Benjamin Netanyahu: Israel, Palestine, Power, Corruption, Hate, and Peace | Lex Fridman Podcast #389

we should never and I never set aside we should never and I never set aside and say oh they're just threatening to and say oh they're just threatening to and say oh they're just threatening to destroy us they won't do it if somebody destroy us they won't do it if somebody destroy us they won't do it if somebody threatens to eliminate you as Iran is threatens to eliminate you as Iran is threatens to eliminate you as Iran is doing today and as Hitler did then and doing today and as Hitler did then and doing today and as Hitler did then and people discounted it well if somebody people discounted it well if somebody people discounted it well if somebody threatens to annihilate I'll take them threatens to annihilate I'll take them threatens to annihilate I'll take them seriously and act to prevent it early on seriously and act to prevent it early on seriously and act to prevent it early on don't let them have the means to do so don't let them have the means to do so don't let them have the means to do so because that may be too late the following is a conversation with the following is a conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu prime minister of Benjamin Netanyahu prime minister of Benjamin Netanyahu prime minister of Israel currently serving his sixth term Israel currently serving his sixth term Israel currently serving his sixth term in office he's one of the most in office he's one of the most in office he's one of the most influential powerful and controversial influential powerful and controversial influential powerful and controversial men in the world leading a right-wing men in the world leading a right-wing men in the world leading a right-wing coalition government at the center of coalition government at the center of coalition government at the center of one of the most intense and long-lasting one of the most intense and long-lasting one of the most intense and long-lasting conflicts in crises in human history as conflicts in crises in human history as conflicts in crises in human history as we spoke and as I speak now large-scale we spoke and as I speak now large-scale we spoke and as I speak now large-scale protests are breaking out all over protests are breaking out all over protests are breaking out all over Israel over this government's proposed Israel over this government's proposed Israel over this government's proposed judicial reform that seeks to weaken the judicial reform that seeks to weaken the judicial reform that seeks to weaken the Supreme Court in a bold accumulation of Supreme Court in a bold accumulation of Supreme Court in a bold accumulation of power power power given the current intense political given the current intense political given the current intense political battles in Israel our previous intention battles in Israel our previous intention battles in Israel our previous intention to speak for three hours was adjusted to to speak for three hours was adjusted to to speak for three hours was adjusted to one hour for the time being but we one hour for the time being but we one hour for the time being but we agreed to speak again for much longer in agreed to speak again for much longer in agreed to speak again for much longer in the future the future the future I will also interview people who harshly I will also interview people who harshly I will also interview people who harshly disagree with the words spoken in this disagree with the words spoken in this disagree with the words spoken in this conversation I will speak with other conversation I will speak with other conversation I will speak with other world leaders with religious leaders world leaders with religious leaders world leaders with religious leaders with historians and activists and with with historians and activists and with with historians and activists and with people who have lived and have suffered people who have lived and have suffered people who have lived and have suffered through the pain of War destruction and through the pain of War destruction and through the pain of War destruction and loss that stoke the fires of anger and loss that stoke the fires of anger and loss that stoke the fires of anger and hate in their heart

hate in their heart hate in their heart for this I will travel anywhere no for this I will travel anywhere no for this I will travel anywhere no matter how dangerous if there's any matter how dangerous if there's any matter how dangerous if there's any chance it may help add to understanding chance it may help add to understanding chance it may help add to understanding and love in the world and love in the world and love in the world I believe in the power of conversation I believe in the power of conversation I believe in the power of conversation to do just this to remind us of our to do just this to remind us of our to do just this to remind us of our common Humanity common Humanity common Humanity I know I'm under qualified and I know I'm under qualified and I know I'm under qualified and underskilled for these conversations so underskilled for these conversations so underskilled for these conversations so I will often fall short and I will I will often fall short and I will I will often fall short and I will certainly get attacked derided and certainly get attacked derided and certainly get attacked derided and slandered but I will always turn the slandered but I will always turn the slandered but I will always turn the other cheek and use these attacks to other cheek and use these attacks to other cheek and use these attacks to learn to improve and no matter what learn to improve and no matter what learn to improve and no matter what never give in to cynicism this life this never give in to cynicism this life this never give in to cynicism this life this world of ours is too beautiful not to world of ours is too beautiful not to world of ours is too beautiful not to keep trying trying to do some good in keep trying trying to do some good in keep trying trying to do some good in whatever way each of us know how whatever way each of us know how whatever way each of us know how I love you all I love you all I love you all this is the Lex Friedman podcast to this is the Lex Friedman podcast to this is the Lex Friedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends in the description and now dear friends here's Benjamin Netanyahu here's Benjamin Netanyahu here's Benjamin Netanyahu you're loved by many people here in you're loved by many people here in you're loved by many people here in Israel and in the world but you're also Israel and in the world but you're also Israel and in the world but you're also hated by many in fact I think you may be hated by many in fact I think you may be hated by many in fact I think you may be one of the the most hated men in the one of the the most hated men in the one of the the most hated men in the world so if there's a young man or a world so if there's a young man or a world so if there's a young man or a young woman listening to this right now young woman listening to this right now young woman listening to this right now who have such hate in their heart who have such hate in their heart who have such hate in their heart what can you say to them to what can you say to them to what can you say to them to one day turn that hate into love I one day turn that hate into love I one day turn that hate into love I disagree with the premise of your disagree with the premise of your disagree with the premise of your question uh I think I have have enjoyed question uh I think I have have enjoyed question uh I think I have have enjoyed a very broad support around the world

a very broad support around the world a very broad support around the world there are certain uh Corners in which we there are certain uh Corners in which we there are certain uh Corners in which we have uh we have this animosity that you have uh we have this animosity that you have uh we have this animosity that you describe and it sort of permeates in describe and it sort of permeates in describe and it sort of permeates in some of the uh the newspapers and the some of the uh the newspapers and the some of the uh the newspapers and the News organs and so on in the in the News organs and so on in the in the News organs and so on in the in the United States but it certainly doesn't United States but it certainly doesn't United States but it certainly doesn't reflect the the broad support that I reflect the the broad support that I reflect the the broad support that I have I just gave have I just gave have I just gave an interview on an Iranian Channel an interview on an Iranian Channel an interview on an Iranian Channel 16 million viewers I gave another one I 16 million viewers I gave another one I 16 million viewers I gave another one I just did a a little video a few years just did a a little video a few years just did a a little video a few years ago 25 million viewers from Iran ago 25 million viewers from Iran ago 25 million viewers from Iran certainly no hate there I have to tell certainly no hate there I have to tell certainly no hate there I have to tell not from the regime okay and when I go not from the regime okay and when I go not from the regime okay and when I go around the world and I've been around around the world and I've been around around the world and I've been around the world uh people the world uh people the world uh people want to hear what we have to say what I want to hear what we have to say what I want to hear what we have to say what I have to say is a leader of Israel whom have to say is a leader of Israel whom have to say is a leader of Israel whom they respect increasingly as a rising they respect increasingly as a rising they respect increasingly as a rising power in the world so I uh I disagree power in the world so I uh I disagree power in the world so I uh I disagree with that and the most important thing with that and the most important thing with that and the most important thing that goes against what you said is the that goes against what you said is the that goes against what you said is the respect that we receive from the Arab respect that we receive from the Arab respect that we receive from the Arab world and the fact that we've made four world and the fact that we've made four world and the fact that we've made four historic peace agreements with Arab historic peace agreements with Arab historic peace agreements with Arab countries and they made it with me they countries and they made it with me they countries and they made it with me they didn't make it with anyone else and I didn't make it with anyone else and I didn't make it with anyone else and I respect them and they respect me and respect them and they respect me and respect them and they respect me and probably more to come so I think the probably more to come so I think the probably more to come so I think the premise is wrong that's all well premise is wrong that's all well premise is wrong that's all well there's a lot of love yes there are a there's a lot of love yes there are a there's a lot of love yes there are a lot of leaders are collaborating our lot of leaders are collaborating our lot of leaders are collaborating our respect I said not not though okay all respect I said not not though okay all respect I said not not though okay all right well it's a spectrum

right well it's a spectrum right well it's a spectrum but there is people who but there is people who but there is people who um don't have good things to say about um don't have good things to say about um don't have good things to say about Israel who do have hate in their heart Israel who do have hate in their heart Israel who do have hate in their heart and for Israel and what can you say to and for Israel and what can you say to and for Israel and what can you say to those people those people those people well I think they don't know very much I well I think they don't know very much I well I think they don't know very much I think they're Guided by a lot of uh think they're Guided by a lot of uh think they're Guided by a lot of uh ignorance they don't know about Israel ignorance they don't know about Israel ignorance they don't know about Israel they don't know that Israel is a stellar they don't know that Israel is a stellar they don't know that Israel is a stellar democracy that it happens to be one of democracy that it happens to be one of democracy that it happens to be one of the most advanced societies on the the most advanced societies on the the most advanced societies on the planet that what Israel develops helps planet that what Israel develops helps planet that what Israel develops helps uh Humanity in every field in medicine uh Humanity in every field in medicine uh Humanity in every field in medicine and Agriculture and uh in the and Agriculture and uh in the and Agriculture and uh in the environment and environment and environment and telecoms and telecoms and telecoms and talk about AI in a minute but changing talk about AI in a minute but changing talk about AI in a minute but changing the world for the better and spreading the world for the better and spreading the world for the better and spreading this among uh six continents we've sent this among uh six continents we've sent this among uh six continents we've sent rescue teams more than any other country rescue teams more than any other country rescue teams more than any other country in the world and we're one tenth of one in the world and we're one tenth of one in the world and we're one tenth of one percent of the world's population but percent of the world's population but percent of the world's population but when there's a earthquake or a when there's a earthquake or a when there's a earthquake or a Devastation in Haiti or in the Devastation in Haiti or in the Devastation in Haiti or in the Philippines Israel is there when there's Philippines Israel is there when there's Philippines Israel is there when there's an earthquake a devastating earthquake an earthquake a devastating earthquake an earthquake a devastating earthquake in Turkey Turkey Israel was there when in Turkey Turkey Israel was there when in Turkey Turkey Israel was there when there's something in Nepal Israel is there's something in Nepal Israel is there's something in Nepal Israel is there and it's a second country it's the there and it's a second country it's the there and it's a second country it's the second country after in one case India second country after in one case India second country after in one case India or after another case the United States or after another case the United States or after another case the United States Israel is there tiny Israel is a Israel is there tiny Israel is a Israel is there tiny Israel is a benefactor to all of uh Humanity so benefactor to all of uh Humanity so benefactor to all of uh Humanity so you're a student of History if I can you're a student of History if I can you're a student of History if I can just Linger on that philosophical notion just Linger on that philosophical notion just Linger on that philosophical notion of hate of hate of hate uh that part of human nature if you look uh that part of human nature if you look uh that part of human nature if you look at

at at uh World War II what do you learn from uh World War II what do you learn from uh World War II what do you learn from human nature from the rise of the Third human nature from the rise of the Third human nature from the rise of the Third Reich and the rise of somebody like uh Reich and the rise of somebody like uh Reich and the rise of somebody like uh Hitler and the hate that permeates that Hitler and the hate that permeates that Hitler and the hate that permeates that well what I've learned is that you have well what I've learned is that you have well what I've learned is that you have to nip bad things in the bud you have to to nip bad things in the bud you have to to nip bad things in the bud you have to uh there's a lightning term that says uh there's a lightning term that says uh there's a lightning term that says Lobster pinky stop bad things when Lobster pinky stop bad things when Lobster pinky stop bad things when they're small uh and the deliberate they're small uh and the deliberate they're small uh and the deliberate hatred the the uh hatred the the uh hatred the the uh incitement of hatred against uh one incitement of hatred against uh one incitement of hatred against uh one Community uh it's demonization Community uh it's demonization Community uh it's demonization delegitimization that goes with it uh is delegitimization that goes with it uh is delegitimization that goes with it uh is a very dangerous thing and that happened a very dangerous thing and that happened a very dangerous thing and that happened in the case of the Jews what started in the case of the Jews what started in the case of the Jews what started with the Jews soon spread to all of with the Jews soon spread to all of with the Jews soon spread to all of humanity so what we've learned is that's humanity so what we've learned is that's humanity so what we've learned is that's what we should we should never and I what we should we should never and I what we should we should never and I never set aside and say oh they're just never set aside and say oh they're just never set aside and say oh they're just threatening to destroy us they won't do threatening to destroy us they won't do threatening to destroy us they won't do it if somebody threatens to eliminate it if somebody threatens to eliminate it if somebody threatens to eliminate you as Iran is doing today and as Hitler you as Iran is doing today and as Hitler you as Iran is doing today and as Hitler did then and people discounted it well did then and people discounted it well did then and people discounted it well if somebody threatens to an eyelid well if somebody threatens to an eyelid well if somebody threatens to an eyelid well take them seriously and act to prevent take them seriously and act to prevent take them seriously and act to prevent it early on don't let them have the it early on don't let them have the it early on don't let them have the means to do so because that may be too means to do so because that may be too means to do so because that may be too late late late so in those threats so in those threats so in those threats underlying that hatred how much of it is underlying that hatred how much of it is underlying that hatred how much of it is anti-zionism and how much of it is anti-zionism and how much of it is anti-zionism and how much of it is anti-Semitism I don't distinguish anti-Semitism I don't distinguish anti-Semitism I don't distinguish between the two you can't say well I'm between the two you can't say well I'm between the two you can't say well I'm okay with Jews but I just don't think okay with Jews but I just don't think okay with Jews but I just don't think there should be a Jewish State it's like

there should be a Jewish State it's like there should be a Jewish State it's like saying I'm not anti-American I just saying I'm not anti-American I just saying I'm not anti-American I just don't think there should be an America don't think there should be an America don't think there should be an America that's basically what who what people that's basically what who what people that's basically what who what people are saying vis-a-vis are saying vis-a-vis are saying vis-a-vis anti-anti-semitism and anti-zionism uh anti-anti-semitism and anti-zionism uh anti-anti-semitism and anti-zionism uh when you say anti-zionism you're saying when you say anti-zionism you're saying when you say anti-zionism you're saying the Jewish people don't have a right to the Jewish people don't have a right to the Jewish people don't have a right to have a state of their own uh and that uh have a state of their own uh and that uh have a state of their own uh and that uh that is a denial of uh of a basic uh uh that is a denial of uh of a basic uh uh that is a denial of uh of a basic uh uh a basic principle that I think a basic principle that I think a basic principle that I think completely completely completely unmasks what is involved here today unmasks what is involved here today unmasks what is involved here today anti-Semitism is anti-zionism those who anti-Semitism is anti-zionism those who anti-Semitism is anti-zionism those who oppose the Jewish people oppose the oppose the Jewish people oppose the oppose the Jewish people oppose the Jewish state Jewish state Jewish state if we jump from human history to the if we jump from human history to the if we jump from human history to the current particular moment there's current particular moment there's current particular moment there's protests in Israel now about the protests in Israel now about the protests in Israel now about the proposed judicial reform that gives proposed judicial reform that gives proposed judicial reform that gives power to your government to override the power to your government to override the power to your government to override the Supreme Court so the critics say that Supreme Court so the critics say that Supreme Court so the critics say that this gives too much power to you this gives too much power to you this gives too much power to you virtually making you a dictator yeah virtually making you a dictator yeah virtually making you a dictator yeah well that's ridiculous the mere fact well that's ridiculous the mere fact well that's ridiculous the mere fact that you have so many demonstrations in that you have so many demonstrations in that you have so many demonstrations in protests some some dictatorship huh protests some some dictatorship huh protests some some dictatorship huh a lot of democracy here more more a lot of democracy here more more a lot of democracy here more more ambunctious and more robust than just ambunctious and more robust than just ambunctious and more robust than just anywhere on the planet can you still man anywhere on the planet can you still man anywhere on the planet can you still man the case that this gives this may give the case that this gives this may give the case that this gives this may give too much power to the the coalition too much power to the the coalition too much power to the the coalition government to the Prime Minister not government to the Prime Minister not government to the Prime Minister not just to you but to those who follow no I just to you but to those who follow no I just to you but to those who follow no I think that's complete hogwash because I think that's complete hogwash because I think that's complete hogwash because I I think there's uh there's a very few

