Abbas Amanat: Iran Protests, Mahsa Amini, History, CIA & Nuclear Weapons | Lex Fridman Podcast #334

this is not a nice Islamic fatherly this is not a nice Islamic fatherly regime regime regime clear signs of fascism clear signs of fascism clear signs of fascism clear sons of clear sons of clear sons of the state's control and pay any price to the state's control and pay any price to the state's control and pay any price to stay in power so even violence extreme stay in power so even violence extreme stay in power so even violence extreme violence the following is a conversation with the following is a conversation with Abbas Amana a historian at Yale Abbas Amana a historian at Yale Abbas Amana a historian at Yale University specializing in the modern University specializing in the modern University specializing in the modern history of Iran history of Iran history of Iran my love and my heart goes out to the my love and my heart goes out to the my love and my heart goes out to the Iranian people in their current struggle Iranian people in their current struggle Iranian people in their current struggle for freedom I hope that this for freedom I hope that this for freedom I hope that this conversation helps folks who listen conversation helps folks who listen conversation helps folks who listen understand the nature and the importance understand the nature and the importance understand the nature and the importance of this struggle of this struggle of this struggle this is the Lex Friedman podcast to this is the Lex Friedman podcast to this is the Lex Friedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends here's Abbas Amina here's Abbas Amina here's Abbas Amina let's start with the current situation let's start with the current situation let's start with the current situation in Iran in Iran in Iran on September 16th protests broke out in on September 16th protests broke out in on September 16th protests broke out in Tehran and quickly spread over the death Tehran and quickly spread over the death Tehran and quickly spread over the death of a 22 year old maksa amini of a 22 year old maksa amini of a 22 year old maksa amini eyewitnesses saw her beaten to death by eyewitnesses saw her beaten to death by eyewitnesses saw her beaten to death by the morality police this is a heavy the morality police this is a heavy the morality police this is a heavy topic but it's a really important topic topic but it's a really important topic topic but it's a really important topic what can you explain what happened the what can you explain what happened the what can you explain what happened the protests are now in their sixth week protests are now in their sixth week protests are now in their sixth week the death of that young woman the death of that young woman the death of that young woman occurred who was visiting Tehran as a occurred who was visiting Tehran as a occurred who was visiting Tehran as a tourist tourist tourist parked parked parked something very deep

something very deep something very deep that's particularly concerned the that's particularly concerned the that's particularly concerned the younger Generations that is what you younger Generations that is what you younger Generations that is what you would call the equivalent of the Z would call the equivalent of the Z would call the equivalent of the Z generation in this country yes they call generation in this country yes they call generation in this country yes they call themselves themselves themselves in person because Iran follows the solar in person because Iran follows the solar in person because Iran follows the solar calendar of its own as an ancient solar calendar of its own as an ancient solar calendar of its own as an ancient solar calendar and this the the time that they calendar and this the the time that they calendar and this the the time that they were born they were in the were born they were in the were born they were in the 1380s that's what they call themselves 1380s that's what they call themselves 1380s that's what they call themselves it is hashtag for the 80s it is hashtag for the 80s it is hashtag for the 80s and uh well the circumstances that and uh well the circumstances that and uh well the circumstances that surrounds the uh uh unfortunate death of surrounds the uh uh unfortunate death of surrounds the uh uh unfortunate death of this young beautiful this young beautiful this young beautiful Kurdish woman Kurdish woman Kurdish woman is really tragic she was arrested by the is really tragic she was arrested by the is really tragic she was arrested by the what is referred to as the morality what is referred to as the morality what is referred to as the morality police police police morality Patrol called guidance police that is police that is presumably there were two women fully presumably there were two women fully presumably there were two women fully clad that is officers serving on that clad that is officers serving on that clad that is officers serving on that force and two men force and two men force and two men and nobody exactly knows what had and nobody exactly knows what had and nobody exactly knows what had happened she had been happened she had been happened she had been beaten up beaten up beaten up and apparently there was no uh uh and apparently there was no uh uh and apparently there was no uh uh sign of any wrongdoing on her side she sign of any wrongdoing on her side she sign of any wrongdoing on her side she was fully covered was fully covered was fully covered uh it seems that uh it seems that uh it seems that there was some altercation in the

there was some altercation in the there was some altercation in the process process process and the the outcome was that she was and the the outcome was that she was and the the outcome was that she was unconscious unconscious unconscious not necessarily when she was arrested not necessarily when she was arrested not necessarily when she was arrested but in the course of the detention when but in the course of the detention when but in the course of the detention when they take them to a center presumably to they take them to a center presumably to they take them to a center presumably to re-educate them yeah and she apparently re-educate them yeah and she apparently re-educate them yeah and she apparently collapsed and maybe my sense is that she collapsed and maybe my sense is that she collapsed and maybe my sense is that she must have had some kind of a problem must have had some kind of a problem must have had some kind of a problem because of the skull being broken or because of the skull being broken or because of the skull being broken or something has happened and she died in something has happened and she died in something has happened and she died in the hospital the next day the hospital the next day the hospital the next day and that's through the social media and that's through the social media and that's through the social media was widely spread throughout was widely spread throughout was widely spread throughout Iran and almost the next day Iran and almost the next day Iran and almost the next day surprisingly you could see this outburst surprisingly you could see this outburst surprisingly you could see this outburst of sympathy for her of sympathy for her of sympathy for her people are in the streets weeping people are in the streets weeping people are in the streets weeping because she was seen as such an innocent because she was seen as such an innocent because she was seen as such an innocent young woman 22 years old young woman 22 years old young woman 22 years old and the family the mother and the father and the family the mother and the father and the family the mother and the father also mourning for her also mourning for her also mourning for her and being a Kurt visiting Tehran and being a Kurt visiting Tehran and being a Kurt visiting Tehran this all added up to really turn her this all added up to really turn her this all added up to really turn her into some kind of a martyr of these into some kind of a martyr of these into some kind of a martyr of these cause cause cause and that's what it is and her and that's what it is and her and that's what it is and her picture picture picture graphics that were artistically produced graphics that were artistically produced graphics that were artistically produced based on her portrait has now dominates

based on her portrait has now dominates based on her portrait has now dominates basically as the symbol of this protest basically as the symbol of this protest basically as the symbol of this protest movement and the protest movement goes movement and the protest movement goes movement and the protest movement goes on everybody was thinking or at least on everybody was thinking or at least on everybody was thinking or at least the authorities were thinking that is the authorities were thinking that is the authorities were thinking that is going to die out in a matter of a few going to die out in a matter of a few going to die out in a matter of a few days but it became more intense days but it became more intense days but it became more intense first in the streets of Tehran by young first in the streets of Tehran by young first in the streets of Tehran by young women mostly probably between I would women mostly probably between I would women mostly probably between I would say 17 18 teenagers to 20 to 23 or say 17 18 teenagers to 20 to 23 or say 17 18 teenagers to 20 to 23 or thereabouts and then to University thereabouts and then to University thereabouts and then to University campuses all around the country and then campuses all around the country and then campuses all around the country and then even to high schools and that also made even to high schools and that also made even to high schools and that also made it a very remarkable protest movement it a very remarkable protest movement it a very remarkable protest movement because first of all it involves the because first of all it involves the because first of all it involves the youth youth youth and not necessarily the older and not necessarily the older and not necessarily the older Generations you see them around but not Generations you see them around but not Generations you see them around but not as many as many as many also you see men and women together also you see men and women together also you see men and women together young young young girls and boys girls and boys girls and boys and um and um and um they are adamant they are desperate in they are adamant they are desperate in they are adamant they are desperate in the sense of the tone of their protest the sense of the tone of their protest the sense of the tone of their protest and they are extremely courageous and they are extremely courageous and they are extremely courageous because they stand against the security because they stand against the security because they stand against the security forces that were immediately forces that were immediately forces that were immediately were sent off to the streets so and in were sent off to the streets so and in were sent off to the streets so and in full gear that is so what are the the full gear that is so what are the the full gear that is so what are the the currents of pain emotion currents of pain emotion currents of pain emotion um what is this turmoil that Rose to the um what is this turmoil that Rose to the um what is this turmoil that Rose to the surface that resulted in these big

surface that resulted in these big surface that resulted in these big protests what are the different feelings protests what are the different feelings protests what are the different feelings ideas that came to the surface here that ideas that came to the surface here that ideas that came to the surface here that resulted in such quick scaling of this resulted in such quick scaling of this resulted in such quick scaling of this protest well if you listen to the uh protest well if you listen to the uh protest well if you listen to the uh main slogan which is the message of this main slogan which is the message of this main slogan which is the message of this movement movement movement it's called women it's called women it's called women life Freedom Zan zendeji Azadi which is life Freedom Zan zendeji Azadi which is life Freedom Zan zendeji Azadi which is a translation of actually a translation of actually a translation of actually the Kurdish equivalent which is close to the Kurdish equivalent which is close to the Kurdish equivalent which is close to Persian being in the European language Persian being in the European language Persian being in the European language and it's apparently initiated uh first and it's apparently initiated uh first and it's apparently initiated uh first in this Syrian Kurdistan in this Syrian Kurdistan in this Syrian Kurdistan where they were fighting against the the where they were fighting against the the where they were fighting against the the Islamic daesh forces uh because they Islamic daesh forces uh because they Islamic daesh forces uh because they were attacking the were attacking the were attacking the yazidis there and the women being yazidis there and the women being yazidis there and the women being enslaved but the message as it moved enslaved but the message as it moved enslaved but the message as it moved historians are interested in this kind historians are interested in this kind historians are interested in this kind of Trends so it's just moved to of Trends so it's just moved to of Trends so it's just moved to Kurdistan and from Kurdistan now being Kurdistan and from Kurdistan now being Kurdistan and from Kurdistan now being the message of this movement reflects the message of this movement reflects the message of this movement reflects pretty much pretty much pretty much sums up what this movement is all about sums up what this movement is all about sums up what this movement is all about women women women in the Forefront in the Forefront in the Forefront because of all the one might say because of all the one might say because of all the one might say discriminations the treatment the discriminations the treatment the discriminations the treatment the humiliation that this younger generation humiliation that this younger generation humiliation that this younger generation feels well not only the younger feels well not only the younger feels well not only the younger Generations but most of the Iranian

Generations but most of the Iranian Generations but most of the Iranian secular middle classes since 1979 secular middle classes since 1979 secular middle classes since 1979 basically basically basically for the for the past 43 years and uh for the for the past 43 years and uh for the for the past 43 years and uh they would think that they would think that they would think that these all basically symbolized or these all basically symbolized or these all basically symbolized or uh uh uh represented by the varying the mandatory represented by the varying the mandatory represented by the varying the mandatory varying of the hijab which is at the varying of the hijab which is at the varying of the hijab which is at the core of this protest you see the young core of this protest you see the young core of this protest you see the young women if you look at many of these clips women if you look at many of these clips women if you look at many of these clips that comes through in the past six weeks that comes through in the past six weeks that comes through in the past six weeks women in streets take off their women in streets take off their women in streets take off their mandatory scarves which is a young child mandatory scarves which is a young child mandatory scarves which is a young child or some kind of a head covering that's or some kind of a head covering that's or some kind of a head covering that's all and they throw it into the uh all and they throw it into the uh all and they throw it into the uh bonfire in the middle of the street and bonfire in the middle of the street and bonfire in the middle of the street and they dance around it and slogans they dance around it and slogans they dance around it and slogans so there is a sense of complete so there is a sense of complete so there is a sense of complete rejection rejection rejection of what this regime for 42 years 43 of what this regime for 42 years 43 of what this regime for 42 years 43 years have been imposing on women it's years have been imposing on women it's years have been imposing on women it's as it's sometimes been portrayed a as it's sometimes been portrayed a as it's sometimes been portrayed a movement movement movement against hijab through and through but against hijab through and through but against hijab through and through but it's basically says you know there has it's basically says you know there has it's basically says you know there has to be a choice for those who want to to be a choice for those who want to to be a choice for those who want to wear hijab and those who want to remain wear hijab and those who want to remain wear hijab and those who want to remain without a job yeah the hijab is a symbol without a job yeah the hijab is a symbol without a job yeah the hijab is a symbol of something much deeper much deeper and of something much deeper much deeper and of something much deeper much deeper and actually before we get into that it's actually before we get into that it's

actually before we get into that it's interesting to note that in many of interesting to note that in many of interesting to note that in many of these demonstrations we see in the these demonstrations we see in the these demonstrations we see in the University campuses or in the streets University campuses or in the streets University campuses or in the streets you see women with hijab you see women with hijab you see women with hijab uh young women with hijab are next to uh young women with hijab are next to uh young women with hijab are next to those have to remove their hijab and those have to remove their hijab and those have to remove their hijab and they are together basically protesting they are together basically protesting they are together basically protesting that's the most interesting feature of that's the most interesting feature of that's the most interesting feature of this uh of these demonstrations and then this uh of these demonstrations and then this uh of these demonstrations and then men and women together against the men and women together against the men and women together against the segregation that the regime has imposed segregation that the regime has imposed segregation that the regime has imposed upon them with all these years now in upon them with all these years now in upon them with all these years now in terms of what it represents terms of what it represents terms of what it represents as I pointed out one is the question of as I pointed out one is the question of as I pointed out one is the question of the whole series of one might say civil the whole series of one might say civil the whole series of one might say civil and legal and legal and legal uh discriminations against women uh discriminations against women uh discriminations against women you are considered as a kind of a second you are considered as a kind of a second you are considered as a kind of a second class citizen class citizen class citizen you depend on your men there's a kind of you depend on your men there's a kind of you depend on your men there's a kind of a a a patriarchy that has been patriarchy that has been patriarchy that has been institutionalized in the Islamic institutionalized in the Islamic institutionalized in the Islamic Republic in a very profound fashion Republic in a very profound fashion Republic in a very profound fashion and that means that uh probably and that means that uh probably and that means that uh probably in matters of divorce uh marriage and in matters of divorce uh marriage and in matters of divorce uh marriage and divorce in matters of custody of your divorce in matters of custody of your divorce in matters of custody of your children a matter of inheritance in children a matter of inheritance in children a matter of inheritance in matter of freedom of movement you depend matter of freedom of movement you depend matter of freedom of movement you depend on your husband your father your brother on your husband your father your brother on your husband your father your brother a male member of your family your child a male member of your family your child a male member of your family your child even your your son could could be the even your your son could could be the even your your son could could be the case and because of that obviously a

case and because of that obviously a case and because of that obviously a younger generation who is so well younger generation who is so well younger generation who is so well informed through social media knows informed through social media knows informed through social media knows about the world as much as an American about the world as much as an American about the world as much as an American does American kid that's probably does American kid that's probably does American kid that's probably sometimes more they're very very curious sometimes more they're very very curious sometimes more they're very very curious it's from what I hear or sometimes that it's from what I hear or sometimes that it's from what I hear or sometimes that I met a few of them outside Iran you'll I met a few of them outside Iran you'll I met a few of them outside Iran you'll see that Hadith this a new generation is see that Hadith this a new generation is see that Hadith this a new generation is completely different from what the completely different from what the completely different from what the Islamic Republic wanted to create in its Islamic Republic wanted to create in its Islamic Republic wanted to create in its social engineering it's basically the social engineering it's basically the social engineering it's basically the failure of 43 years of the Islamic failure of 43 years of the Islamic failure of 43 years of the Islamic Republic's acts of imposition of a Republic's acts of imposition of a Republic's acts of imposition of a certain as so-called Islamic values on certain as so-called Islamic values on certain as so-called Islamic values on on women then it's a matter of Education on women then it's a matter of Education on women then it's a matter of Education you would see that there is segregation you would see that there is segregation you would see that there is segregation in the schools in the schools in the schools one of the issues that now right now is one of the issues that now right now is one of the issues that now right now is at the heart of this demonstrations is at the heart of this demonstrations is at the heart of this demonstrations is that self-services in many of the that self-services in many of the that self-services in many of the campuses of Iranian universities are campuses of Iranian universities are campuses of Iranian universities are segregated male and female to different segregated male and female to different segregated male and female to different rooms to different Halls now they are rooms to different Halls now they are rooms to different Halls now they are breaking through the walls virtually breaking through the walls virtually breaking through the walls virtually everywhere and sit together everywhere and sit together everywhere and sit together in order to basically in order to basically in order to basically resist the authorities wants to impose resist the authorities wants to impose resist the authorities wants to impose segregation in matters of segregation in matters of segregation in matters of appearance in the public of course it appearance in the public of course it appearance in the public of course it may seem to us as a kind of trivial and

may seem to us as a kind of trivial and may seem to us as a kind of trivial and secondary but appearance is important secondary but appearance is important secondary but appearance is important clothing is important how you would clothing is important how you would clothing is important how you would imagine yourself is important they don't imagine yourself is important they don't imagine yourself is important they don't want to be seen in the way that the want to be seen in the way that the want to be seen in the way that the authorities would like to impose upon authorities would like to impose upon authorities would like to impose upon them as this kind of an idea of a chaste them as this kind of an idea of a chaste them as this kind of an idea of a chaste Islamic woman who is fully covered and Islamic woman who is fully covered and Islamic woman who is fully covered and is fully protected the idea of a male is fully protected the idea of a male is fully protected the idea of a male member of the family protects the female member of the family protects the female member of the family protects the female that is what you see at the heart of that is what you see at the heart of that is what you see at the heart of this uh rebellion and of course that this uh rebellion and of course that this uh rebellion and of course that goes with everything as the second part goes with everything as the second part goes with everything as the second part of this message the idea of life of this message the idea of life of this message the idea of life basically means if you like to use the basically means if you like to use the basically means if you like to use the American equivalent of this pursuit of American equivalent of this pursuit of American equivalent of this pursuit of the happiness that's what they want they the happiness that's what they want they the happiness that's what they want they want fun they want music they want want fun they want music they want want fun they want music they want dancing they want to be free in the dancing they want to be free in the dancing they want to be free in the street they want to have girl boyfriends street they want to have girl boyfriends street they want to have girl boyfriends and live freely and don't be constantly and live freely and don't be constantly and live freely and don't be constantly looked by the big brother to tell them looked by the big brother to tell them looked by the big brother to tell them what to do what to do what to do and not to do or or not to do so that is and not to do or or not to do so that is and not to do or or not to do so that is you that they share with virtually with you that they share with virtually with you that they share with virtually with the entire the entire the entire with the entire Iranian society as of with the entire Iranian society as of with the entire Iranian society as of all although the older Generations all although the older Generations all although the older Generations that's a big puzzle but you would see that's a big puzzle but you would see that's a big puzzle but you would see that the older generation don't so far that the older generation don't so far that the older generation don't so far at least don't take part at least don't take part at least don't take part as extensively as one might imagine and as extensively as one might imagine and as extensively as one might imagine and this is a variety of reasons perhaps you

this is a variety of reasons perhaps you this is a variety of reasons perhaps you can get to that later on if you like but can get to that later on if you like but can get to that later on if you like but as far as this younger generation they as far as this younger generation they as far as this younger generation they don't care they don't listen even as don't care they don't listen even as don't care they don't listen even as much to their parents as the older much to their parents as the older much to their parents as the older Generations did so all the or one might Generations did so all the or one might Generations did so all the or one might say even the nature of the relationship say even the nature of the relationship say even the nature of the relationship between the parents and the youth has between the parents and the youth has between the parents and the youth has changed it's not the concept of again a changed it's not the concept of again a changed it's not the concept of again a major a patriarchy that a father or even major a patriarchy that a father or even major a patriarchy that a father or even a mother a mother a mother would tell the daughter or son what to would tell the daughter or son what to would tell the daughter or son what to do because basically they have to do because basically they have to do because basically they have to negotiate it's fundamentally a rejection negotiate it's fundamentally a rejection negotiate it's fundamentally a rejection of the power of authority parents of the power of authority parents of the power of authority parents government yeah it's that every person government yeah it's that every person government yeah it's that every person can decide their own fate and there's no can decide their own fate and there's no can decide their own fate and there's no uh lessening of value of the wisdom of uh lessening of value of the wisdom of uh lessening of value of the wisdom of old age and old institutions precisely old age and old institutions precisely old age and old institutions precisely that's what it is yeah and that's what it is yeah and that's what it is yeah and they are surprisingly aware they are surprisingly aware they are surprisingly aware that where they are as a generation so that where they are as a generation so that where they are as a generation so it's a sense of a pride as we are it's a sense of a pride as we are it's a sense of a pride as we are different from the older generation from different from the older generation from different from the older generation from your parents to compromised and lived your parents to compromised and lived your parents to compromised and lived with the restrictions that the Islamic with the restrictions that the Islamic with the restrictions that the Islamic regime put on you your grandfather your regime put on you your grandfather your regime put on you your grandfather your their grandparents with the generation their grandparents with the generation their grandparents with the generation that actually involved in the revolution that actually involved in the revolution that actually involved in the revolution of 79 of 79 of 79 the parents which were the middle the parents which were the middle the parents which were the middle generation generation generation and these are the third generation of and these are the third generation of and these are the third generation of the the revolution of 1979 and therefore

the the revolution of 1979 and therefore the the revolution of 1979 and therefore they differentiate themselves in terms they differentiate themselves in terms they differentiate themselves in terms of their identity from the older of their identity from the older of their identity from the older generation generation generation so that's the life part of it everyone so that's the life part of it everyone so that's the life part of it everyone can go more and more they want to access can go more and more they want to access can go more and more they want to access and they see on social media what and they see on social media what and they see on social media what happens in the rest of the world they're happens in the rest of the world they're happens in the rest of the world they're well aware there are much better well aware there are much better well aware there are much better digitally digitally digitally skilled than my generation for instance skilled than my generation for instance skilled than my generation for instance uh and and they know about all the uh and and they know about all the uh and and they know about all the personalities they know about all the personalities they know about all the personalities they know about all the celebrities they know about all the celebrities they know about all the celebrities they know about all the trends that goes at outside Iran so trends that goes at outside Iran so trends that goes at outside Iran so that's a second part of this message and that's a second part of this message and that's a second part of this message and then of course the third part is the then of course the third part is the then of course the third part is the word Azadi meaning Freedom or Liberty word Azadi meaning Freedom or Liberty word Azadi meaning Freedom or Liberty which is this long which is this long which is this long standing demand of the standing demand of the standing demand of the Iranians I would say for the whole Iranians I would say for the whole Iranians I would say for the whole Century ever since the Constitutional Century ever since the Constitutional Century ever since the Constitutional revolution of 1906 Iran has witnessed revolution of 1906 Iran has witnessed revolution of 1906 Iran has witnessed this problem this problem this problem of uh authorities that usually emerged of uh authorities that usually emerged of uh authorities that usually emerged at the end of a revolution at the end of a revolution at the end of a revolution to basically impose its own image on the to basically impose its own image on the to basically impose its own image on the population and the youth and create population and the youth and create population and the youth and create authoritarian regimes of which over the authoritarian regimes of which over the authoritarian regimes of which over the course of time course of time course of time I would say that the Islamic Republic is I would say that the Islamic Republic is I would say that the Islamic Republic is divorced in the sense that it's divorced in the sense that it's divorced in the sense that it's uh its intrusion is not only in the uh its intrusion is not only in the uh its intrusion is not only in the political sense in the for instance

political sense in the for instance political sense in the for instance Banning the freedom of speech you know Banning the freedom of speech you know Banning the freedom of speech you know meddling with the meddling with the meddling with the elections uh Banning political parties elections uh Banning political parties elections uh Banning political parties all kinds of that things which are the all kinds of that things which are the all kinds of that things which are the political or civil freedoms but it's political or civil freedoms but it's political or civil freedoms but it's intrusion into the personal life of the intrusion into the personal life of the intrusion into the personal life of the individual individual individual which is the worst kind in a sense as which is the worst kind in a sense as which is the worst kind in a sense as you would see that there is always that you would see that there is always that you would see that there is always that Authority that basically uh dominates Authority that basically uh dominates Authority that basically uh dominates your life or monitors their life so I I your life or monitors their life so I I your life or monitors their life so I I and they do it in a kind of a very and they do it in a kind of a very and they do it in a kind of a very consistent fashion which makes this idea consistent fashion which makes this idea consistent fashion which makes this idea of Freedom so important as as part of of Freedom so important as as part of of Freedom so important as as part of the message of this new movement the message of this new movement the message of this new movement um you would see that in today's Iran um you would see that in today's Iran um you would see that in today's Iran there are no independent political there are no independent political there are no independent political parties parties parties there is very little there is very little there is very little uh probably freedom of the press I uh probably freedom of the press I uh probably freedom of the press I wouldn't say that it's entirely gone but wouldn't say that it's entirely gone but wouldn't say that it's entirely gone but it's fairly it's fairly it's fairly limited there is enormous amount of limited there is enormous amount of limited there is enormous amount of propaganda machine which dominates the propaganda machine which dominates the propaganda machine which dominates the entire uh uh radio and TV system in Iran entire uh uh radio and TV system in Iran entire uh uh radio and TV system in Iran it's completely in the hands of the it's completely in the hands of the it's completely in the hands of the government government government and of course you would see this variety and of course you would see this variety and of course you would see this variety of other tools of other tools of other tools for trying to indoctrinate for trying to indoctrinate for trying to indoctrinate uh uh uh Iranian population across the board so Iranian population across the board so Iranian population across the board so that's another sign of this kind of a that's another sign of this kind of a that's another sign of this kind of a sense of uh sense of being a totally

sense of uh sense of being a totally sense of uh sense of being a totally left out you're not belonging to to left out you're not belonging to to left out you're not belonging to to what's going on in terms of power what's going on in terms of power what's going on in terms of power empowerment and disempowerment so that's empowerment and disempowerment so that's empowerment and disempowerment so that's that's the situation as far as the idea that's the situation as far as the idea that's the situation as far as the idea of a freedom if it's concept and there's of a freedom if it's concept and there's of a freedom if it's concept and there's three somewhat miraculously and perhaps three somewhat miraculously and perhaps three somewhat miraculously and perhaps unintentionally unintentionally unintentionally and the three parts of this message uh and the three parts of this message uh and the three parts of this message uh complements each other because perhaps complements each other because perhaps complements each other because perhaps for the first time we see that women are for the first time we see that women are for the first time we see that women are in the Forefront of a of a movement I in the Forefront of a of a movement I in the Forefront of a of a movement I hesitate to say Revolution because I'm hesitate to say Revolution because I'm hesitate to say Revolution because I'm not particularly happy with the not particularly happy with the not particularly happy with the religious religious religious revolutions worldwide and in Iran have revolutions worldwide and in Iran have revolutions worldwide and in Iran have always been so miserable in terms of always been so miserable in terms of always been so miserable in terms of their outcome that we have to be careful their outcome that we have to be careful their outcome that we have to be careful not to use the word yes the revolution not to use the word yes the revolution not to use the word yes the revolution yeah so that's where where it stands now yeah so that's where where it stands now yeah so that's where where it stands now and the regime was thinking that well and the regime was thinking that well and the regime was thinking that well these are kids these are kids these are kids uh they're going to go away and they're uh they're going to go away and they're uh they're going to go away and they're of course they're completely of course they're completely of course they're completely conspiratorial in their thinking conspiratorial in their thinking conspiratorial in their thinking they constantly think that these are all they constantly think that these are all they constantly think that these are all the uh instigations and provocations of the uh instigations and provocations of the uh instigations and provocations of foreign powers these are the great Satan foreign powers these are the great Satan foreign powers these are the great Satan the United States this is Israel or the United States this is Israel or the United States this is Israel or these are the it's actually the Supreme these are the it's actually the Supreme these are the it's actually the Supreme leaders that in so many wars his only leaders that in so many wars his only leaders that in so many wars his only response so far that he had in the first response so far that he had in the first response so far that he had in the first past six weeks with regard to this

past six weeks with regard to this past six weeks with regard to this demonstrations is that these are the demonstrations is that these are the demonstrations is that these are the children of the savac being the security children of the savac being the security children of the savac being the security forces of the shortest time that's 43 forces of the shortest time that's 43 forces of the shortest time that's 43 years later years later years later he claims that the children he claims that the children he claims that the children 7 16 17 years 20 years old 7 16 17 years 20 years old 7 16 17 years 20 years old kids in the street are the grandchildren kids in the street are the grandchildren kids in the street are the grandchildren or children of some imaginary or children of some imaginary or children of some imaginary survival of the short security so survival of the short security so survival of the short security so there's uh the idea is that these there's uh the idea is that these there's uh the idea is that these protests are internal protests are internal protests are internal and external and external and external salvatures so people trying to sabotage salvatures so people trying to sabotage salvatures so people trying to sabotage the government yes and and they are the government yes and and they are the government yes and and they are misled as far as they can go and then misled as far as they can go and then misled as far as they can go and then there's the great state in the United there's the great state in the United there's the great state in the United States and other places are uh States and other places are uh States and other places are uh controlling controlling controlling sort of uh either controlling the sort of uh either controlling the sort of uh either controlling the narrative feeding propaganda or narrative feeding propaganda or narrative feeding propaganda or literally uh sending people I noticed literally uh sending people I noticed literally uh sending people I noticed that they have I don't think even they that they have I don't think even they that they have I don't think even they have that kind of imagination have that kind of imagination have that kind of imagination precise to say what you have said yeah precise to say what you have said yeah precise to say what you have said yeah that they would say that they're that they would say that they're that they would say that they're controlling the narrative they basically controlling the narrative they basically controlling the narrative they basically say no these are agents yeah of of the say no these are agents yeah of of the say no these are agents yeah of of the foreign powers and their families are foreign powers and their families are foreign powers and their families are all sold out and they are basically lost all sold out and they are basically lost all sold out and they are basically lost their loyalties to the great Islamic their loyalties to the great Islamic their loyalties to the great Islamic Republic and therefore they can be Republic and therefore they can be Republic and therefore they can be treated so brutally they can be treated so brutally they can be treated so brutally they can be suppressed or brutally which I haven't

suppressed or brutally which I haven't suppressed or brutally which I haven't actually said what they are doing actually said what they are doing actually said what they are doing because I thought perhaps first we because I thought perhaps first we because I thought perhaps first we should talk about who these kids are in should talk about who these kids are in should talk about who these kids are in the streets before we move on in the the streets before we move on in the the streets before we move on in the about the response of the government but about the response of the government but about the response of the government but one major factor which seems to add to one major factor which seems to add to one major factor which seems to add to the anxiety the anxiety the anxiety of well the regime is extremely anxious of well the regime is extremely anxious of well the regime is extremely anxious now because they are in a position and now because they are in a position and now because they are in a position and it shows that they don't have the lack it shows that they don't have the lack it shows that they don't have the lack of confidence in a sense that they would of confidence in a sense that they would of confidence in a sense that they would see them reacting in a very forceful way see them reacting in a very forceful way see them reacting in a very forceful way because basically they don't seem to because basically they don't seem to because basically they don't seem to have that kind of a confidence to allow have that kind of a confidence to allow have that kind of a confidence to allow this uh this message or the movement to this uh this message or the movement to this uh this message or the movement to air to be aired but the one element air to be aired but the one element air to be aired but the one element which corresponds to that is that there which corresponds to that is that there which corresponds to that is that there is a is a is a expatriate population of Iranians expatriate population of Iranians expatriate population of Iranians worldwide worldwide worldwide they are probably now according to some they are probably now according to some they are probably now according to some estimates close to 4 million even more estimates close to 4 million even more estimates close to 4 million even more Iranians abroad and they're all over the Iranians abroad and they're all over the Iranians abroad and they're all over the world from Australia and New Zealand world from Australia and New Zealand world from Australia and New Zealand Japan Japan Japan Western Europe Western Europe Western Europe uh turkey and United States and Canada uh turkey and United States and Canada uh turkey and United States and Canada so just to give you one example last so just to give you one example last so just to give you one example last last Saturday last Saturday last Saturday there was a mass demonstrations in there was a mass demonstrations in there was a mass demonstrations in Berlin by the Iranians from Germany and Berlin by the Iranians from Germany and Berlin by the Iranians from Germany and all over Europe Western Europe all over Europe Western Europe all over Europe Western Europe and it was at least I think probably the and it was at least I think probably the and it was at least I think probably the conservative estimate was about hundred

