Mark Cuban: Shark Tank, DEI & Wokeism Debate, Elon Musk, Politics & Drugs | Lex Fridman Podcast #422

the person who controls the algorithm the person who controls the algorithm controls the world right and if you are controls the world right and if you are controls the world right and if you are committed to one specific platform as committed to one specific platform as committed to one specific platform as your singular source of information or your singular source of information or your singular source of information or Affiliated platforms then whoever Affiliated platforms then whoever Affiliated platforms then whoever controls the algorithm or the controls the algorithm or the controls the algorithm or the programming there controls programming there controls programming there controls you the following is a conversation with you the following is a conversation with you the following is a conversation with Mark cubin a multi-billionaire Mark cubin a multi-billionaire Mark cubin a multi-billionaire businessman investor and star of the businessman investor and star of the businessman investor and star of the series Shark Tank longtime principal series Shark Tank longtime principal series Shark Tank longtime principal owner of the Dallas Mavericks and is owner of the Dallas Mavericks and is owner of the Dallas Mavericks and is someone who is unafraid to get into someone who is unafraid to get into someone who is unafraid to get into frequent battles on X most recently over frequent battles on X most recently over frequent battles on X most recently over topics of Dei wokeism gender and topics of Dei wokeism gender and topics of Dei wokeism gender and identity politics with the likes of Elon identity politics with the likes of Elon identity politics with the likes of Elon Musk and Jordan Peterson this is Alex Musk and Jordan Peterson this is Alex Musk and Jordan Peterson this is Alex Freedman podcast to support it please Freedman podcast to support it please Freedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors in the check out our sponsors in the check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's Mark Mark Mark cubin you've started many businesses cubin you've started many businesses cubin you've started many businesses invested in many businesses heard a lot invested in many businesses heard a lot invested in many businesses heard a lot of pitches privately and on Shark Tank of pitches privately and on Shark Tank of pitches privately and on Shark Tank so you're the perfect person to ask what so you're the perfect person to ask what so you're the perfect person to ask what makes a great makes a great makes a great entrepreneur somebody who's curious they entrepreneur somebody who's curious they entrepreneur somebody who's curious they want to keep on learning because want to keep on learning because want to keep on learning because business is ever changing it's never business is ever changing it's never business is ever changing it's never static um somebody who's agile because static um somebody who's agile because static um somebody who's agile because as you learn new things and the as you learn new things and the as you learn new things and the environment around you changes you have environment around you changes you have environment around you changes you have to be able to adapt and make the changes to be able to adapt and make the changes to be able to adapt and make the changes um and somebody who can sell because no um and somebody who can sell because no um and somebody who can sell because no business has ever survived without sales business has ever survived without sales business has ever survived without sales and as an entrepreneur who's creating in and as an entrepreneur who's creating in and as an entrepreneur who's creating in a company whatever your product or a company whatever your product or a company whatever your product or service is if that's not the most

service is if that's not the most service is if that's not the most important thing and you're just dying important thing and you're just dying important thing and you're just dying and and excited to tell people about it and and excited to tell people about it and and excited to tell people about it then you're not going to succeed but then you're not going to succeed but then you're not going to succeed but it's also a skill thing how do you sell it's also a skill thing how do you sell it's also a skill thing how do you sell what do you mean by selling selling is what do you mean by selling selling is what do you mean by selling selling is just helping I've always looked at it just helping I've always looked at it just helping I've always looked at it about putting myself in the shoes of about putting myself in the shoes of about putting myself in the shoes of another person and asking a simple another person and asking a simple another person and asking a simple question can I help this person can my question can I help this person can my question can I help this person can my product help them from the time I was 12 product help them from the time I was 12 product help them from the time I was 12 years old selling garbage bags door too years old selling garbage bags door too years old selling garbage bags door too and just asking a simple question do you and just asking a simple question do you and just asking a simple question do you use garbage bags do you need garbage use garbage bags do you need garbage use garbage bags do you need garbage bags well let me save you some time I'll bags well let me save you some time I'll bags well let me save you some time I'll bring them to your house and drop them bring them to your house and drop them bring them to your house and drop them off to you know streaming um why do we off to you know streaming um why do we off to you know streaming um why do we need streaming when we have TV and radio need streaming when we have TV and radio need streaming when we have TV and radio well you can't get access to your TV and well you can't get access to your TV and well you can't get access to your TV and radio everywhere you go so we kind of radio everywhere you go so we kind of radio everywhere you go so we kind of break down Geographic and physical break down Geographic and physical break down Geographic and physical barriers and you know Cost Plus drugs barriers and you know Cost Plus drugs barriers and you know Cost Plus drugs you know what's the product that we you know what's the product that we you know what's the product that we actually sell we sell trust um in a actually sell we sell trust um in a actually sell we sell trust um in a simplistic approach we buy drugs and simplistic approach we buy drugs and simplistic approach we buy drugs and sell drugs but we add transparency to it sell drugs but we add transparency to it sell drugs but we add transparency to it and bringing transparency to an industry and bringing transparency to an industry and bringing transparency to an industry is is a differentiation and it helps is is a differentiation and it helps is is a differentiation and it helps people trust in an industry that's people trust in an industry that's people trust in an industry that's highly lacking in trust exactly okay so highly lacking in trust exactly okay so highly lacking in trust exactly okay so what's what's the trick to selling what's what's the trick to selling what's what's the trick to selling garbage bags let's go back there 12 garbage bags let's go back there 12 garbage bags let's go back there 12 years old what I mean is it just your years old what I mean is it just your years old what I mean is it just your natural Charisma I guess a good question natural Charisma I guess a good question natural Charisma I guess a good question to ask are you born with it or can you to ask are you born with it or can you to ask are you born with it or can you develop it oh you can definitely develop develop it oh you can definitely develop develop it oh you can definitely develop it yeah I mean because selling garbage it yeah I mean because selling garbage it yeah I mean because selling garbage bags door to door was easy right because bags door to door was easy right because bags door to door was easy right because like 12-year-old Mark going hi my name like 12-year-old Mark going hi my name like 12-year-old Mark going hi my name is Mark do you use garbage bags you know is Mark do you use garbage bags you know is Mark do you use garbage bags you know what the answer is going to be right can what the answer is going to be right can what the answer is going to be right can I just drop them off for you you know I just drop them off for you you know I just drop them off for you you know once a week whenever you need them you once a week whenever you need them you once a week whenever you need them you just call and I'll bring him down sure just call and I'll bring him down sure just call and I'll bring him down sure so that was easy but I'm sure you've so that was easy but I'm sure you've so that was easy but I'm sure you've been rejected oh yeah of course not

been rejected oh yeah of course not been rejected oh yeah of course not everybody says yes what's your what was everybody says yes what's your what was everybody says yes what's your what was your percentage I don't remember but your percentage I don't remember but your percentage I don't remember but it's pretty close to 100% oh okay never it's pretty close to 100% oh okay never it's pretty close to 100% oh okay never so that's why you don't remember yeah so that's why you don't remember yeah so that's why you don't remember yeah right because who's going to say no to a right because who's going to say no to a right because who's going to say no to a 12-year-old kid who's going to save them 12-year-old kid who's going to save them 12-year-old kid who's going to save them time and money but you know typically my time and money but you know typically my time and money but you know typically my career where I've started companies it's career where I've started companies it's career where I've started companies it's to do something that other people aren't to do something that other people aren't to do something that other people aren't doing whether it was connecting PCS and doing whether it was connecting PCS and doing whether it was connecting PCS and to local area networks and at micro to local area networks and at micro to local area networks and at micro Solutions and you know the salesmanship Solutions and you know the salesmanship Solutions and you know the salesmanship was walking into a company and just was walking into a company and just was walking into a company and just saying look talk to me and I can help saying look talk to me and I can help saying look talk to me and I can help you improve your productivity and your you improve your productivity and your you improve your productivity and your profitability is that important to you profitability is that important to you profitability is that important to you and the answer is obviously always yes and the answer is obviously always yes and the answer is obviously always yes and then the question is can I do the and then the question is can I do the and then the question is can I do the job and can I do it cost effectively and job and can I do it cost effectively and job and can I do it cost effectively and so you didn't have to be a born so you didn't have to be a born so you didn't have to be a born salesperson to be able to ask those salesperson to be able to ask those salesperson to be able to ask those questions but you have to be able to be questions but you have to be able to be questions but you have to be able to be willing to put in the time to learn that willing to put in the time to learn that willing to put in the time to learn that business and that's the hardest part I'm business and that's the hardest part I'm business and that's the hardest part I'm sure there's a skill thing to it too in sure there's a skill thing to it too in sure there's a skill thing to it too in like how you solve the puzz like how you solve the puzz like how you solve the puzz of communicating with a person and of communicating with a person and of communicating with a person and convincing them yeah I mean there's convincing them yeah I mean there's convincing them yeah I mean there's skill from the perspective that I read skill from the perspective that I read skill from the perspective that I read like a maniac then like now you can give like a maniac then like now you can give like a maniac then like now you can give me an example of any type of business me an example of any type of business me an example of any type of business and it'll take me two seconds to figure and it'll take me two seconds to figure and it'll take me two seconds to figure out how they make money and how I can out how they make money and how I can out how they make money and how I can make them more um productive and I think make them more um productive and I think make them more um productive and I think that's probably my biggest skill being that's probably my biggest skill being that's probably my biggest skill being able to just drill down to what the able to just drill down to what the able to just drill down to what the actual need is if any and then you know actual need is if any and then you know actual need is if any and then you know from there being able to say well if from there being able to say well if from there being able to say well if this is what this company does and this this is what this company does and this this is what this company does and this is what their goal is how can I is what their goal is how can I is what their goal is how can I introduce something new that they introduce something new that they introduce something new that they haven't seen before and is that a haven't seen before and is that a haven't seen before and is that a business that I can create and make business that I can create and make business that I can create and make money from so figure out how this kind

money from so figure out how this kind money from so figure out how this kind of business makes money in the present of business makes money in the present of business makes money in the present and then figure out is there a way to and then figure out is there a way to and then figure out is there a way to make more money in the future by make more money in the future by make more money in the future by introducing a totally new kind of thing introducing a totally new kind of thing introducing a totally new kind of thing correct and you can just do that with correct and you can just do that with correct and you can just do that with anything pretty much yeah and you think anything pretty much yeah and you think anything pretty much yeah and you think you're born with that no I worked at it you're born with that no I worked at it you're born with that no I worked at it because you know going back to what I because you know going back to what I because you know going back to what I said earlier about curiosity you have to said earlier about curiosity you have to said earlier about curiosity you have to be insanely curious because the world is be insanely curious because the world is be insanely curious because the world is always changing my dad used to say we always changing my dad used to say we always changing my dad used to say we don't live in the world we were born don't live in the world we were born don't live in the world we were born into you know which is absolutely true into you know which is absolutely true into you know which is absolutely true if you're not a voracious consumer of if you're not a voracious consumer of if you're not a voracious consumer of information then you're not going to be information then you're not going to be information then you're not going to be able to keep up and no matter what your able to keep up and no matter what your able to keep up and no matter what your sales skills or ability are they're sales skills or ability are they're sales skills or ability are they're going to be useless what did you learn going to be useless what did you learn going to be useless what did you learn about life from your dad you mentioned about life from your dad you mentioned about life from your dad you mentioned your dad my dad did upholstery on cars your dad my dad did upholstery on cars your dad my dad did upholstery on cars you know got up went to work every you know got up went to work every you know got up went to work every morning at 7:00 came back 5 or 6 7:00 morning at 7:00 came back 5 or 6 7:00 morning at 7:00 came back 5 or 6 7:00 exhausted and I learned to be nice I exhausted and I learned to be nice I exhausted and I learned to be nice I learned to be caring I learned to be learned to be caring I learned to be learned to be caring I learned to be accepting just you know qualities that I accepting just you know qualities that I accepting just you know qualities that I think he really tried to pass on to think he really tried to pass on to think he really tried to pass on to myself and my two younger brothers were myself and my two younger brothers were myself and my two younger brothers were just be a good human you know and I just be a good human you know and I just be a good human you know and I think you know he didn't have business think you know he didn't have business think you know he didn't have business experience so as I got into business he experience so as I got into business he experience so as I got into business he would just you know say sorry Mark I would just you know say sorry Mark I would just you know say sorry Mark I can't help you you know I don't can't help you you know I don't can't help you you know I don't understand what you're doing you never understand what you're doing you never understand what you're doing you never went neither one of my parents had gone went neither one of my parents had gone went neither one of my parents had gone to college um you've got to figure it to college um you've got to figure it to college um you've got to figure it out for yourself but he was also very out for yourself but he was also very out for yourself but he was also very insistent that um he you know he worked insistent that um he you know he worked insistent that um he you know he worked at a company called Regency products at a company called Regency products at a company called Regency products where they did upholstery on cars and he where they did upholstery on cars and he where they did upholstery on cars and he would bring me there to sweep the floors would bring me there to sweep the floors would bring me there to sweep the floors not because he wanted me to learn that not because he wanted me to learn that not because he wanted me to learn that business because he wanted me to learn business because he wanted me to learn business because he wanted me to learn how backbreaking that work was I mean he how backbreaking that work was I mean he how backbreaking that work was I mean he lost an eye in an accident at work um a

lost an eye in an accident at work um a lost an eye in an accident at work um a staple broke um and he the only thing he staple broke um and he the only thing he staple broke um and he the only thing he wanted from my brothers and I was for us wanted from my brothers and I was for us wanted from my brothers and I was for us to never have to work like that to go to to never have to work like that to go to to never have to work like that to go to college to figure it out you said to be college to figure it out you said to be college to figure it out you said to be nice that said you also said that you nice that said you also said that you nice that said you also said that you when you were first starting a business when you were first starting a business when you were first starting a business you were a bit more of an asshole than you were a bit more of an asshole than you were a bit more of an asshole than you wish you would have been absolutely you wish you would have been absolutely you wish you would have been absolutely yeah yeah because I was more of a yeller yeah yeah because I was more of a yeller yeah yeah because I was more of a yeller I was you know I no I was you know I no I was you know I no really yeah what you see on the really yeah what you see on the really yeah what you see on the sidelines you know with me at a Mavs sidelines you know with me at a Mavs sidelines you know with me at a Mavs game maybe a little bit but I also game maybe a little bit but I also game maybe a little bit but I also didn't have any patience for somebody I didn't have any patience for somebody I didn't have any patience for somebody I thought wasn't using my kind of common thought wasn't using my kind of common thought wasn't using my kind of common sense right because I was always on the sense right because I was always on the sense right because I was always on the go go go go go when I particularly when go go go go go when I particularly when go go go go go when I particularly when I was younger just trying to be I was younger just trying to be I was younger just trying to be successful trying to get to the point successful trying to get to the point successful trying to get to the point where I had Independence and I would where I had Independence and I would where I had Independence and I would tell this to people you know either tell this to people you know either tell this to people you know either you're speeding up and getting on the you're speeding up and getting on the you're speeding up and getting on the train or you know we'll stop and drop train or you know we'll stop and drop train or you know we'll stop and drop you off at the next station but let's go you off at the next station but let's go you off at the next station but let's go where you go did you have trouble with where you go did you have trouble with where you go did you have trouble with the higher fast Fire fast part of the higher fast Fire fast part of the higher fast Fire fast part of running a business yeah always cuz I running a business yeah always cuz I running a business yeah always cuz I hated firing people because it meant one hated firing people because it meant one hated firing people because it meant one it was an admission of a mistake in the it was an admission of a mistake in the it was an admission of a mistake in the hiring and two the salesperson of me hiring and two the salesperson of me hiring and two the salesperson of me always wanted to come out ahead and I always wanted to come out ahead and I always wanted to come out ahead and I was always horrible at firing but I was always horrible at firing but I was always horrible at firing but I always partnered with people who had no always partnered with people who had no always partnered with people who had no problem with it so I always delegated problem with it so I always delegated problem with it so I always delegated that well this a tricky thing when you that well this a tricky thing when you that well this a tricky thing when you when you're working with somebody and when you're working with somebody and when you're working with somebody and they're not quite there and you have to they're not quite there and you have to they're not quite there and you have to decide are they going to step up and decide are they going to step up and decide are they going to step up and grow into the person that that's the grow into the person that that's the grow into the person that that's the right or they're not and in that grayer right or they're not and in that grayer right or they're not and in that grayer area is probably where you have to fire area is probably where you have to fire area is probably where you have to fire was hard yeah for sure because you know

was hard yeah for sure because you know was hard yeah for sure because you know there it's obviously a failure somewhere there it's obviously a failure somewhere there it's obviously a failure somewhere in the process you know what did we do in the process you know what did we do in the process you know what did we do wrong and when I would interview people wrong and when I would interview people wrong and when I would interview people for for for jobs I mean 99% of the people I've ever jobs I mean 99% of the people I've ever jobs I mean 99% of the people I've ever interviewed I've wanted to hire because interviewed I've wanted to hire because interviewed I've wanted to hire because in my mind it was like okay I can figure in my mind it was like okay I can figure in my mind it was like okay I can figure out how to make this person work right out how to make this person work right out how to make this person work right and and then they wouldn't and then you and and then they wouldn't and then you and and then they wouldn't and then you know people at the company be like Mark know people at the company be like Mark know people at the company be like Mark you suck at this you know and so I I you suck at this you know and so I I you suck at this you know and so I I always delegated to hiring yeah I mean always delegated to hiring yeah I mean always delegated to hiring yeah I mean I'm the same I see the potential of I'm the same I see the potential of I'm the same I see the potential of people I see the beauty in people and people I see the beauty in people and people I see the beauty in people and which is which is a great way to live which is which is a great way to live which is which is a great way to live life but when you're running a company life but when you're running a company life but when you're running a company is a different thing it's different and is a different thing it's different and is a different thing it's different and you got to know what you're good at what you got to know what you're good at what you got to know what you're good at what you're bad at right I I was good at you you're bad at right I I was good at you you're bad at right I I was good at you know I was a ready fire aim guy and I know I was a ready fire aim guy and I know I was a ready fire aim guy and I always partnered with people who were always partnered with people who were always partnered with people who were very anal and perfectionist because very anal and perfectionist because very anal and perfectionist because where I could just go go go go go go where I could just go go go go go go where I could just go go go go go go they would keep me in keep me inside the they would keep me in keep me inside the they would keep me in keep me inside the baselines they would do the due baselines they would do the due baselines they would do the due diligence I supp or just yeah the detail diligence I supp or just yeah the detail diligence I supp or just yeah the detail work to dot the eyes and the cross the work to dot the eyes and the cross the work to dot the eyes and the cross the tees uh what does it take to take that tees uh what does it take to take that tees uh what does it take to take that First Leap into starting a business First Leap into starting a business First Leap into starting a business that's the hardest part it really that's the hardest part it really that's the hardest part it really depends on your personal circumstances depends on your personal circumstances depends on your personal circumstances like I got fired I mean I was sleeping like I got fired I mean I was sleeping like I got fired I mean I was sleeping on the floor six guys in a three-bedroom on the floor six guys in a three-bedroom on the floor six guys in a three-bedroom apartment so I couldn't go any apartment so I couldn't go any apartment so I couldn't go any lower so there was no downside yeah lower so there was no downside yeah lower so there was no downside yeah there was no downside for me starting a there was no downside for me starting a there was no downside for me starting a business and it was just like you know I business and it was just like you know I business and it was just like you know I was 25 when we started micro Solutions was 25 when we started micro Solutions was 25 when we started micro Solutions and you know I just gotten fired and it and you know I just gotten fired and it and you know I just gotten fired and it was like look I'm I'm a lousy employee was like look I'm I'm a lousy employee was like look I'm I'm a lousy employee um I'm going to just start going to some um I'm going to just start going to some um I'm going to just start going to some of my prospects that I had in my my job of my prospects that I had in my my job of my prospects that I had in my my job and asked them to front the money that I and asked them to front the money that I and asked them to front the money that I needed to install some software and

needed to install some software and needed to install some software and found this company architectural found this company architectural found this company architectural lighting who put up $500 for me that lighting who put up $500 for me that lighting who put up $500 for me that allowed me to buy software and have 50% allowed me to buy software and have 50% allowed me to buy software and have 50% margins and you know that's how I margins and you know that's how I margins and you know that's how I started my company but like by way of started my company but like by way of started my company but like by way of advice would you say I mean it's a advice would you say I mean it's a advice would you say I mean it's a terrifying thing yeah I mean you've got terrifying thing yeah I mean you've got terrifying thing yeah I mean you've got to be in a position where you're to be in a position where you're to be in a position where you're confident you know I get emails and by confident you know I get emails and by confident you know I get emails and by people all the time you know what kind people all the time you know what kind people all the time you know what kind of business should I start that tells me of business should I start that tells me of business should I start that tells me you're not ready to start a business you're not ready to start a business you're not ready to start a business right either you're prepared and you right either you're prepared and you right either you're prepared and you know it or you don't you know in in the know it or you don't you know in in the know it or you don't you know in in the United States with the American dream United States with the American dream United States with the American dream everybody kind everybody kind everybody kind of always looks at themselves and say of always looks at themselves and say of always looks at themselves and say okay you know I have this idea right and okay you know I have this idea right and okay you know I have this idea right and then you go through this process of then you go through this process of then you go through this process of saying okay you know you talk to your saying okay you know you talk to your saying okay you know you talk to your friends or family what do you think and friends or family what do you think and friends or family what do you think and then almost always oh it's a great idea then almost always oh it's a great idea then almost always oh it's a great idea right then you go on Google and you say right then you go on Google and you say right then you go on Google and you say oh my God no one else is doing it oh my God no one else is doing it oh my God no one else is doing it without thinking you know 10 companies without thinking you know 10 companies without thinking you know 10 companies had gone out of business trying the same had gone out of business trying the same had gone out of business trying the same thing but okay it's on Google and then thing but okay it's on Google and then thing but okay it's on Google and then people stop right because that next step people stop right because that next step people stop right because that next step means okay I have to change what I'm means okay I have to change what I'm means okay I have to change what I'm doing in my life and that's not easy for doing in my life and that's not easy for doing in my life and that's not easy for 99% of the people some people look at 99% of the people some people look at 99% of the people some people look at that as an opportunity get excited about that as an opportunity get excited about that as an opportunity get excited about it some people get terrified because it some people get terrified because it some people get terrified because it's okay maybe I'm comfortable maybe I it's okay maybe I'm comfortable maybe I it's okay maybe I'm comfortable maybe I have have have responsibilities and so whatever your responsibilities and so whatever your responsibilities and so whatever your circumstances are if you want to take circumstances are if you want to take circumstances are if you want to take that next step you have to be able to that next step you have to be able to that next step you have to be able to deal with the consequences of changing deal with the consequences of changing deal with the consequences of changing your circumstances and that's the first your circumstances and that's the first your circumstances and that's the first thing you know do you save money you thing you know do you save money you thing you know do you save money you know so you have you know if you have a know so you have you know if you have a know so you have you know if you have a job do you have a mortgage do you have a job do you have a mortgage do you have a job do you have a mortgage do you have a family you got to save money you can't family you got to save money you can't family you got to save money you can't just walk you know I mean they've got to

just walk you know I mean they've got to just walk you know I mean they've got to eat and they've got to have shelter but eat and they've got to have shelter but eat and they've got to have shelter but on the other side of the coin if you've on the other side of the coin if you've on the other side of the coin if you've got nothing it's the perfect time to got nothing it's the perfect time to got nothing it's the perfect time to start a business yeah desperation is a start a business yeah desperation is a start a business yeah desperation is a good Catalyst for starting a business good Catalyst for starting a business good Catalyst for starting a business but in many cases the decision as you're but in many cases the decision as you're but in many cases the decision as you're talking about you're going to have to talking about you're going to have to talking about you're going to have to make is to leave a job that's providing make is to leave a job that's providing make is to leave a job that's providing some degree of comfort already so and I some degree of comfort already so and I some degree of comfort already so and I suppose when you're sleeping on the suppose when you're sleeping on the suppose when you're sleeping on the floor and there's six guys it's a little floor and there's six guys it's a little floor and there's six guys it's a little bit easier it's really easy right bit easier it's really easy right bit easier it's really easy right particularly when you get fired and you particularly when you get fired and you particularly when you get fired and you don't have a job you know and you're don't have a job you know and you're don't have a job you know and you're looking at bartending at night to try to looking at bartending at night to try to looking at bartending at night to try to pay the bills and so um it wasn't hard pay the bills and so um it wasn't hard pay the bills and so um it wasn't hard for me but to your point it it really for me but to your point it it really for me but to your point it it really comes down to preparation you know if comes down to preparation you know if comes down to preparation you know if it's important enough to you you'll save it's important enough to you you'll save it's important enough to you you'll save the money you'll give up you know the money you'll give up you know the money you'll give up you know whatever it is you need to give up to whatever it is you need to give up to whatever it is you need to give up to put the money aside um if you have put the money aside um if you have put the money aside um if you have obligations um you'll put in the work to obligations um you'll put in the work to obligations um you'll put in the work to learn as much as you can about that learn as much as you can about that learn as much as you can about that industry so that when you start your industry so that when you start your industry so that when you start your business you're prepared and you can business you're prepared and you can business you're prepared and you can always you know at night on weekends always you know at night on weekends always you know at night on weekends whenever you find time lunch start whenever you find time lunch start whenever you find time lunch start making the calls to find out if people making the calls to find out if people making the calls to find out if people will write you a check you know or will write you a check you know or will write you a check you know or transfer you money to buy whatever it is transfer you money to buy whatever it is transfer you money to buy whatever it is you're selling and by doing those things you're selling and by doing those things you're selling and by doing those things you can put yourself in a position to you can put yourself in a position to you can put yourself in a position to succeed it's where people just think succeed it's where people just think succeed it's where people just think okay you know gono I'm leaving off the okay you know gono I'm leaving off the okay you know gono I'm leaving off the edge of a cliff and I'm starting a edge of a cliff and I'm starting a edge of a cliff and I'm starting a business that's tough but sometimes business that's tough but sometimes business that's tough but sometimes that's like the way you do it though that's like the way you do it though that's like the way you do it though there's always examples of any situation there's always examples of any situation there's always examples of any situation or scenario right right but I mean or scenario right right but I mean or scenario right right but I mean anecdotal evidence for everything yeah anecdotal evidence for everything yeah anecdotal evidence for everything yeah but if you're if you're going into a new but if you're if you're going into a new but if you're if you're going into a new business you're going to have business you're going to have business you're going to have competition unless you're really really competition unless you're really really competition unless you're really really really really really lucky and that really really really lucky and that really really really lucky and that competition is not going to just say competition is not going to just say competition is not going to just say okay let Lex or Mark just kick her ass

okay let Lex or Mark just kick her ass okay let Lex or Mark just kick her ass yeah and so you've got to be prepared to yeah and so you've got to be prepared to yeah and so you've got to be prepared to how you're going to deal with that how you're going to deal with that how you're going to deal with that competition what what do you think that competition what what do you think that competition what what do you think that is about America that has so many is about America that has so many is about America that has so many people who have that dream and act on people who have that dream and act on people who have that dream and act on that dream of starting a business you that dream of starting a business you that dream of starting a business you know I think know I think know I think we've just got a culture of consumption we've just got a culture of consumption we've just got a culture of consumption and more you know and to get more um and more you know and to get more um and more you know and to get more um you've got to you know creating a you've got to you know creating a you've got to you know creating a business gives you the greatest business gives you the greatest business gives you the greatest potential upside and the greatest potential upside and the greatest potential upside and the greatest leverage on your time um but it also leverage on your time um but it also leverage on your time um but it also creates the most risk so that capitalist creates the most risk so that capitalist creates the most risk so that capitalist machine there's a lot of elements by machine there's a lot of elements by machine there's a lot of elements by contrast uh the respect for the law like contrast uh the respect for the law like contrast uh the respect for the law like an entrepreneur can trust that if they an entrepreneur can trust that if they an entrepreneur can trust that if they pull it off the law will protect them pull it off the law will protect them pull it off the law will protect them they won't they won't they won't hopefully that's still the case Yeah hopefully that's still the case Yeah hopefully that's still the case Yeah well yeah there's always uh yeah USS well yeah there's always uh yeah USS well yeah there's always uh yeah USS other countries you're right right so US other countries you're right right so US other countries you're right right so US versus other countries like Joe Biden of versus other countries like Joe Biden of versus other countries like Joe Biden of all people said to me um it was at an all people said to me um it was at an all people said to me um it was at an entrepreneurship conference that when he entrepreneurship conference that when he entrepreneurship conference that when he was vice president he had put together was vice president he had put together was vice president he had put together and we had gone up there from bunch of and we had gone up there from bunch of and we had gone up there from bunch of us from Shark Tank to talk to young us from Shark Tank to talk to young us from Shark Tank to talk to young entrepreneurs from around the world and entrepreneurs from around the world and entrepreneurs from around the world and he said to me Mark you know the one he said to me Mark you know the one he said to me Mark you know the one thing that separate I've been to every thing that separate I've been to every thing that separate I've been to every country around the world and the one country around the world and the one country around the world and the one thing that separates us is thing that separates us is thing that separates us is entrepreneurship we're the the most entrepreneurship we're the the most entrepreneurship we're the the most entrepreneurial country in the world and entrepreneurial country in the world and entrepreneurial country in the world and there's no one else who's even close and there's no one else who's even close and there's no one else who's even close and when you look at the origin of our big when you look at the origin of our big when you look at the origin of our big you know the biggest companies in the you know the biggest companies in the you know the biggest companies in the world for the most part there's an world for the most part there's an world for the most part there's an American origin story somewhere behind American origin story somewhere behind American origin story somewhere behind there and I think you know that just

there and I think you know that just there and I think you know that just gets perpetuated on itself we see those gets perpetuated on itself we see those gets perpetuated on itself we see those Horatio Al aler stories we see um Horatio Al aler stories we see um Horatio Al aler stories we see um examples of the Jeff Bezos of the world examples of the Jeff Bezos of the world examples of the Jeff Bezos of the world the Steve Jobs in the world and those the Steve Jobs in the world and those the Steve Jobs in the world and those are the types of people we we want to are the types of people we we want to are the types of people we we want to copy yeah want to be really careful and copy yeah want to be really careful and copy yeah want to be really careful and try to really figure out what that is try to really figure out what that is try to really figure out what that is because we don't want to lose that for because we don't want to lose that for because we don't want to lose that for sure we want to protect that whatever sure we want to protect that whatever sure we want to protect that whatever you know and that's a lot of the you know and that's a lot of the you know and that's a lot of the discussions about what's the right way discussions about what's the right way discussions about what's the right way to do government big government small to do government big government small to do government big government small government what's the right policies government what's the right policies government what's the right policies what but also culture like who we what but also culture like who we what but also culture like who we celebrate one of the things that celebrate one of the things that celebrate one of the things that troubles me is that we don't enough troubles me is that we don't enough troubles me is that we don't enough celebrate the uh the entrepreneurs that celebrate the uh the entrepreneurs that celebrate the uh the entrepreneurs that take risks and the entrepreneurs that take risks and the entrepreneurs that take risks and the entrepreneurs that succeed it seems like success especially succeed it seems like success especially succeed it seems like success especially when it comes with wealth is uh when it comes with wealth is uh when it comes with wealth is uh immediately matched with distrust and immediately matched with distrust and immediately matched with distrust and criticism and all that kind ofu yeah criticism and all that kind ofu yeah criticism and all that kind ofu yeah it's changing for sure because you know it's changing for sure because you know it's changing for sure because you know you can go back just 12 years right you can go back just 12 years right you can go back just 12 years right traditional media dominated let's say to traditional media dominated let's say to traditional media dominated let's say to through 2012 you know that was the peak through 2012 you know that was the peak through 2012 you know that was the peak of linear television you know newspapers of linear television you know newspapers of linear television you know newspapers weren't as strong but they still had weren't as strong but they still had weren't as strong but they still had some some breath and depth to them um some some breath and depth to them um some some breath and depth to them um and then social media comes along and and then social media comes along and and then social media comes along and everybody gets to play in their own sand everybody gets to play in their own sand everybody gets to play in their own sand boox and share opinions with people who boox and share opinions with people who boox and share opinions with people who think just like them and that and it think just like them and that and it think just like them and that and it also gives them the opportunity to also gives them the opportunity to also gives them the opportunity to amplify um those feelings and I think amplify um those feelings and I think amplify um those feelings and I think that's where celebrating entrepreneurs that's where celebrating entrepreneurs that's where celebrating entrepreneurs really started to subside some there really started to subside some there really started to subside some there were always people who were Progressive were always people who were Progressive were always people who were Progressive that were like billionaires are bad or that were like billionaires are bad or that were like billionaires are bad or millionaires are bad depending on the millionaires are bad depending on the millionaires are bad depending on the time period but you didn't really see it

time period but you didn't really see it time period but you didn't really see it on an ongoing basis right it wasn't on an ongoing basis right it wasn't on an ongoing basis right it wasn't going to be on the Evening News it going to be on the Evening News it going to be on the Evening News it wasn't going to be in the front page of wasn't going to be in the front page of wasn't going to be in the front page of the newspaper um it was going to be if the newspaper um it was going to be if the newspaper um it was going to be if you read a book and someone talked about you read a book and someone talked about you read a book and someone talked about it or you read a magazine and there was it or you read a magazine and there was it or you read a magazine and there was an article an article an article um talking about you know this um talking about you know this um talking about you know this Progressive Movement or that Progressive Progressive Movement or that Progressive Progressive Movement or that Progressive move whatever it may be um you know and move whatever it may be um you know and move whatever it may be um you know and then or political parties but then or political parties but then or political parties but now all of that is front and center on now all of that is front and center on now all of that is front and center on social media yeah we're trying to figure social media yeah we're trying to figure social media yeah we're trying to figure out how we deal with the with the mobs out how we deal with the with the mobs out how we deal with the with the mobs of people and the virality of it all and of people and the virality of it all and of people and the virality of it all and um I I think we'll find our footing and um I I think we'll find our footing and um I I think we'll find our footing and start celebrating greatness again well start celebrating greatness again well start celebrating greatness again well that I mean that's the whole reason I do that I mean that's the whole reason I do that I mean that's the whole reason I do shark tank that's true that's that show shark tank that's true that's that show shark tank that's true that's that show celebrates the entrepreneur it's the celebrates the entrepreneur it's the celebrates the entrepreneur it's the only place where every single minute of only place where every single minute of only place where every single minute of every single episode we you know we every single episode we you know we every single episode we you know we celebrate the American dream and the celebrate the American dream and the celebrate the American dream and the reason I do it is we tell the entire reason I do it is we tell the entire reason I do it is we tell the entire country and it's shown around the world country and it's shown around the world country and it's shown around the world even we you know we're we're amazing even we you know we're we're amazing even we you know we're we're amazing advertising for the American dream in I advertising for the American dream in I advertising for the American dream in I don't even know how many countries but don't even know how many countries but don't even know how many countries but every time somebody walks onto that every time somebody walks onto that every time somebody walks onto that carpet from debuk Iowa or Ketchum Idaho carpet from debuk Iowa or Ketchum Idaho carpet from debuk Iowa or Ketchum Idaho you know that sends a message to every you know that sends a message to every you know that sends a message to every kid who's watching Seven 8 nine 10 12 kid who's watching Seven 8 nine 10 12 kid who's watching Seven 8 nine 10 12 year-old kid that if they can do it from year-old kid that if they can do it from year-old kid that if they can do it from catch Idaho you can do it if they can catch Idaho you can do it if they can catch Idaho you can do it if they can have this idea and get a deal or even have this idea and get a deal or even have this idea and get a deal or even present to the Sharks and have all of present to the Sharks and have all of present to the Sharks and have all of America see it you can do it and that I America see it you can do it and that I America see it you can do it and that I mean I'm proud of that um the 15 years mean I'm proud of that um the 15 years mean I'm proud of that um the 15 years of that is just it it's just been insane of that is just it it's just been insane of that is just it it's just been insane you know now kids walk up to me and go you know now kids walk up to me and go you know now kids walk up to me and go yeah I started watching you when I was yeah I started watching you when I was yeah I started watching you when I was five or 10 and I started a business five or 10 and I started a business five or 10 and I started a business because I learned about it from Shark because I learned about it from Shark because I learned about it from Shark Tank and so you know I think you know

