in maps of meaning lecture about I think in maps of meaning lecture about I think in maps of meaning where he talks about people who think where he talks about people who think where he talks about people who think more conservatively or more liberally more conservatively or more liberally more conservatively or more liberally about things like it's been applied to about things like it's been applied to about things like it's been applied to politics but it is more it's based more politics but it is more it's based more politics but it is more it's based more in psychology than anything like some in psychology than anything like some in psychology than anything like some people are going to have some people are people are going to have some people are people are going to have some people are going to think more inside the box and going to think more inside the box and going to think more inside the box and some people are going to think more some people are going to think more some people are going to think more outside the box but we have to have both outside the box but we have to have both outside the box but we have to have both in order to have a healthy society like in order to have a healthy society like in order to have a healthy society like oh and also the the thing that bothers oh and also the the thing that bothers oh and also the the thing that bothers me your song Richmond north of Richmond me your song Richmond north of Richmond me your song Richmond north of Richmond a lot of people so a pretty even split a lot of people so a pretty even split a lot of people so a pretty even split people on the left and the right in people on the left and the right in people on the left and the right in terms of uh friends of mine and sadly terms of uh friends of mine and sadly terms of uh friends of mine and sadly they've they've they've drifted to towards the extremes a bit drifted to towards the extremes a bit drifted to towards the extremes a bit uh those on the left definitely have uh those on the left definitely have uh those on the left definitely have developed a case of uh Trump derangement developed a case of uh Trump derangement developed a case of uh Trump derangement syndrome uh those on the right seem to syndrome uh those on the right seem to syndrome uh those on the right seem to think that every person on the left is a think that every person on the left is a think that every person on the left is a kind of radical leftist it's it's it's kind of radical leftist it's it's it's kind of radical leftist it's it's it's like hilarious to listen to to people like hilarious to listen to to people like hilarious to listen to to people talk. It's like everybody's lost their talk. It's like everybody's lost their talk. It's like everybody's lost their mind. It feels like, but also on top of mind. It feels like, but also on top of mind. It feels like, but also on top of that, people on the right see Trump as that, people on the right see Trump as that, people on the right see Trump as uh as this savior, as this figure who is uh as this savior, as this figure who is uh as this savior, as this figure who is who could do no wrong, who's going to who could do no wrong, who's going to who could do no wrong, who's going to restore freedom in America and all, you restore freedom in America and all, you restore freedom in America and all, you know, you can do a full list of really know, you can do a full list of really know, you can do a full list of really positive things. And to me, he's yet positive things. And to me, he's yet positive things. And to me, he's yet another rich man, north of Richmond, another rich man, north of Richmond, another rich man, north of Richmond, Biden, Trump, it's all the same thing.

Biden, Trump, it's all the same thing. Biden, Trump, it's all the same thing. Now, some might be able to do more good Now, some might be able to do more good Now, some might be able to do more good than others, but ultimately they're in than others, but ultimately they're in than others, but ultimately they're in positions of power, and power corrupts. positions of power, and power corrupts. positions of power, and power corrupts. And those in in those And those in in those And those in in those positions often forget about the positions often forget about the positions often forget about the everyday person, the working class, and everyday person, the working class, and everyday person, the working class, and they leave them behind ultimately uh they leave them behind ultimately uh they leave them behind ultimately uh serve the people that are close to them, serve the people that are close to them, serve the people that are close to them, and sometimes serve themselves to and sometimes serve themselves to and sometimes serve themselves to maintain power, to grow their power. I maintain power, to grow their power. I maintain power, to grow their power. I think the good thing you can say about think the good thing you can say about think the good thing you can say about them is they and I could say that about them is they and I could say that about them is they and I could say that about both Donald Trump and Joe Biden both Donald Trump and Joe Biden both Donald Trump and Joe Biden uh is that they really love their uh is that they really love their uh is that they really love their family. As I could say that one of the family. As I could say that one of the family. As I could say that one of the things that I love about both people is things that I love about both people is things that I love about both people is that they genuinely love their family. that they genuinely love their family. that they genuinely love their family. And like it was always heartwarming to And like it was always heartwarming to And like it was always heartwarming to me to see how much Joe Biden loves his me to see how much Joe Biden loves his me to see how much Joe Biden loves his family. Yeah. Like and and honestly like family. Yeah. Like and and honestly like family. Yeah. Like and and honestly like just do anything for his family. And just do anything for his family. And just do anything for his family. And this the same is true for Trump. And this the same is true for Trump. And this the same is true for Trump. And that just reminds you that they're human that just reminds you that they're human that just reminds you that they're human beings. And yeah, all that to say is beings. And yeah, all that to say is beings. And yeah, all that to say is like we need to see the humanity in each like we need to see the humanity in each like we need to see the humanity in each of of of us. Uh and to some degree always us. Uh and to some degree always us. Uh and to some degree always distrust the people in power. the power distrust the people in power. the power distrust the people in power. the power that people have only exists because we that people have only exists because we that people have only exists because we allow it, whether willingly or just allow it, whether willingly or just allow it, whether willingly or just through our own negligence. But I think through our own negligence. But I think through our own negligence. But I think that's the important thing is that's the important thing is that's the important thing is like, like I said, there's always more like, like I said, there's always more like, like I said, there's always more of us than there will be of them.

of us than there will be of them. of us than there will be of them. There's always more there's always more There's always more there's always more There's always more there's always more nobodies than there ever will be people nobodies than there ever will be people nobodies than there ever will be people at the top. We just have to figure out at the top. We just have to figure out at the top. We just have to figure out what to do with that and how to and I what to do with that and how to and I what to do with that and how to and I think this is, like I said, a short think this is, like I said, a short think this is, like I said, a short window of time to to where we can still window of time to to where we can still window of time to to where we can still figure that out. You know, I got to ask figure that out. You know, I got to ask figure that out. You know, I got to ask you about something before I forget. I you about something before I forget. I you about something before I forget. I think I saw on Instagram you talked think I saw on Instagram you talked think I saw on Instagram you talked about a three-legged cat. Is that a real about a three-legged cat. Is that a real about a three-legged cat. Is that a real thing? What's the story behind the thing? What's the story behind the thing? What's the story behind the three-legged cat? The reason I want to three-legged cat? The reason I want to three-legged cat? The reason I want to ask you that, first of all, I want to ask you that, first of all, I want to ask you that, first of all, I want to hear the story. And second of all, I hear the story. And second of all, I hear the story. And second of all, I want to read to you uh one of my want to read to you uh one of my want to read to you uh one of my favorite Bicoski poems afterwards. I favorite Bicoski poems afterwards. I favorite Bicoski poems afterwards. I bought another cat. All right. What's bought another cat. All right. What's bought another cat. All right. What's the story? I had this cat lady neighbor the story? I had this cat lady neighbor the story? I had this cat lady neighbor who's a real sweet lady, but who's a real sweet lady, but who's a real sweet lady, but um older lady lives in a trailer, single um older lady lives in a trailer, single um older lady lives in a trailer, single wide trailer, has probably got I don't wide trailer, has probably got I don't wide trailer, has probably got I don't know 30 or 40 cats that she feeds at her know 30 or 40 cats that she feeds at her know 30 or 40 cats that she feeds at her house. Nice. It was a rainy Saturday house. Nice. It was a rainy Saturday house. Nice. It was a rainy Saturday morning. It was pouring down rain. It morning. It was pouring down rain. It morning. It was pouring down rain. It was going to be like it was like 8:00 in was going to be like it was like 8:00 in was going to be like it was like 8:00 in the morning on Saturday. It was going to the morning on Saturday. It was going to the morning on Saturday. It was going to be a great day. I was going to And then be a great day. I was going to And then be a great day. I was going to And then I hear this lady yelling, "There's this I hear this lady yelling, "There's this I hear this lady yelling, "There's this cat stuck in my car." And she's all cat stuck in my car." And she's all cat stuck in my car." And she's all freaking out and don't know what to do.