I think there's uh there's a very few I think there's uh there's a very few people who are demonstrating against people who are demonstrating against people who are demonstrating against this quite a few well quite many don't this quite a few well quite many don't this quite a few well quite many don't have an idea what is being discussed have an idea what is being discussed have an idea what is being discussed they're basically being sloganized you they're basically being sloganized you they're basically being sloganized you can sloganize you know something about can sloganize you know something about can sloganize you know something about uh not mass media right now but the uh not mass media right now but the uh not mass media right now but the social network you can basically feed social network you can basically feed social network you can basically feed deliberately with big data and big money deliberately with big data and big money deliberately with big data and big money you can just feed uh slogans and get you can just feed uh slogans and get you can just feed uh slogans and get into people's minds I'm sure you don't into people's minds I'm sure you don't into people's minds I'm sure you don't think I exaggerated because you can tell think I exaggerated because you can tell think I exaggerated because you can tell me more about that and you can create me more about that and you can create me more about that and you can create Mass mobilization based on these absurd Mass mobilization based on these absurd Mass mobilization based on these absurd slogans so here here's where we I come slogans so here here's where we I come slogans so here here's where we I come from and what we're doing what we're from and what we're doing what we're from and what we're doing what we're trying to do and what we've changed and trying to do and what we've changed and trying to do and what we've changed and what we're trying to do I'm a 19th what we're trying to do I'm a 19th what we're trying to do I'm a 19th century Democrat in my uh small deal yes century Democrat in my uh small deal yes century Democrat in my uh small deal yes in My Views that is I view I asked the in My Views that is I view I asked the in My Views that is I view I asked the question what is democracy okay so question what is democracy okay so question what is democracy okay so democracy is uh is the will of the democracy is uh is the will of the democracy is uh is the will of the majority and the protection of the majority and the protection of the majority and the protection of the rights of they call it the rights of the rights of they call it the rights of the rights of they call it the rights of the minority but I say the rights of of the minority but I say the rights of of the minority but I say the rights of of the individual okay so how do you balance individual okay so how do you balance individual okay so how do you balance the two okay how do you get the how do the two okay how do you get the how do the two okay how do you get the how do you avoid mapocracy okay and how do you you avoid mapocracy okay and how do you you avoid mapocracy okay and how do you avoid dictatorship the opposite side the avoid dictatorship the opposite side the avoid dictatorship the opposite side the way you avoid it is something that was way you avoid it is something that was way you avoid it is something that was built essentially by British built essentially by British built essentially by British philosophers and French philosophers but philosophers and French philosophers but philosophers and French philosophers but uh was encapsulated by the founding uh was encapsulated by the founding uh was encapsulated by the founding fathers of the United States you create fathers of the United States you create fathers of the United States you create a balance between the three branches of a balance between the three branches of a balance between the three branches of government okay the legislative government okay the legislative government okay the legislative executive and the Judiciary and this

executive and the Judiciary and this executive and the Judiciary and this balance is what assures the balance balance is what assures the balance balance is what assures the balance between majority rights and individual between majority rights and individual between majority rights and individual rights and you have to balance all of rights and you have to balance all of rights and you have to balance all of them okay that balance was maintained in them okay that balance was maintained in them okay that balance was maintained in Israel in its first 50 years and was Israel in its first 50 years and was Israel in its first 50 years and was gradually over overtaken and basically gradually over overtaken and basically gradually over overtaken and basically broken by the most activist judicial broken by the most activist judicial broken by the most activist judicial court on the planet that's what happened court on the planet that's what happened court on the planet that's what happened here and gradually over the last uh two here and gradually over the last uh two here and gradually over the last uh two three decades the the court aggregated three decades the the court aggregated three decades the the court aggregated for itself the powers of the parliament for itself the powers of the parliament for itself the powers of the parliament and the executive so we're trying to and the executive so we're trying to and the executive so we're trying to bring it back into line bring it back bring it back into line bring it back bring it back into line bring it back into line into what is common in all into line into what is common in all into line into what is common in all parliamentary democracies and in the parliamentary democracies and in the parliamentary democracies and in the United States doesn't mean taking the United States doesn't mean taking the United States doesn't mean taking the pendulum from one side and bringing it pendulum from one side and bringing it pendulum from one side and bringing it to the other side we want checks and to the other side we want checks and to the other side we want checks and balances not balances not balances not unrivaled power just as we said we want unrivaled power just as we said we want unrivaled power just as we said we want an independent Judiciary but not an an independent Judiciary but not an an independent Judiciary but not an all-powerful Judiciary that balance does all-powerful Judiciary that balance does all-powerful Judiciary that balance does not mean bringing it back into line not mean bringing it back into line not mean bringing it back into line doesn't mean that you can have the uh doesn't mean that you can have the uh doesn't mean that you can have the uh the Parliament archness that override the Parliament archness that override the Parliament archness that override any decision that the Supreme Court does any decision that the Supreme Court does any decision that the Supreme Court does so I pretty much early on said after the so I pretty much early on said after the so I pretty much early on said after the judicial reform was introduced get rid judicial reform was introduced get rid judicial reform was introduced get rid of the idea of a sweeping override of the idea of a sweeping override of the idea of a sweeping override Clause that would have with 61 votes Clause that would have with 61 votes Clause that would have with 61 votes that's majority of one you can just that's majority of one you can just that's majority of one you can just nullify any Supreme Court decision so nullify any Supreme Court decision so nullify any Supreme Court decision so let's move it back into the center so let's move it back into the center so let's move it back into the center so that's gone and most of the criticism on that's gone and most of the criticism on that's gone and most of the criticism on the judicial reform was based on a on a

the judicial reform was based on a on a the judicial reform was based on a on a an unlimited override clause which I've an unlimited override clause which I've an unlimited override clause which I've said is simply not going to happen said is simply not going to happen said is simply not going to happen people are discussing something that people are discussing something that people are discussing something that already for six months does not exist already for six months does not exist already for six months does not exist the second point that we received the second point that we received the second point that we received criticism on was the uh the uh structure criticism on was the uh the uh structure criticism on was the uh the uh structure of how do you choose Supreme Court of how do you choose Supreme Court of how do you choose Supreme Court judges okay how do you support how do judges okay how do you support how do judges okay how do you support how do you choose them uh and uh the critics of you choose them uh and uh the critics of you choose them uh and uh the critics of uh the reform are saying that the idea uh the reform are saying that the idea uh the reform are saying that the idea that elected officials should choose that elected officials should choose that elected officials should choose Supreme Court judges is the end of Supreme Court judges is the end of Supreme Court judges is the end of democracy if that's the case the United democracy if that's the case the United democracy if that's the case the United States is not a democracy neither is States is not a democracy neither is States is not a democracy neither is France and other are just I don't know France and other are just I don't know France and other are just I don't know just about every uh every democracy on just about every uh every democracy on just about every uh every democracy on on the planet so there is a view here on the planet so there is a view here on the planet so there is a view here that uh you can't have the sordid hands that uh you can't have the sordid hands that uh you can't have the sordid hands of elected officials uh involved in the of elected officials uh involved in the of elected officials uh involved in the choosing of judges and in the Israeli choosing of judges and in the Israeli choosing of judges and in the Israeli system the judicial activism went so far system the judicial activism went so far system the judicial activism went so far that effectively the sitting judges have that effectively the sitting judges have that effectively the sitting judges have an effective veto and and an effective veto and and an effective veto and and choosing judges which means that this is choosing judges which means that this is choosing judges which means that this is a self-selecting court that just a self-selecting court that just a self-selecting court that just perpetrates itself and we want to perpetrates itself and we want to perpetrates itself and we want to correct that again want to correct it in correct that again want to correct it in correct that again want to correct it in a balanced way and that's basically what a balanced way and that's basically what a balanced way and that's basically what we're trying to do so I think there's a we're trying to do so I think there's a we're trying to do so I think there's a lot of misinformation about that we're lot of misinformation about that we're lot of misinformation about that we're trying to bring Israeli democracy to trying to bring Israeli democracy to trying to bring Israeli democracy to where it was in its first 50 years and where it was in its first 50 years and where it was in its first 50 years and it was a stellar democracy it still is it was a stellar democracy it still is it was a stellar democracy it still is Israel is a democracy it will remain a Israel is a democracy it will remain a Israel is a democracy it will remain a democracy uh a vibrant democracy and democracy uh a vibrant democracy and democracy uh a vibrant democracy and believe me the fact that people are believe me the fact that people are believe me the fact that people are arguing and demonstrating uh in the

arguing and demonstrating uh in the arguing and demonstrating uh in the streets and protesting is just is the streets and protesting is just is the streets and protesting is just is the best proof of that and that's how it best proof of that and that's how it best proof of that and that's how it will remain will remain will remain we spoke about tech companies offline we spoke about tech companies offline we spoke about tech companies offline there's a lot of tech companies nervous there's a lot of tech companies nervous there's a lot of tech companies nervous about this judicial reform can you speak about this judicial reform can you speak about this judicial reform can you speak to why a large and small companies have to why a large and small companies have to why a large and small companies have a future in Israel a future in Israel a future in Israel because Israel is a free market economy because Israel is a free market economy because Israel is a free market economy I had something to do with that I I had something to do with that I I had something to do with that I introduced dozens and dozens of free introduced dozens and dozens of free introduced dozens and dozens of free market reforms that made Israel move market reforms that made Israel move market reforms that made Israel move from seventeen thousand dollars per from seventeen thousand dollars per from seventeen thousand dollars per capita income capita income capita income to uh within a very short time to uh to uh within a very short time to uh to uh within a very short time to uh fifty four thousand dollars that's fifty four thousand dollars that's fifty four thousand dollars that's nominal GDP per capita according to the nominal GDP per capita according to the nominal GDP per capita according to the IMF and we've overtaken in that to Japan IMF and we've overtaken in that to Japan IMF and we've overtaken in that to Japan France Britain Germany how did that France Britain Germany how did that France Britain Germany how did that happen because we unleashed the happen because we unleashed the happen because we unleashed the the genius that we have in the the genius that we have in the the genius that we have in the initiative and the entrepreneurship that initiative and the entrepreneurship that initiative and the entrepreneurship that is latent in our population and to do is latent in our population and to do is latent in our population and to do that we had to create free markets so we that we had to create free markets so we that we had to create free markets so we created that so Israel has one of the created that so Israel has one of the created that so Israel has one of the most vibrant free market economies in most vibrant free market economies in most vibrant free market economies in the world and the second thing we have the world and the second thing we have the world and the second thing we have is a permanent investment in conceptual is a permanent investment in conceptual is a permanent investment in conceptual products because we have a permanent products because we have a permanent products because we have a permanent investment in um uh in the military in investment in um uh in the military in investment in um uh in the military in our security services creating uh our security services creating uh our security services creating uh basically knowledge workers who then basically knowledge workers who then basically knowledge workers who then become knowledge entrepreneurs and so we become knowledge entrepreneurs and so we become knowledge entrepreneurs and so we create this this structure and that's create this this structure and that's create this this structure and that's not going to go away there's been a not going to go away there's been a not going to go away there's been a decline in investments in the high-tech decline in investments in the high-tech decline in investments in the high-tech globally I think that's driven by many

globally I think that's driven by many globally I think that's driven by many factors but the most important one is factors but the most important one is factors but the most important one is the interest rate which which I think the interest rate which which I think the interest rate which which I think will it'll fluctuate up and down but will it'll fluctuate up and down but will it'll fluctuate up and down but Israel will remain a very attractive Israel will remain a very attractive Israel will remain a very attractive country because it produces so many country because it produces so many country because it produces so many so many knowledge workers in a so many knowledge workers in a so many knowledge workers in a knowledge-based economy and it's knowledge-based economy and it's knowledge-based economy and it's changing so rapidly the world is changing so rapidly the world is changing so rapidly the world is changing you're looking for the places changing you're looking for the places changing you're looking for the places that have Innovation the future belongs that have Innovation the future belongs that have Innovation the future belongs to this to those who innovate Israel is to this to those who innovate Israel is to this to those who innovate Israel is the uh preeminent Innovation Nation it the uh preeminent Innovation Nation it the uh preeminent Innovation Nation it has few competitors and I would say all has few competitors and I would say all has few competitors and I would say all right where do you have right where do you have right where do you have this close cross-disciplinary uh this close cross-disciplinary uh this close cross-disciplinary uh fermentation of various skills and areas fermentation of various skills and areas fermentation of various skills and areas I would say it's in Israel and I'll tell I would say it's in Israel and I'll tell I would say it's in Israel and I'll tell you why we used to be just telecoms you why we used to be just telecoms you why we used to be just telecoms because people went out of the you know because people went out of the you know because people went out of the you know Military Intelligence rnsa but that's Military Intelligence rnsa but that's Military Intelligence rnsa but that's been now broad-based so you find it in been now broad-based so you find it in been now broad-based so you find it in medicine you find it in biology you find medicine you find it in biology you find medicine you find it in biology you find it in uh agritech you find it everywhere it in uh agritech you find it everywhere it in uh agritech you find it everywhere everything is becoming technologized and everything is becoming technologized and everything is becoming technologized and in Israel everybody is dealing in in Israel everybody is dealing in in Israel everybody is dealing in everything everything everything and that's that's a potent uh reservoir and that's that's a potent uh reservoir and that's that's a potent uh reservoir of talent that the the world is not of talent that the the world is not of talent that the the world is not going to pass up and in fact is coming going to pass up and in fact is coming going to pass up and in fact is coming to us we just had Nvidia coming here uh to us we just had Nvidia coming here uh to us we just had Nvidia coming here uh and uh they decided to build a and uh they decided to build a and uh they decided to build a supercomputer in Israel wonder why we've supercomputer in Israel wonder why we've supercomputer in Israel wonder why we've had Intel coming here and deciding not had Intel coming here and deciding not had Intel coming here and deciding not to invest 25 billion dollars just now uh to invest 25 billion dollars just now uh to invest 25 billion dollars just now uh in a new plant in Israel I wonder why I

in a new plant in Israel I wonder why I in a new plant in Israel I wonder why I don't wonder why they know why because don't wonder why they know why because don't wonder why they know why because the talent is here and the freedom is the talent is here and the freedom is the talent is here and the freedom is here then it'll remain so here then it'll remain so here then it'll remain so so you had a conversation about AI with so you had a conversation about AI with so you had a conversation about AI with Sam Altman of open Ai and with Elon Musk Sam Altman of open Ai and with Elon Musk Sam Altman of open Ai and with Elon Musk yeah what was the content of that yeah what was the content of that yeah what was the content of that conversation what's your vision for sort conversation what's your vision for sort conversation what's your vision for sort of this very highest of of this very highest of of this very highest of Tech uh which is artificial intelligence Tech uh which is artificial intelligence Tech uh which is artificial intelligence well first of all I have a high regard well first of all I have a high regard well first of all I have a high regard for the people I talk to okay for the people I talk to okay for the people I talk to okay okay and I I understand that they okay and I I understand that they okay and I I understand that they understand things I don't understand and understand things I don't understand and understand things I don't understand and I don't pretend to understand everything I don't pretend to understand everything I don't pretend to understand everything but I do understand one thing I but I do understand one thing I but I do understand one thing I understand that the AI understand that the AI understand that the AI is developing at a geometric rate is developing at a geometric rate is developing at a geometric rate and mostly in in political life and in and mostly in in political life and in and mostly in in political life and in life in general people don't have an life in general people don't have an life in general people don't have an intuitive grasp of geometric growth you intuitive grasp of geometric growth you intuitive grasp of geometric growth you understand things basically in linear understand things basically in linear understand things basically in linear increments uh and the idea that you're increments uh and the idea that you're increments uh and the idea that you're coming up a ski slope is very foreign to coming up a ski slope is very foreign to coming up a ski slope is very foreign to people so I don't understand it and people so I don't understand it and people so I don't understand it and they're they're they're naturally also um naturally also um naturally also um sort of taken aback by it because what sort of taken aback by it because what sort of taken aback by it because what do you do okay so I think the the there do you do okay so I think the the there do you do okay so I think the the there are several conclusions from my are several conclusions from my are several conclusions from my conversations with the with them and conversations with the with them and conversations with the with them and from my uh other observations that I've from my uh other observations that I've from my uh other observations that I've been talking about for many years I'm been talking about for many years I'm been talking about for many years I'm talking about the need to do this well talking about the need to do this well talking about the need to do this well the first thing is this the first thing is this the first thing is this there is no possibility of not entering there is no possibility of not entering there is no possibility of not entering AI with full force AI with full force AI with full force secondly there is a need for regulation secondly there is a need for regulation secondly there is a need for regulation third it's not clear there will be