Tank and so you know I think you know Tank and so you know I think you know we're being C it celebrates it and we we're being C it celebrates it and we we're being C it celebrates it and we convey it and I don't think it's going convey it and I don't think it's going convey it and I don't think it's going away but there are different battles we away but there are different battles we away but there are different battles we have to fight to support it yeah I love have to fight to support it yeah I love have to fight to support it yeah I love even when the business idea is obviously even when the business idea is obviously even when the business idea is obviously horrible just just just the guts to step horrible just just just the guts to step horrible just just just the guts to step up to be there to believe in yourself to up to be there to believe in yourself to up to be there to believe in yourself to really reach I mean that's what matters really reach I mean that's what matters really reach I mean that's what matters I mean cuz like some of the best I mean cuz like some of the best I mean cuz like some of the best business ideas are business ideas are business ideas are probably uh maybe even you and Shark probably uh maybe even you and Shark probably uh maybe even you and Shark Tank will laugh at oh for sure you know Tank will laugh at oh for sure you know Tank will laugh at oh for sure you know without question the good ones we're not without question the good ones we're not without question the good ones we're not going to recognize every good one and going to recognize every good one and going to recognize every good one and then sometimes we'll just motivate then sometimes we'll just motivate then sometimes we'll just motivate people to work even harder to get it people to work even harder to get it people to work even harder to get it done because of what we say to them and done because of what we say to them and done because of what we say to them and and that's fine too you know there's and that's fine too you know there's and that's fine too you know there's been great success stories that we said been great success stories that we said been great success stories that we said no to what stands out as like a no to what stands out as like a no to what stands out as like a memorable business on uh you've been memorable business on uh you've been memorable business on uh you've been pitched on Shark Tank what what's the pitched on Shark Tank what what's the pitched on Shark Tank what what's the best one that stands out there's no best best one that stands out there's no best best one that stands out there's no best one right they're all different um one right they're all different um one right they're all different um they're all best in their own way I they're all best in their own way I they're all best in their own way I guess they're stupid ones and you guess they're stupid ones and you guess they're stupid ones and you know we haven't had any you know World know we haven't had any you know World know we haven't had any you know World Earth world changing Earth shattering Earth world changing Earth shattering Earth world changing Earth shattering ones right because ones right because ones right because those aren't going to apply to Shark those aren't going to apply to Shark those aren't going to apply to Shark Tank they don't need us right you know Tank they don't need us right you know Tank they don't need us right you know so we typically get businesses that need so we typically get businesses that need so we typically get businesses that need some help at some level or another um some help at some level or another um some help at some level or another um but there's ones I've passed that I wish but there's ones I've passed that I wish but there's ones I've passed that I wish like spike ball do you know what spike like spike ball do you know what spike like spike ball do you know what spike ball is so it's just rebounding net that ball is so it's just rebounding net that ball is so it's just rebounding net that you can put on the beach and you have you can put on the beach and you have you can put on the beach and you have these yellow balls and you play a game these yellow balls and you play a game these yellow balls and you play a game of you know it's just a competitive game of you know it's just a competitive game of you know it's just a competitive game but they're killing it so if you go to but they're killing it so if you go to but they're killing it so if you go to beaches in New York or La you'll see beaches in New York or La you'll see beaches in New York or La you'll see kids playing it all the time and it was kids playing it all the time and it was kids playing it all the time and it was a fun game um that I wish I had done a a fun game um that I wish I had done a a fun game um that I wish I had done a deal with there's and there's been

deal with there's and there's been deal with there's and there's been others and you passed and I passed they others and you passed and I passed they others and you passed and I passed they they were getting some traction and they they were getting some traction and they they were getting some traction and they wanted to create leagues spikeball wanted to create leagues spikeball wanted to create leagues spikeball leagues and they wanted me to be the leagues and they wanted me to be the leagues and they wanted me to be the commissioner and I don't want to be a commissioner and I don't want to be a commissioner and I don't want to be a commissioner of a new spikeball league commissioner of a new spikeball league commissioner of a new spikeball league so you have to kind of have this gut so you have to kind of have this gut so you have to kind of have this gut feeling of will this scale will this feeling of will this scale will this feeling of will this scale will this click with people of course yeah can it click with people of course yeah can it click with people of course yeah can it be protected is it differentiated is it be protected is it differentiated is it be protected is it differentiated is it something that makes me think you know something that makes me think you know something that makes me think you know why didn't I think of that um or is it why didn't I think of that um or is it why didn't I think of that um or is it just a good um solid business that's just a good um solid business that's just a good um solid business that's going to pay a return to the the founder going to pay a return to the the founder going to pay a return to the the founder and may not be enough of a business to and may not be enough of a business to and may not be enough of a business to return to um an investor yeah and I return to um an investor yeah and I return to um an investor yeah and I guess the question you're trying to see guess the question you're trying to see guess the question you're trying to see will this scale This Promise will the will this scale This Promise will the will this scale This Promise will the promise materialize into a big thing we promise materialize into a big thing we promise materialize into a big thing we see I don't even care if it's going to see I don't even care if it's going to see I don't even care if it's going to be a big thing right it because it's all be a big thing right it because it's all be a big thing right it because it's all relative to the entrepreneur we had a relative to the entrepreneur we had a relative to the entrepreneur we had a 19-year-old from Pittsburgh Laney who 19-year-old from Pittsburgh Laney who 19-year-old from Pittsburgh Laney who came on with the simple sugar scrub and came on with the simple sugar scrub and came on with the simple sugar scrub and there was nothing outrageously special there was nothing outrageously special there was nothing outrageously special about it I didn't see it becoming a about it I didn't see it becoming a about it I didn't see it becoming a hundred million doll business I thought hundred million doll business I thought hundred million doll business I thought it could be come a two three5 million it could be come a two three5 million it could be come a two three5 million business that paid the bills for her and business that paid the bills for her and business that paid the bills for her and that that was good enough and you know 6 that that was good enough and you know 6 that that was good enough and you know 6 months after um the show aired she months after um the show aired she months after um the show aired she called me up she goes Mark I've got a called me up she goes Mark I've got a called me up she goes Mark I've got a million dollars in the bank what am I million dollars in the bank what am I million dollars in the bank what am I going to do I'm like enjoy it put aside going to do I'm like enjoy it put aside going to do I'm like enjoy it put aside money for your taxes and go back to work money for your taxes and go back to work money for your taxes and go back to work you know and so it doesn't have to be a you know and so it doesn't have to be a you know and so it doesn't have to be a huge business it's just got to be one huge business it's just got to be one huge business it's just got to be one that makes the entrepreneur happy but that makes the entrepreneur happy but that makes the entrepreneur happy but then there's the valuation piece I mean then there's the valuation piece I mean then there's the valuation piece I mean right do do a lot of the entrepreneurs right do do a lot of the entrepreneurs right do do a lot of the entrepreneurs overvalue of course business yeah I mean

overvalue of course business yeah I mean overvalue of course business yeah I mean that's that's the nature of it right I that's that's the nature of it right I that's that's the nature of it right I mean and that that's really where the mean and that that's really where the mean and that that's really where the biggest conflicts in Shark Tank happen biggest conflicts in Shark Tank happen biggest conflicts in Shark Tank happen that's in valuation they you know they that's in valuation they you know they that's in valuation they you know they they think this is the best business they think this is the best business they think this is the best business ever you know there we had one lady um ever you know there we had one lady um ever you know there we had one lady um couple that came on and they had this couple that came on and they had this couple that came on and they had this scraper for cat's tongues right nice scraper for cat's tongues right nice scraper for cat's tongues right nice bizarre most one of the most bizarre bizarre most one of the most bizarre bizarre most one of the most bizarre pitch ever I love it um you know and pitch ever I love it um you know and pitch ever I love it um you know and they had this insane valuation and it they had this insane valuation and it they had this insane valuation and it was on because it was corny and fun TV was on because it was corny and fun TV was on because it was corny and fun TV not because it was a good business oh not because it was a good business oh not because it was a good business oh really okay you didn't see the potential really okay you didn't see the potential really okay you didn't see the potential none yeah none there's a lot of cats in none yeah none there's a lot of cats in none yeah none there's a lot of cats in the wmart yes there are and they'll go the wmart yes there are and they'll go the wmart yes there are and they'll go do very well without me so how do you do very well without me so how do you do very well without me so how do you determine the value of a business determine the value of a business determine the value of a business whether it's on Shark Tank or just in whether it's on Shark Tank or just in whether it's on Shark Tank or just in general it's actually really easy right general it's actually really easy right general it's actually really easy right so if you take just to use an example a so if you take just to use an example a so if you take just to use an example a business that's valued at $1 business that's valued at $1 business that's valued at $1 million and I want to buy 10% of that million and I want to buy 10% of that million and I want to buy 10% of that company um for company um for company um for $100,000 then in order for me to get my $100,000 then in order for me to get my $100,000 then in order for me to get my money back they've got to be able to money back they've got to be able to money back they've got to be able to generate a $100,000 in after tax cash generate a $100,000 in after tax cash generate a $100,000 in after tax cash flow that they're able to flow that they're able to flow that they're able to distribute can they do it or can they distribute can they do it or can they distribute can they do it or can they not right and if it's $2 million Valu not right and if it's $2 million Valu not right and if it's $2 million Valu whatever the valuation is that's how whatever the valuation is that's how whatever the valuation is that's how much cash after tax cash they have to much cash after tax cash they have to much cash after tax cash they have to generate to return that money to generate to return that money to generate to return that money to investors or the other option is do they investors or the other option is do they investors or the other option is do they you know do I see this as business you know do I see this as business you know do I see this as business potentially having an exit right do they potentially having an exit right do they potentially having an exit right do they have some unique technology or do they have some unique technology or do they have some unique technology or do they have um something specific about them have um something specific about them have um something specific about them that some other company would want to that some other company would want to that some other company would want to acquire then the cash flow isn't as as

acquire then the cash flow isn't as as acquire then the cash flow isn't as as um not I don't want to say important but um not I don't want to say important but um not I don't want to say important but isn't going to guide the valuation and isn't going to guide the valuation and isn't going to guide the valuation and how do you know if a company's going to how do you know if a company's going to how do you know if a company's going to be uh acquired so it's the technology be uh acquired so it's the technology be uh acquired so it's the technology like the patents but also the team is it like the patents but also the team is it like the patents but also the team is it yeah it could be any of the above right yeah it could be any of the above right yeah it could be any of the above right it could be it could be a a super it could be it could be a a super it could be it could be a a super Products company that um I think is Products company that um I think is Products company that um I think is going to take off and how do you know if going to take off and how do you know if going to take off and how do you know if they can generate the money what's they can generate the money what's they can generate the money what's what's the you made it sound easy you what's the you made it sound easy you what's the you made it sound easy you know yeah I mean is can the person sell know yeah I mean is can the person sell know yeah I mean is can the person sell you know and if not them can I do it or you know and if not them can I do it or you know and if not them can I do it or someone on my team do it for them so someone on my team do it for them so someone on my team do it for them so you're looking at the person yeah for you're looking at the person yeah for you're looking at the person yeah for sure yeah that where Barbara corin's the sure yeah that where Barbara corin's the sure yeah that where Barbara corin's the best she can look at a person and hear best she can look at a person and hear best she can look at a person and hear them talk for 20 minutes and know can them talk for 20 minutes and know can them talk for 20 minutes and know can that person do the job and do the work that person do the job and do the work that person do the job and do the work can you tell if they're full of shit or can you tell if they're full of shit or can you tell if they're full of shit or not so one of the things with not so one of the things with not so one of the things with entrepreneurs they're kind of like we entrepreneurs they're kind of like we entrepreneurs they're kind of like we said overvaluing so they're maybe said overvaluing so they're maybe said overvaluing so they're maybe overselling themselves but also they overselling themselves but also they overselling themselves but also they might be full of shit in terms of their might be full of shit in terms of their might be full of shit in terms of their understanding of the market or also like understanding of the market or also like understanding of the market or also like or exaggerating what they're thinking to or exaggerating what they're thinking to or exaggerating what they're thinking to do all that kind of stuff can you see do all that kind of stuff can you see do all that kind of stuff can you see through that y for sure just by asking through that y for sure just by asking through that y for sure just by asking questions you know so if if they are um questions you know so if if they are um questions you know so if if they are um delusional at some level or misleading delusional at some level or misleading delusional at some level or misleading at another level I'm going to I'm going at another level I'm going to I'm going at another level I'm going to I'm going to call them on it you know so you get to call them on it you know so you get to call them on it you know so you get people trying to sell supplements that people trying to sell supplements that people trying to sell supplements that come on there and it's a cure for cancer come on there and it's a cure for cancer come on there and it's a cure for cancer or whatever it may be or there's this or whatever it may be or there's this or whatever it may be or there's this latest fad that you know increases your latest fad that you know increases your latest fad that you know increases your core strength without doing any core strength without doing any core strength without doing any exercises you know shit like that I'm exercises you know shit like that I'm exercises you know shit like that I'm just GNA bounce I'm gonna pound on them just GNA bounce I'm gonna pound on them just GNA bounce I'm gonna pound on them right see I still love that I still love right see I still love that I still love right see I still love that I still love the trying just you know give them the trying just you know give them the trying just you know give them credit right because they know all of credit right because they know all of credit right because they know all of America is going to see it and they're

America is going to see it and they're America is going to see it and they're deluded themselves to believe this story deluded themselves to believe this story deluded themselves to believe this story so strongly I mean there's a delusional so strongly I mean there's a delusional so strongly I mean there's a delusional aspect to entrepreneurship right like aspect to entrepreneurship right like aspect to entrepreneurship right like you just I I see that that's a great you just I I see that that's a great you just I I see that that's a great question um do you have to be ambitious question um do you have to be ambitious question um do you have to be ambitious and you know set aside reality at some and you know set aside reality at some and you know set aside reality at some level to think that you can create a level to think that you can create a level to think that you can create a company that could be worth 10 100 a company that could be worth 10 100 a company that could be worth 10 100 a billion dollars right um yeah at some billion dollars right um yeah at some billion dollars right um yeah at some level because you don't know it's all level because you don't know it's all level because you don't know it's all uncertainty but I think if you're uncertainty but I think if you're uncertainty but I think if you're delusional that works against you um you delusional that works against you um you delusional that works against you um you because everything's grounded in reality because everything's grounded in reality because everything's grounded in reality you've got to execute you've got to you've got to execute you've got to you've got to execute you've got to produce you know you can have a vision produce you know you can have a vision produce you know you can have a vision right and you can say this is where I right and you can say this is where I right and you can say this is where I want to get to and that's my mission or want to get to and that's my mission or want to get to and that's my mission or this is my driving principle but you this is my driving principle but you this is my driving principle but you still got to execute on the business still got to execute on the business still got to execute on the business plan and that that's where most people plan and that that's where most people plan and that that's where most people fail yeah you have to be kind of two- fail yeah you have to be kind of two- fail yeah you have to be kind of two- brained I guess you have to be able to brained I guess you have to be able to brained I guess you have to be able to dip into reality when you're thinking dip into reality when you're thinking dip into reality when you're thinking about like the specifics of the product about like the specifics of the product about like the specifics of the product how to design things how to like the you how to design things how to like the you how to design things how to like the you know the first principles the basics of know the first principles the basics of know the first principles the basics of how to build the thing how much it's how to build the thing how much it's how to build the thing how much it's going to cause all that yeah I mean going to cause all that yeah I mean going to cause all that yeah I mean because if you can't do the basics because if you can't do the basics because if you can't do the basics you're not going to be able to do the you're not going to be able to do the you're not going to be able to do the bigger things and at the same time bigger things and at the same time bigger things and at the same time you've got to be one of the things that you've got to be one of the things that you've got to be one of the things that entrepreneurs do that I I always try to entrepreneurs do that I I always try to entrepreneurs do that I I always try to remind any that I work with on is we all remind any that I work with on is we all remind any that I work with on is we all tend to lie to ourselves our product is tend to lie to ourselves our product is tend to lie to ourselves our product is bigger faster cheaper this or that as if bigger faster cheaper this or that as if bigger faster cheaper this or that as if that is a um finite situation that's that is a um finite situation that's that is a um finite situation that's never going to change right and there's never going to change right and there's never going to change right and there's always somebody I call them Leap Frog always somebody I call them Leap Frog always somebody I call them Leap Frog businesses there's whoever's competing businesses there's whoever's competing businesses there's whoever's competing against you you know if you do a or C against you you know if you do a or C against you you know if you do a or C they're going to try to do c d and e they're going to try to do c d and e they're going to try to do c d and e right and you better be prepared for

right and you better be prepared for right and you better be prepared for that to come because otherwise they're that to come because otherwise they're that to come because otherwise they're out of business too so you're never in a out of business too so you're never in a out of business too so you're never in a vacuum you're always competing against vacuum you're always competing against vacuum you're always competing against sometimes an unlimited number of sometimes an unlimited number of sometimes an unlimited number of entrepreneurs that you don't even know entrepreneurs that you don't even know entrepreneurs that you don't even know exist who are trying to kick your ass exist who are trying to kick your ass exist who are trying to kick your ass and the tricky part of all this too is and the tricky part of all this too is and the tricky part of all this too is you might need to frequently pivot you might need to frequently pivot you might need to frequently pivot especially in the beginning hopefully especially in the beginning hopefully especially in the beginning hopefully not so you think like in the beginning not so you think like in the beginning not so you think like in the beginning the product you have should be the thing the product you have should be the thing the product you have should be the thing that carries you a long time yeah that carries you a long time yeah that carries you a long time yeah because I mean that's that's your because I mean that's that's your because I mean that's that's your riskiest point in time right and so if riskiest point in time right and so if riskiest point in time right and so if you've done your homework which includes you've done your homework which includes you've done your homework which includes going out there and testing product going out there and testing product going out there and testing product Market fit um you should have confidence Market fit um you should have confidence Market fit um you should have confidence that you're going to be able to sell it that you're going to be able to sell it that you're going to be able to sell it now if you didn't do your homework and now if you didn't do your homework and now if you didn't do your homework and you go out there and you sell whatever you go out there and you sell whatever you go out there and you sell whatever it is then and you've raised money or it is then and you've raised money or it is then and you've raised money or whatever just to Pivot you've already whatever just to Pivot you've already whatever just to Pivot you've already shown that you haven't been able to read shown that you haven't been able to read shown that you haven't been able to read the market and so it's not that pivots the market and so it's not that pivots the market and so it's not that pivots can't work and always don't work they can't work and always don't work they can't work and always don't work they can but more often than not they don't can but more often than not they don't can but more often than not they don't you pivot for a reason that's because you pivot for a reason that's because you pivot for a reason that's because you made a huge mistake well also mean you made a huge mistake well also mean you made a huge mistake well also mean like the the micro pivots which is like like the the micro pivots which is like like the the micro pivots which is like iterative development of a thing oh yeah iterative development of a thing oh yeah iterative development of a thing oh yeah that's not yeah just iterations yeah you that's not yeah just iterations yeah you that's not yeah just iterations yeah you know entrepreneurship being having any know entrepreneurship being having any know entrepreneurship being having any business is just continuous interation business is just continuous interation business is just continuous interation continuous your product your sales pits continuous your product your sales pits continuous your product your sales pits your advertising you know introducing your advertising you know introducing your advertising you know introducing new technology how do you use AI or not new technology how do you use AI or not new technology how do you use AI or not use AI where do you use it what person use AI where do you use it what person use AI where do you use it what person is the right person there's there's just is the right person there's there's just is the right person there's there's just a million touch points you know that a million touch points you know that a million touch points you know that you're always re-evaluating in real time

you're always re-evaluating in real time you're always re-evaluating in real time that you have to be agile that you have to be agile that you have to be agile and adapt and change but especially in and adapt and change but especially in and adapt and change but especially in software it feels like business model software it feels like business model software it feels like business model can evolve really quickly too like how can evolve really quickly too like how can evolve really quickly too like how you going to make money on this with you going to make money on this with you going to make money on this with software for sure because you know software for sure because you know software for sure because you know anything digital because it can change anything digital because it can change anything digital because it can change in a millisecond speaking of which how in a millisecond speaking of which how in a millisecond speaking of which how did you make your first billion so my did you make your first billion so my did you make your first billion so my partner Todd Wagner and I um would get partner Todd Wagner and I um would get partner Todd Wagner and I um would get together for lunches and we were at together for lunches and we were at together for lunches and we were at California Pizza Kitchen in Preston California Pizza Kitchen in Preston California Pizza Kitchen in Preston Hollow in Dallas and he was talking Hollow in Dallas and he was talking Hollow in Dallas and he was talking about um how we could use this new thing about um how we could use this new thing about um how we could use this new thing called the internet this is late 94 called the internet this is late 94 called the internet this is late 94 early 95 to be able to listen to Indiana early 95 to be able to listen to Indiana early 95 to be able to listen to Indiana University basketball games because that University basketball games because that University basketball games because that that's where we went to school and he that's where we went to school and he that's where we went to school and he was like look when we would listen to was like look when we would listen to was like look when we would listen to games we would have somebody in games we would have somebody in games we would have somebody in Bloomington Indiana have a speaker phone Bloomington Indiana have a speaker phone Bloomington Indiana have a speaker phone next to a radio and then we would have a next to a radio and then we would have a next to a radio and then we would have a speaker phone in Dallas and you know speaker phone in Dallas and you know speaker phone in Dallas and you know sixpack or 12 pack of beer and we sit sixpack or 12 pack of beer and we sit sixpack or 12 pack of beer and we sit around listening to the game because around listening to the game because around listening to the game because there was no other way to listen to it there was no other way to listen to it there was no other way to listen to it so I was like okay okay my first company so I was like okay okay my first company so I was like okay okay my first company micr Solutions you know I'd written micr Solutions you know I'd written micr Solutions you know I'd written software done Network integration and so software done Network integration and so software done Network integration and so I was comfortable digging into it and so I was comfortable digging into it and so I was comfortable digging into it and so I like okay let's give it a try so we I like okay let's give it a try so we I like okay let's give it a try so we started this company called audionet and started this company called audionet and started this company called audionet and effectively became the first streaming effectively became the first streaming effectively became the first streaming content company on the internet and it content company on the internet and it content company on the internet and it we were like okay we're not sure how we were like okay we're not sure how we were like okay we're not sure how we're going to make this work but we we're going to make this work but we we're going to make this work but we were able to make it work we started were able to make it work we started were able to make it work we started going to radio stations and TV stations going to radio stations and TV stations going to radio stations and TV stations and you know music labels and everything

and you know music labels and everything and you know music labels and everything and um evolved aet.com which is only and um evolved aet.com which is only and um evolved aet.com which is only audio at the beginning to broadcast.com audio at the beginning to broadcast.com audio at the beginning to broadcast.com in 1998 which was audio and video and in 1998 which was audio and video and in 1998 which was audio and video and became the largest multimedia site on became the largest multimedia site on became the largest multimedia site on the internet took it public on in July the internet took it public on in July the internet took it public on in July of 1998 it had the largest first day of 1998 it had the largest first day of 1998 it had the largest first day jump in the history of the stock market jump in the history of the stock market jump in the history of the stock market at the time and then a year later we at the time and then a year later we at the time and then a year later we sold it to Yahoo for $5.7 billion in sold it to Yahoo for $5.7 billion in sold it to Yahoo for $5.7 billion in Yahoo stock and I owned you know right Yahoo stock and I owned you know right Yahoo stock and I owned you know right around 30% of the company give or take around 30% of the company give or take around 30% of the company give or take and so after taxes that's what got me and so after taxes that's what got me and so after taxes that's what got me there well there's a lot of questions there well there's a lot of questions there well there's a lot of questions there so the technical challenge of that there so the technical challenge of that there so the technical challenge of that you're making it sound easy but uh you you're making it sound easy but uh you you're making it sound easy but uh you wrote code but still in the early days wrote code but still in the early days wrote code but still in the early days of the internet how do you figure out of the internet how do you figure out of the internet how do you figure out how to create this kind of uh product of how to create this kind of uh product of how to create this kind of uh product of of of just audio at first and then video of of just audio at first and then video of of just audio at first and then video at first a lot of iterations right like at first a lot of iterations right like at first a lot of iterations right like you talked about um we started in the you talked about um we started in the you talked about um we started in the second bedroom of my house set up a second bedroom of my house set up a second bedroom of my house set up a server I got an ISDN line which was a server I got an ISDN line which was a server I got an ISDN line which was a 128k line and set up downloaded Netscape 128k line and set up downloaded Netscape 128k line and set up downloaded Netscape server and then started using different server and then started using different server and then started using different file formats that were Progressive file formats that were Progressive file formats that were Progressive loading and allowing people to connect loading and allowing people to connect loading and allowing people to connect to the server and do a progressive to the server and do a progressive to the server and do a progressive download so that the audio you can download so that the audio you can download so that the audio you can listen to the audio while it was listen to the audio while it was listen to the audio while it was downloading onto your PC yeah was it downloading onto your PC yeah was it downloading onto your PC yeah was it super choppy so you trying to figure out super choppy so you trying to figure out super choppy so you trying to figure out yeah for sure for sure it would buffer yeah for sure for sure it would buffer yeah for sure for sure it would buffer it was yeah was it it wasn't good but it it was yeah was it it wasn't good but it it was yeah was it it wasn't good but it was a start but it was good enough cuz was a start but it was good enough cuz was a start but it was good enough cuz it's the first kind of yeah because it's the first kind of yeah because it's the first kind of yeah because there was no other competition right there was no other competition right there was no other competition right there was nobody else doing it and so it

there was nobody else doing it and so it there was nobody else doing it and so it was like okay I can get access to this was like okay I can get access to this was like okay I can get access to this this or this and then there were some this or this and then there were some this or this and then there were some third party software companies zing and third party software companies zing and third party software companies zing and um Progressive networks and others that um Progressive networks and others that um Progressive networks and others that were that took it a little bit further were that took it a little bit further were that took it a little bit further so we partnered with them and I started so we partnered with them and I started so we partnered with them and I started going to local radio stations where going to local radio stations where going to local radio stations where literally we would set up a server right literally we would set up a server right literally we would set up a server right next to it I had a next to it I had a next to it I had a $49 um radio the highest FM radio that I $49 um radio the highest FM radio that I $49 um radio the highest FM radio that I could find and we take the output of the could find and we take the output of the could find and we take the output of the audio signal from the radio with these audio signal from the radio with these audio signal from the radio with these two analog cables plug it into the two analog cables plug it into the two analog cables plug it into the server encode it and make it available server encode it and make it available server encode it and make it available from aet.com then I would go on yunet from aet.com then I would go on yunet from aet.com then I would go on yunet bulletin boards I would go on CompuServe bulletin boards I would go on CompuServe bulletin boards I would go on CompuServe I would go on Prodigy I would go on AOL I would go on Prodigy I would go on AOL I would go on Prodigy I would go on AOL I'd go wherever I could find bodies and I'd go wherever I could find bodies and I'd go wherever I could find bodies and I'd say okay we've got this radio I'd say okay we've got this radio I'd say okay we've got this radio station klif in Dallas it's got Dallas station klif in Dallas it's got Dallas station klif in Dallas it's got Dallas Sports and Dallas um news and politics Sports and Dallas um news and politics Sports and Dallas um news and politics and if you're in an office or you're and if you're in an office or you're and if you're in an office or you're outside of Dallas connect to aet.com outside of Dallas connect to aet.com outside of Dallas connect to aet.com and now you can listen to these things and now you can listen to these things and now you can listen to these things on demand and that's how we started and on demand and that's how we started and on demand and that's how we started and it started with one one radio station it started with one one radio station it started with one one radio station and then it was five then it was 10 then and then it was five then it was 10 then and then it was five then it was 10 then it was video content then it um the laws it was video content then it um the laws it was video content then it um the laws were different then so we could um were different then so we could um were different then so we could um literally go out and buy CDs and host literally go out and buy CDs and host literally go out and buy CDs and host them and just let people listen to them and just let people listen to them and just let people listen to whatever music and we went from you know whatever music and we went from you know whatever music and we went from you know 10 users a day to 100 to a thousand to 10 users a day to 100 to a thousand to 10 users a day to 100 to a thousand to hundreds of thousands to a million over hundreds of thousands to a million over hundreds of thousands to a million over those next four years how did you find those next four years how did you find those next four years how did you find the users is it Word of Mouth Word of the users is it Word of Mouth Word of the users is it Word of Mouth Word of Mouth mou didn't spend a penny on

