David Pakman: Politics of Trump, Biden, Bernie, AOC, Socialism & Wokeism | Lex Fridman Podcast #375

I tweet that and then I finish the day I tweet that and then I finish the day and I wake up the next morning and I and I wake up the next morning and I and I wake up the next morning and I glance at my phone I'm seeing all these glance at my phone I'm seeing all these glance at my phone I'm seeing all these verified accounts that are you know verified accounts that are you know verified accounts that are you know quote tweeting it and demanding a quote tweeting it and demanding a quote tweeting it and demanding a retraction and whatever and I go uh oh retraction and whatever and I go uh oh retraction and whatever and I go uh oh okay this looks like it's getting looks okay this looks like it's getting looks okay this looks like it's getting looks like it's getting some attention um I like it's getting some attention um I like it's getting some attention um I then continue about my day around noon I then continue about my day around noon I then continue about my day around noon I hear from my dad that he got a 100 hear from my dad that he got a 100 hear from my dad that he got a 100 messages from you should have aborted messages from you should have aborted messages from you should have aborted your son to we're going to find all of your son to we're going to find all of your son to we're going to find all of you to whatever else my dad has no idea you to whatever else my dad has no idea you to whatever else my dad has no idea what's going on he's like I don't know what's going on he's like I don't know what's going on he's like I don't know what this is but I have a 100 what this is but I have a 100 what this is but I have a 100 DMS to everything else you can imagine DMS to everything else you can imagine DMS to everything else you can imagine um and I start to get emails about you um and I start to get emails about you um and I start to get emails about you know we you know your Jewish faith this know we you know your Jewish faith this know we you know your Jewish faith this and that and the other thing and so at and that and the other thing and so at and that and the other thing and so at that point to me I thought this is just that point to me I thought this is just that point to me I thought this is just going to get worse and worse and worse going to get worse and worse and worse going to get worse and worse and worse and so I deleted the tweet and I really and so I deleted the tweet and I really and so I deleted the tweet and I really regret doing that because over the 48 regret doing that because over the 48 regret doing that because over the 48 hours that followed yes the attacks hours that followed yes the attacks hours that followed yes the attacks escalated it went through Candace Owens escalated it went through Candace Owens escalated it went through Candace Owens and then at foxnews.com Newsmax kind of and then at foxnews.com Newsmax kind of and then at foxnews.com Newsmax kind of peing with with Donald Trump Jr and it peing with with Donald Trump Jr and it peing with with Donald Trump Jr and it was was was horrible the following is a conversation horrible the following is a conversation horrible the following is a conversation with David Pacman a left-wing with David Pacman a left-wing with David Pacman a left-wing Progressive political commentator and Progressive political commentator and Progressive political commentator and host of the David Pacman show I hope to host of the David Pacman show I hope to host of the David Pacman show I hope to continue to have many conversations on continue to have many conversations on continue to have many conversations on politics with prominent insightful and politics with prominent insightful and politics with prominent insightful and sometimes controversial figures across sometimes controversial figures across sometimes controversial figures across the political Spectrum David and I have the political Spectrum David and I have the political Spectrum David and I have been planning to speak for a long time

been planning to speak for a long time been planning to speak for a long time and I'm sure we'll speak many more times and I'm sure we'll speak many more times and I'm sure we'll speak many more times this conversation was challenging eye this conversation was challenging eye this conversation was challenging eye openening and fun this is Alex Freedman openening and fun this is Alex Freedman openening and fun this is Alex Freedman podcast to support it please check out podcast to support it please check out podcast to support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's David dear friends here's David dear friends here's David pman are there interesting differences pman are there interesting differences pman are there interesting differences to you between terms like liberal to you between terms like liberal to you between terms like liberal Democrat leftwing leftist Progressive Democrat leftwing leftist Progressive Democrat leftwing leftist Progressive Socialist Communist Marxist farle Center Socialist Communist Marxist farle Center Socialist Communist Marxist farle Center left all these labels is there left all these labels is there left all these labels is there interesting distinctions between them interesting distinctions between them interesting distinctions between them yeah there's two sets of distinctions yeah there's two sets of distinctions yeah there's two sets of distinctions one is if you just want to say let's one is if you just want to say let's one is if you just want to say let's define each of these as political terms define each of these as political terms define each of these as political terms they're all different terms you can be a they're all different terms you can be a they're all different terms you can be a progressive ideologically but not be a progressive ideologically but not be a progressive ideologically but not be a member of the democratic party many say member of the democratic party many say member of the democratic party many say the Democratic party isn't even really the Democratic party isn't even really the Democratic party isn't even really very Progressive so these are certainly very Progressive so these are certainly very Progressive so these are certainly terms that we could Define uh in order terms that we could Define uh in order terms that we could Define uh in order to have a conversation about the next to have a conversation about the next to have a conversation about the next thing kind of as a precursor to a thing kind of as a precursor to a thing kind of as a precursor to a conversation sometimes the terms are conversation sometimes the terms are conversation sometimes the terms are used in order to tag someone with a used in order to tag someone with a used in order to tag someone with a certain ideology that's not really certain ideology that's not really certain ideology that's not really linked to policy or any particular linked to policy or any particular linked to policy or any particular political question but they can be used political question but they can be used political question but they can be used positively or negatively to just kind of positively or negatively to just kind of positively or negatively to just kind of say here is the image of this individual say here is the image of this individual say here is the image of this individual that I have in my mind so like Marxist that I have in my mind so like Marxist that I have in my mind so like Marxist is right now very popularly being used is right now very popularly being used is right now very popularly being used by some on the right um to attack by some on the right um to attack by some on the right um to attack Democrats there's very few actual Democrats there's very few actual Democrats there's very few actual marxists certainly not in positions of marxists certainly not in positions of marxists certainly not in positions of power in the United United States but power in the United United States but power in the United United States but even among the general population um so

even among the general population um so even among the general population um so I think it's important to distinguish I think it's important to distinguish I think it's important to distinguish are we defining these terms because we are we defining these terms because we are we defining these terms because we want to compare and contrast the ideas want to compare and contrast the ideas want to compare and contrast the ideas that a particular group might bring to that a particular group might bring to that a particular group might bring to the discussion or are we using them as the discussion or are we using them as the discussion or are we using them as insults or to stifle conversation insults or to stifle conversation insults or to stifle conversation they're terms that can be used to start they're terms that can be used to start they're terms that can be used to start conversation or to stop it and the use conversation or to stop it and the use conversation or to stop it and the use of those terms is evolving rapidly month of those terms is evolving rapidly month of those terms is evolving rapidly month by month so the term leftist I think is by month so the term leftist I think is by month so the term leftist I think is a relatively popular term now to use in a relatively popular term now to use in a relatively popular term now to use in the negative context to the negative context to the negative context to describe um describe um describe um what an outraged leftwing commentator I what an outraged leftwing commentator I what an outraged leftwing commentator I think what you're kind of grasping on to think what you're kind of grasping on to think what you're kind of grasping on to is that there's probably some set of is that there's probably some set of is that there's probably some set of ideas that would apply to most of those ideas that would apply to most of those ideas that would apply to most of those who consider themselves to be on the who consider themselves to be on the who consider themselves to be on the left the discussion of how that term is left the discussion of how that term is left the discussion of how that term is mostly being used is not about policy mostly being used is not about policy mostly being used is not about policy ideas you're accurately kind of uh uh ideas you're accurately kind of uh uh ideas you're accurately kind of uh uh identifying that and it does seem like identifying that and it does seem like identifying that and it does seem like Progressive is no longer being used as a Progressive is no longer being used as a Progressive is no longer being used as a smear and leftist is being used as a smear and leftist is being used as a smear and leftist is being used as a smear more at this point okay but smear more at this point okay but smear more at this point okay but sometimes some of these terms are useful sometimes some of these terms are useful sometimes some of these terms are useful like can we try to pick the terms that like can we try to pick the terms that like can we try to pick the terms that are useful like liberal and Progressive are useful like liberal and Progressive are useful like liberal and Progressive and and and Democrat liberal and Progressive is Democrat liberal and Progressive is Democrat liberal and Progressive is there an interesting definable there an interesting definable there an interesting definable distinction between liberal and distinction between liberal and distinction between liberal and Progressive to you that's a maybe one of Progressive to you that's a maybe one of Progressive to you that's a maybe one of the most interesting ones 10 years ago the most interesting ones 10 years ago the most interesting ones 10 years ago liberal often meant prog what now we liberal often meant prog what now we liberal often meant prog what now we mean by mean by mean by Progressive more recently the progress Progressive more recently the progress Progressive more recently the progress socialist leaning part of the political socialist leaning part of the political socialist leaning part of the political Spectrum has started to use liberal to

Spectrum has started to use liberal to Spectrum has started to use liberal to Mean Joe Biden to mean someone who is Mean Joe Biden to mean someone who is Mean Joe Biden to mean someone who is not really left enough so liberal is not really left enough so liberal is not really left enough so liberal is very interesting because I remember very interesting because I remember very interesting because I remember talking with my audience years ago maybe talking with my audience years ago maybe talking with my audience years ago maybe eight years ago or something like that eight years ago or something like that eight years ago or something like that where I identified I'm going to now use where I identified I'm going to now use where I identified I'm going to now use the term Progressive more commonly to the term Progressive more commonly to the term Progressive more commonly to describe my own beliefs because liberal describe my own beliefs because liberal describe my own beliefs because liberal has now been made a smear it's being has now been made a smear it's being has now been made a smear it's being shifted into something else and it also shifted into something else and it also shifted into something else and it also means more of like a center left means more of like a center left means more of like a center left politics so it's changed in some sense politics so it's changed in some sense politics so it's changed in some sense by by necessity by force and also by by necessity by force and also by by necessity by force and also because the the Spectrum has shifted to because the the Spectrum has shifted to because the the Spectrum has shifted to some degree so the term liberal has some degree so the term liberal has some degree so the term liberal has evolved now liberal meaning some kind of evolved now liberal meaning some kind of evolved now liberal meaning some kind of uh embodiment of the mainstream uh embodiment of the mainstream uh embodiment of the mainstream Democratic party almost to some degree Democratic party almost to some degree Democratic party almost to some degree sometimes I'm called uh I'm written off sometimes I'm called uh I'm written off sometimes I'm called uh I'm written off by you know within my space there are by you know within my space there are by you know within my space there are all sorts of Shades of Gray which I'm all sorts of Shades of Gray which I'm all sorts of Shades of Gray which I'm sure we can talk about about where I am sure we can talk about about where I am sure we can talk about about where I am versus should be could be or am wrongly versus should be could be or am wrongly versus should be could be or am wrongly placed and sometimes an attack on me is placed and sometimes an attack on me is placed and sometimes an attack on me is he's just a lib meaning I'm not left he's just a lib meaning I'm not left he's just a lib meaning I'm not left enough I'm not Progressive socialist enough I'm not Progressive socialist enough I'm not Progressive socialist wherever else you want to go so yeah the wherever else you want to go so yeah the wherever else you want to go so yeah the the problem with a lot of these terms the problem with a lot of these terms the problem with a lot of these terms and they're used very casually by people and they're used very casually by people and they're used very casually by people who call into my show is that unless we who call into my show is that unless we who call into my show is that unless we actually Define them each time they very actually Define them each time they very actually Define them each time they very often mean very different things to often mean very different things to often mean very different things to different people and often come with an different people and often come with an different people and often come with an agenda attached to them and so I find agenda attached to them and so I find agenda attached to them and so I find that they often stifle meaningful that they often stifle meaningful that they often stifle meaningful conversation rather than encourage it conversation rather than encourage it conversation rather than encourage it hey do you sense that there's a

hey do you sense that there's a hey do you sense that there's a drifting of uh what is the threshold to drifting of uh what is the threshold to drifting of uh what is the threshold to be a progressive or is is there should be a progressive or is is there should be a progressive or is is there should be used Progressive synonymously with uh be used Progressive synonymously with uh be used Progressive synonymously with uh Democratic Socialist I think we should Democratic Socialist I think we should Democratic Socialist I think we should not use it synonymously with Democratic not use it synonymously with Democratic not use it synonymously with Democratic Socialist and this is where there's Socialist and this is where there's Socialist and this is where there's another linguistic confusion and a another linguistic confusion and a another linguistic confusion and a political confusion so we'll first talk political confusion so we'll first talk political confusion so we'll first talk about the linguistic one social about the linguistic one social about the linguistic one social democracy versus Democratic socialism democracy versus Democratic socialism democracy versus Democratic socialism very similar words in a different order very similar words in a different order very similar words in a different order okay my the way I operate is democratic okay my the way I operate is democratic okay my the way I operate is democratic socialism is actually a form of socialism is actually a form of socialism is actually a form of Socialism where one would seek to Socialism where one would seek to Socialism where one would seek to socialize ownership of the means of socialize ownership of the means of socialize ownership of the means of production as an example social production as an example social production as an example social democracy is a very uh highly regulated democracy is a very uh highly regulated democracy is a very uh highly regulated form of capitalism the likes of which we form of capitalism the likes of which we form of capitalism the likes of which we would see in northern Europe Denmark Etc would see in northern Europe Denmark Etc would see in northern Europe Denmark Etc these are very different things I these are very different things I these are very different things I associate progressivism in associate progressivism in associate progressivism in 2023 with social democracy and would 2023 with social democracy and would 2023 with social democracy and would consider Democratic socialism a form of consider Democratic socialism a form of consider Democratic socialism a form of actual socialism that is different is actual socialism that is different is actual socialism that is different is we're no longer talking about uh a we're no longer talking about uh a we're no longer talking about uh a capitalist organization of society so capitalist organization of society so capitalist organization of society so transition from one to the other is a transition from one to the other is a transition from one to the other is a fundamental shift in how in how Society fundamental shift in how in how Society fundamental shift in how in how Society operates then absolutely and when you operates then absolutely and when you operates then absolutely and when you talk about social democracy you're talk about social democracy you're talk about social democracy you're talking about socializing a couple more talking about socializing a couple more talking about socializing a couple more things than we socialize in most modern things than we socialize in most modern things than we socialize in most modern uh capitalist countries I had this uh capitalist countries I had this uh capitalist countries I had this conversation with Patrick Bet David conversation with Patrick Bet David conversation with Patrick Bet David recently social democracy is okay we've

recently social democracy is okay we've recently social democracy is okay we've socialized the military already in the socialized the military already in the socialized the military already in the United States uh We've socialized some United States uh We've socialized some United States uh We've socialized some health care in the sense of like the VA health care in the sense of like the VA health care in the sense of like the VA and Medicaid Etc we're talking about and Medicaid Etc we're talking about and Medicaid Etc we're talking about socializing a couple more things still socializing a couple more things still socializing a couple more things still in a capitalist country Democratic in a capitalist country Democratic in a capitalist country Democratic socialism would be something beyond that socialism would be something beyond that socialism would be something beyond that and and as someone who is not a and and as someone who is not a and and as someone who is not a Democratic Socialist myself I'm I'm Democratic Socialist myself I'm I'm Democratic Socialist myself I'm I'm maybe not the best advocate for maybe not the best advocate for maybe not the best advocate for explaining exactly how that system would explaining exactly how that system would explaining exactly how that system would function but it would have some version function but it would have some version function but it would have some version of socializing ownership of the means of of socializing ownership of the means of of socializing ownership of the means of production businesses Etc so you production businesses Etc so you production businesses Etc so you mentioned you appeared on the pbd mentioned you appeared on the pbd mentioned you appeared on the pbd podcast with Patrick bad David um the podcast with Patrick bad David um the podcast with Patrick bad David um the debate was pretty intense I I I I should debate was pretty intense I I I I should debate was pretty intense I I I I should say I personally enjoyed it I thought uh say I personally enjoyed it I thought uh say I personally enjoyed it I thought uh actually you did well and I thought actually you did well and I thought actually you did well and I thought Patrick did well it was a good Patrick did well it was a good Patrick did well it was a good conversation I there was a little bit of conversation I there was a little bit of conversation I there was a little bit of tension and I I thought that Patrick tension and I I thought that Patrick tension and I I thought that Patrick actually so I disagree with the internet actually so I disagree with the internet actually so I disagree with the internet I thought Patrick just took on a kind of I thought Patrick just took on a kind of I thought Patrick just took on a kind of Devil's Advocate like he was he was Devil's Advocate like he was he was Devil's Advocate like he was he was purposely being stubborn to bring out purposely being stubborn to bring out purposely being stubborn to bring out the best than you but the internet the best than you but the internet the best than you but the internet thought that he's being stubborn not thought that he's being stubborn not thought that he's being stubborn not being open to your ideas I thought the being open to your ideas I thought the being open to your ideas I thought the tension between ideas um I think a lot tension between ideas um I think a lot tension between ideas um I think a lot of the tension had to do probably with of the tension had to do probably with of the tension had to do probably with uh Donald Trump and Trump supporters uh Donald Trump and Trump supporters uh Donald Trump and Trump supporters that certainly could be the case and that certainly could be the case and that certainly could be the case and people wrote to me a people wrote To Me people wrote to me a people wrote To Me people wrote to me a people wrote To Me the full gamut of everything you can the full gamut of everything you can the full gamut of everything you can imagine from this was your best thing imagine from this was your best thing imagine from this was your best thing you've ever done in public to you got you've ever done in public to you got you've ever done in public to you got humiliated and your mother should have humiliated and your mother should have humiliated and your mother should have aborted you okay so every and everything aborted you okay so every and everything aborted you okay so every and everything in between so you know take your pick

in between so you know take your pick in between so you know take your pick but um the most interesting feedback I but um the most interesting feedback I but um the most interesting feedback I got was from people who asked me after got was from people who asked me after got was from people who asked me after was it incredibly tense and awkward and was it incredibly tense and awkward and was it incredibly tense and awkward and because it seemed so combative and I because it seemed so combative and I because it seemed so combative and I think for I'm so used to those types of think for I'm so used to those types of think for I'm so used to those types of tensions in the discussions that I have tensions in the discussions that I have tensions in the discussions that I have that it's very comfortable to me it's that it's very comfortable to me it's that it's very comfortable to me it's not like afterwards it's it's there's a not like afterwards it's it's there's a not like afterwards it's it's there's a grudge or it's tense or whatever the grudge or it's tense or whatever the grudge or it's tense or whatever the case may be I'm very comfortable just I case may be I'm very comfortable just I case may be I'm very comfortable just I I disagree with people and that's it so I disagree with people and that's it so I disagree with people and that's it so I did not find anything that happened I did not find anything that happened I did not find anything that happened inappropriate I disagreed with a lot of inappropriate I disagreed with a lot of inappropriate I disagreed with a lot of the things he said certainly uh so you the things he said certainly uh so you the things he said certainly uh so you also spoken to Michael noes um I think also spoken to Michael noes um I think also spoken to Michael noes um I think about the idea of what is a woman do you about the idea of what is a woman do you about the idea of what is a woman do you can you speak broadly about your can you speak broadly about your can you speak broadly about your conversation with the people you conversation with the people you conversation with the people you disagree with uh you know some of the disagree with uh you know some of the disagree with uh you know some of the cases it feels like it's gone wrong the cases it feels like it's gone wrong the cases it feels like it's gone wrong the conversations have gone wrong yeah I conversations have gone wrong yeah I conversations have gone wrong yeah I mean I think there's a couple different mean I think there's a couple different mean I think there's a couple different things and I'm the first to tell you things and I'm the first to tell you things and I'm the first to tell you that depending on who I'm talking to I that depending on who I'm talking to I that depending on who I'm talking to I go in with a different attitude about go in with a different attitude about go in with a different attitude about how quote seriously I'm taking it in the how quote seriously I'm taking it in the how quote seriously I'm taking it in the sense of whether I think it's going to sense of whether I think it's going to sense of whether I think it's going to be a deep policy discussion versus where be a deep policy discussion versus where be a deep policy discussion versus where whether it's going to be more of a whether it's going to be more of a whether it's going to be more of a performance for an audience that is performance for an audience that is performance for an audience that is expecting a certain thing and I think expecting a certain thing and I think expecting a certain thing and I think there's different types of shows when I there's different types of shows when I there's different types of shows when I was interviewed by this guy Jesse Lee was interviewed by this guy Jesse Lee was interviewed by this guy Jesse Lee Peterson in Los Angeles it's very Peterson in Los Angeles it's very Peterson in Los Angeles it's very different for example than when I'm different for example than when I'm different for example than when I'm talking to Patrick Bet David just to talking to Patrick Bet David just to talking to Patrick Bet David just to give two two examples I I think the give two two examples I I think the give two two examples I I think the reason I stopped doing the Michael nlls reason I stopped doing the Michael nlls reason I stopped doing the Michael nlls show was the number of of threats I show was the number of of threats I show was the number of of threats I would get after the fact that's really would get after the fact that's really would get after the fact that's really the re I was glad to engage with him to the re I was glad to engage with him to the re I was glad to engage with him to the extent that the interviews were

the extent that the interviews were the extent that the interviews were interesting and you know we could interesting and you know we could interesting and you know we could organize it reasonably efficiently um organize it reasonably efficiently um organize it reasonably efficiently um but the reason I stepped away was sort but the reason I stepped away was sort but the reason I stepped away was sort of the aftermath but I did find him to of the aftermath but I did find him to of the aftermath but I did find him to be someone who was abundantly clear be someone who was abundantly clear be someone who was abundantly clear about his View and where he comes from about his View and where he comes from about his View and where he comes from and while I could not possibly disagree and while I could not possibly disagree and while I could not possibly disagree with more with him in terms of politics with more with him in terms of politics with more with him in terms of politics and culture and our backgrounds and culture and our backgrounds and culture and our backgrounds everything is just so so different I everything is just so so different I everything is just so so different I found it easy to engage in the found it easy to engage in the found it easy to engage in the conversation just because of how upfront conversation just because of how upfront conversation just because of how upfront and clear he was about what his beliefs and clear he was about what his beliefs and clear he was about what his beliefs were but the number of threats was too were but the number of threats was too were but the number of threats was too much yeah it was just too much and this much yeah it was just too much and this much yeah it was just too much and this um you know I don't know if how much you um you know I don't know if how much you um you know I don't know if how much you saw about this recent Twitter dust up I saw about this recent Twitter dust up I saw about this recent Twitter dust up I was involved in that peaked with Donald was involved in that peaked with Donald was involved in that peaked with Donald Trump Jr tweeting about me and then that Trump Jr tweeting about me and then that Trump Jr tweeting about me and then that then declining from there oh let's let's then declining from there oh let's let's then declining from there oh let's let's talk through it I didn't see it I have talk through it I didn't see it I have talk through it I didn't see it I have to understand like uh the way you study to understand like uh the way you study to understand like uh the way you study Shakespeare I have to study your Twitter Shakespeare I have to study your Twitter Shakespeare I have to study your Twitter I have to understand so much how much of I have to understand so much how much of I have to understand so much how much of it sarcasm it's mostly sarcasm I mean it sarcasm it's mostly sarcasm I mean it sarcasm it's mostly sarcasm I mean here's the thing and I know that there here's the thing and I know that there here's the thing and I know that there are people who will say David you're are people who will say David you're are people who will say David you're dealing with such serious issues it's dealing with such serious issues it's dealing with such serious issues it's really not okay not to take everything really not okay not to take everything really not okay not to take everything you do completely seriously but my view you do completely seriously but my view you do completely seriously but my view is it's so incredible that I've between is it's so incredible that I've between is it's so incredible that I've between chance and timing and so different chance and timing and so different chance and timing and so different things fallen into a position where this things fallen into a position where this things fallen into a position where this is what I do professionally and it's a is what I do professionally and it's a is what I do professionally and it's a career and it's financially sustainable career and it's financially sustainable career and it's financially sustainable and all these different things I don't and all these different things I don't and all these different things I don't want to end up taking myself too want to end up taking myself too want to end up taking myself too seriously because I recognize the timing seriously because I recognize the timing seriously because I recognize the timing and luck and all of these other things and luck and all of these other things and luck and all of these other things and this could have gone a completely and this could have gone a completely and this could have gone a completely different way so my approach to a lot of different way so my approach to a lot of different way so my approach to a lot of this is let's not take ourselves too

this is let's not take ourselves too this is let's not take ourselves too seriously and in particular on Twitter a seriously and in particular on Twitter a seriously and in particular on Twitter a platform that you know the degree to platform that you know the degree to platform that you know the degree to which it should be taken very seriously which it should be taken very seriously which it should be taken very seriously may maybe has changed over time I'm may maybe has changed over time I'm may maybe has changed over time I'm always sort of thinking a little bit always sort of thinking a little bit always sort of thinking a little bit tongue-and-cheek on Twitter so what tongue-and-cheek on Twitter so what tongue-and-cheek on Twitter so what happened with uh Donald Trump Jr so or happened with uh Donald Trump Jr so or happened with uh Donald Trump Jr so or the full Arc of it yeah the to make give the full Arc of it yeah the to make give the full Arc of it yeah the to make give you a one minute Arc and then we can you a one minute Arc and then we can you a one minute Arc and then we can pick whichever parts we want after a pick whichever parts we want after a pick whichever parts we want after a mass shooting now you might say there's mass shooting now you might say there's mass shooting now you might say there's like two or three a day you're correct like two or three a day you're correct like two or three a day you're correct after the Nashville mass shooting at a after the Nashville mass shooting at a after the Nashville mass shooting at a Christian School I tweeted snark tongue Christian School I tweeted snark tongue Christian School I tweeted snark tongue and cheek to point that thoughts and and cheek to point that thoughts and and cheek to point that thoughts and prayers not only aren't particularly prayers not only aren't particularly prayers not only aren't particularly useful after a shooting they also don't useful after a shooting they also don't useful after a shooting they also don't prevent shootings that there's some prevent shootings that there's some prevent shootings that there's some confusion about how there would be a confusion about how there would be a confusion about how there would be a shooting at a Christian School given shooting at a Christian School given shooting at a Christian School given that it is a place where prayer is that it is a place where prayer is that it is a place where prayer is taking place I think I I you know taking place I think I I you know taking place I think I I you know jokingly said something like um were jokingly said something like um were jokingly said something like um were they not praying enough for correctly in they not praying enough for correctly in they not praying enough for correctly in my deep journalistic Integrity you have my deep journalistic Integrity you have my deep journalistic Integrity you have it I have your tweet this is this is the it I have your tweet this is this is the it I have your tweet this is this is the only display of journalistic only display of journalistic only display of journalistic Integrity I will show today okay and I Integrity I will show today okay and I Integrity I will show today okay and I have a couple of responses beautiful and have a couple of responses beautiful and have a couple of responses beautiful and you deleted the Tweet since then which I you deleted the Tweet since then which I you deleted the Tweet since then which I regret oh interesting and we can talk regret oh interesting and we can talk regret oh interesting and we can talk about that I would love to because it's about that I would love to because it's about that I would love to because it's such a yeah interesting such a yeah interesting such a yeah interesting decision uh because when you tweet decision uh because when you tweet decision uh because when you tweet something one of the things I've also something one of the things I've also something one of the things I've also learned is you don't often understand learned is you don't often understand learned is you don't often understand how it's going to be read it's going to how it's going to be read it's going to how it's going to be read it's going to be analyzed like I mentioned Shakespeare

be analyzed like I mentioned Shakespeare be analyzed like I mentioned Shakespeare like there's certain the use of certain like there's certain the use of certain like there's certain the use of certain words that you regret saying in a words that you regret saying in a words that you regret saying in a certain kind of way maybe just because certain kind of way maybe just because certain kind of way maybe just because it wasn't as eloquent as as as powerful it wasn't as eloquent as as as powerful it wasn't as eloquent as as as powerful didn't actually convey the thing um or didn't actually convey the thing um or didn't actually convey the thing um or is a distraction to the main message all is a distraction to the main message all is a distraction to the main message all that kind of stuff okay the actual tweet that kind of stuff okay the actual tweet that kind of stuff okay the actual tweet is very surprising that there would be a is very surprising that there would be a is very surprising that there would be a mass shooting at a Christian School mass shooting at a Christian School mass shooting at a Christian School given that lack of prayer is often given that lack of prayer is often given that lack of prayer is often blamed for these horrible events is it blamed for these horrible events is it blamed for these horrible events is it possible they weren't praying enough or possible they weren't praying enough or possible they weren't praying enough or correctly despite being a Christian correctly despite being a Christian correctly despite being a Christian School and School and School and um uh a lot of people quote retweeted um uh a lot of people quote retweeted um uh a lot of people quote retweeted that which I'm assuming was that which I'm assuming was that which I'm assuming was uh uh criticism so Colin Wright wrote I uh uh criticism so Colin Wright wrote I uh uh criticism so Colin Wright wrote I used to consider you a reasonable used to consider you a reasonable used to consider you a reasonable progress Rive but you clearly devolved progress Rive but you clearly devolved progress Rive but you clearly devolved into partisan hackery I'm an atheist yet into partisan hackery I'm an atheist yet into partisan hackery I'm an atheist yet cannot begin to Fathom using the murder cannot begin to Fathom using the murder cannot begin to Fathom using the murder of children and adults at a Christian of children and adults at a Christian of children and adults at a Christian School is an opportunity to dunk on the School is an opportunity to dunk on the School is an opportunity to dunk on the concept of prayer and you responded I'm concept of prayer and you responded I'm concept of prayer and you responded I'm dunking on the people who send thoughts dunking on the people who send thoughts dunking on the people who send thoughts and prayers and do nothing else and the and prayers and do nothing else and the and prayers and do nothing else and the shootings continue okay I'm sure there's shootings continue okay I'm sure there's shootings continue okay I'm sure there's a lot of other interactions there's a a lot of other interactions there's a a lot of other interactions there's a few other hundred thousand interactions few other hundred thousand interactions few other hundred thousand interactions so that do you want the arc leading to so that do you want the arc leading to so that do you want the arc leading to the deleting so so basically I just the deleting so so basically I just the deleting so so basically I just wanted to display do you know what time wanted to display do you know what time wanted to display do you know what time of day I tweeted the original one I feel of day I tweeted the original one I feel of day I tweeted the original one I feel like it was in the afternoon or evening like it was in the afternoon or evening like it was in the afternoon or evening of on a of on a of on a Monday 3:42 p.m. on 27th March 27th Monday 3:42 p.m. on 27th March 27th Monday 3:42 p.m. on 27th March 27th which was a Monday okay so basically I which was a Monday okay so basically I which was a Monday okay so basically I tweet that and then I finish the day and tweet that and then I finish the day and tweet that and then I finish the day and so you tweet and then you go on with

so you tweet and then you go on with so you tweet and then you go on with your day I might have looked once at your day I might have looked once at your day I might have looked once at Twitter and it had 2,000 likes and a few Twitter and it had 2,000 likes and a few Twitter and it had 2,000 likes and a few people saying ah this might have missed people saying ah this might have missed people saying ah this might have missed the mark but it's sort of like it's one the mark but it's sort of like it's one the mark but it's sort of like it's one of my 20,000 tweets I don't know I wake of my 20,000 tweets I don't know I wake of my 20,000 tweets I don't know I wake up the next morning my baby daughter did up the next morning my baby daughter did up the next morning my baby daughter did not sleep till 7:30 the way I would like not sleep till 7:30 the way I would like not sleep till 7:30 the way I would like so she's up at 6:00 a.m. and I get up so she's up at 6:00 a.m. and I get up so she's up at 6:00 a.m. and I get up and I'm just there starting to make and I'm just there starting to make and I'm just there starting to make breakfast and I glance at my phone and breakfast and I glance at my phone and breakfast and I glance at my phone and I'm starting to this was when verified I'm starting to this was when verified I'm starting to this was when verified meant a different thing than it means meant a different thing than it means meant a different thing than it means now um I'm seeing all these verified now um I'm seeing all these verified now um I'm seeing all these verified accounts that are you know quote accounts that are you know quote accounts that are you know quote tweeting it and demanding a retraction tweeting it and demanding a retraction tweeting it and demanding a retraction and whatever and I go uh oh okay this and whatever and I go uh oh okay this and whatever and I go uh oh okay this looks like it's getting looks like it's looks like it's getting looks like it's looks like it's getting looks like it's getting some attention um I then getting some attention um I then getting some attention um I then continue about my day around noon I hear continue about my day around noon I hear continue about my day around noon I hear from my dad that he got a hundred from my dad that he got a hundred from my dad that he got a hundred messages from you should have aborted messages from you should have aborted messages from you should have aborted your son to we're g to find all of you your son to we're g to find all of you your son to we're g to find all of you to whatever else my dad has no idea to whatever else my dad has no idea to whatever else my dad has no idea what's going on he's like I don't know what's going on he's like I don't know what's going on he's like I don't know what this is but I have a hundred what this is but I have a hundred what this is but I have a hundred DMS to everything else you can imagine DMS to everything else you can imagine DMS to everything else you can imagine um and I start to get emails about you um and I start to get emails about you um and I start to get emails about you know we you know your Jewish faith this know we you know your Jewish faith this know we you know your Jewish faith this and that and the other thing and so at and that and the other thing and so at and that and the other thing and so at that point to me I thought this is just that point to me I thought this is just that point to me I thought this is just going to get worse and worse and worse going to get worse and worse and worse going to get worse and worse and worse and so I deleted the tweet and I really and so I deleted the tweet and I really and so I deleted the tweet and I really regret doing that because over the 48 regret doing that because over the 48 regret doing that because over the 48 hours that followed yes the attacks hours that followed yes the attacks hours that followed yes the attacks escalated it went through Candace Owens escalated it went through Candace Owens escalated it went through Candace Owens and then at Fox news.com Newsmax kind of and then at Fox news.com Newsmax kind of and then at Fox news.com Newsmax kind of peing with with Donald Trump Jr and it

peing with with Donald Trump Jr and it peing with with Donald Trump Jr and it was horrible I mean thousands and was horrible I mean thousands and was horrible I mean thousands and thousands of the okay but once I told my thousands of the okay but once I told my thousands of the okay but once I told my audience about what happened I got audience about what happened I got audience about what happened I got thousands of messages from people saying thousands of messages from people saying thousands of messages from people saying saying David only someone who doesn't saying David only someone who doesn't saying David only someone who doesn't know you and is determined to interpret know you and is determined to interpret know you and is determined to interpret this in the worst possible Faith would this in the worst possible Faith would this in the worst possible Faith would think you're blaming kids who died for think you're blaming kids who died for think you're blaming kids who died for getting shot of course you weren't doing getting shot of course you weren't doing getting shot of course you weren't doing that I wish you hadn't deleted it so that I wish you hadn't deleted it so that I wish you hadn't deleted it so that it would still be up and you would that it would still be up and you would that it would still be up and you would now see the tide kind of turning on it now see the tide kind of turning on it now see the tide kind of turning on it this was not a fun three days regardless this was not a fun three days regardless this was not a fun three days regardless but I do regret having deleted it but I do regret having deleted it but I do regret having deleted it because um it was a p i wanted to do the because um it was a p i wanted to do the because um it was a p i wanted to do the quickest thing I thought I could to get quickest thing I thought I could to get quickest thing I thought I could to get people to stop trying to find family people to stop trying to find family people to stop trying to find family members and send them threats and so members and send them threats and so members and send them threats and so around noon that's what I did and the around noon that's what I did and the around noon that's what I did and the truth is the threats didn't stop anyway truth is the threats didn't stop anyway truth is the threats didn't stop anyway because everybody had screenshotted it because everybody had screenshotted it because everybody had screenshotted it and I do wish I had left it up andan is and I do wish I had left it up andan is and I do wish I had left it up andan is there some degree maybe stepping outside there some degree maybe stepping outside there some degree maybe stepping outside yourself that you regret tweeting that yourself that you regret tweeting that yourself that you regret tweeting that in that it feeds the mockery engine that in that it feeds the mockery engine that in that it feeds the mockery engine that that fuels Twitter so like does that that fuels Twitter so like does that that fuels Twitter so like does that tweet really represent what you tweet really represent what you tweet really represent what you believe it absolutely represents the believe it absolutely represents the believe it absolutely represents the disgust with a politics that includes disgust with a politics that includes disgust with a politics that includes saying we can't touch guns we just we saying we can't touch guns we just we saying we can't touch guns we just we can't but we're willing to point to can't but we're willing to point to can't but we're willing to point to mental health or say we need more prayer

mental health or say we need more prayer mental health or say we need more prayer in schools or whatever in schools or whatever in schools or whatever 1,000% it represents that view is it the 1,000% it represents that view is it the 1,000% it represents that view is it the type of snark and sarcasm that I would type of snark and sarcasm that I would type of snark and sarcasm that I would use if given an hour to discuss the use if given an hour to discuss the use if given an hour to discuss the topic rather than whatever the number of topic rather than whatever the number of topic rather than whatever the number of characters is now on Twitter no characters is now on Twitter no characters is now on Twitter no definitely not and so I am very definitely not and so I am very definitely not and so I am very cognizant of the fact that it was cognizant of the fact that it was cognizant of the fact that it was unnecessarily provocative How It Was unnecessarily provocative How It Was unnecessarily provocative How It Was Written I I think I asked a similar Written I I think I asked a similar Written I I think I asked a similar question to Ben Shapiro do you worry question to Ben Shapiro do you worry question to Ben Shapiro do you worry that this style of presentation can turn that this style of presentation can turn that this style of presentation can turn you from being um you know a deeply you from being um you know a deeply you from being um you know a deeply thoughtful objective political thinker thoughtful objective political thinker thoughtful objective political thinker to somebody who is just a to somebody who is just a to somebody who is just a partisan hack or partisan hack or partisan hack or partisan um what's a good word talking partisan um what's a good word talking partisan um what's a good word talking head do you mean with regard to Twitter head do you mean with regard to Twitter head do you mean with regard to Twitter or the format of my show in general so or the format of my show in general so or the format of my show in general so Twitter for now let's start with Twitter Twitter for now let's start with Twitter Twitter for now let's start with Twitter for now and can you Silo for now and can you Silo for now and can you Silo your style of communication on Twitter your style of communication on Twitter your style of communication on Twitter from being a virus that affects your from being a virus that affects your from being a virus that affects your mind right I don't have deep thoughts mind right I don't have deep thoughts mind right I don't have deep thoughts about the Twitter component Beyond I about the Twitter component Beyond I about the Twitter component Beyond I think across all sorts of disciplines think across all sorts of disciplines think across all sorts of disciplines this is not the best way to most this is not the best way to most this is not the best way to most effectively solve effectively solve effectively solve problems and figure out solutions to problems and figure out solutions to problems and figure out solutions to complex issues you're talking about complex issues you're talking about complex issues you're talking about Twitter now right now I'm talking about Twitter now right now I'm talking about Twitter now right now I'm talking about Twitter that being said I think all of Twitter that being said I think all of Twitter that being said I think all of us to some degree have to adapt our us to some degree have to adapt our us to some degree have to adapt our content to the platform that we're using content to the platform that we're using content to the platform that we're using in the same way that what I post to in the same way that what I post to in the same way that what I post to YouTube is different than what I post to YouTube is different than what I post to YouTube is different than what I post to Tik Tok what I post to Twitter is also

Tik Tok what I post to Twitter is also Tik Tok what I post to Twitter is also different do I think Twitter has been an different do I think Twitter has been an different do I think Twitter has been an unmitigated good for society no um have unmitigated good for society no um have unmitigated good for society no um have I chosen to step into Twitter as one of I chosen to step into Twitter as one of I chosen to step into Twitter as one of the ways in which I get my message out the ways in which I get my message out the ways in which I get my message out with the good and the bad yes and I with the good and the bad yes and I with the good and the bad yes and I think that there is a deep conversation think that there is a deep conversation think that there is a deep conversation to be had there I think zooming out a to be had there I think zooming out a to be had there I think zooming out a little bit in terms of what I do and I little bit in terms of what I do and I little bit in terms of what I do and I was hoping this would come up because I was hoping this would come up because I was hoping this would come up because I think it's really interesting I will think it's really interesting I will think it's really interesting I will often get emails from people who say two often get emails from people who say two often get emails from people who say two things I will get the you would have things I will get the you would have things I will get the you would have such a bigger audience if you did X Type such a bigger audience if you did X Type such a bigger audience if you did X Type emails and usually they are plays to emails and usually they are plays to emails and usually they are plays to sensationalism M salacious and and sensationalism M salacious and and sensationalism M salacious and and titilating content more pop culture titilating content more pop culture titilating content more pop culture Stuff Etc on the other hand it's folks Stuff Etc on the other hand it's folks Stuff Etc on the other hand it's folks who say listen what you're doing really who say listen what you're doing really who say listen what you're doing really isn't as serious as it could be and it isn't as serious as it could be and it isn't as serious as it could be and it seems like you could do something more seems like you could do something more seems like you could do something more serious and you should consider doing serious and you should consider doing serious and you should consider doing deep Dives you know once it was do a deep Dives you know once it was do a deep Dives you know once it was do a deep dive into Calvin coolage and I was deep dive into Calvin coolage and I was deep dive into Calvin coolage and I was like nobody will watch that so there like nobody will watch that so there like nobody will watch that so there it's not by accident that my show is the it's not by accident that my show is the it's not by accident that my show is the way it is right in an hour I'm thinking way it is right in an hour I'm thinking way it is right in an hour I'm thinking of all the platforms I'm on and I'm of all the platforms I'm on and I'm of all the platforms I'm on and I'm saying okay I want to do a relatively saying okay I want to do a relatively saying okay I want to do a relatively deep dive on the federal budget and I deep dive on the federal budget and I deep dive on the federal budget and I want to talk about some of the um uh want to talk about some of the um uh want to talk about some of the um uh political Tom Foolery going on within political Tom Foolery going on within political Tom Foolery going on within the post office and I'm going to do a the post office and I'm going to do a the post office and I'm going to do a segment about the wacky rally where segment about the wacky rally where segment about the wacky rally where Trump said crazy things and made up Trump said crazy things and made up Trump said crazy things and made up three words and said he endorsed a three words and said he endorsed a three words and said he endorsed a candidate whose named right I'm crafting

candidate whose named right I'm crafting candidate whose named right I'm crafting that in total to find a balance between that in total to find a balance between that in total to find a balance between let's build this audience as much as I let's build this audience as much as I let's build this audience as much as I can in order to have a bigger base to can in order to have a bigger base to can in order to have a bigger base to get my message out there and include the get my message out there and include the get my message out there and include the more serious stuff with the hope that more serious stuff with the hope that more serious stuff with the hope that there's a little bit of something for there's a little bit of something for there's a little bit of something for everyone and I'm finding a balance everyone and I'm finding a balance everyone and I'm finding a balance between those two sides of the spectrum between those two sides of the spectrum between those two sides of the spectrum it it's a deliberate thing and I'm aware it it's a deliberate thing and I'm aware it it's a deliberate thing and I'm aware that if I were producing my show 50 that if I were producing my show 50 that if I were producing my show 50 years ago the balance would probably be years ago the balance would probably be years ago the balance would probably be different and it would probably change different and it would probably change different and it would probably change again if we didn't if the show was Audio again if we didn't if the show was Audio again if we didn't if the show was Audio Only rather than having all these video Only rather than having all these video Only rather than having all these video platforms it would also be different but platforms it would also be different but platforms it would also be different but it's a decision that's proactively made it's a decision that's proactively made it's a decision that's proactively made to try to get the best and most out of to try to get the best and most out of to try to get the best and most out of the hour that I'm creating every day the hour that I'm creating every day the hour that I'm creating every day well it just feels like there's an well it just feels like there's an well it just feels like there's an entire machine fed by Twitter and entire machine fed by Twitter and entire machine fed by Twitter and journalism that wants to divide people journalism that wants to divide people journalism that wants to divide people and the drama of that division and the drama of that division and the drama of that division highlighting the the the partisan highlighting the the the partisan highlighting the the the partisan division the drama of that division division the drama of that division division the drama of that division feels like it's a tension with objective feels like it's a tension with objective feels like it's a tension with objective clear thinking sometimes and so that's clear thinking sometimes and so that's clear thinking sometimes and so that's the I worry that there's a drug to it the I worry that there's a drug to it the I worry that there's a drug to it that's too much fun to mock that's too much fun to mock that's too much fun to mock ridiculous people on on a uh on the ridiculous people on on a uh on the ridiculous people on on a uh on the other side I think you're right about other side I think you're right about other side I think you're right about that and the fact that that is that and the fact that that is that and the fact that that is true to me supports I've talked with my true to me supports I've talked with my true to me supports I've talked with my audience about you know like the old audience about you know like the old audience about you know like the old food pyramid which I guess was like food pyramid which I guess was like food pyramid which I guess was like wrong but let's imagine that there was a wrong but let's imagine that there was a wrong but let's imagine that there was a pyramid that that made sense what's at pyramid that that made sense what's at pyramid that that made sense what's at the bottom bread I think uh like whole

the bottom bread I think uh like whole the bottom bread I think uh like whole grains maybe I don't remember it's been grains maybe I don't remember it's been grains maybe I don't remember it's been a while suar on the top junk food is at a while suar on the top junk food is at a while suar on the top junk food is at the very top I'm very open with my the very top I'm very open with my the very top I'm very open with my audience the vast majority of what I do audience the vast majority of what I do audience the vast majority of what I do is the top of that pyramid and I tell is the top of that pyramid and I tell is the top of that pyramid and I tell people very openly I don't consume a lot people very openly I don't consume a lot people very openly I don't consume a lot of the type of content I produce and I of the type of content I produce and I of the type of content I produce and I think it's really important to as a base think it's really important to as a base think it's really important to as a base be doing critical thinking epistemology be doing critical thinking epistemology be doing critical thinking epistemology how do we believe the things we believe how do we believe the things we believe how do we believe the things we believe Basics about the world after that Basics about the world after that Basics about the world after that reading history economics philosophy Etc reading history economics philosophy Etc reading history economics philosophy Etc after that now we're getting into after that now we're getting into after that now we're getting into current events I would mostly be looking current events I would mostly be looking current events I would mostly be looking at at at consuming um primary source reporting consuming um primary source reporting consuming um primary source reporting things like Associated Press whatever I things like Associated Press whatever I things like Associated Press whatever I know everybody will have a different know everybody will have a different know everybody will have a different list of what counts there after that is list of what counts there after that is list of what counts there after that is when I'd say indulge in some of the when I'd say indulge in some of the when I'd say indulge in some of the commentary type stuff that I do if you commentary type stuff that I do if you commentary type stuff that I do if you find that I'm thoughtful enough to make find that I'm thoughtful enough to make find that I'm thoughtful enough to make it into that but I'm very open and it into that but I'm very open and it into that but I'm very open and really what I try to do on my Show often really what I try to do on my Show often really what I try to do on my Show often is in being that at the top of the P is in being that at the top of the P is in being that at the top of the P pyramid tell people there's all this pyramid tell people there's all this pyramid tell people there's all this other stuff that should be forming your other stuff that should be forming your other stuff that should be forming your foundation that I hope you're consuming foundation that I hope you're consuming foundation that I hope you're consuming in addition to just watching me and I'm in addition to just watching me and I'm in addition to just watching me and I'm very open with my audience about that very open with my audience about that very open with my audience about that what about the shape the Dynamics the what about the shape the Dynamics the what about the shape the Dynamics the the characteristics of your audience is the characteristics of your audience is the characteristics of your audience is there some degree to which you're there some degree to which you're there some degree to which you're through mocking maybe through mocking maybe through mocking maybe Republicans that there's