third it's not clear there will be third it's not clear there will be Global regulation fourth uh it's not Global regulation fourth uh it's not Global regulation fourth uh it's not clear where it ends up I I certainly clear where it ends up I I certainly clear where it ends up I I certainly cannot say that now you might say does cannot say that now you might say does cannot say that now you might say does it come to control us okay that's it come to control us okay that's it come to control us okay that's question does it come to control us question does it come to control us question does it come to control us I don't know the answer to that uh I don't know the answer to that uh I don't know the answer to that uh I think that is uh I think that is uh I think that is uh as one uh observation that I had from as one uh observation that I had from as one uh observation that I had from these conversations these conversations these conversations is if it does come to control us that's is if it does come to control us that's is if it does come to control us that's probably the only chance of having a probably the only chance of having a probably the only chance of having a universal regulation because I don't see universal regulation because I don't see universal regulation because I don't see anyone anyone deciding to uh you know to anyone anyone deciding to uh you know to anyone anyone deciding to uh you know to uh uh uh avoid the race and cooperate unless you avoid the race and cooperate unless you avoid the race and cooperate unless you have that threat doesn't mean you can't have that threat doesn't mean you can't have that threat doesn't mean you can't regulate AI within countries even regulate AI within countries even regulate AI within countries even without that understanding but it does without that understanding but it does without that understanding but it does mean that there's a limit to regulation mean that there's a limit to regulation mean that there's a limit to regulation because every country will want to make because every country will want to make because every country will want to make sure that it's not uh doesn't give up sure that it's not uh doesn't give up sure that it's not uh doesn't give up competitive Advantage if there is no competitive Advantage if there is no competitive Advantage if there is no Universal regulation Universal regulation Universal regulation I think that right now just as you know I think that right now just as you know I think that right now just as you know 10 years ago I read um 10 years ago I read um 10 years ago I read um I read a novel I don't read novels but I I read a novel I don't read novels but I I read a novel I don't read novels but I was forced to read one by a Scientific was forced to read one by a Scientific was forced to read one by a Scientific Advisor I read history I read about Advisor I read history I read about Advisor I read history I read about economics I read about technology I just economics I read about technology I just economics I read about technology I just don't read novels okay and this time uh don't read novels okay and this time uh don't read novels okay and this time uh follow Churchill you know he said fact follow Churchill you know he said fact follow Churchill you know he said fact is better than Fiction well this fiction is better than Fiction well this fiction is better than Fiction well this fiction would become fact and it was a book it would become fact and it was a book it would become fact and it was a book it was a novel about

was a novel about was a novel about a chinese-american's future cyber war a chinese-american's future cyber war a chinese-american's future cyber war and I read the book one sitting called and I read the book one sitting called and I read the book one sitting called in a team of experts and I said all in a team of experts and I said all in a team of experts and I said all right let's uh let's turn Israel into uh right let's uh let's turn Israel into uh right let's uh let's turn Israel into uh one of the world's five cyber powers and one of the world's five cyber powers and one of the world's five cyber powers and let's do it very quickly and we did let's do it very quickly and we did let's do it very quickly and we did actually we did we did exactly that actually we did we did exactly that actually we did we did exactly that uh I think AI uh I think AI uh I think AI is bigger than that and related to that is bigger than that and related to that is bigger than that and related to that because it'll affect well cyber affects because it'll affect well cyber affects because it'll affect well cyber affects everything but AI will affect it even everything but AI will affect it even everything but AI will affect it even more fundamentally and the joining of more fundamentally and the joining of more fundamentally and the joining of the two could be very powerful so I the two could be very powerful so I the two could be very powerful so I think in Israel we have to think in Israel we have to think in Israel we have to we have to do it anyway for security we have to do it anyway for security we have to do it anyway for security reasons when we're doing it but I think reasons when we're doing it but I think reasons when we're doing it but I think what about what about what about what about our databases that are what about our databases that are what about our databases that are already very robust on on the medical already very robust on on the medical already very robust on on the medical records of 98 of our population records of 98 of our population records of 98 of our population why don't we stick a genetic database on why don't we stick a genetic database on why don't we stick a genetic database on that why don't we do other things that that why don't we do other things that that why don't we do other things that can bring magical can bring magical can bring magical what seem are seemingly magical cures what seem are seemingly magical cures what seem are seemingly magical cures and drugs and medical instruments for and drugs and medical instruments for and drugs and medical instruments for that that's one possibility we have it that that's one possibility we have it that that's one possibility we have it in as I said in every single field the in as I said in every single field the in as I said in every single field the conclusion is this we have to move on AI conclusion is this we have to move on AI conclusion is this we have to move on AI we are moving on AI just as we moved on we are moving on AI just as we moved on we are moving on AI just as we moved on Cyber and I think Israel will be one of Cyber and I think Israel will be one of Cyber and I think Israel will be one of the leading uh one of the leading AI uh the leading uh one of the leading AI uh the leading uh one of the leading AI uh powers in the world the questions I powers in the world the questions I powers in the world the questions I don't have an answer to Is don't have an answer to Is don't have an answer to Is where does it go where does it go where does it go how much does it eat chew up on on jobs

how much does it eat chew up on on jobs how much does it eat chew up on on jobs there's an assumption that I'm not sure there's an assumption that I'm not sure there's an assumption that I'm not sure is true is true is true that all previous the two big that all previous the two big that all previous the two big uh previous uh previous uh previous Revolutions in The Human Condition Revolutions in The Human Condition Revolutions in The Human Condition namely the Agricultural Revolution and namely the Agricultural Revolution and namely the Agricultural Revolution and the Industrial Revolution the Industrial Revolution the Industrial Revolution definitely produce more jobs than they definitely produce more jobs than they definitely produce more jobs than they um than they consumed okay that is not um than they consumed okay that is not um than they consumed okay that is not obvious to me at all obvious to me at all obvious to me at all I mean I could see new jobs creating and I mean I could see new jobs creating and I mean I could see new jobs creating and yes I have that you know that comforting yes I have that you know that comforting yes I have that you know that comforting statement statement statement but it's not quite true but it's not quite true but it's not quite true because I think on balance they'll because I think on balance they'll because I think on balance they'll probably consume more jobs many more probably consume more jobs many more probably consume more jobs many more jobs than they'll create at least in the jobs than they'll create at least in the jobs than they'll create at least in the short term short term short term and we don't know about the long term no and we don't know about the long term no and we don't know about the long term no I don't know about the long term but I I don't know about the long term but I I don't know about the long term but I used to have the Comfort being a free used to have the Comfort being a free used to have the Comfort being a free market guy I always said you know we're market guy I always said you know we're market guy I always said you know we're going to produce more jobs than you know going to produce more jobs than you know going to produce more jobs than you know buy I don't know limiting certain buy I don't know limiting certain buy I don't know limiting certain government jobs we're actually putting government jobs we're actually putting government jobs we're actually putting out in the market will create more jobs out in the market will create more jobs out in the market will create more jobs which obviously happen you know we had which obviously happen you know we had which obviously happen you know we had one Telecom company a government company one Telecom company a government company one Telecom company a government company when I said we're going to you know when I said we're going to you know when I said we're going to you know we're going to create competition they we're going to create competition they we're going to create competition they said you're going to run us out we're said you're going to run us out we're said you're going to run us out we're not going to have more workers yeah they not going to have more workers yeah they not going to have more workers yeah they had 13 000 workers they went down to uh had 13 000 workers they went down to uh had 13 000 workers they went down to uh seven but we created another forty seven but we created another forty seven but we created another forty thousand uh in the other companies so thousand uh in the other companies so thousand uh in the other companies so that was a comforting thought I always that was a comforting thought I always that was a comforting thought I always knew that was true okay not only that I knew that was true okay not only that I knew that was true okay not only that I also knew that wealth would spread by also knew that wealth would spread by also knew that wealth would spread by opening up the markets completely opening up the markets completely opening up the markets completely opposite to the uh socialist and opposite to the uh socialist and opposite to the uh socialist and semi-socialist agree that they had here semi-socialist agree that they had here semi-socialist agree that they had here uh they said you're going to make the uh they said you're going to make the uh they said you're going to make the rich richer and the poor poor no and

rich richer and the poor poor no and rich richer and the poor poor no and made everyone richer and actually uh the made everyone richer and actually uh the made everyone richer and actually uh the people who entered the job market people who entered the job market people who entered the job market because of the reforms we did actually because of the reforms we did actually because of the reforms we did actually became a lot richer the on the the became a lot richer the on the the became a lot richer the on the the lowest the the lower uh ladders of uh lowest the the lower uh ladders of uh lowest the the lower uh ladders of uh the socioeconomic uh measure but here's the socioeconomic uh measure but here's the socioeconomic uh measure but here's the point I don't know I don't know that the point I don't know I don't know that the point I don't know I don't know that that we will not have that we will not have that we will not have what uh Elon Musk calls the end of what uh Elon Musk calls the end of what uh Elon Musk calls the end of scarcity scarcity scarcity so you'll have the end of scarcity so you'll have the end of scarcity so you'll have the end of scarcity you'll have enormous productivity you'll have enormous productivity you'll have enormous productivity you know very few people are producing you know very few people are producing you know very few people are producing enormous added value enormous added value enormous added value you're going to have to tax that to pass you're going to have to tax that to pass you're going to have to tax that to pass it to the others okay you're gonna have it to the others okay you're gonna have it to the others okay you're gonna have to do that that's a political question to do that that's a political question to do that that's a political question I'm not sure how we answer that what if I'm not sure how we answer that what if I'm not sure how we answer that what if you tax and somebody else doesn't tax you tax and somebody else doesn't tax you tax and somebody else doesn't tax you're going to get everybody to go you're going to get everybody to go you're going to get everybody to go there that's an issue an international there that's an issue an international there that's an issue an international issue that we constantly have to deal issue that we constantly have to deal issue that we constantly have to deal with and the second question you have with and the second question you have with and the second question you have is is is suppose you solve that problem suppose you solve that problem suppose you solve that problem and you deliver and you deliver and you deliver uh money okay uh money okay uh money okay to those who are not involved in the AI to those who are not involved in the AI to those who are not involved in the AI economy economy economy what do they do what do they do what do they do the first question you ask somebody the first question you ask somebody the first question you ask somebody whom you just met after the polite you whom you just met after the polite you whom you just met after the polite you know the polite exchanges is what do you know the polite exchanges is what do you know the polite exchanges is what do you do right well people Define themselves do right well people Define themselves do right well people Define themselves by their profession by their profession by their profession uh and it's going to be difficult if you uh and it's going to be difficult if you uh and it's going to be difficult if you don't have a profession and you know don't have a profession and you know don't have a profession and you know people will spend more time people will spend more time people will spend more time self-searching they'll more time and uh

self-searching they'll more time and uh self-searching they'll more time and uh in the Arts more time and Leisure I in the Arts more time and Leisure I in the Arts more time and Leisure I understand that if I have to bet understand that if I have to bet understand that if I have to bet it will annihilate many more jobs than it will annihilate many more jobs than it will annihilate many more jobs than it will create and it will force a it will create and it will force a it will create and it will force a structural change in our economics in structural change in our economics in structural change in our economics in our economic models and in our politics our economic models and in our politics our economic models and in our politics uh and I'm not sure where it's going to uh and I'm not sure where it's going to uh and I'm not sure where it's going to go and that's something we have to go and that's something we have to go and that's something we have to respond to at the nation level and just respond to at the nation level and just respond to at the nation level and just as a human civilization both the threat as a human civilization both the threat as a human civilization both the threat of AI to just of AI to just of AI to just us as a human species and then the us as a human species and then the us as a human species and then the effect on the jobs and like you said effect on the jobs and like you said effect on the jobs and like you said cyber security and what do you think you cyber security and what do you think you cyber security and what do you think you think you think it's gonna we're gonna think you think it's gonna we're gonna think you think it's gonna we're gonna lose control lose control lose control no I first of all I do believe maybe no I first of all I do believe maybe no I first of all I do believe maybe naively that it will create more jobs naively that it will create more jobs naively that it will create more jobs than it takes write that down and we'll than it takes write that down and we'll than it takes write that down and we'll check it it's on record and you know we check it it's on record and you know we check it it's on record and you know we don't have we don't say we'll check it don't have we don't say we'll check it don't have we don't say we'll check it after our lifetime no we'll see it in a after our lifetime no we'll see it in a after our lifetime no we'll see it in a few years we'll see in a few years I'm few years we'll see in a few years I'm few years we'll see in a few years I'm really concerned about cyber security really concerned about cyber security really concerned about cyber security and the nature of how that changes with and the nature of how that changes with and the nature of how that changes with the power of AI the power of AI the power of AI and in terms of existential threats and in terms of existential threats and in terms of existential threats I think there will be so much threats I think there will be so much threats I think there will be so much threats that aren't existential along the way that aren't existential along the way that aren't existential along the way that that's the thing I'm mostly that that's the thing I'm mostly that that's the thing I'm mostly concerned about concerned about concerned about um versus AI taking complete control and um versus AI taking complete control and um versus AI taking complete control and becoming sort of superseding the human becoming sort of superseding the human becoming sort of superseding the human species uh although that is something species uh although that is something species uh although that is something you should consider seriously uh because you should consider seriously uh because you should consider seriously uh because of the exponential growth of its of the exponential growth of its of the exponential growth of its capability it's exactly the exponential capability it's exactly the exponential capability it's exactly the exponential growth which we understand growth which we understand growth which we understand uh is before us but we don't really it's uh is before us but we don't really it's uh is before us but we don't really it's very hard to project forward to really

very hard to project forward to really very hard to project forward to really understand that's right exactly right so understand that's right exactly right so understand that's right exactly right so you know I'm so I deal with what I can you know I'm so I deal with what I can you know I'm so I deal with what I can where I can affect something I tend not where I can affect something I tend not where I can affect something I tend not to worry about things I don't control to worry about things I don't control to worry about things I don't control because at a certain point you know because at a certain point you know because at a certain point you know there's no point I mean you have to there's no point I mean you have to there's no point I mean you have to decide what you're spending your time on decide what you're spending your time on decide what you're spending your time on so I think in Practical terms I think so I think in Practical terms I think so I think in Practical terms I think we'll make we'll make we'll make um we'll make Israel a formidable AI um we'll make Israel a formidable AI um we'll make Israel a formidable AI power we understand the limitation of power we understand the limitation of power we understand the limitation of scale computing power scale computing power scale computing power and other things but I think within and other things but I think within and other things but I think within those limits I think we can uh make here those limits I think we can uh make here those limits I think we can uh make here this miracle that we move we did in many this miracle that we move we did in many this miracle that we move we did in many other things uh you know we do more with other things uh you know we do more with other things uh you know we do more with less I don't care if it's water the less I don't care if it's water the less I don't care if it's water the production of water or the production of production of water or the production of production of water or the production of energy or the production of knowledge of energy or the production of knowledge of energy or the production of knowledge of the production of cyber capabilities the production of cyber capabilities the production of cyber capabilities defense and other uh we just do more defense and other uh we just do more defense and other uh we just do more with less and I think in AI we're going with less and I think in AI we're going with less and I think in AI we're going to do a lot more uh with uh relatively to do a lot more uh with uh relatively to do a lot more uh with uh relatively small but highly gifted population very small but highly gifted population very small but highly gifted population very gifted gifted gifted so taking a small tangent as we talked so taking a small tangent as we talked so taking a small tangent as we talked about offline uh you have a uh a about offline uh you have a uh a about offline uh you have a uh a background in Taekwondo oh yeah yeah background in Taekwondo oh yeah yeah background in Taekwondo oh yeah yeah we'll mention Elon Musk I've trained we'll mention Elon Musk I've trained we'll mention Elon Musk I've trained with both this is a quick question Who with both this is a quick question Who with both this is a quick question Who do you have uh who are you betting on in do you have uh who are you betting on in do you have uh who are you betting on in a fight well uh I refuse to answer that a fight well uh I refuse to answer that a fight well uh I refuse to answer that uh I will say this such a politician you uh I will say this such a politician you uh I will say this such a politician you are yeah of course uh here I'm a are yeah of course uh here I'm a are yeah of course uh here I'm a politician I'm openly telling you that politician I'm openly telling you that politician I'm openly telling you that I'm dodging the question okay but I'll I'm dodging the question okay but I'll I'm dodging the question okay but I'll say this uh you know I I actually I

