Robert Playter: Boston Dynamics CEO on Humanoid and Legged Robotics | Lex Fridman Podcast #374

and so our goal was a natural looking and so our goal was a natural looking gate it was real it was surprisingly gate it was real it was surprisingly gate it was real it was surprisingly hard to get that to work hard to get that to work hard to get that to work um and we but we did build an early um and we but we did build an early um and we but we did build an early machine machine machine uh we called it pet man prototype it was uh we called it pet man prototype it was uh we called it pet man prototype it was the Prototype before the Pac-Man robot the Prototype before the Pac-Man robot the Prototype before the Pac-Man robot and it had a really nice looking and it had a really nice looking and it had a really nice looking gate where you know it would stick the gate where you know it would stick the gate where you know it would stick the leg out it would do heel strike first leg out it would do heel strike first leg out it would do heel strike first before it rolled onto the toe so you before it rolled onto the toe so you before it rolled onto the toe so you didn't land with a flat foot you didn't land with a flat foot you didn't land with a flat foot you extended your leg a little bit extended your leg a little bit extended your leg a little bit um but even then it was hard to get the um but even then it was hard to get the um but even then it was hard to get the robot to walk where when you're walking robot to walk where when you're walking robot to walk where when you're walking that it fully extended its leg that it fully extended its leg that it fully extended its leg and getting that all to work well and getting that all to work well and getting that all to work well took such a long time in fact I I took such a long time in fact I I took such a long time in fact I I probably didn't really see the nice probably didn't really see the nice probably didn't really see the nice natural walking that I expected out of natural walking that I expected out of natural walking that I expected out of our humanoids until maybe last year our humanoids until maybe last year our humanoids until maybe last year and the team was developing on our newer and the team was developing on our newer and the team was developing on our newer generation of Atlas you know some new generation of Atlas you know some new generation of Atlas you know some new techniques techniques techniques for developing a walking control for developing a walking control for developing a walking control algorithm and they got that natural algorithm and they got that natural algorithm and they got that natural looking motion as sort of a byproduct of looking motion as sort of a byproduct of looking motion as sort of a byproduct of a just a different process that we're a just a different process that we're a just a different process that we're applying to developing the control applying to developing the control applying to developing the control so that probably took 15 years 10 to 15 so that probably took 15 years 10 to 15 so that probably took 15 years 10 to 15 years to sort of get that from from you years to sort of get that from from you years to sort of get that from from you know know know the Petman prototype was probably in the Petman prototype was probably in the Petman prototype was probably in 2008 and what was it 2022 last year that 2008 and what was it 2022 last year that 2008 and what was it 2022 last year that I think I saw a good walking on Atlas the following is a conversation with the following is a conversation with Robert plater CEO of Boston Dynamics a

Robert plater CEO of Boston Dynamics a Robert plater CEO of Boston Dynamics a legendary robotics company that over 30 legendary robotics company that over 30 legendary robotics company that over 30 years has created some of the most years has created some of the most years has created some of the most elegant dexterous and simply amazing elegant dexterous and simply amazing elegant dexterous and simply amazing robots ever built including the humanoid robots ever built including the humanoid robots ever built including the humanoid robot Atlas and the robot dog spot robot Atlas and the robot dog spot robot Atlas and the robot dog spot one or both of whom you've probably seen one or both of whom you've probably seen one or both of whom you've probably seen on the internet either dancing doing on the internet either dancing doing on the internet either dancing doing backflips opening doors or uh throwing backflips opening doors or uh throwing backflips opening doors or uh throwing around heavy objects around heavy objects around heavy objects Robert has led both the development of Robert has led both the development of Robert has led both the development of Boston Dynamics humanoid robots and Boston Dynamics humanoid robots and Boston Dynamics humanoid robots and their physics-based simulation software their physics-based simulation software their physics-based simulation software he has been with the company from the he has been with the company from the he has been with the company from the very beginning including its roots at very beginning including its roots at very beginning including its roots at MIT where he received his PhD in MIT where he received his PhD in MIT where he received his PhD in Aeronautical Engineering this was in Aeronautical Engineering this was in Aeronautical Engineering this was in 1994 at the legendary MIT leg lab he 1994 at the legendary MIT leg lab he 1994 at the legendary MIT leg lab he wrote his PhD thesis on robot gymnastics wrote his PhD thesis on robot gymnastics wrote his PhD thesis on robot gymnastics as part of which he programmed a bipedal as part of which he programmed a bipedal as part of which he programmed a bipedal robot to do the world's first 3D robotic robot to do the world's first 3D robotic robot to do the world's first 3D robotic somersault somersault somersault Robert is a great engineer robot Robert is a great engineer robot Robert is a great engineer robot assistant leader and Boston Dynamics to assistant leader and Boston Dynamics to assistant leader and Boston Dynamics to me as a roboticist is a truly inspiring me as a roboticist is a truly inspiring me as a roboticist is a truly inspiring company this conversation was a big company this conversation was a big company this conversation was a big honor and pleasure and I hope to do a honor and pleasure and I hope to do a honor and pleasure and I hope to do a lot of great work with these robots in lot of great work with these robots in lot of great work with these robots in the years to come the years to come the years to come this is the Lex Freedom podcast to this is the Lex Freedom podcast to this is the Lex Freedom podcast to support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends here's Robert plater here's Robert plater here's Robert plater when did you first fall in love with when did you first fall in love with when did you first fall in love with robotics robotics robotics let's start with love and robots well

let's start with love and robots well let's start with love and robots well love is is relevant because I think the love is is relevant because I think the love is is relevant because I think the the fascination the Deep Fascination is the fascination the Deep Fascination is the fascination the Deep Fascination is really about movement really about movement really about movement and uh and uh and uh I was visiting MIT looking for a place I was visiting MIT looking for a place I was visiting MIT looking for a place to get a PhD and I wanted to do some to get a PhD and I wanted to do some to get a PhD and I wanted to do some laboratory work and one of my professors laboratory work and one of my professors laboratory work and one of my professors at in the Aero Department said go see at in the Aero Department said go see at in the Aero Department said go see this guy mark raber down in the basement this guy mark raber down in the basement this guy mark raber down in the basement of the AI lab of the AI lab of the AI lab and so I walked down there and saw him and so I walked down there and saw him and so I walked down there and saw him he showed me his robots he showed me his robots he showed me his robots and he showed me this robot doing a and he showed me this robot doing a and he showed me this robot doing a somersault somersault somersault and I just immediately went whoa you and I just immediately went whoa you and I just immediately went whoa you know yeah robots can do that and because know yeah robots can do that and because know yeah robots can do that and because of my own interest in in gymnastics of my own interest in in gymnastics of my own interest in in gymnastics there was like this immediate connection there was like this immediate connection there was like this immediate connection and um you know I was interested in I and um you know I was interested in I and um you know I was interested in I was in an arrow Astro degree because you was in an arrow Astro degree because you was in an arrow Astro degree because you know flight and movement was all so know flight and movement was all so know flight and movement was all so fascinating to me and then it turned out fascinating to me and then it turned out fascinating to me and then it turned out that you know robotics had this big that you know robotics had this big that you know robotics had this big challenge how do you how do you balance challenge how do you how do you balance challenge how do you how do you balance uh how do you how do you build a legged uh how do you how do you build a legged uh how do you how do you build a legged robot that can really get around robot that can really get around robot that can really get around and that just that was a Fascination and and that just that was a Fascination and and that just that was a Fascination and it still exists today you're still it still exists today you're still it still exists today you're still working on perfecting Motion in robots working on perfecting Motion in robots working on perfecting Motion in robots what about the elegance and the beauty what about the elegance and the beauty what about the elegance and the beauty of the movement itself is is there of the movement itself is is there of the movement itself is is there something something something maybe grounded in your appreciation of maybe grounded in your appreciation of maybe grounded in your appreciation of uh movement from your gymnastics days uh movement from your gymnastics days uh movement from your gymnastics days did you did you did you was there something you just was there something you just was there something you just fundamentally appreciate about the fundamentally appreciate about the fundamentally appreciate about the elegance and beauty of movement you know elegance and beauty of movement you know elegance and beauty of movement you know we had this concept in in gymnastics of we had this concept in in gymnastics of we had this concept in in gymnastics of um

um um letting your body do what it wanted to letting your body do what it wanted to letting your body do what it wanted to do when you get really good at do when you get really good at do when you get really good at gymnastics gymnastics gymnastics part of what you're doing is putting part of what you're doing is putting part of what you're doing is putting your your body into a position where the your your body into a position where the your your body into a position where the physics and the body's inertia and physics and the body's inertia and physics and the body's inertia and momentum will kind of push you in the momentum will kind of push you in the momentum will kind of push you in the right direction in a very natural and right direction in a very natural and right direction in a very natural and organic way organic way organic way and the thing that Mark was doing you and the thing that Mark was doing you and the thing that Mark was doing you know in the basement of that laboratory know in the basement of that laboratory know in the basement of that laboratory was trying to figure out how to build was trying to figure out how to build was trying to figure out how to build machines to take advantage of those machines to take advantage of those machines to take advantage of those ideas how do you build something so that ideas how do you build something so that ideas how do you build something so that the physics of the machine just kind of the physics of the machine just kind of the physics of the machine just kind of inherently wants to do what it wants to inherently wants to do what it wants to inherently wants to do what it wants to do and he was building these springy do and he was building these springy do and he was building these springy pogo stick type you know his first cut pogo stick type you know his first cut pogo stick type you know his first cut at Lego Locomotion was a pogo stick at Lego Locomotion was a pogo stick at Lego Locomotion was a pogo stick where it's bouncing and there's a spring where it's bouncing and there's a spring where it's bouncing and there's a spring Mass Mass Mass a system that's oscillating has its own a system that's oscillating has its own a system that's oscillating has its own sort of natural frequency there and sort sort of natural frequency there and sort sort of natural frequency there and sort of figuring out how to augment those of figuring out how to augment those of figuring out how to augment those natural physics natural physics natural physics with also intent how do you then control with also intent how do you then control with also intent how do you then control that but not overpower it it's that that but not overpower it it's that that but not overpower it it's that coordination that I think creates real coordination that I think creates real coordination that I think creates real potential we could call it Beauty yeah potential we could call it Beauty yeah potential we could call it Beauty yeah you could call it I don't know Synergy you could call it I don't know Synergy you could call it I don't know Synergy that people have different words for it that people have different words for it that people have different words for it but I think that that was inherent from but I think that that was inherent from but I think that that was inherent from the beginning that was clear to me that the beginning that was clear to me that the beginning that was clear to me that that's part of what Mark was trying to that's part of what Mark was trying to that's part of what Mark was trying to do he asked me to do that in my research do he asked me to do that in my research do he asked me to do that in my research work so work so work so um you know that's where I got going so um you know that's where I got going so um you know that's where I got going so part of the thing that I think I'm part of the thing that I think I'm part of the thing that I think I'm calling elegance and Beauty in this case calling elegance and Beauty in this case calling elegance and Beauty in this case which was there even with the pogo stick which was there even with the pogo stick which was there even with the pogo stick is maybe the efficiency so letting the is maybe the efficiency so letting the is maybe the efficiency so letting the body do what it wants to do body do what it wants to do body do what it wants to do trying to discover the efficient

trying to discover the efficient trying to discover the efficient movement it's definitely more efficient movement it's definitely more efficient movement it's definitely more efficient it also becomes easier to control in its it also becomes easier to control in its it also becomes easier to control in its own way because the physics are solving own way because the physics are solving own way because the physics are solving some of the problem itself it's not like some of the problem itself it's not like some of the problem itself it's not like you have to do all this calculation and you have to do all this calculation and you have to do all this calculation and overpower the physics the physics overpower the physics the physics overpower the physics the physics naturally inherently want to do the naturally inherently want to do the naturally inherently want to do the right thing right thing right thing there can even be you know a feedback there can even be you know a feedback there can even be you know a feedback mechanisms stabilizing mechanisms mechanisms stabilizing mechanisms mechanisms stabilizing mechanisms that occur simply by virtue of the that occur simply by virtue of the that occur simply by virtue of the physics of the body and it's you know physics of the body and it's you know physics of the body and it's you know not all not all not all not all in the computer or not even all not all in the computer or not even all not all in the computer or not even all in your mind as a person and I there's in your mind as a person and I there's in your mind as a person and I there's something interesting in that melding something interesting in that melding something interesting in that melding you were with Mark for many many many you were with Mark for many many many you were with Mark for many many many years but you were there in this kind of years but you were there in this kind of years but you were there in this kind of legendary space legendary space legendary space of leg lab and a my team in the basement of leg lab and a my team in the basement of leg lab and a my team in the basement all great things happen in the basement all great things happen in the basement all great things happen in the basement is there some memories uh is there some is there some memories uh is there some is there some memories uh is there some money from that time money from that time money from that time that you have because it's so it's such that you have because it's so it's such that you have because it's so it's such Cutting Edge work Cutting Edge work Cutting Edge work in in in robotics and artificial in in in robotics and artificial in in in robotics and artificial intelligence intelligence intelligence the memories the distinctive lessons I the memories the distinctive lessons I the memories the distinctive lessons I would say I learned in that in that time would say I learned in that in that time would say I learned in that in that time period period period and um and that I think Mark was a great and um and that I think Mark was a great and um and that I think Mark was a great teacher of teacher of teacher of was it's okay to pursue your interest was it's okay to pursue your interest was it's okay to pursue your interest your curiosity do something because you your curiosity do something because you your curiosity do something because you love it love it love it um you'll do it a lot better if you love um you'll do it a lot better if you love um you'll do it a lot better if you love it it it um um um that that is a lasting lesson that I that that is a lasting lesson that I that that is a lasting lesson that I think uh we apply at the company still

think uh we apply at the company still think uh we apply at the company still um and really is a core value so the um and really is a core value so the um and really is a core value so the interesting thing is I got to um interesting thing is I got to um interesting thing is I got to um uh with people like Ross Cedric and uh with people like Ross Cedric and uh with people like Ross Cedric and um and others like the students that um and others like the students that um and others like the students that work at those robotics labs are like work at those robotics labs are like work at those robotics labs are like some of the happiest people I've ever some of the happiest people I've ever some of the happiest people I've ever met met met I don't know what that is I mean a lot I don't know what that is I mean a lot I don't know what that is I mean a lot of PhD students a lot of them are kind of PhD students a lot of them are kind of PhD students a lot of them are kind of broken by the wear and tear of the of broken by the wear and tear of the of broken by the wear and tear of the process uh but roboticists are while process uh but roboticists are while process uh but roboticists are while they work extremely hard and work a long they work extremely hard and work a long they work extremely hard and work a long hours hours hours there's a there's a there's a there's a happiness there the only other there's a happiness there the only other there's a happiness there the only other group of people I met like that are group of people I met like that are group of people I met like that are people that Skydive a lot like for some people that Skydive a lot like for some people that Skydive a lot like for some reason there's a deep fulfilling reason there's a deep fulfilling reason there's a deep fulfilling happiness maybe from like a long period happiness maybe from like a long period happiness maybe from like a long period of struggle to get a thing to work and of struggle to get a thing to work and of struggle to get a thing to work and it works and there's a magic to it I it works and there's a magic to it I it works and there's a magic to it I don't know exactly because it's so don't know exactly because it's so don't know exactly because it's so fundamentally Hands-On and you're fundamentally Hands-On and you're fundamentally Hands-On and you're bringing a thing to life I don't know bringing a thing to life I don't know bringing a thing to life I don't know what it is but they're happy what it is but they're happy what it is but they're happy we see you know our our attrition at the we see you know our our attrition at the we see you know our our attrition at the company is really low people come and company is really low people come and company is really low people come and they love the pursuit they love the pursuit they love the pursuit and I think part of that is that there's and I think part of that is that there's and I think part of that is that there's perhaps an external connection to it perhaps an external connection to it perhaps an external connection to it it's a little bit easier to connect when it's a little bit easier to connect when it's a little bit easier to connect when you have a robot that's moving around in you have a robot that's moving around in you have a robot that's moving around in the world and part of your goal is to the world and part of your goal is to the world and part of your goal is to make it move around in the world make it move around in the world make it move around in the world you can identify with that and and this you can identify with that and and this you can identify with that and and this is on a this is one of the unique things is on a this is one of the unique things is on a this is one of the unique things about the kinds of robots we're building about the kinds of robots we're building about the kinds of robots we're building is this physical interaction is this physical interaction is this physical interaction lets you perhaps identify with it so I lets you perhaps identify with it so I lets you perhaps identify with it so I think that is a source of happiness I think that is a source of happiness I think that is a source of happiness I don't think it's Unique to robotics I don't think it's Unique to robotics I don't think it's Unique to robotics I think anybody also who is just pursuing

think anybody also who is just pursuing think anybody also who is just pursuing something they love something they love something they love it's easier to work hard at it and be it's easier to work hard at it and be it's easier to work hard at it and be good at it and good at it and good at it and um um um not everybody gets to find that I I do not everybody gets to find that I I do not everybody gets to find that I I do feel lucky in that way and I think we're feel lucky in that way and I think we're feel lucky in that way and I think we're lucky as an organization that we've been lucky as an organization that we've been lucky as an organization that we've been able to build a business around this and able to build a business around this and able to build a business around this and that keeps people engaged that keeps people engaged that keeps people engaged so if it's all right let's link on mark so if it's all right let's link on mark so if it's all right let's link on mark for a little bit longer Mark raybert so for a little bit longer Mark raybert so for a little bit longer Mark raybert so he's a legend he's a legend he's a legend uh he's a legendary engineer Roboto says uh he's a legendary engineer Roboto says uh he's a legendary engineer Roboto says what what have you learned about life what what have you learned about life what what have you learned about life about Robotics and Mark through all the about Robotics and Mark through all the about Robotics and Mark through all the many years you worked with him I think many years you worked with him I think many years you worked with him I think the most important lesson which was you the most important lesson which was you the most important lesson which was you know have the courage of your know have the courage of your know have the courage of your convictions and and do what you think is convictions and and do what you think is convictions and and do what you think is interesting interesting interesting um um um be willing to try to find big big be willing to try to find big big be willing to try to find big big problems to go after and at the time you problems to go after and at the time you problems to go after and at the time you know like at Locomotion know like at Locomotion know like at Locomotion um especially in a dynamic machine um especially in a dynamic machine um especially in a dynamic machine nobody had solved it and that felt like nobody had solved it and that felt like nobody had solved it and that felt like a a a multi-decade problem to go after multi-decade problem to go after multi-decade problem to go after and so you know have the courage to go and so you know have the courage to go and so you know have the courage to go after that because you're interested after that because you're interested after that because you're interested don't worry if it's going to make money don't worry if it's going to make money don't worry if it's going to make money you know that that's been a theme so you know that that's been a theme so you know that that's been a theme so that that's really uh probably the most that that's really uh probably the most that that's really uh probably the most uh important lesson I think that uh I uh important lesson I think that uh I uh important lesson I think that uh I got from Mark how crazy is the effort of got from Mark how crazy is the effort of got from Mark how crazy is the effort of doing legged doing legged doing legged robotics at that time especially robotics at that time especially robotics at that time especially you know Mark got some stuff to work uh you know Mark got some stuff to work uh you know Mark got some stuff to work uh starting from the simple ideas oh so

starting from the simple ideas oh so starting from the simple ideas oh so maybe the other another important idea maybe the other another important idea maybe the other another important idea that has really become a value of the that has really become a value of the that has really become a value of the company is try to simplify a thing to company is try to simplify a thing to company is try to simplify a thing to the Core Essence the Core Essence the Core Essence and and while you know Mark was showing and and while you know Mark was showing and and while you know Mark was showing videos of animals running across the videos of animals running across the videos of animals running across the Savannah or uh uh climbing mountains Savannah or uh uh climbing mountains Savannah or uh uh climbing mountains what he started with was a pogo stick what he started with was a pogo stick what he started with was a pogo stick because he was trying to reduce the because he was trying to reduce the because he was trying to reduce the problem to something that was manageable problem to something that was manageable problem to something that was manageable and and getting the pogo stick to and and getting the pogo stick to and and getting the pogo stick to balance had in it balance had in it balance had in it the fundamental problems that if we the fundamental problems that if we the fundamental problems that if we solve those you could eventually solve those you could eventually solve those you could eventually extrapolate to something that galloped extrapolate to something that galloped extrapolate to something that galloped like a horse like a horse like a horse and so look for those simplifying and so look for those simplifying and so look for those simplifying principles principles principles um how tough is the job of simplifying a um how tough is the job of simplifying a um how tough is the job of simplifying a robot so I I'd say in the early days the robot so I I'd say in the early days the robot so I I'd say in the early days the the thing that made Boston the thing that made Boston the thing that made Boston the researchers at Boston Dynamics the researchers at Boston Dynamics the researchers at Boston Dynamics special special special is that we we worked on under figuring is that we we worked on under figuring is that we we worked on under figuring out what that that Central principle was out what that that Central principle was out what that that Central principle was and then building software or machines and then building software or machines and then building software or machines around that principle and that was not around that principle and that was not around that principle and that was not easy in the early days and and it it easy in the early days and and it it easy in the early days and and it it took took took um real expertise in understanding the um real expertise in understanding the um real expertise in understanding the Dynamics of motion and feedback control Dynamics of motion and feedback control Dynamics of motion and feedback control principles and how to build and with principles and how to build and with principles and how to build and with computers at the time how to build a computers at the time how to build a computers at the time how to build a feedback control algorithm that was feedback control algorithm that was feedback control algorithm that was simple enough that it could run in real simple enough that it could run in real simple enough that it could run in real time at a thousand Hertz time at a thousand Hertz time at a thousand Hertz and actually get that machine to work and actually get that machine to work and actually get that machine to work um and that was not something everybody um and that was not something everybody um and that was not something everybody was doing you know at that time

was doing you know at that time was doing you know at that time now the world's changing now and I I I now the world's changing now and I I I now the world's changing now and I I I think the approach is to controlling think the approach is to controlling think the approach is to controlling robots are going to change robots are going to change robots are going to change um but uh and they're going to become um but uh and they're going to become um but uh and they're going to become more broadly yet more broadly yet more broadly yet um available um available um available um but at the time there weren't many um but at the time there weren't many um but at the time there weren't many groups who could really sort of work at groups who could really sort of work at groups who could really sort of work at that principled level that principled level that principled level with both the software and with both the software and with both the software and and make the hardware work and make the hardware work and make the hardware work and I'll and I'll say one other thing and I'll and I'll say one other thing and I'll and I'll say one other thing about your sort of talking about what about your sort of talking about what about your sort of talking about what are the special things the other thing are the special things the other thing are the special things the other thing was it's okay it's good to break stuff was it's okay it's good to break stuff was it's okay it's good to break stuff you know you know you know um you know use the robots break them um you know use the robots break them um you know use the robots break them repair them repair them repair them um you know fix and repeat test fix and um you know fix and repeat test fix and um you know fix and repeat test fix and repeat and that and that's also a core repeat and that and that's also a core repeat and that and that's also a core principle that has become part of the principle that has become part of the principle that has become part of the company company company and it lets you be Fearless in your work and it lets you be Fearless in your work and it lets you be Fearless in your work too often if you are working with a very too often if you are working with a very too often if you are working with a very expensive robot maybe one that you expensive robot maybe one that you expensive robot maybe one that you bought from somebody else or that you bought from somebody else or that you bought from somebody else or that you don't know how to fix then you treat it don't know how to fix then you treat it don't know how to fix then you treat it with kit gloves and you can't actually with kit gloves and you can't actually with kit gloves and you can't actually make progress you have to be able to make progress you have to be able to make progress you have to be able to break something and so I think that's a break something and so I think that's a break something and so I think that's a been a a principle as well so just the been a a principle as well so just the been a a principle as well so just the link on that psychologically how do you link on that psychologically how do you link on that psychologically how do you deal with that because I remember I had deal with that because I remember I had deal with that because I remember I had uh uh uh uh I built a RC car uh I built a RC car uh I built a RC car with that some with that some with that some uh it had some custom stuff like compute uh it had some custom stuff like compute uh it had some custom stuff like compute on it and all that kind of stuff cameras on it and all that kind of stuff cameras on it and all that kind of stuff cameras and uh because I didn't sleep much the and uh because I didn't sleep much the and uh because I didn't sleep much the code I wrote has an issue where it

code I wrote has an issue where it code I wrote has an issue where it didn't stop the car and then the car got didn't stop the car and then the car got didn't stop the car and then the car got confused and at full speed at like 20 25 confused and at full speed at like 20 25 confused and at full speed at like 20 25 miles an hour slammed into a wall miles an hour slammed into a wall miles an hour slammed into a wall and I just remember sitting there alone and I just remember sitting there alone and I just remember sitting there alone in the deep sadness in the deep sadness in the deep sadness um um um sort of sort of sort of full of regret I think almost anger full of regret I think almost anger full of regret I think almost anger um um um uh but also like sadness because you uh but also like sadness because you uh but also like sadness because you think about well these robots especially think about well these robots especially think about well these robots especially for autonomous vehicles like like you for autonomous vehicles like like you for autonomous vehicles like like you should be taking safety very seriously should be taking safety very seriously should be taking safety very seriously even in these kinds of things but just even in these kinds of things but just even in these kinds of things but just no good feelings and made me more afraid no good feelings and made me more afraid no good feelings and made me more afraid probably to do this kind of experiments probably to do this kind of experiments probably to do this kind of experiments in the future perhaps the right way to in the future perhaps the right way to in the future perhaps the right way to have seen that is positively have seen that is positively have seen that is positively like it's it's too it depends if you like it's it's too it depends if you like it's it's too it depends if you could have built that car or or just could have built that car or or just could have built that car or or just gotten another one right that would have gotten another one right that would have gotten another one right that would have been the approach been the approach been the approach um I remember um um when I got to grad school when I got to grad school when I got to grad school um you know I got some training about uh um you know I got some training about uh um you know I got some training about uh operating a lathe and a mill up in the operating a lathe and a mill up in the operating a lathe and a mill up in the machine shop and I could start to make machine shop and I could start to make machine shop and I could start to make my own parts and I remember breaking my own parts and I remember breaking my own parts and I remember breaking some piece of equipment in the lab and some piece of equipment in the lab and some piece of equipment in the lab and then realizing then realizing then realizing because I maybe this was a unique part because I maybe this was a unique part because I maybe this was a unique part and I couldn't go buy it and I realized and I couldn't go buy it and I realized and I couldn't go buy it and I realized oh I can just go make it oh I can just go make it oh I can just go make it that was an enabling feeling yeah then that was an enabling feeling yeah then that was an enabling feeling yeah then you're not afraid yeah it might take you're not afraid yeah it might take you're not afraid yeah it might take time it might take more work than you time it might take more work than you time it might take more work than you thought it was going to be required to thought it was going to be required to thought it was going to be required to get this thing done get this thing done get this thing done but you can just go make it and that's but you can just go make it and that's but you can just go make it and that's freeing in a way that nothing else is

freeing in a way that nothing else is freeing in a way that nothing else is you mentioned uh the the feedback you mentioned uh the the feedback you mentioned uh the the feedback control the Dynamics sorry for the control the Dynamics sorry for the control the Dynamics sorry for the Romantic question but is in the early Romantic question but is in the early Romantic question but is in the early days and even now is the Dynamics days and even now is the Dynamics days and even now is the Dynamics probably more appropriate for the early probably more appropriate for the early probably more appropriate for the early days is it more art or science there's a lot of science around it there's a lot of science around it and and trying to develop you know and and trying to develop you know and and trying to develop you know scientific principles scientific principles scientific principles that let you extrapolate from like one that let you extrapolate from like one that let you extrapolate from like one legged machine to another legged machine to another legged machine to another you know develop a core set of you know develop a core set of you know develop a core set of principles like like a spring Mass principles like like a spring Mass principles like like a spring Mass bouncing system and then figure out how bouncing system and then figure out how bouncing system and then figure out how to apply that from a one-legged machine to apply that from a one-legged machine to apply that from a one-legged machine to a two or a four-legged machine those to a two or a four-legged machine those to a two or a four-legged machine those principles are really important and and principles are really important and and principles are really important and and we're definitely a core part of our work we're definitely a core part of our work we're definitely a core part of our work there's also there's also there's also you know when we started to pursue you know when we started to pursue you know when we started to pursue humanoid robots humanoid robots humanoid robots um there was so much complexity in that um there was so much complexity in that um there was so much complexity in that machine machine machine that that that you know one of the benefits of the you know one of the benefits of the you know one of the benefits of the humanoid form is you have some intuition humanoid form is you have some intuition humanoid form is you have some intuition about how it should look while it's about how it should look while it's about how it should look while it's moving moving moving and that's a little bit of an art I and that's a little bit of an art I and that's a little bit of an art I think and now I'd say or maybe it's just think and now I'd say or maybe it's just think and now I'd say or maybe it's just tapping into a knowledge that you have tapping into a knowledge that you have tapping into a knowledge that you have deep in your body and then trying to deep in your body and then trying to deep in your body and then trying to express that in the machine but that's express that in the machine but that's express that in the machine but that's an intuition that's a little bit more on an intuition that's a little bit more on an intuition that's a little bit more on the art side maybe it it predates your the art side maybe it it predates your the art side maybe it it predates your knowledge you know before you have the knowledge you know before you have the knowledge you know before you have the knowledge of how to control it you try knowledge of how to control it you try knowledge of how to control it you try to work through the Art Channel and to work through the Art Channel and to work through the Art Channel and humanoids sort of make that available to humanoids sort of make that available to humanoids sort of make that available to you if it had been a different shape

you if it had been a different shape you if it had been a different shape maybe we wouldn't have had the same maybe we wouldn't have had the same maybe we wouldn't have had the same intuition about it yeah so you're intuition about it yeah so you're intuition about it yeah so you're knowledge about moving through the world knowledge about moving through the world knowledge about moving through the world is not made explicit to you is not made explicit to you is not made explicit to you so you just that's why it's art and it so you just that's why it's art and it so you just that's why it's art and it might yeah it might be hard to actually might yeah it might be hard to actually might yeah it might be hard to actually articulate exactly you know there's articulate exactly you know there's articulate exactly you know there's something about something about something about um and being a competitive uh athlete um and being a competitive uh athlete um and being a competitive uh athlete there's something about there's something about there's something about seeing a movement you know a coach one seeing a movement you know a coach one seeing a movement you know a coach one of their greatest strengths a coach has of their greatest strengths a coach has of their greatest strengths a coach has is being able to see you know some is being able to see you know some is being able to see you know some little change in what the athlete is little change in what the athlete is little change in what the athlete is doing and then being able to articulate doing and then being able to articulate doing and then being able to articulate that to the athlete you know and then that to the athlete you know and then that to the athlete you know and then maybe even trying to say and you should maybe even trying to say and you should maybe even trying to say and you should try to feel this try to feel this try to feel this um so there's something just in scene um so there's something just in scene um so there's something just in scene and again you know sometimes it's hard and again you know sometimes it's hard and again you know sometimes it's hard to articulate what it is you're seeing to articulate what it is you're seeing to articulate what it is you're seeing but there's a but there's a but there's a receiving the motion at a rate that is receiving the motion at a rate that is receiving the motion at a rate that is again sometimes hard to put into words again sometimes hard to put into words again sometimes hard to put into words yeah I yeah I yeah I Wonder Wonder Wonder how it is possible to achieve sort of how it is possible to achieve sort of how it is possible to achieve sort of truly elegant movement you have a movie truly elegant movement you have a movie truly elegant movement you have a movie like ex machina I'm not sure if you've like ex machina I'm not sure if you've like ex machina I'm not sure if you've seen it but the main actress in that who seen it but the main actress in that who seen it but the main actress in that who plays the AI robot I think is a plays the AI robot I think is a plays the AI robot I think is a ballerina I mean just a natural ballerina I mean just a natural ballerina I mean just a natural elegance and the I don't know eloquence elegance and the I don't know eloquence elegance and the I don't know eloquence of movement of movement of movement it's it's it looks efficient and easy it's it's it looks efficient and easy it's it's it looks efficient and easy and just it looks right and just it looks right and just it looks right it looks it looks right is sort of the it looks it looks right is sort of the it looks it looks right is sort of the key yeah and then you you look at uh

