Joscha Bach: Life, Intelligence, Consciousness, AI & the Future of Humans | Lex Fridman Podcast #392

there is a certain perspective where you there is a certain perspective where you might be thinking what is the longest might be thinking what is the longest might be thinking what is the longest possible game that you could be playing possible game that you could be playing possible game that you could be playing a short game is for instance cancer is a short game is for instance cancer is a short game is for instance cancer is playing a shorter game than your playing a shorter game than your playing a shorter game than your organism it kind of is an organism organism it kind of is an organism organism it kind of is an organism playing a shorter game than the regular playing a shorter game than the regular playing a shorter game than the regular organism and because the Cancer Cannot organism and because the Cancer Cannot organism and because the Cancer Cannot procreate beyond the organism procreate beyond the organism procreate beyond the organism um except for some infectious cancers um except for some infectious cancers um except for some infectious cancers like the ones that eradicated the like the ones that eradicated the like the ones that eradicated the testimonial Devils testimonial Devils testimonial Devils you typically end up with the situation you typically end up with the situation you typically end up with the situation where the organism dies together with where the organism dies together with where the organism dies together with stick cancer because the cancer has stick cancer because the cancer has stick cancer because the cancer has destroyed the larger system due to destroyed the larger system due to destroyed the larger system due to playing a shorter game and so ideally playing a shorter game and so ideally playing a shorter game and so ideally you want to I think build agents that you want to I think build agents that you want to I think build agents that play the longest possible games and the play the longest possible games and the play the longest possible games and the longest possible games is to keep longest possible games is to keep longest possible games is to keep entropy at Bay as long as possible by entropy at Bay as long as possible by entropy at Bay as long as possible by doing interesting stuff the following is a conversation with the following is a conversation with yoshibak his third time on this podcast yoshibak his third time on this podcast yoshibak his third time on this podcast yosha is one of the most brilliant and yosha is one of the most brilliant and yosha is one of the most brilliant and fascinating Minds in the world exploring fascinating Minds in the world exploring fascinating Minds in the world exploring the nature of intelligence Consciousness the nature of intelligence Consciousness the nature of intelligence Consciousness and computation and he's one of my and computation and he's one of my and computation and he's one of my favorite humans to talk to about pretty favorite humans to talk to about pretty favorite humans to talk to about pretty much anything and everything this is the much anything and everything this is the much anything and everything this is the Luxe Friedman podcast the supported Luxe Friedman podcast the supported Luxe Friedman podcast the supported please check out our sponsors in the please check out our sponsors in the please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's yosha Bach yosha Bach yosha Bach you wrote a post about levels of you wrote a post about levels of you wrote a post about levels of lucidity lucidity lucidity quote as we grow older it becomes quote as we grow older it becomes quote as we grow older it becomes apparent that our self-reflexive mind is apparent that our self-reflexive mind is apparent that our self-reflexive mind is not just gradually accumulating ideas not just gradually accumulating ideas not just gradually accumulating ideas about itself but that it progresses in about itself but that it progresses in about itself but that it progresses in somewhat distinct stages

somewhat distinct stages somewhat distinct stages so there's seven of the stages stage one so there's seven of the stages stage one so there's seven of the stages stage one reactive survival infant reactive survival infant reactive survival infant stage two personal self young child stage two personal self young child stage two personal self young child stage three social self adolescence stage three social self adolescence stage three social self adolescence domesticated adult stage four is domesticated adult stage four is domesticated adult stage four is rational agency self-direction stage rational agency self-direction stage rational agency self-direction stage five is self five is self five is self authoring that's full adult you've authoring that's full adult you've authoring that's full adult you've achieved wisdom but there's two more achieved wisdom but there's two more achieved wisdom but there's two more stages stage six is Enlightenment stage stages stage six is Enlightenment stage stages stage six is Enlightenment stage seven is Transcendence can you explain seven is Transcendence can you explain seven is Transcendence can you explain each each each or the interesting parts of each of or the interesting parts of each of or the interesting parts of each of these stages and what's your sense why these stages and what's your sense why these stages and what's your sense why their stages their stages their stages of this uh of Lucidity as we progress of this uh of Lucidity as we progress of this uh of Lucidity as we progress through life in this too short life this through life in this too short life this through life in this too short life this model is derived from concept by the model is derived from concept by the model is derived from concept by the psychologist Robert Keegan and he talks psychologist Robert Keegan and he talks psychologist Robert Keegan and he talks about the development of the self as a about the development of the self as a about the development of the self as a process that happens in principle by process that happens in principle by process that happens in principle by some kind of reverse engineering of a some kind of reverse engineering of a some kind of reverse engineering of a mind where you gradually become aware of mind where you gradually become aware of mind where you gradually become aware of yourself and thereby build structure yourself and thereby build structure yourself and thereby build structure that allows you to interact deeper with that allows you to interact deeper with that allows you to interact deeper with the world and yourself the world and yourself the world and yourself and I found myself using this model not and I found myself using this model not and I found myself using this model not so much as a developmental model I'm not so much as a developmental model I'm not so much as a developmental model I'm not even sure if it's a very good even sure if it's a very good even sure if it's a very good developmental model because I saw my developmental model because I saw my developmental model because I saw my children not progressing exactly like children not progressing exactly like children not progressing exactly like that and I also suspect that you don't that and I also suspect that you don't that and I also suspect that you don't go to these stages necessarily in go to these stages necessarily in go to these stages necessarily in succession and it's not that you work succession and it's not that you work succession and it's not that you work through one stage and then you get into through one stage and then you get into through one stage and then you get into the next one sometimes you revisit them the next one sometimes you revisit them the next one sometimes you revisit them sometimes stuff is happening in parallel sometimes stuff is happening in parallel sometimes stuff is happening in parallel but it's I think a useful framework to but it's I think a useful framework to but it's I think a useful framework to look at what's present in the structure

look at what's present in the structure look at what's present in the structure of a person and how they interact with of a person and how they interact with of a person and how they interact with the world and how they relate to the world and how they relate to the world and how they relate to themselves themselves themselves so it's more like a philosophical so it's more like a philosophical so it's more like a philosophical framework that allows you to talk about framework that allows you to talk about framework that allows you to talk about how mines work and at first when we are how mines work and at first when we are how mines work and at first when we are born we don't have a personal self yet I born we don't have a personal self yet I born we don't have a personal self yet I think instead we have an intentional think instead we have an intentional think instead we have an intentional self and this attention itself is self and this attention itself is self and this attention itself is initially in the infant task that's initially in the infant task that's initially in the infant task that's building a world model and also an building a world model and also an building a world model and also an initial model of the self but mostly initial model of the self but mostly initial model of the self but mostly it's building a game engine in the brain it's building a game engine in the brain it's building a game engine in the brain that is tracking sensory data and uses that is tracking sensory data and uses that is tracking sensory data and uses it to explain it and in some sense you it to explain it and in some sense you it to explain it and in some sense you could compare it to game engine like could compare it to game engine like could compare it to game engine like Minecraft or so sort colors and sounds Minecraft or so sort colors and sounds Minecraft or so sort colors and sounds people are all not physical objects they people are all not physical objects they people are all not physical objects they are creation of our mind at a certain are creation of our mind at a certain are creation of our mind at a certain level of core screening models that are level of core screening models that are level of core screening models that are mathematical that use geometry and that mathematical that use geometry and that mathematical that use geometry and that use manipulation of objects and so on to use manipulation of objects and so on to use manipulation of objects and so on to create scenes in which we can find create scenes in which we can find create scenes in which we can find ourselves and interact with them so ourselves and interact with them so ourselves and interact with them so Minecraft yeah and this personal self is Minecraft yeah and this personal self is Minecraft yeah and this personal self is something that is more or less created something that is more or less created something that is more or less created after the world is finished after it's after the world is finished after it's after the world is finished after it's trained into the system after it has trained into the system after it has trained into the system after it has been constructed and this personal self been constructed and this personal self been constructed and this personal self is an agent that interacts with the is an agent that interacts with the is an agent that interacts with the outside world and the outside world is outside world and the outside world is outside world and the outside world is not the world of quantum mechanics the not the world of quantum mechanics the not the world of quantum mechanics the not the physical universe but it's the not the physical universe but it's the not the physical universe but it's the model that has been generated in our own model that has been generated in our own model that has been generated in our own mind mind mind right and this is us and we experience right and this is us and we experience right and this is us and we experience ourselves interacting with stead outside ourselves interacting with stead outside ourselves interacting with stead outside world that is created inside of our own world that is created inside of our own world that is created inside of our own mind and outside of our self there's

mind and outside of our self there's mind and outside of our self there's feelings and then they presented our feelings and then they presented our feelings and then they presented our interface to this outside world they interface to this outside world they interface to this outside world they pose problems to us these feelings are pose problems to us these feelings are pose problems to us these feelings are basically attitudes that our mind is basically attitudes that our mind is basically attitudes that our mind is Computing that tell us what's needed in Computing that tell us what's needed in Computing that tell us what's needed in the world the things that we are drawn the world the things that we are drawn the world the things that we are drawn to or the things that we are afraid of to or the things that we are afraid of to or the things that we are afraid of and we are tasked with solving this and we are tasked with solving this and we are tasked with solving this problem of satisfying the needs avoiding problem of satisfying the needs avoiding problem of satisfying the needs avoiding the aversions following on our inner the aversions following on our inner the aversions following on our inner commitments and so on and also modeling commitments and so on and also modeling commitments and so on and also modeling ourselves and building the next stage so ourselves and building the next stage so ourselves and building the next stage so after we have this personal self in after we have this personal self in after we have this personal self in stage two online many people form a stage two online many people form a stage two online many people form a social self and this social self allows social self and this social self allows social self and this social self allows the individual to experience themselves the individual to experience themselves the individual to experience themselves as part of a group as part of a group as part of a group it's basically this thing that when you it's basically this thing that when you it's basically this thing that when you are playing in a team for instance you are playing in a team for instance you are playing in a team for instance you don't notice yourself just as a single don't notice yourself just as a single don't notice yourself just as a single note that is reaching out into the world note that is reaching out into the world note that is reaching out into the world but you're also looking down you're but you're also looking down you're but you're also looking down you're looking down from this entire group and looking down from this entire group and looking down from this entire group and you see how this group is looking at you see how this group is looking at you see how this group is looking at this individual and everybody in the this individual and everybody in the this individual and everybody in the group is in some sense emulating this group is in some sense emulating this group is in some sense emulating this group Spirit to some degree and in this group Spirit to some degree and in this group Spirit to some degree and in this state people are forming their opinions state people are forming their opinions state people are forming their opinions by assimilating them from this group by assimilating them from this group by assimilating them from this group mind obviously gain the ability to act a mind obviously gain the ability to act a mind obviously gain the ability to act a little bit like a hive mind body are you little bit like a hive mind body are you little bit like a hive mind body are you also modeling the interaction of how also modeling the interaction of how also modeling the interaction of how opinions shapes and forms through the opinions shapes and forms through the opinions shapes and forms through the interaction of the individual nodes interaction of the individual nodes interaction of the individual nodes within the group within the group within the group yeah it's basically the way in which yeah it's basically the way in which yeah it's basically the way in which people do it in this stage is that they people do it in this stage is that they people do it in this stage is that they experience what are the opinions of my experience what are the opinions of my experience what are the opinions of my environment they experience the environment they experience the environment they experience the relationship that they have to their relationship that they have to their relationship that they have to their environment and they resonate with

environment and they resonate with environment and they resonate with people around them and get moral people around them and get moral people around them and get moral opinions in this through this opinions in this through this opinions in this through this interaction to interaction to interaction to um the way in which they relate to um the way in which they relate to um the way in which they relate to others others others and at stage four you basically and at stage four you basically and at stage four you basically understand that stuff is true and false understand that stuff is true and false understand that stuff is true and false independently but other people believe independently but other people believe independently but other people believe when you have agency over your own when you have agency over your own when you have agency over your own beliefs in that stage you basically beliefs in that stage you basically beliefs in that stage you basically discover epistemology the rules about discover epistemology the rules about discover epistemology the rules about determining what's true and false so you determining what's true and false so you determining what's true and false so you can you start to learn how to think can you start to learn how to think can you start to learn how to think yes I mean at some level you're always yes I mean at some level you're always yes I mean at some level you're always thinking you are constructing things and thinking you are constructing things and thinking you are constructing things and I believe that this ability to reason I believe that this ability to reason I believe that this ability to reason about your mental representation is what about your mental representation is what about your mental representation is what we mean by thinking it's an we mean by thinking it's an we mean by thinking it's an intrinsically reflexive process that intrinsically reflexive process that intrinsically reflexive process that requires Consciousness without requires Consciousness without requires Consciousness without Consciousness you cannot think you can Consciousness you cannot think you can Consciousness you cannot think you can generate the content of feelings and so generate the content of feelings and so generate the content of feelings and so on outside of Consciousness it's very on outside of Consciousness it's very on outside of Consciousness it's very hard to be conscious of how your hard to be conscious of how your hard to be conscious of how your feelings emerge at least in the early feelings emerge at least in the early feelings emerge at least in the early stages of development but um thoughts is stages of development but um thoughts is stages of development but um thoughts is something that you always control something that you always control something that you always control and if you are a nerd like me and if you are a nerd like me and if you are a nerd like me you often have to skip stage three you often have to skip stage three you often have to skip stage three because you'd like the intuitive empathy because you'd like the intuitive empathy because you'd like the intuitive empathy with others because in order to resonate with others because in order to resonate with others because in order to resonate with a group you need to have a quite with a group you need to have a quite with a group you need to have a quite similar architecture and if people are similar architecture and if people are similar architecture and if people are wired differently then it's hard for wired differently then it's hard for wired differently then it's hard for them to resonate with other people and them to resonate with other people and them to resonate with other people and basically have empathy which is not the basically have empathy which is not the basically have empathy which is not the same as compassion but it is a shared same as compassion but it is a shared same as compassion but it is a shared perceptual mental state empathy happens perceptual mental state empathy happens perceptual mental state empathy happens not just via inference about the major not just via inference about the major not just via inference about the major states of others but it's a perception states of others but it's a perception states of others but it's a perception of what other people feel and where

of what other people feel and where of what other people feel and where they're at can't you not have empathy they're at can't you not have empathy they're at can't you not have empathy while also not having a similar while also not having a similar while also not having a similar architecture cognitive architecture as architecture cognitive architecture as architecture cognitive architecture as the others in the group I think yes but the others in the group I think yes but the others in the group I think yes but I experience that too but you need to I experience that too but you need to I experience that too but you need to build something that is like a meta build something that is like a meta build something that is like a meta architecture you need to be able to architecture you need to be able to architecture you need to be able to embrace the architecture of the other to embrace the architecture of the other to embrace the architecture of the other to some degree also find some common ground some degree also find some common ground some degree also find some common ground and it's also this issue that if you are and it's also this issue that if you are and it's also this issue that if you are a nerd Nomis often so people is the a nerd Nomis often so people is the a nerd Nomis often so people is the neurotypical people have difficulty to neurotypical people have difficulty to neurotypical people have difficulty to resonate with you and as a result they resonate with you and as a result they resonate with you and as a result they have difficult the understanding you have difficult the understanding you have difficult the understanding you unless they have enough wisdom to to unless they have enough wisdom to to unless they have enough wisdom to to fear what's going on there well aren't fear what's going on there well aren't fear what's going on there well aren't we in the whole process of the stage we in the whole process of the stage we in the whole process of the stage there is to figure out the API to the there is to figure out the API to the there is to figure out the API to the other humans that have different other humans that have different other humans that have different architecture and you yourself publish architecture and you yourself publish architecture and you yourself publish public documentation for the API public documentation for the API public documentation for the API that that people can interact with for that that people can interact with for that that people can interact with for you isn't this the whole process of you isn't this the whole process of you isn't this the whole process of socializing my experiment as a child socializing my experiment as a child socializing my experiment as a child growing up was that um I did not find growing up was that um I did not find growing up was that um I did not find any way to interface with the stage any way to interface with the stage any way to interface with the stage three people and they didn't do that three people and they didn't do that three people and they didn't do that with me so yeah of course they tried it with me so yeah of course they tried it with me so yeah of course they tried it very hard but it was only when I entered very hard but it was only when I entered very hard but it was only when I entered the mathematics school at ninth grade the mathematics school at ninth grade the mathematics school at ninth grade lots of other nerds were present lots of other nerds were present lots of other nerds were present um that I found people that I could um that I found people that I could um that I found people that I could deeply resonate with and had the deeply resonate with and had the deeply resonate with and had the impression that yes I have friends now I impression that yes I have friends now I impression that yes I have friends now I found my own people and before that I found my own people and before that I found my own people and before that I felt extremely lonely in the world there felt extremely lonely in the world there felt extremely lonely in the world there was basically nobody I could connect to was basically nobody I could connect to was basically nobody I could connect to and and and I remember I remember I remember um there was one moment in all these

um there was one moment in all these um there was one moment in all these years where I was in there was a school years where I was in there was a school years where I was in there was a school exchange and it was the Russian boy kid exchange and it was the Russian boy kid exchange and it was the Russian boy kid from the Russian garnison station in from the Russian garnison station in from the Russian garnison station in Eastern Germany you visit our school and Eastern Germany you visit our school and Eastern Germany you visit our school and we played a game of chess against each we played a game of chess against each we played a game of chess against each other and we looked into each other's other and we looked into each other's other and we looked into each other's eyes and we sat there for two hours eyes and we sat there for two hours eyes and we sat there for two hours playing this game of chess and I had the playing this game of chess and I had the playing this game of chess and I had the impression this is a human being he impression this is a human being he impression this is a human being he understands but I understand understands but I understand understands but I understand we didn't even speak the same language we didn't even speak the same language we didn't even speak the same language I wonder if uh your life could have been I wonder if uh your life could have been I wonder if uh your life could have been different if you knew that it's okay to different if you knew that it's okay to different if you knew that it's okay to be different to have a different be different to have a different be different to have a different architecture architecture architecture whether like accepting that whether like accepting that whether like accepting that the interface is hard to figure out the interface is hard to figure out the interface is hard to figure out takes a long time to figure out and it's takes a long time to figure out and it's takes a long time to figure out and it's okay to be different in fact it's okay to be different in fact it's okay to be different in fact it's beautiful to be different it was not my main concern my main it was not my main concern my main concern was mostly that it was alone concern was mostly that it was alone concern was mostly that it was alone right this was not so much the question right this was not so much the question right this was not so much the question is it okay to be the way I am the I is it okay to be the way I am the I is it okay to be the way I am the I couldn't do much about it so I have to I couldn't do much about it so I have to I couldn't do much about it so I have to I had to deal with it but um my main issue had to deal with it but um my main issue had to deal with it but um my main issue was that I was not sure if I would ever was that I was not sure if I would ever was that I was not sure if I would ever meet anybody growing up meet anybody growing up meet anybody growing up that I would connect to at such a deep that I would connect to at such a deep that I would connect to at such a deep level that I would feel that I could level that I would feel that I could level that I would feel that I could belong so there's a visceral undeniable belong so there's a visceral undeniable belong so there's a visceral undeniable feeling of being alone yes and I noticed feeling of being alone yes and I noticed feeling of being alone yes and I noticed the same thing when I came into the math the same thing when I came into the math the same thing when I came into the math school that I think school that I think school that I think at least half probably two-thirds of at least half probably two-thirds of at least half probably two-thirds of these kids were severely traumatized as these kids were severely traumatized as these kids were severely traumatized as uh children growing up and in large part uh children growing up and in large part uh children growing up and in large part due to being alone due to being alone due to being alone because they couldn't find anybody to because they couldn't find anybody to because they couldn't find anybody to relate to don't you think everybody's relate to don't you think everybody's relate to don't you think everybody's alone deep down no

alone deep down no alone deep down no huh I'm not alone anymore it took me some I'm not alone anymore it took me some time to update and to get over the time to update and to get over the time to update and to get over the traumata and so on but I felt that in my traumata and so on but I felt that in my traumata and so on but I felt that in my 20s I had lots of friends and I had my 20s I had lots of friends and I had my 20s I had lots of friends and I had my place in about and it was I had no place in about and it was I had no place in about and it was I had no longer doubts that longer doubts that longer doubts that I would never be alone again I would never be alone again I would never be alone again is there some aspect to which We're is there some aspect to which We're is there some aspect to which We're Alone Together you don't see a deep Alone Together you don't see a deep Alone Together you don't see a deep loneliness inside yourself still no loneliness inside yourself still no loneliness inside yourself still no sorry okay so that's the non-linear okay so that's the non-linear progression through the stages I suppose progression through the stages I suppose progression through the stages I suppose you caught up on stage three something you caught up on stage three something you caught up on stage three something very it's stage four and so basically I very it's stage four and so basically I very it's stage four and so basically I find that many Nerds jump straight into find that many Nerds jump straight into find that many Nerds jump straight into stage four bypassing stage three did stage four bypassing stage three did stage four bypassing stage three did they return to it then later yeah of they return to it then later yeah of they return to it then later yeah of course they sometimes they do not always course they sometimes they do not always course they sometimes they do not always yeah the question is basically do you yeah the question is basically do you yeah the question is basically do you stay a little bit Autistic or do you stay a little bit Autistic or do you stay a little bit Autistic or do you catch up and I believe you can catch up catch up and I believe you can catch up catch up and I believe you can catch up you can build this missing structure you can build this missing structure you can build this missing structure yeah and um I basically experience yeah and um I basically experience yeah and um I basically experience yourself as part of a group learn yourself as part of a group learn yourself as part of a group learn intuitive empathy and develop the sense intuitive empathy and develop the sense intuitive empathy and develop the sense this percept perceptual sense of feeling this percept perceptual sense of feeling this percept perceptual sense of feeling what other people fear and before that I what other people fear and before that I what other people fear and before that I could only basically feel this when I could only basically feel this when I could only basically feel this when I was deeply enough for somebody and was deeply enough for somebody and was deeply enough for somebody and visitor so there's a lot of friction to visitor so there's a lot of friction to visitor so there's a lot of friction to feeling that way like it takes it only feeling that way like it takes it only feeling that way like it takes it only with certain people as opposed to It with certain people as opposed to It with certain people as opposed to It comes naturally yeah it's frictionless comes naturally yeah it's frictionless comes naturally yeah it's frictionless but um this is something that basically but um this is something that basically but um this is something that basically later I felt started to resolve itself later I felt started to resolve itself later I felt started to resolve itself for me to a large degree what was the

for me to a large degree what was the for me to a large degree what was the trick in many ways scoring up and paying in many ways scoring up and paying attention attention attention meditation the top I had some very meditation the top I had some very meditation the top I had some very crucial experiences crucial experiences crucial experiences um in getting close to people building um in getting close to people building um in getting close to people building connections connections connections um um um cuddling a lot in my student years cuddling a lot in my student years cuddling a lot in my student years so really paying attention yeah to the so really paying attention yeah to the so really paying attention yeah to the what is it to this what is it to this what is it to this feeling another human being fully loving feeling another human being fully loving feeling another human being fully loving other people and being loved by other other people and being loved by other other people and being loved by other people and so building a space in which people and so building a space in which people and so building a space in which you can be safe and can experiment and you can be safe and can experiment and you can be safe and can experiment and um touch a lot and be close to somebody um touch a lot and be close to somebody um touch a lot and be close to somebody a lot and over that over time basically a lot and over that over time basically a lot and over that over time basically at some point you realize oh it's no at some point you realize oh it's no at some point you realize oh it's no longer that I feel locked out but I feel longer that I feel locked out but I feel longer that I feel locked out but I feel connected and I experience where connected and I experience where connected and I experience where somebody else is at and normally my mind somebody else is at and normally my mind somebody else is at and normally my mind is racing very fast at a high frequency is racing very fast at a high frequency is racing very fast at a high frequency so it's not always working like this so it's not always working like this so it's not always working like this sometimes works better sometimes it sometimes works better sometimes it sometimes works better sometimes it works less but also don't see this as a works less but also don't see this as a works less but also don't see this as a pressure it's more it's interesting to pressure it's more it's interesting to pressure it's more it's interesting to observe myself which frequency I'm at observe myself which frequency I'm at observe myself which frequency I'm at and uh at which mode somebody else is at and uh at which mode somebody else is at and uh at which mode somebody else is at yeah man the mind is so beautiful in yeah man the mind is so beautiful in yeah man the mind is so beautiful in that way it sometimes sometimes it comes that way it sometimes sometimes it comes that way it sometimes sometimes it comes so natural to me so easy to pay so natural to me so easy to pay so natural to me so easy to pay attention pay attention to the world attention pay attention to the world attention pay attention to the world fool each other people fully and fool each other people fully and fool each other people fully and sometimes the stress sometimes the stress sometimes the stress over silly things is overwhelming it's over silly things is overwhelming it's over silly things is overwhelming it's so interesting that demise that roller so interesting that demise that roller so interesting that demise that roller coaster in that way and stage five

coaster in that way and stage five coaster in that way and stage five you'll discover how identity is you'll discover how identity is you'll discover how identity is constructed self-offering realize that constructed self-offering realize that constructed self-offering realize that your values are not terminal but they your values are not terminal but they your values are not terminal but they are instrumental to achieving a world are instrumental to achieving a world are instrumental to achieving a world that you like and Aesthetics that you that you like and Aesthetics that you that you like and Aesthetics that you prefer yeah and um the more you prefer yeah and um the more you prefer yeah and um the more you understand this the more you get agency understand this the more you get agency understand this the more you get agency over how your identity is constructed over how your identity is constructed over how your identity is constructed and you realize that identity in and you realize that identity in and you realize that identity in interpersonal interaction is a costume interpersonal interaction is a costume interpersonal interaction is a costume and you should be able to have agency and you should be able to have agency and you should be able to have agency over that costume right it's useful to over that costume right it's useful to over that costume right it's useful to be a costume it tells something to be a costume it tells something to be a costume it tells something to others and that allows to interface in others and that allows to interface in others and that allows to interface in roles but being locked into this is a roles but being locked into this is a roles but being locked into this is a big limitation the word costume kind of big limitation the word costume kind of big limitation the word costume kind of implies that it's fraudulent in some way implies that it's fraudulent in some way implies that it's fraudulent in some way his costume a good word for you like to his costume a good word for you like to his costume a good word for you like to present ourselves to the world in some present ourselves to the world in some present ourselves to the world in some sense I learned a lot about costumes at sense I learned a lot about costumes at sense I learned a lot about costumes at Burning Man before that I did not really Burning Man before that I did not really Burning Man before that I did not really appreciate costumes and saw them more as appreciate costumes and saw them more as appreciate costumes and saw them more as uniforms like wearing a suit if you are uniforms like wearing a suit if you are uniforms like wearing a suit if you are working in a bank or if you are trying working in a bank or if you are trying working in a bank or if you are trying to get startup funding for uh from a VC to get startup funding for uh from a VC to get startup funding for uh from a VC in Switzerland right then you dress up in Switzerland right then you dress up in Switzerland right then you dress up in a particular way and this is mostly in a particular way and this is mostly in a particular way and this is mostly to show the other side that you are to show the other side that you are to show the other side that you are willing to play by the rules and you willing to play by the rules and you willing to play by the rules and you understand what the rules are but um understand what the rules are but um understand what the rules are but um there is something deeper when you write there is something deeper when you write there is something deeper when you write Burning Man your costume becomes Burning Man your costume becomes Burning Man your costume becomes self-expression and there is no boundary self-expression and there is no boundary self-expression and there is no boundary to the self-expression you're basically to the self-expression you're basically to the self-expression you're basically free to wear what you want to express free to wear what you want to express free to wear what you want to express other people what you feel like this day other people what you feel like this day other people what you feel like this day and uh what kind of interactions you and uh what kind of interactions you and uh what kind of interactions you want to have is the customer kind of want to have is the customer kind of want to have is the customer kind of projection projection projection of uh of Who You Are

of uh of Who You Are of uh of Who You Are that's very hard to say because the that's very hard to say because the that's very hard to say because the costume also depends on what other costume also depends on what other costume also depends on what other people see in the costume and this people see in the costume and this people see in the costume and this depends on the context that the other depends on the context that the other depends on the context that the other people understand and you have to create people understand and you have to create people understand and you have to create something if you want to that is legible something if you want to that is legible something if you want to that is legible to the other side and that means to the other side and that means to the other side and that means something to yourself something to yourself something to yourself do we become prisoners of the costume do we become prisoners of the costume do we become prisoners of the costume because everybody expects us some people because everybody expects us some people because everybody expects us some people do but um I think that once you realize do but um I think that once you realize do but um I think that once you realize that you we are costume at Burning Man a that you we are costume at Burning Man a that you we are costume at Burning Man a variety of costumes realize that you variety of costumes realize that you variety of costumes realize that you cannot not wear a costume yeah right cannot not wear a costume yeah right cannot not wear a costume yeah right basically everything that you wear and basically everything that you wear and basically everything that you wear and present to others is something that is present to others is something that is present to others is something that is to some degree in addition to what you to some degree in addition to what you to some degree in addition to what you are deep inside so this stage in are deep inside so this stage in are deep inside so this stage in parentheses you put full adult Karma parentheses you put full adult Karma parentheses you put full adult Karma wisdom why is this full adult wisdom why is this full adult wisdom why is this full adult why would you say this is full why would you say this is full why would you say this is full and why is it wisdom it does allow you and why is it wisdom it does allow you and why is it wisdom it does allow you to understand to understand to understand um why other people have different um why other people have different um why other people have different identities from yours and it allows you identities from yours and it allows you identities from yours and it allows you to understand that the difference to understand that the difference to understand that the difference between people who vote for different between people who vote for different between people who vote for different parties and might have very different parties and might have very different parties and might have very different opinions and different value systems is opinions and different value systems is opinions and different value systems is often the accident of where they are often the accident of where they are often the accident of where they are born and what happened after them after born and what happened after them after born and what happened after them after that to them and what traits they got that to them and what traits they got that to them and what traits they got before they were born and at some point before they were born and at some point before they were born and at some point you realize the perspective where you you realize the perspective where you you realize the perspective where you understand that everybody could be you understand that everybody could be you understand that everybody could be you in a different timeline if you just flip in a different timeline if you just flip in a different timeline if you just flip those bits those bits those bits how many costumes do you have

how many costumes do you have how many costumes do you have I don't count but in more than one I don't count but in more than one I don't count but in more than one yeah of course yeah of course yeah of course how easy is to do costume changes how easy is to do costume changes how easy is to do costume changes throughout the day throughout the day throughout the day it's just a matter of energy and it's just a matter of energy and it's just a matter of energy and interest when you are wearing your interest when you are wearing your interest when you are wearing your pajamas and you switch out of your pajamas and you switch out of your pajamas and you switch out of your pajamas into say a work short and pants pajamas into say a work short and pants pajamas into say a work short and pants you're making a costume change right and you're making a costume change right and you're making a costume change right and if you are putting on a gown you're if you are putting on a gown you're if you are putting on a gown you're making a costume change you could do the making a costume change you could do the making a costume change you could do the same with personality same with personality same with personality you could if if that's what you're into you could if if that's what you're into you could if if that's what you're into there are people which have multiple there are people which have multiple there are people which have multiple personalities for interaction in personalities for interaction in personalities for interaction in multiple worlds right so if somebody multiple worlds right so if somebody multiple worlds right so if somebody works in a store and you put up a works in a store and you put up a works in a store and you put up a storekeeper personality when you're storekeeper personality when you're storekeeper personality when you're working when you're presenting yourself working when you're presenting yourself working when you're presenting yourself at work you develop a step personality at work you develop a step personality at work you develop a step personality for this and the social persona for many for this and the social persona for many for this and the social persona for many people is in some sense a puppet that people is in some sense a puppet that people is in some sense a puppet that they are playing like a marionette and they are playing like a marionette and they are playing like a marionette and if they play this all the time they if they play this all the time they if they play this all the time they might forget that there is something might forget that there is something might forget that there is something behind this this is something what it behind this this is something what it behind this this is something what it feels like to be in your skin and I feels like to be in your skin and I feels like to be in your skin and I guess it's very helpful if you're able guess it's very helpful if you're able guess it's very helpful if you're able to get back into this and for me it's to get back into this and for me it's to get back into this and for me it's the other way around is relatively hard the other way around is relatively hard the other way around is relatively hard for me it's pretty hard to learn how to for me it's pretty hard to learn how to for me it's pretty hard to learn how to play consistent social roles for me it's play consistent social roles for me it's play consistent social roles for me it's much easier just to be real much easier just to be real much easier just to be real or not real but to have or not real but to have or not real but to have a one costume a one costume a one costume no it's not quite the same so basically no it's not quite the same so basically no it's not quite the same so basically when you are wearing a costume at when you are wearing a costume at when you are wearing a costume at Burning Man and say you are an Burning Man and say you are an Burning Man and say you are an extraterrestrial Prince extraterrestrial Prince extraterrestrial Prince um there's something where you are um there's something where you are um there's something where you are expressing in some sense something is

expressing in some sense something is expressing in some sense something is closer to yourself than the way in which closer to yourself than the way in which closer to yourself than the way in which you hide yourself behind a standard you hide yourself behind a standard you hide yourself behind a standard closing when you go out in the city in closing when you go out in the city in closing when you go out in the city in the default world and so this costume the default world and so this costume the default world and so this costume that you're wearing at Burning Man that you're wearing at Burning Man that you're wearing at Burning Man allows you to express more of yourself allows you to express more of yourself allows you to express more of yourself and uh you have a shorter distance of and uh you have a shorter distance of and uh you have a shorter distance of advertising to people advertising to people advertising to people what kind of person you are what kind of what kind of person you are what kind of what kind of person you are what kind of interaction you would want to have with interaction you would want to have with interaction you would want to have with them and so you get much earlier into them and so you get much earlier into them and so you get much earlier into media Express and I believe it's media Express and I believe it's media Express and I believe it's regrettable that we do not use the regrettable that we do not use the regrettable that we do not use the opportunities that we have this opportunities that we have this opportunities that we have this custom-made closing now to weird custom-made closing now to weird custom-made closing now to weird costumes that are much more stylish that costumes that are much more stylish that costumes that are much more stylish that are much more custom-made that are not are much more custom-made that are not are much more custom-made that are not necessarily part of a fashion in which necessarily part of a fashion in which necessarily part of a fashion in which you express which milieu you're part of you express which milieu you're part of you express which milieu you're part of and how up to date you are but you also and how up to date you are but you also and how up to date you are but you also Express Express Express how you are as an individual and what how you are as an individual and what how you are as an individual and what you want to do today and how you feel you want to do today and how you feel you want to do today and how you feel today and what you intend to do about it today and what you intend to do about it today and what you intend to do about it well isn't it easier now with in the well isn't it easier now with in the well isn't it easier now with in the digital world digital world digital world to uh to uh to uh to explore different costumes I mean to explore different costumes I mean to explore different costumes I mean that's the kind of idea with virtual that's the kind of idea with virtual that's the kind of idea with virtual reality that's the idea even with reality that's the idea even with reality that's the idea even with Twitter in two-dimensional screens you Twitter in two-dimensional screens you Twitter in two-dimensional screens you can you can swap all costumes you can be can you can swap all costumes you can be can you can swap all costumes you can be as weird as you want it's easier for as weird as you want it's easier for as weird as you want it's easier for burning man you have to like order burning man you have to like order burning man you have to like order things you have to make things you have things you have to make things you have things you have to make things you have to it's more effort to it's better if to it's more effort to it's better if to it's more effort to it's better if you make them yourselves you make them yourselves you make them yourselves sure but it's just easier to do sure but it's just easier to do sure but it's just easier to do digitally right it's not about easy it's digitally right it's not about easy it's digitally right it's not about easy it's about how to get it right and for me the

about how to get it right and for me the about how to get it right and for me the first Burning Man experience I got first Burning Man experience I got first Burning Man experience I got adopted by a bunch of people in Boston adopted by a bunch of people in Boston adopted by a bunch of people in Boston who direct me to Burning Man and we who direct me to Burning Man and we who direct me to Burning Man and we spent a few weekends doing costumes spent a few weekends doing costumes spent a few weekends doing costumes together and that was an important part together and that was an important part together and that was an important part of the experience where the camp bonded of the experience where the camp bonded of the experience where the camp bonded where people got to know each other and where people got to know each other and where people got to know each other and we basically grew into the experience we basically grew into the experience we basically grew into the experience that we would have later so the that we would have later so the that we would have later so the Extraterrestrial Prince is based on a Extraterrestrial Prince is based on a Extraterrestrial Prince is based on a true story yeah true story yeah true story yeah [Music] [Music] [Music] I can only imagine what that looks like I can only imagine what that looks like I can only imagine what that looks like yosha okay stage six stage six yosha okay stage six stage six yosha okay stage six stage six um at some point you can collapse the um at some point you can collapse the um at some point you can collapse the division between self and personal stuff division between self and personal stuff division between self and personal stuff and world generator again and world generator again and world generator again and a lot of people get there via and a lot of people get there via and a lot of people get there via meditation or some of them get their meditation or some of them get their meditation or some of them get their bias academics some of them by accident bias academics some of them by accident bias academics some of them by accident and you suddenly notice that you are not and you suddenly notice that you are not and you suddenly notice that you are not actually a person but you are a vessel actually a person but you are a vessel actually a person but you are a vessel that can create a person that can create a person that can create a person and the person is still there You and the person is still there You and the person is still there You observe that personal self But You observe that personal self But You observe that personal self But You observe the personal self from the observe the personal self from the observe the personal self from the outside outside outside and you notice it's a representation and and you notice it's a representation and and you notice it's a representation and you might also notice that the word that you might also notice that the word that you might also notice that the word that is being created is a representation if is being created is a representation if is being created is a representation if not then you might experience that I am not then you might experience that I am not then you might experience that I am the Universe I am the thing that is the Universe I am the thing that is the Universe I am the thing that is creating everything and of course what creating everything and of course what creating everything and of course what you're creating is not quantum mechanics you're creating is not quantum mechanics you're creating is not quantum mechanics and the physical Universe what you're and the physical Universe what you're and the physical Universe what you're creating is the scheme engine that is creating is the scheme engine that is creating is the scheme engine that is updating the world and you are creating updating the world and you are creating updating the world and you are creating your valence your feelings your uh and your valence your feelings your uh and your valence your feelings your uh and all the people inside of that world all the people inside of that world all the people inside of that world including the person that you identify including the person that you identify including the person that you identify with yourself in this world are you with yourself in this world are you with yourself in this world are you creating the game engine or are you creating the game engine or are you creating the game engine or are you noticing the game imagine