say this uh you know I I actually I say this uh you know I I actually I spent five years in our special forces spent five years in our special forces spent five years in our special forces uh in in the military and we barely uh in in the military and we barely uh in in the military and we barely spent a minute uh on martial arts spent a minute uh on martial arts spent a minute uh on martial arts actually actually actually learn Taekwondo later when I came to uh learn Taekwondo later when I came to uh learn Taekwondo later when I came to uh and it wasn't even at MIT at MIT I think and it wasn't even at MIT at MIT I think and it wasn't even at MIT at MIT I think I did Karate but when I came to the U.N I did Karate but when I came to the U.N I did Karate but when I came to the U.N I had a martial arts expert and he I had a martial arts expert and he I had a martial arts expert and he taught me Taekwondo which was kind of taught me Taekwondo which was kind of taught me Taekwondo which was kind of interesting now the question you really interesting now the question you really interesting now the question you really have to ask is why did we learn martial have to ask is why did we learn martial have to ask is why did we learn martial arts in this special uh Elite unit and arts in this special uh Elite unit and arts in this special uh Elite unit and the answer is the answer is the answer is there's no point if you signed Deanna there's no point if you signed Deanna there's no point if you signed Deanna Jones you know there's no point you just Jones you know there's no point you just Jones you know there's no point you just you know pull the trigger that's simple you know pull the trigger that's simple you know pull the trigger that's simple now I don't expect anyone to pull the now I don't expect anyone to pull the now I don't expect anyone to pull the trigger on this combat and I'm I'm sure trigger on this combat and I'm I'm sure trigger on this combat and I'm I'm sure you'll you'll make sure that doesn't you'll you'll make sure that doesn't you'll you'll make sure that doesn't happen happen happen yeah I mean martial arts is it's kind of yeah I mean martial arts is it's kind of yeah I mean martial arts is it's kind of it's bigger than just combat it's this it's bigger than just combat it's this it's bigger than just combat it's this kind of Journey of humility and it has kind of Journey of humility and it has kind of Journey of humility and it has uh it's an art form it truly is an art uh it's an art form it truly is an art uh it's an art form it truly is an art but it's fascinating these two figures but it's fascinating these two figures but it's fascinating these two figures in Tech are facing each other and uh I in Tech are facing each other and uh I in Tech are facing each other and uh I won't ask a question of who you would won't ask a question of who you would won't ask a question of who you would face and how you would do but um well face and how you would do but um well face and how you would do but um well I'm facing I'm facing I'm facing opponents all the time all the time yeah opponents all the time all the time yeah opponents all the time all the time yeah that's part of life but you know Part of that's part of life but you know Part of that's part of life but you know Part of Life part of life is not yet I'm not Life part of life is not yet I'm not Life part of life is not yet I'm not sure about that are you announcing uh sure about that are you announcing uh sure about that are you announcing uh you know part of life is competition you you know part of life is competition you you know part of life is competition you know you know the only time competition know you know the only time competition know you know the only time competition ends is ends is ends is death but you know political life

death but you know political life death but you know political life economic life economic life economic life cultural life is engaged continuously in cultural life is engaged continuously in cultural life is engaged continuously in creativity and competition and uh the creativity and competition and uh the creativity and competition and uh the the problem I have with that is as I the problem I have with that is as I the problem I have with that is as I mentioned earlier just before we began mentioned earlier just before we began mentioned earlier just before we began the podcast is that uh the podcast is that uh the podcast is that uh at a certain point you want to put at a certain point you want to put at a certain point you want to put barriers to Monopoly barriers to Monopoly barriers to Monopoly and if you're in a really able and if you're in a really able and if you're in a really able competitor you're going to create a competitor you're going to create a competitor you're going to create a monopoly that's what Peter till says is monopoly that's what Peter till says is monopoly that's what Peter till says is a natural course of things it's what I a natural course of things it's what I a natural course of things it's what I learned and uh basically in the Boston learned and uh basically in the Boston learned and uh basically in the Boston Consulting Group if you're a very able Consulting Group if you're a very able Consulting Group if you're a very able competitor you'll create scale competitor you'll create scale competitor you'll create scale advantages that give you the ability to advantages that give you the ability to advantages that give you the ability to lock out your competition and as a prime lock out your competition and as a prime lock out your competition and as a prime minister I want to assure that there is minister I want to assure that there is minister I want to assure that there is competition in the market so you have to competition in the market so you have to competition in the market so you have to limit uh limit this competitive power at limit uh limit this competitive power at limit uh limit this competitive power at a certain point and that becomes a certain point and that becomes a certain point and that becomes increasingly hard uh in the in the world increasingly hard uh in the in the world increasingly hard uh in the in the world where everything is intermissed where do where everything is intermissed where do where everything is intermissed where do you define market segments where do you you define market segments where do you you define market segments where do you define uh Monopoly uh how do you do that define uh Monopoly uh how do you do that define uh Monopoly uh how do you do that that is very that that actually that is very that that actually that is very that that actually conceptually I find very challenging conceptually I find very challenging conceptually I find very challenging because of all the dozens of political because of all the dozens of political because of all the dozens of political of economic reforms that I've made of economic reforms that I've made of economic reforms that I've made the most difficult part is the the most difficult part is the the most difficult part is the conceptual part once you have you've conceptual part once you have you've conceptual part once you have you've ironed it out you say here's what I want ironed it out you say here's what I want ironed it out you say here's what I want to do here's the right thing to do then to do here's the right thing to do then to do here's the right thing to do then you have a practical problem of you have a practical problem of you have a practical problem of overcoming Union resistance political overcoming Union resistance political overcoming Union resistance political resistance press Calamity uh you know resistance press Calamity uh you know resistance press Calamity uh you know opponents from this or that corner

opponents from this or that corner opponents from this or that corner that's a practical matter but if you that's a practical matter but if you that's a practical matter but if you have it conceptually defined you can have it conceptually defined you can have it conceptually defined you can move ahead to uh reformed economies or move ahead to uh reformed economies or move ahead to uh reformed economies or reform education or reform reform education or reform reform education or reform Transportation fine in the question of Transportation fine in the question of Transportation fine in the question of The Growing Power of large companies The Growing Power of large companies The Growing Power of large companies big tech companies to monopolize the big tech companies to monopolize the big tech companies to monopolize the markets because they're better at it markets because they're better at it markets because they're better at it they provide a service they provided they provide a service they provided they provide a service they provided lower cost it rapidly declined costs lower cost it rapidly declined costs lower cost it rapidly declined costs where do you stop where do you uh where where do you stop where do you uh where where do you stop where do you uh where do you stop in a monopoly power is a do you stop in a monopoly power is a do you stop in a monopoly power is a crucial question because it also becomes crucial question because it also becomes crucial question because it also becomes now a political question if you're a now a political question if you're a now a political question if you're a mass enormous amount of economic power mass enormous amount of economic power mass enormous amount of economic power which is information power you know that which is information power you know that which is information power you know that also monopolizes the political process also monopolizes the political process also monopolizes the political process which creates these are real questions which creates these are real questions which creates these are real questions that are not obvious I don't have an that are not obvious I don't have an that are not obvious I don't have an obvious answer because as I said as a obvious answer because as I said as a obvious answer because as I said as a 19th century Democrat these are 19th century Democrat these are 19th century Democrat these are questions of the 21st century which questions of the 21st century which questions of the 21st century which people should people should people should should begin to think do you have a should begin to think do you have a should begin to think do you have a solution to that solution to that solution to that the solution of monopoly's growing the solution of monopoly's growing the solution of monopoly's growing arbitrarily unstoppably in power an arbitrarily unstoppably in power an arbitrarily unstoppably in power an economic power and therefore in economic power and therefore in economic power and therefore in political power I mean some of that is political power I mean some of that is political power I mean some of that is regulation some of that is competition regulation some of that is competition regulation some of that is competition you know where you know where you know where to put to draw the line to put to draw the line to put to draw the line it's not breaking up at T you know it's it's not breaking up at T you know it's it's not breaking up at T you know it's not that simple not that simple not that simple well I believe in the power of well I believe in the power of well I believe in the power of competition that there will always be competition that there will always be competition that there will always be somebody that challenges the big guys

somebody that challenges the big guys somebody that challenges the big guys especially in the space of AI especially in the space of AI especially in the space of AI uh the more open source movements are uh the more open source movements are uh the more open source movements are taking hold the more the little guy can taking hold the more the little guy can taking hold the more the little guy can become the big guy so you're saying become the big guy so you're saying become the big guy so you're saying basically the regulatory the the basically the regulatory the the basically the regulatory the the regulatory uh instrument is the market regulatory uh instrument is the market regulatory uh instrument is the market in large part in most part that's the in large part in most part that's the in large part in most part that's the hope maybe I'm a dreamer that's been in hope maybe I'm a dreamer that's been in hope maybe I'm a dreamer that's been in many ways by policy up to now many ways by policy up to now many ways by policy up to now okay that the best regulator okay that the best regulator okay that the best regulator uh is the market the best regulator in uh is the market the best regulator in uh is the market the best regulator in economic uh in economic activity is the economic uh in economic activity is the economic uh in economic activity is the market market market and the best regulator in political and the best regulator in political and the best regulator in political matters is a political Market that's matters is a political Market that's matters is a political Market that's called elections that's what that's what called elections that's what that's what called elections that's what that's what regulates you know you have a lousy regulates you know you have a lousy regulates you know you have a lousy government uh and people make lousy government uh and people make lousy government uh and people make lousy decisions well you don't need uh you decisions well you don't need uh you decisions well you don't need uh you know the wise men raised above the uh know the wise men raised above the uh know the wise men raised above the uh you know the the masses to decide what you know the the masses to decide what you know the the masses to decide what is good and what is bad let the masses is good and what is bad let the masses is good and what is bad let the masses decide let them vote every four years or decide let them vote every four years or decide let them vote every four years or whatever and they throw you up by the whatever and they throw you up by the whatever and they throw you up by the way it happened to me there's life after way it happened to me there's life after way it happened to me there's life after political death there's actually political death there's actually political death there's actually political life I was reelected five or political life I was reelected five or political life I was reelected five or six times and this is my sixth term so six times and this is my sixth term so six times and this is my sixth term so you know that I believe in that I'm not you know that I believe in that I'm not you know that I believe in that I'm not sure sure sure I'm not sure that in economic matters in I'm not sure that in economic matters in I'm not sure that in economic matters in the geometric growth of tech companies the geometric growth of tech companies the geometric growth of tech companies that you'll always have the little guy that you'll always have the little guy that you'll always have the little guy the Nimble mammal that will come out and the Nimble mammal that will come out and the Nimble mammal that will come out and slay the dinosaurs or overcome the slay the dinosaurs or overcome the slay the dinosaurs or overcome the dinosaurs uh which is essentially what dinosaurs uh which is essentially what dinosaurs uh which is essentially what you said yeah I wouldn't count out the

you said yeah I wouldn't count out the you said yeah I wouldn't count out the little guy you wouldn't count out the little guy you wouldn't count out the little guy you wouldn't count out the loom well I hope you're right loom well I hope you're right loom well I hope you're right uh well let me ask you about this uh uh well let me ask you about this uh uh well let me ask you about this uh Market of politics so you have uh served Market of politics so you have uh served Market of politics so you have uh served six terms as prime minister over 15 six terms as prime minister over 15 six terms as prime minister over 15 years in power let me ask you again years in power let me ask you again years in power let me ask you again human nature do you worry about the human nature do you worry about the human nature do you worry about the corrupting nature of power on you as a corrupting nature of power on you as a corrupting nature of power on you as a leader and you as a man not at all uh leader and you as a man not at all uh leader and you as a man not at all uh because I I think that the again the the because I I think that the again the the because I I think that the again the the thing that drives me is not uh is thing that drives me is not uh is thing that drives me is not uh is nothing but the mission that I took to nothing but the mission that I took to nothing but the mission that I took to assure the uh the survival and thriving assure the uh the survival and thriving assure the uh the survival and thriving of the state the Jewish state that is of the state the Jewish state that is of the state the Jewish state that is its economic Prosperity uh but it's its economic Prosperity uh but it's its economic Prosperity uh but it's security and its ability to achieve security and its ability to achieve security and its ability to achieve peace with our neighbors and I'm I'm peace with our neighbors and I'm I'm peace with our neighbors and I'm I'm committed to it I think there's still committed to it I think there's still committed to it I think there's still there are many things that have been there are many things that have been there are many things that have been done there are a few big things that I done there are a few big things that I done there are a few big things that I can still do but it doesn't only depend can still do but it doesn't only depend can still do but it doesn't only depend on my sense of mission it depends on on my sense of mission it depends on on my sense of mission it depends on the market as we say depends really on the market as we say depends really on the market as we say depends really on the will of the Israeli voters and the will of the Israeli voters and the will of the Israeli voters and Israeli voters have decided to vote for Israeli voters have decided to vote for Israeli voters have decided to vote for me again again even though I wield no me again again even though I wield no me again again even though I wield no power in the Press power in the Press power in the Press no power in in many quarters here uh and no power in in many quarters here uh and no power in in many quarters here uh and so on nothing I mean I am probably I'm so on nothing I mean I am probably I'm so on nothing I mean I am probably I'm going to be very soon the longest going to be very soon the longest going to be very soon the longest serving uh prime minister in the last serving uh prime minister in the last serving uh prime minister in the last half century in the western democracies half century in the western democracies half century in the western democracies but that's not because I I am Mass great but that's not because I I am Mass great but that's not because I I am Mass great political power in any of the political power in any of the political power in any of the institutions I remember I had a

institutions I remember I had a institutions I remember I had a conversation with uh conversation with uh conversation with uh Silvio Berlusconi who recently died and Silvio Berlusconi who recently died and Silvio Berlusconi who recently died and he said to me about uh I don't know 15 he said to me about uh I don't know 15 he said to me about uh I don't know 15 years ago something like that he said so years ago something like that he said so years ago something like that he said so baby uh how many uh uh how many uh of baby uh how many uh uh how many uh of baby uh how many uh uh how many uh of the Israel's uh uh television stations the Israel's uh uh television stations the Israel's uh uh television stations and you have and I said none he said you and you have and I said none he said you and you have and I said none he said you have none you have do you have I said have none you have do you have I said have none you have do you have I said none I have two he said no no but what none I have two he said no no but what none I have two he said no no but what you mean you don't have any that you you mean you don't have any that you you mean you don't have any that you control I said not only do I have any control I said not only do I have any control I said not only do I have any none that I control they're all against none that I control they're all against none that I control they're all against me so he says so how do you win me so he says so how do you win me so he says so how do you win elections and you know with both hands elections and you know with both hands elections and you know with both hands tied behind your back and I said the tied behind your back and I said the tied behind your back and I said the hard way uh that's why you know I have hard way uh that's why you know I have hard way uh that's why you know I have the largest party but I don't have many the largest party but I don't have many the largest party but I don't have many more seats that I would have if I had a more seats that I would have if I had a more seats that I would have if I had a sympathetic uh voice in the media and sympathetic uh voice in the media and sympathetic uh voice in the media and Israel is until recently was dominated Israel is until recently was dominated Israel is until recently was dominated completely by one side of the political completely by one side of the political completely by one side of the political spectrum that uh you know often uh spectrum that uh you know often uh spectrum that uh you know often uh vilified me not not me because they vilified me not not me because they vilified me not not me because they viewed me as representing basically the viewed me as representing basically the viewed me as representing basically the conservative voices in Israel that are conservative voices in Israel that are conservative voices in Israel that are majority in uh so the idea that I'm an majority in uh so the idea that I'm an majority in uh so the idea that I'm an omnipotent authoritarian omnipotent authoritarian omnipotent authoritarian dictator is ridiculous I'm uh I would dictator is ridiculous I'm uh I would dictator is ridiculous I'm uh I would say I'm a not merely a champion of uh of say I'm a not merely a champion of uh of say I'm a not merely a champion of uh of uh democracy and democratization I'm uh uh democracy and democratization I'm uh uh democracy and democratization I'm uh I believe ultimately the decision is

