Botez Sisters: Chess, Streaming, and Fame | Lex Fridman Podcast #319

i mean i've definitely experienced i mean i've definitely experienced moments where moments where moments where i didn't want to do anything but chess i i didn't want to do anything but chess i i didn't want to do anything but chess i also say that's pretty universal i think also say that's pretty universal i think also say that's pretty universal i think if you want to be that the best at if you want to be that the best at if you want to be that the best at anything you do or any sport you have to anything you do or any sport you have to anything you do or any sport you have to be that level of obsessed the following is a conversation with the following is a conversation with alexander and andrea botez they're alexander and andrea botez they're alexander and andrea botez they're sisters professional chess players sisters professional chess players sisters professional chess players commentators educators entertainers and commentators educators entertainers and commentators educators entertainers and streamers streamers streamers their channel is called botezlive on their channel is called botezlive on their channel is called botezlive on twitch and youtube i highly recommend twitch and youtube i highly recommend twitch and youtube i highly recommend you check it out you check it out you check it out a small side note about the currently a small side note about the currently a small side note about the currently ongoing controversy in the chess world ongoing controversy in the chess world ongoing controversy in the chess world where the 19 year old grandmaster hans where the 19 year old grandmaster hans where the 19 year old grandmaster hans niemann beat magnus carlson at the niemann beat magnus carlson at the niemann beat magnus carlson at the sinkfield cup sinkfield cup sinkfield cup after this magnus for the first time after this magnus for the first time after this magnus for the first time ever withdrew from the tournament ever withdrew from the tournament ever withdrew from the tournament implying with a tweet that there may implying with a tweet that there may implying with a tweet that there may have been cheating or at least something have been cheating or at least something have been cheating or at least something shady going on shady going on shady going on folks like the grandmaster hikaru folks like the grandmaster hikaru folks like the grandmaster hikaru nakamura fanned the flames of cheating nakamura fanned the flames of cheating nakamura fanned the flames of cheating accusations and the internet accusations and the internet accusations and the internet made a bunch of proposals made a bunch of proposals made a bunch of proposals on how the cheating could have been done on how the cheating could have been done on how the cheating could have been done and it ranged from the ridiculous to the and it ranged from the ridiculous to the and it ranged from the ridiculous to the hilarious hilarious hilarious often both often both often both hans himself came out and said that he hans himself came out and said that he hans himself came out and said that he has cheated before when he was 12 and 16 has cheated before when he was 12 and 16 has cheated before when he was 12 and 16 on random online games to jack up his on random online games to jack up his on random online games to jack up his rating rating rating but but but he said that he has never cheated in he said that he has never cheated in he said that he has never cheated in person over the board person over the board person over the board danny wrench from chess.com who i've danny wrench from chess.com who i've danny wrench from chess.com who i've spoken with may make a statement in spoken with may make a statement in spoken with may make a statement in response to hanza's claims soon response to hanza's claims soon response to hanza's claims soon folks like grandmaster yakabuga spoke to folks like grandmaster yakabuga spoke to folks like grandmaster yakabuga spoke to his experience training hans neiman and

his experience training hans neiman and his experience training hans neiman and has said that his memory and intuition has said that his memory and intuition has said that his memory and intuition were quite brilliant were quite brilliant were quite brilliant so as you see there's a lot of so as you see there's a lot of so as you see there's a lot of perspectives on this chess base has a perspectives on this chess base has a perspectives on this chess base has a good summary of the saga that i'll link good summary of the saga that i'll link good summary of the saga that i'll link in the description in the description in the description also note that this is so quickly moving also note that this is so quickly moving also note that this is so quickly moving that new stuff might come out between me that new stuff might come out between me that new stuff might come out between me recording this and publishing the recording this and publishing the recording this and publishing the episode but i thought i'd mention this episode but i thought i'd mention this episode but i thought i'd mention this anyway since the episode with the anyway since the episode with the anyway since the episode with the beautiful sisters is a conversation beautiful sisters is a conversation beautiful sisters is a conversation about chess and was recorded shortly about chess and was recorded shortly about chess and was recorded shortly before the controversy so we didn't talk before the controversy so we didn't talk before the controversy so we didn't talk about it about it about it i'm considering having hans on this i'm considering having hans on this i'm considering having hans on this podcast and also magnus back on the podcast and also magnus back on the podcast and also magnus back on the podcast and maybe others like hikaru or podcast and maybe others like hikaru or podcast and maybe others like hikaru or folks from folks from folks from chess.com's anti-cheat staff to discuss chess.com's anti-cheat staff to discuss chess.com's anti-cheat staff to discuss their really interesting cheating their really interesting cheating their really interesting cheating detection algorithms detection algorithms detection algorithms but but but i may also just stay out of it i may also just stay out of it i may also just stay out of it i find just to be a beautiful game i find just to be a beautiful game i find just to be a beautiful game and the chess community full of and the chess community full of and the chess community full of fascinating brilliant people and so i'll fascinating brilliant people and so i'll fascinating brilliant people and so i'll keep having conversations like these keep having conversations like these keep having conversations like these about chess it's fun about chess it's fun about chess it's fun my goal with this podcast and in general my goal with this podcast and in general my goal with this podcast and in general as a human being as a human being as a human being is to increase the amount of love in the is to increase the amount of love in the is to increase the amount of love in the world world world sometimes that involves celebrating sometimes that involves celebrating sometimes that involves celebrating brilliance and beauty in science in art brilliance and beauty in science in art brilliance and beauty in science in art in chess in chess in chess sometimes it involves empathetic sometimes it involves empathetic sometimes it involves empathetic conversations with controversial figures conversations with controversial figures conversations with controversial figures that seek to understand that seek to understand that seek to understand not deride not deride not deride sometimes it involves standing against sometimes it involves standing against sometimes it involves standing against the internet lynch mob as the the internet lynch mob as the the internet lynch mob as the chess-based article calls it to hear the chess-based article calls it to hear the chess-based article calls it to hear the story of a human being who is under story of a human being who is under story of a human being who is under attack

attack attack even if it means i get attacked in the even if it means i get attacked in the even if it means i get attacked in the process as well process as well process as well this is the lex friedman podcast to this is the lex friedman podcast to this is the lex friedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends here's alexandra and andrea botez here's alexandra and andrea botez here's alexandra and andrea botez you just got back from italy you just got back from italy you just got back from italy what's the most memorable thing i was what's the most memorable thing i was what's the most memorable thing i was just there recently as well it was very just there recently as well it was very just there recently as well it was very chaotic because we went out on a whim chaotic because we went out on a whim chaotic because we went out on a whim and we only had our first hotel book and and we only had our first hotel book and and we only had our first hotel book and then we rented a car and drove around then we rented a car and drove around then we rented a car and drove around all of the cities and went to like five all of the cities and went to like five all of the cities and went to like five different cities in about a week and a different cities in about a week and a different cities in about a week and a bit um so i think it was just the bit um so i think it was just the bit um so i think it was just the variety of seeing so many different variety of seeing so many different variety of seeing so many different places when we're used to being at home places when we're used to being at home places when we're used to being at home all the time and andrea all the time and andrea all the time and andrea is yours your luggage yeah i would say is yours your luggage yeah i would say is yours your luggage yeah i would say it was the most stressful vacation we've it was the most stressful vacation we've it was the most stressful vacation we've been in in our life and it was a been in in our life and it was a been in in our life and it was a valuable learning lesson because now i valuable learning lesson because now i valuable learning lesson because now i know how to be prepared for trips um but know how to be prepared for trips um but know how to be prepared for trips um but we lost our bags and i never got him we lost our bags and i never got him we lost our bags and i never got him back and like alex said we didn't know back and like alex said we didn't know back and like alex said we didn't know where we'd be sleeping every night and where we'd be sleeping every night and where we'd be sleeping every night and we're just driving through a new city um we're just driving through a new city um we're just driving through a new city um with a giant van in the most narrowest with a giant van in the most narrowest with a giant van in the most narrowest streets with and getting in many many streets with and getting in many many streets with and getting in many many fights with italian men um so it wasn't fights with italian men um so it wasn't fights with italian men um so it wasn't really a vacation i saw this motion so really a vacation i saw this motion so really a vacation i saw this motion so many times many times many times wasn't it liberating to lose your wasn't it liberating to lose your wasn't it liberating to lose your baggage is it like a silver lining it baggage is it like a silver lining it baggage is it like a silver lining it was liberating my entire life i've was liberating my entire life i've was liberating my entire life i've always had the issue of over packing and always had the issue of over packing and always had the issue of over packing and i told her for the trip andrea you're i told her for the trip andrea you're i told her for the trip andrea you're gonna pack light right yeah alex yeah gonna pack light right yeah alex yeah gonna pack light right yeah alex yeah and then i see her stuffing her over you and then i see her stuffing her over you and then i see her stuffing her over you did the same we both had giant big extra did the same we both had giant big extra did the same we both had giant big extra baggage that we didn't need and i'm

baggage that we didn't need and i'm baggage that we didn't need and i'm actually very glad we lost it because actually very glad we lost it because actually very glad we lost it because for venice hauling that around on all for venice hauling that around on all for venice hauling that around on all the boats and through the tiny streets the boats and through the tiny streets the boats and through the tiny streets and there's no ubers and there's no ubers and there's no ubers and now it's the first time where i can and now it's the first time where i can and now it's the first time where i can travel without checking in a bag which travel without checking in a bag which travel without checking in a bag which i've never done before so now i've i've never done before so now i've i've never done before so now i've learned what it means to pack light learned what it means to pack light learned what it means to pack light because i saw that i could survive off because i saw that i could survive off because i saw that i could survive off of just my this sounds very dramatic but of just my this sounds very dramatic but of just my this sounds very dramatic but it was really a big learning lesson for it was really a big learning lesson for it was really a big learning lesson for me the driving must have been crazy me the driving must have been crazy me the driving must have been crazy because driving in italy is rough the because driving in italy is rough the because driving in italy is rough the driving was crazy i did most of it and driving was crazy i did most of it and driving was crazy i did most of it and it would be really interesting driving it would be really interesting driving it would be really interesting driving through places like florence or even through places like florence or even through places like florence or even through uh the beach areas that were through uh the beach areas that were through uh the beach areas that were super windy because they're two-way super windy because they're two-way super windy because they're two-way streets that should really only be one streets that should really only be one streets that should really only be one way so you'd be driving this huge van way so you'd be driving this huge van way so you'd be driving this huge van and then another car comes on a cliff and then another car comes on a cliff and then another car comes on a cliff and you're just waiting for it to slowly and you're just waiting for it to slowly and you're just waiting for it to slowly pass so pass so pass so it took all of my focus and it took all of my focus and it took all of my focus and concentration to drive well in italy but concentration to drive well in italy but concentration to drive well in italy but it was actually really relaxing because it was actually really relaxing because it was actually really relaxing because the hardest thing about uh the hardest thing about uh the hardest thing about uh making a lot of videos online is you're making a lot of videos online is you're making a lot of videos online is you're always thinking about it what's coming always thinking about it what's coming always thinking about it what's coming next and when we were in italy it was so next and when we were in italy it was so next and when we were in italy it was so chaotic that i did not think about work chaotic that i did not think about work chaotic that i did not think about work for a good week and a bit for a good week and a bit for a good week and a bit oh cause you're just we were stressed i oh cause you're just we were stressed i oh cause you're just we were stressed i was just trying to keep us alive was just trying to keep us alive was just trying to keep us alive higher priority and that was kind of fun higher priority and that was kind of fun higher priority and that was kind of fun it was kind of fun no planning nothing i it was kind of fun no planning nothing i it was kind of fun no planning nothing i wouldn't recommend it or ever do that wouldn't recommend it or ever do that wouldn't recommend it or ever do that again but again but again but it sounds sounds pretty awesome and we it sounds sounds pretty awesome and we it sounds sounds pretty awesome and we even randomly ran into two friends of even randomly ran into two friends of even randomly ran into two friends of ours who were in the same city and we ours who were in the same city and we ours who were in the same city and we just traveled with them for about half just traveled with them for about half just traveled with them for about half of the trip yeah so you just took on the of the trip yeah so you just took on the of the trip yeah so you just took on the chaos exactly it was an adventure okay

chaos exactly it was an adventure okay chaos exactly it was an adventure okay and i see like because you were using and i see like because you were using and i see like because you were using your hands a lot you gotten you you your hands a lot you gotten you you your hands a lot you gotten you you picked up some of the picked up some of the picked up some of the the italian hand gestures i did we did the italian hand gestures i did we did the italian hand gestures i did we did get yelled at by a lot of italians the get yelled at by a lot of italians the get yelled at by a lot of italians the old italian grandmas would come to us old italian grandmas would come to us old italian grandmas would come to us after breakfast because we'd leave after breakfast because we'd leave after breakfast because we'd leave something on the plate and she'd be like something on the plate and she'd be like something on the plate and she'd be like you could feed an entire village with you could feed an entire village with you could feed an entire village with that tell your friends and we'd be we'd that tell your friends and we'd be we'd that tell your friends and we'd be we'd feel so ash yeah we got cursed out a lot feel so ash yeah we got cursed out a lot feel so ash yeah we got cursed out a lot but it really reminded me of where we but it really reminded me of where we but it really reminded me of where we grew up and how true yeah bring back grew up and how true yeah bring back grew up and how true yeah bring back those where'd you grow up those where'd you grow up those where'd you grow up oh we were oh we were oh we were romanian but it was like an immigrant romanian but it was like an immigrant romanian but it was like an immigrant neighborhood neighborhood neighborhood um so you know same if you don't finish um so you know same if you don't finish um so you know same if you don't finish your plate that's disrespectful to the your plate that's disrespectful to the your plate that's disrespectful to the people who made the food how's the food people who made the food how's the food people who made the food how's the food in italy i feel like uh the carbs thing in italy i feel like uh the carbs thing in italy i feel like uh the carbs thing is too much very yeah i think very is too much very yeah i think very is too much very yeah i think very overrated in my opinion so i'm actually overrated in my opinion so i'm actually overrated in my opinion so i'm actually not supposed to eat gluten because i not supposed to eat gluten because i not supposed to eat gluten because i have an allergy yeah but i was in italy have an allergy yeah but i was in italy have an allergy yeah but i was in italy and it's you know gluten galore so i was and it's you know gluten galore so i was and it's you know gluten galore so i was actually eating a lot of it and it was actually eating a lot of it and it was actually eating a lot of it and it was very interesting because i didn't get very interesting because i didn't get very interesting because i didn't get sick while i was in italy but i do while sick while i was in italy but i do while sick while i was in italy but i do while i'm in the u.s i'm in the u.s i'm in the u.s so somehow so somehow so somehow the food was actually maybe more okay the food was actually maybe more okay the food was actually maybe more okay for me to digest which i appreciated but for me to digest which i appreciated but for me to digest which i appreciated but i didn't like it as much as i thought i didn't like it as much as i thought i didn't like it as much as i thought did you like the food there yeah did you like the food there yeah did you like the food there yeah no no no it's uh i did i did i love cars but it's it's uh i did i did i love cars but it's it's uh i did i did i love cars but it's um um um it's it feels like vegas when when i go it's it feels like vegas when when i go it's it feels like vegas when when i go there for the food it's like if i stay there for the food it's like if i stay there for the food it's like if i stay here here here too long i'm gonna do things i regret too long i'm gonna do things i regret too long i'm gonna do things i regret that's what it feels like with the food that's what it feels like with the food that's what it feels like with the food right i don't know how to moderate and right i don't know how to moderate and right i don't know how to moderate and everybody is pushing very large portions everybody is pushing very large portions everybody is pushing very large portions and wild kind of eating things on you

and wild kind of eating things on you and wild kind of eating things on you uh pasta uh pasta uh pasta pizza and it's so good and bread pizza and it's so good and bread pizza and it's so good and bread so delicious so so delicious so so delicious so yeah i i love it but i regret everything yeah i i love it but i regret everything yeah i i love it but i regret everything so it's like i don't want to i don't so it's like i don't want to i don't so it's like i don't want to i don't want to go to a place where want to go to a place where want to go to a place where um i'm going to regret everything i do um i'm going to regret everything i do um i'm going to regret everything i do for too long of a time for too long of a time for too long of a time yeah surprisingly the people there yeah surprisingly the people there yeah surprisingly the people there though are still very fit and everyone though are still very fit and everyone though are still very fit and everyone stays in good shape but that's probably stays in good shape but that's probably stays in good shape but that's probably because you're walking around all day because you're walking around all day because you're walking around all day and you're much more active than and you're much more active than and you're much more active than anything and they also just know how to anything and they also just know how to anything and they also just know how to moderate food i think i got used to the moderate food i think i got used to the moderate food i think i got used to the u.s way of eating the u.s porsche what u.s way of eating the u.s porsche what u.s way of eating the u.s porsche what is that is that is that just a lot just a lot just a lot never always a lot yeah and more and i never always a lot yeah and more and i never always a lot yeah and more and i feel in the u.s food advertisements are feel in the u.s food advertisements are feel in the u.s food advertisements are also much more in your face and you're also much more in your face and you're also much more in your face and you're more often reminded of junk food than we more often reminded of junk food than we more often reminded of junk food than we were in italy so even though you're were in italy so even though you're were in italy so even though you're eating less healthy things i think we're eating less healthy things i think we're eating less healthy things i think we're getting cravings and being pushed getting cravings and being pushed getting cravings and being pushed towards junk food less often towards junk food less often towards junk food less often all right i got to ask you a hard all right i got to ask you a hard all right i got to ask you a hard question question question uh so the romance languages so i think uh so the romance languages so i think uh so the romance languages so i think french is up there as like number one french is up there as like number one french is up there as like number one number one in terms of i don't know this number one in terms of i don't know this number one in terms of i don't know this was ranking them was ranking them was ranking them oh you guys speak italian or no not oh you guys speak italian or no not oh you guys speak italian or no not italian but we studied french and italian but we studied french and italian but we studied french and spanish in school spanish in school spanish in school and romanian i feel like every country and romanian i feel like every country and romanian i feel like every country calls their language a romance like no calls their language a romance like no calls their language a romance like no but it's romanian french spanish but it's romanian french spanish but it's romanian french spanish portuguese portuguese portuguese um and i think there was one more that um and i think there was one more that um and i think there was one more that was like this dialect but those are was like this dialect but those are was like this dialect but those are considered the romance languages okay so considered the romance languages okay so considered the romance languages okay so where would you put italian i think we where would you put italian i think we where would you put italian i think we got yelled at i'm so

it's on the bottom of the list because it's on the bottom of the list because people did not use it nicely but i people did not use it nicely but i people did not use it nicely but i always really liked how french sounds always really liked how french sounds always really liked how french sounds um um um i i think something about it where maybe i i think something about it where maybe i i think something about it where maybe spanish actually sounds nicer to the spanish actually sounds nicer to the spanish actually sounds nicer to the ears but french has more character and ears but french has more character and ears but french has more character and it feels more sultry so i like french it feels more sultry so i like french it feels more sultry so i like french that was my answer too oh sultry okay that was my answer too oh sultry okay that was my answer too oh sultry okay yeah yeah yeah i feel like uh french well in france i i feel like uh french well in france i i feel like uh french well in france i feel like i'm always being judged feel like i'm always being judged feel like i'm always being judged like they're better than me that's what like they're better than me that's what like they're better than me that's what friends they are better yeah friends they are better yeah friends they are better yeah this is so true this is so true this is so true uh which is why you know yeah i long to uh which is why you know yeah i long to uh which is why you know yeah i long to belong to that i like the british accent belong to that i like the british accent belong to that i like the british accent the british really yeah actually one the british really yeah actually one the british really yeah actually one thing we did on our italian trip is we thing we did on our italian trip is we thing we did on our italian trip is we just picked up british accents for the just picked up british accents for the just picked up british accents for the entire trip for fun entire trip for fun entire trip for fun and we forgot we were doing them to the and we forgot we were doing them to the and we forgot we were doing them to the point where we talked to british people point where we talked to british people point where we talked to british people and they just ask us why are you talking and they just ask us why are you talking and they just ask us why are you talking like that i just couldn't stop i i did like that i just couldn't stop i i did like that i just couldn't stop i i did feel much more elegant and mature true feel much more elegant and mature true feel much more elegant and mature true people like you know i don't know if people like you know i don't know if people like you know i don't know if they felt the same way about us but it they felt the same way about us but it they felt the same way about us but it was more of you know the confidence was more of you know the confidence was more of you know the confidence you do feel like you're more poised for you do feel like you're more poised for you do feel like you're more poised for sure yeah sure yeah sure yeah so how'd you guys get into chess so how'd you guys get into chess so how'd you guys get into chess when when did you first let's say when when when did you first let's say when when when did you first let's say when did you first fall in love with chess so we both started playing when we were so we both started playing when we were pretty young around six years old that's pretty young around six years old that's pretty young around six years old that's when our dad taught us and when our dad taught us and when our dad taught us and i enjoyed playing chess because i had i enjoyed playing chess because i had i enjoyed playing chess because i had good results early on but a lot of it good results early on but a lot of it good results early on but a lot of it was being pushed from my dad to play was being pushed from my dad to play was being pushed from my dad to play chess and i only really started loving

chess and i only really started loving chess and i only really started loving it when we moved from canada and we it when we moved from canada and we it when we moved from canada and we started moving a lot and chess was the started moving a lot and chess was the started moving a lot and chess was the one stable thing that i had and it was one stable thing that i had and it was one stable thing that i had and it was also where all my also where all my also where all my uh friends were so it was kind of that uh friends were so it was kind of that uh friends were so it was kind of that foundational thing for me foundational thing for me foundational thing for me and that's when i started studying chess and that's when i started studying chess and that's when i started studying chess very intensely and when i started very intensely and when i started very intensely and when i started putting in the hours out of my own will putting in the hours out of my own will putting in the hours out of my own will not because i was being pushed by my dad not because i was being pushed by my dad not because i was being pushed by my dad that's when i started really loving it that's when i started really loving it that's when i started really loving it and i even wanted to take time off and i even wanted to take time off and i even wanted to take time off college to just focus on chess college to just focus on chess college to just focus on chess so training and competing training and so training and competing training and so training and competing training and competing yeah it was when i was doing competing yeah it was when i was doing competing yeah it was when i was doing it for myself that i started getting my it for myself that i started getting my it for myself that i started getting my best results best results best results and actually enjoying the thing and and actually enjoying the thing and and actually enjoying the thing and really enjoying it yeah i would spend really enjoying it yeah i would spend really enjoying it yeah i would spend summer vacation studying for tournaments summer vacation studying for tournaments summer vacation studying for tournaments and my mom would come and say you need and my mom would come and say you need and my mom would come and say you need to make friends go leave the house and to make friends go leave the house and to make friends go leave the house and i'd be like no i need to play chess and i'd be like no i need to play chess and i'd be like no i need to play chess and i i remember those moments that you i i remember those moments that you i i remember those moments that you rebelled by playing chess yeah exactly rebelled by playing chess yeah exactly rebelled by playing chess yeah exactly how did you get into it yeah my my how did you get into it yeah my my how did you get into it yeah my my experience with experience with experience with loving in high school is very opposite loving in high school is very opposite loving in high school is very opposite from alex's but right my sister was from alex's but right my sister was from alex's but right my sister was playing and my dad taught me when i was playing and my dad taught me when i was playing and my dad taught me when i was andrea was cool in high school unlike me andrea was cool in high school unlike me andrea was cool in high school unlike me you are uh i i wouldn't say cool i'd you are uh i i wouldn't say cool i'd you are uh i i wouldn't say cool i'd save more balance and i was interested save more balance and i was interested save more balance and i was interested in other hobbies in my childhood if i in other hobbies in my childhood if i in other hobbies in my childhood if i ever really did love chess there's ever really did love chess there's ever really did love chess there's certainly moments about like traveling certainly moments about like traveling certainly moments about like traveling and being together with my family and and being together with my family and and being together with my family and spending those moments together but spending those moments together but spending those moments together but those are more the social and the those are more the social and the those are more the social and the experiences but funny enough like i experiences but funny enough like i experiences but funny enough like i think my happiest moment where i really think my happiest moment where i really think my happiest moment where i really played the game for my own enjoyment was played the game for my own enjoyment was played the game for my own enjoyment was probably my most recent tournament probably my most recent tournament probably my most recent tournament because this was after obviously we've

because this was after obviously we've because this was after obviously we've been streaming and i'm no longer in high been streaming and i'm no longer in high been streaming and i'm no longer in high school but when i was in school i was school but when i was in school i was school but when i was in school i was always playing for college and for the always playing for college and for the always playing for college and for the results trying to build a resume so i results trying to build a resume so i results trying to build a resume so i was too stressed out about the pressure was too stressed out about the pressure was too stressed out about the pressure to really enjoy the game whereas when i to really enjoy the game whereas when i to really enjoy the game whereas when i just played my first tournament so it just played my first tournament so it just played my first tournament so it was like was like was like after like a two-year break because of after like a two-year break because of after like a two-year break because of the pandemic um and it was also all live the pandemic um and it was also all live the pandemic um and it was also all live on twitch so there was some pressure but on twitch so there was some pressure but on twitch so there was some pressure but it was the first time that like i was it was the first time that like i was it was the first time that like i was really eager to study for the game really eager to study for the game really eager to study for the game sitting and focusing since we've been sitting and focusing since we've been sitting and focusing since we've been streaming and not getting distracted by streaming and not getting distracted by streaming and not getting distracted by something else in years like i said and something else in years like i said and something else in years like i said and the tournament experience i hit my the tournament experience i hit my the tournament experience i hit my highest rating and it was my best highest rating and it was my best highest rating and it was my best tournament ever and i think most of that tournament ever and i think most of that tournament ever and i think most of that is because it came from my own enjoyment is because it came from my own enjoyment is because it came from my own enjoyment so so so you didn't enjoy the domination because you didn't enjoy the domination because you didn't enjoy the domination because i think you like did really well right i think you like did really well right i think you like did really well right this is like a couple months ago uh oh this is like a couple months ago uh oh this is like a couple months ago uh oh yeah yeah the tournament well of course yeah yeah the tournament well of course yeah yeah the tournament well of course i think the results came from enjoying i think the results came from enjoying i think the results came from enjoying the tournament because i would be in the tournament because i would be in the tournament because i would be in high school like studying double triple high school like studying double triple high school like studying double triple the amount of time like six hours every the amount of time like six hours every the amount of time like six hours every day compared to this tournament i didn't day compared to this tournament i didn't day compared to this tournament i didn't even prepare for it and for three years even prepare for it and for three years even prepare for it and for three years i wouldn't be able to pass one rating i wouldn't be able to pass one rating i wouldn't be able to pass one rating whereas in this one term and i passed it whereas in this one term and i passed it whereas in this one term and i passed it by like 70 points without even any by like 70 points without even any by like 70 points without even any preparation so it was i think as soon as preparation so it was i think as soon as preparation so it was i think as soon as you stop worrying about the competitions you stop worrying about the competitions you stop worrying about the competitions when the games get much better what does when the games get much better what does when the games get much better what does it mean to pass a rating so i was stuck it mean to pass a rating so i was stuck it mean to pass a rating so i was stuck at 1900. 1900 is 100 points off of at 1900. 1900 is 100 points off of at 1900. 1900 is 100 points off of expert yeah expert yeah expert yeah usually when you reach 2000 you're usually when you reach 2000 you're usually when you reach 2000 you're considered an expert which is the rating considered an expert which is the rating considered an expert which is the rating andre i was going for okay expert that's andre i was going for okay expert that's andre i was going for okay expert that's the technical term or this like the technical term or this like the technical term or this like it's more of a colloquial term where if it's more of a colloquial term where if it's more of a colloquial term where if somebody's around a 2000 you're playing

somebody's around a 2000 you're playing somebody's around a 2000 you're playing them in a tournament they won't have the them in a tournament they won't have the them in a tournament they won't have the actual title next to their name but you actual title next to their name but you actual title next to their name but you say i'm playing an expert what about say i'm playing an expert what about say i'm playing an expert what about like the the more official things like like the the more official things like like the the more official things like master that have to do with the ratings master that have to do with the ratings master that have to do with the ratings yeah so national master in the us is yeah so national master in the us is yeah so national master in the us is when you're 2200. when you're 2200. when you're 2200. okay and what's international master okay and what's international master okay and what's international master international master is based off of a international master is based off of a international master is based off of a different system the fide system which different system the fide system which different system the fide system which is international to be an international is international to be an international is international to be an international master it's master it's master it's 2400 and you have to have three 2400 and you have to have three 2400 and you have to have three international master norms international master norms international master norms yeah i think magnus said he's uh 28 6 yeah i think magnus said he's uh 28 6 yeah i think magnus said he's uh 28 6 something something something that was yeah and then he said uh that's that was yeah and then he said uh that's that was yeah and then he said uh that's pretty decent pretty decent pretty decent no well he always uh but the thing is i no well he always uh but the thing is i no well he always uh but the thing is i think what he meant think what he meant think what he meant is is is that's a decent rating because it that's a decent rating because it that's a decent rating because it accurately captures his actual level accurately captures his actual level accurately captures his actual level so it's uh it's not over inflated or so it's uh it's not over inflated or so it's uh it's not over inflated or underinflated and so on underinflated and so on underinflated and so on and so the discussion there was how do and so the discussion there was how do and so the discussion there was how do you get can a human being get to 2900 you get can a human being get to 2900 you get can a human being get to 2900 and then he says because my current and then he says because my current and then he says because my current rating is pretty decent rating is pretty decent rating is pretty decent representing my skill level it's gonna representing my skill level it's gonna representing my skill level it's gonna be a long road to actually get there be a long road to actually get there be a long road to actually get there right because it's like right because it's like right because it's like so you have to beat people your same so you have to beat people your same so you have to beat people your same level that's how the number increases level that's how the number increases level that's how the number increases exactly exactly exactly yeah and you beat a bunch of people in yeah and you beat a bunch of people in yeah and you beat a bunch of people in the tournament right that are higher the tournament right that are higher the tournament right that are higher than that very lucky oh i was playing i than that very lucky oh i was playing i than that very lucky oh i was playing i was really nervous because my category was really nervous because my category was really nervous because my category was like 200 points above my rating and was like 200 points above my rating and was like 200 points above my rating and of course of course of course i was very rusty and i hadn't played a i was very rusty and i hadn't played a i was very rusty and i hadn't played a tournament in a while but it went pretty tournament in a while but it went pretty tournament in a while but it went pretty well well well do you feel the pressure when you're do you feel the pressure when you're do you feel the pressure when you're actually recording it like the streaming actually recording it like the streaming actually recording it like the streaming it was it was it was definitely so before every round i was

definitely so before every round i was definitely so before every round i was vlogging and i was doing meet and greets vlogging and i was doing meet and greets vlogging and i was doing meet and greets and doing other things for them that's and doing other things for them that's and doing other things for them that's how you do a meet and greet you didn't how you do a meet and greet you didn't how you do a meet and greet you didn't know what the hell you're doing is great know what the hell you're doing is great know what the hell you're doing is great yeah like where am i how do i do this yeah like where am i how do i do this yeah like where am i how do i do this yeah i see yeah i see yeah i see what do i do it was actually really what do i do it was actually really what do i do it was actually really wholesome the beginning was um very wholesome the beginning was um very wholesome the beginning was um very silly because i was just not expecting silly because i was just not expecting silly because i was just not expecting that it was going to be more of a that it was going to be more of a that it was going to be more of a seminar i thought it was like oh you seminar i thought it was like oh you seminar i thought it was like oh you pose and take pictures but they actually pose and take pictures but they actually pose and take pictures but they actually asked really nice meaningful questions asked really nice meaningful questions asked really nice meaningful questions but unfortunately it's bad for youtube but unfortunately it's bad for youtube but unfortunately it's bad for youtube retention and we cut them all out so retention and we cut them all out so retention and we cut them all out so bad for you bad for you bad for you the good long-form conversation so it the good long-form conversation so it the good long-form conversation so it was like questions q a type of thing was like questions q a type of thing was like questions q a type of thing exactly you have to have very fast pace exactly you have to have very fast pace exactly you have to have very fast pace for youtube and um that seminar was not for youtube and um that seminar was not for youtube and um that seminar was not fast-paced okay well not everything in fast-paced okay well not everything in fast-paced okay well not everything in life needs to be on youtube right life needs to be on youtube right life needs to be on youtube right there's like two parallel things stuff there's like two parallel things stuff there's like two parallel things stuff that's fun for youtube yes and one day that's fun for youtube yes and one day that's fun for youtube yes and one day we'll post that q a one yeah when you we'll post that q a one yeah when you we'll post that q a one yeah when you guys like when you become like ultra guys like when you become like ultra guys like when you become like ultra famous you're currently just regular famous you're currently just regular famous you're currently just regular famous famous famous q and a slow q and a slow q and a slow content yes content yes content yes and that the youtube aspect the creation and that the youtube aspect the creation and that the youtube aspect the creation aspect does that add to the fun aspect does that add to the fun aspect does that add to the fun ultimately how's the chess of like your ultimately how's the chess of like your ultimately how's the chess of like your love of chess oh for the love of chess love of chess oh for the love of chess love of chess oh for the love of chess in general or just for competing in that in general or just for competing in that in general or just for competing in that one tournament no love with just in one tournament no love with just in one tournament no love with just in general i i think you said that for general i i think you said that for general i i think you said that for competing for that tournament was adding competing for that tournament was adding competing for that tournament was adding pressure yeah but actually i would say pressure yeah but actually i would say pressure yeah but actually i would say like a good pressure but yeah this is like a good pressure but yeah this is like a good pressure but yeah this is where i differed to alex because where i differed to alex because where i differed to alex because um when i was just competitive and i was um when i was just competitive and i was um when i was just competitive and i was younger younger younger i don't think i loved chess as much as i don't think i loved chess as much as i don't think i loved chess as much as when i started doing it for content when i started doing it for content when i started doing it for content because unlike her a lot of her friends because unlike her a lot of her friends because unlike her a lot of her friends and social circle

and social circle and social circle other chess players i never really other chess players i never really other chess players i never really traveled and built really solid traveled and built really solid traveled and built really solid friendships through chess until i friendships through chess until i friendships through chess until i started streaming and meeting other started streaming and meeting other started streaming and meeting other chess streamers and chess streamers and chess streamers and actually playing and talking to people actually playing and talking to people actually playing and talking to people for fun rather than just always being for fun rather than just always being for fun rather than just always being alone in the game and never really alone in the game and never really alone in the game and never really meeting other people my age or people meeting other people my age or people meeting other people my age or people with similar interests so i would say with similar interests so i would say with similar interests so i would say twitch was the thing that twitch was the thing that twitch was the thing that really changed how i approached the game really changed how i approached the game really changed how i approached the game i think with uh with some youtubers i think with uh with some youtubers i think with uh with some youtubers there's a pressure to be almost somebody there's a pressure to be almost somebody there's a pressure to be almost somebody else you create a persona and you're else you create a persona and you're else you create a persona and you're stuck in that persona i think stuck in that persona i think stuck in that persona i think um i'm um i'm um i'm too i'm too much of a boomer to know too i'm too much of a boomer to know too i'm too much of a boomer to know what the hell twitch is anyway but the what the hell twitch is anyway but the what the hell twitch is anyway but the it feels like when you're actually live it feels like when you're actually live it feels like when you're actually live streaming streaming streaming you can't help but be who you really are you can't help but be who you really are you can't help but be who you really are i think it's oh well i think when you're i think it's oh well i think when you're i think it's oh well i think when you're live streaming and i've talked to a lot live streaming and i've talked to a lot live streaming and i've talked to a lot of other streamers about this of other streamers about this of other streamers about this you kind of just over exaggerate one you kind of just over exaggerate one you kind of just over exaggerate one side of your personality and of course side of your personality and of course side of your personality and of course it's kind of like being like on all the it's kind of like being like on all the it's kind of like being like on all the time like you're trying to be more time like you're trying to be more time like you're trying to be more entertaining and sometimes you're being entertaining and sometimes you're being entertaining and sometimes you're being sillier at moments or sillier at moments or sillier at moments or more more more you take what character traits like you take what character traits like you take what character traits like people know you for and for me one is people know you for and for me one is people know you for and for me one is being like adhd and the younger sibling being like adhd and the younger sibling being like adhd and the younger sibling who's very energetic and causes trouble who's very energetic and causes trouble who's very energetic and causes trouble even though yeah i'm sure you caused even though yeah i'm sure you caused even though yeah i'm sure you caused trouble just for the camera yeah right trouble just for the camera yeah right trouble just for the camera yeah right i think yeah i think i think yeah i think i think yeah i think and of course once you're live streaming and of course once you're live streaming and of course once you're live streaming for like four or five hours there's for like four or five hours there's for like four or five hours there's gonna be moments in the stream where gonna be moments in the stream where gonna be moments in the stream where it's more chill but especially when it's more chill but especially when it's more chill but especially when you're like editing that content or you're like editing that content or you're like editing that content or you're doing bigger streams that are you're doing bigger streams that are you're doing bigger streams that are shorter shorter shorter you are kind of playing up a side of you are kind of playing up a side of you are kind of playing up a side of yourself because of course there's a lot yourself because of course there's a lot yourself because of course there's a lot of parts of me that i don't show to the