conservative estimate was about hundred conservative estimate was about hundred thousand thousand thousand so hundred thousand Iranians showed up so hundred thousand Iranians showed up so hundred thousand Iranians showed up in Berlin demonstrating against the in Berlin demonstrating against the in Berlin demonstrating against the treatment of the uh women in Iran were treatment of the uh women in Iran were treatment of the uh women in Iran were the movement in Iran the movement in Iran the movement in Iran the government the government the government thinks obviously this must have been thinks obviously this must have been thinks obviously this must have been some some some instigation by foreign powers and they instigation by foreign powers and they instigation by foreign powers and they want to destroy Islamic Republic want to destroy Islamic Republic want to destroy Islamic Republic and not only that but the propaganda is and not only that but the propaganda is and not only that but the propaganda is kind of ridiculous because I listened kind of ridiculous because I listened kind of ridiculous because I listened actually to how they portrayed it in the actually to how they portrayed it in the actually to how they portrayed it in the newspapers I listened to the Iranian newspapers I listened to the Iranian newspapers I listened to the Iranian news that is officially controlled news that is officially controlled news that is officially controlled government control news government control news government control news and and in the papers there's much of and and in the papers there's much of and and in the papers there's much of the papers that are in the control of the papers that are in the control of the papers that are in the control of the government the government the government a one of them were actually the the a one of them were actually the the a one of them were actually the the major news program portrayed the major news program portrayed the major news program portrayed the demonstrations that 10 000 people demonstrations that 10 000 people demonstrations that 10 000 people showed up in Berlin and protested showed up in Berlin and protested showed up in Berlin and protested against the rising prices rising rates against the rising prices rising rates against the rising prices rising rates for gas and oil in Germany so that's how for gas and oil in Germany so that's how for gas and oil in Germany so that's how they mislead in a very rather just they mislead in a very rather just they mislead in a very rather just stupid fashion because stupid fashion because stupid fashion because probably 95 percent if not 100 percent probably 95 percent if not 100 percent probably 95 percent if not 100 percent of the Iranians are listening to Passion of the Iranians are listening to Passion of the Iranians are listening to Passion speaking media outside Iran so it's a speaking media outside Iran so it's a speaking media outside Iran so it's a BBC BBC BBC person there is Iran International there person there is Iran International there person there is Iran International there are at least five or six of them that's

are at least five or six of them that's are at least five or six of them that's probably really important to highlight probably really important to highlight probably really important to highlight that that that Iran is a very modern and tech savvy Iran is a very modern and tech savvy Iran is a very modern and tech savvy Nation Nation Nation not just the young people probably more not just the young people probably more not just the young people probably more than more than I feel sometimes when I than more than I feel sometimes when I than more than I feel sometimes when I compare myself to what they are doing compare myself to what they are doing compare myself to what they are doing yeah since 1979 the earlier years for a yeah since 1979 the earlier years for a yeah since 1979 the earlier years for a decade or two decade or two decade or two they tried in a very crude fashion to they tried in a very crude fashion to they tried in a very crude fashion to restrict and access to Media outside restrict and access to Media outside restrict and access to Media outside Iran and because this is all through Iran and because this is all through Iran and because this is all through dishes okay and satellite dishes are dishes okay and satellite dishes are dishes okay and satellite dishes are everywhere you know if you look at the everywhere you know if you look at the everywhere you know if you look at the uh you know uh you know uh you know buildings of either a small house small buildings of either a small house small buildings of either a small house small towns and villages in Iran there's towns and villages in Iran there's towns and villages in Iran there's always a a dish and they watch all kinds always a a dish and they watch all kinds always a a dish and they watch all kinds of things through this and particularly of things through this and particularly of things through this and particularly because of what's Happening Now they because of what's Happening Now they because of what's Happening Now they listen to all the news listen to all the news listen to all the news um uh broadcasts from all this media and um uh broadcasts from all this media and um uh broadcasts from all this media and they're extremely active they're extremely active they're extremely active they are they are they are um probably some of them even 24 hours um probably some of them even 24 hours um probably some of them even 24 hours or close very extensive coverage of or close very extensive coverage of or close very extensive coverage of every clip that comes through every clip that comes through every clip that comes through so what the government is doing now the so what the government is doing now the so what the government is doing now the Islamic Republic is that they restrict Islamic Republic is that they restrict Islamic Republic is that they restrict the entire internet the shutdown they the entire internet the shutdown they the entire internet the shutdown they shot at the internet but they cannot shot at the internet but they cannot shot at the internet but they cannot afford shutting the internet because afford shutting the internet because afford shutting the internet because much of the business much of the

much of the business much of the much of the business much of the everyday life much of the government everyday life much of the government everyday life much of the government Affairs depends on the internet like Affairs depends on the internet like Affairs depends on the internet like everywhere else and Iran is extremely if everywhere else and Iran is extremely if everywhere else and Iran is extremely if you if I hear from many of the you if I hear from many of the you if I hear from many of the colleagues and friends you know it's colleagues and friends you know it's colleagues and friends you know it's like in certain respects it's like like in certain respects it's like like in certain respects it's like Sweden where you go there there's no Sweden where you go there there's no Sweden where you go there there's no more currency and for a very good reason more currency and for a very good reason more currency and for a very good reason because there's so much inflation that because there's so much inflation that because there's so much inflation that that the banknotes are worthless in a that the banknotes are worthless in a that the banknotes are worthless in a sense so everything is true you know uh sense so everything is true you know uh sense so everything is true you know uh sweeping your card and that's the entire sweeping your card and that's the entire sweeping your card and that's the entire system is in a standstill because people system is in a standstill because people system is in a standstill because people cannot buy food they can you you go to cannot buy food they can you you go to cannot buy food they can you you go to the supermarket that's how you would do the supermarket that's how you would do the supermarket that's how you would do it you you order food to come to your it you you order food to come to your it you you order food to come to your house which Iranians at least the middle house which Iranians at least the middle house which Iranians at least the middle classes the more prosperously that classes the more prosperously that classes the more prosperously that Christ is doing all the time so they Christ is doing all the time so they Christ is doing all the time so they deliver everything and because of the deliver everything and because of the deliver everything and because of the covet it became even more and they have covet it became even more and they have covet it became even more and they have to pay all through this system to pay all through this system to pay all through this system um so what happens is that now they're um so what happens is that now they're um so what happens is that now they're estimating that every day 50 million estimating that every day 50 million estimating that every day 50 million dollars the Iranian government or the dollars the Iranian government or the dollars the Iranian government or the Iranian economy is losing because of Iranian economy is losing because of Iranian economy is losing because of slowing the internet plus the slowing the internet plus the slowing the internet plus the frustration is growing of course because frustration is growing of course because frustration is growing of course because you can't order food you can't order food you can't order food right I mean they are they are in touch right I mean they are they are in touch right I mean they are they are in touch with I mean WhatsApp yeah every Iranian

with I mean WhatsApp yeah every Iranian with I mean WhatsApp yeah every Iranian virtually every Iran yeah yeah that has virtually every Iran yeah yeah that has virtually every Iran yeah yeah that has the education and education in the sense the education and education in the sense the education and education in the sense that has gone through that has gone through that has gone through the the high schools and universities the the high schools and universities the the high schools and universities knows how to use the WhatsApp so there's knows how to use the WhatsApp so there's knows how to use the WhatsApp so there's a big middle class like you said secular a big middle class like you said secular a big middle class like you said secular class in Iran and there there's a lot of class in Iran and there there's a lot of class in Iran and there there's a lot of at least capacity for if not Revolution at least capacity for if not Revolution at least capacity for if not Revolution then then then um um um political ideological political ideological political ideological uh uh uh turmoil and a huge amount of hatred turmoil and a huge amount of hatred turmoil and a huge amount of hatred so the hatred is grown yes hatred of the so the hatred is grown yes hatred of the so the hatred is grown yes hatred of the of the policies of the policies of the policies of the regime of isolation that's a huge of the regime of isolation that's a huge of the regime of isolation that's a huge point that you hear a great deal about point that you hear a great deal about point that you hear a great deal about that we don't want to be isolated we that we don't want to be isolated we that we don't want to be isolated we don't want to be humiliated Iran is not don't want to be humiliated Iran is not don't want to be humiliated Iran is not about about about this this miserable regime that is this this miserable regime that is this this miserable regime that is ruling over us ruling over us ruling over us we have a great culture so there's this we have a great culture so there's this we have a great culture so there's this sense of a pride in their own culture sense of a pride in their own culture sense of a pride in their own culture some of it's uh you know Islamic some of some of it's uh you know Islamic some of some of it's uh you know Islamic some of it pre-islamic so they there is a huge it pre-islamic so they there is a huge it pre-islamic so they there is a huge um a sense of a pride in that and they um a sense of a pride in that and they um a sense of a pride in that and they see that they cannot communicate with see that they cannot communicate with see that they cannot communicate with the outside world they they want to the outside world they they want to the outside world they they want to travel abroad which they do I mean for travel abroad which they do I mean for travel abroad which they do I mean for one thing the Iranian regime never one thing the Iranian regime never one thing the Iranian regime never actually actually actually for majority of the population never put

for majority of the population never put for majority of the population never put restrictions it's not like Soviet Union restrictions it's not like Soviet Union restrictions it's not like Soviet Union where you have to have a you used to where you have to have a you used to where you have to have a you used to have a permission to move from one place have a permission to move from one place have a permission to move from one place to another and then of course the the to another and then of course the the to another and then of course the the Islamic regime since 1979 basically I Islamic regime since 1979 basically I Islamic regime since 1979 basically I chased away or destroyed the old middle chased away or destroyed the old middle chased away or destroyed the old middle class that's my generation basically my class that's my generation basically my class that's my generation basically my parents here they say these are the parents here they say these are the parents here they say these are the secular middle class of the parliamiera secular middle class of the parliamiera secular middle class of the parliamiera in the hope that they can do this social in the hope that they can do this social in the hope that they can do this social engineering and create this Islamic engineering and create this Islamic engineering and create this Islamic uh uh Society of Their Own the bad news uh uh Society of Their Own the bad news uh uh Society of Their Own the bad news for them was that that didn't happen and for them was that that didn't happen and for them was that that didn't happen and that memory that memory that memory persisted and the middle class that was persisted and the middle class that was persisted and the middle class that was created since past 40 years created since past 40 years created since past 40 years is much larger in size is much larger in size is much larger in size than what it was because there was of than what it was because there was of than what it was because there was of course the demographic Revolution that's course the demographic Revolution that's course the demographic Revolution that's the way the way the way there's a very Foundation of it it's the there's a very Foundation of it it's the there's a very Foundation of it it's the demographic Revolution demographic Revolution demographic Revolution population in Iran I've written an population in Iran I've written an population in Iran I've written an article about it actually article about it actually article about it actually a population in Iran since uh the turn a population in Iran since uh the turn a population in Iran since uh the turn of the century last century the 20th of the century last century the 20th of the century last century the 20th century population of Iran was about 9 century population of Iran was about 9 century population of Iran was about 9 million or so million or so million or so it's now 83 million it's now 83 million it's now 83 million and that is since 1979 the population and that is since 1979 the population and that is since 1979 the population was 35 million between the past 40 years was 35 million between the past 40 years was 35 million between the past 40 years it's basically doubled so it's 83

it's basically doubled so it's 83 it's basically doubled so it's 83 million although million although million although one of the great successes I don't want one of the great successes I don't want one of the great successes I don't want to bore you with the details about the to bore you with the details about the to bore you with the details about the Democracy but it's important Democracy but it's important Democracy but it's important demographics is not important you will demographics is not important you will demographics is not important you will you can see that the best rate was very you can see that the best rate was very you can see that the best rate was very high otherwise you wouldn't have double high otherwise you wouldn't have double high otherwise you wouldn't have double your population in matter of four your population in matter of four your population in matter of four decades yeah but Iranians because of the decades yeah but Iranians because of the decades yeah but Iranians because of the urban urban urban shift to an urban population because of shift to an urban population because of shift to an urban population because of the growth of the middle class because the growth of the middle class because the growth of the middle class because of the education of the education of the education they basically the pattern of the uh of they basically the pattern of the uh of they basically the pattern of the uh of growth population growth changed Iran growth population growth changed Iran growth population growth changed Iran used to be used to be used to be 2.8 or 3 percent birth rate in around 2.8 or 3 percent birth rate in around 2.8 or 3 percent birth rate in around 1980s I would say 1970s 1980s now 1980s I would say 1970s 1980s now 1980s I would say 1970s 1980s now it is 1.1 it is 1.1 it is 1.1 and it's what probably the most and it's what probably the most and it's what probably the most successful country in the Middle East in successful country in the Middle East in successful country in the Middle East in terms of the population control despite terms of the population control despite terms of the population control despite the government the government the government a consistent uh attempt to try to a consistent uh attempt to try to a consistent uh attempt to try to encourage people to have more kids encourage people to have more kids encourage people to have more kids middle class refuses to do that and this middle class refuses to do that and this middle class refuses to do that and this is the middle class not only anymore in is the middle class not only anymore in is the middle class not only anymore in the capital the capital the capital but this is very smaller towns and but this is very smaller towns and but this is very smaller towns and cities places that used to be villages cities places that used to be villages cities places that used to be villages now you look at them they have a decent

now you look at them they have a decent now you look at them they have a decent population 50 000 100 population 50 000 100 population 50 000 100 000 and they live in urban life and they 000 and they live in urban life and they 000 and they live in urban life and they don't want to be don't want to be don't want to be subjected to that old pattern of subjected to that old pattern of subjected to that old pattern of agrarian society when you had 10 agrarian society when you had 10 agrarian society when you had 10 children or eight children and of course children or eight children and of course children or eight children and of course it's a much more advanced in terms of uh it's a much more advanced in terms of uh it's a much more advanced in terms of uh in terms of health and medicine so you in terms of health and medicine so you in terms of health and medicine so you don't at least lose children as they don't at least lose children as they don't at least lose children as they used to the antibiotics there's always used to the antibiotics there's always used to the antibiotics there's always of of of kids to survive and therefore if you kids to survive and therefore if you kids to survive and therefore if you have 10 kids you're sick with 10 kids have 10 kids you're sick with 10 kids have 10 kids you're sick with 10 kids you don't end up with four as it used to you don't end up with four as it used to you don't end up with four as it used to be in the past be in the past be in the past six of them would have died in the in six of them would have died in the in six of them would have died in the in the after the age of five actually but the after the age of five actually but the after the age of five actually but now because of that you see that this now because of that you see that this now because of that you see that this Urban population in the cities have Urban population in the cities have Urban population in the cities have completely different demands completely different demands completely different demands and of course the education is important and of course the education is important and of course the education is important that's another area of how the social that's another area of how the social that's another area of how the social engineering of the Islamic Republic went engineering of the Islamic Republic went engineering of the Islamic Republic went away because they were thinking that you away because they were thinking that you away because they were thinking that you know the growth of the population the know the growth of the population the know the growth of the population the growth of the educated higher educated growth of the educated higher educated growth of the educated higher educated middle classes in their benefit or they middle classes in their benefit or they middle classes in their benefit or they could not even control it in a sense now could not even control it in a sense now could not even control it in a sense now Iran in my time uh probably had Iran in my time uh probably had Iran in my time uh probably had in the in the in the 1970s probably by the type of the 1970s probably by the type of the 1970s probably by the type of the Revolution about 10 12 universities

Revolution about 10 12 universities Revolution about 10 12 universities now it has 56 universities all across now it has 56 universities all across now it has 56 universities all across the country the country the country and there is a something referred to as and there is a something referred to as and there is a something referred to as the Free University or that the Free University or that the Free University or that which has campuses all over the country which has campuses all over the country which has campuses all over the country it has 324 campuses all around Iran it has 324 campuses all around Iran it has 324 campuses all around Iran what does that mean what does that mean what does that mean in many respects this youth in many respects this youth in many respects this youth that are brought up in these families that are brought up in these families that are brought up in these families even in a small towns in very even in a small towns in very even in a small towns in very traditional families and families that traditional families and families that traditional families and families that belong to that kind of a more religious belong to that kind of a more religious belong to that kind of a more religious the loyal to the clergy or to the the loyal to the clergy or to the the loyal to the clergy or to the clerical classes clerical classes clerical classes their children their children their children can now move on which particularly women can now move on which particularly women can now move on which particularly women because in in my times it would have because in in my times it would have because in in my times it would have been unheard of that you would have a been unheard of that you would have a been unheard of that you would have a young woman of 18 or 17 18 19 young woman of 18 or 17 18 19 young woman of 18 or 17 18 19 from a traditional City such as for from a traditional City such as for from a traditional City such as for instance Yaz or in in in instance Yaz or in in in instance Yaz or in in in statistan Iran statistan Iran statistan Iran to move on elsewhere for Education as to move on elsewhere for Education as to move on elsewhere for Education as you do in this country okay now it's you do in this country okay now it's you do in this country okay now it's completely accepted completely accepted completely accepted that a woman that a woman that a woman wears their job because he's forced to wears their job because he's forced to wears their job because he's forced to wear a job wear a job wear a job to go to a university completely on the to go to a university completely on the to go to a university completely on the other side of the country other side of the country other side of the country and this movement of the population and this movement of the population and this movement of the population not only because of the universities but

not only because of the universities but not only because of the universities but in general in general in general if you now visit Iran if you now visit Iran if you now visit Iran you hear accents local accents you hear accents local accents you hear accents local accents provincial accents all over the country provincial accents all over the country provincial accents all over the country that is a azerbaijani Turkish accent that is a azerbaijani Turkish accent that is a azerbaijani Turkish accent from the north from the north from the north west of the country you can hear it in west of the country you can hear it in west of the country you can hear it in the forest province in the South and the forest province in the South and the forest province in the South and vice versa vice versa vice versa so so so and Kurdish for instance or even more and Kurdish for instance or even more and Kurdish for instance or even more marginal regions such as system province marginal regions such as system province marginal regions such as system province in the southeast of Iran which has been in the southeast of Iran which has been in the southeast of Iran which has been the subject of this recent Massacre when the subject of this recent Massacre when the subject of this recent Massacre when they actually attacked the population they actually attacked the population they actually attacked the population when demonstrating and killed a fair when demonstrating and killed a fair when demonstrating and killed a fair number at least 60 people number at least 60 people number at least 60 people so this movement of the population so this movement of the population so this movement of the population this creation of a larger middle class this creation of a larger middle class this creation of a larger middle class the better educated middle class much the better educated middle class much the better educated middle class much better educated Iran has 86 percent uh better educated Iran has 86 percent uh better educated Iran has 86 percent uh uh literacy uh literacy uh literacy which I think probably I haven't checked which I think probably I haven't checked which I think probably I haven't checked that but probably is better than turkey that but probably is better than turkey that but probably is better than turkey even even even is probably better than anywhere else in is probably better than anywhere else in is probably better than anywhere else in the Middle East and it sounds like the Middle East and it sounds like the Middle East and it sounds like there's a that's quickly increasing so there's a that's quickly increasing so there's a that's quickly increasing so because because of the movement because because because of the movement because because because of the movement because of the growth that the education system of the growth that the education system of the growth that the education system that's precisely Iran has one million that's precisely Iran has one million that's precisely Iran has one million School teachers School teachers School teachers which may not seem as much if you are in which may not seem as much if you are in which may not seem as much if you are in the United States but it's a fairly big the United States but it's a fairly big the United States but it's a fairly big number actually can you Linger on the

number actually can you Linger on the number actually can you Linger on the massacre what happened there well the massacre what happened there well the massacre what happened there well the system province is the baluch uh system province is the baluch uh system province is the baluch uh ethnicity of paluchi ethnicity baluchi ethnicity of paluchi ethnicity baluchi ethnicity of paluchi ethnicity baluchi is a is a is a particular ethnic group in southern Iran particular ethnic group in southern Iran particular ethnic group in southern Iran which is certainly rather than she which is certainly rather than she which is certainly rather than she majority and we should say that most of majority and we should say that most of majority and we should say that most of Iran is she another that's a branch of Iran is she another that's a branch of Iran is she another that's a branch of Islam yes let's maybe just briefly Islam yes let's maybe just briefly Islam yes let's maybe just briefly linger sheasm and and Sunni what just linger sheasm and and Sunni what just linger sheasm and and Sunni what just let's not get into it let's do a one let's not get into it let's do a one let's not get into it let's do a one sentence summary uh and that maybe which sentence summary uh and that maybe which sentence summary uh and that maybe which which is what most of Iran is majority which is what most of Iran is majority which is what most of Iran is majority of the population of the Muslim world of the population of the Muslim world of the population of the Muslim world are sunnis are sunnis are sunnis that is a mainstream if you like to call that is a mainstream if you like to call that is a mainstream if you like to call that actually means that kind of a that actually means that kind of a that actually means that kind of a Ministry Ministry Ministry can you actually Linger on the the Sunni can you actually Linger on the the Sunni can you actually Linger on the the Sunni Suna Suna Suna she she uh she means a party means those she she uh she means a party means those she she uh she means a party means those that belongs to a party of Ali which was that belongs to a party of Ali which was that belongs to a party of Ali which was goes back to the early Islamic history goes back to the early Islamic history goes back to the early Islamic history of 7th Century I mean I'm almost of 7th Century I mean I'm almost of 7th Century I mean I'm almost lingering to the silly notion of lingering to the silly notion of lingering to the silly notion of pronunciation and stuff like that so ah pronunciation and stuff like that so ah pronunciation and stuff like that so ah yeah means part like what what is the yeah means part like what what is the yeah means part like what what is the extra eye at the end yeah she e means extra eye at the end yeah she e means extra eye at the end yeah she e means belonging to this community yeah Shia belonging to this community yeah Shia belonging to this community yeah Shia means a person

yes yeah and she is the community yes yeah and she is the community community and in English when it was community and in English when it was community and in English when it was anglicized it becomes Shiite so if you anglicized it becomes Shiite so if you anglicized it becomes Shiite so if you say Shiite in today it's perfectly say Shiite in today it's perfectly say Shiite in today it's perfectly acceptable and of course I myself in my acceptable and of course I myself in my acceptable and of course I myself in my writings I always writings I always writings I always switch between one and the other one of switch between one and the other one of switch between one and the other one of my books is always Shiite the other book my books is always Shiite the other book my books is always Shiite the other book is always she and that hasn't been is always she and that hasn't been is always she and that hasn't been settled but the she population is the settled but the she population is the settled but the she population is the smaller compared to the Sunni population smaller compared to the Sunni population smaller compared to the Sunni population in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world in the world but in Iran is the opposite the Iran and but in Iran is the opposite the Iran and but in Iran is the opposite the Iran and Iraq and possibly not Lebanon are the Iraq and possibly not Lebanon are the Iraq and possibly not Lebanon are the three countries who barely Iraq and three countries who barely Iraq and three countries who barely Iraq and Lebanon have barely majority population Lebanon have barely majority population Lebanon have barely majority population whereas Iran is a large population due whereas Iran is a large population due whereas Iran is a large population due to its history of conversion to shizen to its history of conversion to shizen to its history of conversion to shizen that by itself is another story but that by itself is another story but that by itself is another story but in the sense that the the way that in the sense that the the way that in the sense that the the way that historically it evolved the center historically it evolved the center historically it evolved the center became more she became more she became more she and the peripheries remained certainly and the peripheries remained certainly and the peripheries remained certainly so you have communities of the baluch in so you have communities of the baluch in so you have communities of the baluch in the south east the south east the south east we have the Kurds a large portion of the we have the Kurds a large portion of the we have the Kurds a large portion of the Kurds our sunnies Kurds our sunnies Kurds our sunnies they have cheese as well then they have they have cheese as well then they have they have cheese as well then they have the indigenous religion of their own the indigenous religion of their own the indigenous religion of their own ideal uh what's called which is the ideal uh what's called which is the ideal uh what's called which is the religion of indigenous to Kurdistan

religion of indigenous to Kurdistan religion of indigenous to Kurdistan there are two commands in the north east there are two commands in the north east there are two commands in the north east of Iran who are also Chinese the other of Iran who are also Chinese the other of Iran who are also Chinese the other communities the horizontal region in the communities the horizontal region in the communities the horizontal region in the in the peripherals of Afghanistan they in the peripherals of Afghanistan they in the peripherals of Afghanistan they are also Chinese and you have some Arab are also Chinese and you have some Arab are also Chinese and you have some Arab population Arab speaking population in population Arab speaking population in population Arab speaking population in the rosestan province in the southwest the rosestan province in the southwest the rosestan province in the southwest of Iran which is also or across the of Iran which is also or across the of Iran which is also or across the Persian Gulf is there a lot of conflict Persian Gulf is there a lot of conflict Persian Gulf is there a lot of conflict between these regions and also like if I between these regions and also like if I between these regions and also like if I uh blindfolded you and dropped you off uh blindfolded you and dropped you off uh blindfolded you and dropped you off in one of the regions would you quickly in one of the regions would you quickly in one of the regions would you quickly recognize the region like by the food by recognize the region like by the food by recognize the region like by the food by the music by the accents by so on yeah the music by the accents by so on yeah the music by the accents by so on yeah the answer to your lovely question which the answer to your lovely question which the answer to your lovely question which I think I hope it would have happened to I think I hope it would have happened to I think I hope it would have happened to me is that yes you would see different me is that yes you would see different me is that yes you would see different cultures yes yeah but different food cultures yes yeah but different food cultures yes yeah but different food most important different accents yeah or most important different accents yeah or most important different accents yeah or different languages since they have different languages since they have different languages since they have dialects is a different language dialects is a different language dialects is a different language altogether altogether altogether but but but or so for that matter Kurdish which is or so for that matter Kurdish which is or so for that matter Kurdish which is closer to Persian because they are closer to Persian because they are closer to Persian because they are Indo-European languages Indo-European languages Indo-European languages but Turkish azeri Turkish which is but Turkish azeri Turkish which is but Turkish azeri Turkish which is probably closer to the Turkish of techie probably closer to the Turkish of techie probably closer to the Turkish of techie Republic of Turkey or to the Republic of Republic of Turkey or to the Republic of Republic of Turkey or to the Republic of Azerbaijan in the North Azerbaijan in the North Azerbaijan in the North they're the same basically actually if they're the same basically actually if they're the same basically actually if you would have looked as a fascinating you would have looked as a fascinating you would have looked as a fascinating picture if you have looked at the let's picture if you have looked at the let's picture if you have looked at the let's say even 19th century early 20th century

say even 19th century early 20th century say even 19th century early 20th century linguistic map of Iran would have been linguistic map of Iran would have been linguistic map of Iran would have been amazed amazed amazed in the number of dialects in the number in the number of dialects in the number in the number of dialects in the number of languages that has survived and this of languages that has survived and this of languages that has survived and this is an ancient country it's an ancient is an ancient country it's an ancient is an ancient country it's an ancient land land land and it's a lot of mountains all around and it's a lot of mountains all around and it's a lot of mountains all around it or big deserts so there's a sense of it or big deserts so there's a sense of it or big deserts so there's a sense of isolation so you would say here and isolation so you would say here and isolation so you would say here and there you see a different community that there you see a different community that there you see a different community that speaks differently all ancient speaks differently all ancient speaks differently all ancient traditions and languages yeah and traditions and languages yeah and traditions and languages yeah and because of the great number of invasions because of the great number of invasions because of the great number of invasions that Iran witnessed over that Iran witnessed over that Iran witnessed over more than two and a half millennia more than two and a half millennia more than two and a half millennia of course there are all kinds of of course there are all kinds of of course there are all kinds of cultures were introduced into Iran cultures were introduced into Iran cultures were introduced into Iran they're all ethnicities were introduced they're all ethnicities were introduced they're all ethnicities were introduced to Iran mostly coming from the north to Iran mostly coming from the north to Iran mostly coming from the north east of Iran from east of Iran from east of Iran from from the uh lowlands of Central Asia and from the uh lowlands of Central Asia and from the uh lowlands of Central Asia and Beyond and and continued into Iran Beyond and and continued into Iran Beyond and and continued into Iran proper so but now what has happened proper so but now what has happened proper so but now what has happened that's what my point that divided to that's what my point that divided to that's what my point that divided to make uh the century of modernity or make uh the century of modernity or make uh the century of modernity or modernization modernization modernization has produced has produced has produced a national culture of great great a national culture of great great a national culture of great great strength in a sense I would say I should strength in a sense I would say I should strength in a sense I would say I should ended my book ended my book ended my book um the the book on Iran Iran a mother in um the the book on Iran Iran a mother in um the the book on Iran Iran a mother in history uh basically saying that despite history uh basically saying that despite history uh basically saying that despite everything else that has created so much everything else that has created so much everything else that has created so much trouble for today's Iraq there is a trouble for today's Iraq there is a trouble for today's Iraq there is a sense of a cultural

sense of a cultural sense of a cultural uh identity that is very strong uh identity that is very strong uh identity that is very strong and I think and I think and I think I can say uh with with some confidence I can say uh with with some confidence I can say uh with with some confidence that despite this that despite this that despite this despite this regional identities that despite this regional identities that despite this regional identities that are still there and they're great and are still there and they're great and are still there and they're great and they should be celebrated they should be celebrated they should be celebrated uh this today if you go to uh to uh this today if you go to uh to uh this today if you go to uh to Kurdistan or if you go to Kurdistan or if you go to Kurdistan or if you go to sistan they all can speak Persian they sistan they all can speak Persian they sistan they all can speak Persian they all have an education in person so they all have an education in person so they all have an education in person so they all basically are becoming part of all basically are becoming part of all basically are becoming part of whether they like it whether they like whether they like it whether they like whether they like it whether they like the regime in power or not they have a the regime in power or not they have a the regime in power or not they have a sense of belonging to a culture and an sense of belonging to a culture and an sense of belonging to a culture and an identity with the center and of course identity with the center and of course identity with the center and of course the idea of a center versus periphery in the idea of a center versus periphery in the idea of a center versus periphery in Iran is very old it goes back to ancient Iran is very old it goes back to ancient Iran is very old it goes back to ancient times because even the name of the times because even the name of the times because even the name of the country was the guarded domains of Iran country was the guarded domains of Iran country was the guarded domains of Iran this is the this is the official name namely that it was recognized that this namely that it was recognized that this is not just one uh entity but it's the is not just one uh entity but it's the is not just one uh entity but it's the is the collection of entities like the is the collection of entities like the is the collection of entities like the United States of America exactly exactly United States of America exactly exactly United States of America exactly exactly but the United States of America in a but the United States of America in a but the United States of America in a sense you can say that it was a very sense you can say that it was a very sense you can say that it was a very successful well it remains to be seen successful well it remains to be seen successful well it remains to be seen how successful to be continued to be to

how successful to be continued to be to how successful to be continued to be to that that was basically invented created that that was basically invented created that that was basically invented created that you would have this sense of it in that you would have this sense of it in that you would have this sense of it in in the case of an old nature which has in the case of an old nature which has in the case of an old nature which has been on the map of the world for three been on the map of the world for three been on the map of the world for three thousand years 2500 years there's this thousand years 2500 years there's this thousand years 2500 years there's this is not an exaggeration I'm not a is not an exaggeration I'm not a is not an exaggeration I'm not a nationalist per se but I mean if you nationalist per se but I mean if you nationalist per se but I mean if you look Persia on the map of the word in look Persia on the map of the word in look Persia on the map of the word in ancient times is still there as it is ancient times is still there as it is ancient times is still there as it is today very few countries in the world today very few countries in the world today very few countries in the world are like that are like that are like that that they would have that kind of a that they would have that kind of a that they would have that kind of a continuity over a course of time and continuity over a course of time and continuity over a course of time and that's not without a reason because that's not without a reason because that's not without a reason because there was this sense of it a center there was this sense of it a center there was this sense of it a center versus periphery that had found some is versus periphery that had found some is versus periphery that had found some is it there's a huge amount of tension but it there's a huge amount of tension but it there's a huge amount of tension but there is also a sense of belonging to there is also a sense of belonging to there is also a sense of belonging to something and state is very much at the something and state is very much at the something and state is very much at the center of it I mean center of it I mean center of it I mean that's why the concept of a state that's why the concept of a state that's why the concept of a state matters for the creation for the shaping matters for the creation for the shaping matters for the creation for the shaping of of this culture what happened is of of this culture what happened is of of this culture what happened is therefore you can see that today in therefore you can see that today in therefore you can see that today in answer to your point about traveling answer to your point about traveling answer to your point about traveling blindfolded blindfolded blindfolded is that is that is that you would be surprised to see how much you would be surprised to see how much you would be surprised to see how much uh people share uh people share uh people share and in terms of I just give you one and in terms of I just give you one and in terms of I just give you one anecdote anecdote anecdote in 1968 I believe must have been 1968 I believe must have been I traveled to Azerbaijan I I used to