Republicans that there's Republicans that there's um there's a lean to that audience and um there's a lean to that audience and um there's a lean to that audience and then you become captured by the audience then you become captured by the audience then you become captured by the audience do you worry about the audience capture do you worry about the audience capture do you worry about the audience capture I worry about it I'm relatively I worry about it I'm relatively I worry about it I'm relatively comfortable that it's not shaping the comfortable that it's not shaping the comfortable that it's not shaping the program to a great program to a great program to a great degree in the sense that at this point I degree in the sense that at this point I degree in the sense that at this point I have a pretty good sense of the things I have a pretty good sense of the things I have a pretty good sense of the things I can say that will upset what I might can say that will upset what I might can say that will upset what I might call my core audience you know one of call my core audience you know one of call my core audience you know one of the interesting things just to briefly the interesting things just to briefly the interesting things just to briefly go back to the Twitter thing was those go back to the Twitter thing was those go back to the Twitter thing was those people who were furious with me on people who were furious with me on people who were furious with me on Twitter and they contacted my Twitter and they contacted my Twitter and they contacted my advertisers and some advertisers dropped advertisers and some advertisers dropped advertisers and some advertisers dropped me and on and on and on none of them are me and on and on and on none of them are me and on and on and on none of them are actually in my audience none none of actually in my audience none none of actually in my audience none none of them are regular consumers of my them are regular consumers of my them are regular consumers of my audience they were kind of weaponized audience they were kind of weaponized audience they were kind of weaponized Against Me by people who said hey look Against Me by people who said hey look Against Me by people who said hey look at this the people who follow Candace at this the people who follow Candace at this the people who follow Candace Owens on Twitter other than for the kind Owens on Twitter other than for the kind Owens on Twitter other than for the kind of shock value they're not in my of shock value they're not in my of shock value they're not in my audience and with my core audience I audience and with my core audience I audience and with my core audience I know there are things I can talk about know there are things I can talk about know there are things I can talk about that will generate um displeasure I that will generate um displeasure I that will generate um displeasure I guess you could say with my audience guess you could say with my audience guess you could say with my audience sometimes when I touch the Israeli sometimes when I touch the Israeli sometimes when I touch the Israeli Palestinian conflict that will happen Palestinian conflict that will happen Palestinian conflict that will happen sometimes on vaccines there's a portion sometimes on vaccines there's a portion sometimes on vaccines there's a portion of my audience that is more generally of my audience that is more generally of my audience that is more generally skeptical of vaccines um sometimes on skeptical of vaccines um sometimes on skeptical of vaccines um sometimes on some foreign policy uh issues or you some foreign policy uh issues or you some foreign policy uh issues or you know I'm not a big fan of Maryann know I'm not a big fan of Maryann know I'm not a big fan of Maryann Williamson nor Bobby Kennedy Junior's um Williamson nor Bobby Kennedy Junior's um Williamson nor Bobby Kennedy Junior's um challenges to Joe Biden not because I challenges to Joe Biden not because I challenges to Joe Biden not because I love Joe Biden but because I don't love Joe Biden but because I don't love Joe Biden but because I don't consider them to be the most serious consider them to be the most serious consider them to be the most serious Challengers I know there's people in my Challengers I know there's people in my Challengers I know there's people in my audience who don't like that they get audience who don't like that they get audience who don't like that they get they get mad at me about that and I'm

they get mad at me about that and I'm they get mad at me about that and I'm totally okay with that uh and that totally okay with that uh and that totally okay with that uh and that tension with with my core audience so in tension with with my core audience so in tension with with my core audience so in that sense I don't feel as though I've that sense I don't feel as though I've that sense I don't feel as though I've had that audience capture take place but had that audience capture take place but had that audience capture take place but I know it can happen and I'm very open I know it can happen and I'm very open I know it can happen and I'm very open to to being told ways in which it may be to to being told ways in which it may be to to being told ways in which it may be happening without me noticing uh so I've happening without me noticing uh so I've happening without me noticing uh so I've uh made a call for questions on Reddit uh made a call for questions on Reddit uh made a call for questions on Reddit for this for this for this conversation there's a lot of good conversation there's a lot of good conversation there's a lot of good questions that I'll probably bring up questions that I'll probably bring up questions that I'll probably bring up but one of them was about miam but one of them was about miam but one of them was about miam Williamson um asking why David thinks Williamson um asking why David thinks Williamson um asking why David thinks she is a garbage candidate uh which of she is a garbage candidate uh which of she is a garbage candidate uh which of course I've never said U but perhaps you course I've never said U but perhaps you course I've never said U but perhaps you have more eloquently criticized so let's have more eloquently criticized so let's have more eloquently criticized so let's let's go there sure to the 2024 election let's go there sure to the 2024 election let's go there sure to the 2024 election okay so Biden Joe Biden officially okay so Biden Joe Biden officially okay so Biden Joe Biden officially announced that he's running again Donald announced that he's running again Donald announced that he's running again Donald Trump officially announced that he's Trump officially announced that he's Trump officially announced that he's running again in if that's the matchup running again in if that's the matchup running again in if that's the matchup who do you think who do you think who do you think wins if the elections held wins if the elections held wins if the elections held today I think today I think today I think Biden why well first of all I believe he Biden why well first of all I believe he Biden why well first of all I believe he won last time and if I start with the won last time and if I start with the won last time and if I start with the results from 2020 and I think to myself results from 2020 and I think to myself results from 2020 and I think to myself what has happened since then that would what has happened since then that would what has happened since then that would push or pull voters one way or the other push or pull voters one way or the other push or pull voters one way or the other I have a hard time making a case that I have a hard time making a case that I have a hard time making a case that Trump is in a better position today than Trump is in a better position today than Trump is in a better position today than he was in November of he was in November of he was in November of 2020 so that's kind of my starting point 2020 so that's kind of my starting point 2020 so that's kind of my starting point which is it's a rematch of an election which is it's a rematch of an election which is it's a rematch of an election with a known outcome what has changed

with a known outcome what has changed with a known outcome what has changed and I can't make a case for and I can't make a case for and I can't make a case for circumstances having changed in Trump's circumstances having changed in Trump's circumstances having changed in Trump's favor to give a couple of state level favor to give a couple of state level favor to give a couple of state level examples Florida seems to be kind of examples Florida seems to be kind of examples Florida seems to be kind of moving more to the Republican side since moving more to the Republican side since moving more to the Republican side since 2020 but Trump won that state already in 2020 but Trump won that state already in 2020 but Trump won that state already in 2020 so it wouldn't really change the 2020 so it wouldn't really change the 2020 so it wouldn't really change the outcome Arizona was close I think outcome Arizona was close I think outcome Arizona was close I think Arizona has moved to the left since 2020 Arizona has moved to the left since 2020 Arizona has moved to the left since 2020 so I don't see Trump taking that one so I don't see Trump taking that one so I don't see Trump taking that one Wisconsin I think the same sort of thing Wisconsin I think the same sort of thing Wisconsin I think the same sort of thing applies so being very like practical applies so being very like practical applies so being very like practical that would be kind of the start of my that would be kind of the start of my that would be kind of the start of my reasoning do you think Joe Biden is a reasoning do you think Joe Biden is a reasoning do you think Joe Biden is a better candidate now than he was in better candidate now than he was in better candidate now than he was in 2020 I think he's a worse candidate this 2020 I think he's a worse candidate this 2020 I think he's a worse candidate this is going to sound agist but I think he's is going to sound agist but I think he's is going to sound agist but I think he's a worse candidate in that he's even a worse candidate in that he's even a worse candidate in that he's even older and there already seems to be an older and there already seems to be an older and there already seems to be an appetite for younger candidates appetite for younger candidates appetite for younger candidates particularly on the Democratic vote in particularly on the Democratic vote in particularly on the Democratic vote in side so he's going to be 4 years older side so he's going to be 4 years older side so he's going to be 4 years older and in a sense that could be a and in a sense that could be a and in a sense that could be a liability however he also is going to liability however he also is going to liability however he also is going to have four years of accomplishments now have four years of accomplishments now have four years of accomplishments now you might not like the things he's done you might not like the things he's done you might not like the things he's done in which case that would hurt him but he in which case that would hurt him but he in which case that would hurt him but he has started to accumulate um not has started to accumulate um not has started to accumulate um not insignificant number of accomplishments insignificant number of accomplishments insignificant number of accomplishments some of the big things that are known some of the big things that are known some of the big things that are known inflation reduction act and Co stimulus inflation reduction act and Co stimulus inflation reduction act and Co stimulus you know but also less well-known things you know but also less well-known things you know but also less well-known things like a bunch of little tweaks to like a bunch of little tweaks to like a bunch of little tweaks to healthcare

healthcare healthcare of little tweaks to student lending of little tweaks to student lending of little tweaks to student lending there's been a lot of little things um there's been a lot of little things um there's been a lot of little things um at the macro level I don't actually at the macro level I don't actually at the macro level I don't actually think Joe Biden has that much to do with think Joe Biden has that much to do with think Joe Biden has that much to do with this the same way I didn't credit or this the same way I didn't credit or this the same way I didn't credit or attack Trump for a lot of the attack Trump for a lot of the attack Trump for a lot of the macroeconomic stuff but inflation has macroeconomic stuff but inflation has macroeconomic stuff but inflation has started to come down significantly the started to come down significantly the started to come down significantly the stock market's quite steady you these stock market's quite steady you these stock market's quite steady you these sort of things I think looking sort of things I think looking sort of things I think looking historically it's a pretty okay historically it's a pretty okay historically it's a pretty okay environment for Joe Biden with the environment for Joe Biden with the environment for Joe Biden with the exception that he was already the oldest exception that he was already the oldest exception that he was already the oldest president to be inaugurated in 2021 and president to be inaugurated in 2021 and president to be inaugurated in 2021 and would beat his own record in January of would beat his own record in January of would beat his own record in January of 2025 and I just don't know how voters 2025 and I just don't know how voters 2025 and I just don't know how voters are going to see that so in terms of are going to see that so in terms of are going to see that so in terms of just a public human being uh how would just a public human being uh how would just a public human being uh how would you compare Trump and Biden so if I were you compare Trump and Biden so if I were you compare Trump and Biden so if I were to give criticism towards trump it would to give criticism towards trump it would to give criticism towards trump it would be that he's be that he's be that he's chaotic maybe to the point of being chaotic maybe to the point of being chaotic maybe to the point of being disrespectful to a lot of different disrespectful to a lot of different disrespectful to a lot of different groups to a lot of different ideas to a groups to a lot of different ideas to a groups to a lot of different ideas to a lot of different nations and leaders and lot of different nations and leaders and lot of different nations and leaders and all that kind of stuff and then the all that kind of stuff and then the all that kind of stuff and then the criticism towards Biden would be that he criticism towards Biden would be that he criticism towards Biden would be that he maybe perhaps because of age or any maybe perhaps because of age or any maybe perhaps because of age or any other kind of cognitive capabilities is other kind of cognitive capabilities is other kind of cognitive capabilities is not really there mentally as uh you know not really there mentally as uh you know not really there mentally as uh you know in the way that perhaps you could say in the way that perhaps you could say in the way that perhaps you could say like Barack Obama was there just like Barack Obama was there just like Barack Obama was there just mentally being able to handle all kinds mentally being able to handle all kinds mentally being able to handle all kinds of aspects of being a public of aspects of being a public of aspects of being a public representative of a Nation to the world representative of a Nation to the world representative of a Nation to the world and to the people of that Nation so and to the people of that Nation so and to the people of that Nation so which uh in the competition of which uh in the competition of which uh in the competition of Personality flaws which do you think is Personality flaws which do you think is Personality flaws which do you think is more powerful you've laid out fair and I

more powerful you've laid out fair and I more powerful you've laid out fair and I believe accurate assessments of elements believe accurate assessments of elements believe accurate assessments of elements of both of those uh men yeah you haven't of both of those uh men yeah you haven't of both of those uh men yeah you haven't weighed in on to what degree you value weighed in on to what degree you value weighed in on to what degree you value each of those assessments which is where each of those assessments which is where each of those assessments which is where I think the the kind of meat of this I think the the kind of meat of this I think the the kind of meat of this question really is um I don't see and I question really is um I don't see and I question really is um I don't see and I know that you know Biden's going to get know that you know Biden's going to get know that you know Biden's going to get us into World War II World War III us into World War II World War III us into World War II World War III doesn't seem to be happening um I don't doesn't seem to be happening um I don't doesn't seem to be happening um I don't see the Biden deficit you listed which I see the Biden deficit you listed which I see the Biden deficit you listed which I agree with you on I don't see them as um agree with you on I don't see them as um agree with you on I don't see them as um dangerous or threatening to the standing dangerous or threatening to the standing dangerous or threatening to the standing of the United States in this kind of of the United States in this kind of of the United States in this kind of environment with our Western traditional environment with our Western traditional environment with our Western traditional Western allies and Geo politics Etc in Western allies and Geo politics Etc in Western allies and Geo politics Etc in the way that the sort of unhinged the way that the sort of unhinged the way that the sort of unhinged personality of trump combined with his personality of trump combined with his personality of trump combined with his lack of knowledge about most issues is a lack of knowledge about most issues is a lack of knowledge about most issues is a threat so for me if those two are the threat so for me if those two are the threat so for me if those two are the candidates Biden would be my choice now candidates Biden would be my choice now candidates Biden would be my choice now are there people I would rather see on are there people I would rather see on are there people I would rather see on the Democratic side yes if I knew the the Democratic side yes if I knew the the Democratic side yes if I knew the president would be a republican can I president would be a republican can I president would be a republican can I think of better options than Trump think of better options than Trump think of better options than Trump absolutely you know I it's it's so funny absolutely you know I it's it's so funny absolutely you know I it's it's so funny when in 2012 it was Obama versus Romney when in 2012 it was Obama versus Romney when in 2012 it was Obama versus Romney the difference seemed so significant the difference seemed so significant the difference seemed so significant between them thinking back I'm sure I between them thinking back I'm sure I between them thinking back I'm sure I would disagree with Mitt Romney about would disagree with Mitt Romney about would disagree with Mitt Romney about tax rates and his views on LGBT are I'm tax rates and his views on LGBT are I'm tax rates and his views on LGBT are I'm sure I I know are different than mine sure I I know are different than mine sure I I know are different than mine but it seems without looking at him with but it seems without looking at him with but it seems without looking at him with rosecolor glasses so comparatively

rosecolor glasses so comparatively rosecolor glasses so comparatively benign given the the four years of trump benign given the the four years of trump benign given the the four years of trump so that's kind of where I come down even so that's kind of where I come down even so that's kind of where I come down even uh McCain and Obama the the the uh McCain and Obama the the the uh McCain and Obama the the the differences seemed quite drastic yeah differences seemed quite drastic yeah differences seemed quite drastic yeah McCain was interesting because Palin as McCain was interesting because Palin as McCain was interesting because Palin as his running mate opened the door to the his running mate opened the door to the his running mate opened the door to the sort of cartoonish stuff that we've sort of cartoonish stuff that we've sort of cartoonish stuff that we've started to see on the Republican side started to see on the Republican side started to see on the Republican side Palin Trump marjerie Taylor green it Palin Trump marjerie Taylor green it Palin Trump marjerie Taylor green it started going in that direction which started going in that direction which started going in that direction which has made the party a bit of a joke aside has made the party a bit of a joke aside has made the party a bit of a joke aside from what you believe the tax rate would from what you believe the tax rate would from what you believe the tax rate would be right you can say taxes are too high be right you can say taxes are too high be right you can say taxes are too high but Jewish space lasers come on you know but Jewish space lasers come on you know but Jewish space lasers come on you know so uh but but I I agree with you on so uh but but I I agree with you on so uh but but I I agree with you on McCain also so going back to the McCain also so going back to the McCain also so going back to the political terms we talked about what political terms we talked about what political terms we talked about what where in that Spectrum do you place where in that Spectrum do you place where in that Spectrum do you place yourself today um what which of the yourself today um what which of the yourself today um what which of the label do you think captures your label do you think captures your label do you think captures your political views Progressive Social political views Progressive Social political views Progressive Social Democrat um which which again is a Democrat um which which again is a Democrat um which which again is a capitalist I own my own business I pay capitalist I own my own business I pay capitalist I own my own business I pay the taxes I'm legal Al required to pay the taxes I'm legal Al required to pay the taxes I'm legal Al required to pay and not a penny more and you know all and not a penny more and you know all and not a penny more and you know all all those things that's where I place all those things that's where I place all those things that's where I place myself would you place yourself to the myself would you place yourself to the myself would you place yourself to the left of Joe Biden for left of Joe Biden for left of Joe Biden for yes where does AOC fit into yes where does AOC fit into yes where does AOC fit into that it's a good question what do you that it's a good question what do you that it's a good question what do you think about aocc as a candidate do you think about aocc as a candidate do you think about aocc as a candidate do you think she eventually runs I think that think she eventually runs I think that think she eventually runs I think that if she doesn't run into some kind of if she doesn't run into some kind of if she doesn't run into some kind of Scandal and I don't mean scandal in the Scandal and I don't mean scandal in the Scandal and I don't mean scandal in the sense of some personal impropriety sense of some personal impropriety sense of some personal impropriety that you know but I mean some kind of

that you know but I mean some kind of that you know but I mean some kind of major political problem it seems that major political problem it seems that major political problem it seems that she has the staying power to be an she has the staying power to be an she has the staying power to be an American elected politics for a long American elected politics for a long American elected politics for a long time whether she would even want to be time whether she would even want to be time whether she would even want to be president versus maybe going to the president versus maybe going to the president versus maybe going to the senate or being Governor whatever the senate or being Governor whatever the senate or being Governor whatever the case may be I have no idea what her case may be I have no idea what her case may be I have no idea what her Ambitions are in that sense but Ambitions are in that sense but Ambitions are in that sense but certainly like policy aside she has this certainly like policy aside she has this certainly like policy aside she has this combination of combination of combination of charisma likeability to some but also charisma likeability to some but also charisma likeability to some but also something about her personality that something about her personality that something about her personality that angers the people who don't like her in angers the people who don't like her in angers the people who don't like her in a way that only fuels her sort of uh a way that only fuels her sort of uh a way that only fuels her sort of uh presence uh which I think applies to presence uh which I think applies to presence uh which I think applies to Trump as well um that I do think that Trump as well um that I do think that Trump as well um that I do think that she has the potential to be to have she has the potential to be to have she has the potential to be to have significant staying power in American significant staying power in American significant staying power in American politics president I don't know do you politics president I don't know do you politics president I don't know do you think that's the future of of uh think that's the future of of uh think that's the future of of uh political elections and politics in political elections and politics in political elections and politics in general is people who are able to general is people who are able to general is people who are able to skillfully piss off the other side like skillfully piss off the other side like skillfully piss off the other side like a and Trump did I think it's it's an a and Trump did I think it's it's an a and Trump did I think it's it's an aspect of it I think it's also aspect of it I think it's also aspect of it I think it's also understanding how to communicate policy understanding how to communicate policy understanding how to communicate policy ideas Trump you know I have things I can ideas Trump you know I have things I can ideas Trump you know I have things I can praise Trump about if we want to get to praise Trump about if we want to get to praise Trump about if we want to get to that segment at some point you you let that segment at some point you you let that segment at some point you you let me know when that is but I I I do think me know when that is but I I I do think me know when that is but I I I do think that there are some things Trump is very that there are some things Trump is very that there are some things Trump is very good at and this is why it's very hard good at and this is why it's very hard good at and this is why it's very hard for me to believe that Ronda santis has for me to believe that Ronda santis has for me to believe that Ronda santis has what it takes to actually fight Trump in what it takes to actually fight Trump in what it takes to actually fight Trump in a national primary and um one of those a national primary and um one of those a national primary and um one of those things is Trump has a even though often things is Trump has a even though often things is Trump has a even though often says very strange things that if you says very strange things that if you says very strange things that if you transcribe them you go that's what transcribe them you go that's what transcribe them you go that's what language is that that doesn't make any

language is that that doesn't make any language is that that doesn't make any sense whatsoever in the moment the way sense whatsoever in the moment the way sense whatsoever in the moment the way he relates to um adversaries on stage he relates to um adversaries on stage he relates to um adversaries on stage Etc is very good in that he is very much Etc is very good in that he is very much Etc is very good in that he is very much aware of how it is going to be seen by aware of how it is going to be seen by aware of how it is going to be seen by the audience and so that's why a lot of the audience and so that's why a lot of the audience and so that's why a lot of times it's more about doesn't matter times it's more about doesn't matter times it's more about doesn't matter that a word salad came out of his mouth that a word salad came out of his mouth that a word salad came out of his mouth how he immediately responded and related how he immediately responded and related how he immediately responded and related to the person who very good so I think to the person who very good so I think to the person who very good so I think that knowing how to be good when Clips that knowing how to be good when Clips that knowing how to be good when Clips are shared all the time often out of are shared all the time often out of are shared all the time often out of context is extraordinarily important context is extraordinarily important context is extraordinarily important knowing how to use social media which knowing how to use social media which knowing how to use social media which every election cycle that means every election cycle that means every election cycle that means something different but understanding something different but understanding something different but understanding how to use social media very important how to use social media very important how to use social media very important those things are those things are those things are absolutely so important and whether absolutely so important and whether absolutely so important and whether you're able to do a deep dive on the you're able to do a deep dive on the you're able to do a deep dive on the deficit it's certainly useful but I deficit it's certainly useful but I deficit it's certainly useful but I would say it's a bad thing it's becoming would say it's a bad thing it's becoming would say it's a bad thing it's becoming less important in terms of figuring out less important in terms of figuring out less important in terms of figuring out who we want to represent us so just who we want to represent us so just who we want to represent us so just lingering on the aocc and then maybe lingering on the aocc and then maybe lingering on the aocc and then maybe let's throwing in Bernie Sanders on that let's throwing in Bernie Sanders on that let's throwing in Bernie Sanders on that yeah so where do you place yourself and yeah so where do you place yourself and yeah so where do you place yourself and how do you do the layout of the land of how do you do the layout of the land of how do you do the layout of the land of Bernie Sanders AOC Joe Biden and uh Bernie Sanders AOC Joe Biden and uh Bernie Sanders AOC Joe Biden and uh David Pacman my instinct is and the the David Pacman my instinct is and the the David Pacman my instinct is and the the I'm going to answer it the thing that I'm going to answer it the thing that I'm going to answer it the thing that makes this tough is Bernie says I'm he's makes this tough is Bernie says I'm he's makes this tough is Bernie says I'm he's a Democratic Socialist he ran as a a Democratic Socialist he ran as a a Democratic Socialist he ran as a Social Democrat he didn't run on Social Democrat he didn't run on Social Democrat he didn't run on anything that was really socialism right anything that was really socialism right anything that was really socialism right so I'm going by their public facing so I'm going by their public facing so I'm going by their public facing platforms I've been listening to him for platforms I've been listening to him for platforms I've been listening to him for many many years and all all the way back

many many years and all all the way back many many years and all all the way back to the Tom Hartman show and I think to the Tom Hartman show and I think to the Tom Hartman show and I think using the terms as you've been using using the terms as you've been using using the terms as you've been using them yeah he has I don't think ever been them yeah he has I don't think ever been them yeah he has I don't think ever been a Democratic Socialist I haven't heard a Democratic Socialist I haven't heard a Democratic Socialist I haven't heard him speak about him speak about him speak about socialism I I think he I've heard him socialism I I think he I've heard him socialism I I think he I've heard him speak about social programs and the speak about social programs and the speak about social programs and the value of social programs throughout the value of social programs throughout the value of social programs throughout the history of the United States and their history of the United States and their history of the United States and their and how they've been benefit and how they've been benefit and how they've been benefit my understanding is very similar to my understanding is very similar to my understanding is very similar to yours although there may be stuff from yours although there may be stuff from yours although there may be stuff from the 70s where he really was talking shit the 70s where he really was talking shit the 70s where he really was talking shit in the 70s yeah yeah you and I even who in the 70s yeah yeah you and I even who in the 70s yeah yeah you and I even who weren't around we were doing stuff in weren't around we were doing stuff in weren't around we were doing stuff in the 70s I feel like we did yeah my sense the 70s I feel like we did yeah my sense the 70s I feel like we did yeah my sense would be you know Biden is like Center would be you know Biden is like Center would be you know Biden is like Center left and then I'm to the left of that left and then I'm to the left of that left and then I'm to the left of that but maybe just inside of where AOC and but maybe just inside of where AOC and but maybe just inside of where AOC and Bernie are very very similar to Bernie I Bernie are very very similar to Bernie I Bernie are very very similar to Bernie I mean I I identify with a lot of Bernie's mean I I identify with a lot of Bernie's mean I I identify with a lot of Bernie's ideas maybe their implementation I'm ideas maybe their implementation I'm ideas maybe their implementation I'm more flexible on I'll give you one more flexible on I'll give you one more flexible on I'll give you one example Medicare for all one way of example Medicare for all one way of example Medicare for all one way of trying to get health care to everybody trying to get health care to everybody trying to get health care to everybody which Bernie's very big on is you take which Bernie's very big on is you take which Bernie's very big on is you take the current Medicare program you just the current Medicare program you just the current Medicare program you just eliminate the age limit make it eliminate the age limit make it eliminate the age limit make it available to everybody pay for it available to everybody pay for it available to everybody pay for it through taxation interesting however I'm through taxation interesting however I'm through taxation interesting however I'm open to other models if they get open to other models if they get open to other models if they get everybody healthare that is good quality everybody healthare that is good quality everybody healthare that is good quality and affordable Singapore has an and affordable Singapore has an and affordable Singapore has an interesting model Germany has an interesting model Germany has an interesting model Germany has an interesting model I am I am more interesting model I am I am more interesting model I am I am more agnostic about how we do it than just agnostic about how we do it than just agnostic about how we do it than just saying let's expand Medicare whether saying let's expand Medicare whether saying let's expand Medicare whether that puts me to the right of of Bernie I

that puts me to the right of of Bernie I that puts me to the right of of Bernie I don't I don't know but I'm not like don't I don't know but I'm not like don't I don't know but I'm not like exactly right there on it has to be exactly right there on it has to be exactly right there on it has to be Medicare for all yeah that's more of a Medicare for all yeah that's more of a Medicare for all yeah that's more of a that's more just flexibility versus that's more just flexibility versus that's more just flexibility versus dogmatism so I don't know if that puts dogmatism so I don't know if that puts dogmatism so I don't know if that puts you to the left or to the right I don't you to the left or to the right I don't you to the left or to the right I don't either what do you think about the we either what do you think about the we either what do you think about the we could term manipulation or the could term manipulation or the could term manipulation or the corruption in the DNC that perhaps corruption in the DNC that perhaps corruption in the DNC that perhaps tipped the scales against Bernie in the tipped the scales against Bernie in the tipped the scales against Bernie in the election do you think there was 2016 or 2020 uh both I would say uh in different 2020 uh both I would say uh in different the Dynamics there were different with the Dynamics there were different with the Dynamics there were different with Hillary Clinton and um like the pressure Hillary Clinton and um like the pressure Hillary Clinton and um like the pressure from Hillary Clinton as a candidate and from Hillary Clinton as a candidate and from Hillary Clinton as a candidate and so on yeah what I mean was there why so on yeah what I mean was there why so on yeah what I mean was there why didn't Bernie win I guess is one one didn't Bernie win I guess is one one didn't Bernie win I guess is one one would ask okay I think there's a couple would ask okay I think there's a couple would ask okay I think there's a couple things here first the DNC I'm not a things here first the DNC I'm not a things here first the DNC I'm not a Democrat just your audience May not no Democrat just your audience May not no Democrat just your audience May not no I'm just a independent yeah I mostly I'm just a independent yeah I mostly I'm just a independent yeah I mostly vote for candidates that end up being vote for candidates that end up being vote for candidates that end up being Democrats in local elections often Democrats in local elections often Democrats in local elections often there's no party designation so okay I'm there's no party designation so okay I'm there's no party designation so okay I'm obviously on the left I'm not denying obviously on the left I'm not denying obviously on the left I'm not denying that but the Democratic party as as an that but the Democratic party as as an that but the Democratic party as as an institution has never really been institution has never really been institution has never really been interesting to me you're still a rebel interesting to me you're still a rebel interesting to me you're still a rebel that resists belonging to any that resists belonging to any that resists belonging to any institution exactly right exactly right institution exactly right exactly right institution exactly right exactly right and whether it matters I I don't know um and whether it matters I I don't know um and whether it matters I I don't know um the DNC and the RNC really are the DNC and the RNC really are the DNC and the RNC really are organizations that to some degree exist organizations that to some degree exist organizations that to some degree exist to justify their own existence because to justify their own existence because to justify their own existence because if they were no longer necessary um they if they were no longer necessary um they if they were no longer necessary um they would go away and so they have to assert

would go away and so they have to assert would go away and so they have to assert their value and their importance they do their value and their importance they do their value and their importance they do this in a number of different ways this in a number of different ways this in a number of different ways organizing the way that the dominee is organizing the way that the dominee is organizing the way that the dominee is chosen the convention uh working with chosen the convention uh working with chosen the convention uh working with States on everything from redistricting States on everything from redistricting States on everything from redistricting to whatever else the case may be setting to whatever else the case may be setting to whatever else the case may be setting the order of primaries and having some the order of primaries and having some the order of primaries and having some involvement in how that's all going to involvement in how that's all going to involvement in how that's all going to happen and also coordinating behind the happen and also coordinating behind the happen and also coordinating behind the scenes uh I guess they would describe it scenes uh I guess they would describe it scenes uh I guess they would describe it as making sure our candidates don't get as making sure our candidates don't get as making sure our candidates don't get in each other's ways we might see it and in each other's ways we might see it and in each other's ways we might see it and say they're picking MH the the winner say they're picking MH the the winner say they're picking MH the the winner there's nothing illegal about them being there's nothing illegal about them being there's nothing illegal about them being involved in picking the winner but we involved in picking the winner but we involved in picking the winner but we might say it's not in people's interests might say it's not in people's interests might say it's not in people's interests I think the 2020 primary was really I think the 2020 primary was really I think the 2020 primary was really interesting Bernie supporter interesting Bernie supporter interesting Bernie supporter myself I started telling my audience myself I started telling my audience myself I started telling my audience after a couple primaries and even before after a couple primaries and even before after a couple primaries and even before based on polling and different things I based on polling and different things I based on polling and different things I see a real uphill battle here for see a real uphill battle here for see a real uphill battle here for Bernie and it's really important people Bernie and it's really important people Bernie and it's really important people in my audience are not the average you in my audience are not the average you in my audience are not the average you know union worker in Michigan who is know union worker in Michigan who is know union worker in Michigan who is mostly working and raising a family and mostly working and raising a family and mostly working and raising a family and then goes to vote on primary day and then goes to vote on primary day and then goes to vote on primary day and goes to vote on Election Day if you goes to vote on Election Day if you goes to vote on Election Day if you spend a lot of time on Reddit and spend a lot of time on Reddit and spend a lot of time on Reddit and Twitter you're going to have an inflated Twitter you're going to have an inflated Twitter you're going to have an inflated sense of Bernie's popularity within the sense of Bernie's popularity within the sense of Bernie's popularity within the Democratic party that was my sense and Democratic party that was my sense and Democratic party that was my sense and to some degree we saw that in certain to some degree we saw that in certain to some degree we saw that in certain States I don't have the exact primary States I don't have the exact primary States I don't have the exact primary order and results in front of me or in order and results in front of me or in order and results in front of me or in my head but the big turning point was my head but the big turning point was my head but the big turning point was South Carolina South Carolina was when

South Carolina South Carolina was when South Carolina South Carolina was when Joe Biden one and one handly understood Joe Biden one and one handly understood Joe Biden one and one handly understood to be because of the larger to be because of the larger to be because of the larger African-American population in South African-American population in South African-American population in South Carolina and right around that exact Carolina and right around that exact Carolina and right around that exact same time I actually don't remember now same time I actually don't remember now same time I actually don't remember now whether it was the day after or the day whether it was the day after or the day whether it was the day after or the day before some of the smaller Democratic before some of the smaller Democratic before some of the smaller Democratic candidate smaller in terms of support candidate smaller in terms of support candidate smaller in terms of support got out and said I'm endorsing Joe Biden got out and said I'm endorsing Joe Biden got out and said I'm endorsing Joe Biden and and and to some degree of course it was all to some degree of course it was all to some degree of course it was all organized and timed to help Joe Biden organized and timed to help Joe Biden organized and timed to help Joe Biden there's no doubt about that this is what there's no doubt about that this is what there's no doubt about that this is what the DNC does it's hard for me to be mad the DNC does it's hard for me to be mad the DNC does it's hard for me to be mad at the DNC because this is sort of like at the DNC because this is sort of like at the DNC because this is sort of like if if we believed they were there to be if if we believed they were there to be if if we believed they were there to be unbiased Arbiters and to stay as much on unbiased Arbiters and to stay as much on unbiased Arbiters and to stay as much on the side as possible it would make sense the side as possible it would make sense the side as possible it would make sense to be furious that they've gone against to be furious that they've gone against to be furious that they've gone against their stated you know kind kind of their stated you know kind kind of their stated you know kind kind of mandate but we know that the mandate but we know that the mandate but we know that the DNC negotiates and is working behind the DNC negotiates and is working behind the DNC negotiates and is working behind the scenes and has a favorite that favorite scenes and has a favorite that favorite scenes and has a favorite that favorite was Hillary in 2016 2020 so I share the was Hillary in 2016 2020 so I share the was Hillary in 2016 2020 so I share the frustration about the power that the DNC frustration about the power that the DNC frustration about the power that the DNC has but for people who were saying they has but for people who were saying they has but for people who were saying they did something illegal or whatever else did something illegal or whatever else did something illegal or whatever else the case may be that that doesn't seem the case may be that that doesn't seem the case may be that that doesn't seem to be the case but this is part of why I to be the case but this is part of why I to be the case but this is part of why I mean I would love there not to be this mean I would love there not to be this mean I would love there not to be this duopoly of Republicans and Democrats and duopoly of Republicans and Democrats and duopoly of Republicans and Democrats and there's probably four major changes that there's probably four major changes that there's probably four major changes that have to happen in order to make that a have to happen in order to make that a have to happen in order to make that a reality but I share the frustration of reality but I share the frustration of reality but I share the frustration of of folks while recognizing of folks while recognizing of folks while recognizing that Reddit was not accurately that Reddit was not accurately that Reddit was not accurately representing Bernie's level of representing Bernie's level of representing Bernie's level of popularity still I wish that the bias popularity still I wish that the bias popularity still I wish that the bias wasn't towards the uh what could be

wasn't towards the uh what could be wasn't towards the uh what could be negatively termed the Deep State towards negatively termed the Deep State towards negatively termed the Deep State towards the bureaucracy towards the momentum of the bureaucracy towards the momentum of the bureaucracy towards the momentum of the past which I think Joe Biden kind of the past which I think Joe Biden kind of the past which I think Joe Biden kind of represents uh versus new ideas which is represents uh versus new ideas which is represents uh versus new ideas which is funny to say that Bernie Sanders somehow funny to say that Bernie Sanders somehow funny to say that Bernie Sanders somehow represents new ideas because he's also represents new ideas because he's also represents new ideas because he's also an older gentleman well it's frame it's an older gentleman well it's frame it's an older gentleman well it's frame it's a lot of Framing and the other aspect to a lot of Framing and the other aspect to a lot of Framing and the other aspect to that is on paper Joe Biden's platform that is on paper Joe Biden's platform that is on paper Joe Biden's platform was arguably the most Progressive of any was arguably the most Progressive of any was arguably the most Progressive of any Democratic candidate who won the Democratic candidate who won the Democratic candidate who won the nomination now of course there were nomination now of course there were nomination now of course there were people who challenged the nominations people who challenged the nominations people who challenged the nominations who were to Joe Biden's left a lot of who were to Joe Biden's left a lot of who were to Joe Biden's left a lot of this is perspective and it you know this is perspective and it you know this is perspective and it you know that's how you end up saying the guy that's how you end up saying the guy that's how you end up saying the guy who's a couple years older than Biden is who's a couple years older than Biden is who's a couple years older than Biden is actually the guy with the fresh actually the guy with the fresh actually the guy with the fresh perspective which is interesting because perspective which is interesting because perspective which is interesting because I don't disagree with you yeah and you I don't disagree with you yeah and you I don't disagree with you yeah and you also have to say the perspective doesn't also have to say the perspective doesn't also have to say the perspective doesn't always align with the policy policies always align with the policy policies always align with the policy policies you're right and you know the actual you're right and you know the actual you're right and you know the actual policies of Joe Biden are different than policies of Joe Biden are different than policies of Joe Biden are different than the maybe the perception of Joe Biden or the maybe the perception of Joe Biden or the maybe the perception of Joe Biden or what he ran on I mean just two examples what he ran on I mean just two examples what he ran on I mean just two examples I would give are during his campaign he I would give are during his campaign he I would give are during his campaign he played up a little bit his interest in played up a little bit his interest in played up a little bit his interest in doing student loan forgiveness and doing student loan forgiveness and doing student loan forgiveness and something on cannabis I never bought it something on cannabis I never bought it something on cannabis I never bought it I told my audience I think he's saying I told my audience I think he's saying I told my audience I think he's saying this stuff because this is the way the this stuff because this is the way the this stuff because this is the way the tide is kind of the wind is blowing and tide is kind of the wind is blowing and tide is kind of the wind is blowing and he's being advised to say this stuff I he's being advised to say this stuff I he's being advised to say this stuff I don't think he's going to do very much don't think he's going to do very much don't think he's going to do very much on either of these things he did on either of these things he did on either of these things he did actually do some student loan stuff but actually do some student loan stuff but actually do some student loan stuff but that would be two examples I think okay that would be two examples I think okay that would be two examples I think okay let's go to the uh something you alluded let's go to the uh something you alluded let's go to the uh something you alluded to which is the pros and cons of a

to which is the pros and cons of a to which is the pros and cons of a particular candidate well what do you as particular candidate well what do you as particular candidate well what do you as a Critic of trump what do you are um the a Critic of trump what do you are um the a Critic of trump what do you are um the pros the strengths of uh Donald Trump pros the strengths of uh Donald Trump pros the strengths of uh Donald Trump and what you are his biggest weaknesses and what you are his biggest weaknesses and what you are his biggest weaknesses the strengths of trump see how I can the strengths of trump see how I can the strengths of trump see how I can frame though in a way that is both frame though in a way that is both frame though in a way that is both accurate and and accurate and and accurate and and accurately assesses my my feeling about accurately assesses my my feeling about accurately assesses my my feeling about it and can be taken out of context most it and can be taken out of context most it and can be taken out of context most M masterfully through the clipping M masterfully through the clipping M masterfully through the clipping process yes Trump's strengths are mostly process yes Trump's strengths are mostly process yes Trump's strengths are mostly superficial and in terms of superficial and in terms of superficial and in terms of presentation Trump was able to I I call presentation Trump was able to I I call presentation Trump was able to I I call it a grift some on the right say he's it a grift some on the right say he's it a grift some on the right say he's just so good at relating to different just so good at relating to different just so good at relating to different types of people Trump as a rich guy from types of people Trump as a rich guy from types of people Trump as a rich guy from New York City was able to convince New York City was able to convince New York City was able to convince people that he spent most of his life people that he spent most of his life people that he spent most of his life trying to be kept isolated from that he trying to be kept isolated from that he trying to be kept isolated from that he had their best interests in mind that he had their best interests in mind that he had their best interests in mind that he knew why they weren't doing well in the knew why they weren't doing well in the knew why they weren't doing well in the 2016 economy and that he had solutions 2016 economy and that he had solutions 2016 economy and that he had solutions that he was going to bring forward the that he was going to bring forward the that he was going to bring forward the truth is he never really liked those truth is he never really liked those truth is he never really liked those people and as soon as they weren't people and as soon as they weren't people and as soon as they weren't useful to him for a brief period of time useful to him for a brief period of time useful to him for a brief period of time he you know that that love affair with he you know that that love affair with he you know that that love affair with his followers stopped and then now it's his followers stopped and then now it's his followers stopped and then now it's back that he needs them again he didn't back that he needs them again he didn't back that he needs them again he didn't really understand the causes of the really understand the causes of the really understand the causes of the problems that those folks were problems that those folks were problems that those folks were experiencing and his Solutions were experiencing and his Solutions were experiencing and his Solutions were laughable right like Jared was going to laughable right like Jared was going to laughable right like Jared was going to solve the Israeli Palestinian conflict solve the Israeli Palestinian conflict solve the Israeli Palestinian conflict in year one he was going to replace

in year one he was going to replace in year one he was going to replace Obamacare in 2017 things that were never Obamacare in 2017 things that were never Obamacare in 2017 things that were never going anywhere anywhere um but what he going anywhere anywhere um but what he going anywhere anywhere um but what he did really well was he put up a united did really well was he put up a united did really well was he put up a united front of I know what is ailing you I front of I know what is ailing you I front of I know what is ailing you I know how to fix it and I know how to fix know how to fix it and I know how to fix know how to fix it and I know how to fix it I guess because he's a businessman it I guess because he's a businessman it I guess because he's a businessman and he's been Above The Fray of politics and he's been Above The Fray of politics and he's been Above The Fray of politics for so long knowing how to use political for so long knowing how to use political for so long knowing how to use political donations to his Advantage he called donations to his Advantage he called donations to his Advantage he called that smart Etc I think that's his that smart Etc I think that's his that smart Etc I think that's his greatest strength why do he say that the greatest strength why do he say that the greatest strength why do he say that the the the the Jared plan for Israel and the the the Jared plan for Israel and the the the Jared plan for Israel and Palestine and the plan for healthcare to Palestine and the plan for healthcare to Palestine and the plan for healthcare to improve Obamacare why why do you say improve Obamacare why why do you say improve Obamacare why why do you say that's laughable well only someone I that's laughable well only someone I that's laughable well only someone I would include the North Korea plan as would include the North Korea plan as would include the North Korea plan as well which I'm glad to talk about only well which I'm glad to talk about only well which I'm glad to talk about only someone who doesn't know anything about someone who doesn't know anything about someone who doesn't know anything about the size and scope of these issues could the size and scope of these issues could the size and scope of these issues could so arrogantly say that they could solve so arrogantly say that they could solve so arrogantly say that they could solve them in that way and on that time frame them in that way and on that time frame them in that way and on that time frame I'm all for optimism and and bringing a I'm all for optimism and and bringing a I'm all for optimism and and bringing a new face to things absolutely without a new face to things absolutely without a new face to things absolutely without a doubt but you know a wall with Mexico doubt but you know a wall with Mexico doubt but you know a wall with Mexico that Mexico will pay for at the end of that Mexico will pay for at the end of that Mexico will pay for at the end of my first my first my first term I I know there were people who term I I know there were people who term I I know there were people who believed it because they would call into believed it because they would call into believed it because they would call into my show and say I'm voting for Trump my show and say I'm voting for Trump my show and say I'm voting for Trump because of it but it's hard to believe because of it but it's hard to believe because of it but it's hard to believe that anybody serious would fall for that that anybody serious would fall for that that anybody serious would fall for that unless were deliberately wanting to just unless were deliberately wanting to just unless were deliberately wanting to just believe whatever was being fed to you or believe whatever was being fed to you or believe whatever was being fed to you or you just hadn't ever thought about these you just hadn't ever thought about these you just hadn't ever thought about these issues before the health care plan you issues before the health care plan you issues before the health care plan you know in 2017 they proposed one would

know in 2017 they proposed one would know in 2017 they proposed one would have led to 24 million or so people have led to 24 million or so people have led to 24 million or so people ending up without Healthcare didn't go ending up without Healthcare didn't go ending up without Healthcare didn't go anywhere because it was so terrible and anywhere because it was so terrible and anywhere because it was so terrible and then in August of 2020 Trump said in in then in August of 2020 Trump said in in then in August of 2020 Trump said in in two weeks I'm going to finally have my two weeks I'm going to finally have my two weeks I'm going to finally have my health care proposal it's 2023 we we health care proposal it's 2023 we we health care proposal it's 2023 we we still never got it you know with all of still never got it you know with all of still never got it you know with all of these things when you think them through these things when you think them through these things when you think them through it was just sort of arrogance and I get it was just sort of arrogance and I get it was just sort of arrogance and I get the perspective of I want optimism and I the perspective of I want optimism and I the perspective of I want optimism and I liked that optimism it worked I mean liked that optimism it worked I mean liked that optimism it worked I mean Fair a lot of people saw it and liked it Fair a lot of people saw it and liked it Fair a lot of people saw it and liked it as someone who followed a lot of those as someone who followed a lot of those as someone who followed a lot of those those issues closely they seemed of those issues closely they seemed of those issues closely they seemed of course like impossible promises well course like impossible promises well course like impossible promises well it's a double-edged sword so to push it's a double-edged sword so to push it's a double-edged sword so to push back a little bit if we look at the back a little bit if we look at the back a little bit if we look at the things I have um a little bit more things I have um a little bit more things I have um a little bit more knowledge about which is the space of knowledge about which is the space of knowledge about which is the space of artificial artificial artificial intelligence there's a company called intelligence there's a company called intelligence there's a company called Deep Mind and there's a company called Deep Mind and there's a company called Deep Mind and there's a company called open AI that were laughed at for a long open AI that were laughed at for a long open AI that were laughed at for a long time when they were talking about that time when they were talking about that time when they were talking about that they're going to solve intelligence and they're going to solve intelligence and they're going to solve intelligence and now they've made um especially Deep Mind now they've made um especially Deep Mind now they've made um especially Deep Mind and our most recently open AI with GPT and our most recently open AI with GPT and our most recently open AI with GPT they've made progress that most of the they've made progress that most of the they've made progress that most of the community would not have imagined to be community would not have imagined to be community would not have imagined to be able to make everything from alpha go able to make everything from alpha go able to make everything from alpha go beating the world CH uh world go beating the world CH uh world go beating the world CH uh world go Champion just all the different steps Champion just all the different steps Champion just all the different steps and progress I can get into were and progress I can get into were and progress I can get into were surprised everybody and they are surprised everybody and they are surprised everybody and they are legitimately uh fearlessly pursuing uh the task of uh fearlessly pursuing uh the task of solving intelligence the other aspect he solving intelligence the other aspect he solving intelligence the other aspect he gets a lot of criticism now but another gets a lot of criticism now but another gets a lot of criticism now but another example is Elon

example is Elon example is Elon Musk uh in I can say a lot of things Musk uh in I can say a lot of things Musk uh in I can say a lot of things like SpaceX so commercial space flight like SpaceX so commercial space flight like SpaceX so commercial space flight he was laughed at for a long time that he was laughed at for a long time that he was laughed at for a long time that that's possible uh same thing with that's possible uh same thing with that's possible uh same thing with autopilot in Tesla autonomous vehicles autopilot in Tesla autonomous vehicles autopilot in Tesla autonomous vehicles his approach was harshly criticized by his approach was harshly criticized by his approach was harshly criticized by all the experts and and still criticized all the experts and and still criticized all the experts and and still criticized to this day deeply criticized and I as a to this day deeply criticized and I as a to this day deeply criticized and I as a person that I believe objectively can person that I believe objectively can person that I believe objectively can look at the progress of autopilot as a look at the progress of autopilot as a look at the progress of autopilot as a semi-autonomous vehicle system has been semi-autonomous vehicle system has been semi-autonomous vehicle system has been incredibly surprising so the reason I incredibly surprising so the reason I incredibly surprising so the reason I mentioned that is sometimes it feels mentioned that is sometimes it feels mentioned that is sometimes it feels like you need the guy or the gal who's like you need the guy or the gal who's like you need the guy or the gal who's who makes those uh Preposterous who makes those uh Preposterous who makes those uh Preposterous ambitious statements like we're going to ambitious statements like we're going to ambitious statements like we're going to solve Healthcare this year solve Healthcare this year solve Healthcare this year like and then and then there's experts like and then and then there's experts like and then and then there's experts like yourself that are looking thinking like yourself that are looking thinking like yourself that are looking thinking have you read anything about the history have you read anything about the history have you read anything about the history of this Israel Palestine is a good is a of this Israel Palestine is a good is a of this Israel Palestine is a good is a good example of that do you know there's good example of that do you know there's good example of that do you know there's a history there do you realize how a history there do you realize how a history there do you realize how complicated how many people have tried complicated how many people have tried complicated how many people have tried how many people have failed how many how many people have failed how many how many people have failed how many millions of people hate each other in millions of people hate each other in millions of people hate each other in this in this little uh place in this in this in this little uh place in this in this in this little uh place in this in this land like sometimes the expertise this land like sometimes the expertise this land like sometimes the expertise can really weigh you down so sort of to can really weigh you down so sort of to can really weigh you down so sort of to push back sometimes you have to have the push back sometimes you have to have the push back sometimes you have to have the almost be naive and stupid and just rush almost be naive and stupid and just rush almost be naive and stupid and just rush in with an optimism in order to actually in with an optimism in order to actually in with an optimism in order to actually make some progress I agree with you 100% make some progress I agree with you 100% make some progress I agree with you 100% I think it's interesting that all of the

I think it's interesting that all of the I think it's interesting that all of the examples you gave of of successes are examples you gave of of successes are examples you gave of of successes are from the technology space not politics from the technology space not politics from the technology space not politics yes not from politics which I mean yes not from politics which I mean yes not from politics which I mean listen I would love to be able to make listen I would love to be able to make listen I would love to be able to make Headway on some of these issues more Headway on some of these issues more Headway on some of these issues more quickly without a doubt I do think at quickly without a doubt I do think at quickly without a doubt I do think at some point though when it comes down to some point though when it comes down to some point though when it comes down to voting and saying one of these people is voting and saying one of these people is voting and saying one of these people is going to be ostensibly in charge for 4 going to be ostensibly in charge for 4 going to be ostensibly in charge for 4 years through all of the Departments and years through all of the Departments and years through all of the Departments and secretaries and choices that they make secretaries and choices that they make secretaries and choices that they make we do want to apply some level of we do want to apply some level of we do want to apply some level of realism with the with the understanding realism with the with the understanding realism with the with the understanding that your examples are from the tech that your examples are from the tech that your examples are from the tech space and they're good examples there's space and they're good examples there's space and they're good examples there's there's no question about it one th there's no question about it one th there's no question about it one th thing I'll add to this I recently read thing I'll add to this I recently read thing I'll add to this I recently read Bradley Hope's new book about North Bradley Hope's new book about North Bradley Hope's new book about North Korea um and it's really about an Korea um and it's really about an Korea um and it's really about an activist um activist um activist um who it doesn't even really matter but who it doesn't even really matter but who it doesn't even really matter but the in the background of the book it's the in the background of the book it's the in the background of the book it's written much of what is written about written much of what is written about written much of what is written about happens during the Trump era and when happens during the Trump era and when happens during the Trump era and when Trump did the first and then the second Trump did the first and then the second Trump did the first and then the second um I guess you'd call them Summits with um I guess you'd call them Summits with um I guess you'd call them Summits with Kim Jong-un and it actually did seem Kim Jong-un and it actually did seem Kim Jong-un and it actually did seem like to some degree Trump's were going like to some degree Trump's were going like to some degree Trump's were going to handle this like I do a business deal to handle this like I do a business deal to handle this like I do a business deal approach to Kim Jong-un in some sense it approach to Kim Jong-un in some sense it approach to Kim Jong-un in some sense it actually was actually was actually was logical because of Kim Jong-un and the logical because of Kim Jong-un and the logical because of Kim Jong-un and the way that it was so ego driven and they way that it was so ego driven and they way that it was so ego driven and they both as sort of author Arian strong men both as sort of author Arian strong men both as sort of author Arian strong men types to different degrees wanted that types to different degrees wanted that types to different degrees wanted that there was actually a konel where I there was actually a konel where I there was actually a konel where I actually thought as I read it Trump's actually thought as I read it Trump's actually thought as I read it Trump's initial idea wasn't crazy the problem initial idea wasn't crazy the problem initial idea wasn't crazy the problem was he knew nothing about the backstory was he knew nothing about the backstory was he knew nothing about the backstory of the relationship he fell for all of the relationship he fell for all of the relationship he fell for all sorts of lies from Kim Jong-un and he

sorts of lies from Kim Jong-un and he sorts of lies from Kim Jong-un and he made offers that didn't make any sense made offers that didn't make any sense made offers that didn't make any sense to make it fell apart fine but that's an to make it fell apart fine but that's an to make it fell apart fine but that's an example where I think Trump's example where I think Trump's example where I think Trump's personality was not actually at its base personality was not actually at its base personality was not actually at its base the the problem when it came to North the the problem when it came to North the the problem when it came to North Korea well there's other things of this Korea well there's other things of this Korea well there's other things of this nature that could go or some people nature that could go or some people nature that could go or some people argue goes into the strengths and pros argue goes into the strengths and pros argue goes into the strengths and pros of Donald Trump for China for example of Donald Trump for China for example of Donald Trump for China for example Terrace on China can you make the case Terrace on China can you make the case Terrace on China can you make the case that there's some positive outcomes of that there's some positive outcomes of that there's some positive outcomes of the way Donald the way Donald the way Donald Trump acted with China it's really tough Trump acted with China it's really tough Trump acted with China it's really tough and I'll give you a couple Reas okay and I'll give you a couple Reas okay and I'll give you a couple Reas okay then also cons I'll give you it's tough then also cons I'll give you it's tough then also cons I'll give you it's tough to make so the China thing is really so to make so the China thing is really so to make so the China thing is really so just um very recently to when we're just um very recently to when we're just um very recently to when we're recording this Trump was on Fox News recording this Trump was on Fox News recording this Trump was on Fox News interviewed by a guy named Mark Levin interviewed by a guy named Mark Levin interviewed by a guy named Mark Levin and Trump proposed a new I call it a and Trump proposed a new I call it a and Trump proposed a new I call it a conspiracy theory maybe it will strike conspiracy theory maybe it will strike conspiracy theory maybe it will strike you as something different about China you as something different about China you as something different about China covid and tariffs and Trump's suggestion covid and tariffs and Trump's suggestion covid and tariffs and Trump's suggestion was that the tariffs cost China so much was that the tariffs cost China so much was that the tariffs cost China so much money China sent the us so much money money China sent the us so much money money China sent the us so much money and tariffs that they released covid as and tariffs that they released covid as and tariffs that they released covid as punishment now there's a couple problems punishment now there's a couple problems punishment now there's a couple problems with that one American companies pay the with that one American companies pay the with that one American companies pay the tariffs Trump still doesn't seem to know tariffs Trump still doesn't seem to know tariffs Trump still doesn't seem to know this Trump seems to believe that when he this Trump seems to believe that when he this Trump seems to believe that when he puts a tariff on Chinese Imports someone puts a tariff on Chinese Imports someone puts a tariff on Chinese Imports someone in China is cutting a check to the in China is cutting a check to the in China is cutting a check to the United States American companies buy the United States American companies buy the United States American companies buy the stuff from China and then American stuff from China and then American stuff from China and then American companies cut a check to the United companies cut a check to the United companies cut a check to the United States for the States for the States for the Tariff Trump doesn't seem to get that

