Ray Kurzweil: Singularity, Superintelligence, and Immortality | Lex Fridman Podcast #321

by the time we get to 2045 by the time we get to 2045 we'll be able to multiply our we'll be able to multiply our we'll be able to multiply our intelligence many millions fold intelligence many millions fold intelligence many millions fold and it's just very hard to imagine what and it's just very hard to imagine what and it's just very hard to imagine what that would be like the following is a conversation with ray the following is a conversation with ray kurzweil author inventor and futurist kurzweil author inventor and futurist kurzweil author inventor and futurist who has an optimistic view of our future who has an optimistic view of our future who has an optimistic view of our future as a human civilization as a human civilization as a human civilization predicting that exponentially improving predicting that exponentially improving predicting that exponentially improving technologies will take us to a point of technologies will take us to a point of technologies will take us to a point of a singularity beyond which a singularity beyond which a singularity beyond which super-intelligent artificial super-intelligent artificial super-intelligent artificial intelligence will transform our world in intelligence will transform our world in intelligence will transform our world in nearly unimaginable ways nearly unimaginable ways nearly unimaginable ways eighteen years ago in the book eighteen years ago in the book eighteen years ago in the book singularity is near he predicted that singularity is near he predicted that singularity is near he predicted that the onset of the singularity will happen the onset of the singularity will happen the onset of the singularity will happen in the year in the year in the year 2045. 2045. 2045. he still holds to this prediction and he still holds to this prediction and he still holds to this prediction and estimate estimate estimate in fact he's working on a new book on in fact he's working on a new book on in fact he's working on a new book on this topic that will hopefully be out this topic that will hopefully be out this topic that will hopefully be out next year next year next year this is the lex friedman podcast to this is the lex friedman podcast to this is the lex friedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends here's ray here's ray here's ray kurzweil kurzweil kurzweil in your 2005 book titled the in your 2005 book titled the in your 2005 book titled the singularities near you predicted that singularities near you predicted that singularities near you predicted that the singularity will happen in 2045.

the singularity will happen in 2045. the singularity will happen in 2045. so now 18 years later so now 18 years later so now 18 years later do you still estimate that the do you still estimate that the do you still estimate that the singularity will happen singularity will happen singularity will happen on 2045 and maybe first what is the on 2045 and maybe first what is the on 2045 and maybe first what is the singularity the technological singularity the technological singularity the technological singularity and when will it happen singularity and when will it happen singularity and when will it happen singularity is where computers really singularity is where computers really singularity is where computers really change our view of what's important change our view of what's important change our view of what's important and change who we are and change who we are and change who we are but we're getting but we're getting but we're getting close to some close to some close to some salient things that will change salient things that will change salient things that will change who we are who we are who we are a key thing is 2029 a key thing is 2029 a key thing is 2029 when when when computers will pass the turing test computers will pass the turing test computers will pass the turing test and there's also some controversy and there's also some controversy and there's also some controversy whether the turing test is valid i whether the turing test is valid i whether the turing test is valid i believe it is believe it is believe it is most people do believe that but there's most people do believe that but there's most people do believe that but there's some controversy about that but some controversy about that but some controversy about that but stanford stanford stanford got very alarmed at my got very alarmed at my got very alarmed at my prediction about 2029 i made this in prediction about 2029 i made this in prediction about 2029 i made this in 1999 1999 1999 and my book and my book and my book the age of spiritual machines right and the age of spiritual machines right and the age of spiritual machines right and then you repeated the prediction in 2005 then you repeated the prediction in 2005 then you repeated the prediction in 2005 2005. yeah 2005. yeah 2005. yeah so they held international conference so they held international conference so they held international conference you might have been aware of it you might have been aware of it you might have been aware of it of ai experts in 1999 to assess of ai experts in 1999 to assess of ai experts in 1999 to assess this view this view this view so people gave different predictions so people gave different predictions so people gave different predictions and they took a poll it was really the and they took a poll it was really the and they took a poll it was really the first time that ai experts worldwide first time that ai experts worldwide first time that ai experts worldwide were polled on this prediction were polled on this prediction were polled on this prediction and the average poll was a hundred years and the average poll was a hundred years and the average poll was a hundred years uh 20 percent believed it would never uh 20 percent believed it would never uh 20 percent believed it would never happen happen happen and that was the view in 1999

and that was the view in 1999 and that was the view in 1999 80 believed it would happen 80 believed it would happen 80 believed it would happen but not within their lifetimes but not within their lifetimes but not within their lifetimes there's been so many advances in a.i there's been so many advances in a.i there's been so many advances in a.i uh that the poll of ai experts has come uh that the poll of ai experts has come uh that the poll of ai experts has come down over the years so a year ago down over the years so a year ago down over the years so a year ago something called meticulous which may be something called meticulous which may be something called meticulous which may be aware of assesses different types of aware of assesses different types of aware of assesses different types of experts on the future experts on the future experts on the future they again assessed they again assessed they again assessed what ai experts then felt and they were what ai experts then felt and they were what ai experts then felt and they were saying 2042 saying 2042 saying 2042 for the drawing test for the drawing test for the drawing test for the turning test for the turning test for the turning test so it's coming down and i was still so it's coming down and i was still so it's coming down and i was still saying 2029 yeah a few weeks ago saying 2029 yeah a few weeks ago saying 2029 yeah a few weeks ago they again did another poll they again did another poll they again did another poll and it was 2030. and it was 2030. and it was 2030. so so so a experts now basically agree with me a experts now basically agree with me a experts now basically agree with me i haven't changed at all i've stayed i haven't changed at all i've stayed i haven't changed at all i've stayed with 2029 with 2029 with 2029 and they experts now agree with me but and they experts now agree with me but and they experts now agree with me but they didn't agree at first they didn't agree at first they didn't agree at first so so so alan touring formulated the touring test alan touring formulated the touring test alan touring formulated the touring test and and and right now right now right now what he said was very little about it i what he said was very little about it i what he said was very little about it i mean the 1950 paper where he had mean the 1950 paper where he had mean the 1950 paper where he had articulated the during test articulated the during test articulated the during test he there's like a few lines he there's like a few lines he there's like a few lines that that that uh uh uh talk about the turing test talk about the turing test talk about the turing test um um um and it really wasn't and it really wasn't and it really wasn't uh very clear how to administer it uh very clear how to administer it uh very clear how to administer it and and and he said if if they did it in like 15 he said if if they did it in like 15 he said if if they did it in like 15 minutes minutes minutes that would be sufficient which i don't

that would be sufficient which i don't that would be sufficient which i don't really think is the case really think is the case really think is the case these large language models now these large language models now these large language models now some people are convinced by it already some people are convinced by it already some people are convinced by it already i mean you can talk to it and have a i mean you can talk to it and have a i mean you can talk to it and have a conversation with you you can actually conversation with you you can actually conversation with you you can actually talk to it for hours talk to it for hours talk to it for hours so so so it requires a little more depth it requires a little more depth it requires a little more depth there's some problems with large there's some problems with large there's some problems with large language models which we can talk about language models which we can talk about language models which we can talk about um um um but but but some people are convinced some people are convinced some people are convinced by the turing test now by the turing test now by the turing test now if somebody passes the turing test if somebody passes the turing test if somebody passes the turing test what what are the implications of that what what are the implications of that what what are the implications of that does that mean that they're sentient does that mean that they're sentient does that mean that they're sentient that they're conscious that they're conscious that they're conscious or not it's not necessarily clear or not it's not necessarily clear or not it's not necessarily clear what the implications are what the implications are what the implications are anyway i i believe anyway i i believe anyway i i believe 2029 that six seven years from now 2029 that six seven years from now 2029 that six seven years from now uh uh uh we'll have something to pass this turing we'll have something to pass this turing we'll have something to pass this turing test and a valid turing test test and a valid turing test test and a valid turing test meaning it goes for hours not just a few meaning it goes for hours not just a few meaning it goes for hours not just a few minutes can you speak to that a little minutes can you speak to that a little minutes can you speak to that a little bit what is bit what is bit what is your your your formulation of the touring test you formulation of the touring test you formulation of the touring test you you've proposed a very difficult version you've proposed a very difficult version you've proposed a very difficult version of the drawing test so what does that of the drawing test so what does that of the drawing test so what does that look like basically it's just to assess look like basically it's just to assess look like basically it's just to assess it over several hours and also have a human judge that's and also have a human judge that's fairly sophisticated on what computers fairly sophisticated on what computers fairly sophisticated on what computers can do and can't do can do and can't do can do and can't do if you take somebody who's not that if you take somebody who's not that if you take somebody who's not that sophisticated sophisticated sophisticated or even a average engineer

or even a average engineer or even a average engineer they may not really assess they may not really assess they may not really assess various aspects of it so you really want various aspects of it so you really want various aspects of it so you really want the human to challenge the system the human to challenge the system the human to challenge the system exactly exactly on its ability to do exactly exactly on its ability to do exactly exactly on its ability to do things like common sense reasoning things like common sense reasoning things like common sense reasoning perhaps perhaps perhaps that's actually a key that's actually a key that's actually a key problem with large language models they problem with large language models they problem with large language models they don't do don't do don't do these kinds of tests that would involve tests that would involve assessing uh chains of reasoning but you can lose track of that you if but you can lose track of that you if you talk to them they actually can talk you talk to them they actually can talk you talk to them they actually can talk to you pretty well to you pretty well to you pretty well and you can be convinced by it and you can be convinced by it and you can be convinced by it but it's somebody that would really but it's somebody that would really but it's somebody that would really convince you that it's a human convince you that it's a human convince you that it's a human uh uh uh whatever that takes whatever that takes whatever that takes maybe it would take days or weeks maybe it would take days or weeks maybe it would take days or weeks but it would really convince you that but it would really convince you that but it would really convince you that it's human large language models large language models can appear that way you can read can appear that way you can read can appear that way you can read conversations and that they appear conversations and that they appear conversations and that they appear pretty good pretty good pretty good there are some problems with it there are some problems with it there are some problems with it it doesn't do math very well it doesn't do math very well it doesn't do math very well you can ask how many you can ask how many you can ask how many legs did 10 elephants have and they'll legs did 10 elephants have and they'll legs did 10 elephants have and they'll tell you well okay tell you well okay tell you well okay each elephant has four legs and 10 each elephant has four legs and 10 each elephant has four legs and 10 elephants so it's 40 legs and you go elephants so it's 40 legs and you go elephants so it's 40 legs and you go okay that's pretty good okay that's pretty good okay that's pretty good how many legs do 11 elephants have and how many legs do 11 elephants have and how many legs do 11 elephants have and they don't seem to understand the they don't seem to understand the they don't seem to understand the question question question do all humans understand that question do all humans understand that question do all humans understand that question no no no that's the key thing i mean how advanced that's the key thing i mean how advanced that's the key thing i mean how advanced the human do you want it to be

the human do you want it to be the human do you want it to be but we do we do expect a human to be but we do we do expect a human to be but we do we do expect a human to be able to do multi-chain reasoning able to do multi-chain reasoning able to do multi-chain reasoning to be able to take a few facts and put to be able to take a few facts and put to be able to take a few facts and put them together them together them together not perfectly and we we see that you not perfectly and we we see that you not perfectly and we we see that you know in a lot of polls that people don't know in a lot of polls that people don't know in a lot of polls that people don't do that do that do that perfectly at all but perfectly at all but perfectly at all but um so it's not it's not very well defined so it's not it's not very well defined but it's something where it really would but it's something where it really would but it's something where it really would convince you that it's a human convince you that it's a human convince you that it's a human is your intuition that large language is your intuition that large language is your intuition that large language models models models will not be will not be will not be solely the kind of system that passes solely the kind of system that passes solely the kind of system that passes the turing test in 2029 the turing test in 2029 the turing test in 2029 do we need something else no i think it do we need something else no i think it do we need something else no i think it will be a large language one but they will be a large language one but they will be a large language one but they have to go beyond what they're doing now have to go beyond what they're doing now have to go beyond what they're doing now uh i think we're getting there uh i think we're getting there uh i think we're getting there and another key issue and another key issue and another key issue is if is if is if somebody actually passes the turing test somebody actually passes the turing test somebody actually passes the turing test validly i would believe they're validly i would believe they're validly i would believe they're conscious and not everybody would say conscious and not everybody would say conscious and not everybody would say that say okay we can pass that say okay we can pass that say okay we can pass a turing test but we don't really a turing test but we don't really a turing test but we don't really believe that it's conscious that's a believe that it's conscious that's a believe that it's conscious that's a whole other issue whole other issue whole other issue but if it really passes the turning test but if it really passes the turning test but if it really passes the turning test i would believe that it's conscious i would believe that it's conscious i would believe that it's conscious but i don't believe that of uh but i don't believe that of uh but i don't believe that of uh large language models today large language models today large language models today if it appears to be conscious if it appears to be conscious if it appears to be conscious that's as good as being conscious at that's as good as being conscious at that's as good as being conscious at least for you in some least for you in some least for you in some in some sense in some sense in some sense i mean consciousness is not something i mean consciousness is not something i mean consciousness is not something that's scientific that's scientific that's scientific uh i mean i believe you're conscious

uh i mean i believe you're conscious uh i mean i believe you're conscious but it's really just a belief and we but it's really just a belief and we but it's really just a belief and we believe that about other humans that believe that about other humans that believe that about other humans that at least appear to be conscious at least appear to be conscious at least appear to be conscious um um um when you go outside of shared human when you go outside of shared human when you go outside of shared human assumption assumption assumption like our animal's conscious like our animal's conscious like our animal's conscious some people believe they're not some people believe they're not some people believe they're not conscious some people believe they are conscious some people believe they are conscious some people believe they are conscious conscious conscious and would and would and would a machine that acts just like a human a machine that acts just like a human a machine that acts just like a human be conscious i mean i believe it would be conscious i mean i believe it would be conscious i mean i believe it would be be be but but that's really a philosophical but but that's really a philosophical but but that's really a philosophical belief it's not belief it's not belief it's not you can't prove it i can't take an you can't prove it i can't take an you can't prove it i can't take an entity and prove that it's conscious entity and prove that it's conscious entity and prove that it's conscious there's nothing that you can do that there's nothing that you can do that there's nothing that you can do that would be would be would be that would indicate that that would indicate that that would indicate that it's like saying a piece of art is it's like saying a piece of art is it's like saying a piece of art is beautiful beautiful beautiful you can say it you can say it you can say it multiple people can experience a piece multiple people can experience a piece multiple people can experience a piece of art is beautiful of art is beautiful of art is beautiful uh but you can't prove it uh but you can't prove it uh but you can't prove it but it's also an extremely important but it's also an extremely important but it's also an extremely important issue yes i mean imagine if you had issue yes i mean imagine if you had issue yes i mean imagine if you had something where something where something where nobody's conscious nobody's conscious nobody's conscious the the world may as well not exist the the world may as well not exist the the world may as well not exist um um um and and and so some people like say marvin minsky so some people like say marvin minsky so some people like say marvin minsky [Music] [Music] [Music] said well consciousness is not said well consciousness is not said well consciousness is not logical it's not scientific and logical it's not scientific and logical it's not scientific and therefore we should dismiss it and therefore we should dismiss it and therefore we should dismiss it and any answer any talk about consciousness any answer any talk about consciousness any answer any talk about consciousness is is is just just just not to be believed not to be believed not to be believed but when he actually but when he actually but when he actually engaged with somebody who was conscious engaged with somebody who was conscious engaged with somebody who was conscious he actually acted as if they were

he actually acted as if they were he actually acted as if they were conscious conscious conscious he didn't ignore that he didn't ignore that he didn't ignore that he acted as if consciousness does matter he acted as if consciousness does matter he acted as if consciousness does matter exactly exactly exactly whereas he said it didn't matter whereas he said it didn't matter whereas he said it didn't matter well that's myron raminsky yeah he's well that's myron raminsky yeah he's well that's myron raminsky yeah he's full of contradictions but that's true full of contradictions but that's true full of contradictions but that's true of of a lot of people as well um but to of of a lot of people as well um but to of of a lot of people as well um but to you consciousness matters but to me it's you consciousness matters but to me it's you consciousness matters but to me it's very important very important very important but but i would say it's not a but but i would say it's not a but but i would say it's not a scientific issue scientific issue scientific issue it's a philosophical issue and people it's a philosophical issue and people it's a philosophical issue and people have different views and some people have different views and some people have different views and some people believe that believe that believe that anything that makes a decision is anything that makes a decision is anything that makes a decision is conscious so your light switch is conscious so your light switch is conscious so your light switch is conscious conscious conscious it's level of consciousness that's low it's level of consciousness that's low it's level of consciousness that's low it's not very interesting it's not very interesting it's not very interesting but but that's a consciousness but but that's a consciousness but but that's a consciousness uh and anything so a computer that makes uh and anything so a computer that makes uh and anything so a computer that makes a more interesting decision a more interesting decision a more interesting decision still not at human levels but it's also still not at human levels but it's also still not at human levels but it's also conscious and at a higher level than conscious and at a higher level than conscious and at a higher level than your light switch your light switch your light switch so that's one view so that's one view so that's one view there's many different views of what there's many different views of what there's many different views of what consciousness is so if a system passes consciousness is so if a system passes consciousness is so if a system passes the turing test the turing test the turing test it's not scientific it's not scientific it's not scientific but uh but uh but uh in issues of philosophy things like in issues of philosophy things like in issues of philosophy things like ethics start to enter the picture ethics start to enter the picture ethics start to enter the picture do you think do you think do you think there would be there would be there would be we would start contending as a human we would start contending as a human we would start contending as a human species species species about the ethics of turning off such a about the ethics of turning off such a about the ethics of turning off such a machine machine machine yeah i mean that's definitely come up yeah i mean that's definitely come up yeah i mean that's definitely come up hasn't come up in reality yet but yet hasn't come up in reality yet but yet hasn't come up in reality yet but yet but i'm talking about 2029 it's not that

