Ed Barnhart: Maya, Aztec, Inca, and Lost Civilizations of South America | Lex Fridman Podcast #446

for the vast majority of human existence for the vast majority of human existence we've been nomadic and we've done these we've been nomadic and we've done these we've been nomadic and we've done these kind of wider or tighter nomatic circles kind of wider or tighter nomatic circles kind of wider or tighter nomatic circles depending on the geographic region but depending on the geographic region but depending on the geographic region but they'd move so once humans figured out they'd move so once humans figured out they'd move so once humans figured out how to stay in a place that's the how to stay in a place that's the how to stay in a place that's the initial trigger to what would become initial trigger to what would become initial trigger to what would become civilization I think you said Beauty and civilization I think you said Beauty and civilization I think you said Beauty and blood went hand inand for the Aztec what blood went hand inand for the Aztec what blood went hand inand for the Aztec what I meant by that is they were absolutely I meant by that is they were absolutely I meant by that is they were absolutely comfortable with human sacrifice and you comfortable with human sacrifice and you comfortable with human sacrifice and you know ripping people's hearts out this know ripping people's hearts out this know ripping people's hearts out this they had this this just you know they had this this just you know they had this this just you know grotesque violent bent but in the same grotesque violent bent but in the same grotesque violent bent but in the same way they also absolutely loved flower way they also absolutely loved flower way they also absolutely loved flower gardens and poetry and music and dance gardens and poetry and music and dance gardens and poetry and music and dance the same Aztec King who would order the the same Aztec King who would order the the same Aztec King who would order the hearts of a thousand people extracted hearts of a thousand people extracted hearts of a thousand people extracted also would stand up at dinner parties to also would stand up at dinner parties to also would stand up at dinner parties to recite his own poetry but they were recite his own poetry but they were recite his own poetry but they were really just surgical about it they'd use really just surgical about it they'd use really just surgical about it they'd use a thick obsidian knife where they could a thick obsidian knife where they could a thick obsidian knife where they could just break the ribs right along the just break the ribs right along the just break the ribs right along the sternum and then push the sternum down sternum and then push the sternum down sternum and then push the sternum down Pull up and just while the person was Pull up and just while the person was Pull up and just while the person was alive yep while the person was alive the following is a conversation alive the following is a conversation with Ed Barnhart an archaeologist with Ed Barnhart an archaeologist with Ed Barnhart an archaeologist specializing in ancient civilizations of specializing in ancient civilizations of specializing in ancient civilizations of South America meso Amica and North South America meso Amica and North South America meso Amica and North America this is Alex Freedman podcast to America this is Alex Freedman podcast to America this is Alex Freedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends

in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends here's Ed here's Ed here's Ed Barnhart do you think there are lost Barnhart do you think there are lost Barnhart do you think there are lost civilizations in the history of humans civilizations in the history of humans civilizations in the history of humans on Earth which we don't know anything on Earth which we don't know anything on Earth which we don't know anything about yes I do and in fact you know we about yes I do and in fact you know we about yes I do and in fact you know we we have found some civilizations that we we have found some civilizations that we we have found some civilizations that we had no idea about just in my lifetime I had no idea about just in my lifetime I had no idea about just in my lifetime I mean we've got gockley Tey and we've got mean we've got gockley Tey and we've got mean we've got gockley Tey and we've got the stuff that's going on in the the stuff that's going on in the the stuff that's going on in the Amazon and there are some other less Amazon and there are some other less Amazon and there are some other less startling things that we had no idea startling things that we had no idea startling things that we had no idea existed and push our dates back and give existed and push our dates back and give existed and push our dates back and give us whole new civilizations we had no us whole new civilizations we had no us whole new civilizations we had no idea about so yeah it's happened and I idea about so yeah it's happened and I idea about so yeah it's happened and I think it'll happen again do you think think it'll happen again do you think think it'll happen again do you think there's a lost civilization in the there's a lost civilization in the there's a lost civilization in the Amazon that uh the Amazon jungle has Amazon that uh the Amazon jungle has Amazon that uh the Amazon jungle has eaten up or is hiding the evidence of eaten up or is hiding the evidence of eaten up or is hiding the evidence of yes I do and I uh we're we're beginning yes I do and I uh we're we're beginning yes I do and I uh we're we're beginning to find it there are these huge what we to find it there are these huge what we to find it there are these huge what we call geoglyphs these Mound groups that call geoglyphs these Mound groups that call geoglyphs these Mound groups that are in geometric patterns I think that are in geometric patterns I think that are in geometric patterns I think that the average Joe when they hear the word the average Joe when they hear the word the average Joe when they hear the word civilization they think of something civilization they think of something civilization they think of something that looks like Rome and I don't think that looks like Rome and I don't think that looks like Rome and I don't think we're ever going to find anything that we're ever going to find anything that we're ever going to find anything that looks like Rome in the Amazon I think a looks like Rome in the Amazon I think a looks like Rome in the Amazon I think a lot of things there I mean wherever you lot of things there I mean wherever you lot of things there I mean wherever you are on the planet you use your natural are on the planet you use your natural are on the planet you use your natural resources and in the Amazon there's not resources and in the Amazon there's not resources and in the Amazon there's not a whole lot of stone what stone is there a whole lot of stone what stone is there a whole lot of stone what stone is there is deep deep deep so a lot of their is deep deep deep so a lot of their is deep deep deep so a lot of their things were built out of dirt and trees

things were built out of dirt and trees things were built out of dirt and trees and feathers and textiles but is it and feathers and textiles but is it and feathers and textiles but is it possible that all that land that's not possible that all that land that's not possible that all that land that's not covered by trees is actually hiding covered by trees is actually hiding covered by trees is actually hiding stone for example some architecture some stone for example some architecture some stone for example some architecture some things are just very difficult to find things are just very difficult to find things are just very difficult to find for for for archaeologists I think at the base of archaeologists I think at the base of archaeologists I think at the base of the Andes where the Amazon connects to the Andes where the Amazon connects to the Andes where the Amazon connects to the Andes there's a lot of potential the Andes there's a lot of potential the Andes there's a lot of potential there cuz that's where the stone there cuz that's where the stone there cuz that's where the stone actually starts poking up when you get actually starts poking up when you get actually starts poking up when you get down into the Basin stone is meters and down into the Basin stone is meters and down into the Basin stone is meters and meters under the ground except for a a meters under the ground except for a a meters under the ground except for a a stray Cliff here and there where the stray Cliff here and there where the stray Cliff here and there where the River Run dug deep and even then only in River Run dug deep and even then only in River Run dug deep and even then only in the dry season cuz that River Rises like the dry season cuz that River Rises like the dry season cuz that River Rises like over a 100 feet every year that's one of over a 100 feet every year that's one of over a 100 feet every year that's one of the things having visited that area uh the things having visited that area uh the things having visited that area uh just interacting with waterfalls and just interacting with waterfalls and just interacting with waterfalls and seeing the water I was uh humbled by the seeing the water I was uh humbled by the seeing the water I was uh humbled by the power of water to shape Landscapes and power of water to shape Landscapes and power of water to shape Landscapes and probably erase history in the context probably erase history in the context probably erase history in the context that we're talking about of that we're talking about of that we're talking about of civilizations is water can just make civilizations is water can just make civilizations is water can just make everything disappear over a period of everything disappear over a period of everything disappear over a period of centuries and Millennia and so if there centuries and Millennia and so if there centuries and Millennia and so if there something existed a very long time ago something existed a very long time ago something existed a very long time ago thousands of years ago it it's it's very thousands of years ago it it's it's very thousands of years ago it it's it's very possible it was just eaten up by possible it was just eaten up by possible it was just eaten up by Nature absolutely in fact in my opinion Nature absolutely in fact in my opinion Nature absolutely in fact in my opinion that's almost a certainty in a lot of that's almost a certainty in a lot of that's almost a certainty in a lot of places yeah uh you know the Grand Canyon places yeah uh you know the Grand Canyon places yeah uh you know the Grand Canyon was dug by water there's this wimpy was dug by water there's this wimpy was dug by water there's this wimpy Little River in it right now and you Little River in it right now and you Little River in it right now and you can't possibly imagine that it dug that can't possibly imagine that it dug that can't possibly imagine that it dug that but it did the power of nature and

but it did the power of nature and but it did the power of nature and geology is really kind of magical and geology is really kind of magical and geology is really kind of magical and when it comes to you know ancient when it comes to you know ancient when it comes to you know ancient civilizations that could be from a long civilizations that could be from a long civilizations that could be from a long time ago there's probably a lot that are time ago there's probably a lot that are time ago there's probably a lot that are just under the ocean and just the wave just under the ocean and just the wave just under the ocean and just the wave action have destroyed them and what they action have destroyed them and what they action have destroyed them and what they haven't destroyed buried haven't destroyed buried haven't destroyed buried deep under the ocean so you think deep under the ocean so you think deep under the ocean so you think Atlantis ever Atlantis ever Atlantis ever existed I don't think that Atlantis existed I don't think that Atlantis existed I don't think that Atlantis existed I do think it was one of Plato's existed I do think it was one of Plato's existed I do think it was one of Plato's many parables talking about you know many parables talking about you know many parables talking about you know putting it in an interesting story as a putting it in an interesting story as a putting it in an interesting story as a teaching device in his school if one did teaching device in his school if one did teaching device in his school if one did exist or a shadow of it my money would exist or a shadow of it my money would exist or a shadow of it my money would be on Acer aceri is what's left of a big be on Acer aceri is what's left of a big be on Acer aceri is what's left of a big city that was on the island of Santorini city that was on the island of Santorini city that was on the island of Santorini and when their volcano blew up it blew and when their volcano blew up it blew and when their volcano blew up it blew up most of the city and shot chunks of up most of the city and shot chunks of up most of the city and shot chunks of it so fast that 70 Mi away in cre there it so fast that 70 Mi away in cre there it so fast that 70 Mi away in cre there are chunks of Santorini in their Cliff are chunks of Santorini in their Cliff are chunks of Santorini in their Cliff so it blasted what was ever there but so it blasted what was ever there but so it blasted what was ever there but what's left on the side of the crater what's left on the side of the crater what's left on the side of the crater aceri is strangely Advanced for its age aceri is strangely Advanced for its age aceri is strangely Advanced for its age and so if there's anything that's a and so if there's anything that's a and so if there's anything that's a model for Atlantis as Plato explained it model for Atlantis as Plato explained it model for Atlantis as Plato explained it it's at criteria it's at criteria it's at criteria so acary the ancient Greek city so it so acary the ancient Greek city so it so acary the ancient Greek city so it says the settlement was destroyed in the says the settlement was destroyed in the says the settlement was destroyed in the thein eruption sometime in the 16th thein eruption sometime in the 16th thein eruption sometime in the 16th century BCE and buried in volcanic ash

century BCE and buried in volcanic ash century BCE and buried in volcanic ash which preserved the remains of the which preserved the remains of the which preserved the remains of the Fresco and many objects in artworks so Fresco and many objects in artworks so Fresco and many objects in artworks so we don't know how advanced That we don't know how advanced That we don't know how advanced That civilization was no but we can walk civilization was no but we can walk civilization was no but we can walk around the ruins and see that it's got around the ruins and see that it's got around the ruins and see that it's got streets it's got Plumbing it's got streets it's got Plumbing it's got streets it's got Plumbing it's got little sconces for uh for torches h little sconces for uh for torches h little sconces for uh for torches h night it was a vibrant City with uh with night it was a vibrant City with uh with night it was a vibrant City with uh with a lot of especially in terms of a lot of especially in terms of a lot of especially in terms of Hydraulic Engineering it's it's very Hydraulic Engineering it's it's very Hydraulic Engineering it's it's very Advanced for being 3,500 years old so if Advanced for being 3,500 years old so if Advanced for being 3,500 years old so if you check out here's an image of the uh you check out here's an image of the uh you check out here's an image of the uh excavation sh what a project it's an excavation sh what a project it's an excavation sh what a project it's an amazing place and you can tell that it's amazing place and you can tell that it's amazing place and you can tell that it's just part of it because it it's pretty just part of it because it it's pretty just part of it because it it's pretty close to where the crater began so the close to where the crater began so the close to where the crater began so the city itself was probably much larger so city itself was probably much larger so city itself was probably much larger so in this case the a lot of evidence but in this case the a lot of evidence but in this case the a lot of evidence but like we said there could be there could like we said there could be there could like we said there could be there could be civilizations that there is no there be civilizations that there is no there be civilizations that there is no there is very little evidence of because of is very little evidence of because of is very little evidence of because of the natural environment that destroys the natural environment that destroys the natural environment that destroys all the evidence right and I think Acer all the evidence right and I think Acer all the evidence right and I think Acer is actually a great example of that is actually a great example of that is actually a great example of that because here we have the side that did because here we have the side that did because here we have the side that did preserve that looks amazing but we know preserve that looks amazing but we know preserve that looks amazing but we know there was more of the city that was there was more of the city that was there was more of the city that was completely obliterated it was shot completely obliterated it was shot completely obliterated it was shot chunks of that City are probably in the chunks of that City are probably in the chunks of that City are probably in the walls of cre 70 Mi away and uh you know walls of cre 70 Mi away and uh you know walls of cre 70 Mi away and uh you know Plato says that it it sunk it was on an Plato says that it it sunk it was on an Plato says that it it sunk it was on an island and it sunk well that's exactly island and it sunk well that's exactly island and it sunk well that's exactly what happened to aceri you think this is what happened to aceri you think this is what happened to aceri you think this is what Plato was referring to if it does what Plato was referring to if it does what Plato was referring to if it does exist at least the model of it I think

exist at least the model of it I think exist at least the model of it I think this is probably what he was talking this is probably what he was talking this is probably what he was talking about and there could be other about and there could be other about and there could be other civilizations of which Plato has never civilizations of which Plato has never civilizations of which Plato has never written right that we have no record of written right that we have no record of written right that we have no record of and um it's humbling to think that and um it's humbling to think that and um it's humbling to think that entire entire entire civilizations with all the dreams the civilizations with all the dreams the civilizations with all the dreams the hope the technological innovation the hope the technological innovation the hope the technological innovation the the wars the conflicts the the political the wars the conflicts the the political the wars the conflicts the the political tensions all of that uh the social tensions all of that uh the social tensions all of that uh the social interactions the hierarchies all that interactions the hierarchies all that interactions the hierarchies all that the art can be just destroyed like that the art can be just destroyed like that the art can be just destroyed like that and forgotten completely lost to ancient and forgotten completely lost to ancient and forgotten completely lost to ancient history I reflect upon that often as an history I reflect upon that often as an history I reflect upon that often as an archaeologist I think about the this archaeologist I think about the this archaeologist I think about the this great country that I live in and love great country that I live in and love great country that I live in and love and all the things we've achieved but and all the things we've achieved but and all the things we've achieved but you know we're we're a baby historically you know we're we're a baby historically you know we're we're a baby historically speaking we've been around 200 years speaking we've been around 200 years speaking we've been around 200 years heck a lot of the Cities I study in uh heck a lot of the Cities I study in uh heck a lot of the Cities I study in uh Central and South America they had a run Central and South America they had a run Central and South America they had a run of you know 800 a th000 years and now of you know 800 a th000 years and now of you know 800 a th000 years and now they're ruins but we're we're barely they're ruins but we're we're barely they're ruins but we're we're barely getting started in terms of historical getting started in terms of historical getting started in terms of historical civilizations so humans Homo sapiens civilizations so humans Homo sapiens civilizations so humans Homo sapiens evolved uh but they didn't start evolved uh but they didn't start evolved uh but they didn't start civilizations right away there's a long civilizations right away there's a long civilizations right away there's a long period of time when they did not form period of time when they did not form period of time when they did not form these complex societies so how did we these complex societies so how did we these complex societies so how did we let's say 300,000 years ago in Africa let's say 300,000 years ago in Africa let's say 300,000 years ago in Africa actually go from there to creating actually go from there to creating actually go from there to creating civilizations I think that a lot civilizations I think that a lot civilizations I think that a lot of human uh Evolution had to do with uh of human uh Evolution had to do with uh of human uh Evolution had to do with uh the the pressures that their environment

the the pressures that their environment the the pressures that their environment put upon them and you know a lot of put upon them and you know a lot of put upon them and you know a lot of things start changing right around things start changing right around things start changing right around 12,000 years ago and that's when you 12,000 years ago and that's when you 12,000 years ago and that's when you know our last ice age really ended I know our last ice age really ended I know our last ice age really ended I think there was a whole lot of things think there was a whole lot of things think there was a whole lot of things that just pressured them into especially that just pressured them into especially that just pressured them into especially finding new ways of subsistence here in finding new ways of subsistence here in finding new ways of subsistence here in the Americas a huge thing that happened the Americas a huge thing that happened the Americas a huge thing that happened was all the meapa went away when the was all the meapa went away when the was all the meapa went away when the climate changed enough the the mammoths climate changed enough the the mammoths climate changed enough the the mammoths died out and the Bison died out and died out and the Bison died out and died out and the Bison died out and there was just uh they had to come up there was just uh they had to come up there was just uh they had to come up with different ways of doing things we with different ways of doing things we with different ways of doing things we were hunters and gatherers and we had were hunters and gatherers and we had were hunters and gatherers and we had things we got from hunting and we got things we got from hunting and we got things we got from hunting and we got things we got from Gathering and in the things we got from Gathering and in the things we got from Gathering and in the Americas when the things that they were Americas when the things that they were Americas when the things that they were using to hunting went away and they had using to hunting went away and they had using to hunting went away and they had to make do with rabbits they you know to make do with rabbits they you know to make do with rabbits they you know the the Gathering started to be a much the the Gathering started to be a much the the Gathering started to be a much more important thing and I think that more important thing and I think that more important thing and I think that led to figuring out hey we could led to figuring out hey we could led to figuring out hey we could actually grow certain things and Gardens actually grow certain things and Gardens actually grow certain things and Gardens turned into crops turned into intensive turned into crops turned into intensive turned into crops turned into intensive crops and then people were allowed to crops and then people were allowed to crops and then people were allowed to gather in bigger groups and survive in a gather in bigger groups and survive in a gather in bigger groups and survive in a single area they didn't have to roam single area they didn't have to roam single area they didn't have to roam around anymore and that's where we get around anymore and that's where we get around anymore and that's where we get uh the first sent uh the first sent uh the first sent communities which means they they stayed communities which means they they stayed communities which means they they stayed in the same place all year long for the in the same place all year long for the in the same place all year long for the vast majority of human existence we've vast majority of human existence we've vast majority of human existence we've been nomadic and we've done these kind been nomadic and we've done these kind been nomadic and we've done these kind of wider or tighter nomatic circles

of wider or tighter nomatic circles of wider or tighter nomatic circles depending on the geographic region where depending on the geographic region where depending on the geographic region where they'd know okay you know in the they'd know okay you know in the they'd know okay you know in the mountains we in the we'll be in the mountains we in the we'll be in the mountains we in the we'll be in the summer in the mountains CU there's summer in the mountains CU there's summer in the mountains CU there's berries and things and then in the berries and things and then in the berries and things and then in the winter we'll be down here and we'll hunt winter we'll be down here and we'll hunt winter we'll be down here and we'll hunt but they'd move so once humans figure but they'd move so once humans figure but they'd move so once humans figure out how to stay in a place I think there out how to stay in a place I think there out how to stay in a place I think there that's the initial trigger to what would that's the initial trigger to what would that's the initial trigger to what would become civilization what do you think is become civilization what do you think is become civilization what do you think is uh there's a lot of questions I want to uh there's a lot of questions I want to uh there's a lot of questions I want to ask here what what do you think is the ask here what what do you think is the ask here what what do you think is the motivation for societies is it the the motivation for societies is it the the motivation for societies is it the the character or the stick so you said like character or the stick so you said like character or the stick so you said like is it like when resources run out when is it like when resources run out when is it like when resources run out when the old way of life is no longer feeding the old way of life is no longer feeding the old way of life is no longer feeding everybody then you have to figure stuff everybody then you have to figure stuff everybody then you have to figure stuff out or is it more the carrot of like out or is it more the carrot of like out or is it more the carrot of like there's always this kind of human spirit there's always this kind of human spirit there's always this kind of human spirit that wants to explore that wants to uh that wants to explore that wants to uh that wants to explore that wants to uh maybe impress the rest of the village or maybe impress the rest of the village or maybe impress the rest of the village or something like this with the the new something like this with the the new something like this with the the new discovery they made and venturing out discovery they made and venturing out discovery they made and venturing out and coming out with with different ideas and coming out with with different ideas and coming out with with different ideas or of technological innovation let's or of technological innovation let's or of technological innovation let's call it well you know I I have an call it well you know I I have an call it well you know I I have an Explorer's heart so I'm kind of uh you Explorer's heart so I'm kind of uh you Explorer's heart so I'm kind of uh you know bi I'm biased right you know I I do know bi I'm biased right you know I I do know bi I'm biased right you know I I do think that that we have an inate desire think that that we have an inate desire think that that we have an inate desire to see what's on the horizon yeah and to to see what's on the horizon yeah and to to see what's on the horizon yeah and to impress other people with our impress other people with our impress other people with our achievements things like that that I achievements things like that that I achievements things like that that I we're we're social beings um that's that we're we're social beings um that's that we're we're social beings um that's that that's really the edge that humans have that's really the edge that humans have that's really the edge that humans have is our ability to work together so I I is our ability to work together so I I is our ability to work together so I I think that it's much more the carrot think that it's much more the carrot think that it's much more the carrot than the stick when things get ugly the than the stick when things get ugly the than the stick when things get ugly the stick comes out but usually the carrot

stick comes out but usually the carrot stick comes out but usually the carrot does the job the really interesting does the job the really interesting does the job the really interesting story is how the first people came to story is how the first people came to story is how the first people came to the the the Americas I mean to me that's pretty Americas I mean to me that's pretty Americas I mean to me that's pretty gangster to go from Asia all the way gangster to go from Asia all the way gangster to go from Asia all the way potentially during the Ice Age or maybe potentially during the Ice Age or maybe potentially during the Ice Age or maybe at the end of the ice age or during that at the end of the ice age or during that at the end of the ice age or during that whole period not knowing what the world whole period not knowing what the world whole period not knowing what the world looks like going into the unknown can looks like going into the unknown can looks like going into the unknown can you talk to that process how did the you talk to that process how did the you talk to that process how did the first people come to the Americas well first people come to the Americas well first people come to the Americas well first off I agree with you that was first off I agree with you that was first off I agree with you that was pretty gangster I mean that's that's pretty gangster I mean that's that's pretty gangster I mean that's that's that's a hard place to live I I listened that's a hard place to live I I listened that's a hard place to live I I listened to some of your podcast is that guy uh to some of your podcast is that guy uh to some of your podcast is that guy uh Jordan Jonas he cut the mustard but I I Jordan Jonas he cut the mustard but I I Jordan Jonas he cut the mustard but I I wouldn't have made it Crossing there wouldn't have made it Crossing there wouldn't have made it Crossing there well there you go like the fact that well there you go like the fact that well there you go like the fact that those guys exist that somebody like those guys exist that somebody like those guys exist that somebody like Jordan Jonas exist people that uh Jordan Jonas exist people that uh Jordan Jonas exist people that uh survive and thrive in these harsh survive and thrive in these harsh survive and thrive in these harsh conditions that that's an indication conditions that that's an indication conditions that that's an indication that it's possible but yeah so when when that it's possible but yeah so when when that it's possible but yeah so when when do you think and how did the first do you think and how did the first do you think and how did the first people people people come the traditional theories are still come the traditional theories are still come the traditional theories are still somewhat valid or at least you know on somewhat valid or at least you know on somewhat valid or at least you know on the table that when that land bridge the table that when that land bridge the table that when that land bridge occurred that nomadic Hunters just occurred that nomadic Hunters just occurred that nomadic Hunters just followed the game like they always had followed the game like they always had followed the game like they always had and the game went across there cuz there and the game went across there cuz there and the game went across there cuz there was no barrier and they followed them was no barrier and they followed them was no barrier and they followed them across the thing that has changed is how across the thing that has changed is how across the thing that has changed is how early that happened DNA has been a total early that happened DNA has been a total early that happened DNA has been a total GameChanger for archaeology you know we GameChanger for archaeology you know we GameChanger for archaeology you know we we get all these uh evolutionary tracks we get all these uh evolutionary tracks we get all these uh evolutionary tracks that we could never see before when I

that we could never see before when I that we could never see before when I was a young archaeologist I had I would was a young archaeologist I had I would was a young archaeologist I had I would have never dreamed we'd have the have never dreamed we'd have the have never dreamed we'd have the information we have now and that information we have now and that information we have now and that information a lot of it's coming out of information a lot of it's coming out of information a lot of it's coming out of uh Texas A&M we see the traditional like uh Texas A&M we see the traditional like uh Texas A&M we see the traditional like 12,500 years ago that there was a 12,500 years ago that there was a 12,500 years ago that there was a migration but now we're seeing one migration but now we're seeing one migration but now we're seeing one that's almost certainly happening closer that's almost certainly happening closer that's almost certainly happening closer to 30,000 years ago and to 30,000 years ago and to 30,000 years ago and now the thing that seems like Madness now the thing that seems like Madness now the thing that seems like Madness but might be true is that it could have but might be true is that it could have but might be true is that it could have been as early as 60 a lot of the DNA been as early as 60 a lot of the DNA been as early as 60 a lot of the DNA things are suggesting that the very things are suggesting that the very things are suggesting that the very first migration could have come across first migration could have come across first migration could have come across as early as 60 and when I was a younger as early as 60 and when I was a younger as early as 60 and when I was a younger archaeologist it was heresy to go beyond archaeologist it was heresy to go beyond archaeologist it was heresy to go beyond this this this 12,500 you were a wacko if you said that 12,500 you were a wacko if you said that 12,500 you were a wacko if you said that but now it's really very clear that they but now it's really very clear that they but now it's really very clear that they came over at least by 30,000 and the came over at least by 30,000 and the came over at least by 30,000 and the Bridge opened and closed and opened and Bridge opened and closed and opened and Bridge opened and closed and opened and closed that's during the Ice Age right I mean that's crazy right that's right I mean that's crazy right that's that is crazy yeah I mean you know they that is crazy yeah I mean you know they that is crazy yeah I mean you know they didn't roll in and immediately make New didn't roll in and immediately make New didn't roll in and immediately make New York but there were people and there York but there were people and there York but there were people and there were definitely not people here before were definitely not people here before were definitely not people here before that which is fascinating the uh the that which is fascinating the uh the that which is fascinating the uh the when when the when the bridge when when the when the bridge when when the when the bridge closed DNA mutated and so we have closed DNA mutated and so we have closed DNA mutated and so we have specific kinds of Hao groups that are specific kinds of Hao groups that are specific kinds of Hao groups that are here in the Americas that don't exist here in the Americas that don't exist here in the Americas that don't exist otherwise and that same Hao group game otherwise and that same Hao group game otherwise and that same Hao group game has been showing us more and more that

has been showing us more and more that has been showing us more and more that people came across Siberia that it's not people came across Siberia that it's not people came across Siberia that it's not Africa it's not Western Europe those are Africa it's not Western Europe those are Africa it's not Western Europe those are still you know they've become kind of still you know they've become kind of still you know they've become kind of Fringe theories but they're not totally Fringe theories but they're not totally Fringe theories but they're not totally eradicated I have DNA is a developing science as well and DNA is a developing science as well and I think we all need to keep that in mind I think we all need to keep that in mind I think we all need to keep that in mind that it's not like they just cracked the that it's not like they just cracked the that it's not like they just cracked the code and now we know all the answers and code and now we know all the answers and code and now we know all the answers and sometimes like in any science a sometimes like in any science a sometimes like in any science a breakthrough puts us two two steps breakthrough puts us two two steps breakthrough puts us two two steps backwards not forwards so I think you backwards not forwards so I think you backwards not forwards so I think you know we don't need to have too much know we don't need to have too much know we don't need to have too much faith in the models that are now being faith in the models that are now being faith in the models that are now being created through DNA but they are created through DNA but they are created through DNA but they are pointing in the direction of every body pointing in the direction of every body pointing in the direction of every body came across from Siberia that all Native came across from Siberia that all Native came across from Siberia that all Native American people are of Asiatic descent American people are of Asiatic descent American people are of Asiatic descent do you think it was a gradual process if do you think it was a gradual process if do you think it was a gradual process if it's like 30 to 60,000 years ago was it it's like 30 to 60,000 years ago was it it's like 30 to 60,000 years ago was it just gradual movement of these nomatic just gradual movement of these nomatic just gradual movement of these nomatic tribes as they follow the animals or was tribes as they follow the animals or was tribes as they follow the animals or was it it it like one explorer that pushed the the like one explorer that pushed the the like one explorer that pushed the the tribe to just go go go go and go across tribe to just go go go go and go across tribe to just go go go go and go across maybe across a 100 years travel all the maybe across a 100 years travel all the maybe across a 100 years travel all the way uh across maybe into North America way uh across maybe into North America way uh across maybe into North America into North North America where Canada is into North North America where Canada is into North North America where Canada is now and then sort of like big leaps in now and then sort of like big leaps in now and then sort of like big leaps in movement versus gradual movement versus gradual movement versus gradual movement I think it was big leaps and movement I think it was big leaps and movement I think it was big leaps and now this is just you know uh mostly

now this is just you know uh mostly now this is just you know uh mostly guess I'll I'll admit but I think that guess I'll I'll admit but I think that guess I'll I'll admit but I think that it much in the way that a lot of our it much in the way that a lot of our it much in the way that a lot of our evolutionary models talk about evolutionary models talk about evolutionary models talk about punctuated equilibrium that there are punctuated equilibrium that there are punctuated equilibrium that there are big moments of change and then it big moments of change and then it big moments of change and then it settles out into a more uh slow and settles out into a more uh slow and settles out into a more uh slow and steady pattern and then something big steady pattern and then something big steady pattern and then something big will happen again I do think that uh the will happen again I do think that uh the will happen again I do think that uh the early people went as far as they could early people went as far as they could early people went as far as they could go and there were certain colonies that go and there were certain colonies that go and there were certain colonies that just got isolated for thousands of years just got isolated for thousands of years just got isolated for thousands of years one of the fascinating things that DNA one of the fascinating things that DNA one of the fascinating things that DNA is showing us which actually blood types is showing us which actually blood types is showing us which actually blood types were showing us way before that is that were showing us way before that is that were showing us way before that is that the oldest people people in the Americas the oldest people people in the Americas the oldest people people in the Americas are in South America the ones that are are in South America the ones that are are in South America the ones that are uh that got separated early and didn't uh that got separated early and didn't uh that got separated early and didn't mix their DNA like the people in the mix their DNA like the people in the mix their DNA like the people in the Amazon most of those guys have uh O Amazon most of those guys have uh O Amazon most of those guys have uh O blood type and their Hao Group D which blood type and their Hao Group D which blood type and their Hao Group D which is the oldest one that entered the the is the oldest one that entered the the is the oldest one that entered the the us and what are they doing down there if us and what are they doing down there if us and what are they doing down there if uh I do believe they came across the uh I do believe they came across the uh I do believe they came across the bearing straight I don't think it's very bearing straight I don't think it's very bearing straight I don't think it's very we have no no real evidence to say they we have no no real evidence to say they we have no no real evidence to say they they came in Mass they came in Mass they came in Mass across uh Oceania so they made it across uh Oceania so they made it across uh Oceania so they made it probably by boat along the coast all the probably by boat along the coast all the probably by boat along the coast all the way to South America so there's some way to South America so there's some way to South America so there's some kind of cultural engine that drove them kind of cultural engine that drove them kind of cultural engine that drove them to explore so if you had to bet all your to explore so if you had to bet all your to explore so if you had to bet all your money it happened like tens of thousands

money it happened like tens of thousands money it happened like tens of thousands of years ago but in a very rapid Pace of years ago but in a very rapid Pace of years ago but in a very rapid Pace there's these explorers they went all there's these explorers they went all there's these explorers they went all the way to South America and there the way to South America and there the way to South America and there established their kind of more stable established their kind of more stable established their kind of more stable existence and from there South America existence and from there South America existence and from there South America meso America North America was kind of meso America North America was kind of meso America North America was kind of gradually expanded into that area I gradually expanded into that area I gradually expanded into that area I think the next waves came down and did think the next waves came down and did think the next waves came down and did North America and Central America and North America and Central America and North America and Central America and the very first wave made it all the way the very first wave made it all the way the very first wave made it all the way down to South America and got isolated down to South America and got isolated down to South America and got isolated there and then mixed in with the next there and then mixed in with the next there and then mixed in with the next groups that came that's fascinating kind groups that came that's fascinating kind groups that came that's fascinating kind of like there's a there's an interesting of like there's a there's an interesting of like there's a there's an interesting correlate in uh uh in Europe where today correlate in uh uh in Europe where today correlate in uh uh in Europe where today everybody feels like uh Celtic people everybody feels like uh Celtic people everybody feels like uh Celtic people are from Ireland but actually Celtic are from Ireland but actually Celtic are from Ireland but actually Celtic people started in Eastern Europe and it people started in Eastern Europe and it people started in Eastern Europe and it was the entire area and when Rome kind was the entire area and when Rome kind was the entire area and when Rome kind of swept everything and and Rome was now of swept everything and and Rome was now of swept everything and and Rome was now the the ruler of the day it was only the the ruler of the day it was only the the ruler of the day it was only that far edge of the Celtic World that far edge of the Celtic World that far edge of the Celtic World Ireland that they were like ah we're Ireland that they were like ah we're Ireland that they were like ah we're we're not not going to mess with those we're not not going to mess with those we're not not going to mess with those guys on that island we'll leave them be guys on that island we'll leave them be guys on that island we'll leave them be so now it looks like that's the heart of so now it looks like that's the heart of so now it looks like that's the heart of Celtic tradition but actually it's The Celtic tradition but actually it's The Celtic tradition but actually it's The Fringe so if it if it is 60,000 years Fringe so if it if it is 60,000 years Fringe so if it if it is 60,000 years ago these are really early humans yeah ago these are really early humans yeah ago these are really early humans yeah and there were consistent things that and there were consistent things that and there were consistent things that have been coming out for decades about have been coming out for decades about have been coming out for decades about uh very old carbon 14 dates in the

uh very old carbon 14 dates in the uh very old carbon 14 dates in the Amazon and in the Andes area that Amazon and in the Andes area that Amazon and in the Andes area that everybody just dismissed is no you everybody just dismissed is no you everybody just dismissed is no you didn't get it date of 40,000 years but I didn't get it date of 40,000 years but I didn't get it date of 40,000 years but I think we're going to come back around to think we're going to come back around to think we're going to come back around to start readdressing some of these based start readdressing some of these based start readdressing some of these based on new evidence at hand and that's the on new evidence at hand and that's the on new evidence at hand and that's the interesting thing is you know the early interesting thing is you know the early interesting thing is you know the early humans spread throughout the world and humans spread throughout the world and humans spread throughout the world and then like you said perhaps have gotten then like you said perhaps have gotten then like you said perhaps have gotten isolated and then civilizations sprung isolated and then civilizations sprung isolated and then civilizations sprung from there and they all have similar from there and they all have similar from there and they all have similar elements even though they were elements even though they were elements even though they were isolated that's really interesting isolated that's really interesting isolated that's really interesting that's really interesting that there's that's really interesting that there's that's really interesting that there's multiple cradles of civilization multiple cradles of civilization multiple cradles of civilization just one like one good idea that those just one like one good idea that those just one like one good idea that those ideas naturally come up those structures ideas naturally come up those structures ideas naturally come up those structures naturally come naturally come naturally come up and I I wonder whether you know the up and I I wonder whether you know the up and I I wonder whether you know the similarities that all those cradles have similarities that all those cradles have similarities that all those cradles have it could be uh you know a shared much it could be uh you know a shared much it could be uh you know a shared much deeper past that they all have or it deeper past that they all have or it deeper past that they all have or it could be a more kind of Star Trek thing could be a more kind of Star Trek thing could be a more kind of Star Trek thing where uh you know Captain Kirk was where uh you know Captain Kirk was where uh you know Captain Kirk was always talking about the uh the the always talking about the uh the the always talking about the uh the the theory of parallel human development theory of parallel human development theory of parallel human development that humans Across the Universe go that humans Across the Universe go that humans Across the Universe go through certain stages of development through certain stages of development through certain stages of development and that that could be the answer to it and that that could be the answer to it and that that could be the answer to it which which one do you lean on which which which one do you lean on which which which one do you lean on which which one do you lean towards I think which one do you lean towards I think which one do you lean towards I think it's a case by casee thing well I think it's a case by casee thing well I think it's a case by casee thing well I think if we look globally I'd lean much more if we look globally I'd lean much more if we look globally I'd lean much more towards the human parallel development towards the human parallel development towards the human parallel development but if I look just to the Americas and but if I look just to the Americas and but if I look just to the Americas and we have a shorter time period where you

we have a shorter time period where you we have a shorter time period where you know the the things that become major know the the things that become major know the the things that become major civilizations now now I'll say you know civilizations now now I'll say you know civilizations now now I'll say you know up to 30,000 years ago which is still a up to 30,000 years ago which is still a up to 30,000 years ago which is still a blip in the time of of blip in the time of of blip in the time of of humans um I think that there were shared humans um I think that there were shared humans um I think that there were shared things that those people came over with things that those people came over with things that those people came over with from Asia and that as they got separated from Asia and that as they got separated from Asia and that as they got separated that they had core values that then that they had core values that then that they had core values that then turned into things like religion and uh turned into things like religion and uh turned into things like religion and uh cultural Customs that we can see I I'm a cultural Customs that we can see I I'm a cultural Customs that we can see I I'm a big proponent that there are uh big proponent that there are uh big proponent that there are uh commonalities in all the cultures of the commonalities in all the cultures of the commonalities in all the cultures of the Americas that lead back to and point to Americas that lead back to and point to Americas that lead back to and point to a a single distant origin you've spoken a a single distant origin you've spoken a a single distant origin you've spoken about the Lost cradle of civilization about the Lost cradle of civilization about the Lost cradle of civilization South South South America so uh South America is not often America so uh South America is not often America so uh South America is not often talked about as one of the cradles of talked about as one of the cradles of talked about as one of the cradles of civilization South America mes America civilization South America mes America civilization South America mes America can you explain well we have very early can you explain well we have very early can you explain well we have very early stuff in South America you're right I stuff in South America you're right I stuff in South America you're right I mean you know especially as uh uh as an mean you know especially as uh uh as an mean you know especially as uh uh as an American our country's so big and you American our country's so big and you American our country's so big and you know the we are so far removed from know the we are so far removed from know the we are so far removed from these places we don't even think about these places we don't even think about these places we don't even think about it but more and more we're seeing things it but more and more we're seeing things it but more and more we're seeing things that that predate the earliest stuff that that predate the earliest stuff that that predate the earliest stuff that we like to talk about like Egypt that we like to talk about like Egypt that we like to talk about like Egypt and and and Mesopotamia um there are things it's all Mesopotamia um there are things it's all Mesopotamia um there are things it's all on the Peruvian coast that we have these on the Peruvian coast that we have these on the Peruvian coast that we have these cradles of civilization someday we might cradles of civilization someday we might cradles of civilization someday we might start talking about the Amazon more and

start talking about the Amazon more and start talking about the Amazon more and more but right now what we've got are more but right now what we've got are more but right now what we've got are things that date back into the 3000s things that date back into the 3000s things that date back into the 3000s BCE along the coast of Peru and there BCE along the coast of Peru and there BCE along the coast of Peru and there are big stone-built pyramids and are big stone-built pyramids and are big stone-built pyramids and temples and they're they're amazingly temples and they're they're amazingly temples and they're they're amazingly isolated even now that we've found them isolated even now that we've found them isolated even now that we've found them uh some of them like Coral is one of the uh some of them like Coral is one of the uh some of them like Coral is one of the most famous ones just north of Lima most famous ones just north of Lima most famous ones just north of Lima we've known about it for a couple we've known about it for a couple we've known about it for a couple decades now how old it is but every time decades now how old it is but every time decades now how old it is but every time I visit there it's like I've visited the I visit there it's like I've visited the I visit there it's like I've visited the moon there's absolutely nobody there not moon there's absolutely nobody there not moon there's absolutely nobody there not for Miles I it's uh amazing how such an for Miles I it's uh amazing how such an for Miles I it's uh amazing how such an such a discovery was made and yet still such a discovery was made and yet still such a discovery was made and yet still nobody goes to see it it's not easy to nobody goes to see it it's not easy to nobody goes to see it it's not easy to get to so you think there's a bunch of get to so you think there's a bunch of get to so you think there's a bunch of locations like that some may not have locations like that some may not have locations like that some may not have been discovered in the Peru area oh been discovered in the Peru area oh been discovered in the Peru area oh there are so many Peru has tons that there are so many Peru has tons that there are so many Peru has tons that desert gets really ugly quick and it desert gets really ugly quick and it desert gets really ugly quick and it buries things completely there are so buries things completely there are so buries things completely there are so many pyramids out there that are still many pyramids out there that are still many pyramids out there that are still completely completely completely untouched you know when people hear the untouched you know when people hear the untouched you know when people hear the name pyramids they think of Egypt name pyramids they think of Egypt name pyramids they think of Egypt immediately but Egypt has got about 140 immediately but Egypt has got about 140 immediately but Egypt has got about 140 pyramids and we have pretty much found pyramids and we have pretty much found pyramids and we have pretty much found them all Peru has them all Peru has them all Peru has thousands thousands of pyramids and now thousands thousands of pyramids and now thousands thousands of pyramids and now they weren't built of uh a lot not all they weren't built of uh a lot not all they weren't built of uh a lot not all of them were built of stone some of them of them were built of stone some of them of them were built of stone some of them were Adobe bricks which have weathered were Adobe bricks which have weathered were Adobe bricks which have weathered terribly so now they don't look they're terribly so now they don't look they're terribly so now they don't look they're they're not exciting places to visit

they're not exciting places to visit they're not exciting places to visit today today today you know what's funny too you you know you know what's funny too you you know you know what's funny too you you know we started off talking about you know we started off talking about you know we started off talking about you know whether I think there's A Lost whether I think there's A Lost whether I think there's A Lost Civilization out there uh there are Civilization out there uh there are Civilization out there uh there are definitely things that definitely things that definitely things that are still to be discovered but there are are still to be discovered but there are are still to be discovered but there are some things that were discovered a some things that were discovered a some things that were discovered a hundred years ago and archaeologists or hundred years ago and archaeologists or hundred years ago and archaeologists or back then they they called themselves back then they they called themselves back then they they called themselves antiquarians just kind of passed over antiquarians just kind of passed over antiquarians just kind of passed over Corral was one of these sites because Corral was one of these sites because Corral was one of these sites because the the coast of Peru has some of those the the coast of Peru has some of those the the coast of Peru has some of those pyramids that were made by the moch are pyramids that were made by the moch are pyramids that were made by the moch are full of of gold and beautiful full of of gold and beautiful full of of gold and beautiful Ceramics and you know things that you Ceramics and you know things that you Ceramics and you know things that you can sell for big money but Corral was can sell for big money but Corral was can sell for big money but Corral was found a long time ago but the found a long time ago but the found a long time ago but the archaeologist was like ah no gold no archaeologist was like ah no gold no archaeologist was like ah no gold no Ceramics forget about it this place is Ceramics forget about it this place is Ceramics forget about it this place is no good we can't sell anything here and no good we can't sell anything here and no good we can't sell anything here and then about the 1970s or 80s somebody then about the 1970s or 80s somebody then about the 1970s or 80s somebody said hey no Ceramics is that older than said hey no Ceramics is that older than said hey no Ceramics is that older than the invention of ceramics we better the invention of ceramics we better the invention of ceramics we better go take another look at that place so go take another look at that place so go take another look at that place so what's the dating on Corral Coral I what's the dating on Corral Coral I what's the dating on Corral Coral I think starts at about 3200 BCE and it think starts at about 3200 BCE and it think starts at about 3200 BCE and it lasts as a major civilization with a lot lasts as a major civilization with a lot lasts as a major civilization with a lot of other cities around it uh until about of other cities around it uh until about of other cities around it uh until about 1,800 1,800 1,800 BC so what's the story behind like BC so what's the story behind like BC so what's the story behind like looking at some of these images what's looking at some of these images what's looking at some of these images what's the story about constructions like that the story about constructions like that the story about constructions like that what was the idea that thing isn't that what was the idea that thing isn't that what was the idea that thing isn't that amazing yeah oh that gosh I mean it