Tariff Trump doesn't seem to get that Tariff Trump doesn't seem to get that but it still has a sting to the Chinese but it still has a sting to the Chinese but it still has a sting to the Chinese economy you can make the argument that economy you can make the argument that economy you can make the argument that if there is a suitable alternative if there is a suitable alternative if there is a suitable alternative domestically or from a different country domestically or from a different country domestically or from a different country that it will reduce Imports but it that it will reduce Imports but it that it will reduce Imports but it didn't happen and we actually have didn't happen and we actually have didn't happen and we actually have reports now that the tariffs on China reports now that the tariffs on China reports now that the tariffs on China cost about a quarter million American cost about a quarter million American cost about a quarter million American jobs the other problem with that idea is jobs the other problem with that idea is jobs the other problem with that idea is China created and released a virus in China created and released a virus in China created and released a virus in order to hurt you but as of today 5.7 of order to hurt you but as of today 5.7 of order to hurt you but as of today 5.7 of the 6.8 million deaths were in other the 6.8 million deaths were in other the 6.8 million deaths were in other countries it's a very indirect way countries it's a very indirect way countries it's a very indirect way you're mostly killing people in other you're mostly killing people in other you're mostly killing people in other countries to hurt Trump maybe there was countries to hurt Trump maybe there was countries to hurt Trump maybe there was a this is the sort of thing where when I a this is the sort of thing where when I a this is the sort of thing where when I think about how Trump dealt with China think about how Trump dealt with China think about how Trump dealt with China it's very scary because given another it's very scary because given another it's very scary because given another four years who who knows what he might four years who who knows what he might four years who who knows what he might do if he still doesn't understand how do if he still doesn't understand how do if he still doesn't understand how tariffs work so geopolitics tariffs work so geopolitics tariffs work so geopolitics operates in complicated ways with operates in complicated ways with operates in complicated ways with carrots and sticks and Henry kisser has carrots and sticks and Henry kisser has carrots and sticks and Henry kisser has written quite a a lot about this and in written quite a a lot about this and in written quite a a lot about this and in some sense the positive aspect here that some sense the positive aspect here that some sense the positive aspect here that uh Donald Trump is willing to take big uh Donald Trump is willing to take big uh Donald Trump is willing to take big risks in the in the game of geopolitics risks in the in the game of geopolitics risks in the in the game of geopolitics with this uh giant superpower that is with this uh giant superpower that is with this uh giant superpower that is China and a lot of others are too afraid China and a lot of others are too afraid China and a lot of others are too afraid too afraid to call them out to come to too afraid to call them out to come to too afraid to call them out to come to the table and the table and the table and criticize I certainly think that's an criticize I certainly think that's an criticize I certainly think that's an argument that can be made my question

argument that can be made my question argument that can be made my question would be what tangible positive outcomes would be what tangible positive outcomes would be what tangible positive outcomes did it lead to and it's tough to did it lead to and it's tough to did it lead to and it's tough to identify any but I think it's a great identify any but I think it's a great identify any but I think it's a great thing I mean listen one of the things thing I mean listen one of the things thing I mean listen one of the things you're kind of getting at maybe you're kind of getting at maybe you're kind of getting at maybe indirectly is that indirectly is that indirectly is that there's been this sense that politics there's been this sense that politics there's been this sense that politics has been done very similarly for a long has been done very similarly for a long has been done very similarly for a long time and even between Democrats and time and even between Democrats and time and even between Democrats and Republicans still even with some policy Republicans still even with some policy Republicans still even with some policy differences there's still the kind of differences there's still the kind of differences there's still the kind of feeling that it's disconnected folks in feeling that it's disconnected folks in feeling that it's disconnected folks in DC mostly dealing with issues that don't DC mostly dealing with issues that don't DC mostly dealing with issues that don't directly affect I get that I'm with you directly affect I get that I'm with you directly affect I get that I'm with you on that I think the question as to on that I think the question as to on that I think the question as to whether Trump's Bluster was positive whether Trump's Bluster was positive whether Trump's Bluster was positive rather than extraordinarily humiliating rather than extraordinarily humiliating rather than extraordinarily humiliating in many ways I just come down on it was in many ways I just come down on it was in many ways I just come down on it was an absolute and total humiliation but I an absolute and total humiliation but I an absolute and total humiliation but I understand that you can recognize Trump understand that you can recognize Trump understand that you can recognize Trump doesn't know a lot of stuff but his doesn't know a lot of stuff but his doesn't know a lot of stuff but his attitude was refreshing in some way attitude was refreshing in some way attitude was refreshing in some way that's a reasonable position for someone that's a reasonable position for someone that's a reasonable position for someone to take I disagree with it but I to take I disagree with it but I to take I disagree with it but I understand it but is trying and failing understand it but is trying and failing understand it but is trying and failing better than not better than not better than not trying this goes well beyond politics trying this goes well beyond politics trying this goes well beyond politics you know Wayne Gretzky has weighed in you know Wayne Gretzky has weighed in you know Wayne Gretzky has weighed in about this Michael Jordan has weighed in about this Michael Jordan has weighed in about this Michael Jordan has weighed in about I mean this is yeah is it is it about I mean this is yeah is it is it about I mean this is yeah is it is it better to have tried and failed than better to have tried and failed than better to have tried and failed than never is it better to have loved and never is it better to have loved and never is it better to have loved and lost than never to have L I don't know I lost than never to have L I don't know I lost than never to have L I don't know I mean listen we Liv through four years of mean listen we Liv through four years of mean listen we Liv through four years of trump we know what that four-year term trump we know what that four-year term trump we know what that four-year term was like and it's very hard for me to was like and it's very hard for me to was like and it's very hard for me to say that the things he tried were were say that the things he tried were were say that the things he tried were were overwhelmingly reasonable but I get the overwhelmingly reasonable but I get the overwhelmingly reasonable but I get the point you're trying to make and I point you're trying to make and I point you're trying to make and I appreciate it and and it's if we don't appreciate it and and it's if we don't appreciate it and and it's if we don't do any of it then where do we end up

do any of it then where do we end up do any of it then where do we end up sure we know where we ended up with with sure we know where we ended up with with sure we know where we ended up with with Trump and it was pretty Trump and it was pretty Trump and it was pretty embarrassing uh okay let's Linger on embarrassing uh okay let's Linger on embarrassing uh okay let's Linger on some more strengths we didn't start any some more strengths we didn't start any some more strengths we didn't start any new Wars we didn't is there something to new Wars we didn't is there something to new Wars we didn't is there something to that yeah that's it's it's interesting that yeah that's it's it's interesting that yeah that's it's it's interesting there's a few different approaches uh to there's a few different approaches uh to there's a few different approaches uh to dealing with that um first it's really dealing with that um first it's really dealing with that um first it's really important to remember that the important to remember that the important to remember that the Counterpoint to that from the folks who Counterpoint to that from the folks who Counterpoint to that from the folks who like to say that was that Hillary like to say that was that Hillary like to say that was that Hillary Clinton was going to start three Wars Clinton was going to start three Wars Clinton was going to start three Wars sometimes they say four Wars sometimes sometimes they say four Wars sometimes sometimes they say four Wars sometimes they say five Wars okay um the they say five Wars okay um the they say five Wars okay um the geopolitical situation during the four geopolitical situation during the four geopolitical situation during the four years that Trump was in office I don't years that Trump was in office I don't years that Trump was in office I don't know that they obviously lent themselves know that they obviously lent themselves know that they obviously lent themselves to Wars that Trump just barely was able to Wars that Trump just barely was able to Wars that Trump just barely was able to keep us out of I think the Russia to keep us out of I think the Russia to keep us out of I think the Russia thing is interesting because now it's thing is interesting because now it's thing is interesting because now it's very popular to go back and say you know very popular to go back and say you know very popular to go back and say you know the reason Putin didn't do the Ukraine the reason Putin didn't do the Ukraine the reason Putin didn't do the Ukraine thing when Trump right and to somehow thing when Trump right and to somehow thing when Trump right and to somehow give Trump credit for that there's a give Trump credit for that there's a give Trump credit for that there's a Counterpoint to it which is Putin under Counterpoint to it which is Putin under Counterpoint to it which is Putin under Trump particularly if Trump got four Trump particularly if Trump got four Trump particularly if Trump got four more years would have been able to maybe more years would have been able to maybe more years would have been able to maybe consolidate power in other ways because consolidate power in other ways because consolidate power in other ways because of his relationship with Trump I'm not of his relationship with Trump I'm not of his relationship with Trump I'm not coming down on one side or the other coming down on one side or the other coming down on one side or the other it's not my area of expertise but it's it's not my area of expertise but it's it's not my area of expertise but it's not the open shut slam dunk that you not the open shut slam dunk that you not the open shut slam dunk that you know Trump likes to say it is Putin know Trump likes to say it is Putin know Trump likes to say it is Putin didn't invade because he knew I would didn't invade because he knew I would didn't invade because he knew I would crush him and okay so it's not obvious crush him and okay so it's not obvious crush him and okay so it's not obvious to me that there were imminently Wars to me that there were imminently Wars to me that there were imminently Wars that would have started during that time that would have started during that time that would have started during that time that being said um you know for all the that being said um you know for all the that being said um you know for all the criticism of Obama during

criticism of Obama during criticism of Obama during Crimea Trump seemed to just kind of Crimea Trump seemed to just kind of Crimea Trump seemed to just kind of forget about that after all the forget about that after all the forget about that after all the criticism and say I'm not actually going criticism and say I'm not actually going criticism and say I'm not actually going to do anything about that and so there to do anything about that and so there to do anything about that and so there there are foreign policy uh criticisms there are foreign policy uh criticisms there are foreign policy uh criticisms that that could be made but it is true that that could be made but it is true that that could be made but it is true no new wars were started under Trump and no new wars were started under Trump and no new wars were started under Trump and that I I like that I don't like Wars that I I like that I don't like Wars that I I like that I don't like Wars what do you think about us handling of what do you think about us handling of what do you think about us handling of Co can you say what are the pros and Co can you say what are the pros and Co can you say what are the pros and cons of his handling of Co the con for cons of his handling of Co the con for cons of his handling of Co the con for him is he'd be president right now if he him is he'd be president right now if he him is he'd be president right now if he had handled it differently I think it's had handled it differently I think it's had handled it differently I think it's abundantly clear um early on and there's abundantly clear um early on and there's abundantly clear um early on and there's now a lot of really good reporting about now a lot of really good reporting about now a lot of really good reporting about the conversations he was having with the conversations he was having with the conversations he was having with Jared Kushner and others he became Jared Kushner and others he became Jared Kushner and others he became convinced either because of of things he convinced either because of of things he convinced either because of of things he was being told or because he decided was being told or because he decided was being told or because he decided this is the way it's going to be this is this is the way it's going to be this is this is the way it's going to be this is going to go away fine it's in China okay going to go away fine it's in China okay going to go away fine it's in China okay it's in China and Italy okay we have 15 it's in China and Italy okay we have 15 it's in China and Italy okay we have 15 cases but it'll soon be zero we'll be cases but it'll soon be zero we'll be cases but it'll soon be zero we'll be opened by Easter of opened by Easter of opened by Easter of 2020 none of it 2020 none of it 2020 none of it happened if he had handled it in the happened if he had handled it in the happened if he had handled it in the following way and I've said this to following way and I've said this to following way and I've said this to Rogan and I've said this to Patrick B Rogan and I've said this to Patrick B Rogan and I've said this to Patrick B David and they tend to all see my side David and they tend to all see my side David and they tend to all see my side of this if Trump had said listen we of this if Trump had said listen we of this if Trump had said listen we don't know how bad this is going to be don't know how bad this is going to be don't know how bad this is going to be but I care too much about the American but I care too much about the American but I care too much about the American people to take a shot so it's not going people to take a shot so it's not going people to take a shot so it's not going to be two weeks it's going to be a to be two weeks it's going to be a to be two weeks it's going to be a little bit but I need your help we're little bit but I need your help we're little bit but I need your help we're going to bring everybody together I going to bring everybody together I going to bring everybody together I don't care if you're a democrat or a don't care if you're a democrat or a don't care if you're a democrat or a republican we're going to have magga republican we're going to have magga republican we're going to have magga masks and he could have kept 50 cents on masks and he could have kept 50 cents on masks and he could have kept 50 cents on the dollar to pay off stormmy or whoever the dollar to pay off stormmy or whoever the dollar to pay off stormmy or whoever right but it would have been I think he

right but it would have been I think he right but it would have been I think he wins re-election because the perception wins re-election because the perception wins re-election because the perception was and reality is a version of that the was and reality is a version of that the was and reality is a version of that the perception was that he was way too perception was that he was way too perception was that he was way too Cavalier about it early on uh people Cavalier about it early on uh people Cavalier about it early on uh people died who didn't need to die and I think died who didn't need to die and I think died who didn't need to die and I think that it was that it was that it was arguably the one area where he could arguably the one area where he could arguably the one area where he could have all but guaranteed that he was have all but guaranteed that he was have all but guaranteed that he was going to get himself reelected well to going to get himself reelected well to going to get himself reelected well to push back on that I mean because you push back on that I mean because you push back on that I mean because you mentioned sort of masks and lockdowns mentioned sort of masks and lockdowns mentioned sort of masks and lockdowns kind of a solution to covid I didn't kind of a solution to covid I didn't kind of a solution to covid I didn't mention lockdowns but I'm glad to talk mention lockdowns but I'm glad to talk mention lockdowns but I'm glad to talk about policy quarantine like there's about policy quarantine like there's about policy quarantine like there's several solutions to pandemic broadly several solutions to pandemic broadly several solutions to pandemic broadly speaking and one of them is vaccine and speaking and one of them is vaccine and speaking and one of them is vaccine and so you didn't mention that he fast so you didn't mention that he fast so you didn't mention that he fast tracked the development he his tracked the development he his tracked the development he his administration fast-tracked the administration fast-tracked the administration fast-tracked the development of the vaccine which development of the vaccine which development of the vaccine which surprisingly he didn't really take much surprisingly he didn't really take much surprisingly he didn't really take much credit for I think he did I think he credit for I think he did I think he credit for I think he did I think he tried there's a couple there's a lot tried there's a couple there's a lot tried there's a couple there's a lot there well to to me it seems like you there well to to me it seems like you there well to to me it seems like you could make the case with the Trump hand could make the case with the Trump hand could make the case with the Trump hand gestures that his decisions for FASTT gestures that his decisions for FASTT gestures that his decisions for FASTT tracking the development of the vaccine tracking the development of the vaccine tracking the development of the vaccine saved tens of millions of lives you can saved tens of millions of lives you can saved tens of millions of lives you can make you he could in the trumpian way make you he could in the trumpian way make you he could in the trumpian way make that case so couple different make that case so couple different make that case so couple different things I know you don't necessarily things I know you don't necessarily things I know you don't necessarily follow Trump's rallies as closely as I follow Trump's rallies as closely as I follow Trump's rallies as closely as I do uh and I'm jealous of you for that do uh and I'm jealous of you for that do uh and I'm jealous of you for that but um he did Tout The vaccine stuff but um he did Tout The vaccine stuff but um he did Tout The vaccine stuff hugely for a while until his audience

hugely for a while until his audience hugely for a while until his audience turned against him and then he had to turned against him and then he had to turned against him and then he had to draw this line where he was going I made draw this line where he was going I made draw this line where he was going I made the vaccines which none of you have to the vaccines which none of you have to the vaccines which none of you have to take by the way Freedom you don't have take by the way Freedom you don't have take by the way Freedom you don't have to take them but it's fantastic and to take them but it's fantastic and to take them but it's fantastic and nobody else could have done it but don't nobody else could have done it but don't nobody else could have done it but don't worry nobody's going to make you take worry nobody's going to make you take worry nobody's going to make you take the vaccine and he actually got booed at the vaccine and he actually got booed at the vaccine and he actually got booed at a couple of his own rallies when talking a couple of his own rallies when talking a couple of his own rallies when talking about the vaccines but let's back up a about the vaccines but let's back up a about the vaccines but let's back up a little bit fast tracking my little bit fast tracking my little bit fast tracking my understanding of what he did is he did understanding of what he did is he did understanding of what he did is he did what any president in his situation what any president in his situation what any president in his situation would do and what many world leaders would do and what many world leaders would do and what many world leaders elsewhere did as well which is he agreed elsewhere did as well which is he agreed elsewhere did as well which is he agreed to uh pre purchase supply of vaccine in to uh pre purchase supply of vaccine in to uh pre purchase supply of vaccine in order to PR provide money to order to PR provide money to order to PR provide money to pharmaceutical companies to scale up the pharmaceutical companies to scale up the pharmaceutical companies to scale up the manufacturing which is absolutely fine manufacturing which is absolutely fine manufacturing which is absolutely fine um but he wants one of the stories he um but he wants one of the stories he um but he wants one of the stories he tells is it usually takes 12 years to tells is it usually takes 12 years to tells is it usually takes 12 years to develop a vaccine we did it in m nine develop a vaccine we did it in m nine develop a vaccine we did it in m nine months thanks to months thanks to months thanks to me Decades of mRNA technology being me Decades of mRNA technology being me Decades of mRNA technology being developed created the platform in which developed created the platform in which developed created the platform in which you can make a particular vaccine in you can make a particular vaccine in you can make a particular vaccine in nine months didn't have anything to do nine months didn't have anything to do nine months didn't have anything to do with Trump he did but he also delegated control to uh to but he also delegated control to uh to people to experts that enable that kind people to experts that enable that kind people to experts that enable that kind of uh fast tracking of vaccines right he of uh fast tracking of vaccines right he of uh fast tracking of vaccines right he was very eager for the FDA to approve it was very eager for the FDA to approve it was very eager for the FDA to approve it because he saw that there would be a because he saw that there would be a because he saw that there would be a political benefit and he didn't get in political benefit and he didn't get in political benefit and he didn't get in the way I guess he didn't get in the way the way I guess he didn't get in the way the way I guess he didn't get in the way fair I think now we're on the same page fair I think now we're on the same page fair I think now we're on the same page he did not get in the way of vaccines he did not get in the way of vaccines he did not get in the way of vaccines being developed which is good presidents

being developed which is good presidents being developed which is good presidents and uh bureaucracies have a way of and uh bureaucracies have a way of and uh bureaucracies have a way of getting in the getting in the getting in the way I don't uh disagree with that I'm way I don't uh disagree with that I'm way I don't uh disagree with that I'm not aware of really any governments that not aware of really any governments that not aware of really any governments that got in the way I mean it seemed given got in the way I mean it seemed given got in the way I mean it seemed given the global situation everybody European the global situation everybody European the global situation everybody European countries were pre- purchasing vaccine countries were pre- purchasing vaccine countries were pre- purchasing vaccine uh African countries were who were going uh African countries were who were going uh African countries were who were going to be later to receive vaccines were to be later to receive vaccines were to be later to receive vaccines were partnering with the European countries partnering with the European countries partnering with the European countries that had pre- purchased but the most that had pre- purchased but the most that had pre- purchased but the most interesting thing about all of this is interesting thing about all of this is interesting thing about all of this is Trump did play up the vaccines for a Trump did play up the vaccines for a Trump did play up the vaccines for a long time until his his crowd didn't long time until his his crowd didn't long time until his his crowd didn't want to hear about it anymore which was want to hear about it anymore which was want to hear about it anymore which was crazy it was sort of like he became a crazy it was sort of like he became a crazy it was sort of like he became a victim of the monster he created to some victim of the monster he created to some victim of the monster he created to some degree one of the effects of all this degree one of the effects of all this degree one of the effects of all this that makes me truly sad is uh this that makes me truly sad is uh this that makes me truly sad is uh this division over the vaccines has created division over the vaccines has created division over the vaccines has created distrust in science yeah and also what distrust in science yeah and also what distrust in science yeah and also what makes me sad is the makes me sad is the makes me sad is the scientific uh leaders Anthony foui being scientific uh leaders Anthony foui being scientific uh leaders Anthony foui being one of the representatives of that one of the representatives of that one of the representatives of that Community I would say completely dropped Community I would say completely dropped Community I would say completely dropped the ball in what way they they spoke the ball in what way they they spoke the ball in what way they they spoke with arrogance they spoke down to people with arrogance they spoke down to people with arrogance they spoke down to people they spoke in a way that's that a great they spoke in a way that's that a great they spoke in a way that's that a great scientist does not speak speak which is scientist does not speak speak which is scientist does not speak speak which is they spoke with they spoke with they spoke with certainty uh without humility uh like certainty uh without humility uh like certainty uh without humility uh like they have all the wisdom and all of us they have all the wisdom and all of us they have all the wisdom and all of us are too dumb to understand it but are too dumb to understand it but are too dumb to understand it but they're going to be the parent that they're going to be the parent that they're going to be the parent that tells us exactly what to do versus tells us exactly what to do versus tells us exactly what to do versus speaking to the immensity of the problem speaking to the immensity of the problem speaking to the immensity of the problem the Deep core of the problem being the the Deep core of the problem being the the Deep core of the problem being the uncertainty we don't know what to do the uncertainty we don't know what to do the uncertainty we don't know what to do the the terrifying thing about the pandemic

the terrifying thing about the pandemic the terrifying thing about the pandemic we don't know anything about it as it's we don't know anything about it as it's we don't know anything about it as it's happening and so you have to make happening and so you have to make happening and so you have to make decisions you have to take risks decisions you have to take risks decisions you have to take risks about well maybe you have to overreact about well maybe you have to overreact about well maybe you have to overreact in order to protect the populace but in order to protect the populace but in order to protect the populace but it's in the face of uncertainty they it's in the face of uncertainty they it's in the face of uncertainty they have to do that not uh not powered have to do that not uh not powered have to do that not uh not powered empowered by science somehow and the empowered by science somehow and the empowered by science somehow and the Deep expertise that somebody like Deep expertise that somebody like Deep expertise that somebody like Anthony fouchi uh claims to have so like Anthony fouchi uh claims to have so like Anthony fouchi uh claims to have so like the the I just I'm really troubled by um the the I just I'm really troubled by um the the I just I'm really troubled by um yeah the distress and science that yeah the distress and science that yeah the distress and science that resulted from that and that you have to resulted from that and that you have to resulted from that and that you have to blame the leaders I mean to the blame the leaders I mean to the blame the leaders I mean to the degree leaders take respons degree leaders take respons degree leaders take respons responsibility and I think Anthony Fu responsibility and I think Anthony Fu responsibility and I think Anthony Fu was the scientific leader behind um the was the scientific leader behind um the was the scientific leader behind um the American response to the pandemic and I American response to the pandemic and I American response to the pandemic and I think he think he think he failed uh as a good as a scientist as a failed uh as a good as a scientist as a failed uh as a good as a scientist as a representative of science I'm less um I representative of science I'm less um I representative of science I'm less um I don't know if interested is the right don't know if interested is the right don't know if interested is the right word but the kind of the the fouchy word but the kind of the the fouchy word but the kind of the the fouchy review is less interesting to me in review is less interesting to me in review is less interesting to me in terms of what comes next than the first terms of what comes next than the first terms of what comes next than the first part you mentioned which is the distrust part you mentioned which is the distrust part you mentioned which is the distrust in science and sometimes I'll get in science and sometimes I'll get in science and sometimes I'll get voicemails or emails from people in my voicemails or emails from people in my voicemails or emails from people in my audience who say that I have had to audience who say that I have had to audience who say that I have had to backpedal on certain things related to backpedal on certain things related to backpedal on certain things related to this and one of the things I tried to do this and one of the things I tried to do this and one of the things I tried to do from the beginning was not speak in from the beginning was not speak in from the beginning was not speak in certain terms when we really didn't have certain terms when we really didn't have certain terms when we really didn't have complete information so there was this complete information so there was this complete information so there was this period where hydroxychloroquine was period where hydroxychloroquine was period where hydroxychloroquine was first sort of mentioned as a possible first sort of mentioned as a possible first sort of mentioned as a possible treatment prophylactic or or um you know treatment prophylactic or or um you know treatment prophylactic or or um you know proactive treatment for covid or active

proactive treatment for covid or active proactive treatment for covid or active treatment for covid along with a bunch treatment for covid along with a bunch treatment for covid along with a bunch of other stuff there was IC of other stuff there was IC of other stuff there was IC there was vitamin D there all sorts of there was vitamin D there all sorts of there was vitamin D there all sorts of different things and I tried to be different things and I tried to be different things and I tried to be careful to say right now we don't have careful to say right now we don't have careful to say right now we don't have rigorous science that tells us that some rigorous science that tells us that some rigorous science that tells us that some of these things work it doesn't mean of these things work it doesn't mean of these things work it doesn't mean that won't come in the future at which that won't come in the future at which that won't come in the future at which point if there was something as cheap as point if there was something as cheap as point if there was something as cheap as hydroxy chloroquin that treated Co hydroxy chloroquin that treated Co hydroxy chloroquin that treated Co effectively unbelievable fantastic it's effectively unbelievable fantastic it's effectively unbelievable fantastic it's not there's no way it ever will be not there's no way it ever will be not there's no way it ever will be determined we don't have that determined we don't have that determined we don't have that information right now so it's not Super information right now so it's not Super information right now so it's not Super Wise right now to go and start taking Wise right now to go and start taking Wise right now to go and start taking this stuff we eventually learned like this stuff we eventually learned like this stuff we eventually learned like with vitamin D having an appropriate with vitamin D having an appropriate with vitamin D having an appropriate vitamin D level does seem to be based on vitamin D level does seem to be based on vitamin D level does seem to be based on what I most recently read generally what I most recently read generally what I most recently read generally protective and a good thing when it protective and a good thing when it protective and a good thing when it comes to infections of different great comes to infections of different great comes to infections of different great okay so that one we we figured out one okay so that one we we figured out one okay so that one we we figured out one of the really difficult things is that of the really difficult things is that of the really difficult things is that the quote truth about the vaccines did the quote truth about the vaccines did the quote truth about the vaccines did change and the original again this is change and the original again this is change and the original again this is all I don't pretend to be an expert but all I don't pretend to be an expert but all I don't pretend to be an expert but just someone who synthesized ing the just someone who synthesized ing the just someone who synthesized ing the medical data and writing about it medical data and writing about it medical data and writing about it originally the first originally the first originally the first vaccine related to the wild type strain vaccine related to the wild type strain vaccine related to the wild type strain did seem to be very effective not only did seem to be very effective not only did seem to be very effective not only at preventing death and serious illness at preventing death and serious illness at preventing death and serious illness but also transmission MH there were but also transmission MH there were but also transmission MH there were people then saying it doesn't prevent people then saying it doesn't prevent people then saying it doesn't prevent transmission over time as the variants transmission over time as the variants transmission over time as the variants came forward the vaccine became less came forward the vaccine became less came forward the vaccine became less effective at that at that point I

effective at that at that point I effective at that at that point I started telling my audience something started telling my audience something started telling my audience something different because as far as I was different because as far as I was different because as far as I was concerned the reality on the ground had concerned the reality on the ground had concerned the reality on the ground had changed in my mind that's how science changed in my mind that's how science changed in my mind that's how science works it's not back peddling it's we're works it's not back peddling it's we're works it's not back peddling it's we're adjusting our beliefs to what is taking adjusting our beliefs to what is taking adjusting our beliefs to what is taking place in the real world well to be fair place in the real world well to be fair place in the real world well to be fair uh the scientists many of whom are my uh the scientists many of whom are my uh the scientists many of whom are my friends biologists and biologists they friends biologists and biologists they friends biologists and biologists they have way more humility than uh people have way more humility than uh people have way more humility than uh people like Anthony fi who was speaking about like Anthony fi who was speaking about like Anthony fi who was speaking about this or the CEO fizer who were speaking this or the CEO fizer who were speaking this or the CEO fizer who were speaking about this this is the fundamental about this this is the fundamental about this this is the fundamental problem here is the way science work is problem here is the way science work is problem here is the way science work is has the way science works is there's has the way science works is there's has the way science works is there's usually a lot more humility and a lot usually a lot more humility and a lot usually a lot more humility and a lot more transparency about what we know more transparency about what we know more transparency about what we know what we don't know and um people like what we don't know and um people like what we don't know and um people like Anthony falchi thought it would be Anthony falchi thought it would be Anthony falchi thought it would be beneficial for the world if he speaks beneficial for the world if he speaks beneficial for the world if he speaks with more with more with more certainty but because of the political certainty but because of the political certainty but because of the political division that formed around that that division that formed around that that division that formed around that that certainty resulted in became completely certainty resulted in became completely certainty resulted in became completely counterproductive that people didn't counterproductive that people didn't counterproductive that people didn't trust anything about the vaccine didn't trust anything about the vaccine didn't trust anything about the vaccine didn't trust any institutions there were uh trust any institutions there were uh trust any institutions there were uh that contained the s that actually knew that contained the s that actually knew that contained the s that actually knew what they were doing and basically what they were doing and basically what they were doing and basically didn't trust anything that was coming didn't trust anything that was coming didn't trust anything that was coming out of the mouths of scientists uh some out of the mouths of scientists uh some out of the mouths of scientists uh some percent of some large percent of the percent of some large percent of the percent of some large percent of the population so you that made you population so you that made you population so you that made you completely ineffective in completely ineffective in completely ineffective in uh uh at scale as a society trying to uh uh at scale as a society trying to uh uh at scale as a society trying to respond to a terrible pandemic and respond to a terrible pandemic and respond to a terrible pandemic and that's where I put a lot of blame on that's where I put a lot of blame on that's where I put a lot of blame on leaders so uh political leaders and leaders so uh political leaders and leaders so uh political leaders and scientific leaders are the ones that scientific leaders are the ones that scientific leaders are the ones that should Inspire us to all get together should Inspire us to all get together should Inspire us to all get together and respond that that should be the case

and respond that that should be the case and respond that that should be the case for um the pandemic that should be the for um the pandemic that should be the for um the pandemic that should be the case in the time of War all this kind of case in the time of War all this kind of case in the time of War all this kind of stuff I I generally agree with you and stuff I I generally agree with you and stuff I I generally agree with you and for me it's really about shared blame for me it's really about shared blame for me it's really about shared blame and there were a lot of different and there were a lot of different and there were a lot of different reasons why that the early communication reasons why that the early communication reasons why that the early communication wasn't good uh part of it was I mean for wasn't good uh part of it was I mean for wasn't good uh part of it was I mean for me I prefer accuracy rather than um me I prefer accuracy rather than um me I prefer accuracy rather than um overconfidence I would prefer listen we overconfidence I would prefer listen we overconfidence I would prefer listen we don't really know right now whether don't really know right now whether don't really know right now whether masks do X or Y what we do know is the masks do X or Y what we do know is the masks do X or Y what we do know is the supply is really limited of this type of supply is really limited of this type of supply is really limited of this type of mask we're going to try to keep them for mask we're going to try to keep them for mask we're going to try to keep them for the Frontline workers I love that that's the Frontline workers I love that that's the Frontline workers I love that that's the way I want to be communicated to a the way I want to be communicated to a the way I want to be communicated to a call was made to do it differently which call was made to do it differently which call was made to do it differently which was to say The Masks don't actually help was to say The Masks don't actually help was to say The Masks don't actually help yeah but the real reason is they want to yeah but the real reason is they want to yeah but the real reason is they want to keep them for healthcare workers and keep them for healthcare workers and keep them for healthcare workers and then later The Masks are what's going to then later The Masks are what's going to then later The Masks are what's going to solve I'm with I'm with you 100% I think solve I'm with I'm with you 100% I think solve I'm with I'm with you 100% I think the other layer to it is you can't the other layer to it is you can't the other layer to it is you can't ignore the political situation at the ignore the political situation at the ignore the political situation at the time if Trump had won reelection and the time if Trump had won reelection and the time if Trump had won reelection and the vaccine distribution had taken place vaccine distribution had taken place vaccine distribution had taken place while Trump was president rather than while Trump was president rather than while Trump was president rather than Biden my belief is that the same number Biden my belief is that the same number Biden my belief is that the same number of Democrats would have gotten of Democrats would have gotten of Democrats would have gotten vaccinated but way more Republicans vaccinated but way more Republicans vaccinated but way more Republicans would have as well because they were would have as well because they were would have as well because they were following not science but political following not science but political following not science but political leaders and when it was Biden in DC leaders and when it was Biden in DC leaders and when it was Biden in DC instead of trump a lot of those people instead of trump a lot of those people instead of trump a lot of those people said I don't trust the vaccine but wait said I don't trust the vaccine but wait said I don't trust the vaccine but wait it's Trump's vaccine I thought yeah but it's Trump's vaccine I thought yeah but it's Trump's vaccine I thought yeah but something about the way Biden's something about the way Biden's something about the way Biden's Distributing it so I do think you can't Distributing it so I do think you can't Distributing it so I do think you can't ignore that political layer I agree with ignore that political layer I agree with ignore that political layer I agree with you the communication was a you the communication was a you the communication was a disaster let me ask you about Joe Biden disaster let me ask you about Joe Biden disaster let me ask you about Joe Biden what are the strengths the weaknesses of

what are the strengths the weaknesses of what are the strengths the weaknesses of Joe Biden weaknesses I think are some of Joe Biden weaknesses I think are some of Joe Biden weaknesses I think are some of the things you've identified he is not the things you've identified he is not the things you've identified he is not seen as um high energy he is um not the seen as um high energy he is um not the seen as um high energy he is um not the same Joe Biden that debated Paul Ryan in same Joe Biden that debated Paul Ryan in same Joe Biden that debated Paul Ryan in 2012 and ran circles around him in just 2012 and ran circles around him in just 2012 and ran circles around him in just an incredible debate an incredible debate an incredible debate performance uh he is not inspiring in performance uh he is not inspiring in performance uh he is not inspiring in the way that someone like a Barack Obama the way that someone like a Barack Obama the way that someone like a Barack Obama was to people coming up and starting to was to people coming up and starting to was to people coming up and starting to get interested in politics I think a lot get interested in politics I think a lot get interested in politics I think a lot of those uh are fair criticisms I think of those uh are fair criticisms I think of those uh are fair criticisms I think on policy he's not interested in a lot on policy he's not interested in a lot on policy he's not interested in a lot of the things that younger voters are of the things that younger voters are of the things that younger voters are interested in I mentioned cannabis interested in I mentioned cannabis interested in I mentioned cannabis reform um I mentioned student loans so reform um I mentioned student loans so reform um I mentioned student loans so so I think that that's a deficit for so I think that that's a deficit for so I think that that's a deficit for Biden I think the upside to Biden is Biden I think the upside to Biden is Biden I think the upside to Biden is when it comes to foreign policy when it comes to foreign policy when it comes to foreign policy diplomacy highlevel negotiations knowing diplomacy highlevel negotiations knowing diplomacy highlevel negotiations knowing how to engage with allies and productive how to engage with allies and productive how to engage with allies and productive way it's tough to find someone with with way it's tough to find someone with with way it's tough to find someone with with more experience than Biden I know that more experience than Biden I know that more experience than Biden I know that there are counterpoints to what I'm there are counterpoints to what I'm there are counterpoints to what I'm saying and those include that was the saying and those include that was the saying and those include that was the old Biden the new Biden doesn't have it old Biden the new Biden doesn't have it old Biden the new Biden doesn't have it that includes that's just a sign of rot that includes that's just a sign of rot that includes that's just a sign of rot because he's been around for so long because he's been around for so long because he's been around for so long nobody should be around that long in nobody should be around that long in nobody should be around that long in politics perfectly reasonable criticisms politics perfectly reasonable criticisms politics perfectly reasonable criticisms to talk about but I do see that as one to talk about but I do see that as one to talk about but I do see that as one of his strengths and he also is good at of his strengths and he also is good at of his strengths and he also is good at knowing when he can work with knowing when he can work with knowing when he can work with Republicans and when he can't and not Republicans and when he can't and not Republicans and when he can't and not wasting more time than is sort of

wasting more time than is sort of wasting more time than is sort of expected for posturing reasons and I expected for posturing reasons and I expected for posturing reasons and I think that that's a good thing do you think that that's a good thing do you think that that's a good thing do you think he's actually there so in a think he's actually there so in a think he's actually there so in a day-to-day operation of government given day-to-day operation of government given day-to-day operation of government given his cognitive capabilities do you think his cognitive capabilities do you think his cognitive capabilities do you think he is he is he is um uh an active and practicing executive um uh an active and practicing executive um uh an active and practicing executive I don't know that I can say that it's I don't know that I can say that it's I don't know that I can say that it's because of what may be going on because of what may be going on because of what may be going on cognitively but my sense from the people cognitively but my sense from the people cognitively but my sense from the people I talk to is that he's very much invol I talk to is that he's very much invol I talk to is that he's very much invol involved in the highest level involved in the highest level involved in the highest level geopolitical and big domestic economic geopolitical and big domestic economic geopolitical and big domestic economic stuff but that a lot of the smaller stuff but that a lot of the smaller stuff but that a lot of the smaller issues that presidents might or might issues that presidents might or might issues that presidents might or might not be in in sort of plugged into that not be in in sort of plugged into that not be in in sort of plugged into that he's not plugged into the the details of he's not plugged into the the details of he's not plugged into the the details of a lot of the the lower level stuff I a lot of the the lower level stuff I a lot of the the lower level stuff I mean you could probably apply the same mean you could probably apply the same mean you could probably apply the same exact criticism even more so towards the exact criticism even more so towards the exact criticism even more so towards the Donald Trump Administration in terms of Donald Trump Administration in terms of Donald Trump Administration in terms of being a practicing active uh executive being a practicing active uh executive being a practicing active uh executive who's paying attention like for example who's paying attention like for example who's paying attention like for example like Vladimir Putin is somebody um like Vladimir Putin is somebody um like Vladimir Putin is somebody um who loves the the role of the executive who loves the the role of the executive who loves the the role of the executive has a huge amount of meetings has has a huge amount of meetings has has a huge amount of meetings has constantly tracking information about constantly tracking information about constantly tracking information about agriculture and all the different agriculture and all the different agriculture and all the different subsystems of government Stalin funny subsystems of government Stalin funny subsystems of government Stalin funny enough was also extremely good at this enough was also extremely good at this enough was also extremely good at this so certain people just love the job of so certain people just love the job of so certain people just love the job of being an executive and I'm not sure if being an executive and I'm not sure if being an executive and I'm not sure if Donald Trump Donald Trump Donald Trump did um and I'm not sure if uh Joe Biden did um and I'm not sure if uh Joe Biden did um and I'm not sure if uh Joe Biden in his current state has the cognitive in his current state has the cognitive in his current state has the cognitive cap ability to it's a it's a good cap ability to it's a it's a good cap ability to it's a it's a good question Kim jong-un's another one by

question Kim jong-un's another one by question Kim jong-un's another one by the way you know there's videos of him the way you know there's videos of him the way you know there's videos of him uh examining a pottery you know Factory uh examining a pottery you know Factory uh examining a pottery you know Factory where they make plates and making very where they make plates and making very where they make plates and making very specific comments about how the plates specific comments about how the plates specific comments about how the plates should be made I think that in that case should be made I think that in that case should be made I think that in that case there's a lot of propaganda value to it there's a lot of propaganda value to it there's a lot of propaganda value to it with Trump uh I think you're probably with Trump uh I think you're probably with Trump uh I think you're probably right you know he did get involved in right you know he did get involved in right you know he did get involved in the minutia of things I mean once he the minutia of things I mean once he the minutia of things I mean once he pulled out a weather map and with a pulled out a weather map and with a pulled out a weather map and with a sharpie drew a different hurricane path sharpie drew a different hurricane path sharpie drew a different hurricane path that was more politically convenient to that was more politically convenient to that was more politically convenient to him that's pretty micro you know saying him that's pretty micro you know saying him that's pretty micro you know saying The Weather Channel's wrong I see what The Weather Channel's wrong I see what The Weather Channel's wrong I see what you did there this is okay that's a you did there this is okay that's a you did there this is okay that's a micro he went to Puerto Rico and he gave micro he went to Puerto Rico and he gave micro he went to Puerto Rico and he gave out paper towels after a hurricane now out paper towels after a hurricane now out paper towels after a hurricane now he was shooting them like free throws he was shooting them like free throws he was shooting them like free throws which didn't look very good so he will which didn't look very good so he will which didn't look very good so he will get involved in the micro when it's get involved in the micro when it's get involved in the micro when it's advantageous you know what I mean but I advantageous you know what I mean but I advantageous you know what I mean but I do agree with you that he wants to just do agree with you that he wants to just do agree with you that he wants to just kind of make it so build the wall I kind of make it so build the wall I kind of make it so build the wall I don't know just build it figure it out don't know just build it figure it out don't know just build it figure it out get it done quick pause bathroom break get it done quick pause bathroom break get it done quick pause bathroom break sure yeah you're sure yeah you're sure yeah you're hilarious and just for the sake of hilarious and just for the sake of hilarious and just for the sake of completeness I should mention the completeness I should mention the completeness I should mention the subreddit what Biden has done uh there's subreddit what Biden has done uh there's subreddit what Biden has done uh there's also what Trump has done but it's not as also what Trump has done but it's not as also what Trump has done but it's not as active and it has like this master list active and it has like this master list active and it has like this master list of all the accomplishments it's um I of all the accomplishments it's um I of all the accomplishments it's um I recommend people look at it CU there's recommend people look at it CU there's recommend people look at it CU there's um it's kind of rigorous and interesting um it's kind of rigorous and interesting um it's kind of rigorous and interesting with Link's uh list of all the things with Link's uh list of all the things with Link's uh list of all the things he's done just list some of them uh he's done just list some of them uh he's done just list some of them uh restored Daily Press briefings uh restored Daily Press briefings uh restored Daily Press briefings uh canceled the Keystone Pipeline revers canceled the Keystone Pipeline revers canceled the Keystone Pipeline revers Trump's Muslim ban required masks on Trump's Muslim ban required masks on Trump's Muslim ban required masks on federal property rejoins the Paris federal property rejoins the Paris federal property rejoins the Paris climate agreement extend student loan climate agreement extend student loan climate agreement extend student loan payment freeze extend eviction freeze

payment freeze extend eviction freeze payment freeze extend eviction freeze historic stimulus bill as you mentioned historic stimulus bill as you mentioned historic stimulus bill as you mentioned and funding for border wall and so on and funding for border wall and so on and funding for border wall and so on and so forth Daka uh order strengthening and so forth Daka uh order strengthening and so forth Daka uh order strengthening of Daka rejoins the World Health of Daka rejoins the World Health of Daka rejoins the World Health Organization and the timing of this of Organization and the timing of this of Organization and the timing of this of course is important um yeah several course is important um yeah several course is important um yeah several historic stimulus bills which of course historic stimulus bills which of course historic stimulus bills which of course you could criticize or support uh raise you could criticize or support uh raise you could criticize or support uh raise the minimum wage for federal contractors the minimum wage for federal contractors the minimum wage for federal contractors and federal employees for $15 and federal employees for $15 and federal employees for $15 um there's a lot there's a lot it makes um there's a lot there's a lot it makes um there's a lot there's a lot it makes you realize um with both Trump and Biden you realize um with both Trump and Biden you realize um with both Trump and Biden that there's a bunch of small details that there's a bunch of small details that there's a bunch of small details that matter yeah like that matter on that matter yeah like that matter on that matter yeah like that matter on people's lives like actual little people's lives like actual little people's lives like actual little policies uh Trump did a lot of stuff as policies uh Trump did a lot of stuff as policies uh Trump did a lot of stuff as far as I heard for the military like not far as I heard for the military like not far as I heard for the military like not big stuff but small stuff yeah I'd be big stuff but small stuff yeah I'd be big stuff but small stuff yeah I'd be curious what you're thinking of I mean I curious what you're thinking of I mean I curious what you're thinking of I mean I know one of the big things under Trump know one of the big things under Trump know one of the big things under Trump was we're going to get trans people out was we're going to get trans people out was we're going to get trans people out of the of the of the military uh that's not what I was military uh that's not what I was military uh that's not what I was referring to you weren't referring to referring to you weren't referring to referring to you weren't referring to that uh he Trump that tell you know that uh he Trump that tell you know that uh he Trump that tell you know Trump's hilarious with these stories Trump's hilarious with these stories Trump's hilarious with these stories that he tells and one of the story and that he tells and one of the story and that he tells and one of the story and you get to know them if you if you you get to know them if you if you you get to know them if you if you follow him at all he tells the story you follow him at all he tells the story you follow him at all he tells the story you know when I came into office the know when I came into office the know when I came into office the generals came to me and they said sir generals came to me and they said sir generals came to me and they said sir the cupboards are bare we have no the cupboards are bare we have no the cupboards are bare we have no bullets and so I rebuilt the military bullets and so I rebuilt the military bullets and so I rebuilt the military you know the cupboards were bare when you know the cupboards were bare when you know the cupboards were bare when Obama left it and it was just terrible Obama left it and it was just terrible Obama left it and it was just terrible but I rebuilt it and the generals I've but I rebuilt it and the generals I've but I rebuilt it and the generals I've got the best generals they said sir it's got the best generals they said sir it's got the best generals they said sir it's incredible what you were able to do you incredible what you were able to do you incredible what you were able to do you look into it and it's like yeah that's look into it and it's like yeah that's look into it and it's like yeah that's not really true like it is true that not really true like it is true that not really true like it is true that there are armaments that just like on a there are armaments that just like on a there are armaments that just like on a schedule do get replaced and that's part

schedule do get replaced and that's part schedule do get replaced and that's part of the military-industrial complex but of the military-industrial complex but of the military-industrial complex but there's nothing like special Trump there's nothing like special Trump there's nothing like special Trump really did but these stories become they really did but these stories become they really did but these stories become they take on like a life of their own and take on like a life of their own and take on like a life of their own and it's interesting to sometimes try to dig it's interesting to sometimes try to dig it's interesting to sometimes try to dig down and figure out like was there any down and figure out like was there any down and figure out like was there any policy connected to that or is that just policy connected to that or is that just policy connected to that or is that just a story do you think it's possible to a story do you think it's possible to a story do you think it's possible to have a good conversation with each of have a good conversation with each of have a good conversation with each of them Donald Trump and Joe Biden in a p them Donald Trump and Joe Biden in a p them Donald Trump and Joe Biden in a p in a podcast context or in a debate in a podcast context or in a debate in a podcast context or in a debate context absolutely Ely yeah you're context absolutely Ely yeah you're context absolutely Ely yeah you're saying like could I with either of them saying like could I with either of them saying like could I with either of them oh 100% yeah Joe Biden too sure yeah can oh 100% yeah Joe Biden too sure yeah can oh 100% yeah Joe Biden too sure yeah can you dig into that a little more well I you dig into that a little more well I you dig into that a little more well I mean I don't know what I think there's mean I don't know what I think there's mean I don't know what I think there's maybe something implicit in your in your maybe something implicit in your in your maybe something implicit in your in your question but uh that's deeper about the question but uh that's deeper about the question but uh that's deeper about the nature of politics and politicians yes I nature of politics and politicians yes I nature of politics and politicians yes I think with either of them I mean the think with either of them I mean the think with either of them I mean the political differences wouldn't be an political differences wouldn't be an political differences wouldn't be an impediment to having a good conversation impediment to having a good conversation impediment to having a good conversation with either of them um I think one of with either of them um I think one of with either of them um I think one of the things that's really tough in my the things that's really tough in my the things that's really tough in my experience when talking to elected experience when talking to elected experience when talking to elected officials is they could be super officials is they could be super officials is they could be super interesting about a 100 different topics interesting about a 100 different topics interesting about a 100 different topics but handlers decide or try to get you to but handlers decide or try to get you to but handlers decide or try to get you to talk about something you don't really talk about something you don't really talk about something you don't really care about and something really narrow care about and something really narrow care about and something really narrow which doesn't bring out your best nor which doesn't bring out your best nor which doesn't bring out your best nor their best yeah and that's a frustration their best yeah and that's a frustration their best yeah and that's a frustration but I think that given an unstructured but I think that given an unstructured but I think that given an unstructured three-hour conversation I think it would three-hour conversation I think it would three-hour conversation I think it would be interesting to talk to both I mean be interesting to talk to both I mean be interesting to talk to both I mean listen with with Biden aside from his listen with with Biden aside from his listen with with Biden aside from his view on cannabis or whatever his view on cannabis or whatever his view on cannabis or whatever his background and the incredible background and the incredible background and the incredible unimaginable family tragedy that he had unimaginable family tragedy that he had unimaginable family tragedy that he had in his first wife and you know multiple

in his first wife and you know multiple in his first wife and you know multiple kids dying I mean it it's just kids dying I mean it it's just kids dying I mean it it's just incredible you know and and with Trump I incredible you know and and with Trump I incredible you know and and with Trump I think also you could have an interesting think also you could have an interesting think also you could have an interesting conversation yeah those they're human conversation yeah those they're human conversation yeah those they're human beings with a life story yes they're beings with a life story yes they're beings with a life story yes they're that uh and they're some of the most that uh and they're some of the most that uh and they're some of the most successful humans who have ever lived to successful humans who have ever lived to successful humans who have ever lived to have uh Rose to this highest office in have uh Rose to this highest office in have uh Rose to this highest office in interesting complex ways yes I mean one interesting complex ways yes I mean one interesting complex ways yes I mean one of the things I'm troubled by maybe you of the things I'm troubled by maybe you of the things I'm troubled by maybe you can speak to is why we're so negative can speak to is why we're so negative can speak to is why we're so negative towards presidential candidates and towards presidential candidates and towards presidential candidates and presidents why it's just they go through presidents why it's just they go through presidents why it's just they go through this shit storm no matter who they are this shit storm no matter who they are this shit storm no matter who they are they're like hated like all the they're like hated like all the they're like hated like all the conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories and just just the Dynamics of how we talk just just the Dynamics of how we talk just just the Dynamics of how we talk about them is vicious if if you just about them is vicious if if you just about them is vicious if if you just look at replies to even Barack Obama on look at replies to even Barack Obama on look at replies to even Barack Obama on Twitter it's like what is going on here Twitter it's like what is going on here Twitter it's like what is going on here why why because we look at other leaders why why because we look at other leaders why why because we look at other leaders in other spaces and we're generally in other spaces and we're generally in other spaces and we're generally positive about it yeah there's a couple positive about it yeah there's a couple positive about it yeah there's a couple different things there's this Dynamic different things there's this Dynamic different things there's this Dynamic which is really unfortunate which is you which is really unfortunate which is you which is really unfortunate which is you ask people do you approve of the job a ask people do you approve of the job a ask people do you approve of the job a particular president is doing and very particular president is doing and very particular president is doing and very often if at any point while they were in often if at any point while they were in often if at any point while they were in office they did something you don't like office they did something you don't like office they did something you don't like people will say I don't approve and so people will say I don't approve and so people will say I don't approve and so by its nature what that means is just by its nature what that means is just by its nature what that means is just like the longer you're in office the like the longer you're in office the like the longer you're in office the lower your approval rating is going to lower your approval rating is going to lower your approval rating is going to be and very often that's the way it be and very often that's the way it be and very often that's the way it works I mean there's major events like works I mean there's major events like works I mean there's major events like 911 Spike George W Bush's approval to a 911 Spike George W Bush's approval to a 911 Spike George W Bush's approval to a incredible level then it came back down