I traveled to Azerbaijan I I used to I traveled to Azerbaijan I I used to travel and actually photograph not travel and actually photograph not travel and actually photograph not blindfolded blindfolded blindfolded mostly well yeah so I went to a Bazaar in the city of hoi so I went to a Bazaar in the city of hoi which is in the North Western Iran uh on which is in the North Western Iran uh on which is in the North Western Iran uh on the border with what is today the the border with what is today the the border with what is today the Republic of Turkey Republic of Turkey Republic of Turkey and I went to the bazaar and I was and I went to the bazaar and I was and I went to the bazaar and I was interested in the kind of a leather work interested in the kind of a leather work interested in the kind of a leather work that they produce that they produce that they produce so I tried to buy some stuff and they so I tried to buy some stuff and they so I tried to buy some stuff and they were surprised to see that how few were surprised to see that how few were surprised to see that how few people knew Persia people knew Persia people knew Persia so they could not communicate in person so they could not communicate in person so they could not communicate in person with you either they have to ask with you either they have to ask with you either they have to ask somebody from some other store to come somebody from some other store to come somebody from some other store to come and translate for you and translate for you and translate for you this is 1968 96 so even though it's the this is 1968 96 so even though it's the this is 1968 96 so even though it's the official language was special of the official language was special of the official language was special of the country they're still yeah so what are country they're still yeah so what are country they're still yeah so what are they teach in school so it doesn't they teach in school so it doesn't they teach in school so it doesn't matter it was special but this guy just matter it was special but this guy just matter it was special but this guy just doesn't go to school he hasn't been to doesn't go to school he hasn't been to doesn't go to school he hasn't been to the school or it was not fully exposed the school or it was not fully exposed the school or it was not fully exposed to it and of course usually are very to it and of course usually are very to it and of course usually are very conservative places so it's stuck in my conservative places so it's stuck in my conservative places so it's stuck in my mind now in recently in 2004 I was mind now in recently in 2004 I was mind now in recently in 2004 I was traveling to the same area not to the traveling to the same area not to the traveling to the same area not to the same city but to the same area same city but to the same area same city but to the same area and I was amazed to see how the youth and I was amazed to see how the youth and I was amazed to see how the youth as soon as they would know that you were as soon as they would know that you were as soon as they would know that you were coming from somewhere else coming from somewhere else coming from somewhere else opening conversation with you talking

opening conversation with you talking opening conversation with you talking about the latest movies that was about the latest movies that was about the latest movies that was produced in the west and it's not only produced in the west and it's not only produced in the west and it's not only Hollywood of course there's a huge Hollywood of course there's a huge Hollywood of course there's a huge amount of fascination with Hollywood and amount of fascination with Hollywood and amount of fascination with Hollywood and Western cinema cinema is a major thing Western cinema cinema is a major thing Western cinema cinema is a major thing filmmaking is a major thing yeah so filmmaking is a major thing yeah so filmmaking is a major thing yeah so these kids in the city of Ahad were these kids in the city of Ahad were these kids in the city of Ahad were asking me we're having lunch they're asking me we're having lunch they're asking me we're having lunch they're asking me okay then what do you think asking me okay then what do you think asking me okay then what do you think about this producer not producer this about this producer not producer this about this producer not producer this director or that actor American American director or that actor American American director or that actor American American European as well but mostly America European as well but mostly America European as well but mostly America where they speak in Persian it's a where they speak in Persian it's a where they speak in Persian it's a complete person that I would converse complete person that I would converse complete person that I would converse with them if they speak English too with them if they speak English too with them if they speak English too interesting Yes actually you would be interesting Yes actually you would be interesting Yes actually you would be surprised to see what percentage of the surprised to see what percentage of the surprised to see what percentage of the Iranian youth at least in big cities are Iranian youth at least in big cities are Iranian youth at least in big cities are fascinated with learning language and fascinated with learning language and fascinated with learning language and for a reason because they think that's for a reason because they think that's for a reason because they think that's the way to get access either on social the way to get access either on social the way to get access either on social media or eventually leave it on yeah media or eventually leave it on yeah media or eventually leave it on yeah unfortunately and and because they don't unfortunately and and because they don't unfortunately and and because they don't see a future for themselves in the see a future for themselves in the see a future for themselves in the country either you have to be part of country either you have to be part of country either you have to be part of this this this part of this regime part of this regime part of this regime or if you hate them and you don't like or if you hate them and you don't like or if you hate them and you don't like the way of their life you look up the way of their life you look up the way of their life you look up outside you know I was having drivers to outside you know I was having drivers to outside you know I was having drivers to drive me around the country in the drive me around the country in the drive me around the country in the cities around Iran and the guy was a cities around Iran and the guy was a cities around Iran and the guy was a young extremely well educated young extremely well educated young extremely well educated well-dressed and we would have looked at well-dressed and we would have looked at well-dressed and we would have looked at him we could have found him in any him we could have found him in any him we could have found him in any Street in any country in the western

Street in any country in the western Street in any country in the western world and his major concern knowing that world and his major concern knowing that world and his major concern knowing that I'm from outside major concern is well I'm from outside major concern is well I'm from outside major concern is well tell me which would be a better place tell me which would be a better place tell me which would be a better place for me to go so what's wrong with the for me to go so what's wrong with the for me to go so what's wrong with the place that you're in right now you are place that you're in right now you are place that you're in right now you are in your own country you speak your own in your own country you speak your own in your own country you speak your own like oh this is no good like oh this is no good like oh this is no good I have to have a better future this I have to have a better future this I have to have a better future this year's no future for me well it's really year's no future for me well it's really year's no future for me well it's really interesting because the thing I feel interesting because the thing I feel interesting because the thing I feel about the protest right now about the protest right now about the protest right now is uh there's a large number of people is uh there's a large number of people is uh there's a large number of people that instead of giving in to cynicism that instead of giving in to cynicism that instead of giving in to cynicism about you know this government is no about you know this government is no about you know this government is no good yeah they're actually getting this good yeah they're actually getting this good yeah they're actually getting this like uh energy this desire to for like uh energy this desire to for like uh energy this desire to for revolution revolution revolution uh in in the sort of non-violent sort of uh in in the sort of non-violent sort of uh in in the sort of non-violent sort of in the in the Democratic sense of that in the in the Democratic sense of that in the in the Democratic sense of that let's let's actually find the ideas let's let's actually find the ideas let's let's actually find the ideas let's let's build a great nation here let's let's build a great nation here let's let's build a great nation here this is a great nation this is my nation this is a great nation this is my nation this is a great nation this is my nation let's build something great here well let's build something great here well let's build something great here well that's my hope that's well yeah yeah that's my hope that's well yeah yeah that's my hope that's well yeah yeah that's what I'm hoping for it I share that's what I'm hoping for it I share that's what I'm hoping for it I share your uh aspiration but I'm fearing that your uh aspiration but I'm fearing that your uh aspiration but I'm fearing that I hope it's not a wishful thinking I hope it's not a wishful thinking I hope it's not a wishful thinking it's certainly that's what they want it's certainly that's what they want it's certainly that's what they want certainly that's what they want to certainly that's what they want to certainly that's what they want to create but the history and always tells create but the history and always tells create but the history and always tells you from where they start to be where you from where they start to be where you from where they start to be where they finish they finish they finish there is going to be a huge kind of a there is going to be a huge kind of a there is going to be a huge kind of a change and in this particular case

change and in this particular case change and in this particular case I wouldn't be I I would very much hope I wouldn't be I I would very much hope I wouldn't be I I would very much hope that it's not going to be a revolution that it's not going to be a revolution that it's not going to be a revolution like 1979 Islamic revolution like 1979 Islamic revolution like 1979 Islamic revolution and I have my hopes in that for one and I have my hopes in that for one and I have my hopes in that for one thing this is a revolution that doesn't thing this is a revolution that doesn't thing this is a revolution that doesn't have a leader have a leader have a leader okay okay okay and it seems that they're comfortable and it seems that they're comfortable and it seems that they're comfortable with that with that with that at least so far because we were the at least so far because we were the at least so far because we were the sixth week of this movement and I hope sixth week of this movement and I hope sixth week of this movement and I hope it's not going to be actually a it's not going to be actually a it's not going to be actually a revolution as I pointed out before I revolution as I pointed out before I revolution as I pointed out before I hope it's going to be more of a hope it's going to be more of a hope it's going to be more of a sense of trying to come sense of trying to come sense of trying to come to some compromise to some compromise to some compromise and gradually move toward change rather and gradually move toward change rather and gradually move toward change rather than a collapse of this than a collapse of this than a collapse of this regime and replacement with what so the regime and replacement with what so the regime and replacement with what so the anxiety of the regime you hope will turn anxiety of the regime you hope will turn anxiety of the regime you hope will turn into a kind of uh realization that you into a kind of uh realization that you into a kind of uh realization that you have to you have to modernize you have have to you have to modernize you have have to you have to modernize you have to make progress you actually have to to make progress you actually have to to make progress you actually have to make certain compromises yes or make certain compromises yes or make certain compromises yes or constitutional changes all those kind of constitutional changes all those kind of constitutional changes all those kind of stuff so the basic process of government stuff so the basic process of government stuff so the basic process of government and law making and law making and law making problem is problem is problem is that they say we have it all you know we that they say we have it all you know we that they say we have it all you know we have our Parliament we have our have our Parliament we have our have our Parliament we have our constitution we have our elections which constitution we have our elections which constitution we have our elections which has all been of course has all been of course has all been of course fake but they claim they have all of fake but they claim they have all of fake but they claim they have all of that that that but the problem for them is that but the problem for them is that but the problem for them is that they they they try to superimpose

try to superimpose try to superimpose is an ideology is an ideology is an ideology like all other ideological uh like all other ideological uh like all other ideological uh autocracies or other cases in this case autocracies or other cases in this case autocracies or other cases in this case that tend to dominate that tend to dominate that tend to dominate uh all this institution buildings that uh all this institution buildings that uh all this institution buildings that they have and they they constantly claim they have and they they constantly claim they have and they they constantly claim we have this we have that that is of we have this we have that that is of we have this we have that that is of course there's a generational thing course there's a generational thing course there's a generational thing the upper echelons of this regime the upper echelons of this regime the upper echelons of this regime are mostly older people interpret they are mostly older people interpret they are mostly older people interpret they are the clergy are the clergy are the clergy that are afraid of the fact that they that are afraid of the fact that they that are afraid of the fact that they may lose their control over their whole may lose their control over their whole may lose their control over their whole system that is a sophisticated huge system that is a sophisticated huge system that is a sophisticated huge system of government system of government system of government and and and they rely on certain tools of control they rely on certain tools of control they rely on certain tools of control which is the Revolutionary guards which is the Revolutionary guards which is the Revolutionary guards and other and other and other other other other institutions that are loyal to to the institutions that are loyal to to the institutions that are loyal to to the state and they spend enormous amount of state and they spend enormous amount of state and they spend enormous amount of funds that is available to them at least funds that is available to them at least funds that is available to them at least before the sanctions but even during the before the sanctions but even during the before the sanctions but even during the sanctions they still have enough funds sanctions they still have enough funds sanctions they still have enough funds to do so to do so to do so and in order to remain in power and they and in order to remain in power and they and in order to remain in power and they are extremely ruthless in that regard are extremely ruthless in that regard are extremely ruthless in that regard this is not a nice Islamic fatherly this is not a nice Islamic fatherly this is not a nice Islamic fatherly regime this is a regime that I would see

regime this is a regime that I would see regime this is a regime that I would see easily in it easily in it easily in it clear signs of fascism clear signs of fascism clear signs of fascism clear sense of clear sense of clear sense of the state's control and pay any price to the state's control and pay any price to the state's control and pay any price to stay in power so even violence extreme stay in power so even violence extreme stay in power so even violence extreme violence to return to the massacre what violence to return to the massacre what violence to return to the massacre what what were the uses of violence to what were the uses of violence to what were the uses of violence to suppress protests well yes it was suppress protests well yes it was suppress protests well yes it was actually quite remarkable to see that actually quite remarkable to see that actually quite remarkable to see that from the first or the second day of the from the first or the second day of the from the first or the second day of the protest you see out in this street this protest you see out in this street this protest you see out in this street this Riot police okay Riot police okay Riot police okay which comes out in large numbers which comes out in large numbers which comes out in large numbers fully geared up fully geared up fully geared up their appearance are rather terrifying their appearance are rather terrifying their appearance are rather terrifying like any other Riot but it's probably like any other Riot but it's probably like any other Riot but it's probably more than any other right police more than any other right police more than any other right police they're violent they're violent they're violent and they stand in the streets when these and they stand in the streets when these and they stand in the streets when these students are demonstrating even in students are demonstrating even in students are demonstrating even in smaller number because before I go to smaller number because before I go to smaller number because before I go to that I should point this point these are that I should point this point these are that I should point this point these are to you as well that that these to you as well that that these to you as well that that these demonstrations are not demonstrations are not demonstrations are not large ones in one place you see you large ones in one place you see you large ones in one place you see you don't see a hundred thousand people in don't see a hundred thousand people in don't see a hundred thousand people in in one place in one place in one place but you see in every neighborhood couple but you see in every neighborhood couple but you see in every neighborhood couple of thousands of kids are of thousands of kids are of thousands of kids are demonstrating all the way around all demonstrating all the way around all demonstrating all the way around all over now all over the world in different over now all over the world in different over now all over the world in different parts yes yes yes actually during the parts yes yes yes actually during the parts yes yes yes actually during the demonstrations three weeks ago they as I

demonstrations three weeks ago they as I demonstrations three weeks ago they as I said they had people in said they had people in said they had people in Sydney Australia New Zealand Tokyo all Sydney Australia New Zealand Tokyo all Sydney Australia New Zealand Tokyo all over the world all protesting high gas over the world all protesting high gas over the world all protesting high gas prices it's funny prices it's funny prices it's funny everywhere everywhere everywhere everywhere everywhere everywhere to the extent that they could be ignored to the extent that they could be ignored to the extent that they could be ignored yeah nothing but if they could not be yeah nothing but if they could not be yeah nothing but if they could not be ignored and it's actually quite ignored and it's actually quite ignored and it's actually quite remarkable that this is very remarkable that this is very remarkable that this is very embarrassing to them but somehow they embarrassing to them but somehow they embarrassing to them but somehow they think that this propaganda machine of think that this propaganda machine of think that this propaganda machine of them is working I say you think they them is working I say you think they them is working I say you think they don't have a good even sense I mean it's don't have a good even sense I mean it's don't have a good even sense I mean it's so there's an incompetence within the so there's an incompetence within the so there's an incompetence within the propaganda machine yes it is there's an propaganda machine yes it is there's an propaganda machine yes it is there's an incompetence across the board yeah I incompetence across the board yeah I incompetence across the board yeah I mean despite all of this massive mean despite all of this massive mean despite all of this massive government government government Administration or whatever you would Administration or whatever you would Administration or whatever you would call it all these various components of call it all these various components of call it all these various components of it there is a sense of the existence of it there is a sense of the existence of it there is a sense of the existence of inefficiency and incompetence that is inefficiency and incompetence that is inefficiency and incompetence that is associated with in every action that you associated with in every action that you associated with in every action that you see even in their suppression of this see even in their suppression of this see even in their suppression of this street movement but in answer to that street movement but in answer to that street movement but in answer to that question you would see that there this question you would see that there this question you would see that there this uh Riot police uh Riot police uh Riot police uh very it's quite obvious that they uh very it's quite obvious that they uh very it's quite obvious that they were trained for the purpose so this were trained for the purpose so this were trained for the purpose so this their appearance to everything these are their appearance to everything these are their appearance to everything these are not just regular army forces or soldiers not just regular army forces or soldiers not just regular army forces or soldiers as conscripts they are professional as conscripts they are professional as conscripts they are professional forces and they come not only in on foot forces and they come not only in on foot forces and they come not only in on foot number but they come on motorbikes so

number but they come on motorbikes so number but they come on motorbikes so there are you would see any of these there are you would see any of these there are you would see any of these demonstrations there are 10 12 15 20 demonstrations there are 10 12 15 20 demonstrations there are 10 12 15 20 motorbikes motorbikes motorbikes with two passengers one in front riding with two passengers one in front riding with two passengers one in front riding the one in the back the one in the back the one in the back fully equipped with the Baton with paint fully equipped with the Baton with paint fully equipped with the Baton with paint guns with pellet guns and with bullets guns with pellet guns and with bullets guns with pellet guns and with bullets so they have very fully uh equipped and so they have very fully uh equipped and so they have very fully uh equipped and they are terrifying they go through the they are terrifying they go through the they are terrifying they go through the demonstrations that hits and beat people demonstrations that hits and beat people demonstrations that hits and beat people and then the areas and then the areas and then the areas and then you sit behind the first line and then you sit behind the first line and then you sit behind the first line of these right police you would see all of these right police you would see all of these right police you would see all this latest this latest this latest models of this models of this models of this special uh armored trucks special uh armored trucks special uh armored trucks for for for moving to the demonstrations and moving to the demonstrations and moving to the demonstrations and arresting people throwing them into this arresting people throwing them into this arresting people throwing them into this and then behind that water water cannons and then behind that water water cannons and then behind that water water cannons you see and I was looking at that to say you see and I was looking at that to say you see and I was looking at that to say okay this is Tehran probably they have okay this is Tehran probably they have okay this is Tehran probably they have this but then you look at the smallest this but then you look at the smallest this but then you look at the smallest cities they still have the same thing cities they still have the same thing cities they still have the same thing so all over the country one thing that so all over the country one thing that so all over the country one thing that they had managed to produce extensively they had managed to produce extensively they had managed to produce extensively irrespective of the fact that whether irrespective of the fact that whether irrespective of the fact that whether they are effective or not but you see they are effective or not but you see they are effective or not but you see them everywhere so it just shows that them everywhere so it just shows that them everywhere so it just shows that how afraid this regime is but that also how afraid this regime is but that also how afraid this regime is but that also shows that there's an infrastructure

shows that there's an infrastructure shows that there's an infrastructure that can Implement violence at scale yes that can Implement violence at scale yes that can Implement violence at scale yes very much so and it's probably part and very much so and it's probably part and very much so and it's probably part and parcel of this regime from day one parcel of this regime from day one parcel of this regime from day one the number of Prisons that they have the number of Prisons that they have the number of Prisons that they have according to according to according to perhaps an exaggerated version perhaps an exaggerated version perhaps an exaggerated version they said that about 12 they said that about 12 they said that about 12 000 or so 000 or so 000 or so arrested that's what in jails today arrested that's what in jails today arrested that's what in jails today since past six weeks since past six weeks since past six weeks they were 230 or 40 people were killed they were 230 or 40 people were killed they were 230 or 40 people were killed including children I under including children I under including children I under 18. they are 18. they are 18. they are they beat up they beat up they beat up women in the street which is extremely women in the street which is extremely women in the street which is extremely actually uh disturbing when you see actually uh disturbing when you see actually uh disturbing when you see these scenes of so there's a lot of this these scenes of so there's a lot of this these scenes of so there's a lot of this is on video too right everything is on is on video too right everything is on is on video too right everything is on video everybody has a camera video everybody has a camera video everybody has a camera and everybody sends to Major news and everybody sends to Major news and everybody sends to Major news outlets outside Iran and they outlets outside Iran and they outlets outside Iran and they immediately showed every night if you immediately showed every night if you immediately showed every night if you look at BBC Persia or Iran International look at BBC Persia or Iran International look at BBC Persia or Iran International reviewer for I think the six of them reviewer for I think the six of them reviewer for I think the six of them actually actually actually all over this in England they are in all over this in England they are in all over this in England they are in Deutsche Valley in Germany Deutsche Valley in Germany Deutsche Valley in Germany uh which has a particular interest in uh which has a particular interest in uh which has a particular interest in the Iranian BBC World Service and so the Iranian BBC World Service and so the Iranian BBC World Service and so forth in London forth in London forth in London and Voice of America Persian here in

and Voice of America Persian here in and Voice of America Persian here in this country there is another one radio this country there is another one radio this country there is another one radio fader which is also funded by the fader which is also funded by the fader which is also funded by the American government American government American government also fully covers all of these events so also fully covers all of these events so also fully covers all of these events so there is no way that these people can there is no way that these people can there is no way that these people can that Iraq can miss what's going on in that Iraq can miss what's going on in that Iraq can miss what's going on in the streets of these demonstrations and the streets of these demonstrations and the streets of these demonstrations and the scenes of beating up women the scenes of beating up women the scenes of beating up women which in Iranian culture as I presume in which in Iranian culture as I presume in which in Iranian culture as I presume in most cultures in the world there is a most cultures in the world there is a most cultures in the world there is a certain sanctity that you don't attack certain sanctity that you don't attack certain sanctity that you don't attack women women women but they do and this is an Islamic but they do and this is an Islamic but they do and this is an Islamic regime that supposedly have to have a regime that supposedly have to have a regime that supposedly have to have a certain sense of concern and uh certain sense of concern and uh certain sense of concern and uh protection protection protection like a like a deep respect for women like a like a deep respect for women like a like a deep respect for women grounded in a tradition of protecting grounded in a tradition of protecting grounded in a tradition of protecting them but instead this kind of idea that them but instead this kind of idea that them but instead this kind of idea that was instilled in law has turned into a was instilled in law has turned into a was instilled in law has turned into a deep disrespect of women exactly or fear deep disrespect of women exactly or fear deep disrespect of women exactly or fear that these women are not any longer the that these women are not any longer the that these women are not any longer the girls that we thought we are bringing up girls that we thought we are bringing up girls that we thought we are bringing up in this Society the source of you losing in this Society the source of you losing in this Society the source of you losing your power will be these these women your power will be these these women your power will be these these women that's the fear yeah and you see of that's the fear yeah and you see of that's the fear yeah and you see of course this government do have a support course this government do have a support course this government do have a support base I mean it would be uh totally wrong base I mean it would be uh totally wrong base I mean it would be uh totally wrong to think that the Islamic Republic has to think that the Islamic Republic has to think that the Islamic Republic has not created its own power base it does

not created its own power base it does not created its own power base it does uh but it's probably if there's no way uh but it's probably if there's no way uh but it's probably if there's no way there are no statistics that we can or there are no statistics that we can or there are no statistics that we can or I'm not aware of any statistics that I I'm not aware of any statistics that I I'm not aware of any statistics that I can give you in numbers what's the can give you in numbers what's the can give you in numbers what's the percentage of support for the regime in percentage of support for the regime in percentage of support for the regime in Iran but quite frankly I don't think Iran but quite frankly I don't think Iran but quite frankly I don't think it's more than probably 10 of the it's more than probably 10 of the it's more than probably 10 of the population very generous I I would be population very generous I I would be population very generous I I would be surprised if it's that low I would say surprised if it's that low I would say surprised if it's that low I would say so if my understanding because I've been so if my understanding because I've been so if my understanding because I've been very deeply paying attention to the war very deeply paying attention to the war very deeply paying attention to the war in Ukraine in to uh Ukraine to Russia in Ukraine in to uh Ukraine to Russia in Ukraine in to uh Ukraine to Russia and uh to support in Russia for Putin and uh to support in Russia for Putin and uh to support in Russia for Putin yes I think without knowing the details yes I think without knowing the details yes I think without knowing the details without even considering the effects of without even considering the effects of without even considering the effects of propaganda and stuff like that is propaganda and stuff like that is propaganda and stuff like that is there's probably a large number of there's probably a large number of there's probably a large number of people in Iran that people in Iran that people in Iran that don't see this as a battle of Human don't see this as a battle of Human don't see this as a battle of Human Rights but see it as a battle of Rights but see it as a battle of Rights but see it as a battle of uh conservatism like tradition versus uh conservatism like tradition versus uh conservatism like tradition versus modernization and they value tradition modernization and they value tradition modernization and they value tradition that that what they fear from the that that what they fear from the that that what they fear from the throwing away of the hijab throwing away of the hijab throwing away of the hijab is not the loss of power and like the is not the loss of power and like the is not the loss of power and like the women getting human rights what they women getting human rights what they women getting human rights what they fear is is the same stuff you fear when fear is is the same stuff you fear when fear is is the same stuff you fear when you're sitting on a porch and saying you're sitting on a porch and saying you're sitting on a porch and saying kids these days have no respect kids these days have no respect kids these days have no respect basically that they there's a large basically that they there's a large basically that they there's a large number of Iranians that probably value number of Iranians that probably value number of Iranians that probably value tradition tradition tradition and uh the beauty of the culture and and uh the beauty of the culture and and uh the beauty of the culture and like there they fear that kids with

like there they fear that kids with like there they fear that kids with their internet and their videos and their internet and their videos and their internet and their videos and their Revolution will throw away their Revolution will throw away their Revolution will throw away everything that made this country uh everything that made this country uh everything that made this country uh hold together for Millennia right hold together for Millennia right hold together for Millennia right so yes I know I would agree with you in so yes I know I would agree with you in so yes I know I would agree with you in the sense that probably like everywhere the sense that probably like everywhere the sense that probably like everywhere else in the world this is the else in the world this is the else in the world this is the generational thing you know every generational thing you know every generational thing you know every generation thinks differently about the generation thinks differently about the generation thinks differently about the younger generation No Doubt and in Iran younger generation No Doubt and in Iran younger generation No Doubt and in Iran is the same but the there is another is the same but the there is another is the same but the there is another Factor here is involved those that we Factor here is involved those that we Factor here is involved those that we would consider them as traditional no longer seem to have their loyalties no longer seem to have their loyalties to this regime that's powerful meaning to this regime that's powerful meaning to this regime that's powerful meaning that the this the that the this the that the this the they consider as a brutal regime they consider as a brutal regime they consider as a brutal regime that is prepared to kill children in the that is prepared to kill children in the that is prepared to kill children in the streets streets streets and it does a lot of things wrong of and it does a lot of things wrong of and it does a lot of things wrong of course it tries to take care of the its course it tries to take care of the its course it tries to take care of the its own power base own power base own power base it is a very strong sense of if we start it is a very strong sense of if we start it is a very strong sense of if we start here there's a very strong sense in this here there's a very strong sense in this here there's a very strong sense in this regime that there are people that is regime that there are people that is regime that there are people that is theirs and their others which are not theirs and their others which are not theirs and their others which are not theirs there's a word for it even theirs there's a word for it even theirs there's a word for it even impression they call it one of us impression they call it one of us impression they call it one of us okay uh so well it's very that's very okay uh so well it's very that's very okay uh so well it's very that's very fascistic it's like yes yes it's all for fascistic it's like yes yes it's all for fascistic it's like yes yes it's all for that matter I I suppose Soviet Union you that matter I I suppose Soviet Union you that matter I I suppose Soviet Union you would have if you were a member of the would have if you were a member of the would have if you were a member of the party and like you know your children party and like you know your children party and like you know your children would have received a special kind of

would have received a special kind of would have received a special kind of treatment yourself as well treatment yourself as well treatment yourself as well um um um this sense of us versus them this sense of us versus them this sense of us versus them uh for a while worked uh for a while worked uh for a while worked because the younger people coming from because the younger people coming from because the younger people coming from the countryside to the cities the countryside to the cities the countryside to the cities certain fact certain sector of them certain fact certain sector of them certain fact certain sector of them would have found would have found would have found uh with a fund protection and support uh with a fund protection and support uh with a fund protection and support from the government they they wanted to from the government they they wanted to from the government they they wanted to belong to something and the masks and belong to something and the masks and belong to something and the masks and the mornings uh uh morning associations the mornings uh uh morning associations the mornings uh uh morning associations in the neighborhoods and so forth would in the neighborhoods and so forth would in the neighborhoods and so forth would have given them there is actually a term have given them there is actually a term have given them there is actually a term for it it's called basigi those those for it it's called basigi those those for it it's called basigi those those have been recruited by this state and have been recruited by this state and have been recruited by this state and this is the youth this is the youth this is the youth kind of kind of kind of vigilante if you like that that you can vigilante if you like that that you can vigilante if you like that that you can see them also in these demonstrations see them also in these demonstrations see them also in these demonstrations sometimes thogs they're called the Civil sometimes thogs they're called the Civil sometimes thogs they're called the Civil cloth so the people that that comes to cloth so the people that that comes to cloth so the people that that comes to these demonstrations that start beating these demonstrations that start beating these demonstrations that start beating up up up these young people these young people these young people and they they are not in uh in a and they they are not in uh in a and they they are not in uh in a security police security police security police uh uniforms but they are just regular uh uniforms but they are just regular uh uniforms but they are just regular clothes and these people clothes and these people clothes and these people yes they still support and they still yes they still support and they still yes they still support and they still benefit because they get jobs benefit because they get jobs benefit because they get jobs they get their privileges

they get their privileges they get their privileges and these are very important for a for a and these are very important for a for a and these are very important for a for a for a state for a state for a state that's basically monopolize this most of that's basically monopolize this most of that's basically monopolize this most of the resources you see even be even the resources you see even be even the resources you see even be even during this action let alone before this during this action let alone before this during this action let alone before this action action action the oil revenue of Iran which is the the oil revenue of Iran which is the the oil revenue of Iran which is the major source of the state government was major source of the state government was major source of the state government was the Monopoly of the state it was the Monopoly of the state it was the Monopoly of the state it was Monopoly of State during the parallel Monopoly of State during the parallel Monopoly of State during the parallel from the start basically from the start basically from the start basically so what does that mean that mean that so what does that mean that mean that so what does that mean that mean that the regime in power is not no longer is the regime in power is not no longer is the regime in power is not no longer is particularly accountable to the majority particularly accountable to the majority particularly accountable to the majority population because it extracts wealth population because it extracts wealth population because it extracts wealth from underground from underground from underground and it uses it for its own purposes in and it uses it for its own purposes in and it uses it for its own purposes in order to make it more powerful in order order to make it more powerful in order order to make it more powerful in order to make it more repressive that's what to make it more repressive that's what to make it more repressive that's what it is the regime today so it feeds a it is the regime today so it feeds a it is the regime today so it feeds a small or I wouldn't say but a fair small or I wouldn't say but a fair small or I wouldn't say but a fair number of its own supporters number of its own supporters number of its own supporters I mean the Revolutionary regards in Iran I mean the Revolutionary regards in Iran I mean the Revolutionary regards in Iran is probably about 350 is probably about 350 is probably about 350 000 or something like that it's a very 000 or something like that it's a very 000 or something like that it's a very big Force big Force big Force and this is not a regular army the and this is not a regular army the and this is not a regular army the Revolutionary guards are independent Revolutionary guards are independent Revolutionary guards are independent from the from the Revolutionary guard from the from the Revolutionary guard from the from the Revolutionary guard his Armed Forces controlled by the state his Armed Forces controlled by the state his Armed Forces controlled by the state yes the same as the Army but these are yes the same as the Army but these are yes the same as the Army but these are more ideologically more ideologically more ideologically tied up with this state and they're also tied up with this state and they're also tied up with this state and they're also in facing internal facing what's their

in facing internal facing what's their in facing internal facing what's their purpose what's their stated what's the purpose what's their stated what's the purpose what's their stated what's the stated purpose of the Revolution they've stated purpose of the Revolution they've stated purpose of the Revolution they've won when the revolution succeeded the won when the revolution succeeded the won when the revolution succeeded the regime in part the Islamic regime in regime in part the Islamic regime in regime in part the Islamic regime in power was vulnerable to all kinds of power was vulnerable to all kinds of power was vulnerable to all kinds of forces of opposition within Iran itself forces of opposition within Iran itself forces of opposition within Iran itself yeah that's the Revolutionary guards and yeah that's the Revolutionary guards and yeah that's the Revolutionary guards and the job was to try to make sure that the the job was to try to make sure that the the job was to try to make sure that the regime stays in power and of course over regime stays in power and of course over regime stays in power and of course over the force of over the course of 40 years the force of over the course of 40 years the force of over the course of 40 years they became more powerful more organized they became more powerful more organized they became more powerful more organized better funded better trained better funded better trained better funded better trained well at least we think they're better well at least we think they're better well at least we think they're better trained but we don't know because the trained but we don't know because the trained but we don't know because the level of incompetence perhaps can be level of incompetence perhaps can be level of incompetence perhaps can be seen through the rank and file as well seen through the rank and file as well seen through the rank and file as well but you know they developed their own uh but you know they developed their own uh but you know they developed their own uh Indus military industry I mean those uh Indus military industry I mean those uh Indus military industry I mean those uh uh drones that you see now uh drones that you see now uh drones that you see now Putin's regime are throwing on Putin's regime are throwing on Putin's regime are throwing on ukrainians for ukrainians those are all ukrainians for ukrainians those are all ukrainians for ukrainians those are all built by the Revolutionary guards by the built by the Revolutionary guards by the built by the Revolutionary guards by the military industry under the control not military industry under the control not military industry under the control not the Revolutionary guys and like similar the Revolutionary guys and like similar the Revolutionary guys and like similar regimes in the Middle East at least regimes in the Middle East at least regimes in the Middle East at least these are military industrial complexes these are military industrial complexes these are military industrial complexes you can find them in Egypt of course you can find them in Egypt of course you can find them in Egypt of course which is very powerful very which is very powerful very which is very powerful very traditionally has been empowered and traditionally has been empowered and traditionally has been empowered and still is in power still is in power still is in power you find them in Pakistan which is it is you find them in Pakistan which is it is you find them in Pakistan which is it is extremely powerful extremely powerful extremely powerful and they can

