Kimbal Musk: The Art of Cooking, Tesla, SpaceX, Zip2, and Family | Lex Fridman Podcast #417

for me cooking is an art what's your for me cooking is an art what's your favorite ingredient to cook with there favorite ingredient to cook with there favorite ingredient to cook with there isn't one it's more like when there is isn't one it's more like when there is isn't one it's more like when there is one it really is one you know like one it really is one you know like one it really is one you know like there's Peaches on the on the cover of there's Peaches on the on the cover of there's Peaches on the on the cover of this cookbook those peaches those were this cookbook those peaches those were this cookbook those peaches those were in August Colorado peaches it just in August Colorado peaches it just in August Colorado peaches it just doesn't get any better than that on that doesn't get any better than that on that doesn't get any better than that on that day at that moment that was the best day at that moment that was the best day at that moment that was the best that was the but that only lasts for a that was the but that only lasts for a that was the but that only lasts for a week and then they don't taste so great week and then they don't taste so great week and then they don't taste so great yeah but damn they so good in that yeah but damn they so good in that yeah but damn they so good in that moment and you just can't stop wanting moment and you just can't stop wanting moment and you just can't stop wanting to use that ingredient the following is a ingredient the following is a conversation with Kimbo musk a longtime conversation with Kimbo musk a longtime conversation with Kimbo musk a longtime entrepreneur and Chef and author of a entrepreneur and Chef and author of a entrepreneur and Chef and author of a new cookbook called the kitchen Cookbook new cookbook called the kitchen Cookbook new cookbook called the kitchen Cookbook cooking for your community you should cooking for your community you should cooking for your community you should check it out it is in fact the first check it out it is in fact the first check it out it is in fact the first cookbook I've ever owned I've already cookbook I've ever owned I've already cookbook I've ever owned I've already made stuff from it and it's delicious made stuff from it and it's delicious made stuff from it and it's delicious this is Alex fredman podcast to support this is Alex fredman podcast to support this is Alex fredman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors in the it please check out our sponsors in the it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's description and now dear friends here's Kimble Kimble Kimble musk growing up in South Africa you said musk growing up in South Africa you said musk growing up in South Africa you said it was a violent place what are some it was a violent place what are some it was a violent place what are some formative moments that you remember from formative moments that you remember from formative moments that you remember from that time South Africa was so I grew up that time South Africa was so I grew up that time South Africa was so I grew up in uh par South Africa but more in uh par South Africa but more in uh par South Africa but more specifically the fall of a paride so it specifically the fall of a paride so it specifically the fall of a paride so it was was the 80 I was a teenager in the was was the 80 I was a teenager in the was was the 80 I was a teenager in the 80s and uh our community would would 80s and uh our community would would 80s and uh our community would would um part of our social life frankly was um part of our social life frankly was um part of our social life frankly was the anti- aparte protests and to go the anti- aparte protests and to go the anti- aparte protests and to go be with white people black people kind

be with white people black people kind be with white people black people kind of mix mixing it all of mix mixing it all of mix mixing it all together the most formative experiences together the most formative experiences together the most formative experiences frankly how much I appreciate a place frankly how much I appreciate a place frankly how much I appreciate a place like America where we have value for like America where we have value for like America where we have value for human human human life so is that was a country where life so is that was a country where life so is that was a country where human life was not valued it was human life was not valued it was human life was not valued it was a it's a weird thing to come from that a it's a weird thing to come from that a it's a weird thing to come from that to he where where we we take it so to he where where we we take it so to he where where we we take it so seriously if someone dies in a war or seriously if someone dies in a war or seriously if someone dies in a war or something like that something like that something like that and um we just didn't take it seriously and um we just didn't take it seriously and um we just didn't take it seriously in South Africa people died but people in South Africa people died but people in South Africa people died but people were killed I saw someone killed in were killed I saw someone killed in were killed I saw someone killed in front of front of front of me um with uh was getting off a train me um with uh was getting off a train me um with uh was getting off a train and it's a very violent train known and it's a very violent train known and it's a very violent train known known for violence we were stupid kids known for violence we were stupid kids known for violence we were stupid kids we didn't really listen to our parents we didn't really listen to our parents we didn't really listen to our parents we went on this train and uh the doors we went on this train and uh the doors we went on this train and uh the doors opened and I had people trying to get opened and I had people trying to get opened and I had people trying to get off the train and in front of me two off the train and in front of me two off the train and in front of me two black people one black guy just stabed black people one black guy just stabed black people one black guy just stabed this knife in the side of this other this knife in the side of this other this knife in the side of this other black guy's head and you're like what black guy's head and you're like what black guy's head and you're like what the fuck and you just I'm I got to get the fuck and you just I'm I got to get the fuck and you just I'm I got to get off the train how old were you at this off the train how old were you at this off the train how old were you at this time proba 16 or 17 and I got to get off time proba 16 or 17 and I got to get off time proba 16 or 17 and I got to get off the train and everyone is trying to get the train and everyone is trying to get the train and everyone is trying to get me to get off because you know they're me to get off because you know they're me to get off because you know they're all behind me so I step off and I step all behind me so I step off and I step all behind me so I step off and I step into the pool of blood one foot and then into the pool of blood one foot and then into the pool of blood one foot and then I just walk from for about 100 Paces I just walk from for about 100 Paces I just walk from for about 100 Paces while the stickiness of the blood just

while the stickiness of the blood just while the stickiness of the blood just kind of for my sneakers just on one foot kind of for my sneakers just on one foot kind of for my sneakers just on one foot just like leaves a footprint behind me just like leaves a footprint behind me just like leaves a footprint behind me and you just walk on you just walk on and you just walk on you just walk on and you just walk on you just walk on did the others as everyone walked on did the others as everyone walked on did the others as everyone walked on that's an interesting point you make that's an interesting point you make that's an interesting point you make underlying the violence is a kind underlying the violence is a kind underlying the violence is a kind of philosophy that human life is of philosophy that human life is of philosophy that human life is disposable the individual life is disposable the individual life is disposable the individual life is disposable I mean that underlies many disposable I mean that underlies many disposable I mean that underlies many ideologies you know I grew up in the ideologies you know I grew up in the ideologies you know I grew up in the Soviet Union the value of human life was Soviet Union the value of human life was Soviet Union the value of human life was lower there than in the United States lower there than in the United States lower there than in the United States the value of the individual in the the value of the individual in the the value of the individual in the United States is really high it's United States is really high it's United States is really high it's probably an index you can put together probably an index you can put together probably an index you can put together like yeah right like yeah right like yeah right exactly peration that that's a really exactly peration that that's a really exactly peration that that's a really interesting way to put it because interesting way to put it because interesting way to put it because violence is much easier on a mass scale violence is much easier on a mass scale violence is much easier on a mass scale suffering causing suffering on a mass suffering causing suffering on a mass suffering causing suffering on a mass scale is much easier when you don't scale is much easier when you don't scale is much easier when you don't value the human life I've heard this value the human life I've heard this value the human life I've heard this before where which I think I agree with before where which I think I agree with before where which I think I agree with is when someone someone is killed is when someone someone is killed is when someone someone is killed someone is someone's taken from our someone is someone's taken from our someone is someone's taken from our lives the the vacuum that it creates the lives the the vacuum that it creates the lives the the vacuum that it creates the social vacuum is extraordinarily painful social vacuum is extraordinarily painful social vacuum is extraordinarily painful and and it truly is true I mean if and and it truly is true I mean if and and it truly is true I mean if someone in my community passes away it's someone in my community passes away it's someone in my community passes away it's very very sad for me and when you go to very very sad for me and when you go to very very sad for me and when you go to a place where where you live grow up in a place where where you live grow up in a place where where you live grow up in a place where where that human life is a place where where that human life is a place where where that human life is not valued there's there's something not valued there's there's something not valued there's there's something about the there's a little bit littleit about the there's a little bit littleit about the there's a little bit littleit less of the social vacuum created less of the social vacuum created less of the social vacuum created because everyone is kind of expecting because everyone is kind of expecting because everyone is kind of expecting everyone to potentially be taken out at

everyone to potentially be taken out at everyone to potentially be taken out at any moment um but then there's also a any moment um but then there's also a any moment um but then there's also a beauty to it because there's a much more beauty to it because there's a much more beauty to it because there's a much more of a celebr of a celebr of a celebr celebratory element when we my my cousin celebratory element when we my my cousin celebratory element when we my my cousin Russ and I we again we were stupid kids Russ and I we again we were stupid kids Russ and I we again we were stupid kids we shouldn't be doing this but we go we shouldn't be doing this but we go we shouldn't be doing this but we go into the townships where all a lot of into the townships where all a lot of into the townships where all a lot of the violence would be happening and we the violence would be happening and we the violence would be happening and we really didn't see most of the violence really didn't see most of the violence really didn't see most of the violence there it was in in these more protests there it was in in these more protests there it was in in these more protests and and so forth but but the the there's and and so forth but but the the there's and and so forth but but the the there's a joy that also comes from lower value a joy that also comes from lower value a joy that also comes from lower value of human life there's a real Joy like of human life there's a real Joy like of human life there's a real Joy like everyone is like well I mean it's everyone is like well I mean it's everyone is like well I mean it's beautiful it's we we have dinner with beautiful it's we we have dinner with beautiful it's we we have dinner with black friends you know friends with black friends you know friends with black friends you know friends with their family we were still pretty young their family we were still pretty young their family we were still pretty young and um and there was just a real joy to and um and there was just a real joy to and um and there was just a real joy to it when you accept mortality yeah you it when you accept mortality yeah you it when you accept mortality yeah you can really enjoy life you can really can really enjoy life you can really can really enjoy life you can really enjoy I mean I think there's actually enjoy I mean I think there's actually enjoy I mean I think there's actually quite a nice inside I I've never really quite a nice inside I I've never really quite a nice inside I I've never really put it that way but I I think that's put it that way but I I think that's put it that way but I I think that's right actually I think you you just right actually I think you you just right actually I think you you just chill out a bit take things a little chill out a bit take things a little chill out a bit take things a little less seriously cuz life does end for less seriously cuz life does end for less seriously cuz life does end for everybody it does right and if you just everybody it does right and if you just everybody it does right and if you just head on accept that fact yeah you can head on accept that fact yeah you can head on accept that fact yeah you can just enjoy every single moment and let just enjoy every single moment and let just enjoy every single moment and let go of this attachment uh and just enjoy go of this attachment uh and just enjoy go of this attachment uh and just enjoy the moment it's a real I do love that we the moment it's a real I do love that we the moment it's a real I do love that we will live longer and so forth but we will live longer and so forth but we will live longer and so forth but we should live longer with a with the goal should live longer with a with the goal should live longer with a with the goal of joy and the goal of happiness and of joy and the goal of happiness and of joy and the goal of happiness and peace um not uh some some form of misery peace um not uh some some form of misery peace um not uh some some form of misery that you choose to attach yourself to that you choose to attach yourself to that you choose to attach yourself to maximize Joy maximize Joy that's right

maximize Joy maximize Joy that's right maximize Joy maximize Joy that's right there's a story that Walter isacson there's a story that Walter isacson there's a story that Walter isacson writes about writes about writes about where Elon got beat up pretty bad and where Elon got beat up pretty bad and where Elon got beat up pretty bad and you were there and then you also had to you were there and then you also had to you were there and then you also had to watch your dad yell at Elon for an hour watch your dad yell at Elon for an hour watch your dad yell at Elon for an hour calling him worthless all those kinds of calling him worthless all those kinds of calling him worthless all those kinds of things uh you said it was the worst things uh you said it was the worst things uh you said it was the worst memory of your life what do you make of memory of your life what do you make of memory of your life what do you make of such cruelty what do you remember from such cruelty what do you remember from such cruelty what do you remember from that that that time I mean it was time I mean it was time I mean it was horrible I think you know coming back to horrible I think you know coming back to horrible I think you know coming back to the point of low value of human life the point of low value of human life the point of low value of human life they tried to kill him it wasn't um they tried to kill him it wasn't um they tried to kill him it wasn't um wasn't it was no holding back so I just wasn't it was no holding back so I just wasn't it was no holding back so I just watched watched watched someone it wasn't just one but but there someone it wasn't just one but but there someone it wasn't just one but but there was a main person and then there was a was a main person and then there was a was a main person and then there was a few others that that piled in they they few others that that piled in they they few others that that piled in they they just uh they tried to kill him in front just uh they tried to kill him in front just uh they tried to kill him in front of me and I was we were eating of me and I was we were eating of me and I was we were eating sandwiches on a on a staircase at at the sandwiches on a on a staircase at at the sandwiches on a on a staircase at at the school out in outdoor staircase and um school out in outdoor staircase and um school out in outdoor staircase and um uh I just had to I they they were not uh I just had to I they they were not uh I just had to I they they were not coming after me and then I just had to coming after me and then I just had to coming after me and then I just had to watch and I couldn't help it was one of watch and I couldn't help it was one of watch and I couldn't help it was one of the saddest most difficult the saddest most difficult the saddest most difficult um experiences it just was it's just um experiences it just was it's just um experiences it just was it's just awful just like that life can end yeah awful just like that life can end yeah awful just like that life can end yeah it could have been it could have been it could have been you yeah I think uh uh so I've had I've you yeah I think uh uh so I've had I've you yeah I think uh uh so I've had I've had a life life a near near-death had a life life a near near-death had a life life a near near-death experience where I where I almost died I experience where I where I almost died I experience where I where I almost died I went I was in

went I was in went I was in 2010 and I think I think that and I I 2010 and I think I think that and I I 2010 and I think I think that and I I broke my neck and I go to that story in broke my neck and I go to that story in broke my neck and I go to that story in a moment but this was this was different a moment but this was this was different a moment but this was this was different this was a this was this comes back to this was a this was this comes back to this was a this was this comes back to the low value of human life part where the low value of human life part where the low value of human life part where uh if someone had killed my brother if uh if someone had killed my brother if uh if someone had killed my brother if that person had beat him to death which that person had beat him to death which that person had beat him to death which which he was trying to do which he was trying to do which he was trying to do um it life would have gone on you know um it life would have gone on you know um it life would have gone on you know is that that's like an insane thought in is that that's like an insane thought in is that that's like an insane thought in an American maybe in some tough an American maybe in some tough an American maybe in some tough neighborhoods but for the most part it's neighborhoods but for the most part it's neighborhoods but for the most part it's a it's another a it's another a it's another thing yeah the brutality of that the the thing yeah the brutality of that the the thing yeah the brutality of that the the mundan of the brutality mundan of the brutality mundan of the brutality yeah it makes you think of all the yeah it makes you think of all the yeah it makes you think of all the places in the world that that's places in the world that that's places in the world that that's happening exactly and all the beautiful happening exactly and all the beautiful happening exactly and all the beautiful people that just disappear I always say people that just disappear I always say people that just disappear I always say to people who who have an opinion about to people who who have an opinion about to people who who have an opinion about America that you know this is a really America that you know this is a really America that you know this is a really bad country or or whatever bad country or or whatever bad country or or whatever and I say look please go try another and I say look please go try another and I say look please go try another country before you say that not to say country before you say that not to say country before you say that not to say that America can't get better but please that America can't get better but please that America can't get better but please go try another country because not go try another country because not go try another country because not having that having that having that perspective or having a perspective that perspective or having a perspective that perspective or having a perspective that that um uh I don't know that could chip that um uh I don't know that could chip that um uh I don't know that could chip on their shoulder about the country that on their shoulder about the country that on their shoulder about the country that they're they're they're in okay go go try another country and in okay go go try another country and in okay go go try another country and then come back and tell me and pick any then come back and tell me and pick any then come back and tell me and pick any country it doesn't have to be um uh you country it doesn't have to be um uh you country it doesn't have to be um uh you doesn't have to be some you know very doesn't have to be some you know very doesn't have to be some you know very violent country you could pick any violent country you could pick any violent country you could pick any country and and and you just realize country and and and you just realize country and and and you just realize that actually the the world doesn't that actually the the world doesn't that actually the the world doesn't think the same way that America thinks

think the same way that America thinks think the same way that America thinks and you'll you're going to just learn a and you'll you're going to just learn a and you'll you're going to just learn a perspective that I think uh gives you a perspective that I think uh gives you a perspective that I think uh gives you a better way to critique um where we live better way to critique um where we live better way to critique um where we live in America yeah it's humbling you said in America yeah it's humbling you said in America yeah it's humbling you said that your dad was a roller coaster of that your dad was a roller coaster of that your dad was a roller coaster of affection and then verbal abuse Walter affection and then verbal abuse Walter affection and then verbal abuse Walter Isaacson quotes Barack Obama who said Isaacson quotes Barack Obama who said Isaacson quotes Barack Obama who said someone once said that every man is someone once said that every man is someone once said that every man is trying to live up to to his father's trying to live up to to his father's trying to live up to to his father's expectations or makeup for his father's expectations or makeup for his father's expectations or makeup for his father's mistakes and I suppose that may explain mistakes and I suppose that may explain mistakes and I suppose that may explain my particular malady uh it's part of my particular malady uh it's part of my particular malady uh it's part of that ring true for you what I thought that ring true for you what I thought that ring true for you what I thought you were going to say was thought you you were going to say was thought you you were going to say was thought you were going to end the sentence with live were going to end the sentence with live were going to end the sentence with live up to my father's expectations MH that's up to my father's expectations MH that's up to my father's expectations MH that's what most people say but then you said what most people say but then you said what most people say but then you said the second part which is make up for his the second part which is make up for his the second part which is make up for his mistakes MH and I think that's actually mistakes MH and I think that's actually mistakes MH and I think that's actually that one is that one Rings true for me that one is that one Rings true for me that one is that one Rings true for me um he was really is still Al but I don't um he was really is still Al but I don't um he was really is still Al but I don't connect I'm not connected to him but connect I'm not connected to him but connect I'm not connected to him but he's very he's very he's very um uh he tght he taught me the phrase I um uh he tght he taught me the phrase I um uh he tght he taught me the phrase I used to have was he taught me what not used to have was he taught me what not used to have was he taught me what not to do so I still actually learned a to do so I still actually learned a to do so I still actually learned a lot what what kind of human not to be lot what what kind of human not to be lot what what kind of human not to be what kind of actions not to take and so what kind of actions not to take and so what kind of actions not to take and so that kind of closer to living up to his that kind of closer to living up to his that kind of closer to living up to his mistakes but it's but um my father is mistakes but it's but um my father is mistakes but it's but um my father is such a train wreck that it's not really such a train wreck that it's not really such a train wreck that it's not really mistakes it's like intentional actions mistakes it's like intentional actions mistakes it's like intentional actions of what not to do okay don't do of what not to do okay don't do of what not to do okay don't do that but there's still the trauma of that but there's still the trauma of that but there's still the trauma of that you know it has an effect on the

that you know it has an effect on the that you know it has an effect on the human psychology and can permeate their human psychology and can permeate their human psychology and can permeate their time so it has probably time so it has probably time so it has probably complex uh indirect effects on who you complex uh indirect effects on who you complex uh indirect effects on who you are the good and the bad there's a um are the good and the bad there's a um are the good and the bad there's a um critique that my friends give me which critique that my friends give me which critique that my friends give me which is when they're talking to me I kind of is when they're talking to me I kind of is when they're talking to me I kind of just Drift Away okay just uh I'm still just Drift Away okay just uh I'm still just Drift Away okay just uh I'm still looking at them still nodding might even looking at them still nodding might even looking at them still nodding might even respond to their to their to them in respond to their to their to them in respond to their to their to them in their conversation but I'm actually not their conversation but I'm actually not their conversation but I'm actually not there and and I I've realized that there and and I I've realized that there and and I I've realized that actually that grew up because my father actually that grew up because my father actually that grew up because my father would just would just would just verbal abuse is one way to say it is verbal abuse is one way to say it is verbal abuse is one way to say it is abuse but it's more just verbal diarrhea abuse but it's more just verbal diarrhea abuse but it's more just verbal diarrhea for for hours and constantly saying do for for hours and constantly saying do for for hours and constantly saying do you understand like he wants to make you understand like he wants to make you understand like he wants to make sure that I'm paying attention so I I sure that I'm paying attention so I I sure that I'm paying attention so I I trained myself to look like I'm paying trained myself to look like I'm paying trained myself to look like I'm paying attention but I'm not to disappear to attention but I'm not to disappear to attention but I'm not to disappear to some place disappear to some place some place disappear to some place some place disappear to some place wherever that is yeah and um and I do I wherever that is yeah and um and I do I wherever that is yeah and um and I do I do that less and less over time but I do that less and less over time but I do that less and less over time but I but that path has been paved somewhere but that path has been paved somewhere but that path has been paved somewhere in your mind at childhood so it it could in your mind at childhood so it it could in your mind at childhood so it it could be easy to walk down be easy to walk down be easy to walk down it you and Elon were close growing up it you and Elon were close growing up it you and Elon were close growing up you're still you're still you're still close what did you learn from each other close what did you learn from each other close what did you learn from each other how did you compliment each other yeah I how did you compliment each other yeah I how did you compliment each other yeah I think we are we a good compliment um my think we are we a good compliment um my think we are we a good compliment um my I'll talk talk for myself first my my my I'll talk talk for myself first my my my I'll talk talk for myself first my my my strength is definitely on the social strength is definitely on the social strength is definitely on the social side I love I love the Gathering

side I love I love the Gathering side I love I love the Gathering Place and I love putting people together Place and I love putting people together Place and I love putting people together in person and I love to have vibrant in person and I love to have vibrant in person and I love to have vibrant debates and conversations I've been debates and conversations I've been debates and conversations I've been doing that forever and including doing that forever and including doing that forever and including throughing fun parties and stuff where throughing fun parties and stuff where throughing fun parties and stuff where where I bring people together and I where I bring people together and I where I bring people together and I really kind of want people to have fun really kind of want people to have fun really kind of want people to have fun and be but be vulnerable in a in a in a and be but be vulnerable in a in a in a and be but be vulnerable in a in a in a not just like silly partying just but not just like silly partying just but not just like silly partying just but actually like let's all connect actually like let's all connect actually like let's all connect definition for me of a good party is definition for me of a good party is definition for me of a good party is people laugh and people laugh and people laugh and cry like I want to people I want to have cry like I want to people I want to have cry like I want to people I want to have people have have an emotional connection people have have an emotional connection people have have an emotional connection um I go to Bernie man every year and um I go to Bernie man every year and um I go to Bernie man every year and that is there's no question you will cry that is there's no question you will cry that is there's no question you will cry at some point during Bernie man no Small at some point during Bernie man no Small at some point during Bernie man no Small Talk No small talk yes exactly no small Talk No small talk yes exactly no small Talk No small talk yes exactly no small talk you're totally right on like most talk you're totally right on like most talk you're totally right on like most parties not parties but most events you parties not parties but most events you parties not parties but most events you go to our like clubs these sort of go to our like clubs these sort of go to our like clubs these sort of nightclubs yeah and I never go to those nightclubs yeah and I never go to those nightclubs yeah and I never go to those and my my joke is it's why would I want and my my joke is it's why would I want and my my joke is it's why would I want to go to a place where I pay to shout to go to a place where I pay to shout to go to a place where I pay to shout small talk in the small talk in the small talk in the dark good line what it feels like I the dark good line what it feels like I the dark good line what it feels like I the only reason I enjoy those places is the only reason I enjoy those places is the only reason I enjoy those places is the full absurdity of exactly that right full absurdity of exactly that right full absurdity of exactly that right it's totally ABS what what are we doing it's totally ABS what what are we doing it's totally ABS what what are we doing what is this what is this like but I what is this what is this like but I what is this what is this like but I have um so my compliment for my brother have um so my compliment for my brother have um so my compliment for my brother was just bringing joy and social was just bringing joy and social was just bringing joy and social connection and he's truly he's an he's connection and he's truly he's an he's connection and he's truly he's an he's an engineering genius an engineering genius an engineering genius I've worked with him forever and we do I've worked with him forever and we do I've worked with him forever and we do compliment each other you just came out compliment each other you just came out compliment each other you just came out with a cookbook by the way thank you for with a cookbook by the way thank you for with a cookbook by the way thank you for giving me my first cookbook I feel legit

giving me my first cookbook I feel legit giving me my first cookbook I feel legit I love first cookbook I'm going to keep I love first cookbook I'm going to keep I love first cookbook I'm going to keep it keep it on the counter and it's going it keep it on the counter and it's going it keep it on the counter and it's going to give me legitimacy when anyone comes to give me legitimacy when anyone comes to give me legitimacy when anyone comes over Hey listen I'm basically a chef now over Hey listen I'm basically a chef now over Hey listen I'm basically a chef now that's right exactly uh when did you that's right exactly uh when did you that's right exactly uh when did you first fall in love with cooking I first fall in love with cooking I first fall in love with cooking I started cooking when I was 11 years old started cooking when I was 11 years old started cooking when I was 11 years old um my mom uh is just she's she's um my mom uh is just she's she's um my mom uh is just she's she's wonderful but she she's self- admittedly wonderful but she she's self- admittedly wonderful but she she's self- admittedly a a a bad cook but but at the time it a a a bad cook but but at the time it a a a bad cook but but at the time it was a it was and I think anyone with was a it was and I think anyone with was a it was and I think anyone with kids goes through this there your kids kids goes through this there your kids kids goes through this there your kids just want like something that spaghetti just want like something that spaghetti just want like something that spaghetti bones or a burger or something and my bones or a burger or something and my bones or a burger or something and my mom would do brown bread plain yogurt mom would do brown bread plain yogurt mom would do brown bread plain yogurt and boiled squash you know like the and boiled squash you know like the and boiled squash you know like the absolute most disgusting things that a absolute most disgusting things that a absolute most disgusting things that a child could imagine eating and so I I child could imagine eating and so I I child could imagine eating and so I I said can I cook and she said yeah if you said can I cook and she said yeah if you said can I cook and she said yeah if you want to cook no problem so I went to the want to cook no problem so I went to the want to cook no problem so I went to the grocery store and I I back in those grocery store and I I back in those grocery store and I I back in those there's a butcher separate to the there's a butcher separate to the there's a butcher separate to the grocery store and went to the Butcher grocery store and went to the Butcher grocery store and went to the Butcher and I said you know what can I cook and and I said you know what can I cook and and I said you know what can I cook and he P pulled out a chicken and he said he P pulled out a chicken and he said he P pulled out a chicken and he said this is uh this is the easiest recipe this is uh this is the easiest recipe this is uh this is the easiest recipe for you just put it on a pan in an oven for you just put it on a pan in an oven for you just put it on a pan in an oven a hot oven cuz back then the ovens a hot oven cuz back then the ovens a hot oven cuz back then the ovens weren't necessarily like 400° or 450 or weren't necessarily like 400° or 450 or weren't necessarily like 400° or 450 or whatever and put it in a hot oven for 1 whatever and put it in a hot oven for 1 whatever and put it in a hot oven for 1 hour and enjoy that was it and uh so I I hour and enjoy that was it and uh so I I hour and enjoy that was it and uh so I I went home and uh actually I also brought went home and uh actually I also brought went home and uh actually I also brought some french fries I'll tell you that as some french fries I'll tell you that as some french fries I'll tell you that as well so I I'm I'm I'm a kid of course I well so I I'm I'm I'm a kid of course I well so I I'm I'm I'm a kid of course I went french fries so I the roast chicken