freaking out and don't know what to do. freaking out and don't know what to do. And like I said, my wife's a veterary And like I said, my wife's a veterary And like I said, my wife's a veterary technician or whatever, so she's got a technician or whatever, so she's got a technician or whatever, so she's got a little bit more sense about animals than little bit more sense about animals than little bit more sense about animals than any of us. But we go over there and the any of us. But we go over there and the any of us. But we go over there and the lady's tried to start her car and lady's tried to start her car and lady's tried to start her car and there's this kitten that is was up under there's this kitten that is was up under there's this kitten that is was up under the hood and she started the car and the the hood and she started the car and the the hood and she started the car and the cat basically it ri it it basically cat basically it ri it it basically cat basically it ri it it basically almost ripped its whole front leg off almost ripped its whole front leg off almost ripped its whole front leg off already. There was just a little bit already. There was just a little bit already. There was just a little bit still attached like some tendon or still attached like some tendon or still attached like some tendon or whatever, but the the leg was like whatever, but the the leg was like whatever, but the the leg was like wrapped up under the water pump like the wrapped up under the water pump like the wrapped up under the water pump like the pulley of the water pump. Yeah. Knock pulley of the water pump. Yeah. Knock pulley of the water pump. Yeah. Knock the bell off. There was no way to get the bell off. There was no way to get the bell off. There was no way to get there was no way to save this leg on there was no way to save this leg on there was no way to save this leg on this cat. It was like and but the cat this cat. It was like and but the cat this cat. It was like and but the cat was like pinned upside down. And so we was like pinned upside down. And so we was like pinned upside down. And so we ended up grabbing a we asked the lady if ended up grabbing a we asked the lady if ended up grabbing a we asked the lady if she had like a knife in the house. So she had like a knife in the house. So she had like a knife in the house. So she gave us this like terrible looking she gave us this like terrible looking she gave us this like terrible looking knife, but it's all that we had, you knife, but it's all that we had, you knife, but it's all that we had, you know, I was like we were trying to get know, I was like we were trying to get know, I was like we were trying to get this done. So yeah, my wife was the one this done. So yeah, my wife was the one this done. So yeah, my wife was the one that did it, but we like got the rest of that did it, but we like got the rest of that did it, but we like got the rest of the stuff cut and got the cat out. And the stuff cut and got the cat out. And the stuff cut and got the cat out. And um and I don't know I just um and I don't know I just um and I don't know I just like to spend like however I was like like to spend like however I was like like to spend like however I was like over a grand we spent giving like over a grand we spent giving like over a grand we spent giving like getting this cat's like getting it getting this cat's like getting it getting this cat's like getting it properly sutured or whatever to where properly sutured or whatever to where properly sutured or whatever to where the cat could have a healthy recovery the cat could have a healthy recovery the cat could have a healthy recovery and all but I'm one of those type of and all but I'm one of those type of and all but I'm one of those type of people like I'm not going to I couldn't people like I'm not going to I couldn't people like I'm not going to I couldn't just let this little I'm not going to go just let this little I'm not going to go just let this little I'm not going to go they were going to just go put the cat they were going to just go put the cat they were going to just go put the cat down or whatever the lady you know. So down or whatever the lady you know. So down or whatever the lady you know. So yeah it's my I named her hop. So that's yeah it's my I named her hop. So that's yeah it's my I named her hop. So that's my little cat and it hops around and but my little cat and it hops around and but my little cat and it hops around and but it was one of those things where it was one of those things where it was one of those things where uh yeah I don't know I great example uh yeah I don't know I great example uh yeah I don't know I great example with animals. I guess it's the same way with animals. I guess it's the same way with animals. I guess it's the same way with people. I just always see the best with people. I just always see the best with people. I just always see the best and I just couldn't Yeah. I mean that's

and I just couldn't Yeah. I mean that's and I just couldn't Yeah. I mean that's one of the most amazing things about one of the most amazing things about one of the most amazing things about humans. It's it's humans. It's it's humans. It's it's irrational to spend that much money on irrational to spend that much money on irrational to spend that much money on this cat, right? Because there's so many this cat, right? Because there's so many this cat, right? Because there's so many other cats that are suffering and dying other cats that are suffering and dying other cats that are suffering and dying and so on. But that's what makes humans and so on. But that's what makes humans and so on. But that's what makes humans really special. We see that the the the really special. We see that the the the really special. We see that the the the the the person or the creature suffering the the person or the creature suffering the the person or the creature suffering in front of us and we're we're willing in front of us and we're we're willing in front of us and we're we're willing to move mountains to save that person. to move mountains to save that person. to move mountains to save that person. Like it's irrational. Maybe it doesn't Like it's irrational. Maybe it doesn't Like it's irrational. Maybe it doesn't make sense because the allocation of make sense because the allocation of make sense because the allocation of money and effort might not be correct, money and effort might not be correct, money and effort might not be correct, whatever. Uh we just don't give a shit. whatever. Uh we just don't give a shit. whatever. Uh we just don't give a shit. The reason that we're willing to do it The reason that we're willing to do it The reason that we're willing to do it for a cat, like I said, it's just like for a cat, like I said, it's just like for a cat, like I said, it's just like the thing with the dogs about giving the the thing with the dogs about giving the the thing with the dogs about giving the dogs your medication but not yourself. dogs your medication but not yourself. dogs your medication but not yourself. So we see all the flaws and all the So we see all the flaws and all the So we see all the flaws and all the problems and the all the disagreements problems and the all the disagreements problems and the all the disagreements and all the anger we have with each and all the anger we have with each and all the anger we have with each other just like you said your friends on other just like you said your friends on other just like you said your friends on the right and the left and stuff and the right and the left and stuff and the right and the left and stuff and like we could show that kind of like we could show that kind of like we could show that kind of compassion and we do I mean humanity compassion and we do I mean humanity compassion and we do I mean humanity does from time to time show that kind of does from time to time show that kind of does from time to time show that kind of comp but we could show that kind of like comp but we could show that kind of like comp but we could show that kind of like just undeserved just undeserved just undeserved just just just just love you know to each other too just love you know to each other too just love you know to each other too like and like and like and love is like it's funny you know you love is like it's funny you know you love is like it's funny you know you talked about how both of those talked about how both of those talked about how both of those presidents you could say they at least presidents you could say they at least presidents you could say they at least love their family. But love is like I love their family. But love is like I love their family. But love is like I think everyone's capable of love. It's think everyone's capable of love. It's think everyone's capable of love. It's probably the most powerful thing there probably the most powerful thing there probably the most powerful thing there is even beyond hate. I think is you know is even beyond hate. I think is you know is even beyond hate. I think is you know like but it is crazy with it's so it like but it is crazy with it's so it like but it is crazy with it's so it comes out of us so easily with animals comes out of us so easily with animals comes out of us so easily with animals because they to us they're in they're because they to us they're in they're because they to us they're in they're just these innocent little lives. We just these innocent little lives. We just these innocent little lives. We don't have anything against them you

