Aaron Smith-Levin: Scientology | Lex Fridman Podcast #361

if Scientology was just if Scientology was just getting auditing getting auditing getting auditing when you wanted when you wanted when you wanted about the subjects you wanted and you about the subjects you wanted and you about the subjects you wanted and you could take it or leave it that would be could take it or leave it that would be could take it or leave it that would be fine fine fine it's it's the fact that it's part and it's it's the fact that it's part and it's it's the fact that it's part and parcel to this entire organization and parcel to this entire organization and parcel to this entire organization and this entire experience this entire experience this entire experience that has as a part of that experience that has as a part of that experience that has as a part of that experience taking everything from you demanding taking everything from you demanding taking everything from you demanding everything from you controlling who you everything from you controlling who you everything from you controlling who you can speak with can speak with can speak with controlling who you can have controlling who you can have controlling who you can have relationships with who you have to erase relationships with who you have to erase relationships with who you have to erase from your life this is where and it's from your life this is where and it's from your life this is where and it's hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint on this is where Scientology goes wrong on this is where Scientology goes wrong on this is where Scientology goes wrong it's really hard to do that because the it's really hard to do that because the it's really hard to do that because the good parts of Scientology and the bad good parts of Scientology and the bad good parts of Scientology and the bad parts of Scientology parts of Scientology parts of Scientology are all just Scientology the following is a conversation with the following is a conversation with Aaron Smith 11 a former Scientologist Aaron Smith 11 a former Scientologist Aaron Smith 11 a former Scientologist raised in Scientology and have worked in raised in Scientology and have worked in raised in Scientology and have worked in an organization full-time for many years an organization full-time for many years an organization full-time for many years as a staff member and a sea org member as a staff member and a sea org member as a staff member and a sea org member including the job of training including the job of training including the job of training Scientology Auditors today he educates Scientology Auditors today he educates Scientology Auditors today he educates the public about scientology on his the public about scientology on his the public about scientology on his YouTube channel called growing up in YouTube channel called growing up in YouTube channel called growing up in Scientology Scientology Scientology this is Alex Friedman podcast to support this is Alex Friedman podcast to support this is Alex Friedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors in the it please check out our sponsors in the it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's Aaron Smith Levin Aaron Smith Levin Aaron Smith Levin let's do a full overview of Scientology let's do a full overview of Scientology let's do a full overview of Scientology its ideas how it operates how it wields its ideas how it operates how it wields its ideas how it operates how it wields its power and influence and let's start its power and influence and let's start its power and influence and let's start at the very Basics what is Scientology at the very Basics what is Scientology at the very Basics what is Scientology Scientology is a belief system

Scientology is a belief system Scientology is a belief system created by allren Hubbard created by allren Hubbard created by allren Hubbard that does fundamentally believe that we that does fundamentally believe that we that does fundamentally believe that we are all Immortal Spiritual Beings are all Immortal Spiritual Beings are all Immortal Spiritual Beings called phasins called phasins called phasins that we have that we have that we have native god-like potential native god-like potential native god-like potential that there is nothing more powerful in that there is nothing more powerful in that there is nothing more powerful in the universe than a thetan like so the universe than a thetan like so the universe than a thetan like so Godlike is you know quite literal here Godlike is you know quite literal here Godlike is you know quite literal here and that through various and that through various and that through various decisions thetans have made they have decisions thetans have made they have decisions thetans have made they have fallen away from their native Godlike fallen away from their native Godlike fallen away from their native Godlike power power power to uh fallen down to a state where most to uh fallen down to a state where most to uh fallen down to a state where most theins aren't even aware that they are theins aren't even aware that they are theins aren't even aware that they are thetans aren't even aware that they ever thetans aren't even aware that they ever thetans aren't even aware that they ever have lived before or have these powers have lived before or have these powers have lived before or have these powers and that things are now in a state where and that things are now in a state where and that things are now in a state where they're trapped in bodies trapped here they're trapped in bodies trapped here they're trapped in bodies trapped here on Earth on Earth on Earth uh trapped in this prison of a physical uh trapped in this prison of a physical uh trapped in this prison of a physical Universe trapped on this prison of a Universe trapped on this prison of a Universe trapped on this prison of a planet planet planet and that only Scientology can restore and that only Scientology can restore and that only Scientology can restore ethane to its native state are these ethane to its native state are these ethane to its native state are these multiple beings like is there one Satan multiple beings like is there one Satan multiple beings like is there one Satan inside of me that's trapped in this inside of me that's trapped in this inside of me that's trapped in this prison well the thing would be you prison well the thing would be you prison well the thing would be you the thing would be me the thetan is you the thing would be me the thetan is you the thing would be me the thetan is you but um presumably Limited in some but um presumably Limited in some but um presumably Limited in some fundamental way so this statement that fundamental way so this statement that fundamental way so this statement that is me is is limited so there's like is me is is limited so there's like is me is is limited so there's like eight billion Satan's on the planet eight billion Satan's on the planet eight billion Satan's on the planet there's one primary thing in animating there's one primary thing in animating there's one primary thing in animating each body each body each body later in Scientology you learn there's later in Scientology you learn there's later in Scientology you learn there's actually like tens of thousands or actually like tens of thousands or actually like tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of like sick hundreds of thousands of like sick hundreds of thousands of like sick unconscious half dead faith in stuck to

unconscious half dead faith in stuck to unconscious half dead faith in stuck to you that are now an additional cause of you that are now an additional cause of you that are now an additional cause of problems for you sure but fundamentally problems for you sure but fundamentally problems for you sure but fundamentally at the lower levels at the lower levels at the lower levels the non-confidential levels there's just the non-confidential levels there's just the non-confidential levels there's just one thing in per body one thing in per body one thing in per body well I mean it's an interesting idea I well I mean it's an interesting idea I well I mean it's an interesting idea I just would like to kind of explore just would like to kind of explore just would like to kind of explore the philosophy of that so there's a the philosophy of that so there's a the philosophy of that so there's a being that's all powerful that's being that's all powerful that's being that's all powerful that's immortal immortal immortal and its projectionist manifestation on and its projectionist manifestation on and its projectionist manifestation on this Earth is this Earth is this Earth is fundamentally Limited fundamentally Limited fundamentally Limited and you're trying to uh the process of and you're trying to uh the process of and you're trying to uh the process of Scientology is the process of letting go Scientology is the process of letting go Scientology is the process of letting go of those limitations of those limitations of those limitations you know that's an interesting idea I you know that's an interesting idea I you know that's an interesting idea I mean a lot of religions have this kind mean a lot of religions have this kind mean a lot of religions have this kind of idea that there's a not just of idea that there's a not just of idea that there's a not just religions but like we have the capacity religions but like we have the capacity religions but like we have the capacity as human beings to do to achieve as human beings to do to achieve as human beings to do to achieve greatness in all kinds of ways yeah and greatness in all kinds of ways yeah and greatness in all kinds of ways yeah and that's the question we have with our that's the question we have with our that's the question we have with our cognitive abilities we start with the cognitive abilities we start with the cognitive abilities we start with the embryo and build up and into this embryo and build up and into this embryo and build up and into this organism and like this world of organism and like this world of organism and like this world of opportunities before us what are we opportunities before us what are we opportunities before us what are we capable of and the idea that we're capable of and the idea that we're capable of and the idea that we're capable of almost anything is a really capable of almost anything is a really capable of almost anything is a really powerful one and there's a lot of powerful one and there's a lot of powerful one and there's a lot of religions there's a lot of philosophies religions there's a lot of philosophies religions there's a lot of philosophies there's a lot of advice self-help that there's a lot of advice self-help that there's a lot of advice self-help that kind of explores those ideas and so in kind of explores those ideas and so in kind of explores those ideas and so in it seems like with Scientology this the it seems like with Scientology this the it seems like with Scientology this the application of these religious application of these religious application of these religious philosophy means that there's we're philosophy means that there's we're philosophy means that there's we're limited and we have to break through limited and we have to break through limited and we have to break through those limitations and there's a process those limitations and there's a process those limitations and there's a process to break through those limitations that to break through those limitations that to break through those limitations that would be correct so what can make it would be correct so what can make it would be correct so what can make it challenging to challenging to challenging to adequately and completely describe adequately and completely describe adequately and completely describe Scientology in the beginning is what Scientology in the beginning is what Scientology in the beginning is what scientologists believe actually changes

scientologists believe actually changes scientologists believe actually changes as they progress further into or further as they progress further into or further as they progress further into or further up in Scientology up in Scientology up in Scientology so so so um the explanation is I've given it is um the explanation is I've given it is um the explanation is I've given it is pretty consistent with what you would pretty consistent with what you would pretty consistent with what you would get at the lowest levels right get at the lowest levels right get at the lowest levels right urethane I'm a thetan everyone's a urethane I'm a thetan everyone's a urethane I'm a thetan everyone's a thetan thetan thetan and we have a reactive mind and we have a reactive mind and we have a reactive mind I'll run Hubbard would say the reactive I'll run Hubbard would say the reactive I'll run Hubbard would say the reactive mind is a collection of uh these mind is a collection of uh these mind is a collection of uh these recordings mental recordings of any recordings mental recordings of any recordings mental recordings of any moments of pain and unconsciousness moments of pain and unconsciousness moments of pain and unconsciousness you've ever had in your life it's like you've ever had in your life it's like you've ever had in your life it's like the subconscious mind the subconscious mind the subconscious mind uh it's always recording in moments of uh it's always recording in moments of uh it's always recording in moments of pain and unconsciousness and that these pain and unconsciousness and that these pain and unconsciousness and that these are called these recordings are Ron are called these recordings are Ron are called these recordings are Ron Hubbard called them engrams now when L Hubbard called them engrams now when L Hubbard called them engrams now when L Ron Hubbard first wrote Dianetics in Ron Hubbard first wrote Dianetics in Ron Hubbard first wrote Dianetics in 1950 this was before Scientology came 1950 this was before Scientology came 1950 this was before Scientology came along a couple years later right so in along a couple years later right so in along a couple years later right so in 1950 when he wrote Dianetics 1950 when he wrote Dianetics 1950 when he wrote Dianetics it wasn't a spiritual Endeavor it was it wasn't a spiritual Endeavor it was it wasn't a spiritual Endeavor it was supposed to be a mental health a science supposed to be a mental health a science supposed to be a mental health a science of Mental Health of Mental Health of Mental Health so so so as of that time the earliest engram you as of that time the earliest engram you as of that time the earliest engram you could have was the incident of birth could have was the incident of birth could have was the incident of birth being born was an engram being born was an engram being born was an engram and technically in Dianetics they said and technically in Dianetics they said and technically in Dianetics they said you could have prenatal n grams like you could have prenatal n grams like you could have prenatal n grams like when you're still in the womb but there when you're still in the womb but there when you're still in the womb but there was no concept of past lives as of 1950 was no concept of past lives as of 1950 was no concept of past lives as of 1950 version of Dianetics right version of Dianetics right version of Dianetics right and so the idea there was that and so the idea there was that and so the idea there was that uh the reactive mind is essentially a uh the reactive mind is essentially a uh the reactive mind is essentially a stimulus response mechanism stimulus response mechanism stimulus response mechanism uh created through Evolution millions of uh created through Evolution millions of uh created through Evolution millions of years ago to protect the individual from

years ago to protect the individual from years ago to protect the individual from things that would harm them in other things that would harm them in other things that would harm them in other words things that would bring about pain words things that would bring about pain words things that would bring about pain and unconsciousness so you have these and unconsciousness so you have these and unconsciousness so you have these recordings of things that hurt you recordings of things that hurt you recordings of things that hurt you created pain and unconsciousness and in created pain and unconsciousness and in created pain and unconsciousness and in present time these things will react present time these things will react present time these things will react upon you in a way to cause you to avoid upon you in a way to cause you to avoid upon you in a way to cause you to avoid similar things similar things similar things reacting upon you in a subconscious reacting upon you in a subconscious reacting upon you in a subconscious unconscious way so the reactive mind unconscious way so the reactive mind unconscious way so the reactive mind protects you protects you protects you from the trauma that is inside your from the trauma that is inside your from the trauma that is inside your subconscious mind yes and the idea is subconscious mind yes and the idea is subconscious mind yes and the idea is we've now as human beings evolve to a we've now as human beings evolve to a we've now as human beings evolve to a state where it no longer serves us state where it no longer serves us state where it no longer serves us beneficially it only serves us beneficially it only serves us beneficially it only serves us negatively negatively negatively this was Hubbard's Theory and he says this was Hubbard's Theory and he says this was Hubbard's Theory and he says you can get rid of these engrams by you you can get rid of these engrams by you you can get rid of these engrams by you know basically recalling them and going know basically recalling them and going know basically recalling them and going over them again and again using over them again and again using over them again and again using Dianetics auditing therapy and if you Dianetics auditing therapy and if you Dianetics auditing therapy and if you get back to the moment of birth and get back to the moment of birth and get back to the moment of birth and erase the earliest engram all the other erase the earliest engram all the other erase the earliest engram all the other subsequent engrams on the Chain would subsequent engrams on the Chain would subsequent engrams on the Chain would vanish oh nice so there's a change vanish oh nice so there's a change vanish oh nice so there's a change earlier similar earlier similar earlier earlier similar earlier similar earlier earlier similar earlier similar earlier similar early similar okay similar early similar okay similar early similar okay so that gives you a pretty good so that gives you a pretty good so that gives you a pretty good understanding of how elrond Hubbard understanding of how elrond Hubbard understanding of how elrond Hubbard thought of the mind because that carries thought of the mind because that carries thought of the mind because that carries on has applicability later on in on has applicability later on in on has applicability later on in Scientology I mean that's a pretty Scientology I mean that's a pretty Scientology I mean that's a pretty powerful model of the mind I mean Freud powerful model of the mind I mean Freud powerful model of the mind I mean Freud had similar conceptions that a lot of had similar conceptions that a lot of had similar conceptions that a lot of our traumas are grounded in our traumas are grounded in our traumas are grounded in sort of uh sort of uh sort of uh poor formulation of sexuality or poor formulation of sexuality or poor formulation of sexuality or imperfect formulation of sexuality no imperfect formulation of sexuality no imperfect formulation of sexuality no childhood something like this and then childhood something like this and then childhood something like this and then we're trying to figure out the puzzle we're trying to figure out the puzzle we're trying to figure out the puzzle whatever we formed in early childhood whatever we formed in early childhood whatever we formed in early childhood right and it's similar similar kind of

right and it's similar similar kind of right and it's similar similar kind of it is similar that's probably what it is similar that's probably what it is similar that's probably what Hubbard took it from Hubbard took it from Hubbard took it from um in the early days of Dianetics before um in the early days of Dianetics before um in the early days of Dianetics before he decided Psychiatry was evil uh he he decided Psychiatry was evil uh he he decided Psychiatry was evil uh he actually credited Sigmund Freud with actually credited Sigmund Freud with actually credited Sigmund Freud with some of the shoulders he was standing on some of the shoulders he was standing on some of the shoulders he was standing on in writing Dianetics so the so he still in writing Dianetics so the so he still in writing Dianetics so the so he still admired Psychiatry at that time so admired Psychiatry at that time so admired Psychiatry at that time so that's an interesting moment of that's an interesting moment of that's an interesting moment of Dianetics so what else you mentioned Dianetics so what else you mentioned Dianetics so what else you mentioned Dynex auditing was there too so if we Dynex auditing was there too so if we Dynex auditing was there too so if we just before Scientology what what are just before Scientology what what are just before Scientology what what are the ideas that formed what we know as the ideas that formed what we know as the ideas that formed what we know as Dianetics as I've just described that is Dianetics as I've just described that is Dianetics as I've just described that is the fundamental at least that is pretty the fundamental at least that is pretty the fundamental at least that is pretty much the nuts and bolts of dinetics was much the nuts and bolts of dinetics was much the nuts and bolts of dinetics was it applied was it applied often oh yeah it applied was it applied often oh yeah it applied was it applied often oh yeah no that's what diet next in the early no that's what diet next in the early no that's what diet next in the early days was all about was just auditing days was all about was just auditing days was all about was just auditing auditing is the process of the auditing is the process of the auditing is the process of the one-on-one counseling recall a moment of one-on-one counseling recall a moment of one-on-one counseling recall a moment of pain and unconsciousness run through the pain and unconsciousness run through the pain and unconsciousness run through the engram over and over and over again find engram over and over and over again find engram over and over and over again find something earlier similar that is something earlier similar that is something earlier similar that is dianetics auditing one of the main dianetics auditing one of the main dianetics auditing one of the main things that changed with Scientology is things that changed with Scientology is things that changed with Scientology is that birth or prenatal ingrams were no that birth or prenatal ingrams were no that birth or prenatal ingrams were no longer the earliest engrams on the Chain longer the earliest engrams on the Chain longer the earliest engrams on the Chain yeah the idea is you have to get the yeah the idea is you have to get the yeah the idea is you have to get the earliest engram on the chain for the earliest engram on the chain for the earliest engram on the chain for the later ones to blow which is a race later ones to blow which is a race later ones to blow which is a race and so but all of a sudden now with the and so but all of a sudden now with the and so but all of a sudden now with the uh addition of an immortal spiritual uh addition of an immortal spiritual uh addition of an immortal spiritual being into the equation well now the being into the equation well now the being into the equation well now the earliest incident could be trillions of earliest incident could be trillions of earliest incident could be trillions of years ago in other galaxies and years ago in other galaxies and years ago in other galaxies and universes other universes so before the universes other universes so before the universes other universes so before the origin of this universe yes is there a origin of this universe yes is there a origin of this universe yes is there a model of physics integrated in any of model of physics integrated in any of model of physics integrated in any of this no this no this no the model is you have the physical the model is you have the physical the model is you have the physical universe universe universe and then above that you have the Theta and then above that you have the Theta and then above that you have the Theta universe so we use the word thing universe so we use the word thing universe so we use the word thing earlier so in Scientology let's use word earlier so in Scientology let's use word earlier so in Scientology let's use word Theta

Theta Theta I don't know theta's just basically I don't know theta's just basically I don't know theta's just basically thetan power Satan's collectively thetan power Satan's collectively thetan power Satan's collectively so Hubbard would say you have the Theta so Hubbard would say you have the Theta so Hubbard would say you have the Theta Universe which is senior to the physical Universe which is senior to the physical Universe which is senior to the physical universe and creates the physical universe and creates the physical universe and creates the physical universe and remember I said I said universe and remember I said I said universe and remember I said I said native god-like potentials so we're not native god-like potentials so we're not native god-like potentials so we're not talking about the God who created the talking about the God who created the talking about the God who created the Earth we're just like scientologists Earth we're just like scientologists Earth we're just like scientologists don't believe in a God but we'll get don't believe in a God but we'll get don't believe in a God but we'll get into that later into that later into that later uh we're talking about CR just creating uh we're talking about CR just creating uh we're talking about CR just creating universes like just think like Matrix universes like just think like Matrix universes like just think like Matrix like just when I say creating a universe like just when I say creating a universe like just when I say creating a universe essentially just creating different essentially just creating different essentially just creating different things simulations things simulations things simulations but it sounds like a little bit more but it sounds like a little bit more but it sounds like a little bit more like the ideas of Plato which is there's like the ideas of Plato which is there's like the ideas of Plato which is there's these platonic forms there's abstract these platonic forms there's abstract these platonic forms there's abstract forms that are forms that are forms that are bigger more General than our particular bigger more General than our particular bigger more General than our particular reality here and those forms are used to reality here and those forms are used to reality here and those forms are used to construct the reality well I grew up in construct the reality well I grew up in construct the reality well I grew up in a call so I'm not familiar with the a call so I'm not familiar with the a call so I'm not familiar with the works of Plato works of Plato works of Plato [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] you can't use that as an excuse for you can't use that as an excuse for you can't use that as an excuse for everything everything everything I would like to you know non-jokingly I would like to you know non-jokingly I would like to you know non-jokingly yeah Steel Man the case because a lot of yeah Steel Man the case because a lot of yeah Steel Man the case because a lot of philosophies a lot of religions a lot philosophies a lot of religions a lot philosophies a lot of religions a lot even scientific endeavors even scientific endeavors even scientific endeavors are a little bit full of uncertainty you are a little bit full of uncertainty you are a little bit full of uncertainty you can call it bullshit but they're you're can call it bullshit but they're you're can call it bullshit but they're you're on on sturdy ground because we're on on sturdy ground because we're on on sturdy ground because we're surrounded by mystery and you have to surrounded by mystery and you have to surrounded by mystery and you have to take these ideas take these ideas take these ideas somewhat seriously and see where those somewhat seriously and see where those somewhat seriously and see where those ideas go wrong this happens with ideas go wrong this happens with ideas go wrong this happens with Communism this happens with capitalism Communism this happens with capitalism Communism this happens with capitalism these ideas sound beautiful in their these ideas sound beautiful in their these ideas sound beautiful in their ideal forms and then they somehow go ideal forms and then they somehow go ideal forms and then they somehow go wrong and some go more wrong than others wrong and some go more wrong than others wrong and some go more wrong than others and so I don't think sort of it's easy

and so I don't think sort of it's easy and so I don't think sort of it's easy to to to sort of caricature and make fun of the sort of caricature and make fun of the sort of caricature and make fun of the ideas I think if we take them seriously ideas I think if we take them seriously ideas I think if we take them seriously you'll start to understand like when you'll start to understand like when you'll start to understand like when you're in it it was serious uh it can be you're in it it was serious uh it can be you're in it it was serious uh it can be very convincing it's you know the the very convincing it's you know the the very convincing it's you know the the devil is going to be a charismatic devil is going to be a charismatic devil is going to be a charismatic person he's not going to be a caricature person he's not going to be a caricature person he's not going to be a caricature of ridiculous person so that that helps of ridiculous person so that that helps of ridiculous person so that that helps us understand which ideas us understand which ideas us understand which ideas uh will sound appealing but will become uh will sound appealing but will become uh will sound appealing but will become dangerous I totally agree in fact it's dangerous I totally agree in fact it's dangerous I totally agree in fact it's one of the one of the one of the thrusts uh I have on my channel is thrusts uh I have on my channel is thrusts uh I have on my channel is wanting to talk about scientology in a wanting to talk about scientology in a wanting to talk about scientology in a way that would actually resonate with way that would actually resonate with way that would actually resonate with current scientologists not just resonate current scientologists not just resonate current scientologists not just resonate with former scientologists I want people with former scientologists I want people with former scientologists I want people who are still in to be able to hear how who are still in to be able to hear how who are still in to be able to hear how I talk about it and go wow he's being I talk about it and go wow he's being I talk about it and go wow he's being really fair and really accurate he's not really fair and really accurate he's not really fair and really accurate he's not just a hater you know what I mean if you just a hater you know what I mean if you just a hater you know what I mean if you look at the you know let's take one of look at the you know let's take one of look at the you know let's take one of the worst places on Earth is North Korea the worst places on Earth is North Korea the worst places on Earth is North Korea uh you have Kim Jong-un and the reality uh you have Kim Jong-un and the reality uh you have Kim Jong-un and the reality is there's a lot of citizens of that is there's a lot of citizens of that is there's a lot of citizens of that nation that deeply love the leader nation that deeply love the leader nation that deeply love the leader because they've grew up in that way and because they've grew up in that way and because they've grew up in that way and you I mean through fear through all you I mean through fear through all you I mean through fear through all kinds of manipulation through propaganda kinds of manipulation through propaganda kinds of manipulation through propaganda and so on they're not allowed to love and so on they're not allowed to love and so on they're not allowed to love members of their own family they're not members of their own family they're not members of their own family they're not allowed to have romantic love they're allowed to have romantic love they're allowed to have romantic love they're only allowed to have love for the leader only allowed to have love for the leader only allowed to have love for the leader and to reach those people you have to and to reach those people you have to and to reach those people you have to empathize with the fact that in their empathize with the fact that in their empathize with the fact that in their eyes in some sense this is a great man eyes in some sense this is a great man eyes in some sense this is a great man this is a god a Messianic figure you this is a god a Messianic figure you this is a god a Messianic figure you can't just make fun of the can't just make fun of the can't just make fun of the Ridiculousness of the situation that Ridiculousness of the situation that Ridiculousness of the situation that this pudgy person Waltzing around this pudgy person Waltzing around this pudgy person Waltzing around creating propaganda like how is this a

creating propaganda like how is this a creating propaganda like how is this a funny haircut with a funny haircut like funny haircut with a funny haircut like funny haircut with a funny haircut like it's so easy and Hitler too to make fun it's so easy and Hitler too to make fun it's so easy and Hitler too to make fun of to make a caricature of the person of to make a caricature of the person of to make a caricature of the person but this is a real person a real person but this is a real person a real person but this is a real person a real person that influenced the minds of millions of that influenced the minds of millions of that influenced the minds of millions of people in the case of Hitler uh you know people in the case of Hitler uh you know people in the case of Hitler uh you know tens of millions of people and and tens of millions of people and and tens of millions of people and and created a huge amount of suffering not created a huge amount of suffering not created a huge amount of suffering not because of because of because of um the caricature version but because he um the caricature version but because he um the caricature version but because he was a charismatic leader he was somebody was a charismatic leader he was somebody was a charismatic leader he was somebody that people deeply deeply loved and that that people deeply deeply loved and that that people deeply deeply loved and that just over time I mean with the the abuse just over time I mean with the the abuse just over time I mean with the the abuse of any kind of ideology this this of any kind of ideology this this of any kind of ideology this this happens over and over and so yeah it's happens over and over and so yeah it's happens over and over and so yeah it's it's interesting because Scientology is it's interesting because Scientology is it's interesting because Scientology is so close to the so close to the so close to the uh to to the core of what is America uh to to the core of what is America uh to to the core of what is America because so many Americans are involved because so many Americans are involved because so many Americans are involved with it so it's interesting to study the with it so it's interesting to study the with it so it's interesting to study the the Beauty and the power of the idea is the Beauty and the power of the idea is the Beauty and the power of the idea is that underlie it and where things go that underlie it and where things go that underlie it and where things go wrong yeah wrong yeah wrong yeah and I'll just say it's interesting to and I'll just say it's interesting to and I'll just say it's interesting to know you would never get a know you would never get a know you would never get a representative of the Church of representative of the Church of representative of the Church of Scientology to sit down and have a Scientology to sit down and have a Scientology to sit down and have a conversation with you and even be as conversation with you and even be as conversation with you and even be as fair and accurate about scientology as fair and accurate about scientology as fair and accurate about scientology as I'm going to be which is which is I'm going to be which is which is I'm going to be which is which is noteworthy do you honestly deeply noteworthy do you honestly deeply noteworthy do you honestly deeply believe that's the case there's not believe that's the case there's not believe that's the case there's not going to be a high level official that going to be a high level official that going to be a high level official that would sit down for a conversation would sit down for a conversation would sit down for a conversation no I disagree with you I hope you're no I disagree with you I hope you're no I disagree with you I hope you're right because I think that given the right because I think that given the right because I think that given the current dynamics of what's Happening current dynamics of what's Happening current dynamics of what's Happening I think in order to say from their I think in order to say from their I think in order to say from their perspective in order to save the the perspective in order to save the the perspective in order to save the the Church of Scientology they have to uh be Church of Scientology they have to uh be Church of Scientology they have to uh be transparent and authentic basically

transparent and authentic basically transparent and authentic basically steal men their case but better you steal men their case but better you steal men their case but better you would think so would think so would think so well we'll talk about the other ways you well we'll talk about the other ways you well we'll talk about the other ways you could do that which is the manipulation could do that which is the manipulation could do that which is the manipulation to propaganda through control media and to propaganda through control media and to propaganda through control media and all that kind of stuff they paint all that kind of stuff they paint all that kind of stuff they paint themselves into a corner of not being themselves into a corner of not being themselves into a corner of not being able to send a representative out into able to send a representative out into able to send a representative out into the world to speak honestly about it the world to speak honestly about it the world to speak honestly about it because you're literally not allowed to because you're literally not allowed to because you're literally not allowed to so when faced you know if you're just so when faced you know if you're just so when faced you know if you're just sitting down with an entertainment sitting down with an entertainment sitting down with an entertainment journalist a representative might be journalist a representative might be journalist a representative might be able to fudge their way through an able to fudge their way through an able to fudge their way through an interview but sitting down for a long interview but sitting down for a long interview but sitting down for a long Format Interview with someone who is Format Interview with someone who is Format Interview with someone who is going to ask them about Xenu and the going to ask them about Xenu and the going to ask them about Xenu and the body fatens and Leah Remini and Lisa body fatens and Leah Remini and Lisa body fatens and Leah Remini and Lisa McPherson that's a no-go zone so so I'm McPherson that's a no-go zone so so I'm McPherson that's a no-go zone so so I'm representing why it will never happen representing why it will never happen representing why it will never happen but shit I would I would tune in for but shit I would I would tune in for but shit I would I would tune in for that interview I mean I hope you do get that interview I mean I hope you do get that interview I mean I hope you do get someone you don't think David miscavage someone you don't think David miscavage someone you don't think David miscavage was the dolphin interview was the dolphin interview was the dolphin interview I would love to be wrong you know in I would love to be wrong you know in I would love to be wrong you know in general journalists in these kinds of general journalists in these kinds of general journalists in these kinds of situations can be situations can be situations can be um um um can attack can attack can attack in a way that doesn't empathize and in a way that doesn't empathize and in a way that doesn't empathize and doesn't come from a place of deep doesn't come from a place of deep doesn't come from a place of deep knowledge and understanding and I think knowledge and understanding and I think knowledge and understanding and I think it's possible to have serious it's possible to have serious it's possible to have serious conversations with people like that in conversations with people like that in conversations with people like that in an empathetic way but it's also in a an empathetic way but it's also in a an empathetic way but it's also in a challenging way I think there's a huge challenging way I think there's a huge challenging way I think there's a huge amount of trust required and obviously amount of trust required and obviously amount of trust required and obviously for us a very secretive organization the for us a very secretive organization the for us a very secretive organization the amount of trust yes might be too much amount of trust yes might be too much amount of trust yes might be too much required anyone over there if they've required anyone over there if they've required anyone over there if they've done their homework knows you're going done their homework knows you're going done their homework knows you're going to be as Fair as anyone in the world is to be as Fair as anyone in the world is to be as Fair as anyone in the world is going to be going to be going to be and yet they're simply things they're and yet they're simply things they're and yet they're simply things they're not allowed to talk about and they're not allowed to talk about and they're not allowed to talk about and they're not even allowed to say I'm not allowed

not even allowed to say I'm not allowed not even allowed to say I'm not allowed to talk about it so that's a fundamental to talk about it so that's a fundamental to talk about it so that's a fundamental part of the Church of Scientology is the part of the Church of Scientology is the part of the Church of Scientology is the secrecy yeah secrecy yeah secrecy yeah so that's what you're trained as you go so that's what you're trained as you go so that's what you're trained as you go up through the ranks as secrecy Secrets up through the ranks as secrecy Secrets up through the ranks as secrecy Secrets it's not even a matter of training it's it's not even a matter of training it's it's not even a matter of training it's that there's an entire the entire upper that there's an entire the entire upper that there's an entire the entire upper half of scientology's bridge is simply half of scientology's bridge is simply half of scientology's bridge is simply confidential I mean and I never even did confidential I mean and I never even did confidential I mean and I never even did those levels when I was in Scientology I those levels when I was in Scientology I those levels when I was in Scientology I didn't learn what scientologists didn't learn what scientologists didn't learn what scientologists actually believe on those upper levels actually believe on those upper levels actually believe on those upper levels until after I get out of Scientology and until after I get out of Scientology and until after I get out of Scientology and I was freaking born and raised in it I was freaking born and raised in it I was freaking born and raised in it let's go there let's go to a personal let's go there let's go to a personal let's go there let's go to a personal story so you've spent 30 years in story so you've spent 30 years in story so you've spent 30 years in Scientology yeah I was four years old Scientology yeah I was four years old Scientology yeah I was four years old when my mom got in and then about seven when my mom got in and then about seven when my mom got in and then about seven years ago I got out yeah and you're on years ago I got out yeah and you're on years ago I got out yeah and you're on what YouTube channel now and you're an what YouTube channel now and you're an what YouTube channel now and you're an educator so I was four years old when my educator so I was four years old when my educator so I was four years old when my mom got introduced to Scientology and mom got introduced to Scientology and mom got introduced to Scientology and she got in really fast really quick she got in really fast really quick she got in really fast really quick um so but I was 12 years old when I was um so but I was 12 years old when I was um so but I was 12 years old when I was taken out of school and started taken out of school and started taken out of school and started officially full-time working for officially full-time working for officially full-time working for Scientology okay so Scientology okay so Scientology okay so um in various capacities I worked for um in various capacities I worked for um in various capacities I worked for them from the ages of 12 to the age of them from the ages of 12 to the age of them from the ages of 12 to the age of 26. yeah okay so and then I was 34 when 26. yeah okay so and then I was 34 when 26. yeah okay so and then I was 34 when I officially parted ways with I officially parted ways with I officially parted ways with Scientology Scientology Scientology which was really more them officially which was really more them officially which was really more them officially parting ways with me but we can get into parting ways with me but we can get into parting ways with me but we can get into all that later that's just kind of how all that later that's just kind of how all that later that's just kind of how Scientology does it and what do you do Scientology does it and what do you do Scientology does it and what do you do now in terms of Scientology so now I run now in terms of Scientology so now I run now in terms of Scientology so now I run growing up in Scientology the YouTube growing up in Scientology the YouTube growing up in Scientology the YouTube channel but what I primarily do is I channel but what I primarily do is I channel but what I primarily do is I help run an organization that helps help run an organization that helps help run an organization that helps people who are escaping from Scientology people who are escaping from Scientology people who are escaping from Scientology I'm the vice president of the aftermath I'm the vice president of the aftermath I'm the vice president of the aftermath Foundation Foundation Foundation and we created the foundation after the