and they can and they can change the prime minister's change the prime minister's change the prime minister's as they did in the case of the last one as they did in the case of the last one as they did in the case of the last one you can find them uh probably in Myanmar you can find them uh probably in Myanmar you can find them uh probably in Myanmar is the same phenomenon uh and I can if is the same phenomenon uh and I can if is the same phenomenon uh and I can if you look around you can find quite a you look around you can find quite a you look around you can find quite a number of them and the Revolutionary number of them and the Revolutionary number of them and the Revolutionary regards is the equivalent of that this regards is the equivalent of that this regards is the equivalent of that this this is a powerful this is a powerful this is a powerful um uh establishment Force which um uh establishment Force which um uh establishment Force which militarily is powerful industrially is militarily is powerful industrially is militarily is powerful industrially is powerful and powerful and powerful and since the start of the Revolution they since the start of the Revolution they since the start of the Revolution they have been given projects so you want to have been given projects so you want to have been given projects so you want to build dams which they did a major build dams which they did a major build dams which they did a major disaster environmental disaster disaster environmental disaster disaster environmental disaster they built 100 and something dams all they built 100 and something dams all they built 100 and something dams all across the country this is the across the country this is the across the country this is the Revolutionary regard to Desert Revolutionary regard to Desert Revolutionary regard to Desert so they have all kinds of uh tentacles so they have all kinds of uh tentacles so they have all kinds of uh tentacles all around the country controlling all around the country controlling all around the country controlling various things and because it's their various things and because it's their various things and because it's their job and they have power their prestige job and they have power their prestige job and they have power their prestige there's a huge incentive to join them there's a huge incentive to join them there's a huge incentive to join them and to join them and to stay so like and to join them and to stay so like and to join them and to stay so like they you know when they're having dinner they you know when they're having dinner they you know when they're having dinner at home with their families at home with their families at home with their families there's not an incentive to uh there's not an incentive to uh there's not an incentive to uh to join the protests sort of well that to join the protests sort of well that to join the protests sort of well that is the point I think I remember the is the point I think I remember the is the point I think I remember the evolution you guys may be an extreme but evolution you guys may be an extreme but evolution you guys may be an extreme but many of the people who depend on this

many of the people who depend on this many of the people who depend on this state for their support state for their support state for their support now the younger generation now the younger generation now the younger generation telling their parents you were wrong telling their parents you were wrong telling their parents you were wrong you don't provide for us this Society you don't provide for us this Society you don't provide for us this Society this state does not provide what we want this state does not provide what we want this state does not provide what we want so there is a dissent within the family so there is a dissent within the family so there is a dissent within the family it seems to me I hope it's not a wishful it seems to me I hope it's not a wishful it seems to me I hope it's not a wishful thinking you know there is a kind of a thinking you know there is a kind of a thinking you know there is a kind of a joke going around you see this attempt joke going around you see this attempt joke going around you see this attempt guys the clergy bearded and traditional guys the clergy bearded and traditional guys the clergy bearded and traditional clinical appearance clinical appearance clinical appearance whether you see them whether you see them whether you see them talking about women talking about women talking about women they are very of course politically they are very of course politically they are very of course politically correct they are very looking down correct they are very looking down correct they are very looking down towards women towards women towards women as as I said you know they have to be as as I said you know they have to be as as I said you know they have to be inside they have to be protected they inside they have to be protected they inside they have to be protected they have not to be seen and so forth but if have not to be seen and so forth but if have not to be seen and so forth but if they have a young person they have a young person they have a young person a young daughter in their family you see a young daughter in their family you see a young daughter in their family you see that their that their that their discourse changes they no longer seem to discourse changes they no longer seem to discourse changes they no longer seem to be referring to women as second class be referring to women as second class be referring to women as second class yeah so that's very important that's yeah so that's very important that's yeah so that's very important that's precisely that point that when you have precisely that point that when you have precisely that point that when you have this younger generation no matter how this younger generation no matter how this younger generation no matter how privileged they are and many of them are privileged they are and many of them are privileged they are and many of them are privileged you know and there is also privileged you know and there is also privileged you know and there is also the regime has created its own the regime has created its own the regime has created its own uh privileged class

uh privileged class uh privileged class that are not necessarily that are not necessarily that are not necessarily directly paid by the regime but they directly paid by the regime but they directly paid by the regime but they benefit from benefit from benefit from contractors certain professions that contractors certain professions that contractors certain professions that that benefit from what the state that benefit from what the state that benefit from what the state provides for them and Iran is a I mean provides for them and Iran is a I mean provides for them and Iran is a I mean the past 40 years you can see Iran has the past 40 years you can see Iran has the past 40 years you can see Iran has developed in terms of material culture developed in terms of material culture developed in terms of material culture remarkably remarkably remarkably Iran has good communication as roads all Iran has good communication as roads all Iran has good communication as roads all over the place it's not like a over the place it's not like a over the place it's not like a it's more like I don't know whether you it's more like I don't know whether you it's more like I don't know whether you have ever visited turkey for instance in have ever visited turkey for instance in have ever visited turkey for instance in certain respects even more advanced than certain respects even more advanced than certain respects even more advanced than turkey but it's closer to that rather turkey but it's closer to that rather turkey but it's closer to that rather than if you travel I don't want to bring than if you travel I don't want to bring than if you travel I don't want to bring particular names in North Africa particular names in North Africa particular names in North Africa or parts of the Middle East or other or parts of the Middle East or other or parts of the Middle East or other parts of the Islamic world it's much parts of the Islamic world it's much parts of the Islamic world it's much much different much different much different so in this respect you would see so in this respect you would see so in this respect you would see a certain contrast or paradoxes here on a certain contrast or paradoxes here on a certain contrast or paradoxes here on the certain respect there is the growth the certain respect there is the growth the certain respect there is the growth and there is urbanization there is and there is urbanization there is and there is urbanization there is modern economy on the other hand you see modern economy on the other hand you see modern economy on the other hand you see this superimposed this superimposed this superimposed ideological doctrinal ideological doctrinal ideological doctrinal aspect that has driven the regime over aspect that has driven the regime over aspect that has driven the regime over all these years all these years all these years and they cannot get rid of it and they cannot get rid of it and they cannot get rid of it they cannot in this respect they cannot

they cannot in this respect they cannot they cannot in this respect they cannot modernize themselves they think that modernize themselves they think that modernize themselves they think that they are already perfect in ideological they are already perfect in ideological they are already perfect in ideological sense this is the best solution for the sense this is the best solution for the sense this is the best solution for the world not for only for Iran but for the world not for only for Iran but for the world not for only for Iran but for the Muslim world and for the word as a whole Muslim world and for the word as a whole Muslim world and for the word as a whole we are Anti-Imperialist we are Anti-Imperialist we are Anti-Imperialist we have managed to survive either under we have managed to survive either under we have managed to survive either under sanctions this is all parts of the sanctions this is all parts of the sanctions this is all parts of the rhetoric but of course at a huge expense rhetoric but of course at a huge expense rhetoric but of course at a huge expense uh the huge expense for their own uh the huge expense for their own uh the huge expense for their own population and the points that we have population and the points that we have population and the points that we have raised is the fact that we now Witness raised is the fact that we now Witness raised is the fact that we now Witness there is a there is a there is a not only a generation gap between the not only a generation gap between the not only a generation gap between the youth youth youth and their parents and their parents and their parents but there is a break in a sense from the but there is a break in a sense from the but there is a break in a sense from the older Generations older Generations older Generations and they are very distinctly the youth and they are very distinctly the youth and they are very distinctly the youth that has a different view of the world that has a different view of the world that has a different view of the world and it does not want to compromise and it does not want to compromise and it does not want to compromise whether they would be able to succeed or whether they would be able to succeed or whether they would be able to succeed or not remains to be seen whether this not remains to be seen whether this not remains to be seen whether this regime is going to suppress it maybe regime is going to suppress it maybe regime is going to suppress it maybe uh but it actually uh but it actually uh but it actually brought to surface many of aspects of brought to surface many of aspects of brought to surface many of aspects of the weaknesses of this regime in power the weaknesses of this regime in power the weaknesses of this regime in power well I hear from a lot of people that well I hear from a lot of people that well I hear from a lot of people that are in these protests now and so my love are in these protests now and so my love are in these protests now and so my love goes to them and stays strong because uh goes to them and stays strong because uh goes to them and stays strong because uh it's inspiring to see people fighting

it's inspiring to see people fighting it's inspiring to see people fighting for those things the for those things the for those things the women life and freedom especially women life and freedom especially women life and freedom especially Freedom yes because that can only lead Freedom yes because that can only lead Freedom yes because that can only lead to a good thing in the long term at to a good thing in the long term at to a good thing in the long term at least and if possible to avoid a violent least and if possible to avoid a violent least and if possible to avoid a violent revolution revolution revolution of course that is something that we all of course that is something that we all of course that is something that we all want to see before we return to the want to see before we return to the want to see before we return to the present let's Jump Around let's go to present let's Jump Around let's go to present let's Jump Around let's go to the past we mentioned 1979 the past we mentioned 1979 the past we mentioned 1979 what happened in 1979 in Iran well in what happened in 1979 in Iran well in what happened in 1979 in Iran well in 1979 there was 1979 there was 1979 there was a revolution that eventually came to be a revolution that eventually came to be a revolution that eventually came to be known as the Islamic revolution and even known as the Islamic revolution and even known as the Islamic revolution and even up to this day up to this day up to this day many of The Observers or those who have many of The Observers or those who have many of The Observers or those who have strong views that would not like to strong views that would not like to strong views that would not like to refer to it as an Islamic revolution or refer to it as an Islamic revolution or refer to it as an Islamic revolution or even a revolution even a revolution even a revolution this is the because the nature of it in this is the because the nature of it in this is the because the nature of it in the earlier stages of it started really the earlier stages of it started really the earlier stages of it started really probably around 1977 it took two years probably around 1977 it took two years probably around 1977 it took two years was much more all embracing it was not was much more all embracing it was not was much more all embracing it was not Islamic in a particular fashion or at Islamic in a particular fashion or at Islamic in a particular fashion or at all in a sense it started with a kind of all in a sense it started with a kind of all in a sense it started with a kind of a very liberal Democrats a very liberal Democrats a very liberal Democrats uh agenda uh agenda uh agenda which required which demanded mostly by which required which demanded mostly by which required which demanded mostly by people people people who were the veterans of the older who were the veterans of the older who were the veterans of the older generations of Iranian liberal generations of Iranian liberal generations of Iranian liberal nationalists that were left out in the

nationalists that were left out in the nationalists that were left out in the palabi period it's a period of the Shah palabi period it's a period of the Shah palabi period it's a period of the Shah became increasingly became increasingly became increasingly um authoritarian um authoritarian um authoritarian increasing the suppressive increasing the suppressive increasing the suppressive and therefore basically living no space and therefore basically living no space and therefore basically living no space no political space no political space no political space open for any kind of a give and take open for any kind of a give and take open for any kind of a give and take any kind of a conversation or any kind of a conversation or any kind of a conversation or participation 2017 70s 70s particularly participation 2017 70s 70s particularly participation 2017 70s 70s particularly in the 70s can we actually even like in the 70s can we actually even like in the 70s can we actually even like just do a a whirlwind just do a a whirlwind just do a a whirlwind review from 1906 to 1979. okay sure in review from 1906 to 1979. okay sure in review from 1906 to 1979. okay sure in 1906 there was a period like actually as 1906 there was a period like actually as 1906 there was a period like actually as you might know the first decade or this you might know the first decade or this you might know the first decade or this so of uh of the 20th century witnessed so of uh of the 20th century witnessed so of uh of the 20th century witnessed numerous numerous numerous what's referred to as constitutional what's referred to as constitutional what's referred to as constitutional revolutions including Russia 1905 the revolutions including Russia 1905 the revolutions including Russia 1905 the first Revolution first Revolution first Revolution including the Chinese Revolution in 19 including the Chinese Revolution in 19 including the Chinese Revolution in 19 constitution in 1910 the young Texas constitution in 1910 the young Texas constitution in 1910 the young Texas Revolution in 1908 and the Iranian Revolution in 1908 and the Iranian Revolution in 1908 and the Iranian Revolution in 1906. to understand why Revolution in 1906. to understand why Revolution in 1906. to understand why the synchronicity of all of it why in so the synchronicity of all of it why in so the synchronicity of all of it why in so many different places very different many different places very different many different places very different cultures very different governments very cultures very different governments very cultures very different governments very different cultures but all of them in a different cultures but all of them in a different cultures but all of them in a sense were coming out of sense were coming out of sense were coming out of the regimes that became uh uh the regimes that became uh uh the regimes that became uh uh progressively powerful

progressively powerful progressively powerful without having any kind of a legal without having any kind of a legal without having any kind of a legal system that would protect the individual system that would protect the individual system that would protect the individual vis-a-vis state so the idea of law vis-a-vis state so the idea of law vis-a-vis state so the idea of law and the Constitution According to which and the Constitution According to which and the Constitution According to which there should be a certain protection a there should be a certain protection a there should be a certain protection a certain Civil Society became very common certain Civil Society became very common certain Civil Society became very common yeah but I wonder where that because yeah but I wonder where that because yeah but I wonder where that because that's been that way for for a very very that's been that way for for a very very that's been that way for for a very very long time and so I wonder long time and so I wonder long time and so I wonder you know it's funny a certain ideas just you know it's funny a certain ideas just you know it's funny a certain ideas just their time comes exactly it's like 1848 their time comes exactly it's like 1848 their time comes exactly it's like 1848 when you would see that there's a whole when you would see that there's a whole when you would see that there's a whole range of revolutions range of revolutions range of revolutions across Europe yeah or you would see for across Europe yeah or you would see for across Europe yeah or you would see for instance the Arab Spring you see all instance the Arab Spring you see all instance the Arab Spring you see all these Revolutions in the Arab world these Revolutions in the Arab world these Revolutions in the Arab world which unfortunately nearly all of them which unfortunately nearly all of them which unfortunately nearly all of them failed failed failed so yes these are very contagious ideas so yes these are very contagious ideas so yes these are very contagious ideas that moves across Frontiers from one that moves across Frontiers from one that moves across Frontiers from one culture to another and I presume we can culture to another and I presume we can culture to another and I presume we can add to that there are two elements which add to that there are two elements which add to that there are two elements which one can say there is a greater one can say there is a greater one can say there is a greater communication there is the greatest communication there is the greatest communication there is the greatest sense of a world economy and the third sense of a world economy and the third sense of a world economy and the third of the century witnessed the first of the century witnessed the first of the century witnessed the first decade of the century witnessed a period decade of the century witnessed a period decade of the century witnessed a period of uh volatility particularly in uh in of uh volatility particularly in uh in of uh volatility particularly in uh in currency currency currency so many of the countries of the world so many of the countries of the world so many of the countries of the world particularly non-west particularly non-west particularly non-west suffered in and suffered in and suffered in and particularly the businesses suffered

particularly the businesses suffered particularly the businesses suffered and not surprisingly the business class and not surprisingly the business class and not surprisingly the business class were in the Forefront of many of this were in the Forefront of many of this were in the Forefront of many of this constitutional movements requiring the constitutional movements requiring the constitutional movements requiring the state to give the a kind of a created state to give the a kind of a created state to give the a kind of a created the right kind of Institutions to listen the right kind of Institutions to listen the right kind of Institutions to listen to their voices to their concerns and to their voices to their concerns and to their voices to their concerns and the creation of the democratic system the creation of the democratic system the creation of the democratic system parliamentary and system with which parliamentary and system with which parliamentary and system with which there would be a representation there would be a representation there would be a representation popular representation proper elections popular representation proper elections popular representation proper elections and so forth and constitutions and this and so forth and constitutions and this and so forth and constitutions and this very much is a kind of a French idea of very much is a kind of a French idea of very much is a kind of a French idea of the Constitution going back all the way the Constitution going back all the way the Constitution going back all the way perhaps to 1789 Revolution perhaps to 1789 Revolution perhaps to 1789 Revolution Montesquieu all this kind of philosoph Montesquieu all this kind of philosoph Montesquieu all this kind of philosoph were greatly appreciated particularly a were greatly appreciated particularly a were greatly appreciated particularly a different system so what were the ideas different system so what were the ideas different system so what were the ideas in the 1906 Iranian Constitution they in the 1906 Iranian Constitution they in the 1906 Iranian Constitution they precisely the same they were demanding a precisely the same they were demanding a precisely the same they were demanding a creation of a legal system with division creation of a legal system with division creation of a legal system with division of power between the three of power between the three of power between the three executive executive executive legislative and the Judiciary and that's legislative and the Judiciary and that's legislative and the Judiciary and that's unlike the American system unlike the American system unlike the American system and they requested and they requested and they requested um basically a certain uh public space um basically a certain uh public space um basically a certain uh public space to be created between the two sources of to be created between the two sources of to be created between the two sources of power the state which had this kind of a power the state which had this kind of a power the state which had this kind of a control over the if you like the secular

control over the if you like the secular control over the if you like the secular aspect of life in the society and the aspect of life in the society and the aspect of life in the society and the religious establishment that had a full religious establishment that had a full religious establishment that had a full control over the religious aspects and control over the religious aspects and control over the religious aspects and both of them from the perspective of the both of them from the perspective of the both of them from the perspective of the Constitution and this considered as Constitution and this considered as Constitution and this considered as repressive and therefore there has to be repressive and therefore there has to be repressive and therefore there has to be a new space open between these two a new space open between these two a new space open between these two and that was the idea of a and that was the idea of a and that was the idea of a constitutional Revolution but but it's constitutional Revolution but but it's constitutional Revolution but but it's very nature it was an idea of modernity very nature it was an idea of modernity very nature it was an idea of modernity they wanted the modern society they they wanted the modern society they they wanted the modern society they wanted a better material life they they wanted a better material life they they wanted a better material life they they wanted a more representation and and so wanted a more representation and and so wanted a more representation and and so forth the Constitutional Revolution forth the Constitutional Revolution forth the Constitutional Revolution as I always would say is much more of a as I always would say is much more of a as I always would say is much more of a innocent Revolution it's a revolution innocent Revolution it's a revolution innocent Revolution it's a revolution that did not particularly have much that did not particularly have much that did not particularly have much violence in it contrary to many other violence in it contrary to many other violence in it contrary to many other revolutions revolutions revolutions it did not have a centralized leadership it did not have a centralized leadership it did not have a centralized leadership per se that's why actually I'm getting I per se that's why actually I'm getting I per se that's why actually I'm getting I mean besides the practices I'm getting a mean besides the practices I'm getting a mean besides the practices I'm getting a lot of requests for interviews to lot of requests for interviews to lot of requests for interviews to compare what's happening now with the compare what's happening now with the compare what's happening now with the revolution of 1906 revolution of 1906 revolution of 1906 1909 are there any Echoes yes yes there 1909 are there any Echoes yes yes there 1909 are there any Echoes yes yes there are there are because that was a are there are because that was a are there are because that was a movement that started without a without movement that started without a without movement that started without a without a centralized leadership a centralized leadership a centralized leadership what actually values to voices what actually values to voices what actually values to voices that emerged in various among the that emerged in various among the that emerged in various among the merchants or the businessman in the merchants or the businessman in the merchants or the businessman in the economic Community among the

economic Community among the economic Community among the representatives who came to the first representatives who came to the first representatives who came to the first Parliament the Press Parliament the Press Parliament the Press the new generation of the privileged the new generation of the privileged the new generation of the privileged aristocracy aristocracy aristocracy who were educated and uh believed in the who were educated and uh believed in the who were educated and uh believed in the Constitutional values all of these Constitutional values all of these Constitutional values all of these voices emerged at the same time and voices emerged at the same time and voices emerged at the same time and somehow they managed to somehow they managed to somehow they managed to uh to coexist uh to coexist uh to coexist in the first and the second uh in the first and the second uh in the first and the second uh uh parliaments that were created uh uh parliaments that were created uh uh parliaments that were created uh between 1905 6 and 1910 or 1911. between 1905 6 and 1910 or 1911. between 1905 6 and 1910 or 1911. but they all face huge problems but they all face huge problems but they all face huge problems in the sense that Iran was in a dire in the sense that Iran was in a dire in the sense that Iran was in a dire economic situation this is before the economic situation this is before the economic situation this is before the days of the discovery of oil which days of the discovery of oil which days of the discovery of oil which actually coincides with this card there actually coincides with this card there actually coincides with this card there are two important coincidences one is are two important coincidences one is are two important coincidences one is that the oil was discovered in the south that the oil was discovered in the south that the oil was discovered in the south in 1909 in 1909 in 1909 during the course of the Constitutional during the course of the Constitutional during the course of the Constitutional Revolution the second is that in 1907 Revolution the second is that in 1907 Revolution the second is that in 1907 the two great powers of the time the the two great powers of the time the the two great powers of the time the Russian Empire and the British Empire Russian Empire and the British Empire Russian Empire and the British Empire who always honored Iran as being a who always honored Iran as being a who always honored Iran as being a buffer State between them because they buffer State between them because they buffer State between them because they didn't want to get too close to one didn't want to get too close to one didn't want to get too close to one another another another basically came to an agreement facing basically came to an agreement facing basically came to an agreement facing the fear of the rise of the German the fear of the rise of the German the fear of the rise of the German Empire so this is the period of Anton as Empire so this is the period of Anton as Empire so this is the period of Anton as you might know in European history

you might know in European history you might know in European history whereby the front the French the British whereby the front the French the British whereby the front the French the British and the Russians all create a and the Russians all create a and the Russians all create a Alliance that ultimately leads to the Alliance that ultimately leads to the Alliance that ultimately leads to the first world war against Germany and at first world war against Germany and at first world war against Germany and at the same time the discovery of oil that the same time the discovery of oil that the same time the discovery of oil that the oil industry being a very powerful the oil industry being a very powerful the oil industry being a very powerful defining factor of the 20th century for defining factor of the 20th century for defining factor of the 20th century for Iran exactly source of a lot of money a Iran exactly source of a lot of money a Iran exactly source of a lot of money a lot of money but not all of it in the lot of money but not all of it in the lot of money but not all of it in the hands of the Iranians only 150 of it hands of the Iranians only 150 of it hands of the Iranians only 150 of it by way of royalties came to Iran there by way of royalties came to Iran there by way of royalties came to Iran there is much of it went to the Anglo is much of it went to the Anglo is much of it went to the Anglo passion a old company which they passion a old company which they passion a old company which they actually discovered the oil in the actually discovered the oil in the actually discovered the oil in the province who was the star province in province who was the star province in province who was the star province in the southwest of Iran raised the major the southwest of Iran raised the major the southwest of Iran raised the major oil Industries today right now oil Industries today right now oil Industries today right now and and and this is an extremely profitable uh this is an extremely profitable uh this is an extremely profitable uh Enterprise for that company and for the Enterprise for that company and for the Enterprise for that company and for the British government it actually purchased British government it actually purchased British government it actually purchased by the British government Churchill by the British government Churchill by the British government Churchill purchased anglo-iranian oil company for purchased anglo-iranian oil company for purchased anglo-iranian oil company for the British government so it was not the British government so it was not the British government so it was not anymore a private company it was a anymore a private company it was a anymore a private company it was a British interest as a matter of fact and British interest as a matter of fact and British interest as a matter of fact and in the course of the 20th century in the course of the 20th century in the course of the 20th century although it helped the modernization in although it helped the modernization in although it helped the modernization in Iran but it also helped the creation of Iran but it also helped the creation of Iran but it also helped the creation of a more authoritative Syria more a more authoritative Syria more a more authoritative Syria more strong state if you like to call it strong state if you like to call it strong state if you like to call it that it does that 19th century Iran that it does that 19th century Iran that it does that 19th century Iran never had that kind of a power never had never had that kind of a power never had never had that kind of a power never had that kind of resources it's the 20th

that kind of resources it's the 20th that kind of resources it's the 20th century even that one-fifth of the century even that one-fifth of the century even that one-fifth of the income that reached the Iranian State income that reached the Iranian State income that reached the Iranian State gave it a greater power that's another gave it a greater power that's another gave it a greater power that's another coincidence coincidence coincidence so yes yes you could say the oil was one so yes yes you could say the oil was one so yes yes you could say the oil was one of the catalysts for absolute power but of the catalysts for absolute power but of the catalysts for absolute power but the 20th century saw quite a few the 20th century saw quite a few the 20th century saw quite a few countries um have dictators with power unlike um have dictators with power unlike anything else in human history yes anything else in human history yes anything else in human history yes that's weird too that's weird too that's weird too but precisely and you know you can name but precisely and you know you can name but precisely and you know you can name them from the beginning of the century them from the beginning of the century them from the beginning of the century with people like with people like with people like um I don't know Lenin or Stalin of um I don't know Lenin or Stalin of um I don't know Lenin or Stalin of course Hitler even though Mao of course course Hitler even though Mao of course course Hitler even though Mao of course you can name them and probably as I you can name them and probably as I you can name them and probably as I would say is the last of them is would say is the last of them is would say is the last of them is Khomeini in that Century that you would Khomeini in that Century that you would Khomeini in that Century that you would see this strong man see this strong man see this strong man with a sense of even a a with a sense of even a a with a sense of even a a artificial or real or a sense of a artificial or real or a sense of a artificial or real or a sense of a so-called Charisma and with this total so-called Charisma and with this total so-called Charisma and with this total power over the regime that they create power over the regime that they create power over the regime that they create in the some of them do Nasser they in the some of them do Nasser they in the some of them do Nasser they didn't have much of an oil resources in didn't have much of an oil resources in didn't have much of an oil resources in Egypt but he was also one of these Egypt but he was also one of these Egypt but he was also one of these strong men okay in the 20th century strong men okay in the 20th century strong men okay in the 20th century loved by some hated by others uh so it loved by some hated by others uh so it loved by some hated by others uh so it necessarily does not tie up to necessarily does not tie up to necessarily does not tie up to uh to Resource economic resources

uh to Resource economic resources uh to Resource economic resources underground but in the Iranian case underground but in the Iranian case underground but in the Iranian case unfortunately it did unfortunately it did unfortunately it did and it was a uh it was more than it and it was a uh it was more than it and it was a uh it was more than it created more than one issue for Iran created more than one issue for Iran created more than one issue for Iran it's created a strong state which is the it's created a strong state which is the it's created a strong state which is the parlavist state from 1920 one onward parlavist state from 1920 one onward parlavist state from 1920 one onward because in 1921 at the end of the first because in 1921 at the end of the first because in 1921 at the end of the first world war Iran was in a almost a state world war Iran was in a almost a state world war Iran was in a almost a state of total bankruptcy of total bankruptcy of total bankruptcy and uh the British had a desire to try and uh the British had a desire to try and uh the British had a desire to try to bring Iran to the system that they to bring Iran to the system that they to bring Iran to the system that they created in the Middle East in the created in the Middle East in the created in the Middle East in the postwater era the mandate system postwater era the mandate system postwater era the mandate system Palestine Iraq and then of course French Palestine Iraq and then of course French Palestine Iraq and then of course French Mandate of Lebanon and Syria all of this Mandate of Lebanon and Syria all of this Mandate of Lebanon and Syria all of this and Iran was separate because Iran was and Iran was separate because Iran was and Iran was separate because Iran was an independent country it wasn't part of an independent country it wasn't part of an independent country it wasn't part of the ottawan Empire that collapsed the ottawan Empire that collapsed the ottawan Empire that collapsed so they had to somehow handle it so they had to somehow handle it so they had to somehow handle it and what they tried to do didn't work and what they tried to do didn't work and what they tried to do didn't work as a result as a result as a result partly domestic partly international partly domestic partly international partly domestic partly international issues wrote about a regime which is issues wrote about a regime which is issues wrote about a regime which is headed by the founder of the headed by the founder of the headed by the founder of the Parliamentary Parliamentary Parliamentary okay the first military officer called okay the first military officer called okay the first military officer called Reza Khan actually a military officer of Reza Khan actually a military officer of Reza Khan actually a military officer of the Kozak forces and the Kozak forces the Kozak forces and the Kozak forces the Kozak forces and the Kozak forces was the force that was created in the was the force that was created in the was the force that was created in the 19th century model of the Russian kozaks 19th century model of the Russian kozaks 19th century model of the Russian kozaks when the ruler in the 19th century when the ruler in the 19th century when the ruler in the 19th century visited Russia as in a Royal tour and

visited Russia as in a Royal tour and visited Russia as in a Royal tour and the desire should the Great the desire should the Great the desire should the Great uh Kozak forces is that I like this and uh Kozak forces is that I like this and uh Kozak forces is that I like this and he created one for himself with Russian he created one for himself with Russian he created one for himself with Russian officers actually so the Russian officers actually so the Russian officers actually so the Russian officers served in Iran from Iran officers served in Iran from Iran officers served in Iran from Iran 1880s up to the revolution of 1917. the 1880s up to the revolution of 1917. the 1880s up to the revolution of 1917. the collapse of the yeah so many revolutions collapse of the yeah so many revolutions collapse of the yeah so many revolutions so many revolutions and Reza shop was an so many revolutions and Reza shop was an so many revolutions and Reza shop was an officer in that Reza Khan was an officer officer in that Reza Khan was an officer officer in that Reza Khan was an officer in that first and he created a new in that first and he created a new in that first and he created a new monarchy for reasons that we needed to monarchy for reasons that we needed to monarchy for reasons that we needed to go to and Discord the palabi regime go to and Discord the palabi regime go to and Discord the palabi regime regime was a modernizing regime regime was a modernizing regime regime was a modernizing regime okay that brought a company in effect okay that brought a company in effect okay that brought a company in effect fulfilled many of the Ambitions of the fulfilled many of the Ambitions of the fulfilled many of the Ambitions of the Constitution many of the aspirations of Constitution many of the aspirations of Constitution many of the aspirations of the Constitution better communication the Constitution better communication the Constitution better communication but uh secular education but uh secular education but uh secular education um centralizes States and centralized um centralizes States and centralized um centralizes States and centralized Army Army Army better contact with the outside world better contact with the outside world better contact with the outside world greater urbanization that's what a greater urbanization that's what a greater urbanization that's what a modern state is all about modern state is all about modern state is all about and in that regard in a sense for the and in that regard in a sense for the and in that regard in a sense for the first 20 years up to the second world first 20 years up to the second world first 20 years up to the second world war was successful war was successful war was successful despite and more significant of all it despite and more significant of all it despite and more significant of all it managed to keep the European powers managed to keep the European powers managed to keep the European powers which is always interfering in the local which is always interfering in the local which is always interfering in the local Affairs of Iran in an amlex so they were