amazing yeah oh that gosh I mean it amazing yeah oh that gosh I mean it should be some sort of you know I'll be should be some sort of you know I'll be should be some sort of you know I'll be a flaky archaeologist like you know this a flaky archaeologist like you know this a flaky archaeologist like you know this is a this is a place where where rituals is a this is a place where where rituals is a this is a place where where rituals took place that's so many things we say took place that's so many things we say took place that's so many things we say are so just painfully vague and that's are so just painfully vague and that's are so just painfully vague and that's about you know what we got and a place about you know what we got and a place about you know what we got and a place like this I know the one we're looking like this I know the one we're looking like this I know the one we're looking at here I've been here a couple of times at here I've been here a couple of times at here I've been here a couple of times in the pyramid behind it the rubble's in the pyramid behind it the rubble's in the pyramid behind it the rubble's built in a way where the building won't built in a way where the building won't built in a way where the building won't Rock apart this is a very uh earthquake Rock apart this is a very uh earthquake Rock apart this is a very uh earthquake prone place but the building haven't prone place but the building haven't prone place but the building haven't fallen because they make these uh net fallen because they make these uh net fallen because they make these uh net baskets of rocks inside that all kind of baskets of rocks inside that all kind of baskets of rocks inside that all kind of Wiggle around and don't allow the Wiggle around and don't allow the Wiggle around and don't allow the building to fall down and inside these building to fall down and inside these building to fall down and inside these we've also found a couple of things that we've also found a couple of things that we've also found a couple of things that were uh babies that were human babies were uh babies that were human babies were uh babies that were human babies that were buried in there and I don't that were buried in there and I don't that were buried in there and I don't think there's a lot of people that see think there's a lot of people that see think there's a lot of people that see that and go oh look at that they were that and go oh look at that they were that and go oh look at that they were sacrificing babies these sacrificing babies these sacrificing babies these monsters I think a lot of the things monsters I think a lot of the things monsters I think a lot of the things that are interpreted as baby sacrifices that are interpreted as baby sacrifices that are interpreted as baby sacrifices Coral's evidence being one of them I Coral's evidence being one of them I Coral's evidence being one of them I think it's more about the the tragic think it's more about the the tragic think it's more about the the tragic nature of infant mortality in the past nature of infant mortality in the past nature of infant mortality in the past it was a lot more common there were it was a lot more common there were it was a lot more common there were cultures that didn't even really cultures that didn't even really cultures that didn't even really properly name their kid until they got properly name their kid until they got properly name their kid until they got to five because chances were they were to five because chances were they were to five because chances were they were going to die and so I think a lot of going to die and so I think a lot of going to die and so I think a lot of these babies that we find in these these babies that we find in these these babies that we find in these ceremonial contexts that are interpreted ceremonial contexts that are interpreted ceremonial contexts that are interpreted as sacrifices I think they're putting as sacrifices I think they're putting as sacrifices I think they're putting them in special places because they They

them in special places because they They them in special places because they They Mourn the death of their kids and it Mourn the death of their kids and it Mourn the death of their kids and it just happened a lot more frequently just happened a lot more frequently just happened a lot more frequently then one of the things you said that then one of the things you said that then one of the things you said that really surprised me is that pyramids really surprised me is that pyramids really surprised me is that pyramids were built in were built in were built in Peru possibly hundreds of years before Peru possibly hundreds of years before Peru possibly hundreds of years before they were built in Egypt is that true they were built in Egypt is that true they were built in Egypt is that true absolutely absolutely in fact there's absolutely absolutely in fact there's absolutely absolutely in fact there's crazy there's one that's now crazy there's one that's now crazy there's one that's now pushing uh 6,000 pushing uh 6,000 pushing uh 6,000 BCE like that's thousands of years BCE like that's thousands of years BCE like that's thousands of years before the stuff in Egypt and that one's before the stuff in Egypt and that one's before the stuff in Egypt and that one's called Waka Prieta and it was not a it called Waka Prieta and it was not a it called Waka Prieta and it was not a it was not an Egyptian pyramid it was but was not an Egyptian pyramid it was but was not an Egyptian pyramid it was but it was a pyramid and it was thousands of it was a pyramid and it was thousands of it was a pyramid and it was thousands of years years years before what do you think is the before what do you think is the before what do you think is the motivation to build a pyramid the fact motivation to build a pyramid the fact motivation to build a pyramid the fact that it can uh withstand the elements uh that it can uh withstand the elements uh that it can uh withstand the elements uh structurally that kind of thing is is it structurally that kind of thing is is it structurally that kind of thing is is it uh yeah why why do humans build pyramids uh yeah why why do humans build pyramids uh yeah why why do humans build pyramids and why do they build it and why do they build it and why do they build it in all kinds of different locations in in all kinds of different locations in in all kinds of different locations in the world well you know my my rude the world well you know my my rude the world well you know my my rude answer is is is is pretty boring really answer is is is is pretty boring really answer is is is is pretty boring really and a lot of people ask me why are there and a lot of people ask me why are there and a lot of people ask me why are there pyramids all over the planet how is that pyramids all over the planet how is that pyramids all over the planet how is that is that a coincidence I mean who yeah I is that a coincidence I mean who yeah I is that a coincidence I mean who yeah I think that uh when people wanted to think that uh when people wanted to think that uh when people wanted to build a big build a big build a big building without rebar or cement you end building without rebar or cement you end building without rebar or cement you end up building something with a fat base up building something with a fat base up building something with a fat base that goes up to a skinny top and that that goes up to a skinny top and that that goes up to a skinny top and that turns into a pyramid turns into a pyramid turns into a pyramid uh you know any kid who's playing with

uh you know any kid who's playing with uh you know any kid who's playing with blocks on the floor builds a couple blocks on the floor builds a couple blocks on the floor builds a couple towers and his brother knocks him down towers and his brother knocks him down towers and his brother knocks him down and if he wants one that's going to stay and if he wants one that's going to stay and if he wants one that's going to stay and be tall he ends up making something and be tall he ends up making something and be tall he ends up making something with a fat base and a and a tiny top and with a fat base and a and a tiny top and with a fat base and a and a tiny top and I think that uh you know building I think that uh you know building I think that uh you know building something big and tall together is one something big and tall together is one something big and tall together is one of those those human things like we of those those human things like we of those those human things like we built that that will be here after we're built that that will be here after we're built that that will be here after we're gone people remember who we were we are gone people remember who we were we are gone people remember who we were we are all if there's any human commonality all if there's any human commonality all if there's any human commonality it's it's fear of our own deaths and it's it's fear of our own deaths and it's it's fear of our own deaths and that we were nothing and no one will that we were nothing and no one will that we were nothing and no one will ever remember us I think that the first ever remember us I think that the first ever remember us I think that the first big monuments like that were probably uh big monuments like that were probably uh big monuments like that were probably uh a group of people saying we're going to a group of people saying we're going to a group of people saying we're going to do something that people will remember do something that people will remember do something that people will remember forever now that being said you remember forever now that being said you remember forever now that being said you remember we were just talking about Waka Prieta we were just talking about Waka Prieta we were just talking about Waka Prieta and this one that's almost 6,000 BC now and this one that's almost 6,000 BC now and this one that's almost 6,000 BC now is the first one that one's a funny case is the first one that one's a funny case is the first one that one's a funny case uh we just talked about all these lofty uh we just talked about all these lofty uh we just talked about all these lofty goals but actually I'm pretty sure that goals but actually I'm pretty sure that goals but actually I'm pretty sure that Waka peta's first pyramid was about Waka peta's first pyramid was about Waka peta's first pyramid was about capping a smelly pile of trash I think capping a smelly pile of trash I think capping a smelly pile of trash I think everybody piled up their trash in the everybody piled up their trash in the everybody piled up their trash in the middle of town yeah and it's stunk it's middle of town yeah and it's stunk it's middle of town yeah and it's stunk it's it's on the coast it's stunk like fish it's on the coast it's stunk like fish it's on the coast it's stunk like fish and somebody said if we just bury this and somebody said if we just bury this and somebody said if we just bury this thing with dirt it won't smell anymore thing with dirt it won't smell anymore thing with dirt it won't smell anymore and then it was a big Mound where people and then it was a big Mound where people and then it was a big Mound where people could get up and talk to everybody and could get up and talk to everybody and could get up and talk to everybody and then said well it's squishy you know if then said well it's squishy you know if then said well it's squishy you know if we if we cap it with Clay then it will we if we cap it with Clay then it will we if we cap it with Clay then it will really not smell I really think that the

really not smell I really think that the really not smell I really think that the very first pyramids in Peru were about very first pyramids in Peru were about very first pyramids in Peru were about trash trash trash management talk about plating huh yeah management talk about plating huh yeah management talk about plating huh yeah but then they probably saw it and they but then they probably saw it and they but then they probably saw it and they were impressed and humbled by the sort were impressed and humbled by the sort were impressed and humbled by the sort of the enormity of the construction and of the enormity of the construction and of the enormity of the construction and then they're like oh we should maybe the then they're like oh we should maybe the then they're like oh we should maybe the next guy thought maybe we should keep next guy thought maybe we should keep next guy thought maybe we should keep building these kinds of things yeah yeah building these kinds of things yeah yeah building these kinds of things yeah yeah in uh not not to jump ahead but in North in uh not not to jump ahead but in North in uh not not to jump ahead but in North America you know where they also made America you know where they also made America you know where they also made pyramids there's this interesting pyramids there's this interesting pyramids there's this interesting evolution evolution evolution where there were these piles of shells where there were these piles of shells where there were these piles of shells along rivers and along the coastlines along rivers and along the coastlines along rivers and along the coastlines people ate a lot of shells that was an people ate a lot of shells that was an people ate a lot of shells that was an easy thing to collect and eat so these easy thing to collect and eat so these easy thing to collect and eat so these piles of shells would be near piles of shells would be near piles of shells would be near communities and they probably became communities and they probably became communities and they probably became landmarks but eventually they started landmarks but eventually they started landmarks but eventually they started burying their dead inside those too burying their dead inside those too burying their dead inside those too probably again you know about stink and probably again you know about stink and probably again you know about stink and about you know well we don't want the about you know well we don't want the about you know well we don't want the dogs to eat them maybe we put them in dogs to eat them maybe we put them in dogs to eat them maybe we put them in the middle of the shell pile but then the middle of the shell pile but then the middle of the shell pile but then that all of of a sudden became this like that all of of a sudden became this like that all of of a sudden became this like that's where my grandfather's body is that's where my grandfather's body is that's where my grandfather's body is that's where great-grandfather's body is that's where great-grandfather's body is that's where great-grandfather's body is and all of a sudden people started being and all of a sudden people started being and all of a sudden people started being attached to place not just for the attached to place not just for the attached to place not just for the resources but for the shared memories of resources but for the shared memories of resources but for the shared memories of their ancestors so when the very first their ancestors so when the very first their ancestors so when the very first pyramid was built in uh Ohio area by the pyramid was built in uh Ohio area by the pyramid was built in uh Ohio area by the Adena people it was built out of dirt Adena people it was built out of dirt Adena people it was built out of dirt but it's full of bodies and I think it's but it's full of bodies and I think it's but it's full of bodies and I think it's an echo of a old thing where they used an echo of a old thing where they used an echo of a old thing where they used to be putting bodies in Shell to be putting bodies in Shell to be putting bodies in Shell Mounds so where and who were the first

Mounds so where and who were the first Mounds so where and who were the first civilizations in South America mzo civilizations in South America mzo civilizations in South America mzo America well you know I think we're America well you know I think we're America well you know I think we're still piecing that together coming back still piecing that together coming back still piecing that together coming back to the first things we talked about I to the first things we talked about I to the first things we talked about I think we're still missing a lot of stuff think we're still missing a lot of stuff think we're still missing a lot of stuff uh especially in South America it just uh especially in South America it just uh especially in South America it just keeps getting older and older part of keeps getting older and older part of keeps getting older and older part of the reason it's hard to answer that the reason it's hard to answer that the reason it's hard to answer that question is you know at what point do we question is you know at what point do we question is you know at what point do we consider people a civilization or a consider people a civilization or a consider people a civilization or a culture we have in the Americas this culture we have in the Americas this culture we have in the Americas this long period of time that we call the the long period of time that we call the the long period of time that we call the the the Paleo Indian time where they were the Paleo Indian time where they were the Paleo Indian time where they were hunting megap and then when those went hunting megap and then when those went hunting megap and then when those went away we get into this even longer period away we get into this even longer period away we get into this even longer period of time called the archaic M where of time called the archaic M where of time called the archaic M where they're just hunters and gatherers they're just hunters and gatherers they're just hunters and gatherers sometimes somebody's coming up with a sometimes somebody's coming up with a sometimes somebody's coming up with a cool different kind of Arrow Head they cool different kind of Arrow Head they cool different kind of Arrow Head they go back and forth with different hunting go back and forth with different hunting go back and forth with different hunting tools but really nothing changes for tools but really nothing changes for tools but really nothing changes for thousands of of years and then finally thousands of of years and then finally thousands of of years and then finally they start developing into these larger they start developing into these larger they start developing into these larger groups which for the most part has to do groups which for the most part has to do groups which for the most part has to do with with with agriculture it used to be archaeology agriculture it used to be archaeology agriculture it used to be archaeology that was just the end all be all that was just the end all be all that was just the end all be all civilization starts with the invention civilization starts with the invention civilization starts with the invention of agriculture and we can't have of agriculture and we can't have of agriculture and we can't have sedentary communities until people learn sedentary communities until people learn sedentary communities until people learn how to farm but that's been discounted how to farm but that's been discounted how to farm but that's been discounted Peru was a big part of that that area of Peru was a big part of that that area of Peru was a big part of that that area of Corral it's connected to another city on Corral it's connected to another city on Corral it's connected to another city on a coast called aspero and aspero starts a coast called aspero and aspero starts a coast called aspero and aspero starts about the same time but they're all about the same time but they're all about the same time but they're all about fishing they have no farming and

about fishing they have no farming and about fishing they have no farming and coral who's up River from them is coral who's up River from them is coral who's up River from them is farming but funny enough they're not farming but funny enough they're not farming but funny enough they're not really farming food they're farming really farming food they're farming really farming food they're farming cotton and they're making Nets and cotton and they're making Nets and cotton and they're making Nets and they're trading the Nets with the people they're trading the Nets with the people they're trading the Nets with the people on the coast for the on the coast for the on the coast for the fish um so it's not as simple as it's fish um so it's not as simple as it's fish um so it's not as simple as it's just agriculture anymore but it is I just agriculture anymore but it is I just agriculture anymore but it is I think still rooted in think still rooted in think still rooted in how can we feed more people than just how can we feed more people than just how can we feed more people than just our family how can we together create a our family how can we together create a our family how can we together create a food abundance so we're no longer know food abundance so we're no longer know food abundance so we're no longer know scared about running out of food so is scared about running out of food so is scared about running out of food so is it possible which is something you've it possible which is something you've it possible which is something you've argued that Civilization started in the argued that Civilization started in the argued that Civilization started in the Amazon in the Amazon in the Amazon in the jungle I think so I think religion in jungle I think so I think religion in jungle I think so I think religion in South America began in the Amazon I South America began in the Amazon I South America began in the Amazon I think there were people there very old think there were people there very old think there were people there very old there's actually there's actually there's actually the earliest Pottery in all of the the earliest Pottery in all of the the earliest Pottery in all of the Americas of all these places that we Americas of all these places that we Americas of all these places that we have civilizations that grew up you know have civilizations that grew up you know have civilizations that grew up you know where the oldest Pottery is the middle where the oldest Pottery is the middle where the oldest Pottery is the middle of the Amazon so there's interesting of the Amazon so there's interesting of the Amazon so there's interesting cultures developing in the Amazon so cultures developing in the Amazon so cultures developing in the Amazon so religion you would say preceded religion you would say preceded religion you would say preceded civilization in South America the uh the civilization in South America the uh the civilization in South America the uh the coral and aspo that I was just talking coral and aspo that I was just talking coral and aspo that I was just talking about it's weird what a dir of Art and about it's weird what a dir of Art and about it's weird what a dir of Art and any evidence of religion we have we have any evidence of religion we have we have any evidence of religion we have we have those pyramids and things that we call those pyramids and things that we call those pyramids and things that we call temples but we don't really know what temples but we don't really know what temples but we don't really know what went on in there and there's no hints of went on in there and there's no hints of went on in there and there's no hints of uh religious

uh religious uh religious iconography uh ceremonies nothing like iconography uh ceremonies nothing like iconography uh ceremonies nothing like that the first stuff that we get is that the first stuff that we get is that the first stuff that we get is right when that culture ends about 1800 right when that culture ends about 1800 right when that culture ends about 1800 BCE this culture called uh shaveen BCE this culture called uh shaveen BCE this culture called uh shaveen starts up and they their main Temple is starts up and they their main Temple is starts up and they their main Temple is up in the Andes in this place of uh up in the Andes in this place of uh up in the Andes in this place of uh least path of re least resistance least path of re least resistance least path of re least resistance between the Amazon and the coast it's between the Amazon and the coast it's between the Amazon and the coast it's about three days walk either way from about three days walk either way from about three days walk either way from this this place where this Temple is this this place where this Temple is this this place where this Temple is that's where we start seeing the very that's where we start seeing the very that's where we start seeing the very first religious iconography and it's all first religious iconography and it's all first religious iconography and it's all over the temples there are things that over the temples there are things that over the temples there are things that are definitely from the coast but the are definitely from the coast but the are definitely from the coast but the iconography are all Jaguars and snakes iconography are all Jaguars and snakes iconography are all Jaguars and snakes and crocodiles and those don't come from and crocodiles and those don't come from and crocodiles and those don't come from the coast all of those things are are the coast all of those things are are the coast all of those things are are coming out of the Amazon I mean religion coming out of the Amazon I mean religion coming out of the Amazon I mean religion is a really powerful idea religions are is a really powerful idea religions are is a really powerful idea religions are one of the most powerful ideas they're one of the most powerful ideas they're one of the most powerful ideas they're the strongest myths that tie people the strongest myths that tie people the strongest myths that tie people together and to you it's possible that together and to you it's possible that together and to you it's possible that this this this powerful uh idea in South America powerful uh idea in South America powerful uh idea in South America started in the Amazon I do I do think it started in the Amazon I do I do think it started in the Amazon I do I do think it did did did um and you're right I know ideas are um and you're right I know ideas are um and you're right I know ideas are more powerful than weapons but more powerful than weapons but more powerful than weapons but archaeology can't see them at all we can archaeology can't see them at all we can archaeology can't see them at all we can see sometimes we can see ideas see sometimes we can see ideas see sometimes we can see ideas manifesting in the things they they manifesting in the things they they manifesting in the things they they create and lead to but there's an create and lead to but there's an create and lead to but there's an interpretation problem are we right interpretation problem are we right interpretation problem are we right about what idea created this that those

about what idea created this that those about what idea created this that those are things that archaeology just can't are things that archaeology just can't are things that archaeology just can't get at that's one of the challenges of get at that's one of the challenges of get at that's one of the challenges of archaeology and looking into ancient archaeology and looking into ancient archaeology and looking into ancient history is you're trying to not just history is you're trying to not just history is you're trying to not just understand what they were doing in terms understand what they were doing in terms understand what they were doing in terms of architecture but understand what was of architecture but understand what was of architecture but understand what was going on inside their mind that's really going on inside their mind that's really going on inside their mind that's really what what I'm in it for trying to what what I'm in it for trying to what what I'm in it for trying to understand these people and it's real understand these people and it's real understand these people and it's real detective work and we know we're dealing detective work and we know we're dealing detective work and we know we're dealing with a a totally flawed record we only with a a totally flawed record we only with a a totally flawed record we only have what could preserve the test of have what could preserve the test of have what could preserve the test of time you know if we look around this time you know if we look around this time you know if we look around this room here if uh if 2,000 years of room here if uh if 2,000 years of room here if uh if 2,000 years of weathering happened in this room what weathering happened in this room what weathering happened in this room what would be left and what would we think would be left and what would we think would be left and what would we think happened happened happened here right right right but there's not here right right right but there's not here right right right but there's not in this room but if you look at in this room but if you look at in this room but if you look at thousands of rooms like it maybe you can thousands of rooms like it maybe you can thousands of rooms like it maybe you can start to piece things together about the start to piece things together about the start to piece things together about the different ideologies that ruled the different ideologies that ruled the different ideologies that ruled the world uh the religions the different world uh the religions the different world uh the religions the different ideas uh tell me about this Fang deity ideas uh tell me about this Fang deity ideas uh tell me about this Fang deity one of your more controversial ideas is one of your more controversial ideas is one of your more controversial ideas is that you believe that the Rel the that you believe that the Rel the that you believe that the Rel the religions there's a thread that connects religions there's a thread that connects religions there's a thread that connects the different civilizations the the different civilizations the the different civilizations the societies of the andian societies of the andian societies of the andian region and the religion that practice is region and the religion that practice is region and the religion that practice is more monotheistic than is currently more monotheistic than is currently more monotheistic than is currently believed in the mainstream that is believed in the mainstream that is believed in the mainstream that is exactly what I think and it's I think exactly what I think and it's I think exactly what I think and it's I think it's all about this Fang deity who it's all about this Fang deity who it's all about this Fang deity who somewhere thousands of years ago crawled somewhere thousands of years ago crawled somewhere thousands of years ago crawled his way out of the Amazon up into the

his way out of the Amazon up into the his way out of the Amazon up into the Andes and a religion took hold that Andes and a religion took hold that Andes and a religion took hold that could have been kind of a combination of could have been kind of a combination of could have been kind of a combination of ideas from the coast and the Amazon but ideas from the coast and the Amazon but ideas from the coast and the Amazon but he is the one Creator deity in my he is the one Creator deity in my he is the one Creator deity in my opinion through all of these cultures opinion through all of these cultures opinion through all of these cultures and the people the Amazon still talk and the people the Amazon still talk and the people the Amazon still talk about him there his name is Vias in some about him there his name is Vias in some about him there his name is Vias in some groups but they say that his uh his groups but they say that his uh his groups but they say that his uh his emissaries on Earth are the Jaguars and emissaries on Earth are the Jaguars and emissaries on Earth are the Jaguars and that he is the creator deity why is the that he is the creator deity why is the that he is the creator deity why is the current mainstream belief is that a lot current mainstream belief is that a lot current mainstream belief is that a lot of the religions are not monotheistic of the religions are not monotheistic of the religions are not monotheistic well there are Bonafide uh pantheons you well there are Bonafide uh pantheons you well there are Bonafide uh pantheons you know Greece had one Egypt had one know Greece had one Egypt had one know Greece had one Egypt had one Mesopotamia had one lots of the early Mesopotamia had one lots of the early Mesopotamia had one lots of the early religions of the old world were religions of the old world were religions of the old world were pantheons and I think that was part of pantheons and I think that was part of pantheons and I think that was part of the problem the earliest the problem the earliest the problem the earliest archaeologists walked in there with a archaeologists walked in there with a archaeologists walked in there with a preconceived notion that ancient preconceived notion that ancient preconceived notion that ancient cultures have pantheons and so they went cultures have pantheons and so they went cultures have pantheons and so they went to the art looking for them and they to the art looking for them and they to the art looking for them and they came up with things like the shark God came up with things like the shark God came up with things like the shark God and the moon goddess and uh the Sun God and the moon goddess and uh the Sun God and the moon goddess and uh the Sun God and all these things but when I look at and all these things but when I look at and all these things but when I look at the art and I was trained by a person the art and I was trained by a person the art and I was trained by a person right here in Austin Texas as an art right here in Austin Texas as an art right here in Austin Texas as an art historian you follow historian you follow historian you follow certain uh diagnostic traits through ART certain uh diagnostic traits through ART certain uh diagnostic traits through ART to see the development over time and to see the development over time and to see the development over time and when I look at it and use that when I look at it and use that when I look at it and use that methodology there's a single face with methodology there's a single face with methodology there's a single face with goggle eyes and fangs and claws on his goggle eyes and fangs and claws on his goggle eyes and fangs and claws on his hands and feet and snakes coming off of

hands and feet and snakes coming off of hands and feet and snakes coming off of his head and off of his belt he's he's his head and off of his belt he's he's his head and off of his belt he's he's got really identifiable traits he also got really identifiable traits he also got really identifiable traits he also likes to sever people's heads off and likes to sever people's heads off and likes to sever people's heads off and carry them around but he's the fanged carry them around but he's the fanged carry them around but he's the fanged deity and he's there he shows up in deity and he's there he shows up in deity and he's there he shows up in chven De hantar the capital of that chven De hantar the capital of that chven De hantar the capital of that shaveen shaveen shaveen culture and he keeps showing up through culture and he keeps showing up through culture and he keeps showing up through every culture even thousands of miles every culture even thousands of miles every culture even thousands of miles away throughout the next two Millennium away throughout the next two Millennium away throughout the next two Millennium right up to the Inca the Ina have a right up to the Inca the Ina have a right up to the Inca the Ina have a Creator deity they call Creator deity they call Creator deity they call veroa but veroa is the Fang veroa but veroa is the Fang veroa but veroa is the Fang deity he is when we do see him by the deity he is when we do see him by the deity he is when we do see him by the time you get to Inca they do this kind time you get to Inca they do this kind time you get to Inca they do this kind of like almost uh Islamic thing where of like almost uh Islamic thing where of like almost uh Islamic thing where they say you you can't understand the they say you you can't understand the they say you you can't understand the face of farak COA so when they do put face of farak COA so when they do put face of farak COA so when they do put him in a him in a him in a cosmogram they'll make him just a blob cosmogram they'll make him just a blob cosmogram they'll make him just a blob like he's just unknowable but he's at like he's just unknowable but he's at like he's just unknowable but he's at the very top I think we're the very top I think we're the very top I think we're misunderstanding a lot of things that we misunderstanding a lot of things that we misunderstanding a lot of things that we used to say were deities as just used to say were deities as just used to say were deities as just supernatural supernatural supernatural beings if we flip the mirror on beings if we flip the mirror on beings if we flip the mirror on Christianity and take a look at it which Christianity and take a look at it which Christianity and take a look at it which of course Christianity monotheistic of course Christianity monotheistic of course Christianity monotheistic right it would be heresy to say right it would be heresy to say right it would be heresy to say otherwise but who are all these other otherwise but who are all these other otherwise but who are all these other characters who are all these angels and characters who are all these angels and characters who are all these angels and demons and you know Jesus Christ and I demons and you know Jesus Christ and I demons and you know Jesus Christ and I mean I don't even know who the holy mean I don't even know who the holy mean I don't even know who the holy spirit is but he's some sort of spirit is but he's some sort of spirit is but he's some sort of Supernatural being but it's that Supernatural being but it's that Supernatural being but it's that monotheistic system has lots of things

monotheistic system has lots of things monotheistic system has lots of things that have Supernatural powers that are that have Supernatural powers that are that have Supernatural powers that are not God that's where I think the Crux of not God that's where I think the Crux of not God that's where I think the Crux of us us us misunderstanding ancient andian artart misunderstanding ancient andian artart misunderstanding ancient andian artart is so what what is the process of is so what what is the process of is so what what is the process of analyzing art through time to try to analyzing art through time to try to analyzing art through time to try to figure out what the important entities figure out what the important entities figure out what the important entities are for the culture you just see what are for the culture you just see what are for the culture you just see what shows up over and over and over and shows up over and over and over and shows up over and over and over and over well certainly without the uh over well certainly without the uh over well certainly without the uh Advent of Advent of Advent of writing uh depictions in art have all writing uh depictions in art have all writing uh depictions in art have all sorts of meanings encoded in them and sorts of meanings encoded in them and sorts of meanings encoded in them and there are certain you know what we call there are certain you know what we call there are certain you know what we call diagnostic elements diagnostic elements diagnostic elements like we can we can pull apart the same like we can we can pull apart the same like we can we can pull apart the same sort of thing in uh like in the Greek sort of thing in uh like in the Greek sort of thing in uh like in the Greek pantheon you know you know by their pantheon you know you know by their pantheon you know you know by their dress and what they're holding what the dress and what they're holding what the dress and what they're holding what the different gods are you can tell Hades different gods are you can tell Hades different gods are you can tell Hades from from Zeus by the different things from from Zeus by the different things from from Zeus by the different things they're holding you know lightning bolts they're holding you know lightning bolts they're holding you know lightning bolts or Trident or whatever it is so they all or Trident or whatever it is so they all or Trident or whatever it is so they all have these have these have these diagnostic elements to them so that's diagnostic elements to them so that's diagnostic elements to them so that's how art history goes about analyzing art how art history goes about analyzing art how art history goes about analyzing art over time once once we can put it in a over time once once we can put it in a over time once once we can put it in a chronological sequence then we can say chronological sequence then we can say chronological sequence then we can say okay here's here's a deity here in okay here's here's a deity here in okay here's here's a deity here in shaveen culture Now we move forward 500 shaveen culture Now we move forward 500 shaveen culture Now we move forward 500 years now we're in moch and nazka years now we're in moch and nazka years now we're in moch and nazka culture you know who were who where are culture you know who were who where are culture you know who were who where are the deities here and what I see is that the deities here and what I see is that the deities here and what I see is that same guy with not just one or two traits

same guy with not just one or two traits same guy with not just one or two traits but a whole package of them that shows but a whole package of them that shows but a whole package of them that shows up again and again and again for up again and again and again for up again and again and again for thousands of years in each one of these thousands of years in each one of these thousands of years in each one of these cultures he's got circular eyes he's got cultures he's got circular eyes he's got cultures he's got circular eyes he's got a fanged mouth he's got claws on his a fanged mouth he's got claws on his a fanged mouth he's got claws on his hands and feet he's a he's a humanoid hands and feet he's a he's a humanoid hands and feet he's a he's a humanoid but he also has uh snakes coming off of but he also has uh snakes coming off of but he also has uh snakes coming off of his head like hair and snakes coming off his head like hair and snakes coming off his head like hair and snakes coming off of his belt and then not so much in of his belt and then not so much in of his belt and then not so much in shaveen but as it goes forward he starts shaveen but as it goes forward he starts shaveen but as it goes forward he starts carting carting carting around uh severed heads human severed around uh severed heads human severed around uh severed heads human severed heads so they're like in the old heads so they're like in the old heads so they're like in the old literature uh the moch will call him the literature uh the moch will call him the literature uh the moch will call him the decapitator decapitator decapitator deity but then they have these other deity but then they have these other deity but then they have these other like oh here's the crab deity and here's like oh here's the crab deity and here's like oh here's the crab deity and here's the fox deity but if you look at them the fox deity but if you look at them the fox deity but if you look at them like the crab deity is just that guy's like the crab deity is just that guy's like the crab deity is just that guy's face coming off of a crab and the fox face coming off of a crab and the fox face coming off of a crab and the fox deity is that guy's face coming off of a deity is that guy's face coming off of a deity is that guy's face coming off of a fox so I think in on that particular fox so I think in on that particular fox so I think in on that particular instance I explain it similar to what instance I explain it similar to what instance I explain it similar to what Zeus did you know how Zeus was able to Zeus did you know how Zeus was able to Zeus did you know how Zeus was able to like you know turn into whatever animal like you know turn into whatever animal like you know turn into whatever animal he wanted to get with the woman he he wanted to get with the woman he he wanted to get with the woman he wanted and he showed up in all sorts of wanted and he showed up in all sorts of wanted and he showed up in all sorts of forms but he was always Zeus I think forms but he was always Zeus I think forms but he was always Zeus I think that the uh the Fang deity manifests that the uh the Fang deity manifests that the uh the Fang deity manifests himself through people and animals himself through people and animals himself through people and animals throughout the art and that there are throughout the art and that there are throughout the art and that there are missing stories of Mythology that we missing stories of Mythology that we missing stories of Mythology that we don't have anymore and across hundreds don't have anymore and across hundreds don't have anymore and across hundreds of years thousands of years from shaveen

of years thousands of years from shaveen of years thousands of years from shaveen to moja to Inca as you're saying right to moja to Inca as you're saying right to moja to Inca as you're saying right wari has them too Tia wanako that's that wari has them too Tia wanako that's that wari has them too Tia wanako that's that that famous place Puma kou he's all over that famous place Puma kou he's all over that famous place Puma kou he's all over there I wonder how those ideas spread in there I wonder how those ideas spread in there I wonder how those ideas spread in morph of this Fang morph of this Fang morph of this Fang deity I think people walked and przed deity I think people walked and przed deity I think people walked and przed and places like shevine there's a later and places like shevine there's a later and places like shevine there's a later one in Inca times called uh Patak kamak one in Inca times called uh Patak kamak one in Inca times called uh Patak kamak that are pilgrimage places where people that are pilgrimage places where people that are pilgrimage places where people come in to be healed if they're sick but come in to be healed if they're sick but come in to be healed if they're sick but also just to pay homage to the powers also just to pay homage to the powers also just to pay homage to the powers that be so uh shaveen was a place where that be so uh shaveen was a place where that be so uh shaveen was a place where people from the Amazon and people from people from the Amazon and people from people from the Amazon and people from the coast were all coming together in the coast were all coming together in the coast were all coming together in fact we saw it in the archaeology there fact we saw it in the archaeology there fact we saw it in the archaeology there there's these interesting labyrinths there's these interesting labyrinths there's these interesting labyrinths under the pyramids with the Fang de all under the pyramids with the Fang de all under the pyramids with the Fang de all over them that have like one Labyrinth over them that have like one Labyrinth over them that have like one Labyrinth they'll have all Pottery the next they'll have all Pottery the next they'll have all Pottery the next Labyrinth will have a bunch of animal Labyrinth will have a bunch of animal Labyrinth will have a bunch of animal bones the next one will have a bunch of bones the next one will have a bunch of bones the next one will have a bunch of things made out of stone so people are things made out of stone so people are things made out of stone so people are showing up and giving this tribute and showing up and giving this tribute and showing up and giving this tribute and they're learning and then they're going they're learning and then they're going they're learning and then they're going back to their community so I think it back to their community so I think it back to their community so I think it dispers firsted from certain pilgrimage dispers firsted from certain pilgrimage dispers firsted from certain pilgrimage spots and became just like pilgrimage spots and became just like pilgrimage spots and became just like pilgrimage spots do somebody goes back and they spots do somebody goes back and they spots do somebody goes back and they build a temple to the Fang deity do we build a temple to the Fang deity do we build a temple to the Fang deity do we know much about the relationship they know much about the relationship they know much about the relationship they had with the Fang deity and like their had with the Fang deity and like their had with the Fang deity and like their conception of the powers of the Fang conception of the powers of the Fang conception of the powers of the Fang deity is it were they afraid of the Fang

deity is it were they afraid of the Fang deity is it were they afraid of the Fang Dei is and all knowing god is it uh Dei is and all knowing god is it uh Dei is and all knowing god is it uh something that brings Joy and harvest or something that brings Joy and harvest or something that brings Joy and harvest or is it something that you're supposed to is it something that you're supposed to is it something that you're supposed to be afraid of and sacrifice animals and be afraid of and sacrifice animals and be afraid of and sacrifice animals and humans to to keep it keep a bay I think humans to to keep it keep a bay I think humans to to keep it keep a bay I think he had two sides of the coin like a lot he had two sides of the coin like a lot he had two sides of the coin like a lot of the the Hindu gods are you know one of the the Hindu gods are you know one of the the Hindu gods are you know one aspect is terrible the other aspect is aspect is terrible the other aspect is aspect is terrible the other aspect is lovely um I think he had that same sorts lovely um I think he had that same sorts lovely um I think he had that same sorts of qualities cuz we do see him as a of qualities cuz we do see him as a of qualities cuz we do see him as a fierce Warrior taking people's heads off fierce Warrior taking people's heads off fierce Warrior taking people's heads off and he is a Jaguar which in and of and he is a Jaguar which in and of and he is a Jaguar which in and of itself implies a certain power and itself implies a certain power and itself implies a certain power and ferocity but but then there are other ferocity but but then there are other ferocity but but then there are other funny things about him like he is funny things about him like he is funny things about him like he is definitely involved in a lot of healing definitely involved in a lot of healing definitely involved in a lot of healing ceremonies and a lot of those healing ceremonies and a lot of those healing ceremonies and a lot of those healing ceremonies are involved with uh sex acts ceremonies are involved with uh sex acts ceremonies are involved with uh sex acts when it comes to the moch there's this when it comes to the moch there's this when it comes to the moch there's this whole group of sexual Pottery where whole group of sexual Pottery where whole group of sexual Pottery where priests are having sex with women or priests are having sex with women or priests are having sex with women or men um and some of them show their faces men um and some of them show their faces men um and some of them show their faces transforming into that Fang deity like transforming into that Fang deity like transforming into that Fang deity like he is acting through them MH but the the he is acting through them MH but the the he is acting through them MH but the the thing that most cracks me up that shows thing that most cracks me up that shows thing that most cracks me up that shows his softer side is the Fang deity has a his softer side is the Fang deity has a his softer side is the Fang deity has a little puppy he has a puppy that's like little puppy he has a puppy that's like little puppy he has a puppy that's like just dancing around his feet and like just dancing around his feet and like just dancing around his feet and like jumping up on him in various scenes they jumping up on him in various scenes they jumping up on him in various scenes they see him again and again sometimes he's see him again and again sometimes he's see him again and again sometimes he's in these these healing sex scenes in in these these healing sex scenes in in these these healing sex scenes in fact I tracked that puppy from other fact I tracked that puppy from other fact I tracked that puppy from other contexts to these sex scenes where the

contexts to these sex scenes where the contexts to these sex scenes where the uh where a priest was having sex with uh where a priest was having sex with uh where a priest was having sex with somebody in a house Fang deity and somebody in a house Fang deity and somebody in a house Fang deity and there's a puppy just scratching at the there's a puppy just scratching at the there's a puppy just scratching at the door like hey you forgot me and then door like hey you forgot me and then door like hey you forgot me and then finally one day I found one with the finally one day I found one with the finally one day I found one with the puppy having sex with the woman instead puppy having sex with the woman instead puppy having sex with the woman instead of the Fang deity I was like oh he of the Fang deity I was like oh he of the Fang deity I was like oh he really is very involved in this what is really is very involved in this what is really is very involved in this what is this weird puppy so he's yeah he likes this weird puppy so he's yeah he likes this weird puppy so he's yeah he likes to take heads off but he also has a to take heads off but he also has a to take heads off but he also has a puppy he adors this actually this is puppy he adors this actually this is puppy he adors this actually this is awesomely makes sense now cuz I I saw awesomely makes sense now cuz I I saw awesomely makes sense now cuz I I saw the opening of a paper you wrote 30 the opening of a paper you wrote 30 the opening of a paper you wrote 30 years ago on Shamanism and the moocha years ago on Shamanism and the moocha years ago on Shamanism and the moocha civilization it reads the moocha of the civilization it reads the moocha of the civilization it reads the moocha of the major focus of this paper sex puppies major focus of this paper sex puppies major focus of this paper sex puppies and head hunting will be shown to be and head hunting will be shown to be and head hunting will be shown to be related to ancient mocha related to ancient mocha related to ancient mocha Shamanism uh so now I understand I was Shamanism uh so now I understand I was Shamanism uh so now I understand I was like well the puppies puppies yeah it's like well the puppies puppies yeah it's like well the puppies puppies yeah it's true uh and the head hunting that's the true uh and the head hunting that's the true uh and the head hunting that's the decapitator and I've added rock and roll decapitator and I've added rock and roll decapitator and I've added rock and roll to that list since actually which as to that list since actually which as to that list since actually which as rock and roll or Know music is also a rock and roll or Know music is also a rock and roll or Know music is also a big part of it they they oh interesting big part of it they they oh interesting big part of it they they oh interesting they they call Spirits down there's this they they call Spirits down there's this they they call Spirits down there's this whole spirit world there's the whole spirit world there's the whole spirit world there's the ancestors and the the people that drink ancestors and the the people that drink ancestors and the the people that drink San Pedro cactus juice kind of they San Pedro cactus juice kind of they San Pedro cactus juice kind of they don't talk about the Fang deity anymore don't talk about the Fang deity anymore don't talk about the Fang deity anymore I think Christianity in 500 years has I think Christianity in 500 years has I think Christianity in 500 years has somewhat put him in the back you know it somewhat put him in the back you know it somewhat put him in the back you know it was unpopular to have a pagan deity so was unpopular to have a pagan deity so was unpopular to have a pagan deity so they don't talk about him much anymore they don't talk about him much anymore they don't talk about him much anymore though he's still around they're in like though he's still around they're in like though he's still around they're in like around troo they call him I around troo they call him I around troo they call him I ipek but

ipek but ipek but um music play in the Amazon they play um music play in the Amazon they play um music play in the Amazon they play flutes sometimes A Chorus of women sing flutes sometimes A Chorus of women sing flutes sometimes A Chorus of women sing and that's supposed to bring the spirits and that's supposed to bring the spirits and that's supposed to bring the spirits down into the ceremony there's a spirit down into the ceremony there's a spirit down into the ceremony there's a spirit that's hurting the person that's sick that's hurting the person that's sick that's hurting the person that's sick and then the the priest or the shaman or and then the the priest or the shaman or and then the the priest or the shaman or the corander whatever you want to call the corander whatever you want to call the corander whatever you want to call him has his own posi him has his own posi him has his own posi of spirits that are going to help him of spirits that are going to help him of spirits that are going to help him figure out what's going on so when the figure out what's going on so when the figure out what's going on so when the music music music starts that's bringing those Spirits in starts that's bringing those Spirits in starts that's bringing those Spirits in and people don't see them unless they've and people don't see them unless they've and people don't see them unless they've imbibed the San Pedro cactus juice which imbibed the San Pedro cactus juice which imbibed the San Pedro cactus juice which is is this is is this is is this hallucinogen which is in the Amazon side hallucinogen which is in the Amazon side hallucinogen which is in the Amazon side it was iasa on the on the coast it was it was iasa on the on the coast it was it was iasa on the on the coast it was San Pedro cactus MH but that's what San Pedro cactus MH but that's what San Pedro cactus MH but that's what allows you to actually see that other allows you to actually see that other allows you to actually see that other world yeah I I went to the Amazon world yeah I I went to the Amazon world yeah I I went to the Amazon recently did iosa very high dose of it recently did iosa very high dose of it recently did iosa very high dose of it bold moo um when in moo um when in Rome well how far back does that go oh I Rome well how far back does that go oh I Rome well how far back does that go oh I I think longer than anybody can remember I think longer than anybody can remember I think longer than anybody can remember but I mean it's a natural plant that's but I mean it's a natural plant that's but I mean it's a natural plant that's been there forever I think that it's been there forever I think that it's been there forever I think that it's thousands and thousands of years that's thousands and thousands of years that's thousands and thousands of years that's another thing uh shavin de juara was another thing uh shavin de juara was another thing uh shavin de juara was talking about where I think the things talking about where I think the things talking about where I think the things came the religion came from the came the religion came from the came the religion came from the Amazon there's this wall on the back Amazon there's this wall on the back Amazon there's this wall on the back side that faces the Amazon side so if side that faces the Amazon side so if side that faces the Amazon side so if you're entering the city from the Amazon you're entering the city from the Amazon you're entering the city from the Amazon path you see this wall first and it's a

path you see this wall first and it's a path you see this wall first and it's a bunch of faces that some of them are bunch of faces that some of them are bunch of faces that some of them are human some of them are total Jaguar are human some of them are total Jaguar are human some of them are total Jaguar are and some of them are and some of them are and some of them are transforming in between but there's a transforming in between but there's a transforming in between but there's a group of them that are Midway through group of them that are Midway through group of them that are Midway through transformation and they show their transformation and they show their transformation and they show their nostrils leaking out this snot that's nostrils leaking out this snot that's nostrils leaking out this snot that's coming like down their face San Pedro coming like down their face San Pedro coming like down their face San Pedro doesn't do that to you but aasa does doesn't do that to you but aasa does doesn't do that to you but aasa does aasa traditionally theyd take a blow gun aasa traditionally theyd take a blow gun aasa traditionally theyd take a blow gun and just shoot it up your nose or up and just shoot it up your nose or up and just shoot it up your nose or up your ass but it would a lot of times up your ass but it would a lot of times up your ass but it would a lot of times up your nose and when it shoots up your your nose and when it shoots up your your nose and when it shoots up your nose the first thing that happens is nose the first thing that happens is nose the first thing that happens is just this gush of snot comes out of you just this gush of snot comes out of you just this gush of snot comes out of you and there are and there are and there are Stone uh depictions of people Stone uh depictions of people Stone uh depictions of people uncontrollably snotting on the back side uncontrollably snotting on the back side uncontrollably snotting on the back side of this temple from know 3,000 years ago of this temple from know 3,000 years ago of this temple from know 3,000 years ago so that you think could have been a big so that you think could have been a big so that you think could have been a big component of the development of religion component of the development of religion component of the development of religion and Shamanism I think that and Shamanism I think that and Shamanism I think that hallucinogens opened the mind then like hallucinogens opened the mind then like hallucinogens opened the mind then like they open the mind now do you think that they open the mind now do you think that they open the mind now do you think that you know the Stone ape Theory uh do you you know the Stone ape Theory uh do you you know the Stone ape Theory uh do you think that actually could have been an think that actually could have been an think that actually could have been an actual Catalyst for the formation of uh actual Catalyst for the formation of uh actual Catalyst for the formation of uh civilization in the Americas yes I do civilization in the Americas yes I do civilization in the Americas yes I do though you know hallucinogens are not though you know hallucinogens are not though you know hallucinogens are not part of every uh ancient tradition in part of every uh ancient tradition in part of every uh ancient tradition in the world in fact strangely the majority the world in fact strangely the majority the world in fact strangely the majority of plants that that are actually of plants that that are actually of plants that that are actually psychotropic not just mood altering are

psychotropic not just mood altering are psychotropic not just mood altering are from here in the from here in the from here in the Americas there there are very few uh Americas there there are very few uh Americas there there are very few uh drugs that will make you hallucinate drugs that will make you hallucinate drugs that will make you hallucinate outside of the Americas of course now outside of the Americas of course now outside of the Americas of course now they're Global and you know they they they're Global and you know they they they're Global and you know they they can be grown all over the place but can be grown all over the place but can be grown all over the place but originally speaking very very few were originally speaking very very few were originally speaking very very few were outside of the Americas so they were outside of the Americas so they were outside of the Americas so they were part of the experience here in a way part of the experience here in a way part of the experience here in a way that they just couldn't be in other that they just couldn't be in other that they just couldn't be in other places I wonder to what degree they were places I wonder to what degree they were places I wonder to what degree they were just part of a ritual and the creative just part of a ritual and the creative just part of a ritual and the creative force behind sort of art versus like force behind sort of art versus like force behind sort of art versus like literal the method by which you come up with the method by which you come up with ideas that Define a civilization it's ideas that Define a civilization it's ideas that Define a civilization it's like the degree to which they had a role like the degree to which they had a role like the degree to which they had a role in the formation of civilizations it's in the formation of civilizations it's in the formation of civilizations it's kind of fun to think about psychedelics kind of fun to think about psychedelics kind of fun to think about psychedelics being like a critical role in the being like a critical role in the being like a critical role in the formation of civilizations I think in formation of civilizations I think in formation of civilizations I think in terms of South America they probably terms of South America they probably terms of South America they probably really were um in North America where really were um in North America where really were um in North America where we're in a more Northern climb here and we're in a more Northern climb here and we're in a more Northern climb here and there are less of them not so much at there are less of them not so much at there are less of them not so much at least in terms of psychedelics things least in terms of psychedelics things least in terms of psychedelics things like uh know tobacco was always a big like uh know tobacco was always a big like uh know tobacco was always a big part of it but a lot of the you know part of it but a lot of the you know part of it but a lot of the you know there's there's more than one way to there's there's more than one way to there's there's more than one way to meet to reach a hallucinatory state the meet to reach a hallucinatory state the meet to reach a hallucinatory state the hard way is hard way is hard way is starvation uh sleep deprivation and for starvation uh sleep deprivation and for starvation uh sleep deprivation and for the the Maya for example would go sleep the the Maya for example would go sleep the the Maya for example would go sleep deprivation starvation and then they'd deprivation starvation and then they'd deprivation starvation and then they'd cut themselves very badly and that loss cut themselves very badly and that loss cut themselves very badly and that loss of blood We Believe triggered