went french fries so I the roast chicken went french fries so I the roast chicken with french fries and the chicken came with french fries and the chicken came with french fries and the chicken came out and it was just fantastic it was out and it was just fantastic it was out and it was just fantastic it was absolutely fantastic that's incredible absolutely fantastic that's incredible absolutely fantastic that's incredible by the way yeah you didn't screw it up by the way yeah you didn't screw it up by the way yeah you didn't screw it up the first time first of I think that's the first time first of I think that's the first time first of I think that's also kicks off the magic like you if you also kicks off the magic like you if you also kicks off the magic like you if you screw it up and you're like oh maybe screw it up and you're like oh maybe screw it up and you're like oh maybe this is not for me so for me it really this is not for me so for me it really this is not for me so for me it really did did kick it off he started he did did kick it off he started he did did kick it off he started he started out on a high no yeah right started out on a high no yeah right started out on a high no yeah right exactly but I but I tell the French FR exactly but I but I tell the French FR exactly but I but I tell the French FR part which was a disaster so I cooked part which was a disaster so I cooked part which was a disaster so I cooked the french fries but I didn't heat the the french fries but I didn't heat the the french fries but I didn't heat the oil first so I just put the potatoes in oil first so I just put the potatoes in oil first so I just put the potatoes in the oil and I waited for it to heat up the oil and I waited for it to heat up the oil and I waited for it to heat up and um I just was throwing up later that and um I just was throwing up later that and um I just was throwing up later that night you can't your body can't ingest night you can't your body can't ingest night you can't your body can't ingest that much cuz it sucks the oils in oh oh that much cuz it sucks the oils in oh oh that much cuz it sucks the oils in oh oh and so that was a disaster but but at and so that was a disaster but but at and so that was a disaster but but at the time it tasted good the the time it tasted good the the time it tasted good the M the the the real magic which I also M the the the real magic which I also M the the the real magic which I also found was one wonderful was uh when I found was one wonderful was uh when I found was one wonderful was uh when I cooked you know my brother my sister my cooked you know my brother my sister my cooked you know my brother my sister my mom all very very busy very intense mom all very very busy very intense mom all very very busy very intense people would sit people would sit people would sit down and we would have a meal together down and we would have a meal together down and we would have a meal together and I was like wow this is a powerful and I was like wow this is a powerful and I was like wow this is a powerful it's a very powerful thing that I've now it's a very powerful thing that I've now it's a very powerful thing that I've now got where in no other way could I have got where in no other way could I have got where in no other way could I have that connection with my family I mean that connection with my family I mean that connection with my family I mean obviously we stay connected we're very obviously we stay connected we're very obviously we stay connected we're very close Etc but in no other way can we sit close Etc but in no other way can we sit close Etc but in no other way can we sit down and just talk about things or talk down and just talk about things or talk down and just talk about things or talk about whatever is on our mind or just to about whatever is on our mind or just to about whatever is on our mind or just to just not even talk just to just to be in just not even talk just to just to be in just not even talk just to just to be in in at the table together and I've done in at the table together and I've done in at the table together and I've done that now we through my whole life my that now we through my whole life my that now we through my whole life my kids um still for my family uh and we

kids um still for my family uh and we kids um still for my family uh and we will do gratitudes at the beginning of will do gratitudes at the beginning of will do gratitudes at the beginning of our meal and it's just I think the what our meal and it's just I think the what our meal and it's just I think the what kept me cooking what made my love of kept me cooking what made my love of kept me cooking what made my love of cooking so great was was actually the cooking so great was was actually the cooking so great was was actually the fact that we would sit down together and fact that we would sit down together and fact that we would sit down together and be be present with each other and I'm be be present with each other and I'm be be present with each other and I'm also just also hard with that too so I I also just also hard with that too so I I also just also hard with that too so I I also get to be present what is that also get to be present what is that also get to be present what is that about food that like brings people about food that like brings people about food that like brings people together and not just together but like together and not just together but like together and not just together but like really together where you're like paying really together where you're like paying really together where you're like paying attention right like what is that what attention right like what is that what attention right like what is that what what is why is it food like what else what is why is it food like what else what is why is it food like what else does that sometimes maybe alcohol can do does that sometimes maybe alcohol can do does that sometimes maybe alcohol can do that which is a kind of food I guess that which is a kind of food I guess that which is a kind of food I guess yeah but I think alcohol is different yeah but I think alcohol is different yeah but I think alcohol is different because you use the standing when you're because you use the standing when you're because you use the standing when you're doing alcohol so you're you're like doing alcohol so you're you're like doing alcohol so you're you're like you're socializing but it's kind you you're socializing but it's kind you you're socializing but it's kind you you're going to stay more in the small you're going to stay more in the small you're going to stay more in the small talk Zone yeah right whereas if you sit talk Zone yeah right whereas if you sit talk Zone yeah right whereas if you sit down yeah and I I see this in my down yeah and I I see this in my down yeah and I I see this in my restaurant in the kitchen in Boulder restaurant in the kitchen in Boulder restaurant in the kitchen in Boulder where we we have every Viewpoint or we where we we have every Viewpoint or we where we we have every Viewpoint or we go to Denver every Viewpoint in Chicago go to Denver every Viewpoint in Chicago go to Denver every Viewpoint in Chicago every Viewpoint and um the physical every Viewpoint and um the physical every Viewpoint and um the physical presence of someone being with right presence of someone being with right presence of someone being with right there uh is people are just they're just there uh is people are just they're just there uh is people are just they're just they're just very different absolutely they're just very different absolutely they're just very different absolutely different to what they are online I different to what they are online I different to what they are online I think we all know the difference between think we all know the difference between think we all know the difference between you know you send an email to someone you know you send an email to someone you know you send an email to someone and they they they misunderstand email and they they they misunderstand email and they they they misunderstand email mhm right that and you oh if I just mhm right that and you oh if I just mhm right that and you oh if I just talked to the person it would have been talked to the person it would have been talked to the person it would have been fine well this is now happening at scale fine well this is now happening at scale fine well this is now happening at scale you know with all of these uh these you know with all of these uh these you know with all of these uh these these uh what do you call trolling or these uh what do you call trolling or these uh what do you call trolling or whatever and I I have I've I've sat at a

whatever and I I have I've I've sat at a whatever and I I have I've I've sat at a at the bar and I've had a hardcore Trump at the bar and I've had a hardcore Trump at the bar and I've had a hardcore Trump supporter and I and I'm just I'm just supporter and I and I'm just I'm just supporter and I and I'm just I'm just curious just like tell me what I'm not a curious just like tell me what I'm not a curious just like tell me what I'm not a trump supporter but but like tell me trump supporter but but like tell me trump supporter but but like tell me more and and and it actually draws the more and and and it actually draws the more and and and it actually draws the conversation out because you're there conversation out because you're there conversation out because you're there there for an hour or longer so there's there for an hour or longer so there's there for an hour or longer so there's there's no rush to get the answer and I there's no rush to get the answer and I there's no rush to get the answer and I think that's a big difference um I've think that's a big difference um I've think that's a big difference um I've had uh one time where just a just a had uh one time where just a just a had uh one time where just a just a couple months ago um I had someone I was couple months ago um I had someone I was couple months ago um I had someone I was sitting at the community table we have a sitting at the community table we have a sitting at the community table we have a community table in the restaurant and community table in the restaurant and community table in the restaurant and and he was I didn't know him too well and he was I didn't know him too well and he was I didn't know him too well but he asked me did I know that 9/11 was but he asked me did I know that 9/11 was but he asked me did I know that 9/11 was a conspiracy and it didn't really happen a conspiracy and it didn't really happen a conspiracy and it didn't really happen it didn't happen yeah M and I was like it didn't happen yeah M and I was like it didn't happen yeah M and I was like huh so I I was at 911 I was I watched I huh so I I was at 911 I was I watched I huh so I I was at 911 I was I watched I mean I watched the towers 4 I was like I mean I watched the towers 4 I was like I mean I watched the towers 4 I was like I was there physically there so there like was there physically there so there like was there physically there so there like no allegedly there's no doubt in my mind no allegedly there's no doubt in my mind no allegedly there's no doubt in my mind okay but I but I but I didn't want to okay but I but I but I didn't want to okay but I but I but I didn't want to but I didn't want to interrupt his his but I didn't want to interrupt his his but I didn't want to interrupt his his what he had to say so I let him talk for what he had to say so I let him talk for what he had to say so I let him talk for five minutes 6 minutes 7 minutes and five minutes 6 minutes 7 minutes and five minutes 6 minutes 7 minutes and again you're there for a while so you're again you're there for a while so you're again you're there for a while so you're not in a rush to to jump in and argue not in a rush to to jump in and argue not in a rush to to jump in and argue and then I shed that I was there and I and then I shed that I was there and I and then I shed that I was there and I think because I had been willing to think because I had been willing to think because I had been willing to listen to listen to listen to him he was willing to listen to him he was willing to listen to him he was willing to listen to me and he I don't know if he changed his me and he I don't know if he changed his me and he I don't know if he changed his mind certain he doesn't change my mind mind certain he doesn't change my mind mind certain he doesn't change my mind but but it was actually a pretty cool but but it was actually a pretty cool but but it was actually a pretty cool conversation to kind of get into each conversation to kind of get into each conversation to kind of get into each other's mind well I think you connect on

other's mind well I think you connect on other's mind well I think you connect on a different level not on the level of a different level not on the level of a different level not on the level of like the the conspiracy but on the level like the the conspiracy but on the level like the the conspiracy but on the level of basic Humanity yes like that's what of basic Humanity yes like that's what of basic Humanity yes like that's what you really connect on and then it's you really connect on and then it's you really connect on and then it's almost becomes interesting and fun that almost becomes interesting and fun that almost becomes interesting and fun that you can exchange ideas even crazy ideas you can exchange ideas even crazy ideas you can exchange ideas even crazy ideas out there ideas and kind of play with out there ideas and kind of play with out there ideas and kind of play with them like we humans are good at that them like we humans are good at that them like we humans are good at that yeah exactly I like the I like the term yeah exactly I like the I like the term yeah exactly I like the I like the term play with them because what what you're play with them because what what you're play with them because what what you're not trying to do is shut the not trying to do is shut the not trying to do is shut the conversation down you're also not trying conversation down you're also not trying conversation down you're also not trying to talk down yeah exactly like you know to talk down yeah exactly like you know to talk down yeah exactly like you know let me just be nice while I totally let me just be nice while I totally let me just be nice while I totally disagree with this person um you can do disagree with this person um you can do disagree with this person um you can do that for a few minutes you can't do that that for a few minutes you can't do that that for a few minutes you can't do that for two hours and there's something like for two hours and there's something like for two hours and there's something like about food that completely it I don't about food that completely it I don't about food that completely it I don't know it must know it must know it must be uh evolutionary that it it makes us be uh evolutionary that it it makes us be uh evolutionary that it it makes us vulnerable in a way that even just vulnerable in a way that even just vulnerable in a way that even just standing there for a long period of time standing there for a long period of time standing there for a long period of time doesn't there's something doesn't there's something doesn't there's something about you know like when the animals about you know like when the animals about you know like when the animals gather to the water or whatever yeah gather to the water or whatever yeah gather to the water or whatever yeah right like this kind of experience where right like this kind of experience where right like this kind of experience where you're just like all right let's let's you're just like all right let's let's you're just like all right let's let's just acknowledge together that we need just acknowledge together that we need just acknowledge together that we need sustenance yeah and somehow that kind of sustenance yeah and somehow that kind of sustenance yeah and somehow that kind of grounds us to like we're just we're just grounds us to like we're just we're just grounds us to like we're just we're just a bunch of descendants of Apes here just a bunch of descendants of Apes here just a bunch of descendants of Apes here just kind of like uh grateful to be alive kind of like uh grateful to be alive kind of like uh grateful to be alive frankly and grateful to be consuming frankly and grateful to be consuming frankly and grateful to be consuming this thing which keeps us alive and in this thing which keeps us alive and in this thing which keeps us alive and in that context you can talk about all

that context you can talk about all that context you can talk about all kinds of stuff you can discuss Flat kinds of stuff you can discuss Flat kinds of stuff you can discuss Flat Earth and enjoy absolutely absolutely in Earth and enjoy absolutely absolutely in Earth and enjoy absolutely absolutely in fact um one of my favorite things to do fact um one of my favorite things to do fact um one of my favorite things to do is uh is is you do a like a Jeffersonian is uh is is you do a like a Jeffersonian is uh is is you do a like a Jeffersonian style dinner like let's say five or six style dinner like let's say five or six style dinner like let's say five or six people sometimes you can people will people sometimes you can people will people sometimes you can people will break off in individual conversations break off in individual conversations break off in individual conversations that's actually when things break down that's actually when things break down that's actually when things break down mhm so that's when you kind of go back mhm so that's when you kind of go back mhm so that's when you kind of go back to small talk like oh I'm stuck next to to small talk like oh I'm stuck next to to small talk like oh I'm stuck next to this guy I'm just going to do a small this guy I'm just going to do a small this guy I'm just going to do a small talk what you need to do to really talk what you need to do to really talk what you need to do to really create a great conversation is one create a great conversation is one create a great conversation is one conversation at the table and that's conversation at the table and that's conversation at the table and that's where uh you know there'll be some where uh you know there'll be some where uh you know there'll be some some uh simple questions that I'll say some uh simple questions that I'll say some uh simple questions that I'll say I'll say you know what's your middle I'll say you know what's your middle I'll say you know what's your middle name and you'll be amazed at the stories name and you'll be amazed at the stories name and you'll be amazed at the stories you get from that but it's it's about you get from that but it's it's about you get from that but it's it's about creating vulnerability yeah so they're creating vulnerability yeah so they're creating vulnerability yeah so they're like oh no one's ever asked me that like oh no one's ever asked me that like oh no one's ever asked me that before so then they they become before so then they they become before so then they they become vulnerable and then then something as vulnerable and then then something as vulnerable and then then something as simple as what's the most fun thing simple as what's the most fun thing simple as what's the most fun thing you've done recently and what is the you've done recently and what is the you've done recently and what is the most fun thing you're looking forward to most fun thing you're looking forward to most fun thing you're looking forward to mhm and I have gotten into with those mhm and I have gotten into with those mhm and I have gotten into with those prom prompts I've gotten into hours long prom prompts I've gotten into hours long prom prompts I've gotten into hours long discussions on God I've gotten into discussions on God I've gotten into discussions on God I've gotten into hours long discussions on hours long discussions on hours long discussions on love um I've gotten into hours long love um I've gotten into hours long love um I've gotten into hours long discussions discussions discussions on on on anger it's actually amazing when people anger it's actually amazing when people anger it's actually amazing when people are just asked the question like what's are just asked the question like what's are just asked the question like what's the most fun thing you've done lately the most fun thing you've done lately the most fun thing you've done lately well why would anger come up well well why would anger come up well well why would anger come up well actually they they're in a vulnerable actually they they're in a vulnerable actually they they're in a vulnerable place so it'll just kind of come out of place so it'll just kind of come out of place so it'll just kind of come out of them so you get to see this you get to them so you get to see this you get to them so you get to see this you get to see this at the kitchen and you said see this at the kitchen and you said see this at the kitchen and you said Boulder Denver Chicago yeah and we're Boulder Denver Chicago yeah and we're Boulder Denver Chicago yeah and we're going to open in Austin in Austin that's going to open in Austin in Austin that's going to open in Austin in Austin that's what I saw when when in October is the

what I saw when when in October is the what I saw when when in October is the goal in October is the goal well I mean goal in October is the goal well I mean goal in October is the goal well I mean speaking of characters and human beings speaking of characters and human beings speaking of characters and human beings Austin is fascinating I've um I forget Austin is fascinating I've um I forget Austin is fascinating I've um I forget how long ago me a couple months ago I how long ago me a couple months ago I how long ago me a couple months ago I was just uh sitting at a bar and some was just uh sitting at a bar and some was just uh sitting at a bar and some the two people were talking and they the two people were talking and they the two people were talking and they were talking about Marxism and it turns were talking about Marxism and it turns were talking about Marxism and it turns out that they're anarco Communists which out that they're anarco Communists which out that they're anarco Communists which is a thing and I got into this convers is a thing and I got into this convers is a thing and I got into this convers communist likes communist likes communist likes drugs that's a good question drugs that's a good question drugs that's a good question ask I think I know some of ask I think I know some of ask I think I know some of those anyway they were beautiful people those anyway they were beautiful people those anyway they were beautiful people I think they they're local from Austin I I think they they're local from Austin I I think they they're local from Austin I don't you know I don't know the depth of don't you know I don't know the depth of don't you know I don't know the depth of their uh personal experience of the their uh personal experience of the their uh personal experience of the different kinds of communist like different kinds of communist like different kinds of communist like systems but it was fascinating to listen systems but it was fascinating to listen systems but it was fascinating to listen to them and get to know them and the the to them and get to know them and the the to them and get to know them and the the humanity the weirdness like the humanity the weirdness like the humanity the weirdness like the characters it's just I mean I love it characters it's just I mean I love it characters it's just I mean I love it one of the reasons I really love Austin one of the reasons I really love Austin one of the reasons I really love Austin I decided to uh be here is just the the I decided to uh be here is just the the I decided to uh be here is just the the cliche thing of Keep Austin Weird I mean cliche thing of Keep Austin Weird I mean cliche thing of Keep Austin Weird I mean there's a lot of weird I love it think I there's a lot of weird I love it think I there's a lot of weird I love it think I think that um I've talken to a lot of think that um I've talken to a lot of think that um I've talken to a lot of atin I have been here forever and I'm atin I have been here forever and I'm atin I have been here forever and I'm like man you got to hold us accountable like man you got to hold us accountable like man you got to hold us accountable we got to keep this place weird 100% we got to keep this place weird 100% we got to keep this place weird 100% which makes the restaurant seem great which makes the restaurant seem great which makes the restaurant seem great because CU you have all these characters because CU you have all these characters because CU you have all these characters come in it's it's great so I look come in it's it's great so I look come in it's it's great so I look forward to that but you were saying like forward to that but you were saying like forward to that but you were saying like you get to see humans in real life you get to see humans in real life you get to see humans in real life interact that's one of the beautiful interact that's one of the beautiful interact that's one of the beautiful things over food in the book you write things over food in the book you write things over food in the book you write Picasso once said the meaning of life is Picasso once said the meaning of life is Picasso once said the meaning of life is to find your gift the purpose of life is to find your gift the purpose of life is to find your gift the purpose of life is to give it away then you wrote that you

to give it away then you wrote that you to give it away then you wrote that you believe food is a gift we give ourselves believe food is a gift we give ourselves believe food is a gift we give ourselves three times a day can you explain that three times a day can you explain that three times a day can you explain that the gift yeah it's actually um I think the gift yeah it's actually um I think the gift yeah it's actually um I think it's one of my most powerful life it's one of my most powerful life it's one of my most powerful life lessons is is we we have to eat so it's lessons is is we we have to eat so it's lessons is is we we have to eat so it's it's not it's not like you have a choice it's not it's not like you have a choice it's not it's not like you have a choice you have to eat and so what I choose to you have to eat and so what I choose to you have to eat and so what I choose to do is I'm choose to make it a gift to do is I'm choose to make it a gift to do is I'm choose to make it a gift to myself each for each meal and most of myself each for each meal and most of myself each for each meal and most of the time the best gift is with friends the time the best gift is with friends the time the best gift is with friends with with family so we out to C cook with with family so we out to C cook with with family so we out to C cook some scrambled eggs in the morning with some scrambled eggs in the morning with some scrambled eggs in the morning with my daughter or we'll have dinner with my daughter or we'll have dinner with my daughter or we'll have dinner with the our family to me it's a it's a gift the our family to me it's a it's a gift the our family to me it's a it's a gift we give ourselves three times a day you we give ourselves three times a day you we give ourselves three times a day you know at least but for the most part know at least but for the most part know at least but for the most part three times a day let's make it a good three times a day let's make it a good three times a day let's make it a good one what makes it a good one to you like one what makes it a good one to you like one what makes it a good one to you like what what aspect what makes it a good what what aspect what makes it a good what what aspect what makes it a good one well first definitely eating with one well first definitely eating with one well first definitely eating with with people so that makes it a good one with people so that makes it a good one with people so that makes it a good one so eating um eating as a in a restaurant so eating um eating as a in a restaurant so eating um eating as a in a restaurant or it doesn't have to be my restaurant or it doesn't have to be my restaurant or it doesn't have to be my restaurant where you have the energy of of people where you have the energy of of people where you have the energy of of people around you energy of the Town people you around you energy of the Town people you around you energy of the Town people you don't know creates a little bit of a don't know creates a little bit of a don't know creates a little bit of a vibe that you you mentioned the The vibe that you you mentioned the The vibe that you you mentioned the The Watering Hole analogy that animals like Watering Hole analogy that animals like Watering Hole analogy that animals like sipping at the water but there's a sipping at the water but there's a sipping at the water but there's a there's an to that because they're also there's an to that because they're also there's an to that because they're also like looking around going is am I just like looking around going is am I just like looking around going is am I just about to be about to be about to be eaten so there's they're all in it eaten so there's they're all in it eaten so there's they're all in it together but we need to have water but together but we need to have water but together but we need to have water but there also a little bit of tension as there also a little bit of tension as there also a little bit of tension as well in the background and I think well in the background and I think well in the background and I think that's what restaurants do is a very that's what restaurants do is a very that's what restaurants do is a very very subtle version of that you're in a very subtle version of that you're in a very subtle version of that you're in a room with strangers yeah and you're yeah

room with strangers yeah and you're yeah room with strangers yeah and you're yeah you're a little cluster okay fine you you're a little cluster okay fine you you're a little cluster okay fine you guys are connected and yeah but you're guys are connected and yeah but you're guys are connected and yeah but you're in a room of strangers and it's just in a room of strangers and it's just in a room of strangers and it's just something that adds that energy to to something that adds that energy to to something that adds that energy to to the meal yeah you're a little bit the meal yeah you're a little bit the meal yeah you're a little bit wondering like what does everyone else wondering like what does everyone else wondering like what does everyone else think about our little cluster right think about our little cluster right think about our little cluster right like are we too loud or or or just you like are we too loud or or or just you like are we too loud or or or just you also just people are random so something also just people are random so something also just people are random so something random could happen and also depending random could happen and also depending random could happen and also depending on your personality if you're an on your personality if you're an on your personality if you're an extrovert maybe you want to show off to extrovert maybe you want to show off to extrovert maybe you want to show off to the other cluster exactly yeah the other cluster exactly yeah the other cluster exactly yeah absolutely totally right I mean you know absolutely totally right I mean you know absolutely totally right I mean you know look at the cowboy look at the cowboy look at the cowboy hat I mean actually I'll take my hat off hat I mean actually I'll take my hat off hat I mean actually I'll take my hat off when I want to have a quiet meal and I when I want to have a quiet meal and I when I want to have a quiet meal and I can leave my head on when I'm so you're can leave my head on when I'm so you're can leave my head on when I'm so you're aware of the L I'm aware of the effect aware of the L I'm aware of the effect aware of the L I'm aware of the effect it has yeah absolutely everyone turns it has yeah absolutely everyone turns it has yeah absolutely everyone turns right and then it's back to the watering right and then it's back to the watering right and then it's back to the watering hole cuz when you wear a cowboy hat you hole cuz when you wear a cowboy hat you hole cuz when you wear a cowboy hat you just might actually not yeah I'm I'm just might actually not yeah I'm I'm just might actually not yeah I'm I'm like they're going to come they're going like they're going to come they're going like they're going to come they're going to get me to get me to get me first at noon I love it I I got to tell first at noon I love it I I got to tell first at noon I love it I I got to tell the story so talk to the the the the story so talk to the the the the story so talk to the the the craziness of being of being in the craziness of being of being in the craziness of being of being in the restaurant world where you know you're restaurant world where you know you're restaurant world where you know you're sitting at a table and anything can sitting at a table and anything can sitting at a table and anything can happen in the restaurant so there's one happen in the restaurant so there's one happen in the restaurant so there's one time like 15 years ago the um this guy time like 15 years ago the um this guy time like 15 years ago the um this guy comes up to us and says we'd like to comes up to us and says we'd like to comes up to us and says we'd like to propose to his wife his his girlfriend propose to his wife his his girlfriend propose to his wife his his girlfriend um and and uh and so we we said okay um and and uh and so we we said okay um and and uh and so we we said okay cool that we've done this cool that we've done this cool that we've done this before make sure it's all set up 6 p.m.