of parts of me that i don't show to the of parts of me that i don't show to the camera because they're not as camera because they're not as camera because they're not as entertaining to watch like the more entertaining to watch like the more entertaining to watch like the more serious part and also there's things serious part and also there's things serious part and also there's things that you are really interested in about that you are really interested in about that you are really interested in about what you do like i love competitive what you do like i love competitive what you do like i love competitive chess where i could sit and really think chess where i could sit and really think chess where i could sit and really think about it but i know that that is not about it but i know that that is not about it but i know that that is not going to be as entertaining for stream i going to be as entertaining for stream i going to be as entertaining for stream i know that's not going to be as know that's not going to be as know that's not going to be as entertaining for youtube so you kind of entertaining for youtube so you kind of entertaining for youtube so you kind of have to take what you like but then have to take what you like but then have to take what you like but then really adapt it for whatever the format really adapt it for whatever the format really adapt it for whatever the format is and sometimes that feels inauthentic is and sometimes that feels inauthentic is and sometimes that feels inauthentic uh but other times it just feels like uh but other times it just feels like uh but other times it just feels like repackaging what you love for people repackaging what you love for people repackaging what you love for people in a more general audience to enjoy do in a more general audience to enjoy do in a more general audience to enjoy do you feel like it's a trap a little bit you feel like it's a trap a little bit you feel like it's a trap a little bit as you evolve like uh as you evolve like uh as you evolve like uh oh i think social media oh sorry go oh i think social media oh sorry go oh i think social media oh sorry go ahead social media in general is a trap ahead social media in general is a trap ahead social media in general is a trap of that of that kind of that of that kind of that of that kind well so we've been trying to switch to well so we've been trying to switch to well so we've been trying to switch to learn how to make youtube videos learn how to make youtube videos learn how to make youtube videos recently and so much of learning youtube recently and so much of learning youtube recently and so much of learning youtube school is kind of the beastification of school is kind of the beastification of school is kind of the beastification of content where you try to get to the content where you try to get to the content where you try to get to the point of the video within like the first point of the video within like the first point of the video within like the first 10 seconds to not lose people you try to 10 seconds to not lose people you try to 10 seconds to not lose people you try to take it you mean like mr beast yeah okay take it you mean like mr beast yeah okay take it you mean like mr beast yeah okay yeah where it's so fast-paced there's a yeah where it's so fast-paced there's a yeah where it's so fast-paced there's a reason to wait there's high stakes reason to wait there's high stakes reason to wait there's high stakes and everything is created to keep people and everything is created to keep people and everything is created to keep people watching the video and keep people on watching the video and keep people on watching the video and keep people on the platform and in some ways it is a the platform and in some ways it is a the platform and in some ways it is a trap because it's harder to do trap because it's harder to do trap because it's harder to do the kind of content you like because you the kind of content you like because you the kind of content you like because you really have to squeeze it to be like really have to squeeze it to be like really have to squeeze it to be like okay well okay well okay well do we have a good thumbnail for this do do we have a good thumbnail for this do do we have a good thumbnail for this do we have a good title for this um and we have a good title for this um and we have a good title for this um and that's something that we're trying to that's something that we're trying to that's something that we're trying to figure out how figure out how figure out how to to to keep true to what we want to do yeah see

keep true to what we want to do yeah see keep true to what we want to do yeah see the way i think about it is yeah there's the way i think about it is yeah there's the way i think about it is yeah there's a lot of stuff you can create and yeah a lot of stuff you can create and yeah a lot of stuff you can create and yeah the mr bestification process the mr bestification process the mr bestification process but also but also but also i think about what are the videos i think about what are the videos i think about what are the videos conversations or things i will create in conversations or things i will create in conversations or things i will create in this life this life this life that will be that will be that will be the best thing i do the best thing i do the best thing i do and um i try not to do things and um i try not to do things and um i try not to do things in my life that will prevent me from in my life that will prevent me from in my life that will prevent me from getting there i feel like if you're getting there i feel like if you're getting there i feel like if you're always focusing on um always focusing on um always focusing on um doing kind of the optimizing the doing kind of the optimizing the doing kind of the optimizing the thumbnail in the 10 seconds and so on thumbnail in the 10 seconds and so on thumbnail in the 10 seconds and so on you'll never do the thing that's truly you'll never do the thing that's truly you'll never do the thing that's truly you're known for and remembered for so you're known for and remembered for so you're known for and remembered for so finding that balance is tricky i get finding that balance is tricky i get finding that balance is tricky i get that but at the same time this might be that but at the same time this might be that but at the same time this might be my own copium which i know is a word you my own copium which i know is a word you my own copium which i know is a word you know now know now know now yeah i'm slowly learning the complexity yeah i'm slowly learning the complexity yeah i'm slowly learning the complexity of the term yes um but of the term yes um but of the term yes um but the other way i think about it is the other way i think about it is the other way i think about it is it is the skill to learn how to it is the skill to learn how to it is the skill to learn how to communicate with large audiences communicate with large audiences communicate with large audiences and and and first i started streaming chess which is first i started streaming chess which is first i started streaming chess which is something i just did and really loved something i just did and really loved something i just did and really loved but now i have to learn how to translate but now i have to learn how to translate but now i have to learn how to translate that format and if that's a skill set we that format and if that's a skill set we that format and if that's a skill set we could build then we could use it to do could build then we could use it to do could build then we could use it to do really important things really important things really important things and i've seen a lot of youtubers who and i've seen a lot of youtubers who and i've seen a lot of youtubers who have done interviews about how you know have done interviews about how you know have done interviews about how you know they didn't love the kind of content they didn't love the kind of content they didn't love the kind of content they did at at first but what they're they did at at first but what they're they did at at first but what they're doing right now is really meaningful so doing right now is really meaningful so doing right now is really meaningful so i like to think of it maybe like skill i like to think of it maybe like skill i like to think of it maybe like skill development because not everybody hits development because not everybody hits development because not everybody hits off podcasts where they can talk to off podcasts where they can talk to off podcasts where they can talk to super interesting people right off the super interesting people right off the super interesting people right off the bat yeah you can be slow and boring in a

bat yeah you can be slow and boring in a bat yeah you can be slow and boring in a podcast you don't have to worry about podcast you don't have to worry about podcast you don't have to worry about the first 10 seconds i mean people like the first 10 seconds i mean people like the first 10 seconds i mean people like keep pushing me for because but the keep pushing me for because but the keep pushing me for because but the first 10 seconds of the videos first 10 seconds of the videos first 10 seconds of the videos i do is well i know it's most important i do is well i know it's most important i do is well i know it's most important for youtube but i don't give a damn i for youtube but i don't give a damn i for youtube but i don't give a damn i wrote a chrome extension that hides all wrote a chrome extension that hides all wrote a chrome extension that hides all the views and likes i don't look at the the views and likes i don't look at the the views and likes i don't look at the the the click i don't look at twitch the the click i don't look at twitch the the click i don't look at twitch views andrea does so we also can relate views andrea does so we also can relate views andrea does so we also can relate i love numbers too but that's why i i love numbers too but that's why i i love numbers too but that's why i don't look at it because you become like don't look at it because you become like don't look at it because you become like oh i oh i oh i you'll start to think that a you'll start to think that a you'll start to think that a conversation or a thing you did sucks conversation or a thing you did sucks conversation or a thing you did sucks because it doesn't get views yeah but because it doesn't get views yeah but because it doesn't get views yeah but that's just not the case that's just not the case that's just not the case the youtube algorithm is this monster the youtube algorithm is this monster the youtube algorithm is this monster that figures stuff out and if you let it that figures stuff out and if you let it that figures stuff out and if you let it control your mind i feel like it's going control your mind i feel like it's going control your mind i feel like it's going to destroy you creatively so you have to to destroy you creatively so you have to to destroy you creatively so you have to find a nice balance i have to say i was find a nice balance i have to say i was find a nice balance i have to say i was laughing a little bit when i was laughing a little bit when i was laughing a little bit when i was listening to the magnus episode and the listening to the magnus episode and the listening to the magnus episode and the first 10 minutes you guys are talking first 10 minutes you guys are talking first 10 minutes you guys are talking about soccer football two robots seem about soccer football two robots seem about soccer football two robots seem like humans yeah i was like let's have some fun a i was like let's have some fun a conversation about non-chess related conversation about non-chess related conversation about non-chess related topics yeah talk about sports yeah it topics yeah talk about sports yeah it topics yeah talk about sports yeah it was kind of hilarious i was surprised was kind of hilarious i was surprised was kind of hilarious i was surprised that that that uh even at his level uh even at his level uh even at his level i wasn't sure but i was surprised how i wasn't sure but i was surprised how i wasn't sure but i was surprised how much he loves chess it sounds cliche to much he loves chess it sounds cliche to much he loves chess it sounds cliche to say but like the way he looked at a say but like the way he looked at a say but like the way he looked at a chess board you know those memes like i chess board you know those memes like i chess board you know those memes like i wish somebody looked at me in the way wish somebody looked at me in the way wish somebody looked at me in the way he's still like the way he glanced down he's still like the way he glanced down he's still like the way he glanced down and he reached for the pieces with and he reached for the pieces with and he reached for the pieces with excitement to show me something there excitement to show me something there excitement to show me something there was there wasn't like was there wasn't like was there wasn't like uh okay i'll show you it was like

uh okay i'll show you it was like uh okay i'll show you it was like like there was still that fire like there was still that fire like there was still that fire that's something that always shocks me that's something that always shocks me that's something that always shocks me about some of like super grand masters about some of like super grand masters about some of like super grand masters like one of my coaches was a person who like one of my coaches was a person who like one of my coaches was a person who also his name's jim hammer of norway he also his name's jim hammer of norway he also his name's jim hammer of norway he also coached also coached also coached magnus he was his second and he was magnus he was his second and he was magnus he was his second and he was helping me train for my tournament and i helping me train for my tournament and i helping me train for my tournament and i was kind of putting off doing the was kind of putting off doing the was kind of putting off doing the homework he's like if you're putting it homework he's like if you're putting it homework he's like if you're putting it off that means you're studying the wrong off that means you're studying the wrong off that means you're studying the wrong thing like you should be enjoying even thing like you should be enjoying even thing like you should be enjoying even when you're practicing which when i grew when you're practicing which when i grew when you're practicing which when i grew up i thought to get to the top level up i thought to get to the top level up i thought to get to the top level like practicing has to be hard and like practicing has to be hard and like practicing has to be hard and unpleasant and when i was listening to unpleasant and when i was listening to unpleasant and when i was listening to magnus episode he was like i didn't read magnus episode he was like i didn't read magnus episode he was like i didn't read books very much or it there's one thing books very much or it there's one thing books very much or it there's one thing that you said that's like very normal that you said that's like very normal that you said that's like very normal for studying classical chess that he for studying classical chess that he for studying classical chess that he didn't do just because it didn't didn't do just because it didn't didn't do just because it didn't interest him he says i suck at puzzles i interest him he says i suck at puzzles i interest him he says i suck at puzzles i don't like puzzles yeah and he doesn't don't like puzzles yeah and he doesn't don't like puzzles yeah and he doesn't do what he doesn't enjoy and that's do what he doesn't enjoy and that's do what he doesn't enjoy and that's because it's like purely driven out of because it's like purely driven out of because it's like purely driven out of passion i think the internet was like i passion i think the internet was like i passion i think the internet was like i suck at puzzles too yeah they like that i don't have to study at all it's just i don't have to study at all it's just it's fun and uh but i think the lesson it's fun and uh but i think the lesson it's fun and uh but i think the lesson there that's really powerful is he there that's really powerful is he there that's really powerful is he spends most of the day thinking about spends most of the day thinking about spends most of the day thinking about chess because he wants to yeah so do chess because he wants to yeah so do chess because he wants to yeah so do whatever if you're into getting better whatever if you're into getting better whatever if you're into getting better chess to whatever it takes chess to whatever it takes chess to whatever it takes to actually just the number of hours you to actually just the number of hours you to actually just the number of hours you spend a day thinking about chess spend a day thinking about chess spend a day thinking about chess maximize that if you're like super maximize that if you're like super maximize that if you're like super serious about it i actually get very serious about it i actually get very serious about it i actually get very addicted whenever i start studying chess addicted whenever i start studying chess addicted whenever i start studying chess which is why i don't do it as seriously which is why i don't do it as seriously which is why i don't do it as seriously when i'm focused on content uh because i when i'm focused on content uh because i when i'm focused on content uh because i go through these rabbit holes where if go through these rabbit holes where if go through these rabbit holes where if i'm focusing on chess i want to be as i'm focusing on chess i want to be as i'm focusing on chess i want to be as good as i possibly can at the game

good as i possibly can at the game good as i possibly can at the game otherwise it's hard for me to enjoy it otherwise it's hard for me to enjoy it otherwise it's hard for me to enjoy it because it's such a competitive thing because it's such a competitive thing because it's such a competitive thing and i remember training for tournaments and i remember training for tournaments and i remember training for tournaments and when you're training for tournaments and when you're training for tournaments and when you're training for tournaments you even start dreaming about chess and you even start dreaming about chess and you even start dreaming about chess and you can't stop thinking about it and you can't stop thinking about it and you can't stop thinking about it and it's as if you're flipped into this it's as if you're flipped into this it's as if you're flipped into this completely different world which is also completely different world which is also completely different world which is also what i like best about the game that what i like best about the game that what i like best about the game that it's a completely different living it's a completely different living it's a completely different living experience and then you take some drugs experience and then you take some drugs experience and then you take some drugs and now you start to see things on the and now you start to see things on the and now you start to see things on the ceiling is there some factual um ceiling is there some factual um ceiling is there some factual um hallucination like hallucination like hallucination like uh to the uh queen's gambit like those uh to the uh queen's gambit like those uh to the uh queen's gambit like those scenes uh i think it's is that based on scenes uh i think it's is that based on scenes uh i think it's is that based on your life story from well i can't say your life story from well i can't say your life story from well i can't say that on camera no just kidding um that on camera no just kidding um that on camera no just kidding um actually chess players are very careful actually chess players are very careful actually chess players are very careful to not take drugs they drink a lot yeah to not take drugs they drink a lot yeah to not take drugs they drink a lot yeah they drink so much it's actually crazy they drink so much it's actually crazy they drink so much it's actually crazy for how good they're able to play chess for how good they're able to play chess for how good they're able to play chess when they do when they do when they do but when it comes to things like but when it comes to things like but when it comes to things like psychedelics or other things they psychedelics or other things they psychedelics or other things they usually stay away from those because usually stay away from those because usually stay away from those because they don't want to mess anything up in they don't want to mess anything up in they don't want to mess anything up in their brain so this is actually an their brain so this is actually an their brain so this is actually an intervention i've i saw that you intervention i've i saw that you intervention i've i saw that you mentioned somewhere i think was the lie mentioned somewhere i think was the lie mentioned somewhere i think was the lie detector test where you have a drinking detector test where you have a drinking detector test where you have a drinking problem problem problem is that actual i think i think that's is that actual i think i think that's is that actual i think i think that's actually um a meme that we like to joke actually um a meme that we like to joke actually um a meme that we like to joke about on stream because occasionally about on stream because occasionally about on stream because occasionally we'd have like a white claw on stream or we'd have like a white claw on stream or we'd have like a white claw on stream or something like that and then people meme something like that and then people meme something like that and then people meme about it it goes back to andrea's point about it it goes back to andrea's point about it it goes back to andrea's point of amplifying a part of your personality of amplifying a part of your personality of amplifying a part of your personality to make yourself a little bit right more to make yourself a little bit right more to make yourself a little bit right more entertaining you could use that as an entertaining you could use that as an entertaining you could use that as an excuse from now on i'm just this podcast excuse from now on i'm just this podcast excuse from now on i'm just this podcast is just amplifying a part of that person is just amplifying a part of that person is just amplifying a part of that person now i'm not really like this now i'm not really like this now i'm not really like this uh but have you played drunk like magnus

uh but have you played drunk like magnus uh but have you played drunk like magnus has played drunk he says it helps him has played drunk he says it helps him has played drunk he says it helps him with the creativity is there any truth with the creativity is there any truth with the creativity is there any truth to that well andrea is under 21 so she's to that well andrea is under 21 so she's to that well andrea is under 21 so she's obviously would never do it never do obviously would never do it never do obviously would never do it never do that um but i have played while drinking that um but i have played while drinking that um but i have played while drinking actually actually actually i enjoy playing jess chess and drinking i enjoy playing jess chess and drinking i enjoy playing jess chess and drinking more than pre-gaming or going out to a more than pre-gaming or going out to a more than pre-gaming or going out to a club and drinking which sounds really club and drinking which sounds really club and drinking which sounds really silly and i'll usually play against silly and i'll usually play against silly and i'll usually play against opponents who are also you know having opponents who are also you know having opponents who are also you know having some beer some beer some beer and and and it does make you feel like you're seeing it does make you feel like you're seeing it does make you feel like you're seeing the game from a fresher perspective the game from a fresher perspective the game from a fresher perspective where it where it where it can sometimes make you feel more can sometimes make you feel more can sometimes make you feel more confident liquid confidence and it does confident liquid confidence and it does confident liquid confidence and it does help with creativity you just feel like help with creativity you just feel like help with creativity you just feel like you could pull things off um but there's you could pull things off um but there's you could pull things off um but there's also a limit it's more like you've had also a limit it's more like you've had also a limit it's more like you've had one drink or two drink but then it goes one drink or two drink but then it goes one drink or two drink but then it goes beyond that and then you just start beyond that and then you just start beyond that and then you just start missing tactics and it's not worth it missing tactics and it's not worth it missing tactics and it's not worth it yeah i think it only helps players in yeah i think it only helps players in yeah i think it only helps players in very short time controls one time i was very short time controls one time i was very short time controls one time i was challenging this grandmaster on stream challenging this grandmaster on stream challenging this grandmaster on stream and we were playing bullet chess which and we were playing bullet chess which and we were playing bullet chess which is one minute chess and i was giving him is one minute chess and i was giving him is one minute chess and i was giving him handicaps and i said okay you have to handicaps and i said okay you have to handicaps and i said okay you have to take four shots before the next game and take four shots before the next game and take four shots before the next game and he just got like 10 times stronger and he just got like 10 times stronger and he just got like 10 times stronger and transformed into like the hulk and transformed into like the hulk and transformed into like the hulk and destroyed me more than the last game so destroyed me more than the last game so destroyed me more than the last game so but of course if you're playing like a but of course if you're playing like a but of course if you're playing like a three-hour game it's gonna get old but i three-hour game it's gonna get old but i three-hour game it's gonna get old but i think in short time controls it's think in short time controls it's think in short time controls it's amazing yeah it does definitely has to amazing yeah it does definitely has to amazing yeah it does definitely has to be blitz it has to be where it's more be blitz it has to be where it's more be blitz it has to be where it's more intuition rather than sitting in intuition rather than sitting in intuition rather than sitting in calculus this is probably like calculus this is probably like calculus this is probably like negatively affecting your ability to negatively affecting your ability to negatively affecting your ability to calculate absolutely calculate absolutely calculate absolutely how much when you guys play when you how much when you guys play when you how much when you guys play when you look at the chess board how much of it look at the chess board how much of it look at the chess board how much of it is calculation how much of it is is calculation how much of it is is calculation how much of it is intuition how much of it is memorized intuition how much of it is memorized intuition how much of it is memorized openings

openings openings um um um it really depends between short form it really depends between short form it really depends between short form chess so five minutes three minutes one chess so five minutes three minutes one chess so five minutes three minutes one minute and classical chess what's your minute and classical chess what's your minute and classical chess what's your favorite to play i love playing blitz favorite to play i love playing blitz favorite to play i love playing blitz now because that's most of what i do and now because that's most of what i do and now because that's most of what i do and that's actually how i got into chess that's actually how i got into chess that's actually how i got into chess streaming because i couldn't spend streaming because i couldn't spend streaming because i couldn't spend entire weekends or weeks playing entire weekends or weeks playing entire weekends or weeks playing tournaments i would just while i was in tournaments i would just while i was in tournaments i would just while i was in college log on and play these long blitz college log on and play these long blitz college log on and play these long blitz or bullet sessions and it's very fast so or bullet sessions and it's very fast so or bullet sessions and it's very fast so you don't have time to go you don't have time to go you don't have time to go calculate as deeply you basically have calculate as deeply you basically have calculate as deeply you basically have to calculate short lines pretty quickly to calculate short lines pretty quickly to calculate short lines pretty quickly and a lot of it is pattern recognition and a lot of it is pattern recognition and a lot of it is pattern recognition and intuition um that's three minutes and intuition um that's three minutes and intuition um that's three minutes you said three minutes yeah okay cool you said three minutes yeah okay cool you said three minutes yeah okay cool and so for that it's just it's basically and so for that it's just it's basically and so for that it's just it's basically intuition a lot of it is intuition yeah intuition a lot of it is intuition yeah intuition a lot of it is intuition yeah see i saw on the streams you actually see i saw on the streams you actually see i saw on the streams you actually keep talking while playing chess it keep talking while playing chess it keep talking while playing chess it seems like yeah that's my result that seems like yeah that's my result that seems like yeah that's my result that doesn't help my results it doesn't help doesn't help my results it doesn't help doesn't help my results it doesn't help the content not the game yeah exactly the content not the game yeah exactly the content not the game yeah exactly but you can still do it because i i it but you can still do it because i i it but you can still do it because i i it feels like how can you possibly feels like how can you possibly feels like how can you possibly concentrate while talking it's because concentrate while talking it's because concentrate while talking it's because so much of it is intuition you're not so much of it is intuition you're not so much of it is intuition you're not while you're talking you're thinking while you're talking you're thinking while you're talking you're thinking about that topic but then you just come about that topic but then you just come about that topic but then you just come to the board and you just understand to the board and you just understand to the board and you just understand what you should be doing here and then what you should be doing here and then what you should be doing here and then sometimes you get in trouble because sometimes you get in trouble because sometimes you get in trouble because you're talking and you have now lost you're talking and you have now lost you're talking and you have now lost half of your time you have a minute and half of your time you have a minute and half of your time you have a minute and a half your opponent has three and a half your opponent has three and a half your opponent has three and you're kind of at a disadvantage um you're kind of at a disadvantage um you're kind of at a disadvantage um but that kind of goes to show that but that kind of goes to show that but that kind of goes to show that that's how blitz chess usually works that's how blitz chess usually works that's how blitz chess usually works whereas classical is very different whereas classical is very different whereas classical is very different which of you is better at chess i mean which of you is better at chess i mean which of you is better at chess i mean let's do it this way can you let's do it this way can you let's do it this way can you um andrea can you say um andrea can you say um andrea can you say what is what is what is in which way is alex stronger than you in which way is alex stronger than you in which way is alex stronger than you which way is she weaker than you not

which way is she weaker than you not which way is she weaker than you not physically in in terms of the ch in physically in in terms of the ch in physically in in terms of the ch in terms of chess terms of chess terms of chess um um um well yes of course she is higher rated well yes of course she is higher rated well yes of course she is higher rated but when we do play but when we do play but when we do play um i think her strengths against me um i think her strengths against me um i think her strengths against me where she really gets me is the end game where she really gets me is the end game where she really gets me is the end game she has stronger end games so she can she has stronger end games so she can she has stronger end games so she can and i actually have a stronger opening and i actually have a stronger opening and i actually have a stronger opening um but as soon as she's i'm supposed to um but as soon as she's i'm supposed to um but as soon as she's i'm supposed to say what is good about you not you say what is good about you not you say what is good about you not you yeah i'm getting there well see this is yeah i'm getting there well see this is yeah i'm getting there well see this is the same because don't worry it's the same because don't worry it's the same because don't worry it's related okay because if i can i can get related okay because if i can i can get related okay because if i can i can get an advantage in the beginning of the an advantage in the beginning of the an advantage in the beginning of the game but as soon as she starts trading game but as soon as she starts trading game but as soon as she starts trading pieces down like my confidence drops pieces down like my confidence drops pieces down like my confidence drops because i know that the end game is the because i know that the end game is the because i know that the end game is the hardest part of the game and the longest hardest part of the game and the longest hardest part of the game and the longest and that's where she ends up beating me and that's where she ends up beating me and that's where she ends up beating me so her end game is her so her end game is her so her end game is her i think really what makes a difference i think really what makes a difference i think really what makes a difference and she sounds like her and she sounds like her and she sounds like her psychological warfare is better too psychological warfare is better too psychological warfare is better too because if you're getting nervous that because if you're getting nervous that because if you're getting nervous that is that but it's harder to play against is that but it's harder to play against is that but it's harder to play against higher rated players same how you know higher rated players same how you know higher rated players same how you know magnus and former world championship magnus and former world championship magnus and former world championship champions have that psychological edge champions have that psychological edge champions have that psychological edge so i think it's always going to be so i think it's always going to be so i think it's always going to be different for andrea because she knows different for andrea because she knows different for andrea because she knows statistically she should be winning statistically she should be winning statistically she should be winning something like one in four games but she something like one in four games but she something like one in four games but she usually does better than that because usually does better than that because usually does better than that because she's very distracting and talks a lot she's very distracting and talks a lot she's very distracting and talks a lot that does help what does it feel like to that does help what does it feel like to that does help what does it feel like to play a higher rated player play a higher rated player play a higher rated player what's the experience of that what's the experience of that what's the experience of that in like uh in like uh in like uh playing somebody like magnus playing somebody like magnus playing somebody like magnus so it depends on how much higher rated so it depends on how much higher rated so it depends on how much higher rated than you they are if it's someone who's than you they are if it's someone who's than you they are if it's someone who's like between me and andrea let's say like between me and andrea let's say like between me and andrea let's say it's a 200 point difference it's a 200 point difference it's a 200 point difference you know they should win but at least you know they should win but at least you know they should win but at least you still feel like you have a chance i you still feel like you have a chance i you still feel like you have a chance i was playing in uh title tuesday which is

was playing in uh title tuesday which is was playing in uh title tuesday which is this tournament chess.com has every this tournament chess.com has every this tournament chess.com has every tuesday and i got really lucky beat a gm tuesday and i got really lucky beat a gm tuesday and i got really lucky beat a gm drew an international master and then i drew an international master and then i drew an international master and then i got paired against hikaru nakamura and got paired against hikaru nakamura and got paired against hikaru nakamura and my brain just went blank because the i my brain just went blank because the i my brain just went blank because the i just know that i'm so unlikely to win just know that i'm so unlikely to win just know that i'm so unlikely to win that i couldn't even play the game that i couldn't even play the game that i couldn't even play the game properly when it's that much of a properly when it's that much of a properly when it's that much of a difference where they should be winning difference where they should be winning difference where they should be winning like 99 of the time like 99 of the time like 99 of the time but that's like psychological so you're but that's like psychological so you're but that's like psychological so you're saying that's the biggest experience saying that's the biggest experience saying that's the biggest experience it's like it's like it's like actually knowing the numbers and actually knowing the numbers and actually knowing the numbers and statistically thinking there's no way i statistically thinking there's no way i statistically thinking there's no way i can win but i meant like is there a can win but i meant like is there a can win but i meant like is there a suffocating feeling like positionally suffocating feeling like positionally suffocating feeling like positionally you feel like you're constantly you feel like you're constantly you feel like you're constantly under attack under attack under attack you just feel like you're slowly getting you just feel like you're slowly getting you just feel like you're slowly getting outsmarted and the worst is when you outsmarted and the worst is when you outsmarted and the worst is when you don't even know what you're doing wrong don't even know what you're doing wrong don't even know what you're doing wrong you come out of that you're like you come out of that you're like you come out of that you're like i thought i was doing great and i got i thought i was doing great and i got i thought i was doing great and i got slowly squeezed i didn't understand what slowly squeezed i didn't understand what slowly squeezed i didn't understand what was going on and you're just kind of was going on and you're just kind of was going on and you're just kind of baffled it's kind of like watching alpha baffled it's kind of like watching alpha baffled it's kind of like watching alpha zero beat up stock fish and you don't zero beat up stock fish and you don't zero beat up stock fish and you don't really understand why it's making really understand why it's making really understand why it's making certain moves or how it thought of the certain moves or how it thought of the certain moves or how it thought of the plan you just see it slowly getting the plan you just see it slowly getting the plan you just see it slowly getting the position better and that's what it feels position better and that's what it feels position better and that's what it feels like i i would add like i i would add like i i would add it's kind of different for me if they're it's kind of different for me if they're it's kind of different for me if they're someone who's significantly higher rated someone who's significantly higher rated someone who's significantly higher rated so let's say more than like 300 points so let's say more than like 300 points so let's say more than like 300 points or you're playing magnus or you're playing magnus or you're playing magnus what i notice is i just feel lost what i notice is i just feel lost what i notice is i just feel lost straight as soon as i don't know my straight as soon as i don't know my straight as soon as i don't know my preparation because they know so many preparation because they know so many preparation because they know so many opening lines that they're going to know opening lines that they're going to know opening lines that they're going to know the best line to beat you that you the best line to beat you that you the best line to beat you that you haven't studied so then on move 10 haven't studied so then on move 10 haven't studied so then on move 10 you're like he already has a maybe plus you're like he already has a maybe plus you're like he already has a maybe plus .5 advantage which is really small but .5 advantage which is really small but .5 advantage which is really small but for someone with such a significant for someone with such a significant for someone with such a significant skill level you know you already lost at

skill level you know you already lost at skill level you know you already lost at that point and it's like a third of the that point and it's like a third of the that point and it's like a third of the game game game what are the strengths and weaknesses of what are the strengths and weaknesses of what are the strengths and weaknesses of andrea andrea andrea andrea is very good at opening andrea is very good at opening andrea is very good at opening preparations as she said as she said she preparations as she said as she said she preparations as she said as she said she likes bringing that up i mean she's very likes bringing that up i mean she's very likes bringing that up i mean she's very meticulous about it where she'll really meticulous about it where she'll really meticulous about it where she'll really go in and learn her lines go in and learn her lines go in and learn her lines and having that initial starting and having that initial starting and having that initial starting confidence isn't just helpful for the confidence isn't just helpful for the confidence isn't just helpful for the opening but it helps develop your plans opening but it helps develop your plans opening but it helps develop your plans for the middle game so i think she's for the middle game so i think she's for the middle game so i think she's very good at that very good at that very good at that um i think she's actually pretty good at um i think she's actually pretty good at um i think she's actually pretty good at tactical tactical tactical combinations um what is tactics tactics combinations um what is tactics tactics combinations um what is tactics tactics is like solving puzzles is like solving puzzles is like solving puzzles um or basically finding lines that are um or basically finding lines that are um or basically finding lines that are forced where if you find them you're forced where if you find them you're forced where if you find them you're going to win going to win going to win so that's like puzzles within a with so that's like puzzles within a with so that's like puzzles within a with yeah exactly whereas strategic chess is yeah exactly whereas strategic chess is yeah exactly whereas strategic chess is making slow moves and over the process making slow moves and over the process making slow moves and over the process of like 20 moves you get a slightly of like 20 moves you get a slightly of like 20 moves you get a slightly better position based on better position based on better position based on an understanding of the overall strategy an understanding of the overall strategy an understanding of the overall strategy so in my extensive research review on so in my extensive research review on so in my extensive research review on wikipedia wikipedia wikipedia it says your most played opening is the it says your most played opening is the it says your most played opening is the king's indian defense king's indian defense king's indian defense in which quote black allows white to in which quote black allows white to in which quote black allows white to advance their pawns to the center of the advance their pawns to the center of the advance their pawns to the center of the board board board in the first two moves i is there any in the first two moves i is there any in the first two moves i is there any truth to this truth to this truth to this so so so the kings and what is it probably is my the kings and what is it probably is my the kings and what is it probably is my most played opening um most played opening um most played opening um and it's one where even when my coach and it's one where even when my coach and it's one where even when my coach who was a grandmaster taught me he's who was a grandmaster taught me he's who was a grandmaster taught me he's like so you know i've been playing the like so you know i've been playing the like so you know i've been playing the king's indian for 10 years and i still

king's indian for 10 years and i still king's indian for 10 years and i still don't understand it and it's one of don't understand it and it's one of don't understand it and it's one of those openings that computers really those openings that computers really those openings that computers really don't like because you do or at least don't like because you do or at least don't like because you do or at least stockfish doesn't like it maybe alpha stockfish doesn't like it maybe alpha stockfish doesn't like it maybe alpha zero would change their mind i forgot to zero would change their mind i forgot to zero would change their mind i forgot to look at what can you show me by the way look at what can you show me by the way look at what can you show me by the way what it is yeah what it is yeah what it is yeah is it uh is it uh is it uh is it white's opening or black something is it white's opening or black something is it white's opening or black something black responds to uh the d4 queen's pawn black responds to uh the d4 queen's pawn black responds to uh the d4 queen's pawn push and you take your knight out to f6 push and you take your knight out to f6 push and you take your knight out to f6 i'll just put in the you know i'll just put in the you know i'll just put in the you know stereotypical stereotypical stereotypical classical king's indian more so to say classical king's indian more so to say classical king's indian more so to say um um um so we actually have a very famous king's so we actually have a very famous king's so we actually have a very famous king's indian game in the notes that we indian game in the notes that we indian game in the notes that we prepared okay prepared okay prepared okay for the record i asked you guys for one for the record i asked you guys for one for the record i asked you guys for one some games that you find pretty cool and some games that you find pretty cool and some games that you find pretty cool and well maybe to get a chance to talk about well maybe to get a chance to talk about well maybe to get a chance to talk about something yeah um so this is the king's something yeah um so this is the king's something yeah um so this is the king's indian as you can see indian as you can see indian as you can see white has much more control over the white has much more control over the white has much more control over the center white has three pawns in the center white has three pawns in the center white has three pawns in the center while black has none past the center while black has none past the center while black has none past the fifth rank and you just have this pawn fifth rank and you just have this pawn fifth rank and you just have this pawn on d6 and one of the ideas in chess is on d6 and one of the ideas in chess is on d6 and one of the ideas in chess is if you're not taking the center then if you're not taking the center then if you're not taking the center then your plan revolves around trying to your plan revolves around trying to your plan revolves around trying to continually challenge it continually challenge it continually challenge it but what is really fun about the king's but what is really fun about the king's but what is really fun about the king's indian is that black sometimes gets indian is that black sometimes gets indian is that black sometimes gets these crazy king side attacks while these crazy king side attacks while these crazy king side attacks while white gets queen side attacks and even white gets queen side attacks and even white gets queen side attacks and even though though though it's a little bit suspicious for black it's a little bit suspicious for black it's a little bit suspicious for black and the computer could usually break it and the computer could usually break it and the computer could usually break it it's hard to defend as a human when it's hard to defend as a human when it's hard to defend as a human when you're being attacked but if you don't you're being attacked but if you don't you're being attacked but if you don't pull off the attack as black then you're pull off the attack as black then you're pull off the attack as black then you're just gonna end up being lost in the end

just gonna end up being lost in the end just gonna end up being lost in the end game so it's like a very asymmetrical game so it's like a very asymmetrical game so it's like a very asymmetrical position it's very asymmetrical although position it's very asymmetrical although position it's very asymmetrical although a lot of people now stop playing into a lot of people now stop playing into a lot of people now stop playing into the classical kings indian even though the classical kings indian even though the classical kings indian even though computers give it a big advantage and computers give it a big advantage and computers give it a big advantage and they play these slower lines in the they play these slower lines in the they play these slower lines in the king's indian which are less fun to play king's indian which are less fun to play king's indian which are less fun to play what's slower mean it takes a longer what's slower mean it takes a longer what's slower mean it takes a longer time to like time to like time to like do something interesting with um do something interesting with um do something interesting with um they basically don't let you get as much they basically don't let you get as much they basically don't let you get as much of a kingside attack because they try of a kingside attack because they try of a kingside attack because they try opening up the center and then you have opening up the center and then you have opening up the center and then you have no weaknesses but you're just slowly no weaknesses but you're just slowly no weaknesses but you're just slowly improving the position of your pieces improving the position of your pieces improving the position of your pieces instead of being able to go for that instead of being able to go for that instead of being able to go for that king side attack so for people just king side attack so for people just king side attack so for people just listening there is a the listening there is a the listening there is a the white pawns are all on the fourth row in white pawns are all on the fourth row in white pawns are all on the fourth row in a row together that feels like a bad a row together that feels like a bad a row together that feels like a bad position for black for white position for black for white position for black for white oh you don't like taking the center no i oh you don't like taking the center no i oh you don't like taking the center no i like taking the center so this is now like taking the center so this is now like taking the center so this is now you're talking trash around oh sorry but you're talking trash around oh sorry but you're talking trash around oh sorry but like like like they're just like they're like feel they're just like they're like feel they're just like they're like feel vulnerable they're in a row together vulnerable they're in a row together vulnerable they're in a row together like it's like uh like a you know like it's like uh like a you know like it's like uh like a you know because they're like who's gonna defend because they're like who's gonna defend because they're like who's gonna defend them i guess the nice defender when the them i guess the nice defender when the them i guess the nice defender when the queen defends it that you're actually queen defends it that you're actually queen defends it that you're actually talking about a theme that you do see talking about a theme that you do see talking about a theme that you do see sometimes which is called hanging pawns sometimes which is called hanging pawns sometimes which is called hanging pawns when you have two pawns right next to when you have two pawns right next to when you have two pawns right next to each other with no other pawns to defend each other with no other pawns to defend each other with no other pawns to defend them yeah um so it it is a value valid them yeah um so it it is a value valid them yeah um so it it is a value valid point and actually as black you're point and actually as black you're point and actually as black you're trying to break apart these pawns or get trying to break apart these pawns or get trying to break apart these pawns or get them to push and create some holes into them to push and create some holes into them to push and create some holes into the position the position the position but it's but it's but it's a trade-off and that's a lot of what a trade-off and that's a lot of what a trade-off and that's a lot of what chess openings are about chess openings are about chess openings are about you get more space but you'll also end you get more space but you'll also end you get more space but you'll also end up having to protect your pawns

up having to protect your pawns up having to protect your pawns potentially or move them forward to the potentially or move them forward to the potentially or move them forward to the point where they're overextended and point where they're overextended and point where they're overextended and plus pawns being vulnerable it's kind of plus pawns being vulnerable it's kind of plus pawns being vulnerable it's kind of fun this it's like there's more stuff in fun this it's like there's more stuff in fun this it's like there's more stuff in danger they're not because if it's if danger they're not because if it's if danger they're not because if it's if it's like this everything's like trapped it's like this everything's like trapped it's like this everything's like trapped like you can't do anything everything's like you can't do anything everything's like you can't do anything everything's blocked yeah blocked off yeah because blocked yeah blocked off yeah because blocked yeah blocked off yeah because you can't have fun yeah you can't have fun yeah you can't have fun yeah the the the the the the one of the most one of the opening one of the most one of the opening one of the most one of the opening principles for white is get your pawns principles for white is get your pawns principles for white is get your pawns in the center so i'd say in the center so i'd say in the center so i'd say like this is actually preferable for like this is actually preferable for like this is actually preferable for white go let's go over some opening white go let's go over some opening white go let's go over some opening principles there we go because this is a principles there we go because this is a principles there we go because this is a very good learning okay okay so first thing you want to do is okay so first thing you want to do is control the center control the center control the center there you go e4 the more aggressive one there you go e4 the more aggressive one there you go e4 the more aggressive one isn't that like the the basic vanilla isn't that like the the basic vanilla isn't that like the the basic vanilla move i didn't uh somebody told me that's move i didn't uh somebody told me that's move i didn't uh somebody told me that's the most popular the most popular the most popular opening move in chess it is why is that opening move in chess it is why is that opening move in chess it is why is that considered aggressive so the two it's e4 considered aggressive so the two it's e4 considered aggressive so the two it's e4 and d4 and the king's pawn is known as and d4 and the king's pawn is known as and d4 and the king's pawn is known as being for more tactical players whereas being for more tactical players whereas being for more tactical players whereas d4 is known for more positional players d4 is known for more positional players d4 is known for more positional players so that's why it's considered more so that's why it's considered more so that's why it's considered more aggressive aggressive aggressive gambits with e4 i think so tactical gambits with e4 i think so tactical gambits with e4 i think so tactical means means means i'm i'm gonna try to attack you i'm i'm gonna try to attack you i'm i'm gonna try to attack you you're gonna try to go for puzzles and you're gonna try to go for puzzles and you're gonna try to go for puzzles and rely more on your um rely more on your um rely more on your um combination abilities combination abilities combination abilities uh whereas if it's something positional uh whereas if it's something positional uh whereas if it's something positional you usually have like three to four you usually have like three to four you usually have like three to four moves that are all good in the position moves that are all good in the position moves that are all good in the position whereas tactics you need to see this one whereas tactics you need to see this one whereas tactics you need to see this one line line line so it's more precise so this this one's so it's more precise so this this one's so it's more precise so this this one's cool because he can like you know the