key yeah and then you you look at uh key yeah and then you you look at uh especially early robots I mean they especially early robots I mean they especially early robots I mean they they're so cautious in in the way they they're so cautious in in the way they they're so cautious in in the way they move that move that move that it's not it's not the caution that looks it's not it's not the caution that looks it's not it's not the caution that looks wrong it's it's something about the wrong it's it's something about the wrong it's it's something about the movement that looks wrong that feels movement that looks wrong that feels movement that looks wrong that feels like it's very inefficient unnecessarily like it's very inefficient unnecessarily like it's very inefficient unnecessarily so and it's hard to put that into words so and it's hard to put that into words so and it's hard to put that into words exactly we think that and part of the exactly we think that and part of the exactly we think that and part of the reason why people are attracted to the reason why people are attracted to the reason why people are attracted to the machines we build machines we build machines we build is because the inherent dynamics of is because the inherent dynamics of is because the inherent dynamics of movement are are closer to right movement are are closer to right movement are are closer to right um because we we try to use you know um because we we try to use you know um because we we try to use you know walking Gates or we build a machine walking Gates or we build a machine walking Gates or we build a machine around this gate where you're trying to around this gate where you're trying to around this gate where you're trying to work with the Dynamics of the machine work with the Dynamics of the machine work with the Dynamics of the machine instead of instead of instead of to stop them you know some of the early to stop them you know some of the early to stop them you know some of the early walking machines walking machines walking machines you know you're essentially you're you know you're essentially you're you know you're essentially you're really trying hard to not let them fall really trying hard to not let them fall really trying hard to not let them fall over and so you're always stopping the over and so you're always stopping the over and so you're always stopping the Tipping motion you know Tipping motion you know Tipping motion you know and sort of the insight and sort of the insight and sort of the insight of dynamic stability and a lighted of dynamic stability and a lighted of dynamic stability and a lighted machine is to go with it you know let machine is to go with it you know let machine is to go with it you know let the Tipping happen you know let yourself the Tipping happen you know let yourself the Tipping happen you know let yourself fall but then catch her catch yourself fall but then catch her catch yourself fall but then catch her catch yourself with that next foot and there's with that next foot and there's with that next foot and there's something about getting those physics to something about getting those physics to something about getting those physics to be expressed in the machine be expressed in the machine be expressed in the machine that people interpret as that people interpret as that people interpret as lifelike or or elegant or just natural lifelike or or elegant or just natural lifelike or or elegant or just natural looking and so I think if you get the looking and so I think if you get the looking and so I think if you get the physics right physics right physics right it also ends up being more efficient it also ends up being more efficient it also ends up being more efficient likely likely likely there's a benefit that it probably ends there's a benefit that it probably ends there's a benefit that it probably ends up being up being up being more stable in the long run you know it

more stable in the long run you know it more stable in the long run you know it could it could walk stably over a wider could it could walk stably over a wider could it could walk stably over a wider uh rain range of conditions uh rain range of conditions uh rain range of conditions and it's uh and it's more beautiful and and it's uh and it's more beautiful and and it's uh and it's more beautiful and attractive at the same time so how hard attractive at the same time so how hard attractive at the same time so how hard is it to get the humanoid robot Atlas is it to get the humanoid robot Atlas is it to get the humanoid robot Atlas to do some of the things that's recently to do some of the things that's recently to do some of the things that's recently been doing let's forget the flips and been doing let's forget the flips and been doing let's forget the flips and all of that let's just look at the all of that let's just look at the all of that let's just look at the running running running maybe you can correct me but there's maybe you can correct me but there's maybe you can correct me but there's something about running I mean that's something about running I mean that's something about running I mean that's not careful at all that's you're falling not careful at all that's you're falling not careful at all that's you're falling forward forward forward you're jumping forward and they're you're jumping forward and they're you're jumping forward and they're falling so how hard is it to get that falling so how hard is it to get that falling so how hard is it to get that right our first humanoid we needed to right our first humanoid we needed to right our first humanoid we needed to deliver natural looking walking you know deliver natural looking walking you know deliver natural looking walking you know we took a contract uh from the army they we took a contract uh from the army they we took a contract uh from the army they wanted a robot that could walk naturally wanted a robot that could walk naturally wanted a robot that could walk naturally they wanted to put a suit on the robot they wanted to put a suit on the robot they wanted to put a suit on the robot and be able to test it in a gas and be able to test it in a gas and be able to test it in a gas environment and so they wanted that the environment and so they wanted that the environment and so they wanted that the motion to be natural motion to be natural motion to be natural and so our goal was a natural looking and so our goal was a natural looking and so our goal was a natural looking gate it was real it was surprisingly gate it was real it was surprisingly gate it was real it was surprisingly hard to get that to work hard to get that to work hard to get that to work and we but we did build an early machine and we but we did build an early machine and we but we did build an early machine we called it pet man prototype it was we called it pet man prototype it was we called it pet man prototype it was the Prototype before the Pac-Man robot the Prototype before the Pac-Man robot the Prototype before the Pac-Man robot and it had a really nice looking and it had a really nice looking and it had a really nice looking gate where you know it would stick the gate where you know it would stick the gate where you know it would stick the leg out it would do heel strike first leg out it would do heel strike first leg out it would do heel strike first before it rolled onto the toe so you before it rolled onto the toe so you before it rolled onto the toe so you didn't land with a flat foot you didn't land with a flat foot you didn't land with a flat foot you extended your leg a little bit extended your leg a little bit extended your leg a little bit but even then it was hard to get the but even then it was hard to get the but even then it was hard to get the robot to walk where when you're walking robot to walk where when you're walking robot to walk where when you're walking that it fully extended its leg and that it fully extended its leg and that it fully extended its leg and essentially landed on an extended leg

essentially landed on an extended leg essentially landed on an extended leg and if you watch closely how you walk and if you watch closely how you walk and if you watch closely how you walk you probably land on an extended leg but you probably land on an extended leg but you probably land on an extended leg but then you immediately flex your knee as then you immediately flex your knee as then you immediately flex your knee as you start to make that contact you start to make that contact you start to make that contact and getting that all to work well and getting that all to work well and getting that all to work well took such a long time in fact I I took such a long time in fact I I took such a long time in fact I I probably didn't really see the nice probably didn't really see the nice probably didn't really see the nice natural walking that I expected out of natural walking that I expected out of natural walking that I expected out of our humanoids until maybe last year our humanoids until maybe last year our humanoids until maybe last year and the team was developing on our newer and the team was developing on our newer and the team was developing on our newer generation of Atlas you know some new generation of Atlas you know some new generation of Atlas you know some new techniques techniques techniques um uh for developing a walking control um uh for developing a walking control um uh for developing a walking control algorithm and they got that natural algorithm and they got that natural algorithm and they got that natural looking motion as sort of a byproduct of looking motion as sort of a byproduct of looking motion as sort of a byproduct of a just a different process they were a just a different process they were a just a different process they were applying to developing the control applying to developing the control applying to developing the control so that probably took 15 years 10 to 15 so that probably took 15 years 10 to 15 so that probably took 15 years 10 to 15 years to sort of get that from from you years to sort of get that from from you years to sort of get that from from you know the Petman prototype was probably know the Petman prototype was probably know the Petman prototype was probably in 2008 and what was it 2022 last year in 2008 and what was it 2022 last year in 2008 and what was it 2022 last year that I think I saw a good walking on that I think I saw a good walking on that I think I saw a good walking on Atlas if you could just like Linger on Atlas if you could just like Linger on Atlas if you could just like Linger on it what are some challenges of getting it what are some challenges of getting it what are some challenges of getting good walking so is it uh good walking so is it uh good walking so is it uh is this is this partially like a is this is this partially like a is this is this partially like a hardware like actuator problem is it the hardware like actuator problem is it the hardware like actuator problem is it the control is it the artistic element of control is it the artistic element of control is it the artistic element of just observing the whole system just observing the whole system just observing the whole system operating in different conditions operating in different conditions operating in different conditions together I mean is there some kind of together I mean is there some kind of together I mean is there some kind of interesting interesting interesting quirks or challenges you can speak to quirks or challenges you can speak to quirks or challenges you can speak to like the heel strike yeah so one of the like the heel strike yeah so one of the like the heel strike yeah so one of the things that makes the like this straight things that makes the like this straight things that makes the like this straight leg uh a challenge is you're sort of up leg uh a challenge is you're sort of up leg uh a challenge is you're sort of up against a singularity a mathematical

against a singularity a mathematical against a singularity a mathematical single Singularity where you know when single Singularity where you know when single Singularity where you know when your leg is fully extended it can't go your leg is fully extended it can't go your leg is fully extended it can't go further the other direction right further the other direction right further the other direction right there's only you can only move in One there's only you can only move in One there's only you can only move in One Direction and that makes all of the Direction and that makes all of the Direction and that makes all of the calculations around how to produce calculations around how to produce calculations around how to produce twerks at that joint or positions makes twerks at that joint or positions makes twerks at that joint or positions makes it more complicated and so having all it more complicated and so having all it more complicated and so having all the mathematics so it can deal with the mathematics so it can deal with the mathematics so it can deal with these singular configurations is one of these singular configurations is one of these singular configurations is one of many challenges uh that we face and I'd many challenges uh that we face and I'd many challenges uh that we face and I'd say in in the say in in the say in in the you know in those earlier days again we you know in those earlier days again we you know in those earlier days again we were working with these really were working with these really were working with these really simplified models simplified models simplified models so we're trying to boil all the physics so we're trying to boil all the physics so we're trying to boil all the physics of the complex human body into a simpler of the complex human body into a simpler of the complex human body into a simpler subsystem that we can more easily subsystem that we can more easily subsystem that we can more easily describe in mathematics and sometimes describe in mathematics and sometimes describe in mathematics and sometimes those simpler subsystems don't have all those simpler subsystems don't have all those simpler subsystems don't have all of that complexity of the straight leg of that complexity of the straight leg of that complexity of the straight leg built into them and so what's happened built into them and so what's happened built into them and so what's happened more recently is we're able to apply more recently is we're able to apply more recently is we're able to apply techniques that let us take the full techniques that let us take the full techniques that let us take the full physics of the robot into account and physics of the robot into account and physics of the robot into account and and deal with some of those strange and deal with some of those strange and deal with some of those strange situations like this like the straight situations like this like the straight situations like this like the straight leg so is there a fundamental challenge leg so is there a fundamental challenge leg so is there a fundamental challenge here that it's uh maybe you can correct here that it's uh maybe you can correct here that it's uh maybe you can correct me but is it under actuated are you me but is it under actuated are you me but is it under actuated are you falling under actuated is the right word falling under actuated is the right word falling under actuated is the right word right you can't you can't uh push the right you can't you can't uh push the right you can't you can't uh push the robot in any direction you want to right robot in any direction you want to right robot in any direction you want to right and so that that is one of the hard and so that that is one of the hard and so that that is one of the hard problems of of uh like at Locomotion and problems of of uh like at Locomotion and problems of of uh like at Locomotion and you have to do that for natural movement you have to do that for natural movement you have to do that for natural movement it's not necessarily required for

it's not necessarily required for it's not necessarily required for natural movement it's just required natural movement it's just required natural movement it's just required you know we don't have you know a you know we don't have you know a you know we don't have you know a gravity force that you can hook yourself gravity force that you can hook yourself gravity force that you can hook yourself onto to apply uh an external force in onto to apply uh an external force in onto to apply uh an external force in the direction you want at all times the direction you want at all times the direction you want at all times right the only the only external forces right the only the only external forces right the only the only external forces are being mediated through your feet and are being mediated through your feet and are being mediated through your feet and how they get mediated depend on how you how they get mediated depend on how you how they get mediated depend on how you place your feet and uh you know you place your feet and uh you know you place your feet and uh you know you can't just uh you know God's hand can't can't just uh you know God's hand can't can't just uh you know God's hand can't reach down and give and push in any reach down and give and push in any reach down and give and push in any direction you want you know so is there direction you want you know so is there direction you want you know so is there uh is there some extra challenge to the uh is there some extra challenge to the uh is there some extra challenge to the fact that Alice is such a big robot fact that Alice is such a big robot fact that Alice is such a big robot there is the humanoid form is um there is the humanoid form is um there is the humanoid form is um attractive in many ways but it's also a attractive in many ways but it's also a attractive in many ways but it's also a challenge in many ways challenge in many ways challenge in many ways um um um you have this big upper body that has a you have this big upper body that has a you have this big upper body that has a lot of mass and inertia lot of mass and inertia lot of mass and inertia um and throwing that inertia around um and throwing that inertia around um and throwing that inertia around increases the complexity of maintaining increases the complexity of maintaining increases the complexity of maintaining balance and as soon as you pick up balance and as soon as you pick up balance and as soon as you pick up something heavy in your arms you've made something heavy in your arms you've made something heavy in your arms you've made that problem even harder that problem even harder that problem even harder and so uh in the early work in the leg and so uh in the early work in the leg and so uh in the early work in the leg lab and in the early days at the company lab and in the early days at the company lab and in the early days at the company and we were pursuing these quadruped and we were pursuing these quadruped and we were pursuing these quadruped robots which had a a kind of built-in robots which had a a kind of built-in robots which had a a kind of built-in simplification you had this big rigid simplification you had this big rigid simplification you had this big rigid body and then really light legs so when body and then really light legs so when body and then really light legs so when you swing the legs you swing the legs you swing the legs the leg motion didn't impact the body the leg motion didn't impact the body the leg motion didn't impact the body motion very much motion very much motion very much all the mass and inertia was in the body all the mass and inertia was in the body all the mass and inertia was in the body but when you have the humanoid that but when you have the humanoid that but when you have the humanoid that doesn't work you have big heavy legs you doesn't work you have big heavy legs you doesn't work you have big heavy legs you swing the legs it affects everything swing the legs it affects everything swing the legs it affects everything else else else and so and so and so dealing with all of that interaction

dealing with all of that interaction dealing with all of that interaction does make the humanoid a much more does make the humanoid a much more does make the humanoid a much more complicated platform complicated platform complicated platform and I also saw that at least recently and I also saw that at least recently and I also saw that at least recently you've been doing more explicit modeling you've been doing more explicit modeling you've been doing more explicit modeling of the stuff you pick up yeah which is of the stuff you pick up yeah which is of the stuff you pick up yeah which is very real very real very real um really interesting so you have to um really interesting so you have to um really interesting so you have to what model the shape what model the shape what model the shape the weight distribution the weight distribution the weight distribution [Music] [Music] [Music] I don't know what like you have to under I don't know what like you have to under I don't know what like you have to under like include that as part of the like include that as part of the like include that as part of the modeling as part of the planning because modeling as part of the planning because modeling as part of the planning because okay so for people who don't know okay so for people who don't know okay so for people who don't know uh so Atlas at least in like a recent uh so Atlas at least in like a recent uh so Atlas at least in like a recent video like throws a heavy bag throws a video like throws a heavy bag throws a video like throws a heavy bag throws a bunch of stuff bunch of stuff bunch of stuff so what what's involved in uh picking up so what what's involved in uh picking up so what what's involved in uh picking up a thing a heavy thing a thing a heavy thing a thing a heavy thing uh and when that thing is a bunch of uh and when that thing is a bunch of uh and when that thing is a bunch of different non-standard things I think it different non-standard things I think it different non-standard things I think it also picked up like a barbell also picked up like a barbell also picked up like a barbell and to be able to throw in some cases and to be able to throw in some cases and to be able to throw in some cases what are some interesting challenges what are some interesting challenges what are some interesting challenges there there there so we were definitely trying to show so we were definitely trying to show so we were definitely trying to show that the robot and the techniques were that the robot and the techniques were that the robot and the techniques were applying to the robe uh to Atlas let us applying to the robe uh to Atlas let us applying to the robe uh to Atlas let us deal with heavy things in the world deal with heavy things in the world deal with heavy things in the world because if the robot's going to be because if the robot's going to be because if the robot's going to be useful it's actually got to move stuff useful it's actually got to move stuff useful it's actually got to move stuff around yeah and that and that needs to around yeah and that and that needs to around yeah and that and that needs to be significant stuff that's an be significant stuff that's an be significant stuff that's an appreciable portion of the the body appreciable portion of the the body appreciable portion of the the body weight of the robot weight of the robot weight of the robot and we also think this differentiates us and we also think this differentiates us and we also think this differentiates us from the other humanoid robot activities from the other humanoid robot activities from the other humanoid robot activities that you're seeing out there mostly that you're seeing out there mostly that you're seeing out there mostly they're not picking stuff up yet they're not picking stuff up yet they're not picking stuff up yet and not heavy stuff anyway and not heavy stuff anyway and not heavy stuff anyway um but just like you or me you know you um but just like you or me you know you um but just like you or me you know you need to anticipate that moment you know need to anticipate that moment you know need to anticipate that moment you know you're reaching out to pick something up

you're reaching out to pick something up you're reaching out to pick something up and as soon as you pick it up your and as soon as you pick it up your and as soon as you pick it up your center of mass is going to shift center of mass is going to shift center of mass is going to shift and if you're gonna you know turn in a and if you're gonna you know turn in a and if you're gonna you know turn in a circle you have to take that inertia circle you have to take that inertia circle you have to take that inertia into account and if you're gonna throw a into account and if you're gonna throw a into account and if you're gonna throw a thing you know you've got all of that thing you know you've got all of that thing you know you've got all of that has to be sort of included in in the has to be sort of included in in the has to be sort of included in in the model of what you're trying to do so the model of what you're trying to do so the model of what you're trying to do so the robot needs to have some idea or robot needs to have some idea or robot needs to have some idea or expectation of what that weight is and expectation of what that weight is and expectation of what that weight is and then and sort of predict you know think then and sort of predict you know think then and sort of predict you know think a couple of seconds ahead how do I a couple of seconds ahead how do I a couple of seconds ahead how do I manage my now my my body plus this big manage my now my my body plus this big manage my now my my body plus this big heavy thing together to get and and heavy thing together to get and and heavy thing together to get and and still maintain balance right and so um I still maintain balance right and so um I still maintain balance right and so um I I uh that's a big change for us and I I uh that's a big change for us and I I uh that's a big change for us and I think the tools we've built are really think the tools we've built are really think the tools we've built are really allowing that to happen allowing that to happen allowing that to happen um quickly now some of those motions um quickly now some of those motions um quickly now some of those motions that you saw in that most recent video that you saw in that most recent video that you saw in that most recent video we were able to create in a matter of we were able to create in a matter of we were able to create in a matter of days it used to be it took six months to days it used to be it took six months to days it used to be it took six months to do anything new you know on your robot do anything new you know on your robot do anything new you know on your robot and and now we're starting to develop and and now we're starting to develop and and now we're starting to develop the tools that let us do that in a the tools that let us do that in a the tools that let us do that in a matter of days and so we think that's matter of days and so we think that's matter of days and so we think that's really exciting it means that the really exciting it means that the really exciting it means that the ability to create new behaviors for the ability to create new behaviors for the ability to create new behaviors for the robot is going to be um robot is going to be um robot is going to be um a quicker process so being able to a quicker process so being able to a quicker process so being able to explicitly model explicitly model explicitly model new things that it might need to pick up new things that it might need to pick up new things that it might need to pick up new type of thing and you know to some new type of thing and you know to some new type of thing and you know to some degree you don't you don't want to have degree you don't you don't want to have degree you don't you don't want to have to pay too much attention to each to pay too much attention to each to pay too much attention to each specific thing right specific thing right specific thing right um there's sort of a generalization here um there's sort of a generalization here um there's sort of a generalization here yeah yeah yeah um obviously when you grab a thing you um obviously when you grab a thing you um obviously when you grab a thing you have to conform your your hand your end have to conform your your hand your end have to conform your your hand your end effector to the surface of that shape

effector to the surface of that shape effector to the surface of that shape but once it's in your hands it's but once it's in your hands it's but once it's in your hands it's probably just the mass and inertia that probably just the mass and inertia that probably just the mass and inertia that matter and the the shape may not be as matter and the the shape may not be as matter and the the shape may not be as important yeah and so you know for some important yeah and so you know for some important yeah and so you know for some in some ways you want to pay attention in some ways you want to pay attention in some ways you want to pay attention to that detailed shape and in others you to that detailed shape and in others you to that detailed shape and in others you want to generalize it and say uh well want to generalize it and say uh well want to generalize it and say uh well all I really care about is the center of all I really care about is the center of all I really care about is the center of mass of this thing especially if I'm mass of this thing especially if I'm mass of this thing especially if I'm going to throw it up on that scaffolding going to throw it up on that scaffolding going to throw it up on that scaffolding and it's easier if the body is rigid and it's easier if the body is rigid and it's easier if the body is rigid what if it's there's some doesn't it what if it's there's some doesn't it what if it's there's some doesn't it throw like a sandbag type thing that throw like a sandbag type thing that throw like a sandbag type thing that tool bag you know you've had loose had tool bag you know you've had loose had tool bag you know you've had loose had loose stuff in it yeah so it it managed loose stuff in it yeah so it it managed loose stuff in it yeah so it it managed that there are harder things that we that there are harder things that we that there are harder things that we haven't done yet you know we could have haven't done yet you know we could have haven't done yet you know we could have had a big jointed thing or I don't know had a big jointed thing or I don't know had a big jointed thing or I don't know a bunch of loose wire or rope what about a bunch of loose wire or rope what about a bunch of loose wire or rope what about carrying another robot how about that yeah we haven't we haven't done that yet yeah we haven't we haven't done that yet I guess we did a little bit of uh we did I guess we did a little bit of uh we did I guess we did a little bit of uh we did a a little skit around Christmas where a a little skit around Christmas where a a little skit around Christmas where we had two spots holding up another spot we had two spots holding up another spot we had two spots holding up another spot that was trying to put you know a bow on that was trying to put you know a bow on that was trying to put you know a bow on a tree so I guess we're doing that in a a tree so I guess we're doing that in a a tree so I guess we're doing that in a small way small way small way okay that's pretty good uh let me ask okay that's pretty good uh let me ask okay that's pretty good uh let me ask the all-important question uh do you the all-important question uh do you the all-important question uh do you know how much Atlas can curl goodbye know how much Atlas can curl goodbye know how much Atlas can curl goodbye have you have you have you I mean you know this for us humans I mean you know this for us humans I mean you know this for us humans that's really one of the most that's really one of the most that's really one of the most fundamental questions you can ask fundamental questions you can ask fundamental questions you can ask another human being a bench it probably another human being a bench it probably another human being a bench it probably can't curl as much as we can yet but a can't curl as much as we can yet but a can't curl as much as we can yet but a metric that I think is interesting is um metric that I think is interesting is um metric that I think is interesting is um you know another way of looking at that you know another way of looking at that you know another way of looking at that strength strength strength is you know the box jump so if how high

is you know the box jump so if how high is you know the box jump so if how high of a box can you jump onto question and of a box can you jump onto question and of a box can you jump onto question and uh Alice I don't know the exact height uh Alice I don't know the exact height uh Alice I don't know the exact height it was probably a meter high or it was probably a meter high or it was probably a meter high or something like that it was a pretty something like that it was a pretty something like that it was a pretty pretty tall jump that Atlas was able to pretty tall jump that Atlas was able to pretty tall jump that Atlas was able to manage when we last tried to do this and manage when we last tried to do this and manage when we last tried to do this and and I have video of my chief technical and I have video of my chief technical and I have video of my chief technical officer officer officer doing the same jump and he really doing the same jump and he really doing the same jump and he really struggled you know the human but the struggled you know the human but the struggled you know the human but the human getting all the way on top of this human getting all the way on top of this human getting all the way on top of this box but then you know Atlas was able to box but then you know Atlas was able to box but then you know Atlas was able to do it do it do it um we're now thinking about the next um we're now thinking about the next um we're now thinking about the next generation of Atlas and we're probably generation of Atlas and we're probably generation of Atlas and we're probably going to be in the realm of a person going to be in the realm of a person going to be in the realm of a person can't do it you know with this with the can't do it you know with this with the can't do it you know with this with the Next Generation you know the robots the Next Generation you know the robots the Next Generation you know the robots the actuators are going to get stronger actuators are going to get stronger actuators are going to get stronger where there really is the case that at where there really is the case that at where there really is the case that at least some of these joints some of these least some of these joints some of these least some of these joints some of these motions will be stronger and to motions will be stronger and to motions will be stronger and to understand how high it can jump you understand how high it can jump you understand how high it can jump you probably had to do quite a bit of probably had to do quite a bit of probably had to do quite a bit of testing oh yeah and there's lots of testing oh yeah and there's lots of testing oh yeah and there's lots of videos of it trying and failing and videos of it trying and failing and videos of it trying and failing and that's you know that's all you know we that's you know that's all you know we that's you know that's all you know we don't always release those those videos don't always release those those videos don't always release those those videos but they're a lot of fun to look at but they're a lot of fun to look at but they're a lot of fun to look at uh so we'll talk a little bit about that uh so we'll talk a little bit about that uh so we'll talk a little bit about that uh but if can you talk to the jumping uh but if can you talk to the jumping uh but if can you talk to the jumping because you talked about the walking it because you talked about the walking it because you talked about the walking it took a long time many many years to get took a long time many many years to get took a long time many many years to get the walking to be natural but there's the walking to be natural but there's the walking to be natural but there's also really natural looking also really natural looking also really natural looking uh robust resilient jumping how hard is uh robust resilient jumping how hard is uh robust resilient jumping how hard is it to do the jumping it to do the jumping it to do the jumping well again this stuff has really evolved well again this stuff has really evolved well again this stuff has really evolved rapidly in the last few years you know rapidly in the last few years you know rapidly in the last few years you know the first time we did a somersault the first time we did a somersault the first time we did a somersault um you know there's a lot of kind of um you know there's a lot of kind of um you know there's a lot of kind of manual iteration manual iteration manual iteration what is the trajectory you know how hard what is the trajectory you know how hard what is the trajectory you know how hard do you throw it in fact in these early

do you throw it in fact in these early do you throw it in fact in these early days uh I actually would when I'd see days uh I actually would when I'd see days uh I actually would when I'd see early experiments that the team was early experiments that the team was early experiments that the team was doing I might make suggestions about how doing I might make suggestions about how doing I might make suggestions about how to change the technique again kind of to change the technique again kind of to change the technique again kind of borrowing from my own intuition about borrowing from my own intuition about borrowing from my own intuition about how backflips work how backflips work how backflips work um um um but frankly they don't need that anymore but frankly they don't need that anymore but frankly they don't need that anymore so in the early days you had to iterate so in the early days you had to iterate so in the early days you had to iterate kind of in almost a manual way trying to kind of in almost a manual way trying to kind of in almost a manual way trying to change these trajectories of the arms or change these trajectories of the arms or change these trajectories of the arms or the legs to try to get you know a the legs to try to get you know a the legs to try to get you know a successful backflip to happen successful backflip to happen successful backflip to happen but more recently we're running but more recently we're running but more recently we're running these model predictive uh control these model predictive uh control these model predictive uh control techniques where we're able to the robot techniques where we're able to the robot techniques where we're able to the robot essentially can think in advance for the essentially can think in advance for the essentially can think in advance for the next second or two about how its motion next second or two about how its motion next second or two about how its motion is going to transpire and you can you is going to transpire and you can you is going to transpire and you can you know solve for optimal trajectories to know solve for optimal trajectories to know solve for optimal trajectories to get from A to B so this is happening in get from A to B so this is happening in get from A to B so this is happening in a much more natural way and we're really a much more natural way and we're really a much more natural way and we're really seeing an acceleration happen in the seeing an acceleration happen in the seeing an acceleration happen in the development of these behaviors again development of these behaviors again development of these behaviors again partly due to these partly due to these partly due to these optimization techniques uh sometimes optimization techniques uh sometimes optimization techniques uh sometimes learning techniques learning techniques learning techniques so it's there's it's hard in that so it's there's it's hard in that so it's there's it's hard in that there's a lot of mathematics in behind there's a lot of mathematics in behind there's a lot of mathematics in behind it but we're figuring that out so you it but we're figuring that out so you it but we're figuring that out so you can do model predictive control for can do model predictive control for can do model predictive control for uh I mean I don't even understand what uh I mean I don't even understand what uh I mean I don't even understand what that looks like when the entire robot is that looks like when the entire robot is that looks like when the entire robot is in the air flying and doing a back yeah in the air flying and doing a back yeah in the air flying and doing a back yeah I mean but but that's the cool part I mean but but that's the cool part I mean but but that's the cool part right so you know yeah you know the

right so you know yeah you know the right so you know yeah you know the physics we we can calculate physics physics we we can calculate physics physics we we can calculate physics pretty well using you know Newton's laws pretty well using you know Newton's laws pretty well using you know Newton's laws about how it's going to evolve over time about how it's going to evolve over time about how it's going to evolve over time and the road you know this this the sick and the road you know this this the sick and the road you know this this the sick trick which was a front somersault with trick which was a front somersault with trick which was a front somersault with a half twist is a good example right a half twist is a good example right a half twist is a good example right you saw the robot on various versions of you saw the robot on various versions of you saw the robot on various versions of that trick I've seen it land in that trick I've seen it land in that trick I've seen it land in different configurations and it still different configurations and it still different configurations and it still manages to stabilize itself and so you manages to stabilize itself and so you manages to stabilize itself and so you know what this model predictive control know what this model predictive control know what this model predictive control means is again the in real time the means is again the in real time the means is again the in real time the robot is projecting ahead you know a robot is projecting ahead you know a robot is projecting ahead you know a second into the future and sort of second into the future and sort of second into the future and sort of exploring options and if I if I move my exploring options and if I if I move my exploring options and if I if I move my arm a little bit more this way how is arm a little bit more this way how is arm a little bit more this way how is that going to affect the outcome and so that going to affect the outcome and so that going to affect the outcome and so it can do these calculations many of it can do these calculations many of it can do these calculations many of them you know uh and and basically solve them you know uh and and basically solve them you know uh and and basically solve for you know given where I am now maybe for you know given where I am now maybe for you know given where I am now maybe I took off a little bit screwy from how I took off a little bit screwy from how I took off a little bit screwy from how I had planned I can adjust so you're I had planned I can adjust so you're I had planned I can adjust so you're adjusting in there just on the fly so adjusting in there just on the fly so adjusting in there just on the fly so the the model predictive control lets the the model predictive control lets the the model predictive control lets you adjust on the Fly you adjust on the Fly you adjust on the Fly and of course I think this is what you and of course I think this is what you and of course I think this is what you know people adapt as well we when when know people adapt as well we when when know people adapt as well we when when we do it even a gymnastics trick we try we do it even a gymnastics trick we try we do it even a gymnastics trick we try to set it up so it's as close to the to set it up so it's as close to the to set it up so it's as close to the same every time but we figured out how same every time but we figured out how same every time but we figured out how to do some adjustment on the Fly and now to do some adjustment on the Fly and now to do some adjustment on the Fly and now we're starting to figure out that the we're starting to figure out that the we're starting to figure out that the robots can do this adjustment on the fly robots can do this adjustment on the fly robots can do this adjustment on the fly as well using these techniques in the as well using these techniques in the as well using these techniques in the air air air and so I mean it just feels from a and so I mean it just feels from a and so I mean it just feels from a robotics perspective just surreal well robotics perspective just surreal well robotics perspective just surreal well that's sort of the you talked about that's sort of the you talked about that's sort of the you talked about under actuated right so when you're when under actuated right so when you're when under actuated right so when you're when you're in the air there's something

you're in the air there's something you're in the air there's something there's some things you can't change there's some things you can't change there's some things you can't change right you can't change the momentum right you can't change the momentum right you can't change the momentum while it's in the air because you can't while it's in the air because you can't while it's in the air because you can't apply an external force or Torque and so apply an external force or Torque and so apply an external force or Torque and so the momentum isn't going to change so the momentum isn't going to change so the momentum isn't going to change so how do you work within the constraint of how do you work within the constraint of how do you work within the constraint of that fixed momentum to still get from A that fixed momentum to still get from A that fixed momentum to still get from A to B where you want to be that's really to B where you want to be that's really to B where you want to be that's really unfortunate unfortunate unfortunate you're in the air I mean you become a you're in the air I mean you become a you're in the air I mean you become a drone for a brief moment of time no drone for a brief moment of time no drone for a brief moment of time no you're not even a drone because you you're not even a drone because you you're not even a drone because you can't can't ever you can't hover you're can't can't ever you can't hover you're can't can't ever you can't hover you're gonna you're gonna impact soon be ready gonna you're gonna impact soon be ready gonna you're gonna impact soon be ready yeah are you considered like a hover yeah are you considered like a hover yeah are you considered like a hover type thing or no no it's too much weight type thing or no no it's too much weight type thing or no no it's too much weight I mean it's just it's just incredible uh I mean it's just it's just incredible uh I mean it's just it's just incredible uh and just even to have the guts to try and just even to have the guts to try and just even to have the guts to try backflip with such a large body backflip with such a large body backflip with such a large body that's wild but like uh we definitely that's wild but like uh we definitely that's wild but like uh we definitely broke a few robots trying but that but broke a few robots trying but that but broke a few robots trying but that but that's where the build it break it fix that's where the build it break it fix that's where the build it break it fix it you know uh strategy comes in you it you know uh strategy comes in you it you know uh strategy comes in you gotta be willing to break and what ends gotta be willing to break and what ends gotta be willing to break and what ends up happening is you end up by breaking up happening is you end up by breaking up happening is you end up by breaking the robot repeatedly you find the weak the robot repeatedly you find the weak the robot repeatedly you find the weak points and then you end up redesigning points and then you end up redesigning points and then you end up redesigning it so it doesn't break so easily next it so it doesn't break so easily next it so it doesn't break so easily next time you know through the breaking time you know through the breaking time you know through the breaking process you learn a lot like a lot of process you learn a lot like a lot of process you learn a lot like a lot of lessons and you keep improving not just lessons and you keep improving not just lessons and you keep improving not just how to make the backflip work but how to make the backflip work but how to make the backflip work but everything and how to build the machine everything and how to build the machine everything and how to build the machine better yeah yeah better yeah yeah better yeah yeah I mean is there something about just the I mean is there something about just the I mean is there something about just the guts that guts that guts that come up with an idea of saying you know come up with an idea of saying you know come up with an idea of saying you know what let's try to make it do a backflip what let's try to make it do a backflip what let's try to make it do a backflip well I think the courage to do a well I think the courage to do a well I think the courage to do a backflip in the first place and and to backflip in the first place and and to backflip in the first place and and to not worry too much about the ridicule of not worry too much about the ridicule of not worry too much about the ridicule of somebody saying why the heck are you