but i'm talking about 2029 it's not that but i'm talking about 2029 it's not that many years from now many years from now many years from now um and so what are our obligations to it um and so what are our obligations to it um and so what are our obligations to it uh it has a different uh it has a different uh it has a different i mean a computer that's conscious has a i mean a computer that's conscious has a i mean a computer that's conscious has a little bit different little bit different little bit different uh uh uh connotations than connotations than connotations than a human we have a continuous consciousness we have a continuous consciousness we're in an entity that we're in an entity that we're in an entity that does not last forever now actually a significant portion of now actually a significant portion of humans still exist humans still exist humans still exist and are therefore still conscious and are therefore still conscious and are therefore still conscious um um um but anybody who is over a certain age but anybody who is over a certain age but anybody who is over a certain age doesn't exist anymore doesn't exist anymore doesn't exist anymore that wouldn't be true of a computer that wouldn't be true of a computer that wouldn't be true of a computer program program program you could completely turn it off you could completely turn it off you could completely turn it off and a copy of it could be stored and you and a copy of it could be stored and you and a copy of it could be stored and you could recreate it could recreate it could recreate it and so it has a different type of uh and so it has a different type of uh and so it has a different type of uh validity validity validity you could actually take it back in time you could actually take it back in time you could actually take it back in time you could eliminate its memory and have you could eliminate its memory and have you could eliminate its memory and have it go over again i mean it has a it go over again i mean it has a it go over again i mean it has a different different different kind of kind of kind of connotation than connotation than connotation than humans do well perhaps you can do the humans do well perhaps you can do the humans do well perhaps you can do the same thing with humans same thing with humans same thing with humans it's just that we don't know how to do it's just that we don't know how to do it's just that we don't know how to do that yet yeah it's possible that we that yet yeah it's possible that we that yet yeah it's possible that we figure out all of these things on the figure out all of these things on the figure out all of these things on the machine first machine first machine first but that doesn't mean the machine isn't but that doesn't mean the machine isn't but that doesn't mean the machine isn't conscious conscious conscious i mean if you look at the way people i mean if you look at the way people i mean if you look at the way people react say three cpo or other react say three cpo or other react say three cpo or other machines that are conscious in movies

machines that are conscious in movies machines that are conscious in movies uh they don't actually present how it's uh they don't actually present how it's uh they don't actually present how it's conscious but conscious but conscious but we see that they are a machine we see that they are a machine we see that they are a machine and people will believe that they are and people will believe that they are and people will believe that they are conscious conscious conscious and they'll actually worry about it if and they'll actually worry about it if and they'll actually worry about it if they get into trouble and so on they get into trouble and so on they get into trouble and so on so 2029 is going to be the first year so 2029 is going to be the first year so 2029 is going to be the first year when a a major thing happens right and when a a major thing happens right and when a a major thing happens right and that that will shake our civilization to that that will shake our civilization to that that will shake our civilization to start to consider start to consider start to consider the role of ai the role of ai the role of ai yes or no i mean yes or no i mean yes or no i mean this one guy this one guy this one guy at google claimed that at google claimed that at google claimed that the machine was conscious the machine was conscious the machine was conscious but that's just one person but that's just one person but that's just one person right so it starts to happen at scale right so it starts to happen at scale right so it starts to happen at scale well that's exactly right because most well that's exactly right because most well that's exactly right because most people have not taken that position i people have not taken that position i people have not taken that position i don't take that position i mean i've don't take that position i mean i've don't take that position i mean i've used used used uh uh uh different things different things different things um uh like this and they don't appear to um uh like this and they don't appear to um uh like this and they don't appear to to me to be conscious to me to be conscious to me to be conscious as we eliminate various problems of of as we eliminate various problems of of as we eliminate various problems of of these these these large language models large language models large language models uh more and more people will accept that uh more and more people will accept that uh more and more people will accept that they're conscious so when we get to 2029 they're conscious so when we get to 2029 they're conscious so when we get to 2029 more more more i think a large i think a large i think a large fraction of people will believe that fraction of people will believe that fraction of people will believe that they're conscious they're conscious they're conscious so it's not going to happen all at once so it's not going to happen all at once so it's not going to happen all at once i believe that what actually happen i believe that what actually happen i believe that what actually happen gradually and it's already started to gradually and it's already started to gradually and it's already started to happen happen happen and so that uh takes us one step closer and so that uh takes us one step closer and so that uh takes us one step closer to the singularity another step then is to the singularity another step then is to the singularity another step then is in the 2030s

in the 2030s in the 2030s when we can when we can when we can actually connect our neocortex which is actually connect our neocortex which is actually connect our neocortex which is where we do our thinking where we do our thinking where we do our thinking to to to computers computers computers and i mean just as this actually gains a and i mean just as this actually gains a and i mean just as this actually gains a lot to being connected to lot to being connected to lot to being connected to computers that will amplify its computers that will amplify its computers that will amplify its abilities abilities abilities i mean if this did not have any i mean if this did not have any i mean if this did not have any connection it would be pretty stupid it connection it would be pretty stupid it connection it would be pretty stupid it could not answer any of your questions could not answer any of your questions could not answer any of your questions if you're just listening to this by the if you're just listening to this by the if you're just listening to this by the way way way where is holding up where is holding up where is holding up the uh the all-powerful the uh the all-powerful the uh the all-powerful uh smartphone so we're gonna do that uh smartphone so we're gonna do that uh smartphone so we're gonna do that directly from our brains directly from our brains directly from our brains i mean these are pretty good these i mean these are pretty good these i mean these are pretty good these already have amplified our intelligence already have amplified our intelligence already have amplified our intelligence i'm already much smarter than i would i'm already much smarter than i would i'm already much smarter than i would otherwise be if i didn't have this otherwise be if i didn't have this otherwise be if i didn't have this because i remember my first book the age because i remember my first book the age because i remember my first book the age of intelligent machines there was no way to get information from there was no way to get information from computers i actually would go to a computers i actually would go to a computers i actually would go to a library find a book library find a book library find a book find the page that had an information i find the page that had an information i find the page that had an information i wanted wanted wanted and i'd go to the copier and my most and i'd go to the copier and my most and i'd go to the copier and my most significant significant significant uh uh uh information tool was a roll of quarters information tool was a roll of quarters information tool was a roll of quarters where i could feed the where i could feed the where i could feed the copier copier copier so so so we're already we're already we're already greatly advanced that we have these greatly advanced that we have these greatly advanced that we have these things things things there's a few problems with it there's a few problems with it there's a few problems with it first of all i constantly put it down first of all i constantly put it down first of all i constantly put it down and i don't remember where i put it and i don't remember where i put it and i don't remember where i put it i've actually never lost it but i've actually never lost it but i've actually never lost it but you have to find it you have to find it you have to find it then you have to turn it on so there's a

then you have to turn it on so there's a then you have to turn it on so there's a certain amount of steps it would certain amount of steps it would certain amount of steps it would actually be quite useful actually be quite useful actually be quite useful if someone would just listen to your if someone would just listen to your if someone would just listen to your conversation conversation conversation and say and say and say uh oh that's uh oh that's uh oh that's you know so-and-so actress um and tell you know so-and-so actress um and tell you know so-and-so actress um and tell you what you're talking about so going you what you're talking about so going you what you're talking about so going from active to passive where just from active to passive where just from active to passive where just permeates permeates permeates your whole life yeah exactly the way your whole life yeah exactly the way your whole life yeah exactly the way your brain does when you're awake your brain does when you're awake your brain does when you're awake your brain is always there your brain is always there your brain is always there right now that's something that could right now that's something that could right now that's something that could actually just just about be done today actually just just about be done today actually just just about be done today where would listen to your conversation where would listen to your conversation where would listen to your conversation understand what you're saying understand understand what you're saying understand understand what you're saying understand what you're what you're what you're not missing and give you that not missing and give you that not missing and give you that information information information but another step is to actually go but another step is to actually go but another step is to actually go inside your brain yeah and there are some and there are some prototypes where you can connect your prototypes where you can connect your prototypes where you can connect your brain brain brain they actually don't have the amount of they actually don't have the amount of they actually don't have the amount of bandwidth that we need bandwidth that we need bandwidth that we need they can work but they work fairly they can work but they work fairly they can work but they work fairly slowly slowly slowly so if if it actually would connect to so if if it actually would connect to so if if it actually would connect to your neocortex your neocortex your neocortex and the neocortex which i and the neocortex which i and the neocortex which i described in how to create a mind described in how to create a mind described in how to create a mind the neocortex is actually it has different levels and as you go up it has different levels and as you go up the levels the levels the levels it's kind of like a pyramid the top it's kind of like a pyramid the top it's kind of like a pyramid the top level is fairly small level is fairly small level is fairly small and that's the level where you want to and that's the level where you want to and that's the level where you want to connect connect connect uh uh uh these these these brain extenders brain extenders brain extenders um so i believe that will happen in the so i believe that will happen in the 2030s we will actually

2030s we will actually 2030s we will actually so just the way this is greatly so just the way this is greatly so just the way this is greatly amplified by being connected to the amplified by being connected to the amplified by being connected to the cloud cloud cloud we can connect our own brain to the we can connect our own brain to the we can connect our own brain to the cloud cloud cloud and just do what we can do by using this just do what we can do by using this machine do you think it would look like machine do you think it would look like machine do you think it would look like uh the brain computer interface of like uh the brain computer interface of like uh the brain computer interface of like neuralink so would it be well never neuralink so would it be well never neuralink so would it be well never length it's an attempt to do that length it's an attempt to do that length it's an attempt to do that it doesn't have the bandwidth that we it doesn't have the bandwidth that we it doesn't have the bandwidth that we need need need um yet right right but i think um yet right right but i think um yet right right but i think i mean they're going to get permission i mean they're going to get permission i mean they're going to get permission for this because there are a lot of for this because there are a lot of for this because there are a lot of people who absolutely need it because people who absolutely need it because people who absolutely need it because they can't communicate and i know a they can't communicate and i know a they can't communicate and i know a couple of people like that who couple of people like that who couple of people like that who have ideas and they cannot have ideas and they cannot have ideas and they cannot they don't they don't they don't they cannot move their muscles and so on they cannot move their muscles and so on they cannot move their muscles and so on they can't communicate they can't communicate they can't communicate so for them this would be very valuable so for them this would be very valuable so for them this would be very valuable but we could all use it but we could all use it but we could all use it basically basically basically be be be uh uh uh turn us into something that would be turn us into something that would be turn us into something that would be like we have a phone but like we have a phone but like we have a phone but it would be in our minds it would be it would be in our minds it would be it would be in our minds it would be kind of instantaneous and maybe kind of instantaneous and maybe kind of instantaneous and maybe communication between two people would communication between two people would communication between two people would not require not require not require this low bandwidth mechanism of language this low bandwidth mechanism of language this low bandwidth mechanism of language yes spoken word exactly we don't know yes spoken word exactly we don't know yes spoken word exactly we don't know what that would be although we do know what that would be although we do know what that would be although we do know that that that computers can share information computers can share information computers can share information like language instantly like language instantly like language instantly they can share they can share they can share many many books in a second

many many books in a second many many books in a second so we could do that as well so we could do that as well so we could do that as well if you look at what our brain does if you look at what our brain does if you look at what our brain does it actually it actually it actually can manipulate different parameters can manipulate different parameters can manipulate different parameters so we we talk about these large language so we we talk about these large language so we we talk about these large language models models models um um um i mean i had written that it requires a certain it requires a certain amount of information in order to amount of information in order to amount of information in order to uh be effective uh be effective uh be effective and that we would not see and that we would not see and that we would not see ai really being effective until it got ai really being effective until it got ai really being effective until it got to that level to that level to that level and we had large language models there and we had large language models there and we had large language models there were like 10 billion bytes didn't work were like 10 billion bytes didn't work were like 10 billion bytes didn't work very well they finally got to 100 very well they finally got to 100 very well they finally got to 100 billion bytes and now they work fairly billion bytes and now they work fairly billion bytes and now they work fairly well and and now we're going to a well and and now we're going to a well and and now we're going to a trillion bytes trillion bytes trillion bytes if you say uh if you say uh if you say uh lambda has a hundred a billion bytes lambda has a hundred a billion bytes lambda has a hundred a billion bytes what does that mean well what what does that mean well what what does that mean well what what if you had something that had one what if you had something that had one what if you had something that had one byte one one parameter byte one one parameter byte one one parameter maybe you want to tell whether or not maybe you want to tell whether or not maybe you want to tell whether or not something's uh something's uh something's uh an elephant or not and so you put in an elephant or not and so you put in an elephant or not and so you put in something that would detect its trunk something that would detect its trunk something that would detect its trunk if it has a trunk it's an elephant if it if it has a trunk it's an elephant if it if it has a trunk it's an elephant if it doesn't have a trunk it's not an doesn't have a trunk it's not an doesn't have a trunk it's not an elephant elephant elephant that will work that will work that will work fairly well there's a few problems with fairly well there's a few problems with fairly well there's a few problems with and it and it and it really wouldn't be able to tell what the really wouldn't be able to tell what the really wouldn't be able to tell what the trunk is but anyway and maybe other trunk is but anyway and maybe other trunk is but anyway and maybe other things other than elephants have trunks things other than elephants have trunks things other than elephants have trunks you might get really confused yeah you might get really confused yeah you might get really confused yeah exactly uh i'm not sure which animals exactly uh i'm not sure which animals exactly uh i'm not sure which animals have trunks but you know

have trunks but you know have trunks but you know that's how you define a trunk but yeah that's how you define a trunk but yeah that's how you define a trunk but yeah that's one parameter that's one parameter that's one parameter you can do okay so these things have a you can do okay so these things have a you can do okay so these things have a hundred billion parameters so they're hundred billion parameters so they're hundred billion parameters so they're able to deal with very complex issues able to deal with very complex issues able to deal with very complex issues all kinds of trunks all kinds of trunks all kinds of trunks human beings actually have a little bit human beings actually have a little bit human beings actually have a little bit more than that but they're getting to more than that but they're getting to more than that but they're getting to the point where they can emulate humans the point where they can emulate humans the point where they can emulate humans um um um if we were able to connect this to our if we were able to connect this to our if we were able to connect this to our neocortex neocortex neocortex we would basically add we would basically add we would basically add more of these more of these more of these abilities to make distinctions abilities to make distinctions abilities to make distinctions and it could ultimately be much smaller and it could ultimately be much smaller and it could ultimately be much smaller and also be attached to information that and also be attached to information that and also be attached to information that we feel is reliable we feel is reliable we feel is reliable um so that's where we're headed so you um so that's where we're headed so you um so that's where we're headed so you think that there will be a merger in the think that there will be a merger in the think that there will be a merger in the 30s 30s 30s an increasing amount of merging between an increasing amount of merging between an increasing amount of merging between the either human brain and the the either human brain and the the either human brain and the ai brain ai brain ai brain exactly exactly exactly and the ai brain is really an and the ai brain is really an and the ai brain is really an emulation of human beings i mean that's emulation of human beings i mean that's emulation of human beings i mean that's why we're creating them why we're creating them why we're creating them because human beings act the same way because human beings act the same way because human beings act the same way and this is basically to amplify them i and this is basically to amplify them i and this is basically to amplify them i mean this amplifies our brain um mean this amplifies our brain um mean this amplifies our brain um it's a little bit clumsy to interact it's a little bit clumsy to interact it's a little bit clumsy to interact with but it definitely with but it definitely with but it definitely it's a it's a it's a you know way beyond what what we had 15 you know way beyond what what we had 15 you know way beyond what what we had 15 years ago years ago years ago but the implementation becomes different but the implementation becomes different but the implementation becomes different just like a bird versus the airplane the just like a bird versus the airplane the just like a bird versus the airplane the even though the ai brain is an emulation