Mouth mou didn't spend a penny on Mouth mou didn't spend a penny on Advertising so the thing you were Advertising so the thing you were Advertising so the thing you were focusing on is getting the radio focusing on is getting the radio focusing on is getting the radio stations and all or radio and TV stations and all or radio and TV stations and all or radio and TV anything any content at all you pick up anything any content at all you pick up anything any content at all you pick up the phone what did you how you I would I the phone what did you how you I would I the phone what did you how you I would I wherever I could like everything that wherever I could like everything that wherever I could like everything that was public domain I'd go out and buy a was public domain I'd go out and buy a was public domain I'd go out and buy a video or a cassette whatever it was you video or a cassette whatever it was you video or a cassette whatever it was you know um and this is before the the DM know um and this is before the the DM know um and this is before the the DM the digital minim Copyright Act of 90 the digital minim Copyright Act of 90 the digital minim Copyright Act of 90 whenever it kicked in so literally whenever it kicked in so literally whenever it kicked in so literally anything that was audio we would put anything that was audio we would put anything that was audio we would put online so people could listen to it and online so people could listen to it and online so people could listen to it and if you think about somebody at work they if you think about somebody at work they if you think about somebody at work they didn't have a most likely and if you did didn't have a most likely and if you did didn't have a most likely and if you did you couldn't get reception definitely you couldn't get reception definitely you couldn't get reception definitely didn't have a TV but you had a PC and didn't have a TV but you had a PC and didn't have a TV but you had a PC and you had bandwidth available to you and you had bandwidth available to you and you had bandwidth available to you and the companies weren't up on firewalls or the companies weren't up on firewalls or the companies weren't up on firewalls or anything at that point in time so our in anything at that point in time so our in anything at that point in time so our in office listening you know during the day office listening you know during the day office listening you know during the day what just exploded because whoever was what just exploded because whoever was what just exploded because whoever was sitting next to you what are you sitting next to you what are you sitting next to you what are you listening to right and that was the listening to right and that was the listening to right and that was the start of it and then you know in early start of it and then you know in early start of it and then you know in early 98 um we started adding video and just 98 um we started adding video and just 98 um we started adding video and just other things and we had end up with other things and we had end up with other things and we had end up with thousands of servers you know there was thousands of servers you know there was thousands of servers you know there was no cloud back then and um and just no cloud back then and um and just no cloud back then and um and just pulling together all those pieces to pulling together all those pieces to pulling together all those pieces to make it work but where we really made make it work but where we really made make it work but where we really made our money was by our money was by our money was by taking that Network that we had built taking that Network that we had built taking that Network that we had built and then going to corporations and and then going to corporations and and then going to corporations and saying look you know it's 1996 saying look you know it's 1996 saying look you know it's 1996 9798 and to communicate with your 9798 and to communicate with your 9798 and to communicate with your worldwide employees what they would do worldwide employees what they would do worldwide employees what they would do is they would go to an auditorium that is they would go to an auditorium that is they would go to an auditorium that had a satellite uplink and then they had a satellite uplink and then they had a satellite uplink and then they would have people go to like theaters or would have people go to like theaters or would have people go to like theaters or ballrooms um and hotels that had ballrooms um and hotels that had ballrooms um and hotels that had satellite downlinks and then would

satellite downlinks and then would satellite downlinks and then would broadcast you know the product broadcast you know the product broadcast you know the product introductions whatever and so we said to introductions whatever and so we said to introductions whatever and so we said to them look you're paying millions of them look you're paying millions of them look you're paying millions of dollars to reach all your employees when dollars to reach all your employees when dollars to reach all your employees when you can do it um pay us a half a million you can do it um pay us a half a million you can do it um pay us a half a million dollars and we'll do it just under their dollars and we'll do it just under their dollars and we'll do it just under their PCS at work so we did you know when PCS at work so we did you know when PCS at work so we did you know when Intel announced the P90 PC we you know Intel announced the P90 PC we you know Intel announced the P90 PC we you know charged them $2 million or whatever to charged them $2 million or whatever to charged them $2 million or whatever to do that when Motorola announced a new do that when Motorola announced a new do that when Motorola announced a new phone or a new product we would charge phone or a new product we would charge phone or a new product we would charge them and so we Ed the consumer side to them and so we Ed the consumer side to them and so we Ed the consumer side to do a proof of concept for Network um and do a proof of concept for Network um and do a proof of concept for Network um and then we would take that knowledge and go then we would take that knowledge and go then we would take that knowledge and go to corporations and that's how we made to corporations and that's how we made to corporations and that's how we made our revenue and there's some selling our revenue and there's some selling our revenue and there's some selling there with the corporations yeah a lot there with the corporations yeah a lot there with the corporations yeah a lot of selling there but we were saving them of selling there but we were saving them of selling there but we were saving them so much money and they were technology so much money and they were technology so much money and they were technology companies they wanted to be perceived as companies they wanted to be perceived as companies they wanted to be perceived as being Leading Edge and so it was winwin being Leading Edge and so it was winwin being Leading Edge and so it was winwin uh how much technical Savvy was required uh how much technical Savvy was required uh how much technical Savvy was required you said a bunch of servers like at you said a bunch of servers like at you said a bunch of servers like at which point do you get more Engineers which point do you get more Engineers which point do you get more Engineers how much did you understand could do how much did you understand could do how much did you understand could do yourself and then also once you can't do yourself and then also once you can't do yourself and then also once you can't do it all yourself it all yourself it all yourself how much technical Savvy is required to how much technical Savvy is required to how much technical Savvy is required to understand enough to hire the right understand enough to hire the right understand enough to hire the right people to keep building this and Innova people to keep building this and Innova people to keep building this and Innova I did all the technology and then we I did all the technology and then we I did all the technology and then we hired engineer after engineer after hired engineer after engineer after hired engineer after engineer after engineer to implement it and so wow yeah engineer to implement it and so wow yeah engineer to implement it and so wow yeah um from putting together a multicast um from putting together a multicast um from putting together a multicast network to um software to just all these network to um software to just all these network to um software to just all these different things was this like a scary different things was this like a scary different things was this like a scary thing like it's terrifying right because thing like it's terrifying right because thing like it's terrifying right because as we were growing trying to keep up the as we were growing trying to keep up the as we were growing trying to keep up the scale and literally we're buying scale and literally we're buying scale and literally we're buying off-the-shelf PCS and then you know cars off-the-shelf PCS and then you know cars off-the-shelf PCS and then you know cars as the technology advanced and hard as the technology advanced and hard as the technology advanced and hard drives and things would fail and we

drives and things would fail and we drives and things would fail and we would have to you know we didn't have would have to you know we didn't have would have to you know we didn't have machine learning back then to do an machine learning back then to do an machine learning back then to do an analysis of you know how to distribute analysis of you know how to distribute analysis of you know how to distribute server you know resources so you know server you know resources so you know server you know resources so you know like there was there was a time when um like there was there was a time when um like there was there was a time when um Bill Clinton and all the Monica Lewinsky Bill Clinton and all the Monica Lewinsky Bill Clinton and all the Monica Lewinsky stuff happened they released the audio stuff happened they released the audio stuff happened they released the audio of um their interviews of him or of um their interviews of him or of um their interviews of him or something like that right and we something like that right and we something like that right and we literally we I knew at that point time literally we I knew at that point time literally we I knew at that point time when that was released everybody at work when that was released everybody at work when that was released everybody at work was going to want to listen to it right was going to want to listen to it right was going to want to listen to it right so we had to take down servers that were so we had to take down servers that were so we had to take down servers that were doing Chicago Cubs baseball right you doing Chicago Cubs baseball right you doing Chicago Cubs baseball right you know and just make all these on the-fly know and just make all these on the-fly know and just make all these on the-fly decisions because there was no we didn't decisions because there was no we didn't decisions because there was no we didn't have the tools to analyze or predict be have the tools to analyze or predict be have the tools to analyze or predict be predictive but yeah it was it was all predictive but yeah it was it was all predictive but yeah it was it was all technology driven and technology driven and technology driven and marketing um the acquisition by Yahoo marketing um the acquisition by Yahoo marketing um the acquisition by Yahoo can you tell the story of that but also can you tell the story of that but also can you tell the story of that but also in the broader context of this internet in the broader context of this internet in the broader context of this internet bubble this is a fascinating part of bubble this is a fascinating part of bubble this is a fascinating part of human history yeah so so on the human history yeah so so on the human history yeah so so on the acquisition side we were the largest acquisition side we were the largest acquisition side we were the largest media site on the internet it wasn't media site on the internet it wasn't media site on the internet it wasn't close there was nobody close we were close there was nobody close we were close there was nobody close we were YouTube and relatively speaking we would YouTube and relatively speaking we would YouTube and relatively speaking we would be 10x YouTube relative to the be 10x YouTube relative to the be 10x YouTube relative to the competition because there was nobody competition because there was nobody competition because there was nobody there um and so it became obvious to there um and so it became obvious to there um and so it became obvious to Yahoo AOL and others that they needed a Yahoo AOL and others that they needed a Yahoo AOL and others that they needed a multimedia component and we had the multimedia component and we had the multimedia component and we had the infrastructure sales all that stuff um infrastructure sales all that stuff um infrastructure sales all that stuff um and so and so and so Yahoo when we went public in 98 or right Yahoo when we went public in 98 or right Yahoo when we went public in 98 or right before I think it was they made an before I think it was they made an before I think it was they made an investment of like $2 million which gave investment of like $2 million which gave investment of like $2 million which gave us a connection to them and then after

us a connection to them and then after us a connection to them and then after we went public they decided they needed we went public they decided they needed we went public they decided they needed to have multimedia and so in April of 99 to have multimedia and so in April of 99 to have multimedia and so in April of 99 we made a deal and then July of 2000s we made a deal and then July of 2000s we made a deal and then July of 2000s when it when it when it closed and uh can you explain to me the closed and uh can you explain to me the closed and uh can you explain to me the trickiness of what you did after that oh trickiness of what you did after that oh trickiness of what you did after that oh the um the collar yeah okay so when we the um the collar yeah okay so when we the um the collar yeah okay so when we sold to yah we sold for $5.7 billion in sold to yah we sold for $5.7 billion in sold to yah we sold for $5.7 billion in stock not cash and so I looked at I you stock not cash and so I looked at I you stock not cash and so I looked at I you know after micro Solutions um when I know after micro Solutions um when I know after micro Solutions um when I sold that um I took that money and sold that um I took that money and sold that um I took that money and initially I I told my broker I wanted to initially I I told my broker I wanted to initially I I told my broker I wanted to invest like a 60-year old man because I invest like a 60-year old man because I invest like a 60-year old man because I wanted to protect it um but then he wanted to protect it um but then he wanted to protect it um but then he started asking me all kinds of questions started asking me all kinds of questions started asking me all kinds of questions about all these technologies that I about all these technologies that I about all these technologies that I understood like networks I had installed understood like networks I had installed understood like networks I had installed we had become one of the top 20 let's we had become one of the top 20 let's we had become one of the top 20 let's say um systems integrators in the say um systems integrators in the say um systems integrators in the country at one point in time we're the country at one point in time we're the country at one point in time we're the largest IBM token ring um installer in largest IBM token ring um installer in largest IBM token ring um installer in the country it was crazy right Bon name the country it was crazy right Bon name the country it was crazy right Bon name blast from the past I mean so anyway so blast from the past I mean so anyway so blast from the past I mean so anyway so these Wall Street Bankers um or analysts these Wall Street Bankers um or analysts these Wall Street Bankers um or analysts rather um that were the big analysts of rather um that were the big analysts of rather um that were the big analysts of the time would call me up because they the time would call me up because they the time would call me up because they would ask my broker what does he know would ask my broker what does he know would ask my broker what does he know about this product this and I knew them about this product this and I knew them about this product this and I knew them all what was working and not working all what was working and not working all what was working and not working right and so the ones that work you know right and so the ones that work you know right and so the ones that work you know I say it's working i' see the stock they I say it's working i' see the stock they I say it's working i' see the stock they say something the stock would go up 20 say something the stock would go up 20 say something the stock would go up 20 bucks right so I'm like like well and my bucks right so I'm like like well and my bucks right so I'm like like well and my broker was like you need to you know broker was like you need to you know broker was like you need to you know this better than they do you need to this better than they do you need to this better than they do you need to invest so I started buying and selling invest so I started buying and selling invest so I started buying and selling stocks and this was in

stocks and this was in stocks and this was in 1990 and was just killing it I was 1990 and was just killing it I was 1990 and was just killing it I was making 80 90 100% a year um over those making 80 90 100% a year um over those making 80 90 100% a year um over those next four years to the point where guy next four years to the point where guy next four years to the point where guy came in and asked to use my trading came in and asked to use my trading came in and asked to use my trading history to start a hedge fund which we history to start a hedge fund which we history to start a hedge fund which we did and I sold within nine months it was did and I sold within nine months it was did and I sold within nine months it was great right but the point being as it great right but the point being as it great right but the point being as it goes forward so when um we sold to Yahoo goes forward so when um we sold to Yahoo goes forward so when um we sold to Yahoo I already had a lot experiened trading I already had a lot experiened trading I already had a lot experiened trading stocks and I had seen different bubbles stocks and I had seen different bubbles stocks and I had seen different bubbles come and go a bubble for PC come and go a bubble for PC come and go a bubble for PC manufacturers a bubble for networking manufacturers a bubble for networking manufacturers a bubble for networking manufacturers they went up up up up up manufacturers they went up up up up up manufacturers they went up up up up up and then they came straight down after and then they came straight down after and then they came straight down after the hype or somebody just um Lea frogged the hype or somebody just um Lea frogged the hype or somebody just um Lea frogged and so when we sold to Yahoo um I was and so when we sold to Yahoo um I was and so when we sold to Yahoo um I was like I've got a be next to my name like I've got a be next to my name like I've got a be next to my name that's all I need or all I want I don't that's all I need or all I want I don't that's all I need or all I want I don't want to be greedy and I'd seen this want to be greedy and I'd seen this want to be greedy and I'd seen this story before where stocks get really story before where stocks get really story before where stocks get really frothy and go straight down and and I frothy and go straight down and and I frothy and go straight down and and I knew that because all of what I had was knew that because all of what I had was knew that because all of what I had was in stock I needed to find a way to in stock I needed to find a way to in stock I needed to find a way to collar it and protect it so collar it and protect it so collar it and protect it so understanding stocks and trading and understanding stocks and trading and understanding stocks and trading and options and all that my broker and I we options and all that my broker and I we options and all that my broker and I we went and shorted an index that had Yahoo went and shorted an index that had Yahoo went and shorted an index that had Yahoo in it and so the law at the time was you in it and so the law at the time was you in it and so the law at the time was you couldn't short any indexes that had more couldn't short any indexes that had more couldn't short any indexes that had more than 5% of that stock in it right that than 5% of that stock in it right that than 5% of that stock in it right that of anyone's of the Yahoo stock and so um of anyone's of the Yahoo stock and so um of anyone's of the Yahoo stock and so um I took pretty much 20 some million I took pretty much 20 some million I took pretty much 20 some million dollars everything I had at the time and dollars everything I had at the time and dollars everything I had at the time and I sorted the index this is fascinating I sorted the index this is fascinating I sorted the index this is fascinating by the way cuz it's based on your by the way cuz it's based on your by the way cuz it's based on your estimation that this is a bubble or just estimation that this is a bubble or just estimation that this is a bubble or just mind not want be to be greedy sure so mind not want be to be greedy sure so mind not want be to be greedy sure so you're the foundation of this kind of

you're the foundation of this kind of you're the foundation of this kind of thinging is uh you don't want to be thinging is uh you don't want to be thinging is uh you don't want to be greedy yeah I mean how much money do I greedy yeah I mean how much money do I greedy yeah I mean how much money do I need right you know where other people need right you know where other people need right you know where other people were saying oh I think can go up higher were saying oh I think can go up higher were saying oh I think can go up higher higher higher I was like I went on CNBC higher higher I was like I went on CNBC higher higher I was like I went on CNBC and um I told them what I had done and and um I told them what I had done and and um I told them what I had done and they were like in Yahoo stock had gone they were like in Yahoo stock had gone they were like in Yahoo stock had gone up significantly from the time I had had up significantly from the time I had had up significantly from the time I had had collared and one of the guy Joe and was collared and one of the guy Joe and was collared and one of the guy Joe and was on there don't you feel stupid now that on there don't you feel stupid now that on there don't you feel stupid now that yaho stock has gotten up um you know x% yaho stock has gotten up um you know x% yaho stock has gotten up um you know x% more I'm like yeah I feel real stupid more I'm like yeah I feel real stupid more I'm like yeah I feel real stupid sitting on my sitting on my sitting on my jet but so you I mean there is some jet but so you I mean there is some jet but so you I mean there is some fundamental way in which bubbles are fundamental way in which bubbles are fundamental way in which bubbles are based on this greed greed and I'd seen based on this greed greed and I'd seen based on this greed greed and I'd seen it before right like I just said and so it before right like I just said and so it before right like I just said and so what I did was we put together a caller what I did was we put together a caller what I did was we put together a caller where I sold calls and bought puts and where I sold calls and bought puts and where I sold calls and bought puts and as it turned out when the market just as it turned out when the market just as it turned out when the market just cratered I was protected and you know cratered I was protected and you know cratered I was protected and you know over the next two three years whatever over the next two three years whatever over the next two three years whatever it was it it converted to cash paid my it was it it converted to cash paid my it was it it converted to cash paid my taxes Etc but um it protected me and as taxes Etc but um it protected me and as taxes Etc but um it protected me and as it turns out it was called one of the it turns out it was called one of the it turns out it was called one of the top 10 trades of all time and what was top 10 trades of all time and what was top 10 trades of all time and what was even more interesting out of that period even more interesting out of that period even more interesting out of that period um my broker at that time was at Goldman um my broker at that time was at Goldman um my broker at that time was at Goldman Sachs and I had asked him to see if Sachs and I had asked him to see if Sachs and I had asked him to see if there was a way to trade Vic the vix there was a way to trade Vic the vix there was a way to trade Vic the vix right the volatility index and there right the volatility index and there right the volatility index and there there wasn't right and so one of the the there wasn't right and so one of the the there wasn't right and so one of the the people that Goldman that we were working people that Goldman that we were working people that Goldman that we were working with to try to create this actually left with to try to create this actually left with to try to create this actually left Goldman and created indexes that allowed Goldman and created indexes that allowed Goldman and created indexes that allowed you to to trade the vix it's not trivial you to to trade the vix it's not trivial you to to trade the vix it's not trivial to understand it's a bubble I mean to understand it's a bubble I mean to understand it's a bubble I mean you're kind of lessening your insight

you're kind of lessening your insight you're kind of lessening your insight into all this by saying you just didn't into all this by saying you just didn't into all this by saying you just didn't want to be greedy but you still have to want to be greedy but you still have to want to be greedy but you still have to see that it's a bubble yeah I mean yeah see that it's a bubble yeah I mean yeah see that it's a bubble yeah I mean yeah obviously if I thought it was going to obviously if I thought it was going to obviously if I thought it was going to keep on going up and it was there was keep on going up and it was there was keep on going up and it was there was intrinsic value there I would have intrinsic value there I would have intrinsic value there I would have stayed in it but it it wasn't so much stayed in it but it it wasn't so much stayed in it but it it wasn't so much Yahoo it was just the entire industry Yahoo it was just the entire industry Yahoo it was just the entire industry you would back then you know like we're you would back then you know like we're you would back then you know like we're looking at the the magic 7 or whatever looking at the the magic 7 or whatever looking at the the magic 7 or whatever it is stock now and people are asking is it is stock now and people are asking is it is stock now and people are asking is it in a bubble and when I would get into it in a bubble and when I would get into it in a bubble and when I would get into cabs and people just start talking about cabs and people just start talking about cabs and people just start talking about internet stocks there were people internet stocks there were people internet stocks there were people creating companies with just a website creating companies with just a website creating companies with just a website and going public you know that's a and going public you know that's a and going public you know that's a bubble right where there's no intrinsic bubble right where there's no intrinsic bubble right where there's no intrinsic value at all and people aren't even value at all and people aren't even value at all and people aren't even trying to make operating cap profits trying to make operating cap profits trying to make operating cap profits they're just trying to Leverage The they're just trying to Leverage The they're just trying to Leverage The frothiness of the stock market that's a frothiness of the stock market that's a frothiness of the stock market that's a bubble you don't see that right now bubble you don't see that right now bubble you don't see that right now there's not companies you don't see there's not companies you don't see there's not companies you don't see hardly you don't see any IPOs right now hardly you don't see any IPOs right now hardly you don't see any IPOs right now for that matter so you know I don't for that matter so you know I don't for that matter so you know I don't think we're in a bubble now but back think we're in a bubble now but back think we're in a bubble now but back then yes I thought we were in a bubble then yes I thought we were in a bubble then yes I thought we were in a bubble but that wasn't really the motivating but that wasn't really the motivating but that wasn't really the motivating factor do you think it's possible we're factor do you think it's possible we're factor do you think it's possible we're in a bit of an AI bubble right now no in a bit of an AI bubble right now no in a bit of an AI bubble right now no because we're not seeing funky AI because we're not seeing funky AI because we're not seeing funky AI companies just go public if all of a companies just go public if all of a companies just go public if all of a sudden we see a rush of companies who sudden we see a rush of companies who sudden we see a rush of companies who are skins on other people's models or or are skins on other people's models or or are skins on other people's models or or just creating models to create models just creating models to create models just creating models to create models that are going public then yeah that's that are going public then yeah that's that are going public then yeah that's probably the start of a bubble um but probably the start of a bubble um but probably the start of a bubble um but that said my my 14-year-old was bragging that said my my 14-year-old was bragging that said my my 14-year-old was bragging about buying Nvidia you know with me in about buying Nvidia you know with me in about buying Nvidia you know with me in in his Robinhood account he tells me the in his Robinhood account he tells me the in his Robinhood account he tells me the order I place it and he was like oh yeah order I place it and he was like oh yeah order I place it and he was like oh yeah it's going up up up you know and I'm it's going up up up you know and I'm it's going up up up you know and I'm like yeah we're not quite there yet but like yeah we're not quite there yet but like yeah we're not quite there yet but that's you know that's one thing to pay that's you know that's one thing to pay that's you know that's one thing to pay attention yeah we're flirting with it

attention yeah we're flirting with it attention yeah we're flirting with it yeah uh you said that becoming a yeah uh you said that becoming a yeah uh you said that becoming a billionaire requires luck yeah can you billionaire requires luck yeah can you billionaire requires luck yeah can you explain yeah I mean there's no business explain yeah I mean there's no business explain yeah I mean there's no business plan where you can just start it and say plan where you can just start it and say plan where you can just start it and say yeah I'm definitely going to be a yeah I'm definitely going to be a yeah I'm definitely going to be a billionaire you can you know if I had to billionaire you can you know if I had to billionaire you can you know if I had to start all over could I start a company start all over could I start a company start all over could I start a company that made me a millionaire yeah CU I that made me a millionaire yeah CU I that made me a millionaire yeah CU I know how to sell and I know technology know how to sell and I know technology know how to sell and I know technology and I've learned enough over the years and I've learned enough over the years and I've learned enough over the years to do that um could I make 10 million to do that um could I make 10 million to do that um could I make 10 million probably 100 million I hope so um but a probably 100 million I hope so um but a probably 100 million I hope so um but a billion just something good has got to billion just something good has got to billion just something good has got to happen you know um timing timing you happen you know um timing timing you happen you know um timing timing you know Internet stock market was going know Internet stock market was going know Internet stock market was going nuts right when we started you know and nuts right when we started you know and nuts right when we started you know and that certainly I couldn't predict or that certainly I couldn't predict or that certainly I couldn't predict or control um you know it's like AI right control um you know it's like AI right control um you know it's like AI right now ai's been around a long long long now ai's been around a long long long now ai's been around a long long long long time and the Nvidia processors or long time and the Nvidia processors or long time and the Nvidia processors or gpus rather you couldn't predict that gpus rather you couldn't predict that gpus rather you couldn't predict that now's the time that they were going to now's the time that they were going to now's the time that they were going to be get to that cost Effectiveness where be get to that cost Effectiveness where be get to that cost Effectiveness where you know you could do you could create you know you could do you could create you know you could do you could create models and train them and although it's models and train them and although it's models and train them and although it's expensive it's still doable you know we expensive it's still doable you know we expensive it's still doable you know we didn't really even we had as6 right for didn't really even we had as6 right for didn't really even we had as6 right for custom applications and we had CPUs that custom applications and we had CPUs that custom applications and we had CPUs that were leading the way but gpus were more were leading the way but gpus were more were leading the way but gpus were more for gaming and then crypto Mining and for gaming and then crypto Mining and for gaming and then crypto Mining and now all then all of a sudden they were now all then all of a sudden they were now all then all of a sudden they were the foundation for AI models so the foundation for AI models so the foundation for AI models so think luck being essential to becoming a think luck being essential to becoming a think luck being essential to becoming a billionaire is a beautiful way to see billionaire is a beautiful way to see billionaire is a beautiful way to see life in general first of all I life in general first of all I life in general first of all I personally think that everything good personally think that everything good personally think that everything good that's ever happened to me is because of that's ever happened to me is because of that's ever happened to me is because of luck I think that's just a good way of

luck I think that's just a good way of luck I think that's just a good way of being it's like uh you're grateful that being it's like uh you're grateful that being it's like uh you're grateful that said there's some examples of people said there's some examples of people said there's some examples of people that you're like they seem to have done that you're like they seem to have done that you're like they seem to have done a lot of they seem to have gotten lucky a lot of they seem to have gotten lucky a lot of they seem to have gotten lucky a lot you know we mentioned Jeff Bezos a lot you know we mentioned Jeff Bezos a lot you know we mentioned Jeff Bezos it seems it seems it seems like he did a lot of really interesting like he did a lot of really interesting like he did a lot of really interesting powerful decisions for many years with powerful decisions for many years with powerful decisions for many years with Amazon to make it successful but he was Amazon to make it successful but he was Amazon to make it successful but he was really able to raise money right a lot really able to raise money right a lot really able to raise money right a lot of money and people were really of money and people were really of money and people were really dismissive of him because they weren't dismissive of him because they weren't dismissive of him because they weren't um making they weren't profitable and we um making they weren't profitable and we um making they weren't profitable and we we were in an environment where it was we were in an environment where it was we were in an environment where it was possible to raise possible to raise that possible to raise possible to raise that possible to raise possible to raise that money I mean what about somebody you get money I mean what about somebody you get money I mean what about somebody you get sometimes uh feisty with on the internet sometimes uh feisty with on the internet sometimes uh feisty with on the internet Elon but we couldn't even look at Zuck Elon but we couldn't even look at Zuck Elon but we couldn't even look at Zuck and Bill Gates and Warren Buffett look and Bill Gates and Warren Buffett look and Bill Gates and Warren Buffett look Zuck was just trying to get laid right Zuck was just trying to get laid right Zuck was just trying to get laid right and it took off and you wrote some good and it took off and you wrote some good and it took off and you wrote some good stuffff AR we all is some level stuffff AR we all is some level stuffff AR we all is some level Foundation of human civilization right Foundation of human civilization right Foundation of human civilization right but um yeah so more power to them right but um yeah so more power to them right but um yeah so more power to them right you can't take anything away from them you can't take anything away from them you can't take anything away from them but yeah Snapchat same thing took off but yeah Snapchat same thing took off but yeah Snapchat same thing took off apps didn't take off in 2007 when the apps didn't take off in 2007 when the apps didn't take off in 2007 when the iPhone came out apps took off in 2011 iPhone came out apps took off in 2011 iPhone came out apps took off in 2011 2012 and if you were there with the 2012 and if you were there with the 2012 and if you were there with the right app at the right time and even right app at the right time and even right app at the right time and even Facebook um you know in 2004 the bubble Facebook um you know in 2004 the bubble Facebook um you know in 2004 the bubble had burst and you know the price for had burst and you know the price for had burst and you know the price for computer had fallen enough and kids in computer had fallen enough and kids in computer had fallen enough and kids in school all needed computers or laptops school all needed computers or laptops school all needed computers or laptops if he had tried to do something like if he had tried to do something like if he had tried to do something like that you know 5 years earlier I mean it that you know 5 years earlier I mean it that you know 5 years earlier I mean it was too young but you know five years was too young but you know five years was too young but you know five years earlier or five years later you know earlier or five years later you know earlier or five years later you know frster might have been the ultimate or

frster might have been the ultimate or frster might have been the ultimate or Myspace frster remember frster or Myspace frster remember frster or Myspace frster remember frster or Myspace I had a MySpace account and that Myspace I had a MySpace account and that Myspace I had a MySpace account and that was before Facebook yeah the timing is was before Facebook yeah the timing is was before Facebook yeah the timing is important but there's like the details important but there's like the details important but there's like the details of how the product is built the of how the product is built the of how the product is built the fundamentals of the product like what fundamentals of the product like what fundamentals of the product like what well so but that's what gets you when well so but that's what gets you when well so but that's what gets you when the opportunity is there the opportunity is there the opportunity is there right that's what allows you to take right that's what allows you to take right that's what allows you to take advantage of that opportunity and and advantage of that opportunity and and advantage of that opportunity and and the Kismet of it all right you've got to the Kismet of it all right you've got to the Kismet of it all right you've got to be because it wasn't like any of the be because it wasn't like any of the be because it wasn't like any of the people I mentioned there weren't others people I mentioned there weren't others people I mentioned there weren't others trying the same thing yeah right you had trying the same thing yeah right you had trying the same thing yeah right you had to be able to see it you had to be able to be able to see it you had to be able to be able to see it you had to be able to visualize it and put together a plan to visualize it and put together a plan to visualize it and put together a plan of some sort or at least have a a path of some sort or at least have a a path of some sort or at least have a a path and then you had to execute on it and do and then you had to execute on it and do and then you had to execute on it and do all those things at the same time and all those things at the same time and all those things at the same time and have the money available to you because have the money available to you because have the money available to you because it wasn't like whether it was Google or it wasn't like whether it was Google or it wasn't like whether it was Google or Facebook you know they raised a shitload Facebook you know they raised a shitload Facebook you know they raised a shitload of money it wasn't bootstrapping it that of money it wasn't bootstrapping it that of money it wasn't bootstrapping it that got them there and raising money is not got them there and raising money is not got them there and raising money is not just about sales it's about the the just about sales it's about the the just about sales it's about the the general feeling of the people with money general feeling of the people with money general feeling of the people with money at that time in at that time in at that time in proximity if duck wasn't at Harvard and proximity if duck wasn't at Harvard and proximity if duck wasn't at Harvard and he was at Miami of Ohio University or he he was at Miami of Ohio University or he he was at Miami of Ohio University or he was at Richland Community College same was at Richland Community College same was at Richland Community College same idea same person same execution and idea same person same execution and idea same person same execution and nothing I believe in the power of nothing I believe in the power of nothing I believe in the power of individuals to find individuals to find individuals to find their to realiz their potential no their to realiz their potential no their to realiz their potential no matter where they come from but I agree matter where they come from but I agree matter where they come from but I agree I agree 100% with that right but luck is I agree 100% with that right but luck is I agree 100% with that right but luck is required yeah I mean scale is the only required yeah I mean scale is the only required yeah I mean scale is the only Delta is scale yeah right we you know Delta is scale yeah right we you know Delta is scale yeah right we you know we're not all blessed with the access to we're not all blessed with the access to we're not all blessed with the access to the tools that you need to to hit that the tools that you need to to hit that the tools that you need to to hit that grand slam but then also billion is not

grand slam but then also billion is not grand slam but then also billion is not the only measure of success right the only measure of success right the only measure of success right absolutely not right there's a everybody absolutely not right there's a everybody absolutely not right there's a everybody defines the success in their own way how defines the success in their own way how defines the success in their own way how do you define success Mark Kean waking do you define success Mark Kean waking do you define success Mark Kean waking up every day with a smile excited about up every day with a smile excited about up every day with a smile excited about the day you know I was you know people the day you know I was you know people the day you know I was you know people always say well when you get that kind always say well when you get that kind always say well when you get that kind of money does it make you happy and and of money does it make you happy and and of money does it make you happy and and my answer always is it if you were happy my answer always is it if you were happy my answer always is it if you were happy when you were broke you're going to be when you were broke you're going to be when you were broke you're going to be really really really happy when you're really really really happy when you're really really really happy when you're rich but you got to work on being happy rich but you got to work on being happy rich but you got to work on being happy when you're broke I guess well you're when you're broke I guess well you're when you're broke I guess well you're just being happy right if you were just being happy right if you were just being happy right if you were miserable you know in in your job before miserable you know in in your job before miserable you know in in your job before there's a good chance you're still going there's a good chance you're still going there's a good chance you're still going to be miserable if that's just who you to be miserable if that's just who you to be miserable if that's just who you are that's a pretty good definition of are that's a pretty good definition of are that's a pretty good definition of success by the way thank you how do you success by the way thank you how do you success by the way thank you how do you reach that success by way of advice to reach that success by way of advice to reach that success by way of advice to people you you know we talked about my people you you know we talked about my people you you know we talked about my dad U my dad U my dad U my parents I never looked at my dad and parents I never looked at my dad and parents I never looked at my dad and said okay you're not successful he said okay you're not successful he said okay you're not successful he busted his ass and when he came home you busted his ass and when he came home you busted his ass and when he came home you know he we enjoyed our time together know he we enjoyed our time together know he we enjoyed our time together right there was nothing at any point in right there was nothing at any point in right there was nothing at any point in time where I felt like oh this is time where I felt like oh this is time where I felt like oh this is miserable we're awful we're you know we miserable we're awful we're you know we miserable we're awful we're you know we don't have this we don't have that you don't have this we don't have that you don't have this we don't have that you know we we celebrated the things we did know we we celebrated the things we did know we we celebrated the things we did have and um never knew about the things have and um never knew about the things have and um never knew about the things we didn't have you know and and so I we didn't have you know and and so I we didn't have you know and and so I think you know you have to be able to think you know you have to be able to think you know you have to be able to find your way to whatever it is that find your way to whatever it is that find your way to whatever it is that puts a smiling on your face every day puts a smiling on your face every day puts a smiling on your face every day some people can do it and some people some people can do it and some people some people can do it and some people can't it's not always about the smile or can't it's not always about the smile or can't it's not always about the smile or the smile on the outside it could be a the smile on the outside it could be a the smile on the outside it could be a smile on the inside yeah whatever it is smile on the inside yeah whatever it is smile on the inside yeah whatever it is right whatever makes you feel good yeah

right whatever makes you feel good yeah right whatever makes you feel good yeah the the struggle even the struggle like the the struggle even the struggle like the the struggle even the struggle like with your dad the the really really hard with your dad the the really really hard with your dad the the really really hard work can be can be a fulfilling work can be can be a fulfilling work can be can be a fulfilling experience because uh the struggle experience because uh the struggle experience because uh the struggle leading up to then seeing your kid leading up to then seeing your kid leading up to then seeing your kid exactly right right because that's that exactly right right because that's that exactly right right because that's that that was my dad's grand slam right that was my dad's grand slam right that was my dad's grand slam right seeing three kids go to college be seeing three kids go to college be seeing three kids go to college be successful you know spend be able to successful you know spend be able to successful you know spend be able to spend time with him and that was the spend time with him and that was the spend time with him and that was the other thing you know he really made me other thing you know he really made me other thing you know he really made me realize is the the most valuable asset realize is the the most valuable asset realize is the the most valuable asset isn't the money it's your time that's isn't the money it's your time that's isn't the money it's your time that's why you know from a young age I wanted why you know from a young age I wanted why you know from a young age I wanted to retire because I wanted to experience to retire because I wanted to experience to retire because I wanted to experience everything that I possibly could in this everything that I possibly could in this everything that I possibly could in this life and you know he got joy from us I life and you know he got joy from us I life and you know he got joy from us I get joy from my kids um and that's the get joy from my kids um and that's the get joy from my kids um and that's the most special thing you ever can have most special thing you ever can have most special thing you ever can have beautifully said you have made some beautifully said you have made some beautifully said you have made some mistakes in your life yeah a lot of them mistakes in your life yeah a lot of them mistakes in your life yeah a lot of them one of the bigger ones on the financial one of the bigger ones on the financial one of the bigger ones on the financial side uh we could say is uh Uber yeah we side uh we could say is uh Uber yeah we side uh we could say is uh Uber yeah we call that not doing something yeah it call that not doing something yeah it call that not doing something yeah it wasn't a mistake it was just I mean it wasn't a mistake it was just I mean it wasn't a mistake it was just I mean it was a was a was a mistake but I like how you tried to you mistake but I like how you tried to you mistake but I like how you tried to you I always try to look at mistakes at I always try to look at mistakes at I always try to look at mistakes at things you did that didn't turn out as things you did that didn't turn out as things you did that didn't turn out as opposed to things you did to you know um opposed to things you did to you know um opposed to things you did to you know um the negative but but what can you tell the negative but but what can you tell the negative but but what can you tell the story of that and maybe it's just the story of that and maybe it's just the story of that and maybe it's just interesting because it is illustrative interesting because it is illustrative interesting because it is illustrative like how to know when a thing is going like how to know when a thing is going like how to know when a thing is going to be big and not and what are the to be big and not and what are the to be big and not and what are the fundamentals of it and how to take the fundamentals of it and how to take the fundamentals of it and how to take the risk or not and all this kind of stuff risk or not and all this kind of stuff risk or not and all this kind of stuff right so the backstory of that is Bill right so the backstory of that is Bill right so the backstory of that is Bill Gurley came to me and said um Mark