somebody saying why the heck are you somebody saying why the heck are you doing backflips with robots because a doing backflips with robots because a doing backflips with robots because a lot of people have asked that you know lot of people have asked that you know lot of people have asked that you know why why why are you doing this why go to why why why are you doing this why go to why why why are you doing this why go to the moon in this decade and do the other the moon in this decade and do the other the moon in this decade and do the other things JFK things JFK things JFK [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] it's not because it's easy because it's it's not because it's easy because it's it's not because it's easy because it's hard yeah exactly don't ask questions okay so the uh the don't ask questions okay so the uh the jumping I mean it's just there's a lot jumping I mean it's just there's a lot jumping I mean it's just there's a lot of incredible stuff if we can just of incredible stuff if we can just of incredible stuff if we can just rewind a little bit to uh the DARPA rewind a little bit to uh the DARPA rewind a little bit to uh the DARPA robotics challenge in 2015 I think which robotics challenge in 2015 I think which robotics challenge in 2015 I think which was for people who are familiar with the was for people who are familiar with the was for people who are familiar with the DARPA challenges DARPA challenges DARPA challenges it uh was first with autonomous vehicles it uh was first with autonomous vehicles it uh was first with autonomous vehicles and there's a lot of interesting and there's a lot of interesting and there's a lot of interesting challenges around that and the DARPA challenges around that and the DARPA challenges around that and the DARPA robotics challenge is when uh humanoid robotics challenge is when uh humanoid robotics challenge is when uh humanoid robots were tasked to do all kinds of robots were tasked to do all kinds of robots were tasked to do all kinds of uh you know manipulation walking driving uh you know manipulation walking driving uh you know manipulation walking driving your car all these kinds of challenges your car all these kinds of challenges your car all these kinds of challenges with if I remember correctly sort of with if I remember correctly sort of with if I remember correctly sort of some slight capability to communicate some slight capability to communicate some slight capability to communicate with humans but the communication was with humans but the communication was with humans but the communication was very poor so it basically has to be very poor so it basically has to be very poor so it basically has to be almost entirely autonomous you can have almost entirely autonomous you can have almost entirely autonomous you can have periods where the communication was periods where the communication was periods where the communication was entirely interrupted and the robot had entirely interrupted and the robot had entirely interrupted and the robot had to be able to proceed yeah but you could to be able to proceed yeah but you could to be able to proceed yeah but you could provide some high level guidance to the provide some high level guidance to the provide some high level guidance to the robot basically load low bandwidth robot basically load low bandwidth robot basically load low bandwidth Communications to steer it I watched Communications to steer it I watched Communications to steer it I watched that challenge with kind of tears in my that challenge with kind of tears in my that challenge with kind of tears in my eyes eating popcorn but I wasn't personally losing uh you

but I wasn't personally losing uh you know hundreds of thousands millions of know hundreds of thousands millions of know hundreds of thousands millions of dollars and many years of incredible dollars and many years of incredible dollars and many years of incredible hard work by some of the most brilliant hard work by some of the most brilliant hard work by some of the most brilliant roboticists in the world so that was why roboticists in the world so that was why roboticists in the world so that was why the tragic that's why tears came so the tragic that's why tears came so the tragic that's why tears came so anyway what what have you uh just anyway what what have you uh just anyway what what have you uh just looking back to that time what have you looking back to that time what have you looking back to that time what have you learned from that experience learned from that experience learned from that experience I mean maybe if you could describe what I mean maybe if you could describe what I mean maybe if you could describe what it was uh sort of the setup for people it was uh sort of the setup for people it was uh sort of the setup for people who haven't seen it well so there was a who haven't seen it well so there was a who haven't seen it well so there was a contest where a bunch of different contest where a bunch of different contest where a bunch of different um robots were asked to do a series of um robots were asked to do a series of um robots were asked to do a series of tasks uh some of those that you tasks uh some of those that you tasks uh some of those that you mentioned drive a vehicle get out open a mentioned drive a vehicle get out open a mentioned drive a vehicle get out open a door go identify a vowel shutter valve door go identify a vowel shutter valve door go identify a vowel shutter valve use a tool to maybe cut a hole in use a tool to maybe cut a hole in use a tool to maybe cut a hole in um um um a surface and then crawl over some a surface and then crawl over some a surface and then crawl over some stairs and maybe some rough Terrain stairs and maybe some rough Terrain stairs and maybe some rough Terrain so it was so it was so it was the idea was have a general purpose the idea was have a general purpose the idea was have a general purpose robot that could do lots of different robot that could do lots of different robot that could do lots of different things things things um it had to be mobility and um it had to be mobility and um it had to be mobility and manipulation on board perception manipulation on board perception manipulation on board perception and there was a contest which DARPA and there was a contest which DARPA and there was a contest which DARPA likes at the time was running sort of likes at the time was running sort of likes at the time was running sort of follow on to the follow on to the follow on to the the Grand Challenge which was let's the Grand Challenge which was let's the Grand Challenge which was let's let's try to push vehicle autonomy along let's try to push vehicle autonomy along let's try to push vehicle autonomy along right they they encourage people to right they they encourage people to right they they encourage people to build autonomous cars so they're trying build autonomous cars so they're trying build autonomous cars so they're trying to basically push an industry forward to basically push an industry forward to basically push an industry forward and and and um um um uh we were asked our role in this was to uh we were asked our role in this was to uh we were asked our role in this was to build build build um a humanoid at the time it was our um a humanoid at the time it was our um a humanoid at the time it was our sort of first generation Atlas robot

sort of first generation Atlas robot sort of first generation Atlas robot and we built maybe 10 of them I don't and we built maybe 10 of them I don't and we built maybe 10 of them I don't remember the exact number remember the exact number remember the exact number and DARPA distributed those to various and DARPA distributed those to various and DARPA distributed those to various teams teams teams um that sort of won a contest showed um that sort of won a contest showed um that sort of won a contest showed that they could you know program these that they could you know program these that they could you know program these robots and then use them to compete robots and then use them to compete robots and then use them to compete against each other and then other robots against each other and then other robots against each other and then other robots were introduced as well some teams built were introduced as well some teams built were introduced as well some teams built their own robots Carnegie their own robots Carnegie their own robots Carnegie um melon for example built their own um melon for example built their own um melon for example built their own robot and uh and all these robots robot and uh and all these robots robot and uh and all these robots competed to see who could sort of get competed to see who could sort of get competed to see who could sort of get through this this maze or the fastest through this this maze or the fastest through this this maze or the fastest and again I think the purpose was to and again I think the purpose was to and again I think the purpose was to kind of push the whole industry forward kind of push the whole industry forward kind of push the whole industry forward we provided the robot and some baseline we provided the robot and some baseline we provided the robot and some baseline software but we didn't we didn't software but we didn't we didn't software but we didn't we didn't actually compete as a participant uh actually compete as a participant uh actually compete as a participant uh where we were trying to uh you know where we were trying to uh you know where we were trying to uh you know Drive the robot through this maze we Drive the robot through this maze we Drive the robot through this maze we were just trying to support the other were just trying to support the other were just trying to support the other teams teams teams it was humbling because it was it was it was humbling because it was it was it was humbling because it was it was really a hard task and honestly the really a hard task and honestly the really a hard task and honestly the robots the tears were because mostly the robots the tears were because mostly the robots the tears were because mostly the robots didn't do it you know they fell robots didn't do it you know they fell robots didn't do it you know they fell down down down you know repeatedly you know repeatedly you know repeatedly um it was hard to get through this um it was hard to get through this um it was hard to get through this contest uh some did and and you know contest uh some did and and you know contest uh some did and and you know they were rewarded and won they were rewarded and won they were rewarded and won but it was humbling because of just how but it was humbling because of just how but it was humbling because of just how hard these tasks weren't all that hard a hard these tasks weren't all that hard a hard these tasks weren't all that hard a person could have done it very easily person could have done it very easily person could have done it very easily but it was really hard to get the robots but it was really hard to get the robots but it was really hard to get the robots to do it you know the general nature of to do it you know the general nature of to do it you know the general nature of it the variety of it the variety and it the variety of it the variety and it the variety of it the variety and also that I don't know if the tasks were

sort of the task in themselves help us sort of the task in themselves help us understand what is difficult and what is understand what is difficult and what is understand what is difficult and what is not I don't know if that was obvious not I don't know if that was obvious not I don't know if that was obvious before the contest was designed so you before the contest was designed so you before the contest was designed so you kind of tried to figure that out and I kind of tried to figure that out and I kind of tried to figure that out and I think Atlas is really a general robot think Atlas is really a general robot think Atlas is really a general robot platform and it's perhaps not best platform and it's perhaps not best platform and it's perhaps not best suited for the specific tasks of that suited for the specific tasks of that suited for the specific tasks of that contest like for just for example contest like for just for example contest like for just for example probably the hardest task is not the probably the hardest task is not the probably the hardest task is not the driving of the car but getting in and driving of the car but getting in and driving of the car but getting in and out of the car and Atlas probably you out of the car and Atlas probably you out of the car and Atlas probably you know if you were to design a robot that know if you were to design a robot that know if you were to design a robot that can get into the car easily and get out can get into the car easily and get out can get into the car easily and get out easily you probably would not make Atlas easily you probably would not make Atlas easily you probably would not make Atlas that particular car yeah the robot was a that particular car yeah the robot was a that particular car yeah the robot was a little bit big to get in and out of that little bit big to get in and out of that little bit big to get in and out of that car right it doesn't fit yeah this is car right it doesn't fit yeah this is car right it doesn't fit yeah this is the curse of a general purpose robot the curse of a general purpose robot the curse of a general purpose robot that they're not perfect at any one that they're not perfect at any one that they're not perfect at any one thing thing thing but they might be able to do a wide but they might be able to do a wide but they might be able to do a wide variety of things and and that is variety of things and and that is variety of things and and that is that is the goal at the end of the day that is the goal at the end of the day that is the goal at the end of the day you know I think we all want to build you know I think we all want to build you know I think we all want to build general purpose robots that can be used general purpose robots that can be used general purpose robots that can be used for lots of different activities for lots of different activities for lots of different activities but it's hard and but it's hard and but it's hard and um and the wisdom in in building um and the wisdom in in building um and the wisdom in in building successful robots up until this point successful robots up until this point successful robots up until this point have been go build a robot for a have been go build a robot for a have been go build a robot for a specific task and it'll do it very well specific task and it'll do it very well specific task and it'll do it very well and as long as you control that and as long as you control that and as long as you control that environment it'll operate perfectly but environment it'll operate perfectly but environment it'll operate perfectly but but robots need to be able to deal with but robots need to be able to deal with but robots need to be able to deal with uncertainty if they're going to be uncertainty if they're going to be uncertainty if they're going to be useful to us in the future useful to us in the future useful to us in the future they need to be able to deal with they need to be able to deal with they need to be able to deal with unexpected uh situations and that's sort unexpected uh situations and that's sort unexpected uh situations and that's sort of the goal of a general purpose or

of the goal of a general purpose or of the goal of a general purpose or multi-purpose robot multi-purpose robot multi-purpose robot and that's just darn hard and so some of and that's just darn hard and so some of and that's just darn hard and so some of you know there's these curious little you know there's these curious little you know there's these curious little failures like I remember one of the a failures like I remember one of the a failures like I remember one of the a robot you know the first the first time robot you know the first the first time robot you know the first the first time you start to try to push on the world you start to try to push on the world you start to try to push on the world with a robot you you forget that the with a robot you you forget that the with a robot you you forget that the world pushes back and and will push you world pushes back and and will push you world pushes back and and will push you over if you're not ready for it and the over if you're not ready for it and the over if you're not ready for it and the robot you know reached to grab the door robot you know reached to grab the door robot you know reached to grab the door handle I think it missed the grasp of handle I think it missed the grasp of handle I think it missed the grasp of the door handle was expecting that its the door handle was expecting that its the door handle was expecting that its hand was on the door handle and so when hand was on the door handle and so when hand was on the door handle and so when it tried to turn the knob it just threw it tried to turn the knob it just threw it tried to turn the knob it just threw itself over it didn't realize oh I had itself over it didn't realize oh I had itself over it didn't realize oh I had missed the door handle I didn't have I missed the door handle I didn't have I missed the door handle I didn't have I didn't I was expecting a force back from didn't I was expecting a force back from didn't I was expecting a force back from the door it wasn't there and then I lost the door it wasn't there and then I lost the door it wasn't there and then I lost my balance so these little simple things my balance so these little simple things my balance so these little simple things that you and I would take totally for that you and I would take totally for that you and I would take totally for granted and deal with the robots don't granted and deal with the robots don't granted and deal with the robots don't know how to deal with yet and so you know how to deal with yet and so you know how to deal with yet and so you have to start to deal with all of those have to start to deal with all of those have to start to deal with all of those uh circumstances well I think a lot of uh circumstances well I think a lot of uh circumstances well I think a lot of us experience this in uh even when sober us experience this in uh even when sober us experience this in uh even when sober but drunk too uh sort of you pick up a but drunk too uh sort of you pick up a but drunk too uh sort of you pick up a thing and expect it to be thing and expect it to be thing and expect it to be what is it heavy and it turns out to be what is it heavy and it turns out to be what is it heavy and it turns out to be light yeah oh yeah and then so the same light yeah oh yeah and then so the same light yeah oh yeah and then so the same and I'm sure if your depth perception and I'm sure if your depth perception and I'm sure if your depth perception for whatever reason is screwed up if for whatever reason is screwed up if for whatever reason is screwed up if you're if you're drunk or some other you're if you're drunk or some other you're if you're drunk or some other reason and then you think you're putting reason and then you think you're putting reason and then you think you're putting your hand on the table and you miss it I your hand on the table and you miss it I your hand on the table and you miss it I mean it's the same kind of situation mean it's the same kind of situation mean it's the same kind of situation yeah but yeah but yeah but there's why you need to be able to there's why you need to be able to there's why you need to be able to predict forward just a little bit and so predict forward just a little bit and so predict forward just a little bit and so that's where this model predictive that's where this model predictive that's where this model predictive control stuff comes in predict forward

control stuff comes in predict forward control stuff comes in predict forward what you think is going to happen what you think is going to happen what you think is going to happen and then if and if that does happen and then if and if that does happen and then if and if that does happen you're in good shape if something else you're in good shape if something else you're in good shape if something else happens you better start predicting happens you better start predicting happens you better start predicting again so if we like we re-uh regenerate again so if we like we re-uh regenerate again so if we like we re-uh regenerate a plan yeah when you don't I mean that a plan yeah when you don't I mean that a plan yeah when you don't I mean that um that also requires a very uh fast um that also requires a very uh fast um that also requires a very uh fast feedback loop of updating feedback loop of updating feedback loop of updating what your prediction how it matches to what your prediction how it matches to what your prediction how it matches to the actual real world the actual real world the actual real world yeah those things have to run pretty yeah those things have to run pretty yeah those things have to run pretty quickly what's the challenge of running quickly what's the challenge of running quickly what's the challenge of running things pretty quickly a thousand Hertz things pretty quickly a thousand Hertz things pretty quickly a thousand Hertz of acting and sensing of acting and sensing of acting and sensing quickly you know there's a few different quickly you know there's a few different quickly you know there's a few different layers of that you you want at the layers of that you you want at the layers of that you you want at the lowest level you like to run things lowest level you like to run things lowest level you like to run things typically at around a thousand Hertz typically at around a thousand Hertz typically at around a thousand Hertz which means that you know at each joint which means that you know at each joint which means that you know at each joint of the robot you're measuring position of the robot you're measuring position of the robot you're measuring position or force and then trying to control your or force and then trying to control your or force and then trying to control your actuator whether it's a hydraulic or actuator whether it's a hydraulic or actuator whether it's a hydraulic or electric motor trying to control the electric motor trying to control the electric motor trying to control the force coming out of that actuator and force coming out of that actuator and force coming out of that actuator and you want to do that really fast you want to do that really fast you want to do that really fast something like a thousand Hertz and that something like a thousand Hertz and that something like a thousand Hertz and that means you can't have too much means you can't have too much means you can't have too much calculation going on at that joint calculation going on at that joint calculation going on at that joint um but that's pretty manageable these um but that's pretty manageable these um but that's pretty manageable these days and it's fairly common days and it's fairly common days and it's fairly common and then there's another layer that and then there's another layer that and then there's another layer that you're probably calculating you know you're probably calculating you know you're probably calculating you know maybe at 100 Hertz maybe 10 times slower maybe at 100 Hertz maybe 10 times slower maybe at 100 Hertz maybe 10 times slower which is now starting to look at the which is now starting to look at the which is now starting to look at the overall body motion and thinking about overall body motion and thinking about overall body motion and thinking about the the larger physics of of the uh of the the larger physics of of the uh of the the larger physics of of the uh of the robot the robot the robot um and then there's yet another loop um and then there's yet another loop um and then there's yet another loop that's probably happening a little bit that's probably happening a little bit that's probably happening a little bit slower which is where you start to bring

slower which is where you start to bring slower which is where you start to bring you know your perception and your vision you know your perception and your vision you know your perception and your vision and things like that and so you need to and things like that and so you need to and things like that and so you need to run all of these Loops sort of run all of these Loops sort of run all of these Loops sort of simultaneously you do have to manage simultaneously you do have to manage simultaneously you do have to manage your your computer time so that you can your your computer time so that you can your your computer time so that you can squeeze in all the calculations you need squeeze in all the calculations you need squeeze in all the calculations you need in real time in a very consistent way in real time in a very consistent way in real time in a very consistent way and the amount of calculation we can do and the amount of calculation we can do and the amount of calculation we can do is increasing as computers get better is increasing as computers get better is increasing as computers get better which means we can start to do more which means we can start to do more which means we can start to do more sophisticated calculations I can have a sophisticated calculations I can have a sophisticated calculations I can have a more complex model more complex model more complex model doing my forward prediction doing my forward prediction doing my forward prediction and and that might allow me to do even and and that might allow me to do even and and that might allow me to do even better predictions as I as I get better better predictions as I as I get better better predictions as I as I get better and better and and it used to be again and better and and it used to be again and better and and it used to be again we had we had we had you know 10 years ago you know 10 years ago you know 10 years ago we had to have pretty simple models we had to have pretty simple models we had to have pretty simple models that we were running you know at those that we were running you know at those that we were running you know at those fast rates because the computers weren't fast rates because the computers weren't fast rates because the computers weren't as capable about calculating forward as capable about calculating forward as capable about calculating forward with a sophisticated model but as as with a sophisticated model but as as with a sophisticated model but as as computation gets better we can we can do computation gets better we can we can do computation gets better we can we can do more of that what about the actual more of that what about the actual more of that what about the actual pipeline of software engineering how pipeline of software engineering how pipeline of software engineering how easy it is to keep updating Atlas like easy it is to keep updating Atlas like easy it is to keep updating Atlas like Duke continuous development on it so how Duke continuous development on it so how Duke continuous development on it so how many computers many computers many computers are on there is there a nice pipeline are on there is there a nice pipeline are on there is there a nice pipeline it's an important part of building a it's an important part of building a it's an important part of building a team around it which means you know you team around it which means you know you team around it which means you know you need to also have a software tools need to also have a software tools need to also have a software tools simulation tools you know so simulation tools you know so simulation tools you know so um we have always made strong use of um we have always made strong use of um we have always made strong use of physics-based simulation tools to do uh

physics-based simulation tools to do uh physics-based simulation tools to do uh some of this calculation basically some of this calculation basically some of this calculation basically tested in simulation before you put it tested in simulation before you put it tested in simulation before you put it on the robot but you also want the same on the robot but you also want the same on the robot but you also want the same code that you're running in simulation code that you're running in simulation code that you're running in simulation to be the same code you're running on to be the same code you're running on to be the same code you're running on the hardware and so even getting to the the hardware and so even getting to the the hardware and so even getting to the point where it was the same code going point where it was the same code going point where it was the same code going from one to the other from one to the other from one to the other we probably didn't really get that we probably didn't really get that we probably didn't really get that working until you know a few years working until you know a few years working until you know a few years several years ago several years ago several years ago um but that was a you know that was a um but that was a you know that was a um but that was a you know that was a bit of a milestone and so you want to bit of a milestone and so you want to bit of a milestone and so you want to work certainly work these pipelines so work certainly work these pipelines so work certainly work these pipelines so that you can make it as easy as possible that you can make it as easy as possible that you can make it as easy as possible and have a bunch of people working in and have a bunch of people working in and have a bunch of people working in parallel especially when you know we parallel especially when you know we parallel especially when you know we only have you know four of the atlas only have you know four of the atlas only have you know four of the atlas robots the modern Atlas robots at the robots the modern Atlas robots at the robots the modern Atlas robots at the company company company and you know we probably have you know and you know we probably have you know and you know we probably have you know 40 developers there all trying to gain 40 developers there all trying to gain 40 developers there all trying to gain access to it and so you need to share access to it and so you need to share access to it and so you need to share resources and use some of these uh some resources and use some of these uh some resources and use some of these uh some of the software pipeline well that's a of the software pipeline well that's a of the software pipeline well that's a really exciting step to be able to run really exciting step to be able to run really exciting step to be able to run the exact same code and simulation as on the exact same code and simulation as on the exact same code and simulation as on the actual robot uh how hard is it to do uh realistic simulation physics-based uh realistic simulation physics-based simulation of of Atlas such that I mean simulation of of Atlas such that I mean simulation of of Atlas such that I mean the dream is like if it works in the dream is like if it works in the dream is like if it works in simulation works perfectly in reality simulation works perfectly in reality simulation works perfectly in reality how hard is it to sort of keep workout how hard is it to sort of keep workout how hard is it to sort of keep workout closing that Gap the root of some of our closing that Gap the root of some of our closing that Gap the root of some of our physics-based simulation tools really physics-based simulation tools really physics-based simulation tools really started at MIT and started at MIT and started at MIT and um we built some some good physics-based um we built some some good physics-based um we built some some good physics-based modeling tools there modeling tools there modeling tools there the early days of the company we were the early days of the company we were the early days of the company we were trying to develop those tools as a trying to develop those tools as a trying to develop those tools as a commercial product so we continued to commercial product so we continued to commercial product so we continued to develop them it wasn't a particularly

develop them it wasn't a particularly develop them it wasn't a particularly successful commercial product but we successful commercial product but we successful commercial product but we ended up with some nice physics-based ended up with some nice physics-based ended up with some nice physics-based simulation tools so that when we started simulation tools so that when we started simulation tools so that when we started doing legged robotics again we had a doing legged robotics again we had a doing legged robotics again we had a really nice tool to work with really nice tool to work with really nice tool to work with and the things we paid attention to were and the things we paid attention to were and the things we paid attention to were were things that weren't necessarily were things that weren't necessarily were things that weren't necessarily handled very well in the commercial handled very well in the commercial handled very well in the commercial tools you could buy off the shelf like tools you could buy off the shelf like tools you could buy off the shelf like like interaction with the world like like interaction with the world like like interaction with the world like foot ground contact so trying to model foot ground contact so trying to model foot ground contact so trying to model those contact those contact those contact um events well um events well um events well in a way that captured the important in a way that captured the important in a way that captured the important parts of the interaction parts of the interaction parts of the interaction was a really important element uh to get was a really important element uh to get was a really important element uh to get right and to also do in a way that was right and to also do in a way that was right and to also do in a way that was computationally feasible computationally feasible computationally feasible and could run fast because if you if and could run fast because if you if and could run fast because if you if your simulation runs too slow you know your simulation runs too slow you know your simulation runs too slow you know then your developers are sitting around then your developers are sitting around then your developers are sitting around waiting for stuff to run and compile so waiting for stuff to run and compile so waiting for stuff to run and compile so it's always about efficient uh a fast it's always about efficient uh a fast it's always about efficient uh a fast operation as well so that's been a big operation as well so that's been a big operation as well so that's been a big part of it you know I think developing part of it you know I think developing part of it you know I think developing those tools in parallel to the those tools in parallel to the those tools in parallel to the development of the the platform and development of the the platform and development of the the platform and trying to scale them has has really been trying to scale them has has really been trying to scale them has has really been essential I'd say to us being able to essential I'd say to us being able to essential I'd say to us being able to assemble a team of people that could do assemble a team of people that could do assemble a team of people that could do this yeah how to simulate contact this yeah how to simulate contact this yeah how to simulate contact periods so flick ground contact but sort periods so flick ground contact but sort periods so flick ground contact but sort of for manipulation of for manipulation of for manipulation because don't you want to model all because don't you want to model all because don't you want to model all kinds of surfaces yeah so it will be kinds of surfaces yeah so it will be kinds of surfaces yeah so it will be even more complex with manipulation even more complex with manipulation even more complex with manipulation because there's a lot more going on you because there's a lot more going on you because there's a lot more going on you know and you need to capture I don't know and you need to capture I don't know and you need to capture I don't know things slipping and moving you know

know things slipping and moving you know know things slipping and moving you know in in your in your hand in in your in your hand in in your in your hand um it's a level of complexity that I um it's a level of complexity that I um it's a level of complexity that I think goes above foot ground contact think goes above foot ground contact think goes above foot ground contact when you really start doing dexterous when you really start doing dexterous when you really start doing dexterous manipulation so there's challenges ahead manipulation so there's challenges ahead manipulation so there's challenges ahead still so how far are we away from me still so how far are we away from me still so how far are we away from me being able to walk with Atlas in the being able to walk with Atlas in the being able to walk with Atlas in the sand along the beach and sand along the beach and sand along the beach and us both drinking a beer us both drinking a beer us both drinking a beer yeah maybe we can out of a kid maybe yeah maybe we can out of a kid maybe yeah maybe we can out of a kid maybe Atlas could spill his beer because he's Atlas could spill his beer because he's Atlas could spill his beer because he's got nowhere to put it got nowhere to put it got nowhere to put it Alice could walk on the sand uh so can Alice could walk on the sand uh so can Alice could walk on the sand uh so can it yeah uh yeah I mean you know have we it yeah uh yeah I mean you know have we it yeah uh yeah I mean you know have we really had him out on the beach you know really had him out on the beach you know really had him out on the beach you know we take them outside often you know we take them outside often you know we take them outside often you know rocks Hills that sort of thing even just rocks Hills that sort of thing even just rocks Hills that sort of thing even just around our lab in Waltham we probably around our lab in Waltham we probably around our lab in Waltham we probably haven't been on the sand but I'm a salt haven't been on the sand but I'm a salt haven't been on the sand but I'm a salt surface I don't doubt that we could deal surface I don't doubt that we could deal surface I don't doubt that we could deal with it yeah we we might have to spend a with it yeah we we might have to spend a with it yeah we we might have to spend a little bit of time to sort of make that little bit of time to sort of make that little bit of time to sort of make that work but we did take uh we we had a had work but we did take uh we we had a had work but we did take uh we we had a had to take to take to take big dog to Thailand years ago and uh we big dog to Thailand years ago and uh we big dog to Thailand years ago and uh we did this great video of the robot did this great video of the robot did this great video of the robot walking in the sand walking into the walking in the sand walking into the walking in the sand walking into the ocean up to I don't know its belly or ocean up to I don't know its belly or ocean up to I don't know its belly or something like that and then turning something like that and then turning something like that and then turning around and walking out all while playing around and walking out all while playing around and walking out all while playing some cool beach music yeah great show some cool beach music yeah great show some cool beach music yeah great show but then you know we didn't really clean but then you know we didn't really clean but then you know we didn't really clean the robot off and the salt water was the robot off and the salt water was the robot off and the salt water was really hard on it so you know we put it really hard on it so you know we put it really hard on it so you know we put it in a box shipped it back by the time it in a box shipped it back by the time it in a box shipped it back by the time it came back we had some problems with salt came back we had some problems with salt came back we had some problems with salt it's the salt water it's not like old

it's the salt water it's not like old it's the salt water it's not like old stuff it's not like sand getting into stuff it's not like sand getting into stuff it's not like sand getting into the components or something like this the components or something like this the components or something like this but I'm sure if if this is a big but I'm sure if if this is a big but I'm sure if if this is a big priority you can make it like waterproof priority you can make it like waterproof priority you can make it like waterproof right that just wasn't our our goal at right that just wasn't our our goal at right that just wasn't our our goal at the time well it's a personal goal of the time well it's a personal goal of the time well it's a personal goal of mine to it walk along the beach but it's mine to it walk along the beach but it's mine to it walk along the beach but it's a human problem too you get sand a human problem too you get sand a human problem too you get sand everywhere it's it's just a jam mess everywhere it's it's just a jam mess everywhere it's it's just a jam mess so soft surfaces are okay so I mean can so soft surfaces are okay so I mean can so soft surfaces are okay so I mean can we just uh link on the the robotics we just uh link on the the robotics we just uh link on the the robotics challenge there's a there's a pile of uh challenge there's a there's a pile of uh challenge there's a there's a pile of uh like Rubble they had to walk over is like Rubble they had to walk over is like Rubble they had to walk over is that's that's that's um how difficult is that task um how difficult is that task um how difficult is that task in the early days of developing big dog in the early days of developing big dog in the early days of developing big dog the loose Rock was the epitome of the the loose Rock was the epitome of the the loose Rock was the epitome of the hard walking surface because you step hard walking surface because you step hard walking surface because you step down and then the Rock and you had these down and then the Rock and you had these down and then the Rock and you had these little Point feet on the robot little Point feet on the robot little Point feet on the robot and the rock and roll and and you have and the rock and roll and and you have and the rock and roll and and you have to deal with that last minute you know to deal with that last minute you know to deal with that last minute you know change in your foot placement yes so you change in your foot placement yes so you change in your foot placement yes so you you step on the thing and that thing you step on the thing and that thing you step on the thing and that thing responds to you stepping on it yeah and responds to you stepping on it yeah and responds to you stepping on it yeah and and it moves where your point of support and it moves where your point of support and it moves where your point of support is and so it's really that that became is and so it's really that that became is and so it's really that that became kind of the essence of the test and so kind of the essence of the test and so kind of the essence of the test and so that was the beginning of us starting to that was the beginning of us starting to that was the beginning of us starting to build Rock piles in our parking lots and build Rock piles in our parking lots and build Rock piles in our parking lots and and we would actually build boxes full and we would actually build boxes full and we would actually build boxes full of rocks and bring them into the lab and of rocks and bring them into the lab and of rocks and bring them into the lab and then we would have the robots walking then we would have the robots walking then we would have the robots walking across these boxes of rocks because that across these boxes of rocks because that across these boxes of rocks because that became the essential test became the essential test became the essential test so you mentioned big dog can you can we so you mentioned big dog can you can we so you mentioned big dog can you can we maybe take a stroll through the history maybe take a stroll through the history maybe take a stroll through the history of Boston Dynamics uh so what and who's

of Boston Dynamics uh so what and who's of Boston Dynamics uh so what and who's Big Dog by the way is who Big Dog by the way is who Big Dog by the way is who do you try not to anthropomorphize the do you try not to anthropomorphize the do you try not to anthropomorphize the robots do you try not to robots do you try not to robots do you try not to to try to remember that they're this is to try to remember that they're this is to try to remember that they're this is like the division I have because I for like the division I have because I for like the division I have because I for me it's impossible me it's impossible me it's impossible for me there's a magic to the to the for me there's a magic to the to the for me there's a magic to the to the being that is a robot it is not human being that is a robot it is not human being that is a robot it is not human but it is but it is but it is the same Magic the same Magic the same Magic uh the living being has when it moves uh the living being has when it moves uh the living being has when it moves about the world is there in the robot so about the world is there in the robot so about the world is there in the robot so um I don't know what question I'm asking um I don't know what question I'm asking um I don't know what question I'm asking but uh should I say what or who I guess but uh should I say what or who I guess but uh should I say what or who I guess who is Big Dog what is big dog who is Big Dog what is big dog who is Big Dog what is big dog well I'll say to address the medic well I'll say to address the medic well I'll say to address the medic question question question we don't try to draw hard lines around we don't try to draw hard lines around we don't try to draw hard lines around it being an it or a him or a her it being an it or a him or a her it being an it or a him or a her um it's okay right people I think part um it's okay right people I think part um it's okay right people I think part of the magic of these kinds of machines of the magic of these kinds of machines of the magic of these kinds of machines is by nature of their organic movement is by nature of their organic movement is by nature of their organic movement of the of their Dynamics of the of their Dynamics of the of their Dynamics we tend to want to identify with them we we tend to want to identify with them we we tend to want to identify with them we tend to look at them and sort of tend to look at them and sort of tend to look at them and sort of attribute attribute attribute maybe feeling to that because we've only maybe feeling to that because we've only maybe feeling to that because we've only seen things that move like this that seen things that move like this that seen things that move like this that were alive were alive were alive and so and so and so um this is an opportunity it means that um this is an opportunity it means that um this is an opportunity it means that you could have you could have you could have feelings for a machine and you know feelings for a machine and you know feelings for a machine and you know people have feelings for their cars you people have feelings for their cars you people have feelings for their cars you know they get attracted to them attached know they get attracted to them attached know they get attracted to them attached to them so that's inherently could be a to them so that's inherently could be a to them so that's inherently could be a good thing as long as we manage what good thing as long as we manage what good thing as long as we manage what that interaction is