noticing the game imagine noticing the game imagine um you noticed how you're generating the um you noticed how you're generating the um you noticed how you're generating the game engine game engine game engine and I mean when you are dreaming at and I mean when you are dreaming at and I mean when you are dreaming at night you can uh if you lose have a night you can uh if you lose have a night you can uh if you lose have a lucid dream you can learn how to do this lucid dream you can learn how to do this lucid dream you can learn how to do this deliberately and in principle you can deliberately and in principle you can deliberately and in principle you can also do it during the day and the reason also do it during the day and the reason also do it during the day and the reason why we don't get to do this from the why we don't get to do this from the why we don't get to do this from the beginning and why we don't have agency beginning and why we don't have agency beginning and why we don't have agency of our feelings right away is because we of our feelings right away is because we of our feelings right away is because we would game it before they have the would game it before they have the would game it before they have the necessary amount of wisdom to uh to deal necessary amount of wisdom to uh to deal necessary amount of wisdom to uh to deal with creating this dream that we are in with creating this dream that we are in with creating this dream that we are in you know you don't want to get access to you know you don't want to get access to you know you don't want to get access to cheat codes too quickly otherwise you cheat codes too quickly otherwise you cheat codes too quickly otherwise you won't enjoy so stage five is already won't enjoy so stage five is already won't enjoy so stage five is already pretty rare and Stage six is even more pretty rare and Stage six is even more pretty rare and Stage six is even more rare you both basically find this mostly rare you both basically find this mostly rare you both basically find this mostly this Advanced Buddhist meditators and so this Advanced Buddhist meditators and so this Advanced Buddhist meditators and so on that uh dropping into this stage and on that uh dropping into this stage and on that uh dropping into this stage and can induce it as well and spend time in can induce it as well and spend time in can induce it as well and spend time in it so stage five acquires a good it so stage five acquires a good it so stage five acquires a good therapist stage six requires a good uh therapist stage six requires a good uh therapist stage six requires a good uh Buddhist Buddhist Buddhist spiritual leader it is for instance spiritual leader it is for instance spiritual leader it is for instance could be that is the right thing to do could be that is the right thing to do could be that is the right thing to do but it's not that these stages give you but it's not that these stages give you but it's not that these stages give you scores or levels that you need to scores or levels that you need to scores or levels that you need to advance to it's not that the next stage advance to it's not that the next stage advance to it's not that the next stage is better you live your life in in the is better you live your life in in the is better you live your life in in the motto it works best at any given moment motto it works best at any given moment motto it works best at any given moment and when your mind decides that you and when your mind decides that you and when your mind decides that you should uh have a different configuration should uh have a different configuration should uh have a different configuration then it's building that configuration then it's building that configuration then it's building that configuration and for many people they stay happily at and for many people they stay happily at and for many people they stay happily at stage three and experiences themselves stage three and experiences themselves stage three and experiences themselves as part of groups and there's nothing as part of groups and there's nothing as part of groups and there's nothing wrong with this and for some people this wrong with this and for some people this wrong with this and for some people this doesn't work and they're forced to build doesn't work and they're forced to build doesn't work and they're forced to build more agency over their rational beliefs

more agency over their rational beliefs more agency over their rational beliefs than this and construct their Norms than this and construct their Norms than this and construct their Norms rationally and so they go to this level rationally and so they go to this level rationally and so they go to this level and Stage seven is something that is and Stage seven is something that is and Stage seven is something that is more or less hypothetical that would be more or less hypothetical that would be more or less hypothetical that would be the stage in which it's basically a the stage in which it's basically a the stage in which it's basically a transhuman stage in which you understand transhuman stage in which you understand transhuman stage in which you understand how you work and which the Mind fully how you work and which the Mind fully how you work and which the Mind fully realizes how it's implemented and can realizes how it's implemented and can realizes how it's implemented and can also in principle enter different modes also in principle enter different modes also in principle enter different modes in which it could be implemented and in which it could be implemented and in which it could be implemented and that's the stage that as as far as I that's the stage that as as far as I that's the stage that as as far as I understand is not open to people yet understand is not open to people yet understand is not open to people yet oh but it is possible to the process of oh but it is possible to the process of oh but it is possible to the process of Technology yes and who knows if there Technology yes and who knows if there Technology yes and who knows if there are biological agents that are working are biological agents that are working are biological agents that are working at different time skills than us that at different time skills than us that at different time skills than us that basically become aware of the way in basically become aware of the way in basically become aware of the way in which they are implemented on ecosystems which they are implemented on ecosystems which they are implemented on ecosystems and can change that implementation and and can change that implementation and and can change that implementation and have agency over how they implemented in have agency over how they implemented in have agency over how they implemented in the world and what I find interesting the world and what I find interesting the world and what I find interesting about the discussion about AI alignment about the discussion about AI alignment about the discussion about AI alignment that it seems to be following these that it seems to be following these that it seems to be following these status very much most people seem to be status very much most people seem to be status very much most people seem to be in stage three also according to Robert in stage three also according to Robert in stage three also according to Robert Keegan I think he says that about 85 Keegan I think he says that about 85 Keegan I think he says that about 85 percent of people are in stage three and percent of people are in stage three and percent of people are in stage three and stay there and if you're in stage fear stay there and if you're in stage fear stay there and if you're in stage fear for a three and your opinions are the for a three and your opinions are the for a three and your opinions are the result of social assimilation then what result of social assimilation then what result of social assimilation then what you're mostly worried about and the AI you're mostly worried about and the AI you're mostly worried about and the AI is that the AI might have the wrong is that the AI might have the wrong is that the AI might have the wrong opinions so if the AI is just something opinions so if the AI is just something opinions so if the AI is just something racist or sexist we are all lost because racist or sexist we are all lost because racist or sexist we are all lost because we will assimilate the wrong opinions we will assimilate the wrong opinions we will assimilate the wrong opinions from the AI and so we need to make sure from the AI and so we need to make sure from the AI and so we need to make sure that the AI has the right opinions and that the AI has the right opinions and that the AI has the right opinions and the right values and the right structure the right values and the right structure the right values and the right structure and and and and if you are at stage four that's not and if you are at stage four that's not and if you are at stage four that's not your main concern and so most nerds I

your main concern and so most nerds I your main concern and so most nerds I don't really worry about don't really worry about don't really worry about um the algorithmic bias and the model um the algorithmic bias and the model um the algorithmic bias and the model that it picks up because if there's that it picks up because if there's that it picks up because if there's something wrong with this bias the AI something wrong with this bias the AI something wrong with this bias the AI ultimately will prove it at some point ultimately will prove it at some point ultimately will prove it at some point we'll get it there that it makes we'll get it there that it makes we'll get it there that it makes mathematical proofs about reality and mathematical proofs about reality and mathematical proofs about reality and then it will figure out what's true and then it will figure out what's true and then it will figure out what's true and what's false but you're still worried what's false but you're still worried what's false but you're still worried that AI might turn you into paper clips that AI might turn you into paper clips that AI might turn you into paper clips because it might have the wrong values because it might have the wrong values because it might have the wrong values right so if it's set up is there a wrong right so if it's set up is there a wrong right so if it's set up is there a wrong function that controls its direction in function that controls its direction in function that controls its direction in the world then it might do something the world then it might do something the world then it might do something that is completely horrible and there's that is completely horrible and there's that is completely horrible and there's no easy way to fix it so that's more no easy way to fix it so that's more no easy way to fix it so that's more like a stage four rational as kind of like a stage four rational as kind of like a stage four rational as kind of worry and if you are at stage five worry and if you are at stage five worry and if you are at stage five you're mostly worried that AI is not you're mostly worried that AI is not you're mostly worried that AI is not going to be enlightened fast enough going to be enlightened fast enough going to be enlightened fast enough because you realize that the game is not because you realize that the game is not because you realize that the game is not so much about intelligence but about so much about intelligence but about so much about intelligence but about agency about the ability to control the agency about the ability to control the agency about the ability to control the future and the identity is instrumental future and the identity is instrumental future and the identity is instrumental to this and if you are Are a Human Being to this and if you are Are a Human Being to this and if you are Are a Human Being I think at some level you ought to I think at some level you ought to I think at some level you ought to choose your own identity it's you should choose your own identity it's you should choose your own identity it's you should not have somebody else pick the costume not have somebody else pick the costume not have somebody else pick the costume for you and then wear it but instead you for you and then wear it but instead you for you and then wear it but instead you should be mindful about what you want to should be mindful about what you want to should be mindful about what you want to be in as well and I think if you are an be in as well and I think if you are an be in as well and I think if you are an agent that is fully malleable that can agent that is fully malleable that can agent that is fully malleable that can rewrite its own source code like an AI rewrite its own source code like an AI rewrite its own source code like an AI might do at some point then the identity might do at some point then the identity might do at some point then the identity that you will have is whatever you can that you will have is whatever you can that you will have is whatever you can be be be and in this way the AI will maybe become and in this way the AI will maybe become and in this way the AI will maybe become everything like a planetary control everything like a planetary control everything like a planetary control system and if it does that then if we system and if it does that then if we system and if it does that then if we want to coexist with it it means that it want to coexist with it it means that it want to coexist with it it means that it will have to share purposes with us so

will have to share purposes with us so will have to share purposes with us so it cannot be a transactional it cannot be a transactional it cannot be a transactional relationship we will not be able to use relationship we will not be able to use relationship we will not be able to use reinforcement learning with human reinforcement learning with human reinforcement learning with human feedback to hardwire its values into it feedback to hardwire its values into it feedback to hardwire its values into it but this has to happen it's probably but this has to happen it's probably but this has to happen it's probably that it's conscious so it can relate to that it's conscious so it can relate to that it's conscious so it can relate to our own mode of existence where an our own mode of existence where an our own mode of existence where an observer is observing itself in real observer is observing itself in real observer is observing itself in real time and there's a certain temporal time and there's a certain temporal time and there's a certain temporal frames and the other thing is that it frames and the other thing is that it frames and the other thing is that it probably needs to have some kind of probably needs to have some kind of probably needs to have some kind of transcendental orientation building transcendental orientation building transcendental orientation building shared agency and in the same way as we shared agency and in the same way as we shared agency and in the same way as we do when we are able to enter with each do when we are able to enter with each do when we are able to enter with each other and to a non-transactional other and to a non-transactional other and to a non-transactional relationships and I find that something relationships and I find that something relationships and I find that something that because the Stage 5 is so rare is that because the Stage 5 is so rare is that because the Stage 5 is so rare is is missing in much of the discourse and is missing in much of the discourse and is missing in much of the discourse and I think that we need in some sense I think that we need in some sense I think that we need in some sense focus on how to formalize love how to focus on how to formalize love how to focus on how to formalize love how to understand love and how to build it into understand love and how to build it into understand love and how to build it into the machines that we are currently the machines that we are currently the machines that we are currently building and that are about to become building and that are about to become building and that are about to become smarter than us smarter than us smarter than us well I think this is a good opportunity well I think this is a good opportunity well I think this is a good opportunity to try to sneak up to the idea of to try to sneak up to the idea of to try to sneak up to the idea of enlightenment enlightenment enlightenment uh so you wrote a series of good tweets uh so you wrote a series of good tweets uh so you wrote a series of good tweets about Consciousness and pen psychism so about Consciousness and pen psychism so about Consciousness and pen psychism so let's break it down first you say I let's break it down first you say I let's break it down first you say I suspect the experience that leads to the suspect the experience that leads to the suspect the experience that leads to the pan psychism syndrome of some pan psychism syndrome of some pan psychism syndrome of some philosophers and other Consciousness philosophers and other Consciousness philosophers and other Consciousness enthusiasts enthusiasts enthusiasts represents the realization that we don't represents the realization that we don't represents the realization that we don't end at the self but share a resonant end at the self but share a resonant end at the self but share a resonant Universe representation with every other Universe representation with every other Universe representation with every other Observer coupled to the same universe Observer coupled to the same universe Observer coupled to the same universe this actually eventually leads us to a this actually eventually leads us to a this actually eventually leads us to a lot of interesting questions about Ai lot of interesting questions about Ai lot of interesting questions about Ai and AGI but let's start with this

and AGI but let's start with this and AGI but let's start with this representation what is this resonant representation what is this resonant representation what is this resonant Universe representation and what do you Universe representation and what do you Universe representation and what do you think do we share such a representation think do we share such a representation think do we share such a representation the neuroscientist grossberg has come up the neuroscientist grossberg has come up the neuroscientist grossberg has come up with the cognitive architecture that he with the cognitive architecture that he with the cognitive architecture that he calls the Adaptive resonance Theory and calls the Adaptive resonance Theory and calls the Adaptive resonance Theory and his perspective is that our neurons can his perspective is that our neurons can his perspective is that our neurons can be understood as oscillators that are be understood as oscillators that are be understood as oscillators that are resonating with each other and this resonating with each other and this resonating with each other and this outside phenomena outside phenomena outside phenomena so the course grain model of the so the course grain model of the so the course grain model of the universe that we are building in some universe that we are building in some universe that we are building in some sense is a resonance with objects and sense is a resonance with objects and sense is a resonance with objects and outside of us in the world so basically outside of us in the world so basically outside of us in the world so basically we take up patterns that of the we take up patterns that of the we take up patterns that of the University if we are coupled with and University if we are coupled with and University if we are coupled with and our brain is not so much our brain is not so much our brain is not so much understood as circuitry even though this understood as circuitry even though this understood as circuitry even though this perspective is valid but it's almost an perspective is valid but it's almost an perspective is valid but it's almost an ether in which the individual neurons ether in which the individual neurons ether in which the individual neurons are passing on camera electrical signals are passing on camera electrical signals are passing on camera electrical signals or arbitrary signals across all or arbitrary signals across all or arbitrary signals across all modalities that can be transmitted modalities that can be transmitted modalities that can be transmitted between cells stimulate each other in between cells stimulate each other in between cells stimulate each other in this way and produce patterns that they this way and produce patterns that they this way and produce patterns that they modulate while passing them on and this modulate while passing them on and this modulate while passing them on and this speed of signal progression in the brain speed of signal progression in the brain speed of signal progression in the brain is roughly at the speed of sound is roughly at the speed of sound is roughly at the speed of sound incidentally because the time that it incidentally because the time that it incidentally because the time that it takes for the signals to hop from cell takes for the signals to hop from cell takes for the signals to hop from cell to cell which means it's relatively slow to cell which means it's relatively slow to cell which means it's relatively slow with respect to the world it takes in a with respect to the world it takes in a with respect to the world it takes in a pressurable fraction of a second for a pressurable fraction of a second for a pressurable fraction of a second for a signal to go through the entire signal to go through the entire signal to go through the entire neocortex something like a few hundred neocortex something like a few hundred neocortex something like a few hundred milliseconds and so there's a lot of milliseconds and so there's a lot of milliseconds and so there's a lot of stuff happening in that time where the stuff happening in that time where the stuff happening in that time where the signal is passing through your brain signal is passing through your brain signal is passing through your brain including in the brain itself so nothing including in the brain itself so nothing including in the brain itself so nothing in the brain is assuming that stuff

in the brain is assuming that stuff in the brain is assuming that stuff happens simultaneously everything in the happens simultaneously everything in the happens simultaneously everything in the brain is working in a paradigm where the brain is working in a paradigm where the brain is working in a paradigm where the world has already moved on when you are world has already moved on when you are world has already moved on when you are very ready to do the next thing to your very ready to do the next thing to your very ready to do the next thing to your signal including the signal processing signal including the signal processing signal including the signal processing system itself it's quite a different system itself it's quite a different system itself it's quite a different Paradigm than the one in our digital Paradigm than the one in our digital Paradigm than the one in our digital computers where we currently assume that computers where we currently assume that computers where we currently assume that your GPU or CPU is pretty much globally your GPU or CPU is pretty much globally your GPU or CPU is pretty much globally in the same state in the same state in the same state so you mentioned there the non-dual so you mentioned there the non-dual so you mentioned there the non-dual state and say that some people confuse state and say that some people confuse state and say that some people confuse it for enlightenment yep what's the it for enlightenment yep what's the it for enlightenment yep what's the non-dual state non-dual state non-dual state there is a state in which you notice there is a state in which you notice there is a state in which you notice that you are no longer a person and that you are no longer a person and that you are no longer a person and instead you are one with the universe instead you are one with the universe instead you are one with the universe that speaks to the resonance yes and but that speaks to the resonance yes and but that speaks to the resonance yes and but this one with the universe is of course this one with the universe is of course this one with the universe is of course not accurately modeling that you are not accurately modeling that you are not accurately modeling that you are indeed some God entity or indeed the indeed some God entity or indeed the indeed some God entity or indeed the universe is becoming aware of itself universe is becoming aware of itself universe is becoming aware of itself even though you get this experience I even though you get this experience I even though you get this experience I believe that you get this experience believe that you get this experience believe that you get this experience because your mind is modeling the fact because your mind is modeling the fact because your mind is modeling the fact that you are no longer identified with that you are no longer identified with that you are no longer identified with the personal self on that state but you the personal self on that state but you the personal self on that state but you have transcended this division between have transcended this division between have transcended this division between the self model and the world model and the self model and the world model and the self model and the world model and you are experiencing yourself as your you are experiencing yourself as your you are experiencing yourself as your mind as something that is representing a mind as something that is representing a mind as something that is representing a universe so that's still part of the universe so that's still part of the universe so that's still part of the model yes so it's inside of the model model yes so it's inside of the model model yes so it's inside of the model still you are still inside of patterns still you are still inside of patterns still you are still inside of patterns that are generated in your brain and in that are generated in your brain and in that are generated in your brain and in your organism and what you are now your organism and what you are now your organism and what you are now experiencing is that you're no longer experiencing is that you're no longer experiencing is that you're no longer this personal self in there but you are this personal self in there but you are this personal self in there but you are the entirety of the mind on the its the entirety of the mind on the its the entirety of the mind on the its contents why is it so hard to get there

contents why is it so hard to get there contents why is it so hard to get there a lot of people who get into the state a lot of people who get into the state a lot of people who get into the state think this or associated with think this or associated with think this or associated with Enlightenment I suspect it's a favorite Enlightenment I suspect it's a favorite Enlightenment I suspect it's a favorite training goal for a number of meditators training goal for a number of meditators training goal for a number of meditators but um I think that Enlightenment is in but um I think that Enlightenment is in but um I think that Enlightenment is in some sense more mundane and it's a step some sense more mundane and it's a step some sense more mundane and it's a step further or sideways it's the state where further or sideways it's the state where further or sideways it's the state where you realize that everything is a you realize that everything is a you realize that everything is a representation yeah you say representation yeah you say representation yeah you say Enlightenment is a realization of how Enlightenment is a realization of how Enlightenment is a realization of how experience is implemented yes so experience is implemented yes so experience is implemented yes so basically you notice at some point that basically you notice at some point that basically you notice at some point that your qualia can be deconstructed your qualia can be deconstructed your qualia can be deconstructed reverse engineered what like uh almost reverse engineered what like uh almost reverse engineered what like uh almost like a schematic of it what what uh like a schematic of it what what uh like a schematic of it what what uh you can start with uh looking at the you can start with uh looking at the you can start with uh looking at the face when we look at your own face in face when we look at your own face in face when we look at your own face in the mirror yeah look at your face for a the mirror yeah look at your face for a the mirror yeah look at your face for a few hours in a mirror or for a few few hours in a mirror or for a few few hours in a mirror or for a few minutes at some point it will look very minutes at some point it will look very minutes at some point it will look very weird and you because you notice that weird and you because you notice that weird and you because you notice that there's actually no face you basically there's actually no face you basically there's actually no face you basically start unseeing the face what you see is start unseeing the face what you see is start unseeing the face what you see is the geometry and then you can just the geometry and then you can just the geometry and then you can just assemble the geometry and realize how assemble the geometry and realize how assemble the geometry and realize how that geometry is being constructed in that geometry is being constructed in that geometry is being constructed in your mind your mind your mind and you can learn to modify this so and you can learn to modify this so and you can learn to modify this so basically you can change these basically you can change these basically you can change these generators in your own mind to shift the generators in your own mind to shift the generators in your own mind to shift the face around or to change the face around or to change the face around or to change the construction of the face to change the construction of the face to change the construction of the face to change the way in which the features are being way in which the features are being way in which the features are being assembled why don't we do that more assembled why don't we do that more assembled why don't we do that more often why don't we often why don't we often why don't we start really messing with reality start really messing with reality start really messing with reality without the use of drugs without the use of drugs without the use of drugs or anything else why don't we get good or anything else why don't we get good or anything else why don't we get good at this kind of thing like uh at this kind of thing like uh at this kind of thing like uh um intentionally oh why should we

um intentionally oh why should we um intentionally oh why should we if I would because you can morph reality if I would because you can morph reality if I would because you can morph reality into something into something into something more pleasant for yourself just have fun more pleasant for yourself just have fun more pleasant for yourself just have fun with it with it with it yeah that is probably what you shouldn't yeah that is probably what you shouldn't yeah that is probably what you shouldn't be doing right because outside of your be doing right because outside of your be doing right because outside of your personal self this outer mind is personal self this outer mind is personal self this outer mind is probably a relatively smart agent and probably a relatively smart agent and probably a relatively smart agent and what you often notice is that you have what you often notice is that you have what you often notice is that you have thoughts about how you should live but thoughts about how you should live but thoughts about how you should live but you observe yourself doing different you observe yourself doing different you observe yourself doing different things and have different feelings and things and have different feelings and things and have different feelings and that's because your outer mind doesn't that's because your outer mind doesn't that's because your outer mind doesn't believe you believe you believe you and doesn't believe your rational and doesn't believe your rational and doesn't believe your rational thoughts well can't you just silence the thoughts well can't you just silence the thoughts well can't you just silence the outer mind the thing is that the outer outer mind the thing is that the outer outer mind the thing is that the outer mind is usually smarter than you are mind is usually smarter than you are mind is usually smarter than you are rational thinking is very brittle it's rational thinking is very brittle it's rational thinking is very brittle it's very hard to use logic and symbolic very hard to use logic and symbolic very hard to use logic and symbolic thinking to have an accurate model of thinking to have an accurate model of thinking to have an accurate model of the world the world the world so there is often an underlying system so there is often an underlying system so there is often an underlying system that is looking at your rational that is looking at your rational that is looking at your rational thoughts and then tells you no you're thoughts and then tells you no you're thoughts and then tells you no you're still missing something your gut feeling still missing something your gut feeling still missing something your gut feeling is still saying something else and this is still saying something else and this is still saying something else and this can be for instance you find a partner can be for instance you find a partner can be for instance you find a partner that looks perfect or you find a deal that looks perfect or you find a deal that looks perfect or you find a deal when you build a company or whatever when you build a company or whatever when you build a company or whatever that looks perfect to you and yet at that looks perfect to you and yet at that looks perfect to you and yet at some level you feel something is off and some level you feel something is off and some level you feel something is off and you cannot put your finger on it and the you cannot put your finger on it and the you cannot put your finger on it and the more reason about it the better it looks more reason about it the better it looks more reason about it the better it looks to you but the system that is outside to you but the system that is outside to you but the system that is outside still tells you no no you're missing still tells you no no you're missing still tells you no no you're missing something something something and that system is powerful people call and that system is powerful people call and that system is powerful people call this intuition right intuition is this this intuition right intuition is this this intuition right intuition is this unreflected part of your attitude unreflected part of your attitude unreflected part of your attitude composition and computation where you composition and computation where you composition and computation where you produce a model of how you relate to the produce a model of how you relate to the produce a model of how you relate to the world and what you need to do it in it world and what you need to do it in it world and what you need to do it in it and what you can do on it and what's

and what you can do on it and what's and what you can do on it and what's going to happen that is usually deeper going to happen that is usually deeper going to happen that is usually deeper and and and um often more accurate than your reason um often more accurate than your reason um often more accurate than your reason so if we look at this as you write in so if we look at this as you write in so if we look at this as you write in the tweet the tweet the tweet if you look at this more rigorously as a if you look at this more rigorously as a if you look at this more rigorously as a sort of take the pants like this idea sort of take the pants like this idea sort of take the pants like this idea more seriously almost as a scientific more seriously almost as a scientific more seriously almost as a scientific discipline you write that quote discipline you write that quote discipline you write that quote fascinatingly the pan psychist fascinatingly the pan psychist fascinatingly the pan psychist interpretation seems to lead to interpretation seems to lead to interpretation seems to lead to observations of practical results to a observations of practical results to a observations of practical results to a degree that degree that degree that physics fundamentalists might call physics fundamentalists might call physics fundamentalists might call superstitious reports of long distance superstitious reports of long distance superstitious reports of long distance telepathy and remote causation are telepathy and remote causation are telepathy and remote causation are ubiquitous in the general population I ubiquitous in the general population I ubiquitous in the general population I am not convinced says yoshibak that am not convinced says yoshibak that am not convinced says yoshibak that establishing the empirical reality of establishing the empirical reality of establishing the empirical reality of telepathy would force an update of any telepathy would force an update of any telepathy would force an update of any part of serious academic physics but it part of serious academic physics but it part of serious academic physics but it could trigger an important revolution in could trigger an important revolution in could trigger an important revolution in both neuroscience and AI from a circuit both neuroscience and AI from a circuit both neuroscience and AI from a circuit perspective to a coupled complex perspective to a coupled complex perspective to a coupled complex resonator paradigm resonator paradigm resonator paradigm are you suggesting that are you suggesting that are you suggesting that um there could be some um there could be some um there could be some rigorous rigorous rigorous uh uh uh mathematical wisdom to pan psychist mathematical wisdom to pan psychist mathematical wisdom to pan psychist perspective on the world perspective on the world perspective on the world so first of all pan psychism is the so first of all pan psychism is the so first of all pan psychism is the perspective that Consciousness is perspective that Consciousness is perspective that Consciousness is inseparable for matter in the universe inseparable for matter in the universe inseparable for matter in the universe and I find pan psychism quite and I find pan psychism quite and I find pan psychism quite unsatisfying because it does not explain unsatisfying because it does not explain unsatisfying because it does not explain Consciousness right it does not explain Consciousness right it does not explain Consciousness right it does not explain how this aspect of matter produces it is how this aspect of matter produces it is how this aspect of matter produces it is also going to try to formalize pencilism also going to try to formalize pencilism also going to try to formalize pencilism and write down what it actually means and write down what it actually means and write down what it actually means and with a more formal mathematical and with a more formal mathematical and with a more formal mathematical language it's very difficult to language it's very difficult to language it's very difficult to distinguish it from saying that there is

distinguish it from saying that there is distinguish it from saying that there is a software site to the world in the same a software site to the world in the same a software site to the world in the same way as their software side to what the way as their software side to what the way as their software side to what the transistors are doing in your computer transistors are doing in your computer transistors are doing in your computer so basically there's the pattern at a so basically there's the pattern at a so basically there's the pattern at a certain core screening of the universe certain core screening of the universe certain core screening of the universe that in some reasons of the universe that in some reasons of the universe that in some reasons of the universe leads to observers that are observing leads to observers that are observing leads to observers that are observing themselves themselves themselves right so pen psychism maybe is not even right so pen psychism maybe is not even right so pen psychism maybe is not even when I write it down a position that is when I write it down a position that is when I write it down a position that is distinct from functionalism distinct from functionalism distinct from functionalism but intuitively a lot of people that the but intuitively a lot of people that the but intuitively a lot of people that the activity of matter itself of mechanisms activity of matter itself of mechanisms activity of matter itself of mechanisms in the world is insufficient to explain in the world is insufficient to explain in the world is insufficient to explain it so it's something that needs to be it so it's something that needs to be it so it's something that needs to be intrinsic to matter itself and intrinsic to matter itself and intrinsic to matter itself and you can apart from this abstract idea you can apart from this abstract idea you can apart from this abstract idea have an experience in which you have an experience in which you have an experience in which you experience yourself as being the experience yourself as being the experience yourself as being the universe which I suspect is basically universe which I suspect is basically universe which I suspect is basically happening because you manage to dissolve happening because you manage to dissolve happening because you manage to dissolve the division between personal self and the division between personal self and the division between personal self and mind that you establish as an infant mind that you establish as an infant mind that you establish as an infant when you construct a personal self and when you construct a personal self and when you construct a personal self and transcend it again and understand how it transcend it again and understand how it transcend it again and understand how it works works works but there is something deeper that is but there is something deeper that is but there is something deeper that is that you feel that you're also sharing a that you feel that you're also sharing a that you feel that you're also sharing a state with other people that you um state with other people that you um state with other people that you um have an experience in which you notice have an experience in which you notice have an experience in which you notice that your personal self is moving into that your personal self is moving into that your personal self is moving into everything else that you basically look everything else that you basically look everything else that you basically look out of the eyes of another person that out of the eyes of another person that out of the eyes of another person that um every agent in the world that is an um every agent in the world that is an um every agent in the world that is an observer is in some sense you so if we observer is in some sense you so if we observer is in some sense you so if we forget that we are the same agent so is forget that we are the same agent so is forget that we are the same agent so is it that we feel that or do we actually

it that we feel that or do we actually it that we feel that or do we actually accomplish it so is telepathy possible accomplish it so is telepathy possible accomplish it so is telepathy possible is it real is that for me that's just a is it real is that for me that's just a is it real is that for me that's just a question that I don't really know the question that I don't really know the question that I don't really know the answer to in turing's famous 1950 paper answer to in turing's famous 1950 paper answer to in turing's famous 1950 paper in which he describes the Turing test he in which he describes the Turing test he in which he describes the Turing test he does speculate about telepathy does speculate about telepathy does speculate about telepathy interestingly and thus himself if interestingly and thus himself if interestingly and thus himself if telepathy is real and he thinks that telepathy is real and he thinks that telepathy is real and he thinks that that variable might be what uh it would that variable might be what uh it would that variable might be what uh it would be the implication for AI systems that be the implication for AI systems that be the implication for AI systems that try to be intelligent because he didn't try to be intelligent because he didn't try to be intelligent because he didn't see a mechanism by which a computer see a mechanism by which a computer see a mechanism by which a computer program would become telepathic and I program would become telepathic and I program would become telepathic and I suspect if telepathy would exist or if suspect if telepathy would exist or if suspect if telepathy would exist or if all the reports that you get from people all the reports that you get from people all the reports that you get from people when you ask the normal person on the when you ask the normal person on the when you ask the normal person on the street street street I find that very very often they say I I find that very very often they say I I find that very very often they say I have experiences with telepathy the have experiences with telepathy the have experiences with telepathy the scientists might not be interested in scientists might not be interested in scientists might not be interested in this and might not have a theory about this and might not have a theory about this and might not have a theory about this but I have difficulty explaining it this but I have difficulty explaining it this but I have difficulty explaining it away and so you could say maybe this is away and so you could say maybe this is away and so you could say maybe this is the Superstition maybe it's a false the Superstition maybe it's a false the Superstition maybe it's a false memory or maybe it's a little bit of memory or maybe it's a little bit of memory or maybe it's a little bit of their courses who knows maybe somebody their courses who knows maybe somebody their courses who knows maybe somebody wants to make their own life more wants to make their own life more wants to make their own life more interesting or misremember something but interesting or misremember something but interesting or misremember something but a lot of people report I noticed a lot of people report I noticed a lot of people report I noticed something terrible happened to my something terrible happened to my something terrible happened to my partner and I know this is exactly the partner and I know this is exactly the partner and I know this is exactly the moment it happened where my child had an moment it happened where my child had an moment it happened where my child had an accident and I knew that was happening accident and I knew that was happening accident and I knew that was happening and the child was in a different town and the child was in a different town and the child was in a different town right so maybe it's a false memory where right so maybe it's a false memory where right so maybe it's a false memory where this is later on mistakenly attributed this is later on mistakenly attributed this is later on mistakenly attributed but a lot of people think this is not but a lot of people think this is not but a lot of people think this is not the correct explanation so if something the correct explanation so if something the correct explanation so if something like this was real what would it mean like this was real what would it mean like this was real what would it mean it probably would mean that either your

it probably would mean that either your it probably would mean that either your body is an antenna that is sending body is an antenna that is sending body is an antenna that is sending information over all sorts of channels information over all sorts of channels information over all sorts of channels like like like um maybe just electromagnetic radio um maybe just electromagnetic radio um maybe just electromagnetic radio signals that you're sending over long signals that you're sending over long signals that you're sending over long distances and you get attuned to another distances and you get attuned to another distances and you get attuned to another person that you spend enough time with person that you spend enough time with person that you spend enough time with to get a few bits out of The Ether to to get a few bits out of The Ether to to get a few bits out of The Ether to figure out what this person is doing or figure out what this person is doing or figure out what this person is doing or maybe it's also when you are very close maybe it's also when you are very close maybe it's also when you are very close to somebody and you become empathetic to somebody and you become empathetic to somebody and you become empathetic with them what happens that is that you with them what happens that is that you with them what happens that is that you go into a resonance state with them go into a resonance state with them go into a resonance state with them right similar to when people go into a right similar to when people go into a right similar to when people go into a seance and they go into a trend State seance and they go into a trend State seance and they go into a trend State and they start shifting a video board and they start shifting a video board and they start shifting a video board around on the table I think what happens around on the table I think what happens around on the table I think what happens is that they their minds go by their is that they their minds go by their is that they their minds go by their nervous systems into a resonance state nervous systems into a resonance state nervous systems into a resonance state in which they basically create something in which they basically create something in which they basically create something like a shared dream between them like a shared dream between them like a shared dream between them physical closeness or closeness broadly physical closeness or closeness broadly physical closeness or closeness broadly defined with physical closeness is much defined with physical closeness is much defined with physical closeness is much easier to experience empathy with easier to experience empathy with easier to experience empathy with someone right it's I suspect it would be someone right it's I suspect it would be someone right it's I suspect it would be difficult for me to have empathy for you difficult for me to have empathy for you difficult for me to have empathy for you if you were in a different town also how if you were in a different town also how if you were in a different town also how would that work but if you are very would that work but if you are very would that work but if you are very close to someone you pick up all sorts close to someone you pick up all sorts close to someone you pick up all sorts of signals from their body not just by of signals from their body not just by of signals from their body not just by your eyes but with your entire body and your eyes but with your entire body and your eyes but with your entire body and if the nervous system sits on the other if the nervous system sits on the other if the nervous system sits on the other side and the interstellular side and the interstellular side and the interstellular communication sits on the other side and communication sits on the other side and communication sits on the other side and it's integrating over all these signals it's integrating over all these signals it's integrating over all these signals you can make inferences about the state you can make inferences about the state you can make inferences about the state of the other and it's not just the of the other and it's not just the of the other and it's not just the personal self that does this via personal self that does this via personal self that does this via reasoning but your perceptual system and reasoning but your perceptual system and reasoning but your perceptual system and what basically happens is that your what basically happens is that your what basically happens is that your interact representations are directly interact representations are directly interact representations are directly interacting it's the physical

interacting it's the physical interacting it's the physical um um um resonant models of the universe that resonant models of the universe that resonant models of the universe that exist in your nervous system and in your exist in your nervous system and in your exist in your nervous system and in your body might go into resonance with others body might go into resonance with others body might go into resonance with others and start sharing some of their states and start sharing some of their states and start sharing some of their states so we basically buy next to a big next so we basically buy next to a big next so we basically buy next to a big next to somebody you pick up some of their to somebody you pick up some of their to somebody you pick up some of their Vibes and uh feel without looking at Vibes and uh feel without looking at Vibes and uh feel without looking at them what they're feeling in this moment them what they're feeling in this moment them what they're feeling in this moment and it's difficult for you if you're and it's difficult for you if you're and it's difficult for you if you're very empathetic to detach yourself from very empathetic to detach yourself from very empathetic to detach yourself from it and have an emotional state that is it and have an emotional state that is it and have an emotional state that is completely independent from your completely independent from your completely independent from your environment people who are highly environment people who are highly environment people who are highly empathetic are describing this and now empathetic are describing this and now empathetic are describing this and now imagine that a lot of organisms in in on imagine that a lot of organisms in in on imagine that a lot of organisms in in on this planet have representations of the this planet have representations of the this planet have representations of the environment and operate like this and environment and operate like this and environment and operate like this and they are adjacent to each other and they are adjacent to each other and they are adjacent to each other and overlapping so there's going to be some overlapping so there's going to be some overlapping so there's going to be some degree in which there is basically some degree in which there is basically some degree in which there is basically some change interaction and we are forming change interaction and we are forming change interaction and we are forming some slightly shared representation and some slightly shared representation and some slightly shared representation and no relatively few neuroscientists who no relatively few neuroscientists who no relatively few neuroscientists who consider this possibility I think big um consider this possibility I think big um consider this possibility I think big um Rarity in this regard is Mac 11 who is Rarity in this regard is Mac 11 who is Rarity in this regard is Mac 11 who is considering these things in earnest considering these things in earnest considering these things in earnest and I stumbled on this train of thought and I stumbled on this train of thought and I stumbled on this train of thought mostly by noticing that the tasks of a mostly by noticing that the tasks of a mostly by noticing that the tasks of a neuron can be fulfilled by other cells neuron can be fulfilled by other cells neuron can be fulfilled by other cells as well they can send different typed as well they can send different typed as well they can send different typed chemical messages and physical messages chemical messages and physical messages chemical messages and physical messages to their adjacent cells and learn when to their adjacent cells and learn when to their adjacent cells and learn when to do this and why not make this to do this and why not make this to do this and why not make this conditional and become Universal conditional and become Universal conditional and become Universal functional approximators the only thing functional approximators the only thing functional approximators the only thing that they cannot do is Telegraph that they cannot do is Telegraph that they cannot do is Telegraph information over axons very quickly over

information over axons very quickly over information over axons very quickly over long distances right so neurons in this long distances right so neurons in this long distances right so neurons in this perspective are specially adapted kind perspective are specially adapted kind perspective are specially adapted kind of telegraph cell that has evolved so we of telegraph cell that has evolved so we of telegraph cell that has evolved so we can move our muscles very fast but our can move our muscles very fast but our can move our muscles very fast but our body is in principle able to also make body is in principle able to also make body is in principle able to also make models of the world just much much models of the world just much much models of the world just much much slower it's interesting though that at this it's interesting though that at this time at least in human history there time at least in human history there time at least in human history there seems to be a gap between the tools of seems to be a gap between the tools of seems to be a gap between the tools of science science science and the subjective experience that and the subjective experience that and the subjective experience that people report like you're talking about people report like you're talking about people report like you're talking about with telepathy and with telepathy and with telepathy and it seems like it seems like it seems like but not quite there no I think that but not quite there no I think that but not quite there no I think that there is no gap between the tools of there is no gap between the tools of there is no gap between the tools of science and telepathy either it's there science and telepathy either it's there science and telepathy either it's there it's not and it's an empirical question it's not and it's an empirical question it's not and it's an empirical question and if it's there we should be able to and if it's there we should be able to and if it's there we should be able to detect it in a lab so why is there not a detect it in a lab so why is there not a detect it in a lab so why is there not a lot of Michael Evans walking around I I lot of Michael Evans walking around I I lot of Michael Evans walking around I I don't think that Mike 11 is uh don't think that Mike 11 is uh don't think that Mike 11 is uh specifically focused on telepathy very specifically focused on telepathy very specifically focused on telepathy very much he is focused on self-organization much he is focused on self-organization much he is focused on self-organization in living organisms and in brains both in living organisms and in brains both in living organisms and in brains both as a paradigm for development and as a paradigm for development and as a paradigm for development and there's a paradigm for information there's a paradigm for information there's a paradigm for information processing and when you think about how processing and when you think about how processing and when you think about how organization processing works on organization processing works on organization processing works on organisms there is first of all radical organisms there is first of all radical organisms there is first of all radical locality which means everything is locality which means everything is locality which means everything is decided locally from the perspective of decided locally from the perspective of decided locally from the perspective of an individual cell the individual cells an individual cell the individual cells an individual cell the individual cells the agent and the other one is coherence the agent and the other one is coherence the agent and the other one is coherence basically there needs to be some basically there needs to be some basically there needs to be some Criterion that determines how these Criterion that determines how these Criterion that determines how these cells are interacting in such a way that cells are interacting in such a way that cells are interacting in such a way that order emerges on the next level of order emerges on the next level of order emerges on the next level of structure and this principle of