Gurley came to me and said um Mark Gurley came to me and said um Mark there's this guy Travis that has this there's this guy Travis that has this there's this guy Travis that has this company red swoosh which is a company red swoosh which is a company red swoosh which is a peer-to-peer networking company that um peer-to-peer networking company that um peer-to-peer networking company that um I think you can help and so I invested I think you can help and so I invested I think you can help and so I invested and would spend a lot of time with and would spend a lot of time with and would spend a lot of time with Travis and it's funny because back then Travis and it's funny because back then Travis and it's funny because back then that was like 2006 I was an investor at that was like 2006 I was an investor at that was like 2006 I was an investor at at um box.net with Aaron Levy and oh at um box.net with Aaron Levy and oh at um box.net with Aaron Levy and oh there's one other company but there were there's one other company but there were there's one other company but there were three of them where there'd be emails three of them where there'd be emails three of them where there'd be emails between you know where I'd introduce between you know where I'd introduce between you know where I'd introduce them and we'd all talk in these emails them and we'd all talk in these emails them and we'd all talk in these emails and they'd all gone to be have and they'd all gone to be have and they'd all gone to be have astronomical success right um but so red astronomical success right um but so red astronomical success right um but so red swoosh had its issues you know cuz I swoosh had its issues you know cuz I swoosh had its issues you know cuz I always look at peer-to-peer as kind of always look at peer-to-peer as kind of always look at peer-to-peer as kind of stealing bandwidth from the internet stealing bandwidth from the internet stealing bandwidth from the internet providers when bandwidth was a scarce providers when bandwidth was a scarce providers when bandwidth was a scarce commodity um and so you know what Travis commodity um and so you know what Travis commodity um and so you know what Travis did with that though was great you know did with that though was great you know did with that though was great you know he convinced gaming companies who wanted he convinced gaming companies who wanted he convinced gaming companies who wanted to do downloads of the clients for those to do downloads of the clients for those to do downloads of the clients for those games to use his peer-to-peer in red games to use his peer-to-peer in red games to use his peer-to-peer in red swoosh and you know he busted his ass swoosh and you know he busted his ass swoosh and you know he busted his ass and I think he sold it for $18 million and I think he sold it for $18 million and I think he sold it for $18 million so he did well and so it was natural for so he did well and so it was natural for so he did well and so it was natural for him to come to me and I still have the him to come to me and I still have the him to come to me and I still have the emails you know and asked me um about emails you know and asked me um about emails you know and asked me um about Uber cap and I thought okay this is a Uber cap and I thought okay this is a Uber cap and I thought okay this is a great idea I really really like it I great idea I really really like it I great idea I really really like it I said you're going to and he showed me said you're going to and he showed me said you're going to and he showed me his budgets and I think they were his budgets and I think they were his budgets and I think they were raising money at 10 or $15 million or raising money at 10 or $15 million or raising money at 10 or $15 million or whatever and um I'm like your biggest whatever and um I'm like your biggest whatever and um I'm like your biggest challenge is going to be you're going to challenge is going to be you're going to challenge is going to be you're going to have to fight all the incumbent taxi have to fight all the incumbent taxi have to fight all the incumbent taxi commissions they're going to want to put commissions they're going to want to put commissions they're going to want to put you out of business that's going to be a you out of business that's going to be a you out of business that's going to be a challenge and I think you don't have a

challenge and I think you don't have a challenge and I think you don't have a enough money designated for marketing to enough money designated for marketing to enough money designated for marketing to get all that done and I said I'd invest get all that done and I said I'd invest get all that done and I said I'd invest but not quite at that valuation right but not quite at that valuation right but not quite at that valuation right never came back to never came back to never came back to me yeah I mean there's some lessons me yeah I mean there's some lessons me yeah I mean there's some lessons there connected to uh what you're doing there connected to uh what you're doing there connected to uh what you're doing now we'll talk about a Cost Plus drugs now we'll talk about a Cost Plus drugs now we'll talk about a Cost Plus drugs is like looking at an is like looking at an is like looking at an industry that seems like there's a lot industry that seems like there's a lot industry that seems like there's a lot of complexity involved but it's like of complexity involved but it's like of complexity involved but it's like hungry for revolution for sure and the hungry for revolution for sure and the hungry for revolution for sure and the Cals are that yeah for sure right they Cals are that yeah for sure right they Cals are that yeah for sure right they were they were dominated by an insulated were they were dominated by an insulated were they were dominated by an insulated few they were not very transparent you few they were not very transparent you few they were not very transparent you didn't know the intricacies they were ve didn't know the intricacies they were ve didn't know the intricacies they were ve very politically driven um and old boy very politically driven um and old boy very politically driven um and old boy incestuous Network and to tra you know incestuous Network and to tra you know incestuous Network and to tra you know and like I told him Travis the best and like I told him Travis the best and like I told him Travis the best thing about you is you'll run through thing about you is you'll run through thing about you is you'll run through walls and break down barriers the bad walls and break down barriers the bad walls and break down barriers the bad thing about you is you'll run through thing about you is you'll run through thing about you is you'll run through walls even if you don't have to you know walls even if you don't have to you know walls even if you don't have to you know yeah and there you kind of have to see yeah and there you kind of have to see yeah and there you kind of have to see is it possible to raise enough money is is it possible to raise enough money is is it possible to raise enough money is it possible to do all this is it it possible to do all this is it it possible to do all this is it possible is it possible to break through possible is it possible to break through possible is it possible to break through and it's kind of a fascinating success and it's kind of a fascinating success and it's kind of a fascinating success story with Uber is I think he tried to story with Uber is I think he tried to story with Uber is I think he tried to go too big he had too big an ambition go too big he had too big an ambition go too big he had too big an ambition which cost him in the end not which cost him in the end not which cost him in the end not financially and personally but just you financially and personally but just you financially and personally but just you know in terms of being able to stick it know in terms of being able to stick it know in terms of being able to stick it out with them um but you know that's out with them um but you know that's out with them um but you know that's what makes him a great entrepreneur well what makes him a great entrepreneur well what makes him a great entrepreneur well it's a fascinating success story you it's a fascinating success story you it's a fascinating success story you have like certain companies like have like certain companies like have like certain companies like Airbnb just kind of go into this thing Airbnb just kind of go into this thing Airbnb just kind of go into this thing that we take completely for granted and that we take completely for granted and that we take completely for granted and change it all just change it all yeah change it all just change it all yeah change it all just change it all yeah blinda Johnson who worked as our general blinda Johnson who worked as our general blinda Johnson who worked as our general counsel at broadcast.com was you know

counsel at broadcast.com was you know counsel at broadcast.com was you know was Brian's um GC and Chief Operating was Brian's um GC and Chief Operating was Brian's um GC and Chief Operating Officer so yeah they they had a smart Officer so yeah they they had a smart Officer so yeah they they had a smart smart smart smart team and they believed smart smart smart team and they believed smart smart smart team and they believed in it and they I mean it's just it's a in it and they I mean it's just it's a in it and they I mean it's just it's a it's a beautiful story cuz you're like it's a beautiful story cuz you're like it's a beautiful story cuz you're like all right all the things that annoy you all right all the things that annoy you all right all the things that annoy you about this world like they're about this world like they're about this world like they're inefficient and it just seem like pain I inefficient and it just seem like pain I inefficient and it just seem like pain I probably would have said no like a lot probably would have said no like a lot probably would have said no like a lot of people did to Airbnb because I'm like of people did to Airbnb because I'm like of people did to Airbnb because I'm like I don't want people sitting my sleeping I don't want people sitting my sleeping I don't want people sitting my sleeping in my bed I would have too I was like in my bed I would have too I was like in my bed I would have too I was like this is not going to work I've done like this is not going to work I've done like this is not going to work I've done like cou surfing and stuff and it was always cou surfing and stuff and it was always cou surfing and stuff and it was always it didn't seem right it didn't seem like it didn't seem right it didn't seem like it didn't seem right it didn't seem like you could do this at a large scale to you could do this at a large scale to you could do this at a large scale to monetize it yeah but he did more power monetize it yeah but he did more power monetize it yeah but he did more power to him in 2000 I think January you to him in 2000 I think January you to him in 2000 I think January you purchased a majority stake in the the purchased a majority stake in the the purchased a majority stake in the the NBA team Dallas NBA team Dallas NBA team Dallas Mavericks uh for 285 million so at this Mavericks uh for 285 million so at this Mavericks uh for 285 million so at this point maybe you can correct me but it point maybe you can correct me but it point maybe you can correct me but it was one of the worst performing teams in was one of the worst performing teams in was one of the worst performing teams in franchise history uh true how did how franchise history uh true how did how franchise history uh true how did how did you help turn it around um I had did you help turn it around um I had did you help turn it around um I had this big tall guy named Dirk niski and I this big tall guy named Dirk niski and I this big tall guy named Dirk niski and I let him be Dirk nitzki right and I got let him be Dirk nitzki right and I got let him be Dirk nitzki right and I got out of the way um but I think more than out of the way um but I think more than out of the way um but I think more than anything else um there was the anything else um there was the anything else um there was the turnaround on the business side and then turnaround on the business side and then turnaround on the business side and then there was the turnaround the basketball there was the turnaround the basketball there was the turnaround the basketball side and on the basketball side I just side and on the basketball side I just side and on the basketball side I just went in there immediately said whatever went in there immediately said whatever went in there immediately said whatever it takes to win that's what we're going it takes to win that's what we're going it takes to win that's what we're going to do um you know back then they had to do um you know back then they had to do um you know back then they had three or four coaches that were three or four coaches that were three or four coaches that were responsible for everything and I was responsible for everything and I was responsible for everything and I was like okay we spend more money training like okay we spend more money training like okay we spend more money training people on PC software than we do people on PC software than we do people on PC software than we do developing the most important assets of developing the most important assets of developing the most important assets of the business so I made the decision to

the business so I made the decision to the business so I made the decision to go out there and hire like 15 different go out there and hire like 15 different go out there and hire like 15 different development coaches one for each player development coaches one for each player development coaches one for each player and everybody thought I was just insane and everybody thought I was just insane and everybody thought I was just insane but you know it sent the message that we but you know it sent the message that we but you know it sent the message that we were going to do whatever it took to win were going to do whatever it took to win were going to do whatever it took to win and once the guys believe that you know and once the guys believe that you know and once the guys believe that you know winning was the goal as opposed to just winning was the goal as opposed to just winning was the goal as opposed to just making money attitudes change effort making money attitudes change effort making money attitudes change effort went up and you know the rest is history went up and you know the rest is history went up and you know the rest is history so the assets of the business here are so the assets of the business here are so the assets of the business here are the the players the players yeah for the the players the players yeah for the the players the players yeah for sure and then on on the business side sure and then on on the business side sure and then on on the business side the first question I asked myself is the first question I asked myself is the first question I asked myself is what business are we in and I really what business are we in and I really what business are we in and I really didn't know the answer immediately but didn't know the answer immediately but didn't know the answer immediately but within the first few months it was within the first few months it was within the first few months it was obvious that you know the the entire NBA obvious that you know the the entire NBA obvious that you know the the entire NBA thought we were in the business of thought we were in the business of thought we were in the business of basketball we were not we were in The basketball we were not we were in The basketball we were not we were in The Experience business when you think about Experience business when you think about Experience business when you think about sporting events that you've been to you sporting events that you've been to you sporting events that you've been to you don't remember the score you don't don't remember the score you don't don't remember the score you don't remember the home runs or the dunks you remember the home runs or the dunks you remember the home runs or the dunks you remember who you were with and you remember who you were with and you remember who you were with and you remember why you went oh was my first remember why you went oh was my first remember why you went oh was my first date with the girl who now my wife or I date with the girl who now my wife or I date with the girl who now my wife or I went with my buddies and he threw up on went with my buddies and he threw up on went with my buddies and he threw up on the person in front of us you know my the person in front of us you know my the person in front of us you know my dad took me my aunt my uncle took me dad took me my aunt my uncle took me dad took me my aunt my uncle took me those are the experiences you remember those are the experiences you remember those are the experiences you remember and once um I conveyed to our people and once um I conveyed to our people and once um I conveyed to our people that this is what we were selling that that this is what we were selling that that this is what we were selling that what happened in the arena um off the what happened in the arena um off the what happened in the arena um off the court was just as important as what court was just as important as what court was just as important as what happened on the court if not more so happened on the court if not more so happened on the court if not more so because if you know Mom or Dad are because if you know Mom or Dad are because if you know Mom or Dad are bringing the 10-year-old you have to bringing the 10-year-old you have to bringing the 10-year-old you have to keep them occupied because they have keep them occupied because they have keep them occupied because they have short attention spans and so you know I short attention spans and so you know I short attention spans and so you know I would get into fights with the NBA you would get into fights with the NBA you would get into fights with the NBA you know put aside the refs but getting know put aside the refs but getting know put aside the refs but getting aside in fights in the NBA I would say

aside in fights in the NBA I would say aside in fights in the NBA I would say NBA nothing but attorneys right because NBA nothing but attorneys right because NBA nothing but attorneys right because they had no marketing skills whatsoever they had no marketing skills whatsoever they had no marketing skills whatsoever and to their credit you know they and to their credit you know they and to their credit you know they realized that was a problem and started realized that was a problem and started realized that was a problem and started bringing in better and better better bringing in better and better better bringing in better and better better marketing people so part of the selling marketing people so part of the selling marketing people so part of the selling is you're selling the team selling the is you're selling the team selling the is you're selling the team selling the sport sport sport selling the people the idea the all of selling the people the idea the all of selling the people the idea the all of it like just the well yeah the it like just the well yeah the it like just the well yeah the experience so if you have you ever been experience so if you have you ever been experience so if you have you ever been to an NBA game yeah Miami Heat you to an NBA game yeah Miami Heat you to an NBA game yeah Miami Heat you remember walking into the arena and you remember walking into the arena and you remember walking into the arena and you feel the energy right that's what makes feel the energy right that's what makes feel the energy right that's what makes it special yeah the energy is everything it special yeah the energy is everything it special yeah the energy is everything especially playoff games right for sure especially playoff games right for sure especially playoff games right for sure right and even a regular season game right and even a regular season game right and even a regular season game right even against the worst team you right even against the worst team you right even against the worst team you know that's where we get you know know that's where we get you know know that's where we get you know because the tickets are tend to be a because the tickets are tend to be a because the tickets are tend to be a little bit cheaper on the resale Market little bit cheaper on the resale Market little bit cheaper on the resale Market that's where parents will bring their that's where parents will bring their that's where parents will bring their kids and so you hear kids screaming the kids and so you hear kids screaming the kids and so you hear kids screaming the entire game and the parents are thrilled entire game and the parents are thrilled entire game and the parents are thrilled to death right they got to do something to death right they got to do something to death right they got to do something with your kids the kids are thrilled to with your kids the kids are thrilled to with your kids the kids are thrilled to death because they got to see basketball death because they got to see basketball death because they got to see basketball an NBA game and scream at the top of an NBA game and scream at the top of an NBA game and scream at the top of their lungs and you know if it turns out their lungs and you know if it turns out their lungs and you know if it turns out to be a close game and that ball's in to be a close game and that ball's in to be a close game and that ball's in the air and if it goes in you know the air and if it goes in you know the air and if it goes in you know everybody's hugging and high-f fiveing everybody's hugging and high-f fiveing everybody's hugging and high-f fiveing people you've never seen before in your people you've never seen before in your people you've never seen before in your life and if it misses you're life and if it misses you're life and if it misses you're commiserating with people you've never commiserating with people you've never commiserating with people you've never seen that's such a unique experience seen that's such a unique experience seen that's such a unique experience that's unique to sports and we never that's unique to sports and we never that's unique to sports and we never sold that and that's exactly what we sold that and that's exactly what we sold that and that's exactly what we started see I have to say like just started see I have to say like just started see I have to say like just going to that game turned me around on going to that game turned me around on going to that game turned me around on basketball cuz I'm more of a football basketball cuz I'm more of a football basketball cuz I'm more of a football guy so basketball wasn't like them a guy so basketball wasn't like them a guy so basketball wasn't like them a sport I was like oh wow okay ener like sport I was like oh wow okay ener like sport I was like oh wow okay ener like yeah the energy in a in a stadium is yeah the energy in a in a stadium is yeah the energy in a in a stadium is completely different than the energy in completely different than the energy in completely different than the energy in Arena you know you can you know in the Arena you know you can you know in the Arena you know you can you know in the stadium particularly if it doesn't have stadium particularly if it doesn't have stadium particularly if it doesn't have a roof it's hard to to bottle that a roof it's hard to to bottle that a roof it's hard to to bottle that energy you feel it and you see like I'm

energy you feel it and you see like I'm energy you feel it and you see like I'm from Pittsburgh so there's a terrible from Pittsburgh so there's a terrible from Pittsburgh so there's a terrible tows and people screaming defense and tows and people screaming defense and tows and people screaming defense and everything everything everything at Steelers games but in an arena you at Steelers games but in an arena you at Steelers games but in an arena you the energy level is just Indescribable the energy level is just Indescribable the energy level is just Indescribable so how much of it is the selling the so how much of it is the selling the so how much of it is the selling the tickets in person but also uh versus tickets in person but also uh versus tickets in person but also uh versus what you see on TV so when you're owning what you see on TV so when you're owning what you see on TV so when you're owning a team do you get any of the cut for the a team do you get any of the cut for the a team do you get any of the cut for the what's showing on TV yeah yeah we yeah what's showing on TV yeah yeah we yeah what's showing on TV yeah yeah we yeah so the there's a TV deal that's done so the there's a TV deal that's done so the there's a TV deal that's done with either a local TV broadcaster and with either a local TV broadcaster and with either a local TV broadcaster and we get all of that or um a network we get all of that or um a network we get all of that or um a network broadcaster like abcc um ESPN TNT broadcaster like abcc um ESPN TNT broadcaster like abcc um ESPN TNT whatever and then we get 130th of that whatever and then we get 130th of that whatever and then we get 130th of that so what role does the TV play in like so what role does the TV play in like so what role does the TV play in like turning a team keeps fans connected look turning a team keeps fans connected look turning a team keeps fans connected look when a team is doing really well it's when a team is doing really well it's when a team is doing really well it's easy right there's more viewers easy right there's more viewers easy right there's more viewers everybody's more excited um and when everybody's more excited um and when everybody's more excited um and when you're not it you know there's still you're not it you know there's still you're not it you know there's still going to be hardcore fans and and you going to be hardcore fans and and you going to be hardcore fans and and you know General fans and kids that like to know General fans and kids that like to know General fans and kids that like to watch the game what about like the watch the game what about like the watch the game what about like the personality of the people in the in in personality of the people in the in in personality of the people in the in in the stands like I mean clearly you're the stands like I mean clearly you're the stands like I mean clearly you're part of the legend of the part of the legend of the part of the legend of the team because you're literally there team because you're literally there team because you're literally there going yeah screaming yeah the whole game going yeah screaming yeah the whole game going yeah screaming yeah the whole game right yeah it's funny you know you the right yeah it's funny you know you the right yeah it's funny you know you the way I am here is how I am you know 24 way I am here is how I am you know 24 way I am here is how I am you know 24 hours a day unless there's a Mavs game hours a day unless there's a Mavs game hours a day unless there's a Mavs game yeah you know and and for whatever yeah you know and and for whatever yeah you know and and for whatever reason that's where I let out all that reason that's where I let out all that reason that's where I let out all that stress and frustration um but yeah I stress and frustration um but yeah I stress and frustration um but yeah I mean it's not so the fans you know the mean it's not so the fans you know the mean it's not so the fans you know the sixth man right we need fans to bring sixth man right we need fans to bring sixth man right we need fans to bring that energy and you know amplifying that that energy and you know amplifying that that energy and you know amplifying that as much as we can is important you've as much as we can is important you've as much as we can is important you've had a beef recently on Twitter on X with

had a beef recently on Twitter on X with had a beef recently on Twitter on X with Elon over Dei programs Elon over Dei programs Elon over Dei programs what to you is the essence of the what to you is the essence of the what to you is the essence of the disagreement there I wouldn't call it a disagreement there I wouldn't call it a disagreement there I wouldn't call it a beef right I it's just it's a bit of fun beef right I it's just it's a bit of fun beef right I it's just it's a bit of fun yeah it's fun for me right um I just you yeah it's fun for me right um I just you yeah it's fun for me right um I just you know it's his platform he gets to run it know it's his platform he gets to run it know it's his platform he gets to run it anyway please he pays for that right and anyway please he pays for that right and anyway please he pays for that right and so I have total respect for whatever so I have total respect for whatever so I have total respect for whatever choices he makes even if I don't agree choices he makes even if I don't agree choices he makes even if I don't agree with them but because it's his platform with them but because it's his platform with them but because it's his platform people are less likely to um disagree people are less likely to um disagree people are less likely to um disagree with him particularly somebody who's of with him particularly somebody who's of with him particularly somebody who's of who's got a platform themselves and so who's got a platform themselves and so who's got a platform themselves and so when we start talking about Dei and it's when we start talking about Dei and it's when we start talking about Dei and it's just de facto racist and this stuff just de facto racist and this stuff just de facto racist and this stuff stuff that I just think is nonsense I stuff that I just think is nonsense I stuff that I just think is nonsense I have no problem you know sharing my have no problem you know sharing my have no problem you know sharing my opinion um and you know if he disagrees opinion um and you know if he disagrees opinion um and you know if he disagrees okay he can disagree I don't care you okay he can disagree I don't care you okay he can disagree I don't care you know and it's fun to engage but he know and it's fun to engage but he know and it's fun to engage but he doesn't really engage you know he just doesn't really engage you know he just doesn't really engage you know he just comes back with snark comments which is comes back with snark comments which is comes back with snark comments which is you know his choice yeah you in your you know his choice yeah you in your you know his choice yeah you in your comments well you do a bit of snark too comments well you do a bit of snark too comments well you do a bit of snark too but yeah a little but yeah a little but yeah a little bit but you you're pretty um let's say bit but you you're pretty um let's say bit but you you're pretty um let's say rigorous in your response so there is rigorous in your response so there is rigorous in your response so there is some exchange of ideas there's some some exchange of ideas there's some some exchange of ideas there's some snark there's some fun all that kind of snark there's some fun all that kind of snark there's some fun all that kind of stuff and uh you do voice the opinion stuff and uh you do voice the opinion stuff and uh you do voice the opinion that represents a a large number of that represents a a large number of that represents a a large number of people and it's great I mean that that's people and it's great I mean that that's people and it's great I mean that that's what's it's really beautiful uh but just what's it's really beautiful uh but just what's it's really beautiful uh but just lingering on the topic what to you is

lingering on the topic what to you is lingering on the topic what to you is the good and the bad of Dei programs the good and the bad of Dei programs the good and the bad of Dei programs really simple right d is diversity and really simple right d is diversity and really simple right d is diversity and that means you just expand your pull of that means you just expand your pull of that means you just expand your pull of potential applicants to people who you potential applicants to people who you potential applicants to people who you might not otherwise have access to you might not otherwise have access to you might not otherwise have access to you know to look where you didn't look know to look where you didn't look know to look where you didn't look before to look where other people aren't before to look where other people aren't before to look where other people aren't looking for Quality employees um that's looking for Quality employees um that's looking for Quality employees um that's simple and the e in equity means when simple and the e in equity means when simple and the e in equity means when you hire somebody you put them in a you hire somebody you put them in a you hire somebody you put them in a position to succeed the eye inclusion is position to succeed the eye inclusion is position to succeed the eye inclusion is when you've hire somebody and they may when you've hire somebody and they may when you've hire somebody and they may not be typical if you will right you not be typical if you will right you not be typical if you will right you show them some love and and give them show them some love and and give them show them some love and and give them the support they need so they can do the support they need so they can do the support they need so they can do their job as best they can and feel their job as best they can and feel their job as best they can and feel comfortable and confident going to work comfortable and confident going to work comfortable and confident going to work it's that simple so that's a beautiful it's that simple so that's a beautiful it's that simple so that's a beautiful ideal when it's implemented implemented ideal when it's implemented implemented ideal when it's implemented implemented poorly perhaps or in a way that doesn't poorly perhaps or in a way that doesn't poorly perhaps or in a way that doesn't reach that ideal do you see maybe when reach that ideal do you see maybe when reach that ideal do you see maybe when it's uh quota based do you see that it it's uh quota based do you see that it it's uh quota based do you see that it can result in essentially racism towards can result in essentially racism towards can result in essentially racism towards Asian people and white people for Asian people and white people for Asian people and white people for example there's a lot to unpack there example there's a lot to unpack there example there's a lot to unpack there right um so first you can't do quotas right um so first you can't do quotas right um so first you can't do quotas they're illegal unless they you're um they're illegal unless they you're um they're illegal unless they you're um and I'm not the lawyer on this subject and I'm not the lawyer on this subject and I'm not the lawyer on this subject but unless you're you're trying to but unless you're you're trying to but unless you're you're trying to repair something that's happened in the repair something that's happened in the repair something that's happened in the past like some discrimination that's past like some discrimination that's past like some discrimination that's happened in the past so it's not quota happened in the past so it's not quota happened in the past so it's not quota based and I think that's really just based and I think that's really just based and I think that's really just kind of a a straw man that that people kind of a a straw man that that people kind of a a straw man that that people put out there now does that mean that put out there now does that mean that put out there now does that mean that there aren't Dei programs that are there aren't Dei programs that are there aren't Dei programs that are implemented poorly of course not there implemented poorly of course not there implemented poorly of course not there are everything that's implemented poorly

are everything that's implemented poorly are everything that's implemented poorly in one company to another right sales in one company to another right sales in one company to another right sales marketing um Human Resources you can marketing um Human Resources you can marketing um Human Resources you can pick any element of business and find pick any element of business and find pick any element of business and find companies that implement it poorly um companies that implement it poorly um companies that implement it poorly um but that's the beauty of capitalism in a but that's the beauty of capitalism in a but that's the beauty of capitalism in a free market or mostly free market where free market or mostly free market where free market or mostly free market where if you make these choices and they are if you make these choices and they are if you make these choices and they are the wrong choices you're going to lose the wrong choices you're going to lose the wrong choices you're going to lose your best people you're not going to be your best people you're not going to be your best people you're not going to be able to hire the best people you're not able to hire the best people you're not able to hire the best people you're not going to execute on your business plans going to execute on your business plans going to execute on your business plans in the way that we discussed regardless in the way that we discussed regardless in the way that we discussed regardless of the size of the company and it also I of the size of the company and it also I of the size of the company and it also I think depends on where you're having the think depends on where you're having the think depends on where you're having the discussion so when I'm in a different discussion so when I'm in a different discussion so when I'm in a different group of people off of X the feedback is group of people off of X the feedback is group of people off of X the feedback is completely different right um completely different right um completely different right um but to your question of Reverse Racism but to your question of Reverse Racism but to your question of Reverse Racism yes it happens there's I mean because yes it happens there's I mean because yes it happens there's I mean because people are people there's no you know people are people there's no you know people are people there's no you know there's no human being that is 100% there's no human being that is 100% there's no human being that is 100% objective and objective and objective and it's also there's very very very few it's also there's very very very few it's also there's very very very few jobs that can be determined on a purely jobs that can be determined on a purely jobs that can be determined on a purely quantitative quantitative basis right quantitative quantitative basis right quantitative quantitative basis right how do you tell one good J One janitor how do you tell one good J One janitor how do you tell one good J One janitor from the other who's the best right how from the other who's the best right how from the other who's the best right how do you tell one salesperson that you're do you tell one salesperson that you're do you tell one salesperson that you're hiring versus another you're hiring hiring versus another you're hiring hiring versus another you're hiring because they haven't sold your product because they haven't sold your product because they haven't sold your product yet so you don't know we talked earlier yet so you don't know we talked earlier yet so you don't know we talked earlier about firing people because you made about firing people because you made about firing people because you made mistakes and you know yes there's mistakes and you know yes there's mistakes and you know yes there's discrimination against any group White discrimination against any group White discrimination against any group White Asian black green orange whatever it may