even though the ai brain is an emulation even though the ai brain is an emulation it starts adding features we might not it starts adding features we might not it starts adding features we might not otherwise otherwise otherwise have like ability to consume a huge have like ability to consume a huge have like ability to consume a huge amount of amount of amount of information quickly like look up information quickly like look up information quickly like look up thousands of wikipedia articles in one thousands of wikipedia articles in one thousands of wikipedia articles in one take take take exactly exactly exactly we can get we can get we can get for example issues like simulated for example issues like simulated for example issues like simulated biology where it can biology where it can biology where it can uh simulate uh simulate uh simulate many different things at once we already had one example of simulated we already had one example of simulated biology which is the moderna vaccine and that's going to be now the way in and that's going to be now the way in which we create which we create which we create medications medications medications but they were able to simulate but they were able to simulate but they were able to simulate what each what each what each example of an mrna would do to a human example of an mrna would do to a human example of an mrna would do to a human being and they were able to simulate being and they were able to simulate being and they were able to simulate that quite reliably that quite reliably that quite reliably and we actually simulated billions of and we actually simulated billions of and we actually simulated billions of different mrna sequences different mrna sequences different mrna sequences and they found the ones that they were and they found the ones that they were and they found the ones that they were the best and they created the vaccine the best and they created the vaccine the best and they created the vaccine and they did and talked about doing that and they did and talked about doing that and they did and talked about doing that quickly quickly quickly they did that in two days now how long they did that in two days now how long they did that in two days now how long would a human being take to simulate would a human being take to simulate would a human being take to simulate billions of different mrna sequences i i billions of different mrna sequences i i billions of different mrna sequences i i don't know that we could do it at all don't know that we could do it at all don't know that we could do it at all but it would but it would but it would take many years take many years take many years they did it in two days they did it in two days they did it in two days and and and one of the reasons that people didn't one of the reasons that people didn't one of the reasons that people didn't like vaccines like vaccines like vaccines is because it was done too quickly you is because it was done too quickly you is because it was done too quickly you know it's done too fast know it's done too fast know it's done too fast and they actually included the time it and they actually included the time it and they actually included the time it took to test it out which was 10 months

took to test it out which was 10 months took to test it out which was 10 months so they figured okay it took 10 months so they figured okay it took 10 months so they figured okay it took 10 months to create this to create this to create this actually it took us two days actually it took us two days actually it took us two days and we also will be able to ultimately and we also will be able to ultimately and we also will be able to ultimately do the tests in a few days as well do the tests in a few days as well do the tests in a few days as well oh because we can stimulate how the body oh because we can stimulate how the body oh because we can stimulate how the body will respond to it yeah will respond to it yeah will respond to it yeah that's a little bit more complicated that's a little bit more complicated that's a little bit more complicated because the body's because the body's because the body's has a lot of different has a lot of different has a lot of different elements and we have to simulate all of elements and we have to simulate all of elements and we have to simulate all of that that that but that's coming as well but that's coming as well but that's coming as well so ultimately we could create it in a so ultimately we could create it in a so ultimately we could create it in a few days and then test it in a few days few days and then test it in a few days few days and then test it in a few days and would be done and would be done and would be done uh and we can do that with every type of uh and we can do that with every type of uh and we can do that with every type of medical ins you know insufficiency that medical ins you know insufficiency that medical ins you know insufficiency that we have we have we have so curing all diseases so curing all diseases so curing all diseases yeah yeah yeah improving improving improving certain functions of the body certain functions of the body certain functions of the body supplements drugs supplements drugs supplements drugs for recreation for health for for recreation for health for for recreation for health for performance for productivity all that performance for productivity all that performance for productivity all that well that's where we're headed because i well that's where we're headed because i well that's where we're headed because i mean right right now we have a very mean right right now we have a very mean right right now we have a very inefficient way of creating these new inefficient way of creating these new inefficient way of creating these new medications medications medications um um um but we've already shown it and the but we've already shown it and the but we've already shown it and the moderna vaccine is actually the best moderna vaccine is actually the best moderna vaccine is actually the best uh of the of the vaccines we've had uh of the of the vaccines we've had uh of the of the vaccines we've had and it literally took two days to create and it literally took two days to create and it literally took two days to create uh and we'll get to the point where we uh and we'll get to the point where we uh and we'll get to the point where we can test it out also quickly can test it out also quickly can test it out also quickly are you impressed by alpha fold are you impressed by alpha fold are you impressed by alpha fold and uh the the solution to the protein and uh the the solution to the protein and uh the the solution to the protein folding which essentially is simulating folding which essentially is simulating folding which essentially is simulating modeling this modeling this modeling this primitive building block of life which

primitive building block of life which primitive building block of life which is a protein and it's 3d shape is a protein and it's 3d shape is a protein and it's 3d shape it's pretty remarkable that they can it's pretty remarkable that they can it's pretty remarkable that they can actually predict what the 3d shape of actually predict what the 3d shape of actually predict what the 3d shape of these things are but they did it with these things are but they did it with these things are but they did it with the same the same the same type of neural net that type of neural net that type of neural net that won for example the go won for example the go won for example the go uh test uh test uh test so it's all the same so it's all the same so it's all the same it's all the same it's all the same it's all the same they took that same thing they took that same thing they took that same thing and just changed the rules to chess and just changed the rules to chess and just changed the rules to chess and within a couple of days it now and within a couple of days it now and within a couple of days it now played a master level of chess greater played a master level of chess greater played a master level of chess greater than any human being and and the same thing then worked for and and the same thing then worked for alpha foam alpha foam alpha foam uh which no human had done i mean human uh which no human had done i mean human uh which no human had done i mean human beings could do beings could do beings could do the best humans could maybe do 15 the best humans could maybe do 15 the best humans could maybe do 15 20 20 20 uh uh uh of figuring out what the shape would be of figuring out what the shape would be of figuring out what the shape would be and and and this after a few takes it out it this after a few takes it out it this after a few takes it out it ultimately did just about 100 percent ultimately did just about 100 percent ultimately did just about 100 percent do you still think the singularity will do you still think the singularity will do you still think the singularity will happen in 2045 happen in 2045 happen in 2045 and what does that look like and what does that look like and what does that look like you know once we can you know once we can you know once we can amplify our brain with computers amplify our brain with computers amplify our brain with computers directly directly directly which will happen in the 2030s that's which will happen in the 2030s that's which will happen in the 2030s that's going to keep growing going to keep growing going to keep growing it's another whole theme which is the it's another whole theme which is the it's another whole theme which is the exponential growth of computing power exponential growth of computing power exponential growth of computing power yeah so looking at price performance of yeah so looking at price performance of yeah so looking at price performance of computation from 1939 to 2021. right so computation from 1939 to 2021. right so computation from 1939 to 2021. right so that starts that starts that starts with the very first computer actually

with the very first computer actually with the very first computer actually created by german during world war ii created by german during world war ii created by german during world war ii and you might have and you might have and you might have thought that that might be significant thought that that might be significant thought that that might be significant but actually the germans but actually the germans but actually the germans didn't think computers were significant didn't think computers were significant didn't think computers were significant and they completely rejected it and they completely rejected it and they completely rejected it and the second one was also the zeus ii and the second one was also the zeus ii and the second one was also the zeus ii and by the way we're looking at a plot and by the way we're looking at a plot and by the way we're looking at a plot with the x-axis being the year from 1935 with the x-axis being the year from 1935 with the x-axis being the year from 1935 to to to 2025 2025 2025 and on the y-axis and log scale is and on the y-axis and log scale is and on the y-axis and log scale is competition per second per competition per second per competition per second per constant dollar so dollar normalized constant dollar so dollar normalized constant dollar so dollar normalized inflation inflation inflation and it's growing linearly on the log and it's growing linearly on the log and it's growing linearly on the log scale which means it's growing scale which means it's growing scale which means it's growing exponentially the third one was the exponentially the third one was the exponentially the third one was the british computer british computer british computer which the allies did take very seriously which the allies did take very seriously which the allies did take very seriously and it cracked the and it cracked the and it cracked the german german german code code code and enabled the british to win the and enabled the british to win the and enabled the british to win the battle of britain battle of britain battle of britain which otherwise absolutely would not which otherwise absolutely would not which otherwise absolutely would not have happened if they hadn't cracked the have happened if they hadn't cracked the have happened if they hadn't cracked the code using that code using that code using that computer but that's an exponential graph computer but that's an exponential graph computer but that's an exponential graph so a straight line on that graph is so a straight line on that graph is so a straight line on that graph is exponential growth exponential growth exponential growth and you see 80 years of exponential and you see 80 years of exponential and you see 80 years of exponential growth growth growth and and and i would say about every five years and i would say about every five years and i would say about every five years and this happened shortly before the this happened shortly before the this happened shortly before the pandemic pandemic pandemic people saying well they call it moore's people saying well they call it moore's people saying well they call it moore's law which is not the correct law which is not the correct law which is not the correct because that's not all intel because that's not all intel because that's not all intel in fact it started decades before intel in fact it started decades before intel in fact it started decades before intel was even created was even created was even created it wasn't with transistors formed into a it wasn't with transistors formed into a it wasn't with transistors formed into a grid

grid grid so it's not just transistor count or so it's not just transistor count or so it's not just transistor count or transistor size right that's a bunch of transistor size right that's a bunch of transistor size right that's a bunch of stars stars stars relays relays relays then went to vacuum tubes then went to vacuum tubes then went to vacuum tubes then went to individual then went to individual then went to individual transistors transistors transistors and and then to integrated circuits and and then to integrated circuits and and then to integrated circuits um um um and the and the and the integrated circuits actually starts like integrated circuits actually starts like integrated circuits actually starts like in the middle of this graph in the middle of this graph in the middle of this graph and it has nothing to do with intel and it has nothing to do with intel and it has nothing to do with intel intel actually was intel actually was intel actually was a key part of this a key part of this a key part of this but a few years ago they they stopped but a few years ago they they stopped but a few years ago they they stopped making the making the making the fastest chips fastest chips fastest chips uh uh uh but if you take the fastest chip of any but if you take the fastest chip of any but if you take the fastest chip of any technology technology technology in that year in that year in that year you get this kind of graph you get this kind of graph you get this kind of graph and it's definitely continuing for 80 and it's definitely continuing for 80 and it's definitely continuing for 80 years so you don't think moore's law years so you don't think moore's law years so you don't think moore's law broadly defined broadly defined broadly defined is dead is dead is dead it's been declared dead multiple times it's been declared dead multiple times it's been declared dead multiple times throughout this process i don't like the throughout this process i don't like the throughout this process i don't like the term moore's law because it has nothing term moore's law because it has nothing term moore's law because it has nothing to do with moore or with the intel to do with moore or with the intel to do with moore or with the intel but yes the exponential growth of computing is the exponential growth of computing is continuing continuing continuing yes and has never stopped from various yes and has never stopped from various yes and has never stopped from various sources i mean it went through world war sources i mean it went through world war sources i mean it went through world war ii it went through ii it went through ii it went through global recessions global recessions global recessions it's just continuing and if you continue that out and if you continue that out along with along with along with software gains which is a whole other software gains which is a whole other software gains which is a whole other issue and they really multiply whatever you and they really multiply whatever you get from software gains you multiply by

get from software gains you multiply by get from software gains you multiply by the computer gains the computer gains the computer gains you get faster and faster speed you get faster and faster speed you get faster and faster speed uh this is actually the fastest computer uh this is actually the fastest computer uh this is actually the fastest computer models models models that have been created and that actually that have been created and that actually that have been created and that actually expands expands expands roughly twice a year like every six roughly twice a year like every six roughly twice a year like every six months it expands by two months it expands by two months it expands by two so we're looking at a plot from 2010 to so we're looking at a plot from 2010 to so we're looking at a plot from 2010 to 2022 2022 2022 on the x-axis is the publication date of on the x-axis is the publication date of on the x-axis is the publication date of the model and the perhaps sometimes the the model and the perhaps sometimes the the model and the perhaps sometimes the actual paper associated with it and on actual paper associated with it and on actual paper associated with it and on the y-axis is training compute and flops the y-axis is training compute and flops the y-axis is training compute and flops and so basically this is and so basically this is and so basically this is looking at the increase in the looking at the increase in the looking at the increase in the not transistors but the computational not transistors but the computational not transistors but the computational power of neural networks yeah it's the power of neural networks yeah it's the power of neural networks yeah it's the computational power that created these computational power that created these computational power that created these models models models and that's doubled every six months and that's doubled every six months and that's doubled every six months which is even faster than transistor which is even faster than transistor which is even faster than transistor division yeah division yeah division yeah actually since it goes faster than the actually since it goes faster than the actually since it goes faster than the the amount of cost the amount of cost the amount of cost this has actually become a greater this has actually become a greater this has actually become a greater investment investment investment to create these to create these to create these but at any rate by the time we get to but at any rate by the time we get to but at any rate by the time we get to 2045 2045 2045 we'll be able to multiply our we'll be able to multiply our we'll be able to multiply our intelligence many millions fold intelligence many millions fold intelligence many millions fold and it's just very hard to imagine what and it's just very hard to imagine what and it's just very hard to imagine what that would be like that would be like that would be like and that's the singularity what we can't and that's the singularity what we can't and that's the singularity what we can't even imagine right that's why we call it even imagine right that's why we call it even imagine right that's why we call it the singularity because the singularity the singularity because the singularity the singularity because the singularity in physics in physics in physics something gets sucked into its something gets sucked into its something gets sucked into its singularity and you can't tell what's singularity and you can't tell what's singularity and you can't tell what's going on in there

going on in there going on in there because no information can get out of it because no information can get out of it because no information can get out of it there's various problems with that but there's various problems with that but there's various problems with that but that's the idea it's too that's the idea it's too that's the idea it's too um um um it's too much beyond what we can imagine it's too much beyond what we can imagine it's too much beyond what we can imagine do you think it's possible we don't do you think it's possible we don't do you think it's possible we don't notice notice notice that what the singularity actually feels that what the singularity actually feels that what the singularity actually feels like like like is we just live through it is we just live through it is we just live through it with exponentially increasing with exponentially increasing with exponentially increasing uh cognitive capabilities uh cognitive capabilities uh cognitive capabilities and we almost because everything's and we almost because everything's and we almost because everything's moving so quickly don't moving so quickly don't moving so quickly don't aren't really able to introspect that aren't really able to introspect that aren't really able to introspect that our life has changed yeah but i mean we our life has changed yeah but i mean we our life has changed yeah but i mean we will have that much greater capacity to will have that much greater capacity to will have that much greater capacity to understand things so we should be able understand things so we should be able understand things so we should be able to look back to look back to look back looking at history understand history looking at history understand history looking at history understand history but but we will need people but but we will need people but but we will need people basically like you and me to actually basically like you and me to actually basically like you and me to actually think about this think about it think about this think about it think about this think about it but we might be distracted by all the but we might be distracted by all the but we might be distracted by all the other sources of entertainment and fun other sources of entertainment and fun other sources of entertainment and fun because because because the exponential power of intellect is the exponential power of intellect is the exponential power of intellect is growing but also growing but also growing but also there'll be a lot of fun uh there'll be a lot of fun uh there'll be a lot of fun uh the the amount of ways you can have you the the amount of ways you can have you the the amount of ways you can have you know i mean we already have a lot of fun know i mean we already have a lot of fun know i mean we already have a lot of fun with computer games and so on that are with computer games and so on that are with computer games and so on that are really quite remarkable really quite remarkable really quite remarkable what do you think about uh the digital what do you think about uh the digital what do you think about uh the digital world uh the metaverse world uh the metaverse world uh the metaverse virtual reality will that have a virtual reality will that have a virtual reality will that have a component in this or will most of our component in this or will most of our component in this or will most of our advancement be in physical realm well advancement be in physical realm well advancement be in physical realm well that's a little bit like second life that's a little bit like second life that's a little bit like second life although the second life actually didn't although the second life actually didn't although the second life actually didn't work very well because it couldn't

work very well because it couldn't work very well because it couldn't actually handle too many people and actually handle too many people and actually handle too many people and i don't think the metaverse has i don't think the metaverse has i don't think the metaverse has come to being i think there will be come to being i think there will be come to being i think there will be something like that something like that something like that it won't necessarily be it won't necessarily be it won't necessarily be from that one company from that one company from that one company i mean there's going to be competitors i mean there's going to be competitors i mean there's going to be competitors but yes we're going to live increasingly but yes we're going to live increasingly but yes we're going to live increasingly online online online and particularly when if our brains are and particularly when if our brains are and particularly when if our brains are online i mean how could we not be online online i mean how could we not be online online i mean how could we not be online do you think it's possible that given do you think it's possible that given do you think it's possible that given this merger with ai most of our this merger with ai most of our this merger with ai most of our meaningful meaningful meaningful interactions will be in this interactions will be in this interactions will be in this virtual world virtual world virtual world most of our life we fall in love we make most of our life we fall in love we make most of our life we fall in love we make friends friends friends we come up with ideas we do we come up with ideas we do we come up with ideas we do collaborations we have fun i actually collaborations we have fun i actually collaborations we have fun i actually know somebody who's marrying somebody know somebody who's marrying somebody know somebody who's marrying somebody that they never met yeah that they never met yeah that they never met yeah uh i think they just met her briefly uh i think they just met her briefly uh i think they just met her briefly before the wedding but she actu she before the wedding but she actu she before the wedding but she actu she actually fell in love with this other actually fell in love with this other actually fell in love with this other person person person uh never having met them uh never having met them uh never having met them uh and i think it's uh and i think it's uh and i think it's i think the love is real so i think the love is real so i think the love is real so that's a beautiful story but do you that's a beautiful story but do you that's a beautiful story but do you think that story think that story think that story is one that might be experienced as is one that might be experienced as is one that might be experienced as opposed to by opposed to by opposed to by hundreds of thousands of people but hundreds of thousands of people but hundreds of thousands of people but instead by hundreds of millions of instead by hundreds of millions of instead by hundreds of millions of people people people i mean it really gives you appreciation i mean it really gives you appreciation i mean it really gives you appreciation for these virtual ways of for these virtual ways of for these virtual ways of communicating communicating communicating uh and if anybody can do it then it's uh and if anybody can do it then it's uh and if anybody can do it then it's really not such a really not such a really not such a freak story uh so i think more and more freak story uh so i think more and more freak story uh so i think more and more people will do that people will do that people will do that but that's turning our back on our