that interaction is that interaction is so we don't put strong boundaries around so we don't put strong boundaries around so we don't put strong boundaries around this and ultimately think it's a benefit this and ultimately think it's a benefit this and ultimately think it's a benefit but it's also can be a bit of a curse but it's also can be a bit of a curse but it's also can be a bit of a curse because I think people look at these because I think people look at these because I think people look at these machines machines machines and they attribute a level of and they attribute a level of and they attribute a level of intelligence that the machines don't intelligence that the machines don't intelligence that the machines don't have why because again they've seen have why because again they've seen have why because again they've seen things move like this that we're living things move like this that we're living things move like this that we're living beings beings beings which are intelligent which are intelligent which are intelligent and so they want to attribute and so they want to attribute and so they want to attribute intelligence to the robots that isn't intelligence to the robots that isn't intelligence to the robots that isn't appropriate yet even though they move appropriate yet even though they move appropriate yet even though they move like an intelligent being but you try to like an intelligent being but you try to like an intelligent being but you try to acknowledge that the acknowledge that the acknowledge that the anthropomorphization is there and try to anthropomorphization is there and try to anthropomorphization is there and try to first of all acknowledge that it's there first of all acknowledge that it's there first of all acknowledge that it's there and have a little fun with it you know and have a little fun with it you know and have a little fun with it you know our most recent video our most recent video our most recent video it's just kind of fun you know to to it's just kind of fun you know to to it's just kind of fun you know to to look at the robot we started off the the look at the robot we started off the the look at the robot we started off the the video with Atlas video with Atlas video with Atlas um kind of looking around for where the um kind of looking around for where the um kind of looking around for where the bag of tools was because the guy up on bag of tools was because the guy up on bag of tools was because the guy up on the scaffolding says send me some tools the scaffolding says send me some tools the scaffolding says send me some tools Atlas has to kind of look around and see Atlas has to kind of look around and see Atlas has to kind of look around and see where they are and there's a little where they are and there's a little where they are and there's a little personality there that is fun it's personality there that is fun it's personality there that is fun it's entertaining it makes our jobs entertaining it makes our jobs entertaining it makes our jobs interesting and I think in the long run interesting and I think in the long run interesting and I think in the long run can enhance interaction between humans can enhance interaction between humans can enhance interaction between humans and robots that in a way that isn't and robots that in a way that isn't and robots that in a way that isn't available to machines that don't move available to machines that don't move available to machines that don't move that way this is something to me that way this is something to me that way this is something to me personally is very interesting I've been personally is very interesting I've been personally is very interesting I've been um um um I happen to have a lot of legged robots I happen to have a lot of legged robots I happen to have a lot of legged robots I hope uh to have a lot of spots in my I hope uh to have a lot of spots in my I hope uh to have a lot of spots in my possession

possession possession um I'm interested in celebrating um I'm interested in celebrating um I'm interested in celebrating Robotics and celebrating companies and I Robotics and celebrating companies and I Robotics and celebrating companies and I also don't want to companies that do also don't want to companies that do also don't want to companies that do incredible stuff like Boston Dynamics incredible stuff like Boston Dynamics incredible stuff like Boston Dynamics and I there's a and I there's a and I there's a you know I'm a little crazy and you say you know I'm a little crazy and you say you know I'm a little crazy and you say you don't want to you you want to align you don't want to you you want to align you don't want to you you want to align you want to help the company because I you want to help the company because I you want to help the company because I ultimately want a company that busted an ultimately want a company that busted an ultimately want a company that busted an image to succeed and part of that will image to succeed and part of that will image to succeed and part of that will talk about you know success kind of talk about you know success kind of talk about you know success kind of requires making money requires making money requires making money and so the kind of stuff I'm and so the kind of stuff I'm and so the kind of stuff I'm particularly interested in may not be particularly interested in may not be particularly interested in may not be the thing that makes money in the short the thing that makes money in the short the thing that makes money in the short term I can make an argument they will in term I can make an argument they will in term I can make an argument they will in the long term but the kind of stuff I've the long term but the kind of stuff I've the long term but the kind of stuff I've been playing with is a robust way of uh been playing with is a robust way of uh been playing with is a robust way of uh having the quadruped though the robot having the quadruped though the robot having the quadruped though the robot dogs communicate emotion with their body dogs communicate emotion with their body dogs communicate emotion with their body movement the same kind of stuff you do movement the same kind of stuff you do movement the same kind of stuff you do with it with a dog but not not with it with a dog but not not with it with a dog but not not hard-coded uh but in a robust way and be hard-coded uh but in a robust way and be hard-coded uh but in a robust way and be able to communicate excitement or fear able to communicate excitement or fear able to communicate excitement or fear boredom all this kind of stuff and I boredom all this kind of stuff and I boredom all this kind of stuff and I think as a base layer think as a base layer think as a base layer of function of behavior to add on top of of function of behavior to add on top of of function of behavior to add on top of a robot I think that's a really powerful a robot I think that's a really powerful a robot I think that's a really powerful way uh to make the robot more usable for way uh to make the robot more usable for way uh to make the robot more usable for humans for whatever application it's humans for whatever application it's humans for whatever application it's going to be really important and um it's going to be really important and um it's going to be really important and um it's a thing we're we're beginning to pay a thing we're we're beginning to pay a thing we're we're beginning to pay attention to attention to attention to um we really want to start a um we really want to start a um we really want to start a differentiator for the company has differentiator for the company has differentiator for the company has always been we really want the robot to always been we really want the robot to always been we really want the robot to work we want it to be useful uh work we want it to be useful uh work we want it to be useful uh making it work at first meant the the

making it work at first meant the the making it work at first meant the the legged Locomotion really works it can legged Locomotion really works it can legged Locomotion really works it can really get around and it doesn't fall really get around and it doesn't fall really get around and it doesn't fall down and down and down and um but beyond that and now it needs to um but beyond that and now it needs to um but beyond that and now it needs to be a useful tool and our customers are be a useful tool and our customers are be a useful tool and our customers are for example Factory owners people who for example Factory owners people who for example Factory owners people who are running a process manufacturing are running a process manufacturing are running a process manufacturing facility and the robot needs to be able facility and the robot needs to be able facility and the robot needs to be able to get through this complex facility in to get through this complex facility in to get through this complex facility in a reliable way you know taking taking a reliable way you know taking taking a reliable way you know taking taking measurements measurements measurements we need for people who are operating we need for people who are operating we need for people who are operating those robots to understand what the those robots to understand what the those robots to understand what the robots are doing robots are doing robots are doing if the robot gets into needs help or or if the robot gets into needs help or or if the robot gets into needs help or or you know is in trouble or something it you know is in trouble or something it you know is in trouble or something it needs to be able to communicate needs to be able to communicate needs to be able to communicate and a physical indication of some sort and a physical indication of some sort and a physical indication of some sort uh to so that a person looked at the uh to so that a person looked at the uh to so that a person looked at the robot and goes oh I know what that's robot and goes oh I know what that's robot and goes oh I know what that's that robot's doing the robot's going to that robot's doing the robot's going to that robot's doing the robot's going to go take measurements of my vacuum pump go take measurements of my vacuum pump go take measurements of my vacuum pump with its thermal camera with its thermal camera with its thermal camera you know you want to be able to indicate you know you want to be able to indicate you know you want to be able to indicate that and or even just the robots that and or even just the robots that and or even just the robots um about to turn you know in front of um about to turn you know in front of um about to turn you know in front of you and maybe indicate that it's going you and maybe indicate that it's going you and maybe indicate that it's going to turn and so you sort of see and can to turn and so you sort of see and can to turn and so you sort of see and can anticipate its motion so these this kind anticipate its motion so these this kind anticipate its motion so these this kind of communication is going to become more of communication is going to become more of communication is going to become more and more important it wasn't sort of our and more important it wasn't sort of our and more important it wasn't sort of our starting point starting point starting point um you know but now the the robots are um you know but now the the robots are um you know but now the the robots are really out in the world and you know we really out in the world and you know we really out in the world and you know we have about a thousand of them out with have about a thousand of them out with have about a thousand of them out with with customers right now with customers right now with customers right now this layer of physical indication I this layer of physical indication I this layer of physical indication I think is going to become more and more think is going to become more and more think is going to become more and more important we'll talk about where it goes

important we'll talk about where it goes important we'll talk about where it goes because there's a lot of interesting because there's a lot of interesting because there's a lot of interesting possibilities but if you can return back possibilities but if you can return back possibilities but if you can return back to the origins of Boston and Dynamics to the origins of Boston and Dynamics to the origins of Boston and Dynamics with so that the more research the r d with so that the more research the r d with so that the more research the r d side before we talk about how to build side before we talk about how to build side before we talk about how to build robots at scale so big dog so um who's robots at scale so big dog so um who's robots at scale so big dog so um who's Big Dog so the company started in 1992. Big Dog so the company started in 1992. Big Dog so the company started in 1992. and in um probably uh uh 2003 and in um probably uh uh 2003 and in um probably uh uh 2003 I believe is when we uh took a contract I believe is when we uh took a contract I believe is when we uh took a contract from darpto basically 10 years 11 years from darpto basically 10 years 11 years from darpto basically 10 years 11 years um we weren't doing robotics we did a um we weren't doing robotics we did a um we weren't doing robotics we did a little bit of Robotics with Sony they little bit of Robotics with Sony they little bit of Robotics with Sony they had uh IBO the their IBO robot we were had uh IBO the their IBO robot we were had uh IBO the their IBO robot we were developing some software for that that developing some software for that that developing some software for that that kind of got us a little bit involved kind of got us a little bit involved kind of got us a little bit involved with robotics again then there's this with robotics again then there's this with robotics again then there's this opportunity to do a DARPA contract where opportunity to do a DARPA contract where opportunity to do a DARPA contract where they wanted to build they wanted to build they wanted to build a robot dog and uh we we won a contract a robot dog and uh we we won a contract a robot dog and uh we we won a contract to build that and so that was the to build that and so that was the to build that and so that was the Genesis of big dog Genesis of big dog Genesis of big dog and it was a quadruped and it was the and it was a quadruped and it was the and it was a quadruped and it was the first time we built a robot that had first time we built a robot that had first time we built a robot that had everything on board that you could everything on board that you could everything on board that you could actually take the robot out into the actually take the robot out into the actually take the robot out into the wild and operate it so it had onboard wild and operate it so it had onboard wild and operate it so it had onboard power plant it had onboard computers it power plant it had onboard computers it power plant it had onboard computers it had had had hydraulic actuators that needed to be hydraulic actuators that needed to be hydraulic actuators that needed to be cooled so we had cooling systems built cooled so we had cooling systems built cooled so we had cooling systems built in in in everything integrated into the robot everything integrated into the robot everything integrated into the robot and uh that was a pretty rough start and uh that was a pretty rough start and uh that was a pretty rough start right it was it was 10 years that we right it was it was 10 years that we right it was it was 10 years that we were not a robotics company we were a were not a robotics company we were a were not a robotics company we were a simulation company and then we had to

simulation company and then we had to simulation company and then we had to build a robot in about a year so that build a robot in about a year so that build a robot in about a year so that was a little bit of a rough transition was a little bit of a rough transition was a little bit of a rough transition um um um can you just comment on the roughness of can you just comment on the roughness of can you just comment on the roughness of that transition because uh big dog I that transition because uh big dog I that transition because uh big dog I mean this is just big mean this is just big mean this is just big uh quadruped four legs robot rebuilt a uh quadruped four legs robot rebuilt a uh quadruped four legs robot rebuilt a few different versions of them but the few different versions of them but the few different versions of them but the first one you're the very earliest ones first one you're the very earliest ones first one you're the very earliest ones you know it didn't work very well and we you know it didn't work very well and we you know it didn't work very well and we would take them out and it was hard to would take them out and it was hard to would take them out and it was hard to get you know uh get you know uh get you know uh you know a go-kart engine driving a you know a go-kart engine driving a you know a go-kart engine driving a hydraulic that's not what it was hydraulic that's not what it was hydraulic that's not what it was and and you know uh having that all work and and you know uh having that all work and and you know uh having that all work uh while trying to get you know the uh while trying to get you know the uh while trying to get you know the robot to stabilize itself and so what robot to stabilize itself and so what robot to stabilize itself and so what was the power plan what was the engine was the power plan what was the engine was the power plan what was the engine it seemed like uh my vague direct it seemed like uh my vague direct it seemed like uh my vague direct collection collection collection I don't know it felt very loud and I don't know it felt very loud and I don't know it felt very loud and aggressive and uh kind of thrown aggressive and uh kind of thrown aggressive and uh kind of thrown together that's what it kind of oh it together that's what it kind of oh it together that's what it kind of oh it absolutely was right we weren't trying absolutely was right we weren't trying absolutely was right we weren't trying to design the best robot Hardware at the to design the best robot Hardware at the to design the best robot Hardware at the time time time and uh we wanted to buy an off-the-shelf and uh we wanted to buy an off-the-shelf and uh we wanted to buy an off-the-shelf engine and so many of the early versions engine and so many of the early versions engine and so many of the early versions of big dog had literally go-kart engines of big dog had literally go-kart engines of big dog had literally go-kart engines or something like that usually yeah like or something like that usually yeah like or something like that usually yeah like a yeah gas powered two-stroke engine a yeah gas powered two-stroke engine a yeah gas powered two-stroke engine and the reason why it was two-stroke is and the reason why it was two-stroke is and the reason why it was two-stroke is two-stroke engines are lighter weight two-stroke engines are lighter weight two-stroke engines are lighter weight but they're also and we we generally but they're also and we we generally but they're also and we we generally didn't put Mufflers on them because didn't put Mufflers on them because didn't put Mufflers on them because we're trying to save the weight and we we're trying to save the weight and we we're trying to save the weight and we didn't care about the noise and so these didn't care about the noise and so these didn't care about the noise and so these things were horribly loud things were horribly loud things were horribly loud um but we're trying to manage weight um but we're trying to manage weight um but we're trying to manage weight because managing weight in a legged

because managing weight in a legged because managing weight in a legged robot is always important because it has robot is always important because it has robot is always important because it has to carry everything to carry everything to carry everything that said that thing was big well I've that said that thing was big well I've that said that thing was big well I've seen the videos yeah I mean the the seen the videos yeah I mean the the seen the videos yeah I mean the the early versions you know stood about I early versions you know stood about I early versions you know stood about I don't know belly High chest High don't know belly High chest High don't know belly High chest High um you know they probably weighed maybe um you know they probably weighed maybe um you know they probably weighed maybe a couple of hundred pounds but you know a couple of hundred pounds but you know a couple of hundred pounds but you know it over the course of probably five it over the course of probably five it over the course of probably five years years years we are able to get that robot we are able to get that robot we are able to get that robot to really manage a remarkable level of to really manage a remarkable level of to really manage a remarkable level of rough terrain so you know we started out rough terrain so you know we started out rough terrain so you know we started out with just walking on the flat and then with just walking on the flat and then with just walking on the flat and then we started walking on rocks and then we started walking on rocks and then we started walking on rocks and then inclines and then mud and slippery mud inclines and then mud and slippery mud inclines and then mud and slippery mud and you know by the end of that program and you know by the end of that program and you know by the end of that program we were convinced that legged Locomotion we were convinced that legged Locomotion we were convinced that legged Locomotion in a robot could actually work because in a robot could actually work because in a robot could actually work because you know going into it we didn't we you know going into it we didn't we you know going into it we didn't we didn't know that we had built quadrupeds didn't know that we had built quadrupeds didn't know that we had built quadrupeds at at MIT at at MIT at at MIT but they were they used a giant but they were they used a giant but they were they used a giant hydraulic pump you know in the lab they hydraulic pump you know in the lab they hydraulic pump you know in the lab they used a giant computer that was in the used a giant computer that was in the used a giant computer that was in the lab they were always Tethered to the lab lab they were always Tethered to the lab lab they were always Tethered to the lab this was the first time something that this was the first time something that this was the first time something that was sort of self-contained you know was sort of self-contained you know was sort of self-contained you know walked around in the world walked around in the world walked around in the world and balance but and and the purpose was and balance but and and the purpose was and balance but and and the purpose was to prove to ourselves that the legged to prove to ourselves that the legged to prove to ourselves that the legged Locomotion could really work and so Locomotion could really work and so Locomotion could really work and so um big dog really cut that open for us um big dog really cut that open for us um big dog really cut that open for us and it was the beginning of what became and it was the beginning of what became and it was the beginning of what became a whole series of robots so once once we a whole series of robots so once once we a whole series of robots so once once we showed to darpan that you could make it showed to darpan that you could make it showed to darpan that you could make it like a robot that could work like a robot that could work like a robot that could work there was a period at DARPA where there was a period at DARPA where there was a period at DARPA where robotics got really hot and there was robotics got really hot and there was robotics got really hot and there was lots of different programs

lots of different programs lots of different programs and uh you know we were able to build and uh you know we were able to build and uh you know we were able to build other robots we built other quadrupeds other robots we built other quadrupeds other robots we built other quadrupeds to hand like LS3 to hand like LS3 to hand like LS3 designed to carry heavy loads we built designed to carry heavy loads we built designed to carry heavy loads we built cheetah which was designed to explore cheetah which was designed to explore cheetah which was designed to explore what are the limits to how fast you can what are the limits to how fast you can what are the limits to how fast you can run run run you know we began to build sort of a you know we began to build sort of a you know we began to build sort of a portfolio portfolio portfolio of machines and software that let us of machines and software that let us of machines and software that let us build not just one robot but a whole build not just one robot but a whole build not just one robot but a whole family everyone to push the limits in family everyone to push the limits in family everyone to push the limits in all kinds of directions yeah and to all kinds of directions yeah and to all kinds of directions yeah and to discover those principles you know you discover those principles you know you discover those principles you know you asked earlier about the Art and Science asked earlier about the Art and Science asked earlier about the Art and Science of a leg and locomotion of a leg and locomotion of a leg and locomotion we it were able to develop principles of we it were able to develop principles of we it were able to develop principles of legged Locomotion so that we knew how to legged Locomotion so that we knew how to legged Locomotion so that we knew how to build build build a small legged robot or a big one so a small legged robot or a big one so a small legged robot or a big one so like like length you know was now a like like length you know was now a like like length you know was now a parameter that we could play with parameter that we could play with parameter that we could play with payload was a parameter we could play payload was a parameter we could play payload was a parameter we could play with so we built the LS3 which was an with so we built the LS3 which was an with so we built the LS3 which was an 800 pound robot designed to carry a 400 800 pound robot designed to carry a 400 800 pound robot designed to carry a 400 pound payload pound payload pound payload and we we learned the design rules and we we learned the design rules and we we learned the design rules basically developed the design rules how basically developed the design rules how basically developed the design rules how do you scale different robot systems to do you scale different robot systems to do you scale different robot systems to you know their terrain to their walking you know their terrain to their walking you know their terrain to their walking speed to their payload speed to their payload speed to their payload so when uh was spot born 2000 and uh 12 or so so again almost 10 2000 and uh 12 or so so again almost 10 years into sort of a run with DARPA years into sort of a run with DARPA years into sort of a run with DARPA where we built a bunch of different where we built a bunch of different where we built a bunch of different quadrupeds we had a sort of a different quadrupeds we had a sort of a different quadrupeds we had a sort of a different thread where we started building thread where we started building thread where we started building humanoids humanoids humanoids um we we saw that probably an end was

um we we saw that probably an end was um we we saw that probably an end was coming where the government was going to coming where the government was going to coming where the government was going to kind of back off from a lot of Robotics kind of back off from a lot of Robotics kind of back off from a lot of Robotics investment investment investment and uh in order to maintain progress we and uh in order to maintain progress we and uh in order to maintain progress we just deduced that well we probably need just deduced that well we probably need just deduced that well we probably need to sell ourselves to somebody who wants to sell ourselves to somebody who wants to sell ourselves to somebody who wants to continue to invest in this this area to continue to invest in this this area to continue to invest in this this area and that was Google and that was Google and that was Google and so and so and so um at Google we would meet regularly um at Google we would meet regularly um at Google we would meet regularly with Larry Page and Larry just started with Larry Page and Larry just started with Larry Page and Larry just started asking us you know what's your product asking us you know what's your product asking us you know what's your product going to be and you know the logical going to be and you know the logical going to be and you know the logical thing the thing that we had the most thing the thing that we had the most thing the thing that we had the most history with that we wanted to continue history with that we wanted to continue history with that we wanted to continue developing was a quadruped but we knew developing was a quadruped but we knew developing was a quadruped but we knew it needed to be smaller we knew it it needed to be smaller we knew it it needed to be smaller we knew it couldn't have a gas engine we thought it couldn't have a gas engine we thought it couldn't have a gas engine we thought it probably couldn't be hydraulically probably couldn't be hydraulically probably couldn't be hydraulically actuated actuated actuated so that began the process of exploring so that began the process of exploring so that began the process of exploring if we could migrate to a smaller if we could migrate to a smaller if we could migrate to a smaller electrically actuated electrically actuated electrically actuated um robot and that was really the Genesis um robot and that was really the Genesis um robot and that was really the Genesis of spot of spot of spot so not a gas engine and the actuators so not a gas engine and the actuators so not a gas engine and the actuators are electric yes so can you maybe are electric yes so can you maybe are electric yes so can you maybe comment on what it's like comment on what it's like comment on what it's like um my Google working with Larry Page um my Google working with Larry Page um my Google working with Larry Page having those meetings and thinking of having those meetings and thinking of having those meetings and thinking of what will a robot look like what will a robot look like what will a robot look like that could be that could be that could be built that scale what like starting to built that scale what like starting to built that scale what like starting to think about a product think about a product think about a product Larry always liked the the toothbrush Larry always liked the the toothbrush Larry always liked the the toothbrush test he wanted products that you used test he wanted products that you used test he wanted products that you used every day um um what they really wanted was what they really wanted was what they really wanted was you know a consumer level product

you know a consumer level product you know a consumer level product something that would work in your house we didn't think that was the right next we didn't think that was the right next thing to do because to be a consumer thing to do because to be a consumer thing to do because to be a consumer level product cost is going to be very level product cost is going to be very level product cost is going to be very important important important probably need to cost a few thousand probably need to cost a few thousand probably need to cost a few thousand dollars and we were we were building dollars and we were we were building dollars and we were we were building these machines that cost hundreds of these machines that cost hundreds of these machines that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars maybe a million thousands of dollars maybe a million thousands of dollars maybe a million dollars to build of course we were only dollars to build of course we were only dollars to build of course we were only building a two but building a two but building a two but but we didn't see how to get all the way but we didn't see how to get all the way but we didn't see how to get all the way to this consumer level product in a to this consumer level product in a to this consumer level product in a short amount in a short amount of time short amount in a short amount of time short amount in a short amount of time and he suggested that we we make the and he suggested that we we make the and he suggested that we we make the robots really inexpensive robots really inexpensive robots really inexpensive and part of our philosophy has always and part of our philosophy has always and part of our philosophy has always been been been build the best hardware you can build the best hardware you can build the best hardware you can make make the machine operate well make make the machine operate well make make the machine operate well so that you're trying to solve so that you're trying to solve so that you're trying to solve you know discover the the hard problem you know discover the the hard problem you know discover the the hard problem that you don't know about don't don't that you don't know about don't don't that you don't know about don't don't make it harder by by building a crappy make it harder by by building a crappy make it harder by by building a crappy machine basically you build the best machine basically you build the best machine basically you build the best machine you can there's plenty of hard machine you can there's plenty of hard machine you can there's plenty of hard problems to solve that are going to have problems to solve that are going to have problems to solve that are going to have to do with you know under actuated to do with you know under actuated to do with you know under actuated systems and balance systems and balance systems and balance and so we wanted to build these high and so we wanted to build these high and so we wanted to build these high quality machines still and we thought quality machines still and we thought quality machines still and we thought that was important for us to continue that was important for us to continue that was important for us to continue learning about really what was the learning about really what was the learning about really what was the important parts of the make robots work important parts of the make robots work important parts of the make robots work um and so there was a little bit of a um and so there was a little bit of a um and so there was a little bit of a philosophical difference there that we philosophical difference there that we philosophical difference there that we and and so ultimately that's why we're and and so ultimately that's why we're and and so ultimately that's why we're building robots for the industrial building robots for the industrial building robots for the industrial sector now because the industry can sector now because the industry can sector now because the industry can afford a more expensive machine because

afford a more expensive machine because afford a more expensive machine because you know their productivity depends on you know their productivity depends on you know their productivity depends on keeping their Factory going and so if keeping their Factory going and so if keeping their Factory going and so if spot costs you know a hundred thousand spot costs you know a hundred thousand spot costs you know a hundred thousand dollars or more that's not such a big dollars or more that's not such a big dollars or more that's not such a big expense to them whereas at the consumer expense to them whereas at the consumer expense to them whereas at the consumer level no one's going to buy a robot like level no one's going to buy a robot like level no one's going to buy a robot like that and I think we might eventually get that and I think we might eventually get that and I think we might eventually get to a consumer level product that will be to a consumer level product that will be to a consumer level product that will be that cheap but I think the path to that cheap but I think the path to that cheap but I think the path to getting there needs to go through these getting there needs to go through these getting there needs to go through these really nice machines so we can then really nice machines so we can then really nice machines so we can then learn how to simplify learn how to simplify learn how to simplify so what can you say to the almost the so what can you say to the almost the so what can you say to the almost the engineering challenge of bringing down engineering challenge of bringing down engineering challenge of bringing down costs costs costs of a robot so that presumably when you of a robot so that presumably when you of a robot so that presumably when you try to build the robot at scale that try to build the robot at scale that try to build the robot at scale that also comes into play when you're trying also comes into play when you're trying also comes into play when you're trying to make money on a robot even in the to make money on a robot even in the to make money on a robot even in the industrial setting but how interesting industrial setting but how interesting industrial setting but how interesting how challenging how challenging how challenging of of a thing is that in particular of of a thing is that in particular of of a thing is that in particular probably new to an r d company yeah I'm probably new to an r d company yeah I'm probably new to an r d company yeah I'm glad you brought that last part up the glad you brought that last part up the glad you brought that last part up the transition from an r d company to a transition from an r d company to a transition from an r d company to a commercial company commercial company commercial company that's the thing you worry about you that's the thing you worry about you that's the thing you worry about you know because you've got these Engineers know because you've got these Engineers know because you've got these Engineers who love hard problems who want to who love hard problems who want to who love hard problems who want to figure out how to make robots work and figure out how to make robots work and figure out how to make robots work and you don't know if you have Engineers you don't know if you have Engineers you don't know if you have Engineers that want to work on the quality and that want to work on the quality and that want to work on the quality and reliability and costs that is ultimately reliability and costs that is ultimately reliability and costs that is ultimately required required required um and indeed you know we have brought um and indeed you know we have brought um and indeed you know we have brought on a lot of new people who are inspired on a lot of new people who are inspired on a lot of new people who are inspired by those problems by those problems by those problems but but the big takeaway lesson for me but but the big takeaway lesson for me but but the big takeaway lesson for me is is is we have good people we have Engineers we have good people we have Engineers we have good people we have Engineers who want to solve problems and and the

who want to solve problems and and the who want to solve problems and and the quality and cost and manufacturability quality and cost and manufacturability quality and cost and manufacturability is just another kind of problem is just another kind of problem is just another kind of problem and because they're so invested in what and because they're so invested in what and because they're so invested in what we're doing they're interested in and we're doing they're interested in and we're doing they're interested in and we'll go work on on those problems as we'll go work on on those problems as we'll go work on on those problems as well and so I think we're managing that well and so I think we're managing that well and so I think we're managing that transition very well in fact I'm really transition very well in fact I'm really transition very well in fact I'm really pleased that pleased that pleased that I mean uh it's a huge undertaking by the I mean uh it's a huge undertaking by the I mean uh it's a huge undertaking by the way right so even having way right so even having way right so even having to get reliability to where it needs to to get reliability to where it needs to to get reliability to where it needs to be we have to have fleets of robots that be we have to have fleets of robots that be we have to have fleets of robots that we're just operating 24 7 in our offices we're just operating 24 7 in our offices we're just operating 24 7 in our offices to go find those rare failures and to go find those rare failures and to go find those rare failures and eliminate them it's just a totally eliminate them it's just a totally eliminate them it's just a totally different kind of activity than the different kind of activity than the different kind of activity than the research activity where you get it to research activity where you get it to research activity where you get it to work you know the one robot you have to work you know the one robot you have to work you know the one robot you have to work in a repeatable way you know at the work in a repeatable way you know at the work in a repeatable way you know at the at the high stakes demo it's just very at the high stakes demo it's just very at the high stakes demo it's just very different different different um but I think we're making remarkable um but I think we're making remarkable um but I think we're making remarkable progress against it so one of the cool progress against it so one of the cool progress against it so one of the cool things that got a chance to visit Boston things that got a chance to visit Boston things that got a chance to visit Boston Dynamics and I mean one of the things that's really cool is one of the things that's really cool is to see a large number of robots moving to see a large number of robots moving to see a large number of robots moving about about about because I think one of the things you because I think one of the things you because I think one of the things you notice in the research environment is notice in the research environment is notice in the research environment is the MIT for example I don't think anyone the MIT for example I don't think anyone the MIT for example I don't think anyone ever has a working robot for prolonged ever has a working robot for prolonged ever has a working robot for prolonged exactly so like most robots are just exactly so like most robots are just exactly so like most robots are just sitting there in a sad sitting there in a sad sitting there in a sad state of despair waiting to be born state of despair waiting to be born state of despair waiting to be born brought to life for a brief moment of brought to life for a brief moment of brought to life for a brief moment of time but just to have I just I just time but just to have I just I just time but just to have I just I just remember there's like a there's a spot

remember there's like a there's a spot remember there's like a there's a spot robot just I I had like a cowboy hat on robot just I I had like a cowboy hat on robot just I I had like a cowboy hat on it was just walking randomly for it was just walking randomly for it was just walking randomly for whatever reason I don't even know but whatever reason I don't even know but whatever reason I don't even know but there's a kind of a sense of sentience there's a kind of a sense of sentience there's a kind of a sense of sentience to it because it doesn't seem like to it because it doesn't seem like to it because it doesn't seem like anybody was supervising it but it was anybody was supervising it but it was anybody was supervising it but it was just doing it I'm gonna stop way short just doing it I'm gonna stop way short just doing it I'm gonna stop way short of the sentience of the sentience of the sentience um it is the case that if you come to um it is the case that if you come to um it is the case that if you come to our office you know today and walk our office you know today and walk our office you know today and walk around the hallways around the hallways around the hallways um you're gonna see a dozen robots just um you're gonna see a dozen robots just um you're gonna see a dozen robots just kind of walking around yes all the time kind of walking around yes all the time kind of walking around yes all the time and that's really a reliability test for and that's really a reliability test for and that's really a reliability test for us so we have these robots programmed to us so we have these robots programmed to us so we have these robots programmed to do autonomous missions get up off their do autonomous missions get up off their do autonomous missions get up off their charging dock walk around the building charging dock walk around the building charging dock walk around the building collect data at a few different places collect data at a few different places collect data at a few different places and go sit back down and we want that to and go sit back down and we want that to and go sit back down and we want that to be a very reliable process because be a very reliable process because be a very reliable process because that's what somebody who's running a a that's what somebody who's running a a that's what somebody who's running a a brewery a factory that's what they need brewery a factory that's what they need brewery a factory that's what they need the robot to do so we have to we have to the robot to do so we have to we have to the robot to do so we have to we have to dog food our own robot we have to test dog food our own robot we have to test dog food our own robot we have to test it in that way it in that way it in that way and um so on a weekly basis we have and um so on a weekly basis we have and um so on a weekly basis we have robots that are accruing something like robots that are accruing something like robots that are accruing something like um 1500 or maybe 2 000 kilometers of um 1500 or maybe 2 000 kilometers of um 1500 or maybe 2 000 kilometers of walking walking walking and uh you know over a thousand hours of and uh you know over a thousand hours of and uh you know over a thousand hours of operation every week and that's operation every week and that's operation every week and that's something that almost I don't think something that almost I don't think something that almost I don't think anybody else in the world can do because anybody else in the world can do because anybody else in the world can do because hey you have to have a fleet of robots hey you have to have a fleet of robots hey you have to have a fleet of robots to just accrue that much information to just accrue that much information to just accrue that much information you have to be willing to dedicate it to you have to be willing to dedicate it to you have to be willing to dedicate it to that test and uh so that's but that's that test and uh so that's but that's that test and uh so that's but that's essential that's how you get the essential that's how you get the essential that's how you get the reliability that's how you get it what reliability that's how you get it what reliability that's how you get it what about some of the cost cutting from the