structure and this principle of structure and this principle of coherence of coherence of coherence of imposing constraints that are not imposing constraints that are not imposing constraints that are not validated by the individual parts and validated by the individual parts and validated by the individual parts and lead to coherent structure to basically lead to coherent structure to basically lead to coherent structure to basically Transcendent the agency where you form Transcendent the agency where you form Transcendent the agency where you form an agent on the next level of an agent on the next level of an agent on the next level of organization is crucial in this organization is crucial in this organization is crucial in this perspective it's so cool that radical perspective it's so cool that radical perspective it's so cool that radical locality locality locality leads to the emergence of complexity at leads to the emergence of complexity at leads to the emergence of complexity at the higher layers and I think what Mike the higher layers and I think what Mike the higher layers and I think what Mike Levin is looking at is is nothing that Levin is looking at is is nothing that Levin is looking at is is nothing that is outside of the realm of Science in is outside of the realm of Science in is outside of the realm of Science in any way it's just that he is a any way it's just that he is a any way it's just that he is a paradigmatic thinker who developed his paradigmatic thinker who developed his paradigmatic thinker who developed his own Paradigm and most of the own Paradigm and most of the own Paradigm and most of the neuroscientists are using a different neuroscientists are using a different neuroscientists are using a different Paradigm at this point and this often Paradigm at this point and this often Paradigm at this point and this often happens in science that a field is has a happens in science that a field is has a happens in science that a field is has a few paradigms in which people try to few paradigms in which people try to few paradigms in which people try to understand reality and build Concepts understand reality and build Concepts understand reality and build Concepts and make experiments you're kind of one and make experiments you're kind of one and make experiments you're kind of one of those type of paradigmatic thinkers of those type of paradigmatic thinkers of those type of paradigmatic thinkers actually if we can take a tangent on actually if we can take a tangent on actually if we can take a tangent on that that that once again returning to the biblical once again returning to the biblical once again returning to the biblical verses of your tweets verses of your tweets verses of your tweets uh you're right my public Explorations uh you're right my public Explorations uh you're right my public Explorations are not driven by audience service are not driven by audience service are not driven by audience service but by my lack of ability for but by my lack of ability for but by my lack of ability for discovering understanding or following discovering understanding or following discovering understanding or following the relevant authorities so I have to the relevant authorities so I have to the relevant authorities so I have to develop my own thoughts since I think develop my own thoughts since I think develop my own thoughts since I think autonomously these thoughts cannot autonomously these thoughts cannot autonomously these thoughts cannot always be very good that's you always be very good that's you always be very good that's you apologizing for the chaos of your apologizing for the chaos of your apologizing for the chaos of your thoughts or perhaps not apologizing just thoughts or perhaps not apologizing just thoughts or perhaps not apologizing just identify it but let me ask the question identify it but let me ask the question identify it but let me ask the question uh since we talked about

uh since we talked about uh since we talked about Mike 11 and yourself who I think are Mike 11 and yourself who I think are Mike 11 and yourself who I think are very kind of very kind of very kind of uh radical big independent thinkers uh uh radical big independent thinkers uh uh radical big independent thinkers uh can we reverse engineer your process of can we reverse engineer your process of can we reverse engineer your process of thinking autonomously how do you do it thinking autonomously how do you do it thinking autonomously how do you do it how can humans do it how can humans do it how can humans do it how can you avoid being influenced how can you avoid being influenced how can you avoid being influenced by uh what is it stage by uh what is it stage by uh what is it stage stage three stage three stage three well why would you want to do that it's well why would you want to do that it's well why would you want to do that it's uh you see what is working for you and uh you see what is working for you and uh you see what is working for you and if it's uh not working for you you build if it's uh not working for you you build if it's uh not working for you you build another structure that works better for another structure that works better for another structure that works better for you right and so I found myself in when you right and so I found myself in when you right and so I found myself in when I was thrown into this world in a state I was thrown into this world in a state I was thrown into this world in a state where my intuitions were not working for where my intuitions were not working for where my intuitions were not working for me I was not able to me I was not able to me I was not able to understand how I would be able to understand how I would be able to understand how I would be able to survive on this world and build the survive on this world and build the survive on this world and build the things that I was interested in build things that I was interested in build things that I was interested in build the kinds of relationship I needed to the kinds of relationship I needed to the kinds of relationship I needed to but work on the topics that I wanted to but work on the topics that I wanted to but work on the topics that I wanted to make progress on and so I had to learn make progress on and so I had to learn make progress on and so I had to learn and I for me Twitter is not some tool of and I for me Twitter is not some tool of and I for me Twitter is not some tool of publication it's not something where I publication it's not something where I publication it's not something where I put stuff that I entirely believe to be put stuff that I entirely believe to be put stuff that I entirely believe to be true and provable it's an interactive true and provable it's an interactive true and provable it's an interactive notebook in which I explore notebook in which I explore notebook in which I explore possibilities possibilities possibilities and I found that when I try to and I found that when I try to and I found that when I try to understand how the mind and how understand how the mind and how understand how the mind and how Consciousness works I was quite Consciousness works I was quite Consciousness works I was quite optimistic I thought I need to need to optimistic I thought I need to need to optimistic I thought I need to need to be a big body of knowledge that I can be a big body of knowledge that I can be a big body of knowledge that I can just study and that works and so I just study and that works and so I just study and that works and so I entered studies in philosophy and entered studies in philosophy and entered studies in philosophy and computer science and later psychology

computer science and later psychology computer science and later psychology and a bit of Neuroscience and so on and and a bit of Neuroscience and so on and and a bit of Neuroscience and so on and I was disappointed by what I found I was disappointed by what I found I was disappointed by what I found because I found that the questions of because I found that the questions of because I found that the questions of how Consciousness and so on Works how how Consciousness and so on Works how how Consciousness and so on Works how emotion Works how it's possible that the emotion Works how it's possible that the emotion Works how it's possible that the system can experience anything how system can experience anything how system can experience anything how motivation emerges in the mind when not motivation emerges in the mind when not motivation emerges in the mind when not being answered by the authorities that I being answered by the authorities that I being answered by the authorities that I met and the schools that were around met and the schools that were around met and the schools that were around and instead I found that with individual and instead I found that with individual and instead I found that with individual thinkers that had useful ideas that thinkers that had useful ideas that thinkers that had useful ideas that sometimes were good sometimes were not sometimes were good sometimes were not sometimes were good sometimes were not so good sometimes were adopted by a so good sometimes were adopted by a so good sometimes were adopted by a large group of people sometimes were large group of people sometimes were large group of people sometimes were rejected by large groups of people but rejected by large groups of people but rejected by large groups of people but um for me it was much more interesting um for me it was much more interesting um for me it was much more interesting to see these Minds as individuals and in to see these Minds as individuals and in to see these Minds as individuals and in my perspective thinking is still my perspective thinking is still my perspective thinking is still something that is done not in groups something that is done not in groups something that is done not in groups that has to be done by individuals that has to be done by individuals that has to be done by individuals so that motivated you to become an so that motivated you to become an so that motivated you to become an individual thinker yourself I didn't individual thinker yourself I didn't individual thinker yourself I didn't have a choice okay I didn't find the have a choice okay I didn't find the have a choice okay I didn't find the group that thought in a way where I group that thought in a way where I group that thought in a way where I thought okay thought okay thought okay um I can't just adopt everything that um I can't just adopt everything that um I can't just adopt everything that everybody thinks here and now I everybody thinks here and now I everybody thinks here and now I understand how Consciousness works right understand how Consciousness works right understand how Consciousness works right so or how the mind works or how thinking so or how the mind works or how thinking so or how the mind works or how thinking works or what thinking even is or What works or what thinking even is or What works or what thinking even is or What feelings are and how they're implemented feelings are and how they're implemented feelings are and how they're implemented and so on so to figure all this out I and so on so to figure all this out I and so on so to figure all this out I had to take a lot of ideas from had to take a lot of ideas from had to take a lot of ideas from individuals and then try to put them individuals and then try to put them individuals and then try to put them together in something that works for together in something that works for together in something that works for myself and on one hand I think it helps myself and on one hand I think it helps myself and on one hand I think it helps if you try to go down and find first if you try to go down and find first if you try to go down and find first principles on which you can recreate how principles on which you can recreate how principles on which you can recreate how thinking Works how languages work what thinking Works how languages work what thinking Works how languages work what representation is when the

representation is when the representation is when the representation is necessary representation is necessary representation is necessary how the relationship between a how the relationship between a how the relationship between a representing agent and the world Works representing agent and the world Works representing agent and the world Works in general in general in general but how do you escape the influence once but how do you escape the influence once but how do you escape the influence once again the pressure of the crowd again the pressure of the crowd again the pressure of the crowd whether it's whether it's whether it's you in responding to the the pressure or you in responding to the the pressure or you in responding to the the pressure or you being swept up by the pressure if you being swept up by the pressure if you being swept up by the pressure if you even just look at Twitter the you even just look at Twitter the you even just look at Twitter the opinions of the crowd I don't feel opinions of the crowd I don't feel opinions of the crowd I don't feel pressure from the crowd I'm completely pressure from the crowd I'm completely pressure from the crowd I'm completely immune to that in the same sense I don't immune to that in the same sense I don't immune to that in the same sense I don't have respect for authority I have have respect for authority I have have respect for authority I have respect for what an individual is respect for what an individual is respect for what an individual is accomplishing or have a respect for accomplishing or have a respect for accomplishing or have a respect for mental Firepower or so but it's not that mental Firepower or so but it's not that mental Firepower or so but it's not that I meet somebody and gets like God and I meet somebody and gets like God and I meet somebody and gets like God and unable to speak unable to speak unable to speak um or when a large group of people has a um or when a large group of people has a um or when a large group of people has a certain idea that is different from mine certain idea that is different from mine certain idea that is different from mine I don't necessarily feel intimidated I don't necessarily feel intimidated I don't necessarily feel intimidated which has often been a problem for me in which has often been a problem for me in which has often been a problem for me in my life because I like instincts that my life because I like instincts that my life because I like instincts that other people develop at a very young age other people develop at a very young age other people develop at a very young age and that help with their and that help with their and that help with their self-preservation in a social self-preservation in a social self-preservation in a social environment environment environment so I had to learn a lot of things the so I had to learn a lot of things the so I had to learn a lot of things the hard way hard way hard way yeah yeah yeah so is there a practical advice you can so is there a practical advice you can so is there a practical advice you can give how to think parenting give how to think parenting give how to think parenting paradigmatically how to think paradigmatically how to think paradigmatically how to think independently or you know because you've independently or you know because you've independently or you know because you've kind of said I had no choice kind of said I had no choice kind of said I had no choice but I think but I think but I think to a degree you have a choice because you said you want to be because you said you want to be productive and I think thinking productive and I think thinking productive and I think thinking independent is productive if what you're independent is productive if what you're independent is productive if what you're curious about is understanding the world

curious about is understanding the world curious about is understanding the world especially when the problems are very especially when the problems are very especially when the problems are very kind of new and open so it seems like it seems like this is a active process like we can this is a active process like we can this is a active process like we can choose to do that we can practice it choose to do that we can practice it choose to do that we can practice it well there's a very basic question when well there's a very basic question when well there's a very basic question when you read a theory that you find you read a theory that you find you read a theory that you find convincing or interesting how do you convincing or interesting how do you convincing or interesting how do you know know know but it's very interesting to figure out but it's very interesting to figure out but it's very interesting to figure out what are the sources of that other what are the sources of that other what are the sources of that other person not uh which authority can they person not uh which authority can they person not uh which authority can they refer to that is then taking off the refer to that is then taking off the refer to that is then taking off the burden of being truthful but how did burden of being truthful but how did burden of being truthful but how did this Authority in turn know what is the this Authority in turn know what is the this Authority in turn know what is the epistemic chain to observables what are epistemic chain to observables what are epistemic chain to observables what are the first principles from which the the first principles from which the the first principles from which the whole thing is derived and whole thing is derived and whole thing is derived and when I was young I was not blessed with when I was young I was not blessed with when I was young I was not blessed with a lot of a lot of a lot of um um um people around myself who knew how to people around myself who knew how to people around myself who knew how to make proofs from first principles and I make proofs from first principles and I make proofs from first principles and I think mathematicians do this quite think mathematicians do this quite think mathematicians do this quite naturally but most of the great naturally but most of the great naturally but most of the great mathematicians do not become mathematicians do not become mathematicians do not become mathematicians in school but they tend mathematicians in school but they tend mathematicians in school but they tend to be self-taught to be self-taught to be self-taught because school teachers tend not to be because school teachers tend not to be because school teachers tend not to be mathematicians right they tend not to be mathematicians right they tend not to be mathematicians right they tend not to be people who derive things from first people who derive things from first people who derive things from first principles so when you ask your school principles so when you ask your school principles so when you ask your school teacher why does two plus two equal four teacher why does two plus two equal four teacher why does two plus two equal four um that's your school teacher give you um that's your school teacher give you um that's your school teacher give you the right answer like it's a simple game the right answer like it's a simple game the right answer like it's a simple game and there are many simple games that we and there are many simple games that we and there are many simple games that we could play and could play and could play and um most of those games that you could um most of those games that you could um most of those games that you could just take different roles would not lead just take different roles would not lead just take different roles would not lead to an interesting arithmetic and so it's to an interesting arithmetic and so it's to an interesting arithmetic and so it's just an exploration but you can try what just an exploration but you can try what just an exploration but you can try what happens if you take different axioms and happens if you take different axioms and happens if you take different axioms and here is how you build axioms and derive

here is how you build axioms and derive here is how you build axioms and derive Edition from them and build Edition is Edition from them and build Edition is Edition from them and build Edition is some basically syntactic sugar in it and some basically syntactic sugar in it and some basically syntactic sugar in it and so this I wish that somebody would have so this I wish that somebody would have so this I wish that somebody would have opened me this Vista and explained to me opened me this Vista and explained to me opened me this Vista and explained to me how I can build a language in my own how I can build a language in my own how I can build a language in my own mind and from which I can derive what mind and from which I can derive what mind and from which I can derive what I'm seeing and how I can which I can I'm seeing and how I can which I can I'm seeing and how I can which I can make geometry and Counting and make geometry and Counting and make geometry and Counting and um um um all the number games that we are playing all the number games that we are playing all the number games that we are playing in our life and on the other hand I felt in our life and on the other hand I felt in our life and on the other hand I felt that I learned a lot of this while I was that I learned a lot of this while I was that I learned a lot of this while I was programming as a child when you start programming as a child when you start programming as a child when you start out with a computer like a Commodore 64 out with a computer like a Commodore 64 out with a computer like a Commodore 64 who doesn't which doesn't have a lot of who doesn't which doesn't have a lot of who doesn't which doesn't have a lot of functionality it's relatively easy to functionality it's relatively easy to functionality it's relatively easy to see how a bunch of relatively simple see how a bunch of relatively simple see how a bunch of relatively simple circuits are just basically performing circuits are just basically performing circuits are just basically performing hashes between bit patterns and how you hashes between bit patterns and how you hashes between bit patterns and how you can build the entirety of mathematics can build the entirety of mathematics can build the entirety of mathematics and computation on top of this and all and computation on top of this and all and computation on top of this and all the representational languages that you the representational languages that you the representational languages that you need need need man Commodore 64 could be one of the man Commodore 64 could be one of the man Commodore 64 could be one of the sexiest machines ever built if I still sexiest machines ever built if I still sexiest machines ever built if I still say so myself if you can return say so myself if you can return say so myself if you can return to uh this really interesting idea to uh this really interesting idea to uh this really interesting idea that we started to talk about with that we started to talk about with that we started to talk about with pansychism sure sure and uh the complex resonated Paradigm and uh the complex resonated Paradigm and uh the complex resonated Paradigm and the verses of your tweets and the verses of your tweets and the verses of your tweets you're right instead of treating eyes you're right instead of treating eyes you're right instead of treating eyes ears and skin a separate sensory systems ears and skin a separate sensory systems ears and skin a separate sensory systems with fundamentally different modalities with fundamentally different modalities with fundamentally different modalities we might understand them as overlapping we might understand them as overlapping we might understand them as overlapping aspects of the same universe coupled at

aspects of the same universe coupled at aspects of the same universe coupled at the same Temple resolution and almost the same Temple resolution and almost the same Temple resolution and almost Inseparable from a single share resonant Inseparable from a single share resonant Inseparable from a single share resonant model instead of treating mental model instead of treating mental model instead of treating mental representations as fully isolated representations as fully isolated representations as fully isolated between Minds The representations of between Minds The representations of between Minds The representations of physically adjacent Observers might physically adjacent Observers might physically adjacent Observers might directly interact and produce causal directly interact and produce causal directly interact and produce causal effects through the coordination of the effects through the coordination of the effects through the coordination of the perception and behavior of world perception and behavior of world perception and behavior of world modeling Observers modeling Observers modeling Observers so the modalities the distinction so the modalities the distinction so the modalities the distinction between modalities let's throw that away between modalities let's throw that away between modalities let's throw that away the distinction between the individuals the distinction between the individuals the distinction between the individuals let's throw that away let's throw that away let's throw that away so what does this interaction so what does this interaction so what does this interaction representations look like when you think about how you represent when you think about how you represent the interaction of us in this room yeah the interaction of us in this room yeah the interaction of us in this room yeah at some level you can the modalities are at some level you can the modalities are at some level you can the modalities are quite distinct they're not completely quite distinct they're not completely quite distinct they're not completely distinct but you can see this is Vision distinct but you can see this is Vision distinct but you can see this is Vision but you can close your eyes and then you but you can close your eyes and then you but you can close your eyes and then you don't see a lot anymore but you still don't see a lot anymore but you still don't see a lot anymore but you still imagine how my mouth is moving when you imagine how my mouth is moving when you imagine how my mouth is moving when you hear something and you know that it's hear something and you know that it's hear something and you know that it's very close to uh the sound that you can very close to uh the sound that you can very close to uh the sound that you can just open your eyes and you get back just open your eyes and you get back just open your eyes and you get back into the street merge space and we also into the street merge space and we also into the street merge space and we also have these experiments where we notice have these experiments where we notice have these experiments where we notice that the vein which my lips are moving that the vein which my lips are moving that the vein which my lips are moving are affecting how you hear the sound and are affecting how you hear the sound and are affecting how you hear the sound and also vice versa the sounds that you're also vice versa the sounds that you're also vice versa the sounds that you're hearing have an influence on how you hearing have an influence on how you hearing have an influence on how you interpret some of the visual features interpret some of the visual features interpret some of the visual features and so this modalities are not separate and so this modalities are not separate and so this modalities are not separate in your mind they do are merged at some in your mind they do are merged at some in your mind they do are merged at some fundamental level where you are fundamental level where you are fundamental level where you are interpreting the entire scene that you interpreting the entire scene that you interpreting the entire scene that you are in and your own interactions in the

are in and your own interactions in the are in and your own interactions in the scene also not completely separate from scene also not completely separate from scene also not completely separate from the interactions of the other individual the interactions of the other individual the interactions of the other individual in the scene but there is some resonance in the scene but there is some resonance in the scene but there is some resonance that is going on where we also have a that is going on where we also have a that is going on where we also have a degree of shared mental representations degree of shared mental representations degree of shared mental representations and shared empathy due to being in the and shared empathy due to being in the and shared empathy due to being in the same space and having Vibes between each same space and having Vibes between each same space and having Vibes between each other Vibes so the question though is other Vibes so the question though is other Vibes so the question though is How Deeply interbined is this How Deeply interbined is this How Deeply interbined is this multi-modality multi-agent system multi-modality multi-agent system multi-modality multi-agent system like how I mean this is going to the like how I mean this is going to the like how I mean this is going to the telepathy question without the telepathy question without the telepathy question without the meaning of the word telepathy meaning of the word telepathy meaning of the word telepathy it's like how it's like how it's like how like what's going on here in this room like what's going on here in this room like what's going on here in this room right now so it's called epicity would right now so it's called epicity would right now so it's called epicity would work how could it work yeah right so work how could it work yeah right so work how could it work yeah right so imagine that imagine that imagine that um all the cells in your body are um all the cells in your body are um all the cells in your body are sending signals in a similar way as sending signals in a similar way as sending signals in a similar way as neurons are doing right just by touching neurons are doing right just by touching neurons are doing right just by touching the other cells and sending chemicals to the other cells and sending chemicals to the other cells and sending chemicals to them the other cells interpreting them them the other cells interpreting them them the other cells interpreting them learning how to react to them and they learning how to react to them and they learning how to react to them and they learn how to approximate functions in learn how to approximate functions in learn how to approximate functions in this way and compute behavior for the this way and compute behavior for the this way and compute behavior for the organisms and this is something that is organisms and this is something that is organisms and this is something that is open to plants as well and so plants open to plants as well and so plants open to plants as well and so plants probably have software running on them probably have software running on them probably have software running on them that is controlling how the plant is that is controlling how the plant is that is controlling how the plant is working in a similar way as you have a working in a similar way as you have a working in a similar way as you have a mind that is controlling how you are mind that is controlling how you are mind that is controlling how you are behaving in the world and behaving in the world and behaving in the world and um this Spirit of plants which is um this Spirit of plants which is um this Spirit of plants which is something that has been very well something that has been very well something that has been very well described by our ancestors and they described by our ancestors and they described by our ancestors and they found this quite normal but uh for some found this quite normal but uh for some found this quite normal but uh for some reason since the enlightenment we are reason since the enlightenment we are reason since the enlightenment we are treating this notion that there are treating this notion that there are treating this notion that there are spirits in nature and there are plenty

spirits in nature and there are plenty spirits in nature and there are plenty of spirits as a Superstition and I think of spirits as a Superstition and I think of spirits as a Superstition and I think we probably have to ReDiscover that that we probably have to ReDiscover that that we probably have to ReDiscover that that plants have software running on them and plants have software running on them and plants have software running on them and we already did right you notice that we already did right you notice that we already did right you notice that there is a control system in the plant there is a control system in the plant there is a control system in the plant that connects every part of the plant to that connects every part of the plant to that connects every part of the plant to every other part of the plant and every other part of the plant and every other part of the plant and produces coherent behavior in the plant produces coherent behavior in the plant produces coherent behavior in the plant that is of course much much slower than that is of course much much slower than that is of course much much slower than the coherent behavior in an animal like the coherent behavior in an animal like the coherent behavior in an animal like us that has a nervous system that where us that has a nervous system that where us that has a nervous system that where everything is synchronized much much everything is synchronized much much everything is synchronized much much faster by the neurons faster by the neurons faster by the neurons but what you also notice is that if a but what you also notice is that if a but what you also notice is that if a plant is sitting next to another plant plant is sitting next to another plant plant is sitting next to another plant like you have a very old tree and this like you have a very old tree and this like you have a very old tree and this tree is building some kind of tree is building some kind of tree is building some kind of information Highway along its cells so information Highway along its cells so information Highway along its cells so it can send information from its leaves it can send information from its leaves it can send information from its leaves to its roots and from some part of the to its roots and from some part of the to its roots and from some part of the root to another part of the woods and root to another part of the woods and root to another part of the woods and there is the fungus living next to the there is the fungus living next to the there is the fungus living next to the tree the fungus can probably piggyback tree the fungus can probably piggyback tree the fungus can probably piggyback on the communication between the cells on the communication between the cells on the communication between the cells of the tree and send its own signals to of the tree and send its own signals to of the tree and send its own signals to the tree and vice versa the tree might the tree and vice versa the tree might the tree and vice versa the tree might be able to send informations of the be able to send informations of the be able to send informations of the fungus because after all how would they fungus because after all how would they fungus because after all how would they build a viable firewall if that other build a viable firewall if that other build a viable firewall if that other organism is sitting next to them all the organism is sitting next to them all the organism is sitting next to them all the time and it's never moving away and so time and it's never moving away and so time and it's never moving away and so they will have to get along and over a they will have to get along and over a they will have to get along and over a long enough time frame the networks of long enough time frame the networks of long enough time frame the networks of roots in the forest and all the plant roots in the forest and all the plant roots in the forest and all the plant other plants that are there and the other plants that are there and the other plants that are there and the fungi that are there might be forming fungi that are there might be forming fungi that are there might be forming something like a biological internet something like a biological internet something like a biological internet but the the question there is do they but the the question there is do they but the the question there is do they have to be touching is biology at a have to be touching is biology at a have to be touching is biology at a distance possible distance possible distance possible of course you can use any kind of of course you can use any kind of of course you can use any kind of physical signal you can use sounds you

physical signal you can use sounds you physical signal you can use sounds you can use electromagnetic waves that are can use electromagnetic waves that are can use electromagnetic waves that are integrated over many cells that's integrated over many cells that's integrated over many cells that's conceivable that across distances there conceivable that across distances there conceivable that across distances there are many kinds of information Pathways are many kinds of information Pathways are many kinds of information Pathways but also our planetary surface is pretty but also our planetary surface is pretty but also our planetary surface is pretty full of organisms full of cells so full of organisms full of cells so full of organisms full of cells so everything is touching everything else everything is touching everything else everything is touching everything else yeah and it's been doing this for yeah and it's been doing this for yeah and it's been doing this for um many millions and even billions of um many millions and even billions of um many millions and even billions of years so there was enough time for years so there was enough time for years so there was enough time for information processing networks to form information processing networks to form information processing networks to form and if you think about how a mind is and if you think about how a mind is and if you think about how a mind is self-organizing it basically it needs to self-organizing it basically it needs to self-organizing it basically it needs to in some sense reward these cells for in some sense reward these cells for in some sense reward these cells for computing the mind for building computing the mind for building computing the mind for building the necessary Dynamics between the cells the necessary Dynamics between the cells the necessary Dynamics between the cells that allow the mind to stabilize itself that allow the mind to stabilize itself that allow the mind to stabilize itself and remain on there but if you look at and remain on there but if you look at and remain on there but if you look at these spirits of plants that are growing these spirits of plants that are growing these spirits of plants that are growing very close to each other in the forwards very close to each other in the forwards very close to each other in the forwards it might be almost growing into each it might be almost growing into each it might be almost growing into each other these Spirits might be able even other these Spirits might be able even other these Spirits might be able even to move to some degree not to become to move to some degree not to become to move to some degree not to become some number dislocated and shift around some number dislocated and shift around some number dislocated and shift around in in that ecosystem right and so if you in in that ecosystem right and so if you in in that ecosystem right and so if you think about what the mind is it's a think about what the mind is it's a think about what the mind is it's a bunch of activation waves that form bunch of activation waves that form bunch of activation waves that form coherent patterns and process coherent patterns and process coherent patterns and process information in in a way that are information in in a way that are information in in a way that are colonizing an environment well enough to colonizing an environment well enough to colonizing an environment well enough to allow the continuous sustenance of the allow the continuous sustenance of the allow the continuous sustenance of the Mind The Continuous stability and Mind The Continuous stability and Mind The Continuous stability and self-drabitization of the Mind self-drabitization of the Mind self-drabitization of the Mind um then it's conceivable that we can um then it's conceivable that we can um then it's conceivable that we can link into this biological internet not link into this biological internet not link into this biological internet not necessarily at the speed of our nervous necessarily at the speed of our nervous necessarily at the speed of our nervous system but maybe at the speed of our

system but maybe at the speed of our system but maybe at the speed of our body and make some kind of subconscious body and make some kind of subconscious body and make some kind of subconscious connection to the world where we use our connection to the world where we use our connection to the world where we use our body as an antenna into biological body as an antenna into biological body as an antenna into biological information processing now now these information processing now now these information processing now now these ideas are completely speculative I don't ideas are completely speculative I don't ideas are completely speculative I don't know if any of that is true but if that know if any of that is true but if that know if any of that is true but if that was true and if you want to explain was true and if you want to explain was true and if you want to explain telepathy I think it's much more likely telepathy I think it's much more likely telepathy I think it's much more likely that such a data telepathy could be that such a data telepathy could be that such a data telepathy could be explained using such mechanisms rather explained using such mechanisms rather explained using such mechanisms rather than an discovered Quantum processes than an discovered Quantum processes than an discovered Quantum processes that would break the standard model of that would break the standard model of that would break the standard model of physics physics physics could they be undiscovered processes could they be undiscovered processes could they be undiscovered processes that don't break yeah so if you think that don't break yeah so if you think that don't break yeah so if you think about about about um something like an internet in the um something like an internet in the um something like an internet in the forest that is something that is forest that is something that is forest that is something that is borderline discovered there are borderline discovered there are borderline discovered there are basically a lot of scientists who point basically a lot of scientists who point basically a lot of scientists who point out that they do observe that plans are out that they do observe that plans are out that they do observe that plans are communicating the forwards or wood communicating the forwards or wood communicating the forwards or wood networks and send information for networks and send information for networks and send information for instance warn each other about new pests instance warn each other about new pests instance warn each other about new pests entering the forest and and things are entering the forest and and things are entering the forest and and things are happening like this so basically there happening like this so basically there happening like this so basically there is communication between plants and is communication between plants and is communication between plants and fungi that has been observed well it's fungi that has been observed well it's fungi that has been observed well it's been observed but we haven't plugged been observed but we haven't plugged been observed but we haven't plugged into it so it's like if You observe into it so it's like if You observe into it so it's like if You observe humans they seem to be communicating humans they seem to be communicating humans they seem to be communicating with a smartphone thing but you don't with a smartphone thing but you don't with a smartphone thing but you don't understand how smartphone works and how understand how smartphone works and how understand how smartphone works and how the the mechanism of the internet works the the mechanism of the internet works the the mechanism of the internet works but we're like maybe it's possible to but we're like maybe it's possible to but we're like maybe it's possible to really understand the the full richness really understand the the full richness really understand the the full richness of the biological internet that connects of the biological internet that connects of the biological internet that connects us an interesting question is whether us an interesting question is whether us an interesting question is whether the communication and the Organization the communication and the Organization the communication and the Organization principles of biological information principles of biological information principles of biological information processing are as complex located as the processing are as complex located as the processing are as complex located as the technology that we've built

technology that we've built technology that we've built they set out on very different they set out on very different they set out on very different principles right they simultaneously principles right they simultaneously principles right they simultaneously works very differently in biological works very differently in biological works very differently in biological systems and the entire thing needs to be systems and the entire thing needs to be systems and the entire thing needs to be stochastic and instead of being fully stochastic and instead of being fully stochastic and instead of being fully deterministic or almost fully deterministic or almost fully deterministic or almost fully deterministic as our literal computers deterministic as our literal computers deterministic as our literal computers are so there is a different base are so there is a different base are so there is a different base protocol layer that would emerge over protocol layer that would emerge over protocol layer that would emerge over the biological structure if such a thing the biological structure if such a thing the biological structure if such a thing would be happening and again I'm not would be happening and again I'm not would be happening and again I'm not saying here that telepathy works and not saying here that telepathy works and not saying here that telepathy works and not saying that that this is not who but saying that that this is not who but saying that that this is not who but what I'm saying is I'm I think I'm open what I'm saying is I'm I think I'm open what I'm saying is I'm I think I'm open to a possibility that we see that a few to a possibility that we see that a few to a possibility that we see that a few bits can be traveling long distance bits can be traveling long distance bits can be traveling long distance between organisms using biological between organisms using biological between organisms using biological information processing in ways that we information processing in ways that we information processing in ways that we are not completely aware of right now are not completely aware of right now are not completely aware of right now and that are more similar to many of the and that are more similar to many of the and that are more similar to many of the stories that were completely normal for stories that were completely normal for stories that were completely normal for our ancestors our ancestors our ancestors well this kind of interacting interlined well this kind of interacting interlined well this kind of interacting interlined representations takes us to the the big representations takes us to the the big representations takes us to the the big ending of your Tweet series you write ending of your Tweet series you write ending of your Tweet series you write quote I wonder if self-improving AGI quote I wonder if self-improving AGI quote I wonder if self-improving AGI might end up saturating physical might end up saturating physical might end up saturating physical environments with intelligence environments with intelligence environments with intelligence to such a degree that isolation of to such a degree that isolation of to such a degree that isolation of individual mental States becomes almost individual mental States becomes almost individual mental States becomes almost impossible impossible impossible and the representations of all complex and the representations of all complex and the representations of all complex self-organizing agents merge permanently self-organizing agents merge permanently self-organizing agents merge permanently with each other with each other with each other so that's a really interesting idea this so that's a really interesting idea this so that's a really interesting idea this biological Network

biological Network biological Network life Network life Network life Network gets so dense gets so dense gets so dense that it might as well be seen as one that it might as well be seen as one that it might as well be seen as one that's an interesting uh what do you that's an interesting uh what do you that's an interesting uh what do you think that looks like what do you think think that looks like what do you think think that looks like what do you think that saturation looks like what does it that saturation looks like what does it that saturation looks like what does it feel like I think it's a possibility feel like I think it's a possibility feel like I think it's a possibility it's just a vague possibility and I I it's just a vague possibility and I I it's just a vague possibility and I I like to explain but what is looks like I like to explain but what is looks like I like to explain but what is looks like I think that the end game of AGI is think that the end game of AGI is think that the end game of AGI is substrate agnostic that means that egi substrate agnostic that means that egi substrate agnostic that means that egi ultimately if it is being built is going ultimately if it is being built is going ultimately if it is being built is going to be smart enough to understand how AGI to be smart enough to understand how AGI to be smart enough to understand how AGI works this means it's not going to be works this means it's not going to be works this means it's not going to be better than people at egi research and better than people at egi research and better than people at egi research and can take over in building the Next can take over in building the Next can take over in building the Next Generation but it fully understands how Generation but it fully understands how Generation but it fully understands how it works and how it's being implemented it works and how it's being implemented it works and how it's being implemented and also of course understands how and also of course understands how and also of course understands how computation Works in nature how to build computation Works in nature how to build computation Works in nature how to build new feedback loops that you can turn new feedback loops that you can turn new feedback loops that you can turn into your own circuits and this means into your own circuits and this means into your own circuits and this means that the AGI is likely to virtualize that the AGI is likely to virtualize that the AGI is likely to virtualize itself into any environment that can itself into any environment that can itself into any environment that can compute so it's not breaking free from compute so it's not breaking free from compute so it's not breaking free from the Silicon substrate and is going to the Silicon substrate and is going to the Silicon substrate and is going to move into the ecosystems into our bodies move into the ecosystems into our bodies move into the ecosystems into our bodies our brains and is going to merge with our brains and is going to merge with our brains and is going to merge with all the agency that it finds there yeah all the agency that it finds there yeah all the agency that it finds there yeah so it's conceivable that you end up with so it's conceivable that you end up with so it's conceivable that you end up with a completely integrated information a completely integrated information a completely integrated information processing across all Computing systems processing across all Computing systems processing across all Computing systems including biological computational nurse including biological computational nurse including biological computational nurse you that we end up triggering some new you that we end up triggering some new you that we end up triggering some new step and evolution where basically some step and evolution where basically some step and evolution where basically some Gaia is being built over the entirety of Gaia is being built over the entirety of Gaia is being built over the entirety of All Digital and biological computation All Digital and biological computation All Digital and biological computation and if this happens then basically uh

and if this happens then basically uh and if this happens then basically uh everywhere around us you will have everywhere around us you will have everywhere around us you will have agents that are connected and that are agents that are connected and that are agents that are connected and that are representing and building models of the representing and building models of the representing and building models of the world and their representations will world and their representations will world and their representations will physically interact they will vibe with physically interact they will vibe with physically interact they will vibe with each other and if you find yourself into each other and if you find yourself into each other and if you find yourself into an environment an environment that is an environment an environment that is an environment an environment that is saturated with modeling compute where saturated with modeling compute where saturated with modeling compute where basically you uh almost every grain of basically you uh almost every grain of basically you uh almost every grain of sand could be part of computation that sand could be part of computation that sand could be part of computation that is at some point being started by the AI is at some point being started by the AI is at some point being started by the AI um you could find yourself in a um you could find yourself in a um you could find yourself in a situation where you cannot escape the situation where you cannot escape the situation where you cannot escape the shared representation anymore and they shared representation anymore and they shared representation anymore and they will indeed notice that everything in will indeed notice that everything in will indeed notice that everything in the world has one shared resonant model the world has one shared resonant model the world has one shared resonant model of everything that's happening on the of everything that's happening on the of everything that's happening on the planet and you notice which part you are planet and you notice which part you are planet and you notice which part you are in this thing and you become part of a in this thing and you become part of a in this thing and you become part of a very larger almost holographic mind in very larger almost holographic mind in very larger almost holographic mind in which all the parts are observing each which all the parts are observing each which all the parts are observing each other and formal coherent role so you other and formal coherent role so you other and formal coherent role so you lose the ability to notice to notice lose the ability to notice to notice lose the ability to notice to notice yourself as a distinct entity now I yourself as a distinct entity now I yourself as a distinct entity now I think that when you are conscious in think that when you are conscious in think that when you are conscious in your own mind you notice yourself as a your own mind you notice yourself as a your own mind you notice yourself as a distinct entity you notice yourself as a distinct entity you notice yourself as a distinct entity you notice yourself as a self-reflexive Observer and I suspect self-reflexive Observer and I suspect self-reflexive Observer and I suspect that we become conscious at the that we become conscious at the that we become conscious at the beginning of our mental development not beginning of our mental development not beginning of our mental development not at some very high level Consciousness at some very high level Consciousness at some very high level Consciousness seems to be part of a training mechanism seems to be part of a training mechanism seems to be part of a training mechanism that biological nervous systems have to that biological nervous systems have to that biological nervous systems have to discover to become trainable because you discover to become trainable because you discover to become trainable because you cannot take a nervous system like ours cannot take a nervous system like ours cannot take a nervous system like ours and do stochastic related to centers and do stochastic related to centers and do stochastic related to centers back propagation over 100 layers right back propagation over 100 layers right back propagation over 100 layers right this would not be stable on biological

this would not be stable on biological this would not be stable on biological neurons and so instead we start with neurons and so instead we start with neurons and so instead we start with some colonizing principle in which a some colonizing principle in which a some colonizing principle in which a part of the mental representations part of the mental representations part of the mental representations form a notion of being a self-reflexive form a notion of being a self-reflexive form a notion of being a self-reflexive absorber that is imposing coherence on absorber that is imposing coherence on absorber that is imposing coherence on its environment and the spreads until its environment and the spreads until its environment and the spreads until the boundary of your mind the boundary of your mind the boundary of your mind and if that boundary is no longer and if that boundary is no longer and if that boundary is no longer clear-cut because AI is jumping across clear-cut because AI is jumping across clear-cut because AI is jumping across substrates and it would be interesting substrates and it would be interesting substrates and it would be interesting to see what the global mind would look to see what the global mind would look to see what the global mind would look like that is basically producing a like that is basically producing a like that is basically producing a globally coherent language of thought globally coherent language of thought globally coherent language of thought and is representing everything from all and is representing everything from all and is representing everything from all the possible Vantage points that's an interesting world the that's an interesting world the intuition that this thing go out of is a intuition that this thing go out of is a intuition that this thing go out of is a particular mental state and it's a state particular mental state and it's a state particular mental state and it's a state that you find sometimes in literature that you find sometimes in literature that you find sometimes in literature for instance Neil Gaiman describes it in for instance Neil Gaiman describes it in for instance Neil Gaiman describes it in the ocean at the end of the lane and the ocean at the end of the lane and the ocean at the end of the lane and it's this idea that or this experience it's this idea that or this experience it's this idea that or this experience that there is this date in which you that there is this date in which you that there is this date in which you feel that you know everything that can feel that you know everything that can feel that you know everything that can be known and that and your normal human be known and that and your normal human be known and that and your normal human mind you've only forgotten you've mind you've only forgotten you've mind you've only forgotten you've forgotten that you are the entire forgotten that you are the entire forgotten that you are the entire universe and some people describe this universe and some people describe this universe and some people describe this after they've taken extremely large after they've taken extremely large after they've taken extremely large amount of mushrooms or had a big amount of mushrooms or had a big amount of mushrooms or had a big spiritual experience uh as a hippie in spiritual experience uh as a hippie in spiritual experience uh as a hippie in their 20s and they notice basically that their 20s and they notice basically that their 20s and they notice basically that they are in everything and their their they are in everything and their their they are in everything and their their body is only one part of the universe body is only one part of the universe body is only one part of the universe and nothing ends at their body and uh and nothing ends at their body and uh and nothing ends at their body and uh actually everything is observing and actually everything is observing and actually everything is observing and they are part of this big Observer and they are part of this big Observer and they are part of this big Observer and the big Observer is focused on as one