Affairs of Iran in an amlex so they were Affairs of Iran in an amlex so they were there there there in an arm length in an arm length in an arm length but they were also but they were also but they were also respecting the power of the state respecting the power of the state respecting the power of the state part of the Apollo State during the part of the Apollo State during the part of the Apollo State during the second second world war the same second second world war the same second second world war the same phenomenon phenomenon phenomenon as as as earlier interference led to the earlier interference led to the earlier interference led to the occupation of Iran by the Allied Forces occupation of Iran by the Allied Forces occupation of Iran by the Allied Forces the British from the south the Russians the British from the south the Russians the British from the south the Russians from the north from the north from the north the Red Army they took over Iran and of the Red Army they took over Iran and of the Red Army they took over Iran and of course the second world war yes from course the second world war yes from course the second world war yes from 1941 up to 1945 and of course when the 1941 up to 1945 and of course when the 1941 up to 1945 and of course when the when the Red Army refused to when the Red Army refused to when the Red Army refused to uh withdraw from Iranian Azerbaijan uh withdraw from Iranian Azerbaijan uh withdraw from Iranian Azerbaijan and with some and with some and with some thought of possible annexation of thought of possible annexation of thought of possible annexation of that Province there was a big issue in that Province there was a big issue in that Province there was a big issue in the possible Iran so after 1945 yes 1945 the possible Iran so after 1945 yes 1945 the possible Iran so after 1945 yes 1945 to 1946 there was a big to 1946 there was a big to 1946 there was a big Soviet Union getting greedy yes but Soviet Union getting greedy yes but Soviet Union getting greedy yes but eventually they agreed eventually Stalin eventually they agreed eventually Stalin eventually they agreed eventually Stalin agreed to leave agreed to leave agreed to leave the Azerbaijan province in the hope that the Azerbaijan province in the hope that the Azerbaijan province in the hope that it would get some concessions from Iran it would get some concessions from Iran it would get some concessions from Iran which in the oil of the Caspian era area which in the oil of the Caspian era area which in the oil of the Caspian era area which didn't work and it's a different which didn't work and it's a different which didn't work and it's a different story altogether but what happened is story altogether but what happened is story altogether but what happened is that in the post-war era that in the post-war era that in the post-war era between

between between 1944 45 and 1953 is a period of Greater 1944 45 and 1953 is a period of Greater 1944 45 and 1953 is a period of Greater uh democratization was that uh democratization was that uh democratization was that vessels dictatorship basically vessels dictatorship basically vessels dictatorship basically disappeared disappeared disappeared and this is where you would see and this is where you would see and this is where you would see political parties Free Press political parties Free Press political parties Free Press a lot of chaotic really a lot of chaotic really a lot of chaotic really as as democracies often are so something as as democracies often are so something as as democracies often are so something like was it was it officially a like was it was it officially a like was it was it officially a democracy yes it was it the market was democracy yes it was it the market was democracy yes it was it the market was there elections there were elections yes there elections there were elections yes there elections there were elections yes of course yes of course and they were of course yes of course and they were of course yes of course and they were very diverse political tendencies very diverse political tendencies very diverse political tendencies came to the picture including the to the came to the picture including the to the came to the picture including the to the party of Iran which is Communist Party party of Iran which is Communist Party party of Iran which is Communist Party of Iran this Communist Party of Iran is of Iran this Communist Party of Iran is of Iran this Communist Party of Iran is probably the biggest probably the biggest probably the biggest Communist Party of the whole of the Communist Party of the whole of the Communist Party of the whole of the Middle East and one of the biggest in Middle East and one of the biggest in Middle East and one of the biggest in the world actually at that time did the the world actually at that time did the the world actually at that time did the Soviet Union have a significant Soviet Union have a significant Soviet Union have a significant influence on uh of course we're influence on uh of course we're influence on uh of course we're basically following orders from the basically following orders from the basically following orders from the Soviets although they deny it but in Soviets although they deny it but in Soviets although they deny it but in reality that's the case yeah but what reality that's the case yeah but what reality that's the case yeah but what happened they were seen by the Americans happened they were seen by the Americans happened they were seen by the Americans during the Cold War as if as a threat during the Cold War as if as a threat during the Cold War as if as a threat and Iran was going through a period of and Iran was going through a period of and Iran was going through a period of demanding nationalization of his oil demanding nationalization of his oil demanding nationalization of his oil resources that's a very important resources that's a very important resources that's a very important episode with mosadir whom you might have episode with mosadir whom you might have episode with mosadir whom you might have heard about his name Dr Muhammad Musa

heard about his name Dr Muhammad Musa heard about his name Dr Muhammad Musa was the Prime Minister and the national was the Prime Minister and the national was the Prime Minister and the national charismatic leader charismatic leader charismatic leader from from from 1951 to 1953 prior to that he was a 1951 to 1953 prior to that he was a 1951 to 1953 prior to that he was a famous parliamentarian but this period famous parliamentarian but this period famous parliamentarian but this period was the Prime Minister of Iran and he was the Prime Minister of Iran and he was the Prime Minister of Iran and he nationalized the Iranian oil industry nationalized the Iranian oil industry nationalized the Iranian oil industry and the British didn't like it at all and the British didn't like it at all and the British didn't like it at all and eventually resulted in a famous crew and eventually resulted in a famous crew and eventually resulted in a famous crew which at least partly was supported by which at least partly was supported by which at least partly was supported by the funding the funding the funding and by the moral supports of the British and by the moral supports of the British and by the moral supports of the British and the Americans particularly by the and the Americans particularly by the and the Americans particularly by the emergence it was always emergence it was always emergence it was always seen as one of the earliest and the most seen as one of the earliest and the most seen as one of the earliest and the most successful CIA operations during the successful CIA operations during the successful CIA operations during the Cold War to see I had something to do Cold War to see I had something to do Cold War to see I had something to do with this of course that's one of the with this of course that's one of the with this of course that's one of the earliest operations of the CIA wait a earliest operations of the CIA wait a earliest operations of the CIA wait a minute what was yes of course what was minute what was yes of course what was minute what was yes of course what was the same what was the CIA doing CIA this the same what was the CIA doing CIA this the same what was the CIA doing CIA this is the time at the post for era in the is the time at the post for era in the is the time at the post for era in the 50s in the 50s 40s and the 50s 50s in the 50s 40s and the 50s 50s in the 50s 40s and the 50s the British Empire which was really the the British Empire which was really the the British Empire which was really the major superpower of the region after the major superpower of the region after the major superpower of the region after the collapse of the desires Empire collapse of the desires Empire collapse of the desires Empire gradually took the second gradually took the second gradually took the second seat seat seat to the Americans to where the newcomers to the Americans to where the newcomers to the Americans to where the newcomers and the great powers and the victors of and the great powers and the victors of and the great powers and the victors of the second World War the second World War the second World War and the Americans viewed Iran as an and the Americans viewed Iran as an and the Americans viewed Iran as an important important important uh uh as an important country since it

uh uh as an important country since it uh uh as an important country since it has the largest has the largest has the largest common borders with the Soviet Union common borders with the Soviet Union common borders with the Soviet Union and it's what I did the size was the and it's what I did the size was the and it's what I did the size was the Persian goldfish at the time was the Persian goldfish at the time was the Persian goldfish at the time was the greatest uh uh supplier of uh oil to the greatest uh uh supplier of uh oil to the greatest uh uh supplier of uh oil to the outside world and therefore the outside world and therefore the outside world and therefore the Americans uh had a particular interest Americans uh had a particular interest Americans uh had a particular interest in Iraq and in the earlier stages their in Iraq and in the earlier stages their in Iraq and in the earlier stages their interest was in the interest of the interest was in the interest of the interest was in the interest of the Iranian government because they wanted Iranian government because they wanted Iranian government because they wanted to get rid of both to get rid of both to get rid of both the Soviet Union which made the return the Soviet Union which made the return the Soviet Union which made the return in the first War era and of course the in the first War era and of course the in the first War era and of course the British that were gradually withdrawing British that were gradually withdrawing British that were gradually withdrawing from Iraq but they they had a full from Iraq but they they had a full from Iraq but they they had a full control over the anglo-iranian or control over the anglo-iranian or control over the anglo-iranian or company they changed the name to angular company they changed the name to angular company they changed the name to angular Iranian or company Iranian or company Iranian or company when the name of the country officially when the name of the country officially when the name of the country officially changed from Persia to Iran changed from Persia to Iran changed from Persia to Iran in the west in the west in the west the name of the company changed and they the name of the company changed and they the name of the company changed and they got into a huge dispute with the wasada got into a huge dispute with the wasada got into a huge dispute with the wasada government that eventually led to the government that eventually led to the government that eventually led to the coup of 1953 which eventually created it coup of 1953 which eventually created it coup of 1953 which eventually created it very very very uh very distressful memory uh very distressful memory uh very distressful memory in the minds of many of the Iranian in the minds of many of the Iranian in the minds of many of the Iranian nationalists that this was the betrayer nationalists that this was the betrayer nationalists that this was the betrayer of the great Powers the British and of the great Powers the British and of the great Powers the British and Americans yes CIA played a part because Americans yes CIA played a part because Americans yes CIA played a part because see I feared

see I feared see I feared contrary to the British that they were contrary to the British that they were contrary to the British that they were afraid of their own oil in Iran the CIA afraid of their own oil in Iran the CIA afraid of their own oil in Iran the CIA was afraid of the Soviet penetration in was afraid of the Soviet penetration in was afraid of the Soviet penetration in in the South and particularly because in the South and particularly because in the South and particularly because there was a very powerful there was a very powerful there was a very powerful a very powerful Communist party you know a very powerful Communist party you know a very powerful Communist party you know the two-day party of Iran the two-day party of Iran the two-day party of Iran so they so they so they gradually shifted between the Truman gradually shifted between the Truman gradually shifted between the Truman Administration and our Eisenhower Administration and our Eisenhower Administration and our Eisenhower Administration these are early days of Administration these are early days of Administration these are early days of the CIA and then they actually did the CIA and then they actually did the CIA and then they actually did participate uh to set their agents participate uh to set their agents participate uh to set their agents there's a long story to that and it there's a long story to that and it there's a long story to that and it eventually resulted in a successful coup eventually resulted in a successful coup eventually resulted in a successful coup that removed from Power what's the that removed from Power what's the that removed from Power what's the United States interest here why are they United States interest here why are they United States interest here why are they using CIA are they trying to make sure using CIA are they trying to make sure using CIA are they trying to make sure there's not too much centralization of there's not too much centralization of there's not too much centralization of power in this region they were afraid of power in this region they were afraid of power in this region they were afraid of the fact that the the fact that the the fact that the that of the Soviet Union and during the that of the Soviet Union and during the that of the Soviet Union and during the Cold War that was the cancer Cold War that was the cancer Cold War that was the cancer they actually almost want to protect they actually almost want to protect they actually almost want to protect Iran and its own Sovereign processes Iran and its own Sovereign processes Iran and its own Sovereign processes from the influence of the Soviets yes from the influence of the Soviets yes from the influence of the Soviets yes because they were afraid of the fact because they were afraid of the fact because they were afraid of the fact if Iran or at least this is part of the if Iran or at least this is part of the if Iran or at least this is part of the I'm simplifying a very complex picture I'm simplifying a very complex picture I'm simplifying a very complex picture but the but but the Americans basically but the but but the Americans basically but the but but the Americans basically were thinking that if Iran is going to were thinking that if Iran is going to were thinking that if Iran is going to be lost be lost be lost choose Soviet influence choose Soviet influence choose Soviet influence then eventually basically the all the

then eventually basically the all the then eventually basically the all the oil resources in the Persian Gulf are oil resources in the Persian Gulf are oil resources in the Persian Gulf are going to be threatened going to be threatened going to be threatened and therefore and this would basically and therefore and this would basically and therefore and this would basically is the National Security of the United is the National Security of the United is the National Security of the United States and all of the western allies States and all of the western allies States and all of the western allies European allies European allies European allies so in a sense this was the long arm of so in a sense this was the long arm of so in a sense this was the long arm of the CIA to try to the CIA to try to the CIA to try to try to make sure that that's not going try to make sure that that's not going try to make sure that that's not going to happen and then of course they'll be to happen and then of course they'll be to happen and then of course they'll be persuaded by the British because British persuaded by the British because British persuaded by the British because British were the old hand which were in Iran were the old hand which were in Iran were the old hand which were in Iran since the beginning of the 19th century since the beginning of the 19th century since the beginning of the 19th century they always had relations with Iran and they always had relations with Iran and they always had relations with Iran and so forth so they gradually replaced and so forth so they gradually replaced and so forth so they gradually replaced and and of course they don't want to give and of course they don't want to give and of course they don't want to give them this kind of a satanic view that them this kind of a satanic view that them this kind of a satanic view that American was a bad influence because American was a bad influence because American was a bad influence because they had also some very good influences they had also some very good influences they had also some very good influences in Iraq but this particular episode in Iraq but this particular episode in Iraq but this particular episode somehow somehow somehow shed dark lights shed dark lights shed dark lights on the American presence and was used on the American presence and was used on the American presence and was used that abused time and again particularly that abused time and again particularly that abused time and again particularly the revolution the revolution the revolution 1979 which was this great Satan idea 1979 which was this great Satan idea 1979 which was this great Satan idea that Khomeini created basically was that Khomeini created basically was that Khomeini created basically was based on the fact is 1953 you were based on the fact is 1953 you were based on the fact is 1953 you were responsible for the downfall of a responsible for the downfall of a responsible for the downfall of a national government in Iran which as a national government in Iran which as a national government in Iran which as a matter of fact he had no respect for it matter of fact he had no respect for it matter of fact he had no respect for it Romani had no respect for the national Romani had no respect for the national Romani had no respect for the national secular National liberals including secular National liberals including secular National liberals including Muhammad Musa there but he was using it

Muhammad Musa there but he was using it Muhammad Musa there but he was using it as a as a rhetorical tool for his own as a as a rhetorical tool for his own as a as a rhetorical tool for his own purposes but what happened is that after purposes but what happened is that after purposes but what happened is that after 1953 1953 1953 we see again the rise of authoritarian we see again the rise of authoritarian we see again the rise of authoritarian Muhammad result's power Muhammad result's power Muhammad result's power and then he is that's the Shah that's and then he is that's the Shah that's and then he is that's the Shah that's the Shah that we know as sure this is the Shah that we know as sure this is the Shah that we know as sure this is the son of research and uh technically the son of research and uh technically the son of research and uh technically what what is Shah is it actually is an what what is Shah is it actually is an what what is Shah is it actually is an old term impression old term impression old term impression that comes from a pre-islamic portion of that comes from a pre-islamic portion of that comes from a pre-islamic portion of ancient times in the context of ancient times in the context of ancient times in the context of democracy should it be seen as like a democracy should it be seen as like a democracy should it be seen as like a supreme leader King is the head of the supreme leader King is the head of the supreme leader King is the head of the executive power according to the executive power according to the executive power according to the Constitution of 1906. oh that's in the Constitution of 1906. oh that's in the Constitution of 1906. oh that's in the Constitution they actually yeah as a Constitution they actually yeah as a Constitution they actually yeah as a place in the Constitution but the actual place in the Constitution but the actual place in the Constitution but the actual term sure okay interesting what this term sure okay interesting what this term sure okay interesting what this show is a very old term yeah it's almost show is a very old term yeah it's almost show is a very old term yeah it's almost like a monarchic term like uh like a like a monarchic term like uh like a like a monarchic term like uh like a king yeah it is actually is the term king yeah it is actually is the term king yeah it is actually is the term peculiar to Iran I've written about it peculiar to Iran I've written about it peculiar to Iran I've written about it somewhere but because the term that the somewhere but because the term that the somewhere but because the term that the Western World in the ancient times has Western World in the ancient times has Western World in the ancient times has been Rex for royalty and the King been Rex for royalty and the King been Rex for royalty and the King in the Eastern World in India is right in the Eastern World in India is right in the Eastern World in India is right it's the same origin the same route it's the same origin the same route it's the same origin the same route Iran never shared that they had the idea Iran never shared that they had the idea Iran never shared that they had the idea of because the next Android I don't want of because the next Android I don't want of because the next Android I don't want to get into the too much of a etymology to get into the too much of a etymology to get into the too much of a etymology but this is an interesting one yeah Rex but this is an interesting one yeah Rex but this is an interesting one yeah Rex and Raj both means the one that opens

and Raj both means the one that opens and Raj both means the one that opens the road for the road for the road for basically in four set of religion okay basically in four set of religion okay basically in four set of religion okay um in uh enforcer of the right religion um in uh enforcer of the right religion um in uh enforcer of the right religion because Rex and Raj both have the uh because Rex and Raj both have the uh because Rex and Raj both have the uh after a typological uh origin of Rights after a typological uh origin of Rights after a typological uh origin of Rights you see and right means the right you see and right means the right you see and right means the right religion basically by the way there's so religion basically by the way there's so religion basically by the way there's so much beautiful language here I'm just much beautiful language here I'm just much beautiful language here I'm just looking at the the Persian constitution looking at the the Persian constitution looking at the the Persian constitution in 1906 and it says it's the in 1906 and it says it's the in 1906 and it says it's the constitution of the sublime state of constitution of the sublime state of constitution of the sublime state of Persia pajar Iran I mean just just the Persia pajar Iran I mean just just the Persia pajar Iran I mean just just the extra adjectives on top of this stuff is extra adjectives on top of this stuff is extra adjectives on top of this stuff is beautiful I mean yeah because that was beautiful I mean yeah because that was beautiful I mean yeah because that was actually the change that came about I actually the change that came about I actually the change that came about I don't want to go in too much into it but don't want to go in too much into it but don't want to go in too much into it but it was called as I pointed out before it was called as I pointed out before it was called as I pointed out before the guarded domains of Iraq yes they the guarded domains of Iraq yes they the guarded domains of Iraq yes they changed that to the sublime state of changed that to the sublime state of changed that to the sublime state of Iran during the Constitutional Iran during the Constitutional Iran during the Constitutional Revolution because they wanted to give a Revolution because they wanted to give a Revolution because they wanted to give a greater sense of centrality of this greater sense of centrality of this greater sense of centrality of this state yeah and Sublime was the term state yeah and Sublime was the term state yeah and Sublime was the term refused but also what permeates all this refused but also what permeates all this refused but also what permeates all this is a is a poetic I mean there is a is a is a poetic I mean there is a is a is a poetic I mean there is a history of poetry of course based on the history of poetry of course based on the history of poetry of course based on the culture it's just fascinating so I mean culture it's just fascinating so I mean culture it's just fascinating so I mean it's I I of course I don't speak the it's I I of course I don't speak the it's I I of course I don't speak the language but even in in Russian there's language but even in in Russian there's language but even in in Russian there's also also also a music a music a music to the soul of the people that to the soul of the people that to the soul of the people that represents itself that presents itself represents itself that presents itself represents itself that presents itself in the form of poetry and literature in in the form of poetry and literature in in the form of poetry and literature in the way that it doesn't in the in the

the way that it doesn't in the in the the way that it doesn't in the in the English-speaking world I don't know what English-speaking world I don't know what English-speaking world I don't know what that is there's um there's a Romantics that is there's um there's a Romantics that is there's um there's a Romantics like romantic romantic side that's right like romantic romantic side that's right like romantic romantic side that's right yeah I agree with you in Iran of course yeah I agree with you in Iran of course yeah I agree with you in Iran of course you know it is the time of the you know it is the time of the you know it is the time of the Constitutional Revolution it's a time of Constitutional Revolution it's a time of Constitutional Revolution it's a time of great poetry great poetry great poetry this kind of a patriotic this kind of a patriotic this kind of a patriotic sentiments that comes through poetry sentiments that comes through poetry sentiments that comes through poetry plays a very important part uh of course plays a very important part uh of course plays a very important part uh of course these days poetry has kind of declined these days poetry has kind of declined these days poetry has kind of declined and instead you see the visual image and instead you see the visual image and instead you see the visual image that is at the center that's why Cinema that is at the center that's why Cinema that is at the center that's why Cinema is so important because these days with is so important because these days with is so important because these days with their Tick Tock yeah let me finish this their Tick Tock yeah let me finish this their Tick Tock yeah let me finish this about this period of biometricia he about this period of biometricia he about this period of biometricia he built up because he received the greater built up because he received the greater built up because he received the greater income income income from the oil revenue and it built up a from the oil revenue and it built up a from the oil revenue and it built up a very strong state with a strong security very strong state with a strong security very strong state with a strong security Force Force Force a strong security apparatus which is the a strong security apparatus which is the a strong security apparatus which is the savark there's a uh which is a acronym savark there's a uh which is a acronym savark there's a uh which is a acronym for the security force in security for the security force in security for the security force in security organization organization organization and he of course unfortunately in the and he of course unfortunately in the and he of course unfortunately in the 1960s and 70s particularly 1970s 1960s and 70s particularly 1970s 1960s and 70s particularly 1970s basically suppress the voices of or basically suppress the voices of or basically suppress the voices of or possibility of any kind of a mass possibility of any kind of a mass possibility of any kind of a mass participation in the political uh participation in the political uh participation in the political uh process it became very much an process it became very much an process it became very much an authoritarian regime with its own authoritarian regime with its own authoritarian regime with its own technocrats

technocrats technocrats very much a modernist very much a modernist very much a modernist vision of of of of Iran's future and vision of of of of Iran's future and vision of of of of Iran's future and almost kind of Messianic that he was almost kind of Messianic that he was almost kind of Messianic that he was hoping that Iran in a decade would hoping that Iran in a decade would hoping that Iran in a decade would become the fifth most powerful estate in become the fifth most powerful estate in become the fifth most powerful estate in the world and the riches as he would the world and the riches as he would the world and the riches as he would have said the gates of the great have said the gates of the great have said the gates of the great civilization very much in the mind civilization very much in the mind civilization very much in the mind had this image of ancient Iran of the had this image of ancient Iran of the had this image of ancient Iran of the community Empire and we want to go back community Empire and we want to go back community Empire and we want to go back to that greatness of the archimedian to that greatness of the archimedian to that greatness of the archimedian Empire somewhat rather naive and very Empire somewhat rather naive and very Empire somewhat rather naive and very nationalistic and crude fashion and what nationalistic and crude fashion and what nationalistic and crude fashion and what happened is that as a result there was happened is that as a result there was happened is that as a result there was built up some kind of a resistance from built up some kind of a resistance from built up some kind of a resistance from the intellectuals from the left the intellectuals from the left the intellectuals from the left eventually resulting in a kind of a eventually resulting in a kind of a eventually resulting in a kind of a protest movement as I said by 1977 1978. protest movement as I said by 1977 1978. protest movement as I said by 1977 1978. then of course the question that comes then of course the question that comes then of course the question that comes to mind and the probably it you have you to mind and the probably it you have you to mind and the probably it you have you you would like to know about is the fact you would like to know about is the fact you would like to know about is the fact that why it becomes religious why it's that why it becomes religious why it's that why it becomes religious why it's become Islamic if it's the popular become Islamic if it's the popular become Islamic if it's the popular you know nationalist liberal tendency of you know nationalist liberal tendency of you know nationalist liberal tendency of opening up the political uh uh space opening up the political uh uh space opening up the political uh uh space and along greater participation going and along greater participation going and along greater participation going back to the Constitution back to the Constitution back to the Constitution of 1906 1907 why it's all of a sudden it of 1906 1907 why it's all of a sudden it of 1906 1907 why it's all of a sudden it becomes Khomeini where does he come from

becomes Khomeini where does he come from becomes Khomeini where does he come from the reason for that at least in a the reason for that at least in a the reason for that at least in a concise fashion is the fact that on one concise fashion is the fact that on one concise fashion is the fact that on one area area area that that that after the greatest suppression of all after the greatest suppression of all after the greatest suppression of all the other voices remained the other voices remained the other voices remained open was religion masks open was religion masks open was religion masks the mullahs on the pulpit the mullahs on the pulpit the mullahs on the pulpit and the message that gradually shifted and the message that gradually shifted and the message that gradually shifted from the older traditional message of from the older traditional message of from the older traditional message of the Sharia of Islam I mean all the rules the Sharia of Islam I mean all the rules the Sharia of Islam I mean all the rules and regulations of how one has to live and regulations of how one has to live and regulations of how one has to live into something very political into something very political into something very political and not only political but also radical and not only political but also radical and not only political but also radical political political political so so so in the whole period from the in the whole period from the in the whole period from the Constitutional Revolution to the Constitutional Revolution to the Constitutional Revolution to the revolution of 1979 revolution of 1979 revolution of 1979 basically the religious establishment basically the religious establishment basically the religious establishment gradually was pushed to the opposition gradually was pushed to the opposition gradually was pushed to the opposition they were not originally very they were not originally very they were not originally very conservative supported us of State as conservative supported us of State as conservative supported us of State as the Catholic church for instance was the Catholic church for instance was the Catholic church for instance was supported of majority of the supported of majority of the supported of majority of the authoritarian governments around the authoritarian governments around the authoritarian governments around the world world world but the politicization but the politicization but the politicization was the result of isolation was the result of isolation was the result of isolation because they were left out of the system because they were left out of the system because they were left out of the system and while in isolation they did they did and while in isolation they did they did and while in isolation they did they did not they were not successful

not they were not successful not they were not successful in in in trying to reform themselves to try to trying to reform themselves to try to trying to reform themselves to try to become to try to find answers to many of become to try to find answers to many of become to try to find answers to many of the questions from Modern Times what the questions from Modern Times what the questions from Modern Times what happens to women what happens to civil happens to women what happens to civil happens to women what happens to civil rights what happens to a civil society rights what happens to a civil society rights what happens to a civil society how the modern law and individual how the modern law and individual how the modern law and individual freedoms have to be defined in Islamic freedoms have to be defined in Islamic freedoms have to be defined in Islamic terms how to separate uh religion and terms how to separate uh religion and terms how to separate uh religion and state or how to separate the religion state or how to separate the religion state or how to separate the religion and state these issues were never and state these issues were never and state these issues were never addressed addressed addressed what happened is that there was this what happened is that there was this what happened is that there was this bypass through political bypass through political bypass through political uh Islam and uh Islam and uh Islam and revolutionary Islam as it gradually they revolutionary Islam as it gradually they revolutionary Islam as it gradually they learned you know that this is the bypass learned you know that this is the bypass learned you know that this is the bypass bypass to power basically to become bypass to power basically to become bypass to power basically to become again a voice in the society and again a voice in the society and again a voice in the society and eventually a prominent voice and eventually a prominent voice and eventually a prominent voice and eventually monolithic voice and the eventually monolithic voice and the eventually monolithic voice and the society that's the process that led into society that's the process that led into society that's the process that led into the revolution of 1979 basically this the revolution of 1979 basically this the revolution of 1979 basically this period period period greater attention was paid to religion greater attention was paid to religion greater attention was paid to religion even among the secular middle classes even among the secular middle classes even among the secular middle classes who were alienated who were alienated who were alienated for a very long time because of this for a very long time because of this for a very long time because of this extensive modernization of the pallavi extensive modernization of the pallavi extensive modernization of the pallavi period they had they didn't have a sense period they had they didn't have a sense period they had they didn't have a sense of that old of that old of that old monoliths with their turbans monoliths with their turbans monoliths with their turbans but they became they had it kind of aura but they became they had it kind of aura but they became they had it kind of aura in this period yes they are those who

in this period yes they are those who in this period yes they are those who remain not corrupted remain not corrupted remain not corrupted they are the people who basically went they are the people who basically went they are the people who basically went against the suppression of the palavi against the suppression of the palavi against the suppression of the palavi regime and Khomeini became a leader a regime and Khomeini became a leader a regime and Khomeini became a leader a symbol of that nobody ever thought in symbol of that nobody ever thought in symbol of that nobody ever thought in the earlier stages the earlier stages the earlier stages and bank this very excited multitudes and bank this very excited multitudes and bank this very excited multitudes that came to the streets of the Iranian that came to the streets of the Iranian that came to the streets of the Iranian cities in 1979 or 1978 actually cities in 1979 or 1978 actually cities in 1979 or 1978 actually thought that this this old ball line thought that this this old ball line thought that this this old ball line with 70s with 70s with 70s that all of a sudden has appeared from that all of a sudden has appeared from that all of a sudden has appeared from the najaf the najaf the najaf through Paris to Tehran is going to take through Paris to Tehran is going to take through Paris to Tehran is going to take over and create a autocracy a religious over and create a autocracy a religious over and create a autocracy a religious autocracy we have to back up for just a autocracy we have to back up for just a autocracy we have to back up for just a second who who is how many uh who you second who who is how many uh who you second who who is how many uh who you just you just mentioned a few desperate just you just mentioned a few desperate just you just mentioned a few desperate facts about the man yeah he was the facts about the man yeah he was the facts about the man yeah he was the person that took power in 1979 supreme person that took power in 1979 supreme person that took power in 1979 supreme leader of Iran yes some you mentioned leader of Iran yes some you mentioned leader of Iran yes some you mentioned something about Paris something about something about Paris something about something about Paris something about being in the 70s yes what should we know being in the 70s yes what should we know being in the 70s yes what should we know about the guy oh yeah about the guy oh yeah about the guy oh yeah who eventually was known as Imam Gomez who eventually was known as Imam Gomez who eventually was known as Imam Gomez he was kind of promoted to a even more he was kind of promoted to a even more he was kind of promoted to a even more Sublime position okay okay uh can we I'm Sublime position okay okay uh can we I'm Sublime position okay okay uh can we I'm just a million tangents uh Ayatollah just a million tangents uh Ayatollah just a million tangents uh Ayatollah Imam what do these terms mean well Imam what do these terms mean well Imam what do these terms mean well Ayatollah means the Ayatollah means the Ayatollah means the sign of God sign of God sign of God in the course of the 19th century or

in the course of the 19th century or in the course of the 19th century or early 20th century as the religious early 20th century as the religious early 20th century as the religious establishment gradually lost its establishment gradually lost its establishment gradually lost its greater presence in the society and greater presence in the society and greater presence in the society and these prominent places in society they these prominent places in society they these prominent places in society they had some kind different inflation in had some kind different inflation in had some kind different inflation in titles titles titles so they gave themselves a more Grand so they gave themselves a more Grand so they gave themselves a more Grand titles yeah more adjectives more titles yeah more adjectives more titles yeah more adjectives more adjectives more Grand titers such as adjectives more Grand titers such as adjectives more Grand titers such as Ayatollah that became a kind of a Ayatollah that became a kind of a Ayatollah that became a kind of a highest rank of the religious hierarchy highest rank of the religious hierarchy highest rank of the religious hierarchy but it incidentally was in on you know but it incidentally was in on you know but it incidentally was in on you know unofficial hierarchy there was not it's unofficial hierarchy there was not it's unofficial hierarchy there was not it's not like the Chris like Catholic Church not like the Chris like Catholic Church not like the Chris like Catholic Church that you have you know Bishops and you that you have you know Bishops and you that you have you know Bishops and you know Federer it was very unofficial know Federer it was very unofficial know Federer it was very unofficial mother and he was an Ayatollah it was mother and he was an Ayatollah it was mother and he was an Ayatollah it was eventually recognized as an Ayatollah he eventually recognized as an Ayatollah he eventually recognized as an Ayatollah he was in the first Ayatollah no no no not was in the first Ayatollah no no no not was in the first Ayatollah no no no not at all the ayatollahs were before him at all the ayatollahs were before him at all the ayatollahs were before him ever since the beginning of the century ever since the beginning of the century ever since the beginning of the century but he was eventually recognized as an but he was eventually recognized as an but he was eventually recognized as an Ayatollah and if I want to study this Ayatollah and if I want to study this Ayatollah and if I want to study this way way way Ayatollah how many was born in 1900 Ayatollah how many was born in 1900 Ayatollah how many was born in 1900 and in a sense all these tremendous and in a sense all these tremendous and in a sense all these tremendous change that Iran witnessed in the course change that Iran witnessed in the course change that Iran witnessed in the course of the of the of the 20th century was in a sense 20th century was in a sense 20th century was in a sense materializing this person materializing this person materializing this person he become he become he become a mullah of a lower rank went to the

a mullah of a lower rank went to the a mullah of a lower rank went to the traditional mattresses to the traditional mattresses to the traditional mattresses to the traditional traditional traditional centers for the education of the centers for the education of the centers for the education of the seminarians seminarians seminarians never had a secular education had a very complex Islamic education on had a very complex Islamic education on this one-hand jurisprudence on the other this one-hand jurisprudence on the other this one-hand jurisprudence on the other hand probably a little bit of Islamic hand probably a little bit of Islamic hand probably a little bit of Islamic philosophy and mysticism which is philosophy and mysticism which is philosophy and mysticism which is unusual for the Juris for the for the unusual for the Juris for the for the unusual for the Juris for the for the factory as they call them this religious factory as they call them this religious factory as they call them this religious Scholars or or legal Scholars of Islam Scholars or or legal Scholars of Islam Scholars or or legal Scholars of Islam and then he in the 1960s and then he in the 1960s and then he in the 1960s when he was residing in Tehran and when he was residing in Tehran and when he was residing in Tehran and gradually becoming more important gradually becoming more important gradually becoming more important he became a voice of opposition against he became a voice of opposition against he became a voice of opposition against the Shah the Shah the Shah and the reason for opposition uh in the and the reason for opposition uh in the and the reason for opposition uh in the 1960 early 1960s was the fact that the 1960 early 1960s was the fact that the 1960 early 1960s was the fact that the shot shot shot carried through a series of carried through a series of carried through a series of extensive extensive extensive modernization policies of which the most modernization policies of which the most modernization policies of which the most important was the land reform important was the land reform important was the land reform so in effect the land distribution that so in effect the land distribution that so in effect the land distribution that took place in the early 60s took place in the early 60s took place in the early 60s removed or weakened greatly that class removed or weakened greatly that class removed or weakened greatly that class of land owners from the ancient from the of land owners from the ancient from the of land owners from the ancient from the 19th century 19th century 19th century and