and we created the foundation after the and we created the foundation after the television show Leah Remini Scientology television show Leah Remini Scientology television show Leah Remini Scientology in the aftermath in the aftermath in the aftermath and there was such an outpouring of and there was such an outpouring of and there was such an outpouring of support from non-scientologists all over support from non-scientologists all over support from non-scientologists all over the world the world the world what can we do to help people leave what can we do to help people leave what can we do to help people leave Scientology that we decided to create a Scientology that we decided to create a Scientology that we decided to create a foundation and it's been incredibly foundation and it's been incredibly foundation and it's been incredibly successful we've helped people escape successful we've helped people escape successful we've helped people escape from all regions and echelons of from all regions and echelons of from all regions and echelons of Scientology we we've accomplished what Scientology we we've accomplished what Scientology we we've accomplished what we've accomplished is far beyond what we we've accomplished is far beyond what we we've accomplished is far beyond what we actually envisioned would be possible actually envisioned would be possible actually envisioned would be possible it's been a huge success so we'll talk it's been a huge success so we'll talk it's been a huge success so we'll talk about the the negative aspect the abuses about the the negative aspect the abuses about the the negative aspect the abuses of power but let's just explore the of power but let's just explore the of power but let's just explore the ideas a little bit more ideas a little bit more ideas a little bit more um so the the public facing three um so the the public facing three um so the the public facing three fundamental truths of fundamental truths of fundamental truths of Scientology maybe correct me if I'm Scientology maybe correct me if I'm Scientology maybe correct me if I'm wrong a man is an immortal spiritual wrong a man is an immortal spiritual wrong a man is an immortal spiritual being like with said with Satan's his being like with said with Satan's his being like with said with Satan's his experience extends well beyond a single experience extends well beyond a single experience extends well beyond a single lifetime so infinite memory backwards lifetime so infinite memory backwards lifetime so infinite memory backwards his capabilities are unlimited even if his capabilities are unlimited even if his capabilities are unlimited even if not presently realized not presently realized not presently realized the capabilities are unlimited yeah so the capabilities are unlimited yeah so the capabilities are unlimited yeah so that when I say god-like I really just that when I say god-like I really just that when I say god-like I really just mean you know Thanos like Unlimited mean you know Thanos like Unlimited mean you know Thanos like Unlimited scientologists don't believe in a God so scientologists don't believe in a God so scientologists don't believe in a God so when I say God like I just mean the most when I say God like I just mean the most when I say God like I just mean the most powerful entity the Creator the the powerful entity the Creator the the powerful entity the Creator the the prime mover unmoved except we are all prime mover unmoved except we are all prime mover unmoved except we are all that you know a thing in definition in that you know a thing in definition in that you know a thing in definition in Scientology thing has no position in Scientology thing has no position in Scientology thing has no position in space or time ethane does not actually space or time ethane does not actually space or time ethane does not actually exist in the physical Universe it might exist in the physical Universe it might exist in the physical Universe it might choose to locate itself in the physical choose to locate itself in the physical choose to locate itself in the physical Universe right and then forget that it Universe right and then forget that it Universe right and then forget that it made that decision and then sort of get made that decision and then sort of get made that decision and then sort of get caught and trapped in the physical

caught and trapped in the physical caught and trapped in the physical universe but that once the thing is uh universe but that once the thing is uh universe but that once the thing is uh restored to its native powers restored to its native powers restored to its native powers um everything you see here in the um everything you see here in the um everything you see here in the physical universe is just a thing physical universe is just a thing physical universe is just a thing playing a game playing a game playing a game like later we are in a simulation right like later we are in a simulation right like later we are in a simulation right now of something so like physics doesn't now of something so like physics doesn't now of something so like physics doesn't have to make sense when we're talking have to make sense when we're talking have to make sense when we're talking about it this way like technically about it this way like technically about it this way like technically urethane imatha and we're here but urethane imatha and we're here but urethane imatha and we're here but because this could also all just be because this could also all just be because this could also all just be another thing's game so Satan's all the another thing's game so Satan's all the another thing's game so Satan's all the way down yeah it's just Dayton's way down yeah it's just Dayton's way down yeah it's just Dayton's everywhere things it all comes down to everywhere things it all comes down to everywhere things it all comes down to the thing is there an idea of a God the thing is there an idea of a God the thing is there an idea of a God because I've read there's a kind of because I've read there's a kind of because I've read there's a kind of there is a sense of a Supreme Being there is a sense of a Supreme Being there is a sense of a Supreme Being because that basically the thetan that's because that basically the thetan that's because that basically the thetan that's at the core at the bottom of it all yes at the core at the bottom of it all yes at the core at the bottom of it all yes not not defined undefined correct not not defined undefined correct not not defined undefined correct Scientology has this concept of the Scientology has this concept of the Scientology has this concept of the Dynamics all right Hubbard breaks life Dynamics all right Hubbard breaks life Dynamics all right Hubbard breaks life into eight different Dynamics and the a into eight different Dynamics and the a into eight different Dynamics and the a dynamic meaning a Thrust towards dynamic meaning a Thrust towards dynamic meaning a Thrust towards survival so he would say you know first survival so he would say you know first survival so he would say you know first Dynamic is you yourself second Dynamic Dynamic is you yourself second Dynamic Dynamic is you yourself second Dynamic is your family third Dynamic is any is your family third Dynamic is any is your family third Dynamic is any other group that you're a part of other other group that you're a part of other other group that you're a part of other than your family fourth Dynamic is all than your family fourth Dynamic is all than your family fourth Dynamic is all humankind uh the fifth Dynamic is plant humankind uh the fifth Dynamic is plant humankind uh the fifth Dynamic is plant and animal life all non-human life uh and animal life all non-human life uh and animal life all non-human life uh sixth Dynamic is the physical world sixth Dynamic is the physical world sixth Dynamic is the physical world seventh Dynamic is sort of like seventh Dynamic is sort of like seventh Dynamic is sort of like spirituality collectively spirituality collectively spirituality collectively and the eighth Dynamic L Ron Hubbard and the eighth Dynamic L Ron Hubbard and the eighth Dynamic L Ron Hubbard says Scientology doesn't deal with the says Scientology doesn't deal with the says Scientology doesn't deal with the eighth Dynamic but we recognize that eighth Dynamic but we recognize that eighth Dynamic but we recognize that people have this idea of a Supreme Being people have this idea of a Supreme Being people have this idea of a Supreme Being and so Scientology says you can call the and so Scientology says you can call the and so Scientology says you can call the eighth Dynamic the Supreme Being Dynamic eighth Dynamic the Supreme Being Dynamic eighth Dynamic the Supreme Being Dynamic but we call it Infinity just the allness but we call it Infinity just the allness but we call it Infinity just the allness of everything without having to Define

of everything without having to Define of everything without having to Define it and then they sort of do a little it and then they sort of do a little it and then they sort of do a little dance and they're like Scientology the dance and they're like Scientology the dance and they're like Scientology the purpose of Scientology is to get you to purpose of Scientology is to get you to purpose of Scientology is to get you to the point where you have your own the point where you have your own the point where you have your own understandings or realizations about the understandings or realizations about the understandings or realizations about the nature of the eighth Dynamic we don't nature of the eighth Dynamic we don't nature of the eighth Dynamic we don't tell you what you have to believe about tell you what you have to believe about tell you what you have to believe about that and technically speaking that is that and technically speaking that is that and technically speaking that is true technically speaking that is true true technically speaking that is true true technically speaking that is true there's no point in Scientology where there's no point in Scientology where there's no point in Scientology where they sit you down and say you're now they sit you down and say you're now they sit you down and say you're now required to revoke your belief in a required to revoke your belief in a required to revoke your belief in a Supreme Being it's just that everything Supreme Being it's just that everything Supreme Being it's just that everything in Scientology is is inconsistent with a in Scientology is is inconsistent with a in Scientology is is inconsistent with a belief in the Supreme Being belief in the Supreme Being belief in the Supreme Being you can still find scientologists who you can still find scientologists who you can still find scientologists who through cognitive dissonance will tell through cognitive dissonance will tell through cognitive dissonance will tell you they believe in a supreme being you they believe in a supreme being you they believe in a supreme being mostly they're lying to you how's this mostly they're lying to you how's this mostly they're lying to you how's this inconsistent with the Supreme Being inconsistent with the Supreme Being inconsistent with the Supreme Being because like Satan's because Satan's because like Satan's because Satan's because like Satan's because Satan's have created everything not God have created everything not God have created everything not God okay so things creative they they're okay so things creative they they're okay so things creative they they're also creative for us they're not just also creative for us they're not just also creative for us they're not just the force that runs everything right but the force that runs everything right but the force that runs everything right but can't those be just the fingertips of a can't those be just the fingertips of a can't those be just the fingertips of a god sure the only way you could god sure the only way you could god sure the only way you could reconcile a Supreme Being reconcile a Supreme Being reconcile a Supreme Being is if you say a single Supreme Being is if you say a single Supreme Being is if you say a single Supreme Being created created created all Theta all Theta all Theta yeah like the spiritual Big Bang yep but yeah like the spiritual Big Bang yep but yeah like the spiritual Big Bang yep but that's not what most people think when that's not what most people think when that's not what most people think when they say when they talk about God they say when they talk about God they say when they talk about God they're talking about a creator of the they're talking about a creator of the they're talking about a creator of the physical Universe yes there's no Theta physical Universe yes there's no Theta physical Universe yes there's no Theta right right right I mean even as I've described I mean even as I've described I mean even as I've described Scientology so far none of what I've Scientology so far none of what I've Scientology so far none of what I've said is something I even subject to said is something I even subject to said is something I even subject to riddle cool this is pretty Common Sense riddle cool this is pretty Common Sense riddle cool this is pretty Common Sense stuff actually I mean if you believe in stuff actually I mean if you believe in stuff actually I mean if you believe in spirituality or Spirits at all there's spirituality or Spirits at all there's spirituality or Spirits at all there's nothing I've described so far that's nothing I've described so far that's nothing I've described so far that's crazy yeah you know believing in past crazy yeah you know believing in past crazy yeah you know believing in past lives isn't particularly unique or

lives isn't particularly unique or lives isn't particularly unique or special right special right special right um the fact that Scientology does this um the fact that Scientology does this um the fact that Scientology does this little dance of pretending to believe in little dance of pretending to believe in little dance of pretending to believe in a God I mean it's even like a PR line a God I mean it's even like a PR line a God I mean it's even like a PR line Scientology Representatives will tell Scientology Representatives will tell Scientology Representatives will tell you you can be a Christian and be a you you can be a Christian and be a you you can be a Christian and be a Scientologist well let me tell you what Scientologist well let me tell you what Scientologist well let me tell you what Christians don't believe in past lives Christians don't believe in past lives Christians don't believe in past lives and lives on other galaxies and planets and lives on other galaxies and planets and lives on other galaxies and planets and universes they but and Scientology and universes they but and Scientology and universes they but and Scientology knows that Scientology knows you can't knows that Scientology knows you can't knows that Scientology knows you can't be a Christian and be a Scientologist be a Christian and be a Scientologist be a Christian and be a Scientologist but they will say that it's just an but they will say that it's just an but they will say that it's just an example of sort of the fundamental baked example of sort of the fundamental baked example of sort of the fundamental baked in dishonesty because it's so important in dishonesty because it's so important in dishonesty because it's so important to Scientology on their organizational to Scientology on their organizational to Scientology on their organizational level to have text exempt status level to have text exempt status level to have text exempt status I wonder how do you do you know the I wonder how do you do you know the I wonder how do you do you know the process of what it takes to prove that process of what it takes to prove that process of what it takes to prove that some an organization is a religion while some an organization is a religion while some an organization is a religion while going through that process with the IRS going through that process with the IRS going through that process with the IRS for the second time by the way for the second time by the way for the second time by the way Scientology actually had tax exemption Scientology actually had tax exemption Scientology actually had tax exemption in the early days and the IRS pulled it in the early days and the IRS pulled it in the early days and the IRS pulled it and then they got it back in 1993. while and then they got it back in 1993. while and then they got it back in 1993. while going through that process again the IRS going through that process again the IRS going through that process again the IRS actually took issue with the fact that actually took issue with the fact that actually took issue with the fact that Scientology was claiming you could be a Scientology was claiming you could be a Scientology was claiming you could be a Scientologist and a member of another Scientologist and a member of another Scientologist and a member of another religion the IRS actually said pump the religion the IRS actually said pump the religion the IRS actually said pump the brakes there yeah if you're going to say brakes there yeah if you're going to say brakes there yeah if you're going to say that that that we're going to say you're not a religion we're going to say you're not a religion we're going to say you're not a religion yeah and they actually in put in writing yeah and they actually in put in writing yeah and they actually in put in writing to the IRS no no no no that's not what to the IRS no no no no that's not what to the IRS no no no no that's not what we meant that's not what we meant we meant that's not what we meant we meant that's not what we meant we meant in the beginning you can be we meant in the beginning you can be we meant in the beginning you can be both but eventually you just have to be both but eventually you just have to be both but eventually you just have to be a Scientologist so you mentioned the a Scientologist so you mentioned the a Scientologist so you mentioned the eight eight eight the eight Dynamics but you also the eight Dynamics but you also the eight Dynamics but you also mentioned survival so that seems to be a mentioned survival so that seems to be a mentioned survival so that seems to be a core principle that that human existence core principle that that human existence core principle that that human existence is about survival can you elaborate what

is about survival can you elaborate what is about survival can you elaborate what is meant by survival are we talking is meant by survival are we talking is meant by survival are we talking about the survival of the human species about the survival of the human species about the survival of the human species survival of the individual humans survival of the individual humans survival of the individual humans survival of the manifestation of Satan's survival of the manifestation of Satan's survival of the manifestation of Satan's in human form what what do we what's in human form what what do we what's in human form what what do we what's survival so it would be all of that survival so it would be all of that survival so it would be all of that because survival is the the dominant because survival is the the dominant because survival is the the dominant Force across all the Dynamics Force across all the Dynamics Force across all the Dynamics that I mean L Ron Hubbard it was either that I mean L Ron Hubbard it was either that I mean L Ron Hubbard it was either Dianetics or science of survival he Dianetics or science of survival he Dianetics or science of survival he he says he discovered the principle upon he says he discovered the principle upon he says he discovered the principle upon which all life exists and that is all which all life exists and that is all which all life exists and that is all life no matter what it is trying to do life no matter what it is trying to do life no matter what it is trying to do are you ready Alex it's trying to are you ready Alex it's trying to are you ready Alex it's trying to survive survive survive that's pretty powerful that's pretty that's pretty powerful that's pretty that's pretty powerful that's pretty powerful that's it no I I got to tell powerful that's it no I I got to tell powerful that's it no I I got to tell you I gotta you might get me back in no you I gotta you might get me back in no you I gotta you might get me back in no I'm not I'm not trying to get you back I'm not I'm not trying to get you back I'm not I'm not trying to get you back in I'm trying to take you uh get you to in I'm trying to take you uh get you to in I'm trying to take you uh get you to take seriously the power of the ideas take seriously the power of the ideas take seriously the power of the ideas behind Scientology because I think those behind Scientology because I think those behind Scientology because I think those ideas are not bad ideas uh they resonate ideas are not bad ideas uh they resonate ideas are not bad ideas uh they resonate with a lot of ideas throughout with a lot of ideas throughout with a lot of ideas throughout philosophy through our religions philosophy through our religions philosophy through our religions throughout the history of human throughout the history of human throughout the history of human civilization civilization civilization the interesting aspect is how it goes the interesting aspect is how it goes the interesting aspect is how it goes wrong but here's the thing like here's wrong but here's the thing like here's wrong but here's the thing like here's the thing it is consistent with prior the thing it is consistent with prior the thing it is consistent with prior efforts or studies it's just that L Ron efforts or studies it's just that L Ron efforts or studies it's just that L Ron Hubbard said this was a watershed Hubbard said this was a watershed Hubbard said this was a watershed breakthrough that was being discovered breakthrough that was being discovered breakthrough that was being discovered for the first time that's kind of what for the first time that's kind of what for the first time that's kind of what I'm mocking really yeah but you can mock I'm mocking really yeah but you can mock I'm mocking really yeah but you can mock Nietzsche for saying man is Will To Nietzsche for saying man is Will To Nietzsche for saying man is Will To Power you can claim to be the first Power you can claim to be the first Power you can claim to be the first person to ever say it well Nietzsche person to ever say it well Nietzsche person to ever say it well Nietzsche he's had a bit of an ego so like and he's had a bit of an ego so like and he's had a bit of an ego so like and he's full of contradictions but I'm he's full of contradictions but I'm he's full of contradictions but I'm pretty sure pretty sure pretty sure the the imply thing is that he was the

the the imply thing is that he was the the the imply thing is that he was the first first to say it yeah there's a lot first first to say it yeah there's a lot first first to say it yeah there's a lot of scientists there's a one of the of scientists there's a one of the of scientists there's a one of the people I really admire is Stephen people I really admire is Stephen people I really admire is Stephen Wolfram who uh wrote a a book called A Wolfram who uh wrote a a book called A Wolfram who uh wrote a a book called A New Kind of science that explores uh New Kind of science that explores uh New Kind of science that explores uh complex systems and cellular automata complex systems and cellular automata complex systems and cellular automata and these mathematical systems that have and these mathematical systems that have and these mathematical systems that have been explored before but he boldly kind been explored before but he boldly kind been explored before but he boldly kind of defined I am presenting to you a of defined I am presenting to you a of defined I am presenting to you a whole new way to look at the world and whole new way to look at the world and whole new way to look at the world and if you just set a little bit of the ego if you just set a little bit of the ego if you just set a little bit of the ego behind that aside there's actually behind that aside there's actually behind that aside there's actually beautiful ideas in there they have of beautiful ideas in there they have of beautiful ideas in there they have of course been done before and explored course been done before and explored course been done before and explored before but sometimes people declare the before but sometimes people declare the before but sometimes people declare the coolest that's the only thing I'm really coolest that's the only thing I'm really coolest that's the only thing I'm really mocking is yes this discovery that life mocking is yes this discovery that life mocking is yes this discovery that life is trying to survive is greater than the is trying to survive is greater than the is trying to survive is greater than the discovery of fire okay I mean it gets a discovery of fire okay I mean it gets a discovery of fire okay I mean it gets a little silly but that's fine we can little silly but that's fine we can little silly but that's fine we can agree that the fact that life is trying agree that the fact that life is trying agree that the fact that life is trying to survive has meaning and is Meaningful to survive has meaning and is Meaningful to survive has meaning and is Meaningful and can be is valuable and it's true I and can be is valuable and it's true I and can be is valuable and it's true I mean life is trying to survive also mean life is trying to survive also mean life is trying to survive also there's a non-trivial definition of what there's a non-trivial definition of what there's a non-trivial definition of what is life here so this idea of a thing the is life here so this idea of a thing the is life here so this idea of a thing the thing that permeates thing that permeates thing that permeates through lifetimes yeah through people through lifetimes yeah through people through lifetimes yeah through people there's some some fabric that is bigger there's some some fabric that is bigger there's some some fabric that is bigger than the individual biological bags of than the individual biological bags of than the individual biological bags of meat that's a philosophically meat that's a philosophically meat that's a philosophically interesting idea of course if it's not interesting idea of course if it's not interesting idea of course if it's not grounded in a little bit more uh a grounded in a little bit more uh a grounded in a little bit more uh a physical reality then it becomes a physical reality then it becomes a physical reality then it becomes a little to Google and the way I'll run little to Google and the way I'll run little to Google and the way I'll run Hubbard and Scientology defines survival Hubbard and Scientology defines survival Hubbard and Scientology defines survival is very much intertwined with how they is very much intertwined with how they is very much intertwined with how they Define ethics ethics anything you know Define ethics ethics anything you know Define ethics ethics anything you know to be ethical is pro survival to be ethical is pro survival to be ethical is pro survival to be unethical is counter survival but to be unethical is counter survival but to be unethical is counter survival but we were talking about just the concept we were talking about just the concept we were talking about just the concept of the Dynamics like what does survival of the Dynamics like what does survival of the Dynamics like what does survival refer to and it actually does refer to

refer to and it actually does refer to refer to and it actually does refer to all of them but just keep in mind when all of them but just keep in mind when all of them but just keep in mind when it comes to the seventh Dynamic thetans it comes to the seventh Dynamic thetans it comes to the seventh Dynamic thetans collectively collectively collectively um involved in here's the idea that a um involved in here's the idea that a um involved in here's the idea that a thing cannot die there's no such thing thing cannot die there's no such thing thing cannot die there's no such thing as killing a thing nathane can only can as killing a thing nathane can only can as killing a thing nathane can only can only survive only survive only survive and so and so and so um anyway uh this concept of the um anyway uh this concept of the um anyway uh this concept of the Dynamics is one of the most fundamental Dynamics is one of the most fundamental Dynamics is one of the most fundamental and important Concepts in Scientology and important Concepts in Scientology and important Concepts in Scientology but but because I mentioned that it also but but because I mentioned that it also but but because I mentioned that it also gets tied up with ethics and this gets tied up with ethics and this gets tied up with ethics and this probably speaks to what you're just probably speaks to what you're just probably speaks to what you're just talking about is you can have the ideas talking about is you can have the ideas talking about is you can have the ideas and the concepts and you can have how do and the concepts and you can have how do and the concepts and you can have how do they go wrong they go wrong they go wrong because they hold because they hold because they hold that Scientology applying Scientology that Scientology applying Scientology that Scientology applying Scientology getting people into Scientology is the getting people into Scientology is the getting people into Scientology is the key to basically saving every spiritual key to basically saving every spiritual key to basically saving every spiritual being in existence being in existence being in existence when you're analyzing what is ethical it when you're analyzing what is ethical it when you're analyzing what is ethical it becomes whatever is good for Scientology becomes whatever is good for Scientology becomes whatever is good for Scientology becomes by definition ethical because becomes by definition ethical because becomes by definition ethical because anything that's good for Scientology anything that's good for Scientology anything that's good for Scientology which is a third Dynamic is inherently which is a third Dynamic is inherently which is a third Dynamic is inherently good for all the Dynamics so that's good for all the Dynamics so that's good for all the Dynamics so that's where you get where you get where you get the ends justifying the means to do any the ends justifying the means to do any the ends justifying the means to do any anything possible and use any means anything possible and use any means anything possible and use any means necessary to afford the aims of necessary to afford the aims of necessary to afford the aims of Scientology that's kind of where a lot Scientology that's kind of where a lot Scientology that's kind of where a lot of uh Soviet implementation of Communism of uh Soviet implementation of Communism of uh Soviet implementation of Communism went wrong is the ends justify the means went wrong is the ends justify the means went wrong is the ends justify the means the equality the justice for the workers the equality the justice for the workers the equality the justice for the workers uh if we have to kill murder in prison uh if we have to kill murder in prison uh if we have to kill murder in prison censor yeah in in the name of that then censor yeah in in the name of that then censor yeah in in the name of that then it's it's for the greater good in the it's it's for the greater good in the it's it's for the greater good in the long term to achieve the the ideal of long term to achieve the the ideal of long term to achieve the the ideal of Communism in some respects Scientology

Communism in some respects Scientology Communism in some respects Scientology created a near-perfect communist created a near-perfect communist created a near-perfect communist experiment in its sea organization experiment in its sea organization experiment in its sea organization what is it from everyone according to what is it from everyone according to what is it from everyone according to their ability to reach according to their ability to reach according to their ability to reach according to their need or something like that their need or something like that their need or something like that Scientology C organization is damn near Scientology C organization is damn near Scientology C organization is damn near a perfect communist experiment a perfect communist experiment a perfect communist experiment coming from someone who doesn't coming from someone who doesn't coming from someone who doesn't necessarily know the perfect communist necessarily know the perfect communist necessarily know the perfect communist experiment really is because I'm not experiment really is because I'm not experiment really is because I'm not grew up in a cult Lex you can't use it grew up in a cult Lex you can't use it grew up in a cult Lex you can't use it as an excuse It's a funny tagline to use as an excuse It's a funny tagline to use as an excuse It's a funny tagline to use in my videos I like it but like it is in my videos I like it but like it is in my videos I like it but like it is interesting that an organization that is interesting that an organization that is interesting that an organization that is so hyper capitalist and so money hungry so hyper capitalist and so money hungry so hyper capitalist and so money hungry and is known to be very wealthy at its and is known to be very wealthy at its and is known to be very wealthy at its core is run by these group of seog core is run by these group of seog core is run by these group of seog members that live a communist lifestyle members that live a communist lifestyle members that live a communist lifestyle we're gonna jump around let's go what is we're gonna jump around let's go what is we're gonna jump around let's go what is sea org what is C organization what is sea org what is C organization what is sea org what is C organization what is this organization the C organization is this organization the C organization is this organization the C organization is the most dedicated version the most the most dedicated version the most the most dedicated version the most dedicated brand of scientologists so dedicated brand of scientologists so dedicated brand of scientologists so there's three like echelons of there's three like echelons of there's three like echelons of scientologists there's public who just scientologists there's public who just scientologists there's public who just live normal lives in the real world and live normal lives in the real world and live normal lives in the real world and they pay to do Scientology courses in they pay to do Scientology courses in they pay to do Scientology courses in auditing then there's staff members who auditing then there's staff members who auditing then there's staff members who also live in the Real Worlds uh but work also live in the Real Worlds uh but work also live in the Real Worlds uh but work on two and a half year contracts or on two and a half year contracts or on two and a half year contracts or five-year contracts at their local five-year contracts at their local five-year contracts at their local Scientology organization and then once Scientology organization and then once Scientology organization and then once they finish their contract there their they finish their contract there their they finish their contract there their debt is paid or whatever and then debt is paid or whatever and then debt is paid or whatever and then there's the sea org members these are there's the sea org members these are there's the sea org members these are the guys who signed the billion year the guys who signed the billion year the guys who signed the billion year contracts they don't have lives in the contracts they don't have lives in the contracts they don't have lives in the outside world they don't own property outside world they don't own property outside world they don't own property they live in Scientology provided they live in Scientology provided they live in Scientology provided housing they eat Scientology they eat housing they eat Scientology they eat housing they eat Scientology they eat Scientology run cafeterias is there an Scientology run cafeterias is there an Scientology run cafeterias is there an actual contract that says a billion actual contract that says a billion actual contract that says a billion years it's symbolic but yes okay like no years it's symbolic but yes okay like no years it's symbolic but yes okay like no it's not a legally enforceable contract it's not a legally enforceable contract it's not a legally enforceable contract they haven't succeeded in enforcing it they haven't succeeded in enforcing it they haven't succeeded in enforcing it in any subsequent lifetimes yet marriage

in any subsequent lifetimes yet marriage in any subsequent lifetimes yet marriage contracts should be like that a billion contracts should be like that a billion contracts should be like that a billion years not until death to us part but a years not until death to us part but a years not until death to us part but a billion years it really makes it very billion years it really makes it very billion years it really makes it very concrete of what you're signing up for concrete of what you're signing up for concrete of what you're signing up for yeah those are the billion year guys you yeah those are the billion year guys you yeah those are the billion year guys you hear a lot about the billionaire hear a lot about the billionaire hear a lot about the billionaire contract the billion year contract contract the billion year contract contract the billion year contract that's the sea org and and uh all of that's the sea org and and uh all of that's the sea org and and uh all of Scientology Management International Scientology Management International Scientology Management International Management middle management Continental Management middle management Continental Management middle management Continental Management and even some lower level Management and even some lower level Management and even some lower level service orgs are one composed 100 of service orgs are one composed 100 of service orgs are one composed 100 of cork members cork members cork members you're not allowed to marry or date you're not allowed to marry or date you're not allowed to marry or date someone who's not in the sea org uh someone who's not in the sea org uh someone who's not in the sea org uh you're also not allowed to have children you're also not allowed to have children you're also not allowed to have children with anybody outside yoga in general with anybody outside yoga in general with anybody outside yoga in general you're not allowed to have children sea you're not allowed to have children sea you're not allowed to have children sea org members are not allowed to have org members are not allowed to have org members are not allowed to have children unless they leave the sea Arc children unless they leave the sea Arc children unless they leave the sea Arc if you they're you're expected to uh if you they're you're expected to uh if you they're you're expected to uh have an abortion and stay in the sea org have an abortion and stay in the sea org have an abortion and stay in the sea org because it's the greatest good for because it's the greatest good for because it's the greatest good for Scientology if you accidentally get Scientology if you accidentally get Scientology if you accidentally get pregnant interesting because it pregnant interesting because it pregnant interesting because it distracts from the focus of the work distracts from the focus of the work distracts from the focus of the work yeah what about sexual relations only yeah what about sexual relations only yeah what about sexual relations only once married but that's why people get once married but that's why people get once married but that's why people get married after like three days you're married after like three days you're married after like three days you're like hey you you look you look all right like hey you you look you look all right like hey you you look you look all right let's get married are you allowed to let's get married are you allowed to let's get married are you allowed to have divorce yeah you get divorced a lot have divorce yeah you get divorced a lot have divorce yeah you get divorced a lot in the sea org I've known people who get in the sea org I've known people who get in the sea org I've known people who get married divorced three times by like by married divorced three times by like by married divorced three times by like by the age of 25. oh wow because in this the age of 25. oh wow because in this the age of 25. oh wow because in this year getting married is practically like year getting married is practically like year getting married is practically like dating right also unless you're married dating right also unless you're married dating right also unless you're married you're living in dorms with a bunch of you're living in dorms with a bunch of you're living in dorms with a bunch of other people so in order to get your own other people so in order to get your own other people so in order to get your own room you also have to get married so room you also have to get married so room you also have to get married so there's many benefits oh wow okay so uh there's many benefits oh wow okay so uh there's many benefits oh wow okay so uh you mentioned communism in which way you mentioned communism in which way you mentioned communism in which way because there is there a hierarchy because there is there a hierarchy because there is there a hierarchy inside sea org is there a redistribution inside sea org is there a redistribution inside sea org is there a redistribution of uh influence position money power and

of uh influence position money power and of uh influence position money power and sexy org everyone in this New York makes sexy org everyone in this New York makes sexy org everyone in this New York makes 50 a week everybody except David 50 a week everybody except David 50 a week everybody except David miscavige but right and and some uh some miscavige but right and and some uh some miscavige but right and and some uh some posts might have a cash bonus incentive posts might have a cash bonus incentive posts might have a cash bonus incentive structure but fundamentally their pay is structure but fundamentally their pay is structure but fundamentally their pay is 50 a week so so even the head of a big 50 a week so so even the head of a big 50 a week so so even the head of a big Scientology organization Scientology organization Scientology organization is getting 50 bucks a week is getting 50 bucks a week is getting 50 bucks a week our celebrities also part of seaworg or our celebrities also part of seaworg or our celebrities also part of seaworg or not usually so this is really the not usually so this is really the not usually so this is really the management layer management layer management layer so what's the idea behind fifty dollars so what's the idea behind fifty dollars so what's the idea behind fifty dollars a week is that basically live a humble a week is that basically live a humble a week is that basically live a humble life they don't have to give you life they don't have to give you life they don't have to give you anything at all it's just Oh you mean anything at all it's just Oh you mean anything at all it's just Oh you mean like what's the idea behind not paying like what's the idea behind not paying like what's the idea behind not paying yeah basically not paying yeah basically not paying yeah basically not paying everything you need is already being everything you need is already being everything you need is already being provided for you you're not here for the provided for you you're not here for the provided for you you're not here for the money money money you're working all the time anyway it's you're working all the time anyway it's you're working all the time anyway it's not like you don't have days off I mean not like you don't have days off I mean not like you don't have days off I mean you're you're working all the time you're you're working all the time you're you're working all the time there's there's not it's there's no there's there's not it's there's no there's there's not it's there's no concept of the weekends there's no oh concept of the weekends there's no oh concept of the weekends there's no oh thank God it's Friday Friday's just thank God it's Friday Friday's just thank God it's Friday Friday's just another day and how are the position the another day and how are the position the another day and how are the position the tasks the jobs uh allocated within the tasks the jobs uh allocated within the tasks the jobs uh allocated within the sea org what do you mean like like what sea org what do you mean like like what sea org what do you mean like like what kind of tasks you're doing what kind of kind of tasks you're doing what kind of kind of tasks you're doing what kind of stuff you're doing it's very similar to stuff you're doing it's very similar to stuff you're doing it's very similar to just any other just any other just any other um business as far as you can have your um business as far as you can have your um business as far as you can have your Human Resources you can have your sales Human Resources you can have your sales Human Resources you can have your sales you can have your accounting your you can have your accounting your you can have your accounting your operations your quality control it's operations your quality control it's operations your quality control it's just that in Scientology your operations just that in Scientology your operations just that in Scientology your operations is delivering courses and auditing so is delivering courses and auditing so is delivering courses and auditing so your operations and your quality control your operations and your quality control your operations and your quality control were most of the activity occurs as far were most of the activity occurs as far were most of the activity occurs as far as delivering Scientology as delivering Scientology as delivering Scientology and then you've got your you'd call it and then you've got your you'd call it and then you've got your you'd call it business development but that's just business development but that's just business development but that's just bringing in new members right

bringing in new members right bringing in new members right so the the the the function of so the the the the function of so the the the the function of scientology's organization is very scientology's organization is very scientology's organization is very uh very comparable to a normal business uh very comparable to a normal business uh very comparable to a normal business in the normal world in the normal world in the normal world so let's talk about the products of this so let's talk about the products of this so let's talk about the products of this business auditing and courses so what's business auditing and courses so what's business auditing and courses so what's auditing so auditing is so we described auditing so auditing is so we described auditing so auditing is so we described earlier Dianetics auditing earlier Dianetics auditing earlier Dianetics auditing Scientology auditing is uh very similar Scientology auditing is uh very similar Scientology auditing is uh very similar to that so at first glance it it looks to that so at first glance it it looks to that so at first glance it it looks like Psychotherapy a kind of therapy all like Psychotherapy a kind of therapy all like Psychotherapy a kind of therapy all Scientology auditing is going to look Scientology auditing is going to look Scientology auditing is going to look like that it's one-on-one talk therapy like that it's one-on-one talk therapy like that it's one-on-one talk therapy uh you're in a a room by yourselves no uh you're in a a room by yourselves no uh you're in a a room by yourselves no distraction no noise one-on-one yeah distraction no noise one-on-one yeah distraction no noise one-on-one yeah like this yeah but and in Scientology like this yeah but and in Scientology like this yeah but and in Scientology they have what's called an e-meter who they have what's called an e-meter who they have what's called an e-meter who writes almost all auditing employs the writes almost all auditing employs the writes almost all auditing employs the use of any meter what's an e-meter so an use of any meter what's an e-meter so an use of any meter what's an e-meter so an e-meter is a device that just measures e-meter is a device that just measures e-meter is a device that just measures the resistance to a small electrical the resistance to a small electrical the resistance to a small electrical flow except scientologists believe that flow except scientologists believe that flow except scientologists believe that this emitter can be used to Simply this emitter can be used to Simply this emitter can be used to Simply direct the progress of an auditing direct the progress of an auditing direct the progress of an auditing session to determine whether session to determine whether session to determine whether uh the auditing has reached a good uh the auditing has reached a good uh the auditing has reached a good satisfactory satisfactory satisfactory conclusion conclusion conclusion uh all auditing sessions have to end on uh all auditing sessions have to end on uh all auditing sessions have to end on a satisfactory conclusion like that's a satisfactory conclusion like that's a satisfactory conclusion like that's the job of the auditor there's you don't the job of the auditor there's you don't the job of the auditor there's you don't just it's not like sorry the session just it's not like sorry the session just it's not like sorry the session sucked see you next week it's not like sucked see you next week it's not like sucked see you next week it's not like that every auditing session has to end that every auditing session has to end that every auditing session has to end um on a positive note and if it doesn't um on a positive note and if it doesn't um on a positive note and if it doesn't uh there's corrections to be made so