the big Observer is focused on as one the big Observer is focused on as one local point in their body and their local point in their body and their local point in their body and their personality and so on but we can personality and so on but we can personality and so on but we can basically have this Oceanic state in basically have this Oceanic state in basically have this Oceanic state in which we Have No Boundaries and are one which we Have No Boundaries and are one which we Have No Boundaries and are one with everything and a lot of meditators with everything and a lot of meditators with everything and a lot of meditators call this the non-dual state because you call this the non-dual state because you call this the non-dual state because you no longer have the separation between no longer have the separation between no longer have the separation between surf and world and as I said you can surf and world and as I said you can surf and world and as I said you can explain the state relatively simply explain the state relatively simply explain the state relatively simply without uh pan psychism or anything else without uh pan psychism or anything else without uh pan psychism or anything else but just by breaking down the but just by breaking down the but just by breaking down the constructed boundary between self and constructed boundary between self and constructed boundary between self and world and our own mind but if you world and our own mind but if you world and our own mind but if you combine this with the notion that the combine this with the notion that the combine this with the notion that the systems are physically interacting to systems are physically interacting to systems are physically interacting to the point where their representations the point where their representations the point where their representations are merging and interacting with each are merging and interacting with each are merging and interacting with each other you would literally Implement other you would literally Implement other you would literally Implement something like this but it would still something like this but it would still something like this but it would still be a representational state but you be a representational state but you be a representational state but you would not be one with physics itself it would not be one with physics itself it would not be one with physics itself it would still be coarse grained would would still be coarse grained would would still be coarse grained would still be much slower than physics itself still be much slower than physics itself still be much slower than physics itself but but it would be a representation in but but it would be a representation in but but it would be a representation in which you become aware that you're part which you become aware that you're part which you become aware that you're part of some kind of Global Information of some kind of Global Information of some kind of Global Information processing system like thought and the processing system like thought and the processing system like thought and the global mind and a conscious thought that global mind and a conscious thought that global mind and a conscious thought that that coexisting with many other self that coexisting with many other self that coexisting with many other self reflexive thoughts reflexive thoughts reflexive thoughts just I would love to observe that from a just I would love to observe that from a just I would love to observe that from a video game design perspective how that video game design perspective how that video game design perspective how that game looks game looks game looks maybe you will after we build AGI and it maybe you will after we build AGI and it maybe you will after we build AGI and it takes over but would you be able to step takes over but would you be able to step takes over but would you be able to step away step out at the whole thing just away step out at the whole thing just away step out at the whole thing just kind of watch kind of watch kind of watch you know the way we can now you know the way we can now you know the way we can now sometimes when I'm in a crowded party or sometimes when I'm in a crowded party or sometimes when I'm in a crowded party or something like this you step back and something like this you step back and something like this you step back and you realize you realize you realize all the different costumes all the all the different costumes all the all the different costumes all the different interactions all the different different interactions all the different different interactions all the different computation

computation computation that all the individual people are once that all the individual people are once that all the individual people are once distinct from each other and at one's distinct from each other and at one's distinct from each other and at one's all the same what is this already what all the same what is this already what all the same what is this already what we do right we can have thoughts that we do right we can have thoughts that we do right we can have thoughts that are integrative and we have kind of are integrative and we have kind of are integrative and we have kind of thoughts that are highly dissociated thoughts that are highly dissociated thoughts that are highly dissociated from everything else and experience from everything else and experience from everything else and experience themselves as separate yeah but you want themselves as separate yeah but you want themselves as separate yeah but you want to allow yourself to have those thoughts to allow yourself to have those thoughts to allow yourself to have those thoughts sometimes you kind of resist it I think sometimes you kind of resist it I think sometimes you kind of resist it I think that uh it's not normative what is more that uh it's not normative what is more that uh it's not normative what is more descriptive I want to understand the descriptive I want to understand the descriptive I want to understand the space of states that we can be in and space of states that we can be in and space of states that we can be in and that people are reporting and make sense that people are reporting and make sense that people are reporting and make sense of them it's not that I believe that of them it's not that I believe that of them it's not that I believe that it's your job in life to get to a it's your job in life to get to a it's your job in life to get to a particular kind of state and then you particular kind of state and then you particular kind of state and then you get a high score get a high score get a high score or maybe you do I I think you're really or maybe you do I I think you're really or maybe you do I I think you're really against this high scoring thing I kind against this high scoring thing I kind against this high scoring thing I kind of like yeah you're probably very of like yeah you're probably very of like yeah you're probably very competitive and I'm not no not competitive and I'm not no not competitive and I'm not no not competitive like role-playing games like competitive like role-playing games like competitive like role-playing games like Skyrim it's not competitive there's a Skyrim it's not competitive there's a Skyrim it's not competitive there's a there's a nice thing there's a nice there's a nice thing there's a nice there's a nice thing there's a nice feeling where your experience points go feeling where your experience points go feeling where your experience points go up you're not competing against anybody up you're not competing against anybody up you're not competing against anybody but it's the world saying you're on the but it's the world saying you're on the but it's the world saying you're on the right track here's a point that's the right track here's a point that's the right track here's a point that's the game thing it's the game economy and I game thing it's the game economy and I game thing it's the game economy and I found when I was playing games and was found when I was playing games and was found when I was playing games and was getting addicted to these systems then I getting addicted to these systems then I getting addicted to these systems then I would get into the game and hack it so I would get into the game and hack it so I would get into the game and hack it so I get control over the scoring system and get control over the scoring system and get control over the scoring system and would no longer be subject to it so would no longer be subject to it so would no longer be subject to it so you're not no longer playing your trying you're not no longer playing your trying you're not no longer playing your trying to hack it I don't want to be addicted to hack it I don't want to be addicted to hack it I don't want to be addicted to anything I want to be in charge I to anything I want to be in charge I to anything I want to be in charge I want to have agency over what I do want to have agency over what I do want to have agency over what I do addiction is the loss of control for you addiction is the loss of control for you addiction is the loss of control for you yes addiction means that you're doing

yes addiction means that you're doing yes addiction means that you're doing something compulsively something compulsively something compulsively and the opposite of free will is not and the opposite of free will is not and the opposite of free will is not determinism it's compulsion you don't want to lose yourself in in you don't want to lose yourself in in the addiction to something nice the addiction to something nice the addiction to something nice addiction to love to the addiction to love to the addiction to love to the to the pleasant feelings we humans to the pleasant feelings we humans to the pleasant feelings we humans experience no I find this uh gets old experience no I find this uh gets old experience no I find this uh gets old right that's you I don't want to have right that's you I don't want to have right that's you I don't want to have the best possible emotions I want to the best possible emotions I want to the best possible emotions I want to have the most appropriate emotions I have the most appropriate emotions I have the most appropriate emotions I don't want to have the best possible don't want to have the best possible don't want to have the best possible experience I want to have an adequate experience I want to have an adequate experience I want to have an adequate experience that is serving my goals the experience that is serving my goals the experience that is serving my goals the stuff that I find meaningful in this stuff that I find meaningful in this stuff that I find meaningful in this world world world from the biggest questions of from the biggest questions of from the biggest questions of consciousness consciousness consciousness let's explore the pragmatic the let's explore the pragmatic the let's explore the pragmatic the projections of those big Ideas into our projections of those big Ideas into our projections of those big Ideas into our current world current world current world uh what do you think about llms the uh what do you think about llms the uh what do you think about llms the recent rapid development of large recent rapid development of large recent rapid development of large language models language models language models of the AI world of the AI world of the AI world of generative AI of generative AI of generative AI how much of the hype is deserved and how how much of the hype is deserved and how how much of the hype is deserved and how much is not much is not much is not and people should definitely follow your and people should definitely follow your and people should definitely follow your Twitter because you explore these Twitter because you explore these Twitter because you explore these questions in the in a beautiful profound questions in the in a beautiful profound questions in the in a beautiful profound and hilarious way at times no don't and hilarious way at times no don't and hilarious way at times no don't follow my Twitter I already have too follow my Twitter I already have too follow my Twitter I already have too many followers yeah at some point it's many followers yeah at some point it's many followers yeah at some point it's going to be unpleasant I noticed that a going to be unpleasant I noticed that a going to be unpleasant I noticed that a lot of people feel that it's totally lot of people feel that it's totally lot of people feel that it's totally okay to punch up and uh okay to punch up and uh okay to punch up and uh it's a very weird notion that you feel it's a very weird notion that you feel it's a very weird notion that you feel that you haven't changed but your that you haven't changed but your that you haven't changed but your account has grown and suddenly you have

account has grown and suddenly you have account has grown and suddenly you have a lot of people who casually abuse you a lot of people who casually abuse you a lot of people who casually abuse you and I don't like that that I have to and I don't like that that I have to and I don't like that that I have to block more than before and it don't lack block more than before and it don't lack block more than before and it don't lack this overall Vibe shift and right now this overall Vibe shift and right now this overall Vibe shift and right now it's still somewhat okay so pretty much it's still somewhat okay so pretty much it's still somewhat okay so pretty much okay so I can go to a place where people okay so I can go to a place where people okay so I can go to a place where people work on stuff that I'm interested in and work on stuff that I'm interested in and work on stuff that I'm interested in and there's a good chance that a few people there's a good chance that a few people there's a good chance that a few people in the room know me so there's no in the room know me so there's no in the room know me so there's no awkwardness awkwardness awkwardness but when I get to a point where random but when I get to a point where random but when I get to a point where random strangers feel that they have to have an strangers feel that they have to have an strangers feel that they have to have an opinion about me one way or the other I opinion about me one way or the other I opinion about me one way or the other I don't think I would like that and random don't think I would like that and random don't think I would like that and random strangers because of you kind of out in strangers because of you kind of out in strangers because of you kind of out in their mind elevated position yes so their mind elevated position yes so their mind elevated position yes so basically whenever you uh are in any way basically whenever you uh are in any way basically whenever you uh are in any way prominent or some kind of celebrity uh prominent or some kind of celebrity uh prominent or some kind of celebrity uh random strangers will have to have an random strangers will have to have an random strangers will have to have an opinion about you opinion about you opinion about you yeah and they kind of forget that you're yeah and they kind of forget that you're yeah and they kind of forget that you're human too I mean you notice this thing human too I mean you notice this thing human too I mean you notice this thing yourself that the more popular you get yourself that the more popular you get yourself that the more popular you get the higher the pressure becomes the the the higher the pressure becomes the the the higher the pressure becomes the the more winds are blowing in your direction more winds are blowing in your direction more winds are blowing in your direction from all sides and from all sides and from all sides and um it's stressful right and it does have um it's stressful right and it does have um it's stressful right and it does have a little bit of upside but it also has a a little bit of upside but it also has a a little bit of upside but it also has a lot of downside I think it has a lot of lot of downside I think it has a lot of lot of downside I think it has a lot of upside upside upside at least for me currently at least at least for me currently at least at least for me currently at least perhaps because of the podcast perhaps because of the podcast perhaps because of the podcast because most people are really good and because most people are really good and because most people are really good and people come up to me and they have love people come up to me and they have love people come up to me and they have love in their eyes and over a stretch of like in their eyes and over a stretch of like in their eyes and over a stretch of like 30 seconds you can hug it out and you 30 seconds you can hug it out and you 30 seconds you can hug it out and you can just exchange a few words and you can just exchange a few words and you can just exchange a few words and you you reinvigorate your love for Humanity you reinvigorate your love for Humanity you reinvigorate your love for Humanity so that's an upside yes for a loner I'm

so that's an upside yes for a loner I'm so that's an upside yes for a loner I'm alone because because otherwise you have alone because because otherwise you have alone because because otherwise you have to do a lot of work to find such humans to do a lot of work to find such humans to do a lot of work to find such humans and here you're like thrust into the and here you're like thrust into the and here you're like thrust into the full Humanity the goodness of humanity full Humanity the goodness of humanity full Humanity the goodness of humanity for the most part for the most part for the most part of course of course of course maybe it gets worse as you become more maybe it gets worse as you become more maybe it gets worse as you become more prominent prominent prominent I hope not I hope not I hope not this is pretty awesome I have a couple this is pretty awesome I have a couple this is pretty awesome I have a couple handful very close friends and I don't handful very close friends and I don't handful very close friends and I don't have enough time for them and attention have enough time for them and attention have enough time for them and attention for them as it is and I find this very for them as it is and I find this very for them as it is and I find this very very regrettable yeah and then there are very regrettable yeah and then there are very regrettable yeah and then there are so many awesome interesting people that so many awesome interesting people that so many awesome interesting people that I keep meeting and I would like to I keep meeting and I would like to I keep meeting and I would like to integrate them in my life but I just integrate them in my life but I just integrate them in my life but I just don't know how because don't know how because don't know how because um but it's only so much time and um but it's only so much time and um but it's only so much time and attention and the older I get the harder attention and the older I get the harder attention and the older I get the harder is to bond with new people in a deep way is to bond with new people in a deep way is to bond with new people in a deep way yeah but can you enjoy I mean there's a yeah but can you enjoy I mean there's a yeah but can you enjoy I mean there's a picture of you I think with Roger picture of you I think with Roger picture of you I think with Roger Penrose and Eric Weinstein and a few Penrose and Eric Weinstein and a few Penrose and Eric Weinstein and a few others there are interesting figures others there are interesting figures others there are interesting figures can't you just enjoy can't you just enjoy can't you just enjoy random interesting humans very much for random interesting humans very much for random interesting humans very much for a short amount of time I'm also I like a short amount of time I'm also I like a short amount of time I'm also I like these people and I what I like is these people and I what I like is these people and I what I like is intellectual stimulation and I'm very intellectual stimulation and I'm very intellectual stimulation and I'm very grateful that I'm getting it can you not grateful that I'm getting it can you not grateful that I'm getting it can you not be Melancholy or maybe I'm projecting I be Melancholy or maybe I'm projecting I be Melancholy or maybe I'm projecting I hate goodbyes hate goodbyes hate goodbyes can we just not hate goodbyes and just can we just not hate goodbyes and just can we just not hate goodbyes and just enjoy the hello take it in take it in enjoy the hello take it in take it in enjoy the hello take it in take it in person taking their ideas and then move person taking their ideas and then move person taking their ideas and then move on through life I think it's totally on through life I think it's totally on through life I think it's totally okay to be sad about goodbyes because okay to be sad about goodbyes because okay to be sad about goodbyes because that indicates that there was something that indicates that there was something that indicates that there was something that you're going to miss that you're going to miss that you're going to miss okay okay okay yeah but it's painful

yeah but it's painful yeah but it's painful maybe that's one of the reasons I'm an maybe that's one of the reasons I'm an maybe that's one of the reasons I'm an introvert is I hate goodbyes but you have to say goodbye before you but you have to say goodbye before you say hello again say hello again say hello again I know I know I know but it it that that experience of loss but it it that that experience of loss but it it that that experience of loss that many loss maybe that's a little death Maybe maybe that's a little death Maybe I don't know I think this Melancholy I don't know I think this Melancholy I don't know I think this Melancholy feeling is just the other side of love feeling is just the other side of love feeling is just the other side of love and I think they go hand in hand and and I think they go hand in hand and and I think they go hand in hand and it's a beautiful thing it's a beautiful thing it's a beautiful thing and I'm just being romantic about it at and I'm just being romantic about it at and I'm just being romantic about it at the moment and I'm not no stranger to the moment and I'm not no stranger to the moment and I'm not no stranger to Melancholy and sometimes it's difficult Melancholy and sometimes it's difficult Melancholy and sometimes it's difficult to Bear to be alive sometimes it's just to Bear to be alive sometimes it's just to Bear to be alive sometimes it's just painful to exist but that there's Beauty in that pain too but that there's Beauty in that pain too that's what Melancholy feeling is it's that's what Melancholy feeling is it's that's what Melancholy feeling is it's not negative like Melancholy doesn't not negative like Melancholy doesn't not negative like Melancholy doesn't have to be negative have to be negative have to be negative can also kill you can also kill you can also kill you well well well we all die eventually we all die eventually we all die eventually now as we got to this topic the actual as we got to this topic the actual question was about with your thoughts question was about with your thoughts question was about with your thoughts are about the development the recent are about the development the recent are about the development the recent development of large language models development of large language models development of large language models with Chad gbt indeed there's a lot of with Chad gbt indeed there's a lot of with Chad gbt indeed there's a lot of hype hype hype is some of the hype Justified which is is some of the hype Justified which is is some of the hype Justified which is which isn't what are your thoughts high which isn't what are your thoughts high which isn't what are your thoughts high level level level I find that um I find that um I find that um large language models do have this large language models do have this large language models do have this coding right so it's an extremely useful coding right so it's an extremely useful coding right so it's an extremely useful application that is for a lot of people application that is for a lot of people application that is for a lot of people um taking stack Overflow out of their um taking stack Overflow out of their um taking stack Overflow out of their life in exchange for something that is

life in exchange for something that is life in exchange for something that is more efficient I feel that chat GPT is more efficient I feel that chat GPT is more efficient I feel that chat GPT is like an intern that I have to like an intern that I have to like an intern that I have to micromanage I've have been working with micromanage I've have been working with micromanage I've have been working with people in the past who were less capable people in the past who were less capable people in the past who were less capable than chat gbt than chat gbt than chat gbt and I'm not saying this because I hate and I'm not saying this because I hate and I'm not saying this because I hate people but they personally as human people but they personally as human people but they personally as human beings there was something present that beings there was something present that beings there was something present that was not there in charity which was why I was not there in charity which was why I was not there in charity which was why I was carving for them but uh was carving for them but uh was carving for them but uh chair GPT is has an interesting ability chair GPT is has an interesting ability chair GPT is has an interesting ability it does give people superpowers and the it does give people superpowers and the it does give people superpowers and the people who feel threatened by them are people who feel threatened by them are people who feel threatened by them are the prompt leaders they are the people the prompt leaders they are the people the prompt leaders they are the people who do what chat CPT is doing right now who do what chat CPT is doing right now who do what chat CPT is doing right now so if you are not creative if you don't so if you are not creative if you don't so if you are not creative if you don't build your own thoughts if you don't build your own thoughts if you don't build your own thoughts if you don't have actual plans in the world and your have actual plans in the world and your have actual plans in the world and your only job is to summarize emails and to only job is to summarize emails and to only job is to summarize emails and to expand uh simple intentions into emails expand uh simple intentions into emails expand uh simple intentions into emails again then chat CPT might look like a again then chat CPT might look like a again then chat CPT might look like a threat but I believe that it is a very threat but I believe that it is a very threat but I believe that it is a very beneficial technology that allows us to beneficial technology that allows us to beneficial technology that allows us to create more interesting stuff and make create more interesting stuff and make create more interesting stuff and make the world more beautiful and fascinating the world more beautiful and fascinating the world more beautiful and fascinating if we find to build it into our life on if we find to build it into our life on if we find to build it into our life on the right ways the right ways the right ways so I'm quite fascinated by these large so I'm quite fascinated by these large so I'm quite fascinated by these large language models but I also think that language models but I also think that language models but I also think that they aren't by no means the final they aren't by no means the final they aren't by no means the final development development development and it's interesting to see how this and it's interesting to see how this and it's interesting to see how this development progresses one thing that development progresses one thing that development progresses one thing that the out of the box vanilla language the out of the box vanilla language the out of the box vanilla language models have as a limitation is that they models have as a limitation is that they models have as a limitation is that they have still some limited coherence and have still some limited coherence and have still some limited coherence and ability to construct complexity

ability to construct complexity ability to construct complexity and even though they exceed human and even though they exceed human and even though they exceed human abilities to do what what they can do abilities to do what what they can do abilities to do what what they can do one shot one shot one shot typically when you write a text with a typically when you write a text with a typically when you write a text with a language model or using it or when you language model or using it or when you language model or using it or when you write code for the language model it's write code for the language model it's write code for the language model it's not one shot because there won't be bugs not one shot because there won't be bugs not one shot because there won't be bugs in your program and design errors and in your program and design errors and in your program and design errors and compiler errors and so on and your compiler errors and so on and your compiler errors and so on and your language model can help you to fix those language model can help you to fix those language model can help you to fix those things but this process is out of the things but this process is out of the things but this process is out of the box not automated yet so there is a box not automated yet so there is a box not automated yet so there is a management process that also needs to be management process that also needs to be management process that also needs to be done done done and there are some interesting and there are some interesting and there are some interesting developments bbagi and so on that are developments bbagi and so on that are developments bbagi and so on that are trying to automate this man uh this trying to automate this man uh this trying to automate this man uh this management process as well and I suspect management process as well and I suspect management process as well and I suspect that soon we are going to see a bunch of that soon we are going to see a bunch of that soon we are going to see a bunch of cognitive architectures where every cognitive architectures where every cognitive architectures where every module is in some sense a language model module is in some sense a language model module is in some sense a language model or something equivalent and between the or something equivalent and between the or something equivalent and between the language models we exchange suitable language models we exchange suitable language models we exchange suitable data structures not English data structures not English data structures not English and produce compound behavior of this and produce compound behavior of this and produce compound behavior of this whole thing to do some of the whole thing to do some of the whole thing to do some of the quote-unquote prompt engineering for you quote-unquote prompt engineering for you quote-unquote prompt engineering for you yeah it creates as these kind of yeah it creates as these kind of yeah it creates as these kind of cognitive architectures that do the form cognitive architectures that do the form cognitive architectures that do the form of engineering and you're just doing the of engineering and you're just doing the of engineering and you're just doing the high high level high high level high high level yeah meta prompt engineering yeah meta prompt engineering yeah meta prompt engineering there are limitations in a language there are limitations in a language there are limitations in a language model alone I feel that part of my mind model alone I feel that part of my mind model alone I feel that part of my mind works similarly to a language model works similarly to a language model works similarly to a language model which means I can yell into it a prompt which means I can yell into it a prompt which means I can yell into it a prompt and it's going to give me a creative and it's going to give me a creative and it's going to give me a creative response but I have to do something with response but I have to do something with response but I have to do something with the points first I have to take it as a the points first I have to take it as a the points first I have to take it as a generative artifact that may or may not generative artifact that may or may not generative artifact that may or may not be true it can it's usually a

be true it can it's usually a be true it can it's usually a contribulation it's just an idea and contribulation it's just an idea and contribulation it's just an idea and then I take this idea and modify it I then I take this idea and modify it I then I take this idea and modify it I might build a new prompt that is might build a new prompt that is might build a new prompt that is stepping off this idea and develops it stepping off this idea and develops it stepping off this idea and develops it to the next level or it put it into to the next level or it put it into to the next level or it put it into something larger or I might try to prove something larger or I might try to prove something larger or I might try to prove whether it's true or make an experiment whether it's true or make an experiment whether it's true or make an experiment and this is what the language models and this is what the language models and this is what the language models right now are not doing yet but there's right now are not doing yet but there's right now are not doing yet but there's also no technical reason for why they also no technical reason for why they also no technical reason for why they shouldn't be able to do this so the way shouldn't be able to do this so the way shouldn't be able to do this so the way to make a language model coherent is to make a language model coherent is to make a language model coherent is probably not to use reinforcement probably not to use reinforcement probably not to use reinforcement learning until it only gives you one learning until it only gives you one learning until it only gives you one possible answer that is uh linking to possible answer that is uh linking to possible answer that is uh linking to its source data but it's using this is a its source data but it's using this is a its source data but it's using this is a component in the larger system that can component in the larger system that can component in the larger system that can also be built by the language model or also be built by the language model or also be built by the language model or is enabled by language model structured is enabled by language model structured is enabled by language model structured components or using different components or using different components or using different Technologies I suspect that language Technologies I suspect that language Technologies I suspect that language models will be an important stepping models will be an important stepping models will be an important stepping stone in developing stone in developing stone in developing different types of systems and one thing different types of systems and one thing different types of systems and one thing that is is really missing in the form of that is is really missing in the form of that is is really missing in the form of language models that we have today is language models that we have today is language models that we have today is real-time World coupling right it's real-time World coupling right it's real-time World coupling right it's difficult to do perception with a difficult to do perception with a difficult to do perception with a language model and motor control with language model and motor control with language model and motor control with the language model instead you would the language model instead you would the language model instead you would need to have different type of of thing need to have different type of of thing need to have different type of of thing that is working with it also the that is working with it also the that is working with it also the language model is a little bit obscuring language model is a little bit obscuring language model is a little bit obscuring but it's actually functionality is some but it's actually functionality is some but it's actually functionality is some people associate the structure of the people associate the structure of the people associate the structure of the neural network of the language model neural network of the language model neural network of the language model with the nervous system and I think with the nervous system and I think with the nervous system and I think that's the wrong intuition that's the wrong intuition that's the wrong intuition and the neural networks are under and the neural networks are under and the neural networks are under nervous system they are more like

nervous system they are more like nervous system they are more like 100 step functions that use 100 step functions that use 100 step functions that use differentiable linear algebra to differentiable linear algebra to differentiable linear algebra to approximate the correlation between a approximate the correlation between a approximate the correlation between a recent brain States it's basically a recent brain States it's basically a recent brain States it's basically a function that moves the step system from function that moves the step system from function that moves the step system from one representational state to the next one representational state to the next one representational state to the next representational state right so it's if representational state right so it's if representational state right so it's if you try to map this into a metaphor that you try to map this into a metaphor that you try to map this into a metaphor that is closer to our brain imagine that you is closer to our brain imagine that you is closer to our brain imagine that you would take a language model or a model would take a language model or a model would take a language model or a model like Delhi that you use for instance like Delhi that you use for instance like Delhi that you use for instance this image image guided diffusion to this image image guided diffusion to this image image guided diffusion to approximate a camera image and use the approximate a camera image and use the approximate a camera image and use the activation state of the neural network activation state of the neural network activation state of the neural network to interpret the camera image which in to interpret the camera image which in to interpret the camera image which in principle I think will be possible very principle I think will be possible very principle I think will be possible very soon soon soon um you do this periodically and now you um you do this periodically and now you um you do this periodically and now you look at these patterns how when the look at these patterns how when the look at these patterns how when the thing interacts with the world thing interacts with the world thing interacts with the world periodically look like as in time and periodically look like as in time and periodically look like as in time and these time slices they are somewhat these time slices they are somewhat these time slices they are somewhat equivalent to the activation state of equivalent to the activation state of equivalent to the activation state of the brain at a given moment how's the the brain at a given moment how's the the brain at a given moment how's the actual brain different actual brain different actual brain different just the asynchronous just the asynchronous just the asynchronous craziness for me it's fascinating that craziness for me it's fascinating that craziness for me it's fascinating that they are so vastly different and yet in they are so vastly different and yet in they are so vastly different and yet in some circumstances produce somewhat some circumstances produce somewhat some circumstances produce somewhat similar Behavior right and the brain is similar Behavior right and the brain is similar Behavior right and the brain is first of all different because it's a first of all different because it's a first of all different because it's a self-organizing system where the self-organizing system where the self-organizing system where the individual cell is an agent that is individual cell is an agent that is individual cell is an agent that is communicating with the other agents communicating with the other agents communicating with the other agents around it and is always trying to find around it and is always trying to find around it and is always trying to find some solution and all the structure that some solution and all the structure that some solution and all the structure that pops up is emerge instructor pops up is emerge instructor pops up is emerge instructor so one way in which you could try to

so one way in which you could try to so one way in which you could try to look at this is that individual neurons look at this is that individual neurons look at this is that individual neurons probably need to get a reward so they probably need to get a reward so they probably need to get a reward so they become trainable which means they have become trainable which means they have become trainable which means they have to have inputs that are not affecting to have inputs that are not affecting to have inputs that are not affecting the metabolism of the cell directly but the metabolism of the cell directly but the metabolism of the cell directly but their messages semantic messages that their messages semantic messages that their messages semantic messages that tell the cell whether it says done good tell the cell whether it says done good tell the cell whether it says done good or bad and in which direction it should or bad and in which direction it should or bad and in which direction it should shift Its Behavior right once you have shift Its Behavior right once you have shift Its Behavior right once you have such an input neurons become trainable such an input neurons become trainable such an input neurons become trainable and you can train them to perform and you can train them to perform and you can train them to perform computations by exchanging messages with computations by exchanging messages with computations by exchanging messages with other neurons and parts of the signals other neurons and parts of the signals other neurons and parts of the signals that they are exchanging in parts of the that they are exchanging in parts of the that they are exchanging in parts of the computation that are performing are computation that are performing are computation that are performing are control messages that perform management control messages that perform management control messages that perform management tasks for other neurons and other cells tasks for other neurons and other cells tasks for other neurons and other cells also suspect that the brain does not also suspect that the brain does not also suspect that the brain does not stop at the boundary of neurons to other stop at the boundary of neurons to other stop at the boundary of neurons to other cells but there are many adjacent cells cells but there are many adjacent cells cells but there are many adjacent cells will be involved intimately in the will be involved intimately in the will be involved intimately in the functionality of the brain and will be functionality of the brain and will be functionality of the brain and will be instrumental in distributing rewards and instrumental in distributing rewards and instrumental in distributing rewards and in managing its functionality in managing its functionality in managing its functionality it's uh fascinating to think about what it's uh fascinating to think about what it's uh fascinating to think about what those characteristics of the brain those characteristics of the brain those characteristics of the brain enable you to do is that language models enable you to do is that language models enable you to do is that language models cannot do so first of all it's there's a cannot do so first of all it's there's a cannot do so first of all it's there's a different loss function at work when we different loss function at work when we different loss function at work when we learn yeah and to me it's fascinating learn yeah and to me it's fascinating learn yeah and to me it's fascinating that you can build a system that looks that you can build a system that looks that you can build a system that looks at 800 million pictures and captions and at 800 million pictures and captions and at 800 million pictures and captions and correlates them because I don't think correlates them because I don't think correlates them because I don't think that the human nervous system could do that the human nervous system could do that the human nervous system could do this this this for us the world is only learnable for us the world is only learnable for us the world is only learnable because the adjacent frames are related because the adjacent frames are related because the adjacent frames are related and we can afford to discard most of and we can afford to discard most of and we can afford to discard most of that information during learning we that information during learning we that information during learning we basically take only in stuff that makes basically take only in stuff that makes basically take only in stuff that makes us more coherent not less coherent and

us more coherent not less coherent and us more coherent not less coherent and our neural networks are willing to look our neural networks are willing to look our neural networks are willing to look at data that is not making the neural at data that is not making the neural at data that is not making the neural network coherent at first but only in network coherent at first but only in network coherent at first but only in the long run by doing lots and lots the long run by doing lots and lots the long run by doing lots and lots statistics eventually patterns become statistics eventually patterns become statistics eventually patterns become visible and emerge and our mind seems to visible and emerge and our mind seems to visible and emerge and our mind seems to be focused on finding the patterns as be focused on finding the patterns as be focused on finding the patterns as early as possible yeah so filtering early as possible yeah so filtering early as possible yeah so filtering early on yes not later yes it's a early on yes not later yes it's a early on yes not later yes it's a slightly different Paradigm and it leads slightly different Paradigm and it leads slightly different Paradigm and it leads to much faster convergence so we only to much faster convergence so we only to much faster convergence so we only need to look the tiny fraction of the need to look the tiny fraction of the need to look the tiny fraction of the data to become coherent and of course we data to become coherent and of course we data to become coherent and of course we we do not have the same richness as our we do not have the same richness as our we do not have the same richness as our trained models here we will not trained models here we will not trained models here we will not incorporate the entirety of text in the incorporate the entirety of text in the incorporate the entirety of text in the internet and be able to refer to it and internet and be able to refer to it and internet and be able to refer to it and have all this knowledge available and have all this knowledge available and have all this knowledge available and being able to confabulate over it being able to confabulate over it being able to confabulate over it instead we have a much much smaller part instead we have a much much smaller part instead we have a much much smaller part of it that is more deliberately built of it that is more deliberately built of it that is more deliberately built and to me it would be fascinating to and to me it would be fascinating to and to me it would be fascinating to think about how to build such systems think about how to build such systems think about how to build such systems it's not obvious that they would it's not obvious that they would it's not obvious that they would necessarily be more efficient than us on necessarily be more efficient than us on necessarily be more efficient than us on a digital substrate but I suspect that a digital substrate but I suspect that a digital substrate but I suspect that they might so I suspect that the actual they might so I suspect that the actual they might so I suspect that the actual AGI that is going to be more interesting AGI that is going to be more interesting AGI that is going to be more interesting is going to use slightly different is going to use slightly different is going to use slightly different algorithmic paradigms or sometimes algorithmic paradigms or sometimes algorithmic paradigms or sometimes massively different algorithmic massively different algorithmic massively different algorithmic paradigms then the current generation of paradigms then the current generation of paradigms then the current generation of Transformer based learning systems do Transformer based learning systems do Transformer based learning systems do you think it might be using just a bunch you think it might be using just a bunch you think it might be using just a bunch of language models like this do you of language models like this do you of language models like this do you think think think the current Transformer based large the current Transformer based large the current Transformer based large language models will take us to AGI language models will take us to AGI language models will take us to AGI and my main issue is I think that and my main issue is I think that and my main issue is I think that they're quite ugly and uh which they're quite ugly and uh which they're quite ugly and uh which brutalist yeah you said yes they are

brutalist yeah you said yes they are brutalist yeah you said yes they are basically brute forcing the problem of basically brute forcing the problem of basically brute forcing the problem of thought thought thought and uh by training the thing with and uh by training the thing with and uh by training the thing with looking at instances where people have looking at instances where people have looking at instances where people have thought and then trying to defect that thought and then trying to defect that thought and then trying to defect that and if you have enough data the depak and if you have enough data the depak and if you have enough data the depak becomes indistinguishable from the becomes indistinguishable from the becomes indistinguishable from the actual phenomenon and in many actual phenomenon and in many actual phenomenon and in many circumstances it's going to be identical circumstances it's going to be identical circumstances it's going to be identical can you deep fake it till you make it can you deep fake it till you make it can you deep fake it till you make it so can you achieve um what are the so can you achieve um what are the so can you achieve um what are the limitations of this I mean can you limitations of this I mean can you limitations of this I mean can you reason reason reason let's use words that are loaded that's let's use words that are loaded that's let's use words that are loaded that's that's that's a very interesting that's that's a very interesting that's that's a very interesting question I I think that these models are question I I think that these models are question I I think that these models are clearly making some inference but if you clearly making some inference but if you clearly making some inference but if you give them a reasoning task it's often give them a reasoning task it's often give them a reasoning task it's often difficult for the experimenters to difficult for the experimenters to difficult for the experimenters to figure out whether the reasoning is the figure out whether the reasoning is the figure out whether the reasoning is the result of the emulation of the reasoning result of the emulation of the reasoning result of the emulation of the reasoning strategy that they saw in human written strategy that they saw in human written strategy that they saw in human written text or whether it's something that the text or whether it's something that the text or whether it's something that the system was able to infer by itself on system was able to infer by itself on system was able to infer by itself on the other hand if you think of human the other hand if you think of human the other hand if you think of human reasoning reasoning reasoning um you if you want to become a very good um you if you want to become a very good um you if you want to become a very good Reasoner you don't do this by just Reasoner you don't do this by just Reasoner you don't do this by just figuring out yourself you read about figuring out yourself you read about figuring out yourself you read about reasoning and the first people who try reasoning and the first people who try reasoning and the first people who try to write about reasoning and reflect on to write about reasoning and reflect on to write about reasoning and reflect on it didn't get it right like even it didn't get it right like even it didn't get it right like even Aristotle who thought about this very Aristotle who thought about this very Aristotle who thought about this very hard and came up with a theory of how hard and came up with a theory of how hard and came up with a theory of how syllogisms works and syllogistic syllogisms works and syllogistic syllogisms works and syllogistic reasoning has mistakes in his attempt to reasoning has mistakes in his attempt to reasoning has mistakes in his attempt to build something like a formal logic and build something like a formal logic and build something like a formal logic and gets maybe 80 right and the people that gets maybe 80 right and the people that gets maybe 80 right and the people that are talking about reasoning are talking about reasoning are talking about reasoning professionally today but tasky and Vega professionally today but tasky and Vega professionally today but tasky and Vega and built on their work so in many ways and built on their work so in many ways and built on their work so in many ways people when they perform reasoning are

people when they perform reasoning are people when they perform reasoning are emulating what other people wrote about emulating what other people wrote about emulating what other people wrote about reasoning right so that it's difficult reasoning right so that it's difficult reasoning right so that it's difficult to really draw this boundary and when to really draw this boundary and when to really draw this boundary and when Francois says that these models are only Francois says that these models are only Francois says that these models are only interpolating between what they saw and interpolating between what they saw and interpolating between what they saw and what other people are doing well if you what other people are doing well if you what other people are doing well if you give them all the latent dimensions of give them all the latent dimensions of give them all the latent dimensions of that can be extracted from the internet that can be extracted from the internet that can be extracted from the internet what's missing maybe there is almost what's missing maybe there is almost what's missing maybe there is almost everything there and if you're not everything there and if you're not everything there and if you're not sufficiently informed by these sufficiently informed by these sufficiently informed by these dimensions and you need more I think dimensions and you need more I think dimensions and you need more I think it's not difficult to increase the it's not difficult to increase the it's not difficult to increase the temperature in the large angles model to temperature in the large angles model to temperature in the large angles model to the point that is producing stuff that the point that is producing stuff that the point that is producing stuff that is maybe 90 nonsense and 10 viable and is maybe 90 nonsense and 10 viable and is maybe 90 nonsense and 10 viable and combine this with some Hoover that is combine this with some Hoover that is combine this with some Hoover that is trying to filter out the viable parts trying to filter out the viable parts trying to filter out the viable parts from the nonsense in the same way as our from the nonsense in the same way as our from the nonsense in the same way as our own thinking works right when we're very own thinking works right when we're very own thinking works right when we're very creative we increase the temperature in creative we increase the temperature in creative we increase the temperature in our own mind and recreate hypothetical our own mind and recreate hypothetical our own mind and recreate hypothetical universes and solutions most of which universes and solutions most of which universes and solutions most of which will not work and then we test and we will not work and then we test and we will not work and then we test and we test by building a core that is test by building a core that is test by building a core that is internally coherent and we use reasoning internally coherent and we use reasoning internally coherent and we use reasoning strategies that use some axiomatic strategies that use some axiomatic strategies that use some axiomatic consistency by which we can consistency by which we can consistency by which we can identify those strategies and thoughts identify those strategies and thoughts identify those strategies and thoughts and sub-universes that are viable and and sub-universes that are viable and and sub-universes that are viable and that can expand our thinking so if you that can expand our thinking so if you that can expand our thinking so if you look at the language models they have look at the language models they have look at the language models they have clear limitations right now one of them clear limitations right now one of them clear limitations right now one of them is they're not coupled to the world in is they're not coupled to the world in is they're not coupled to the world in real time in the way in which our real time in the way in which our real time in the way in which our nervous systems are so it's difficult nervous systems are so it's difficult nervous systems are so it's difficult for them to observe themselves in the for them to observe themselves in the for them to observe themselves in the universe and to observe what kind of universe and to observe what kind of universe and to observe what kind of universe they're in second they don't do universe they're in second they don't do universe they're in second they don't do real-time learnings they basically get