but that's turning our back on our but that's turning our back on our entire history of evolution or the old entire history of evolution or the old entire history of evolution or the old days we used to fall in love by days we used to fall in love by days we used to fall in love by holding hands holding hands holding hands and sitting by the fire that kind of and sitting by the fire that kind of and sitting by the fire that kind of stuff here you're actually i actually stuff here you're actually i actually stuff here you're actually i actually have five patents on where you can hold have five patents on where you can hold have five patents on where you can hold hands hands hands even if you're separated even if you're separated even if you're separated great um great um great um so the touch the sense it's all just so the touch the sense it's all just so the touch the sense it's all just senses it's all just yeah i mean senses it's all just yeah i mean senses it's all just yeah i mean it is it is it is it's not just that you're touching it's not just that you're touching it's not just that you're touching someone or not there's a whole way of someone or not there's a whole way of someone or not there's a whole way of doing it and it's very subtle and doing it and it's very subtle and doing it and it's very subtle and but ultimately we can but ultimately we can but ultimately we can emulate emulate emulate all of that all of that all of that are you excited by that future are you excited by that future are you excited by that future do you worry about that future i have certain worries about the future i have certain worries about the future but not not that virtual touch but not not that virtual touch but not not that virtual touch [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] well i agree with you well i agree with you well i agree with you you described six stages in the you described six stages in the you described six stages in the evolution of information processing in evolution of information processing in evolution of information processing in the universe as you started to describe the universe as you started to describe the universe as you started to describe can you maybe can you maybe can you maybe talk through some of those stages from talk through some of those stages from talk through some of those stages from the physics and chemistry to dna and the physics and chemistry to dna and the physics and chemistry to dna and brains and then to the to the very end brains and then to the to the very end brains and then to the to the very end to the very beautiful end to the very beautiful end to the very beautiful end of this process well it actually gets of this process well it actually gets of this process well it actually gets more rapid more rapid more rapid so physics and chemistry that's how we so physics and chemistry that's how we so physics and chemistry that's how we started started started um um um the very beginning of the universe we the very beginning of the universe we the very beginning of the universe we had lots of electrons and various things had lots of electrons and various things had lots of electrons and various things traveling around traveling around traveling around and and that took actually many billions

and and that took actually many billions and and that took actually many billions of years of years of years kind of jumping ahead here kind of jumping ahead here kind of jumping ahead here to kind of to kind of to kind of some of the last stages where we have some of the last stages where we have some of the last stages where we have things like love and creativity things like love and creativity things like love and creativity it's really quite remarkable that that it's really quite remarkable that that it's really quite remarkable that that happens happens happens but finally physics and chemistry but finally physics and chemistry but finally physics and chemistry created biology created biology created biology and dna and dna and dna and now you had actually one type of and now you had actually one type of and now you had actually one type of molecule that described the cutting edge molecule that described the cutting edge molecule that described the cutting edge of this process of this process of this process and we and we and we go from physics and chemistry to biology and finally biology created brains and finally biology created brains i mean not all not everything that's i mean not all not everything that's i mean not all not everything that's created by biology has a brain created by biology has a brain created by biology has a brain but eventually brains came along but eventually brains came along but eventually brains came along and all of this is happening faster and and all of this is happening faster and and all of this is happening faster and faster yeah faster yeah faster yeah it created increasingly complex it created increasingly complex it created increasingly complex organisms organisms organisms another key thing is actually not just another key thing is actually not just another key thing is actually not just brains but our thumb because because there's a lot of animals because because there's a lot of animals with brains even bigger than humans with brains even bigger than humans with brains even bigger than humans elephants have a bigger brain elephants have a bigger brain elephants have a bigger brain whales have a bigger brain whales have a bigger brain whales have a bigger brain but they've not created technology but they've not created technology but they've not created technology because they don't have a thumb because they don't have a thumb because they don't have a thumb so that's one of the really key elements so that's one of the really key elements so that's one of the really key elements in the evolution of humans this uh in the evolution of humans this uh in the evolution of humans this uh physical manipulator device right that's physical manipulator device right that's physical manipulator device right that's useful for puzzle solving in the useful for puzzle solving in the useful for puzzle solving in the physical reality so i could think i

physical reality so i could think i physical reality so i could think i could look at a tree and go oh i can could look at a tree and go oh i can could look at a tree and go oh i can actually strip that branch down and actually strip that branch down and actually strip that branch down and eliminate the leaves and carve it tip on eliminate the leaves and carve it tip on eliminate the leaves and carve it tip on it and it and it and great technology great technology great technology uh and you can't do that if you don't uh and you can't do that if you don't uh and you can't do that if you don't have a thumb have a thumb have a thumb yeah um yeah um yeah um so so so uh uh uh thumbs and created technology thumbs and created technology thumbs and created technology and technology also and technology also and technology also had a memory had a memory had a memory and now those memories are competing and now those memories are competing and now those memories are competing with with with the the the scale and scope of human beings scale and scope of human beings scale and scope of human beings and ultimately we'll go beyond it and ultimately we'll go beyond it and ultimately we'll go beyond it and then we're going to merge and then we're going to merge and then we're going to merge human technology with human technology with human technology with uh uh uh with human intelligence with human intelligence with human intelligence and understand how human and understand how human and understand how human intelligence works which i think we intelligence works which i think we intelligence works which i think we already do already do already do and we're putting that into and we're putting that into and we're putting that into uh uh uh our human technology our human technology our human technology so create the technology inspired by our so create the technology inspired by our so create the technology inspired by our own intelligence and then that own intelligence and then that own intelligence and then that technology supersedes us in terms of its technology supersedes us in terms of its technology supersedes us in terms of its capabilities and we ride along or do do capabilities and we ride along or do do capabilities and we ride along or do do you ultimately see it as we ride along you ultimately see it as we ride along you ultimately see it as we ride along but a lot of people don't see that they but a lot of people don't see that they but a lot of people don't see that they say well say well say well okay you've got humans and you've got okay you've got humans and you've got okay you've got humans and you've got machines and there's no way we can machines and there's no way we can machines and there's no way we can ultimately compete with humans and you ultimately compete with humans and you ultimately compete with humans and you can already see that can already see that can already see that lisa dahl who's like the best lisa dahl who's like the best lisa dahl who's like the best go player in the world says he's not go player in the world says he's not go player in the world says he's not going to play go anymore yeah going to play go anymore yeah going to play go anymore yeah because playing go for human that was

because playing go for human that was because playing go for human that was like the ultimate in intelligence like the ultimate in intelligence like the ultimate in intelligence because no one else could do that because no one else could do that because no one else could do that but now a machine can actually go way but now a machine can actually go way but now a machine can actually go way beyond him beyond him beyond him and so he says well there's no point and so he says well there's no point and so he says well there's no point playing it anymore playing it anymore playing it anymore that may be more true for games than it that may be more true for games than it that may be more true for games than it is for life is for life is for life i think there's a lot of benefit to i think there's a lot of benefit to i think there's a lot of benefit to working together with ai in regular life working together with ai in regular life working together with ai in regular life so so so if you were to put a probability on it if you were to put a probability on it if you were to put a probability on it is it more likely that we merge with ai is it more likely that we merge with ai is it more likely that we merge with ai or ai replaces us or ai replaces us or ai replaces us a lot of people a lot of people a lot of people just think just think just think computers come along they compete with computers come along they compete with computers come along they compete with them we can't really compete and that's them we can't really compete and that's them we can't really compete and that's the end of it the end of it the end of it as opposed to as opposed to as opposed to them them them increasing our abilities increasing our abilities increasing our abilities and if you look at most and if you look at most and if you look at most technology it increases our abilities look at what people did 100 years ago look at what people did 100 years ago does any of that exist anymore people does any of that exist anymore people does any of that exist anymore people i mean if you were to predict i mean if you were to predict i mean if you were to predict that all of these jobs would go away that all of these jobs would go away that all of these jobs would go away and would be done by machines people and would be done by machines people and would be done by machines people would say well that's going to be no would say well that's going to be no would say well that's going to be no one's going to have jobs and one's going to have jobs and one's going to have jobs and it's going to be massive unemployment it's going to be massive unemployment it's going to be massive unemployment um um um but i show in this book that's coming but i show in this book that's coming but i show in this book that's coming out out out the amount of the amount of the amount of people that are working people that are working people that are working even as a percentage of the population even as a percentage of the population even as a percentage of the population has gone way up has gone way up has gone way up we're looking at the x-axis year from

we're looking at the x-axis year from we're looking at the x-axis year from 1774 to 2024 1774 to 2024 1774 to 2024 and on the y-axis personal income per and on the y-axis personal income per and on the y-axis personal income per capita capita capita in constant dollars and it's growing in constant dollars and it's growing in constant dollars and it's growing super linearly i mean it's 20 21 super linearly i mean it's 20 21 super linearly i mean it's 20 21 constant dollars constant dollars constant dollars and it's gone way up and it's gone way up and it's gone way up that's not what you were to predict that's not what you were to predict that's not what you were to predict given that we would predict that all given that we would predict that all given that we would predict that all these jobs would go away these jobs would go away these jobs would go away yeah but the reason it's gone up is yeah but the reason it's gone up is yeah but the reason it's gone up is because we've basically enhanced our own because we've basically enhanced our own because we've basically enhanced our own capabilities by using these machines as capabilities by using these machines as capabilities by using these machines as opposed to them just competing with us opposed to them just competing with us opposed to them just competing with us that's a key way in which we're going to that's a key way in which we're going to that's a key way in which we're going to be able to become far smarter than we be able to become far smarter than we be able to become far smarter than we are now by are now by are now by increasing increasing increasing the number of different parameters we the number of different parameters we the number of different parameters we can consider and making a decision can consider and making a decision can consider and making a decision i was very fortunate i am very fortunate i was very fortunate i am very fortunate i was very fortunate i am very fortunate to be able to to be able to to be able to get a glimpse preview of your get a glimpse preview of your get a glimpse preview of your upcoming book upcoming book upcoming book uh uh uh singularity's nearer and uh singularity's nearer and uh singularity's nearer and uh one of the themes outside of just one of the themes outside of just one of the themes outside of just discussing the increasing exponential discussing the increasing exponential discussing the increasing exponential growth of technology one of the themes growth of technology one of the themes growth of technology one of the themes is is is that that that things are getting better in all aspects things are getting better in all aspects things are getting better in all aspects of life of life of life and you talk just about and you talk just about and you talk just about just about this so one of the things just about this so one of the things just about this so one of the things you're saying is with jobs so let me you're saying is with jobs so let me you're saying is with jobs so let me just ask about that there is a big just ask about that there is a big just ask about that there is a big concern that automation concern that automation concern that automation especially especially especially powerful ai will powerful ai will powerful ai will get rid of jobs where people will lose get rid of jobs where people will lose get rid of jobs where people will lose jobs and as you were saying the sense is jobs and as you were saying the sense is jobs and as you were saying the sense is throughout throughout throughout history of the 20th century automation

history of the 20th century automation history of the 20th century automation did not do that ultimately did not do that ultimately did not do that ultimately and so the question is will this time be and so the question is will this time be and so the question is will this time be different different different right that is the question will this right that is the question will this right that is the question will this time be different time be different time be different and it really has to do with how quickly and it really has to do with how quickly and it really has to do with how quickly we can merge with this type of we can merge with this type of we can merge with this type of intelligence intelligence intelligence whether whether whether lambda or gpt-3 is out there and maybe lambda or gpt-3 is out there and maybe lambda or gpt-3 is out there and maybe it's overcome some of its it's overcome some of its it's overcome some of its you know key problems you know key problems you know key problems and we really have an enhanced human and we really have an enhanced human and we really have an enhanced human intelligence intelligence intelligence that might be a negative scenario that might be a negative scenario that might be a negative scenario um but i mean that's but i mean that's that's why we create technologies to that's why we create technologies to that's why we create technologies to enhance ourselves enhance ourselves enhance ourselves and i believe we will be enhanced and i believe we will be enhanced and i believe we will be enhanced we're not just going to sit here with we're not just going to sit here with we're not just going to sit here with uh uh uh 300 million modules in our neocortex we're going to modules in our neocortex we're going to be able to go beyond that be able to go beyond that be able to go beyond that um um um because that's useful but we can because that's useful but we can because that's useful but we can multiply that by 10 multiply that by 10 multiply that by 10 a hundred thousand a hundred thousand a hundred thousand a million a million a million um um um and you might think well what's the and you might think well what's the and you might think well what's the point of doing that point of doing that point of doing that it's like it's like it's like asking somebody that's never heard music asking somebody that's never heard music asking somebody that's never heard music well well well what's the value of music i mean you what's the value of music i mean you what's the value of music i mean you can't appreciate it until you've created can't appreciate it until you've created can't appreciate it until you've created it it it there's some worry that there'll be a there's some worry that there'll be a there's some worry that there'll be a wealth disparity

wealth disparity wealth disparity you know you know you know class or wealth disparity only the rich class or wealth disparity only the rich class or wealth disparity only the rich people people people will be will be will be basically the rich people will first basically the rich people will first basically the rich people will first have access to this kind of thing and have access to this kind of thing and have access to this kind of thing and then because of this kind of thing then because of this kind of thing then because of this kind of thing because the ability to merge will get because the ability to merge will get because the ability to merge will get richer richer richer exponentially faster and i say that's exponentially faster and i say that's exponentially faster and i say that's just like cell phones just like cell phones just like cell phones i mean there's like 4 billion cell i mean there's like 4 billion cell i mean there's like 4 billion cell phones in the world today phones in the world today phones in the world today in fact when cell phones first came out in fact when cell phones first came out in fact when cell phones first came out you had to be fairly wealthy they you had to be fairly wealthy they you had to be fairly wealthy they weren't very inexpensive weren't very inexpensive weren't very inexpensive she had to have some wealth in order to she had to have some wealth in order to she had to have some wealth in order to afford them yeah there were these big afford them yeah there were these big afford them yeah there were these big sexy headphones and they didn't work sexy headphones and they didn't work sexy headphones and they didn't work very well they did almost nothing very well they did almost nothing very well they did almost nothing so so so you can only afford these things if you can only afford these things if you can only afford these things if you're wealthy you're wealthy you're wealthy at a point where they really don't work at a point where they really don't work at a point where they really don't work very well very well very well so um so achieving scale is and uh so um so achieving scale is and uh so um so achieving scale is and uh making it inexpensive as part of making making it inexpensive as part of making making it inexpensive as part of making the thing work well the thing work well the thing work well exactly exactly exactly so these are not totally cheap but so these are not totally cheap but so these are not totally cheap but they're pretty pretty cheap yeah i mean they're pretty pretty cheap yeah i mean they're pretty pretty cheap yeah i mean you can get them for a few hundred you can get them for a few hundred you can get them for a few hundred dollars dollars dollars especially given the kind of things it especially given the kind of things it especially given the kind of things it provides for you there's a lot of people provides for you there's a lot of people provides for you there's a lot of people in the third world that in the third world that in the third world that have very little but they have a have very little but they have a have very little but they have a smartphone yeah absolutely smartphone yeah absolutely smartphone yeah absolutely and the same will be true with ai i mean and the same will be true with ai i mean and the same will be true with ai i mean i see homeless people have their own i see homeless people have their own i see homeless people have their own cell phones and cell phones and cell phones and yeah so your sense is any kind of yeah so your sense is any kind of yeah so your sense is any kind of advanced technology advanced technology advanced technology will take the same trajectory will take the same trajectory will take the same trajectory right it ultimately becomes cheap and

right it ultimately becomes cheap and right it ultimately becomes cheap and will be affordable will be affordable will be affordable i probably would not be the first person i probably would not be the first person i probably would not be the first person to to to put put put something in my brain to connect to something in my brain to connect to something in my brain to connect to computers computers computers because i think it will have limitations because i think it will have limitations because i think it will have limitations but once it's but once it's but once it's really perfected really perfected really perfected and at that point it'll be pretty and at that point it'll be pretty and at that point it'll be pretty inexpensive i think it'll be pretty inexpensive i think it'll be pretty inexpensive i think it'll be pretty affordable affordable affordable so so so in which other ways as you outline your in which other ways as you outline your in which other ways as you outline your book is life getting better because i book is life getting better because i book is life getting better because i think well i have i mean i have 50 think well i have i mean i have 50 think well i have i mean i have 50 charts in there yeah where everything is charts in there yeah where everything is charts in there yeah where everything is getting better getting better getting better i think there's a kind of cynicism about i think there's a kind of cynicism about i think there's a kind of cynicism about um like if even if we look at extreme um like if even if we look at extreme um like if even if we look at extreme poverty for example for example this is poverty for example for example this is poverty for example for example this is actually a poll actually a poll actually a poll taken on extreme poverty taken on extreme poverty taken on extreme poverty and then people were asked and then people were asked and then people were asked has poverty gotten better or worse has poverty gotten better or worse has poverty gotten better or worse and the options are increased by 50 and the options are increased by 50 and the options are increased by 50 percent increase by 25 percent remain percent increase by 25 percent remain percent increase by 25 percent remain the same decreased by 25 degrees by 50 the same decreased by 25 degrees by 50 the same decreased by 25 degrees by 50 if you're watching this or listening to if you're watching this or listening to if you're watching this or listening to this try to to try to vote for yourself this try to to try to vote for yourself this try to to try to vote for yourself 70 thought it had gotten worse 70 thought it had gotten worse 70 thought it had gotten worse and that's the general impression and that's the general impression and that's the general impression 88 88 88 thought it had gotten worse or remained thought it had gotten worse or remained thought it had gotten worse or remained the same the same the same only one percent thought it decreased by only one percent thought it decreased by only one percent thought it decreased by 50 50 50 and that is the answer and that is the answer and that is the answer it actually decreased by 50 percent so it actually decreased by 50 percent so it actually decreased by 50 percent so only one percent of people got the right only one percent of people got the right only one percent of people got the right optimistic estimate of how poverty is optimistic estimate of how poverty is optimistic estimate of how poverty is right and and this is the reality and