I believe ultimately the decision is I believe ultimately the decision is with the voters and the voters even with the voters and the voters even with the voters and the voters even though they've had you know they have though they've had you know they have though they've had you know they have constant constant uh press attacks uh constant constant uh press attacks uh constant constant uh press attacks uh they have chosen to put me back in so I they have chosen to put me back in so I they have chosen to put me back in so I don't believe in this thing of amassing don't believe in this thing of amassing don't believe in this thing of amassing the corrupting power of if you don't the corrupting power of if you don't the corrupting power of if you don't have elections have elections have elections if you don't have if you control uh the if you don't have if you control uh the if you don't have if you control uh the the means of influencing the voters I'd the means of influencing the voters I'd the means of influencing the voters I'd understand uh what you're saying but in understand uh what you're saying but in understand uh what you're saying but in my case it's the exact opposite I have my case it's the exact opposite I have my case it's the exact opposite I have to constantly go in elections constantly to constantly go in elections constantly to constantly go in elections constantly uh uh you know with a disadvantage that uh uh you know with a disadvantage that uh uh you know with a disadvantage that the major media Outlets are very the major media Outlets are very the major media Outlets are very violently sometimes against me but it's violently sometimes against me but it's violently sometimes against me but it's fine and I keep on winning so I I don't fine and I keep on winning so I I don't fine and I keep on winning so I I don't know what you're talking I would say the know what you're talking I would say the know what you're talking I would say the concentration of power lies elsewhere concentration of power lies elsewhere concentration of power lies elsewhere not here not here not here well you have been involved in several well you have been involved in several well you have been involved in several corruption cases how much corruption is corruption cases how much corruption is corruption cases how much corruption is there in Israel and how do you fight it there in Israel and how do you fight it there in Israel and how do you fight it in your own party and in Israel in your own party and in Israel in your own party and in Israel well you should ask a different question well you should ask a different question well you should ask a different question what's happened to these cases these what's happened to these cases these what's happened to these cases these cases have uh basically are collapsing cases have uh basically are collapsing cases have uh basically are collapsing and before our eyes the uh the uh you and before our eyes the uh the uh you and before our eyes the uh the uh you know there were uh there was recently a know there were uh there was recently a know there were uh there was recently a an event in which the judges the three an event in which the judges the three an event in which the judges the three judges in in my case called in the judges in in my case called in the judges in in my case called in the prosecution and said you know your prosecution and said you know your prosecution and said you know your flagship flagship flagship the bribery charts so-called bribery the bribery charts so-called bribery the bribery charts so-called bribery charts you know it's gone doesn't exist charts you know it's gone doesn't exist charts you know it's gone doesn't exist before a single a single defense uh uh before a single a single defense uh uh before a single a single defense uh uh witness was called uh and um uh it sort witness was called uh and um uh it sort witness was called uh and um uh it sort of tells you that this thing is

of tells you that this thing is of tells you that this thing is evaporating it's quite evaporating it's quite evaporating it's quite astounded even that I have to say was astounded even that I have to say was astounded even that I have to say was covered even by the mainstream press in covered even by the mainstream press in covered even by the mainstream press in Israel because it's such an earthquake Israel because it's such an earthquake Israel because it's such an earthquake so you know a lot of these charges are so you know a lot of these charges are so you know a lot of these charges are not a lot these charges will prove to be not a lot these charges will prove to be not a lot these charges will prove to be nothing I always said listen I stand nothing I always said listen I stand nothing I always said listen I stand before the legal process I don't claim before the legal process I don't claim before the legal process I don't claim that um that um that um exempt from it in any way on the exempt from it in any way on the exempt from it in any way on the contrary I think the truth will come out contrary I think the truth will come out contrary I think the truth will come out and it's coming out and we see that not and it's coming out and we see that not and it's coming out and we see that not only that but with other things so I only that but with other things so I only that but with other things so I think it's kind of instructive that you think it's kind of instructive that you think it's kind of instructive that you know no no politician has been more know no no politician has been more know no no politician has been more vilified no none has been put to such a vilified no none has been put to such a vilified no none has been put to such a uh you know what is it about a quarter uh you know what is it about a quarter uh you know what is it about a quarter of a billion uh of a billion uh of a billion uh shekels were used to scrutinize me and shekels were used to scrutinize me and shekels were used to scrutinize me and scour my bank accounts sending people to scour my bank accounts sending people to scour my bank accounts sending people to the Philippines into Mexico into Europe the Philippines into Mexico into Europe the Philippines into Mexico into Europe into America and looking at everybody into America and looking at everybody into America and looking at everybody using spyware the most advanced spyware using spyware the most advanced spyware using spyware the most advanced spyware on the planet against my associates on the planet against my associates on the planet against my associates blackmailing Witnesses uh uh blackmailing Witnesses uh uh blackmailing Witnesses uh uh telling them new know think about your telling them new know think about your telling them new know think about your family think about your wife you know family think about your wife you know family think about your wife you know you better tell us what you want all you better tell us what you want all you better tell us what you want all that is coming out of the trial uh so I that is coming out of the trial uh so I that is coming out of the trial uh so I would say would say would say that most people now are not asking are that most people now are not asking are that most people now are not asking are no longer asking including my opponents no longer asking including my opponents no longer asking including my opponents it started trickling in as the as the it started trickling in as the as the it started trickling in as the as the stuff comes out people are not saying stuff comes out people are not saying stuff comes out people are not saying what did uh Netanyahu do because he what did uh Netanyahu do because he what did uh Netanyahu do because he apparently did nothing apparently did nothing apparently did nothing what was done to him is something the what was done to him is something the what was done to him is something the people ask what was done to him what was

people ask what was done to him what was people ask what was done to him what was done to our democracy what was done in done to our democracy what was done in done to our democracy what was done in the attempt to put down somebody who the attempt to put down somebody who the attempt to put down somebody who keeps winning elections despite the keeps winning elections despite the keeps winning elections despite the handicaps that I described maybe we can handicaps that I described maybe we can handicaps that I described maybe we can maybe we can nail him by Framing him and maybe we can nail him by Framing him and maybe we can nail him by Framing him and the one thing I can say about the the the one thing I can say about the the the one thing I can say about the the this court trial is that this court trial is that this court trial is that um things are coming out and that's um things are coming out and that's um things are coming out and that's that's very good just objective things that's very good just objective things that's very good just objective things are coming out changing the picture so I are coming out changing the picture so I are coming out changing the picture so I would say would say would say um the the attempt to Brand me uh as um the the attempt to Brand me uh as um the the attempt to Brand me uh as corrupt is falling on its face but the corrupt is falling on its face but the corrupt is falling on its face but the thing that isn't being uncovered in the thing that isn't being uncovered in the thing that isn't being uncovered in the trial trial trial such as the use the use of spyware such as the use the use of spyware such as the use the use of spyware on a politician on a politician on a politician a politician's surroundings to try to a politician's surroundings to try to a politician's surroundings to try to shake them down shake them down shake them down in investigations in investigations in investigations put them in flea written cells for 21 put them in flea written cells for 21 put them in flea written cells for 21 days and divide their 84 year old mother days and divide their 84 year old mother days and divide their 84 year old mother to investigations without cause bringing to investigations without cause bringing to investigations without cause bringing in their Mistresses in the corridor in their Mistresses in the corridor in their Mistresses in the corridor shaking them down shaking them down shaking them down that's what people are asking that that's what people are asking that that's what people are asking that corruption is what they want corrected what is the top obstacle to Peaceful what is the top obstacle to Peaceful coexistence of Israelis and Palestinians coexistence of Israelis and Palestinians coexistence of Israelis and Palestinians let's talk about the big question of let's talk about the big question of let's talk about the big question of Peace in this part of the world Peace in this part of the world Peace in this part of the world well I I think the reason you have well I I think the reason you have well I I think the reason you have uh the Persistence of the uh uh the Persistence of the uh uh the Persistence of the uh palestinian-israeli conflict which goes

palestinian-israeli conflict which goes palestinian-israeli conflict which goes back about a century is the persistent back about a century is the persistent back about a century is the persistent Palestinian refusal to recognize a Palestinian refusal to recognize a Palestinian refusal to recognize a Jewish State a nation-state for the Jewish State a nation-state for the Jewish State a nation-state for the Jewish people in any boundary and that's Jewish people in any boundary and that's Jewish people in any boundary and that's why they opposed the establishment of why they opposed the establishment of why they opposed the establishment of the state of Israel before we had a the state of Israel before we had a the state of Israel before we had a state now that's why they've opposed it state now that's why they've opposed it state now that's why they've opposed it after we had a state they opposed it after we had a state they opposed it after we had a state they opposed it when we were we didn't have Judea and when we were we didn't have Judea and when we were we didn't have Judea and Samaria the West Bank in our heads in Samaria the West Bank in our heads in Samaria the West Bank in our heads in Gaza and the oppose it after we have it Gaza and the oppose it after we have it Gaza and the oppose it after we have it doesn't make a difference it's basically doesn't make a difference it's basically doesn't make a difference it's basically the persistent refusal the persistent refusal the persistent refusal to recognize a Jewish state in any to recognize a Jewish state in any to recognize a Jewish state in any boundaries and I think their tragedy is boundaries and I think their tragedy is boundaries and I think their tragedy is that they've been commandeered for a that they've been commandeered for a that they've been commandeered for a century by leadership that refused to century by leadership that refused to century by leadership that refused to compromise with the idea of of Zionism compromise with the idea of of Zionism compromise with the idea of of Zionism namely that the Jews deserve a state in namely that the Jews deserve a state in namely that the Jews deserve a state in this part of the world the territorial this part of the world the territorial this part of the world the territorial dispute is something else you have a dispute is something else you have a dispute is something else you have a territorial dispute if you say okay territorial dispute if you say okay territorial dispute if you say okay you're living on this side we're living you're living on this side we're living you're living on this side we're living on that side let's decide where the on that side let's decide where the on that side let's decide where the border is and so on that's not what the border is and so on that's not what the border is and so on that's not what the argument is the Palestinian society argument is the Palestinian society argument is the Palestinian society which is itself which is itself which is itself fragmented but all the factions agree fragmented but all the factions agree fragmented but all the factions agree there shouldn't be a Jewish State anyway there shouldn't be a Jewish State anyway there shouldn't be a Jewish State anyway okay they just disagree between Hamas okay they just disagree between Hamas okay they just disagree between Hamas that says oh well you should have it you that says oh well you should have it you that says oh well you should have it you know we should get rid of it with Terror know we should get rid of it with Terror know we should get rid of it with Terror and the others who say we know we should and the others who say we know we should and the others who say we know we should also use political means to dissolve it also use political means to dissolve it also use political means to dissolve it so that is that is the problem so even so that is that is the problem so even so that is that is the problem so even as part of a two-state solution they're as part of a two-state solution they're as part of a two-state solution they're still against the idea well they don't still against the idea well they don't still against the idea well they don't want a state next to Israel they want to

want a state next to Israel they want to want a state next to Israel they want to State instead of Israel and they say if State instead of Israel and they say if State instead of Israel and they say if we get a state we'll use it as a we get a state we'll use it as a we get a state we'll use it as a springboard to destroy the the smaller springboard to destroy the the smaller springboard to destroy the the smaller Israeli state which is what happened Israeli state which is what happened Israeli state which is what happened when Israel unilaterally walked out of when Israel unilaterally walked out of when Israel unilaterally walked out of Gaza and effectively established a Hamas Gaza and effectively established a Hamas Gaza and effectively established a Hamas State there they didn't say all good now State there they didn't say all good now State there they didn't say all good now we have you know our own territory our we have you know our own territory our we have you know our own territory our own State Israel is no longer there own State Israel is no longer there own State Israel is no longer there let's build peace let's build uh uh you let's build peace let's build uh uh you let's build peace let's build uh uh you know uh economic projects let's uh know uh economic projects let's uh know uh economic projects let's uh enfranchise our people no they turned it enfranchise our people no they turned it enfranchise our people no they turned it into a basically into a terror Bastion into a basically into a terror Bastion into a basically into a terror Bastion from which they find uh 10 000 Rockets from which they find uh 10 000 Rockets from which they find uh 10 000 Rockets into Israel when Israel left uh Lebanon into Israel when Israel left uh Lebanon into Israel when Israel left uh Lebanon uh you know and because we had terrorist uh you know and because we had terrorist uh you know and because we had terrorist attacks from there then we had Lebanon attacks from there then we had Lebanon attacks from there then we had Lebanon uh taken over by Hezbollah terrorist uh taken over by Hezbollah terrorist uh taken over by Hezbollah terrorist organization that seeks to destroy organization that seeks to destroy organization that seeks to destroy Israel uh and and therefore every time Israel uh and and therefore every time Israel uh and and therefore every time we just walked out what we got was not we just walked out what we got was not we just walked out what we got was not peace we didn't give uh you know peace we didn't give uh you know peace we didn't give uh you know territory for peace we got territory for territory for peace we got territory for territory for peace we got territory for Terror that's what we had and that's Terror that's what we had and that's Terror that's what we had and that's what would happen as long as the the what would happen as long as the the what would happen as long as the the reigning ideology says we don't want reigning ideology says we don't want reigning ideology says we don't want Israel in any border so the the idea of Israel in any border so the the idea of Israel in any border so the the idea of uh two states assumes that you'd have on uh two states assumes that you'd have on uh two states assumes that you'd have on the other side a state that wants to the other side a state that wants to the other side a state that wants to live in peace and not one that will be live in peace and not one that will be live in peace and not one that will be overtaken by Iran and its proxies in two overtaken by Iran and its proxies in two overtaken by Iran and its proxies in two seconds and become a base to destroy seconds and become a base to destroy seconds and become a base to destroy Israel and therefore I think that most Israel and therefore I think that most Israel and therefore I think that most Israelis today if you ask them uh Israelis today if you ask them uh Israelis today if you ask them uh they're yeah they'd say it's not going they're yeah they'd say it's not going they're yeah they'd say it's not going to work in that concept so what do you to work in that concept so what do you to work in that concept so what do you do what do you do with the Palestinians do what do you do with the Palestinians do what do you do with the Palestinians okay they're still there and I don't