Asian black green orange whatever it may Asian black green orange whatever it may be but I truly believe that there's far be but I truly believe that there's far be but I truly believe that there's far more discrimination against people of more discrimination against people of more discrimination against people of color than there are people who are color than there are people who are color than there are people who are white and I think it's it's become a white and I think it's it's become a white and I think it's it's become a straw man that reverse discrimination straw man that reverse discrimination straw man that reverse discrimination because of Dei is is prevalent or near because of Dei is is prevalent or near because of Dei is is prevalent or near ubiquitous uh well much of American ubiquitous uh well much of American ubiquitous uh well much of American History was defined by intense radical History was defined by intense radical History was defined by intense radical racism and sexism mhm racism and sexism mhm racism and sexism mhm but in the recent years there's a a but in the recent years there's a a but in the recent years there's a a correction and I think the nature of the correction and I think the nature of the correction and I think the nature of the criticism is that there's an criticism is that there's an criticism is that there's an overcorrection where Dei programs at overcorrection where Dei programs at overcorrection where Dei programs at universities and companies are often universities and companies are often universities and companies are often when they're not doing their job well when they're not doing their job well when they're not doing their job well are often hard to criticize because when are often hard to criticize because when are often hard to criticize because when you criticize them within the company or you criticize them within the company or you criticize them within the company or so on you can they have a very strong so on you can they have a very strong so on you can they have a very strong immune system where that you could they immune system where that you could they immune system where that you could they could if you criticize a dii program it could if you criticize a dii program it could if you criticize a dii program it seems like it's very easy to be called seems like it's very easy to be called seems like it's very easy to be called racist and if you're called racist or racist and if you're called racist or racist and if you're called racist or sexist that's that's a sticky label for sexist that's that's a sticky label for sexist that's that's a sticky label for some reason so you're getting into the some reason so you're getting into the some reason so you're getting into the culture of organizations right and culture of organizations right and culture of organizations right and Leadership within Leadership within Leadership within organizations and accepting any type of organizations and accepting any type of organizations and accepting any type of criticism put aside criticism put aside criticism put aside Dei when I criticized the referees in Dei when I criticized the referees in Dei when I criticized the referees in the MBA I got fined right that was their the MBA I got fined right that was their the MBA I got fined right that was their option I knew what I was getting into option I knew what I was getting into option I knew what I was getting into right not that they're completely right not that they're completely right not that they're completely analogist but it's cause and effect if analogist but it's cause and effect if analogist but it's cause and effect if I'm in a major company and I'm publicly

I'm in a major company and I'm publicly I'm in a major company and I'm publicly criticizing or even internally criticizing or even internally criticizing or even internally criticizing a sales plan or a product criticizing a sales plan or a product criticizing a sales plan or a product our product sucks right or like there our product sucks right or like there our product sucks right or like there was a Google engineer that got fired for was a Google engineer that got fired for was a Google engineer that got fired for saying you know Google had AGI right and saying you know Google had AGI right and saying you know Google had AGI right and nobody believed they did and they knew nobody believed they did and they knew nobody believed they did and they knew that created problems it wasn't de that created problems it wasn't de that created problems it wasn't de related but it was you know saying related but it was you know saying related but it was you know saying something publicly that was to the in in something publicly that was to the in in something publicly that was to the in in the CEO's eyes to the detriment of the the CEO's eyes to the detriment of the the CEO's eyes to the detriment of the company right so I think those are all company right so I think those are all company right so I think those are all analogist if you you're trying to analogist if you you're trying to analogist if you you're trying to accomplish something within an accomplish something within an accomplish something within an organization because you think there's a organization because you think there's a organization because you think there's a problem and there's people speaking out problem and there's people speaking out problem and there's people speaking out saying look you we're getting it wrong I saying look you we're getting it wrong I saying look you we're getting it wrong I think I'm I'm a victim of all this and think I'm I'm a victim of all this and think I'm I'm a victim of all this and the company right then you know the company right then you know the company right then you know leadership has got to make a decision do leadership has got to make a decision do leadership has got to make a decision do do they agree or not agree are they do they agree or not agree are they do they agree or not agree are they right or they wrong is it to the the right or they wrong is it to the the right or they wrong is it to the the positive is it positive or negative to positive is it positive or negative to positive is it positive or negative to the company and you decide so you know the company and you decide so you know the company and you decide so you know this conversation that conservatives are this conversation that conservatives are this conversation that conservatives are being um silenced in organization being um silenced in organization being um silenced in organization now um I just I haven't seen it you know now um I just I haven't seen it you know now um I just I haven't seen it you know I've talked to and then the other side I've talked to and then the other side I've talked to and then the other side of the your question I think I'm packing of the your question I think I'm packing of the your question I think I'm packing it is it is it is um what's driving all this put aside um what's driving all this put aside um what's driving all this put aside universities for one in Corporate universities for one in Corporate universities for one in Corporate America when I talk to people in America when I talk to people in America when I talk to people in Corporate America about um Corporate America about um Corporate America about um Dei they always start talking about Dei they always start talking about Dei they always start talking about ideology right and like I talked to Bill ideology right and like I talked to Bill ideology right and like I talked to Bill who you've had on right and when I asked who you've had on right and when I asked who you've had on right and when I asked him well Bill you run your own companies

him well Bill you run your own companies him well Bill you run your own companies who's telling you what to do they are who's telling you what to do they are who's telling you what to do they are who's they well it's the universities who's they well it's the universities who's they well it's the universities you know the people who have this you know the people who have this you know the people who have this ideology of Dei I'm like did they force ideology of Dei I'm like did they force ideology of Dei I'm like did they force you did they coer you did did you lose you did they coer you did did you lose you did they coer you did did you lose control of your company no it's not me control of your company no it's not me control of your company no it's not me it happens to other people then I talk it happens to other people then I talk it happens to other people then I talk to other people same thing so I get you to other people same thing so I get you to other people same thing so I get you know try not to go oneon-one and tip know try not to go oneon-one and tip know try not to go oneon-one and tip Twitter conversations on this topic so Twitter conversations on this topic so Twitter conversations on this topic so in the DMS I'll talk to people who are in the DMS I'll talk to people who are in the DMS I'll talk to people who are really um conservative and I'll ask the really um conservative and I'll ask the really um conservative and I'll ask the same question um and be like well who's same question um and be like well who's same question um and be like well who's forcing you to do this well it's the forcing you to do this well it's the forcing you to do this well it's the ideology that's Everywhere You See It ideology that's Everywhere You See It ideology that's Everywhere You See It Don't didn't you see the Harvard thing Don't didn't you see the Harvard thing Don't didn't you see the Harvard thing you know in University of North Carolina you know in University of North Carolina you know in University of North Carolina I'm like I've never had anybody try to I'm like I've never had anybody try to I'm like I've never had anybody try to push me in this direction to do this push me in this direction to do this push me in this direction to do this this was my business Choice I'm not this was my business Choice I'm not this was my business Choice I'm not trying to tell other people you have to trying to tell other people you have to trying to tell other people you have to do this you make your own business do this you make your own business do this you make your own business choices and so where companies have made choices and so where companies have made choices and so where companies have made their business choices and somebody their business choices and somebody their business choices and somebody doesn't feel confident or comfortable doesn't feel confident or comfortable doesn't feel confident or comfortable with it they may feel they're being with it they may feel they're being with it they may feel they're being discriminated against there was discriminated against there was discriminated against there was something I just read in the Wall Street something I just read in the Wall Street something I just read in the Wall Street Journal where the Wall Street Journal Journal where the Wall Street Journal Journal where the Wall Street Journal had a company interviewed two million had a company interviewed two million had a company interviewed two million people right and the difficulty and people right and the difficulty and people right and the difficulty and firing and how people when they were firing and how people when they were firing and how people when they were fired 40% of the people who were fired fired 40% of the people who were fired fired 40% of the people who were fired felt like it was wrong that they were felt like it was wrong that they were felt like it was wrong that they were doing a great job yet they then I talked doing a great job yet they then I talked doing a great job yet they then I talked about the HR person going through the about the HR person going through the about the HR person going through the hassle of trying to explain to this hassle of trying to explain to this hassle of trying to explain to this person through performance reviews that person through performance reviews that person through performance reviews that they weren't doing a good job yet the

they weren't doing a good job yet the they weren't doing a good job yet the people still thought they were doing a people still thought they were doing a people still thought they were doing a great job despite being told they're not great job despite being told they're not great job despite being told they're not doing a good job right so I see that as doing a good job right so I see that as doing a good job right so I see that as being an analogist to all this you know being an analogist to all this you know being an analogist to all this you know this huffing and puffing about um this huffing and puffing about um this huffing and puffing about um reverse discriminations and reverse discriminations and reverse discriminations and conservatives not being able to speak up conservatives not being able to speak up conservatives not being able to speak up because 40% of people who have been because 40% of people who have been because 40% of people who have been fired don't believe they should have fired don't believe they should have fired don't believe they should have been fired there's there's a disconnect been fired there's there's a disconnect been fired there's there's a disconnect somewhere in how you think you're doing somewhere in how you think you're doing somewhere in how you think you're doing your job and um your job and um your job and um if you just feel like I can't speak up if you just feel like I can't speak up if you just feel like I can't speak up because of it um because of you're white because of it um because of you're white because of it um because of you're white and that doesn't comport well with Dei and that doesn't comport well with Dei and that doesn't comport well with Dei programs a lot of things are going to programs a lot of things are going to programs a lot of things are going to happen right either you're going to happen right either you're going to happen right either you're going to that's going to come up in your that's going to come up in your that's going to come up in your performance review HR or your your boss performance review HR or your your boss performance review HR or your your boss is going to have to address it in some is going to have to address it in some is going to have to address it in some way it's going to get to HR at some way it's going to get to HR at some way it's going to get to HR at some level and then decisions are going to level and then decisions are going to level and then decisions are going to have to be made and Comm and you can't have to be made and Comm and you can't have to be made and Comm and you can't just fire somebody because they spoke up just fire somebody because they spoke up just fire somebody because they spoke up right somebody's going to have to right somebody's going to have to right somebody's going to have to communicate with you and so I think a communicate with you and so I think a communicate with you and so I think a lot of I just I I just don't trust the lot of I just I I just don't trust the lot of I just I I just don't trust the supposed volume that people say it's supposed volume that people say it's supposed volume that people say it's happening that versus everything I've happening that versus everything I've happening that versus everything I've read and seen and when I talk to people read and seen and when I talk to people read and seen and when I talk to people in positions of authority within in positions of authority within in positions of authority within organizations and ask them who's forcing organizations and ask them who's forcing organizations and ask them who's forcing them you know to implement these them you know to implement these them you know to implement these ideologies nobody says nobody says yes ideologies nobody says nobody says yes ideologies nobody says nobody says yes that there is that there is that there is somebody but on Twitter it sounds great somebody but on Twitter it sounds great somebody but on Twitter it sounds great it is true for conservatives but in it is true for conservatives but in it is true for conservatives but in general you can sell books can get likes general you can sell books can get likes general you can sell books can get likes yes when you talk about this ideology yes when you talk about this ideology yes when you talk about this ideology and there's a degree to which is is this

and there's a degree to which is is this and there's a degree to which is is this woke ideology in the room with us right woke ideology in the room with us right woke ideology in the room with us right now uh meaning like it's this boogie now uh meaning like it's this boogie now uh meaning like it's this boogie monster that we're all kind of or is it monster that we're all kind of or is it monster that we're all kind of or is it a positive I guess another way to say a positive I guess another way to say a positive I guess another way to say that is they don't highlight a lot of that is they don't highlight a lot of that is they don't highlight a lot of the positive progress that's been made the positive progress that's been made the positive progress that's been made in the positive version of the word woke in the positive version of the word woke in the positive version of the word woke in terms of correcting some of the in terms of correcting some of the in terms of correcting some of the wrongs done in the past so but that said wrongs done in the past so but that said wrongs done in the past so but that said you know if you ask people in Russia so the vision the ideal of di is is a so the vision the ideal of di is is a beautiful ideal it's just like well beautiful ideal it's just like well beautiful ideal it's just like well maybe it's because I'm an entrepreneur

maybe it's because I'm an entrepreneur maybe it's because I'm an entrepreneur when I see an ideal that you know you when I see an ideal that you know you when I see an ideal that you know you try to implement it and support it and try to implement it and support it and try to implement it and support it and get to that point but universities and get to that point but universities and get to that point but universities and companies are night and day different companies are night and day different companies are night and day different right I can see an argument for the right I can see an argument for the right I can see an argument for the ideology in a university I can see you ideology in a university I can see you ideology in a university I can see you know you look at the the the amount of know you look at the the the amount of know you look at the the the amount of money spent on it and so while the the money spent on it and so while the the money spent on it and so while the the goal is right um the way they implement goal is right um the way they implement goal is right um the way they implement it in universities the way they it in universities the way they it in universities the way they Implement most things in universities is Implement most things in universities is Implement most things in universities is wrong right there's a reason why tuition wrong right there's a reason why tuition wrong right there's a reason why tuition has gone up you know a multitude of uh has gone up you know a multitude of uh has gone up you know a multitude of uh or a multiple of inflation um they're or a multiple of inflation um they're or a multiple of inflation um they're not well-run organizations across the not well-run organizations across the not well-run organizations across the board so I'm not going to argue with board so I'm not going to argue with board so I'm not going to argue with that at all so when you've seen me argue that at all so when you've seen me argue that at all so when you've seen me argue with Dei I haven't waited into Dei and with Dei I haven't waited into Dei and with Dei I haven't waited into Dei and Universities at all so it's mostly Universities at all so it's mostly Universities at all so it's mostly focused on companies 100% right because focused on companies 100% right because focused on companies 100% right because that's where where I exist but at the that's where where I exist but at the that's where where I exist but at the same time like I read Christopher ru's same time like I read Christopher ru's same time like I read Christopher ru's book where he talks about the kind of book where he talks about the kind of book where he talks about the kind of the genealogy of ISM and and ideology the genealogy of ISM and and ideology the genealogy of ISM and and ideology but then he gets to the point and I hope but then he gets to the point and I hope but then he gets to the point and I hope I'm remembering this right where he says I'm remembering this right where he says I'm remembering this right where he says that the response to it is that the response to it is that the response to it is decentralized activism if you will decentralized activism if you will decentralized activism if you will that's not the word he used to try to that's not the word he used to try to that's not the word he used to try to counter that counter that counter that Dei Dei Dei and that seems to me to be counter to and that seems to me to be counter to and that seems to me to be counter to the whole conservative movement right the whole conservative movement right the whole conservative movement right now right other than School boards right now right other than School boards right now right other than School boards right where it's centralized and you know the where it's centralized and you know the where it's centralized and you know the Republican candidate is all about Republican candidate is all about Republican candidate is all about centralized power in him and you know I centralized power in him and you know I centralized power in him and you know I to me that's just a conflict in a lot of

to me that's just a conflict in a lot of to me that's just a conflict in a lot of the under opinion of this of the whole the under opinion of this of the whole the under opinion of this of the whole Dei conversation that a lot of it and a Dei conversation that a lot of it and a Dei conversation that a lot of it and a lot of which goes through Christopher Ru lot of which goes through Christopher Ru lot of which goes through Christopher Ru right now let's continue on a theme of right now let's continue on a theme of right now let's continue on a theme of fun exchanges on the internet so Elon fun exchanges on the internet so Elon fun exchanges on the internet so Elon tweeted the fundamental exatic flaw of tweeted the fundamental exatic flaw of tweeted the fundamental exatic flaw of the woke mind virus is that the weaker the woke mind virus is that the weaker the woke mind virus is that the weaker party is always right in parenthesis party is always right in parenthesis party is always right in parenthesis even if even if even if they want you to die and you responded they want you to die and you responded they want you to die and you responded at length but the beginning is the at length but the beginning is the at length but the beginning is the fundamental ecomatic flaw of the fundamental ecomatic flaw of the fundamental ecomatic flaw of the anti-woke mind is that it allows groups anti-woke mind is that it allows groups anti-woke mind is that it allows groups with historical power to play the victim with historical power to play the victim with historical power to play the victim by taking anecdotal examples and by taking anecdotal examples and by taking anecdotal examples and packaging them into conjured packaging them into conjured packaging them into conjured conspiratorial ideology that threatens conspiratorial ideology that threatens conspiratorial ideology that threatens to upend the power structures they have to upend the power structures they have to upend the power structures they have been depending been depending been depending on so uh says it all on so uh says it all on so uh says it all right well there's a mention there right well there's a mention there right well there's a mention there so yes but both can be abused right both so yes but both can be abused right both so yes but both can be abused right both positions of power can be abused there's positions of power can be abused there's positions of power can be abused there's power in Dei and there's shitty people power in Dei and there's shitty people power in Dei and there's shitty people that can crave power and hold on to that can crave power and hold on to that can crave power and hold on to power and sacrifice their ideals okay power and sacrifice their ideals okay power and sacrifice their ideals okay put aside universities okay damn it yeah put aside universities okay damn it yeah put aside universities okay damn it yeah I mean I because I'm not going to argue I mean I because I'm not going to argue I mean I because I'm not going to argue that universities Implement Dei well that universities Implement Dei well that universities Implement Dei well right right right and I'm not going to tell you that um and I'm not going to tell you that um and I'm not going to tell you that um you know they need to be spending 20 you know they need to be spending 20 you know they need to be spending 20 some million dollars a year on Dei some million dollars a year on Dei some million dollars a year on Dei positions to me that's insane um do I

positions to me that's insane um do I positions to me that's insane um do I look at the Harvard and North Carolina look at the Harvard and North Carolina look at the Harvard and North Carolina decision and say it was a great decision decision and say it was a great decision decision and say it was a great decision no because you know I think having a no because you know I think having a no because you know I think having a diverse student body helps make for um diverse student body helps make for um diverse student body helps make for um kids who are better prepared for the kids who are better prepared for the kids who are better prepared for the real world but I'm not running a real world but I'm not running a real world but I'm not running a university so it's not my choice maybe university so it's not my choice maybe university so it's not my choice maybe at some point in the future I will but at some point in the future I will but at some point in the future I will but not now um and in terms not now um and in terms not now um and in terms of the corporate side of of the corporate side of of the corporate side of it who's telling anybody what to it who's telling anybody what to it who's telling anybody what to do well maybe you can give me some help do well maybe you can give me some help do well maybe you can give me some help sure I'm here to help you Le there's an sure I'm here to help you Le there's an sure I'm here to help you Le there's an example in the AI world of example in the AI world of example in the AI world of uh a system called uh a system called uh a system called Gemini everybody was black or whatever Gemini everybody was black or whatever Gemini everybody was black or whatever people the color George Washington black people the color George Washington black people the color George Washington black Nazis were black so why why is it when Nazis were black so why why is it when Nazis were black so why why is it when that came out it was a big uproar but that came out it was a big uproar but that came out it was a big uproar but when somebody so who oh who was it one when somebody so who oh who was it one when somebody so who oh who was it one of the people who were trying to fuck of the people who were trying to fuck of the people who were trying to fuck with me um I forget which one um there's with me um I forget which one um there's with me um I forget which one um there's so many yeah but um he pointed out to um so many yeah but um he pointed out to um so many yeah but um he pointed out to um Elon that grock elon's AI was woke when Elon that grock elon's AI was woke when Elon that grock elon's AI was woke when it answered certain questions and other it answered certain questions and other it answered certain questions and other people have pointed out other things to people have pointed out other things to people have pointed out other things to Elon about gr Gro gr whatever they Elon about gr Gro gr whatever they Elon about gr Gro gr whatever they however it's pronounced um that was however it's pronounced um that was however it's pronounced um that was leaning left or woke right and elon's leaning left or woke right and elon's leaning left or woke right and elon's response was oh it'll change it's a response was oh it'll change it's a response was oh it'll change it's a mistake we're fixing it when it happens

mistake we're fixing it when it happens mistake we're fixing it when it happens to Gemini in Google it's the end of the to Gemini in Google it's the end of the to Gemini in Google it's the end of the world look how woke they are and it's world look how woke they are and it's world look how woke they are and it's reflection of all their culture now reflection of all their culture now reflection of all their culture now Google comes out and says it's a mistake Google comes out and says it's a mistake Google comes out and says it's a mistake and then they dock the guy um who was and then they dock the guy um who was and then they dock the guy um who was the product manager or whatever of AI of the product manager or whatever of AI of the product manager or whatever of AI of that product um who and then they go that product um who and then they go that product um who and then they go back and look at his old tweets right back and look at his old tweets right back and look at his old tweets right and show that he is very left leaning and show that he is very left leaning and show that he is very left leaning and very you know Dei supportive and and very you know Dei supportive and and very you know Dei supportive and that's the end of the world it's not the that's the end of the world it's not the that's the end of the world it's not the end of the world but uh Google's so end of the world but uh Google's so end of the world but uh Google's so much uh dependent on trust that trust a much uh dependent on trust that trust a much uh dependent on trust that trust a Google search has as objective as Google search has as objective as Google search has as objective as possible um channel into the world of possible um channel into the world of possible um channel into the world of information and so that brand is really information and so that brand is really information and so that brand is really important for yeah see you're you're important for yeah see you're you're important for yeah see you're you're over you're giving them too much power over you're giving them too much power over you're giving them too much power um and maybe I'm I'm not recognizing the um and maybe I'm I'm not recognizing the um and maybe I'm I'm not recognizing the power right so I'll tell you a personal power right so I'll tell you a personal power right so I'll tell you a personal experience um up experience um up experience um up until a month ago maybe if you put in until a month ago maybe if you put in until a month ago maybe if you put in keto gummies Shark Tank keto keto gummies Shark Tank keto keto gummies Shark Tank keto gummies into Google it would show up gummies into Google it would show up gummies into Google it would show up with scammy ads scam ad after scam and I with scammy ads scam ad after scam and I with scammy ads scam ad after scam and I get emails um up until a month ago from get emails um up until a month ago from get emails um up until a month ago from elderly people asking me why the gummies elderly people asking me why the gummies elderly people asking me why the gummies weren't working and why the companies weren't working and why the companies weren't working and why the companies were charging um all this money on a were charging um all this money on a were charging um all this money on a month-by-month basis when they tried to month-by-month basis when they tried to month-by-month basis when they tried to cancel and they said it was the number cancel and they said it was the number cancel and they said it was the number one deal on Shark Tank of all time right one deal on Shark Tank of all time right one deal on Shark Tank of all time right and all shark right it was a mistake

and all shark right it was a mistake and all shark right it was a mistake well there's fraud there's mistakes but well there's fraud there's mistakes but well there's fraud there's mistakes but the mistakes no but why didn't Google the mistakes no but why didn't Google the mistakes no but why didn't Google fix it right distance didn't happen once fix it right distance didn't happen once fix it right distance didn't happen once over one week over two weeks right and over one week over two weeks right and over one week over two weeks right and because it was hard to fix yeah as it because it was hard to fix yeah as it because it was hard to fix yeah as it turns out I was working with them to try turns out I was working with them to try turns out I was working with them to try to find a fix and we would both look the to find a fix and we would both look the to find a fix and we would both look the same page and if you were inside of same page and if you were inside of same page and if you were inside of Google within the google.com domain it Google within the google.com domain it Google within the google.com domain it would show one page if you were outside would show one page if you were outside would show one page if you were outside of Google it would show another and it of Google it would show another and it of Google it would show another and it took us looking at it at the same time took us looking at it at the same time took us looking at it at the same time for anybody to realize it meaning that for anybody to realize it meaning that for anybody to realize it meaning that there's a lot of Technology problems there's a lot of Technology problems there's a lot of Technology problems that are hard to fix they're super that are hard to fix they're super that are hard to fix they're super complex and we could talk about it complex and we could talk about it complex and we could talk about it forever with with social media the forever with with social media the forever with with social media the criticism towards Google towards other criticism towards Google towards other criticism towards Google towards other companies when they're based in ccon companies when they're based in ccon companies when they're based in ccon Valley there could be an ideological Valley there could be an ideological Valley there could be an ideological drift into um a ideological bubble out drift into um a ideological bubble out drift into um a ideological bubble out of which the technology is created and of which the technology is created and of which the technology is created and they could be blind to the obvious bias they could be blind to the obvious bias they could be blind to the obvious bias that's that's that's that's billions of customers who are not that's billions of customers who are not that's billions of customers who are not going to so what you're saying is the going to so what you're saying is the going to so what you're saying is the free market stops with artificial free market stops with artificial free market stops with artificial intelligence that people don't pay intelligence that people don't pay intelligence that people don't pay attention and respond that Google attention and respond that Google attention and respond that Google doesn't listen to the responses that doesn't listen to the responses that doesn't listen to the responses that people inside of Google will ignore people inside of Google will ignore people inside of Google will ignore their own best financial interest and their own best financial interest and their own best financial interest and even their own best personal interest even their own best personal interest even their own best personal interest because they know they're going to get because they know they're going to get because they know they're going to get docks now on on by Elon and others and docks now on on by Elon and others and docks now on on by Elon and others and so so I just don't see that and and so so I just don't see that and and so so I just don't see that and and elon's not allowed to make those same elon's not allowed to make those same elon's not allowed to make those same mistakes but is allowed to make those mistakes but is allowed to make those mistakes but is allowed to make those mistakes but Google isn't oh no Elon is mistakes but Google isn't oh no Elon is mistakes but Google isn't oh no Elon is 100% should be criticized for for the 100% should be criticized for for the 100% should be criticized for for the Ridiculousness of over statements that

Ridiculousness of over statements that Ridiculousness of over statements that he makes about various products he's he makes about various products he's he makes about various products he's having a bit of fun like you are also uh having a bit of fun like you are also uh having a bit of fun like you are also uh uh but and I also believe in the free uh but and I also believe in the free uh but and I also believe in the free market but it's not it's not always market but it's not it's not always market but it's not it's not always efficient you know there's like a delay efficient you know there's like a delay efficient you know there's like a delay just takes time yeah it's fine so which just takes time yeah it's fine so which just takes time yeah it's fine so which is why Elon is important we're calling is why Elon is important we're calling is why Elon is important we're calling out I think overstating the criticism of out I think overstating the criticism of out I think overstating the criticism of Gemini but Elon and others are just Gemini but Elon and others are just Gemini but Elon and others are just Gemini wasn't even a fully available um Gemini wasn't even a fully available um Gemini wasn't even a fully available um public product yet it's still a bias public product yet it's still a bias public product yet it's still a bias that resonates with people that's the that resonates with people that's the that resonates with people that's the way neural networks work though right way neural networks work though right way neural networks work though right that's why there'll be millions of that's why there'll be millions of that's why there'll be millions of models because weights and models because weights and models because weights and biases putting together you know a biases putting together you know a biases putting together you know a neural network but well no so like the neural network but well no so like the neural network but well no so like the the the black George Washington is an is the the black George Washington is an is the the black George Washington is an is a correction on top of the foundation a correction on top of the foundation a correction on top of the foundation model to keep it quote unquote sort of model to keep it quote unquote sort of model to keep it quote unquote sort of safe one of the big criticisms of all safe one of the big criticisms of all safe one of the big criticisms of all the models frankly probably even grock a the models frankly probably even grock a the models frankly probably even grock a little bit less so is they're they're little bit less so is they're they're little bit less so is they're they're like trying to be really conservative in like trying to be really conservative in like trying to be really conservative in this in the sense of trying to be this in the sense of trying to be this in the sense of trying to be careful not to say crazy shit of course careful not to say crazy shit of course careful not to say crazy shit of course because because we don't know how the because because we don't know how the because because we don't know how the thing it's brand new and we know what thing it's brand new and we know what thing it's brand new and we know what happens right and they do it on the happens right and they do it on the happens right and they do it on the front end with prompts and they try to front end with prompts and they try to front end with prompts and they try to do it on the back end with the neural do it on the back end with the neural do it on the back end with the neural networks that are underneath them right networks that are underneath them right networks that are underneath them right and it doesn't always work and that's and it doesn't always work and that's and it doesn't always work and that's why there's going to be millions of why there's going to be millions of why there's going to be millions of models rather than just you know four models rather than just you know four models rather than just you know four foundational models that every or five foundational models that every or five foundational models that every or five that everybody uses well I guess the that everybody uses well I guess the that everybody uses well I guess the main criticism is you want to have some main criticism is you want to have some main criticism is you want to have some transparency of all the teams that are transparency of all the teams that are transparency of all the teams that are involved and that this kind of to the

involved and that this kind of to the involved and that this kind of to the degree there's a left leaning ideology degree there's a left leaning ideology degree there's a left leaning ideology within the companies it doesn't affect within the companies it doesn't affect within the companies it doesn't affect the product but that's the beauty of the the product but that's the beauty of the the product but that's the beauty of the free market yeah that's where the market free market yeah that's where the market free market yeah that's where the market corrects it right and not only from the corrects it right and not only from the corrects it right and not only from the outside because everybody you know was outside because everybody you know was outside because everybody you know was going to test it like when YouTube first going to test it like when YouTube first going to test it like when YouTube first came out or not first came out when came out or not first came out when came out or not first came out when after Google bought them you used to be after Google bought them you used to be after Google bought them you used to be able there used to be um different able there used to be um different able there used to be um different commands you could give it right there commands you could give it right there commands you could give it right there were line um prompt commands that you were line um prompt commands that you were line um prompt commands that you could give it and you could find all the could give it and you could find all the could give it and you could find all the nasty porn that got loaded before the nasty porn that got loaded before the nasty porn that got loaded before the they they kicked it off right right and they they kicked it off right right and they they kicked it off right right and it was just the nastiest shit ever and it was just the nastiest shit ever and it was just the nastiest shit ever and even now to this day if there's some even now to this day if there's some even now to this day if there's some horrific tragic event somebody's loading horrific tragic event somebody's loading horrific tragic event somebody's loading it up right now I know that's not Direct it up right now I know that's not Direct it up right now I know that's not Direct to your point of internal influence to to your point of internal influence to to your point of internal influence to the output right but people on the the output right but people on the the output right but people on the outside are going to check for that now outside are going to check for that now outside are going to check for that now right it's almost like the new Bug right it's almost like the new Bug right it's almost like the new Bug Contest right to try to find bugs and Contest right to try to find bugs and Contest right to try to find bugs and software and then on the inside if it's software and then on the inside if it's software and then on the inside if it's all left leaning and all you have is all left leaning and all you have is all left leaning and all you have is left leaning employees because you know left leaning employees because you know left leaning employees because you know most conservatives won't want to work most conservatives won't want to work most conservatives won't want to work there then again that's self-correcting there then again that's self-correcting there then again that's self-correcting as well that's the hope but it can as well that's the hope but it can as well that's the hope but it can self-correct in different kinds of ways self-correct in different kinds of ways self-correct in different kinds of ways you can have a different company that you can have a different company that you can have a different company that competes and becomes more conservative I competes and becomes more conservative I competes and becomes more conservative I mean My worry is that that it's kind of mean My worry is that that it's kind of mean My worry is that that it's kind of becomes like two different worlds where becomes like two different worlds where becomes like two different worlds where there's like it already is the no come there's like it already is the no come there's like it already is the no come on don't give up oh I'm not giving up on don't give up oh I'm not giving up on don't give up oh I'm not giving up don't give so it where does this go is don't give so it where does this go is don't give so it where does this go is the question yeah right what what the question yeah right what what the question yeah right what what happens next and I mean going back I happens next and I mean going back I happens next and I mean going back I mean I've been in so many PC revolutions

mean I've been in so many PC revolutions mean I've been in so many PC revolutions right or Evolutions um where porn was right or Evolutions um where porn was right or Evolutions um where porn was the big issue right now we don't even the big issue right now we don't even the big issue right now we don't even talk about porn being an issue even talk about porn being an issue even talk about porn being an issue even though you know if every every post on though you know if every every post on though you know if every every post on Twitter now has know Lincoln Twitter now has know Lincoln Twitter now has know Lincoln bio for for a porn post right we don't bio for for a porn post right we don't bio for for a porn post right we don't even think that's that's a negative even think that's that's a negative even think that's that's a negative anymore that's just a an accepted thing anymore that's just a an accepted thing anymore that's just a an accepted thing and now it's it's become very um War and now it's it's become very um War and now it's it's become very um War your politics on on Twitter but again as your politics on on Twitter but again as your politics on on Twitter but again as you extend that and and Things Grow you you extend that and and Things Grow you you extend that and and Things Grow you as AI models become more efficient and as AI models become more efficient and as AI models become more efficient and trainable on less for a lot less money trainable on less for a lot less money trainable on less for a lot less money or even locally on a PC or a phone we're or even locally on a PC or a phone we're or even locally on a PC or a phone we're all going to have our own models and all going to have our own models and all going to have our own models and there's going to be millions and there's going to be millions and there's going to be millions and millions and millions of models and not millions and millions of models and not millions and millions of models and not just foundational models now maybe op just foundational models now maybe op just foundational models now maybe op maybe they're built some on open source maybe they're built some on open source maybe they're built some on open source maybe you know um it'll be copy pasta maybe you know um it'll be copy pasta maybe you know um it'll be copy pasta where you can just cut and paste and and where you can just cut and paste and and where you can just cut and paste and and create your own model and train it create your own model and train it create your own model and train it yourself maybe it'll be mix mixure of yourself maybe it'll be mix mixure of yourself maybe it'll be mix mixure of experts where you know maybe it'll be a experts where you know maybe it'll be a experts where you know maybe it'll be a metap front end like we're working on a metap front end like we're working on a metap front end like we're working on a project where we take 30 different AI project where we take 30 different AI project where we take 30 different AI models and there's just a meta search models and there's just a meta search models and there's just a meta search engine where it searches all of them and engine where it searches all of them and engine where it searches all of them and you can compare all the outputs and see you can compare all the outputs and see you can compare all the outputs and see what you think is is the best kind of what you think is is the best kind of what you think is is the best kind of like a search engine right because you like a search engine right because you like a search engine right because you might get is Dei good right you know is might get is Dei good right you know is might get is Dei good right you know is the covid vaccine good right you're the covid vaccine good right you're the covid vaccine good right you're going to get a variety of of of um going to get a variety of of of um going to get a variety of of of um outputs and you have to make that outputs and you have to make that outputs and you have to make that decision yourself that's what I think is decision yourself that's what I think is decision yourself that's what I think is going to happen with AI as well because going to happen with AI as well because going to happen with AI as well because I think Brands there's no way the Mayo