cool because he can like you know the cool because he can like you know the queen can come out the bishop can come queen can come out the bishop can come queen can come out the bishop can come out yeah and that's uh out yeah and that's uh out yeah and that's uh one of the most popular checkmates and one of the most popular checkmates and one of the most popular checkmates and usually what you teach new students to usually what you teach new students to usually what you teach new students to try to cheese their friends because then try to cheese their friends because then try to cheese their friends because then they feel really excited that they know they feel really excited that they know they feel really excited that they know this new trap where you bring the bishop this new trap where you bring the bishop this new trap where you bring the bishop and the queen out and you try to check and the queen out and you try to check and the queen out and you try to check mate on f7 yeah it's the trap that uh mate on f7 yeah it's the trap that uh mate on f7 yeah it's the trap that uh queen's gambit beth harmon falls for queen's gambit beth harmon falls for queen's gambit beth harmon falls for nerf like first game versus the janitor nerf like first game versus the janitor nerf like first game versus the janitor she gets all mad because she gets she gets all mad because she gets she gets all mad because she gets checkmated very early that's the one she checkmated very early that's the one she checkmated very early that's the one she gets checkmated with yeah okay i love gets checkmated with yeah okay i love gets checkmated with yeah okay i love how you guys were actually paying how you guys were actually paying how you guys were actually paying attention to the games carefully attention to the games carefully attention to the games carefully uh which is pretty cool that they did a uh which is pretty cool that they did a uh which is pretty cool that they did a good job of good job of good job of improving evolving her game throughout improving evolving her game throughout improving evolving her game throughout the show to actually the show to actually the show to actually represent an actual growth of a chess represent an actual growth of a chess represent an actual growth of a chess player yeah they they really player yeah they they really player yeah they they really took every detail into consideration took every detail into consideration took every detail into consideration which was cool okay so what what else which was cool okay so what what else which was cool okay so what what else that's that's i brought stuff that's that's i brought stuff that's that's i brought stuff okay okay okay so then you want to develop your pieces so then you want to develop your pieces so then you want to develop your pieces so in the beginning of the game you want so in the beginning of the game you want so in the beginning of the game you want to take out the bishops and knights to take out the bishops and knights to take out the bishops and knights first because you don't want to start first because you don't want to start first because you don't want to start with the most valuable piece like the with the most valuable piece like the with the most valuable piece like the queen queen queen because then it'll become a because then it'll become a because then it'll become a vulnerability and it'll get attacked vulnerability and it'll get attacked vulnerability and it'll get attacked very early on very early on very early on and the reason you're taking up these and the reason you're taking up these and the reason you're taking up these two pieces first is because you want to two pieces first is because you want to two pieces first is because you want to castle your king so you can move a night castle your king so you can move a night castle your king so you can move a night move or a bishop move and that's move or a bishop move and that's move or a bishop move and that's considered developing yeah so if at this considered developing yeah so if at this considered developing yeah so if at this stage not stage not stage not like even before getting a few pawns out like even before getting a few pawns out like even before getting a few pawns out you usually you usually you usually want to start with getting a pawn want to start with getting a pawn want to start with getting a pawn because you want to get space in the because you want to get space in the because you want to get space in the center but also when you push pawns it center but also when you push pawns it center but also when you push pawns it helps free up some of your pieces helps free up some of your pieces helps free up some of your pieces um um um so usually start with one pawn first and so usually start with one pawn first and so usually start with one pawn first and then you can start taking out your minor

then you can start taking out your minor then you can start taking out your minor pieces which is the bishop in the night pieces which is the bishop in the night pieces which is the bishop in the night i have anxiety about a pawn just i have anxiety about a pawn just i have anxiety about a pawn just floating out there floating out there floating out there defenseless but i'm not attacked yet defenseless but i'm not attacked yet defenseless but i'm not attacked yet it's a see those are what you call ghost it's a see those are what you call ghost it's a see those are what you call ghost threats so you're scared of something threats so you're scared of something threats so you're scared of something that hasn't happened yet so if i were to that hasn't happened yet so if i were to that hasn't happened yet so if i were to attack it i feel like there's a deeper attack it i feel like there's a deeper attack it i feel like there's a deeper thing going on here thing going on here thing going on here actually let's say actually let's say actually let's say yes so you're attacking the pawn in the yes so you're attacking the pawn in the yes so you're attacking the pawn in the center here and it is vulnerable but as center here and it is vulnerable but as center here and it is vulnerable but as soon as you do that soon as you do that soon as you do that i can develop my own knight and defend i can develop my own knight and defend i can develop my own knight and defend it as well it as well it as well okay and now for people just listening okay and now for people just listening okay and now for people just listening there's two pawns that just came out to there's two pawns that just came out to there's two pawns that just came out to meet each other and a couple of nights meet each other and a couple of nights meet each other and a couple of nights we love the chess card we love the chess card we love the chess card the pawns met after midnight yeah yeah the pawns met after midnight yeah yeah the pawns met after midnight yeah yeah i'm gonna romanticize the game a bit i'm gonna romanticize the game a bit i'm gonna romanticize the game a bit exactly uh okay cool so exactly uh okay cool so exactly uh okay cool so so like there's uh so like there's uh so like there's uh if you bring out the bishops with the if you bring out the bishops with the if you bring out the bishops with the knights you're matching that with the knights you're matching that with the knights you're matching that with the other uh the black is going to match it other uh the black is going to match it other uh the black is going to match it whatever you're attacking with yeah whatever you're attacking with yeah whatever you're attacking with yeah can't defend it i could develop your can't defend it i could develop your can't defend it i could develop your bishop or your knight whatever you'd bishop or your knight whatever you'd bishop or your knight whatever you'd like like like oh no now you gave him options oh right oh no now you gave him options oh right oh no now you gave him options oh right yeah yeah yeah there you go there you go there you go now i am attacking the pawn in the now i am attacking the pawn in the now i am attacking the pawn in the center which is what you were afraid center which is what you were afraid center which is what you were afraid about before but let's see how you about before but let's see how you about before but let's see how you defend it here by doing this symmetrical thing bringing by doing this symmetrical thing bringing out the knight on the other side and out the knight on the other side and out the knight on the other side and actually your other move was good as actually your other move was good as actually your other move was good as well defending with the pawn because well defending with the pawn because well defending with the pawn because then you're freeing up space for your then you're freeing up space for your then you're freeing up space for your bishop so you're basically trying to bishop so you're basically trying to bishop so you're basically trying to develop your pieces as quickly as develop your pieces as quickly as develop your pieces as quickly as possible put your pawns in the center

possible put your pawns in the center possible put your pawns in the center and then get your king to safety and and then get your king to safety and and then get your king to safety and that's usually the basic opening tips that's usually the basic opening tips that's usually the basic opening tips that you get it is kind of that you get it is kind of that you get it is kind of counterintuitive that safety is in the counterintuitive that safety is in the counterintuitive that safety is in the corner of the board for kings corner of the board for kings corner of the board for kings that was always confusing to me but you that was always confusing to me but you that was always confusing to me but you know three pawns in front though you know three pawns in front though you know three pawns in front though you typically don't push those typically don't push those typically don't push those maybe like one maybe i'll go one square maybe like one maybe i'll go one square maybe like one maybe i'll go one square but but but these are will be like the wall of these are will be like the wall of these are will be like the wall of defense that keep them safe but another defense that keep them safe but another defense that keep them safe but another way to also think about it is um your way to also think about it is um your way to also think about it is um your pieces usually want to point towards the pieces usually want to point towards the pieces usually want to point towards the center if you have a knight closer to center if you have a knight closer to center if you have a knight closer to the center then closer to the side it the center then closer to the side it the center then closer to the side it actually has more squares it can go to actually has more squares it can go to actually has more squares it can go to so a huge part of it is just wanting to so a huge part of it is just wanting to so a huge part of it is just wanting to have flexibility for where your pieces have flexibility for where your pieces have flexibility for where your pieces go so more pieces are going to be able go so more pieces are going to be able go so more pieces are going to be able to make threats in the center or even to make threats in the center or even to make threats in the center or even open up the position so since that's open up the position so since that's open up the position so since that's where it's most likely where it's most likely where it's most likely to open you want your king somewhere to open you want your king somewhere to open you want your king somewhere where the position will stay closed so where the position will stay closed so where the position will stay closed so that you have the pawns to defend you that you have the pawns to defend you that you have the pawns to defend you know there is like rules like this but i know there is like rules like this but i know there is like rules like this but i always wonder because i build chess always wonder because i build chess always wonder because i build chess engines but then engines but then engines but then you start to wonder like why is it that you start to wonder like why is it that you start to wonder like why is it that positionally these things are good like positionally these things are good like positionally these things are good like you've built up an intuition about it you've built up an intuition about it you've built up an intuition about it but i wish and that's the thing that but i wish and that's the thing that but i wish and that's the thing that would be amazing if engines could would be amazing if engines could would be amazing if engines could explain explain explain why is this kind of thing better than why is this kind of thing better than why is this kind of thing better than this kind of thing you start to build up this kind of thing you start to build up this kind of thing you start to build up an intuition but if i'm just like know an intuition but if i'm just like know an intuition but if i'm just like know nothing about chess it feels confusing nothing about chess it feels confusing nothing about chess it feels confusing that cornering your king that cornering your king that cornering your king like getting them like getting them like getting them uh uh uh like trapped here like it feels like you like trapped here like it feels like you like trapped here like it feels like you could get check made it easier there if

could get check made it easier there if could get check made it easier there if i was just using like dumb intuition but i was just using like dumb intuition but i was just using like dumb intuition but it seems like that's not the case it seems like that's not the case it seems like that's not the case i imagine maybe because alpha zero i imagine maybe because alpha zero i imagine maybe because alpha zero learned by playing games against itself learned by playing games against itself learned by playing games against itself right yeah and i imagine if you have a right yeah and i imagine if you have a right yeah and i imagine if you have a lot of games then you do build intuition lot of games then you do build intuition lot of games then you do build intuition because if you were to keep your king in because if you were to keep your king in because if you were to keep your king in the center you just see that in those the center you just see that in those the center you just see that in those games you're dealing with threats a lot games you're dealing with threats a lot games you're dealing with threats a lot more often more often more often um but yeah they're shortcut rules and um but yeah they're shortcut rules and um but yeah they're shortcut rules and this doesn't even mean it's the best way this doesn't even mean it's the best way this doesn't even mean it's the best way to play chess as we've seen with to play chess as we've seen with to play chess as we've seen with alpha zero kind of changing the rules of alpha zero kind of changing the rules of alpha zero kind of changing the rules of the game a little bit but as a human the game a little bit but as a human the game a little bit but as a human to learn it from scratch is a lot more to learn it from scratch is a lot more to learn it from scratch is a lot more difficult than to start with principles difficult than to start with principles difficult than to start with principles so that's why beginners usually learn so that's why beginners usually learn so that's why beginners usually learn chess this way chess this way chess this way yeah but because you're playing other yeah but because you're playing other yeah but because you're playing other humans and the other humans have also humans and the other humans have also humans and the other humans have also operated under different principles and operated under different principles and operated under different principles and that's why that's why that's why people that come up now that are people that come up now that are people that come up now that are training with engines training with engines training with engines are just going to be much better at than are just going to be much better at than are just going to be much better at than the people of the past because they're the people of the past because they're the people of the past because they're going to have they're going to try out going to have they're going to try out going to have they're going to try out weirder ideas that go against the weirder ideas that go against the weirder ideas that go against the principles of old right and they're principles of old right and they're principles of old right and they're gonna do like weird stuff including gonna do like weird stuff including gonna do like weird stuff including sacrifices and stuff like that yeah and sacrifices and stuff like that yeah and sacrifices and stuff like that yeah and i also think that's why alpha zero was i also think that's why alpha zero was i also think that's why alpha zero was so shocking because stockfish was using so shocking because stockfish was using so shocking because stockfish was using an opening database so it was already an opening database so it was already an opening database so it was already based off of knowledge that humans have based off of knowledge that humans have based off of knowledge that humans have from playing chess for years that we from playing chess for years that we from playing chess for years that we just thought is how you're supposed to just thought is how you're supposed to just thought is how you're supposed to play whereas alpha zero just learned play whereas alpha zero just learned play whereas alpha zero just learned from playing the game so many times and from playing the game so many times and from playing the game so many times and came up with very novel opening ideas came up with very novel opening ideas came up with very novel opening ideas were you impressed by alpha have you were you impressed by alpha have you were you impressed by alpha have you have you seen some of the games i have have you seen some of the games i have have you seen some of the games i have seen some of the games i think seen some of the games i think seen some of the games i think impressed bewildered impressed bewildered impressed bewildered and uh motivated were the three things i

and uh motivated were the three things i and uh motivated were the three things i experienced i think magnus said uh he experienced i think magnus said uh he experienced i think magnus said uh he was also impressed that was also impressed that was also impressed that it could easily be mistaken for it could easily be mistaken for it could easily be mistaken for creativity that's this trash talk creativity that's this trash talk creativity that's this trash talk towards the ai that was a beautiful towards the ai that was a beautiful towards the ai that was a beautiful sentence i i was listening to the sentence i i was listening to the sentence i i was listening to the podcast podcast podcast i mean i mean i mean as a human i agree with him because you as a human i agree with him because you as a human i agree with him because you don't want to give the machine the the don't want to give the machine the the don't want to give the machine the the power of creativity but power of creativity but power of creativity but if it looks creative if it looks creative if it looks creative get give it give it a compliment that's get give it give it a compliment that's get give it give it a compliment that's that's fair that's fair that's fair i know that you're being nice to the i know that you're being nice to the i know that you're being nice to the machines in case they are ever looking machines in case they are ever looking machines in case they are ever looking back through this back through this back through this what else is there what other principles what else is there what other principles what else is there what other principles are there for the um the opening you can are there for the um the opening you can are there for the um the opening you can go a little bit go a little bit go a little bit more forward let's say and yeah we can more forward let's say and yeah we can more forward let's say and yeah we can finish full of development positions finish full of development positions finish full of development positions like this like this like this let's just say you developed all of your let's just say you developed all of your let's just say you developed all of your pieces pieces pieces um um um so that's like a really nice so that's like a really nice so that's like a really nice like nobody nobody took any pieces and like nobody nobody took any pieces and like nobody nobody took any pieces and we're just in a nice positional thing we're just in a nice positional thing we're just in a nice positional thing yeah so it's not actually a very yeah so it's not actually a very yeah so it's not actually a very accurate yes accurate yes accurate yes i could put a different one on the board i could put a different one on the board i could put a different one on the board but usually after you've developed all but usually after you've developed all but usually after you've developed all of your pieces of your pieces of your pieces um you want to get your queen out a um you want to get your queen out a um you want to get your queen out a little bit to connect your rooks and you little bit to connect your rooks and you little bit to connect your rooks and you also start thinking about certain pawn also start thinking about certain pawn also start thinking about certain pawn pushes and getting more space pushes and getting more space pushes and getting more space but another good tip is just can you but another good tip is just can you but another good tip is just can you improve the position of your pieces improve the position of your pieces improve the position of your pieces think about timing so if you've already think about timing so if you've already think about timing so if you've already moved a piece once and there's a piece moved a piece once and there's a piece moved a piece once and there's a piece that hasn't moved at all then you want that hasn't moved at all then you want that hasn't moved at all then you want to focus on the piece that hasn't moved to focus on the piece that hasn't moved to focus on the piece that hasn't moved at all at all at all to be able to have it more likely to to be able to have it more likely to to be able to have it more likely to jump into the game right so don't move jump into the game right so don't move jump into the game right so don't move pieces multiple times exactly like try pieces multiple times exactly like try pieces multiple times exactly like try to move it to the most optimal position

to move it to the most optimal position to move it to the most optimal position yeah yeah that makes sense what uh yeah yeah that makes sense what uh yeah yeah that makes sense what uh so what's the indian so i think we kind so what's the indian so i think we kind so what's the indian so i think we kind of went over it but why did you ever say of went over it but why did you ever say of went over it but why did you ever say why you like it so much because that's why you like it so much because that's why you like it so much because that's weird because it's king-sized i liked it weird because it's king-sized i liked it weird because it's king-sized i liked it because it's a very fun aggressive because it's a very fun aggressive because it's a very fun aggressive defense where you're just throwing your defense where you're just throwing your defense where you're just throwing your pieces towards white and there's so many pieces towards white and there's so many pieces towards white and there's so many sacrificing opportunities sacrificing opportunities sacrificing opportunities and for some reason tactical games and for some reason tactical games and for some reason tactical games always feel like the most beautiful the always feel like the most beautiful the always feel like the most beautiful the most satisfying and that's what i liked most satisfying and that's what i liked most satisfying and that's what i liked about the king's indian but i also about the king's indian but i also about the king's indian but i also suffered a lot from this this love suffered a lot from this this love suffered a lot from this this love because i would play things that are not because i would play things that are not because i would play things that are not necessarily correct then my attack necessarily correct then my attack necessarily correct then my attack wouldn't pan out and i would just wouldn't pan out and i would just wouldn't pan out and i would just struggle the rest of the game having no struggle the rest of the game having no struggle the rest of the game having no play and just trying to defend so if play and just trying to defend so if play and just trying to defend so if you're always a wikipedia also says that you're always a wikipedia also says that you're always a wikipedia also says that that you're known for your attacking that you're known for your attacking that you're known for your attacking play play play it's also known for losses according to it's also known for losses according to it's also known for losses according to stanford okay let's not bring see stanford okay let's not bring see stanford okay let's not bring see wikipedia doesn't talk trash wikipedia doesn't talk trash wikipedia doesn't talk trash a lot nicer um i actually a lot nicer um i actually a lot nicer um i actually played a lot of positional chess in played a lot of positional chess in played a lot of positional chess in classic because i really like the slow classic because i really like the slow classic because i really like the slow squeeze squeeze squeeze but when i transition to playing a lot but when i transition to playing a lot but when i transition to playing a lot of online chess it's of online chess it's of online chess it's almost as if i was looking for more almost as if i was looking for more almost as if i was looking for more instant gratification because it feels instant gratification because it feels instant gratification because it feels so much better to beat someone with an so much better to beat someone with an so much better to beat someone with an attack and even if sometimes it doesn't attack and even if sometimes it doesn't attack and even if sometimes it doesn't pan out i was okay with it because you pan out i was okay with it because you pan out i was okay with it because you get so many games in get so many games in get so many games in so i think my style in online chess so i think my style in online chess so i think my style in online chess really changed for my classical chess really changed for my classical chess really changed for my classical chess what about you andrea do you have a what about you andrea do you have a what about you andrea do you have a style are you attacking are you uh more style are you attacking are you uh more style are you attacking are you uh more like conservative defensive player

like conservative defensive player like conservative defensive player are you chaotic opening wise i like to are you chaotic opening wise i like to are you chaotic opening wise i like to play more positionally like i like to play more positionally like i like to play more positionally like i like to push d4 and just slowly improve my push d4 and just slowly improve my push d4 and just slowly improve my pieces and slowly get an attack but like pieces and slowly get an attack but like pieces and slowly get an attack but like alex said if you're playing bullet chess alex said if you're playing bullet chess alex said if you're playing bullet chess or blitz against viewers you often like or blitz against viewers you often like or blitz against viewers you often like wanna wanna wanna play riskier moves that may not be as play riskier moves that may not be as play riskier moves that may not be as good and then that's kind of when i good and then that's kind of when i good and then that's kind of when i would play more aggressive but i do would play more aggressive but i do would play more aggressive but i do enjoy tournaments for that reason enjoy tournaments for that reason enjoy tournaments for that reason because then because then because then like once her 15 moves in which as soon like once her 15 moves in which as soon like once her 15 moves in which as soon as you're out of your prep i like as you're out of your prep i like as you're out of your prep i like sitting and thinking in more positional sitting and thinking in more positional sitting and thinking in more positional um um um yeah positional middle games one of the yeah positional middle games one of the yeah positional middle games one of the games you found to be pretty cool is the games you found to be pretty cool is the games you found to be pretty cool is the uh hakara nakamura versus golf on in uh hakara nakamura versus golf on in uh hakara nakamura versus golf on in 2009. and that one i think includes the 2009. and that one i think includes the 2009. and that one i think includes the king's indian defense yes um what's king's indian defense yes um what's king's indian defense yes um what's what's why is that an interesting one to what's why is that an interesting one to what's why is that an interesting one to you i also played the king's indian as you i also played the king's indian as you i also played the king's indian as black and i loved this model game but black and i loved this model game but black and i loved this model game but and as alex was saying like all these and as alex was saying like all these and as alex was saying like all these advantages for the king's indian but now advantages for the king's indian but now advantages for the king's indian but now there's this one line there's this one line there's this one line that like every higher rated player just that like every higher rated player just that like every higher rated player just destroys my king's indian and you see destroys my king's indian and you see destroys my king's indian and you see these beautiful games they're like oh these beautiful games they're like oh these beautiful games they're like oh yes i want to play for these ideas but yes i want to play for these ideas but yes i want to play for these ideas but now no one plays into it anymore and you now no one plays into it anymore and you now no one plays into it anymore and you just get demolished so this is why i just get demolished so this is why i just get demolished so this is why i don't play the kings indeed anymore but don't play the kings indeed anymore but don't play the kings indeed anymore but not to ruin the fun right the love hate not to ruin the fun right the love hate not to ruin the fun right the love hate relationship truly the reality but relationship truly the reality but relationship truly the reality but that's like the higher level players do that's like the higher level players do that's like the higher level players do or does everybody yeah if you're or does everybody yeah if you're or does everybody yeah if you're studying openings and you know this line studying openings and you know this line studying openings and you know this line as white you just you automatically get as white you just you automatically get as white you just you automatically get the upper edge and that's kind of how the upper edge and that's kind of how the upper edge and that's kind of how openings develop you start having openings develop you start having openings develop you start having players trying new lines and then you

players trying new lines and then you players trying new lines and then you see ones and then everybody adopts it if see ones and then everybody adopts it if see ones and then everybody adopts it if they think it's the best one but yeah so they think it's the best one but yeah so they think it's the best one but yeah so hikaru is really known for his hikaru is really known for his hikaru is really known for his aggressive style of play aggressive style of play aggressive style of play black hero yeah hikaru is black here so black hero yeah hikaru is black here so black hero yeah hikaru is black here so he's playing the king's indian he's playing the king's indian he's playing the king's indian and as you can see in this position and as you can see in this position and as you can see in this position white already has a lot a huge center white already has a lot a huge center white already has a lot a huge center advantage but what hikaru is going to advantage but what hikaru is going to advantage but what hikaru is going to start doing even with the next move is start doing even with the next move is start doing even with the next move is bringing all of his pieces towards the bringing all of his pieces towards the bringing all of his pieces towards the white king side because his plan is to white king side because his plan is to white king side because his plan is to start pushing his pawns towards the start pushing his pawns towards the start pushing his pawns towards the white king and this ignore the attacks white king and this ignore the attacks white king and this ignore the attacks that's a great example of a dream attack that's a great example of a dream attack that's a great example of a dream attack with the king's indian so there's a with the king's indian so there's a with the king's indian so there's a complete asymmetry towards the king side complete asymmetry towards the king side complete asymmetry towards the king side on the left side of the board is a ton on the left side of the board is a ton on the left side of the board is a ton of pieces yeah exactly um of pieces yeah exactly um of pieces yeah exactly um wow he moved the night like three times wow he moved the night like three times wow he moved the night like three times in a row in a row in a row and that's what you need to do because and that's what you need to do because and that's what you need to do because you have to move the knight in order to you have to move the knight in order to you have to move the knight in order to make space for your pawn so again this make space for your pawn so again this make space for your pawn so again this is why it's so counter-intuitive and is why it's so counter-intuitive and is why it's so counter-intuitive and stockfish doesn't like it you're putting stockfish doesn't like it you're putting stockfish doesn't like it you're putting almost most of your pieces on the back almost most of your pieces on the back almost most of your pieces on the back rank and you're pushing your king side rank and you're pushing your king side rank and you're pushing your king side pawns and you're blocking your own dark pawns and you're blocking your own dark pawns and you're blocking your own dark squared bishop so none of it makes sense squared bishop so none of it makes sense squared bishop so none of it makes sense you're mimicking it that's awesome um you're mimicking it that's awesome um you're mimicking it that's awesome um okay so yeah here you see white going okay so yeah here you see white going okay so yeah here you see white going for queen side attack black going for for queen side attack black going for for queen side attack black going for the king side attack and you can keep the king side attack and you can keep the king side attack and you can keep going a little bit and i'll wait to going a little bit and i'll wait to going a little bit and i'll wait to where he starts with the pretty where he starts with the pretty where he starts with the pretty sacrifices sacrifices sacrifices it's more fun to analyze games in person it's more fun to analyze games in person it's more fun to analyze games in person than on the computer i think yeah okay than on the computer i think yeah okay than on the computer i think yeah okay okay so here hikaru is preparing the okay so here hikaru is preparing the okay so here hikaru is preparing the attack and what i really like about this attack and what i really like about this attack and what i really like about this game is that he finds these tactics that game is that he finds these tactics that game is that he finds these tactics that are not necessarily what a computer

are not necessarily what a computer are not necessarily what a computer would go for but it's very hard to face would go for but it's very hard to face would go for but it's very hard to face as a human and that's why a lot of as a human and that's why a lot of as a human and that's why a lot of people play the king's indian because in people play the king's indian because in people play the king's indian because in in practice it's hard to defend against in practice it's hard to defend against in practice it's hard to defend against so we can keep moving a little bit so we can keep moving a little bit so we can keep moving a little bit forward yep so white is just continuing the king yep so white is just continuing the king side plan now it's the first is that side plan now it's the first is that side plan now it's the first is that like the first piece i think that's like the first piece i think that's like the first piece i think that's taken in the game yep that's the first taken in the game yep that's the first taken in the game yep that's the first trade so it begins exactly hikaru had to trade so it begins exactly hikaru had to trade so it begins exactly hikaru had to pause his attack for a little bit to pause his attack for a little bit to pause his attack for a little bit to just make sure that white didn't have just make sure that white didn't have just make sure that white didn't have two dire threats on the queen side so two dire threats on the queen side so two dire threats on the queen side so cool to see the asymmetry of this thing cool to see the asymmetry of this thing cool to see the asymmetry of this thing exactly that's what's beautiful about exactly that's what's beautiful about exactly that's what's beautiful about this and just one thing to highlight this and just one thing to highlight this and just one thing to highlight because his his rook move here is very because his his rook move here is very because his his rook move here is very bizarre and typically like a computer bizarre and typically like a computer bizarre and typically like a computer probably didn't like this but the ideas probably didn't like this but the ideas probably didn't like this but the ideas are very interesting because this is a are very interesting because this is a are very interesting because this is a major weakness for black that they're major weakness for black that they're major weakness for black that they're coming to attack and he's also making coming to attack and he's also making coming to attack and he's also making room for his bishop to come backwards room for his bishop to come backwards room for his bishop to come backwards and challenge so this is like a and challenge so this is like a and challenge so this is like a human-like maneuver that computer i human-like maneuver that computer i human-like maneuver that computer i think computers would like this though think computers would like this though think computers would like this though because you have you'd have to move it because you have you'd have to move it because you have you'd have to move it regardless because he has he takes the regardless because he has he takes the regardless because he has he takes the pawn here and his rook would be under pawn here and his rook would be under pawn here and his rook would be under attack yeah well have you looked at it attack yeah well have you looked at it attack yeah well have you looked at it when i actually studied this as a line when i actually studied this as a line when i actually studied this as a line and this right away isn't the best move and this right away isn't the best move and this right away isn't the best move current computer so actually that's a current computer so actually that's a current computer so actually that's a good question did you guys when you good question did you guys when you good question did you guys when you study games use your own mind but do you study games use your own mind but do you study games use your own mind but do you also use computers to also use computers to also use computers to build up your intuition of like looking build up your intuition of like looking build up your intuition of like looking at a position like this and what would a at a position like this and what would a at a position like this and what would a computer do and then try to understand computer do and then try to understand computer do and then try to understand why it wants to do that when i was why it wants to do that when i was why it wants to do that when i was studying seriously i would try to use my studying seriously i would try to use my studying seriously i would try to use my own mind because you're never going to own mind because you're never going to own mind because you're never going to get the exact same position so you get the exact same position so you get the exact same position so you really need to notice trends and often

really need to notice trends and often really need to notice trends and often computers will give you moves that are computers will give you moves that are computers will give you moves that are only specific to that position because only specific to that position because only specific to that position because of a certain tactic of a certain tactic of a certain tactic um but i do use computers to check what um but i do use computers to check what um but i do use computers to check what i did and make sure i didn't make any i did and make sure i didn't make any i did and make sure i didn't make any obvious blunder that i might have missed obvious blunder that i might have missed obvious blunder that i might have missed what does a computer tell you just like what does a computer tell you just like what does a computer tell you just like what what is the best move or does it what what is the best move or does it what what is the best move or does it give you give you give you any kind of explanation of why it any kind of explanation of why it any kind of explanation of why it doesn't tell you why but it gives you doesn't tell you why but it gives you doesn't tell you why but it gives you the different valuations of the position the different valuations of the position the different valuations of the position like black is like black is like black is down a half pawn here or something like down a half pawn here or something like down a half pawn here or something like that um but it hints you towards what that um but it hints you towards what that um but it hints you towards what the right move is and then it's on you the right move is and then it's on you the right move is and then it's on you to figure out why and you could usually to figure out why and you could usually to figure out why and you could usually figure out why if not right away than figure out why if not right away than figure out why if not right away than just by going through a few moves and just by going through a few moves and just by going through a few moves and being like oh okay that makes sense i being like oh okay that makes sense i being like oh okay that makes sense i feel like a computer will take you down feel like a computer will take you down feel like a computer will take you down with some weird lines potentially with some weird lines potentially with some weird lines potentially like sacrifice like why the hell am i like sacrifice like why the hell am i like sacrifice like why the hell am i sacrificing this sacrificing this sacrificing this well we'll get to the pretty sacrifice well we'll get to the pretty sacrifice well we'll get to the pretty sacrifice soon um soon um soon um so we could just keep playing bonds are so we could just keep playing bonds are so we could just keep playing bonds are being pushed forward yeah being pushed forward yeah being pushed forward yeah and hikaru is kind of ignoring the queen and hikaru is kind of ignoring the queen and hikaru is kind of ignoring the queen side attack here um they basically both side attack here um they basically both side attack here um they basically both only reply to each other's plan when only reply to each other's plan when only reply to each other's plan when they have to they have to they have to this is where you convert all the this is where you convert all the this is where you convert all the podcast viewers to youtube yeah they podcast viewers to youtube yeah they podcast viewers to youtube yeah they have no idea what we're talking about have no idea what we're talking about have no idea what we're talking about right now there is a zen like experience right now there is a zen like experience right now there is a zen like experience of just like listening and imagining the of just like listening and imagining the of just like listening and imagining the board just imagine the pieces on the board just imagine the pieces on the board just imagine the pieces on the ceiling yeah you should we should be ceiling yeah you should we should be ceiling yeah you should we should be calling them out and then people will be calling them out and then people will be calling them out and then people will be freaking out even more am i supposed to freaking out even more am i supposed to freaking out even more am i supposed to keep track of what the position is how hard is blindfold just have you how hard is blindfold just have you tried like are you able to keep them

tried like are you able to keep them tried like are you able to keep them i've played blindfold chest before um i've played blindfold chest before um i've played blindfold chest before um for me it's pretty hard it's not a for me it's pretty hard it's not a for me it's pretty hard it's not a muscle that i've trained as much and i'm muscle that i've trained as much and i'm muscle that i've trained as much and i'm very visual when it comes to chess um very visual when it comes to chess um very visual when it comes to chess um but it is one as a top player that but it is one as a top player that but it is one as a top player that starts becoming very second nature for starts becoming very second nature for starts becoming very second nature for you actually this is what you actually this is what you actually this is what i talked to magnus about this i talked to magnus about this i talked to magnus about this um maybe i was again influenced by um maybe i was again influenced by um maybe i was again influenced by queen's gambit what do you actually queen's gambit what do you actually queen's gambit what do you actually visualize when it's in your head visualize when it's in your head visualize when it's in your head so for magnus it was a boring 2d board so for magnus it was a boring 2d board so for magnus it was a boring 2d board right are you do you have some kind of right are you do you have some kind of right are you do you have some kind of that's every chess player no you don't that's every chess player no you don't that's every chess player no you don't have like because you know some chess have like because you know some chess have like because you know some chess like uh computer games you can do all like uh computer games you can do all like uh computer games you can do all kinds of skins and like yeah like fancy kinds of skins and like yeah like fancy kinds of skins and like yeah like fancy stuff you don't have anything sadly i stuff you don't have anything sadly i stuff you don't have anything sadly i don't have like a cool 3d warrior mode don't have like a cool 3d warrior mode don't have like a cool 3d warrior mode on it's just a chess baseboard in my on it's just a chess baseboard in my on it's just a chess baseboard in my head head head because you don't yeah you can't use because you don't yeah you can't use because you don't yeah you can't use your brain power for adding colors to it your brain power for adding colors to it your brain power for adding colors to it because you already have to keep track because you already have to keep track because you already have to keep track of the pieces it's one board at a time of the pieces it's one board at a time of the pieces it's one board at a time yes okay the current position yeah i bet yes okay the current position yeah i bet yes okay the current position yeah i bet every chest i wonder if there's any who every chest i wonder if there's any who every chest i wonder if there's any who there's certain players who are really there's certain players who are really there's certain players who are really good and they can even play blindfold good and they can even play blindfold good and they can even play blindfold chess and play multiple games at the chess and play multiple games at the chess and play multiple games at the same time um same time um same time um so i would be curious how they do it but so i would be curious how they do it but so i would be curious how they do it but usually when you're thinking of one game usually when you're thinking of one game usually when you're thinking of one game that's the only one that's the only one that's the only one in your mind yeah but you have to do in your mind yeah but you have to do in your mind yeah but you have to do this operation where you move one piece this operation where you move one piece this operation where you move one piece you're doing like the branch analysis you're doing like the branch analysis you're doing like the branch analysis like yeah like yeah like yeah and so and so and so uh you still have to somehow visualize uh you still have to somehow visualize uh you still have to somehow visualize the the branching process the the branching process the the branching process um and not forget stuff maybe that's um and not forget stuff maybe that's um and not forget stuff maybe that's like constant memory recall or something like constant memory recall or something like constant memory recall or something you're always looking one board at a

you're always looking one board at a you're always looking one board at a time but and you're also oh because time but and you're also oh because time but and you're also oh because you're also looking in the future yeah you're also looking in the future yeah you're also looking in the future yeah yeah and then you have to backtrack yeah and then you have to backtrack yeah and then you have to backtrack you're keeping the position in your you're keeping the position in your you're keeping the position in your memory so you're remembering where all memory so you're remembering where all memory so you're remembering where all the pieces are and then you're playing the pieces are and then you're playing the pieces are and then you're playing it out on one board and then you can it out on one board and then you can it out on one board and then you can come back to the initial one that you come back to the initial one that you come back to the initial one that you started with that you kind of just keep started with that you kind of just keep started with that you kind of just keep in your brain and it's also easier to in your brain and it's also easier to in your brain and it's also easier to come back to it once you've played a come back to it once you've played a come back to it once you've played a position from it position from it position from it i feel like it's that i feel like it's that i feel like it's that memory recall memory recall memory recall that gets you to blunder so i'll like that gets you to blunder so i'll like that gets you to blunder so i'll like see that i'm being attacked by certain see that i'm being attacked by certain see that i'm being attacked by certain things things things but then because i get so exhausted but then because i get so exhausted but then because i get so exhausted thinking about a different thing i thinking about a different thing i thinking about a different thing i forget i actually forget about an entire forget i actually forget about an entire forget i actually forget about an entire branch of things that i was supposed to branch of things that i was supposed to branch of things that i was supposed to be worried about it happens very often be worried about it happens very often be worried about it happens very often yeah if you spend a bunch of time yeah if you spend a bunch of time yeah if you spend a bunch of time calculating in a position let's say like calculating in a position let's say like calculating in a position let's say like when you're really in trouble and you're when you're really in trouble and you're when you're really in trouble and you're spending 15 20 minutes calculating spending 15 20 minutes calculating spending 15 20 minutes calculating you'll forget about something that you you'll forget about something that you you'll forget about something that you spotted like oh if i do these two three spotted like oh if i do these two three spotted like oh if i do these two three moves i'll walk into a trap because moves i'll walk into a trap because moves i'll walk into a trap because you've looked at so many lines and then you've looked at so many lines and then you've looked at so many lines and then you play it and then you see it and you play it and then you see it and you play it and then you see it and you're like oh i i looked at it and i you're like oh i i looked at it and i you're like oh i i looked at it and i saw it but i forgot about it yeah saw it but i forgot about it yeah saw it but i forgot about it yeah it's often called tunneling where you're it's often called tunneling where you're it's often called tunneling where you're just looking so deeply on one thing you just looking so deeply on one thing you just looking so deeply on one thing you forget about the rest of the board forget about the rest of the board forget about the rest of the board and it's the worst when at least in a and it's the worst when at least in a and it's the worst when at least in a beginner level there's like a beginner level there's like a beginner level there's like a i don't know a bishop just sitting there i don't know a bishop just sitting there i don't know a bishop just sitting there obviously attacking your like queen or obviously attacking your like queen or obviously attacking your like queen or something and then you just forget that something and then you just forget that something and then you just forget that bishop exists bishop exists bishop exists because if they just sit there for a few because if they just sit there for a few because if they just sit there for a few moves and don't move moves and don't move moves and don't move you just forget their existence and then you just forget their existence and then you just forget their existence and then it's just yeah that's that's definitely it's just yeah that's that's definitely it's just yeah that's that's definitely very embarrassing well it happens to