incredible level then it came back down incredible level then it came back down with the Iraq War but there's this with the Iraq War but there's this with the Iraq War but there's this unfortunate thing that when when people unfortunate thing that when when people unfortunate thing that when when people are just asked you think Biden's doing a are just asked you think Biden's doing a are just asked you think Biden's doing a good job if four months ago Biden did good job if four months ago Biden did good job if four months ago Biden did something on healthc care that somebody something on healthc care that somebody something on healthc care that somebody didn't like even if you like most of it didn't like even if you like most of it didn't like even if you like most of it a lot of people from that point forward a lot of people from that point forward a lot of people from that point forward will say I don't approve they might will say I don't approve they might will say I don't approve they might still vote for him because they like him still vote for him because they like him still vote for him because they like him better than the alternative or whatever better than the alternative or whatever better than the alternative or whatever it's it's just the dynamic of politics it's it's just the dynamic of politics it's it's just the dynamic of politics and I agree it's it's very does it have and I agree it's it's very does it have and I agree it's it's very does it have to be that way you I don't think it has to be that way you I don't think it has to be that way you I don't think it has to be that way but to unwind it so many to be that way but to unwind it so many to be that way but to unwind it so many things would have to change I think our things would have to change I think our things would have to change I think our election system is part of why politics election system is part of why politics election system is part of why politics is the way it is where you have two is the way it is where you have two is the way it is where you have two choices and it's first past the post and choices and it's first past the post and choices and it's first past the post and we have this electoral college so that we have this electoral college so that we have this electoral college so that depending on which state you vote in the depending on which state you vote in the depending on which state you vote in the kind of meaning and significance of your kind of meaning and significance of your kind of meaning and significance of your vote is different if you vote in Montana vote is different if you vote in Montana vote is different if you vote in Montana it's the Republican candidate's going to it's the Republican candidate's going to it's the Republican candidate's going to win and that changes the the Dynamics I win and that changes the the Dynamics I win and that changes the the Dynamics I think that's part of it um I think that think that's part of it um I think that think that's part of it um I think that at a personal level I've experienced at a personal level I've experienced at a personal level I've experienced this in my life a this in my life a this in my life a lot we've become and by we I mean people lot we've become and by we I mean people lot we've become and by we I mean people in the United States to some degree who in the United States to some degree who in the United States to some degree who talk about this stuff we've become talk about this stuff we've become talk about this stuff we've become uncomfortable when there is disagreement uncomfortable when there is disagreement uncomfortable when there is disagreement and it bleeds over into now we can't and it bleeds over into now we can't and it bleeds over into now we can't have a normal interpersonal relationship have a normal interpersonal relationship have a normal interpersonal relationship anymore I'm from Argentina and in anymore I'm from Argentina and in anymore I'm from Argentina and in Argentina it's really common even in my Argentina it's really common even in my Argentina it's really common even in my family there are incredibly heated family there are incredibly heated family there are incredibly heated political debates political debates political debates at the start the middle the end of some at the start the middle the end of some at the start the middle the end of some kind of gathering but then everybody kind of gathering but then everybody kind of gathering but then everybody just goes back to like okay we disagree just goes back to like okay we disagree just goes back to like okay we disagree on some things but that's okay and we

on some things but that's okay and we on some things but that's okay and we can now go and you know finish cooking can now go and you know finish cooking can now go and you know finish cooking the beef or whatever it is that we're the beef or whatever it is that we're the beef or whatever it is that we're doing and uh I experienced this even doing and uh I experienced this even doing and uh I experienced this even with people who come up to me on the with people who come up to me on the with people who come up to me on the street and they go just earlier today a street and they go just earlier today a street and they go just earlier today a guy came up to me and he said RFK all guy came up to me and he said RFK all guy came up to me and he said RFK all the way baby talking about Bobby Kennedy the way baby talking about Bobby Kennedy the way baby talking about Bobby Kennedy Jr and I just kind you know I said oh Jr and I just kind you know I said oh Jr and I just kind you know I said oh all right you know let's see what all right you know let's see what all right you know let's see what happens and then there was another happens and then there was another happens and then there was another moment where the guy ended up standing moment where the guy ended up standing moment where the guy ended up standing next to me for maybe longer than he next to me for maybe longer than he next to me for maybe longer than he thought and I could tell this guy's thought and I could tell this guy's thought and I could tell this guy's getting so awkward because it was an getting so awkward because it was an getting so awkward because it was an utterance he thought that would just be utterance he thought that would just be utterance he thought that would just be on the Fly and he'd be gone but now on the Fly and he'd be gone but now on the Fly and he'd be gone but now we're standing next to each other we're standing next to each other we're standing next to each other waiting for our sandwiches it's like no waiting for our sandwiches it's like no waiting for our sandwiches it's like no big deal you know it's just oh okay you big deal you know it's just oh okay you big deal you know it's just oh okay you like Bobby Kennedy Jr I don't plan to like Bobby Kennedy Jr I don't plan to like Bobby Kennedy Jr I don't plan to vote for it's fine you know and that's vote for it's fine you know and that's vote for it's fine you know and that's like a sociocultural thing I think like a sociocultural thing I think like a sociocultural thing I think there's lots of other countries I've there's lots of other countries I've there's lots of other countries I've spent time in uh Italy I have relatives spent time in uh Italy I have relatives spent time in uh Italy I have relatives in Israel where like shouting at each in Israel where like shouting at each in Israel where like shouting at each other is sort of like normal and then other is sort of like normal and then other is sort of like normal and then you just go back and finish the me it you just go back and finish the me it you just go back and finish the me it sounds like shouting I'm sort of sounds like shouting I'm sort of sounds like shouting I'm sort of exaggerating but very animated what seem exaggerating but very animated what seem exaggerating but very animated what seem like big disagreements and then like big disagreements and then like big disagreements and then everybody's cool I wish it were more everybody's cool I wish it were more everybody's cool I wish it were more normal so maybe the mechanism of going normal so maybe the mechanism of going normal so maybe the mechanism of going from shouting to being cool again needs from shouting to being cool again needs from shouting to being cool again needs to improve cuz maybe we can't solve the to improve cuz maybe we can't solve the to improve cuz maybe we can't solve the shouting at each other maybe not so shouting at each other maybe not so shouting at each other maybe not so maybe we need to somehow figure out the maybe we need to somehow figure out the maybe we need to somehow figure out the deescalation like making up I've had a deescalation like making up I've had a deescalation like making up I've had a few uh recent fights with friends like few uh recent fights with friends like few uh recent fights with friends like that for politics no oh no but political that for politics no oh no but political that for politics no oh no but political style emotionally drenched stuff and it style emotionally drenched stuff and it style emotionally drenched stuff and it um it was interesting to go through that

um it was interesting to go through that um it was interesting to go through that full process and then make up at the end full process and then make up at the end full process and then make up at the end but it it was it was a process and it but it it was it was a process and it but it it was it was a process and it was a process that required being in was a process that required being in was a process that required being in person right talking through it and it person right talking through it and it person right talking through it and it was stressful the whole the whole thing was stressful the whole the whole thing was stressful the whole the whole thing and then maybe because most of our and then maybe because most of our and then maybe because most of our interactions are online we don't get a interactions are online we don't get a interactions are online we don't get a chance to do that in person making up chance to do that in person making up chance to do that in person making up again I don't know but uh do you think again I don't know but uh do you think again I don't know but uh do you think it's a feature or a bug of the system it's a feature or a bug of the system it's a feature or a bug of the system that were so we just hate well the that were so we just hate well the that were so we just hate well the powerful you mentioned the online part I powerful you mentioned the online part I powerful you mentioned the online part I think it's a you mentioned it earlier think it's a you mentioned it earlier think it's a you mentioned it earlier perfectly which is you take contentious perfectly which is you take contentious perfectly which is you take contentious political issues you create a platform political issues you create a platform political issues you create a platform that rewards controversy and that rewards controversy and that rewards controversy and disagreement and limits the number of disagreement and limits the number of disagreement and limits the number of characters you can use to express characters you can use to express characters you can use to express yourself you kind of throw it into a yourself you kind of throw it into a yourself you kind of throw it into a baking dish and and you know mix the baking dish and and you know mix the baking dish and and you know mix the entire thing up it's complete and total entire thing up it's complete and total entire thing up it's complete and total chaos and one of the things that you chaos and one of the things that you chaos and one of the things that you know I've talked before about all the know I've talked before about all the know I've talked before about all the angry emails and threats and stuff that angry emails and threats and stuff that angry emails and threats and stuff that I get I'm acutely aware that if I had I get I'm acutely aware that if I had I get I'm acutely aware that if I had iners conversations with most of these iners conversations with most of these iners conversations with most of these people the conversations would basically people the conversations would basically people the conversations would basically be like oh we have different views about be like oh we have different views about be like oh we have different views about how to solve some of the problems we're how to solve some of the problems we're how to solve some of the problems we're facing we probably agree about what the facing we probably agree about what the facing we probably agree about what the problem is and we probably share many problem is and we probably share many problem is and we probably share many values but on these particular four values but on these particular four values but on these particular four issues we may have very different views issues we may have very different views issues we may have very different views but that's okay online that's not the but that's okay online that's not the but that's okay online that's not the case case case and it leads to you know the the mess and it leads to you know the the mess and it leads to you know the the mess mess that we get ourselves in but I mess that we get ourselves in but I mess that we get ourselves in but I think that it's a feature of a lot of think that it's a feature of a lot of think that it's a feature of a lot of the systems that are being used to the systems that are being used to the systems that are being used to disseminate information again let me

disseminate information again let me disseminate information again let me Linger on that do you regret some of the Linger on that do you regret some of the Linger on that do you regret some of the mockery uh and the snark you use on mockery uh and the snark you use on mockery uh and the snark you use on Twitter and even in your show that kind Twitter and even in your show that kind Twitter and even in your show that kind of feeds that Division I don't regret it of feeds that Division I don't regret it of feeds that Division I don't regret it in the sense that it's a in the sense that it's a in the sense that it's a calculated part or tool that I use calculated part or tool that I use calculated part or tool that I use in addition to figuring out how to in addition to figuring out how to in addition to figuring out how to simplify complicated Concepts and simplify complicated Concepts and simplify complicated Concepts and choosing stories that I think are choosing stories that I think are choosing stories that I think are underrepresented and you know it's it's underrepresented and you know it's it's underrepresented and you know it's it's all part of like the package of what I'm all part of like the package of what I'm all part of like the package of what I'm doing I recognize that my show is not doing I recognize that my show is not doing I recognize that my show is not the audio Vis visual version of a the audio Vis visual version of a the audio Vis visual version of a peer-reviewed uh you know randomized peer-reviewed uh you know randomized peer-reviewed uh you know randomized controlled trial about abor views on controlled trial about abor views on controlled trial about abor views on abortion or whatever the case like I'm abortion or whatever the case like I'm abortion or whatever the case like I'm very much aware of that but I don't very much aware of that but I don't very much aware of that but I don't regret including it as a as a tool regret including it as a as a tool regret including it as a as a tool that I've used to build the community in that I've used to build the community in that I've used to build the community in some total that I've built over the last some total that I've built over the last some total that I've built over the last more than 10 years I guess I could ask more than 10 years I guess I could ask more than 10 years I guess I could ask about the different trajectories you about the different trajectories you about the different trajectories you think your show might take so you know think your show might take so you know think your show might take so you know the dynamic you had with Donald Trump Jr the dynamic you had with Donald Trump Jr the dynamic you had with Donald Trump Jr and maybe Candace Owens is the more and maybe Candace Owens is the more and maybe Candace Owens is the more appropriate comparison are you okay appropriate comparison are you okay appropriate comparison are you okay having that dance for the next few years having that dance for the next few years having that dance for the next few years between you and Candace Owens and just between you and Candace Owens and just between you and Candace Owens and just kind of the mockery the derision that's kind of the mockery the derision that's kind of the mockery the derision that's a part of that process and and taking a part of that process and and taking a part of that process and and taking part in that you know I'm fine with it part in that you know I'm fine with it part in that you know I'm fine with it in the sense of in the sense of in the sense of personally I tolerate it well until it

personally I tolerate it well until it personally I tolerate it well until it crosses the line and people pull my crosses the line and people pull my crosses the line and people pull my family in and right so that's the part family in and right so that's the part family in and right so that's the part if we set the family stuff aside if I if we set the family stuff aside if I if we set the family stuff aside if I set that aside just in the digital space set that aside just in the digital space set that aside just in the digital space I'm glad to mix it up now the truth is I'm glad to mix it up now the truth is I'm glad to mix it up now the truth is Candace Owens has had me blocked for Candace Owens has had me blocked for Candace Owens has had me blocked for years up until this incident I don't she years up until this incident I don't she years up until this incident I don't she unblocked me just to tweet about what I unblocked me just to tweet about what I unblocked me just to tweet about what I tweeted about I don't know the backstory tweeted about I don't know the backstory tweeted about I don't know the backstory of that genuinely I I have no idea so I of that genuinely I I have no idea so I of that genuinely I I have no idea so I don't have a sense that she's super don't have a sense that she's super don't have a sense that she's super interested in in engaging with me on interested in in engaging with me on interested in in engaging with me on that but all of these people I mean that but all of these people I mean that but all of these people I mean Candace Owens is welcome on my show Candace Owens is welcome on my show Candace Owens is welcome on my show anytime Don Jr's welcome on my show anytime Don Jr's welcome on my show anytime Don Jr's welcome on my show anytime it's been a decade since I had anytime it's been a decade since I had anytime it's been a decade since I had Ben Shapiro on he's welcome at anytime Ben Shapiro on he's welcome at anytime Ben Shapiro on he's welcome at anytime I'm glad to have these conversations and I'm glad to have these conversations and I'm glad to have these conversations and I think it's an important thing and also I think it's an important thing and also I think it's an important thing and also I wish that everybody was willing to I wish that everybody was willing to I wish that everybody was willing to have the conversations in good faith have the conversations in good faith have the conversations in good faith rather than as performance uh it's not rather than as performance uh it's not rather than as performance uh it's not even really performance perance art even really performance perance art even really performance perance art rather than being simply performative rather than being simply performative rather than being simply performative for an audience that you have in terms for an audience that you have in terms for an audience that you have in terms of your motivations do you see do you of your motivations do you see do you of your motivations do you see do you worry about the effects of something we worry about the effects of something we worry about the effects of something we spoke off spoke about offline with like spoke off spoke about offline with like spoke off spoke about offline with like the YouTube the YouTube the YouTube algorithm do you are you driven by the algorithm do you are you driven by the algorithm do you are you driven by the number of number of number of views your videos get or are you driven views your videos get or are you driven views your videos get or are you driven by something else so in my world I guess by something else so in my world I guess by something else so in my world I guess I would say the number of views that any I would say the number of views that any I would say the number of views that any platform generates is a metric that I platform generates is a metric that I platform generates is a metric that I can choose how to interpret I can choose can choose how to interpret I can choose can choose how to interpret I can choose to interpret it as I've created content to interpret it as I've created content to interpret it as I've created content that's interesting to people or I've that's interesting to people or I've that's interesting to people or I've created content that's really angering

created content that's really angering created content that's really angering people and that's why they're showing up people and that's why they're showing up people and that's why they're showing up they don't actually like it it's because they don't actually like it it's because they don't actually like it it's because they're angry or whatever else the case they're angry or whatever else the case they're angry or whatever else the case may be but it is true that there are may be but it is true that there are may be but it is true that there are algorithmic changes that can take place algorithmic changes that can take place algorithmic changes that can take place there something happened in early there something happened in early there something happened in early January that affected Us on YouTube or January that affected Us on YouTube or January that affected Us on YouTube or there are periods on Tik Tok where you there are periods on Tik Tok where you there are periods on Tik Tok where you can tell we're doing all the same things can tell we're doing all the same things can tell we're doing all the same things something has happened and then you something has happened and then you something has happened and then you never usually figure out what it is so never usually figure out what it is so never usually figure out what it is so for me it's sort of just like a general for me it's sort of just like a general for me it's sort of just like a general tool to see what is the level of tool to see what is the level of tool to see what is the level of interest in what I'm doing and are the interest in what I'm doing and are the interest in what I'm doing and are the numbers so out of whack with what I numbers so out of whack with what I numbers so out of whack with what I would expect that I should look into would expect that I should look into would expect that I should look into whether something deeper is happening whether something deeper is happening whether something deeper is happening has there been some change to to an has there been some change to to an has there been some change to to an algorithm or whatever the case may be I algorithm or whatever the case may be I algorithm or whatever the case may be I had a debate once with someone who had a debate once with someone who had a debate once with someone who accused me of using clickbait to accused me of using clickbait to accused me of using clickbait to generate views and we had a really generate views and we had a really generate views and we had a really interesting conversation where I said interesting conversation where I said interesting conversation where I said tell me really what you mean by that is tell me really what you mean by that is tell me really what you mean by that is your argu your argu your argu that I'm using titles that don't that I'm using titles that don't that I'm using titles that don't actually represent what's in the video actually represent what's in the video actually represent what's in the video no what's in the title is in the video I no what's in the title is in the video I no what's in the title is in the video I go okay so it's not that the title is go okay so it's not that the title is go okay so it's not that the title is dishonest are you saying saying I'm dishonest are you saying saying I'm dishonest are you saying saying I'm deliberately picking titles that will deliberately picking titles that will deliberately picking titles that will Garner a larger audience and they said Garner a larger audience and they said Garner a larger audience and they said yeah that's kind of what I mean and I yeah that's kind of what I mean and I yeah that's kind of what I mean and I said isn't that kind of what we're all said isn't that kind of what we're all said isn't that kind of what we're all doing the alternative would be choosing doing the alternative would be choosing doing the alternative would be choosing titles to generate a smaller audience titles to generate a smaller audience titles to generate a smaller audience which seems like a real kind of waste of which seems like a real kind of waste of which seems like a real kind of waste of time so I'm trying to navigate and play time so I'm trying to navigate and play time so I'm trying to navigate and play play the game in a way that's play the game in a way that's play the game in a way that's comfortable but use the metrics more as comfortable but use the metrics more as comfortable but use the metrics more as a tool than as something to obsess over a tool than as something to obsess over a tool than as something to obsess over nevertheless the metrics are what they nevertheless the metrics are what they nevertheless the metrics are what they are and that they are able to uh affect

are and that they are able to uh affect are and that they are able to uh affect your your your psyche it's very difficult which is why psyche it's very difficult which is why psyche it's very difficult which is why I have a Chrome extension that hides all I have a Chrome extension that hides all I have a Chrome extension that hides all the views and all that on YouTube uh for the views and all that on YouTube uh for the views and all that on YouTube uh for me uh it's difficult not to let it me uh it's difficult not to let it me uh it's difficult not to let it affect how you think about affect how you think about affect how you think about ideas so maybe you're extensive ideas so maybe you're extensive ideas so maybe you're extensive exploration of a particular topic like exploration of a particular topic like exploration of a particular topic like healthcare generated very few healthcare generated very few healthcare generated very few views it's difficult for you to still views it's difficult for you to still views it's difficult for you to still care about care about care about Healthcare there's some aspect of the Healthcare there's some aspect of the Healthcare there's some aspect of the human mind that human mind that human mind that starts uh being affected by those views starts uh being affected by those views starts uh being affected by those views and I think that's a really dangerous and I think that's a really dangerous and I think that's a really dangerous Thing mo mostly it's it's um probably Thing mo mostly it's it's um probably Thing mo mostly it's it's um probably beneficial because it probably makes you beneficial because it probably makes you beneficial because it probably makes you a better presenter if if you do care a better presenter if if you do care a better presenter if if you do care about a topic a lot you become more about a topic a lot you become more about a topic a lot you become more charismatic more um you learn sort of in charismatic more um you learn sort of in charismatic more um you learn sort of in a Jimmy Mr Beast way how to present the a Jimmy Mr Beast way how to present the a Jimmy Mr Beast way how to present the ideas better uh but it also can affect ideas better uh but it also can affect ideas better uh but it also can affect which topics you choose to cover what which topics you choose to cover what which topics you choose to cover what you choose to think about those topics you choose to think about those topics you choose to think about those topics uh the audience capture those topics and uh the audience capture those topics and uh the audience capture those topics and that's a really scary effect I I'm I'm that's a really scary effect I I'm I'm that's a really scary effect I I'm I'm really worried about my own mind in that really worried about my own mind in that really worried about my own mind in that so I run from that so I run from that so I run from that aggressively one of the things that I aggressively one of the things that I aggressively one of the things that I include in My overall approaches I don't include in My overall approaches I don't include in My overall approaches I don't think about any One Clip I think about think about any One Clip I think about think about any One Clip I think about an entire show or a week of shows or a an entire show or a week of shows or a an entire show or a week of shows or a month of shows month of shows month of shows and so it's less about does any One Clip and so it's less about does any One Clip and so it's less about does any One Clip do well my view going in is I'm going to do well my view going in is I'm going to do well my view going in is I'm going to do stuff that won't do that well but I do stuff that won't do that well but I do stuff that won't do that well but I think it's really important to do and I think it's really important to do and I think it's really important to do and I want to make it part of my show and so

want to make it part of my show and so want to make it part of my show and so when I did a clip with 10 ideas for when I did a clip with 10 ideas for when I did a clip with 10 ideas for reducing gun violence I know that that's reducing gun violence I know that that's reducing gun violence I know that that's not going to get 500,000 or a million not going to get 500,000 or a million not going to get 500,000 or a million views I know it's just not going to and views I know it's just not going to and views I know it's just not going to and the first day it'll get 12,000 and I'll the first day it'll get 12,000 and I'll the first day it'll get 12,000 and I'll go I don't care that's that's fine go I don't care that's that's fine go I don't care that's that's fine there's there's a group of people in my there's there's a group of people in my there's there's a group of people in my audience that values this stuff and and audience that values this stuff and and audience that values this stuff and and I want to keep doing this stuff I'll end I want to keep doing this stuff I'll end I want to keep doing this stuff I'll end up surprised sometime and two weeks up surprised sometime and two weeks up surprised sometime and two weeks later has 150,000 views because it later has 150,000 views because it later has 150,000 views because it started being shared great but I don't started being shared great but I don't started being shared great but I don't go into it thinking these all need to be go into it thinking these all need to be go into it thinking these all need to be home runs by that metric I always go in home runs by that metric I always go in home runs by that metric I always go in saying I want to put out a diversity of saying I want to put out a diversity of saying I want to put out a diversity of content including stuff that is less content including stuff that is less content including stuff that is less titillating and salacious but is titillating and salacious but is titillating and salacious but is important to do it's more researched Etc important to do it's more researched Etc important to do it's more researched Etc and so that's the way I try to resist and so that's the way I try to resist and so that's the way I try to resist exactly what you're talking about and I exactly what you're talking about and I exactly what you're talking about and I think you have to probably know yourself think you have to probably know yourself think you have to probably know yourself like for me metrics I just like numbers like for me metrics I just like numbers like for me metrics I just like numbers too much and for me metrics do affect me too much and for me metrics do affect me too much and for me metrics do affect me this is why I don't pay attention at all this is why I don't pay attention at all this is why I don't pay attention at all like I can't um I would love to hire like I can't um I would love to hire like I can't um I would love to hire somebody in the team who cares cuz we somebody in the team who cares cuz we somebody in the team who cares cuz we currently have I folks who just all of currently have I folks who just all of currently have I folks who just all of us just don't care um because he us just don't care um because he us just don't care um because he probably is good to care enough to kind probably is good to care enough to kind probably is good to care enough to kind of just do good thumbnails and this kind of just do good thumbnails and this kind of just do good thumbnails and this kind of stuff to to to pay attention but to of stuff to to to pay attention but to of stuff to to to pay attention but to me personally I just find inner peace me personally I just find inner peace me personally I just find inner peace and focus if I don't think about the and focus if I don't think about the and focus if I don't think about the numbers at all because I find myself um numbers at all because I find myself um numbers at all because I find myself um I just remember a long time ago when I I just remember a long time ago when I I just remember a long time ago when I started a podcast I started a podcast I started a podcast I would think that I failed if it didn't would think that I failed if it didn't would think that I failed if it didn't do well like if I didn't celebrate the do well like if I didn't celebrate the do well like if I didn't celebrate the person well enough I didn't do a good

person well enough I didn't do a good person well enough I didn't do a good job enough of a conversation well that's job enough of a conversation well that's job enough of a conversation well that's not necessarily at all what that means not necessarily at all what that means not necessarily at all what that means it's it's hard not to like this is tough it's it's hard not to like this is tough it's it's hard not to like this is tough stuff I mean yeah I know exactly what stuff I mean yeah I know exactly what stuff I mean yeah I know exactly what you're saying and part of it you're saying and part of it you're saying and part of it is H I mean it's it starts in my you is H I mean it's it starts in my you is H I mean it's it starts in my you have a little bit of a different have a little bit of a different have a little bit of a different situation than me because you're doing situation than me because you're doing situation than me because you're doing long form conversations with people and long form conversations with people and long form conversations with people and the prep is a little bit different one the prep is a little bit different one the prep is a little bit different one of the things in my space because I'm of the things in my space because I'm of the things in my space because I'm reacting mostly to what's going on in reacting mostly to what's going on in reacting mostly to what's going on in the news and then also picking topics to the news and then also picking topics to the news and then also picking topics to dive into it a little bit more deeply is dive into it a little bit more deeply is dive into it a little bit more deeply is I have very little control over the news I have very little control over the news I have very little control over the news cycle and there is a me a metam metric cycle and there is a me a metam metric cycle and there is a me a metam metric or a macrom metric that affects me that or a macrom metric that affects me that or a macrom metric that affects me that will quadruple my audience and then take will quadruple my audience and then take will quadruple my audience and then take 75% of it away which is the seasonality 75% of it away which is the seasonality 75% of it away which is the seasonality of election Cycles yeah and the first of election Cycles yeah and the first of election Cycles yeah and the first few election Cycles very tough because I few election Cycles very tough because I few election Cycles very tough because I go it's it's October I'm like at this go it's it's October I'm like at this go it's it's October I'm like at this rate we're going to have 20 million rate we're going to have 20 million rate we're going to have 20 million subscribers by next these numbers are subscribers by next these numbers are subscribers by next these numbers are unbelievable and then it's January 30th unbelievable and then it's January 30th unbelievable and then it's January 30th the inauguration is over the debate is the inauguration is over the debate is the inauguration is over the debate is about the debt ceiling and nothing's about the debt ceiling and nothing's about the debt ceiling and nothing's going on and I go nobody's watching my going on and I go nobody's watching my going on and I go nobody's watching my content this I must have I must have content this I must have I must have content this I must have I must have forgotten to upload a like something forgotten to upload a like something forgotten to upload a like something must beong it's completely beyond my must beong it's completely beyond my must beong it's completely beyond my control so I just and I think part of control so I just and I think part of control so I just and I think part of what you're saying is I try to focus on what you're saying is I try to focus on what you're saying is I try to focus on the things I control and understand the things I control and understand the things I control and understand those that I really have no control over those that I really have no control over those that I really have no control over whatsoever and try not to worry about whatsoever and try not to worry about whatsoever and try not to worry about them and try to do the things that make them and try to do the things that make them and try to do the things that make you happy at the end of the day you you happy at the end of the day you you happy at the end of the day you mentioned RFK the guy you met what do

mentioned RFK the guy you met what do mentioned RFK the guy you met what do you think about uh some of the other you think about uh some of the other you think about uh some of the other candidates outside of Joe Biden in the candidates outside of Joe Biden in the candidates outside of Joe Biden in the in the Democratic party RFK Jr what what in the Democratic party RFK Jr what what in the Democratic party RFK Jr what what do you think of him as a candidate I've do you think of him as a candidate I've do you think of him as a candidate I've met him we once had dinner and we have a met him we once had dinner and we have a met him we once had dinner and we have a number of friends in common which is number of friends in common which is number of friends in common which is what makes this a little more Awkward what makes this a little more Awkward what makes this a little more Awkward but I think his campaign is basically but I think his campaign is basically but I think his campaign is basically sort of like a chaos candidacy to raise sort of like a chaos candidacy to raise sort of like a chaos candidacy to raise awareness and maybe raise money either awareness and maybe raise money either awareness and maybe raise money either for his book or his antivaccine for his book or his antivaccine for his book or his antivaccine organization children's defense fund I organization children's defense fund I organization children's defense fund I believe it's called I think there's some believe it's called I think there's some believe it's called I think there's some reporting that Steve Bannon really liked reporting that Steve Bannon really liked reporting that Steve Bannon really liked the idea of him running as a Democrat the idea of him running as a Democrat the idea of him running as a Democrat again to just generate chaos I don't again to just generate chaos I don't again to just generate chaos I don't find it super interesting I don't find find it super interesting I don't find find it super interesting I don't find it worthy of that much discussion uh it worthy of that much discussion uh it worthy of that much discussion uh smart guy smart guy smart guy nice guy has been doing antivaccine work nice guy has been doing antivaccine work nice guy has been doing antivaccine work that I don't find particularly inspiring that I don't find particularly inspiring that I don't find particularly inspiring so it's not just anti covid vaccine it's so it's not just anti covid vaccine it's so it's not just anti covid vaccine it's more broader than that he's been in that more broader than that he's been in that more broader than that he's been in that space long before the covid vaccines space long before the covid vaccines space long before the covid vaccines yeah yeah I don't find it super yeah yeah I don't find it super yeah yeah I don't find it super interesting well he also wrote the book interesting well he also wrote the book interesting well he also wrote the book uh the real Anthony fouchy is that the uh the real Anthony fouchy is that the uh the real Anthony fouchy is that the name of the book did he write that name of the book did he write that name of the book did he write that that's I didn't I I don't know that's that's I didn't I I don't know that's that's I didn't I I don't know that's I'm not sure about that I'm aware of I'm not sure about that I'm aware of I'm not sure about that I'm aware of that book I didn't know he wrote it I that book I didn't know he wrote it I that book I didn't know he wrote it I think I but it's been a uh it's been on think I but it's been a uh it's been on think I but it's been a uh it's been on my reading list to get uh I've been my reading list to get uh I've been my reading list to get uh I've been trying to get a good balanced reading trying to get a good balanced reading trying to get a good balanced reading list about uh the co pandemic to list about uh the co pandemic to list about uh the co pandemic to understand what the hell happened and um understand what the hell happened and um understand what the hell happened and um anytime I start to try to go into that anytime I start to try to go into that anytime I start to try to go into that place it just I'm exhausted by it well

place it just I'm exhausted by it well place it just I'm exhausted by it well it's interesting to me that you wouldn't it's interesting to me that you wouldn't it's interesting to me that you wouldn't wait longer before delving into those wait longer before delving into those wait longer before delving into those books to have maybe a more clear books to have maybe a more clear books to have maybe a more clear hindsight I but I think this is a pretty hindsight I but I think this is a pretty hindsight I but I think this is a pretty good time you you don't think so like good time you you don't think so like good time you you don't think so like this is uh it depends on your goals if this is uh it depends on your goals if this is uh it depends on your goals if you're thinking of it as a historical you're thinking of it as a historical you're thinking of it as a historical event yes you should probably wait event yes you should probably wait event yes you should probably wait longer but if you're thinking about like longer but if you're thinking about like longer but if you're thinking about like understanding what is broken about our understanding what is broken about our understanding what is broken about our system that we respond to so system that we respond to so system that we respond to so poorly that there was so much division poorly that there was so much division poorly that there was so much division what is broken about our political what is broken about our political what is broken about our political system that um it didn't unite us it system that um it didn't unite us it system that um it didn't unite us it divided us who's to blame there's divided us who's to blame there's divided us who's to blame there's probably a lot of different narratives probably a lot of different narratives probably a lot of different narratives but I feel like the more you learn about but I feel like the more you learn about but I feel like the more you learn about this the the better you can understand I this the the better you can understand I this the the better you can understand I read um I'm just Vladimir Putin I read read um I'm just Vladimir Putin I read read um I'm just Vladimir Putin I read like five biographies already maybe like five biographies already maybe like five biographies already maybe more um just it helps to really more um just it helps to really more um just it helps to really understand the people involved the understand the people involved the understand the people involved the organizations involved I don't know organizations involved I don't know organizations involved I don't know everything from the scientists to the everything from the scientists to the everything from the scientists to the political leaders um it felt like the political leaders um it felt like the political leaders um it felt like the blog posts and the tweets didn't quite blog posts and the tweets didn't quite blog posts and the tweets didn't quite Capt they didn't quite cap no what one Capt they didn't quite cap no what one Capt they didn't quite cap no what one of the things I read a ton I don't read of the things I read a ton I don't read of the things I read a ton I don't read any like modern political books so I any like modern political books so I any like modern political books so I don't read the Memoirs of elected don't read the Memoirs of elected don't read the Memoirs of elected official official official I don't read any I just feel like I get I don't read any I just feel like I get I don't read any I just feel like I get enough of it in my job so my reading enough of it in my job so my reading enough of it in my job so my reading list is just other things it's history list is just other things it's history list is just other things it's history it's narrative non-fiction economics Etc it's narrative non-fiction economics Etc it's narrative non-fiction economics Etc and that's my bias because I'm so and that's my bias because I'm so and that's my bias because I'm so overloaded with a lot of the stuff overloaded with a lot of the stuff overloaded with a lot of the stuff you're talking about I haven't read any you're talking about I haven't read any you're talking about I haven't read any of Obama's books I didn't read John

of Obama's books I didn't read John of Obama's books I didn't read John Bolton's book or you know I I don't read Bolton's book or you know I I don't read Bolton's book or you know I I don't read any of that stuff although I'm sure any of that stuff although I'm sure any of that stuff although I'm sure there there is value to be gleaned from there there is value to be gleaned from there there is value to be gleaned from it what about the other candidate that it what about the other candidate that it what about the other candidate that uh according to the subre credit and as uh according to the subre credit and as uh according to the subre credit and as you mentioned you've criticized a little you mentioned you've criticized a little you mentioned you've criticized a little bit uh Maryanne Williamson do you think bit uh Maryanne Williamson do you think bit uh Maryanne Williamson do you think what are the pros and cons of her as a what are the pros and cons of her as a what are the pros and cons of her as a candidate this is another area where candidate this is another area where candidate this is another area where many in my audience really are angry many in my audience really are angry many in my audience really are angry with me yeah I don't find her candidacy with me yeah I don't find her candidacy with me yeah I don't find her candidacy super interesting I'll tell you the pros super interesting I'll tell you the pros super interesting I'll tell you the pros and the cons as I see them I do think and the cons as I see them I do think and the cons as I see them I do think that we have elected officials in the US that we have elected officials in the US that we have elected officials in the US particularly presidents from a really particularly presidents from a really particularly presidents from a really narrow range of backgrounds so it's narrow range of backgrounds so it's narrow range of backgrounds so it's lawyers and uh sometimes business people lawyers and uh sometimes business people lawyers and uh sometimes business people very very often lawyers I would I think very very often lawyers I would I think very very often lawyers I would I think we would benefit from a much greater we would benefit from a much greater we would benefit from a much greater diversity of backgrounds and I once said diversity of backgrounds and I once said diversity of backgrounds and I once said and that would include uh people from and that would include uh people from and that would include uh people from education people from the Science World education people from the Science World education people from the Science World people with backgrounds maybe running people with backgrounds maybe running people with backgrounds maybe running nonprofits Etc now Maryann Williamson nonprofits Etc now Maryann Williamson nonprofits Etc now Maryann Williamson did I guess at one point run some kind did I guess at one point run some kind did I guess at one point run some kind of small nonprofit and some in my of small nonprofit and some in my of small nonprofit and some in my audience thought that credential alone audience thought that credential alone audience thought that credential alone would make me fall head over heels in would make me fall head over heels in would make me fall head over heels in love with the idea of a maranne love with the idea of a maranne love with the idea of a maranne candidacy I've interviewed for her it's candidacy I've interviewed for her it's candidacy I've interviewed for her it's just not for me is the way I like to say just not for me is the way I like to say just not for me is the way I like to say it it's the the background of the woo it it's the the background of the woo it it's the the background of the woo woo type stuff MH is a bit off-putting woo type stuff MH is a bit off-putting woo type stuff MH is a bit off-putting to me I understand that someone with to me I understand that someone with to me I understand that someone with literal Christian Bible beliefs that literal Christian Bible beliefs that literal Christian Bible beliefs that also I I don't like maybe I'm more also I I don't like maybe I'm more also I I don't like maybe I'm more willing to accept as most of our willing to accept as most of our willing to accept as most of our presidents of course have have had those

presidents of course have have had those presidents of course have have had those views because they're otherwise more views because they're otherwise more views because they're otherwise more qualified but some of the things that qualified but some of the things that qualified but some of the things that she says just strike me as I don't I she says just strike me as I don't I she says just strike me as I don't I just I just don't know I'll give you an just I just don't know I'll give you an just I just don't know I'll give you an example when she was on with Russell example when she was on with Russell example when she was on with Russell brand she said there's no such thing as brand she said there's no such thing as brand she said there's no such thing as clinical depression it just means clinical depression it just means clinical depression it just means someone in a clinic told you you have someone in a clinic told you you have someone in a clinic told you you have depression I don't believe that to be depression I don't believe that to be depression I don't believe that to be the case I think we have an the case I think we have an the case I think we have an understanding there's two types of understanding there's two types of understanding there's two types of depression there's like a genetic depression there's like a genetic depression there's like a genetic predisposition depression there's like a predisposition depression there's like a predisposition depression there's like a acute something's happening in my life acute something's happening in my life acute something's happening in my life temporary depression okay you know when temporary depression okay you know when temporary depression okay you know when she was asked about it recently she said she was asked about it recently she said she was asked about it recently she said I didn't mean it I was just trying to I didn't mean it I was just trying to I didn't mean it I was just trying to impress Russell impress Russell impress Russell Brand I don't know if I'm more bothered Brand I don't know if I'm more bothered Brand I don't know if I'm more bothered by the things first said or by the fact by the things first said or by the fact by the things first said or by the fact that she wanted to impress Russell Brand that she wanted to impress Russell Brand that she wanted to impress Russell Brand but it's just like it's just really not but it's just like it's just really not but it's just like it's just really not for me and I agree with her on we need for me and I agree with her on we need for me and I agree with her on we need to take the climate more seriously we to take the climate more seriously we to take the climate more seriously we need to expand access to heal I I I'm need to expand access to heal I I I'm need to expand access to heal I I I'm with all of that stuff now I want to say with all of that stuff now I want to say with all of that stuff now I want to say one other thing about this anybody who one other thing about this anybody who one other thing about this anybody who wants to run should run I am not wants to run should run I am not wants to run should run I am not suggesting there should be an suggesting there should be an suggesting there should be an uncontested primary for Joe Biden uncontested primary for Joe Biden uncontested primary for Joe Biden absolutely so you think it should be absolutely so you think it should be absolutely so you think it should be contested well what I mean by contested contested well what I mean by contested contested well what I mean by contested is so there's two parts to what we mean is so there's two parts to what we mean is so there's two parts to what we mean by contest will the DNC organize debates by contest will the DNC organize debates by contest will the DNC organize debates and we'll get to that in a second but and we'll get to that in a second but and we'll get to that in a second but should should anybody who's on the left should should anybody who's on the left should should anybody who's on the left get out of the way because Joe Biden is get out of the way because Joe Biden is get out of the way because Joe Biden is President and he's running for President and he's running for President and he's running for re-election absolutely not the question re-election absolutely not the question re-election absolutely not the question about should there be debates I would about should there be debates I would about should there be debates I would like there to be debates the DNC pretty like there to be debates the DNC pretty like there to be debates the DNC pretty clearly isn't going to organize them I

clearly isn't going to organize them I clearly isn't going to organize them I think if you did them you would have to think if you did them you would have to think if you did them you would have to say at what polling level do you qualify say at what polling level do you qualify say at what polling level do you qualify and I don't know exactly where you put and I don't know exactly where you put and I don't know exactly where you put that number but I think it would be a that number but I think it would be a that number but I think it would be a great thing to put Joe Biden on a stage great thing to put Joe Biden on a stage great thing to put Joe Biden on a stage age with if you can get what 6% 8% I'm age with if you can get what 6% 8% I'm age with if you can get what 6% 8% I'm not really sure what the number would be not really sure what the number would be not really sure what the number would be I'm totally all for that why is a set of I'm totally all for that why is a set of I'm totally all for that why is a set of candidates at least from my perspective candidates at least from my perspective candidates at least from my perspective so so so weak do you have do you have an weak do you have do you have an weak do you have do you have an understanding there's a lot of different understanding there's a lot of different understanding there's a lot of different answers to answers to answers to this one aspect to this which I think is this one aspect to this which I think is this one aspect to this which I think is more of a sociocultural thing which I've more of a sociocultural thing which I've more of a sociocultural thing which I've recently read about to some degree is recently read about to some degree is recently read about to some degree is the job actually turns off the people the job actually turns off the people the job actually turns off the people who would be best at it because of what who would be best at it because of what who would be best at it because of what you need to do to become president and you need to do to become president and you need to do to become president and it it it includes all but completely abandoning includes all but completely abandoning includes all but completely abandoning your existing day-to-day life job which your existing day-to-day life job which your existing day-to-day life job which you may depend on and family to some you may depend on and family to some you may depend on and family to some degree um it's horribly uh negative as degree um it's horribly uh negative as degree um it's horribly uh negative as we already talked about and at the end we already talked about and at the end we already talked about and at the end of all of that you either lose and then of all of that you either lose and then of all of that you either lose and then have to rebuild and maybe you're not in have to rebuild and maybe you're not in have to rebuild and maybe you're not in a position to be able to do that or you a position to be able to do that or you a position to be able to do that or you win and then now you've got four years win and then now you've got four years win and then now you've got four years of being one of the most hated people no of being one of the most hated people no of being one of the most hated people no matter how good a job you do so I think matter how good a job you do so I think matter how good a job you do so I think by its nature it turns off a lot of by its nature it turns off a lot of by its nature it turns off a lot of people that would otherwise be good um I people that would otherwise be good um I people that would otherwise be good um I also think that there's a lot of also think that there's a lot of also think that there's a lot of posturing from within the parties about posturing from within the parties about posturing from within the parties about well you might be good but it's not your well you might be good but it's not your well you might be good but it's not your time yet so you should wait and then time yet so you should wait and then time yet so you should wait and then let's talk about maybe a senate seat let's talk about maybe a senate seat let's talk about maybe a senate seat here and there so it's like it's like a here and there so it's like it's like a here and there so it's like it's like a company essentially and they're figuring company essentially and they're figuring company essentially and they're figuring out where they want to place people uh I out where they want to place people uh I out where they want to place people uh I think all of these things make it so we

think all of these things make it so we think all of these things make it so we end up with candidates most people end up with candidates most people end up with candidates most people aren't super thrilled with so it's aren't super thrilled with so it's aren't super thrilled with so it's difficult for somebody who's young or an difficult for somebody who's young or an difficult for somebody who's young or an outsider to uh to quickly outsider to uh to quickly outsider to uh to quickly become a candidate I think that that's become a candidate I think that that's become a candidate I think that that's true and I think also in a lot of ways true and I think also in a lot of ways true and I think also in a lot of ways it's just not I mean would you want to it's just not I mean would you want to it's just not I mean would you want to be president no I mean I can't be be president no I mean I can't be be president no I mean I can't be because I wasn't born in the US so it's because I wasn't born in the US so it's because I wasn't born in the US so it's easy for me to say but um if everyone easy for me to say but um if everyone easy for me to say but um if everyone says no Then we're get the people that says no Then we're get the people that says no Then we're get the people that we have no I understand that so I I we have no I understand that so I I we have no I understand that so I I would love to help somehow sure and I would love to help somehow sure and I would love to help somehow sure and I feel like there's not even a mechanism feel like there's not even a mechanism feel like there's not even a mechanism for helping except through the for helping except through the for helping except through the Democratic through the voting process Democratic through the voting process Democratic through the voting process but I'm just annoyed how little but I'm just annoyed how little but I'm just annoyed how little technology there is in the whole process technology there is in the whole process technology there is in the whole process how how little Innovation there is in how how little Innovation there is in how how little Innovation there is in the whole process all of this the sad the whole process all of this the sad the whole process all of this the sad thing is this is written about a lot thing is this is written about a lot thing is this is written about a lot which is there's this thing called which is there's this thing called which is there's this thing called political political political hobbyism and I think there's a good hobbyism and I think there's a good hobbyism and I think there's a good chance that some of the people in my chance that some of the people in my chance that some of the people in my audience are political hobbyists in the audience are political hobbyists in the audience are political hobbyists in the sense that they follow this stuff as sense that they follow this stuff as sense that they follow this stuff as entertainment to some degree and I've entertainment to some degree and I've entertainment to some degree and I've written a lot about how uh I've read a written a lot about how uh I've read a written a lot about how uh I've read a lot and talked a lot about how okay we lot and talked a lot about how okay we lot and talked a lot about how okay we vote every two years or every four years vote every two years or every four years vote every two years or every four years in our local elections Etc and then we in our local elections Etc and then we in our local elections Etc and then we think about politics all the time uh think about politics all the time uh think about politics all the time uh Neil Postman wrote about this in his Neil Postman wrote about this in his Neil Postman wrote about this in his book amusing ourselves to death but what book amusing ourselves to death but what book amusing ourselves to death but what are you actually going to do about the are you actually going to do about the are you actually going to do about the kids Starving in this country and the kids Starving in this country and the kids Starving in this country and the nuclear buildup in that country it's nuclear buildup in that country it's nuclear buildup in that country it's okay if everybody refocused their

okay if everybody refocused their okay if everybody refocused their attention on their immediate communities attention on their immediate communities attention on their immediate communities and that could mean any number it could and that could mean any number it could and that could mean any number it could mean the town or city you live in or it mean the town or city you live in or it mean the town or city you live in or it might mean um an athletic club or might mean um an athletic club or might mean um an athletic club or whatever if everybody this time they whatever if everybody this time they whatever if everybody this time they spent on political hobbyism they moved spent on political hobbyism they moved spent on political hobbyism they moved somewhere else which might put me out of somewhere else which might put me out of somewhere else which might put me out of a job that's okay I'm I'm willing to a job that's okay I'm I'm willing to a job that's okay I'm I'm willing to lose my job because I think it would be lose my job because I think it would be lose my job because I think it would be so beneficial then our our communities so beneficial then our our communities so beneficial then our our communities would just be that much better uh would just be that much better uh would just be that much better uh because you can actually affect change because you can actually affect change because you can actually affect change in a much more tangible way locally in a much more tangible way locally in a much more tangible way locally whether it's obvious people talk about whether it's obvious people talk about whether it's obvious people talk about potholes but other things as potholes but other things as potholes but other things as well yeah and I wish our system was more well yeah and I wish our system was more well yeah and I wish our system was more amendable to that kind of contribution amendable to that kind of contribution amendable to that kind of contribution hopefully through the digital space it hopefully through the digital space it hopefully through the digital space it would be uh let me ask you about on the would be uh let me ask you about on the would be uh let me ask you about on the Republican side Ron de santis what do Republican side Ron de santis what do Republican side Ron de santis what do you think of him as a candidate running you think of him as a candidate running you think of him as a candidate running against uh Donald Trump I think in the against uh Donald Trump I think in the against uh Donald Trump I think in the couple of weeks before our our couple of weeks before our our couple of weeks before our our discussion today his campaign which discussion today his campaign which discussion today his campaign which hasn't even started has sort of started hasn't even started has sort of started hasn't even started has sort of started to implode and this was something that I to implode and this was something that I to implode and this was something that I started thinking about in September started thinking about in September started thinking about in September October he really doesn't seem ready for October he really doesn't seem ready for October he really doesn't seem ready for prime time in the sense that just being prime time in the sense that just being prime time in the sense that just being confronted and confronted is not even confronted and confronted is not even confronted and confronted is not even the right word just being asked about the right word just being asked about the right word just being asked about uh some topics he didn't really seem to uh some topics he didn't really seem to uh some topics he didn't really seem to want to talk about he responded in such want to talk about he responded in such want to talk about he responded in such a sort of disproportionate unhinged way a sort of disproportionate unhinged way a sort of disproportionate unhinged way during his recent trip to Asia he was during his recent trip to Asia he was during his recent trip to Asia he was asked about why aren't you or why are asked about why aren't you or why are asked about why aren't you or why are you responding but in this weird way to you responding but in this weird way to you responding but in this weird way to Trump's attacks on you and he went into Trump's attacks on you and he went into Trump's attacks on you and he went into this weird bobblehead thing with a weird this weird bobblehead thing with a weird this weird bobblehead thing with a weird smile and something came out that didn't

smile and something came out that didn't smile and something came out that didn't make any sense and he sort of got mad at make any sense and he sort of got mad at make any sense and he sort of got mad at the reporter and it was just like if you the reporter and it was just like if you the reporter and it was just like if you can't handle that you can't be on a can't handle that you can't be on a can't handle that you can't be on a debate stage with Donald Trump and again debate stage with Donald Trump and again debate stage with Donald Trump and again for all my criticisms of trump the guy for all my criticisms of trump the guy for all my criticisms of trump the guy gets you on a debate stage he can make gets you on a debate stage he can make gets you on a debate stage he can make you look pretty silly he was recently you look pretty silly he was recently you look pretty silly he was recently asked about his role at Guantanamo Bay asked about his role at Guantanamo Bay asked about his role at Guantanamo Bay when he was um an officer in I forget when he was um an officer in I forget when he was um an officer in I forget which branch of the Armed Forces and he which branch of the Armed Forces and he which branch of the Armed Forces and he just sort of attacked the journalist just sort of attacked the journalist just sort of attacked the journalist asking the question and it it just asking the question and it it just asking the question and it it just looked very bad and there are looked very bad and there are looked very bad and there are increasingly big Republican donors who increasingly big Republican donors who increasingly big Republican donors who are not fans of trump and were sort of are not fans of trump and were sort of are not fans of trump and were sort of hoping to put their eggs in the Ronda hoping to put their eggs in the Ronda hoping to put their eggs in the Ronda santis basket who are saying this guy santis basket who are saying this guy santis basket who are saying this guy just doesn't have What It Takes I don't just doesn't have What It Takes I don't just doesn't have What It Takes I don't think he can do it so I don't know if think he can do it so I don't know if think he can do it so I don't know if Dan santis will be able to get away once Dan santis will be able to get away once Dan santis will be able to get away once you're polling 20-some like he is and you're polling 20-some like he is and you're polling 20-some like he is and you haven't even announced it's very you haven't even announced it's very you haven't even announced it's very attractive and he probably to some attractive and he probably to some attractive and he probably to some degree is thinking if I wait till 2028 I degree is thinking if I wait till 2028 I degree is thinking if I wait till 2028 I might not have this opportunity again might not have this opportunity again might not have this opportunity again but Trump's polling but Trump's polling but Trump's polling 5253 which means even if DeSantis gets 5253 which means even if DeSantis gets 5253 which means even if DeSantis gets all of the current non-trump vote he has all of the current non-trump vote he has all of the current non-trump vote he has to figure out how to take something more to figure out how to take something more to figure out how to take something more for Trump from Trump I I just don't know for Trump from Trump I I just don't know for Trump from Trump I I just don't know how he does it first of all the how he does it first of all the how he does it first of all the implosion aspect that that's part of the implosion aspect that that's part of the implosion aspect that that's part of the process isn't it you kind of implode a process isn't it you kind of implode a process isn't it you kind of implode a bunch of uh a bunch of times and then bunch of uh a bunch of times and then bunch of uh a bunch of times and then rebuild yourself and rebuild and because rebuild yourself and rebuild and because rebuild yourself and rebuild and because the new cycle kind of forgets it's the new cycle kind of forgets it's the new cycle kind of forgets it's possible the problem is if he the first possible the problem is if he the first possible the problem is if he the first debate is in August so that's only a few debate is in August so that's only a few debate is in August so that's only a few months away and the decision is going to months away and the decision is going to months away and the decision is going to have to be made pretty soon and unless have to be made pretty soon and unless have to be made pretty soon and unless he can get a new momentum going uh I

he can get a new momentum going uh I he can get a new momentum going uh I just don't know how he gets what he just don't know how he gets what he just don't know how he gets what he needs in order to really have a shot so needs in order to really have a shot so needs in order to really have a shot so would anyone else run against Donald would anyone else run against Donald would anyone else run against Donald Trump it's very tough right now I mean Trump it's very tough right now I mean Trump it's very tough right now I mean there are other people R running there's there are other people R running there's there are other people R running there's this guy Vic ramaswami who's running uh this guy Vic ramaswami who's running uh this guy Vic ramaswami who's running uh Nikki Haley is running her campaign Nikki Haley is running her campaign Nikki Haley is running her campaign basically Dead on Arrival um Trump basically Dead on Arrival um Trump basically Dead on Arrival um Trump actually does better in polls the more actually does better in polls the more actually does better in polls the more people run when when it's just him and people run when when it's just him and people run when when it's just him and DeSantis that's the best scenario for DeSantis that's the best scenario for DeSantis that's the best scenario for Dan santis it's not great for Dan santis Dan santis it's not great for Dan santis Dan santis it's not great for Dan santis but it's it's uh certainly better um but but it's it's uh certainly better um but but it's it's uh certainly better um but I think the difficulty is this is a I think the difficulty is this is a I think the difficulty is this is a question for Republicans to figure out question for Republicans to figure out question for Republicans to figure out the people who rightly recognized in the people who rightly recognized in the people who rightly recognized in 2016 that this guy is not good for their 2016 that this guy is not good for their 2016 that this guy is not good for their party um still believe this guy is not party um still believe this guy is not party um still believe this guy is not good for their party but many of them good for their party but many of them good for their party but many of them recognize that most of the voters are recognize that most of the voters are recognize that most of the voters are still behind still behind still behind him you can always say it's early his him you can always say it's early his him you can always say it's early his polling doesn't really mean anything polling doesn't really mean anything polling doesn't really mean anything anything could happen something major anything could happen something major anything could happen something major would have to happen for Trump to lose would have to happen for Trump to lose would have to happen for Trump to lose that lead if he got more uh if he was that lead if he got more uh if he was that lead if he got more uh if he was arrested two more times and had more arrested two more times and had more arrested two more times and had more indictments and it just became like this indictments and it just became like this indictments and it just became like this guy can't even campaign because he's so guy can't even campaign because he's so guy can't even campaign because he's so busy going from court to court maybe busy going from court to court maybe busy going from court to court maybe that would make a difference it's really that would make a difference it's really that would make a difference it's really tough to tough to tough to imagine you said that there are three imagine you said that there are three imagine you said that there are three categories of people who vote Republican categories of people who vote Republican categories of people who vote Republican and uh that Trump introduced the fourth and uh that Trump introduced the fourth and uh that Trump introduced the fourth one uh can you go through the four one uh can you go through the four one uh can you go through the four categories sure so you've got like your categories sure so you've got like your categories sure so you've got like your pro business low tax Republicans these pro business low tax Republicans these pro business low tax Republicans these are mostly people like Mitt Romney Mitt are mostly people like Mitt Romney Mitt are mostly people like Mitt Romney Mitt Romney has a bit of the social Romney has a bit of the social Romney has a bit of the social conservatism as well he's Mormon and conservatism as well he's Mormon and conservatism as well he's Mormon and that's there but Mitt Romney primarily that's there but Mitt Romney primarily that's there but Mitt Romney primarily particularly as a Northeast sort of particularly as a Northeast sort of particularly as a Northeast sort of Republican I mean I know Utah but