about some of the cost cutting from the about some of the cost cutting from the from the manufacturer side what what from the manufacturer side what what from the manufacturer side what what have you learned from the manufacturer have you learned from the manufacturer have you learned from the manufacturer side of the transition from r d and side of the transition from r d and side of the transition from r d and we're still we're still learning a lot we're still we're still learning a lot we're still we're still learning a lot there there there um we're learning how to cast Parts in um we're learning how to cast Parts in um we're learning how to cast Parts in Solo instead of Mill it all out of you Solo instead of Mill it all out of you Solo instead of Mill it all out of you know Billet aluminum know Billet aluminum know Billet aluminum um we're learning how to get plastic um we're learning how to get plastic um we're learning how to get plastic molded parts for and we're learning molded parts for and we're learning molded parts for and we're learning about how to control that process so about how to control that process so about how to control that process so that you can build the same robot twice that you can build the same robot twice that you can build the same robot twice in a row there's a lot to learn there in a row there's a lot to learn there in a row there's a lot to learn there and we're only part way through that and we're only part way through that and we're only part way through that process process process um we've we've set up a manufacturing um we've we've set up a manufacturing um we've we've set up a manufacturing facility in Waltham it's about a mile facility in Waltham it's about a mile facility in Waltham it's about a mile from our headquarters and we're doing from our headquarters and we're doing from our headquarters and we're doing final assembly and test of both spots final assembly and test of both spots final assembly and test of both spots and stretches you know at that factory and stretches you know at that factory and stretches you know at that factory and um and um and um and it's hard because to be honest we're and it's hard because to be honest we're and it's hard because to be honest we're still iterating on the design of the still iterating on the design of the still iterating on the design of the robot as we find failures from these robot as we find failures from these robot as we find failures from these reliability tests we need to go engineer reliability tests we need to go engineer reliability tests we need to go engineer changes and those changes need to now be changes and those changes need to now be changes and those changes need to now be propagated to the manufacturing line and propagated to the manufacturing line and propagated to the manufacturing line and that's a hard process especially when that's a hard process especially when that's a hard process especially when you want to move as fast as we do you want to move as fast as we do you want to move as fast as we do and that's been challenging and it makes and that's been challenging and it makes and that's been challenging and it makes it you know the folks who are working it you know the folks who are working it you know the folks who are working supply chain who are trying to get the supply chain who are trying to get the supply chain who are trying to get the cheapest parts for us kind of requires cheapest parts for us kind of requires cheapest parts for us kind of requires that you buy a lot of them to make them that you buy a lot of them to make them that you buy a lot of them to make them cheap and then we go change the design cheap and then we go change the design cheap and then we go change the design from underneath them and they're like from underneath them and they're like from underneath them and they're like what are you doing and so you know what are you doing and so you know what are you doing and so you know getting everybody on the same page here getting everybody on the same page here getting everybody on the same page here that it yep we still need to move fast that it yep we still need to move fast that it yep we still need to move fast but we also need to try to figure out but we also need to try to figure out but we also need to try to figure out how to reduce costs that's one of the how to reduce costs that's one of the how to reduce costs that's one of the challenges of of this migration we're challenges of of this migration we're challenges of of this migration we're going through and over the past few

going through and over the past few going through and over the past few years challenges to the supply chain I years challenges to the supply chain I years challenges to the supply chain I mean imagine you've been a part of a mean imagine you've been a part of a mean imagine you've been a part of a bunch of stressful meetings yeah things bunch of stressful meetings yeah things bunch of stressful meetings yeah things got more expensive and harder to get and got more expensive and harder to get and got more expensive and harder to get and yeah so it's it's all been a challenge yeah so it's it's all been a challenge yeah so it's it's all been a challenge is there still room for simplification is there still room for simplification is there still room for simplification oh yeah much more and you know these are oh yeah much more and you know these are oh yeah much more and you know these are really just the first generation of really just the first generation of really just the first generation of these machines we're already thinking these machines we're already thinking these machines we're already thinking about what the next generation of spots about what the next generation of spots about what the next generation of spots going to look like going to look like going to look like spot was built as a platform so you spot was built as a platform so you spot was built as a platform so you could put almost any sensor on it and we could put almost any sensor on it and we could put almost any sensor on it and we provided data Communications mechanical provided data Communications mechanical provided data Communications mechanical connections uh Power connections connections uh Power connections connections uh Power connections and but for example in the applications and but for example in the applications and but for example in the applications that we're excited about where you're that we're excited about where you're that we're excited about where you're you're monitoring these factories for you're monitoring these factories for you're monitoring these factories for their health their health their health there's probably a simpler machine that there's probably a simpler machine that there's probably a simpler machine that we could build that's really focused on we could build that's really focused on we could build that's really focused on that use case and that's the difference that use case and that's the difference that use case and that's the difference between the general purpose machine or between the general purpose machine or between the general purpose machine or the platform versus the purpose-built the platform versus the purpose-built the platform versus the purpose-built machine and so even though even in the machine and so even though even in the machine and so even though even in the factory we'd still like the robot to do factory we'd still like the robot to do factory we'd still like the robot to do lots of different tasks if it's if we lots of different tasks if it's if we lots of different tasks if it's if we really knew on day one that we're going really knew on day one that we're going really knew on day one that we're going to be operating in a factory with these to be operating in a factory with these to be operating in a factory with these three sensors in it we would have it all three sensors in it we would have it all three sensors in it we would have it all integrated in a package that would be integrated in a package that would be integrated in a package that would be easier more less expensive and more easier more less expensive and more easier more less expensive and more reliable so we're contemplating building reliable so we're contemplating building reliable so we're contemplating building you know a next generation of that you know a next generation of that you know a next generation of that machine so she mentioned that there's a machine so she mentioned that there's a machine so she mentioned that there's a spot spot spot for people who somehow are not familiar for people who somehow are not familiar for people who somehow are not familiar uh so it's a yellow robotic dog uh so it's a yellow robotic dog uh so it's a yellow robotic dog and and and um has been featured in many Dance

um has been featured in many Dance um has been featured in many Dance videos it also has gained an arm videos it also has gained an arm videos it also has gained an arm so what can you say about the arm that so what can you say about the arm that so what can you say about the arm that spot has about the challenges of this spot has about the challenges of this spot has about the challenges of this design design design and the manufacture of it we think the and the manufacture of it we think the and the manufacture of it we think the future of mobile robots is mobile future of mobile robots is mobile future of mobile robots is mobile manipulation that's where manipulation that's where manipulation that's where you know in the past 10 years you know in the past 10 years you know in the past 10 years it was getting Mobility to work getting it was getting Mobility to work getting it was getting Mobility to work getting the legged look emotional work if you the legged look emotional work if you the legged look emotional work if you ask what's the hard problem in the next ask what's the hard problem in the next ask what's the hard problem in the next 10 years 10 years 10 years it's getting a mobile robot to do useful it's getting a mobile robot to do useful it's getting a mobile robot to do useful manipulation for you manipulation for you manipulation for you and so we wanted spot to have an arm to and so we wanted spot to have an arm to and so we wanted spot to have an arm to experiment with those problems experiment with those problems experiment with those problems um and the arm is um and the arm is um and the arm is um um um almost as complex as the robot itself almost as complex as the robot itself almost as complex as the robot itself you know and uh it's a it's an you know and uh it's a it's an you know and uh it's a it's an attachable payload attachable payload attachable payload um it has you know several Motors and um it has you know several Motors and um it has you know several Motors and actuators and sensors it has a camera in actuators and sensors it has a camera in actuators and sensors it has a camera in the end of its hand so you know you can the end of its hand so you know you can the end of its hand so you know you can sort of see something sort of see something sort of see something the and the robot will control the the and the robot will control the the and the robot will control the motion of its hand to go pick it up motion of its hand to go pick it up motion of its hand to go pick it up autonomously so in the same way the autonomously so in the same way the autonomously so in the same way the robot walks and balances managing its robot walks and balances managing its robot walks and balances managing its own foot placement to stay balanced we own foot placement to stay balanced we own foot placement to stay balanced we want manipulation to be mostly want manipulation to be mostly want manipulation to be mostly autonomous where the robot you indicate autonomous where the robot you indicate autonomous where the robot you indicate okay go grab that bottle and then the okay go grab that bottle and then the okay go grab that bottle and then the robot will just go do it using the robot will just go do it using the robot will just go do it using the camera in its hand and then sort of camera in its hand and then sort of camera in its hand and then sort of closing in on that um the grasp closing in on that um the grasp closing in on that um the grasp but it's it's a whole nother complex but it's it's a whole nother complex but it's it's a whole nother complex robot on top of a complex legged robot robot on top of a complex legged robot robot on top of a complex legged robot and so and of course we made it the hand

and so and of course we made it the hand and so and of course we made it the hand look a little like a head you know look a little like a head you know look a little like a head you know because again we want it to be sort of because again we want it to be sort of because again we want it to be sort of identifiable in the last year a lot of identifiable in the last year a lot of identifiable in the last year a lot of our sales have been people who already our sales have been people who already our sales have been people who already have a robot now buying an arm to add to have a robot now buying an arm to add to have a robot now buying an arm to add to that robot oh interesting and so the the that robot oh interesting and so the the that robot oh interesting and so the the armor is for sale oh yeah oh yeah it's armor is for sale oh yeah oh yeah it's armor is for sale oh yeah oh yeah it's an option what's the what's the an option what's the what's the an option what's the what's the interface like to work with the arm like interface like to work with the arm like interface like to work with the arm like is it pretty so are they designed is it pretty so are they designed is it pretty so are they designed primarily I guess just ask that question primarily I guess just ask that question primarily I guess just ask that question in general about robots from Boston in general about robots from Boston in general about robots from Boston Dynamics is it designed to be Dynamics is it designed to be Dynamics is it designed to be easily and efficiently operated remotely easily and efficiently operated remotely easily and efficiently operated remotely by a human being or is there also the by a human being or is there also the by a human being or is there also the capability to push towards autonomy we capability to push towards autonomy we capability to push towards autonomy we want both want both want both uh in the next version of the software uh in the next version of the software uh in the next version of the software that we release uh which will be version that we release uh which will be version that we release uh which will be version 3.3 we're going to offer the ability of 3.3 we're going to offer the ability of 3.3 we're going to offer the ability of if you have a autonomous mission for the if you have a autonomous mission for the if you have a autonomous mission for the robot we're going to include the option robot we're going to include the option robot we're going to include the option that it can go through a door which that it can go through a door which that it can go through a door which means it's going to have to have an arm means it's going to have to have an arm means it's going to have to have an arm and it's gonna have to use that arm to and it's gonna have to use that arm to and it's gonna have to use that arm to open the door open the door open the door and so that'll be an autonomous and so that'll be an autonomous and so that'll be an autonomous manipulation task that just you can manipulation task that just you can manipulation task that just you can program easily uh with the robot program easily uh with the robot program easily uh with the robot strictly through you know we have a strictly through you know we have a strictly through you know we have a tablet interface tablet interface tablet interface and so on the tablet you know you sort and so on the tablet you know you sort and so on the tablet you know you sort of see the The View that spot sees you of see the The View that spot sees you of see the The View that spot sees you say there's the door handle you know the say there's the door handle you know the say there's the door handle you know the hinges are on the left and it opens in hinges are on the left and it opens in hinges are on the left and it opens in the rest is up to you take care oh so it the rest is up to you take care oh so it the rest is up to you take care oh so it just takes care of everything yeah so we

just takes care of everything yeah so we just takes care of everything yeah so we we want in for a task like opening doors we want in for a task like opening doors we want in for a task like opening doors you can automate most of that and we've you can automate most of that and we've you can automate most of that and we've automated a few other tasks we had a automated a few other tasks we had a automated a few other tasks we had a customer customer customer who had a high-powered breaker switch who had a high-powered breaker switch who had a high-powered breaker switch essentially it's an electric utility essentially it's an electric utility essentially it's an electric utility Ontario power generation Ontario power generation Ontario power generation and they have to when they're going to and they have to when they're going to and they have to when they're going to disconnect you know their power supply disconnect you know their power supply disconnect you know their power supply right that could be a gas generator right that could be a gas generator right that could be a gas generator could be a nuclear power plant you know could be a nuclear power plant you know could be a nuclear power plant you know from the grid you have to disconnect from the grid you have to disconnect from the grid you have to disconnect this breaker switch as you can imagine this breaker switch as you can imagine this breaker switch as you can imagine there's you know hundreds or thousands there's you know hundreds or thousands there's you know hundreds or thousands of amps and volts involved in this of amps and volts involved in this of amps and volts involved in this breaker switch breaker switch breaker switch and it's a dangerous event because and it's a dangerous event because and it's a dangerous event because occasionally you'll get what's called an occasionally you'll get what's called an occasionally you'll get what's called an arc flash as you just do this disconnect arc flash as you just do this disconnect arc flash as you just do this disconnect the power the Sparks jump across and the power the Sparks jump across and the power the Sparks jump across and people die doing this people die doing this people die doing this and so uh Ontario power generation used and so uh Ontario power generation used and so uh Ontario power generation used our spot and and the arm through the our spot and and the arm through the our spot and and the arm through the interface to to operate this this interface to to operate this this interface to to operate this this disconnect disconnect disconnect um that's right in an interactive way um that's right in an interactive way um that's right in an interactive way and they showed it to us and they showed it to us and they showed it to us and we were so excited about it and said and we were so excited about it and said and we were so excited about it and said you know I bet we can automate that task you know I bet we can automate that task you know I bet we can automate that task and so we we got some examples of that and so we we got some examples of that and so we we got some examples of that breaker switch and I believe in the next breaker switch and I believe in the next breaker switch and I believe in the next generation of the software now we're generation of the software now we're generation of the software now we're going to deliver back to Ontario power going to deliver back to Ontario power going to deliver back to Ontario power generation they're going to be able to generation they're going to be able to generation they're going to be able to just point the robot just point the robot just point the robot at that breaker so we have to indicate at that breaker so we have to indicate at that breaker so we have to indicate that's the switch there's sort of two that's the switch there's sort of two that's the switch there's sort of two actions you have to do you have to flip actions you have to do you have to flip actions you have to do you have to flip up this little cover press a button then up this little cover press a button then up this little cover press a button then get a ratchet stick it in to a socket

get a ratchet stick it in to a socket get a ratchet stick it in to a socket and literally unscrew this giant breaker and literally unscrew this giant breaker and literally unscrew this giant breaker switch so there's a bunch of different switch so there's a bunch of different switch so there's a bunch of different tasks and we basically automated them so tasks and we basically automated them so tasks and we basically automated them so that the human says okay there's the that the human says okay there's the that the human says okay there's the switch go do that part switch go do that part switch go do that part that right there is the socket where that right there is the socket where that right there is the socket where you're going to put your tool and you're you're going to put your tool and you're you're going to put your tool and you're going to open it up and so you can going to open it up and so you can going to open it up and so you can remotely sort of indicate this on the a remotely sort of indicate this on the a remotely sort of indicate this on the a tablet and then the robot just does tablet and then the robot just does tablet and then the robot just does everything in between and it does everything in between and it does everything in between and it does everything all the coordinated movement everything all the coordinated movement everything all the coordinated movement of all the different actuators that of all the different actuators that of all the different actuators that include the body and it maintains its include the body and it maintains its include the body and it maintains its balance it it walks itself you know into balance it it walks itself you know into balance it it walks itself you know into position so it's within reach and the position so it's within reach and the position so it's within reach and the arm is in a position where it can do the arm is in a position where it can do the arm is in a position where it can do the whole task so it manages uh the whole whole task so it manages uh the whole whole task so it manages uh the whole body so how does one become a big enough body so how does one become a big enough body so how does one become a big enough customer to request features because I customer to request features because I customer to request features because I personally want a robot that gets me personally want a robot that gets me personally want a robot that gets me beer beer beer I mean that has to be like one of the I mean that has to be like one of the I mean that has to be like one of the most requests I suppose in the most requests I suppose in the most requests I suppose in the industrial setting that's uh a industrial setting that's uh a industrial setting that's uh a non-alcoholic beverage non-alcoholic beverage non-alcoholic beverage um of picking up objects and bringing um of picking up objects and bringing um of picking up objects and bringing the objects to you we love working with the objects to you we love working with the objects to you we love working with customers who have challenging problems customers who have challenging problems customers who have challenging problems like this and and this one in particular like this and and this one in particular like this and and this one in particular because we felt like because we felt like because we felt like what they were doing a it was a safety what they were doing a it was a safety what they were doing a it was a safety feature B we saw that the robot could do feature B we saw that the robot could do feature B we saw that the robot could do it because they they tele operated it it because they they tele operated it it because they they tele operated it the first time probably took him an hour the first time probably took him an hour the first time probably took him an hour to do it the first time right but the to do it the first time right but the to do it the first time right but the robot was clearly capable and we thought robot was clearly capable and we thought robot was clearly capable and we thought oh this is a great problem for us to oh this is a great problem for us to oh this is a great problem for us to work on to figure out how to automate a work on to figure out how to automate a work on to figure out how to automate a manipulation task and so we took it on manipulation task and so we took it on manipulation task and so we took it on not not because we were going to make a not not because we were going to make a not not because we were going to make a bunch of money from it and selling the

bunch of money from it and selling the bunch of money from it and selling the robot back to them but because it robot back to them but because it robot back to them but because it motivated us to go solve what we saw as motivated us to go solve what we saw as motivated us to go solve what we saw as the next logical step the next logical step the next logical step but many of our customers in fact uh we but many of our customers in fact uh we but many of our customers in fact uh we we try to our bigger customers who we try to our bigger customers who we try to our bigger customers who typically ones who are going to run a typically ones who are going to run a typically ones who are going to run a utility or a factory or something like utility or a factory or something like utility or a factory or something like that that that we take that kind of direction from them we take that kind of direction from them we take that kind of direction from them and if they're especially if they're and if they're especially if they're and if they're especially if they're going to buy 10 or 20 or 30 robots and going to buy 10 or 20 or 30 robots and going to buy 10 or 20 or 30 robots and they say I really needed to do this well they say I really needed to do this well they say I really needed to do this well that's exactly the right kind of problem that's exactly the right kind of problem that's exactly the right kind of problem that we want to be working on and and so that we want to be working on and and so that we want to be working on and and so note to self buy 10 spots note to self buy 10 spots note to self buy 10 spots and aggressively pushed for beer and aggressively pushed for beer and aggressively pushed for beer manipulation manipulation manipulation I think it's fair to say it's I think it's fair to say it's I think it's fair to say it's notoriously difficult to make a lot of notoriously difficult to make a lot of notoriously difficult to make a lot of money as a robotics company money as a robotics company money as a robotics company how can you make money as a robotics how can you make money as a robotics how can you make money as a robotics company can you speak to that it seems company can you speak to that it seems company can you speak to that it seems that a lot of Robotics companies fail that a lot of Robotics companies fail that a lot of Robotics companies fail um it's difficult to build robots it's um it's difficult to build robots it's um it's difficult to build robots it's difficult to build robots at a low difficult to build robots at a low difficult to build robots at a low enough cost where customers even the enough cost where customers even the enough cost where customers even the industrial setting want to purchase them industrial setting want to purchase them industrial setting want to purchase them and it's difficult to build robots that and it's difficult to build robots that and it's difficult to build robots that are useful sufficiently useful so what are useful sufficiently useful so what are useful sufficiently useful so what can you speak to and Boston Dynamics has can you speak to and Boston Dynamics has can you speak to and Boston Dynamics has been been been uh successful for many years of finding uh successful for many years of finding uh successful for many years of finding a way to make money well in the early a way to make money well in the early a way to make money well in the early days of course you know the money we days of course you know the money we days of course you know the money we made was from doing contract r d work made was from doing contract r d work made was from doing contract r d work and we made money and we made money and we made money but you know we weren't growing and we but you know we weren't growing and we but you know we weren't growing and we weren't selling a product weren't selling a product weren't selling a product and then we went through several owners and then we went through several owners and then we went through several owners who who who you know had a vision of not only

you know had a vision of not only you know had a vision of not only developing advanced technology but developing advanced technology but developing advanced technology but eventually developing products and so eventually developing products and so eventually developing products and so both you know Google and SoftBank and both you know Google and SoftBank and both you know Google and SoftBank and now Hyundai now Hyundai now Hyundai you know had that vision and were you know had that vision and were you know had that vision and were willing to you know provide that in willing to you know provide that in willing to you know provide that in investment investment investment um now our discipline is that we need to um now our discipline is that we need to um now our discipline is that we need to go find applications that are broad go find applications that are broad go find applications that are broad enough that you could imagine selling enough that you could imagine selling enough that you could imagine selling thousands of robots because it doesn't thousands of robots because it doesn't thousands of robots because it doesn't work if you don't sell thousands or tens work if you don't sell thousands or tens work if you don't sell thousands or tens of thousands of robots if you only sell of thousands of robots if you only sell of thousands of robots if you only sell hundreds hundreds hundreds you will commercially fail and that's you will commercially fail and that's you will commercially fail and that's where most of the small robot companies where most of the small robot companies where most of the small robot companies have died have died have died um um um and and that's a challenge because and and that's a challenge because and and that's a challenge because you know a you need to field the robots you know a you need to field the robots you know a you need to field the robots they need to start to become reli they need to start to become reli they need to start to become reli reliable and as we as we've said that reliable and as we as we've said that reliable and as we as we've said that takes time and investment to get there takes time and investment to get there takes time and investment to get there and so it really does take Visionary and so it really does take Visionary and so it really does take Visionary investment to get there but we we investment to get there but we we investment to get there but we we believe that we are going to make money believe that we are going to make money believe that we are going to make money in this uh industrial monitoring space in this uh industrial monitoring space in this uh industrial monitoring space because because because you know if uh if a chip Fab if the line you know if uh if a chip Fab if the line you know if uh if a chip Fab if the line goes down because a vacuum pump failed goes down because a vacuum pump failed goes down because a vacuum pump failed someplace that can be in a very someplace that can be in a very someplace that can be in a very expensive process it can be a million expensive process it can be a million expensive process it can be a million dollars a day in Lost production maybe dollars a day in Lost production maybe dollars a day in Lost production maybe you have to throw away some of the you have to throw away some of the you have to throw away some of the product along the way product along the way product along the way and so the robot if you can prevent that and so the robot if you can prevent that and so the robot if you can prevent that by inspecting the factory every single by inspecting the factory every single by inspecting the factory every single day maybe every hour if you have to day maybe every hour if you have to day maybe every hour if you have to There's real return on investment there

There's real return on investment there There's real return on investment there but there needs to be a critical mass of but there needs to be a critical mass of but there needs to be a critical mass of this task and and we're focusing on a this task and and we're focusing on a this task and and we're focusing on a few few few that we believe are that we believe are that we believe are ubiquitous in the industrial production ubiquitous in the industrial production ubiquitous in the industrial production environment and that's using a thermal environment and that's using a thermal environment and that's using a thermal camera to keep things from overheating camera to keep things from overheating camera to keep things from overheating using an acoustic imager to find using an acoustic imager to find using an acoustic imager to find compressed air leaks using visual compressed air leaks using visual compressed air leaks using visual cameras to read gauges cameras to read gauges cameras to read gauges measuring vibration these are standard measuring vibration these are standard measuring vibration these are standard things that you do to prevent unintended things that you do to prevent unintended things that you do to prevent unintended shutdown of a factory shutdown of a factory shutdown of a factory and this this takes place in a beer and this this takes place in a beer and this this takes place in a beer factory we're working with a B inbev it factory we're working with a B inbev it factory we're working with a B inbev it takes place in chip Fabs you know we're takes place in chip Fabs you know we're takes place in chip Fabs you know we're working with global foundries uh it working with global foundries uh it working with global foundries uh it takes place in electric utilities and takes place in electric utilities and takes place in electric utilities and nuclear power plants and so the same nuclear power plants and so the same nuclear power plants and so the same robot robot robot can be applied in all of these can be applied in all of these can be applied in all of these industries industries industries and and as I said we have about actually and and as I said we have about actually and and as I said we have about actually it's 1100 spots out now to really get uh it's 1100 spots out now to really get uh it's 1100 spots out now to really get uh you know profitability we need to be at you know profitability we need to be at you know profitability we need to be at a thousand a year maybe maybe 1500 a a thousand a year maybe maybe 1500 a a thousand a year maybe maybe 1500 a year you know for that sort of part of year you know for that sort of part of year you know for that sort of part of the business so it still needs to grow the business so it still needs to grow the business so it still needs to grow um but but we're on a good path so I um but but we're on a good path so I um but but we're on a good path so I think that's totally achievable so the think that's totally achievable so the think that's totally achievable so the application should require the crossing application should require the crossing application should require the crossing that thousand robot barrier it really that thousand robot barrier it really that thousand robot barrier it really should yeah I want to mention you know should yeah I want to mention you know should yeah I want to mention you know our second robot uh stretch yeah tell me our second robot uh stretch yeah tell me our second robot uh stretch yeah tell me about stretch what's stretch who stretch about stretch what's stretch who stretch about stretch what's stretch who stretch stretch started differently than spot stretch started differently than spot stretch started differently than spot you know spot we built because we had you know spot we built because we had you know spot we built because we had Decades of experience building

Decades of experience building Decades of experience building quadrupeds we just we had it in our quadrupeds we just we had it in our quadrupeds we just we had it in our blood we had to build a quadruped blood we had to build a quadruped blood we had to build a quadruped product but we had to go figure out what product but we had to go figure out what product but we had to go figure out what the application was and we actually the application was and we actually the application was and we actually discovered this this Factory Patrol discovered this this Factory Patrol discovered this this Factory Patrol application uh basically preventative application uh basically preventative application uh basically preventative maintenance by seeing what our customers maintenance by seeing what our customers maintenance by seeing what our customers did with it did with it did with it stretch is very different we started stretch is very different we started stretch is very different we started knowing that there was warehouses all knowing that there was warehouses all knowing that there was warehouses all over the world there's shipping over the world there's shipping over the world there's shipping containers moving all around the world containers moving all around the world containers moving all around the world full of boxes that are mostly being full of boxes that are mostly being full of boxes that are mostly being moved by hand moved by hand moved by hand by some estimates we think there's a by some estimates we think there's a by some estimates we think there's a trillion boxes cardboard boxes shipped trillion boxes cardboard boxes shipped trillion boxes cardboard boxes shipped around the world each year and a lot of around the world each year and a lot of around the world each year and a lot of it's done manually it's done manually it's done manually it became clear early on it became clear early on it became clear early on that there was an opportunity for a that there was an opportunity for a that there was an opportunity for a mobile robot in here to move boxes mobile robot in here to move boxes mobile robot in here to move boxes around around around and the commercial experience has been and the commercial experience has been and the commercial experience has been very different between stretch and with very different between stretch and with very different between stretch and with spot spot spot as soon as we started talking to as soon as we started talking to as soon as we started talking to people or potential customers about what people or potential customers about what people or potential customers about what stretch was going to be used for they stretch was going to be used for they stretch was going to be used for they immediately started saying oh I'll buy immediately started saying oh I'll buy immediately started saying oh I'll buy I'll buy that Roma you know in fact I'm I'll buy that Roma you know in fact I'm I'll buy that Roma you know in fact I'm going to put in an order for for 20 going to put in an order for for 20 going to put in an order for for 20 right now we just started shipping the right now we just started shipping the right now we just started shipping the robot in January robot in January robot in January after you know several years of after you know several years of after you know several years of development of this year this year so development of this year this year so development of this year this year so our first deliveries of stretch to our first deliveries of stretch to our first deliveries of stretch to customers were DHL and Maersk in January customers were DHL and Maersk in January customers were DHL and Maersk in January we're delivering a gap right now and we we're delivering a gap right now and we we're delivering a gap right now and we have about seven or eight other have about seven or eight other have about seven or eight other customers all who've already agreed in customers all who've already agreed in customers all who've already agreed in advance to buy between 10 and 20 robots advance to buy between 10 and 20 robots advance to buy between 10 and 20 robots and so we've already got commitments for and so we've already got commitments for and so we've already got commitments for you know a couple hundred of these you know a couple hundred of these you know a couple hundred of these robots

robots robots this one's gonna go right it's so this one's gonna go right it's so this one's gonna go right it's so obvious that there's a need and we're obvious that there's a need and we're obvious that there's a need and we're not just going to unload trucks we're not just going to unload trucks we're not just going to unload trucks we're going to do any box moving task in the going to do any box moving task in the going to do any box moving task in the warehouse and so it too will be a warehouse and so it too will be a warehouse and so it too will be a multi-purpose robot and we'll eventually multi-purpose robot and we'll eventually multi-purpose robot and we'll eventually have it doing palletizing or have it doing palletizing or have it doing palletizing or de-palletizing or loading trucks or de-palletizing or loading trucks or de-palletizing or loading trucks or unloading trucks unloading trucks unloading trucks there's definitely thousands of robots there's definitely thousands of robots there's definitely thousands of robots there's probably tens of thousands of there's probably tens of thousands of there's probably tens of thousands of robots of this in in the future so it's robots of this in in the future so it's robots of this in in the future so it's going to be profitable can you describe going to be profitable can you describe going to be profitable can you describe what stretch looks like it looks like a what stretch looks like it looks like a what stretch looks like it looks like a big strong uh robot arm on a mobile base big strong uh robot arm on a mobile base big strong uh robot arm on a mobile base the base is about the size of a pallet the base is about the size of a pallet the base is about the size of a pallet and we want it to be the size of a and we want it to be the size of a and we want it to be the size of a palette because that's what lives in palette because that's what lives in palette because that's what lives in warehouses right pallets of goods warehouses right pallets of goods warehouses right pallets of goods sitting everywhere so we needed to be sitting everywhere so we needed to be sitting everywhere so we needed to be able to fit in that space it's not a able to fit in that space it's not a able to fit in that space it's not a legged mobile not a legged robot so it legged mobile not a legged robot so it legged mobile not a legged robot so it was our first was our first was our first it was actually it was actually it was actually um um um a bit of a a bit of a a bit of a uh commitment from us a challenge for us uh commitment from us a challenge for us uh commitment from us a challenge for us to build a non-balancing robot to build a non-balancing robot to build a non-balancing robot to do the much easier problem and to put to do the much easier problem and to put to do the much easier problem and to put to do away well because it wasn't you to do away well because it wasn't you to do away well because it wasn't you know it wasn't going to have this know it wasn't going to have this know it wasn't going to have this balance problem and in fact the very balance problem and in fact the very balance problem and in fact the very first version of the logistics robot we first version of the logistics robot we first version of the logistics robot we build was a balancing robot and that's build was a balancing robot and that's build was a balancing robot and that's called handle and there's that thing was called handle and there's that thing was called handle and there's that thing was epic oh it's a beautiful machine it's an epic oh it's a beautiful machine it's an epic oh it's a beautiful machine it's an incredible machine so it was uh incredible machine so it was uh incredible machine so it was uh I mean it looks epic it looks like a out I mean it looks epic it looks like a out I mean it looks epic it looks like a out of a uh I mean out of the sci-fi movie of a uh I mean out of the sci-fi movie of a uh I mean out of the sci-fi movie of some sorts I mean just can you of some sorts I mean just can you of some sorts I mean just can you actually just Linger on the like the actually just Linger on the like the actually just Linger on the like the design of that thing because that's