before make sure it's all set up 6 p.m. before make sure it's all set up 6 p.m. kind of reservation so she shows up and kind of reservation so she shows up and kind of reservation so she shows up and uh we we give her a glass of champagne uh we we give her a glass of champagne uh we we give her a glass of champagne and just yeah we didn't obviously didn't and just yeah we didn't obviously didn't and just yeah we didn't obviously didn't want to spoil the surprise we just doing want to spoil the surprise we just doing want to spoil the surprise we just doing everything weend but then he doesn't everything weend but then he doesn't everything weend but then he doesn't then he doesn't arrive and then we're then he doesn't arrive and then we're then he doesn't arrive and then we're like oh man now we're like don't don't like oh man now we're like don't don't like oh man now we're like don't don't leave can we get you another glass of leave can we get you another glass of leave can we get you another glass of champ we're doing everything we can champ we're doing everything we can champ we're doing everything we can because the guy was obviously Earnest because the guy was obviously Earnest because the guy was obviously Earnest earlier we just is he in traffic or earlier we just is he in traffic or earlier we just is he in traffic or whatever and uh out coming through the whatever and uh out coming through the whatever and uh out coming through the back door of the restaurant which is back door of the restaurant which is back door of the restaurant which is you're not allowed to come through the you're not allowed to come through the you're not allowed to come through the back door of the restaurant a marching back door of the restaurant a marching back door of the restaurant a marching band from the school of the University band from the school of the University band from the school of the University like comes through the restaurant you like comes through the restaurant you like comes through the restaurant you know fullon Brass Band and the whole know fullon Brass Band and the whole know fullon Brass Band and the whole thing and um and you know he gets down thing and um and you know he gets down thing and um and you know he gets down and he proposes and it's it's it's it's and he proposes and it's it's it's it's and he proposes and it's it's it's it's it's it's beautiful sure but it's also it's it's beautiful sure but it's also it's it's beautiful sure but it's also like chaos man this is chaos this is like chaos man this is chaos this is like chaos man this is chaos this is insane and we would never have said yes insane and we would never have said yes insane and we would never have said yes to this if he had actually told us what to this if he had actually told us what to this if he had actually told us what he was going to do well sometimes in he was going to do well sometimes in he was going to do well sometimes in life yeah you have to uh do it and life yeah you have to uh do it and life yeah you have to uh do it and apologize you do it and apologize but apologize you do it and apologize but apologize you do it and apologize but that talks to that kind of what's the that talks to that kind of what's the that talks to that kind of what's the crazy thing that could happen in crazy thing that could happen in crazy thing that could happen in a it's subtle but it's but it's still a it's subtle but it's but it's still a it's subtle but it's but it's still there so in 2004 you opened the kitchen there so in 2004 you opened the kitchen there so in 2004 you opened the kitchen it's an American uh beastro restaurant it's an American uh beastro restaurant it's an American uh beastro restaurant what was it like what's it like running what was it like what's it like running what was it like what's it like running a restaurant The Good the Bad and ugly a restaurant The Good the Bad and ugly a restaurant The Good the Bad and ugly what's the what's the easy what's the what's the what's the easy what's the what's the what's the easy what's the fun and what's the hard I think the fun and what's the hard I think the fun and what's the hard I think the thing that I absolutely love about thing that I absolutely love about thing that I absolutely love about running the restaurant not eating it I running the restaurant not eating it I running the restaurant not eating it I but running the restaurant is the the but running the restaurant is the the but running the restaurant is the the tangible tangible tangible reaction from from people and uh um you reaction from from people and uh um you reaction from from people and uh um you you know you also kind of know when you you know you also kind of know when you you know you also kind of know when you screwed it up and you also know when you

screwed it up and you also know when you screwed it up and you also know when you got it right so even it's kind of a got it right so even it's kind of a got it right so even it's kind of a weird way to say this but even if the weird way to say this but even if the weird way to say this but even if the customer's customer's customer's unhappy you know whether you got a right unhappy you know whether you got a right unhappy you know whether you got a right or wrong it's not just about the food or wrong it's not just about the food or wrong it's not just about the food you're making but it's about the you're making but it's about the you're making but it's about the person's psychological State yeah and person's psychological State yeah and person's psychological State yeah and you'll even you'll you'll do something you'll even you'll you'll do something you'll even you'll you'll do something that you like you you know that that was that you like you you know that that was that you like you you know that that was not well and their psychological state not well and their psychological state not well and their psychological state is they're just in a very happy place is they're just in a very happy place is they're just in a very happy place and they love it and you're like huh and they love it and you're like huh and they love it and you're like huh interesting you know like that's not how interesting you know like that's not how interesting you know like that's not how I would have reacted to that dish yeah I would have reacted to that dish yeah I would have reacted to that dish yeah and then the other way around you like and then the other way around you like and then the other way around you like no I got that right and that that person no I got that right and that that person no I got that right and that that person is just like really unhappy today yeah is just like really unhappy today yeah is just like really unhappy today yeah and it's so hard to read humans because and it's so hard to read humans because and it's so hard to read humans because you have you have you have to if you got to to if you got to to if you got to write that can look a million different write that can look a million different write that can look a million different ways depending on the emotional role ways depending on the emotional role ways depending on the emotional role course that human is living through like course that human is living through like course that human is living through like I've been some very low points and I've I've been some very low points and I've I've been some very low points and I've gone to like a restaurant alone and just gone to like a restaurant alone and just gone to like a restaurant alone and just sitting there and be truly happy with sitting there and be truly happy with sitting there and be truly happy with just the Zen aspect of it and it was just the Zen aspect of it and it was just the Zen aspect of it and it was just a great like a great stake or just a great like a great stake or just a great like a great stake or something like this and maybe to uh something like this and maybe to uh something like this and maybe to uh other people around me would look like other people around me would look like other people around me would look like I'm very unhappy just because I'm very unhappy just because I'm very unhappy just because I'm within my myself with your day yeah I'm within my myself with your day yeah I'm within my myself with your day yeah within myself but I'm truly happy within within myself but I'm truly happy within within myself but I'm truly happy within that struggle so yeah it's interesting that struggle so yeah it's interesting that struggle so yeah it's interesting but you can kind of tell yeah you can but you can kind of tell yeah you can but you can kind of tell yeah you can tell and um what you mentioned being at tell and um what you mentioned being at tell and um what you mentioned being at the bar one of the most gift the the the bar one of the most gift the the the bar one of the most gift the the most gifted bartenders really understand

most gifted bartenders really understand most gifted bartenders really understand that you know it's it it's goes beyond that you know it's it it's goes beyond that you know it's it it's goes beyond um but what's also great about a um but what's also great about a um but what's also great about a restaurant goes beyond the onetime restaurant goes beyond the onetime restaurant goes beyond the onetime experience that you walk in and you have experience that you walk in and you have experience that you walk in and you have that experience is the good bartenders that experience is the good bartenders that experience is the good bartenders they they remember you yeah oh you were they they remember you yeah oh you were they they remember you yeah oh you were in a few months ago and this this is in a few months ago and this this is in a few months ago and this this is kind of your thing you might need a kind of your thing you might need a kind of your thing you might need a little time M and um uh other other little time M and um uh other other little time M and um uh other other people come and they want a conversation people come and they want a conversation people come and they want a conversation yeah or other people come in and they're yeah or other people come in and they're yeah or other people come in and they're going through a divorce and they just going through a divorce and they just going through a divorce and they just want to be sad for a moment have a want to be sad for a moment have a want to be sad for a moment have a scotch yeah and it's like it's amazing scotch yeah and it's like it's amazing scotch yeah and it's like it's amazing what you learn in the in the rest of what you learn in the in the rest of what you learn in the in the rest of world to just be connected to humanity world to just be connected to humanity world to just be connected to humanity yeah what is that about bars that's a yeah what is that about bars that's a yeah what is that about bars that's a different experience you said the the different experience you said the the different experience you said the the table the the communal the table is when table the the communal the table is when table the the communal the table is when you connect with people learn about each you connect with people learn about each you connect with people learn about each other bars you can sometimes do that you other bars you can sometimes do that you other bars you can sometimes do that you can talk left and right but but you have can talk left and right but but you have can talk left and right but but you have the freedom to always break Break Free the freedom to always break Break Free the freedom to always break Break Free free like you can say oh okay great I'm free like you can say oh okay great I'm free like you can say oh okay great I'm going to go back to my meal it's it's going to go back to my meal it's it's going to go back to my meal it's it's kind of like the it's like a it's a kind of like the it's like a it's a kind of like the it's like a it's a friend you can turn on and off at any friend you can turn on and off at any friend you can turn on and off at any time M because at the bartender knows time M because at the bartender knows time M because at the bartender knows that they're trained like if you want that they're trained like if you want that they're trained like if you want attention I'm going to give it to you if attention I'm going to give it to you if attention I'm going to give it to you if you don't I'm going to I'm going to stay you don't I'm going to I'm going to stay you don't I'm going to I'm going to stay away um if you if you want to be chatty away um if you if you want to be chatty away um if you if you want to be chatty I'll be chatty you want to be completely I'll be chatty you want to be completely I'll be chatty you want to be completely in your head I'll leave you in your head in your head I'll leave you in your head in your head I'll leave you in your head but there's also strangers kind of next but there's also strangers kind of next but there's also strangers kind of next to you that you kind of there's a to you that you kind of there's a to you that you kind of there's a feeling with a bar that you're kind of feeling with a bar that you're kind of feeling with a bar that you're kind of Alone Together yeah right and you can Alone Together yeah right and you can Alone Together yeah right and you can reach out you can add some conversation reach out you can add some conversation reach out you can add some conversation or you can choose not to and you can or you can choose not to and you can or you can choose not to and you can exit quickly you can exit you can exit quickly you can exit you can exit quickly you can exit you can exactly it's a really good exit so so exactly it's a really good exit so so exactly it's a really good exit so so bars are are wonderful and I love going bars are are wonderful and I love going bars are are wonderful and I love going to a bar by myself after

to a bar by myself after to a bar by myself after work I might might have a Squatch might work I might might have a Squatch might work I might might have a Squatch might even not even have alcohol just have even not even have alcohol just have even not even have alcohol just have something and I just uh and maybe have a something and I just uh and maybe have a something and I just uh and maybe have a snack or something before dinner because snack or something before dinner because snack or something before dinner because I'm going to go home and have dinner I'm going to go home and have dinner I'm going to go home and have dinner with with the family and that that 20 with with the family and that that 20 with with the family and that that 20 minutes it's just a an amazing State minutes it's just a an amazing State minutes it's just a an amazing State change from change from change from daytime to nighttime where if I went daytime to nighttime where if I went daytime to nighttime where if I went straight home I'm like still in my head straight home I'm like still in my head straight home I'm like still in my head and I'm just trying to try to get and I'm just trying to try to get and I'm just trying to try to get grounded and I'm just I'm not as grounded and I'm just I'm not as grounded and I'm just I'm not as pleasant of a person so that's another pleasant of a person so that's another pleasant of a person so that's another powerful use of a bar it's just like a powerful use of a bar it's just like a powerful use of a bar it's just like a transition time well I mean it would be transition time well I mean it would be transition time well I mean it would be remiss not to mention the other use of remiss not to mention the other use of remiss not to mention the other use of the bar which is like when you're going the bar which is like when you're going the bar which is like when you're going through some shit in life and you just through some shit in life and you just through some shit in life and you just go I mean that's sort of it's the cliche go I mean that's sort of it's the cliche go I mean that's sort of it's the cliche thing I've been some my thing I've been some my thing I've been some my exactly the but like the bar makes The exactly the but like the bar makes The exactly the but like the bar makes The Melancholy somehow like uh rich and Melancholy somehow like uh rich and Melancholy somehow like uh rich and beautiful and like it's you feel heard beautiful and like it's you feel heard beautiful and like it's you feel heard yeah in the silence yes yes you feel yeah in the silence yes yes you feel yeah in the silence yes yes you feel heard you like like I said earlier like heard you like like I said earlier like heard you like like I said earlier like the the people going through a divorce the the people going through a divorce the the people going through a divorce they don't know where else to go yeah um they don't know where else to go yeah um they don't know where else to go yeah um this is these are mostly men Sometimes this is these are mostly men Sometimes this is these are mostly men Sometimes women will do it but mostly men will do women will do it but mostly men will do women will do it but mostly men will do this and women have other ways of this and women have other ways of this and women have other ways of processing it but they just they want a processing it but they just they want a processing it but they just they want a place to be sad and a place where they place to be sad and a place where they place to be sad and a place where they could could could feel uh comfortable talking about it if feel uh comfortable talking about it if feel uh comfortable talking about it if uh they W they're certainly not going to uh they W they're certainly not going to uh they W they're certainly not going to go into too much detail but they just go into too much detail but they just go into too much detail but they just want to say something yeah and the want to say something yeah and the want to say something yeah and the bartender is there for them yeah you

bartender is there for them yeah you bartender is there for them yeah you don't know where to go you don't know don't know where to go you don't know don't know where to go you don't know where to go exactly the bar the bar yeah where to go exactly the bar the bar yeah where to go exactly the bar the bar yeah you're right like it for men especially you're right like it for men especially you're right like it for men especially is a place to just go and just I don't is a place to just go and just I don't is a place to just go and just I don't know what is that I mean be honest I know what is that I mean be honest I know what is that I mean be honest I still do it myself where if I'm at home still do it myself where if I'm at home still do it myself where if I'm at home and you know don't don't have a work and you know don't don't have a work and you know don't don't have a work thing that I got to deal with and I thing that I got to deal with and I thing that I got to deal with and I don't have kids and I don't have uh my don't have kids and I don't have uh my don't have kids and I don't have uh my wife or a family wife or a family wife or a family around um I I don't often cook for around um I I don't often cook for around um I I don't often cook for myself I I I actually love going to a myself I I I actually love going to a myself I I I actually love going to a bar by myself I have a glass of red wine bar by myself I have a glass of red wine bar by myself I have a glass of red wine and I have you know usually don't have and I have you know usually don't have and I have you know usually don't have starter appetizer I just have like a starter appetizer I just have like a starter appetizer I just have like a main main main meal and I just take in the energy of meal and I just take in the energy of meal and I just take in the energy of the space was my restaurant or someone the space was my restaurant or someone the space was my restaurant or someone else's restaurant just take in the else's restaurant just take in the else's restaurant just take in the energy and it's so much so much better energy and it's so much so much better energy and it's so much so much better than being home and but turning the TV than being home and but turning the TV than being home and but turning the TV on no no no no no I I want to be out in on no no no no no I I want to be out in on no no no no no I I want to be out in the restaurant I want to feel the energy the restaurant I want to feel the energy the restaurant I want to feel the energy of the town uh the other thing that of the town uh the other thing that of the town uh the other thing that restaurants teach me is the they're the restaurants teach me is the they're the restaurants teach me is the they're the front lines of front lines of front lines of of the economy or what the better word of the economy or what the better word of the economy or what the better word for it it's like front front lines of for it it's like front front lines of for it it's like front front lines of the energy of of of how things are going the energy of of of how things are going the energy of of of how things are going oh like of a people's in general like it oh like of a people's in general like it oh like of a people's in general like it doesn't I mean this part of town but it doesn't I mean this part of town but it doesn't I mean this part of town but it could be the entire Society exactly so could be the entire Society exactly so could be the entire Society exactly so you can you can go into a restaurant and you can you can go into a restaurant and you can you can go into a restaurant and I'll use a simple example and the why is I'll use a simple example and the why is I'll use a simple example and the why is the restaurant empty ah there's a the restaurant empty ah there's a the restaurant empty ah there's a football game going on and that's they football game going on and that's they football game going on and that's they PE there's such a large number of people

PE there's such a large number of people PE there's such a large number of people want to watch that game that the want to watch that game that the want to watch that game that the restaurant is quiet or it might be like restaurant is quiet or it might be like restaurant is quiet or it might be like another like World Series or something another like World Series or something another like World Series or something and you're like wow that's so and you're like wow that's so and you're like wow that's so interesting you can actually watch in interesting you can actually watch in interesting you can actually watch in America of course American Humanity you America of course American Humanity you America of course American Humanity you can watch them move in their pattern pns can watch them move in their pattern pns can watch them move in their pattern pns just by being in the restaurant yeah just by being in the restaurant yeah just by being in the restaurant yeah yeah and then another time you might be yeah and then another time you might be yeah and then another time you might be in a restaurant and it's just jamming in a restaurant and it's just jamming in a restaurant and it's just jamming and it's a Monday night and you're like and it's a Monday night and you're like and it's a Monday night and you're like what what what is the energy that what what what is the energy that what what what is the energy that created this on a Monday night and maybe created this on a Monday night and maybe created this on a Monday night and maybe even on a cold February Monday night even on a cold February Monday night even on a cold February Monday night what is it and sometimes you can't find what is it and sometimes you can't find what is it and sometimes you can't find out but you can feel it and it's it's out but you can feel it and it's it's out but you can feel it and it's it's like it's my it's my front lines of like it's my it's my front lines of like it's my it's my front lines of humanity that I that I also just really humanity that I that I also just really humanity that I that I also just really love about the restaurants yeah it could love about the restaurants yeah it could love about the restaurants yeah it could be empty could be full empty bars be empty could be full empty bars be empty could be full empty bars there's some magic to those too yeah you there's some magic to those too yeah you there's some magic to those too yeah you could still feel that energy I don't could still feel that energy I don't could still feel that energy I don't know I actually prefer empty bars than know I actually prefer empty bars than know I actually prefer empty bars than than full ones just you and the than full ones just you and the than full ones just you and the bartender I mean some of my greatest bartender I mean some of my greatest bartender I mean some of my greatest experience is just the quiet bar with experience is just the quiet bar with experience is just the quiet bar with just me and the bartender and they're just me and the bartender and they're just me and the bartender and they're doing their thing and they've seen so doing their thing and they've seen so doing their thing and they've seen so many I've almost like through osmosis many I've almost like through osmosis many I've almost like through osmosis somehow feel the stories that that somehow feel the stories that that somehow feel the stories that that bartender has seen has felt has heard bartender has seen has felt has heard bartender has seen has felt has heard yeah and all that kind of stuff I mean yeah and all that kind of stuff I mean yeah and all that kind of stuff I mean that it's it's not to be sort of that it's it's not to be sort of that it's it's not to be sort of uh like spiritual about it but it seems uh like spiritual about it but it seems uh like spiritual about it but it seems like it's in the walls or something like like it's in the walls or something like like it's in the walls or something like there's the history is felt and some of there's the history is felt and some of there's the history is felt and some of these bars are actually very old and and these bars are actually very old and and these bars are actually very old and and it's wonderful like there many in Europe it's wonderful like there many in Europe it's wonderful like there many in Europe like this but there's a couple in New like this but there's a couple in New like this but there's a couple in New York City few hundred years old and you York City few hundred years old and you York City few hundred years old and you you and they're still operating non-stop you and they're still operating non-stop you and they're still operating non-stop for that long and man you feel it yeah

for that long and man you feel it yeah for that long and man you feel it yeah let me ask you some questions about let me ask you some questions about let me ask you some questions about ingredients what's your favorite ingredients what's your favorite ingredients what's your favorite ingredient to cook with for me cooking ingredient to cook with for me cooking ingredient to cook with for me cooking is an art right so be like asking me is an art right so be like asking me is an art right so be like asking me what's my favorite favorite paint color what's my favorite favorite paint color what's my favorite favorite paint color that use it doesn't it's not that it that use it doesn't it's not that it that use it doesn't it's not that it there it isn't like um there isn't one there it isn't like um there isn't one there it isn't like um there isn't one it's more like when there is one it it's more like when there is one it it's more like when there is one it really is one you know like there's really is one you know like there's really is one you know like there's Peaches on the on the cover of this Peaches on the on the cover of this Peaches on the on the cover of this cookbook those peaches that those were cookbook those peaches that those were cookbook those peaches that those were in August Colorado in August Colorado in August Colorado peaches it just doesn't get any better peaches it just doesn't get any better peaches it just doesn't get any better than that on that day at that moment than that on that day at that moment than that on that day at that moment that was the best that was the but that that was the best that was the but that that was the best that was the but that only lasts for a week and then they only lasts for a week and then they only lasts for a week and then they don't taste so great don't taste so great don't taste so great yeah but damn they so good in that yeah but damn they so good in that yeah but damn they so good in that moment and you just can't stop wanting moment and you just can't stop wanting moment and you just can't stop wanting to use that ingredient they look really to use that ingredient they look really to use that ingredient they look really good they are so good what's your good they are so good what's your good they are so good what's your favorite uh fruit I'm I love veggies and favorite uh fruit I'm I love veggies and favorite uh fruit I'm I love veggies and fruit what's your favorite fruit I love fruit what's your favorite fruit I love fruit what's your favorite fruit I love a smoothie Bowl so I do sort of a a smoothie Bowl so I do sort of a a smoothie Bowl so I do sort of a berries berries berries raspberries uh but I but I use fruit raspberries uh but I but I use fruit raspberries uh but I but I use fruit more in the form of a smoothie Bowl than more in the form of a smoothie Bowl than more in the form of a smoothie Bowl than I eat fruit that often I like I like an I eat fruit that often I like I like an I eat fruit that often I like I like an apple or banana but for most part I apple or banana but for most part I apple or banana but for most part I prefer like the Blended not me I love prefer like the Blended not me I love prefer like the Blended not me I love the way you casually set it like an the way you casually set it like an the way you casually set it like an apple for me a good apple is pretty apple for me a good apple is pretty apple for me a good apple is pretty great for me it's a problem I great for me it's a problem I great for me it's a problem I think probably Cherry's number think probably Cherry's number think probably Cherry's number one probably uh what are they called one probably uh what are they called one probably uh what are they called granny smooth apples number two oh yeah granny smooth apples number two oh yeah granny smooth apples number two oh yeah those are great but try when sometime those are great but try when sometime those are great but try when sometime come to Colorado in August and when you come to Colorado in August and when you come to Colorado in August and when you try those peaches it is try those peaches it is try those peaches it is like heaven has arrived in your mouth it

like heaven has arrived in your mouth it like heaven has arrived in your mouth it is so ridiculously good but just for a is so ridiculously good but just for a is so ridiculously good but just for a week in a just for a week you can't have week in a just for a week you can't have week in a just for a week you can't have it all year long okay it all year long okay it all year long okay uh what about veggies you wrote that uh what about veggies you wrote that uh what about veggies you wrote that Chef Hugo that you worked with the Chef Hugo that you worked with the Chef Hugo that you worked with the co-founded the kitchen with taught you co-founded the kitchen with taught you co-founded the kitchen with taught you the power of a good vegetable yeah the power of a good vegetable yeah the power of a good vegetable yeah what's the power of a good vegetable so what's the power of a good vegetable so what's the power of a good vegetable so I trained in New York right as a French I trained in New York right as a French I trained in New York right as a French chef but it wasn't very much ingredients chef but it wasn't very much ingredients chef but it wasn't very much ingredients focused it wasn't very much uh sourcing focused it wasn't very much uh sourcing focused it wasn't very much uh sourcing focused he came from the River Cafe in focused he came from the River Cafe in focused he came from the River Cafe in London which was one of the N the ogs of London which was one of the N the ogs of London which was one of the N the ogs of the farm to table and uh still going the farm to table and uh still going the farm to table and uh still going strong today and he he taught me the the strong today and he he taught me the the strong today and he he taught me the the value of getting to know farmers and value of getting to know farmers and value of getting to know farmers and getting to know vegetables from that getting to know vegetables from that getting to know vegetables from that farm versus vegetables from that farm farm versus vegetables from that farm farm versus vegetables from that farm and they're actually different soil's a and they're actually different soil's a and they're actually different soil's a little different way the way they grow little different way the way they grow little different way the way they grow it a little different it's the opposite it a little different it's the opposite it a little different it's the opposite of the industrial machine where of the industrial machine where of the industrial machine where everything needs to look exactly the everything needs to look exactly the everything needs to look exactly the same and um sometimes you'll get carrots same and um sometimes you'll get carrots same and um sometimes you'll get carrots that are kind of ugly and deformed but that are kind of ugly and deformed but that are kind of ugly and deformed but there's much sweeter than the carrots there's much sweeter than the carrots there's much sweeter than the carrots you'd get for other purposes so you'd you'd get for other purposes so you'd you'd get for other purposes so you'd make a carrot puree out of that and then make a carrot puree out of that and then make a carrot puree out of that and then you take carrots that are that are more you take carrots that are that are more you take carrots that are that are more typical in shape and size you might typical in shape and size you might typical in shape and size you might roast roast them for uh for dinner so roast roast them for uh for dinner so roast roast them for uh for dinner so the the it's the appreciation for uh the the it's the appreciation for uh the the it's the appreciation for uh vegetables in general um I I probably vegetables in general um I I probably vegetables in general um I I probably would say carrots is my favorite just would say carrots is my favorite just would say carrots is my favorite just because I've us that was an example of because I've us that was an example of because I've us that was an example of one where i' I've really had to learn one where i' I've really had to learn one where i' I've really had to learn how to use the the the the different how to use the the the the different how to use the the the the different types of carrots that come from around types of carrots that come from around types of carrots that come from around from all of our farms and um it's fun from all of our farms and um it's fun from all of our farms and um it's fun you know it's a fun ingredient if you