Republican I mean I know Utah but Republican I mean I know Utah but governor of Massachusetts he is like a governor of Massachusetts he is like a governor of Massachusetts he is like a low tax Pro business business type guy low tax Pro business business type guy low tax Pro business business type guy um you've got your libertarian type um you've got your libertarian type um you've got your libertarian type Republicans who are primarily about uh Republicans who are primarily about uh Republicans who are primarily about uh freedom and liberty often they are freedom and liberty often they are freedom and liberty often they are actually more socially liberal where actually more socially liberal where actually more socially liberal where they go I don't care about gay marriage they go I don't care about gay marriage they go I don't care about gay marriage liberal you know I don't care so much liberal you know I don't care so much liberal you know I don't care so much about abortion um and that overlapped a about abortion um and that overlapped a about abortion um and that overlapped a little bit with the Tea Party Movement little bit with the Tea Party Movement little bit with the Tea Party Movement in 2010 although tea party did have a in 2010 although tea party did have a in 2010 although tea party did have a religious component but sort of like the religious component but sort of like the religious component but sort of like the libertarian freedom-- minded folks and libertarian freedom-- minded folks and libertarian freedom-- minded folks and then the religious conservatives people then the religious conservatives people then the religious conservatives people that support candidates like Josh Holly that support candidates like Josh Holly that support candidates like Josh Holly or uh Ted Cruz ET where their big thing or uh Ted Cruz ET where their big thing or uh Ted Cruz ET where their big thing are social issues often they actually are social issues often they actually are social issues often they actually want uh Christianity being civil want uh Christianity being civil want uh Christianity being civil government they don't want separation of government they don't want separation of government they don't want separation of church and state those are traditionally church and state those are traditionally church and state those are traditionally the three Republican groups the one that the three Republican groups the one that the three Republican groups the one that Trump introduced was people who just Trump introduced was people who just Trump introduced was people who just didn't really pay attention to politics didn't really pay attention to politics didn't really pay attention to politics but either followed celebrity or had but either followed celebrity or had but either followed celebrity or had grievances that they didn't yet have a grievances that they didn't yet have a grievances that they didn't yet have a scapegoat for um and were sort of right scapegoat for um and were sort of right scapegoat for um and were sort of right leaning culturally even though they leaning culturally even though they leaning culturally even though they didn't attribute that to republicanism didn't attribute that to republicanism didn't attribute that to republicanism and Trump was able to bring them into and Trump was able to bring them into and Trump was able to bring them into politics often for the first time as politics often for the first time as politics often for the first time as voters they could be part of any of voters they could be part of any of voters they could be part of any of those three groups if they get more into those three groups if they get more into those three groups if they get more into politics or kind of be their own thing politics or kind of be their own thing politics or kind of be their own thing but they're more kind of like Cult of but they're more kind of like Cult of but they're more kind of like Cult of Personality I'm here for Trump types did Personality I'm here for Trump types did Personality I'm here for Trump types did it have to do anything about the culture it have to do anything about the culture it have to do anything about the culture wars and the the identity politics all wars and the the identity politics all wars and the the identity politics all that kind of that kind of that kind of stuff yeah I mean so in 2016 when Trump stuff yeah I mean so in 2016 when Trump stuff yeah I mean so in 2016 when Trump mobilized them those weren't really mobilized them those weren't really mobilized them those weren't really issues the way they are now so I think

issues the way they are now so I think issues the way they are now so I think at the time that time it certainly was at the time that time it certainly was at the time that time it certainly was not a factor what was the mobilizing not a factor what was the mobilizing not a factor what was the mobilizing issue I don't it was it just issue I don't it was it just issue I don't it was it just anti-hillary in 2016 there he did a good anti-hillary in 2016 there he did a good anti-hillary in 2016 there he did a good job on anti-hillary but a lot of it was job on anti-hillary but a lot of it was job on anti-hillary but a lot of it was identifying real economic problems wage identifying real economic problems wage identifying real economic problems wage depression lack of jobs in parts of the depression lack of jobs in parts of the depression lack of jobs in parts of the country you know Ohio and Indiana Trump country you know Ohio and Indiana Trump country you know Ohio and Indiana Trump rightly identified like we have an issue rightly identified like we have an issue rightly identified like we have an issue here we don't have enough here we don't have enough here we don't have enough entrepreneurship Etc um but there was entrepreneurship Etc um but there was entrepreneurship Etc um but there was also a lot of scapegoating that was you also a lot of scapegoating that was you also a lot of scapegoating that was you know China and people coming through the know China and people coming through the know China and people coming through the US Mexico border were popular scapegoats US Mexico border were popular scapegoats US Mexico border were popular scapegoats for a lot of those problems this gets us for a lot of those problems this gets us for a lot of those problems this gets us kind of to populism populism is a kind of to populism populism is a kind of to populism populism is a rhetoric and populism as a rhetoric rhetoric and populism as a rhetoric rhetoric and populism as a rhetoric doesn't necessarily come with particular doesn't necessarily come with particular doesn't necessarily come with particular policies you can be a populist uh a user policies you can be a populist uh a user policies you can be a populist uh a user of populist rhetoric and propose of populist rhetoric and propose of populist rhetoric and propose solutions that would be more aligned solutions that would be more aligned solutions that would be more aligned with Bernie or Tucker with Bernie or Tucker with Bernie or Tucker Carlson populists will often identify Carlson populists will often identify Carlson populists will often identify the plight of the middle class the the plight of the middle class the the plight of the middle class the difference would be Bernie will say difference would be Bernie will say difference would be Bernie will say we've got to put some restrictions on we've got to put some restrictions on we've got to put some restrictions on how much uh billionaires can make and how much uh billionaires can make and how much uh billionaires can make and we've got to reinvest in these social we've got to reinvest in these social we've got to reinvest in these social programs Tucker will say BLM taking your programs Tucker will say BLM taking your programs Tucker will say BLM taking your house and a a brown person from Mexico house and a a brown person from Mexico house and a a brown person from Mexico taking your job are what we need to deal taking your job are what we need to deal taking your job are what we need to deal with so the the populist rhetoric can with so the the populist rhetoric can with so the the populist rhetoric can lend it lend itself to very different lend it lend itself to very different lend it lend itself to very different policy and Trump used that very policy and Trump used that very policy and Trump used that very effectively in 2016 why do you think effectively in 2016 why do you think effectively in 2016 why do you think Hillary Clinton Hillary Clinton Hillary Clinton was hated as intens as she was by

was hated as intens as she was by was hated as intens as she was by certain % of the population it feels certain % of the population it feels certain % of the population it feels like U that's the first election I like U that's the first election I like U that's the first election I witness where there's a lot of witness where there's a lot of witness where there's a lot of hate maybe I'm hate maybe I'm hate maybe I'm misremembering I don't remember misremembering I don't remember misremembering I don't remember Obama I don't remember the degree of Obama I don't remember the degree of Obama I don't remember the degree of hate there was a conspiracy theories hate there was a conspiracy theories hate there was a conspiracy theories that he wasn't born in this country but that he wasn't born in this country but that he wasn't born in this country but I don't remember hate towards Obama I don't remember hate towards Obama I don't remember hate towards Obama record death threats under Obama more record death threats under Obama more record death threats under Obama more than any previous president right than any previous president right than any previous president right towards who towards him towards him yeah towards who towards him towards him yeah towards who towards him towards him yeah uh do you mean more hate between voters uh do you mean more hate between voters uh do you mean more hate between voters or between voters between voters but or between voters between voters but or between voters between voters but like that's I guess what I was speaking like that's I guess what I was speaking like that's I guess what I was speaking to but that hate was directed towards um to but that hate was directed towards um to but that hate was directed towards um The Narrative the thread that connected The Narrative the thread that connected The Narrative the thread that connected all of that in 2016 was Hillary Clinton all of that in 2016 was Hillary Clinton all of that in 2016 was Hillary Clinton few different few different few different things um and I'm not ranking these things um and I'm not ranking these things um and I'm not ranking these these are just all things that come to these are just all things that come to these are just all things that come to mind one is Hillary mind one is Hillary mind one is Hillary Clinton had been around in the political Clinton had been around in the political Clinton had been around in the political space for a long time from her time as space for a long time from her time as space for a long time from her time as first lady first lady first lady through a senator Secretary of State Etc through a senator Secretary of State Etc through a senator Secretary of State Etc so I think that there was enough time so I think that there was enough time so I think that there was enough time for different groups to develop an for different groups to develop an for different groups to develop an antipathy towards her for different antipathy towards her for different antipathy towards her for different reasons so time um reasons so time um reasons so time um secondly Trump's branding of her as secondly Trump's branding of her as secondly Trump's branding of her as crooked was very effective yeah where crooked was very effective yeah where crooked was very effective yeah where there were so many people de demanding there were so many people de demanding there were so many people de demanding that she be imprisoned if you ask them that she be imprisoned if you ask them that she be imprisoned if you ask them what is the crime they don't know but what is the crime they don't know but what is the crime they don't know but she should definitely be locked up that

she should definitely be locked up that she should definitely be locked up that became a a very big thing the email became a a very big thing the email became a a very big thing the email story as it were and uh James Comey story as it were and uh James Comey story as it were and uh James Comey doing a second public event about that doing a second public event about that doing a second public event about that investigation even though there wasn't investigation even though there wasn't investigation even though there wasn't any actual news about it just doing a any actual news about it just doing a any actual news about it just doing a second event about it at the last minute second event about it at the last minute second event about it at the last minute I think hurt her and also generated some I think hurt her and also generated some I think hurt her and also generated some hate and I don't find Hillary Clinton to hate and I don't find Hillary Clinton to hate and I don't find Hillary Clinton to be particularly likable although I voted be particularly likable although I voted be particularly likable although I voted for her I thought she was the better for her I thought she was the better for her I thought she was the better candidate and I think that there are candidate and I think that there are candidate and I think that there are others who also didn't find her others who also didn't find her others who also didn't find her particularly likable that those are a particularly likable that those are a particularly likable that those are a lot of impediments to becoming president lot of impediments to becoming president lot of impediments to becoming president I was trying to understand why there's I was trying to understand why there's I was trying to understand why there's so many conspiracy theories about so many conspiracy theories about so many conspiracy theories about clintons in general Bill Clinton and uh clintons in general Bill Clinton and uh clintons in general Bill Clinton and uh Hillary Clinton and I maybe I'm not Hillary Clinton and I maybe I'm not Hillary Clinton and I maybe I'm not researched well enough the of the why of researched well enough the of the why of researched well enough the of the why of it uh the why of it actually the extent it uh the why of it actually the extent it uh the why of it actually the extent of the conspiracy theories the sort of of the conspiracy theories the sort of of the conspiracy theories the sort of the the conspiracy theories that they've the the conspiracy theories that they've the the conspiracy theories that they've killed a lot of people this kind of killed a lot of people this kind of killed a lot of people this kind of stuff it's hard for me to speak to them stuff it's hard for me to speak to them stuff it's hard for me to speak to them because I'm aware that they exist but because I'm aware that they exist but because I'm aware that they exist but I'm not an expert in them because they I'm not an expert in them because they I'm not an expert in them because they seem so obviously baseless to the degree seem so obviously baseless to the degree seem so obviously baseless to the degree that I've researched them a little bit that I've researched them a little bit that I've researched them a little bit and then I move on and uh you know it's and then I move on and uh you know it's and then I move on and uh you know it's been years since I've looked at this been years since I've looked at this been years since I've looked at this stuff I know there's the Seth Rich one stuff I know there's the Seth Rich one stuff I know there's the Seth Rich one and there's the Clinton Body Count one I and there's the Clinton Body Count one I and there's the Clinton Body Count one I think there's one connected to Epstein think there's one connected to Epstein think there's one connected to Epstein if I recall correctly there there's all if I recall correctly there there's all if I recall correctly there there's all sorts of these different ones um without sorts of these different ones um without sorts of these different ones um without speaking to any of them specifically speaking to any of them specifically speaking to any of them specifically because I'm not the expert on Clinton because I'm not the expert on Clinton because I'm not the expert on Clinton conspiracies uh it does seem as though conspiracies uh it does seem as though conspiracies uh it does seem as though this stuff for so long has generated an this stuff for so long has generated an this stuff for so long has generated an audience I mean I remember in the

audience I mean I remember in the audience I mean I remember in the supermarket when Bill Clinton was supermarket when Bill Clinton was supermarket when Bill Clinton was President at the checkout seeing the President at the checkout seeing the President at the checkout seeing the tabloids and there were stuff about tabloids and there were stuff about tabloids and there were stuff about Hillary birthed an alien baby and you Hillary birthed an alien baby and you Hillary birthed an alien baby and you know all the it seems like it's been know all the it seems like it's been know all the it seems like it's been titillating to people for a very long titillating to people for a very long titillating to people for a very long time well another question from Reddit time well another question from Reddit time well another question from Reddit speaking of aliens uh I would be curious speaking of aliens uh I would be curious speaking of aliens uh I would be curious to hear David's views on conspiracies to hear David's views on conspiracies to hear David's views on conspiracies and conspiracy theories the extent to and conspiracy theories the extent to and conspiracy theories the extent to which real conspiracies happen and why which real conspiracies happen and why which real conspiracies happen and why conspiracies that have little evidence conspiracies that have little evidence conspiracies that have little evidence behind them managed to be so compelling behind them managed to be so compelling behind them managed to be so compelling to people regardless also please bring to people regardless also please bring to people regardless also please bring up aliens and uaps okay where where do up aliens and uaps okay where where do up aliens and uaps okay where where do we start the conspiracy what uh so what we start the conspiracy what uh so what we start the conspiracy what uh so what are in general as a person who uh thinks are in general as a person who uh thinks are in general as a person who uh thinks about politics uh thinks about this about politics uh thinks about this about politics uh thinks about this world like where do conspiracy theories world like where do conspiracy theories world like where do conspiracy theories fit in for you I think there have been fit in for you I think there have been fit in for you I think there have been conspiracies and by conspiracies I'm conspiracies and by conspiracies I'm conspiracies and by conspiracies I'm using a colloquial definition which is using a colloquial definition which is using a colloquial definition which is basically uh individuals working basically uh individuals working basically uh individuals working together together together to um in a clandestine way uh impact or to um in a clandestine way uh impact or to um in a clandestine way uh impact or affect some kind of event or affect some kind of event or affect some kind of event or phenomenon uh very very broadly I mean phenomenon uh very very broadly I mean phenomenon uh very very broadly I mean certainly that those things have certainly that those things have certainly that those things have happened um the to pick to jump around happened um the to pick to jump around happened um the to pick to jump around to some of the things that were in there to some of the things that were in there to some of the things that were in there I think the reason that conspiracy I think the reason that conspiracy I think the reason that conspiracy theories are so compelling is that it's theories are so compelling is that it's theories are so compelling is that it's really tough for a lot of people to really tough for a lot of people to really tough for a lot of people to accept there are random events accept there are random events accept there are random events not predictable specifically at a

not predictable specifically at a not predictable specifically at a stochastic level we might be able to stochastic level we might be able to stochastic level we might be able to predict them but specifically predict them but specifically predict them but specifically unpredictable bad events in many unpredictable bad events in many unpredictable bad events in many ways I could be the victim of one or you ways I could be the victim of one or you ways I could be the victim of one or you could or my family could that's really could or my family could that's really could or my family could that's really scary to a lot of people understandably scary to a lot of people understandably scary to a lot of people understandably so and for some people it's less scary so and for some people it's less scary so and for some people it's less scary and more soothing in a way to say there and more soothing in a way to say there and more soothing in a way to say there aren't really random events like this aren't really random events like this aren't really random events like this somebody planned it and if we had just somebody planned it and if we had just somebody planned it and if we had just known who planned it it just could have known who planned it it just could have known who planned it it just could have been stopped because we would have known been stopped because we would have known been stopped because we would have known exactly when that's just a psychological exactly when that's just a psychological exactly when that's just a psychological level easier to accept for people and I level easier to accept for people and I level easier to accept for people and I get that to some degree because listen get that to some degree because listen get that to some degree because listen it's it's not the most exciting thing it's it's not the most exciting thing it's it's not the most exciting thing that everything can just be going fine that everything can just be going fine that everything can just be going fine and something absolutely horrible and something absolutely horrible and something absolutely horrible happens and kills who knows some number happens and kills who knows some number happens and kills who knows some number of people or so I think that's the the of people or so I think that's the the of people or so I think that's the the biggest attractor to a lot of these biggest attractor to a lot of these biggest attractor to a lot of these conspiracy theories it doesn't apply to conspiracy theories it doesn't apply to conspiracy theories it doesn't apply to all of them though but yeah but there's all of them though but yeah but there's all of them though but yeah but there's still kind of a base on understanding of still kind of a base on understanding of still kind of a base on understanding of human nature where human nature where human nature where people some people are greedy and want people some people are greedy and want people some people are greedy and want power and are corrupted by power so power and are corrupted by power so power and are corrupted by power so there's uh kind of these compelling there's uh kind of these compelling there's uh kind of these compelling narratives that narratives that narratives that stick that stick that stick that um I don't know the vaccine is a is a um I don't know the vaccine is a is a um I don't know the vaccine is a is a opportunity for a powerful billionaire opportunity for a powerful billionaire opportunity for a powerful billionaire to implant chips into you so he can to implant chips into you so he can to implant chips into you so he can control you further right it doesn't control you further right it doesn't control you further right it doesn't seem what do I want to say it's like for seem what do I want to say it's like for seem what do I want to say it's like for some reason that doesn't seem as crazy

some reason that doesn't seem as crazy some reason that doesn't seem as crazy as it as it as it should cuz you think like maybe should cuz you think like maybe should cuz you think like maybe Hollywood contributes to that but you Hollywood contributes to that but you Hollywood contributes to that but you think yeah you could imagine an evil think yeah you could imagine an evil think yeah you could imagine an evil person a person that wants more control person a person that wants more control person a person that wants more control more more more power um and is also at the same time power um and is also at the same time power um and is also at the same time able to convince themselves as history able to convince themselves as history able to convince themselves as history shows that they actually have the best shows that they actually have the best shows that they actually have the best interest of the populace in mind that interest of the populace in mind that interest of the populace in mind that they're trying to do good for the world they're trying to do good for the world they're trying to do good for the world so they do evil while trying to do good so they do evil while trying to do good so they do evil while trying to do good and you can kind of imagine it so it's and you can kind of imagine it so it's and you can kind of imagine it so it's like why like why like why not and uh you listen to people in power not and uh you listen to people in power not and uh you listen to people in power uh authorities they kind of look and uh authorities they kind of look and uh authorities they kind of look and sound Shady you know like the the the sound Shady you know like the the the sound Shady you know like the the the transparency especially the older ones I transparency especially the older ones I transparency especially the older ones I think younger folks are better at being think younger folks are better at being think younger folks are better at being like real and transparent and just like like real and transparent and just like like real and transparent and just like revealing their flaws and the basic revealing their flaws and the basic revealing their flaws and the basic Humanity but people that are a little Humanity but people that are a little Humanity but people that are a little bit older in the positions of power bit older in the positions of power bit older in the positions of power they're more polished they're more like they're more polished they're more like they're more polished they're more like that it feels like they're presenting a that it feels like they're presenting a that it feels like they're presenting a narrative where the truth is hidden in narrative where the truth is hidden in narrative where the truth is hidden in the shadows so I don't think there's the shadows so I don't think there's the shadows so I don't think there's anything wrong with anything wrong with anything wrong with suspecting maybe a public figure isn't suspecting maybe a public figure isn't suspecting maybe a public figure isn't giving me the full story yeah totally giving me the full story yeah totally giving me the full story yeah totally reasonable thing to question um I don't reasonable thing to question um I don't reasonable thing to question um I don't think there's anything wrong with think there's anything wrong with think there's anything wrong with exploring a lot of these different exploring a lot of these different exploring a lot of these different things I think the problem becomes and I things I think the problem becomes and I things I think the problem becomes and I know you've talked about this in so many know you've talked about this in so many know you've talked about this in so many different ways with other guests the different ways with other guests the different ways with other guests the problem becomes when we lose a shared problem becomes when we lose a shared problem becomes when we lose a shared understanding of how we would assess understanding of how we would assess understanding of how we would assess whether any of these things are true and whether any of these things are true and whether any of these things are true and then both alleged evidence and an

then both alleged evidence and an then both alleged evidence and an absence of evidence both become absence of evidence both become absence of evidence both become supportive of the conspiracy theory supportive of the conspiracy theory supportive of the conspiracy theory because if there's bad evidence you because if there's bad evidence you because if there's bad evidence you manipulate and say it's good evidence if manipulate and say it's good evidence if manipulate and say it's good evidence if there's no evidence you say the evidence there's no evidence you say the evidence there's no evidence you say the evidence was obviously hidden by the people who was obviously hidden by the people who was obviously hidden by the people who carried out the thing or whatever so carried out the thing or whatever so carried out the thing or whatever so unless we can have a shared unless we can have a shared unless we can have a shared understanding of how we would determine understanding of how we would determine understanding of how we would determine what's true these are common what's true these are common what's true these are common conversations often between atheists and conversations often between atheists and conversations often between atheists and religious folks how can we deter like is religious folks how can we deter like is religious folks how can we deter like is is my faith in something or my desire is my faith in something or my desire is my faith in something or my desire for something to be true a good way to for something to be true a good way to for something to be true a good way to evaluate whether it is true they're evaluate whether it is true they're evaluate whether it is true they're really similar questions well let me ask really similar questions well let me ask really similar questions well let me ask you about Trump on that front about the you about Trump on that front about the you about Trump on that front about the election 2020 election and maybe the election 2020 election and maybe the election 2020 election and maybe the better question is about January 6th do better question is about January 6th do better question is about January 6th do you think January 6th was a big deal I you think January 6th was a big deal I you think January 6th was a big deal I do how big of a deal compared to do how big of a deal compared to do how big of a deal compared to what uh Civil what uh Civil what uh Civil War I think it was less a big deal than War I think it was less a big deal than War I think it was less a big deal than the Civil War okay no I mean so well the Civil War okay no I mean so well the Civil War okay no I mean so well that it's a very interesting thing that it's a very interesting thing that it's a very interesting thing though right because we have not only though right because we have not only though right because we have not only the the event that's that's clever the the event that's that's clever the the event that's that's clever actually it's not only the event but actually it's not only the event but actually it's not only the event but it's what led up to it and what has it's what led up to it and what has it's what led up to it and what has happened since and did it change what is happened since and did it change what is happened since and did it change what is considered on the considered on the considered on the table that citizens can should or might table that citizens can should or might table that citizens can should or might do if they disagree with the results of do if they disagree with the results of do if they disagree with the results of an election so I think that there are an election so I think that there are an election so I think that there are further reaching con consequences than further reaching con consequences than further reaching con consequences than just was the 6-hour period on January just was the 6-hour period on January just was the 6-hour period on January 6th a bigger or smaller deal than the 6th a bigger or smaller deal than the 6th a bigger or smaller deal than the Civil War and there's so much wrapped up

Civil War and there's so much wrapped up Civil War and there's so much wrapped up into it um many conspiracy theories into it um many conspiracy theories into it um many conspiracy theories flowed from January 6th as well uh 60 flowed from January 6th as well uh 60 flowed from January 6th as well uh 60 Minutes recently featured a guy named Minutes recently featured a guy named Minutes recently featured a guy named Ray EPS who was targeted by some on the Ray EPS who was targeted by some on the Ray EPS who was targeted by some on the right um claiming that he was an right um claiming that he was an right um claiming that he was an instigator or an agent of the FBI or instigator or an agent of the FBI or instigator or an agent of the FBI or something along those lines uh there something along those lines uh there something along those lines uh there were people claiming that no real it was were people claiming that no real it was were people claiming that no real it was like a no true Scotsman sort of thing like a no true Scotsman sort of thing like a no true Scotsman sort of thing like Trump supporters wouldn't Riot so like Trump supporters wouldn't Riot so like Trump supporters wouldn't Riot so by definition it must have been by definition it must have been by definition it must have been antifa uh police let him in or police antifa uh police let him in or police antifa uh police let him in or police were you know all these different things were you know all these different things were you know all these different things I think it was a big deal in a lot of I think it was a big deal in a lot of I think it was a big deal in a lot of ways because it completely made us have ways because it completely made us have ways because it completely made us have to go back to the top to say okay what to go back to the top to say okay what to go back to the top to say okay what are the parameters of valid discussion are the parameters of valid discussion are the parameters of valid discussion and activism in the United States but and activism in the United States but and activism in the United States but what aspect of the January 6 was bad for what aspect of the January 6 was bad for what aspect of the January 6 was bad for you you you well I mean like if you're thinking from well I mean like if you're thinking from well I mean like if you're thinking from a big philosophical political a big philosophical political a big philosophical political perspective so presumably the number of perspective so presumably the number of perspective so presumably the number of people hurt and the number of people who people hurt and the number of people who people hurt and the number of people who died is not the only metric to consider died is not the only metric to consider died is not the only metric to consider here absolutely I think the sum total of here absolutely I think the sum total of here absolutely I think the sum total of what it means about how the United what it means about how the United what it means about how the United States operates is what's most States operates is what's most States operates is what's most concerning and I'll kind of just like concerning and I'll kind of just like concerning and I'll kind of just like flesh it out a little bit flesh it out a little bit flesh it out a little bit so summer of 2020 Trump's already saying so summer of 2020 Trump's already saying so summer of 2020 Trump's already saying they're going to cheat now the polling they're going to cheat now the polling they're going to cheat now the polling is close but it shows that Biden's in a is close but it shows that Biden's in a is close but it shows that Biden's in a good position people aren't happy with

good position people aren't happy with good position people aren't happy with Trump any reasonable person would look Trump any reasonable person would look Trump any reasonable person would look and say it's going to be close but Biden and say it's going to be close but Biden and say it's going to be close but Biden certainly it wouldn't be a crazy thing certainly it wouldn't be a crazy thing certainly it wouldn't be a crazy thing if Biden won Trump's already saying if Biden won Trump's already saying if Biden won Trump's already saying they're going to cheat with mailin they're going to cheat with mailin they're going to cheat with mailin ballots or they're going to cheat with ballots or they're going to cheat with ballots or they're going to cheat with early voting or they're going to cheat early voting or they're going to cheat early voting or they're going to cheat with machines or we should do only in with machines or we should do only in with machines or we should do only in person or whatever else the case may be person or whatever else the case may be person or whatever else the case may be we have the election um we knew in we have the election um we knew in we have the election um we knew in certain States how the vote count was certain States how the vote count was certain States how the vote count was going to go some states stop counting at going to go some states stop counting at going to go some states stop counting at 10 p.m. some states count all of the 10 p.m. some states count all of the 10 p.m. some states count all of the mail and stuff up front some don't mail and stuff up front some don't mail and stuff up front some don't everything was completely predictable uh everything was completely predictable uh everything was completely predictable uh at 2 am Trump comes out and says I won at 2 am Trump comes out and says I won at 2 am Trump comes out and says I won okay but but where where are you getting okay but but where where are you getting okay but but where where are you getting that sir as he claims people always that sir as he claims people always that sir as he claims people always refer to him where are you getting that refer to him where are you getting that refer to him where are you getting that and with that statement immediately we and with that statement immediately we and with that statement immediately we see that there is a large portion of see that there is a large portion of see that there is a large portion of this country that either is unable or this country that either is unable or this country that either is unable or unwilling to say wait a second the unwilling to say wait a second the unwilling to say wait a second the polling all said this was a real polling all said this was a real polling all said this was a real possibility the counting schedules are possibility the counting schedules are possibility the counting schedules are all being adhered to all but Trump won all being adhered to all but Trump won all being adhered to all but Trump won that doesn't make any sense that doesn't that doesn't make any sense that doesn't that doesn't make any sense that doesn't happen it builds people are donating happen it builds people are donating happen it builds people are donating Millions to Trump for supposed audits Millions to Trump for supposed audits Millions to Trump for supposed audits which nobody can Define and lawsuits which nobody can Define and lawsuits which nobody can Define and lawsuits which go nowhere and it builds and which go nowhere and it builds and which go nowhere and it builds and builds and builds and we have a total builds and builds and we have a total builds and builds and we have a total separation from a factual reality separation from a factual reality separation from a factual reality there's no reason to think by December there's no reason to think by December there's no reason to think by December 1st right give it 3 weeks to look 1st right give it 3 weeks to look 1st right give it 3 weeks to look through some of the stuff by December through some of the stuff by December through some of the stuff by December 1st there's no reasonable case to be 1st there's no reasonable case to be 1st there's no reasonable case to be made that Trump actually won but it made that Trump actually won but it made that Trump actually won but it doesn't end there it goes into maybe we doesn't end there it goes into maybe we doesn't end there it goes into maybe we can just like send different electors

can just like send different electors can just like send different electors even though Biden won Arizona Let's just even though Biden won Arizona Let's just even though Biden won Arizona Let's just like send I don't remember how many like send I don't remember how many like send I don't remember how many electors it is in Arizona Let's just electors it is in Arizona Let's just electors it is in Arizona Let's just like send Republican electors to say we like send Republican electors to say we like send Republican electors to say we we vote for Trump but that's that's not we vote for Trump but that's that's not we vote for Trump but that's that's not democracy that's not the way the system democracy that's not the way the system democracy that's not the way the system works let's make sure we're ready ready works let's make sure we're ready ready works let's make sure we're ready ready for what exactly and then it builds to for what exactly and then it builds to for what exactly and then it builds to maybe my Pence can just like prevent maybe my Pence can just like prevent maybe my Pence can just like prevent Biden from being president or maybe we Biden from being president or maybe we Biden from being president or maybe we can just interfere in this other way and can just interfere in this other way and can just interfere in this other way and then it gets to let's break into the then it gets to let's break into the then it gets to let's break into the capital it's the height of saying we no capital it's the height of saying we no capital it's the height of saying we no longer comport ourselves attached to longer comport ourselves attached to longer comport ourselves attached to what is a verifiable factual reality and what is a verifiable factual reality and what is a verifiable factual reality and when we no longer do that we're also when we no longer do that we're also when we no longer do that we're also willing to commit crimes property crimes willing to commit crimes property crimes willing to commit crimes property crimes violent crimes okay to different degrees violent crimes okay to different degrees violent crimes okay to different degrees in order to try to have something other in order to try to have something other in order to try to have something other than democracy it wouldn't be than democracy it wouldn't be than democracy it wouldn't be democracy if any of those things had democracy if any of those things had democracy if any of those things had happen yeah I I I think it's not the happen yeah I I I think it's not the happen yeah I I I think it's not the height of it I think there is still a height of it I think there is still a height of it I think there is still a case to be made that that uh did not case to be made that that uh did not case to be made that that uh did not leave the realm of leave the realm of leave the realm of protest protest protest versus um a violation of the principles versus um a violation of the principles versus um a violation of the principles of democracy so to me the height of what of democracy so to me the height of what of democracy so to me the height of what could happen on January 6th is uh if could happen on January 6th is uh if could happen on January 6th is uh if Donald Trump was much better executive Donald Trump was much better executive Donald Trump was much better executive uh he could take control of the military uh he could take control of the military uh he could take control of the military if it had if it had if it had succeeded no not even succeeded the succeeded no not even succeeded the succeeded no not even succeeded the attempt would have been more um attempt would have been more um attempt would have been more um empowered I understand so like the way

empowered I understand so like the way empowered I understand so like the way not to bring up Hitler every other word not to bring up Hitler every other word not to bring up Hitler every other word which is something your subet also told which is something your subet also told which is something your subet also told me not to do okay he's kind of an me not to do okay he's kind of an me not to do okay he's kind of an important figure it's interesting to important figure it's interesting to important figure it's interesting to study that moment in history because it study that moment in history because it study that moment in history because it reveals so much about human nature and reveals so much about human nature and reveals so much about human nature and that all of us are capable of Good and that all of us are capable of Good and that all of us are capable of Good and Evil but thank you dear sub reditor or Evil but thank you dear sub reditor or Evil but thank you dear sub reditor or redditor for your contribution to the redditor for your contribution to the redditor for your contribution to the conversation I will keep bringing up conversation I will keep bringing up conversation I will keep bringing up Hitler and the Third Reich and I'll keep Hitler and the Third Reich and I'll keep Hitler and the Third Reich and I'll keep bringing up Stalin there's so much to bringing up Stalin there's so much to bringing up Stalin there's so much to learn from that anyway learn from that anyway learn from that anyway the um an effective practice the um an effective practice the um an effective practice authoritarian could roll the tanks out authoritarian could roll the tanks out authoritarian could roll the tanks out into the city into the city into the city streets to uh establish streets to uh establish streets to uh establish order and in so doing pause the process order and in so doing pause the process order and in so doing pause the process of of of democracy as opposed to a few protesters democracy as opposed to a few protesters democracy as opposed to a few protesters is breaking in to a questionably uh is breaking in to a questionably uh is breaking in to a questionably uh protected building I agree that what protected building I agree that what protected building I agree that what you're saying would be worse I don't you're saying would be worse I don't you're saying would be worse I don't want to use it to minimize what the want to use it to minimize what the want to use it to minimize what the protesters were intent on doing they protesters were intent on doing they protesters were intent on doing they failed fortunately oh but to you the failed fortunately oh but to you the failed fortunately oh but to you the intention was there well the intention intention was there well the intention intention was there well the intention was Trump should remain president yeah was Trump should remain president yeah was Trump should remain president yeah that's the intention and to what length that's the intention and to what length that's the intention and to what length they would have been willing to go if by they would have been willing to go if by they would have been willing to go if by the evening early evening they they you the evening early evening they they you the evening early evening they they you know were sort of like forced out I know were sort of like forced out I know were sort of like forced out I don't know I agree with you that Trump don't know I agree with you that Trump don't know I agree with you that Trump trying to use the military trying to use the military trying to use the military uh would absolutely be worse you know uh would absolutely be worse you know uh would absolutely be worse you know there's these reports that he tried to there's these reports that he tried to there's these reports that he tried to seize voting machines which is kind of seize voting machines which is kind of seize voting machines which is kind of funny because it's like once you get the funny because it's like once you get the funny because it's like once you get the machine at maral Lago what do you do machine at maral Lago what do you do machine at maral Lago what do you do with it exactly I don't know there's a with it exactly I don't know there's a with it exactly I don't know there's a like a comedic element to Trump sitting like a comedic element to Trump sitting like a comedic element to Trump sitting around with voting machines but he did around with voting machines but he did around with voting machines but he did float trying to do some other things I

float trying to do some other things I float trying to do some other things I don't believe there's reporting that he don't believe there's reporting that he don't believe there's reporting that he actually tried to use the military I actually tried to use the military I actually tried to use the military I wonder to what degree this opened the wonder to what degree this opened the wonder to what degree this opened the door to further things like this with door to further things like this with door to further things like this with other uh other candidates on you know other uh other candidates on you know other uh other candidates on you know even uh in the Democratic party also uh even uh in the Democratic party also uh even uh in the Democratic party also uh do you think there'll be more and more do you think there'll be more and more do you think there'll be more and more questioning of the election results questioning of the election results questioning of the election results there has been already it's uh very there has been already it's uh very there has been already it's uh very clearly The Playbook Carrie Lake lost clearly The Playbook Carrie Lake lost clearly The Playbook Carrie Lake lost she ran for governor in Arizona 2022 she she ran for governor in Arizona 2022 she she ran for governor in Arizona 2022 she lost what I mean by that is her opponent lost what I mean by that is her opponent lost what I mean by that is her opponent received more votes it's like very clear received more votes it's like very clear received more votes it's like very clear what it means that she lost she insists what it means that she lost she insists what it means that she lost she insists to this day that she won to this day she to this day that she won to this day she to this day that she won to this day she did the same grift Trump did about did the same grift Trump did about did the same grift Trump did about donate we've got a case we won in the donate we've got a case we won in the donate we've got a case we won in the case case case you didn't win they just set a court dat you didn't win they just set a court dat you didn't win they just set a court dat like that's not that's not you know lies like that's not that's not you know lies like that's not that's not you know lies upon grift upon lies so they they did it upon grift upon lies so they they did it upon grift upon lies so they they did it then um it is I I it's extraordinarily then um it is I I it's extraordinarily then um it is I I it's extraordinarily saddening but it seems like this is now saddening but it seems like this is now saddening but it seems like this is now going to be part of the Playbook do you going to be part of the Playbook do you going to be part of the Playbook do you think people on the left will start think people on the left will start think people on the left will start doing it uh I don't have a reason to doing it uh I don't have a reason to doing it uh I don't have a reason to believe that that is going to happen but believe that that is going to happen but believe that that is going to happen but I'm not going to say it never could I'm not going to say it never could I'm not going to say it never could Absol it certainly could people on the Absol it certainly could people on the Absol it certainly could people on the left could start using it as a tactic left could start using it as a tactic left could start using it as a tactic right now there's not a sign that that's right now there's not a sign that that's right now there's not a sign that that's going to happen but it's certainly good going to happen but it's certainly good going to happen but it's certainly good my expectation is and I'm not a betting my expectation is and I'm not a betting my expectation is and I'm not a betting man but I would bet money if Joe Biden man but I would bet money if Joe Biden man but I would bet money if Joe Biden loses in November of loses in November of loses in November of 2024 he will say I lost he will call the 2024 he will say I lost he will call the 2024 he will say I lost he will call the winner he will concede and he will leave winner he will concede and he will leave winner he will concede and he will leave the White House in an orderly fashion the White House in an orderly fashion the White House in an orderly fashion you don't think there'll be claims of a you don't think there'll be claims of a you don't think there'll be claims of a hacked election the the ability to hack

hacked election the the ability to hack hacked election the the ability to hack elections is elections is elections is becoming uh more and more effective with becoming uh more and more effective with becoming uh more and more effective with the developments on the artificial the developments on the artificial the developments on the artificial intelligence side the difficulty is intelligence side the difficulty is intelligence side the difficulty is you're basically saying will something you're basically saying will something you're basically saying will something happen without me knowing anything about happen without me knowing anything about happen without me knowing anything about the election imagine there really was the election imagine there really was the election imagine there really was evidence of a hacked election then I evidence of a hacked election then I evidence of a hacked election then I would want those claims to be made but would want those claims to be made but would want those claims to be made but the way elections have gone in the past the way elections have gone in the past the way elections have gone in the past I I don't expect that that's a claim I I don't expect that that's a claim I I don't expect that that's a claim that would be made no speaking of that would be made no speaking of that would be made no speaking of evidence of things uh that were evidence of things uh that were evidence of things uh that were claimed what do you think about the claimed what do you think about the claimed what do you think about the hunter Biden laptop or as you tweeted hunter Biden laptop or as you tweeted hunter Biden laptop or as you tweeted the laptop from the laptop from the laptop from Hell the laptop from Hell TM right Hell the laptop from Hell TM right Hell the laptop from Hell TM right uh to what degree was this uh laptop uh to what degree was this uh laptop uh to what degree was this uh laptop story important and to what degree was story important and to what degree was story important and to what degree was it not at this point I have said many it not at this point I have said many it not at this point I have said many times if there is any reason to believe times if there is any reason to believe times if there is any reason to believe that Hunter Biden Joe Biden Naomi Biden that Hunter Biden Joe Biden Naomi Biden that Hunter Biden Joe Biden Naomi Biden Jill Biden Hillary Obama Doug M if Jill Biden Hillary Obama Doug M if Jill Biden Hillary Obama Doug M if there's any evidence any of them there's any evidence any of them there's any evidence any of them committed a crime they should be committed a crime they should be committed a crime they should be investigated they should be charged and investigated they should be charged and investigated they should be charged and they should be be tried period the they should be be tried period the they should be be tried period the hunter Biden laptop thing has been hunter Biden laptop thing has been hunter Biden laptop thing has been floating around for so long and we still floating around for so long and we still floating around for so long and we still have zero have zero have zero actual uh pieces of evidence of any actual uh pieces of evidence of any actual uh pieces of evidence of any crime particularly involving Joe Biden crime particularly involving Joe Biden crime particularly involving Joe Biden there's the claim from some that there's the claim from some that there's the claim from some that references to the big guy are about Joe

references to the big guy are about Joe references to the big guy are about Joe Biden getting 10% for some elicit it's Biden getting 10% for some elicit it's Biden getting 10% for some elicit it's been years they've been saying this they been years they've been saying this they been years they've been saying this they they've not been able to bring forward they've not been able to bring forward they've not been able to bring forward any evidence on it so my um assessment any evidence on it so my um assessment any evidence on it so my um assessment of the hunter Biden laptop is it seems of the hunter Biden laptop is it seems of the hunter Biden laptop is it seems to mostly be a story about nude images to mostly be a story about nude images to mostly be a story about nude images released without someone's consent which released without someone's consent which released without someone's consent which is illegal in Most states and violates is illegal in Most states and violates is illegal in Most states and violates Twitter's own policies that's the main Twitter's own policies that's the main Twitter's own policies that's the main story to me beyond that I don't know how story to me beyond that I don't know how story to me beyond that I don't know how many people have a copy of this hard many people have a copy of this hard many people have a copy of this hard drive at this point Rudy had it Tucker drive at this point Rudy had it Tucker drive at this point Rudy had it Tucker do you remember when Tucker this this is do you remember when Tucker this this is do you remember when Tucker this this is this is unbelievable this is unbelievable this is unbelievable Tucker said that he mailed Tucker said that he mailed Tucker said that he mailed himself uh a copy a USB stick yeah and himself uh a copy a USB stick yeah and himself uh a copy a USB stick yeah and it got lost in the mail you you have the it got lost in the mail you you have the it got lost in the mail you you have the mother load proving the criminality of mother load proving the criminality of mother load proving the criminality of Joe and Hunter Biden and I don't you Joe and Hunter Biden and I don't you Joe and Hunter Biden and I don't you just dropped it off with a stamp and it just dropped it off with a stamp and it just dropped it off with a stamp and it got lost in the mail you don't have a got lost in the mail you don't have a got lost in the mail you don't have a backup copy you don't so I'm ready for backup copy you don't so I'm ready for backup copy you don't so I'm ready for the evidence to come forward Hunter the evidence to come forward Hunter the evidence to come forward Hunter Biden has nothing to do with Joe Biden's Biden has nothing to do with Joe Biden's Biden has nothing to do with Joe Biden's Administration but as a person who if he Administration but as a person who if he Administration but as a person who if he committed a crime charge him investigate committed a crime charge him investigate committed a crime charge him investigate him whatever but it's it's getting it's him whatever but it's it's getting it's him whatever but it's it's getting it's almost getting satirical the degree to almost getting satirical the degree to almost getting satirical the degree to which they're talking about the hunter which they're talking about the hunter which they're talking about the hunter Biden laptop uh what do you think about Biden laptop uh what do you think about Biden laptop uh what do you think about the the social media aspect of this that the the social media aspect of this that the the social media aspect of this that that story got that story got that story got censored and what do you think about censored and what do you think about censored and what do you think about censorship in General on social media censorship in General on social media censorship in General on social media that that story during an important time that that story during an important time that that story during an important time in the electoral process got censored so in the electoral process got censored so in the electoral process got censored so I uh as a matter of principle I think we