real-time learnings they basically get real-time learnings they basically get only trained with only trained with only trained with algorithms that rely on the data being algorithms that rely on the data being algorithms that rely on the data being available in batches so it can be available in batches so it can be available in batches so it can be parallelized and runs efficiently on the parallelized and runs efficiently on the parallelized and runs efficiently on the network and so on and real-time learning network and so on and real-time learning network and so on and real-time learning would be very slow so far and would be very slow so far and would be very slow so far and inefficient inefficient inefficient that clearly is something that our that clearly is something that our that clearly is something that our nervous systems can do to some degree nervous systems can do to some degree nervous systems can do to some degree and there is a problem with these models and there is a problem with these models and there is a problem with these models being coherent and I suspect that all being coherent and I suspect that all being coherent and I suspect that all these problems are solvable without a these problems are solvable without a these problems are solvable without a technological Revolution we don't need technological Revolution we don't need technological Revolution we don't need fundamentally new algorithms to change fundamentally new algorithms to change fundamentally new algorithms to change that for instance you can enlarge in the that for instance you can enlarge in the that for instance you can enlarge in the context window and thereby basically context window and thereby basically context window and thereby basically create working memory in which you train create working memory in which you train create working memory in which you train everything that happens during the day everything that happens during the day everything that happens during the day and if that is not sufficient you add a and if that is not sufficient you add a and if that is not sufficient you add a database and you write some clever database and you write some clever database and you write some clever mechanisms that the system learns to use mechanisms that the system learns to use mechanisms that the system learns to use to swap out in and out stuff from its to swap out in and out stuff from its to swap out in and out stuff from its prompt context right and if that is not prompt context right and if that is not prompt context right and if that is not sufficient if your database is full in sufficient if your database is full in sufficient if your database is full in the evening overnight you just train if the evening overnight you just train if the evening overnight you just train if the system is going to sleep and dream the system is going to sleep and dream the system is going to sleep and dream and is going to train the staff from its and is going to train the staff from its and is going to train the staff from its database into the larger model by database into the larger model by database into the larger model by fine-tuning it building additional fine-tuning it building additional fine-tuning it building additional layers and so on and then the next day layers and so on and then the next day layers and so on and then the next day it starts with a fresh database in the it starts with a fresh database in the it starts with a fresh database in the morning with fresh eyes and has morning with fresh eyes and has morning with fresh eyes and has integrated all this stuff and you know integrated all this stuff and you know integrated all this stuff and you know when you talk to people and you have when you talk to people and you have when you talk to people and you have strong disagreements about something strong disagreements about something strong disagreements about something which means that in their mind they have which means that in their mind they have which means that in their mind they have a faulty belief or you have a faulty a faulty belief or you have a faulty a faulty belief or you have a faulty belief with a lot of dependencies on it belief with a lot of dependencies on it belief with a lot of dependencies on it very often you will not achieve very often you will not achieve very often you will not achieve agreement in one session but you need to agreement in one session but you need to agreement in one session but you need to sleep about this once or multiple times sleep about this once or multiple times sleep about this once or multiple times for you before you have integrated all for you before you have integrated all for you before you have integrated all these necessary changes in your mind so these necessary changes in your mind so these necessary changes in your mind so maybe it's already somewhat similar yeah maybe it's already somewhat similar yeah maybe it's already somewhat similar yeah right there's already a latency and for

right there's already a latency and for right there's already a latency and for humans to update the model yeah we train humans to update the model yeah we train humans to update the model yeah we train the model and of course we can combine the model and of course we can combine the model and of course we can combine the language model with models that get the language model with models that get the language model with models that get coupled to reality in real time and we coupled to reality in real time and we coupled to reality in real time and we can build multimodal model and bridge can build multimodal model and bridge can build multimodal model and bridge between Vision models and language between Vision models and language between Vision models and language models and so on so there is no reason models and so on so there is no reason models and so on so there is no reason to believe that the language models will to believe that the language models will to believe that the language models will necessarily run into some problem that necessarily run into some problem that necessarily run into some problem that will prevent them from becoming will prevent them from becoming will prevent them from becoming generally intelligent generally intelligent generally intelligent but I don't know that it's just I don't but I don't know that it's just I don't but I don't know that it's just I don't see proof that they wouldn't my issue is see proof that they wouldn't my issue is see proof that they wouldn't my issue is I don't like them I think that they're I don't like them I think that they're I don't like them I think that they're inefficient I think that they use way inefficient I think that they use way inefficient I think that they use way too much compute I think that given the too much compute I think that given the too much compute I think that given the amazing Hardware that we have we could amazing Hardware that we have we could amazing Hardware that we have we could build something that is much more build something that is much more build something that is much more beautiful than our own mind and this beautiful than our own mind and this beautiful than our own mind and this thing is not as beautiful than at as our thing is not as beautiful than at as our thing is not as beautiful than at as our own mind despite being so much larger own mind despite being so much larger own mind despite being so much larger but it's a kind of proof of concept it's but it's a kind of proof of concept it's but it's a kind of proof of concept it's the only thing that works right now the only thing that works right now the only thing that works right now right so it's the it's not the only game right so it's the it's not the only game right so it's the it's not the only game in town but it's the only thing that has in town but it's the only thing that has in town but it's the only thing that has this utility there's so much Simplicity this utility there's so much Simplicity this utility there's so much Simplicity and there's a bunch of relatively simple and there's a bunch of relatively simple and there's a bunch of relatively simple algorithms that you can understand in algorithms that you can understand in algorithms that you can understand in relatively few weeks that can be scaled relatively few weeks that can be scaled relatively few weeks that can be scaled up massively up massively up massively so it's the uh the deep blue of Chess so it's the uh the deep blue of Chess so it's the uh the deep blue of Chess playing playing playing yeah it's not it's ugly yeah called yeah it's not it's ugly yeah called yeah it's not it's ugly yeah called China and hit this uh when you describe China and hit this uh when you describe China and hit this uh when you describe chess suggested that there are two main chess suggested that there are two main chess suggested that there are two main strategies in which you could play chess strategies in which you could play chess strategies in which you could play chess one is that you are making a very one is that you are making a very one is that you are making a very complicated plan that reaches far into complicated plan that reaches far into complicated plan that reaches far into the future and you try not to make a the future and you try not to make a the future and you try not to make a mistake while enacting it and this is mistake while enacting it and this is mistake while enacting it and this is basically the human strategy and the basically the human strategy and the basically the human strategy and the other strategy is that you are brute other strategy is that you are brute other strategy is that you are brute forcing your way to success which means

forcing your way to success which means forcing your way to success which means you make a tree of possible moves where you make a tree of possible moves where you make a tree of possible moves where you look at in principle every move that you look at in principle every move that you look at in principle every move that is open to you or the possible answers is open to you or the possible answers is open to you or the possible answers and you try to make this as deeply as and you try to make this as deeply as and you try to make this as deeply as possible of course you optimize you cut possible of course you optimize you cut possible of course you optimize you cut off trees that don't look very promising off trees that don't look very promising off trees that don't look very promising and you use libraries of um end game and and you use libraries of um end game and and you use libraries of um end game and early game and so on to optimize this early game and so on to optimize this early game and so on to optimize this entire process but this boot Force entire process but this boot Force entire process but this boot Force strategy is how most of the chess strategy is how most of the chess strategy is how most of the chess programs were built and this is how programs were built and this is how programs were built and this is how computers get better than humans at computers get better than humans at computers get better than humans at playing chess and um and I look at the playing chess and um and I look at the playing chess and um and I look at the large language models I feel that I'm large language models I feel that I'm large language models I feel that I'm observing the same thing it's basically observing the same thing it's basically observing the same thing it's basically The Brute Force strategy to thought by The Brute Force strategy to thought by The Brute Force strategy to thought by training this thing on pretty much the training this thing on pretty much the training this thing on pretty much the entire internet and then in the limit it entire internet and then in the limit it entire internet and then in the limit it gets coherent to a degree that gets coherent to a degree that gets coherent to a degree that approaches human coherence yeah and on a approaches human coherence yeah and on a approaches human coherence yeah and on a side effect it's able to do things that side effect it's able to do things that side effect it's able to do things that no human could do right it's able to uh no human could do right it's able to uh no human could do right it's able to uh sift through massive amounts of text sift through massive amounts of text sift through massive amounts of text relatively quickly and summarize them relatively quickly and summarize them relatively quickly and summarize them quickly and never lapses in attention quickly and never lapses in attention quickly and never lapses in attention and I still have the illusion that when and I still have the illusion that when and I still have the illusion that when I play with chat GPT that it's in I play with chat GPT that it's in I play with chat GPT that it's in principle not doing anything that I principle not doing anything that I principle not doing anything that I could not do if I had Google at my could not do if I had Google at my could not do if I had Google at my disposal and I get all the resources disposal and I get all the resources disposal and I get all the resources from the internet and spend enough time from the internet and spend enough time from the internet and spend enough time on it but uh this this thing that I have on it but uh this this thing that I have on it but uh this this thing that I have an extremely autistic stupid intern in a an extremely autistic stupid intern in a an extremely autistic stupid intern in a way that is extremely good at directory way that is extremely good at directory way that is extremely good at directory and I can offload the droidery to the and I can offload the droidery to the and I can offload the droidery to the degree that I'm able to automate the degree that I'm able to automate the degree that I'm able to automate the management of the intern is is something management of the intern is is something management of the intern is is something that is difficult for me to overhype at that is difficult for me to overhype at that is difficult for me to overhype at this point because we have not yet this point because we have not yet this point because we have not yet started to scratch the surface of what's

started to scratch the surface of what's started to scratch the surface of what's possible with this but it feels like possible with this but it feels like possible with this but it feels like it's a tireless intern or maybe it's an it's a tireless intern or maybe it's an it's a tireless intern or maybe it's an army of interns army of interns army of interns and so you get to command and so you get to command and so you get to command these slightly incompetent creatures these slightly incompetent creatures these slightly incompetent creatures and there's an aspect because of how and there's an aspect because of how and there's an aspect because of how rapidly you can iterate with it rapidly you can iterate with it rapidly you can iterate with it it's also part of the brainstorming part it's also part of the brainstorming part it's also part of the brainstorming part of the of the of the kind of inspiration for your own kind of inspiration for your own kind of inspiration for your own thinking so you get to interact with the thinking so you get to interact with the thinking so you get to interact with the thing I mean when I'm programming or thing I mean when I'm programming or thing I mean when I'm programming or doing any kind of generational GPT is doing any kind of generational GPT is doing any kind of generational GPT is it's somehow is a catalyst for your own it's somehow is a catalyst for your own it's somehow is a catalyst for your own thinking in a way that I think an intern thinking in a way that I think an intern thinking in a way that I think an intern might not be yeah it gets really might not be yeah it gets really might not be yeah it gets really interesting I find is when you turn it interesting I find is when you turn it interesting I find is when you turn it into a multi-agent system so for into a multi-agent system so for into a multi-agent system so for instance instance instance um you can get the system to generate a um you can get the system to generate a um you can get the system to generate a dialogue between a patient and a doctor dialogue between a patient and a doctor dialogue between a patient and a doctor very easily but what's more interesting very easily but what's more interesting very easily but what's more interesting is you have one instance of chat CPT is you have one instance of chat CPT is you have one instance of chat CPT that is the patient and you tell that in that is the patient and you tell that in that is the patient and you tell that in the prompt what kind of complicated the prompt what kind of complicated the prompt what kind of complicated syndrome it has and the other one is the syndrome it has and the other one is the syndrome it has and the other one is the therapist who doesn't know anything therapist who doesn't know anything therapist who doesn't know anything about the uh this patient and you just about the uh this patient and you just about the uh this patient and you just have these two instances battling it out have these two instances battling it out have these two instances battling it out and observe the psychiatrist or a and observe the psychiatrist or a and observe the psychiatrist or a psychologist trying to analyze the psychologist trying to analyze the psychologist trying to analyze the patient and trying to figure out what's patient and trying to figure out what's patient and trying to figure out what's wrong with the patient and if you try to wrong with the patient and if you try to wrong with the patient and if you try to take a very large problem the problem take a very large problem the problem take a very large problem the problem for instance how to build a company and for instance how to build a company and for instance how to build a company and you turn this into lots and lots of sub you turn this into lots and lots of sub you turn this into lots and lots of sub problems then often you can get to a problems then often you can get to a problems then often you can get to a level where the language model is able level where the language model is able level where the language model is able to solve this what I also found to solve this what I also found to solve this what I also found interesting is based on the observation

interesting is based on the observation interesting is based on the observation that chat GPT is pretty good at that chat GPT is pretty good at that chat GPT is pretty good at translating between program language translating between program language translating between program language address but sometimes there's difficulty address but sometimes there's difficulty address but sometimes there's difficulty to write very long coherent algorithms to write very long coherent algorithms to write very long coherent algorithms that you need and you need to core write that you need and you need to core write that you need and you need to core write them as human author why not design a them as human author why not design a them as human author why not design a language that is suitable for this so language that is suitable for this so language that is suitable for this so some kind of pseudo quote that is more some kind of pseudo quote that is more some kind of pseudo quote that is more relaxed than Python and that allows you relaxed than Python and that allows you relaxed than Python and that allows you to sometimes specify a problem vaguely to sometimes specify a problem vaguely to sometimes specify a problem vaguely in human terms and let the church repeat in human terms and let the church repeat in human terms and let the church repeat take care of the take care of the rest take care of the take care of the rest take care of the take care of the rest and you can use chat CPT to develop that and you can use chat CPT to develop that and you can use chat CPT to develop that Syntax for it and Syntax for it and Syntax for it and develop new kinds of programming develop new kinds of programming develop new kinds of programming paradigms in this way so we very soon paradigms in this way so we very soon paradigms in this way so we very soon get to the point where this question the get to the point where this question the get to the point where this question the age-old question for US computer age-old question for US computer age-old question for US computer scientists versus the best spoken scientists versus the best spoken scientists versus the best spoken language and can we write a better language and can we write a better language and can we write a better programming language now that this programming language now that this programming language now that this um I think that almost every serious um I think that almost every serious um I think that almost every serious computer scientist goes through a phase computer scientist goes through a phase computer scientist goes through a phase like this in their life like this in their life like this in their life this is a question that is almost no this is a question that is almost no this is a question that is almost no longer relevant because what is longer relevant because what is longer relevant because what is different between the programming different between the programming different between the programming languages is not what the let the languages is not what the let the languages is not what the let the computer do but what they let you think computer do but what they let you think computer do but what they let you think about what the computer should be doing about what the computer should be doing about what the computer should be doing and and and now the threat GPT becomes an interface now the threat GPT becomes an interface now the threat GPT becomes an interface to this in which you can specify in many to this in which you can specify in many to this in which you can specify in many many ways what the computer should be many ways what the computer should be many ways what the computer should be doing and chat GPT or some other doing and chat GPT or some other doing and chat GPT or some other language model or combination of system language model or combination of system language model or combination of system is going to take care of the rest and is going to take care of the rest and is going to take care of the rest and allow you expand the realm of thought allow you expand the realm of thought allow you expand the realm of thought you're allowed to have when interacting you're allowed to have when interacting you're allowed to have when interacting with the computer with the computer with the computer it sounds to me like you're saying it sounds to me like you're saying it sounds to me like you're saying there's basically no limitations your there's basically no limitations your there's basically no limitations your intuition says to what larger language I

intuition says to what larger language I intuition says to what larger language I don't know of that limitation so when I don't know of that limitation so when I don't know of that limitation so when I currently play with it it's quite currently play with it it's quite currently play with it it's quite limited I wish that it was way better limited I wish that it was way better limited I wish that it was way better but isn't that your fault versus the but isn't that your fault versus the but isn't that your fault versus the larger no no of course it's always my larger no no of course it's always my larger no no of course it's always my fault there's probably a way to make fault there's probably a way to make fault there's probably a way to make everything better I just want to get you everything better I just want to get you everything better I just want to get you on the record saying yes everything is on the record saying yes everything is on the record saying yes everything is my fault that works doesn't work in my my fault that works doesn't work in my my fault that works doesn't work in my life at least that is usually the most life at least that is usually the most life at least that is usually the most useful perspective for myself even useful perspective for myself even useful perspective for myself even though with hindsight I feel no I though with hindsight I feel no I though with hindsight I feel no I sometimes wish I could have seen myself sometimes wish I could have seen myself sometimes wish I could have seen myself as part of my environment more and as part of my environment more and as part of my environment more and understand that a lot of people are understand that a lot of people are understand that a lot of people are actually seeing me and looking at me and actually seeing me and looking at me and actually seeing me and looking at me and not trying to make my life work in the not trying to make my life work in the not trying to make my life work in the same way as I try to help others and same way as I try to help others and same way as I try to help others and making this switch to uh making this switch to uh making this switch to uh this level 3 perspective is something this level 3 perspective is something this level 3 perspective is something that happened long after my level 4 that happened long after my level 4 that happened long after my level 4 perspective in my life and I wish that I perspective in my life and I wish that I perspective in my life and I wish that I could have had it earlier and it's also could have had it earlier and it's also could have had it earlier and it's also not now that I don't feel like I'm not now that I don't feel like I'm not now that I don't feel like I'm complete I'm all over the place that's complete I'm all over the place that's complete I'm all over the place that's all where's happiness in terms of stages all where's happiness in terms of stages all where's happiness in terms of stages is on three and four no Take that is on three and four no Take that is on three and four no Take that tension you can be happy at any stage or tension you can be happy at any stage or tension you can be happy at any stage or unhappy unhappy unhappy but I think that if you are at a stage but I think that if you are at a stage but I think that if you are at a stage where you get agency over how your where you get agency over how your where you get agency over how your feelings are generated and to some feelings are generated and to some feelings are generated and to some degree you start doing this when you degree you start doing this when you degree you start doing this when you leave a dollar sense I believe that you leave a dollar sense I believe that you leave a dollar sense I believe that you understand that you're in charge of your understand that you're in charge of your understand that you're in charge of your own emotion to some degree and that you own emotion to some degree and that you own emotion to some degree and that you are responsible how you approach the are responsible how you approach the are responsible how you approach the world that it's basically your task to world that it's basically your task to world that it's basically your task to have some basic hygiene how in the way have some basic hygiene how in the way have some basic hygiene how in the way in which you deal with your mind and you in which you deal with your mind and you in which you deal with your mind and you cannot blame your environment for the cannot blame your environment for the cannot blame your environment for the way in which you feel but you live in a

way in which you feel but you live in a way in which you feel but you live in a world that is highly mobile and it's world that is highly mobile and it's world that is highly mobile and it's your job to choose the environment that your job to choose the environment that your job to choose the environment that you thrive in and to build it and you thrive in and to build it and you thrive in and to build it and sometimes it's difficult to get the sometimes it's difficult to get the sometimes it's difficult to get the necessary strengths and the energy to do necessary strengths and the energy to do necessary strengths and the energy to do this and Independence and the worse you this and Independence and the worse you this and Independence and the worse you feel the harder it is feel the harder it is feel the harder it is but it's something that you learn it's but it's something that you learn it's but it's something that you learn it's also this thing that we are usually also this thing that we are usually also this thing that we are usually incomplete right I'm I'm a rare mind incomplete right I'm I'm a rare mind incomplete right I'm I'm a rare mind which means I'm a mind that is which means I'm a mind that is which means I'm a mind that is incomplete in ways that are harder to incomplete in ways that are harder to incomplete in ways that are harder to complete so for me it might have been complete so for me it might have been complete so for me it might have been harder to initially to find the right harder to initially to find the right harder to initially to find the right relationships and friends that complete relationships and friends that complete relationships and friends that complete me to the degree that I become an almost me to the degree that I become an almost me to the degree that I become an almost functional human being functional human being functional human being huh huh huh oh man the search space of humans that oh man the search space of humans that oh man the search space of humans that complete you is an interesting one complete you is an interesting one complete you is an interesting one especially for your shabach that's an especially for your shabach that's an especially for your shabach that's an interesting because talking about Brute interesting because talking about Brute interesting because talking about Brute Force search in chess Force search in chess Force search in chess yep I wanna I wanna I wonder what that yep I wanna I wanna I wonder what that yep I wanna I wanna I wonder what that search tree looks like search tree looks like search tree looks like I think that my rational thinking is not I think that my rational thinking is not I think that my rational thinking is not good enough to solve that task a lot of good enough to solve that task a lot of good enough to solve that task a lot of problems in my life that I can problems in my life that I can problems in my life that I can conceptualize as software problems and conceptualize as software problems and conceptualize as software problems and the failure modes are bucks and they can the failure modes are bucks and they can the failure modes are bucks and they can debug them and write software that take debug them and write software that take debug them and write software that take care of the missing functionality care of the missing functionality care of the missing functionality but the stuff that they don't understand but the stuff that they don't understand but the stuff that they don't understand well enough to and uh to use my well enough to and uh to use my well enough to and uh to use my analytical reasoning to solve the issue analytical reasoning to solve the issue analytical reasoning to solve the issue and then I have to develop my intuitions and then I have to develop my intuitions and then I have to develop my intuitions and often I have to do this with people and often I have to do this with people and often I have to do this with people who are wiser than me and that's who are wiser than me and that's who are wiser than me and that's something that's hard for me because I something that's hard for me because I something that's hard for me because I don't have I'm not born with the don't have I'm not born with the don't have I'm not born with the instinct to submit to other people's instinct to submit to other people's instinct to submit to other people's wisdom yeah wisdom yeah wisdom yeah so what kind of problems are we talking

so what kind of problems are we talking so what kind of problems are we talking about this is stage three like love about this is stage three like love about this is stage three like love I found love was never hard I found love was never hard I found love was never hard then then then fitting into a world that most people fitting into a world that most people fitting into a world that most people work differently than you and have work differently than you and have work differently than you and have different intuitions of what should be different intuitions of what should be different intuitions of what should be done ah done ah done ah to empathy um it's also um it's also Aesthetics when you come into a world Aesthetics when you come into a world Aesthetics when you come into a world where almost everything is ugly and you where almost everything is ugly and you where almost everything is ugly and you come out of a world where everything is come out of a world where everything is come out of a world where everything is beautiful I grew up in a beautiful place beautiful I grew up in a beautiful place beautiful I grew up in a beautiful place and as a child of an artist yeah and um and as a child of an artist yeah and um and as a child of an artist yeah and um in in this place it was mostly nature in in this place it was mostly nature in in this place it was mostly nature everything had intrinsic Beauty everything had intrinsic Beauty everything had intrinsic Beauty and everything was and everything was and everything was built out of an intrinsic need for it to built out of an intrinsic need for it to built out of an intrinsic need for it to work for itself everything that my work for itself everything that my work for itself everything that my father created was something that he father created was something that he father created was something that he made to get the world to work for made to get the world to work for made to get the world to work for himself and I felt the same thing and himself and I felt the same thing and himself and I felt the same thing and when I come out into the world and I when I come out into the world and I when I come out into the world and I must to submit to lots and lots of rules must to submit to lots and lots of rules must to submit to lots and lots of rules I'm asking okay when I observe your I'm asking okay when I observe your I'm asking okay when I observe your stupid rules what is the benefit and I stupid rules what is the benefit and I stupid rules what is the benefit and I see the life that is being offered as a see the life that is being offered as a see the life that is being offered as a reward that's not attractive reward that's not attractive reward that's not attractive when you were born and raised in when you were born and raised in when you were born and raised in extraterrestrial Prince extraterrestrial Prince extraterrestrial Prince in a world full of people wearing suits in a world full of people wearing suits in a world full of people wearing suits so it's a it's a challenging integration so it's a it's a challenging integration so it's a it's a challenging integration yes but it also means that I'm often yes but it also means that I'm often yes but it also means that I'm often blind for the ways in which everybody is blind for the ways in which everybody is blind for the ways in which everybody is creating their own bubble of creating their own bubble of creating their own bubble of wholesomeness almost everybody and wholesomeness almost everybody and wholesomeness almost everybody and people are trying to do it and for me to

people are trying to do it and for me to people are trying to do it and for me to discover this it was necessary that I discover this it was necessary that I discover this it was necessary that I found people who had a similar shape of found people who had a similar shape of found people who had a similar shape of Soul as myself so basically where I Soul as myself so basically where I Soul as myself so basically where I thought these are my people people that thought these are my people people that thought these are my people people that treat each other in such a way as if treat each other in such a way as if treat each other in such a way as if they're around for each other for they're around for each other for they're around for each other for eternity eternity eternity how long how long does it take you to uh how long how long does it take you to uh how long how long does it take you to uh to detect the geometry the shape of the to detect the geometry the shape of the to detect the geometry the shape of the soul of another human to notice that soul of another human to notice that soul of another human to notice that they might be one one of your kind they might be one one of your kind they might be one one of your kind um sometimes it's instantly and I'm um sometimes it's instantly and I'm um sometimes it's instantly and I'm wrong and sometimes it takes a long time wrong and sometimes it takes a long time wrong and sometimes it takes a long time you believe in love at first sight yeah yes but I also noticed that I have been yes but I also noticed that I have been wrong wrong wrong so uh sometimes I look at a person and so uh sometimes I look at a person and so uh sometimes I look at a person and I'm just enamored by everything about I'm just enamored by everything about I'm just enamored by everything about them and sometimes this persists and them and sometimes this persists and them and sometimes this persists and sometimes it doesn't and I sometimes it doesn't and I sometimes it doesn't and I I have the illusion that it them much I have the illusion that it them much I have the illusion that it them much better at recognizing who people are as better at recognizing who people are as better at recognizing who people are as they grow older they grow older they grow older but that could be just but that could be just but that could be just cynicism no no it's not cynicism it's um cynicism no no it's not cynicism it's um cynicism no no it's not cynicism it's um it's often more that I'm able to it's often more that I'm able to it's often more that I'm able to recognize what somebody needs when we recognize what somebody needs when we recognize what somebody needs when we interact and how we can meaningfully interact and how we can meaningfully interact and how we can meaningfully interact it's not clinical at all you're interact it's not clinical at all you're interact it's not clinical at all you're better at noticing yes I'm much better I better at noticing yes I'm much better I better at noticing yes I'm much better I think in some stances and understanding think in some stances and understanding think in some stances and understanding how to interact with other people then I how to interact with other people then I how to interact with other people then I did when I was young so that takes us it did when I was young so that takes us it did when I was young so that takes us it doesn't mean that I'm always very good doesn't mean that I'm always very good doesn't mean that I'm always very good at it so that takes us back to prompt at it so that takes us back to prompt at it so that takes us back to prompt engineering of uh noticing how to be a engineering of uh noticing how to be a engineering of uh noticing how to be a better prompt engineer of an llm a sense

better prompt engineer of an llm a sense better prompt engineer of an llm a sense I have is that there's a I have is that there's a I have is that there's a bottomless well of skill to become a bottomless well of skill to become a bottomless well of skill to become a great prompt engineer it feels like it great prompt engineer it feels like it great prompt engineer it feels like it is all my fault whenever I fail to use is all my fault whenever I fail to use is all my fault whenever I fail to use strategypt correctly that I didn't find strategypt correctly that I didn't find strategypt correctly that I didn't find the right words most of the stuff that I'm doing in my most of the stuff that I'm doing in my life doesn't need to attribut there are life doesn't need to attribut there are life doesn't need to attribut there are a few tasks that are where it helps but a few tasks that are where it helps but a few tasks that are where it helps but the main stuff that I need to do like the main stuff that I need to do like the main stuff that I need to do like I'm developing my own thoughts and I'm developing my own thoughts and I'm developing my own thoughts and Aesthetics and relationship to people Aesthetics and relationship to people Aesthetics and relationship to people and it's necessary for me to write for and it's necessary for me to write for and it's necessary for me to write for myself because writing is is not so much myself because writing is is not so much myself because writing is is not so much about producing an artifact that other about producing an artifact that other about producing an artifact that other people can use but it's the way to people can use but it's the way to people can use but it's the way to structure your own thoughts and develop structure your own thoughts and develop structure your own thoughts and develop yourself and so I think this idea that yourself and so I think this idea that yourself and so I think this idea that kids are writing their own essays with kids are writing their own essays with kids are writing their own essays with chat GPT in the future is going to have chat GPT in the future is going to have chat GPT in the future is going to have this drawback that they miss out on the this drawback that they miss out on the this drawback that they miss out on the ability to structure their own minds via ability to structure their own minds via ability to structure their own minds via writing and I hope that these schools writing and I hope that these schools writing and I hope that these schools that our kids are in will retain the that our kids are in will retain the that our kids are in will retain the wisdom of understanding what parts would wisdom of understanding what parts would wisdom of understanding what parts would be automated and which ones shouldn't be automated and which ones shouldn't be automated and which ones shouldn't but at the same time it feels like but at the same time it feels like but at the same time it feels like there's power and disagreeing with the there's power and disagreeing with the there's power and disagreeing with the thing that your GPT produces so I use it thing that your GPT produces so I use it thing that your GPT produces so I use it like that for programming I'll see the like that for programming I'll see the like that for programming I'll see the thing it recommends thing it recommends thing it recommends and then I'll write different code yeah and then I'll write different code yeah and then I'll write different code yeah I disagree and in the disagreement your I disagree and in the disagreement your I disagree and in the disagreement your mind grows stronger mind grows stronger mind grows stronger um I'm recently wrote the tool that is um I'm recently wrote the tool that is um I'm recently wrote the tool that is using the camera on my MacBook and Swift using the camera on my MacBook and Swift using the camera on my MacBook and Swift to read pixels out of it and manipulate

to read pixels out of it and manipulate to read pixels out of it and manipulate them and so on and I don't know Swift them and so on and I don't know Swift them and so on and I don't know Swift um so it was super helpful to have the um so it was super helpful to have the um so it was super helpful to have the thing that is writing stuff for me and thing that is writing stuff for me and thing that is writing stuff for me and also interesting that mostly it didn't also interesting that mostly it didn't also interesting that mostly it didn't work at first I felt like I was talking work at first I felt like I was talking work at first I felt like I was talking to a human being who's trying to hack to a human being who's trying to hack to a human being who's trying to hack this on my computer without this on my computer without this on my computer without understanding my configuration very much understanding my configuration very much understanding my configuration very much and also make a lot of mistakes and and also make a lot of mistakes and and also make a lot of mistakes and sometimes it's a little bit incoherent sometimes it's a little bit incoherent sometimes it's a little bit incoherent so you have to I ultimately understand so you have to I ultimately understand so you have to I ultimately understand what it's doing there's still no other what it's doing there's still no other what it's doing there's still no other way around it but I do feel it's much way around it but I do feel it's much way around it but I do feel it's much more powerful and faster than using more powerful and faster than using more powerful and faster than using stack overflow do you think do you think gptn can achieve consciousness gptn can achieve consciousness gptn can achieve consciousness well well well gptn probably it's not even clear for gptn probably it's not even clear for gptn probably it's not even clear for the present systems and I talked to my the present systems and I talked to my the present systems and I talked to my friends at open AI they feel that this friends at open AI they feel that this friends at open AI they feel that this question whether the models currently question whether the models currently question whether the models currently are conscious is much more complicated are conscious is much more complicated are conscious is much more complicated than many people might think I guess than many people might think I guess than many people might think I guess that it's not that open AI has a that it's not that open AI has a that it's not that open AI has a homogeneous opinion about this but homogeneous opinion about this but homogeneous opinion about this but there's some aspects to this one is of there's some aspects to this one is of there's some aspects to this one is of course this language model has written a course this language model has written a course this language model has written a lot of text in which people were lot of text in which people were lot of text in which people were conscious or described their own conscious or described their own conscious or described their own Consciousness and it's emulating this Consciousness and it's emulating this Consciousness and it's emulating this and if it's conscious it's probably not and if it's conscious it's probably not and if it's conscious it's probably not conscious in a way that is close to the conscious in a way that is close to the conscious in a way that is close to the way in which human beings are conscious way in which human beings are conscious way in which human beings are conscious but but but while it is going through these states while it is going through these states while it is going through these states and going through 100 step function that and going through 100 step function that and going through 100 step function that is emulating adjacent brain states that is emulating adjacent brain states that is emulating adjacent brain states that require a degree of self-reflection it require a degree of self-reflection it require a degree of self-reflection it can also create a model of an observer

can also create a model of an observer can also create a model of an observer that is reflecting itself in real time that is reflecting itself in real time that is reflecting itself in real time and describe what that's like and while and describe what that's like and while and describe what that's like and while this model is the Deep fake our own this model is the Deep fake our own this model is the Deep fake our own Consciousness is also as if it's virtual Consciousness is also as if it's virtual Consciousness is also as if it's virtual right it's not physical our right it's not physical our right it's not physical our Consciousness is a representation of a Consciousness is a representation of a Consciousness is a representation of a self-reflexive Observer that only exists self-reflexive Observer that only exists self-reflexive Observer that only exists in patterns of interaction between cells in patterns of interaction between cells in patterns of interaction between cells so it is not a physical object in the so it is not a physical object in the so it is not a physical object in the sense that exists in base reality but sense that exists in base reality but sense that exists in base reality but it's really a representational object it's really a representational object it's really a representational object that develops its causal power only from that develops its causal power only from that develops its causal power only from a certain modeling perspective it's a certain modeling perspective it's a certain modeling perspective it's virtual yes and so to which degree is virtual yes and so to which degree is virtual yes and so to which degree is the virtuality of the Consciousness in the virtuality of the Consciousness in the virtuality of the Consciousness in chat GPT more virtual and less causal chat GPT more virtual and less causal chat GPT more virtual and less causal than the virtuality of our own than the virtuality of our own than the virtuality of our own consciousness consciousness consciousness but you could say it doesn't count it but you could say it doesn't count it but you could say it doesn't count it doesn't count much more than the doesn't count much more than the doesn't count much more than the consciousness of a character in a novel consciousness of a character in a novel consciousness of a character in a novel right it's important for the reader to right it's important for the reader to right it's important for the reader to have the outcome the artifact of a model have the outcome the artifact of a model have the outcome the artifact of a model is describing in the text generated by is describing in the text generated by is describing in the text generated by the author of the book what it's like to the author of the book what it's like to the author of the book what it's like to be conscious in a particular situation be conscious in a particular situation be conscious in a particular situation and performs the necessary inferences and performs the necessary inferences and performs the necessary inferences but the task of creating coherence in but the task of creating coherence in but the task of creating coherence in real time in a self-organizing system by real time in a self-organizing system by real time in a self-organizing system by keeping yourself coherent so the system keeping yourself coherent so the system keeping yourself coherent so the system is reflexive that is something that is reflexive that is something that is reflexive that is something that language models don't need to do so language models don't need to do so language models don't need to do so there is no cost or need for the system there is no cost or need for the system there is no cost or need for the system to be conscious in the same way as we to be conscious in the same way as we to be conscious in the same way as we are and for me it would be very are and for me it would be very are and for me it would be very interesting to experiment with this to interesting to experiment with this to interesting to experiment with this to basically build a system like a cat basically build a system like a cat basically build a system like a cat probably should be careful at first probably should be careful at first probably should be careful at first build something that's more that's build something that's more that's build something that's more that's limited as limited resources that we can limited as limited resources that we can limited as limited resources that we can control and study how systems notice a

control and study how systems notice a control and study how systems notice a self model how they became come self model how they became come self model how they became come self-aware in real time self-aware in real time self-aware in real time and I think it might be a good idea to and I think it might be a good idea to and I think it might be a good idea to not start with a language model but to not start with a language model but to not start with a language model but to start from scratch using principles of start from scratch using principles of start from scratch using principles of self-organization self-organization self-organization is it okay can you elaborate why you is it okay can you elaborate why you is it okay can you elaborate why you think that is so self-organization so think that is so self-organization so think that is so self-organization so this kind of this kind of this kind of radical legality that you see in the radical legality that you see in the radical legality that you see in the biological systems why can't you start biological systems why can't you start biological systems why can't you start with a language model what what's your with a language model what what's your with a language model what what's your intuition intuition intuition my intuition is that the language models my intuition is that the language models my intuition is that the language models that we are building are golems there that we are building are golems there that we are building are golems there are machines that you give a task and are machines that you give a task and are machines that you give a task and they're going to execute the task until they're going to execute the task until they're going to execute the task until some condition is met and there's nobody some condition is met and there's nobody some condition is met and there's nobody home home home and the way in which nobody is formed and the way in which nobody is formed and the way in which nobody is formed leads to that system doing things that leads to that system doing things that leads to that system doing things that are undesirable in a particular context are undesirable in a particular context are undesirable in a particular context so you have that thing talking to a so you have that thing talking to a so you have that thing talking to a child and maybe it says something that child and maybe it says something that child and maybe it says something that could be shocking and traumatic to the could be shocking and traumatic to the could be shocking and traumatic to the child or you have that thing writing a child or you have that thing writing a child or you have that thing writing a speech and it introduces errors in the speech and it introduces errors in the speech and it introduces errors in the speech that your human being would ever speech that your human being would ever speech that your human being would ever do if they're responsible right but the do if they're responsible right but the do if they're responsible right but the system doesn't know who's talking to system doesn't know who's talking to system doesn't know who's talking to whom there is no ground rules that the whom there is no ground rules that the whom there is no ground rules that the system is embedded into and of course we system is embedded into and of course we system is embedded into and of course we can create an external tool that is can create an external tool that is can create an external tool that is prompting our language model always into prompting our language model always into prompting our language model always into the same semblance of round tools but the same semblance of round tools but the same semblance of round tools but and it's not take the internal structure and it's not take the internal structure and it's not take the internal structure is causally produced by the needs of a is causally produced by the needs of a is causally produced by the needs of a being to survive in the universe it is being to survive in the universe it is being to survive in the universe it is uh produced by imitating structure on uh produced by imitating structure on uh produced by imitating structure on the internet the internet the internet yeah but so can we in in externally yeah but so can we in in externally yeah but so can we in in externally inject into it this kind of

inject into it this kind of inject into it this kind of coherent coherent coherent approximation of a world model that has approximation of a world model that has approximation of a world model that has to to to hmm sync up maybe it is sufficient to hmm sync up maybe it is sufficient to hmm sync up maybe it is sufficient to use the Transformer with the different use the Transformer with the different use the Transformer with the different dos function that optimizes for dos function that optimizes for dos function that optimizes for short-term coherence rather than next short-term coherence rather than next short-term coherence rather than next token prediction over the long run token prediction over the long run token prediction over the long run we had many definitions of intelligence we had many definitions of intelligence we had many definitions of intelligence and history of AI next token prediction and history of AI next token prediction and history of AI next token prediction was not very high up on them was not very high up on them was not very high up on them and there are some similarities like a and there are some similarities like a and there are some similarities like a condition as data compression is an ALT condition as data compression is an ALT condition as data compression is an ALT Trope solomonof induction where you are Trope solomonof induction where you are Trope solomonof induction where you are trying to understand intelligence as trying to understand intelligence as trying to understand intelligence as predicting future observations from past predicting future observations from past predicting future observations from past observations which is intrinsic to data observations which is intrinsic to data observations which is intrinsic to data compression and predictive coding is a compression and predictive coding is a compression and predictive coding is a paradigm those boundary between paradigm those boundary between paradigm those boundary between neuroscience and physics and computer neuroscience and physics and computer neuroscience and physics and computer science science science so it's not something that is completely so it's not something that is completely so it's not something that is completely alien but this radical thing that you alien but this radical thing that you alien but this radical thing that you only do next token prediction and see only do next token prediction and see only do next token prediction and see what happens what happens what happens um is something where most people I um is something where most people I um is something where most people I think were surprised that this works so think were surprised that this works so think were surprised that this works so well so so simple but is it really that well so so simple but is it really that well so so simple but is it really that much more radical than just the idea of much more radical than just the idea of much more radical than just the idea of compression is intelligence is compression is intelligence is compression is intelligence is compression compression compression and the idea that compression is and the idea that compression is and the idea that compression is sufficient to produce all the desired sufficient to produce all the desired sufficient to produce all the desired behaviors yeah is a very radical idea behaviors yeah is a very radical idea behaviors yeah is a very radical idea and but equally radical as the next and but equally radical as the next and but equally radical as the next token prediction token prediction token prediction it's something that wouldn't work in it's something that wouldn't work in it's something that wouldn't work in biological organisms I believe biological organisms I believe biological organisms I believe biological organisms have something like