of blood We Believe triggered of blood We Believe triggered hallucinations and hallucinations and hallucinations and nothing to do with nothing to do with nothing to do with drugs I much prefer the drugs R it's the drugs I much prefer the drugs R it's the drugs I much prefer the drugs R it's the it's the result not the uh the tools it's the result not the uh the tools it's the result not the uh the tools aren't the thing that creates Insight aren't the thing that creates Insight aren't the thing that creates Insight it's the the result so that getting to it's the the result so that getting to it's the the result so that getting to you know it's hallucinogens are you know it's hallucinogens are you know it's hallucinogens are poisoning us they're killing us that's poisoning us they're killing us that's poisoning us they're killing us that's you know it's a it's a near-death State you know it's a it's a near-death State you know it's a it's a near-death State and people of the Americas believed and people of the Americas believed and people of the Americas believed sleeping was entering that other world sleeping was entering that other world sleeping was entering that other world uh death you entered this other other uh death you entered this other other uh death you entered this other other world and that when you took this Mighty world and that when you took this Mighty world and that when you took this Mighty dose of poison it was helping you enter dose of poison it was helping you enter dose of poison it was helping you enter that other world for a period of time that other world for a period of time that other world for a period of time yeah as Tom Wade said in that one song I yeah as Tom Wade said in that one song I yeah as Tom Wade said in that one song I like my town with a little Drop of like my town with a little Drop of like my town with a little Drop of Poison so maybe that poison is a good uh Poison so maybe that poison is a good uh Poison so maybe that poison is a good uh Catalyst for invention so who Catalyst for invention so who Catalyst for invention so who were the early first sort of mother were the early first sort of mother were the early first sort of mother cultures mother civilizations in South cultures mother civilizations in South cultures mother civilizations in South America and like what what is if we look America and like what what is if we look America and like what what is if we look Chron Chron Chron logically is there a label we can put on logically is there a label we can put on logically is there a label we can put on the first peoples that the first peoples that the first peoples that emerged that picture is evolving I mean emerged that picture is evolving I mean emerged that picture is evolving I mean forever it was just the shaveen people forever it was just the shaveen people forever it was just the shaveen people that we've been talking about the ones that we've been talking about the ones that we've been talking about the ones with all the first depictions of with all the first depictions of with all the first depictions of religious art were the mother culture religious art were the mother culture religious art were the mother culture and they certainly did transmit a lot of and they certainly did transmit a lot of and they certainly did transmit a lot of stuff but then all of a sudden we find stuff but then all of a sudden we find stuff but then all of a sudden we find uh Coral the next one that we've barely uh Coral the next one that we've barely uh Coral the next one that we've barely even begun looking at but it's probably even begun looking at but it's probably even begun looking at but it's probably older than Coral is saen culture I was

older than Coral is saen culture I was older than Coral is saen culture I was just poking around there last year and just poking around there last year and just poking around there last year and just just from the bus on the highway I just just from the bus on the highway I just just from the bus on the highway I could see like that's a pyramid out could see like that's a pyramid out could see like that's a pyramid out there what oh there's another one and I there what oh there's another one and I there what oh there's another one and I know how old the stuff we have studied know how old the stuff we have studied know how old the stuff we have studied there is it's again 3,000 BC we're just there is it's again 3,000 BC we're just there is it's again 3,000 BC we're just barely beginning to understand them barely beginning to understand them barely beginning to understand them Coral frustrates me to no end the lack Coral frustrates me to no end the lack Coral frustrates me to no end the lack of art there that's we've got you know of art there that's we've got you know of art there that's we've got you know stones and bones and not even Ceramics stones and bones and not even Ceramics stones and bones and not even Ceramics to go on and they didn't have the to go on and they didn't have the to go on and they didn't have the courtesy to leave me a bunch of art I courtesy to leave me a bunch of art I courtesy to leave me a bunch of art I can interpret so I don't know what those can interpret so I don't know what those can interpret so I don't know what those people believed right so one of the ways people believed right so one of the ways people believed right so one of the ways to understand what people believe is to understand what people believe is to understand what people believe is looking at the art the stories told looking at the art the stories told looking at the art the stories told through the art and then hopefully uh through the art and then hopefully uh through the art and then hopefully uh deciphering if they were doing any kind deciphering if they were doing any kind deciphering if they were doing any kind of writing that's our most fruitful of writing that's our most fruitful of writing that's our most fruitful place to try to get at this elusive place to try to get at this elusive place to try to get at this elusive ideas yeah and it sucks when they don't ideas yeah and it sucks when they don't ideas yeah and it sucks when they don't have art if we just go back to the have art if we just go back to the have art if we just go back to the Amazon you've mentioned that it's Poss Amazon you've mentioned that it's Poss Amazon you've mentioned that it's Poss ible that there's a law civilization ible that there's a law civilization ible that there's a law civilization that existed in the Amazon so it's that existed in the Amazon so it's that existed in the Amazon so it's carried a lot of names law city of Z or carried a lot of names law city of Z or carried a lot of names law city of Z or elderado do you think it's possible it elderado do you think it's possible it elderado do you think it's possible it existed well city of Z and El Dorado are existed well city of Z and El Dorado are existed well city of Z and El Dorado are in pretty different places the one El in pretty different places the one El in pretty different places the one El Dorado the the ideas of where it is kind Dorado the the ideas of where it is kind Dorado the the ideas of where it is kind of center around towards Colombia okay of center around towards Colombia okay of center around towards Colombia okay and city of Z is named after a region of and city of Z is named after a region of and city of Z is named after a region of Brazil called the shingu mhm and so Brazil called the shingu mhm and so Brazil called the shingu mhm and so those those are those those are those those are uh a an America worth of distance apart

uh a an America worth of distance apart uh a an America worth of distance apart you know the entire people don't really you know the entire people don't really you know the entire people don't really think about it on the map but the entire think about it on the map but the entire think about it on the map but the entire United States would fit inside the United States would fit inside the United States would fit inside the Amazon that's how big that place is yeah Amazon that's how big that place is yeah Amazon that's how big that place is yeah and these two are on either end but both and these two are on either end but both and these two are on either end but both of them have evidence of civilizations of them have evidence of civilizations of them have evidence of civilizations these big you know it's it's it's these big you know it's it's it's these big you know it's it's it's lowland and it floods all the time so lowland and it floods all the time so lowland and it floods all the time so what they did is they'd make these big what they did is they'd make these big what they did is they'd make these big mounds and then they'd make huge C mounds and then they'd make huge C mounds and then they'd make huge C causeways between Mounds so they could causeways between Mounds so they could causeways between Mounds so they could walk through their cities while they walk through their cities while they walk through their cities while they were seasonally inundated and a bunch of were seasonally inundated and a bunch of were seasonally inundated and a bunch of that stuff has been found in the shingu that stuff has been found in the shingu that stuff has been found in the shingu area like huge areas that would support area like huge areas that would support area like huge areas that would support tens of thousands of people again you tens of thousands of people again you tens of thousands of people again you know it's not stone-built know it's not stone-built know it's not stone-built and it's been under the forest forever and it's been under the forest forever and it's been under the forest forever so it's very torn up but it's there now so it's very torn up but it's there now so it's very torn up but it's there now you know Brazil is big on uh cattle you know Brazil is big on uh cattle you know Brazil is big on uh cattle farming more than ever now and a a thing farming more than ever now and a a thing farming more than ever now and a a thing that I think is completed now was Brazil that I think is completed now was Brazil that I think is completed now was Brazil and Bolivia partnered together and built and Bolivia partnered together and built and Bolivia partnered together and built a highway all the way a highway all the way a highway all the way across and opened up a whole bunch more across and opened up a whole bunch more across and opened up a whole bunch more land which has found more of these what land which has found more of these what land which has found more of these what we call like uh geometric Earthworks so we call like uh geometric Earthworks so we call like uh geometric Earthworks so there's more and more evidence of these there's more and more evidence of these there's more and more evidence of these civilizations it's not a it's not it civilizations it's not a it's not it civilizations it's not a it's not it could be there it's there for sure by could be there it's there for sure by could be there it's there for sure by the way the people who are trying to the way the people who are trying to the way the people who are trying to protect the rainforest really hate the protect the rainforest really hate the protect the rainforest really hate the highway one of the things I learned is highway one of the things I learned is highway one of the things I learned is if you build a if you build a if you build a Road uh loggers will come yep and they

Road uh loggers will come yep and they Road uh loggers will come yep and they will start cutting stuff down now from will start cutting stuff down now from will start cutting stuff down now from an archaeology perspective if you cut an archaeology perspective if you cut an archaeology perspective if you cut down trees you get to discover things down trees you get to discover things down trees you get to discover things but from a sort of protective very but from a sort of protective very but from a sort of protective very precious rainforest perspective it's precious rainforest perspective it's precious rainforest perspective it's obviously the opposite way but it is obviously the opposite way but it is obviously the opposite way but it is interesting I've seen where loggers cut interesting I've seen where loggers cut interesting I've seen where loggers cut through the forest and then they uh and through the forest and then they uh and through the forest and then they uh and when they leave the forest heals itself when they leave the forest heals itself when they leave the forest heals itself very quickly so quickly and you know you very quickly so quickly and you know you very quickly so quickly and you know you just think that across just think that across just think that across decades you expand that to decades you expand that to decades you expand that to centuries and it's like you could see centuries and it's like you could see centuries and it's like you could see how a civilization can be completely how a civilization can be completely how a civilization can be completely swallowed up by the swallowed up by the swallowed up by the rainforest and it happened for sure in rainforest and it happened for sure in rainforest and it happened for sure in the Amazon yeah you know there one of the Amazon yeah you know there one of the Amazon yeah you know there one of the ways that we're trying to push the the ways that we're trying to push the the ways that we're trying to push the frontier of where people were in the frontier of where people were in the frontier of where people were in the Amazon cuz yes the uh the trees and just Amazon cuz yes the uh the trees and just Amazon cuz yes the uh the trees and just the biomass the biomass the biomass eaten so much evidence but they're eaten so much evidence but they're eaten so much evidence but they're finding more and more of these places finding more and more of these places finding more and more of these places that they call uh Terra Preta which is that they call uh Terra Preta which is that they call uh Terra Preta which is Black Earth and they're huge swaths of Black Earth and they're huge swaths of Black Earth and they're huge swaths of it so uh I guess the anthropology term it so uh I guess the anthropology term it so uh I guess the anthropology term is anthropogenic is anthropogenic is anthropogenic Landscapes and what they're saying is Landscapes and what they're saying is Landscapes and what they're saying is that that really dark Earth couldn't that that really dark Earth couldn't that that really dark Earth couldn't have just got that way through natural have just got that way through natural have just got that way through natural Forest processes that sometime in the Forest processes that sometime in the Forest processes that sometime in the distant past that for Forest wasn't distant past that for Forest wasn't distant past that for Forest wasn't there and there was Major farming and there and there was Major farming and there and there was Major farming and human activity to the point where they

human activity to the point where they human activity to the point where they totally turned the soil Black and it's totally turned the soil Black and it's totally turned the soil Black and it's much more much more much more enriched and uh when I when I took a enriched and uh when I when I took a enriched and uh when I when I took a trip into the Amazon I took I went from trip into the Amazon I took I went from trip into the Amazon I took I went from manous up the river the Black River a manous up the river the Black River a manous up the river the Black River a couple of days and went and met some couple of days and went and met some couple of days and went and met some different communities and I asked them different communities and I asked them different communities and I asked them about this black Earth and they were about this black Earth and they were about this black Earth and they were like yeah that's why we're here like yeah that's why we're here like yeah that's why we're here sometimes we move our village but when sometimes we move our village but when sometimes we move our village but when we move we look for the Tera pretta and we move we look for the Tera pretta and we move we look for the Tera pretta and that's where we're going to put our that's where we're going to put our that's where we're going to put our village because that's a place that all village because that's a place that all village because that's a place that all of our Gardens work the other places of our Gardens work the other places of our Gardens work the other places they don't one of the things you talked they don't one of the things you talked they don't one of the things you talked about literally just asked you have to about literally just asked you have to about literally just asked you have to ask the right question and uh the ask the right question and uh the ask the right question and uh the stories all the all the secrets are stories all the all the secrets are stories all the all the secrets are carried by the people and they will tell carried by the people and they will tell carried by the people and they will tell you yeah there's so many of them you you yeah there's so many of them you you yeah there's so many of them you know they a thing that excites the world know they a thing that excites the world know they a thing that excites the world about archology right now is gockley Tee about archology right now is gockley Tee about archology right now is gockley Tee and this you know 10,000 now Karan Tey and this you know 10,000 now Karan Tey and this you know 10,000 now Karan Tey is 11,000 the whole area is called the is 11,000 the whole area is called the is 11,000 the whole area is called the tosser we only found it a couple of tosser we only found it a couple of tosser we only found it a couple of decades ago but it was just you know a decades ago but it was just you know a decades ago but it was just you know a archaeologist rowing through the area archaeologist rowing through the area archaeologist rowing through the area and ask his sheep H her hey you know you and ask his sheep H her hey you know you and ask his sheep H her hey you know you guys know where anything ancient is oh guys know where anything ancient is oh guys know where anything ancient is oh yeah let me let me show you this and yeah let me let me show you this and yeah let me let me show you this and then all of a sudden We've Got A Lost then all of a sudden We've Got A Lost then all of a sudden We've Got A Lost Civilization and the and the Shepherds Civilization and the and the Shepherds Civilization and the and the Shepherds always knew where it was just nobody always knew where it was just nobody always knew where it was just nobody asked him so speaking of go back tape uh asked him so speaking of go back tape uh asked him so speaking of go back tape uh what do you think about the work of what do you think about the work of what do you think about the work of Graham Hancock who also believes that uh Graham Hancock who also believes that uh Graham Hancock who also believes that uh There's A Lost Civilization in the There's A Lost Civilization in the There's A Lost Civilization in the Amazon well uh I've met Graham and

Amazon well uh I've met Graham and Amazon well uh I've met Graham and personally I like him he's a nice guy personally I like him he's a nice guy personally I like him he's a nice guy got a nice sense of humor and I think got a nice sense of humor and I think got a nice sense of humor and I think he's he's he's smart um and and I also think he is a smart um and and I also think he is a smart um and and I also think he is a very good researcher he and I are very good researcher he and I are very good researcher he and I are working on the same set of facts the working on the same set of facts the working on the same set of facts the differences are interpretations I do not differences are interpretations I do not differences are interpretations I do not believe Graham's uh idea that a single believe Graham's uh idea that a single believe Graham's uh idea that a single now lost ancient civilization seated the now lost ancient civilization seated the now lost ancient civilization seated the rest of them I just don't see that on a rest of them I just don't see that on a rest of them I just don't see that on a number of levels artifact WISE number of levels artifact WISE number of levels artifact WISE Technology wise art historical Technology wise art historical Technology wise art historical analysis so I think his research is analysis so I think his research is analysis so I think his research is great um I think that he's he's very great um I think that he's he's very great um I think that he's he's very well read in fact better read than a lot well read in fact better read than a lot well read in fact better read than a lot of my colleagues but uh his conclusions of my colleagues but uh his conclusions of my colleagues but uh his conclusions I disagree with and he and I have talked I disagree with and he and I have talked I disagree with and he and I have talked about this and uh had a very civil and about this and uh had a very civil and about this and uh had a very civil and normal conversation about it and agreed normal conversation about it and agreed normal conversation about it and agreed to disag agree without spitting any to disag agree without spitting any to disag agree without spitting any Venom at any point in the conversation Venom at any point in the conversation Venom at any point in the conversation that would be a fun uh argument to be a that would be a fun uh argument to be a that would be a fun uh argument to be a flying the wall for uh so he he believes flying the wall for uh so he he believes flying the wall for uh so he he believes he's proposed it's possible that the he's proposed it's possible that the he's proposed it's possible that the Amazon jungle is um sort of a man-made Amazon jungle is um sort of a man-made Amazon jungle is um sort of a man-made Garden so it was planted there by Garden so it was planted there by Garden so it was planted there by Advanced ancient civilization is there Advanced ancient civilization is there Advanced ancient civilization is there any degree to which that could be any degree to which that could be any degree to which that could be possible frankly I agree with him I mean possible frankly I agree with him I mean possible frankly I agree with him I mean it's just like what I was just talking it's just like what I was just talking it's just like what I was just talking about that the it's the conclusion part about that the it's the conclusion part about that the it's the conclusion part that we differ from sure but the facts that we differ from sure but the facts that we differ from sure but the facts that he's basing that on are that Tera

that he's basing that on are that Tera that he's basing that on are that Tera pretta are the huge geometric Earthworks pretta are the huge geometric Earthworks pretta are the huge geometric Earthworks are the ever increasing evidence of them are the ever increasing evidence of them are the ever increasing evidence of them they are now from you know the bottom of they are now from you know the bottom of they are now from you know the bottom of Bolivia to uh Guyana they're everywhere Bolivia to uh Guyana they're everywhere Bolivia to uh Guyana they're everywhere every time we open up the jungle we find every time we open up the jungle we find every time we open up the jungle we find these big works so yes there was a vast these big works so yes there was a vast these big works so yes there was a vast civilization that was there how advanced civilization that was there how advanced civilization that was there how advanced they were they were they were is uh is a question and also you know a is uh is a question and also you know a is uh is a question and also you know a perspective thing perspective thing perspective thing Graham really focuses in on what we Graham really focuses in on what we Graham really focuses in on what we don't know and what could be what's the don't know and what could be what's the don't know and what could be what's the just to educate me what's what's the key just to educate me what's what's the key just to educate me what's what's the key idea that he's proposing that you idea that he's proposing that you idea that he's proposing that you disagree with is it it was the level of disagree with is it it was the level of disagree with is it it was the level of advancement the civilization was or how advancement the civilization was or how advancement the civilization was or how large and centralized it was uh my main large and centralized it was uh my main large and centralized it was uh my main point of disagreement is that his and point of disagreement is that his and point of disagreement is that his and his ideas evolve like everybody's you his ideas evolve like everybody's you his ideas evolve like everybody's you know no no scientist or researcher in know no no scientist or researcher in know no no scientist or researcher in anything has an idea at the beginning of anything has an idea at the beginning of anything has an idea at the beginning of their career and holds it till the day their career and holds it till the day their career and holds it till the day they die his ideas are evolving but his they die his ideas are evolving but his they die his ideas are evolving but his ideas remain a core of them are that ideas remain a core of them are that ideas remain a core of them are that there was a very Advanced single ancient there was a very Advanced single ancient there was a very Advanced single ancient civilization that was utterly destroyed civilization that was utterly destroyed civilization that was utterly destroyed by climactic conditions and uh the by climactic conditions and uh the by climactic conditions and uh the younger drier uh dest hypothesis is part younger drier uh dest hypothesis is part younger drier uh dest hypothesis is part of that most recently he used to not say of that most recently he used to not say of that most recently he used to not say that now he's into this meteor thing MH that now he's into this meteor thing MH that now he's into this meteor thing MH but he believes that That civilization

but he believes that That civilization but he believes that That civilization was destroyed but that uh members of it was destroyed but that uh members of it was destroyed but that uh members of it escaped this cataclysm and then spread escaped this cataclysm and then spread escaped this cataclysm and then spread out all over the world to seed all of out all over the world to seed all of out all over the world to seed all of the world the world the world Civilizations for the next Revival Civilizations for the next Revival Civilizations for the next Revival there's where I disagree with him I there's where I disagree with him I there's where I disagree with him I think these were think these were think these were independent civilizations that grew up independent civilizations that grew up independent civilizations that grew up uh in their own ways that they were not uh in their own ways that they were not uh in their own ways that they were not seated by some more advanced seated by some more advanced seated by some more advanced civilization from the past and that they civilization from the past and that they civilization from the past and that they all hold things in common because they all hold things in common because they all hold things in common because they have this common ancestry of a you know have this common ancestry of a you know have this common ancestry of a you know in his early books he suggested it the in his early books he suggested it the in his early books he suggested it the it's Atlantis I don't think he suggests it's Atlantis I don't think he suggests it's Atlantis I don't think he suggests that anymore but he still hangs on to that anymore but he still hangs on to that anymore but he still hangs on to the single Advanced now completely lost the single Advanced now completely lost the single Advanced now completely lost civilization and you know archaeology we civilization and you know archaeology we civilization and you know archaeology we don't have you know we're all of our don't have you know we're all of our don't have you know we're all of our ideas are theories very few of them are ideas are theories very few of them are ideas are theories very few of them are facts and we're not you know we could facts and we're not you know we could facts and we're not you know we could have the story wrong but one thing we're have the story wrong but one thing we're have the story wrong but one thing we're real good at is finding stuff I mean we real good at is finding stuff I mean we real good at is finding stuff I mean we find fish scales so I find it just too find fish scales so I find it just too find fish scales so I find it just too big a pill to swallow that there was a big a pill to swallow that there was a big a pill to swallow that there was a civilization that was that civilization that was that civilization that was that technologically advanced and that large technologically advanced and that large technologically advanced and that large that we can't even find a pot shirt that we can't even find a pot shirt that we can't even find a pot shirt from from from yeah and of course it is a compelling yeah and of course it is a compelling yeah and of course it is a compelling story that there's a single civilization story that there's a single civilization story that there's a single civilization from which all of this came from which all of this came from which all of this came from because the alternative is you know

from because the alternative is you know from because the alternative is you know the idea that we came across the bearing the idea that we came across the bearing the idea that we came across the bearing straight from Asia went all the way down straight from Asia went all the way down straight from Asia went all the way down to South America and got isolated and to South America and got isolated and to South America and got isolated and created all these marvelous created all these marvelous created all these marvelous sophisticated civilizations and ideas sophisticated civilizations and ideas sophisticated civilizations and ideas including religious ideas that look including religious ideas that look including religious ideas that look similar to other you know everybody has similar to other you know everybody has similar to other you know everybody has a flood myth right right so like there's a flood myth right right so like there's a flood myth right right so like there's a lot of similarities everybody building a lot of similarities everybody building a lot of similarities everybody building pyramids yeah uh but there could be a lot of yeah uh but there could be a lot of other explanations and for uh even if other explanations and for uh even if other explanations and for uh even if it's a simple compelling explanation it's a simple compelling explanation it's a simple compelling explanation there has to be evidence for it right there has to be evidence for it right there has to be evidence for it right and what would that evidence that's the and what would that evidence that's the and what would that evidence that's the bottom line I mean everything's theories bottom line I mean everything's theories bottom line I mean everything's theories were and and as responsible scientists were and and as responsible scientists were and and as responsible scientists we're trying to disprove our theories we we're trying to disprove our theories we we're trying to disprove our theories we are not supposed to be trying to prove are not supposed to be trying to prove are not supposed to be trying to prove our theories that's that's one more foot our theories that's that's one more foot our theories that's that's one more foot out of the science box that archaeology out of the science box that archaeology out of the science box that archaeology often steps we're we're supposed to be often steps we're we're supposed to be often steps we're we're supposed to be disproving what we think is happening disproving what we think is happening disproving what we think is happening not proving it yeah you don't want to not proving it yeah you don't want to not proving it yeah you don't want to lean into the lean into the lean into the mystery too much I mean most of it's mystery too much I mean most of it's mystery too much I mean most of it's such a it's such a weird discipline such a it's such a weird discipline such a it's such a weird discipline because you're operating in a it's like because you're operating in a it's like because you're operating in a it's like really in a dark room you're feeling really in a dark room you're feeling really in a dark room you're feeling around a dark room so it's mostly around a dark room so it's mostly around a dark room so it's mostly mystery I would say a lot of Sciences op mystery I would say a lot of Sciences op mystery I would say a lot of Sciences op great in a mostly well lit room it's great in a mostly well lit room it's great in a mostly well lit room it's like a dark like a dark like a dark corner and you're kind of uh figuring corner and you're kind of uh figuring corner and you're kind of uh figuring out a way to light it but in yeah in

out a way to light it but in yeah in out a way to light it but in yeah in archaeology it's most of it is a mystery archaeology it's most of it is a mystery archaeology it's most of it is a mystery right yes it's job security I like that right yes it's job security I like that right yes it's job security I like that part you know but I I do also try to part you know but I I do also try to part you know but I I do also try to always remind myself that every Paradigm always remind myself that every Paradigm always remind myself that every Paradigm shifting idea that humans has have ever shifting idea that humans has have ever shifting idea that humans has have ever had began as heresy and lunacy you know had began as heresy and lunacy you know had began as heresy and lunacy you know that guy was crazy up to the second he that guy was crazy up to the second he that guy was crazy up to the second he was brilliant and so we got to keep our was brilliant and so we got to keep our was brilliant and so we got to keep our minds open to the things that sound minds open to the things that sound minds open to the things that sound outlandish because one of them outlandish because one of them outlandish because one of them eventually is going to lead us to the eventually is going to lead us to the eventually is going to lead us to the big paradigm shift and if we you know if big paradigm shift and if we you know if big paradigm shift and if we you know if we're busy burning books of ideas that we're busy burning books of ideas that we're busy burning books of ideas that we don't like that's where we close our we don't like that's where we close our we don't like that's where we close our minds to the possibility of advancing minds to the possibility of advancing minds to the possibility of advancing things I really love that and I really things I really love that and I really things I really love that and I really appreciate that you're saying that um appreciate that you're saying that um appreciate that you're saying that um one of the fascinating things about one of the fascinating things about one of the fascinating things about just the Amazon to me is that there's just the Amazon to me is that there's just the Amazon to me is that there's still a large number of uncontacted still a large number of uncontacted still a large number of uncontacted tribes as to rewind back into ancient tribes as to rewind back into ancient tribes as to rewind back into ancient history you can imagine all of these history you can imagine all of these history you can imagine all of these tribes that existed in the Amazon that tribes that existed in the Amazon that tribes that existed in the Amazon that were uh isolated very sort of distinct were uh isolated very sort of distinct were uh isolated very sort of distinct from each other can you speak to this from each other can you speak to this from each other can you speak to this your understanding of these uh tribes your understanding of these uh tribes your understanding of these uh tribes and their history that are still here and their history that are still here and their history that are still here today well a a lot of them are these you today well a a lot of them are these you today well a a lot of them are these you know by uncontacted we mean we don't know by uncontacted we mean we don't know by uncontacted we mean we don't know anything about these guys we know know anything about these guys we know know anything about these guys we know roughly where they are but places like roughly where they are but places like roughly where they are but places like Ecuador have very responsible policies Ecuador have very responsible policies Ecuador have very responsible policies where no one's allowed to go contact

where no one's allowed to go contact where no one's allowed to go contact them so we have a dir of information if them so we have a dir of information if them so we have a dir of information if they walk out of the Jungle and talk to they walk out of the Jungle and talk to they walk out of the Jungle and talk to us that's one thing but we don't go out us that's one thing but we don't go out us that's one thing but we don't go out there looking for them but they do seem there looking for them but they do seem there looking for them but they do seem you know Frozen in time and I don't you know Frozen in time and I don't you know Frozen in time and I don't think any of us have a good estimation think any of us have a good estimation think any of us have a good estimation of how long they've been like that but of how long they've been like that but of how long they've been like that but you know we were saying earlier that you you know we were saying earlier that you you know we were saying earlier that you you know humans change based on you know humans change based on you know humans change based on pressures of their environment you know pressures of their environment you know pressures of their environment you know it's a mother necessity is often times it's a mother necessity is often times it's a mother necessity is often times how we invent things or why we change how we invent things or why we change how we invent things or why we change it's it's it's pressure and one thing the Amazon is pressure and one thing the Amazon is pressure and one thing the Amazon is once you you know figure out how not to once you you know figure out how not to once you you know figure out how not to die in it it's a paradise of food food's die in it it's a paradise of food food's die in it it's a paradise of food food's fallen from the sky all the time there fallen from the sky all the time there fallen from the sky all the time there and if once you learn to adapt to that and if once you learn to adapt to that and if once you learn to adapt to that environment you've got very little need environment you've got very little need environment you've got very little need there's no pressure to make anything there's no pressure to make anything there's no pressure to make anything else things are working so for the else things are working so for the else things are working so for the modern humans that come across these modern humans that come across these modern humans that come across these uncontacted tribes one of the things uncontacted tribes one of the things uncontacted tribes one of the things they document and notice is the they document and notice is the they document and notice is the propensity of these tribes for violence propensity of these tribes for violence propensity of these tribes for violence so they get very aggressive in in so they get very aggressive in in so they get very aggressive in in attacking whoever they come across and attacking whoever they come across and attacking whoever they come across and not just foreigners they attack each not just foreigners they attack each not just foreigners they attack each other the yanam mama are famous for just other the yanam mama are famous for just other the yanam mama are famous for just having NeverEnding feuds with each other having NeverEnding feuds with each other having NeverEnding feuds with each other what do you think is the philosophy what do you think is the philosophy what do you think is the philosophy behind that behind that behind that I don't you know I I'm a relatively I don't you know I I'm a relatively I don't you know I I'm a relatively peaceful person but I've got you know peaceful person but I've got you know peaceful person but I've got you know I've got the monster in me like I've got the monster in me like I've got the monster in me like everybody everybody everybody does and uh I I think that these you

does and uh I I think that these you does and uh I I think that these you know it's know it's know it's cultural norms that become cultural norms that become cultural norms that become institutionalized for the yanam Mamo institutionalized for the yanam Mamo institutionalized for the yanam Mamo they really part of the P the right of they really part of the P the right of they really part of the P the right of passage to be a man is to go kill or passage to be a man is to go kill or passage to be a man is to go kill or maim somebody from an outer Village and maim somebody from an outer Village and maim somebody from an outer Village and they go in there they they often time they go in there they they often time they go in there they they often time times uh the the way they don't let uh times uh the the way they don't let uh times uh the the way they don't let uh inbreeding set in and ruin everybody not inbreeding set in and ruin everybody not inbreeding set in and ruin everybody not that they think of it scientifically but that they think of it scientifically but that they think of it scientifically but they they typically go and steal women they they typically go and steal women they they typically go and steal women from far off communities and that starts from far off communities and that starts from far off communities and that starts a big fight uh another thing that starts a big fight uh another thing that starts a big fight uh another thing that starts fights that when nobody even fought is fights that when nobody even fought is fights that when nobody even fought is illness illness in the Amazon and all of illness illness in the Amazon and all of illness illness in the Amazon and all of the ancient Americas wasn't seen as a the ancient Americas wasn't seen as a the ancient Americas wasn't seen as a biological thing it was a spiritual biological thing it was a spiritual biological thing it was a spiritual thing so if somebody in your village thing so if somebody in your village thing so if somebody in your village gets sick the question is asked well gets sick the question is asked well gets sick the question is asked well what spirit is menacing him and who what spirit is menacing him and who what spirit is menacing him and who called it out on him and then the rumor called it out on him and then the rumor called it out on him and then the rumor starts well I bet you it was Joe over starts well I bet you it was Joe over starts well I bet you it was Joe over there in that other community still there in that other community still there in that other community still pissed off for that time when we stole pissed off for that time when we stole pissed off for that time when we stole his daughter yeah and we ought to go his daughter yeah and we ought to go his daughter yeah and we ought to go over there and kill Joe and then he'll over there and kill Joe and then he'll over there and kill Joe and then he'll get get get better and so this this uh this round of better and so this this uh this round of better and so this this uh this round of NeverEnding violence uh like Hatfields NeverEnding violence uh like Hatfields NeverEnding violence uh like Hatfields and McCoys had that thing and the uh the and McCoys had that thing and the uh the and McCoys had that thing and the uh the people of uh New Guinea also do that so people of uh New Guinea also do that so people of uh New Guinea also do that so it's not you know there are certain it's not you know there are certain it's not you know there are certain areas uh mostly wooded areas now that I areas uh mostly wooded areas now that I areas uh mostly wooded areas now that I think about it where people just hide think about it where people just hide think about it where people just hide out and they attack each other as a

out and they attack each other as a out and they attack each other as a cultural uh cultural uh cultural uh institution it's such a tricky thing to institution it's such a tricky thing to institution it's such a tricky thing to do to study an uncontacted tribe without do to study an uncontacted tribe without do to study an uncontacted tribe without obviously contacting them to figure out obviously contacting them to figure out obviously contacting them to figure out their language their philosophy of Mind their language their philosophy of Mind their language their philosophy of Mind how they communicate the hierarchy they how they communicate the hierarchy they how they communicate the hierarchy they operate under and yeah you know there operate under and yeah you know there operate under and yeah you know there was a fascinating story in Peru I guess was a fascinating story in Peru I guess was a fascinating story in Peru I guess it was probably like 8 years ago or it was probably like 8 years ago or it was probably like 8 years ago or something but there was a a ranger from something but there was a a ranger from something but there was a a ranger from one of the biology stations who just in one of the biology stations who just in one of the biology stations who just in the buy and buy of uh protecting his the buy and buy of uh protecting his the buy and buy of uh protecting his area met one of these uncontacted tribes area met one of these uncontacted tribes area met one of these uncontacted tribes and befriended someone not the whole and befriended someone not the whole and befriended someone not the whole tribe but he made some friends who would tribe but he made some friends who would tribe but he made some friends who would meet him in the woods not in their meet him in the woods not in their meet him in the woods not in their community and he started to learn their community and he started to learn their community and he started to learn their language over a couple language over a couple language over a couple years and so he was this kind of years and so he was this kind of years and so he was this kind of important guy who actually could be the important guy who actually could be the important guy who actually could be the first translator to talk to these people first translator to talk to these people first translator to talk to these people and one day a couple of them just came and one day a couple of them just came and one day a couple of them just came out of the woods and just plugged him out of the woods and just plugged him out of the woods and just plugged him with arrows and just killed him and then with arrows and just killed him and then with arrows and just killed him and then they went back in the woods like that's they went back in the woods like that's they went back in the woods like that's the one guy who understands what we're the one guy who understands what we're the one guy who understands what we're saying we should kill him and move our saying we should kill him and move our saying we should kill him and move our village so those folks really lean into village so those folks really lean into village so those folks really lean into the uh as you said the monster versus the uh as you said the monster versus the uh as you said the monster versus the uh the puppy you know everybody's the uh the puppy you know everybody's the uh the puppy you know everybody's got it I I I think I think uh you know got it I I I think I think uh you know got it I I I think I think uh you know we we we we need to listen to our better Angels we need to listen to our better Angels we need to listen to our better Angels because if we don't we we we as a human because if we don't we we we as a human because if we don't we we we as a human species can easily devolve into just species can easily devolve into just species can easily devolve into just using violence and against others to get using violence and against others to get using violence and against others to get what we want we it's a it's a daily

what we want we it's a it's a daily what we want we it's a it's a daily choice we make not to be Savages which choice we make not to be Savages which choice we make not to be Savages which is a fascinating thing to remember we is a fascinating thing to remember we is a fascinating thing to remember we kind of think in civilized society we've kind of think in civilized society we've kind of think in civilized society we've moved past all that but it can uh it can moved past all that but it can uh it can moved past all that but it can uh it can be be be summoned like in uh uh 1984 the two summoned like in uh uh 1984 the two summoned like in uh uh 1984 the two minutes of minutes of minutes of hate with the right hate with the right hate with the right words that primal thing can be summoned words that primal thing can be summoned words that primal thing can be summoned and and and directed uh and lead to a lot of directed uh and lead to a lot of directed uh and lead to a lot of Destruction and you know our our sports Destruction and you know our our sports Destruction and you know our our sports are really based on taking those kinds are really based on taking those kinds are really based on taking those kinds of urges and channeling them positive of urges and channeling them positive of urges and channeling them positive where somebody's not dead at the end of where somebody's not dead at the end of where somebody's not dead at the end of it yep uh it yep uh it yep uh so at which so at which so at which point did what we now call the Maya point did what we now call the Maya point did what we now call the Maya civilization civilization civilization arise Ah that's a that's another arise Ah that's a that's another arise Ah that's a that's another complicated one another group living complicated one another group living complicated one another group living mostly in a jungle that we have barely mostly in a jungle that we have barely mostly in a jungle that we have barely begun to explore you know the truth is a begun to explore you know the truth is a begun to explore you know the truth is a lot of the questions in the Amazon and lot of the questions in the Amazon and lot of the questions in the Amazon and and what we're talking about now is the and what we're talking about now is the and what we're talking about now is the paten and the mountains there those paten and the mountains there those paten and the mountains there those aren't places archaeologists want to aren't places archaeologists want to aren't places archaeologists want to live they're horrible I mean I've been live they're horrible I mean I've been live they're horrible I mean I've been there I don't want to live in a tent and there I don't want to live in a tent and there I don't want to live in a tent and eat rations I want to live in a nice eat rations I want to live in a nice eat rations I want to live in a nice town so a lot of the places where the town so a lot of the places where the town so a lot of the places where the answers are we still really haven't answers are we still really haven't answers are we still really haven't gotten there cuz it takes a special gotten there cuz it takes a special gotten there cuz it takes a special person to be educated enough to know person to be educated enough to know person to be educated enough to know what they're looking at and tough enough what they're looking at and tough enough what they're looking at and tough enough to want to be there I've done my tour to want to be there I've done my tour to want to be there I've done my tour Duty I'm now in a nice little podcast

Duty I'm now in a nice little podcast Duty I'm now in a nice little podcast studio um but seriously the the Maya the studio um but seriously the the Maya the studio um but seriously the the Maya the first hint that we see people who are first hint that we see people who are first hint that we see people who are culturally mayia very close to where the culturally mayia very close to where the culturally mayia very close to where the time period for that chaven culture is time period for that chaven culture is time period for that chaven culture is about 1,800 CE there's a culture that about 1,800 CE there's a culture that about 1,800 CE there's a culture that some call the mkaya not Maya but uh some call the mkaya not Maya but uh some call the mkaya not Maya but uh they're on the Pacific coast uh where they're on the Pacific coast uh where they're on the Pacific coast uh where Guatemala and Mexico connect it's called Guatemala and Mexico connect it's called Guatemala and Mexico connect it's called the the the soconusco and those are the first people soconusco and those are the first people soconusco and those are the first people that are really going to be culturally that are really going to be culturally that are really going to be culturally Maya and they're interacting with the Maya and they're interacting with the Maya and they're interacting with the culture that has traditionally been seen culture that has traditionally been seen culture that has traditionally been seen as Mexico's Mother culture which is the as Mexico's Mother culture which is the as Mexico's Mother culture which is the MCH they're kind of the same thing as we MCH they're kind of the same thing as we MCH they're kind of the same thing as we were talking about in South America were talking about in South America were talking about in South America where the the Maya the original Maya are where the the Maya the original Maya are where the the Maya the original Maya are not there's not a whole lot to indicate not there's not a whole lot to indicate not there's not a whole lot to indicate that they have a that they have a that they have a religion um but thech have this religion religion um but thech have this religion religion um but thech have this religion they develop and they start exporting it they develop and they start exporting it they develop and they start exporting it and you see the Maya become more and and you see the Maya become more and and you see the Maya become more and more involved in in the religion that's more involved in in the religion that's more involved in in the religion that's being created by The olch Who are to the being created by The olch Who are to the being created by The olch Who are to the north of them in the swamps of what we north of them in the swamps of what we north of them in the swamps of what we call the ismos of tantek I have a lot of call the ismos of tantek I have a lot of call the ismos of tantek I have a lot of questions to ask here about just a questions to ask here about just a questions to ask here about just a natural stupid confusion I have so natural stupid confusion I have so natural stupid confusion I have so first uh did the Maya or the AL come first uh did the Maya or the AL come first uh did the Maya or the AL come first and are they distinct groups like first and are they distinct groups like first and are they distinct groups like how do you maintain a distinct how do you maintain a distinct how do you maintain a distinct civilization when you're so close civilization when you're so close civilization when you're so close together I I just finished filming a together I I just finished filming a together I I just finished filming a whole thing on the OLX and their

whole thing on the OLX and their whole thing on the OLX and their interaction with the Maya for the Great interaction with the Maya for the Great interaction with the Maya for the Great Courses I'm thrilled for it to come out Courses I'm thrilled for it to come out Courses I'm thrilled for it to come out next Spring right um I think they next Spring right um I think they next Spring right um I think they co-evolved archaeology in this regard is co-evolved archaeology in this regard is co-evolved archaeology in this regard is the worst enemy of this so we put these the worst enemy of this so we put these the worst enemy of this so we put these names on cultures we we talk about how names on cultures we we talk about how names on cultures we we talk about how they evolve from one to another we draw they evolve from one to another we draw they evolve from one to another we draw these lines where they're aren't any we these lines where they're aren't any we these lines where they're aren't any we make these time periods that a culture make these time periods that a culture make these time periods that a culture magically transforms into somebody with magically transforms into somebody with magically transforms into somebody with another name where I'm pretty sure they another name where I'm pretty sure they another name where I'm pretty sure they didn't care about any of those names but didn't care about any of those names but didn't care about any of those names but the the Maya and the MCH are two parts the the Maya and the MCH are two parts the the Maya and the MCH are two parts of a larger interaction sphere that's of a larger interaction sphere that's of a larger interaction sphere that's happening in meso America a very Dynamic happening in meso America a very Dynamic happening in meso America a very Dynamic time thech are really bringing the time thech are really bringing the time thech are really bringing the religion part but the other areas are religion part but the other areas are religion part but the other areas are bringing technology ceramic technology bringing technology ceramic technology bringing technology ceramic technology uh making hematite mirrors making uh uh making hematite mirrors making uh uh making hematite mirrors making uh tools out of obsidian and other uh other tools out of obsidian and other uh other tools out of obsidian and other uh other Stone types so you've Stone types so you've Stone types so you've gotch in the Middle where where Mexico gotch in the Middle where where Mexico gotch in the Middle where where Mexico gets skinny and it gets swampy down gets skinny and it gets swampy down gets skinny and it gets swampy down there that's called the ismos of tanek there that's called the ismos of tanek there that's called the ismos of tanek that's where thech are then you've got that's where thech are then you've got that's where thech are then you've got the Maya to the east of them then you the Maya to the east of them then you the Maya to the east of them then you have the valley of Waka where the people have the valley of Waka where the people have the valley of Waka where the people called the zapex they're rising up and called the zapex they're rising up and called the zapex they're rising up and then you have the valley of Mexico which then you have the valley of Mexico which then you have the valley of Mexico which will eventually become the Aztecs but will eventually become the Aztecs but will eventually become the Aztecs but not for Millennia all those areas are not for Millennia all those areas are not for Millennia all those areas are interacting with each other can we just interacting with each other can we just interacting with each other can we just also draw some more also draw some more also draw some more lines yeah sure so what is meso Amica

lines yeah sure so what is meso Amica lines yeah sure so what is meso Amica and what is South and what is South and what is South America uh and what you just said to omx America uh and what you just said to omx America uh and what you just said to omx and the the Maya like can we just Linger and the the Maya like can we just Linger and the the Maya like can we just Linger on the geography graphy that we're on the geography graphy that we're on the geography graphy that we're talking about here in the what is this talking about here in the what is this talking about here in the what is this like a th000 like a th000 like a th000 BC um yeah the time period we're talking BC um yeah the time period we're talking BC um yeah the time period we're talking about where the the olme are there a about where the the olme are there a about where the the olme are there a 1,000 BC is a great uh midpoint of it 1,000 BC is a great uh midpoint of it 1,000 BC is a great uh midpoint of it I'd say it starts about 1800 BCE and by I'd say it starts about 1800 BCE and by I'd say it starts about 1800 BCE and by 500 BCE thech are 500 BCE thech are 500 BCE thech are gone and a whole new wave of gone and a whole new wave of gone and a whole new wave of civilization and population increase civilization and population increase civilization and population increase happen in terms of meso America looking happen in terms of meso America looking happen in terms of meso America looking at your map here I i' say about halfway at your map here I i' say about halfway at your map here I i' say about halfway through the Chihuahua Desert up there in through the Chihuahua Desert up there in through the Chihuahua Desert up there in the top left that's that's about the the top left that's that's about the the top left that's that's about the boundary boundary boundary of uh meso America there's this big of uh meso America there's this big of uh meso America there's this big desert where almost nobody lives and desert where almost nobody lives and desert where almost nobody lives and once you get North enough you get into once you get North enough you get into once you get North enough you get into the ancestral pleo people of what's now the ancestral pleo people of what's now the ancestral pleo people of what's now America the the four corners area America the the four corners area America the the four corners area they're not they're not they're not Mesoamerican they have different lives Mesoamerican they have different lives Mesoamerican they have different lives where does Modern Mexico end modern where does Modern Mexico end modern where does Modern Mexico end modern Mexico ends right you know you see the Mexico ends right you know you see the Mexico ends right you know you see the name Maya there with the white line name Maya there with the white line name Maya there with the white line around it that's Guatemala so Guatemala around it that's Guatemala so Guatemala around it that's Guatemala so Guatemala cuts off most of Mexico from Central cuts off most of Mexico from Central cuts off most of Mexico from Central America got it but meso America only America got it but meso America only America got it but meso America only goes about halfway through goes about halfway through goes about halfway through Honduras and then it's really kind of a Honduras and then it's really kind of a Honduras and then it's really kind of a No Man's Land uh uh Nicaragua Costa Rica No Man's Land uh uh Nicaragua Costa Rica No Man's Land uh uh Nicaragua Costa Rica Panama they really uh they're neither