don't have anything against them you don't have anything against them you know like they don't have they don't know like they don't have they don't know like they don't have they don't they don't they don't talk. They don't they don't they don't talk. They don't they don't they don't talk. They don't have political views. They don't they're have political views. They don't they're have political views. They don't they're just little creatures. But the reality just little creatures. But the reality just little creatures. But the reality is is we're all just we're all just is is we're all just we're all just is is we're all just we're all just creatures like that, you know? We do creatures like that, you know? We do creatures like that, you know? We do that with human children. Yeah. But we that with human children. Yeah. But we that with human children. Yeah. But we don't do it enough with adults who are don't do it enough with adults who are don't do it enough with adults who are also kinds of children. They're still also kinds of children. They're still also kinds of children. They're still we're still like we're still fucking we're still like we're still fucking we're still like we're still fucking lost in this world. Uh so I got to ask I lost in this world. Uh so I got to ask I lost in this world. Uh so I got to ask I got to I got to read you this. It's got got to I got to read you this. It's got got to I got to read you this. It's got to be one of my favorite poems. It's to be one of my favorite poems. It's to be one of my favorite poems. It's called The History of One Tough called The History of One Tough called The History of One Tough Motherfucker by Charles Bukowski. And Motherfucker by Charles Bukowski. And Motherfucker by Charles Bukowski. And people should go look at videos. Well, people should go look at videos. Well, people should go look at videos. Well, there's videos of Bukauski doing there's videos of Bukauski doing there's videos of Bukauski doing interviews with a interviews with a interviews with a cat by his side, and that's the cat he's cat by his side, and that's the cat he's cat by his side, and that's the cat he's talking about. All right, it goes like talking about. All right, it goes like talking about. All right, it goes like this. He came to the door one night, this. He came to the door one night, this. He came to the door one night, wet, thin, beaten, and terrorized. A wet, thin, beaten, and terrorized. A wet, thin, beaten, and terrorized. A white, crosseyed, tailless cat. I took white, crosseyed, tailless cat. I took white, crosseyed, tailless cat. I took him in and fed him, and he stayed. Grew him in and fed him, and he stayed. Grew him in and fed him, and he stayed. Grew to trust me until a friend drove up the to trust me until a friend drove up the to trust me until a friend drove up the driveway and ran him over. I took what driveway and ran him over. I took what driveway and ran him over. I took what was left to a vet who said, "Not much was left to a vet who said, "Not much was left to a vet who said, "Not much chance. Give him these pills. His chance. Give him these pills. His chance. Give him these pills. His backbone is crushed." But it was crushed backbone is crushed." But it was crushed backbone is crushed." But it was crushed before and somehow mended. If he lives, before and somehow mended. If he lives, before and somehow mended. If he lives, he'll never walk. Look at these X-rays.

he'll never walk. Look at these X-rays. he'll never walk. Look at these X-rays. He's been shot. Look here. The pellets He's been shot. Look here. The pellets He's been shot. Look here. The pellets are still there. Also, he once had a are still there. Also, he once had a are still there. Also, he once had a tail. Somebody cut it tail. Somebody cut it tail. Somebody cut it off. I took the cat back. It was a hot off. I took the cat back. It was a hot off. I took the cat back. It was a hot summer, one of the hottest in decades. I summer, one of the hottest in decades. I summer, one of the hottest in decades. I put him on the bathroom floor, gave him put him on the bathroom floor, gave him put him on the bathroom floor, gave him water and pills. He wouldn't eat. He water and pills. He wouldn't eat. He water and pills. He wouldn't eat. He wouldn't touch the water. I dipped my wouldn't touch the water. I dipped my wouldn't touch the water. I dipped my finger into it and wet his mouth and I finger into it and wet his mouth and I finger into it and wet his mouth and I talked to him. I didn't go anywhere. I talked to him. I didn't go anywhere. I talked to him. I didn't go anywhere. I put in a lot of bathroom time and talked put in a lot of bathroom time and talked put in a lot of bathroom time and talked to him and gently touched him and he to him and gently touched him and he to him and gently touched him and he looked back at me with those pale blue looked back at me with those pale blue looked back at me with those pale blue crossed eyes. And as the days went by, crossed eyes. And as the days went by, crossed eyes. And as the days went by, he made his first move, dragging himself he made his first move, dragging himself he made his first move, dragging himself forward by his front legs. The rear ones forward by his front legs. The rear ones forward by his front legs. The rear ones wouldn't work. He made it to the litter wouldn't work. He made it to the litter wouldn't work. He made it to the litter box, crawled over and in. It was like box, crawled over and in. It was like box, crawled over and in. It was like the trumpet of possible victory blowing the trumpet of possible victory blowing the trumpet of possible victory blowing in that bathroom and into the city. I in that bathroom and into the city. I in that bathroom and into the city. I related to that cat. I had it bad. Not related to that cat. I had it bad. Not related to that cat. I had it bad. Not that bad, but bad enough. One morning, that bad, but bad enough. One morning, that bad, but bad enough. One morning, he got up, stood up, fell back down, and he got up, stood up, fell back down, and he got up, stood up, fell back down, and just looked at me. "You can make it," I just looked at me. "You can make it," I just looked at me. "You can make it," I said to him. He kept trying, getting up, said to him. He kept trying, getting up, said to him. He kept trying, getting up, falling down. Finally, he walked a few falling down. Finally, he walked a few falling down. Finally, he walked a few steps. He was like a drunk. The rear steps. He was like a drunk. The rear steps. He was like a drunk. The rear legs just didn't want to do it. And he legs just didn't want to do it. And he legs just didn't want to do it. And he fell again. Rested, then got up. You fell again. Rested, then got up. You fell again. Rested, then got up. You know the rest. Now he's better than know the rest. Now he's better than know the rest. Now he's better than ever. Crosseyed, almost toothless. But ever. Crosseyed, almost toothless. But ever. Crosseyed, almost toothless. But the grace is back. And that look in his the grace is back. And that look in his the grace is back. And that look in his eyes never left. And now sometimes I'm

eyes never left. And now sometimes I'm eyes never left. And now sometimes I'm interviewed. They want to hear about interviewed. They want to hear about interviewed. They want to hear about life and literature. And I get drunk and life and literature. And I get drunk and life and literature. And I get drunk and hold up my crosseyed shot run over hold up my crosseyed shot run over hold up my crosseyed shot run over detailed cat and I say, "Look, look at detailed cat and I say, "Look, look at detailed cat and I say, "Look, look at this." But they don't understand. They this." But they don't understand. They this." But they don't understand. They say something like, "Uh, you say you've say something like, "Uh, you say you've say something like, "Uh, you say you've been influenced by Seline?" No. I hold been influenced by Seline?" No. I hold been influenced by Seline?" No. I hold the cat up. Influenced by what happens, the cat up. Influenced by what happens, the cat up. Influenced by what happens, by things like this, by this? By this? I by things like this, by this? By this? I by things like this, by this? By this? I shake the cat. Hold him up in the smoky shake the cat. Hold him up in the smoky shake the cat. Hold him up in the smoky and drunken light. He's relaxed. He and drunken light. He's relaxed. He and drunken light. He's relaxed. He knows. It's then that the interviews knows. It's then that the interviews knows. It's then that the interviews end. Although I am proud sometimes when end. Although I am proud sometimes when end. Although I am proud sometimes when I see the pictures later and there I am I see the pictures later and there I am I see the pictures later and there I am and there's the cat and we are and there's the cat and we are and there's the cat and we are photographed together. He too knows it's photographed together. He too knows it's photographed together. He too knows it's bullshit. But that somehow it all bullshit. But that somehow it all bullshit. But that somehow it all helps. So when you posted about the the helps. So when you posted about the the helps. So when you posted about the the three-legged cat, there you go. And I I three-legged cat, there you go. And I I three-legged cat, there you go. And I I I I think of your music and your life I I think of your music and your life I I think of your music and your life story in the same way. It's just been story in the same way. It's just been story in the same way. It's just been through some shit. Just like Bukowski.