right and and this is the reality and right and and this is the reality and it's true of almost everything it's true of almost everything it's true of almost everything you look at you look at you look at you don't want to go back 100 years or you don't want to go back 100 years or you don't want to go back 100 years or 50 years 50 years 50 years things were quite miserable then but we things were quite miserable then but we things were quite miserable then but we tend not to tend not to tend not to remember that so literacy rate remember that so literacy rate remember that so literacy rate increasing increasing increasing over the past few centuries across all over the past few centuries across all over the past few centuries across all the different nations the different nations the different nations nearly to 100 across many of the nations nearly to 100 across many of the nations nearly to 100 across many of the nations in the world it's gone way up average in the world it's gone way up average in the world it's gone way up average years of education have gone way up years of education have gone way up years of education have gone way up life expectancy is also increasing life expectancy is also increasing life expectancy is also increasing life expectancy was life expectancy was life expectancy was 48 48 48 in 1900 and is over 80 now and it's in 1900 and is over 80 now and it's in 1900 and is over 80 now and it's going to continue to go up particularly going to continue to go up particularly going to continue to go up particularly as we get into more advanced stages of as we get into more advanced stages of as we get into more advanced stages of simulated biology simulated biology simulated biology for life expectancy these trends are the for life expectancy these trends are the for life expectancy these trends are the same for at birth age 1 age 5 age 10 so same for at birth age 1 age 5 age 10 so same for at birth age 1 age 5 age 10 so it's not just the infant mortality and i it's not just the infant mortality and i it's not just the infant mortality and i have 50 more graphs in the book about have 50 more graphs in the book about have 50 more graphs in the book about all kinds of things all kinds of things all kinds of things uh even spread of democracy uh even spread of democracy uh even spread of democracy we're trying to we're trying to we're trying to bring up some sort of controversial bring up some sort of controversial bring up some sort of controversial issues it still has gone way up issues it still has gone way up issues it still has gone way up well that one is uh it's gone way up but well that one is uh it's gone way up but well that one is uh it's gone way up but that one is a bumpy road right that one is a bumpy road right that one is a bumpy road right exactly and some somebody might exactly and some somebody might exactly and some somebody might represent democracy and represent democracy and represent democracy and and go backwards but and go backwards but and go backwards but we basically had no democracies before we basically had no democracies before we basically had no democracies before the the the creation of the united states which was creation of the united states which was creation of the united states which was a little over two centuries ago a little over two centuries ago a little over two centuries ago which in the scale of human history which in the scale of human history which in the scale of human history isn't that long isn't that long isn't that long do you think superintelligence systems

do you think superintelligence systems do you think superintelligence systems will help will help will help with democracy with democracy with democracy so what is democracy democracy is giving so what is democracy democracy is giving so what is democracy democracy is giving a voice a voice a voice to to to the populace the populace the populace and and and having their ideas having their beliefs having their ideas having their beliefs having their ideas having their beliefs having having having their views represented their views represented their views represented well i hope so i mean we've seen social networks i mean we've seen social networks can spread can spread can spread uh conspiracy theories uh which have uh conspiracy theories uh which have uh conspiracy theories uh which have been quite negative been quite negative been quite negative being for example being for example being for example being against being against being against any kind of stuff that would help your any kind of stuff that would help your any kind of stuff that would help your health health health so those kinds of ideas so those kinds of ideas so those kinds of ideas have have have uh on social media what you notice is uh on social media what you notice is uh on social media what you notice is they increase engagement so dramatic they increase engagement so dramatic they increase engagement so dramatic division increases engagement division increases engagement division increases engagement do you worry about ai systems that will do you worry about ai systems that will do you worry about ai systems that will learn to maximize that division learn to maximize that division learn to maximize that division i mean i do have some concerns about i mean i do have some concerns about i mean i do have some concerns about this and i have a chapter in the book about and i have a chapter in the book about the perils of the perils of the perils of advanced a.i advanced a.i advanced a.i um um um spreading misinformation on social spreading misinformation on social spreading misinformation on social networks is one of them but uh there are networks is one of them but uh there are networks is one of them but uh there are many others many others many others what's the one that worries you the most that we should think about to try to that we should think about to try to avoid well it's hard to choose

well it's hard to choose we do have the nuclear power we do have the nuclear power we do have the nuclear power that that that evolved when i was a child i remember in evolved when i was a child i remember in evolved when i was a child i remember in we would actually do these we would actually do these we would actually do these drills against a nuclear war we'd get drills against a nuclear war we'd get drills against a nuclear war we'd get under our desks and put our hands behind under our desks and put our hands behind under our desks and put our hands behind our heads our heads our heads to protect us from a nuclear war to protect us from a nuclear war to protect us from a nuclear war seems to work we're still around so seems to work we're still around so seems to work we're still around so um um um you're protected you're protected you're protected but but but that's still a concern that's still a concern that's still a concern and there are key dangerous situations and there are key dangerous situations and there are key dangerous situations that can that can that can take place take place take place in biology in biology in biology someone could create a someone could create a someone could create a virus virus virus that's that's that's very very very i mean we have viruses that are hard to spread hard to spread and they can be very dangerous and they can be very dangerous and they can be very dangerous and we have viruses that are easy to and we have viruses that are easy to and we have viruses that are easy to spread but they're not so dangerous spread but they're not so dangerous spread but they're not so dangerous um um um somebody could create something that somebody could create something that somebody could create something that would be very easy to spread and very would be very easy to spread and very would be very easy to spread and very dangerous dangerous dangerous and be very hard to stop and be very hard to stop and be very hard to stop uh it could be uh it could be uh it could be something that would spread without something that would spread without something that would spread without people noticing because people could get people noticing because people could get people noticing because people could get it they'd have no symptoms it they'd have no symptoms it they'd have no symptoms and then everybody would get it and then and then everybody would get it and then and then everybody would get it and then symptoms would occur maybe a month later symptoms would occur maybe a month later symptoms would occur maybe a month later so i mean so i mean so i mean and that and that and that and that actually doesn't occur normally and that actually doesn't occur normally and that actually doesn't occur normally because if we were to to

because if we were to to because if we were to to uh have a problem with that we wouldn't uh have a problem with that we wouldn't uh have a problem with that we wouldn't exist exist exist so the fact that humans exist means that so the fact that humans exist means that so the fact that humans exist means that we don't have we don't have we don't have viruses that can viruses that can viruses that can spread easily and kill us spread easily and kill us spread easily and kill us because otherwise we wouldn't exist because otherwise we wouldn't exist because otherwise we wouldn't exist yeah viruses don't want to do that they yeah viruses don't want to do that they yeah viruses don't want to do that they want they want to spread and keep the want they want to spread and keep the want they want to spread and keep the host alive yeah somewhat so you can host alive yeah somewhat so you can host alive yeah somewhat so you can describe various dangers with biology describe various dangers with biology describe various dangers with biology uh also nanotechnology uh also nanotechnology uh also nanotechnology uh which we actually haven't experienced uh which we actually haven't experienced uh which we actually haven't experienced yet but there are people that creating yet but there are people that creating yet but there are people that creating nanotechnology and i describe that in nanotechnology and i describe that in nanotechnology and i describe that in the book the book the book now you're excited by the possibilities now you're excited by the possibilities now you're excited by the possibilities of nanotechnology of nanobots of nanotechnology of nanobots of nanotechnology of nanobots of being able to do things inside our of being able to do things inside our of being able to do things inside our body inside our mind that's going to body inside our mind that's going to body inside our mind that's going to help help help what's exciting what's terrifying about what's exciting what's terrifying about what's exciting what's terrifying about nanobots nanobots nanobots what's exciting is that that's a way to what's exciting is that that's a way to what's exciting is that that's a way to communicate with our neocortex communicate with our neocortex communicate with our neocortex because it's because it's because it's each neocortex is pretty small and you each neocortex is pretty small and you each neocortex is pretty small and you need a small need a small need a small entity that can actually get in there entity that can actually get in there entity that can actually get in there and establish a communication channel and establish a communication channel and establish a communication channel and and and that's going to really be necessary to that's going to really be necessary to that's going to really be necessary to connect our brains connect our brains connect our brains to to to ai ai ai within ourselves within ourselves within ourselves because otherwise it would be hard for because otherwise it would be hard for because otherwise it would be hard for us to compete with it us to compete with it us to compete with it in a high bandwidth way yeah in a high bandwidth way yeah in a high bandwidth way yeah yeah and that's key actually because a yeah and that's key actually because a yeah and that's key actually because a lot of the lot of the lot of the things things things like neural ink are really not high band like neural ink are really not high band like neural ink are really not high band within within within so nanobots is the way you achieve high so nanobots is the way you achieve high so nanobots is the way you achieve high bandwidth how much intelligence would

bandwidth how much intelligence would bandwidth how much intelligence would those nanobots have those nanobots have those nanobots have yeah they don't need a lot yeah they don't need a lot yeah they don't need a lot just enough to just enough to just enough to basically establish a communication basically establish a communication basically establish a communication channel to one nanobot so it's primarily channel to one nanobot so it's primarily channel to one nanobot so it's primarily about communication yeah between about communication yeah between about communication yeah between external computing devices and external computing devices and external computing devices and our biological our biological our biological thinking machine thinking machine thinking machine what worries you about nanobots is it what worries you about nanobots is it what worries you about nanobots is it similar to with the viruses similar to with the viruses similar to with the viruses well i mean this is the great goo well i mean this is the great goo well i mean this is the great goo channel challenge yes um channel challenge yes um channel challenge yes um if you had if you had if you had a nanobot a nanobot a nanobot that wanted to create any any kind of entity wanted to create any any kind of entity and repeat itself and repeat itself and repeat itself and was able to operate in a natural and was able to operate in a natural and was able to operate in a natural environment environment environment it could turn everything into that it could turn everything into that it could turn everything into that entity and basically destroy all uh biological life biological life so you mentioned so you mentioned so you mentioned nuclear weapons yeah nuclear weapons yeah nuclear weapons yeah i'd love to hear your opinion about the i'd love to hear your opinion about the i'd love to hear your opinion about the 21st century and whether you think we 21st century and whether you think we 21st century and whether you think we might destroy ourselves might destroy ourselves might destroy ourselves and maybe your opinion and maybe your opinion and maybe your opinion if it has changed by looking at what's if it has changed by looking at what's if it has changed by looking at what's going on in ukraine going on in ukraine going on in ukraine that we could have a hot war that we could have a hot war that we could have a hot war with nuclear powers involved with nuclear powers involved with nuclear powers involved and the tensions building and the tensions building and the tensions building and the seeming and the seeming and the seeming forgetting of how terrifying and

forgetting of how terrifying and forgetting of how terrifying and destructive nuclear weapons are do you think do you think humans might destroy ourselves in the humans might destroy ourselves in the humans might destroy ourselves in the 21st century and if we do how 21st century and if we do how 21st century and if we do how and how do we avoid it and how do we avoid it and how do we avoid it i don't think that's going to happen i don't think that's going to happen i don't think that's going to happen despite despite despite the terrors of that war the terrors of that war the terrors of that war it is a possibility it is a possibility it is a possibility but i mean i i don't but i mean i i don't but i mean i i don't it's unlikely in your mind it's unlikely in your mind it's unlikely in your mind yeah even with the tensions we've had yeah even with the tensions we've had yeah even with the tensions we've had with this one with this one with this one nuclear power plant that's been taken nuclear power plant that's been taken nuclear power plant that's been taken over over over um um um it's very tense but i don't actually see a lot of people but i don't actually see a lot of people worrying that that's going to happen worrying that that's going to happen worrying that that's going to happen i think we'll avoid that we had two i think we'll avoid that we had two i think we'll avoid that we had two nuclear bombs go off in 45 nuclear bombs go off in 45 nuclear bombs go off in 45 so now we're 77 years later yeah we're doing pretty 77 years later yeah we're doing pretty good good good we've never had another one go off we've never had another one go off we've never had another one go off through anger through anger through anger but people forget but people forget but people forget people forget the lessons of history people forget the lessons of history people forget the lessons of history well yeah that's how i mean i am worried well yeah that's how i mean i am worried well yeah that's how i mean i am worried about it i mean that about it i mean that about it i mean that that is definitely a that is definitely a that is definitely a challenge challenge challenge but you believe that but you believe that but you believe that we'll make it out and ultimately super we'll make it out and ultimately super we'll make it out and ultimately super intelligent ai will help us make it out intelligent ai will help us make it out intelligent ai will help us make it out as opposed to uh destroy us as opposed to uh destroy us as opposed to uh destroy us i think so i think so i think so but we we do have to be mindful of these but we we do have to be mindful of these but we we do have to be mindful of these dangers dangers dangers and and there are other dangers besides and and there are other dangers besides and and there are other dangers besides nuclear weapons

nuclear weapons nuclear weapons so so so to get back to to get back to to get back to merging with ai merging with ai merging with ai we would be able to upload our mind in a we would be able to upload our mind in a we would be able to upload our mind in a computer in a way where we might even in a way where we might even transcend the constraints of our bodies transcend the constraints of our bodies transcend the constraints of our bodies so copy our mind into a computer and so copy our mind into a computer and so copy our mind into a computer and leave the body behind leave the body behind leave the body behind let me describe one thing i've already let me describe one thing i've already let me describe one thing i've already done with my father done with my father done with my father that's a great story that's a great story that's a great story so we we created technology this is so we we created technology this is so we we created technology this is public came out i think public came out i think public came out i think six years ago where you could six years ago where you could six years ago where you could ask any question ask any question ask any question and the release product which i think is and the release product which i think is and the release product which i think is still on the market still on the market still on the market it would read 200 000 books it would read 200 000 books it would read 200 000 books and then and then find the one sentence and then and then find the one sentence and then and then find the one sentence in 200 000 books that best answered your in 200 000 books that best answered your in 200 000 books that best answered your question question question uh it's actually quite interesting you uh it's actually quite interesting you uh it's actually quite interesting you can ask all kinds of questions and you can ask all kinds of questions and you can ask all kinds of questions and you get the best answer in 200 000 books get the best answer in 200 000 books get the best answer in 200 000 books but i was also able to to take it and but i was also able to to take it and but i was also able to to take it and uh not go through 200 000 books but go uh not go through 200 000 books but go uh not go through 200 000 books but go through a book that i'd through a book that i'd through a book that i'd put together put together put together which is basically everything my father which is basically everything my father which is basically everything my father had written had written had written so everything he had written i had so everything he had written i had so everything he had written i had gathered gathered gathered and we created a book and we created a book and we created a book everything that everything that everything that frederick is all had written now frederick is all had written now frederick is all had written now i didn't think this actually would work i didn't think this actually would work i didn't think this actually would work that well because that well because that well because uh stuff he'd written was

uh stuff he'd written was uh stuff he'd written was stuff about how to lay out stuff about how to lay out stuff about how to lay out i mean he i mean he i mean he did did did directed coral groups and directed coral groups and directed coral groups and music music music groups and he would be laying out how groups and he would be laying out how groups and he would be laying out how the people should the people should the people should where they should sit and where they should sit and where they should sit and and uh how to fund this and and uh how to fund this and and uh how to fund this and all kinds of things that really weren't all kinds of things that really weren't all kinds of things that really weren't didn't seem that interesting didn't seem that interesting didn't seem that interesting um um um and yet when you asked a question it and yet when you asked a question it and yet when you asked a question it would go through it and it would would go through it and it would would go through it and it would actually actually actually give you a very good answer give you a very good answer give you a very good answer so i said well you know who's the most so i said well you know who's the most so i said well you know who's the most interesting composer and he said well interesting composer and he said well interesting composer and he said well definitely brahms he would go on about definitely brahms he would go on about definitely brahms he would go on about how promise was how promise was how promise was fabulous and fabulous and fabulous and talk about the importance of music talk about the importance of music talk about the importance of music education and education and education and so you could have a essentially uh uh so you could have a essentially uh uh so you could have a essentially uh uh can i have a conversation with him which can i have a conversation with him which can i have a conversation with him which was actually more interesting was actually more interesting was actually more interesting than talking to him because if you talk than talking to him because if you talk than talking to him because if you talk to him he'd be concerned about to him he'd be concerned about to him he'd be concerned about how they're going to lay out this how they're going to lay out this how they're going to lay out this property to give a coral group property to give a coral group property to give a coral group he'd be concerned about the day-to-day he'd be concerned about the day-to-day he'd be concerned about the day-to-day versus the big questions exactly yeah versus the big questions exactly yeah versus the big questions exactly yeah and you did ask about the meaning of and you did ask about the meaning of and you did ask about the meaning of life and he answered love yeah yes i do um yes i do um you know you get used to missing you know you get used to missing you know you get used to missing somebody after somebody after somebody after 52 years 52 years 52 years and i didn't really have