very embarrassing well it happens to very embarrassing well it happens to everyone so everyone so everyone so yes yes yes um um um okay cool okay cool okay cool okay so okay so okay so we see a few trades happening on the we see a few trades happening on the we see a few trades happening on the queen side where he had to go for those queen side where he had to go for those queen side where he had to go for those otherwise he's in trouble um and this is otherwise he's in trouble um and this is otherwise he's in trouble um and this is where the game oh sorry where the game oh sorry where the game oh sorry this is where he gets excited yeah so so this is where he gets excited yeah so so this is where he gets excited yeah so so knight h4 is really when the sacrifice knight h4 is really when the sacrifice knight h4 is really when the sacrifice starts starts starts and and and here here here the two important pawns are the ones in the two important pawns are the ones in the two important pawns are the ones in front of the king because they're front of the king because they're front of the king because they're helping with the entire defense and helping with the entire defense and helping with the entire defense and ikaro is actually preparing to sacrifice ikaro is actually preparing to sacrifice ikaro is actually preparing to sacrifice his knight for a pawn his knight for a pawn his knight for a pawn just so that he can continue his attack just so that he can continue his attack just so that he can continue his attack and open up the position because if you and open up the position because if you and open up the position because if you don't do that here as black and don't don't do that here as black and don't don't do that here as black and don't get some kind of attack you are get some kind of attack you are get some kind of attack you are completely lost on the queen side and completely lost on the queen side and completely lost on the queen side and also you've pushed all of your own king also you've pushed all of your own king also you've pushed all of your own king side pawns so you're going to be in side pawns so you're going to be in side pawns so you're going to be in danger so it's one of those do or die danger so it's one of those do or die danger so it's one of those do or die moments oh okay so that that's what moments oh okay so that that's what moments oh okay so that that's what makes it all in because the king is wide makes it all in because the king is wide makes it all in because the king is wide open yeah yeah the king is wide open and open yeah yeah the king is wide open and open yeah yeah the king is wide open and you all of white's pieces are pointed you all of white's pieces are pointed you all of white's pieces are pointed towards the queen side too where you're towards the queen side too where you're towards the queen side too where you're also cramped so it's the attack also cramped so it's the attack also cramped so it's the attack primarily by black done by the two pawns primarily by black done by the two pawns primarily by black done by the two pawns and then and the knight and the light and then and the knight and the light and then and the knight and the light squared bishop is always extremely squared bishop is always extremely squared bishop is always extremely important so you don't want to trade important so you don't want to trade important so you don't want to trade this in the king's indian because it's this in the king's indian because it's this in the king's indian because it's very helpful for a lot of attacks very helpful for a lot of attacks very helpful for a lot of attacks even though it's on the other side of even though it's on the other side of even though it's on the other side of the board i guess it can go all the way the board i guess it can go all the way the board i guess it can go all the way across in in across in in across in in like i i'm not sure what it's doing here like i i'm not sure what it's doing here like i i'm not sure what it's doing here but probably threatening like for but probably threatening like for but probably threatening like for example if if it was another move black example if if it was another move black example if if it was another move black could have played would be something could have played would be something could have played would be something like bishop h3 where if you take the like bishop h3 where if you take the like bishop h3 where if you take the bishop you actually get mated on g2 bishop you actually get mated on g2 bishop you actually get mated on g2 with what so let's say you take here and

with what so let's say you take here and with what so let's say you take here and then you could push the pawn and then it then you could push the pawn and then it then you could push the pawn and then it would be checkmate would be checkmate would be checkmate so you're kind of using your bishop to so you're kind of using your bishop to so you're kind of using your bishop to sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice against whites against whites against whites king side pawns king side pawns king side pawns yeah i'll be freaking out if the bishop yeah i'll be freaking out if the bishop yeah i'll be freaking out if the bishop did that exactly what are they up to did that exactly what are they up to did that exactly what are they up to right and that's the thing this position right and that's the thing this position right and that's the thing this position looks very scary as white because all of looks very scary as white because all of looks very scary as white because all of black's pawns are starting to come black's pawns are starting to come black's pawns are starting to come towards you and it's one of those things towards you and it's one of those things towards you and it's one of those things where where where humans do start to worry in these humans do start to worry in these humans do start to worry in these positions whereas computers obviously positions whereas computers obviously positions whereas computers obviously can just calculate the best line and can just calculate the best line and can just calculate the best line and maybe the attack doesn't go through so maybe the attack doesn't go through so maybe the attack doesn't go through so you're saying the computer might say you're saying the computer might say you're saying the computer might say that the white is actually a slight that the white is actually a slight that the white is actually a slight favorite here yeah especially exactly favorite here yeah especially exactly favorite here yeah especially exactly okay so then uh okay so then uh okay so then uh white makes a little bit of room by white makes a little bit of room by white makes a little bit of room by moving the rook right and the attack moving the rook right and the attack moving the rook right and the attack begins begins begins i like the commentary here i like the commentary here i like the commentary here then the knight um the knight is hugging then the knight um the knight is hugging then the knight um the knight is hugging the king and actually white can't even the king and actually white can't even the king and actually white can't even take the king here because then h4 and take the king here because then h4 and take the king here because then h4 and h3 is coming in i can't take the knight h3 is coming in i can't take the knight h3 is coming in i can't take the knight yeah did i say king yes thank you the yeah did i say king yes thank you the yeah did i say king yes thank you the knight well why can't take the knight knight well why can't take the knight knight well why can't take the knight because why um so if white takes the because why um so if white takes the because why um so if white takes the knight here then black starts pushing knight here then black starts pushing knight here then black starts pushing his pawn to h4 with h3 incoming and the his pawn to h4 with h3 incoming and the his pawn to h4 with h3 incoming and the idea of trying to defend against this idea of trying to defend against this idea of trying to defend against this is is is it looks very difficult so why just it looks very difficult so why just it looks very difficult so why just choose it it'd be cool to watch a chess choose it it'd be cool to watch a chess choose it it'd be cool to watch a chess game to experience watching it without game to experience watching it without game to experience watching it without understanding it just for a day i feel understanding it just for a day i feel understanding it just for a day i feel like i could use that to make better like i could use that to make better like i could use that to make better content true um content true um content true um okay i mean that's what getting drunk okay i mean that's what getting drunk okay i mean that's what getting drunk does it does it does it start unfortunately for chess players it start unfortunately for chess players it start unfortunately for chess players it never leaves you

never leaves you never leaves you doesn't matter how but this is actually doesn't matter how but this is actually doesn't matter how but this is actually a very cute move because black's queen a very cute move because black's queen a very cute move because black's queen is under attack is under attack is under attack but the king is so cramped that he can't but the king is so cramped that he can't but the king is so cramped that he can't actually take it or he's going to get actually take it or he's going to get actually take it or he's going to get checkmated by a pawn which is a sad way checkmated by a pawn which is a sad way checkmated by a pawn which is a sad way to go truly yeah those pawns are doing a to go truly yeah those pawns are doing a to go truly yeah those pawns are doing a lot of work here that is the king's lot of work here that is the king's lot of work here that is the king's indian this is the king's indian player indian this is the king's indian player indian this is the king's indian player attack of the king side pawns attack of the king side pawns attack of the king side pawns yeah these pawns are like uh right so yeah these pawns are like uh right so yeah these pawns are like uh right so they're the ones that are doing a lot of they're the ones that are doing a lot of they're the ones that are doing a lot of the threatening right and they're also the threatening right and they're also the threatening right and they're also opening up the position to bring more of opening up the position to bring more of opening up the position to bring more of the pieces in but that the pieces in but that the pieces in but that the pawns kind of help break open the the pawns kind of help break open the the pawns kind of help break open the king side but they can't checkmate by king side but they can't checkmate by king side but they can't checkmate by themselves so after the pawns come in themselves so after the pawns come in themselves so after the pawns come in that's when you need to start bringing that's when you need to start bringing that's when you need to start bringing in pieces as well which you will see uh in pieces as well which you will see uh in pieces as well which you will see uh hikaru do here okay there you go he puts hikaru do here okay there you go he puts hikaru do here okay there you go he puts more sacrifices so this was actually more sacrifices so this was actually more sacrifices so this was actually another beautiful sacrifice in the game another beautiful sacrifice in the game another beautiful sacrifice in the game um um um but then puts the king in check with the but then puts the king in check with the but then puts the king in check with the pawn right that and the pawn is going to pawn right that and the pawn is going to pawn right that and the pawn is going to be given here for free but the idea is be given here for free but the idea is be given here for free but the idea is you're giving your own peace because you you're giving your own peace because you you're giving your own peace because you want to have more space and open up the want to have more space and open up the want to have more space and open up the king which is what you're always trying king which is what you're always trying king which is what you're always trying to do when you have a king side you're to do when you have a king side you're to do when you have a king side you're trying to remove as many of the king's trying to remove as many of the king's trying to remove as many of the king's defenders as you can without giving up defenders as you can without giving up defenders as you can without giving up too much and then you have a ton of too much and then you have a ton of too much and then you have a ton of pieces on the king's side for black pieces on the king's side for black pieces on the king's side for black just waiting to just waiting to just waiting to exactly to do harm and then uh and exactly to do harm and then uh and exactly to do harm and then uh and notice how every single move white is notice how every single move white is notice how every single move white is getting attacked like they're just never getting attacked like they're just never getting attacked like they're just never getting a break black just keeps getting a break black just keeps getting a break black just keeps throwing all their so it's funny that throwing all their so it's funny that throwing all their so it's funny that black's queen has been hanging for like black's queen has been hanging for like black's queen has been hanging for like three moves now and white still can't do three moves now and white still can't do three moves now and white still can't do anything about it yeah so rock puts the anything about it yeah so rock puts the anything about it yeah so rock puts the king in check yep the king runs

king in check yep the king runs king in check yep the king runs and then again we leave the queen and then again we leave the queen and then again we leave the queen hanging and you develop a piece the hanging and you develop a piece the hanging and you develop a piece the slight squared bishop that's so slight squared bishop that's so slight squared bishop that's so important and you're once again important and you're once again important and you're once again threatening checkmate on g2 threatening checkmate on g2 threatening checkmate on g2 and then bishop's coming to yeah again and then bishop's coming to yeah again and then bishop's coming to yeah again the queen hanging i think and i mean the the queen hanging i think and i mean the the queen hanging i think and i mean the game is just so beautiful the amount of game is just so beautiful the amount of game is just so beautiful the amount of calculation hikaru put into this calculation hikaru put into this calculation hikaru put into this position it feels like so much is in position it feels like so much is in position it feels like so much is in danger right it's so interesting danger right it's so interesting danger right it's so interesting and uh knight takes what upons so now and uh knight takes what upons so now and uh knight takes what upons so now his queen is attacked twice his queen is attacked twice his queen is attacked twice and and and he doesn't care he takes the bishop and he doesn't care he takes the bishop and he doesn't care he takes the bishop and he's still threatening the checkmate on he's still threatening the checkmate on he's still threatening the checkmate on g2 g2 g2 and then the queen takes the bishop yep and then the queen takes the bishop yep and then the queen takes the bishop yep so now he's defending against g2 so now he's defending against g2 so now he's defending against g2 and black just goes and grabs some and black just goes and grabs some and black just goes and grabs some material back here so here black is material back here so here black is material back here so here black is already is winning already is winning already is winning well he ends up winning a night here well he ends up winning a night here well he ends up winning a night here because black had to be so much on the because black had to be so much on the because black had to be so much on the defensive he's just taking pieces yeah i defensive he's just taking pieces yeah i defensive he's just taking pieces yeah i mean at this point you're up two whole mean at this point you're up two whole mean at this point you're up two whole pieces so pieces so pieces so you would yeah exactly but you would yeah exactly but you would yeah exactly but and queen and queen and queen queen queen queen and then you take and then you take and then you take and then the rook takes and then the rook takes and then the rook takes and and and there's not as much of an attack on the there's not as much of an attack on the there's not as much of an attack on the king anymore but hikaru is up a knight king anymore but hikaru is up a knight king anymore but hikaru is up a knight here which is gg here which is gg here which is gg yeah what's the correct way of of of yeah what's the correct way of of of yeah what's the correct way of of of saying that because i was i played uh saying that because i was i played uh saying that because i was i played uh albus i played him in chess and then i albus i played him in chess and then i albus i played him in chess and then i quickly realized

quickly realized quickly realized like from his facial expressions that i like from his facial expressions that i like from his facial expressions that i should have like should have like should have like stopped playing oh it was like it's stopped playing oh it was like it's stopped playing oh it was like it's already set yeah and then he's like already set yeah and then he's like already set yeah and then he's like like this is the good time to like give like this is the good time to like give like this is the good time to like give up right you're not going to get to up right you're not going to get to up right you're not going to get to checkmate where like this you know he checkmate where like this you know he checkmate where like this you know he could see like the checkmate is like could see like the checkmate is like could see like the checkmate is like five or seven moves away or something five or seven moves away or something five or seven moves away or something this and uh what's the play this and uh what's the play this and uh what's the play usually you have to resign if you're in usually you have to resign if you're in usually you have to resign if you're in a position or you should a position or you should a position or you should through chess etiquette resign when through chess etiquette resign when through chess etiquette resign when you're in a position where you're in a position where you're in a position where your opponent is definitely going to win your opponent is definitely going to win your opponent is definitely going to win out of respect like if you're a piece out of respect like if you're a piece out of respect like if you're a piece down down down um and obviously all top grand masters um and obviously all top grand masters um and obviously all top grand masters do that the only people who don't do do that the only people who don't do do that the only people who don't do that is kids because their coaches play that is kids because their coaches play that is kids because their coaches play until they get their coaches always tell until they get their coaches always tell until they get their coaches always tell them never resign and they'll be in them never resign and they'll be in them never resign and they'll be in hopelessly lost positions playing hopelessly lost positions playing hopelessly lost positions playing against like two rooks a king and they against like two rooks a king and they against like two rooks a king and they only have their soul king but they're only have their soul king but they're only have their soul king but they're still playing on so that's a position still playing on so that's a position still playing on so that's a position where it's obvious they can't win where it's obvious they can't win where it's obvious they can't win because the kids might make errors yeah because the kids might make errors yeah because the kids might make errors yeah and so might as well and so might as well and so might as well that was the interesting thing about i that was the interesting thing about i that was the interesting thing about i think game six of the previous world think game six of the previous world think game six of the previous world championship with magnus was it the one championship with magnus was it the one championship with magnus was it the one where he beat nap yeah the first time he where he beat nap yeah the first time he where he beat nap yeah the first time he beat him where was like beat him where was like beat him where was like he said that he said that he said that i don't know how often you come across i don't know how often you come across i don't know how often you come across this kind of situation he said the this kind of situation he said the this kind of situation he said the engines predict the draw engines predict the draw engines predict the draw yeah yeah yeah but but but that doesn't mean that it's going to be that doesn't mean that it's going to be that doesn't mean that it's going to be a draw so you play on a draw so you play on a draw so you play on hoping that you take a person into i hoping that you take a person into i hoping that you take a person into i mean this is i guess an endgame thing mean this is i guess an endgame thing mean this is i guess an endgame thing you take them to deep water and they

you take them to deep water and they you take them to deep water and they make a positional mistake or something i make a positional mistake or something i make a positional mistake or something i don't i don't know when don't i don't know when don't i don't know when like he from his gut knows that this is like he from his gut knows that this is like he from his gut knows that this is supposed to be a draw but he still plays supposed to be a draw but he still plays supposed to be a draw but he still plays on yeah i mean on yeah i mean on yeah i mean that is one where it could theoretically that is one where it could theoretically that is one where it could theoretically be a draw but it could be very hard to be a draw but it could be very hard to be a draw but it could be very hard to defend because it's a hard technique to defend because it's a hard technique to defend because it's a hard technique to know as a human and especially in that know as a human and especially in that know as a human and especially in that game i know that uh nepo was also in game i know that uh nepo was also in game i know that uh nepo was also in time pressure which makes it even harder time pressure which makes it even harder time pressure which makes it even harder so in situations like that you should so in situations like that you should so in situations like that you should always continue it's more where an always continue it's more where an always continue it's more where an engine would give you something like engine would give you something like engine would give you something like plus 10 or something where it's not just plus 10 or something where it's not just plus 10 or something where it's not just clearly a win but anybody would know how clearly a win but anybody would know how clearly a win but anybody would know how to win and that's where you're usually to win and that's where you're usually to win and that's where you're usually supposed to resign supposed to resign supposed to resign so what do you find beautiful about this so what do you find beautiful about this so what do you find beautiful about this game is it the uh game is it the uh game is it the uh the the attacking chess and just the the the the attacking chess and just the the the the attacking chess and just the the asymmetry of it it's the asymmetry asymmetry of it it's the asymmetry asymmetry of it it's the asymmetry and it's the fact that this is the dream and it's the fact that this is the dream and it's the fact that this is the dream for the king's indian uh where you're for the king's indian uh where you're for the king's indian uh where you're able to get a beautiful attack and able to get a beautiful attack and able to get a beautiful attack and there's also those two really nice there's also those two really nice there's also those two really nice sacrifices where sacrifices where sacrifices where black just continuously kept putting black just continuously kept putting black just continuously kept putting pressure on white's king to the point pressure on white's king to the point pressure on white's king to the point where he was able to win material where he was able to win material where he was able to win material and the best part of it is that if the and the best part of it is that if the and the best part of it is that if the attack didn't work out black would have attack didn't work out black would have attack didn't work out black would have been completely lost been completely lost been completely lost how often does that happen by the way how often does that happen by the way how often does that happen by the way like as an attacking player you like how like as an attacking player you like how like as an attacking player you like how often do you put yourself in the often do you put yourself in the often do you put yourself in the position of like position of like position of like i'm screwed unless this works out on an i'm screwed unless this works out on an i'm screwed unless this works out on an online chest more than i should and it's online chest more than i should and it's online chest more than i should and it's usually when i sacrifice i know it's usually when i sacrifice i know it's usually when i sacrifice i know it's either gonna work or i'm lost either gonna work or i'm lost either gonna work or i'm lost and those are the most fun

and those are the most fun and those are the most fun positions to play usually but in positions to play usually but in positions to play usually but in tournaments if you're doing a sacrifice tournaments if you're doing a sacrifice tournaments if you're doing a sacrifice you're playing it with 100 confidence you're playing it with 100 confidence you're playing it with 100 confidence because you're taking the time to because you're taking the time to because you're taking the time to calculate it but yeah when you have calculate it but yeah when you have calculate it but yeah when you have three minutes you don't have time so you three minutes you don't have time so you three minutes you don't have time so you take a whim and you follow your take a whim and you follow your take a whim and you follow your intuition or you find out later or intuition or you find out later or intuition or you find out later or you're very confident it'll work and you you're very confident it'll work and you you're very confident it'll work and you haven't calculated all the way until the haven't calculated all the way until the haven't calculated all the way until the end but you've calculated to the point end but you've calculated to the point end but you've calculated to the point where you have enough in exchange for where you have enough in exchange for where you have enough in exchange for the sack and you think you could play the sack and you think you could play the sack and you think you could play that position uh how do you train chess that position uh how do you train chess that position uh how do you train chess these days these days these days what's um what's um what's um do you practice do you do deliberate do you practice do you do deliberate do you practice do you do deliberate practice i mean you're in this tough practice i mean you're in this tough practice i mean you're in this tough position because you're also a creator position because you're also a creator position because you're also a creator and educator and entertainer and educator and entertainer and educator and entertainer so so so do you try to put in time of like daily do you try to put in time of like daily do you try to put in time of like daily practice practice practice i don't train chess anymore when i'm i don't train chess anymore when i'm i don't train chess anymore when i'm focusing on creating i do if i'm focusing on creating i do if i'm focusing on creating i do if i'm preparing for a tournament but back in preparing for a tournament but back in preparing for a tournament but back in the day i would train very tournament the day i would train very tournament the day i would train very tournament very seriously for tournaments and very seriously for tournaments and very seriously for tournaments and the way it would work is i do opening the way it would work is i do opening the way it would work is i do opening preparation for a specific tournament preparation for a specific tournament preparation for a specific tournament because that's when you really need to because that's when you really need to because that's when you really need to have those lines memorized and you could have those lines memorized and you could have those lines memorized and you could also prepare for specific opponents and also prepare for specific opponents and also prepare for specific opponents and i would do tactics to make sure i stay i would do tactics to make sure i stay i would do tactics to make sure i stay sharp so those are the two things i sharp so those are the two things i sharp so those are the two things i would do every single day for a would do every single day for a would do every single day for a tournament and then mix up the rest with tournament and then mix up the rest with tournament and then mix up the rest with like maybe some end games maybe some like maybe some end games maybe some like maybe some end games maybe some positional chess so what does tactics uh positional chess so what does tactics uh positional chess so what does tactics uh preparation looks like do you do like a preparation looks like do you do like a preparation looks like do you do like a puzzle puzzle puzzle like uh like a random puzzle thing like uh like a random puzzle thing like uh like a random puzzle thing yeah i would just train puzzles for at yeah i would just train puzzles for at yeah i would just train puzzles for at least like 30 to 60 minutes or books and least like 30 to 60 minutes or books and least like 30 to 60 minutes or books and sometimes you were sometimes you were sometimes you were and there's different kinds of puzzles

and there's different kinds of puzzles and there's different kinds of puzzles one you could train for pattern one you could train for pattern one you could train for pattern recognition where you're supposed to go recognition where you're supposed to go recognition where you're supposed to go through them very quickly and that's through them very quickly and that's through them very quickly and that's just so that when you're playing the just so that when you're playing the just so that when you're playing the game if your mind is tired it's still game if your mind is tired it's still game if your mind is tired it's still keeping keeping keeping track of things a little bit more easily track of things a little bit more easily track of things a little bit more easily and then there's where you're practicing and then there's where you're practicing and then there's where you're practicing your combination and those sometimes your combination and those sometimes your combination and those sometimes take like 20 minutes to find because you take like 20 minutes to find because you take like 20 minutes to find because you have to just calculate a lot and it's have to just calculate a lot and it's have to just calculate a lot and it's more like making sure that you've more like making sure that you've more like making sure that you've trained with that muscle but andrea is trained with that muscle but andrea is trained with that muscle but andrea is actually very good at actually very good at actually very good at finding ways to balance and still study finding ways to balance and still study finding ways to balance and still study while also doing content yeah so what while also doing content yeah so what while also doing content yeah so what you're able to do both you're able to do both you're able to do both that's the hard thing i was getting very that's the hard thing i was getting very that's the hard thing i was getting very irritated with content because i'm very irritated with content because i'm very irritated with content because i'm very competitive i don't like playing chess competitive i don't like playing chess competitive i don't like playing chess if i'm losing and if you're talking and if i'm losing and if you're talking and if i'm losing and if you're talking and entertaining you're going to be losing entertaining you're going to be losing entertaining you're going to be losing more games than winning so then i more games than winning so then i more games than winning so then i started doing more training streams started doing more training streams started doing more training streams where i'd bring on my coach where i'd bring on my coach where i'd bring on my coach and one of the things that i wanted to and one of the things that i wanted to and one of the things that i wanted to add to alex is training repertoire so i add to alex is training repertoire so i add to alex is training repertoire so i do i would do daily puzzles every time do i would do daily puzzles every time do i would do daily puzzles every time i'm streaming which helped me a lot even i'm streaming which helped me a lot even i'm streaming which helped me a lot even if it's like there's this thing on if it's like there's this thing on if it's like there's this thing on chess.com called puzzle rush where you chess.com called puzzle rush where you chess.com called puzzle rush where you have three minutes and you just do have three minutes and you just do have three minutes and you just do puzzle after puzzle where they get puzzle after puzzle where they get puzzle after puzzle where they get incrementally harder incrementally harder incrementally harder um and it's just a really good way to um and it's just a really good way to um and it's just a really good way to build your pattern recognition build your pattern recognition build your pattern recognition especially when you're rusty so i would especially when you're rusty so i would especially when you're rusty so i would do that until i hit a high score and i do that until i hit a high score and i do that until i hit a high score and i wouldn't play any blitz until i hit the wouldn't play any blitz until i hit the wouldn't play any blitz until i hit the score that i want um but that's kind of score that i want um but that's kind of score that i want um but that's kind of more like the fun part of chess studying more like the fun part of chess studying more like the fun part of chess studying the very important one is actually the very important one is actually the very important one is actually analyzing your losses and your analyzing your losses and your analyzing your losses and your tournament games tournament games tournament games and first you sit and you look through and first you sit and you look through and first you sit and you look through your mistake yourself and try to see if your mistake yourself and try to see if your mistake yourself and try to see if you can find the better moves and then you can find the better moves and then you can find the better moves and then that's why you would check over with a that's why you would check over with a that's why you would check over with a computer to see if you're right

computer to see if you're right computer to see if you're right so game analysis is also very important so game analysis is also very important so game analysis is also very important which i try to do remember to give a which i try to do remember to give a which i try to do remember to give a shout out i listened to a couple of shout out i listened to a couple of shout out i listened to a couple of episodes of the perpetual chess podcast episodes of the perpetual chess podcast episodes of the perpetual chess podcast which is pretty pretty good but what which is pretty pretty good but what which is pretty pretty good but what with the whatever i listen to i remember with the whatever i listen to i remember with the whatever i listen to i remember the per it's um the per it's um the per it's um i think they really focus on i think they really focus on i think they really focus on like teaching people like teaching people like teaching people how to train yeah how to play how to how to train yeah how to play how to how to train yeah how to play how to train all that kind of stuff uh they do train all that kind of stuff uh they do train all that kind of stuff uh they do like uh like uh like uh yeah i'm looking now adult improver so yeah i'm looking now adult improver so yeah i'm looking now adult improver so basically basically basically like how do regular noobs get better at like how do regular noobs get better at like how do regular noobs get better at chess yeah uh one of the things they one chess yeah uh one of the things they one chess yeah uh one of the things they one of the person that said i think he's the of the person that said i think he's the of the person that said i think he's the grandmaster but he said uh grandmaster but he said uh grandmaster but he said uh to maximize the amount of time you spend to maximize the amount of time you spend to maximize the amount of time you spend every day of like every day of like every day of like basically as you were saying like basically as you were saying like basically as you were saying like suffering so like suffering so like suffering so like you it's not about the like you should you it's not about the like you should you it's not about the like you should be thinking you should be doing be thinking you should be doing be thinking you should be doing calculating so it's the opposite of what calculating so it's the opposite of what calculating so it's the opposite of what magnus said like magnus said like magnus said like you should be doing a lot of time it you should be doing a lot of time it you should be doing a lot of time it doesn't matter what the puzzle is or doesn't matter what the puzzle is or doesn't matter what the puzzle is or whatever the hell you're doing but you whatever the hell you're doing but you whatever the hell you're doing but you should be like doing that difficult should be like doing that difficult should be like doing that difficult calculation that's how you get better calculation that's how you get better calculation that's how you get better yeah it really depends what you're yeah it really depends what you're yeah it really depends what you're training because i used to think the training because i used to think the training because i used to think the same but it depends what you're weak same but it depends what you're weak same but it depends what you're weak you're at because if you're doing the you're at because if you're doing the you're at because if you're doing the really difficult puzzles you're training really difficult puzzles you're training really difficult puzzles you're training for like visualization and calculating for like visualization and calculating for like visualization and calculating more moves ahead than you typically more moves ahead than you typically more moves ahead than you typically would which maybe you wouldn't get into would which maybe you wouldn't get into would which maybe you wouldn't get into that as often in a regular game because that as often in a regular game because that as often in a regular game because typically you run into like three to typically you run into like three to typically you run into like three to four tactics which are actually the four tactics which are actually the four tactics which are actually the easier and more fun ones to solve so it easier and more fun ones to solve so it easier and more fun ones to solve so it really depends and on top of that as a really depends and on top of that as a really depends and on top of that as a hobbyist your motivation is very hobbyist your motivation is very hobbyist your motivation is very different than when you're playing from

different than when you're playing from different than when you're playing from a young age and have pretty high a young age and have pretty high a young age and have pretty high competitive ambition competitive ambition competitive ambition and and and a lot of people who are new to chess a lot of people who are new to chess a lot of people who are new to chess you could basically work on anything and you could basically work on anything and you could basically work on anything and still improve still improve still improve so if you're focusing on something you so if you're focusing on something you so if you're focusing on something you like you're probably going to stick to like you're probably going to stick to like you're probably going to stick to it more and be more consistent which i it more and be more consistent which i it more and be more consistent which i think is more helpful long term what was think is more helpful long term what was think is more helpful long term what was the most embarrassing loss the most embarrassing loss the most embarrassing loss of your career of your career of your career i had so many flashbacks but i'm so glad i had so many flashbacks but i'm so glad i had so many flashbacks but i'm so glad it's a question for andrea i like that it's a question for andrea i like that it's a question for andrea i like that you specified you know it's funny you specified you know it's funny you specified you know it's funny because because because i mean because you said you're so i mean because you said you're so i mean because you said you're so competitive and like yeah no i could competitive and like yeah no i could competitive and like yeah no i could tell just even from the way you said it tell just even from the way you said it tell just even from the way you said it that that that like you hate losing yeah i mean that like you hate losing yeah i mean that like you hate losing yeah i mean that was the reason i hated chess in high was the reason i hated chess in high was the reason i hated chess in high school because it'd always be like but school because it'd always be like but school because it'd always be like but okay there's many traumatizing losses okay there's many traumatizing losses okay there's many traumatizing losses whereas you're like you're top three whereas you're like you're top three whereas you're like you're top three you're running for first and then you you're running for first and then you you're running for first and then you throw a game you shouldn't but and this throw a game you shouldn't but and this throw a game you shouldn't but and this shouldn't hurt my ego as much as it does shouldn't hurt my ego as much as it does shouldn't hurt my ego as much as it does um but it's always kids um but it's always kids um but it's always kids or when i was a high school girl it's or when i was a high school girl it's or when i was a high school girl it's the younger boys who are really cocky the younger boys who are really cocky the younger boys who are really cocky and when they win they start rubbing it and when they win they start rubbing it and when they win they start rubbing it in your face and they're yawning and in your face and they're yawning and in your face and they're yawning and looking around when like looking around when like looking around when like 90 of the game you were destroying them 90 of the game you were destroying them 90 of the game you were destroying them and you had this one tiny mistake and and you had this one tiny mistake and and you had this one tiny mistake and now their ego is huge um but i'll never now their ego is huge um but i'll never now their ego is huge um but i'll never forget i was playing like for a chess forget i was playing like for a chess forget i was playing like for a chess scholarship um and i was it was scholarship um and i was it was scholarship um and i was it was tiebreaker for first and i think i lost tiebreaker for first and i think i lost tiebreaker for first and i think i lost to a 12 year old girl who couldn't even to a 12 year old girl who couldn't even to a 12 year old girl who couldn't even use the scholarship but she beat me in use the scholarship but she beat me in use the scholarship but she beat me in one first place and she got some other one first place and she got some other one first place and she got some other prize um so yeah i was losing to that prize um so yeah i was losing to that prize um so yeah i was losing to that little girl who's literally like 2 300

little girl who's literally like 2 300 little girl who's literally like 2 300 now so now so now so makes sense all right you keep telling makes sense all right you keep telling makes sense all right you keep telling yourself that what do you think because yourself that what do you think because yourself that what do you think because do you think caspar was feeling that do you think caspar was feeling that do you think caspar was feeling that when he was playing 13 year old magnus when he was playing 13 year old magnus when he was playing 13 year old magnus like yeah why as much as it's a beauty like yeah why as much as it's a beauty like yeah why as much as it's a beauty of the sport that any age can be of the sport that any age can be of the sport that any age can be brilliant any demographic anything brilliant any demographic anything brilliant any demographic anything um i feel like when you're adults and um i feel like when you're adults and um i feel like when you're adults and you're paired against the kid it's just you're paired against the kid it's just you're paired against the kid it's just hard not to let it get to key and it hard not to let it get to key and it hard not to let it get to key and it depends maybe if they're a really sweet depends maybe if they're a really sweet depends maybe if they're a really sweet kid but most times i play kids they're kid but most times i play kids they're kid but most times i play kids they're just really arrogant and but i don't just really arrogant and but i don't just really arrogant and but i don't think they do it intentionally because think they do it intentionally because think they do it intentionally because they're kids i mean there is a certain they're kids i mean there is a certain they're kids i mean there is a certain etiquette thing where like like you said etiquette thing where like like you said etiquette thing where like like you said yawning and in general like it's not yawning and in general like it's not yawning and in general like it's not kids there's no etiquette yeah yeah kids there's no etiquette yeah yeah kids there's no etiquette yeah yeah yeah the kids traumatized me too i was yeah the kids traumatized me too i was yeah the kids traumatized me too i was playing in vegas and playing in vegas and playing in vegas and it was not even my opponent it was the it was not even my opponent it was the it was not even my opponent it was the board next to me and the kid was at board next to me and the kid was at board next to me and the kid was at least 10 years old made 12 max and he least 10 years old made 12 max and he least 10 years old made 12 max and he was playing against an adult and he was playing against an adult and he was playing against an adult and he takes out his hand and he starts doing a takes out his hand and he starts doing a takes out his hand and he starts doing a fake phone to which the kid studying fake phone to which the kid studying fake phone to which the kid studying sitting across diagonally picks up their sitting across diagonally picks up their sitting across diagonally picks up their banana and starts talking like it's a banana and starts talking like it's a banana and starts talking like it's a phone and they're just mouthing words phone and they're just mouthing words phone and they're just mouthing words why their two adult opponents are why their two adult opponents are why their two adult opponents are thinking intensely at the game and then thinking intensely at the game and then thinking intensely at the game and then i see the adult look up look at the kid i see the adult look up look at the kid i see the adult look up look at the kid just making banana phones and then just making banana phones and then just making banana phones and then destroying his eyes as he sighs destroying his eyes as he sighs destroying his eyes as he sighs yeah and they're not even doing for yeah and they're not even doing for yeah and they're not even doing for trash talking no no they're just trash talking no no they're just trash talking no no they're just bored kids yes exactly what was the bored kids yes exactly what was the bored kids yes exactly what was the because you you played a bunch of uh because you you played a bunch of uh because you you played a bunch of uh people for for your channel uh what was people for for your channel uh what was people for for your channel uh what was the most like memorable what's the most the most like memorable what's the most the most like memorable what's the most fun most intense

fun most intense fun most intense there's a bunch of fun ones you've there's a bunch of fun ones you've there's a bunch of fun ones you've played kids before some trash talking played kids before some trash talking played kids before some trash talking kids kids kids that sounds great that sounds great that sounds great they trash talk kids yeah nothing like a they trash talk kids yeah nothing like a they trash talk kids yeah nothing like a loser 12 year old who then starts doing loser 12 year old who then starts doing loser 12 year old who then starts doing a fortnight dance yeah a fortnight dance yeah a fortnight dance yeah so that that actually happened that did so that that actually happened that did so that that actually happened that did happen he he is uh you know a very young happen he he is uh you know a very young happen he he is uh you know a very young master i think he became master when he master i think he became master when he master i think he became master when he was like nine years old or something and was like nine years old or something and was like nine years old or something and he's very good at chess and doing a lot he's very good at chess and doing a lot he's very good at chess and doing a lot of training but he's also incredibly of training but he's also incredibly of training but he's also incredibly good at trash talking and he beat me one good at trash talking and he beat me one good at trash talking and he beat me one game and he stood up and he started game and he stood up and he started game and he stood up and he started doing the fortnite dance doing the fortnite dance doing the fortnite dance so you know you gotta just swallow your so you know you gotta just swallow your so you know you gotta just swallow your pride in those moments what is that pride in those moments what is that pride in those moments what is that culture of like street chess players it culture of like street chess players it culture of like street chess players it seems it seems pretty interesting like seems it seems pretty interesting like seems it seems pretty interesting like um um um i don't know that seems to be i don't know that seems to be i don't know that seems to be celebrating the beauty of the game it's celebrating the beauty of the game it's celebrating the beauty of the game it's the trash talking but also having fun the trash talking but also having fun the trash talking but also having fun with it but also taking it seriously with it but also taking it seriously with it but also taking it seriously and you've done a few of those did you and you've done a few of those did you and you've done a few of those did you go to new york yeah in union square park go to new york yeah in union square park go to new york yeah in union square park washington square what was that like washington square what was that like washington square what was that like it's such a unique place i haven't seen it's such a unique place i haven't seen it's such a unique place i haven't seen it anywhere else in the us where people it anywhere else in the us where people it anywhere else in the us where people are just are just are just professional chess hustlers even if professional chess hustlers even if professional chess hustlers even if they're not necessarily you know a top they're not necessarily you know a top they're not necessarily you know a top player but they play chess every single player but they play chess every single player but they play chess every single day and so many of them learned chess by day and so many of them learned chess by day and so many of them learned chess by themselves and never had a professional themselves and never had a professional themselves and never had a professional coach so they are quite good at it coach so they are quite good at it coach so they are quite good at it they're also very tight-knit they all they're also very tight-knit they all they're also very tight-knit they all know each other and it's a very social know each other and it's a very social know each other and it's a very social thing where you're not just playing thing where you're not just playing thing where you're not just playing chess it's the experience of getting to chess it's the experience of getting to chess it's the experience of getting to know this person who's a know this person who's a know this person who's a very much a personality and they talk to