uh there's corrections to be made so uh there's corrections to be made so um the e-meter what does it look like um the e-meter what does it look like um the e-meter what does it look like visually like oh you can pull it up visually like oh you can pull it up visually like oh you can pull it up pull up Mark eight e-meter Mark eight so pull up Mark eight e-meter Mark eight so pull up Mark eight e-meter Mark eight so there's a few dials you know there's a there's a few dials you know there's a there's a few dials you know there's a basic information about time and basic information about time and basic information about time and duration I'm presuming then a dial that duration I'm presuming then a dial that duration I'm presuming then a dial that just goes zero to something okay so just goes zero to something okay so just goes zero to something okay so let's say that the meter's in front of let's say that the meter's in front of let's say that the meter's in front of me and you're the one holding the cans me and you're the one holding the cans me and you're the one holding the cans I'm holding the cancel your enter you're I'm holding the cancel your enter you're I'm holding the cancel your enter you're doing the auditing of me yeah okay okay doing the auditing of me yeah okay okay doing the auditing of me yeah okay okay I'm holding the cans no literally in the I'm holding the cans no literally in the I'm holding the cans no literally in the beginning of an auditing session when beginning of an auditing session when beginning of an auditing session when you're calibrating the sensitivity you're calibrating the sensitivity you're calibrating the sensitivity sensitivity of the emitter you do like a sensitivity of the emitter you do like a sensitivity of the emitter you do like a can squeeze so I go squeeze the cans can squeeze so I go squeeze the cans can squeeze so I go squeeze the cans please okay so I'm just like squeezing please okay so I'm just like squeezing please okay so I'm just like squeezing yeah and I'm just changing the yeah and I'm just changing the yeah and I'm just changing the sensitivity because when you squeeze the sensitivity because when you squeeze the sensitivity because when you squeeze the cans I want to get about a one-third of cans I want to get about a one-third of cans I want to get about a one-third of a dial drop on the needle the idea is a dial drop on the needle the idea is a dial drop on the needle the idea is you don't want if the needle's too you don't want if the needle's too you don't want if the needle's too sensitive then every time you shift sensitive then every time you shift sensitive then every time you shift around in your chair the needle is going around in your chair the needle is going around in your chair the needle is going to bounce all over the place so you're to bounce all over the place so you're to bounce all over the place so you're trying to set the sensitivity to this trying to set the sensitivity to this trying to set the sensitivity to this thing and that's all the the knob there thing and that's all the the knob there thing and that's all the the knob there on the bottom to the left that's the on the bottom to the left that's the on the bottom to the left that's the sensitivity knob sensitivity knob sensitivity knob and that determines just uh how much how and that determines just uh how much how and that determines just uh how much how sensitive the needle is going to be and sensitive the needle is going to be and sensitive the needle is going to be and the the bigger dial is called the tone the the bigger dial is called the tone the the bigger dial is called the tone arm and that is changing uh I want to arm and that is changing uh I want to arm and that is changing uh I want to say voltage or current but I'm not say voltage or current but I'm not say voltage or current but I'm not intending I'm going to get one of those intending I'm going to get one of those intending I'm going to get one of those words that's wrong right but it is a words that's wrong right but it is a words that's wrong right but it is a real device it's a real device so you real device it's a real device so you real device it's a real device so you can actually calibrate uh to probably can actually calibrate uh to probably can actually calibrate uh to probably you know get an outcome that you want you know get an outcome that you want you know get an outcome that you want yeah so here's even how just how a yeah so here's even how just how a yeah so here's even how just how a Scientology auditor believes it works Scientology auditor believes it works Scientology auditor believes it works you're holding the cans there's a tiny you're holding the cans there's a tiny you're holding the cans there's a tiny little battery in that emitter that's little battery in that emitter that's little battery in that emitter that's sending you're completing the circuit sending you're completing the circuit sending you're completing the circuit when you pick up the cans right so you when you pick up the cans right so you when you pick up the cans right so you got a little thing going there and that

got a little thing going there and that got a little thing going there and that needle will respond to your physical needle will respond to your physical needle will respond to your physical movement but that's not what we want we movement but that's not what we want we movement but that's not what we want we want you to sit the hell still so that want you to sit the hell still so that want you to sit the hell still so that we can read this thing when I'm asking we can read this thing when I'm asking we can read this thing when I'm asking you questions you questions you questions okay so you're sitting there still very okay so you're sitting there still very okay so you're sitting there still very still as still as you can comfortable still as still as you can comfortable still as still as you can comfortable right and I'm gonna go is there right and I'm gonna go is there right and I'm gonna go is there something you're withholding from me and something you're withholding from me and something you're withholding from me and what I'm looking for is right when I say what I'm looking for is right when I say what I'm looking for is right when I say at the end of me I'm looking for the at the end of me I'm looking for the at the end of me I'm looking for the needle to dip to the right having a needle to dip to the right having a needle to dip to the right having a needle even if it's kind of random needle even if it's kind of random needle even if it's kind of random can really be like um a catalyst for a can really be like um a catalyst for a can really be like um a catalyst for a conversation that's what it's used for conversation that's what it's used for conversation that's what it's used for except it's an enforced conversation so except it's an enforced conversation so except it's an enforced conversation so I'll give you a really good example of I'll give you a really good example of I'll give you a really good example of this so this so this so you're holding the cans say is there you're holding the cans say is there you're holding the cans say is there anything you're withholding from me anything you're withholding from me anything you're withholding from me and I get an instant read and I get an instant read and I get an instant read and I go is there anything you're and I go is there anything you're and I go is there anything you're worthholding for me you're gonna go I worthholding for me you're gonna go I worthholding for me you're gonna go I don't think so and I don't see the don't think so and I don't see the don't think so and I don't see the needle no you don't see the needle okay needle no you don't see the needle okay needle no you don't see the needle okay I go well what did you think of when I I go well what did you think of when I I go well what did you think of when I asked you the question now if you've asked you the question now if you've asked you the question now if you've already had a lot of auditing you know already had a lot of auditing you know already had a lot of auditing you know how this goes it means I got an instant how this goes it means I got an instant how this goes it means I got an instant read and we're not going to move on read and we're not going to move on read and we're not going to move on until this question gets resolved okay until this question gets resolved okay until this question gets resolved okay so you're gonna go I don't know what I so you're gonna go I don't know what I so you're gonna go I don't know what I was thinking of and then I'm gonna I'll was thinking of and then I'm gonna I'll was thinking of and then I'm gonna I'll be like you know take a look and I'll be like you know take a look and I'll be like you know take a look and I'll help you out here I'll try to steer you help you out here I'll try to steer you help you out here I'll try to steer you okay so I'm looking to get roughly the okay so I'm looking to get roughly the okay so I'm looking to get roughly the same read while you're thinking about same read while you're thinking about same read while you're thinking about whatever I mean what was that what was whatever I mean what was that what was whatever I mean what was that what was that right there and you can start that right there and you can start that right there and you can start digging to what you can start I just digging to what you can start I just digging to what you can start I just want an answer to the question okay and want an answer to the question okay and want an answer to the question okay and I can go to memory yeah and you can give I can go to memory yeah and you can give I can go to memory yeah and you can give me any answer you want there's no way me any answer you want there's no way me any answer you want there's no way for me to know if you're giving me the for me to know if you're giving me the for me to know if you're giving me the right answer but I want you to give me right answer but I want you to give me right answer but I want you to give me something yeah if you say you can't give something yeah if you say you can't give something yeah if you say you can't give me anything I'm going to keep using the me anything I'm going to keep using the me anything I'm going to keep using the emitter until you give me something yeah emitter until you give me something yeah emitter until you give me something yeah okay so let's say you give me something

okay so let's say you give me something okay so let's say you give me something I'm gonna get all the details about that I'm gonna get all the details about that I'm gonna get all the details about that and until like time place form an event and until like time place form an event and until like time place form an event I want to know everything that happened I want to know everything that happened I want to know everything that happened I want to know all the details and by I want to know all the details and by I want to know all the details and by the way I'm writing all this down so I'm the way I'm writing all this down so I'm the way I'm writing all this down so I'm taking notes of everything you're taking notes of everything you're taking notes of everything you're telling me that it's a bad thing that telling me that it's a bad thing that telling me that it's a bad thing that you did that you haven't told me about you did that you haven't told me about you did that you haven't told me about okay so I'm keeping notes okay so I'm keeping notes okay so I'm keeping notes when you represent to me that you've when you represent to me that you've when you represent to me that you've told me everything there is to tell I'm told me everything there is to tell I'm told me everything there is to tell I'm looking for the needle to give like a looking for the needle to give like a looking for the needle to give like a smooth back and forth motion like this smooth back and forth motion like this smooth back and forth motion like this and Scientology calls that a floating and Scientology calls that a floating and Scientology calls that a floating needle that means in Scientology land needle that means in Scientology land needle that means in Scientology land we're done with that we're done with that we're done with that so now I might go back to check the so now I might go back to check the so now I might go back to check the question okay good I'll check the question okay good I'll check the question okay good I'll check the question again is there anything you're question again is there anything you're question again is there anything you're withholding from me oh if I get another withholding from me oh if I get another withholding from me oh if I get another read we got to go through the process read we got to go through the process read we got to go through the process again okay if you tell me I've told you again okay if you tell me I've told you again okay if you tell me I've told you everything and I don't get a floating everything and I don't get a floating everything and I don't get a floating needle I've got to go okay is there an needle I've got to go okay is there an needle I've got to go okay is there an earlier similar earlier similar earlier similar thing have you basically done an earlier thing have you basically done an earlier thing have you basically done an earlier similar thing is there an earlier similar thing is there an earlier similar thing is there an earlier similar time you haven't told someone similar time you haven't told someone similar time you haven't told someone something or is there an earlier similar something or is there an earlier similar something or is there an earlier similar thing that you did the thing that you thing that you did the thing that you thing that you did the thing that you just told me just told me just told me we're going to keep going earlier we're going to keep going earlier we're going to keep going earlier similar earlier similar earlier similar similar earlier similar earlier similar similar earlier similar earlier similar until I get a floating needle and that's until I get a floating needle and that's until I get a floating needle and that's where I'm explaining it this way you can where I'm explaining it this way you can where I'm explaining it this way you can see how no matter what the specific see how no matter what the specific see how no matter what the specific auditing session happens to be about auditing session happens to be about auditing session happens to be about there's still the potential in any there's still the potential in any there's still the potential in any auditing session that you're going into auditing session that you're going into auditing session that you're going into past lives yeah just because you have to past lives yeah just because you have to past lives yeah just because you have to go earlier similar until you get a go earlier similar until you get a go earlier similar until you get a floating needle okay now here's how floating needle okay now here's how floating needle okay now here's how scientologists think the emitter scientologists think the emitter scientologists think the emitter actually works meaning why does the actually works meaning why does the actually works meaning why does the emitter work so we talked before about emitter work so we talked before about emitter work so we talked before about these um these mental pictures right these um these mental pictures right these um these mental pictures right these recordings okay well we spoke these recordings okay well we spoke these recordings okay well we spoke about engrams just recordings of pain about engrams just recordings of pain about engrams just recordings of pain and unconsciousness

and unconsciousness and unconsciousness well Scientology would hold the the bad well Scientology would hold the the bad well Scientology would hold the the bad recordings aren't the only recordings recordings aren't the only recordings recordings aren't the only recordings that you have those are just the that you have those are just the that you have those are just the recordings in your reactive mind you recordings in your reactive mind you recordings in your reactive mind you also have an analytical mind which is also have an analytical mind which is also have an analytical mind which is just your conscious memory conscious just your conscious memory conscious just your conscious memory conscious recording of everything from present recording of everything from present recording of everything from present time to the last 76 trillion years yeah time to the last 76 trillion years yeah time to the last 76 trillion years yeah and Hubbard would say that these and Hubbard would say that these and Hubbard would say that these memories are actually a perfectly memories are actually a perfectly memories are actually a perfectly detailed recording and these does like detailed recording and these does like detailed recording and these does like 56 perceptions or something and that 56 perceptions or something and that 56 perceptions or something and that it's perfect it's perfect it's perfect and you can access that information you and you can access that information you and you can access that information you just have trouble doing so okay so he just have trouble doing so okay so he just have trouble doing so okay so he says that these recordings these mental says that these recordings these mental says that these recordings these mental pictures have actual electrical charge pictures have actual electrical charge pictures have actual electrical charge and Mass and Mass and Mass now you asked before is there any actual now you asked before is there any actual now you asked before is there any actual physics in this I don't know where are physics in this I don't know where are physics in this I don't know where are you supposed to store the pictures of you supposed to store the pictures of you supposed to store the pictures of your last 76 trillion years that have your last 76 trillion years that have your last 76 trillion years that have charge in Mass charge in Mass charge in Mass I don't see it but Hubbard says it's I don't see it but Hubbard says it's I don't see it but Hubbard says it's there okay there okay there okay so he says that these things have mass so he says that these things have mass so he says that these things have mass and when you recall them or put and when you recall them or put and when you recall them or put attention on them attention on them attention on them you create an electrical flow you create an electrical flow you create an electrical flow which maybe through magnetic fields or which maybe through magnetic fields or which maybe through magnetic fields or whatever impinges upon the electrical whatever impinges upon the electrical whatever impinges upon the electrical flow of the emitter and it shows up as a flow of the emitter and it shows up as a flow of the emitter and it shows up as a read on the needle that's how read on the needle that's how read on the needle that's how Scientology that's how scientologists Scientology that's how scientologists Scientology that's how scientologists believe that's why the needle reads now believe that's why the needle reads now believe that's why the needle reads now cynics would say the needle only reads cynics would say the needle only reads cynics would say the needle only reads on Palm sweat and movement well I know on Palm sweat and movement well I know on Palm sweat and movement well I know that's not true that's not true that's not true right I can't tell you everything the right I can't tell you everything the right I can't tell you everything the needle does read on but I can tell you needle does read on but I can tell you needle does read on but I can tell you it's not just moving your hands in it's not just moving your hands in it's not just moving your hands in sweaty hands it does correlate to

sweaty hands it does correlate to sweaty hands it does correlate to thoughts probably some way somehow thoughts probably some way somehow thoughts probably some way somehow because if it didn't correlate to because if it didn't correlate to because if it didn't correlate to thoughts that this process would be way thoughts that this process would be way thoughts that this process would be way way too inefficient because it would it way too inefficient because it would it way too inefficient because it would it would be 200 there there's going to be a would be 200 there there's going to be a would be 200 there there's going to be a bunch of people who are just not you're bunch of people who are just not you're bunch of people who are just not you're not going to get the what is it called not going to get the what is it called not going to get the what is it called the floating needle like no matter what the floating needle like no matter what the floating needle like no matter what I can't explain to you how you get a I can't explain to you how you get a I can't explain to you how you get a floating needle but it sure as hell floating needle but it sure as hell floating needle but it sure as hell isn't hand sweat and it sure as hell isn't hand sweat and it sure as hell isn't hand sweat and it sure as hell isn't squeezing the cans right so you isn't squeezing the cans right so you isn't squeezing the cans right so you eventually most people will get to the eventually most people will get to the eventually most people will get to the floating needle and some you get floating needle and some you get floating needle and some you get floating needles there's like a feed floating needles there's like a feed floating needles there's like a feed there probably is a feedback mechanism there probably is a feedback mechanism there probably is a feedback mechanism that you will each person realizes how that you will each person realizes how that you will each person realizes how their mind and body yeah because you their mind and body yeah because you their mind and body yeah because you want a resolution right it's probably want a resolution right it's probably want a resolution right it's probably you want your needle to float for both you want your needle to float for both you want your needle to float for both people yes and it's probably a great people yes and it's probably a great people yes and it's probably a great experience when you're like yes it's a experience when you're like yes it's a experience when you're like yes it's a gamified feeling right well when you're gamified feeling right well when you're gamified feeling right well when you're training on how to use the e-meter there training on how to use the e-meter there training on how to use the e-meter there are drills where you practice generating are drills where you practice generating are drills where you practice generating with your mind various needle reactions with your mind various needle reactions with your mind various needle reactions so you know there is a drill where you so you know there is a drill where you so you know there is a drill where you sit there and you consciously try to sit there and you consciously try to sit there and you consciously try to create a floating needle by recalling create a floating needle by recalling create a floating needle by recalling happy thoughts go to your happy place happy thoughts go to your happy place happy thoughts go to your happy place and at the end of every auditing session and at the end of every auditing session and at the end of every auditing session you actually have to go to an a third you actually have to go to an a third you actually have to go to an a third party sit down in front of an email and party sit down in front of an email and party sit down in front of an email and verify that your needle is floating nice verify that your needle is floating nice verify that your needle is floating nice every single auditing session not only every single auditing session not only every single auditing session not only has to end on a floating needle but then has to end on a floating needle but then has to end on a floating needle but then you have to go to someone else and have you have to go to someone else and have you have to go to someone else and have the floating needle verified any the floating needle verified any the floating needle verified any Scientologist who's uh a seasoned Scientologist who's uh a seasoned Scientologist who's uh a seasoned recipient of auditing knows how to make recipient of auditing knows how to make recipient of auditing knows how to make their needle float at The Examiner their needle float at The Examiner their needle float at The Examiner got to be honest though this process got to be honest though this process got to be honest though this process again sorry to be sort of going there again sorry to be sort of going there again sorry to be sort of going there but but but um um um it feels like this is a very uh rigorous

it feels like this is a very uh rigorous it feels like this is a very uh rigorous talk therapy session is there good talk therapy session is there good talk therapy session is there good aspects to this sure a lot of people aspects to this sure a lot of people aspects to this sure a lot of people find auditing very helpful I mean I've find auditing very helpful I mean I've find auditing very helpful I mean I've heard some describe it as quite heard some describe it as quite heard some describe it as quite thoroughly addictive me personally I thoroughly addictive me personally I thoroughly addictive me personally I never enjoyed getting auditing that's never enjoyed getting auditing that's never enjoyed getting auditing that's probably more a function of having been probably more a function of having been probably more a function of having been raised in it and it was never something raised in it and it was never something raised in it and it was never something I wanted to do something that was forced I wanted to do something that was forced I wanted to do something that was forced on me as a child you know and also I was on me as a child you know and also I was on me as a child you know and also I was never I don't like talking about private never I don't like talking about private never I don't like talking about private secret stuff like you kind of you kind secret stuff like you kind of you kind secret stuff like you kind of you kind of have to want to be an open book sure of have to want to be an open book sure of have to want to be an open book sure to to honestly and thoroughly to to honestly and thoroughly to to honestly and thoroughly participate in an auditing session participate in an auditing session participate in an auditing session because there's not necessarily A belief because there's not necessarily A belief because there's not necessarily A belief that this is going to be private there's that this is going to be private there's that this is going to be private there's no expectation of privacy but there's no no expectation of privacy but there's no no expectation of privacy but there's no expectation that your stuff's going to expectation that your stuff's going to expectation that your stuff's going to be leaked for blackmail either I mean be leaked for blackmail either I mean be leaked for blackmail either I mean you kind of you trust the people in the you kind of you trust the people in the you kind of you trust the people in the organization organization organization even despite rumors and stuff like that even despite rumors and stuff like that even despite rumors and stuff like that but the rumors are coming from people but the rumors are coming from people but the rumors are coming from people that are lying to you essentially that are lying to you essentially that are lying to you essentially if you're a Scientologist and you're if you're a Scientologist and you're if you're a Scientologist and you're participating in participating in an participating in participating in an participating in participating in an auditing session you know that anyone in auditing session you know that anyone in auditing session you know that anyone in the organization is has the ability to the organization is has the ability to the organization is has the ability to know the stuff that you talk it's not know the stuff that you talk it's not know the stuff that you talk it's not like oh my God I'm only telling my like oh my God I'm only telling my like oh my God I'm only telling my auditor because I think no one's ever auditor because I think no one's ever auditor because I think no one's ever going to know you know that people know going to know you know that people know going to know you know that people know but you also trust the organization how but you also trust the organization how but you also trust the organization how quickly does it go to past memories for quickly does it go to past memories for quickly does it go to past memories for people who are seasoned like they people who are seasoned like they people who are seasoned like they actually like going past life actually like going past life actually like going past life yeah I I hated it I would make sure I yeah I I hated it I would make sure I yeah I I hated it I would make sure I was really good at making my needle was really good at making my needle was really good at making my needle float I didn't want to have some auditor float I didn't want to have some auditor float I didn't want to have some auditor because I never believed in the past because I never believed in the past because I never believed in the past life memories yeah so I didn't want to life memories yeah so I didn't want to life memories yeah so I didn't want to be in that impassable you know reach an be in that impassable you know reach an be in that impassable you know reach an impasse in an auditing session where I impasse in an auditing session where I impasse in an auditing session where I was being asked for something I couldn't was being asked for something I couldn't was being asked for something I couldn't provide because I knew this auditing

provide because I knew this auditing provide because I knew this auditing session has to end on a good point but session has to end on a good point but session has to end on a good point but scientologists enjoy for the most part scientologists enjoy for the most part scientologists enjoy for the most part going they call it whole track whole going they call it whole track whole going they call it whole track whole track is past life going whole track track is past life going whole track track is past life going whole track your time track they call it the time your time track they call it the time your time track they call it the time track is your whole memory but whole track is your whole memory but whole track is your whole memory but whole track refers to anything past life okay track refers to anything past life okay track refers to anything past life okay so going whole track or deep hole track so going whole track or deep hole track so going whole track or deep hole track with high reality meaning it's not like with high reality meaning it's not like with high reality meaning it's not like oh I have a fuzzy memory and I'm not oh I have a fuzzy memory and I'm not oh I have a fuzzy memory and I'm not sure if it's real like your real season sure if it's real like your real season sure if it's real like your real season scientologists are like oh yeah I was on scientologists are like oh yeah I was on scientologists are like oh yeah I was on this planet oh this time circling this this planet oh this time circling this this planet oh this time circling this before that I was eating for breakfast before that I was eating for breakfast before that I was eating for breakfast fascinating before the origin of life on fascinating before the origin of life on fascinating before the origin of life on Earth so so billions of years ago on a Earth so so billions of years ago on a Earth so so billions of years ago on a distant planet what you were eating for distant planet what you were eating for distant planet what you were eating for breakfast or other universes I wonder if breakfast or other universes I wonder if breakfast or other universes I wonder if that's a nice shortcut that's a nice shortcut that's a nice shortcut to sneak up to actual trauma that to sneak up to actual trauma that to sneak up to actual trauma that happened to you as a therapy device I happened to you as a therapy device I happened to you as a therapy device I just so putting Scientology aside I just just so putting Scientology aside I just just so putting Scientology aside I just I'm thinking about as a technique for I'm thinking about as a technique for I'm thinking about as a technique for therapy discussing basically you know therapy discussing basically you know therapy discussing basically you know some people have trauma and one of the some people have trauma and one of the some people have trauma and one of the things you do with therapy is like bring things you do with therapy is like bring things you do with therapy is like bring the trauma to the surface that's the the trauma to the surface that's the the trauma to the surface that's the stuff that happened to your childhood stuff that happened to your childhood stuff that happened to your childhood maybe it's a more convenient thing to do maybe it's a more convenient thing to do maybe it's a more convenient thing to do to kind of map that indirectly onto a to kind of map that indirectly onto a to kind of map that indirectly onto a fictitious telling of what happened to fictitious telling of what happened to fictitious telling of what happened to you you you something like that trauma on a distant something like that trauma on a distant something like that trauma on a distant planet elsewhere it could be it could be planet elsewhere it could be it could be planet elsewhere it could be it could be a nice way to sneak up to it yeah and it a nice way to sneak up to it yeah and it a nice way to sneak up to it yeah and it goes both flows there not just things goes both flows there not just things goes both flows there not just things that have happened to you but things that have happened to you but things that have happened to you but things that you've done so you know you could that you've done so you know you could that you've done so you know you could be being asked for you know you'd be be being asked for you know you'd be be being asked for you know you'd be going back to I wiped out a civilization going back to I wiped out a civilization going back to I wiped out a civilization I don't know this race on this planet oh I don't know this race on this planet oh I don't know this race on this planet oh wow oh yeah

wow oh yeah wow oh yeah but so you can actually take on a whole but so you can actually take on a whole but so you can actually take on a whole new guilt oh yeah so I I okay all right new guilt oh yeah so I I okay all right new guilt oh yeah so I I okay all right you might actually take on a lot more you might actually take on a lot more you might actually take on a lot more guilt and let go of guilt and let go of guilt and let go of because if you feel like that because if you feel like that because if you feel like that self-critical aspect of the brain self-critical aspect of the brain self-critical aspect of the brain boy because I'm my brain is really boy because I'm my brain is really boy because I'm my brain is really self-critical so I could see myself self-critical so I could see myself self-critical so I could see myself manufacturing if I was forced to over manufacturing if I was forced to over manufacturing if I was forced to over time some kind of story where I did time some kind of story where I did time some kind of story where I did genocide a whole population of like genocide a whole population of like genocide a whole population of like Pluto or something at a different Pluto or something at a different Pluto or something at a different distant is somewhere in Alpha Centauri distant is somewhere in Alpha Centauri distant is somewhere in Alpha Centauri yeah so I mean and now I walk around yeah so I mean and now I walk around yeah so I mean and now I walk around with that guilt wait am I actually a with that guilt wait am I actually a with that guilt wait am I actually a horrible person so imagine though if you horrible person so imagine though if you horrible person so imagine though if you had not only are you looking at you know had not only are you looking at you know had not only are you looking at you know if someone's being self-critical trying if someone's being self-critical trying if someone's being self-critical trying to identify destructive patterns of to identify destructive patterns of to identify destructive patterns of behavior in your present life but what behavior in your present life but what behavior in your present life but what if you really internalize the fact that if you really internalize the fact that if you really internalize the fact that I haven't only been this way I haven't only been this way I haven't only been this way for 40 years I've been this way for 40 for 40 years I've been this way for 40 for 40 years I've been this way for 40 trillion years yeah trillion years yeah trillion years yeah but Scientology would argue but Scientology would argue but Scientology would argue that as a Satan you're inherently good that as a Satan you're inherently good that as a Satan you're inherently good all things are basically good so the the all things are basically good so the the all things are basically good so the the goal of the auditing procedure there goal of the auditing procedure there goal of the auditing procedure there would be essentially to figure out find would be essentially to figure out find would be essentially to figure out find the moment find what it was that caused the moment find what it was that caused the moment find what it was that caused you you you to make that shift as a being to make that shift as a being to make that shift as a being to dramatize you know evil intentions to dramatize you know evil intentions to dramatize you know evil intentions and stuff like that so even if you're and stuff like that so even if you're and stuff like that so even if you're going whole track going whole track going whole track looking at all the horrible things looking at all the horrible things looking at all the horrible things you've done the goal is to find like you've done the goal is to find like you've done the goal is to find like well what happened just prior to that well what happened just prior to that well what happened just prior to that what was like the prior confusion and what was like the prior confusion and what was like the prior confusion and what what did you misunderstand just what what did you misunderstand just what what did you misunderstand just before that and whatnot so the goal is before that and whatnot so the goal is before that and whatnot so the goal is basically so scientologists after a lot basically so scientologists after a lot basically so scientologists after a lot of auditing are also convinced that they

of auditing are also convinced that they of auditing are also convinced that they have fixed the reason have fixed the reason have fixed the reason for any non-optimum for any non-optimum for any non-optimum conduct and underlying this is a belief conduct and underlying this is a belief conduct and underlying this is a belief that at the core we're all good yes that at the core we're all good yes that at the core we're all good yes there's a lot of really powerful ideas there's a lot of really powerful ideas there's a lot of really powerful ideas in Scientology which is so interesting in Scientology which is so interesting in Scientology which is so interesting that it goes wrong yeah okay uh what that it goes wrong yeah okay uh what that it goes wrong yeah okay uh what about the training you mentioned the about the training you mentioned the about the training you mentioned the training of the auditor that's really training of the auditor that's really training of the auditor that's really interesting so what's how lengthy is interesting so what's how lengthy is interesting so what's how lengthy is that process it can take years that process it can take years that process it can take years I mean one of that question I want to I mean one of that question I want to I mean one of that question I want to ask is are people in Sea org like as an ask is are people in Sea org like as an ask is are people in Sea org like as an auditor do you believe everything how auditor do you believe everything how auditor do you believe everything how much much much um is there a crisis of faith that um is there a crisis of faith that um is there a crisis of faith that Creeps in in religion you have a crisis Creeps in in religion you have a crisis Creeps in in religion you have a crisis of faith when you start to wonder like of faith when you start to wonder like of faith when you start to wonder like does God even exist so in this case how does God even exist so in this case how does God even exist so in this case how often do you start to doubt often do you start to doubt often do you start to doubt that some of the core beliefs of that some of the core beliefs of that some of the core beliefs of Scientology are false Scientology are false Scientology are false Scientology would say that Scientology Scientology would say that Scientology Scientology would say that Scientology is not about beliefs it's about a is not about beliefs it's about a is not about beliefs it's about a application of the techniques of application of the techniques of application of the techniques of Scientology auditing to improve Scientology auditing to improve Scientology auditing to improve someone's spiritual awareness and someone's spiritual awareness and someone's spiritual awareness and ability so the belief level of ability so the belief level of ability so the belief level of Scientology is pretty much the stuff Scientology is pretty much the stuff Scientology is pretty much the stuff we've already discussed the we've already discussed the we've already discussed the effectiveness of the auditing process so effectiveness of the auditing process so effectiveness of the auditing process so the effectiveness of the auditing the effectiveness of the auditing the effectiveness of the auditing process is one of the things Hubbard process is one of the things Hubbard process is one of the things Hubbard says is that standard Tech standard says is that standard Tech standard says is that standard Tech standard Scientology they call it the tech the Scientology they call it the tech the Scientology they call it the tech the technology of how to deliver auditing technology of how to deliver auditing technology of how to deliver auditing standard Tech Works 100 of the time when standard Tech Works 100 of the time when standard Tech Works 100 of the time when applied 100 correctly well that's kind applied 100 correctly well that's kind applied 100 correctly well that's kind of unfalsifiable right yeah because of unfalsifiable right yeah because of unfalsifiable right yeah because anytime it doesn't work it wasn't anytime it doesn't work it wasn't anytime it doesn't work it wasn't applied correctly exactly applied correctly exactly applied correctly exactly that's a nice little uh escape hatch to

that's a nice little uh escape hatch to that's a nice little uh escape hatch to pull on having a crisis of faith it pull on having a crisis of faith it pull on having a crisis of faith it didn't work well didn't work well didn't work well then obviously it wasn't applied then obviously it wasn't applied then obviously it wasn't applied correctly that's where quality control correctly that's where quality control correctly that's where quality control comes in their job is to nitpick and you comes in their job is to nitpick and you comes in their job is to nitpick and you can always find one thing that wasn't can always find one thing that wasn't can always find one thing that wasn't done correctly communism done correctly communism done correctly communism uh didn't work because it wasn't uh didn't work because it wasn't uh didn't work because it wasn't implemented correctly it's the it's implemented correctly it's the it's implemented correctly it's the it's always it's always it's always an escape always it's always it's always an escape always it's always it's always an escape hatch with ideologies that's right sure hatch with ideologies that's right sure hatch with ideologies that's right sure that's right I would probably argue that that's right I would probably argue that that's right I would probably argue that Auditors Auditors Auditors um are not in a position of having many um are not in a position of having many um are not in a position of having many crisis of Faith because actually they're crisis of Faith because actually they're crisis of Faith because actually they're usually seeing people for the most part usually seeing people for the most part usually seeing people for the most part improve in some ways through the process improve in some ways through the process improve in some ways through the process of auditing now auditing can create like of auditing now auditing can create like of auditing now auditing can create like a state somewhat of a euphoric State you a state somewhat of a euphoric State you a state somewhat of a euphoric State you feel great you're just blown out of your feel great you're just blown out of your feel great you're just blown out of your head you know you feel on top of the head you know you feel on top of the head you know you feel on top of the world I've had that in some of my world I've had that in some of my world I've had that in some of my auditing as an auditor sorry no as a auditing as an auditor sorry no as a auditing as an auditor sorry no as a person receiving auditing okay and so my person receiving auditing okay and so my person receiving auditing okay and so my point is as an auditor doing a lot of point is as an auditor doing a lot of point is as an auditor doing a lot of auditing you know you're going to have auditing you know you're going to have auditing you know you're going to have someone in front of you called the the someone in front of you called the the someone in front of you called the the pre-clear is the person in front of you pre-clear is the person in front of you pre-clear is the person in front of you who's getting the auditing called the PC who's getting the auditing called the PC who's getting the auditing called the PC or the pre-clear or the pre-clear or the pre-clear they see over and over and over again they see over and over and over again they see over and over and over again these PCS having these sort of euphoric these PCS having these sort of euphoric these PCS having these sort of euphoric States and floating needles and I feel States and floating needles and I feel States and floating needles and I feel great and fantastic oh thanks you saved great and fantastic oh thanks you saved great and fantastic oh thanks you saved my life like my life like my life like I've always said if Scientology if I've always said if Scientology if I've always said if Scientology if people didn't find Scientology helpful people didn't find Scientology helpful people didn't find Scientology helpful nobody would ever stay in Scientology nobody would ever stay in Scientology nobody would ever stay in Scientology right right right and so Auditors are pretty much the ones and so Auditors are pretty much the ones and so Auditors are pretty much the ones doing the heavy lifting of what it even doing the heavy lifting of what it even doing the heavy lifting of what it even means to be a Scientologist those guys means to be a Scientologist those guys means to be a Scientologist those guys aren't the ones that you end up aren't the ones that you end up aren't the ones that you end up um having crisis of faith I mean doing um having crisis of faith I mean doing um having crisis of faith I mean doing Scientology auditing it doesn't require Scientology auditing it doesn't require Scientology auditing it doesn't require that you believe just have faith that