Panama they really uh they're neither Panama they really uh they're neither they're not meso America they're not they're not meso America they're not they're not meso America they're not South America they're more South America South America they're more South America South America they're more South America because they've got some gold there because they've got some gold there because they've got some gold there but then basically you get on the other but then basically you get on the other but then basically you get on the other side of Panama and you're you're fully side of Panama and you're you're fully side of Panama and you're you're fully in South America with two distinct in South America with two distinct in South America with two distinct groups too you've got the guys that are groups too you've got the guys that are groups too you've got the guys that are on the Andes on the west coast and then on the Andes on the west coast and then on the Andes on the west coast and then you have the you have the you have the Amazon so the the the West the Andes is Amazon so the the the West the Andes is Amazon so the the the West the Andes is and the Amazon are very distinct So when and the Amazon are very distinct So when and the Amazon are very distinct So when you say when you refer to the andian you say when you refer to the andian you say when you refer to the andian region is that referring to the Andes region is that referring to the Andes region is that referring to the Andes and the Amazon or just the Andes just and the Amazon or just the Andes just and the Amazon or just the Andes just the Andes the the and the and the coast the Andes the the and the and the coast the Andes the the and the and the coast that to to the Pacific there that's that to to the Pacific there that's that to to the Pacific there that's that's andian civilization so did the that's andian civilization so did the that's andian civilization so did the Maya make it to the Andes the andian Maya make it to the Andes the andian Maya make it to the Andes the andian region not that archaeology can prove region not that archaeology can prove region not that archaeology can prove but it's almost certain that they but it's almost certain that they but it's almost certain that they interacted with each other number one interacted with each other number one interacted with each other number one it's just you know it's biased to think it's just you know it's biased to think it's just you know it's biased to think that these people couldn't travel as that these people couldn't travel as that these people couldn't travel as widely as people on the other side of widely as people on the other side of widely as people on the other side of the planet did but there's all sorts of the planet did but there's all sorts of the planet did but there's all sorts of hints like uh that first Ceramics I was hints like uh that first Ceramics I was hints like uh that first Ceramics I was talking about that the Maya made they talking about that the Maya made they talking about that the Maya made they show up strangely show up strangely show up strangely uh sophisticated technologically already uh sophisticated technologically already uh sophisticated technologically already and down in in Ecuador they had them for and down in in Ecuador they had them for and down in in Ecuador they had them for a thousand years before so a lot of a thousand years before so a lot of a thousand years before so a lot of people myself included think that the people myself included think that the people myself included think that the idea of Ceramics actually came from idea of Ceramics actually came from idea of Ceramics actually came from South America to the Maya did the Maya South America to the Maya did the Maya South America to the Maya did the Maya get seated by the second wave across the

get seated by the second wave across the get seated by the second wave across the bearing straight or did that initial bearing straight or did that initial bearing straight or did that initial wave of people that came and uh wave of people that came and uh wave of people that came and uh populated South America were they the populated South America were they the populated South America were they the ancestors of of the Maya like how how ancestors of of the Maya like how how ancestors of of the Maya like how how did the migration happen here do we did the migration happen here do we did the migration happen here do we understand that we're still piecing it understand that we're still piecing it understand that we're still piecing it together I don't think you know I'd be together I don't think you know I'd be together I don't think you know I'd be lying if I told you I had the answers lying if I told you I had the answers lying if I told you I had the answers but we do have evidence of Maya stature but we do have evidence of Maya stature but we do have evidence of Maya stature people there are small people generally people there are small people generally people there are small people generally speaking people that grow up in the speaking people that grow up in the speaking people that grow up in the forest are smaller and people that grow forest are smaller and people that grow forest are smaller and people that grow up in the open Plains or taller probably up in the open Plains or taller probably up in the open Plains or taller probably about you know just generations of about you know just generations of about you know just generations of people that hit their head on a branch people that hit their head on a branch people that hit their head on a branch or not or not or not uh you're joking but you know there uh you're joking but you know there uh you're joking but you know there could be something to that I think could be something to that I think could be something to that I think there's some truth to it I mean the there's some truth to it I mean the there's some truth to it I mean the pygmies are small and the people on the pygmies are small and the people on the pygmies are small and the people on the plains in Africa are big the North plains in Africa are big the North plains in Africa are big the North American Indians are tall and the Maya American Indians are tall and the Maya American Indians are tall and the Maya are small it's there is there's are small it's there is there's are small it's there is there's definitely a pattern of smaller people definitely a pattern of smaller people definitely a pattern of smaller people in the in the in the forests but anyway um there's a cave in forests but anyway um there's a cave in forests but anyway um there's a cave in the Yucatan called lolon cave that has the Yucatan called lolon cave that has the Yucatan called lolon cave that has uh handprints in the cave it's somebody uh handprints in the cave it's somebody uh handprints in the cave it's somebody who put their hand on the cave and spit who put their hand on the cave and spit who put their hand on the cave and spit charcoal around their hand like a charcoal around their hand like a charcoal around their hand like a negative print y we can date that negative print y we can date that negative print y we can date that charcoal and it comes from 10,000 years charcoal and it comes from 10,000 years charcoal and it comes from 10,000 years ago wow and the hands are all small it's ago wow and the hands are all small it's ago wow and the hands are all small it's you know typical Old Mexico I I walked you know typical Old Mexico I I walked you know typical Old Mexico I I walked right up to these things and could put right up to these things and could put right up to these things and could put my hand I didn't you know mess with them my hand I didn't you know mess with them my hand I didn't you know mess with them but I put my hand next to these hands but I put my hand next to these hands but I put my hand next to these hands and they're all smaller than my you know

and they're all smaller than my you know and they're all smaller than my you know northern European hand and so either it northern European hand and so either it northern European hand and so either it was a bunch of kids who were in this was a bunch of kids who were in this was a bunch of kids who were in this cave 10,000 years ago or it was people cave 10,000 years ago or it was people cave 10,000 years ago or it was people of Maya stature who did of Maya stature who did of Maya stature who did it so cool that you can date the it so cool that you can date the it so cool that you can date the charcoal and it's so cool that 10,000 charcoal and it's so cool that 10,000 charcoal and it's so cool that 10,000 years ago there are people leaving and years ago there are people leaving and years ago there are people leaving and and actually we have uh one that's I and actually we have uh one that's I and actually we have uh one that's I think 2,000 years older now just a think 2,000 years older now just a think 2,000 years older now just a couple years ago again in Yucatan in a couple years ago again in Yucatan in a couple years ago again in Yucatan in a cave they found a woman they named NAA cave they found a woman they named NAA cave they found a woman they named NAA now and she's like 12,000 years old so now and she's like 12,000 years old so now and she's like 12,000 years old so uh the best guess maybe that you have is uh the best guess maybe that you have is uh the best guess maybe that you have is it goes across the bearing straight to it goes across the bearing straight to it goes across the bearing straight to South America possibly the Amazon South America possibly the Amazon South America possibly the Amazon develop a lot of cool ideas in the develop a lot of cool ideas in the develop a lot of cool ideas in the Amazon and start drifting back up into M Amazon and start drifting back up into M Amazon and start drifting back up into M America was kind of a co-evolution the America was kind of a co-evolution the America was kind of a co-evolution the the technology of Ceramics I think got the technology of Ceramics I think got the technology of Ceramics I think got there through an interaction with see there through an interaction with see there through an interaction with see the interesting thing is that the Maya the interesting thing is that the Maya the interesting thing is that the Maya didn't really have religion didn't have didn't really have religion didn't have didn't really have religion didn't have as a vibrant religious set of ideas and as a vibrant religious set of ideas and as a vibrant religious set of ideas and they borrowed it from the they borrowed it from the they borrowed it from the I've been doing a a deep dive on this I've been doing a a deep dive on this I've been doing a a deep dive on this for thisch course that I just did and it for thisch course that I just did and it for thisch course that I just did and it really does seem like um these other really does seem like um these other really does seem like um these other cultures that have Jade and hematite and cultures that have Jade and hematite and cultures that have Jade and hematite and obsidian the thech had none of that obsidian the thech had none of that obsidian the thech had none of that stuff they were living in a swamp and stuff they were living in a swamp and stuff they were living in a swamp and building things out of uh dirt but they building things out of uh dirt but they building things out of uh dirt but they were importing those materials from were importing those materials from were importing those materials from those areas carving them into all sorts

those areas carving them into all sorts those areas carving them into all sorts of religious of religious of religious iconography and then exporting them back iconography and then exporting them back iconography and then exporting them back to them and still the Fang deity show up to them and still the Fang deity show up to them and still the Fang deity show up there no the Fang deity is nowhere in uh there no the Fang deity is nowhere in uh there no the Fang deity is nowhere in uh in Central America and meso America in Central America and meso America in Central America and meso America that's why there there's Jaguars there's that's why there there's Jaguars there's that's why there there's Jaguars there's Jaguar iconography but it's not the same Jaguar iconography but it's not the same Jaguar iconography but it's not the same thing this this whole Jaguar Transformer thing this this whole Jaguar Transformer thing this this whole Jaguar Transformer deity does not exist there they do have deity does not exist there they do have deity does not exist there they do have a a a Pantheon so the Maya the Alx are the Pantheon so the Maya the Alx are the Pantheon so the Maya the Alx are the interesting peoples of the regions what interesting peoples of the regions what interesting peoples of the regions what was their uh I'd love to ask questions was their uh I'd love to ask questions was their uh I'd love to ask questions about who were they so one question I'm about who were they so one question I'm about who were they so one question I'm curious about what was their sense when curious about what was their sense when curious about what was their sense when they looked up at the stars what was they looked up at the stars what was they looked up at the stars what was their conception of the their conception of the their conception of the cosmos uh that's a question I've spent cosmos uh that's a question I've spent cosmos uh that's a question I've spent my entire career trying to answer I I my entire career trying to answer I I my entire career trying to answer I I think that they saw it as proof of the think that they saw it as proof of the think that they saw it as proof of the cyclical nature of cyclical nature of cyclical nature of life and certainly they saw like every life and certainly they saw like every life and certainly they saw like every ancient group did like are those the ancient group did like are those the ancient group did like are those the gods why are those things so far away gods why are those things so far away gods why are those things so far away but I think that the Maya especially but I think that the Maya especially but I think that the Maya especially looked at it in a with a much more looked at it in a with a much more looked at it in a with a much more mathematical mind than most did and so mathematical mind than most did and so mathematical mind than most did and so they watched these things move every they watched these things move every they watched these things move every night and if you do that even today you night and if you do that even today you night and if you do that even today you notice that all the stars move in tandem notice that all the stars move in tandem notice that all the stars move in tandem they're just this blanket they're like they're just this blanket they're like they're just this blanket they're like they're they're like this curtain behind they're they're like this curtain behind they're they're like this curtain behind me they're the stage upon which some me they're the stage upon which some me they're the stage upon which some very important players are dancing and

very important players are dancing and very important players are dancing and that's the moon the sun and the planets that's the moon the sun and the planets that's the moon the sun and the planets there's five planets we can see visibly there's five planets we can see visibly there's five planets we can see visibly so they started watching like why are so they started watching like why are so they started watching like why are just those seven moving differently than just those seven moving differently than just those seven moving differently than the rest and those are the things that the rest and those are the things that the rest and those are the things that they keyed on mathematically the the sun they keyed on mathematically the the sun they keyed on mathematically the the sun of course was also involved in the of course was also involved in the of course was also involved in the agricultural cycle so that was important agricultural cycle so that was important agricultural cycle so that was important in and of itself but the the planets we in and of itself but the the planets we in and of itself but the the planets we can see them coming up with can see them coming up with can see them coming up with ideas definitely doing the math and ideas definitely doing the math and ideas definitely doing the math and seeing that there is a repeated cycle seeing that there is a repeated cycle seeing that there is a repeated cycle and then coming up with mythology around and then coming up with mythology around and then coming up with mythology around them like Venus for them was associated them like Venus for them was associated them like Venus for them was associated with with with war and they had very ritualized times war and they had very ritualized times war and they had very ritualized times to go to war that had something to do to go to war that had something to do to go to war that had something to do with with with Venus sometimes in the classic period Venus sometimes in the classic period Venus sometimes in the classic period Maya it was the first appearance of Maya it was the first appearance of Maya it was the first appearance of Venus as the morning star that was a Venus as the morning star that was a Venus as the morning star that was a good time to go to to battle with your good time to go to to battle with your good time to go to to battle with your neighbors and when it became the post neighbors and when it became the post neighbors and when it became the post classic with like chichin being the classic with like chichin being the classic with like chichin being the capital of the Yucatan capital of the Yucatan capital of the Yucatan then it looks like if you watch Venus then it looks like if you watch Venus then it looks like if you watch Venus day after day it goes slowly up every day after day it goes slowly up every day after day it goes slowly up every day and then when it hits its highest day and then when it hits its highest day and then when it hits its highest point as morning star in the in the point as morning star in the in the point as morning star in the in the morning it goes down to the Earth like morning it goes down to the Earth like morning it goes down to the Earth like three times as fast all of a sudden it three times as fast all of a sudden it three times as fast all of a sudden it it just shoots down and hits the Earth it just shoots down and hits the Earth it just shoots down and hits the Earth and so the the people of post classic and so the the people of post classic and so the the people of post classic Maya civilization saw that as the gods Maya civilization saw that as the gods Maya civilization saw that as the gods shooting a spear into the Earth and that

shooting a spear into the Earth and that shooting a spear into the Earth and that was a good time to attack your neighbors was a good time to attack your neighbors was a good time to attack your neighbors that was like war time when the spear is that was like war time when the spear is that was like war time when the spear is going to hit the Earth all right so this going to hit the Earth all right so this going to hit the Earth all right so this is fascinating they just had at the is fascinating they just had at the is fascinating they just had at the foundation a sense that life existence foundation a sense that life existence foundation a sense that life existence at the various time scales is cyclical at the various time scales is cyclical at the various time scales is cyclical yeah that's that's the starting point yeah that's that's the starting point yeah that's that's the starting point and then you just look out there and if and then you just look out there and if and then you just look out there and if you're extremely precise which is you're extremely precise which is you're extremely precise which is fascinating how precise they were you fascinating how precise they were you fascinating how precise they were you can just measure the uh the can just measure the uh the can just measure the uh the Cycles yeah and they did it really well Cycles yeah and they did it really well Cycles yeah and they did it really well now of course they they are the only now of course they they are the only now of course they they are the only ones to develop a fully elaborated ones to develop a fully elaborated ones to develop a fully elaborated writing system in all of the Americas writing system in all of the Americas writing system in all of the Americas the South America had the keoo but it's the South America had the keoo but it's the South America had the keoo but it's so different than our writing we're so different than our writing we're so different than our writing we're still trying to figure out what the heck still trying to figure out what the heck still trying to figure out what the heck it is we know there's math there too but it is we know there's math there too but it is we know there's math there too but they had the ability to take a lifetime they had the ability to take a lifetime they had the ability to take a lifetime worth of measurements and hand it to the worth of measurements and hand it to the worth of measurements and hand it to the next Generation who would then do it next Generation who would then do it next Generation who would then do it more and do it more that's how they more and do it more that's how they more and do it more that's how they figured out kind of the Holy Grail of figured out kind of the Holy Grail of figured out kind of the Holy Grail of ancient astronomy how good were they ancient astronomy how good were they ancient astronomy how good were they was whether they could see the was whether they could see the was whether they could see the procession of the equinoxes the fact procession of the equinoxes the fact procession of the equinoxes the fact that we're just barely wobbling and that we're just barely wobbling and that we're just barely wobbling and there's a 26,000 year period where the there's a 26,000 year period where the there's a 26,000 year period where the stars as that backdrop will spin all the stars as that backdrop will spin all the stars as that backdrop will spin all the way around and come back it's 26,000 way around and come back it's 26,000 way around and come back it's 26,000 years but the Maya were able to figure years but the Maya were able to figure years but the Maya were able to figure out wait it's moving one degree every 72 out wait it's moving one degree every 72 out wait it's moving one degree every 72 years and did a calculation based on uh years and did a calculation based on uh years and did a calculation based on uh on on where it should be in the ancient on on where it should be in the ancient on on where it should be in the ancient past and they're using constant ations

past and they're using constant ations past and they're using constant ations they're showing us they know by saying they're showing us they know by saying they're showing us they know by saying like this planet's in this constellation like this planet's in this constellation like this planet's in this constellation right now and 33,000 years ago it would right now and 33,000 years ago it would right now and 33,000 years ago it would be in this be in this be in this constellation it's just fascinating that constellation it's just fascinating that constellation it's just fascinating that they were able to figure this out I they were able to figure this out I they were able to figure this out I would love to sort of understand the would love to sort of understand the would love to sort of understand the details of the scientific details of the scientific details of the scientific Community uh if you can call it that I Community uh if you can call it that I Community uh if you can call it that I think we absolutely could and uh that's think we absolutely could and uh that's think we absolutely could and uh that's actually one of the things that I'm I'm actually one of the things that I'm I'm actually one of the things that I'm I'm hoping to move the needle on in my hoping to move the needle on in my hoping to move the needle on in my generation with my career is to give generation with my career is to give generation with my career is to give these cultures the the respect they these cultures the the respect they these cultures the the respect they deserve as standing toe to- Toe with the deserve as standing toe to- Toe with the deserve as standing toe to- Toe with the rest of our ancient civilizations we rest of our ancient civilizations we rest of our ancient civilizations we respect there are things that should be respect there are things that should be respect there are things that should be called science that are not being called called science that are not being called called science that are not being called science at the moment their you know science at the moment their you know science at the moment their you know their math is incredible their their their math is incredible their their their math is incredible their their Hydraulic Engineering is incredible Hydraulic Engineering is incredible Hydraulic Engineering is incredible their chemistry is incredible and so their chemistry is incredible and so their chemistry is incredible and so I hope to talk about these things I hope to talk about these things I hope to talk about these things differently as a way to get people to differently as a way to get people to differently as a way to get people to recognize the achievements in a recognize the achievements in a recognize the achievements in a different way yeah I mean unquestionably different way yeah I mean unquestionably different way yeah I mean unquestionably incredible scientific work in the in the incredible scientific work in the in the incredible scientific work in the in the astronomy sense uh especially here can astronomy sense uh especially here can astronomy sense uh especially here can you speak to the all the sophisticated you speak to the all the sophisticated you speak to the all the sophisticated aspects of the Mind calendar uh that aspects of the Mind calendar uh that aspects of the Mind calendar uh that they've developed I know you got another they've developed I know you got another they've developed I know you got another five hours let's go I should uh I should five hours let's go I should uh I should five hours let's go I should uh I should no I'm kidding I should say that you no I'm kidding I should say that you no I'm kidding I should say that you also gave me

also gave me also gave me uh the 2024 mind calendar yeah I do this uh the 2024 mind calendar yeah I do this uh the 2024 mind calendar yeah I do this just to you know show the world that just to you know show the world that just to you know show the world that that calendar system is Evergreen it can that calendar system is Evergreen it can that calendar system is Evergreen it can go into the future or the past for go into the future or the past for go into the future or the past for billions of years in the system they billions of years in the system they billions of years in the system they made just like our system is so can you made just like our system is so can you made just like our system is so can you speak to the three components here as speak to the three components here as speak to the three components here as I'm reading the I'm reading the I'm reading the tlin the hob and the Long Count what are tlin the hob and the Long Count what are tlin the hob and the Long Count what are these fascinating components of the these fascinating components of the these fascinating components of the calendar it's it's neat how obsessed calendar it's it's neat how obsessed calendar it's it's neat how obsessed they they were really math nerds they it they they were really math nerds they it they they were really math nerds they it wasn't good enough for them to just make wasn't good enough for them to just make wasn't good enough for them to just make one cycle to describe time they had all one cycle to describe time they had all one cycle to describe time they had all these cycles that that interlocked into these cycles that that interlocked into these cycles that that interlocked into each other like like cogs in a machine each other like like cogs in a machine each other like like cogs in a machine though they never thought of it like though they never thought of it like though they never thought of it like that but uh the soul keen's their oldest that but uh the soul keen's their oldest that but uh the soul keen's their oldest one and the one that still endures today one and the one that still endures today one and the one that still endures today there are millions of Maya people that there are millions of Maya people that there are millions of Maya people that are living their lives Based On A are living their lives Based On A are living their lives Based On A 260-day Count no weeks no months it's 260-day Count no weeks no months it's 260-day Count no weeks no months it's just 13 numbers combined with 20day just 13 numbers combined with 20day just 13 numbers combined with 20day names for a total of 260 days and then names for a total of 260 days and then names for a total of 260 days and then it goes again mhm everybody in the it goes again mhm everybody in the it goes again mhm everybody in the highlands knows what their birthday is highlands knows what their birthday is highlands knows what their birthday is in that calendar knows what it means in that calendar knows what it means in that calendar knows what it means about their about their about their personality and the kind of jobs that personality and the kind of jobs that personality and the kind of jobs that they're supposed to do each one of those they're supposed to do each one of those they're supposed to do each one of those days has their own spirit and what's days has their own spirit and what's days has their own spirit and what's supposed to happen in those days the supposed to happen in those days the supposed to happen in those days the Maya collectively call them the mom the Maya collectively call them the mom the Maya collectively call them the mom the grandmother grandfather grandmother grandfather grandmother grandfather spirits and and and they talk to each spirits and and and they talk to each spirits and and and they talk to each one of those days and they pray to them

one of those days and they pray to them one of those days and they pray to them they have there's now an association of they have there's now an association of they have there's now an association of some 8,000 people that are called Aki some 8,000 people that are called Aki some 8,000 people that are called Aki that are daykeepers who are keeping the that are daykeepers who are keeping the that are daykeepers who are keeping the days and they're also like Community uh days and they're also like Community uh days and they're also like Community uh psychologists almost people come to them psychologists almost people come to them psychologists almost people come to them and say you know my life is mixed up and say you know my life is mixed up and say you know my life is mixed up what's wrong here well uh let's ask the what's wrong here well uh let's ask the what's wrong here well uh let's ask the mom like okay well it looks like you're mom like okay well it looks like you're mom like okay well it looks like you're not doing this or that or you know what not doing this or that or you know what not doing this or that or you know what you're an accountant you're not supposed you're an accountant you're not supposed you're an accountant you're not supposed to be an accountant AR you're supposed to be an accountant AR you're supposed to be an accountant AR you're supposed to be a you know a midwife what are you to be a you know a midwife what are you to be a you know a midwife what are you doing you're you're living your life doing you're you're living your life doing you're you're living your life wrong you're a you're you're a ke you wrong you're a you're you're a ke you wrong you're a you're you're a ke you need to start being a ke person they need to start being a ke person they need to start being a ke person they take extremely seriously the day on take extremely seriously the day on take extremely seriously the day on which you're born what that means like which you're born what that means like which you're born what that means like the the spirit that embodies that day the the spirit that embodies that day the the spirit that embodies that day right like I'm I'm ke I'm 13 ke and it right like I'm I'm ke I'm 13 ke and it right like I'm I'm ke I'm 13 ke and it says my it's funny how accurate a lot of says my it's funny how accurate a lot of says my it's funny how accurate a lot of them are mine is basically is uh I'm a them are mine is basically is uh I'm a them are mine is basically is uh I'm a I'm an I'm an I'm an irresponsible husband and parent but irresponsible husband and parent but irresponsible husband and parent but people like me so my family still people like me so my family still people like me so my family still prospers like well God that's that's prospers like well God that's that's prospers like well God that's that's horribly that's horribly accurate I mean horribly that's horribly accurate I mean horribly that's horribly accurate I mean it's some of it is also the chicken or it's some of it is also the chicken or it's some of it is also the chicken or the egg if you truly believe so if you the egg if you truly believe so if you the egg if you truly believe so if you structure Society where this calendar is structure Society where this calendar is structure Society where this calendar is truly sacred then it kind of like you truly sacred then it kind of like you truly sacred then it kind of like you manifest a lot of the the spirit does manifest a lot of the the spirit does manifest a lot of the the spirit does manifest itself in the life of the manifest itself in the life of the manifest itself in the life of the people that is born on that spirit's day people that is born on that spirit's day people that is born on that spirit's day absolutely it's interesting and and the absolutely it's interesting and and the absolutely it's interesting and and the and the Maya really feel this in this and the Maya really feel this in this and the Maya really feel this in this system so that's the core system this system so that's the core system this system so that's the core system this 200 160 day calendar was the very first 200 160 day calendar was the very first 200 160 day calendar was the very first calendar they made thousands of years

calendar they made thousands of years calendar they made thousands of years ago and it's the one that's most ago and it's the one that's most ago and it's the one that's most important today uh why 260 Days by the important today uh why 260 Days by the important today uh why 260 Days by the way is there a reasoning behind it uh way is there a reasoning behind it uh way is there a reasoning behind it uh from most Maya agree with this today and from most Maya agree with this today and from most Maya agree with this today and you know who knows what the original you know who knows what the original you know who knows what the original Architects thousands of years ago were Architects thousands of years ago were Architects thousands of years ago were thinking but it's 9 months it's the thinking but it's 9 months it's the thinking but it's 9 months it's the human gestation period so if you if you human gestation period so if you if you human gestation period so if you if you conceived on the day 1 monkey chances conceived on the day 1 monkey chances conceived on the day 1 monkey chances are your kids coming out on or near 13 are your kids coming out on or near 13 are your kids coming out on or near 13 monkey and uh I think it's beautiful I monkey and uh I think it's beautiful I monkey and uh I think it's beautiful I mean if if that's right that means the mean if if that's right that means the mean if if that's right that means the Maya and the people of meso America we Maya and the people of meso America we Maya and the people of meso America we all share it together um when they all share it together um when they all share it together um when they thought about we need we need a count of thought about we need we need a count of thought about we need we need a count of time that's for us they didn't look up time that's for us they didn't look up time that's for us they didn't look up into the heavens they looked like into into the heavens they looked like into into the heavens they looked like into their bodies what's the first cycle that their bodies what's the first cycle that their bodies what's the first cycle that we actually go through as humans and we actually go through as humans and we actually go through as humans and they pick this 9 months thing it's it they pick this 9 months thing it's it they pick this 9 months thing it's it really is our cycle and no other culture really is our cycle and no other culture really is our cycle and no other culture on the planet looked inside themselves on the planet looked inside themselves on the planet looked inside themselves to create their calendar like to create their calendar like to create their calendar like that uh so that's the oldest one and the that uh so that's the oldest one and the that uh so that's the oldest one and the sacred one that still carries through to sacred one that still carries through to sacred one that still carries through to today uh what's the second one of the today uh what's the second one of the today uh what's the second one of the hob the hob is the solar calendar the hob the hob is the solar calendar the hob the hob is the solar calendar the one that everybody on the planet one that everybody on the planet one that everybody on the planet eventually comes up with we know it eventually comes up with we know it eventually comes up with we know it second though because when they start second though because when they start second though because when they start talking about it they use all the talking about it they use all the talking about it they use all the symbols and the numbers for from the symbols and the numbers for from the symbols and the numbers for from the 261 they say well we need a solar one 261 they say well we need a solar one 261 they say well we need a solar one too let's just keep counting this too let's just keep counting this too let's just keep counting this another 105 days and we'll get to

another 105 days and we'll get to another 105 days and we'll get to 365 oh interesting they kind of carry 365 oh interesting they kind of carry 365 oh interesting they kind of carry the same got it got it got it got it and the same got it got it got it got it and the same got it got it got it got it and that's useful because for all the sort that's useful because for all the sort that's useful because for all the sort of Agriculture all those kind of reasons of Agriculture all those kind of reasons of Agriculture all those kind of reasons right though interestingly they never right though interestingly they never right though interestingly they never put a leap year in the hob is also put a leap year in the hob is also put a leap year in the hob is also called the vague gear cuz it's just called the vague gear cuz it's just called the vague gear cuz it's just 365 which means every year they're off a 365 which means every year they're off a 365 which means every year they're off a quarter of a day and eventually it quarter of a day and eventually it quarter of a day and eventually it starts really adding up yeah in fact starts really adding up yeah in fact starts really adding up yeah in fact it's even caused modern modern problems it's even caused modern modern problems it's even caused modern modern problems in this calendar here I just do the in this calendar here I just do the in this calendar here I just do the straight math from a thousand years ago straight math from a thousand years ago straight math from a thousand years ago and so I place the beginning of the and so I place the beginning of the and so I place the beginning of the solar year differently than some Maya solar year differently than some Maya solar year differently than some Maya groups do especially the guys in the groups do especially the guys in the groups do especially the guys in the highlands of Eastern Guatemala they highlands of Eastern Guatemala they highlands of Eastern Guatemala they write me nasty email saying I don't know write me nasty email saying I don't know write me nasty email saying I don't know what time the year is but their what time the year is but their what time the year is but their relatives changed it in the 1950s relatives changed it in the 1950s relatives changed it in the 1950s because their agricultural cycle was so because their agricultural cycle was so because their agricultural cycle was so far off they moved it 60 days back to far off they moved it 60 days back to far off they moved it 60 days back to make it in the spring again but it make it in the spring again but it make it in the spring again but it drifts which is strange cuz it's not a drifts which is strange cuz it's not a drifts which is strange cuz it's not a very good thing for the the agricultural very good thing for the the agricultural very good thing for the the agricultural cycle it's one of these Mysteries we cycle it's one of these Mysteries we cycle it's one of these Mysteries we still don't have an explanation for uh still don't have an explanation for uh still don't have an explanation for uh so that's the hob and then what's the so that's the hob and then what's the so that's the hob and then what's the Long Count the long counts they're Long Count the long counts they're Long Count the long counts they're really mysterious cool one because it's really mysterious cool one because it's really mysterious cool one because it's a linear year count of days which are a linear year count of days which are a linear year count of days which are not like them it's a it's a bunch of not like them it's a it's a bunch of not like them it's a it's a bunch of Cycles like ours you know our weeks are Cycles like ours you know our weeks are Cycles like ours you know our weeks are a cycle our months are a a cycle our months are a a cycle our months are a cycle um but it's weird in that its

cycle um but it's weird in that its cycle um but it's weird in that its estimation of the year in the in the estimation of the year in the in the estimation of the year in the in the Long Count system is only 360 days so Long Count system is only 360 days so Long Count system is only 360 days so it's miserably off uh a solar year and it's miserably off uh a solar year and it's miserably off uh a solar year and they count in base 20 so they count like they count in base 20 so they count like they count in base 20 so they count like we count in tens we're decimal they we count in tens we're decimal they we count in tens we're decimal they count in b 20 count in b 20 count in b 20 vesal and so it should be know there's vesal and so it should be know there's vesal and so it should be know there's ones there's 20s there's 400s there's ones there's 20s there's 400s there's ones there's 20s there's 400s there's 8,000 there's 160,000 it's up it goes 8,000 there's 160,000 it's up it goes 8,000 there's 160,000 it's up it goes just like our tens hundreds thousands 10 just like our tens hundreds thousands 10 just like our tens hundreds thousands 10 thousands but it's times 20 MH so that thousands but it's times 20 MH so that thousands but it's times 20 MH so that third so they have days months of 20 third so they have days months of 20 third so they have days months of 20 days and then they have these years that days and then they have these years that days and then they have these years that are should be by their math 400 but it's are should be by their math 400 but it's are should be by their math 400 but it's only 360 and that throws the whole thing only 360 and that throws the whole thing only 360 and that throws the whole thing out of whack going further up then they out of whack going further up then they out of whack going further up then they have a 20-year period and a 400-year have a 20-year period and a 400-year have a 20-year period and a 400-year period 400 years to their calendar but period 400 years to their calendar but period 400 years to their calendar but it's only by that time it's only 396 it's only by that time it's only 396 it's only by that time it's only 396 years in our period in our years in our period in our years in our period in our Reckoning so it's it's mysterious that Reckoning so it's it's mysterious that Reckoning so it's it's mysterious that it's why did they tweak it at the year it's why did they tweak it at the year it's why did they tweak it at the year to be only 360 days that's you know that to be only 360 days that's you know that to be only 360 days that's you know that doesn't follow any astronomy that doesn't follow any astronomy that doesn't follow any astronomy that doesn't that's not the human cycle yeah doesn't that's not the human cycle yeah doesn't that's not the human cycle yeah but they're I mean it's interesting that but they're I mean it's interesting that but they're I mean it's interesting that they build up towards thinking about they build up towards thinking about they build up towards thinking about very long periods of time like Buck tun very long periods of time like Buck tun very long periods of time like Buck tun is 144,000 days right or uh aune is 400

is 144,000 days right or uh aune is 400 is 144,000 days right or uh aune is 400 of the long counts years so it's kind of of the long counts years so it's kind of of the long counts years so it's kind of like our Millennium you know we we think like our Millennium you know we we think like our Millennium you know we we think it's a big deal when we hit a millennium it's a big deal when we hit a millennium it's a big deal when we hit a millennium or uh or over a century that's they have or uh or over a century that's they have or uh or over a century that's they have a 20-year period that they do a lot of a 20-year period that they do a lot of a 20-year period that they do a lot of celebrations on called it katun and then celebrations on called it katun and then celebrations on called it katun and then they have the 400 baktun which is the they have the 400 baktun which is the they have the 400 baktun which is the big one that's like their Millennium and big one that's like their Millennium and big one that's like their Millennium and 13 of those B 13 of those B 13 of those B Tunes uh occurred in the creation before Tunes uh occurred in the creation before Tunes uh occurred in the creation before us they also think that we're in that us they also think that we're in that us they also think that we're in that the world has had multiple Creations the world has had multiple Creations the world has had multiple Creations they're not alone in that there's lots they're not alone in that there's lots they're not alone in that there's lots of ancient civilizations who say that of ancient civilizations who say that of ancient civilizations who say that but we're technically in the fourth but we're technically in the fourth but we're technically in the fourth creation and they're they have a creation and they're they have a creation and they're they have a creation story called The pople vu and creation story called The pople vu and creation story called The pople vu and the popal Vu is clear as day that the the popal Vu is clear as day that the the popal Vu is clear as day that the third creation ends with the help of third creation ends with the help of third creation ends with the help of these Heroes called the hero Twins and these Heroes called the hero Twins and these Heroes called the hero Twins and the fourth creation begins and so on the the fourth creation begins and so on the the fourth creation begins and so on the Maya monuments we see them doing the Maya monuments we see them doing the Maya monuments we see them doing the math through the long count and we can math through the long count and we can math through the long count and we can calculate it back very exactly it calculate it back very exactly it calculate it back very exactly it happened the fourth creation started on happened the fourth creation started on happened the fourth creation started on August 11th August 11th August 11th 3,114 3,114 3,114 BC and it says it doesn't say it's day BC and it says it doesn't say it's day BC and it says it doesn't say it's day one it says it's the last day of the one it says it's the last day of the one it says it's the last day of the 13th fune of the third 13th fune of the third 13th fune of the third creation which leads us to believe that creation which leads us to believe that creation which leads us to believe that a creation is only 13 btunes long right

a creation is only 13 btunes long right a creation is only 13 btunes long right so and this would be the fourth creation so and this would be the fourth creation so and this would be the fourth creation the calendar starts the fourth creation the calendar starts the fourth creation the calendar starts the fourth creation but if you do the math going from but if you do the math going from but if you do the math going from 3,14 BC and count 13 Bok Tunes forward 3,14 BC and count 13 Bok Tunes forward 3,14 BC and count 13 Bok Tunes forward you get to you get to you get to 2012 and hence the uh the very popular 2012 and hence the uh the very popular 2012 and hence the uh the very popular notion that 2012 whenever that was notion that 2012 whenever that was notion that 2012 whenever that was December something December 21st 2012 be December something December 21st 2012 be December something December 21st 2012 be the end of the world right so can you the end of the world right so can you the end of the world right so can you explain this those were very fruitful explain this those were very fruitful explain this those were very fruitful years for me I had so many lectures years for me I had so many lectures years for me I had so many lectures around the country that was that's like around the country that was that's like around the country that was that's like a like Garrett Morrison Saturday Night a like Garrett Morrison Saturday Night a like Garrett Morrison Saturday Night Live the the the the apocalypse was very Live the the the the apocalypse was very Live the the the the apocalypse was very very good to very good to very good to me uh I mean but that that is pretty me uh I mean but that that is pretty me uh I mean but that that is pretty interesting so that's that that would be interesting so that's that that would be interesting so that's that that would be so technically we would be in what in so technically we would be in what in so technically we would be in what in the fifth no yeah technically we'd be in the fifth no yeah technically we'd be in the fifth no yeah technically we'd be in the fifth though my argument was that the fifth though my argument was that the fifth though my argument was that actually if you look through all the actually if you look through all the actually if you look through all the Corpus of my mathematics and calendars Corpus of my mathematics and calendars Corpus of my mathematics and calendars they never say anything like that in they never say anything like that in they never say anything like that in fact there's a handful of dates that fact there's a handful of dates that fact there's a handful of dates that tell us uh that that the fourth creation tell us uh that that the fourth creation tell us uh that that the fourth creation does continue farther on that that Bak does continue farther on that that Bak does continue farther on that that Bak to T place should have 20 20 Bok Tunes to T place should have 20 20 Bok Tunes to T place should have 20 20 Bok Tunes in it like their counting system would in it like their counting system would in it like their counting system would dictate not dictate not dictate not 13 and there's there's a place in uh in 13 and there's there's a place in uh in 13 and there's there's a place in uh in pen there's a place in the Dresden Codex

pen there's a place in the Dresden Codex pen there's a place in the Dresden Codex and one other place I'm forgetting that and one other place I'm forgetting that and one other place I'm forgetting that uh that all talk about time after uh that all talk about time after uh that all talk about time after 2012 so how does that happen it's a 2012 so how does that happen it's a 2012 so how does that happen it's a conflict is there supposed to be an conflict is there supposed to be an conflict is there supposed to be an overlap of the of the of the the 1 so overlap of the of the of the the 1 so overlap of the of the of the the 1 so it's like 13 is the core of it and it's it's like 13 is the core of it and it's it's like 13 is the core of it and it's 20 long they they love the number 13 20 long they they love the number 13 20 long they they love the number 13 it's all over the place it's a magic it's all over the place it's a magic it's all over the place it's a magic number to them my explanation which I number to them my explanation which I number to them my explanation which I admit is is not very solid but uh I admit is is not very solid but uh I admit is is not very solid but uh I think think think that the magical Deeds of the hero twins that the magical Deeds of the hero twins that the magical Deeds of the hero twins in their creation story at the end of in their creation story at the end of in their creation story at the end of the third uh the third creation hit the the third uh the third creation hit the the third uh the third creation hit the magical reset button magical reset button magical reset button mhm and that it just restarted time mhm and that it just restarted time mhm and that it just restarted time right there because of their magic but right there because of their magic but right there because of their magic but that was not to say that the natural Bak that was not to say that the natural Bak that was not to say that the natural Bak tune cycle should be tune cycle should be tune cycle should be 13 and there are certain texts that uh 13 and there are certain texts that uh 13 and there are certain texts that uh that go way forward in time or way that go way forward in time or way that go way forward in time or way backward in time and whenever they want backward in time and whenever they want backward in time and whenever they want to do that there there are higher to do that there there are higher to do that there there are higher increments than just the Bak tune above increments than just the Bak tune above increments than just the Bak tune above that there's the Pik tune then there's that there's the Pik tune then there's that there's the Pik tune then there's the cabun then there's alaat tun and it the cabun then there's alaat tun and it the cabun then there's alaat tun and it goes on and on and these are like you goes on and on and these are like you goes on and on and these are like you know 160,000 years huge increments of know 160,000 years huge increments of know 160,000 years huge increments of time whenever they want to do that and time whenever they want to do that and time whenever they want to do that and they talk about a long period of time they talk about a long period of time they talk about a long period of time they start putting 13s in all of those they start putting 13s in all of those they start putting 13s in all of those increments those higher increments and I

increments those higher increments and I increments those higher increments and I think what they're saying is uh they're think what they're saying is uh they're think what they're saying is uh they're making an esoteric statement about the making an esoteric statement about the making an esoteric statement about the NeverEnding n nature of time that's NeverEnding n nature of time that's NeverEnding n nature of time that's that's what I think they're they're that's what I think they're they're that's what I think they're they're telling us in those texts that time goes telling us in those texts that time goes telling us in those texts that time goes on on on forever magically but there they still forever magically but there they still forever magically but there they still had a conception that it didn't go on had a conception that it didn't go on had a conception that it didn't go on forever before right that there was forever before right that there was forever before right that there was other civilizations that came before and other civilizations that came before and other civilizations that came before and there and there this is the fourth there and there this is the fourth there and there this is the fourth creation this is the fourth creation and creation this is the fourth creation and creation this is the fourth creation and the gods made everybody the the first the gods made everybody the the first the gods made everybody the the first ones were made of mud and they melted ones were made of mud and they melted ones were made of mud and they melted the second ones were made of sticks but the second ones were made of sticks but the second ones were made of sticks but they were jerks to the animals um the they were jerks to the animals um the they were jerks to the animals um the the third ones were like us but uh but the third ones were like us but uh but the third ones were like us but uh but flawed and in some other way and then flawed and in some other way and then flawed and in some other way and then we're finally made of uh of the blood of we're finally made of uh of the blood of we're finally made of uh of the blood of the Gods and corn we're made out of corn the Gods and corn we're made out of corn the Gods and corn we're made out of corn so we're we're perfect and as the as it so we're we're perfect and as the as it so we're we're perfect and as the as it explains to us the the pop Vu does we explains to us the the pop Vu does we explains to us the the pop Vu does we got it right this time there there is got it right this time there there is got it right this time there there is there there's no reason to believe that there there's no reason to believe that there there's no reason to believe that this creation has a set this creation has a set this creation has a set duration well one of the weird things is duration well one of the weird things is duration well one of the weird things is that the Aztecs who we talk to a lot at that the Aztecs who we talk to a lot at that the Aztecs who we talk to a lot at cont cont cont act they also had the concept of act they also had the concept of act they also had the concept of multiple Creations before us but they multiple Creations before us but they multiple Creations before us but they were real clear to the Spanish that they were real clear to the Spanish that they were real clear to the Spanish that they weren't all the same time element uh weren't all the same time element uh weren't all the same time element uh some of them were in the 300s of years some of them were in the 300s of years some of them were in the 300s of years some of them were in the 700s of years

some of them were in the 700s of years some of them were in the 700s of years but they were not the same time period but they were not the same time period but they were not the same time period so our our mathematical logic that if so our our mathematical logic that if so our our mathematical logic that if the third creation was 13 this one must the third creation was 13 this one must the third creation was 13 this one must be third creation is in or also be 13 be third creation is in or also be 13 be third creation is in or also be 13 it's in direct opposition to what the it's in direct opposition to what the it's in direct opposition to what the Aztecs told us about the nature of Aztecs told us about the nature of Aztecs told us about the nature of Creations they're different time periods Creations they're different time periods Creations they're different time periods what do you think there was the myth of what do you think there was the myth of what do you think there was the myth of the previous Creations did they have the previous Creations did they have the previous Creations did they have some kind some kind some kind of long multigenerational memory of of long multigenerational memory of of long multigenerational memory of Prior Prior Prior civilizations it may have had some echo civilizations it may have had some echo civilizations it may have had some echo in the uh the flood myths right it's the in the uh the flood myths right it's the in the uh the flood myths right it's the same the same kind of major myths same the same kind of major myths same the same kind of major myths carried through long periods of time carried through long periods of time carried through long periods of time there's a lot of different opinions there's a lot of different opinions there's a lot of different opinions about it and you know there like if they about it and you know there like if they about it and you know there like if they were all 13 if we have five Creations were all 13 if we have five Creations were all 13 if we have five Creations like the Aztec said and they were all 13 like the Aztec said and they were all 13 like the Aztec said and they were all 13 they would come up to roughly they would come up to roughly they would come up to roughly 25,000 something years which is very 25,000 something years which is very 25,000 something years which is very close to that processional cycle so some close to that processional cycle so some close to that processional cycle so some people are like they designed it all to people are like they designed it all to people are like they designed it all to be one completion of the procession of be one completion of the procession of be one completion of the procession of the the the equinoxes and I mean that that I don't equinoxes and I mean that that I don't equinoxes and I mean that that I don't believe that one but that one sure believe that one but that one sure believe that one but that one sure sounds good doesn't that's that's going sounds good doesn't that's that's going sounds good doesn't that's that's going to get a lot of Internet to get a lot of Internet to get a lot of Internet hits and one of the things I do hits and one of the things I do hits and one of the things I do obviously uh wonder about is um why the obviously uh wonder about is um why the obviously uh wonder about is um why the flood myth is part of like most flood myth is part of like most flood myth is part of like most societies and most religions I think societies and most religions I think societies and most religions I think that one's pretty easy it's the end of