you know it's a fun ingredient if you you know it's a fun ingredient if you just went to Whole Foods or just went to just went to Whole Foods or just went to just went to Whole Foods or just went to a grocery store and you just got exactly a grocery store and you just got exactly a grocery store and you just got exactly the same carrot every time less fun but the same carrot every time less fun but the same carrot every time less fun but go to a pharmers market and see what you go to a pharmers market and see what you go to a pharmers market and see what you get and you'll you'll see they're quite get and you'll you'll see they're quite get and you'll you'll see they're quite different yeah carrot for me is probably different yeah carrot for me is probably different yeah carrot for me is probably number one I have uh rigorous detailed number one I have uh rigorous detailed number one I have uh rigorous detailed rankings for fruit and veggies aming rankings for fruit and veggies aming rankings for fruit and veggies aming we'll get into I'm just well I am the we'll get into I'm just well I am the we'll get into I'm just well I am the kind of person that would have like a kind of person that would have like a kind of person that would have like a spreadsheet for spreadsheet for spreadsheet for that great but I'm mostly just making that great but I'm mostly just making that great but I'm mostly just making fun of myself but I do love carrots uh I fun of myself but I do love carrots uh I fun of myself but I do love carrots uh I wish they wish they wish they weren't so full of carbs but yeah I'm weren't so full of carbs but yeah I'm weren't so full of carbs but yeah I'm not I'm just not anti carbs you know I not I'm just not anti carbs you know I not I'm just not anti carbs you know I think the anti carb yeah yeah I think think the anti carb yeah yeah I think think the anti carb yeah yeah I think think they played a role you know like I think they played a role you know like I think they played a role you know like I um have a great friend who's an amazing um have a great friend who's an amazing um have a great friend who's an amazing doctor and um he did some tests for me doctor and um he did some tests for me doctor and um he did some tests for me and everything and and turns out I have and everything and and turns out I have and everything and and turns out I have a gluten allergy and I was like okay uh a gluten allergy and I was like okay uh a gluten allergy and I was like okay uh so what that means is I shouldn't eat so what that means is I shouldn't eat so what that means is I shouldn't eat gluten it's like yeah it's like okay but gluten it's like yeah it's like okay but gluten it's like yeah it's like okay but I also have hay fever and that that I also have hay fever and that that I also have hay fever and that that means I should not go out into nature MH means I should not go out into nature MH means I should not go out into nature MH so I was like N I think I'm going to go so I was like N I think I'm going to go so I was like N I think I'm going to go out into nature and maybe what I'll on out into nature and maybe what I'll on out into nature and maybe what I'll on bread and pasta or like the true carbs bread and pasta or like the true carbs bread and pasta or like the true carbs I'll I'll just have it when it's really I'll I'll just have it when it's really I'll I'll just have it when it's really good mhm because when it's really good good mhm because when it's really good good mhm because when it's really good it's really good and you don't want to it's really good and you don't want to it's really good and you don't want to miss that most of the time okay find miss that most of the time okay find miss that most of the time okay find some crummy bread whatever like I can some crummy bread whatever like I can some crummy bread whatever like I can skip that part but I find all of these skip that part but I find all of these skip that part but I find all of these diets are like no none of this or super diets are like no none of this or super diets are like no none of this or super this super that I I I wonder if they're

this super that I I I wonder if they're this super that I I I wonder if they're just like um like a people are just just like um like a people are just just like um like a people are just looking for something to hang on to but looking for something to hang on to but looking for something to hang on to but these diets have been around forever and these diets have been around forever and these diets have been around forever and if they work then we would know that if they work then we would know that if they work then we would know that yeah I think one of the biggest problems yeah I think one of the biggest problems yeah I think one of the biggest problems with with with diets is it adds stress when you do have diets is it adds stress when you do have diets is it adds stress when you do have that perfect bowl of pasta if you're if that perfect bowl of pasta if you're if that perfect bowl of pasta if you're if you have categorized yourself as a low you have categorized yourself as a low you have categorized yourself as a low carb eating person you might be very carb eating person you might be very carb eating person you might be very stressed about enjoying this thing when stressed about enjoying this thing when stressed about enjoying this thing when you should just let go let go this is you should just let go let go this is you should just let go let go this is your cheat day or whatever yeah yeah and your cheat day or whatever yeah yeah and your cheat day or whatever yeah yeah and I've heard that and actually I I I I I've heard that and actually I I I I I've heard that and actually I I I I have friends who do that their cheat day have friends who do that their cheat day have friends who do that their cheat day and I say to them I'm only going to hang and I say to them I'm only going to hang and I say to them I'm only going to hang out with you on your cheat day because out with you on your cheat day because out with you on your cheat day because that's when you're actually yeah I I mean I I would say like for me yeah I I mean I I would say like for me there's things that make me feel really there's things that make me feel really there's things that make me feel really good but they're not rules they're not good but they're not rules they're not good but they're not rules they're not uh they're they're like go-to uh they're they're like go-to uh they're they're like go-to favorites speak like in terms of diet favorites speak like in terms of diet favorites speak like in terms of diet and so on for example I've mostly been and so on for example I've mostly been and so on for example I've mostly been eating once a day oh wow for for the eating once a day oh wow for for the eating once a day oh wow for for the longest time but that's not a rule okay longest time but that's not a rule okay longest time but that's not a rule okay like it's it's completely flexible and I like it's it's completely flexible and I like it's it's completely flexible and I most have been eating very low carb okay most have been eating very low carb okay most have been eating very low carb okay but you must be eating a lot of food in but you must be eating a lot of food in but you must be eating a lot of food in that one meal yeah it's not you know that one meal yeah it's not you know that one meal yeah it's not you know because it's usually a very sort of meat because it's usually a very sort of meat because it's usually a very sort of meat heavy it's not like portions are not heavy it's not like portions are not heavy it's not like portions are not that big so your body needs food yeah that big so your body needs food yeah that big so your body needs food yeah but I need so you're talking about like but I need so you're talking about like but I need so you're talking about like 2,000 calories what you find out is like 2,000 calories what you find out is like 2,000 calories what you find out is like that dinner is like the most social time that dinner is like the most social time that dinner is like the most social time of the day yeah I mean I have kids in of the day yeah I mean I have kids in of the day yeah I mean I have kids in the morning so if you have kids it's for the morning so if you have kids it's for the morning so if you have kids it's for sure a morning experience but if you sure a morning experience but if you sure a morning experience but if you don't then you're right yeah but like

don't then you're right yeah but like don't then you're right yeah but like you said I I deviate you know I'm more you said I I deviate you know I'm more you said I I deviate you know I'm more afraid of missing the per afraid of missing the per afraid of missing the per the perfect dessert the perfect the perfect dessert the perfect the perfect dessert the perfect breakfast the perfect uh bowl of pasta breakfast the perfect uh bowl of pasta breakfast the perfect uh bowl of pasta pizza all that kind of stuff and then I pizza all that kind of stuff and then I pizza all that kind of stuff and then I don't think if it as a cheat day I think don't think if it as a cheat day I think don't think if it as a cheat day I think it's um well if you're only eating one it's um well if you're only eating one it's um well if you're only eating one meal a day you can eat whatever you like meal a day you can eat whatever you like meal a day you can eat whatever you like well well like I I want to make clear well well like I I want to make clear well well like I I want to make clear that it's not one meal a day always and that it's not one meal a day always and that it's not one meal a day always and I'm like this very strict I'm like this very strict I'm like this very strict thing uh it's you always have to be open thing uh it's you always have to be open thing uh it's you always have to be open to the experience to the new experience to the experience to the new experience to the experience to the new experience uh otherwise you do miss out just like uh otherwise you do miss out just like uh otherwise you do miss out just like you said hey fever like I think if you you said hey fever like I think if you you said hey fever like I think if you want to be really safe you should never want to be really safe you should never want to be really safe you should never leave your home yes just w we learned leave your home yes just w we learned leave your home yes just w we learned during Co if you wrap yourself in Cotton during Co if you wrap yourself in Cotton during Co if you wrap yourself in Cotton wool in your basement yes you're you're wool in your basement yes you're you're wool in your basement yes you're you're not going to die from covid you might not going to die from covid you might not going to die from covid you might die from a lot of other things of just die from a lot of other things of just die from a lot of other things of just pure misery yeah well you might live pure misery yeah well you might live pure misery yeah well you might live forever we don't know but it certainly forever we don't know but it certainly forever we don't know but it certainly doesn't maximize the joy of whatever doesn't maximize the joy of whatever doesn't maximize the joy of whatever whatever makes life worth living it whatever makes life worth living it whatever makes life worth living it doesn't maximize that yeah exactly you doesn't maximize that yeah exactly you doesn't maximize that yeah exactly you wrote In the book that Anthony Bordain wrote In the book that Anthony Bordain wrote In the book that Anthony Bordain was one of your Heroes M uh can you was one of your Heroes M uh can you was one of your Heroes M uh can you speak to what inspired you uh about him speak to what inspired you uh about him speak to what inspired you uh about him yeah he wrote a book called Kitchen yeah he wrote a book called Kitchen yeah he wrote a book called Kitchen Confidential in the '90s I was in Confidential in the '90s I was in Confidential in the '90s I was in cooking school at the time it was cooking school at the time it was cooking school at the time it was so he romanticized the kit cooking in so he romanticized the kit cooking in so he romanticized the kit cooking in the restaurant so well his writing is the restaurant so well his writing is the restaurant so well his writing is great he kind of got me into like oh

great he kind of got me into like oh great he kind of got me into like oh that's cool I I want to do that that was that's cool I I want to do that that was that's cool I I want to do that that was it was it was it was cool uh so I you it was it was it was cool uh so I you it was it was it was cool uh so I you know got into cooking school got more know got into cooking school got more know got into cooking school got more engaged in it and I and I was like this engaged in it and I and I was like this engaged in it and I and I was like this had this fomo feeling of I wanted to had this fomo feeling of I wanted to had this fomo feeling of I wanted to experience what it's like to be in in experience what it's like to be in in experience what it's like to be in in the back when you cooking school you are the back when you cooking school you are the back when you cooking school you are you are in the back had a restaurant we you are in the back had a restaurant we you are in the back had a restaurant we would serve people but it's not the same would serve people but it's not the same would serve people but it's not the same thing as actually being in a like a real thing as actually being in a like a real thing as actually being in a like a real restaurant it's like you're in a restaurant it's like you're in a restaurant it's like you're in a submarine with with you know your your submarine with with you know your your submarine with with you know your your teammates and you got to win tonight teammates and you got to win tonight teammates and you got to win tonight like it's a real it's a real energy and like it's a real it's a real energy and like it's a real it's a real energy and so that that was a big inspiration I so that that was a big inspiration I so that that was a big inspiration I followed him over there so sad that he followed him over there so sad that he followed him over there so sad that he he he chose to in his life but I also he he chose to in his life but I also he he chose to in his life but I also had met with him a few times not not had met with him a few times not not had met with him a few times not not like one-on-one over dinner or anything like one-on-one over dinner or anything like one-on-one over dinner or anything but just like met with him and and um I but just like met with him and and um I but just like met with him and and um I just felt his love for for food and just felt his love for for food and just felt his love for for food and truly just love for food he gave the truly just love for food he gave the truly just love for food he gave the advice of Don't Be Afraid get excited advice of Don't Be Afraid get excited advice of Don't Be Afraid get excited and cook with love yeah I've used that and cook with love yeah I've used that and cook with love yeah I've used that phrase especially the cook with love one phrase especially the cook with love one phrase especially the cook with love one I mean when you know one of the things I mean when you know one of the things I mean when you know one of the things about which we talked about this earlier about which we talked about this earlier about which we talked about this earlier where you get quick tangible feedback where you get quick tangible feedback where you get quick tangible feedback from a customer when you're in the from a customer when you're in the from a customer when you're in the restaurant um I know when I didn't put restaurant um I know when I didn't put restaurant um I know when I didn't put love into that love into that love into that dish I know when one of my line Cooks dish I know when one of my line Cooks dish I know when one of my line Cooks did not put love into that part of the did not put love into that part of the did not put love into that part of the dish I know when that expert person did dish I know when that expert person did dish I know when that expert person did not put love into look you know double not put love into look you know double not put love into look you know double checking the dish before putting it on checking the dish before putting it on checking the dish before putting it on the table I I you just know and and cook the table I I you just know and and cook the table I I you just know and and cook with love is uh when you do it for your with love is uh when you do it for your with love is uh when you do it for your family oh actually especially when you

family oh actually especially when you family oh actually especially when you do it with for your family the food do it with for your family the food do it with for your family the food isn't doesn't have to be perfect but isn't doesn't have to be perfect but isn't doesn't have to be perfect but you're cooking with love that's why you you're cooking with love that's why you you're cooking with love that's why you love scrambled eggs I do that it's love scrambled eggs I do that it's love scrambled eggs I do that it's that's in the book Kimble scrambled eggs that's in the book Kimble scrambled eggs that's in the book Kimble scrambled eggs yes you promised to make me scramble yes you promised to make me scramble yes you promised to make me scramble legs I'm going to hold you to it that's legs I'm going to hold you to it that's legs I'm going to hold you to it that's great uh a cooking school you mentioned great uh a cooking school you mentioned great uh a cooking school you mentioned the French Culinary Institute I heard it the French Culinary Institute I heard it the French Culinary Institute I heard it was a a bit of a rough experience in was a a bit of a rough experience in was a a bit of a rough experience in parts are would call it it's it's not a parts are would call it it's it's not a parts are would call it it's it's not a rough experience in that in a beautiful rough experience in that in a beautiful rough experience in that in a beautiful way yeah yeah it's exactly it's not like way yeah yeah it's exactly it's not like way yeah yeah it's exactly it's not like I'm a victim of it it's it's uh it's I'm a victim of it it's it's uh it's I'm a victim of it it's it's uh it's rough in that they intentionally make it rough in that they intentionally make it rough in that they intentionally make it rough so the the school costs the same rough so the the school costs the same rough so the the school costs the same price as Harvard to go price as Harvard to go price as Harvard to go to you show up you have to it's an to you show up you have to it's an to you show up you have to it's an 18-month program you are allowed to drop 18-month program you are allowed to drop 18-month program you are allowed to drop out at any time you don't get your money out at any time you don't get your money out at any time you don't get your money back 25 people back 25 people back 25 people started six people started six people started six people graduated and the people who graduated I graduated and the people who graduated I graduated and the people who graduated I graduated but man it was there were graduated but man it was there were graduated but man it was there were times where I'm like I I can't handle times where I'm like I I can't handle times where I'm like I I can't handle this I mean I would literally say to to this I mean I would literally say to to this I mean I would literally say to to to my friends oh I got to go to cooking to my friends oh I got to go to cooking to my friends oh I got to go to cooking school I'm going to go get screamed at school I'm going to go get screamed at school I'm going to go get screamed at for the next six or seven hours yeah and for the next six or seven hours yeah and for the next six or seven hours yeah and I had this little French chef who was my I had this little French chef who was my I had this little French chef who was my uh Nemesis does he still live in your uh Nemesis does he still live in your uh Nemesis does he still live in your head somewhere he still lives in my head head somewhere he still lives in my head head somewhere he still lives in my head exactly heally does he's like 5'2 or exactly heally does he's like 5'2 or exactly heally does he's like 5'2 or something and uh and I remember him something and uh and I remember him something and uh and I remember him screaming so much at me that this he's screaming so much at me that this he's screaming so much at me that this he's like the short guy I'm 6'5 the spittle like the short guy I'm 6'5 the spittle like the short guy I'm 6'5 the spittle would land on my face nice and I would

would land on my face nice and I would would land on my face nice and I would just have to sit there I stand there and just have to sit there I stand there and just have to sit there I stand there and take it it was a very humbling take it it was a very humbling take it it was a very humbling experience I did learn though that it experience I did learn though that it experience I did learn though that it it's it's intentionally rough so I took it's it's intentionally rough so I took it's it's intentionally rough so I took a little bit of the um edge off it one a little bit of the um edge off it one a little bit of the um edge off it one day when that same Chef had come over to day when that same Chef had come over to day when that same Chef had come over to me and said move over a little bit and I me and said move over a little bit and I me and said move over a little bit and I moved over and he took my carrots moved over and he took my carrots moved over and he took my carrots whatever and started just chopping whatever and started just chopping whatever and started just chopping everything and like perfectly and then everything and like perfectly and then everything and like perfectly and then he said okay now you just can come back he said okay now you just can come back he said okay now you just can come back and then he went over to someone else it and then he went over to someone else it and then he went over to someone else it started screaming at them saying that started screaming at them saying that started screaming at them saying that look even Kimble can do this and you look even Kimble can do this and you look even Kimble can do this and you can't do this and I was like this whole can't do this and I was like this whole can't do this and I was like this whole thing's like a psych psycho game so it thing's like a psych psycho game so it thing's like a psych psycho game so it did take the edge off when I realized did take the edge off when I realized did take the edge off when I realized there was like the guy the guy was there was like the guy the guy was there was like the guy the guy was intentionally trying to break you down intentionally trying to break you down intentionally trying to break you down and they do this apparently in the Army and they do this apparently in the Army and they do this apparently in the Army I've not been to the Army but they they I've not been to the Army but they they I've not been to the Army but they they they need you to they need to break you they need you to they need to break you they need you to they need to break you down everything you know is worthless so down everything you know is worthless so down everything you know is worthless so that then we can teach you and you can that then we can teach you and you can that then we can teach you and you can come out of it with at what with what come out of it with at what with what come out of it with at what with what actually we want you to know Are there actually we want you to know Are there actually we want you to know Are there specific technical lessons you remember specific technical lessons you remember specific technical lessons you remember you learned from that sort of how to cut you learned from that sort of how to cut you learned from that sort of how to cut carrots carrots carrots or how to approach food how to prepare or how to approach food how to prepare or how to approach food how to prepare food how to think about food how to food how to think about food how to food how to think about food how to carry yourself in the kitchen you know carry yourself in the kitchen you know carry yourself in the kitchen you know all of those things um I think that the all of those things um I think that the all of those things um I think that the one of the most beautiful lessons was one of the most beautiful lessons was one of the most beautiful lessons was actually scrambled eggs um so the actually scrambled eggs um so the actually scrambled eggs um so the there's different layers of shfs so they

there's different layers of shfs so they there's different layers of shfs so they all master shfs they're all very all master shfs they're all very all master shfs they're all very well-known people and everything but but well-known people and everything but but well-known people and everything but but Alan sua was one of the chief like main Alan sua was one of the chief like main Alan sua was one of the chief like main main guys and he just passed away Master main guys and he just passed away Master main guys and he just passed away Master Chef and uh everything kind of stopped Chef and uh everything kind of stopped Chef and uh everything kind of stopped when he would show up in the kitchen and when he would show up in the kitchen and when he would show up in the kitchen and he would teach very few things and all he would teach very few things and all he would teach very few things and all of the other chefs who would you know of the other chefs who would you know of the other chefs who would you know the same ones that were screaming at us the same ones that were screaming at us the same ones that were screaming at us just like it was like the Red Sea just like it was like the Red Sea just like it was like the Red Sea partying like they have total respect partying like they have total respect partying like they have total respect for this human and he can do whatever he for this human and he can do whatever he for this human and he can do whatever he wants and the one of the things he wants and the one of the things he wants and the one of the things he wanted wanted to teach was how do you wanted wanted to teach was how do you wanted wanted to teach was how do you make an omelette a French omelette and make an omelette a French omelette and make an omelette a French omelette and it's really fundamentally the same thing it's really fundamentally the same thing it's really fundamentally the same thing it's a soft scrambled egg that you that it's a soft scrambled egg that you that it's a soft scrambled egg that you that you fold and uh the love that he put you fold and uh the love that he put you fold and uh the love that he put into the time with us and of course he's into the time with us and of course he's into the time with us and of course he's a legend there were moments like that a legend there were moments like that a legend there were moments like that where I'm like wow okay he he also he where I'm like wow okay he he also he where I'm like wow okay he he also he also just like the other she didn't have also just like the other she didn't have also just like the other she didn't have any concern berating anyone so he any concern berating anyone so he any concern berating anyone so he berated our Master Chefs nice saying I berated our Master Chefs nice saying I berated our Master Chefs nice saying I don't trust these people to teach you don't trust these people to teach you don't trust these people to teach you how to make scrambled EGS so I'm going how to make scrambled EGS so I'm going how to make scrambled EGS so I'm going to do it instead what I mean can you speak to instead what I mean can you speak to that cuz you know a lot of people that cuz you know a lot of people that cuz you know a lot of people hearing this would be like scrambled hearing this would be like scrambled hearing this would be like scrambled eggs like why do you need to be a Master eggs like why do you need to be a Master eggs like why do you need to be a Master Chef to to really make SCS it's a it's a Chef to to really make SCS it's a it's a Chef to to really make SCS it's a it's a well first of all um for me and and it's well first of all um for me and and it's well first of all um for me and and it's it's a it's a learning Journey it's a it's a learning Journey it's a it's a learning Journey forever so so I make I make scramble forever so so I make I make scramble forever so so I make I make scramble legs I mean almost made it 10 10,000 legs I mean almost made it 10 10,000 legs I mean almost made it 10 10,000 times or more whatever so it's like jro times or more whatever so it's like jro times or more whatever so it's like jro Dreams of Sushi Kimble dreams of

Dreams of Sushi Kimble dreams of Dreams of Sushi Kimble dreams of scrambled egg pretty much okay so I will scrambled egg pretty much okay so I will scrambled egg pretty much okay so I will um I will wake up and uh be held um I will wake up and uh be held um I will wake up and uh be held accountable my by my kids to make accountable my by my kids to make accountable my by my kids to make scramble this happens every morning and scramble this happens every morning and scramble this happens every morning and um it's I I know all the steps muscle um it's I I know all the steps muscle um it's I I know all the steps muscle memory level kind of steps how much memory level kind of steps how much memory level kind of steps how much while I know it and then I'll cook it while I know it and then I'll cook it while I know it and then I'll cook it and it's very meditative for me because and it's very meditative for me because and it's very meditative for me because you have to focus so most scrambled eggs you have to focus so most scrambled eggs you have to focus so most scrambled eggs soft scrambled eggs recipes are 10 15 soft scrambled eggs recipes are 10 15 soft scrambled eggs recipes are 10 15 minutes uh to get them to that that minutes uh to get them to that that minutes uh to get them to that that perfect softness and the the the recipe perfect softness and the the the recipe perfect softness and the the the recipe that I got from uh chef chef Alan was um that I got from uh chef chef Alan was um that I got from uh chef chef Alan was um was something that you do in 90 seconds was something that you do in 90 seconds was something that you do in 90 seconds MH but it requires Total Focus like if MH but it requires Total Focus like if MH but it requires Total Focus like if you like look up for a second you're you like look up for a second you're you like look up for a second you're going to miss you're going to miss the going to miss you're going to miss the going to miss you're going to miss the the the perfect moment where you have to the the perfect moment where you have to the the perfect moment where you have to stop and get those eggs out of the pan stop and get those eggs out of the pan stop and get those eggs out of the pan because once the pan eggs will keep because once the pan eggs will keep because once the pan eggs will keep cooking and so it's this meditation and cooking and so it's this meditation and cooking and so it's this meditation and it's sometimes you hit it like perfectly it's sometimes you hit it like perfectly it's sometimes you hit it like perfectly but most but most but most times could have been a little softer times could have been a little softer times could have been a little softer could have been a little firmer could could have been a little firmer could could have been a little firmer could have been a little bit more salt could have been a little bit more salt could have been a little bit more salt could have been a little more pepper um uh and have been a little more pepper um uh and have been a little more pepper um uh and so so what's really fun about the so so what's really fun about the so so what's really fun about the morning is my kids are kind of into it morning is my kids are kind of into it morning is my kids are kind of into it so they're sort of like we we critique so they're sort of like we we critique so they're sort of like we we critique the eggs yeah every morning do they have the eggs yeah every morning do they have the eggs yeah every morning do they have a rating system we're back to the spr a rating system we're back to the spr a rating system we're back to the spr it's more of a it's more like and again it's more of a it's more like and again it's more of a it's more like and again it also come back to how people feel it also come back to how people feel it also come back to how people feel right so like can be in a bad mood and