that you believe just have faith that that you believe just have faith that you believe something you just have to you believe something you just have to you believe something you just have to go through these motions and go through these motions and go through these motions and scientologists one of the reasons scientologists one of the reasons scientologists one of the reasons scientologists think this is all scientologists think this is all scientologists think this is all scientific is because it's like I don't scientific is because it's like I don't scientific is because it's like I don't care if you believe why this works I care if you believe why this works I care if you believe why this works I care how you feel at the end of an care how you feel at the end of an care how you feel at the end of an auditing session and empirically auditing session and empirically auditing session and empirically speaking speaking speaking like anecdotal data is it actually seems like anecdotal data is it actually seems like anecdotal data is it actually seems to improve people's lives within the to improve people's lives within the to improve people's lives within the context so taking the outside world out context so taking the outside world out context so taking the outside world out of it within this particular of it within this particular of it within this particular organization organization organization you're actually measurably seeing you're actually measurably seeing you're actually measurably seeing Improvement yes is that is that some Improvement yes is that is that some Improvement yes is that is that some degree real because like if you look at degree real because like if you look at degree real because like if you look at a book like Animal Farm a book like Animal Farm a book like Animal Farm where the pigs start to rule the other where the pigs start to rule the other where the pigs start to rule the other animals and over time the life of the animals and over time the life of the animals and over time the life of the animals gets worse and worse and worse animals gets worse and worse and worse animals gets worse and worse and worse while the pigs keep saying that's while the pigs keep saying that's while the pigs keep saying that's actually getting better and better and actually getting better and better and actually getting better and better and better again communism same thing the better again communism same thing the better again communism same thing the the rationing is getting worse and worse the rationing is getting worse and worse the rationing is getting worse and worse and worse less and less food but just and worse less and less food but just and worse less and less food but just constant reporting uh that there's more constant reporting uh that there's more constant reporting uh that there's more and more food where we're winning and more food where we're winning and more food where we're winning hashtag I would argue that what you've hashtag I would argue that what you've hashtag I would argue that what you've just described it could be just described it could be just described it could be an identical description of what it an identical description of what it an identical description of what it feels like and what it means to go up feels like and what it means to go up feels like and what it means to go up scientology's bridge to total freedom scientology's bridge to total freedom scientology's bridge to total freedom you are reinforcing to yourself that you are reinforcing to yourself that you are reinforcing to yourself that everything's getting better and better everything's getting better and better everything's getting better and better and better and and you'd be like and better and and you'd be like and better and and you'd be like you don't spend time with your family you don't spend time with your family you don't spend time with your family anymore yeah you're broke even though anymore yeah you're broke even though anymore yeah you're broke even though you make a lot of money you're always you make a lot of money you're always you make a lot of money you're always stressed you're you're at the beck and stressed you're you're at the beck and stressed you're you're at the beck and call of these people who seem to run call of these people who seem to run call of these people who seem to run your run your lives like how a your run your lives like how a your run your lives like how a Scientologist feels about their own life Scientologist feels about their own life Scientologist feels about their own life is is is um it's very interesting to compare that um it's very interesting to compare that um it's very interesting to compare that to how that person's life looks to their

to how that person's life looks to their to how that person's life looks to their non-scientology family members I get non-scientology family members I get non-scientology family members I get contacted by a lot of people who've contacted by a lot of people who've contacted by a lot of people who've never been in Scientology but like I got never been in Scientology but like I got never been in Scientology but like I got a family member who's who's really deep a family member who's who's really deep a family member who's who's really deep and I just can you help me understand and I just can you help me understand and I just can you help me understand some things why is this person's life some things why is this person's life some things why is this person's life like this why is this person's life like like this why is this person's life like like this why is this person's life like this this this so I I don't want to say that so I I don't want to say that so I I don't want to say that scientologists do not actually I don't scientologists do not actually I don't scientologists do not actually I don't want to say oh it's all on their heads want to say oh it's all on their heads want to say oh it's all on their heads they think they're being helped but they think they're being helped but they think they're being helped but they're really not that doesn't feel they're really not that doesn't feel they're really not that doesn't feel honest you know but it's this thing honest you know but it's this thing honest you know but it's this thing where if Scientology was just where if Scientology was just where if Scientology was just getting auditing getting auditing getting auditing when you wanted when you wanted when you wanted about the subjects you wanted and you about the subjects you wanted and you about the subjects you wanted and you could take it or leave it that would be could take it or leave it that would be could take it or leave it that would be fine fine fine it's it's the fact that it's part and it's it's the fact that it's part and it's it's the fact that it's part and parcel to this entire organization and parcel to this entire organization and parcel to this entire organization and this entire experience this entire experience this entire experience that has as a part of that experience that has as a part of that experience that has as a part of that experience taking everything from you demanding taking everything from you demanding taking everything from you demanding everything from you controlling who you everything from you controlling who you everything from you controlling who you can speak with can speak with can speak with controlling who you can have controlling who you can have controlling who you can have relationships with who you have to erase relationships with who you have to erase relationships with who you have to erase from your life this is where and it's from your life this is where and it's from your life this is where and it's hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint on this is where Scientology goes wrong on this is where Scientology goes wrong on this is where Scientology goes wrong it's really hard to do that because the it's really hard to do that because the it's really hard to do that because the good parts of Scientology and the bad good parts of Scientology and the bad good parts of Scientology and the bad parts of Scientology parts of Scientology parts of Scientology are all just Scientology yeah so there's are all just Scientology yeah so there's are all just Scientology yeah so there's definition was bad for you and it's definition was bad for you and it's definition was bad for you and it's probably in the beginning is bad for you probably in the beginning is bad for you probably in the beginning is bad for you um this almost just sounds like a um this almost just sounds like a um this almost just sounds like a template of a toxic relationship you template of a toxic relationship you template of a toxic relationship you know there's a bunch of stuff in this know there's a bunch of stuff in this know there's a bunch of stuff in this world that's just not good for you so world that's just not good for you so world that's just not good for you so the uh the authority the authoritarian

the uh the authority the authoritarian the uh the authority the authoritarian says like I'm just protecting you by says like I'm just protecting you by says like I'm just protecting you by blocking you off from those negative blocking you off from those negative blocking you off from those negative things and they're probably they are things and they're probably they are things and they're probably they are probably negative things but then this probably negative things but then this probably negative things but then this like uh this Freedom starts closing in like uh this Freedom starts closing in like uh this Freedom starts closing in to where you can't no longer speak to where you can't no longer speak to where you can't no longer speak freely think freely act freely and freely think freely act freely and freely think freely act freely and there's some I mean that's why sort of there's some I mean that's why sort of there's some I mean that's why sort of power corrupts and absolute power power corrupts and absolute power power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely that person doing corrupts absolutely that person doing corrupts absolutely that person doing the controlling the controlling the controlling actually starts getting that like actually starts getting that like actually starts getting that like dopamine Rush of the controller that's dopamine Rush of the controller that's dopamine Rush of the controller that's exciting and it's a vicious negative exciting and it's a vicious negative exciting and it's a vicious negative cycle so you start out as it it starts cycle so you start out as it it starts cycle so you start out as it it starts out good because you're trying to do out good because you're trying to do out good because you're trying to do good for the person good for the person good for the person um but then it somehow goes to shit yeah um but then it somehow goes to shit yeah um but then it somehow goes to shit yeah so what what uh what are the aspects so what what uh what are the aspects so what what uh what are the aspects that just that are often controlled that just that are often controlled that just that are often controlled about about about about a person who's in Psychology about a person who's in Psychology about a person who's in Psychology especially sea work well especially sea work well especially sea work well information control access to the information control access to the information control access to the internet access to any information internet access to any information internet access to any information critical of Scientology is some internet critical of Scientology is some internet critical of Scientology is some internet access load access load access load public Scientologist has no restrictions public Scientologist has no restrictions public Scientologist has no restrictions to their access to the internet they're to their access to the internet they're to their access to the internet they're just not allowed to read anything just not allowed to read anything just not allowed to read anything critical of Scientology critical of Scientology critical of Scientology oh okay so there's self they're supposed oh okay so there's self they're supposed oh okay so there's self they're supposed to self-control what they read or not to self-control what they read or not to self-control what they read or not and what's the explanation and what's the explanation and what's the explanation is is it always assumed that anything is is it always assumed that anything is is it always assumed that anything critical Scientology is a lie critical Scientology is a lie critical Scientology is a lie they really push this thing that uh they really push this thing that uh they really push this thing that uh unless you've been in a Scientology unless you've been in a Scientology unless you've been in a Scientology organization yourself or unless you've organization yourself or unless you've organization yourself or unless you've actually been a Scientologist You

actually been a Scientologist You actually been a Scientologist You couldn't possibly know the truth about couldn't possibly know the truth about couldn't possibly know the truth about scientology if you're only getting scientology if you're only getting scientology if you're only getting information from people who aren't information from people who aren't information from people who aren't members or former members then you members or former members then you members or former members then you couldn't possibly be getting the correct couldn't possibly be getting the correct couldn't possibly be getting the correct information now they they don't realize information now they they don't realize information now they they don't realize the math there doesn't make sense if you the math there doesn't make sense if you the math there doesn't make sense if you can find out the true information by can find out the true information by can find out the true information by becoming and being a Scientologist then becoming and being a Scientologist then becoming and being a Scientologist then that means you can get the correct that means you can get the correct that means you can get the correct information from a former Scientologist information from a former Scientologist information from a former Scientologist because they traveled that path and they because they traveled that path and they because they traveled that path and they got the correct information so they got the correct information so they got the correct information so they still create this on they try to create still create this on they try to create still create this on they try to create this unfalsifiable Loop where unless you this unfalsifiable Loop where unless you this unfalsifiable Loop where unless you are personally doing it you don't have are personally doing it you don't have are personally doing it you don't have correct information and you go what correct information and you go what correct information and you go what about the people who did personally do about the people who did personally do about the people who did personally do it it it got the correct information got the correct information got the correct information left left left and are now sharing that with others and are now sharing that with others and are now sharing that with others well no those are lies well okay so so well no those are lies well okay so so well no those are lies well okay so so just anything you don't like is a lie just anything you don't like is a lie just anything you don't like is a lie then you know yeah pretty much that's then you know yeah pretty much that's then you know yeah pretty much that's kind of how that's kind of how it works kind of how that's kind of how it works kind of how that's kind of how it works so what about the control of negative so what about the control of negative so what about the control of negative information on the internet uh what like information on the internet uh what like information on the internet uh what like the actual operations I I I've you know the actual operations I I I've you know the actual operations I I I've you know preparing I should admit I don't know preparing I should admit I don't know preparing I should admit I don't know too much about scientology I was doing a too much about scientology I was doing a too much about scientology I was doing a bunch of reading and the Wikipedia page bunch of reading and the Wikipedia page bunch of reading and the Wikipedia page on Scientology interestingly enough is on Scientology interestingly enough is on Scientology interestingly enough is not that negative about scientology not that negative about scientology not that negative about scientology um so like it made me ask um so like it made me ask um so like it made me ask you know you have to be a little bit you know you have to be a little bit you know you have to be a little bit careful how you consume stuff from careful how you consume stuff from careful how you consume stuff from Wikipedia you have to consider because Wikipedia you have to consider because Wikipedia you have to consider because money can buy things there there's money can buy things there there's money can buy things there there's there's certain special interests and so there's certain special interests and so there's certain special interests and so on but like it made me wonder like like on but like it made me wonder like like on but like it made me wonder like like with a lot of controversial topics what with a lot of controversial topics what with a lot of controversial topics what is true and where do I look uh where do is true and where do I look uh where do is true and where do I look uh where do I go for truth so like how much sort of I go for truth so like how much sort of I go for truth so like how much sort of deliberate action is there to control deliberate action is there to control deliberate action is there to control what is true on the internet by

what is true on the internet by what is true on the internet by Scientology well these days they've Scientology well these days they've Scientology well these days they've pretty much I think thrown in the towel pretty much I think thrown in the towel pretty much I think thrown in the towel but they have the Scientology middle but they have the Scientology middle but they have the Scientology middle management management management was editing Wikipedia so often from IP was editing Wikipedia so often from IP was editing Wikipedia so often from IP addresses that were traced back to the addresses that were traced back to the addresses that were traced back to the Scientology buildings that uh Wikipedia Scientology buildings that uh Wikipedia Scientology buildings that uh Wikipedia locked them out from any IP addresses locked them out from any IP addresses locked them out from any IP addresses associated with Scientology from being associated with Scientology from being associated with Scientology from being able to edit it it's like the able to edit it it's like the able to edit it it's like the Scientology was so infatuated with Scientology was so infatuated with Scientology was so infatuated with trying to control the information and in trying to control the information and in trying to control the information and in the early days of the internet they had the early days of the internet they had the early days of the internet they had a certain degree of success with that a certain degree of success with that a certain degree of success with that they just it's just hopeless these days they just it's just hopeless these days they just it's just hopeless these days it's the scale the scale is not there it's the scale the scale is not there it's the scale the scale is not there but actually I'm very surprised how uh but actually I'm very surprised how uh but actually I'm very surprised how uh bot Farms how effective they can be at a bot Farms how effective they can be at a bot Farms how effective they can be at a very small scale if you just pay 100 very small scale if you just pay 100 very small scale if you just pay 100 people just spread narratives but the people just spread narratives but the people just spread narratives but the the the the bad stuff the the reason the the the bad stuff the the reason the the the bad stuff the the reason that's effective is you can kind of that's effective is you can kind of that's effective is you can kind of create conspiracy theories create conspiracy theories create conspiracy theories that create chaos and nobody knows what that create chaos and nobody knows what that create chaos and nobody knows what is true that bot Farms can do but is true that bot Farms can do but is true that bot Farms can do but actually really nicely control a actually really nicely control a actually really nicely control a narrative is hard so to create chaos narrative is hard so to create chaos narrative is hard so to create chaos it's easier to do to to basically say it's easier to do to to basically say it's easier to do to to basically say like like like um you know do PR control is very hard um you know do PR control is very hard um you know do PR control is very hard yeah so especially on the internet yeah so especially on the internet yeah so especially on the internet especially when the critical eye especially when the critical eye especially when the critical eye is there the internet can smell bullshit is there the internet can smell bullshit is there the internet can smell bullshit which is one of the really really which is one of the really really which is one of the really really powerful things about the internet and I powerful things about the internet and I powerful things about the internet and I gotta tell you it's one of the reasons I gotta tell you it's one of the reasons I gotta tell you it's one of the reasons I do my YouTube channel it's one of the do my YouTube channel it's one of the do my YouTube channel it's one of the reasons I decided to upload every day reasons I decided to upload every day reasons I decided to upload every day I've uploaded every day for the last six I've uploaded every day for the last six I've uploaded every day for the last six months I just wanted there to be a months I just wanted there to be a months I just wanted there to be a Non-Stop flow Non-Stop flow Non-Stop flow of information of any kind in any of information of any kind in any of information of any kind in any variety as long as it's fair and

variety as long as it's fair and variety as long as it's fair and balanced intelligent interesting that balanced intelligent interesting that balanced intelligent interesting that scientologists who stumble upon the scientologists who stumble upon the scientologists who stumble upon the internet will go oh look someone's internet will go oh look someone's internet will go oh look someone's talking about my thing let's see what talking about my thing let's see what talking about my thing let's see what they got going on they got going on they got going on and and I I know this guy the fact that and and I I know this guy the fact that and and I I know this guy the fact that Scientology crushes so much information Scientology crushes so much information Scientology crushes so much information but before before YouTube before like I but before before YouTube before like I but before before YouTube before like I have the only like big Scientology have the only like big Scientology have the only like big Scientology Channel and that only got big in the Channel and that only got big in the Channel and that only got big in the last six months okay so before that last six months okay so before that last six months okay so before that there were channels there was things but there were channels there was things but there were channels there was things but it's almost like it took a lot of uh it's almost like it took a lot of uh it's almost like it took a lot of uh like people felt like it took a lot of like people felt like it took a lot of like people felt like it took a lot of bravery and courage to like say bravery and courage to like say bravery and courage to like say something on the Internet about something on the Internet about something on the Internet about scientology and so people would pop up scientology and so people would pop up scientology and so people would pop up and there weren't very many voices and I and there weren't very many voices and I and there weren't very many voices and I was like I want this to be prolific I was like I want this to be prolific I was like I want this to be prolific I want I want to be prolific I want to want I want to be prolific I want to want I want to be prolific I want to have 30 or 40 other channels being have 30 or 40 other channels being have 30 or 40 other channels being prolific so that Scientology couldn't prolific so that Scientology couldn't prolific so that Scientology couldn't possibly successfully control the possibly successfully control the possibly successfully control the narrative about it have you been narrative about it have you been narrative about it have you been personally attacked aaronsmithlevin.com personally attacked aaronsmithlevin.com personally attacked aaronsmithlevin.com is a website created by the Church of is a website created by the Church of is a website created by the Church of Scientology have you seen that no what Scientology have you seen that no what Scientology have you seen that no what kind of content is on there oh Aaron's kind of content is on there oh Aaron's kind of content is on there oh Aaron's an abusive father and a horrible husband an abusive father and a horrible husband an abusive father and a horrible husband and the worst staff member we've ever and the worst staff member we've ever and the worst staff member we've ever had and had and had and um oh I openly talk about it because I um oh I openly talk about it because I um oh I openly talk about it because I think the fact that Scientology even think the fact that Scientology even think the fact that Scientology even does things like that is fucking does things like that is fucking does things like that is fucking hilarious yeah and uh anything they try hilarious yeah and uh anything they try hilarious yeah and uh anything they try to do to me the way I think about it is to do to me the way I think about it is to do to me the way I think about it is you know you're just giving me an you know you're just giving me an you know you're just giving me an opportunity to turn the mirror back on opportunity to turn the mirror back on opportunity to turn the mirror back on you and show everyone how horrible you you and show everyone how horrible you you and show everyone how horrible you are does it stick no so you find that are does it stick no so you find that are does it stick no so you find that there is ineffective it's completely there is ineffective it's completely there is ineffective it's completely ineffective they're so over the top and ineffective they're so over the top and ineffective they're so over the top and um well I'll tell you how the website

um well I'll tell you how the website um well I'll tell you how the website even came into being so I was on the even came into being so I was on the even came into being so I was on the first season of Leah Remini Scientology first season of Leah Remini Scientology first season of Leah Remini Scientology in the aftermath in the aftermath in the aftermath every single person who participated in every single person who participated in every single person who participated in that show got a website that show got a website that show got a website it's just that everyone else's website it's just that everyone else's website it's just that everyone else's website is like who is markheadly.com who is is like who is markheadly.com who is is like who is markheadly.com who is Mike render.com well I bought who is Mike render.com well I bought who is Mike render.com well I bought who is aaronsmithlevin.com but I was too stupid aaronsmithlevin.com but I was too stupid aaronsmithlevin.com but I was too stupid to buy Aaron I didn't buy aaronsmith to buy Aaron I didn't buy aaronsmith to buy Aaron I didn't buy aaronsmith 11.com so I'm actually the only one who 11.com so I'm actually the only one who 11.com so I'm actually the only one who has a website in their name oh nice yeah has a website in their name oh nice yeah has a website in their name oh nice yeah and I'm like completely got a lawyer to and I'm like completely got a lawyer to and I'm like completely got a lawyer to get it back for me but I'm like why I get it back for me but I'm like why I get it back for me but I'm like why I want everyone to see what a nasty Petty want everyone to see what a nasty Petty want everyone to see what a nasty Petty disgusting organization that this is and disgusting organization that this is and disgusting organization that this is and nobody believes anything Scientology nobody believes anything Scientology nobody believes anything Scientology says anyway does the general public know says anyway does the general public know says anyway does the general public know that it comes from Scientology it says that it comes from Scientology it says that it comes from Scientology it says right on the bottom copyright 2000 right on the bottom copyright 2000 right on the bottom copyright 2000 whatever Church of Scientology whatever Church of Scientology whatever Church of Scientology International like they didn't even try International like they didn't even try International like they didn't even try to hide it so aaronsmithlevin.com yeah a to hide it so aaronsmithlevin.com yeah a to hide it so aaronsmithlevin.com yeah a man with no moral compass Aerosmith who man with no moral compass Aerosmith who man with no moral compass Aerosmith who is he really Aaron Smith Levin a man is he really Aaron Smith Levin a man is he really Aaron Smith Levin a man with no moral compass read about Aaron with no moral compass read about Aaron with no moral compass read about Aaron Smith Levins an angry man spreading hate Smith Levins an angry man spreading hate Smith Levins an angry man spreading hate from from the internet's Shadows from from the internet's Shadows from from the internet's Shadows open mouth shot open mouth shot open mouth shot and you're saying like at the wow and you're saying like at the wow and you're saying like at the wow there's there's testimonies oh there's there's there's testimonies oh there's there's there's testimonies oh there's videos from former co-workers the videos from former co-workers the videos from former co-workers the slightest thing just sets him off and he slightest thing just sets him off and he slightest thing just sets him off and he just goes totally nuts well that one is just goes totally nuts well that one is just goes totally nuts well that one is true I didn't understand why you slapped true I didn't understand why you slapped true I didn't understand why you slapped me before the interview me before the interview me before the interview got links to everyone love this website got links to everyone love this website got links to everyone love this website on the bottom it's so funny okay on the bottom it's so funny okay on the bottom it's so funny okay 2021 in terms of Scientology

2021 in terms of Scientology 2021 in terms of Scientology International All Rights Reserved here's International All Rights Reserved here's International All Rights Reserved here's an example of just scientology's an example of just scientology's an example of just scientology's complete lack of self-awareness so me complete lack of self-awareness so me complete lack of self-awareness so me and Mike rinder we went have these on and Mike rinder we went have these on and Mike rinder we went have these on like a house flip project right you know like a house flip project right you know like a house flip project right you know hi grinder you know Mike render do I you hi grinder you know Mike render do I you hi grinder you know Mike render do I you gave me a bobble head of the guy gave me a bobble head of the guy gave me a bobble head of the guy um I don't I don't know him I just I um I don't I don't know him I just I um I don't I don't know him I just I would like to talk to him about him but would like to talk to him about him but would like to talk to him about him but this uh there's a very fine this uh there's a very fine this uh there's a very fine gentleman here with a bobble head the gentleman here with a bobble head the gentleman here with a bobble head the reason we agreed that the bobble head is reason we agreed that the bobble head is reason we agreed that the bobble head is because on Mike rinder's hate site because on Mike rinder's hate site because on Mike rinder's hate site Scientology created a gif or a gif how Scientology created a gif or a gif how Scientology created a gif or a gif how do you set what's the right way to say do you set what's the right way to say do you set what's the right way to say it the correct way is GIF GIF good yeah it the correct way is GIF GIF good yeah it the correct way is GIF GIF good yeah Scientology created a gif of Mike rinder Scientology created a gif of Mike rinder Scientology created a gif of Mike rinder as a bobble head it was an insult like as a bobble head it was an insult like as a bobble head it was an insult like oh all he does is sit next to Leah oh all he does is sit next to Leah oh all he does is sit next to Leah Remini and go yes Leah yes Leah and so Remini and go yes Leah yes Leah and so Remini and go yes Leah yes Leah and so they they made a gif of him with a they they made a gif of him with a they they made a gif of him with a bobble head so we were like we're gonna bobble head so we were like we're gonna bobble head so we were like we're gonna make Mike rinder bobble heads and we're make Mike rinder bobble heads and we're make Mike rinder bobble heads and we're gonna sell them on the spshop.com to gonna sell them on the spshop.com to gonna sell them on the spshop.com to raise money for the aftermath Foundation raise money for the aftermath Foundation raise money for the aftermath Foundation I love it yeah and now that I go out and I love it yeah and now that I go out and I love it yeah and now that I go out and buy yeah go to the ice cream shop.com buy yeah go to the ice cream shop.com buy yeah go to the ice cream shop.com and get yourself a micron or bobblehead and get yourself a micron or bobblehead and get yourself a micron or bobblehead now look now that my profile's getting a now look now that my profile's getting a now look now that my profile's getting a little higher this Head was made to little higher this Head was made to little higher this Head was made to Bobble like this yeah this smooth shiny Bobble like this yeah this smooth shiny Bobble like this yeah this smooth shiny head needs its own bobble head now it head needs its own bobble head now it head needs its own bobble head now it does 100 does I can't believe it doesn't does 100 does I can't believe it doesn't does 100 does I can't believe it doesn't exist so but let me show you so here's exist so but let me show you so here's exist so but let me show you so here's What's Happening Here we just hired some What's Happening Here we just hired some What's Happening Here we just hired some day laborers off of what like Craigslist day laborers off of what like Craigslist day laborers off of what like Craigslist or something yeah or something yeah or something yeah so what Scientology did was they had a so what Scientology did was they had a so what Scientology did was they had a private investigator stake out that the private investigator stake out that the private investigator stake out that the house flip project they were clearly house flip project they were clearly house flip project they were clearly running license plates of anyone who running license plates of anyone who running license plates of anyone who visited the property because otherwise visited the property because otherwise visited the property because otherwise otherwise how would they find out the

otherwise how would they find out the otherwise how would they find out the laborers names look do background checks laborers names look do background checks laborers names look do background checks on them to find out they had criminal on them to find out they had criminal on them to find out they had criminal records and they published this as if records and they published this as if records and they published this as if it's going to reflect negatively on me it's going to reflect negatively on me it's going to reflect negatively on me oh we hired someone to do work who had a oh we hired someone to do work who had a oh we hired someone to do work who had a criminal record who gives a shit do you criminal record who gives a shit do you criminal record who gives a shit do you know one of the biggest problems people know one of the biggest problems people know one of the biggest problems people with records have is finding employment with records have is finding employment with records have is finding employment there's nothing bad about hiring someone there's nothing bad about hiring someone there's nothing bad about hiring someone who's got a criminal record it doesn't who's got a criminal record it doesn't who's got a criminal record it doesn't reflect negatively on me but it shows reflect negatively on me but it shows reflect negatively on me but it shows you what they think about those people you what they think about those people you what they think about those people it shows you what they think about it shows you what they think about it shows you what they think about people who are trying to put their lives people who are trying to put their lives people who are trying to put their lives back together and maybe you know back together and maybe you know back together and maybe you know actually work for a living and it also actually work for a living and it also actually work for a living and it also shows that they're surveilling us like shows that they're surveilling us like shows that they're surveilling us like like they don't realize that putting like they don't realize that putting like they don't realize that putting this up they're publishing information this up they're publishing information this up they're publishing information that they could only have if they're that they could only have if they're that they could only have if they're surveilling me and Mike and it doesn't surveilling me and Mike and it doesn't surveilling me and Mike and it doesn't occur to them maybe we shouldn't put occur to them maybe we shouldn't put occur to them maybe we shouldn't put that up just the general process that up just the general process that up just the general process sad to say of Journalism sad to say of Journalism sad to say of Journalism where they're looking for any kind of where they're looking for any kind of where they're looking for any kind of dirt and it's they're trying to conjure dirt and it's they're trying to conjure dirt and it's they're trying to conjure up a story and there's something about up a story and there's something about up a story and there's something about drama and negative stories that get drama and negative stories that get drama and negative stories that get clicks and so on so this is a general clicks and so on so this is a general clicks and so on so this is a general process the more especially the more process the more especially the more process the more especially the more celebrity you become the more these celebrity you become the more these celebrity you become the more these kinds of attacks come and they they look kinds of attacks come and they they look kinds of attacks come and they they look for any kind of thing that could be you for any kind of thing that could be you for any kind of thing that could be you know it doesn't even have to be facts it know it doesn't even have to be facts it know it doesn't even have to be facts it could be could be could be just asking who is he really seems to just asking who is he really seems to just asking who is he really seems to have traction on the internet yeah what have traction on the internet yeah what have traction on the internet yeah what is the actual truth is the actual truth is the actual truth of the man you you keep claiming you are of the man you you keep claiming you are of the man you you keep claiming you are of the good man you keep claiming you of the good man you keep claiming you of the good man you keep claiming you are right it's fascinating uh but are right it's fascinating uh but are right it's fascinating uh but sometimes that can be effective uh but I sometimes that can be effective uh but I sometimes that can be effective uh but I think if you're being transparent and think if you're being transparent and think if you're being transparent and authentic and just putting yourself out

authentic and just putting yourself out authentic and just putting yourself out there completely in their story there completely in their story there completely in their story completely then that's the best way to completely then that's the best way to completely then that's the best way to fight it that's the other reason to be fight it that's the other reason to be fight it that's the other reason to be prolific on the internet right the prolific on the internet right the prolific on the internet right the reason Joe Rogan can't get canceled reason Joe Rogan can't get canceled reason Joe Rogan can't get canceled is because is because is because anyone can watch thousands of hours of anyone can watch thousands of hours of anyone can watch thousands of hours of the authentic Joe Rogan you can't the authentic Joe Rogan you can't the authentic Joe Rogan you can't misrepresent him because he spend misrepresent him because he spend misrepresent him because he spend thousands of hours representing himself thousands of hours representing himself thousands of hours representing himself genuinely yeah the nice thing when you genuinely yeah the nice thing when you genuinely yeah the nice thing when you representing yourself generally you representing yourself generally you representing yourself generally you should be a good person should be a good person should be a good person so if you're a good person then the so if you're a good person then the so if you're a good person then the internet will know you can smell out the internet will know you can smell out the internet will know you can smell out the bullshit who is David moscowage it's bullshit who is David moscowage it's bullshit who is David moscowage it's even like because you said L Ron Harbor even like because you said L Ron Harbor even like because you said L Ron Harbor founded Scientology yeah founded Scientology yeah founded Scientology yeah let's go to the story of how we let's go to the story of how we let's go to the story of how we transition from that to Dear miscarriage transition from that to Dear miscarriage transition from that to Dear miscarriage the current leader of Scientology the current leader of Scientology the current leader of Scientology uh he was actually not selected by El uh he was actually not selected by El uh he was actually not selected by El Ron Hubbard to take over but ended up Ron Hubbard to take over but ended up Ron Hubbard to take over but ended up usurfing power and taking over this usurfing power and taking over this usurfing power and taking over this sounds like Stalin and Trotsky sounds like Stalin and Trotsky sounds like Stalin and Trotsky similar story it's the it's the person similar story it's the it's the person similar story it's the it's the person oftentimes in the situation oftentimes in the situation oftentimes in the situation uh it's not the natural uh it's not the natural uh it's not the natural successor to power it's the one that successor to power it's the one that successor to power it's the one that takes power right I think the quote takes power right I think the quote takes power right I think the quote sometimes it gets attributed to David sometimes it gets attributed to David sometimes it gets attributed to David miscavige's um power power is not given miscavige's um power power is not given miscavige's um power power is not given it is assumed yeah something like that it is assumed yeah something like that it is assumed yeah something like that the last six years of Alvin Hubbard's the last six years of Alvin Hubbard's the last six years of Alvin Hubbard's life he was often a seclusion life he was often a seclusion life he was often a seclusion essentially hiding from lawsuits now by essentially hiding from lawsuits now by essentially hiding from lawsuits now by the time Hubbard went off into seclusion the time Hubbard went off into seclusion the time Hubbard went off into seclusion miscavige had sort of already risen up miscavige had sort of already risen up miscavige had sort of already risen up through the ranks of the sea through the ranks of the sea through the ranks of the sea organization now miscavige was like a organization now miscavige was like a organization now miscavige was like a teenager either like 11 12 13 or teenager either like 11 12 13 or teenager either like 11 12 13 or something like that miscavage was not

something like that miscavage was not something like that miscavage was not born into Scientology but he was a young born into Scientology but he was a young born into Scientology but he was a young a young boy when his father got into a young boy when his father got into a young boy when his father got into Scientology okay so miscavige did start Scientology okay so miscavige did start Scientology okay so miscavige did start working as a sea org member so there's working as a sea org member so there's working as a sea org member so there's one organization that existed to one organization that existed to one organization that existed to essentially serve Hubbard directly and essentially serve Hubbard directly and essentially serve Hubbard directly and to represent his interest and that was to represent his interest and that was to represent his interest and that was called The Commodore he was the called The Commodore he was the called The Commodore he was the Commodore of the sea organization The Commodore of the sea organization The Commodore of the sea organization The Commodores Messengers organization we're Commodores Messengers organization we're Commodores Messengers organization we're gonna call it the CML gonna call it the CML gonna call it the CML miscavige started working for the CMO um miscavige started working for the CMO um miscavige started working for the CMO um pretty early on in his sea org career by pretty early on in his sea org career by pretty early on in his sea org career by the way as did Mike render the way as did Mike render the way as did Mike render mini mic okay mini mic okay mini mic okay and so he just became known as a doer and so he just became known as a doer and so he just became known as a doer like a guy who'll get it done like a guy who'll get it done like a guy who'll get it done no excuses no stops you know get it done no excuses no stops you know get it done no excuses no stops you know get it done so so so he had made a name for himself in the he had made a name for himself in the he had made a name for himself in the CMO CMO CMO around the time around the time around the time by the time probably went off into by the time probably went off into by the time probably went off into seclusion now when he went off into seclusion now when he went off into seclusion now when he went off into seclusion he took two other CMO or I'm seclusion he took two other CMO or I'm seclusion he took two other CMO or I'm going to call him Messengers right going to call him Messengers right going to call him Messengers right commodore's Messengers he took two other commodore's Messengers he took two other commodore's Messengers he took two other Messengers with him patent any broker Messengers with him patent any broker Messengers with him patent any broker now it has been said by people Mike Mike now it has been said by people Mike Mike now it has been said by people Mike Mike rinder has told me he goes the reason rinder has told me he goes the reason rinder has told me he goes the reason Pat and Annie went off with lrh isn't Pat and Annie went off with lrh isn't Pat and Annie went off with lrh isn't necessarily because he desperately necessarily because he desperately necessarily because he desperately wanted them to but partly because we wanted them to but partly because we wanted them to but partly because we could afford to let them go we didn't could afford to let them go we didn't could afford to let them go we didn't necessarily need them sure okay and necessarily need them sure okay and necessarily need them sure okay and between the two of them Annie was the between the two of them Annie was the between the two of them Annie was the one who was like a really compassionate one who was like a really compassionate one who was like a really compassionate person person person intelligent person caring person was intelligent person caring person was intelligent person caring person was there a possible trajectory of this there a possible trajectory of this there a possible trajectory of this world where she was the one that took world where she was the one that took world where she was the one that took over yes in fact uh Pat and Annie broker over yes in fact uh Pat and Annie broker over yes in fact uh Pat and Annie broker were the two people that were supposed