okay they're still there and I don't okay they're still there and I don't unlike them I don't want to throw them unlike them I don't want to throw them unlike them I don't want to throw them out uh they're going to be living here out uh they're going to be living here out uh they're going to be living here and we're going to be living here in an and we're going to be living here in an and we're going to be living here in an area which is by the way just to area which is by the way just to area which is by the way just to understand understand understand uh the area the entire area of uh uh the area the entire area of uh uh the area the entire area of uh so-called West Bank and in Israel is the so-called West Bank and in Israel is the so-called West Bank and in Israel is the width of the Washington Beltway more or width of the Washington Beltway more or width of the Washington Beltway more or less just a little more not much more less just a little more not much more less just a little more not much more you can't really divide it up you can't you can't really divide it up you can't you can't really divide it up you can't say well you're going to fly in who say well you're going to fly in who say well you're going to fly in who controls the airspace well it takes you controls the airspace well it takes you controls the airspace well it takes you about two and a half minutes to cross it about two and a half minutes to cross it about two and a half minutes to cross it with a with a regular uh you know seven with a with a regular uh you know seven with a with a regular uh you know seven to four seven okay with the fighter to four seven okay with the fighter to four seven okay with the fighter plane it takes you a minute and a half plane it takes you a minute and a half plane it takes you a minute and a half okay so you're not how are you going to okay so you're not how are you going to okay so you're not how are you going to divide the airspace well you're not divide the airspace well you're not divide the airspace well you're not going to divide it this wheel is going going to divide it this wheel is going going to divide it this wheel is going to control that airspace and the to control that airspace and the to control that airspace and the electromagnetic space uh and uh and so electromagnetic space uh and uh and so electromagnetic space uh and uh and so on so security has to be uh in the hands on so security has to be uh in the hands on so security has to be uh in the hands of Israel my view of how you solve this of Israel my view of how you solve this of Israel my view of how you solve this problem is that is a simple principle problem is that is a simple principle problem is that is a simple principle the Palestinians should have all the the Palestinians should have all the the Palestinians should have all the powers to govern themselves and none of powers to govern themselves and none of powers to govern themselves and none of the powers to threaten Israel which the powers to threaten Israel which the powers to threaten Israel which basically means that the responsibility basically means that the responsibility basically means that the responsibility for overall security remains with Israel for overall security remains with Israel for overall security remains with Israel and from a practice point of view we've and from a practice point of view we've and from a practice point of view we've seen that every time that Israel leaves seen that every time that Israel leaves seen that every time that Israel leaves a territory and and takes its uh a territory and and takes its uh a territory and and takes its uh Security Forces out of an area it Security Forces out of an area it Security Forces out of an area it immediately is overtaken by hamaso immediately is overtaken by hamaso immediately is overtaken by hamaso Hezbollah or Judas who basically are Hezbollah or Judas who basically are Hezbollah or Judas who basically are committed to the destruction of Israel committed to the destruction of Israel committed to the destruction of Israel and also bring misery to the the

and also bring misery to the the and also bring misery to the the Palestinians or Arab subjects so I think Palestinians or Arab subjects so I think Palestinians or Arab subjects so I think that that principle is less than perfect that that principle is less than perfect that that principle is less than perfect sovereignty sovereignty sovereignty because you're taking a certain amount because you're taking a certain amount because you're taking a certain amount of uh Power sovereign powers especially of uh Power sovereign powers especially of uh Power sovereign powers especially security away but I think it's the only security away but I think it's the only security away but I think it's the only practical solution so people say ah but practical solution so people say ah but practical solution so people say ah but it's not a perfect State I said okay it's not a perfect State I said okay it's not a perfect State I said okay call it what you will call it you know call it what you will call it you know call it what you will call it you know uh I don't know uh limited sovereignty uh I don't know uh limited sovereignty uh I don't know uh limited sovereignty call it the autonomy plus call it call it the autonomy plus call it call it the autonomy plus call it whatever you want to call it but that's whatever you want to call it but that's whatever you want to call it but that's the reality and right now if you ask the reality and right now if you ask the reality and right now if you ask Israelis across the political Spectrum Israelis across the political Spectrum Israelis across the political Spectrum except the very hard left most Israelis except the very hard left most Israelis except the very hard left most Israelis agree with that they don't really debate agree with that they don't really debate agree with that they don't really debate it so two-state solution where Israel it so two-state solution where Israel it so two-state solution where Israel controls the security of the entire controls the security of the entire controls the security of the entire region we don't call it quite that I region we don't call it quite that I region we don't call it quite that I mean there are different names but the mean there are different names but the mean there are different names but the idea is yes Israel controls Security in idea is yes Israel controls Security in idea is yes Israel controls Security in the is the entire area it's this tiny the is the entire area it's this tiny the is the entire area it's this tiny area between the Jordan River and the area between the Jordan River and the area between the Jordan River and the sea I mean it's it's like uh you know sea I mean it's it's like uh you know sea I mean it's it's like uh you know you can walk it in not one afternoon if you can walk it in not one afternoon if you can walk it in not one afternoon if you really fit you can do it in a in a you really fit you can do it in a in a you really fit you can do it in a in a day less less than a day I did so the uh day less less than a day I did so the uh day less less than a day I did so the uh expansion of settlements in the West expansion of settlements in the West expansion of settlements in the West Bank has been a top priority for this Bank has been a top priority for this Bank has been a top priority for this new government uh people many harshly new government uh people many harshly new government uh people many harshly criticize this as contributing to criticize this as contributing to criticize this as contributing to escalating escalating escalating the Israel Palestine the Israel Palestine the Israel Palestine can you understand that perspective that can you understand that perspective that can you understand that perspective that this expansion of settlements is not this expansion of settlements is not this expansion of settlements is not good for this two-state solution yeah I good for this two-state solution yeah I good for this two-state solution yeah I can understand I can understand what can understand I can understand what can understand I can understand what they're saying and they don't understand they're saying and they don't understand they're saying and they don't understand why they're wrong first the most most why they're wrong first the most most why they're wrong first the most most Israelis who live in Judea Samara live

Israelis who live in Judea Samara live Israelis who live in Judea Samara live in uh in the urban blocks and that in uh in the urban blocks and that in uh in the urban blocks and that accounts for about 90 percent of the of accounts for about 90 percent of the of accounts for about 90 percent of the of the population okay and everybody the population okay and everybody the population okay and everybody recognizes that those Urban blocs are recognizes that those Urban blocs are recognizes that those Urban blocs are going to be part of Israel in any future going to be part of Israel in any future going to be part of Israel in any future arrangement so they're really arguing arrangement so they're really arguing arrangement so they're really arguing about something that has already been about something that has already been about something that has already been decided and agreed upon really by by decided and agreed upon really by by decided and agreed upon really by by Americans by even by Arabs many Arabs Americans by even by Arabs many Arabs Americans by even by Arabs many Arabs they don't think that Israel is going to they don't think that Israel is going to they don't think that Israel is going to dismantle these these blocks you know dismantle these these blocks you know dismantle these these blocks you know you look outside the window here and you look outside the window here and you look outside the window here and within about a kilometer a mile from within about a kilometer a mile from within about a kilometer a mile from here is you have Jerusalem half of here is you have Jerusalem half of here is you have Jerusalem half of Jerusalem grew naturally beyond the old Jerusalem grew naturally beyond the old Jerusalem grew naturally beyond the old 1967 border uh so you're not going to 1967 border uh so you're not going to 1967 border uh so you're not going to dismantle half of Jerusalem that's not dismantle half of Jerusalem that's not dismantle half of Jerusalem that's not going to happen uh and uh and most going to happen uh and uh and most going to happen uh and uh and most people don't expect that then you have people don't expect that then you have people don't expect that then you have the other uh 10 scattered in tiny uh you the other uh 10 scattered in tiny uh you the other uh 10 scattered in tiny uh you know small communities and people say know small communities and people say know small communities and people say well you gotta have to take them out why well you gotta have to take them out why well you gotta have to take them out why why remember that in Pre uh 1967 Israel why remember that in Pre uh 1967 Israel why remember that in Pre uh 1967 Israel we have a over a million and a half we have a over a million and a half we have a over a million and a half Arabs here we don't say oh Israel has to Arabs here we don't say oh Israel has to Arabs here we don't say oh Israel has to be uh ethnically cleansed from Arabs in be uh ethnically cleansed from Arabs in be uh ethnically cleansed from Arabs in order to have from its Arab citizens in order to have from its Arab citizens in order to have from its Arab citizens in order to have peace of course not Jews order to have peace of course not Jews order to have peace of course not Jews can live among Arabs and Arabs can live can live among Arabs and Arabs can live can live among Arabs and Arabs can live among Jews and what is what is being among Jews and what is what is being among Jews and what is what is being Advanced by those people who say that we Advanced by those people who say that we Advanced by those people who say that we can't live in our ancestral Homeland in can't live in our ancestral Homeland in can't live in our ancestral Homeland in these disputed areas nobody says that these disputed areas nobody says that these disputed areas nobody says that this is Palestinian areas and nobody this is Palestinian areas and nobody this is Palestinian areas and nobody says that these are israeliers we claim says that these are israeliers we claim says that these are israeliers we claim them they claim them we've only been them they claim them we've only been them they claim them we've only been attached to this land for oh 3 500 years

attached to this land for oh 3 500 years attached to this land for oh 3 500 years but you know but it's a dispute I agree but you know but it's a dispute I agree but you know but it's a dispute I agree but I don't agree that we should throw but I don't agree that we should throw but I don't agree that we should throw out the Arabs and I don't think that out the Arabs and I don't think that out the Arabs and I don't think that they should throw out the Jews and if they should throw out the Jews and if they should throw out the Jews and if somebody said to you the only way we're somebody said to you the only way we're somebody said to you the only way we're going to have peace with Israel is to going to have peace with Israel is to going to have peace with Israel is to have an ethnically cleansed Palestinian have an ethnically cleansed Palestinian have an ethnically cleansed Palestinian entity you know that that's outrageous entity you know that that's outrageous entity you know that that's outrageous if you said the only way you know you if you said the only way you know you if you said the only way you know you shouldn't have Jews living in I don't shouldn't have Jews living in I don't shouldn't have Jews living in I don't know in suburbs of London or New York know in suburbs of London or New York know in suburbs of London or New York and so on I don't think that will play and so on I don't think that will play and so on I don't think that will play too well the world is actually advancing too well the world is actually advancing too well the world is actually advancing a solution that says that uh that Jews a solution that says that uh that Jews a solution that says that uh that Jews cannot live among Arabs and Arabs cannot cannot live among Arabs and Arabs cannot cannot live among Arabs and Arabs cannot live among Jews I I don't think that's live among Jews I I don't think that's live among Jews I I don't think that's the right way to do it uh and I I think the right way to do it uh and I I think the right way to do it uh and I I think there's a solution out there but I don't there's a solution out there but I don't there's a solution out there but I don't think we're going to get to it which is think we're going to get to it which is think we're going to get to it which is less than perfect sovereignty which less than perfect sovereignty which less than perfect sovereignty which involves Israeli security uh maintained involves Israeli security uh maintained involves Israeli security uh maintained for the entire territory by Israel which for the entire territory by Israel which for the entire territory by Israel which involves not rooting out anybody not involves not rooting out anybody not involves not rooting out anybody not kicking out uprooting Arabs or kicking out uprooting Arabs or kicking out uprooting Arabs or Palestinians they're going to live in Palestinians they're going to live in Palestinians they're going to live in enclaves in Sovereign Israel and we're enclaves in Sovereign Israel and we're enclaves in Sovereign Israel and we're going to live in probably an enclaves going to live in probably an enclaves going to live in probably an enclaves there there there probably through transportational probably through transportational probably through transportational continuity as opposed to territorial continuity as opposed to territorial continuity as opposed to territorial continuity that is uh you know for continuity that is uh you know for continuity that is uh you know for example you can have tunnels and example you can have tunnels and example you can have tunnels and overpasses and so on that connect the overpasses and so on that connect the overpasses and so on that connect the various communities we're doing that various communities we're doing that various communities we're doing that right now right now right now we're doing that right now and it it we're doing that right now and it it we're doing that right now and it it actually works I think there is a actually works I think there is a actually works I think there is a solution to this uh it's not the perfect solution to this uh it's not the perfect solution to this uh it's not the perfect world that people think of because that world that people think of because that world that people think of because that model I think doesn't apply here uh if

model I think doesn't apply here uh if model I think doesn't apply here uh if it applies elsewhere it's a question uh it applies elsewhere it's a question uh it applies elsewhere it's a question uh I don't think so but I think there's one I don't think so but I think there's one I don't think so but I think there's one other thing other thing other thing and that's the main thing that I've been and that's the main thing that I've been and that's the main thing that I've been involved in involved in involved in you know people said if you don't solve you know people said if you don't solve you know people said if you don't solve the Palestinian problem the Palestinian problem the Palestinian problem you're not going to get to the Arab you're not going to get to the Arab you're not going to get to the Arab world you're not going to have peace world you're not going to have peace world you're not going to have peace with the Arab world remember the with the Arab world remember the with the Arab world remember the Palestinians are about two percent of Palestinians are about two percent of Palestinians are about two percent of the Arab world the Arab world the Arab world and the other you know the other 98 and the other you know the other 98 and the other you know the other 98 you're not going to make peace with them you're not going to make peace with them you're not going to make peace with them and that's our goal and that's our goal and that's our goal and for a long time people accepted that and for a long time people accepted that and for a long time people accepted that after the initial peace treaties with after the initial peace treaties with after the initial peace treaties with Egypt with the Prime Minister begin of Egypt with the Prime Minister begin of Egypt with the Prime Minister begin of the likud and and president said out of the likud and and president said out of the likud and and president said out of Egypt and then uh with Jordan between Egypt and then uh with Jordan between Egypt and then uh with Jordan between prime minister Rabin and uh and kink prime minister Rabin and uh and kink prime minister Rabin and uh and kink Hussein for quarter of a century we Hussein for quarter of a century we Hussein for quarter of a century we didn't have any more peace treaties didn't have any more peace treaties didn't have any more peace treaties because people said you got to go because people said you got to go because people said you got to go through the Palestinians and the through the Palestinians and the through the Palestinians and the Palestinians they don't want a solution Palestinians they don't want a solution Palestinians they don't want a solution of the kind that I described or any kind of the kind that I described or any kind of the kind that I described or any kind except the one that involved the except the one that involved the except the one that involved the dissolution of the state of Israel so we dissolution of the state of Israel so we dissolution of the state of Israel so we could wait another half century and I could wait another half century and I could wait another half century and I said no I mean I don't think that we said no I mean I don't think that we said no I mean I don't think that we should accept the premise that we have should accept the premise that we have should accept the premise that we have to wait for the Palestinians because to wait for the Palestinians because to wait for the Palestinians because we'll have to wait forever we'll have to wait forever we'll have to wait forever so I decided to do it differently I so I decided to do it differently I so I decided to do it differently I decided to go directly to the Arab decided to go directly to the Arab decided to go directly to the Arab capitals uh and to make the historic capitals uh and to make the historic capitals uh and to make the historic Abraham Accords uh and essentially uh Abraham Accords uh and essentially uh Abraham Accords uh and essentially uh reversing the equation not a peace reversing the equation not a peace reversing the equation not a peace process that goes inside out process that goes inside out process that goes inside out but outside in and we went directly to but outside in and we went directly to but outside in and we went directly to the these countries and forged these uh