and i didn't really have and i didn't really have intelligent conversations with them intelligent conversations with them intelligent conversations with them until later in life in the last few years he was sick which in the last few years he was sick which meant he was home a lot and i was meant he was home a lot and i was meant he was home a lot and i was actually able to talk to him about actually able to talk to him about actually able to talk to him about different things like music and other different things like music and other different things like music and other things and things and things and so i missed that pretty much so i missed that pretty much so i missed that pretty much what did you learn about life from your what did you learn about life from your what did you learn about life from your father what what part of him is is with you now what what part of him is is with you now he was devoted to music he was devoted to music he was devoted to music and when he would create something and when he would create something and when he would create something to music it put him in a different world and if people got together he tended not and if people got together he tended not to interact with people to interact with people to interact with people just because it was china's just because it was china's just because it was china's but when he created music that but when he created music that but when he created music that he was like a different person he was like a different person he was like a different person do you have that in you that yeah kind do you have that in you that yeah kind do you have that in you that yeah kind of light that shines i mean i of light that shines i mean i of light that shines i mean i i got involved i got involved i got involved with technology at like age five with technology at like age five with technology at like age five and you fell in love with it in the same and you fell in love with it in the same and you fell in love with it in the same way he did with music yeah way he did with music yeah way he did with music yeah yeah yeah yeah i remember i remember i remember this actually happened with my this actually happened with my this actually happened with my grandmother grandmother grandmother she had a manual typewriter she had a manual typewriter she had a manual typewriter and she wrote a book one life is not and she wrote a book one life is not and she wrote a book one life is not enough enough enough it's actually a it's actually a it's actually a good title for a book i might write but good title for a book i might write but good title for a book i might write but and it was about a school she had and it was about a school she had and it was about a school she had created created created well actually

well actually well actually her mother created it her mother created it her mother created it so my mother's mother's mother created so my mother's mother's mother created so my mother's mother's mother created the school in 1868 the school in 1868 the school in 1868 and it was the first school in europe and it was the first school in europe and it was the first school in europe that provided higher education for girls that provided higher education for girls that provided higher education for girls it went through 14th grade it went through 14th grade it went through 14th grade if you were a girl and you were lucky if you were a girl and you were lucky if you were a girl and you were lucky enough to get an education at all enough to get an education at all enough to get an education at all it would go through like ninth grade it would go through like ninth grade it would go through like ninth grade and many people didn't have any and many people didn't have any and many people didn't have any education as a girl education as a girl education as a girl this went through 14th grade this went through 14th grade this went through 14th grade um um um her mother created it she took it over her mother created it she took it over her mother created it she took it over and the and the book was about and the and the book was about and the and the book was about the history of the school and her the history of the school and her the history of the school and her involvement with it involvement with it involvement with it um um um when she presented to me i was when she presented to me i was when she presented to me i was not so interested in the story of the of not so interested in the story of the of not so interested in the story of the of the school the school the school but i was totally amazed but i was totally amazed but i was totally amazed with this manual typewriter with this manual typewriter with this manual typewriter i mean here is something you could put a i mean here is something you could put a i mean here is something you could put a blank piece of paper into blank piece of paper into blank piece of paper into and you could turn it into something and you could turn it into something and you could turn it into something that looked like it came from a book that looked like it came from a book that looked like it came from a book and you could actually type on it and it and you could actually type on it and it and you could actually type on it and it looked like it came from a book it was looked like it came from a book it was looked like it came from a book it was just amazing to me just amazing to me just amazing to me and i could see actually how it worked and i could see actually how it worked and i could see actually how it worked and i was also interested in magic but in magic if somebody actually knows but in magic if somebody actually knows how it works the magic goes away the how it works the magic goes away the how it works the magic goes away the magic doesn't stay there if you actually magic doesn't stay there if you actually magic doesn't stay there if you actually understand how it works understand how it works understand how it works but he was technology i didn't have that but he was technology i didn't have that but he was technology i didn't have that word when i was five or six word when i was five or six word when i was five or six and the magic was still there for you

and the magic was still there for you and the magic was still there for you the magic was still there even if you the magic was still there even if you the magic was still there even if you knew how it worked yeah knew how it worked yeah knew how it worked yeah so i became totally interested in this so i became totally interested in this so i became totally interested in this and then went around collected little and then went around collected little and then went around collected little pieces of mechanical objects pieces of mechanical objects pieces of mechanical objects from bicycles from broken radios i go from bicycles from broken radios i go from bicycles from broken radios i go through the through the through the neighborhood uh this was an era where neighborhood uh this was an era where neighborhood uh this was an era where you would allow five or six-year-olds to you would allow five or six-year-olds to you would allow five or six-year-olds to like roam through the neighborhood and like roam through the neighborhood and like roam through the neighborhood and do this do this do this we don't do that anymore but we don't do that anymore but we don't do that anymore but i didn't know how to put them together i i didn't know how to put them together i i didn't know how to put them together i said if i could just figure out how to said if i could just figure out how to said if i could just figure out how to put these things together i could solve put these things together i could solve put these things together i could solve any problem any problem any problem and i actually remember talking to these and i actually remember talking to these and i actually remember talking to these very old girls i think they were 10 and telling them if i could just figure and telling them if i could just figure this out like we could fly we could do this out like we could fly we could do this out like we could fly we could do anything and anything and anything and they said well you have quite an they said well you have quite an they said well you have quite an imagination um um and then like and then like and then like then when i was in third grade then when i was in third grade then when i was in third grade so it was like eight so it was like eight so it was like eight created like a virtual reality theater created like a virtual reality theater created like a virtual reality theater where people could come on stage and where people could come on stage and where people could come on stage and they could move their arms they could move their arms they could move their arms and all of it was controlled through one and all of it was controlled through one and all of it was controlled through one control box it was all done with control box it was all done with control box it was all done with mechanical technology mechanical technology mechanical technology and it was a big hit in my third grade and it was a big hit in my third grade and it was a big hit in my third grade class class class and then i went on to do things in and then i went on to do things in and then i went on to do things in junior high school science fairs and and junior high school science fairs and and junior high school science fairs and and high school science fairs i won the high school science fairs i won the high school science fairs i won the westinghouse science talent search westinghouse science talent search westinghouse science talent search so i mean i became committed to

so i mean i became committed to so i mean i became committed to technology when i was technology when i was technology when i was five or six years old five or six years old five or six years old you've talked about you've talked about you've talked about how you use lucid dreaming to think to how you use lucid dreaming to think to how you use lucid dreaming to think to come up with ideas as a source of come up with ideas as a source of come up with ideas as a source of creativity because you maybe creativity because you maybe creativity because you maybe talk through that talk through that talk through that maybe the process of how to you've maybe the process of how to you've maybe the process of how to you've invented a lot of things invented a lot of things invented a lot of things you've came up and thought through some you've came up and thought through some you've came up and thought through some very interesting very interesting very interesting ideas what advice would you give or ideas what advice would you give or ideas what advice would you give or can you speak to the process of thinking can you speak to the process of thinking can you speak to the process of thinking of how to think how to think creatively of how to think how to think creatively of how to think how to think creatively well i mean sometimes i will think well i mean sometimes i will think well i mean sometimes i will think through in a dream and try to through in a dream and try to through in a dream and try to interpret that but interpret that but interpret that but i think the key i think the key i think the key issue that i would issue that i would issue that i would tell tell tell younger people is to put yourself in the position is to put yourself in the position what you're trying to create what you're trying to create what you're trying to create already exists and then and then you're explaining you're explaining you're explaining like like like how it works how it works how it works exactly exactly exactly that's really interesting you paint a that's really interesting you paint a that's really interesting you paint a world that you world that you world that you would like to exist you think it exists would like to exist you think it exists would like to exist you think it exists and reverse engineering then you and reverse engineering then you and reverse engineering then you actually imagine you're giving a speech actually imagine you're giving a speech actually imagine you're giving a speech about how you created this well you'd about how you created this well you'd about how you created this well you'd have to then work backwards as to have to then work backwards as to have to then work backwards as to how you would create it in order to how you would create it in order to how you would create it in order to make it work make it work make it work that's brilliant and that requires that's brilliant and that requires that's brilliant and that requires uh uh uh some imagination too some first some imagination too some first some imagination too some first principles thinking

principles thinking principles thinking you have to visualize that world that's you have to visualize that world that's you have to visualize that world that's really interesting really interesting really interesting and and and generally when i talk about things we're generally when i talk about things we're generally when i talk about things we're trying to invent i would use the present trying to invent i would use the present trying to invent i would use the present tense as if it already exists tense as if it already exists tense as if it already exists not just to give myself that confidence not just to give myself that confidence not just to give myself that confidence but everybody else who's working on but everybody else who's working on but everybody else who's working on um it um it um it just have to kind of just have to kind of just have to kind of uh uh uh do all the steps in order to make it do all the steps in order to make it do all the steps in order to make it actual actual actual actual actual actual how much of a good idea is about timing how much of a good idea is about timing how much of a good idea is about timing how much is it about your genius versus how much is it about your genius versus how much is it about your genius versus that its time has come that its time has come that its time has come timing's very important i mean that timing's very important i mean that timing's very important i mean that that's really why i got into futurism that's really why i got into futurism that's really why i got into futurism i'm not i didn't i'm not i didn't i'm not i didn't i wasn't inherently a futurist that i wasn't inherently a futurist that i wasn't inherently a futurist that there's not really my goal there's not really my goal there's not really my goal uh uh uh it's really to to figure out when things it's really to to figure out when things it's really to to figure out when things are feasible are feasible are feasible we see that now with large-scale models we see that now with large-scale models we see that now with large-scale models they're very large-scale models like they're very large-scale models like they're very large-scale models like gpt-3 gpt-3 gpt-3 it started two years ago it started two years ago it started two years ago four years ago it wasn't feasible in four years ago it wasn't feasible in four years ago it wasn't feasible in fact they did create fact they did create fact they did create gpt-2 gpt-2 gpt-2 which didn't work which didn't work which didn't work so it required a certain amount of so it required a certain amount of so it required a certain amount of timing timing timing having to do with this exponential having to do with this exponential having to do with this exponential growth of computing power growth of computing power growth of computing power so futurism in some sense is a study of so futurism in some sense is a study of so futurism in some sense is a study of timing timing timing trying to understand how the world will trying to understand how the world will trying to understand how the world will evolve yeah and when

evolve yeah and when evolve yeah and when will the capacity for certain ideas will the capacity for certain ideas will the capacity for certain ideas and that's become a thing in itself and and that's become a thing in itself and and that's become a thing in itself and to try to time things in the future to try to time things in the future to try to time things in the future uh but really it's a original uh but really it's a original uh but really it's a original purpose was to tie my purpose was to tie my purpose was to tie my products products products i mean i did i mean i did i mean i did ocr in the 1970s doesn't require a lot of computation doesn't require a lot of computation optical character recognition so we were optical character recognition so we were optical character recognition so we were able to do that in the 70s able to do that in the 70s able to do that in the 70s and i waited till the 80s to address and i waited till the 80s to address and i waited till the 80s to address speech recognition speech recognition speech recognition since that requires since that requires since that requires more computation so you were thinking more computation so you were thinking more computation so you were thinking through timing when you're developing through timing when you're developing through timing when you're developing those things yeah has its time come those things yeah has its time come those things yeah has its time come yeah yeah yeah and that's how you've developed that and that's how you've developed that and that's how you've developed that brain power to start to think in a brain power to start to think in a brain power to start to think in a futurist sense when futurist sense when futurist sense when how will the world look like how will the world look like how will the world look like in 2045 and work backwards yeah and how in 2045 and work backwards yeah and how in 2045 and work backwards yeah and how it gets there but that has become a it gets there but that has become a it gets there but that has become a thing in itself because thing in itself because thing in itself because looking at what looking at what looking at what uh things will be like in the future uh things will be like in the future uh things will be like in the future reflect such dramatic changes in reflect such dramatic changes in reflect such dramatic changes in in how humans will live in how humans will live in how humans will live that was worth communicating also that was worth communicating also that was worth communicating also so you developed that so you developed that so you developed that muscle of of predicting the future and muscle of of predicting the future and muscle of of predicting the future and then apply it broadly then apply it broadly then apply it broadly and start to discuss and start to discuss and start to discuss how it changes the world of technology how it changes the world of technology how it changes the world of technology how it changes the world of human life how it changes the world of human life how it changes the world of human life on earth

on earth on earth in danielle in danielle in danielle one of your books you write about one of your books you write about one of your books you write about someone who has the courage to question someone who has the courage to question someone who has the courage to question assumptions that limit assumptions that limit assumptions that limit human imagination to solve problems human imagination to solve problems human imagination to solve problems and you also give advice and and you also give advice and and you also give advice and how each of us can have this kind of um how each of us can have this kind of um how each of us can have this kind of um courage it's good that you picked that courage it's good that you picked that courage it's good that you picked that quote because i think that does quote because i think that does quote because i think that does symbolize what danielle is about courage symbolize what danielle is about courage symbolize what danielle is about courage so how can each of us have that courage so how can each of us have that courage so how can each of us have that courage to quest question assumptions to quest question assumptions to quest question assumptions i mean we see that when people i mean we see that when people i mean we see that when people can beyond the current can beyond the current can beyond the current round and create something that's new round and create something that's new round and create something that's new i mean take uber for example before that i mean take uber for example before that i mean take uber for example before that existed existed existed you never thought that that would be you never thought that that would be you never thought that that would be feasible feasible feasible and it did require changes in the way and it did require changes in the way and it did require changes in the way people work people work people work is there practical is there practical is there practical advices you give in the book about advices you give in the book about advices you give in the book about each what each of us can do to be a each what each of us can do to be a each what each of us can do to be a danielle well she looks at the situation and well she looks at the situation and tries to imagine tries to imagine tries to imagine uh how she can overcome various how she can overcome various obstacles obstacles obstacles and then she goes for it and then she goes for it and then she goes for it and she's a very good communicator so and she's a very good communicator so and she's a very good communicator so she can communicate she can communicate she can communicate these ideas to other people these ideas to other people these ideas to other people and there's practical advice of learning and there's practical advice of learning and there's practical advice of learning to program and to program and to program and recording your life recording your life recording your life and things of this nature become a and things of this nature become a and things of this nature become a physicist physicist physicist so you list a bunch of different uh so you list a bunch of different uh so you list a bunch of different uh suggestions of how to throw yourself

suggestions of how to throw yourself suggestions of how to throw yourself into this world yeah i mean it's kind of into this world yeah i mean it's kind of into this world yeah i mean it's kind of a a a idea how young people can actually idea how young people can actually idea how young people can actually change the world change the world change the world by uh by uh by uh learning all of these different learning all of these different learning all of these different skills skills skills and at the core of that is the belief and at the core of that is the belief and at the core of that is the belief that you can change the world that you can change the world that you can change the world that your mind your body can change the that your mind your body can change the that your mind your body can change the world yeah world yeah world yeah that's right that's right that's right and not letting anyone else tell you and not letting anyone else tell you and not letting anyone else tell you otherwise otherwise otherwise it's pretty good exactly it's pretty good exactly it's pretty good exactly when we upload when we upload when we upload the story you told about your dad the story you told about your dad the story you told about your dad and having a conversation with him we're and having a conversation with him we're and having a conversation with him we're talking about uploading your mind to the talking about uploading your mind to the talking about uploading your mind to the computer computer computer do you think we'll have a future with do you think we'll have a future with do you think we'll have a future with something you call uh afterlife we'll something you call uh afterlife we'll something you call uh afterlife we'll have avatars that mimic have avatars that mimic have avatars that mimic increasingly better and better our increasingly better and better our increasingly better and better our behavior our appearance all that kind of behavior our appearance all that kind of behavior our appearance all that kind of stuff stuff stuff even those are perhaps not no longer even those are perhaps not no longer even those are perhaps not no longer with us with us with us yes i mean yes i mean yes i mean we need we need we need some information about about them some information about about them some information about about them i mean think about my father i mean think about my father i mean think about my father i have what he wrote i have what he wrote i have what he wrote now he didn't have a word processor now he didn't have a word processor now he didn't have a word processor so he didn't actually write so he didn't actually write so he didn't actually write that much that much that much and our memories of him aren't perfect and our memories of him aren't perfect and our memories of him aren't perfect so how do you even know if you've so how do you even know if you've so how do you even know if you've created created created something that's satisfactory now you something that's satisfactory now you something that's satisfactory now you could do a rake frederick kurzweil could do a rake frederick kurzweil could do a rake frederick kurzweil turing test turing test turing test it seems like frederick kurzweil to me it seems like frederick kurzweil to me it seems like frederick kurzweil to me but the people who remember him like me