were the two people that were supposed were the two people that were supposed to take over okay but because Pat and to take over okay but because Pat and to take over okay but because Pat and Annie were with Hubbard in seclusion Annie were with Hubbard in seclusion Annie were with Hubbard in seclusion miscavige miscavige miscavige basically had the complete run of the basically had the complete run of the basically had the complete run of the operation without any oversight from operation without any oversight from operation without any oversight from Hubbard the only way any information Hubbard the only way any information Hubbard the only way any information would get from Scientology world to would get from Scientology world to would get from Scientology world to Hubbard is miscavige and patbroker would Hubbard is miscavige and patbroker would Hubbard is miscavige and patbroker would meet at a confidential location and meet at a confidential location and meet at a confidential location and miscavige would give broker any miscavige would give broker any miscavige would give broker any information he wanted to go to lrh so if information he wanted to go to lrh so if information he wanted to go to lrh so if miscavage wanted to get rid of somebody miscavage wanted to get rid of somebody miscavage wanted to get rid of somebody all he had to do was feed lrh false all he had to do was feed lrh false all he had to do was feed lrh false information that this person was doing information that this person was doing information that this person was doing had been caught doing something had been caught doing something had been caught doing something treasonous treasonous treasonous and then he would get in response some and then he would get in response some and then he would get in response some order from L Ron Hubbard to get rid of order from L Ron Hubbard to get rid of order from L Ron Hubbard to get rid of this person having to so this person having to so this person having to so are there so many similarities between are there so many similarities between are there so many similarities between various communist regimes and fascist various communist regimes and fascist various communist regimes and fascist regimes well Hitler did the same thing regimes well Hitler did the same thing regimes well Hitler did the same thing when he uh became the supreme leader he when he uh became the supreme leader he when he uh became the supreme leader he had to take power had to take power had to take power yeah had to wait for the president to yeah had to wait for the president to yeah had to wait for the president to die but the whole the whole time there's die but the whole the whole time there's die but the whole the whole time there's a control of information and and a slow a control of information and and a slow a control of information and and a slow aggregation of power of course with aggregation of power of course with aggregation of power of course with Nations is different because if you Nations is different because if you Nations is different because if you control the military you control a lot control the military you control a lot control the military you control a lot so there's you have to also get the so there's you have to also get the so there's you have to also get the generals on your side and so on but I'm generals on your side and so on but I'm generals on your side and so on but I'm sure in this situation there is similar sure in this situation there is similar sure in this situation there is similar kind of Dynamics you have to get certain kind of Dynamics you have to get certain kind of Dynamics you have to get certain people on your side control the flow of people on your side control the flow of people on your side control the flow of information uh let the original founder information uh let the original founder information uh let the original founder the original leader die off yeah and the original leader die off yeah and the original leader die off yeah and make sure that you are the one that's make sure that you are the one that's make sure that you are the one that's left with the power right left with the power right left with the power right so whereas Pat and Annie are off with so whereas Pat and Annie are off with so whereas Pat and Annie are off with lrh lrh lrh all of scientology's attorneys and all of scientology's attorneys and all of scientology's attorneys and accountants and lobbyists and whatever

accountants and lobbyists and whatever accountants and lobbyists and whatever they all know Dave Dave's the one they they all know Dave Dave's the one they they all know Dave Dave's the one they deal with so you know lrh passes away deal with so you know lrh passes away deal with so you know lrh passes away Pat and Annie make this appearance Pat and Annie make this appearance Pat and Annie make this appearance nobody knows Pat Nanny everybody knows nobody knows Pat Nanny everybody knows nobody knows Pat Nanny everybody knows Dave Dave Dave and so he ended up getting rid of Pat and so he ended up getting rid of Pat and so he ended up getting rid of Pat and Nanny this is a very short perhaps and Nanny this is a very short perhaps and Nanny this is a very short perhaps slightly bastardized version of it of slightly bastardized version of it of slightly bastardized version of it of miscavige basically they had been they miscavige basically they had been they miscavige basically they had been they had been um ushering just suitcases of had been um ushering just suitcases of had been um ushering just suitcases of cash cash cash to lrun Hubbard during this time and you to lrun Hubbard during this time and you to lrun Hubbard during this time and you know like so you have miscavige handing know like so you have miscavige handing know like so you have miscavige handing boatloads of cash to Pat broker boatloads of cash to Pat broker boatloads of cash to Pat broker Pat would do crazy things like hide the Pat would do crazy things like hide the Pat would do crazy things like hide the money in the walls of houses and dig money in the walls of houses and dig money in the walls of houses and dig pits and everything so miscavige pits and everything so miscavige pits and everything so miscavige basically threatened to turn Pat broker basically threatened to turn Pat broker basically threatened to turn Pat broker over to the IRS for tax evasion that's over to the IRS for tax evasion that's over to the IRS for tax evasion that's pet broker's still alive is he a pet broker's still alive is he a pet broker's still alive is he a Scientologist or no no he basically went Scientologist or no no he basically went Scientologist or no no he basically went away and kept about it she died a away and kept about it she died a away and kept about it she died a handful of years ago she stayed a loyal handful of years ago she stayed a loyal handful of years ago she stayed a loyal sea org member until the very end sea org member until the very end sea org member until the very end but literally like Miss gavage put her but literally like Miss gavage put her but literally like Miss gavage put her on menial tasks like on menial tasks like on menial tasks like like she had no Authority whatsoever she like she had no Authority whatsoever she like she had no Authority whatsoever she was just put on menial tasks the washing was just put on menial tasks the washing was just put on menial tasks the washing dishes but not really groundskeeper just dishes but not really groundskeeper just dishes but not really groundskeeper just just stupid low-level assistant paper just stupid low-level assistant paper just stupid low-level assistant paper pusher stuff she never she never pusher stuff she never she never pusher stuff she never she never operated with any actual Authority even operated with any actual Authority even operated with any actual Authority even though she was supposed to be the one to though she was supposed to be the one to though she was supposed to be the one to take over her and Pat take over her and Pat take over her and Pat so on David miscavige so on David miscavige so on David miscavige difficult question but can you make uh difficult question but can you make uh difficult question but can you make uh both the case that he is a good man both the case that he is a good man both the case that he is a good man who's misunderstood and the case that

who's misunderstood and the case that who's misunderstood and the case that he's not a good man he's not a good man he's not a good man first of all I believe that miscavige is first of all I believe that miscavige is first of all I believe that miscavige is a True Believer in Scientology a True Believer in Scientology a True Believer in Scientology I do believe that that's a really I do believe that that's a really I do believe that that's a really important uh question do you think he important uh question do you think he important uh question do you think he believes in all the thetans and and all believes in all the thetans and and all believes in all the thetans and and all of that he definitely believes in that of that he definitely believes in that of that he definitely believes in that I think he believes in Scientology but I think he believes in Scientology but I think he believes in Scientology but in a different way than all other in a different way than all other in a different way than all other scientologists because he's aware of a scientologists because he's aware of a scientologists because he's aware of a lot more information yeah damaging lot more information yeah damaging lot more information yeah damaging information about L Ron Hubbard and the information about L Ron Hubbard and the information about L Ron Hubbard and the true story of Scientology than most true story of Scientology than most true story of Scientology than most people so his version of belief is people so his version of belief is people so his version of belief is different I'll give you one example here different I'll give you one example here different I'll give you one example here so scientology's bridge to total freedom so scientology's bridge to total freedom so scientology's bridge to total freedom goes up to what they call ot8 operating goes up to what they call ot8 operating goes up to what they call ot8 operating thing in level eight okay thing in level eight okay thing in level eight okay scientologists have all been told that L scientologists have all been told that L scientologists have all been told that L Ron Hubbard before he passed finished Ron Hubbard before he passed finished Ron Hubbard before he passed finished completed putting together completed putting together completed putting together OT 910 11 12 13 14 and 15. it's just OT 910 11 12 13 14 and 15. it's just OT 910 11 12 13 14 and 15. it's just sitting in the vault waiting to be sitting in the vault waiting to be sitting in the vault waiting to be released this is part of the Scientology released this is part of the Scientology released this is part of the Scientology belief system because remember I said belief system because remember I said belief system because remember I said growing up scientology's Bridge of total growing up scientology's Bridge of total growing up scientology's Bridge of total freedom is how you're supposed to get freedom is how you're supposed to get freedom is how you're supposed to get back to your native god-like state while back to your native god-like state while back to your native god-like state while all the scientologists in the world all the scientologists in the world all the scientologists in the world who've already done ot8 know that they who've already done ot8 know that they who've already done ot8 know that they haven't gotten there but they still haven't gotten there but they still haven't gotten there but they still believe in Scientology because they're believe in Scientology because they're believe in Scientology because they're told there's more but wait there's more told there's more but wait there's more told there's more but wait there's more Miss kavich knows there is no more Miss kavich knows there is no more Miss kavich knows there is no more so miscavige knows the fundamental so miscavige knows the fundamental so miscavige knows the fundamental promise of being able to achieve full promise of being able to achieve full promise of being able to achieve full operating thetan operating thetan operating thetan is a lie he knows L Ron Hubbard didn't is a lie he knows L Ron Hubbard didn't is a lie he knows L Ron Hubbard didn't accomplish that so therefore no one else accomplish that so therefore no one else accomplish that so therefore no one else is going to accomplish it as well if L is going to accomplish it as well if L is going to accomplish it as well if L Ron Hubbard had accomplished it Ron Hubbard had accomplished it Ron Hubbard had accomplished it Miss gavage knows well he didn't write Miss gavage knows well he didn't write Miss gavage knows well he didn't write it up he didn't leave instructions for it up he didn't leave instructions for it up he didn't leave instructions for how anyone else would accomplish it so

how anyone else would accomplish it so how anyone else would accomplish it so no matter what miscavige knows no matter what miscavige knows no matter what miscavige knows that the fundamental promise that what that the fundamental promise that what that the fundamental promise that what Scientology is saying they will be able Scientology is saying they will be able Scientology is saying they will be able to deliver to mankind to deliver to mankind to deliver to mankind is a lie is a lie is a lie now it's going to sound like I'm now it's going to sound like I'm now it's going to sound like I'm contradicting myself because it sounds contradicting myself because it sounds contradicting myself because it sounds like I'm saying well he knows it's like I'm saying well he knows it's like I'm saying well he knows it's bullshit bullshit bullshit I think he believes that L Ron Hubbard I think he believes that L Ron Hubbard I think he believes that L Ron Hubbard just failed just failed just failed to finish his work to finish his work to finish his work and he's kind of hoping over on Harper and he's kind of hoping over on Harper and he's kind of hoping over on Harper is going to come back to finish the job is going to come back to finish the job is going to come back to finish the job because elrond Hubbard did tell the because elrond Hubbard did tell the because elrond Hubbard did tell the people at International the people at International the people at International the International Management base at least a International Management base at least a International Management base at least a core of them that he was coming back now core of them that he was coming back now core of them that he was coming back now we know that David miscavige believed we know that David miscavige believed we know that David miscavige believed this because right around the 21 year this because right around the 21 year this because right around the 21 year mark he was supposed to come back like mark he was supposed to come back like mark he was supposed to come back like 21 years after he died right around the 21 years after he died right around the 21 years after he died right around the 21 year mark David miscavige was getting 21 year mark David miscavige was getting 21 year mark David miscavige was getting busy putting some things in place that busy putting some things in place that busy putting some things in place that had to get done in case El Ron Hubbard had to get done in case El Ron Hubbard had to get done in case El Ron Hubbard came back so we know he at least came back so we know he at least came back so we know he at least believed to that level Because he believed to that level Because he believed to that level Because he believes that like El Ron Hubbard can believes that like El Ron Hubbard can believes that like El Ron Hubbard can sort of enter his own body no that's not sort of enter his own body no that's not sort of enter his own body no that's not how it works in Scientology okay so you how it works in Scientology okay so you how it works in Scientology okay so you can't have a transfer of can't have a transfer of can't have a transfer of Satan's if you were full OT you could Satan's if you were full OT you could Satan's if you were full OT you could can you uh describe the OT against can you uh describe the OT against can you uh describe the OT against OT levels OT one two three four five to OT levels OT one two three four five to OT levels OT one two three four five to the eight what um what are they what's the eight what um what are they what's the eight what um what are they what's how do you get to level one I'm gonna how do you get to level one I'm gonna how do you get to level one I'm gonna answer this question by first connecting answer this question by first connecting answer this question by first connecting some dots yes okay some dots yes okay some dots yes okay um we spoke early in the interview about um we spoke early in the interview about um we spoke early in the interview about achieving your native god-like yeah achieving your native god-like yeah achieving your native god-like yeah state that in Scientology is called state that in Scientology is called state that in Scientology is called native state native state native state okay native state and full operating

okay native state and full operating okay native state and full operating thetent mean the exact same thing okay thetent mean the exact same thing okay thetent mean the exact same thing okay because that native state you are a because that native state you are a because that native state you are a fully operating thetan you know fully operating thetan you know fully operating thetan you know operating meaning operating in your full operating meaning operating in your full operating meaning operating in your full capacity so OT means operating thing so capacity so OT means operating thing so capacity so OT means operating thing so the upper confidential half a the upper confidential half a the upper confidential half a Scientology Bridge are called the OT Scientology Bridge are called the OT Scientology Bridge are called the OT levels the operating thing levels and levels the operating thing levels and levels the operating thing levels and these and remember they're confidential these and remember they're confidential these and remember they're confidential so most scientologists have not done so most scientologists have not done so most scientologists have not done these levels they don't know what's on these levels they don't know what's on these levels they don't know what's on them them them it is on these levels that you learn it is on these levels that you learn it is on these levels that you learn about the zenu and the body thetan story about the zenu and the body thetan story about the zenu and the body thetan story can you describes you know please we can you describes you know please we can you describes you know please we spoke earlier about how at the lower spoke earlier about how at the lower spoke earlier about how at the lower non-confidential levels of scientology's non-confidential levels of scientology's non-confidential levels of scientology's bridge Hubbard is saying that what's bridge Hubbard is saying that what's bridge Hubbard is saying that what's wrong with you is your reactive mind yes wrong with you is your reactive mind yes wrong with you is your reactive mind yes okay okay okay well in Scientology once you've gotten well in Scientology once you've gotten well in Scientology once you've gotten rid of your reactive mind that is what's rid of your reactive mind that is what's rid of your reactive mind that is what's called the state of clear okay so after called the state of clear okay so after called the state of clear okay so after you finish state of clear the next thing you finish state of clear the next thing you finish state of clear the next thing on the bridge is the OT levels well if on the bridge is the OT levels well if on the bridge is the OT levels well if you've already gotten rid of your active you've already gotten rid of your active you've already gotten rid of your active mind what the heck are you supposed to mind what the heck are you supposed to mind what the heck are you supposed to do now well now L Ron Hubbard says Okay do now well now L Ron Hubbard says Okay do now well now L Ron Hubbard says Okay first what was wrong with you was just first what was wrong with you was just first what was wrong with you was just your reactive mind but now the next your reactive mind but now the next your reactive mind but now the next thing you have to resolve the next thing thing you have to resolve the next thing thing you have to resolve the next thing that's wrong with you is you actually that's wrong with you is you actually that's wrong with you is you actually have tens of thousands of of thetans have tens of thousands of of thetans have tens of thousands of of thetans stuck to your body and they all have stuck to your body and they all have stuck to your body and they all have their own reactive Minds you have to their own reactive Minds you have to their own reactive Minds you have to audit the thetans how do you order the things are these how do you order the things are these like different like different like different shades of your inner mind and you just shades of your inner mind and you just shades of your inner mind and you just have to try to access them somehow you have to try to access them somehow you have to try to access them somehow you use the e-meter just like we spoke about use the e-meter just like we spoke about use the e-meter just like we spoke about except now you've got a divider that

except now you've got a divider that except now you've got a divider that separates the cans so they don't short separates the cans so they don't short separates the cans so they don't short circuit and you hold both cans in one circuit and you hold both cans in one circuit and you hold both cans in one hand and you have the emulator in front hand and you have the emulator in front hand and you have the emulator in front of you so now you're auditing yourself of you so now you're auditing yourself of you so now you're auditing yourself you're telepathically talking to the you're telepathically talking to the you're telepathically talking to the things that are stuck to you things that are stuck to you things that are stuck to you you're thinking the commands instead of you're thinking the commands instead of you're thinking the commands instead of saying them out loud saying them out loud saying them out loud and you sort of do drills where you and you sort of do drills where you and you sort of do drills where you practice looking for emitter reads at practice looking for emitter reads at practice looking for emitter reads at the instant you have a thought the instant you have a thought the instant you have a thought you're telepathically you're telepathically you're telepathically auditing spirits that L Ron Hubbard says auditing spirits that L Ron Hubbard says auditing spirits that L Ron Hubbard says are stuck to your body does this sound are stuck to your body does this sound are stuck to your body does this sound like a recipe for a mental breakdown or like a recipe for a mental breakdown or like a recipe for a mental breakdown or a heck of a mental Journey a heck of a mental Journey a heck of a mental Journey wherever that leads it's a good lead wherever that leads it's a good lead wherever that leads it's a good lead anywhere it'd probably lead to a very anywhere it'd probably lead to a very anywhere it'd probably lead to a very bad place right very often does bad place right very often does bad place right very often does and you combine that with the fact that and you combine that with the fact that and you combine that with the fact that Scientology is against any forms of Scientology is against any forms of Scientology is against any forms of mental help or health outside of mental help or health outside of mental help or health outside of Scientology and you have a recipe for Scientology and you have a recipe for Scientology and you have a recipe for disaster now you might go where did all disaster now you might go where did all disaster now you might go where did all these spirits come from that are stuck these spirits come from that are stuck these spirits come from that are stuck to your body this is where Xenu comes to your body this is where Xenu comes to your body this is where Xenu comes into play so Hubbard says that 75 into play so Hubbard says that 75 into play so Hubbard says that 75 million years ago Xenu was basically a million years ago Xenu was basically a million years ago Xenu was basically a dictator at the galactic Confederation dictator at the galactic Confederation dictator at the galactic Confederation is like 70 something or 80 something is like 70 something or 80 something is like 70 something or 80 something planets sit somewhere in the Milky Way planets sit somewhere in the Milky Way planets sit somewhere in the Milky Way and uh Xenu was like a dictator an and uh Xenu was like a dictator an and uh Xenu was like a dictator an Overlord for either one of these planets Overlord for either one of these planets Overlord for either one of these planets or the whole system or the whole system or the whole system and they had a population problem and and they had a population problem and and they had a population problem and Xenu was like we need to get rid of like Xenu was like we need to get rid of like Xenu was like we need to get rid of like half the people half the people half the people so we called them all in for tax audits so we called them all in for tax audits so we called them all in for tax audits Alvin Hubbard didn't like the IRS so of Alvin Hubbard didn't like the IRS so of Alvin Hubbard didn't like the IRS so of course the story has to do with tax course the story has to do with tax course the story has to do with tax audits okay call them all in for tax

audits okay call them all in for tax audits okay call them all in for tax audits said psych bitches froze them in audits said psych bitches froze them in audits said psych bitches froze them in glycol loaded them up on Space planes glycol loaded them up on Space planes glycol loaded them up on Space planes flew them to Earth remember the story flew them to Earth remember the story flew them to Earth remember the story has to be Earth because the story is has to be Earth because the story is has to be Earth because the story is what's wrong with us what's wrong with us what's wrong with us flew them to Earth dropped them in flew them to Earth dropped them in flew them to Earth dropped them in volcanoes blew them up with hydrogen volcanoes blew them up with hydrogen volcanoes blew them up with hydrogen bombs bombs bombs and then captured them with like Spirit and then captured them with like Spirit and then captured them with like Spirit magnets I'm making up words because okay magnets I'm making up words because okay magnets I'm making up words because okay um and these disembodied spirits of um and these disembodied spirits of um and these disembodied spirits of these people that got blown up have just these people that got blown up have just these people that got blown up have just been blown in the wind here on Earth and been blown in the wind here on Earth and been blown in the wind here on Earth and they attach themselves to things and they attach themselves to things and they attach themselves to things and they can be in the environment and they they can be in the environment and they they can be in the environment and they stick to bodies and everything and so stick to bodies and everything and so stick to bodies and everything and so and they all have reactive Minds so at and they all have reactive Minds so at and they all have reactive Minds so at scientology's upper levels if you get scientology's upper levels if you get scientology's upper levels if you get sick or you have cancer or there's sick or you have cancer or there's sick or you have cancer or there's something wrong with you Scientology something wrong with you Scientology something wrong with you Scientology will say will say will say that's one of your body things you need that's one of your body things you need that's one of your body things you need to get some auditing to fix the body to get some auditing to fix the body to get some auditing to fix the body thing so this story thing so this story thing so this story uh you do it with a kind of bit of a uh you do it with a kind of bit of a uh you do it with a kind of bit of a chuckle but when done seriously so it's chuckle but when done seriously so it's chuckle but when done seriously so it's just told in a serious way just told in a serious way just told in a serious way like to like or written down you read it like to like or written down you read it like to like or written down you read it by most accounts scientologists struggle by most accounts scientologists struggle by most accounts scientologists struggle when they read this for the first time when they read this for the first time when they read this for the first time because this is not consistent with what because this is not consistent with what because this is not consistent with what scientologists are hoping for is on scientologists are hoping for is on scientologists are hoping for is on their T levels they're hoping for some their T levels they're hoping for some their T levels they're hoping for some real life-changing magic the way these real life-changing magic the way these real life-changing magic the way these things are described and sold they're things are described and sold they're things are described and sold they're remember they're hoping that these OT remember they're hoping that these OT remember they're hoping that these OT levels are going to make them give them levels are going to make them give them levels are going to make them give them the ability to go like completely the ability to go like completely the ability to go like completely independent of their body at will yeah independent of their body at will yeah independent of their body at will yeah exteriorize from your body go back into exteriorize from your body go back into exteriorize from your body go back into your body you know like I have some real your body you know like I have some real your body you know like I have some real Spirit Powers the first is kind of a Spirit Powers the first is kind of a Spirit Powers the first is kind of a shock this is but then you still

shock this is but then you still shock this is but then you still probably believe you hope yeah and you probably believe you hope yeah and you probably believe you hope yeah and you might be you might turn into on yourself might be you might turn into on yourself might be you might turn into on yourself self-critical that this is I'm just not self-critical that this is I'm just not self-critical that this is I'm just not strong enough yet strong enough yet strong enough yet yeah because also part of the yeah because also part of the yeah because also part of the Scientology remember it works 100 of the Scientology remember it works 100 of the Scientology remember it works 100 of the time when used 100 correctly and if it time when used 100 correctly and if it time when used 100 correctly and if it doesn't doesn't doesn't it could be because something's not it could be because something's not it could be because something's not being done right but it also could be being done right but it also could be being done right but it also could be because because because you're you're doing bad things that you're you're doing bad things that you're you're doing bad things that you're not telling people about like if you're not telling people about like if you're not telling people about like if you're committing present time over its you're committing present time over its you're committing present time over its crimes sins crimes sins crimes sins scientologists will be like that's part scientologists will be like that's part scientologists will be like that's part of the reason auditing isn't working on of the reason auditing isn't working on of the reason auditing isn't working on you is because you're committing you is because you're committing you is because you're committing criminal behavior that you're not being criminal behavior that you're not being criminal behavior that you're not being honest about so every Scientologist is honest about so every Scientologist is honest about so every Scientologist is sort of incentivized to to make auditing sort of incentivized to to make auditing sort of incentivized to to make auditing work on them okay now Lex this work is a work on them okay now Lex this work is a work on them okay now Lex this work is a little crazy on ot3 you learn about the little crazy on ot3 you learn about the little crazy on ot3 you learn about the OT the body things for the first time OT the body things for the first time OT the body things for the first time when you finish ot3 you attest to having when you finish ot3 you attest to having when you finish ot3 you attest to having achieved this state of having no more achieved this state of having no more achieved this state of having no more body things and then you start o24 body things and then you start o24 body things and then you start o24 and he's like psych you got more you got and he's like psych you got more you got and he's like psych you got more you got more BTS except those other BTS they had more BTS except those other BTS they had more BTS except those other BTS they had drug problems and that's why you drug problems and that's why you drug problems and that's why you couldn't find them the first time so couldn't find them the first time so couldn't find them the first time so we're gonna do a little something a we're gonna do a little something a we're gonna do a little something a little different here do something a little different here do something a little different here do something a little different there got to get rid of little different there got to get rid of little different there got to get rid of these BTS that were addicted to drugs these BTS that were addicted to drugs these BTS that were addicted to drugs okay then you finish ot4 and you're okay then you finish ot4 and you're okay then you finish ot4 and you're thinking man I hope you got the good thinking man I hope you got the good thinking man I hope you got the good stuff soon and then you get to ot5 and stuff soon and then you get to ot5 and stuff soon and then you get to ot5 and he's like psych you got more BTS you he's like psych you got more BTS you he's like psych you got more BTS you couldn't find these BTS because they couldn't find these BTS because they couldn't find these BTS because they were all bunched up together in clusters were all bunched up together in clusters were all bunched up together in clusters and first you have to break up the and first you have to break up the and first you have to break up the Clusters and then you can get rid of the Clusters and then you can get rid of the Clusters and then you can get rid of the BTS and you're like okay gotta do that BTS and you're like okay gotta do that BTS and you're like okay gotta do that and this was all El Ron Hubbard approved

and this was all El Ron Hubbard approved and this was all El Ron Hubbard approved yeah this is from L Ron Hubbard and then yeah this is from L Ron Hubbard and then yeah this is from L Ron Hubbard and then after you finish ot5 you get rid of all after you finish ot5 you get rid of all after you finish ot5 you get rid of all the BT clusters the BT clusters the BT clusters ot6 is just a training course to teach ot6 is just a training course to teach ot6 is just a training course to teach you how to auto ot7 well t7 is now more you how to auto ot7 well t7 is now more you how to auto ot7 well t7 is now more BTS except it's in in the environment BTS except it's in in the environment BTS except it's in in the environment and stuff you're trying to locate BTS and stuff you're trying to locate BTS and stuff you're trying to locate BTS you can find them on your body but it's you can find them on your body but it's you can find them on your body but it's just more BTS just more BTS just more BTS okay and then ot8 is remember we talked okay and then ot8 is remember we talked okay and then ot8 is remember we talked about in all these auditing sessions about in all these auditing sessions about in all these auditing sessions throughout the entire Scientology Bridge throughout the entire Scientology Bridge throughout the entire Scientology Bridge you have people who've run hundreds or you have people who've run hundreds or you have people who've run hundreds or thousands of past life whole track thousands of past life whole track thousands of past life whole track incidents these memories have become incidents these memories have become incidents these memories have become part of their self-identity of who they part of their self-identity of who they part of their self-identity of who they even think they are even think they are even think they are ot8 you go through all these past life ot8 you go through all these past life ot8 you go through all these past life recalls and essentially I'm recalls and essentially I'm recalls and essentially I'm oversimplifying this a little bit he oversimplifying this a little bit he oversimplifying this a little bit he goes psych all those past life memories goes psych all those past life memories goes psych all those past life memories weren't yours weren't yours weren't yours they were your BTS they were your BTS they were your BTS and he goes now that you've discovered and he goes now that you've discovered and he goes now that you've discovered this now you know who you are not this now you know who you are not this now you know who you are not and you are ready to find out who you and you are ready to find out who you and you are ready to find out who you really are really are really are well now you're supposed to find out who well now you're supposed to find out who well now you're supposed to find out who you really are on ot9 and 10. those you really are on ot9 and 10. those you really are on ot9 and 10. those don't exist don't exist don't exist do we know they don't exist yes in fact do we know they don't exist yes in fact do we know they don't exist yes in fact the whole story of how that became known the whole story of how that became known the whole story of how that became known is part of how David miscavige was able is part of how David miscavige was able is part of how David miscavige was able to get rid of Pat broker and take over to get rid of Pat broker and take over to get rid of Pat broker and take over power because it was believed that Pat power because it was believed that Pat power because it was believed that Pat broker had met was in possession of the broker had met was in possession of the broker had met was in possession of the upper unreleased OT levels and when upper unreleased OT levels and when upper unreleased OT levels and when miscavige determined that he was not and miscavige determined that he was not and miscavige determined that he was not and there weren't in fact any levels there weren't in fact any levels there weren't in fact any levels that was bad that was a bad day to be that was bad that was a bad day to be that was bad that was a bad day to be David miscavige because he now knew he David miscavige because he now knew he David miscavige because he now knew he had something on his hands he could not

had something on his hands he could not had something on his hands he could not get himself out of he's like so there's get himself out of he's like so there's get himself out of he's like so there's no Gap no Gap no Gap for Faith to seep in that there is for Faith to seep in that there is for Faith to seep in that there is um a level 9 and 10 11 and 12. oh the um a level 9 and 10 11 and 12. oh the um a level 9 and 10 11 and 12. oh the faith is there scientologists believe faith is there scientologists believe faith is there scientologists believe that these things do exist yeah that these things do exist yeah that these things do exist yeah Ron Hubbard didn't leave anything behind Ron Hubbard didn't leave anything behind Ron Hubbard didn't leave anything behind does David miscavige believe they exist does David miscavige believe they exist does David miscavige believe they exist oh no he knows he knows they don't exist oh no he knows he knows they don't exist oh no he knows he knows they don't exist no meaning when I say exist oh I don't no meaning when I say exist oh I don't no meaning when I say exist oh I don't mean do Advanced um uh levels of mean do Advanced um uh levels of mean do Advanced um uh levels of spiritual awareness exist when I said is spiritual awareness exist when I said is spiritual awareness exist when I said is it means did L Ron Hubbard write down it means did L Ron Hubbard write down it means did L Ron Hubbard write down what anyone is supposed to do that's what anyone is supposed to do that's what anyone is supposed to do that's called ot9 that doesn't exist so you're called ot9 that doesn't exist so you're called ot9 that doesn't exist so you're saying David miscarriage believes that saying David miscarriage believes that saying David miscarriage believes that they can be written down so they exist they can be written down so they exist they can be written down so they exist sort of in the platonic sense sort of in the platonic sense sort of in the platonic sense and El Ron Hubbard is the only one that and El Ron Hubbard is the only one that and El Ron Hubbard is the only one that can write it down so his face is really can write it down so his face is really can write it down so his face is really deep Oh you mean his faith that only El deep Oh you mean his faith that only El deep Oh you mean his faith that only El Ron Hubbard could have ever been the one Ron Hubbard could have ever been the one Ron Hubbard could have ever been the one to do it the full principles beliefs of to do it the full principles beliefs of to do it the full principles beliefs of uh Scientology he is uh Scientology he is uh Scientology he is do you have do you have do you have are you sure he believes that what are you sure he believes that what are you sure he believes that what exactly exactly exactly everything about scientology is that everything about scientology is that everything about scientology is that it's true to the best of my ability to it's true to the best of my ability to it's true to the best of my ability to know that I believe it to be true know that I believe it to be true know that I believe it to be true like I'll give you small even stupid like I'll give you small even stupid like I'll give you small even stupid examples like Mike renders told a story examples like Mike renders told a story examples like Mike renders told a story where at the international base where at the international base where at the international base miscavige actually had like a copper a miscavige actually had like a copper a miscavige actually had like a copper a Contraption built into the ground like Contraption built into the ground like Contraption built into the ground like grounded in the ground to come out where grounded in the ground to come out where grounded in the ground to come out where you could hold it and if something he you could hold it and if something he you could hold it and if something he sort of came up with to uh your BT it sort of came up with to uh your BT it sort of came up with to uh your BT it could ground your BTS could get your BTS

could ground your BTS could get your BTS could ground your BTS could get your BTS that if you're feeling overstimulated or that if you're feeling overstimulated or that if you're feeling overstimulated or something I'm probably slightly something I'm probably slightly something I'm probably slightly bastardizing this story but he came up bastardizing this story but he came up bastardizing this story but he came up with this as a great idea something to with this as a great idea something to with this as a great idea something to help someone destimulate if their BTS help someone destimulate if their BTS help someone destimulate if their BTS were getting a little too overactive were getting a little too overactive were getting a little too overactive used now so that that's a stupid story used now so that that's a stupid story used now so that that's a stupid story that's sort of like well it shows you he that's sort of like well it shows you he that's sort of like well it shows you he believes in the concept of BTS if he's believes in the concept of BTS if he's believes in the concept of BTS if he's creating little rods to get rid of them creating little rods to get rid of them creating little rods to get rid of them to ground them into the Earth well he to ground them into the Earth well he to ground them into the Earth well he could be Conjuring up the stories could be Conjuring up the stories could be Conjuring up the stories because uh he understands the power of because uh he understands the power of because uh he understands the power of myth and narrative and so on to uh to myth and narrative and so on to uh to myth and narrative and so on to uh to inspire sure to but like but also if we inspire sure to but like but also if we inspire sure to but like but also if we look at history both with um just an look at history both with um just an look at history both with um just an interesting thing because I've been interesting thing because I've been interesting thing because I've been reading a lot about Hitler and Stalin reading a lot about Hitler and Stalin reading a lot about Hitler and Stalin and it seems like both of them in and it seems like both of them in and it seems like both of them in different ways different ways different ways believed believed believed in uh the stories they were telling even in uh the stories they were telling even in uh the stories they were telling even when the stories this is the fascinating when the stories this is the fascinating when the stories this is the fascinating especially with Hitler and propaganda especially with Hitler and propaganda especially with Hitler and propaganda where they were literally conjured up at where they were literally conjured up at where they were literally conjured up at first but then you start to believe first but then you start to believe first but then you start to believe you're in propaganda you're in propaganda you're in propaganda uh with Stalin I think what he always uh with Stalin I think what he always uh with Stalin I think what he always believed is the bigger idea of pure believed is the bigger idea of pure believed is the bigger idea of pure communism and anything justifies the communism and anything justifies the communism and anything justifies the journey to communism because it will journey to communism because it will journey to communism because it will ultimately be good for Humanity to ultimately be good for Humanity to ultimately be good for Humanity to achieve the state of pure communism and achieve the state of pure communism and achieve the state of pure communism and then he's a god-like figure that can can then he's a god-like figure that can can then he's a god-like figure that can can bring uh can bring Humanity there but bring uh can bring Humanity there but bring uh can bring Humanity there but like well Hitler it's interesting like well Hitler it's interesting like well Hitler it's interesting because like this constant propaganda because like this constant propaganda because like this constant propaganda that he knows is not true that he knows is not true that he knows is not true a little bit there's got to be doubt but a little bit there's got to be doubt but a little bit there's got to be doubt but then he like that all doubt is removed then he like that all doubt is removed then he like that all doubt is removed very quickly yeah so I guess humans are very quickly yeah so I guess humans are very quickly yeah so I guess humans are just this is how they operate yeah the