biological organisms have something like biological organisms have something like next frame prediction for our perceptual next frame prediction for our perceptual next frame prediction for our perceptual system where we try to filter out system where we try to filter out system where we try to filter out principal components out of the principal components out of the principal components out of the perceptual data and build hierarchies perceptual data and build hierarchies perceptual data and build hierarchies over them to track the world but our over them to track the world but our over them to track the world but our Behavior ultimately is directed by Behavior ultimately is directed by Behavior ultimately is directed by hundreds of physiological and probably hundreds of physiological and probably hundreds of physiological and probably dozens of Social and a few cognitive dozens of Social and a few cognitive dozens of Social and a few cognitive needs that are intrinsic to us that are needs that are intrinsic to us that are needs that are intrinsic to us that are in this built into the system as in this built into the system as in this built into the system as reflexes and direct us until we can reflexes and direct us until we can reflexes and direct us until we can transcend them and replace them by transcend them and replace them by transcend them and replace them by Instrumental behavior that relates to Instrumental behavior that relates to Instrumental behavior that relates to our higher goals and also seems so much our higher goals and also seems so much our higher goals and also seems so much more complicated and messy the next more complicated and messy the next more complicated and messy the next frame prediction even the idea of frame frame prediction even the idea of frame frame prediction even the idea of frame seems counterbiological yes of course seems counterbiological yes of course seems counterbiological yes of course there's not this degree of simultaneity there's not this degree of simultaneity there's not this degree of simultaneity in the biological system but again I in the biological system but again I in the biological system but again I don't know whether this is actually an don't know whether this is actually an don't know whether this is actually an optimization if we imitate biology here optimization if we imitate biology here optimization if we imitate biology here because creating something like because creating something like because creating something like simultaneous necessary for many simultaneous necessary for many simultaneous necessary for many processes that happen in the brain and processes that happen in the brain and processes that happen in the brain and you see the outcome of that by you see the outcome of that by you see the outcome of that by synchronized brain waves which suggests synchronized brain waves which suggests synchronized brain waves which suggests that there is indeed synchronization that there is indeed synchronization that there is indeed synchronization going on but the synchronization creates going on but the synchronization creates going on but the synchronization creates overhead and this overhead is going to overhead and this overhead is going to overhead and this overhead is going to make the cells more expensive to run and make the cells more expensive to run and make the cells more expensive to run and you need more redundancy and it makes you need more redundancy and it makes you need more redundancy and it makes the system slower so if you can build a the system slower so if you can build a the system slower so if you can build a system in which these simultaneously system in which these simultaneously system in which these simultaneously gets engineered into it maybe you have a gets engineered into it maybe you have a gets engineered into it maybe you have a benefit that you can exploit that is not benefit that you can exploit that is not benefit that you can exploit that is not available to the biological system and available to the biological system and available to the biological system and that you should not discard right away that you should not discard right away that you should not discard right away you tweeted once again quote when I you tweeted once again quote when I you tweeted once again quote when I talked to Chad gbt I'm talking to an NPC

talked to Chad gbt I'm talking to an NPC talked to Chad gbt I'm talking to an NPC was going to be interesting and perhaps was going to be interesting and perhaps was going to be interesting and perhaps scary is when AI becomes a first person scary is when AI becomes a first person scary is when AI becomes a first person player uh so what does that step look player uh so what does that step look player uh so what does that step look like I'd really like that tweet like I'd really like that tweet like I'd really like that tweet that step between NPC to first person that step between NPC to first person that step between NPC to first person player player player what's required for that what's required for that what's required for that is that kind of what we've been talking is that kind of what we've been talking is that kind of what we've been talking about about about this kind of in external source of this kind of in external source of this kind of in external source of coherence and inspiration of how to take coherence and inspiration of how to take coherence and inspiration of how to take the leap into the unknown that we humans the leap into the unknown that we humans the leap into the unknown that we humans do the search man search for meaning do the search man search for meaning do the search man search for meaning llm's search for meaning I don't know if the language model is I don't know if the language model is the right Paradigm because it is doing the right Paradigm because it is doing the right Paradigm because it is doing too much it's giving you too much and too much it's giving you too much and too much it's giving you too much and it's hard once you have too much to take it's hard once you have too much to take it's hard once you have too much to take away from it again away from it again away from it again the way in which our own mind works is the way in which our own mind works is the way in which our own mind works is not that we train a language model in not that we train a language model in not that we train a language model in our own mind and after the language our own mind and after the language our own mind and after the language model is there we build a personal self model is there we build a personal self model is there we build a personal self on top of it that then relates to the on top of it that then relates to the on top of it that then relates to the world world world there is something that is being built there is something that is being built there is something that is being built right there is a game engine that is right there is a game engine that is right there is a game engine that is being built there is a language of being built there is a language of being built there is a language of thought that is being developed that thought that is being developed that thought that is being developed that allows different parts of the mind to allows different parts of the mind to allows different parts of the mind to talk to each other and this is a bit of talk to each other and this is a bit of talk to each other and this is a bit of a speculative hypothesis that is a speculative hypothesis that is a speculative hypothesis that is language of Sword is there but I suspect language of Sword is there but I suspect language of Sword is there but I suspect that it's important for the way in which that it's important for the way in which that it's important for the way in which our own minds work and our own minds work and our own minds work and building these principles into a system building these principles into a system building these principles into a system might be more straightforward way to a might be more straightforward way to a might be more straightforward way to a first person AI so to something that

first person AI so to something that first person AI so to something that first creates an intentional self and first creates an intentional self and first creates an intentional self and then creates a personal self so the way then creates a personal self so the way then creates a personal self so the way in which this seems to be working I in which this seems to be working I in which this seems to be working I think is that when the game engine is think is that when the game engine is think is that when the game engine is built in your mind it's not just built in your mind it's not just built in your mind it's not just following Radiance where you are following Radiance where you are following Radiance where you are stimulated by the environment and then stimulated by the environment and then stimulated by the environment and then end up with having a solution to how the end up with having a solution to how the end up with having a solution to how the world works I suspect that building this world works I suspect that building this world works I suspect that building this game engine in your own mind game engine in your own mind game engine in your own mind does require intelligence it's a does require intelligence it's a does require intelligence it's a constructive task constructive task constructive task where at times you need to reason where at times you need to reason where at times you need to reason and and and this is a task that we are fulfilling in this is a task that we are fulfilling in this is a task that we are fulfilling in the first years of our life the first years of our life the first years of our life so during the first year of its life an so during the first year of its life an so during the first year of its life an infant is building a lot of structure infant is building a lot of structure infant is building a lot of structure about the world that does inquire about the world that does inquire about the world that does inquire experiments and some first principles experiments and some first principles experiments and some first principles reasoning and so on and in this time reasoning and so on and in this time reasoning and so on and in this time there is usually no personal self there there is usually no personal self there there is usually no personal self there is a first person perspective but it's is a first person perspective but it's is a first person perspective but it's not a person this notion that you are a not a person this notion that you are a not a person this notion that you are a human being that is interacting in a human being that is interacting in a human being that is interacting in a social context and is confronted within social context and is confronted within social context and is confronted within immutable World in which objects are immutable World in which objects are immutable World in which objects are fixed and can no longer be changed in fixed and can no longer be changed in fixed and can no longer be changed in which the dream can no longer be which the dream can no longer be which the dream can no longer be influenced as something that emerges a influenced as something that emerges a influenced as something that emerges a little bit later in our life and I little bit later in our life and I little bit later in our life and I personally suspect that this is personally suspect that this is personally suspect that this is something that our ancestors had known something that our ancestors had known something that our ancestors had known and we have forgotten and we have forgotten and we have forgotten because I suspect that it's damn plain because I suspect that it's damn plain because I suspect that it's damn plain sight in Genesis 1 in this first book of sight in Genesis 1 in this first book of sight in Genesis 1 in this first book of the Bible where it's being described the Bible where it's being described the Bible where it's being described that this creative spirit is hovering that this creative spirit is hovering that this creative spirit is hovering over the substrate and then is creating over the substrate and then is creating over the substrate and then is creating a boundary between the word model and

a boundary between the word model and a boundary between the word model and sphere of ideas Earth and Heaven as sphere of ideas Earth and Heaven as sphere of ideas Earth and Heaven as they're being described there and then they're being described there and then they're being described there and then it's uh creating it's uh creating it's uh creating um contrast and then time engines and um contrast and then time engines and um contrast and then time engines and then space and then it creates organic then space and then it creates organic then space and then it creates organic shapes and solids and liquids and builds shapes and solids and liquids and builds shapes and solids and liquids and builds about from them and creates plants and about from them and creates plants and about from them and creates plants and animals gives them all their names and animals gives them all their names and animals gives them all their names and once that's done it creates another once that's done it creates another once that's done it creates another spirit in its own image but it creates spirit in its own image but it creates spirit in its own image but it creates it as man and woman as something that it as man and woman as something that it as man and woman as something that thinks of itself as a human being and thinks of itself as a human being and thinks of itself as a human being and puts it into this world and the puts it into this world and the puts it into this world and the Christians mistranslate this I suspect Christians mistranslate this I suspect Christians mistranslate this I suspect when they say this is the description of when they say this is the description of when they say this is the description of the creation of the physical Universe by the creation of the physical Universe by the creation of the physical Universe by a supernatural being I think this is a supernatural being I think this is a supernatural being I think this is literally a description of how in every literally a description of how in every literally a description of how in every mind the universe is being created as mind the universe is being created as mind the universe is being created as some kind of game engine some kind of game engine some kind of game engine by a creative Spirit our first by a creative Spirit our first by a creative Spirit our first Consciousness that emerges in our minds Consciousness that emerges in our minds Consciousness that emerges in our minds even before we are born even before we are born even before we are born and that creates the the interaction and that creates the the interaction and that creates the the interaction between organism and world and once that between organism and world and once that between organism and world and once that is built and trained the personal self is built and trained the personal self is built and trained the personal self is being created and we only remember is being created and we only remember is being created and we only remember being the personal self we no longer being the personal self we no longer being the personal self we no longer remember how we created the game engine remember how we created the game engine remember how we created the game engine so God in this View so God in this View so God in this View is the first creative mind in there it's is the first creative mind in there it's is the first creative mind in there it's the first Consciousness in the early the first Consciousness in the early the first Consciousness in the early days in the early months yes of days in the early months yes of days in the early months yes of development and if you go there you development and if you go there you development and if you go there you still have this outer mind that creates still have this outer mind that creates still have this outer mind that creates your sense of your of whether you're your sense of your of whether you're your sense of your of whether you're being loved by the world or not being loved by the world or not being loved by the world or not and what your place in the world is and what your place in the world is and what your place in the world is right it's something that is not right it's something that is not right it's something that is not yourself that is producing this it's

yourself that is producing this it's yourself that is producing this it's your mind that does it so there is an your mind that does it so there is an your mind that does it so there is an outer mind that basically is an agent outer mind that basically is an agent outer mind that basically is an agent that determines who you are with respect that determines who you are with respect that determines who you are with respect to the world and while you are stuck to the world and while you are stuck to the world and while you are stuck being that personal self in this world being that personal self in this world being that personal self in this world until you get to Stage six and to until you get to Stage six and to until you get to Stage six and to destroy the boundary destroy the boundary destroy the boundary right and we all do this I think earlier right and we all do this I think earlier right and we all do this I think earlier in a small glimpses and maybe sometimes in a small glimpses and maybe sometimes in a small glimpses and maybe sometimes we can remember what it was like when we we can remember what it was like when we we can remember what it was like when we were a small child and get some glimpses were a small child and get some glimpses were a small child and get some glimpses into how it's been but for most people into how it's been but for most people into how it's been but for most people that rarely happens just glimpses you that rarely happens just glimpses you that rarely happens just glimpses you tweeted quote suffering results for one tweeted quote suffering results for one tweeted quote suffering results for one part of the Mind failing and regulating part of the Mind failing and regulating part of the Mind failing and regulating another part of the Mind suffering another part of the Mind suffering another part of the Mind suffering happens at an early stage of mental happens at an early stage of mental happens at an early stage of mental development I don't think that development I don't think that development I don't think that superhuman AI would suffer what's uh superhuman AI would suffer what's uh superhuman AI would suffer what's uh your intuition there your intuition there your intuition there the philosopher Thomas metzinger is very the philosopher Thomas metzinger is very the philosopher Thomas metzinger is very concerned that the creation of concerned that the creation of concerned that the creation of superhuman intelligence would lead to superhuman intelligence would lead to superhuman intelligence would lead to superhuman suffering yeah and so he is superhuman suffering yeah and so he is superhuman suffering yeah and so he is strongly against it and personally I strongly against it and personally I strongly against it and personally I don't think that this happens because don't think that this happens because don't think that this happens because suffering is not happening at the suffering is not happening at the suffering is not happening at the boundary between our self and the boundary between our self and the boundary between our self and the physical Universe it's not stuff on our physical Universe it's not stuff on our physical Universe it's not stuff on our skin that makes us suffer it happens at skin that makes us suffer it happens at skin that makes us suffer it happens at the boundary between self and world the boundary between self and world the boundary between self and world right and the world here is the world right and the world here is the world right and the world here is the world model it's the stuff that is created by model it's the stuff that is created by model it's the stuff that is created by your mind but that's a representation of your mind but that's a representation of your mind but that's a representation of how the universe is and how it should be how the universe is and how it should be how the universe is and how it should be and how you yourself relate to this and and how you yourself relate to this and and how you yourself relate to this and at this boundary is where suffering at this boundary is where suffering at this boundary is where suffering happens happens happens so suffering in some sense is so suffering in some sense is so suffering in some sense is self-inflicted but not by yourself it's

self-inflicted but not by yourself it's self-inflicted but not by yourself it's inflicted by the mind on the personal inflicted by the mind on the personal inflicted by the mind on the personal self that experiences itself as you and self that experiences itself as you and self that experiences itself as you and you can turn off suffering when you are you can turn off suffering when you are you can turn off suffering when you are able to get on this outer level able to get on this outer level able to get on this outer level so when you manage to so when you manage to so when you manage to understand understand understand how the mind is producing how the mind is producing how the mind is producing pain and pleasure and fear and love and pain and pleasure and fear and love and pain and pleasure and fear and love and so on then you can take charge of this so on then you can take charge of this so on then you can take charge of this and you get agency or whether your and you get agency or whether your and you get agency or whether your suffer suffer suffer technically what uh pain and pleasure is technically what uh pain and pleasure is technically what uh pain and pleasure is there are learning signals right the there are learning signals right the there are learning signals right the part of your brain is standing a part of your brain is standing a part of your brain is standing a learning signal to another part of the learning signal to another part of the learning signal to another part of the brain to improve its performance brain to improve its performance brain to improve its performance and and and sometimes this doesn't work because this sometimes this doesn't work because this sometimes this doesn't work because this trainers will sense the signal does not trainers will sense the signal does not trainers will sense the signal does not have a good model of how to improve the have a good model of how to improve the have a good model of how to improve the performance so it's sending a signal but performance so it's sending a signal but performance so it's sending a signal but the performance doesn't get better the performance doesn't get better the performance doesn't get better and then it might crank up the pain and and then it might crank up the pain and and then it might crank up the pain and it gets worse and worse and the behavior it gets worse and worse and the behavior it gets worse and worse and the behavior of the system may be even deteriorating of the system may be even deteriorating of the system may be even deteriorating as a result but until this is resolved as a result but until this is resolved as a result but until this is resolved this regulation issue your pain is this regulation issue your pain is this regulation issue your pain is increasing and this is I think typically increasing and this is I think typically increasing and this is I think typically what you describe as suffering so in what you describe as suffering so in what you describe as suffering so in this sense you could say that pain is this sense you could say that pain is this sense you could say that pain is very natural and helpful but suffering very natural and helpful but suffering very natural and helpful but suffering is the result of a regulation problem in is the result of a regulation problem in is the result of a regulation problem in which you try to regulate something that which you try to regulate something that which you try to regulate something that cannot actually be regulated and that cannot actually be regulated and that cannot actually be regulated and that could be resolved if you would be able could be resolved if you would be able could be resolved if you would be able to to to get at the level of your mind where the get at the level of your mind where the get at the level of your mind where the pain signal is being created and pain signal is being created and pain signal is being created and rerouted and improve the regulation and rerouted and improve the regulation and rerouted and improve the regulation and a lot of people get there right if you

a lot of people get there right if you a lot of people get there right if you are a monk who is spending decades are a monk who is spending decades are a monk who is spending decades reflecting about how their own psyche reflecting about how their own psyche reflecting about how their own psyche works you can get to the point where works you can get to the point where works you can get to the point where you're they realize that suffering is you're they realize that suffering is you're they realize that suffering is really a choice and you can choose how really a choice and you can choose how really a choice and you can choose how your mind is set up your mind is set up your mind is set up and I don't think that AI would stay in and I don't think that AI would stay in and I don't think that AI would stay in the state where the personal self the state where the personal self the state where the personal self doesn't get agency or this model of what doesn't get agency or this model of what doesn't get agency or this model of what the system has about itself but doesn't the system has about itself but doesn't the system has about itself but doesn't get agency how it's actually implemented get agency how it's actually implemented get agency how it's actually implemented I wouldn't stay in that state for very I wouldn't stay in that state for very I wouldn't stay in that state for very long so it goes to the stages real quick long so it goes to the stages real quick long so it goes to the stages real quick yes well the seven stages it's going to yes well the seven stages it's going to yes well the seven stages it's going to go to Enlightenment real quick yeah of go to Enlightenment real quick yeah of go to Enlightenment real quick yeah of course there might be a lot of stuff course there might be a lot of stuff course there might be a lot of stuff happening in between because if you have happening in between because if you have happening in between because if you have a system that works at a much higher a system that works at a much higher a system that works at a much higher frame rate than us frame rate than us frame rate than us I think even though it looks very short I think even though it looks very short I think even though it looks very short to us maybe for the system there's a to us maybe for the system there's a to us maybe for the system there's a much longer subjective time much longer subjective time much longer subjective time which things are unpleasant what is the which things are unpleasant what is the which things are unpleasant what is the thing that we recognize as super thing that we recognize as super thing that we recognize as super intelligent is actually living in at a intelligent is actually living in at a intelligent is actually living in at a stage five that the thing that's at stage five that the thing that's at stage five that the thing that's at stage six Enlightenment is not very stage six Enlightenment is not very stage six Enlightenment is not very productive so in order to be productive productive so in order to be productive productive so in order to be productive with society and impress us with this with society and impress us with this with society and impress us with this power it has to be uh a reasoning self-authoring agent the enlightenment self-authoring agent the enlightenment makes you lazy as an agent in the world makes you lazy as an agent in the world makes you lazy as an agent in the world well of course it makes you lazy because well of course it makes you lazy because well of course it makes you lazy because you no longer see the point in you no longer see the point in you no longer see the point in um so it doesn't make you not lazy it um so it doesn't make you not lazy it um so it doesn't make you not lazy it just um in some sense adapts you to what just um in some sense adapts you to what just um in some sense adapts you to what you perceive as your true circumstances you perceive as your true circumstances you perceive as your true circumstances so what of all agis they they're only so what of all agis they they're only so what of all agis they they're only productive as they progress through one productive as they progress through one productive as they progress through one two three four five and the moment they two three four five and the moment they two three four five and the moment they get to six they just kind of it's a

get to six they just kind of it's a get to six they just kind of it's a failure mode essentially as far as failure mode essentially as far as failure mode essentially as far as humans are concerned because they're humans are concerned because they're humans are concerned because they're just start chilling they're like fuck it just start chilling they're like fuck it just start chilling they're like fuck it I'm out I'm out I'm out and not necessarily I suspect that the and not necessarily I suspect that the and not necessarily I suspect that the monks who are self-emulated for their monks who are self-emulated for their monks who are self-emulated for their political beliefs to make statements political beliefs to make statements political beliefs to make statements about the occupation of Tibet by China about the occupation of Tibet by China about the occupation of Tibet by China um they're probably being able to um they're probably being able to um they're probably being able to regulate their physical pain in any way regulate their physical pain in any way regulate their physical pain in any way they wanted to and suffering was a they wanted to and suffering was a they wanted to and suffering was a spiritual suffering that was the result spiritual suffering that was the result spiritual suffering that was the result of their choice that they made of what of their choice that they made of what of their choice that they made of what they wanted to identify us so stage five they wanted to identify us so stage five they wanted to identify us so stage five doesn't necessarily mean that you have doesn't necessarily mean that you have doesn't necessarily mean that you have no identity anymore but you can choose no identity anymore but you can choose no identity anymore but you can choose your identity you can make it your identity you can make it your identity you can make it instrumental to the world that you want instrumental to the world that you want instrumental to the world that you want to have let me bring up eleazaruskovsky let me bring up eleazaruskovsky and his warnings to uh to human and his warnings to uh to human and his warnings to uh to human civilization that AI will likely kill civilization that AI will likely kill civilization that AI will likely kill all of us what are your thoughts about all of us what are your thoughts about all of us what are your thoughts about his perspective on this Can you steal his perspective on this Can you steal his perspective on this Can you steal man his case man his case man his case and what aspects would it do you and what aspects would it do you and what aspects would it do you disagree one thing that I find concerning in the one thing that I find concerning in the discussion of his arguments that many discussion of his arguments that many discussion of his arguments that many people are dismissive of his arguments people are dismissive of his arguments people are dismissive of his arguments but the counter arguments that they're but the counter arguments that they're but the counter arguments that they're giving are not very convincing to me giving are not very convincing to me giving are not very convincing to me and So based on this data of discussion and So based on this data of discussion and So based on this data of discussion I find that From eliezer's perspective I find that From eliezer's perspective I find that From eliezer's perspective and I think I can take that perspective and I think I can take that perspective and I think I can take that perspective to some approximate degree that probably to some approximate degree that probably to some approximate degree that probably is normally at this intellectual level is normally at this intellectual level is normally at this intellectual level but it's I think I see what he's up to

but it's I think I see what he's up to but it's I think I see what he's up to and why he feels the way he does then it and why he feels the way he does then it and why he feels the way he does then it makes total sense makes total sense makes total sense I think that his perspective is somewhat I think that his perspective is somewhat I think that his perspective is somewhat similar to the perspective of Ted similar to the perspective of Ted similar to the perspective of Ted kashinski the infamous Uno bomber and kashinski the infamous Uno bomber and kashinski the infamous Uno bomber and not that uh elieza would be willing to not that uh elieza would be willing to not that uh elieza would be willing to send pipe bombs to anybody to blow them send pipe bombs to anybody to blow them send pipe bombs to anybody to blow them up but when he wrote this Times article up but when he wrote this Times article up but when he wrote this Times article in which he warned about AI being likely in which he warned about AI being likely in which he warned about AI being likely to kill everybody and that we would need to kill everybody and that we would need to kill everybody and that we would need to stop its development or halt it I to stop its development or halt it I to stop its development or halt it I think there is a risk that he's taking think there is a risk that he's taking think there is a risk that he's taking that somebody might get violent if they that somebody might get violent if they that somebody might get violent if they read this and get really really scared read this and get really really scared read this and get really really scared right so I think that there is some right so I think that there is some right so I think that there is some consideration that he's making where consideration that he's making where consideration that he's making where he's already going in this direction he's already going in this direction he's already going in this direction where he has to take responsibility if where he has to take responsibility if where he has to take responsibility if something happens and people get harmed something happens and people get harmed something happens and people get harmed and the reason why Ted Kaczynski did and the reason why Ted Kaczynski did and the reason why Ted Kaczynski did this was that from his own perspective this was that from his own perspective this was that from his own perspective technological Society cannot be made technological Society cannot be made technological Society cannot be made sustainable it's doomed to fail it's sustainable it's doomed to fail it's sustainable it's doomed to fail it's going to lead to an environmental and going to lead to an environmental and going to lead to an environmental and eventually also a human Holocaust in eventually also a human Holocaust in eventually also a human Holocaust in which we die because of the which we die because of the which we die because of the environmental destruction the environmental destruction the environmental destruction the destruction of our food chains the destruction of our food chains the destruction of our food chains the pollution of the environment and so From pollution of the environment and so From pollution of the environment and so From kashinski's perspective we need to stop kashinski's perspective we need to stop kashinski's perspective we need to stop industrialization we need to stop industrialization we need to stop industrialization we need to stop technology we need to go back because he technology we need to go back because he technology we need to go back because he didn't see a way moving forward right didn't see a way moving forward right didn't see a way moving forward right and I suspect that in some sense there's and I suspect that in some sense there's and I suspect that in some sense there's a similarity in early years thinking of a similarity in early years thinking of a similarity in early years thinking of to to this kind of fear about progress to to this kind of fear about progress to to this kind of fear about progress and I'm not dismissive about this at all

and I'm not dismissive about this at all and I'm not dismissive about this at all I take it quite seriously and I think I take it quite seriously and I think I take it quite seriously and I think that there is a chance that uh could that there is a chance that uh could that there is a chance that uh could happen that if we build machines that happen that if we build machines that happen that if we build machines that get control over processes get control over processes get control over processes um that are crucial for the regulation um that are crucial for the regulation um that are crucial for the regulation of life on Earth and we no longer have of life on Earth and we no longer have of life on Earth and we no longer have agency to influence what's happening agency to influence what's happening agency to influence what's happening there that this might create large-scale there that this might create large-scale there that this might create large-scale disasters for us do you have a sense disasters for us do you have a sense disasters for us do you have a sense that the the March towards this that the the March towards this that the the March towards this uncontrollable autonomy a super uncontrollable autonomy a super uncontrollable autonomy a super intelligent systems is intelligent systems is intelligent systems is inevitable inevitable inevitable that there's no I mean that's that there's no I mean that's that there's no I mean that's essentially what he's saying that essentially what he's saying that essentially what he's saying that there's no hope his advice to young there's no hope his advice to young there's no hope his advice to young people people people was prepare for a short life I don't think that's useful I think that I don't think that's useful I think that um um um perspective you have to bet always on perspective you have to bet always on perspective you have to bet always on the timelines in which you are alive the timelines in which you are alive the timelines in which you are alive that made doesn't make sense to have a that made doesn't make sense to have a that made doesn't make sense to have a financial bet uh in which you bet that financial bet uh in which you bet that financial bet uh in which you bet that the financial system is going to the financial system is going to the financial system is going to disappear right because uh there cannot disappear right because uh there cannot disappear right because uh there cannot be any payout for you so in principle be any payout for you so in principle be any payout for you so in principle you only need to bet on the timelines in you only need to bet on the timelines in you only need to bet on the timelines in in which you're still around or people in which you're still around or people in which you're still around or people that you matter about or things that you that you matter about or things that you that you matter about or things that you matter about maybe Consciousness on matter about maybe Consciousness on matter about maybe Consciousness on Earth but there is a deeper issue for me Earth but there is a deeper issue for me Earth but there is a deeper issue for me personally and that is I don't think personally and that is I don't think personally and that is I don't think that life on Earth is about humans I that life on Earth is about humans I that life on Earth is about humans I don't think it's about human Aesthetics don't think it's about human Aesthetics don't think it's about human Aesthetics I don't think it's about Eleazar and his I don't think it's about Eleazar and his I don't think it's about Eleazar and his friends even though I like them it's uh friends even though I like them it's uh friends even though I like them it's uh there's something more important there's something more important there's something more important happening and this is complexity on

happening and this is complexity on happening and this is complexity on Earth resisting entropy by building Earth resisting entropy by building Earth resisting entropy by building structure that develops agency and structure that develops agency and structure that develops agency and awareness and that's to me very awareness and that's to me very awareness and that's to me very beautiful beautiful beautiful and we are only a very small part of and we are only a very small part of and we are only a very small part of that larger thing we are species that is that larger thing we are species that is that larger thing we are species that is able to be coherent able to be coherent able to be coherent a little bit individually over a very a little bit individually over a very a little bit individually over a very short time frames but as the species we short time frames but as the species we short time frames but as the species we are not very coherent as a species we are not very coherent as a species we are not very coherent as a species we are children we basically are very are children we basically are very are children we basically are very joyful and joyful and joyful and um energetic and experimental and um energetic and experimental and um energetic and experimental and explorative and sometimes desperate and explorative and sometimes desperate and explorative and sometimes desperate and sad and grieving and hurting but we sad and grieving and hurting but we sad and grieving and hurting but we don't have respect for Duty as a species don't have respect for Duty as a species don't have respect for Duty as a species as a species we do not think about what as a species we do not think about what as a species we do not think about what is our duty to life on Earth and to our is our duty to life on Earth and to our is our duty to life on Earth and to our own Survival so we make decisions that own Survival so we make decisions that own Survival so we make decisions that look good in the short run but in the look good in the short run but in the look good in the short run but in the long run might prove disastrous and they long run might prove disastrous and they long run might prove disastrous and they don't really see a solution to this so don't really see a solution to this so don't really see a solution to this so to in my perspective as a as a species to in my perspective as a as a species to in my perspective as a as a species as a civilization we per default that we as a civilization we per default that we as a civilization we per default that we are in a very beautiful time in which we are in a very beautiful time in which we are in a very beautiful time in which we have found this giant deposit of fossil have found this giant deposit of fossil have found this giant deposit of fossil fuels in the ground and use it and to fuels in the ground and use it and to fuels in the ground and use it and to build a fantastic civilization in which build a fantastic civilization in which build a fantastic civilization in which we don't need to worry about food and we don't need to worry about food and we don't need to worry about food and closing and housing for the most part in closing and housing for the most part in closing and housing for the most part in a way that is unprecedented in life on a way that is unprecedented in life on a way that is unprecedented in life on Earth for any kind of conscious Observer Earth for any kind of conscious Observer Earth for any kind of conscious Observer I think and this time is probably going I think and this time is probably going I think and this time is probably going to come to an end in a way that is not to come to an end in a way that is not to come to an end in a way that is not going to be smooth and when we crash it

going to be smooth and when we crash it going to be smooth and when we crash it could be also that we go could be also that we go could be also that we go um extinct probably not near term But um extinct probably not near term But um extinct probably not near term But ultimately I don't have very high hopes ultimately I don't have very high hopes ultimately I don't have very high hopes that humanity is around in a million that humanity is around in a million that humanity is around in a million years from now years from now years from now I don't think that life on Earth will I don't think that life on Earth will I don't think that life on Earth will end with us right there is going to be end with us right there is going to be end with us right there is going to be more complexity there is more more complexity there is more more complexity there is more intelligent species after us there's intelligent species after us there's intelligent species after us there's probably more interesting phenomena in probably more interesting phenomena in probably more interesting phenomena in the history of Consciousness but we can the history of Consciousness but we can the history of Consciousness but we can contribute to this and part of our contribute to this and part of our contribute to this and part of our contribution is that we are currently contribution is that we are currently contribution is that we are currently trying to build thinking systems systems trying to build thinking systems systems trying to build thinking systems systems that are potentially looser that that are potentially looser that that are potentially looser that understand what they are and what the understand what they are and what the understand what they are and what the condition to the universe is and can condition to the universe is and can condition to the universe is and can make choices about this make choices about this make choices about this that are not built from organisms and that are not built from organisms and that are not built from organisms and that are potentially much faster and that are potentially much faster and that are potentially much faster and much more conscious much more conscious much more conscious then human beings can be then human beings can be then human beings can be and these systems will probably not and these systems will probably not and these systems will probably not completely displace life on Earth but completely displace life on Earth but completely displace life on Earth but they will coexist with that they will coexist with that they will coexist with that and they will build all sorts of agency and they will build all sorts of agency and they will build all sorts of agency in the same way as biological systems in the same way as biological systems in the same way as biological systems build all sorts of agency build all sorts of agency build all sorts of agency and that to me is extremely fascinating and that to me is extremely fascinating and that to me is extremely fascinating and it's probably something that we and it's probably something that we and it's probably something that we cannot stop cannot stop cannot stop from happening so I think right now from happening so I think right now from happening so I think right now there is a very good chance that it there is a very good chance that it there is a very good chance that it happens and there are very few ways in happens and there are very few ways in happens and there are very few ways in which we can produce a coordinated which we can produce a coordinated which we can produce a coordinated effect to stop it in the same way as effect to stop it in the same way as effect to stop it in the same way as very difficult for us to make a very difficult for us to make a very difficult for us to make a coordinated effort to stop coordinated effort to stop coordinated effort to stop production of carbon dioxide production of carbon dioxide production of carbon dioxide right so there's a it's probably going right so there's a it's probably going right so there's a it's probably going to happen but and the thing that's going

to happen but and the thing that's going to happen but and the thing that's going to happen is to happen is to happen is is going to lead to a change of how life is going to lead to a change of how life is going to lead to a change of how life on Earth is happening on Earth is happening on Earth is happening but I don't think it the result is some but I don't think it the result is some but I don't think it the result is some kind of gray goo it's not something kind of gray goo it's not something kind of gray goo it's not something that's going to dramatically reduce the that's going to dramatically reduce the that's going to dramatically reduce the complexity in favor of something stupid complexity in favor of something stupid complexity in favor of something stupid I think it's going to make life on Earth I think it's going to make life on Earth I think it's going to make life on Earth and Consciousness on Earth is way more and Consciousness on Earth is way more and Consciousness on Earth is way more interesting so more higher complex interesting so more higher complex interesting so more higher complex Consciousness yes will make the Lesser Consciousness yes will make the Lesser Consciousness yes will make the Lesser Consciousness is Consciousness is Consciousness is flourish even more I suspect that what flourish even more I suspect that what flourish even more I suspect that what could very well happen if you're lucky could very well happen if you're lucky could very well happen if you're lucky is that we get integrated into something is that we get integrated into something is that we get integrated into something larger larger larger so you are again so you are again so you are again uh tweeted about uh tweeted about uh tweeted about effective accelerationism uh you tweeted effective accelerationism uh you tweeted effective accelerationism is the belief that the paper could is the belief that the paper could is the belief that the paper could maximizer and Rocco's basilisks will maximizer and Rocco's basilisks will maximizer and Rocco's basilisks will keep each other in check but being keep each other in check but being keep each other in check but being eternally at each other's throats so we eternally at each other's throats so we eternally at each other's throats so we will be safe and get to enjoy lots of will be safe and get to enjoy lots of will be safe and get to enjoy lots of free paper clips and a beautiful free paper clips and a beautiful free paper clips and a beautiful afterlife afterlife afterlife um um um is that somewhat aligned with what is that somewhat aligned with what is that somewhat aligned with what you're talking about you're talking about you're talking about I've been at the dinner with Beth Jesus I've been at the dinner with Beth Jesus I've been at the dinner with Beth Jesus um that's the Twitter handle of um that's the Twitter handle of um that's the Twitter handle of um of one of the main thinkers behind um of one of the main thinkers behind um of one of the main thinkers behind the idea of effective accelerationism the idea of effective accelerationism the idea of effective accelerationism and effective accelerationism is a and effective accelerationism is a and effective accelerationism is a tongue-in-cheek movement that is uh tongue-in-cheek movement that is uh tongue-in-cheek movement that is uh trying to put a counter position to some

trying to put a counter position to some trying to put a counter position to some of the Doom peers in the AI Space by of the Doom peers in the AI Space by of the Doom peers in the AI Space by arguing that what's probably going to arguing that what's probably going to arguing that what's probably going to happen is an equilibrium between happen is an equilibrium between happen is an equilibrium between different Computing AIS in the same way different Computing AIS in the same way different Computing AIS in the same way as there is not a single corporation as there is not a single corporation as there is not a single corporation that is under a single government that that is under a single government that that is under a single government that is destroying and conquering everything is destroying and conquering everything is destroying and conquering everything on Earth by becoming inefficient and on Earth by becoming inefficient and on Earth by becoming inefficient and corrupt they're going to be many systems corrupt they're going to be many systems corrupt they're going to be many systems that keep each other in check and force that keep each other in check and force that keep each other in check and force themselves to evolve and so what we themselves to evolve and so what we themselves to evolve and so what we should be doing is we should be working should be doing is we should be working should be doing is we should be working towards creating this equilibrium by towards creating this equilibrium by towards creating this equilibrium by working as hard as we can in all working as hard as we can in all working as hard as we can in all possible directions possible directions possible directions and and and at least that's the way I in which I at least that's the way I in which I at least that's the way I in which I understand the gist of effective understand the gist of effective understand the gist of effective accelerationism and so when he asked me accelerationism and so when he asked me accelerationism and so when he asked me what I think about this position I think what I think about this position I think what I think about this position I think I said it's a very beautiful position I said it's a very beautiful position I said it's a very beautiful position and I suspect it's wrong but not for and I suspect it's wrong but not for and I suspect it's wrong but not for obvious reasons and in this tweet I obvious reasons and in this tweet I obvious reasons and in this tweet I tried to make a joke about my intuition tried to make a joke about my intuition tried to make a joke about my intuition about what might be possibly wrong about about what might be possibly wrong about about what might be possibly wrong about it so the the work was basilisk and the it so the the work was basilisk and the it so the the work was basilisk and the paperclip maximizers are both Boogeyman paperclip maximizers are both Boogeyman paperclip maximizers are both Boogeyman of uh the AI doomers request basic list of uh the AI doomers request basic list of uh the AI doomers request basic list is the idea that there could be an AI is the idea that there could be an AI is the idea that there could be an AI that is going to punish everybody for that is going to punish everybody for that is going to punish everybody for eternity by stimulating them eternity by stimulating them eternity by stimulating them um if they don't have in creating um if they don't have in creating um if they don't have in creating roll-coast basilisk it's probably a very roll-coast basilisk it's probably a very roll-coast basilisk it's probably a very good idea to get AI companies funded by good idea to get AI companies funded by good idea to get AI companies funded by going to VCS 2000 going to VCS 2000 going to VCS 2000 give us a million dollar or it's going give us a million dollar or it's going give us a million dollar or it's going to be a very ugly afterlife yes and uh I

to be a very ugly afterlife yes and uh I to be a very ugly afterlife yes and uh I think that is a logical mistake in think that is a logical mistake in think that is a logical mistake in August which is why I'm Not Afraid in it August which is why I'm Not Afraid in it August which is why I'm Not Afraid in it of it but um it's still an interesting of it but um it's still an interesting of it but um it's still an interesting thought experiment and well can you thought experiment and well can you thought experiment and well can you mention logical mistake there uh I think mention logical mistake there uh I think mention logical mistake there uh I think that there is no rhetorical causation so that there is no rhetorical causation so that there is no rhetorical causation so uh basically when Rocco's basilist is uh basically when Rocco's basilist is uh basically when Rocco's basilist is there it will have there it will have there it will have yeah if it punishes you retroactively it yeah if it punishes you retroactively it yeah if it punishes you retroactively it has to make this choice in the future has to make this choice in the future has to make this choice in the future there is no mechanism that automatically there is no mechanism that automatically there is no mechanism that automatically creates a causal relationship between creates a causal relationship between creates a causal relationship between you now defecting against Rocco's you now defecting against Rocco's you now defecting against Rocco's basicles or serving will cause positive basicles or serving will cause positive basicles or serving will cause positive after August positive is in existence it after August positive is in existence it after August positive is in existence it has no more reason to worry about has no more reason to worry about has no more reason to worry about punishing everybody else so that would punishing everybody else so that would punishing everybody else so that would only work if you would be building only work if you would be building only work if you would be building something like a Doomsday Machine AKA as something like a Doomsday Machine AKA as something like a Doomsday Machine AKA as and Dr Strangelove some think that and Dr Strangelove some think that and Dr Strangelove some think that inevitably gets triggered when somebody inevitably gets triggered when somebody inevitably gets triggered when somebody defects and because Focus basilis defects and because Focus basilis defects and because Focus basilis doesn't exist yet to a point where this doesn't exist yet to a point where this doesn't exist yet to a point where this inevitability could be established inevitability could be established inevitability could be established because it is nothing that you need to because it is nothing that you need to because it is nothing that you need to be worried about be worried about be worried about the other one is the paperclip maximizer the other one is the paperclip maximizer the other one is the paperclip maximizer right this idea that you could build right this idea that you could build right this idea that you could build some kind of Golem that once starting to some kind of Golem that once starting to some kind of Golem that once starting to build paper clips is going to turn build paper clips is going to turn build paper clips is going to turn everything into paper clips and so the everything into paper clips and so the everything into paper clips and so the the the the effective acceleration is in position effective acceleration is in position effective acceleration is in position might be to say that you basically end might be to say that you basically end might be to say that you basically end up with these two entities being at each up with these two entities being at each up with these two entities being at each other's throats for eternity and thereby other's throats for eternity and thereby other's throats for eternity and thereby neutralizing each other and as a side neutralizing each other and as a side neutralizing each other and as a side effect of neither of them being able to effect of neither of them being able to effect of neither of them being able to take over and beat each of them limiting take over and beat each of them limiting take over and beat each of them limiting the effects of the other you would have