through some shit. Just like Bukowski. through some shit. Just like Bukowski. Neither of you two have been through Neither of you two have been through Neither of you two have been through what that cat's been through. But you what that cat's been through. But you what that cat's been through. But you know, that's kind of life. That's what know, that's kind of life. That's what know, that's kind of life. That's what it's all about. Uh I was wondering if it's all about. Uh I was wondering if it's all about. Uh I was wondering if you could uh play a couple songs. Sure. you could uh play a couple songs. Sure. you could uh play a couple songs. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Do you want to Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Do you want to Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. Do you want to take a break or No. Um No, I'm good. It take a break or No. Um No, I'm good. It take a break or No. Um No, I'm good. It might we might take a break just just might we might take a break just just might we might take a break just just for me to get this figured out. But for me to get this figured out. But for me to get this figured out. But bathroom and break real quick. Of bathroom and break real quick. Of bathroom and break real quick. Of course. Yeah. course. Yeah. course. Yeah. Where is Where is the guitar? Like where Where is Where is the guitar? Like where Where is Where is the guitar? Like where No, like positionally, I think. Yeah, I No, like positionally, I think. Yeah, I No, like positionally, I think. Yeah, I think this will be "Help." Well, if you I guess I'll do um "Help." Well, if you I guess I'll do um if I was going to do anything on here if I was going to do anything on here if I was going to do anything on here from the older songs that that was from the older songs that that was from the older songs that that was relatable to everything we've talked relatable to everything we've talked relatable to everything we've talked about, it it probably be I Want to Go about, it it probably be I Want to Go about, it it probably be I Want to Go Home. Sounds good. Home. Sounds good. Home. Sounds good. [Music] [Music] [Music] Well, if it weren't for my old dogs and Well, if it weren't for my old dogs and Well, if it weren't for my old dogs and the good Lord, they'd have me strung up the good Lord, they'd have me strung up the good Lord, they'd have me strung up in the psych ward. Cuz every day living in the psych ward. Cuz every day living in the psych ward. Cuz every day living in this new world is one too many days

in this new world is one too many days in this new world is one too many days to me. Son, we're on the to me. Son, we're on the to me. Son, we're on the brink of the next world war. And I don't brink of the next world war. And I don't brink of the next world war. And I don't think nobody's praying no more. And I think nobody's praying no more. And I think nobody's praying no more. And I ain't saying I know it for sure. I'm ain't saying I know it for sure. I'm ain't saying I know it for sure. I'm just down on my knees begging the Lord, just down on my knees begging the Lord, just down on my knees begging the Lord, take me home. take me home. take me home. I want to go home. I don't know which road to go. home. I don't know which road to go. It's been so It's been so It's been so long. I just know I didn't used to wake long. I just know I didn't used to wake long. I just know I didn't used to wake up feeling this way. Cursing up feeling this way. Cursing up feeling this way. Cursing myself every damn day. People have myself every damn day. People have myself every damn day. People have really gone and lost their way. They all really gone and lost their way. They all really gone and lost their way. They all just do what the TV say. I want to go home. Four home. Four generations farming the ground. grandson generations farming the ground. grandson generations farming the ground. grandson sells it to a man out of town. And two sells it to a man out of town. And two sells it to a man out of town. And two weeks later, the trees go down. Only got weeks later, the trees go down. Only got weeks later, the trees go down. Only got concrete growing around. And I want to concrete growing around. And I want to concrete growing around. And I want to go

go go home. I want to go home. I don't know which road to go. home. I don't know which road to go. It's been so It's been so It's been so long. I'll just know I didn't used to long. I'll just know I didn't used to long. I'll just know I didn't used to wake up feeling this way. Cursing wake up feeling this way. Cursing wake up feeling this way. Cursing myself every damn day. There's always myself every damn day. There's always myself every damn day. There's always some kind of bill to pay. People just some kind of bill to pay. People just some kind of bill to pay. People just doing what the rich man say. I want to doing what the rich man say. I want to doing what the rich man say. I want to go home. Well, if it weren't for my old dogs and Well, if it weren't for my old dogs and the good Lord, well, they'd have me the good Lord, well, they'd have me the good Lord, well, they'd have me strung up in the sideboard.

strung up in the sideboard. strung up in the sideboard. [Music] That's probably one of the first I don't That's probably one of the first I don't know. It's not the first song I wrote, know. It's not the first song I wrote, know. It's not the first song I wrote, but one of them. What a song, man. What but one of them. What a song, man. What but one of them. What a song, man. What a song. What a song. What's the story of a song. What a song. What's the story of a song. What a song. What's the story of that guitar? Well, the guy who made this that guitar? Well, the guy who made this that guitar? Well, the guy who made this like saved my butt cuz everything blew like saved my butt cuz everything blew like saved my butt cuz everything blew up and I was playing that little Gretch up and I was playing that little Gretch up and I was playing that little Gretch resonator that's in all the original resonator that's in all the original resonator that's in all the original videos and my my wife had got me that videos and my my wife had got me that videos and my my wife had got me that off of Amazon I think or something for off of Amazon I think or something for off of Amazon I think or something for like three or 4 hund bucks. It's like a like three or 4 hund bucks. It's like a like three or 4 hund bucks. It's like a just an entry level like import little just an entry level like import little just an entry level like import little Gretch and the pickup never would work Gretch and the pickup never would work Gretch and the pickup never would work right in it. So, this string would right in it. So, this string would right in it. So, this string would wouldn't work when you plugged it in. wouldn't work when you plugged it in. wouldn't work when you plugged it in. Mhm. So, here we are. Everything happens Mhm. So, here we are. Everything happens Mhm. So, here we are. Everything happens all at once and we're trying to do these all at once and we're trying to do these all at once and we're trying to do these shows and shows and shows and like, you know, I think the biggest one like, you know, I think the biggest one like, you know, I think the biggest one I did, so basically what I ended up I did, so basically what I ended up I did, so basically what I ended up having to do was go I bought one of having to do was go I bought one of having to do was go I bought one of these suction cup rigs that sticks right these suction cup rigs that sticks right these suction cup rigs that sticks right here and the mic goes down under here to here and the mic goes down under here to here and the mic goes down under here to pick that string up. And I played like pick that string up. And I played like pick that string up. And I played like we played like a I think the biggest we played like a I think the biggest we played like a I think the biggest show I did with it was like 10,000 show I did with it was like 10,000 show I did with it was like 10,000 people. But it was enough to where I people. But it was enough to where I people. But it was enough to where I couldn't be doing a $300 guitar with a couldn't be doing a $300 guitar with a couldn't be doing a $300 guitar with a with a rigged up thing on it anymore. It with a rigged up thing on it anymore. It with a rigged up thing on it anymore. It just wasn't going to work. So, this guy just wasn't going to work. So, this guy just wasn't going to work. So, this guy reached out and um Gretch wouldn't help reached out and um Gretch wouldn't help reached out and um Gretch wouldn't help me with my Gret like you know there's no me with my Gret like you know there's no me with my Gret like you know there's no way to really get a hold of them because way to really get a hold of them because way to really get a hold of them because they're such a big company at the I I they're such a big company at the I I they're such a big company at the I I finally did get a hold of Diane Gretch finally did get a hold of Diane Gretch finally did get a hold of Diane Gretch and she's like really nice and so it's and she's like really nice and so it's and she's like really nice and so it's nothing personal against Gretch. It's nothing personal against Gretch. It's nothing personal against Gretch. It's just at the time I couldn't get a hold just at the time I couldn't get a hold just at the time I couldn't get a hold of them. I figured I would have been of them. I figured I would have been of them. I figured I would have been able to cuz like everywhere sold out of able to cuz like everywhere sold out of able to cuz like everywhere sold out of those that Gretch model when the song those that Gretch model when the song those that Gretch model when the song blew up, you know, like it was a real blew up, you know, like it was a real blew up, you know, like it was a real pop but that I couldn't get a hold of