design of that thing because that's design of that thing because that's another leap into something you probably another leap into something you probably another leap into something you probably haven't done it's a different kind of haven't done it's a different kind of haven't done it's a different kind of balancing yeah so let me I I'd love I balancing yeah so let me I I'd love I balancing yeah so let me I I'd love I love talking about the history of how a love talking about the history of how a love talking about the history of how a handle came about because it connects handle came about because it connects handle came about because it connects all of our robots actually all of our robots actually all of our robots actually so so so um I'm going to start with Atlas when we um I'm going to start with Atlas when we um I'm going to start with Atlas when we when we had Atlas getting fairly far when we had Atlas getting fairly far when we had Atlas getting fairly far along we wanted to understand I was along we wanted to understand I was along we wanted to understand I was telling you earlier the challenge of the telling you earlier the challenge of the telling you earlier the challenge of the human form is you have this Mass up high human form is you have this Mass up high human form is you have this Mass up high and balancing that inertia that mass up and balancing that inertia that mass up and balancing that inertia that mass up high is its own unique Challenge and so high is its own unique Challenge and so high is its own unique Challenge and so we started trying to get atlas to we started trying to get atlas to we started trying to get atlas to balance standing on one foot like on a balance standing on one foot like on a balance standing on one foot like on a balance beam using its arms like this balance beam using its arms like this balance beam using its arms like this and yeah you can do this I'm sure I can and yeah you can do this I'm sure I can and yeah you can do this I'm sure I can do this right like if you're walking a do this right like if you're walking a do this right like if you're walking a tightrope tightrope tightrope how do you do that balance how do you do that balance how do you do that balance so that's sort of you know controlling so that's sort of you know controlling so that's sort of you know controlling the inertia controlling the momentum of the inertia controlling the momentum of the inertia controlling the momentum of the robot the robot the robot we were starting to figure that out on we were starting to figure that out on we were starting to figure that out on Atlas Atlas Atlas and so our first concept of handle which and so our first concept of handle which and so our first concept of handle which was a robot that was going to be on two was a robot that was going to be on two was a robot that was going to be on two wheels so it had to balance wheels so it had to balance wheels so it had to balance but it was going to have a big long arm but it was going to have a big long arm but it was going to have a big long arm so it could reach a box at the top of a so it could reach a box at the top of a so it could reach a box at the top of a truck truck truck and it was gonna it needed yet another and it was gonna it needed yet another and it was gonna it needed yet another counterbalance a big tail to help it counterbalance a big tail to help it counterbalance a big tail to help it balance while it was using its arm balance while it was using its arm balance while it was using its arm so the reason why this robot sort of so the reason why this robot sort of so the reason why this robot sort of looks epic it some people said it looked looks epic it some people said it looked looks epic it some people said it looked like an ostrich or maybe an ostrich like an ostrich or maybe an ostrich like an ostrich or maybe an ostrich moving around moving around moving around was the wheels the Le it has legs so it was the wheels the Le it has legs so it was the wheels the Le it has legs so it can extend its legs

can extend its legs can extend its legs so it's wheels on legs we always wanted so it's wheels on legs we always wanted so it's wheels on legs we always wanted to build wheels on legs it had a tail to build wheels on legs it had a tail to build wheels on legs it had a tail and it had this arm and they're all and it had this arm and they're all and it had this arm and they're all moving simultaneously and in moving simultaneously and in moving simultaneously and in coordination to maintain balance because coordination to maintain balance because coordination to maintain balance because we had figured out the mathematics of we had figured out the mathematics of we had figured out the mathematics of doing this momentum control how to doing this momentum control how to doing this momentum control how to maintain that balance and so part of the maintain that balance and so part of the maintain that balance and so part of the reason why we built this two-legged reason why we built this two-legged reason why we built this two-legged robot was we had figured this thing out robot was we had figured this thing out robot was we had figured this thing out we wanted to see it in this kind of we wanted to see it in this kind of we wanted to see it in this kind of machine and we thought maybe this kind machine and we thought maybe this kind machine and we thought maybe this kind of machine would be good in a warehouse of machine would be good in a warehouse of machine would be good in a warehouse and so we built it and it's a beautiful and so we built it and it's a beautiful and so we built it and it's a beautiful machine it moves in a graceful way like machine it moves in a graceful way like machine it moves in a graceful way like nothing else we've built but it wasn't nothing else we've built but it wasn't nothing else we've built but it wasn't the right machine for a logistics the right machine for a logistics the right machine for a logistics application we decided it was too slow application we decided it was too slow application we decided it was too slow and couldn't pick boxes fast enough and couldn't pick boxes fast enough and couldn't pick boxes fast enough basically and it was doing beautifully basically and it was doing beautifully basically and it was doing beautifully with Elegance but it just wasn't with Elegance but it just wasn't with Elegance but it just wasn't efficient enough uh so we let it go yeah efficient enough uh so we let it go yeah efficient enough uh so we let it go yeah but I think we'll come back to that but I think we'll come back to that but I think we'll come back to that machine eventually the fact that it's machine eventually the fact that it's machine eventually the fact that it's possible the fact that he showed that possible the fact that he showed that possible the fact that he showed that you could do so many things at the same you could do so many things at the same you could do so many things at the same time in coordination that's so time in coordination that's so time in coordination that's so beautifully there's something there yeah beautifully there's something there yeah beautifully there's something there yeah that was a demonstration of what is that was a demonstration of what is that was a demonstration of what is possible possible possible basically we made a hard decision and basically we made a hard decision and basically we made a hard decision and this was really kind of a hard-nosed this was really kind of a hard-nosed this was really kind of a hard-nosed business decision it was it was it business decision it was it was it business decision it was it was it indicated us indicated us indicated us not doing it just for the beauty of the not doing it just for the beauty of the not doing it just for the beauty of the mathematics or the Curiosity but no we mathematics or the Curiosity but no we mathematics or the Curiosity but no we actually need to build a business that actually need to build a business that actually need to build a business that that could make money in the long run that could make money in the long run that could make money in the long run and so we ended up building stretch and so we ended up building stretch and so we ended up building stretch which has a big heavy base with a giant which has a big heavy base with a giant which has a big heavy base with a giant battery in the base of it that allows it battery in the base of it that allows it battery in the base of it that allows it to run for two two shifts 16 hours worth

to run for two two shifts 16 hours worth to run for two two shifts 16 hours worth of operation of operation of operation and that big battery is sort of helps it and that big battery is sort of helps it and that big battery is sort of helps it stay balanced right so you can move a 50 stay balanced right so you can move a 50 stay balanced right so you can move a 50 pound box around with its arm and not pound box around with its arm and not pound box around with its arm and not tip over um tip over um tip over um it's omnidirectional it can move in any it's omnidirectional it can move in any it's omnidirectional it can move in any direction so it has a nice suspension direction so it has a nice suspension direction so it has a nice suspension built into it so it can deal with built into it so it can deal with built into it so it can deal with you know gaps or things on the floor and you know gaps or things on the floor and you know gaps or things on the floor and roll over it but it's a that it's not a roll over it but it's a that it's not a roll over it but it's a that it's not a balancing robot it's a mobile robot arm balancing robot it's a mobile robot arm balancing robot it's a mobile robot arm that can work to carry it or pick or that can work to carry it or pick or that can work to carry it or pick or place a box up to 50 pounds anywhere in place a box up to 50 pounds anywhere in place a box up to 50 pounds anywhere in the warehouse the warehouse the warehouse from take a box from point A to point B from take a box from point A to point B from take a box from point A to point B anywhere yeah palletize de-palletize anywhere yeah palletize de-palletize anywhere yeah palletize de-palletize we're starting with unloading trucks we're starting with unloading trucks we're starting with unloading trucks because there's so many trucks and because there's so many trucks and because there's so many trucks and containers that where goods are shipped containers that where goods are shipped containers that where goods are shipped and it's a brutal job you know in the and it's a brutal job you know in the and it's a brutal job you know in the summer it can be 120 degrees inside that summer it can be 120 degrees inside that summer it can be 120 degrees inside that container people don't want to do that container people don't want to do that container people don't want to do that job job job um and it's back breaking labor right um and it's back breaking labor right um and it's back breaking labor right again these can be up to 50 pound boxes again these can be up to 50 pound boxes again these can be up to 50 pound boxes um and so um and so um and so we feel like this is a productivity we feel like this is a productivity we feel like this is a productivity enhancer and for the people who used to enhancer and for the people who used to enhancer and for the people who used to do that job unloading trucks do that job unloading trucks do that job unloading trucks they're actually operating the robot now they're actually operating the robot now they're actually operating the robot now and so by building robots that are easy and so by building robots that are easy and so by building robots that are easy to control to control to control and it doesn't take an advanced degree and it doesn't take an advanced degree and it doesn't take an advanced degree to manage to manage to manage you can become a robot operator and so you can become a robot operator and so you can become a robot operator and so as we we've introduced these robots to as we we've introduced these robots to as we we've introduced these robots to both DHL and mariskin Gap the warehouse both DHL and mariskin Gap the warehouse both DHL and mariskin Gap the warehouse workers who were doing that that manual workers who were doing that that manual workers who were doing that that manual labor are now the robot operators and so labor are now the robot operators and so labor are now the robot operators and so we see this as ultimately a benefit to we see this as ultimately a benefit to we see this as ultimately a benefit to them as well them as well them as well can you say how much stretch cost

um not yet uh but I will say that uh we um not yet uh but I will say that uh we when we engage with our customers when we engage with our customers when we engage with our customers they'll be able to see a return on they'll be able to see a return on they'll be able to see a return on investment in typically two years okay investment in typically two years okay investment in typically two years okay so that's something you're constantly so that's something you're constantly so that's something you're constantly thinking about how yeah and I suppose thinking about how yeah and I suppose thinking about how yeah and I suppose you have to do the same kind of thinking you have to do the same kind of thinking you have to do the same kind of thinking with spot so it seems like we've with spot so it seems like we've with spot so it seems like we've stretched the application is stretched the application is stretched the application is like directly obvious yeah to slam dunk like directly obvious yeah to slam dunk like directly obvious yeah to slam dunk yeah and so you can you have a little yeah and so you can you have a little yeah and so you can you have a little more flexibility well I think we know more flexibility well I think we know more flexibility well I think we know the target we know what we're going the target we know what we're going the target we know what we're going after yeah and with spot it took us a after yeah and with spot it took us a after yeah and with spot it took us a while to figure out what we were going while to figure out what we were going while to figure out what we were going after well let me return to that after well let me return to that after well let me return to that question about uh question about uh question about uh maybe the conversation you were having maybe the conversation you were having maybe the conversation you were having a while ago with Larry Page maybe a while ago with Larry Page maybe a while ago with Larry Page maybe looking to the longer future looking to the longer future looking to the longer future of uh social robotics of using spot to of uh social robotics of using spot to of uh social robotics of using spot to connect with human beings perhaps in the connect with human beings perhaps in the connect with human beings perhaps in the home do you see a future there if we home do you see a future there if we home do you see a future there if we were to sort of were to sort of were to sort of hypothesize or dream about a future hypothesize or dream about a future hypothesize or dream about a future where a spot like robots are in the home where a spot like robots are in the home where a spot like robots are in the home as pets a social robot we definitely as pets a social robot we definitely as pets a social robot we definitely think about it and and we would like to think about it and and we would like to think about it and and we would like to get there get there get there uh we think the pathway to getting there uh we think the pathway to getting there uh we think the pathway to getting there is you know likely through these is you know likely through these is you know likely through these industrial applications industrial applications industrial applications and then Mass manufacturing you know and then Mass manufacturing you know and then Mass manufacturing you know let's figure out what how to melt how to let's figure out what how to melt how to let's figure out what how to melt how to build the robots how to make the build the robots how to make the build the robots how to make the software so they can really do a broad software so they can really do a broad software so they can really do a broad set of skills that's going to take set of skills that's going to take set of skills that's going to take real investment to get there performance real investment to get there performance real investment to get there performance first right the principle of the company first right the principle of the company first right the principle of the company has always been really make the robots has always been really make the robots has always been really make the robots do useful stuff do useful stuff do useful stuff and so you know the the and so you know the the and so you know the the social robot companies that tried to

social robot companies that tried to social robot companies that tried to start Someplace Else by just making a start Someplace Else by just making a start Someplace Else by just making a cute interaction mostly they haven't cute interaction mostly they haven't cute interaction mostly they haven't survived survived survived and so we think the utility and so we think the utility and so we think the utility really needs to come first and that really needs to come first and that really needs to come first and that means you have to Heart solve some of means you have to Heart solve some of means you have to Heart solve some of these hard problems and so to get there these hard problems and so to get there these hard problems and so to get there we're going to go through the design and we're going to go through the design and we're going to go through the design and software development in industrial and software development in industrial and software development in industrial and then that's eventually going to let you then that's eventually going to let you then that's eventually going to let you reach a scale that could then be reach a scale that could then be reach a scale that could then be addressed to a commercial a consumer addressed to a commercial a consumer addressed to a commercial a consumer level Market level Market level Market and so yeah maybe we'll be able to build and so yeah maybe we'll be able to build and so yeah maybe we'll be able to build a smaller spot with an arm that could a smaller spot with an arm that could a smaller spot with an arm that could really go get your beer for you really go get your beer for you really go get your beer for you but there's things we need to figure out but there's things we need to figure out but there's things we need to figure out still how to safely really safely if still how to safely really safely if still how to safely really safely if you're going to be interacting with you're going to be interacting with you're going to be interacting with children you better be safe and right children you better be safe and right children you better be safe and right now we we count on a little bit of now we we count on a little bit of now we we count on a little bit of standoff distance between the robot and standoff distance between the robot and standoff distance between the robot and people so that you don't pinch a finger people so that you don't pinch a finger people so that you don't pinch a finger you know in the robot you know in the robot you know in the robot so you've got a lot of things you need so you've got a lot of things you need so you've got a lot of things you need to go solve before you jump to that to go solve before you jump to that to go solve before you jump to that consumer level product well there's a consumer level product well there's a consumer level product well there's a kind of trade-off in safety because it kind of trade-off in safety because it kind of trade-off in safety because it feels like in the home feels like in the home feels like in the home you can fall you can fall you can fall like you're you don't have to be as good like you're you don't have to be as good like you're you don't have to be as good at like you're allowed to fail in at like you're allowed to fail in at like you're allowed to fail in different ways in more ways as long as different ways in more ways as long as different ways in more ways as long as it's safe for the humans so it just it's safe for the humans so it just it's safe for the humans so it just feels like an easier problem to solve feels like an easier problem to solve feels like an easier problem to solve because it feels like in the factory because it feels like in the factory because it feels like in the factory you're not allowed to fail you're not allowed to fail you're not allowed to fail that may be true that may be true that may be true um but I also think the variety of um but I also think the variety of um but I also think the variety of things a consumer level robot would be

things a consumer level robot would be things a consumer level robot would be expected to do will also be quite broad expected to do will also be quite broad expected to do will also be quite broad yeah and they're going to want to get yeah and they're going to want to get yeah and they're going to want to get the beer and know the difference between the beer and know the difference between the beer and know the difference between the beer and a Coca-Cola or my snack the beer and a Coca-Cola or my snack the beer and a Coca-Cola or my snack and or you know they're all going to and or you know they're all going to and or you know they're all going to want to clean up the dishes want to clean up the dishes want to clean up the dishes uh you know from the table without uh you know from the table without uh you know from the table without breaking them breaking them breaking them those are pretty complex tasks and so those are pretty complex tasks and so those are pretty complex tasks and so there's there's still work to be done there's there's still work to be done there's there's still work to be done there so to push back on that here's there so to push back on that here's there so to push back on that here's what application I think they'll be very what application I think they'll be very what application I think they'll be very interesting I think the application of interesting I think the application of interesting I think the application of being a pet a friend so like no tasks being a pet a friend so like no tasks being a pet a friend so like no tasks foreign foreign foreign just be cute because I not cute not cute just be cute because I not cute not cute just be cute because I not cute not cute like that dog is more a dog is more than like that dog is more a dog is more than like that dog is more a dog is more than just cute a dog is a friend is a just cute a dog is a friend is a just cute a dog is a friend is a companion there's something about just companion there's something about just companion there's something about just having interacted with them and maybe having interacted with them and maybe having interacted with them and maybe because I'm hanging out alone with robot because I'm hanging out alone with robot because I'm hanging out alone with robot dogs a little too much but like there's dogs a little too much but like there's dogs a little too much but like there's a a a there's a connection there and it feels there's a connection there and it feels there's a connection there and it feels like that connection is not like that connection is not like that connection is not should not be disregarded No it should should not be disregarded No it should should not be disregarded No it should not be disregarded not be disregarded not be disregarded robots that can somehow communicate robots that can somehow communicate robots that can somehow communicate through their physical gestures are through their physical gestures are through their physical gestures are you're going to be more attached to in you're going to be more attached to in you're going to be more attached to in the long run do you remember IBO the the long run do you remember IBO the the long run do you remember IBO the Sony IBO yeah they sold over a hundred Sony IBO yeah they sold over a hundred Sony IBO yeah they sold over a hundred thousand of those maybe 150 000.

thousand of those maybe 150 000. thousand of those maybe 150 000. you know what probably wasn't considered you know what probably wasn't considered you know what probably wasn't considered a a a successful product for them successful product for them successful product for them they suspended that eventually and then they suspended that eventually and then they suspended that eventually and then they brought it back so he brought it they brought it back so he brought it they brought it back so he brought it back back back and people definitely you know treated and people definitely you know treated and people definitely you know treated this as a as a pet as a as a companion this as a as a pet as a as a companion this as a as a pet as a as a companion um and I think that will come around um and I think that will come around um and I think that will come around again again again um will you get away without having any um will you get away without having any um will you get away without having any other utility other utility other utility maybe in a world where we can really maybe in a world where we can really maybe in a world where we can really talk to our simple little pet because talk to our simple little pet because talk to our simple little pet because you know chat GPT or some other you know chat GPT or some other you know chat GPT or some other generative AI has made it possible for generative AI has made it possible for generative AI has made it possible for you to really talk and what seems like a you to really talk and what seems like a you to really talk and what seems like a meaningful way maybe that'll open the meaningful way maybe that'll open the meaningful way maybe that'll open the social robot social robot social robot up again up again up again um um um that's probably not a path we're going that's probably not a path we're going that's probably not a path we're going to go down because again we're so to go down because again we're so to go down because again we're so focused on performance and utility focused on performance and utility focused on performance and utility we can add those other things also but we can add those other things also but we can add those other things also but we really want to start from that we really want to start from that we really want to start from that Foundation of utility I think yeah but I Foundation of utility I think yeah but I Foundation of utility I think yeah but I I also want to predict that you're wrong I also want to predict that you're wrong I also want to predict that you're wrong on that so which is that the very path on that so which is that the very path on that so which is that the very path you're taking which is creating a great you're taking which is creating a great you're taking which is creating a great robot platform will very easily take a robot platform will very easily take a robot platform will very easily take a leap to adding uh leap to adding uh leap to adding uh capability maybe gpt5 and there's just capability maybe gpt5 and there's just capability maybe gpt5 and there's just so many open source Alternatives you so many open source Alternatives you so many open source Alternatives you could just plop that on top of spot and could just plop that on top of spot and could just plop that on top of spot and because you have this robust platform because you have this robust platform because you have this robust platform and you're figuring out how to mass and you're figuring out how to mass and you're figuring out how to mass manufacture it and how to drive the cost manufacture it and how to drive the cost manufacture it and how to drive the cost down and how to make it you know down and how to make it you know down and how to make it you know reliable all those kinds of things it'll

reliable all those kinds of things it'll reliable all those kinds of things it'll be a natural transition to where just be a natural transition to where just be a natural transition to where just adding tragic Beauty all right I do adding tragic Beauty all right I do adding tragic Beauty all right I do think that think that think that being able to verbally Converse or even being able to verbally Converse or even being able to verbally Converse or even Converse through through gestures you Converse through through gestures you Converse through through gestures you know part of part of these learning know part of part of these learning know part of part of these learning models is that you know you can now Look models is that you know you can now Look models is that you know you can now Look at video and image imagery and Associate at video and image imagery and Associate at video and image imagery and Associate you know intent with that those will all you know intent with that those will all you know intent with that those will all help in the communication between robots help in the communication between robots help in the communication between robots and people for sure and that's going to and people for sure and that's going to and people for sure and that's going to happen obviously more quickly than any happen obviously more quickly than any happen obviously more quickly than any of us were expecting I mean what else do of us were expecting I mean what else do of us were expecting I mean what else do you want from life you want from life you want from life should be here should be here should be here and then just talk about this the and then just talk about this the and then just talk about this the state of the world I mean there's a deep loneliness within I mean there's a deep loneliness within all of us and I think all of us and I think all of us and I think uh a beer and a good chat solves so much uh a beer and a good chat solves so much uh a beer and a good chat solves so much of it or take takes us a long way to of it or take takes us a long way to of it or take takes us a long way to solving uh it'll be interesting to see solving uh it'll be interesting to see solving uh it'll be interesting to see um you know when um you know when um you know when when a generative AI can give you that when a generative AI can give you that when a generative AI can give you that warm feeling that you connected warm feeling that you connected warm feeling that you connected you know and that oh yeah you remember you know and that oh yeah you remember you know and that oh yeah you remember me you're my friend you know we have a me you're my friend you know we have a me you're my friend you know we have a history history history you know that history matters right you know that history matters right you know that history matters right memory of joint like memory of yeah memory of joint like memory of yeah memory of joint like memory of yeah having witnessed I mean that's what having witnessed I mean that's what having witnessed I mean that's what friendship that's what connection that's friendship that's what connection that's friendship that's what connection that's what love is in in many cases some of what love is in in many cases some of what love is in in many cases some of the deepest friendships you have is the deepest friendships you have is the deepest friendships you have is having gone through a difficult time having gone through a difficult time having gone through a difficult time together and having a shared memory of together and having a shared memory of together and having a shared memory of an amazing time or a difficult time

an amazing time or a difficult time an amazing time or a difficult time and kind of and kind of and kind of that memory creating this like that memory creating this like that memory creating this like Foundation based on which you can then Foundation based on which you can then Foundation based on which you can then experience the world together the silly experience the world together the silly experience the world together the silly the mundane stuff of day-to-day is the mundane stuff of day-to-day is the mundane stuff of day-to-day is somehow built on a foundation of having somehow built on a foundation of having somehow built on a foundation of having gone through some in the past and gone through some in the past and gone through some in the past and the the current systems are not the the current systems are not the the current systems are not personalized in that way but I think personalized in that way but I think personalized in that way but I think that's a technical problem not uh some that's a technical problem not uh some that's a technical problem not uh some kind of fundamental limitation so I'll kind of fundamental limitation so I'll kind of fundamental limitation so I'll combine that with an embodied robot like combine that with an embodied robot like combine that with an embodied robot like spot which already has magic in its spot which already has magic in its spot which already has magic in its movement I think uh it's a very movement I think uh it's a very movement I think uh it's a very interesting possibility of what where interesting possibility of what where interesting possibility of what where that takes us but of course you have to that takes us but of course you have to that takes us but of course you have to build that on top of a company that's build that on top of a company that's build that on top of a company that's making money making money making money with real application with real with real application with real with real application with real customers and with robots that are safe customers and with robots that are safe customers and with robots that are safe and at work and reliable and uh in and at work and reliable and uh in and at work and reliable and uh in manufactured scale manufactured scale manufactured scale and I think we're in a unique position and I think we're in a unique position and I think we're in a unique position in that uh because of our investors in that uh because of our investors in that uh because of our investors primarily Hyundai but also SoftBank primarily Hyundai but also SoftBank primarily Hyundai but also SoftBank still owns 20 of us still owns 20 of us still owns 20 of us um they don't they're not totally um they don't they're not totally um they don't they're not totally fixated on fixated on fixated on driving us to profitability as soon as driving us to profitability as soon as driving us to profitability as soon as possible that's not the goal the goal possible that's not the goal the goal possible that's not the goal the goal really is a longer term vision of really is a longer term vision of really is a longer term vision of creating creating creating you know what does mobility mean in the you know what does mobility mean in the you know what does mobility mean in the future what are how is this mobile robot future what are how is this mobile robot future what are how is this mobile robot technology going to influence technology going to influence technology going to influence um us can we and can we shape that and um us can we and can we shape that and um us can we and can we shape that and they want both and so I we are as a they want both and so I we are as a they want both and so I we are as a company are trying to strike that company are trying to strike that company are trying to strike that balance between let's build a business balance between let's build a business balance between let's build a business that makes money

that makes money that makes money I've been describing that to my own team I've been describing that to my own team I've been describing that to my own team as as as uh self-destination if I want to if I uh self-destination if I want to if I uh self-destination if I want to if I want to drive my own ship we need to want to drive my own ship we need to want to drive my own ship we need to have a business that's profitable in the have a business that's profitable in the have a business that's profitable in the end otherwise somebody else is going to end otherwise somebody else is going to end otherwise somebody else is going to drive the ship for us drive the ship for us drive the ship for us so that's really important so that's really important so that's really important but we're going to retain but we're going to retain but we're going to retain the aspiration that we're going to build the aspiration that we're going to build the aspiration that we're going to build the next generation of Technology at the the next generation of Technology at the the next generation of Technology at the same time and the real trick will be if same time and the real trick will be if same time and the real trick will be if we can do both we can do both we can do both uh speaking of ships uh speaking of ships uh speaking of ships uh let me ask you about a competitor uh let me ask you about a competitor uh let me ask you about a competitor and somebody's become a friend and somebody's become a friend and somebody's become a friend so Elon Musk Contessa have announced so Elon Musk Contessa have announced so Elon Musk Contessa have announced have been in the early days of building have been in the early days of building have been in the early days of building a humanoid robot how does that change a humanoid robot how does that change a humanoid robot how does that change the landscape of the landscape of the landscape of of your work so so there's sort of from of your work so so there's sort of from of your work so so there's sort of from the outside perspective it seems like the outside perspective it seems like the outside perspective it seems like well from a fan as a fan of Robotics it well from a fan as a fan of Robotics it well from a fan as a fan of Robotics it just seems exciting all right very just seems exciting all right very just seems exciting all right very exciting right when when Elon speaks exciting right when when Elon speaks exciting right when when Elon speaks people listen people listen people listen and so uh it suddenly brought a bright and so uh it suddenly brought a bright and so uh it suddenly brought a bright light onto the work that we've been light onto the work that we've been light onto the work that we've been doing you know for over a decade doing you know for over a decade doing you know for over a decade and and and um and I think that's only going to help um and I think that's only going to help um and I think that's only going to help and in fact what we've seen is that uh and in fact what we've seen is that uh and in fact what we've seen is that uh in addition to Tesla uh we're seeing a in addition to Tesla uh we're seeing a in addition to Tesla uh we're seeing a proliferation of uh robotic companies proliferation of uh robotic companies proliferation of uh robotic companies arise including humanoid yes oh well arise including humanoid yes oh well arise including humanoid yes oh well yeah so and um interestingly many of yeah so and um interestingly many of yeah so and um interestingly many of them uh as they're you know raising them uh as they're you know raising them uh as they're you know raising money for example will claim whether or

money for example will claim whether or money for example will claim whether or not they have a former Boston Dynamics not they have a former Boston Dynamics not they have a former Boston Dynamics employee on their staff as a criteria employee on their staff as a criteria employee on their staff as a criteria yeah that's true that's uh I I I would yeah that's true that's uh I I I would yeah that's true that's uh I I I would do that as a company yeah for sure yeah do that as a company yeah for sure yeah do that as a company yeah for sure yeah so it shows you're legit yeah so you so it shows you're legit yeah so you so it shows you're legit yeah so you know what it's bring it has brung a know what it's bring it has brung a know what it's bring it has brung a tremendous validation to what we're tremendous validation to what we're tremendous validation to what we're doing doing doing and excitement uh competitive juices are and excitement uh competitive juices are and excitement uh competitive juices are flowing you know the whole thing so uh flowing you know the whole thing so uh flowing you know the whole thing so uh it's all good it's all good it's all good Eli is also Eli is also Eli is also kind of kind of kind of stated stated stated that uh that uh that uh you know maybe he implied that the you know maybe he implied that the you know maybe he implied that the problem is solvable in your term which problem is solvable in your term which problem is solvable in your term which is a low-cost humanoid robot that's able is a low-cost humanoid robot that's able is a low-cost humanoid robot that's able to do that's a relatively General use to do that's a relatively General use to do that's a relatively General use case robot case robot case robot so um I think Elon is known for sort of so um I think Elon is known for sort of so um I think Elon is known for sort of setting these kinds of incredible setting these kinds of incredible setting these kinds of incredible ambitious goals ambitious goals ambitious goals um maybe missing deadlines but actually um maybe missing deadlines but actually um maybe missing deadlines but actually pushing not just the particular team he pushing not just the particular team he pushing not just the particular team he leads but the entire world leads but the entire world leads but the entire world to like accomplishing those do you see to like accomplishing those do you see to like accomplishing those do you see you see Boston Dynamics in the near you see Boston Dynamics in the near you see Boston Dynamics in the near future being pushed in that kind of way future being pushed in that kind of way future being pushed in that kind of way like this excitement of competition kind like this excitement of competition kind like this excitement of competition kind of of of um um um pushing Atlas maybe to uh do more cool pushing Atlas maybe to uh do more cool pushing Atlas maybe to uh do more cool stuff trying to drive the cost of Atlas stuff trying to drive the cost of Atlas stuff trying to drive the cost of Atlas down perhaps or um I mean I guess I want down perhaps or um I mean I guess I want down perhaps or um I mean I guess I want to I want to ask if there's to I want to ask if there's to I want to ask if there's some kind of exciting

some kind of exciting some kind of exciting uh energy in Boston Dynamics uh due to uh energy in Boston Dynamics uh due to uh energy in Boston Dynamics uh due to this a little bit of competition oh yeah this a little bit of competition oh yeah this a little bit of competition oh yeah definitely definitely definitely um um um when we released our most recent video when we released our most recent video when we released our most recent video of Atlas you know I think you'd seen it of Atlas you know I think you'd seen it of Atlas you know I think you'd seen it the scaffolding and throwing the box of the scaffolding and throwing the box of the scaffolding and throwing the box of Tools around and then doing the flip at Tools around and then doing the flip at Tools around and then doing the flip at the end yeah we were trying to show the the end yeah we were trying to show the the end yeah we were trying to show the world that not only can we do this world that not only can we do this world that not only can we do this parkour Mobility thing but we can pick parkour Mobility thing but we can pick parkour Mobility thing but we can pick up and move heavy things up and move heavy things up and move heavy things because uh if you're going to work in a because uh if you're going to work in a because uh if you're going to work in a manufacturing environment that's what manufacturing environment that's what manufacturing environment that's what you got to be able to do and for the you got to be able to do and for the you got to be able to do and for the reasons I explained to you earlier it's reasons I explained to you earlier it's reasons I explained to you earlier it's not trivial to do so you know changing not trivial to do so you know changing not trivial to do so you know changing the center of mass uh uh you know by the center of mass uh uh you know by the center of mass uh uh you know by picking up a 50 pound picking up a 50 pound picking up a 50 pound black you know for a robot that weighs black you know for a robot that weighs black you know for a robot that weighs 150 pounds 150 pounds 150 pounds that's a lot to accommodate so we're that's a lot to accommodate so we're that's a lot to accommodate so we're trying to show that we can do that and trying to show that we can do that and trying to show that we can do that and um so it's totally been energizing you um so it's totally been energizing you um so it's totally been energizing you know we see know we see know we see the next phase of Atlas being more the next phase of Atlas being more the next phase of Atlas being more dexterous hands that can manipulate and dexterous hands that can manipulate and dexterous hands that can manipulate and grab more things that we're going to grab more things that we're going to grab more things that we're going to start by moving big things around that start by moving big things around that start by moving big things around that are heavy and that affect balance and are heavy and that affect balance and are heavy and that affect balance and why is that well really tiny dexterous why is that well really tiny dexterous why is that well really tiny dexterous things probably are going to be hard for things probably are going to be hard for things probably are going to be hard for a while yet and you know maybe you could a while yet and you know maybe you could a while yet and you know maybe you could go build a special purpose go build a special purpose go build a special purpose robot arm you know for for stuffing you robot arm you know for for stuffing you robot arm you know for for stuffing you know chips into Electronics boards but know chips into Electronics boards but know chips into Electronics boards but we don't really want to do really fine

we don't really want to do really fine we don't really want to do really fine work like that I think more coursework work like that I think more coursework work like that I think more coursework where you're using two hands to pick up where you're using two hands to pick up where you're using two hands to pick up and balance an unwieldy thing maybe in a and balance an unwieldy thing maybe in a and balance an unwieldy thing maybe in a manufacturing environment maybe in a manufacturing environment maybe in a manufacturing environment maybe in a construction environment those are the construction environment those are the construction environment those are the things that we think robots are going to things that we think robots are going to things that we think robots are going to be able to do with the level of be able to do with the level of be able to do with the level of dexterity that they're going to have in dexterity that they're going to have in dexterity that they're going to have in the next few years and that's the that's the next few years and that's the that's the next few years and that's the that's where we're headed and and I think and where we're headed and and I think and where we're headed and and I think and you know Elon has seen the same thing you know Elon has seen the same thing you know Elon has seen the same thing right he's talking about using the right he's talking about using the right he's talking about using the robots in a manufacturing environment we robots in a manufacturing environment we robots in a manufacturing environment we think there's something very interesting think there's something very interesting think there's something very interesting there about having this two-armed robot there about having this two-armed robot there about having this two-armed robot because when you have two arms you can because when you have two arms you can because when you have two arms you can transfer a thing from one hand to the transfer a thing from one hand to the transfer a thing from one hand to the other you can turn it around you know other you can turn it around you know other you can turn it around you know you can you can reorient it in a way you can you can reorient it in a way you can you can reorient it in a way that you can't do it if you just have that you can't do it if you just have that you can't do it if you just have one hand on it and so there's a lot that one hand on it and so there's a lot that one hand on it and so there's a lot that extra arm brings to the table so I think extra arm brings to the table so I think extra arm brings to the table so I think in terms of mission in terms of mission in terms of mission you you mentioned Boston and Amex really you you mentioned Boston and Amex really you you mentioned Boston and Amex really wants to see what are the what's the wants to see what are the what's the wants to see what are the what's the limits of what's possible and so the limits of what's possible and so the limits of what's possible and so the cost comes second cost comes second cost comes second or it's a component but first figure out or it's a component but first figure out or it's a component but first figure out what are the limitations I think with what are the limitations I think with what are the limitations I think with Elon he's really dragging the cost down Elon he's really dragging the cost down Elon he's really dragging the cost down is there some inspiration some lessons is there some inspiration some lessons is there some inspiration some lessons you see there you see there you see there um of the challenge of driving the cost um of the challenge of driving the cost um of the challenge of driving the cost down especially with Atlas with a down especially with Atlas with a down especially with Atlas with a humanoid robot well I think the thing humanoid robot well I think the thing humanoid robot well I think the thing that he's certainly been learning by that he's certainly been learning by that he's certainly been learning by building car factories is what that building car factories is what that building car factories is what that looks like in scaling looks like in scaling looks like in scaling um by scaling you can get efficiencies um by scaling you can get efficiencies um by scaling you can get efficiencies that drive costs down very well and uh that drive costs down very well and uh that drive costs down very well and uh and the smart thing that you know they