very much a personality and they talk to very much a personality and they talk to you they could either give you tips or you they could either give you tips or you they could either give you tips or they can be really chatty and talk to they can be really chatty and talk to they can be really chatty and talk to you during so it's a chess experience you during so it's a chess experience you during so it's a chess experience rather than just playing a game do you rather than just playing a game do you rather than just playing a game do you tell them like what your rating is or do tell them like what your rating is or do tell them like what your rating is or do you just let people just like you just let people just like you just let people just like both ways do you discover how good the both ways do you discover how good the both ways do you discover how good the actual the person actually initially i actual the person actually initially i actual the person actually initially i loved going and not telling people my loved going and not telling people my loved going and not telling people my rating and just surprising them and and rating and just surprising them and and rating and just surprising them and and winning games but now we've gone so many winning games but now we've gone so many winning games but now we've gone so many times that they just know us so we can't times that they just know us so we can't times that they just know us so we can't get away with it anymore one time get away with it anymore one time get away with it anymore one time actually i don't know if i should share actually i don't know if i should share actually i don't know if i should share this but one time this but one time this but one time we dressed up as grandmothers and we had we dressed up as grandmothers and we had we dressed up as grandmothers and we had prosthetics on our face yeah and i think prosthetics on our face yeah and i think prosthetics on our face yeah and i think they still recognized us they still recognized us they still recognized us yeah it's probably the yeah it's probably the yeah it's probably the there's other components like probably there's other components like probably there's other components like probably the trash talk and all that it was the trash talk and all that it was the trash talk and all that it was actually no it was funny we were talking actually no it was funny we were talking actually no it was funny we were talking like grandmothers but it was the way i like grandmothers but it was the way i like grandmothers but it was the way i held held held it was the way grandmother didn't talk it was the way grandmother didn't talk it was the way grandmother didn't talk like you don't want it like you don't want it like you don't want it oh okay what were your names what were the okay what were your names what were the code names oh my god i think it was edna code names oh my god i think it was edna code names oh my god i think it was edna edna and i had a really uh i can't edna and i had a really uh i can't edna and i had a really uh i can't remember the other one remember the other one remember the other one but it was embarrassing because we were but it was embarrassing because we were but it was embarrassing because we were walking so slowly and andrea dropped her walking so slowly and andrea dropped her walking so slowly and andrea dropped her cane or something at one point then cane or something at one point then cane or something at one point then people in the park they were able to people in the park they were able to people in the park they were able to help her we felt so happy help her we felt so happy help her we felt so happy but but yeah it was funny because they but but yeah it was funny because they but but yeah it was funny because they didn't know it was us until he saw the didn't know it was us until he saw the didn't know it was us until he saw the way i reached for my pond and he said way i reached for my pond and he said way i reached for my pond and he said the way you held your pawn i knew it was the way you held your pawn i knew it was the way you held your pawn i knew it was you it was like such a sneesh thing that you it was like such a sneesh thing that you it was like such a sneesh thing that was what blew the grandma cover was what blew the grandma cover was what blew the grandma cover uh yeah do you have a style of how you uh yeah do you have a style of how you uh yeah do you have a style of how you play physically

play physically play physically is that i didn't think we did until is that i didn't think we did until is that i didn't think we did until grandma went to play chess but yeah i've grandma went to play chess but yeah i've grandma went to play chess but yeah i've never thought about that yeah i think never thought about that yeah i think never thought about that yeah i think our style is just trash talking now our style is just trash talking now our style is just trash talking now it's style is very if you're talking it's style is very if you're talking it's style is very if you're talking about style on and youtube and twitch we about style on and youtube and twitch we about style on and youtube and twitch we definitely have a distinctive style definitely have a distinctive style definitely have a distinctive style what's that what's your distinction i'm what's that what's your distinction i'm what's that what's your distinction i'm just talking shit just talking shit just talking shit but not going too far no no definitely but not going too far no no definitely but not going too far no no definitely that's that's definitely going to if that's that's definitely going to if that's that's definitely going to if it's us two against each other oh we we it's us two against each other oh we we it's us two against each other oh we we trash talk each other so hard so and i trash talk each other so hard so and i trash talk each other so hard so and i love looking at andrea love looking at andrea love looking at andrea as she's annoyed and the satisfaction i as she's annoyed and the satisfaction i as she's annoyed and the satisfaction i get when that happens get when that happens get when that happens how many times do you play against each how many times do you play against each how many times do you play against each other on online publicly i think i've other on online publicly i think i've other on online publicly i think i've seen a couple of games played a lot of seen a couple of games played a lot of seen a couple of games played a lot of times we try not to do it too often times we try not to do it too often times we try not to do it too often because it's repetitive but every now because it's repetitive but every now because it's repetitive but every now and then when we haven't done it for a and then when we haven't done it for a and then when we haven't done it for a while we'll go at it again what do you while we'll go at it again what do you while we'll go at it again what do you mean repetitive is like is that implied mean repetitive is like is that implied mean repetitive is like is that implied trash talk right there no it just we we trash talk right there no it just we we trash talk right there no it just we we place similar openings so you just start place similar openings so you just start place similar openings so you just start seeing the same position you offer each seeing the same position you offer each seeing the same position you offer each other every time other every time other every time andrea is really good at opening so i andrea is really good at opening so i andrea is really good at opening so i just start playing bad openings to get just start playing bad openings to get just start playing bad openings to get her out of her preparation because i her out of her preparation because i her out of her preparation because i don't like opening theory very much i don't like opening theory very much i don't like opening theory very much i just like playing the game and getting just like playing the game and getting just like playing the game and getting into middle into middle into middle games and end games but yeah typically games and end games but yeah typically games and end games but yeah typically the only time we're playing each other the only time we're playing each other the only time we're playing each other is when we're setting up in the park and is when we're setting up in the park and is when we're setting up in the park and we don't have opponents yet and we need we don't have opponents yet and we need we don't have opponents yet and we need content so we just play each other until content so we just play each other until content so we just play each other until people show up but we always put stakes people show up but we always put stakes people show up but we always put stakes on the line which makes it more very on the line which makes it more very on the line which makes it more very interesting because otherwise it interesting because otherwise it interesting because otherwise it wouldn't be fun to play each other if wouldn't be fun to play each other if wouldn't be fun to play each other if there's no stakes where's where is the there's no stakes where's where is the there's no stakes where's where is the most fun place you've you've played is most fun place you've you've played is most fun place you've you've played is in new york i think so and it was

in new york i think so and it was in new york i think so and it was actually when we set up in times square actually when we set up in times square actually when we set up in times square one night we just brought a table with one night we just brought a table with one night we just brought a table with us and chess and it's not even where us and chess and it's not even where us and chess and it's not even where people usually play chess but it was people usually play chess but it was people usually play chess but it was so lively there were all of the lights so lively there were all of the lights so lively there were all of the lights out and so many people just kept out and so many people just kept out and so many people just kept stopping by to play chess and it was stopping by to play chess and it was stopping by to play chess and it was really one of my favorite streams just really one of my favorite streams just really one of my favorite streams just the opposite of like the classical chess the opposite of like the classical chess the opposite of like the classical chess world it's super loud there's music world it's super loud there's music world it's super loud there's music there's cars there's street dancers even there's cars there's street dancers even there's cars there's street dancers even some naked people walking around who we some naked people walking around who we some naked people walking around who we had to be careful not to get banned yeah had to be careful not to get banned yeah had to be careful not to get banned yeah but i honestly really like the chaotic but i honestly really like the chaotic but i honestly really like the chaotic environments for chess games because i environments for chess games because i environments for chess games because i think it's a good way to break more into think it's a good way to break more into think it's a good way to break more into the mainstream culture and make it the mainstream culture and make it the mainstream culture and make it entertaining and appealing to anyone who entertaining and appealing to anyone who entertaining and appealing to anyone who doesn't know anything about chess doesn't know anything about chess doesn't know anything about chess and also in an authentic way because and also in an authentic way because and also in an authentic way because it's what we really like about chess it's what we really like about chess it's what we really like about chess when you're just enjoying the game but when you're just enjoying the game but when you're just enjoying the game but also the atmosphere and the people who also the atmosphere and the people who also the atmosphere and the people who you're playing with and that's one of you're playing with and that's one of you're playing with and that's one of the things that i think you see less the things that i think you see less the things that i think you see less when you're just thinking of chess as a when you're just thinking of chess as a when you're just thinking of chess as a competitive thing competitive thing competitive thing you've uh you mentioned a few other you've uh you mentioned a few other you've uh you mentioned a few other games like the bobby fischer games the games like the bobby fischer games the games like the bobby fischer games the candidates match the game of the century candidates match the game of the century candidates match the game of the century which i feel like is a is a weird game which i feel like is a is a weird game which i feel like is a is a weird game to call the game of the century when to call the game of the century when to call the game of the century when there's still like a few decades left in there's still like a few decades left in there's still like a few decades left in the century but yeah i mean it wasn't an the century but yeah i mean it wasn't an the century but yeah i mean it wasn't an official thing it was just the chess official thing it was just the chess official thing it was just the chess journalist on a chess article but it journalist on a chess article but it journalist on a chess article but it stuck if you look yeah no it didn't stuck if you look yeah no it didn't stuck if you look yeah no it didn't wikipedia this is all i do research-wise wikipedia this is all i do research-wise wikipedia this is all i do research-wise because there's so that particular one because there's so that particular one because there's so that particular one was was was a 13 year old fisher a 13 year old fisher a 13 year old fisher and he did a queen sacrifice and he did a queen sacrifice and he did a queen sacrifice i wonder is it there's that movie i wonder is it there's that movie i wonder is it there's that movie searching for bobby fisher was that

searching for bobby fisher was that searching for bobby fisher was that related because didn't have a young related because didn't have a young related because didn't have a young somebody who's supposed to be kind of somebody who's supposed to be kind of somebody who's supposed to be kind of like bobby fischer played by josh like bobby fischer played by josh like bobby fischer played by josh wadeskin yeah i think he ended up being wadeskin yeah i think he ended up being wadeskin yeah i think he ended up being an international master it wasn't based an international master it wasn't based an international master it wasn't based on bobby fischer was based on another on bobby fischer was based on another on bobby fischer was based on another player but i liked how they told it player but i liked how they told it player but i liked how they told it through the lens of being inspired by through the lens of being inspired by through the lens of being inspired by bobby fischer do you remember that game bobby fischer do you remember that game bobby fischer do you remember that game of like why do you think it was dubbed of like why do you think it was dubbed of like why do you think it was dubbed the game of the century it was just the game of the century it was just the game of the century it was just journalists being like i i think part of journalists being like i i think part of journalists being like i i think part of it was the atmosphere where you have the it was the atmosphere where you have the it was the atmosphere where you have the us junior champion who's this 13 year us junior champion who's this 13 year us junior champion who's this 13 year old nobody and it's the first time he's old nobody and it's the first time he's old nobody and it's the first time he's playing in a very competitive landscape playing in a very competitive landscape playing in a very competitive landscape against some of the top american players against some of the top american players against some of the top american players and he goes up against an international and he goes up against an international and he goes up against an international master so somebody who's a lot stronger master so somebody who's a lot stronger master so somebody who's a lot stronger than he is who's played in you know than he is who's played in you know than he is who's played in you know olympiads for the american team he's olympiads for the american team he's olympiads for the american team he's having a bad tournament but then he has having a bad tournament but then he has having a bad tournament but then he has this one game where he just shows off this one game where he just shows off this one game where he just shows off his uh tactical prowess and plays his uh tactical prowess and plays his uh tactical prowess and plays incredibly well and i don't know if this incredibly well and i don't know if this incredibly well and i don't know if this is true but in the paper clippings of it is true but in the paper clippings of it is true but in the paper clippings of it they'd say things like grandmasters were they'd say things like grandmasters were they'd say things like grandmasters were by the board and they would say things by the board and they would say things by the board and they would say things like oh bobby is lost in this position like oh bobby is lost in this position like oh bobby is lost in this position what is he doing but there's this 13 what is he doing but there's this 13 what is he doing but there's this 13 year old kid who's just playing year old kid who's just playing year old kid who's just playing incredibly well and then that also incredibly well and then that also incredibly well and then that also happened before happened before happened before bobby's started really rapidly improving bobby's started really rapidly improving bobby's started really rapidly improving at chess not that people knew that but at chess not that people knew that but at chess not that people knew that but he kind of seemed like a rising star so he kind of seemed like a rising star so he kind of seemed like a rising star so i think the game was beautiful but i i think the game was beautiful but i i think the game was beautiful but i also think the idea of a 13 year old kid also think the idea of a 13 year old kid also think the idea of a 13 year old kid coming out from nowhere and beating a coming out from nowhere and beating a coming out from nowhere and beating a top american player was very fascinating top american player was very fascinating top american player was very fascinating and there was aggressive chess and it and there was aggressive chess and it and there was aggressive chess and it was in the interesting ideas was in the interesting ideas was in the interesting ideas um yeah taking big risks it's cool to

um yeah taking big risks it's cool to um yeah taking big risks it's cool to see a 13 year old do that yeah see a 13 year old do that yeah see a 13 year old do that yeah uh what about the you you mentioned that uh what about the you you mentioned that uh what about the you you mentioned that his match against uh his match against uh his match against uh mark mark mark taimana from their 71 candidates match taimana from their 71 candidates match taimana from their 71 candidates match was interesting in some way why is it was interesting in some way why is it was interesting in some way why is it interesting to you interesting to you interesting to you i'm move 45 i'm looking at some notes i'm move 45 i'm looking at some notes i'm move 45 i'm looking at some notes this is with the bishop e3 i think i this is with the bishop e3 i think i this is with the bishop e3 i think i know which one you're talking about um know which one you're talking about um know which one you're talking about um it's it's it's i wouldn't say i wouldn't say i wouldn't say a lot of these games on these lists i a lot of these games on these lists i a lot of these games on these lists i think are really great combinations that think are really great combinations that think are really great combinations that that that that when tactics come into play which is when tactics come into play which is when tactics come into play which is what we're talking about but they're what we're talking about but they're what we're talking about but they're very good at exemplifying lessons very good at exemplifying lessons very good at exemplifying lessons this is why you study famous games so this is why you study famous games so this is why you study famous games so you can apply these lessons to your own you can apply these lessons to your own you can apply these lessons to your own games and i think the main takeaway for games and i think the main takeaway for games and i think the main takeaway for this one was they were punishing their this one was they were punishing their this one was they were punishing their opponent from steering away from opening opponent from steering away from opening opponent from steering away from opening principles which is something that we principles which is something that we principles which is something that we learned a little earlier learned a little earlier learned a little earlier where he delayed the development of his where he delayed the development of his where he delayed the development of his king and put his queen out a little bit king and put his queen out a little bit king and put his queen out a little bit too exposed so bobby fischer immediately too exposed so bobby fischer immediately too exposed so bobby fischer immediately punished that and then there was just punished that and then there was just punished that and then there was just like a beautiful combination where it like a beautiful combination where it like a beautiful combination where it was like a was like a was like a 12 in a row perfect moves which was a 12 in a row perfect moves which was a 12 in a row perfect moves which was a tactic just winning the game but it only tactic just winning the game but it only tactic just winning the game but it only came from punishing those mistakes the came from punishing those mistakes the came from punishing those mistakes the mistake being bringing the queen out mistake being bringing the queen out mistake being bringing the queen out bringing the queen out and yeah not bringing the queen out and yeah not bringing the queen out and yeah not castling your king right away castling your king right away castling your king right away and these were just like opening and these were just like opening and these were just like opening principles that now they're written in principles that now they're written in principles that now they're written in books but but for books you would study books but but for books you would study books but but for books you would study these principles by studying games and also and also i'm looking at some notes his dominance

i'm looking at some notes his dominance i'm looking at some notes his dominance during the candidates tournament was during the candidates tournament was during the candidates tournament was unprecedented unprecedented unprecedented he swept two top grand masters i mean he swept two top grand masters i mean he swept two top grand masters i mean that guy's meteor cries is incredible that guy's meteor cries is incredible that guy's meteor cries is incredible sad that i think at whatever in his 20s sad that i think at whatever in his 20s sad that i think at whatever in his 20s he then quit chess he then quit chess he then quit chess one has to wonder what one has to wonder what one has to wonder what where he could have gone where he could have gone where he could have gone yeah it is sad that yeah it is sad that yeah it is sad that we lost such a brilliant mind so early we lost such a brilliant mind so early we lost such a brilliant mind so early on and it's also sad i think kind of on and it's also sad i think kind of on and it's also sad i think kind of what ended up happening in his life and what ended up happening in his life and what ended up happening in his life and the slowly going crazier is there some the slowly going crazier is there some the slowly going crazier is there some aspect of chess that aspect of chess that aspect of chess that opens the door to crazy opens the door to crazy opens the door to crazy like like how challenging it is on you like like how challenging it is on you like like how challenging it is on you the stress the anxiety of it the stress the anxiety of it the stress the anxiety of it the isolation and being isolation yeah the isolation and being isolation yeah the isolation and being isolation yeah this is a very lonely sport it is even this is a very lonely sport it is even this is a very lonely sport it is even to you guys since you both play it it's to you guys since you both play it it's to you guys since you both play it it's still lonely the experience of it it was still lonely the experience of it it was still lonely the experience of it it was when i was competing a lot i think the when i was competing a lot i think the when i was competing a lot i think the crazy part of it for me was how obsessed crazy part of it for me was how obsessed crazy part of it for me was how obsessed you can get about a board game where you can get about a board game where you can get about a board game where you're optimizing your entire life to you're optimizing your entire life to you're optimizing your entire life to beat another person at you know pushing beat another person at you know pushing beat another person at you know pushing wooden pieces across the board and it wooden pieces across the board and it wooden pieces across the board and it doesn't necessarily translate to other doesn't necessarily translate to other doesn't necessarily translate to other things and the fact that so many people things and the fact that so many people things and the fact that so many people spend so much of their life on it but spend so much of their life on it but spend so much of their life on it but you can also spend so much of your life you can also spend so much of your life you can also spend so much of your life because it's so deep and so interesting because it's so deep and so interesting because it's so deep and so interesting and i mean i've definitely experienced and i mean i've definitely experienced and i mean i've definitely experienced moments where moments where moments where i didn't want to do anything but chess i didn't want to do anything but chess i didn't want to do anything but chess and i had that before and i had that before and i had that before i went to college where i just wanted to i went to college where i just wanted to i went to college where i just wanted to take a gap year and focus on chess take a gap year and focus on chess take a gap year and focus on chess because

because because i still i went to high school we moved a i still i went to high school we moved a i still i went to high school we moved a lot there was always other things going lot there was always other things going lot there was always other things going on so i felt like i could never really on so i felt like i could never really on so i felt like i could never really focus on chess focus on chess focus on chess and the one time i could by taking a gap and the one time i could by taking a gap and the one time i could by taking a gap year i ended up not doing because my year i ended up not doing because my year i ended up not doing because my parents really wanted me to go to parents really wanted me to go to parents really wanted me to go to university right away but i think maybe university right away but i think maybe university right away but i think maybe if i had taken that gap year i don't if i had taken that gap year i don't if i had taken that gap year i don't know if i would have gone back to school know if i would have gone back to school know if i would have gone back to school so maybe it wasn't a bad thing i also so maybe it wasn't a bad thing i also so maybe it wasn't a bad thing i also say that's pretty universal i think if say that's pretty universal i think if say that's pretty universal i think if you want to be that the best at anything you want to be that the best at anything you want to be that the best at anything you do or any sport you have to be that you do or any sport you have to be that you do or any sport you have to be that level of obsessed so i don't know if level of obsessed so i don't know if level of obsessed so i don't know if that's only chess that's only chess that's only chess well some things some obsessions are well some things some obsessions are well some things some obsessions are more transferable to a balanced social more transferable to a balanced social more transferable to a balanced social life life life that is like healthy development yeah that is like healthy development yeah that is like healthy development yeah chess is a lot less social than most chess is a lot less social than most chess is a lot less social than most other sports yeah there's something other sports yeah there's something other sports yeah there's something deeply isolating about this game i mean deeply isolating about this game i mean deeply isolating about this game i mean the the great chess players i've met i the the great chess players i've met i the the great chess players i've met i mean they mean they mean they it's like it's really competitive too it's like it's really competitive too it's like it's really competitive too and there's and there's and there's something that something that something that you're almost non-stop you're almost non-stop you're almost non-stop paranoid about paranoid about paranoid about blundering blundering blundering at every level and that develops a at every level and that develops a at every level and that develops a person who's really anxious about losing person who's really anxious about losing person who's really anxious about losing versus someone who like deeply enjoys versus someone who like deeply enjoys versus someone who like deeply enjoys perfection or winning and so on it's perfection or winning and so on it's perfection or winning and so on it's just this constant paranoia about losing just this constant paranoia about losing just this constant paranoia about losing maybe i'm like misinterpreting it but um maybe i'm like misinterpreting it but um maybe i'm like misinterpreting it but um that gets that that creates a huge that gets that that creates a huge that gets that that creates a huge amount of stress amount of stress amount of stress over like thousands of games over like thousands of games over like thousands of games especially in a young person especially in a young person especially in a young person and and and that blundering is such a painful that blundering is such a painful that blundering is such a painful experience because experience because experience because you could be playing a game that you've you could be playing a game that you've you could be playing a game that you've played for five six hours and you have

played for five six hours and you have played for five six hours and you have one lapse in focus and you blunder and one lapse in focus and you blunder and one lapse in focus and you blunder and you throw the entire game away and you throw the entire game away and you throw the entire game away and sometimes not just the entire game but sometimes not just the entire game but sometimes not just the entire game but the entire tournament now you can't the entire tournament now you can't the entire tournament now you can't place or do anything anymore so you just place or do anything anymore so you just place or do anything anymore so you just feel those mistakes so strongly yeah feel those mistakes so strongly yeah feel those mistakes so strongly yeah there's no one to blame but yourself there's no one to blame but yourself there's no one to blame but yourself are you as hard on yourself have you are you as hard on yourself have you are you as hard on yourself have you have you been have you been have you been about losing like before you became about losing like before you became about losing like before you became super famous for streaming where you super famous for streaming where you super famous for streaming where you could be like well fuck this at least i could be like well fuck this at least i could be like well fuck this at least i can can can i can so i was really hard on myself and i can so i was really hard on myself and i can so i was really hard on myself and i went to play a tournament in canada to i went to play a tournament in canada to i went to play a tournament in canada to try to qualify for the olympiad team try to qualify for the olympiad team try to qualify for the olympiad team and and and i was like well i'm an adult now i'm not i was like well i'm an adult now i'm not i was like well i'm an adult now i'm not gonna feel emotional if i lose and then gonna feel emotional if i lose and then gonna feel emotional if i lose and then i got there on the first day i think i i got there on the first day i think i i got there on the first day i think i was ranked like fourth in canada for for was ranked like fourth in canada for for was ranked like fourth in canada for for females females females um and how long ago was this this was um and how long ago was this this was um and how long ago was this this was like uh earlier in the year actually like uh earlier in the year actually like uh earlier in the year actually and i go and i lose to somebody lower and i go and i lose to somebody lower and i go and i lose to somebody lower rated on the first day and i think it rated on the first day and i think it rated on the first day and i think it was because i had blundered and i went was because i had blundered and i went was because i had blundered and i went back to my room and i was like i am not back to my room and i was like i am not back to my room and i was like i am not an adult i'm not eating i'm not leaving an adult i'm not eating i'm not leaving an adult i'm not eating i'm not leaving this room i feel terrible and i know i this room i feel terrible and i know i this room i feel terrible and i know i shouldn't but it just cuts so deep um shouldn't but it just cuts so deep um shouldn't but it just cuts so deep um and then i actually ended up qualifying and then i actually ended up qualifying and then i actually ended up qualifying for the olympiad team but i didn't want for the olympiad team but i didn't want for the olympiad team but i didn't want to play because i didn't have enough to play because i didn't have enough to play because i didn't have enough time to train and the losses are so time to train and the losses are so time to train and the losses are so painful that i was like it's not worth painful that i was like it's not worth painful that i was like it's not worth it it it yeah it's in high school and growing up yeah it's in high school and growing up yeah it's in high school and growing up i was i just remember weekends and i i i was i just remember weekends and i i i was i just remember weekends and i i think being competitive in any sport think being competitive in any sport think being competitive in any sport again probably people relate to this again probably people relate to this again probably people relate to this versus like spending weekends crying and versus like spending weekends crying and versus like spending weekends crying and even like alex said like punishing

even like alex said like punishing even like alex said like punishing yourself because you're disappointed in yourself because you're disappointed in yourself because you're disappointed in yourself because you fight so hard and yourself because you fight so hard and yourself because you fight so hard and you prepare and you study and you're you prepare and you study and you're you prepare and you study and you're like oh like oh like oh i i i yeah but that's once again on the right yeah but that's once again on the right yeah but that's once again on the right side though when side though when side though when you're studying so hard and after like a you're studying so hard and after like a you're studying so hard and after like a four hour game and you actually are on four hour game and you actually are on four hour game and you actually are on the opposite end and you win you feel the opposite end and you win you feel the opposite end and you win you feel like such a huge rush of dopamine and like such a huge rush of dopamine and like such a huge rush of dopamine and serotonin and you're like on a high from serotonin and you're like on a high from serotonin and you're like on a high from the wind so there's also plus sides or the wind so there's also plus sides or the wind so there's also plus sides or you can turn this around but yeah like you can turn this around but yeah like you can turn this around but yeah like alex said like losing after preparing alex said like losing after preparing alex said like losing after preparing for something and fighting on hours and for something and fighting on hours and for something and fighting on hours and hours is the worst feeling in the world hours is the worst feeling in the world hours is the worst feeling in the world did you ever get anything like that with did you ever get anything like that with did you ever get anything like that with martial arts martial arts martial arts yeah so you know wrestling i wrestled yeah so you know wrestling i wrestled yeah so you know wrestling i wrestled all through high school in middle school all through high school in middle school all through high school in middle school definitely so it's an individual sport i definitely so it's an individual sport i definitely so it's an individual sport i did a lot of individual sport tennis did a lot of individual sport tennis did a lot of individual sport tennis those kinds of things those kinds of things those kinds of things but i think even with wrestling and but i think even with wrestling and but i think even with wrestling and tennis you're still on a team right you tennis you're still on a team right you tennis you're still on a team right you can still like can still like can still like there's still a camaraderie there i feel there's still a camaraderie there i feel there's still a camaraderie there i feel like with chess especially go on your like with chess especially go on your like with chess especially go on your own with the tournaments like it you own with the tournaments like it you own with the tournaments like it you really are alone but i i mean i always really are alone but i i mean i always really are alone but i i mean i always personally just had us like a very personally just had us like a very personally just had us like a very self-critical mind in general i would self-critical mind in general i would self-critical mind in general i would not that's one of the reasons i decided not that's one of the reasons i decided not that's one of the reasons i decided not to play chess not to play chess not to play chess because uh i think when i was really because uh i think when i was really because uh i think when i was really young i met young i met young i met somebody uh somebody uh somebody uh who was able to play blindfold chess who was able to play blindfold chess who was able to play blindfold chess yeah they were teaching me they were yeah they were teaching me they were yeah they were teaching me they were laying in there on the couch trash laying in there on the couch trash laying in there on the couch trash drinking and smoking drinking and smoking drinking and smoking and they were sounds like a russian yeah and they were sounds like a russian yeah and they were sounds like a russian yeah exactly um there are now a faculty exactly um there are now a faculty exactly um there are now a faculty somewhere in the united states i forget somewhere in the united states i forget somewhere in the united states i forget where but where but where but he um

he um he um making jokes talking to others and he making jokes talking to others and he making jokes talking to others and he would move the pieces would move the pieces would move the pieces like he would yell across the room like he would yell across the room like he would yell across the room and i remember and i remember and i remember thinking that thinking that thinking that if a person is able to do that if a person is able to do that if a person is able to do that then that kind of world you can live in then that kind of world you can live in then that kind of world you can live in inside your mind that becomes the chess inside your mind that becomes the chess inside your mind that becomes the chess board to me that meant like the chess board to me that meant like the chess board to me that meant like the chess board is not just out here it could be board is not just out here it could be board is not just out here it could be in here and you could do these beauty in here and you could do these beauty in here and you could do these beauty you can create these beautiful patterns you can create these beautiful patterns you can create these beautiful patterns in your mind in your mind in your mind i thought like i thought like i thought like i i i had such a strong pull towards that had such a strong pull towards that had such a strong pull towards that or where i had to decide either i'm or where i had to decide either i'm or where i had to decide either i'm gonna dedicate everything to this gonna dedicate everything to this gonna dedicate everything to this or not or not or not uh you can't do half-assed and then i uh you can't do half-assed and then i uh you can't do half-assed and then i that's when i decided that's when i decided that's when i decided um to walk away from it because i had so um to walk away from it because i had so um to walk away from it because i had so much other beautiful things in my life i much other beautiful things in my life i much other beautiful things in my life i loved mathematics i loved just loved mathematics i loved just loved mathematics i loved just everything was beautiful to me i thought everything was beautiful to me i thought everything was beautiful to me i thought chess chess chess would pull me all in would pull me all in would pull me all in and and and there was nothing like it i think in my there was nothing like it i think in my there was nothing like it i think in my whole life since then i think it's such whole life since then i think it's such whole life since then i think it's such a dangerous addiction a dangerous addiction a dangerous addiction it's such a beautiful addiction but it's it's such a beautiful addiction but it's it's such a beautiful addiction but it's a dangerous one depending on what your a dangerous one depending on what your a dangerous one depending on what your mind is like it reminds me of something mind is like it reminds me of something mind is like it reminds me of something i thought of i thought of i thought of before i stopped competing as much and before i stopped competing as much and before i stopped competing as much and i'd look at people and think i'd look at people and think i'd look at people and think imagine being imagine being imagine being so intelligent that you could become a so intelligent that you could become a so intelligent that you could become a grand master and yet only spending the grand master and yet only spending the grand master and yet only spending the rest of your life being a grandmaster rest of your life being a grandmaster rest of your life being a grandmaster because it's one of those things where because it's one of those things where because it's one of those things where it does require a lot of mental power it does require a lot of mental power it does require a lot of mental power but by doing chess you're not going to but by doing chess you're not going to but by doing chess you're not going to be able to explore other subjects deeply be able to explore other subjects deeply be able to explore other subjects deeply yeah and not in a way that is is bad

yeah and not in a way that is is bad yeah and not in a way that is is bad necessarily more in admiration and necessarily more in admiration and necessarily more in admiration and wondering what else could have been wondering what else could have been wondering what else could have been because i've just seen people get to because i've just seen people get to because i've just seen people get to these levels of obsession where it's all these levels of obsession where it's all these levels of obsession where it's all they want to do and they're grandmasters they want to do and they're grandmasters they want to do and they're grandmasters but they're not even top players so but they're not even top players so but they're not even top players so they're never going to make a living out they're never going to make a living out they're never going to make a living out of it they'll make like maybe 30 40k of it they'll make like maybe 30 40k of it they'll make like maybe 30 40k your max they can't even focus on their your max they can't even focus on their your max they can't even focus on their competitive chess because they have to competitive chess because they have to competitive chess because they have to supplement it by you know teaching and supplement it by you know teaching and supplement it by you know teaching and doing things they don't like and it's doing things they don't like and it's doing things they don't like and it's just because of how strong of an just because of how strong of an just because of how strong of an obsession it can be because it truly is obsession it can be because it truly is obsession it can be because it truly is very intellectually rewarding very intellectually rewarding very intellectually rewarding and i think that's what people are and i think that's what people are and i think that's what people are addicted to and the self-improvement but addicted to and the self-improvement but addicted to and the self-improvement but you can get that from a lot of other you can get that from a lot of other you can get that from a lot of other things as well things as well things as well well i think for me what i was inspired well i think for me what i was inspired well i think for me what i was inspired by that stuck with me is that by that stuck with me is that by that stuck with me is that a human being could be a human being could be a human being could be so good so good so good at at at one thing one thing one thing right to me that person on the college right to me that person on the college right to me that person on the college drinking so on i drinking so on i drinking so on i i assumed he was the best chess player i assumed he was the best chess player i assumed he was the best chess player in the world like that to be able to in the world like that to be able to in the world like that to be able to play inside your head right play inside your head right play inside your head right uh uh uh it just felt like a feat that's it just felt like a feat that's it just felt like a feat that's incredible and so i incredible and so i incredible and so i fell in love with the idea that i hope fell in love with the idea that i hope fell in love with the idea that i hope to be something like that in my life at to be something like that in my life at to be something like that in my life at something it's it would be pretty cool something it's it would be pretty cool something it's it would be pretty cool to be really good at one thing and like to be really good at one thing and like to be really good at one thing and like life in some sense is a search for the life in some sense is a search for the life in some sense is a search for the things things things that you could be that good at i didn't that you could be that good at i didn't that you could be that good at i didn't even think about like how much money even think about like how much money even think about like how much money does it make or any of that does it make or any of that does it make or any of that is can i fall in love with something is can i fall in love with something is can i fall in love with something and make it a life pursuit where i can and make it a life pursuit where i can and make it a life pursuit where i can be damn good at it and the being damn be damn good at it and the being damn be damn good at it and the being damn good at it good at it good at it is the source of enjoyment not is the source of enjoyment not is the source of enjoyment not not like um not like um not like um not to win because you want to win a

not to win because you want to win a not to win because you want to win a tournament or win because tournament or win because tournament or win because uh uh uh like you just want to be better somebody like you just want to be better somebody like you just want to be better somebody else no it's for the beauty of the game else no it's for the beauty of the game else no it's for the beauty of the game itself or the beauty of the activity itself or the beauty of the activity itself or the beauty of the activity itself and then you realize that that's itself and then you realize that that's itself and then you realize that that's one of the compelling things about chess one of the compelling things about chess one of the compelling things about chess it is a game with rules and you can win it is a game with rules and you can win it is a game with rules and you can win if you want to be really damn good in if you want to be really damn good in if you want to be really damn good in some aspect of life like that some aspect of life like that some aspect of life like that it's it's it's it's harder it's harder it's harder it's a harder and weirder pursuit don't it's a harder and weirder pursuit don't it's a harder and weirder pursuit don't you feel like you kind of did that with you feel like you kind of did that with you feel like you kind of did that with computer science or ai related things computer science or ai related things computer science or ai related things like getting that level of like getting that level of like getting that level of damn good damn good damn good that's one of the cool things about that's one of the cool things about that's one of the cool things about ai and ai and ai and robotics or intellectual pursuits or robotics or intellectual pursuits or robotics or intellectual pursuits or scientific pursuits is you can spend scientific pursuits is you can spend scientific pursuits is you can spend until you're 80 doing it so i'm in the until you're 80 doing it so i'm in the until you're 80 doing it so i'm in the early days of that one of the thing early days of that one of the thing early days of that one of the thing reasons i came to texas reasons i came to texas reasons i came to texas one of the reasons one of the reasons one of the reasons i didn't want to pursue an academic i didn't want to pursue an academic i didn't want to pursue an academic career at mit career at mit career at mit is i want to build is i want to build is i want to build a company a company a company and so that i'm in the early days of and so that i'm in the early days of and so that i'm in the early days of that ai company and so it's an open that ai company and so it's an open that ai company and so it's an open world to see if i'm actually going to be world to see if i'm actually going to be world to see if i'm actually going to be good at it but the thing that's good at it but the thing that's good at it but the thing that's there there there that i've been cognizant of my whole that i've been cognizant of my whole that i've been cognizant of my whole life is that i have a passion for it life is that i have a passion for it life is that i have a passion for it something within me something within me something within me draws me to that thing and you have to draws me to that thing and you have to draws me to that thing and you have to listen to that listen to that listen to that to that voice so with chess to that voice so with chess to that voice so with chess you're fucked unless you like early on you're fucked unless you like early on you're fucked unless you like early on are really training really hard are really training really hard are really training really hard i think life is more forgiving i think life is more forgiving i think life is more forgiving you can be you can be world-class at a you can be you can be world-class at a you can be you can be world-class at a thing after thing after thing after after making a lot of mistakes

after making a lot of mistakes after making a lot of mistakes and after spending the first and after spending the first and after spending the first few decades of your life doing something few decades of your life doing something few decades of your life doing something completely different in chess it's like completely different in chess it's like completely different in chess it's like um it's like an olympic sport like um it's like an olympic sport like um it's like an olympic sport like there's no there's no there's no perfection is a requirement as a perfection is a requirement as a perfection is a requirement as a necessity necessity necessity what do you think is that pursuit for what do you think is that pursuit for what do you think is that pursuit for you you you like why did you decide to stream like why did you decide to stream like why did you decide to stream what what drew you i like these what what drew you i like these what what drew you i like these questions that were really getting deep questions that were really getting deep questions that were really getting deep yeah this is like a therapy session i yeah this is like a therapy session i yeah this is like a therapy session i mean what um isn't it terrifying to be mean what um isn't it terrifying to be mean what um isn't it terrifying to be in front of a camera in front of a camera in front of a camera well it's terrifying to be in front of well it's terrifying to be in front of well it's terrifying to be in front of five cameras instead of corrections six five cameras instead of corrections six five cameras instead of corrections six six okay more terrifying for me oh yeah six okay more terrifying for me oh yeah six okay more terrifying for me oh yeah try to remember try to remember try to remember if i actually turn them all i'm like i if i actually turn them all i'm like i if i actually turn them all i'm like i mentioned to you off mike i'm still mentioned to you off mike i'm still mentioned to you off mike i'm still suffering from a bit of ptsd after suffering from a bit of ptsd after suffering from a bit of ptsd after uh screwing up a recording of magnus i i uh screwing up a recording of magnus i i uh screwing up a recording of magnus i i uh he had to console me because uh he had to console me because uh he had to console me because that was the thing is i that was the thing is i that was the thing is i felt okay you want to you want to build felt okay you want to you want to build felt okay you want to you want to build robots robots robots if you can't get a camera to even run if you can't get a camera to even run if you can't get a camera to even run correctly correctly correctly how are you going to do anything else in how are you going to do anything else in how are you going to do anything else in life oh no don't let it spiral like that life oh no don't let it spiral like that life oh no don't let it spiral like that it was it was spiraling hard yeah and i it was it was spiraling hard yeah and i it was it was spiraling hard yeah and i was just laying there and just just was just laying there and just just was just laying there and just just feeling sorry for myself but i think feeling sorry for myself but i think feeling sorry for myself but i think that feeling by the way that feeling by the way that feeling by the way and a small tangent is really useful and a small tangent is really useful and a small tangent is really useful like yeah i feel like a lot of growing like yeah i feel like a lot of growing like yeah i feel like a lot of growing happens when you feel shitty as long happens when you feel shitty as long happens when you feel shitty as long as long as you can get out of it like as long as you can get out of it like as long as you can get out of it like don't let it spiral like indefinitely don't let it spiral like indefinitely don't let it spiral like indefinitely but just feeling really really shitty but just feeling really really shitty but just feeling really really shitty about everything in my life like i was