pop but that I couldn't get a hold of pop but that I couldn't get a hold of him. So, this guy, Beard Guitar, Paul him. So, this guy, Beard Guitar, Paul him. So, this guy, Beard Guitar, Paul Beard in Maryland, he reached out, fixed Beard in Maryland, he reached out, fixed Beard in Maryland, he reached out, fixed my Gretch, and then um gave me one of my Gretch, and then um gave me one of my Gretch, and then um gave me one of these and made it with a but it's all these and made it with a but it's all these and made it with a but it's all handmade and all. It's like, yeah, you can like whack somebody like, yeah, you can like whack somebody over the head with it. Pretty good. over the head with it. Pretty good. over the head with it. Pretty good. Yeah, it's nice and heavy. But yeah, he Yeah, it's nice and heavy. But yeah, he Yeah, it's nice and heavy. But yeah, he makes them all by hand. Uh nice little makes them all by hand. Uh nice little makes them all by hand. Uh nice little familyowned place. And I know nothing familyowned place. And I know nothing familyowned place. And I know nothing about resonated guitars. Is that like about resonated guitars. Is that like about resonated guitars. Is that like uh do you play regular acoustic? Yeah, uh do you play regular acoustic? Yeah, uh do you play regular acoustic? Yeah, it's just basically a regular acoustic. it's just basically a regular acoustic. it's just basically a regular acoustic. It's just a full step down is the only It's just a full step down is the only It's just a full step down is the only difference. I've just got it tuned all difference. I've just got it tuned all difference. I've just got it tuned all the way down. Is that it? Because the way down. Is that it? Because the way down. Is that it? Because there's also like there's also like there's also like the whole vibe to it. Oh, yeah. Well, the whole vibe to it. Oh, yeah. Well, the whole vibe to it. Oh, yeah. Well, the body's different. So, you can see the body's different. So, you can see the body's different. So, you can see it's got like a it's got like a solid, it's got like a it's got like a solid, it's got like a it's got like a solid, you know, instead of it being a hollow you know, instead of it being a hollow you know, instead of it being a hollow body, like an acoustic, it's got that it body, like an acoustic, it's got that it body, like an acoustic, it's got that it almost looks like a hub cap. That black almost looks like a hub cap. That black almost looks like a hub cap. That black all the cord that's all the same. It's all the cord that's all the same. It's all the cord that's all the same. It's just Yeah, it's just the same. Yeah. I I just Yeah, it's just the same. Yeah. I I just Yeah, it's just the same. Yeah. I I wouldn't be smart enough to play wouldn't be smart enough to play wouldn't be smart enough to play anything special like it's just a anything special like it's just a anything special like it's just a regular old guitar. I don't know. regular old guitar. I don't know. regular old guitar. I don't know. There's a different vibe to it. Yeah. There's a different vibe to it. Yeah. There's a different vibe to it. Yeah. Well, I like that. cooler. Well, the old Well, I like that. cooler. Well, the old Well, I like that. cooler. Well, the old I'm real I'm real fond of like the older I'm real I'm real fond of like the older I'm real I'm real fond of like the older music like music like music like um so like where all my family's from.

um so like where all my family's from. um so like where all my family's from. So my dad was adopted so I don't have So my dad was adopted so I don't have So my dad was adopted so I don't have any like Lunsford's not really even a any like Lunsford's not really even a any like Lunsford's not really even a real last name to me. They're all just real last name to me. They're all just real last name to me. They're all just it was just my grandparents that adopted it was just my grandparents that adopted it was just my grandparents that adopted my dad. So all of my family's Engle is my dad. So all of my family's Engle is my dad. So all of my family's Engle is like Ning GLE E that's like my real like Ning GLE E that's like my real like Ning GLE E that's like my real that's on my mom's side of my family and that's on my mom's side of my family and that's on my mom's side of my family and um they're all from this place about 20 um they're all from this place about 20 um they're all from this place about 20 miles from where like the Carter family miles from where like the Carter family miles from where like the Carter family was from. So all that old was from. So all that old was from. So all that old Virginia like kind of bluegrass folk Virginia like kind of bluegrass folk Virginia like kind of bluegrass folk music and stuff and so I I was just music and stuff and so I I was just music and stuff and so I I was just always attracted to that. And so that's always attracted to that. And so that's always attracted to that. And so that's I I like the I like the resonator a full I I like the I like the resonator a full I I like the I like the resonator a full step down because it kind to me it kind step down because it kind to me it kind step down because it kind to me it kind of gives it that old sound like um you of gives it that old sound like um you of gives it that old sound like um you know a lot of the instruments back then know a lot of the instruments back then know a lot of the instruments back then had like bad dull strings and they were had like bad dull strings and they were had like bad dull strings and they were older and they were out of tune a little older and they were out of tune a little older and they were out of tune a little bit and stuff and I just I listen to a bit and stuff and I just I listen to a bit and stuff and I just I listen to a lot of that type of music. So I like I lot of that type of music. So I like I lot of that type of music. So I like I like the strings being a little out of like the strings being a little out of like the strings being a little out of tune and dull and not everything and tune and dull and not everything and tune and dull and not everything and just that. Yeah, that's why I was so just that. Yeah, that's why I was so just that. Yeah, that's why I was so attracted to it. plus like some of the attracted to it. plus like some of the attracted to it. plus like some of the old blues players like you know playing old blues players like you know playing old blues players like you know playing the Dough Bro and stuff. But that was my the Dough Bro and stuff. But that was my the Dough Bro and stuff. But that was my that's why I wanted to get the resonator that's why I wanted to get the resonator that's why I wanted to get the resonator was just cuz that old I mean every was just cuz that old I mean every was just cuz that old I mean every that's even why like you know I had to that's even why like you know I had to that's even why like you know I had to use my grandpa's name as an alias but use my grandpa's name as an alias but use my grandpa's name as an alias but that Oliver Anthony music is really that Oliver Anthony music is really that Oliver Anthony music is really supposed to represent like old music supposed to represent like old music supposed to represent like old music from like 1930s Virginia or something from like 1930s Virginia or something from like 1930s Virginia or something like you know like it's kind of got that like you know like it's kind of got that like you know like it's kind of got that type of feel to it or at least in in its type of feel to it or at least in in its type of feel to it or at least in in its core you know it feels like from another core you know it feels like from another core you know it feels like from another time but it also feels timeless. It's time but it also feels timeless. It's time but it also feels timeless. It's also that my music catalog is so limited also that my music catalog is so limited also that my music catalog is so limited like of what I listen to that a lot of