right so like can be in a bad mood and right so like can be in a bad mood and they can be grumpy like a Michelin star they can be grumpy like a Michelin star they can be grumpy like a Michelin star system like what no no there not it's system like what no no there not it's system like what no no there not it's more like oh yeah I uh I like my a more like oh yeah I uh I like my a more like oh yeah I uh I like my a little more gooier or or yesterday it little more gooier or or yesterday it little more gooier or or yesterday it was this way a little bit more salt a was this way a little bit more salt a was this way a little bit more salt a little less less salt um salt is usually little less less salt um salt is usually little less less salt um salt is usually the one that is because um uh not all the one that is because um uh not all the one that is because um uh not all salts are are equal so if you are used salts are are equal so if you are used salts are are equal so if you are used to working with a certain kind of salt to working with a certain kind of salt to working with a certain kind of salt and then you're you just are forced for and then you're you just are forced for and then you're you just are forced for some ran out of salt to use some use some ran out of salt to use some use some ran out of salt to use some use some other salt you you actually don't some other salt you you actually don't some other salt you you actually don't know how to use it you really you need know how to use it you really you need know how to use it you really you need really want to have the same salt all really want to have the same salt all really want to have the same salt all the time yeah you have a page on salt in the time yeah you have a page on salt in the time yeah you have a page on salt in the book which is fascinating salt is the book which is fascinating salt is the book which is fascinating salt is you got to get to know your salt you got you got to get to know your salt you got you got to get to know your salt you got to you got to love your salt and you got to you got to love your salt and you got to you got to love your salt and you got to use it over and over and over again to use it over and over and over again to use it over and over and over again yeah and it will teach you uh how to use yeah and it will teach you uh how to use yeah and it will teach you uh how to use that salt by you know your pallette will that salt by you know your pallette will that salt by you know your pallette will tell you how salty you like things but tell you how salty you like things but tell you how salty you like things but if you change it up and you mix up a if you change it up and you mix up a if you change it up and you mix up a whole bunch of salt you've now whole bunch of salt you've now whole bunch of salt you've now multiplied your learning path so for me multiplied your learning path so for me multiplied your learning path so for me I my favorite salt is is uh kosal salt I my favorite salt is is uh kosal salt I my favorite salt is is uh kosal salt and I like to use that all the time and and I like to use that all the time and and I like to use that all the time and if uh if I ever change it I might if uh if I ever change it I might if uh if I ever change it I might sprinkle a little bit of molden salt a sprinkle a little bit of molden salt a sprinkle a little bit of molden salt a crunchy uh sort of a flaky salt but it's crunchy uh sort of a flaky salt but it's crunchy uh sort of a flaky salt but it's more for for that at when you're more for for that at when you're more for for that at when you're actually eating texture yeah it gives actually eating texture yeah it gives actually eating texture yeah it gives you texture as well as salt exactly you you texture as well as salt exactly you you texture as well as salt exactly you wouldn't use it on scrambled eggs but wouldn't use it on scrambled eggs but wouldn't use it on scrambled eggs but the but if you switch out your salts the but if you switch out your salts the but if you switch out your salts it's a different it's a different it's a different weapon need to learn it you I like I weapon need to learn it you I like I weapon need to learn it you I like I like how you know usually there's wine like how you know usually there's wine like how you know usually there's wine connoisseurs you're saying you going

connoisseurs you're saying you going connoisseurs you're saying you going back to sort of farm to table when back to sort of farm to table when back to sort of farm to table when you're talking about carrots in that you're talking about carrots in that you're talking about carrots in that same rigor and Nuance you have to same rigor and Nuance you have to same rigor and Nuance you have to consider the different Farms involved consider the different Farms involved consider the different Farms involved for the carrots in that same way you for the carrots in that same way you for the carrots in that same way you have to consider the different salts have to consider the different salts have to consider the different salts yeah with like and also not even all yeah with like and also not even all yeah with like and also not even all kosha salts are the same it's the kosha salts are the same it's the kosha salts are the same it's the particular salt that you like get to particular salt that you like get to particular salt that you like get to know it be get in a relationship with it know it be get in a relationship with it know it be get in a relationship with it it's like great people learn so much how it's like great people learn so much how it's like great people learn so much how they in terms of the uh the measurement they in terms of the uh the measurement they in terms of the uh the measurement the proportion the the amount you put of the proportion the the amount you put of the proportion the the amount you put of salt you put in are you doing that like salt you put in are you doing that like salt you put in are you doing that like exactly or are you doing it by feel so exactly or are you doing it by feel so exactly or are you doing it by feel so it's by feel and that's where you get it's by feel and that's where you get it's by feel and that's where you get the relationship so in fact I have a in the relationship so in fact I have a in the relationship so in fact I have a in the the book in The cookbook I have QR the the book in The cookbook I have QR the the book in The cookbook I have QR codes that people can scan because uh codes that people can scan because uh codes that people can scan because uh what I struggle with recipes is they what I struggle with recipes is they what I struggle with recipes is they don't they don't teach technique right don't they don't teach technique right don't they don't teach technique right they can they can describe the technique they can they can describe the technique they can they can describe the technique but they don't teach the technique it's but they don't teach the technique it's but they don't teach the technique it's it's a technique it's not a recipe and it's a technique it's not a recipe and it's a technique it's not a recipe and so one of the one of the lessons is how so one of the one of the lessons is how so one of the one of the lessons is how do you salt a steak mhm and the answer do you salt a steak mhm and the answer do you salt a steak mhm and the answer is not here's a teaspoon and you do it is not here's a teaspoon and you do it is not here's a teaspoon and you do it this way the answer is use kosher salt this way the answer is use kosher salt this way the answer is use kosher salt so you can see with your eyes CU they're so you can see with your eyes CU they're so you can see with your eyes CU they're little flakes how much salt is on your little flakes how much salt is on your little flakes how much salt is on your steak and then taste cook it and then steak and then taste cook it and then steak and then taste cook it and then taste it and know you think you need taste it and know you think you need taste it and know you think you need more or you need it less okay now next more or you need it less okay now next more or you need it less okay now next time put a little more on because you time put a little more on because you time put a little more on because you can see it and it's about learning the can see it and it's about learning the can see it and it's about learning the the the fact that you you want to be the the fact that you you want to be the the fact that you you want to be able to see how much salt is on the able to see how much salt is on the able to see how much salt is on the steak so that you can then train

steak so that you can then train steak so that you can then train yourself for the future of how much salt yourself for the future of how much salt yourself for the future of how much salt you want to your steak Yeah but then the you want to your steak Yeah but then the you want to your steak Yeah but then the steak and the salt kind of dance steak and the salt kind of dance steak and the salt kind of dance together it depends on where the steak together it depends on where the steak together it depends on where the steak came from true that's true all the came from true that's true all the came from true that's true all the thickness of the steak that'll make a thickness of the steak that'll make a thickness of the steak that'll make a difference but for the most part if you difference but for the most part if you difference but for the most part if you learn if if you're able to see it versus learn if if you're able to see it versus learn if if you're able to see it versus table salt for example just just just table salt for example just just just table salt for example just just just disappears you just can't see what disappears you just can't see what disappears you just can't see what you're putting on your steak you can't you're putting on your steak you can't you're putting on your steak you can't really learn as a result I think you really learn as a result I think you really learn as a result I think you talk about roast chickens where your talk about roast chickens where your talk about roast chickens where your love of food be uh began what about love of food be uh began what about love of food be uh began what about steak what's love a good steak so so steak what's love a good steak so so steak what's love a good steak so so great so in in the in the scho in the great so in in the in the scho in the great so in in the in the scho in the French school you add sauces and all French school you add sauces and all French school you add sauces and all this kind of stuff and in Boulders when this kind of stuff and in Boulders when this kind of stuff and in Boulders when you realize like there's a beauty to the you realize like there's a beauty to the you realize like there's a beauty to the to the basic ingredient yeah like a good to the basic ingredient yeah like a good to the basic ingredient yeah like a good um uh New York strip from a good Rancher um uh New York strip from a good Rancher um uh New York strip from a good Rancher that that U you know the the there's a that that U you know the the there's a that that U you know the the there's a lot of lot of lot of uh discussion controversy on how how uh discussion controversy on how how uh discussion controversy on how how cattle should be raised and we have a we cattle should be raised and we have a we cattle should be raised and we have a we have a very uh different approach which have a very uh different approach which have a very uh different approach which is we know how our Kettle are raised we is we know how our Kettle are raised we is we know how our Kettle are raised we go to the farm we get to know the the go to the farm we get to know the the go to the farm we get to know the the Rancher we and um sometimes you do want Rancher we and um sometimes you do want Rancher we and um sometimes you do want to have them be finished on like they'll to have them be finished on like they'll to have them be finished on like they'll be grass-fed for the most part but then be grass-fed for the most part but then be grass-fed for the most part but then then there's some sort of cool recipe of then there's some sort of cool recipe of then there's some sort of cool recipe of food you're giving them that will then food you're giving them that will then food you're giving them that will then make them taste better um and sometimes make them taste better um and sometimes make them taste better um and sometimes it it is actually pretty good to have it it is actually pretty good to have it it is actually pretty good to have 100% grass-fed I've had some amazing uh 100% grass-fed I've had some amazing uh 100% grass-fed I've had some amazing uh ranches that that show me that the ranches that that show me that the ranches that that show me that the flavor is all there for the average flavor is all there for the average flavor is all there for the average person that you know might go to Whole person that you know might go to Whole person that you know might go to Whole fuse or grocery store I think the

fuse or grocery store I think the fuse or grocery store I think the Simplicity of a of of a good Simplicity of a of of a good Simplicity of a of of a good steak it's it it is important to get steak it's it it is important to get steak it's it it is important to get good sourcing but also it's just it's good sourcing but also it's just it's good sourcing but also it's just it's just it's just good what's your favorite just it's just good what's your favorite just it's just good what's your favorite cut of meat it's New York strip probably cut of meat it's New York strip probably cut of meat it's New York strip probably New York strip for me yeah newor strip New York strip for me yeah newor strip New York strip for me yeah newor strip yeah I like the fact that it's lean but yeah I like the fact that it's lean but yeah I like the fact that it's lean but if you want the fat you can dive into if you want the fat you can dive into if you want the fat you can dive into that little strip of fat or you can that little strip of fat or you can that little strip of fat or you can leave it alone because you you don't leave it alone because you you don't leave it alone because you you don't want it that night um and it's a uh it's want it that night um and it's a uh it's want it that night um and it's a uh it's also a great stake for or uh adding also a great stake for or uh adding also a great stake for or uh adding something like if you want to you could something like if you want to you could something like if you want to you could either do a a pepper sauce or you could either do a a pepper sauce or you could either do a a pepper sauce or you could do a lot of ground pepper which gives it do a lot of ground pepper which gives it do a lot of ground pepper which gives it a peppery kind it's not not sauce but a peppery kind it's not not sauce but a peppery kind it's not not sauce but it's a peppery steak it's a really good it's a peppery steak it's a really good it's a peppery steak it's a really good steak for like a a canvas for for other steak for like a a canvas for for other steak for like a a canvas for for other things but the basic ingredients you're things but the basic ingredients you're things but the basic ingredients you're playing with is salt and pepper and playing with is salt and pepper and playing with is salt and pepper and just actually I will say there's another just actually I will say there's another just actually I will say there's another one uh one uh one uh garlic when you when you can one of this garlic when you when you can one of this garlic when you when you can one of this is my favorite recipe for for a steak is is my favorite recipe for for a steak is is my favorite recipe for for a steak is you you season it both Sid salt and you you season it both Sid salt and you you season it both Sid salt and pepper you sauté it um in in a little pepper you sauté it um in in a little pepper you sauté it um in in a little olive oil barely barely anything and um olive oil barely barely anything and um olive oil barely barely anything and um you're getting a nice crisp like a you're getting a nice crisp like a you're getting a nice crisp like a golden dark golden brown on both both golden dark golden brown on both both golden dark golden brown on both both sides the other the other trick with sides the other the other trick with sides the other the other trick with cooking a steak is don't touch it you cooking a steak is don't touch it you cooking a steak is don't touch it you know just put one side when you're ready know just put one side when you're ready know just put one side when you're ready to turn it turn it around don't touch to turn it turn it around don't touch to turn it turn it around don't touch any other any other time but at the end any other any other time but at the end any other any other time but at the end you take a dab of butter and you crush a you take a dab of butter and you crush a you take a dab of butter and you crush a clove of garlic clove of garlic clove of garlic you don't even chop it you just crush you don't even chop it you just crush you don't even chop it you just crush the glove and you you put the two of the glove and you you put the two of the glove and you you put the two of them in the in the pan and you just roll

them in the in the pan and you just roll them in the in the pan and you just roll the steak around in the garlic the steak around in the garlic the steak around in the garlic butter I think that's the one bold move butter I think that's the one bold move butter I think that's the one bold move Kim bold move what do you uh since Kim bold move what do you uh since Kim bold move what do you uh since you're in Austin quite a bit you're in Austin quite a bit you're in Austin quite a bit opening a restaurant here what do you opening a restaurant here what do you opening a restaurant here what do you think about barbecue it's kind think about barbecue it's kind think about barbecue it's kind of the the Texas way well I would say of the the Texas way well I would say of the the Texas way well I would say there's an Austin way which is an Austin there's an Austin way which is an Austin there's an Austin way which is an Austin which and and actually even Austin would which and and actually even Austin would which and and actually even Austin would say there's a suburb of Austin say there's a suburb of Austin say there's a suburb of Austin way I think that actually the the way I think that actually the the way I think that actually the the adventure of food is wonderful um I adventure of food is wonderful um I adventure of food is wonderful um I would absolutely say that that Austin is would absolutely say that that Austin is would absolutely say that that Austin is is one of the great food uh cities of is one of the great food uh cities of is one of the great food uh cities of America and barbecue is one of is one of America and barbecue is one of is one of America and barbecue is one of is one of its gifts that that it gives the city its gifts that that it gives the city its gifts that that it gives the city but but you go to one and the other and but but you go to one and the other and but but you go to one and the other and you'll have a different approach and you'll have a different approach and you'll have a different approach and that that's the part I love is where that that's the part I love is where that that's the part I love is where there a real celebration of the Artisan there a real celebration of the Artisan there a real celebration of the Artisan so um you might go to one and they have so um you might go to one and they have so um you might go to one and they have a they have a style that they love and a they have a style that they love and a they have a style that they love and they've been doing it for years and then they've been doing it for years and then they've been doing it for years and then you'll go to another and they have a you'll go to another and they have a you'll go to another and they have a style that they love and they've been style that they love and they've been style that they love and they've been doing it for years and it's it's not doing it for years and it's it's not doing it for years and it's it's not they're still barbecue but they're they're still barbecue but they're they're still barbecue but they're actually different and it's really actually different and it's really actually different and it's really beautiful to see that and that's I think beautiful to see that and that's I think beautiful to see that and that's I think that's what that's that's what food that's what that's that's what food that's what that's that's what food culture is like it just builds up over culture is like it just builds up over culture is like it just builds up over time by people who love this style of time by people who love this style of time by people who love this style of cooking well I especially love the cooking well I especially love the cooking well I especially love the communal like how they structure communal like how they structure communal like how they structure restaurants usually or I I don't even restaurants usually or I I don't even restaurants usually or I I don't even want to call it a restaurant cuz it's a want to call it a restaurant cuz it's a want to call it a restaurant cuz it's a it it doesn't feel like a restaurant it it it doesn't feel like a restaurant it it it doesn't feel like a restaurant it feels like a Tavern or some sort like

feels like a Tavern or some sort like feels like a Tavern or some sort like Terry blacks is like that it's like yeah Terry blacks is like that it's like yeah Terry blacks is like that it's like yeah they also have like paper towels get as they also have like paper towels get as they also have like paper towels get as messy as you like and it's a whole roll messy as you like and it's a whole roll messy as you like and it's a whole roll of paper towels they don't just give you of paper towels they don't just give you of paper towels they don't just give you a napkin they know what you're getting a napkin they know what you're getting a napkin they know what you're getting into yeah and it there's just wood into yeah and it there's just wood into yeah and it there's just wood everywhere and it's kind of has this everywhere and it's kind of has this everywhere and it's kind of has this feel like this place has been around feel like this place has been around feel like this place has been around forever it's not changing I know it's forever it's not changing I know it's forever it's not changing I know it's the 21st century with the internet and the 21st century with the internet and the 21st century with the internet and all this kind of nonsense that you all this kind of nonsense that you all this kind of nonsense that you people are building but really this is people are building but really this is people are building but really this is all about same it's been the same for all about same it's been the same for all about same it's been the same for Generations we're doing it the same that Generations we're doing it the same that Generations we're doing it the same that kind of feel if you want to escape the kind of feel if you want to escape the kind of feel if you want to escape the world in that way and then truly connect world in that way and then truly connect world in that way and then truly connect with people one of the other things that with people one of the other things that with people one of the other things that will happen in in a town like Austin is will happen in in a town like Austin is will happen in in a town like Austin is there'll be a barbecue joint that is there'll be a barbecue joint that is there'll be a barbecue joint that is just legendary right and then out of just legendary right and then out of just legendary right and then out of that will come someone who wants to do that will come someone who wants to do that will come someone who wants to do their own barbecue joint and they'll their own barbecue joint and they'll their own barbecue joint and they'll take the learning from that barbecue take the learning from that barbecue take the learning from that barbecue joint they'll open up a new one but it joint they'll open up a new one but it joint they'll open up a new one but it won't be the same as the other barbec won't be the same as the other barbec won't be the same as the other barbec you joined part of it is like dude like you joined part of it is like dude like you joined part of it is like dude like don't just do the same thing do don't just do the same thing do don't just do the same thing do something what what what do you have to something what what what do you have to something what what what do you have to say but also part of it is if you're in say but also part of it is if you're in say but also part of it is if you're in the world of food like as an art form the world of food like as an art form the world of food like as an art form and you want to go open up another and you want to go open up another and you want to go open up another barbecue joint you you you kind of want barbecue joint you you you kind of want barbecue joint you you you kind of want to prove yourself like I deserve to have to prove yourself like I deserve to have to prove yourself like I deserve to have a barbecue joint in this town I know a barbecue joint in this town I know a barbecue joint in this town I know this is one of the Holy grills of this is one of the Holy grills of this is one of the Holy grills of barbecue and and people will follow you barbecue and and people will follow you barbecue and and people will follow you like they're following a musician or like they're following a musician or like they're following a musician or they're following an artist and they are they're following an artist and they are they're following an artist and they are excited to see what your version is M excited to see what your version is M excited to see what your version is M and how well you can pull it off it's and how well you can pull it off it's and how well you can pull it off it's like it's actually that's what I love like it's actually that's what I love like it's actually that's what I love that's what I mean by like a a city with

that's what I mean by like a a city with that's what I mean by like a a city with a food culture that Austin has that a food culture that Austin has that a food culture that Austin has that there's also like a legend to certain there's also like a legend to certain there's also like a legend to certain places certain places are more than just places certain places are more than just places certain places are more than just the food they create it's the food they create it's the food they create it's like that could be a burden they have to like that could be a burden they have to like that could be a burden they have to like live up to the leg legendary nature like live up to the leg legendary nature like live up to the leg legendary nature of the name our restaurant in Boulder of the name our restaurant in Boulder of the name our restaurant in Boulder the kitchen is 20 years old um we're the kitchen is 20 years old um we're the kitchen is 20 years old um we're very well known very well very well known very well very well known very well respected and and we do have to live up respected and and we do have to live up respected and and we do have to live up to the name I think that our our to the name I think that our our to the name I think that our our restaurant lives up to its name in it in restaurant lives up to its name in it in restaurant lives up to its name in it in not just the food it's like you walk in not just the food it's like you walk in not just the food it's like you walk in and you feel the restaurant and that and you feel the restaurant and that and you feel the restaurant and that that is that is that is also uh it's something we we've just also uh it's something we we've just also uh it's something we we've just done naturally um the space is a 120y done naturally um the space is a 120y done naturally um the space is a 120y old building used to be a brothel and old building used to be a brothel and old building used to be a brothel and was bookstore like story history this was bookstore like story history this was bookstore like story history this was a literally this was a um a mining was a literally this was a um a mining was a literally this was a um a mining town right so back in town right so back in town right so back in 1800s this was built late 1800s um uh 1800s this was built late 1800s um uh 1800s this was built late 1800s um uh that sort of Brussels Riv that was a that sort of Brussels Riv that was a that sort of Brussels Riv that was a thing yeah and so there's an actual thing yeah and so there's an actual thing yeah and so there's an actual tunnel under in the basement that goes tunnel under in the basement that goes tunnel under in the basement that goes to the local hotel that uh would be used to the local hotel that uh would be used to the local hotel that uh would be used for going back and forth between the for going back and forth between the for going back and forth between the hotel and and rothel without people hotel and and rothel without people hotel and and rothel without people knowing and the tunnel is now concreted knowing and the tunnel is now concreted knowing and the tunnel is now concreted up but you can go about 20 30t into the up but you can go about 20 30t into the up but you can go about 20 30t into the tunnel but you go into you go into the tunnel but you go into you go into the tunnel but you go into you go into the space and it's actually an old space you space and it's actually an old space you space and it's actually an old space you feel like it's been there forever yeah feel like it's been there forever yeah feel like it's been there forever yeah in 2010 you had a life-threatening in 2010 you had a life-threatening in 2010 you had a life-threatening accident uh that changed the way you see

accident uh that changed the way you see accident uh that changed the way you see life the world also the way you see food life the world also the way you see food life the world also the way you see food and cooking uh can you tell me the story and cooking uh can you tell me the story and cooking uh can you tell me the story of it yeah uh so 2010 I was 37 I had of it yeah uh so 2010 I was 37 I had of it yeah uh so 2010 I was 37 I had opened the opened the opened the restaurant uh in 2004 and I had loved restaurant uh in 2004 and I had loved restaurant uh in 2004 and I had loved the restaurant world loved it but it I the restaurant world loved it but it I the restaurant world loved it but it I didn't really want to grow a restaurant didn't really want to grow a restaurant didn't really want to grow a restaurant company that wasn't my my goal and so I company that wasn't my my goal and so I company that wasn't my my goal and so I got went back into technology and I had got went back into technology and I had got went back into technology and I had uh I had gone from something that I uh I had gone from something that I uh I had gone from something that I love to something that I love to something that I love to something that I like for me it was like was like chewing like for me it was like was like chewing like for me it was like was like chewing sawdust every day I just couldn't sawdust every day I just couldn't sawdust every day I just couldn't believe that I had gone from that had believe that I had gone from that had believe that I had gone from that had changed my life had gone back into changed my life had gone back into changed my life had gone back into technology and now I do do work in technology and now I do do work in technology and now I do do work in technology and I I I do love it but I technology and I I I do love it but I technology and I I I do love it but I found a better relationship with it but found a better relationship with it but found a better relationship with it but I was really really unhappy um from the I was really really unhappy um from the I was really really unhappy um from the outside I was a sort of CEO of a hot outside I was a sort of CEO of a hot outside I was a sort of CEO of a hot startup but from the inside I was just startup but from the inside I was just startup but from the inside I was just just very unhappy and I um was in just very unhappy and I um was in just very unhappy and I um was in Jackson Hall and I was doing these very Jackson Hall and I was doing these very Jackson Hall and I was doing these very aggressive snowboard runs and I'm at the aggressive snowboard runs and I'm at the aggressive snowboard runs and I'm at the time a pretty pretty good aggressive time a pretty pretty good aggressive time a pretty pretty good aggressive snowboarder and I remember saying to snowboarder and I remember saying to snowboarder and I remember saying to myself look I've got kids I need to myself look I've got kids I need to myself look I've got kids I need to chill on this I'm next day was chill on this I'm next day was chill on this I'm next day was Valentine's Day next day tomorrow is Valentine's Day next day tomorrow is Valentine's Day next day tomorrow is Valentine's Day I'm just going to have a Valentine's Day I'm just going to have a Valentine's Day I'm just going to have a nice day with the family and and my my nice day with the family and and my my nice day with the family and and my my wife time and um we've been to a wife time and um we've been to a wife time and um we've been to a children's run to do the inner tube run children's run to do the inner tube run children's run to do the inner tube run and the tubes are small but everyone and the tubes are small but everyone and the tubes are small but everyone uses the same tube so I'm 6'5 and uh my

uses the same tube so I'm 6'5 and uh my uses the same tube so I'm 6'5 and uh my kids are four years old and everyone kids are four years old and everyone kids are four years old and everyone uses the same size tube that should have uses the same size tube that should have uses the same size tube that should have been a message to me not not to get on been a message to me not not to get on been a message to me not not to get on this thing but I went and got on it and this thing but I went and got on it and this thing but I went and got on it and on the first run and I went down and on the first run and I went down and on the first run and I went down and you're going super fast 35 miles an hour you're going super fast 35 miles an hour you're going super fast 35 miles an hour and the tube hit the braking mats and it and the tube hit the braking mats and it and the tube hit the braking mats and it stopped the little tube just stopped stopped the little tube just stopped stopped the little tube just stopped where where it was it just threw where where it was it just threw where where it was it just threw me I was my my head was uh facing me I was my my head was uh facing me I was my my head was uh facing downhill so that's created the wrong downhill so that's created the wrong downhill so that's created the wrong center of gravity so instead of breaking center of gravity so instead of breaking center of gravity so instead of breaking it just through me I landed on my head it just through me I landed on my head it just through me I landed on my head my head went into my chest like my head went into my chest like my head went into my chest like compression into my chest down like that compression into my chest down like that compression into my chest down like that I ruptured my spine at C6 and I ruptured my spine at C6 and I ruptured my spine at C6 and C7 C7 C7 and in like the blink of a second I was and in like the blink of a second I was and in like the blink of a second I was paralyze I was like paralyze I was like paralyze I was like like like what you know just like like like what you know just like like like what you know just like impossible impossible impossible to impossible to comprehend and that to impossible to comprehend and that to impossible to comprehend and that they take me put this they put this big they take me put this they put this big they take me put this they put this big thing on my halo on my head and they thing on my halo on my head and they thing on my halo on my head and they take me to the hospital which was more take me to the hospital which was more take me to the hospital which was more of a medical clinic and I'm just like of a medical clinic and I'm just like of a medical clinic and I'm just like what was going on here do you remember what was going on here do you remember what was going on here do you remember your thoughts from the moment it your thoughts from the moment it your thoughts from the moment it happened to like way to get to got to happened to like way to get to got to happened to like way to get to got to the hospital I remember being so this is the hospital I remember being so this is the hospital I remember being so this is a one of the things that actually the a one of the things that actually the a one of the things that actually the doctor said caused the most damage was doctor said caused the most damage was doctor said caused the most damage was um I was thrown from the tube and I and um I was thrown from the tube and I and um I was thrown from the tube and I and I heard this big crunch sound in my I heard this big crunch sound in my I heard this big crunch sound in my body and I knew that I was hurt but I