and and he uh Khomeini saw himself as a voice of he uh Khomeini saw himself as a voice of he uh Khomeini saw himself as a voice of that old class that old class that old class that uh felt that actually declared that that uh felt that actually declared that that uh felt that actually declared that this land distribution is on Islamic this land distribution is on Islamic this land distribution is on Islamic according to the Islamic law according to the Islamic law according to the Islamic law properties properties properties a property is honored and you cannot a property is honored and you cannot a property is honored and you cannot just just just no matter how much and how large are no matter how much and how large are no matter how much and how large are these states that the landowning class these states that the landowning class these states that the landowning class has the government has no right to has the government has no right to has the government has no right to redistribute it even Among The Peasants redistribute it even Among The Peasants redistribute it even Among The Peasants among among the among among the among among the people who are killing the land people who are killing the land people who are killing the land so that was a major issue Shaw also gave so that was a major issue Shaw also gave so that was a major issue Shaw also gave the right of the right of the right of vote to women vote to women vote to women and that also he objected is that women and that also he objected is that women and that also he objected is that women should not have a right can we just should not have a right can we just should not have a right can we just Linger on the Islamic law Linger on the Islamic law Linger on the Islamic law How firm and clear How firm and clear How firm and clear is the Islamic law that he was is the Islamic law that he was is the Islamic law that he was representing and embodying is this um representing and embodying is this um representing and embodying is this um codified codified yes that's a good term codified codified yes that's a good term codified codified yes that's a good term yeah that's another issue not only the yeah that's another issue not only the yeah that's another issue not only the hierarchy was unofficial but also uh Islamic law particularly but also uh Islamic law particularly Shiloh Shiloh Shiloh did not have any

uh codified system uh codified system because this religious Authority is because this religious Authority is because this religious Authority is always resisted always resisted always resisted becoming under a becoming under a becoming under a umbrella of a more codified system of umbrella of a more codified system of umbrella of a more codified system of Islamic law because they were outside Islamic law because they were outside Islamic law because they were outside the state in essence civil civil law was the state in essence civil civil law was the state in essence civil civil law was in the hand of the religious in the hand of the religious in the hand of the religious establishment they had their own courts establishment they had their own courts establishment they had their own courts independent of the state but other independent of the state but other independent of the state but other matters of legal matters was in the hand matters of legal matters was in the hand matters of legal matters was in the hand of the government there was a kind of in of the government there was a kind of in of the government there was a kind of in de facto division between these two de facto division between these two de facto division between these two institutions State versus the religious institutions State versus the religious institutions State versus the religious establishment establishment establishment therefore it was not codified so he therefore it was not codified so he therefore it was not codified so he could declare that this is unofficial or could declare that this is unofficial or could declare that this is unofficial or I said illegal according to the Islamic I said illegal according to the Islamic I said illegal according to the Islamic law that you would distributed land to law that you would distributed land to law that you would distributed land to the presence and another must ahead or the presence and another must ahead or the presence and another must ahead or another religious Authority would say no another religious Authority would say no another religious Authority would say no no it's perfectly fine because he would no it's perfectly fine because he would no it's perfectly fine because he would has a different reading of the law so has a different reading of the law so has a different reading of the law so that being in mind that adds to the that being in mind that adds to the that being in mind that adds to the complexity of the picture he in the 1963 complexity of the picture he in the 1963 complexity of the picture he in the 1963 there was a period of uprising of the there was a period of uprising of the there was a period of uprising of the supporters of Ayatollah Khomeini supporters of Ayatollah Khomeini supporters of Ayatollah Khomeini that was the turning point in a sense to that was the turning point in a sense to that was the turning point in a sense to try to try to try to politicize the religious politicize the religious politicize the religious supporters of ayatulate who were loyal supporters of ayatulate who were loyal supporters of ayatulate who were loyal to other Harmony and in a sense all the to other Harmony and in a sense all the to other Harmony and in a sense all the community of more religiously orientated community of more religiously orientated community of more religiously orientated against the secular policies of the Shah against the secular policies of the Shah against the secular policies of the Shah and against of course the dictatorship

and against of course the dictatorship and against of course the dictatorship of the show so that's where the of the show so that's where the of the show so that's where the religious movement became a political religious movement became a political religious movement became a political party in 1963 is the first moment it's a party in 1963 is the first moment it's a party in 1963 is the first moment it's a huge Uprising and the government huge Uprising and the government huge Uprising and the government suppressed it suppressed it suppressed it but then suppression yes would start to but then suppression yes would start to but then suppression yes would start to build of course and he was sent to Exile build of course and he was sent to Exile build of course and he was sent to Exile he went to najaf which is this great he went to najaf which is this great he went to najaf which is this great Center in southern so it became a martyr Center in southern so it became a martyr Center in southern so it became a martyr on top of this at the Martyr he was on top of this at the Martyr he was on top of this at the Martyr he was probably even forgotten to some extent probably even forgotten to some extent probably even forgotten to some extent but not it was forgotten for the but not it was forgotten for the but not it was forgotten for the for the secular for the secular for the secular middle class but not to those supporters middle class but not to those supporters middle class but not to those supporters of his who were paying him their dues of his who were paying him their dues of his who were paying him their dues because in Islam you would paid use to because in Islam you would paid use to because in Islam you would paid use to religious leaders you know there's religious leaders you know there's religious leaders you know there's religious Jews and arms that you put pay religious Jews and arms that you put pay religious Jews and arms that you put pay to the clerical authorities and they to the clerical authorities and they to the clerical authorities and they redistribute them among their own redistribute them among their own redistribute them among their own students and so forth so they built students and so forth so they built students and so forth so they built actually a network of loyalty based on actually a network of loyalty based on actually a network of loyalty based on this uh donations and these donations uh this uh donations and these donations uh this uh donations and these donations uh that's received by atolo Khomeini was that's received by atolo Khomeini was that's received by atolo Khomeini was very effectively through his network was very effectively through his network was very effectively through his network was distributed even if he was in Exile distributed even if he was in Exile distributed even if he was in Exile asadira asadira asadira so the 1977 1978 so the 1977 1978 so the 1977 1978 when the situation changed and there was when the situation changed and there was when the situation changed and there was a little bit of opening a little bit of opening a little bit of opening in the political climate then you saw that Ayatollah Khomeini

then you saw that Ayatollah Khomeini starts sending cassette messages that starts sending cassette messages that starts sending cassette messages that was his mean of communication but was his mean of communication but was his mean of communication but sending cassettes and cassettes were sending cassettes and cassettes were sending cassettes and cassettes were sent through the country by his Network sent through the country by his Network sent through the country by his Network so or declarations and saying first that so or declarations and saying first that so or declarations and saying first that we would like to see a greater we would like to see a greater we would like to see a greater democratization and the Shah has to democratization and the Shah has to democratization and the Shah has to abide by the Constitution of 1907 abide by the Constitution of 1907 abide by the Constitution of 1907 this is a constitution this is a this is a constitution this is a this is a constitution this is a democratic system and so forth was he democratic system and so forth was he democratic system and so forth was he charismatic well it depends who would charismatic well it depends who would charismatic well it depends who would call what do you call charismatic yeah call what do you call charismatic yeah call what do you call charismatic yeah the long beard it was kind of a man in the long beard it was kind of a man in the long beard it was kind of a man in turban and the Gown which was a very turban and the Gown which was a very turban and the Gown which was a very unusual leadership unusual leadership unusual leadership for people who were much more accustomed for people who were much more accustomed for people who were much more accustomed to the civilian clothing or to the to the civilian clothing or to the to the civilian clothing or to the equipments of the Shaw's military equipments of the Shaw's military equipments of the Shaw's military uniforms that he used to wear but I also uniforms that he used to wear but I also uniforms that he used to wear but I also mean like he's a man I was able to take mean like he's a man I was able to take mean like he's a man I was able to take power to become popular sufficiently power to become popular sufficiently power to become popular sufficiently popular so like I I would like is it the popular so like I I would like is it the popular so like I I would like is it the ideas is it an accident or is it the man ideas is it an accident or is it the man ideas is it an accident or is it the man himself the Charisma or something about himself the Charisma or something about himself the Charisma or something about the man that led to this particular the man that led to this particular the man that led to this particular person person person basically changing the tide of history basically changing the tide of history basically changing the tide of history in this part of the world in a way in this part of the world in a way in this part of the world in a way unexpected all the above that you unexpected all the above that you unexpected all the above that you mentioned or was it just the beard mentioned or was it just the beard mentioned or was it just the beard no I think no it's beyond the appearance

no I think no it's beyond the appearance no I think no it's beyond the appearance because the appearance is greatly helps because the appearance is greatly helps because the appearance is greatly helps as you know yeah you know in the 20th as you know yeah you know in the 20th as you know yeah you know in the 20th century appearance is helpful yeah century appearance is helpful yeah century appearance is helpful yeah pictures for propaganda for messaging pictures for propaganda for messaging pictures for propaganda for messaging that's an important factor and he wasn't that's an important factor and he wasn't that's an important factor and he wasn't uh kind of a adamant uh kind of a adamant uh kind of a adamant and very severe in his own positions in his own positions he could appear very uncompromising he could appear very uncompromising he could appear very uncompromising and he had a sense of confidence and he had a sense of confidence and he had a sense of confidence self-confidence self-confidence self-confidence that we truly everybody else lacked that we truly everybody else lacked that we truly everybody else lacked and and and he was a man of opportunity he was a man of opportunity he was a man of opportunity as soon as he would see that as soon as he would see that as soon as he would see that a chance an opportunity would open up a chance an opportunity would open up a chance an opportunity would open up he would jump on it he would jump on it he would jump on it and that's what he did basically as more and that's what he did basically as more and that's what he did basically as more the political space opened the the political space opened the the political space opened the weaknesses of the shortest government weaknesses of the shortest government weaknesses of the shortest government became more evident his indecision became more evident his indecision became more evident his indecision became more evident became more evident became more evident his lack of confidence became more his lack of confidence became more his lack of confidence became more evident evident evident Khomeini managed to move further into Khomeini managed to move further into Khomeini managed to move further into the center of the movement because he the center of the movement because he the center of the movement because he was the only Authority that had this was the only Authority that had this was the only Authority that had this network of support through the masks network of support through the masks network of support through the masks through the people who paid through the people who paid through the people who paid homage to him

homage to him homage to him who followed him because there's a sense who followed him because there's a sense who followed him because there's a sense of following of following of following of the religious leader in shiza you are of the religious leader in shiza you are of the religious leader in shiza you are a follower of this Authority follower of a follower of this Authority follower of a follower of this Authority follower of that Society that Society that Society and he's basically created and he's basically created and he's basically created an environment in which people an environment in which people an environment in which people looked upon him as a kind of a Messianic looked upon him as a kind of a Messianic looked upon him as a kind of a Messianic figure yeah figure yeah figure yeah that came to save Iran that came to save Iran that came to save Iran from what they considered at the time from what they considered at the time from what they considered at the time the problems of uh dictatorship under the problems of uh dictatorship under the problems of uh dictatorship under the shore the shore the shore so there's not a suspicion about Islamic so there's not a suspicion about Islamic so there's not a suspicion about Islamic law being the primary law of the law being the primary law of the law being the primary law of the language people had very little sense language people had very little sense language people had very little sense that what Islamic law is all about that what Islamic law is all about that what Islamic law is all about because the secular education has left because the secular education has left because the secular education has left that into the old religious schools this that into the old religious schools this that into the old religious schools this is not something that ordinary educated is not something that ordinary educated is not something that ordinary educated Iranian who goes to the universities is Iranian who goes to the universities is Iranian who goes to the universities is going to learn and therefore there is a going to learn and therefore there is a going to learn and therefore there is a sense of idealization that there is sense of idealization that there is sense of idealization that there is something great there that is and there something great there that is and there something great there that is and there were quite a number of intellectuals were quite a number of intellectuals were quite a number of intellectuals who also viewed this kind of an idea of who also viewed this kind of an idea of who also viewed this kind of an idea of they would refer to as this toxication they would refer to as this toxication they would refer to as this toxication that is this civilization of the West that is this civilization of the West that is this civilization of the West that has brought with it that has brought with it that has brought with it all the modernity that we see around all the modernity that we see around all the modernity that we see around ourselves has ourselves has ourselves has enormous Sinister features into it and

enormous Sinister features into it and enormous Sinister features into it and it has taken away from us our it has taken away from us our it has taken away from us our authenticity authenticity authenticity that was the thing that there is that was the thing that there is that was the thing that there is something authentic that should be something authentic that should be something authentic that should be protected and therefore a man in that protected and therefore a man in that protected and therefore a man in that kind of a Garb and appearance kind of a Garb and appearance kind of a Garb and appearance received as a source received as a source received as a source for return to this originality of their for return to this originality of their for return to this originality of their own culture authenticity of their own own culture authenticity of their own own culture authenticity of their own culture and he perfectly took advantage of that that's how many took advantage of that that's how many tricky advantage of it and the circle tricky advantage of it and the circle tricky advantage of it and the circle around him I around him I around him I expensive everybody else which she expensive everybody else which she expensive everybody else which she managed in the course of 1979 to 1989 managed in the course of 1979 to 1989 managed in the course of 1979 to 1989 which he passed away it died in the 10 which he passed away it died in the 10 which he passed away it died in the 10 years during this period managed to years during this period managed to years during this period managed to basically transform basically transform basically transform the Iranian Society the Iranian Society the Iranian Society to create institutions of the Islamic to create institutions of the Islamic to create institutions of the Islamic Republic Republic Republic and to acquire himself the position of and to acquire himself the position of and to acquire himself the position of the Guardian jurists the Guardian jurists the Guardian jurists that was something completely new it that was something completely new it that was something completely new it didn't ever exist didn't ever exist didn't ever exist before as a matter of fact as you might before as a matter of fact as you might before as a matter of fact as you might know know know the model of government that a religious the model of government that a religious the model of government that a religious establishment takes over the states establishment takes over the states establishment takes over the states is unprecedented throughout the course is unprecedented throughout the course is unprecedented throughout the course of Iranian history throughout the course of Iranian history throughout the course of Iranian history throughout the course of the Islamic history I would say this

of the Islamic history I would say this of the Islamic history I would say this is the first example and probably the is the first example and probably the is the first example and probably the only example only example only example of a of a regime of a of a regime of a of a regime that religious establishment that has that religious establishment that has that religious establishment that has always in the course of Iranian history always in the course of Iranian history always in the course of Iranian history ever since I would say probably at the ever since I would say probably at the ever since I would say probably at the 16th century if not earlier 16th century if not earlier 16th century if not earlier has been always has been always has been always separate from this state separate from this state separate from this state and always kind of collaborating with and always kind of collaborating with and always kind of collaborating with this state in a with a certain tensions this state in a with a certain tensions this state in a with a certain tensions in between the two of them there were in between the two of them there were in between the two of them there were two basically as they would call two basically as they would call two basically as they would call themselves the two pillars of stability themselves the two pillars of stability themselves the two pillars of stability in the society in the society in the society that situation changed for the first that situation changed for the first that situation changed for the first time the religious establishment took time the religious establishment took time the religious establishment took over over over the power of this state the power of this state the power of this state and that's at the core of what we see and that's at the core of what we see and that's at the core of what we see today as a major issue today as a major issue today as a major issue for Iranian Society because for Iranian Society because for Iranian Society because these are basically that old balance these are basically that old balance these are basically that old balance between the religion and the state which between the religion and the state which between the religion and the state which was kind of de facto was kind of de facto was kind of de facto uh separation of the authorities of the uh separation of the authorities of the uh separation of the authorities of the two two two uh has been violated and now you have uh has been violated and now you have uh has been violated and now you have empowered if your theocracy in effect empowered if your theocracy in effect empowered if your theocracy in effect which of course only in the on the on in which of course only in the on the on in which of course only in the on the on in its appearances theocracy deep down it's its appearances theocracy deep down it's its appearances theocracy deep down it's a in my opinion is the brutal fascist a in my opinion is the brutal fascist a in my opinion is the brutal fascist regime that it stays in power but it has regime that it stays in power but it has regime that it stays in power but it has the appearance of religion into it so

the appearance of religion into it so the appearance of religion into it so this is really the story of the this is really the story of the this is really the story of the revolution revolution revolution and as a result of that the Iranian and as a result of that the Iranian and as a result of that the Iranian middle classes greatly suffered it's not middle classes greatly suffered it's not middle classes greatly suffered it's not without a reason that you see 4 million without a reason that you see 4 million without a reason that you see 4 million Iranians abroad because basically the Iranians abroad because basically the Iranians abroad because basically the emergence of this new power emergence of this new power emergence of this new power gradually gradually gradually uh isolated or marginalized the secular uh isolated or marginalized the secular uh isolated or marginalized the secular middle class who could not survive under middle class who could not survive under middle class who could not survive under that regime that regime that regime and gradually moved out and gradually moved out and gradually moved out uh in the course of perhaps 30 40 years uh in the course of perhaps 30 40 years uh in the course of perhaps 30 40 years up to now Iran has the largest I think up to now Iran has the largest I think up to now Iran has the largest I think I'm right to say so has the largest I'm right to say so has the largest I'm right to say so has the largest brain drain in any country in the world brain drain in any country in the world brain drain in any country in the world according to its population so according to its population so according to its population so fascinating that um how much of a weird fascinating that um how much of a weird fascinating that um how much of a weird Quirk of history is it that Quirk of history is it that Quirk of history is it that uh that religion uh that religion uh that religion would take hold in a country like does would take hold in a country like does would take hold in a country like does it have to do with the individual it have to do with the individual it have to do with the individual it seems like if we re ran the 20th it seems like if we re ran the 20th it seems like if we re ran the 20th century century century uh a thousand times uh a thousand times uh a thousand times we would get the uh 79 Revolution we would get the uh 79 Revolution we would get the uh 79 Revolution resulting in um Islamic law like less resulting in um Islamic law like less resulting in um Islamic law like less than than than you know one percent of the time it you know one percent of the time it you know one percent of the time it feels like or no what which percentage feels like or no what which percentage feels like or no what which percentage would you put well I think has something would you put well I think has something would you put well I think has something to do to do to do with the very complex nature

with the very complex nature with the very complex nature of how Iran evolved of how Iran evolved of how Iran evolved over a long period of time since the over a long period of time since the over a long period of time since the 16th century that's why if I would for a 16th century that's why if I would for a 16th century that's why if I would for a moment talk about what I have written moment talk about what I have written moment talk about what I have written I've written a book that's called Iran I've written a book that's called Iran I've written a book that's called Iran and modern history and it does not start and modern history and it does not start and modern history and it does not start in the 20th century it starts in the in the 20th century it starts in the in the 20th century it starts in the 16th century yeah because that's what I 16th century yeah because that's what I 16th century yeah because that's what I have argued that this complex process have argued that this complex process have argued that this complex process that at the end of the day resulted in that at the end of the day resulted in that at the end of the day resulted in what we see around us today is something what we see around us today is something what we see around us today is something that was in making for a very long time that was in making for a very long time that was in making for a very long time and religion was a big part of it she and religion was a big part of it she and religion was a big part of it she and the the the Messiah complex the and the the the Messiah complex the and the the the Messiah complex the exactly the the longing for this great exactly the the longing for this great exactly the the longing for this great vision of a great nation that somehow is vision of a great nation that somehow is vision of a great nation that somehow is um um um the sublime nation that can only be the sublime nation that can only be the sublime nation that can only be fully Sublime through uh through fully Sublime through uh through fully Sublime through uh through religion or at the time it was thought religion or at the time it was thought religion or at the time it was thought that is true religion ever since then that is true religion ever since then that is true religion ever since then it's disillusionment with that image it's disillusionment with that image it's disillusionment with that image yeah or at least a process of this yeah or at least a process of this yeah or at least a process of this illusionment the outcome of it is what illusionment the outcome of it is what illusionment the outcome of it is what we see today basically that process of we see today basically that process of we see today basically that process of 40 years is a process of readjusting to 40 years is a process of readjusting to 40 years is a process of readjusting to the realities of the world the realities of the world the realities of the world that that great moment of romantic that that great moment of romantic that that great moment of romantic success of a revolution like most success of a revolution like most success of a revolution like most Revolutions of course that is going to Revolutions of course that is going to Revolutions of course that is going to change Iran and bring this kind of a

change Iran and bring this kind of a change Iran and bring this kind of a moment of greatest led into this great moment of greatest led into this great moment of greatest led into this great disappointment so the movement of the disappointment so the movement of the disappointment so the movement of the great disappointment in a sense great disappointment in a sense great disappointment in a sense like most Messianic movements by the way like most Messianic movements by the way like most Messianic movements by the way Mosaic move as a general are always Mosaic move as a general are always Mosaic move as a general are always leading into great disappointments but leading into great disappointments but leading into great disappointments but what I have here that perhaps should be what I have here that perhaps should be what I have here that perhaps should be added to it that yes it was the added to it that yes it was the added to it that yes it was the peculiarity of Iran as a society that peculiarity of Iran as a society that peculiarity of Iran as a society that had to experience had to experience had to experience this eventual this eventual this eventual encounter between religion and state encounter between religion and state encounter between religion and state that's something to do with the nature that's something to do with the nature that's something to do with the nature of Jesus that's just one point that of Jesus that's just one point that of Jesus that's just one point that should be pointed out should be pointed out should be pointed out most of Sunni Islam don't have that kind most of Sunni Islam don't have that kind most of Sunni Islam don't have that kind of I say most because there is something of I say most because there is something of I say most because there is something there but Sony Islam in general does not there but Sony Islam in general does not there but Sony Islam in general does not have that kind of an aspiration for the have that kind of an aspiration for the have that kind of an aspiration for the coming of a Messianic coming of a Messianic coming of a Messianic uh uh a leader uh uh a leader uh uh a leader she's them does she's them does she's them does she's I mean it's very shaping she's I mean it's very shaping she's I mean it's very shaping particularly the way that it was set up particularly the way that it was set up particularly the way that it was set up in Iran in Iran in Iran was a religion that has always this was a religion that has always this was a religion that has always this element of expectation to it element of expectation to it element of expectation to it for the coming of this for the coming of this for the coming of this Messianic leader of course I mean Messianic leader of course I mean Messianic leader of course I mean between parenthesis all societies look between parenthesis all societies look between parenthesis all societies look for for for Messianic leaders I'm just look around Messianic leaders I'm just look around Messianic leaders I'm just look around us but some societies more than others

us but some societies more than others us but some societies more than others there's certain culture it might have to there's certain culture it might have to there's certain culture it might have to do with them the Romantic poetry that we do with them the Romantic poetry that we do with them the Romantic poetry that we mentioned earlier I mean surely I mean mentioned earlier I mean surely I mean mentioned earlier I mean surely I mean not to draw to me parallels but the not to draw to me parallels but the not to draw to me parallels but the Soviet Union there is romanticism too Soviet Union there is romanticism too Soviet Union there is romanticism too and I mean I don't know there there it and I mean I don't know there there it and I mean I don't know there there it does does does maybe idealism maybe idealism maybe idealism a sense of his savior yeah who would a sense of his savior yeah who would a sense of his savior yeah who would who would bring you out of the misery who would bring you out of the misery who would bring you out of the misery that you are in that you are in that you are in and and always looking for a and and always looking for a and and always looking for a for a third party for a third party for a third party to solve your to solve your to solve your issues that's why probably this movement issues that's why probably this movement issues that's why probably this movement has a has a has a particularly significance because it particularly significance because it particularly significance because it probably doesn't look for a messiah probably doesn't look for a messiah probably doesn't look for a messiah although I was talking to my brother who although I was talking to my brother who although I was talking to my brother who is the historian also and he was saying is the historian also and he was saying is the historian also and he was saying perhaps the Messiah of this movement is perhaps the Messiah of this movement is perhaps the Messiah of this movement is that mass or amini the 22 year old girl that mass or amini the 22 year old girl that mass or amini the 22 year old girl that was killed it's a market Messiah that was killed it's a market Messiah that was killed it's a market Messiah who is now leading a movement which no who is now leading a movement which no who is now leading a movement which no longer has that longer has that longer has that charismatic leadership with it but yes I charismatic leadership with it but yes I charismatic leadership with it but yes I would say that would say that would say that Iran has been the birthplace if I might Iran has been the birthplace if I might Iran has been the birthplace if I might say that say that say that of Messianic aspirations of Messianic aspirations of Messianic aspirations going back to the ancient zoracianism going back to the ancient zoracianism going back to the ancient zoracianism which is the really the whole system

which is the really the whole system which is the really the whole system that you see in major religions or at that you see in major religions or at that you see in major religions or at least best so-called Western religions least best so-called Western religions least best so-called Western religions it's abrahamic religions it's abrahamic religions it's abrahamic religions is parallel or perhaps influenced by is parallel or perhaps influenced by is parallel or perhaps influenced by Zoroastrianism in which there is an idea Zoroastrianism in which there is an idea Zoroastrianism in which there is an idea of uh this war than the other word that of uh this war than the other word that of uh this war than the other word that is Hereafter there is an idea of a is Hereafter there is an idea of a is Hereafter there is an idea of a judgment at the end of the time judgment at the end of the time judgment at the end of the time and there is a concept that there is a and there is a concept that there is a and there is a concept that there is a moment of Justice moment of Justice moment of Justice that is going to come with the rise of a that is going to come with the rise of a that is going to come with the rise of a religious or a charismatic figure so religious or a charismatic figure so religious or a charismatic figure so it's a very old phenomenon in Iran very it's a very old phenomenon in Iran very it's a very old phenomenon in Iran very old and it's time and again repeated old and it's time and again repeated old and it's time and again repeated itself in the course of its history but itself in the course of its history but itself in the course of its history but never as powerfully never as powerfully never as powerfully as it happened in 1979 and never in the as it happened in 1979 and never in the as it happened in 1979 and never in the form of authority from within the form of authority from within the form of authority from within the religious establishment it was always religious establishment it was always religious establishment it was always The Descent movements that were The Descent movements that were The Descent movements that were kind of antinomian they were against the kind of antinomian they were against the kind of antinomian they were against the authority of the uh religious authority of the uh religious authority of the uh religious establishment that changed in the 20th establishment that changed in the 20th establishment that changed in the 20th century century century but the revolution 1979 that change is but the revolution 1979 that change is but the revolution 1979 that change is still with us today what can we just still with us today what can we just still with us today what can we just Linger on um Linger on um Linger on um are there some practical games of Power that occurred games of Power that occurred you know in the way that Stalin took you know in the way that Stalin took you know in the way that Stalin took power and held power in the early days power and held power in the early days power and held power in the early days is there something like this in terms of

is there something like this in terms of is there something like this in terms of the establishment of the Revolutionary the establishment of the Revolutionary the establishment of the Revolutionary guard and all those kinds of stuff yes guard and all those kinds of stuff yes guard and all those kinds of stuff yes so it's the the Messianic figure that so it's the the Messianic figure that so it's the the Messianic figure that has some support from the people but uh has some support from the people but uh has some support from the people but uh does he have to crush his enemies in does he have to crush his enemies in does he have to crush his enemies in competition competition competition certainly did certainly did certainly did probably not certainly not as brutal in probably not certainly not as brutal in probably not certainly not as brutal in terms of the victims as you would see in terms of the victims as you would see in terms of the victims as you would see in Soviet Union understand Soviet Union understand Soviet Union understand who the Bloodshed or the who the Bloodshed or the who the Bloodshed or the destruction of the population was far destruction of the population was far destruction of the population was far greater greater greater than what you would find in than what you would find in than what you would find in Iran of the Islamic Republic it's Iran of the Islamic Republic it's Iran of the Islamic Republic it's uncomfortable uncomfortable uncomfortable perhaps I would find a greater parallel perhaps I would find a greater parallel perhaps I would find a greater parallel with matzodun with matzodun with matzodun and and and particularly because China has a very particularly because China has a very particularly because China has a very strong Messianic tradition strong Messianic tradition strong Messianic tradition since the ancient times so they have since the ancient times so they have since the ancient times so they have something and Mao appeared as the kind something and Mao appeared as the kind something and Mao appeared as the kind of a Messianic figure of a Messianic figure of a Messianic figure there I can see there is a parallel but there I can see there is a parallel but there I can see there is a parallel but also you can see with any other also you can see with any other also you can see with any other authoritarian regime with the Messianic authoritarian regime with the Messianic authoritarian regime with the Messianic fear at the head of it that it destroys fear at the head of it that it destroys fear at the head of it that it destroys all the other forces so during the all the other forces so during the all the other forces so during the course of the first 10 years of the course of the first 10 years of the course of the first 10 years of the Islamic revolution it destroyed the Islamic revolution it destroyed the Islamic revolution it destroyed the liberal nationalists liberal nationalists liberal nationalists secular secular secular it's destroyed it's destroyed it's destroyed the Guerrilla movements some of them the Guerrilla movements some of them the Guerrilla movements some of them Islamic some of them marxists who turned