about everything in my life like i was about everything in my life like i was having an existential crisis like how i having an existential crisis like how i having an existential crisis like how i how will i be able to do anything at all how will i be able to do anything at all how will i be able to do anything at all like this you're a giant failure all like this you're a giant failure all like this you're a giant failure all those kinds of negative voices those kinds of negative voices those kinds of negative voices um but i think i made some good um but i think i made some good um but i think i made some good decisions in the in the week after that decisions in the in the week after that decisions in the in the week after that do you think you couldn't have made do you think you couldn't have made do you think you couldn't have made those decisions if you were less hard on those decisions if you were less hard on those decisions if you were less hard on yourself yourself yourself me personally me personally me personally no i'm too lazy no i'm too lazy no i'm too lazy okay so you really need to be angry at okay so you really need to be angry at okay so you really need to be angry at yourself enough to go and do whatever yourself enough to go and do whatever yourself enough to go and do whatever yeah it's not even angry it's just upset yeah it's not even angry it's just upset yeah it's not even angry it's just upset of being self-critical like of being self-critical like of being self-critical like also for me personally because i don't also for me personally because i don't also for me personally because i don't have have have proclivities for depression proclivities for depression proclivities for depression i i i have a lot more uh room to feel have a lot more uh room to feel have a lot more uh room to feel extremely shitty about myself extremely shitty about myself extremely shitty about myself uh so uh so uh so if you if you're somebody that can get if you if you're somebody that can get if you if you're somebody that can get stuck in that place like clinically stuck in that place like clinically stuck in that place like clinically depressed you have to be really really depressed you have to be really really depressed you have to be really really careful you have to notice the triggers careful you have to notice the triggers careful you have to notice the triggers you don't want to get into that place you don't want to get into that place you don't want to get into that place but for me but for me but for me just looking empirically feeling shitty just looking empirically feeling shitty just looking empirically feeling shitty has always been has always been has always been productive productive productive like it makes me long-term happier like it makes me long-term happier like it makes me long-term happier ultimately it makes me more grateful to ultimately it makes me more grateful to ultimately it makes me more grateful to be alive it helps me grow all those be alive it helps me grow all those be alive it helps me grow all those kinds of things so i kind of kinds of things so i kind of kinds of things so i kind of uh uh uh embrace it otherwise i feel like i will embrace it otherwise i feel like i will embrace it otherwise i feel like i will never do anything i have to feel shitty never do anything i have to feel shitty never do anything i have to feel shitty but that's not a thing but that's not a thing but that's not a thing i prescribed to others there's a there's i prescribed to others there's a there's i prescribed to others there's a there's a famous professor at mit his name is a famous professor at mit his name is a famous professor at mit his name is marvin minsky marvin minsky marvin minsky and uh when he was giving advice about and uh when he was giving advice about and uh when he was giving advice about like to the students like to the students like to the students he said the secret to my success was

he said the secret to my success was he said the secret to my success was that i always hated everything that i always hated everything that i always hated everything uh i did in in the past uh i did in in the past uh i did in in the past so always sort of being self-critical so always sort of being self-critical so always sort of being self-critical about everything you've accomplished about everything you've accomplished about everything you've accomplished never really take a moment of gratitude never really take a moment of gratitude never really take a moment of gratitude and i think for a lot of people that and i think for a lot of people that and i think for a lot of people that hear that that's not good you should be hear that that's not good you should be hear that that's not good you should be you should like take a pause and be you should like take a pause and be you should like take a pause and be grateful but it really worked for him so grateful but it really worked for him so grateful but it really worked for him so you know it's a choice you have to make you know it's a choice you have to make you know it's a choice you have to make it reminds me of the quote be happy but it reminds me of the quote be happy but it reminds me of the quote be happy but never satisfied never satisfied never satisfied where where where you can have a positive spin and still you can have a positive spin and still you can have a positive spin and still want to improve yourself want to improve yourself want to improve yourself but yeah um but yeah um but yeah um like uh when did you decide to take a like uh when did you decide to take a like uh when did you decide to take a step in the spotlight that terrifying step in the spotlight that terrifying step in the spotlight that terrifying spotlight of the internet spotlight of the internet spotlight of the internet it was actually my senior year of it was actually my senior year of it was actually my senior year of college and i was really busy with work college and i was really busy with work college and i was really busy with work and school and school and school and chess was kind of like this lost and chess was kind of like this lost and chess was kind of like this lost love and the interesting thing is that love and the interesting thing is that love and the interesting thing is that the longer i don't play chess the more i the longer i don't play chess the more i the longer i don't play chess the more i kind of miss playing it casually and kind of miss playing it casually and kind of miss playing it casually and enjoy it more because then i start enjoy it more because then i start enjoy it more because then i start looking at it with fresh eyes looking at it with fresh eyes looking at it with fresh eyes but i didn't have time to play but i didn't have time to play but i didn't have time to play tournaments so tournaments so tournaments so i started streaming online because it i started streaming online because it i started streaming online because it was more social than just playing was more social than just playing was more social than just playing strangers on the internet without strangers on the internet without strangers on the internet without knowing anything about who they are knowing anything about who they are knowing anything about who they are and and and i started slowly growing a community and i started slowly growing a community and i started slowly growing a community and got in touch with chess.com pretty got in touch with chess.com pretty got in touch with chess.com pretty quickly too so then it was this hobby quickly too so then it was this hobby quickly too so then it was this hobby that i would do once a week every that i would do once a week every that i would do once a week every thursday at 8pm and it was one of the thursday at 8pm and it was one of the thursday at 8pm and it was one of the things that brought me a lot of joy and things that brought me a lot of joy and things that brought me a lot of joy and actually i actually i actually i speaking of depression did struggle for

speaking of depression did struggle for speaking of depression did struggle for with you know at least 10 years of my with you know at least 10 years of my with you know at least 10 years of my life and it was one of those things life and it was one of those things life and it was one of those things where where where chess and streaming was such a chess and streaming was such a chess and streaming was such a distraction and it brought me such great distraction and it brought me such great distraction and it brought me such great joy joy joy that i just kept doing it because i that i just kept doing it because i that i just kept doing it because i really really liked it um and then really really liked it um and then really really liked it um and then i was working on something that didn't i was working on something that didn't i was working on something that didn't pan out and decided to go and take a pan out and decided to go and take a pan out and decided to go and take a risk and just stream full-time which risk and just stream full-time which risk and just stream full-time which you know seemed a little bit weird at you know seemed a little bit weird at you know seemed a little bit weird at the moment but was that terrifying that the moment but was that terrifying that the moment but was that terrifying that leap leap leap it was terrifying but i had taken so it was terrifying but i had taken so it was terrifying but i had taken so many terrifying leaps in the past and many terrifying leaps in the past and many terrifying leaps in the past and they didn't and you know the last two they didn't and you know the last two they didn't and you know the last two hadn't worked out but i was like well hadn't worked out but i was like well hadn't worked out but i was like well i'll get it eventually i'll get it eventually i'll get it eventually so somehow having failed before and so somehow having failed before and so somehow having failed before and going through failure and knowing that going through failure and knowing that going through failure and knowing that it'll be okay it'll be okay it'll be okay made me more likely to just try made me more likely to just try made me more likely to just try something that was a very very weird job something that was a very very weird job something that was a very very weird job goodbye camera i thought it died yeah goodbye camera i thought it died yeah goodbye camera i thought it died yeah the the camera that we don't need it oh the the camera that we don't need it oh the the camera that we don't need it oh but one of the things luckily we have but one of the things luckily we have but one of the things luckily we have another five yeah i know another five yeah i know another five yeah i know like this is where this triggers the like this is where this triggers the like this is where this triggers the spiral alexis spiral alexis spiral alexis it's still it's still somehow awake um is there advice you can give about is there advice you can give about the dark places you've gone in your mind the dark places you've gone in your mind the dark places you've gone in your mind the depression you suffered from how to the depression you suffered from how to the depression you suffered from how to get out from your own from your own get out from your own from your own get out from your own from your own story story story whenever i go to those really dark whenever i go to those really dark whenever i go to those really dark places the scariest thing is that it places the scariest thing is that it places the scariest thing is that it feels like i will never get rid of this feels like i will never get rid of this feels like i will never get rid of this feeling and it is very overwhelming

and and i just have to kind of i just have to kind of i just have to kind of look back over look back over look back over time spans and remember that every time spans and remember that every time spans and remember that every single time i have got through it and single time i have got through it and single time i have got through it and remind myself that it is just temporary remind myself that it is just temporary remind myself that it is just temporary and that has been the most helpful thing and that has been the most helpful thing and that has been the most helpful thing for me because i just try to combat the for me because i just try to combat the for me because i just try to combat the scariest thing about it and then believe have faith that it's and then believe have faith that it's gonna gonna gonna like this will go away and take action like this will go away and take action like this will go away and take action obviously to make sure it goes away and obviously to make sure it goes away and obviously to make sure it goes away and i've also tried to spin it as depression i've also tried to spin it as depression i've also tried to spin it as depression is one of the hardest things i've had to is one of the hardest things i've had to is one of the hardest things i've had to deal with but also one of the biggest deal with but also one of the biggest deal with but also one of the biggest motivators because motivators because motivators because if i just am left with my own brain i if i just am left with my own brain i if i just am left with my own brain i get very depressed then i really like get very depressed then i really like get very depressed then i really like working or focusing on things so it working or focusing on things so it working or focusing on things so it actually pushed me to you know try to actually pushed me to you know try to actually pushed me to you know try to focus on school try to focus on chess focus on school try to focus on chess focus on school try to focus on chess focus on whatever i'm doing and also if focus on whatever i'm doing and also if focus on whatever i'm doing and also if i'm feeling really bad then there's i'm feeling really bad then there's i'm feeling really bad then there's probably something a little bit off and probably something a little bit off and probably something a little bit off and i use it as a signal and try to think of i use it as a signal and try to think of i use it as a signal and try to think of it as okay this is just a sign that it as okay this is just a sign that it as okay this is just a sign that there's things that could be improved there's things that could be improved there's things that could be improved for long term what about you andrea have for long term what about you andrea have for long term what about you andrea have you gone to dark places in your mind you gone to dark places in your mind you gone to dark places in your mind i'd say i i'd say i i'd say i my family like like i see alex going my family like like i see alex going my family like like i see alex going through this my mom also has very through this my mom also has very through this my mom also has very serious depression luckily i got the serious depression luckily i got the serious depression luckily i got the genes where i don't go through that genes where i don't go through that genes where i don't go through that serious serious serious level of depression that they do i say level of depression that they do i say level of depression that they do i say mine is much more temporarily so it's mine is much more temporarily so it's mine is much more temporarily so it's more similar to what what i was feeling more similar to what what i was feeling more similar to what what i was feeling when i was exactly feeling shitty here when i was exactly feeling shitty here when i was exactly feeling shitty here he is yes exactly where like but i know he is yes exactly where like but i know he is yes exactly where like but i know that it's not something that's clinical that it's not something that's clinical that it's not something that's clinical and that's and that's and that's just a just a just a genetic thing or a mental thing where as genetic thing or a mental thing where as genetic thing or a mental thing where as i know it's more serious for like my

i know it's more serious for like my i know it's more serious for like my family members um and i did relate a lot family members um and i did relate a lot family members um and i did relate a lot with you where you're saying where that with you where you're saying where that with you where you're saying where that really pushes you and i felt that a lot really pushes you and i felt that a lot really pushes you and i felt that a lot through content where you just kind of through content where you just kind of through content where you just kind of feel hopeless feel hopeless feel hopeless and kind of like an existential crisis and kind of like an existential crisis and kind of like an existential crisis where i don't like the content i'm doing where i don't like the content i'm doing where i don't like the content i'm doing and that's what pushes me to like okay and that's what pushes me to like okay and that's what pushes me to like okay you have no choice but to try something you have no choice but to try something you have no choice but to try something that now you're going to be passionate that now you're going to be passionate that now you're going to be passionate about because otherwise you're going to about because otherwise you're going to about because otherwise you're going to be stuck in this never-ending cycle um be stuck in this never-ending cycle um be stuck in this never-ending cycle um so it does it's short-term and then um so it does it's short-term and then um so it does it's short-term and then um it helps me come up with the things that it helps me come up with the things that it helps me come up with the things that i enjoy the most content-wise and it i enjoy the most content-wise and it i enjoy the most content-wise and it also long-term taught me just how to also long-term taught me just how to also long-term taught me just how to have a more balanced life like doing have a more balanced life like doing have a more balanced life like doing small things that make me happier on a small things that make me happier on a small things that make me happier on a daily basis to like working out to daily basis to like working out to daily basis to like working out to eating healthier which i notice when i eating healthier which i notice when i eating healthier which i notice when i don't do for weeks i just get a lot more don't do for weeks i just get a lot more don't do for weeks i just get a lot more depressed depressed depressed what has playing chess what has playing chess what has playing chess taught you about life taught you about life taught you about life has has has hasn't made you better at life in any hasn't made you better at life in any hasn't made you better at life in any kind of way or has it made you worse you kind of way or has it made you worse you kind of way or has it made you worse you know a lot of people kind of romanticize know a lot of people kind of romanticize know a lot of people kind of romanticize the idea that chess is kind of like life the idea that chess is kind of like life the idea that chess is kind of like life or life is kind of like chess or life is kind of like chess or life is kind of like chess and becoming better at making decisions and becoming better at making decisions and becoming better at making decisions on the chess board is going to make you on the chess board is going to make you on the chess board is going to make you better at making decisions in life is better at making decisions in life is better at making decisions in life is there some truth to that there some truth to that there some truth to that i always shy away from these comparisons i always shy away from these comparisons i always shy away from these comparisons with with with chess and life chess and life chess and life um um um because yeah it has both positives and because yeah it has both positives and because yeah it has both positives and negatives so one thing it really helps negatives so one thing it really helps negatives so one thing it really helps develop from an early age is having an develop from an early age is having an develop from an early age is having an analytical mind but then you could also analytical mind but then you could also analytical mind but then you could also get like paralysis of analysis where get like paralysis of analysis where get like paralysis of analysis where you've just thought of everything to you've just thought of everything to you've just thought of everything to death and you're moving too slowly when death and you're moving too slowly when death and you're moving too slowly when you just have to keep going forward you just have to keep going forward you just have to keep going forward because there's not a great path ahead

because there's not a great path ahead because there's not a great path ahead so it's more like exercising your brain so it's more like exercising your brain so it's more like exercising your brain and and and staying sharp and then also applying staying sharp and then also applying staying sharp and then also applying that to other things whereas if instead that to other things whereas if instead that to other things whereas if instead of playing chess or watching tv or of playing chess or watching tv or of playing chess or watching tv or something like that you'd probably end something like that you'd probably end something like that you'd probably end up being less sharp up being less sharp up being less sharp yeah i used to yeah i used to yeah i used to in high school i'd always preach like ah in high school i'd always preach like ah in high school i'd always preach like ah chess transfers for life skills at chess transfers for life skills at chess transfers for life skills at college i would teach college i would teach college i would teach i taught chess for juvenile department i taught chess for juvenile department i taught chess for juvenile department for special education school i had site for special education school i had site for special education school i had site studies in prisons where like oh playing studies in prisons where like oh playing studies in prisons where like oh playing chess helped them with x and for your chess helped them with x and for your chess helped them with x and for your kids it helps with teamwork and thinking kids it helps with teamwork and thinking kids it helps with teamwork and thinking over life choices and now that i'm older over life choices and now that i'm older over life choices and now that i'm older i don't believe in any of that bs but i don't believe in any of that bs but i don't believe in any of that bs but um i do think that the process of um i do think that the process of um i do think that the process of working really hard at something which working really hard at something which working really hard at something which takes really long to see results and you takes really long to see results and you takes really long to see results and you have to be really dedicated and like i have to be really dedicated and like i have to be really dedicated and like i remember in high school and in middle remember in high school and in middle remember in high school and in middle school well all my friends they were school well all my friends they were school well all my friends they were having fun on the weekends and i'd have having fun on the weekends and i'd have having fun on the weekends and i'd have to be there studying towers of chess a to be there studying towers of chess a to be there studying towers of chess a day and knowing one day will pay off but day and knowing one day will pay off but day and knowing one day will pay off but for like two three years nothing paid for like two three years nothing paid for like two three years nothing paid off kind of learning that type of off kind of learning that type of off kind of learning that type of patience with anything it's like you patience with anything it's like you patience with anything it's like you know like getting a real job i can't say know like getting a real job i can't say know like getting a real job i can't say i ever really worked a real job in my i ever really worked a real job in my i ever really worked a real job in my life since i went straight into life since i went straight into life since i went straight into streaming and i got to work for myself streaming and i got to work for myself streaming and i got to work for myself but i'd say it's but i'd say it's but i'd say it's what people go to college for like they what people go to college for like they what people go to college for like they learn how to live in the real world and learn how to live in the real world and learn how to live in the real world and i'd say that that's what chess taught me i'd say that that's what chess taught me i'd say that that's what chess taught me as a kid as a kid as a kid when you're streaming when you're when when you're streaming when you're when when you're streaming when you're when you're doing the the creative work do you're doing the the creative work do you're doing the the creative work do you feel lonely so a bunch of creators you feel lonely so a bunch of creators you feel lonely so a bunch of creators talk about sort of the talk about sort of the talk about sort of the it's it's counterintuitive because it's it's counterintuitive because it's it's counterintuitive because you're famous now

you're famous now you're famous now but it's you know but it's you know but it's you know sort of not quite but sort of not quite but sort of not quite but we're very lucky to have each other so we're very lucky to have each other so we're very lucky to have each other so is that the source of the the comfort is that the source of the the comfort is that the source of the the comfort and the and the and the like is there some sense where it's like is there some sense where it's like is there some sense where it's isolating isolating isolating to have these personalities they have to to have these personalities they have to to have these personalities they have to do to always be having fun being wild do to always be having fun being wild do to always be having fun being wild and so on and so on and so on or is it actually the opposite like is or is it actually the opposite like is or is it actually the opposite like is it a source of comfort to know that it a source of comfort to know that it a source of comfort to know that there's so many cool people out there there's so many cool people out there there's so many cool people out there that are giving you their love and that are giving you their love and that are giving you their love and it started as a source of comfort it started as a source of comfort it started as a source of comfort because it started with a very small because it started with a very small because it started with a very small community who would be something it community who would be something it community who would be something it would be around 200 to 300 viewers and would be around 200 to 300 viewers and would be around 200 to 300 viewers and you know only like 30 to 40 of them you know only like 30 to 40 of them you know only like 30 to 40 of them would actually chat actively so you felt would actually chat actively so you felt would actually chat actively so you felt like it was a community not an audience like it was a community not an audience like it was a community not an audience so you like knew them personally almost so you like knew them personally almost so you like knew them personally almost yeah exactly and it was people who were yeah exactly and it was people who were yeah exactly and it was people who were interested in chess um and i would interested in chess um and i would interested in chess um and i would really enjoy that and then as you know really enjoy that and then as you know really enjoy that and then as you know we started growing bigger the audience we started growing bigger the audience we started growing bigger the audience kind of changed where kind of changed where kind of changed where they're not there for you personally they're not there for you personally they're not there for you personally they're there while you're entertaining they're there while you're entertaining they're there while you're entertaining um and it um and it um and it changed for me and i ended up being a changed for me and i ended up being a changed for me and i ended up being a lot more self-conscious of things online lot more self-conscious of things online lot more self-conscious of things online and started even thinking of myself more and started even thinking of myself more and started even thinking of myself more like a product than a human being when like a product than a human being when like a product than a human being when i'm online because i had to brand yes i'm online because i had to brand yes i'm online because i had to brand yes exactly otherwise you just start taking exactly otherwise you just start taking exactly otherwise you just start taking everything personally that people everything personally that people everything personally that people comment about you and it's based off of comment about you and it's based off of comment about you and it's based off of very small very small very small i see so it was almost a kind of a i see so it was almost a kind of a i see so it was almost a kind of a defense mechanism exactly defense mechanism exactly defense mechanism exactly and it took time to get enough and it took time to get enough and it took time to get enough because even if you have tough skin because even if you have tough skin because even if you have tough skin eventually it gets to you when you're

eventually it gets to you when you're eventually it gets to you when you're online every single day listening to you online every single day listening to you online every single day listening to you know thousands of people's feedback on know thousands of people's feedback on know thousands of people's feedback on you you you i think the loneliest part of being i think the loneliest part of being i think the loneliest part of being creator is going through burnout which creator is going through burnout which creator is going through burnout which everyone is just it's bound to happen um everyone is just it's bound to happen um everyone is just it's bound to happen um which is why i think we're very lucky which is why i think we're very lucky which is why i think we're very lucky that we have each other because right that we have each other because right that we have each other because right it's a numbers game and you're viral and it's a numbers game and you're viral and it's a numbers game and you're viral and trendy at one point and then you have to trendy at one point and then you have to trendy at one point and then you have to fall and then there's months where fall and then there's months where fall and then there's months where you're just grinding and i just every you're just grinding and i just every you're just grinding and i just every day i'm like andrea we're relevant day i'm like andrea we're relevant day i'm like andrea we're relevant that's that's really like the worst part that's that's really like the worst part that's that's really like the worst part of being creative and figuring out how of being creative and figuring out how of being creative and figuring out how to get over that hump but makes me very to get over that hump but makes me very to get over that hump but makes me very grateful that i have my sister because i grateful that i have my sister because i grateful that i have my sister because i know that i'm not the only person going know that i'm not the only person going know that i'm not the only person going through it um and through it um and through it um and yeah i know that most of my creator yeah i know that most of my creator yeah i know that most of my creator friends feel very lonely in that process friends feel very lonely in that process friends feel very lonely in that process because they don't have someone who's because they don't have someone who's because they don't have someone who's their family and their business partner their family and their business partner their family and their business partner and they're working by each other side and they're working by each other side and they're working by each other side by side you kind of tie in your by side you kind of tie in your by side you kind of tie in your self-worth to your job and your content self-worth to your job and your content self-worth to your job and your content and maybe even more extremely than other and maybe even more extremely than other and maybe even more extremely than other jobs because you also are jobs because you also are jobs because you also are the entire company in the entire product the entire company in the entire product the entire company in the entire product so when things are going well or when so when things are going well or when so when things are going well or when things are not you just need to be things are not you just need to be things are not you just need to be careful to not reflect like oh i am careful to not reflect like oh i am careful to not reflect like oh i am doing bad i am better other than the doing bad i am better other than the doing bad i am better other than the trends have now changed there's outside trends have now changed there's outside trends have now changed there's outside things we're going to keep going and things we're going to keep going and things we're going to keep going and this is just the normal waves which is this is just the normal waves which is this is just the normal waves which is how we think about it now and also just how we think about it now and also just how we think about it now and also just about are we enjoying it this is this about are we enjoying it this is this about are we enjoying it this is this what we want to make but what we want to make but what we want to make but we were stuck in the the camp for a we were stuck in the the camp for a we were stuck in the the camp for a while when we while when we while when we 10xed our viewership um after the 10xed our viewership um after the 10xed our viewership um after the pandemic because people were home and pandemic because people were home and pandemic because people were home and playing chess and then of course that playing chess and then of course that playing chess and then of course that dropped by like 70 and then you see that dropped by like 70 and then you see that dropped by like 70 and then you see that and you're trying your best um and you

and you're trying your best um and you and you're trying your best um and you just kind of have to deal with it and be just kind of have to deal with it and be just kind of have to deal with it and be like okay i'm just gonna keep like okay i'm just gonna keep like okay i'm just gonna keep persevering and maybe it'll get better persevering and maybe it'll get better persevering and maybe it'll get better that's so fascinating i mean this is a that's so fascinating i mean this is a that's so fascinating i mean this is a struggle struggle struggle of sorts in the 21st century of sorts in the 21st century of sorts in the 21st century of like of like of like how to be an artist how to be a creator how to be an artist how to be a creator how to be an artist how to be a creator how to be an interesting mind how to be an interesting mind how to be an interesting mind in response to this algorithm i'm in response to this algorithm i'm in response to this algorithm i'm telling you turning off views and likes telling you turning off views and likes telling you turning off views and likes is really good i don't look at twitch is really good i don't look at twitch is really good i don't look at twitch views for that reason and i get obsessed views for that reason and i get obsessed views for that reason and i get obsessed with the numbers too and i know andrea with the numbers too and i know andrea with the numbers too and i know andrea does but for me does but for me does but for me what i try now is to be more focused in what i try now is to be more focused in what i try now is to be more focused in the moment but andreas somehow can do it the moment but andreas somehow can do it the moment but andreas somehow can do it even with the views even with the views even with the views so you just you get you have fun with it so you just you get you have fun with it so you just you get you have fun with it it's like ooh number one i'm too much of it's like ooh number one i'm too much of it's like ooh number one i'm too much of like a given to the temporary like a given to the temporary like a given to the temporary satisfaction like i like seeing i'd like satisfaction like i like seeing i'd like satisfaction like i like seeing i'd like knowing that if something happens right knowing that if something happens right knowing that if something happens right now viewership's going to boost by a now viewership's going to boost by a now viewership's going to boost by a couple hundred and seeing that i'm right couple hundred and seeing that i'm right couple hundred and seeing that i'm right of course but what about when the of course but what about when the of course but what about when the viewers started exactly well and i viewers started exactly well and i viewers started exactly well and i always like you just have this intuition always like you just have this intuition always like you just have this intuition now and but i think also the reason that now and but i think also the reason that now and but i think also the reason that it doesn't affect me so much is when we it doesn't affect me so much is when we it doesn't affect me so much is when we first started our content journey we first started our content journey we first started our content journey we were only twitch streamers and we our were only twitch streamers and we our were only twitch streamers and we our livelihood were based on twitch viewers livelihood were based on twitch viewers livelihood were based on twitch viewers but now like i've learned how to recycle but now like i've learned how to recycle but now like i've learned how to recycle that content into like youtube and that content into like youtube and that content into like youtube and shorts and other things where i know shorts and other things where i know shorts and other things where i know like okay if this stream does badly like okay if this stream does badly like okay if this stream does badly there's so many more things you can do there's so many more things you can do there's so many more things you can do that also just have a much larger output that also just have a much larger output that also just have a much larger output so it doesn't get to me as much as it so it doesn't get to me as much as it so it doesn't get to me as much as it did did did do you ever feel that with your podcast do you ever feel that with your podcast do you ever feel that with your podcast or do you feel like it's been authentic or do you feel like it's been authentic or do you feel like it's been authentic since the start no so since the start no so since the start no so there's there's a million things to say there's there's a million things to say there's there's a million things to say there so one there so one there so one is there's a reason

is there's a reason is there's a reason i stopped taking a salary at mit i stopped taking a salary at mit i stopped taking a salary at mit and moved to texas is i wanted my bank and moved to texas is i wanted my bank and moved to texas is i wanted my bank account to go to zero because i do my account to go to zero because i do my account to go to zero because i do my best with my back against the wall so best with my back against the wall so best with my back against the wall so one of the comforts i have is i don't one of the comforts i have is i don't one of the comforts i have is i don't care if this podcast is popular or not care if this podcast is popular or not care if this podcast is popular or not i wanted to not be popular so i don't i wanted to not be popular so i don't i wanted to not be popular so i don't want it to make money failing lex yeah i want it to make money failing lex yeah i want it to make money failing lex yeah i want i want to i mean i just do best want i want to i mean i just do best want i want to i mean i just do best when i'm um when i'm um when i'm um more desperate that's like one thing to more desperate that's like one thing to more desperate that's like one thing to say seems like a reoccurring theme with say seems like a reoccurring theme with say seems like a reoccurring theme with how you build up your greatest work how you build up your greatest work how you build up your greatest work which is honestly very respectable which is honestly very respectable which is honestly very respectable yeah so uh yeah so uh yeah so uh i thank you that's just like uh i would i thank you that's just like uh i would i thank you that's just like uh i would recommend it recommend it recommend it right thank you for finding it don't try right thank you for finding it don't try right thank you for finding it don't try it the silver lining for an unhealthy um it the silver lining for an unhealthy um it the silver lining for an unhealthy um mental state um mental state um mental state um but the other thing is i was very but the other thing is i was very but the other thing is i was very conscious just like with chess and those conscious just like with chess and those conscious just like with chess and those kinds of things kinds of things kinds of things that that that i love numbers and i i would be if i i love numbers and i i would be if i i love numbers and i i would be if i paid attention paid attention paid attention if i tried to be if i tried to be if i tried to be somebody somebody somebody at their best like a mr beast who at their best like a mr beast who at their best like a mr beast who uh really pays attention to numbers i uh really pays attention to numbers i uh really pays attention to numbers i would just not would just not would just not i'd be become destroyed by it i'd be become destroyed by it i'd be become destroyed by it the highs and lows of it and i just the highs and lows of it and i just the highs and lows of it and i just don't think i'll be creating the best don't think i'll be creating the best don't think i'll be creating the best work work work uh possible uh possible uh possible uh but uh but uh but one of the i mean they're one of the i mean they're one of the i mean they're one of the big benefits of a podcast one of the big benefits of a podcast one of the big benefits of a podcast it's listeners it's listeners it's listeners and there's an intimacy with the voice and there's an intimacy with the voice and there's an intimacy with the voice and i think and i think and i think that is much more stable that is much more stable that is much more stable and a deeper and more meaningful

and a deeper and more meaningful and a deeper and more meaningful connection than youtube youtube is a connection than youtube youtube is a connection than youtube youtube is a fickle fickle fickle mistress it's like it's a weird drug mistress it's like it's a weird drug mistress it's like it's a weird drug that like that like that like uh it really wants you very addicting uh it really wants you very addicting uh it really wants you very addicting feedback loops when you have a video feedback loops when you have a video feedback loops when you have a video that's number one out of ten yeah oh my that's number one out of ten yeah oh my that's number one out of ten yeah oh my god the the adrenaline you get and then god the the adrenaline you get and then god the the adrenaline you get and then the the thing i really don't like also the the thing i really don't like also the the thing i really don't like also is the world is the world is the world uh uh uh like will introduce you like will introduce you like will introduce you as a person that has a video on youtube as a person that has a video on youtube as a person that has a video on youtube with some x number of views like the with some x number of views like the with some x number of views like the world wants you to be addicted to these world wants you to be addicted to these world wants you to be addicted to these numbers numbers numbers because they associate it with having because they associate it with having because they associate it with having done a good job yeah because that's what done a good job yeah because that's what done a good job yeah because that's what people think views are even if it's not people think views are even if it's not people think views are even if it's not right and because and primarily because right and because and primarily because right and because and primarily because they don't have any other signal they don't have any other signal they don't have any other signal of what's a good job i think the much of what's a good job i think the much of what's a good job i think the much better signal is people that are close better signal is people that are close better signal is people that are close to you your family your colleagues that to you your family your colleagues that to you your family your colleagues that say wow that was cool i listened to that say wow that was cool i listened to that say wow that was cool i listened to that that was really i didn't know this this that was really i didn't know this this that was really i didn't know this this was really powerful this is really was really powerful this is really was really powerful this is really moving and so on moving and so on moving and so on but definitely i'm not terrified of but definitely i'm not terrified of but definitely i'm not terrified of numbers because i i feel like just like numbers because i i feel like just like numbers because i i feel like just like i said i said i said i'd rather be um i'd rather be um i'd rather be um i would rather be a stanley kubrick i would rather be a stanley kubrick i would rather be a stanley kubrick right you you'd rather create right you you'd rather create right you you'd rather create great great great art like art like art like um not to be pretentious but the best um not to be pretentious but the best um not to be pretentious but the best possible thing you can create whatever possible thing you can create whatever possible thing you can create whatever the beauty that's the capacity for the beauty that's the capacity for the beauty that's the capacity for creating beauty that's in you i would creating beauty that's in you i would creating beauty that's in you i would like to maximize that and i feel like like to maximize that and i feel like like to maximize that and i feel like for some people like mr beast i think for some people like mr beast i think for some people like mr beast i think those are perfectly aligned those are perfectly aligned those are perfectly aligned because he just loves the most epic because he just loves the most epic because he just loves the most epic thing possible but not for everybody i thing possible but not for everybody i thing possible but not for everybody i think there's a lot of people for whom

think there's a lot of people for whom think there's a lot of people for whom that's not perfectly aligned that's not perfectly aligned that's not perfectly aligned and so i'm definitely one of those and and so i'm definitely one of those and and so i'm definitely one of those and i'm still really confused why anybody i'm still really confused why anybody i'm still really confused why anybody listens to this anyway listens to this anyway listens to this anyway um um um but that's also something i guess you're but that's also something i guess you're but that's also something i guess you're trying to find trying to find trying to find trying to figure out i i get very afraid trying to figure out i i get very afraid trying to figure out i i get very afraid of ever becoming someone who just makes of ever becoming someone who just makes of ever becoming someone who just makes junk food content where you can't stop junk food content where you can't stop junk food content where you can't stop while you're in the moment and it has while you're in the moment and it has while you're in the moment and it has all of your attention but when you're all of your attention but when you're all of your attention but when you're done it didn't really bring any value to done it didn't really bring any value to done it didn't really bring any value to your life which is something that i your life which is something that i your life which is something that i think the algorithm still does really think the algorithm still does really think the algorithm still does really reward reward reward and making sure that as we are learning and making sure that as we are learning and making sure that as we are learning how to create better content it's still how to create better content it's still how to create better content it's still something that is going to be meaningful something that is going to be meaningful something that is going to be meaningful long term long term long term well ultimately well ultimately well ultimately you know you inspire a lot of young you know you inspire a lot of young you know you inspire a lot of young people people people uh this uh this uh this yeah those are the best when i get yeah those are the best when i get yeah those are the best when i get messages from people who are like i messages from people who are like i messages from people who are like i played you a year ago and my rating was played you a year ago and my rating was played you a year ago and my rating was 1400 and now i'm 1900 i'd like to 1400 and now i'm 1900 i'd like to 1400 and now i'm 1900 i'd like to challenge you again it's a 14 year old challenge you again it's a 14 year old challenge you again it's a 14 year old writing a former email those things are writing a former email those things are writing a former email those things are always very very fun to get and even always very very fun to get and even always very very fun to get and even just outside of chess it's just just outside of chess it's just just outside of chess it's just empowering to see and like for young empowering to see and like for young empowering to see and like for young women too to see that kind of thing and women too to see that kind of thing and women too to see that kind of thing and you guys are um being yourself you guys are um being yourself you guys are um being yourself and making money from being yourself and and making money from being yourself and and making money from being yourself and having fun and like growing as human having fun and like growing as human having fun and like growing as human beings beings beings which i think is really inspiring for which i think is really inspiring for which i think is really inspiring for people to see people to see people to see um so in that sense it's really um so in that sense it's really um so in that sense it's really rewarding and then like the way i think rewarding and then like the way i think rewarding and then like the way i think about it is um about it is um about it is um there is some benefit of doing there is some benefit of doing there is some benefit of doing entertaining type of stuff entertaining type of stuff entertaining type of stuff so that so that so that you get the you get the you get the um

um um kind of like mr beast does with kind of like mr beast does with kind of like mr beast does with philanthropy right the bigger mr beast philanthropy right the bigger mr beast philanthropy right the bigger mr beast becomes the more effective he is at becomes the more effective he is at becomes the more effective he is at actually doing positive impact on the actually doing positive impact on the actually doing positive impact on the world so right those things are tied uh world so right those things are tied uh world so right those things are tied uh tied together but of course with with tied together but of course with with tied together but of course with with podcasts podcasts podcasts you guys well maybe you have these kinds you guys well maybe you have these kinds you guys well maybe you have these kinds of tense things but of tense things but of tense things but what kind of ideas what kind of people what kind of ideas what kind of people what kind of ideas what kind of people do platform do platform do platform what kind of person what kind of person what kind of person um um um what kind of human being do you want to what kind of human being do you want to what kind of human being do you want to be be be because you're actually becoming a because you're actually becoming a because you're actually becoming a person person person and um and um and um a set of ideas in front of the public a set of ideas in front of the public a set of ideas in front of the public eye and you have to ask yourself that eye and you have to ask yourself that eye and you have to ask yourself that question really hard like really question really hard like really question really hard like really seriously because uh if you're doing seriously because uh if you're doing seriously because uh if you're doing stuff in private stuff in private stuff in private you have the complete luxuries to try you have the complete luxuries to try you have the complete luxuries to try shit out right i think you have less of shit out right i think you have less of shit out right i think you have less of a luxury to try shit out because the a luxury to try shit out because the a luxury to try shit out because the internet can be vicious and punishing internet can be vicious and punishing internet can be vicious and punishing you for trying shit out and do you think you for trying shit out and do you think you for trying shit out and do you think that's sometimes a bad thing where you that's sometimes a bad thing where you that's sometimes a bad thing where you have less freedom to make mistakes have less freedom to make mistakes have less freedom to make mistakes yeah you have two choices so one you put yeah you have two choices so one you put yeah you have two choices so one you put up a wall and say i don't give a shit up a wall and say i don't give a shit up a wall and say i don't give a shit what people think what people think what people think i don't like doing that because i like i don't like doing that because i like i don't like doing that because i like being fragile to the world keeping my being fragile to the world keeping my being fragile to the world keeping my sort of wearing my heart on my sleeve sort of wearing my heart on my sleeve sort of wearing my heart on my sleeve uh or the other one yeah you have to be uh or the other one yeah you have to be uh or the other one yeah you have to be you have to you have to you have to you have to actually think through what you have to actually think through what you have to actually think through what you're gonna say you're gonna say you're gonna say you have to think of like you have to think of like you have to think of like what do i believe you have to be more what do i believe you have to be more what do i believe you have to be more serious about serious about serious about um what you put out there um what you put out there um what you put out there it's annoying but it's also actually you