I think Brands there's no way the Mayo I think Brands there's no way the Mayo Clinic and the Harvard Medical School Clinic and the Harvard Medical School Clinic and the Harvard Medical School are just going to contribute all their are just going to contribute all their are just going to contribute all their IP IP IP to chat GPT or gemini or whatever to chat GPT or gemini or whatever to chat GPT or gemini or whatever they're going to it's going to have to they're going to it's going to have to they're going to it's going to have to be licensed or they're going to do their be licensed or they're going to do their be licensed or they're going to do their own yeah I mean that's a very hopeful own yeah I mean that's a very hopeful own yeah I mean that's a very hopeful message but that said you know uh human message but that said you know uh human message but that said you know uh human history doesn't always autocorrect history doesn't always autocorrect history doesn't always autocorrect really quickly self-correct really really quickly self-correct really really quickly self-correct really quickly sometimes you get into this very quickly sometimes you get into this very quickly sometimes you get into this very painful things you have you have Stalin painful things you have you have Stalin painful things you have you have Stalin you have Hitler you can get to places you have Hitler you can get to places you have Hitler you can get to places very quickly where the ideological thing very quickly where the ideological thing very quickly where the ideological thing just Builds on itself and like you but just Builds on itself and like you but just Builds on itself and like you but Twitter is not real world you know Twitter is not real world you know Twitter is not real world you know there's there's 20 is not real world there's there's 20 is not real world there's there's 20 is not real world that's true yes but you could still have that's true yes but you could still have that's true yes but you could still have a nation captured by an ideology I think a nation captured by an ideology I think a nation captured by an ideology I think America has been really good at having America has been really good at having America has been really good at having these two blue and red always at at these two blue and red always at at these two blue and red always at at tension with each other dividing the tension with each other dividing the tension with each other dividing the populace and in the process of doing populace and in the process of doing populace and in the process of doing that figuring stuff out like almost like that figuring stuff out like almost like that figuring stuff out like almost like uh Playing devil's advocate but like in uh Playing devil's advocate but like in uh Playing devil's advocate but like in real life you know and that's that's real life you know and that's that's real life you know and that's that's fair and that's right you know as fair and that's right you know as fair and that's right you know as opposed to Prova telling you everything opposed to Prova telling you everything opposed to Prova telling you everything you want to know right and and everybody you want to know right and and everybody you want to know right and and everybody believing because there's control of believing because there's control of believing because there's control of everything right and so going back to everything right and so going back to everything right and so going back to what you said earlier people in Russia what you said earlier people in Russia what you said earlier people in Russia don't think that you know invading don't think that you know invading don't think that you know invading Ukraine it's it's you know a lot of them Ukraine it's it's you know a lot of them Ukraine it's it's you know a lot of them see it as a positive right um I'm sure see it as a positive right um I'm sure see it as a positive right um I'm sure you have relatives and friends who think you have relatives and friends who think you have relatives and friends who think you know it's the best thing that ever you know it's the best thing that ever you know it's the best thing that ever happened right because they believe in happened right because they believe in happened right because they believe in in Putin they're densifying Ukraine

in Putin they're densifying Ukraine in Putin they're densifying Ukraine they're removing the Nazis ukra right they're removing the Nazis ukra right they're removing the Nazis ukra right because that's exactly what Putin said because that's exactly what Putin said because that's exactly what Putin said and you know we don't and you know we don't and you know we don't have one uniform um media Outlet that's have one uniform um media Outlet that's have one uniform um media Outlet that's the difference even though people like the difference even though people like the difference even though people like to talk about mainstream media as being to talk about mainstream media as being to talk about mainstream media as being the source of a lot of the friction the source of a lot of the friction the source of a lot of the friction there is no such thing as mainstream there is no such thing as mainstream there is no such thing as mainstream media anymore you know Fox is the media anymore you know Fox is the media anymore you know Fox is the biggest um Cable News Channel with the biggest um Cable News Channel with the biggest um Cable News Channel with the biggest audience and they call everybody biggest audience and they call everybody biggest audience and they call everybody else mainstream media you know it's else mainstream media you know it's else mainstream media you know it's insane the things that we accept from insane the things that we accept from insane the things that we accept from our sources of information to me that's our sources of information to me that's our sources of information to me that's the bigger problem the bigger problem is the bigger problem the bigger problem is the bigger problem the bigger problem is trying to figure out what is free speech trying to figure out what is free speech trying to figure out what is free speech and what is the line of Tolerance for and what is the line of Tolerance for and what is the line of Tolerance for free speech and at what point does free speech and at what point does free speech and at what point does hateful Free Speech crowd out other hateful Free Speech crowd out other hateful Free Speech crowd out other other people right Putin's the master of other people right Putin's the master of other people right Putin's the master of that he you're going to jail or you're that he you're going to jail or you're that he you're going to jail or you're going to be dead if you disagree right going to be dead if you disagree right going to be dead if you disagree right now God help us if we ever get to that now God help us if we ever get to that now God help us if we ever get to that point here but the person who controls point here but the person who controls point here but the person who controls the algorithm controls the world right the algorithm controls the world right the algorithm controls the world right and if you are committed to one specific and if you are committed to one specific and if you are committed to one specific platform as your singular source of platform as your singular source of platform as your singular source of information or Affiliated platforms then information or Affiliated platforms then information or Affiliated platforms then whoever control

MIT were on right leaning media several MIT were on right leaning media several things actually let's even go there things actually let's even go there things actually let's even go there you've gotten a bit of a beef with uh you've gotten a bit of a beef with uh you've gotten a bit of a beef with uh again fun with Jordan Peterson about again fun with Jordan Peterson about again fun with Jordan Peterson about this that's the guy whose name I this that's the guy whose name I this that's the guy whose name I couldn't think of yeah so the topic couldn't think of yeah so the topic couldn't think of yeah so the topic there was the gender transition and there was the gender transition and there was the gender transition and Dylan moaney can you can you explain the Dylan moaney can you can you explain the Dylan moaney can you can you explain the nature of the beef I mean the it's an nature of the beef I mean the it's an nature of the beef I mean the it's an interesting claim you're making that interesting claim you're making that interesting claim you're making that most most of the people who are concern most most of the people who are concern most most of the people who are concern concerned about this are conservatives concerned about this are conservatives concerned about this are conservatives yeah just the point is that if you yeah just the point is that if you yeah just the point is that if you looked at Impressions like when you run looked at Impressions like when you run looked at Impressions like when you run an ad you're curious about Impressions an ad you're curious about Impressions an ad you're curious about Impressions and who sees them right um but if you and who sees them right um but if you and who sees them right um but if you look at the Impressions related to Dylan look at the Impressions related to Dylan look at the Impressions related to Dylan McDermot um I would like I just said I'd McDermot um I would like I just said I'd McDermot um I would like I just said I'd bet 90% or more were in conservative bet 90% or more were in conservative bet 90% or more were in conservative media and you know I don't know how many media and you know I don't know how many media and you know I don't know how many followers she had 250,000 followers or followers she had 250,000 followers or followers she had 250,000 followers or whatever when the Bud Light ad came out whatever when the Bud Light ad came out whatever when the Bud Light ad came out and if it weren't for Kid Rock shooting and if it weren't for Kid Rock shooting and if it weren't for Kid Rock shooting you know guns um shooting at Dylan you know guns um shooting at Dylan you know guns um shooting at Dylan mcdermit Bud Light cans she'd be long mcdermit Bud Light cans she'd be long mcdermit Bud Light cans she'd be long forgotten yeah but most of the people forgotten yeah but most of the people forgotten yeah but most of the people people that care about censorship are people that care about censorship are people that care about censorship are going to be free speech Advocates so going to be free speech Advocates so going to be free speech Advocates so like most people that care about Putin like most people that care about Putin like most people that care about Putin suppressing speech or anybody else suppressing speech or anybody else suppressing speech or anybody else suppressing speech are going to be like suppressing speech are going to be like suppressing speech are going to be like libertarian so like it there's there's libertarian so like it there's there's libertarian so like it there's there's probably an explanation of that you the probably an explanation of that you the probably an explanation of that you the the criticism that Jordan Peterson could the criticism that Jordan Peterson could the criticism that Jordan Peterson could provide I guess he said that uh Dylan provide I guess he said that uh Dylan provide I guess he said that uh Dylan malany malany malany popularized the kind of Mutilation right popularized the kind of Mutilation right popularized the kind of Mutilation right in his view um they can affect there a in his view um they can affect there a in his view um they can affect there a very serious lifechanging process that a very serious lifechanging process that a very serious lifechanging process that a person goes through and when that's

person goes through and when that's person goes through and when that's applied to a child it can do a lot of applied to a child it can do a lot of applied to a child it can do a lot of harm to a person if but my point still harm to a person if but my point still harm to a person if but my point still holds I don't know how many kids were holds I don't know how many kids were holds I don't know how many kids were following and you can look at the following and you can look at the following and you can look at the followers list it's not like it's hidden followers list it's not like it's hidden followers list it's not like it's hidden right back then if they had 250,000 right back then if they had 250,000 right back then if they had 250,000 followers and now we're on Tik Tok um followers and now we're on Tik Tok um followers and now we're on Tik Tok um you know where he might get 50 some you know where he might get 50 some you know where he might get 50 some thousand views or likes right I don't thousand views or likes right I don't thousand views or likes right I don't know how many views but likes I don't know how many views but likes I don't know how many views but likes I don't I've never seen any evidence that Dylan I've never seen any evidence that Dylan I've never seen any evidence that Dylan mcder mcder mcder influenc people to transition their influenc people to transition their influenc people to transition their gender as he transitioned to her it was gender as he transitioned to her it was gender as he transitioned to her it was documented on Tik Tok over the course of documented on Tik Tok over the course of documented on Tik Tok over the course of a year and again when you go back and a year and again when you go back and a year and again when you go back and look at the views on those Tik toks it look at the views on those Tik toks it look at the views on those Tik toks it was you know it wasn't like was you know it wasn't like was you know it wasn't like enormous yeah but the trends start right enormous yeah but the trends start right enormous yeah but the trends start right it could be uh what worries people is it could be uh what worries people is it could be uh what worries people is for young kids there to be a for young kids there to be a for young kids there to be a trend of especially when you feel like trend of especially when you feel like trend of especially when you feel like an outsider you feel not yourself less an outsider you feel not yourself less an outsider you feel not yourself less than yourself all this kind of stuff than yourself all this kind of stuff than yourself all this kind of stuff that kids feel like that if it's because that kids feel like that if it's because that kids feel like that if it's because popular enough as is a trend you would popular enough as is a trend you would popular enough as is a trend you would gender gender gender transition uh without meaning to do that transition uh without meaning to do that transition uh without meaning to do that is just part of a trend that's the worry is just part of a trend that's the worry is just part of a trend that's the worry they that is a big stretch right to they that is a big stretch right to they that is a big stretch right to think that all the things that have to think that all the things that have to think that all the things that have to happen before you transition gender happen before you transition gender happen before you transition gender right and I'm not saying kids um right and I'm not saying kids um right and I'm not saying kids um might identifi you know find it cool or might identifi you know find it cool or might identifi you know find it cool or you know in the moment um expedient if

you know in the moment um expedient if you know in the moment um expedient if you will um to dress up as the other you will um to dress up as the other you will um to dress up as the other gender great who cares right but to go gender great who cares right but to go gender great who cares right but to go through the actual physical transition through the actual physical transition through the actual physical transition like I don't remember what the numbers like I don't remember what the numbers like I don't remember what the numbers were that I read but I do remember that were that I read but I do remember that were that I read but I do remember that the latest numbers that came out in the latest numbers that came out in the latest numbers that came out in terms of transitioning were from jamama terms of transitioning were from jamama terms of transitioning were from jamama which is a medical association that said which is a medical association that said which is a medical association that said um 20 from 2020 um 20 from 2020 um 20 from 2020 one to 2022 the numbers went down but one to 2022 the numbers went down but one to 2022 the numbers went down but the bigger point is there are no numbers the bigger point is there are no numbers the bigger point is there are no numbers for 2023 when post Dylan mcder so for 2023 when post Dylan mcder so for 2023 when post Dylan mcder so there's no way to know if the assertion there's no way to know if the assertion there's no way to know if the assertion is true even marginally true now you can is true even marginally true now you can is true even marginally true now you can you can easily suggest it right but you you can easily suggest it right but you you can easily suggest it right but you can say say that about any social media can say say that about any social media can say say that about any social media influencer right you know people are influencer right you know people are influencer right you know people are kids are dying because you know I mean kids are dying because you know I mean kids are dying because you know I mean it's just like when people accuse Trump it's just like when people accuse Trump it's just like when people accuse Trump of potentially influencing people to you of potentially influencing people to you of potentially influencing people to you know inject bleach into their know inject bleach into their know inject bleach into their veins you can't you know that's a big veins you can't you know that's a big veins you can't you know that's a big old leap to say that because the you old leap to say that because the you old leap to say that because the you know Trump says it that people are going know Trump says it that people are going know Trump says it that people are going to start invest you know injecting and to start invest you know injecting and to start invest you know injecting and then they find somebody who actually did then they find somebody who actually did then they find somebody who actually did and it's like oh it must be true you and it's like oh it must be true you and it's like oh it must be true you know this is a trend now I just I'm just know this is a trend now I just I'm just know this is a trend now I just I'm just not buying it that there aren't enough not buying it that there aren't enough not buying it that there aren't enough roadblocks in the way now I'm not saying roadblocks in the way now I'm not saying roadblocks in the way now I'm not saying it never happens right and I and for me it never happens right and I and for me it never happens right and I and for me to me you should have have to wait until to me you should have have to wait until to me you should have have to wait until you're 18 to actually have any surgery you're 18 to actually have any surgery you're 18 to actually have any surgery to transition um and if your parents to transition um and if your parents to transition um and if your parents approve it earlier then you can have a

approve it earlier then you can have a approve it earlier then you can have a conversation with your doctor but you're conversation with your doctor but you're conversation with your doctor but you're suggesting that everybody in that suggesting that everybody in that suggesting that everybody in that process to go to transition a minor is process to go to transition a minor is process to go to transition a minor is corrupt that the doctor the sociologist corrupt that the doctor the sociologist corrupt that the doctor the sociologist the psychologist all the people involved the psychologist all the people involved the psychologist all the people involved the hospital where the surgery is the hospital where the surgery is the hospital where the surgery is happening the insurance company that's happening the insurance company that's happening the insurance company that's paying for it they all have been paying for it they all have been paying for it they all have been corrupted by this trend I just don't see corrupted by this trend I just don't see corrupted by this trend I just don't see that well not corrupted but you know that well not corrupted but you know that well not corrupted but you know people uh it's back to the Dei thing people uh it's back to the Dei thing people uh it's back to the Dei thing there could be pressure and we are there could be pressure and we are there could be pressure and we are pressure to operate so think about all pressure to operate so think about all pressure to operate so think about all the people who have to be complicit yeah the people who have to be complicit yeah the people who have to be complicit yeah to do an operation it's not complicit to do an operation it's not complicit to do an operation it's not complicit like evil complicit it's it is evil like evil complicit it's it is evil like evil complicit it's it is evil complicit right because somebody Doc in complicit right because somebody Doc in complicit right because somebody Doc in hospitals right now they won't perform hospitals right now they won't perform hospitals right now they won't perform abortions because of state law in abortions because of state law in abortions because of state law in Alabama they stopped IVF treatment Alabama they stopped IVF treatment Alabama they stopped IVF treatment immediately after that um ruling by that immediately after that um ruling by that immediately after that um ruling by that judge right the Q andon judge does they judge right the Q andon judge does they judge right the Q andon judge does they think that they're not going to pay think that they're not going to pay think that they're not going to pay attention to the possible consequences attention to the possible consequences attention to the possible consequences of being the hospital that does of being the hospital that does of being the hospital that does transgender that that uh gives doctors transgender that that uh gives doctors transgender that that uh gives doctors operating rights there and not be um operating rights there and not be um operating rights there and not be um aware of the risk associated with it and aware of the risk associated with it and aware of the risk associated with it and double check to me that's just insane double check to me that's just insane double check to me that's just insane they're risking their entire business they're risking their entire business they're risking their entire business and livelihood and personal and livelihood and personal and livelihood and personal relationships for not checking that this relationships for not checking that this relationships for not checking that this 14-year-old you know Boy Who Wants to be 14-year-old you know Boy Who Wants to be 14-year-old you know Boy Who Wants to be a girl or vice Versa is there waiting a girl or vice Versa is there waiting a girl or vice Versa is there waiting for for surgery that I just don't see for for surgery that I just don't see for for surgery that I just don't see that in America yes but if we look at that in America yes but if we look at that in America yes but if we look at humans in

humans in humans in general and Jordan Peterson I think general and Jordan Peterson I think general and Jordan Peterson I think unjustly incorrectly brought up oswit unjustly incorrectly brought up oswit unjustly incorrectly brought up oswit yeah that was that was ridiculous but if yeah that was that was ridiculous but if yeah that was that was ridiculous but if we we we look to me World War II is a very look to me World War II is a very look to me World War II is a very interesting time it does reveal a lot interesting time it does reveal a lot interesting time it does reveal a lot about human nature and that humans are about human nature and that humans are about human nature and that humans are able to commit able to commit able to commit atrocities without really speaking up atrocities without really speaking up atrocities without really speaking up the point I want to make is that when the point I want to make is that when the point I want to make is that when you're in this situation where everybody you're in this situation where everybody you're in this situation where everybody is around around you is committing an is around around you is committing an is around around you is committing an atrocity you can be sort of the the good atrocity you can be sort of the the good atrocity you can be sort of the the good German and and yeah but I mean human German and and yeah but I mean human German and and yeah but I mean human nature is such that you can but that nature is such that you can but that nature is such that you can but that that is in a time of that is in a time of that is in a time of War yeah but it's still human nature War yeah but it's still human nature War yeah but it's still human nature it's interesting to remember that war it's interesting to remember that war it's interesting to remember that war when you feel like there's nationalism when you feel like there's nationalism when you feel like there's nationalism patriotism everything that comes up patriotism everything that comes up patriotism everything that comes up Russia right you know the moms of the Russia right you know the moms of the Russia right you know the moms of the the kids sent to be you know sent to the kids sent to be you know sent to the kids sent to be you know sent to Ukraine who didn't come back in Russia Ukraine who didn't come back in Russia Ukraine who didn't come back in Russia feel certainly different than the the feel certainly different than the the feel certainly different than the the everyday Russian who's just taking you everyday Russian who's just taking you everyday Russian who's just taking you know whatever information that's know whatever information that's know whatever information that's available from a unified controlled available from a unified controlled available from a unified controlled media yeah but you know we should media yeah but you know we should media yeah but you know we should remember human nature it's interesting remember human nature it's interesting remember human nature it's interesting I'm not dismissing human nature at all I'm not dismissing human nature at all I'm not dismissing human nature at all but there's a difference I think that but there's a difference I think that but there's a difference I think that human nature self-preservation human nature self-preservation human nature self-preservation influences those decisions there's influences those decisions there's influences those decisions there's nothing about self-preservation involved nothing about self-preservation involved nothing about self-preservation involved in Dei

attention wanted to say thank you your attention wanted to say thank you your Consultants at Tesla followed up about Consultants at Tesla followed up about Consultants at Tesla followed up about using Cost Plus drugs but which we'll using Cost Plus drugs but which we'll using Cost Plus drugs but which we'll talk about to save the company money talk about to save the company money talk about to save the company money truly appreciate it and in parenthesis truly appreciate it and in parenthesis truly appreciate it and in parenthesis my limit is 300 years of Darkness very my limit is 300 years of Darkness very my limit is 300 years of Darkness very well done Mark uh what's your intuition well done Mark uh what's your intuition well done Mark uh what's your intuition if we just stick on Biden and Trump for if we just stick on Biden and Trump for if we just stick on Biden and Trump for a sec uh what's your intuition why Biden a sec uh what's your intuition why Biden a sec uh what's your intuition why Biden would make a better president Trump look would make a better president Trump look would make a better president Trump look at if at the basics right if you look at at if at the basics right if you look at at if at the basics right if you look at the people he's the people he's the people he's hired um there hasn't been any turnover hired um there hasn't been any turnover hired um there hasn't been any turnover in his cabinet at all if you look at the in his cabinet at all if you look at the in his cabinet at all if you look at the people he's hired um over the course of people he's hired um over the course of people he's hired um over the course of his career or while he was vice his career or while he was vice his career or while he was vice president in particular there's nobody president in particular there's nobody president in particular there's nobody who's turned on him and came out and who's turned on him and came out and who's turned on him and came out and written books and made public statements written books and made public statements written books and made public statements about how he bad for the country now about how he bad for the country now about how he bad for the country now compare that to Trump the people closest compare that to Trump the people closest compare that to Trump the people closest to to to him almost all of them turn unless him almost all of them turn unless him almost all of them turn unless there's a financial relationship there's a financial relationship there's a financial relationship involved and to me that says everything involved and to me that says everything involved and to me that says everything the Dynamics of the team is important to the Dynamics of the team is important to the Dynamics of the team is important to you when if you're going to be the most you when if you're going to be the most you when if you're going to be the most powerful person in the world you better powerful person in the world you better powerful person in the world you better know how to manage and Lead right and know how to manage and Lead right and know how to manage and Lead right and that that's not to say Biden hasn't made that that's not to say Biden hasn't made that that's not to say Biden hasn't made a a lot of mistakes I mean immigration a a lot of mistakes I mean immigration a a lot of mistakes I mean immigration the border is horrific mistake um and the border is horrific mistake um and the border is horrific mistake um and hopefully he he recognizes that and I hopefully he he recognizes that and I hopefully he he recognizes that and I don't like the fact that he doesn't don't like the fact that he doesn't don't like the fact that he doesn't admit his mistakes and just say okay I admit his mistakes and just say okay I admit his mistakes and just say okay I got to fix it or I made a mistake in got to fix it or I made a mistake in got to fix it or I made a mistake in Afghanistan whatever it may be right the Afghanistan whatever it may be right the Afghanistan whatever it may be right the the position of commander-in-chief and

the position of commander-in-chief and the position of commander-in-chief and um president you're going to make um president you're going to make um president you're going to make mistakes then I look at the other guy mistakes then I look at the other guy mistakes then I look at the other guy never miss a mistake and the list is never miss a mistake and the list is never miss a mistake and the list is long what do you think about the long what do you think about the long what do you think about the immigration situation a lot of immigration situation a lot of immigration situation a lot of conservatives are using conservatives are using conservatives are using that uh sort of that uh sort of that uh sort of the the the theory is that the reason the the the theory is that the reason the the the theory is that the reason it's happening is because they would be it's happening is because they would be it's happening is because they would be able to illegally vote that's insane for able to illegally vote that's insane for able to illegally vote that's insane for Biden yeah you can't be an illegal Biden yeah you can't be an illegal Biden yeah you can't be an illegal immigrant and vote and now in a lot of immigrant and vote and now in a lot of immigrant and vote and now in a lot of States because of the conservatives States because of the conservatives States because of the conservatives they've passed laws saying you have to they've passed laws saying you have to they've passed laws saying you have to show identification when I voted in show identification when I voted in show identification when I voted in Texas you had to show you know state Texas you had to show you know state Texas you had to show you know state identification they they can't vote you identification they they can't vote you identification they they can't vote you can't register as an illegal alien that can't register as an illegal alien that can't register as an illegal alien that I'm aware of to vote yeah but of course I'm aware of to vote yeah but of course I'm aware of to vote yeah but of course that story that really worries me um that story that really worries me um that story that really worries me um enables or serves as a catalyst for enables or serves as a catalyst for enables or serves as a catalyst for questioning the legitimacy of an questioning the legitimacy of an questioning the legitimacy of an election I remember going to the debate election I remember going to the debate election I remember going to the debate with Trump um in 2016 and and he was with Trump um in 2016 and and he was with Trump um in 2016 and and he was debating Clinton and one of the things debating Clinton and one of the things debating Clinton and one of the things he said was we don't even know if this he said was we don't even know if this he said was we don't even know if this election will be legitimate if I lose election will be legitimate if I lose election will be legitimate if I lose this was in 2016 before he was even this was in 2016 before he was even this was in 2016 before he was even elected and that was where he was going elected and that was where he was going elected and that was where he was going that's just what he does he's never that's just what he does he's never that's just what he does he's never admitted a mistake the guys failed a admitted a mistake the guys failed a admitted a mistake the guys failed a zillion times most people say okay I zillion times most people say okay I zillion times most people say okay I learned from him you know read I read a learned from him you know read I read a learned from him you know read I read a book about Roy Cohen and you know Roy book about Roy Cohen and you know Roy book about Roy Cohen and you know Roy Cohen was the ultimate deny deny deny Cohen was the ultimate deny deny deny Cohen was the ultimate deny deny deny and that was one of Trump's mentors and and that was one of Trump's mentors and and that was one of Trump's mentors and you can see almost everything of Roy you can see almost everything of Roy you can see almost everything of Roy Cohen ever did in the same way that

Cohen ever did in the same way that Cohen ever did in the same way that Donald Trump approaches things but given Donald Trump approaches things but given Donald Trump approaches things but given how drastic the immigration situation is how drastic the immigration situation is how drastic the immigration situation is it be that story becomes more believable it be that story becomes more believable it be that story becomes more believable yeah of course it does right but the yeah of course it does right but the yeah of course it does right but the facts are still the facts right and in facts are still the facts right and in facts are still the facts right and in red States they're going to be checking red States they're going to be checking red States they're going to be checking every ident ID they're going to be every ident ID they're going to be every ident ID they're going to be making sure it's not the case and you making sure it's not the case and you making sure it's not the case and you know you can also make the argument well know you can also make the argument well know you can also make the argument well in the blue state it doesn't matter in in the blue state it doesn't matter in in the blue state it doesn't matter in the the swing States they're still going the the swing States they're still going the the swing States they're still going to be checking because they know Trump to be checking because they know Trump to be checking because they know Trump is going to sue the shit out of him when is going to sue the shit out of him when is going to sue the shit out of him when he loses you know and so again and he loses you know and so again and he loses you know and so again and that's where you know people will take that's where you know people will take that's where you know people will take those self-preservation steps to keep those self-preservation steps to keep those self-preservation steps to keep their job and do the right thing there's their job and do the right thing there's their job and do the right thing there's still enough people who believe in this still enough people who believe in this still enough people who believe in this country and how amazing it is to do the country and how amazing it is to do the country and how amazing it is to do the right thing and a lot of the premise of right thing and a lot of the premise of right thing and a lot of the premise of what some conservative conservatives are what some conservative conservatives are what some conservative conservatives are saying and doing the underpinning of it saying and doing the underpinning of it saying and doing the underpinning of it is that their fellow citizens will not is that their fellow citizens will not is that their fellow citizens will not do anything not something anything if do anything not something anything if do anything not something anything if that serves the best interest of this that serves the best interest of this that serves the best interest of this country and to me that's just wrong you country and to me that's just wrong you country and to me that's just wrong you know that is just misleading and wrong I know that is just misleading and wrong I know that is just misleading and wrong I just worry about I don't care about just worry about I don't care about just worry about I don't care about Trump or Biden I care about democracy MH Trump or Biden I care about democracy MH Trump or Biden I care about democracy MH I just worry I I worry about the viral I just worry I I worry about the viral I just worry I I worry about the viral nature of the idea of this illegal nature of the idea of this illegal nature of the idea of this illegal immigrants but it's it's just it's very immigrants but it's it's just it's very immigrants but it's it's just it's very functional right either they get across functional right either they get across functional right either they get across there's a thousand different ways to an there's a thousand different ways to an there's a thousand different ways to an unlimited number of ways to enter the unlimited number of ways to enter the unlimited number of ways to enter the United States of America undetected United States of America undetected United States of America undetected right and the South border where it's right and the South border where it's right and the South border where it's the easiest and the worst and Biden the easiest and the worst and Biden the easiest and the worst and Biden needs to take steps to reduce that needs to take steps to reduce that needs to take steps to reduce that remember when Biden was vice president

remember when Biden was vice president remember when Biden was vice president and um Obama was President they called and um Obama was President they called and um Obama was President they called Obama the deporter in Chief he had no Obama the deporter in Chief he had no Obama the deporter in Chief he had no problem deporting people and I think if problem deporting people and I think if problem deporting people and I think if I had to guess and this is just a guess I had to guess and this is just a guess I had to guess and this is just a guess that when they looked at the initial that when they looked at the initial that when they looked at the initial statistics for immigration when Biden statistics for immigration when Biden statistics for immigration when Biden took over they thought there was room took over they thought there was room took over they thought there was room for more immigrants not because they for more immigrants not because they for more immigrants not because they would vote but you know you can make an would vote but you know you can make an would vote but you know you can make an a fiscal argument that in in a world a fiscal argument that in in a world a fiscal argument that in in a world where the birth rate is flat to where the birth rate is flat to where the birth rate is flat to declining we need immigrants right and declining we need immigrants right and declining we need immigrants right and immigrants typically don't you know immigrants typically don't you know immigrants typically don't you know don't have a higher crime rate or don't have a higher crime rate or don't have a higher crime rate or anything than you know indigenous anything than you know indigenous anything than you know indigenous American citizens indigenous isn't the American citizens indigenous isn't the American citizens indigenous isn't the right word but American right word but American right word but American citizens um and so they made a citizens um and so they made a citizens um and so they made a calculated mistake they made a decision calculated mistake they made a decision calculated mistake they made a decision that was wrong and now they have to fix that was wrong and now they have to fix that was wrong and now they have to fix it or it's going to hurt them severely it or it's going to hurt them severely it or it's going to hurt them severely but I don't bu you know like what elon's but I don't bu you know like what elon's but I don't bu you know like what elon's pushing that um the whole reason is they pushing that um the whole reason is they pushing that um the whole reason is they are voters and will become voters and we are voters and will become voters and we are voters and will become voters and we should say the obvious you're a should say the obvious you're a should say the obvious you're a descendant of immigrants yeah for sure descendant of immigrants yeah for sure descendant of immigrants yeah for sure and the immigrants is what makes this and the immigrants is what makes this and the immigrants is what makes this country great in many parts of the country great in many parts of the country great in many parts of the diversity of this nation and we should diversity of this nation and we should diversity of this nation and we should probably keep the people that are like probably keep the people that are like probably keep the people that are like already been in this country for a while already been in this country for a while already been in this country for a while and they're killing it like PhD students and they're killing it like PhD students and they're killing it like PhD students and all this it's like that's not what and all this it's like that's not what and all this it's like that's not what Donald Trump wants though he wants to Donald Trump wants though he wants to Donald Trump wants though he wants to ship them all out right there's just a ship them all out right there's just a ship them all out right there's just a whole lot of hyperbole when it comes to whole lot of hyperbole when it comes to whole lot of hyperbole when it comes to talking to all about about talking about talking to all about about talking about talking to all about about talking about all of these things we're talking about all of these things we're talking about all of these things we're talking about when there it's right versus left my