that one's pretty easy it's the end of that one's pretty easy it's the end of the Ice Age when the bathtub filled back the Ice Age when the bathtub filled back the Ice Age when the bathtub filled back up huh so it's just the Ice Age back up huh so it's just the Ice Age back up huh so it's just the Ice Age back it's Seas filling back up it's Seas filling back up it's Seas filling back up and they without really understanding and they without really understanding and they without really understanding what happened they just carried the that what happened they just carried the that what happened they just carried the that story everybody knows that everybody's story everybody knows that everybody's story everybody knows that everybody's nice Coastal Village went underwater nice Coastal Village went underwater nice Coastal Village went underwater yeah and they had to they had to seek yeah and they had to they had to seek yeah and they had to they had to seek Higher Ground and then just like people Higher Ground and then just like people Higher Ground and then just like people like talking about the weather everybody like talking about the weather everybody like talking about the weather everybody was talking about the weather for many was talking about the weather for many was talking about the weather for many generations as the sea level was going generations as the sea level was going generations as the sea level was going up and then uh that that myth carried up and then uh that that myth carried up and then uh that that myth carried why do we live here Grandpa well we used why do we live here Grandpa well we used why do we live here Grandpa well we used to live over there but then the water to live over there but then the water to live over there but then the water came came came and then many grandpas later is just and then many grandpas later is just and then many grandpas later is just kind of permeates every idea it becomes kind of permeates every idea it becomes kind of permeates every idea it becomes mythology but Global mythology so that mythology but Global mythology so that mythology but Global mythology so that one you know there's a lot of things I one you know there's a lot of things I one you know there's a lot of things I don't have a reasonable explanation for don't have a reasonable explanation for don't have a reasonable explanation for but the uh but the flood myth is almost but the uh but the flood myth is almost but the uh but the flood myth is almost certainly the the rise in sea certainly the the rise in sea certainly the the rise in sea level so the this idea that every day level so the this idea that every day level so the this idea that every day represents uh carries a Spirit uh you represents uh carries a Spirit uh you represents uh carries a Spirit uh you know there's Modern Day know there's Modern Day know there's Modern Day astrology you know most most people kind astrology you know most most people kind astrology you know most most people kind of consider astrology this um maybe a of consider astrology this um maybe a of consider astrology this um maybe a bit unscientific woo woo type of um uh bit unscientific woo woo type of um uh bit unscientific woo woo type of um uh set of beliefs but do you think there's set of beliefs but do you think there's set of beliefs but do you think there's some wisdom that astrology some wisdom that astrology some wisdom that astrology carries from your scholarship of the carries from your scholarship of the carries from your scholarship of the Maya calendar you think if we carry that Maya calendar you think if we carry that Maya calendar you think if we carry that to the astrological perspective on the

to the astrological perspective on the to the astrological perspective on the world do you think there's some wisdom world do you think there's some wisdom world do you think there's some wisdom there I don't know you know that I I there I don't know you know that I I there I don't know you know that I I have a woo woo part of me mhm I I I have a woo woo part of me mhm I I I have a woo woo part of me mhm I I I would like to believe that stuff but I would like to believe that stuff but I would like to believe that stuff but I don't think as a scientist it makes I don't think as a scientist it makes I don't think as a scientist it makes I cannot come up with a cannot come up with a cannot come up with a biological scientific reason why that biological scientific reason why that biological scientific reason why that would be true and you know when you look would be true and you know when you look would be true and you know when you look at it objectively I at it objectively I at it objectively I mean really is everybody born with the mean really is everybody born with the mean really is everybody born with the sign Scorpio a a a moody person that's sign Scorpio a a a moody person that's sign Scorpio a a a moody person that's just uh that's just objectively not true just uh that's just objectively not true just uh that's just objectively not true um but it is funny how often times these um but it is funny how often times these um but it is funny how often times these these Maya uh horoscopes for lack of a these Maya uh horoscopes for lack of a these Maya uh horoscopes for lack of a better word do hit the mark there was better word do hit the mark there was better word do hit the mark there was some student who surveyed like 300 some student who surveyed like 300 some student who surveyed like 300 people with the app I made and asked people with the app I made and asked people with the app I made and asked them about their Greek sign and their them about their Greek sign and their them about their Greek sign and their Maya sign and his conclusion for his Maya sign and his conclusion for his Maya sign and his conclusion for his term paper was that the Maya one was term paper was that the Maya one was term paper was that the Maya one was working way better which that's that's working way better which that's that's working way better which that's that's fascinating at least that's that's fun fascinating at least that's that's fun fascinating at least that's that's fun but no I'm I'm I think I'm too much of a but no I'm I'm I think I'm too much of a but no I'm I'm I think I'm too much of a scientists to believe that I I just scientists to believe that I I just scientists to believe that I I just don't have a a any foundation in science don't have a a any foundation in science don't have a a any foundation in science that would allow us to believe that the that would allow us to believe that the that would allow us to believe that the uh the month in which we were born in a uh the month in which we were born in a uh the month in which we were born in a cycle sets our personality and Destiny I cycle sets our personality and Destiny I cycle sets our personality and Destiny I agree and yet there's so much mystery agree and yet there's so much mystery agree and yet there's so much mystery all around us that uh what I do like is

all around us that uh what I do like is all around us that uh what I do like is the uh inbuilt humility to that the uh inbuilt humility to that the uh inbuilt humility to that worldview um that there's this whole worldview um that there's this whole worldview um that there's this whole you can call it a spiritual world but a you can call it a spiritual world but a you can call it a spiritual world but a world that we don't quite understand and world that we don't quite understand and world that we don't quite understand and then you can wander about what is the then you can wander about what is the then you can wander about what is the wisdom that that world carries and then wisdom that that world carries and then wisdom that that world carries and then you can construct all kinds of systems you can construct all kinds of systems you can construct all kinds of systems to try to interpret that and then there to try to interpret that and then there to try to interpret that and then there is where the human hubris can come in is where the human hubris can come in is where the human hubris can come in and you know uh but it's good to be and you know uh but it's good to be and you know uh but it's good to be humbled by how little we know I suppose humbled by how little we know I suppose humbled by how little we know I suppose I do love the mysteries of the world and I do love the mysteries of the world and I do love the mysteries of the world and I I I would I would love to find an I I I would I would love to find an I I I would I would love to find an ancient civilization but I don't I I ancient civilization but I don't I I ancient civilization but I don't I I don't want to solve the mysteries of the don't want to solve the mysteries of the don't want to solve the mysteries of the world I think they're one of the things world I think they're one of the things world I think they're one of the things that make world life worth living that's that make world life worth living that's that make world life worth living that's true that's true that's true that's true um you mentioned the uh Maya true um you mentioned the uh Maya true um you mentioned the uh Maya writing system what are some interesting writing system what are some interesting writing system what are some interesting aspects of their aspects of their aspects of their language that they've used and the language that they've used and the language that they've used and the written language that they used well you written language that they used well you written language that they used well you know one of the things that confound me know one of the things that confound me know one of the things that confound me as a guy who's spent you know better as a guy who's spent you know better as a guy who's spent you know better portion of my life studying it I had the portion of my life studying it I had the portion of my life studying it I had the honor of being uh the student of uh honor of being uh the student of uh honor of being uh the student of uh Linda Sheely right here at the Linda Sheely right here at the Linda Sheely right here at the University of Texas at Austin she got University of Texas at Austin she got University of Texas at Austin she got the group together who broke the Maya the group together who broke the Maya the group together who broke the Maya Code of hieroglyphics in the 1970s so I Code of hieroglyphics in the 1970s so I Code of hieroglyphics in the 1970s so I learned from the best and and loved learned from the best and and loved learned from the best and and loved every minute of it I miss Linda can you every minute of it I miss Linda can you every minute of it I miss Linda can you speak to that code actually the Hier the speak to that code actually the Hier the speak to that code actually the Hier the code and what it takes to break it oh code and what it takes to break it oh code and what it takes to break it oh boy I mean what a what a thing we we had boy I mean what a what a thing we we had boy I mean what a what a thing we we had kind of a a Rosetta Stone we had a page

kind of a a Rosetta Stone we had a page kind of a a Rosetta Stone we had a page out of Diego delanda's book a priest who out of Diego delanda's book a priest who out of Diego delanda's book a priest who was conver hting the Maya in was conver hting the Maya in was conver hting the Maya in Yucatan asked his informants about their Yucatan asked his informants about their Yucatan asked his informants about their writing system and what every sound writing system and what every sound writing system and what every sound meant and he was convinced they had a meant and he was convinced they had a meant and he was convinced they had a alphabet like we do so he got this Maya alphabet like we do so he got this Maya alphabet like we do so he got this Maya guy sat down in Spanish and he said okay guy sat down in Spanish and he said okay guy sat down in Spanish and he said okay you're going to write all the symbols you're going to write all the symbols you're going to write all the symbols right here in my book write write an ah right here in my book write write an ah right here in my book write write an ah here write a be here write a say here here write a be here write a say here here write a be here write a say here and that guy just wrote all of the and that guy just wrote all of the and that guy just wrote all of the sounds that the priest told him to write sounds that the priest told him to write sounds that the priest told him to write they were actually syllables they were they were actually syllables they were they were actually syllables they were vowel consonant combinations they vowel consonant combinations they vowel consonant combinations they weren't an alphabet but that turned into weren't an alphabet but that turned into weren't an alphabet but that turned into are Rosetta Stone of sorts the big key are Rosetta Stone of sorts the big key are Rosetta Stone of sorts the big key is that the Maya still speak that same is that the Maya still speak that same is that the Maya still speak that same language there are millions of Maya language there are millions of Maya language there are millions of Maya people who are speaking a version of people who are speaking a version of people who are speaking a version of Maya now there's there's where I get Maya now there's there's where I get Maya now there's there's where I get confused that we've got a single writing confused that we've got a single writing confused that we've got a single writing system that is uh intelligible we've system that is uh intelligible we've system that is uh intelligible we've broken the codes so we know that it's broken the codes so we know that it's broken the codes so we know that it's basically the same writing system from basically the same writing system from basically the same writing system from the top of the Yucatan into Guatemala the top of the Yucatan into Guatemala the top of the Yucatan into Guatemala and El and El and El Salvador but we have Salvador but we have Salvador but we have 33 Maya languages today that are 33 Maya languages today that are 33 Maya languages today that are mutually mutually mutually unintelligible and we we backwards unintelligible and we we backwards unintelligible and we we backwards project the language uh of what they project the language uh of what they project the language uh of what they spoke back then that the glyphs are in spoke back then that the glyphs are in spoke back then that the glyphs are in to something called chol T which is a to something called chol T which is a to something called chol T which is a combination of chti and chol two of combination of chti and chol two of combination of chti and chol two of those

those those languages but it doesn't work for me at languages but it doesn't work for me at languages but it doesn't work for me at all how did if there was one language all how did if there was one language all how did if there was one language maybe two back then how did it flower maybe two back then how did it flower maybe two back then how did it flower into 33 mutually unintelligible into 33 mutually unintelligible into 33 mutually unintelligible languages in just 500 years languages in just 500 years languages in just 500 years during uh culture a culturation and during uh culture a culturation and during uh culture a culturation and horrible infectious diseases that killed horrible infectious diseases that killed horrible infectious diseases that killed 90% of the population how did that 90% of the population how did that 90% of the population how did that happen so we're missing something huge happen so we're missing something huge happen so we're missing something huge here I think it's more like Chinese here I think it's more like Chinese here I think it's more like Chinese where Chinese where Chinese where Chinese letters uh uh writing can be letters uh uh writing can be letters uh uh writing can be read in multiple languages and still read in multiple languages and still read in multiple languages and still understood I don't know exactly the understood I don't know exactly the understood I don't know exactly the mechanics of how that would happen but mechanics of how that would happen but mechanics of how that would happen but it just seems impossible that there are it just seems impossible that there are it just seems impossible that there are more languages not less languages in the more languages not less languages in the more languages not less languages in the Maya area after the last 500 years that Maya area after the last 500 years that Maya area after the last 500 years that they've been through so you think that they've been through so you think that they've been through so you think that there's some kind of process of either there's some kind of process of either there's some kind of process of either rapidly generating dialects or there rapidly generating dialects or there rapidly generating dialects or there always has been these dialects or I always has been these dialects or I always has been these dialects or I should say their distinct should say their distinct should say their distinct languages even though there's a common languages even though there's a common languages even though there's a common writing system writing system writing system there must have been a way that multiple there must have been a way that multiple there must have been a way that multiple languages understood the same writing languages understood the same writing languages understood the same writing system or maybe there was something like system or maybe there was something like system or maybe there was something like like Latin you know how there was a like Latin you know how there was a like Latin you know how there was a period in Europe where like most people period in Europe where like most people period in Europe where like most people were illiterate and there was this this were illiterate and there was this this were illiterate and there was this this priesthood who all understood Latin and priesthood who all understood Latin and priesthood who all understood Latin and they wrote in Latin yeah may maybe the they wrote in Latin yeah may maybe the they wrote in Latin yeah may maybe the the hieroglyphs represent a kind of the hieroglyphs represent a kind of the hieroglyphs represent a kind of Latin in the ancient Maya world but we

Latin in the ancient Maya world but we Latin in the ancient Maya world but we don't really know and there's not clear don't really know and there's not clear don't really know and there's not clear evidence to fill in the gaps of How It's evidence to fill in the gaps of How It's evidence to fill in the gaps of How It's possible to have that possible to have that possible to have that right but we did realize it was actually right but we did realize it was actually right but we did realize it was actually a Russian scholar named Yori konor roof a Russian scholar named Yori konor roof a Russian scholar named Yori konor roof who broke the code the Americans and the who broke the code the Americans and the who broke the code the Americans and the Europeans were absolutely sure that the Europeans were absolutely sure that the Europeans were absolutely sure that the language was uh that the written language was uh that the written language was uh that the written language was a dead language but Yuri language was a dead language but Yuri language was a dead language but Yuri not knowing any of that not being filled not knowing any of that not being filled not knowing any of that not being filled with all of those thoughts from America with all of those thoughts from America with all of those thoughts from America and Europe went about it in the way that and Europe went about it in the way that and Europe went about it in the way that he was he was he was taught uh in his in his grad school in taught uh in his in his grad school in taught uh in his in his grad school in Moscow and just went to the dictionaries Moscow and just went to the dictionaries Moscow and just went to the dictionaries and he looked at yucatech language that and he looked at yucatech language that and he looked at yucatech language that they're speaking today and he applied it they're speaking today and he applied it they're speaking today and he applied it to the symbol system and he knew that to the symbol system and he knew that to the symbol system and he knew that there were certain sounds he used there were certain sounds he used there were certain sounds he used Landa's alphabet and he found there was Landa's alphabet and he found there was Landa's alphabet and he found there was the his two key examples were a picture the his two key examples were a picture the his two key examples were a picture of a dog with a symbol over it and a of a dog with a symbol over it and a of a dog with a symbol over it and a picture of a turkey with a symbol over picture of a turkey with a symbol over picture of a turkey with a symbol over it and the it and the it and the dog uh a dog in yukatek is so he saw two dog uh a dog in yukatek is so he saw two dog uh a dog in yukatek is so he saw two symbols and he said this one's probably symbols and he said this one's probably symbols and he said this one's probably T and this one's o and then the the T and this one's o and then the the T and this one's o and then the the turkey was CS so it would be coup ending turkey was CS so it would be coup ending turkey was CS so it would be coup ending in t and he showed how look you know in t and he showed how look you know in t and he showed how look you know this is sus this is T those two things this is sus this is T those two things this is sus this is T those two things that that should be are the same symbol that that should be are the same symbol that that should be are the same symbol and that began this process of and that began this process of and that began this process of unraveling the s that we're still

unraveling the s that we're still unraveling the s that we're still working on today that's fascinating just working on today that's fascinating just working on today that's fascinating just that decoding process is that decoding process is that decoding process is fascinating like how do you even figure fascinating like how do you even figure fascinating like how do you even figure that out and there's probably still is that out and there's probably still is that out and there's probably still is there still are you aware of any um there still are you aware of any um there still are you aware of any um written languages that haven't been written languages that haven't been written languages that haven't been decoded yet yeah yeah there's a number decoded yet yeah yeah there's a number decoded yet yeah yeah there's a number of them there's uh Easter Island script of them there's uh Easter Island script of them there's uh Easter Island script I was just talking to uh We've I was just talking to uh We've I was just talking to uh We've apparently made a few advances there now apparently made a few advances there now apparently made a few advances there now it's called wrongo wrango and we only it's called wrongo wrango and we only it's called wrongo wrango and we only have about maybe 25 examples of text have about maybe 25 examples of text have about maybe 25 examples of text but we're beginning to break that but we're beginning to break that but we're beginning to break that there's also the the big one is there's also the the big one is there's also the the big one is Haren Haren for a long time we used to Haren Haren for a long time we used to Haren Haren for a long time we used to say there were there were five say there were there were five say there were there were five independent scripts on the planet and independent scripts on the planet and independent scripts on the planet and those were Chinese CA form which is those were Chinese CA form which is those were Chinese CA form which is Mesopotamian Mesopotamian Mesopotamian Egyptian Maya and then Haren which is Egyptian Maya and then Haren which is Egyptian Maya and then Haren which is from Northern India that's the only one from Northern India that's the only one from Northern India that's the only one that we've never cracked and now all the that we've never cracked and now all the that we've never cracked and now all the epigraphers the people that's the term epigraphers the people that's the term epigraphers the people that's the term for epigraphy is uh translating these for epigraphy is uh translating these for epigraphy is uh translating these languages they're all ganging up on languages they're all ganging up on languages they're all ganging up on heroen and want to kick it off the list heroen and want to kick it off the list heroen and want to kick it off the list because we can't break it it had a a big because we can't break it it had a a big because we can't break it it had a a big enough symbol set but no one's been able enough symbol set but no one's been able enough symbol set but no one's been able to crack it and now they're saying it's to crack it and now they're saying it's to crack it and now they're saying it's just an elaborate symbol set and doesn't just an elaborate symbol set and doesn't just an elaborate symbol set and doesn't reflect the the spoken word that's uh reflect the the spoken word that's uh reflect the the spoken word that's uh that's a that's a hypothesis but it's that's a that's a hypothesis but it's that's a that's a hypothesis but it's which is would would explain why it's so which is would would explain why it's so which is would would explain why it's so difficult break but you know we could difficult break but you know we could difficult break but you know we could just be faced with a quitter generation

just be faced with a quitter generation just be faced with a quitter generation maybe somebody will pick up the Baton maybe somebody will pick up the Baton maybe somebody will pick up the Baton Next Generation days with their the Next Generation days with their the Next Generation days with their the other one that fascinates Me is from the other one that fascinates Me is from the other one that fascinates Me is from the Americas it's the kipo the the Inca had Americas it's the kipo the the Inca had Americas it's the kipo the the Inca had the kipo this knotted string records but the kipo this knotted string records but the kipo this knotted string records but it was definitely encoding more than it was definitely encoding more than it was definitely encoding more than just math we know the math I know lots I just math we know the math I know lots I just math we know the math I know lots I I can do the math keepo and figure out I can do the math keepo and figure out I can do the math keepo and figure out what they're totaling and things yeah what they're totaling and things yeah what they're totaling and things yeah there's a Keo right thereo are recording there's a Keo right thereo are recording there's a Keo right thereo are recording devices fashioned from strings ially devices fashioned from strings ially devices fashioned from strings ially used by a number of cultures in the used by a number of cultures in the used by a number of cultures in the region of Indian South America a keepu region of Indian South America a keepu region of Indian South America a keepu usually consist of cotton or CET fiber usually consist of cotton or CET fiber usually consist of cotton or CET fiber strings so there's a set of strings and strings so there's a set of strings and strings so there's a set of strings and they're supposed to what to be saying they're supposed to what to be saying they're supposed to what to be saying something there there's one long string something there there's one long string something there there's one long string that the little ones dangle off of and that the little ones dangle off of and that the little ones dangle off of and each one of the the dangling strings each one of the the dangling strings each one of the the dangling strings have sets of knots on them and the knots have sets of knots on them and the knots have sets of knots on them and the knots some of them are mathematical keepo and some of them are mathematical keepo and some of them are mathematical keepo and those we can just do the math we can those we can just do the math we can those we can just do the math we can prove that it's math MH um they also prove that it's math MH um they also prove that it's math MH um they also encoded language in there they had had encoded language in there they had had encoded language in there they had had entire libraries in Cusco where Spanish entire libraries in Cusco where Spanish entire libraries in Cusco where Spanish conquistadors were brought through and conquistadors were brought through and conquistadors were brought through and the caretakers of the libraries would the caretakers of the libraries would the caretakers of the libraries would just they'd say uh pull that one down just they'd say uh pull that one down just they'd say uh pull that one down read that one to me and he'd pull it out read that one to me and he'd pull it out read that one to me and he'd pull it out and just read a history of something and just read a history of something and just read a history of something that happened 200 years earlier so it that happened 200 years earlier so it that happened 200 years earlier so it was definitely writing but in the was definitely writing but in the was definitely writing but in the 1570s one uh one head of the church 1570s one uh one head of the church 1570s one uh one head of the church there had all of the people that could there had all of the people that could there had all of the people that could read them called kipu kayaks ga GED up read them called kipu kayaks ga GED up read them called kipu kayaks ga GED up had them read all of their Kos and

had them read all of their Kos and had them read all of their Kos and transcribe them into Spanish books and transcribe them into Spanish books and transcribe them into Spanish books and then had the Kos burned and those people then had the Kos burned and those people then had the Kos burned and those people murdered okay well there you go and so murdered okay well there you go and so murdered okay well there you go and so we can't break the code still today but we can't break the code still today but we can't break the code still today but we know it was absolutely a written we know it was absolutely a written we know it was absolutely a written language though it wasn't written it was language though it wasn't written it was language though it wasn't written it was weaved or knotted and there's still some weaved or knotted and there's still some weaved or knotted and there's still some Keepers available that could be uh Keepers available that could be uh Keepers available that could be uh there's I think now we've just crossed there's I think now we've just crossed there's I think now we've just crossed the 1,000 mark M so we have a thousand the 1,000 mark M so we have a thousand the 1,000 mark M so we have a thousand Kos there's enough to break the Kos there's enough to break the Kos there's enough to break the code um and and I think this generation code um and and I think this generation code um and and I think this generation might be the one that does it it's sad might be the one that does it it's sad might be the one that does it it's sad that so few are have survived yeah I that so few are have survived yeah I that so few are have survived yeah I mean a thousand is good but it's but see mean a thousand is good but it's but see mean a thousand is good but it's but see there's Peru has barely scratched the there's Peru has barely scratched the there's Peru has barely scratched the surface with archaeology there's so much surface with archaeology there's so much surface with archaeology there's so much out there there's there was a priest I out there there's there was a priest I out there there's there was a priest I read about named uh Diego read about named uh Diego read about named uh Diego dorz who was one of the early people in dorz who was one of the early people in dorz who was one of the early people in Peru through converting communities and Peru through converting communities and Peru through converting communities and his Chronicle is real clear that he his Chronicle is real clear that he his Chronicle is real clear that he wanted to teach this community of 3,000 wanted to teach this community of 3,000 wanted to teach this community of 3,000 people all the Spanish prayers the people all the Spanish prayers the people all the Spanish prayers the important ones for them to be converted important ones for them to be converted important ones for them to be converted into Christianity and he had the the into Christianity and he had the the into Christianity and he had the the communities kipo kayaks not Kus for each communities kipo kayaks not Kus for each communities kipo kayaks not Kus for each person that told them that read they person that told them that read they person that told them that read they could read them out and memorize the could read them out and memorize the could read them out and memorize the prayers and if they were caught without prayers and if they were caught without prayers and if they were caught without their keoo in town they were flogged so their keoo in town they were flogged so their keoo in town they were flogged so he had 3,000 of the same keoo made and

he had 3,000 of the same keoo made and he had 3,000 of the same keoo made and handed out to this community if we find handed out to this community if we find handed out to this community if we find that community and find it that community and find it that community and find it Cemetery there is a Rosetta Stone you Cemetery there is a Rosetta Stone you Cemetery there is a Rosetta Stone you know it is probably the case that there know it is probably the case that there know it is probably the case that there is somebody in Peru and maybe a large is somebody in Peru and maybe a large is somebody in Peru and maybe a large community that knows this language that community that knows this language that community that knows this language that understands and like you just have to understands and like you just have to understands and like you just have to show up and ask them and it's it's like show up and ask them and it's it's like show up and ask them and it's it's like they're like oh yeah yeah they there they're like oh yeah yeah they there they're like oh yeah yeah they there there are some communities that are there are some communities that are there are some communities that are using them there's a couple of them that using them there's a couple of them that using them there's a couple of them that we had high for and then it was apparent we had high for and then it was apparent we had high for and then it was apparent that they were just making up they that they were just making up they that they were just making up they didn't actually know how to read it they didn't actually know how to read it they didn't actually know how to read it they just knew it used to be read so they just knew it used to be read so they just knew it used to be read so they like made a bunch of stuff about what it like made a bunch of stuff about what it like made a bunch of stuff about what it says and they bring it out and they act says and they bring it out and they act says and they bring it out and they act like they can read it but then when you like they can read it but then when you like they can read it but then when you ask them the details they don't know ask them the details they don't know ask them the details they don't know yeah but then on a much simpler level yeah but then on a much simpler level yeah but then on a much simpler level there's uh llama herders who keep a there's uh llama herders who keep a there's uh llama herders who keep a string in their pocket and they've string in their pocket and they've string in their pocket and they've they've got uh the knots equaling how they've got uh the knots equaling how they've got uh the knots equaling how many llamas they have and then they have many llamas they have and then they have many llamas they have and then they have subcategories of information like this subcategories of information like this subcategories of information like this one's sick one's sick one's sick the we've lost these ones this one's the we've lost these ones this one's the we've lost these ones this one's pregnant so they have these more simple pregnant so they have these more simple pregnant so they have these more simple and more mathematical keos but they're and more mathematical keos but they're and more mathematical keos but they're using them to effect as a as a record is using them to effect as a as a record is using them to effect as a as a record is it possible through archaeology to know it possible through archaeology to know it possible through archaeology to know what you know the social organization of what you know the social organization of what you know the social organization of the Maya was like the Maya was like the Maya was like what uh maybe if there was a hierarchy what uh maybe if there was a hierarchy what uh maybe if there was a hierarchy maybe what the political structure was maybe what the political structure was maybe what the political structure was if there was a leader different roles if there was a leader different roles if there was a leader different roles you priests or like who had the power you priests or like who had the power you priests or like who had the power who was powerless who had certain kinds

who was powerless who had certain kinds who was powerless who had certain kinds of roles is it possible to know that of roles is it possible to know that of roles is it possible to know that actually because of hieroglyphs yeah we actually because of hieroglyphs yeah we actually because of hieroglyphs yeah we know a whole lot there's you know basic know a whole lot there's you know basic know a whole lot there's you know basic things that archaeology which is a very things that archaeology which is a very things that archaeology which is a very blunt tool can figure out like this guy blunt tool can figure out like this guy blunt tool can figure out like this guy lives in a rich house this guy lives in lives in a rich house this guy lives in lives in a rich house this guy lives in a poor house but um the hieroglyphs tell a poor house but um the hieroglyphs tell a poor house but um the hieroglyphs tell us specific stuff about uh who can rule us specific stuff about uh who can rule us specific stuff about uh who can rule that it was that it was that it was hereditary that uh that hereditary rule hereditary that uh that hereditary rule hereditary that uh that hereditary rule was based on Royal Blood that could be was based on Royal Blood that could be was based on Royal Blood that could be burned and connect to the ancestors that burned and connect to the ancestors that burned and connect to the ancestors that lived up in the sky versus the one lived up in the sky versus the one lived up in the sky versus the one that's lived in the Underworld it also that's lived in the Underworld it also that's lived in the Underworld it also told us things about hierarchy like that told us things about hierarchy like that told us things about hierarchy like that there were councils of Lords underneath there were councils of Lords underneath there were councils of Lords underneath the king who each represented Clans who the king who each represented Clans who the king who each represented Clans who had their own neighborhoods and that had their own neighborhoods and that had their own neighborhoods and that there were revolving positions of uh there were revolving positions of uh there were revolving positions of uh Authority there was uh the the site that Authority there was uh the the site that Authority there was uh the the site that I mapped for my dissertation and spent I mapped for my dissertation and spent I mapped for my dissertation and spent years in in the jungle there uh years in in the jungle there uh years in in the jungle there uh pen had a Lord's title named Fire Lord pen had a Lord's title named Fire Lord pen had a Lord's title named Fire Lord that was one of the like generals of that was one of the like generals of that was one of the like generals of their army and we could tell that their army and we could tell that their army and we could tell that position changed over time so there was position changed over time so there was position changed over time so there was one guy named chak Zoots who was the one guy named chak Zoots who was the one guy named chak Zoots who was the fire lord uh for the early part of a fire lord uh for the early part of a fire lord uh for the early part of a reign of a king called the konob and reign of a king called the konob and reign of a king called the konob and then by the time he carves this other then by the time he carves this other then by the time he carves this other panel there's another guy in the panel there's another guy in the panel there's another guy in the position of of a how which was the position of of a how which was the position of of a how which was the fire lord and so he had got promoted it

fire lord and so he had got promoted it fire lord and so he had got promoted it was well he could have been killed I was well he could have been killed I was well he could have been killed I mean the case of that but then we have mean the case of that but then we have mean the case of that but then we have the interesting case of uh in the post the interesting case of uh in the post the interesting case of uh in the post classic they shed the idea of Kings they classic they shed the idea of Kings they classic they shed the idea of Kings they don't like kings anymore that's probably don't like kings anymore that's probably don't like kings anymore that's probably a big part of why the classic a big part of why the classic a big part of why the classic disappearance and the abandonment of all disappearance and the abandonment of all disappearance and the abandonment of all those cities happened people just got those cities happened people just got those cities happened people just got sick of sick of sick of kings and so they turn into this more kings and so they turn into this more kings and so they turn into this more Council system at Council system at Council system at chichin but then when chich chinita chichin but then when chich chinita chichin but then when chich chinita Falls there's a new city that's uh Falls there's a new city that's uh Falls there's a new city that's uh that's architecture looks a lot like that's architecture looks a lot like that's architecture looks a lot like chinita it's called mayapan but it has chinita it's called mayapan but it has chinita it's called mayapan but it has uh what is called the league of uh what is called the league of uh what is called the league of mayapan and it has a council of mayapan and it has a council of mayapan and it has a council of representatives from the communities representatives from the communities representatives from the communities from all around the ucatan and it is from all around the ucatan and it is from all around the ucatan and it is basically a basically a basically a democracy it's a it is a Maya democracy democracy it's a it is a Maya democracy democracy it's a it is a Maya democracy that happens that individuals from all that happens that individuals from all that happens that individuals from all around around the Yucatan are there they around around the Yucatan are there they around around the Yucatan are there they each each family has their own Council each each family has their own Council each each family has their own Council house at mayapan though they live back house at mayapan though they live back house at mayapan though they live back at their place it's kind of like Amaya at their place it's kind of like Amaya at their place it's kind of like Amaya Congress representative democracy it it Congress representative democracy it it Congress representative democracy it it really was I mean and this happens in uh really was I mean and this happens in uh really was I mean and this happens in uh I guess I guess I guess 1250 ad that this this Maya democracy 1250 ad that this this Maya democracy 1250 ad that this this Maya democracy happens and we know the names of them we happens and we know the names of them we happens and we know the names of them we know the families and of course they know the families and of course they know the families and of course they were humans So eventually they screwed were humans So eventually they screwed were humans So eventually they screwed it all up one family murdered another it all up one family murdered another it all up one family murdered another family and the whole the whole city family and the whole the whole city family and the whole the whole city burned yeah and of course it's probably

burned yeah and of course it's probably burned yeah and of course it's probably some fascinating corruption which is some fascinating corruption which is some fascinating corruption which is hard to discover through uh part of it hard to discover through uh part of it hard to discover through uh part of it was the Aztec screwing things up the was the Aztec screwing things up the was the Aztec screwing things up the Aztecs came down with all sorts of like Aztecs came down with all sorts of like Aztecs came down with all sorts of like we'll buy everything you're making and we'll buy everything you're making and we'll buy everything you're making and then eventually they were like could we then eventually they were like could we then eventually they were like could we maybe buy some humans yeah and then one maybe buy some humans yeah and then one maybe buy some humans yeah and then one family was like no and the other family family was like no and the other family family was like no and the other family was like I don't know they're making us was like I don't know they're making us was like I don't know they're making us a lot of money so then you know they a lot of money so then you know they a lot of money so then you know they they murdered each other and the water they murdered each other and the water they murdered each other and the water supply got polluted and then the city supply got polluted and then the city supply got polluted and then the city burned seems like slavery murder and burned seems like slavery murder and burned seems like slavery murder and disease is a large component of the disease is a large component of the disease is a large component of the story of story of story of humans um you mentioned different humans um you mentioned different humans um you mentioned different periods of the Maya the classic the periods of the Maya the classic the periods of the Maya the classic the postclassic the preclassic the archaic postclassic the preclassic the archaic postclassic the preclassic the archaic can you just speak to that so archaic is can you just speak to that so archaic is can you just speak to that so archaic is before there was really a civilization before there was really a civilization before there was really a civilization that was uh archaic is pretty much when that was uh archaic is pretty much when that was uh archaic is pretty much when everybody's hunter gatherers so the everybody's hunter gatherers so the everybody's hunter gatherers so the classic period was the Golden Age and classic period was the Golden Age and classic period was the Golden Age and then the preclassic is is the then the preclassic is is the then the preclassic is is the interesting uh time that we were talking interesting uh time that we were talking interesting uh time that we were talking about and the post classic is when the about and the post classic is when the about and the post classic is when the Democracy came about well Midway through Democracy came about well Midway through Democracy came about well Midway through it yeah yeah reverted back to council it yeah yeah reverted back to council it yeah yeah reverted back to council systems the Maya love to be part of systems the Maya love to be part of systems the Maya love to be part of councils so yeah we have preclassic is councils so yeah we have preclassic is councils so yeah we have preclassic is like the origins of civilization they're like the origins of civilization they're like the origins of civilization they're starting to build cities they're starting to build cities they're starting to build cities they're starting to create their calendar starting to create their calendar starting to create their calendar they're starting to create these they're starting to create these they're starting to create these wonderful works of art and the classic wonderful works of art and the classic wonderful works of art and the classic period if you look at at 10 different period if you look at at 10 different period if you look at at 10 different textbooks for the Maya you'll get 10 textbooks for the Maya you'll get 10 textbooks for the Maya you'll get 10 different dates that wiggle around in different dates that wiggle around in different dates that wiggle around in there but basically that's the that's there but basically that's the that's there but basically that's the that's the age of Kings to me that's when these

the age of Kings to me that's when these the age of Kings to me that's when these cities decide that they're going to cities decide that they're going to cities decide that they're going to organize themselves organize themselves organize themselves around uh Elite royal families that have around uh Elite royal families that have around uh Elite royal families that have this magical blood that can contact this magical blood that can contact this magical blood that can contact their ancestors that are directly in their ancestors that are directly in their ancestors that are directly in contact with the gods the Maya never contact with the gods the Maya never contact with the gods the Maya never contact their gods directly they contact contact their gods directly they contact contact their gods directly they contact their ancestors who were up there who their ancestors who were up there who their ancestors who were up there who act like liaison to the gods and so the act like liaison to the gods and so the act like liaison to the gods and so the Maya Age of Kings has these dynasties Maya Age of Kings has these dynasties Maya Age of Kings has these dynasties sprouting up where these people have you sprouting up where these people have you sprouting up where these people have you know basically snowed the rest of the know basically snowed the rest of the know basically snowed the rest of the people that they've got a special people that they've got a special people that they've got a special quality of their blood and only their quality of their blood and only their quality of their blood and only their offspring can do the same trick and talk offspring can do the same trick and talk offspring can do the same trick and talk to the gods where everybody every jiah to the gods where everybody every jiah to the gods where everybody every jiah can let their blood and burn it and can let their blood and burn it and can let their blood and burn it and contact their ancestor but Jo Maya's dad contact their ancestor but Jo Maya's dad contact their ancestor but Jo Maya's dad is just a corn farmer who Liv lives down is just a corn farmer who Liv lives down is just a corn farmer who Liv lives down below and he's got no influence over the below and he's got no influence over the below and he's got no influence over the gods but the rulers their their Spirits gods but the rulers their their Spirits gods but the rulers their their Spirits go down briefly but then they go up into go down briefly but then they go up into go down briefly but then they go up into the heavens and reside where the gods the heavens and reside where the gods the heavens and reside where the gods are and can act as Liaisons so that's are and can act as Liaisons so that's are and can act as Liaisons so that's the validation for this kingship that the validation for this kingship that the validation for this kingship that happens for about 400 years I know we we happens for about 400 years I know we we happens for about 400 years I know we we say 250 to 900 which is kind of the the say 250 to 900 which is kind of the the say 250 to 900 which is kind of the the encompassing edges of it but it's encompassing edges of it but it's encompassing edges of it but it's interesting that it's actually interesting that it's actually interesting that it's actually specifically the ninth Bok tune of their specifically the ninth Bok tune of their specifically the ninth Bok tune of their history the ninth Bach tune begins in history the ninth Bach tune begins in history the ninth Bach tune begins in like like like 426 and it ends in like

426 and it ends in like 426 and it ends in like 829 so it's a 400e period of time and 829 so it's a 400e period of time and 829 so it's a 400e period of time and before that there were no Kings and before that there were no Kings and before that there were no Kings and after that there really aren't Kings after that there really aren't Kings after that there really aren't Kings they're heads of they're heads of they're heads of councils so it's I I call it the age of councils so it's I I call it the age of councils so it's I I call it the age of Kings where everybody's following the Kings where everybody's following the Kings where everybody's following the directives of basically a despot and for directives of basically a despot and for directives of basically a despot and for a while that's great I mean cities build a while that's great I mean cities build a while that's great I mean cities build up populations happening uh that's it's up populations happening uh that's it's up populations happening uh that's it's I I see it as kind of a cult of I I see it as kind of a cult of I I see it as kind of a cult of personality moment too strong personality moment too strong personality moment too strong charismatic leaders inspire people to do charismatic leaders inspire people to do charismatic leaders inspire people to do great things together but eventually great things together but eventually great things together but eventually like happens all the time with power too like happens all the time with power too like happens all the time with power too much power corrupts all of a sudden much power corrupts all of a sudden much power corrupts all of a sudden there's this unwieldy huge Elite Class there's this unwieldy huge Elite Class there's this unwieldy huge Elite Class that has to be treated Special by that has to be treated Special by that has to be treated Special by everybody else and uh and they start everybody else and uh and they start everybody else and uh and they start saying well I think we should fight with saying well I think we should fight with saying well I think we should fight with those guys and you guys should go take those guys and you guys should go take those guys and you guys should go take these things and people eventually get these things and people eventually get these things and people eventually get sick of it and they walk away from these sick of it and they walk away from these sick of it and they walk away from these cities and that's how we get the cities and that's how we get the cities and that's how we get the mysterious Maya collapse where all these mysterious Maya collapse where all these mysterious Maya collapse where all these cities are just gone that's one of the cities are just gone that's one of the cities are just gone that's one of the great mysteries of uh the Maya great mysteries of uh the Maya great mysteries of uh the Maya civilization is that over a very short civilization is that over a very short civilization is that over a very short period of time what like 100 years it period of time what like 100 years it period of time what like 100 years it seems to have declined very rapidly it seems to have declined very rapidly it seems to have declined very rapidly it collapsed what do you think explains collapsed what do you think explains collapsed what do you think explains that what happened I think it's a that what happened I think it's a that what happened I think it's a failing of archaeology to properly see failing of archaeology to properly see failing of archaeology to properly see what was happening I think that most of what was happening I think that most of what was happening I think that most of those cities populations moved you know those cities populations moved you know those cities populations moved you know no more than 20 to 40 kilometers out and

no more than 20 to 40 kilometers out and no more than 20 to 40 kilometers out and started their own farm and they lived in started their own farm and they lived in started their own farm and they lived in perishable houses and all archaeology perishable houses and all archaeology perishable houses and all archaeology signature sees is that nobody lives in signature sees is that nobody lives in signature sees is that nobody lives in the city center anymore we don't see a the city center anymore we don't see a the city center anymore we don't see a bunch of mass bodies there was no bunch of mass bodies there was no bunch of mass bodies there was no there's no evidence of people getting there's no evidence of people getting there's no evidence of people getting sick there are certain cities that sick there are certain cities that sick there are certain cities that fought with each other at the end and we fought with each other at the end and we fought with each other at the end and we see that signature plain as day we see see that signature plain as day we see see that signature plain as day we see we know when a city was attacked and we know when a city was attacked and we know when a city was attacked and burned mostly that didn't happen people burned mostly that didn't happen people burned mostly that didn't happen people moved and migrated and it seems like moved and migrated and it seems like moved and migrated and it seems like right there around like between right there around like between right there around like between 8900 a lot of the elites that were on 8900 a lot of the elites that were on 8900 a lot of the elites that were on top in the most of it was in the top in the most of it was in the top in the most of it was in the rainforests of northern Guatemala they rainforests of northern Guatemala they rainforests of northern Guatemala they move they move in two directions some of move they move in two directions some of move they move in two directions some of them move into to the highlands of them move into to the highlands of them move into to the highlands of Guatemala and some of them move up into Guatemala and some of them move up into Guatemala and some of them move up into the the the Yucatan the city of chichin becomes the Yucatan the city of chichin becomes the Yucatan the city of chichin becomes the next big capital in next big capital in next big capital in Yucatan but the word itsa is actually a Yucatan but the word itsa is actually a Yucatan but the word itsa is actually a word word word describing the people who lived around describing the people who lived around describing the people who lived around Lake Lake Lake P10 in northern Guatemala and all of the P10 in northern Guatemala and all of the P10 in northern Guatemala and all of the Maya are super clear about that that the Maya are super clear about that that the Maya are super clear about that that the ETA came in as immigrants with these new ETA came in as immigrants with these new ETA came in as immigrants with these new ideas and created chichin so the the ideas and created chichin so the the ideas and created chichin so the the elites who were no longer welcome in elites who were no longer welcome in elites who were no longer welcome in their cities just moved and set up shop their cities just moved and set up shop their cities just moved and set up shop somewhere else so why was there a somewhere else so why was there a somewhere else so why was there a decline what was maybe the Catalyst was decline what was maybe the Catalyst was decline what was maybe the Catalyst was there specific kind of events that

there specific kind of events that there specific kind of events that started this was this an idea that kind started this was this an idea that kind started this was this an idea that kind of transformed the society we are still of transformed the society we are still of transformed the society we are still debating that we I don't think there is debating that we I don't think there is debating that we I don't think there is a single reason I think humans are a single reason I think humans are a single reason I think humans are complicated I think a lot of things led complicated I think a lot of things led complicated I think a lot of things led to this one thing we can see to this one thing we can see to this one thing we can see archaeologically is that every one of archaeologically is that every one of archaeologically is that every one of the Cities became overpopulated they the Cities became overpopulated they the Cities became overpopulated they were too popular and we think that they were too popular and we think that they were too popular and we think that they pushed the limits of their capacity to pushed the limits of their capacity to pushed the limits of their capacity to feed and House people mhm we see it in feed and House people mhm we see it in feed and House people mhm we see it in lots of the Cities at the end of the lots of the Cities at the end of the lots of the Cities at the end of the classic period that people are classic period that people are classic period that people are seasonally seasonally seasonally starving I remember uh really Stark starving I remember uh really Stark starving I remember uh really Stark evidence in Copan Honduras Copan was evidence in Copan Honduras Copan was evidence in Copan Honduras Copan was this beautiful city lineage of 17 Kings this beautiful city lineage of 17 Kings this beautiful city lineage of 17 Kings but the last kings and the last Elite but the last kings and the last Elite but the last kings and the last Elite burials that we dig from the city burials that we dig from the city burials that we dig from the city center uh the teeth are the telling part center uh the teeth are the telling part center uh the teeth are the telling part they get this thing when you when you're they get this thing when you when you're they get this thing when you when you're growing up and you're not getting enough growing up and you're not getting enough growing up and you're not getting enough food food food seasonally it shows up in the enamel of seasonally it shows up in the enamel of seasonally it shows up in the enamel of your teeth it's called a dental your teeth it's called a dental your teeth it's called a dental hypoplasia and if somebody's seasonally hypoplasia and if somebody's seasonally hypoplasia and if somebody's seasonally starving it gets these lines in their starving it gets these lines in their starving it gets these lines in their teeth and that last generation of Maya teeth and that last generation of Maya teeth and that last generation of Maya before they left C before they left C before they left C even the rich people are seasonally even the rich people are seasonally even the rich people are seasonally starving so there's a problem there for starving so there's a problem there for starving so there's a problem there for sure but I also think it's a it's a sure but I also think it's a it's a sure but I also think it's a it's a weird thing it was not an Empire it was weird thing it was not an Empire it was weird thing it was not an Empire it was a group of independent city states like

a group of independent city states like a group of independent city states like Greece some of them were Allied some of Greece some of them were Allied some of Greece some of them were Allied some of them were enemies there was a huge Civil them were enemies there was a huge Civil them were enemies there was a huge Civil War that settled out about the end of War that settled out about the end of War that settled out about the end of the classic period so if it was Europe the classic period so if it was Europe the classic period so if it was Europe you know the victors would have taken you know the victors would have taken you know the victors would have taken over the losers would have beat it and over the losers would have beat it and over the losers would have beat it and gone wherever they went but when they gone wherever they went but when they gone wherever they went but when they abandoned these cities that were abandoned these cities that were abandoned these cities that were independent still they all left both the independent still they all left both the independent still they all left both the guys that won and the guys that lost the guys that won and the guys that lost the guys that won and the guys that lost the war so it couldn't be just as simple as war so it couldn't be just as simple as war so it couldn't be just as simple as spoils go to the spoils go to the spoils go to the Victor um it's such a wide area not Victor um it's such a wide area not Victor um it's such a wide area not everybody was starving like the people everybody was starving like the people everybody was starving like the people in the copon valley so I I personally in the copon valley so I I personally in the copon valley so I I personally think it was cindric timed it is think it was cindric timed it is think it was cindric timed it is interesting to note that that ninth interesting to note that that ninth interesting to note that that ninth period that ninth 400-year period it period that ninth 400-year period it period that ninth 400-year period it ends right then and I think a lot of ends right then and I think a lot of ends right then and I think a lot of people I you know I can't prove it people I you know I can't prove it people I you know I can't prove it archaeologically but I think a lot of archaeologically but I think a lot of archaeologically but I think a lot of people said we're coming to the end of a people said we're coming to the end of a people said we're coming to the end of a great cycle and we need to renew we need great cycle and we need to renew we need great cycle and we need to renew we need to change what we're doing when you talk to change what we're doing when you talk to change what we're doing when you talk to the Maya today like at the end of to the Maya today like at the end of to the Maya today like at the end of this uh 2012 thing if you actually talk this uh 2012 thing if you actually talk this uh 2012 thing if you actually talk to Maya say you know what happens at the to Maya say you know what happens at the to Maya say you know what happens at the end of a big cycle here they say Cycles end of a big cycle here they say Cycles end of a big cycle here they say Cycles are a time of renewal and trans are a time of renewal and trans are a time of renewal and trans formation that it is all of our formation that it is all of our formation that it is all of our obligation to change our lives at the obligation to change our lives at the obligation to change our lives at the end of cycles that change is coming we end of cycles that change is coming we end of cycles that change is coming we can either be part of it or we can get can either be part of it or we can get can either be part of it or we can get steamrolled by steamrolled by steamrolled by it the Aztecs did this neat thing called it the Aztecs did this neat thing called it the Aztecs did this neat thing called the new fire ceremony every 52 years

the new fire ceremony every 52 years the new fire ceremony every 52 years which was the biggest their calendar which was the biggest their calendar which was the biggest their calendar would go they'd burn down perfectly good would go they'd burn down perfectly good would go they'd burn down perfectly good temples and they'd burn down their temples and they'd burn down their temples and they'd burn down their houses sometimes and they would just houses sometimes and they would just houses sometimes and they would just everybody in in society would perform everybody in in society would perform everybody in in society would perform what they called the new fire ceremony what they called the new fire ceremony what they called the new fire ceremony and they would renew the world so I and they would renew the world so I and they would renew the world so I think my personal theory is that the think my personal theory is that the think my personal theory is that the Maya decided at the end of the ninth Bok Maya decided at the end of the ninth Bok Maya decided at the end of the ninth Bok tune that it was time to renew the world tune that it was time to renew the world tune that it was time to renew the world I think this Theory makes sense because I think this Theory makes sense because I think this Theory makes sense because they really internalized the calendar I they really internalized the calendar I they really internalized the calendar I mean it was a really big part of their mean it was a really big part of their mean it was a really big part of their culture the sense of the cyclical nature culture the sense of the cyclical nature culture the sense of the cyclical nature of civilization that's what I think I of civilization that's what I think I of civilization that's what I think I think that uh that they created that think that uh that they created that think that uh that they created that calendar to to P perceive the cycle and calendar to to P perceive the cycle and calendar to to P perceive the cycle and to harmonize with it to harmonize with it to harmonize with it yeah uh you mentioned the Aztec what was yeah uh you mentioned the Aztec what was yeah uh you mentioned the Aztec what was the origin of the Aztec where did these the origin of the Aztec where did these the origin of the Aztec where did these where do these people come from at what where do these people come from at what where do these people come from at what time and how you know almost every one time and how you know almost every one time and how you know almost every one of the cultures we're talking about now of the cultures we're talking about now of the cultures we're talking about now we have two different versions of the we have two different versions of the we have two different versions of the answer to that question we have the answer to that question we have the answer to that question we have the archaeology version and we have the archaeology version and we have the archaeology version and we have the Aztecs themselves the Aztecs have this Aztecs themselves the Aztecs have this Aztecs themselves the Aztecs have this wonderful ation story where they say wonderful ation story where they say wonderful ation story where they say that they came from a place well to the that they came from a place well to the that they came from a place well to the north called north called north called ason and that they had this migration ason and that they had this migration ason and that they had this migration that went through kind of a hero's that went through kind of a hero's that went through kind of a hero's journey where they go to this Snake journey where they go to this Snake journey where they go to this Snake Mountain place and they encounter uh the