just this is how they operate yeah the just this is how they operate yeah the conversation about David miscavige gets conversation about David miscavige gets conversation about David miscavige gets really interesting because I could give really interesting because I could give really interesting because I could give you a if I wanted to make the argument you a if I wanted to make the argument you a if I wanted to make the argument that he didn't believe I could give you that he didn't believe I could give you that he didn't believe I could give you a dozen examples to to make that a dozen examples to to make that a dozen examples to to make that argument I just happen argument I just happen argument I just happen to think that uh he believes in a to think that uh he believes in a to think that uh he believes in a different way whereas your average different way whereas your average different way whereas your average Scientologist believes that Alvernon Scientologist believes that Alvernon Scientologist believes that Alvernon Hubbard was practically infallible that Hubbard was practically infallible that Hubbard was practically infallible that he thought of everything in advance he he thought of everything in advance he he thought of everything in advance he took care of everything before he left took care of everything before he left took care of everything before he left and miscavige still believes in like the and miscavige still believes in like the and miscavige still believes in like the main structure of this thing but he's main structure of this thing but he's main structure of this thing but he's like oh shit it's falling to me to like oh shit it's falling to me to like oh shit it's falling to me to figure out how to actually make this figure out how to actually make this figure out how to actually make this thing happen I I think Miss gavage sees thing happen I I think Miss gavage sees thing happen I I think Miss gavage sees himself as someone who has to a certain himself as someone who has to a certain himself as someone who has to a certain degree had to go back and fix I'll run degree had to go back and fix I'll run degree had to go back and fix I'll run Hubbard's mistakes do you think he sees Hubbard's mistakes do you think he sees Hubbard's mistakes do you think he sees himself as doing good for the world I do himself as doing good for the world I do himself as doing good for the world I do what about for the people of Scientology what about for the people of Scientology what about for the people of Scientology I think in his own way he does I think in his own way he does I think in his own way he does I don't think he wakes up thinking he's I don't think he wakes up thinking he's I don't think he wakes up thinking he's um screwing scientologists um screwing scientologists um screwing scientologists I think he sees everyone else as I think he sees everyone else as I think he sees everyone else as screwing him screwing him screwing him I think he sees uh that he that it is I think he sees uh that he that it is I think he sees uh that he that it is his job to expand Scientology throughout his job to expand Scientology throughout his job to expand Scientology throughout the world and accomplish the aims of the world and accomplish the aims of the world and accomplish the aims of Scientology and he sees that it's not Scientology and he sees that it's not Scientology and he sees that it's not happening and he thinks if everyone else happening and he thinks if everyone else happening and he thinks if everyone else would just stop if everyone else would would just stop if everyone else would would just stop if everyone else would get out of his way and stop creating get out of his way and stop creating get out of his way and stop creating problems for him it would happen like uh problems for him it would happen like uh problems for him it would happen like uh I I do think he seems to sees himself as I I do think he seems to sees himself as I I do think he seems to sees himself as someone who is doing good I think that's someone who is doing good I think that's someone who is doing good I think that's fair to say fair to say fair to say I think the evidence shows that what I think the evidence shows that what I think the evidence shows that what about the effects of clearly power and about the effects of clearly power and about the effects of clearly power and influence that he's had and money yeah

influence that he's had and money yeah influence that he's had and money yeah without question that has served as a without question that has served as a without question that has served as a corrupting force it has without question corrupting force it has without question corrupting force it has without question have you seen sort of evidence of that have you seen sort of evidence of that have you seen sort of evidence of that that he's changed over time after the that he's changed over time after the that he's changed over time after the 1993 IRS exemption that Scientology won 1993 IRS exemption that Scientology won 1993 IRS exemption that Scientology won back back back um and this information comes from Mike um and this information comes from Mike um and this information comes from Mike rinder rinder rinder uh that's when David miscavige as soon uh that's when David miscavige as soon uh that's when David miscavige as soon as the checks on his power were removed as the checks on his power were removed as the checks on his power were removed miscavig's Behavior changed markedly miscavig's Behavior changed markedly miscavig's Behavior changed markedly can you tell the story of Shelley can you tell the story of Shelley can you tell the story of Shelley miscavige and the Mystery surrounding miscavige and the Mystery surrounding miscavige and the Mystery surrounding her I saw that there is quite a bit of her I saw that there is quite a bit of her I saw that there is quite a bit of mystery yeah mystery yeah mystery yeah so Shelley miscavich for many years held so Shelley miscavich for many years held so Shelley miscavich for many years held the job of her post in the sea the job of her post in the sea the job of her post in the sea organization was David miscavige's organization was David miscavige's organization was David miscavige's assistant that was her post it's assistant that was her post it's assistant that was her post it's important to truly understand important to truly understand important to truly understand that and what that means because that and what that means because that and what that means because um the fact that she was miscavige's um the fact that she was miscavige's um the fact that she was miscavige's wife wife wife is meaningless is meaningless is meaningless and this is something that's hard to for and this is something that's hard to for and this is something that's hard to for regular people in the regular world to regular people in the regular world to regular people in the regular world to truly grasp how meaningless it is in truly grasp how meaningless it is in truly grasp how meaningless it is in Scientology for sea org members who are Scientology for sea org members who are Scientology for sea org members who are spouses it means nothing spouses it means nothing spouses it means nothing Your Role matters more in within seaworg Your Role matters more in within seaworg Your Role matters more in within seaworg your role is the only thing that matters your role is the only thing that matters your role is the only thing that matters so let's say let's say if Shelley was so let's say let's say if Shelley was so let's say let's say if Shelley was married to Dave but she worked in a married to Dave but she worked in a married to Dave but she worked in a different organization different organization different organization she would never be seen with him she would never be seen with him she would never be seen with him ever publicly ever wouldn't travel with ever publicly ever wouldn't travel with ever publicly ever wouldn't travel with him wouldn't go to events with him him wouldn't go to events with him him wouldn't go to events with him nothing nothing nothing sometime around 2006 2007 and I'm very sometime around 2006 2007 and I'm very sometime around 2006 2007 and I'm very oversimplifying this okay Shelley oversimplifying this okay Shelley oversimplifying this okay Shelley basically pissed off Dave to the point basically pissed off Dave to the point basically pissed off Dave to the point where he's like okay I'm done with you

where he's like okay I'm done with you where he's like okay I'm done with you I'm gonna take you off of your post okay I'm gonna take you off of your post okay I'm gonna take you off of your post okay at that point she was reassigned to at that point she was reassigned to at that point she was reassigned to another confidential Scientology base up another confidential Scientology base up another confidential Scientology base up in Twin Peaks California in Twin Peaks California in Twin Peaks California um why am I the reason I'm providing um why am I the reason I'm providing um why am I the reason I'm providing this type of detail is because we hear this type of detail is because we hear this type of detail is because we hear that Shelley's missing yeah okay well that Shelley's missing yeah okay well that Shelley's missing yeah okay well you realize the same people who report you realize the same people who report you realize the same people who report the Shelley's Mission are also the same the Shelley's Mission are also the same the Shelley's Mission are also the same people who will tell you exactly where people who will tell you exactly where people who will tell you exactly where she is she is she is okay she works at this secretive CST okay she works at this secretive CST okay she works at this secretive CST Church of spiritual technology base out Church of spiritual technology base out Church of spiritual technology base out in Twin Peaks California I have personal in Twin Peaks California I have personal in Twin Peaks California I have personal confirmation that she was seen and confirmation that she was seen and confirmation that she was seen and spoken with by someone who knew her well spoken with by someone who knew her well spoken with by someone who knew her well in I'll say 2019. in I'll say 2019. in I'll say 2019. Shelley miscavige is missing in the Shelley miscavige is missing in the Shelley miscavige is missing in the sense that sense that sense that she's hasn't been seen with David she's hasn't been seen with David she's hasn't been seen with David miscavige since about 2006. but because miscavige since about 2006. but because miscavige since about 2006. but because she's no longer his assistant she's no longer his assistant she's no longer his assistant you would never see her with him as you would never see her with him as you would never see her with him as opposed to like the mystery of of a opposed to like the mystery of of a opposed to like the mystery of of a person that might be murdered this is person that might be murdered this is person that might be murdered this is more of a reallocation within the more of a reallocation within the more of a reallocation within the organization certain people who cover organization certain people who cover organization certain people who cover Scientology Scientology Scientology who have published stories who have published stories who have published stories where Shelley's miscavige's family where Shelley's miscavige's family where Shelley's miscavige's family member told member told member told a story to another family member who a story to another family member who a story to another family member who told the story to a friend who told the told the story to a friend who told the told the story to a friend who told the story to a former Scientologist who told story to a former Scientologist who told story to a former Scientologist who told the story to a journalist who published the story to a journalist who published the story to a journalist who published the story the story the story has created the impression that some of has created the impression that some of has created the impression that some of Shelley miscavige's family members are Shelley miscavige's family members are Shelley miscavige's family members are actually talking to the Press when in actually talking to the Press when in actually talking to the Press when in fact that has never occurred

fact that has never occurred fact that has never occurred and so the very people who are and so the very people who are and so the very people who are publishing about Shelley miscavich publishing about Shelley miscavich publishing about Shelley miscavich missing have contributed to the fact missing have contributed to the fact missing have contributed to the fact that Shelley miscavige does no longer that Shelley miscavige does no longer that Shelley miscavige does no longer speak to those family members speak to those family members speak to those family members because she thinks they're talking to because she thinks they're talking to because she thinks they're talking to the Press when they never have the Press when they never have the Press when they never have it's pretty messed up it's sad that she it's pretty messed up it's sad that she it's pretty messed up it's sad that she because those those family members what because those those family members what because those those family members what would be a way for her to would be a way for her to would be a way for her to to recover to to flourish as a human to recover to to flourish as a human to recover to to flourish as a human being to escape yeah being to escape yeah being to escape yeah so so so I believe the information that I have I believe the information that I have I believe the information that I have that I verified I'm I'm putting out I'm that I verified I'm I'm putting out I'm that I verified I'm I'm putting out I'm the one representing it's true without the one representing it's true without the one representing it's true without revealing my sources sure that Shelley revealing my sources sure that Shelley revealing my sources sure that Shelley was still actively in touch regularly was still actively in touch regularly was still actively in touch regularly with family members outside of the sea with family members outside of the sea with family members outside of the sea organization since about until about organization since about until about organization since about until about 2014. 2014. 2014. so I mean regularly okay so there's no so I mean regularly okay so there's no so I mean regularly okay so there's no question about her safety or uh during question about her safety or uh during question about her safety or uh during that period and then someone else who that period and then someone else who that period and then someone else who knew Shelley very well uh did see her knew Shelley very well uh did see her knew Shelley very well uh did see her and actually have a conversation with and actually have a conversation with and actually have a conversation with her in a public place in uh 2019 or her in a public place in uh 2019 or her in a public place in uh 2019 or 2020. now somebody could still come 2020. now somebody could still come 2020. now somebody could still come along and be like how do we know she's along and be like how do we know she's along and be like how do we know she's okay it's been three years yeah okay you okay it's been three years yeah okay you okay it's been three years yeah okay you could say that about anybody you know could say that about anybody you know could say that about anybody you know there there's a the nature of working in there there's a the nature of working in there there's a the nature of working in the highest levels of Scientology the highest levels of Scientology the highest levels of Scientology management at these super secretive management at these super secretive management at these super secretive bases uh it's a very weird and unique bases uh it's a very weird and unique bases uh it's a very weird and unique situation yeah it has isolation baked in situation yeah it has isolation baked in situation yeah it has isolation baked in house secrecy enforced why why is secret house secrecy enforced why why is secret house secrecy enforced why why is secret why is everybody uh holding on to their why is everybody uh holding on to their why is everybody uh holding on to their stories so hard so so intensely people stories so hard so so intensely people stories so hard so so intensely people that are within the organization like that are within the organization like that are within the organization like it's hard to leak it's hard to leak it's hard to leak information oh they wouldn't want to information oh they wouldn't want to information oh they wouldn't want to leak they're true believers they see

leak they're true believers they see leak they're true believers they see they see like there's a there's sort of they see like there's a there's sort of they see like there's a there's sort of a conspiracy theory that runs right a conspiracy theory that runs right a conspiracy theory that runs right through all of Scientology through all of Scientology through all of Scientology which is that Scientology which is that Scientology which is that Scientology um represents like an existential threat um represents like an existential threat um represents like an existential threat to the powers that really control that to the powers that really control that to the powers that really control that really control this planet do they have really control this planet do they have really control this planet do they have a face to the powers that really control a face to the powers that really control a face to the powers that really control do they have names to it like who's do they have names to it like who's do they have names to it like who's controlling it's Z news homies well I'm controlling it's Z news homies well I'm controlling it's Z news homies well I'm sure that's not what they say Xeno sure that's not what they say Xeno sure that's not what they say Xeno embodied it's actually sort of a embodied it's actually sort of a embodied it's actually sort of a multi-faceted multi-faceted multi-faceted um conspiracy and that on the one hand um conspiracy and that on the one hand um conspiracy and that on the one hand I'll Ron Hubbard points his fingers at I'll Ron Hubbard points his fingers at I'll Ron Hubbard points his fingers at like the international bankers like the international bankers like the international bankers okay which has shades of anti-Semitism okay which has shades of anti-Semitism okay which has shades of anti-Semitism too and then the IRS system is going to too and then the IRS system is going to too and then the IRS system is going to be quickly baked in I don't know the IRS be quickly baked in I don't know the IRS be quickly baked in I don't know the IRS now the the IRS is so low on the totem now the the IRS is so low on the totem now the the IRS is so low on the totem pole oh as far as the I mean the pole oh as far as the I mean the pole oh as far as the I mean the international Bankers he would say runs international Bankers he would say runs international Bankers he would say runs everything got it but they but use that everything got it but they but use that everything got it but they but use that that these Bankers um also use big that these Bankers um also use big that these Bankers um also use big Pharma and big psych to control the Pharma and big psych to control the Pharma and big psych to control the population and Scientology is famously population and Scientology is famously population and Scientology is famously against against against um Pharma and psych and so this is sort um Pharma and psych and so this is sort um Pharma and psych and so this is sort of how L Ron Hubbard characterizes like of how L Ron Hubbard characterizes like of how L Ron Hubbard characterizes like this big war between Scientology that's this big war between Scientology that's this big war between Scientology that's trying to set everyone free and big trying to set everyone free and big trying to set everyone free and big Pharma and big psych that's trying to Pharma and big psych that's trying to Pharma and big psych that's trying to enslave everyone on the planet yeah enslave everyone on the planet yeah enslave everyone on the planet yeah controlling their mind controlling their controlling their mind controlling their controlling their mind controlling their body through chemicals and and who body through chemicals and and who body through chemicals and and who controls the Press controls the Press controls the Press big Pharma and big psych so there's a big Pharma and big psych so there's a big Pharma and big psych so there's a lot of correlation to other kinds of lot of correlation to other kinds of lot of correlation to other kinds of conspiracy theories yeah conspiracy theories yeah conspiracy theories yeah um oh that's fascinating but you asked um oh that's fascinating but you asked um oh that's fascinating but you asked the question the question the question um where uh why would all these people

um where uh why would all these people um where uh why would all these people hold on to their stories they don't they hold on to their stories they don't they hold on to their stories they don't they would never want to leak like by even would never want to leak like by even would never want to leak like by even anyone who would want a leak would not anyone who would want a leak would not anyone who would want a leak would not even want to be a Scientologist anymore even want to be a Scientologist anymore even want to be a Scientologist anymore like if you truly believe if you truly like if you truly believe if you truly like if you truly believe if you truly believe in Scientology and you got your believe in Scientology and you got your believe in Scientology and you got your shoulder to the wheel and you're a cork shoulder to the wheel and you're a cork shoulder to the wheel and you're a cork member you think Scientology is member you think Scientology is member you think Scientology is literally the only thing that can save literally the only thing that can save literally the only thing that can save every being on this planet from a fate every being on this planet from a fate every being on this planet from a fate of Eternal Amnesia and slavery yeah of Eternal Amnesia and slavery yeah of Eternal Amnesia and slavery yeah right and so it's like I mean you've right and so it's like I mean you've right and so it's like I mean you've seen The Matrix right so you've got seen The Matrix right so you've got seen The Matrix right so you've got everyone once you're unplugged from The everyone once you're unplugged from The everyone once you're unplugged from The Matrix and you realize yeah you can get Matrix and you realize yeah you can get Matrix and you realize yeah you can get plugged back in and live your nice life plugged back in and live your nice life plugged back in and live your nice life but you're a slave that's how but you're a slave that's how but you're a slave that's how scientologists see this planet they scientologists see this planet they scientologists see this planet they actually they refer to Earth as a Prison actually they refer to Earth as a Prison actually they refer to Earth as a Prison Planet Planet Planet just an individual level how is it just an individual level how is it just an individual level how is it possible to reach a person like that I possible to reach a person like that I possible to reach a person like that I is there something you could say to that is there something you could say to that is there something you could say to that like what's the Journey of reaching a like what's the Journey of reaching a like what's the Journey of reaching a person like that person like that person like that I personally because because when I when I personally because because when I when I personally because because when I when I was in those shoes I say there's I was in those shoes I say there's I was in those shoes I say there's nothing anybody could have said to me to nothing anybody could have said to me to nothing anybody could have said to me to get me to change how I felt and thought get me to change how I felt and thought get me to change how I felt and thought about scientology about scientology about scientology it's almost foolproof that the more it's almost foolproof that the more it's almost foolproof that the more evidence you try to present that there's evidence you try to present that there's evidence you try to present that there's something something something wrong with what Scientology is doing the wrong with what Scientology is doing the wrong with what Scientology is doing the more you're just working for the Sykes more you're just working for the Sykes more you're just working for the Sykes you know it's very very difficult I mean you know it's very very difficult I mean you know it's very very difficult I mean most people who leave Scientology leave most people who leave Scientology leave most people who leave Scientology leave because they have ex had some personal because they have ex had some personal because they have ex had some personal experience that was just such a grave experience that was just such a grave experience that was just such a grave Injustice Injustice Injustice that it just pushed them Beyond

that it just pushed them Beyond that it just pushed them Beyond uh the point of what they're willing to uh the point of what they're willing to uh the point of what they're willing to experience very I've never I'm not sure experience very I've never I'm not sure experience very I've never I'm not sure I've really ever heard a story of I've really ever heard a story of I've really ever heard a story of someone going yeah I just woke up you someone going yeah I just woke up you someone going yeah I just woke up you know I just gradually realized it was know I just gradually realized it was know I just gradually realized it was all Bs and drifted away all Bs and drifted away all Bs and drifted away you know it's usually like no I really you know it's usually like no I really you know it's usually like no I really believed and they treated me so horribly believed and they treated me so horribly believed and they treated me so horribly I almost had no choice I almost had no choice I almost had no choice but to leave and then the stories get but to leave and then the stories get but to leave and then the stories get pretty crazy pretty crazy pretty crazy meaning you don't care what's true meaning you don't care what's true meaning you don't care what's true anymore you just have to leave yeah with anymore you just have to leave yeah with anymore you just have to leave yeah with this the uh the unpleasant feeling the this the uh the unpleasant feeling the this the uh the unpleasant feeling the suffering yeah and this sort of goes suffering yeah and this sort of goes suffering yeah and this sort of goes back to back to back to um the conversation we're having about um the conversation we're having about um the conversation we're having about like well does miscavige really believe like well does miscavige really believe like well does miscavige really believe and I said I could make an argument for and I said I could make an argument for and I said I could make an argument for the fact that he doesn't right because I the fact that he doesn't right because I the fact that he doesn't right because I go it wouldn't be that hard to change go it wouldn't be that hard to change go it wouldn't be that hard to change the way Scientology treats people just a the way Scientology treats people just a the way Scientology treats people just a little bit and you'd probably stop little bit and you'd probably stop little bit and you'd probably stop losing anyone because scientologists losing anyone because scientologists losing anyone because scientologists already believed to such a strong degree already believed to such a strong degree already believed to such a strong degree you have to be pretty freaking horrible you have to be pretty freaking horrible you have to be pretty freaking horrible to people to make them leave and that's to people to make them leave and that's to people to make them leave and that's where you go well does miscavich even where you go well does miscavich even where you go well does miscavich even want Scientology to expand because if he want Scientology to expand because if he want Scientology to expand because if he was really being clever about it it was really being clever about it it was really being clever about it it seems like he could at least stop the seems like he could at least stop the seems like he could at least stop the bleeding and yet he doesn't so that's bleeding and yet he doesn't so that's bleeding and yet he doesn't so that's where you make the argument well if he where you make the argument well if he where you make the argument well if he doesn't then he must not want to doesn't then he must not want to doesn't then he must not want to so his mind is corrupted to the point so his mind is corrupted to the point so his mind is corrupted to the point where he's not able to actually be a where he's not able to actually be a where he's not able to actually be a good businessman essentially it seems good businessman essentially it seems good businessman essentially it seems that way the numbers of scientologists have been the numbers of scientologists have been going down and down and down since the going down and down and down since the going down and down and down since the early 90s is there a good I mean it's early 90s is there a good I mean it's early 90s is there a good I mean it's very difficult to get to this number but very difficult to get to this number but very difficult to get to this number but is there a good estimate of what the is there a good estimate of what the is there a good estimate of what the current number of scientologists are

current number of scientologists are current number of scientologists are practicing scientologists is oh yeah I practicing scientologists is oh yeah I practicing scientologists is oh yeah I did a video about this it's actually did a video about this it's actually did a video about this it's actually quite easy to get to the number it's not quite easy to get to the number it's not quite easy to get to the number it's not more than 35 000 in the entire world and more than 35 000 in the entire world and more than 35 000 in the entire world and that's being very generous and that's being very generous and that's being very generous and charitable that's I was intentionally charitable that's I was intentionally charitable that's I was intentionally generous I broke it all down in a generous I broke it all down in a generous I broke it all down in a spreadsheet and everything you know what spreadsheet and everything you know what spreadsheet and everything you know what can you give like some insights of how can you give like some insights of how can you give like some insights of how you get that information sure there's you get that information sure there's you get that information sure there's about 175 to 200 Scientology about 175 to 200 Scientology about 175 to 200 Scientology organizations in the world organizations in the world organizations in the world anybody who's ever worked at these anybody who's ever worked at these anybody who's ever worked at these organizations know there's not more than organizations know there's not more than organizations know there's not more than 35 to 50 staff members per org there's 35 to 50 staff members per org there's 35 to 50 staff members per org there's not more than one to two hundred public not more than one to two hundred public not more than one to two hundred public scientologists per org I broke down the scientologists per org I broke down the scientologists per org I broke down the number of CR members who'd be working at number of CR members who'd be working at number of CR members who'd be working at every Continental Management unit middle every Continental Management unit middle every Continental Management unit middle Management International Management I Management International Management I Management International Management I broke it on the mission network and I broke it on the mission network and I broke it on the mission network and I was generous I mean my numbers were like was generous I mean my numbers were like was generous I mean my numbers were like if L Ron Hubbard came back and they were if L Ron Hubbard came back and they were if L Ron Hubbard came back and they were doing an event L Ron Hubbard was coming doing an event L Ron Hubbard was coming doing an event L Ron Hubbard was coming back and announcing ot9 and 10 how many back and announcing ot9 and 10 how many back and announcing ot9 and 10 how many scientologists could we scrape together scientologists could we scrape together scientologists could we scrape together in every city to come to this event it in every city to come to this event it in every city to come to this event it wasn't more than 35 000. now contrast wasn't more than 35 000. now contrast wasn't more than 35 000. now contrast that to what Scientology says that to what Scientology says that to what Scientology says Millions 10 million people Millions 10 million people Millions 10 million people is this less people than there used to is this less people than there used to is this less people than there used to be yeah at its peak it was about a be yeah at its peak it was about a be yeah at its peak it was about a hundred thousand active members but hundred thousand active members but hundred thousand active members but never the millions ever no never the millions ever no never the millions ever no has uh David miscavige used the violence has uh David miscavige used the violence has uh David miscavige used the violence as there in your understanding of it in as there in your understanding of it in as there in your understanding of it in your estimation sort of uh harassment your estimation sort of uh harassment your estimation sort of uh harassment assault and actual assault and actual assault and actual I don't know how to define assault but I don't know how to define assault but I don't know how to define assault but violence oh yeah dozens of former CR

violence oh yeah dozens of former CR violence oh yeah dozens of former CR members from the international base have members from the international base have members from the international base have told stories of being assaulted by told stories of being assaulted by told stories of being assaulted by miscavige in fact Mike rinder is miscavige in fact Mike rinder is miscavige in fact Mike rinder is probably the one person who's been probably the one person who's been probably the one person who's been assaulted by miscavige more than anyone assaulted by miscavige more than anyone assaulted by miscavige more than anyone else he's personally probably haven't else he's personally probably haven't else he's personally probably haven't assaulted dozens of times assaulted dozens of times assaulted dozens of times who's my Kinder so man here one of the who's my Kinder so man here one of the who's my Kinder so man here one of the highest ranking Executives in highest ranking Executives in highest ranking Executives in Scientology he was author there you go a Scientology he was author there you go a Scientology he was author there you go a billion years oh a billion years it's a billion years oh a billion years it's a billion years oh a billion years it's a it really is a fantastic book because it really is a fantastic book because it really is a fantastic book because Lex the guy the guy was born and raised Lex the guy the guy was born and raised Lex the guy the guy was born and raised in Scientology and worked personally in Scientology and worked personally in Scientology and worked personally with El Ron Hubbard and worked with El Ron Hubbard and worked with El Ron Hubbard and worked personally with David miscavige for personally with David miscavige for personally with David miscavige for decades like it doesn't get much more decades like it doesn't get much more decades like it doesn't get much more Insider than that a candid and deeply Insider than that a candid and deeply Insider than that a candid and deeply felt Memoir of a life lost to false felt Memoir of a life lost to false felt Memoir of a life lost to false belief and courageously regained belief and courageously regained belief and courageously regained Lawrence Wright Lawrence Wright Lawrence Wright a billion years my escape from a life in a billion years my escape from a life in a billion years my escape from a life in the highest ranks of Scientology my the highest ranks of Scientology my the highest ranks of Scientology my grinder it's a fantastic book grinder it's a fantastic book grinder it's a fantastic book um he also narrates his own audiobook um he also narrates his own audiobook um he also narrates his own audiobook too I know you like the audiobooks too I know you like the audiobooks too I know you like the audiobooks that's how I listen to it yeah so Mike that's how I listen to it yeah so Mike that's how I listen to it yeah so Mike famously you know I just said a moment famously you know I just said a moment famously you know I just said a moment ago like someone who's treated so ago like someone who's treated so ago like someone who's treated so horribly even though he still believed horribly even though he still believed horribly even though he still believed in Scientology that he had no choice but in Scientology that he had no choice but in Scientology that he had no choice but to leave to leave to leave and he tells he tells the story in that and he tells he tells the story in that and he tells he tells the story in that book and he still believes in book and he still believes in book and he still believes in Scientology for years after he escaped Scientology for years after he escaped Scientology for years after he escaped for years because there's this thing for years because there's this thing for years because there's this thing called The Independent Scientology called The Independent Scientology called The Independent Scientology movement or the free zone or whatever movement or the free zone or whatever movement or the free zone or whatever there are people who do Scientology there are people who do Scientology there are people who do Scientology outside of the Church of Scientology outside of the Church of Scientology outside of the Church of Scientology there's just not many of them but Mike there's just not many of them but Mike there's just not many of them but Mike was one of those people who was actually was one of those people who was actually was one of those people who was actually doing Scientology even after he left now doing Scientology even after he left now doing Scientology even after he left now he no longer believes in that anymore he no longer believes in that anymore he no longer believes in that anymore and he doesn't do it but but even though and he doesn't do it but but even though and he doesn't do it but but even though he still believed even though everything he still believed even though everything he still believed even though everything he knew he knew he knew was what he was leaving behind he still

was what he was leaving behind he still was what he was leaving behind he still had to leave it behind and by the way I had to leave it behind and by the way I had to leave it behind and by the way I just throw open to random page and he just throw open to random page and he just throw open to random page and he says when I signed on for sea organ says when I signed on for sea organ says when I signed on for sea organ Adelaide in 1973 the recruiter promised Adelaide in 1973 the recruiter promised Adelaide in 1973 the recruiter promised I would train as a Scientology executive I would train as a Scientology executive I would train as a Scientology executive under the direct tutelage of Hubbard on under the direct tutelage of Hubbard on under the direct tutelage of Hubbard on the Apollo the Apollo the Apollo so this is another thing I should so this is another thing I should so this is another thing I should probably ask you about there's oh we can probably ask you about there's oh we can probably ask you about there's oh we can go for days I was also told that after I go for days I was also told that after I go for days I was also told that after I learned all I needed to learn at the learned all I needed to learn at the learned all I needed to learn at the foot of the master I would return to foot of the master I would return to foot of the master I would return to Australia to help expand Scientology in Australia to help expand Scientology in Australia to help expand Scientology in my home country my home country my home country so what was the thing that really broke so what was the thing that really broke so what was the thing that really broke him the final thing is when him the final thing is when him the final thing is when uh he got to a point where he was no uh he got to a point where he was no uh he got to a point where he was no longer being forced to lie to protect longer being forced to lie to protect longer being forced to lie to protect elrond Hubbard elrond Hubbard elrond Hubbard he was now being forced to lie to he was now being forced to lie to he was now being forced to lie to protect David miscavige protect David miscavige protect David miscavige and specifically it was about the and specifically it was about the and specifically it was about the allegations of having been assaulted by allegations of having been assaulted by allegations of having been assaulted by miscavige Mike rinder was at some um miscavige Mike rinder was at some um miscavige Mike rinder was at some um event it might have been a grand opening event it might have been a grand opening event it might have been a grand opening for a building a Scientology building in for a building a Scientology building in for a building a Scientology building in London and I believe it was John Sweeney London and I believe it was John Sweeney London and I believe it was John Sweeney at that time a BBC journalist who you at that time a BBC journalist who you at that time a BBC journalist who you know stuck a camera in a microphone in know stuck a camera in a microphone in know stuck a camera in a microphone in Mike's face is it true David miscavige Mike's face is it true David miscavige Mike's face is it true David miscavige assaulted is it true and Mike denied it assaulted is it true and Mike denied it assaulted is it true and Mike denied it on camera and then turned around and to on camera and then turned around and to on camera and then turned around and to himself is like himself is like himself is like this is what my life has been reduced to this is what my life has been reduced to this is what my life has been reduced to lying to protect David miscavage this lying to protect David miscavage this lying to protect David miscavage this used to be about elrond Hubbard this used to be about elrond Hubbard this used to be about elrond Hubbard this used to be about scientology yeah now used to be about scientology yeah now used to be about scientology yeah now it's about protecting this douchebag it's about protecting this douchebag it's about protecting this douchebag and miscavige had just issued orders

and miscavige had just issued orders and miscavige had just issued orders that was going to send Mike off to that was going to send Mike off to that was going to send Mike off to Australia Muscat like miscavige is Australia Muscat like miscavige is Australia Muscat like miscavige is sadistic that is that is without sadistic that is that is without sadistic that is that is without question sadistic meaning he enjoys question sadistic meaning he enjoys question sadistic meaning he enjoys inflating pain upon others so he very inflating pain upon others so he very inflating pain upon others so he very specifically was going to tell Mike tell specifically was going to tell Mike tell specifically was going to tell Mike tell render or tell that cocksucker we're render or tell that cocksucker we're render or tell that cocksucker we're shipping him off to Australia he's never shipping him off to Australia he's never shipping him off to Australia he's never going to see his wife and his kids again going to see his wife and his kids again going to see his wife and his kids again essentially essentially essentially and that's when Mike was like they were and that's when Mike was like they were and that's when Mike was like they were the only reason I hadn't already left the only reason I hadn't already left the only reason I hadn't already left so if I follow the orders so if I follow the orders so if I follow the orders I'm going to lose them I'm going to lose them I'm going to lose them if I leave Scientology I'm going to lose if I leave Scientology I'm going to lose if I leave Scientology I'm going to lose them them them at least if I leave Scientology at least if I leave Scientology at least if I leave Scientology I'll be free of something it's fucking sad and he still believed it's fucking sad and he still believed Scientology to some degree after he left Scientology to some degree after he left Scientology to some degree after he left is what you're saying yeah has he spoken is what you're saying yeah has he spoken is what you're saying yeah has he spoken about what it took to let go of about what it took to let go of about what it took to let go of believing in Scientology yeah he does a believing in Scientology yeah he does a believing in Scientology yeah he does a very good job talking about all of this very good job talking about all of this very good job talking about all of this in the book it took him it took him like four or it took him it took him like four or five years to get that book done like five years to get that book done like five years to get that book done like it's a it's a polished version It's a it's a it's a polished version It's a it's a it's a polished version It's a polished version of a story and and I polished version of a story and and I polished version of a story and and I think Mike's about getting ready to think Mike's about getting ready to think Mike's about getting ready to start his own YouTube channel so that'll start his own YouTube channel so that'll start his own YouTube channel so that'll be a lot of fun actually Mike comes on be a lot of fun actually Mike comes on be a lot of fun actually Mike comes on my Channel all the time yeah you guys my Channel all the time yeah you guys my Channel all the time yeah you guys you guys do a thing together right yeah you guys do a thing together right yeah you guys do a thing together right yeah we do Three Amigos with me and Mike we do Three Amigos with me and Mike we do Three Amigos with me and Mike rinder and Mark Hadley that's why I gave rinder and Mark Hadley that's why I gave rinder and Mark Hadley that's why I gave you Mark's books I thought maybe you you Mark's books I thought maybe you you Mark's books I thought maybe you would uh know him from our little Three would uh know him from our little Three would uh know him from our little Three Amigos are Mondays with Mike and Mark Amigos are Mondays with Mike and Mark Amigos are Mondays with Mike and Mark videos Mark Hedley blown for good behind videos Mark Hedley blown for good behind videos Mark Hedley blown for good behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology so he the Iron Curtain of Scientology so he the Iron Curtain of Scientology so he escaped from the international base on a