it's annoying but it's also actually you it's annoying but it's also actually you should have always been doing that should have always been doing that should have always been doing that you should be deliberate with your you should be deliberate with your you should be deliberate with your actions and your words actions and your words actions and your words um um um but i don't know it's uh but some of it it's such a balance but some of it it's such a balance because because because some of my favorite people are brilliant some of my favorite people are brilliant some of my favorite people are brilliant people that allow themselves to act people that allow themselves to act people that allow themselves to act ridiculous and be silly elon musk who's ridiculous and be silly elon musk who's ridiculous and be silly elon musk who's become a good friend become a good friend become a good friend is the silliest human of all i mean he's is the silliest human of all i mean he's is the silliest human of all i mean he's incredibly incredibly incredibly uh brilliant and productive and so on uh brilliant and productive and so on uh brilliant and productive and so on but allows themselves to be silly but allows themselves to be silly but allows themselves to be silly and that that's also inspiring to people and that that's also inspiring to people and that that's also inspiring to people like you don't have to be perfect you like you don't have to be perfect you like you don't have to be perfect you don't have to don't have to don't have to you can be a weird a giant weird mess you can be a weird a giant weird mess you can be a weird a giant weird mess and it's okay it's a it's a balance and it's okay it's a it's a balance and it's okay it's a it's a balance i think when you start to delve into i think when you start to delve into i think when you start to delve into political topics into topics that political topics into topics that political topics into topics that really get tense for people then you really get tense for people then you really get tense for people then you have to be a little bit more careful and have to be a little bit more careful and have to be a little bit more careful and deliberate deliberate deliberate um but it's also wise to stay stay the um but it's also wise to stay stay the um but it's also wise to stay stay the hell away from those topics in general hell away from those topics in general hell away from those topics in general uh like i mentioned to you offline uh like i mentioned to you offline uh like i mentioned to you offline somebody i somebody i somebody i have been debating whether i want to have been debating whether i want to have been debating whether i want to talk to nas kuryakin on the chessboard talk to nas kuryakin on the chessboard talk to nas kuryakin on the chessboard because because because you know chess is just a game but you know chess is just a game but you know chess is just a game but throughout throughout throughout the history of the 20th century it was the history of the 20th century it was the history of the 20th century it was played between the russians and the played between the russians and the played between the russians and the americans and so on where americans and so on where americans and so on where they were at war cold or hot war they were at war cold or hot war they were at war cold or hot war and those are interesting and those are interesting and those are interesting those those are interesting um those those are interesting um those those are interesting um conversations to be had at the olympics conversations to be had at the olympics conversations to be had at the olympics and so on it's not just a game it's some and so on it's not just a game it's some and so on it's not just a game it's some sense it's like a mini war sense it's like a mini war sense it's like a mini war and so i have to decide whether i want and so i have to decide whether i want and so i have to decide whether i want to talk to to him or not and those kinds

to talk to to him or not and those kinds to talk to to him or not and those kinds of things you have to make those kinds of things you have to make those kinds of things you have to make those kinds of decisions of decisions of decisions for now you guys are not playing chess for now you guys are not playing chess for now you guys are not playing chess with donald trump or obama or so on with donald trump or obama or so on with donald trump or obama or so on we are not right now no we are not right now no we are not right now no how long is a stream like a few hours how long is a stream like a few hours how long is a stream like a few hours right now they're two to three hours right now they're two to three hours right now they're two to three hours when i was first streaming i'd stream when i was first streaming i'd stream when i was first streaming i'd stream for like six hours a day a day at least for like six hours a day a day at least for like six hours a day a day at least usually yeah for like seven six to seven usually yeah for like seven six to seven usually yeah for like seven six to seven days just like a talking one no i would days just like a talking one no i would days just like a talking one no i would be playing chess the entire time while be playing chess the entire time while be playing chess the entire time while talking and talking and talking and when i started streaming uh when i started streaming uh when i started streaming uh that's kind of how everybody blows up on that's kind of how everybody blows up on that's kind of how everybody blows up on twitch you're just putting in crazy twitch you're just putting in crazy twitch you're just putting in crazy hours and you're always there it's not hours and you're always there it's not hours and you're always there it's not about making the best content it's about about making the best content it's about about making the best content it's about letting people feel like they're hanging letting people feel like they're hanging letting people feel like they're hanging out with you and just being on as much out with you and just being on as much out with you and just being on as much as you can as you can as you can but i ended up feeling very burnt out but i ended up feeling very burnt out but i ended up feeling very burnt out because it's hard to be your best self because it's hard to be your best self because it's hard to be your best self when you're in front of a camera for when you're in front of a camera for when you're in front of a camera for that long because you that long because you that long because you do do do get scared of going into places where get scared of going into places where get scared of going into places where you want to learn but you might not be you want to learn but you might not be you want to learn but you might not be the best in because it's harder to learn the best in because it's harder to learn the best in because it's harder to learn in public than do something that like in public than do something that like in public than do something that like yeah we're better than 99 of our viewers yeah we're better than 99 of our viewers yeah we're better than 99 of our viewers at chess so that's a lot less scary than at chess so that's a lot less scary than at chess so that's a lot less scary than trying to trying to trying to play a game that you're bad at or play a game that you're bad at or play a game that you're bad at or discuss topics that you're interested in discuss topics that you're interested in discuss topics that you're interested in yeah be yeah be yeah be have the beginner's mind and be dumb at have the beginner's mind and be dumb at have the beginner's mind and be dumb at something right yeah which is where the something right yeah which is where the something right yeah which is where the fun is and you get to learn together but fun is and you get to learn together but fun is and you get to learn together but people punish you for it on the internet people punish you for it on the internet people punish you for it on the internet um what about you um what about you um what about you andrea yeah i think like alex said at andrea yeah i think like alex said at andrea yeah i think like alex said at the beginning when we were grinding a the beginning when we were grinding a the beginning when we were grinding a lot you don't really even have time for lot you don't really even have time for lot you don't really even have time for much of a private life because you're

much of a private life because you're much of a private life because you're streaming streaming streaming every hour of your life and people want every hour of your life and people want every hour of your life and people want it like it like it like the appeal of streamers it's called like the appeal of streamers it's called like the appeal of streamers it's called like being parasocial where you feel like being parasocial where you feel like being parasocial where you feel like they're your friend and they like it they're your friend and they like it they're your friend and they like it because they want you to share because they want you to share because they want you to share everything about your life everything about your life everything about your life um really the main challenge for me um really the main challenge for me um really the main challenge for me at first when trying to prioritize at first when trying to prioritize at first when trying to prioritize uh uh uh quantity over quality which we're not quantity over quality which we're not quantity over quality which we're not doing anymore was realizing that i can't doing anymore was realizing that i can't doing anymore was realizing that i can't turn everything i'm interested in and turn everything i'm interested in and turn everything i'm interested in and every passion into content every passion into content every passion into content before i'm like well i must stream more before i'm like well i must stream more before i'm like well i must stream more but i like music and i like playing but i like music and i like playing but i like music and i like playing piano and i like reading into these piano and i like reading into these piano and i like reading into these topics and i like fitness and then i try topics and i like fitness and then i try topics and i like fitness and then i try to live stream all of it and that's just to live stream all of it and that's just to live stream all of it and that's just at some point it's like just enjoy your at some point it's like just enjoy your at some point it's like just enjoy your time off for those hobbies and time off for those hobbies and time off for those hobbies and prioritize what you're good at because prioritize what you're good at because prioritize what you're good at because that's just going to be better for the that's just going to be better for the that's just going to be better for the channel overall so that was a learning channel overall so that was a learning channel overall so that was a learning lesson for sure it's nice because there lesson for sure it's nice because there lesson for sure it's nice because there are some intersections when i have tried are some intersections when i have tried are some intersections when i have tried new things that i really enjoy and it new things that i really enjoy and it new things that i really enjoy and it pays off but that's more uh less often pays off but that's more uh less often pays off but that's more uh less often so it's more like you can be yourself so it's more like you can be yourself so it's more like you can be yourself but only specific parts of yourself but only specific parts of yourself but only specific parts of yourself online online online and and and the rest sometimes it's nice to just the rest sometimes it's nice to just the rest sometimes it's nice to just keep private and keep private and keep private and feel that you could just feel that you could just feel that you could just give it your 100 freedom give it your 100 freedom give it your 100 freedom see i i i feel like um see i i i feel like um see i i i feel like um i try to be the exact same person i try to be the exact same person i try to be the exact same person on podcasts as in private life i really on podcasts as in private life i really on podcasts as in private life i really don't like don't like don't like hiding anything but you're also a hiding anything but you're also a hiding anything but you're also a generalist right where you have people generalist right where you have people generalist right where you have people with all topics for us we built our with all topics for us we built our with all topics for us we built our audience off of very specific things so

audience off of very specific things so audience off of very specific things so people sometimes feel like even at the people sometimes feel like even at the people sometimes feel like even at the start when we started playing less chess start when we started playing less chess start when we started playing less chess they're like i subbed for chess why are they're like i subbed for chess why are they're like i subbed for chess why are you not playing chess you not playing chess you not playing chess exactly people are tuning in for an exactly people are tuning in for an exactly people are tuning in for an interesting conversation on a bunch of interesting conversation on a bunch of interesting conversation on a bunch of topics so like the more you are yourself topics so like the more you are yourself topics so like the more you are yourself the better it is but it is very hard the better it is but it is very hard the better it is but it is very hard when you build your brand on like one when you build your brand on like one when you build your brand on like one type of gaming content type of gaming content type of gaming content build your build your build your brand brand brand but yeah the way you become a journalist but yeah the way you become a journalist but yeah the way you become a journalist is you slowly expand is you slowly expand is you slowly expand it's like uh like uh it's like uh like uh it's like uh like uh expanded checkers i guess that's that's a downward uh i guess that's that's a downward uh maybe poker poker yeah exactly poker but maybe poker poker yeah exactly poker but maybe poker poker yeah exactly poker but also just the ideas the space of ideas also just the ideas the space of ideas also just the ideas the space of ideas and one of the cool things about chess and one of the cool things about chess and one of the cool things about chess is when you're talking over the is when you're talking over the is when you're talking over the chessboard chessboard chessboard you're it's a kind of podcast you know you're it's a kind of podcast you know you're it's a kind of podcast you know that is actually an idea we've had with that is actually an idea we've had with that is actually an idea we've had with playing chess while also doing a podcast playing chess while also doing a podcast playing chess while also doing a podcast and talking with people it's kind of and talking with people it's kind of and talking with people it's kind of like an ice breaker where you're also like an ice breaker where you're also like an ice breaker where you're also focusing on the game at the same time focusing on the game at the same time focusing on the game at the same time but you know we are slowly evolving and but you know we are slowly evolving and but you know we are slowly evolving and we're doing more things like one thing we're doing more things like one thing we're doing more things like one thing we wanted to do is spend less time in we wanted to do is spend less time in we wanted to do is spend less time in front of the computer so now we're doing front of the computer so now we're doing front of the computer so now we're doing a chess travel show where we go to a chess travel show where we go to a chess travel show where we go to different countries and look at the different countries and look at the different countries and look at the chess culture so it actually feels like chess culture so it actually feels like chess culture so it actually feels like we're doing things that we would want to we're doing things that we would want to we're doing things that we would want to do and explore anyway and maybe it's not do and explore anyway and maybe it's not do and explore anyway and maybe it's not as much in the idea space which we both as much in the idea space which we both as much in the idea space which we both enjoy and do a lot in our own free time enjoy and do a lot in our own free time enjoy and do a lot in our own free time but in the but in the but in the sharing and cool experiences with our sharing and cool experiences with our sharing and cool experiences with our audience that we actually want to do audience that we actually want to do audience that we actually want to do what do you look forward to going we're what do you look forward to going we're what do you look forward to going we're going to romania um going to romania um going to romania um on september 9th and i think this is the on september 9th and i think this is the on september 9th and i think this is the most exciting for me because we're going

most exciting for me because we're going most exciting for me because we're going back to you know the country where our back to you know the country where our back to you know the country where our entire family is from entire family is from entire family is from where our grandmother taught our dad who where our grandmother taught our dad who where our grandmother taught our dad who taught us how to play chess it has a taught us how to play chess it has a taught us how to play chess it has a very strong chess culture so it'll be very strong chess culture so it'll be very strong chess culture so it'll be very unique to go back and see very unique to go back and see very unique to go back and see um how everything is when we haven't um how everything is when we haven't um how everything is when we haven't been back for a very long time and for been back for a very long time and for been back for a very long time and for romanians like it's very rare when romanians like it's very rare when romanians like it's very rare when there's like a famous romanian who there's like a famous romanian who there's like a famous romanian who accomplishes something which is why like accomplishes something which is why like accomplishes something which is why like right now andrew tate's the most famous right now andrew tate's the most famous right now andrew tate's the most famous romanian but he's banned for a bad romanian but he's banned for a bad romanian but he's banned for a bad reason exactly and there's like reason exactly and there's like reason exactly and there's like something very special about romanian something very special about romanian something very special about romanian pride and when we meet fellow romanians pride and when we meet fellow romanians pride and when we meet fellow romanians in the us like it's just an amazing in the us like it's just an amazing in the us like it's just an amazing connection and like i hear the way my connection and like i hear the way my connection and like i hear the way my dad talk about like for example dad talk about like for example dad talk about like for example nadia who was a famous romanian gymnast nadia who was a famous romanian gymnast nadia who was a famous romanian gymnast and he's like yeah like romania we and he's like yeah like romania we and he's like yeah like romania we sucked at everything but when she won sucked at everything but when she won sucked at everything but when she won the olympics for gymnasts every kid on the olympics for gymnasts every kid on the olympics for gymnasts every kid on the street was doing gymnastics because the street was doing gymnastics because the street was doing gymnastics because it's very rare that they make it to that it's very rare that they make it to that it's very rare that they make it to that level of success i'm not saying that level of success i'm not saying that level of success i'm not saying that we're super successful super famous but we're super successful super famous but we're super successful super famous but it is really cool to meet other it is really cool to meet other it is really cool to meet other romanians through chess because it's a romanians through chess because it's a romanians through chess because it's a very special bond very special bond very special bond you you you feel you you you feel you you you feel like it's a community and like you like it's a community and like you like it's a community and like you belong yeah you can't get that anywhere belong yeah you can't get that anywhere belong yeah you can't get that anywhere else else else let me ask your opinion since you let me ask your opinion since you let me ask your opinion since you mentioned him andrew tate you're both mentioned him andrew tate you're both mentioned him andrew tate you're both women successful women you're both women successful women you're both women successful women you're both creators so andrew t is an example of creators so andrew t is an example of creators so andrew t is an example of somebody somebody somebody that has become exceptionally successful that has become exceptionally successful that has become exceptionally successful at at at galvanizing public attention galvanizing public attention galvanizing public attention but he's also but he's also but he's also from any perspective of misogynist so from any perspective of misogynist so from any perspective of misogynist so let me ask a personal question

let me ask a personal question let me ask a personal question do you think i should talk to him on do you think i should talk to him on do you think i should talk to him on this podcast this podcast this podcast how would you feel as a fan how would you feel as a fan how would you feel as a fan as somebody i'm talking to the great as somebody i'm talking to the great as somebody i'm talking to the great alex and andrea bortes and the next alex and andrea bortes and the next alex and andrea bortes and the next episode is with andrew tay episode is with andrew tay episode is with andrew tay i think it's a double-edged sword and i think it's a double-edged sword and i think it's a double-edged sword and most of these things are not as black most of these things are not as black most of these things are not as black and white as they seem and white as they seem and white as they seem you know because on one hand i don't you know because on one hand i don't you know because on one hand i don't agree with his beliefs and i think he agree with his beliefs and i think he agree with his beliefs and i think he said a lot of things that are very said a lot of things that are very said a lot of things that are very hurtful and that influence hurtful and that influence hurtful and that influence people's opinions um people's opinions um people's opinions um at the same time talking to someone at the same time talking to someone at the same time talking to someone through that and trying to get to the through that and trying to get to the through that and trying to get to the root of it and how much of it he used root of it and how much of it he used root of it and how much of it he used just as a social media tactic to maybe just as a social media tactic to maybe just as a social media tactic to maybe change the opinion of people who have change the opinion of people who have change the opinion of people who have been so influenced by him towards been so influenced by him towards been so influenced by him towards something that is maybe more something that is maybe more something that is maybe more understanding towards women or things understanding towards women or things understanding towards women or things like that could like that could like that could do some good but at the same time do some good but at the same time do some good but at the same time platforming someone like that and giving platforming someone like that and giving platforming someone like that and giving them more attention also signals to them more attention also signals to them more attention also signals to other people who have a platform that other people who have a platform that other people who have a platform that it's okay so it's kind of weighing the it's okay so it's kind of weighing the it's okay so it's kind of weighing the pluses and the minuses and it's a very pluses and the minuses and it's a very pluses and the minuses and it's a very tough decision because it's not clear tough decision because it's not clear tough decision because it's not clear and uh the thing about the internet when and uh the thing about the internet when and uh the thing about the internet when you make the wrong decision you're gonna you make the wrong decision you're gonna you make the wrong decision you're gonna pay for it pay for it pay for it right right right that's the thing like personally that's the thing like personally that's the thing like personally and it is it is funny like i think the and it is it is funny like i think the and it is it is funny like i think the whole way rose to fame is just the whole way rose to fame is just the whole way rose to fame is just the growth hack and i've seen other people growth hack and i've seen other people growth hack and i've seen other people do it where like you just say kind of do it where like you just say kind of do it where like you just say kind of i don't i don't i don't honestly i don't really listen to his honestly i don't really listen to his honestly i don't really listen to his content because i just find it so dumb

content because i just find it so dumb content because i just find it so dumb but i think he knows that by saying the but i think he knows that by saying the but i think he knows that by saying the dumbest dumbest dumbest most controversial things that's like a most controversial things that's like a most controversial things that's like a quick rise to fame and i think surface quick rise to fame and i think surface quick rise to fame and i think surface level like he can really hold it up but level like he can really hold it up but level like he can really hold it up but that's why i would honestly enjoy tuning that's why i would honestly enjoy tuning that's why i would honestly enjoy tuning into a conversation where you're really into a conversation where you're really into a conversation where you're really breaking down to the core of those breaking down to the core of those breaking down to the core of those beliefs and i think like the young kids beliefs and i think like the young kids beliefs and i think like the young kids who look up to him and when you actually who look up to him and when you actually who look up to him and when you actually hear someone challenging it could hear someone challenging it could hear someone challenging it could actually be helpful for people but at actually be helpful for people but at actually be helpful for people but at the same time the same time the same time it's a lot of bad publicity people see it's a lot of bad publicity people see it's a lot of bad publicity people see your podcast they say wow like they your podcast they say wow like they your podcast they say wow like they don't if they don't know you and they don't if they don't know you and they don't if they don't know you and they don't know why you're interviewing him don't know why you're interviewing him don't know why you're interviewing him and they don't listen they'll see that and they don't listen they'll see that and they don't listen they'll see that and that 100 and that 100 and that 100 think it's for the other reason think it's for the other reason think it's for the other reason but i'm also afraid of a society where but i'm also afraid of a society where but i'm also afraid of a society where you can't have discourse with people you you can't have discourse with people you you can't have discourse with people you don't dis with people you disagree with don't dis with people you disagree with don't dis with people you disagree with and even though i don't like andrew tate and even though i don't like andrew tate and even though i don't like andrew tate i think the fact that he got banned from i think the fact that he got banned from i think the fact that he got banned from all the platforms is kind of scary all the platforms is kind of scary all the platforms is kind of scary because it sets a precedent and you because it sets a precedent and you because it sets a precedent and you always have to ask yourself would this always have to ask yourself would this always have to ask yourself would this be ethical if i was on the other side be ethical if i was on the other side be ethical if i was on the other side and even things with a president like and even things with a president like and even things with a president like trump even if let's say you're somebody trump even if let's say you're somebody trump even if let's say you're somebody who was on the left if that would have who was on the left if that would have who was on the left if that would have happened to a leftist president how happened to a leftist president how happened to a leftist president how would you feel would you think that's would you feel would you think that's would you feel would you think that's morally ethical so morally ethical so morally ethical so that is something that i think is that is something that i think is that is something that i think is important we try to find ways to have important we try to find ways to have important we try to find ways to have conversations and conversations and conversations and reach some mutual understanding and try reach some mutual understanding and try reach some mutual understanding and try instead of just amplifying the worst instead of just amplifying the worst instead of just amplifying the worst about every human being about every human being about every human being well so one of the major reasons i'm well so one of the major reasons i'm well so one of the major reasons i'm struggling with is because i really struggling with is because i really struggling with is because i really talking to brilliant women i think talking to brilliant women i think talking to brilliant women i think it's also a lot of women reached out to it's also a lot of women reached out to it's also a lot of women reached out to me saying like

me saying like me saying like it is what it is but they're inspired it is what it is but they're inspired it is what it is but they're inspired when the female guest is on yeah and to when the female guest is on yeah and to when the female guest is on yeah and to me if i talk to somebody like andrew day me if i talk to somebody like andrew day me if i talk to somebody like andrew day even if i have a really hard hitting even if i have a really hard hitting even if i have a really hard hitting i think it could be a very good i think it could be a very good i think it could be a very good conversation conversation conversation that that that lessens the likelihood that lessens the likelihood that lessens the likelihood that a brilliant powerful female will go on a brilliant powerful female will go on a brilliant powerful female will go on the show the show the show they'll never they'll never watch it but they'll never they'll never watch it but they'll never they'll never watch it but the thing we're doing the society is we the thing we're doing the society is we the thing we're doing the society is we put labels on each other well put labels on each other well put labels on each other well lex is the person that platforms lex is the person that platforms lex is the person that platforms misogynist misogynist misogynist i did a thing where i did a thing where i did a thing where um um um joe rogan got in in trouble over an joe rogan got in in trouble over an joe rogan got in in trouble over an n-word uh controversy earlier in the n-word uh controversy earlier in the n-word uh controversy earlier in the year year year and joe's a good friend of mine and i and joe's a good friend of mine and i and joe's a good friend of mine and i said that i stand with joe that he's not said that i stand with joe that he's not said that i stand with joe that he's not a racist or something like that a racist or something like that a racist or something like that and and and within certain communities i'm now within certain communities i'm now within certain communities i'm now somebody who's an apologist for racists somebody who's an apologist for racists somebody who's an apologist for racists right or a racist myself uh that kind of right or a racist myself uh that kind of right or a racist myself uh that kind of thing and we put labels without ever thing and we put labels without ever thing and we put labels without ever listening to the content without ever listening to the content without ever listening to the content without ever uh sort of uh sort of uh sort of actually just even the very simple step actually just even the very simple step actually just even the very simple step or seems to be difficult of like taking on the best possible taking on the best possible interpretation of what a person said interpretation of what a person said interpretation of what a person said and giving him the benefit of the doubt and giving him the benefit of the doubt and giving him the benefit of the doubt and having empathy for another person so and having empathy for another person so and having empathy for another person so you have to play in this field where you have to play in this field where you have to play in this field where people assign labels to each other people assign labels to each other people assign labels to each other and uh and uh and uh it's difficult but ultimately i believe it's difficult but ultimately i believe it's difficult but ultimately i believe i hope that good conversations i hope that good conversations i hope that good conversations is a way is a way is a way to like a greater understanding for to like a greater understanding for to like a greater understanding for people to

people to people to um um um grow together as a society and improve grow together as a society and improve grow together as a society and improve and learn the lessons the mistakes of and learn the lessons the mistakes of and learn the lessons the mistakes of the past but you also have to play this the past but you also have to play this the past but you also have to play this game where people just like putting game where people just like putting game where people just like putting labels on each other and canceling each labels on each other and canceling each labels on each other and canceling each other over those or that guy other over those or that guy other over those or that guy said one thing nice about donald trump said one thing nice about donald trump said one thing nice about donald trump he must be a far-right he must be a far-right he must be a far-right nazi nazi nazi or or the opposite that this person or or the opposite that this person or or the opposite that this person um um um says something nice about the vaccine he says something nice about the vaccine he says something nice about the vaccine he must be a far left must be a far left must be a far left um whatever because um whatever because um whatever because apologist apologist apologist for whatever for fauci for whatever for fauci for whatever for fauci um um um or most of us i think are ultimately in or most of us i think are ultimately in or most of us i think are ultimately in the middle it's a weird it's a weird the middle it's a weird it's a weird the middle it's a weird it's a weird thing but i think uh and it's also thing but i think uh and it's also thing but i think uh and it's also painful on a personal level like painful on a personal level like painful on a personal level like people people have written to me people people have written to me people people have written to me about things like single words about things like single words about things like single words half sentences that i've said about half sentences that i've said about half sentences that i've said about either putin or zelensky either putin or zelensky either putin or zelensky where they have hate towards me because where they have hate towards me because where they have hate towards me because of what i of what i of what i said either both directions i have now said either both directions i have now said either both directions i have now accumulated very passionate people accumulated very passionate people accumulated very passionate people that that that some call me a putin apologist some call some call me a putin apologist some call some call me a putin apologist some call me as a landscape apologist and it hurts me as a landscape apologist and it hurts me as a landscape apologist and it hurts to to to given how much i have family there how given how much i have family there how given how much i have family there how much i've seen of suffering there and to much i've seen of suffering there and to much i've seen of suffering there and to carry that burden over time and not let carry that burden over time and not let carry that burden over time and not let it destroy you is tough so like do you it destroy you is tough so like do you it destroy you is tough so like do you want to take on another thing like that want to take on another thing like that want to take on another thing like that when you have conversations right or can when you have conversations right or can when you have conversations right or can i just talk to awesome people like you i just talk to awesome people like you i just talk to awesome people like you too too too where it's not we're not controversial where it's not we're not controversial where it's not we're not controversial it's or you're interesting you're it's or you're interesting you're it's or you're interesting you're fascinating you're inspiring you're like

fascinating you're inspiring you're like fascinating you're inspiring you're like fun you know fun you know fun you know not not not all those difficult things that come all those difficult things that come all those difficult things that come with more difficult conversations right with more difficult conversations right with more difficult conversations right but somebody has to be making those but somebody has to be making those but somebody has to be making those difficult decisions and difficult decisions and difficult decisions and challenging the notions that challenging the notions that challenging the notions that we should cancel someone just for we should cancel someone just for we should cancel someone just for slightly disagreeing with us and it's slightly disagreeing with us and it's slightly disagreeing with us and it's very hard to take that on personally and very hard to take that on personally and very hard to take that on personally and i think that's a huge part of it when i think that's a huge part of it when i think that's a huge part of it when you know it's something you're doing for you know it's something you're doing for you know it's something you're doing for the right reasons and you're getting a the right reasons and you're getting a the right reasons and you're getting a lot of people coming and misinterpreting lot of people coming and misinterpreting lot of people coming and misinterpreting it it's very painful but i think you have to ask yourself but i think you have to ask yourself long term long term long term if when you made that decision you if when you made that decision you if when you made that decision you ultimately thought it would be better or ultimately thought it would be better or ultimately thought it would be better or worse for your listeners to know that worse for your listeners to know that worse for your listeners to know that conversation and then if you can sleep conversation and then if you can sleep conversation and then if you can sleep with it at night take the risk yeah when with it at night take the risk yeah when with it at night take the risk yeah when actually when i talk to people that uh actually when i talk to people that uh actually when i talk to people that uh especially like astrophysicists and you especially like astrophysicists and you especially like astrophysicists and you realize how tiny we are right how realize how tiny we are right how realize how tiny we are right how incredible like how huge the universe is incredible like how huge the universe is incredible like how huge the universe is like you don't it doesn't matter you can like you don't it doesn't matter you can like you don't it doesn't matter you can do anything you could like do anything you could like do anything you could like um you can walk around naked talk shit um you can walk around naked talk shit um you can walk around naked talk shit to people do whatever the hell to people do whatever the hell to people do whatever the hell and uh actually modern social media and uh actually modern social media and uh actually modern social media people will just like forget it's like people will just like forget it's like people will just like forget it's like it's ultimately liberating just try to it's ultimately liberating just try to it's ultimately liberating just try to do do do at least from my perspective the best at least from my perspective the best at least from my perspective the best possible thing for the world you can possible thing for the world you can possible thing for the world you can take big risks it doesn't matter and take big risks it doesn't matter and take big risks it doesn't matter and that's the other thing with being that's the other thing with being that's the other thing with being canceled nowadays because everyone's canceled nowadays because everyone's canceled nowadays because everyone's attention is much more short-sighted you attention is much more short-sighted you attention is much more short-sighted you can get cancelled and then it'll blow can get cancelled and then it'll blow can get cancelled and then it'll blow over in three days and you actually see over in three days and you actually see over in three days and you actually see things like this on twitch very often things like this on twitch very often things like this on twitch very often where people just have

where people just have where people just have outbursts of outrage and they come into outbursts of outrage and they come into outbursts of outrage and they come into your chat and they're all spamming and your chat and they're all spamming and your chat and they're all spamming and saying mean things and then three days saying mean things and then three days saying mean things and then three days after and of course they're not actually after and of course they're not actually after and of course they're not actually ever serious things they're usually like ever serious things they're usually like ever serious things they're usually like things clipped of any streamers and like things clipped of any streamers and like things clipped of any streamers and like their worst moments but then people their worst moments but then people their worst moments but then people forget about it pretty soon after forget about it pretty soon after forget about it pretty soon after so you're able to accept that so you're able to accept that so you're able to accept that like when somebody's being shitty to you like when somebody's being shitty to you like when somebody's being shitty to you for a day uh yeah i mean i still get for a day uh yeah i mean i still get for a day uh yeah i mean i still get sometimes emotional about it especially sometimes emotional about it especially sometimes emotional about it especially when i'm like oh wow like these things when i'm like oh wow like these things when i'm like oh wow like these things are being said are not true or like this are being said are not true or like this are being said are not true or like this is clearly taken out of context but i've is clearly taken out of context but i've is clearly taken out of context but i've just accepted that it's part of the job just accepted that it's part of the job just accepted that it's part of the job and if i am trying my best and i am and if i am trying my best and i am and if i am trying my best and i am trying things with as good intentions as trying things with as good intentions as trying things with as good intentions as possible then i just try to learn every possible then i just try to learn every possible then i just try to learn every time that happens and be like okay what time that happens and be like okay what time that happens and be like okay what could i do better and what is just part could i do better and what is just part could i do better and what is just part of the job of the job of the job well let's start some controversy who's well let's start some controversy who's well let's start some controversy who's the greatest chess player of all time the greatest chess player of all time the greatest chess player of all time uh is it magnus carlsen is the guerrilla uh is it magnus carlsen is the guerrilla uh is it magnus carlsen is the guerrilla caspar visit somebody else bobby fischer caspar visit somebody else bobby fischer caspar visit somebody else bobby fischer do you have a favorite alex do you have a favorite alex do you have a favorite alex so whenever i hear this question i so whenever i hear this question i so whenever i hear this question i interpret it in a very specific way interpret it in a very specific way interpret it in a very specific way where it's not who was the most talented where it's not who was the most talented where it's not who was the most talented chess player or who had the most impact chess player or who had the most impact chess player or who had the most impact on the chess world but who is the on the chess world but who is the on the chess world but who is the greatest at playing chess where if you greatest at playing chess where if you greatest at playing chess where if you were putting all of these players at were putting all of these players at were putting all of these players at their peak who would be the best their peak who would be the best their peak who would be the best and and and you know we're kind of living you know we're kind of living you know we're kind of living in a world where obviously humans are in a world where obviously humans are in a world where obviously humans are becoming more like cyborgs and their becoming more like cyborgs and their becoming more like cyborgs and their tools make them a lot more powerful yes tools make them a lot more powerful yes tools make them a lot more powerful yes um and um and um and the computer is the most powerful tool

the computer is the most powerful tool the computer is the most powerful tool for chess that we've ever witnessed and for chess that we've ever witnessed and for chess that we've ever witnessed and the top players now someone like magnus the top players now someone like magnus the top players now someone like magnus carlsen or gary kasparov if they were carlsen or gary kasparov if they were carlsen or gary kasparov if they were going to go towards people like you know going to go towards people like you know going to go towards people like you know even lasker or bobby fischer back in the even lasker or bobby fischer back in the even lasker or bobby fischer back in the day day day lasker he was world champion for 27 lasker he was world champion for 27 lasker he was world champion for 27 years he was the best in his field by years he was the best in his field by years he was the best in his field by far but would he be able to stand up to far but would he be able to stand up to far but would he be able to stand up to someone like magnus carlson who has had someone like magnus carlson who has had someone like magnus carlson who has had these tools these tools these tools i don't think so i don't think so i don't think so so so so most chess players have said gary most chess players have said gary most chess players have said gary kasparov um and i think even magnus has kasparov um and i think even magnus has kasparov um and i think even magnus has said that in the past but i like to said that in the past but i like to said that in the past but i like to think of it as magnus in his peak and think of it as magnus in his peak and think of it as magnus in his peak and gary at his peak and because magnus was gary at his peak and because magnus was gary at his peak and because magnus was able to live more in a computer era i able to live more in a computer era i able to live more in a computer era i feel like so far he's the greatest of feel like so far he's the greatest of feel like so far he's the greatest of all time and some studies say things all time and some studies say things all time and some studies say things like how there's raiding inflation but i like how there's raiding inflation but i like how there's raiding inflation but i looked into some of them and they looked into some of them and they looked into some of them and they basically calculated people's um play in basically calculated people's um play in basically calculated people's um play in over the years and it seems that there over the years and it seems that there over the years and it seems that there hasn't been inflation people are just hasn't been inflation people are just hasn't been inflation people are just getting better and i think it's because getting better and i think it's because getting better and i think it's because you have better tools at chess you have better tools at chess you have better tools at chess and also the one one of the cases what's and also the one one of the cases what's and also the one one of the cases what's your your your i was gonna say i actually i disagree i was gonna say i actually i disagree i was gonna say i actually i disagree with that with that with that good make it interesting i think i would good make it interesting i think i would good make it interesting i think i would judge the greatest like greatest player judge the greatest like greatest player judge the greatest like greatest player of all time of all time of all time in relative to the time that they lived in relative to the time that they lived in relative to the time that they lived in and magnus although in and magnus although in and magnus although he is technically the strongest chess he is technically the strongest chess he is technically the strongest chess player in history that is because he had player in history that is because he had player in history that is because he had computers to study chess with and of computers to study chess with and of computers to study chess with and of course course course if you compare him to like gary kasparov if you compare him to like gary kasparov if you compare him to like gary kasparov he plays most like stockfish but gary he plays most like stockfish but gary he plays most like stockfish but gary kasparov at his time he beat more kasparov at his time he beat more kasparov at his time he beat more players of his skill level than magnus

players of his skill level than magnus players of his skill level than magnus did magnus loses more often he also of did magnus loses more often he also of did magnus loses more often he also of course held the belt for 20 years more course held the belt for 20 years more course held the belt for 20 years more so i'd say actually because gary lacked so i'd say actually because gary lacked so i'd say actually because gary lacked the help of computers to study chess and the help of computers to study chess and the help of computers to study chess and overall performed better against players overall performed better against players overall performed better against players of his skill level i think he would be of his skill level i think he would be of his skill level i think he would be number one number one number one nice nice nice yeah but i mean the case that people yeah but i mean the case that people yeah but i mean the case that people make for magnus make for magnus make for magnus on many on many on many i mean what alex said but but also i mean what alex said but but also i mean what alex said but but also magnus plays a lot magnus plays a lot magnus plays a lot and he doesn't and he doesn't and he doesn't he plays a lot blitz bullet and he plays a lot blitz bullet and he plays a lot blitz bullet and like he puts like he puts like he puts he gets drunk and like he's really he gets drunk and like he's really he gets drunk and like he's really putting himself out there putting himself out there putting himself out there and in all kinds of conditions and he's and in all kinds of conditions and he's and in all kinds of conditions and he's able to dominate in a lot of them we get able to dominate in a lot of them we get able to dominate in a lot of them we get to see many of the like losses of to see many of the like losses of to see many of the like losses of blunders and all that kind of stuff blunders and all that kind of stuff blunders and all that kind of stuff because he just puts himself out there because he just puts himself out there because he just puts himself out there and i think uh caspar was much more like and i think uh caspar was much more like and i think uh caspar was much more like i never saw him play drunk right i never saw him play drunk right i never saw him play drunk right and it's very focused on the world and it's very focused on the world and it's very focused on the world championship is very like championship is very like championship is very like um very limited number of games and very um very limited number of games and very um very limited number of games and very focused on winning and so focused on winning and so focused on winning and so there's some aspect to the versatility there's some aspect to the versatility there's some aspect to the versatility the aggressive play the fun the all of the aggressive play the fun the all of the aggressive play the fun the all of that that that that i think you have to give credit to that i think you have to give credit to that i think you have to give credit to 100 100 100 in terms of just the in terms of just the in terms of just the the the the the scope the scope the scope the scale of the variety of genius the scale of the variety of genius the scale of the variety of genius exhibited by magnus and he might not exhibited by magnus and he might not exhibited by magnus and he might not even be done yet i don't know if you'll even be done yet i don't know if you'll even be done yet i don't know if you'll ever hit 2 900 but we can't judge yet ever hit 2 900 but we can't judge yet ever hit 2 900 but we can't judge yet because he's not at the peak of his because he's not at the peak of his because he's not at the peak of his career potentially what do you think career potentially what do you think career potentially what do you think about him not playing world championship about him not playing world championship about him not playing world championship isn't that like isn't that wild the isn't that like isn't that wild the isn't that like isn't that wild the entirety of the history of chess in the