Mountain place and they encounter uh the Mountain place and they encounter uh the birth of the war god that they'll birth of the war god that they'll birth of the war god that they'll worship after this and how they stepped worship after this and how they stepped worship after this and how they stepped into the valley of Mexico as the last into the valley of Mexico as the last into the valley of Mexico as the last the Lost Brothers of every one in the the Lost Brothers of every one in the the Lost Brothers of every one in the valley of Mexico they said that they all valley of Mexico they said that they all valley of Mexico they said that they all came from the North near Aon as a place came from the North near Aon as a place came from the North near Aon as a place a cave with seven different passages a cave with seven different passages a cave with seven different passages called uh chikim mostak and that all the called uh chikim mostak and that all the called uh chikim mostak and that all the people who spoke the language nadle came people who spoke the language nadle came people who spoke the language nadle came from the cave and most of them went from the cave and most of them went from the cave and most of them went early to the valley of Mexico and in the early to the valley of Mexico and in the early to the valley of Mexico and in the Aztec uh story they were just the Lost Aztec uh story they were just the Lost Aztec uh story they were just the Lost tribe they were the last Brothers to tribe they were the last Brothers to tribe they were the last Brothers to come in and but then they show up late come in and but then they show up late come in and but then they show up late game and they become mercenaries they game and they become mercenaries they game and they become mercenaries they just start working for communities in just start working for communities in just start working for communities in the valley of Mexico and this takes the valley of Mexico and this takes the valley of Mexico and this takes place in the place in the place in the 1300s so about 200 years before Cortez 1300s so about 200 years before Cortez 1300s so about 200 years before Cortez shows up the Aztecs show up to the shows up the Aztecs show up to the shows up the Aztecs show up to the valley of Mexico and they make valley of Mexico and they make valley of Mexico and they make themselves this uh indispensable group themselves this uh indispensable group themselves this uh indispensable group of mercenaries they do the Dirty Work of mercenaries they do the Dirty Work of mercenaries they do the Dirty Work the all the all the the all the all the the all the all the civilized uh communities around Lake Tes civilized uh communities around Lake Tes civilized uh communities around Lake Tes coko which is in the middle of the which coko which is in the middle of the which coko which is in the middle of the which is now Mexico City it's all dried up but is now Mexico City it's all dried up but is now Mexico City it's all dried up but uh those guys were too civilized to uh those guys were too civilized to uh those guys were too civilized to fight with each other but they could fight with each other but they could fight with each other but they could hire the Aztecs to do their dirty stuff hire the Aztecs to do their dirty stuff hire the Aztecs to do their dirty stuff so the Aztec did that and really changed so the Aztec did that and really changed so the Aztec did that and really changed the politics and the

the politics and the the politics and the game of the valley of Mexico the dirty game of the valley of Mexico the dirty game of the valley of Mexico the dirty stuff there so there the muscle yeah stuff there so there the muscle yeah stuff there so there the muscle yeah they'd go in and and they they'd kill they'd go in and and they they'd kill they'd go in and and they they'd kill whoever you wanted killed and take you whoever you wanted killed and take you whoever you wanted killed and take you now you're the king of this area so one now you're the king of this area so one now you're the king of this area so one of these kings that they were working of these kings that they were working of these kings that they were working for really liked them and decided I'm for really liked them and decided I'm for really liked them and decided I'm going to make the Aztecs part of going to make the Aztecs part of going to make the Aztecs part of our ancestry I'm going to give them my our ancestry I'm going to give them my our ancestry I'm going to give them my daughter to marry the head of the daughter to marry the head of the daughter to marry the head of the Aztecs and the Aztec sacrificed her and Aztecs and the Aztec sacrificed her and Aztecs and the Aztec sacrificed her and that really pissed that guy off so he that really pissed that guy off so he that really pissed that guy off so he took like his whole Army and ran the took like his whole Army and ran the took like his whole Army and ran the Aztecs out for a while they say they Aztecs out for a while they say they Aztecs out for a while they say they live in this horrible desert section live in this horrible desert section live in this horrible desert section eating lizards but then one of their eating lizards but then one of their eating lizards but then one of their priests say we're going to walk around priests say we're going to walk around priests say we're going to walk around the lake and my Visions say that where the lake and my Visions say that where the lake and my Visions say that where we see an eagle sitting on a cactus with we see an eagle sitting on a cactus with we see an eagle sitting on a cactus with a snake in its mouth is where we will a snake in its mouth is where we will a snake in its mouth is where we will build our capital and they see that but build our capital and they see that but build our capital and they see that but it's out on an island in the it's out on an island in the it's out on an island in the lake and they he said well I don't know lake and they he said well I don't know lake and they he said well I don't know that's that's the place so they build up that's that's the place so they build up that's that's the place so they build up an island they go to that Island and an island they go to that Island and an island they go to that Island and then they just start piling up Lake mug then they just start piling up Lake mug then they just start piling up Lake mug until they make a whole city there in until they make a whole city there in until they make a whole city there in the middle of the island they make or the middle of the island they make or the middle of the island they make or the lake they make an Island City MH and the lake they make an Island City MH and the lake they make an Island City MH and all of this occurs in about a 100 years all of this occurs in about a 100 years all of this occurs in about a 100 years so they show up about so they show up about so they show up about 1300 the capital of tinos Tian as they 1300 the capital of tinos Tian as they 1300 the capital of tinos Tian as they called it uh is really established and

called it uh is really established and called it uh is really established and from there they quickly take over the from there they quickly take over the from there they quickly take over the entire Valley they make uh what they entire Valley they make uh what they entire Valley they make uh what they call the Triple Alliance which is the call the Triple Alliance which is the call the Triple Alliance which is the two other big communities of the lake two other big communities of the lake two other big communities of the lake are now their allies but they're not are now their allies but they're not are now their allies but they're not really allies the the Aztecs were brutal really allies the the Aztecs were brutal really allies the the Aztecs were brutal they were just those guys agreed to shut they were just those guys agreed to shut they were just those guys agreed to shut up and let the Aztecs run the up and let the Aztecs run the up and let the Aztecs run the show and then the Aztec spread like a show and then the Aztec spread like a show and then the Aztec spread like a wildfire all the way down into the Maya wildfire all the way down into the Maya wildfire all the way down into the Maya area everywhere they go they rename area everywhere they go they rename area everywhere they go they rename everybody's towns and make them pay everybody's towns and make them pay everybody's towns and make them pay tribute pretty shortl lasting tribute pretty shortl lasting tribute pretty shortl lasting civilization uh spread extremely quickly civilization uh spread extremely quickly civilization uh spread extremely quickly uh famous what what what what are some uh famous what what what what are some uh famous what what what what are some defining qualities that explain that I defining qualities that explain that I defining qualities that explain that I think they were very much like they they think they were very much like they they think they were very much like they they had an attitude like a till of the Hun had an attitude like a till of the Hun had an attitude like a till of the Hun they just had no problem ripping your they just had no problem ripping your they just had no problem ripping your skin off everybody else had become too skin off everybody else had become too skin off everybody else had become too comfortable and too civilized and the comfortable and too civilized and the comfortable and too civilized and the azcs were just mercenary they told azcs were just mercenary they told azcs were just mercenary they told everybody you know we can either rip everybody you know we can either rip everybody you know we can either rip your heart out or you can work for us your heart out or you can work for us your heart out or you can work for us and if you work for us you'll be just and if you work for us you'll be just and if you work for us you'll be just fine they'd go to every town they'd go fine they'd go to every town they'd go fine they'd go to every town they'd go to the first thing they do is they'd to the first thing they do is they'd to the first thing they do is they'd show up with a bunch of uh Merchants show up with a bunch of uh Merchants show up with a bunch of uh Merchants there was a merchant class who were also there was a merchant class who were also there was a merchant class who were also military they were really the the the military they were really the the the military they were really the the the people who assessed where they were people who assessed where they were people who assessed where they were going to attack next they'd go in with a going to attack next they'd go in with a going to attack next they'd go in with a bunch of Aztec products and say we'd bunch of Aztec products and say we'd bunch of Aztec products and say we'd like to trade with you but all the time like to trade with you but all the time like to trade with you but all the time they were assessing their military they were assessing their military they were assessing their military prowess what uh what products they had prowess what uh what products they had prowess what uh what products they had that they could take and then soon after

that they could take and then soon after that they could take and then soon after the poach tekka were there would come the poach tekka were there would come the poach tekka were there would come the military with the reconnaissance the military with the reconnaissance the military with the reconnaissance so the the astec had a huge warrior so the the astec had a huge warrior so the the astec had a huge warrior class as you're saying so what what was class as you're saying so what what was class as you're saying so what what was there just can you uh Linger on their there just can you uh Linger on their there just can you uh Linger on their whole relationship with war and violence whole relationship with war and violence whole relationship with war and violence they they worshiped a war deity their they they worshiped a war deity their they they worshiped a war deity their main Temple was uh the Temple of Mayor main Temple was uh the Temple of Mayor main Temple was uh the Temple of Mayor it had two temples up on top one was to it had two temples up on top one was to it had two temples up on top one was to talak the Rain God who liked a lot of talak the Rain God who liked a lot of talak the Rain God who liked a lot of sacrifice himself but then the other one sacrifice himself but then the other one sacrifice himself but then the other one was we see laosi he was that translates was we see laosi he was that translates was we see laosi he was that translates the hummingbird on the left but he's the the hummingbird on the left but he's the the hummingbird on the left but he's the war God I love that he's a hummingbird war God I love that he's a hummingbird war God I love that he's a hummingbird maybe you know he's fast and he comes maybe you know he's fast and he comes maybe you know he's fast and he comes from the magical side or something but from the magical side or something but from the magical side or something but uh then then right next to the temple on uh then then right next to the temple on uh then then right next to the temple on either side were the two temples of the either side were the two temples of the either side were the two temples of the Warriors one was the eagle Warrior Clan Warriors one was the eagle Warrior Clan Warriors one was the eagle Warrior Clan the other one was the Jaguar Warrior the other one was the Jaguar Warrior the other one was the Jaguar Warrior Clan and they they were symbolically in Clan and they they were symbolically in Clan and they they were symbolically in competition with each other though a competition with each other though a competition with each other though a unified Force I guess you know probably unified Force I guess you know probably unified Force I guess you know probably an analogy between like the Navy and the an analogy between like the Navy and the an analogy between like the Navy and the Air Force you know they were had a Air Force you know they were had a Air Force you know they were had a good-natured competition of who was good-natured competition of who was good-natured competition of who was better but they were the same Force so better but they were the same Force so better but they were the same Force so those were their symbolic Warriors those were their symbolic Warriors those were their symbolic Warriors dressed up in all of their dressed up in all of their dressed up in all of their finery and they would they they would finery and they would they they would finery and they would they they would come at people uh with these two forces come at people uh with these two forces come at people uh with these two forces and it was very and it was very and it was very unlike anything that had happened before

unlike anything that had happened before unlike anything that had happened before in meso America again I think I could in meso America again I think I could in meso America again I think I could draw a parallel to what happened in draw a parallel to what happened in draw a parallel to what happened in Europe Europe Europe you know the famous uh Henry V moment in you know the famous uh Henry V moment in you know the famous uh Henry V moment in aun cor where you know his kind of uh aun cor where you know his kind of uh aun cor where you know his kind of uh rag tag Army wipes out half of France's rag tag Army wipes out half of France's rag tag Army wipes out half of France's aristocracy with the aristocracy with the aristocracy with the Longbow like up until that moment Europe Longbow like up until that moment Europe Longbow like up until that moment Europe had a had a had a very uh Wars for the elite classes kind very uh Wars for the elite classes kind very uh Wars for the elite classes kind of attitude and then after France lost of attitude and then after France lost of attitude and then after France lost half their aristocracy then I was like half their aristocracy then I was like half their aristocracy then I was like maybe we should be hiring from The maybe we should be hiring from The maybe we should be hiring from The Villages the same sort of thing happened Villages the same sort of thing happened Villages the same sort of thing happened with the Aztec that there was a meso with the Aztec that there was a meso with the Aztec that there was a meso America really didn't have huge standing America really didn't have huge standing America really didn't have huge standing armies but the Aztec put this Army armies but the Aztec put this Army armies but the Aztec put this Army together and they intimidated people together and they intimidated people together and they intimidated people they didn't actually have to use it a they didn't actually have to use it a they didn't actually have to use it a lot it was very it was used to great lot it was very it was used to great lot it was very it was used to great effect in the in the valley of Mexico effect in the in the valley of Mexico effect in the in the valley of Mexico and for the rest of meso America it was and for the rest of meso America it was and for the rest of meso America it was mostly The Fear Factor but there also mostly The Fear Factor but there also mostly The Fear Factor but there also seemed to be um you know a seemed to be um you know a seemed to be um you know a celebration of um violence I think you celebration of um violence I think you celebration of um violence I think you said uh that beauty and blood went hand said uh that beauty and blood went hand said uh that beauty and blood went hand inand for the inand for the inand for the Aztec maybe like the Roman Empire was it Aztec maybe like the Roman Empire was it Aztec maybe like the Roman Empire was it they just had maybe a different they just had maybe a different they just had maybe a different relationship with what relationship with what relationship with what violence where that stood in uh the violence where that stood in uh the violence where that stood in uh the purpose of life purpose of existence is purpose of life purpose of existence is purpose of life purpose of existence is that fair to say I would hypothesize so that fair to say I would hypothesize so that fair to say I would hypothesize so I mean that you know I think it's one of I mean that you know I think it's one of I mean that you know I think it's one of the wonderful things about studying

the wonderful things about studying the wonderful things about studying these ancient cultures you know knowing these ancient cultures you know knowing these ancient cultures you know knowing what our human capacity what our human capacity what our human capacity is and the Aztec when I when I said that is and the Aztec when I when I said that is and the Aztec when I when I said that statement I what I what I meant by that statement I what I what I meant by that statement I what I what I meant by that is they were absolutely comfortable with is they were absolutely comfortable with is they were absolutely comfortable with human sacrifice and you know ripping human sacrifice and you know ripping human sacrifice and you know ripping people's hearts out this they had this people's hearts out this they had this people's hearts out this they had this this just you know grotesque violent this just you know grotesque violent this just you know grotesque violent bent but in the same way they also bent but in the same way they also bent but in the same way they also absolutely loved flower gardens and absolutely loved flower gardens and absolutely loved flower gardens and poetry and music and dance the same same poetry and music and dance the same same poetry and music and dance the same same Aztec King who would order the hearts of Aztec King who would order the hearts of Aztec King who would order the hearts of a thousand people extracted also would a thousand people extracted also would a thousand people extracted also would stand up at dinner parties to recite his stand up at dinner parties to recite his stand up at dinner parties to recite his own poetry or the Poetry of famous own poetry or the Poetry of famous own poetry or the Poetry of famous Statesmen that had come before him and Statesmen that had come before him and Statesmen that had come before him and they spent money on things like flower they spent money on things like flower they spent money on things like flower gardens there all of the causeways gardens there all of the causeways gardens there all of the causeways leading to the Aztec capital had leading to the Aztec capital had leading to the Aztec capital had beautiful flower gardens and they had a beautiful flower gardens and they had a beautiful flower gardens and they had a museum and they had an aquarium and a museum and they had an aquarium and a museum and they had an aquarium and a zoo and they had an opera and they had a zoo and they had an opera and they had a zoo and they had an opera and they had a ballet yeah and and these things ballet yeah and and these things ballet yeah and and these things existed together there was not in the existed together there was not in the existed together there was not in the Aztec mind any conflict between Aztec mind any conflict between Aztec mind any conflict between witnessing someone's heart getting witnessing someone's heart getting witnessing someone's heart getting ripped out one moment in the evening ripped out one moment in the evening ripped out one moment in the evening we'd go to the ballet um how does that we'd go to the ballet um how does that we'd go to the ballet um how does that contrast the relationship with war and contrast the relationship with war and contrast the relationship with war and violence with uh with the other

violence with uh with the other violence with uh with the other civilizations of meso America and South civilizations of meso America and South civilizations of meso America and South America Maybe the Maya what was their America Maybe the Maya what was their America Maybe the Maya what was their relationship like with war the Maya were relationship like with war the Maya were relationship like with war the Maya were certainly influenced by the Aztec at the certainly influenced by the Aztec at the certainly influenced by the Aztec at the end so we get a we get a skewed end so we get a we get a skewed end so we get a we get a skewed perspective from the contact period perspective from the contact period perspective from the contact period accounts because the Maya were much more accounts because the Maya were much more accounts because the Maya were much more violent and sacrifice oriented in their violent and sacrifice oriented in their violent and sacrifice oriented in their postclassic rendition but in the classic postclassic rendition but in the classic postclassic rendition but in the classic period it was mostly the priests and the period it was mostly the priests and the period it was mostly the priests and the king who were doing the sacrificing of king who were doing the sacrificing of king who were doing the sacrificing of themselves that we know that the Maya themselves that we know that the Maya themselves that we know that the Maya Kings would cut their penises and then Kings would cut their penises and then Kings would cut their penises and then bleed that blood onto paper and uh the bleed that blood onto paper and uh the bleed that blood onto paper and uh the paper would burn and become the smoke paper would burn and become the smoke paper would burn and become the smoke through which they they'd uh commune through which they they'd uh commune through which they they'd uh commune with their ancestors but they'd actually with their ancestors but they'd actually with their ancestors but they'd actually tie this paper onto their penis cut it tie this paper onto their penis cut it tie this paper onto their penis cut it and then dance so the blood and then dance so the blood and then dance so the blood splattered uh but it was them cutting splattered uh but it was them cutting splattered uh but it was them cutting themselves it was different than killing themselves it was different than killing themselves it was different than killing a bunch of other people for it it was a a bunch of other people for it it was a a bunch of other people for it it was a Autos sacrifice we call it still very Autos sacrifice we call it still very Autos sacrifice we call it still very maob but very different than deciding a maob but very different than deciding a maob but very different than deciding a whole bunch of other people should die whole bunch of other people should die whole bunch of other people should die it was a self sacrifice thing can you it was a self sacrifice thing can you it was a self sacrifice thing can you speak to sacrifice a bit more animal speak to sacrifice a bit more animal speak to sacrifice a bit more animal sacrifice Human Sacrifice what what role sacrifice Human Sacrifice what what role sacrifice Human Sacrifice what what role did that play in um for the Maya for the did that play in um for the Maya for the did that play in um for the Maya for the Aztec for the different cultures Aztec for the different cultures Aztec for the different cultures here was that religious in nature it was here was that religious in nature it was here was that religious in nature it was absolutely religious in nature and the absolutely religious in nature and the absolutely religious in nature and the Aztecs were of the opinion that uh that

Aztecs were of the opinion that uh that Aztecs were of the opinion that uh that the war god demanded the war god demanded the war god demanded people were captured and sacrificed and people were captured and sacrificed and people were captured and sacrificed and it had to be valuable people there was a it had to be valuable people there was a it had to be valuable people there was a lot of uh before they made that big lot of uh before they made that big lot of uh before they made that big standing army they had just ritual standing army they had just ritual standing army they had just ritual battles that they would have and they' battles that they would have and they' battles that they would have and they' take take take captives uh in fact all around meso captives uh in fact all around meso captives uh in fact all around meso America they wanted captives so that America they wanted captives so that America they wanted captives so that they could bring them back and sacrifice they could bring them back and sacrifice they could bring them back and sacrifice them for the them for the them for the gods and the Aztecs deciding to gods and the Aztecs deciding to gods and the Aztecs deciding to specifically follow the war god did this specifically follow the war god did this specifically follow the war god did this more than than anybody they did it so more than than anybody they did it so more than than anybody they did it so much and so successfully that they much and so successfully that they much and so successfully that they didn't have any ene enemies nearby so didn't have any ene enemies nearby so didn't have any ene enemies nearby so they decided this one poor sucker group they decided this one poor sucker group they decided this one poor sucker group uh not that far away called the Tash uh not that far away called the Tash uh not that far away called the Tash Collins that they were never going to uh Collins that they were never going to uh Collins that they were never going to uh make peace with them so that they could make peace with them so that they could make peace with them so that they could go close by every year and just have a go close by every year and just have a go close by every year and just have a little symbolic war with the Tash little symbolic war with the Tash little symbolic war with the Tash Collins and haul them back for a Collins and haul them back for a Collins and haul them back for a sacrifice Cortez met those guys and he sacrifice Cortez met those guys and he sacrifice Cortez met those guys and he was like here are people who hate their was like here are people who hate their was like here are people who hate their guts I'll just use these guys so you guts I'll just use these guys so you guts I'll just use these guys so you know we say oh Cortez took over the know we say oh Cortez took over the know we say oh Cortez took over the Aztec world it was it was Cortez and Aztec world it was it was Cortez and Aztec world it was it was Cortez and 20,000 super pissed off Tes Collins and 20,000 super pissed off Tes Collins and 20,000 super pissed off Tes Collins and they actually sacrifice what so they they actually sacrifice what so they they actually sacrifice what so they would be kind of these ritual battles or would be kind of these ritual battles or would be kind of these ritual battles or is it chopping off people's heads and uh is it chopping off people's heads and uh is it chopping off people's heads and uh like is there is there some interesting like is there is there some interesting like is there is there some interesting rituals around the sacrifice it's mostly rituals around the sacrifice it's mostly rituals around the sacrifice it's mostly heart extraction sometimes heads but heart extraction sometimes heads but heart extraction sometimes heads but they bring them up on top of the Temple

they bring them up on top of the Temple they bring them up on top of the Temple so everybody can see it and they had a so everybody can see it and they had a so everybody can see it and they had a specific Stone where they would bend specific Stone where they would bend specific Stone where they would bend them over so their rib cage would come them over so their rib cage would come them over so their rib cage would come out and they they'd use uh like a thick out and they they'd use uh like a thick out and they they'd use uh like a thick obsidian knife and they had a really obsidian knife and they had a really obsidian knife and they had a really just uh like tried andrue way to do it just uh like tried andrue way to do it just uh like tried andrue way to do it they'd stab it in in a certain place they'd stab it in in a certain place they'd stab it in in a certain place close and then they' push down on the close and then they' push down on the close and then they' push down on the sternum as they ripped up on the rib sternum as they ripped up on the rib sternum as they ripped up on the rib cage and they just so they just make a cage and they just so they just make a cage and they just so they just make a place where they could just rip it right place where they could just rip it right place where they could just rip it right out with their hand yeah with their hand out with their hand yeah with their hand out with their hand yeah with their hand but they were really just surgical about but they were really just surgical about but they were really just surgical about it they'd use a thick obsidian knife it they'd use a thick obsidian knife it they'd use a thick obsidian knife where they could just break the ribs where they could just break the ribs where they could just break the ribs right along the sternum and then push right along the sternum and then push right along the sternum and then push the sternum down Pull up and just while the sternum down Pull up and just while the sternum down Pull up and just while the person was alive yep while the the person was alive yep while the the person was alive yep while the person was alive and the Aztecs had this person was alive and the Aztecs had this person was alive and the Aztecs had this idea like there was a there was a idea like there was a there was a idea like there was a there was a horrible drought that went on that horrible drought that went on that horrible drought that went on that almost ruined the entire Valley and they almost ruined the entire Valley and they almost ruined the entire Valley and they came to this conclusion that it's came to this conclusion that it's came to this conclusion that it's because we haven't been killing enough because we haven't been killing enough because we haven't been killing enough people right we've got to bump this up people right we've got to bump this up people right we've got to bump this up and then when they did and they decided and then when they did and they decided and then when they did and they decided they they really took it out on The they they really took it out on The they they really took it out on The Clash Collins it rained again so it was Clash Collins it rained again so it was Clash Collins it rained again so it was proof positive that they should just proof positive that they should just proof positive that they should just keep doing keep doing keep doing that and they ate people as well they that and they ate people as well they that and they ate people as well they really did as part of the sacrifice or really did as part of the sacrifice or really did as part of the sacrifice or is this after the sacrifice then they is this after the sacrifice then they is this after the sacrifice then they would eat them and this was part of the would eat them and this was part of the would eat them and this was part of the drought and the famine thing that drought and the famine thing that drought and the famine thing that started but then it was just kind of the started but then it was just kind of the started but then it was just kind of the thing to do when uh when Cortez got thing to do when uh when Cortez got thing to do when uh when Cortez got there they were still having there they were still having there they were still having certain special feasts that involved

certain special feasts that involved certain special feasts that involved humans and and it really upset the humans and and it really upset the humans and and it really upset the Spanish that they would be like uh Spanish that they would be like uh Spanish that they would be like uh tricked into eating human like hey you tricked into eating human like hey you tricked into eating human like hey you likeing dinner that was a human so the likeing dinner that was a human so the likeing dinner that was a human so the idea was it actually idea was it actually idea was it actually uh having having a taste for human flesh uh having having a taste for human flesh uh having having a taste for human flesh or is it just you know these kinds or is it just you know these kinds or is it just you know these kinds of ideas of like if you eat a person's of ideas of like if you eat a person's of ideas of like if you eat a person's heart that you can get their spirit and heart that you can get their spirit and heart that you can get their spirit and their strengthen in the case of the their strengthen in the case of the their strengthen in the case of the Aztecs it seemed like they just liked it Aztecs it seemed like they just liked it Aztecs it seemed like they just liked it this guy sahagun who was a very this guy sahagun who was a very this guy sahagun who was a very responsible uh chronicler that was responsible uh chronicler that was responsible uh chronicler that was pretty specific that like uh there was a pretty specific that like uh there was a pretty specific that like uh there was a distribution thing yeah like the uh the distribution thing yeah like the uh the distribution thing yeah like the uh the the elites got butts the butts were the the elites got butts the butts were the the elites got butts the butts were the best part so the the butt cheeks those best part so the the butt cheeks those best part so the the butt cheeks those are the best parts to eat and then like are the best parts to eat and then like are the best parts to eat and then like it went down the chain until some people it went down the chain until some people it went down the chain until some people just got like fingers and toes literally just got like fingers and toes literally just got like fingers and toes literally bought taste for the ASC yeah boy all bought taste for the ASC yeah boy all bought taste for the ASC yeah boy all right they really they really did they right they really they really did they right they really they really did they really did in fact that's what caused really did in fact that's what caused really did in fact that's what caused the uh have you heard of the no T day the uh have you heard of the no T day the uh have you heard of the no T day the sad night the night that the Aztecs the sad night the night that the Aztecs the sad night the night that the Aztecs really go nuts on the Spanish and kick really go nuts on the Spanish and kick really go nuts on the Spanish and kick them out it's all triggered by this this them out it's all triggered by this this them out it's all triggered by this this one guy um Pedro de Alvarado who's left one guy um Pedro de Alvarado who's left one guy um Pedro de Alvarado who's left in charge by Cortez as Cortez goes to in charge by Cortez as Cortez goes to in charge by Cortez as Cortez goes to the coast and tries to uh talk to the the coast and tries to uh talk to the the coast and tries to uh talk to the new Force talk him into being for him new Force talk him into being for him new Force talk him into being for him which he does but Pedro Alvarado's left which he does but Pedro Alvarado's left which he does but Pedro Alvarado's left back in town in charge and they're doing back in town in charge and they're doing back in town in charge and they're doing another one of these huge Aztec buffets

another one of these huge Aztec buffets another one of these huge Aztec buffets and uh parties to honor them and it and uh parties to honor them and it and uh parties to honor them and it happens the guy says you know hey do you happens the guy says you know hey do you happens the guy says you know hey do you like dinner like oh yeah it's a nice like dinner like oh yeah it's a nice like dinner like oh yeah it's a nice dinner well it's humans you're eating dinner well it's humans you're eating dinner well it's humans you're eating humans see I told you they were good and humans see I told you they were good and humans see I told you they were good and Alvarado just freaks out and he has the Alvarado just freaks out and he has the Alvarado just freaks out and he has the the guards close the doors and he the guards close the doors and he the guards close the doors and he murders everyone in the in the party murders everyone in the in the party murders everyone in the in the party women children nobody has weapons he women children nobody has weapons he women children nobody has weapons he just murders everyone and that's what just murders everyone and that's what just murders everyone and that's what spazzes the the Aztecs out to eventually spazzes the the Aztecs out to eventually spazzes the the Aztecs out to eventually murder monuma who was their captive and murder monuma who was their captive and murder monuma who was their captive and then try to murder all of them and it then try to murder all of them and it then try to murder all of them and it was all it was all Pedro Alvarado's was all it was all Pedro Alvarado's was all it was all Pedro Alvarado's fault for freaking out about eating fault for freaking out about eating fault for freaking out about eating humans just a little practical joke yeah humans just a little practical joke yeah humans just a little practical joke yeah it was just they thought it was funny he it was just they thought it was funny he it was just they thought it was funny he did not that's fascinating I didn't did not that's fascinating I didn't did not that's fascinating I didn't realize so I kind of assume that some realize so I kind of assume that some realize so I kind of assume that some level of cannibalism would have to do level of cannibalism would have to do level of cannibalism would have to do with you know eating the heart to uh to with you know eating the heart to uh to with you know eating the heart to uh to gain the spirit of the person or gain the spirit of the person or gain the spirit of the person or something like this but and and certain something like this but and and certain something like this but and and certain like you know deer hunting rituals like you know deer hunting rituals like you know deer hunting rituals things for sure but the Aztecs no they things for sure but the Aztecs no they things for sure but the Aztecs no they just liked eating humans it was part of just liked eating humans it was part of just liked eating humans it was part of the Fear Factor too I mean they could the Fear Factor too I mean they could the Fear Factor too I mean they could walk into a new town and be like you walk into a new town and be like you walk into a new town and be like you guys could either send us you know a guys could either send us you know a guys could either send us you know a number of kol feathers every month or we number of kol feathers every month or we number of kol feathers every month or we could eat you so that's psychological could eat you so that's psychological could eat you so that's psychological warfare and actual Warfare it worked and warfare and actual Warfare it worked and warfare and actual Warfare it worked and that's how they spread quickly MH and that's how they spread quickly MH and that's how they spread quickly MH and they were just about to take over the they were just about to take over the they were just about to take over the Maya when the Spanish came and messed Maya when the Spanish came and messed Maya when the Spanish came and messed everything up they they were they had everything up they they were they had everything up they they were they had the Maya surrounded and they were about the Maya surrounded and they were about the Maya surrounded and they were about to take over the whole Yucatan so you

to take over the whole Yucatan so you to take over the whole Yucatan so you think without the Spanish there would be think without the Spanish there would be think without the Spanish there would be this Aztec empire that would last for a this Aztec empire that would last for a this Aztec empire that would last for a very long time well I think there would very long time well I think there would very long time well I think there would have been an Aztec empire I think they have been an Aztec empire I think they have been an Aztec empire I think they would have finished dominating everybody would have finished dominating everybody would have finished dominating everybody but they did it through hate and but they did it through hate and but they did it through hate and everybody hated the Aztecs did they so everybody hated the Aztecs did they so everybody hated the Aztecs did they so it wouldn't have lasted forever they did it wouldn't have lasted forever they did it wouldn't have lasted forever they did not they were not ruling justly they not they were not ruling justly they not they were not ruling justly they were ruling by force and that that can were ruling by force and that that can were ruling by force and that that can only go on so long before Revolution only go on so long before Revolution only go on so long before Revolution happens the in Empire I think that would happens the in Empire I think that would happens the in Empire I think that would have gone on forever cuz they were have gone on forever cuz they were have gone on forever cuz they were really Community oriented once the Inca really Community oriented once the Inca really Community oriented once the Inca took over like no one in the Inca Empire took over like no one in the Inca Empire took over like no one in the Inca Empire starved they built architecture everyone starved they built architecture everyone starved they built architecture everyone was safe it was it was a society that was safe it was it was a society that was safe it was it was a society that could have lasted a long time what was could have lasted a long time what was could have lasted a long time what was the origin of the Inca the origin of the Inca the origin of the Inca Empire well it was Bloody at first like Empire well it was Bloody at first like Empire well it was Bloody at first like most of them are but once uh on once most of them are but once uh on once most of them are but once uh on once they started taking over that what they they started taking over that what they they started taking over that what they did is they empire built they everybody did is they empire built they everybody did is they empire built they everybody else had just raided their neighbors to else had just raided their neighbors to else had just raided their neighbors to get the resources but everybody they get the resources but everybody they get the resources but everybody they raided they turned them into the Inca raided they turned them into the Inca raided they turned them into the Inca Empire and they created this uh Empire and they created this uh Empire and they created this uh incredible uh meah system where you took incredible uh meah system where you took incredible uh meah system where you took turns working and they created the road turns working and they created the road turns working and they created the road system so they could get groups of system so they could get groups of system so they could get groups of workers back and forth so a a town of workers back and forth so a a town of workers back and forth so a a town of let's say 5,000 let's say 5,000 let's say 5,000 people uh the Inca would roll up with an people uh the Inca would roll up with an people uh the Inca would roll up with an army of 100 200,000 people and say you army of 100 200,000 people and say you army of 100 200,000 people and say you know would you guys like to be part of know would you guys like to be part of know would you guys like to be part of the Empire or would you like us to

the Empire or would you like us to the Empire or would you like us to escort you to the edge of the Empire and escort you to the edge of the Empire and escort you to the edge of the Empire and if your mayor here agrees then he can if your mayor here agrees then he can if your mayor here agrees then he can have a town he can have a house in Cusco have a town he can have a house in Cusco have a town he can have a house in Cusco but then the very next month a big work but then the very next month a big work but then the very next month a big work crew would show up and they'd start crew would show up and they'd start crew would show up and they'd start building agricultural Terraces and building agricultural Terraces and building agricultural Terraces and storage units and every month with the storage units and every month with the storage units and every month with the agricultural uh excess they would have agricultural uh excess they would have agricultural uh excess they would have big parties and everybody would eat so big parties and everybody would eat so big parties and everybody would eat so people lived well in the Inca Empire it people lived well in the Inca Empire it people lived well in the Inca Empire it was a rough beginning but everybody who was a rough beginning but everybody who was a rough beginning but everybody who agreed to be part of it immediately had agreed to be part of it immediately had agreed to be part of it immediately had access to a whole bunch of resources and access to a whole bunch of resources and access to a whole bunch of resources and security they never had so they started security they never had so they started security they never had so they started in uh South America and Peru and Cusco in uh South America and Peru and Cusco in uh South America and Peru and Cusco Cusco was like the center of it Cusco in Cusco was like the center of it Cusco in Cusco was like the center of it Cusco in their language their language their language ketua it means Naval or belly button and ketua it means Naval or belly button and ketua it means Naval or belly button and it's up in the the mountains but there's it's up in the the mountains but there's it's up in the the mountains but there's four quarters that they called their four quarters that they called their four quarters that they called their empire tiwan tinu empire tiwan tinu empire tiwan tinu the land of four quarters and the center the land of four quarters and the center the land of four quarters and the center of those four quarters was Cusco it of those four quarters was Cusco it of those four quarters was Cusco it sprung to life what in like 12 1200 a sprung to life what in like 12 1200 a sprung to life what in like 12 1200 a ADC yeah we we backwards project what it ADC yeah we we backwards project what it ADC yeah we we backwards project what it was but it was was but it was was but it was probably mid 1200s when the first Sapa probably mid 1200s when the first Sapa probably mid 1200s when the first Sapa Inca the first ruler came in but it was Inca the first ruler came in but it was Inca the first ruler came in but it was the I think it's the ninth one is Patak the I think it's the ninth one is Patak the I think it's the ninth one is Patak cout who really started being an Empire cout who really started being an Empire cout who really started being an Empire Builder Builder Builder and part of that I mean what really and part of that I mean what really and part of that I mean what really defined the Empire you said roads they

defined the Empire you said roads they defined the Empire you said roads they build a massive Road Network roads and build a massive Road Network roads and build a massive Road Network roads and uh in the same way that the the Roman uh in the same way that the the Roman uh in the same way that the the Roman strategy of building roads and strategy of building roads and strategy of building roads and infrastructure and then every place they infrastructure and then every place they infrastructure and then every place they took over they'd create certain key took over they'd create certain key took over they'd create certain key pieces of Roman architecture that kind pieces of Roman architecture that kind pieces of Roman architecture that kind of made that City Roman and they'd of made that City Roman and they'd of made that City Roman and they'd rename it rename it rename it something the Inca did the same thing something the Inca did the same thing something the Inca did the same thing they had certain certain they had certain certain they had certain certain signature Inca architecture that they signature Inca architecture that they signature Inca architecture that they would build in as the administrative would build in as the administrative would build in as the administrative part they'd send uh they'd send the kipu part they'd send uh they'd send the kipu part they'd send uh they'd send the kipu kayak the the the guys who would weave kayak the the the guys who would weave kayak the the the guys who would weave the or not the the or not the the or not the kipus asant and they they would go kipus asant and they they would go kipus asant and they they would go through and say what everybody did okay through and say what everybody did okay through and say what everybody did okay you know you're a good farmer you're you know you're a good farmer you're you know you're a good farmer you're going to farm you are a good Weaver going to farm you are a good Weaver going to farm you are a good Weaver you're going to weave all the men here you're going to weave all the men here you're going to weave all the men here are going to take a turn at being part are going to take a turn at being part are going to take a turn at being part of the army and and they and they sent of the army and and they and they sent of the army and and they and they sent independent K kayaks to that every independent K kayaks to that every independent K kayaks to that every Community had like five or six that were Community had like five or six that were Community had like five or six that were not allowed to work with each other and not allowed to work with each other and not allowed to work with each other and they all had to independently send their they all had to independently send their they all had to independently send their Kus back to Cusco and if there were Kus back to Cusco and if there were Kus back to Cusco and if there were accounting discrepancies they were accounting discrepancies they were accounting discrepancies they were called to Cusco to figure out who was called to Cusco to figure out who was called to Cusco to figure out who was lying about what so there's like a super lying about what so there's like a super lying about what so there's like a super sophisticated recordkeeping system yeah sophisticated recordkeeping system yeah sophisticated recordkeeping system yeah and that was the kipo and the Spanish and that was the kipo and the Spanish and that was the kipo and the Spanish recorded what they could and then burned recorded what they could and then burned recorded what they could and then burned them all but that's an interesting them all but that's an interesting them all but that's an interesting development for for an Empire CU that development for for an Empire CU that development for for an Empire CU that allows you to really expand and uh have allows you to really expand and uh have allows you to really expand and uh have some kind of management some some level

some kind of management some some level some kind of management some some level of control yeah they couldn't at the end of control yeah they couldn't at the end of control yeah they couldn't at the end they were at least 10 million people and they were at least 10 million people and they were at least 10 million people and there was just no way to do that without there was just no way to do that without there was just no way to do that without some sort of sophisticated recordkeeping some sort of sophisticated recordkeeping some sort of sophisticated recordkeeping system if the Inca had to face Aztec who system if the Inca had to face Aztec who system if the Inca had to face Aztec who wins Inca Inca I mean the Aztecs were wins Inca Inca I mean the Aztecs were wins Inca Inca I mean the Aztecs were psychotic but the Ina had just reserves psychotic but the Ina had just reserves psychotic but the Ina had just reserves for Miles right and they had that for Miles right and they had that for Miles right and they had that essential hearts in mind essential hearts in mind essential hearts in mind right and there was only one thing that right and there was only one thing that right and there was only one thing that everybody got pissed off about when they everybody got pissed off about when they everybody got pissed off about when they joined the Inca empire for some joined the Inca empire for some joined the Inca empire for some reason everything was owned communally reason everything was owned communally reason everything was owned communally except the llamas the llamas were the except the llamas the llamas were the except the llamas the llamas were the Kings and so that was one thing that Kings and so that was one thing that Kings and so that was one thing that like some of them would stay in town like some of them would stay in town like some of them would stay in town just to be work llamas but you know you just to be work llamas but you know you just to be work llamas but you know you don't own your llama anymore and and don't own your llama anymore and and don't own your llama anymore and and people are really attached to their people are really attached to their people are really attached to their llamas to this day yeah they are like llamas to this day yeah they are like llamas to this day yeah they are like family members so it' be like everybody family members so it' be like everybody family members so it' be like everybody walked in and said everybody's family walked in and said everybody's family walked in and said everybody's family dog is now mine it like really upset dog is now mine it like really upset dog is now mine it like really upset people on an emotional level well the I people on an emotional level well the I people on an emotional level well the I mean so mean so mean so llama's got domesticated at some point llama's got domesticated at some point llama's got domesticated at some point probably ear I me what I don't even know probably ear I me what I don't even know probably ear I me what I don't even know when but early on it's uh we we have when but early on it's uh we we have when but early on it's uh we we have rock art that progresses to make it see rock art that progresses to make it see rock art that progresses to make it see like a progression from people depicted like a progression from people depicted like a progression from people depicted hunting them to people depicted standing hunting them to people depicted standing hunting them to people depicted standing next to pregnant ones yeah so it was next to pregnant ones yeah so it was next to pregnant ones yeah so it was still in that Archaic Period at least still in that Archaic Period at least still in that Archaic Period at least that they became friends uh yeah but if that they became friends uh yeah but if that they became friends uh yeah but if you roll in and you own them that's uh you roll in and you own them that's uh you roll in and you own them that's uh yeah that pissed everybody off the for