when there it's right versus left my when there it's right versus left my team versus your team My Tribe versus team versus your team My Tribe versus team versus your team My Tribe versus your tribe the only way to stand down is your tribe the only way to stand down is your tribe the only way to stand down is hyperbole the hard part and why I like hyperbole the hard part and why I like hyperbole the hard part and why I like this conversation is how do you this conversation is how do you this conversation is how do you distinguish hyperbole versus reality and distinguish hyperbole versus reality and distinguish hyperbole versus reality and I get where you're going Lex where it's I get where you're going Lex where it's I get where you're going Lex where it's like like like what the smallest spark sometimes can what the smallest spark sometimes can what the smallest spark sometimes can cause people to change and then that cause people to change and then that cause people to change and then that spark becomes bigger and then it becomes spark becomes bigger and then it becomes spark becomes bigger and then it becomes um more widespread and then all of a um more widespread and then all of a um more widespread and then all of a sudden your country has changed it's not sudden your country has changed it's not sudden your country has changed it's not what you thought it was I I get that what you thought it was I I get that what you thought it was I I get that completely right and yes you always have completely right and yes you always have completely right and yes you always have to be on top of that to make sure but a to be on top of that to make sure but a to be on top of that to make sure but a lot of that comes from lack of lot of that comes from lack of lot of that comes from lack of leadership right and lack of trust leadership right and lack of trust leadership right and lack of trust because there's nobody who's saying all because there's nobody who's saying all because there's nobody who's saying all right Republicans that's all Hyperbole right Republicans that's all Hyperbole right Republicans that's all Hyperbole and you're wrong for that Democrats you and you're wrong for that Democrats you and you're wrong for that Democrats you fucked up on immigration right you fucked up on immigration right you fucked up on immigration right you fucked up in as Afghanistan right here's fucked up in as Afghanistan right here's fucked up in as Afghanistan right here's where you made my these mistakes own it where you made my these mistakes own it where you made my these mistakes own it there's nobody who says right um we're there's nobody who says right um we're there's nobody who says right um we're not going to just bring in Republicans not going to just bring in Republicans not going to just bring in Republicans if the Republicans win and then you you if the Republicans win and then you you if the Republicans win and then you you know and there's nobody who says we're know and there's nobody who says we're know and there's nobody who says we're not going to just bring in Democrats not going to just bring in Democrats not going to just bring in Democrats we're going to bring in a mix right we're going to bring in a mix right we're going to bring in a mix right we're going to try to get balance on the we're going to try to get balance on the we're going to try to get balance on the Supreme Court there's just there's no Supreme Court there's just there's no Supreme Court there's just there's no leadership that's doing that that's the leadership that's doing that that's the leadership that's doing that that's the fundamental problem it's not about the fundamental problem it's not about the fundamental problem it's not about the ideology of woke it's not the no ideology of woke it's not the no ideology of woke it's not the no leadership yeah leadership and yeah leadership yeah leadership and yeah leadership yeah leadership and yeah there's it's it's whatever systems we've there's it's it's whatever systems we've there's it's it's whatever systems we've created it's it's really frustrating created it's it's really frustrating created it's it's really frustrating that uh if you don't like Trump it's it that uh if you don't like Trump it's it that uh if you don't like Trump it's it really is Trump derangement syndrome really is Trump derangement syndrome really is Trump derangement syndrome like he's the he's definitely Hitler if like he's the he's definitely Hitler if like he's the he's definitely Hitler if you don't like Biden he's Cena lizard

you don't like Biden he's Cena lizard you don't like Biden he's Cena lizard person right um that right everybody person right um that right everybody person right um that right everybody gets labeled right and because that gets labeled right and because that gets labeled right and because that works on social media that look if if works on social media that look if if works on social media that look if if Elon changed the Elon changed the Elon changed the algorithm yeah just by taking himself algorithm yeah just by taking himself algorithm yeah just by taking himself out of it seriously I'm not saying don't out of it seriously I'm not saying don't out of it seriously I'm not saying don't post right post all you want but he you post right post all you want but he you post right post all you want but he you know if you look at his followers um know if you look at his followers um know if you look at his followers um they're almost all right leaning they're almost all right leaning they're almost all right leaning if you look at the people he engages if you look at the people he engages if you look at the people he engages with positively they're almost all right with positively they're almost all right with positively they're almost all right leaning and if you look at the people he leaning and if you look at the people he leaning and if you look at the people he engages with negatively like me right I engages with negatively like me right I engages with negatively like me right I consider myself an an independent but it consider myself an an independent but it consider myself an an independent but it I lean left on the Dei topic right um I lean left on the Dei topic right um I lean left on the Dei topic right um that influences the algorithm and so you that influences the algorithm and so you that influences the algorithm and so you see what you see because of what he says see what you see because of what he says see what you see because of what he says yeah well I mean for sure but the the yeah well I mean for sure but the the yeah well I mean for sure but the the there could be a lot of influential there could be a lot of influential there could be a lot of influential people on on Twitter that influence the people on on Twitter that influence the people on on Twitter that influence the algrim and all that kind of stuff I I do algrim and all that kind of stuff I I do algrim and all that kind of stuff I I do feel it's not even about ideology where feel it's not even about ideology where feel it's not even about ideology where you lean it's about like the algorithm you lean it's about like the algorithm you lean it's about like the algorithm not prioritizing drama be like the the not prioritizing drama be like the the not prioritizing drama be like the the the attention grabbing thing or the the attention grabbing thing or the the attention grabbing thing or the lower lizard version of that where like lower lizard version of that where like lower lizard version of that where like people just want the drama they want out people just want the drama they want out people just want the drama they want out when I last read through all the stuff when I last read through all the stuff when I last read through all the stuff on on their algorithm right maybe it's on on their algorithm right maybe it's on on their algorithm right maybe it's changed Whoever has the biggest account changed Whoever has the biggest account changed Whoever has the biggest account and gets engagement on that account and gets engagement on that account and gets engagement on that account influences what people see the most yeah influences what people see the most yeah influences what people see the most yeah I mean that's interesting I don't know I mean that's interesting I don't know I mean that's interesting I don't know if that's to to the degree that's true if that's to to the degree that's true if that's to to the degree that's true they they they they've Prett sure it's still the case

they've Prett sure it's still the case they've Prett sure it's still the case pretty rigorous description of pretty rigorous description of pretty rigorous description of What's um of the way the aor works it's What's um of the way the aor works it's What's um of the way the aor works it's actually kind of fascinating there's actually kind of fascinating there's actually kind of fascinating there's like clustering of people based on like clustering of people based on like clustering of people based on interest right but I think they call the interest right but I think they call the interest right but I think they call the nearest neighbor right approach and I nearest neighbor right approach and I nearest neighbor right approach and I think that's what they do and so whoever think that's what they do and so whoever think that's what they do and so whoever has the biggest account has the most has the biggest account has the most has the biggest account has the most neighbors who in turn have their neighbors who in turn have their neighbors who in turn have their neighbors who in turn have their neighbors who in turn have their neighbors who in turn have their neighbors and that's how they discern neighbors and that's how they discern neighbors and that's how they discern what comes next but there's a clustering what comes next but there's a clustering what comes next but there's a clustering still so like if you don't give a shit still so like if you don't give a shit still so like if you don't give a shit about Elon you're not and you're not about Elon you're not and you're not about Elon you're not and you're not following him yeah you're not you're not following him yeah you're not you're not following him yeah you're not you're not going to have an influence he's not going to have an influence he's not going to have an influence he's not going to have influence when you get a going to have influence when you get a going to have influence when you get a break just create a burner account on break just create a burner account on break just create a burner account on Twitter and see what who they recommend Twitter and see what who they recommend Twitter and see what who they recommend to you Elon and not just Elon I mean the to you Elon and not just Elon I mean the to you Elon and not just Elon I mean the people that Elon likes and I'm saying people that Elon likes and I'm saying people that Elon likes and I'm saying that's not Elon saying add this person that's not Elon saying add this person that's not Elon saying add this person add this person and suggest this person add this person and suggest this person add this person and suggest this person this person this person I'm saying this person this person I'm saying this person this person I'm saying that's what the algorithm is yeah there that's what the algorithm is yeah there that's what the algorithm is yeah there should be transparency around that for should be transparency around that for should be transparency around that for sure there is there is that's the whole sure there is there is that's the whole sure there is there is that's the whole point right he knows his transparency point right he knows his transparency point right he knows his transparency and he knows the impact that's why when and he knows the impact that's why when and he knows the impact that's why when I say take yourself out of the algorithm I say take yourself out of the algorithm I say take yourself out of the algorithm right don't include his account that right don't include his account that right don't include his account that changes I think the output of the changes I think the output of the changes I think the output of the algorithm well when he wasn't owning algorithm well when he wasn't owning algorithm well when he wasn't owning Twitter he was one of the biggest Twitter he was one of the biggest Twitter he was one of the biggest accounts if not the biggest account accounts if not the biggest account accounts if not the biggest account already it wasn't but still like even already it wasn't but still like even already it wasn't but still like even like the Kim well the Kim Kardashian like the Kim well the Kim Kardashian like the Kim well the Kim Kardashian accounts whatever right it would I I accounts whatever right it would I I accounts whatever right it would I I don't it wasn't open source to elon's don't it wasn't open source to elon's don't it wasn't open source to elon's credit it is now so I couldn't see it to credit it is now so I couldn't see it to credit it is now so I couldn't see it to know right so I didn't get the sense one know right so I didn't get the sense one know right so I didn't get the sense one way or the other of one one element way or the other of one one element way or the other of one one element being dominant over the other but being dominant over the other but being dominant over the other but obviously conservatives felt that that obviously conservatives felt that that obviously conservatives felt that that left leaning was more dominant back then left leaning was more dominant back then left leaning was more dominant back then yeah I would love to see numbers on all yeah I would love to see numbers on all yeah I would love to see numbers on all of this yeah you me both Dei everything

of this yeah you me both Dei everything of this yeah you me both Dei everything like this uh sometimes anecdotal data like this uh sometimes anecdotal data like this uh sometimes anecdotal data really frustrates me it frustrates me really frustrates me it frustrates me really frustrates me it frustrates me primarily because of how sexy it is like primarily because of how sexy it is like primarily because of how sexy it is like people just love it's a great way to people just love it's a great way to people just love it's a great way to describe it love a story and I'm like describe it love a story and I'm like describe it love a story and I'm like God damn it this is not science this is God damn it this is not science this is God damn it this is not science this is this it's not even common sense you know this it's not even common sense you know this it's not even common sense you know well no I I I think anecdotal stories well no I I I think anecdotal stories well no I I I think anecdotal stories often have a wisdom in them like no often have a wisdom in them like no often have a wisdom in them like no doubt right you there's something to be doubt right you there's something to be doubt right you there's something to be gained from from seeing there's a signal gained from from seeing there's a signal gained from from seeing there's a signal there but like how representative is there but like how representative is there but like how representative is that signal of the broader thing there's that signal of the broader thing there's that signal of the broader thing there's a whole lot more noise than signal more a whole lot more noise than signal more a whole lot more noise than signal more often than not all right so as I often than not all right so as I often than not all right so as I mentioned Cost Plus drugs there's so mentioned Cost Plus drugs there's so mentioned Cost Plus drugs there's so many questions I can ask here but uh many questions I can ask here but uh many questions I can ask here but uh what's the big question what's broken what's the big question what's broken what's the big question what's broken about our healthc care system there's no about our healthc care system there's no about our healthc care system there's no transparency there and when there lack transparency there and when there lack transparency there and when there lack of transparency leads to lack of trust of transparency leads to lack of trust of transparency leads to lack of trust and when you can't trust the Health Care and when you can't trust the Health Care and when you can't trust the Health Care System other than maybe your doctor System other than maybe your doctor System other than maybe your doctor that's a broken system so what aspect of that's a broken system so what aspect of that's a broken system so what aspect of uh the system that cost plus drugs is uh the system that cost plus drugs is uh the system that cost plus drugs is trying to solve so the thing we're trying to solve so the thing we're trying to solve so the thing we're trying to solve for is trust and the way trying to solve for is trust and the way trying to solve for is trust and the way we feel we get there is through complete we feel we get there is through complete we feel we get there is through complete transparency so when you go to cplus transparency so when you go to cplus transparency so when you go to cplus drugs.com and you put in the name of the drugs.com and you put in the name of the drugs.com and you put in the name of the medication if it's one of the 2500 and medication if it's one of the 2500 and medication if it's one of the 2500 and growing that we carry we will first show growing that we carry we will first show growing that we carry we will first show you our cost what we actually pay for it you our cost what we actually pay for it you our cost what we actually pay for it then we'll show you our 15% markup then then we'll show you our 15% markup then then we'll show you our 15% markup then we'll show the the pharmacy fill fee and we'll show the the pharmacy fill fee and we'll show the the pharmacy fill fee and shipping and that's your total price and shipping and that's your total price and shipping and that's your total price and that alone that transparency alone is that alone that transparency alone is that alone that transparency alone is completely revolutionizing how drugs are completely revolutionizing how drugs are completely revolutionizing how drugs are priced in in America today and it's led

priced in in America today and it's led priced in in America today and it's led to you know research being done to you know research being done to you know research being done comparing our pricing to CMS um and ours comparing our pricing to CMS um and ours comparing our pricing to CMS um and ours being cheaper you know then even the being cheaper you know then even the being cheaper you know then even the government is negotiating etc etc etc government is negotiating etc etc etc government is negotiating etc etc etc and so just that transparently and so just that transparently and so just that transparently transparency loan has has had an impact transparency loan has has had an impact transparency loan has has had an impact and saved millions of people hundreds of and saved millions of people hundreds of and saved millions of people hundreds of millions of dollars or more and maybe it millions of dollars or more and maybe it millions of dollars or more and maybe it results in more transparency in other results in more transparency in other results in more transparency in other parts of the system too corre seeing the parts of the system too corre seeing the parts of the system too corre seeing the business of it but uh what do the business of it but uh what do the business of it but uh what do the so-called middlemen companies so the the so-called middlemen companies so the the so-called middlemen companies so the the pbms pharmacy benefit managers thank you pbms pharmacy benefit managers thank you pbms pharmacy benefit managers thank you CVS care Mark signas Express Scripts and CVS care Mark signas Express Scripts and CVS care Mark signas Express Scripts and United Health's optim RX they control United Health's optim RX they control United Health's optim RX they control majority of the market right what do majority of the market right what do majority of the market right what do they do wrong they put profit over they do wrong they put profit over they do wrong they put profit over everything right and they know in an in everything right and they know in an in everything right and they know in an in an industry that's completely opaque an industry that's completely opaque an industry that's completely opaque they can pretty much do what they want they can pretty much do what they want they can pretty much do what they want and nobody gets to see what they're and nobody gets to see what they're and nobody gets to see what they're doing in detail and so you know the doing in detail and so you know the doing in detail and so you know the first thing when you um sign a contract first thing when you um sign a contract first thing when you um sign a contract with one of those big pbms it says you with one of those big pbms it says you with one of those big pbms it says you can't disclose any of this and the fact can't disclose any of this and the fact can't disclose any of this and the fact that you can't be disclosed means they that you can't be disclosed means they that you can't be disclosed means they could tell Lex's company that um they're could tell Lex's company that um they're could tell Lex's company that um they're being you know they're getting a great being you know they're getting a great being you know they're getting a great price and they're only being charged X price and they're only being charged X price and they're only being charged X and they can call tell Mark's company oh and they can call tell Mark's company oh and they can call tell Mark's company oh you're getting a great price and we're you're getting a great price and we're you're getting a great price and we're charging Mark X Plus right but Mark charging Mark X Plus right but Mark charging Mark X Plus right but Mark doesn't know any better because there's doesn't know any better because there's doesn't know any better because there's no way to know the markup is not no way to know the markup is not no way to know the markup is not transparent the cost isn't transparent transparent the cost isn't transparent transparent the cost isn't transparent the markup isn't transparent you know

the markup isn't transparent you know the markup isn't transparent you know and you know there's different things and you know there's different things and you know there's different things you know like I was just talking to a you know like I was just talking to a you know like I was just talking to a company um in a presentation a couple company um in a presentation a couple company um in a presentation a couple days ago and they took the step to days ago and they took the step to days ago and they took the step to leave the big three pbms to go to a leave the big three pbms to go to a leave the big three pbms to go to a rebate free PBM that was smaller um and rebate free PBM that was smaller um and rebate free PBM that was smaller um and what they said led to the decision they what they said led to the decision they what they said led to the decision they had a contract with the PBM for these had a contract with the PBM for these had a contract with the PBM for these things called rebates right where things called rebates right where things called rebates right where depending on the volume of medications depending on the volume of medications depending on the volume of medications you buy they'll kick back to you um a you buy they'll kick back to you um a you buy they'll kick back to you um a percentage of them and as it turns out percentage of them and as it turns out percentage of them and as it turns out when they compared what was contracted when they compared what was contracted when they compared what was contracted for to what they actually got they were for to what they actually got they were for to what they actually got they were getting underpaid every single year they getting underpaid every single year they getting underpaid every single year they just don't care right they'll take just don't care right they'll take just don't care right they'll take products there's there's a drug called products there's there's a drug called products there's there's a drug called Huma right and it is the number one Huma right and it is the number one Huma right and it is the number one Revenue um drug um in the country and Revenue um drug um in the country and Revenue um drug um in the country and there's also bio similar multiple there's also bio similar multiple there's also bio similar multiple biosimilar but one we carry called usim biosimilar but one we carry called usim biosimilar but one we carry called usim and Huma the the pre- rebate price is and Huma the the pre- rebate price is and Huma the the pre- rebate price is about $8,000 per month and after rebates about $8,000 per month and after rebates about $8,000 per month and after rebates depending on the size of the company depending on the size of the company depending on the size of the company it'll be anywhere from $3 to $6,000 a it'll be anywhere from $3 to $6,000 a it'll be anywhere from $3 to $6,000 a month you can go to get um your doctor month you can go to get um your doctor month you can go to get um your doctor to prescribe that bio simler you simmer to prescribe that bio simler you simmer to prescribe that bio simler you simmer and you pay and you pay and you pay $594 but those big three pbms won't $594 but those big three pbms won't $594 but those big three pbms won't allow their clients to um get youim allow their clients to um get youim allow their clients to um get youim because they don't get a rebate on you because they don't get a rebate on you because they don't get a rebate on you Sim so they'd rather keep a drug on Sim so they'd rather keep a drug on Sim so they'd rather keep a drug on their formulary even though their their formulary even though their their formulary even though their patients would save their customers patients would save their customers patients would save their customers would save a lot of money they'd rather would save a lot of money they'd rather would save a lot of money they'd rather keep a drug and exclude another because keep a drug and exclude another because keep a drug and exclude another because they'll make a lot more money so the CVS

they'll make a lot more money so the CVS they'll make a lot more money so the CVS KARK spokesperson I think responded to KARK spokesperson I think responded to KARK spokesperson I think responded to you uhhuh Phil you uhhuh Phil you uhhuh Phil blando with with the usual blando with with the usual blando with with the usual language that so deeply exhausts me but language that so deeply exhausts me but language that so deeply exhausts me but I I was wondering if there's TR any I I was wondering if there's TR any I I was wondering if there's TR any truth to it employers unions health truth to it employers unions health truth to it employers unions health plans and government programs work with plans and government programs work with plans and government programs work with CVS KARK precisely because we deliver CVS KARK precisely because we deliver CVS KARK precisely because we deliver for them lower drug costs Better Health for them lower drug costs Better Health for them lower drug costs Better Health outcomes and Broad Pharmacy access outcomes and Broad Pharmacy access outcomes and Broad Pharmacy access through our true cost cost Vantage and through our true cost cost Vantage and through our true cost cost Vantage and choice formulary initiatives we are the choice formulary initiatives we are the choice formulary initiatives we are the leading Agent of Change Innovation and leading Agent of Change Innovation and leading Agent of Change Innovation and transparency in the market that's a transparency in the market that's a transparency in the market that's a whole lot of nothing so they they are whole lot of nothing so they they are whole lot of nothing so they they are not transparent no no call them up you not transparent no no call them up you not transparent no no call them up you go to Cost Plus drugs we'll give you our go to Cost Plus drugs we'll give you our go to Cost Plus drugs we'll give you our price list of every all5 200 plus drugs price list of every all5 200 plus drugs price list of every all5 200 plus drugs the actual cost the actual cost and what the actual cost the actual cost and what the actual cost the actual cost and what we sell it for because it's just a plus we sell it for because it's just a plus we sell it for because it's just a plus 15% call up any of the big three 15% call up any of the big three 15% call up any of the big three companies and ask them for the same companies and ask them for the same companies and ask them for the same thing they're going to laugh at you it's thing they're going to laugh at you it's thing they're going to laugh at you it's so bad in fact if you do business with so bad in fact if you do business with so bad in fact if you do business with them right now and you just ask for your them right now and you just ask for your them right now and you just ask for your claims data meaning you know how many claims data meaning you know how many claims data meaning you know how many people use humra that we're paying what people use humra that we're paying what people use humra that we're paying what are we paying for it they won't even are we paying for it they won't even are we paying for it they won't even give it to you unless you really really give it to you unless you really really give it to you unless you really really scream and yell at them and then they'll scream and yell at them and then they'll scream and yell at them and then they'll charge you and take six months to get it charge you and take six months to get it charge you and take six months to get it so like when we moved away from them we so like when we moved away from them we so like when we moved away from them we wanted to get what our claims data was wanted to get what our claims data was wanted to get what our claims data was to understand what we were going to be to understand what we were going to be to understand what we were going to be facing they won't give it to us until facing they won't give it to us until facing they won't give it to us until like six months later I forget the exact like six months later I forget the exact like six months later I forget the exact amount but and then we they charge us amount but and then we they charge us amount but and then we they charge us for it as well our own data on the CEO for it as well our own data on the CEO for it as well our own data on the CEO front you you've said that CEOs don't

front you you've said that CEOs don't front you you've said that CEOs don't understand healthc care coverage it's understand healthc care coverage it's understand healthc care coverage it's costing them big what what's what's the costing them big what what's what's the costing them big what what's what's the connection between oh Cost Plus drugs connection between oh Cost Plus drugs connection between oh Cost Plus drugs and companies so I can speak for my own and companies so I can speak for my own and companies so I can speak for my own companies and the supply to all companies and the supply to all companies and the supply to all companies big you know bigger companies companies big you know bigger companies companies big you know bigger companies that self-insure because we self-insured that self-insure because we self-insured that self-insure because we self-insured um when I finally when we started Cost um when I finally when we started Cost um when I finally when we started Cost Plus I finally said okay it's time for Plus I finally said okay it's time for Plus I finally said okay it's time for me to understand how I'm paying for my me to understand how I'm paying for my me to understand how I'm paying for my healthc care for my employees and their healthc care for my employees and their healthc care for my employees and their families and the first thing I looked at families and the first thing I looked at families and the first thing I looked at was a lot of these companies use was a lot of these companies use was a lot of these companies use employee benefits consultants and turns employee benefits consultants and turns employee benefits consultants and turns out I was getting I was paying $30 per out I was getting I was paying $30 per out I was getting I was paying $30 per employee per month which was millions of employee per month which was millions of employee per month which was millions of dollars a year and they were just dollars a year and they were just dollars a year and they were just sending us to the companies that paid sending us to the companies that paid sending us to the companies that paid the biggest commissions I'm like how the biggest commissions I'm like how the biggest commissions I'm like how fucking dumb am I right so I'm like okay fucking dumb am I right so I'm like okay fucking dumb am I right so I'm like okay we're cutting that and then I looked at we're cutting that and then I looked at we're cutting that and then I looked at our um medication our prescription deal our um medication our prescription deal our um medication our prescription deal that goes through the pbms that we were that goes through the pbms that we were that goes through the pbms that we were using and that the consultant connected using and that the consultant connected using and that the consultant connected us with and I took a list of this was us with and I took a list of this was us with and I took a list of this was early on in Cost Plus drugs list of the early on in Cost Plus drugs list of the early on in Cost Plus drugs list of the generic drugs that we sold that cost generic drugs that we sold that cost generic drugs that we sold that cost more than $30 that the Mavericks also more than $30 that the Mavericks also more than $30 that the Mavericks also had purchased right we were able to get had purchased right we were able to get had purchased right we were able to get that claims data and it turns out we that claims data and it turns out we that claims data and it turns out we spent spent spent $169,000 with that PBM one of the big $169,000 with that PBM one of the big $169,000 with that PBM one of the big three pbms and would have cost us buying three pbms and would have cost us buying three pbms and would have cost us buying from Cost Plus drugs $19,000 and that's just a simple example $19,000 and that's just a simple example then I looked at the insurance side of then I looked at the insurance side of then I looked at the insurance side of things right we self-insure um so there things right we self-insure um so there things right we self-insure um so there weren't premiums per se but we were

weren't premiums per se but we were weren't premiums per se but we were getting charged getting charged getting charged $17.15 per employee per month just to $17.15 per employee per month just to $17.15 per employee per month just to use the network that they put together use the network that they put together use the network that they put together for us you know providers hospitals or for us you know providers hospitals or for us you know providers hospitals or whatever and I'm like all right are whatever and I'm like all right are whatever and I'm like all right are there companies that won't charge us to there companies that won't charge us to there companies that won't charge us to put together these networks turns out put together these networks turns out put together these networks turns out there's a lot of them and those that there's a lot of them and those that there's a lot of them and those that those insurance companies and those pbms those insurance companies and those pbms those insurance companies and those pbms are also responsible for determining are also responsible for determining are also responsible for determining what claims what what um what to what claims what what um what to what claims what what um what to authorize and what to deny right so for authorize and what to deny right so for authorize and what to deny right so for a drug it may be all right this is an a drug it may be all right this is an a drug it may be all right this is an expensive drug but before they'll allow expensive drug but before they'll allow expensive drug but before they'll allow before they'll say they'll pay for the before they'll say they'll pay for the before they'll say they'll pay for the drug that your doctor wants to prescribe drug that your doctor wants to prescribe drug that your doctor wants to prescribe for you you have to try these three for you you have to try these three for you you have to try these three other drugs in what's called Step Up other drugs in what's called Step Up other drugs in what's called Step Up therapy right to see if these other therapy right to see if these other therapy right to see if these other cheaper drugs work or they're not even cheaper drugs work or they're not even cheaper drugs work or they're not even necessarily cheaper they may just be um necessarily cheaper they may just be um necessarily cheaper they may just be um being pushed because they're getting a being pushed because they're getting a being pushed because they're getting a higher rebate and so I'm like that's higher rebate and so I'm like that's higher rebate and so I'm like that's insane I want my employees to get the insane I want my employees to get the insane I want my employees to get the medication that the doctors say is best medication that the doctors say is best medication that the doctors say is best and so I didn't realize those were the and so I didn't realize those were the and so I didn't realize those were the intricacies of how my health or where my intricacies of how my health or where my intricacies of how my health or where my Healthcare dollars went there's not a Healthcare dollars went there's not a Healthcare dollars went there's not a single CEO who does because that's not a single CEO who does because that's not a single CEO who does because that's not a core competency that they need and the core competency that they need and the core competency that they need and the CFOs that's not their core competency CFOs that's not their core competency CFOs that's not their core competency and the HR people they contribute and and the HR people they contribute and and the HR people they contribute and they understand it some because they're they understand it some because they're they understand it some because they're dealing with the claims but they spend dealing with the claims but they spend dealing with the claims but they spend most of their prescription drug related most of their prescription drug related most of their prescription drug related time or healthcare related times trying time or healthcare related times trying time or healthcare related times trying to get pre-authorizations approved so to get pre-authorizations approved so to get pre-authorizations approved so you know your kid breaks their arm or you know your kid breaks their arm or you know your kid breaks their arm or you have you you get sick and you go to you have you you get sick and you go to you have you you get sick and you go to the doctor and before the doctor will do

the doctor and before the doctor will do the doctor and before the doctor will do a surgery or do whatever they have to go a surgery or do whatever they have to go a surgery or do whatever they have to go to the insurance company get to the insurance company get to the insurance company get pre-authorized and then they always say pre-authorized and then they always say pre-authorized and then they always say no right and then you have to go back no right and then you have to go back no right and then you have to go back and somebody has to argue for you and and somebody has to argue for you and and somebody has to argue for you and that just eats up employee time because that just eats up employee time because that just eats up employee time because you know I'm sick or my kid sick and you know I'm sick or my kid sick and you know I'm sick or my kid sick and you're wasting my time eats up HR time you're wasting my time eats up HR time you're wasting my time eats up HR time the CEOs don't know any of this right so the CEOs don't know any of this right so the CEOs don't know any of this right so what I'm saying is one the smartest what I'm saying is one the smartest what I'm saying is one the smartest thing to do is to get a healthcare CEO thing to do is to get a healthcare CEO thing to do is to get a healthcare CEO at every company with over let's say 500 at every company with over let's say 500 at every company with over let's say 500 employes that focuses on all these employes that focuses on all these employes that focuses on all these things you'd save a shitload of money things you'd save a shitload of money things you'd save a shitload of money and two healthc care is your second and two healthc care is your second and two healthc care is your second largest line item expense after largest line item expense after largest line item expense after payroll and in some companies it's payroll and in some companies it's payroll and in some companies it's hundreds billions of dollars right you hundreds billions of dollars right you hundreds billions of dollars right you don't understand it and you're letting don't understand it and you're letting don't understand it and you're letting these guys rip you off and it's because these guys rip you off and it's because these guys rip you off and it's because these big CEOs don't understand it and these big CEOs don't understand it and these big CEOs don't understand it and are getting ripped off that the industry are getting ripped off that the industry are getting ripped off that the industry is the way it is because that allows is the way it is because that allows is the way it is because that allows trans the the opacity to continue that's trans the the opacity to continue that's trans the the opacity to continue that's fascinating fascinating fascinating so so the mo most companies uh Outsource so so the mo most companies uh Outsource so so the mo most companies uh Outsource offload sort of the expertise on the offload sort of the expertise on the offload sort of the expertise on the healthcare side when they really should healthcare side when they really should healthcare side when they really should be internally there should be an expert be internally there should be an expert be internally there should be an expert that because it's the wellness of your that because it's the wellness of your that because it's the wellness of your employees and their families cost a lot employees and their families cost a lot employees and their families cost a lot of money it's yeah but if your employees of money it's yeah but if your employees of money it's yeah but if your employees aren't healthy or if they're worried aren't healthy or if they're worried aren't healthy or if they're worried about their kids and what is more about their kids and what is more about their kids and what is more worrisome and detrimental to the worrisome and detrimental to the worrisome and detrimental to the performance of a company right a Dei performance of a company right a Dei performance of a company right a Dei program program program or or having to go to HR and scream and or or having to go to HR and scream and or or having to go to HR and scream and yell and explain and and your doctor yell and explain and and your doctor yell and explain and and your doctor wasting their time doing the same thing