Islamic some of them marxists who turned Islamic some of them marxists who turned into political parties or tendencies in into political parties or tendencies in into political parties or tendencies in the course of the post-revolution 1979 the course of the post-revolution 1979 the course of the post-revolution 1979 they were completely destroyed they were completely destroyed they were completely destroyed and in a very brutal fashion and in a very brutal fashion and in a very brutal fashion and uh the their opposition even within and uh the their opposition even within and uh the their opposition even within the religious establishment because it the religious establishment because it the religious establishment because it wasn't a uniform there were many wasn't a uniform there were many wasn't a uniform there were many different Tendencies those that were different Tendencies those that were different Tendencies those that were opposed to the authority of Ayatollah opposed to the authority of Ayatollah opposed to the authority of Ayatollah Khomeini or not Imam Khomeini meaning Khomeini or not Imam Khomeini meaning Khomeini or not Imam Khomeini meaning almost a sacred almost a sacred almost a sacred religious figure above the level of a religious figure above the level of a religious figure above the level of a religious Authority is a saint kind of a religious Authority is a saint kind of a religious Authority is a saint kind of a figure he says she's them has this idea figure he says she's them has this idea figure he says she's them has this idea of imams they were 11 of them the 12th of imams they were 11 of them the 12th of imams they were 11 of them the 12th is hidden and would come back at the end is hidden and would come back at the end is hidden and would come back at the end of the time this is okay Messianic of the time this is okay Messianic of the time this is okay Messianic figure figure figure so the title that was always used for so the title that was always used for so the title that was always used for them only in shiza never used for any them only in shiza never used for any them only in shiza never used for any other person other person other person he is the first person in the revolution he is the first person in the revolution he is the first person in the revolution of 1979 first referred to as Deputy of of 1979 first referred to as Deputy of of 1979 first referred to as Deputy of Imam Imam Imam but the term Deputy gradually but the term Deputy gradually but the term Deputy gradually disappeared and he became Imam Khomeini disappeared and he became Imam Khomeini disappeared and he became Imam Khomeini this is that his official title I love this is that his official title I love this is that his official title I love human beings so much human beings so much human beings so much it's so beautiful these uh titles that it's so beautiful these uh titles that it's so beautiful these uh titles that we give each other it's um but it's we give each other it's um but it's we give each other it's um but it's marvelous stuff you love it because you marvelous stuff you love it because you marvelous stuff you love it because you haven't been under that system no I I

haven't been under that system no I I haven't been under that system no I I love it in a way I love it in a very love it in a way I love it in a very love it in a way I love it in a very dark dark dark kind of way it caricatures itself it's kind of way it caricatures itself it's kind of way it caricatures itself it's it's almost funny in its absurdity if it's almost funny in its absurdity if it's almost funny in its absurdity if not for the evil that it has led to in not for the evil that it has led to in not for the evil that it has led to in human history uh but also the fact that human history uh but also the fact that human history uh but also the fact that it's a man is in fact fulfillment in a it's a man is in fact fulfillment in a it's a man is in fact fulfillment in a kind of completely kind of completely kind of completely um unintended fashion is a fulfillment um unintended fashion is a fulfillment um unintended fashion is a fulfillment of that idea of a messiah that they've of that idea of a messiah that they've of that idea of a messiah that they've been fighting for this Imam which is in been fighting for this Imam which is in been fighting for this Imam which is in ahide for a thousand years is here and ahide for a thousand years is here and ahide for a thousand years is here and not here not here not here and therefore Khomeini would have in and therefore Khomeini would have in and therefore Khomeini would have in effect fulfilled those anticipations but effect fulfilled those anticipations but effect fulfilled those anticipations but beyond that I just give you one example beyond that I just give you one example beyond that I just give you one example I know that you may have other concerns I know that you may have other concerns I know that you may have other concerns but but but when I say elimination when I say elimination when I say elimination at the end of the iran-iraq war at the end of the iran-iraq war at the end of the iran-iraq war by the direct order of Ayatollah by the direct order of Ayatollah by the direct order of Ayatollah Khomeini a fatwa that he wrote a group Khomeini a fatwa that he wrote a group Khomeini a fatwa that he wrote a group of prisoners who belong to a variety of uh who belong to a variety of uh political parties the left religious political parties the left religious political parties the left religious left left left majority of them majority of them majority of them the left and the the Marxist left and the left and the the Marxist left and the left and the the Marxist left and the religious left the religious left the religious left in a matter of a few weeks or perhaps a in a matter of a few weeks or perhaps a in a matter of a few weeks or perhaps a few months I'm not actually quite sure few months I'm not actually quite sure few months I'm not actually quite sure about the times that about the times that about the times that uh in a series of these were people who

uh in a series of these were people who uh in a series of these were people who have already been tried have already been tried have already been tried and they were given uh sentences and they were given uh sentences and they were given uh sentences they were brought back they were brought back they were brought back before the uh summary Trials of three before the uh summary Trials of three before the uh summary Trials of three judges or more three four of them one of judges or more three four of them one of judges or more three four of them one of them is now the them is now the them is now the new president of the Islamic Republic and they were given a a quick summary and they were given a a quick summary sentences which meant execution sentences which meant execution sentences which meant execution so something between probably six to so something between probably six to so something between probably six to eight thousand eight thousand eight thousand were executed in matter of a month or were executed in matter of a month or were executed in matter of a month or two months something like that two months something like that two months something like that mostly in Tehran but also in provinces mostly in Tehran but also in provinces mostly in Tehran but also in provinces and that's remained an extraordinary and that's remained an extraordinary and that's remained an extraordinary trauma trauma trauma for the families for those who had these for the families for those who had these for the families for those who had these kids in they're all young all young kids in they're all young all young kids in they're all young all young so this remains very much uh so this remains very much uh so this remains very much uh kind of uh original sin of the Islamic kind of uh original sin of the Islamic kind of uh original sin of the Islamic Republic Republic Republic that cannot get rid of that cannot get rid of that cannot get rid of and it's in people's memories they and it's in people's memories they and it's in people's memories they didn't allow them even the families didn't allow them even the families didn't allow them even the families to go and mourn to go and mourn to go and mourn their dead in a an official symmetry their dead in a an official symmetry their dead in a an official symmetry which they created for them now the which they created for them now the which they created for them now the latest thing is that they put a huge a latest thing is that they put a huge a latest thing is that they put a huge a concrete wall around it so nobody would concrete wall around it so nobody would concrete wall around it so nobody would be able to get into it

be able to get into it be able to get into it so these all part of this extraordinary so these all part of this extraordinary so these all part of this extraordinary level of level of level of level of level of level of atrocity atrocity atrocity brutality that you see that the regime brutality that you see that the regime brutality that you see that the regime claimed that it comes with the morality claimed that it comes with the morality claimed that it comes with the morality of religion and Islam to bring back the of religion and Islam to bring back the of religion and Islam to bring back the justice and and and be more justice and and and be more justice and and and be more uh in a sense kind to people ended up uh in a sense kind to people ended up uh in a sense kind to people ended up with what it is in the memory of many of with what it is in the memory of many of with what it is in the memory of many of the people in Iraq so developing these the people in Iraq so developing these the people in Iraq so developing these fascistic Tendencies very much fascistic Tendencies very much fascistic Tendencies very much destroying minorities Baha'is one of destroying minorities Baha'is one of destroying minorities Baha'is one of them them them hundreds of bahais were without any hundreds of bahais were without any hundreds of bahais were without any reason without any involvement we picked reason without any involvement we picked reason without any involvement we picked up and uh up and uh up and uh executed the properties were taken over executed the properties were taken over executed the properties were taken over their rights were taken away from them their rights were taken away from them their rights were taken away from them even up to this day this is the largest even up to this day this is the largest even up to this day this is the largest by the very religious minority in Iran by the very religious minority in Iran by the very religious minority in Iran so you would see that in many areas so you would see that in many areas so you would see that in many areas this is a ax very much as an Beyond this is a ax very much as an Beyond this is a ax very much as an Beyond authoritarian it's a kind of really authoritarian it's a kind of really authoritarian it's a kind of really fascistic regime foreign held power for 10 years held power for 10 years and then took power the next Supreme and then took power the next Supreme and then took power the next Supreme All Right leader who is still the leader All Right leader who is still the leader All Right leader who is still the leader today for over 30 years who is he today for over 30 years who is he today for over 30 years who is he well he was one of the this is

one day perhaps no well they hesitated one day perhaps no well they hesitated to use the term Imam for him to use the term Imam for him to use the term Imam for him but in any other respect he was given but in any other respect he was given but in any other respect he was given all of that adulation yes that they did all of that adulation yes that they did all of that adulation yes that they did to how many he is the guardian jurist to how many he is the guardian jurist to how many he is the guardian jurist that's what's important because the that's what's important because the that's what's important because the guardian jurist in the constitution of guardian jurist in the constitution of guardian jurist in the constitution of the Islamic Republic is an authority the Islamic Republic is an authority the Islamic Republic is an authority that is above this state that is above this state that is above this state he is not he is not he is not elected quote-unquote because elected quote-unquote because elected quote-unquote because this is a Divine Authority although he this is a Divine Authority although he this is a Divine Authority although he has been designated by the group of the has been designated by the group of the has been designated by the group of the terror and mullah's like himself terror and mullah's like himself terror and mullah's like himself and uh and uh and uh he has the full power over all he has the full power over all he has the full power over all uh uh uh institutions of the state institutions of the state institutions of the state the Army the media the Army the media the Army the media the economy every aspect of the acts the economy every aspect of the acts the economy every aspect of the acts like you show like you show like you show it's like this authoritarian Authority it's like this authoritarian Authority it's like this authoritarian Authority did that gradually develop or was that did that gradually develop or was that did that gradually develop or was that very early on well that's part of the very early on well that's part of the very early on well that's part of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic Constitution of the Islamic Republic Constitution of the Islamic Republic the first constitution the first constitution the first constitution um in the first draft of the um in the first draft of the um in the first draft of the Constitution did not have the authority Constitution did not have the authority Constitution did not have the authority of the Guardian Judas but then it was of the Guardian Judas but then it was of the Guardian Judas but then it was added by added by added by Khomeini and his supporters are there Khomeini and his supporters are there Khomeini and his supporters are there actual in the Constitution any limits to actual in the Constitution any limits to actual in the Constitution any limits to his power his power his power yes there is a council of the experts so

yes there is a council of the experts so yes there is a council of the experts so to say to say to say that would that would that would remove him from Power I think remove him from Power I think remove him from Power I think theoretically theoretically theoretically but there is so much but there is so much but there is so much restrictions to that that I don't think restrictions to that that I don't think restrictions to that that I don't think it would have ever happened in reality it would have ever happened in reality it would have ever happened in reality in his case at least but in terms of in his case at least but in terms of in his case at least but in terms of executive to make decisions and all that executive to make decisions and all that executive to make decisions and all that kind of stuff does he need to check with kind of stuff does he need to check with kind of stuff does he need to check with anybody no anybody no anybody no boy he does check boy he does check boy he does check with his own advisors but he's he with his own advisors but he's he with his own advisors but he's he doesn't have any he doesn't have any doesn't have any he doesn't have any doesn't have any he doesn't have any constitutional obligation to check on constitutional obligation to check on constitutional obligation to check on the decisions that he's making the decisions that he's making the decisions that he's making so that's the supreme leader but there's so that's the supreme leader but there's so that's the supreme leader but there's been presidents yes and what's the role been presidents yes and what's the role been presidents yes and what's the role of the president the president in a of the president the president in a of the president the president in a sense is the executive power sense is the executive power sense is the executive power under the Islamic Republic there are under the Islamic Republic there are under the Islamic Republic there are three heads of three heads of three heads of powers powers powers this is the president that presumably this is the president that presumably this is the president that presumably has the executive power has the executive power has the executive power there is the head of the judiciary there is the head of the judiciary there is the head of the judiciary and there is the head of the and there is the head of the and there is the head of the uh the speaker of the parliament much uh the speaker of the parliament much uh the speaker of the parliament much less Islamic less Islamic less Islamic which is the uh the legislative so the which is the uh the legislative so the which is the uh the legislative so the legislative legislative legislative Judiciary and executive

Judiciary and executive Judiciary and executive who is now the president who is now the president who is now the president is the uh the head of the Executive is the uh the head of the Executive is the uh the head of the Executive above them above them above them is the supremely there or the guardian is the supremely there or the guardian is the supremely there or the guardian jurist can you give me some insight jurist can you give me some insight jurist can you give me some insight because I especially because I especially because I especially I'm not exactly sure why but uh the I'm not exactly sure why but uh the I'm not exactly sure why but uh the president Ahmadinejad president Ahmadinejad president Ahmadinejad is somebody I'm as an American really is somebody I'm as an American really is somebody I'm as an American really familiar with why is that exactly but familiar with why is that exactly but familiar with why is that exactly but why was why was the president the why was why was the president the why was why was the president the public-facing person to the world versus public-facing person to the world versus public-facing person to the world versus the supreme leader uh is that just a the supreme leader uh is that just a the supreme leader uh is that just a accident of a particular humans involved accident of a particular humans involved accident of a particular humans involved or is this by Design no because the or is this by Design no because the or is this by Design no because the supreme leader tries to keep himself out supreme leader tries to keep himself out supreme leader tries to keep himself out of of of issues of everyday politics supposedly issues of everyday politics supposedly issues of everyday politics supposedly yeah but therefore he is not coming to yeah but therefore he is not coming to yeah but therefore he is not coming to United Nations to give a speech during United Nations to give a speech during United Nations to give a speech during the uh session uh but Mr ahmadines at the uh session uh but Mr ahmadines at the uh session uh but Mr ahmadines at the time was the president the time was the president the time was the president uh would come and make outrageous uh would come and make outrageous uh would come and make outrageous statements that's why you probably know statements that's why you probably know statements that's why you probably know something about him so all of them make something about him so all of them make something about him so all of them make public statements but he had a public statements but he had a public statements but he had a proclivity for outrageous statements proclivity for outrageous statements proclivity for outrageous statements and it does all kinds of things he makes and it does all kinds of things he makes and it does all kinds of things he makes all kinds of statements but he is all kinds of statements but he is all kinds of statements but he is somewhat above the everyday politics in somewhat above the everyday politics in somewhat above the everyday politics in theory

theory theory but of course he is pulling all the but of course he is pulling all the but of course he is pulling all the strings with without doubt in every last strings with without doubt in every last strings with without doubt in every last respect and it seems that you were asked respect and it seems that you were asked respect and it seems that you were asked I thought you're going to ask me this I thought you're going to ask me this I thought you're going to ask me this question almost without a an exception question almost without a an exception question almost without a an exception since the Inception of the Islamic since the Inception of the Islamic since the Inception of the Islamic Republic in 1979 Republic in 1979 Republic in 1979 up to the last of the presidents of the up to the last of the presidents of the up to the last of the presidents of the Islamic Republic Rouhani before the guy Islamic Republic Rouhani before the guy Islamic Republic Rouhani before the guy that is last year or a year and a half that is last year or a year and a half that is last year or a year and a half ago was in a phony election uh uh got ago was in a phony election uh uh got ago was in a phony election uh uh got into the position of the president into the position of the president into the position of the president all of them on the long list all of them on the long list all of them on the long list all of them eventually fell out with the all of them eventually fell out with the all of them eventually fell out with the regime mm-hmm so there is no president regime mm-hmm so there is no president regime mm-hmm so there is no president except perhaps to some extent through a except perhaps to some extent through a except perhaps to some extent through a honey but we'll wait and see what is honey but we'll wait and see what is honey but we'll wait and see what is going to happen to him but prior to him going to happen to him but prior to him going to happen to him but prior to him all of them including ahmadine Azad fell all of them including ahmadine Azad fell all of them including ahmadine Azad fell out with the regime with the current out with the regime with the current out with the regime with the current regime in Iraq who's Johannes he was regime in Iraq who's Johannes he was regime in Iraq who's Johannes he was officially president for eight years officially president for eight years officially president for eight years yeah prior to raisy Ibrahimovic the 221 yeah prior to raisy Ibrahimovic the 221 yeah prior to raisy Ibrahimovic the 221 the year what you're saying is a phony the year what you're saying is a phony the year what you're saying is a phony election yesterday what happened because the process of what happened because the process of actually actually actually candidacy candidacy candidacy for presidency is completely controlled for presidency is completely controlled for presidency is completely controlled by a a cancer that is under the control

by a a cancer that is under the control by a a cancer that is under the control of the uh supreme leader so they have to of the uh supreme leader so they have to of the uh supreme leader so they have to approve who is going to be the candidate approve who is going to be the candidate approve who is going to be the candidate so why does everybody can enter and say so why does everybody can enter and say so why does everybody can enter and say I would like to be a candidate so did I would like to be a candidate so did I would like to be a candidate so did Rouhani follow out of favor you're Rouhani follow out of favor you're Rouhani follow out of favor you're saying there's something yeah well he is saying there's something yeah well he is saying there's something yeah well he is kind of out of favor now because he was kind of out of favor now because he was kind of out of favor now because he was more moderate than this this most recent more moderate than this this most recent more moderate than this this most recent regime what the point is that regime what the point is that regime what the point is that if you look this is something almost if you look this is something almost if you look this is something almost institutional institutional institutional constitutional to the regime this is the constitutional to the regime this is the constitutional to the regime this is the regime that rejects all of the executive regime that rejects all of the executive regime that rejects all of the executive powers powers powers because it's because the division because it's because the division because it's because the division between the supreme authority as the between the supreme authority as the between the supreme authority as the place of a supreme authority versus the place of a supreme authority versus the place of a supreme authority versus the presidency has presidency has presidency has problematic problematic problematic it is as if there would be a it is as if there would be a it is as if there would be a a a supreme leader in the United States a a supreme leader in the United States a a supreme leader in the United States above all these three sources of power above all these three sources of power above all these three sources of power I mean that's the kind of any view that I mean that's the kind of any view that I mean that's the kind of any view that we can see in today's Iran and of course we can see in today's Iran and of course we can see in today's Iran and of course he is at the focus of all the criticism he is at the focus of all the criticism he is at the focus of all the criticism that he receives from the demonstrators that he receives from the demonstrators that he receives from the demonstrators in today's Iran so on top of all this so on top of all this recently and throughout the last several recently and throughout the last several recently and throughout the last several years U.S and Iran

years U.S and Iran years U.S and Iran are in the midst of nuclear deal are in the midst of nuclear deal are in the midst of nuclear deal negotiations this is another part of the negotiations this is another part of the negotiations this is another part of the story of Iran story of Iran story of Iran is uh the development of nuclear weapons is uh the development of nuclear weapons is uh the development of nuclear weapons the nuclear program they're looking to the nuclear program they're looking to the nuclear program they're looking to restore the nuclear deal known as The restore the nuclear deal known as The restore the nuclear deal known as The Joint comprehensive plan of action jcpoa Joint comprehensive plan of action jcpoa Joint comprehensive plan of action jcpoa what is the history what is the history what is the history the present and the future of these the present and the future of these the present and the future of these negotiations over nuclear weapons what negotiations over nuclear weapons what negotiations over nuclear weapons what is interesting to you in this full is interesting to you in this full is interesting to you in this full context from the 16th century of the context from the 16th century of the context from the 16th century of the Messianic Messianic Messianic um yeah Journey uh what's interesting to um yeah Journey uh what's interesting to um yeah Journey uh what's interesting to you here you can argue that for a long you here you can argue that for a long you here you can argue that for a long time even under the shaw but much more time even under the shaw but much more time even under the shaw but much more expressively and expressively and expressively and decisively under the Islamic Republic decisively under the Islamic Republic decisively under the Islamic Republic there was a there was a there was a determination to have a nuclear determination to have a nuclear determination to have a nuclear power or nuclear weapon in a sense I power or nuclear weapon in a sense I power or nuclear weapon in a sense I think the bottom line of all the think the bottom line of all the think the bottom line of all the negotiations everything else is that negotiations everything else is that negotiations everything else is that Iran Iran Iran of the Islamic Republic had the tendency of the Islamic Republic had the tendency of the Islamic Republic had the tendency of of of having its own nuclear weapon the reason having its own nuclear weapon the reason having its own nuclear weapon the reason for that is that Iran was the subject of for that is that Iran was the subject of for that is that Iran was the subject of nearly nine years eight and a half years nearly nine years eight and a half years nearly nine years eight and a half years of of of uh Iran Iraq War uh Iran Iraq War uh Iran Iraq War when uh not only Iran faced an aggressor

when uh not only Iran faced an aggressor when uh not only Iran faced an aggressor Iraq that actually attacked Iran at a Iraq that actually attacked Iran at a Iraq that actually attacked Iran at a very critical time at the very beginning very critical time at the very beginning very critical time at the very beginning of the Iranian Revolution of the Iranian Revolution of the Iranian Revolution but the fact that Iran felt kind of a but the fact that Iran felt kind of a but the fact that Iran felt kind of a helpless helpless helpless in the course of this war in the course of this war in the course of this war and has to make great sacrifices and has to make great sacrifices and has to make great sacrifices actually which supported the Islamic actually which supported the Islamic actually which supported the Islamic regime and Consolidated the Islamic regime and Consolidated the Islamic regime and Consolidated the Islamic regime because of this war regime because of this war regime because of this war and most of the time and most of the time and most of the time the support of the United States was the support of the United States was the support of the United States was behind behind behind Iraq Visa of Iran Iraq Visa of Iran Iraq Visa of Iran and Iran felt that it's been and Iran felt that it's been and Iran felt that it's been isolated and has to isolated and has to isolated and has to protect itself so there is some argument protect itself so there is some argument protect itself so there is some argument for for for having a nuclear capabilities having a nuclear capabilities having a nuclear capabilities but in reality this has resulted in as a but in reality this has resulted in as a but in reality this has resulted in as a completely mindless crazy completely mindless crazy completely mindless crazy a wasteful attempt on the side of the a wasteful attempt on the side of the a wasteful attempt on the side of the Iranian regime Iranian regime Iranian regime to try to develop a nuclear power and to try to develop a nuclear power and to try to develop a nuclear power and therefore the rest of the world therefore the rest of the world therefore the rest of the world particularly in this region were very particularly in this region were very particularly in this region were very worried that if Iran would get access worried that if Iran would get access worried that if Iran would get access to a nuclear weapon then the entire to a nuclear weapon then the entire to a nuclear weapon then the entire region of the Persian Gulf region of the Persian Gulf region of the Persian Gulf might particularly Saudi Arabia possibly

might particularly Saudi Arabia possibly might particularly Saudi Arabia possibly turkey possibly Egypt all of them may turkey possibly Egypt all of them may turkey possibly Egypt all of them may require require require uh may may demand to have also nuclear uh may may demand to have also nuclear uh may may demand to have also nuclear weapon given the fact that Pakistan and weapon given the fact that Pakistan and weapon given the fact that Pakistan and India has already have it India has already have it India has already have it so there was a determined attempt as you so there was a determined attempt as you so there was a determined attempt as you might know on the side of the western might know on the side of the western might know on the side of the western communities or now gradually World communities or now gradually World communities or now gradually World communities to try to as much as communities to try to as much as communities to try to as much as possible to control Iran from getting possible to control Iran from getting possible to control Iran from getting access to a nuclear capability or access to a nuclear capability or access to a nuclear capability or actually limit Iran's nuclear actually limit Iran's nuclear actually limit Iran's nuclear capabilities to what was defined usually capabilities to what was defined usually capabilities to what was defined usually in a euphemism as a peaceful fashion in a euphemism as a peaceful fashion in a euphemism as a peaceful fashion okay okay okay uh that being said there was also Israel uh that being said there was also Israel uh that being said there was also Israel which viewed the Islamic Republic as a which viewed the Islamic Republic as a which viewed the Islamic Republic as a arch enemy arch enemy arch enemy and some of it might be due to the and some of it might be due to the and some of it might be due to the israeli's own exaggeration israeli's own exaggeration israeli's own exaggeration of Iran's threat and some of it is of Iran's threat and some of it is of Iran's threat and some of it is because Iran has developed a fairly because Iran has developed a fairly because Iran has developed a fairly strong military as we see today strong military as we see today strong military as we see today and as such this attempt to try to and as such this attempt to try to and as such this attempt to try to prevent Iran prevent Iran prevent Iran from Ever Getting access to nuclear from Ever Getting access to nuclear from Ever Getting access to nuclear weapon which resulted as you might know weapon which resulted as you might know weapon which resulted as you might know in this massive in this massive in this massive sanctions that were imposed upon Iran

sanctions that were imposed upon Iran sanctions that were imposed upon Iran ever since the beginning of the ever since the beginning of the ever since the beginning of the revolution in 1979 and of course more revolution in 1979 and of course more revolution in 1979 and of course more intensively since 2015 2016 even prior intensively since 2015 2016 even prior intensively since 2015 2016 even prior to that probably a little bit earlier to that probably a little bit earlier to that probably a little bit earlier this this agreement the nuclear this this agreement the nuclear this this agreement the nuclear agreement was supposed to agreement was supposed to agreement was supposed to control or monitor control or monitor control or monitor Iranian nuclear industry or nuclear Iranian nuclear industry or nuclear Iranian nuclear industry or nuclear setup in exchange for removing the sanctions in exchange for removing the sanctions what this never worked in a matter of what this never worked in a matter of what this never worked in a matter of fact in a very successful satisfactory fact in a very successful satisfactory fact in a very successful satisfactory way for the Iranians or for the way for the Iranians or for the way for the Iranians or for the Americans particularly under Trump Americans particularly under Trump Americans particularly under Trump Administration which I think foolishly Administration which I think foolishly Administration which I think foolishly decided to scrap decided to scrap decided to scrap the agreement that was reached under the agreement that was reached under the agreement that was reached under President Obama President Obama President Obama like many other policies that was like many other policies that was like many other policies that was implemented under Trump Administration implemented under Trump Administration implemented under Trump Administration this created a major problem that is how this created a major problem that is how this created a major problem that is how to to to under Biden how to try to under Biden how to try to under Biden how to try to come up with a new come up with a new come up with a new nuclear agreement with Iran nuclear agreement with Iran nuclear agreement with Iran in this process since 2016 in this process since 2016 in this process since 2016 where the United States withdrew from where the United States withdrew from where the United States withdrew from the agreement the agreement the agreement Iran felt comfortable to try to go and

Iran felt comfortable to try to go and Iran felt comfortable to try to go and do whatever they want without any kind do whatever they want without any kind do whatever they want without any kind of monitor being monitored by the of monitor being monitored by the of monitor being monitored by the International Community International Community International Community and that's the situation now we don't and that's the situation now we don't and that's the situation now we don't know whether Iran is really sincere know whether Iran is really sincere know whether Iran is really sincere under the present regime under the present regime under the present regime to negotiate a deal we don't know that to negotiate a deal we don't know that to negotiate a deal we don't know that the United States is the United States is the United States is willing to do so willing to do so willing to do so and it seems that now what is happening and it seems that now what is happening and it seems that now what is happening in terms of the protests in the Iranian in terms of the protests in the Iranian in terms of the protests in the Iranian streets makes it even harder streets makes it even harder streets makes it even harder in a public eye to try to negotiate a in a public eye to try to negotiate a in a public eye to try to negotiate a deal with Iran because that means in the deal with Iran because that means in the deal with Iran because that means in the minds of many minds of many minds of many and with some justification and with some justification and with some justification that uh that uh that uh if the nuclear agreement would result in if the nuclear agreement would result in if the nuclear agreement would result in the removal of many of these sanctions the removal of many of these sanctions the removal of many of these sanctions millions billions millions billions millions billions uh as the result of the removal of the uh as the result of the removal of the uh as the result of the removal of the sanctions and Iran's ability to sell it sanctions and Iran's ability to sell it sanctions and Iran's ability to sell it it's all in the international market it's all in the international market it's all in the international market without any restrictions without any restrictions without any restrictions means that the Iranian government is means that the Iranian government is means that the Iranian government is going to become even more powerful going to become even more powerful going to become even more powerful more financially secure in order to more financially secure in order to more financially secure in order to suppress its own people suppress its own people suppress its own people so that's the agreement that goes

so that's the agreement that goes so that's the agreement that goes against against against coming to terms with with uh Iran but coming to terms with with uh Iran but coming to terms with with uh Iran but the problem is that there is no clear the problem is that there is no clear the problem is that there is no clear alternative even I'm not particularly alternative even I'm not particularly alternative even I'm not particularly personally favorable personally favorable personally favorable for this agreement to be uh to to be for this agreement to be uh to to be for this agreement to be uh to to be ratified ratified ratified but the alternative is very difficult but the alternative is very difficult but the alternative is very difficult there is no way to try to see what can there is no way to try to see what can there is no way to try to see what can be done geopolitics where every alternative is geopolitics where every alternative is terrible terrible terrible let me ask you let me ask you let me ask you about one of the most complex about one of the most complex about one of the most complex geopolitical situations in history geopolitical situations in history geopolitical situations in history um one aspect of it is the cold war um one aspect of it is the cold war um one aspect of it is the cold war between Iran and Israel the bigger between Iran and Israel the bigger between Iran and Israel the bigger picture of it is sometimes referred to picture of it is sometimes referred to picture of it is sometimes referred to as uh as uh as uh israel-palestine conflict israel-palestine conflict israel-palestine conflict what are all the party's Nations what are all the party's Nations what are all the party's Nations involved what are the interests that are involved what are the interests that are involved what are the interests that are involved what's the rhetoric involved what's the rhetoric involved what's the rhetoric um can you understand make the case for um can you understand make the case for um can you understand make the case for each side of this conflict the European Union can of worms that it the European Union can of worms that it takes another three hours of of takes another three hours of of takes another three hours of of conversation just three hours at least conversation just three hours at least conversation just three hours at least what what I can tell you is this Iran prior to 1979

Iran prior to 1979 viewed itself under the Shah as a kind viewed itself under the Shah as a kind viewed itself under the Shah as a kind of a of a of a if not supporter of Israel if not supporter of Israel if not supporter of Israel was in very good terms with Israel was in very good terms with Israel was in very good terms with Israel they had an embassy in Iran or they had an embassy in Iran or they had an embassy in Iran or unofficial Embassy you know there are unofficial Embassy you know there are unofficial Embassy you know there are certain projects that's helping with the certain projects that's helping with the certain projects that's helping with the Agriculture and so forth you know Agriculture and so forth you know Agriculture and so forth you know but since 1979 but since 1979 but since 1979 that completely reversed that completely reversed that completely reversed part of it is that the issue of the part of it is that the issue of the part of it is that the issue of the Palestinian plights Palestinian plights Palestinian plights remained very much at the heart remained very much at the heart remained very much at the heart of of of the Revolutionary Iranians who would see the Revolutionary Iranians who would see the Revolutionary Iranians who would see that that that part of the United States is to support part of the United States is to support part of the United States is to support part of the United States guilt part of the United States guilt part of the United States guilt sin sin sin is to support Israel is to support Israel is to support Israel vis-a-vis it's very suppressive vis-a-vis it's very suppressive vis-a-vis it's very suppressive a very a very a very oppressive oppressive oppressive treatment of the Palestinians completely treatment of the Palestinians completely treatment of the Palestinians completely illegal taking over after territories illegal taking over after territories illegal taking over after territories which is not theirs since 1967.

which is not theirs since 1967. which is not theirs since 1967. and therefore it is upon the Iranian and therefore it is upon the Iranian and therefore it is upon the Iranian regime Iranian Islamic Republic to regime Iranian Islamic Republic to regime Iranian Islamic Republic to support the cause of the Palestinians support the cause of the Palestinians support the cause of the Palestinians this came about at the time this came about at the time this came about at the time when when when the rest of the support for the the rest of the support for the the rest of the support for the Palestinians including Arab nationalism Palestinians including Arab nationalism Palestinians including Arab nationalism basically basically basically reached a stage of bankruptcy reached a stage of bankruptcy reached a stage of bankruptcy I mean much of the regimes of the Arab I mean much of the regimes of the Arab I mean much of the regimes of the Arab world either are now coming to terms world either are now coming to terms world either are now coming to terms with Israel or in one way or another with Israel or in one way or another with Israel or in one way or another because of their own contingencies because of their own contingencies because of their own contingencies because of their own because of their own because of their own concerns and interests concerns and interests concerns and interests are really nearly accepting are really nearly accepting are really nearly accepting Israel in the in the region now that all Israel in the in the region now that all Israel in the in the region now that all task of rhetorically supporting the task of rhetorically supporting the task of rhetorically supporting the Palestinians falls upon the Islamic Palestinians falls upon the Islamic Palestinians falls upon the Islamic Republic Republic Republic that sees itself as the champion of the that sees itself as the champion of the that sees itself as the champion of the Palestinians now without as a matter of Palestinians now without as a matter of Palestinians now without as a matter of fact having either the support of the fact having either the support of the fact having either the support of the Iranian people behind him if you ask if Iranian people behind him if you ask if Iranian people behind him if you ask if tomorrow there would be a poll or a tomorrow there would be a poll or a tomorrow there would be a poll or a referendum I would doubt that referendum I would doubt that referendum I would doubt that 80 of the Iranian people would approve 80 of the Iranian people would approve 80 of the Iranian people would approve of the policies of the Islamic Republic of the policies of the Islamic Republic of the policies of the Islamic Republic Visa with the issue of Palestine Visa with the issue of Palestine Visa with the issue of Palestine nor the Palestinians themselves because nor the Palestinians themselves because nor the Palestinians themselves because they're they're they're the Islamic Republic is only supporting

the Islamic Republic is only supporting the Islamic Republic is only supporting those factions within the Palestinian those factions within the Palestinian those factions within the Palestinian movement which are Islamic quote-unquote movement which are Islamic quote-unquote movement which are Islamic quote-unquote and even within that they there is and even within that they there is and even within that they there is problems with Hamas for instance problems with Hamas for instance problems with Hamas for instance but nevertheless it's for the Islamic but nevertheless it's for the Islamic but nevertheless it's for the Islamic Republic some kind of a propaganda tool Republic some kind of a propaganda tool Republic some kind of a propaganda tool to be able to use it for its own sake to be able to use it for its own sake to be able to use it for its own sake and claim that we are the champions of and claim that we are the champions of and claim that we are the champions of the Palestinian people the Palestinian people the Palestinian people whether they have a solution whether they have a solution whether they have a solution if you look at the rhetoric if you if you look at the rhetoric if you if you look at the rhetoric if you listen to the rhetoric it's the listen to the rhetoric it's the listen to the rhetoric it's the destruction of the destruction of the destruction of the state of Israel state of Israel state of Israel and that's and that's and that's it seems to me creates a certain anxiety it seems to me creates a certain anxiety it seems to me creates a certain anxiety in the minds of the Israelis Israeli in the minds of the Israelis Israeli in the minds of the Israelis Israeli population and Israeli government population and Israeli government population and Israeli government particularly those who are now in power particularly those who are now in power particularly those who are now in power Netanyahu the likud and more kind of a Netanyahu the likud and more kind of a Netanyahu the likud and more kind of a right-wing politics of police polity of right-wing politics of police polity of right-wing politics of police polity of today's Israel today's Israel today's Israel that being said I think also the that being said I think also the that being said I think also the Israelis try to get an extra mileage out Israelis try to get an extra mileage out Israelis try to get an extra mileage out of of of a threat of Iran quote-unquote a threat of Iran quote-unquote a threat of Iran quote-unquote in order to in order to in order to present themselves present themselves present themselves a rightful to for terms of security and

a rightful to for terms of security and a rightful to for terms of security and whatever else whatever else whatever else the way that they're treating the the way that they're treating the the way that they're treating the Palestinians which I think is extremely Palestinians which I think is extremely Palestinians which I think is extremely unjust I think it's extremely unwise unjust I think it's extremely unwise unjust I think it's extremely unwise for Israel to carry on with these for Israel to carry on with these for Israel to carry on with these policies as they did since the 67 at policies as they did since the 67 at policies as they did since the 67 at least least least and not to try to come to terms with it and not to try to come to terms with it and not to try to come to terms with it of course there are huge amount of of course there are huge amount of of course there are huge amount of I'm not denying that at all it's a huge I'm not denying that at all it's a huge I'm not denying that at all it's a huge amount of amount of amount of uh uh failures mistakes and stupidity on the side of the and stupidity on the side of the Palestinian leadership Palestinian leadership Palestinian leadership in various stages in various stages in various stages not to try to make a deal not to try to make a deal not to try to make a deal or try to come to terms in some fashion or try to come to terms in some fashion or try to come to terms in some fashion but it's a very complex picture and it's but it's a very complex picture and it's but it's a very complex picture and it's rather unfair to the Palestinians to rather unfair to the Palestinians to rather unfair to the Palestinians to accuse them for not coming to terms with accuse them for not coming to terms with accuse them for not coming to terms with Israel under a very uneven circumstances Israel under a very uneven circumstances Israel under a very uneven circumstances when they are not in a position to try when they are not in a position to try when they are not in a position to try to make a fair deal in terms of the to make a fair deal in terms of the to make a fair deal in terms of the territories territories territories or in terms of their security in future or in terms of their security in future or in terms of their security in future vis-a-visra so I think there is as you vis-a-visra so I think there is as you vis-a-visra so I think there is as you probably know quite a lot of people that probably know quite a lot of people that probably know quite a lot of people that would have a different perspective than would have a different perspective than would have a different perspective than you just stated in terms of you just stated in terms of you just stated in terms of you know taking the perspective of you know taking the perspective of you know taking the perspective of Israel and characterizing the situation Israel and characterizing the situation Israel and characterizing the situation Can you steal man that their side can