the these countries and forged these uh the these countries and forged these uh these breakthrough Peace Accords with these breakthrough Peace Accords with these breakthrough Peace Accords with the United Arab Emirates with Bahrain the United Arab Emirates with Bahrain the United Arab Emirates with Bahrain with Morocco and with Sudan and we're with Morocco and with Sudan and we're with Morocco and with Sudan and we're now trying to expand that in a Quantum now trying to expand that in a Quantum now trying to expand that in a Quantum Leap Leap Leap with Saudi Arabia what does it take to with Saudi Arabia what does it take to with Saudi Arabia what does it take to do that with Saudi Arabia with the Saudi do that with Saudi Arabia with the Saudi do that with Saudi Arabia with the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed by Salman you know Crown Prince Mohammed by Salman you know Crown Prince Mohammed by Salman you know I'm a student of history and I I'm a student of history and I I'm a student of history and I read a lot of history and I read that uh read a lot of history and I read that uh read a lot of history and I read that uh you know in the Versailles discussions you know in the Versailles discussions you know in the Versailles discussions after World War one uh President Woodrow after World War one uh President Woodrow after World War one uh President Woodrow Wilson said I believe in open covenants Wilson said I believe in open covenants Wilson said I believe in open covenants openly arrived at I have my correction I openly arrived at I have my correction I openly arrived at I have my correction I believed in open Covenant secretly believed in open Covenant secretly believed in open Covenant secretly arrived at so there's we're not going to arrived at so there's we're not going to arrived at so there's we're not going to advance a saudi-israeli Peace by having advance a saudi-israeli Peace by having advance a saudi-israeli Peace by having it publicly discussed and in any case it publicly discussed and in any case it publicly discussed and in any case it's a decision of the uh of the Saudis it's a decision of the uh of the Saudis it's a decision of the uh of the Saudis if they want to do it but there's if they want to do it but there's if they want to do it but there's obviously a mutual interest so here's my obviously a mutual interest so here's my obviously a mutual interest so here's my view view view if we try to wait for the two percent in if we try to wait for the two percent in if we try to wait for the two percent in order to get to the 98 we're going to order to get to the 98 we're going to order to get to the 98 we're going to fail and we have failed if we go to the fail and we have failed if we go to the fail and we have failed if we go to the 98 we have a much greater chance of 98 we have a much greater chance of 98 we have a much greater chance of persuading the two percent you know why persuading the two percent you know why persuading the two percent you know why because the two percent the Palestinian because the two percent the Palestinian because the two percent the Palestinian uh hope to Vanquish the state of Israel uh hope to Vanquish the state of Israel uh hope to Vanquish the state of Israel and not make peace with it is based and not make peace with it is based and not make peace with it is based among other things on the pro on the among other things on the pro on the among other things on the pro on the assumption that eventually the 98 the assumption that eventually the 98 the assumption that eventually the 98 the rest of the Arab world will kick in and rest of the Arab world will kick in and rest of the Arab world will kick in and destroy the Jewish State help them destroy the Jewish State help them destroy the Jewish State help them dissolve or destroy the Jewish State dissolve or destroy the Jewish State dissolve or destroy the Jewish State when that hope is when that hope is when that hope is um uh taken away then you begin to have

um uh taken away then you begin to have um uh taken away then you begin to have a turn to the realistic Solutions of a turn to the realistic Solutions of a turn to the realistic Solutions of coexistence by the way they'll require coexistence by the way they'll require coexistence by the way they'll require compromise on the Israeli side too and compromise on the Israeli side too and compromise on the Israeli side too and then you know I'm perfectly cognizant of then you know I'm perfectly cognizant of then you know I'm perfectly cognizant of that and willing to do that but I think that and willing to do that but I think that and willing to do that but I think a realistic compromise will be struck a realistic compromise will be struck a realistic compromise will be struck much more readily when the much more readily when the much more readily when the conflict between Israel and the Arab conflict between Israel and the Arab conflict between Israel and the Arab states the Arab world is effectively states the Arab world is effectively states the Arab world is effectively solved and I think we're on that path it solved and I think we're on that path it solved and I think we're on that path it was a conceptual change just like you was a conceptual change just like you was a conceptual change just like you know I've been involved in a few I told know I've been involved in a few I told know I've been involved in a few I told you the conceptual battle is always the you the conceptual battle is always the you the conceptual battle is always the most difficult one and you know I had to most difficult one and you know I had to most difficult one and you know I had to fight this battle fight this battle fight this battle to convert a semi-social estate into a to convert a semi-social estate into a to convert a semi-social estate into a free market Capital estate and I have to free market Capital estate and I have to free market Capital estate and I have to say that most people today recognize the say that most people today recognize the say that most people today recognize the power of competition and the benefits of power of competition and the benefits of power of competition and the benefits of free markets so we also had to fight free markets so we also had to fight free markets so we also had to fight this battle that said you have to go this battle that said you have to go this battle that said you have to go through the you know the the the the through the you know the the the the through the you know the the the the Palestinian uh uh straight Palestinian uh uh straight Palestinian uh uh straight s-t-r-a-i-t to get to the other places s-t-r-a-i-t to get to the other places s-t-r-a-i-t to get to the other places there's no way to avoid this you know there's no way to avoid this you know there's no way to avoid this you know you have to go through this this uh you have to go through this this uh you have to go through this this uh impassable pass and I think that now impassable pass and I think that now impassable pass and I think that now people are recognizing that will go people are recognizing that will go people are recognizing that will go around it and probably Circle back and around it and probably Circle back and around it and probably Circle back and that I think actually gives hope not that I think actually gives hope not that I think actually gives hope not only to have an Arab Israeli piece but only to have an Arab Israeli piece but only to have an Arab Israeli piece but circling back in israeli-palestinian circling back in israeli-palestinian circling back in israeli-palestinian piece and obviously this is not piece and obviously this is not piece and obviously this is not something that you find in the you know something that you find in the you know something that you find in the you know in the sound bites and so on uh but but in the sound bites and so on uh but but in the sound bites and so on uh but but in the in the popular discussion of the in the in the popular discussion of the in the in the popular discussion of the press but that idea is permeating and I

press but that idea is permeating and I press but that idea is permeating and I think it's the right idea because I think it's the right idea because I think it's the right idea because I think it's the only one that will work think it's the only one that will work think it's the only one that will work so expanding the circle piece just to so expanding the circle piece just to so expanding the circle piece just to linger on that requires what secretly linger on that requires what secretly linger on that requires what secretly talking talking talking man to man human to Human man to man human to Human man to man human to Human uh to leaders of other nations uh to leaders of other nations uh to leaders of other nations and theoretically you're right and theoretically you're right and theoretically you're right theoretically okay theoretically okay theoretically okay well let me ask you another theoretical well let me ask you another theoretical well let me ask you another theoretical question question question um on the circle of peace um on the circle of peace um on the circle of peace as a student of History as a student of History as a student of History looking at the ideas of War and Peace looking at the ideas of War and Peace looking at the ideas of War and Peace what do you think can achieve peace in what do you think can achieve peace in what do you think can achieve peace in the war in Ukraine blinking on another the war in Ukraine blinking on another the war in Ukraine blinking on another part of the world if you part of the world if you part of the world if you if you consider the fight for peace in if you consider the fight for peace in if you consider the fight for peace in this part of the world this part of the world this part of the world how can you apply that to that other how can you apply that to that other how can you apply that to that other part of the world between Russia and part of the world between Russia and part of the world between Russia and Ukraine now Ukraine now Ukraine now I think it's one of the I think it's one of the I think it's one of the The Savage horrors of history and one of The Savage horrors of history and one of The Savage horrors of history and one of the great tragedies that is occurring the great tragedies that is occurring the great tragedies that is occurring um and let me say in advance that uh that and let me say in advance that uh that if I have any opportunity to if I have any opportunity to if I have any opportunity to use my uh contacts to help bring about use my uh contacts to help bring about use my uh contacts to help bring about it into this tragedy I'll do so uh I've it into this tragedy I'll do so uh I've it into this tragedy I'll do so uh I've had I know both leaders had I know both leaders had I know both leaders but I don't just jump in and and assume but I don't just jump in and and assume but I don't just jump in and and assume you know if there's be a desire at a you know if there's be a desire at a you know if there's be a desire at a certain point certain point certain point because the conditions have because the conditions have because the conditions have created the possibility of

created the possibility of created the possibility of helping stop this this Carnage then I'll helping stop this this Carnage then I'll helping stop this this Carnage then I'll do it and that's why I choose my words do it and that's why I choose my words do it and that's why I choose my words carefully because I think that may be carefully because I think that may be carefully because I think that may be the best uh uh the best thing that I the best uh uh the best thing that I the best uh uh the best thing that I could do could do could do look I I think what you see look I I think what you see look I I think what you see in Ukraine is what happens if you have in Ukraine is what happens if you have in Ukraine is what happens if you have territorial designs on a territory by a territorial designs on a territory by a territorial designs on a territory by a country that has nuclear weapons country that has nuclear weapons country that has nuclear weapons and that to me you see the change in the and that to me you see the change in the and that to me you see the change in the equation now equation now equation now I think that people are loath to use I think that people are loath to use I think that people are loath to use nuclear weapons and I'm not sure that I nuclear weapons and I'm not sure that I nuclear weapons and I'm not sure that I would uh think that the the Russian side would uh think that the the Russian side would uh think that the the Russian side would use them would use them would use them with happy abandon I don't think that's with happy abandon I don't think that's with happy abandon I don't think that's the cushion but you see how the whole the cushion but you see how the whole the cushion but you see how the whole configuration changes uh when that configuration changes uh when that configuration changes uh when that happens so you have to be very careful happens so you have to be very careful happens so you have to be very careful and how you resolve this conflict so it and how you resolve this conflict so it and how you resolve this conflict so it doesn't doesn't doesn't uh well it does go off the rails so to uh well it does go off the rails so to uh well it does go off the rails so to speak that's by the way the the speak that's by the way the the speak that's by the way the the corollary is here we don't want Iran corollary is here we don't want Iran corollary is here we don't want Iran which is an aggressive force with an which is an aggressive force with an which is an aggressive force with an unlim just aggressive ideology of unlim just aggressive ideology of unlim just aggressive ideology of dominating dominating dominating first the Muslim world and then first the Muslim world and then first the Muslim world and then eliminating Israel and then becoming a eliminating Israel and then becoming a eliminating Israel and then becoming a you know Global force uh having nuclear you know Global force uh having nuclear you know Global force uh having nuclear weapons it's totally different when they weapons it's totally different when they weapons it's totally different when they don't have it than when they do have it don't have it than when they do have it don't have it than when they do have it and that's why one of my main goals has and that's why one of my main goals has and that's why one of my main goals has been to prevent Iran from having the been to prevent Iran from having the been to prevent Iran from having the means to uh the means of mass means to uh the means of mass means to uh the means of mass destruction which will be used atomic destruction which will be used atomic destruction which will be used atomic bombs which they openly say will be used

bombs which they openly say will be used bombs which they openly say will be used against us and you can understand that against us and you can understand that against us and you can understand that how to bring about an end to Ukraine how to bring about an end to Ukraine how to bring about an end to Ukraine I have my ideas I don't think I don't I have my ideas I don't think I don't I have my ideas I don't think I don't think it's worthwhile uh think it's worthwhile uh think it's worthwhile uh discussing them now because they might discussing them now because they might discussing them now because they might they might be required later on do you they might be required later on do you they might be required later on do you believe in the power of conversation believe in the power of conversation believe in the power of conversation since you have contacts with the since you have contacts with the since you have contacts with the Vladimir zielinski and Vladimir Putin Vladimir zielinski and Vladimir Putin Vladimir zielinski and Vladimir Putin just leaders sitting in a room just leaders sitting in a room just leaders sitting in a room And discussing how the end of War can be And discussing how the end of War can be And discussing how the end of War can be brought about brought about brought about I think it's a combination of that but I I think it's a combination of that but I I think it's a combination of that but I think it's the question of interest and think it's the question of interest and think it's the question of interest and uh and whether you have to get both uh and whether you have to get both uh and whether you have to get both sides sides sides to to a point where they to to a point where they to to a point where they think that that conversation would lead think that that conversation would lead think that that conversation would lead to something useful that I don't think to something useful that I don't think to something useful that I don't think they're there right now what part of of they're there right now what part of of they're there right now what part of of this is just basic human ego this is just basic human ego this is just basic human ego stubbornness all of this between leaders stubbornness all of this between leaders stubbornness all of this between leaders which is why I bring up the power of which is why I bring up the power of which is why I bring up the power of conversation of sitting in a room conversation of sitting in a room conversation of sitting in a room realizing we're human beings and then realizing we're human beings and then realizing we're human beings and then there's a history that connects Ukraine there's a history that connects Ukraine there's a history that connects Ukraine and Russia yeah I don't think they're in and Russia yeah I don't think they're in and Russia yeah I don't think they're in a position to enter a room right now a position to enter a room right now a position to enter a room right now realistically I mean you can posit that realistically I mean you can posit that realistically I mean you can posit that it would be good if that could happen it would be good if that could happen it would be good if that could happen but entering the room is sometimes more but entering the room is sometimes more but entering the room is sometimes more complicated than what happens when complicated than what happens when complicated than what happens when there's a lot of you know there's a lot of you know there's a lot of you know pre-negotiation on the negotiation then pre-negotiation on the negotiation then pre-negotiation on the negotiation then you negotiate endlessly on the you negotiate endlessly on the you negotiate endlessly on the negotiation they're not even there it negotiation they're not even there it negotiation they're not even there it took a lot of work for you to get a took a lot of work for you to get a took a lot of work for you to get a handshake handshake handshake in the past in the past in the past it's an interesting question how did the it's an interesting question how did the it's an interesting question how did the Peace the Abraham Accords how did that Peace the Abraham Accords how did that Peace the Abraham Accords how did that begin

begin begin you know I mean we had you know we had you know I mean we had you know we had you know I mean we had you know we had decades but 70 years where they or 65 decades but 70 years where they or 65 decades but 70 years where they or 65 years where these people you know would years where these people you know would years where these people you know would not uh not uh not uh meet openly or even secretly with an meet openly or even secretly with an meet openly or even secretly with an Israeli leader yeah we had the the Israeli leader yeah we had the the Israeli leader yeah we had the the Mossad making contacts with them all the Mossad making contacts with them all the Mossad making contacts with them all the time and so on but how do we break the time and so on but how do we break the time and so on but how do we break the ice to the top level of leadership well ice to the top level of leadership well ice to the top level of leadership well we broke the ice because I took a very we broke the ice because I took a very we broke the ice because I took a very strong stance against Iran strong stance against Iran strong stance against Iran and the Gulf States understood that Iran and the Gulf States understood that Iran and the Gulf States understood that Iran is a formidable danger to them so we had is a formidable danger to them so we had is a formidable danger to them so we had a common interest and the second thing a common interest and the second thing a common interest and the second thing is that because of the economic reforms is that because of the economic reforms is that because of the economic reforms that we had produced in Israel Israel that we had produced in Israel Israel that we had produced in Israel Israel became a technological Powerhouse and became a technological Powerhouse and became a technological Powerhouse and that could help their Nations not only that could help their Nations not only that could help their Nations not only in terms of anything just bettering the in terms of anything just bettering the in terms of anything just bettering the life of their peoples life of their peoples life of their peoples and the combination of the uh and the combination of the uh and the combination of the uh of the desire to have of the desire to have of the desire to have some kind of uh protection against Iran some kind of uh protection against Iran some kind of uh protection against Iran or some kind of cooperation against Iran or some kind of cooperation against Iran or some kind of cooperation against Iran and civilian economic cooperation uh and civilian economic cooperation uh and civilian economic cooperation uh came to a head when I gave a speech in came to a head when I gave a speech in came to a head when I gave a speech in the American Congress the American Congress the American Congress uh which I didn't do lightheartedly I uh which I didn't do lightheartedly I uh which I didn't do lightheartedly I had to decide to challenge a sitting had to decide to challenge a sitting had to decide to challenge a sitting American president and uh on the the American president and uh on the the American president and uh on the the so-called Iranian deal uh which I so-called Iranian deal uh which I so-called Iranian deal uh which I thought would pave Iran's path with gold thought would pave Iran's path with gold thought would pave Iran's path with gold to Be an Effective nuclear power that's to Be an Effective nuclear power that's to Be an Effective nuclear power that's what would happen what would happen what would happen uh uh uh so I went there