and the smart thing that you know they and the smart thing that you know they have in their favor is that you know have in their favor is that you know have in their favor is that you know they know how to manufacture they know they know how to manufacture they know they know how to manufacture they know how to build electric motors they know how to build electric motors they know how to build electric motors they know how to build uh you know computers and how to build uh you know computers and how to build uh you know computers and vision systems so there's a lot of vision systems so there's a lot of vision systems so there's a lot of overlap between modern overlap between modern overlap between modern Automotive companies Automotive companies Automotive companies and robots and robots and robots but hey but hey but hey we have a modern robotic I mean that we have a modern robotic I mean that we have a modern robotic I mean that automotive company behind us as well automotive company behind us as well automotive company behind us as well so uh bring it on who's doing pretty so uh bring it on who's doing pretty so uh bring it on who's doing pretty well right the electric vehicles from well right the electric vehicles from well right the electric vehicles from Hyundai are doing pretty well Hyundai are doing pretty well Hyundai are doing pretty well I love it uh so how much so we've talked I love it uh so how much so we've talked I love it uh so how much so we've talked about some of the low level controls about some of the low level controls about some of the low level controls some of the incredible stuff that's some of the incredible stuff that's some of the incredible stuff that's going on and basic perception going on and basic perception going on and basic perception but how much do you see in currently in but how much do you see in currently in but how much do you see in currently in the future of Boston Dynamics sort of the future of Boston Dynamics sort of the future of Boston Dynamics sort of more higher level machine learning more higher level machine learning more higher level machine learning applications do you see customers adding applications do you see customers adding applications do you see customers adding on those capabilities or do you see on those capabilities or do you see on those capabilities or do you see Boston Dynamics doing that in-house Boston Dynamics doing that in-house Boston Dynamics doing that in-house some kinds of things we really believe some kinds of things we really believe some kinds of things we really believe ought are probably going to be ought are probably going to be ought are probably going to be more broadly available maybe even more broadly available maybe even more broadly available maybe even commoditized commoditized commoditized you know using a machine learning like a you know using a machine learning like a you know using a machine learning like a vision algorithm so a robot can vision algorithm so a robot can vision algorithm so a robot can recognize something in the environment recognize something in the environment recognize something in the environment that ought to be something you can just that ought to be something you can just that ought to be something you can just download like I'm going to a new download like I'm going to a new download like I'm going to a new environment I have a new kind of door environment I have a new kind of door environment I have a new kind of door handle or piece of equipment I want to handle or piece of equipment I want to handle or piece of equipment I want to inspect you ought to be able to just inspect you ought to be able to just inspect you ought to be able to just download that and I think people besides download that and I think people besides download that and I think people besides Boston Dynamics will provide that and Boston Dynamics will provide that and Boston Dynamics will provide that and we've actually built an API that lets we've actually built an API that lets we've actually built an API that lets people add these uh Vision algorithms to

people add these uh Vision algorithms to people add these uh Vision algorithms to spot spot spot and we're currently working with some and we're currently working with some and we're currently working with some Partners who are providing that Partners who are providing that Partners who are providing that um levitas is an example of a small um levitas is an example of a small um levitas is an example of a small provider who's giving us software for provider who's giving us software for provider who's giving us software for reading gauges reading gauges reading gauges um and actually another partner in um and actually another partner in um and actually another partner in Europe reply is doing the same thing Europe reply is doing the same thing Europe reply is doing the same thing so we see that we see It ultimately uh so we see that we see It ultimately uh so we see that we see It ultimately uh an ecosystem of providers doing stuff an ecosystem of providers doing stuff an ecosystem of providers doing stuff like that I and I I think ultimately like that I and I I think ultimately like that I and I I think ultimately you might even be able to do the same you might even be able to do the same you might even be able to do the same thing with behaviors so this technology thing with behaviors so this technology thing with behaviors so this technology will also be brought to bear on will also be brought to bear on will also be brought to bear on controlling the robot the the Motions of controlling the robot the the Motions of controlling the robot the the Motions of the robot and you know we're using the robot and you know we're using the robot and you know we're using learning reinforcement learning to learning reinforcement learning to learning reinforcement learning to develop develop develop algorithms for both Locomotion and algorithms for both Locomotion and algorithms for both Locomotion and manipulation manipulation manipulation and ultimately this is going to mean you and ultimately this is going to mean you and ultimately this is going to mean you can you can add new behaviors to a robot can you can add new behaviors to a robot can you can add new behaviors to a robot you know quickly you know quickly you know quickly and uh that could potentially be done and uh that could potentially be done and uh that could potentially be done outside of Boston Dynamics right now outside of Boston Dynamics right now outside of Boston Dynamics right now that's all internal to us I think I that's all internal to us I think I that's all internal to us I think I think you need to understand think you need to understand think you need to understand at a deep level you know at a deep level you know at a deep level you know um the robot control to do that but um the robot control to do that but um the robot control to do that but eventually that could be outside but eventually that could be outside but eventually that could be outside but it's certainly a place where these these it's certainly a place where these these it's certainly a place where these these approaches are going to be brought to approaches are going to be brought to approaches are going to be brought to bear in robotics so reinforcement bear in robotics so reinforcement bear in robotics so reinforcement learning is part of the process today so learning is part of the process today so learning is part of the process today so you do use reinforcement learning yes you do use reinforcement learning yes you do use reinforcement learning yes foreign foreign foreign so there's uh increasing levels of so there's uh increasing levels of so there's uh increasing levels of learning with these robots yes learning with these robots yes learning with these robots yes and that's for both for uh for and that's for both for uh for and that's for both for uh for Locomotion for manipulation and Locomotion for manipulation and Locomotion for manipulation and for perception yes

for perception yes for perception yes well what do you think in general about well what do you think in general about well what do you think in general about the all the exciting advancements of uh the all the exciting advancements of uh the all the exciting advancements of uh Transformer uh neural networks Transformer uh neural networks Transformer uh neural networks most most most beautifully uh Illustrated through the beautifully uh Illustrated through the beautifully uh Illustrated through the large language models like gpt4 like everybody else we're all you know like everybody else we're all you know I'm I'm surprised at uh how much uh how I'm I'm surprised at uh how much uh how I'm I'm surprised at uh how much uh how far they've come far they've come far they've come um I'm a little bit nervous about the um I'm a little bit nervous about the um I'm a little bit nervous about the there's anxiety around them obviously there's anxiety around them obviously there's anxiety around them obviously for I think good reasons right for I think good reasons right for I think good reasons right disinformation is a a curse that's a an disinformation is a a curse that's a an disinformation is a a curse that's a an unintended consequence of social media unintended consequence of social media unintended consequence of social media that could be that could be that could be exacerbated with these tools so if you exacerbated with these tools so if you exacerbated with these tools so if you use them to deploy this information it use them to deploy this information it use them to deploy this information it could be a real risk could be a real risk could be a real risk um but I also think that the risks um but I also think that the risks um but I also think that the risks associated with these kinds of models associated with these kinds of models associated with these kinds of models don't have a whole lot to do with the don't have a whole lot to do with the don't have a whole lot to do with the way we're going to use them in our way we're going to use them in our way we're going to use them in our robots if I'm using a robot robots if I'm using a robot robots if I'm using a robot I'm building a robot to do you know a I'm building a robot to do you know a I'm building a robot to do you know a manual task of some sort manual task of some sort manual task of some sort um I can judge very easily is it doing um I can judge very easily is it doing um I can judge very easily is it doing the task I asked it to is it doing it the task I asked it to is it doing it the task I asked it to is it doing it correctly there's sort of a a built-in correctly there's sort of a a built-in correctly there's sort of a a built-in mechanism for judging is that is it mechanism for judging is that is it mechanism for judging is that is it doing the right thing did it doing the right thing did it doing the right thing did it successfully do the task yeah physical successfully do the task yeah physical successfully do the task yeah physical reality is a good verifier it's a good reality is a good verifier it's a good reality is a good verifier it's a good verifier that's exactly it whereas if

verifier that's exactly it whereas if verifier that's exactly it whereas if you're asking for yeah I don't know you're asking for yeah I don't know you're asking for yeah I don't know you're trying to ask a theoretical you're trying to ask a theoretical you're trying to ask a theoretical question in chat GPT question in chat GPT question in chat GPT it could be true or it may not be true it could be true or it may not be true it could be true or it may not be true and it's hard to have that verifier what and it's hard to have that verifier what and it's hard to have that verifier what what is that truth that you're comparing what is that truth that you're comparing what is that truth that you're comparing against whereas in physical reality you against whereas in physical reality you against whereas in physical reality you know the truth know the truth know the truth and this is an important difference and and this is an important difference and and this is an important difference and um so I'm not um so I'm not um so I'm not I think there is reason to be a little I think there is reason to be a little I think there is reason to be a little bit concerned about bit concerned about bit concerned about um you know how these tools large um you know how these tools large um you know how these tools large language models could be used but I'm language models could be used but I'm language models could be used but I'm not very worried about how they're going not very worried about how they're going not very worried about how they're going to be used to be used to be used well how learning algorithms in general well how learning algorithms in general well how learning algorithms in general are going to be used on robotics it's are going to be used on robotics it's are going to be used on robotics it's it's really a different application it's really a different application it's really a different application that has different ways of verifying that has different ways of verifying that has different ways of verifying what's going on well the nice thing what's going on well the nice thing what's going on well the nice thing about language models is that I about language models is that I about language models is that I ultimately see ultimately see ultimately see I'm really excited about the possibility I'm really excited about the possibility I'm really excited about the possibility of having conversations with spot yeah of having conversations with spot yeah of having conversations with spot yeah uh there's no I would say negative uh there's no I would say negative uh there's no I would say negative consequences to that but just increasing consequences to that but just increasing consequences to that but just increasing the bandwidth in the variety of ways you the bandwidth in the variety of ways you the bandwidth in the variety of ways you can communicate with this uh particular can communicate with this uh particular can communicate with this uh particular robot so you could communicate visually robot so you could communicate visually robot so you could communicate visually you can communicate through some you can communicate through some you can communicate through some interface and to be able to communicate interface and to be able to communicate interface and to be able to communicate verbally again with the beer and so on verbally again with the beer and so on verbally again with the beer and so on um I think that's really exciting to um I think that's really exciting to um I think that's really exciting to make that much much easier we have this make that much much easier we have this make that much much easier we have this partner levitas that's adding the vision partner levitas that's adding the vision partner levitas that's adding the vision algorithms for daydreading for us they algorithms for daydreading for us they algorithms for daydreading for us they just just this week I saw a demo where just just this week I saw a demo where just just this week I saw a demo where they hooked up you know a language tool they hooked up you know a language tool they hooked up you know a language tool to spot and they're talking a spot to

to spot and they're talking a spot to to spot and they're talking a spot to give example yeah can you tell me about give example yeah can you tell me about give example yeah can you tell me about the Boston Dynamics AI Institute what is the Boston Dynamics AI Institute what is the Boston Dynamics AI Institute what is it and what is its mission it and what is its mission it and what is its mission so it's a separate organization uh the so it's a separate organization uh the so it's a separate organization uh the Boston Amex artificial intelligence Boston Amex artificial intelligence Boston Amex artificial intelligence Institute Institute Institute and it's led by Mark Rayburn the founder and it's led by Mark Rayburn the founder and it's led by Mark Rayburn the founder of Boston Dynamics and the former CEO of Boston Dynamics and the former CEO of Boston Dynamics and the former CEO and my old advisor at MIT Mark has and my old advisor at MIT Mark has and my old advisor at MIT Mark has always loved the research the pure always loved the research the pure always loved the research the pure research without the confinement or research without the confinement or research without the confinement or demands of commercialization demands of commercialization demands of commercialization and uh he wanted to continue to you know and uh he wanted to continue to you know and uh he wanted to continue to you know pursue that unadulterated research pursue that unadulterated research pursue that unadulterated research and uh uh so uh suggested uh to Hyundai and uh uh so uh suggested uh to Hyundai and uh uh so uh suggested uh to Hyundai that that he set up this institute and that that he set up this institute and that that he set up this institute and they agree that it's worth additional they agree that it's worth additional they agree that it's worth additional investment to kind of continue push investment to kind of continue push investment to kind of continue push pushing this Forefront pushing this Forefront pushing this Forefront and we expect to be working together and we expect to be working together and we expect to be working together where you know Boston Dynamics is again where you know Boston Dynamics is again where you know Boston Dynamics is again both commercialize and do research but both commercialize and do research but both commercialize and do research but the sort of time Horizon of the research the sort of time Horizon of the research the sort of time Horizon of the research we're going to do is you know in the we're going to do is you know in the we're going to do is you know in the next let's say five years you know what next let's say five years you know what next let's say five years you know what can we do in the next five years let's can we do in the next five years let's can we do in the next five years let's work on those problems work on those problems work on those problems and I think the goal of the AI Institute and I think the goal of the AI Institute and I think the goal of the AI Institute is to work even further out is to work even further out is to work even further out um certainly you know the analogy of of um certainly you know the analogy of of um certainly you know the analogy of of legged Locomotion again when we started legged Locomotion again when we started legged Locomotion again when we started that that was a multi-decade problem and that that was a multi-decade problem and that that was a multi-decade problem and and so I think Mark wants to have the and so I think Mark wants to have the and so I think Mark wants to have the freedom freedom freedom uh to pursue really hard Over the uh to pursue really hard Over the uh to pursue really hard Over the Horizon problems and that's that'll be

Horizon problems and that's that'll be Horizon problems and that's that'll be the goal of the Institute the goal of the Institute the goal of the Institute so we mentioned uh some of the dangers so we mentioned uh some of the dangers so we mentioned uh some of the dangers of uh some of the concerns about large of uh some of the concerns about large of uh some of the concerns about large language models that said uh you know language models that said uh you know language models that said uh you know there's been a long-running fear of there's been a long-running fear of there's been a long-running fear of these embodied these embodied these embodied robots uh why do you think people are robots uh why do you think people are robots uh why do you think people are afraid of uh Lincoln robots yeah I afraid of uh Lincoln robots yeah I afraid of uh Lincoln robots yeah I wanted to show you this this wanted to show you this this wanted to show you this this so this this is a Wall Street Journal so this this is a Wall Street Journal so this this is a Wall Street Journal and this is all about chat GPT right but and this is all about chat GPT right but and this is all about chat GPT right but look at the picture yeah it's a humanoid look at the picture yeah it's a humanoid look at the picture yeah it's a humanoid robot robot robot that's saying I will say that looks that's saying I will say that looks that's saying I will say that looks scary and it says I'm going to replace scary and it says I'm going to replace scary and it says I'm going to replace you yeah and so the humanoid robot is you yeah and so the humanoid robot is you yeah and so the humanoid robot is sort of is the embodiment of this chat sort of is the embodiment of this chat sort of is the embodiment of this chat GPT tool that there's reason to be a GPT tool that there's reason to be a GPT tool that there's reason to be a little bit nervous about how it gets little bit nervous about how it gets little bit nervous about how it gets deployed yeah so I'm nervous about that deployed yeah so I'm nervous about that deployed yeah so I'm nervous about that connection connection connection um um um it's unfortunate that they chose to use it's unfortunate that they chose to use it's unfortunate that they chose to use a robot as that embodiment for as you a robot as that embodiment for as you a robot as that embodiment for as you and I just said there's big differences and I just said there's big differences and I just said there's big differences in in this in in this in in this but uh people are afraid because we've but uh people are afraid because we've but uh people are afraid because we've been been been taught to be afraid for over a hundred taught to be afraid for over a hundred taught to be afraid for over a hundred years so you know the word robot was years so you know the word robot was years so you know the word robot was developed by a playwright named Carol developed by a playwright named Carol developed by a playwright named Carol chapek in 1921 to check a playwright for chapek in 1921 to check a playwright for chapek in 1921 to check a playwright for Awesome's Universal robots and in that Awesome's Universal robots and in that Awesome's Universal robots and in that first depiction of a robot the robots first depiction of a robot the robots first depiction of a robot the robots took over took over took over the end of the story the end of the story the end of the story and you know people love to be afraid and you know people love to be afraid and you know people love to be afraid and so we've been entertained by these and so we've been entertained by these and so we've been entertained by these stories for a hundred years

stories for a hundred years stories for a hundred years but I but I but I and I think that's as much why people and I think that's as much why people and I think that's as much why people are afraid as anything else as we've are afraid as anything else as we've are afraid as anything else as we've been sort of taught that this is the been sort of taught that this is the been sort of taught that this is the logical progression through fiction logical progression through fiction logical progression through fiction um um um I think it's fiction I think it's fiction I think it's fiction I think uh what people more and more I think uh what people more and more I think uh what people more and more will realize just like you said will realize just like you said will realize just like you said that the threat like say you have a that the threat like say you have a that the threat like say you have a super intelligent AI embodied in a robot super intelligent AI embodied in a robot super intelligent AI embodied in a robot that's much less threatening because that's much less threatening because that's much less threatening because it's visible it's verifiable it's right it's visible it's verifiable it's right it's visible it's verifiable it's right there in physical reality and we humans there in physical reality and we humans there in physical reality and we humans know how to deal with physical reality I know how to deal with physical reality I know how to deal with physical reality I think it's much scarier when you have think it's much scarier when you have think it's much scarier when you have arbitrary scaling of arbitrary scaling of arbitrary scaling of intelligent AI systems in the digital intelligent AI systems in the digital intelligent AI systems in the digital space space space that they could uh pretend to be human that they could uh pretend to be human that they could uh pretend to be human so robot spot is not going to be pretend so robot spot is not going to be pretend so robot spot is not going to be pretend it could pretend it's human all at once it could pretend it's human all at once it could pretend it's human all at once you can tell you you could put Chad gbt you can tell you you could put Chad gbt you can tell you you could put Chad gbt on top of it but you're gonna know it's on top of it but you're gonna know it's on top of it but you're gonna know it's not human because you have a contact not human because you have a contact not human because you have a contact with physical reality and you're going with physical reality and you're going with physical reality and you're going to know whether or not it's doing what to know whether or not it's doing what to know whether or not it's doing what you asked it to do yeah like it's not you asked it to do yeah like it's not you asked it to do yeah like it's not gonna like if it like I mean I'm sure gonna like if it like I mean I'm sure gonna like if it like I mean I'm sure you can start just like a dog lies to you can start just like a dog lies to you can start just like a dog lies to you it's like I didn't I wasn't part of you it's like I didn't I wasn't part of you it's like I didn't I wasn't part of tearing up that couch tearing up that couch tearing up that couch try to lie that like you know it try to lie that like you know it try to lie that like you know it wasn't me that spilled that thing but wasn't me that spilled that thing but wasn't me that spilled that thing but it's you're going to kind of figure it it's you're going to kind of figure it it's you're going to kind of figure it out eventually it's but if it happens out eventually it's but if it happens out eventually it's but if it happens multiple times you know multiple times you know multiple times you know uh but I think that Humanity has figured uh but I think that Humanity has figured uh but I think that Humanity has figured out how to make machines safe yeah and out how to make machines safe yeah and out how to make machines safe yeah and there's you know there's regulatory

there's you know there's regulatory there's you know there's regulatory environments and certification uh environments and certification uh environments and certification uh protocols that we've developed in order protocols that we've developed in order protocols that we've developed in order to figure out how to make machines safe to figure out how to make machines safe to figure out how to make machines safe we don't know we and don't have that we don't know we and don't have that we don't know we and don't have that experience with software experience with software experience with software that can be propagated worldwide in an that can be propagated worldwide in an that can be propagated worldwide in an instant instant instant and so I think we needed to develop and so I think we needed to develop and so I think we needed to develop those protocols and those tools and so those protocols and those tools and so those protocols and those tools and so uh uh uh that's work to be done but I don't think that's work to be done but I don't think that's work to be done but I don't think the fear of that and that work should the fear of that and that work should the fear of that and that work should necessarily impede our ability to now necessarily impede our ability to now necessarily impede our ability to now get robots out because again I think I get robots out because again I think I get robots out because again I think I think we can judge when a robot's being think we can judge when a robot's being think we can judge when a robot's being safe safe safe so and again just like in that image so and again just like in that image so and again just like in that image there's a fear that robots will take our there's a fear that robots will take our there's a fear that robots will take our jobs I just um I took a ride I was in jobs I just um I took a ride I was in jobs I just um I took a ride I was in San Francisco I know way more Vehicles San Francisco I know way more Vehicles San Francisco I know way more Vehicles than autonomous vehicle and uh I've done than autonomous vehicle and uh I've done than autonomous vehicle and uh I've done it several times they're they're doing it several times they're they're doing it several times they're they're doing credible work over there uh but credible work over there uh but credible work over there uh but uh people flicked it off the car so I uh people flicked it off the car so I uh people flicked it off the car so I mean that's a long story of what the mean that's a long story of what the mean that's a long story of what the psychology of that is it could be maybe psychology of that is it could be maybe psychology of that is it could be maybe big Tech or what I I don't know exactly big Tech or what I I don't know exactly big Tech or what I I don't know exactly what they're flicking off yeah but there what they're flicking off yeah but there what they're flicking off yeah but there is an element of like these robots are is an element of like these robots are is an element of like these robots are taking our jobs or or taking our jobs or or taking our jobs or or irreversibly transforming Society such irreversibly transforming Society such irreversibly transforming Society such that it will have economic impact and that it will have economic impact and that it will have economic impact and the little guy will be uh would lose a the little guy will be uh would lose a the little guy will be uh would lose a lot would lose their well-being is there lot would lose their well-being is there lot would lose their well-being is there something to be said about something to be said about something to be said about um um um the fear that robots will take our jobs the fear that robots will take our jobs the fear that robots will take our jobs you know at every

you know at every you know at every um significant technological um significant technological um significant technological transformation uh there's been fear of transformation uh there's been fear of transformation uh there's been fear of you know an automation anxiety yes that you know an automation anxiety yes that you know an automation anxiety yes that uh it's it's going to have a broader uh it's it's going to have a broader uh it's it's going to have a broader impact than than we expected impact than than we expected impact than than we expected and there there will be uh and there there will be uh and there there will be uh you know jobs will change you know jobs will change you know jobs will change um sometime in the future we're going to um sometime in the future we're going to um sometime in the future we're going to look back at people who manually look back at people who manually look back at people who manually unloaded these boxes from trailers and unloaded these boxes from trailers and unloaded these boxes from trailers and we're going to say why did we ever do we're going to say why did we ever do we're going to say why did we ever do that manually but there's a lot of that manually but there's a lot of that manually but there's a lot of people who are doing that job today people who are doing that job today people who are doing that job today that it could be impacted that it could be impacted that it could be impacted um but I think the reality is as I said um but I think the reality is as I said um but I think the reality is as I said before we're going to build a before we're going to build a before we're going to build a Technologies those very same people can Technologies those very same people can Technologies those very same people can operate it and so I think there's a operate it and so I think there's a operate it and so I think there's a pathway to upskilling and operating just pathway to upskilling and operating just pathway to upskilling and operating just like look we used to farm with hand like look we used to farm with hand like look we used to farm with hand tools and now we farm with machines and tools and now we farm with machines and tools and now we farm with machines and nobody has really regretted that nobody has really regretted that nobody has really regretted that transformation transformation transformation and I think the same can be said for a and I think the same can be said for a and I think the same can be said for a lot of manual labor that we're doing lot of manual labor that we're doing lot of manual labor that we're doing today today today and on top of that you know look we're and on top of that you know look we're and on top of that you know look we're we're entering a new world where where we're entering a new world where where we're entering a new world where where demographics are going to have a strong demographics are going to have a strong demographics are going to have a strong impact on economic growth in the you impact on economic growth in the you impact on economic growth in the you know the advanced uh the first world is know the advanced uh the first world is know the advanced uh the first world is losing population quickly losing population quickly losing population quickly um in Europe um in Europe um in Europe they're worried about hiring enough they're worried about hiring enough they're worried about hiring enough people just to keep the logistics supply people just to keep the logistics supply people just to keep the logistics supply chain going chain going chain going and you know part of this is the and you know part of this is the and you know part of this is the response to covid and everybody's sort response to covid and everybody's sort response to covid and everybody's sort of thinking back

of thinking back of thinking back what they really want to do with their what they really want to do with their what they really want to do with their life but these jobs are getting harder life but these jobs are getting harder life but these jobs are getting harder and harder to fill and I just I'm and harder to fill and I just I'm and harder to fill and I just I'm hearing that over and over again hearing that over and over again hearing that over and over again so I think frankly this is the right so I think frankly this is the right so I think frankly this is the right technology at the right time technology at the right time technology at the right time um where we're gonna need some of this um where we're gonna need some of this um where we're gonna need some of this work to be done and we're going to want work to be done and we're going to want work to be done and we're going to want tools to enhance that productivity and tools to enhance that productivity and tools to enhance that productivity and the scary impact I think again uh gbt the scary impact I think again uh gbt the scary impact I think again uh gbt comes to the rescue in terms of being comes to the rescue in terms of being comes to the rescue in terms of being much more terrifying much more terrifying much more terrifying um um um the scary scary impact of basically so I the scary scary impact of basically so I the scary scary impact of basically so I I'm a I guess a software person inside a I'm a I guess a software person inside a I'm a I guess a software person inside a program a lot and the fact that people program a lot and the fact that people program a lot and the fact that people like me could be easily replaced like me could be easily replaced like me could be easily replaced uh by gbt uh by gbt uh by gbt that's going to have a that's going to have a that's going to have a well and a lot you know anyone who deals well and a lot you know anyone who deals well and a lot you know anyone who deals with texts and writing a draft proposal with texts and writing a draft proposal with texts and writing a draft proposal might be easily done with a chat GPT now might be easily done with a chat GPT now might be easily done with a chat GPT now Consultants Consultants Consultants journalists yeah journalists yeah journalists yeah um everybody is sweating but on the um everybody is sweating but on the um everybody is sweating but on the other hand you also want it to be right other hand you also want it to be right other hand you also want it to be right and they don't know how to make it right and they don't know how to make it right and they don't know how to make it right yet it but it might make a good starting yet it but it might make a good starting yet it but it might make a good starting point for you to iterate boy do I have point for you to iterate boy do I have point for you to iterate boy do I have to talk to you about modern journalism to talk to you about modern journalism to talk to you about modern journalism that's another conversation altogether that's another conversation altogether that's another conversation altogether but yes uh more right than the average but yes uh more right than the average but yes uh more right than the average uh uh uh um the the mean journalist yes um the the mean journalist yes um the the mean journalist yes um um um you spearheaded the NT weaponization you spearheaded the NT weaponization you spearheaded the NT weaponization letter

letter letter uh Boston Dynamics has can you uh Boston Dynamics has can you uh Boston Dynamics has can you describe uh what that letter States and describe uh what that letter States and describe uh what that letter States and the general topic of the use of robots the general topic of the use of robots the general topic of the use of robots in war in war in war we we we authored a letter and then got several authored a letter and then got several authored a letter and then got several leading robotics companies around the leading robotics companies around the leading robotics companies around the world including you know unitary and world including you know unitary and world including you know unitary and China and China and China and um agility here in the United States and um agility here in the United States and um agility here in the United States and um animal and in Europe um animal and in Europe um animal and in Europe and you know some others to co-sign a and you know some others to co-sign a and you know some others to co-sign a letter that said we won't put weapons on letter that said we won't put weapons on letter that said we won't put weapons on our robots our robots our robots and part of the motivation there is you and part of the motivation there is you and part of the motivation there is you know as these robots start to become know as these robots start to become know as these robots start to become commercially available commercially available commercially available you can see videos online of people you can see videos online of people you can see videos online of people who've gotten a robot and strapped a gun who've gotten a robot and strapped a gun who've gotten a robot and strapped a gun on it and shown that they can you know on it and shown that they can you know on it and shown that they can you know operate the gun remotely while driving operate the gun remotely while driving operate the gun remotely while driving the robot around the robot around the robot around and so having a robot that has this and so having a robot that has this and so having a robot that has this level of Mobility level of Mobility level of Mobility and that can easily be configured in a and that can easily be configured in a and that can easily be configured in a way that could harm somebody from a way that could harm somebody from a way that could harm somebody from a remote operators remote operators remote operators justifiably a scary thing justifiably a scary thing justifiably a scary thing and so we felt like it was important to and so we felt like it was important to and so we felt like it was important to draw a bright line there and say we're draw a bright line there and say we're draw a bright line there and say we're not going to allow this not going to allow this not going to allow this for for for um um um you know reasons that we think you know reasons that we think you know reasons that we think ultimately it's better for the whole ultimately it's better for the whole ultimately it's better for the whole industry if if it grows in a way where industry if if it grows in a way where industry if if it grows in a way where uh the robots are ultimately going to

uh the robots are ultimately going to uh the robots are ultimately going to help us all and make our lives more help us all and make our lives more help us all and make our lives more fulfilled and productive but by goodness fulfilled and productive but by goodness fulfilled and productive but by goodness you're going to have to trust the you're going to have to trust the you're going to have to trust the technology to let it in and if technology to let it in and if technology to let it in and if and if you think the robot is going to and if you think the robot is going to and if you think the robot is going to harm you that's gonna that's gonna hurt harm you that's gonna that's gonna hurt harm you that's gonna that's gonna hurt and impede the growth of that industry and impede the growth of that industry and impede the growth of that industry so we thought it was important to to so we thought it was important to to so we thought it was important to to draw a bright line draw a bright line draw a bright line and uh and then publicize that and and and uh and then publicize that and and and uh and then publicize that and and our plan is to you know begin to engage our plan is to you know begin to engage our plan is to you know begin to engage with with with lawmakers and Regulators let's figure lawmakers and Regulators let's figure lawmakers and Regulators let's figure out what the rules are going to be out what the rules are going to be out what the rules are going to be around the use of this technology around the use of this technology around the use of this technology um and use our position as leaders in um and use our position as leaders in um and use our position as leaders in this industry and Technology this industry and Technology this industry and Technology to help force that issue to help force that issue to help force that issue and so we are in fact I have a policy and so we are in fact I have a policy and so we are in fact I have a policy you know director at my company whose you know director at my company whose you know director at my company whose job it is to engage with the public to job it is to engage with the public to job it is to engage with the public to enjoy engage with interested parties and enjoy engage with interested parties and enjoy engage with interested parties and including Regulators to sort of begin including Regulators to sort of begin including Regulators to sort of begin these discussions these discussions these discussions he has a really important topic and it's he has a really important topic and it's he has a really important topic and it's an important topic for people that worry an important topic for people that worry an important topic for people that worry about the impact of robots on our about the impact of robots on our about the impact of robots on our society with autonomous weapon systems society with autonomous weapon systems society with autonomous weapon systems so I'm glad you're sort of leading the so I'm glad you're sort of leading the so I'm glad you're sort of leading the way in this uh way in this uh way in this uh you are the CEO of Boston Dynamics uh you are the CEO of Boston Dynamics uh you are the CEO of Boston Dynamics uh what's it take to be SEO of a robotics what's it take to be SEO of a robotics what's it take to be SEO of a robotics company she started as a humble engineer uh PhD uh PhD um just looking at your journey