I uh as a matter of principle I think we I uh as a matter of principle I think we have to Define what we mean by have to Define what we mean by have to Define what we mean by censorship but I'm against censorship censorship but I'm against censorship censorship but I'm against censorship short of illegal content I guess is the short of illegal content I guess is the short of illegal content I guess is the way I would put it I do respect a way I would put it I do respect a way I would put it I do respect a company's right to have terms of service company's right to have terms of service company's right to have terms of service and to enforce them as long as they're and to enforce them as long as they're and to enforce them as long as they're not illegal if Twitter were to say we not illegal if Twitter were to say we not illegal if Twitter were to say we don't publish content from Jewish people don't publish content from Jewish people don't publish content from Jewish people okay now we've got a problem on our okay now we've got a problem on our okay now we've got a problem on our hands but um what what is dubious to me hands but um what what is dubious to me hands but um what what is dubious to me is the claim that had people been able is the claim that had people been able is the claim that had people been able to see Hunter Biden's genitals they to see Hunter Biden's genitals they to see Hunter Biden's genitals they would have voted for Trump which I know would have voted for Trump which I know would have voted for Trump which I know it's like David you're you're making it's like David you're you're making it's like David you're you're making light of and but at the end of the day light of and but at the end of the day light of and but at the end of the day what exactly is the claim that if you what exactly is the claim that if you what exactly is the claim that if you had known more about Hunter Biden I had known more about Hunter Biden I had known more about Hunter Biden I guess allegedly hiring prostitutes and guess allegedly hiring prostitutes and guess allegedly hiring prostitutes and and having a drug problem and seeing and having a drug problem and seeing and having a drug problem and seeing pictures you wouldn't have voted for Joe pictures you wouldn't have voted for Joe pictures you wouldn't have voted for Joe Biden I mean I know me as a voter I Biden I mean I know me as a voter I Biden I mean I know me as a voter I don't feel that way I think uh it's less don't feel that way I think uh it's less don't feel that way I think uh it's less about the content of the story and about about the content of the story and about about the content of the story and about the actions of u a social media company the actions of u a social media company the actions of u a social media company to control what what you see and what to control what what you see and what to control what what you see and what you don't see so you could imagine a you don't see so you could imagine a you don't see so you could imagine a social media Media company like Facebook social media Media company like Facebook social media Media company like Facebook and Twitter making the same kind of and Twitter making the same kind of and Twitter making the same kind of decision about a more impactful story decision about a more impactful story decision about a more impactful story than uh a few dickpics on a laptop well than uh a few dickpics on a laptop well than uh a few dickpics on a laptop well I think if that happened then my view I think if that happened then my view I think if that happened then my view might be different right but I do my my might be different right but I do my my might be different right but I do my my general view though on the hunter Biden general view though on the hunter Biden general view though on the hunter Biden story is had the Articles not contained story is had the Articles not contained story is had the Articles not contained those images that were illegal in many those images that were illegal in many those images that were illegal in many states and violated Twitter's policies I states and violated Twitter's policies I states and violated Twitter's policies I would say publish it absolutely I don't

would say publish it absolutely I don't would say publish it absolutely I don't think it would have had an impact but I think it would have had an impact but I think it would have had an impact but I would be in favor of it being of the would be in favor of it being of the would be in favor of it being of the links being alled links being alled links being alled 100% okay uh you mentioned Tucker what 100% okay uh you mentioned Tucker what 100% okay uh you mentioned Tucker what what do you think about Tucker getting what do you think about Tucker getting what do you think about Tucker getting fired from Fox um you're a media person fired from Fox um you're a media person fired from Fox um you're a media person that works independently yes F uh Tucker that works independently yes F uh Tucker that works independently yes F uh Tucker was a media person who doesn't work was a media person who doesn't work was a media person who doesn't work independently independently independently right uh yeah what do you what do you right uh yeah what do you what do you right uh yeah what do you what do you think about that particular situation is think about that particular situation is think about that particular situation is it representative of some big shift it representative of some big shift it representative of some big shift that's happening in mainstream that's happening in mainstream that's happening in mainstream media what would the shift be uh media what would the shift be uh media what would the shift be uh basically mainstream media freaking out basically mainstream media freaking out basically mainstream media freaking out because the funding is getting less and because the funding is getting less and because the funding is getting less and less and less and less and there going less and less and less and there going less and less and less and there going to give more power to to give more power to to give more power to individual commentators basically tuo individual commentators basically tuo individual commentators basically tuo Carlson just starting a podcast so and a Carlson just starting a podcast so and a Carlson just starting a podcast so and a YouTube channel I think that's what he YouTube channel I think that's what he YouTube channel I think that's what he should do I think that's the most should do I think that's the most should do I think that's the most profitable path rather than maybe going profitable path rather than maybe going profitable path rather than maybe going to work for Newsmax or whatever the case to work for Newsmax or whatever the case to work for Newsmax or whatever the case may be but the firing fundamentally was may be but the firing fundamentally was may be but the firing fundamentally was not a politically oriented firing that not a politically oriented firing that not a politically oriented firing that suggests Fox News is changing its tune suggests Fox News is changing its tune suggests Fox News is changing its tune politically in any way there's no politically in any way there's no politically in any way there's no evidence of that whatsoever um Tucker evidence of that whatsoever um Tucker evidence of that whatsoever um Tucker Carlson basically became a legal problem Carlson basically became a legal problem Carlson basically became a legal problem for Fox News there's really Four Points for Fox News there's really Four Points for Fox News there's really Four Points to it one is the $787 A5 million to it one is the $787 A5 million to it one is the $787 A5 million settlement with Dominion partially was settlement with Dominion partially was settlement with Dominion partially was because of the um claims that went out because of the um claims that went out because of the um claims that went out on Tucker Carlson's program so to some on Tucker Carlson's program so to some on Tucker Carlson's program so to some degree Tucker's program was a prominent degree Tucker's program was a prominent degree Tucker's program was a prominent uh node of the problematic claims that uh node of the problematic claims that uh node of the problematic claims that became the subject of the lawsuit that's became the subject of the lawsuit that's became the subject of the lawsuit that's number one number two smart mtic which

number one number two smart mtic which number one number two smart mtic which is another voting Machine Company still is another voting Machine Company still is another voting Machine Company still has similarly sized lawsuit against Fox has similarly sized lawsuit against Fox has similarly sized lawsuit against Fox News based on the exact same sorts of News based on the exact same sorts of News based on the exact same sorts of claims it may cost Fox News again so claims it may cost Fox News again so claims it may cost Fox News again so this is now two problems that Tucker's a this is now two problems that Tucker's a this is now two problems that Tucker's a big contributor to number three former big contributor to number three former big contributor to number three former Tucker staffer has brought a lawsuit and Tucker staffer has brought a lawsuit and Tucker staffer has brought a lawsuit and I don't remember the exact claims but I I don't remember the exact claims but I I don't remember the exact claims but I know that there are claims of different know that there are claims of different know that there are claims of different types of discrimination it seems like it types of discrimination it seems like it types of discrimination it seems like it has legs and that may be a third payout has legs and that may be a third payout has legs and that may be a third payout related to Tucker Carlson and based on related to Tucker Carlson and based on related to Tucker Carlson and based on the 60 Minutes piece from a few weeks the 60 Minutes piece from a few weeks the 60 Minutes piece from a few weeks ago Ray EP saying Tucker ruined his life ago Ray EP saying Tucker ruined his life ago Ray EP saying Tucker ruined his life by M menting conspiracies about him by M menting conspiracies about him by M menting conspiracies about him around January 6th that's ripe for around January 6th that's ripe for around January 6th that's ripe for another lawsuit so to me Tucker firing another lawsuit so to me Tucker firing another lawsuit so to me Tucker firing was a risk mitigation was a risk mitigation was a risk mitigation strategy uh of many that will be strategy uh of many that will be strategy uh of many that will be employed as as these lawsuits come employed as as these lawsuits come employed as as these lawsuits come forward there's no evidence that it's forward there's no evidence that it's forward there's no evidence that it's because Fox didn't like and what we mean because Fox didn't like and what we mean because Fox didn't like and what we mean by that who are we talking about rert by that who are we talking about rert by that who are we talking about rert Murdoch doesn't like or the Pres I don't Murdoch doesn't like or the Pres I don't Murdoch doesn't like or the Pres I don't know but I don't have any reason to know but I don't have any reason to know but I don't have any reason to believe it's because Tucker's ideas were believe it's because Tucker's ideas were believe it's because Tucker's ideas were no longer welcome on Fox certainly the no longer welcome on Fox certainly the no longer welcome on Fox certainly the audience like them so interesting it's audience like them so interesting it's audience like them so interesting it's not about it's not even about the not about it's not even about the not about it's not even about the ratings it's about just the the legal ratings it's about just the the legal ratings it's about just the the legal costs Fox is interesting the ratings costs Fox is interesting the ratings costs Fox is interesting the ratings question is interesting because Fox question is interesting because Fox question is interesting because Fox unlike most other or every other cable unlike most other or every other cable unlike most other or every other cable news channel um they negotiate a a fee news channel um they negotiate a a fee news channel um they negotiate a a fee from every cable subscriber if you have from every cable subscriber if you have from every cable subscriber if you have Fox News as a channel even if you don't Fox News as a channel even if you don't Fox News as a channel even if you don't watch it Fox gets a little bit of money watch it Fox gets a little bit of money watch it Fox gets a little bit of money they are dramatically less dependent on they are dramatically less dependent on they are dramatically less dependent on ad Revenue than CNN and MSNBC so the ad Revenue than CNN and MSNBC so the ad Revenue than CNN and MSNBC so the ratings question is an interesting one

ratings question is an interesting one ratings question is an interesting one but Fox's position is different on that but Fox's position is different on that but Fox's position is different on that another question from another question from another question from Reddit both sides are the same in quotes Reddit both sides are the same in quotes Reddit both sides are the same in quotes is a meme notion that has spread far and is a meme notion that has spread far and is a meme notion that has spread far and wide in American political discourse on wide in American political discourse on wide in American political discourse on the internet to what extent do you agree the internet to what extent do you agree the internet to what extent do you agree or disagree with this notion and why do or disagree with this notion and why do or disagree with this notion and why do you think it is so popular now this you think it is so popular now this you think it is so popular now this Reddit comment also says that podcasts Reddit comment also says that podcasts Reddit comment also says that podcasts like Russell Brand and Joe Rogan or the like Russell Brand and Joe Rogan or the like Russell Brand and Joe Rogan or the legendary comic George Carlin are legendary comic George Carlin are legendary comic George Carlin are examples of big proponents of this examples of big proponents of this examples of big proponents of this notion all of which kind of disagree notion all of which kind of disagree notion all of which kind of disagree with uh Russell bran Joe Rogan and with uh Russell bran Joe Rogan and with uh Russell bran Joe Rogan and George George George Carlin claim that both sides are the Carlin claim that both sides are the Carlin claim that both sides are the same the same and use that you know all same the same and use that you know all same the same and use that you know all politicians are crooked and they suck politicians are crooked and they suck politicians are crooked and they suck and this kind of thing I don't know if and this kind of thing I don't know if and this kind of thing I don't know if they're I don't know if that's true they're I don't know if that's true they're I don't know if that's true maybe George Carlin anyway let leave maybe George Carlin anyway let leave maybe George Carlin anyway let leave that aside uh to what degree do you that aside uh to what degree do you that aside uh to what degree do you think uh I do you agree with this notion think uh I do you agree with this notion think uh I do you agree with this notion that both sides are the same left and that both sides are the same left and that both sides are the same left and right the crooked corrupt politicians right the crooked corrupt politicians right the crooked corrupt politicians they do what politicians do I don't they do what politicians do I don't they do what politicians do I don't agree that it's the same I think there agree that it's the same I think there agree that it's the same I think there are different factions that like to say are different factions that like to say are different factions that like to say that um for different reasons there are that um for different reasons there are that um for different reasons there are some individuals who want to present some individuals who want to present some individuals who want to present themselves as kind of being Above The themselves as kind of being Above The themselves as kind of being Above The Fray of partisan politics and so it's be Fray of partisan politics and so it's be Fray of partisan politics and so it's be I call it enlightened I call it enlightened I call it enlightened centrism um do you mean that positively centrism um do you mean that positively centrism um do you mean that positively or NE no I mean it negatively yeah it's or NE no I mean it negatively yeah it's or NE no I mean it negatively yeah it's it's a bit of a pejorative the idea that it's a bit of a pejorative the idea that it's a bit of a pejorative the idea that I am not going to fall for being a

I am not going to fall for being a I am not going to fall for being a democrat or a republican I can see that democrat or a republican I can see that democrat or a republican I can see that these are just two sides of the same these are just two sides of the same these are just two sides of the same coin equally bad lying to every okay so coin equally bad lying to every okay so coin equally bad lying to every okay so that's one it's sort of like it's that's one it's sort of like it's that's one it's sort of like it's popular at dinner parties in some popular at dinner parties in some popular at dinner parties in some circles to go now I'm but all these circles to go now I'm but all these circles to go now I'm but all these politicians you know left and right so politicians you know left and right so politicians you know left and right so that's one side of it the other side of that's one side of it the other side of that's one side of it the other side of it is that it's often used when when it is that it's often used when when it is that it's often used when when your side has really stepped in it it's your side has really stepped in it it's your side has really stepped in it it's a popular way to acknowledge that your a popular way to acknowledge that your a popular way to acknowledge that your side has done something wrong but while side has done something wrong but while side has done something wrong but while framing it as it's not uniquely wrong framing it as it's not uniquely wrong framing it as it's not uniquely wrong and it's not worse than what anybody and it's not worse than what anybody and it's not worse than what anybody else does and I find that it's one of else does and I find that it's one of else does and I find that it's one of the lamest and most kind of cringe the lamest and most kind of cringe the lamest and most kind of cringe inducing things to hear because of the inducing things to hear because of the inducing things to hear because of the what comes next and usually what comes what comes next and usually what comes what comes next and usually what comes next is not a good accurate criticism of next is not a good accurate criticism of next is not a good accurate criticism of something that took place and a something that took place and a something that took place and a discussion of how to solve a real discussion of how to solve a real discussion of how to solve a real problem that we have I find it a problem that we have I find it a problem that we have I find it a conversation Stifler it also is used to conversation Stifler it also is used to conversation Stifler it also is used to kind of suppress voter turnout not kind of suppress voter turnout not kind of suppress voter turnout not actively it's not that the people who actively it's not that the people who actively it's not that the people who say that go around saying don't vote but say that go around saying don't vote but say that go around saying don't vote but the idea of course is the more people the idea of course is the more people the idea of course is the more people that believe that it doesn't really make that believe that it doesn't really make that believe that it doesn't really make a difference who you vote for it's going a difference who you vote for it's going a difference who you vote for it's going to suppress voter turnout and I want to suppress voter turnout and I want to suppress voter turnout and I want voter turnout to be as high as possible voter turnout to be as high as possible voter turnout to be as high as possible not as low as possible so I also dislike not as low as possible so I also dislike not as low as possible so I also dislike it for that reason so is it possible to it for that reason so is it possible to it for that reason so is it possible to say that one side is worse than the say that one side is worse than the say that one side is worse than the other in in modern current political other in in modern current political other in in modern current political climate listen I'm a person on the left climate listen I'm a person on the left climate listen I'm a person on the left I'm not pretending to come here as as

I'm not pretending to come here as as I'm not pretending to come here as as and not knowing that my view is biased and not knowing that my view is biased and not knowing that my view is biased because I'm a person of the left if you because I'm a person of the left if you because I'm a person of the left if you ask Ben Shapiro he'll tell you something ask Ben Shapiro he'll tell you something ask Ben Shapiro he'll tell you something different I think in different I think in different I think in 2023 some total the influence of the 2023 some total the influence of the 2023 some total the influence of the American rightwing if the American American rightwing if the American American rightwing if the American rightwing were to get everything it rightwing were to get everything it rightwing were to get everything it wants it would be a horrifying reality wants it would be a horrifying reality wants it would be a horrifying reality if the left were to get everything it if the left were to get everything it if the left were to get everything it wants we'd have to figure out a few wants we'd have to figure out a few wants we'd have to figure out a few things including exactly how we pay for things including exactly how we pay for things including exactly how we pay for certain programs certain programs certain programs but they're mostly noble goals and I but they're mostly noble goals and I but they're mostly noble goals and I believe that they are more supportive of believe that they are more supportive of believe that they are more supportive of an an an individual individual individual self-determining what they want to do in self-determining what they want to do in self-determining what they want to do in life and how they want to live and is life and how they want to live and is life and how they want to live and is more in line with the idea of freedom more in line with the idea of freedom more in line with the idea of freedom and liberty than what the right is and liberty than what the right is and liberty than what the right is currently proposing that's my view and currently proposing that's my view and currently proposing that's my view and of course people will disagree with me of course people will disagree with me of course people will disagree with me and say no we get to freedom and liberty and say no we get to freedom and liberty and say no we get to freedom and liberty the way that the right wants to do it the way that the right wants to do it the way that the right wants to do it okay well we can have that conversation okay well we can have that conversation okay well we can have that conversation so I think you've implied in your answer so I think you've implied in your answer so I think you've implied in your answer it was kind of focused on policy it felt it was kind of focused on policy it felt it was kind of focused on policy it felt like it was focused on policy there's like it was focused on policy there's like it was focused on policy there's other stuff that people worry about sure other stuff that people worry about sure other stuff that people worry about sure um particularly with the left uh What uh um particularly with the left uh What uh um particularly with the left uh What uh may be termed the woke mind may be termed the woke mind may be termed the woke mind virus where have I heard who's using virus where have I heard who's using virus where have I heard who's using that term a lot now I'm trying to think that term a lot now I'm trying to think that term a lot now I'm trying to think I'm not sure not sure not sure where it I'm not sure not sure not sure where it I'm not sure not sure not sure where it comes up uh but the cultural aspect of comes up uh but the cultural aspect of comes up uh but the cultural aspect of this that um you know if you give a lot this that um you know if you give a lot this that um you know if you give a lot of power to people on the left as you of power to people on the left as you of power to people on the left as you gave as an example there would be a lot

gave as an example there would be a lot gave as an example there would be a lot of kind of censorship and suppression of of kind of censorship and suppression of of kind of censorship and suppression of speech and a kind of uh dividing up of a speech and a kind of uh dividing up of a speech and a kind of uh dividing up of a society of who's allowed to um basically society of who's allowed to um basically society of who's allowed to um basically a reallocation of resources not based on a reallocation of resources not based on a reallocation of resources not based on Merit but based on some kind of high Merit but based on some kind of high Merit but based on some kind of high ethical Notions of what is right and uh ethical Notions of what is right and uh ethical Notions of what is right and uh only a very small percentage of the only a very small percentage of the only a very small percentage of the population gets to decide what is what population gets to decide what is what population gets to decide what is what is fair what is is fair what is is fair what is Right which is you know um we already Right which is you know um we already Right which is you know um we already have a small portion of the population have a small portion of the population have a small portion of the population deciding Fair okay yes but I don't I deciding Fair okay yes but I don't I deciding Fair okay yes but I don't I don't know I don't know how many don't know I don't know how many don't know I don't know how many different ways I can say kind of a different ways I can say kind of a different ways I can say kind of a negative characterization of uh of folks negative characterization of uh of folks negative characterization of uh of folks on the left when we're now comparing it on the left when we're now comparing it on the left when we're now comparing it just as a to play Devil's Advocate sure just as a to play Devil's Advocate sure just as a to play Devil's Advocate sure so is there is that something that you so is there is that something that you so is there is that something that you worry about so po setting policies aside worry about so po setting policies aside worry about so po setting policies aside uh wokeism yes how big of a problem is uh wokeism yes how big of a problem is uh wokeism yes how big of a problem is it this is a great conversation so let's it this is a great conversation so let's it this is a great conversation so let's two two sides of it okay we have new two two sides of it okay we have new two two sides of it okay we have new polling that seems to suggest so-called polling that seems to suggest so-called polling that seems to suggest so-called wokeism is kind of more popular in the wokeism is kind of more popular in the wokeism is kind of more popular in the United States than anti wokeism and I'll United States than anti wokeism and I'll United States than anti wokeism and I'll tell you what I mean by that this is the tell you what I mean by that this is the tell you what I mean by that this is the less interesting part we'll go to the less interesting part we'll go to the less interesting part we'll go to the more interesting part second um people more interesting part second um people more interesting part second um people sometimes what people mean by wokeism is sometimes what people mean by wokeism is sometimes what people mean by wokeism is an an an overreaction to a overreaction to a overreaction to a perceived perceived perceived Injustice that goes beyond what would be Injustice that goes beyond what would be Injustice that goes beyond what would be fair and Equitable there was this really fair and Equitable there was this really fair and Equitable there was this really interesting poll and it asked questions interesting poll and it asked questions interesting poll and it asked questions like for example do you believe Society like for example do you believe Society like for example do you believe Society has gone too far not far enough or just

has gone too far not far enough or just has gone too far not far enough or just about the right amount in dealing with about the right amount in dealing with about the right amount in dealing with uh issues affecting the trans Community uh issues affecting the trans Community uh issues affecting the trans Community the woke position which is society the woke position which is society the woke position which is society hasn't gone far enough was far more hasn't gone far enough was far more hasn't gone far enough was far more popular than we've gone too far now the popular than we've gone too far now the popular than we've gone too far now the the right-wing media narrative is we've the right-wing media narrative is we've the right-wing media narrative is we've gone way too far this is out of gone way too far this is out of gone way too far this is out of control and there are lots of other control and there are lots of other control and there are lots of other similar answers it's not a huge margin a similar answers it's not a huge margin a similar answers it's not a huge margin a lot of these are like 5 to 42 60 to 40 lot of these are like 5 to 42 60 to 40 lot of these are like 5 to 42 60 to 40 it's not like 90 to 10 but by a small it's not like 90 to 10 but by a small it's not like 90 to 10 but by a small margin the so-called woke perspective of margin the so-called woke perspective of margin the so-called woke perspective of we actually haven't yet done enough to we actually haven't yet done enough to we actually haven't yet done enough to fix some of these issues is a little bit fix some of these issues is a little bit fix some of these issues is a little bit more popular so if we went back to more popular so if we went back to more popular so if we went back to DeSantis this is part of why I think the DeSantis this is part of why I think the DeSantis this is part of why I think the Sis's anti-woke agenda may just be a Sis's anti-woke agenda may just be a Sis's anti-woke agenda may just be a political misstep that's a really political misstep that's a really political misstep that's a really interesting result I I wonder how the interesting result I I wonder how the interesting result I I wonder how the questions are uh questions are uh questions are uh framed but it's it's still interesting framed but it's it's still interesting framed but it's it's still interesting nevertheless no matter what to hear that nevertheless no matter what to hear that nevertheless no matter what to hear that that people are majority of people in that people are majority of people in that people are majority of people in America are woke in not in the negative America are woke in not in the negative America are woke in not in the negative sense of the word the poll didn't use sense of the word the poll didn't use sense of the word the poll didn't use the term woke right right this is a the term woke right right this is a the term woke right right this is a critical thing let's use the term woke critical thing let's use the term woke critical thing let's use the term woke positively here the term has kind of positively here the term has kind of positively here the term has kind of been perverted yes four years ago when been perverted yes four years ago when been perverted yes four years ago when the term was started to be used I would the term was started to be used I would the term was started to be used I would have said oh yeah woke just means like I have said oh yeah woke just means like I have said oh yeah woke just means like I have become aware of problems that are have become aware of problems that are have become aware of problems that are bigger than any one person can fix for bigger than any one person can fix for bigger than any one person can fix for themselves that relate to the system I themselves that relate to the system I themselves that relate to the system I think that's what and we might disagree think that's what and we might disagree think that's what and we might disagree on which problems fall into that on which problems fall into that on which problems fall into that category but like it was kind of benign

category but like it was kind of benign category but like it was kind of benign I think now it just means like I think now it just means like I think now it just means like outrageously left-wing maybe even with outrageously left-wing maybe even with outrageously left-wing maybe even with socialist or Marxist undertones it's socialist or Marxist undertones it's socialist or Marxist undertones it's become a pejorative at this but also become a pejorative at this but also become a pejorative at this but also like bullies like people sure censor like bullies like people sure censor like bullies like people sure censor yeah but people that go around calling yeah but people that go around calling yeah but people that go around calling others racist uh sometimes often times others racist uh sometimes often times others racist uh sometimes often times without any proof of or justification without any proof of or justification without any proof of or justification fair but that's we're that's that's a fair but that's we're that's that's a fair but that's we're that's that's a few folks on Twitter you're saying like few folks on Twitter you're saying like few folks on Twitter you're saying like the polling is starting to show that the polling is starting to show that the polling is starting to show that like no they's like no they's like no they's still uh most of the Americans still still uh most of the Americans still still uh most of the Americans still care about these issues and want to yeah care about these issues and want to yeah care about these issues and want to yeah want to want to improve and want to make want to want to improve and want to make want to want to improve and want to make progress I think that's the case and progress I think that's the case and progress I think that's the case and they want to do it in a genuine way that they want to do it in a genuine way that they want to do it in a genuine way that doesn't suppress or oppress anybody but doesn't suppress or oppress anybody but doesn't suppress or oppress anybody but now let me get to like to what degree do now let me get to like to what degree do now let me get to like to what degree do I think that actual when it goes too far I think that actual when it goes too far I think that actual when it goes too far is a problem it absolutely exists it we is a problem it absolutely exists it we is a problem it absolutely exists it we can find instances of where this exists can find instances of where this exists can find instances of where this exists on the left um I've been told many times on the left um I've been told many times on the left um I've been told many times that as a Jewish Argentinian immigrant that as a Jewish Argentinian immigrant that as a Jewish Argentinian immigrant to the United to the United to the United States I actually don't qualify as States I actually don't qualify as States I actually don't qualify as oppressed oppressed oppressed enough because Jews are privileged now enough because Jews are privileged now enough because Jews are privileged now in the US and my family had just enough in the US and my family had just enough in the US and my family had just enough money to leave Argent so there's this money to leave Argent so there's this money to leave Argent so there's this kind of like oppression Olympics thing kind of like oppression Olympics thing kind of like oppression Olympics thing where I've been told you don't get to where I've been told you don't get to where I've been told you don't get to comment for example like a topic in the comment for example like a topic in the comment for example like a topic in the Latino Community now is are you familiar Latino Community now is are you familiar Latino Community now is are you familiar with Latin X okay in Spanish there's a

with Latin X okay in Spanish there's a with Latin X okay in Spanish there's a an analogous movement where words by an analogous movement where words by an analogous movement where words by their nature sort of like have a gender their nature sort of like have a gender their nature sort of like have a gender so like the word for friend is so like the word for friend is so like the word for friend is Amigo but if it's a woman you would say Amigo but if it's a woman you would say Amigo but if it's a woman you would say Amiga so right from there you can tell Amiga so right from there you can tell Amiga so right from there you can tell the gender that we're talking about and the gender that we're talking about and the gender that we're talking about and if it's a mixed group you say amigos if it's a mixed group you say amigos if it's a mixed group you say amigos it's the it's the it's the male with an S but it could include both male with an S but it could include both male with an S but it could include both there's a movement now which wants to do there's a movement now which wants to do there's a movement now which wants to do away with that and put the letter E in away with that and put the letter E in away with that and put the letter E in it's a new word okay it's a gender it's a new word okay it's a gender it's a new word okay it's a gender neutral word Amigas totally new I don't neutral word Amigas totally new I don't neutral word Amigas totally new I don't like that and I don't know anyone no one like that and I don't know anyone no one like that and I don't know anyone no one in my family uses it and I think it's in my family uses it and I think it's in my family uses it and I think it's kind of like a strange imposition from kind of like a strange imposition from kind of like a strange imposition from someone kind of with with a solution in someone kind of with with a solution in someone kind of with with a solution in search of of a problem I've been told search of of a problem I've been told search of of a problem I've been told you moved to the US long ago and like you moved to the US long ago and like you moved to the US long ago and like your English is good and like you look your English is good and like you look your English is good and like you look white and so like you don't get to way white and so like you don't get to way white and so like you don't get to way in on that that I think is an example if in on that that I think is an example if in on that that I think is an example if I understand correctly of the type of of I understand correctly of the type of of I understand correctly of the type of of thing you're talking about I'm I'm kind thing you're talking about I'm I'm kind thing you're talking about I'm I'm kind of being bullied I'm fine I'm surviving of being bullied I'm fine I'm surviving of being bullied I'm fine I'm surviving fine but I'm being bullied over it and fine but I'm being bullied over it and fine but I'm being bullied over it and disqualified and saying you don't get to disqualified and saying you don't get to disqualified and saying you don't get to speak on this issue all of those example speak on this issue all of those example speak on this issue all of those example all of that stuff I am completely all of that stuff I am completely all of that stuff I am completely against and I tell people on the left against and I tell people on the left against and I tell people on the left we're actually hurting our own movement we're actually hurting our own movement we're actually hurting our own movement with this stuff I just don't think it's with this stuff I just don't think it's with this stuff I just don't think it's as big mhm as some others believe it you as big mhm as some others believe it you as big mhm as some others believe it you don't think it's an existential threat don't think it's an existential threat don't think it's an existential threat to our civilization in the West to our civilization in the West to our civilization in the West no and and I mean look we've got a Biden no and and I mean look we've got a Biden no and and I mean look we've got a Biden Administration I see Biden as Center Administration I see Biden as Center Administration I see Biden as Center left those who see Biden as extreme left those who see Biden as extreme left those who see Biden as extreme farle this stuff has played almost no

farle this stuff has played almost no farle this stuff has played almost no role whatsoever in the first two plus role whatsoever in the first two plus role whatsoever in the first two plus years of his administration with do years of his administration with do years of his administration with do people that see him far left as far left people that see him far left as far left people that see him far left as far left there's people on the right who I mean there's people on the right who I mean there's people on the right who I mean Trump says Biden's a a Marxist Socialist Trump says Biden's a a Marxist Socialist Trump says Biden's a a Marxist Socialist Communist um I haven't heard that Communist um I haven't heard that Communist um I haven't heard that because I I don't think that would stick because I I don't think that would stick because I I don't think that would stick uh very much I think he say it at every uh very much I think he say it at every uh very much I think he say it at every rally rally rally yeah which I'm so jealous that you don't yeah which I'm so jealous that you don't yeah which I'm so jealous that you don't watch these things I Love How Deeply watch these things I Love How Deeply watch these things I Love How Deeply researched you are in Trump I can only researched you are in Trump I can only researched you are in Trump I can only imagine how good your Trump impression imagine how good your Trump impression imagine how good your Trump impression is at this point it's not very sadly is at this point it's not very sadly is at this point it's not very sadly it's not good it's not all right no but it's not good it's not all right no but it's not good it's not all right no but and and I'll say one other thing on on and and I'll say one other thing on on and and I'll say one other thing on on that you know take trans because trans that you know take trans because trans that you know take trans because trans just to talk about it a little bit we just to talk about it a little bit we just to talk about it a little bit we haven't dealt with it much the trans haven't dealt with it much the trans haven't dealt with it much the trans issue has become huge I believe because issue has become huge I believe because issue has become huge I believe because the right is obsessed with it the right the right is obsessed with it the right the right is obsessed with it the right is very much not concerned with gay men is very much not concerned with gay men is very much not concerned with gay men anymore it used to be that gay men is anymore it used to be that gay men is anymore it used to be that gay men is like oh we have to stop gay men from like oh we have to stop gay men from like oh we have to stop gay men from adopting and un natural and pedophiles adopting and un natural and pedophiles adopting and un natural and pedophiles now it's trans it's drag shows Etc I do now it's trans it's drag shows Etc I do now it's trans it's drag shows Etc I do think that there is a fair question to think that there is a fair question to think that there is a fair question to say how do we deal with trans women in a say how do we deal with trans women in a say how do we deal with trans women in a very small short list of sports that's very small short list of sports that's very small short list of sports that's real okay my view though is I go okay we real okay my view though is I go okay we real okay my view though is I go okay we have all issues we have issues related have all issues we have issues related have all issues we have issues related to gender and sexual orientation we have to gender and sexual orientation we have to gender and sexual orientation we have issues related to trans Within that we issues related to trans Within that we issues related to trans Within that we have specifically Sports you can have specifically Sports you can have specifically Sports you can eliminate from that uh trans men eliminate from that uh trans men eliminate from that uh trans men nobody's worried right about women uh nobody's worried right about women uh nobody's worried right about women uh biological women who are transm and then

biological women who are transm and then biological women who are transm and then when you say it's only in certain sports when you say it's only in certain sports when you say it's only in certain sports that it matters hey I'm right there I that it matters hey I'm right there I that it matters hey I'm right there I think it's a complicated question I think it's a complicated question I think it's a complicated question I don't know how we deal with it I would don't know how we deal with it I would don't know how we deal with it I would ask leagues that have experienced with ask leagues that have experienced with ask leagues that have experienced with this already and whatever the problem I this already and whatever the problem I this already and whatever the problem I have is pretending that the the uh have is pretending that the the uh have is pretending that the the uh Vanguard of leftwing politics right now Vanguard of leftwing politics right now Vanguard of leftwing politics right now is trying to force trans women into is trying to force trans women into is trying to force trans women into sports it's like it's just not the big sports it's like it's just not the big sports it's like it's just not the big issue that the right is reacting as if issue that the right is reacting as if issue that the right is reacting as if it were well perhaps because of the it were well perhaps because of the it were well perhaps because of the right it's forcing the left uh to to right it's forcing the left uh to to right it's forcing the left uh to to continue discussing it I mean I I feel continue discussing it I mean I I feel continue discussing it I mean I I feel like it uh even in institutions even at like it uh even in institutions even at like it uh even in institutions even at universities it feels like these ideas universities it feels like these ideas universities it feels like these ideas of diversity inclusion and Equity are of diversity inclusion and Equity are of diversity inclusion and Equity are taking some of the air out of the taking some of the air out of the taking some of the air out of the room of um what a university should also room of um what a university should also room of um what a university should also care about which is uh care about which is uh care about which is uh Merit and it feels like Merit and it feels like Merit and it feels like reprioritization is going a little too reprioritization is going a little too reprioritization is going a little too far the other way meaning uh far the other way meaning uh far the other way meaning uh prioritizing this kind of amorphous prioritizing this kind of amorphous prioritizing this kind of amorphous concept of diversity is moving away is concept of diversity is moving away is concept of diversity is moving away is giving power to people that don't care giving power to people that don't care giving power to people that don't care about Merit and they just want to bully about Merit and they just want to bully about Merit and they just want to bully people with a big stick that says racism people with a big stick that says racism people with a big stick that says racism or sexism or um or sexism or um or sexism or um anti-diversity uh and it it kind of anti-diversity uh and it it kind of anti-diversity uh and it it kind of suffocates the people that uh care about

suffocates the people that uh care about suffocates the people that uh care about Merit about meritocracy about inspiring Merit about meritocracy about inspiring Merit about meritocracy about inspiring people from all kinds of backgrounds to people from all kinds of backgrounds to people from all kinds of backgrounds to succeed and it's just you kind of succeed and it's just you kind of succeed and it's just you kind of observe that I'm sure that happens in observe that I'm sure that happens in observe that I'm sure that happens in all kinds of Institutions and the all kinds of Institutions and the all kinds of Institutions and the concern I think the people that are concern I think the people that are concern I think the people that are concerned about wokeism are concerned concerned about wokeism are concerned concerned about wokeism are concerned about at scale what impact does that about at scale what impact does that about at scale what impact does that have on a society have on a society have on a society when there's so much conversation about when there's so much conversation about when there's so much conversation about racism and a de a pressure not to talk racism and a de a pressure not to talk racism and a de a pressure not to talk about Merit like who's the actual good about Merit like who's the actual good about Merit like who's the actual good person in the room the best person in person in the room the best person in person in the room the best person in the room generically that's a concern to the room generically that's a concern to the room generically that's a concern to me the degree to which it's happening at me the degree to which it's happening at me the degree to which it's happening at different different different institutions I think is worthy of institutions I think is worthy of institutions I think is worthy of exploration I know people who work in exploration I know people who work in exploration I know people who work in Academia that are getting out of Academia that are getting out of Academia that are getting out of Academia because they don't like the Academia because they don't like the Academia because they don't like the environment on their campuses for environment on their campuses for environment on their campuses for exactly the reason you're saying so it exactly the reason you're saying so it exactly the reason you're saying so it exists there is no question about it I exists there is no question about it I exists there is no question about it I also think that the idea of a perfect also think that the idea of a perfect also think that the idea of a perfect meritocracy is is maybe not necessarily meritocracy is is maybe not necessarily meritocracy is is maybe not necessarily the goal in the sense that um when you the goal in the sense that um when you the goal in the sense that um when you talk about perfect meritocracy someone talk about perfect meritocracy someone talk about perfect meritocracy someone wrote a book about this who I wrote a book about this who I wrote a book about this who I interviewed about a year and a half ago interviewed about a year and a half ago interviewed about a year and a half ago and whose Name Escapes Me There are and whose Name Escapes Me There are and whose Name Escapes Me There are problems with a perfect meritocracy I problems with a perfect meritocracy I problems with a perfect meritocracy I think what we want to do is generate think what we want to do is generate think what we want to do is generate roughly equal um uh um opportunity for roughly equal um uh um opportunity for roughly equal um uh um opportunity for people understanding that there is going people understanding that there is going people understanding that there is going to be an outcome on a gradient or a bell to be an outcome on a gradient or a bell to be an outcome on a gradient or a bell curve allowing people generally speaking curve allowing people generally speaking curve allowing people generally speaking to determine the path that they want to to determine the path that they want to to determine the path that they want to take and giving them if it's possible take and giving them if it's possible take and giving them if it's possible the ability to uh uh pursue that without

the ability to uh uh pursue that without the ability to uh uh pursue that without suppressing limiting I mean this is like suppressing limiting I mean this is like suppressing limiting I mean this is like relatively uncontroversial stuff among I relatively uncontroversial stuff among I relatively uncontroversial stuff among I would argue 95% of the left with the would argue 95% of the left with the would argue 95% of the left with the caveats of what you're talking about caveats of what you're talking about caveats of what you're talking about which I agree exist and it would be nice which I agree exist and it would be nice which I agree exist and it would be nice to know the actual data sometimes people to know the actual data sometimes people to know the actual data sometimes people blow stuff out of the proportion what is blow stuff out of the proportion what is blow stuff out of the proportion what is it's hard it's hard to measure how much it's hard it's hard to measure how much it's hard it's hard to measure how much self-censorship happens at University self-censorship happens at University self-censorship happens at University campuses it's hard that's true I think campuses it's hard that's true I think campuses it's hard that's true I think also it's sort of like the the pitbull also it's sort of like the the pitbull also it's sort of like the the pitbull bite stories thing where when a pitbull bite stories thing where when a pitbull bite stories thing where when a pitbull bites a person it's more likely to be bites a person it's more likely to be bites a person it's more likely to be reported on because it fits a certain reported on because it fits a certain reported on because it fits a certain narrative and there are right-wing narrative and there are right-wing narrative and there are right-wing Publications that are very interested in Publications that are very interested in Publications that are very interested in making this seem as if it is an epidemic making this seem as if it is an epidemic making this seem as if it is an epidemic I'm the first to say it is happening to I'm the first to say it is happening to I'm the first to say it is happening to a degree I don't know the degree that a degree I don't know the degree that a degree I don't know the degree that it's happening to I know a lot of people it's happening to I know a lot of people it's happening to I know a lot of people in Academia only a couple of them say in Academia only a couple of them say in Academia only a couple of them say that it's an that it's an that it's an issue would they say it though if they issue would they say it though if they issue would they say it though if they believed it I think they would say it to believed it I think they would say it to believed it I think they would say it to me these are just personal contacts it's me these are just personal contacts it's me these are just personal contacts it's not like I'm going to go blabbing to not like I'm going to go blabbing to not like I'm going to go blabbing to push back uh I kind of agree with you push back uh I kind of agree with you push back uh I kind of agree with you but at the same time most I mean I'm but at the same time most I mean I'm but at the same time most I mean I'm deeply connected in Academia of huge deeply connected in Academia of huge deeply connected in Academia of huge number of colleagues most number of colleagues most number of colleagues most people self-censor by not thinking about people self-censor by not thinking about people self-censor by not thinking about it at all they're like SC it that's it at all they're like SC it that's it at all they're like SC it that's deeper whatever I'm just going to focus deeper whatever I'm just going to focus deeper whatever I'm just going to focus on the thing I love doing which is the on the thing I love doing which is the on the thing I love doing which is the work and they don't think about uh they work and they don't think about uh they work and they don't think about uh they basically remove themselves basically remove themselves basically remove themselves from politics and social issues and they from politics and social issues and they from politics and social issues and they just kind of say I'm going to do my

just kind of say I'm going to do my just kind of say I'm going to do my engineering I'm going to do my engineering I'm going to do my engineering I'm going to do my mathematics sure the problem with that mathematics sure the problem with that mathematics sure the problem with that is it's kind of you can't go anywhere is it's kind of you can't go anywhere is it's kind of you can't go anywhere further to figure it out it's sort of further to figure it out it's sort of further to figure it out it's sort of like there's this funny clip where like there's this funny clip where like there's this funny clip where Jordan Peterson says even atheists are Jordan Peterson says even atheists are Jordan Peterson says even atheists are actually religious they just don't know actually religious they just don't know actually religious they just don't know it and it's like it's hard to test that it and it's like it's hard to test that it and it's like it's hard to test that you know I don't know yeah okay I mean I you know I don't know yeah okay I mean I you know I don't know yeah okay I mean I don't I don't but it's it's a fair point don't I don't but it's it's a fair point don't I don't but it's it's a fair point I mean there maybe some people if it has I mean there maybe some people if it has I mean there maybe some people if it has become so toxic for some people they may become so toxic for some people they may become so toxic for some people they may have repressed it way down into their have repressed it way down into their have repressed it way down into their subconscious but I don't know how we subconscious but I don't know how we subconscious but I don't know how we would know that but you you you know would know that but you you you know would know that but you you you know symptoms of it because when certain symptoms of it because when certain symptoms of it because when certain people speak people speak people speak up kind of lightly and then a 19yearold up kind of lightly and then a 19yearold up kind of lightly and then a 19yearold or a 20-year-old responds and is or a 20-year-old responds and is or a 20-year-old responds and is outraged the fact that the outraged the fact that the outraged the fact that the administration listens to that 19 and administration listens to that 19 and administration listens to that 19 and 20y old and then reprimands whoever 20y old and then reprimands whoever 20y old and then reprimands whoever spoke up a little bit that's a really spoke up a little bit that's a really spoke up a little bit that's a really dangerous sign to me and I don't really dangerous sign to me and I don't really dangerous sign to me and I don't really care about these like so I I'm more with care about these like so I I'm more with care about these like so I I'm more with you I don't think it's a big issue but you I don't think it's a big issue but you I don't think it's a big issue but then I notice it I wonder wait a minute then I notice it I wonder wait a minute then I notice it I wonder wait a minute would this kind of environment allow a would this kind of environment allow a would this kind of environment allow a youngn CH ski to be around would this youngn CH ski to be around would this youngn CH ski to be around would this environment allow like uh I don't know environment allow like uh I don't know environment allow like uh I don't know like uh what Tenya was designed for like uh what Tenya was designed for like uh what Tenya was designed for which is to have controversial thinkers which is to have controversial thinkers which is to have controversial thinkers and not kind of weird controversial and not kind of weird controversial and not kind of weird controversial thinkers but really people that thinkers but really people that thinkers but really people that challenge things that should be challenge things that should be challenge things that should be challenged yeah I I sympathize with that challenged yeah I I sympathize with that challenged yeah I I sympathize with that significantly I always try to look at significantly I always try to look at significantly I always try to look at specific examples yeah and sometimes specific examples yeah and sometimes specific examples yeah and sometimes I'll look at people I'll I'll ask for I'll look at people I'll I'll ask for I'll look at people I'll I'll ask for them and people will send me five and them and people will send me five and them and people will send me five and one of them is a legit bonified example

one of them is a legit bonified example one of them is a legit bonified example of what we're talking about and four are of what we're talking about and four are of what we're talking about and four are kind of like ah there was a complaint kind of like ah there was a complaint kind of like ah there was a complaint and it was investigated but the and it was investigated but the and it was investigated but the teacher's tenure was never in Jeopardy teacher's tenure was never in Jeopardy teacher's tenure was never in Jeopardy and yeah I don't know that I chock this and yeah I don't know that I chock this and yeah I don't know that I chock this up to a big woke event what do you think up to a big woke event what do you think up to a big woke event what do you think the kind of apparatus of the four-year the kind of apparatus of the four-year the kind of apparatus of the four-year degree in college is going to look like degree in college is going to look like degree in college is going to look like in 20 years oh that's I mean we're like in 20 years oh that's I mean we're like in 20 years oh that's I mean we're like day by day that seems to be changing day by day that seems to be changing day by day that seems to be changing with GPT I don't know if you've gotten a with GPT I don't know if you've gotten a with GPT I don't know if you've gotten a chance to interact with Chad GPT chance to interact with Chad GPT chance to interact with Chad GPT absolutely my entire show now is written absolutely my entire show now is written absolutely my entire show now is written by Chad by Chad by Chad GP I mean there's uh that's partially a GP I mean there's uh that's partially a GP I mean there's uh that's partially a joke uh it is only because it stopped joke uh it is only because it stopped joke uh it is only because it stopped looking at the internet at 20 in 2021 if looking at the internet at 20 in 2021 if looking at the internet at 20 in 2021 if it was current I could completely just it was current I could completely just it was current I could completely just tune it out no I'm I'm kidding but it's tune it out no I'm I'm kidding but it's tune it out no I'm I'm kidding but it's a fascinating tool and uh it's changing a fascinating tool and uh it's changing a fascinating tool and uh it's changing the nature of how we uh do homework the nature of how we uh do homework the nature of how we uh do homework assignments it's changing the nature of assignments it's changing the nature of assignments it's changing the nature of how we learn how we look up new how we learn how we look up new how we learn how we look up new information how we explore information information how we explore information information how we explore information how we care about things we're how we care about things we're how we care about things we're interested in I think interested in I think interested in I think it um I I don't think we'll it um I I don't think we'll it um I I don't think we'll have value for a University degree in 20 have value for a University degree in 20 have value for a University degree in 20 years the way we do now I just think it years the way we do now I just think it years the way we do now I just think it changes everything I think uh language changes everything I think uh language changes everything I think uh language models me Google search has already in models me Google search has already in models me Google search has already in Wikipedia has Wikipedia has Wikipedia has already transformed I would say our already transformed I would say our already transformed I would say our civilization but it's there was still a civilization but it's there was still a civilization but it's there was still a value for basic education I don't I value for basic education I don't I value for basic education I don't I think that starts to dissipate uh with think that starts to dissipate uh with think that starts to dissipate uh with with Chad GPT so I don't I don't know with Chad GPT so I don't I don't know with Chad GPT so I don't I don't know yeah um I I really I really don't think

yeah um I I really I really don't think yeah um I I really I really don't think there's a university the way we think of there's a university the way we think of there's a university the way we think of a university in 20 20 30 years the I a university in 20 20 30 years the I a university in 20 20 30 years the I mean I have a personal interest in it in mean I have a personal interest in it in mean I have a personal interest in it in that my daughter is 10 months old yeah that my daughter is 10 months old yeah that my daughter is 10 months old yeah and I'm doing the 529 account I'm going and I'm doing the 529 account I'm going and I'm doing the 529 account I'm going through the motions as if yeah but I through the motions as if yeah but I through the motions as if yeah but I also recognize you know if she went to also recognize you know if she went to also recognize you know if she went to the schools I went to just with the rate the schools I went to just with the rate the schools I went to just with the rate of tuition increase you're talking 200k of tuition increase you're talking 200k of tuition increase you're talking 200k a year by the time she's 18 and what a year by the time she's 18 and what a year by the time she's 18 and what happens with wages relative to that this happens with wages relative to that this happens with wages relative to that this is like separate from the technological is like separate from the technological is like separate from the technological thing um and in my mind I'm thinking is thing um and in my mind I'm thinking is thing um and in my mind I'm thinking is this going to continue being the right this going to continue being the right this going to continue being the right path what I would love to see is so many path what I would love to see is so many path what I would love to see is so many people that I interact with just by people that I interact with just by people that I interact with just by virtue of what I do have no Foundation virtue of what I do have no Foundation virtue of what I do have no Foundation in critical thinking epistemology in critical thinking epistemology in critical thinking epistemology philosophy media literacy philosophy media literacy philosophy media literacy and if there were some way to make that and if there were some way to make that and if there were some way to make that the core of some basic education that the core of some basic education that the core of some basic education that everybody's receiving which goes beyond everybody's receiving which goes beyond everybody's receiving which goes beyond you know chat GPT can do so many things you know chat GPT can do so many things you know chat GPT can do so many things but I've not yet seen good examples of but I've not yet seen good examples of but I've not yet seen good examples of how it can teach you to think maybe you how it can teach you to think maybe you how it can teach you to think maybe you have a different view on how chat gbt have a different view on how chat gbt have a different view on how chat gbt can teach a user to think but those can teach a user to think but those can teach a user to think but those skills seem to be so lacking and so many skills seem to be so lacking and so many skills seem to be so lacking and so many of the people I interact with if there's of the people I interact with if there's of the people I interact with if there's any positive change to come from a any positive change to come from a any positive change to come from a changing Dynamic with higher education I changing Dynamic with higher education I changing Dynamic with higher education I wish it would be to go in that direction wish it would be to go in that direction wish it would be to go in that direction well no um chat GPT is actually much well no um chat GPT is actually much well no um chat GPT is actually much better helping me think than than any better helping me think than than any better helping me think than than any educator even books that I've encounter educator even books that I've encounter educator even books that I've encounter because it it's very good at presenting

because it it's very good at presenting because it it's very good at presenting the full picture even better than a lot the full picture even better than a lot the full picture even better than a lot of wikkipedia Articles you know on of wikkipedia Articles you know on of wikkipedia Articles you know on questions like the the the virus leak questions like the the the virus leak questions like the the the virus leak from a lab uh the the the CO leak from a from a lab uh the the the CO leak from a from a lab uh the the the CO leak from a lab it just presents to you all the lab it just presents to you all the lab it just presents to you all the different hypotheses the amount of different hypotheses the amount of different hypotheses the amount of evidence available to it it's like it's evidence available to it it's like it's evidence available to it it's like it's like a full calm objective picture of it like a full calm objective picture of it like a full calm objective picture of it there's no partisanship it's like a there's no partisanship it's like a there's no partisanship it's like a really nice list of things that's really nice list of things that's really nice list of things that's available but I guess what I mean is available but I guess what I mean is available but I guess what I mean is does it tell you how as a thinking human does it tell you how as a thinking human does it tell you how as a thinking human you should evaluate the strength of each you should evaluate the strength of each you should evaluate the strength of each of the paragraphs it presents to you you of the paragraphs it presents to you you of the paragraphs it presents to you you can literally ask you can ask it to do can literally ask you can ask it to do can literally ask you can ask it to do oh Fair okay yeah and and then it's oh Fair okay yeah and and then it's oh Fair okay yeah and and then it's actually a actually a actually a fun it's fun to ask Chad GPT that fun it's fun to ask Chad GPT that fun it's fun to ask Chad GPT that question because you'll get good answers question because you'll get good answers question because you'll get good answers that and so you'll that and so you'll that and so you'll basically uh have a kind of Socratic basically uh have a kind of Socratic basically uh have a kind of Socratic like a a deep intimate like great like a a deep intimate like great like a a deep intimate like great podcast style conversation with an AI podcast style conversation with an AI podcast style conversation with an AI system every single day for as many system every single day for as many system every single day for as many hours as you want as it especially as it hours as you want as it especially as it hours as you want as it especially as it improves as and as the interfaces by improves as and as the interfaces by improves as and as the interfaces by which you communicate with the thing which you communicate with the thing which you communicate with the thing improves so yeah I think I think it will improves so yeah I think I think it will improves so yeah I think I think it will do exactly that which is teach you how do exactly that which is teach you how do exactly that which is teach you how to think because you will offload the to think because you will offload the to think because you will offload the memory of facts and um equations and memory of facts and um equations and memory of facts and um equations and whatever else uh School teaches you whatever else uh School teaches you whatever else uh School teaches you you'll offload that to Ai and instead you'll offload that to Ai and instead you'll offload that to Ai and instead you'll be using your human mind which is you'll be using your human mind which is you'll be using your human mind which is uh what it for now at least uniquely uh what it for now at least uniquely uh what it for now at least uniquely good at which is asking good questions good at which is asking good questions good at which is asking good questions thinking uh through the complexities of

thinking uh through the complexities of thinking uh through the complexities of issues when there's multiple issues when there's multiple issues when there's multiple perspectives on it all of that well then perspectives on it all of that well then perspectives on it all of that well then I stand corrected maybe then I don't I stand corrected maybe then I don't I stand corrected maybe then I don't know what college is going to be in 20 know what college is going to be in 20 know what college is going to be in 20 years well but you were sort of years well but you were sort of years well but you were sort of commenting it I see to the the financial commenting it I see to the the financial commenting it I see to the the financial aspect of it like why does it even make aspect of it like why does it even make aspect of it like why does it even make sense at this sense at this sense at this point I thinking about the point I thinking about the point I thinking about the transformative effects of AI and what transformative effects of AI and what transformative effects of AI and what starts to ask what is the what is even starts to ask what is the what is even starts to ask what is the what is even education right what are you supposed education right what are you supposed education right what are you supposed what is the purpose of education so one what is the purpose of education so one what is the purpose of education so one is to give you kind of a background is to give you kind of a background is to give you kind of a background knowledge of on a bunch of different knowledge of on a bunch of different knowledge of on a bunch of different topics but the other is to discover the topics but the other is to discover the topics but the other is to discover the thing you're truly passionate about and thing you're truly passionate about and thing you're truly passionate about and the thing you're really good at such the thing you're really good at such the thing you're really good at such that you can make money and you can that you can make money and you can that you can make money and you can contribute to society and have a contribute to society and have a contribute to society and have a fulfilling life yeah and also learning fulfilling life yeah and also learning fulfilling life yeah and also learning to interact with other people with to interact with other people with to interact with other people with relationships are built socializing and relationships are built socializing and relationships are built socializing and so many other things as well but is that so many other things as well but is that so many other things as well but is that you know that is the big value of you know that is the big value of you know that is the big value of University yeah and maybe you should be University yeah and maybe you should be University yeah and maybe you should be call something else can you get that for call something else can you get that for call something else can you get that for less than 200k a year somewhere else less than 200k a year somewhere else less than 200k a year somewhere else yeah no it's a fair question kind of yeah no it's a fair question kind of yeah no it's a fair question kind of social club and you know one of the social club and you know one of the social club and you know one of the things I think about also is people who things I think about also is people who things I think about also is people who are well connect I mean this has always are well connect I mean this has always are well connect I mean this has always been this isn't new right but if you're been this isn't new right but if you're been this isn't new right but if you're well-connected well-connected well-connected and you have a sort of drive towards and you have a sort of drive towards and you have a sort of drive towards entrepreneurship and doing your own entrepreneurship and doing your own entrepreneurship and doing your own thing and you're not pursuing a field thing and you're not pursuing a field thing and you're not pursuing a field that is very licensing dependent like that is very licensing dependent like that is very licensing dependent like medicine or law um getting started four medicine or law um getting started four medicine or law um getting started four years earlier with some internships can years earlier with some internships can years earlier with some internships can be a privilege in some cases but again be a privilege in some cases but again be a privilege in some cases but again that's that path is available to the that's that path is available to the that's that path is available to the people that would likely do well