so I went there so I went there and in the course of giving that speech and in the course of giving that speech and in the course of giving that speech before the joint session of Congress before the joint session of Congress before the joint session of Congress our delegation received calls from Gulf our delegation received calls from Gulf our delegation received calls from Gulf States States States who said we can't believe what your who said we can't believe what your who said we can't believe what your prime minister is doing he's challenging prime minister is doing he's challenging prime minister is doing he's challenging you know the president of the United you know the president of the United you know the president of the United States well I had no choice I mean States well I had no choice I mean States well I had no choice I mean because I thought my country's own because I thought my country's own because I thought my country's own existence was imperiled and remember we existence was imperiled and remember we existence was imperiled and remember we always understand through changing always understand through changing always understand through changing administrations that America administrations that America administrations that America under no matter what leadership is under no matter what leadership is under no matter what leadership is always the Irreplaceable and always the Irreplaceable and always the Irreplaceable and indispensable Ally of Israel and who indispensable Ally of Israel and who indispensable Ally of Israel and who always remained that we can have always remained that we can have always remained that we can have arguments as we have but in the families arguments as we have but in the families arguments as we have but in the families we say you know it's the the family but we say you know it's the the family but we say you know it's the the family but nevertheless I was forced to take a nevertheless I was forced to take a nevertheless I was forced to take a stand that produced stand that produced stand that produced calls from Gulf States that ultimately calls from Gulf States that ultimately calls from Gulf States that ultimately led to clandestine meetings that led to clandestine meetings that led to clandestine meetings that ultimately flowered into the the Abraham ultimately flowered into the the Abraham ultimately flowered into the the Abraham Accords then and I think we're at a Accords then and I think we're at a Accords then and I think we're at a point where the idea of ending the point where the idea of ending the point where the idea of ending the arab-israeli conflict not the arab-israeli conflict not the arab-israeli conflict not the palestinian-israeli conflict the palestinian-israeli conflict the palestinian-israeli conflict the arab-israeli conflict can happen I'm not arab-israeli conflict can happen I'm not arab-israeli conflict can happen I'm not sure it will it depends on quite a few sure it will it depends on quite a few sure it will it depends on quite a few things but it could happen and if it things but it could happen and if it things but it could happen and if it happens it might open up the ending of happens it might open up the ending of happens it might open up the ending of the Israeli Islamic conflict remember the Israeli Islamic conflict remember the Israeli Islamic conflict remember the Arab world is a small part the Arab world is a small part the Arab world is a small part it's an important part but it's there it's an important part but it's there it's an important part but it's there are large Islamic populations and could

are large Islamic populations and could are large Islamic populations and could bring about uh and then to the historic bring about uh and then to the historic bring about uh and then to the historic enmity between Islam and Judaism it enmity between Islam and Judaism it enmity between Islam and Judaism it could be a great thing so I'm looking at could be a great thing so I'm looking at could be a great thing so I'm looking at this larger thing you know you can you this larger thing you know you can you this larger thing you know you can you can be hobbled by saying well well you can be hobbled by saying well well you can be hobbled by saying well well you know you've had this uh you know know you've had this uh you know know you've had this uh you know this hiccup in Gaza or you know this uh this hiccup in Gaza or you know this uh this hiccup in Gaza or you know this uh this or that thing happening in the in this or that thing happening in the in this or that thing happening in the in the Palestinians I don't it's important the Palestinians I don't it's important the Palestinians I don't it's important for us because we want security but I for us because we want security but I for us because we want security but I think the larger question is can we think the larger question is can we think the larger question is can we break out into a much wider piece and break out into a much wider piece and break out into a much wider piece and ultimately come back and make the uh the ultimately come back and make the uh the ultimately come back and make the uh the peace between Israel and the peace between Israel and the peace between Israel and the Palestinians rather than waiting to Palestinians rather than waiting to Palestinians rather than waiting to solve that uh and and never getting to solve that uh and and never getting to solve that uh and and never getting to the the uh to paint on the large of the the uh to paint on the large of the the uh to paint on the large of canvas I I want to paint on the larger canvas I I want to paint on the larger canvas I I want to paint on the larger canvas and come back to the canvas and come back to the canvas and come back to the palestinian-israeli conflict palestinian-israeli conflict palestinian-israeli conflict as you write about in your book what as you write about in your book what as you write about in your book what have you learned about life from your have you learned about life from your have you learned about life from your father father father my father was a great historian my father was a great historian my father was a great historian um um um and well he taught me um and well he taught me um and well he taught me um several things he said that the several things he said that the several things he said that the the first the first the first um conditioned for a living organism is um conditioned for a living organism is um conditioned for a living organism is to identify danger in time to identify danger in time to identify danger in time because if you don't you could be because if you don't you could be because if you don't you could be devoured you could be destroyed very devoured you could be destroyed very devoured you could be destroyed very quickly and that's the nature of human quickly and that's the nature of human quickly and that's the nature of human conflict in fact for the Jewish people conflict in fact for the Jewish people conflict in fact for the Jewish people we didn't we lost the capacity to we didn't we lost the capacity to we didn't we lost the capacity to identify danger in time and we were

identify danger in time and we were identify danger in time and we were almost devoured and destroyed by the almost devoured and destroyed by the almost devoured and destroyed by the Nazi thread so when I see somebody Nazi thread so when I see somebody Nazi thread so when I see somebody parroting the Nazi uh goal of destroying parroting the Nazi uh goal of destroying parroting the Nazi uh goal of destroying the Jewish State I tried to mobilize the Jewish State I tried to mobilize the Jewish State I tried to mobilize the country and the world in time the country and the world in time the country and the world in time because I think Iran is a global threat because I think Iran is a global threat because I think Iran is a global threat not only a threat to Israel that's the not only a threat to Israel that's the not only a threat to Israel that's the first thing the second thing is I once first thing the second thing is I once first thing the second thing is I once asked him before I got elected I said asked him before I got elected I said asked him before I got elected I said well what do you think is the most well what do you think is the most well what do you think is the most important important important quality for a prime minister of Israel quality for a prime minister of Israel quality for a prime minister of Israel and he came back with a question what do and he came back with a question what do and he came back with a question what do you think and I said well you have to you think and I said well you have to you think and I said well you have to vision vision vision and you have to have the you know the and you have to have the you know the and you have to have the you know the flexibility of navigating and working flexibility of navigating and working flexibility of navigating and working towards that Vision uh you know be towards that Vision uh you know be towards that Vision uh you know be flexible but understand where you're flexible but understand where you're flexible but understand where you're heading heading heading and he said well you need that for and he said well you need that for and he said well you need that for anything you need it for uh you know if anything you need it for uh you know if anything you need it for uh you know if you're a university president or if you're a university president or if you're a university president or if you're a leader of a corporation or you're a leader of a corporation or you're a leader of a corporation or anything anything anything anybody would have to have that I said anybody would have to have that I said anybody would have to have that I said it's all right so so what do you need it's all right so so what do you need it's all right so so what do you need for it to be the the uh the leader of for it to be the the uh the leader of for it to be the the uh the leader of Israel he said Israel he said Israel he said he came back to me with a word that he came back to me with a word that he came back to me with a word that stunned me stunned me stunned me he said he said he said education you need a broad and deep education you need a broad and deep education you need a broad and deep education or you'll be at the mercy of education or you'll be at the mercy of education or you'll be at the mercy of your clerks your clerks your clerks or the press or whatever and you have to or the press or whatever and you have to or the press or whatever and you have to you have to be able to you have to be able to you have to be able to to do that now you know as I spend time to do that now you know as I spend time to do that now you know as I spend time in government in government in government re being re-elected you know by uh

re being re-elected you know by uh re being re-elected you know by uh by the the people of Israel I I recognize more and more how how I I recognize more and more how how right he was you you need to right he was you you need to right he was you you need to constantly ask yourself constantly ask yourself constantly ask yourself where's the direction we want to take where's the direction we want to take where's the direction we want to take the country how do we achieve that goal the country how do we achieve that goal the country how do we achieve that goal but also understand that new disciplines but also understand that new disciplines but also understand that new disciplines are being added you have to learn all are being added you have to learn all are being added you have to learn all the time you have to learn all the time the time you have to learn all the time the time you have to learn all the time you have to add to your intellectual you have to add to your intellectual you have to add to your intellectual Capital all the time Kissinger said that Capital all the time Kissinger said that Capital all the time Kissinger said that he wrote that once you enter public life he wrote that once you enter public life he wrote that once you enter public life you begin to draw on your intellectual you begin to draw on your intellectual you begin to draw on your intellectual Capital uh and you know it'll be Capital uh and you know it'll be Capital uh and you know it'll be depleted very quickly if you stay a long depleted very quickly if you stay a long depleted very quickly if you stay a long time uh time uh time uh I disagree with that I think you have to I disagree with that I think you have to I disagree with that I think you have to constantly constantly increase your constantly constantly increase your constantly constantly increase your understanding of understanding of understanding of things as they change because because my things as they change because because my things as they change because because my father was right you need to broaden and father was right you need to broaden and father was right you need to broaden and deepen your education as you go along deepen your education as you go along deepen your education as you go along you can't just sit back and say well I you can't just sit back and say well I you can't just sit back and say well I studied some things in University or in studied some things in University or in studied some things in University or in college or in Boston or at MIT and college or in Boston or at MIT and college or in Boston or at MIT and that's enough you know I've done it now that's enough you know I've done it now that's enough you know I've done it now learn learn learn never stop and if I learn learn learn never stop and if I learn learn learn never stop and if I may suggest as part of the education I may suggest as part of the education I may suggest as part of the education I would add in a little literature maybe would add in a little literature maybe would add in a little literature maybe Dostoyevsky uh in the in in the Dostoyevsky uh in the in in the Dostoyevsky uh in the in in the plentiful of time you have as a prime plentiful of time you have as a prime plentiful of time you have as a prime minister to read well I read him but minister to read well I read him but minister to read well I read him but I'll tell you what I think is bigger I'll tell you what I think is bigger I'll tell you what I think is bigger than Dostoevsky oh no who's that not than Dostoevsky oh no who's that not than Dostoevsky oh no who's that not who's that but what's that I was Dan who's that but what's that I was Dan who's that but what's that I was Dan Rather came to see me with his grandson Rather came to see me with his grandson Rather came to see me with his grandson few years ago and he asked me uh

few years ago and he asked me uh few years ago and he asked me uh the grandson asked me it was a student the grandson asked me it was a student the grandson asked me it was a student in an Ivy League College and he said in an Ivy League College and he said in an Ivy League College and he said he's 18 years old and he wants to study he's 18 years old and he wants to study he's 18 years old and he wants to study to enter politics to enter politics to enter politics and he said what's what's the most and he said what's what's the most and he said what's what's the most important thing that I have to study to important thing that I have to study to important thing that I have to study to enter a political life enter a political life enter a political life and I said you have three things you and I said you have three things you and I said you have three things you have to study have to study have to study okay okay okay history history history and history and history and history that's that's the fundamental discipline that's that's the fundamental discipline that's that's the fundamental discipline for political life but then you have to for political life but then you have to for political life but then you have to study other things study economics study study other things study economics study study other things study economics study politics and and so on and study study politics and and so on and study study politics and and so on and study study the military the military the military if you have if you had an advantage if you have if you had an advantage if you have if you had an advantage because I spent some years there so I because I spent some years there so I because I spent some years there so I learned a lot of that but I had to learned a lot of that but I had to learned a lot of that but I had to acquire the other disciplines and you acquire the other disciplines and you acquire the other disciplines and you never acquire enough so never acquire enough so never acquire enough so read read and by the way if I have to read read and by the way if I have to read read and by the way if I have to choose I read history history and choose I read history history and choose I read history history and history history history good works of History not lousy books good works of History not lousy books good works of History not lousy books last question you've talked about a last question you've talked about a last question you've talked about a survival of a Nation survival of a Nation survival of a Nation you yourself are a mortal being do you you yourself are a mortal being do you you yourself are a mortal being do you contemplate your mortality contemplate your mortality contemplate your mortality to contemplate your death are you afraid to contemplate your death are you afraid to contemplate your death are you afraid of death of death of death aren't you yes who's not I mean if your aren't you yes who's not I mean if your aren't you yes who's not I mean if your conscience if you're a a a being with conscience if you're a a a being with conscience if you're a a a being with conscience I mean one of the unhappy conscience I mean one of the unhappy conscience I mean one of the unhappy things about the human brain is that it things about the human brain is that it things about the human brain is that it can contemplate its own uh uh its own can contemplate its own uh uh its own can contemplate its own uh uh its own demise and so we have to we all make our

demise and so we have to we all make our demise and so we have to we all make our compromises with this but I I think the compromises with this but I I think the compromises with this but I I think the question is what lives on question is what lives on question is what lives on uh what lives on Beyond us and I think uh what lives on Beyond us and I think uh what lives on Beyond us and I think that you have to Define how much of uh that you have to Define how much of uh that you have to Define how much of uh of posterity do you want to influence I of posterity do you want to influence I of posterity do you want to influence I cannot influence cannot influence cannot influence course of uh Humanity we are specs you course of uh Humanity we are specs you course of uh Humanity we are specs you know little specks so that's not the know little specks so that's not the know little specks so that's not the issue but in my case I've devoted my issue but in my case I've devoted my issue but in my case I've devoted my life to a very defined purpose and that life to a very defined purpose and that life to a very defined purpose and that is to assure the future is to assure the future is to assure the future and security and I would say permanence but that is I would say permanence but that is obviously a limited thing of the Jewish obviously a limited thing of the Jewish obviously a limited thing of the Jewish State and the Jewish people I don't State and the Jewish people I don't State and the Jewish people I don't think one can exist without the other so think one can exist without the other so think one can exist without the other so I've devoted my life to that and I hope I've devoted my life to that and I hope I've devoted my life to that and I hope that that that in my time on this Earth and in my years in my time on this Earth and in my years in my time on this Earth and in my years in office I'd have contributed to that in office I'd have contributed to that in office I'd have contributed to that well you had one heck of a life well you had one heck of a life well you had one heck of a life starting from uh MIT to six terms as starting from uh MIT to six terms as starting from uh MIT to six terms as prime minister prime minister prime minister thank you for this stroll through human thank you for this stroll through human thank you for this stroll through human history and for this conversation it was history and for this conversation it was history and for this conversation it was an honor thank you and I hope you come an honor thank you and I hope you come an honor thank you and I hope you come back to Israel many times it's uh back to Israel many times it's uh back to Israel many times it's uh remember it's the Innovation Nation it's remember it's the Innovation Nation it's remember it's the Innovation Nation it's a robust democracy don't believe all the a robust democracy don't believe all the a robust democracy don't believe all the stuff that you're being told it'll stuff that you're being told it'll stuff that you're being told it'll remain that uh it kind of be any other remain that uh it kind of be any other remain that uh it kind of be any other way and it's I'll tell you the other way and it's I'll tell you the other way and it's I'll tell you the other thing thing thing is the best ally of the United States

is the best ally of the United States is the best ally of the United States and its importance is growing by the day and its importance is growing by the day and its importance is growing by the day because our capacities in the because our capacities in the because our capacities in the information world are growing by today information world are growing by today information world are growing by today we need a coalition of the like-minded we need a coalition of the like-minded we need a coalition of the like-minded smarts smarts smarts this is a smart Nation this is a smart Nation this is a smart Nation and we share the basic values of freedom and we share the basic values of freedom and we share the basic values of freedom and liberty with the United States so and liberty with the United States so and liberty with the United States so the Coalition of the smarts the Coalition of the smarts the Coalition of the smarts means Israel is uh the sixth eye and means Israel is uh the sixth eye and means Israel is uh the sixth eye and America has no better Ally America has no better Ally America has no better Ally all right now off Mike I'm gonna force all right now off Mike I'm gonna force all right now off Mike I'm gonna force you to finally tell me who's going to you to finally tell me who's going to you to finally tell me who's going to win Elon musker Mark Zuckerberg but win Elon musker Mark Zuckerberg but win Elon musker Mark Zuckerberg but that's uh that's uh that's uh that's a good time man we ran out of that's a good time man we ran out of that's a good time man we ran out of time here I'll tell you outside time here I'll tell you outside time here I'll tell you outside thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this thanks for listening to this conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu to conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu to conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu to support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from Mahatma Gandhi Mahatma Gandhi Mahatma Gandhi and I for an eye will only make the and I for an eye will only make the and I for an eye will only make the whole world blind whole world blind whole world blind thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see thank you for listening and hope to see you next time