Can you steal man that their side can Can you steal man that their side can you still man Israel's side that they're you still man Israel's side that they're you still man Israel's side that they're trying to be a Sovereign Nation trying trying to be a Sovereign Nation trying trying to be a Sovereign Nation trying to protect themselves against threats to protect themselves against threats to protect themselves against threats ultimately ultimately ultimately wanting to create a place of safety a wanting to create a place of safety a wanting to create a place of safety a place where people can pursue place where people can pursue place where people can pursue all all the things that you want to all all the things that you want to all all the things that you want to pursue in life including foremost pursue in life including foremost pursue in life including foremost happiness happiness happiness I tend to agree with you I tend to agree with you I tend to agree with you and I have all the respect for the fact and I have all the respect for the fact and I have all the respect for the fact that that that Israel would like to create security and Israel would like to create security and Israel would like to create security and happiness for its own people happiness for its own people happiness for its own people but there are two arguments is one is a but there are two arguments is one is a but there are two arguments is one is a moral argument moral argument moral argument to my mind as a historian to my mind as a historian to my mind as a historian a uh Jews across around the world for a uh Jews across around the world for a uh Jews across around the world for all through their history suffered all through their history suffered all through their history suffered and this is a history of suffering there and this is a history of suffering there and this is a history of suffering there is a memory of something is a memory of something is a memory of something and I find it enormously difficult to and I find it enormously difficult to and I find it enormously difficult to believe that a nation that's the product believe that a nation that's the product believe that a nation that's the product of so much of so much of so much uh sacrifice suffering loss of life and variety of Holocaust above all and variety of Holocaust above all would find itself in a position not to would find itself in a position not to would find itself in a position not to give the proper Justice to a people who give the proper Justice to a people who give the proper Justice to a people who could be their neighbors could be their neighbors could be their neighbors and that is a moral argument which I and that is a moral argument which I and that is a moral argument which I cannot believe under any circumstances

cannot believe under any circumstances cannot believe under any circumstances can be accepted second in real terms can be accepted second in real terms can be accepted second in real terms what do you want to you want to commit what do you want to you want to commit what do you want to you want to commit to genocide to genocide to genocide do you have a population there do you have a population there do you have a population there that you have to come to terms with it that you have to come to terms with it that you have to come to terms with it and you cannot just postpone as they did and you cannot just postpone as they did and you cannot just postpone as they did since 67 they are postponing and hoping since 67 they are postponing and hoping since 67 they are postponing and hoping that it goes away somehow that it goes away somehow that it goes away somehow I don't think it's going to go away I don't think it's going to go away I don't think it's going to go away and and it's going to get worse right and and it's going to get worse right and and it's going to get worse right and better and better and better it's a long nuanced discussion and I it's a long nuanced discussion and I it's a long nuanced discussion and I look forward to having it so just leave look forward to having it so just leave look forward to having it so just leave it it it um there for the moment um there for the moment um there for the moment uh but it is a stressful place in the world uh where a stressful place in the world uh where the rhetoric is existential or Iran yeah the rhetoric is existential or Iran yeah the rhetoric is existential or Iran yeah it makes claims that he wants to wipe it makes claims that he wants to wipe it makes claims that he wants to wipe a country off the face of the Earth it's a country off the face of the Earth it's a country off the face of the Earth it's just the level of of intensity of just the level of of intensity of just the level of of intensity of rhetoric is unlike anywhere else in the rhetoric is unlike anywhere else in the rhetoric is unlike anywhere else in the world and extremely dangerous and in in world and extremely dangerous and in in world and extremely dangerous and in in both directions so one the real danger both directions so one the real danger both directions so one the real danger of the rhetoric actually being acted of the rhetoric actually being acted of the rhetoric actually being acted upon upon upon and then the extreme and then the extreme and then the extreme political parties using the rhetoric to political parties using the rhetoric to political parties using the rhetoric to justify justify justify even a greater escalation even a greater escalation even a greater escalation so uh yeah if Iran is saying that this

so uh yeah if Iran is saying that this so uh yeah if Iran is saying that this is it's saying that they're wanting to is it's saying that they're wanting to is it's saying that they're wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth wipe Israel off the face of the Earth wipe Israel off the face of the Earth that justifies any response that justifies any response that justifies any response uh on the other side on the other side uh on the other side on the other side uh on the other side on the other side of course I tend to agree with you fully of course I tend to agree with you fully of course I tend to agree with you fully and unfortunately this is a very and unfortunately this is a very and unfortunately this is a very critical situation that critical situation that critical situation that uh this region is facing Iran in uh this region is facing Iran in uh this region is facing Iran in particular particular particular I would say that I would say that I would say that um um um I hope that in the minds of the people I hope that in the minds of the people I hope that in the minds of the people of Israel of Israel of Israel there is a enough or common sense to there is a enough or common sense to there is a enough or common sense to realize that realize that realize that probably escalation on the Israeli side probably escalation on the Israeli side probably escalation on the Israeli side is not in the favor of anybody is not in the favor of anybody is not in the favor of anybody and try to let the Iranians to go on and try to let the Iranians to go on and try to let the Iranians to go on with their with their with their empty rhetoric empty rhetoric empty rhetoric as they do so far but as they do so far but as they do so far but at the same time I cannot deny the fact at the same time I cannot deny the fact at the same time I cannot deny the fact that that that you know there is a danger on the side you know there is a danger on the side you know there is a danger on the side of this regime and what it says it of this regime and what it says it of this regime and what it says it cannot be denied nobody can justify that cannot be denied nobody can justify that cannot be denied nobody can justify that uh particularly because the Iranian uh particularly because the Iranian uh particularly because the Iranian population is not behind this regime population is not behind this regime population is not behind this regime certainly in the case of the certainly in the case of the certainly in the case of the Palestinians or for that matter it's not Palestinians or for that matter it's not Palestinians or for that matter it's not Palestine it's the the the Palestine it's the the the Palestine it's the the the Islamic Republic's involvement in Islamic Republic's involvement in Islamic Republic's involvement in Lebanon with Hezbollah it's the Islamic Lebanon with Hezbollah it's the Islamic Lebanon with Hezbollah it's the Islamic Republic's involvement in Syria with

Republic's involvement in Syria with Republic's involvement in Syria with pasture Assad its involvement in other pasture Assad its involvement in other pasture Assad its involvement in other parts of the World perhaps even Yemen parts of the World perhaps even Yemen parts of the World perhaps even Yemen that all of them creates extra that all of them creates extra that all of them creates extra territorial territorial territorial responsibilities or interventions responsibilities or interventions responsibilities or interventions unnecessary interventions unnecessary interventions unnecessary interventions that ultimately is not in favor of that ultimately is not in favor of that ultimately is not in favor of best interests of the Iranian people or best interests of the Iranian people or best interests of the Iranian people or Iran as a country Iran has never been Iran as a country Iran has never been Iran as a country Iran has never been involved in this kind of politics before involved in this kind of politics before involved in this kind of politics before after the Islamic Republic so in a sense after the Islamic Republic so in a sense after the Islamic Republic so in a sense the Iranian regime it seems to me by the Iranian regime it seems to me by the Iranian regime it seems to me by going to the extreme try to create for going to the extreme try to create for going to the extreme try to create for itself itself itself a a a pace pace pace that it did not have or did not deserve that it did not have or did not deserve that it did not have or did not deserve to have to have to have within the politics of the region he within the politics of the region he within the politics of the region he said so in other words that has become said so in other words that has become said so in other words that has become part of the tool a kind of an instrument part of the tool a kind of an instrument part of the tool a kind of an instrument for if you like to call it some kind of for if you like to call it some kind of for if you like to call it some kind of an expansionism an expansionism an expansionism of of the regime uh in parts of the of of the regime uh in parts of the of of the regime uh in parts of the world where it can see there is a world where it can see there is a world where it can see there is a possibility for for its presence for its possibility for for its presence for its possibility for for its presence for its expansion expansion expansion of course historically speaking Iran of course historically speaking Iran of course historically speaking Iran Everest's 15th century I think that's Everest's 15th century I think that's Everest's 15th century I think that's the earliest example I can see the earliest example I can see the earliest example I can see in mother in alibade times has always a

in mother in alibade times has always a in mother in alibade times has always a tendency of moving in the direction tendency of moving in the direction tendency of moving in the direction of not only what is today the state of of not only what is today the state of of not only what is today the state of Iraq but further into the eastern coast Iraq but further into the eastern coast Iraq but further into the eastern coast of mediterranea so that's a long-term of mediterranea so that's a long-term of mediterranea so that's a long-term ambition that has been in the cards as ambition that has been in the cards as ambition that has been in the cards as far as far as far as Iran as a strategic unit is cancer but Iran as a strategic unit is cancer but Iran as a strategic unit is cancer but by no means Justified and by no means by no means Justified and by no means by no means Justified and by no means could be a reasonable could be a sane could be a reasonable could be a sane could be a reasonable could be a sane policy of a nation state as today's Iran policy of a nation state as today's Iran policy of a nation state as today's Iran but the second point is that also regimes are always victims of their own regimes are always victims of their own rhetoric rhetoric rhetoric so it's I once you keep repeating so it's I once you keep repeating so it's I once you keep repeating something something something then you become more and more committed then you become more and more committed then you become more and more committed to it to it to it and it cannot remain anymore in the and it cannot remain anymore in the and it cannot remain anymore in the level of a rhetoric you have to do level of a rhetoric you have to do level of a rhetoric you have to do something about it says something something about it says something something about it says something compelling pressure compelling pressure compelling pressure to try to uh to uh to materialize what to try to uh to uh to materialize what to try to uh to uh to materialize what you've been saying in your rhetoric and you've been saying in your rhetoric and you've been saying in your rhetoric and that is even extremely more dangerous that is even extremely more dangerous that is even extremely more dangerous as far as Iran is concerned as far as Iran is concerned as far as Iran is concerned and it brings it to some Unholy and it brings it to some Unholy and it brings it to some Unholy alliances alliances alliances that today we are witnessing Iran is that today we are witnessing Iran is that today we are witnessing Iran is getting involved even more dangerous getting involved even more dangerous getting involved even more dangerous than this rhetoric uh in in terms of the

than this rhetoric uh in in terms of the than this rhetoric uh in in terms of the visible Israel is its involvement with visible Israel is its involvement with visible Israel is its involvement with uh Russia and to some extent with China uh Russia and to some extent with China uh Russia and to some extent with China which we can't talk about what do you which we can't talk about what do you which we can't talk about what do you think about the meeting between Harmony think about the meeting between Harmony think about the meeting between Harmony and Vladimir Putin in July and Vladimir Putin in July and Vladimir Putin in July what's that Alliance what's that what's that Alliance what's that what's that Alliance what's that partnership partnership partnership is its surface level geopolitics is is its surface level geopolitics is is its surface level geopolitics is there a deep growing connection there a deep growing connection there a deep growing connection I cannot see the difference between I cannot see the difference between I cannot see the difference between geopolitics and these deep connections I geopolitics and these deep connections I geopolitics and these deep connections I see this one and the same why see this one and the same why see this one and the same why because I think the experience because I think the experience because I think the experience 40 Years of 40 Years of 40 Years of distancing from the West distancing from the West distancing from the West in terms of the Islamic Republic in terms of the Islamic Republic in terms of the Islamic Republic and the fact that there is a and the fact that there is a and the fact that there is a shelf life to Imperial presence yeah for shelf life to Imperial presence yeah for shelf life to Imperial presence yeah for any Empire anywhere in the world any Empire anywhere in the world any Empire anywhere in the world so after the terrible experience of of so after the terrible experience of of so after the terrible experience of of the United States in the United States in the United States in Iraq Iraq Iraq and in Afghanistan and in Afghanistan and in Afghanistan pretty much like the British Empire that pretty much like the British Empire that pretty much like the British Empire that after destroys the experience in 56 after destroys the experience in 56 after destroys the experience in 56 decided to withdraw from decided to withdraw from decided to withdraw from east of Suez east of Suez east of Suez maybe there is a moment here that we are maybe there is a moment here that we are maybe there is a moment here that we are witnessing or it may come witnessing or it may come witnessing or it may come that a great power like the United

that a great power like the United that a great power like the United States sees in its benefits not to get States sees in its benefits not to get States sees in its benefits not to get too much involved into nitty-gritty too much involved into nitty-gritty too much involved into nitty-gritty things in other parts of the world that things in other parts of the world that things in other parts of the world that it's not its immediate cancer it's not its immediate cancer it's not its immediate cancer and I think that's and I think that's and I think that's part of the reason not the entire reason part of the reason not the entire reason part of the reason not the entire reason part of the reason why we see the part of the reason why we see the part of the reason why we see the emergence of a new emergence of a new emergence of a new geopolitical geopolitical geopolitical environments in this part of the world environments in this part of the world environments in this part of the world of which China of which China of which China Russia Russia Russia possibly Iran possibly turkey possibly possibly Iran possibly turkey possibly possibly Iran possibly turkey possibly both of them are going to be part both of them are going to be part both of them are going to be part perhaps Saudis also but I doubt that the perhaps Saudis also but I doubt that the perhaps Saudis also but I doubt that the Saudis under the presidency Saudis under the presidency Saudis under the presidency circumstances although we have witnessed circumstances although we have witnessed circumstances although we have witnessed some remarkable issue in the course of some remarkable issue in the course of some remarkable issue in the course of the past few weeks the past few weeks the past few weeks where the Saudis giving assurances to where the Saudis giving assurances to where the Saudis giving assurances to American Administration and then American Administration and then American Administration and then shifting and getting along with Putin in shifting and getting along with Putin in shifting and getting along with Putin in terms of the oil production I think it's terms of the oil production I think it's terms of the oil production I think it's more than that event and it's not only more than that event and it's not only more than that event and it's not only them but also the Emirates are doing the them but also the Emirates are doing the them but also the Emirates are doing the same thing so what does that just tell same thing so what does that just tell same thing so what does that just tell us and that's another us and that's another us and that's another many hour conversation about the the many hour conversation about the the many hour conversation about the the world industry in in Iran and the the world industry in in Iran and the the world industry in in Iran and the the whole region in emerging this kind of a whole region in emerging this kind of a whole region in emerging this kind of a world world world which was perhaps even 10 years ago which was perhaps even 10 years ago which was perhaps even 10 years ago unimaginable yeah that you see now a

unimaginable yeah that you see now a unimaginable yeah that you see now a great power China that it's going to great power China that it's going to great power China that it's going to remain from what we see around us as a remain from what we see around us as a remain from what we see around us as a great power great power great power and Russia adventurous and Russia adventurous and Russia adventurous foolish but nevertheless would remain foolish but nevertheless would remain foolish but nevertheless would remain a criminal I would say as far as the Its a criminal I would say as far as the Its a criminal I would say as far as the Its Behavior in Ukraine Behavior in Ukraine Behavior in Ukraine but actually it's a rogue nation that it but actually it's a rogue nation that it but actually it's a rogue nation that it attracts another Rogue Nation so Iran attracts another Rogue Nation so Iran attracts another Rogue Nation so Iran finds itself now in a greater place of finds itself now in a greater place of finds itself now in a greater place of security in Alliance with Russia security in Alliance with Russia security in Alliance with Russia in the hope that this would give Iran a in the hope that this would give Iran a in the hope that this would give Iran a greatest Security in this part of the greatest Security in this part of the greatest Security in this part of the world world world whether this is whether this is uh whether this is whether this is uh whether this is whether this is uh realistic or a illusion realistic or a illusion realistic or a illusion I think remains to be seen I think Iran I think remains to be seen I think Iran I think remains to be seen I think Iran China relation makes more sense China relation makes more sense China relation makes more sense uh although if you ask ordinary Iranians uh although if you ask ordinary Iranians uh although if you ask ordinary Iranians they don't like it they don't like it they don't like it they will tell why should we be tied up they will tell why should we be tied up they will tell why should we be tied up with uh with China as the only uh trade with uh with China as the only uh trade with uh with China as the only uh trade party with with America because of the I party with with America because of the I party with with America because of the I foolish isolations that you have created foolish isolations that you have created foolish isolations that you have created for us because of all the sanctions that for us because of all the sanctions that for us because of all the sanctions that you have created for us the Islamic you have created for us the Islamic you have created for us the Islamic Republic Republic Republic so in a sense it's a very difficult

so in a sense it's a very difficult so in a sense it's a very difficult question to answer probably Iranians question to answer probably Iranians question to answer probably Iranians also like to be more on the other camp also like to be more on the other camp also like to be more on the other camp but what happens is that in real term but what happens is that in real term but what happens is that in real term so what surprises me most so what surprises me most so what surprises me most is not this alliance with China but it's is not this alliance with China but it's is not this alliance with China but it's kind of becoming kind of becoming kind of becoming a lucky or subservient a lucky or subservient a lucky or subservient to Putin's regime in in Russia to Putin's regime in in Russia to Putin's regime in in Russia since if you look at it since if you look at it since if you look at it Iran Iran Iran ever since at least the 19th century not ever since at least the 19th century not ever since at least the 19th century not going further back going further back going further back the beginning of the 19th century always the beginning of the 19th century always the beginning of the 19th century always viewed Russia as the greatest threat viewed Russia as the greatest threat viewed Russia as the greatest threat strategically because it was sitting strategically because it was sitting strategically because it was sitting right at the top of Iran it was right at the top of Iran it was right at the top of Iran it was uh it was uh it was uh it was uh infinitely more powerful than Iran uh infinitely more powerful than Iran uh infinitely more powerful than Iran has ever been has ever been has ever been and Iran for two rounds of War at the and Iran for two rounds of War at the and Iran for two rounds of War at the beginning of the century lost the entire beginning of the century lost the entire beginning of the century lost the entire caucuses caucuses caucuses to Russia and led its lesson to Russia and led its lesson to Russia and led its lesson that that that you have to be mindful of Russia you have to be mindful of Russia you have to be mindful of Russia and you have to keep it as an arms and you have to keep it as an arms and you have to keep it as an arms length and that's what was the Iran's length and that's what was the Iran's length and that's what was the Iran's policy throughout the course of the 20th policy throughout the course of the 20th policy throughout the course of the 20th century 19th and 20th Century up to what century 19th and 20th Century up to what century 19th and 20th Century up to what we see now around us which is a very

we see now around us which is a very we see now around us which is a very strange situation strange situation strange situation um um um whether the balance has changed whether the balance has changed whether the balance has changed in terms of in terms of in terms of if this if Russia is purchasing weapons if this if Russia is purchasing weapons if this if Russia is purchasing weapons from from from from Iran which was unheard of from Iran which was unheard of from Iran which was unheard of it means that there is a new it means that there is a new it means that there is a new balance is emerging a new relationship balance is emerging a new relationship balance is emerging a new relationship is emerging is emerging is emerging perhaps remains to be seen but uh perhaps remains to be seen but uh perhaps remains to be seen but uh if you look at the Historical precedence if you look at the Historical precedence if you look at the Historical precedence it would have been enormously unwise it would have been enormously unwise it would have been enormously unwise to to to be an ally of be an ally of be an ally of Russia given its long history of Russia given its long history of Russia given its long history of aggression in Iraq see Russians aggression in Iraq see Russians aggression in Iraq see Russians part of the reason why it's actually part of the reason why it's actually part of the reason why it's actually Iran Allied itself with British Empire Iran Allied itself with British Empire Iran Allied itself with British Empire was the fact that it was so much afraid was the fact that it was so much afraid was the fact that it was so much afraid of the Russian expansion of the Russian expansion of the Russian expansion and as such I don't know what's going to and as such I don't know what's going to and as such I don't know what's going to be the future of this relationship there be the future of this relationship there be the future of this relationship there is a big disconnect between uh is a big disconnect between uh is a big disconnect between uh governments and the people and I think governments and the people and I think governments and the people and I think ultimately I have faith that there's a ultimately I have faith that there's a ultimately I have faith that there's a love across the different cultures love across the different cultures love across the different cultures across the different religions amongst across the different religions amongst across the different religions amongst the people and the governments are the the people and the governments are the the people and the governments are the source of the division and the conflict source of the division and the conflict source of the division and the conflict and the wars and all the geopolitics and the wars and all the geopolitics and the wars and all the geopolitics that isn't part grounded in the battle

that isn't part grounded in the battle that isn't part grounded in the battle for resources and all that kind of stuff for resources and all that kind of stuff for resources and all that kind of stuff nevertheless this is the world we live nevertheless this is the world we live nevertheless this is the world we live in so you've looked at the modern in so you've looked at the modern in so you've looked at the modern history of Iran the past few centuries history of Iran the past few centuries history of Iran the past few centuries if you look into the future of this if you look into the future of this if you look into the future of this region region region Now you kind of implied that historian Now you kind of implied that historian Now you kind of implied that historian has a bit of a cynical View has a bit of a cynical View has a bit of a cynical View of protests and things like this of protests and things like this of protests and things like this um that are fueled at least in the minds um that are fueled at least in the minds um that are fueled at least in the minds of young people with hope of young people with hope of young people with hope if you were to just for a while have a if you were to just for a while have a if you were to just for a while have a bit of Hope in your heart and your mind bit of Hope in your heart and your mind bit of Hope in your heart and your mind what is a hopeful future for the next 10 what is a hopeful future for the next 10 what is a hopeful future for the next 10 20 30 years of Iran I'm not cynical 20 30 years of Iran I'm not cynical 20 30 years of Iran I'm not cynical I'm trying to be realistic I'm trying to be realistic I'm trying to be realistic and I actually may be critical but I and I actually may be critical but I and I actually may be critical but I have Great Hopes have Great Hopes have Great Hopes uh in Iran's future for a variety of uh in Iran's future for a variety of uh in Iran's future for a variety of reasons I actually did write an article reasons I actually did write an article reasons I actually did write an article only if the last version of it is going only if the last version of it is going only if the last version of it is going to go out today to go out today to go out today in which the title of it is the time of in which the title of it is the time of in which the title of it is the time of fear and women of Hope fear and women of Hope fear and women of Hope which in a sense is this whole which in a sense is this whole which in a sense is this whole coverage but what this movement means coverage but what this movement means coverage but what this movement means like that we see today pin May fizzle like that we see today pin May fizzle like that we see today pin May fizzle in a few weeks time or it may just go on in a few weeks time or it may just go on in a few weeks time or it may just go on and create a new and create a new and create a new Dynamics in Iranian society that would Dynamics in Iranian society that would Dynamics in Iranian society that would hopefully resolve

hopefully resolve hopefully resolve in a peaceful process of Greater in a peaceful process of Greater in a peaceful process of Greater accommodation and the greater tolerance accommodation and the greater tolerance accommodation and the greater tolerance within the Iranian society and with the within the Iranian society and with the within the Iranian society and with the outside world outside world outside world and I think majority of the Iranian and I think majority of the Iranian and I think majority of the Iranian people don't want tension people don't want tension people don't want tension don't run confrontation don't run confrontation don't run confrontation don't want crisis don't want crisis don't want crisis day if 40 years they have suffered day if 40 years they have suffered day if 40 years they have suffered from a regime that have dictated an from a regime that have dictated an from a regime that have dictated an ideology that it's ideology that it's ideology that it's uh regressive uh regressive uh regressive and impractical they want to go back to and impractical they want to go back to and impractical they want to go back to a life a life a life in which they don't in which they don't in which they don't They Don't Really create trouble for They Don't Really create trouble for They Don't Really create trouble for their neighbors or for the world their neighbors or for the world their neighbors or for the world and therefore I would see a better and therefore I would see a better and therefore I would see a better future for Iran that's for one reason future for Iran that's for one reason future for Iran that's for one reason it's strategically it's strategically it's strategically or geopolitically maybe in Iran's or geopolitically maybe in Iran's or geopolitically maybe in Iran's advantage in a peaceful fashion to advantage in a peaceful fashion to advantage in a peaceful fashion to negotiate negotiate negotiate as it's the fate of all the nations as it's the fate of all the nations as it's the fate of all the nations rather than commit itself or rather than commit itself or rather than commit itself or sworn to a particular sworn to a particular sworn to a particular course of a policy course of a policy course of a policy so there's a give and take as the nature so there's a give and take as the nature so there's a give and take as the nature of politics is the art of possible as of politics is the art of possible as of politics is the art of possible as it's been said it's been said it's been said so probably Iran is going to be

so probably Iran is going to be so probably Iran is going to be hopefully moving that direction I think hopefully moving that direction I think hopefully moving that direction I think there is a generational thing that's the there is a generational thing that's the there is a generational thing that's the third reason third reason third reason no matter how much no matter how much no matter how much the Islamic Republic tried the Islamic Republic tried the Islamic Republic tried to islamicize the Iranian Society in its to islamicize the Iranian Society in its to islamicize the Iranian Society in its own image own image own image of kind of radical of kind of radical of kind of radical ideological indoctrination it has failed ideological indoctrination it has failed ideological indoctrination it has failed it has failed up to it has failed up to it has failed up to what we see today in the Iranian streets what we see today in the Iranian streets what we see today in the Iranian streets and the Iranian population said no to it and the Iranian population said no to it and the Iranian population said no to it and I think and I think and I think if there would have been and they very if there would have been and they very if there would have been and they very much hope there will be a possibility much hope there will be a possibility much hope there will be a possibility for a for a for a more open environment more open space more open environment more open space more open environment more open space where they would be able to speak them where they would be able to speak them where they would be able to speak them their views out their views out their views out Iranians are not on the side of moving Iranians are not on the side of moving Iranians are not on the side of moving in the extreme directions in the extreme directions in the extreme directions they are in the side of Greater they are in the side of Greater they are in the side of Greater accommodation and the greater interest accommodation and the greater interest accommodation and the greater interest in the outside world in the outside world in the outside world and if you look at every aspect of and if you look at every aspect of and if you look at every aspect of today's beside the government every today's beside the government every today's beside the government every aspect of life in today's Iran we can aspect of life in today's Iran we can aspect of life in today's Iran we can see that from the way that people dress see that from the way that people dress see that from the way that people dress to the way that they try to live their to the way that they try to live their to the way that they try to live their lives lives lives to the way that you're educating to the way that you're educating to the way that you're educating themselves or by educated in the

themselves or by educated in the themselves or by educated in the institutions institutions institutions do you see a desire an intention to move do you see a desire an intention to move do you see a desire an intention to move forward and I'm optimistic forward and I'm optimistic forward and I'm optimistic well in that struggle for Freedom like I well in that struggle for Freedom like I well in that struggle for Freedom like I told you offline told you offline told you offline I want my close childhood friends is I want my close childhood friends is I want my close childhood friends is Iranian just beautiful person as Iranian just beautiful person as Iranian just beautiful person as families is a wonderful family and on a families is a wonderful family and on a families is a wonderful family and on a personal level is one of the deeper personal level is one of the deeper personal level is one of the deeper Windows into the Iranian spirit and soul Windows into the Iranian spirit and soul Windows into the Iranian spirit and soul that I've gotten a chance to witness so that I've gotten a chance to witness so that I've gotten a chance to witness so I really appreciate it but in the recent I really appreciate it but in the recent I really appreciate it but in the recent times I've gotten to hear from a lot of times I've gotten to hear from a lot of times I've gotten to hear from a lot of people that are currently living in Iran people that are currently living in Iran people that are currently living in Iran that are currently have that burning that are currently have that burning that are currently have that burning hope for the future of the country and hope for the future of the country and hope for the future of the country and so my love goes out to them and the so my love goes out to them and the so my love goes out to them and the struggle for freedom I ask it's so nice struggle for freedom I ask it's so nice struggle for freedom I ask it's so nice of you to say so and I very much hope so of you to say so and I very much hope so of you to say so and I very much hope so uh there are moments of spare and there uh there are moments of spare and there uh there are moments of spare and there are moments that that you would think are moments that that you would think are moments that that you would think that there is no hope and that there is no hope and that there is no hope and uh but but then again something uh but but then again something uh but but then again something triggers and you see hundred thousand triggers and you see hundred thousand triggers and you see hundred thousand people in the streets of Berlin uh that people in the streets of Berlin uh that people in the streets of Berlin uh that are hoping for a better future for you are hoping for a better future for you are hoping for a better future for you and I very much hope it eventually and I very much hope it eventually and I very much hope it eventually emerges even I'm hoping at the same time emerges even I'm hoping at the same time emerges even I'm hoping at the same time that it's not going to be a very strong that it's not going to be a very strong that it's not going to be a very strong leadership as it was the case in the leadership as it was the case in the leadership as it was the case in the past past past we started with hope we ended with hope we started with hope we ended with hope we started with hope we ended with hope this was a real honor this is an this was a real honor this is an this was a real honor this is an incredible conversation thank you for

incredible conversation thank you for incredible conversation thank you for um thank you for giving such a a deep um thank you for giving such a a deep um thank you for giving such a a deep and uh wide and uh wide and uh wide story of this great nation one of the story of this great nation one of the story of this great nation one of the great nations in history well that's the great nations in history well that's the great nations in history well that's the kind of used to say so thank you for kind of used to say so thank you for kind of used to say so thank you for sitting down today well a history that sitting down today well a history that sitting down today well a history that as I've said in the start of my book as I've said in the start of my book as I've said in the start of my book I States the history of a nation which I States the history of a nation which I States the history of a nation which has learned a huge amount from from the has learned a huge amount from from the has learned a huge amount from from the outside world by force of its geography outside world by force of its geography outside world by force of its geography it was always located somewhere that it was always located somewhere that it was always located somewhere that people would invade yeah or come for people would invade yeah or come for people would invade yeah or come for trade or something happened to it that trade or something happened to it that trade or something happened to it that is this diffused culture continue to and is this diffused culture continue to and is this diffused culture continue to and they were not afraid of learning or they were not afraid of learning or they were not afraid of learning or adopting as they do right now today adopting as they do right now today adopting as they do right now today this is a very different society never a this is a very different society never a this is a very different society never a boring moment in its history as you boring moment in its history as you boring moment in its history as you write about thank you so much this is write about thank you so much this is write about thank you so much this is awesome thank you awesome thank you awesome thank you thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with abasamana to support conversation with abasamana to support conversation with abasamana to support this podcast please check out our this podcast please check out our this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now let sponsors in the description and now let sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with a few words from me leave you with a few words from me leave you with a few words from Martin Luther King Jr Martin Luther King Jr Martin Luther King Jr from every Mountainside Let Freedom Ring from every Mountainside Let Freedom Ring from every Mountainside Let Freedom Ring thank you for listening I hope to see thank you for listening I hope to see thank you for listening I hope to see you next time