people that would likely do well people that would likely do well regardless of whether they went to regardless of whether they went to regardless of whether they went to college and so it's a very privileged college and so it's a very privileged college and so it's a very privileged self- selected group self- selected group self- selected group anyway another question from Reddit uh anyway another question from Reddit uh anyway another question from Reddit uh uh ask David to explain why American uh ask David to explain why American uh ask David to explain why American style libertarianism is an unserious style libertarianism is an unserious style libertarianism is an unserious philosophy I don't know what they mean philosophy I don't know what they mean philosophy I don't know what they mean by American style libertarianism I've by American style libertarianism I've by American style libertarianism I've talked before about these kind of talked before about these kind of talked before about these kind of utopian Libertarians where uh you know utopian Libertarians where uh you know utopian Libertarians where uh you know we have we don't have police you just we have we don't have police you just we have we don't have police you just kind of like hire a for-profit company kind of like hire a for-profit company kind of like hire a for-profit company if you want protection and if there's a if you want protection and if there's a if you want protection and if there's a conflict between two of these private conflict between two of these private conflict between two of these private security companies then I don't know you security companies then I don't know you security companies then I don't know you figure it out somehow so it's almost figure it out somehow so it's almost figure it out somehow so it's almost like anarchism so take to that degree if like anarchism so take to that degree if like anarchism so take to that degree if by I don't know what the question means by I don't know what the question means by I don't know what the question means by that American style libertarianism by that American style libertarianism by that American style libertarianism but in general my problems with but in general my problems with but in general my problems with libertarianism as it is often presented libertarianism as it is often presented libertarianism as it is often presented come from the work of Sociology as well come from the work of Sociology as well come from the work of Sociology as well as human psychology which is the reality as human psychology which is the reality as human psychology which is the reality that once you get a group that's bigger that once you get a group that's bigger that once you get a group that's bigger than 150 PE people you really have to than 150 PE people you really have to than 150 PE people you really have to start centralizing some decisions unless start centralizing some decisions unless start centralizing some decisions unless you're going to subdivide the 150 you're going to subdivide the 150 you're going to subdivide the 150 endlessly into 275s that now no longer endlessly into 275s that now no longer endlessly into 275s that now no longer have contact but then that's not really have contact but then that's not really have contact but then that's not really one Society now it's too I've not seen one Society now it's too I've not seen one Society now it's too I've not seen good evidence and I've read a fair bit good evidence and I've read a fair bit good evidence and I've read a fair bit about this that once you get Beyond 150 about this that once you get Beyond 150 about this that once you get Beyond 150 you can keep all decisions decentralized you can keep all decisions decentralized you can keep all decisions decentralized and once you say some things need to be and once you say some things need to be and once you say some things need to be centralized then it's a matter of how

centralized then it's a matter of how centralized then it's a matter of how you do it and it's going to be some you do it and it's going to be some you do it and it's going to be some version of government that conflicts version of government that conflicts version of government that conflicts with aspects of with aspects of with aspects of libertarianism well it could become libertarianism well it could become libertarianism well it could become companes right it could be um it could companes right it could be um it could companes right it could be um it could be more Market driven which is the idea be more Market driven which is the idea be more Market driven which is the idea of anarchism that you're not you don't of anarchism that you're not you don't of anarchism that you're not you don't give any centralized entity a monopoly give any centralized entity a monopoly give any centralized entity a monopoly over over over violence you know and then if you think violence you know and then if you think violence you know and then if you think that the markets are that the markets are that the markets are efficient at delivering especially in efficient at delivering especially in efficient at delivering especially in this 21st century and this 21st century and this 21st century and beyond where a market could have perfect beyond where a market could have perfect beyond where a market could have perfect information about people so one of the information about people so one of the information about people so one of the issues is that you can manipulate issues is that you can manipulate issues is that you can manipulate markets because there's not not perfect markets because there's not not perfect markets because there's not not perfect information but now in the digital age information but now in the digital age information but now in the digital age we can uh we can we can uh we can we can uh we can be higher bandwidth participants in the be higher bandwidth participants in the be higher bandwidth participants in the market so if you're choosing between market so if you're choosing between market so if you're choosing between different security companies or you're different security companies or you're different security companies or you're choosing between different providers of choosing between different providers of choosing between different providers of different Services you can do so more different Services you can do so more different Services you can do so more efficiently and more effectively and uh efficiently and more effectively and uh efficiently and more effectively and uh in the digital space so you could kind in the digital space so you could kind in the digital space so you could kind of imagine it but we haven't of imagine it but we haven't of imagine it but we haven't successfully done successfully done successfully done it uh without governments yeah and I it uh without governments yeah and I it uh without governments yeah and I think there's a think there's a think there's a practical once you get Beyond 150 you practical once you get Beyond 150 you practical once you get Beyond 150 you also start also start also start specializing um it just as a matter of specializing um it just as a matter of specializing um it just as a matter of fact you don't have everybody isn't fact you don't have everybody isn't fact you don't have everybody isn't growing their own food some people grow growing their own food some people grow growing their own food some people grow the food and other people do other the food and other people do other the food and other people do other things and you come across a lot of the things and you come across a lot of the things and you come across a lot of the problems that started uh at the problems that started uh at the problems that started uh at the Agricultural Revolution and whether you Agricultural Revolution and whether you Agricultural Revolution and whether you say that it's a company that's solving say that it's a company that's solving say that it's a company that's solving it or a government the problems are

it or a government the problems are it or a government the problems are going to be very similar and I've not going to be very similar and I've not going to be very similar and I've not read anything that to my satisfaction read anything that to my satisfaction read anything that to my satisfaction explains how you deal with that well explains how you deal with that well explains how you deal with that well there's underlying principles of there's underlying principles of there's underlying principles of libertarianism which is putting priority libertarianism which is putting priority libertarianism which is putting priority at the freedom of the individual right at the freedom of the individual right at the freedom of the individual right and that's a compelling notion yeah and that's a compelling notion yeah and that's a compelling notion yeah whenever I do these various political whenever I do these various political whenever I do these various political Compass things that put you on two axes Compass things that put you on two axes Compass things that put you on two axes on the authoritarian libertarian axis I on the authoritarian libertarian axis I on the authoritarian libertarian axis I am way down on the libertarian side as a am way down on the libertarian side as a am way down on the libertarian side as a left libertarian so my Tendencies are left libertarian so my Tendencies are left libertarian so my Tendencies are always anti-authoritarian and and always anti-authoritarian and and always anti-authoritarian and and towards that option of uh when it makes towards that option of uh when it makes towards that option of uh when it makes sense so I sympathize with that a lot sense so I sympathize with that a lot sense so I sympathize with that a lot another question from Reddit ask David another question from Reddit ask David another question from Reddit ask David what issues he disagrees with you on is what issues he disagrees with you on is what issues he disagrees with you on is there something no idea okay that's good there something no idea okay that's good there something no idea okay that's good there there you go there's no issues there there you go there's no issues there there you go there's no issues perfect agreement uh what's your view on perfect agreement uh what's your view on perfect agreement uh what's your view on Tesla that's that's a good opportunity Tesla that's that's a good opportunity Tesla that's that's a good opportunity to ask what do you think is strengths to ask what do you think is strengths to ask what do you think is strengths and weaknesses of Elon Musk uh you and weaknesses of Elon Musk uh you and weaknesses of Elon Musk uh you mentioned Twitter have you paid your $8 mentioned Twitter have you paid your $8 mentioned Twitter have you paid your $8 I have not paid my $8 I don't see the I have not paid my $8 I don't see the I have not paid my $8 I don't see the point in paying for it I have no problem point in paying for it I have no problem point in paying for it I have no problem paying for services I use a ton of paying for services I use a ton of paying for services I use a ton of services I'll try the free I'll go to services I'll try the free I'll go to services I'll try the free I'll go to the paid um right now so the way I used the paid um right now so the way I used the paid um right now so the way I used to use the verified feed was I would to use the verified feed was I would to use the verified feed was I would post a tweet and then the next day when post a tweet and then the next day when post a tweet and then the next day when I you know review what's going on on my I you know review what's going on on my I you know review what's going on on my social media I would look at the replies social media I would look at the replies social media I would look at the replies to the Tweet which would give me a mix to the Tweet which would give me a mix to the Tweet which would give me a mix of replies from verified and unverified of replies from verified and unverified of replies from verified and unverified people but then I would also look at the people but then I would also look at the people but then I would also look at the verified and see who that

verified and see who that verified and see who that are verified public folks have responded are verified public folks have responded are verified public folks have responded to me or maybe I want to engage with or to me or maybe I want to engage with or to me or maybe I want to engage with or whatever the case may be there I don't whatever the case may be there I don't whatever the case may be there I don't even understand why I would look at the even understand why I would look at the even understand why I would look at the verified feed anymore so I never do verified feed anymore so I never do verified feed anymore so I never do because it's random folks who I don't because it's random folks who I don't because it's random folks who I don't know it it sort of lost its utility to know it it sort of lost its utility to know it it sort of lost its utility to me and then yeah sorry to interrupt but me and then yeah sorry to interrupt but me and then yeah sorry to interrupt but the idea is if everybody who's human the idea is if everybody who's human the idea is if everybody who's human pays the $8 it shows to you that it's pays the $8 it shows to you that it's pays the $8 it shows to you that it's not Bots it's at least humans from the not Bots it's at least humans from the not Bots it's at least humans from the reports about the number of people that reports about the number of people that reports about the number of people that have bought the blue check mark I think have bought the blue check mark I think have bought the blue check mark I think we may be a thousand years from enough we may be a thousand years from enough we may be a thousand years from enough signups in order to make that sort of signups in order to make that sort of signups in order to make that sort of like a reality I don't that was the idea like a reality I don't that was the idea like a reality I don't that was the idea that was the idea it's an interesting that was the idea it's an interesting that was the idea it's an interesting idea idea idea honestly from my experience the honestly from my experience the honestly from my experience the obviously I was seeing all sorts of obviously I was seeing all sorts of obviously I was seeing all sorts of attack comments some of which were I'm attack comments some of which were I'm attack comments some of which were I'm sure from Bots but I'm ignoring all of sure from Bots but I'm ignoring all of sure from Bots but I'm ignoring all of those comments anyway so it really those comments anyway so it really those comments anyway so it really didn't affect my my experience that much didn't affect my my experience that much didn't affect my my experience that much I mean here's the thing about Elon and I I mean here's the thing about Elon and I I mean here's the thing about Elon and I say this people sometimes are like David say this people sometimes are like David say this people sometimes are like David you you obviously hate Elon or you you you obviously hate Elon or you you you obviously hate Elon or you obviously love Elon I was an investor in obviously love Elon I was an investor in obviously love Elon I was an investor in Tesla starting in 2015 I've since sold Tesla starting in 2015 I've since sold Tesla starting in 2015 I've since sold all my shares MH great run um I'm on my all my shares MH great run um I'm on my all my shares MH great run um I'm on my second Tesla right now I probably won't second Tesla right now I probably won't second Tesla right now I probably won't get a third one because I think that get a third one because I think that get a third one because I think that electric vehicle technology is now electric vehicle technology is now electric vehicle technology is now maturing such that when my lease is up maturing such that when my lease is up maturing such that when my lease is up I'm going to have many more options with I'm going to have many more options with I'm going to have many more options with the range and charging Network that's the range and charging Network that's the range and charging Network that's important to me but I could be wrong important to me but I could be wrong important to me but I could be wrong maybe you know I don't know I have no maybe you know I don't know I have no maybe you know I don't know I have no the Cults of personality around people the Cults of personality around people the Cults of personality around people they mean nothing to me so for me it's

they mean nothing to me so for me it's they mean nothing to me so for me it's just like people are people nobody has just like people are people nobody has just like people are people nobody has only good ideas fine I think that what only good ideas fine I think that what only good ideas fine I think that what Elon Musk did accelerating and pushing Elon Musk did accelerating and pushing Elon Musk did accelerating and pushing forward the battery and electric vehicle forward the battery and electric vehicle forward the battery and electric vehicle technology is unbelievable it's it's a technology is unbelievable it's it's a technology is unbelievable it's it's a it's a oneperson it's a oneperson it's a oneperson wrecking ball in the best sense of wrecking ball in the best sense of wrecking ball in the best sense of saying we're not going to slow playay saying we're not going to slow playay saying we're not going to slow playay this and do okay now Toyota has a Toyota this and do okay now Toyota has a Toyota this and do okay now Toyota has a Toyota hasn't actually entered but now whoever hasn't actually entered but now whoever hasn't actually entered but now whoever we've got a 90 mile range car and next we've got a 90 mile range car and next we've got a 90 mile range car and next year it'll be 110 and it's just like year it'll be 110 and it's just like year it'll be 110 and it's just like we're doing this right now now you can we're doing this right now now you can we're doing this right now now you can compete or you can opt out and look at compete or you can opt out and look at compete or you can opt out and look at what's happened what's happened what's happened fantastic on the Twitter side of things fantastic on the Twitter side of things fantastic on the Twitter side of things I don't really get the whole plan I I don't really get the whole plan I I don't really get the whole plan I don't know if it started maybe as kind don't know if it started maybe as kind don't know if it started maybe as kind of a goof of some kind and it developed of a goof of some kind and it developed of a goof of some kind and it developed into I guess I have to buy it and I into I guess I have to buy it and I into I guess I have to buy it and I think something about it ended up with think something about it ended up with think something about it ended up with there was a clause invoked where I think there was a clause invoked where I think there was a clause invoked where I think he did try to get out of buying it but he did try to get out of buying it but he did try to get out of buying it but then was forced to to some degree yeah then was forced to to some degree yeah then was forced to to some degree yeah he was forced the way Twitter used to he was forced the way Twitter used to he was forced the way Twitter used to work was you followed people and when work was you followed people and when work was you followed people and when you looked at your feed you either saw you looked at your feed you either saw you looked at your feed you either saw the posts from the people you were the posts from the people you were the posts from the people you were following in Reverse chronological order following in Reverse chronological order following in Reverse chronological order or posts from the people you followed or posts from the people you followed or posts from the people you followed algorithmically tailored to what you're algorithmically tailored to what you're algorithmically tailored to what you're most likely to want to see MH and if you most likely to want to see MH and if you most likely to want to see MH and if you didn't follow someone you generally didn't follow someone you generally didn't follow someone you generally wouldn't see their posts unless it was wouldn't see their posts unless it was wouldn't see their posts unless it was like a sponsored tweet or someone you like a sponsored tweet or someone you like a sponsored tweet or someone you follow quoted or retweeted them fine the follow quoted or retweeted them fine the follow quoted or retweeted them fine the for you feed Tik Tok I believe First had for you feed Tik Tok I believe First had for you feed Tik Tok I believe First had a so-called for you feed the idea is

a so-called for you feed the idea is a so-called for you feed the idea is this is stuff you might like this is stuff you might like this is stuff you might like based on I don't know what either based on I don't know what either based on I don't know what either demographic data about you your other demographic data about you your other demographic data about you your other habits whatever and so it's useless to habits whatever and so it's useless to habits whatever and so it's useless to me it's just it's just basically mostly me it's just it's just basically mostly me it's just it's just basically mostly right-wing content that that is not right-wing content that that is not right-wing content that that is not interesting why do you think that is I interesting why do you think that is I interesting why do you think that is I mean so uh the the signals that are used mean so uh the the signals that are used mean so uh the the signals that are used to generate the for you page is looking to generate the for you page is looking to generate the for you page is looking at all your uh likes all your comments at all your uh likes all your comments at all your uh likes all your comments all your uh blocks and mutes and all all your uh blocks and mutes and all all your uh blocks and mutes and all that it you know that I mean I don't that it you know that I mean I don't that it you know that I mean I don't know what it's looking at okay so it's know what it's looking at okay so it's know what it's looking at okay so it's supposed to be very pleasant for you I'm supposed to be very pleasant for you I'm supposed to be very pleasant for you I'm sure other people go wow this for you sure other people go wow this for you sure other people go wow this for you thing is awesome and I'll get like if thing is awesome and I'll get like if thing is awesome and I'll get like if you had insert some right- Wier sitting you had insert some right- Wier sitting you had insert some right- Wier sitting here they would go Twitter used to here they would go Twitter used to here they would go Twitter used to suppress right-wing voices and now suppress right-wing voices and now suppress right-wing voices and now finally they're getting the fair shake finally they're getting the fair shake finally they're getting the fair shake that they deserve in the fur you feet that they deserve in the fur you feet that they deserve in the fur you feet okay I mean I I wonder if there's okay I mean I I wonder if there's okay I mean I I wonder if there's leftwing leftwing leftwing folks uh setting their feelings of Elon folks uh setting their feelings of Elon folks uh setting their feelings of Elon aside that are enjoying the for you page aside that are enjoying the for you page aside that are enjoying the for you page that's a really important question that's a really important question that's a really important question because it's supposed to be people on because it's supposed to be people on because it's supposed to be people on the left and people on the right should the left and people on the right should the left and people on the right should be enjoying the for you page sure yeah I be enjoying the for you page sure yeah I be enjoying the for you page sure yeah I mean so for me my thought on Elon is mean so for me my thought on Elon is mean so for me my thought on Elon is some incredible some incredible some incredible successes I don't know about Twitter I successes I don't know about Twitter I successes I don't know about Twitter I do think that I I don't believe Elon is do think that I I don't believe Elon is do think that I I don't believe Elon is a right winger and when you see a right winger and when you see a right winger and when you see interviews with him um certainly at interviews with him um certainly at interviews with him um certainly at least socially and in many ways least socially and in many ways least socially and in many ways culturally seems very moderate or even culturally seems very moderate or even culturally seems very moderate or even somewhat on the left in my experience I somewhat on the left in my experience I somewhat on the left in my experience I don't think it's elon's a right-winger I don't think it's elon's a right-winger I don't think it's elon's a right-winger I don't that it's not an interesting don't that it's not an interesting don't that it's not an interesting critique it does seem though that

critique it does seem though that critique it does seem though that throughout the Twitter Escapade he throughout the Twitter Escapade he throughout the Twitter Escapade he certainly ended up closer to some voices certainly ended up closer to some voices certainly ended up closer to some voices that may be influencing him in a that may be influencing him in a that may be influencing him in a particular way uh that's giving some particular way uh that's giving some particular way uh that's giving some people that impression you know but as people that impression you know but as people that impression you know but as far as like the Elon hate or the Elon far as like the Elon hate or the Elon far as like the Elon hate or the Elon love it's just it's just a person who's love it's just it's just a person who's love it's just it's just a person who's done some interesting things some of done some interesting things some of done some interesting things some of which I like and some of which I could which I like and some of which I could which I like and some of which I could kind of leave leave aside I have seen uh kind of leave leave aside I have seen uh kind of leave leave aside I have seen uh folks be drift towards the right more folks be drift towards the right more folks be drift towards the right more in response to just the viciousness of in response to just the viciousness of in response to just the viciousness of attacks from the left H like who I well attacks from the left H like who I well attacks from the left H like who I well Elon and so so you do you do think he's Elon and so so you do you do think he's Elon and so so you do you do think he's drifted towards the right uh in uh so I drifted towards the right uh in uh so I drifted towards the right uh in uh so I don't think at the core but I think on don't think at the core but I think on don't think at the core but I think on the surface okay I think uh and I think the surface okay I think uh and I think the surface okay I think uh and I think Joe Rogan has as well on the surface CU Joe Rogan has as well on the surface CU Joe Rogan has as well on the surface CU I think so maybe you can correct me but I think so maybe you can correct me but I think so maybe you can correct me but it feels like people on the left attack it feels like people on the left attack it feels like people on the left attack more more more viciously um that has not been my viciously um that has not been my viciously um that has not been my experience well oh it hasn't no this so experience well oh it hasn't no this so experience well oh it hasn't no this so so yeah let me know because my sense was so yeah let me know because my sense was so yeah let me know because my sense was that they attack people on the left that they attack people on the left that they attack people on the left viciously as well left attacks the it viciously as well left attacks the it viciously as well left attacks the it its own because you're not Progressive its own because you're not Progressive its own because you're not Progressive enough you're not uh you know it's just enough you're not uh you know it's just enough you're not uh you know it's just this kind of bullying that happens very this kind of bullying that happens very this kind of bullying that happens very intensely no you're 100% right that when intensely no you're 100% right that when intensely no you're 100% right that when the left has attacked me um it's almost the left has attacked me um it's almost the left has attacked me um it's almost as vicious as when the right attacks me as vicious as when the right attacks me as vicious as when the right attacks me the difference in my experience is it's

the difference in my experience is it's the difference in my experience is it's a smaller contingent on the left that's a smaller contingent on the left that's a smaller contingent on the left that's willing to Levy those attacks against me willing to Levy those attacks against me willing to Levy those attacks against me but I'm on the left so to some degree but I'm on the left so to some degree but I'm on the left so to some degree you could say well that that's to be you could say well that that's to be you could say well that that's to be expected um there is toxicity on the expected um there is toxicity on the expected um there is toxicity on the left but it's intense isn't it like left but it's intense isn't it like left but it's intense isn't it like that's what I mean like the attacks on that's what I mean like the attacks on that's what I mean like the attacks on people who are on the left just uh people who are on the left just uh people who are on the left just uh you're not left enough yeah that's no you're not left enough yeah that's no you're not left enough yeah that's no that's the and it is a small number of that's the and it is a small number of that's the and it is a small number of people I can't deny that that is people I can't deny that that is people I can't deny that that is absolutely uh absolutely a real absolutely uh absolutely a real absolutely uh absolutely a real phenomenon and and um it depending on phenomenon and and um it depending on phenomenon and and um it depending on what sort of topics you take on publicly what sort of topics you take on publicly what sort of topics you take on publicly you are going to suffer the wrath of you are going to suffer the wrath of you are going to suffer the wrath of that to a greater or or lesser degree that to a greater or or lesser degree that to a greater or or lesser degree but with all of these things what I but with all of these things what I but with all of these things what I always go back to is you know I probably always go back to is you know I probably always go back to is you know I probably would have more disagreements with Rogan would have more disagreements with Rogan would have more disagreements with Rogan today than the last time I was on his today than the last time I was on his today than the last time I was on his show which was like at the beginning of show which was like at the beginning of show which was like at the beginning of the pandemic but there would be zero and the pandemic but there would be zero and the pandemic but there would be zero and I've done Clips critical of things that I've done Clips critical of things that I've done Clips critical of things that he has said substantive of course to me he has said substantive of course to me he has said substantive of course to me it's sort of like oh yeah I could sit it's sort of like oh yeah I could sit it's sort of like oh yeah I could sit down with him and do a podcast and it down with him and do a podcast and it down with him and do a podcast and it would be zero big deal and I would tell would be zero big deal and I would tell would be zero big deal and I would tell them I stand by everything I said about them I stand by everything I said about them I stand by everything I said about what you said and I would say it to you what you said and I would say it to you what you said and I would say it to you right now there are people who write to right now there are people who write to right now there are people who write to me and go oh man things must be really me and go oh man things must be really me and go oh man things must be really really tense now if you were to Rogan really tense now if you were to Rogan really tense now if you were to Rogan would never have you on because you would never have you on because you would never have you on because you disagreed and it's he loves you I'm sure disagreed and it's he loves you I'm sure disagreed and it's he loves you I'm sure he's just not thinking of I'm not the he's just not thinking of I'm not the he's just not thinking of I'm not the most important thing to Joe Rogan I most important thing to Joe Rogan I most important thing to Joe Rogan I think both of us would be able to sit think both of us would be able to sit think both of us would be able to sit down and talk about every one of my down and talk about every one of my down and talk about every one of my criticisms it would not be taken criticisms it would not be taken criticisms it would not be taken personally and then we would move on and personally and then we would move on and personally and then we would move on and it would be the next day you get a a lot it would be the next day you get a a lot it would be the next day you get a a lot how do you not let that break you

how do you not let that break you how do you not let that break you mentally I don't know uh so let's mentally I don't know uh so let's mentally I don't know uh so let's see I try to I mean I'm in a toxic space see I try to I mean I'm in a toxic space see I try to I mean I'm in a toxic space the news in politics partisan news in the news in politics partisan news in the news in politics partisan news in politics partisan news and politics on politics partisan news and politics on politics partisan news and politics on the internet with a social media the internet with a social media the internet with a social media component just completely and totally component just completely and totally component just completely and totally toxic from a personal perspective when toxic from a personal perspective when toxic from a personal perspective when I'm done producing my last show of the I'm done producing my last show of the I'm done producing my last show of the week until Monday I try to completely week until Monday I try to completely week until Monday I try to completely tune out from news and politics tune out from news and politics tune out from news and politics altogether um and also make an effort to altogether um and also make an effort to altogether um and also make an effort to just not look at feedback and and what's just not look at feedback and and what's just not look at feedback and and what's going on I also really limit my Vis my going on I also really limit my Vis my going on I also really limit my Vis my visibility uh I don't need to read every visibility uh I don't need to read every visibility uh I don't need to read every comment I don't need to look at every comment I don't need to look at every comment I don't need to look at every email or every tweet I have 15 minutes email or every tweet I have 15 minutes email or every tweet I have 15 minutes each day where I go through my social each day where I go through my social each day where I go through my social media platforms look at generally what media platforms look at generally what media platforms look at generally what has the reaction has the reaction has the reaction been maybe include that in my assessment been maybe include that in my assessment been maybe include that in my assessment of how I want to tackle a certain issue of how I want to tackle a certain issue of how I want to tackle a certain issue if I missed a good point or something if I missed a good point or something if I missed a good point or something like that and basically try to move on like that and basically try to move on like that and basically try to move on when something like we talked about at when something like we talked about at when something like we talked about at the beginning happens it becomes the beginning happens it becomes the beginning happens it becomes obsessive I mean it's unhealthy right obsessive I mean it's unhealthy right obsessive I mean it's unhealthy right where I'm going oh my God who's where I'm going oh my God who's where I'm going oh my God who's attacking me now and scrolling it it attacking me now and scrolling it it attacking me now and scrolling it it becomes you know I'm sweating it's becomes you know I'm sweating it's becomes you know I'm sweating it's horrible but I think just like limiting horrible but I think just like limiting horrible but I think just like limiting exposure to that and remembering that it exposure to that and remembering that it exposure to that and remembering that it is impossible to please everybody and so is impossible to please everybody and so is impossible to please everybody and so I'd really rather have fresh genuine I'd really rather have fresh genuine I'd really rather have fresh genuine views each day rather than views that views each day rather than views that views each day rather than views that are sort of like uh restricted and are sort of like uh restricted and are sort of like uh restricted and flattened by what I perceive to be flattened by what I perceive to be flattened by what I perceive to be people's people's people's preferences uh so just can you speak a preferences uh so just can you speak a preferences uh so just can you speak a little more to the full process of

little more to the full process of little more to the full process of creating the David Pacman show like what creating the David Pacman show like what creating the David Pacman show like what you wake up because you're doing five you wake up because you're doing five you wake up because you're doing five shows a week I have the Letterman shows a week I have the Letterman shows a week I have the Letterman schedule which means I do five shows in schedule which means I do five shows in schedule which means I do five shows in four days I I shoot Monday to Thursday four days I I shoot Monday to Thursday four days I I shoot Monday to Thursday but we're doing five episodes basically but we're doing five episodes basically but we're doing five episodes basically uh our guests we schedule in advance I'm uh our guests we schedule in advance I'm uh our guests we schedule in advance I'm picking six to eight stories each day picking six to eight stories each day picking six to eight stories each day that are like I said a blend of stuff I that are like I said a blend of stuff I that are like I said a blend of stuff I think will be interesting think things I think will be interesting think things I think will be interesting think things I want to talk about and things where want to talk about and things where want to talk about and things where there's it's being discussed at one there's it's being discussed at one there's it's being discussed at one layer and I want to go deeper on it and layer and I want to go deeper on it and layer and I want to go deeper on it and I feel like I'm able to do that I choose I feel like I'm able to do that I choose I feel like I'm able to do that I choose those stories in the morning record in those stories in the morning record in those stories in the morning record in the early afternoon and we put the show the early afternoon and we put the show the early afternoon and we put the show out by that afternoon what the out by that afternoon what the out by that afternoon what the preparation what's the how do you take preparation what's the how do you take preparation what's the how do you take notes uh are you on a sheet of paper no notes uh are you on a sheet of paper no notes uh are you on a sheet of paper no sheets of paper anymore I used to do sheets of paper anymore I used to do sheets of paper anymore I used to do sheets of paper I found something about sheets of paper I found something about sheets of paper I found something about it like it worked the tactile nature of it like it worked the tactile nature of it like it worked the tactile nature of it it became inconvenient for sharing it it became inconvenient for sharing it it became inconvenient for sharing the notes with my team but basically we the notes with my team but basically we the notes with my team but basically we use a Wiki type system it's called media use a Wiki type system it's called media use a Wiki type system it's called media Wiki which is basically like a Wikipedia Wiki which is basically like a Wikipedia Wiki which is basically like a Wikipedia clone old school yeah old school so we clone old school yeah old school so we clone old school yeah old school so we can have Pages for every guest every can have Pages for every guest every can have Pages for every guest every topic oh that's interesting I haven't topic oh that's interesting I haven't topic oh that's interesting I haven't heard that yeah we I don't know anyone heard that yeah we I don't know anyone heard that yeah we I don't know anyone else who's using it it works really well else who's using it it works really well else who's using it it works really well it it's so fast and it takes up almost it it's so fast and it takes up almost it it's so fast and it takes up almost no space so it just is a really good no space so it just is a really good no space so it just is a really good Tool uh when my team you know when we Tool uh when my team you know when we Tool uh when my team you know when we book a guest and they have notes from book a guest and they have notes from book a guest and they have notes from the publicist they'll put it in there the publicist they'll put it in there the publicist they'll put it in there and then I can access it so I'm and then I can access it so I'm and then I can access it so I'm basically working off of notes rather basically working off of notes rather basically working off of notes rather than a script um I'll pull any audio

than a script um I'll pull any audio than a script um I'll pull any audio visual stuff that I want so that that's visual stuff that I want so that that's visual stuff that I want so that that's available um and it's I mean it's it's available um and it's I mean it's it's available um and it's I mean it's it's really a uh very seamless you know we're really a uh very seamless you know we're really a uh very seamless you know we're doing this every day four days a week doing this every day four days a week doing this every day four days a week and so we have it down to a well-oiled and so we have it down to a well-oiled and so we have it down to a well-oiled machine where do you get ideas from machine where do you get ideas from machine where do you get ideas from everywhere um I have a bunch of everywhere um I have a bunch of everywhere um I have a bunch of subreddits that I follow that I think subreddits that I follow that I think subreddits that I follow that I think are talking about interesting things I are talking about interesting things I are talking about interesting things I have a curated list for which I still have a curated list for which I still have a curated list for which I still use Twitter and it is very good for this use Twitter and it is very good for this use Twitter and it is very good for this it's a curated private list of it's a curated private list of it's a curated private list of journalists that I think are doing journalists that I think are doing journalists that I think are doing interesting work so I'll see what's interesting work so I'll see what's interesting work so I'll see what's there look at the sort of standard news there look at the sort of standard news there look at the sort of standard news reporting wire Services AP and Reuters reporting wire Services AP and Reuters reporting wire Services AP and Reuters glance at what um everything from drudge glance at what um everything from drudge glance at what um everything from drudge to CNN to whoever is covering that day to CNN to whoever is covering that day to CNN to whoever is covering that day look at Google look at Google look at Google News how do you try to fact check stuff News how do you try to fact check stuff News how do you try to fact check stuff on your show so like gu there source or on your show so like gu there source or on your show so like gu there source or is there a process I always try to get is there a process I always try to get is there a process I always try to get to a primary source first and foremost to a primary source first and foremost to a primary source first and foremost for the facts of the story and then I'll for the facts of the story and then I'll for the facts of the story and then I'll use other tools for background research use other tools for background research use other tools for background research oftentimes Wikipedia's footnotes I find oftentimes Wikipedia's footnotes I find oftentimes Wikipedia's footnotes I find to be useful tools chat GPT is a good to be useful tools chat GPT is a good to be useful tools chat GPT is a good one it I you really have to fact check one it I you really have to fact check one it I you really have to fact check it but it'll give you ideas of where to it but it'll give you ideas of where to it but it'll give you ideas of where to do the fact checking which I think is do the fact checking which I think is do the fact checking which I think is fantastic sometimes it gives me fantastic sometimes it gives me fantastic sometimes it gives me information that's flat out wrong and information that's flat out wrong and information that's flat out wrong and when you ask for the source it's like oh when you ask for the source it's like oh when you ask for the source it's like oh yeah that that actually is not real um yeah that that actually is not real um yeah that that actually is not real um which is hey it's part part of the which is hey it's part part of the which is hey it's part part of the process yeah but um and then when process yeah but um and then when process yeah but um and then when there's like an expertise type of thing there's like an expertise type of thing there's like an expertise type of thing if it's a breaking legal matter I'll

if it's a breaking legal matter I'll if it's a breaking legal matter I'll just call like a friend who's a lawyer just call like a friend who's a lawyer just call like a friend who's a lawyer or call a friend who's a doctor or or call a friend who's a doctor or or call a friend who's a doctor or something like that if it lends itself something like that if it lends itself something like that if it lends itself to that let me ask you about the nature to that let me ask you about the nature to that let me ask you about the nature of Truth do you think it's becoming more of Truth do you think it's becoming more of Truth do you think it's becoming more and more difficult to know what is true and more difficult to know what is true and more difficult to know what is true and will become continuously continue to and will become continuously continue to and will become continuously continue to get more difficult especially with GPT I get more difficult especially with GPT I get more difficult especially with GPT I think the big difficulty is in getting think the big difficulty is in getting think the big difficulty is in getting people to agree as to what is a people to agree as to what is a people to agree as to what is a statement of fact and what is a statement of fact and what is a statement of fact and what is a statement of opinion I think once we can statement of opinion I think once we can statement of opinion I think once we can do that reasonable people can more or do that reasonable people can more or do that reasonable people can more or less agree on how to get to the truth or less agree on how to get to the truth or less agree on how to get to the truth or if we can't get to it at least figure if we can't get to it at least figure if we can't get to it at least figure out how we would if the information were out how we would if the information were out how we would if the information were available but the the bigger challenge available but the the bigger challenge available but the the bigger challenge I'm having is someone will call in with I'm having is someone will call in with I'm having is someone will call in with an opinion but say they want to talk an opinion but say they want to talk an opinion but say they want to talk about fact and I have to explain to them about fact and I have to explain to them about fact and I have to explain to them you're talking about an opinion and not you're talking about an opinion and not you're talking about an opinion and not a fact and this goes back to the lack of a fact and this goes back to the lack of a fact and this goes back to the lack of critical thinking and lack of media critical thinking and lack of media critical thinking and lack of media literacy uh but that's the bigger literacy uh but that's the bigger literacy uh but that's the bigger challenge for me right now but I mean I challenge for me right now but I mean I challenge for me right now but I mean I think the big statements are always think the big statements are always think the big statements are always going to be somewhat opinions like going to be somewhat opinions like going to be somewhat opinions like um was the El was the 2020 election fair um was the El was the 2020 election fair um was the El was the 2020 election fair I think any answer to that is an opinion I think any answer to that is an opinion I think any answer to that is an opinion I disagree if we Define I disagree if we Define I disagree if we Define fair well yes so then I don't think it's fair well yes so then I don't think it's fair well yes so then I don't think it's possible to Define fair in a way that's possible to Define fair in a way that's possible to Define fair in a way that's not several paragraphs or each sentence not several paragraphs or each sentence not several paragraphs or each sentence it now has has facts right so what what

it now has has facts right so what what it now has has facts right so what what do you mean by fair is it uh who can do you mean by fair is it uh who can do you mean by fair is it uh who can show up to vote what was the process of show up to vote what was the process of show up to vote what was the process of how easy it is to vote uh was there how easy it is to vote uh was there how easy it is to vote uh was there actual uh cheating going on and actual uh cheating going on and actual uh cheating going on and different like what is the evidence of different like what is the evidence of different like what is the evidence of that cheating you have to actually get that cheating you have to actually get that cheating you have to actually get to the actual like details of a thing to the actual like details of a thing to the actual like details of a thing high level you know uh everything is high level you know uh everything is high level you know uh everything is just going to be in opinion it feels just going to be in opinion it feels just going to be in opinion it feels like like you and you can approximate like like you and you can approximate like like you and you can approximate that to be like it's a well-founded that to be like it's a well-founded that to be like it's a well-founded opinion well most of science is an opinion well most of science is an opinion well most of science is an opinion even physics is an opinion so opinion even physics is an opinion so opinion even physics is an opinion so like I think there's a threshold Beyond like I think there's a threshold Beyond like I think there's a threshold Beyond which an opinion becomes like uh this is which an opinion becomes like uh this is which an opinion becomes like uh this is a pretty reliable thing to assume for a pretty reliable thing to assume for a pretty reliable thing to assume for now that this is true okay so let me now that this is true okay so let me now that this is true okay so let me revise so I think maybe better said I revise so I think maybe better said I revise so I think maybe better said I think that the think that the think that the difficulty I mean it it is ex the difficulty I mean it it is ex the difficulty I mean it it is ex the process you described is probably the process you described is probably the process you described is probably the right process and it's it's exhausting right process and it's it's exhausting right process and it's it's exhausting for mundane things and that causes major for mundane things and that causes major for mundane things and that causes major problems if we were to problems if we were to problems if we were to say is it better for the economy to have say is it better for the economy to have say is it better for the economy to have a tax rate on people making over a a tax rate on people making over a a tax rate on people making over a million dollars that's 20% or 50% okay million dollars that's 20% or 50% okay million dollars that's 20% or 50% okay what do we mean by better for the what do we mean by better for the what do we mean by better for the economy it's not a overwhelming task to economy it's not a overwhelming task to economy it's not a overwhelming task to decide on that we could say well we'll decide on that we could say well we'll decide on that we could say well we'll say it's better for the economy by say it's better for the economy by say it's better for the economy by looking at what was the uny employment looking at what was the uny employment looking at what was the uny employment rate based on the taxx rate on million rate based on the taxx rate on million rate based on the taxx rate on million you know people earning a million a year you know people earning a million a year you know people earning a million a year and what was GDP and whatever okay we've and what was GDP and whatever okay we've and what was GDP and whatever okay we've we've agreed this is a statement we are we've agreed this is a statement we are we've agreed this is a statement we are now in the realm of just determining

now in the realm of just determining now in the realm of just determining what is given the parameters that we've what is given the parameters that we've what is given the parameters that we've established I think that that's that's established I think that that's that's established I think that that's that's relatively doable the issue is with the relatively doable the issue is with the relatively doable the issue is with the bigger ones like you're talking about bigger ones like you're talking about bigger ones like you're talking about where what do we mean by a fair election where what do we mean by a fair election where what do we mean by a fair election and fair in whose eyes and but I I am and fair in whose eyes and but I I am and fair in whose eyes and but I I am with you that it often devolves evolves with you that it often devolves evolves with you that it often devolves evolves into a conversation about opinions about into a conversation about opinions about into a conversation about opinions about what is fair yeah rather than an what is fair yeah rather than an what is fair yeah rather than an ascertainment of the facts yeah and it ascertainment of the facts yeah and it ascertainment of the facts yeah and it feels like maybe avoiding some of these feels like maybe avoiding some of these feels like maybe avoiding some of these big maybe there's some trigger words too big maybe there's some trigger words too big maybe there's some trigger words too maybe avoiding them allows you to maybe avoiding them allows you to maybe avoiding them allows you to actually talk about the facts and actually talk about the facts and actually talk about the facts and through that educate yourself and learn through that educate yourself and learn through that educate yourself and learn about like uh whether the virus leaked about like uh whether the virus leaked about like uh whether the virus leaked from a lab or not to me was always a from a lab or not to me was always a from a lab or not to me was always a super interesting question I don't know super interesting question I don't know super interesting question I don't know why everybody got super touchy about it why everybody got super touchy about it why everybody got super touchy about it uh mostly people I know colleagues uh mostly people I know colleagues uh mostly people I know colleagues biologists biologists biologists thought it's pretty good likelihood that thought it's pretty good likelihood that thought it's pretty good likelihood that it leaked from a lab given everything it leaked from a lab given everything it leaked from a lab given everything they just didn't the evidence is not they just didn't the evidence is not they just didn't the evidence is not there for either one and so like you there for either one and so like you there for either one and so like you should be able to just openly talk about should be able to just openly talk about should be able to just openly talk about it unless you're in the uh High it unless you're in the uh High it unless you're in the uh High political office where there could be political office where there could be political office where there could be geopolitical consequences to your geopolitical consequences to your geopolitical consequences to your statements but in general it's an statements but in general it's an statements but in general it's an interesting question you should be able interesting question you should be able interesting question you should be able to talk about it but there's no first of to talk about it but there's no first of to talk about it but there's no first of all there's not many facts around there all there's not many facts around there all there's not many facts around there unfortunately um and a lot of very unfortunately um and a lot of very unfortunately um and a lot of very conclusive statements about it conclusive statements about it conclusive statements about it especially in the early days were just especially in the early days were just especially in the early days were just opinions and so you you have opinions and so you you have opinions and so you you have to the idea of what is true or not to the idea of what is true or not to the idea of what is true or not becomes a little even mentioning the becomes a little even mentioning the becomes a little even mentioning the word truth in that context it feels

word truth in that context it feels word truth in that context it feels um divisive yeah I completely agree with um divisive yeah I completely agree with um divisive yeah I completely agree with you which is strange like it really you you which is strange like it really you you which is strange like it really you think it shouldn't one of the really think it shouldn't one of the really think it shouldn't one of the really good opening questions that I've had good opening questions that I've had good opening questions that I've had work to my advantage when talking with work to my advantage when talking with work to my advantage when talking with people who I know disagree with me about people who I know disagree with me about people who I know disagree with me about a contentious talk topic is how do you a contentious talk topic is how do you a contentious talk topic is how do you think we would figure out X and it often think we would figure out X and it often think we would figure out X and it often gets people thinking first gets people thinking first gets people thinking first collaboratively and obviously we might collaboratively and obviously we might collaboratively and obviously we might have very different opinions but with have very different opinions but with have very different opinions but with something like the covid lab leak I something like the covid lab leak I something like the covid lab leak I think it's an interesting one because if think it's an interesting one because if think it's an interesting one because if you say okay maybe it leaked maybe it you say okay maybe it leaked maybe it you say okay maybe it leaked maybe it didn't how would we figure that out who didn't how would we figure that out who didn't how would we figure that out who would we trust to weigh in on that what would we trust to weigh in on that what would we trust to weigh in on that what evidence would count now we're kind of evidence would count now we're kind of evidence would count now we're kind of on the same team MH and then if we can on the same team MH and then if we can on the same team MH and then if we can establish that then we're on a search establish that then we're on a search establish that then we're on a search for Capital te truth together or for Capital te truth together or for Capital te truth together or whatever it's kind of pie in the sky but whatever it's kind of pie in the sky but whatever it's kind of pie in the sky but in some conversations I've actually had in some conversations I've actually had in some conversations I've actually had success with that and then you can kind success with that and then you can kind success with that and then you can kind of of of realize if uh if there's no amount of realize if uh if there's no amount of realize if uh if there's no amount of evidence that's going to prove show to evidence that's going to prove show to evidence that's going to prove show to you that you're wrong in your current you that you're wrong in your current you that you're wrong in your current opinion that that's probably a really opinion that that's probably a really opinion that that's probably a really bad sign for you it's a waste it it may bad sign for you it's a waste it it may bad sign for you it's a waste it it may be a waste to pursue the conversation be a waste to pursue the conversation be a waste to pursue the conversation further at that point yeah yeah what oh further at that point yeah yeah what oh further at that point yeah yeah what oh so okay you think Trump was a good so okay you think Trump was a good so okay you think Trump was a good president how do you determine that and president how do you determine that and president how do you determine that and what evidence might exist that would what evidence might exist that would what evidence might exist that would change your mind there is no evidence change your mind there is no evidence change your mind there is no evidence Trump was the best president ever I Trump was the best president ever I Trump was the best president ever I think the conversation is probably done think the conversation is probably done think the conversation is probably done except Abraham Lincoln right uh you except Abraham Lincoln right uh you except Abraham Lincoln right uh you mentioned Israel Palestine well what do mentioned Israel Palestine well what do mentioned Israel Palestine well what do you think about the situation in Israel you think about the situation in Israel you think about the situation in Israel and Palestine something you've thought and Palestine something you've thought and Palestine something you've thought about spoken about for quite a time do about spoken about for quite a time do about spoken about for quite a time do you think we'll ever see peace in this

you think we'll ever see peace in this you think we'll ever see peace in this part of the world I don't know you know part of the world I don't know you know part of the world I don't know you know I mean I could say yes not answer I I mean I could say yes not answer I I mean I could say yes not answer I could say yes I I the you know one of could say yes I I the you know one of could say yes I I the you know one of the problems is and I'll give you may the problems is and I'll give you may the problems is and I'll give you may not know that not know that not know that the there are people on the left of my the there are people on the left of my the there are people on the left of my audience who call me a Netanyahu shill audience who call me a Netanyahu shill audience who call me a Netanyahu shill even though I've never been a supporter even though I've never been a supporter even though I've never been a supporter of Netanyahu and I'm I'm on the left I of Netanyahu and I'm I'm on the left I of Netanyahu and I'm I'm on the left I just don't think that some of the uh just don't think that some of the uh just don't think that some of the uh kind of black and white kind of black and white kind of black and white characterizations about Israel are even characterizations about Israel are even characterizations about Israel are even remotely accurate and I think most remotely accurate and I think most remotely accurate and I think most people it's become a sort of litmus test people it's become a sort of litmus test people it's become a sort of litmus test are you criticizing Israel enough are are you criticizing Israel enough are are you criticizing Israel enough are you showing us that you're actually you showing us that you're actually you showing us that you're actually leftwing I don't do any of that stuff I leftwing I don't do any of that stuff I leftwing I don't do any of that stuff I really look at the situation for what it really look at the situation for what it really look at the situation for what it is that's become a Lous test in American is that's become a Lous test in American is that's become a Lous test in American politics uh in the spectrum of American politics uh in the spectrum of American politics uh in the spectrum of American politics yes um my view big picture is politics yes um my view big picture is politics yes um my view big picture is that uh I don't think we're going to that uh I don't think we're going to that uh I don't think we're going to really get anywhere until some really get anywhere until some really get anywhere until some pre-negotiated terms are set and the pre-negotiated terms are set and the pre-negotiated terms are set and the parties to do the negotiating are all parties to do the negotiating are all parties to do the negotiating are all good faith parties for example I don't good faith parties for example I don't good faith parties for example I don't think Israel's right-wing party leud is think Israel's right-wing party leud is think Israel's right-wing party leud is a particularly goodfaith Arbiter of a particularly goodfaith Arbiter of a particularly goodfaith Arbiter of Peace because I think leud benefits from Peace because I think leud benefits from Peace because I think leud benefits from there not being peace and the threat of there not being peace and the threat of there not being peace and the threat of violence and there is violence it's not violence and there is violence it's not violence and there is violence it's not just the threat of violence I don't just the threat of violence I don't just the threat of violence I don't think Hamas is going to be an Arbiter of

think Hamas is going to be an Arbiter of think Hamas is going to be an Arbiter of peace for the Palestinian people either peace for the Palestinian people either peace for the Palestinian people either I think the Palestinian Authority is a I think the Palestinian Authority is a I think the Palestinian Authority is a question mark I'm not sure so I think question mark I'm not sure so I think question mark I'm not sure so I think that there need to be some preconditions that there need to be some preconditions that there need to be some preconditions that would need to be set with regard to that would need to be set with regard to that would need to be set with regard to everything from settlements to you a lot everything from settlements to you a lot everything from settlements to you a lot of this minutia big picture though if I of this minutia big picture though if I of this minutia big picture though if I imagine what the most likely solution imagine what the most likely solution imagine what the most likely solution looks like it doesn't mean it's a looks like it doesn't mean it's a looks like it doesn't mean it's a perfect solution and obviously it's a perfect solution and obviously it's a perfect solution and obviously it's a solution many people will say it's not solution many people will say it's not solution many people will say it's not it's not going to happen I think it's a it's not going to happen I think it's a it's not going to happen I think it's a solution where the borders are similar solution where the borders are similar solution where the borders are similar to what was being discussed in the to what was being discussed in the to what was being discussed in the Clinton era to some degree as many of Clinton era to some degree as many of Clinton era to some degree as many of the settlements as possible have to go the settlements as possible have to go the settlements as possible have to go understanding that some of the bigger understanding that some of the bigger understanding that some of the bigger ones are just not going to go and ones are just not going to go and ones are just not going to go and there's going to have to be meaningful there's going to have to be meaningful there's going to have to be meaningful land swaps with Y which yasur Arafat land swaps with Y which yasur Arafat land swaps with Y which yasur Arafat seemed to be amenable to when he weighed seemed to be amenable to when he weighed seemed to be amenable to when he weighed in on it I believe it was in the 90s the in on it I believe it was in the 90s the in on it I believe it was in the 90s the topic of um the Temple Mount and topic of um the Temple Mount and topic of um the Temple Mount and Jerusalem Etc is a complicated one but I Jerusalem Etc is a complicated one but I Jerusalem Etc is a complicated one but I think that almost certainly um East think that almost certainly um East think that almost certainly um East Jerusalem is going to have to be part of Jerusalem is going to have to be part of Jerusalem is going to have to be part of an eventual Palestinian State you know I an eventual Palestinian State you know I an eventual Palestinian State you know I mean like we can go as kind of as far as mean like we can go as kind of as far as mean like we can go as kind of as far as as we want to with a lot of this stuff as we want to with a lot of this stuff as we want to with a lot of this stuff what role does us have to play in this what role does us have to play in this what role does us have to play in this coming to the table with good faith coming to the table with good faith coming to the table with good faith parties I don't know whether the I go parties I don't know whether the I go parties I don't know whether the I go back and forth between believing that back and forth between believing that back and forth between believing that the US should play a big role to the US the US should play a big role to the US the US should play a big role to the US should play essentially no role should play essentially no role should play essentially no role whatsoever because uh of course of the whatsoever because uh of course of the whatsoever because uh of course of the funding of uh Israel that the US