but the people who remember him like me but the people who remember him like me don't have a perfect don't have a perfect don't have a perfect memory memory memory is there such a thing as a perfect is there such a thing as a perfect is there such a thing as a perfect memory maybe memory maybe memory maybe the whole point the whole point the whole point is for is for is for him to make you feel him to make you feel him to make you feel a certain way yeah well i think that a certain way yeah well i think that a certain way yeah well i think that would be the goal would be the goal would be the goal and that's the connection we have with and that's the connection we have with and that's the connection we have with loved ones it's not really based on loved ones it's not really based on loved ones it's not really based on very strict definition of truth it's very strict definition of truth it's very strict definition of truth it's more about the experiences we share yeah more about the experiences we share yeah more about the experiences we share yeah and they get more through memory and they get more through memory and they get more through memory but ultimately they make us smile i but ultimately they make us smile i but ultimately they make us smile i think we we definitely can do that think we we definitely can do that think we we definitely can do that and that would be very worthwhile and that would be very worthwhile and that would be very worthwhile so do you think we'll have a world of so do you think we'll have a world of so do you think we'll have a world of replicants replicants replicants of copies would there be a bunch of of copies would there be a bunch of of copies would there be a bunch of raker as well as raker as well as raker as well as like i could hang out with one i can like i could hang out with one i can like i could hang out with one i can download it download it download it for five bucks for five bucks for five bucks and have a best friend ray and have a best friend ray and have a best friend ray and uh you the original copy wouldn't and uh you the original copy wouldn't and uh you the original copy wouldn't even know about it even know about it even know about it um um um is that do you think that world is is that do you think that world is is that do you think that world is um first of all do you think that world um first of all do you think that world um first of all do you think that world is feasible and do you think there's is feasible and do you think there's is feasible and do you think there's ethical challenges there like how would ethical challenges there like how would ethical challenges there like how would you feel about me hanging out with raker you feel about me hanging out with raker you feel about me hanging out with raker as well and you not knowing about it doesn't strike doesn't strike uh me as a problem uh me as a problem uh me as a problem um which would you um which would you um which would you the original would you would that the original would you would that the original would you would that cause a problem for you cause a problem for you cause a problem for you no i i no i i no i i would really very much enjoy it no not would really very much enjoy it no not would really very much enjoy it no not just hang out with me but if somebody just hang out with me but if somebody just hang out with me but if somebody hanging out with you

hanging out with you hanging out with you a replicant of you a replicant of you a replicant of you well i think i would start it sounds well i think i would start it sounds well i think i would start it sounds exciting but then exciting but then exciting but then what if they what if they what if they start doing better than me start doing better than me start doing better than me and take take over my friend group and take take over my friend group and take take over my friend group and then and then i'll and then and then i'll and then and then i'll because because because because they may be because they may be because they may be an imperfect copy an imperfect copy an imperfect copy or there may be more social or these or there may be more social or these or there may be more social or these kinds of things and then i become like kinds of things and then i become like kinds of things and then i become like the old version that's not not nearly as the old version that's not not nearly as the old version that's not not nearly as exciting exciting exciting maybe they're a copy of the best version maybe they're a copy of the best version maybe they're a copy of the best version of me on a good day yeah of me on a good day yeah of me on a good day yeah but if you hang out with a replicant of but if you hang out with a replicant of but if you hang out with a replicant of me and that turned out to be successful me and that turned out to be successful me and that turned out to be successful i'd feel proud of that person because it i'd feel proud of that person because it i'd feel proud of that person because it was based on me so was based on me so was based on me so so it's but it is a kind of death of this version of you death of this version of you well not necessarily i mean you can well not necessarily i mean you can well not necessarily i mean you can still be alive right still be alive right still be alive right but but but and you would be pro okay so it's like and you would be pro okay so it's like and you would be pro okay so it's like having kids and you're proud that having kids and you're proud that having kids and you're proud that they've done even more than you were they've done even more than you were they've done even more than you were able to do yeah exactly uh it does bring up new issues but uh it does bring up new issues but uh it seems like an opportunity uh it seems like an opportunity uh it seems like an opportunity well that that replicant should probably well that that replicant should probably well that that replicant should probably have the same rights as you do have the same rights as you do have the same rights as you do well that well that well that that gets into a whole issue that gets into a whole issue that gets into a whole issue [Music] [Music] [Music] uh uh uh because when a replicant occurs they're because when a replicant occurs they're because when a replicant occurs they're not necessarily going to have your not necessarily going to have your not necessarily going to have your rights rights rights and if a replicant occurs to somebody

and if a replicant occurs to somebody and if a replicant occurs to somebody who's already dead who's already dead who's already dead do they have all the do they have all the do they have all the obligations and obligations and obligations and that the original person had did they that the original person had did they that the original person had did they have all the agreements that they had have all the agreements that they had have all the agreements that they had so so so i think you're going to have to have i think you're going to have to have i think you're going to have to have laws that say yes laws that say yes laws that say yes there has to be if you want to create a there has to be if you want to create a there has to be if you want to create a replicant replicant replicant they have to have all the same rights as they have to have all the same rights as they have to have all the same rights as human rights well human rights well human rights well you don't know someone could create a you don't know someone could create a you don't know someone could create a replica and say well it's a replicant replica and say well it's a replicant replica and say well it's a replicant but i didn't bother getting their rights but i didn't bother getting their rights but i didn't bother getting their rights and so yeah but that would be illegal i and so yeah but that would be illegal i and so yeah but that would be illegal i mean mean mean like if you do that you have to do that like if you do that you have to do that like if you do that you have to do that in the black market in the black market in the black market you have to if you want to get an you have to if you want to get an you have to if you want to get an official replica okay it's not so easy official replica okay it's not so easy official replica okay it's not so easy suppose you created multiple replicants suppose you created multiple replicants suppose you created multiple replicants uh uh uh the original the original the original rights rights rights uh uh uh maybe for one person and not for a whole maybe for one person and not for a whole maybe for one person and not for a whole group of per people group of per people group of per people sure so uh so there has to be at least one uh so there has to be at least one and then all the other ones kind of and then all the other ones kind of and then all the other ones kind of share the rights share the rights share the rights yeah i just don't i don't think that yeah i just don't i don't think that yeah i just don't i don't think that that's very difficult to conceive for us that's very difficult to conceive for us that's very difficult to conceive for us humans the the the the idea that we humans the the the the idea that we humans the the the the idea that we don't create a replicant don't create a replicant don't create a replicant that has certain that has certain that has certain i mean i've talked to people about this i mean i've talked to people about this i mean i've talked to people about this including my wife who would like to get including my wife who would like to get including my wife who would like to get back her father back her father back her father um um um and she doesn't worry about and she doesn't worry about and she doesn't worry about who has rights to what who has rights to what who has rights to what she she would have somebody that she she she would have somebody that she she she would have somebody that she could visit with and like give her some could visit with and like give her some could visit with and like give her some satisfaction

satisfaction satisfaction uh uh uh and they wouldn't and they wouldn't and they wouldn't she wouldn't care about any of these she wouldn't care about any of these she wouldn't care about any of these other rights what does your wife think other rights what does your wife think other rights what does your wife think about multiple array cores walls about multiple array cores walls about multiple array cores walls well you had that discussion i wouldn't well you had that discussion i wouldn't well you had that discussion i wouldn't address that weather i think i think ultimately that's an i think i think ultimately that's an important question loved ones important question loved ones important question loved ones how they feel about there's a there's how they feel about there's a there's how they feel about there's a there's something about love that's the key something about love that's the key something about love that's the key thing right if the loved one's rejected thing right if the loved one's rejected thing right if the loved one's rejected it's not going to work very well so so the loved ones really are the key to so the loved ones really are the key to terminate whether or not this terminate whether or not this terminate whether or not this works or not works or not works or not but there's also ethical rules but there's also ethical rules but there's also ethical rules um we have to contend with the idea and um we have to contend with the idea and um we have to contend with the idea and we have to contend with that idea with we have to contend with that idea with we have to contend with that idea with ai but what's going to motivate it is ai but what's going to motivate it is ai but what's going to motivate it is i mean i talk to people who really miss i mean i talk to people who really miss i mean i talk to people who really miss people who are gone and they would love people who are gone and they would love people who are gone and they would love to get to get to get something back even if it isn't perfect something back even if it isn't perfect something back even if it isn't perfect and that's what's going to motivate this and that person and that person lives on in some form lives on in some form lives on in some form and the more data we have the more we're and the more data we have the more we're and the more data we have the more we're able to reconstruct that person able to reconstruct that person able to reconstruct that person and allow them to live on right and allow them to live on right and allow them to live on right and eventually as we go forward we're and eventually as we go forward we're and eventually as we go forward we're going to have more and more of this data going to have more and more of this data going to have more and more of this data because we're going to have because we're going to have because we're going to have nanobots that are inside our neocortex nanobots that are inside our neocortex nanobots that are inside our neocortex and we're going to collect a lot of data and we're going to collect a lot of data and we're going to collect a lot of data in fact anything that's data is is

in fact anything that's data is is in fact anything that's data is is always collected always collected always collected there's something there's something there's something a little bit sad which is becoming a little bit sad which is becoming a little bit sad which is becoming or maybe it's hopeful or maybe it's hopeful or maybe it's hopeful which which which is more and more common these days is more and more common these days is more and more common these days which when a person passes away you have which when a person passes away you have which when a person passes away you have their twitter account their twitter account their twitter account you know and you have you know and you have you know and you have the last tweet they tweeted the last tweet they tweeted the last tweet they tweeted like something and you can recreate them like something and you can recreate them like something and you can recreate them now with large language models and so on now with large language models and so on now with large language models and so on i mean you can create somebody that's i mean you can create somebody that's i mean you can create somebody that's just like them and can actually continue just like them and can actually continue just like them and can actually continue to to to communicate i think that's really communicate i think that's really communicate i think that's really exciting because i think exciting because i think exciting because i think in some sense in some sense in some sense like if i were to die today like if i were to die today like if i were to die today in some sense i would continue on if i in some sense i would continue on if i in some sense i would continue on if i continued tweeting continued tweeting continued tweeting i tweet therefore i am i tweet therefore i am i tweet therefore i am yeah well in some sense i mean that's yeah well in some sense i mean that's yeah well in some sense i mean that's one of the advantages of one of the advantages of one of the advantages of a replicant that can recreate a replicant that can recreate a replicant that can recreate the communications of that the communications of that the communications of that that person do you do you hope do you think do you hope hope do you think do you hope hope do you think do you hope humans will become a multi-planetary humans will become a multi-planetary humans will become a multi-planetary species species species you've talked about the phases the six you've talked about the phases the six you've talked about the phases the six epics and one of them is reaching out epics and one of them is reaching out epics and one of them is reaching out into the stars in part yes but into the stars in part yes but into the stars in part yes but uh the kind of attempts i'm making now uh the kind of attempts i'm making now uh the kind of attempts i'm making now to go to other to go to other to go to other planetary planetary planetary objects objects objects doesn't excite me that much doesn't excite me that much doesn't excite me that much because it's not really advancing because it's not really advancing because it's not really advancing anything it's not anything it's not anything it's not efficient enough yeah efficient enough yeah efficient enough yeah we're also putting out other

we're also putting out other we're also putting out other uh human beings which is a very human beings which is a very inefficient way to explore these other inefficient way to explore these other inefficient way to explore these other objects objects objects what i'm really talking about in the in what i'm really talking about in the in what i'm really talking about in the in the the the sixth epic sixth epic sixth epic universe wakes up universe wakes up universe wakes up it's where we can spread our super it's where we can spread our super it's where we can spread our super intelligence intelligence intelligence throughout the universe throughout the universe throughout the universe and that doesn't mean and that doesn't mean and that doesn't mean sending very soft squishy creatures like sending very soft squishy creatures like sending very soft squishy creatures like humans yeah humans yeah humans yeah the universe wakes up the universe wakes up the universe wakes up i mean we would sense i mean we would sense i mean we would sense intelligence masses of nanobots which intelligence masses of nanobots which intelligence masses of nanobots which can then can then can then go out and um go out and um go out and um colonize these these other parts of the colonize these these other parts of the colonize these these other parts of the universe universe universe do you think there's intelligent alien do you think there's intelligent alien do you think there's intelligent alien civilizations out there civilizations out there civilizations out there that our bots might meet that our bots might meet that our bots might meet my hunch is no my hunch is no my hunch is no most people say yes absolutely i mean most people say yes absolutely i mean most people say yes absolutely i mean the the the universe and it's too big and they'll universe and it's too big and they'll universe and it's too big and they'll cite the drake cite the drake cite the drake equation equation equation and and i think in uh singularities near i have two analyses of the drake i have two analyses of the drake equation equation equation both with very reasonable assumptions both with very reasonable assumptions both with very reasonable assumptions and one gives you and one gives you and one gives you thousands of thousands of thousands of advanced civilizations in each galaxy advanced civilizations in each galaxy advanced civilizations in each galaxy and another one gives you one and another one gives you one and another one gives you one civilization civilization civilization and we know of one and we know of one and we know of one a lot of the analyses

a lot of the analyses a lot of the analyses are forgetting the exponential growth of are forgetting the exponential growth of are forgetting the exponential growth of of computation of computation of computation because we've gone because we've gone because we've gone from where the fastest way i could send from where the fastest way i could send from where the fastest way i could send a message to somebody was with a pony a message to somebody was with a pony a message to somebody was with a pony which was what like uh a century and a which was what like uh a century and a which was what like uh a century and a half ago yeah half ago yeah half ago yeah uh to uh to uh to the advanced civilization we have today the advanced civilization we have today the advanced civilization we have today and and if you accept what i've said and and if you accept what i've said and and if you accept what i've said go forward a few decades you can have go forward a few decades you can have go forward a few decades you can have absolutely fantastic amount of absolutely fantastic amount of absolutely fantastic amount of civilization civilization civilization compared to a pony and that's in a compared to a pony and that's in a compared to a pony and that's in a couple hundred years couple hundred years couple hundred years yeah the speed and the scale of yeah the speed and the scale of yeah the speed and the scale of information transfer is just exp is information transfer is just exp is information transfer is just exp is growing exponentially growing exponentially growing exponentially in a blink of an eye in a blink of an eye in a blink of an eye now think about these other now think about these other now think about these other civilizations civilizations civilizations they're going to be spread out at cosmic they're going to be spread out at cosmic they're going to be spread out at cosmic times times times so if something is like ahead of us or so if something is like ahead of us or so if something is like ahead of us or behind us it could be ahead of us or behind us it could be ahead of us or behind us it could be ahead of us or behind us by behind us by behind us by maybe millions of years maybe millions of years maybe millions of years which isn't that much i mean the the which isn't that much i mean the the which isn't that much i mean the the world is world is world is billions of years old billions of years old billions of years old 14 billion or something 14 billion or something 14 billion or something so so so even a thousand years even a thousand years even a thousand years if two or three hundred years just if two or three hundred years just if two or three hundred years just enough to go from a pony to fantastic enough to go from a pony to fantastic enough to go from a pony to fantastic amount of civilization amount of civilization amount of civilization we would see that we would see that we would see that so of other civilizations that have so of other civilizations that have so of other civilizations that have occurred occurred occurred okay some might be hot behind us but okay some might be hot behind us but okay some might be hot behind us but some might be ahead of us some might be ahead of us some might be ahead of us if they're ahead of us they're ahead of if they're ahead of us they're ahead of if they're ahead of us they're ahead of us by

us by us by thousands millions of years and they thousands millions of years and they thousands millions of years and they would be so far beyond us they would be would be so far beyond us they would be would be so far beyond us they would be doing galaxy-wide engineering yeah but doing galaxy-wide engineering yeah but doing galaxy-wide engineering yeah but we don't see anything doing galaxy web we don't see anything doing galaxy web we don't see anything doing galaxy web engineering engineering engineering so either they don't exist so either they don't exist so either they don't exist or this very universe or this very universe or this very universe is a construction of an alien species is a construction of an alien species is a construction of an alien species we're living inside a video game we're living inside a video game we're living inside a video game well that's another explanation that yes well that's another explanation that yes well that's another explanation that yes you've got some teenage kids in another you've got some teenage kids in another you've got some teenage kids in another civilization civilization civilization do you do you find compelling the do you do you find compelling the do you do you find compelling the simulation hypothesis as a thought simulation hypothesis as a thought simulation hypothesis as a thought experiment that we're living in a experiment that we're living in a experiment that we're living in a simulation the universe is simulation the universe is simulation the universe is computational computational computational so we are an example so we are an example so we are an example in a in a in a computational world computational world computational world therefore therefore therefore uh it is a simulation it doesn't uh it is a simulation it doesn't uh it is a simulation it doesn't necessarily mean an experiment by necessarily mean an experiment by necessarily mean an experiment by some high school kid in another world some high school kid in another world some high school kid in another world but it's nonetheless but it's nonetheless but it's nonetheless is taking place in a computational world is taking place in a computational world is taking place in a computational world and everything that's going on is is and everything that's going on is is and everything that's going on is is basically basically basically a form of of computation a form of of computation a form of of computation um um um so you really have to define what you so you really have to define what you so you really have to define what you mean by mean by mean by uh uh uh this whole world being a simulation well this whole world being a simulation well this whole world being a simulation well then it's then it's then it's it's the teenager that it's the teenager that it's the teenager that that makes the video game you know us that makes the video game you know us that makes the video game you know us humans with our current limited humans with our current limited humans with our current limited cognitive capability cognitive capability cognitive capability have