body and I knew that I was hurt but I body and I knew that I was hurt but I didn't feel any pain just Al that's didn't feel any pain just Al that's didn't feel any pain just Al that's that's also like why wouldn't you feel that's also like why wouldn't you feel that's also like why wouldn't you feel pain cuz you you don't paralyze you pain cuz you you don't paralyze you pain cuz you you don't paralyze you don't feel pain and so and I'm face down don't feel pain and so and I'm face down don't feel pain and so and I'm face down on the on the snow and the snow is on the on the snow and the snow is on the on the snow and the snow is burning my face cuz you know you can't burning my face cuz you know you can't burning my face cuz you know you can't you can't do that you need something and you can't do that you need something and you can't do that you need something and I found a way to turn myself around so I found a way to turn myself around so I found a way to turn myself around so that my face wouldn't be on the ground that my face wouldn't be on the ground that my face wouldn't be on the ground but I knew I couldn't but I knew I couldn't but I knew I couldn't move and um uh that they said actually move and um uh that they said actually move and um uh that they said actually caused more damage than well obviously caused more damage than well obviously caused more damage than well obviously the accident created the opening but the accident created the opening but the accident created the opening but once once you move your body the blood once once you move your body the blood once once you move your body the blood goes into the spinal column at a faster goes into the spinal column at a faster goes into the spinal column at a faster rate and that that is what caused my rate and that that is what caused my rate and that that is what caused my paralysis but I remember that and I um paralysis but I remember that and I um paralysis but I remember that and I um I remember getting into the into the the I remember getting into the into the the I remember getting into the into the the the the the ambulance um did you think you were ambulance um did you think you were ambulance um did you think you were going to die at that like in those going to die at that like in those going to die at that like in those seconds minutes it was a different seconds minutes it was a different seconds minutes it was a different feeling of death it was it's more it was more of a what is going on more it was more of a what is going on here like I just was it was more like I here like I just was it was more like I here like I just was it was more like I can't make sense of what's going on it can't make sense of what's going on it can't make sense of what's going on it was uh was uh was uh uh it was there was a moment where I got uh it was there was a moment where I got uh it was there was a moment where I got to the hospital and they they did this to the hospital and they they did this to the hospital and they they did this MRI and the doctor comes up to me and MRI and the doctor comes up to me and MRI and the doctor comes up to me and says look we've we've done this MRI and says look we've we've done this MRI and says look we've we've done this MRI and uh so so I'm now now I'm in the hospital uh so so I'm now now I'm in the hospital uh so so I'm now now I'm in the hospital and I'm like can't I can't move but I

and I'm like can't I can't move but I and I'm like can't I can't move but I also don't have feel any pain so I'm also don't have feel any pain so I'm also don't have feel any pain so I'm like it's very confusing your body looks like it's very confusing your body looks like it's very confusing your body looks like you can move it like look see I'm like you can move it like look see I'm like you can move it like look see I'm moving my hand like it looks like you moving my hand like it looks like you moving my hand like it looks like you can do that and then it just doesn't can do that and then it just doesn't can do that and then it just doesn't move it there there's no there's no move it there there's no there's no move it there there's no there's no there's no feed back Loop that it's not there's no feed back Loop that it's not there's no feed back Loop that it's not moving you your brain even thinks it's moving you your brain even thinks it's moving you your brain even thinks it's moving but it's not moving it's like the moving but it's not moving it's like the moving but it's not moving it's like the worst like most terrifying thing so the worst like most terrifying thing so the worst like most terrifying thing so the doctor says the way the way you broke doctor says the way the way you broke doctor says the way the way you broke your neck was really at a Zer degree your neck was really at a Zer degree your neck was really at a Zer degree angle that so rare but as a result there angle that so rare but as a result there angle that so rare but as a result there is no twisting of the of the is no twisting of the of the is no twisting of the of the spine we think that we can get the blood spine we think that we can get the blood spine we think that we can get the blood out of your of your spinal column and out of your of your spinal column and out of your of your spinal column and you should get uh some or maybe all of you should get uh some or maybe all of you should get uh some or maybe all of your movement your movement your movement back and um uh back and um uh back and um uh I was like oh okay I think I'm going to I was like oh okay I think I'm going to I was like oh okay I think I'm going to be fine I guess I'm going to be fine and be fine I guess I'm going to be fine and be fine I guess I'm going to be fine and then I realized I had tears just then I realized I had tears just then I realized I had tears just streaming down the side of my face and I streaming down the side of my face and I streaming down the side of my face and I was like Whoa man I have no idea what is was like Whoa man I have no idea what is was like Whoa man I have no idea what is going on so this kind of intense state going on so this kind of intense state going on so this kind of intense state of of of confusion I wonder if it's a weird confusion I wonder if it's a weird confusion I wonder if it's a weird psychological defense mechanism of like psychological defense mechanism of like psychological defense mechanism of like Tak taking you away from the obvious Tak taking you away from the obvious Tak taking you away from the obvious possibility of death yeah it was a for possibility of death yeah it was a for possibility of death yeah it was a for sure all the events all of the defenses sure all the events all of the defenses sure all the events all of the defenses were up I don't know else to describe it were up I don't know else to describe it were up I don't know else to describe it but there was there was denial yeah but there was there was denial yeah but there was there was denial yeah there there there was uh uh this there was this curiosity was uh uh this there was this curiosity was uh uh this there was this curiosity of like why is there no of like why is there no of like why is there no pain like that's that when they did

pain like that's that when they did pain like that's that when they did actually repair me and fix me it was 3 actually repair me and fix me it was 3 actually repair me and fix me it was 3 days later the pain days later the pain days later the pain was Indescribable how much pain I was in was Indescribable how much pain I was in was Indescribable how much pain I was in but there was no pain for 3 but there was no pain for 3 but there was no pain for 3 days this is like human body is days this is like human body is days this is like human body is fascinating man fascinating man fascinating man wow so they were able yeah so they did wow so they were able yeah so they did wow so they were able yeah so they did the surgery but I had this I had this the surgery but I had this I had this the surgery but I had this I had this very clear voice in my head that uh kind very clear voice in my head that uh kind very clear voice in my head that uh kind of determined that it's God I'm not of determined that it's God I'm not of determined that it's God I'm not religious but I don't know how else to religious but I don't know how else to religious but I don't know how else to describe the voice and this voice is describe the voice and this voice is describe the voice and this voice is very very very clear you're going to work with kids in clear you're going to work with kids in clear you're going to work with kids in food look okay where did that come from food look okay where did that come from food look okay where did that come from I'm like Tech CEO I have a restaurant I'm like Tech CEO I have a restaurant I'm like Tech CEO I have a restaurant should I and then we were working with should I and then we were working with should I and then we were working with some kids in schools with like some you some kids in schools with like some you some kids in schools with like some you know helping a local nonprofit and like know helping a local nonprofit and like know helping a local nonprofit and like no you're just going to work on kids and no you're just going to work on kids and no you're just going to work on kids and food U uh my good friend Antonio and my food U uh my good friend Antonio and my food U uh my good friend Antonio and my brother were in the hospital and I was brother were in the hospital and I was brother were in the hospital and I was like I'm going to work on kids and food like I'm going to work on kids and food like I'm going to work on kids and food you know CU they're like he's crazy he's you know CU they're like he's crazy he's you know CU they're like he's crazy he's lost his mind but but not not not that lost his mind but but not not not that lost his mind but but not not not that they were already no one was arguing they were already no one was arguing they were already no one was arguing with me but I was like I'm just going to with me but I was like I'm just going to with me but I was like I'm just going to do that I need to say it out loud and I do that I need to say it out loud and I do that I need to say it out loud and I remember resigning from my my job as CEO remember resigning from my my job as CEO remember resigning from my my job as CEO from the from the from the hospital hospital hospital and um that was it it was it was just and um that was it it was it was just and um that was it it was it was just clear it was a clear voice wasn't for a clear it was a clear voice wasn't for a clear it was a clear voice wasn't for a moment wasn't like a flash of light or moment wasn't like a flash of light or moment wasn't like a flash of light or anything it was probably two weeks of

anything it was probably two weeks of anything it was probably two weeks of clear voice of clarity Clarity exactly clear voice of clarity Clarity exactly clear voice of clarity Clarity exactly Clarity and no monkey brain nothing no Clarity and no monkey brain nothing no Clarity and no monkey brain nothing no monkey brain just Clarity so you're not monkey brain just Clarity so you're not monkey brain just Clarity so you're not a religious person but you do call it a religious person but you do call it a religious person but you do call it the voice of God who is that God do you the voice of God who is that God do you the voice of God who is that God do you think like who is that that where where think like who is that that where where think like who is that that where where did that come from well I've done iasa did that come from well I've done iasa did that come from well I've done iasa and I've spoken to what they call mother and I've spoken to what they call mother and I've spoken to what they call mother a which is another version of of a which is another version of of a which is another version of of God it's a it's a divine God it's a it's a divine God it's a it's a divine presence is maybe I think it's a better presence is maybe I think it's a better presence is maybe I think it's a better way to say it I've also had this debate way to say it I've also had this debate way to say it I've also had this debate in my head like maybe it's just me I'm in my head like maybe it's just me I'm in my head like maybe it's just me I'm talking to me and it's my my uh talking to me and it's my my uh talking to me and it's my my uh peaceful uh more Kinder more less caught peaceful uh more Kinder more less caught peaceful uh more Kinder more less caught up in the emotion of the day P version up in the emotion of the day P version up in the emotion of the day P version of Me Maybe it's me okay maybe it is but of Me Maybe it's me okay maybe it is but of Me Maybe it's me okay maybe it is but it's there but who are you like how deep it's there but who are you like how deep it's there but who are you like how deep does it go what what does you mean you does it go what what does you mean you does it go what what does you mean you could be you know first of all like the could be you know first of all like the could be you know first of all like the depth of what the human mind even is is depth of what the human mind even is is depth of what the human mind even is is a a gigantic mystery Consciousness all a a gigantic mystery Consciousness all a a gigantic mystery Consciousness all of it yeah like who are you it's like of it yeah like who are you it's like of it yeah like who are you it's like yeah maybe it is you but then maybe in yeah maybe it is you but then maybe in yeah maybe it is you but then maybe in order to build you we need to build the order to build you we need to build the order to build you we need to build the universe and the entire like you are universe and the entire like you are universe and the entire like you are actually a fundamentally a part of this actually a fundamentally a part of this actually a fundamentally a part of this whole Human Society so the piece the whole Human Society so the piece the whole Human Society so the piece the pieces of pieces of pieces of humans that you've interacted with are

humans that you've interacted with are humans that you've interacted with are all within you and then maybe the all within you and then maybe the all within you and then maybe the history of the humans that came before history of the humans that came before history of the humans that came before also in there and maybe the entirety of also in there and maybe the entirety of also in there and maybe the entirety of life on Earth is also in there and life on Earth is also in there and life on Earth is also in there and whatever the the whatever brought life whatever the the whatever brought life whatever the the whatever brought life about on Earth is in there somewhere so about on Earth is in there somewhere so about on Earth is in there somewhere so that's all you yeah all of the the which that's all you yeah all of the the which that's all you yeah all of the the which is really true evolution is it literally is really true evolution is it literally is really true evolution is it literally is true that that that we all are the is true that that that we all are the is true that that that we all are the photons from the sun came in part fish photons from the sun came in part fish photons from the sun came in part fish we all came from all came from that I we all came from all came from that I we all came from all came from that I think this is one you know so one of the think this is one you know so one of the think this is one you know so one of the uh one of the things I do is meditate uh one of the things I do is meditate uh one of the things I do is meditate and this was I've been meditating for and this was I've been meditating for and this was I've been meditating for many many years and what way I meditate many many years and what way I meditate many many years and what way I meditate is I I sit and I listen to my thoughts is I I sit and I listen to my thoughts is I I sit and I listen to my thoughts and I simply just do that for 15 to 20 and I simply just do that for 15 to 20 and I simply just do that for 15 to 20 minutes and it just calms the calms the minutes and it just calms the calms the minutes and it just calms the calms the nervous system and I I might breathe and nervous system and I I might breathe and nervous system and I I might breathe and just be breathe through because it's just be breathe through because it's just be breathe through because it's been a stressful day and it's just a been a stressful day and it's just a been a stressful day and it's just a beautiful way to I kind of do it around beautiful way to I kind of do it around beautiful way to I kind of do it around I remember I said I used to do a scatch I remember I said I used to do a scatch I remember I said I used to do a scatch at at the bar after work now I go at at the bar after work now I go at at the bar after work now I go meditate for instance it's a little less meditate for instance it's a little less meditate for instance it's a little less a little bit better for my uh for my for a little bit better for my uh for my for a little bit better for my uh for my for my for my health but um meditation I was my for my health but um meditation I was my for my health but um meditation I was taught um was Sam Harris actually taught taught um was Sam Harris actually taught taught um was Sam Harris actually taught me this uh was is not so much just about me this uh was is not so much just about me this uh was is not so much just about watching your watching your watching your thoughts but realizing that you're a thoughts but realizing that you're a thoughts but realizing that you're a watcher you're actually a watcher you're watcher you're actually a watcher you're watcher you're actually a watcher you're not just like who who is the person not just like who who is the person not just like who who is the person watching that that's you actually your watching that that's you actually your watching that that's you actually your thoughts are are floating through your thoughts are are floating through your thoughts are are floating through your mind but you are the

mind but you are the mind but you are the Watcher and I was like Ah that's very Watcher and I was like Ah that's very Watcher and I was like Ah that's very interesting okay so I'm going to learn interesting okay so I'm going to learn interesting okay so I'm going to learn that I'm going to I'm going to be the that I'm going to I'm going to be the that I'm going to I'm going to be the Watcher and what I learned was I'm Watcher and what I learned was I'm Watcher and what I learned was I'm watching these thought go watching these thought go watching these thought go by and there's a consistent other by and there's a consistent other by and there's a consistent other presence and I'm like what is that presence and I'm like what is that presence and I'm like what is that consistent other presence that's not a consistent other presence that's not a consistent other presence that's not a thought that is not a it's not a not thought that is not a it's not a not thought that is not a it's not a not something I can kind of let it float something I can kind of let it float something I can kind of let it float away and it doesn't even want to float away and it doesn't even want to float away and it doesn't even want to float away it isn't it's just it's just a away it isn't it's just it's just a away it isn't it's just it's just a consistent other presence that I can consistent other presence that I can consistent other presence that I can watch and watch and watch and feel so you you are the Watcher watching feel so you you are the Watcher watching feel so you you are the Watcher watching the feelings and thoughts but there's the feelings and thoughts but there's the feelings and thoughts but there's also other presence next to you almost also other presence next to you almost also other presence next to you almost yes yeah that's how I feel and it's a yes yeah that's how I feel and it's a yes yeah that's how I feel and it's a beautiful presence it's not not a beautiful presence it's not not a beautiful presence it's not not a presence that is trying to intervene presence that is trying to intervene presence that is trying to intervene it's not a presence that is trying to it's not a presence that is trying to it's not a presence that is trying to tell you what to do it's just a tell you what to do it's just a tell you what to do it's just a beautiful presence and that might be the beautiful presence and that might be the beautiful presence and that might be the the the thing part of the thing you met the the thing part of the thing you met the the thing part of the thing you met when uh you took iasa I learned about when uh you took iasa I learned about when uh you took iasa I learned about mother I where you have this experience mother I where you have this experience mother I where you have this experience of talking to actually I would say the of talking to actually I would say the of talking to actually I would say the closest thing to breaking my neck that closest thing to breaking my neck that closest thing to breaking my neck that feeling was I can you go through that feeling was I can you go through that feeling was I can you go through that experience cuz I'm actually traveling to experience cuz I'm actually traveling to experience cuz I'm actually traveling to the Amazon jungle in a in a month I'll the Amazon jungle in a in a month I'll the Amazon jungle in a in a month I'll probably do iasa for the first time okay probably do iasa for the first time okay probably do iasa for the first time okay so I need a preview unofficial so I need a preview unofficial so I need a preview unofficial instruction manual yeah sure so first of instruction manual yeah sure so first of instruction manual yeah sure so first of all I think many many different ways to all I think many many different ways to all I think many many different ways to do it right so and I have done I've done do it right so and I have done I've done do it right so and I have done I've done many many different ways um there's a many many different ways um there's a many many different ways um there's a very Western medicine approach where you

very Western medicine approach where you very Western medicine approach where you have uh doctors that uh look after you have uh doctors that uh look after you have uh doctors that uh look after you during the day you know put an eye mask during the day you know put an eye mask during the day you know put an eye mask on you're on on a futon and you're on you're on on a futon and you're on you're on on a futon and you're really are in a western medicine setting really are in a western medicine setting really are in a western medicine setting and it's a frankly for me has been the and it's a frankly for me has been the and it's a frankly for me has been the most powerful experience I feel the most most powerful experience I feel the most most powerful experience I feel the most comfortable because I'm part of western comfortable because I'm part of western comfortable because I'm part of western medicine in my upbringing The Other medicine in my upbringing The Other medicine in my upbringing The Other Extreme that they're kind of in between Extreme that they're kind of in between Extreme that they're kind of in between would be very probably a Peruvian would be very probably a Peruvian would be very probably a Peruvian ceremon where probably where we going to ceremon where probably where we going to ceremon where probably where we going to go very much um uh go very much um uh go very much um uh about you do it in a community you do it about you do it in a community you do it about you do it in a community you do it with others and you you feel people go with others and you you feel people go with others and you you feel people go through their pain and their through their pain and their through their pain and their processing um so I I know I know the processing um so I I know I know the processing um so I I know I know the whole gamut but the the thing that the whole gamut but the the thing that the whole gamut but the the thing that the thing that I found most powerful about thing that I found most powerful about thing that I found most powerful about it uh and profoundly powerful I would it uh and profoundly powerful I would it uh and profoundly powerful I would say first of all it's non-recreational say first of all it's non-recreational say first of all it's non-recreational so no don't no one should do this for a so no don't no one should do this for a so no don't no one should do this for a good time it's is not a good time this good time it's is not a good time this good time it's is not a good time this is uh this is a very almost traumatic is uh this is a very almost traumatic is uh this is a very almost traumatic but in again a beautiful way I actually but in again a beautiful way I actually but in again a beautiful way I actually going to say that way but it's not it's going to say that way but it's not it's going to say that way but it's not it's not traumatic it's not traumatic it's not traumatic it's profound so it's it's more like you profound so it's it's more like you profound so it's it's more like you don't have don't have don't have have you you you you you really leave have you you you you you really leave have you you you you you really leave who you were before who you were before who you were before behind and then you become the person behind and then you become the person behind and then you become the person you will be afterwards and that that's never an easy afterwards and that that's never an easy thing yes exactly and sometimes what thing yes exactly and sometimes what thing yes exactly and sometimes what what I recall is was arguing with

what I recall is was arguing with what I recall is was arguing with brother a and saying no I'm I'm fine brother a and saying no I'm I'm fine brother a and saying no I'm I'm fine like what what what are you talking like what what what are you talking like what what what are you talking about like leave me alone about like leave me alone about like leave me alone [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] and uh yeah how did that work and uh yeah how did that work and uh yeah how did that work [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] out out out uh but before 2010 the accident and the uh but before 2010 the accident and the uh but before 2010 the accident and the the two transformational experiences you the two transformational experiences you the two transformational experiences you had you were a very had you were a very had you were a very successful uh Tech CEO uh maybe go back successful uh Tech CEO uh maybe go back successful uh Tech CEO uh maybe go back to the early days uh with zip 2 in 1994 to the early days uh with zip 2 in 1994 to the early days uh with zip 2 in 1994 you and Elon started zip 2 tell me a you and Elon started zip 2 tell me a you and Elon started zip 2 tell me a story of that that yeah so 94 we story of that that yeah so 94 we story of that that yeah so 94 we actually did a road trip around the US actually did a road trip around the US actually did a road trip around the US to brainstorm about what what we wanted to brainstorm about what what we wanted to brainstorm about what what we wanted to do after college what was the road to do after college what was the road to do after college what was the road trip like was it that was awesome so we trip like was it that was awesome so we trip like was it that was awesome so we went from Silicon Valley to to went from Silicon Valley to to went from Silicon Valley to to Philadelphia nice and my brother's uh Philadelphia nice and my brother's uh Philadelphia nice and my brother's uh old like a very really cool you know old like a very really cool you know old like a very really cool you know it's one of those very old BMWs not not it's one of those very old BMWs not not it's one of those very old BMWs not not not ones like from the' 60s or 70s but not ones like from the' 60s or 70s but not ones like from the' 60s or 70s but it wasn't but but the car didn't work it it wasn't but but the car didn't work it it wasn't but but the car didn't work it would break down all the time but we had would break down all the time but we had would break down all the time but we had um we had a blast you know we just I um we had a blast you know we just I um we had a blast you know we just I remember going through remember going through remember going through needles on the border of California needles on the border of California needles on the border of California Arizona it's a town called needles it's Arizona it's a town called needles it's Arizona it's a town called needles it's the hottest place in America mhm and the the hottest place in America mhm and the the hottest place in America mhm and the engine could was not cooling so we had engine could was not cooling so we had engine could was not cooling so we had to put the heat on so we for the heat to put the heat on so we for the heat to put the heat on so we for the heat blasting to cool the keep the engine blasting to cool the keep the engine blasting to cool the keep the engine cool and keep the windows down because cool and keep the windows down because cool and keep the windows down because that you can't stand the heat in the car that you can't stand the heat in the car that you can't stand the heat in the car but actually the outside heat is hotter but actually the outside heat is hotter but actually the outside heat is hotter than the inside heat so you're you're than the inside heat so you're you're than the inside heat so you're you're just you're just in in a furnace you're

just you're just in in a furnace you're just you're just in in a furnace you're driving through night even I can't driving through night even I can't driving through night even I can't imagine doing that in the day imagine doing that in the day imagine doing that in the day yeah it was it was a it was a wonderful yeah it was it was a it was a wonderful yeah it was it was a it was a wonderful we took us a few weeks I think three we took us a few weeks I think three we took us a few weeks I think three weeks maybe first time Across America weeks maybe first time Across America weeks maybe first time Across America first uh like a road trip like that yeah first uh like a road trip like that yeah first uh like a road trip like that yeah for sure um but it was really not a road for sure um but it was really not a road for sure um but it was really not a road trip for tourist sites we we went to the trip for tourist sites we we went to the trip for tourist sites we we went to the weirdest places um and actually I would weirdest places um and actually I would weirdest places um and actually I would say we didn't we didn't go to them we say we didn't we didn't go to them we say we didn't we didn't go to them we broke down in the weirdest places broke down in the weirdest places broke down in the weirdest places because that's what that's when we because that's what that's when we because that's what that's when we stopped yeah dur Mee any interesting stopped yeah dur Mee any interesting stopped yeah dur Mee any interesting people I remember um we broke down in people I remember um we broke down in people I remember um we broke down in the bad lands of South Dakota mhm about the bad lands of South Dakota mhm about the bad lands of South Dakota mhm about an hour from Rapid City and there that an hour from Rapid City and there that an hour from Rapid City and there that road is empty and so we actually slept road is empty and so we actually slept road is empty and so we actually slept in in the car because there was there in in the car because there was there in in the car because there was there was just no one around you no cell was just no one around you no cell was just no one around you no cell phones in those days and eventually a phones in those days and eventually a phones in those days and eventually a trucker picked us up I was just like man trucker picked us up I was just like man trucker picked us up I was just like man you you guys are the dumbest kids on the you you guys are the dumbest kids on the you you guys are the dumbest kids on the planet was like 21 he was maybe 22 and planet was like 21 he was maybe 22 and planet was like 21 he was maybe 22 and uh but but he was so he was so nice to uh but but he was so he was so nice to uh but but he was so he was so nice to us and so kind to us and found us a us and so kind to us and found us a us and so kind to us and found us a mechanic in rep a city and and then mechanic in rep a city and and then mechanic in rep a city and and then found us a tow truck and yeah you find found us a tow truck and yeah you find found us a tow truck and yeah you find you find the most wonderful people when you find the most wonderful people when you find the most wonderful people when when you're when you're in a place of when you're when you're in a place of when you're when you're in a place of distress people uh people do want to distress people uh people do want to distress people uh people do want to take care of other people they help you take care of other people they help you take care of other people they help you yeah they want to help and especially yeah they want to help and especially yeah they want to help and especially when you're on a road trip I because I when you're on a road trip I because I when you're on a road trip I because I I've taken a road trip across the United I've taken a road trip across the United I've taken a road trip across the United States and there's a part of people States and there's a part of people States and there's a part of people where where where they they really love that they um I they they really love that they um I they they really love that they um I think part of them wants to do that also