um just looking at your journey um just looking at your journey what does it take to go from being what does it take to go from being what does it take to go from being from building the thing from building the thing from building the thing to Leading a company what are some of to Leading a company what are some of to Leading a company what are some of the big challenges for you the big challenges for you the big challenges for you uh courage I would I would put front and uh courage I would I would put front and uh courage I would I would put front and center for multiple reasons I talked center for multiple reasons I talked center for multiple reasons I talked earlier about the courage to tackle hard earlier about the courage to tackle hard earlier about the courage to tackle hard problems problems problems so I think there's courage required not so I think there's courage required not so I think there's courage required not just of me but of of all of the people just of me but of of all of the people just of me but of of all of the people who work at Boston Dynamics who work at Boston Dynamics who work at Boston Dynamics um I also think we have a lot of really um I also think we have a lot of really um I also think we have a lot of really smart people we have people who are way smart people we have people who are way smart people we have people who are way smarter than I am smarter than I am smarter than I am and I it takes a kind of courage to be and I it takes a kind of courage to be and I it takes a kind of courage to be willing to lead them willing to lead them willing to lead them and to trust that and to trust that and to trust that you have something to offer to somebody you have something to offer to somebody you have something to offer to somebody who probably is maybe a better engineer who probably is maybe a better engineer who probably is maybe a better engineer than I am than I am than I am um um um adaptability you know part of the it's adaptability you know part of the it's adaptability you know part of the it's been a great career for me I never would been a great career for me I never would been a great career for me I never would have guessed I'd stayed in one place for have guessed I'd stayed in one place for have guessed I'd stayed in one place for 30 years 30 years 30 years um and the job has always changed um and the job has always changed um and the job has always changed um I didn't I didn't really aspire to be um I didn't I didn't really aspire to be um I didn't I didn't really aspire to be CEO from the very beginning but it was CEO from the very beginning but it was CEO from the very beginning but it was the natural progression of things there the natural progression of things there the natural progression of things there was always a there always needed to be was always a there always needed to be was always a there always needed to be some level of management that was needed some level of management that was needed some level of management that was needed and so and so and so you know when I saw you know when I saw you know when I saw something that needed to be done that something that needed to be done that something that needed to be done that wasn't being done I just stepped in to wasn't being done I just stepped in to wasn't being done I just stepped in to go do it and oftentimes because we were go do it and oftentimes because we were go do it and oftentimes because we were full of such uh strong Engineers full of such uh strong Engineers full of such uh strong Engineers oftentimes that was in the management

oftentimes that was in the management oftentimes that was in the management direction or it was in the business direction or it was in the business direction or it was in the business development direction or or development direction or or development direction or or organizational hiring geez I was not I organizational hiring geez I was not I organizational hiring geez I was not I was the main person hiring at Boston was the main person hiring at Boston was the main person hiring at Boston Dynamics for probably 20 years so I was Dynamics for probably 20 years so I was Dynamics for probably 20 years so I was the head of HR basically the head of HR basically the head of HR basically so I you know just willingness to sort so I you know just willingness to sort so I you know just willingness to sort of tackle any piece of the business that of tackle any piece of the business that of tackle any piece of the business that that needs it and then and be willing to that needs it and then and be willing to that needs it and then and be willing to shift is there something you could say shift is there something you could say shift is there something you could say to what it takes to hire a great team to what it takes to hire a great team to what it takes to hire a great team what uh what uh what uh what's a good interview process how do what's a good interview process how do what's a good interview process how do you know uh the guy or Gallery are going you know uh the guy or Gallery are going you know uh the guy or Gallery are going to make a great member of uh of a to make a great member of uh of a to make a great member of uh of a engineering team that's doing some of engineering team that's doing some of engineering team that's doing some of the hardest work in the world the hardest work in the world the hardest work in the world you know we developed an interview you know we developed an interview you know we developed an interview process that I was quite fond of it's a process that I was quite fond of it's a process that I was quite fond of it's a little bit of a hard interview process little bit of a hard interview process little bit of a hard interview process because the best interviews you ask because the best interviews you ask because the best interviews you ask somebody about what they're interested somebody about what they're interested somebody about what they're interested in and what they're good at in and what they're good at in and what they're good at and if if they can describe to you and if if they can describe to you and if if they can describe to you something that they worked on and you something that they worked on and you something that they worked on and you saw they really did the work they solved saw they really did the work they solved saw they really did the work they solved the problems the problems the problems and you saw their passion for it um and you could ask but but what makes um and you could ask but but what makes that hard is you have to ask a probing that hard is you have to ask a probing that hard is you have to ask a probing question about it you have to be smart question about it you have to be smart question about it you have to be smart enough about what they're telling you enough about what they're telling you enough about what they're telling you their expert at to ask a good question their expert at to ask a good question their expert at to ask a good question and so it takes a pretty talented team and so it takes a pretty talented team and so it takes a pretty talented team to do that to do that to do that but if you can do that that's how you but if you can do that that's how you but if you can do that that's how you tap into ah this person cares about tap into ah this person cares about tap into ah this person cares about their work they really did the work

their work they really did the work their work they really did the work they're excited about it that's the kind they're excited about it that's the kind they're excited about it that's the kind of person I want at my company of person I want at my company of person I want at my company you know at Google they taught us about you know at Google they taught us about you know at Google they taught us about their interview process their interview process their interview process and it was a little bit different and it was a little bit different and it was a little bit different um um um you know you know you know we we evolved the process at Boston we we evolved the process at Boston we we evolved the process at Boston Dynamics where it didn't matter if you Dynamics where it didn't matter if you Dynamics where it didn't matter if you were an engineer or you were an uh were an engineer or you were an uh were an engineer or you were an uh administrative assistant or a financial administrative assistant or a financial administrative assistant or a financial person or a technician person or a technician person or a technician you gave us a presentation you came in you gave us a presentation you came in you gave us a presentation you came in and you gave us a presentation you had and you gave us a presentation you had and you gave us a presentation you had to stand up and talk in front of us to stand up and talk in front of us to stand up and talk in front of us and I just thought that was great to tap and I just thought that was great to tap and I just thought that was great to tap into those things I didn't subscribed to into those things I didn't subscribed to into those things I didn't subscribed to you at Google they taught us and I think you at Google they taught us and I think you at Google they taught us and I think I understand why you're right they're I understand why you're right they're I understand why you're right they're hiring tens of thousands of people they hiring tens of thousands of people they hiring tens of thousands of people they need a more standardized process so they need a more standardized process so they need a more standardized process so they would sort of err on the other side would sort of err on the other side would sort of err on the other side where they would ask you a standard where they would ask you a standard where they would ask you a standard question I'm going to ask you a question I'm going to ask you a question I'm going to ask you a programming question and I'm just going programming question and I'm just going programming question and I'm just going to ask you to write code in front of me to ask you to write code in front of me to ask you to write code in front of me that's a terrifying you know application that's a terrifying you know application that's a terrifying you know application process yeah it does let you compare process yeah it does let you compare process yeah it does let you compare candidates really well but it doesn't candidates really well but it doesn't candidates really well but it doesn't necessarily let you tap in to who they necessarily let you tap in to who they necessarily let you tap in to who they are yeah right because you're asking are yeah right because you're asking are yeah right because you're asking them to answer your question instead of them to answer your question instead of them to answer your question instead of you asking them about what they're you asking them about what they're you asking them about what they're interested in interested in interested in um but frankly that process is hard to um but frankly that process is hard to um but frankly that process is hard to scale and even at Boston Dynamics scale and even at Boston Dynamics scale and even at Boston Dynamics we're not doing that with everybody we're not doing that with everybody we're not doing that with everybody anymore we're but we are still doing anymore we're but we are still doing anymore we're but we are still doing that with you know the technical people that with you know the technical people that with you know the technical people but we've because we too now need to but we've because we too now need to but we've because we too now need to sort of increase our rate of hiring uh

sort of increase our rate of hiring uh sort of increase our rate of hiring uh not everybody's giving a presentation not everybody's giving a presentation not everybody's giving a presentation anymore but you're still ultimately anymore but you're still ultimately anymore but you're still ultimately trying to find that uh basic seed of trying to find that uh basic seed of trying to find that uh basic seed of passion yeah into the world you know did passion yeah into the world you know did passion yeah into the world you know did they really do it did they did they find they really do it did they did they find they really do it did they did they find something interesting or curious you something interesting or curious you something interesting or curious you know know know um and do they care about it I think uh um and do they care about it I think uh um and do they care about it I think uh somebody admires somebody admires somebody admires um Jim Keller and he um Jim Keller and he um Jim Keller and he he likes details he likes details he likes details so one of the ways you could if you get so one of the ways you could if you get so one of the ways you could if you get a person to talk about what they're a person to talk about what they're a person to talk about what they're interested in how many details like how interested in how many details like how interested in how many details like how much of the Whiteboard can you fill out much of the Whiteboard can you fill out much of the Whiteboard can you fill out yeah well I think you figure out did yeah well I think you figure out did yeah well I think you figure out did they really do the work if they know they really do the work if they know they really do the work if they know some of the details yes and if they have some of the details yes and if they have some of the details yes and if they have to wash over the details well then they to wash over the details well then they to wash over the details well then they didn't do it especially with engineering didn't do it especially with engineering didn't do it especially with engineering the work is in the details yeah the work is in the details yeah the work is in the details yeah I have to go there briefly I have to go there briefly I have to go there briefly just to get your kind of thoughts in the just to get your kind of thoughts in the just to get your kind of thoughts in the long-term future of robotics long-term future of robotics long-term future of robotics there's been discussions on the GPT side there's been discussions on the GPT side there's been discussions on the GPT side on the large language model side of on the large language model side of on the large language model side of whether there's Consciousness inside whether there's Consciousness inside whether there's Consciousness inside these language models these language models these language models and I think there's fear but I think and I think there's fear but I think and I think there's fear but I think there's also excitement or at least the there's also excitement or at least the there's also excitement or at least the wide world of opportunity and wide world of opportunity and wide world of opportunity and possibility in embodied robots having possibility in embodied robots having possibility in embodied robots having something like something like something like let's start with emotion let's start with emotion let's start with emotion love towards other human beings love towards other human beings love towards other human beings and uh perhaps the display real or fake

and uh perhaps the display real or fake and uh perhaps the display real or fake of consciousness of consciousness of consciousness is this something you think about in is this something you think about in is this something you think about in terms of long long term future because terms of long long term future because terms of long long term future because as you as we've talked about people do as you as we've talked about people do as you as we've talked about people do anthropomorphize these robots uh it's anthropomorphize these robots uh it's anthropomorphize these robots uh it's difficult not to project some level of I difficult not to project some level of I difficult not to project some level of I use the word sentience some level of use the word sentience some level of use the word sentience some level of sovereignty identity all the things we sovereignty identity all the things we sovereignty identity all the things we think is human that's what think is human that's what think is human that's what anthropomorphization is as we project anthropomorphization is as we project anthropomorphization is as we project humanness onto mobile especially legged humanness onto mobile especially legged humanness onto mobile especially legged robots robots robots um is that something almost from a um is that something almost from a um is that something almost from a science fiction perspective you think science fiction perspective you think science fiction perspective you think about or do you try to avoid ever about or do you try to avoid ever about or do you try to avoid ever you try to avoid the topic of you try to avoid the topic of you try to avoid the topic of Consciousness altogether Consciousness altogether Consciousness altogether I'm certainly not an expert in it and I I'm certainly not an expert in it and I I'm certainly not an expert in it and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about don't spend a lot of time thinking about don't spend a lot of time thinking about this right this right this right um and I do think it's fairly remote for um and I do think it's fairly remote for um and I do think it's fairly remote for the machines that that we're dealing the machines that that we're dealing the machines that that we're dealing with with with um um um our robots you're right the people our robots you're right the people our robots you're right the people Anthem warfies they they read into the Anthem warfies they they read into the Anthem warfies they they read into the robot's intelligence and emotion that robot's intelligence and emotion that robot's intelligence and emotion that isn't there because they see physical isn't there because they see physical isn't there because they see physical gestures gestures gestures that are similar to things they might that are similar to things they might that are similar to things they might even see in people or animals even see in people or animals even see in people or animals um I don't know much about how these um I don't know much about how these um I don't know much about how these large language models really work I I large language models really work I I large language models really work I I believe it's a kind of statistical believe it's a kind of statistical believe it's a kind of statistical averaging of the most common responses averaging of the most common responses averaging of the most common responses you know to a series of words right it's you know to a series of words right it's you know to a series of words right it's it's sort of um it's sort of um it's sort of um a very elaborate uh word completion

a very elaborate uh word completion a very elaborate uh word completion um and I'm dubious that that has um and I'm dubious that that has um and I'm dubious that that has anything to do with consciousness anything to do with consciousness anything to do with consciousness um and I I even wonder if that model of um and I I even wonder if that model of um and I I even wonder if that model of sort of simulating Consciousness by by sort of simulating Consciousness by by sort of simulating Consciousness by by stringing words together that are stringing words together that are stringing words together that are statistically associated with one statistically associated with one statistically associated with one another another another um whether or not that kind of knowledge um whether or not that kind of knowledge um whether or not that kind of knowledge if you want to call that knowledge if you want to call that knowledge if you want to call that knowledge um would be the kind of knowledge that um would be the kind of knowledge that um would be the kind of knowledge that allowed a sentient being to grow or allowed a sentient being to grow or allowed a sentient being to grow or evolve it feels to me like there's evolve it feels to me like there's evolve it feels to me like there's there's something about there's something about there's something about truth or emotions truth or emotions truth or emotions that's just a very different kind of that's just a very different kind of that's just a very different kind of knowledge that is that is absolute like knowledge that is that is absolute like knowledge that is that is absolute like a the interesting thing about truth is a the interesting thing about truth is a the interesting thing about truth is it's absolute and it doesn't matter how it's absolute and it doesn't matter how it's absolute and it doesn't matter how frequently it's represented in the world frequently it's represented in the world frequently it's represented in the world wide web it wide web it wide web it if you know it to be true it can only be if you know it to be true it can only be if you know it to be true it can only be it may only be there once but by God it may only be there once but by God it may only be there once but by God that's true that's true that's true and I think emotions are a little bit and I think emotions are a little bit and I think emotions are a little bit like that too you know something you like that too you know something you like that too you know something you know and know and know and and I just think that's a different kind and I just think that's a different kind and I just think that's a different kind of knowledge than the way these large of knowledge than the way these large of knowledge than the way these large language models uh derive sort of language models uh derive sort of language models uh derive sort of simulated it does seem that intelligence simulated it does seem that intelligence simulated it does seem that intelligence things that are true things that are true things that are true um very well might be statistically well um very well might be statistically well um very well might be statistically well represented on the on the internet represented on the on the internet represented on the on the internet because the internet is made up of because the internet is made up of because the internet is made up of humans humans humans so I tend to suspect that large language so I tend to suspect that large language so I tend to suspect that large language models are going to be able to simulate models are going to be able to simulate models are going to be able to simulate Consciousness very effectively and I Consciousness very effectively and I Consciousness very effectively and I actually believe that current gpt4 when

actually believe that current gpt4 when actually believe that current gpt4 when fine-tuned correctly would be able to do fine-tuned correctly would be able to do fine-tuned correctly would be able to do just that and that's going to be a lot just that and that's going to be a lot just that and that's going to be a lot of very complicated ethical questions of very complicated ethical questions of very complicated ethical questions that have to be dealt with that have that have to be dealt with that have that have to be dealt with that have nothing to do with robotics they have nothing to do with robotics they have nothing to do with robotics they have and everything to do with there needs to and everything to do with there needs to and everything to do with there needs to be some process of be some process of be some process of labeling I think what is true labeling I think what is true labeling I think what is true because because there is also because because there is also because because there is also disinformation available on the web and disinformation available on the web and disinformation available on the web and these models are going to consider that these models are going to consider that these models are going to consider that kind of information as well kind of information as well kind of information as well and again you can't average something and again you can't average something and again you can't average something that's true and something that's untrue that's true and something that's untrue that's true and something that's untrue and get something that's moderately true and get something that's moderately true and get something that's moderately true it's either right or it's wrong and so it's either right or it's wrong and so it's either right or it's wrong and so how how is that process and and this is how how is that process and and this is how how is that process and and this is obviously something that obviously something that obviously something that the purveyors of these Bard and chat gbt the purveyors of these Bard and chat gbt the purveyors of these Bard and chat gbt that I'm sure this is what they're that I'm sure this is what they're that I'm sure this is what they're working on well if you interact on some working on well if you interact on some working on well if you interact on some controversial topics with these models controversial topics with these models controversial topics with these models they're actually refreshingly nuanced they're actually refreshingly nuanced they're actually refreshingly nuanced they present because there's there's they present because there's there's they present because there's there's well you realize there's no one truth well you realize there's no one truth well you realize there's no one truth you know uh what caused you know uh what caused you know uh what caused the war in Ukraine right any the war in Ukraine right any the war in Ukraine right any geopolitical conflict you can ask any geopolitical conflict you can ask any geopolitical conflict you can ask any kind of question especially the ones kind of question especially the ones kind of question especially the ones that are politically uh a a tense that are politically uh a a tense that are politically uh a a tense divisive and so on GPT is very good at divisive and so on GPT is very good at divisive and so on GPT is very good at presenting here's the like here's the presenting here's the like here's the presenting here's the like here's the app it presents the different hypotheses app it presents the different hypotheses app it presents the different hypotheses it presents calmly so the the amount of it presents calmly so the the amount of it presents calmly so the the amount of evidence for each one it's very it's

evidence for each one it's very it's evidence for each one it's very it's really refreshing it makes you realize really refreshing it makes you realize really refreshing it makes you realize that truth is nuanced and it does that that truth is nuanced and it does that that truth is nuanced and it does that well and I think with consciousness well and I think with consciousness well and I think with consciousness it would very uh accurately say Well it it would very uh accurately say Well it it would very uh accurately say Well it sure as hell feels like I'm one of you sure as hell feels like I'm one of you sure as hell feels like I'm one of you humans but where's my body I don't humans but where's my body I don't humans but where's my body I don't understand like you're going to be understand like you're going to be understand like you're going to be confused the cool thing about GPT confused the cool thing about GPT confused the cool thing about GPT is it seems to be easily confused in the is it seems to be easily confused in the is it seems to be easily confused in the way we are like you wake up in a new way we are like you wake up in a new way we are like you wake up in a new room and you ask where am I it seems to room and you ask where am I it seems to room and you ask where am I it seems to be able to do that extremely well it'll be able to do that extremely well it'll be able to do that extremely well it'll tell you one thing like a fact about tell you one thing like a fact about tell you one thing like a fact about when a war started and when you correct when a war started and when you correct when a war started and when you correct it say well this isn't it's not it say well this isn't it's not it say well this isn't it's not consistent it'll be confused it'd be consistent it'll be confused it'd be consistent it'll be confused it'd be yeah you're right yeah you're right yeah you're right it'll have that same element childlike it'll have that same element childlike it'll have that same element childlike element with humility of trying to element with humility of trying to element with humility of trying to figure out its way in the world and I figure out its way in the world and I figure out its way in the world and I think think think that's a really tricky area to uh to that's a really tricky area to uh to that's a really tricky area to uh to sort of figure out with us humans of sort of figure out with us humans of sort of figure out with us humans of what we want what we want what we want um to allow AI systems to say to us um to allow AI systems to say to us um to allow AI systems to say to us because then if there's elements of because then if there's elements of because then if there's elements of sentience that are being on display you sentience that are being on display you sentience that are being on display you can then start to manipulate human can then start to manipulate human can then start to manipulate human emotion all that kind of stuff but I emotion all that kind of stuff but I emotion all that kind of stuff but I think think think that's that's something that's a really that's that's something that's a really that's that's something that's a really serious and aggressive discussion that serious and aggressive discussion that serious and aggressive discussion that needs to be had needs to be had needs to be had on the software side on the software side on the software side um I think again embodiment uh um I think again embodiment uh um I think again embodiment uh Robotics are actually saving us from the Robotics are actually saving us from the Robotics are actually saving us from the arbitrary scaling of software systems

arbitrary scaling of software systems arbitrary scaling of software systems versus uh creating more problems but versus uh creating more problems but versus uh creating more problems but that said I I really believe in the that that said I I really believe in the that that said I I really believe in the that connection between human and robot connection between human and robot connection between human and robot there's magic there there's magic there there's magic there and I think uh there's also I think a and I think uh there's also I think a and I think uh there's also I think a lot of money to be made there and Boston lot of money to be made there and Boston lot of money to be made there and Boston Dynamics is leading the world in Dynamics is leading the world in Dynamics is leading the world in um the most elegant movement um the most elegant movement um the most elegant movement done by robots done by robots done by robots so I I can't wait thank you to uh what so I I can't wait thank you to uh what so I I can't wait thank you to uh what maybe other people that built on top of maybe other people that built on top of maybe other people that built on top of uh Boston Dynamics robots or boss or uh Boston Dynamics robots or boss or uh Boston Dynamics robots or boss or Boston Dynamics by itself so you had uh Boston Dynamics by itself so you had uh Boston Dynamics by itself so you had uh one wild career one place and one one wild career one place and one one wild career one place and one set of problems but incredibly set of problems but incredibly set of problems but incredibly successful can you give advice to Young successful can you give advice to Young successful can you give advice to Young Folks today in high school maybe in Folks today in high school maybe in Folks today in high school maybe in college looking out into this future college looking out into this future college looking out into this future where where where so much Robotics and AI seems to be so much Robotics and AI seems to be so much Robotics and AI seems to be defining the trajectory of human defining the trajectory of human defining the trajectory of human civilization can you give them advice on civilization can you give them advice on civilization can you give them advice on how to have a career they can be proud how to have a career they can be proud how to have a career they can be proud of of of or how to have a life they can be proud or how to have a life they can be proud or how to have a life they can be proud of of of well I would say uh you know follow your well I would say uh you know follow your well I would say uh you know follow your heart and your interest you know what heart and your interest you know what heart and your interest you know what again this was an organizing principle I again this was an organizing principle I again this was an organizing principle I think behind think behind think behind the light Lab at MIT that that turned the light Lab at MIT that that turned the light Lab at MIT that that turned into into into a value at Boston Dynamics which was a value at Boston Dynamics which was a value at Boston Dynamics which was follow your curiosity follow your curiosity follow your curiosity love what you're doing

love what you're doing love what you're doing um you'll have a lot more fun and you'll um you'll have a lot more fun and you'll um you'll have a lot more fun and you'll be a lot better at it as a result um um I think it's hard to plan you know don't I think it's hard to plan you know don't I think it's hard to plan you know don't get too hung up on planning too far get too hung up on planning too far get too hung up on planning too far ahead find things that you like doing ahead find things that you like doing ahead find things that you like doing and then see where it takes you you can and then see where it takes you you can and then see where it takes you you can always change direction you will find always change direction you will find always change direction you will find things that you know that wasn't a good things that you know that wasn't a good things that you know that wasn't a good move I'm gonna back up and go do move I'm gonna back up and go do move I'm gonna back up and go do something else something else something else so when people are trying to plan a so when people are trying to plan a so when people are trying to plan a career I always feel like yeah there's a career I always feel like yeah there's a career I always feel like yeah there's a few happy mistakes that happen along the few happy mistakes that happen along the few happy mistakes that happen along the way and just live with that it you know way and just live with that it you know way and just live with that it you know but just but just but just but make choices then so Avail but make choices then so Avail but make choices then so Avail yourselves to these interesting yourselves to these interesting yourselves to these interesting opportunities like when I happen to run opportunities like when I happen to run opportunities like when I happen to run into mark down in the lab the basement into mark down in the lab the basement into mark down in the lab the basement of the AI lab of the AI lab of the AI lab but be willing to make it but be willing to make it but be willing to make it a decision and then pivot if you see a decision and then pivot if you see a decision and then pivot if you see something exciting to go at you know something exciting to go at you know something exciting to go at you know because if you're out and about enough because if you're out and about enough because if you're out and about enough you'll you'll find things like that that you'll you'll find things like that that you'll you'll find things like that that get you excited so there was a feeling get you excited so there was a feeling get you excited so there was a feeling when you first met Mark and saw the when you first met Mark and saw the when you first met Mark and saw the robots that there's something robots that there's something robots that there's something interesting oh boy I gotta go do this interesting oh boy I gotta go do this interesting oh boy I gotta go do this there is no doubt there is no doubt there is no doubt what do you think in the 100 years what do you think in the 100 years what do you think in the 100 years what do you think Boston Dynamics is what do you think Boston Dynamics is what do you think Boston Dynamics is doing what do you think is the role even doing what do you think is the role even doing what do you think is the role even bigger what do you think is the role of bigger what do you think is the role of bigger what do you think is the role of robots in society do you think we'll be robots in society do you think we'll be robots in society do you think we'll be seeing seeing seeing billions of robots billions of robots billions of robots everywhere everywhere everywhere do you think about that long-term vision do you think about that long-term vision do you think about that long-term vision well I do think that um

I think the robots will be ubiquitous I think the robots will be ubiquitous and they will be out amongst us and they will be out amongst us and they will be out amongst us um um um and they'll be and they'll be and they'll be certainly doing you know some of the certainly doing you know some of the certainly doing you know some of the hard labor that we do today hard labor that we do today hard labor that we do today I don't think people don't want to work I don't think people don't want to work I don't think people don't want to work people want to work people need to work people want to work people need to work people want to work people need to work to I think feel productive we we don't to I think feel productive we we don't to I think feel productive we we don't want to offload all of the work to the want to offload all of the work to the want to offload all of the work to the robots because I'm not sure if people robots because I'm not sure if people robots because I'm not sure if people would know what to do with themselves would know what to do with themselves would know what to do with themselves and I think just self-satisfaction and and I think just self-satisfaction and and I think just self-satisfaction and feeling productive is such an ingrained feeling productive is such an ingrained feeling productive is such an ingrained part of being human that we need to keep part of being human that we need to keep part of being human that we need to keep doing this work so we're definitely doing this work so we're definitely doing this work so we're definitely going to have to work in a complementary going to have to work in a complementary going to have to work in a complementary fashion and I hope that the robots and fashion and I hope that the robots and fashion and I hope that the robots and the computers don't end up being able to the computers don't end up being able to the computers don't end up being able to do all the creative work right because do all the creative work right because do all the creative work right because because that's the part that's you know because that's the part that's you know because that's the part that's you know that's the rewarding the creative part that's the rewarding the creative part that's the rewarding the creative part of solving a problem is the thing that of solving a problem is the thing that of solving a problem is the thing that gives you gives you gives you that serotonin Rush that you never that serotonin Rush that you never that serotonin Rush that you never forget you know or that Adrenaline Rush forget you know or that Adrenaline Rush forget you know or that Adrenaline Rush that you never forget and so you know that you never forget and so you know that you never forget and so you know people need to be able to do that people need to be able to do that people need to be able to do that creative work and and just feel creative work and and just feel creative work and and just feel productive and sometimes that you can productive and sometimes that you can productive and sometimes that you can feel productive over fairly simple work feel productive over fairly simple work feel productive over fairly simple work it's just well done you know and then it's just well done you know and then it's just well done you know and then you can see the result of you can see the result of you can see the result of so I yeah you know there is a so I yeah you know there is a so I yeah you know there is a I don't know there's a a cartoon was it I don't know there's a a cartoon was it I don't know there's a a cartoon was it Wally where they had this big ship and Wally where they had this big ship and Wally where they had this big ship and all the people were just

all the people were just all the people were just overweight lying on their best chairs overweight lying on their best chairs overweight lying on their best chairs kind of sliding around on the deck of kind of sliding around on the deck of kind of sliding around on the deck of the of the movie because they didn't do the of the movie because they didn't do the of the movie because they didn't do anything anymore yeah well we definitely anything anymore yeah well we definitely anything anymore yeah well we definitely don't want to be there you know we need don't want to be there you know we need don't want to be there you know we need to work in some complimentary fashion to work in some complimentary fashion to work in some complimentary fashion where we keep all of our faculties and where we keep all of our faculties and where we keep all of our faculties and our physical health and we're doing some our physical health and we're doing some our physical health and we're doing some labor right but in a complimentary labor right but in a complimentary labor right but in a complimentary fashion somehow and I think a lot of fashion somehow and I think a lot of fashion somehow and I think a lot of that has to do with the interaction the that has to do with the interaction the that has to do with the interaction the collaboration with robots and with AI collaboration with robots and with AI collaboration with robots and with AI systems I'm hoping there's a lot of systems I'm hoping there's a lot of systems I'm hoping there's a lot of interesting possibilities I think that interesting possibilities I think that interesting possibilities I think that could be really cool right if you can if could be really cool right if you can if could be really cool right if you can if you can work in a comp internet you can work in a comp internet you can work in a comp internet interaction and really be be helpful interaction and really be be helpful interaction and really be be helpful robots you robots you robots you you know you can ask a robot to do a job you know you can ask a robot to do a job you know you can ask a robot to do a job you wouldn't ask a person to do and that you wouldn't ask a person to do and that you wouldn't ask a person to do and that would be a real asset you wouldn't feel would be a real asset you wouldn't feel would be a real asset you wouldn't feel guilty about it you know you'd say just guilty about it you know you'd say just guilty about it you know you'd say just do it it's a machine I and I don't have do it it's a machine I and I don't have do it it's a machine I and I don't have to have qualms about that you know the to have qualms about that you know the to have qualms about that you know the ones that are machines I also hope to ones that are machines I also hope to ones that are machines I also hope to see a future see a future see a future and it is hope I do have optimism about and it is hope I do have optimism about and it is hope I do have optimism about that future where some of the robots are that future where some of the robots are that future where some of the robots are pets have an emotional connection to us pets have an emotional connection to us pets have an emotional connection to us humans and uh because one of the humans and uh because one of the humans and uh because one of the problems that humans have to solve is problems that humans have to solve is problems that humans have to solve is this kind of a general loneliness um this kind of a general loneliness um this kind of a general loneliness um the more love you have in your life the the more love you have in your life the the more love you have in your life the more friends you have in your life I more friends you have in your life I more friends you have in your life I think that makes a more enriching life think that makes a more enriching life think that makes a more enriching life helps you grow and I don't fundamentally helps you grow and I don't fundamentally helps you grow and I don't fundamentally see why some of those friends can't be see why some of those friends can't be see why some of those friends can't be robots there's an interesting robots there's an interesting robots there's an interesting long-running study maybe it's an Harvard long-running study maybe it's an Harvard long-running study maybe it's an Harvard they just nice report article written they just nice report article written they just nice report article written about it recently they've been studying about it recently they've been studying about it recently they've been studying this group of a few thousand people now

this group of a few thousand people now this group of a few thousand people now for 70 or 80 years and the conclusion is for 70 or 80 years and the conclusion is for 70 or 80 years and the conclusion is that that that companionship and friendship are the companionship and friendship are the companionship and friendship are the things that make for a better and things that make for a better and things that make for a better and happier life happier life happier life and and and um um um so I agree with you and I think that so I agree with you and I think that so I agree with you and I think that could happen with a machine that is could happen with a machine that is could happen with a machine that is probably you know simulating probably you know simulating probably you know simulating intelligence I'm not convinced there intelligence I'm not convinced there intelligence I'm not convinced there will ever be true intelligence in these will ever be true intelligence in these will ever be true intelligence in these machines machines machines sentience but they could simulate it and sentience but they could simulate it and sentience but they could simulate it and they could collect your history and they they could collect your history and they they could collect your history and they could you know I guess it remains to be could you know I guess it remains to be could you know I guess it remains to be seen whether they can establish that seen whether they can establish that seen whether they can establish that real deep you know when you sit with a real deep you know when you sit with a real deep you know when you sit with a friend and they remember something about friend and they remember something about friend and they remember something about you and bring that up and you feel that you and bring that up and you feel that you and bring that up and you feel that connection it remains to be seen if a connection it remains to be seen if a connection it remains to be seen if a machine's going to be able to do that machine's going to be able to do that machine's going to be able to do that for you well I have to say it's inklings for you well I have to say it's inklings for you well I have to say it's inklings of that already started happening for me of that already started happening for me of that already started happening for me some of my best friends are robots some of my best friends are robots some of my best friends are robots uh and I have you to thank for leading uh and I have you to thank for leading uh and I have you to thank for leading the way in in the accessibility and the the way in in the accessibility and the the way in in the accessibility and the ease of use of such robots and the ease of use of such robots and the ease of use of such robots and the Elegance of their movement uh Robert Elegance of their movement uh Robert Elegance of their movement uh Robert you're an incredible person Boston you're an incredible person Boston you're an incredible person Boston Dynamics is an incredible company I've Dynamics is an incredible company I've Dynamics is an incredible company I've just been a fan for many many years for just been a fan for many many years for just been a fan for many many years for everything you stand for for everything everything you stand for for everything everything you stand for for everything you do in the world if you're interested you do in the world if you're interested you do in the world if you're interested in great engineering robotics go join in great engineering robotics go join in great engineering robotics go join them build cool stuff I'll forever them build cool stuff I'll forever them build cool stuff I'll forever celebrate the work you're doing and it's celebrate the work you're doing and it's celebrate the work you're doing and it's just a big honor that he was sit with me just a big honor that he was sit with me just a big honor that he was sit with me today and talk it means a lot so thank today and talk it means a lot so thank today and talk it means a lot so thank you so much he's doing great work thank you so much he's doing great work thank you so much he's doing great work thank you Lex I'm honored to be here and uh I you Lex I'm honored to be here and uh I you Lex I'm honored to be here and uh I appreciate it was fun appreciate it was fun appreciate it was fun thanks for listening to this

thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with Robert later to conversation with Robert later to conversation with Robert later to support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you some words from Alan let me leave you some words from Alan let me leave you some words from Alan Turing in 1950 defining what is now Turing in 1950 defining what is now Turing in 1950 defining what is now termed the Turing test termed the Turing test termed the Turing test a computer would deserve to be called a computer would deserve to be called a computer would deserve to be called intelligent if it could deceive a human intelligent if it could deceive a human intelligent if it could deceive a human into believing that it was human into believing that it was human into believing that it was human thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see you next time