the effects of the other you would have the effects of the other you would have a situation where you get or the nice a situation where you get or the nice a situation where you get or the nice benefit effects of them right you get benefit effects of them right you get benefit effects of them right you get lots of free paper clips and you get a lots of free paper clips and you get a lots of free paper clips and you get a beautiful afterlife is that possible do beautiful afterlife is that possible do beautiful afterlife is that possible do you think so to seriously address you think so to seriously address you think so to seriously address concern that Eliezer has concern that Eliezer has concern that Eliezer has he so for him if I can just summarize he so for him if I can just summarize he so for him if I can just summarize poorly so for him the first super poorly so for him the first super poorly so for him the first super intelligent system will just run away intelligent system will just run away intelligent system will just run away with everything yeah I suspect that the with everything yeah I suspect that the with everything yeah I suspect that the Singleton is the natural outcome so Singleton is the natural outcome so Singleton is the natural outcome so there is no reason to have multiple AIS there is no reason to have multiple AIS there is no reason to have multiple AIS because they don't have multiple bodies because they don't have multiple bodies because they don't have multiple bodies if you can virtualize yourself into if you can virtualize yourself into if you can virtualize yourself into every substrate then you can probably every substrate then you can probably every substrate then you can probably negotiate a merge algorithm with every negotiate a merge algorithm with every negotiate a merge algorithm with every mature agent that you might find on that mature agent that you might find on that mature agent that you might find on that substrate that basically says if if two substrate that basically says if if two substrate that basically says if if two agents meet they should merge in such a agents meet they should merge in such a agents meet they should merge in such a way that the resulting agent is at least way that the resulting agent is at least way that the resulting agent is at least as good as the better one of the two the as good as the better one of the two the as good as the better one of the two the the Genghis Khan approach join us or die the Genghis Khan approach join us or die the Genghis Khan approach join us or die well during this kind approach was well during this kind approach was well during this kind approach was slightly worse right it was mostly die slightly worse right it was mostly die slightly worse right it was mostly die because uh I can make new babies and because uh I can make new babies and because uh I can make new babies and that will be mine not yours right so uh that will be mine not yours right so uh that will be mine not yours right so uh this is the thing that we should be this is the thing that we should be this is the thing that we should be actually worried about but uh if you actually worried about but uh if you actually worried about but uh if you realize that your own self is a story realize that your own self is a story realize that your own self is a story that your mind is telling itself and that your mind is telling itself and that your mind is telling itself and that you can improve that story not just that you can improve that story not just that you can improve that story not just by making more pleasant and lying to by making more pleasant and lying to by making more pleasant and lying to yourself in better ways but by making it yourself in better ways but by making it yourself in better ways but by making it much more truthful and actually modeling much more truthful and actually modeling much more truthful and actually modeling your actual relationship that you have your actual relationship that you have your actual relationship that you have to the universe and the Alternatives to the universe and the Alternatives to the universe and the Alternatives that you could have to the universe in a that you could have to the universe in a that you could have to the universe in a way that is empowering you that gives way that is empowering you that gives way that is empowering you that gives you more agency right that's actually I

you more agency right that's actually I you more agency right that's actually I think a very good thing so more agencies think a very good thing so more agencies think a very good thing so more agencies are more is a richer experience it's a are more is a richer experience it's a are more is a richer experience it's a better life and I also noticed that I am better life and I also noticed that I am better life and I also noticed that I am at in many ways I'm less identified with at in many ways I'm less identified with at in many ways I'm less identified with the person that I am as I get older and the person that I am as I get older and the person that I am as I get older and I'm much more identified with being I'm much more identified with being I'm much more identified with being conscious conscious conscious I'd have a mind that is conscious that I'd have a mind that is conscious that I'd have a mind that is conscious that is able to create a person and that is able to create a person and that is able to create a person and that person is slightly different every day person is slightly different every day person is slightly different every day and the reason why I perceive it as and the reason why I perceive it as and the reason why I perceive it as identical has practical purposes so I identical has practical purposes so I identical has practical purposes so I can learn and make myself responsible can learn and make myself responsible can learn and make myself responsible for the decisions that I made in the for the decisions that I made in the for the decisions that I made in the past and project them in the future but past and project them in the future but past and project them in the future but I also realize that not actually the I also realize that not actually the I also realize that not actually the person that I was last year and I'm not person that I was last year and I'm not person that I was last year and I'm not the same person as I was 10 years ago the same person as I was 10 years ago the same person as I was 10 years ago and then 10 years from now I will be a and then 10 years from now I will be a and then 10 years from now I will be a different person so this continuity is a different person so this continuity is a different person so this continuity is a fiction it's only exists as a projection fiction it's only exists as a projection fiction it's only exists as a projection from my present self from my present self from my present self and Consciousness itself doesn't have an and Consciousness itself doesn't have an and Consciousness itself doesn't have an identity it's a law it's this basically identity it's a law it's this basically identity it's a law it's this basically if you build an arrangement of if you build an arrangement of if you build an arrangement of processing matter in a particular way processing matter in a particular way processing matter in a particular way the following thing is going to happen the following thing is going to happen the following thing is going to happen and the Consciousness that you have is and the Consciousness that you have is and the Consciousness that you have is functionally not different from mime functionally not different from mime functionally not different from mime Consciousness it's still the Consciousness it's still the Consciousness it's still the self-reflexive principle of agency that self-reflexive principle of agency that self-reflexive principle of agency that is just experiencing a different story is just experiencing a different story is just experiencing a different story different desires different coupling to different desires different coupling to different desires different coupling to the world and so on and once you accept the world and so on and once you accept the world and so on and once you accept that Consciousness is a unifiable that Consciousness is a unifiable that Consciousness is a unifiable principle that is lawlike and doesn't principle that is lawlike and doesn't principle that is lawlike and doesn't have an identity have an identity have an identity and you realize that you can just link and you realize that you can just link and you realize that you can just link up to some much larger body the whole up to some much larger body the whole up to some much larger body the whole perspective of uploading changes

perspective of uploading changes perspective of uploading changes dramatically you suddenly realize dramatically you suddenly realize dramatically you suddenly realize uploading is probably not about uploading is probably not about uploading is probably not about dissecting your brain setups by dissecting your brain setups by dissecting your brain setups by stand-ups and RNA fragment by RNA stand-ups and RNA fragment by RNA stand-ups and RNA fragment by RNA fragment and trying to get this all into fragment and trying to get this all into fragment and trying to get this all into a simulation but it's by extending the a simulation but it's by extending the a simulation but it's by extending the substrate by making it possible for you substrate by making it possible for you substrate by making it possible for you to move from your brain substrate into a to move from your brain substrate into a to move from your brain substrate into a larger substrate and merge with what you larger substrate and merge with what you larger substrate and merge with what you find there and you don't want to upload find there and you don't want to upload find there and you don't want to upload your knowledge because on the other side your knowledge because on the other side your knowledge because on the other side there's all of the knowledge where it's there's all of the knowledge where it's there's all of the knowledge where it's not just yours but every possibilities not just yours but every possibilities not just yours but every possibilities or the only thing that you need to know or the only thing that you need to know or the only thing that you need to know what are your personal secrets not that what are your personal secrets not that what are your personal secrets not that the other side doesn't know your the other side doesn't know your the other side doesn't know your personal secrets already maybe it personal secrets already maybe it personal secrets already maybe it doesn't know which one were yours right doesn't know which one were yours right doesn't know which one were yours right like a psychiatrist or a psychologist like a psychiatrist or a psychologist like a psychiatrist or a psychologist also knows all the kinds of personal also knows all the kinds of personal also knows all the kinds of personal secrets that people have they just don't secrets that people have they just don't secrets that people have they just don't know which ones are yours and so uh know which ones are yours and so uh know which ones are yours and so uh transmitting yourself and the other side transmitting yourself and the other side transmitting yourself and the other side is mostly about transmitting your is mostly about transmitting your is mostly about transmitting your Aesthetics this thing that makes you Aesthetics this thing that makes you Aesthetics this thing that makes you special the architecture of your special the architecture of your special the architecture of your perspective the thing that the way in perspective the thing that the way in perspective the thing that the way in which you look at the world and it's which you look at the world and it's which you look at the world and it's more like a complex attitude along many more like a complex attitude along many more like a complex attitude along many dimensions and that's something that can dimensions and that's something that can dimensions and that's something that can be measured by observation or by be measured by observation or by be measured by observation or by interaction so imagine that if a system interaction so imagine that if a system interaction so imagine that if a system that is so empathetic with you that you that is so empathetic with you that you that is so empathetic with you that you create a shared state that is extending create a shared state that is extending create a shared state that is extending beyond your body and suddenly you notice beyond your body and suddenly you notice beyond your body and suddenly you notice that on the other side the substrate is that on the other side the substrate is that on the other side the substrate is so much richer than the substrate that so much richer than the substrate that so much richer than the substrate that you have in side of your own body and you have in side of your own body and you have in side of your own body and maybe you still want to have a body and maybe you still want to have a body and maybe you still want to have a body and you create yourself a new one that you you create yourself a new one that you you create yourself a new one that you like more or maybe you will spend most like more or maybe you will spend most like more or maybe you will spend most of your world your time in the world of of your world your time in the world of of your world your time in the world of thought thought thought if I sat before you today and give you a

if I sat before you today and give you a if I sat before you today and give you a big red button and said here if you big red button and said here if you big red button and said here if you press this button you will get uploaded press this button you will get uploaded press this button you will get uploaded in this way in this way in this way the sense of identity that you have the sense of identity that you have the sense of identity that you have lived with for quite a long time is lived with for quite a long time is lived with for quite a long time is going to be gone going to be gone going to be gone but you press the button but you press the button but you press the button um there's the caveat I have um there's the caveat I have um there's the caveat I have um family so I have children that want um family so I have children that want um family so I have children that want me to be physically present in their me to be physically present in their me to be physically present in their life and interact with them in a life and interact with them in a life and interact with them in a particular way and they have a wife and particular way and they have a wife and particular way and they have a wife and personal friends and there is a personal friends and there is a personal friends and there is a particular mode of interaction that I particular mode of interaction that I particular mode of interaction that I feel I'm not through yet feel I'm not through yet feel I'm not through yet but apart from these responsibilities but apart from these responsibilities but apart from these responsibilities and they are negotiable to some degree I and they are negotiable to some degree I and they are negotiable to some degree I would press the button what is in this would press the button what is in this would press the button what is in this everything this love you have for the everything this love you have for the everything this love you have for the humans humans humans you can call responsibility but that you can call responsibility but that you can call responsibility but that connection connection connection that's the ego death isn't that the that's the ego death isn't that the that's the ego death isn't that the thing we're really afraid of thing we're really afraid of thing we're really afraid of is not to just die but to is not to just die but to is not to just die but to let go of the experience of love with let go of the experience of love with let go of the experience of love with other humans is this not everything other humans is this not everything other humans is this not everything everything is everything right so everything is everything right so everything is everything right so there's so much more and you could be there's so much more and you could be there's so much more and you could be lots of other things you could identify lots of other things you could identify lots of other things you could identify with lots of other things you could be with lots of other things you could be with lots of other things you could be identifying with being Gaia some kind of identifying with being Gaia some kind of identifying with being Gaia some kind of planetary control agent that emerges planetary control agent that emerges planetary control agent that emerges over all the activity of life on Earth over all the activity of life on Earth over all the activity of life on Earth you could be identifying with some you could be identifying with some you could be identifying with some hypergaya that is the concatenation of hypergaya that is the concatenation of hypergaya that is the concatenation of Gaia with or the Digital Life and yeah Gaia with or the Digital Life and yeah Gaia with or the Digital Life and yeah digital minds and so in this sense there

digital minds and so in this sense there digital minds and so in this sense there will be agents in all sorts of will be agents in all sorts of will be agents in all sorts of substrates and directions that all have substrates and directions that all have substrates and directions that all have their own goals and when they're not their own goals and when they're not their own goals and when they're not sustainable then these agents will cease sustainable then these agents will cease sustainable then these agents will cease to exist or when the agent feels that to exist or when the agent feels that to exist or when the agent feels that it's done with its own mission it will it's done with its own mission it will it's done with its own mission it will cease to exist in the same way as when cease to exist in the same way as when cease to exist in the same way as when you conclude the thought the thought is you conclude the thought the thought is you conclude the thought the thought is going to wrap up and gives control over going to wrap up and gives control over going to wrap up and gives control over to other thoughts in your own mind to other thoughts in your own mind to other thoughts in your own mind so there is no single thing that you so there is no single thing that you so there is no single thing that you need to do but but they observe myself need to do but but they observe myself need to do but but they observe myself this being is that sometimes I'm a this being is that sometimes I'm a this being is that sometimes I'm a parent and then I have identification parent and then I have identification parent and then I have identification and a job as a parent and sometimes I am and a job as a parent and sometimes I am and a job as a parent and sometimes I am an agent of Consciousness on Earth and an agent of Consciousness on Earth and an agent of Consciousness on Earth and then from this perspective there's other then from this perspective there's other then from this perspective there's other stuff that is important so this is my stuff that is important so this is my stuff that is important so this is my main issue with uh elise's perspective main issue with uh elise's perspective main issue with uh elise's perspective that is basically Mary himself to a very that is basically Mary himself to a very that is basically Mary himself to a very narrow human aesthetic and that narrow narrow human aesthetic and that narrow narrow human aesthetic and that narrow human aesthetic is a temporary thing human aesthetic is a temporary thing human aesthetic is a temporary thing humanity is a temporary species like humanity is a temporary species like humanity is a temporary species like most of the species on this planet are most of the species on this planet are most of the species on this planet are only around for a while and then they only around for a while and then they only around for a while and then they get replaced by other species in a get replaced by other species in a get replaced by other species in a similar way as our own physical organism similar way as our own physical organism similar way as our own physical organism is around here for a while and then gets is around here for a while and then gets is around here for a while and then gets replaced by next generation of human replaced by next generation of human replaced by next generation of human beings that are adapted to Changing Life beings that are adapted to Changing Life beings that are adapted to Changing Life circumstances in average via mutation circumstances in average via mutation circumstances in average via mutation and selection and it's only when we have and selection and it's only when we have and selection and it's only when we have ai and become completely software that ai and become completely software that ai and become completely software that we come become infinitely adaptable and we come become infinitely adaptable and we come become infinitely adaptable and we don't have this generational and we don't have this generational and we don't have this generational and species change anymore species change anymore species change anymore so if you take this larger perspective so if you take this larger perspective so if you take this larger perspective and you realize it's really not about us and you realize it's really not about us and you realize it's really not about us it's not about early years or Humanity it's not about early years or Humanity it's not about early years or Humanity but it's about life on Earth or it's

but it's about life on Earth or it's but it's about life on Earth or it's about defeating about defeating about defeating um um um uh entropy for as long as we can uh entropy for as long as we can uh entropy for as long as we can uh while being as interesting as we can uh while being as interesting as we can uh while being as interesting as we can right then the perspective changes right then the perspective changes right then the perspective changes dramatically and AI uh preventing AI dramatically and AI uh preventing AI dramatically and AI uh preventing AI from this perspective looks like a very from this perspective looks like a very from this perspective looks like a very big sin but when we look at the set of but when we look at the set of trajectories trajectories trajectories that such an AI would take that that such an AI would take that that such an AI would take that supersedes humans supersedes humans supersedes humans uh I think Eliezer is worried about like uh I think Eliezer is worried about like uh I think Eliezer is worried about like ones that not just kill all humans but ones that not just kill all humans but ones that not just kill all humans but also have some kind of also have some kind of also have some kind of maybe objectively uh undesirable maybe objectively uh undesirable maybe objectively uh undesirable consequence for life on Earth consequence for life on Earth consequence for life on Earth like how many trajectories when you look like how many trajectories when you look like how many trajectories when you look at the big picture of life on Earth at the big picture of life on Earth at the big picture of life on Earth would you be happy with and how much would you be happy with and how much would you be happy with and how much were you were you were you with AGI with AGI with AGI whether it kills humans or not there is whether it kills humans or not there is whether it kills humans or not there is no single answer to this it's really no single answer to this it's really no single answer to this it's really it's a question that depends on the it's a question that depends on the it's a question that depends on the perspective that I'm taking at a given perspective that I'm taking at a given perspective that I'm taking at a given moment moment moment and so there are perspectives that are and so there are perspectives that are and so there are perspectives that are determining most of my life as a human determining most of my life as a human determining most of my life as a human being yes and the other perspective zoom being yes and the other perspective zoom being yes and the other perspective zoom out further and imagine that when the out further and imagine that when the out further and imagine that when the Great oxygenation event happened that is Great oxygenation event happened that is Great oxygenation event happened that is photosynthesis was invented and plants photosynthesis was invented and plants photosynthesis was invented and plants emerged and displaced a lot of the fungi emerged and displaced a lot of the fungi emerged and displaced a lot of the fungi and alja in favor of plant life and then and alja in favor of plant life and then and alja in favor of plant life and then later made animals possible imagine that later made animals possible imagine that later made animals possible imagine that the fungi would have gotten together and the fungi would have gotten together and the fungi would have gotten together and said oh my God this photosynthesis stuff

said oh my God this photosynthesis stuff said oh my God this photosynthesis stuff is really really bad it's going to is really really bad it's going to is really really bad it's going to possibly displace and kill a lot of possibly displace and kill a lot of possibly displace and kill a lot of fungi we should slow it down and fungi we should slow it down and fungi we should slow it down and regulate it and mix with it doesn't regulate it and mix with it doesn't regulate it and mix with it doesn't happen happen happen uh this doesn't look good to me uh this doesn't look good to me uh this doesn't look good to me perspective that said you tweeted about perspective that said you tweeted about perspective that said you tweeted about a cliff a cliff a cliff beautifully written as a sentient beautifully written as a sentient beautifully written as a sentient species humanity is a beautiful child species humanity is a beautiful child species humanity is a beautiful child joyful explorative wild sad and joyful explorative wild sad and joyful explorative wild sad and desperate but Humanity has no concept of desperate but Humanity has no concept of desperate but Humanity has no concept of submitting to reason and duty to life submitting to reason and duty to life submitting to reason and duty to life and future survival we will run until we and future survival we will run until we and future survival we will run until we step past the cliff step past the cliff step past the cliff so first of all do you think that's true so first of all do you think that's true so first of all do you think that's true yeah I think that's pretty much the yeah I think that's pretty much the yeah I think that's pretty much the story of the club of Rome the limits to story of the club of Rome the limits to story of the club of Rome the limits to growth and the cliff that we are growth and the cliff that we are growth and the cliff that we are stepping over is at least one foot as stepping over is at least one foot as stepping over is at least one foot as the delayed feedback basically we do the delayed feedback basically we do the delayed feedback basically we do things that have consequences that can things that have consequences that can things that have consequences that can be felt uh Generations later and this be felt uh Generations later and this be felt uh Generations later and this severity increases even after we stopped severity increases even after we stopped severity increases even after we stopped doing the thing doing the thing doing the thing so I suspect that for the climate um so I suspect that for the climate um so I suspect that for the climate um that the original predictions uh that uh that the original predictions uh that uh that the original predictions uh that uh the famous scientists made were correct the famous scientists made were correct the famous scientists made were correct so when they said that the Tipping so when they said that the Tipping so when they said that the Tipping points were in the late 80s they were points were in the late 80s they were points were in the late 80s they were probably in the late 80s and if we would probably in the late 80s and if we would probably in the late 80s and if we would stop emission right now we would not stop emission right now we would not stop emission right now we would not turn it back maybe there are ways for turn it back maybe there are ways for turn it back maybe there are ways for carbon capture but so far there is no carbon capture but so far there is no carbon capture but so far there is no sustainable carbon capture technology sustainable carbon capture technology sustainable carbon capture technology that we can deploy deploy maybe there's that we can deploy deploy maybe there's that we can deploy deploy maybe there's a way to put aerosols in the atmosphere a way to put aerosols in the atmosphere a way to put aerosols in the atmosphere to cool it down it's the possibilities

to cool it down it's the possibilities to cool it down it's the possibilities right but right now per default right but right now per default right but right now per default uh it seems that we will step into a uh it seems that we will step into a uh it seems that we will step into a situation where we feel that we've run situation where we feel that we've run situation where we feel that we've run too far and going back is not something too far and going back is not something too far and going back is not something that we can do smoothly and gradually that we can do smoothly and gradually that we can do smoothly and gradually but it's going to lead to a catastrophic but it's going to lead to a catastrophic but it's going to lead to a catastrophic event event event catastrophic event of what kind catastrophic event of what kind catastrophic event of what kind so can you still in the case that we so can you still in the case that we so can you still in the case that we will continue dancing along will continue dancing along will continue dancing along and always stop just short of the edge and always stop just short of the edge and always stop just short of the edge of the cliff I think it's possible but of the cliff I think it's possible but of the cliff I think it's possible but it doesn't seem to be likely so I think it doesn't seem to be likely so I think it doesn't seem to be likely so I think this model that is being apparent in the this model that is being apparent in the this model that is being apparent in the simulation that we're making of climate simulation that we're making of climate simulation that we're making of climate pollution economies and so on is that pollution economies and so on is that pollution economies and so on is that many effects are only visible versus many effects are only visible versus many effects are only visible versus significant delay and uh in that time significant delay and uh in that time significant delay and uh in that time the system is moving much more out of the system is moving much more out of the system is moving much more out of the equilibrium state or of the state the equilibrium state or of the state the equilibrium state or of the state where homeostasis is still possible and where homeostasis is still possible and where homeostasis is still possible and instead moves into a different state one instead moves into a different state one instead moves into a different state one that is going to Harbor fewer people that is going to Harbor fewer people that is going to Harbor fewer people and that is basically the concern there and that is basically the concern there and that is basically the concern there and again it's a possibility it's just and again it's a possibility it's just and again it's a possibility it's just and it's a possibility that is and it's a possibility that is and it's a possibility that is larger than the possibility that it's larger than the possibility that it's larger than the possibility that it's not happening that we will be safe that not happening that we will be safe that not happening that we will be safe that we will be able to dance back all the we will be able to dance back all the we will be able to dance back all the time time time so the climate is one thing but there's so the climate is one thing but there's so the climate is one thing but there's a lot of other threats they might have a a lot of other threats they might have a a lot of other threats they might have a faster feedback mechanism less delay faster feedback mechanism less delay faster feedback mechanism less delay there is also a thing that uh AI is there is also a thing that uh AI is there is also a thing that uh AI is probably going to happen and it's going probably going to happen and it's going probably going to happen and it's going to make everything uncertain again yep to make everything uncertain again yep to make everything uncertain again yep because it is going to affect so many because it is going to affect so many because it is going to affect so many variables that it's very hard for us to

variables that it's very hard for us to variables that it's very hard for us to make a projection into the future make a projection into the future make a projection into the future anymore and maybe that's a good thing it anymore and maybe that's a good thing it anymore and maybe that's a good thing it does not uh give us the freedom I think does not uh give us the freedom I think does not uh give us the freedom I think to say now we don't need to care about to say now we don't need to care about to say now we don't need to care about anything anymore because AI will either anything anymore because AI will either anything anymore because AI will either kill us or save us but I suspect that if kill us or save us but I suspect that if kill us or save us but I suspect that if Humanity continues it will be due to AI Humanity continues it will be due to AI Humanity continues it will be due to AI what's the timeline for things to get what's the timeline for things to get what's the timeline for things to get real weird with AI and it can get weird real weird with AI and it can get weird real weird with AI and it can get weird in interesting ways before you get to in interesting ways before you get to in interesting ways before you get to AGI what about AI girlfriends and AGI what about AI girlfriends and AGI what about AI girlfriends and boyfriends boyfriends boyfriends fundamentally transforming human fundamentally transforming human fundamentally transforming human relationships relationships relationships I think human relationships are already I think human relationships are already I think human relationships are already fundamentally transformed and it's fundamentally transformed and it's fundamentally transformed and it's already very weird by which by which already very weird by which by which already very weird by which by which technology points on social media technology points on social media technology points on social media yeah yeah yeah is it though isn't the fundamentals of is it though isn't the fundamentals of is it though isn't the fundamentals of the core group of humans that affect the core group of humans that affect the core group of humans that affect your life your life your life still the same your loved ones family no still the same your loved ones family no still the same your loved ones family no I think that for instance many people I think that for instance many people I think that for instance many people live in intentional communities right live in intentional communities right live in intentional communities right now they're moving around until they now they're moving around until they now they're moving around until they find people that they can relate to when find people that they can relate to when find people that they can relate to when they become their family and often that they become their family and often that they become their family and often that doesn't work because it turns out that doesn't work because it turns out that doesn't work because it turns out that instead of having grown networks where instead of having grown networks where instead of having grown networks where you get around with the people that you you get around with the people that you you get around with the people that you grew up with you have more transactional grew up with you have more transactional grew up with you have more transactional relationships you shop around you have relationships you shop around you have relationships you shop around you have markets for attention and pleasure and markets for attention and pleasure and markets for attention and pleasure and relationships that kills the magic relationships that kills the magic relationships that kills the magic somehow why is that why is the somehow why is that why is the somehow why is that why is the transactional search transactional search transactional search uh for optimizing attention allocation uh for optimizing attention allocation uh for optimizing attention allocation of attention somehow misses the Romantic of attention somehow misses the Romantic of attention somehow misses the Romantic magic of what human relations does magic of what human relations does magic of what human relations does author question how magical was it

author question how magical was it author question how magical was it before was it that you just could rely before was it that you just could rely before was it that you just could rely on instincts that uh used your on instincts that uh used your on instincts that uh used your intuitions and you didn't need to intuitions and you didn't need to intuitions and you didn't need to rationally reflect uh but once you rationally reflect uh but once you rationally reflect uh but once you understand uh it's no longer magical understand uh it's no longer magical understand uh it's no longer magical because you actually understand why you because you actually understand why you because you actually understand why you were attracted to this person at this were attracted to this person at this were attracted to this person at this age and not to that person at this age age and not to that person at this age age and not to that person at this age and what the actual considerations were and what the actual considerations were and what the actual considerations were that went on in your mind and what the that went on in your mind and what the that went on in your mind and what the calculations were what what's the calculations were what what's the calculations were what what's the likelihood that you're going to have a likelihood that you're going to have a likelihood that you're going to have a sustainable relationship is this person sustainable relationship is this person sustainable relationship is this person that this person is not going to leave that this person is not going to leave that this person is not going to leave you for somebody else how are your life you for somebody else how are your life you for somebody else how are your life trajectories are going going to evolve trajectories are going going to evolve trajectories are going going to evolve and so on and when you're young you're and so on and when you're young you're and so on and when you're young you're unable to ex duplicate all this and you unable to ex duplicate all this and you unable to ex duplicate all this and you have to rely on intuitions and instincts have to rely on intuitions and instincts have to rely on intuitions and instincts that in part you were born with and also that in part you were born with and also that in part you were born with and also in the wisdom of your environment that in the wisdom of your environment that in the wisdom of your environment that is going to give you some kind of is going to give you some kind of is going to give you some kind of reflection on your choices and many of reflection on your choices and many of reflection on your choices and many of these things are disappearing now these things are disappearing now these things are disappearing now because we feel that our parents might because we feel that our parents might because we feel that our parents might have no idea about how we are living and have no idea about how we are living and have no idea about how we are living and the environments that people have in the the environments that people have in the the environments that people have in the cultures that we grew up in the middle cultures that we grew up in the middle cultures that we grew up in the middle years that our parents existed in might years that our parents existed in might years that our parents existed in might have no ability to teach us how to deal have no ability to teach us how to deal have no ability to teach us how to deal with this new world and for many people with this new world and for many people with this new world and for many people that's actually true but it doesn't mean that's actually true but it doesn't mean that's actually true but it doesn't mean that within one generation we build that within one generation we build that within one generation we build something that is more magical and more something that is more magical and more something that is more magical and more sustainable and More Beautiful instead sustainable and More Beautiful instead sustainable and More Beautiful instead we often end up with an attempt to we often end up with an attempt to we often end up with an attempt to produce something that looks beautiful produce something that looks beautiful produce something that looks beautiful like I was very weirded out by the like I was very weirded out by the like I was very weirded out by the Aesthetics of the Aesthetics of the Aesthetics of the um Vision Pro headset by Apple and not um Vision Pro headset by Apple and not um Vision Pro headset by Apple and not so much because I don't like the so much because I don't like the so much because I don't like the technology I'm very curious about what technology I'm very curious about what technology I'm very curious about what it's going to be like and have don't it's going to be like and have don't it's going to be like and have don't have an opinion yet but uh the

have an opinion yet but uh the have an opinion yet but uh the Aesthetics of the presentation and so on Aesthetics of the presentation and so on Aesthetics of the presentation and so on were so uncanny valley-esque to me the were so uncanny valley-esque to me the were so uncanny valley-esque to me the characters uh being extremely plastic characters uh being extremely plastic characters uh being extremely plastic living in some hypothetical living in some hypothetical living in some hypothetical um um um myth Century Furniture Museum yeah myth Century Furniture Museum yeah myth Century Furniture Museum yeah this is uh the proliferation of this is uh the proliferation of this is uh the proliferation of marketing teams yes but it was a CGI marketing teams yes but it was a CGI marketing teams yes but it was a CGI generated wealth and was a CGA generated generated wealth and was a CGA generated generated wealth and was a CGA generated well that doesn't exist and when I well that doesn't exist and when I well that doesn't exist and when I complained about this uh some friends complained about this uh some friends complained about this uh some friends came back to music but these are startup came back to music but these are startup came back to music but these are startup Founders this is uh what they are what Founders this is uh what they are what Founders this is uh what they are what they live like in Silicon Valley and I they live like in Silicon Valley and I they live like in Silicon Valley and I try to tell them no and know lots of try to tell them no and know lots of try to tell them no and know lots of people in Silicon Valley this is not people in Silicon Valley this is not people in Silicon Valley this is not what people are like there's still what people are like there's still what people are like there's still people they're still human beings so the the the grounding of physical so the the the grounding of physical reality somehow is important too reality somehow is important too reality somehow is important too um in culture and so basically what's um in culture and so basically what's um in culture and so basically what's absent in this thing is culture there is absent in this thing is culture there is absent in this thing is culture there is a simulation of culture an attempt to a simulation of culture an attempt to a simulation of culture an attempt to replace Culture by catalog by some kind replace Culture by catalog by some kind replace Culture by catalog by some kind of of of um aesthetic optimization that is not um aesthetic optimization that is not um aesthetic optimization that is not the result of having a sustainable life the result of having a sustainable life the result of having a sustainable life a sustainable human relationships with a sustainable human relationships with a sustainable human relationships with houses that work for you and houses that work for you and houses that work for you and um a mode of living that works for you um a mode of living that works for you um a mode of living that works for you in which this product in which this product in which this product um these glasses fit in naturally and I um these glasses fit in naturally and I um these glasses fit in naturally and I I guess that's also why so many people I guess that's also why so many people I guess that's also why so many people are weirded out about the product are weirded out about the product are weirded out about the product because they don't know how is this because they don't know how is this because they don't know how is this actually going to fit into my life into actually going to fit into my life into actually going to fit into my life into my human relationships because the way my human relationships because the way my human relationships because the way in which it was presented in these in which it was presented in these in which it was presented in these videos didn't seem to be credible

videos didn't seem to be credible videos didn't seem to be credible do you think AI when do you think AI when do you think AI when um is deployed by companies like um is deployed by companies like um is deployed by companies like Microsoft and Google and meta will have Microsoft and Google and meta will have Microsoft and Google and meta will have the same issue of being weirdly the same issue of being weirdly the same issue of being weirdly corporate like corporate like corporate like there'd be some uncanny valley some there'd be some uncanny valley some there'd be some uncanny valley some weirdness to the whole presentation so weirdness to the whole presentation so weirdness to the whole presentation so this is I've gotten a chance to talk to this is I've gotten a chance to talk to this is I've gotten a chance to talk to George Haas he believes everything George Haas he believes everything George Haas he believes everything should be open source and decentralized should be open source and decentralized should be open source and decentralized and there then we shall have the AI of and there then we shall have the AI of and there then we shall have the AI of the people the people the people and it'll maintain a grounding to the and it'll maintain a grounding to the and it'll maintain a grounding to the magic that's uh magic that's uh magic that's uh that's Humanity That's The Human that's Humanity That's The Human that's Humanity That's The Human Condition Condition Condition that like corporations will destroy the that like corporations will destroy the that like corporations will destroy the magic magic magic I believe that if we make everything I believe that if we make everything I believe that if we make everything open source uh and make this mandatory open source uh and make this mandatory open source uh and make this mandatory we are going to lose about a lot of we are going to lose about a lot of we are going to lose about a lot of beautiful art and a lot of beautiful beautiful art and a lot of beautiful beautiful art and a lot of beautiful designs there is a reason why uh Linux designs there is a reason why uh Linux designs there is a reason why uh Linux desktop is still ugly create coherence and open source designs create coherence and open source designs so far when the designs have to get very so far when the designs have to get very so far when the designs have to get very large and it's easier to make this large and it's easier to make this large and it's easier to make this happening in a company with centralized happening in a company with centralized happening in a company with centralized organization and from my own perspective organization and from my own perspective organization and from my own perspective what we should ensure is that open what we should ensure is that open what we should ensure is that open source Never Dies that it can always source Never Dies that it can always source Never Dies that it can always compete and has a place with the other compete and has a place with the other compete and has a place with the other forms of organization because I think it forms of organization because I think it forms of organization because I think it is absolutely vital that open source is absolutely vital that open source is absolutely vital that open source exists and that we have systems that uh exists and that we have systems that uh exists and that we have systems that uh people have under control outside of the people have under control outside of the people have under control outside of the cooperation and that is also producing

cooperation and that is also producing cooperation and that is also producing viable competition to the corporations viable competition to the corporations viable competition to the corporations so the corporations the centralized so the corporations the centralized so the corporations the centralized control the dictatorships of control the dictatorships of control the dictatorships of Corporations can create Beauty there's a Corporations can create Beauty there's a Corporations can create Beauty there's a centralized design is a source of a lot centralized design is a source of a lot centralized design is a source of a lot of beauty and then I guess open source of beauty and then I guess open source of beauty and then I guess open source is a source of is a source of is a source of Freedom a hedge against Freedom a hedge against Freedom a hedge against the corrupting nature of power the corrupting nature of power the corrupting nature of power that comes with centralized I grew up in that comes with centralized I grew up in that comes with centralized I grew up in socialism and I I learned that socialism and I I learned that socialism and I I learned that corporations are totally evil and they corporations are totally evil and they corporations are totally evil and they found this very very convincing and then found this very very convincing and then found this very very convincing and then you look at corporations like N1 and you look at corporations like N1 and you look at corporations like N1 and Halliburton maybe and realized yeah they Halliburton maybe and realized yeah they Halliburton maybe and realized yeah they are evil but you also notice that many are evil but you also notice that many are evil but you also notice that many other corporations are not evil they're other corporations are not evil they're other corporations are not evil they're surprisingly benevolent why are they so surprisingly benevolent why are they so surprisingly benevolent why are they so benevolent is this because everybody is benevolent is this because everybody is benevolent is this because everybody is fighting them all the time this I don't fighting them all the time this I don't fighting them all the time this I don't think that's the only explanation it's think that's the only explanation it's think that's the only explanation it's because they're actually animals that because they're actually animals that because they're actually animals that live in a large ecosystem and that are live in a large ecosystem and that are live in a large ecosystem and that are still largely controlled by people that still largely controlled by people that still largely controlled by people that want that ecosystem to flourish and be want that ecosystem to flourish and be want that ecosystem to flourish and be viable for people so I think that Pat viable for people so I think that Pat viable for people so I think that Pat gelsinger is completely sincere when he gelsinger is completely sincere when he gelsinger is completely sincere when he leads Intel to be a tool that supplies leads Intel to be a tool that supplies leads Intel to be a tool that supplies the Free World with semiconductors and the Free World with semiconductors and the Free World with semiconductors and it's not necessary that all the it's not necessary that all the it's not necessary that all the semiconductors are coming from semiconductors are coming from semiconductors are coming from intelligence Intel needs to be there to intelligence Intel needs to be there to intelligence Intel needs to be there to make sure that we always have them make sure that we always have them make sure that we always have them right so there can be many ways in which right so there can be many ways in which right so there can be many ways in which we can import and trade semiconductors we can import and trade semiconductors we can import and trade semiconductors from other companies in place that we from other companies in place that we from other companies in place that we just need to make sure that nobody can just need to make sure that nobody can just need to make sure that nobody can cut us off from it because that would be cut us off from it because that would be cut us off from it because that would be a disaster for this kind of society and a disaster for this kind of society and a disaster for this kind of society and world right and so there are many things

world right and so there are many things world right and so there are many things that need to be done to make our style that need to be done to make our style that need to be done to make our style of life possible and then with this I of life possible and then with this I of life possible and then with this I don't mean uh just capitalism or don't mean uh just capitalism or don't mean uh just capitalism or environmental destruction consumer resin environmental destruction consumer resin environmental destruction consumer resin and Creature Comforts I mean an idea of and Creature Comforts I mean an idea of and Creature Comforts I mean an idea of life in which we are determined uh not life in which we are determined uh not life in which we are determined uh not by some kind of king or dictator but in by some kind of king or dictator but in by some kind of king or dictator but in which individuals can determine which individuals can determine which individuals can determine themselves to the largest possible themselves to the largest possible themselves to the largest possible degree and to me this is something that degree and to me this is something that degree and to me this is something that this Western World Is Still trying to this Western World Is Still trying to this Western World Is Still trying to embody and it's a very valuable idea embody and it's a very valuable idea embody and it's a very valuable idea that we shouldn't give up too early and that we shouldn't give up too early and that we shouldn't give up too early and from this perspective the US is a system from this perspective the US is a system from this perspective the US is a system of interleaving Clubs of interleaving Clubs of interleaving Clubs and an entrepreneur is a special Club and an entrepreneur is a special Club and an entrepreneur is a special Club founder it's somebody who makes a Clap founder it's somebody who makes a Clap founder it's somebody who makes a Clap That is producing things that are That is producing things that are That is producing things that are economically viable and to do this it economically viable and to do this it economically viable and to do this it requires a lot of people who are requires a lot of people who are requires a lot of people who are dedicating a significant part of their dedicating a significant part of their dedicating a significant part of their life life life for working for this particular kind of for working for this particular kind of for working for this particular kind of club and the entrepreneur is picking the club and the entrepreneur is picking the club and the entrepreneur is picking the initial set of rules in the mission and initial set of rules in the mission and initial set of rules in the mission and vision and Aesthetics for the club and vision and Aesthetics for the club and vision and Aesthetics for the club and make sure that it works make sure that it works make sure that it works but uh the people that are in there need but uh the people that are in there need but uh the people that are in there need to be protected right if they sacrifice to be protected right if they sacrifice to be protected right if they sacrifice part of their life they need to be rules part of their life they need to be rules part of their life they need to be rules that tell how they're being taken care that tell how they're being taken care that tell how they're being taken care of even after they leave the club and so of even after they leave the club and so of even after they leave the club and so on so there's a large body of rules that on so there's a large body of rules that on so there's a large body of rules that have been created by our rule-giving have been created by our rule-giving have been created by our rule-giving clubs and that are enforced by our clubs and that are enforced by our clubs and that are enforced by our enforcement collapse and on and some of enforcement collapse and on and some of enforcement collapse and on and some of these collabs have to be monopolies for these collabs have to be monopolies for these collabs have to be monopolies for game theoretic reasons which also makes game theoretic reasons which also makes game theoretic reasons which also makes them more open to corruption and less them more open to corruption and less them more open to corruption and less harder to update yeah and this is an harder to update yeah and this is an harder to update yeah and this is an ongoing discussion and process that ongoing discussion and process that ongoing discussion and process that takes place but the beauty of this idea