have have strived to understand ourselves and we strived to understand ourselves and we strived to understand ourselves and we have have have created religions created religions created religions we think of god we think of god we think of god whatever that is do you think god exists do you think god exists and if so who is god and if so who is god and if so who is god i alluded to this before we we started i alluded to this before we we started i alluded to this before we we started out with out with out with lots of particles going around yeah and lots of particles going around yeah and lots of particles going around yeah and there's nothing that represents there's nothing that represents there's nothing that represents love love love and and and creativity creativity creativity um and somehow we've gotten into a world and somehow we've gotten into a world where love actually exists where love actually exists where love actually exists and that has to do actually with and that has to do actually with and that has to do actually with consciousness because you can't have consciousness because you can't have consciousness because you can't have love without consciousness love without consciousness love without consciousness so to me that's god the fact that we so to me that's god the fact that we so to me that's god the fact that we have something where have something where have something where love where you can be devoted to someone love where you can be devoted to someone love where you can be devoted to someone else and and really feel that else and and really feel that else and and really feel that love love love um um um that's that's god that's that's god that's that's god and if you look at the old testament and if you look at the old testament and if you look at the old testament it was actually created by several it was actually created by several it was actually created by several different different different rabbinates rabbinates rabbinates in there in there in there and i think they've identified three of and i think they've identified three of and i think they've identified three of them them them one one of them one one of them one one of them dealt with god dealt with god dealt with god as a person that you can make deals with as a person that you can make deals with as a person that you can make deals with and he gets angry and he and he gets angry and he and he gets angry and he wrecks wrecks wrecks vengeance on various people vengeance on various people vengeance on various people but two of them actually talk about god

but two of them actually talk about god but two of them actually talk about god as a symbol of love and peace and as a symbol of love and peace and as a symbol of love and peace and harmony and harmony and harmony and so forth uh that's how they describe god so forth uh that's how they describe god so forth uh that's how they describe god and so that's my view of god and so that's my view of god and so that's my view of god not not as a person in the sky that you not not as a person in the sky that you not not as a person in the sky that you can make deals with can make deals with can make deals with it's whatever the magic that goes from it's whatever the magic that goes from it's whatever the magic that goes from basic elements basic elements basic elements to things like consciousness and love to things like consciousness and love to things like consciousness and love do you think do you think do you think one of the things i find extremely one of the things i find extremely one of the things i find extremely beautiful and powerful is cellular beautiful and powerful is cellular beautiful and powerful is cellular automata which you also touch on automata which you also touch on automata which you also touch on do you think whatever the heck happens do you think whatever the heck happens do you think whatever the heck happens in cellular automata where interesting in cellular automata where interesting in cellular automata where interesting complicated objects emerge complicated objects emerge complicated objects emerge god is in there too god is in there too god is in there too the emergence of love the emergence of love the emergence of love in this in this in this seemingly privileged earth of creating a seemingly privileged earth of creating a seemingly privileged earth of creating a replicant replicant replicant is that they would love you and you would love they would love you and you would love them them them there wouldn't be much point of doing it there wouldn't be much point of doing it there wouldn't be much point of doing it if that didn't happen if that didn't happen if that didn't happen but all of it i guess what i'm saying but all of it i guess what i'm saying but all of it i guess what i'm saying about cellular automata is about cellular automata is about cellular automata is it's a primitive building blocks and it's a primitive building blocks and it's a primitive building blocks and they somehow create they somehow create they somehow create beautiful things beautiful things beautiful things is there some deep truth to that is there some deep truth to that is there some deep truth to that about how our universe works is the the about how our universe works is the the about how our universe works is the the emergence from simple rules emergence from simple rules emergence from simple rules beautiful complex objects can emerge beautiful complex objects can emerge beautiful complex objects can emerge is that the thing that made us is that the thing that made us is that the thing that made us yeah as we went through all the six yeah as we went through all the six yeah as we went through all the six phases of reality

phases of reality phases of reality that's a good way to look at it that's a good way to look at it that's a good way to look at it it just makes them point to the whole it just makes them point to the whole it just makes them point to the whole value of value of value of having a universe having a universe having a universe do you think about your own mortality do you think about your own mortality do you think about your own mortality are you afraid of it are you afraid of it are you afraid of it yes but i keep going back yes but i keep going back yes but i keep going back to my to my to my idea of being able to expand idea of being able to expand idea of being able to expand human life human life human life quickly enough quickly enough quickly enough in advance of our getting there in advance of our getting there in advance of our getting there longevity escape velocity longevity escape velocity longevity escape velocity um um um which we're not quite at yet which we're not quite at yet which we're not quite at yet but i think we're actually pretty close but i think we're actually pretty close but i think we're actually pretty close particularly with for example doing particularly with for example doing particularly with for example doing simulated biology simulated biology simulated biology uh i think we can probably get there uh i think we can probably get there uh i think we can probably get there within within within say by the end of this decade say by the end of this decade say by the end of this decade and that's my goal and that's my goal and that's my goal you hope to achieve the longevity escape you hope to achieve the longevity escape you hope to achieve the longevity escape velocity velocity velocity you hope to achieve immortality well immortality is hard to say i can't well immortality is hard to say i can't really come on your program saying i've really come on your program saying i've really come on your program saying i've done it i've achieved immortality right done it i've achieved immortality right done it i've achieved immortality right because it's never forever because it's never forever because it's never forever um um um a long time a long time of living well a long time a long time of living well a long time a long time of living well but we'd like to actually advance human but we'd like to actually advance human but we'd like to actually advance human life expectancy advance my life life expectancy advance my life life expectancy advance my life expectancy expectancy expectancy more than a year more than a year more than a year every year every year every year and i think we can get there within by and i think we can get there within by and i think we can get there within by the end of this decade the end of this decade the end of this decade how do you think we do it how do you think we do it how do you think we do it so there's practical things um

so there's practical things um so there's practical things um and transcend the nine steps to living and transcend the nine steps to living and transcend the nine steps to living well forever your book you describe well forever your book you describe well forever your book you describe just that there's practical things like just that there's practical things like just that there's practical things like health health health exercise all those things yeah i mean we exercise all those things yeah i mean we exercise all those things yeah i mean we live in a body that doesn't live in a body that doesn't live in a body that doesn't last last last forever forever forever there's no reason why it can't though there's no reason why it can't though there's no reason why it can't though and we're discovering things i think and we're discovering things i think and we're discovering things i think that will extend it that will extend it that will extend it um but you do have to deal with i mean i've but you do have to deal with i mean i've got various got various got various issues issues issues went to mexico went to mexico went to mexico 40 years ago 40 years ago 40 years ago developed salmonella developed salmonella developed salmonella that created pancreatitis that created pancreatitis that created pancreatitis which gave me a strange form of diabetes type 1 diabetes because that's an type 1 diabetes because that's an autoimmune disorder that destroys your autoimmune disorder that destroys your autoimmune disorder that destroys your pancreas i don't have that pancreas i don't have that pancreas i don't have that but it's also not type 2 diabetes but it's also not type 2 diabetes but it's also not type 2 diabetes because type 2 diabetes is your pancreas because type 2 diabetes is your pancreas because type 2 diabetes is your pancreas works fine but your cells don't absorb works fine but your cells don't absorb works fine but your cells don't absorb the insulin well the insulin well the insulin well i don't have that either i don't have that either i don't have that either the pancreatitis i had the pancreatitis i had the pancreatitis i had partially damaged my partially damaged my partially damaged my pancreas but it was a one-time thing it pancreas but it was a one-time thing it pancreas but it was a one-time thing it didn't continue didn't continue didn't continue and i've learned now how to control it and i've learned now how to control it and i've learned now how to control it but so that's just something i had to do but so that's just something i had to do but so that's just something i had to do uh in order to uh in order to uh in order to continue to exist continue to exist continue to exist it's your particular biological system it's your particular biological system it's your particular biological system you have to figure out a few hacks you have to figure out a few hacks you have to figure out a few hacks and the is that science would be yeah

and the is that science would be yeah and the is that science would be yeah you have to do that much better actually you have to do that much better actually you have to do that much better actually yeah yeah yeah so i mean i i do spend a lot of time so i mean i i do spend a lot of time so i mean i i do spend a lot of time just tinkering with my own body to keep just tinkering with my own body to keep just tinkering with my own body to keep it going it going it going uh so i do think i'll uh so i do think i'll uh so i do think i'll last last last till the end of this decade and i think till the end of this decade and i think till the end of this decade and i think we'll achieve longevity escape velocity we'll achieve longevity escape velocity we'll achieve longevity escape velocity i think that we'll start with people who i think that we'll start with people who i think that we'll start with people who are very diligent about this are very diligent about this are very diligent about this eventually it'll become eventually it'll become eventually it'll become sort of routine that people will be able sort of routine that people will be able sort of routine that people will be able to do it so if you're talking about to do it so if you're talking about to do it so if you're talking about kids today or even people in their 20s kids today or even people in their 20s kids today or even people in their 20s or 30s it's really not or 30s it's really not or 30s it's really not a very serious problem a very serious problem a very serious problem i have had some discussions with i have had some discussions with i have had some discussions with relatives who were relatives who were relatives who were like almost 100 like almost 100 like almost 100 and and and saying well we're working on it as saying well we're working on it as saying well we're working on it as quickly as possible then quickly as possible then quickly as possible then i don't know if that's gonna work i don't know if that's gonna work i don't know if that's gonna work is there a case this is a difficult is there a case this is a difficult is there a case this is a difficult question but is there a case to be made question but is there a case to be made question but is there a case to be made against against against living forever living forever living forever that that that a finite life that mortality is a a finite life that mortality is a a finite life that mortality is a feature not a bug feature not a bug feature not a bug that that that that that that living living living a shorter so dying makes a shorter so dying makes a shorter so dying makes ice cream taste delicious ice cream taste delicious ice cream taste delicious makes life intensely beautiful more than makes life intensely beautiful more than makes life intensely beautiful more than uh uh uh most people believe that weighing most people believe that weighing most people believe that weighing except if you present a death of anybody except if you present a death of anybody except if you present a death of anybody they they they care about or love care about or love care about or love they find that extremely depressing

they find that extremely depressing they find that extremely depressing and i know people who feel that way and i know people who feel that way and i know people who feel that way 20 30 20 30 20 30 40 40 40 years later they still want them back so i mean so i mean death is not death is not death is not something to celebrate something to celebrate something to celebrate but but but we've lived in a world where people just we've lived in a world where people just we've lived in a world where people just accept this life is short you see it all accept this life is short you see it all accept this life is short you see it all the time on tv life's short you have to the time on tv life's short you have to the time on tv life's short you have to take advantage of it and nobody accepts take advantage of it and nobody accepts take advantage of it and nobody accepts the fact that you could actually go the fact that you could actually go the fact that you could actually go beyond beyond beyond normal lifetimes normal lifetimes normal lifetimes but any time we talk about death or but any time we talk about death or but any time we talk about death or death of a person death of a person death of a person even one death is a terrible tragedy even one death is a terrible tragedy even one death is a terrible tragedy if you have somebody that lives 200 if you have somebody that lives 200 if you have somebody that lives 200 years old we still years old we still years old we still love them love them love them in in return in in return in in return and there's no limit and there's no limit and there's no limit limitation to that in fact these kinds limitation to that in fact these kinds limitation to that in fact these kinds of uh of uh of uh trends are going to provide trends are going to provide trends are going to provide greater and greater opportunity for greater and greater opportunity for greater and greater opportunity for everybody even if we have more people everybody even if we have more people everybody even if we have more people so let me ask about an alien species or so let me ask about an alien species or so let me ask about an alien species or a super intelligent ai 500 years from a super intelligent ai 500 years from a super intelligent ai 500 years from now that will look back and uh remember ray kurzweil version and uh remember ray kurzweil version zero zero zero the uh before the replicants spread the uh before the replicants spread the uh before the replicants spread uh how do you hope they remember you uh how do you hope they remember you uh how do you hope they remember you in a um hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy in a um hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy in a um hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy summary of ray kurzweil what do you hope summary of ray kurzweil what do you hope summary of ray kurzweil what do you hope your legacy is your legacy is your legacy is well i mean i do hope to be around so

well i mean i do hope to be around so well i mean i do hope to be around so that's some version of you yes so that's some version of you yes so that's some version of you yes so um do you think you'll be the same um do you think you'll be the same um do you think you'll be the same person around person around person around i mean am i the same person i was when i i mean am i the same person i was when i i mean am i the same person i was when i was that's true he's 20 years old was that's true he's 20 years old was that's true he's 20 years old you would be the same person you would be the same person you would be the same person in that same way but yes we're different in that same way but yes we're different in that same way but yes we're different we're doing um we're doing um we're doing um what we have of that all you have of what we have of that all you have of what we have of that all you have of that person is your memories which are that person is your memories which are that person is your memories which are probably um probably um probably um distorted in some way distorted in some way distorted in some way you just remember the good parts you just remember the good parts you just remember the good parts depending on your psyche depending on your psyche depending on your psyche you might focus on the bad parts might you might focus on the bad parts might you might focus on the bad parts might focus on the good parts focus on the good parts focus on the good parts right but right but right but i mean i still have a relationship to i mean i still have a relationship to i mean i still have a relationship to the way i was when i was earlier when i the way i was when i was earlier when i the way i was when i was earlier when i was was was younger younger younger how will you and the other super how will you and the other super how will you and the other super intelligent ais remember intelligent ais remember intelligent ais remember you of today from 500 years ago you of today from 500 years ago you of today from 500 years ago what do you hope to be remembered by what do you hope to be remembered by what do you hope to be remembered by this version of you this version of you this version of you before the singularity before the singularity before the singularity well i think it's expressed well in my well i think it's expressed well in my well i think it's expressed well in my books books books trying to trying to trying to create some new realities that people create some new realities that people create some new realities that people will accept i mean that's something that will accept i mean that's something that will accept i mean that's something that gives me great gives me great gives me great pleasure and great and great greater insight into what what makes greater insight into what what makes greater insight into what what makes humans humans humans valuable i'm not the only person who's i'm not the only person who's uh tempted to uh tempted to uh tempted to comment on that but

comment on that but comment on that but and uh optimism that permeates your work and uh optimism that permeates your work and uh optimism that permeates your work optimism about the future optimism about the future optimism about the future it's ultimately that optimism paves the it's ultimately that optimism paves the it's ultimately that optimism paves the way for building a better future yeah way for building a better future yeah way for building a better future yeah i agree with that i agree with that i agree with that so you uh asked so you uh asked so you uh asked your dad about the meaning of life and your dad about the meaning of life and your dad about the meaning of life and he said love he said love he said love let me ask you the same question let me ask you the same question let me ask you the same question what's the meaning of life what's the meaning of life what's the meaning of life why are we here why are we here why are we here this beautiful journey that we're on this beautiful journey that we're on this beautiful journey that we're on in phase in phase in phase fours reaching for phase five fours reaching for phase five fours reaching for phase five of this evolutionary information of this evolutionary information of this evolutionary information processing why processing why processing why well i think i'd give the same answers well i think i'd give the same answers well i think i'd give the same answers as my father as my father as my father um um um because if there were no love and we because if there were no love and we because if there were no love and we didn't care about anybody didn't care about anybody didn't care about anybody there'd be no point existing there'd be no point existing there'd be no point existing love is the meaning of life the ai love is the meaning of life the ai love is the meaning of life the ai version of your dad had a good point version of your dad had a good point version of your dad had a good point well i think that's a beautiful way to well i think that's a beautiful way to well i think that's a beautiful way to end it end it end it right thank you for your work thank you right thank you for your work thank you right thank you for your work thank you for being who you are for being who you are for being who you are thank you for dreaming about a beautiful thank you for dreaming about a beautiful thank you for dreaming about a beautiful future and uh creating it along the way future and uh creating it along the way future and uh creating it along the way and thank you so much for and thank you so much for and thank you so much for spending your really valuable time with spending your really valuable time with spending your really valuable time with me today this was awesome well it's my me today this was awesome well it's my me today this was awesome well it's my pleasure and uh you have some great pleasure and uh you have some great pleasure and uh you have some great insights insights insights both into me and into humanity as well both into me and into humanity as well both into me and into humanity as well so i appreciate that so i appreciate that so i appreciate that thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with raycor as well to conversation with raycor as well to conversation with raycor as well to support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now

our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from isaac asimov isaac asimov isaac asimov it is change continuous change it is change continuous change it is change continuous change inevitable change that is the dominant inevitable change that is the dominant inevitable change that is the dominant factor in society today factor in society today factor in society today no sensible decision can be made any no sensible decision can be made any no sensible decision can be made any longer without taking into account not longer without taking into account not longer without taking into account not only the world as it is but the world as only the world as it is but the world as only the world as it is but the world as it will be it will be it will be this in turn means that our statesmen this in turn means that our statesmen this in turn means that our statesmen our businessmen our every man our businessmen our every man our businessmen our every man must take on a science fictional way of must take on a science fictional way of must take on a science fictional way of thinking thinking thinking thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see you next time