like of what I listen to that a lot of like of what I listen to that a lot of what's in my head like as you think what's in my head like as you think what's in my head like as you think about when you're writing songs and like about when you're writing songs and like about when you're writing songs and like coming up with chord progressions and coming up with chord progressions and coming up with chord progressions and stuff you whether you realize it or not stuff you whether you realize it or not stuff you whether you realize it or not it's all being influenced off of other it's all being influenced off of other it's all being influenced off of other songs. So when you only have a lot of songs. So when you only have a lot of songs. So when you only have a lot of older music and like some a little bit older music and like some a little bit older music and like some a little bit of metal and stuff in there. It's like of metal and stuff in there. It's like of metal and stuff in there. It's like there's not really a whole lot. It's there's not really a whole lot. It's there's not really a whole lot. It's like that you know it's kind of going to like that you know it's kind of going to like that you know it's kind of going to sound that way I guess just in anyway sound that way I guess just in anyway sound that way I guess just in anyway because that's what's in your head because that's what's in your head because that's what's in your head already. already. already. So, you're going to go out there a So, you're going to go out there a So, you're going to go out there a little bit this little bit this little bit this year. What are what are some things year. What are what are some things year. What are what are some things you're looking forward to? You're going you're looking forward to? You're going you're looking forward to? You're going to travel a bit. You're going to play a to travel a bit. You're going to play a to travel a bit. You're going to play a bit. The idea is is to go to a town like bit. The idea is is to go to a town like bit. The idea is is to go to a town like let's just use Iowa as an example. let's just use Iowa as an example. let's just use Iowa as an example. Instead of in instead of the big city in Instead of in instead of the big city in Instead of in instead of the big city in Iowa playing at the venue where Iowa playing at the venue where Iowa playing at the venue where everybody books, let's find a farm field everybody books, let's find a farm field everybody books, let's find a farm field 45 minutes outside of that big city. 45 minutes outside of that big city. 45 minutes outside of that big city. Figure out the ingress, egress, the Figure out the ingress, egress, the Figure out the ingress, egress, the security. you find a good promoter that security. you find a good promoter that security. you find a good promoter that can like a show organizer basically that can like a show organizer basically that can like a show organizer basically that has experience to where it's still it's has experience to where it's still it's has experience to where it's still it's still professional and it's done still professional and it's done still professional and it's done correctly but establish like a new venue correctly but establish like a new venue correctly but establish like a new venue space that can't be that can't be put space that can't be that can't be put space that can't be that can't be put under contract by a monopoly that any under contract by a monopoly that any under contract by a monopoly that any artist can go play like without like if artist can go play like without like if artist can go play like without like if if all these musicians are sick of if all these musicians are sick of if all these musicians are sick of Ticket Master and Live Nation then let's Ticket Master and Live Nation then let's Ticket Master and Live Nation then let's just let's just start playing in fields just let's just start playing in fields just let's just start playing in fields and on main streets and set these venues and on main streets and set these venues and on main streets and set these venues up and establish them correctly and up and establish them correctly and up and establish them correctly and professionally to where they exist as professionally to where they exist as professionally to where they exist as their own space and then and then their own space and then and then their own space and then and then imagine the economic impact that would imagine the economic impact that would imagine the economic impact that would provide to a town that otherwise would provide to a town that otherwise would provide to a town that otherwise would never h like and imagine what it you you never h like and imagine what it you you never h like and imagine what it you you want to talk about trying to give want to talk about trying to give want to talk about trying to give bluecollar people like some hope or give bluecollar people like some hope or give bluecollar people like some hope or give them some relatability or do anything

them some relatability or do anything them some relatability or do anything for them like bring a big band to their for them like bring a big band to their for them like bring a big band to their town that they would otherwise have to town that they would otherwise have to town that they would otherwise have to drive an hour and a half somewhere to drive an hour and a half somewhere to drive an hour and a half somewhere to see and couldn't even afford the tickets see and couldn't even afford the tickets see and couldn't even afford the tickets to start with. Like my tour last year, to start with. Like my tour last year, to start with. Like my tour last year, pretty much every show we did that was pretty much every show we did that was pretty much every show we did that was mine had a $25 ticket option and mine had a $25 ticket option and mine had a $25 ticket option and everybody scoffed at that. And I just I everybody scoffed at that. And I just I everybody scoffed at that. And I just I was basically like made fun of for that was basically like made fun of for that was basically like made fun of for that by people in the professional space. by people in the professional space. by people in the professional space. Even people I was working with, they Even people I was working with, they Even people I was working with, they just thought it was so stupid. But you just thought it was so stupid. But you just thought it was so stupid. But you know what? There were people at my shows know what? There were people at my shows know what? There were people at my shows that came up and the kids were wearing that came up and the kids were wearing that came up and the kids were wearing hand-me-down clothes and and like you hand-me-down clothes and and like you hand-me-down clothes and and like you could tell they didn't have any money could tell they didn't have any money could tell they didn't have any money and they and they said it meant a lot to and they and they said it meant a lot to and they and they said it meant a lot to them that they could come and that there them that they could come and that there them that they could come and that there was a $25 option. And so, and I'll was a $25 option. And so, and I'll was a $25 option. And so, and I'll continue to do these shows like this to continue to do these shows like this to continue to do these shows like this to where any band that wants to come play where any band that wants to come play where any band that wants to come play the show, all their expenses are the show, all their expenses are the show, all their expenses are covered. Um, and I'm sure there's some covered. Um, and I'm sure there's some covered. Um, and I'm sure there's some kind of tax writeoff component to them kind of tax writeoff component to them kind of tax writeoff component to them for them, but basically they can come for them, but basically they can come for them, but basically they can come in, do the show, help bring in a crowd. in, do the show, help bring in a crowd. in, do the show, help bring in a crowd. Like, I'm taking the risk setting the Like, I'm taking the risk setting the Like, I'm taking the risk setting the venue up and establishing it. The venue venue up and establishing it. The venue venue up and establishing it. The venue will be owned or managed by either the will be owned or managed by either the will be owned or managed by either the town or the farm or whatever, but it's town or the farm or whatever, but it's town or the farm or whatever, but it's it's it'll be in a nonprofit. And then it's it'll be in a nonprofit. And then it's it'll be in a nonprofit. And then that that space will always exist for that that space will always exist for that that space will always exist for people to rent. And the idea is it's people to rent. And the idea is it's people to rent. And the idea is it's like, man, imagine if I did if I could like, man, imagine if I did if I could like, man, imagine if I did if I could do 20 of these a year, even if that's do 20 of these a year, even if that's do 20 of these a year, even if that's even if that's all I can get done, like even if that's all I can get done, like even if that's all I can get done, like that's 20 places that will always have that's 20 places that will always have that's 20 places that will always have music and we'll always have a center music and we'll always have a center music and we'll always have a center where people can go like and build this where people can go like and build this where people can go like and build this sense of community. We talked about like sense of community. We talked about like sense of community. We talked about like it's almost like a sanctuary, if you it's almost like a sanctuary, if you it's almost like a sanctuary, if you want to call it that, but it's like a want to call it that, but it's like a want to call it that, but it's like a it's just a space that can't be it's just a space that can't be it's just a space that can't be perverted by by corporate America and perverted by by corporate America and perverted by by corporate America and just a place where people can go and just a place where people can go and just a place where people can go and like do all these things that we want to like do all these things that we want to like do all these things that we want to do.