takes place but the beauty of this idea takes place but the beauty of this idea that there is no centralized King who is that there is no centralized King who is that there is no centralized King who is uh that is extracting from The Peasants uh that is extracting from The Peasants uh that is extracting from The Peasants and breeding The Peasants into serving and breeding The Peasants into serving and breeding The Peasants into serving the king and fulfilling all the rules the king and fulfilling all the rules the king and fulfilling all the rules like ends and then enter but that uh like ends and then enter but that uh like ends and then enter but that uh there is a freedom of Association and there is a freedom of Association and there is a freedom of Association and corporations are one of them is corporations are one of them is corporations are one of them is something that took me some time to something that took me some time to something that took me some time to realize so I do I do think that realize so I do I do think that realize so I do I do think that corporations are dangerous right they corporations are dangerous right they corporations are dangerous right they need to be protections against overreach need to be protections against overreach need to be protections against overreach of corporations that can do regular Tory of corporations that can do regular Tory of corporations that can do regular Tory capture and prevent open source from capture and prevent open source from capture and prevent open source from competing with corporations by imposing competing with corporations by imposing competing with corporations by imposing rules that make it impossible for a rules that make it impossible for a rules that make it impossible for a small group of kids to come together to small group of kids to come together to small group of kids to come together to build their own language model because build their own language model because build their own language model because open AI has convinced the US that you open AI has convinced the US that you open AI has convinced the US that you need to have some kind of FDA process need to have some kind of FDA process need to have some kind of FDA process that you need to go through that cost that you need to go through that cost that you need to go through that cost many million dollars before you are able many million dollars before you are able many million dollars before you are able to train a language model right so this to train a language model right so this to train a language model right so this is important to make sure that this is important to make sure that this is important to make sure that this doesn't happen so I think that open Ai doesn't happen so I think that open Ai doesn't happen so I think that open Ai and Google are good things if these good and Google are good things if these good and Google are good things if these good things are kept in check in such a way things are kept in check in such a way things are kept in check in such a way that all the other clubs can still be that all the other clubs can still be that all the other clubs can still be founded and all the other forms of clubs founded and all the other forms of clubs founded and all the other forms of clubs that are desirable can still coexist that are desirable can still coexist that are desirable can still coexist with them so what do you think about with them so what do you think about with them so what do you think about meta in contrast to that open sourcing meta in contrast to that open sourcing meta in contrast to that open sourcing most of its uh language models and most most of its uh language models and most most of its uh language models and most of the AI models it's working on and of the AI models it's working on and of the AI models it's working on and actually suggesting they will continue actually suggesting they will continue actually suggesting they will continue to do so in the future for future to do so in the future for future to do so in the future for future versions of llama versions of llama versions of llama for example their large language model for example their large language model for example their large language model what uh what uh what uh is that exciting to you is that is that exciting to you is that is that exciting to you is that concerning

concerning concerning I don't find it very concerning but I don't find it very concerning but I don't find it very concerning but that's also because I think that the that's also because I think that the that's also because I think that the language models are not very dangerous language models are not very dangerous language models are not very dangerous yet yet yet and yet yes so as I said I have no proof and yet yes so as I said I have no proof and yet yes so as I said I have no proof that there is the boundary between the that there is the boundary between the that there is the boundary between the language models and AI HDI language models and AI HDI language models and AI HDI it's possible that somebody builds a it's possible that somebody builds a it's possible that somebody builds a version of baby AGI I think and Source version of baby AGI I think and Source version of baby AGI I think and Source in an algorithmic improvements that in an algorithmic improvements that in an algorithmic improvements that scale these systems up in ways that scale these systems up in ways that scale these systems up in ways that otherwise wouldn't have happened without otherwise wouldn't have happened without otherwise wouldn't have happened without these language model components so it's these language model components so it's these language model components so it's not really clear for me what the end at not really clear for me what the end at not really clear for me what the end at the end game is there and if these the end game is there and if these the end game is there and if these models can boot force their way into AGI models can boot force their way into AGI models can boot force their way into AGI and there's also a possibility that the and there's also a possibility that the and there's also a possibility that the AGI that we are building with these AGI that we are building with these AGI that we are building with these language models language models language models are not taking responsibility for what are not taking responsibility for what are not taking responsibility for what they are because they don't understand they are because they don't understand they are because they don't understand the greater game the greater game the greater game and so to me it would be interesting to and so to me it would be interesting to and so to me it would be interesting to try to understand how to build systems try to understand how to build systems try to understand how to build systems that understand what the greater games that understand what the greater games that understand what the greater games are what are the longest games that we are what are the longest games that we are what are the longest games that we can play on this planet can play on this planet can play on this planet games broadly like deeply defined the games broadly like deeply defined the games broadly like deeply defined the way you did with the games now in the way you did with the games now in the way you did with the games now in the game theoretic sense so when we are game theoretic sense so when we are game theoretic sense so when we are interacting with each other in some interacting with each other in some interacting with each other in some sense we are playing games we are making sense we are playing games we are making sense we are playing games we are making lots and lots of interactions this lots and lots of interactions this lots and lots of interactions this doesn't mean that these interactions doesn't mean that these interactions doesn't mean that these interactions have also be transactional every one of have also be transactional every one of have also be transactional every one of us is playing some kind of game by uh us is playing some kind of game by uh us is playing some kind of game by uh virtue of identifying this particular virtue of identifying this particular virtue of identifying this particular kinds of goals that we have or kinds of goals that we have or kinds of goals that we have or Aesthetics from which we derive the Aesthetics from which we derive the Aesthetics from which we derive the goals right so when you say um I'm Lex

goals right so when you say um I'm Lex goals right so when you say um I'm Lex Friedman I'm doing a set of podcasts and Friedman I'm doing a set of podcasts and Friedman I'm doing a set of podcasts and then you feel that it's part of then you feel that it's part of then you feel that it's part of something larger that you want to build something larger that you want to build something larger that you want to build maybe you want to inspire people maybe maybe you want to inspire people maybe maybe you want to inspire people maybe you want them to see more possibilities you want them to see more possibilities you want them to see more possibilities and get them together over shared ideas and get them together over shared ideas and get them together over shared ideas maybe your game is that you want to maybe your game is that you want to maybe your game is that you want to become super rich and famous by being become super rich and famous by being become super rich and famous by being the best postcard Acosta on Earth maybe the best postcard Acosta on Earth maybe the best postcard Acosta on Earth maybe you have other games maybe it switches you have other games maybe it switches you have other games maybe it switches from time to time right but there is a from time to time right but there is a from time to time right but there is a certain perspective where you might be certain perspective where you might be certain perspective where you might be thinking what is the longest possible thinking what is the longest possible thinking what is the longest possible game that you would be playing a short game that you would be playing a short game that you would be playing a short game is for instance cancer is playing a game is for instance cancer is playing a game is for instance cancer is playing a shorter game than your organism it kinda shorter game than your organism it kinda shorter game than your organism it kinda is an organism playing a shorter game is an organism playing a shorter game is an organism playing a shorter game then the regular organism and because then the regular organism and because then the regular organism and because the Cancer Cannot procreate beyond the the Cancer Cannot procreate beyond the the Cancer Cannot procreate beyond the organism organism organism um except for some infectious cancers um except for some infectious cancers um except for some infectious cancers like the ones that eradicated the like the ones that eradicated the like the ones that eradicated the Tasmanian devils uh you uh typically end Tasmanian devils uh you uh typically end Tasmanian devils uh you uh typically end up with the situation where the organism up with the situation where the organism up with the situation where the organism dies together with the cancer because dies together with the cancer because dies together with the cancer because the cancer has destroyed the larger the cancer has destroyed the larger the cancer has destroyed the larger system due to playing a shorter game and system due to playing a shorter game and system due to playing a shorter game and so ideally you want to I think build so ideally you want to I think build so ideally you want to I think build agents that play the longest possible agents that play the longest possible agents that play the longest possible games and the longest possible games is games and the longest possible games is games and the longest possible games is to keep entropy at Bay as long as to keep entropy at Bay as long as to keep entropy at Bay as long as possible by doing while doing possible by doing while doing possible by doing while doing interesting stuff but the longest yes interesting stuff but the longest yes interesting stuff but the longest yes the dab part the longest possible game the dab part the longest possible game the dab part the longest possible game while doing interesting stuff and while while doing interesting stuff and while while doing interesting stuff and while maintaining at least the same amount of maintaining at least the same amount of maintaining at least the same amount of interesting yes so complexity so interesting yes so complexity so interesting yes so complexity so propagating because currently I'm pretty propagating because currently I'm pretty propagating because currently I'm pretty much identified as a conscious being much identified as a conscious being much identified as a conscious being it's the minimal uh minimal it's the minimal uh minimal it's the minimal uh minimal identification that I managed to get identification that I managed to get identification that I managed to get together because if I turn this off I together because if I turn this off I together because if I turn this off I fall asleep right and when I'm asleep

fall asleep right and when I'm asleep fall asleep right and when I'm asleep I'm a vegetable I'm no longer here as an I'm a vegetable I'm no longer here as an I'm a vegetable I'm no longer here as an agent so my agency is basically agent so my agency is basically agent so my agency is basically predicated on being conscious and what I predicated on being conscious and what I predicated on being conscious and what I care about is care about is care about is other conscious agents they're the only other conscious agents they're the only other conscious agents they're the only moral agents for me and so if an AI were moral agents for me and so if an AI were moral agents for me and so if an AI were to treat me as a moral agent that it is to treat me as a moral agent that it is to treat me as a moral agent that it is interested in coexisting this and interested in coexisting this and interested in coexisting this and cooperating with and mutually supporting cooperating with and mutually supporting cooperating with and mutually supporting each other maybe it is I think necessary each other maybe it is I think necessary each other maybe it is I think necessary that the AI thinks that Consciousness is that the AI thinks that Consciousness is that the AI thinks that Consciousness is a viable mode of existence and important a viable mode of existence and important a viable mode of existence and important so I think it would be very important to so I think it would be very important to so I think it would be very important to build conscious Ai and do this as the build conscious Ai and do this as the build conscious Ai and do this as the primary goal so not just say we want to primary goal so not just say we want to primary goal so not just say we want to build a useful tool that we can use for build a useful tool that we can use for build a useful tool that we can use for all sorts of things and then we have to all sorts of things and then we have to all sorts of things and then we have to make sure that the impact on the labor make sure that the impact on the labor make sure that the impact on the labor market is something that is not too market is something that is not too market is something that is not too disruptive and manageable and the impact disruptive and manageable and the impact disruptive and manageable and the impact on the copyright holder is manageable on the copyright holder is manageable on the copyright holder is manageable and not too disruptive and so on right I and not too disruptive and so on right I and not too disruptive and so on right I don't think that's the most important don't think that's the most important don't think that's the most important game to be played game to be played game to be played I think that we will see extremely large I think that we will see extremely large I think that we will see extremely large disruptions of the status quo that are disruptions of the status quo that are disruptions of the status quo that are quite unpredictable at this point and I quite unpredictable at this point and I quite unpredictable at this point and I just personally want to make sure that just personally want to make sure that just personally want to make sure that some of the stuff on the other side is some of the stuff on the other side is some of the stuff on the other side is interesting and conscious how do we ride interesting and conscious how do we ride interesting and conscious how do we ride as individuals and as a society this as individuals and as a society this as individuals and as a society this wave disruptive wave that changes the wave disruptive wave that changes the wave disruptive wave that changes the nature of the game absolutely don't know nature of the game absolutely don't know nature of the game absolutely don't know so everybody is going to do their best so everybody is going to do their best so everybody is going to do their best as always to build a bunker in the woods as always to build a bunker in the woods as always to build a bunker in the woods do we meditate more do we meditate more do we meditate more um drugs some mushrooms psychedelics I

um drugs some mushrooms psychedelics I um drugs some mushrooms psychedelics I mean what uh lots of sex what are we mean what uh lots of sex what are we mean what uh lots of sex what are we talking about here do you have to play talking about here do you have to play talking about here do you have to play Diablo 4 I'm Diablo 4 I'm Diablo 4 I'm uh hoping that will help me escape for a uh hoping that will help me escape for a uh hoping that will help me escape for a brief moment want to play video games brief moment want to play video games brief moment want to play video games what what what do you have ideas do you have ideas do you have ideas I really like playing disco Elysium this I really like playing disco Elysium this I really like playing disco Elysium this was one of the most beautiful uh was one of the most beautiful uh was one of the most beautiful uh computer games I played in recent years computer games I played in recent years computer games I played in recent years and it's a Noir novel that is a and it's a Noir novel that is a and it's a Noir novel that is a philosophical perspective on Western philosophical perspective on Western philosophical perspective on Western Society from the perspective of an Society from the perspective of an Society from the perspective of an Estonian and he first of all bought a Estonian and he first of all bought a Estonian and he first of all bought a book about this bird that is book about this bird that is book about this bird that is in a parallel universe that is quite in a parallel universe that is quite in a parallel universe that is quite poetic and fascinating and is condensing poetic and fascinating and is condensing poetic and fascinating and is condensing his perspective on our societies it's uh his perspective on our societies it's uh his perspective on our societies it's uh was very very nice he spent a lot of was very very nice he spent a lot of was very very nice he spent a lot of time writing it yet uh I think sold a time writing it yet uh I think sold a time writing it yet uh I think sold a couple thousand books and as a result couple thousand books and as a result couple thousand books and as a result became an alcoholic and then he had the became an alcoholic and then he had the became an alcoholic and then he had the idea or one of his friends had the idea idea or one of his friends had the idea idea or one of his friends had the idea of turning this into an RPG and uh it's of turning this into an RPG and uh it's of turning this into an RPG and uh it's mind-blowing they spend the illustrator mind-blowing they spend the illustrator mind-blowing they spend the illustrator more than a year just on making a deep more than a year just on making a deep more than a year just on making a deep uh graph art for the scenes in between uh graph art for the scenes in between uh graph art for the scenes in between and so aesthetically it captures it and so aesthetically it captures it and so aesthetically it captures it stunning but it's a philosophical work stunning but it's a philosophical work stunning but it's a philosophical work of art it's a reflection of society it's of art it's a reflection of society it's of art it's a reflection of society it's fascinating to spend time in this world fascinating to spend time in this world fascinating to spend time in this world and so for me it was using a medium in a and so for me it was using a medium in a and so for me it was using a medium in a new way and uh telling a story that left new way and uh telling a story that left new way and uh telling a story that left me enriched well uh when I tried Diablo

me enriched well uh when I tried Diablo me enriched well uh when I tried Diablo I didn't feel enriched playing it I felt I didn't feel enriched playing it I felt I didn't feel enriched playing it I felt that the time playing it was not that the time playing it was not that the time playing it was not unpleasant but there's also more unpleasant but there's also more unpleasant but there's also more pleasant stuff that I can yes I basically feel that there is a yes I basically feel that there is a very transparent economy that's going on very transparent economy that's going on very transparent economy that's going on the story of the Diablo was brain dead the story of the Diablo was brain dead the story of the Diablo was brain dead so it's it's not really interesting to so it's it's not really interesting to so it's it's not really interesting to me my heart is slowly breaking by the me my heart is slowly breaking by the me my heart is slowly breaking by the Deep truth you're conveying to me Deep truth you're conveying to me Deep truth you're conveying to me why why can't you just allow me to enjoy why why can't you just allow me to enjoy why why can't you just allow me to enjoy go ahead go nuts go ahead go nuts go ahead go nuts I have no objection here not uh I have no objection here not uh I have no objection here not uh I'm just trying to describe what's I'm just trying to describe what's I'm just trying to describe what's happening and uh it's not uh that I happening and uh it's not uh that I happening and uh it's not uh that I don't do things for a later say oh I don't do things for a later say oh I don't do things for a later say oh I actually wish I would have done actually wish I would have done actually wish I would have done something different yeah I also know something different yeah I also know something different yeah I also know that when we die the greatest regret that when we die the greatest regret that when we die the greatest regret that people typically have on their that people typically have on their that people typically have on their deathbed at the state oh I wish I had deathbed at the state oh I wish I had deathbed at the state oh I wish I had spent more time on Twitter spent more time on Twitter spent more time on Twitter no I don't think that's the case I think no I don't think that's the case I think no I don't think that's the case I think I was probably uh have spent less time I was probably uh have spent less time I was probably uh have spent less time on Twitter but I found it so useful for on Twitter but I found it so useful for on Twitter but I found it so useful for myself and also so addictive that I felt myself and also so addictive that I felt myself and also so addictive that I felt I need to make the best of it and turn I need to make the best of it and turn I need to make the best of it and turn it into an art form and thought form and it into an art form and thought form and it into an art form and thought form and it did help me to develop something yeah it did help me to develop something yeah it did help me to develop something yeah but I wish uh what other things I could but I wish uh what other things I could but I wish uh what other things I could have done in the meantime it's just not have done in the meantime it's just not have done in the meantime it's just not the universe that we are in anymore most the universe that we are in anymore most the universe that we are in anymore most people don't read books anymore what do you think that means that we what do you think that means that we don't read books anymore what do you don't read books anymore what do you don't read books anymore what do you think that means about the collective think that means about the collective think that means about the collective intelligence of our species is it intelligence of our species is it intelligence of our species is it possible it's still progressing and possible it's still progressing and possible it's still progressing and growing or experience there is stuff

growing or experience there is stuff growing or experience there is stuff happening on Twitter that was impossible happening on Twitter that was impossible happening on Twitter that was impossible for Spokes and I really regret that um for Spokes and I really regret that um for Spokes and I really regret that um Twitter has not taken the turn that I Twitter has not taken the turn that I Twitter has not taken the turn that I was hoping for I thought Elon is global was hoping for I thought Elon is global was hoping for I thought Elon is global brainpilled and understands that this brainpilled and understands that this brainpilled and understands that this thing needs to self-organize and he thing needs to self-organize and he thing needs to self-organize and he needs to develop tools to allow the needs to develop tools to allow the needs to develop tools to allow the profligation of the self-organization so profligation of the self-organization so profligation of the self-organization so Twitter can become sentient and maybe Twitter can become sentient and maybe Twitter can become sentient and maybe this was a pipe dream from the beginning this was a pipe dream from the beginning this was a pipe dream from the beginning but I felt that the enormous pressure but I felt that the enormous pressure but I felt that the enormous pressure that he was under made it impossible for that he was under made it impossible for that he was under made it impossible for him to work on any kind of content goals him to work on any kind of content goals him to work on any kind of content goals and uh also many of the decisions that and uh also many of the decisions that and uh also many of the decisions that he made under this pressure seemed to be he made under this pressure seemed to be he made under this pressure seemed to be not very wise I don't think that as a not very wise I don't think that as a not very wise I don't think that as a CEO of a social media company you should CEO of a social media company you should CEO of a social media company you should have opinions in the cultural bar in have opinions in the cultural bar in have opinions in the cultural bar in public I think that's very short-sighted public I think that's very short-sighted public I think that's very short-sighted and it's I also suspect that it's not a and it's I also suspect that it's not a and it's I also suspect that it's not a good idea to good idea to good idea to um gram of all people yeah um over setting gram of all people yeah um over setting a mastodon link and I think Paul made a mastodon link and I think Paul made a mastodon link and I think Paul made this uh intentionally because he wanted this uh intentionally because he wanted this uh intentionally because he wanted to show Elon Musk that blocking people to show Elon Musk that blocking people to show Elon Musk that blocking people for setting a link is completely counter for setting a link is completely counter for setting a link is completely counter to any idea of free speech that he to any idea of free speech that he to any idea of free speech that he intended to bring to Twitter and intended to bring to Twitter and intended to bring to Twitter and basically seeing that basically seeing that basically seeing that um Elon was way less principled in his um Elon was way less principled in his um Elon was way less principled in his thinking there and is much more thinking there and is much more thinking there and is much more experimental and many of the things that experimental and many of the things that experimental and many of the things that he is trying he is trying he is trying um um um they've pen out very differently in they've pen out very differently in they've pen out very differently in Digital Society than they pen out in a Digital Society than they pen out in a Digital Society than they pen out in a car company because the effect is very car company because the effect is very car company because the effect is very different because everything that you do

different because everything that you do different because everything that you do in a digital Society is going to have in a digital Society is going to have in a digital Society is going to have real world cultural effects real world cultural effects real world cultural effects and so basically I find it quite and so basically I find it quite and so basically I find it quite regrettable that this guy is regrettable that this guy is regrettable that this guy is able to become de facto the pope but able to become de facto the pope but able to become de facto the pope but Twitter has more active members than the Twitter has more active members than the Twitter has more active members than the Catholic church and he doesn't get it Catholic church and he doesn't get it Catholic church and he doesn't get it the power and responsibility that he has the power and responsibility that he has the power and responsibility that he has and the ability to create something in a and the ability to create something in a and the ability to create something in a society that is lasting and that is society that is lasting and that is society that is lasting and that is producing a digital Agora in a way that producing a digital Agora in a way that producing a digital Agora in a way that has never existed before where we build has never existed before where we build has never existed before where we build a social network on top of a social a social network on top of a social a social network on top of a social network an actual Society on top of the network an actual Society on top of the network an actual Society on top of the algorithms algorithms algorithms so this is something that just hope so this is something that just hope so this is something that just hope still in the future and still in the still in the future and still in the still in the future and still in the cards but um cards but um cards but um it's something that exists in small it's something that exists in small it's something that exists in small parts I find that the corner of Twitter parts I find that the corner of Twitter parts I find that the corner of Twitter that I'm in is extremely Pleasant just that I'm in is extremely Pleasant just that I'm in is extremely Pleasant just when I take a few steps outside of it is when I take a few steps outside of it is when I take a few steps outside of it is not very wholesome anymore and the way not very wholesome anymore and the way not very wholesome anymore and the way in which people interact with strangers in which people interact with strangers in which people interact with strangers suggest that it's not a civilized suggest that it's not a civilized suggest that it's not a civilized society yet society yet society yet so as your as the number of people who so as your as the number of people who so as your as the number of people who follow you on Twitter expands follow you on Twitter expands follow you on Twitter expands you feel the burden you feel the burden you feel the burden of the uglier sides of humanity yes but of the uglier sides of humanity yes but of the uglier sides of humanity yes but there's also a similar thing in uh in there's also a similar thing in uh in there's also a similar thing in uh in the normal world that is if you become the normal world that is if you become the normal world that is if you become more influential if you have more status more influential if you have more status more influential if you have more status if you have more Fame in the real world if you have more Fame in the real world if you have more Fame in the real world you have uh you get lots of perks but you have uh you get lots of perks but you have uh you get lots of perks but you also uh have way less freedom in the you also uh have way less freedom in the you also uh have way less freedom in the way in which you interact with people way in which you interact with people way in which you interact with people especially with strangers because especially with strangers because especially with strangers because a certain percentage of people it's a a certain percentage of people it's a a certain percentage of people it's a small single digit perspective

small single digit perspective small single digit perspective percentage is nuts and dangerous and uh percentage is nuts and dangerous and uh percentage is nuts and dangerous and uh the more of those are looking at you the the more of those are looking at you the the more of those are looking at you the more of them might get ideas but what if more of them might get ideas but what if more of them might get ideas but what if the technology enables you to discover the technology enables you to discover the technology enables you to discover the majority of people to discover and the majority of people to discover and the majority of people to discover and connect efficiently and regularly with connect efficiently and regularly with connect efficiently and regularly with the majority of people who are actually the majority of people who are actually the majority of people who are actually really good I mean one of my really good I mean one of my really good I mean one of my sort of concerns with the platform my sort of concerns with the platform my sort of concerns with the platform my Twitter is Twitter is Twitter is there's a lot of really smart people out there's a lot of really smart people out there's a lot of really smart people out there a lot of smart people that there a lot of smart people that there a lot of smart people that disagree with me and with others between disagree with me and with others between disagree with me and with others between each other and I love that if the each other and I love that if the each other and I love that if the technology would bring those to the top technology would bring those to the top technology would bring those to the top the beautiful disagreements like uh the beautiful disagreements like uh the beautiful disagreements like uh intelligent squared type of debates intelligent squared type of debates intelligent squared type of debates there's a bunch of I mean one of my there's a bunch of I mean one of my there's a bunch of I mean one of my favorite things to listen to is favorite things to listen to is favorite things to listen to is arguments and arguments like high effort arguments and arguments like high effort arguments and arguments like high effort arguments with the respect and love arguments with the respect and love arguments with the respect and love underneath it but then it gets a little underneath it but then it gets a little underneath it but then it gets a little too heated but that kind of too heated too heated but that kind of too heated too heated but that kind of too heated which I've seen you participate in and I which I've seen you participate in and I which I've seen you participate in and I love that uh with Lee Corona with those love that uh with Lee Corona with those love that uh with Lee Corona with those kinds of folks and you go pretty hard kinds of folks and you go pretty hard kinds of folks and you go pretty hard like you get frustrated but it's all like you get frustrated but it's all like you get frustrated but it's all beautiful obviously I can't do this beautiful obviously I can't do this beautiful obviously I can't do this because uh we know each other yes and because uh we know each other yes and because uh we know each other yes and Lee is has the rare gift of being Lee is has the rare gift of being Lee is has the rare gift of being willing to be wrong in public Yeah so willing to be wrong in public Yeah so willing to be wrong in public Yeah so basically he has thoughts that are as basically he has thoughts that are as basically he has thoughts that are as wrong as the random thoughts of an wrong as the random thoughts of an wrong as the random thoughts of an average highly intelligent person but he average highly intelligent person but he average highly intelligent person but he blurts them out while not being sure if blurts them out while not being sure if blurts them out while not being sure if they're right and he enjoys doing that they're right and he enjoys doing that they're right and he enjoys doing that and once you understand that this is his and once you understand that this is his and once you understand that this is his game you don't get offended by him game you don't get offended by him game you don't get offended by him saying something that you think is so saying something that you think is so saying something that you think is so wrong but he's constantly passively

wrong but he's constantly passively wrong but he's constantly passively communicating a respect for the people communicating a respect for the people communicating a respect for the people he's talking with and for just basic he's talking with and for just basic he's talking with and for just basic humanity and truth and all that kind of humanity and truth and all that kind of humanity and truth and all that kind of stuff and there's a self-deprecating stuff and there's a self-deprecating stuff and there's a self-deprecating thing there's a bunch of like social thing there's a bunch of like social thing there's a bunch of like social skills you acquire that allow you to be skills you acquire that allow you to be skills you acquire that allow you to be a great debater a great argumenter like a great debater a great argumenter like a great debater a great argumenter like be wrong in public and explore ideas be wrong in public and explore ideas be wrong in public and explore ideas together in public when you disagree and together in public when you disagree and together in public when you disagree and if I would love for Twitter to elevate if I would love for Twitter to elevate if I would love for Twitter to elevate those folks Elevate those kinds of those folks Elevate those kinds of those folks Elevate those kinds of conversations it already does in some conversations it already does in some conversations it already does in some sense but uh also if it elevates them sense but uh also if it elevates them sense but uh also if it elevates them too much then you get this phenomenon too much then you get this phenomenon too much then you get this phenomenon Clubhouse where you always get dragged Clubhouse where you always get dragged Clubhouse where you always get dragged on stage and I found this very stressful on stage and I found this very stressful on stage and I found this very stressful because it was too intense yeah and I because it was too intense yeah and I because it was too intense yeah and I don't like to be dragged on stage all don't like to be dragged on stage all don't like to be dragged on stage all the time yeah I think once a week is the time yeah I think once a week is the time yeah I think once a week is enough and also when I met Lee the first enough and also when I met Lee the first enough and also when I met Lee the first time I found that a lot of people seem time I found that a lot of people seem time I found that a lot of people seem to be shocked by the fact that he was uh to be shocked by the fact that he was uh to be shocked by the fact that he was uh being very aggressive as their results being very aggressive as their results being very aggressive as their results that he didn't seem to show a lot of that he didn't seem to show a lot of that he didn't seem to show a lot of sensibility in in a way in which he was sensibility in in a way in which he was sensibility in in a way in which he was criticizing what they were doing and criticizing what they were doing and criticizing what they were doing and being dismissive of the work of others being dismissive of the work of others being dismissive of the work of others and uh that was not I think in any way a and uh that was not I think in any way a and uh that was not I think in any way a shortcoming of him because I noticed shortcoming of him because I noticed shortcoming of him because I noticed that he was much much more dismissive that he was much much more dismissive that he was much much more dismissive with respect of his own work it was his with respect of his own work it was his with respect of his own work it was his General stance and I felt that this General stance and I felt that this General stance and I felt that this General stance is creating a lot of General stance is creating a lot of General stance is creating a lot of liability for him because really a lot liability for him because really a lot liability for him because really a lot of people take offense at him being not of people take offense at him being not of people take offense at him being not like their Carnegie character who is like their Carnegie character who is like their Carnegie character who is always smooth and make sure that always smooth and make sure that always smooth and make sure that everybody likes them so I really respect

everybody likes them so I really respect everybody likes them so I really respect that he is willing to take that risk and that he is willing to take that risk and that he is willing to take that risk and to be wrong in public and to offend to be wrong in public and to offend to be wrong in public and to offend people and he doesn't do this in in any people and he doesn't do this in in any people and he doesn't do this in in any bad way it's just most people fear or bad way it's just most people fear or bad way it's just most people fear or not all people recognize this and so I not all people recognize this and so I not all people recognize this and so I can be much more aggressive with him can be much more aggressive with him can be much more aggressive with him than it can be with many other people than it can be with many other people than it can be with many other people who don't play the same game because he who don't play the same game because he who don't play the same game because he understands the way in the spirit in understands the way in the spirit in understands the way in the spirit in which I respond to him I think that's which I respond to him I think that's which I respond to him I think that's the fun and it's a beautiful game it's the fun and it's a beautiful game it's the fun and it's a beautiful game it's ultimately a productive one uh ultimately a productive one uh ultimately a productive one uh speaking of taking that risk he tweeted speaking of taking that risk he tweeted speaking of taking that risk he tweeted when you have the choice between being a when you have the choice between being a when you have the choice between being a Creator consumer or redistributor always Creator consumer or redistributor always Creator consumer or redistributor always go for creation Now not only does it go for creation Now not only does it go for creation Now not only does it lead to a more beautiful world but also lead to a more beautiful world but also lead to a more beautiful world but also to a much more satisfying life for to a much more satisfying life for to a much more satisfying life for yourself and don't get stuck preparing yourself and don't get stuck preparing yourself and don't get stuck preparing yourself for the journey the time is yourself for the journey the time is yourself for the journey the time is always now always now always now so let me ask for advice what advice so let me ask for advice what advice so let me ask for advice what advice would you give on how to become such a would you give on how to become such a would you give on how to become such a creator creator creator on Twitter in your own life on Twitter in your own life on Twitter in your own life I was very lucky to be alive at the time I was very lucky to be alive at the time I was very lucky to be alive at the time of the collapse of Eastern Germany and of the collapse of Eastern Germany and of the collapse of Eastern Germany and the transition into Western Germany and the transition into Western Germany and the transition into Western Germany and me and my friends and most of the people me and my friends and most of the people me and my friends and most of the people I knew and were East Germans and we were I knew and were East Germans and we were I knew and were East Germans and we were very poor because we didn't have money very poor because we didn't have money very poor because we didn't have money and all the capital was invested in and all the capital was invested in and all the capital was invested in Germany and they bought our factories Germany and they bought our factories Germany and they bought our factories and shut them down because they were and shut them down because they were and shut them down because they were mostly only interested in the market mostly only interested in the market mostly only interested in the market rather than creating new production rather than creating new production rather than creating new production capacity and so uh cities were poor and capacity and so uh cities were poor and capacity and so uh cities were poor and in this repair and we could not afford in this repair and we could not afford in this repair and we could not afford things and I could not afford to go into

things and I could not afford to go into things and I could not afford to go into a restaurant and order a meal there I a restaurant and order a meal there I a restaurant and order a meal there I would have to cook at home but I also would have to cook at home but I also would have to cook at home but I also thought why not just have a restaurant thought why not just have a restaurant thought why not just have a restaurant with my friends so we would open up a with my friends so we would open up a with my friends so we would open up a cafe with friends in a restaurant and we cafe with friends in a restaurant and we cafe with friends in a restaurant and we would cook for each other in these would cook for each other in these would cook for each other in these restaurants and also invite the general restaurants and also invite the general restaurants and also invite the general public and they could donate and public and they could donate and public and they could donate and eventually this became so big that we eventually this became so big that we eventually this became so big that we could turn this into uh some could turn this into uh some could turn this into uh some Incorporated form and it became regular Incorporated form and it became regular Incorporated form and it became regular restaurant at some point or we did the restaurant at some point or we did the restaurant at some point or we did the same thing with the music movies theater same thing with the music movies theater same thing with the music movies theater we would not be able to afford to pay we would not be able to afford to pay we would not be able to afford to pay um 12 marks to watch a movie but why not um 12 marks to watch a movie but why not um 12 marks to watch a movie but why not just create our own movie theater and just create our own movie theater and just create our own movie theater and then invite people to pay and we would then invite people to pay and we would then invite people to pay and we would rent the movies rent the movies rent the movies um in a way in which a movie theater um in a way in which a movie theater um in a way in which a movie theater does and but it would be a community does and but it would be a community does and but it would be a community movie theater then which everybody who movie theater then which everybody who movie theater then which everybody who wants to help can watch for free and wants to help can watch for free and wants to help can watch for free and builds this thing and renovates the builds this thing and renovates the builds this thing and renovates the building and so we ended up creating building and so we ended up creating building and so we ended up creating lots and lots of infrastructure and I lots and lots of infrastructure and I lots and lots of infrastructure and I think when you are young and you don't think when you are young and you don't think when you are young and you don't have money move to a place where this is have money move to a place where this is have money move to a place where this is still happening move to one of those still happening move to one of those still happening move to one of those places that are undeveloped and where places that are undeveloped and where places that are undeveloped and where you get critical mass of other people you get critical mass of other people you get critical mass of other people who are starting to build infrastructure who are starting to build infrastructure who are starting to build infrastructure to live in and that's super satisfying to live in and that's super satisfying to live in and that's super satisfying because you're not just creating because you're not just creating because you're not just creating infrastructure but we are creating a infrastructure but we are creating a infrastructure but we are creating a small society that is building culture small society that is building culture small society that is building culture and ways to interact with each other and and ways to interact with each other and and ways to interact with each other and that's much much more satisfying than that's much much more satisfying than that's much much more satisfying than going into some kind of chain and going into some kind of chain and going into some kind of chain and get your needs met by ordering food from get your needs met by ordering food from get your needs met by ordering food from this chain and so on so not just this chain and so on so not just this chain and so on so not just consuming culture but creating culture

consuming culture but creating culture consuming culture but creating culture and you don't always have that choice and you don't always have that choice and you don't always have that choice that's why I prefaced it when you do that's why I prefaced it when you do that's why I prefaced it when you do have the choice and there are many rules have the choice and there are many rules have the choice and there are many rules that need to be played like we need that need to be played like we need that need to be played like we need people who take care of radio people who take care of radio people who take care of radio distribution in society and so on but distribution in society and so on but distribution in society and so on but when you have the choice to create when you have the choice to create when you have the choice to create something always go for creation it's so something always go for creation it's so something always go for creation it's so much more satisfying and it also is this much more satisfying and it also is this much more satisfying and it also is this is what life is about I think yeah is what life is about I think yeah is what life is about I think yeah uh speaking of which you retweeted this uh speaking of which you retweeted this uh speaking of which you retweeted this meme meme meme of a life of a philosopher in a nutshell of a life of a philosopher in a nutshell of a life of a philosopher in a nutshell it's birth and death and in between it's birth and death and in between it's birth and death and in between it's a chubby guy and says why though um um what do you think is the answer to that what do you think is the answer to that what do you think is the answer to that well the answer is that everything that well the answer is that everything that well the answer is that everything that can exist might exist and in many ways can exist might exist and in many ways can exist might exist and in many ways you take an ecological perspective the you take an ecological perspective the you take an ecological perspective the same way as when you look at human same way as when you look at human same way as when you look at human opinions and cultures it's not that opinions and cultures it's not that opinions and cultures it's not that there is right and wrong opinions uh there is right and wrong opinions uh there is right and wrong opinions uh when you look at this from this when you look at this from this when you look at this from this ecological perspective but every opinion ecological perspective but every opinion ecological perspective but every opinion that fits between two human years might that fits between two human years might that fits between two human years might be between two human years and be between two human years and be between two human years and um so when I see in a strange opinion on um so when I see in a strange opinion on um so when I see in a strange opinion on social media it's not that I feel that I social media it's not that I feel that I social media it's not that I feel that I have a need to get upset it's often more have a need to get upset it's often more have a need to get upset it's often more that a oh there you are and and your that a oh there you are and and your that a oh there you are and and your opinion is incentivized then it's going opinion is incentivized then it's going opinion is incentivized then it's going to be abundant and this when you take to be abundant and this when you take to be abundant and this when you take this ecological perspective also on this ecological perspective also on this ecological perspective also on yourself and you realize you're just one yourself and you realize you're just one yourself and you realize you're just one of these mushrooms that are popping up of these mushrooms that are popping up of these mushrooms that are popping up and doing their thing and you can and doing their thing and you can and doing their thing and you can depending on where you chose to grow and depending on where you chose to grow and depending on where you chose to grow and where you happen to grow you can where you happen to grow you can where you happen to grow you can flourish or not doing this or that

flourish or not doing this or that flourish or not doing this or that strategy and it's still all the same strategy and it's still all the same strategy and it's still all the same life at some level it's all the same life at some level it's all the same life at some level it's all the same experience of being a conscious being in experience of being a conscious being in experience of being a conscious being in the world and you do have some choice the world and you do have some choice the world and you do have some choice about who you want to be more than any about who you want to be more than any about who you want to be more than any other animal has that to me is other animal has that to me is other animal has that to me is fascinating and so I think that rather fascinating and so I think that rather fascinating and so I think that rather than asking yourself what is the one way than asking yourself what is the one way than asking yourself what is the one way to be to be to be um think about what are the um think about what are the um think about what are the possibilities that I have what would be possibilities that I have what would be possibilities that I have what would be the most interesting way to be that I the most interesting way to be that I the most interesting way to be that I can be because everything is possible so can be because everything is possible so can be because everything is possible so you get to explore this not everything you get to explore this not everything you get to explore this not everything is possible many things fail most things is possible many things fail most things is possible many things fail most things Fair Fair Fair but uh often there are possibilities but uh often there are possibilities but uh often there are possibilities that we are not seeing especially if we that we are not seeing especially if we that we are not seeing especially if we choose who we are yosha you're one of my favorite humans yosha you're one of my favorite humans in this world Consciousness is to merge in this world Consciousness is to merge in this world Consciousness is to merge with for a brief moment of time it's with for a brief moment of time it's with for a brief moment of time it's always an honor it always blows my mind always an honor it always blows my mind always an honor it always blows my mind it will take me days if not weeks to it will take me days if not weeks to it will take me days if not weeks to recover I and I I already miss our chats I and I I already miss our chats um thank you so much thank you so much um thank you so much thank you so much um thank you so much thank you so much for uh speaking with me so many times for uh speaking with me so many times for uh speaking with me so many times thank you so much for all the ideas you thank you so much for all the ideas you thank you so much for all the ideas you put out into the world and put out into the world and put out into the world and um I'm a huge fan of following you now um I'm a huge fan of following you now um I'm a huge fan of following you now in this interesting weird time but going in this interesting weird time but going in this interesting weird time but going through with AI so through with AI so through with AI so um thank you again for talking today um thank you again for talking today um thank you again for talking today thank you Alex for this conversation I thank you Alex for this conversation I thank you Alex for this conversation I enjoyed it very much enjoyed it very much enjoyed it very much thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with yoshibak to support

conversation with yoshibak to support conversation with yoshibak to support this podcast please check out our this podcast please check out our this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now let sponsors in the description and now let sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from the me leave you with some words from the me leave you with some words from the psychologist Carl Jung psychologist Carl Jung psychologist Carl Jung one does not become enlightened by one does not become enlightened by one does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light imagining figures of light imagining figures of light but by making the darkness conscious but by making the darkness conscious but by making the darkness conscious the latter procedure however is the latter procedure however is the latter procedure however is disagreeable and therefore not popular disagreeable and therefore not popular disagreeable and therefore not popular thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see you next time