think part of them wants to do that also think part of them wants to do that also wants to kind of Escape whatever the wants to kind of Escape whatever the wants to kind of Escape whatever the local struggles just whatever the local struggles just whatever the local struggles just whatever the mundaneness the struggle of Life are a mundaneness the struggle of Life are a mundaneness the struggle of Life are a road trip is a kind of thing where road trip is a kind of thing where road trip is a kind of thing where you're like you know what I'm going to you're like you know what I'm going to you're like you know what I'm going to get away from it all and I'm going to get away from it all and I'm going to get away from it all and I'm going to experience life in the full the Epic experience life in the full the Epic experience life in the full the Epic sort of Jack carak way of seeing America sort of Jack carak way of seeing America sort of Jack carak way of seeing America and the people not the tourist sites and the people not the tourist sites and the people not the tourist sites just the humans yeah exactly we this was just the humans yeah exactly we this was just the humans yeah exactly we this was not tourist related we did of course one not tourist related we did of course one not tourist related we did of course one we stopped at Mount Rushmore at night we stopped at Mount Rushmore at night we stopped at Mount Rushmore at night which you can see nothing yeah yeah we which you can see nothing yeah yeah we which you can see nothing yeah yeah we we thought that was hilarious you you we thought that was hilarious you you we thought that was hilarious you you couldn't see Mount Rush more that's couldn't see Mount Rush more that's couldn't see Mount Rush more that's great it was like well we we physically great it was like well we we physically great it was like well we we physically were here we a photo of us not in the were here we a photo of us not in the were here we a photo of us not in the dark you could just say you went to the dark you could just say you went to the dark you could just say you went to the Grand Canyon too at Grand Canyon too at Grand Canyon too at night uh and just visit different places night uh and just visit different places night uh and just visit different places when the car broke down I love it uh so when the car broke down I love it uh so when the car broke down I love it uh so yes you took the road trip before yes you took the road trip before yes you took the road trip before founding zip 2 yeah so so I had a founding zip 2 yeah so so I had a founding zip 2 yeah so so I had a experience in college running a house experience in college running a house experience in college running a house painting business that for me was my painting business that for me was my painting business that for me was my first uh experience with success it was first uh experience with success it was first uh experience with success it was very very hard it was a franchise where very very hard it was a franchise where very very hard it was a franchise where where they teach you know students how where they teach you know students how where they teach you know students how to paint houses and and but I I was good to paint houses and and but I I was good to paint houses and and but I I was good at it you know I um I built a team of 30 at it you know I um I built a team of 30 at it you know I um I built a team of 30 people but then after about two years people but then after about two years people but then after about two years and so I was like I I had a taste of hey and so I was like I I had a taste of hey and so I was like I I had a taste of hey I'm not I'm not unable to do this in I'm not I'm not unable to do this in I'm not I'm not unable to do this in fact my most vulnerable place I remember fact my most vulnerable place I remember fact my most vulnerable place I remember as an entrepreneur was I I had U I had I

as an entrepreneur was I I had U I had I as an entrepreneur was I I had U I had I just loved the idea of Wall Street and just loved the idea of Wall Street and just loved the idea of Wall Street and finance was kind of allured by it this finance was kind of allured by it this finance was kind of allured by it this is in late 80s I'm in high school and is in late 80s I'm in high school and is in late 80s I'm in high school and there was a lot of these books liars there was a lot of these books liars there was a lot of these books liars poker and others that came out I was poker and others that came out I was poker and others that came out I was like a man this this is awesome these like a man this this is awesome these like a man this this is awesome these people must be amazing so I went to people must be amazing so I went to people must be amazing so I went to business school and I I busted my ass to business school and I I busted my ass to business school and I I busted my ass to get like a kickass summer job and I got get like a kickass summer job and I got get like a kickass summer job and I got a job in one of the main Banks and it a job in one of the main Banks and it a job in one of the main Banks and it was in Toronto but it was like the was in Toronto but it was like the was in Toronto but it was like the original Wall Street and I was I was so original Wall Street and I was I was so original Wall Street and I was I was so disappointed with the people that I was disappointed with the people that I was disappointed with the people that I was around I was just like around I was just like around I was just like whoa I totally misunderstood what what whoa I totally misunderstood what what whoa I totally misunderstood what what what the banking world is it was very what the banking world is it was very what the banking world is it was very large Bank I'm sure if I'd gone to a large Bank I'm sure if I'd gone to a large Bank I'm sure if I'd gone to a more aggressive one maybe I would have more aggressive one maybe I would have more aggressive one maybe I would have had a better experience and I say had a better experience and I say had a better experience and I say aggressive meaning someone was paying aggressive meaning someone was paying aggressive meaning someone was paying attention like this was just a uh just attention like this was just a uh just attention like this was just a uh just people kind of showing up and not doing people kind of showing up and not doing people kind of showing up and not doing much you know and um any actually this much you know and um any actually this much you know and um any actually this funny so this is great so the so funny so this is great so the so funny so this is great so the so 1991 92 so one of those Summers uh the 1991 92 so one of those Summers uh the 1991 92 so one of those Summers uh the the but the summer job was the but the summer job was the but the summer job was literally you go to the the they print literally you go to the the they print literally you go to the the they print out the sales for all for all brokerage out the sales for all for all brokerage out the sales for all for all brokerage houses for the whole company like it's a houses for the whole company like it's a houses for the whole company like it's a pile of papers that's maybe four or five pile of papers that's maybe four or five pile of papers that's maybe four or five feet tall and you have a pencil and you feet tall and you have a pencil and you feet tall and you have a pencil and you add things up using your pencil and a add things up using your pencil and a add things up using your pencil and a calculator and calculator and calculator and I had known about Lotus 123 forever

I had known about Lotus 123 forever I had known about Lotus 123 forever Excel was coming out and I was like hey Excel was coming out and I was like hey Excel was coming out and I was like hey guys you know that there's a different guys you know that there's a different guys you know that there's a different way to do way to do way to do this and they're like don't talk to us this and they're like don't talk to us this and they're like don't talk to us just the just your job yeah go do it just the just your job yeah go do it just the just your job yeah go do it just use the pencil so I went to the just use the pencil so I went to the just use the pencil so I went to the head of the data I just asked you know head of the data I just asked you know head of the data I just asked you know those those days you have the manila those those days you have the manila those those days you have the manila envelope where you can you you just envelope where you can you you just envelope where you can you you just write the name of the person that you write the name of the person that you write the name of the person that you want this to go to and it'll go to them want this to go to and it'll go to them want this to go to and it'll go to them it's like email I guess but you there's it's like email I guess but you there's it's like email I guess but you there's no there's no filter so you I there's no there's no filter so you I there's no there's no filter so you I there's spam filter there's no spam filter so spam filter there's no spam filter so spam filter there's no spam filter so sent a note I wrote a nice letter to the sent a note I wrote a nice letter to the sent a note I wrote a nice letter to the to the database administrator who I to the database administrator who I to the database administrator who I didn't really know and I said would you didn't really know and I said would you didn't really know and I said would you be open to me saying hi and maybe I can be open to me saying hi and maybe I can be open to me saying hi and maybe I can get access to the file rather than print get access to the file rather than print get access to the file rather than print the damn thing out and use a pencil and the damn thing out and use a pencil and the damn thing out and use a pencil and she responded right away and we hit it she responded right away and we hit it she responded right away and we hit it off I mean she was great and so she's off I mean she was great and so she's off I mean she was great and so she's like of course you can have I can't like of course you can have I can't like of course you can have I can't believe these guys are doing what believe these guys are doing what believe these guys are doing what they're doing so um for the first couple they're doing so um for the first couple they're doing so um for the first couple of weeks of the summer I I wrote I wrote of weeks of the summer I I wrote I wrote of weeks of the summer I I wrote I wrote code in Lotus 123 code in Lotus 123 code in Lotus 123 that would um you it's going to sound that would um you it's going to sound that would um you it's going to sound crazy but you type in the date crazy but you type in the date crazy but you type in the date range you type in the geography and you range you type in the geography and you range you type in the geography and you type in the you know which part of the type in the you know which part of the type in the you know which part of the bank you care about and it will bank you care about and it will bank you care about and it will literally just create it a new literally just create it a new literally just create it a new spreadsheet and it would just the macro spreadsheet and it would just the macro spreadsheet and it would just the macro would print it out it was like a magic would print it out it was like a magic would print it out it was like a magic trick for these guys and incredible I trick for these guys and incredible I trick for these guys and incredible I know no it's like it's a sounding that know no it's like it's a sounding that know no it's like it's a sounding that that's I mean for me I'm like guys this

that's I mean for me I'm like guys this that's I mean for me I'm like guys this is is is so obvious and uh um so I I got all that obvious and uh um so I I got all that done and this job was supposed to take done and this job was supposed to take done and this job was supposed to take three or four months because it's really three or four months because it's really three or four months because it's really you're doing this with a pencil and now you're doing this with a pencil and now you're doing this with a pencil and now I'd created this macro that you could I'd created this macro that you could I'd created this macro that you could not just not just do it you could do it not just not just do it you could do it not just not just do it you could do it you could tweak it and say I want this you could tweak it and say I want this you could tweak it and say I want this this area of the world or this area of this area of the world or this area of this area of the world or this area of um or this this month or you know that um or this this month or you know that um or this this month or you know that month compared to that month you know month compared to that month you know month compared to that month you know all the normal things you could do with all the normal things you could do with all the normal things you could do with a spreadsheet and um the software was on a spreadsheet and um the software was on a spreadsheet and um the software was on a floppy disc and I was like here's the a floppy disc and I was like here's the a floppy disc and I was like here's the software and just put it put it into software and just put it put it into software and just put it put it into your computer all right now now load your computer all right now now load your computer all right now now load open one two three and and it just pops open one two three and and it just pops open one two three and and it just pops up with a little box that type in your up with a little box that type in your up with a little box that type in your dates and you know the whole little I dates and you know the whole little I dates and you know the whole little I coded little thing like that and um what coded little thing like that and um what coded little thing like that and um what I what I was astounded by I what I was astounded by I what I was astounded by was not not so much that it was a magic was not not so much that it was a magic was not not so much that it was a magic trick it was the lack of appreciation trick it was the lack of appreciation trick it was the lack of appreciation for Innovation they just looked at it for Innovation they just looked at it for Innovation they just looked at it they were like huh that's nice M and I they were like huh that's nice M and I they were like huh that's nice M and I was like you just we're going to have was like you just we're going to have was like you just we're going to have someone spend hundreds of hours doing someone spend hundreds of hours doing someone spend hundreds of hours doing something and now it's something you can something and now it's something you can something and now it's something you can do in a minute yeah if that doesn't you do in a minute yeah if that doesn't you do in a minute yeah if that doesn't you excitement Mo yeah like if that doesn't excitement Mo yeah like if that doesn't excitement Mo yeah like if that doesn't move your needle what the heck and so I move your needle what the heck and so I move your needle what the heck and so I was really disappointed with with the was really disappointed with with the was really disappointed with with the banking World anyway so that that was banking World anyway so that that was banking World anyway so that that was that was also fun such a good example that was also fun such a good example that was also fun such a good example though yeah and then also see the though yeah and then also see the though yeah and then also see the possibility of where that goes but then possibility of where that goes but then possibility of where that goes but then so then I I I got back to business so then I I I got back to business so then I I I got back to business school and I I I canceled all of my

school and I I I canceled all of my school and I I I canceled all of my business classes I possibly could I was business classes I possibly could I was business classes I possibly could I was actually in business school so I actually in business school so I actually in business school so I couldn't cancel them all all finance couldn't cancel them all all finance couldn't cancel them all all finance courses like I'm I'm done with that courses like I'm I'm done with that courses like I'm I'm done with that industry I'm not going back so the the industry I'm not going back so the the industry I'm not going back so the the vulnerable part for me was my whole vulnerable part for me was my whole vulnerable part for me was my whole family is full of family is full of family is full of entrepreneurs and there was there was entrepreneurs and there was there was entrepreneurs and there was there was this franchise to do house painting and this franchise to do house painting and this franchise to do house painting and I genuinely was afraid that I wouldn't I genuinely was afraid that I wouldn't I genuinely was afraid that I wouldn't be good at it and I was like wow I be good at it and I was like wow I be good at it and I was like wow I really am afraid of failure it's very really am afraid of failure it's very really am afraid of failure it's very easy to avoid entrepreneurship but if easy to avoid entrepreneurship but if easy to avoid entrepreneurship but if your whole family's entrepreneurs you your whole family's entrepreneurs you your whole family's entrepreneurs you and you go in and you aren't good um I and you go in and you aren't good um I and you go in and you aren't good um I was really afraid you're going to have was really afraid you're going to have was really afraid you're going to have to face that failure every time you meet to face that failure every time you meet to face that failure every time you meet your family yes and um it's it's your family yes and um it's it's your family yes and um it's it's uh our family wonderful and everything uh our family wonderful and everything uh our family wonderful and everything but they but pretty much everyone's an but they but pretty much everyone's an but they but pretty much everyone's an entrepreneur and and of of course not entrepreneur and and of of course not entrepreneur and and of of course not everyone is perfect not everyone's you everyone is perfect not everyone's you everyone is perfect not everyone's you know doing it successfully all the time know doing it successfully all the time know doing it successfully all the time but when you're when you're young and but when you're when you're young and but when you're when you're young and you want to prove yourself it really was you want to prove yourself it really was you want to prove yourself it really was putting my heart on my sleeve is I putting my heart on my sleeve is I putting my heart on my sleeve is I started the the the business in this started the the the business in this started the the the business in this part of Toronto and for the part of Toronto and for the part of Toronto and for the first paint the houses in the summer but first paint the houses in the summer but first paint the houses in the summer but you do all your sales pre before the you do all your sales pre before the you do all your sales pre before the summer and you know all the way till a summer and you know all the way till a summer and you know all the way till a April I was just not succeeding and I April I was just not succeeding and I April I was just not succeeding and I was like oh I'm like oh my God I'm was like oh I'm like oh my God I'm was like oh I'm like oh my God I'm just I'm just going to fail and I I just I'm just going to fail and I I just I'm just going to fail and I I remember that I was like my my whole remember that I was like my my whole remember that I was like my my whole nervous system was like I'm a failure nervous system was like I'm a failure nervous system was like I'm a failure and I remember had this general manager

and I remember had this general manager and I remember had this general manager who who you know he was like you seem who who you know he was like you seem who who you know he was like you seem like you know what you're like you know what you're like you know what you're doing why are you not making any sales doing why are you not making any sales doing why are you not making any sales and so so he actually went with me on a and so so he actually went with me on a and so so he actually went with me on a few sales calls and I was like he's like few sales calls and I was like he's like few sales calls and I was like he's like oh you're he he was great you're doing oh you're he he was great you're doing oh you're he he was great you're doing this wrong you're doing that wrong this wrong you're doing that wrong this wrong you're doing that wrong you're doing this wrong and Chang those you're doing this wrong and Chang those you're doing this wrong and Chang those three things and it was like a three things and it was like a three things and it was like a uh like a like a watershed moment just uh like a like a watershed moment just uh like a like a watershed moment just like all of a sudden and I and I just like all of a sudden and I and I just like all of a sudden and I and I just follow the instructions of what this guy follow the instructions of what this guy follow the instructions of what this guy told me all of a sudden every single told me all of a sudden every single told me all of a sudden every single sale I would make I was sale I would make I was sale I would make I was like I can't believe that I it was like I can't believe that I it was like I can't believe that I it was really my my um lack of humility to really my my um lack of humility to really my my um lack of humility to learn from someone else I was like no learn from someone else I was like no learn from someone else I was like no I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to prove that I can do this without your prove that I can do this without your prove that I can do this without your teachings and I I was going to fail so teachings and I I was going to fail so teachings and I I was going to fail so to you that humility to you that humility to you that humility is essential for the entrepreneur is essential for the entrepreneur is essential for the entrepreneur especially young I would say if we if we especially young I would say if we if we especially young I would say if we if we have an openness to learning which does have an openness to learning which does have an openness to learning which does require require require humility humility humility um you you you course correct you help um you you you course correct you help um you you you course correct you help get other people to help you course get other people to help you course get other people to help you course correct but it it does start with correct but it it does start with correct but it it does start with humility because if you if you try and humility because if you if you try and humility because if you if you try and pretend you have all the answers you pretend you have all the answers you pretend you have all the answers you don't so you went from that to founding don't so you went from that to founding don't so you went from that to founding zip 2 that was an interesting time in zip 2 that was an interesting time in zip 2 that was an interesting time in the history of tech yeah what I mean the history of tech yeah what I mean the history of tech yeah what I mean what was it like you what was it like you what was it like you mentioned uh the first people to look at

mentioned uh the first people to look at mentioned uh the first people to look at a map uh basically a directions yeah so a map uh basically a directions yeah so a map uh basically a directions yeah so mapping had been on the internet but mapping had been on the internet but mapping had been on the internet but vector-based mapping had not so that's vector-based mapping had not so that's vector-based mapping had not so that's the ability to zoom in or zoom out and the ability to zoom in or zoom out and the ability to zoom in or zoom out and it's really data versus an image that it's really data versus an image that it's really data versus an image that comes across and uh we we came went to comes across and uh we we came went to comes across and uh we we came went to this company called navtech my brother this company called navtech my brother this company called navtech my brother and I and we just asked for the data and and I and we just asked for the data and and I and we just asked for the data and they this is Silicon Valley they wrote they this is Silicon Valley they wrote they this is Silicon Valley they wrote us onepage letter that we had to sign us onepage letter that we had to sign us onepage letter that we had to sign and said here's all of our data that we and said here's all of our data that we and said here's all of our data that we own it you don't own it but you can use own it you don't own it but you can use own it you don't own it but you can use it on the internet and if you ever make it on the internet and if you ever make it on the internet and if you ever make any money on it you have to call us MH any money on it you have to call us MH any money on it you have to call us MH that was it yeah we're like okay that that was it yeah we're like okay that that was it yeah we're like okay that sounds great so we put it up on the sounds great so we put it up on the sounds great so we put it up on the internet and back in those days it might internet and back in those days it might internet and back in those days it might take 60 to 120 seconds to actually give take 60 to 120 seconds to actually give take 60 to 120 seconds to actually give you an answer back but it was amazing you an answer back but it was amazing you an answer back but it was amazing the door too the door too the door too directions the ability to take a map and directions the ability to take a map and directions the ability to take a map and zoom in and zoom zoom in and zoom zoom in and zoom out uh we use these things 10 times a out uh we use these things 10 times a out uh we use these things 10 times a day now um it was amazing we were the day now um it was amazing we were the day now um it was amazing we were the first two humans to see it on the first two humans to see it on the first two humans to see it on the internet like this stuff didn't even internet like this stuff didn't even internet like this stuff didn't even exist to the world like the navtec was exist to the world like the navtec was exist to the world like the navtec was building it for never L for HZ never building it for never L for HZ never building it for never L for HZ never loss which would come out a few years loss which would come out a few years loss which would come out a few years later this was not something that people later this was not something that people later this was not something that people knew existed this was something we knew existed this was something we knew existed this was something we discovered that it existed and we're discovered that it existed and we're discovered that it existed and we're like well let's put it on the internet like well let's put it on the internet like well let's put it on the internet and share it with the world what did the and share it with the world what did the and share it with the world what did the two of you feel like to like to see that two of you feel like to like to see that two of you feel like to like to see that magic did you know magic did you know magic did you know amazing it was like amazing it was like amazing it was like what like did you I mean the amazing what like did you I mean the amazing what like did you I mean the amazing just that it's cool but also that you

just that it's cool but also that you just that it's cool but also that you could see the future that this could could see the future that this could could see the future that this could transform I don't think I don't think transform I don't think I don't think transform I don't think I don't think people people people understand before this understand before this understand before this moment you could not be told your moment you could not be told your moment you could not be told your directions yeah you just could not like directions yeah you just could not like directions yeah you just could not like today we live in this world where we today we live in this world where we today we live in this world where we told our directions all the time before told our directions all the time before told our directions all the time before this moment you could not be told your this moment you could not be told your this moment you could not be told your directions yeah and all of a sudden you directions yeah and all of a sudden you directions yeah and all of a sudden you could yeah it wasn't like a little thing could yeah it wasn't like a little thing could yeah it wasn't like a little thing yeah there's uh there's a bunch of yeah there's uh there's a bunch of yeah there's uh there's a bunch of things that we once we have we take it things that we once we have we take it things that we once we have we take it for granted and that takes like a day for granted and that takes like a day for granted and that takes like a day for for for people transition totally it's like boom people transition totally it's like boom people transition totally it's like boom oh okay cool right exactly exactly and oh okay cool right exactly exactly and oh okay cool right exactly exactly and it's when you see maybe when you're one it's when you see maybe when you're one it's when you see maybe when you're one of the first humans to see that thing of the first humans to see that thing of the first humans to see that thing you're like holy shit holy shit this is you're like holy shit holy shit this is you're like holy shit holy shit this is going to be used by everyone all the going to be used by everyone all the going to be used by everyone all the time forever so zip 2 was a success I time forever so zip 2 was a success I time forever so zip 2 was a success I would say this was a success but it was would say this was a success but it was would say this was a success but it was also a very hard company to build and I also a very hard company to build and I also a very hard company to build and I mean it because the internet in those mean it because the internet in those mean it because the internet in those days was a boom time we were being days was a boom time we were being days was a boom time we were being funded but you couldn't make any funded but you couldn't make any funded but you couldn't make any money and so it was actually really hard money and so it was actually really hard money and so it was actually really hard the constant outside criticism that we the constant outside criticism that we the constant outside criticism that we aren't for real this is not going to aren't for real this is not going to aren't for real this is not going to survive this is not going to and it it survive this is not going to and it it survive this is not going to and it it it started to feel that way we're like it started to feel that way we're like it started to feel that way we're like wow man this this is uh we are doing wow man this this is uh we are doing wow man this this is uh we are doing something that is great that people are something that is great that people are something that is great that people are using and we were top 100 website um

using and we were top 100 website um using and we were top 100 website um most of our work was through folks like most of our work was through folks like most of our work was through folks like the New York Times so we even even much the New York Times so we even even much the New York Times so we even even much much busier than that but the but the um much busier than that but the but the um much busier than that but the but the um but there was just no money at it and but there was just no money at it and but there was just no money at it and even today go to Google Maps there's no even today go to Google Maps there's no even today go to Google Maps there's no money in it it's just uh it's just local money in it it's just uh it's just local money in it it's just uh it's just local search that that is needed for everyone search that that is needed for everyone search that that is needed for everyone and so it became an add-on to search but and so it became an add-on to search but and so it became an add-on to search but even remember in those days you couldn't even remember in those days you couldn't even remember in those days you couldn't make money at search either mhm no one make money at search either mhm no one make money at search either mhm no one had figured out adwards or anything they had figured out adwards or anything they had figured out adwards or anything they didn't realize how big of a business didn't realize how big of a business didn't realize how big of a business this was but we all knew this was a this was but we all knew this was a this was but we all knew this was a thing mhm and everyone was using it but thing mhm and everyone was using it but thing mhm and everyone was using it but didn't quite know how to make money didn't quite know how to make money didn't quite know how to make money couldn't make money when we got acquired couldn't make money when we got acquired couldn't make money when we got acquired it was a Bittersweet moment because it was a Bittersweet moment because it was a Bittersweet moment because compact that owned alter Vista wanted to compact that owned alter Vista wanted to compact that owned alter Vista wanted to merge so that's sort of regular search merge so that's sort of regular search merge so that's sort of regular search with with the best search engine at the with with the best search engine at the with with the best search engine at the time preg Google with zip 2 which would time preg Google with zip 2 which would time preg Google with zip 2 which would be the best local search and it would be be the best local search and it would be be the best local search and it would be a Yahoo a Yahoo a Yahoo killer and the the uh compac just wanted killer and the the uh compac just wanted killer and the the uh compac just wanted to make money by taking the company to make money by taking the company to make money by taking the company public but they wouldn't give us any public but they wouldn't give us any public but they wouldn't give us any stock they would just they paid us cash stock they would just they paid us cash stock they would just they paid us cash which turned out actually very well for which turned out actually very well for which turned out actually very well for us but because the whole internet Bubble us but because the whole internet Bubble us but because the whole internet Bubble Burst we didn't know that at the time Burst we didn't know that at the time Burst we didn't know that at the time and so it was bittersweet because they and so it was bittersweet because they and so it was bittersweet because they they essentially wanted our company with they essentially wanted our company with they essentially wanted our company with and we were welcome to stay but uh but and we were welcome to stay but uh but and we were welcome to stay but uh but you don't have to right and that feeling you don't have to right and that feeling you don't have to right and that feeling was pretty that was pretty rough was pretty that was pretty rough was pretty that was pretty rough feeling but in retrospect it opened the feeling but in retrospect it opened the feeling but in retrospect it opened the door to it set us set us up for an door to it set us set us up for an door to it set us set us up for an incredible platform to go do beautiful incredible platform to go do beautiful incredible platform to go do beautiful things you've invested in

things you've invested in things you've invested in x.com uh that eventually merged with x.com uh that eventually merged with x.com uh that eventually merged with PayPal that's a fascinating story there PayPal that's a fascinating story there PayPal that's a fascinating story there also fascinating on many levels also fascinating on many levels also fascinating on many levels including the fact that the the current including the fact that the the current including the fact that the the current social media company formerly known as social media company formerly known as social media company formerly known as Twitter is now called X there's a Twitter is now called X there's a Twitter is now called X there's a history has like a has a rhyme to it history has like a has a rhyme to it history has like a has a rhyme to it like it's kind of all hilarious in a like it's kind of all hilarious in a like it's kind of all hilarious in a certain kind of way uh you invested in certain kind of way uh you invested in certain kind of way uh you invested in and help sell a lot of the initial and help sell a lot of the initial and help sell a lot of the initial products for products for products for Tesla yeah I still still on the board of Tesla yeah I still still on the board of Tesla yeah I still still on the board of Tesla Tesla is 20 years now is that Tesla Tesla is 20 years now is that Tesla Tesla is 20 years now is that amazing 20 years yeah from the Roadster amazing 20 years yeah from the Roadster amazing 20 years yeah from the Roadster the initial Roadster to I still have the the initial Roadster to I still have the the initial Roadster to I still have the the first business plan so I didn't join the first business plan so I didn't join the first business plan so I didn't join as a Founder I join as a as a founding as a Founder I join as a as a founding as a Founder I join as a as a founding board member and so I actually I didn't board member and so I actually I didn't board member and so I actually I didn't write the business plan I I got to read write the business plan I I got to read write the business plan I I got to read it and I still have that I still have it it and I still have that I still have it it and I still have that I still have it as a part of History did you see the as a part of History did you see the as a part of History did you see the future at that time future at that time future at that time like the company that Tesla is today like the company that Tesla is today like the company that Tesla is today could you have possibly could you Elon could you have possibly could you Elon could you have possibly could you Elon imagine it no no I I um I certainly imagine it no no I I um I certainly imagine it no no I I um I certainly didn't what I what I saw in it didn't what I what I saw in it didn't what I what I saw in it was a real for me personally I was was a real for me personally I was was a real for me personally I was really upset that the General Motors had really upset that the General Motors had really upset that the General Motors had killed the their EV car there's even a killed the their EV car there's even a killed the their EV car there's even a movie called who killed the electric car movie called who killed the electric car movie called who killed the electric car and I and I knew that the the physics of and I and I knew that the the physics of and I and I knew that the the physics of of um of electric is perfectly fine I of um of electric is perfectly fine I of um of electric is perfectly fine I mean there's no reason why you couldn't mean there's no reason why you couldn't mean there's no reason why you couldn't use an electric car to drive around what use an electric car to drive around what use an electric car to drive around what what I what resonated with me with the what I what resonated with me with the what I what resonated with me with the with the business plan