yeah that pissed everybody off the for yeah that pissed everybody off the for some reason the Inca owned everybody's some reason the Inca owned everybody's some reason the Inca owned everybody's llama instantly and he would take llama instantly and he would take llama instantly and he would take anything he wanted a lot of them would anything he wanted a lot of them would anything he wanted a lot of them would just get carted away that day just sent just get carted away that day just sent just get carted away that day just sent to Cusco they'd also take their mummies to Cusco they'd also take their mummies to Cusco they'd also take their mummies that was a weird thing everybody Mourns that was a weird thing everybody Mourns that was a weird thing everybody Mourns they're dead but the Inca just like they're dead but the Inca just like they're dead but the Inca just like ceased to accept it they would just the ceased to accept it they would just the ceased to accept it they would just the mummies were still there okay he's dead mummies were still there okay he's dead mummies were still there okay he's dead but look he still got clothes he's at but look he still got clothes he's at but look he still got clothes he's at the party let's put a beer in front of the party let's put a beer in front of the party let's put a beer in front of him they just like they just kept people him they just like they just kept people him they just like they just kept people as mummies and so the ancestral mummies as mummies and so the ancestral mummies as mummies and so the ancestral mummies of every town part of the being absorbed of every town part of the being absorbed of every town part of the being absorbed into the the empire was okay your most into the the empire was okay your most into the the empire was okay your most important mummies are now going to have important mummies are now going to have important mummies are now going to have their own beautiful t house in Cusco but their own beautiful t house in Cusco but their own beautiful t house in Cusco but they would physically bring those they would physically bring those they would physically bring those mummies to Cusco to make now Cusco the mummies to Cusco to make now Cusco the mummies to Cusco to make now Cusco the spiritual heart of their spiritual heart of their spiritual heart of their their belief system I mean I can see how their belief system I mean I can see how their belief system I mean I can see how that would piss people off but it's also that would piss people off but it's also that would piss people off but it's also a pretty powerful way to say like the a pretty powerful way to say like the a pretty powerful way to say like the ancestors that you idolize that you ancestors that you idolize that you ancestors that you idolize that you respect are now in the capital they've respect are now in the capital they've respect are now in the capital they've been elevated we didn't steal them we been elevated we didn't steal them we been elevated we didn't steal them we have given them a new place of honor and have given them a new place of honor and have given them a new place of honor and you're welcome to come visit them all you're welcome to come visit them all you're welcome to come visit them all the time and they did they have these the time and they did they have these the time and they did they have these festivals where everyone from all festivals where everyone from all festivals where everyone from all corners of the Ina world would come to corners of the Ina world would come to corners of the Ina world would come to Cusco and uh which of the civilizations Cusco and uh which of the civilizations Cusco and uh which of the civilizations mummified people is it is it the Incas mummified people is it is it the Incas mummified people is it is it the Incas for sure mummified people and even did for sure mummified people and even did for sure mummified people and even did some of that kind of uh like Egyptian

some of that kind of uh like Egyptian some of that kind of uh like Egyptian esque taking out of organs and preparing esque taking out of organs and preparing esque taking out of organs and preparing the body they put Like Straw inside the the body they put Like Straw inside the the body they put Like Straw inside the cavity and mummify them but the Maya cavity and mummify them but the Maya cavity and mummify them but the Maya didn't do it at all the Maya in fact on didn't do it at all the Maya in fact on didn't do it at all the Maya in fact on purpose would flood tombs with water so purpose would flood tombs with water so purpose would flood tombs with water so that the skin would float off the SK that the skin would float off the SK that the skin would float off the SK skeletons faster and then they get back skeletons faster and then they get back skeletons faster and then they get back in there it was jungly so I think the in there it was jungly so I think the in there it was jungly so I think the bugs probably had part of it too MH but bugs probably had part of it too MH but bugs probably had part of it too MH but then they would get back in there to get then they would get back in there to get then they would get back in there to get the bones they'd open it back up and the bones they'd open it back up and the bones they'd open it back up and take the bones out and paint them with take the bones out and paint them with take the bones out and paint them with red Cinnabar the one that I was in in red Cinnabar the one that I was in in red Cinnabar the one that I was in in copon we had evidence that they had gone copon we had evidence that they had gone copon we had evidence that they had gone in there four different times and the in there four different times and the in there four different times and the last couple times they only took the last couple times they only took the last couple times they only took the skull out and repainted it and then put skull out and repainted it and then put skull out and repainted it and then put it back in articulated in the on the it back in articulated in the on the it back in articulated in the on the skeleton but they they didn't mummify skeleton but they they didn't mummify skeleton but they they didn't mummify they on purpose would like grossly float they on purpose would like grossly float they on purpose would like grossly float the bodies so so they could get the skin the bodies so so they could get the skin the bodies so so they could get the skin off faster and get to the bones but off faster and get to the bones but off faster and get to the bones but would they keep the bones yeah they'd would they keep the bones yeah they'd would they keep the bones yeah they'd keep the bones and they'd pull the bones keep the bones and they'd pull the bones keep the bones and they'd pull the bones out occasionally and do rituals to them out occasionally and do rituals to them out occasionally and do rituals to them or commune with them and then put them or commune with them and then put them or commune with them and then put them back in so there there's still a deep back in so there there's still a deep back in so there there's still a deep connection to the ancestors to the connection to the ancestors to the connection to the ancestors to the physical manifestation of the ancestors physical manifestation of the ancestors physical manifestation of the ancestors then y whether mummified or bone and and then y whether mummified or bone and and then y whether mummified or bone and and to this day like if if you do an to this day like if if you do an to this day like if if you do an excavation here in the United States excavation here in the United States excavation here in the United States Native American people don't like it Native American people don't like it Native American people don't like it they don't like their graves which is they don't like their graves which is they don't like their graves which is fine enough I wouldn't want somebody fine enough I wouldn't want somebody fine enough I wouldn't want somebody digging up my grandma either but the

digging up my grandma either but the digging up my grandma either but the Maya they love it they love it every Maya they love it they love it every Maya they love it they love it every Maya person if we find uh grave they're Maya person if we find uh grave they're Maya person if we find uh grave they're like yeah look at that bones cool can I like yeah look at that bones cool can I like yeah look at that bones cool can I touch yeah great they they're not touch yeah great they they're not touch yeah great they they're not spooked about it at all they think it's spooked about it at all they think it's spooked about it at all they think it's exciting I one time has uh helped out a exciting I one time has uh helped out a exciting I one time has uh helped out a a physical Anthropologist in town and in a physical Anthropologist in town and in a physical Anthropologist in town and in copon to get a osteology collection copon to get a osteology collection copon to get a osteology collection together of various animals so if we got together of various animals so if we got together of various animals so if we got bones from a uh an excavation we could bones from a uh an excavation we could bones from a uh an excavation we could see what kind of animal it was based on see what kind of animal it was based on see what kind of animal it was based on the the the collection and this family said uh well collection and this family said uh well collection and this family said uh well we our family dog died last year and we our family dog died last year and we our family dog died last year and buried him in the backyard you could go buried him in the backyard you could go buried him in the backyard you could go dig him up and so we were like okay yeah dig him up and so we were like okay yeah dig him up and so we were like okay yeah I mean we do need a dog we'll go take up I mean we do need a dog we'll go take up I mean we do need a dog we'll go take up your dog and and they were like but the your dog and and they were like but the your dog and and they were like but the kids really want to help you so their kids really want to help you so their kids really want to help you so their kids came came out and this was like kids came came out and this was like kids came came out and this was like their puppy and it died you know less their puppy and it died you know less their puppy and it died you know less than a year ago when we got to it like than a year ago when we got to it like than a year ago when we got to it like one of them just like grabbed up a bone one of them just like grabbed up a bone one of them just like grabbed up a bone and he was like wasy CTO like little and he was like wasy CTO like little and he was like wasy CTO like little bitty bones yay like what a weird bitty bones yay like what a weird bitty bones yay like what a weird attitude that's your dead dog there but attitude that's your dead dog there but attitude that's your dead dog there but they just they have a different they just they have a different they just they have a different relationship with the dead in some sense relationship with the dead in some sense relationship with the dead in some sense that's a beautiful attitude right I yeah that's a beautiful attitude right I yeah that's a beautiful attitude right I yeah why um pretend like we're not mortal and why um pretend like we're not mortal and why um pretend like we're not mortal and there's not this is just the process of there's not this is just the process of there's not this is just the process of it it's kind of as you say it now kind it it's kind of as you say it now kind it it's kind of as you say it now kind of would be cool that's what day of the of would be cool that's what day of the of would be cool that's what day of the dead is all about and I love Day of the dead is all about and I love Day of the dead is all about and I love Day of the Dead uh you know Halloween's This creepy Dead uh you know Halloween's This creepy Dead uh you know Halloween's This creepy thing where they're all monsters but Day thing where they're all monsters but Day thing where they're all monsters but Day of the Dead is this beautiful time where

of the Dead is this beautiful time where of the Dead is this beautiful time where we remember our ancestors I convinced my we remember our ancestors I convinced my we remember our ancestors I convinced my kids after the movie Coco came out now kids after the movie Coco came out now kids after the movie Coco came out now we have an altar with all of our great we have an altar with all of our great we have an altar with all of our great grandparents on the Altar and we talk grandparents on the Altar and we talk grandparents on the Altar and we talk about who they were and how they lived about who they were and how they lived about who they were and how they lived and we put things on the altar that and we put things on the altar that and we put things on the altar that mattered in their life and we remember mattered in their life and we remember mattered in their life and we remember them on that day and it turned some that them on that day and it turned some that them on that day and it turned some that was a weird eat too much candy and wear was a weird eat too much candy and wear was a weird eat too much candy and wear a monster mask thing into something a monster mask thing into something a monster mask thing into something beautiful where we discuss where we came beautiful where we discuss where we came beautiful where we discuss where we came from I have to ask about the giant from I have to ask about the giant from I have to ask about the giant stones that Inca has been able to stones that Inca has been able to stones that Inca has been able to somehow move and fit together perfectly somehow move and fit together perfectly somehow move and fit together perfectly do do you understand is it understood do do you understand is it understood do do you understand is it understood how they were able to do that so how they were able to do that so how they were able to do that so well no um you know the moving of it I think no um you know the moving of it I think that we have reasonable theories you that we have reasonable theories you that we have reasonable theories you know there there are ways to Pivot large know there there are ways to Pivot large know there there are ways to Pivot large weights uh there's a there's a great guy weights uh there's a there's a great guy weights uh there's a there's a great guy uh named w-e Wallington a retired uh named w-e Wallington a retired uh named w-e Wallington a retired contractor here in the US who built contractor here in the US who built contractor here in the US who built Stonehenge in his backyard in Minnesota Stonehenge in his backyard in Minnesota Stonehenge in his backyard in Minnesota singlehandedly showing how you can move singlehandedly showing how you can move singlehandedly showing how you can move Big Stone so I you know I think Wally's Big Stone so I you know I think Wally's Big Stone so I you know I think Wally's already figured out how to move them already figured out how to move them already figured out how to move them it's the it's the perfectly fit so it's the it's the perfectly fit so it's the it's the perfectly fit so carefully fit together that you couldn't carefully fit together that you couldn't carefully fit together that you couldn't even put a dime in between the stones even put a dime in between the stones even put a dime in between the stones that's the one that I think still has that's the one that I think still has that's the one that I think still has people baffled the the common people baffled the the common people baffled the the common archaeological wisdom that you'd find

archaeological wisdom that you'd find archaeological wisdom that you'd find out of a textbook is that they just kept out of a textbook is that they just kept out of a textbook is that they just kept pecking away at it with hammerstones and pecking away at it with hammerstones and pecking away at it with hammerstones and setting them and resetting them until setting them and resetting them until setting them and resetting them until they were perfect which has to be they were perfect which has to be they were perfect which has to be that is there is no way that that is there is no way that that is there is no way that they just were that meticulous I mean they just were that meticulous I mean they just were that meticulous I mean everybody's got a Hammerstone I I everybody's got a Hammerstone I I everybody's got a Hammerstone I I personally think it's acids I think they personally think it's acids I think they personally think it's acids I think they melted them um together and there are melted them um together and there are melted them um together and there are weird places when you really look at weird places when you really look at weird places when you really look at closely to these Stones which I've done closely to these Stones which I've done closely to these Stones which I've done a number of times I'm going back next a number of times I'm going back next a number of times I'm going back next month to uh Machi Picchu and especially month to uh Machi Picchu and especially month to uh Machi Picchu and especially Cusco I walk around in the alleys where Cusco I walk around in the alleys where Cusco I walk around in the alleys where these 500 you know to a thousand year these 500 you know to a thousand year these 500 you know to a thousand year old walls are still there and uh you see old walls are still there and uh you see old walls are still there and uh you see I see things like the the crystals in I see things like the the crystals in I see things like the the crystals in the the the andesite are uh almost stitched together andesite are uh almost stitched together andesite are uh almost stitched together along the seams like there's the the along the seams like there's the the along the seams like there's the the andesite around it is melted and the andesite around it is melted and the andesite around it is melted and the crystals haven't and there are other crystals haven't and there are other crystals haven't and there are other places where there are weird wipes on places where there are weird wipes on places where there are weird wipes on the wall like it's just melted like the wall like it's just melted like the wall like it's just melted like somebody like took a rag and wiped it somebody like took a rag and wiped it somebody like took a rag and wiped it while it was soft lots of talk about while it was soft lots of talk about while it was soft lots of talk about soft Stones turning hard to I I haven't soft Stones turning hard to I I haven't soft Stones turning hard to I I haven't been able to prove it this is one of been able to prove it this is one of been able to prove it this is one of these you know end of my archaeological these you know end of my archaeological these you know end of my archaeological career chapters I'm either going to career chapters I'm either going to career chapters I'm either going to prove myself wrong or prove it but I prove myself wrong or prove it but I prove myself wrong or prove it but I think they used acids my dad's a chemist

think they used acids my dad's a chemist think they used acids my dad's a chemist and he told me a long time ago that and he told me a long time ago that and he told me a long time ago that there's no way there's no naturally there's no way there's no naturally there's no way there's no naturally occurring acids but my current theory occurring acids but my current theory occurring acids but my current theory actually I got the idea initially from actually I got the idea initially from actually I got the idea initially from the show Breaking Bad I don't know if the show Breaking Bad I don't know if the show Breaking Bad I don't know if you ever saw that show but there's a you ever saw that show but there's a you ever saw that show but there's a point in which they're trying to point in which they're trying to point in which they're trying to dissolve a body yeah and they're using dissolve a body yeah and they're using dissolve a body yeah and they're using Hydrochloric acid and it goes right Hydrochloric acid and it goes right Hydrochloric acid and it goes right through the ceiling that hydrofluoric through the ceiling that hydrofluoric through the ceiling that hydrofluoric acid is so fascinating it you know it it acid is so fascinating it you know it it acid is so fascinating it you know it it won't go through plastic and you can won't go through plastic and you can won't go through plastic and you can also bring it in iner parts and then also bring it in iner parts and then also bring it in iner parts and then combine it um the the Ina made tons of combine it um the the Ina made tons of combine it um the the Ina made tons of jewelry out of fluorite fluorite is big jewelry out of fluorite fluorite is big jewelry out of fluorite fluorite is big in the Andes and they also mined a lot in the Andes and they also mined a lot in the Andes and they also mined a lot of things for gold and silver and the by of things for gold and silver and the by of things for gold and silver and the by product of that mining is sulfuric acid product of that mining is sulfuric acid product of that mining is sulfuric acid you put sulfuric acid and fluorite you put sulfuric acid and fluorite you put sulfuric acid and fluorite together and it's hydrofluoric acid and together and it's hydrofluoric acid and together and it's hydrofluoric acid and that will burn through andesite or that will burn through andesite or that will burn through andesite or anything and if you learned how to do it anything and if you learned how to do it anything and if you learned how to do it you know you know you know judiciously and you didn't care whether judiciously and you didn't care whether judiciously and you didn't care whether you know servants lost an arm or two you know servants lost an arm or two you know servants lost an arm or two then you could actually use them to fuse then you could actually use them to fuse then you could actually use them to fuse these together and I I think they're these together and I I think they're these together and I I think they're fused together I I asked the city of fused together I I asked the city of fused together I I asked the city of Cusco if I could take some core samples Cusco if I could take some core samples Cusco if I could take some core samples and they said go away Gringo don't touch and they said go away Gringo don't touch and they said go away Gringo don't touch our walls so this actually this next our walls so this actually this next our walls so this actually this next this next time I'm going to go try to this next time I'm going to go try to this next time I'm going to go try to talk to the more Keta authorities in a

talk to the more Keta authorities in a talk to the more Keta authorities in a place called oan Tio and maybe I can place called oan Tio and maybe I can place called oan Tio and maybe I can convince them but right now they just convince them but right now they just convince them but right now they just think I'm a I'm a weird ass Gringo who think I'm a I'm a weird ass Gringo who think I'm a I'm a weird ass Gringo who wants to put holes in their wants to put holes in their wants to put holes in their walls it's a fascinating walls it's a fascinating walls it's a fascinating Theory and so the Theory and so the Theory and so the how could you get to the the bottom of how could you get to the the bottom of how could you get to the the bottom of that so getting core samples to see if that so getting core samples to see if that so getting core samples to see if there's some kind of Trace chemists I'm there's some kind of Trace chemists I'm there's some kind of Trace chemists I'm working with say that if there was working with say that if there was working with say that if there was hydrofluoric acid in between these that hydrofluoric acid in between these that hydrofluoric acid in between these that a core sample right along a seam they a core sample right along a seam they a core sample right along a seam they they can separate out the elements in they can separate out the elements in they can separate out the elements in there and detect whether there was there and detect whether there was there and detect whether there was actually elements of hydrofluoric acid I actually elements of hydrofluoric acid I actually elements of hydrofluoric acid I wanted to go straight to burning rocks wanted to go straight to burning rocks wanted to go straight to burning rocks but they were like no I mean we already but they were like no I mean we already but they were like no I mean we already know that's true I mean yeah we can burn know that's true I mean yeah we can burn know that's true I mean yeah we can burn some rocks but it would happen that's some rocks but it would happen that's some rocks but it would happen that's just chemistry we got to we got to prove just chemistry we got to we got to prove just chemistry we got to we got to prove that it would happen in the walls so go that it would happen in the walls so go that it would happen in the walls so go get us samples and that was before covid get us samples and that was before covid get us samples and that was before covid and all sorts of you know you know how and all sorts of you know you know how and all sorts of you know you know how it is you probably are the same guy it is you probably are the same guy it is you probably are the same guy where you've got a a thousand ideas and where you've got a a thousand ideas and where you've got a a thousand ideas and you know the ones that that are fruitful you know the ones that that are fruitful you know the ones that that are fruitful you run with and the other ones you'll you run with and the other ones you'll you run with and the other ones you'll get back to that'll be fascinating if get back to that'll be fascinating if get back to that'll be fascinating if true and I I hope you do show that it's true and I I hope you do show that it's true and I I hope you do show that it's true or either one yeah I'll I'll try to true or either one yeah I'll I'll try to true or either one yeah I'll I'll try to disprove it disprove it yeah I wonder if disprove it disprove it yeah I wonder if disprove it disprove it yeah I wonder if we discount how we discount how we discount how much amazing stuff a collection of much amazing stuff a collection of much amazing stuff a collection of humans can do because it just feels like humans can do because it just feels like humans can do because it just feels like if a large number of humans are e are if a large number of humans are e are if a large number of humans are e are just working a little bit chipping away just working a little bit chipping away just working a little bit chipping away as stuff at scale they can do miraculous

as stuff at scale they can do miraculous as stuff at scale they can do miraculous thing so the question is how can a large thing so the question is how can a large thing so the question is how can a large number of humans be motivated to do a number of humans be motivated to do a number of humans be motivated to do a thing um CU I I just when we think about thing um CU I I just when we think about thing um CU I I just when we think about like stonehengers some very challenging like stonehengers some very challenging like stonehengers some very challenging architectural constru struction we we architectural constru struction we we architectural constru struction we we don't think about a large number of don't think about a large number of don't think about a large number of humans working together well you know humans working together well you know humans working together well you know that large number of humans uh are that large number of humans uh are that large number of humans uh are motivated to work together by a small motivated to work together by a small motivated to work together by a small number of Administrators who are Dynamic number of Administrators who are Dynamic number of Administrators who are Dynamic and convincing in some way or another and convincing in some way or another and convincing in some way or another right one of my favorite quotes is and right one of my favorite quotes is and right one of my favorite quotes is and I'm probably going to misquote it here I'm probably going to misquote it here I'm probably going to misquote it here but I think it's Margaret me who said but I think it's Margaret me who said but I think it's Margaret me who said never underestimate the power of small never underestimate the power of small never underestimate the power of small groups working together and the truth is groups working together and the truth is groups working together and the truth is that those are the the only people that that those are the the only people that that those are the the only people that have ever changed the world that small have ever changed the world that small have ever changed the world that small dedicated groups of people are what dedicated groups of people are what dedicated groups of people are what changed the world yeah and they Inspire changed the world yeah and they Inspire changed the world yeah and they Inspire big groups of people to embrace their big groups of people to embrace their big groups of people to embrace their Vision yeah yeah I think we sometimes Vision yeah yeah I think we sometimes Vision yeah yeah I think we sometimes underestimate how much humans can do uh underestimate how much humans can do uh underestimate how much humans can do uh across time and we are way less capable across time and we are way less capable across time and we are way less capable than we used to be I mean the average than we used to be I mean the average than we used to be I mean the average human had all sorts of skills that at human had all sorts of skills that at human had all sorts of skills that at least I personally do not you know I I least I personally do not you know I I least I personally do not you know I I I'm wearing a shirt but I I can't make a I'm wearing a shirt but I I can't make a I'm wearing a shirt but I I can't make a shirt shirt shirt that's for somebody else to that's for somebody else to that's for somebody else to do you've also lectured do you've also lectured do you've also lectured about uh which I really enjoyed about about uh which I really enjoyed about about uh which I really enjoyed about North America uh and also helped teach North America uh and also helped teach North America uh and also helped teach me that there was a lot more complex

me that there was a lot more complex me that there was a lot more complex societies going on here uh for a long societies going on here uh for a long societies going on here uh for a long period of time so maybe can we start at period of time so maybe can we start at period of time so maybe can we start at the beginning who were the early humans the beginning who were the early humans the beginning who were the early humans in North America well we go through that in North America well we go through that in North America well we go through that paleo Indian and Archaic Period for paleo Indian and Archaic Period for paleo Indian and Archaic Period for thousands of years you know as we thousands of years you know as we thousands of years you know as we started this conversation probably you started this conversation probably you started this conversation probably you know 30,000 years is a conservative now know 30,000 years is a conservative now know 30,000 years is a conservative now humans first enter the humans first enter the humans first enter the Americas but the first cultures we get Americas but the first cultures we get Americas but the first cultures we get here are mound builders around the here are mound builders around the here are mound builders around the Mississippi and to the East and then Mississippi and to the East and then Mississippi and to the East and then also a totally separate group in the also a totally separate group in the also a totally separate group in the what we call the American southwest now what we call the American southwest now what we call the American southwest now the Four Corners who will develop the Four Corners who will develop the Four Corners who will develop into mostly the people we call the peblo into mostly the people we call the peblo into mostly the people we call the peblo people who are still there today like people who are still there today like people who are still there today like zouri and Hopi people so we've got these zouri and Hopi people so we've got these zouri and Hopi people so we've got these two clusters that the very first major two clusters that the very first major two clusters that the very first major community in North America is in the community in North America is in the community in North America is in the most unlikely place it's in Northern most unlikely place it's in Northern most unlikely place it's in Northern Louisiana people think I'm crazy when I Louisiana people think I'm crazy when I Louisiana people think I'm crazy when I say this but there is a pyramid in say this but there is a pyramid in say this but there is a pyramid in Northern Louisiana a big one at a site Northern Louisiana a big one at a site Northern Louisiana a big one at a site called poverty point that is uh 35 100 called poverty point that is uh 35 100 called poverty point that is uh 35 100 years old so it's the same age as the years old so it's the same age as the years old so it's the same age as the pyramids in Egypt and it is a giant pyramids in Egypt and it is a giant pyramids in Egypt and it is a giant thing just poking out of the bayus of thing just poking out of the bayus of thing just poking out of the bayus of Louisiana and uh people don't believe me Louisiana and uh people don't believe me Louisiana and uh people don't believe me when I say it but it's there the mound

when I say it but it's there the mound when I say it but it's there the mound builders what was that Society like in builders what was that Society like in builders what was that Society like in comparison to everything else we've been comparison to everything else we've been comparison to everything else we've been talking about in Mesoamerican they talking about in Mesoamerican they talking about in Mesoamerican they evolved over thousands of years we call evolved over thousands of years we call evolved over thousands of years we call them mound builders this is something I them mound builders this is something I them mound builders this is something I you know object to I think we should you know object to I think we should you know object to I think we should have a better we do the the last uh have a better we do the the last uh have a better we do the the last uh version of them we call the version of them we call the version of them we call the mississippians now but generally mississippians now but generally mississippians now but generally speaking we call all these guys mound speaking we call all these guys mound speaking we call all these guys mound builders but what they built were builders but what they built were builders but what they built were pyramids they look like Mounds now and pyramids they look like Mounds now and pyramids they look like Mounds now and they didn't build them out of stone they didn't build them out of stone they didn't build them out of stone that's you know that's kind of our just that's you know that's kind of our just that's you know that's kind of our just inherent Western bias something that's inherent Western bias something that's inherent Western bias something that's built out of stone is is sophisticated built out of stone is is sophisticated built out of stone is is sophisticated and something that's built out of dirt and something that's built out of dirt and something that's built out of dirt is is is rudimentary but in their full living rudimentary but in their full living rudimentary but in their full living form they did have cores dirt but then form they did have cores dirt but then form they did have cores dirt but then they also had uh kind of clay caps so they also had uh kind of clay caps so they also had uh kind of clay caps so they had Terraces they had whole they had Terraces they had whole they had Terraces they had whole complexes of buildings up on top there complexes of buildings up on top there complexes of buildings up on top there were kings that lived up there there's were kings that lived up there there's were kings that lived up there there's uh the the biggest of the Mississippian uh the the biggest of the Mississippian uh the the biggest of the Mississippian cities is called Cahokia and it's right cities is called Cahokia and it's right cities is called Cahokia and it's right outside of uh St outside of uh St outside of uh St Louis and it was huge it had a Louis and it was huge it had a Louis and it was huge it had a population of 20,000 people and pyramids population of 20,000 people and pyramids population of 20,000 people and pyramids all over the place a huge palisade Wall all over the place a huge palisade Wall all over the place a huge palisade Wall all around it it was absolutely gigantic all around it it was absolutely gigantic all around it it was absolutely gigantic a thriving metropolis and we in America a thriving metropolis and we in America a thriving metropolis and we in America have kind of a collective Amnesia like have kind of a collective Amnesia like have kind of a collective Amnesia like we we never hear about these massive we we never hear about these massive we we never hear about these massive civilizations kokia was the the big civilizations kokia was the the big civilizations kokia was the the big first city but then it spread from the

first city but then it spread from the first city but then it spread from the Mississippi all the way to the Atlantic Mississippi all the way to the Atlantic Mississippi all the way to the Atlantic there were hundreds and hundreds of there were hundreds and hundreds of there were hundreds and hundreds of these big cities that had you know 5 to these big cities that had you know 5 to these big cities that had you know 5 to 10,000 people each 10,000 people each 10,000 people each were they their own thing or was there were they their own thing or was there were they their own thing or was there some kind of thread connecting all of some kind of thread connecting all of some kind of thread connecting all of them they had a unified religion and them they had a unified religion and them they had a unified religion and culture they were again not an Empire so culture they were again not an Empire so culture they were again not an Empire so there were Waring city states there were there were Waring city states there were there were Waring city states there were kind of uh territories that were owned kind of uh territories that were owned kind of uh territories that were owned by big Kings and then the cities around by big Kings and then the cities around by big Kings and then the cities around them were kind of the subsidiary Lords them were kind of the subsidiary Lords them were kind of the subsidiary Lords and kings and then one one Kingdom could and kings and then one one Kingdom could and kings and then one one Kingdom could either Ally with a neighbor or have a either Ally with a neighbor or have a either Ally with a neighbor or have a fight mhm so they were were kind of uh fight mhm so they were were kind of uh fight mhm so they were were kind of uh countries I think for yeah we could countries I think for yeah we could countries I think for yeah we could safely say there were different safely say there were different safely say there were different countries within this Patchwork that was countries within this Patchwork that was countries within this Patchwork that was Eastern United States and you it's so Eastern United States and you it's so Eastern United States and you it's so weird that we don't know this because it weird that we don't know this because it weird that we don't know this because it was clearly documented by the by the was clearly documented by the by the was clearly documented by the by the Spanish it this I'm not talking about Spanish it this I'm not talking about Spanish it this I'm not talking about just archaeology we find them in just archaeology we find them in just archaeology we find them in archaeology now but Hernando doto landed archaeology now but Hernando doto landed archaeology now but Hernando doto landed in Florida and went for three years from in Florida and went for three years from in Florida and went for three years from he went up into the Carolinas and over he went up into the Carolinas and over he went up into the Carolinas and over down into Alabama and Louisiana and he's down into Alabama and Louisiana and he's down into Alabama and Louisiana and he's the first one to see the Mississippi up the first one to see the Mississippi up the first one to see the Mississippi up there but for three years he went there but for three years he went there but for three years he went through city after city after City through city after city after City through city after city after City unfortunately decimating them eating all unfortunately decimating them eating all unfortunately decimating them eating all their corn giving them

their corn giving them their corn giving them diseases but uh I mean the documentation diseases but uh I mean the documentation diseases but uh I mean the documentation clearly there he met collectively clearly there he met collectively clearly there he met collectively millions of people in a very sophistic millions of people in a very sophistic millions of people in a very sophistic ated and uniformed civilization so it ated and uniformed civilization so it ated and uniformed civilization so it was was was disease and uh stealing of resources but disease and uh stealing of resources but disease and uh stealing of resources but was there like explicit murdering going was there like explicit murdering going was there like explicit murdering going on unfortunately yeah he was a murderer on unfortunately yeah he was a murderer on unfortunately yeah he was a murderer and a psycho and a liar he uh he he and a psycho and a liar he uh he he and a psycho and a liar he uh he he snowed them that he was some kind of snowed them that he was some kind of snowed them that he was some kind of deity actually learned a trick from the deity actually learned a trick from the deity actually learned a trick from the Inca who he he was with pizaro in his Inca who he he was with pizaro in his Inca who he he was with pizaro in his first run and got went back to Spain was first run and got went back to Spain was first run and got went back to Spain was rich had a wife a cat rich had a wife a cat rich had a wife a cat then he got bored and he decided to have then he got bored and he decided to have then he got bored and he decided to have a reign of terror on Northern America a reign of terror on Northern America a reign of terror on Northern America for 3 years but he had people uh burned for 3 years but he had people uh burned for 3 years but he had people uh burned at the stake he had his dogs ripped them at the stake he had his dogs ripped them at the stake he had his dogs ripped them apart he was very very brutal he he apart he was very very brutal he he apart he was very very brutal he he ruled that area through fear and had ruled that area through fear and had ruled that area through fear and had absolutely no respect for anybody he absolutely no respect for anybody he absolutely no respect for anybody he made promises and broke them all the made promises and broke them all the made promises and broke them all the time he he was really he was a brutal time he he was really he was a brutal time he he was really he was a brutal man so this whole period when uh man so this whole period when uh man so this whole period when uh Christopher Columbus came how did Christopher Columbus came how did Christopher Columbus came how did that change everything well you know that change everything well you know that change everything well you know there's a there's a great uh there's a there's a great uh there's a there's a great uh anthropological uh body of literature anthropological uh body of literature anthropological uh body of literature it's it's called the Colombian Exchange it's it's called the Colombian Exchange it's it's called the Colombian Exchange based on Columbus but it's you know all

based on Columbus but it's you know all based on Columbus but it's you know all this trade back and forth between the this trade back and forth between the this trade back and forth between the new world and the old world and the the new world and the old world and the the new world and the old world and the the old world got just wonderful stuff all old world got just wonderful stuff all old world got just wonderful stuff all of a sudden their diet didn't suck all of a sudden their diet didn't suck all of a sudden their diet didn't suck all these vegetables came in the the new these vegetables came in the the new these vegetables came in the the new world got uh herd animals it got pigs world got uh herd animals it got pigs world got uh herd animals it got pigs and cows and goats that it didn't have and cows and goats that it didn't have and cows and goats that it didn't have but it also got 13 infectious but it also got 13 infectious but it also got 13 infectious diseases uh Europe had had wave after diseases uh Europe had had wave after diseases uh Europe had had wave after wave and kind of had her immunity on a wave and kind of had her immunity on a wave and kind of had her immunity on a lot of things but it didn't actually go lot of things but it didn't actually go lot of things but it didn't actually go away it just couldn't spread like a away it just couldn't spread like a away it just couldn't spread like a wildfire through the community so when wildfire through the community so when wildfire through the community so when they arrived to the Americas all of a they arrived to the Americas all of a they arrived to the Americas all of a sudden these just a pile of horrible sudden these just a pile of horrible sudden these just a pile of horrible diseases hit people I think in the first diseases hit people I think in the first diseases hit people I think in the first 20 30 years there were people who like 20 30 years there were people who like 20 30 years there were people who like had contracted multiple deadly diseases had contracted multiple deadly diseases had contracted multiple deadly diseases at once and died of them but the numbers at once and died of them but the numbers at once and died of them but the numbers you know it's it's a it's a shameful you know it's it's a it's a shameful you know it's it's a it's a shameful part of history and it wasn't something part of history and it wasn't something part of history and it wasn't something that Europe perpetrated on them they that Europe perpetrated on them they that Europe perpetrated on them they medical science at that time was still medical science at that time was still medical science at that time was still the four humors theory that people were the four humors theory that people were the four humors theory that people were made of yellow bi black bile blood and made of yellow bi black bile blood and made of yellow bi black bile blood and Flem and we did things like well you've Flem and we did things like well you've Flem and we did things like well you've got to bleed him he'll feel better then got to bleed him he'll feel better then got to bleed him he'll feel better then so we had no idea what an infectious so we had no idea what an infectious so we had no idea what an infectious disease was but the reality was that disease was but the reality was that disease was but the reality was that this horde of diseases hit everyone and this horde of diseases hit everyone and this horde of diseases hit everyone and the numbers are now saying in the first the numbers are now saying in the first the numbers are now saying in the first 50 years that it 90% of everybody was

50 years that it 90% of everybody was 50 years that it 90% of everybody was dead and that the the number of people dead and that the the number of people dead and that the the number of people has increased as well as far as the our has increased as well as far as the our has increased as well as far as the our estimates we're thinking it's some where estimates we're thinking it's some where estimates we're thinking it's some where around 150 million around 150 million around 150 million people and 90% of them died and with people and 90% of them died and with people and 90% of them died and with them all their knowledge just I mean them all their knowledge just I mean them all their knowledge just I mean imagine the moment where you know who imagine the moment where you know who imagine the moment where you know who dies when things get bad it's The Young dies when things get bad it's The Young dies when things get bad it's The Young and the old so all the knowledge Keepers and the old so all the knowledge Keepers and the old so all the knowledge Keepers die suddenly the children die this next die suddenly the children die this next die suddenly the children die this next Generation that's half taught and now Generation that's half taught and now Generation that's half taught and now completely demoralized thinking that completely demoralized thinking that completely demoralized thinking that this is a spiritual attack that they're this is a spiritual attack that they're this is a spiritual attack that they're Gods hate them that the only way out of Gods hate them that the only way out of Gods hate them that the only way out of it is to uh to accept this new it is to uh to accept this new it is to uh to accept this new Christianity but they you know they Christianity but they you know they Christianity but they you know they don't want to have bring kids into this don't want to have bring kids into this don't want to have bring kids into this world where everybody's dying and even world where everybody's dying and even world where everybody's dying and even if they do they can't teach them what if they do they can't teach them what if they do they can't teach them what the old people were going to teach them the old people were going to teach them the old people were going to teach them because the old people are gone and because the old people are gone and because the old people are gone and didn't finish the transmission so in a didn't finish the transmission so in a didn't finish the transmission so in a in a single terrible moment in human in a single terrible moment in human in a single terrible moment in human history you know the generation loses history you know the generation loses history you know the generation loses all their knowledge so a lot of the all their knowledge so a lot of the all their knowledge so a lot of the things that these people knew just things that these people knew just things that these people knew just blipped blipped blipped out but with that also just the the out but with that also just the the out but with that also just the the wisdom wisdom wisdom of the entire of the entire of the entire civilizations so much of what they knew civilizations so much of what they knew civilizations so much of what they knew was just lost at that moment we have the was just lost at that moment we have the was just lost at that moment we have the Maya who had those hieroglyphs and that Maya who had those hieroglyphs and that Maya who had those hieroglyphs and that we've learned a lot from that yeah but we've learned a lot from that yeah but we've learned a lot from that yeah but not a significant integration of that

not a significant integration of that not a significant integration of that wisdom into so it wasn't uh when the EUR wisdom into so it wasn't uh when the EUR wisdom into so it wasn't uh when the EUR Europeans came it wasn't like the Europeans came it wasn't like the Europeans came it wasn't like the cultures were integrated it was um a cultures were integrated it was um a cultures were integrated it was um a story of domination of a rer ESS in the story of domination of a rer ESS in the story of domination of a rer ESS in the in North America there's a a new term in in North America there's a a new term in in North America there's a a new term in the literature that I like we call it the literature that I like we call it the literature that I like we call it the uh the Mississippian shatter Zone the uh the Mississippian shatter Zone the uh the Mississippian shatter Zone that Mississippian civilization was that Mississippian civilization was that Mississippian civilization was millions of people but they got spread millions of people but they got spread millions of people but they got spread out all over the place over the next out all over the place over the next out all over the place over the next centuries and now we have this shatter centuries and now we have this shatter centuries and now we have this shatter Zone where we have oh ruins and the Zone where we have oh ruins and the Zone where we have oh ruins and the people that were actually from those people that were actually from those people that were actually from those ruins are somewhere else on a ruins are somewhere else on a ruins are somewhere else on a reservation far away and you know that reservation far away and you know that reservation far away and you know that I'm just about to talk to a a Cherokee I'm just about to talk to a a Cherokee I'm just about to talk to a a Cherokee man who listened to some of the things I man who listened to some of the things I man who listened to some of the things I had to say and says all those Hooch had to say and says all those Hooch had to say and says all those Hooch chunk things you were saying from that chunk things you were saying from that chunk things you were saying from that Hooch chunk culture my grandparents talk Hooch chunk culture my grandparents talk Hooch chunk culture my grandparents talk about this sort of thing too can I can I about this sort of thing too can I can I about this sort of thing too can I can I talk to you by phone and tell you about talk to you by phone and tell you about talk to you by phone and tell you about these things so we we've got this these things so we we've got this these things so we we've got this shatter Zone where you know we're going shatter Zone where you know we're going shatter Zone where you know we're going to try to put the piece the puzzle back to try to put the piece the puzzle back to try to put the piece the puzzle back together especially in terms of together especially in terms of together especially in terms of Mississippi and religion I really think Mississippi and religion I really think Mississippi and religion I really think we're making Headway in this generation we're making Headway in this generation we're making Headway in this generation and exciting to be part of piecing this and exciting to be part of piecing this and exciting to be part of piecing this old religion and its mythology back old religion and its mythology back old religion and its mythology back together just as uh since a lot of together just as uh since a lot of together just as uh since a lot of people kind of refer to Christopher people kind of refer to Christopher people kind of refer to Christopher Columbus as the person who discovered Columbus as the person who discovered Columbus as the person who discovered America um I read that the Vikings America um I read that the Vikings America um I read that the Vikings reached North America uh much earlier in reached North America uh much earlier in reached North America uh much earlier in um um um 1000 1000 1000 CE and uh why do you think they didn't

CE and uh why do you think they didn't CE and uh why do you think they didn't expand and expand and expand and colonize cuz they got their ass colonize cuz they got their ass colonize cuz they got their ass kicked Okay so it's the truth it is kicked Okay so it's the truth it is kicked Okay so it's the truth it is absolutely true that the Vikings were absolutely true that the Vikings were absolutely true that the Vikings were here there's a there's a great uh site here there's a there's a great uh site here there's a there's a great uh site in Nova Scotia called lenso Meadows in Nova Scotia called lenso Meadows in Nova Scotia called lenso Meadows which definitely has what's left of a which definitely has what's left of a which definitely has what's left of a Viking Colony it was leaf faric and his Viking Colony it was leaf faric and his Viking Colony it was leaf faric and his father Eric the Red who they got kind of father Eric the Red who they got kind of father Eric the Red who they got kind of kicked out of Europe because they kicked out of Europe because they kicked out of Europe because they apparently couldn't stop murdering apparently couldn't stop murdering apparently couldn't stop murdering people and so they went to Greenland and people and so they went to Greenland and people and so they went to Greenland and then kind of Island hopped over to then kind of Island hopped over to then kind of Island hopped over to Canada but I think the culture that was Canada but I think the culture that was Canada but I think the culture that was in that area was name the in that area was name the in that area was name the Dorset but they would have nothing to do Dorset but they would have nothing to do Dorset but they would have nothing to do with the Vikings they they attacked the with the Vikings they they attacked the with the Vikings they they attacked the Viking settlement every day and did not Viking settlement every day and did not Viking settlement every day and did not give them an inch until they decided it give them an inch until they decided it give them an inch until they decided it was just worthless and they left it you was just worthless and they left it you was just worthless and they left it you know the Vikings attacked Ireland and know the Vikings attacked Ireland and know the Vikings attacked Ireland and they just found a bunch of you know they just found a bunch of you know they just found a bunch of you know monasteries full of gold with a bunch of monasteries full of gold with a bunch of monasteries full of gold with a bunch of guys going we're men of God we don't guys going we're men of God we don't guys going we're men of God we don't fight and Vikings were like this is fight and Vikings were like this is fight and Vikings were like this is great that's great this will be easy great that's great this will be easy great that's great this will be easy then we'll just loot all these Easter then we'll just loot all these Easter then we'll just loot all these Easter eggs but the n Native Americans in eggs but the n Native Americans in eggs but the n Native Americans in Canada were like not having it they Canada were like not having it they Canada were like not having it they kicked their ass in fact Leaf Ericson's kicked their ass in fact Leaf Ericson's kicked their ass in fact Leaf Ericson's brother Thor died there the the natives brother Thor died there the the natives brother Thor died there the the natives killed him he was supposed to be in killed him he was supposed to be in killed him he was supposed to be in charge of expanding the settlement but charge of expanding the settlement but charge of expanding the settlement but they they just killed him so a lot of they they just killed him so a lot of they they just killed him so a lot of the Native American cultures were also I the Native American cultures were also I the Native American cultures were also I mean they're sophisticated Waring mean they're sophisticated Waring mean they're sophisticated Waring cultures also yes they fought especially

cultures also yes they fought especially cultures also yes they fought especially the the mississippians boy they were the the mississippians boy they were the the mississippians boy they were tough and so were uh you know the the tough and so were uh you know the the tough and so were uh you know the the five Nation s the Mohawk the five Nation s the Mohawk the five Nation s the Mohawk the Huron those the ones that that kicked Huron those the ones that that kicked Huron those the ones that that kicked the Vikings ass up there they were the Vikings ass up there they were the Vikings ass up there they were probably uh Algonquin speakers but they probably uh Algonquin speakers but they probably uh Algonquin speakers but they were connected like you know just above were connected like you know just above were connected like you know just above the the Great Lakes but they were all a the the Great Lakes but they were all a the the Great Lakes but they were all a very tough people when you think about very tough people when you think about very tough people when you think about the Spaniards and the the Portuguese and the Spaniards and the the Portuguese and the Spaniards and the the Portuguese and the the over 100 million people that the the over 100 million people that the the over 100 million people that were were were killed um do you see that as a tragedy killed um do you see that as a tragedy killed um do you see that as a tragedy of history or is it just the way of of history or is it just the way of of history or is it just the way of history I think that the history I think that the history I think that the epidemics I I consider it a tragedy that epidemics I I consider it a tragedy that epidemics I I consider it a tragedy that did not have to happen then that was not did not have to happen then that was not did not have to happen then that was not you know that was not a fair fight you know that was not a fair fight you know that was not a fair fight nobody knew what to do about it there nobody knew what to do about it there nobody knew what to do about it there was just a a a tragic Perfect Storm of was just a a a tragic Perfect Storm of was just a a a tragic Perfect Storm of events it was not you know that I think events it was not you know that I think events it was not you know that I think that the Spanish and the Portuguese get that the Spanish and the Portuguese get that the Spanish and the Portuguese get unfairly maligned in what's been called unfairly maligned in what's been called unfairly maligned in what's been called the the black legend that they just the the black legend that they just the the black legend that they just marched into America and murdered marched into America and murdered marched into America and murdered everyone that's not the fact everyone that's not the fact everyone that's not the fact that it was the diseases that murdered that it was the diseases that murdered that it was the diseases that murdered everyone in fact there was a a really everyone in fact there was a a really everyone in fact there was a a really poignant uh story I read of a a Spanish poignant uh story I read of a a Spanish poignant uh story I read of a a Spanish priest in the Amazon in the in the priest in the Amazon in the in the priest in the Amazon in the in the Brazilian northern part of the Amazon Brazilian northern part of the Amazon Brazilian northern part of the Amazon where he made this Utopian where he made this Utopian where he made this Utopian community and he was bringing people in community and he was bringing people in community and he was bringing people in that were getting sick and he he wrote that were getting sick and he he wrote that were getting sick and he he wrote you know I'm baptizing everyone you know you know I'm baptizing everyone you know you know I'm baptizing everyone you know I have baptized 10,000 people a day and