escaped from the international base on a escaped from the international base on a motorcycle it's a wild story I won't motorcycle it's a wild story I won't motorcycle it's a wild story I won't even try to do it justice but who's a even try to do it justice but who's a even try to do it justice but who's a better writer of the two of them better writer of the two of them better writer of the two of them you're not going to get me there like you're not going to get me there like you're not going to get me there like I'm trying to be an investigative I'm trying to be an investigative I'm trying to be an investigative journalist for once Mike and Mark are journalist for once Mike and Mark are journalist for once Mike and Mark are both on the board of the aftermath both on the board of the aftermath both on the board of the aftermath foundation with me yeah so who's better foundation with me yeah so who's better foundation with me yeah so who's better looking no looking no looking no it's one of my justifications for just it's one of my justifications for just it's one of my justifications for just putting up content every day is every putting up content every day is every putting up content every day is every video is just an excuse to in some video is just an excuse to in some video is just an excuse to in some little white promote the aftermath little white promote the aftermath little white promote the aftermath foundation and and I do that again one foundation and and I do that again one foundation and and I do that again one to genuinely help people escape and two to genuinely help people escape and two to genuinely help people escape and two because I know it drives David miscavige because I know it drives David miscavige because I know it drives David miscavige crazy if you look in your own heart is crazy if you look in your own heart is crazy if you look in your own heart is there anger there there anger there there anger there I don't think it's anger I don't hate I I don't think it's anger I don't hate I I don't think it's anger I don't hate I don't hate Scientology I don't hate don't hate Scientology I don't hate don't hate Scientology I don't hate David miscavige David miscavige David miscavige um I don't even hate my experience in um I don't even hate my experience in um I don't even hate my experience in Scientology be able to Scientology be able to Scientology be able to accept the good yeah from your accept the good yeah from your accept the good yeah from your experience yeah absolutely but it's also experience yeah absolutely but it's also experience yeah absolutely but it's also the only path that I traveled right so I the only path that I traveled right so I the only path that I traveled right so I tend no I'm okay a little less so these tend no I'm okay a little less so these tend no I'm okay a little less so these days but days but days but um earlier in life I tended to attribute um earlier in life I tended to attribute um earlier in life I tended to attribute all my pot all positive characteristics all my pot all positive characteristics all my pot all positive characteristics in me to Scientology because in my in me to Scientology because in my in me to Scientology because in my simplistic way of thinking I was like simplistic way of thinking I was like simplistic way of thinking I was like what else could it possibly be what else could it possibly be what else could it possibly be attributed to right that's a very black attributed to right that's a very black attributed to right that's a very black and white way of saying it's a beautiful and white way of saying it's a beautiful and white way of saying it's a beautiful way to see uh to see life no matter what way to see uh to see life no matter what way to see uh to see life no matter what happens to you you attribute like you happens to you you attribute like you happens to you you attribute like you focus on the positive yeah and you feel focus on the positive yeah and you feel focus on the positive yeah and you feel like sometimes people have traumatic like sometimes people have traumatic like sometimes people have traumatic experiences with parents and so on yeah experiences with parents and so on yeah experiences with parents and so on yeah and if you focus on the positive it's a and if you focus on the positive it's a and if you focus on the positive it's a good way to let go right of the trauma good way to let go right of the trauma good way to let go right of the trauma associated with it true but like another associated with it true but like another associated with it true but like another example would be like I didn't go to example would be like I didn't go to example would be like I didn't go to school like I I stopped going to school school like I I stopped going to school school like I I stopped going to school in the seventh grade but people go but

in the seventh grade but people go but in the seventh grade but people go but you sound so smart and what am I you sound so smart and what am I you sound so smart and what am I supposed to do I'm supposed to say well supposed to do I'm supposed to say well supposed to do I'm supposed to say well it's because of Scientology like how do it's because of Scientology like how do it's because of Scientology like how do I answer that question like if it's the I answer that question like if it's the I answer that question like if it's the only path I traveled how do I answer only path I traveled how do I answer only path I traveled how do I answer that question I don't necessarily want that question I don't necessarily want that question I don't necessarily want to give Scientology credit but what the to give Scientology credit but what the to give Scientology credit but what the hell am I supposed to point to sure you hell am I supposed to point to sure you hell am I supposed to point to sure you know I mean you said know I mean you said know I mean you said there's you kind of enjoy I mean part of there's you kind of enjoy I mean part of there's you kind of enjoy I mean part of it is you're joking and trolling that it is you're joking and trolling that it is you're joking and trolling that you enjoy knowing that your YouTube you enjoy knowing that your YouTube you enjoy knowing that your YouTube channel drives Dave miscavige crazy channel drives Dave miscavige crazy channel drives Dave miscavige crazy I mean what I mean what I mean what that means you still I mean there is a that means you still I mean there is a that means you still I mean there is a joy you have there is a joy there's I'm joy you have there is a joy there's I'm joy you have there is a joy there's I'm not going to deny that I don't know what not going to deny that I don't know what not going to deny that I don't know what to make of that because there's a I to make of that because there's a I to make of that because there's a I suppose there's an intimacy suppose there's an intimacy suppose there's an intimacy when you're part of a tribe of that kind when you're part of a tribe of that kind when you're part of a tribe of that kind it's almost like let me try to let me it's almost like let me try to let me it's almost like let me try to let me try to frame it try to frame it try to frame it I wasn't trying to get kicked out of I wasn't trying to get kicked out of I wasn't trying to get kicked out of Scientology I was trying to not get Scientology I was trying to not get Scientology I was trying to not get kicked out of Scientology kicked out of Scientology kicked out of Scientology I you know so what happened first first I you know so what happened first first I you know so what happened first first my mom got kicked out for basically my mom got kicked out for basically my mom got kicked out for basically talking some smack about David miscavige talking some smack about David miscavige talking some smack about David miscavige and then they go to me and they go okay and then they go to me and they go okay and then they go to me and they go okay you've got a disconnect from your mom or you've got a disconnect from your mom or you've got a disconnect from your mom or you're gonna get kicked out and I lied you're gonna get kicked out and I lied you're gonna get kicked out and I lied about that I was like okay I'll about that I was like okay I'll about that I was like okay I'll disconnect but I never did for a couple disconnect but I never did for a couple disconnect but I never did for a couple years I lied my ass off about it years I lied my ass off about it years I lied my ass off about it eventually they were like this guy's eventually they were like this guy's eventually they were like this guy's gonna keep lying to us right and they're gonna keep lying to us right and they're gonna keep lying to us right and they're like yeah like all right you're out like yeah like all right you're out like yeah like all right you're out something go to my wife so you got to something go to my wife so you got to something go to my wife so you got to divorce your husband or you're gonna get divorce your husband or you're gonna get divorce your husband or you're gonna get kicked out and she goes no that's a hell of a statement from her that's a hell of a statement from her it's gonna get harder for me here so I'm it's gonna get harder for me here so I'm it's gonna get harder for me here so I'm not quite sure how to not quite sure how to not quite sure how to okay so I'll try to get I'll try to do

okay so I'll try to get I'll try to do okay so I'll try to get I'll try to do it you don't seem like a man who's it you don't seem like a man who's it you don't seem like a man who's afraid of hard things okay afraid of hard things okay afraid of hard things okay so she's like so she's like so she's like no no no so then they go to her parents and they say you've got to disconnect and they say you've got to disconnect from your daughter from your daughter from your daughter and your three granddaughters and your three granddaughters and your three granddaughters but you're gonna get kicked out but they have three other kids who are but they have three other kids who are scientologists who have spouses who are scientologists who have spouses who are scientologists who have spouses who are scientologists who have grandkids scientologists who have grandkids scientologists who have grandkids so I feel like so I feel like so I feel like up until that point everybody was sort up until that point everybody was sort up until that point everybody was sort of making a decision for themselves and of making a decision for themselves and of making a decision for themselves and what would be best for themselves what would be best for themselves what would be best for themselves until they get to her parents until they get to her parents until they get to her parents and then they're like which grandkids and then they're like which grandkids and then they're like which grandkids are we going to lose are we going to lose are we going to lose okay at the part where they were trying okay at the part where they were trying okay at the part where they were trying to get me to disconnect from my mom to get me to disconnect from my mom to get me to disconnect from my mom there were hours that I spent talking to there were hours that I spent talking to there were hours that I spent talking to them going you know guys them going you know guys them going you know guys there's another way there's another way there's another way it doesn't have to go this way it doesn't have to go this way it doesn't have to go this way there's another way that ends well for there's another way that ends well for there's another way that ends well for all of us all of us all of us and that wasn't even considered and that wasn't even considered and that wasn't even considered and I go like and I go like and I go like they created this monster they created this monster they created this monster and that's a fact and that's a fact and that's a fact and that's why I take joy in it and that's why I take joy in it and that's why I take joy in it when people when people ask me is when people when people ask me is when people when people ask me is Scientology a destructive cult I don't Scientology a destructive cult I don't Scientology a destructive cult I don't even have to get into all the academic even have to get into all the academic even have to get into all the academic discussions of what's a religion and discussions of what's a religion and discussions of what's a religion and what's a cult and what's the difference what's a cult and what's the difference what's a cult and what's the difference I go as long as they destroy families I go as long as they destroy families I go as long as they destroy families like that they're occult like that they're occult like that they're occult so they cut people off deliberately one

so they cut people off deliberately one so they cut people off deliberately one by one and it doesn't have to be that way right and it doesn't have to be that way right and why is it that way and why is it that way and why is it that way I mean it started with L Ron Hubbard I mean it started with L Ron Hubbard I mean it started with L Ron Hubbard laying out a policy framework a policy laying out a policy framework a policy laying out a policy framework a policy structure that structure that structure that if interpreted and applied in the worst if interpreted and applied in the worst if interpreted and applied in the worst possible way with the worst possible possible way with the worst possible possible way with the worst possible judgment can be abused in that way I judgment can be abused in that way I judgment can be abused in that way I would make the argument would make the argument would make the argument that if an anti-broker had taken over that if an anti-broker had taken over that if an anti-broker had taken over that Scientology policy does have enough that Scientology policy does have enough that Scientology policy does have enough little little little um caveats baked into it that even the um caveats baked into it that even the um caveats baked into it that even the policies about disconnection could be policies about disconnection could be policies about disconnection could be interpreted and implemented in a interpreted and implemented in a interpreted and implemented in a non-destructive way non-destructive way non-destructive way there is room for judgment and there is room for judgment and there is room for judgment and discretion discretion discretion and miscavige has just created the worst and miscavige has just created the worst and miscavige has just created the worst possible version of Scientology and possible version of Scientology and possible version of Scientology and that's that's where you sort of get that that's that's where you sort of get that that's that's where you sort of get that argument of does he even want argument of does he even want argument of does he even want scientologies to succeed because he scientologies to succeed because he scientologies to succeed because he seems to be hell-bent seems to be hell-bent seems to be hell-bent on making sure that he doesn't yeah and and I don't want to see him yeah and and I don't want to see him make it succeed but it does bring that make it succeed but it does bring that make it succeed but it does bring that question up of like what are his question up of like what are his question up of like what are his motivations motivations motivations can he not see that he's destroying the can he not see that he's destroying the can he not see that he's destroying the thing he's supposed to be expanding thing he's supposed to be expanding thing he's supposed to be expanding that's also you know there's ways to that's also you know there's ways to that's also you know there's ways to measure cost measure cost measure cost and that would probably be the most and that would probably be the most and that would probably be the most costly aspect of Scientology is the costly aspect of Scientology is the costly aspect of Scientology is the suffering associated with the separating suffering associated with the separating suffering associated with the separating of families yeah I mean that's actually

of families yeah I mean that's actually of families yeah I mean that's actually just puts make it's a very concrete what just puts make it's a very concrete what just puts make it's a very concrete what we value in human life we value in human life we value in human life is the connection to our loved ones like is the connection to our loved ones like is the connection to our loved ones like everything else doesn't matter like everything else doesn't matter like everything else doesn't matter like getting 50 bucks a week getting 50 bucks a week getting 50 bucks a week uh uh uh like that like uh getting money stolen like that like uh getting money stolen like that like uh getting money stolen from you getting the truth stolen from from you getting the truth stolen from from you getting the truth stolen from you none of that compares you none of that compares you none of that compares uh you can even frame that as the good uh you can even frame that as the good uh you can even frame that as the good there could be a lot of positives there could be a lot of positives there could be a lot of positives whatever in the tribe but separating whatever in the tribe but separating whatever in the tribe but separating families separating loved ones that's families separating loved ones that's families separating loved ones that's the destructive thing the destructive thing the destructive thing so no hate though no I genuinely don't so no hate though no I genuinely don't so no hate though no I genuinely don't hate them hate them hate them do you forgive them 100 do you forgive them 100 do you forgive them 100 there's no one I look at in Scientology there's no one I look at in Scientology there's no one I look at in Scientology that I go how dare you if I was in their that I go how dare you if I was in their that I go how dare you if I was in their shoes shoes shoes having to you know operate under David having to you know operate under David having to you know operate under David miscavigest orders I would have done the miscavigest orders I would have done the miscavigest orders I would have done the same thing and I would have loved it same thing and I would have loved it same thing and I would have loved it truthfully truthfully truthfully I don't blame any of them I mean I take I don't blame any of them I mean I take I don't blame any of them I mean I take the opposite approach if they knew what the opposite approach if they knew what the opposite approach if they knew what I knew they'd be doing what I'm doing I knew they'd be doing what I'm doing I knew they'd be doing what I'm doing yeah if they knew what I knew and yeah if they knew what I knew and yeah if they knew what I knew and believed it they'd be doing what I'm believed it they'd be doing what I'm believed it they'd be doing what I'm doing they're not dumb it's not it's not doing they're not dumb it's not it's not doing they're not dumb it's not it's not it's not dumb people in Scientology it's not dumb people in Scientology it's not dumb people in Scientology they're ambitious they're dreamers they they're ambitious they're dreamers they they're ambitious they're dreamers they got hope they're driven all that kind of got hope they're driven all that kind of got hope they're driven all that kind of stuff yeah stuff yeah stuff yeah and it's one of the reasons I like and it's one of the reasons I like and it's one of the reasons I like putting up content on my channel so they putting up content on my channel so they putting up content on my channel so they can see hey like if you're a can see hey like if you're a can see hey like if you're a Scientologist you look at that and you Scientologist you look at that and you Scientologist you look at that and you go hey he seems like he's doing well go hey he seems like he's doing well go hey he seems like he's doing well he's kind of he's happy he's a positive he's kind of he's happy he's a positive he's kind of he's happy he's a positive guy he's a good communicator he knows guy he's a good communicator he knows guy he's a good communicator he knows what he's talking about he's not lying what he's talking about he's not lying what he's talking about he's not lying he's not exaggerating I don't exaggerate

he's not exaggerating I don't exaggerate he's not exaggerating I don't exaggerate anything on my channel I don't make up anything on my channel I don't make up anything on my channel I don't make up anything anything anything and this is actually comes from an and this is actually comes from an and this is actually comes from an experience I had from 1998 to 2000 I was experience I had from 1998 to 2000 I was experience I had from 1998 to 2000 I was living in La I started at a two-year living in La I started at a two-year living in La I started at a two-year period in my life where I actually had period in my life where I actually had period in my life where I actually had almost no contact with Scientology almost no contact with Scientology almost no contact with Scientology and during that time I found my way onto and during that time I found my way onto and during that time I found my way onto the internet and there was a website it the internet and there was a website it the internet and there was a website it might have been esmb ex-scientology might have been esmb ex-scientology might have been esmb ex-scientology message but whatever it was it was at message but whatever it was it was at message but whatever it was it was at that time the main source of critical that time the main source of critical that time the main source of critical information about scientology on the information about scientology on the information about scientology on the internet and I looked at it I remember I internet and I looked at it I remember I internet and I looked at it I remember I was still a True Believer was still a True Believer was still a True Believer and I looked at this and it was so and I looked at this and it was so and I looked at this and it was so uh offensive uh offensive uh offensive um insulting uh hyperbolic exaggerated I um insulting uh hyperbolic exaggerated I um insulting uh hyperbolic exaggerated I was like oh just a bunch of bullshit was like oh just a bunch of bullshit was like oh just a bunch of bullshit I was in Scientology for 16 more years I was in Scientology for 16 more years I was in Scientology for 16 more years if if if what I had seen on the internet about what I had seen on the internet about what I had seen on the internet about critical of Scientology if what I had critical of Scientology if what I had critical of Scientology if what I had seen when I had seen it was something seen when I had seen it was something seen when I had seen it was something that actually resonated with me that actually resonated with me that actually resonated with me that I was like oh that I was like oh that I was like oh that I believed was true that's that I believed was true that's that I believed was true that's incredible I would have gotten out of incredible I would have gotten out of incredible I would have gotten out of Scientology 16 years earlier Scientology 16 years earlier Scientology 16 years earlier so I was like so I was like so I was like how can I help create an experience on how can I help create an experience on how can I help create an experience on the internet that if a Scientologist the internet that if a Scientologist the internet that if a Scientologist stumbles upon it it will resonate with stumbles upon it it will resonate with stumbles upon it it will resonate with them instead of repelling them and that them instead of repelling them and that them instead of repelling them and that is exactly what I have set out to do and is exactly what I have set out to do and is exactly what I have set out to do and what I believe I've accomplished there's what I believe I've accomplished there's what I believe I've accomplished there's the content the message but also just the content the message but also just the content the message but also just showing that you can be happy outside of showing that you can be happy outside of showing that you can be happy outside of Scientology exactly you can have a Scientology exactly you can have a Scientology exactly you can have a fulfilling life you can be a good man fulfilling life you can be a good man fulfilling life you can be a good man yeah all that

yeah all that yeah all that what benefit do you think Tom Cruise what benefit do you think Tom Cruise what benefit do you think Tom Cruise gets from Scientology so why is he still gets from Scientology so why is he still gets from Scientology so why is he still in Scientology he genuinely loves it and in Scientology he genuinely loves it and in Scientology he genuinely loves it and also miscavige does there's one also miscavige does there's one also miscavige does there's one celebrity who does have the most unique celebrity who does have the most unique celebrity who does have the most unique experience in Scientology and that is experience in Scientology and that is experience in Scientology and that is Tom Tom Tom Scientology hires all of Tom's staff Scientology hires all of Tom's staff Scientology hires all of Tom's staff there are no all of Tom's staff are there are no all of Tom's staff are there are no all of Tom's staff are subject to interrogations by Scientology subject to interrogations by Scientology subject to interrogations by Scientology not only in the hiring process but not only in the hiring process but not only in the hiring process but during the employment like David during the employment like David during the employment like David miscavich and Scientology runs Tom miscavich and Scientology runs Tom miscavich and Scientology runs Tom Cruise's life and his production company Cruise's life and his production company Cruise's life and his production company and his household staff do you imagine and his household staff do you imagine and his household staff do you imagine there's some personal connection there there's some personal connection there there's some personal connection there where there's just they like each other where there's just they like each other where there's just they like each other a lot best friends a lot best friends a lot best friends I mean it's them against the world yeah I mean it's them against the world yeah I mean it's them against the world yeah is how they see it I think it's pretty is how they see it I think it's pretty is how they see it I think it's pretty easy to see how that works but between easy to see how that works but between easy to see how that works but between the two of them I think this idea of the two of them I think this idea of the two of them I think this idea of them against the world us against the them against the world us against the them against the world us against the world is a really power powerful world is a really power powerful world is a really power powerful intimate like I kind of see like intimate like I kind of see like intimate like I kind of see like friendships and relationships that way friendships and relationships that way friendships and relationships that way that I'm not in a dark sense but it's that I'm not in a dark sense but it's that I'm not in a dark sense but it's like like like the world is full of Cruelty and the world is full of Cruelty and the world is full of Cruelty and absurdity and unfairness and so on it's absurdity and unfairness and so on it's absurdity and unfairness and so on it's nice to huddle together like the nice to huddle together like the nice to huddle together like the Penguins in March of the book against Penguins in March of the book against Penguins in March of the book against the cold 100 they're just like and so the cold 100 they're just like and so the cold 100 they're just like and so especially with the ideology of uh of of especially with the ideology of uh of of especially with the ideology of uh of of Scientology it uh this idea that you can Scientology it uh this idea that you can Scientology it uh this idea that you can you can be anything you can essentially you can be anything you can essentially you can be anything you can essentially I mean you you can manifest it I mean you you can manifest it I mean you you can manifest it essentially through like believing it essentially through like believing it essentially through like believing it um I mean you don't really put into um I mean you don't really put into um I mean you don't really put into those words but believing that you're

those words but believing that you're those words but believing that you're you're a God you're a God you're a God this is a really like inspiring positive this is a really like inspiring positive this is a really like inspiring positive thing to think if they could figure out thing to think if they could figure out thing to think if they could figure out how to do all that without destroying how to do all that without destroying how to do all that without destroying families and bankrupting its members families and bankrupting its members families and bankrupting its members they might actually have a future that's they might actually have a future that's they might actually have a future that's why like it's funny because sometimes I why like it's funny because sometimes I why like it's funny because sometimes I feel like it's like like I'm rooting for feel like it's like like I'm rooting for feel like it's like like I'm rooting for them to like succeed and do it right and them to like succeed and do it right and them to like succeed and do it right and I'm not but it's an interesting academic I'm not but it's an interesting academic I'm not but it's an interesting academic discussion to have of like discussion to have of like discussion to have of like we can all see how much people will we can all see how much people will we can all see how much people will sacrifice in the names of belief and sacrifice in the names of belief and sacrifice in the names of belief and religion yeah we can see how much religion yeah we can see how much religion yeah we can see how much scientologists sacrifice based on what scientologists sacrifice based on what scientologists sacrifice based on what they already believe if you would just start treating people if you would just start treating people less horribly you know what I'm saying less horribly you know what I'm saying less horribly you know what I'm saying it might actually have a future but it might actually have a future but it might actually have a future but that's what I wanted to it seems like that's what I wanted to it seems like that's what I wanted to it seems like this dark lesson of human nature that this dark lesson of human nature that this dark lesson of human nature that they like there's something about you they like there's something about you they like there's something about you know to use the word Cults that you just know to use the word Cults that you just know to use the word Cults that you just stop seeing reality for what it is stop seeing reality for what it is stop seeing reality for what it is there's a lot of things that could make there's a lot of things that could make there's a lot of things that could make this a better organization that's this a better organization that's this a better organization that's actually helping people flourish and actually helping people flourish and actually helping people flourish and um um um and and be a little bit more like and and be a little bit more like and and be a little bit more like uh loose about membership right not uh loose about membership right not uh loose about membership right not dividing families not causing suffering dividing families not causing suffering dividing families not causing suffering not causing Financial harm but actually not causing Financial harm but actually not causing Financial harm but actually inspiring people and helping people but inspiring people and helping people but inspiring people and helping people but then maybe and it fundamentally changes then maybe and it fundamentally changes then maybe and it fundamentally changes of what the organization is and maybe of what the organization is and maybe of what the organization is and maybe that means somebody like David miscavige that means somebody like David miscavige that means somebody like David miscavige loses power too which might be very loses power too which might be very loses power too which might be very difficult or people that are close to difficult or people that are close to difficult or people that are close to him lose power and people hold on to him lose power and people hold on to him lose power and people hold on to power so yeah whatever the human forces power so yeah whatever the human forces power so yeah whatever the human forces here it seems to

here it seems to here it seems to become worse and worse over time become worse and worse over time become worse and worse over time what about uh oh let me ask a conspiracy what about uh oh let me ask a conspiracy what about uh oh let me ask a conspiracy question is there a chance that Tom question is there a chance that Tom question is there a chance that Tom Cruise is being blackmailed that there's Cruise is being blackmailed that there's Cruise is being blackmailed that there's information from auditing no no so that information from auditing no no so that information from auditing no no so that kind of stuff is not that's very good kind of stuff is not that's very good kind of stuff is not that's very good I've actually come out and said I've actually come out and said I've actually come out and said definitively uh I do not know of a definitively uh I do not know of a definitively uh I do not know of a single person who stays in Scientology single person who stays in Scientology single person who stays in Scientology because they're afraid of being because they're afraid of being because they're afraid of being blackmailed it's just not a thing it's blackmailed it's just not a thing it's blackmailed it's just not a thing it's just not a thing just not a thing just not a thing does Scientology have enough information does Scientology have enough information does Scientology have enough information to Black still blackmail someone if they to Black still blackmail someone if they to Black still blackmail someone if they wanted to well sure I mean and it wanted to well sure I mean and it wanted to well sure I mean and it doesn't have to be true it could just be doesn't have to be true it could just be doesn't have to be true it could just be lies who cares who knows Scientology can lies who cares who knows Scientology can lies who cares who knows Scientology can say whatever the hell they want so say whatever the hell they want so say whatever the hell they want so that's the thing it doesn't even have to that's the thing it doesn't even have to that's the thing it doesn't even have to be true and actually that would be the be true and actually that would be the be true and actually that would be the argument against blackmailing like in argument against blackmailing like in argument against blackmailing like in order for Scientology to Blackmail you order for Scientology to Blackmail you order for Scientology to Blackmail you with that information they'd actually with that information they'd actually with that information they'd actually have to represent that yes he really did have to represent that yes he really did have to represent that yes he really did tell us this and it's like well wasn't tell us this and it's like well wasn't tell us this and it's like well wasn't why are you spilling secrets of members why are you spilling secrets of members why are you spilling secrets of members right like it sets a bad precedent what right like it sets a bad precedent what right like it sets a bad precedent what are some of the sins according to are some of the sins according to are some of the sins according to Scientology Scientology Scientology most of the sins from a Scientology most of the sins from a Scientology most of the sins from a Scientology perspective are just doing or saying perspective are just doing or saying perspective are just doing or saying anything that being brings um disrepute anything that being brings um disrepute anything that being brings um disrepute to Scientology itself right to Scientology itself right to Scientology itself right um um um remember they don't it's not like remember they don't it's not like remember they don't it's not like Christianity where there's rules if you Christianity where there's rules if you Christianity where there's rules if you break this rule you're not getting into break this rule you're not getting into break this rule you're not getting into heaven yeah because scientologists and heaven yeah because scientologists and heaven yeah because scientologists and think about things oh well there's the think about things oh well there's the think about things oh well there's the drug you can't do drugs right you can't drug you can't do drugs right you can't drug you can't do drugs right you can't do uh drugs do uh drugs do uh drugs uh and you can't take any psychotropic uh and you can't take any psychotropic uh and you can't take any psychotropic medications and no medications almost at medications and no medications almost at medications and no medications almost at all you're allowed to take medications all you're allowed to take medications all you're allowed to take medications it's just um there's no rules expressly it's just um there's no rules expressly it's just um there's no rules expressly uh prohibiting it it's just most uh prohibiting it it's just most uh prohibiting it it's just most scientologists tend not to you can take scientologists tend not to you can take scientologists tend not to you can take Advil but many scientologists won't

Advil but many scientologists won't Advil but many scientologists won't okay okay okay um you just can't take anything um you just can't take anything um you just can't take anything prescribed by a psychiatrist a prescribed by a psychiatrist a prescribed by a psychiatrist a psychologist or any drugs that are psychologist or any drugs that are psychologist or any drugs that are psychotropic drugs I mean ssris are psychotropic drugs I mean ssris are psychotropic drugs I mean ssris are considered probably the closest thing to considered probably the closest thing to considered probably the closest thing to Pure Evil in the world of Scientology Pure Evil in the world of Scientology Pure Evil in the world of Scientology what about weird question what about sex what about weird question what about sex what about weird question what about sex is there boundaries on what's there used is there boundaries on what's there used is there boundaries on what's there used to not be it's become very puritanical to not be it's become very puritanical to not be it's become very puritanical in in the last many decades for a reason in in the last many decades for a reason in in the last many decades for a reason I can't actually explain like miscavige I can't actually explain like miscavige I can't actually explain like miscavige does seem to be infatuated with does seem to be infatuated with does seem to be infatuated with controlling sex controlling sex controlling sex like that that is one thing about like that that is one thing about like that that is one thing about miscavige version of Scientology that's miscavige version of Scientology that's miscavige version of Scientology that's gotten very strange I mean L Ron Hubbard gotten very strange I mean L Ron Hubbard gotten very strange I mean L Ron Hubbard even specifically wrote a policy that even specifically wrote a policy that even specifically wrote a policy that says we are no longer going to says we are no longer going to says we are no longer going to regulate in any way the bedroom regulate in any way the bedroom regulate in any way the bedroom activities of people he literally said activities of people he literally said activities of people he literally said from this point on no one is allowed to from this point on no one is allowed to from this point on no one is allowed to be subject to any justice actions of any be subject to any justice actions of any be subject to any justice actions of any kind whatsoever for anything they do in kind whatsoever for anything they do in kind whatsoever for anything they do in their sexual lives uh but that was still their sexual lives uh but that was still their sexual lives uh but that was still did not give permission for gay did not give permission for gay did not give permission for gay relationships that was still referring relationships that was still referring relationships that was still referring to straight stuff and uh monogamous only to straight stuff and uh monogamous only to straight stuff and uh monogamous only can you do promise that can you open can you do promise that can you open can you do promise that can you open marriages and open relationships marriages and open relationships marriages and open relationships according to that over on Hubbard policy according to that over on Hubbard policy according to that over on Hubbard policy you can yeah but you know I think he you can yeah but you know I think he you can yeah but you know I think he wrote that policy before he created the wrote that policy before he created the wrote that policy before he created the C organization and then what happened is C organization and then what happened is C organization and then what happened is this is actually how this came into this is actually how this came into this is actually how this came into effect uh he created this organization effect uh he created this organization effect uh he created this organization you had a lot of people on a ship and you had a lot of people on a ship and you had a lot of people on a ship and everybody was just banging each other everybody was just banging each other everybody was just banging each other and it created just a nightmare of and it created just a nightmare of and it created just a nightmare of personal relationship that it was making personal relationship that it was making personal relationship that it was making production impossible not because production impossible not because production impossible not because everybody was spending so much time everybody was spending so much time everybody was spending so much time banging but because everybody was so

banging but because everybody was so banging but because everybody was so upset about who was begging him yeah I upset about who was begging him yeah I upset about who was begging him yeah I mean sex and sex and that kind of mean sex and sex and that kind of mean sex and sex and that kind of dynamic is really um dynamic is really um dynamic is really um I mean human humans do what humans do I mean human humans do what humans do I mean human humans do what humans do and then there's drama and all that it's and then there's drama and all that it's and then there's drama and all that it's it's understandable because everybody's it's understandable because everybody's it's understandable because everybody's so intimate it's the closed tribe uh it so intimate it's the closed tribe uh it so intimate it's the closed tribe uh it makes sense to limit sex otherwise makes sense to limit sex otherwise makes sense to limit sex otherwise everyone's but otherwise it becomes a everyone's but otherwise it becomes a everyone's but otherwise it becomes a sex cult yeah which a lot of them end up sex cult yeah which a lot of them end up sex cult yeah which a lot of them end up becoming well on that topic would you becoming well on that topic would you becoming well on that topic would you classify Scientology as a cult 100 but classify Scientology as a cult 100 but classify Scientology as a cult 100 but not because I'm like fully conversant not because I'm like fully conversant not because I'm like fully conversant with the academic uh differentiations with the academic uh differentiations with the academic uh differentiations between what's a religion and what's a between what's a religion and what's a between what's a religion and what's a cult I mean Scientology would say well cult I mean Scientology would say well cult I mean Scientology would say well all small new religions are Cults and I all small new religions are Cults and I all small new religions are Cults and I don't know that's probably true some don't know that's probably true some don't know that's probably true some people would say all religions are people would say all religions are people would say all religions are called so maybe like depends on how you called so maybe like depends on how you called so maybe like depends on how you Define religion and it depends on how Define religion and it depends on how Define religion and it depends on how you Define cult but I just fall back on you Define cult but I just fall back on you Define cult but I just fall back on my thing of like if you're destroying my thing of like if you're destroying my thing of like if you're destroying families yeah and bankrupting your families yeah and bankrupting your families yeah and bankrupting your members you're a cult members you're a cult members you're a cult that's us versus them and the them could that's us versus them and the them could that's us versus them and the them could be your family it could be your loved be your family it could be your loved be your family it could be your loved ones that uh ones that uh ones that uh that's deeply destructive and one of the that's deeply destructive and one of the that's deeply destructive and one of the things you would probably throw into a things you would probably throw into a things you would probably throw into a definition of a call to something that's definition of a call to something that's definition of a call to something that's actually destructive because like I do a actually destructive because like I do a actually destructive because like I do a lot of stuff that they're caught like lot of stuff that they're caught like lot of stuff that they're caught like like Jiu Jitsu like there's a lot of like Jiu Jitsu like there's a lot of like Jiu Jitsu like there's a lot of really close-knit tribes really close-knit tribes really close-knit tribes but there's no negative toxicity to it but there's no negative toxicity to it but there's no negative toxicity to it there's no uh divide there's no there's no uh divide there's no there's no uh divide there's no divisions or if there is it's more divisions or if there is it's more divisions or if there is it's more boy try being a fan of a certain soccer boy try being a fan of a certain soccer boy try being a fan of a certain soccer team and then becoming a fan of another