wasting their time doing the same thing wasting their time doing the same thing to get authorization for a surgery or to get authorization for a surgery or to get authorization for a surgery or medication it's insane what made you medication it's insane what made you medication it's insane what made you decide to step into this cartel like decide to step into this cartel like decide to step into this cartel like situation uh where so much is opaque so situation uh where so much is opaque so situation uh where so much is opaque so I got a cold email from a Dr Alex hansy I got a cold email from a Dr Alex hansy I got a cold email from a Dr Alex hansy who's my co-founder he's a radiologist who's my co-founder he's a radiologist who's my co-founder he's a radiologist by trade and a physicist and a smart by trade and a physicist and a smart by trade and a physicist and a smart motherfucker um and he had a pharmacy motherfucker um and he had a pharmacy motherfucker um and he had a pharmacy that he wanted to create a compounding that he wanted to create a compounding that he wanted to create a compounding pharmacy that would manufacture um pharmacy that would manufacture um pharmacy that would manufacture um generic drugs that were in short supply generic drugs that were in short supply generic drugs that were in short supply because it happens all the time that because it happens all the time that because it happens all the time that things aren't available I'm like you're things aren't available I'm like you're things aren't available I'm like you're thinking too small we should do thinking too small we should do thinking too small we should do something on a much bigger scale yeah something on a much bigger scale yeah something on a much bigger scale yeah and then it was right around the time and then it was right around the time and then it was right around the time they were sending the pharmacy bro they were sending the pharmacy bro they were sending the pharmacy bro Martin scr to jail and so I was reading Martin scr to jail and so I was reading Martin scr to jail and so I was reading up on that and he increased the price of up on that and he increased the price of up on that and he increased the price of this drug der Prim I think it was like this drug der Prim I think it was like this drug der Prim I think it was like 7,5% or increased a lowcost drug to 7,5% or increased a lowcost drug to 7,5% or increased a lowcost drug to $7,500 one of those and I'm like well if $7,500 one of those and I'm like well if $7,500 one of those and I'm like well if he can just jack up the price to this he can just jack up the price to this he can just jack up the price to this drug and charge more and get away with drug and charge more and get away with drug and charge more and get away with it this has to be an incredibly it this has to be an incredibly it this has to be an incredibly inefficient inefficient inefficient market and so the question is why is he market and so the question is why is he market and so the question is why is he able to do it and it was immediately able to do it and it was immediately able to do it and it was immediately apparent that it was a lack of apparent that it was a lack of apparent that it was a lack of transparency and so can we start a transparency and so can we start a transparency and so can we start a company that is fully transparent with company that is fully transparent with company that is fully transparent with our cost our markup and our selling our cost our markup and our selling our cost our markup and our selling price and see if it works and so we went price and see if it works and so we went price and see if it works and so we went for it and it took off immediately I for it and it took off immediately I for it and it took off immediately I mean you you know you read a press mean you you know you read a press mean you you know you read a press release from a company saying you know release from a company saying you know release from a company saying you know they were creating a cost Advantage they were creating a cost Advantage they were creating a cost Advantage Program basically pretending to Program basically pretending to Program basically pretending to replicate us yeah we haven't been in replicate us yeah we haven't been in replicate us yeah we haven't been in business two business two business two years how insane is that did you get a years how insane is that did you get a years how insane is that did you get a lot of pressure I mean I'm sure they're

lot of pressure I mean I'm sure they're lot of pressure I mean I'm sure they're very good at playing games like so very good at playing games like so very good at playing games like so cartel type situations they protect it cartel type situations they protect it cartel type situations they protect it feels like healthcare like very feels like healthcare like very feels like healthcare like very difficult to get in there it very it do difficult to get in there it very it do difficult to get in there it very it do I mean and the whole industry is an I mean and the whole industry is an I mean and the whole industry is an Arbitrage but we don't work inside the Arbitrage but we don't work inside the Arbitrage but we don't work inside the system we work outside the system and so system we work outside the system and so system we work outside the system and so we don't work with those biggest we don't work with those biggest we don't work with those biggest companies the biggest companies with the companies the biggest companies with the companies the biggest companies with the most dominant control you know it's very most dominant control you know it's very most dominant control you know it's very insulated and very controlled like you insulated and very controlled like you insulated and very controlled like you said um we work outside them we won't said um we work outside them we won't said um we work outside them we won't work with them and so because of that we work with them and so because of that we work with them and so because of that we don't have access to every medication don't have access to every medication don't have access to every medication because they've told a lot of the Big because they've told a lot of the Big because they've told a lot of the Big Brand manufacturers that if they work Brand manufacturers that if they work Brand manufacturers that if they work with us they'll take them off their with us they'll take them off their with us they'll take them off their formularies or change the rebate formularies or change the rebate formularies or change the rebate structure so that they won't be structure so that they won't be structure so that they won't be prescribed prescribed prescribed yeah it is dark but we'll get past that yeah it is dark but we'll get past that yeah it is dark but we'll get past that right because there's a downstream right because there's a downstream right because there's a downstream impact of all this in the rebates and impact of all this in the rebates and impact of all this in the rebates and the greediness of those big three pbms the greediness of those big three pbms the greediness of those big three pbms when you go to a local pharmacy here in when you go to a local pharmacy here in when you go to a local pharmacy here in Austin right and let's just say you have Austin right and let's just say you have Austin right and let's just say you have you have a friend here right that is on you have a friend here right that is on you have a friend here right that is on Medicare or Medicare Advantage and they Medicare or Medicare Advantage and they Medicare or Medicare Advantage and they go to a local pharmacy and they get a go to a local pharmacy and they get a go to a local pharmacy and they get a drug that cost drug that cost drug that cost $600 well in the insurance company that $600 well in the insurance company that $600 well in the insurance company that $600 the pharmacy first buys that drug $600 the pharmacy first buys that drug $600 the pharmacy first buys that drug for probably that price minus 5% so $570 for probably that price minus 5% so $570 for probably that price minus 5% so $570 then there's probably a co-pay by the then there's probably a co-pay by the then there's probably a co-pay by the patient and that's probably $20 so now patient and that's probably $20 so now patient and that's probably $20 so now the net investment that the pharmacy the the net investment that the pharmacy the the net investment that the pharmacy the local pharmacy has for that Med brand local pharmacy has for that Med brand local pharmacy has for that Med brand medication is medication is medication is $550 where it gets really fucked up is $550 where it gets really fucked up is $550 where it gets really fucked up is those big three those big three those big three pbms they're not reimbursing them $550

pbms they're not reimbursing them $550 pbms they're not reimbursing them $550 or more they're reimbursing them $500 or or more they're reimbursing them $500 or or more they're reimbursing them $500 or less less less less and literally those Community less and literally those Community less and literally those Community pharmacies are eating that loss and as a pharmacies are eating that loss and as a pharmacies are eating that loss and as a result they're going out of business result they're going out of business result they're going out of business left and right and the most insane part left and right and the most insane part left and right and the most insane part of it is yes with corporate um employer of it is yes with corporate um employer of it is yes with corporate um employer insurance that happens but it happens insurance that happens but it happens insurance that happens but it happens more with Medicare Part D and Medicare more with Medicare Part D and Medicare more with Medicare Part D and Medicare Advantage it happens all the time with Advantage it happens all the time with Advantage it happens all the time with those almost with every script so the those almost with every script so the those almost with every script so the government is complicit in these government is complicit in these government is complicit in these Community pharmacies going out of Community pharmacies going out of Community pharmacies going out of business so how does that uh how does business so how does that uh how does business so how does that uh how does that connect to Cost Plus drugs and what that connect to Cost Plus drugs and what that connect to Cost Plus drugs and what we're doing and the big Brands the big we're doing and the big Brands the big we're doing and the big Brands the big Brands know that if all these Community Brands know that if all these Community Brands know that if all these Community pharmacies are going tens of thousands pharmacies are going tens of thousands pharmacies are going tens of thousands of them are going to go out of business of them are going to go out of business of them are going to go out of business because of the way this pricing is because of the way this pricing is because of the way this pricing is they're going to lose a connection they're going to lose a connection they're going to lose a connection between their brand medications and between their brand medications and between their brand medications and Grandma and Grandpa and aun Sally and Grandma and Grandpa and aun Sally and Grandma and Grandpa and aun Sally and all those all that business is going to all those all that business is going to all those all that business is going to get transferred to the big companies and get transferred to the big companies and get transferred to the big companies and they're going to have even less leverage they're going to have even less leverage they're going to have even less leverage so they're working with us to come up so they're working with us to come up so they're working with us to come up with programs that are very supportive with programs that are very supportive with programs that are very supportive of independent pharmacies and that's of independent pharmacies and that's of independent pharmacies and that's going to allow us to break the cartel going to allow us to break the cartel going to allow us to break the cartel because it's in their best interest not because it's in their best interest not because it's in their best interest not to allow them to be so vertically to allow them to be so vertically to allow them to be so vertically integrated that they destroy the entire integrated that they destroy the entire integrated that they destroy the entire community and Independent Pharmacy community and Independent Pharmacy community and Independent Pharmacy industry is there other aspects of the industry is there other aspects of the industry is there other aspects of the healthcare industry that could use this healthcare industry that could use this healthcare industry that could use this kind of yes transparency and kind of yes transparency and kind of yes transparency and revolutionizing yeah so what we're going revolutionizing yeah so what we're going revolutionizing yeah so what we're going to do with our own health care right to do with our own health care right to do with our own health care right we're not going to be in the business of we're not going to be in the business of we're not going to be in the business of selling healthare or anything like that selling healthare or anything like that selling healthare or anything like that operate but the things we do for my

operate but the things we do for my operate but the things we do for my companies we're only going to do deal companies we're only going to do deal companies we're only going to do deal with um providers healthcare providers with um providers healthcare providers with um providers healthcare providers that allow us to be completely that allow us to be completely that allow us to be completely transparent so that whatever contracts transparent so that whatever contracts transparent so that whatever contracts we do we're going to post them all we do we're going to post them all we do we're going to post them all whatever pricing we get we're going to whatever pricing we get we're going to whatever pricing we get we're going to post them all so that every company post them all so that every company post them all so that every company who's our size or even bigger will have who's our size or even bigger will have who's our size or even bigger will have a template that they can work on which a template that they can work on which a template that they can work on which will take it away from um the the big will take it away from um the the big will take it away from um the the big three insurance companies and the big three insurance companies and the big three insurance companies and the big three pbms because now without that three pbms because now without that three pbms because now without that transparency they have to use transparency they have to use transparency they have to use Consultants who are getting paid by Consultants who are getting paid by Consultants who are getting paid by those big three you know those big those big three you know those big those big three you know those big companies and aren't giving them the companies and aren't giving them the companies and aren't giving them the best um response and so now that best um response and so now that best um response and so now that transparency will overcome that and transparency will overcome that and transparency will overcome that and you're using your how to should I say it you're using your how to should I say it you're using your how to should I say it celebrity your name yeah to kind of push celebrity your name yeah to kind of push celebrity your name yeah to kind of push this the only company I've ever put my this the only company I've ever put my this the only company I've ever put my name on it's weird that people aren't name on it's weird that people aren't name on it's weird that people aren't getting into the space like will you getting into the space like will you getting into the space like will you public people you know like big there's public people you know like big there's public people you know like big there's not like a big you know you look at Tech not like a big you know you look at Tech not like a big you know you look at Tech there's like these like like CEOs or there's like these like like CEOs or there's like these like like CEOs or open and public and public and they're open and public and public and they're open and public and public and they're pushing the company and they're selling pushing the company and they're selling pushing the company and they're selling everything it's like we're all everything it's like we're all everything it's like we're all transparent transparent transparent uh but you don't see that in in uh but you don't see that in in uh but you don't see that in in healthcare no because it's a big healthcare no because it's a big healthcare no because it's a big business and most people like if I was business and most people like if I was business and most people like if I was 25 trying to start a company I'd work in 25 trying to start a company I'd work in 25 trying to start a company I'd work in the system because if I can build it up the system because if I can build it up the system because if I can build it up big enough they would just buy me and big enough they would just buy me and big enough they would just buy me and I'd make you know money and buy a sports I'd make you know money and buy a sports I'd make you know money and buy a sports team but I don't need that money now uh team but I don't need that money now uh team but I don't need that money now uh let me ask you about AI you got a little let me ask you about AI you got a little let me ask you about AI you got a little bit of an argument about open source I bit of an argument about open source I bit of an argument about open source I think you stepped in between uh vano think you stepped in between uh vano think you stepped in between uh vano Coen Mark andri you think AI should be Coen Mark andri you think AI should be Coen Mark andri you think AI should be open sourced yeah for sure so like all

open sourced yeah for sure so like all open sourced yeah for sure so like all that discussion we've been having about that discussion we've been having about that discussion we've been having about like Google and so on one of the two like Google and so on one of the two like Google and so on one of the two different things meaning that um meta is different things meaning that um meta is different things meaning that um meta is doing open source yes right that's a doing open source yes right that's a doing open source yes right that's a good choice for them I think that's a good choice for them I think that's a good choice for them I think that's a smart choice right but it's just a smart choice right but it's just a smart choice right but it's just a business decision for everybody else I business decision for everybody else I business decision for everybody else I don't think it should be forced forced don't think it should be forced forced don't think it should be forced forced yes yeah I even Google's open open yes yeah I even Google's open open yes yeah I even Google's open open sourcing some of the models and because sourcing some of the models and because sourcing some of the models and because they're all that's a very incestuous they're all that's a very incestuous they're all that's a very incestuous industry where you know the people all industry where you know the people all industry where you know the people all work together at some level they read work together at some level they read work together at some level they read the same papers they go to the same the same papers they go to the same the same papers they go to the same conferences you know it's like the early conferences you know it's like the early conferences you know it's like the early days of streaming and the internet where days of streaming and the internet where days of streaming and the internet where people Ed the same technology everywhere people Ed the same technology everywhere people Ed the same technology everywhere and now they just try different things and now they just try different things and now they just try different things and you get one smart or two a couple and you get one smart or two a couple and you get one smart or two a couple smart people in one company like anthrop smart people in one company like anthrop smart people in one company like anthrop anthropic right and they do things a anthropic right and they do things a anthropic right and they do things a little bit better and effic model little bit better and effic model little bit better and effic model efficiency gets better so you know it's efficiency gets better so you know it's efficiency gets better so you know it's just a business choice but I don't I just a business choice but I don't I just a business choice but I don't I don't think it should be forced but I don't think it should be forced but I don't think it should be forced but I think it's a smart business decision think it's a smart business decision think it's a smart business decision open sourcing is a smart business open sourcing is a smart business open sourcing is a smart business decision yeah it's a tricky one I mean decision yeah it's a tricky one I mean decision yeah it's a tricky one I mean Google is a Pioneer in that with tensor Google is a Pioneer in that with tensor Google is a Pioneer in that with tensor flow on in the AI space that's a tricky flow on in the AI space that's a tricky flow on in the AI space that's a tricky decision to is right but go back to decision to is right but go back to decision to is right but go back to historically you know there was digital historically you know there was digital historically you know there was digital Computing which was a dominant player Computing which was a dominant player Computing which was a dominant player and they thought and IBM to a certain and they thought and IBM to a certain and they thought and IBM to a certain extent um thought that they wouldn't be extent um thought that they wouldn't be extent um thought that they wouldn't be subject to a problem with the PC subject to a problem with the PC subject to a problem with the PC industry and then all of a industry and then all of a industry and then all of a sudden and in with their their main sudden and in with their their main sudden and in with their their main frames and everything they had captive frames and everything they had captive frames and everything they had captive software they wouldn't use offthe shelf software they wouldn't use offthe shelf software they wouldn't use offthe shelf software right so for a digital software right so for a digital software right so for a digital equipment Mainframe or an IBM Mainframe equipment Mainframe or an IBM Mainframe equipment Mainframe or an IBM Mainframe you needed software that was written for

you needed software that was written for you needed software that was written for it there was nothing off the shelf and it there was nothing off the shelf and it there was nothing off the shelf and when the PC industry came along it was when the PC industry came along it was when the PC industry came along it was the exact opposite there was you know Ms the exact opposite there was you know Ms the exact opposite there was you know Ms Doss and then Windows things that were Doss and then Windows things that were Doss and then Windows things that were off the shelf that every PC could use off the shelf that every PC could use off the shelf that every PC could use and that changed how people thought and that changed how people thought and that changed how people thought about software and I think the same about software and I think the same about software and I think the same thing will happen here where it's going thing will happen here where it's going thing will happen here where it's going to be um as models become more efficient to be um as models become more efficient to be um as models become more efficient and easier and less expensive to train and easier and less expensive to train and easier and less expensive to train um I think there'll be more more reasons um I think there'll be more more reasons um I think there'll be more more reasons to open source yeah that's the hope it to open source yeah that's the hope it to open source yeah that's the hope it creates more competition and a lot of creates more competition and a lot of creates more competition and a lot of different different different diversity of diversity of diversity of approaches uh in how they're implemented approaches uh in how they're implemented approaches uh in how they're implemented deployed what kind of products they deployed what kind of products they deployed what kind of products they create all of that V compared the danger create all of that V compared the danger create all of that V compared the danger of that to the Manhattan Project that of that to the Manhattan Project that of that to the Manhattan Project that yeah I yeah I'm not buying that at all yeah I yeah I'm not buying that at all yeah I yeah I'm not buying that at all you don't see the parallels between you don't see the parallels between you don't see the parallels between nuclear weapons and no no I I I think nuclear weapons and no no I I I think nuclear weapons and no no I I I think I'm not an AI fatalist at all right I'm I'm not an AI fatalist at all right I'm I'm not an AI fatalist at all right I'm I'm an AI Optimist and but but it's not I'm an AI Optimist and but but it's not I'm an AI Optimist and but but it's not to say that there isn't a lot of scary to say that there isn't a lot of scary to say that there isn't a lot of scary shit that can happen with it militar shit that can happen with it militar shit that can happen with it militar um you know like I said earlier I'm a um you know like I said earlier I'm a um you know like I said earlier I'm a big believer that there's going to be big believer that there's going to be big believer that there's going to be millions and tens of millions of models millions and tens of millions of models millions and tens of millions of models and people will take their expertise and and people will take their expertise and and people will take their expertise and either get hired for it um and either get hired for it um and either get hired for it um and contribute or create their own models contribute or create their own models contribute or create their own models and license so that you know you see now and license so that you know you see now and license so that you know you see now with this thing called mixture of with this thing called mixture of with this thing called mixture of experts right where you you connect experts right where you you connect experts right where you you connect things and and um people can take their things and and um people can take their things and and um people can take their expertise and will be able to take that expertise and will be able to take that expertise and will be able to take that expertise and retain it in a way that

expertise and retain it in a way that expertise and retain it in a way that they want to retain it so you know I they want to retain it so you know I they want to retain it so you know I don't think there's going to be one don't think there's going to be one don't think there's going to be one medical database I told this to people medical database I told this to people medical database I told this to people at a couple big companies that were at a couple big companies that were at a couple big companies that were doing Healthcare doing Healthcare doing Healthcare initiatives I there branding is so initiatives I there branding is so initiatives I there branding is so important in the healthare space if you important in the healthare space if you important in the healthare space if you know for hospitals you know the Mayo know for hospitals you know the Mayo know for hospitals you know the Mayo clinics the MD Andersons they're huge clinics the MD Andersons they're huge clinics the MD Andersons they're huge Brands and I don't think they're just Brands and I don't think they're just Brands and I don't think they're just going to give up their expertise to some going to give up their expertise to some going to give up their expertise to some you know main singular model you know you know main singular model you know you know main singular model you know and say okay you know whatever expertise and say okay you know whatever expertise and say okay you know whatever expertise we have is available to you in gemini or we have is available to you in gemini or we have is available to you in gemini or chat gupt or you know so and so's chat gupt or you know so and so's chat gupt or you know so and so's version of of meta's Open Source I just version of of meta's Open Source I just version of of meta's Open Source I just don't I there's just that would be don't I there's just that would be don't I there's just that would be business suicide um and so I think business suicide um and so I think business suicide um and so I think you're going to see each of them have you're going to see each of them have you're going to see each of them have their own models and update them as they their own models and update them as they their own models and update them as they go and license them yeah and yeah make go and license them yeah and yeah make go and license them yeah and yeah make money from the expertise don't give away money from the expertise don't give away money from the expertise don't give away yeah yeah yeah and the expertise evolves yeah yeah yeah and the expertise evolves yeah yeah yeah and the expertise evolves and grows and all that kind of stuff and and grows and all that kind of stuff and and grows and all that kind of stuff and you want to own that growth uh what you want to own that growth uh what you want to own that growth uh what advice would you give give to young advice would you give give to young advice would you give give to young people you have an exceptionally people you have an exceptionally people you have an exceptionally successful career you came from Little successful career you came from Little successful career you came from Little made a lot what advice would you give made a lot what advice would you give made a lot what advice would you give them love your life right you know find them love your life right you know find them love your life right you know find the things that you can enjoy be curious the things that you can enjoy be curious the things that you can enjoy be curious you don't have to have all the answers you don't have to have all the answers you don't have to have all the answers when you're 12 15 I get emails from 13 when you're 12 15 I get emails from 13 when you're 12 15 I get emails from 13 15 year old kids right what do I do what 15 year old kids right what do I do what 15 year old kids right what do I do what do I do right you know I feel like I'm do I do right you know I feel like I'm do I do right you know I feel like I'm being held back I'm like a 15 you feel being held back I'm like a 15 you feel being held back I'm like a 15 you feel like you're being held back um but just like you're being held back um but just like you're being held back um but just be curious because you don't have to be curious because you don't have to be curious because you don't have to have the answers you have to know what have the answers you have to know what have the answers you have to know what you're going to be when you grow up I you're going to be when you grow up I you're going to be when you grow up I I'm a hardcore believer that everybody

I'm a hardcore believer that everybody I'm a hardcore believer that everybody has something that they're really really has something that they're really really has something that they're really really really good at that could be world class really good at that could be world class really good at that could be world class great every single human being on this great every single human being on this great every single human being on this planet and the hard part is just finding planet and the hard part is just finding planet and the hard part is just finding what that is and in in some places what that is and in in some places what that is and in in some places having resources to enable it um but be having resources to enable it um but be having resources to enable it um but be curious so you can find out what it is I curious so you can find out what it is I curious so you can find out what it is I didn't take a techn I took one didn't take a techn I took one didn't take a techn I took one technology class in in College Fort Tran technology class in in College Fort Tran technology class in in College Fort Tran programming and I cheated on it right I programming and I cheated on it right I programming and I cheated on it right I I mean it wasn't until I got a job at I mean it wasn't until I got a job at I mean it wasn't until I got a job at melon bank and I started learning how to melon bank and I started learning how to melon bank and I started learning how to program in this thing called RIS this program in this thing called RIS this program in this thing called RIS this the scripting Computing language that I the scripting Computing language that I the scripting Computing language that I realized oh this is interesting to me realized oh this is interesting to me realized oh this is interesting to me and I like it and that's what got me you and I like it and that's what got me you and I like it and that's what got me you know a job selling software and and the know a job selling software and and the know a job selling software and and the you know going on from there you just you know going on from there you just you know going on from there you just don't know what that's going to be until don't know what that's going to be until don't know what that's going to be until you go out and experience different you go out and experience different you go out and experience different things So for anybody young out there things So for anybody young out there things So for anybody young out there listening you know enjoy your life find listening you know enjoy your life find listening you know enjoy your life find things to smile about be curious read things to smile about be curious read things to smile about be curious read watch you know expose yourself to as watch you know expose yourself to as watch you know expose yourself to as many different ideas as you can because many different ideas as you can because many different ideas as you can because something's going to click at some point something's going to click at some point something's going to click at some point you may be 15 you may be 25 you may be you may be 15 you may be 25 you may be you may be 15 you may be 25 you may be 55 but it can happen one thing to 55 but it can happen one thing to 55 but it can happen one thing to mention is that sometimes it's difficult mention is that sometimes it's difficult mention is that sometimes it's difficult where your parents people around you where your parents people around you where your parents people around you might not be U conducive or might not be might not be U conducive or might not be might not be U conducive or might not be a of help in finding the thing you're a of help in finding the thing you're a of help in finding the thing you're good at in fact like in my own life you good at in fact like in my own life you good at in fact like in my own life you know the society was such that I don't know the society was such that I don't know the society was such that I don't know if they've help much at the thing I know if they've help much at the thing I know if they've help much at the thing I was good at I'm still not sure what that was good at I'm still not sure what that was good at I'm still not sure what that is but I think I think interviewing done

is but I think I think interviewing done is but I think I think interviewing done pretty well for you well it's not even pretty well for you well it's not even pretty well for you well it's not even it's uh there was a it's uh there was a it's uh there was a thing where I saw the beauty in people thing where I saw the beauty in people thing where I saw the beauty in people like I it very intensely so you can call like I it very intensely so you can call like I it very intensely so you can call it empathy all that kind of stuff and it empathy all that kind of stuff and it empathy all that kind of stuff and someone call it someone call it someone call it wokeness super woke I guess you could wokeness super woke I guess you could wokeness super woke I guess you could say just super woke that's me uh and you say just super woke that's me uh and you say just super woke that's me uh and you know but in the education system I I know but in the education system I I know but in the education system I I came up in is it was a very hard came up in is it was a very hard came up in is it was a very hard mathematics you know science and so on mathematics you know science and so on mathematics you know science and so on and it didn't notice that whatever that and it didn't notice that whatever that and it didn't notice that whatever that was and and mean but you know you have was and and mean but you know you have was and and mean but you know you have to keep the flame going you have to try to keep the flame going you have to try to keep the flame going you have to try to find your way and see what that's to find your way and see what that's to find your way and see what that's useful and and like others around you useful and and like others around you useful and and like others around you might not always notice it so it might might not always notice it so it might might not always notice it so it might take time so it could be lonely you can take time so it could be lonely you can take time so it could be lonely you can really have to find the strength to really have to find the strength to really have to find the strength to believe in yourself oh for sure you know believe in yourself oh for sure you know believe in yourself oh for sure you know and I'll tell you one quick story um and I'll tell you one quick story um and I'll tell you one quick story um 1992 I went to Moscow State University 1992 I went to Moscow State University 1992 I went to Moscow State University um to teach kids how to start businesses um to teach kids how to start businesses um to teach kids how to start businesses wow CU I sold um micro Solutions and I wow CU I sold um micro Solutions and I wow CU I sold um micro Solutions and I wanted to travel and I took Russian in wanted to travel and I took Russian in wanted to travel and I took Russian in high school my risky is like not show high school my risky is like not show high school my risky is like not show um good enough to remember that yeah um good enough to remember that yeah um good enough to remember that yeah right yeah um but it was interesting to right yeah um but it was interesting to right yeah um but it was interesting to me and I bring it up because just they me and I bring it up because just they me and I bring it up because just they didn't they didn't know what the word didn't they didn't know what the word didn't they didn't know what the word profit meant right but at the same time profit meant right but at the same time profit meant right but at the same time I would go around and meet people and I would go around and meet people and I would go around and meet people and there were it was as entrepreneurial there were it was as entrepreneurial there were it was as entrepreneurial like right after the the the Soviet

like right after the the the Soviet like right after the the the Soviet Union fell entrepreneurship went through Union fell entrepreneurship went through Union fell entrepreneurship went through the roof I mean a lot of it was Mafia the roof I mean a lot of it was Mafia the roof I mean a lot of it was Mafia driven but you know it was people found driven but you know it was people found driven but you know it was people found that spark you know because I think that that spark you know because I think that that spark you know because I think that that is natural um and so you just never that is natural um and so you just never that is natural um and so you just never know when and how and when the know when and how and when the know when and how and when the circumstances will come together for you circumstances will come together for you circumstances will come together for you to be able to take advantage that spark to be able to take advantage that spark to be able to take advantage that spark is really important to comment on is in is really important to comment on is in is really important to comment on is in Russia and UK Russia and UK Russia and UK brain uh I think the system kind of brain uh I think the system kind of brain uh I think the system kind of suppresses that spark somehow because suppresses that spark somehow because suppresses that spark somehow because you said you saw the natural you said you saw the natural you said you saw the natural entrepreneurship but there's not the entrepreneurship but there's not the entrepreneurship but there's not the entrepreneurial Spirit once you grow up entrepreneurial Spirit once you grow up entrepreneurial Spirit once you grow up in both of the Nations I mentioned there in both of the Nations I mentioned there in both of the Nations I mentioned there is I believe it Ukraine but there's is I believe it Ukraine but there's is I believe it Ukraine but there's something about the system that kind of something about the system that kind of something about the system that kind of you know be reasonable be you know be no you know be reasonable be you know be no you know be reasonable be you know be no reason for me to go over to do what I reason for me to go over to do what I reason for me to go over to do what I was doing if it if it was otherwise was doing if it if it was otherwise was doing if it if it was otherwise that's the thing that really can help a that's the thing that really can help a that's the thing that really can help a country flourish you know it's going to country flourish you know it's going to country flourish you know it's going to be interesting with Ukraine if they're be interesting with Ukraine if they're be interesting with Ukraine if they're able to survive this right because as able to survive this right because as able to survive this right because as horrific as it is you know as you saw horrific as it is you know as you saw horrific as it is you know as you saw across Europe after World War II um the across Europe after World War II um the across Europe after World War II um the rebuilding creates rebuilding creates rebuilding creates opportunities rebuilding creates opportunities rebuilding creates opportunities rebuilding creates opportunities but you know first the war opportunities but you know first the war opportunities but you know first the war has to end how that ends I don't know has to end how that ends I don't know has to end how that ends I don't know either is a really complex path what either is a really complex path what either is a really complex path what gives you hope about the future of gives you hope about the future of gives you hope about the future of humanity um just looking in my kids eyes humanity um just looking in my kids eyes humanity um just looking in my kids eyes just you know talking to them seeing just you know talking to them seeing just you know talking to them seeing their Spirit their friend spirit and their Spirit their friend spirit and their Spirit their friend spirit and obviously we're blessed as can be right obviously we're blessed as can be right obviously we're blessed as can be right and it's not the same for every kid but and it's not the same for every kid but and it's not the same for every kid but I do you know I get emails that I

I do you know I get emails that I I do you know I get emails that I respond don't respond to all of them but respond don't respond to all of them but respond don't respond to all of them but from 13 14 15 year old kids around the from 13 14 15 year old kids around the from 13 14 15 year old kids around the world you know because shark Tank's world you know because shark Tank's world you know because shark Tank's shown everywhere a asking me business shown everywhere a asking me business shown everywhere a asking me business questions and it's just like they took questions and it's just like they took questions and it's just like they took the time they were that curious and that the time they were that curious and that the time they were that curious and that interested and I see it when I talk to interested and I see it when I talk to interested and I see it when I talk to schools you know when I go to different schools you know when I go to different schools you know when I go to different groups groups groups um that spark in kids eyes that there's um that spark in kids eyes that there's um that spark in kids eyes that there's something bigger and better and exciting something bigger and better and exciting something bigger and better and exciting out there and that's not to say there's out there and that's not to say there's out there and that's not to say there's not fear you know climate and any other not fear you know climate and any other not fear you know climate and any other number of things but that's the beauty number of things but that's the beauty number of things but that's the beauty of of kids and and I think gen Z really of of kids and and I think gen Z really of of kids and and I think gen Z really embodies that and to me that's just embodies that and to me that's just embodies that and to me that's just really exciting they dream they dream really exciting they dream they dream really exciting they dream they dream big they see the opportunity for making big they see the opportunity for making big they see the opportunity for making the world better it's cool it's cool to the world better it's cool it's cool to the world better it's cool it's cool to see young people and that in their eyes see young people and that in their eyes see young people and that in their eyes that dream that and I could be the one that dream that and I could be the one that dream that and I could be the one to do it too which is a you know that's to do it too which is a you know that's to do it too which is a you know that's funny because I when when I go talk to funny because I when when I go talk to funny because I when when I go talk to like elementary school kids right one of like elementary school kids right one of like elementary school kids right one of the things I do I said okay let's look the things I do I said okay let's look the things I do I said okay let's look around you see that light there one day around you see that light there one day around you see that light there one day that light didn't exist then somebody that light didn't exist then somebody that light didn't exist then somebody had the idea then somebody created a had the idea then somebody created a had the idea then somebody created a product of it and now your school bought product of it and now your school bought product of it and now your school bought that you see that chair chairs didn't that you see that chair chairs didn't that you see that chair chairs didn't always look like that somebody had that always look like that somebody had that always look like that somebody had that idea why not you so when you walk out idea why not you so when you walk out idea why not you so when you walk out and what I make them do ask yourself why and what I make them do ask yourself why and what I make them do ask yourself why not me why can't I be the one to change not me why can't I be the one to change not me why can't I be the one to change the world thank you for that beautiful the world thank you for that beautiful the world thank you for that beautiful hopeful message and thank you for hopeful message and thank you for hopeful message and thank you for talking today Mark you're you're fun uh

talking today Mark you're you're fun uh talking today Mark you're you're fun uh to follow I'm a big fan of yours but to follow I'm a big fan of yours but to follow I'm a big fan of yours but you're also an important person in this you're also an important person in this you're also an important person in this world I really appreciate everything you world I really appreciate everything you world I really appreciate everything you do well I appreciate thanks for saying do well I appreciate thanks for saying do well I appreciate thanks for saying that Lex and keep on doing what you're that Lex and keep on doing what you're that Lex and keep on doing what you're doing this was great I really enjoyed doing this was great I really enjoyed doing this was great I really enjoyed this thanks for listening to this this thanks for listening to this this thanks for listening to this conversation with Mark cubin to support conversation with Mark cubin to support conversation with Mark cubin to support this podcast please check out our this podcast please check out our this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now let sponsors in the description and now let sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from Oscar me leave you with some words from Oscar me leave you with some words from Oscar Wild Wild Wild imagination was given to man to imagination was given to man to imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not and a compensate him for what he is not and a compensate him for what he is not and a sense of humor was provided to console sense of humor was provided to console sense of humor was provided to console him for what he him for what he him for what he is thank you for listening and hope to is thank you for listening and hope to is thank you for listening and hope to see you next