with the business plan with the business plan was take an electric motor which is was take an electric motor which is was take an electric motor which is really a high performance motor and put really a high performance motor and put really a high performance motor and put it in a sports car and sell it at a high it in a sports car and sell it at a high it in a sports car and sell it at a high price as a way to enter into the market price as a way to enter into the market price as a way to enter into the market whereas what what others had been doing whereas what what others had been doing whereas what what others had been doing at least General Motors had done is you at least General Motors had done is you at least General Motors had done is you put it into a really crummy car and you put it into a really crummy car and you put it into a really crummy car and you you sell it as a commuter vehicle that you sell it as a commuter vehicle that you sell it as a commuter vehicle that doesn't really work that well and looks doesn't really work that well and looks doesn't really work that well and looks ugly as well like they really did ugly as well like they really did ugly as well like they really did everything they could to make that thing everything they could to make that thing everything they could to make that thing as ugly as Sin and and then um I was as ugly as Sin and and then um I was as ugly as Sin and and then um I was like okay I get it we're we're going to like okay I get it we're we're going to like okay I get it we're we're going to take a an appropriate technology and put take a an appropriate technology and put take a an appropriate technology and put it in an appropriate car so that when it in an appropriate car so that when it in an appropriate car so that when you have because electric motors they you have because electric motors they you have because electric motors they have constant torque you incredible have constant torque you incredible have constant torque you incredible power put it in a car that that looks power put it in a car that that looks power put it in a car that that looks like a sports car you know so so so the like a sports car you know so so so the like a sports car you know so so so the idea was to put it in the Lotus Elise idea was to put it in the Lotus Elise idea was to put it in the Lotus Elise redesigned it a bit um redesigned it a bit um redesigned it a bit um and um I even at that point I was like and um I even at that point I was like and um I even at that point I was like this is theoretically good so I'm going this is theoretically good so I'm going this is theoretically good so I'm going to join and help build it but I was not to join and help build it but I was not to join and help build it but I was not convinced that it would work because convinced that it would work because convinced that it would work because because General Motors had done such a because General Motors had done such a because General Motors had done such a terrible job of making everyone think terrible job of making everyone think terrible job of making everyone think that these things are terrible but but I that these things are terrible but but I that these things are terrible but but I was curious and the time that I fell in was curious and the time that I fell in was curious and the time that I fell in love with the company and its mission love with the company and its mission love with the company and its mission was I was driving in in a in a what's was I was driving in in a in a what's was I was driving in in a in a what's called a mule where we we take a a a a called a mule where we we take a a a a called a mule where we we take a a a a car and we take the engine out and we car and we take the engine out and we car and we take the engine out and we put put in a electric drive train and I put put in a electric drive train and I put put in a electric drive train and I drove it you know even the dashboards drove it you know even the dashboards drove it you know even the dashboards there's no dashboard it's just like you there's no dashboard it's just like you there's no dashboard it's just like you got you got to steering wheel and it's got you got to steering wheel and it's got you got to steering wheel and it's just like wires and everything around

just like wires and everything around just like wires and everything around and I remember there's a street we were and I remember there's a street we were and I remember there's a street we were on in the Bay Area called Bing Street on in the Bay Area called Bing Street on in the Bay Area called Bing Street and I was just like no no no no traffic and I was just like no no no no traffic and I was just like no no no no traffic so I'm just going to drive this I'm the so I'm just going to drive this I'm the so I'm just going to drive this I'm the floor it and see what happens and it was floor it and see what happens and it was floor it and see what happens and it was it was a feeling I'd never experienced it was a feeling I'd never experienced it was a feeling I'd never experienced before so it's not gasoline cars have an before so it's not gasoline cars have an before so it's not gasoline cars have an inertia to them so you inertia to them so you inertia to them so you yeah this is just was like being shot yeah this is just was like being shot yeah this is just was like being shot out of a cannon mhm and I okay this is out of a cannon mhm and I okay this is out of a cannon mhm and I okay this is going to be real it's a very spaceship going to be real it's a very spaceship going to be real it's a very spaceship like feeling yeah it's like whoa it's like feeling yeah it's like whoa it's like feeling yeah it's like whoa it's like the G the G the g4ce pulls you back like the G the G the g4ce pulls you back like the G the G the g4ce pulls you back yeah so so I was like okay this is uh yeah so so I was like okay this is uh yeah so so I was like okay this is uh this is going to be great this going be this is going to be great this going be this is going to be great this going be this is going to be an interesting we're this is going to be an interesting we're this is going to be an interesting we're going to create something interesting going to create something interesting going to create something interesting here I think the real transformative here I think the real transformative here I think the real transformative thing for Tesla was the the model thing for Tesla was the the model thing for Tesla was the the model 3 uh when we were able to get the price 3 uh when we were able to get the price 3 uh when we were able to get the price down for um the world and that was also down for um the world and that was also down for um the world and that was also one of the most challenging oh my one of the most challenging oh my one of the most challenging oh my periods for Tesla for we were borderline periods for Tesla for we were borderline periods for Tesla for we were borderline bankrupt like two or three times that bankrupt like two or three times that bankrupt like two or three times that year I mean it was just every and year I mean it was just every and year I mean it was just every and everyone was hating on us about whether everyone was hating on us about whether everyone was hating on us about whether we'd get that we'd get that we'd get that done the model 3 today is incredibly done the model 3 today is incredibly done the model 3 today is incredibly affordable car like a 300 bucks a month affordable car like a 300 bucks a month affordable car like a 300 bucks a month kind of lease and $3,000 down that's kind of lease and $3,000 down that's kind of lease and $3,000 down that's where you get the scale that's where you where you get the scale that's where you where you get the scale that's where you get people who and by the way it's a get people who and by the way it's a get people who and by the way it's a great car it's even a better model 3 now great car it's even a better model 3 now great car it's even a better model 3 now than it was five years ago we we don't than it was five years ago we we don't than it was five years ago we we don't function the way car companies function function the way car companies function function the way car companies function right we we function more like how an right we we function more like how an right we we function more like how an iPhone company Apple works so our model

iPhone company Apple works so our model iPhone company Apple works so our model 3 today is is this year is better than 3 today is is this year is better than 3 today is is this year is better than last year it's like it's way better and last year it's like it's way better and last year it's like it's way better and like we just keep getting better yeah like we just keep getting better yeah like we just keep getting better yeah and the software is a fundamental part and the software is a fundamental part and the software is a fundamental part of the car and the software keeps of the car and the software keeps of the car and the software keeps improving exactly and we can we upload improving exactly and we can we upload improving exactly and we can we upload over the air which was one of the things over the air which was one of the things over the air which was one of the things that people don't often acknowledge it's that people don't often acknowledge it's that people don't often acknowledge it's the overthe a updates it's like a the overthe a updates it's like a the overthe a updates it's like a revolutionary thing it's not just the revolutionary thing it's not just the revolutionary thing it's not just the autopilot to me it's like the over the a autopilot to me it's like the over the a autopilot to me it's like the over the a updates is even bigger thing that an updates is even bigger thing that an updates is even bigger thing that an autopilot at least in this like moment autopilot at least in this like moment autopilot at least in this like moment of History because you you basically of History because you you basically of History because you you basically turned the car into the iPhone exactly turned the car into the iPhone exactly turned the car into the iPhone exactly it's an iPhone with wheels um but it's an iPhone with wheels um but it's an iPhone with wheels um but actually talking about autopilot like actually talking about autopilot like actually talking about autopilot like right after this interview I'm going to right after this interview I'm going to right after this interview I'm going to go test out the latest model 3 you're go test out the latest model 3 you're go test out the latest model 3 you're going to get driven around by a robot going to get driven around by a robot going to get driven around by a robot I'm going to get driven around by the I'm going to get driven around by the I'm going to get driven around by the car I'm going to say I want to go to car I'm going to say I want to go to car I'm going to say I want to go to this barbecue join mhm take me there and this barbecue join mhm take me there and this barbecue join mhm take me there and park me there and um I'm going to see park me there and um I'm going to see park me there and um I'm going to see how it is and this is our the the latest how it is and this is our the the latest how it is and this is our the the latest model 3 that we have out since in model 3 that we have out since in model 3 that we have out since in production anyone can buy it and it's production anyone can buy it and it's production anyone can buy it and it's super affordable and it's like okay um super affordable and it's like okay um super affordable and it's like okay um uh it's not you know full stop driving uh it's not you know full stop driving uh it's not you know full stop driving is is a is a journey right it's it's is is a is a journey right it's it's is is a is a journey right it's it's it's not like there's a destination it's it's not like there's a destination it's it's not like there's a destination it's a journey forever so let's see where we a journey forever so let's see where we a journey forever so let's see where we are on the journey today and there's are on the journey today and there's are on the journey today and there's been a bit of a push and pull between been a bit of a push and pull between been a bit of a push and pull between you and Elon in terms of levels of you and Elon in terms of levels of you and Elon in terms of levels of optimism about deadlines and so on optimism about deadlines and so on optimism about deadlines and so on timelines about when we'll arrive at the timelines about when we'll arrive at the timelines about when we'll arrive at the destination I like that you said it's a destination I like that you said it's a destination I like that you said it's a journey yeah for Elon there's a journey yeah for Elon there's a journey yeah for Elon there's a destination I exactly and that destination I exactly and that destination I exactly and that destination is destination is destination is tomorrow or yesterday I think that's

tomorrow or yesterday I think that's tomorrow or yesterday I think that's that's that's a really good Insight I I that's that's a really good Insight I I that's that's a really good Insight I I actually live with this concept of a actually live with this concept of a actually live with this concept of a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset growth mindset versus a fixed mindset growth mindset versus a fixed mindset and and it's a I don't know and and it's a I don't know and and it's a I don't know philosophical term where where fixed philosophical term where where fixed philosophical term where where fixed mindset is about the destination and a mindset is about the destination and a mindset is about the destination and a growth mindset is about learning on the growth mindset is about learning on the growth mindset is about learning on the journey journey journey and I think that I'm a happier person and I think that I'm a happier person and I think that I'm a happier person because I take that learning on the because I take that learning on the because I take that learning on the journey journey journey approach whereas it's really frustrating approach whereas it's really frustrating approach whereas it's really frustrating if you're always it has to be about the if you're always it has to be about the if you're always it has to be about the destination every time the nice thing destination every time the nice thing destination every time the nice thing about destination at least from my about destination at least from my about destination at least from my personal perspective as like a personal perspective as like a personal perspective as like a programmer engineer is like it's it puts programmer engineer is like it's it puts programmer engineer is like it's it puts a little fire under you to get shit done a little fire under you to get shit done a little fire under you to get shit done like if there's a clear deadline of a like if there's a clear deadline of a like if there's a clear deadline of a destination you feel the aniet would say destination you feel the aniet would say destination you feel the aniet would say that I still do that but I call those that I still do that but I call those that I still do that but I call those forcing functions instead of forcing functions instead of forcing functions instead of destinations sure because you're just destinations sure because you're just destinations sure because you're just forcing people to crank on on some code forcing people to crank on on some code forcing people to crank on on some code or cookbook or whatever because you have or cookbook or whatever because you have or cookbook or whatever because you have a date and and you really and often a date and and you really and often a date and and you really and often times there's a reason I mean this 20th times there's a reason I mean this 20th times there's a reason I mean this 20th anniversary wanted to get the cookbook anniversary wanted to get the cookbook anniversary wanted to get the cookbook out we have a reason is we didn't make out we have a reason is we didn't make out we have a reason is we didn't make this up out of thin air um and so you this up out of thin air um and so you this up out of thin air um and so you yeah that does push you but just because yeah that does push you but just because yeah that does push you but just because we have the cookbook doesn't mean it's a we have the cookbook doesn't mean it's a we have the cookbook doesn't mean it's a destination M it means it was a forcing destination M it means it was a forcing destination M it means it was a forcing function to get it out there now we're function to get it out there now we're function to get it out there now we're on the journey speaking of Journeys I on the journey speaking of Journeys I on the journey speaking of Journeys I have to ask you about have to ask you about have to ask you about SpaceX uh I mean the journey that all of SpaceX uh I mean the journey that all of SpaceX uh I mean the journey that all of Humanity on seriously that is pokot in a Humanity on seriously that is pokot in a Humanity on seriously that is pokot in a journey that is incredible um it's an journey that is incredible um it's an journey that is incredible um it's an interesting moment in the history of

interesting moment in the history of interesting moment in the history of humanity that perhaps hopefully will humanity that perhaps hopefully will humanity that perhaps hopefully will become a multiplanetary species uh but become a multiplanetary species uh but become a multiplanetary species uh but SpaceX is also a company you invested in SpaceX is also a company you invested in SpaceX is also a company you invested in SpaceX you were side by side with Elon SpaceX you were side by side with Elon SpaceX you were side by side with Elon through through uh through the highs and through through uh through the highs and through through uh through the highs and the lows to the lows and the highs uh so the lows to the lows and the highs uh so the lows to the lows and the highs uh so what were some what were some what were some memorable um challenges what were some memorable um challenges what were some memorable um challenges what were some low points sure I from the history of low points sure I from the history of low points sure I from the history of SpaceX one of SpaceX one of SpaceX one of the hardest times in SpaceX the hardest times in SpaceX the hardest times in SpaceX was uh we were in the mid Pacific in was uh we were in the mid Pacific in was uh we were in the mid Pacific in quasand and my brother had had sold quasand and my brother had had sold quasand and my brother had had sold PayPal he' done well financially but in PayPal he' done well financially but in PayPal he' done well financially but in the rocket world that money goes away the rocket world that money goes away the rocket world that money goes away really quickly and we're in this really quickly and we're in this really quickly and we're in this military base military base military base in in in qualin and uh I think it was the second qualin and uh I think it was the second qualin and uh I think it was the second rocket that blew up I'm not sure rocket that blew up I'm not sure rocket that blew up I'm not sure but uh we didn't have infinite resources but uh we didn't have infinite resources but uh we didn't have infinite resources I certainly didn't have the resources I I certainly didn't have the resources I I certainly didn't have the resources I mean I'm there to support um brotherly mean I'm there to support um brotherly mean I'm there to support um brotherly support but the um the so so every every support but the um the so so every every support but the um the so so every every rocket launch was like to or die and the rocket launch was like to or die and the rocket launch was like to or die and the first one had blown up and so the second first one had blown up and so the second first one had blown up and so the second one I think it was the second one uh one I think it was the second one uh one I think it was the second one uh blew up and it was it was so depressing blew up and it was it was so depressing blew up and it was it was so depressing it was just like H and there's nowhere it was just like H and there's nowhere it was just like H and there's nowhere to go you're in the there's no there's to go you're in the there's no there's to go you're in the there's no there's no distraction you're just you're on no distraction you're just you're on no distraction you're just you're on this military base you don't really this military base you don't really this military base you don't really socialize so it's just we were all socialize so it's just we were all socialize so it's just we were all together and I had uh I'd gotten to know together and I had uh I'd gotten to know together and I had uh I'd gotten to know you know for me I'm not part of the team

you know for me I'm not part of the team you know for me I'm not part of the team I'm just there for emotional support or I'm just there for emotional support or I'm just there for emotional support or whatever because it's cool and so I got whatever because it's cool and so I got whatever because it's cool and so I got to know this a couple of people locally to know this a couple of people locally to know this a couple of people locally and got to know this one guy who who had and got to know this one guy who who had and got to know this one guy who who had a mobile home um best view in the world a mobile home um best view in the world a mobile home um best view in the world but it's just a mobile home next with a but it's just a mobile home next with a but it's just a mobile home next with a patch of grass next to it and uh I was patch of grass next to it and uh I was patch of grass next to it and uh I was just desperate to find food that wasn't just desperate to find food that wasn't just desperate to find food that wasn't from the cafeteria cuz this is the worst from the cafeteria cuz this is the worst from the cafeteria cuz this is the worst food you can imagine yeah and and so he food you can imagine yeah and and so he food you can imagine yeah and and so he showed I met met him and he showed me showed I met met him and he showed me showed I met met him and he showed me this little tiny little grocery store this little tiny little grocery store this little tiny little grocery store which had a few things like canned which had a few things like canned which had a few things like canned tomatoes and not this is again you tomatoes and not this is again you tomatoes and not this is again you middle of nowhere it's just nothing middle of nowhere it's just nothing middle of nowhere it's just nothing fresh and I made this dish that fresh and I made this dish that fresh and I made this dish that was kind of a version of a like an was kind of a version of a like an was kind of a version of a like an Italian version of chili you know just Italian version of chili you know just Italian version of chili you know just baked beans baked beans baked beans and sweating onions and and then and sweating onions and and then and sweating onions and and then tomatoes and it was a big pot of food tomatoes and it was a big pot of food tomatoes and it was a big pot of food cuz it's a group of people we didn't cuz it's a group of people we didn't cuz it's a group of people we didn't even have a table and we just uh put the even have a table and we just uh put the even have a table and we just uh put the big pot in the middle and we had our big pot in the middle and we had our big pot in the middle and we had our little paper plakes and took a scoop as little paper plakes and took a scoop as little paper plakes and took a scoop as we needed it and it was really the we needed it and it was really the we needed it and it was really the Gathering Place of like food brings Gathering Place of like food brings Gathering Place of like food brings people together in the most difficult people together in the most difficult people together in the most difficult times and it was one of my favorite times and it was one of my favorite times and it was one of my favorite memories because I was able to bring my memories because I was able to bring my memories because I was able to bring my gift to this group of incredible gift to this group of incredible gift to this group of incredible people um that their hearts were broken people um that their hearts were broken people um that their hearts were broken you know and to sit there and share a you know and to sit there and share a you know and to sit there and share a meal and feel the life kind of come back meal and feel the life kind of come back meal and feel the life kind of come back into us and by the end of the night into us and by the end of the night into us and by the end of the night we're actually having a good time what a we're actually having a good time what a we're actually having a good time what a fascinating contrast of rock as kind of

fascinating contrast of rock as kind of fascinating contrast of rock as kind of representing the peak accomplishment of representing the peak accomplishment of representing the peak accomplishment of human beings as a society and then human beings as a society and then human beings as a society and then returning to the thing that is the returning to the thing that is the returning to the thing that is the foundation of human society which is foundation of human society which is foundation of human society which is that communal experience communal that communal experience communal that communal experience communal vulnerable connection like we mentioned vulnerable connection like we mentioned vulnerable connection like we mentioned vulnerability earlier the most vulnerability earlier the most vulnerability earlier the most vulnerable place actually that's when vulnerable place actually that's when vulnerable place actually that's when you have some of your most beautiful you have some of your most beautiful you have some of your most beautiful meals yeah the descendants of Apes meals yeah the descendants of Apes meals yeah the descendants of Apes gathering around some baked beans right gathering around some baked beans right gathering around some baked beans right after watching a rocket explode yeah uh after watching a rocket explode yeah uh after watching a rocket explode yeah uh what gives you hope about this the what gives you hope about this the what gives you hope about this the future of this whole thing we got going future of this whole thing we got going future of this whole thing we got going on on on Humanity if you look at how things have Humanity if you look at how things have Humanity if you look at how things have changed over the past say 50 years uh changed over the past say 50 years uh changed over the past say 50 years uh you can clearly say oh wow poverty rates you can clearly say oh wow poverty rates you can clearly say oh wow poverty rates have gone down um infant mortality's have gone down um infant mortality's have gone down um infant mortality's gone down dramatically all these things gone down dramatically all these things gone down dramatically all these things have gone down a lot so so if you if you have gone down a lot so so if you if you have gone down a lot so so if you if you if you look at it on a daily basis you if you look at it on a daily basis you if you look at it on a daily basis you can tell that life is very dramatic you can tell that life is very dramatic you can tell that life is very dramatic you know whether it's uh some some know whether it's uh some some know whether it's uh some some something's blowing up on X or on from something's blowing up on X or on from something's blowing up on X or on from the newspapers or whatever and you can the newspapers or whatever and you can the newspapers or whatever and you can really get caught up into it but if you really get caught up into it but if you really get caught up into it but if you look back over over the past few decades look back over over the past few decades look back over over the past few decades things things are getting better and things things are getting better and things things are getting better and it's and me at the fundamental level it's and me at the fundamental level it's and me at the fundamental level like are less people hungry are more uh like are less people hungry are more uh like are less people hungry are more uh people they are people they are people they are more is there are there I there is war more is there are there I there is war more is there are there I there is war going on of course but are there less going on of course but are there less going on of course but are there less Wars Wars Wars yes um and so I think that um I think if

yes um and so I think that um I think if yes um and so I think that um I think if if we all just step back a little bit if we all just step back a little bit if we all just step back a little bit it's it's less about hope it's more of P it's it's less about hope it's more of P it's it's less about hope it's more of P perspective and perspective and perspective and reflection and um and if if uh reflection and um and if if uh reflection and um and if if uh uh if I if I do see a problem like in uh if I if I do see a problem like in uh if I if I do see a problem like in case of the Obesity epidemic I work case of the Obesity epidemic I work case of the Obesity epidemic I work really hard to help with that I work our really hard to help with that I work our really hard to help with that I work our nonprofits called big Green and we we nonprofits called big Green and we we nonprofits called big Green and we we work with 150 nonprofits around the work with 150 nonprofits around the work with 150 nonprofits around the country to help Americans grow food country to help Americans grow food country to help Americans grow food again get connected to their food again get connected to their food again get connected to their food because I really believe growing food because I really believe growing food because I really believe growing food changes your life and so okay let's changes your life and so okay let's changes your life and so okay let's let's go do that so then so I you know let's go do that so then so I you know let's go do that so then so I you know I'll help out where I think we really do I'll help out where I think we really do I'll help out where I think we really do can make a difference but but if you can make a difference but but if you can make a difference but but if you step back a little things are are step back a little things are are step back a little things are are actually getting better um it's just a actually getting better um it's just a actually getting better um it's just a bumpy bumpy bumpy yeah and for those of us watching all of yeah and for those of us watching all of yeah and for those of us watching all of this I think uh I would love to see more this I think uh I would love to see more this I think uh I would love to see more celebrating of the people that are celebrating of the people that are celebrating of the people that are helping um find the people that have helping um find the people that have helping um find the people that have found their way of helping and just found their way of helping and just found their way of helping and just celebrating those people well I would celebrating those people well I would celebrating those people well I would also actually that's a really nice point also actually that's a really nice point also actually that's a really nice point I have learned that you really want to I have learned that you really want to I have learned that you really want to celebrate your successes because even in celebrate your successes because even in celebrate your successes because even in the greater scheme of things I've the greater scheme of things I've the greater scheme of things I've learned this in the startup world where learned this in the startup world where learned this in the startup world where you you're constantly facing death you you you're constantly facing death you you you're constantly facing death you know like just why should you even exist know like just why should you even exist know like just why should you even exist do customers want your product or do customers want your product or do customers want your product or whatever and and then something will whatever and and then something will whatever and and then something will happen where you're like wow we really happen where you're like wow we really happen where you're like wow we really nailed that that's really great you got nailed that that's really great you got nailed that that's really great you got a product released or got some good a product released or got some good a product released or got some good Kudos from something all right everyone Kudos from something all right everyone Kudos from something all right everyone we're going to go celebrate and and we're going to go celebrate and and we're going to go celebrate and and actually everyone's still like no no we actually everyone's still like no no we actually everyone's still like no no we got all these other problems nope we're got all these other problems nope we're got all these other problems nope we're going to go celebrate and then we'll go

going to go celebrate and then we'll go going to go celebrate and then we'll go back to the problems but if you don't do back to the problems but if you don't do back to the problems but if you don't do that then it starts building on this that then it starts building on this that then it starts building on this kind of you never really get to kind of you never really get to kind of you never really get to celebrate mhm and be grateful well I celebrate mhm and be grateful well I celebrate mhm and be grateful well I think this is a good time to go think this is a good time to go think this is a good time to go celebrate the very fact that we're alive celebrate the very fact that we're alive celebrate the very fact that we're alive today we get to live and enjoy this today we get to live and enjoy this today we get to live and enjoy this incredible life the two of us and have incredible life the two of us and have incredible life the two of us and have this great conversation and we'll get to this great conversation and we'll get to this great conversation and we'll get to celebrate over some scrambled eggs I'm celebrate over some scrambled eggs I'm celebrate over some scrambled eggs I'm going to hold you to it beautiful uh Kim going to hold you to it beautiful uh Kim going to hold you to it beautiful uh Kim thank you so much for talking today thank you so much for talking today thank you so much for talking today thank you for having me thanks for thank you for having me thanks for thank you for having me thanks for listening to this conversation with Kimo listening to this conversation with Kimo listening to this conversation with Kimo musk to support this podcast please musk to support this podcast please musk to support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the check out our sponsors in the check out our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you description and now let me leave you description and now let me leave you some words from Anthony some words from Anthony some words from Anthony Bain your body is not a temple Bain your body is not a temple Bain your body is not a temple it's an amusement park enjoy the it's an amusement park enjoy the it's an amusement park enjoy the ride thank you for listening and hope to ride thank you for listening and hope to ride thank you for listening and hope to see you next