funding of uh Israel that the US funding of uh Israel that the US provides will the u i don't it's not provides will the u i don't it's not provides will the u i don't it's not that I have a personal problem with that I have a personal problem with that I have a personal problem with American involvement and somebody like American involvement and somebody like American involvement and somebody like Bill Clinton was arguably relatively Bill Clinton was arguably relatively Bill Clinton was arguably relatively well positioned to try to make something well positioned to try to make something well positioned to try to make something happen it's more just will there will it happen it's more just will there will it happen it's more just will there will it be seen as credible on the global stage be seen as credible on the global stage be seen as credible on the global stage and that's I think the most important and that's I think the most important and that's I think the most important thing because at the end of whatever thing because at the end of whatever thing because at the end of whatever negotiation takes place both sides need negotiation takes place both sides need negotiation takes place both sides need to agree that this is where we are to agree that this is where we are to agree that this is where we are renouncing all past claims and in the renouncing all past claims and in the renouncing all past claims and in the future if there's a disagreement we future if there's a disagreement we future if there's a disagreement we can't go back to that thing from the 80s can't go back to that thing from the 80s can't go back to that thing from the 80s or the 90s that's just like a critical or the 90s that's just like a critical or the 90s that's just like a critical piece of this yeah it it has to be piece of this yeah it it has to be piece of this yeah it it has to be stable and uh you know um materialize stable and uh you know um materialize stable and uh you know um materialize into something stable over years yes another difficult conflict going on in another difficult conflict going on in the world is the war in Ukraine what do the world is the war in Ukraine what do the world is the war in Ukraine what do you think about the Russian invasion of you think about the Russian invasion of you think about the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February Ukraine in February Ukraine in February 2022 I don't pretend to be an expert on 2022 I don't pretend to be an expert on 2022 I don't pretend to be an expert on this issue I think you probably know this issue I think you probably know this issue I think you probably know more about this than I do just from the more about this than I do just from the more about this than I do just from the brief conversation we had before we brief conversation we had before we brief conversation we had before we started filming my view as a general started filming my view as a general started filming my view as a general Observer of geopolitics and the way that Observer of geopolitics and the way that Observer of geopolitics and the way that this area this part of the world has this area this part of the world has this area this part of the world has related to American Presidents over the related to American Presidents over the related to American Presidents over the last several you know Cycles is I don't last several you know Cycles is I don't last several you know Cycles is I don't think it's controversial to say that think it's controversial to say that think it's controversial to say that this was a war of aggression an invasion this was a war of aggression an invasion this was a war of aggression an invasion of aggression an act of aggression by of aggression an act of aggression by of aggression an act of aggression by Vladimir Putin um I do believe that if Vladimir Putin um I do believe that if Vladimir Putin um I do believe that if Trump had been Trump had been Trump had been reelected Putin may have seen himself as

reelected Putin may have seen himself as reelected Putin may have seen himself as having other tools with which to try to having other tools with which to try to having other tools with which to try to um expand influence that may have been um expand influence that may have been um expand influence that may have been different than geographical uh Pursuits different than geographical uh Pursuits different than geographical uh Pursuits Geographic Pursuits uh but I we don't Geographic Pursuits uh but I we don't Geographic Pursuits uh but I we don't know that for sure um I also have a know that for sure um I also have a know that for sure um I also have a really hard time imagining what the end really hard time imagining what the end really hard time imagining what the end of this looks like and that's very scary of this looks like and that's very scary of this looks like and that's very scary because sometimes the most benign end because sometimes the most benign end because sometimes the most benign end seems to be that Putin ends up out of seems to be that Putin ends up out of seems to be that Putin ends up out of power either through no longer being power either through no longer being power either through no longer being alive uh or deposed in some way it alive uh or deposed in some way it alive uh or deposed in some way it doesn't feel like that latter is super doesn't feel like that latter is super doesn't feel like that latter is super likely the former there's reports about likely the former there's reports about likely the former there's reports about his health I don't know how accurate his health I don't know how accurate his health I don't know how accurate they are it's just hard to imagine a they are it's just hard to imagine a they are it's just hard to imagine a face saving exit that is going to be um face saving exit that is going to be um face saving exit that is going to be um even even even remotely uh what's the word it's not remotely uh what's the word it's not remotely uh what's the word it's not even a question of acceptable just um even a question of acceptable just um even a question of acceptable just um it's not satisfying either just just not it's not satisfying either just just not it's not satisfying either just just not tragic I guess is what I'm looking for tragic I guess is what I'm looking for tragic I guess is what I'm looking for in terms of uh Putin speaking to the in terms of uh Putin speaking to the in terms of uh Putin speaking to the Russian people and being able to figure Russian people and being able to figure Russian people and being able to figure out what to say what kind of narrative out what to say what kind of narrative out what to say what kind of narrative to say why this war made sense yes um to say why this war made sense yes um to say why this war made sense yes um the same on the Ukrainian side to figure the same on the Ukrainian side to figure the same on the Ukrainian side to figure out how to exit this war yes uh I mean out how to exit this war yes uh I mean out how to exit this war yes uh I mean to some degree it requires Russian to some degree it requires Russian to some degree it requires Russian troops leaving Ukraine and that is troops leaving Ukraine and that is troops leaving Ukraine and that is somewhat under the control I mean of somewhat under the control I mean of somewhat under the control I mean of course it's not up to Ukraine whether course it's not up to Ukraine whether course it's not up to Ukraine whether the initiative continues but what I am

the initiative continues but what I am the initiative continues but what I am not thrilled with are some of the not thrilled with are some of the not thrilled with are some of the reflexive you know if Trump had been in reflexive you know if Trump had been in reflexive you know if Trump had been in power and instead of Joe Biden a lot of power and instead of Joe Biden a lot of power and instead of Joe Biden a lot of the the the reflexive uh comments about oh you're if reflexive uh comments about oh you're if reflexive uh comments about oh you're if you if you say Ukraine is just acting you if you say Ukraine is just acting you if you say Ukraine is just acting defensively you're supporting neo-nazis defensively you're supporting neo-nazis defensively you're supporting neo-nazis or some of these things that have come or some of these things that have come or some of these things that have come out of the American Republican party out of the American Republican party out of the American Republican party seem both wacky and like they would be seem both wacky and like they would be seem both wacky and like they would be saying completely different things if saying completely different things if saying completely different things if Trump happened to be in the Oval Office Trump happened to be in the Oval Office Trump happened to be in the Oval Office they're really proxy attacks on Joe they're really proxy attacks on Joe they're really proxy attacks on Joe Biden yeah well that in some sense Biden yeah well that in some sense Biden yeah well that in some sense Ukraine is also kind of political litmus Ukraine is also kind of political litmus Ukraine is also kind of political litmus test test test of how you speak about it I think of how you speak about it I think of how you speak about it I think because of the huge amount of funding because of the huge amount of funding because of the huge amount of funding that's going uh from us to that's going uh from us to that's going uh from us to Ukraine um maybe you can correct me if Ukraine um maybe you can correct me if Ukraine um maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong um but it seems to it seems to I'm wrong um but it seems to it seems to I'm wrong um but it seems to it seems to me that this topic has become me that this topic has become me that this topic has become politicized already 100% there are politicized already 100% there are politicized already 100% there are people like Marjorie Taylor green and people like Marjorie Taylor green and people like Marjorie Taylor green and others saying we should be doing nothing others saying we should be doing nothing others saying we should be doing nothing for Ukraine zilinski is a comedian and for Ukraine zilinski is a comedian and for Ukraine zilinski is a comedian and we're supporting neonazis that's it full we're supporting neonazis that's it full we're supporting neonazis that's it full stop and you either subscribe to that um stop and you either subscribe to that um stop and you either subscribe to that um or you don't and it very quickly becomes or you don't and it very quickly becomes or you don't and it very quickly becomes um it very quickly becomes as partisan um it very quickly becomes as partisan um it very quickly becomes as partisan as so many other issues and it's really as so many other issues and it's really as so many other issues and it's really the the most disappointing thing is that the the most disappointing thing is that the the most disappointing thing is that some of these issues become incredibly some of these issues become incredibly some of these issues become incredibly divisive divisive but they're simple divisive divisive but they're simple divisive divisive but they're simple like for example a conspiracy theory like for example a conspiracy theory like for example a conspiracy theory that we know isn't true it shouldn't be that we know isn't true it shouldn't be that we know isn't true it shouldn't be divisive divisive because it's so simple divisive divisive because it's so simple divisive divisive because it's so simple other issues become divisive and they other issues become divisive and they other issues become divisive and they are simplified but in reality they are are simplified but in reality they are are simplified but in reality they are extraordinarily complex and you lose the

extraordinarily complex and you lose the extraordinarily complex and you lose the ability to talk about the complexity ability to talk about the complexity ability to talk about the complexity because they're becoming partisan uh do because they're becoming partisan uh do because they're becoming partisan uh do you think there will always be war in you think there will always be war in you think there will always be war in the world as a bunch of folks on the the world as a bunch of folks on the the world as a bunch of folks on the subreddit that were interested in your subreddit that were interested in your subreddit that were interested in your different complex perspectives on different complex perspectives on different complex perspectives on foreign policy so let's talk about war foreign policy so let's talk about war foreign policy so let's talk about war you look at the war in you look at the war in you look at the war in Ukraine you look at what's going on in Ukraine you look at what's going on in Ukraine you look at what's going on in Israel and Palestine you look at the Israel and Palestine you look at the Israel and Palestine you look at the wars across the world do you think there wars across the world do you think there wars across the world do you think there will always be War as a redditor put it will always be War as a redditor put it will always be War as a redditor put it is it a necessary evil in the game of is it a necessary evil in the game of is it a necessary evil in the game of geopolitics I used to have what I now geopolitics I used to have what I now geopolitics I used to have what I now believe is an extremely naive believe is an extremely naive believe is an extremely naive perspective perspective perspective which is that if we which is that if we which is that if we somehow if Al intelligent aliens arrived somehow if Al intelligent aliens arrived somehow if Al intelligent aliens arrived here it would be so momentous for Homo here it would be so momentous for Homo here it would be so momentous for Homo sapiens that all of our differences sapiens that all of our differences sapiens that all of our differences would immediately be exposed to so would immediately be exposed to so would immediately be exposed to so insignificant we would never fight again insignificant we would never fight again insignificant we would never fight again and we would realize that intelligent and we would realize that intelligent and we would realize that intelligent life and then I spoke to people who deal life and then I spoke to people who deal life and then I spoke to people who deal in space exploration and other other in space exploration and other other in space exploration and other other scientists and they all said that David scientists and they all said that David scientists and they all said that David that's extraordinarily naive there would that's extraordinarily naive there would that's extraordinarily naive there would be a period during which this was as be a period during which this was as be a period during which this was as momentous as you're imagining and then momentous as you're imagining and then momentous as you're imagining and then it would become normal and then we would it would become normal and then we would it would become normal and then we would go back to many of the same conflicts go back to many of the same conflicts go back to many of the same conflicts that we have now sectarian Etc yeah I that we have now sectarian Etc yeah I that we have now sectarian Etc yeah I think that in all likelihood there will think that in all likelihood there will think that in all likelihood there will always be conflict between factions always be conflict between factions always be conflict between factions whether it's what we currently think of whether it's what we currently think of whether it's what we currently think of as War probably not I mean it seems as as War probably not I mean it seems as as War probably not I mean it seems as though the tactics will evolve and it though the tactics will evolve and it though the tactics will evolve and it will be less about missiles and I don't

will be less about missiles and I don't will be less about missiles and I don't know where it's going to go I don't know know where it's going to go I don't know know where it's going to go I don't know whether it's going to be become more whether it's going to be become more whether it's going to be become more biological or cyber or certainly biological or cyber or certainly biological or cyber or certainly something we haven't even considered yet something we haven't even considered yet something we haven't even considered yet but um I think there will always be but um I think there will always be but um I think there will always be conflicts we would refer to in that way conflicts we would refer to in that way conflicts we would refer to in that way do you agree with chsky on the his do you agree with chsky on the his do you agree with chsky on the his General harsh criticism of US foreign General harsh criticism of US foreign General harsh criticism of US foreign policy in war that many actions military policy in war that many actions military policy in war that many actions military actions in the United States are actions in the United States are actions in the United States are criminal in nature almost terrorist in criminal in nature almost terrorist in criminal in nature almost terrorist in nature I am not it's been a decade or nature I am not it's been a decade or nature I am not it's been a decade or more since I've read any Chomsky and I more since I've read any Chomsky and I more since I've read any Chomsky and I don't keep up with everything that he don't keep up with everything that he don't keep up with everything that he has recently said so I don't want to has recently said so I don't want to has recently said so I don't want to mischaracterize any of it in general mischaracterize any of it in general mischaracterize any of it in general Americans are um sold to view that we're Americans are um sold to view that we're Americans are um sold to view that we're the good guys spreading Freedom across the good guys spreading Freedom across the good guys spreading Freedom across the world and no chsky takes a the world and no chsky takes a the world and no chsky takes a perspective that yeah but if you look at perspective that yeah but if you look at perspective that yeah but if you look at the number of civilians you kill while the number of civilians you kill while the number of civilians you kill while doing it it's incomparable to any other doing it it's incomparable to any other doing it it's incomparable to any other military actions across the world right military actions across the world right military actions across the world right so I very much disagree with those who so I very much disagree with those who so I very much disagree with those who take the view that the US is this um take the view that the US is this um take the view that the US is this um wonderful Global police force that's wonderful Global police force that's wonderful Global police force that's spreading democracy and fixing problems spreading democracy and fixing problems spreading democracy and fixing problems very very much wrong I think where I've very very much wrong I think where I've very very much wrong I think where I've had disagreements with trky in the past had disagreements with trky in the past had disagreements with trky in the past is more he frame he seems to frame the is more he frame he seems to frame the is more he frame he seems to frame the us as a uniquely bad actor in some of us as a uniquely bad actor in some of us as a uniquely bad actor in some of these cases and I think it's more an these cases and I think it's more an these cases and I think it's more an outcropping of the size and wealth of outcropping of the size and wealth of outcropping of the size and wealth of the US and less about uniquely negative the US and less about uniquely negative the US and less about uniquely negative intentions and so I think that would be

intentions and so I think that would be intentions and so I think that would be my general disagreement with chsky based my general disagreement with chsky based my general disagreement with chsky based on stuff I read a decade ago well he on stuff I read a decade ago well he on stuff I read a decade ago well he says that he lives in the United States says that he lives in the United States says that he lives in the United States he's an American and so he feels his he's an American and so he feels his he's an American and so he feels his focus of criticism should be in America focus of criticism should be in America focus of criticism should be in America and I think that's one of the great and I think that's one of the great and I think that's one of the great things about being an American and being things about being an American and being things about being an American and being in in in America is the freedom to criticize America is the freedom to criticize America is the freedom to criticize harshly sure uh while being a university harshly sure uh while being a university harshly sure uh while being a university Professor by the way um he's basically Professor by the way um he's basically Professor by the way um he's basically the embodiment of why 10 years is a the embodiment of why 10 years is a the embodiment of why 10 years is a really valuable thing I agree whether really valuable thing I agree whether really valuable thing I agree whether you agree with him or not uh question you agree with him or not uh question you agree with him or not uh question from from from Reddit ask David what he plans for his Reddit ask David what he plans for his Reddit ask David what he plans for his garden this year is this a joke or is garden this year is this a joke or is garden this year is this a joke or is this it's not a joke I I got into this it's not a joke I I got into this it's not a joke I I got into gardening a few years gardening a few years gardening a few years ago honestly I'm with the baby yeah I ago honestly I'm with the baby yeah I ago honestly I'm with the baby yeah I can't do a garden this year it's just can't do a garden this year it's just can't do a garden this year it's just and I have a lot of travel coming up so and I have a lot of travel coming up so and I have a lot of travel coming up so everything would die but I did start to everything would die but I did start to everything would die but I did start to try to figure out gardening if you're try to figure out gardening if you're try to figure out gardening if you're stressed by the toxicity of the social stressed by the toxicity of the social stressed by the toxicity of the social media World gardening is a great hobby media World gardening is a great hobby media World gardening is a great hobby it really is um but it is it really is um but it is it really is um but it is extraordinarily timeconsuming so I have extraordinarily timeconsuming so I have extraordinarily timeconsuming so I have no Garden planned this year um are there no Garden planned this year um are there no Garden planned this year um are there books uh or maybe movies in your life books uh or maybe movies in your life books uh or maybe movies in your life that had a big impact on you that you that had a big impact on you that you that had a big impact on you that you know you're thinking about that know you're thinking about that know you're thinking about that diet has has there been stuff you read diet has has there been stuff you read diet has has there been stuff you read forget it about even just books like forget it about even just books like forget it about even just books like blogs or writers or just sources of blogs or writers or just sources of blogs or writers or just sources of information that information that information that had uh that molded you into the had uh that molded you into the had uh that molded you into the intellectual into the political think intellectual into the political think intellectual into the political think that that you are it's so hard to this

that that you are it's so hard to this that that you are it's so hard to this is sort of like you know you win an is sort of like you know you win an is sort of like you know you win an Oscar and you you want to make sure you Oscar and you you want to make sure you Oscar and you you want to make sure you thank all the right people I I read so thank all the right people I I read so thank all the right people I I read so much and have been reading for so long much and have been reading for so long much and have been reading for so long that it's really hard to say but I think that it's really hard to say but I think that it's really hard to say but I think certainly um for me narrative certainly um for me narrative certainly um for me narrative non-fiction has been a fantastic genre non-fiction has been a fantastic genre non-fiction has been a fantastic genre to learn not only about history but also to learn not only about history but also to learn not only about history but also about people and psychology and very about people and psychology and very about people and psychology and very often when people say I don't really often when people say I don't really often when people say I don't really read like what can recommend to me that read like what can recommend to me that read like what can recommend to me that might be interesting I'll depending on might be interesting I'll depending on might be interesting I'll depending on you know knowing them to some degree you know knowing them to some degree you know knowing them to some degree I'll give recommendations there in terms I'll give recommendations there in terms I'll give recommendations there in terms of of um just things I picked up of of um just things I picked up of of um just things I picked up recently that that I think are recently that that I think are recently that that I think are interesting um I've been reading uh a interesting um I've been reading uh a interesting um I've been reading uh a bunch of Neil Postman I read a Jenny bunch of Neil Postman I read a Jenny bunch of Neil Postman I read a Jenny Odell has a new book on time and the Odell has a new book on time and the Odell has a new book on time and the concept of like Saving Time spending concept of like Saving Time spending concept of like Saving Time spending time Etc she just published it super time Etc she just published it super time Etc she just published it super interesting I just read um sing's book interesting I just read um sing's book interesting I just read um sing's book about the Shackleton Voyage in about the Shackleton Voyage in about the Shackleton Voyage in Antarctica in 1914 15 and 16 super Antarctica in 1914 15 and 16 super Antarctica in 1914 15 and 16 super interesting I'm really all over the map interesting I'm really all over the map interesting I'm really all over the map I have that one on Audi book I've been I have that one on Audi book I've been I have that one on Audi book I've been me meaning to listen to It's very me meaning to listen to It's very me meaning to listen to It's very interesting and it seems inconceivable interesting and it seems inconceivable interesting and it seems inconceivable how these guys survived it in completely how these guys survived it in completely how these guys survived it in completely inconceivable and yet they did uh it inconceivable and yet they did uh it inconceivable and yet they did uh it kind of inspires you to think of uh kind of inspires you to think of uh kind of inspires you to think of uh space exploration uh and taking on space exploration uh and taking on space exploration uh and taking on similar kinds of risky and dangerous similar kinds of risky and dangerous similar kinds of risky and dangerous Journeys uh in narrative non-fiction I Journeys uh in narrative non-fiction I Journeys uh in narrative non-fiction I agree with you very much I've been agree with you very much I've been agree with you very much I've been reading a lot of 20th century history um

reading a lot of 20th century history um reading a lot of 20th century history um about about about Stalin and about Hitler rise and fall Stalin and about Hitler rise and fall Stalin and about Hitler rise and fall the Third Reich I've read twice now and the Third Reich I've read twice now and the Third Reich I've read twice now and I I I recommend what did you get out of recommend what did you get out of recommend what did you get out of reading it the second reading it the second reading it the second time time time um so what I um so what I um so what I uh so the second time I listened to the uh so the second time I listened to the uh so the second time I listened to the Audi book okay as I ran I get the same Audi book okay as I ran I get the same Audi book okay as I ran I get the same thing from it uh as I get maybe reading thing from it uh as I get maybe reading thing from it uh as I get maybe reading uh man search for meaning which is uh man search for meaning which is uh man search for meaning which is um All the Troubles of day-to-day in the um All the Troubles of day-to-day in the um All the Troubles of day-to-day in the modern world kind of uh fade away and modern world kind of uh fade away and modern world kind of uh fade away and dissipate when I'm thinking about the uh dissipate when I'm thinking about the uh dissipate when I'm thinking about the uh you know basically the embodiment of you know basically the embodiment of you know basically the embodiment of evil at scale uh at that recent time in evil at scale uh at that recent time in evil at scale uh at that recent time in human history so it's it makes me sort human history so it's it makes me sort human history so it's it makes me sort of appreciate all the it fills me with of appreciate all the it fills me with of appreciate all the it fills me with gratitude to have all the freedoms all gratitude to have all the freedoms all gratitude to have all the freedoms all the just simple joys of life that we the just simple joys of life that we the just simple joys of life that we have today and have today and have today and um I I think the second time I was uh as um I I think the second time I was uh as um I I think the second time I was uh as I was reading it uh because William I was reading it uh because William I was reading it uh because William Shire was there he's the author he was Shire was there he's the author he was Shire was there he's the author he was there through the whole thing you start there through the whole thing you start there through the whole thing you start to pick up little details it's opposed to pick up little details it's opposed to pick up little details it's opposed to like big things you start to pick up to like big things you start to pick up to like big things you start to pick up the little the little the little quirks of uh how history turns and just quirks of uh how history turns and just quirks of uh how history turns and just like these little events you notice of like these little events you notice of like these little events you notice of the Dynamics between people in a room the Dynamics between people in a room the Dynamics between people in a room during a meeting with Hitler you just during a meeting with Hitler you just during a meeting with Hitler you just notice these little things that are notice these little things that are notice these little things that are mentioned cuz he was either there mentioned cuz he was either there mentioned cuz he was either there directly or hurted the next day so so directly or hurted the next day so so directly or hurted the next day so so you get that's why to me um rise and you get that's why to me um rise and you get that's why to me um rise and fall the third rank is interesting is

fall the third rank is interesting is fall the third rank is interesting is cuz it's by a guy who was there who's cuz it's by a guy who was there who's cuz it's by a guy who was there who's reporting on it um versus a sort of a reporting on it um versus a sort of a reporting on it um versus a sort of a more distant displaced retali and I also more distant displaced retali and I also more distant displaced retali and I also like biographies I'm a big fan of like biographies I'm a big fan of like biographies I'm a big fan of biographies and um Walter isacs has just biographies and um Walter isacs has just biographies and um Walter isacs has just written some incredible ones and Steve written some incredible ones and Steve written some incredible ones and Steve Jobs and and Einstein all that kind of Jobs and and Einstein all that kind of Jobs and and Einstein all that kind of stuff um Victor frankl's book is one stuff um Victor frankl's book is one stuff um Victor frankl's book is one I've read a bunch of times and it's so I've read a bunch of times and it's so I've read a bunch of times and it's so short and you know reading General I short and you know reading General I short and you know reading General I know a lot of people who read way more know a lot of people who read way more know a lot of people who read way more than I do and I also know a lot of than I do and I also know a lot of than I do and I also know a lot of people who don't read at all I mean they people who don't read at all I mean they people who don't read at all I mean they haven't read a book since since College haven't read a book since since College haven't read a book since since College essentially to me it it's almost like essentially to me it it's almost like essentially to me it it's almost like the amount I get from it it's almost the amount I get from it it's almost the amount I get from it it's almost like a secret weapon where when I think like a secret weapon where when I think like a secret weapon where when I think you know in two or three or 400 Pages you know in two or three or 400 Pages you know in two or three or 400 Pages which I can read in whatever 10 days or which I can read in whatever 10 days or which I can read in whatever 10 days or however long it takes reading 30 pages a however long it takes reading 30 pages a however long it takes reading 30 pages a day the amount of day the amount of day the amount of information insights into so many information insights into so many information insights into so many aspects of the human psyche that I can aspects of the human psyche that I can aspects of the human psyche that I can get it's sort of like it's not like I'm get it's sort of like it's not like I'm get it's sort of like it's not like I'm in a competition for anything in in a competition for anything in in a competition for anything in particular with anybody I just do my particular with anybody I just do my particular with anybody I just do my show but it's sort of like if I'm show but it's sort of like if I'm show but it's sort of like if I'm reading dozens of books a year and reading dozens of books a year and reading dozens of books a year and you're reading zero I'm exposed to so you're reading zero I'm exposed to so you're reading zero I'm exposed to so many different things and ideas that are many different things and ideas that are many different things and ideas that are not even in your Universe it just seems not even in your Universe it just seems not even in your Universe it just seems like the the power of reading just seems like the the power of reading just seems like the the power of reading just seems overwhelming and I I had uh speaking of overwhelming and I I had uh speaking of overwhelming and I I had uh speaking of getting attacked I had a fun time getting attacked I had a fun time getting attacked I had a fun time getting attacked uh a few months ago for getting attacked uh a few months ago for getting attacked uh a few months ago for publishing a reading list some um publishing a reading list some um publishing a reading list some um reading at least the book A Week read um reading at least the book A Week read um reading at least the book A Week read um 18 or 19 books from the beginning of the

18 or 19 books from the beginning of the 18 or 19 books from the beginning of the year you got attacked for the books you year you got attacked for the books you year you got attacked for the books you chose or for this I don't know for what chose or for this I don't know for what chose or for this I don't know for what oh but it would got became quite viral oh but it would got became quite viral oh but it would got became quite viral attack for reading that's that's attack for reading that's that's attack for reading that's that's something um so it's basically what something um so it's basically what something um so it's basically what happened is that people I I actually happened is that people I I actually happened is that people I I actually don't it it it's not worth folks who don't it it it's not worth folks who don't it it it's not worth folks who know no fair folks who don't don't even know no fair folks who don't don't even know no fair folks who don't don't even worry about it it's the what I really worry about it it's the what I really worry about it it's the what I really loved about being attacked for it is loved about being attacked for it is loved about being attacked for it is it's shows you can get attacked for it's shows you can get attacked for it's shows you can get attacked for anything apparently it's so it's not anything apparently it's so it's not anything apparently it's so it's not like I did something wrong it was kind like I did something wrong it was kind like I did something wrong it was kind of a beautiful thing and it was just a of a beautiful thing and it was just a of a beautiful thing and it was just a uh the most intensely beautiful display uh the most intensely beautiful display uh the most intensely beautiful display of absurdity of Twitter and the internet of absurdity of Twitter and the internet of absurdity of Twitter and the internet that there would be there were articles that there would be there were articles that there would be there were articles written about me with the with the book written about me with the with the book written about me with the with the book list um there's no bad books on it the list um there's no bad books on it the list um there's no bad books on it the thing I was being mocked for is reading thing I was being mocked for is reading thing I was being mocked for is reading DFI reading stuff that uh sounds like a DFI reading stuff that uh sounds like a DFI reading stuff that uh sounds like a high school reading list oh I see or all high school reading list oh I see or all high school reading list oh I see or all these kinds of aspects of the reading these kinds of aspects of the reading these kinds of aspects of the reading list list list which doesn't stand up to any sort of which doesn't stand up to any sort of which doesn't stand up to any sort of legitimate kind of criticism but the legitimate kind of criticism but the legitimate kind of criticism but the fact that people are just looking for fact that people are just looking for fact that people are just looking for single words or single aspects of a single words or single aspects of a single words or single aspects of a tweet and so want to criticize is uh it tweet and so want to criticize is uh it tweet and so want to criticize is uh it um actually forced me to because I um actually forced me to because I um actually forced me to because I released a video about you know released a video about you know released a video about you know summarizing my takeaways from from one summarizing my takeaways from from one summarizing my takeaways from from one of the books and I've been meaning to do of the books and I've been meaning to do of the books and I've been meaning to do more and more but every time I start to more and more but every time I start to more and more but every time I start to like when I record it I I have this like when I record it I I have this like when I record it I I have this negative feeling they kind of ruin the negative feeling they kind of ruin the negative feeling they kind of ruin the fun of sharing with others I know

fun of sharing with others I know fun of sharing with others I know exactly what you're talking about my exactly what you're talking about my exactly what you're talking about my advice on that is don't do it just don't advice on that is don't do it just don't advice on that is don't do it just don't record it yeah because and and is that record it yeah because and and is that record it yeah because and and is that what you basically yeah for now but I I what you basically yeah for now but I I what you basically yeah for now but I I I think time cures it but for now I I think time cures it but for now I I think time cures it but for now I decided not to yes it's just until um decided not to yes it's just until um decided not to yes it's just until um until I I feel Joy when I do it yeah we until I I feel Joy when I do it yeah we until I I feel Joy when I do it yeah we are in such a privileged position to are in such a privileged position to are in such a privileged position to even be able to do this sort of thing even be able to do this sort of thing even be able to do this sort of thing right I have taken on projects and then right I have taken on projects and then right I have taken on projects and then it sort of sounds good or I end up doing it sort of sounds good or I end up doing it sort of sounds good or I end up doing it because there's some third party that it because there's some third party that it because there's some third party that brings the idea and I feel like I can't brings the idea and I feel like I can't brings the idea and I feel like I can't really say no or whatever and then when really say no or whatever and then when really say no or whatever and then when I get in front of the camera or I have I get in front of the camera or I have I get in front of the camera or I have to write something for a while I did a to write something for a while I did a to write something for a while I did a newspaper column that I hated doing I newspaper column that I hated doing I newspaper column that I hated doing I realized that I'm ruining the exact realized that I'm ruining the exact realized that I'm ruining the exact thing that I have worked to build which thing that I have worked to build which thing that I have worked to build which is that I can just do whatever I want is that I can just do whatever I want is that I can just do whatever I want why am I doing this and sometimes it why am I doing this and sometimes it why am I doing this and sometimes it takes me a week to realize it sometimes takes me a week to realize it sometimes takes me a week to realize it sometimes it takes me a year but just don't do it it takes me a year but just don't do it it takes me a year but just don't do it that's in this case in particular it's that's in this case in particular it's that's in this case in particular it's also that there's a private thing I also that there's a private thing I also that there's a private thing I enjoy which is reading right and if enjoy which is reading right and if enjoy which is reading right and if sharing that private thing you enjoy is sharing that private thing you enjoy is sharing that private thing you enjoy is not fun then just don't share it that not fun then just don't share it that not fun then just don't share it that that's um yeah there's certain things that's um yeah there's certain things that's um yeah there's certain things there's certain private things that there's certain private things that there's certain private things that should remain private that's like which should remain private that's like which should remain private that's like which is one of the first things ever I'm I'm is one of the first things ever I'm I'm is one of the first things ever I'm I'm the same person privately as I am the same person privately as I am the same person privately as I am publicly but the book books it's like publicly but the book books it's like publicly but the book books it's like man I don't get to share I guess through man I don't get to share I guess through man I don't get to share I guess through these conversations I can these conversations I can these conversations I can uh I share some of the stuff I'm reading uh I share some of the stuff I'm reading uh I share some of the stuff I'm reading and enjoying it cuz it sucks it sucks to and enjoying it cuz it sucks it sucks to and enjoying it cuz it sucks it sucks to get attacked for stuff and it sucks to

get attacked for stuff and it sucks to get attacked for stuff and it sucks to get attacked for stuff you love yeah get attacked for stuff you love yeah get attacked for stuff you love yeah especially reading I mean it's a you especially reading I mean it's a you especially reading I mean it's a you know that's the the bottom of the barrel know that's the the bottom of the barrel know that's the the bottom of the barrel I have these ideas where I'll go you I have these ideas where I'll go you I have these ideas where I'll go you know maybe for my next thing I'll go know maybe for my next thing I'll go know maybe for my next thing I'll go from politics which is so toxic I'll go from politics which is so toxic I'll go from politics which is so toxic I'll go to travel blogging because I I there's to travel blogging because I I there's to travel blogging because I I there's so many travel bloggers I follow and so many travel bloggers I follow and so many travel bloggers I follow and there so many interesting places and there so many interesting places and there so many interesting places and then I go wait a second I like traveling then I go wait a second I like traveling then I go wait a second I like traveling and just hanging out now traveling is and just hanging out now traveling is and just hanging out now traveling is going to be my job and now I've got to going to be my job and now I've got to going to be my job and now I've got to bring two cameras with me and I've got bring two cameras with me and I've got bring two cameras with me and I've got to get shots and I've got to film my to get shots and I've got to film my to get shots and I've got to film my food and I'm not going to do that I'm food and I'm not going to do that I'm food and I'm not going to do that I'm just going to do what I'm doing but then just going to do what I'm doing but then just going to do what I'm doing but then I'll travel when I want to take a I'll travel when I want to take a I'll travel when I want to take a vacation MH and of course some of it vacation MH and of course some of it vacation MH and of course some of it could be fun I mean I I have to say when could be fun I mean I I have to say when could be fun I mean I I have to say when I did the one video on a book 1984 I I did the one video on a book 1984 I I did the one video on a book 1984 I really enjoyed it that that whole really enjoyed it that that whole really enjoyed it that that whole process it was fun it was um um I don't process it was fun it was um um I don't process it was fun it was um um I don't think I've ever thought as hard about a think I've ever thought as hard about a think I've ever thought as hard about a book when I had to make a video about it book when I had to make a video about it book when I had to make a video about it because I had to like you know I read because I had to like you know I read because I had to like you know I read 1984 I don't know how many times 1984 I don't know how many times 1984 I don't know how many times probably five 10 times I don't remember probably five 10 times I don't remember probably five 10 times I don't remember um a red Animal Farm way more uh but I um a red Animal Farm way more uh but I um a red Animal Farm way more uh but I don't think I was like what do I think don't think I was like what do I think don't think I was like what do I think about like what are the key takeaways about like what are the key takeaways about like what are the key takeaways for me it I didn't really know like if for me it I didn't really know like if for me it I didn't really know like if you ask me what I think about even you ask me what I think about even you ask me what I think about even Animal Farm cuz I haven't done that one Animal Farm cuz I haven't done that one Animal Farm cuz I haven't done that one and I've read that one I don't know over and I've read that one I don't know over and I've read that one I don't know over 50 times it's probably my favorite book 50 times it's probably my favorite book 50 times it's probably my favorite book it's like I I would have to struggle and it's like I I would have to struggle and it's like I I would have to struggle and and making a video about it basically a and making a video about it basically a and making a video about it basically a little mini lecture forced me to little mini lecture forced me to little mini lecture forced me to actually have an opinion about the actually have an opinion about the actually have an opinion about the details of it and to do enough research details of it and to do enough research details of it and to do enough research to think like okay what is the to think like okay what is the to think like okay what is the historical context of this book I mean

historical context of this book I mean historical context of this book I mean it it it allowed me to say interesting it it it allowed me to say interesting it it it allowed me to say interesting and to think interesting stuff about the and to think interesting stuff about the and to think interesting stuff about the book I it was I found it to be really book I it was I found it to be really book I it was I found it to be really rewarding to basically the old Fineman rewarding to basically the old Fineman rewarding to basically the old Fineman thing uh one of the best ways to learn thing uh one of the best ways to learn thing uh one of the best ways to learn is to teach right yeah I can't think of is to teach right yeah I can't think of is to teach right yeah I can't think of one thing I would say about animal farm one thing I would say about animal farm one thing I would say about animal farm and I read it again not that long ago and I read it again not that long ago and I read it again not that long ago but I don't know what comments you kind but I don't know what comments you kind but I don't know what comments you kind of have a generic of have a generic of have a generic like authoritarianism and so on whatever like authoritarianism and so on whatever like authoritarianism and so on whatever but there could be interesting quirks of but there could be interesting quirks of but there could be interesting quirks of the book and the characters and the how the book and the characters and the how the book and the characters and the how uh how corruption happens you could you uh how corruption happens you could you uh how corruption happens you could you could say all kinds of stuff that it may could say all kinds of stuff that it may could say all kinds of stuff that it may be contrasting it like even with 1984 be contrasting it like even with 1984 be contrasting it like even with 1984 allowed me to contrast with Brave New allowed me to contrast with Brave New allowed me to contrast with Brave New World and um and uh and how uh that 1984 World and um and uh and how uh that 1984 World and um and uh and how uh that 1984 was politicized and how it's used by the was politicized and how it's used by the was politicized and how it's used by the Republican party of today like you could Republican party of today like you could Republican party of today like you could say a lot of interesting stuff if you say a lot of interesting stuff if you say a lot of interesting stuff if you like think about it and write a sheet of like think about it and write a sheet of like think about it and write a sheet of paper maybe you don't need to make a paper maybe you don't need to make a paper maybe you don't need to make a video about it so I find it to be really video about it so I find it to be really video about it so I find it to be really rewarding in general so I I probably rewarding in general so I I probably rewarding in general so I I probably will do more of it but not always not as will do more of it but not always not as will do more of it but not always not as a main professional just like with the a main professional just like with the a main professional just like with the travel blogging I agree with that I mean travel blogging I agree with that I mean travel blogging I agree with that I mean you get threatened a lot you get you get threatened a lot you get you get threatened a lot you get attacked a lot online do you think about attacked a lot online do you think about attacked a lot online do you think about your your your mortality well the other day I went to mortality well the other day I went to mortality well the other day I went to the doctor and he said you know next the doctor and he said you know next the doctor and he said you know next physical we're going to be talking about physical we're going to be talking about physical we're going to be talking about a lot of new things and so I was a lot of new things and so I was a lot of new things and so I was thinking about it a lot that day yeah uh thinking about it a lot that day yeah uh thinking about it a lot that day yeah uh no I mean um it's funny I like I no I mean um it's funny I like I no I mean um it's funny I like I recently did a bunch of estate stuff recently did a bunch of estate stuff recently did a bunch of estate stuff yeah and when you have intellectual yeah and when you have intellectual yeah and when you have intellectual property there's a question of like okay

property there's a question of like okay property there's a question of like okay I have my assets but I have my assets but I have my assets but also if I died tomorrow especially in a also if I died tomorrow especially in a also if I died tomorrow especially in a particularly fiery death my YouTube particularly fiery death my YouTube particularly fiery death my YouTube channel would probably for a while channel would probably for a while channel would probably for a while generate more money because it would be generate more money because it would be generate more money because it would be like oh my goodness this person died in like oh my goodness this person died in like oh my goodness this person died in a terrible what happens with a future a terrible what happens with a future a terrible what happens with a future Revenue stream and all these different Revenue stream and all these different Revenue stream and all these different things and it got me thinking about things and it got me thinking about things and it got me thinking about Legacy and about the fact that people Legacy and about the fact that people Legacy and about the fact that people who do this sort of thing it's kind of a who do this sort of thing it's kind of a who do this sort of thing it's kind of a new thing in a sense and so you know if new thing in a sense and so you know if new thing in a sense and so you know if you work at ABC News at some point you you work at ABC News at some point you you work at ABC News at some point you just retire and someone else fills in just retire and someone else fills in just retire and someone else fills in for you how does my career wind down for you how does my career wind down for you how does my career wind down given I like I don't actually know the given I like I don't actually know the given I like I don't actually know the answer I'm not sure um what is it I just answer I'm not sure um what is it I just answer I'm not sure um what is it I just one day stop posting videos but all my one day stop posting videos but all my one day stop posting videos but all my content stays up getting fewer and fewer content stays up getting fewer and fewer content stays up getting fewer and fewer views or do I delete everything do I I I views or do I delete everything do I I I views or do I delete everything do I I I don't know what what you die I mean so don't know what what you die I mean so don't know what what you die I mean so you my trip to Ukraine cuz I knew I was you my trip to Ukraine cuz I knew I was you my trip to Ukraine cuz I knew I was going to the front is the first time I going to the front is the first time I going to the front is the first time I did um I record a video if I die oh and did um I record a video if I die oh and did um I record a video if I die oh and I posted it and I give instructions to I posted it and I give instructions to I posted it and I give instructions to uh to folks what to do in the so like uh to folks what to do in the so like uh to folks what to do in the so like there's a closure yeah uh but it's an there's a closure yeah uh but it's an there's a closure yeah uh but it's an interesting process like what happens to interesting process like what happens to interesting process like what happens to your at which point does GPT take over your at which point does GPT take over your at which point does GPT take over and continue tweeting for David pack and continue tweeting for David pack and continue tweeting for David pack well the tweeting I care less about well the tweeting I care less about well the tweeting I care less about right now unless blue becomes something right now unless blue becomes something right now unless blue becomes something unbelievable I'm less worried about unbelievable I'm less worried about unbelievable I'm less worried about Twitter but some of my audience members Twitter but some of my audience members Twitter but some of my audience members have been saying you know some of these have been saying you know some of these have been saying you know some of these tools David are getting good enough that tools David are getting good enough that tools David are getting good enough that we could clone your voice and also make

we could clone your voice and also make we could clone your voice and also make it match video and with scripts you it match video and with scripts you it match video and with scripts you could just keep pumping out content even could just keep pumping out content even could just keep pumping out content even if you were gone and I said now that I'm if you were gone and I said now that I'm if you were gone and I said now that I'm interested in that I want to learn more interested in that I want to learn more interested in that I want to learn more about boy it's going to be a weird about boy it's going to be a weird about boy it's going to be a weird future uh what advice do you have to future uh what advice do you have to future uh what advice do you have to young folks that are facing this young folks that are facing this young folks that are facing this future almost always it's some version future almost always it's some version future almost always it's some version of start right away and that applies in of start right away and that applies in of start right away and that applies in so many different ways sure so if you're so many different ways sure so if you're so many different ways sure so if you're thinking about oftentimes the context is thinking about oftentimes the context is thinking about oftentimes the context is people want to do what I do and I always people want to do what I do and I always people want to do what I do and I always say Do not sit around for a year say Do not sit around for a year say Do not sit around for a year thinking about thinking about thinking about lighting this is how you never do lighting this is how you never do lighting this is how you never do anything and I dozens of people who I anything and I dozens of people who I anything and I dozens of people who I felt obligated to talk to on the phone felt obligated to talk to on the phone felt obligated to talk to on the phone because of a personal connection I go because of a personal connection I go because of a personal connection I go through all the advice and I can tell through all the advice and I can tell through all the advice and I can tell they're not going to do it they just they're not going to do it they just they're not going to do it they just they're it's all already sounding too they're it's all already sounding too they're it's all already sounding too complicated and so instead they'll sort complicated and so instead they'll sort complicated and so instead they'll sort of say well I got to get the right of say well I got to get the right of say well I got to get the right lighting and the right room and blah lighting and the right room and blah lighting and the right room and blah blah blah blah the best thing you can do blah blah blah the best thing you can do blah blah blah the best thing you can do no matter what you're doing is just no matter what you're doing is just no matter what you're doing is just start right away and that applies in start right away and that applies in start right away and that applies in this business and in whatever else this business and in whatever else this business and in whatever else you're doing if you want to learn a new you're doing if you want to learn a new you're doing if you want to learn a new thing find a new hobby the ability to thing find a new hobby the ability to thing find a new hobby the ability to get data right away about what's working get data right away about what's working get data right away about what's working what's not working and whether you even what's not working and whether you even what's not working and whether you even like this approach that you're taking is like this approach that you're taking is like this approach that you're taking is so valuable and it will allow you to so valuable and it will allow you to so valuable and it will allow you to iterate and the sooner you do it the iterate and the sooner you do it the iterate and the sooner you do it the cost to a change of direction will also cost to a change of direction will also cost to a change of direction will also be low lower if there's any I don't do be low lower if there's any I don't do be low lower if there's any I don't do like self-help or generic advice type like self-help or generic advice type like self-help or generic advice type stuff but the one thing that applies in stuff but the one thing that applies in stuff but the one thing that applies in so many situation is situations is just so many situation is situations is just so many situation is situations is just try it right away and iterate from there

try it right away and iterate from there try it right away and iterate from there yeah start today and then do it every yeah start today and then do it every yeah start today and then do it every day or decide hey you know what I day or decide hey you know what I day or decide hey you know what I figured out I don't actually want to do figured out I don't actually want to do figured out I don't actually want to do it yeah hence iterate yeah uh well it yeah hence iterate yeah uh well it yeah hence iterate yeah uh well usually you'll discover you you usually you'll discover you you usually you'll discover you you do uh you think we'll make it out of the do uh you think we'll make it out of the do uh you think we'll make it out of the century Humanity human civilization out century Humanity human civilization out century Humanity human civilization out of the so like to 2100 yeah how much we of the so like to 2100 yeah how much we of the so like to 2100 yeah how much we got 80 years yeah uh got 80 years yeah uh got 80 years yeah uh 77 I think we're going to make it you 77 I think we're going to make it you 77 I think we're going to make it you think so yeah uh what are the biggest think so yeah uh what are the biggest think so yeah uh what are the biggest threats facing our threats facing our threats facing our civilization if not wokeism I I it if civilization if not wokeism I I it if civilization if not wokeism I I it if it's not wokeism it's hard to say it's not wokeism it's hard to say it's not wokeism it's hard to say no um I I actually think that uh if you no um I I actually think that uh if you no um I I actually think that uh if you believe that we are on an inflection believe that we are on an inflection believe that we are on an inflection point of sorts in changes to society and point of sorts in changes to society and point of sorts in changes to society and acceleration of Technology Etc I think acceleration of Technology Etc I think acceleration of Technology Etc I think it's really tough to know in it's really tough to know in it's really tough to know in 2090 what will actually be the biggest 2090 what will actually be the biggest 2090 what will actually be the biggest threat so I don't know it's so cliche to threat so I don't know it's so cliche to threat so I don't know it's so cliche to say say say nuclear and climate change and another nuclear and climate change and another nuclear and climate change and another pandemic technologically our world might pandemic technologically our world might pandemic technologically our world might look so different that it's almost yes look so different that it's almost yes look so different that it's almost yes unimaginable what what it means to be unimaginable what what it means to be unimaginable what what it means to be human is unimaginable and also um the human is unimaginable and also um the human is unimaginable and also um the degree that we make progress out into degree that we make progress out into degree that we make progress out into space is also unimaginable I think space space is also unimaginable I think space space is also unimaginable I think space is super interesting and there's people is super interesting and there's people is super interesting and there's people on both the left and right who for on both the left and right who for on both the left and right who for different reasons are kind of not into different reasons are kind of not into different reasons are kind of not into the whole space exploration thing the the whole space exploration thing the the whole space exploration thing the people I hear from the ones on the right people I hear from the ones on the right people I hear from the ones on the right think it's just kind of dumb yeah the

think it's just kind of dumb yeah the think it's just kind of dumb yeah the ones on the left think it's an excuse ones on the left think it's an excuse ones on the left think it's an excuse not to fix problems here MH I think and not to fix problems here MH I think and not to fix problems here MH I think and also uh they say it's the play thing of also uh they say it's the play thing of also uh they say it's the play thing of billionaires sure which is another funny billionaires sure which is another funny billionaires sure which is another funny kind of concept yeah I mean someone's kind of concept yeah I mean someone's kind of concept yeah I mean someone's got to pay for it uh why not be people got to pay for it uh why not be people got to pay for it uh why not be people who have a lot of money to to be who have a lot of money to to be who have a lot of money to to be billionaires or governments that are billionaires or governments that are billionaires or governments that are trillionaires so somebody has to pay for trillionaires so somebody has to pay for trillionaires so somebody has to pay for big ambitious moonshell projects to me big ambitious moonshell projects to me big ambitious moonshell projects to me the most interesting thing is that in the most interesting thing is that in the most interesting thing is that in getting closer to the next step of space getting closer to the next step of space getting closer to the next step of space exploration we may well learn things exploration we may well learn things exploration we may well learn things that can then be used to improve that can then be used to improve that can then be used to improve circumstances here for me it's not one circumstances here for me it's not one circumstances here for me it's not one or the other and I recently read a long or the other and I recently read a long or the other and I recently read a long piece about why why not Mars because piece about why why not Mars because piece about why why not Mars because it's terrible in every way for it's terrible in every way for it's terrible in every way for supporting life okay so like that's one supporting life okay so like that's one supporting life okay so like that's one perspective but still in so exploring perspective but still in so exploring perspective but still in so exploring who knows what we might end up learning who knows what we might end up learning who knows what we might end up learning so I I'm I'm big on it I don't um share so I I'm I'm big on it I don't um share so I I'm I'm big on it I don't um share the view of some on the left about it so the view of some on the left about it so the view of some on the left about it so I guess to add to your advice to young I guess to add to your advice to young I guess to add to your advice to young people if a thing seems terrible you people if a thing seems terrible you people if a thing seems terrible you still might want to consider doing it I still might want to consider doing it I still might want to consider doing it I would say so yeah how many things I've would say so yeah how many things I've would say so yeah how many things I've seen I mean listen there are so many seen I mean listen there are so many seen I mean listen there are so many trips where the day before I trips where the day before I trips where the day before I say why am I doing this the jet lag I've say why am I doing this the jet lag I've say why am I doing this the jet lag I've got to do this and that and now who if got to do this and that and now who if got to do this and that and now who if my guest host falls through I should my guest host falls through I should my guest host falls through I should just stay and work and I go hold on you just stay and work and I go hold on you just stay and work and I go hold on you do this every time yep just go you never do this every time yep just go you never do this every time yep just go you never regret it you learn something you try

regret it you learn something you try regret it you learn something you try something I never regret the something I never regret the something I never regret the trip uh this hopefully applies to the trip uh this hopefully applies to the trip uh this hopefully applies to the conversation we had today uh David uh conversation we had today uh David uh conversation we had today uh David uh I'm a big fan of yours thank you so much I'm a big fan of yours thank you so much I'm a big fan of yours thank you so much um for talking today thank you for being um for talking today thank you for being um for talking today thank you for being patient with me we tried to talk earlier patient with me we tried to talk earlier patient with me we tried to talk earlier um please continue doing what you're um please continue doing what you're um please continue doing what you're doing please uh continue being objective doing please uh continue being objective doing please uh continue being objective and thoughtful and uh Fearless thank on and thoughtful and uh Fearless thank on and thoughtful and uh Fearless thank on the internet big fan of yours as well I the internet big fan of yours as well I the internet big fan of yours as well I appreciate it thanks for listening to appreciate it thanks for listening to appreciate it thanks for listening to this conversation with David Pacman to this conversation with David Pacman to this conversation with David Pacman to support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from let me leave you with some words from Mahatma Gandhi what difference does it Mahatma Gandhi what difference does it Mahatma Gandhi what difference does it make to the Dead the orphans and the make to the Dead the orphans and the make to the Dead the orphans and the homeless whether the Mad destruction is homeless whether the Mad destruction is homeless whether the Mad destruction is rought under the name of totalitarianism rought under the name of totalitarianism rought under the name of totalitarianism or in the Holy Name of Liberty or or in the Holy Name of Liberty or or in the Holy Name of Liberty or democracy thank you for listening and democracy thank you for listening and democracy thank you for listening and hope to see you next time