team and then becoming a fan of another team and then becoming a fan of another soccer that's hardcore and like soccer that's hardcore and like soccer that's hardcore and like but I'll tell you I trained Jiu Jitsu as but I'll tell you I trained Jiu Jitsu as but I'll tell you I trained Jiu Jitsu as well and I have found that community of well and I have found that community of well and I have found that community of people to be one of the most loving people to be one of the most loving people to be one of the most loving and uh helpful and uh helpful and uh helpful uh group of people ever shout out to uh group of people ever shout out to uh group of people ever shout out to John Keller Gracie Baja Clearwater John Keller Gracie Baja Clearwater John Keller Gracie Baja Clearwater um no but seriously like it's one of um no but seriously like it's one of um no but seriously like it's one of it's one of the reasons I continue to do it's one of the reasons I continue to do it's one of the reasons I continue to do it despite it despite it despite my back my hip my shoulder it's like my back my hip my shoulder it's like my back my hip my shoulder it's like it's just such a cool group of guys goes it's just such a cool group of guys goes it's just such a cool group of guys goes on uh you used to not I think it was on uh you used to not I think it was on uh you used to not I think it was much more divisive uh in the beginning much more divisive uh in the beginning much more divisive uh in the beginning uh from this Brazilian Roots one of the uh from this Brazilian Roots one of the uh from this Brazilian Roots one of the things that's really hard is the team things that's really hard is the team things that's really hard is the team oriented like oriented like oriented like if you're this team you're you're right if you're this team you're you're right if you're this team you're you're right or die with this team and there's no or die with this team and there's no or die with this team and there's no there's a crunches they go to another there's a crunches they go to another there's a crunches they go to another team yeah and I think that aspect that team yeah and I think that aspect that team yeah and I think that aspect that was actually a turn off for me in the was actually a turn off for me in the was actually a turn off for me in the beginning that the toxicity of that beginning that the toxicity of that beginning that the toxicity of that because I understand that a little bit because I understand that a little bit because I understand that a little bit for the elites for the elites for the elites for the highest of the highest that for the highest of the highest that for the highest of the highest that there's I like the Brotherhood and the there's I like the Brotherhood and the there's I like the Brotherhood and the Loyalty of the people like the Olympic Loyalty of the people like the Olympic Loyalty of the people like the Olympic gold medalists the like the best in the gold medalists the like the best in the gold medalists the like the best in the world yes but for like recreational fun world yes but for like recreational fun world yes but for like recreational fun like it's like this is all ultimately like it's like this is all ultimately like it's like this is all ultimately about the camaraderie of all human about the camaraderie of all human about the camaraderie of all human beings together not some whatever label beings together not some whatever label beings together not some whatever label you put on your on yourself I don't you put on your on yourself I don't you put on your on yourself I don't think we actually talked about the think we actually talked about the think we actually talked about the organization itself we talked about uh organization itself we talked about uh organization itself we talked about uh tax exempt status which is really tax exempt status which is really tax exempt status which is really important we talked about some of the important we talked about some of the important we talked about some of the control like through the propaganda control like through the propaganda control like through the propaganda control control control of what's out there it's actually of what's out there it's actually of what's out there it's actually interesting that you said that like

interesting that you said that like interesting that you said that like the Scientology has pretty much lost the the Scientology has pretty much lost the the Scientology has pretty much lost the battle with the internet oh yeah battle with the internet oh yeah battle with the internet oh yeah um which is kind of inspiring that it's um which is kind of inspiring that it's um which is kind of inspiring that it's hard to defeat the internet hard to defeat the internet hard to defeat the internet but then there's like Bots there but then there's like Bots there but then there's like Bots there I think if you're sophisticated I'm not I think if you're sophisticated I'm not I think if you're sophisticated I'm not sure that's true but if you're not it's sure that's true but if you're not it's sure that's true but if you're not it's kind of remarkable they haven't been kind of remarkable they haven't been kind of remarkable they haven't been able to capitalize on these bot armies able to capitalize on these bot armies able to capitalize on these bot armies because there's one thing that they have because there's one thing that they have because there's one thing that they have it's a lot of tax-free money that they it's a lot of tax-free money that they it's a lot of tax-free money that they got nothing else better to do it yeah got nothing else better to do it yeah got nothing else better to do it yeah right so you can invest you know they right so you can invest you know they right so you can invest you know they just they should give you a call like just they should give you a call like just they should give you a call like they just don't have the right people they just don't have the right people they just don't have the right people apparently apparently apparently uh but that said how do they wield uh uh but that said how do they wield uh uh but that said how do they wield uh influence with government agencies with influence with government agencies with influence with government agencies with you've talked about the the local police you've talked about the the local police you've talked about the the local police yeah uh enforcement uh also federal yeah uh enforcement uh also federal yeah uh enforcement uh also federal agencies anything that is the one way agencies anything that is the one way agencies anything that is the one way they effectively put their money to use they effectively put their money to use they effectively put their money to use is lobbyists and attorneys is lobbyists and attorneys is lobbyists and attorneys um you know judges very rarely have they um you know judges very rarely have they um you know judges very rarely have they ever been able just to get a politician ever been able just to get a politician ever been able just to get a politician on their side it's the behind the scenes on their side it's the behind the scenes on their side it's the behind the scenes people you know Greta Van susteren's a people you know Greta Van susteren's a people you know Greta Van susteren's a very high level long-term Scientologist very high level long-term Scientologist very high level long-term Scientologist and her husband I always get it wrong and her husband I always get it wrong and her husband I always get it wrong it's either Jim Cole or John Cole I it's either Jim Cole or John Cole I it's either Jim Cole or John Cole I always get it wrong uh he's a very always get it wrong uh he's a very always get it wrong uh he's a very powerful attorney who has a lot uh powerful attorney who has a lot uh powerful attorney who has a lot uh wields a lot of influence behind the wields a lot of influence behind the wields a lot of influence behind the scenes scenes scenes and that's just one example like the and that's just one example like the and that's just one example like the reason why that's an interesting example reason why that's an interesting example reason why that's an interesting example is because he's actually a Scientologist is because he's actually a Scientologist is because he's actually a Scientologist and he travels in those circles and he travels in those circles and he travels in those circles Scientology though it's money goes to Scientology though it's money goes to Scientology though it's money goes to good use by hiring non-scientologists good use by hiring non-scientologists good use by hiring non-scientologists retired judges attorneys lobbyists it retired judges attorneys lobbyists it retired judges attorneys lobbyists it really is how they get almost anything really is how they get almost anything really is how they get almost anything done like miscavige himself is not done like miscavige himself is not done like miscavige himself is not hobnob and glad hand and shaking hands hobnob and glad hand and shaking hands hobnob and glad hand and shaking hands and meeting these folks it's the

and meeting these folks it's the and meeting these folks it's the non-scientologist professionals non-scientologist professionals non-scientologist professionals who work behind the scenes on who work behind the scenes on who work behind the scenes on scientology's behalf scientology's behalf scientology's behalf can you describe the Dynamics of that can you describe the Dynamics of that can you describe the Dynamics of that how that actually happens like like why how that actually happens like like why how that actually happens like like why why would the why would the police why would the why would the police why would the why would the police department work on behalf of Scientology department work on behalf of Scientology department work on behalf of Scientology I meant more the courts and Regulators I meant more the courts and Regulators I meant more the courts and Regulators not the police department but well for not the police department but well for not the police department but well for example it can come down to something as example it can come down to something as example it can come down to something as simple as this sign in Clearwater simple as this sign in Clearwater simple as this sign in Clearwater Scientology hires Clearwater Police to Scientology hires Clearwater Police to Scientology hires Clearwater Police to do off-duty work for them they pay like do off-duty work for them they pay like do off-duty work for them they pay like three times the normal off-duty rate so three times the normal off-duty rate so three times the normal off-duty rate so they will even though I'm not aware of they will even though I'm not aware of they will even though I'm not aware of anyone on the Clearwater PD who's anyone on the Clearwater PD who's anyone on the Clearwater PD who's actually a Scientologist they basically actually a Scientologist they basically actually a Scientologist they basically end up with they would call them allies end up with they would call them allies end up with they would call them allies or safe points right people who like or safe points right people who like or safe points right people who like will literally operate a Scientology will literally operate a Scientology will literally operate a Scientology spies you know if someone comes in and spies you know if someone comes in and spies you know if someone comes in and follows a report about some child sex follows a report about some child sex follows a report about some child sex case someone in the Clearwater PD is case someone in the Clearwater PD is case someone in the Clearwater PD is calling Sarah Heller at the office of calling Sarah Heller at the office of calling Sarah Heller at the office of special Affairs at the Flying Latin base special Affairs at the Flying Latin base special Affairs at the Flying Latin base to let her know hey heads up we got a to let her know hey heads up we got a to let her know hey heads up we got a thing coming in and then Scientology can thing coming in and then Scientology can thing coming in and then Scientology can run around and go talk to all the run around and go talk to all the run around and go talk to all the scientologists who have knowledge about scientologists who have knowledge about scientologists who have knowledge about this and either get them out of clear this and either get them out of clear this and either get them out of clear water you know so it's not like uh water you know so it's not like uh water you know so it's not like uh direct explicit corruption but more just direct explicit corruption but more just direct explicit corruption but more just uh friends and co-workers yeah uh friends and co-workers yeah uh friends and co-workers yeah integrated deeply in in the in the integrated deeply in in the in the integrated deeply in in the in the community yeah I call it soft corruption community yeah I call it soft corruption community yeah I call it soft corruption so on another example you have so on another example you have so on another example you have um the mayor of Clearwater Frank Hibbard um the mayor of Clearwater Frank Hibbard um the mayor of Clearwater Frank Hibbard um well he used to when when he won his um well he used to when when he won his um well he used to when when he won his recent election he stepped down from recent election he stepped down from recent election he stepped down from some of these nonprofits that he served some of these nonprofits that he served some of these nonprofits that he served on but the non-profits that he served on on but the non-profits that he served on on but the non-profits that he served on also gets millions of dollars of

also gets millions of dollars of also gets millions of dollars of donations from some of scientology's donations from some of scientology's donations from some of scientology's richest Clearwater members right you richest Clearwater members right you richest Clearwater members right you have one of the mayor's best friends Joe have one of the mayor's best friends Joe have one of the mayor's best friends Joe Burdette literally a paid lobbyist for Burdette literally a paid lobbyist for Burdette literally a paid lobbyist for Scientology so that creates a chilling Scientology so that creates a chilling Scientology so that creates a chilling effect effect effect on anyone who's going to be talking on anyone who's going to be talking on anyone who's going to be talking smack about scientology because smack about scientology because smack about scientology because his friends are on their damn payroll so his friends are on their damn payroll so his friends are on their damn payroll so um I call it soft corruption it's not um I call it soft corruption it's not um I call it soft corruption it's not illegal it's not illegal illegal it's not illegal illegal it's not illegal um but it's how Scientology wields um but it's how Scientology wields um but it's how Scientology wields influence and what's what's ironic is influence and what's what's ironic is influence and what's what's ironic is that a lot of these people who work on that a lot of these people who work on that a lot of these people who work on Scientology behalf actually secretly Scientology behalf actually secretly Scientology behalf actually secretly hate Scientology hate Scientology hate Scientology they kind of see through it but as part they kind of see through it but as part they kind of see through it but as part of the community I mean it's deeply of the community I mean it's deeply of the community I mean it's deeply integrated in the community and there's integrated in the community and there's integrated in the community and there's financial leverage financial leverage financial leverage um are you ever afraid um are you ever afraid um are you ever afraid I mean afraid for your well-being afraid I mean afraid for your well-being afraid I mean afraid for your well-being afraid for your ability to function in society for your ability to function in society for your ability to function in society because of the pressures from because of the pressures from because of the pressures from Scientology no is that because you're Scientology no is that because you're Scientology no is that because you're genetically malfunctioning or or genetically malfunctioning or or genetically malfunctioning or or mentally or or is it or is there mentally or or is it or is there mentally or or is it or is there speaking out as a kind of protection I speaking out as a kind of protection I speaking out as a kind of protection I think it's one of those things that once think it's one of those things that once think it's one of those things that once you've seen behind the curtain and you you've seen behind the curtain and you you've seen behind the curtain and you see The Wizard of Oz is just a silly man see The Wizard of Oz is just a silly man see The Wizard of Oz is just a silly man you just don't have any fear now it's you just don't have any fear now it's you just don't have any fear now it's one of these things like people say oh one of these things like people say oh one of these things like people say oh you're so brave and I go huh what's that you're so brave and I go huh what's that you're so brave and I go huh what's that quote bravery is you know being a quote bravery is you know being a quote bravery is you know being a soldier and being afraid and going in soldier and being afraid and going in soldier and being afraid and going in any way any way any way it's not rapes running if you don't it's not rapes running if you don't it's not rapes running if you don't think nothing's gonna happen to you like think nothing's gonna happen to you like think nothing's gonna happen to you like so I'm just trying to like I do not hold so I'm just trying to like I do not hold so I'm just trying to like I do not hold myself up as an example of Bravery myself up as an example of Bravery myself up as an example of Bravery because yeah I it's not like oh they

because yeah I it's not like oh they because yeah I it's not like oh they could destroy me but I don't care no could destroy me but I don't care no could destroy me but I don't care no there's not a damn thing they can do to there's not a damn thing they can do to there's not a damn thing they can do to me and it's one of that's one of the me and it's one of that's one of the me and it's one of that's one of the reasons I continue to put out content reasons I continue to put out content reasons I continue to put out content every day to just basically go hey still every day to just basically go hey still every day to just basically go hey still here here here I dare you to try to do something about I dare you to try to do something about I dare you to try to do something about it but you can't and hope that that also it but you can't and hope that that also it but you can't and hope that that also serves as kind of an example for other serves as kind of an example for other serves as kind of an example for other people to go if this Schmo can do it people to go if this Schmo can do it people to go if this Schmo can do it yeah and they can't do anything else to yeah and they can't do anything else to yeah and they can't do anything else to him then maybe I can do it too because I him then maybe I can do it too because I him then maybe I can do it too because I would love it I would love there for be would love it I would love there for be would love it I would love there for be a 20 channels where former a 20 channels where former a 20 channels where former scientologists talk about their scientologists talk about their scientologists talk about their experience I mean that is bravery experience I mean that is bravery experience I mean that is bravery because what happens is fear seeps in because what happens is fear seeps in because what happens is fear seeps in even if it's not grounded in reality but even if it's not grounded in reality but even if it's not grounded in reality but at the same time like uh you know at the same time like uh you know at the same time like uh you know um my grandfather who uh fought in in um my grandfather who uh fought in in um my grandfather who uh fought in in World War II I mean the story is I mean World War II I mean the story is I mean World War II I mean the story is I mean he was very convinced and sure most of he was very convinced and sure most of he was very convinced and sure most of the people he fought alongside with died the people he fought alongside with died the people he fought alongside with died he was a machine gunner but he believed he was a machine gunner but he believed he was a machine gunner but he believed that bullets can't hit him right that's that bullets can't hit him right that's that bullets can't hit him right that's what he said well you know sir he was what he said well you know sir he was what he said well you know sir he was right right right right because he survived so there's right because he survived so there's right because he survived so there's some sense like you're never biased that some sense like you're never biased that some sense like you're never biased that he's like just like yours like I'm not he's like just like yours like I'm not he's like just like yours like I'm not brave I just the boys can't hit me brave I just the boys can't hit me brave I just the boys can't hit me I mean there's a dark kind of Truth to I mean there's a dark kind of Truth to I mean there's a dark kind of Truth to that there's some you know it's like uh that there's some you know it's like uh that there's some you know it's like uh it's it's a feedback loop where if you it's it's a feedback loop where if you it's it's a feedback loop where if you have the confidence and you push on have the confidence and you push on have the confidence and you push on forward and you're brave in that way to forward and you're brave in that way to forward and you're brave in that way to not let fear see pen and affect you it not let fear see pen and affect you it not let fear see pen and affect you it actually gives you less things to be actually gives you less things to be actually gives you less things to be scared about and yeah I mean but that scared about and yeah I mean but that scared about and yeah I mean but that initial few steps might be uh for people

initial few steps might be uh for people initial few steps might be uh for people it might be a very difficult stuff to it might be a very difficult stuff to it might be a very difficult stuff to take to talk about publicly the fear was take to talk about publicly the fear was take to talk about publicly the fear was knowing how the family was going to be knowing how the family was going to be knowing how the family was going to be destroyed and trying to prevent that I destroyed and trying to prevent that I destroyed and trying to prevent that I was terrified of that happening was terrified of that happening was terrified of that happening but it happened but it happened but it happened there's nothing left to be afraid of and there's nothing left to be afraid of and there's nothing left to be afraid of and that's kind of the thing like they that's kind of the thing like they that's kind of the thing like they created this Beast and the same is true created this Beast and the same is true created this Beast and the same is true for Mark Headley the same is true from for Mark Headley the same is true from for Mark Headley the same is true from Mike render I I said they've essentially Mike render I I said they've essentially Mike render I I said they've essentially created a Scientology proof virus created a Scientology proof virus created a Scientology proof virus Scientology resistant strain by throwing Scientology resistant strain by throwing Scientology resistant strain by throwing everything they have at us for so many everything they have at us for so many everything they have at us for so many years years years they have just through natural selection they have just through natural selection they have just through natural selection created people who just do not give a created people who just do not give a created people who just do not give a damn about anything they could or would damn about anything they could or would damn about anything they could or would do and maybe there is something a little do and maybe there is something a little do and maybe there is something a little wrong with me because when I get a phone wrong with me because when I get a phone wrong with me because when I get a phone call from someone like I just got this call from someone like I just got this call from someone like I just got this phone call about you and it's clear that phone call about you and it's clear that phone call about you and it's clear that it's Scientology pis doing work behind it's Scientology pis doing work behind it's Scientology pis doing work behind the scenes I get really excited the scenes I get really excited the scenes I get really excited I get really excited I don't get nervous I get really excited I don't get nervous I get really excited I don't get nervous I'm like oh no it's happening like oh I'm like oh no it's happening like oh I'm like oh no it's happening like oh yeah this is going to be exciting I'm yeah this is going to be exciting I'm yeah this is going to be exciting I'm like okay because everything they try to like okay because everything they try to like okay because everything they try to do to me do to me do to me I'm gonna figure out how to reflect it I'm gonna figure out how to reflect it I'm gonna figure out how to reflect it back on them and make them look back on them and make them look back on them and make them look ridiculous and that pales in comparison ridiculous and that pales in comparison ridiculous and that pales in comparison to the separating from family exactly to the separating from family exactly to the separating from family exactly what is there is there parts of your what is there is there parts of your what is there is there parts of your family that you've lost because of family that you've lost because of family that you've lost because of Scientology just yes just yes if you most most of my episode

of my episode of my episode on the Lee Remedy in the aftermath show on the Lee Remedy in the aftermath show on the Lee Remedy in the aftermath show was talking about me and my twin brother it's just a pretty horrible story it's it's just a pretty horrible story it's just a pretty horrible story so I do just a pretty horrible story so I do just a pretty horrible story so I do have a younger brother who's still in have a younger brother who's still in have a younger brother who's still in Scientology and disconnected from me but Scientology and disconnected from me but Scientology and disconnected from me but I never had much of a relationship I never had much of a relationship I never had much of a relationship um with that brother um with that brother um with that brother um um um really to begin with right really to begin with right really to begin with right um but my twin brother died when I was um but my twin brother died when I was um but my twin brother died when I was like 23 or 24. like 23 or 24. like 23 or 24. and that was without any question a and that was without any question a and that was without any question a direct result of direct result of direct result of um um um our Scientology experience you know he our Scientology experience you know he our Scientology experience you know he died in a car accident that wasn't died in a car accident that wasn't died in a car accident that wasn't technically his fault or anything like technically his fault or anything like technically his fault or anything like he wasn't even the one driving but uh he wasn't even the one driving but uh he wasn't even the one driving but uh the fact the the specific fact of his the fact the the specific fact of his the fact the the specific fact of his death was not meaning like the the fact death was not meaning like the the fact death was not meaning like the the fact and the manner of his death and wasn't and the manner of his death and wasn't and the manner of his death and wasn't like specifically because of Scientology like specifically because of Scientology like specifically because of Scientology but our story and how uh where our but our story and how uh where our but our story and how uh where our relationship got to relationship got to relationship got to and how he was even in a position and how he was even in a position and how he was even in a position of having something like that happen to of having something like that happen to of having something like that happen to him is directly attributable to him is directly attributable to him is directly attributable to Scientology Scientology Scientology do you think about him miss him it's part of what you're doing in memory it's part of what you're doing in memory of him of him of him yeah for sure man this is I mean you know we were man this is I mean you know we were identical twins can you imagine two of identical twins can you imagine two of identical twins can you imagine two of me barely handle one barely handle one I love it I love it I love it losing him would that be the darkest

losing him would that be the darkest losing him would that be the darkest moment in this whole journey of moment in this whole journey of moment in this whole journey of Scientology for you Scientology for you Scientology for you two moments would equal the darkest two moments would equal the darkest two moments would equal the darkest moment it it would be that moment it it would be that moment it it would be that and also just the period of you know and also just the period of you know and also just the period of you know six nine twelve months of impending doom knowing that my wife's whole family was knowing that my wife's whole family was gonna be obliterated gonna be obliterated gonna be obliterated and that there's nothing we could do and that there's nothing we could do and that there's nothing we could do about it and uh and uh and kind of telling ourselves every step and kind of telling ourselves every step and kind of telling ourselves every step of the way it wasn't really going to of the way it wasn't really going to of the way it wasn't really going to happen happen happen you know um and I really felt like um and I really felt like you ever watch the Ozarks I felt like you ever watch the Ozarks I felt like you ever watch the Ozarks I felt like Marty bird now this was happening before Marty bird now this was happening before Marty bird now this was happening before the Ozarks but when I watched the Ozarks the Ozarks but when I watched the Ozarks the Ozarks but when I watched the Ozarks and I see that character and I see that character and I see that character the entire world is crumbling down the entire world is crumbling down the entire world is crumbling down around him and all he can around him and all he can around him and all he can oh I did my oh I did my oh I did my all right what's the next step I watch all right what's the next step I watch all right what's the next step I watch Marty bird and I go that's my fucking Marty bird and I go that's my fucking Marty bird and I go that's my fucking spirit animal spirit animal spirit animal because you can only control what you because you can only control what you because you can only control what you can control can control can control and um you can't keep Scientology from and um you can't keep Scientology from and um you can't keep Scientology from destroying your family and and literally destroying your family and and literally destroying your family and and literally like I it's funny I mentioned the show a like I it's funny I mentioned the show a like I it's funny I mentioned the show a lot because I watched that and I go like lot because I watched that and I go like lot because I watched that and I go like that's exactly how I felt you know I that's exactly how I felt you know I that's exactly how I felt you know I talk about this six months or nine or 12 talk about this six months or nine or 12 talk about this six months or nine or 12 months whatever it was of impending doom months whatever it was of impending doom months whatever it was of impending doom it's not like I was an emotional wreck it's not like I was an emotional wreck it's not like I was an emotional wreck during that time you know in private I during that time you know in private I during that time you know in private I was but it's not like was but it's not like was but it's not like I was just freaking out it was like

I was just freaking out it was like I was just freaking out it was like the sun's gonna come up tomorrow the the sun's gonna come up tomorrow the the sun's gonna come up tomorrow the World's Gonna keep spinning I can't World's Gonna keep spinning I can't World's Gonna keep spinning I can't control it this is hard I can't believe control it this is hard I can't believe control it this is hard I can't believe this is happening this is happening this is happening but tomorrow's a new day but tomorrow's a new day but tomorrow's a new day um I've never personally even at the um I've never personally even at the um I've never personally even at the darkest times I've never experienced darkest times I've never experienced darkest times I've never experienced anything that I would characterize as anything that I would characterize as anything that I would characterize as depression certainly not ever any depression certainly not ever any depression certainly not ever any suicidal thoughts or anything even in suicidal thoughts or anything even in suicidal thoughts or anything even in the darkest of times I and again this the darkest of times I and again this the darkest of times I and again this one thing I go is it because of one thing I go is it because of one thing I go is it because of Scientology or is it just me there Scientology or is it just me there Scientology or is it just me there really is an emotional detachment really is an emotional detachment really is an emotional detachment there almost has to be and it's a cold there almost has to be and it's a cold there almost has to be and it's a cold calculation what what are my options calculation what what are my options calculation what what are my options what do I do here and then once I figure what do I do here and then once I figure what do I do here and then once I figure out the answer to that question I'm out the answer to that question I'm out the answer to that question I'm actually quite chipper and happy actually quite chipper and happy actually quite chipper and happy you know like that's sort of my default you know like that's sort of my default you know like that's sort of my default like you could give me six horrible like you could give me six horrible like you could give me six horrible options once I figure out the best of options once I figure out the best of options once I figure out the best of those six I'm gonna feel like I just had those six I'm gonna feel like I just had those six I'm gonna feel like I just had a pretty good day that's brilliant a pretty good day that's brilliant a pretty good day that's brilliant because I just watching Ozarks is so because I just watching Ozarks is so because I just watching Ozarks is so stressful it is right it's so stressful stressful it is right it's so stressful stressful it is right it's so stressful watching it is it watching it is it watching it is it and uh he usually finds a way and uh he usually finds a way and uh he usually finds a way and usually it is a set of really bad and usually it is a set of really bad and usually it is a set of really bad options and it's one of the bad options options and it's one of the bad options options and it's one of the bad options what's the best of the bad options and what's the best of the bad options and what's the best of the bad options and he almost gets pissed off at everyone he almost gets pissed off at everyone he almost gets pissed off at everyone around him for being so pouty about it but you know what's that show again the but you know what's that show again the same way again oh but you know it's like same way again oh but you know it's like same way again oh but you know it's like you know it's still simmering there you know it's still simmering there you know it's still simmering there right under the surface it's like pretty right under the surface it's like pretty right under the surface it's like pretty damn close to the surface do you know damn close to the surface do you know damn close to the surface do you know what I mean yeah yeah and um

what I mean yeah yeah and um what I mean yeah yeah and um people sometimes ask about recovery and people sometimes ask about recovery and people sometimes ask about recovery and whatnot and like what does that look whatnot and like what does that look whatnot and like what does that look like and what does that mean and it sort like and what does that mean and it sort like and what does that mean and it sort of goes back to kind of the emotional of goes back to kind of the emotional of goes back to kind of the emotional Detachment is I go what the fuck does Detachment is I go what the fuck does Detachment is I go what the fuck does recovery even mean if you're an recovery even mean if you're an recovery even mean if you're an alcoholic and you're recovering you know alcoholic and you're recovering you know alcoholic and you're recovering you know what that means I used to drink I don't what that means I used to drink I don't what that means I used to drink I don't drink now well I used to be an occult drink now well I used to be an occult drink now well I used to be an occult and I'm not an occult now how else am I and I'm not an occult now how else am I and I'm not an occult now how else am I supposed to feel about this for someone supposed to feel about this for someone supposed to feel about this for someone to be like it seems like you've to be like it seems like you've to be like it seems like you've recovered what the fuck does that even recovered what the fuck does that even recovered what the fuck does that even mean mean mean like I'm sure some academic has an like I'm sure some academic has an like I'm sure some academic has an answer to that question I'm not someone answer to that question I'm not someone answer to that question I'm not someone who particular I don't spend any time who particular I don't spend any time who particular I don't spend any time thinking about that my recovery is thinking about that my recovery is thinking about that my recovery is success and a little bit of trolling and success and a little bit of trolling and success and a little bit of trolling and revenge yeah but mostly success you know revenge yeah but mostly success you know revenge yeah but mostly success you know what does it mean to be a recovered what does it mean to be a recovered what does it mean to be a recovered former cult member what you don't cry former cult member what you don't cry former cult member what you don't cry when people ask you about your brother I when people ask you about your brother I when people ask you about your brother I don't know what it means don't know what it means don't know what it means um I've never had therapy but not um I've never had therapy but not um I've never had therapy but not because I'm still like against it from because I'm still like against it from because I'm still like against it from Scientology I just like Scientology I just like Scientology I just like I'm not gonna pay to talk to someone do I'm not gonna pay to talk to someone do I'm not gonna pay to talk to someone do you know where else I could do that you know where else I could do that you know where else I could do that Scientology now I know there's a lot of Scientology now I know there's a lot of Scientology now I know there's a lot of people going like oh boy I know it's a people going like oh boy I know it's a people going like oh boy I know it's a lot I'm not shitting on therapy lot I'm not shitting on therapy lot I'm not shitting on therapy I would rather have a beer with my I would rather have a beer with my I would rather have a beer with my friend and talk about this shit yeah friend and talk about this shit yeah friend and talk about this shit yeah than talk to a professional for 200 an than talk to a professional for 200 an than talk to a professional for 200 an hour as a kind of therapy yeah yeah yeah hour as a kind of therapy yeah yeah yeah hour as a kind of therapy yeah yeah yeah listen that's the important part of the listen that's the important part of the listen that's the important part of the reason I do this podcast is talking to reason I do this podcast is talking to reason I do this podcast is talking to people that you care about the that people that you care about the that people that you care about the that you're close with this is a really you're close with this is a really you're close with this is a really powerful powerful thing but yeah I don't powerful powerful thing but yeah I don't powerful powerful thing but yeah I don't know what recovery looks like and know what recovery looks like and know what recovery looks like and success to you is defined just be find success to you is defined just be find success to you is defined just be find happiness find happiness outside the happiness find happiness outside the happiness find happiness outside the closed bubble that defines What closed bubble that defines What closed bubble that defines What happiness looks like a Scientology if I happiness looks like a Scientology if I happiness looks like a Scientology if I can make my kids happy that's success to

can make my kids happy that's success to can make my kids happy that's success to me me me what advice would you give to your kids what advice would you give to your kids what advice would you give to your kids on how to live travel the world a life on how to live travel the world a life on how to live travel the world a life they can be proud of travel the world they can be proud of travel the world they can be proud of travel the world travel the world travel the world travel the world um get rid of friends who don't push you um get rid of friends who don't push you um get rid of friends who don't push you up and tear and don't celebrate your up and tear and don't celebrate your up and tear and don't celebrate your success it's it's hard to give that success it's it's hard to give that success it's it's hard to give that advice to young children because kids advice to young children because kids advice to young children because kids are always so catty are always so catty are always so catty but honestly it's like when I see but honestly it's like when I see but honestly it's like when I see that that really is I just think not that that really is I just think not that that really is I just think not just advice to my kids but some of the just advice to my kids but some of the just advice to my kids but some of the best advice to anybody yeah if you've best advice to anybody yeah if you've best advice to anybody yeah if you've got anyone got anyone got anyone around you who doesn't celebrate your around you who doesn't celebrate your around you who doesn't celebrate your success just spend less time success just spend less time success just spend less time with those people with those people with those people surround yourself with people who surround yourself with people who surround yourself with people who actually want to celebrate your success actually want to celebrate your success actually want to celebrate your success and push you to succeed I think that's and push you to succeed I think that's and push you to succeed I think that's true I think it's even more important at true I think it's even more important at true I think it's even more important at a young age because if if at a young age a young age because if if at a young age a young age because if if at a young age you get used to being around people who you get used to being around people who you get used to being around people who kind of take joy and tearing you down kind of take joy and tearing you down kind of take joy and tearing you down then that's what you become accustomed then that's what you become accustomed then that's what you become accustomed to yeah you know and I just think you to yeah you know and I just think you to yeah you know and I just think you know know know having friends who love you and support having friends who love you and support having friends who love you and support you is just about you is just about you is just about closest thing to closest thing to closest thing to the true meaning of life the true meaning of life the true meaning of life and uh who believe in you who believe in and uh who believe in you who believe in and uh who believe in you who believe in your potential and some of those ideas your potential and some of those ideas your potential and some of those ideas underlie the good parts of Scientology underlie the good parts of Scientology underlie the good parts of Scientology yeah and uh except there's a lot of dark yeah and uh except there's a lot of dark yeah and uh except there's a lot of dark parts of Scientology that separate you parts of Scientology that separate you parts of Scientology that separate you from the people that believe in you and from the people that believe in you and from the people that believe in you and that love you well this is a beautiful conversation well this is a beautiful conversation you're a beautiful human being who uh you're a beautiful human being who uh you're a beautiful human being who uh came full of gifts came full of gifts came full of gifts and I I mean I I genuinely uh first of and I I mean I I genuinely uh first of and I I mean I I genuinely uh first of all you're an aspiring human being

all you're an aspiring human being all you're an aspiring human being but most importantly I can't wait until but most importantly I can't wait until but most importantly I can't wait until I can purchase a bobble head I can purchase a bobble head I can purchase a bobble head on the store on the store on the store so I can keep that inspiration on my so I can keep that inspiration on my so I can keep that inspiration on my desk at desktop uh Aaron thank you so desk at desktop uh Aaron thank you so desk at desktop uh Aaron thank you so much for talking today thank you for much for talking today thank you for much for talking today thank you for being you for being brave I know you being you for being brave I know you being you for being brave I know you said you're not but uh thank you for said you're not but uh thank you for said you're not but uh thank you for being brave for talking about this being brave for talking about this being brave for talking about this you're an inspiration and you you help a you're an inspiration and you you help a you're an inspiration and you you help a lot of people thank you brother thanks lot of people thank you brother thanks lot of people thank you brother thanks for having me for having me for having me thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with Aaron Smith Levin to conversation with Aaron Smith Levin to conversation with Aaron Smith Levin to support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from Ralph Waldo Emerson Ralph Waldo Emerson Ralph Waldo Emerson be not the slave of your own past be not the slave of your own past be not the slave of your own past plunge into the sublime Seas dive deep plunge into the sublime Seas dive deep plunge into the sublime Seas dive deep and swim far and swim far and swim far so you will come back with new so you will come back with new so you will come back with new self-respect with new power and with an self-respect with new power and with an self-respect with new power and with an advanced experience that will explain advanced experience that will explain advanced experience that will explain and Overlook the old and Overlook the old and Overlook the old thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see you next time