entirety of the history of chess in the entirety of the history of chess in the 20th century going like meh 20th century going like meh 20th century going like meh let's walking away from this one let's walking away from this one let's walking away from this one tournament that tournament that tournament that seems to be at the center of chess seems to be at the center of chess seems to be at the center of chess um what do you think about that decision um what do you think about that decision um what do you think about that decision i mean you can't help but be i mean you can't help but be i mean you can't help but be disappointed as a chess fan who wants to disappointed as a chess fan who wants to disappointed as a chess fan who wants to see the best player in the world defend see the best player in the world defend see the best player in the world defend his title his title his title but i also understand it on a personal but i also understand it on a personal but i also understand it on a personal level and not feeling as satisfied when level and not feeling as satisfied when level and not feeling as satisfied when you're you're you're going to the world championship and have going to the world championship and have going to the world championship and have to having to defend against people who to having to defend against people who to having to defend against people who are are are less strong than you and also imagine less strong than you and also imagine less strong than you and also imagine winning world championships and not winning world championships and not winning world championships and not feeling a joy out of that feeling a joy out of that feeling a joy out of that yeah so maybe by not doing that and yeah so maybe by not doing that and yeah so maybe by not doing that and focusing instead on a goal like 2 900 focusing instead on a goal like 2 900 focusing instead on a goal like 2 900 he'll be more likely to accomplish it he'll be more likely to accomplish it he'll be more likely to accomplish it because he's focusing on because he's focusing on because he's focusing on what actually motivates him to play what actually motivates him to play what actually motivates him to play chess but i do think that it will chess but i do think that it will chess but i do think that it will hurt how we judge hurt how we judge hurt how we judge the next world champion the next world champion the next world champion i think it won't change him being the i think it won't change him being the i think it won't change him being the best player in the world best player in the world best player in the world and for someone to replace him even and for someone to replace him even and for someone to replace him even let's say like nepo versus sting even if let's say like nepo versus sting even if let's say like nepo versus sting even if one of them win and right on some stance one of them win and right on some stance one of them win and right on some stance it does lower the merit because now who it does lower the merit because now who it does lower the merit because now who has the world chess championship title has the world chess championship title has the world chess championship title isn't actually the best player in the isn't actually the best player in the isn't actually the best player in the world and that has happened before in world and that has happened before in world and that has happened before in the past but still going to take him the past but still going to take him the past but still going to take him the same effort to prove when they would the same effort to prove when they would the same effort to prove when they would pass him like 10 20 years to become pass him like 10 20 years to become pass him like 10 20 years to become stronger than magnus so i don't think it stronger than magnus so i don't think it stronger than magnus so i don't think it changes the skill level that it takes to changes the skill level that it takes to changes the skill level that it takes to become the best chess player in the become the best chess player in the become the best chess player in the world i think for chess fans it's very

world i think for chess fans it's very world i think for chess fans it's very disappointing but i think in the overall disappointing but i think in the overall disappointing but i think in the overall like grand scheme of like the public like grand scheme of like the public like grand scheme of like the public view to people who don't really view to people who don't really view to people who don't really so like you know what breaks the popular so like you know what breaks the popular so like you know what breaks the popular culture culture culture and you think of what names people know and you think of what names people know and you think of what names people know who don't play chess like bobby fischer who don't play chess like bobby fischer who don't play chess like bobby fischer did it most people know casper over did it most people know casper over did it most people know casper over magnus it takes the same ability and magnus it takes the same ability and magnus it takes the same ability and talent and that doesn't change i think talent and that doesn't change i think talent and that doesn't change i think it does change though if you're playing it does change though if you're playing it does change though if you're playing a player who's not as strong a player who's not as strong a player who's not as strong but i i see your point as well and i but i i see your point as well and i but i i see your point as well and i know we differ on this like i heard you know we differ on this like i heard you know we differ on this like i heard you asked magnus but what is your take on it well well listen his answer is kind of brilliant listen his answer is kind of brilliant listen his answer is kind of brilliant which which which he's not saying he's he's bored of the he's not saying he's he's bored of the he's not saying he's he's bored of the world championship he's world championship he's world championship he's bored of a process that doesn't bored of a process that doesn't bored of a process that doesn't determine the best player determine the best player determine the best player like and it's too anxiety-inducing to like and it's too anxiety-inducing to like and it's too anxiety-inducing to him to have a small number of games he's him to have a small number of games he's him to have a small number of games he's he's he's he's he doesn't mind losing which is really he doesn't mind losing which is really he doesn't mind losing which is really fascinating to a better player right fascinating to a better player right fascinating to a better player right or somebody who's his level he's more or somebody who's his level he's more or somebody who's his level he's more anxious about losing anxious about losing anxious about losing to um to um to um a weaker player the weaker player a weaker player the weaker player a weaker player the weaker player because of the small sample size now if because of the small sample size now if because of the small sample size now if like poker players had that anxiety they like poker players had that anxiety they like poker players had that anxiety they would never play at all right that's the would never play at all right that's the would never play at all right that's the world series of poker you world series of poker you world series of poker you you get to lose against weaker players you get to lose against weaker players you get to lose against weaker players all the time that's the throw of the all the time that's the throw of the all the time that's the throw of the dice but dice but dice but um that's an interesting perspective um that's an interesting perspective um that's an interesting perspective that he would love to play 20 30 40 that he would love to play 20 30 40 that he would love to play 20 30 40 games games games in the world championship but then he

in the world championship but then he in the world championship but then he would enjoy it much more would enjoy it much more would enjoy it much more and also play shorter games because they and also play shorter games because they and also play shorter games because they emphasize the um emphasize the um emphasize the um like pure chess actually being able to like pure chess actually being able to like pure chess actually being able to like like like like much more variety in the middle like much more variety in the middle like much more variety in the middle game just to see a bunch of chaos and game just to see a bunch of chaos and game just to see a bunch of chaos and see how you're able to compute calculate see how you're able to compute calculate see how you're able to compute calculate and intuition all that kind of stuff and and intuition all that kind of stuff and and intuition all that kind of stuff and yeah that's beautiful yeah that's beautiful yeah that's beautiful i wish the chess world would step up and i wish the chess world would step up and i wish the chess world would step up and meet him in a place that makes sense meet him in a place that makes sense meet him in a place that makes sense you know change the world championship you know change the world championship you know change the world championship so feed it changing it somehow that a so feed it changing it somehow that a so feed it changing it somehow that a loss for that or having loss for that or having loss for that or having other really respected tournaments that other really respected tournaments that other really respected tournaments that become like an annual thing that step up become like an annual thing that step up become like an annual thing that step up to that to that to that or more kind of or more kind of or more kind of online youtube type of competitions online youtube type of competitions online youtube type of competitions which i think they're trying to do more which i think they're trying to do more which i think they're trying to do more and more and more and more like the crypto cup and all those kinds like the crypto cup and all those kinds like the crypto cup and all those kinds of things yeah and the grand tour the of things yeah and the grand tour the of things yeah and the grand tour the graduate does play in which takes a lot graduate does play in which takes a lot graduate does play in which takes a lot of the top players and they do it online of the top players and they do it online of the top players and they do it online in shorter formats in shorter formats in shorter formats but there's you know and so that's his but there's you know and so that's his but there's you know and so that's his perspective my perspective my perspective my perhaps narrow perspective as i perhaps narrow perspective as i perhaps narrow perspective as i romanticize the olympic games and those romanticize the olympic games and those romanticize the olympic games and those are every four years and the are every four years and the are every four years and the and the world championships and the world championships and the world championships because they're rare because the sample because they're rare because the sample because they're rare because the sample size is so small that's where the magic size is so small that's where the magic size is so small that's where the magic happens everything's on the line for happens everything's on the line for happens everything's on the line for you know for people that spend their you know for people that spend their you know for people that spend their whole life whole life whole life 20 years of dedication 20 years of dedication 20 years of dedication everything you have every minute of the everything you have every minute of the everything you have every minute of the day is spent for that moment you think day is spent for that moment you think day is spent for that moment you think about like gymnastics at the olympic

about like gymnastics at the olympic about like gymnastics at the olympic games there's certain sports where a games there's certain sports where a games there's certain sports where a single mistake and you're fucked single mistake and you're fucked single mistake and you're fucked and that stress that pressure and that stress that pressure and that stress that pressure it can it can it can it can um it can um it can um it can break people or it can create it can break people or it can create it can break people or it can create magic magic magic like a person that's the underdog like a person that's the underdog like a person that's the underdog has the best night of their life or the has the best night of their life or the has the best night of their life or the person that's been dominating for years person that's been dominating for years person that's been dominating for years all of a sudden slips up that drama from all of a sudden slips up that drama from all of a sudden slips up that drama from a human perspective is beautiful so i a human perspective is beautiful so i a human perspective is beautiful so i still like the world championships but still like the world championships but still like the world championships but then again then again then again looking at all the draws looking at all the draws looking at all the draws looking at like looking at like looking at like well well well the magic isn't quite there the magic isn't quite there the magic isn't quite there so to me when i see faster games of so to me when i see faster games of so to me when i see faster games of chess that's much more chess that's much more chess that's much more that's much more beautiful so but that i that's much more beautiful so but that i that's much more beautiful so but that i don't understand the game of chess don't understand the game of chess don't understand the game of chess deeply enough to know deeply enough to know deeply enough to know like does it have to be so um like does it have to be so um like does it have to be so um so many draws so many draws so many draws like is there a way to create a more like is there a way to create a more like is there a way to create a more dynamic chess and he talked about random dynamic chess and he talked about random dynamic chess and he talked about random chess like with a random starting chess like with a random starting chess like with a random starting position that's really interesting but position that's really interesting but position that's really interesting but then of course that then of course that then of course that that's like then you do have to play that's like then you do have to play that's like then you do have to play hundreds of games and that kind of stuff hundreds of games and that kind of stuff hundreds of games and that kind of stuff right uh so i but i think right uh so i but i think right uh so i but i think it's great that the world number one it's great that the world number one it's great that the world number one is um is um is um struggling with these questions struggling with these questions struggling with these questions because he's in the position he has the because he's in the position he has the because he's in the position he has the leverage to actually change the game of leverage to actually change the game of leverage to actually change the game of chess chess chess as it's publicly seen as publicly played as it's publicly seen as publicly played as it's publicly seen as publicly played so it's um it's interesting he's still so it's um it's interesting he's still so it's um it's interesting he's still young enough to to dominate for quite a young enough to to dominate for quite a young enough to to dominate for quite a long time if he wants long time if he wants long time if he wants so i don't know i you know i do with

so i don't know i you know i do with so i don't know i you know i do with kasparov the the the fight between kasparov the the the fight between kasparov the the the fight between nations i i hope these have the world nations i i hope these have the world nations i i hope these have the world championship championship championship and i hope there's a and i hope there's a and i hope there's a i hope he's still part of it somehow i hope he's still part of it somehow i hope he's still part of it somehow i hope he changes his mind i hope he changes his mind i hope he changes his mind and comes back comes back some kind of and comes back comes back some kind of and comes back comes back some kind of dramatic thing i don't know dramatic thing i don't know dramatic thing i don't know but it is it is his heart is not in it but it is it is his heart is not in it but it is it is his heart is not in it and then um um and then that's not beautiful to see and then that's not beautiful to see and then that's not beautiful to see right right right uh yeah it is beautiful yeah it is beautiful that the thing he wants is a great game that the thing he wants is a great game that the thing he wants is a great game of chess against an opponent that's his of chess against an opponent that's his of chess against an opponent that's his level or better level or better level or better and that's that's great that he's coming and that's that's great that he's coming and that's that's great that he's coming from that place but i hope he comes back from that place but i hope he comes back from that place but i hope he comes back tomorrow because the the world tomorrow because the the world tomorrow because the the world championship is uh championship is uh championship is uh is a special thing in any sport is a special thing in any sport is a special thing in any sport so you do wish that the person who wins so you do wish that the person who wins so you do wish that the person who wins the world championship is the best the world championship is the best the world championship is the best player in the world no no i hope that the best people in the world i hope that the best people in the world i hope that the best people in the world the two best people in the world are the the two best people in the world are the the two best people in the world are the ones that sit down ones that sit down ones that sit down but the person that wins is the person but the person that wins is the person but the person that wins is the person that that's the magic of it nobody knows that that's the magic of it nobody knows that that's the magic of it nobody knows who's going to win i think magnus is so who's going to win i think magnus is so who's going to win i think magnus is so he he really wants the best person to he he really wants the best person to he he really wants the best person to win like the the win like the the win like the the that's why he wants the large sample that's why he wants the large sample that's why he wants the large sample size but to me there's some magic to it size but to me there's some magic to it size but to me there's some magic to it the the stress of it the the drama of it the the stress of it the the drama of it the the stress of it the the drama of it that's all part of the game like it's that's all part of the game like it's that's all part of the game like it's not just about the purity of the game not just about the purity of the game not just about the purity of the game like the the calculation

like the the calculation like the the calculation the pure chess of it it's also like the the pure chess of it it's also like the the pure chess of it it's also like the drama drama drama like like like the yeah the the pressure the drama all the yeah the the pressure the drama all the yeah the the pressure the drama all of it of it of it the shit talking if it gets to you the the shit talking if it gets to you the the shit talking if it gets to you the mind games yeah this is the part that's mind games yeah this is the part that's mind games yeah this is the part that's fun to watch but less fun to be playing fun to watch but less fun to be playing fun to watch but less fun to be playing to be but that's why it's great who can to be but that's why it's great who can to be but that's why it's great who can melt who can rise under that pressure melt who can rise under that pressure melt who can rise under that pressure and who melts under that pressure and who melts under that pressure and who melts under that pressure uh what there's a lot of people to look uh what there's a lot of people to look uh what there's a lot of people to look up to you like they're inspired by you up to you like they're inspired by you up to you like they're inspired by you because you've taken a kind of because you've taken a kind of because you've taken a kind of non-linear path through life is there non-linear path through life is there non-linear path through life is there any advice you have for people any advice you have for people any advice you have for people like in high school today like in high school today like in high school today that are trying to figure out what they that are trying to figure out what they that are trying to figure out what they want to do do they want to go to want to do do they want to go to want to do do they want to go to stanford do they want to pursue a career stanford do they want to pursue a career stanford do they want to pursue a career um in i don't know uh in industry or um in i don't know uh in industry or um in i don't know uh in industry or or go kind of the path you guys have or go kind of the path you guys have or go kind of the path you guys have taken which is have the ability to do taken which is have the ability to do taken which is have the ability to do all of that and still choose to all of that and still choose to all of that and still choose to make the thing that you're passionate make the thing that you're passionate make the thing that you're passionate about your your life about your your life about your your life i always like the calculated risks i always like the calculated risks i always like the calculated risks approach where approach where approach where when you're younger it's okay to take when you're younger it's okay to take when you're younger it's okay to take more risks because you have a lot more more risks because you have a lot more more risks because you have a lot more time time time but there has to be a reason why you're but there has to be a reason why you're but there has to be a reason why you're doing that particular risk is it doing that particular risk is it doing that particular risk is it something that you've spent a lot of something that you've spent a lot of something that you've spent a lot of time already really passionate and time already really passionate and time already really passionate and working on or is it just something working on or is it just something working on or is it just something that's trendy and you want to do it that's trendy and you want to do it that's trendy and you want to do it because you don't have a better option because you don't have a better option because you don't have a better option and that's actually similar to what and that's actually similar to what and that's actually similar to what andrea did when she decided to go into andrea did when she decided to go into andrea did when she decided to go into streaming instead of school streaming instead of school streaming instead of school yeah it was the reason i got into yeah it was the reason i got into yeah it was the reason i got into streaming because i was initially going streaming because i was initially going streaming because i was initially going to go to college but the pandemics it to go to college but the pandemics it to go to college but the pandemics it was right the beginning of the pandemic was right the beginning of the pandemic was right the beginning of the pandemic and all my classes were online and i and all my classes were online and i and all my classes were online and i never thought ever since i was 12 like

never thought ever since i was 12 like never thought ever since i was 12 like my dream was school and i saw myself my dream was school and i saw myself my dream was school and i saw myself nowhere else than going to university nowhere else than going to university nowhere else than going to university um and i just i thought of it and kind um and i just i thought of it and kind um and i just i thought of it and kind of weighed out the wrist i'm like well of weighed out the wrist i'm like well of weighed out the wrist i'm like well if i take a gap year and i try streaming if i take a gap year and i try streaming if i take a gap year and i try streaming with my sister with my sister with my sister what do i have to lose i gain some what do i have to lose i gain some what do i have to lose i gain some experience working with someone who has experience working with someone who has experience working with someone who has a lot more experience than i do um and a lot more experience than i do um and a lot more experience than i do um and then i can go back to school after then i can go back to school after then i can go back to school after and if i go to school right now i do and if i go to school right now i do and if i go to school right now i do online classes for a year and that's online classes for a year and that's online classes for a year and that's something that i could do at any time so something that i could do at any time so something that i could do at any time so that's why it made a lot of sense for me that's why it made a lot of sense for me that's why it made a lot of sense for me to go into this to go into this to go into this but of course this is also a very unique but of course this is also a very unique but of course this is also a very unique opportunity so i don't know how opportunity so i don't know how opportunity so i don't know how applicable but i do think overall the applicable but i do think overall the applicable but i do think overall the calculated risk is a really good it's a calculated risk is a really good it's a calculated risk is a really good it's a life life life is like chess is like chess is like chess exactly maybe sometime exactly uh you're exactly maybe sometime exactly uh you're exactly maybe sometime exactly uh you're also have you considered a career in also have you considered a career in also have you considered a career in professional fighting i saw you did a professional fighting i saw you did a professional fighting i saw you did a self-defense class these little jiu self-defense class these little jiu self-defense class these little jiu jitsu did you see the 10 year old kid jitsu did you see the 10 year old kid jitsu did you see the 10 year old kid who throwing her through her yes and who throwing her through her yes and who throwing her through her yes and apparently i could have broken a leg but apparently i could have broken a leg but apparently i could have broken a leg but it's actually funny like chest boxing is it's actually funny like chest boxing is it's actually funny like chest boxing is a thing and i have been doing a lot of a thing and i have been doing a lot of a thing and i have been doing a lot of boxing like boxing like boxing like i physical activity is like honestly one i physical activity is like honestly one i physical activity is like honestly one of my favorite things to do and i have of my favorite things to do and i have of my favorite things to do and i have been testing it out on content and we been testing it out on content and we been testing it out on content and we have a creative friend who's hosting a have a creative friend who's hosting a have a creative friend who's hosting a chess boxing tournament but there's no chess boxing tournament but there's no chess boxing tournament but there's no woman who's could match me unfortunately woman who's could match me unfortunately woman who's could match me unfortunately because all the opponents are male yeah because all the opponents are male yeah because all the opponents are male yeah and i can't fight a guy um how does and i can't fight a guy um how does and i can't fight a guy um how does chess boxing work so you do a round of chess boxing work so you do a round of chess boxing work so you do a round of chess and round of boxing and we chess and round of boxing and we chess and round of boxing and we actually did a training camp for it actually did a training camp for it actually did a training camp for it before and of course like after you go before and of course like after you go before and of course like after you go into the ring is this real this into the ring is this real this into the ring is this real this seriously actually yeah we went to the seriously actually yeah we went to the seriously actually yeah we went to the london chess boxing club and like after

london chess boxing club and like after london chess boxing club and like after you've seen like videos i thought it was you've seen like videos i thought it was you've seen like videos i thought it was something you did in russia or something something you did in russia or something something you did in russia or something no it's a real sport yeah real sport no it's a real sport yeah real sport no it's a real sport yeah real sport yeah no it's very cool but after you get yeah no it's very cool but after you get yeah no it's very cool but after you get really tired you're more likely to make really tired you're more likely to make really tired you're more likely to make a mistake a mistake a mistake or something yeah there's probably good or something yeah there's probably good or something yeah there's probably good strategies like what do you want to strategies like what do you want to strategies like what do you want to because some of it is a cardio thing do because some of it is a cardio thing do because some of it is a cardio thing do you want to work on your chest you want to work on your chest you want to work on your chest they do both it's very fun they do both it's very fun they do both it's very fun but yeah from a content perspective i'm but yeah from a content perspective i'm but yeah from a content perspective i'm sure there's a lot of people that like sure there's a lot of people that like sure there's a lot of people that like and would love very entertaining we'd and would love very entertaining we'd and would love very entertaining we'd love to see love to see love to see i don't want to see andrea getting hit i don't want to see andrea getting hit i don't want to see andrea getting hit that would be i would love to oh she that would be i would love to oh she that would be i would love to oh she doesn't get hit but i wouldn't get it doesn't get hit but i wouldn't get it doesn't get hit but i wouldn't get it our roommate fought in a fight and she our roommate fought in a fight and she our roommate fought in a fight and she did end up winning but seeing her get did end up winning but seeing her get did end up winning but seeing her get hit i thought i was going to throw i hit i thought i was going to throw i hit i thought i was going to throw i just think it was so cool she had no just think it was so cool she had no just think it was so cool she had no experience in boxing whatsoever and then experience in boxing whatsoever and then experience in boxing whatsoever and then coming from someone in the content world coming from someone in the content world coming from someone in the content world where you start like waking up six days where you start like waking up six days where you start like waking up six days a week at six a.m and he's training a week at six a.m and he's training a week at six a.m and he's training every day like you know like a real every day like you know like a real every day like you know like a real professional athlete i think like it's professional athlete i think like it's professional athlete i think like it's such a unique experience and also like a such a unique experience and also like a such a unique experience and also like a really test of how much you can really really test of how much you can really really test of how much you can really commit to this and progress and i think commit to this and progress and i think commit to this and progress and i think that's really rewarding and did you ever that's really rewarding and did you ever that's really rewarding and did you ever end up doing the marathon with david end up doing the marathon with david end up doing the marathon with david goggins that you were training i know i goggins that you were training i know i goggins that you were training i know i got injured but we're gonna do it soon got injured but we're gonna do it soon got injured but we're gonna do it soon that's on my uh uh bucket list just to that's on my uh uh bucket list just to that's on my uh uh bucket list just to see what your limits are you're ready see what your limits are you're ready see what your limits are you're ready what did you do leading up to this it's meant it's mental anyway oh yeah it's meant it's mental anyway oh yeah but i do run a lot to make sure like but i do run a lot to make sure like but i do run a lot to make sure like there's no um there's no um there's no um like like like you know you have to be have a base you know you have to be have a base you know you have to be have a base level of fitness to make sure your body level of fitness to make sure your body level of fitness to make sure your body doesn't completely freak out but other doesn't completely freak out but other doesn't completely freak out but other than that than that than that you know 50 plus miles is just about

you know 50 plus miles is just about you know 50 plus miles is just about like like like uh taking it one step at a time and just uh taking it one step at a time and just uh taking it one step at a time and just being able to deal with the suffering being able to deal with the suffering being able to deal with the suffering and all the voices the little voices and all the voices the little voices and all the voices the little voices that tell you all the excuses like that tell you all the excuses like that tell you all the excuses like why are you doing this why are you doing this why are you doing this this blisters bleeding uh whatever this blisters bleeding uh whatever this blisters bleeding uh whatever whatever the whatever the whatever the the thing that makes you want to stop the thing that makes you want to stop the thing that makes you want to stop just just shuts off sometimes it feels just just shuts off sometimes it feels just just shuts off sometimes it feels like you like pain like you like pain like you like pain no well no well no well no no no no no no but but but the pain does seem to show the way to the pain does seem to show the way to the pain does seem to show the way to progress progress progress so what you're talking about am i in my so what you're talking about am i in my so what you're talking about am i in my world something that's really hard and i world something that's really hard and i world something that's really hard and i don't want to do that's usually the don't want to do that's usually the don't want to do that's usually the right thing to do right thing to do right thing to do and i and i and i i'm not saying that's a i'm not saying that's a i'm not saying that's a that's like a universal truth it's just that's like a universal truth it's just that's like a universal truth it's just uh you know if there's a few doors to go uh you know if there's a few doors to go uh you know if there's a few doors to go into the one that i'd want to go into into the one that i'd want to go into into the one that i'd want to go into least that's the one that usually is the least that's the one that usually is the least that's the one that usually is the right one right one right one afterwards i will learn something from afterwards i will learn something from afterwards i will learn something from it uh the david gaga's thing i don't it uh the david gaga's thing i don't it uh the david gaga's thing i don't know that's listen i uh we're talking know that's listen i uh we're talking know that's listen i uh we're talking offline the different the conversation offline the different the conversation offline the different the conversation with liv she's a very numerous with liv she's a very numerous with liv she's a very numerous calculated risk calculated risk calculated risk everything is planned i i go with the everything is planned i i go with the everything is planned i i go with the heart i just i just go whatever the hell heart i just i just go whatever the hell heart i just i just go whatever the hell i think two years ago i woke up i think two years ago i woke up i think two years ago i woke up it was it was it was summer i i decided to tweet summer i i decided to tweet summer i i decided to tweet i will do as many push-ups i will do as many push-ups i will do as many push-ups i don't know why i did this i don't know why i did this i don't know why i did this but i i'll do as many push-ups and but i i'll do as many push-ups and but i i'll do as many push-ups and pull-ups as the sweet guest likes pull-ups as the sweet guest likes pull-ups as the sweet guest likes something like that okay right and then something like that okay right and then something like that okay right and then uh that you got like uh that you got like uh that you got like 30 000.

30 000. 30 000. once you put it out on the internet once you put it out on the internet once you put it out on the internet you're held accountable for myself i you're held accountable for myself i you're held accountable for myself i mean mean mean in some sense and then that's when i in some sense and then that's when i in some sense and then that's when i already was connected to david already was connected to david already was connected to david at that point but that's when he called at that point but that's when he called at that point but that's when he called me me me and then they have to do it and then i and then they have to do it and then i and then they have to do it and then i did it was one of the hardest things did it was one of the hardest things did it was one of the hardest things i've ever done i've ever done i've ever done i got it i i did it for seven days and i i got it i i did it for seven days and i i got it i i did it for seven days and i got injured so i did about a few got injured so i did about a few got injured so i did about a few thousand so this is what got you to be thousand so this is what got you to be thousand so this is what got you to be injured this challenge no it's different injured this challenge no it's different injured this challenge no it's different i keep getting i keep getting i keep getting keep getting injured doing some stuff keep getting injured doing some stuff keep getting injured doing some stuff but this particular thing i started but this particular thing i started but this particular thing i started doing the you don't realize that you doing the you don't realize that you doing the you don't realize that you have to really ramp up have to really ramp up have to really ramp up so i got uh like so i got uh like so i got uh like overuse injury tendonitis on on the overuse injury tendonitis on on the overuse injury tendonitis on on the shoulder all the way down to the elbow shoulder all the way down to the elbow shoulder all the way down to the elbow so i took so i took so i took like eight or nine days off and then like eight or nine days off and then like eight or nine days off and then started again and then it took about started again and then it took about started again and then it took about 31 days to do 31 days to do 31 days to do [Music] [Music] [Music] i the number was like i the number was like i the number was like 26 27 000. 26 27 000. 26 27 000. yeah because and i remember it took like yeah because and i remember it took like yeah because and i remember it took like three four hours a day oh god yeah three four hours a day oh god yeah three four hours a day oh god yeah sounds like torture and not you know in sounds like torture and not you know in sounds like torture and not you know in the constantly asking myself what am i the constantly asking myself what am i the constantly asking myself what am i doing in my life doing in my life doing in my life this is why you're single what's the this is why you're single what's the this is why you're single what's the voice of my head voice of my head voice of my head this is what are you doing it's like this is what are you doing it's like this is what are you doing it's like face down on the carpet like like exhausted like what what because of a exhausted like what what because of a exhausted like what what because of a tweet what is this tweet what is this tweet what is this did you record it or you just i did i did you record it or you just i did i did you record it or you just i did i did record it for myself okay now did record it for myself okay now did record it for myself okay now imagine doing this every day and that's imagine doing this every day and that's imagine doing this every day and that's what it's like to be a twitch streamer what it's like to be a twitch streamer what it's like to be a twitch streamer just kidding right doing stupid things

just kidding right doing stupid things just kidding right doing stupid things that was really important to me actually that was really important to me actually that was really important to me actually to not make it into content um to not make it into content um to not make it into content um you know i recorded everything so maybe you know i recorded everything so maybe you know i recorded everything so maybe one day i could publish it i recorded it one day i could publish it i recorded it one day i could publish it i recorded it mostly because it's really hard to count mostly because it's really hard to count mostly because it's really hard to count yeah when you get exhausted yeah like i yeah when you get exhausted yeah like i yeah when you get exhausted yeah like i just so um you actually enter the zen just so um you actually enter the zen just so um you actually enter the zen place where uh with push-ups place where uh with push-ups place where uh with push-ups where it's just like it's almost like where it's just like it's almost like where it's just like it's almost like like breathing you get into a rhythm and like breathing you get into a rhythm and like breathing you get into a rhythm and you could do quite a lot you could do quite a lot you could do quite a lot but i wanted to make sure like if i but i wanted to make sure like if i but i wanted to make sure like if i actually get this done actually get this done actually get this done i want there to be evidence that i got i want there to be evidence that i got i want there to be evidence that i got it done for myself so i can count it i it done for myself so i can count it i it done for myself so i can count it i had this idea that i would use machine had this idea that i would use machine had this idea that i would use machine learning to like automatically process learning to like automatically process learning to like automatically process the video to count it but then the video to count it but then the video to count it but then like after like 10 days i didn't even like after like 10 days i didn't even like after like 10 days i didn't even give a shit what anyone thought it was give a shit what anyone thought it was give a shit what anyone thought it was about me versus me about me versus me about me versus me i didn't even care lex versus lex yeah i didn't even care lex versus lex yeah i didn't even care lex versus lex yeah and then uh and then uh and then uh yeah and dave was extremely supportive yeah and dave was extremely supportive yeah and dave was extremely supportive but that's when i realized like i really but that's when i realized like i really but that's when i realized like i really want to go head to head with him want to go head to head with him want to go head to head with him um yeah this those kinds of people are um yeah this those kinds of people are um yeah this those kinds of people are beautiful they really challenge you to beautiful they really challenge you to beautiful they really challenge you to your limits whatever that is it's like your limits whatever that is it's like your limits whatever that is it's like the thing is physical exercise is such the thing is physical exercise is such the thing is physical exercise is such an easy way to push yourself to your an easy way to push yourself to your an easy way to push yourself to your limit there's in all other walks of life limit there's in all other walks of life limit there's in all other walks of life it's it's trickier to configure like how it's it's trickier to configure like how it's it's trickier to configure like how do you push yourself to your limits in do you push yourself to your limits in do you push yourself to your limits in chess it's hard to figure out but like chess it's hard to figure out but like chess it's hard to figure out but like do you think it's ever dangerous do you think it's ever dangerous do you think it's ever dangerous yeah and that's what that's why it's yeah and that's what that's why it's yeah and that's what that's why it's beautiful beautiful beautiful the danger you like the pain i don't the danger you like the pain i don't the danger you like the pain i don't like that your eyes lit up as i said like that your eyes lit up as i said like that your eyes lit up as i said yeah yeah yeah like if you don't know how you're gonna like if you don't know how you're gonna like if you don't know how you're gonna get out of it get out of it get out of it you're gonna have to figure out you're gonna have to figure out you're gonna have to figure out something profound

something profound something profound about yourself about yourself about yourself and i mean one of the reasons i went to and i mean one of the reasons i went to and i mean one of the reasons i went to ukraine is i really wanted to ukraine is i really wanted to ukraine is i really wanted to uh experience the hardship uh experience the hardship uh experience the hardship and and and the intensity of war that people are the intensity of war that people are the intensity of war that people are experiencing so i can understand myself experiencing so i can understand myself experiencing so i can understand myself better i can understand them better so better i can understand them better so better i can understand them better so the words that are leaving my mouth are the words that are leaving my mouth are the words that are leaving my mouth are grounded in a better understanding of grounded in a better understanding of grounded in a better understanding of who they are and i mean the the the who they are and i mean the the the who they are and i mean the the the running a lot with david gong is is a running a lot with david gong is is a running a lot with david gong is is a much simpler much simpler much simpler thing to do thing to do thing to do um simpler way to understand something um simpler way to understand something um simpler way to understand something about yourself about like the limits of about yourself about like the limits of about yourself about like the limits of human nature i think most growth happens human nature i think most growth happens human nature i think most growth happens with voluntary suffering or struggle with voluntary suffering or struggle with voluntary suffering or struggle involuntary stuff that's that's where involuntary stuff that's that's where involuntary stuff that's that's where the dark trauma is created but the dark trauma is created but the dark trauma is created but i don't know well maybe maybe it is i don't know well maybe maybe it is i don't know well maybe maybe it is maybe i'm just attracted to and what is maybe i'm just attracted to and what is maybe i'm just attracted to and what is that your mind does when you're going that your mind does when you're going that your mind does when you're going through this involuntary suffering through this involuntary suffering through this involuntary suffering i think there's like stages first all the there's like stages first all the excuses start coming like why are you excuses start coming like why are you excuses start coming like why are you doing this doing this doing this and then and then and then you start to wonder like what you start to wonder like what you start to wonder like what what kind of person do you want to be what kind of person do you want to be what kind of person do you want to be so all the dreams you had all the so all the dreams you had all the so all the dreams you had all the promise you made to yourself and to promise you made to yourself and to promise you made to yourself and to others all the ambitions you had that others all the ambitions you had that others all the ambitions you had that are haven't come yet realized somehow are haven't come yet realized somehow are haven't come yet realized somehow that all becomes that all becomes that all becomes really intensely like visceral as as

really intensely like visceral as as really intensely like visceral as as this struggle is happening and then this struggle is happening and then this struggle is happening and then when all of that when all of that when all of that is allowed to pass from your mind you is allowed to pass from your mind you is allowed to pass from your mind you have this clear appreciation of what you have this clear appreciation of what you have this clear appreciation of what you really love in life which is just like really love in life which is just like really love in life which is just like just living just living just living just the moment the like the just the moment the like the just the moment the like the step at a time like it's i think what step at a time like it's i think what step at a time like it's i think what meditation does and it's most effective meditation does and it's most effective meditation does and it's most effective it's just that pain is a as a catalyst it's just that pain is a as a catalyst it's just that pain is a as a catalyst for the meditative process i think for for the meditative process i think for for the meditative process i think for me me me for me for me for me i don't know i don't know i don't know um magnus said there's no meaning to um magnus said there's no meaning to um magnus said there's no meaning to life do you guys agree i do not know why we're here i do not know why we're here but i do know that but i do know that but i do know that having some kind of having some kind of having some kind of meaning that i give my own life meaning that i give my own life meaning that i give my own life makes it makes it makes it a lot more motivating every day so i a lot more motivating every day so i a lot more motivating every day so i just try to focus on finding meaning just try to focus on finding meaning just try to focus on finding meaning within my own life even if i know it's within my own life even if i know it's within my own life even if i know it's just just just self-imposed self-imposed self-imposed and then chess is a part of that and then chess is a part of that and then chess is a part of that chess chess chess is a part of it is a part of it is a part of it maybe it was more so maybe it was more so maybe it was more so when i was younger because it was easier when i was younger because it was easier when i was younger because it was easier to just feel like i want to improve as a to just feel like i want to improve as a to just feel like i want to improve as a person and person and person and to use chess to kind of measure some to use chess to kind of measure some to use chess to kind of measure some kind of self-improvement kind of self-improvement kind of self-improvement and now it's and now it's and now it's more different than that and i think i more different than that and i think i more different than that and i think i need to once again find what that need to once again find what that need to once again find what that you know you know you know northern star is basically i need to northern star is basically i need to northern star is basically i need to have a why for why i'm doing things and

have a why for why i'm doing things and have a why for why i'm doing things and then you i feel like i could do very then you i feel like i could do very then you i feel like i could do very hard things hard things hard things what uh role does love play in the human what uh role does love play in the human what uh role does love play in the human condition condition condition alex and andrea i'll let andrea start alex and andrea i'll let andrea start alex and andrea i'll let andrea start this one since i took the last sure this one since i took the last sure this one since i took the last sure and yeah just to add my answer for the and yeah just to add my answer for the and yeah just to add my answer for the last one i i also last one i i also last one i i also kind of think well life is meaningless kind of think well life is meaningless kind of think well life is meaningless but i like the stoic idea where that's but i like the stoic idea where that's but i like the stoic idea where that's something that you live to revolt something that you live to revolt something that you live to revolt against against against but for the second question but for the second question but for the second question i have the revolt against the i have the revolt against the i have the revolt against the fundamental meaninglessness of life fundamental meaninglessness of life fundamental meaninglessness of life exactly exactly exactly yeah yeah yeah it was what does love play what role it was what does love play what role it was what does love play what role does love play yeah in the human does love play yeah in the human does love play yeah in the human condition condition condition the way i see it i love is a reason you want to share love is a reason you want to share experiences with other people experiences with other people experiences with other people that's how i see it like the people you that's how i see it like the people you that's how i see it like the people you really love you want to share the things really love you want to share the things really love you want to share the things you're going through with them you're going through with them you're going through with them um the good and the bad yeah exactly um the good and the bad yeah exactly um the good and the bad yeah exactly that's my simple take on love my take on it is that my take on it is that part of what it is to be human is to be part of what it is to be human is to be part of what it is to be human is to be somebody who somebody who somebody who feels things emotionally and love feels things emotionally and love feels things emotionally and love is one of the most intense feelings you is one of the most intense feelings you is one of the most intense feelings you can have can have can have um obviously there's the opposite of um obviously there's the opposite of um obviously there's the opposite of that and there's things like hate but i that and there's things like hate but i that and there's things like hate but i think the love you feel for people like think the love you feel for people like think the love you feel for people like your parents and your friends and your parents and your friends and your parents and your friends and romantic love in that moment is much romantic love in that moment is much romantic love in that moment is much more more more intense intense intense than in other situations

than in other situations than in other situations um and i think it's also just very um and i think it's also just very um and i think it's also just very unique to humans and that's unique to humans and that's unique to humans and that's what i appreciate about it maybe that's what i appreciate about it maybe that's what i appreciate about it maybe that's the meaning of life the meaning of life the meaning of life maybe that's what the stoix is searching maybe that's what the stoix is searching maybe that's what the stoix is searching for for for andrea alex thank you so much for this andrea alex thank you so much for this andrea alex thank you so much for this and thank you for an amazing and thank you for an amazing and thank you for an amazing conversation thank you for creating keep conversation thank you for creating keep conversation thank you for creating keep creating and thank you for putting creating and thank you for putting creating and thank you for putting knowledge and love out there in the knowledge and love out there in the knowledge and love out there in the world world world thank you for having us thank you for having us thank you for having us it was a pleasure and uh we're both big it was a pleasure and uh we're both big it was a pleasure and uh we're both big fans of your podcast so this was really fans of your podcast so this was really fans of your podcast so this was really exciting for us exciting for us exciting for us thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with alexandra and andrea conversation with alexandra and andrea conversation with alexandra and andrea botez to support this podcast please botez to support this podcast please botez to support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the check out our sponsors in the check out our sponsors in the description description description and now let me leave you with some words and now let me leave you with some words and now let me leave you with some words from bobby fisher from bobby fisher from bobby fisher chess chess chess is life is life is life thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see you next time