I have baptized 10,000 people a day and I have baptized 10,000 people a day and yet God's still killing them why why is yet God's still killing them why why is yet God's still killing them why why is he doing this to them they're doing he doing this to them they're doing he doing this to them they're doing everything that I ask them to do they everything that I ask them to do they everything that I ask them to do they are submitting to the will of God but are submitting to the will of God but are submitting to the will of God but this guy doesn't realize that the same this guy doesn't realize that the same this guy doesn't realize that the same bowl of holy water that he's baptizing bowl of holy water that he's baptizing bowl of holy water that he's baptizing them in he's just wiping the disease on them in he's just wiping the disease on them in he's just wiping the disease on everybody's faces he's accelerating it everybody's faces he's accelerating it everybody's faces he's accelerating it when he doesn't even realize he thinks when he doesn't even realize he thinks when he doesn't even realize he thinks he's saving them but he's actually he's saving them but he's actually he's saving them but he's actually killing them yeah that's a tra that's a tragedy them yeah that's a tra that's a tragedy you know that's not just like spoils go you know that's not just like spoils go you know that's not just like spoils go to the Victor stuff that's just straight to the Victor stuff that's just straight to the Victor stuff that's just straight up tragedy yeah yeah but that one is up tragedy yeah yeah but that one is up tragedy yeah yeah but that one is hard to know what to do with like Black hard to know what to do with like Black hard to know what to do with like Black Death Death Death it's I mean infections they don't it's I mean infections they don't it's I mean infections they don't operate on normal human terms right they operate on normal human terms right they operate on normal human terms right they just they just go through entire just they just go through entire just they just go through entire populations back to wild populations back to wild populations back to wild ideas all right just my ideas all right just my ideas all right just my style um I mean we didn't really talk style um I mean we didn't really talk style um I mean we didn't really talk about how life originated on Earth or about how life originated on Earth or about how life originated on Earth or how uh how humans have how uh how humans have how uh how humans have evolved and we did talk about that there evolved and we did talk about that there evolved and we did talk about that there could be just a lot of stuff in ancient could be just a lot of stuff in ancient could be just a lot of stuff in ancient history we haven't even uncovered history we haven't even uncovered history we haven't even uncovered yet uh do you think it's possible that yet uh do you think it's possible that yet uh do you think it's possible that other intelligent civilizations from other intelligent civilizations from other intelligent civilizations from outside of Earth aliens ever visited you outside of Earth aliens ever visited you outside of Earth aliens ever visited you had me right into the ever visited thing had me right into the ever visited thing had me right into the ever visited thing that one I'm not entirely sure about I'm that one I'm not entirely sure about I'm that one I'm not entirely sure about I'm not sure whether we have any we

not sure whether we have any we not sure whether we have any we certainly have no archaeological proof certainly have no archaeological proof certainly have no archaeological proof that I would uh cite or contemplate as that I would uh cite or contemplate as that I would uh cite or contemplate as the evidence of the evidence of the evidence of such but you know uh you the guys that such but you know uh you the guys that such but you know uh you the guys that that discovered DNA Watson and Crick uh that discovered DNA Watson and Crick uh that discovered DNA Watson and Crick uh Watson uh who actually habitually used Watson uh who actually habitually used Watson uh who actually habitually used hallucinogens to to uh invigorate his hallucinogens to to uh invigorate his hallucinogens to to uh invigorate his thinking he said that he thought that thinking he said that he thought that thinking he said that he thought that DNA on this planet was way too complex DNA on this planet was way too complex DNA on this planet was way too complex to have developed over the time period to have developed over the time period to have developed over the time period that it had at its dispos Al and that that it had at its dispos Al and that that it had at its dispos Al and that his guess was that our DNA was somehow his guess was that our DNA was somehow his guess was that our DNA was somehow seated from outside of our planet and seated from outside of our planet and seated from outside of our planet and you know take that for what it is but you know take that for what it is but you know take that for what it is but the guy who we respect on many other the guy who we respect on many other the guy who we respect on many other levels also said levels also said levels also said that um so that's interesting but in that um so that's interesting but in that um so that's interesting but in terms of you terms of you terms of you know aliens visiting us I I don't know know aliens visiting us I I don't know know aliens visiting us I I don't know it does smack of a kind of human huus it does smack of a kind of human huus it does smack of a kind of human huus that we think were important enough for that we think were important enough for that we think were important enough for some Advanced species to give a some Advanced species to give a some Advanced species to give a about us statistically speaking the about us statistically speaking the about us statistically speaking the universe is way too big we can't be the universe is way too big we can't be the universe is way too big we can't be the only sensient beings there's got to be only sensient beings there's got to be only sensient beings there's got to be somebody else out there whether they somebody else out there whether they somebody else out there whether they care about us that's a question I've care about us that's a question I've care about us that's a question I've been on Ancient Aliens a number of times been on Ancient Aliens a number of times been on Ancient Aliens a number of times I show up and you know I'm an educator I I show up and you know I'm an educator I I show up and you know I'm an educator I mean refusing to be part of the mean refusing to be part of the mean refusing to be part of the conversation is an immediate fail in my conversation is an immediate fail in my conversation is an immediate fail in my book um but there was one time where book um but there was one time where book um but there was one time where they asked me at the end you know do you they asked me at the end you know do you they asked me at the end you know do you have anything else uh do you want to say

have anything else uh do you want to say have anything else uh do you want to say and I saidwell you know yeah y'all's and I saidwell you know yeah y'all's and I saidwell you know yeah y'all's premise is that aliens came down a long premise is that aliens came down a long premise is that aliens came down a long time ago and they gave Humanity these time ago and they gave Humanity these time ago and they gave Humanity these wonderful Gifts of you know science and wonderful Gifts of you know science and wonderful Gifts of you know science and medicine engineering all these things medicine engineering all these things medicine engineering all these things today we also have a lot of uh stories today we also have a lot of uh stories today we also have a lot of uh stories of the aliens coming down but now all of the aliens coming down but now all of the aliens coming down but now all they're doing is mutilating cows and they're doing is mutilating cows and they're doing is mutilating cows and sodomizing rednecks MH like whatever we sodomizing rednecks MH like whatever we sodomizing rednecks MH like whatever we did we were super pissed them off did we were super pissed them off did we were super pissed them off apparently apparently apparently the quality of the gifts has decreased the quality of the gifts has decreased the quality of the gifts has decreased rapidly um what it's it's interesting rapidly um what it's it's interesting rapidly um what it's it's interesting thought you've thought you've thought you've mentioned what archaeologically would mentioned what archaeologically would mentioned what archaeologically would you have to see to be like this might be you have to see to be like this might be you have to see to be like this might be an an an alien a technology that doesn't belong alien a technology that doesn't belong alien a technology that doesn't belong there first and foremost I mean you know there first and foremost I mean you know there first and foremost I mean you know we got to it it if we just run with the we got to it it if we just run with the we got to it it if we just run with the premise that somebody was capable of premise that somebody was capable of premise that somebody was capable of making a making a making a vehicle that could get them from vehicle that could get them from vehicle that could get them from somewhere far away to somewhere far away to somewhere far away to here that was almost certainly here that was almost certainly here that was almost certainly mechanical now I you know I love the mechanical now I you know I love the mechanical now I you know I love the aliens thing where you know aliens thing where you know aliens thing where you know biomechanical is something that that biomechanical is something that that biomechanical is something that that certainly could be and that would you certainly could be and that would you certainly could be and that would you know that that would uh disintegrate we know that that would uh disintegrate we know that that would uh disintegrate we wouldn't see that at all but I would wouldn't see that at all but I would wouldn't see that at all but I would expect some kind of uh technology that expect some kind of uh technology that expect some kind of uh technology that that showed up out of the blue and that showed up out of the blue and that showed up out of the blue and changed things that would be something changed things that would be something changed things that would be something um but but I would think you know um but but I would think you know um but but I would think you know mechanical or you know a substance mechanical or you know a substance mechanical or you know a substance that's not from here but of course we

that's not from here but of course we that's not from here but of course we would only see the the results of that would only see the the results of that would only see the the results of that mechanical you mean like literally a mechanical you mean like literally a mechanical you mean like literally a mechanical thing right some sort of mechanical thing right some sort of mechanical thing right some sort of thing like that it the typical thing thing like that it the typical thing thing like that it the typical thing people say is like you know how did they people say is like you know how did they people say is like you know how did they move these giant Stones right but you move these giant Stones right but you move these giant Stones right but you know just just look at that on the face know just just look at that on the face know just just look at that on the face for a second aliens come from across the for a second aliens come from across the for a second aliens come from across the universe to meet humans and the thing universe to meet humans and the thing universe to meet humans and the thing they tell them is how to move rocks are they tell them is how to move rocks are they tell them is how to move rocks are you kidding me I mean you know you kidding me I mean you know you kidding me I mean you know like give them give them antibiotics or like give them give them antibiotics or like give them give them antibiotics or a combustion engine or something you're a combustion engine or something you're a combustion engine or something you're going to they they came across the going to they they came across the going to they they came across the universe and they showed them how to universe and they showed them how to universe and they showed them how to move big rocks I mean that doesn't make move big rocks I mean that doesn't make move big rocks I mean that doesn't make any any any sense that just doesn't make any sense that just doesn't make any sense that just doesn't make any sense what do you think Earth will look sense what do you think Earth will look sense what do you think Earth will look like 10,000 years from like 10,000 years from like 10,000 years from now that's a interesting now that's a interesting now that's a interesting question I think it will be a lot more question I think it will be a lot more question I think it will be a lot more automated or or it'll be a small wering automated or or it'll be a small wering automated or or it'll be a small wering pile I mean there is a possibility we pile I mean there is a possibility we pile I mean there is a possibility we could end ourselves there's always that could end ourselves there's always that could end ourselves there's always that possibility that we've really opened possibility that we've really opened possibility that we've really opened Pandora's Box in some Pandora's Box in some Pandora's Box in some regards I I did listen to one of your regards I I did listen to one of your regards I I did listen to one of your podcast guests with the uh what would podcast guests with the uh what would podcast guests with the uh what would happen in the case of nuclear war yeah happen in the case of nuclear war yeah happen in the case of nuclear war yeah that was chilling her opinion was that was chilling her opinion was that was chilling her opinion was certainly we would burn everything to a certainly we would burn everything to a certainly we would burn everything to a crisp within minutes apparently so we we crisp within minutes apparently so we we crisp within minutes apparently so we we have that capacity that's scary that's a have that capacity that's scary that's a have that capacity that's scary that's a possible future for us but I'm an possible future for us but I'm an possible future for us but I'm an Optimist i' you know I'd like to think

Optimist i' you know I'd like to think Optimist i' you know I'd like to think that guys like you are going to make that guys like you are going to make that guys like you are going to make friendly robots who make my job friendly robots who make my job friendly robots who make my job better but a thousand 10,000 years is a better but a thousand 10,000 years is a better but a thousand 10,000 years is a long time and uh technology is improving long time and uh technology is improving long time and uh technology is improving and becoming more advanced rapidly and and becoming more advanced rapidly and and becoming more advanced rapidly and uh the rate of that Improvement is uh the rate of that Improvement is uh the rate of that Improvement is increasing ever more so that that's the increasing ever more so that that's the increasing ever more so that that's the part that frightens me actually I don't part that frightens me actually I don't part that frightens me actually I don't does that frighten you yes it's does that frighten you yes it's does that frighten you yes it's terrifying you know I I I I heard terrifying you know I I I I heard terrifying you know I I I I heard somebody say I forget who it was but you somebody say I forget who it was but you somebody say I forget who it was but you know uh systems of any kind human know uh systems of any kind human know uh systems of any kind human systems biological systems can be put on systems biological systems can be put on systems biological systems can be put on a graph that's change over time and any a graph that's change over time and any a graph that's change over time and any graph that the change is way faster than graph that the change is way faster than graph that the change is way faster than the time and the and the the line starts the time and the and the the line starts the time and the and the the line starts going straight up that is a system in going straight up that is a system in going straight up that is a system in crisis and almost any biological system crisis and almost any biological system crisis and almost any biological system that has that has to change over that that has that has to change over that that has that has to change over that little a time you would any any other little a time you would any any other little a time you would any any other thing you'd describe it as a crisis when thing you'd describe it as a crisis when thing you'd describe it as a crisis when you apply that chart to Technologies you apply that chart to Technologies you apply that chart to Technologies change it's a crisis from that change it's a crisis from that change it's a crisis from that perspective absolutely but I also have a perspective absolutely but I also have a perspective absolutely but I also have a faith in human faith in human faith in human Ingenuity that we humans like to Ingenuity that we humans like to Ingenuity that we humans like to create a really difficult situation and create a really difficult situation and create a really difficult situation and then come up with ways to uh get out of then come up with ways to uh get out of then come up with ways to uh get out of that difficult situation and in so doing that difficult situation and in so doing that difficult situation and in so doing innovate and create create a lot of innovate and create create a lot of innovate and create create a lot of awesome stuff and sometimes cause a lot

awesome stuff and sometimes cause a lot awesome stuff and sometimes cause a lot of suffering but on the whole on average of suffering but on the whole on average of suffering but on the whole on average uh make a better world but yeah if it uh make a better world but yeah if it uh make a better world but yeah if it you know like with nuclear weapons the you know like with nuclear weapons the you know like with nuclear weapons the bad stuff might actually lead to the bad stuff might actually lead to the bad stuff might actually lead to the death of everybody I guess there's death of everybody I guess there's death of everybody I guess there's always that that chance but I am an always that that chance but I am an always that that chance but I am an optimist I you know I think you're an optimist I you know I think you're an optimist I you know I think you're an optimist too I I think uh exactly as you optimist too I I think uh exactly as you optimist too I I think uh exactly as you just said I think that the greatest just said I think that the greatest just said I think that the greatest capacity of humans is our ability to capacity of humans is our ability to capacity of humans is our ability to innovate and we are never more innovate and we are never more innovate and we are never more Innovative than when we're under Innovative than when we're under Innovative than when we're under distress I think that a lot of the distress I think that a lot of the distress I think that a lot of the developments of humans over the last developments of humans over the last developments of humans over the last thousands of years have been about you thousands of years have been about you thousands of years have been about you know we didn't we didn't change the know we didn't we didn't change the know we didn't we didn't change the world when we were comfortable it was world when we were comfortable it was world when we were comfortable it was when we were in crisis mother necessity when we were in crisis mother necessity when we were in crisis mother necessity is the mother of invention and I think is the mother of invention and I think is the mother of invention and I think we'll be all right I think that uh this we'll be all right I think that uh this we'll be all right I think that uh this impending uh climate crisis is real and impending uh climate crisis is real and impending uh climate crisis is real and happening I actually personally think happening I actually personally think happening I actually personally think that uh I'm gonna I'm gonna answer a that uh I'm gonna I'm gonna answer a that uh I'm gonna I'm gonna answer a question that you didn't even ask me question that you didn't even ask me question that you didn't even ask me great um I think we're wasting our time great um I think we're wasting our time great um I think we're wasting our time thinking that we can reverse this we're thinking that we can reverse this we're thinking that we can reverse this we're uh delusional I'm all for electric cars uh delusional I'm all for electric cars uh delusional I'm all for electric cars and uh you know uh being good stewards and uh you know uh being good stewards and uh you know uh being good stewards of the environment but we are wasting of the environment but we are wasting of the environment but we are wasting our time not technologically adapting to our time not technologically adapting to our time not technologically adapting to what's about to happen we're spending what's about to happen we're spending what's about to happen we're spending too much time pretending in know the too much time pretending in know the too much time pretending in know the average American thinks if we all just

average American thinks if we all just average American thinks if we all just drive electric cars we'll be okay that's drive electric cars we'll be okay that's drive electric cars we'll be okay that's that's not going to happen we that's not going to happen we that's not going to happen we need to start making technologies that need to start making technologies that need to start making technologies that desalinized water that know a host of desalinized water that know a host of desalinized water that know a host of things that uh that we need to use our things that uh that we need to use our things that uh that we need to use our technological P capacity to accept it technological P capacity to accept it technological P capacity to accept it and adapt instead of poana thinking we and adapt instead of poana thinking we and adapt instead of poana thinking we can make it go away yeah yeah I kind of can make it go away yeah yeah I kind of can make it go away yeah yeah I kind of accept that the world will change and uh accept that the world will change and uh accept that the world will change and uh a lot of big problems will a lot of big problems will a lot of big problems will arise and just develop technology that arise and just develop technology that arise and just develop technology that addresses them I think you have some addresses them I think you have some addresses them I think you have some some guys that have their finger on the some guys that have their finger on the some guys that have their finger on the pulse there we need to start thinking pulse there we need to start thinking pulse there we need to start thinking about how we're going to survive this about how we're going to survive this about how we're going to survive this not that we're going to make it go away not that we're going to make it go away not that we're going to make it go away and not just survive and not just survive and not just survive thrive um again we're pretty Innovative thrive um again we're pretty Innovative thrive um again we're pretty Innovative in that regard but if some catastrophic in that regard but if some catastrophic in that regard but if some catastrophic thing happens or we just leave this thing happens or we just leave this thing happens or we just leave this planet what planet what planet what uh what do you think would be found uh what do you think would be found uh what do you think would be found by a a before mentioned alien by a a before mentioned alien by a a before mentioned alien civilizations when they visit the civilizations when they visit the civilizations when they visit the Anthropologist the grad student Anthropologist the grad student Anthropologist the grad student anthropologists that visit Earth and anthropologists that visit Earth and anthropologists that visit Earth and study how much of what we now have and study how much of what we now have and study how much of what we now have and love and think of as human civilization love and think of as human civilization love and think of as human civilization will be lost do you think well you know will be lost do you think well you know will be lost do you think well you know time moves on and things that are time moves on and things that are time moves on and things that are perishable perish so you know you didn't perishable perish so you know you didn't perishable perish so you know you didn't put a time element in there but I would put a time element in there but I would put a time element in there but I would say that you know everything that can say that you know everything that can say that you know everything that can perish will and whoever shows up here perish will and whoever shows up here perish will and whoever shows up here will be stuck with only the things that will be stuck with only the things that will be stuck with only the things that didn't perish so we'll have you know

didn't perish so we'll have you know didn't perish so we'll have you know buildings plaques but they won't have buildings plaques but they won't have buildings plaques but they won't have any books they won't have any you know any books they won't have any you know any books they won't have any you know Billboards they they'll have the Billboards they they'll have the Billboards they they'll have the incomplete record I haveh I I one time incomplete record I haveh I I one time incomplete record I haveh I I one time did a did a talk in Sue did a did a talk in Sue did a did a talk in Sue Falls and I said you know I I drove in Falls and I said you know I I drove in Falls and I said you know I I drove in here and there was a big obelisk in here and there was a big obelisk in here and there was a big obelisk in front of the town and Everywhere I Go I front of the town and Everywhere I Go I front of the town and Everywhere I Go I see the names Lewis and Clark and a see the names Lewis and Clark and a see the names Lewis and Clark and a thousand years from now if I was an thousand years from now if I was an thousand years from now if I was an archaeologist investigating this place I archaeologist investigating this place I archaeologist investigating this place I would think that it was founded by the would think that it was founded by the would think that it was founded by the Egyptians and their kings were named Egyptians and their kings were named Egyptians and their kings were named Lewis and Clark but the truth is you Lewis and Clark but the truth is you Lewis and Clark but the truth is you know Lewis and Clark stayed one night know Lewis and Clark stayed one night know Lewis and Clark stayed one night here but it's just a big deal so I would here but it's just a big deal so I would here but it's just a big deal so I would be so wrong about what I thought about be so wrong about what I thought about be so wrong about what I thought about your town based on what preserved it's your town based on what preserved it's your town based on what preserved it's so beautiful as a thought experiment so beautiful as a thought experiment so beautiful as a thought experiment like what would archaeologists be really like what would archaeologists be really like what would archaeologists be really wrong about and what would they could wrong about and what would they could wrong about and what would they could possibly be right about Washington DC possibly be right about Washington DC possibly be right about Washington DC was clearly made by a combination of the was clearly made by a combination of the was clearly made by a combination of the Egyptians and the Greeks and the Romans Egyptians and the Greeks and the Romans Egyptians and the Greeks and the Romans because that's what all the architecture because that's what all the architecture because that's what all the architecture is yeah and would they be able to is yeah and would they be able to is yeah and would they be able to reconstruct the important Empires the reconstruct the important Empires the reconstruct the important Empires the the the powerful the the powerful the the powerful Empires and the the Waring Empires and the the Waring Empires and the the Waring Empires for that matter have me and my Empires for that matter have me and my Empires for that matter have me and my colleagues done that at all I I'm almost colleagues done that at all I I'm almost colleagues done that at all I I'm almost certain that the Maya would just gut certain that the Maya would just gut certain that the Maya would just gut laugh at what I think I know what they laugh at what I think I know what they laugh at what I think I know what they were I wonder do you you ever think

were I wonder do you you ever think were I wonder do you you ever think about like what we just as a human about like what we just as a human about like what we just as a human civilization are wrong about the most civilization are wrong about the most civilization are wrong about the most like mainstream like mainstream like mainstream archaeology just like a suspicion what archaeology just like a suspicion what archaeology just like a suspicion what what could we get completely what could we get completely what could we get completely wrong um well one way to get something wrong um well one way to get something wrong um well one way to get something wrong is totally like lost civiliz like wrong is totally like lost civiliz like wrong is totally like lost civiliz like an obviously gigantic civilization that an obviously gigantic civilization that an obviously gigantic civilization that was there along with the Maya or was there along with the Maya or was there along with the Maya or something like this in the 10,000 years something like this in the 10,000 years something like this in the 10,000 years ago there's certainly that there could ago there's certainly that there could ago there's certainly that there could be things that were either wiped away or be things that were either wiped away or be things that were either wiped away or still hiding under the oceans that would still hiding under the oceans that would still hiding under the oceans that would completely change the way we think about completely change the way we think about completely change the way we think about things and everybody knew they existed things and everybody knew they existed things and everybody knew they existed and everybody interacted with them it and everybody interacted with them it and everybody interacted with them it was I think I think that's our was I think I think that's our was I think I think that's our estimation of their motivations that estimation of their motivations that estimation of their motivations that were probably most wrong on ah my uh my were probably most wrong on ah my uh my were probably most wrong on ah my uh my teacher Sheely a long time ago said you teacher Sheely a long time ago said you teacher Sheely a long time ago said you know I i' would come up with all sorts know I i' would come up with all sorts know I i' would come up with all sorts of theories I was always thinking about of theories I was always thinking about of theories I was always thinking about stuff and she looked at me and she said stuff and she looked at me and she said stuff and she looked at me and she said if you don't stop thinking like a if you don't stop thinking like a if you don't stop thinking like a Western European and start trying to put Western European and start trying to put Western European and start trying to put yourself in the mindset of these people yourself in the mindset of these people yourself in the mindset of these people you will never understand any of it you will never understand any of it you will never understand any of it which I've always taken to heart I mean which I've always taken to heart I mean which I've always taken to heart I mean I really do when I approach these things I really do when I approach these things I really do when I approach these things I try to step out of my cultural I try to step out of my cultural I try to step out of my cultural assumptions try to think like they would assumptions try to think like they would assumptions try to think like they would think is the best I could and it's very think is the best I could and it's very think is the best I could and it's very different I mean this whole you know the different I mean this whole you know the different I mean this whole you know the May are are cyclical you know this the May are are cyclical you know this the May are are cyclical you know this the the whole sacrifice we're so you know the whole sacrifice we're so you know the whole sacrifice we're so you know obsessed with that but you know know obsessed with that but you know know obsessed with that but you know know that was an austere actual sacrifice on that was an austere actual sacrifice on that was an austere actual sacrifice on their part they weren't just you know

their part they weren't just you know their part they weren't just you know hey let's all get together and kill that hey let's all get together and kill that hey let's all get together and kill that guy that's pissing us off I mean they guy that's pissing us off I mean they guy that's pissing us off I mean they were like you know giving the best of were like you know giving the best of were like you know giving the best of them it was it was a different mentality them it was it was a different mentality them it was it was a different mentality this was not brutal this was a you know this was not brutal this was a you know this was not brutal this was a you know Bonafide sacrifice on their part a Bonafide sacrifice on their part a Bonafide sacrifice on their part a loss plus the whole mystery of of the loss plus the whole mystery of of the loss plus the whole mystery of of the puppy that eventually starts having sex puppy that eventually starts having sex puppy that eventually starts having sex with his I tell you that one I'm going with his I tell you that one I'm going with his I tell you that one I'm going to unweave that one one of these days to unweave that one one of these days to unweave that one one of these days one of these days now this that puppy one of these days now this that puppy one of these days now this that puppy appeared on the on Pottery all over appeared on the on Pottery all over appeared on the on Pottery all over Pottery he's he's he's everywhere I got Pottery he's he's he's everywhere I got Pottery he's he's he's everywhere I got to write this book I this next year is to write this book I this next year is to write this book I this next year is the year I'm going to write my Fang the year I'm going to write my Fang the year I'm going to write my Fang deity book and I will have a whole deity book and I will have a whole deity book and I will have a whole chapter dedicated to the puppy the chapter dedicated to the puppy the chapter dedicated to the puppy the mystery solved I mean it could just be mystery solved I mean it could just be mystery solved I mean it could just be the birth of uh memes of humor I don't the birth of uh memes of humor I don't the birth of uh memes of humor I don't know I mean again humor you don't know know I mean again humor you don't know know I mean again humor you don't know what the nature of their humor of what what the nature of their humor of what what the nature of their humor of what their jokes are oh that's a neat one too their jokes are oh that's a neat one too their jokes are oh that's a neat one too then that's so human yeah the I'll tell then that's so human yeah the I'll tell then that's so human yeah the I'll tell you a little like Side Story here that you a little like Side Story here that you a little like Side Story here that uh when I worked with the Maya people in uh when I worked with the Maya people in uh when I worked with the Maya people in pen I spent three years making this map pen I spent three years making this map pen I spent three years making this map of the city and Hiking Through the of the city and Hiking Through the of the city and Hiking Through the Jungle every day and they would talk to Jungle every day and they would talk to Jungle every day and they would talk to each other in their own language uh it each other in their own language uh it each other in their own language uh it was cell tall was the group I was was cell tall was the group I was was cell tall was the group I was working with but I noticed after a while working with but I noticed after a while working with but I noticed after a while they were they were big Jokers they they were they were big Jokers they they were they were big Jokers they loved to make jokes and they would laugh loved to make jokes and they would laugh loved to make jokes and they would laugh at jokes but then they would also one of at jokes but then they would also one of at jokes but then they would also one of them would say something and the other them would say something and the other them would say something and the other ones would go go hoooo and I eventually ones would go go hoooo and I eventually ones would go go hoooo and I eventually asked you know what is that why do you asked you know what is that why do you asked you know what is that why do you guys always make that whoohoo noise and

guys always make that whoohoo noise and guys always make that whoohoo noise and I said that's cuz he made a really smart I said that's cuz he made a really smart I said that's cuz he made a really smart pun it was like he said three different pun it was like he said three different pun it was like he said three different things at once it was a turn of phrase things at once it was a turn of phrase things at once it was a turn of phrase that was smart and they didn't make that was smart and they didn't make that was smart and they didn't make laughs at that it was their they had a laughs at that it was their they had a laughs at that it was their they had a noise for when somebody said something noise for when somebody said something noise for when somebody said something just super clever yeah so there's also just super clever yeah so there's also just super clever yeah so there's also that like you know just clever turn of that like you know just clever turn of that like you know just clever turn of speech yeah wi and I think about that speech yeah wi and I think about that speech yeah wi and I think about that when I'm a a a hieroglyphic translator when I'm a a a hieroglyphic translator when I'm a a a hieroglyphic translator like here's a beautiful thing that's like here's a beautiful thing that's like here's a beautiful thing that's going to be like a poem or a political going to be like a poem or a political going to be like a poem or a political statement like and I'm just plotting statement like and I'm just plotting statement like and I'm just plotting looking in a dictionary of what that looking in a dictionary of what that looking in a dictionary of what that word means there's probably double word means there's probably double word means there's probably double triple on Tundras all through this text triple on Tundras all through this text triple on Tundras all through this text and the real meaning is the subtext and and the real meaning is the subtext and and the real meaning is the subtext and I'm you know I'm thinking they're I'm you know I'm thinking they're I'm you know I'm thinking they're talking about corn and they're talking talking about corn and they're talking talking about corn and they're talking about the nature of Life yeah it could about the nature of Life yeah it could about the nature of Life yeah it could be satire it could be you know as it was be satire it could be you know as it was be satire it could be you know as it was in the Soviet Union when there's a dict in the Soviet Union when there's a dict in the Soviet Union when there's a dict or maybe there's a overpowering king or maybe there's a overpowering king or maybe there's a overpowering king you're not allowed to actually speak uh you're not allowed to actually speak uh you're not allowed to actually speak uh you have to hide the thing you're you're you have to hide the thing you're you're you have to hide the thing you're you're actually trying to say uh in the subtext actually trying to say uh in the subtext actually trying to say uh in the subtext so and all of that there was a a funny so and all of that there was a a funny so and all of that there was a a funny uh Maya ceramic that had the Ceramics uh Maya ceramic that had the Ceramics uh Maya ceramic that had the Ceramics are neat because they don't the the The are neat because they don't the the The are neat because they don't the the The Monuments can be kind of broken records Monuments can be kind of broken records Monuments can be kind of broken records I'm the king I was born this time I beat I'm the king I was born this time I beat I'm the king I was born this time I beat these people up I married this woman I these people up I married this woman I these people up I married this woman I died but the Ceramics will tell us like died but the Ceramics will tell us like died but the Ceramics will tell us like things out of Mythology stories and things out of Mythology stories and things out of Mythology stories and there was this one with a rabbit looking there was this one with a rabbit looking there was this one with a rabbit looking at the merchant God and nobody could

at the merchant God and nobody could at the merchant God and nobody could translate the text and finally this uh translate the text and finally this uh translate the text and finally this uh Eastern European actually a Ukrainian Eastern European actually a Ukrainian Eastern European actually a Ukrainian guy translated it and the rabbit saying guy translated it and the rabbit saying guy translated it and the rabbit saying to uh to the merchant to uh to the merchant to uh to the merchant God bend over and smell my God bend over and smell my God bend over and smell my ass and like oh man we were expecting ass and like oh man we were expecting ass and like oh man we were expecting this wonderful piece of Mythology but no this wonderful piece of Mythology but no this wonderful piece of Mythology but no it translates bend over and smell my ass it translates bend over and smell my ass it translates bend over and smell my ass that's great that's great that's great that's human as we mentioned previously that's human as we mentioned previously that's human as we mentioned previously human nature does not change uh you you human nature does not change uh you you human nature does not change uh you you mentioned pank mapping it it's just out mentioned pank mapping it it's just out mentioned pank mapping it it's just out of curiosity like what is that process of curiosity like what is that process of curiosity like what is that process like that seems like that seems like that seems fascinating oh it was uh it was a great fascinating oh it was uh it was a great fascinating oh it was uh it was a great adventure I loved it but it was it was adventure I loved it but it was it was adventure I loved it but it was it was difficult I I woke up every morning difficult I I woke up every morning difficult I I woke up every morning thinking I will be hurt today somehow I thinking I will be hurt today somehow I thinking I will be hurt today somehow I don't know how I don't know how badly don't know how I don't know how badly don't know how I don't know how badly where on my body it will occur but it's where on my body it will occur but it's where on my body it will occur but it's going to happen because it was the going to happen because it was the going to happen because it was the jungle so in the jungle what's what's jungle so in the jungle what's what's jungle so in the jungle what's what's the process like like what what what do the process like like what what what do the process like like what what what do you have to do to to map it well it was you have to do to to map it well it was you have to do to to map it well it was tricky too because it was also a a tricky too because it was also a a tricky too because it was also a a national forest so the Forestry national forest so the Forestry national forest so the Forestry Department didn't want us to cut down Department didn't want us to cut down Department didn't want us to cut down anything more than we had to so we'd anything more than we had to so we'd anything more than we had to so we'd basically just cut tunnels through the basically just cut tunnels through the basically just cut tunnels through the foliage and I would uh we'd map foliage and I would uh we'd map foliage and I would uh we'd map everything twice the first thing we do everything twice the first thing we do everything twice the first thing we do is I'd go is I'd go is I'd go in uh find a building draw it on a piece in uh find a building draw it on a piece in uh find a building draw it on a piece of graph paper and I'd say like you know of graph paper and I'd say like you know of graph paper and I'd say like you know you guys go north you guys go east west you guys go north you guys go east west you guys go north you guys go east west find other buildings and when you find find other buildings and when you find find other buildings and when you find them pce back to this one and so I'd them pce back to this one and so I'd them pce back to this one and so I'd start making a map and I'd make the start making a map and I'd make the start making a map and I'd make the whole uh one piece of graph paper was

whole uh one piece of graph paper was whole uh one piece of graph paper was enough to then we'd bring the machine in enough to then we'd bring the machine in enough to then we'd bring the machine in we'd bring the laser theodoly and get we'd bring the laser theodoly and get we'd bring the laser theodoly and get really accurate information but on that really accurate information but on that really accurate information but on that piece of paper I would write like don't piece of paper I would write like don't piece of paper I would write like don't bring the machine this way there's a bring the machine this way there's a bring the machine this way there's a treeall or stand on top of this building treeall or stand on top of this building treeall or stand on top of this building and you'll see four different buildings and you'll see four different buildings and you'll see four different buildings at once from this one nice and all of at once from this one nice and all of at once from this one nice and all of this is in dense jungle right and the this is in dense jungle right and the this is in dense jungle right and the deeper we got off the road the deeper it deeper we got off the road the deeper it deeper we got off the road the deeper it was sometimes it would clear out but was sometimes it would clear out but was sometimes it would clear out but certain places if it was low it would be certain places if it was low it would be certain places if it was low it would be such thick vegetation and yeah it would such thick vegetation and yeah it would such thick vegetation and yeah it would grow back so fast sometimes we would cut grow back so fast sometimes we would cut grow back so fast sometimes we would cut just uh uh tunnels through tall grass just uh uh tunnels through tall grass just uh uh tunnels through tall grass and we'd come back like 5 days later and and we'd come back like 5 days later and and we'd come back like 5 days later and they were gone yeah like we did we they were gone yeah like we did we they were gone yeah like we did we couldn't even find where our Trails were couldn't even find where our Trails were couldn't even find where our Trails were they would grow back that fast but you they would grow back that fast but you they would grow back that fast but you see the building so you could see right see the building so you could see right see the building so you could see right and that was the fun part I mean and that was the fun part I mean and that was the fun part I mean sometimes it would just be like a little sometimes it would just be like a little sometimes it would just be like a little neighborhood with little low buildings neighborhood with little low buildings neighborhood with little low buildings no bigger than this table but sometimes no bigger than this table but sometimes no bigger than this table but sometimes you know just five more meters in and you know just five more meters in and you know just five more meters in and I'm standing under a pyramid that nobody I'm standing under a pyramid that nobody I'm standing under a pyramid that nobody had ever mapped like wow I've just found had ever mapped like wow I've just found had ever mapped like wow I've just found another one and some days you know on another one and some days you know on another one and some days you know on good days we'd find three pyramids and I good days we'd find three pyramids and I good days we'd find three pyramids and I I I felt uh that's that's such a more I I felt uh that's that's such a more I I felt uh that's that's such a more exciting job than the typical exciting job than the typical exciting job than the typical excavations my buddies were all just you excavations my buddies were all just you excavations my buddies were all just you know in a hole for the whole week in the know in a hole for the whole week in the know in a hole for the whole week in the middle of the city and where I'm dancing middle of the city and where I'm dancing middle of the city and where I'm dancing around through the jungle I could find around through the jungle I could find around through the jungle I could find you know 10 buildings today I might find you know 10 buildings today I might find you know 10 buildings today I might find a pyramid today who knows what's that a pyramid today who knows what's that a pyramid today who knows what's that feel like to find like a pyramid or

feel like to find like a pyramid or feel like to find like a pyramid or buildings that you're one of the only buildings that you're one of the only buildings that you're one of the only humans that are not from That humans that are not from That humans that are not from That civilization to ever see this thing civilization to ever see this thing civilization to ever see this thing what's that what's that feel like I it's what's that what's that feel like I it's what's that what's that feel like I it's it's great I love that feeling I I am it's great I love that feeling I I am it's great I love that feeling I I am you know I'm an explorer at heart um so you know I'm an explorer at heart um so you know I'm an explorer at heart um so finding something like that you know finding something like that you know finding something like that you know when I was uh when I was 25 years old I when I was uh when I was 25 years old I when I was uh when I was 25 years old I I found a whole Maya City mhm I found a whole Maya City mhm I found a whole Maya City mhm uh got to name it its name is Mna it's uh got to name it its name is Mna it's uh got to name it its name is Mna it's off in the basian jungle and that was off in the basian jungle and that was off in the basian jungle and that was just just outrageous I mean it it almost just just outrageous I mean it it almost just just outrageous I mean it it almost that one almost depressed me I was my my that one almost depressed me I was my my that one almost depressed me I was my my entire like I had this great life entire like I had this great life entire like I had this great life ambition that I would find a lost city ambition that I would find a lost city ambition that I would find a lost city MH and then I did it at 25 and I was MH and then I did it at 25 and I was MH and then I did it at 25 and I was like God now what do I do I thought that like God now what do I do I thought that like God now what do I do I thought that was supposed to take me my whole life I was supposed to take me my whole life I was supposed to take me my whole life I actually uh I wrote a bunch of letters actually uh I wrote a bunch of letters actually uh I wrote a bunch of letters to NASA trying to get them to let me be to NASA trying to get them to let me be to NASA trying to get them to let me be the first uh archaeologist on Mars I the first uh archaeologist on Mars I the first uh archaeologist on Mars I never got a single reply back I'm sure never got a single reply back I'm sure never got a single reply back I'm sure I'm on NASA's list is some weirdo um how' you find a Mayan city I weirdo um how' you find a Mayan city I uh I used a topography map of the area uh I used a topography map of the area uh I used a topography map of the area and I played the game if I was a Maya and I played the game if I was a Maya and I played the game if I was a Maya where would my favorite place to live in where would my favorite place to live in where would my favorite place to live in this big area be I I looked for the this big area be I I looked for the this big area be I I looked for the biggest mountain because they call all biggest mountain because they call all biggest mountain because they call all of their pyramids tun Wheats Stone of their pyramids tun Wheats Stone of their pyramids tun Wheats Stone mountains I knew they loved mountains mountains I knew they loved mountains mountains I knew they loved mountains and when I found that mountain there and when I found that mountain there and when I found that mountain there were two others right next to it that were two others right next to it that were two others right next to it that made a triangle and they love those made a triangle and they love those made a triangle and they love those Triads and there were rivers in between

Triads and there were rivers in between Triads and there were rivers in between them and I thought that's it that's them and I thought that's it that's them and I thought that's it that's where I would build the city and I hiked where I would build the city and I hiked where I would build the city and I hiked out there over two seasons with students out there over two seasons with students out there over two seasons with students the other grad students were like he's the other grad students were like he's the other grad students were like he's just having his students just wander in just having his students just wander in just having his students just wander in the jungle all day but I came back with the jungle all day but I came back with the jungle all day but I came back with the city so given that you've looked the city so given that you've looked the city so given that you've looked into the deep past of uh Humanity what into the deep past of uh Humanity what into the deep past of uh Humanity what gives you hope about our future maybe gives you hope about our future maybe gives you hope about our future maybe our deep future of this human our deep future of this human our deep future of this human civilization that's a good one I and I civilization that's a good one I and I civilization that's a good one I and I do have hope I do have hope I I believe do have hope I do have hope I I believe do have hope I do have hope I I believe in the spirit of humankind i i as a in the spirit of humankind i i as a in the spirit of humankind i i as a person who have studied history I kind person who have studied history I kind person who have studied history I kind of feel like history does kind of a sine of feel like history does kind of a sine of feel like history does kind of a sine wave there's highs and there's lows but wave there's highs and there's lows but wave there's highs and there's lows but no matter how low we go we get up again no matter how low we go we get up again no matter how low we go we get up again and and we climb and and we climb and and we climb and I think that Humanity will continue and I think that Humanity will continue and I think that Humanity will continue that we will rise to the challenges now that we will rise to the challenges now that we will rise to the challenges now some of the challenges may be created by some of the challenges may be created by some of the challenges may be created by ourselves as well but we will adapt and ourselves as well but we will adapt and ourselves as well but we will adapt and overcome that's that's what we do yeah overcome that's that's what we do yeah overcome that's that's what we do yeah humans find away right that's that's humans find away right that's that's humans find away right that's that's like uh that's the thing you see with like uh that's the thing you see with like uh that's the thing you see with with history even when the empires with history even when the empires with history even when the empires collapse they uh the humans that come collapse they uh the humans that come collapse they uh the humans that come out of that they pick themselves up and out of that they pick themselves up and out of that they pick themselves up and find another way find another way find another way they build a new and the people I study they build a new and the people I study they build a new and the people I study believe in the cyclical nature of life believe in the cyclical nature of life believe in the cyclical nature of life that you really can't life can't that you really can't life can't that you really can't life can't continue without death being part of the continue without death being part of the continue without death being part of the cycle we get our lows we get our Highs

cycle we get our lows we get our Highs cycle we get our lows we get our Highs but the cycle continues forever I should but the cycle continues forever I should but the cycle continues forever I should mention that you have a lot of great mention that you have a lot of great mention that you have a lot of great lectures uh on the Great Courses but you lectures uh on the Great Courses but you lectures uh on the Great Courses but you have also an amazing podcast RKO Ed if have also an amazing podcast RKO Ed if have also an amazing podcast RKO Ed if people want to listen to it this is a people want to listen to it this is a people want to listen to it this is a tough question but what uh would you tough question but what uh would you tough question but what uh would you recommend what episodes should they recommend what episodes should they recommend what episodes should they listen to what's the ENT that is a tough listen to what's the ENT that is a tough listen to what's the ENT that is a tough question what what is the what is the question what what is the what is the question what what is the what is the sampling you know it's like asking a sampling you know it's like asking a sampling you know it's like asking a chef like what's the best stuff on the chef like what's the best stuff on the chef like what's the best stuff on the menu well Different Strokes for menu well Different Strokes for menu well Different Strokes for different folks you know I do two different folks you know I do two different folks you know I do two different things on that podcast different things on that podcast different things on that podcast sometimes I just teach about cultures sometimes I just teach about cultures sometimes I just teach about cultures that you've never heard about or I I that you've never heard about or I I that you've never heard about or I I love I I start off by saying it's my love I I start off by saying it's my love I I start off by saying it's my podcast and I'll talk about whatever the podcast and I'll talk about whatever the podcast and I'll talk about whatever the heck I want to talk about sometimes I heck I want to talk about sometimes I heck I want to talk about sometimes I talk about really uh specific things talk about really uh specific things talk about really uh specific things like a tool type or an animal type but like a tool type or an animal type but like a tool type or an animal type but my favorite ones have become when I just my favorite ones have become when I just my favorite ones have become when I just tell my stories of my Adventures I've tell my stories of my Adventures I've tell my stories of my Adventures I've got a lot of weird adventure stories and got a lot of weird adventure stories and got a lot of weird adventure stories and uh it's it it's been fun and they've uh it's it it's been fun and they've uh it's it it's been fun and they've been very well received I've got you been very well received I've got you been very well received I've got you know I can put my humor in there and I know I can put my humor in there and I know I can put my humor in there and I can talk about you know the the things can talk about you know the the things can talk about you know the the things that went right the things that went that went right the things that went that went right the things that went wrong the adventures that I had are all wrong the adventures that I had are all wrong the adventures that I had are all part of part of this Aro Ed thing it's part of part of this Aro Ed thing it's part of part of this Aro Ed thing it's and archo Ed's kind of a double on and archo Ed's kind of a double on and archo Ed's kind of a double on Tandra it's me I'm just Ed but it's also Tandra it's me I'm just Ed but it's also Tandra it's me I'm just Ed but it's also education you know what I'm really education you know what I'm really education you know what I'm really trying to do with this too it's trying to do with this too it's trying to do with this too it's specifically the Americas I want to be

specifically the Americas I want to be specifically the Americas I want to be part of The Reawakening that there were part of The Reawakening that there were part of The Reawakening that there were these great civilizations here these great civilizations here these great civilizations here especially North America I I think that especially North America I I think that especially North America I I think that we have a group Amnesia that there was we have a group Amnesia that there was we have a group Amnesia that there was no great civilizations here before no great civilizations here before no great civilizations here before Europe showed up that's simply not true Europe showed up that's simply not true Europe showed up that's simply not true I think it should be part of our history I think it should be part of our history I think it should be part of our history books in fact I have a a program called books in fact I have a a program called books in fact I have a a program called before the before the before the Americas that uh would introduce as part Americas that uh would introduce as part Americas that uh would introduce as part of American History the part before of American History the part before of American History the part before European contact and I think that kids European contact and I think that kids European contact and I think that kids in the K through 12 levels should grow in the K through 12 levels should grow in the K through 12 levels should grow up not being told this fallacy that no up not being told this fallacy that no up not being told this fallacy that no one was here before we showed up in one was here before we showed up in one was here before we showed up in 1492 and one of these days I'm going to 1492 and one of these days I'm going to 1492 and one of these days I'm going to find a funer to help us put together find a funer to help us put together find a funer to help us put together before the Americas and we're going to before the Americas and we're going to before the Americas and we're going to make it part of the curriculum for every make it part of the curriculum for every make it part of the curriculum for every kid in the US to know the full history kid in the US to know the full history kid in the US to know the full history of this country that's a great project of this country that's a great project of this country that's a great project Ed thank you so much thank you for Ed thank you so much thank you for Ed thank you so much thank you for talking today thank you for all the talking today thank you for all the talking today thank you for all the fascinating ideas that you put out into fascinating ideas that you put out into fascinating ideas that you put out into the world and uh I can't wait to hear the world and uh I can't wait to hear the world and uh I can't wait to hear your new course thank you so much Lex it your new course thank you so much Lex it your new course thank you so much Lex it was a real pleasure thanks for listening was a real pleasure thanks for listening was a real pleasure thanks for listening to this conversation with ad Barnhart to to this conversation with ad Barnhart to to this conversation with ad Barnhart to support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from Joseph Joseph Joseph Campbell life is but a mask worn on the Campbell life is but a mask worn on the Campbell life is but a mask worn on the face of death and is death then but face of death and is death then but face of death and is death then but another mask how many can say asks the

another mask how many can say asks the another mask how many can say asks the Aztec poet that there is or is not a Aztec poet that there is or is not a Aztec poet that there is or is not a truth truth truth Beyond thank you for listening and hope Beyond thank you for listening and hope Beyond thank you for listening and hope to see you next time