do. do. Um, what are you excited for this year? Um, what are you excited for this year? Um, what are you excited for this year? Obviously, you're going to travel Obviously, you're going to travel Obviously, you're going to travel overseas and you got sounds like you got overseas and you got sounds like you got overseas and you got sounds like you got some some other cool stuff you're going some some other cool stuff you're going some some other cool stuff you're going to do. Yeah, I'm going to see uh I'm to do. Yeah, I'm going to see uh I'm to do. Yeah, I'm going to see uh I'm going to see some world leaders. going to see some world leaders. going to see some world leaders. Hopefully, not end up in prison Hopefully, not end up in prison Hopefully, not end up in prison anywhere. Um, part part of that honestly anywhere. Um, part part of that honestly anywhere. Um, part part of that honestly I'm excited, you know, like India to see I'm excited, you know, like India to see I'm excited, you know, like India to see the same humans but in very different the same humans but in very different the same humans but in very different parts of the world. M I'm not a travel parts of the world. M I'm not a travel parts of the world. M I'm not a travel guy, but I love seeing humans that guy, but I love seeing humans that guy, but I love seeing humans that there's like a lot of us humans all over there's like a lot of us humans all over there's like a lot of us humans all over the place and they're very different and the place and they're very different and the place and they're very different and they have funny accents and just funny they have funny accents and just funny they have funny accents and just funny way of being, you know, so I'm excited way of being, you know, so I'm excited way of being, you know, so I'm excited to take it all in cuz I fundamentally to take it all in cuz I fundamentally to take it all in cuz I fundamentally love people. Yeah, man. Like I I uh I love people. Yeah, man. Like I I uh I love people. Yeah, man. Like I I uh I would definitely say if you're ever up would definitely say if you're ever up would definitely say if you're ever up if you're ever over towards Virginia or if you're ever over towards Virginia or if you're ever over towards Virginia or West Virginia, either one there, like West Virginia, either one there, like West Virginia, either one there, like yeah, it'd be cool to spend a couple yeah, it'd be cool to spend a couple yeah, it'd be cool to spend a couple days out in the woods or a day out in days out in the woods or a day out in days out in the woods or a day out in the woods and do I I haven't really I the woods and do I I haven't really I the woods and do I I haven't really I was I'm really new to the whole was I'm really new to the whole was I'm really new to the whole psilocybin thing, but I have tried a few psilocybin thing, but I have tried a few psilocybin thing, but I have tried a few smaller doses of it actually to help smaller doses of it actually to help smaller doses of it actually to help with being up on stage and all and um with being up on stage and all and um with being up on stage and all and um it's an interesting thing, but it's it's an interesting thing, but it's it's an interesting thing, but it's great. Yeah, the dog definitely the dogs great. Yeah, the dog definitely the dogs great. Yeah, the dog definitely the dogs and the woods part. I got you on that.

and the woods part. I got you on that. and the woods part. I got you on that. Oh, I would love to join in. I mean, Oh, I would love to join in. I mean, Oh, I would love to join in. I mean, I've I've I've taken mushrooms a few I've I've I've taken mushrooms a few I've I've I've taken mushrooms a few times. And listen, I usually just love times. And listen, I usually just love times. And listen, I usually just love everything anyway, but with mushrooms, everything anyway, but with mushrooms, everything anyway, but with mushrooms, you just love it a little bit more. you just love it a little bit more. you just love it a little bit more. Like, especially out in nature, but I'm Like, especially out in nature, but I'm Like, especially out in nature, but I'm look out in nature. I'm just in awe of look out in nature. I'm just in awe of look out in nature. I'm just in awe of how incredibly beautiful it is. And just how incredibly beautiful it is. And just how incredibly beautiful it is. And just I could stare at a I could stare at a I could stare at a tree for hours. And then you take tree for hours. And then you take tree for hours. And then you take mushrooms and like that tree starts like mushrooms and like that tree starts like mushrooms and like that tree starts like having some more dynamism to it. So, having some more dynamism to it. So, having some more dynamism to it. So, it's just a little boost. But like, it's just a little boost. But like, it's just a little boost. But like, yeah, I get into this crazy, like I yeah, I get into this crazy, like I yeah, I get into this crazy, like I said, it's only been a handful of times said, it's only been a handful of times said, it's only been a handful of times because I've because I've because I've I don't know. It's one of those things I don't know. It's one of those things I don't know. It's one of those things where it's I'm It's still a little where it's I'm It's still a little where it's I'm It's still a little unfamiliar to me, but unfamiliar to me, but unfamiliar to me, but like like talking about trees and like like talking about trees and like like talking about trees and psilocybin, you know, you think about psilocybin, you know, you think about psilocybin, you know, you think about you start to look in those trees and you you start to look in those trees and you you start to look in those trees and you think think think like in their relative perspective of like in their relative perspective of like in their relative perspective of time, you know, cuz they're constantly time, you know, cuz they're constantly time, you know, cuz they're constantly moving around and growing and doing all moving around and growing and doing all moving around and growing and doing all these things. And you think about like these things. And you think about like these things. And you think about like in their perspective maybe we're just in their perspective maybe we're just in their perspective maybe we're just we're just moving way faster than their we're just moving way faster than their we're just moving way faster than their perception and they're they're moving at perception and they're they're moving at perception and they're they're moving at just a normal speed. I don't it's just just a normal speed. I don't it's just just a normal speed. I don't it's just you get into all these crazy trains of you get into all these crazy trains of you get into all these crazy trains of thought when you sit out in the woods on thought when you sit out in the woods on thought when you sit out in the woods on that stuff. But 100% man. I mean like that stuff. But 100% man. I mean like that stuff. But 100% man. I mean like maybe that's the history of uh life. I maybe that's the history of uh life. I maybe that's the history of uh life. I mean humans will have some chance of mean humans will have some chance of mean humans will have some chance of destroying 95 99% of the population with destroying 95 99% of the population with destroying 95 99% of the population with nuclear weapons. And the trees will nuclear weapons. And the trees will nuclear weapons. And the trees will remain and they will reconstruct the remain and they will reconstruct the remain and they will reconstruct the environment of Earth and help the the environment of Earth and help the the environment of Earth and help the the few humans that remain to survive. And few humans that remain to survive. And few humans that remain to survive. And it'll be the fucking trees that we'd be it'll be the fucking trees that we'd be it'll be the fucking trees that we'd be grateful for. Their actual

grateful for. Their actual grateful for. Their actual deep ancient deep ancient deep ancient uh uh uh wisdom. So maybe they're the intelligent wisdom. So maybe they're the intelligent wisdom. So maybe they're the intelligent ones. Maybe we are the idiots. When ones. Maybe we are the idiots. When ones. Maybe we are the idiots. When you're out in nature like that and just you're out in nature like that and just you're out in nature like that and just reading about just looking at and reading about just looking at and reading about just looking at and studying the way all those systems work studying the way all those systems work studying the way all those systems work with soil and trees and animals and how with soil and trees and animals and how with soil and trees and animals and how it all just integrates in together so it all just integrates in together so it all just integrates in together so perfectly, it does give you some sense perfectly, it does give you some sense perfectly, it does give you some sense of peace that maybe there is some there of peace that maybe there is some there of peace that maybe there is some there is some system at place that's out of is some system at place that's out of is some system at place that's out of our hands that can just help us with our our hands that can just help us with our our hands that can just help us with our fa our faults and our repercussions. And fa our faults and our repercussions. And fa our faults and our repercussions. And again, like for me, just again, like for me, just again, like for me, just um yeah, I think just being out there, um yeah, I think just being out there, um yeah, I think just being out there, especially now that now looking at it especially now that now looking at it especially now that now looking at it through the lens of of God, of their, through the lens of of God, of their, through the lens of of God, of their, you know, of of God, it helps. There's you know, of of God, it helps. There's you know, of of God, it helps. There's I've found no greater peace than just I've found no greater peace than just I've found no greater peace than just being out in the woods and and praying being out in the woods and and praying being out in the woods and and praying or just trying to focus my mind on on or just trying to focus my mind on on or just trying to focus my mind on on that. Like I But yeah, I would love for that. Like I But yeah, I would love for that. Like I But yeah, I would love for you to come out there sometime and I'm you to come out there sometime and I'm you to come out there sometime and I'm 100% will and visit. Um, see like 100% will and visit. Um, see like 100% will and visit. Um, see like feeling peaceful out in Virginia in the feeling peaceful out in Virginia in the feeling peaceful out in Virginia in the woods is easy. Try doing it in the woods is easy. Try doing it in the woods is easy. Try doing it in the Amazon jungle when a giant Oh, I'd love Amazon jungle when a giant Oh, I'd love Amazon jungle when a giant Oh, I'd love and just bites you. Dude, I would do and just bites you. Dude, I would do and just bites you. Dude, I would do anything to go to the and all the pieces anything to go to the and all the pieces anything to go to the and all the pieces is is gone. You're like, motherfucker, is is gone. You're like, motherfucker, is is gone. You're like, motherfucker, what are you what is and then it like a what are you what is and then it like a what are you what is and then it like a second one joins in, kills the first second one joins in, kills the first second one joins in, kills the first one, and bites you again. And then one, and bites you again. And then one, and bites you again. And then you're like, okay, nature is not all you're like, okay, nature is not all you're like, okay, nature is not all Yeah, it's not. I mean there is uh there Yeah, it's not. I mean there is uh there Yeah, it's not. I mean there is uh there is harmony to it but it part of the is harmony to it but it part of the is harmony to it but it part of the harmony is the violence. Yeah. It's just harmony is the violence. Yeah. It's just harmony is the violence. Yeah. It's just the reality it's um sex and violence.

the reality it's um sex and violence. the reality it's um sex and violence. Like I guess that's the thing about it Like I guess that's the thing about it Like I guess that's the thing about it though is like it has all the same though is like it has all the same though is like it has all the same components of humanity just almost you components of humanity just almost you components of humanity just almost you know like almost to a comical level. I know like almost to a comical level. I know like almost to a comical level. I mean the real comedy is the monkeys up mean the real comedy is the monkeys up mean the real comedy is the monkeys up in the trees. They're it's like it's in the trees. They're it's like it's in the trees. They're it's like it's like little humans and they're arguing like little humans and they're arguing like little humans and they're arguing and screaming at each other throwing and screaming at each other throwing and screaming at each other throwing stuff. getting into fights. It's like stuff. getting into fights. It's like stuff. getting into fights. It's like it's like reality TV but like more pure, it's like reality TV but like more pure, it's like reality TV but like more pure, more real, more distilled down to his more real, more distilled down to his more real, more distilled down to his fundamentals. Like we we are that, you fundamentals. Like we we are that, you fundamentals. Like we we are that, you know? Yeah. We we put on clothes these know? Yeah. We we put on clothes these know? Yeah. We we put on clothes these days and have fancy words that we say to days and have fancy words that we say to days and have fancy words that we say to each other and look all sexy on each other and look all sexy on each other and look all sexy on Instagram, but we're the same monkeys, Instagram, but we're the same monkeys, Instagram, but we're the same monkeys, apes. It's like the old lobsters, you apes. It's like the old lobsters, you apes. It's like the old lobsters, you know? know? know? But it really is true. But it really is true. But it really is true. like like uh we all we all yeah we're like like uh we all we all yeah we're like like uh we all we all yeah we're all on that same kind of same operating all on that same kind of same operating all on that same kind of same operating system in a way. Brother, this was a system in a way. Brother, this was a system in a way. Brother, this was a huge honor. I can't I I don't have the huge honor. I can't I I don't have the huge honor. I can't I I don't have the words to describe how incredible this words to describe how incredible this words to describe how incredible this was and I think uh it was just fun. It was and I think uh it was just fun. It was and I think uh it was just fun. It was really fun talking to you. Total was really fun talking to you. Total was really fun talking to you. Total honor to be able to come on here for me honor to be able to come on here for me honor to be able to come on here for me as well. And um especially just to get as well. And um especially just to get as well. And um especially just to get to meet you in real life and see like to meet you in real life and see like to meet you in real life and see like you know you are what I you are what I you know you are what I you are what I you know you are what I you are what I expected you to be like in a good way.

expected you to be like in a good way. expected you to be like in a good way. Like you know you just don't ever like Like you know you just don't ever like Like you know you just don't ever like Yeah. You're just you're a good dude. So Yeah. You're just you're a good dude. So Yeah. You're just you're a good dude. So I appreciate what you're doing. I got to I appreciate what you're doing. I got to I appreciate what you're doing. I got to show you the sex dungeon downstairs show you the sex dungeon downstairs show you the sex dungeon downstairs where I where I where I where I keep sex slaves. It's very where I keep sex slaves. It's very where I keep sex slaves. It's very different. No. Yeah man. All right. Time different. No. Yeah man. All right. Time different. No. Yeah man. All right. Time to wake up. Let's go back to to wake up. Let's go back to to wake up. Let's go back to reality. Thanks for listening to this reality. Thanks for listening to this reality. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Oliver Anthony. To conversation with Oliver Anthony. To conversation with Oliver Anthony. To support this podcast, please check out support this podcast, please check out support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And our sponsors in the description. And our sponsors in the description. And now, let me leave you with some words now, let me leave you with some words now, let me leave you with some words from George from George from George Orwell. Political language is designed Orwell. Political language is designed Orwell. Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder to make lies sound truthful and murder to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable and to give an appearance of respectable and to give an appearance of respectable and to give an appearance of solidity to pure solidity to pure solidity to pure wind. Thank you for listening and hope wind. Thank you for listening and hope wind. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.